IBM Settles DataStage Patent Infringement Lawsuit

IBM has reached a settlement with Teilhard Technologies for infringing an ETL patent across most of its InfoSphere products.

You can read the origins of this court case in JuxtaComm dreams of $138 billion in lawsuit against ETL vendors. This is an important court case for the hundreds of software companies that sell data integration software in America. If all parties settle in this case or if JuxtaComm win at trial they will be free to send out hundreds if not thousands of letters of demand for royalties and damages from other software companies. Companies like Ab Initio, Pervasive, Expressor, Pentaho, Trillium and Talend who make software that moves and transforms data could all face a demand for money or face losing millions of dollars of legal fees at trial. Companies who have components that move data could also face an infringement claim, companies such as Facebook, LinkedIn and Google.

A system and method is described for importing data from a source computer system, manipulating and transforming of that data, and exporting the data to a target computer system under control of a script processor using stored metadata definitions.

The settlement was for an undisclosed amount, as were all previous settlements in this case, and various commenters on this blog have estimated it to be between $500 million and $5 billion. The settlement came in the final round of mediation between the three parties left in the case just three weeks before the trial was to start and leaves Microsoft as the only defendant left.

This week an attorney for JuxtaComm made several attempts to file a dismissal of IBM from the case:

I can just imagine, with one of the largest patent settlements in Akin Gump history, an attorney rushing to file it with shaking hands – “I can't believe they settled, I wonder what my share of $50 billion dollars will be, I've got to hurry and file this thing, oh shit it didn’t like it, got to try again. Crap, I forgot the certificate! Oh, now my boss is watching me. Got to act casual, would help if my shirt wasn’t drenched in sweat. Under Texas Three Strikes laws if I file it wrong three times in a row we lose all that money, so here goes..."

Why Settle?

Comments left in previous blog posts suggests inside information that the defendants were told bluntly by the judge in the case and by the court appointed mediator that they had little hope of winning at trial and they were better off settling. This is due to the very broad definition of the patent in a Markman Hearing (see Judge Chooses Simplest Claim Construction in a Markman Hearing Shootout) and the heavy burden of proof required to invalidate a patent due to prior art. IBM has assembled an impressive collection of products that existed before the patent was filed and closely resemble the invention:

InfoPump, Data Junction were both similar data integration products that were being sold and used years before the patent was filed. CUBEngine, Lookout, DCLE, Sagent, Prism, Vality (now known as QualityStage and an accused product), IBM Visual Warehouse, DataStage version 0.1, Sybase, SAS, Orchestrate (1995 before it was acquired by Ascential and merged into DataStage), WebSphere Data Power

The problem is that under the patent invention obviousness test the defence needs to prove that someone could look at these items of prior art and use them to come up with the invention described in the patent. A patent is deemed valid in court unless the defence produces clear and convincing evidence that it is invalid. In the case of Uniloc versus Microsoft there was a lot of evidence of prior art but during the JMOL hearing the judge decided:

While not far from hitting the mark, Microsoft cannot satisfy the “exacting” JMOL standard on obviousness given its high burden.

IBM may have reached the same conclusion about this case – while they are close to proving obviousness the chances of missing it are too great and a settlement brokered now is cheaper than damages decided by a jury at trial.

The Fight Continues

Microsoft may feel cocky about their chances given success in Uniloc versus Microsoft win where Uniloc won a large settlement at trial and Microsoft had it vacated during the Judgement as a Matter of Law (JMOL) hearing later on. With no JuxtaComm Microsoft settlement in sight the parties are going to fight it out in Texas in three weeks. The trial will take 1-2 weeks. A couple weeks after that will be the JMOL hearing. It’s likely that Microsoft will lose at trial and have their best shot at winning at the JMOL hearing where a judge can consider all the evidence from the trial to decide on the validity of the patent.

According to the judge in the Uniloc v Microsoft case:

Post-trial, JMOL is called for under Fed. R. Civ. P. 50(b) when the facts and inferences are one-sided and “point so strongly and overwhelmingly in favor of the movant that a reasonable jury could not have returned the verdict.”

Settlement scorecard (the vendors who have settled or partially settled this case):

Defendant

Size

Infringement

Settlement

Information Builders

Medium

Major

Completed

Fiorano

Small

Minor

Completed

Open Text

Large

Minor

Completed

CA Inc

Massive

Tiny

Completed

Intersystems

Medium

Minor

Completed

Metastorm

Small

Minor

Completed

Sybase

Large

Medium

Completed

Microsoft

Massive

Significant

Fighting on

Informatica

Large

Significant

Completed

Business Objects (SAP)

Massive

Significant

Completed

Software AG

Medium

Medium

Completed

IBM

Massive

Massive

In Progress

The vendors settled in order of size, the smallest vendors or vendors with the smallest infringement bailed out early in the case. The largest infringers of the patent made up the final three settlements with Informatica, Business Objects and finally IBM settling in the last month. No one has spilled the beans on the size of settlements and vendors such as MetaStorm and Informatica have publicly stated that their profits are higher than expected in the financial quarters following the settlement.

This is what Informatica said before the settlement:

On August 21, 2007, Juxtacomm Technologies (“Juxtacomm”) filed a complaint in the Eastern District of Texas against 21 defendants, including us, alleging patent infringement and seeking damages and an injunction. We filed an answer to the complaint on October 10, 2007. It is Informatica’s current assessment that our products do not infringe Juxtacomm’s patent and that potentially the patent itself is invalid due to significant prior art. However, given the potential trial and related costs and the uncertainties related to litigation, Informatica is participating in mediation discussions with the plaintiff. The trial date is currently set for the fourth quarter of 2009.

We have made a lot of progress there and I think we're getting close to getting that result. I would expect that the litigation cost that we've been expanding in the G&A line for the last two or three quarters, I think that will diminish meaningfully in Q3, and I would hope that we could resolved with nominal impact if any on the P&L.

Informatica are due to release another quarterly result soon and there should be a statement in there about the settlement.

317 Comments

Vince,
As you mention in the Uniloc vs MS case, IBM concluded that they,too, did not have a case for prior art as it does not exist unless you wish to call an apple an orange simply because they are both fruit. The settlement with a broker has, at least, saved them the cost of a trial. I doubt much more of a saving was realized as AG pretty much walked them by the scruff of the neck to the court house steps. Also, I can't tell you how happy I was to hear you say that MS is going to fight it out in Texas in three weeks. That's almost an assurance that it will never see the light of a courtroom. I'm sure you are a success in your field of expertise, but if I were you I would stay away from Vegas; an odds maker you ain't!

It's In Progress Jim because the judge hasn't dismissed them yet. Should be done by the end of the week. I don't mind that they settled - they rake in a few billion dollars a year in cash and they just bumped up the price of software by 3% in Australia despite the rising Australian dollar. I shed no tears for money lost by IBM, Microsoft or SAP but it would be a shame to see smaller data integratoin software companies face a high damages claim or legal bills. I'm rooting for a cancellation of the patent by the PTO next year - you'll still get your settlement money!

Vincent,
Your astute observations were much more readable this time including the fun comments about the lawyer. You might not want to be the one talking about errors though given your track record from the beginning (the lawsuit is a joke) to now (everyone is settled out and M/S will lose at trial) I'd say you have become much more accurate even with your tongue in cheek comment about 50 billion. Thats the frustrating thing about this blog though, goofballs like Sam008 and LL post ridiculous amounts then act offended and indignant when someone posts the billion dollar numbers. You can be absolutely certain that this last settlement is in the billions of dollars. Why do you think M/S is so slow to settle, this opens up a can of worms given there hundreds of lawsuits waiting in the wings where the little guys cannot afford an A/G, but with these kids if settlements the lawyers will want to do the work on a contingency fee basis.
Jim, nice to have you back in the boat.

This is from a status conference held on the 13th of October, turns out JuxtaConmm didn't want another round of mediation! It was IBM who suggested it would be helpful so they had decided to settle at least as far back as the 13th. Microsoft held a separate mediation on the 19th and 20th but gave no indication that they wanted it:

Court addressed parties regarding the Court’s November Docket in Marshall. Court inquired how many parties are left in this case. Mr. Macon {JuxtaComm} responded and indicated that Microsoft, IBM & Ascencial are the remaining defendants.
Court addressed the parties regarding mediation and inquired on the parties’ desire to go back to mediation. Mr. Healey {Microsoft} responded. Mr. Zager {JuxtaComm} responded and indicated parties have been to two mediations and there is no purpose in mediating a third time. Mr. Demarais {IBM} responded and it would be helpful. Mr. Healy further responded.
Court addressed the parties regarding a change in mediators, and this in no way reflects on Jim Knowles, but Court suggested Judge Faulkner. Mr. Demarias suggested Layne Phillips. Mr. Healy responded and suggested early next week for mediation and for Microsoft and Plaintiff to mediate on the 19th or 20th and IBM have their own mediation.
Court will appoint Judge Faulkner and will allow him to schedule the sessions he deems appropriate and asked the parties to ask Judge Faulkner to keep the Court up to date.

So if MS were on Monday and Tuesday, how did IBM settle at the same time. If anyone knows - and I bet ALL are trying to find out details, is there mediation ongoing now??? Hopefully we see the end today or tomorrow. Yikes
Rod

Mr. Healy(Microsoft) responded and suggested early next week for mediation and for Microsoft and Plaintiff to mediate on the 19th or 20th and IBM have their own mediation.

So either Microsoft has a plan of action on settling and wanted to do it in private without IBM around or they knew IBM was going to settle and didn't want to bother being there...hmm....guess which one I bet on?

Microsoft mediated a settlement on the 19th and 20th in private with Juxtacom...we will hear about it in the next week or so...betcha!!

Seems strange that IBM would be eager to sttle and not Microsoft. Put me down on the side of the guys who say microsoft will settle shortly. They can't risk a jury award as they don't control that. Course they could technically settle while the jury is out too so it may not necessarily be today!

Larry Ellis of Orecale must be having a hard time sleeping because he can't stop laughing about the deal he had already made with Mr. Prather and his wise lawter that works with him. YAH the one that was involved with the Nevada Bob's Fiasco. They should all be prowd !

Larry Ellis of Orecale must be having a hard time sleeping because he can't stop laughing about the deal he had already made with Mr. Prather and his wise lawter that works with him. YAH the one that was involved with the Nevada Bob's Fiasco. They should all be prowd !

randb
If it was not for the deal that KP & RS made with Oracle we would not be where we are today. We were a little company with no money being sued by Oracle who could have crushed us if was not for the deal that we made with them. Just count your lucky stars that we have KP & RS working on our behalf.

