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Topic: How much money is really enough? (Read 16074 times)

I am really curious as what takes for each of us pozzies to live ...I always thought boy if your making a $50,000 $100,000 a year your rich. Well, both Bob & I make less than 20K a yr. each, and I feel far from rich. We are responsible and pay all of our bills and save each month. But, we're not driving fancy Cars or Trucks...in fact our Truck is more than 13 years old. both of us aren't on medicaid or FS and any other State- adie - programs, and I'm shopping in discount stores, like Walmart and krogers. and the dollar-store..

We don't take luxury vacations. and we don't even use credit cards, unless we have to, So Does anyone have any idea what it really takes to live comfortably and @ what level of income? please answer this question with an open mind, and be objective with your replays, it's different for all of us, and were all @ different income levels,

Cause we all know that most of you queers in this forum, really aren't as pretentious as some of you claim to be, and I'm not gonna name names here, let's not go down that ugly road, so please answer with caution (and be objective) if you cannot be objective please don't even answer any of this... I don't wanna incriminate any of you here, just wanted to know your take on being a pozzie and how you all liveThanks

Dennis in ABQ

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"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

That's a very subjective question . It depends on what level of lifestyle you are accustomed to and where you choose to live . It also depends if you are living on investment income or a salary from a job .

I feel fortunate and content because I can put a roof over my head and pay my bills and eat out once or twice a week with friends and still pay my medical copay . That may not be enough to satisfy other people who are more ambitious about what they expect out of life but it works for me .

I have to agree with Jeff - it is subjective -I work full time and make a fairly good salary with good benefits; however, South Florida can be an expensive place to live.

By the time rent is paid, car insurance, gas, insurance co-pays, food, student loans, electric, cable, cell phone, gas, etc. there is just enough left to do a few things.

I enjoy going out dining and probably get to do so 3 times a week, a also still smoke cigs (so, that takes another $200 a month - although, I plan on quitting next week - I have already set the date) --

I can still very easily get set back by unexpected bills. I had a car repair bill hit this weekend that was over $900 - so that put a little dent in money I had set aside - and will take a few weeks to make back up.

I once learned from a boss of mine that happiness in life as it relates to finances isn't always dictated by how much one makes, but by how much one spends as a percentage compared to how much one makes (ex. if someone makes $30,000 a year but is spending $20,000, they are probably happier financially then someone who is making $100,000 a year but spending $99,000 of it).

So Does anyone have any idea what it really takes to live comfortably and @ what level of income? please answer this question with an open mind, and be objective with your replays, it's different for all of us, and were all @ different income levels,

something more than $8600 a yr + foodstamps. I have been able to live on that amount in both OH and SC. In both states, I have a house, utilities (gas, power, water, including basic phone and cable), and a used vehicle. I am able to feed myself and my 3 dogs, eat out at Wendy's once a month (what a dining out splurge that is. LOL), and have access to medications and healthcare.

Am I comfortable? With my basic needs (and a little more) met, yes, I would say I'm comfortable. But I'd be a heckuva lot more comfortable with something over $10K a year, that's for sure. LOL

Yes Phil, and it's even harder if you live alone (I don't so that makes things better) also, living in South Beach is expensive, but so is NYC, but I heard that most people are happy with 50K a yr or more, anything less than this is kinda hard no matter what you do, and yes, I read about your 900 buckcar-repair, so i know how that is too

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"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Well, this is very subjective. I have distant family members who live in rural areas in their paid off, but run-down trailers or homes. They aren't interested in new TVs, cars, etc. They have zero interest in new laptops, Ipads, or cell phones. They are perfectly happy with the basics. Some heat their homes with wood stoves and wouldn't have it any other way. Some have old, but clean and functional furniture. Others have mattresses I wouldn't sleep on and really need replaced. But, those are the ones who just don't care. They'd rather spend their money on bingo the casinos.

