Sunday, March 21, 2010

Health Care Reform

On the floor of the House, Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee told a story of a 32-year-old lawyer who went to an emergency room three times but was sent away with antibiotics, and eventually died. He probably had crappy agency health insurance.

If you ever tried to buy individual coverage in a high cost state like Illinois or New York, it is nearly impossible. God forbid you have a pre-existing condition. This is a very good bill for the self-employed.

How horrible! I read of a young man in his 20s who died of a tooth infection because he didn't have dental insurance. So sad to see people dying from illnesses that could be cured with a simple doctor's visit.

Healthcare and student loan reform on one bill....historic....fixing Bush's f*cked economy, up next.....f*ck the Rethuglicans....they should be sprayed with anti-roach and rodent spray (take your braindead Tea Baggers with you!)

Thank goodness Judd Gregg (R-NH, and others likeminded, have been active in the debate. NO ONE disagrees with the concept of refining the current system to make it more "consumer friendly" not pro bono available. The core issue is how is it being executed, the methodology etc. The "politics of inclusion" pounded by people like Meeks and Towns etc of NYC has NOTHING to do with finance and accounting techniques to make it work effectively and efficiently, without damages to individuals, and without preferences for one minority group over another. I guess we are going to repeat what we did with ACORN'S argument of 1990s as to housing -the precise logic pushed on the banks by Barney Frank (and company) and which had a direct causal link to the economic fall-out since 2007. We are building another big McMansion and/or bubble with this legislation's specific terms, rather than approach it with a less damaging set of techniques, built on smart economics and finance. Doing in healthcare what brought this country down in housing, just whipping out that tax payers' back credit card (metaphor) not unlike those no money down mortgages mrely for the sake of the "politics of inclusion" (Meeks) just guarantees another bubble, but lots of jobs of government employee and government unions. My only disagreement is with the way it is being done, not the overall concept. I've worked with plenty of contract attorneys who have no health insurance and face major medical issues. They need an alternative. But the Democrats refuse to admit it accounting and finance issue. They'd rather use the politics of class warfare, and racial politics, and hire political theatre hags to "act up" at rallies in D.C. such as this weekend to make it look like anyone who disgrees with the methodology, or President Oz, is a racist. Very transparent. Everyone's arguments as to "why" it must change makes sense, it is the "how".Why didn't they slam the AMA, the hospital system/lobby, and pharmaceuticals, going to price controls. I forgot, that might endanger the membership of the hospital unions wouldn't it?

No administration ever more corrupt than Obama. He's a crook but no one can say so openly because they will be called anti black.From Geithner to Bernanke Goldman Sachs is running and sucking the country dry.Meawhile Obama and Ramm Emmanuel laughing at you stupid voters.

Heh, could not agree with you more about this administration. That said, I believe this type of corruption and horse trading has occurred on many many other occassions in Washington, D.C. It comes with the territory. How about LBJ or FDR, not to mention the Kennedy boys? The difference is that the media today makes it more transparent, but only because there are more media outlets. What is alarming to me is that the Republicans are not nearly as street wise, as saavy, nor as cunning or shrewd as is this crowd from Chicago. Even Bill Clinton has been throwing around the barbs-- recently at the annual Washington, DC Gridiron Dinner, wherein he slammed Rahm Emmanuel et al., but being ever so careful to avoid sharing his thoughts about his wife's boss, the big Oz. The game isn't going to change in D.C., the opposition just has to be smarter and more ruthless. Maybe it is time for the voters to be more ruthless and shrewd.

If you allow students to take out unlimited GradPlus loans + discharge all of their debt after 10 years, get ready for a tuition explosion like you have never seen. If you think Valvoline/Matasar/Joan King are well off now, just wait. They won't just be rich, but filthy rich, the new corrupt oil tycoons.

I am a big critic of the president from the left. There's a difference between being a critic and being nuts. The Tea Partiers such as yourself are nuts. I hardly expect you to admit to that. But, everyone else thinks of you as such.

Anyone skipping over the Bush administration to complain about the "corruption" of FDR and LBJ is nuts considering what our society gained from their policies.

Your assumption that I am a big defender of the president makes an asshole out of you.

And, your comment about the SS, which was a right wing ideological belief called fascism, is ironic given your own political beliefs are given toward fascist merging of the state and corporations.