OH, and don't forget us shareholders, large and small who kept supporting the company. Yes, I applaud the management's relentless efforts but KP & associates could do very little without constant funding !

Regardless of the outcome I think this lawsuit still is a joke and it shows the patent system to be a joke. I don't care about IBM losing money but I do care that a patent could be filed with such a broad definition. It does make a mockery of the patent system. There were many of us coding and carrying out activities as described under this patent many years before the patent was filed - If I was more angry about this I would suggest the work of the true pioneers of this sort of application has been taken, perhaps exploited could be a good word and wrapped up in this patent rather than it being an invention attributed to the filers of the patent. It would be interesting to see this patent filed as an academic paper to read the bibliography referencing all the prior effort. In the data industry this is much the same as someone patenting the human ability to exchange information using sounds formed into reusable patterns to which meaning could be attached. Anyway I hope these people have the shame to be satisfied with the money they are getting from these big players and not go after the smaller innovators in this industry as I believe it will start do do real harm should they go further.

The Informatica quarterly earnings report has a "Patent contingency accrual reversal" of ($1,170,000). No sign of the settlement (which should be much bigger than that). I'm not sure what that accrual reversal means. Earnings transcript not out yet.

Does the patent office really understand what their issuing? good question. Vincent asked why they use jury's for these types of cases... as if anyone but an expert (from the industry) knows what the "H" is being presented

The reality is software computers etc. long since left a couple guys in a garage working on something cool.

It's Big Big business now.

It should comfort you to know that a few guys in a garage can come up with something and patent it and not be steam rolled by the industry.

I happened to catch a documentary on Bill gates on sunday of this week. (it looked authorized by the participants) I have a lot of respect for him, what he has accomplished, and his charitable work.

I do not feel any concern for his company they have been ruthless from day one... it's the game they're in and they know it.

peter,
If what you say is true (you were writing this code for AGES before the patent came to be), then YOU are directly responsible for the 11 companies settling. With your information, you could have gone to the lawyers and stopped all this. YOUR inaction caused all the huge payouts. YOU should have written the patent for ETL. If I were you, I would be ashamed of my poor performance in this matter, and not be spouting off in public. Shame.

I'll be more than happy to buy your shares for a buck / pcs. But mine are for sale (100k shares) @ $5. I'll hold the remaining for the MSFT settlement.

Lots of talk here of Billions. Lets not make lame excuses of getting screwed over, all will be done with your lawyer of choice. Put up 10% of the loot to hold, the remainder will be payable (which is held in trust with your lawyer) until you receive the certs from O&Y. A good lawyer can get this done by next Wed.

This is no joke.

$5 Billions +++ with 110 mil shares outsanding, makes this a no brainer.

Peter: Survival of the fittest!!! It is true in every aspect of our entire civilazation. Can you homestly sit on your chair and tell me that IBM (or MS, or Ford, or the Liberals) never got to the top of their game by screwing somebody, somewhere along the way?? Hell, even George Bush got to be president in a not so clear and clean way.

Could this patent be a joke??? maybe!! However, we got the patent and they are all falling. What that's that tell ya?

As I sit typing here, I'm worried about just how much I as a shareholder can get screwed by our fearless (some say) TH management and what I can do to screw them back. It's a dog eat dog world out there I tell ya.

A friend of mine told me about a saying that chilean pleople have: "the chickens on the top always shit on the chickens on the bottom". It couldn't be more true in the business world.

IBM filed more patents in 2008 than any other company - 4186 patents, however IBM almost never sues anyone for patent infringement. IBM win business due to their size and marketing channels so they don't need the protection of a patent monopoly. Their patents protect them from being sued down the track.

Peter, the patent is as valid as any other patent until proven otherwise in court. The only reason these companies were sued is that they would not come to an agreement earlier. Considerable money, time and effort could have been avoided had they not "blown off" a legitimate patent holder.

Vincent. You say that IBM only files patents to protect themselves against future suits. But isn't that exactly what Teilhard did. And are you suggesting that IBM never sues for infringement? That all of their patents are valid and there is no prior art? IBM and the others took a very similar product to market and thought that a little company with a good idea, and a patent, would just go away.
It is certain that A/G would never have taken this suit unless they believed they could win. That the attorneys for IBM, Microsoft, and the others did not figure that out and settle up front only shows their arrogance or stupidity.
It is seldom that the David of today can beat the Goliath, but in this case it happened. Stop crying. Your side lost and several judges with more knowledge than you figured they deserved to. Time to move on.
And for those on the winning side, stop gloating. It serves no purpose.

From my understanding. WHat has probably happened is Microsoft wants to settle and both have agreed to push back the court date to get it worked out. They are probably close but need a bit mroe time before mediation is 100% closed to get ready for trial.

We have a settlement - The judge has to believe and be convinced that both sides are in agreement with some sort of settlement that will be executed in order to stay the proceedings and vacate trial date. Plaintiff and Defendant would not file this joint motion if there was a chance someone would "change" their mind(s).

Oct 23, 2009

You guys need to quit hyperventilating. The plaintiff and remaining defendent have been in mediation for some time, this probably has been the state of affairs while the trial date has been approaching. It is possible the parties believe that with a settlement likely, the trial date may be put off as they will succeed in resolving the remaining issues that are keeping them apart.This particular Judge in Texas, while no "rocket docket", would not continue the trial unless both sides expressed a belief to him that they were near a resolution. My biggest concern now is how transparent Teilhard will be in informing its starving shareholders when they may expect a return on all their money and PATIENCE. The later is rapidly wearing thin!

Pity, I was looking forward to a trial. I'd say Microsoft is about to settle. I can't access Pacer this morning, it's timing out, but once you vacate a trial date it could be months or years before you get another one!

I think the fact that this announcement was made later on Friday is indicative of MS not wanting their share prices to be influenced. So I'm guessing buyout/takeout. Bill G is predatory enough to want this as his baby to control even more of the market. And if you stay proceedings - then that's it - it's over. IMHO
RMB

MS might want to structure a deal that involves some money up front and then a combination of shares and money over a period of some years to not impact their financials???? Where the heck is some sound rationale??? Or rumour et al. If the USPTO thingy is off the table then we are definitely sitting pretty. I think it maybe moot as it looks like it will never get to that as they will settle very soon.
RMB

I'm not calling it game over just yet because there is no dismissal filing and no mediation report. It's likely they are staying proceedings because Microsoft are settling but it's also possible they are vacating the trial because Microsoft are the only defendant left in the case and they have a new strategy. For example Microsoft was the one who asked for the patent reexamination. They may have made a deal with Teilhard - let's forget the court case and let the PTO decide the outcome.

As soon as I see a Microsoft dismissal I'll blog that Teilhard have won but for the moment I'm on hold.

I don't know Vincent. It is not in Juxtacomm's best interest to dismiss the trial. I believe you said yourself that the PTO would likely not make a finding different than what the judge and jury finds, and the plaintiff would almost definitely win in court.

Furthermore, it doesn't seem to be in MS's best interest to vacate the trial date either if they are not settling. The trial and then a patent review are a sort of double jepardy for MS. If they win in court, it's done; if they lose in court, then it could all still be overturned by the patent review. Plus if they lost in court, MS could still appeal, which they can't do if the PTO decides the outcome. If they were going to fight, then court makes the most sense.

Vincent, most likely RMB is correct. No one, including Judge Davis would agree to stay and vacation of the trial date at this late stage unless parties are agreed to a settlement. Likely that this was done to give parties opportunity to write the agreement and pay funds, and avoid those things that would otherwise have to be done in preparation for trial, including jury selection. Without stay and vacation, Court would have to continue and keep the court time and staff availability blocked out.

Quoting your recent comment of "Looks like Microsoft is still aiming for the courtroom".
You can antagonise us all you want to attract more views on this blog but lets face it, it's time to surrender and go back to feeding the dolphins.

LL: We are ready for your negative comments and a laugh !

No hard feelings Vince and LL and now back to the main event.

Oct 24, 2009

MS has 30 Billion (note the capital B) in surplus cash, leaving its initial exposure of two to three hundred million roughly a pitence. If you were MS wouldn't you love to own Juxta will all the deals they have worked out with the other defendents?

If money is on the way, how much are we estimating is going to make it to shareholders?? Is management going to use their ~15% bonus package in order to purchase their 20% of stock options?? Any thoughts?

Please, lets not start the compensation debate again and enjoy the moment. I for one will be quite happy to receive whatever after 10 years considering we participated very little aside from years of frustration and waiting.

Brighter...lol...it is halogen my good sir! We are at the end of the rainbow and the pot of gold is just waiting to be picked up...then we weigh and count...pay the travellers that got us to the end and walk away very wealthy men...and ladies:)

So where to next for Teilhard Technologies? Assuming they receive the millions/hundreds of millions/billions in settlement dough and divy it out where do they go next? Do they sell the patent or do they keep processing and fighing new infringement claims for years to come? It could take a long time getting money out of the hundreds of other vendors with infringing software.

I will take a stab at what I think could very well be happening, now that there will be NO trial. Let's take a look at the series of events that are very telling. Let's separate out IBM and Microsoft.

1. IBM. Judge Davis appoints a retired judge as new mediator. This key step moved IBM to settle rather quickly- why? At this stage there are representatives from both companies with the ability to approve settlements. As opposed to Mediator Knowles stage, this stage is far more of a "do or die" stage. No stalling and the retired judge brings in a new perspective and cuts to the chase. He would most likely speak directly at the execs, with a lawyer or two present taking notes, and probably quiet for once. All discussions are off the record and confidential. This phase is designed to bring outcomes, and not continuances. Look at the result.

2. Microsoft. I can only go by the PACER filing, but there is a great deal to glean from it. Let's look at the wording. Key words: SEALED, JOINT MOTION, STAY ALL PROCEEDINGS and VACATE TRIAL DATE. Guesses...here's mine, now that there will be no trial:

The .44 Magnum pointed at MSFT was the trial date. If A-G has put that away in its holster, they would have agreed to what is on the table. So what is on the table? My guess...again, we all have our own opinion and this one is mine, is that there is probably two possibilities, and I'll call them A & B. Possibility A could be MSFT offering to make an asset purchase (company, patent only, whatever). Possibility B would then be the default if A didn't occur. It works like, we'll buy "X" for a predetermined sum, and if we decide against it, then we'll pay a settlement amount for "y". Either way, A-G has made sure of a certain amount before putting the gun away.