But, I don't think that fits most Americans. We want working furnaces and central air. I say for the average, childless American couple, you need $60k to live "comfortably." This would mean a modest home/apt and older vehicles. But, if you lived within your means, you could have a decent place and not have to worry about utilities being shut off. This is still living pay check to pay check and not being able to save much. A furnace needing replaced would be a huge setback. With many of us having student loans, I would think the figure would be more like $70k at least. All bets are off, if you don't have good insurance as we all know. Or, if you have tons of credit card bills rolling in each month. And, this figure wouldn't work for NYC or San Fran. Although, in those cities, you dont need a car/car insurance. You'd pay a lot for an apt, but you wouldn't be spending money on updating the kitchen, bathrooms, landscape, and basement like you would for a house. So, maybe it would all balance out.

So what is the point of this Dennis - are you going somewhere with this? It seems clear that there will be a different answer by each person -- unless we all devolve to generalities. My question is a genuine one, because with just one cup of coffee in me it looks like it really is all about understanding the financial circumstances of forum memebers? I doubt that is your intent, but it is all I'm grasping right now.

Morning Den. Not sure what specifically you're asking. I'm certain you're not asking our specifics on our social economical statuses. I've been all over that scale and I can say without a doubt, that I'm happier now with my current status than I ever was in the past. Having strived hard in the past for more and then even more, I was a slave to possessions and missed out on what was really important.

I'm quite comfortable, but more importantly, I've reached that level of contentment that can't be purchased. I was fortunate though to contribute the maximum to my 401k, purchase employee stock weekly and never go in debt with charge accounts. I'm surprised now that I had the foresight to do this considering I never expected to reach middle age, let alone retirement age.

I think many people still get caught up, not understanding their true needs v's of their wants.

You always have a fridge full of beer, so all your needs must be met...

Wolfie

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Complacency is the enemy. Challenge yourself daily for maximum return on investment.

What's the matter with all you queers, I'm not asking any of you to devolve anything in an open forum, and none of your financials are really anyone's business, now is it? so there is no need to be defensive here...

I live a very modest life, I'm comfortable, and so is my otherhalf Bob, we both are, it is, what it is, there is no hidden meaning in any of this, and that was not my intent at all here, selective, I don't think so, it's only that way if you want it to be, so it doesn't have to be that why

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"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Health care is expensive and I'm afraid for my future.I'm thinking of emigrating to Norway. (But their language is a bit difficult. ).This week I'll be leaving 2000 USD to my dentist alone. So, my travel to India will be canceled. Money may not buy you happiness, but it surely can give you some health back.

Its never "enough" in the sense that the more money you make the more expenses you have. Now that I make more, I have more things to pay for such as a mortgage, student loan debt, car payments, etc etc.

As far as a $ amt that also depends where you live. I own a small house built 100 years ago in Seattle. Now say I lived in Texas, for as much as I spent on my house I could buy a huge McMansion with a pool and acerage. But here in Seattle its quite modest.

I'm fortunate that my employer pays for mine and my partners healthcare. To me thats more important that most other things. I place a higher value on that than most other things.

Exactly, we do what we can to live in this world, and YES, I have co-pays for meds & doctors visits, and let's not even talk about seeing any specialist especially outta your network we all live with-in our means, whatever that may be

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"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

I thought of this thread when I saw this story about a family of three living on $20,000/yr. Their house is actually nice and decorated well. The key is that they are talented enough to find "trash" and repurpose it. I may have missed it, but I don't think they said whether they rent or own---if so, how did they buy the home. Or, how they pay for insurance on their truck. They did say they get healthcare from the state due to their income.

So Does anyone have any idea what it really takes to live comfortably and @ what level of income? please answer this question with an open mind, and be objective with your replays, it's different for all of us, and were all @ different income levels,

I lived in NYC in the 80's after college with take home of 50k+ one year and then 990USD a month take home the next two years -- because I switched professions. What is comfortable is extremely subjective. 12K take home a year - was barebones but I was happy and felt secure - because I was young (and also insured in every possible way, by the way, because i had the executives benefits package but a shit salary!)

So I think there are two different important points to personally evaluate to answer your question1) do i feel comfortable on my income - can I eat, live, entertain myself comfortably2) do I feel secure.