Correction: I should say you Tea Partiers are ignorant tools of those who would like to merge the state with corporations. Many of the groups that are a part of the birther and Tea Party movements are funded by large corporate interests like Sallie Mae. I fully expect you to defend that because you again are nuts. You don't think of self interest at all so paying higher costs because some corporation is adding cost to a process without any additional value is something you are okay with because it is the "market" (which is meaningless term coming from one of you)/

As to my references to FDR and LBJ, their being no different in their tactics than the present administration, your logic is strange. That they used the same "tactics" to achieve the goal is precisely the point, regardless of what was their message, their goal substantively, or the outcome. The point is that in each case, those dudes new how to use cunning and how to be shrewd, playing a darn good chess game. My comment is directed to the fact that today's opposing parties' leadership do not have the identical talent. Speaking about Bush in reference to where we presently are on this healthcare funding method (not coverage is rather pointless, since it was ,ugh, Barney Frank and Greespan (and company) who led us to the banking/housing debacle on the theory "housing was good for everyone" e.g. level playing field in appeances (keeping up with the Jones' and "politics of inclusion") regardless of whether or not the new houseowner could pay for it - no differently than the approach used by the Democrats on healthcare now.

anyone who disagrees with expansion of government health care is a racist.

How about being sick of paying for deadasses who refuse to educate or better themselves without blaming everyone with a brain as to their predicament.

Expansion of the federal government = corruption, period. More (of our) money to steal.

Moreover, in that the right to keep and bear arms is an explicitly enumerated Constitutional right, perhaps the federal government should subsidize the purchase for its sitizens of firearms, as it now will (again) do for the concocted "right" to an abortion (which is basically a racist eugenics tactic -- See 'Freakanomics").

No one disagrees with "coverage", the issue is how is it being funded and structured. Moreover, effective healthcare need not be run by the federal government, and incentives should have been developed to make it attractive for the private sector. With true market competition and allowing competition across state lines, prices could be driven down. Why don't we apply antitrust to healthcare, banking, and insurance. The current form of having the federal government running healthcare is a pure power grab by the Democrats and unions. Let the free market drive the prices down. Attack the hospital systems and lobbyists, the pharmceuticals, the healthcare unions, and the AMA. Actually have effective regulatory enforcement. The federal government owning and running a healthcare system is a train wreck. The issue is about funding and methodology, not mere coverage, nt a backdoor path to increase taxation and "re-distribute wealth" and continue the attack on those who have privilege and can actually generate capital and ultimately create jobs. No one disagrees with access and coverage, as long as....everyone should pay, no one should get a freebie, from the bottom up, but access should be designed better than it is today. One is NOT a racist if one thinks the federal government is a bad idea. Using the federal government to run healthcare is like creating a new version of the U.S. Postal System (metaphor) to run healthcare. One is not a racist to disaggree with the Big Oz on his methodoogy or to disagree with his philosophy of wealth redistribution. I guess to the prior writers, if you disagree with our great leader, no matter how ridiculous his ideas, one is a racist. Gee, I'd hate to see the quality of your educational background or whether or not you even applied yourself to great opportunities you may have been given in life. You seem a bit narrow minded, and as if you lack broad quality life experience with that sort of logic.

Nazis were right wingers. Fascism grows out of right wing ideological views. The irony being that ignorant right wingers posting here don't seem to realize that they are talking about their own ideological underpinnings rather than the president's neo-liberal economic views. And "neo-liberal" is not leftist, but what Reagan practiced in terms of economic policy making. Sadly, I feel the need to explain that to the idiot who keeps posting the Tea Party comments. I expect such historical ignorance from someone who didn't go to law school rather than someone who did. I can see why some of you were only able to get into lower tier law schools. You are not that bright.

The insurance reform is what Romney in MA passed as well as conservatives were pushing before Obama pushed it. Now it is "super liberal" although really it is not. It's mostly Republican policy making pre-Tea Party crazy GOP.

You also have no idea what you are talking about regarding "coverage.' But, then given your lack of knowledge basic history one can not expect you to actually understand comparative health care policy.

For the non-idiot, the reason for government health is not about wealth distribution. It is about cost containment. We pay twice as much for outcomes that are worse than the rest of the world. It eats up 18 percent of GDP versus under 10 percent in Europe. They have better outcomes than we do, including for ethinic minorities. The point of changing the system wasn't about your boogiemen over someone else getting ahead of you. It was about making the system works. You are fucking idiots. You deserve what you get.

Strange the prior writer assumes anyone who disagrees is a member of the Tea Party. In fact, far from it, dude, pure libertarian. As far as ssuming 3rd tier law school, you also have that wrong dude. Neo-liberal, hello. I don't think so, I think "narrow minded" and unable to see out of your own way or think out of the box clearly. You must have grown up in NYC, and clearly have experienced nothing else in life. Your lack of real experience is life is extremely transparent. Just spewing the P.C.