Why do I guess this way? Because the motion is SEALED and MSFT is a publicly traded company and cannot have any leaks of any kind or it is insider trading. The motion also STAYS ALL PROCEEDINGS which means even the new Mediator is cut out of the picture- it is now just companies and companies and their attorneys. The motion most likely asks Judge Davis for a specific length of time (30-45 days?) to do due diligence on Teilhard as the Agreement in Principle has been signed. If/when Judge Davis signs the motion there is no coming back to trial- his docket is probably filled for the next year or longer. I feel there must be a solid agreement in place or A-G would not request to VACATE TRIAL. Again, the gun is gone, so a purchase "A" or settlement "B", with the settlement already agreed to in order to VACATE. Also, Judge Davis would not sign a motion to VACATE TRIAL DATE (and remember that it has not been signed by Judge Davis yet) unless it was solid, with an agreement in principle in place. Since it is SEALED, we'll never know.

These are my opinions, and I will have to wait and see which, "A" or "B", possibly occurs.

Actually IBM asked for a specific mediator - probably one they had used in other cases at the settlement stage. They knew they were going to settle for some weeks now and possibly for some months.

I like the Microsoft buying the patent rumour, they are the last defendant in the case so this makes it much easier for them to buy the patent.

I'm going to throw a new rumour into the mill. Teilhard Technologies has TWO patents, not one. In Q3 Informatica settled with Teilhard and another thing that turned up in the earnings statement is that they spent $2.4 million buying a patent. I cannot find any news stories about Informatica buying a patent - just the line in the earnings report. Maybe Teilhard is leaving the patent business, selling the lucrative patent to Microsoft and selling the EAI patent to Informatica.

Before this all comes to an end soon, I want to thank you for keeping this blog going. We may not agree, but it was like a good sporting match, only you were on the Washington Generals and we were the Harlem Globetrotters. Like slobbering drunkards in the bar near closing time, there sure were some hilarious lines, ridiculous predictions and outrageous assumptions....interspersed with worthwhile facts at times. I hope this site has been a worthwhile venture for you, for in the end it has always been about winning. You scoring on viewership, and us little folk scoring on an investment that few in this world can experience right now.

I would assume they would need shareholder approval to sell the company or the patent, having said that, the management and board of directors are shareholders and the majority of shareholders at that.

Here's a question to Steehard or anyone with a brain - not me for sure - if all the proceedings are 'stayed' - does that include the USPTO request??? I too appreciate the steelmans inputs. Not that i haven't caused some grief along the way.
RMB

IMHO, MS should require 30/45 days for due diligence. Hell, they should know us inside and out by now according to Pacer. I would bet AG fast tracking this "deal" to secure their year end bonus considering 2009 has not been a banner year for most people.

We should all be greatly relieved for not having to endure a full blown trial with any defendant. Court stats shows almost 97% of all patent litigation cases DO NOT go to trial. I am happy to report we accomplished 100% with a "clean sweep".

Bobbie Galore, Bobbie Benz, myself and our other shareholders aren't celebrating until we know how much and when. There is lots of work still to be done before this all wraps up. What if the whole exercise was only for a bobbie and change? Benz and Galore will be able to buy a few new outfits to toss, but it won't put the Benz's in the garage.

Oct 25, 2009

I believe the time is not with the patent but with Purus. Yes they know the patent inside and out, but as Steely said they are seeing if Purus is worth the purchase of the whole company. This is an easier pill to swallow for MS shareholders. We just acquired some cutting edge software and the patent for xxx rather than we just had to payout xxx for patent litigation.

We still have to hold our breaths for money. Remember this is a negotiation, we took some risk off the table to avoid a trial thus we also took some money off the table as well.

You may find CC that Purus and/or the patent are already gone. Sold previously can you say BO/SAP? Scooped up faster than Bobbie Galore working the lap dances in T.O. Or so she says. She also adds that they (one or the other or both) are long gone like her old pair of see through platforms. Can MS dance with only one shoe on?

On behalf of the Board of Directors and Management of Shopplex.com Corporation will be providing an update of the Corporations activities, which will be posted on the Shareholders Website, by the second week of November 2009.

Gone, gone, one of them. Bobbie Galore is always right. Mind you it is hard to say to her that she is wrong when the clothes are off. BING has absolutely nothing in common with Purus from an application standpoint. They are totally different. Benz backed that up by comparing Bing and Purus to her Pole work versus her Floor routine. Would be nice to think they left something as a teaser to help the last fight.But, alas, Bobbie G is pretty sure she heard the one fella' she was giving the grind to that a big deal had been already done with BO/SAP for something more than a settlement.

Correct me if I'm wrong - but are some of you saying that BO/SAP have already bought our little patent company already. And they bought a pole dancer as well ??? What's her name and will she travel????
RMB
I wonder what the second week of November will bring - luckily I remembered my pw etc to get in and have a look for myself. Yikes

FYI - everyone on this blog has complained about why information was not given out to the shareholders. The fact that you go into the password protected area of the website and cut-and-paste a post meant "for investors only" is proof that you are an idiot and not capable of keeping any information away from prying eyes and ears. Thanks for proving management's actions correct.

In all the excitement of our pending "cash fall" and what we are all going to be able to do with "our take," may I offer another thought that I have never read on these blogs.

Let's consider how we can "do good things" for those who are less fortunate then us, people who are struggling even to survive.

I met a Calgarian (home of Teilhard) a while back who started an organization to help "widows and orphans" survive in third world countries. They're going to get some of my money, I'll get a tax write off, and I'll feel good about doing something good. This looks like it is going to be real good for us, I encourage you to consider how you can "do some good with your take."

I don't mind plugging this organization, they "get it." Check them out at www.fathersheartprojects.org. This is just one organization that is doing good things. There are so many great places to send a gift to, take a look around. Like Nike says, "Just do it." You'll feel real good about it, and everyone wins.

"I am looking forward to ANY news this week. It has been a long time coming."

Idiot, I am not, Courteous, I AM !

Only shareholder should have the user name and password to view announcements. I am only advising all shareholders of pending news with nothing to disclose.

Don't concern yourself with my ability for disclosure, just refer to my previous postings and you will know which side I am on ! Notice I did not copy and paste complete announcement to protect management names.

By mid November we will be rich?? or we will hear what is going on and start getting ready for the moolah? Who believes that MS is buying us? Who believes they are simply settling? Who believes they are just buying the patent?
Who believe we will all meet in Mexico with name tags for a huge celebration before or after Christmas??

I can't believe (well I guess I can) that someone would cut and paste the announcement on the Teilhard password protected investor site. That is absolutely why they are hesitate to give us information! All that was necessary was to say that info was available for shareholders on the site....let's use some discretion.

Come on Pete ... even you can't be that gullible. How did you get your password? I got mine by phoning the office and telling them that I was a shareholder. Do you really think the defendants in a billion dollar law suit would be unable to procure a password if they put their minds to it? DO you think they may even have purchased a few shopplex shares to stay up to speed on what goes on in Teilhard land? Some of us are privy to information that shouldn't be made public ... but the "password protected investor site" hardly qualifies. If you want to keep covering for management's lack of communication go ahead ... but at least try to make an intelligent argument.

Congradulations to all! Investors large and investors small, nonetheless, winners all! Enjoy the relief that comes with realizing the impossible dream. Once the dotted line is signed and all the "T"s are crossed( a formality now) we can forget about "gag" orders and bring everything home into our own back yard. I can hardly wait for TH to call a meeting and let it all out of the bag. The secrets of months of closed door meetings can now be revealed to us all and each of us will have a 100% understanding of what has transpired, what has been accomplished, and where we stand as loyal and PATIENT shareholders. All speculation will be resolved and brought forward as matters of fact in the very near future; and, although we had our differences in opinion throughout this ordeal, I am so very happy to see you all ( and myself included) succeed in our endevors.
Congradulations once again. I can't wait to see Ken Prathers face as he walks into our gathering, smiling ear to ear with all the wonderful news we've waited so long to hear.

Wow....I cant believe all the congrats etc etc...I guess I am just still a little unwilling to let myself believe it is actually over? After 10 yrs I feel like if I give in I will jinx it. I understand the Pacer filings from Friday ( with the help of Steelhard to decifer ) but without a signature from the judge, and the good word from TH, not to mention a big fat cheque in the bank, I hesitate to allow myself to breathe a sigh of relief. My wife is asking me, " is it over?" and I reply, " well maybe, I guess, I dont know...you know how the past bunch of years has been"

Anyway, hopefully this week will bring a signature from the judge to finalize this round. Now that we are at this place, does anyone with some smarts ( read: Steelhard ) want to speculate on a payout per share? Maybe a low end and a top end? Would 2bn from IBM et al and another 4bn in a MSFT buyout be in line? That would be approx $30 per share in the end, would it not? Is that even reasonable?

I can live with those numbers just fine. Party next summer at gals - menu will be updated later.But off the top of my little noodle brain head.....Lobster and Black Angus steaks come to mind, and me moms famous potato salad. Fresh Apple/Cherry/Blueberry pies.
RMB

My opinion is that they have sooooo many shares and AG/Olympia trust and the law in Alberta will mean they take the same amount as we will all get, and be very happy, just like we will be. And I truely believe they would never think about shafting us. They are honourable men. 27-32 per share and I would be very happy...............
RMB

IMHO the company visuals so far seem above board. The final agreements are being drawn up and signed by the judge. Teilhard tells shareholders to expect an announcement in a couple of weeks. What nefarious activities should we be on the lookout for?

I'm sure the majority of shareholders will revolt if things are not done in a equitable manner, but so far things seem alright. I don't know the management from Adam.

I honestly believe that dishonest people see dishonesty everywhere. Teilhard has brought us exactly where they said they would...timing in lawsuits is NEVER an exact science...the people that were trying to screw over the shareholders were FIRED many years ago and we have been fighting to make us all a lot of money ever since. AG, McCarthy Tetrault(sp?)and Olympia Trust are not small time and will make sure that all goes well, fair and legally. Those that are greedy are those trying to stir the pot which will only serve to hold up everything...hmmm...wonder who would want to do that? Perhaps those that were FIRED or have an axe to grind because they didn't get their way?
It is almost over and all the shareholders as well and the team that got us here will be wealthy...relax and enjoy.

Vincent:
It would be great if you could attend the big party TH throws - then Steely and I could crack a tinnie with you in person. I second Steely - congratulations - and thanks, Vincent, for the memories.