If sometimes I feel that a period of my life is materially not comfortable, there has been the compensation of feeling secure, not in danger, optimistic

Sometimes I feel that I am comfortable but do not at all feel secure.

Feeling that there is way not enough money AND that one is not secure, that is the worst.

Tednlou makes good points. If you feel all right with what you've got AND feel secure about the present and future, then that is a decent state to be in.

______________

But your question adds the angle "for hiv+ people" and I think it becomes so complicated. What is enough is being in a situation where the medical care and treatments are accessible for the long run. So I am quite sure a lot of people who have incomes from middle class to working poor, and that is quite an income range, have very heavy anxieties about how to afford an HIV diagnosis and treatment. And it really is rather special these days as a diagnosis. Because the carrot is that with constant medical surveillance and when time, constant treatment, it is a chronic manageable condition and you'll live your long life, working and retiring just as otherwise planned. Cost - 20? 30? 40? thousand a year. Forever... What anxiety, how is this going to be paid.

And we don't even discuss our financial obligations to partners, family or our own children if we are parents.

« Last Edit: December 18, 2011, 07:15:03 AM by mecch »

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ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Den asked a really good question (literally read my mind), and Mecch gave nicely detailed answer. My ID specialist's comment that HIV is "very expensive" tells me that everyone has had that same thought, i.e. how can I / would I factor in (or survive) on my income while carrying a chronic medical condition? What happens if I get too sick to work? Den's fortunate to be in a relationship, but I'm not, and I still see myself as the main person carrying not only myself but my family. Mecch's reference to anxiety hits the nail right on the head - we all want to survive in this world, at least live reasonably, but unless health care and medications and specialists fall from the sky, we have to worry about those expenses. Losing a job is a huge hit for many people, but for those with chronic medical conditions, it is even worse. God bless all of you folks who can make it on low income, and damn those politicians (Chris Christie) who slash health benefits to chronically ill people who aren't millionaires.

Yes, I can live the way I do now w/ my partner, 2 incomes are a lot better than one, could I live as good without my partner's income, yes, but I would have to seriously down-size and cut-back a few thingsand I hate being alone, hell I'd find someone with an income, even if we weren't an item, that would work too

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"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

I look at that question more in terms of how much savings do you need to feel financially secure and satisfied with your lifestyle, so you would feel you can retire.

It's much more expensive for those of us in single person households (I live in a 275 sq ft studio apt. that's really cheap for where I live at $735/month) I believe I need at least 800K in net worth. Actually that's much lower than most financial analysts would recommend, especially given HIV infection and the likely possibility we will all be shopping for our own insurance instead of having the luxury of Medicare in the future. At 5% interest, that's 40K/annually while leaving the principal alone. Eventually, inflation will make it necessary to begin to dip into it.

I look at that question more in terms of how much savings do you need to feel financially secure and satisfied with your lifestyle, so you would feel you can retire.

It's much more expensive for those of us in single person households (I live in a 275 sq ft studio apt. that's really cheap for where I live at $735/month) I believe I need at least 800K in net worth. Actually that's much lower than most financial analysts would recommend, especially given HIV infection and the likely possibility we will all be shopping for our own insurance instead of having the luxury of Medicare in the future. At 5% interest, that's 40K/annually while leaving the principal alone. Eventually, inflation will make it necessary to begin to dip into it.

Oh my lord. Proof of my observation that these things are relative. Suze Ormond would never look at my financials, not least because I don't have any "financials". LOL. 800K net worth would be dream, to me. Yet I see its the figure that makes you feel secure....

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ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Suze Ormond would like me, cause I don't own a swinging dick ANYTHING, and if I do use a credit card, I paid it off every month, also I got a little bitty nest-egg saved up, for emergencies, you just never know if you'll need it someday, ( in-case bob throws me out on my ass) so far so good, always a good idea to protect your self financially

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"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Denby, I'm jealous! You're so responsible. I would love to get the Suze Orman seal of approval! "Girlfriend" would hang up on me without even bothering to lecture! I just starting watching a year ago. I wish she was around when I was 30 or at least I wish I was more responsible starting back then.