ORDER GRANTING MOTION TO STAY ALL PROCEEDINGS
AND VACATE TRIAL DATE
The Court, having considered the Joint Motion to Stay All Proceedings and Vacate Trial
Date filed by Plaintiff JuxtaComm Technologies, Inc. (“JuxtaComm”) and Defendant Microsoft
Corporation (“Microsoft”), is of the opinion that the motion should be GRANTED. It is
therefore ORDERED that all proceedings are HEREBY STAYED. All case deadlines, including
without limitation the dates set forth in the Docket Control Order (Docket No. 174), the dates for
all pre-trial filings and exchanges after October 20, 2009, the pretrial conference currently
scheduled for October 29, 2009, the jury selection currently scheduled for November 3, 2009,
and the jury trial currently scheduled to begin on November 9, 2009 are HEREBY VACATED.

Yes, the case has been vacated. Still no word on what arrangement Microsoft and Teilhard came to. The settlement money can start to be transferred now that it wont come up in a trial as evidence to be used to manipulate the jury.

what about a minor disbursement to shareholders say like $2.00 so everyone at least has there $$ back before year end. Then there would be more peace at the AGM, as we all have our investment back and are riding for free. That means minimal tax in 2009 and anything recieved in 2010 isn't taxed (theoretically) till April 2011 and management and the board have the $2.00 per share (like us) which gives them the $$ to buy their options. And everyone is happy!

If we break double digits we should be happy. Too many possibilities at this point in time to say for sure. I hope that this is not the case as I was hoping for 45-65 dollars like everyone else. Let's just hope that in 2 weeks all our prayers are answered!

Don't know amounts but very happy to ME would be over 35 per share - maybe combination of shares and moolah. Sorry wish I knew more. But to use the words 'very happy' implies nice substantial scratch, not piddly 10-12. Plus with the admonishment of not telling when I or anyone knows for sure, I won't say more even when I do find out. Yikes - YOU will be very happy. Gal will be happy too.....
RMB

I believe (a little birdy?)that the Microsoft settlement was the biggest in AG's history and their biggest previous settlemnent was about 2.5B.

Oct 27, 2009

"Money makes people do funny things" We have quietly watched and read the postings on this excellant blog for a long time. However, it would serve best to be a bit more pessimistic, or better yet, more realistic. Until we are all able to become informed on how the various settlements have been structured,( what the present valuation of our company is) after these amounts have been incorporated into the financials, will we know where we actually stand. While stating the obvious (at least to most), the company cannot consent to a sale without shareholder notice and majority vote. Further, the corporate Bylaws would invite a shareholder derivative suit (an action by minority shareholders)if the most valuable asset of the corporation were sold (the patents) without involving all shareholders at some point.
Until we hear from the directors as to how this case has impacted the company's financials, we must assume they have acted intelligently and honorably.

Can someone explain how exactly we will receive payment? Lump sum? Chq? How do dividends work, esp. if there is more companies lined up for patent infringement? With an increase in share value will you have to sell all shares to receive payment at that price?

Until i hear otherwise, my expectation is what was promise those many years ago. $35-70/share. This lawsuit started life at $138 billion. 5-10% outcome will be fine. Show me the money from this action and what plans are expected in the future. That's it.

The unofficial word not too long ago was $50.00 per...likely more. I see no reason to expect anything less at this point. In fact....considering such things as pacer doc's (which Vincent himself pointed out) that indicate TH were going after Microsoft for everything under the sun in terms of infringement, it's hard to imagine that we'd suddenly roll over and accept a small settlement...If IBM and microsoft were unwilling to pay signigicant amounts, we likely would have used the trump card of a trial.

Jim...I also look forward to this meeting...when & where? Do you know something we don't?

It is unreasonable and ludicrous to believe for 1 second that these companies would roll over and pay out those types of dollars. they cringe at $300 million (i4i)and would certainly not say "of course we'll give you a few billion"!!! Come on guys. Unless you paid $10 a share (which I doubt) the maximum you paid is $2/share and anything over $10 return is probably one of the best investments you've ever had. I for one do not want this blog to turn into a witch hunt or a "i'll be pissed off if they don't give me what they told me" crap. Are you kidding me? If you were hoping to be a millionaire on a 5000 investment, you should have bought BRE-x. This investment is not a gold mine in the Amazon, it played out in front of our eyes on the Pacer site. No one, including management and the lawyers, would have a firm idea of how this was going to play out in the end. They hoped, they wished, but that's it.

We need to wait a little over 2 weeks and all of the information we have craved for "x" years will be fulfilled...finally. It was successful and we will see a return on investment..period.

Numbers, what makes you think that the November announcement is going to include payment amounts? More like all of these have been settled, amounts coming in the future. So and so bought PURUS as part of the deal. Company will be sold to so and so. Need to vote on that so AGM moved to xx/xx/2010. At the AGM your per share value is $xx.xx (note the double digits), it will be paid on the xx/03/2010. dd/mm/yyyy.
My two bucks,

Forgot to add, if they really had cojones they would announce a con-call so everyone could listen in, and they could field questions. Wouldn't that be nice?

Oct 27, 2009

I invested in this as a pure investor not to make friends. I was told x amount of return for x amount of time. Understandable business plans do not always go as smoothly as planned. Yes huge kudos to management but to pile all the praise on management is a little miss guided. The people we should be kissing up to and thanking them for saving our asses is AG.

Remember, one PLEC company canned us and AG came calling not the other way around. Since then management has been mainly in the passengers seat.

For the last ten years we have been paying management salaries and in the last couple of years that has been one of a fortune 500 company not a startup software company. Not to mention the way to generous stock option plan. When I invested in 2005 at $1 only 70M share existed now at 109M we should show $40M in revenue it is not on the books.

I am not saying anything illegal was done but with this amount of money I think a forensic audit is still needed. And I hope management appreciated all the hard work and sacrifices many people did raising money for them and greed does not blind them.

114552...certainly it is not 'unreasonable' or 'ludicrous' for shareholders to expect settlement amounts to be in the ballpark of estimated figures used by mgmt....figures that initially were used to entice us into buying shares.
Undoubtedly, as things unfold, outlooks and actualities can and likely will change, however, it was mere months ago that "$50.00 plus" was spoken about as an estimate. One would think (and hope!) that final payouts to shareholders would be in the general vicinity of the amount that has consistently been quoted to us throughout the years.
Just kind of curious as to why you seem to expect a much lesser amount than what was originally talked about...?..and why you'd be content to receive such a drastically smaller amount..?

I have to agree with 114552. There will likely be a significant gap between the perceived possibilities we all began with and the final outcome we have now reached.
I've learned through my years that if it sounds too good to be true it probably is. This is not to say it is not good, just not TOO good.
We have been subjected to an over zealous sales pitch and years of speculation fraught with emotion. Add to that the fact that any information having anything at all to do with this company has been covered in a veil of secrecy and we are left here still; in the dark and wondering.
I say there will be an announcement of a meeting shortly because there is no reason to delay any longer. MSFT and Th will sign off before the trial date, I'm sure, and that will clear the path so that a meeting can take place and all concerns can be openly discussed. And there is much to discuss.

And moolah to distribute, Mr Iron - keeping my fingers crossed. As many have said, from the cynics to the over the top optimists - where else could you invest around a buck or less and get this in return; albeit with less hair to comb..........

My first posting as a small $ investor sitting in the background patiently for the last 5 years. Jim adds a a bit of common sense here but so much of what is written is not. If CommonCents is right with his report of 109M shares, you need $1 billion in settlement for every $10 return AFTER all legal and other fees are disbursed. It doesn't make sense and, to quote Judge Judy, "If it doesn't make sense, it isn't true."

As for those of you that believed the "promised" high rates of return, I have a bridge in Calgary I'd like to sell you. I was "promised" high rates of return on my mutual funds investment as well. After losing 50% of it, I dumped the balance in here. I knew it couldn't be any worse.

ORDER granting 779 Motion to Dismiss. All claims, counterclaims or causes of action asserted in this suit between JuxtaComm and IBM are hereby dismissed with prejudice. All costs, expenses and attys fees are to be borne by the party that incurred them. Signed by Judge Leonard Davis on 10/26/09. cc:attys 10-26-09(mll, ) (Entered: 10/26/2009)

Yes, CuriousPete, I also copy and paste this filing from a password protected website.

COuld IBM be on the hook for a couple billion which would lower there stock price, so to held out management will repurchase shares to decrease the share count and keep the share value for investors? hmmm just pondering

COuld IBM be on the hook for a couple billion which would lower there stock price, so to held out management will repurchase shares to decrease the share count and keep the share value for investors? hmmm just pondering

I disagree that "they cringe at $300M". Who's they? The i4i case has been completely insurance money. The insurance company paid for the trial and are on the hook for the $240+M. It is the insurance company, with the ok by MSFT for cooperation, that is footing that bill. Why is that important? Patent insurance coverage runs calendar year, and MSFT probably has a $500M policy (maybe more) but probably close to $500M was spent between the i4i trial and Juxtacomm trial. The award to i4i is counted unless appeal is won to some degree by the insurance company. MSFT was probably close to having no more insurance coverage for 2009, and was faced with this trial in a few weeks. Sure, the merits of the case are key, but when the insurance coverage is nearly depleted, it sure makes for different focus by the defendants.

As for the other comments on payouts, I can only say that I was told repeatedly (the story was the loudest and best when $$ was needed) that this would be huge, and A-G would not take this case for anything short of the largest patent case in US history, dollar-wise. I think it is interesting that the bar was raised higher and higher and the defendants fell one by one. But in the end we settled for softer amounts? Prove it, is what I say, and I agree with the suggestion someone made of a forensic audit. It was bad enough that we heard nothing for 2+ years b/c of "confidentiality of the trial". If the same excuse continues to fly after everything is finished, I suggest a forensic audit. Keep your eyes on the prize and don't take them off it.

Lastly, if this is a MSFT buyout, don't be surprised to be one of Bill's shareholders, at least to some percentage.

Oct 27, 2009

Long time reader,first time poster.
Are we all to take whatever TH tell us an run to the bank. I think that after 2 plus years of absolutly no communication from this company that a FORENSIC AUDIT should be done without question. This will most defanitly delay our payout, but what the hell we,ve all waited this long for our return, whats another few weeks.
Time and money well spent in my opinion.

Oct 27, 2009

Holy crap. Why don't you greedy, distrusting jerks shut the &%#* up? It will be what it will be. You trusted this management with your money when you bought, so why not trust them now. They have no reason to screw you since in the process they screw themselves. I can only assume that you think they have the same moral standard that you live by. If you were in there position would you be inclined to do what you are thinking they are doing? If so that says a lot and if not relax and just wait and see.
That you haven't heard anything for 2 years is because many of you have big mouths. I assume it was A/G's orders to run silent. Do you think IBM and MS haven't been monitoring this site and any of the others that might gain them some inside information?
From my perspective Teilhard and A/G have played this hand as well as it could be played. If you think you could have done better then perhaps you should get your law degree and give it a shot.
Regarding your precious investment, you put bet on snake eyes, the worst bet on the table. It wasn't an investment it was a bet like all stock purchases. You just hit a huge payoff. Be happy and wait for the dealer to give you your winnings. Just remember, your payout will not equal the settlement.
Regarding the additional shares, they kept the company at the table, creating Purus which should create an income stream that will last for quite a while. And don't forget the licensing will also be future income. Purus could be the beginning of another patent infringement suit and possible another huge payout in a few more years. And possibly justification for MS to buy outright at a price significantly higher than the settlement. Now wouldn't that be sweet.
And don't expect the company to give you all of the settlement. This is a company that needs operating capital to keep growing.
So like the song says "DON'T WORRY...BE HAPPY" I sure am.

The I agree with alot of what you said, but the "needs capital to keep growing" thing could be a problem. Many investors were specifically told that they were investing in a patent lawsuit, not a company. It was promised that settlement money brought in would mean payments out (minus legal expenses, bonuses,ect). If the company were to keep a large percentage for "operating capital" it would be different than what was promised.

I totally agree with the betting on "snake eyes" analogy, though. No one could seriously consider this an investment. It was a gamble that paid off. You invest in companies, their management, their products and strategies...you gamble on patent lawsuits. Luckily, our gamble struck gold. For this reason, I'll be incredibly thankful for 10-15 bucks (but I certainly can HOPE for more!)

Now, that's assuming that everything is above board. The only reason I question this being above board is the lack of communication. If, starting in a couple of weeks, the communication is thorough, and the explanations are clear, I'll be satisfied. If they continue with the lack of communication and explanations, I won't. Pretty simple.

I don't think it is being greedy or distrustful to simply want to have "internal due diligence" in place with so much at stake. If there is absolutely zero concern by anyone inside, then there should be no complaints. I used to ask how many total shares there were to simply see how many different #s would percolate. The last number I was told, when I asked that question on this blog awhile back, was 102 million. Now I see that there is more than 111 million shares, as of October 15th at OT. How many will it be by Nov 9th and where did any new ones come from, if there are new ones that pop up?

Sorry, I just cannot feel comfortable with loosy-goosy numbers and I certainly feel less comfortable when docs are Sealed and then the "sealed" nature leaves little to be communicated to shareholders. I am not demanding a forensic audit, but I sure as heck would favor it if all we hear is, "this is what it is and that's that" with no other proof. My own basic business sense says to simply check out and make sure that fund$ are ALL accounted for. If you have a problem with that- tough- I know many that do not, and it is not an attack on the company to suggest a forensic audit, but rather a prudent move to PROTECT ALL shareholders' best interest. Why argue with that?

I agree this company was not meant to be an “on-going concern”. It is the patient cash that we all signed up for. Everybody should relax and let management do their thing. Give them the benefit of the doubt, after that if shareholders aren’t happy, then fine let the lynching and disfiguring of children begin. Until then just relax.

Oct 27, 2009

Holy Crap is right greedy. Since I invested in this trusted management two of them have since been fired for screwing the company (thus the investor) and they are counter suing the current management for wrongful dismissal-give me a break. Read your CFS 2004 books where so #@%& up they where unauditable, this is exactly why I want an audit.

If I wanted to gamble I would have bought a bunch of lotto tickets. But instead I made an investment based on a calculated risk via information provided to me. I could have bought Teckcominco at $2 in Feb and now they are at $30 so don't tell me the length this has taken has not resulted in lost opportunity nor is this the only opportunity I could have ever made this kind of return on.

Look at what happened to the CEO of IAG, Mr. Greenburg after 35 years was asked to step down because of some irregularities and we can give a thousand more since this down turn has flushed them out. It is only the guilty who want to hide.

All we are asking for is some transparency! How many shares does management hold each, if they have sold some of their personal shares was that recorded correctly, etc.

Hello everyone, it looks like things are getting settled out and it is a safe time to start exposing. Not Greedy "it will be what it will be" " you trusted the management when you bought" sounds very interesting, yes we trusted the management on what they told us to get our investment dollars and now it is time to tell us about the money, so we can compare the TRUTH "what it is" with what was said.

Recap "what was said"

-Ten million dollars retainer in a contingency case, the first time A/G has ever done a contingency, this is the biggest case ever in North American history, this is the largest case A/G has ever been involed in. There will absolutly be no more expenses for Shopplex, our risk ends at the Ten Million Dollars, even if we loose the risk belongs to A/G.

-Every time there is a settlement we will be cutting checks to the shareholders, you can expect 5 or 6 by July of 2008 in the amount of $40.00 per share and then up to $100.00 per share in total by the end.

-The split is 70-30 with no details, this is a slam dunk.

-No there are no Bonuses to Directors, Officers and Management

-After we raise the Ten Million Dollars we will not be selling anymore shares until this is over.

Many more things were said but these are the important ones we can talk about at this time. I'm just repeating what was said to me and many, many other shareholders during the raising of the ten million dollars. since then information has been disclosed that contradicts what was said, some during the AGM, some in the Annusl General Report, and when all is said and done we will see "what it is".

As far as "what it will be is what it will be" yes that is true, but fortunately we can have a say in how and what will be distributed to the shareholders through a special meeting or an AGM. Yes! Now is the time for that transparency, full disclosure, and accountability that we have been talking about.

I'm sure everything is going to happen just the way it is supposed to, even if it has taken some time, within the next week shareholders rights will be exercised.

Holy Crap Cobalt, is it really you resurrected and preaching again. I almost believe that you and your group was going to force a special meeting of some sort back during the summer, but you disappeared (holidays or gave up). I personally feel much better now knowing you and the other watch dogs are still alive and well and (kicking ass).

Thank you for writing with your usual sense of fairness and balance. Your work on behalf of shareholders has been most appreciated.

Me and my partners are anxiously awaiting full disclosure and transparency from TH in the immediate future. Should full disclosure not occur, we will absolutely support an independent forensic audit.

A request for audit is not an implication of wrongdoing. It is a request for information which all shareholders are legally entitled to. If everything is as it should be, I'll be completely satisfied. If not, I'll be happy to see the situation rectified. This is a business investment, after all.

Now cheers everyone! One way or another, we will be able to ensure everyone is treated fairly.

BTW....to the (imo) Management Cheerleading Committee - nothing to hide = nothing to find. What are you all so worried about???? You should be happy that everyone will have an opportunity to show how above board they all are! Then we can all shut up and go ahead on our respective merry ways...

Looking forward to sending my children to University, and helping support a good cause or two...

1. Yes there is proof to all of the
FACTS they were stated before (months ago) and in the intrests of the shareholders, and not disrupting the court case, now is the time. The time since has been spent organizing, gathering information and preparing to do what is right.

2. I think all shareholders would agree that what ever the settlements, deals, or what ever has happened in Texas is as good as we could get because Akin Gump were on the case. Now is time for action to protect our investment so that shareholders get maximum return, again transparency and full disclosure so we as shareholders can decide what is best for the company that we funded, and we own.

3. There might have been a little emotion in the statement that I wont stop until the management team is gone, but I will tell you that some proposed changes are coming to the Board of Directors so that the chain of command is clear; The Board of Directors Control Management Management does not Control the Board.

Promises are being kept and NOW IS THE TIME.

Oct 27, 2009

Zest: When most people invested there was no lawsuit so I am not sure who those people are. Anybody that bets on a jury must have forgotten about the OJ trial. That's putting two and two together and getting five. There is a patent plus an infringer equals lawsuit. Could have as ended up being a lot of licensing and no lawsuit.
So when the lawsuit is completed and you have your payout what are you going to do with your stock, burn it? Do you expect Shopplex to close it's doors and walk away. I believe Teilhard/Purus are ripe for a buy or partnership. I did when I bought, and I do today. I want the company to keep growing so if management pulls a few million off the top for future expenses and growth, no problem. That's why Purus exist today.
Steel: It is distrustful to start talking about a forensic audit before we even know the result of the suit. As I recall the last audit took about six months. Are you willing to wait another six months just to find out if the people you trusted with your money are trustworthy? Regarding greed, just read some of the comments. All speculation of course, but attached to it is an implied demand to meet some payout that might have been mentioned years ago. If you were told that the payout would be huge, then what do you consider huge. If you doubled your money on any stock offering that would be huge, wouldn't it? I am not sure what loosy-goosy numbers you are referring to. Other than on this blog of course which is exactly why the docs were sealed. As stated before it would make no sense for management to play with the numbers. They are the major stock holders and stand to gain the most by an early and accurate payout. Keep in mind the taxes on capital gains would be much less than taxes on income. I do want to thank you for your input on this blog. You seem to have a grasp of the legalities and the ability to put it in a understandable form. However I do believe you are now stirring the pot before there is anything in it. Besides IBM and MS looking at this blog for some kind of inside information, Teilhard probably looks as well to get a sense of what kind of attitudes might exist. On Friday everybody seemed happy and excited. On Monday everybody started talking how much and when. Now on Tuesday it's do we trust Teilhard management? Do you think it's been easy for Teilhard to keep quiet when you know they want to tell all? I am sure that many of the people that put their money on Teilhard were family, friends and employees. When you start talking a lack of trust, you start hurting feelings. I know if I were management I would be thinking, what do we have to do to make these people happy? I will leave you with my philosophy. I trust everyone until they give me a reason not to. I trusted Teilhard and while at times I wondered what the heck was going on, they never gave me a reason not to trust them. That trust has paid off big time.
Cobalt: The person who was screwing "you" in the past was fired, and as I recall he was the founder of the company. I would think that you would think this was a good thing, but instead you seem to think that gives you more reason not to trust the new (existing) management. So for you a different philosophy...if you can't say something nice, shut the %#*& up.