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ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Not sure if you still live in NYC, but I can't see how anyone could survive there without a sizable income/nest egg unless you are lucky enough to live in a rent controlled apt. (not rent stabilized)

It frightens me to think how many people 40+ are completely unprepared for what lies ahead financially. They'll be working until they drop dead... if they can get work in their later years. Most people don't even know that they will be lucky if they get more than $18K/yr from soc security. One friend of mine says he just doesn't think about it and just plans to live off of soc security. I think we're going to see a lot of homeless elderly people in the future.

Denby, I'm jealous! You're so responsible. I would love to get the Suze Orman seal of approval! "Girlfriend" would hang up on me without even bothering to lecture! I just starting watching a year ago. I wish she was around when I was 30 or at least I wish I was more responsible starting back then.

Denby, I am jealous too!! I am nothing like you meaning I should be like you. It doesn't matter how much I make, I could NEVER save. I could spend hundreds of dollars in a few days just to live with 20 bucks for the following 2 weeks. Salary is irrelevant for me which is a shame. I should be more responsible. I am in my thirties now and I should do it NOW. I have got my student/family loan to pay back! But, I have other issues to deal with and speeding money is one way to cope with things. Well, that's just my excuse. I am a spender pre gay (may be not so much) but pre hiv also.

Now, I need to go back to listen to other wise people who are good with finances. What are the tips? Well being able to see and and think about the future is important. I need to start thinking about the rainy days and the costs of meds etc. from now on. Well, I am saying this now because I am done with 'spending days' this week

Phil, bought up a good point, its not how much one makes, its how much one saves. That's the idea. I think..

My landlord wants to raise my rent by 8.6%... I new putting in new kichen would lead to that. That's a 16% increase in six years.

Oh come on miss P you should have seen that one coming, I wanted to say something about all of the upgrades to your place, but I figured you find that one out for yourself, if you don't wanna pay that increasethen MOVE, of course you probably won't get anything like you have now for a cheaper price

and to all you other queers, I can save cuz, I don't have any bills or debt, however if I buy a brand new Truck like I want to then, I'll be stuck with a car-note, for 60 months and my savings will take a huge hit just paying a down-payment on that new truck, so just cuz something is new, doesn't mean that it's better, you all know it will cost you MORE in the long-run

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"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Oh come on miss P you should have seen that one coming, I wanted to say something about all of the upgrades to your place, but I figured you find that one out for yourself, if you don't wanna pay that increasethen MOVE, of course you probably won't get anything like you have now for a cheaper price

Nice way to show a bit of compassion from someone that lives on a fixed income -- a bit hypocritical to say the least. I didn't ASK my landlord to put in a new kitchen -- the sink collapsed and ruined the part underneath the sink. All he needed to do is put a piece of plywood under the damaged part -- he put in all new cabinets to be able to raise the rent.

Is there a reason you're so abysmal bitter about both life and myself? Seriously. I live on a fixed income akin to you -- BUT I ALSO DON'T HAVE A PARTNER TO SHARE IN MY EXPENSES.

Expect to be un-friended from facebook by the end of the day, along with your cohorts who talk about me behind my back on other's walls that you don't think I'm privy to. And yes I know about that.

Don't get your panties in a wad, nobody is talking about you, maybe that's your whole problem, and please don't come-outta-bag on me, you know better than that now my father warned me about queers like you, but I never listen to him, only to find out after he died, that he liked queers too, just like I do, I'm a cocksucking QUEER too, I'm just older than you, and I happen to like you, so get older yourself dear

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"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

I assume you negotiate. I'm dreading when my lease is up, as rents are skyrocketing in Lon due to people putting off buying.

He thinks my rent is too low compared to the other units in the building even though I'm on the top floor and my apartment isn't as nice as all the others. Plus he's only raised the rent one in six years, but that's because it was in shitty state to begin with. My parents say to negotiate as well... but to be nice about it. I need time to cool off by this evening

Still suck that he gave me warning only 10 days before the 1 January rent is due, don't you think? I'm a month-to-month anyway.