Management has brought credible people to the Board of Directors. They don't appear like a lot of "yes" men to me. The Board has to be aware of the possibility of a forensic audit and what the results of a an audit not favorable to all shareholders would result in. Let us not jump to irrational conclusions before the story unfolds.

Not Greedy, just to clarify I didn't say anyone was screwing me, I am just talking about facts and shareholders rights to prevent any wrong doing, if you find that offensive or not nice, you are not required to read my posts. I dont want to reinvent the wheel, I have stated my intentions over and over again on this Blog and it all has to do with benefitting all shareholders except those with alterior motives with self interests.

"There will absolutly be no more expenses for Shopplex, our risk ends at the Ten Million Dollars, even if we loose the risk belongs to A/G.

-Every time there is a settlement we will be cutting checks to the shareholders, you can expect 5 or 6 by July of 2008 in the amount of $40.00 per share and then up to $100.00 per share in total by the end."

Both of these statements are absolute BS. Plus, your math sucks. If we were to receive 5 or 6 payouts of $40 per share each, that is a hell of a lot more than $100 total. Do you just have numbers written on confetti and pull them out of a bag at random?

I and about 30 other shareholders that I personally know have never heard these statements uttered or read them anywhere except for you trying to pound it down our throats. Why you feel the need to continue to twist things into lies is beyond me but I am sure you will get what's coming to you. NOW IS THE TIME!

WOW, looks like almost everyone's back for another round of TH in-fighting except LL. (sorry, forgot, she's not a shareholder)

jackfish: Not trying to under mind our current honorable board members, but my understanding is that it is very difficult to prosecute the Board of Directors for white collar offenses. I was a member of the board of a publicly traded company many years ago and thank goodness everything was ok. Unless times have changed.

AG did a fantastic job handling the case there are fruits to be shared for all but, all deserve a fair share.

I have some reservations on what management may consider reasonable operating capital to be retained in the company. Lots of room for B.S. there

I did have to laugh one post said total settlement of 2$ per share another person thinks $10 is a lot = one Bobby settlement (not my math).... MSF gross 12 bobbies a 1/4. IBM just announced a 5B buy back according to above. This is the league we're in. (not settlement just size of companies)

I think there's a few people here who need to realize how big big business is. AG just laid a beat down and they didn't settle for a 1B when they started at 138B.

A settlement should be around 3/4 of what you thought you were going to get not 1%. (not saying 138B is what they thought they were going to get)

Wait for the update from management. Then you can grab a pitch fork or a champagne glass.

The books should be audited this is a huge amount of money we're dealing with.

Jackfish I agree with your comment on the Board. credible public figures that aren't going to tarnish their reputation for money.

It's suprising to me that some are so quick to praise management for where they have gotten us thus far. Given that no litigation particulars have been released to shareholders, not to mention the nagging questions that remain regarding bonuses, options, dilution etc. how does anyone really know that we are being taken care of?

Contrary to some opinions, it is not indicative of our own dishonesty if we don't trust management. Given the YEARS of misinformation from this management team, it is absolutely prudent and within our rights to question what has happened behind the scenes. Like Hittime said to the cheer squad, nothing to hide = nothing to find. It's time we as sophisticated investors complete our due diligence with a forensic audit as this will be beneficial for all investors. Why not get behind it? If everything is as it should be, then perhaps some trust in this management team can be rebuilt.

@blinkin : Your predictions make me uneasy as they are a lot less far-fetched than $65 dividends.

I am glad we can ask questions, its a freedom we have here in North America, they will always come up. Nothing wrong with questions.
Sometimes though, without answers to those questions, they can turn into accusations, because we assume that if there's nothing to hide there will be answers; people are generally eager to clear up misinformation, which leads me to my next point;
I am glad we have AGM's, great and appropriate place to get answers. Accountability is a great thing, and almost always nessessary to keep each of us at our best. Lack of accountability is almost always a bad thing, History has proven it over and over.
I am glad the litigation portion of this venture is over and we can move forward to getting some answers, and I hope that all are cleared of any wrong, this would be a great outcome, but please, don't shoot at people because they ask questions, and some of them very good questions, rather, see what you can learn from the answers. Its not questions that do damage, its lack of communication.

Health in relationships is most often a product of good communication. "Just trust me" can work but works best when there is already trust in a relationship, and a good relationship will always lead back to good communication, therefore, if there is no response to, but only one way communication.... it begins to lead to... more questions
sorry if this came through twice

Any internal emotional debate at this stage of the game is a hell of a lot better than waiting for the previous set trial date 2 weeks away and the possibility of full blown trial with 2 super heavy weights. I definitely prefer waiting for a positive TH announcement in a couple of weeks VS fighting in a Texas court.

Oct 27, 2009

What cobalt is not telling you is that the group he represents has the support of the former chief executive and others who have a personal grudge against the company. It is an unholy alliance. So I would be wary about all their talk of looking after shareholders' interests. They have an agenda, and it does not go far beyond themselves.

Steelhard, did Cobalt somehow crack your password? Those words of mistrust and Forensic audit do not sound like my "Man of the Year" winner. Folks Teilhard's books have been audited for the past number of years. A forensic audit isn't going to tell us anything new other than take 2 years and about $1M bucks. As a CA myself I thinks our auditors are somewhat insulted and certainly annoyed with the ignorant comments being made by some people who likely can't pay their visa without borrowing from their mastercard.
A forensic audit is something you order when a fraud has actually occured. They follow the trail of the actual crime not rehash 10 years of accounting records in a hope to maybe find some unauthorized lunch expenses. If you want to spend some money use your own not mine, better yet take a few accounting courses so that you can read and understand a balance sheet. Yeah they don't communicate with s? and it took 10 years not 6 months but anything >$2 is win for everyone and at $32 bucks we will be most pleased and the rich guys will be richer. If Cobalt posts one more stupid comment I'm going to lose what little public manners I have.

deception, I don't know where your information comes from but if you have any information that ties me to as you say an unholy alliance. I would welcome the information to be revealed right here, right now. The good thing is that all shareholders have rights and the ability to decide exactly what they want and that is all there is to it. The only thing we are asking for is full disclosure and transparency to be able to make informed decisions.

Ummm...just to clarify a silly number ...the $138 billion that Vince used in his title was not real for this batch of contenders...it was for ALL contenders...we still have another 200+ to go after and these settlements are going to make this easier...if we weren't bought(although I am still crossing the fingers and my money is on that)then AG will be suing another whole batch and we have more $$ coming our way...liquidity/dividend events for the rest of our lives or a lump with a sale....either way we are going to be sitting pretty and we will know more in Nov...until then no one really knows shit!

It's absolutely shocking how some of you are low-balling estimated amounts for final payout...and actually saying you'd be happy to receive them! I'm sorry, but doubling my money would at this point amount to a slap in the face after all the promises of lofty payouts that have been made by management.

Every shareholder I know that has spoken directly to management, has heard the figure 'north of $70.00' from day one. A similar figure was given to me by management as of July 2009. The word right up until a few weeks ago was; "nothing has changed".

I'd sure hate to think that these low estimating posts are being made by management in an attempt to 'cushion the blow' they may be about to deal us...with any luck, this is not the case, and those posting such numbers are merely ill informed and/or have general low expectations.

Re: the 10 mill. followed by AG taking this case on contingency...anyone at the AGM can attest to hearing this directly from KP's mouth. I was at the meeting.

The litigation portion of this is not over(unless we were sold or the patent was)...there are 200+ more to go after and more money to be had...sealed records are not going to become unsealed...that's why they are called S-E-A-L-E-D...it is huge and will get huger...and I am making that a new word...HUGER...rofl

I can not comment on what wasn't told to me, therefore, I won't tell CP what he was or wasn't told, and he should respect the same from others.
I can however tell you this, I was told / sold the same story that Cobalt was in regards to the 10 Mil upfront money AG would receive, as they assumed the risk, and was a "partner" in this with TH. I was also informed about how payouts would take place, options and the "we have no" bonus structure.

When the financials came out in early 2008, the AG deal was not as per what we were "sold" during the raising of funds.
The bonus program (which didn't exist) came clear during the trial via PACER.

What we (the shareholders) have won is unknown. Praising mgmt for an unknown is ludicrous.

We support transparency, and if an audit is required to achieve this, lets get it on.

Can anyone recall who does the annual audit? Remember audit is not 100% assurance, however related party transactions, etc are high risk areas and appropriate procedures should be completed to address high risk assertions on those areas.

How is waiting for the news in 2 weeks, being in someone's pocket? We're all in the same boat! I think I speak for many of us when I say that we're all hoping that it's a bit more detailed than the last few updates.

Holy shit pleople, settle down and take a chill pill. Let's wait this couple of weeks before we all decide to bring our shotguns and axes, OK!

Cobalt: I swear to God I'm gonna kick you in the nuckers if you continue with "what was promised", and "preparing to do what is right", and "protecting the shareholders' interests".
I can protect my interests just fine thank you very much. If you have something on this guys JUST GO AHEAD and report them or take them to court; or just cry like a baby that can't do shit about anything. NOW IS THE TIME to put your money were your big ass mouth is. Why do you need any of us (most of us don't like you anyways) to raise your banner?? Do me a favor and don't use words you don't yet understand.

Sorry everyone else, but this guy just got on my nerves for the last time. On another subject, I'm all for a forensic audit; some of my pals tell me that it could only take 4 months. This would bring my confidence and respect for this guys back up again.

By the way, I overheard RK talking over the phone about 1 month ago about 113M shares. Take it however you will. About ten minutes into the conversation he close the door. There was no secretary that day.

I agree, I have already stated I do not support past management for I know too much. This is an interesting question, can we get a payout from TH with the on going litigation with the former management, for this suit is based around share allocations. I think TH is trying to rescind their options which should go back to the shareholders and not roll over to current management.

To the unsophisticated investor everything is fine, to the sophisticated one many questions need to be answered. This is not a personal witch hunt against management it is just a quest for answers and adequate and fair compensation. I really hope everything is on the up and up so management can enjoy the fruits of their labor. If you are saying friends and family have the majority of shares then even at $10/share I think $250M is fair compensation. When it was the other shareholders buying shares at $1-2 not 8-20cents which kept the company afloat in order to get it to this stage.

Directors carry O&E insurance. Once again the board of directors on AIG or Worldcom or Enron where no light weights and they all had audited statements along with all the regulatory requirements of being a public company, but somehow improprieties still occurred. Homer as an accountant you should know your audits are only as good as what management wants to show you. Are you telling no accountant have ever been deceived by management? Can you also answer why 2004 is unauditable.

I think enough has been said, we will just have to wait until the AGM, hope everyone brings an open and fair mind-leaving personal vendettas at home but putting on your business caps.

CuriousPete, what happens when the corporation tells you there is a gag order and they can't tell you or show you anything, not only to do with the Litigation, but they use that as an excuse to completely keep you in the dark about everything, is that the proof of wrong doing you are talking about or would it seem prudent that us as shareholders should within our rights request an independant forensic audit of all non arms length transactions of the past, not just blindly accept an ordinary financial audit that is done every year as HomerSduh refers to as acceptable. I think as investers this should be the normal course of business and just part of the process.

Cobalt
One definition of forensic accounting is the application of accounting methods to the tracking and collection of forensic evidence, usually for investigation and prosecution of criminal acts such as embezzlement or fraud.
So if you say that for investors this should be the normal course of business and part of the process, I wonder what your business is like and how you run it.

I like the idea of a forensic audit if things are not clearly communicated and done above board, but I'm not sure about a 6 month wait. Oh, well. Patience helps build character.

Answers, I go back and forth on my own estimates. I would be happy to get $10-15 because I try to be thankful in general, and anytime you make a thousand percent on an investment, it's hard to complain. That's a minimum that makes sense to me (2 billion settlement minus costs).

I can totally see your reasoning, though. I know that 70 (or more) has been discussed. Guesses and projections are just that...not a contract. A "settlement" means that there was some give and take by both sides. MS and IBM are not going to give everything AG asked for. They might as well go to trial for that. AG received less than what they asked. What they gained was %100 certainty of success, and no delay or appeal. So the question is...what percentage of the original ask was getting a settlement worth? Tough question.

The other thing I've noticed in life is that you almost always get less than you want and hope for. Sometimes that isn't true, but it usually is. That's just human nature...it's how we are wired. So while I hope and think that we may get 20 for this first round (4 billion minus costs), I'm trimming my estimate by half. 10-15 per share for first round.

Cobalt, Sam et al
There is a blogger known as handsome hamster, who describes three types of people on one of his blogs. After reading his description, it seems to me that his description of the third type of person fits you. He describes this person as those who always think they are right all the time. They are CONFIDENT that their knowledge and experience will prove them right. They think people are always in the wrong or they are deceived or naive. They will argue all the time to prove their point. They have strong determination, but they can be so strong in their view point, that they are so terribly wrong.

Tonic Water,
Are you suggesting that you're right, and i am wrong ,,, how ironic. Prove your point, and support disclosure and stop protecting mgmt at all costs (or at least stop doing so at the cost of the shareholders). It's not wrong to ask for transparency & disclosure. To blindly support something you have no knowledge of $$$$ sounds awfully bias. Are you a Fam member as well?

Could it be the Directors held share options that they have now exercised?

Could it be the litigation with former employees has been settled? This will have to happen before the company could be sold.

Could it be that there is a 'bidding war' going on between the big guys? = let us hope so.

Could it be that the business plan did not works out 100% as planned?

Could it be that one of the advantages of being a small private company is the ability to change the business plan quickly when necessary? - for the benefit of all shareholders.

Could it be that something someone said that they understood to be true at the time - is not lying if it turns out not to be true? Criminal intent requires the word "knowingly".

Could it be that 'Caveat Emptor' really means "If it is not written down it is not worth the paper it is not written on"?

Could it be that AG gets 20% and the PLEC that sent the case to AG gets 10% for a total of 30% of the settlements - and that this is the cost of 'Top Guns' and obviously good value for money well spent?

Could it be that what is about to happen will immediately change the lives of all the present shareholders, and also benefit our generations to come?

All the naysayers take a pill. Two weeks ago we all were terrified that either IBM or MS would take us to trial. Now for whatever reason they have folded. All this sniping will not change one thing. The lads at Th probably strung people along since they had no choice, as no money was coming every time someone asked them how progress was. So they fibbed. Big deal. It's over - take your gloves along and fight it out. Holy frig we are that close to finally getting moolah - maybe shit loads - maybe far less. IT'S OVER. Instead of being happy, all this fighting. Holy crap give it a break will ya.
RMB

WELL WELL!! Whats the chances I'm surfing for new blogs as this one is almost over for us, and what do I find?? Another blog that Sam008 and Cobalt and Laughable Liberal are on (using other names I assume). I can only assume with confidence it's them as their behavior here shows they are skeptical and have the most ridiculous assumptions about management and board when faced with the FACT we have Pacer doc's confirming the good news. They aren't fit to sleep with pigs,and I'm siding with the pigs.

Vincent,
As the trial is over and no disclosure of substance will be made public any time soon, I suggest you close the blog with one more complete review of the proceedings from you. It serves no purpose to ITtoolbox/Deloitte/IBM any longer. The last 100 posts are bickering/presumptions and as the judge has stayed the case, Pacer will be quiet as well. The shareholders will be notified on the Teilhard site with updates and information in due course.

thank you for allowing us to have a ring side seat and for your comments an insight.

Vincent,
As the trial is over and no disclosure of substance will be made public any time soon, I suggest you close the blog with one more complete review of the proceedings from you. It serves no purpose to ITtoolbox/Deloitte/IBM any longer. The last 100 posts are bickering/presumptions and as the judge has stayed the case, Pacer will be quiet as well. The shareholders will be notified on the Teilhard site with updates and information in due course.

thank you for allowing us to have a ring side seat and for your comments an insight.

Wow, People get in a tizzy in a hurry. IMHO we should all hang tight until the announcement. Listen to what is presented and if there is any question about impropriety at that point, take the appropriate actions. I can't see any need for any gag-order type of spiel by management as long as the judge has signed off on whatever the Microsoft deal is. Maybe the shareholders will be doing the signing off at that point, hard to say. Everything should be available for viewing at that time. If not, there will have to be some very convincing arguments as to why not. If it isn't transparent, pitchforks and shovels can be readied and a visit to the office will be in order.

This now reads like a blog for snotty nosed middle aged kids fighting over mommy's and daddy's inheritance. Get a life. You will get what you will get. Someone else did all the work for you, be grateful.

Actually, I did all the work for the money I invested. Nobody earned it for me. I made the decision to invest based on the information presented. I expect to reap any rewards from that investment. Mommy and Daddy weren't involved in any way. If I was lied to or taken advantage of, I will also be the one dealing with that eventuality.

Actually, I did all the work for the money I invested. Nobody earned it for me. I made the decision to invest based on the information presented. I expect to reap any rewards from that investment. Mommy and Daddy weren't involved in any way. If I was lied to or taken advantage of, I will also be the one dealing with that eventuality.

The next announcement in about 10 days times will probably tell us that MS has put forward some proposals. There might be some details about the structure of the deal. Maybe even some money numbers will start to get out. I expect we have to sign off at an AGM and then we'll be rich. No worries everyone. It's over but the crying
RMB

Very well said tcp71....It just makes sense to wait and see what management has to say before we all start losing it & choose to take any action.

And yes I agree wholeheartedly with your response to 'imaho4dough'.....We most certainly DID work hard to earn the money we INVESTED. To compare this to an inheritance and shareholders to spoiled, undeserving children awaiting it is a ridiculous and highly inacurate analogy.

Imaho....this is the very perceived sentiment that many shareholders are reacting to....the idea that we should all simply shut up and take whatever is given with full gratitude at simply being involved...no questions asked..no answers given.
Shareholders, those people who choose to hand over money in hopes of reaping a return, deserve a certain amount of respect from mgmt. of any company they choose to invest in....without this...why would anyone ever invest?

No doubt mgmt. deserves credit...but sharholders also deserve credit (and consideration) for the part they play.

I'm not belittling the efforts of management, but without the investor's money and risk tolerance, they wouldn't have had salaries, working capital, share options, potential bonuses or the ability to get to this point. Equal reward for equal input. It's a symbiotic relationship. I expect my due share, not to be told "you'll take what I decide to give you", now that my part of the relationship is no longer as necessary. It was the highest priority before and during the lawsuit and my rewards should show that.

Correct me if I am wrong - but I think all class "A" shares will get an equal amount, after the lads at AG take 20% and the PLEC takes 10%. I might be a little uninformed - the bonus amount may come off the top too, which I've heard is 4.5%. So other than those amounts getting deducted we all share, depending on our holdings, the rest.........There will be no hankypanky; the Alberta Securities Commision will make sure of that. Plus AG would NOT want their reputations sullied by this - so don't expect anything else but above board divvying. And it's going to happen most probably right after the AGM
RMB

I wrote my money off years ago having gotten involved almost from the beginning. I know my wife will be ecstatic if I just get my money back but here's hoping some of the more optimistic posters are correct. Until such time that I have a cheque in hand; however, I won't be changing my retirement plans.

Thanks to Vincent and all the regular contributers. I only learned of this blog recently and have spent numerous hours over the last week getting an education. Who knows, maybe I'll spring for a trip home to Calgary for the AGM next time instead of signing my usual un-informed proxy.

The correct % cuts are, AG-25 and middle men/company-5, and don't bank on ASC to enforce if there are any hankypankies. They are a bunch of watch dogs, lots of barking but not enough bites plus it'll take them (YEARS) to investigate. Look what happen to BRE-X even with our mighty RCMP's help. I strongly believe KP and boys did not intentional lied but did over stated the actual facts at the time due to extreme financial pressure (TO DO OR DIE). I am not saying that it was the right or wrong thing to do but would the end justify the means, we'll see !

tcp71.
You made no investment here. You made a bet and you won, or will when the payout get to you. Somebody convinced you that if you placed this bet you would have a good chance of winning, and you took a chance.
You seem to have forgotten that they did all the work. They answered as many of you dumb ass questions as the could. They developed what may be a great new product in Purus which could be a great income stream for you in the future, and a possible second patent infringement suit. Nobody has told you they will give you what they want and you will be happy with it. No one has said anything. You are swatting at the air thinking there is something in it that you can't see. We are all going to get what is coming to us. Grow up, you are acting like a spoiled little child.

not,
I have a share certificate, not a lottary ticket. I've never contacted anyone at Teilhard with any question after my initial purchase 7.3years ago. I would recommend you make the same comments to me face-to-face at the AGM.