Still suck that he gave me warning only 10 days before the 1 January rent is due, don't you think? I'm a month-to-month anyway.

Sorry to hear about this Ms. P.My rent just went up $10 a month - but that is first increase I have had in two years and I still pay a fairly low rent for the location.

In addition to negotiating, have you thought about doing a 12-month lease? I know that my rent would be $30 a month higher if I did month-to-month - but having a 12-month lease (even though it forces me to stay put for the 12-months) gives me a lower monthly rent as the landlord knows that they don't have to worry about the apartment being vacated for at least 12-months.

Mitch, I moved to Switzerland 14 years ago, change careers (yet again). That worked out rather well, but didn't plan well in my early 40's cause i was in a couple and double income, he 10 years younger, figured i could start socking it away "in my mature years" when his income was reaching its max. Just now its been 5 years of hell, hideous divorce. Job changes. Battling to get back to a full time contract still going on, rebuilding as a single guy. Seroconversion. etc etc.

Since, wake up, you need to watch SUZE religiously and start planning man. Don't you have a master's? You must get yourself a comfortable life, plan for mature years.

All you nellies talking about 10 percent here, 15 percent there, rent hikes. (Just kidding, anything is impossible on tight incomes!) But just thought I would share: One day in 1996 i got a 100% rent hike in Brooklyn, and there wasnt JACK SHIT I could do about it. Just move out.

Here in Swiss cities, go try to rent in the current market and its the same as if you would rent on Park Avenue, Monte Carlo, or whatever the luxury street is in Moscow. So freakin expensive and there are very very few apartments at any price, let alone dream of finding the bargain. Zurich, Geneva, Lausanne, Bern, its all the same. Like renting space on the International Space Station! Back when i was in college I had a bf from geneva, a different one, long before I moved here. I just saw his apartment listed last week for 5,800. He was priced out years ago, of course..

I dont know when my deal is going to collapse. I don't want to think about it. But yeah, I better plan. My building just got bought by the one who bought the one next door 2 years ago. They completely yuppified that one....... Dramatic architectural lighting, a copper roof. They were gold-leafing the lobby today, I noticed! WTF? And totally pretentious because that lobby NEVER saw gold leaf in its hey day, it was for the average middle class, I'd say, in 1900.

Next year I'm going to inform myself about the reality of the retirement I face here. I think it might have to be closing up shop in my own apartment and moving into a room in an old folk's home. Maybe that will be fine. At least, I'm open to change.

I also starting thinking about what I could prepare for now, before 50, to make professional level income after forced retirement as a professor. I have no idea?!

I was talking to the bakery owner today. She doesn't have to retire. But lots of jobs have forced retirement ages.

« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 05:11:37 PM by mecch »

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ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Sorry this is Happening David . When I was living in chicago my rent went up $10 every year . I was primarily living off disability so that made it even tougher .

six years here -- $13.33 increase year year (thought not all at once)

Should I complain or not? A similar until goes for +$800 or so he says, so mine would be $630. That said, mine is not in as good a shape -- it's not been painted in five years, it has wall-to-wall carpet and everyone else has wood floors, I only have a shower and they have bathtubs, no dishwasher, and no tile floor (hello linoleum).

I moved in here a mere 2 months before the landlord bought the building so there was NO renovation work every done.

Yes, I'm on a month-to-month because my first year lease is done -- but *hello* it costs a lot of money to move to another apartment much less when you live in a fourth floor walk up.

Also, my apartment is convenient to the subway which means a great deal to me when I have health issues -- like multiple surgeries, etc.

However, I also have a bit of good news to share on the monetary side. Near the end of each year where I work, our budget goes up for review and approval for the coming year. As always, we include the projected revenues, expenses, adjusted merit increases (if possible) and--after wishing upon a star and praying to the tooth fairy--recommended bonuses.

Well, the Board approved our budget (since we did well this year) and I was able to inform staff that they would not only get merit increases this year but an end of year bonus. The money was direct deposited into staff personal bank accounts today. When I went around with confirming notices, I never heard some many toothless "Thank you Jeebbus!"