I don't see why some people are upset about having a watch dog to make sure that TH is staying within their guidelines.
I for one embrace it because there is a lot of cash involved and should be distributed fairly, being management or investor.
Money will turn some into greedy little brats that their mother won't even recognize.

tcp71
wow, lots of hostility for somebody that is now so rich and so vulnerable to a lawsuit of his own. Like I said...you need help, but if you would really like to meet me for a little one on one at the AGM that would be great. I will pin a daisy on your T-Shirt, give you a kiss on the cheek and watch as the RCMP hall your hostile butt off to jail. So, how shall I recognize you other than the T-Shirt. I will be wearing a beige suit with brown heels. Odd that you would think I was a man, or were you going to beat up a woman.
OK. Since your didn't give me your name I have to assume you are a coward. But just in case wear a tag that says TCP-71.
Buck: It's simple. You trusted them with a bunch of your cash, now you don't trust them. Greedy little brats? Are you referring to management, or some of the morons on this blog?

lets have a little lesson on a corporation. Shareholders own the company, management is employed by the company, we as shareholders elect a board of directors as overseers to ensure management is providing the highest possible return to the shareholders not for the betterment of themselves. They chose to form a corporation in Alberta thus they must live by the laws put forth. If they believed they could have achieved all of this without shareholders then they should have raised the capital by loans not selling shares.

If this gets out of step, then management is fired and a new board is elected. Just like all the top executives caught up in the New Castle and Galleon Hedge Fund scandal (Intel,AMD,IBM). I agree innocent until proven guilty, provide us with all the info: How many shares management owns? How many personal shares did they sell? How much dilution occurred from this? Why should they get a bonus with such a generous stock option? Way too many questions still.

I am not going to cry over what was said to me or promised to me many years ago, but as a shareholder I am going to hold the bofd accountable to ensure they maximize my returns.

Small correction though: Shareholders own a percentage of the company. Does anybody know what percentage is owned/controlled by management of TH? If they control 51%, then they control the company. Minority shareholders have no influence, other than an appeal to the board. Did TH sell more than 50%? If so, then everything you said is completely true, assuming that investors controlling 51% or more of the shares agree with a suggested course of action. If not, then we, as minority shareholders, have little influence, and no control. We DO have legal rights, but not the ability to just fire the board at will.

Greedy,
Hardly threatening or hostile. Just very interested in who would go into a mouth frothing frenzy like that on an internet blog, because people want some accountability. Rich? You'd laugh if you know how many shares I've got. Lawsuit? you must be american. Vulnerable? Hardly. PM me (i can't figure out how to manage that from this site), and I'll give you my name and cell number and we can talk about shareholder rights. Then you can also make an informed decision about the "coward" thing.

I’ve been reading this blog consistently over the past 2 years, but I have never posted until today. However, I felt like this was the appropriate time, so here goes ...

I’m a forty-something business man, and I basically stumbled on this investment a few years ago after hearing about it from a friend. I don’t know any of the board of directors, don’t know any of you, and after reading this blog (especially the last few days), I really don’t have any desire to meet most of you either. Many of you are acting like little bratty children, with the “my dad can beat up your dad” mentality.

Please allow me to articulate the way things are “shaking down” from my perspective.

I would consider myself a “seasoned” investor, and I can honestly say that I have NEVER experienced anything comparable to this complete LACK of communication from management and the Board. Regardless of whether a company is public or private, management owes it to shareholders to keep them apprised of what’s going on. Unfortunately, we have not been afforded this most fundamental courtesy (and responsibility) from management. We have been kept in the dark, promised the moon, and only contacted when the company needed more funding. This is intolerable, regardless of what the oblivious “sheeple” on this blog say.

Perhaps the majority of the bloggers here feel like they don’t deserve to get a break or to get ahead in life. Maybe they’ll be happy to receive a 10X return on their investment, or 15X, or whatever.

Perhaps the possibility that, based on the settlement amounts, their returns should actually be 40X doesn’t bother them at all.

Perhaps the fact that the Board has refused to divulge the amount of the bonuses and options they intend to exercise doesn’t bother them.

Well, let me tell you, it BOTHERS ME. I’m sick and tired of folks claiming that the Board of Directors are all “angels” and if you question them, well you’re just “mean” and “nasty” and have an agenda or “ulterior motives.” This is just plain ignorant.

Every one of Cobalt’s contentions are correct. I heard each of these “promises” myself, from the $10 million maximum exposure, to the 2008 settlement checks, to the “slam dunk” rhetoric. It appears to me that, despite the fact that most of you on this blog are trying to crucify him, Cobalt is the one person who is actually trying to make sure that YOU get your fair share of the settlements.

He certainly does appear (at least to me) to be doing everything in his power to protect the shareholders (even the jerks and idiots that are on this blog). Management owes shareholders full disclosure and transparency, and don’t give me this BS that there is some inexplicable, numinous “gag order” still in place.

I’m sorry, this “trust them, they’re looking out for you” mentality about the Board is just naïve and will eventually result in a royal screwing of the shareholders if we don’t take action now.

I tend to believe that both management and board members together controls roughly 30 % of outstanding shares. Regardless of the actual numbers, they DO NOT control our company. They only have administrative control until next AGM with the majority shareholder's blessing.

"Perhaps the possibility that, based on the settlement amounts, their returns should actually be 40X doesn’t bother them at all."

Obviously, you know more that ALL of us put together because you know the settlement amounts. Please share.

P.

Oct 28, 2009

Cobalt

is that 12% fully diluted after exercising their options?

Zesty you are right they are shareholders just like us, whoever holds the major of the shares wins and will dictate how things roll. This is where trouble can arise in the case of Madoff and Stanford the board was a joke made up of insider yes men. We will see if the board are only looking out for themselves or for the well being of the shareholders.

So this time at the AGM I hope each one will take the time to cast their own votes and not just give the power of proxy to management. I guarantee you the AGM will have a different feel if management walks into the the room know this time they are not carrying the majority of votes.

CC 12% Today, but if they want they can give themselves another 15-20% depending on what has or hasn't been exercised yet. The option plan gives them the ability to hand out 20% of the total outstanding shares anytime they want.

No, I have no idea what settlement amounts are. As I stated, I don’t know the Board nor do I have any “inside connections” that many of the bloggers claim to have. I’m just an investor that has a dreadful feeling, based on the Board’s historical apparent lack of concern for the shareholders’ best interests, that they may be primed to “max out” their bonuses, options, etc.

The connotation of my comment concerning the 40X returns was simply that, IMHO, if we don’t act now to make sure that the Board doesn’t “pillage and plunder,” we may end up with far less in our pockets at the end of the day than we should. I have no idea at what price everyone bought their shares, so my contrasting 40X with 15X was simply that – a contrast in potential return on investment – not a prediction of $40 per share vs. $15 per share. I have no idea what dividends (if any) are “right around the corner.”

I agree with Blinkin’s predictions, especially the last statement that “shareholders get what they get, with little or no recourse.” This is the dismal scenario that, I believe, Cobalt is attempting to prevent, and that’s why I posted my support for his/her efforts. I’m not a chauvinist, so I don’t want to take for granted that Cobalt is a male.

I agree a wait and see approach is wrong... lets wait and see... if the money is disbursed unfairly we can then take action... What action can you take when the money is gone? I'm not saying that we are going to get screwed... I want to join the team that MAKE SURE we don't get screwed!

I'm not saying that it is one extreme or the other, but the only way we can make sure things are on the up and up is by making sure we know what is going to happen before it happens. That's all I want.

I'm not saying that it is one extreme or the other, but the only way we can make sure things are on the up and up is by making sure we know what is going to happen before it happens. That's all I want.

Oh... and I don't plan to join the lynch mob before warranted... but, if I get $3/share and I find out after the fact it should have been $8/share. I'm going to buy myself the shiniest, sharpest pitchfork I can find for my $3!

tcp71
mouth frothing frenzy? not sure where the frenzy is. or the frothing. oh well. there is little difference between face to face and toe to toe. but i will give you the benefit of doubt.
i wouldn't laugh about your shares at all. i know some people are in with very small numbers and some with huge numbers of shares. that is hardly important. American? come on, look at the number of people jumping on the teilhard lawsuit bandwagon. if i read this blog correct most everybody is more interested in the suit than the future of teilhard. and i will make another assumption, that most of these people are Canadians. pot and kettle, eh. i am very aware of shareholder rights. you get one vote per share and that it. if you chose to ruffle the feathers of management by accusation, and mistrust then be prepared to deal with it. as i have said at least twice in the past, trust them until they give a reason not to. at present they, not you, have made you a lot of money with hard work and perseverance. yes, they did it in part with your money, but I doubt any of them got rich at least until now. and you don't know any of them well enough to assume some of the things that are being assumed on this site.
not sure how talking to you direct will make me more informed. regarding the coward comment, i take it back. it was out of line since i only know of you from what you say. but keep in mind face to face does have a hostile tone.
no reason to PM. if you have something to say you can say it here. otherwise lets forget it and move on.
and "don't worry, be happy".
i-love. i do like the idea of sumo suits and jello. sounds like fun. but no frustration here.

greedy,
Intent is a hard thing to decipher on the net. As is Gender, which really doesn't matter. Here's a direct quote from my posting above:

IMHO the company visuals so far seem above board. The final agreements are being drawn up and signed by the judge. Teilhard tells shareholders to expect an announcement in a couple of weeks. What nefarious activities should we be on the lookout for?

I'm sure the majority of shareholders will revolt if things are not done in a equitable manner, but so far things seem alright. I don't know the management from Adam.

Hey LL...just a cut and paste from the last working blog...wanted to see if this one still worked as all others have been shut down...no one but us has found this one. Op has started a new blog but seems to be all your guys:)lol
http://juxtacomm.wordpress.com/2009/11/13/hello-world/#comments

http://juxtacomm.wordpress.com
Then click on comments
It is running off at the mouth per usual. Nothing but guess and "I wants"...sheesh. I am going to love sitting back next year watching those guys all eat their words...I truly hope that someone buys them all out at a little over what they paid per share just to shut them up...then that person will retire very wealthy. If I had more cash or credit I would be in there...idiots they are.

I guess this blog opening up explains why TH feels it necessary to spend more shareholder money threatening to hire lawyers to scare anyone that speaks out against them. Hmm
The concerned shareholder site will open up tomorrow or the next day, then we can get the goods on what's happening and what's important.... not idle threats from our own company, lol

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Vincent McBurney is an IBM Champion for Information Integration and has been blogging for many years on InfoSphere software and ...
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Vincent McBurney is an IBM Champion for Information Integration and has been blogging for many years on InfoSphere software and competitors in Information Management, Governance, Data Integration and Data Warehousing.
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