P.S. I will not be on solid foods for awhile until I get my new teefies.

P.P.S. The above accounting is true with humor thrown in for fun and flavor.

« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 07:26:30 PM by OneTampa »

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"He is my oldest child. The shy and retiring one over there with the Haitian headdress serving pescaŪto frito."

Should I complain or not? A similar until goes for +$800 or so he says, so mine would be $630. That said, mine is not in as good a shape -- it's not been painted in five years, it has wall-to-wall carpet and everyone else has wood floors, I only have a shower and they have bathtubs, no dishwasher, and no tile floor (hello linoleum).

I moved in here a mere 2 months before the landlord bought the building so there was NO renovation work every done.

Yes, I'm on a month-to-month because my first year lease is done -- but *hello* it costs a lot of money to move to another apartment much less when you live in a fourth floor walk up.

Also, my apartment is convenient to the subway which means a great deal to me when I have health issues -- like multiple surgeries, etc.

I also attend AMG each year, or almost each year, first and foremost because I get to see the great people who have become part of my AMG family. It also affords me the opportunity to see parts of the country I might not see on my own.

But, to attend this, I save my money for most of the year. Rather than charging it, I pay cash for everything. Sometimes that limits how much I might spend or what I buy, but I also get home without a bunch of bills hanging over my head.

I am not wealthy in monetary measurements, and I doubt I ever will be. But, I know many people who live on very little money, and I count myself lucky to be able to do all that I do.

Gees, almost seems like this thread should be in the old geezers section... None of will ever be as rich as we want to be or as poor as we could be. We LTS have made it this far and we all know how to take it in stride and deal with each potential crisis that comes along.

I started saving and cost cutting immediately upon my return from Seattle. I've kinda become a spendthrift. Starting to enjoy the hunt for the bargain too. AMG week is the one thing I've promised to myself from here on out if humanly possible. It meant that much.

Wolfie

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Complacency is the enemy. Challenge yourself daily for maximum return on investment.

I like Mark live in NM, but I live a county with the most expensive rents & mortgages, back in Nor-cal I had a very nice 1300 sqt, foot split-level condo w/ a garage, I got it back in 90 when I made good money, but after 8 yrs. of illness and AIDS, in 98 I had to walk awayfor that place

I didn't make enough on SSDI to pay for it anymore I had to file chapter 7 bankruptcies, and @ the time was living off little more than 15K a yr. even with Bob's income we still couldn't hang on to it anymore, so we packed up what we had & moved to ABQ, and we've been here every since (9yrs. now)

We are just OK, but we cannot afford to buy a house, and we don't wanna do this @ 55 yrs. oldthat ship has already sailed for us, and we rent, but we just get by they haven't rased our rent in 6 yrs. I doubt they ever will, we live in a modest 1200 Sq.foot 2 bedroom condo-style Apt. with no garage, we like it, but it's not new it was built in 1980, and I mean everything in it is old, and not updated @ all, we have heat, and a swap-cooler, it's cozy and we like it for now......

So I know what loss is, I have suffered a lotta loss, and it smacks to high heaven every-time I look back on what I had, but, I can live on what we make & we get by, and were lucky we can go on Vacation once a yr.were not rich, but we get by on what we both make.......David for what it's worth, I hope you can @ least get your landlord to work with you on your place, cause, I know how that is, so your not alone, there are a lot of us that live the way we do, but, we all get by somehow ok, I just poured out my heart & soul here, so I'm gonna go cry now

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"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

he gave me warning only 10 days before the 1 January rent is due, don't you think? I'm a month-to-month anyway.

That really bites! His greed is getting the best of him for sure. Your place is convenient to Center City as well as the South Street area so I know you dont want to give that up. The 10 day thing is a bit unreasonable.

I thought I was poor when I was making around 100K/yr Dennis. Talk about a recalibration! Whew!!! The lean years just after all that ended did one thing for me for sure, made me appreciate just how far I could stretch a buck.