Europe does NOT HAVE better outcomes than us. Heh, Dude, if you have ever been a patient in that system, you would not be stating this. Hello, we have the best reseach and the best in training, "but for" too much reliance on technology when determining a patient's medical profile, condition, and prognosis. The practice of medicine is an art, and relies upon the human touch and instinct. Physicians trained in Europe and Latin America oftentimes run circles around American physicians when it comes to using instinct, and they oftentimes will go outside of the box and risk take regardless of what an insurance company says. But, that is the cream of the crop amongst European physicians, and generally they are here in the U.S. practicing either at Yale, Harvard, Hopkins, Michigan, Stanford, Texas, or Berkeley - their best aren't even staying in their alleged "superior system" that you ignorantly call it. Thyey think it is better practicingh medicine here in this system. Hello. They fight to come into our system. About this I have personal knowledge, trust me.

I assume the arguments you are throwing out are tea party arguments because they are what the tea partiers are saying.

Those arguments represent roughly 20 percent of the population. This isn't theory. This is polling data. Indeed, if you are not a tea partier you are still a small minority of the electorate who oddly have much in common with the tea party argument.

And posting under multiple posts pretending not to be the same guy each time is equally not helping you case.

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Your argument over statist might actually have more value if you could draw historical analogies that didn't make you look stupid for making them. Again, the Nazi comparator, when Nazis were right wingers. The fact you didn't know that means you about as bright as the Tea Partiers, who try to compare Obama to Hitler. It shows a fundamental ignorance of history and makes everything else you write suspect.

This idiot says fascism/state power is from the right wing.Don't tell me another left wing Obama-mama.All dictatorships in the world today are left wing, including China, North Korea, Vietnam, and Cuba.

I am a New York temp. All my temp friends and me voted for Obama. He's smart and experienced, not like Pailin. He has a booming voice and is diverse. All my friends and I feel exactly the same way. Obama is smart, not Rush Limbaugh. To us Rush Limbaugh is embarrassing. We voted for a black.

Yes Pailin is no good because she is a successful woman from Alaska. My New York liberal friends and me all look down at Alaska, It's flyover countrty, We are from the city and very hip. We go to all the village clubs and wave to our friends. And run into actors from Entourage. It's so cool! We love Obama everything bad in the world was done by Bush. Obama is something new and different. The flavor of the month.

Yeah Pailin is no good she's from Alaska - yuk.None of my law school friends work in Alaska. There are no cool clubs and TMZ actors around there.We live in the City. Has to be in the right neighborhood near Nobu and NYU.We all voted for Obama.Oh and also Pailin is Christian. We believe in diversity but religion is so 19th century. My professors told me this many times.

Except Islam and Buddhism are OK and cool. Only white religions are oppressive.Hey look at me.Listen to me.

Keep talking. Your latest post certainly does not help refute my claim that you are a modern day know-nothing.

The only people who ever claim that fascism is left leaning are those right wingers who want to disavow corporatism (marriage of corporate interest with state such that the state is controlled by corporate interests) as a natural outgrowth of right wing doctrines. Yet, historically, almost all cases of fascism arise from the right.

It is not the only right wing pathway (there are multiple others like neo-conservatism), but it is one of them.

The bill is everything that the GOP advocated until last year for "health care reform" except it did not include tort reform. It is the Romney plan, a Republican governor.

Many of the policies have their ideological foundation in right wing policy making. You don't have to believe me. No one does. Look it up.

Including the working definition of fascism:

"Fascists seek to organize a nation on corporatist perspectives; values; and systems such as the political system and the economy.[5][6] Scholars generally consider fascism to be on the far right of the conventional left-right political spectrum,[7][8][9][10][11][12] although some scholars claim that fascism has been influenced by both the left and the right."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#cite_note-3

In the U.S., the rise of fascism has been occurring over the last 30 to 40 years through the right. First, with neo-liberal economic policies, and in the last 10-15, the attempt by both parties to shift to corporatism (defined here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism)

You can't fight or talk about what you don't understand. There is no left in the U.S. There is neo-liberalism (laissez faire capitalism), various populists movements and corporatism. These are the operative forces controlling economic policy making. Under a left ward view, the state would be redistributing wealth amongst all. Under corporatism, the goal is for corporations to control the state. Government functions performed by private contractors, regulatory capture (regulations set forth by the corporations that the regulations are meant to regulate), tax breaks for ventures like public stadiums, etc.

Eventually, what happens is what you saw in 2008- the start of kleptocracy where the corporation steals from the state.

The underlying issue is not that the state is taking over. It is that the state has become a proxy for the large corporate interest taking over like with the recent Citizens United case (a product of decades of right wing ideologues packing the courts through the efforts of both parties) so speech is now equated with how much money you have and that's it. No other Constitutional concepts matter as or balanced against the monetary interests.

Palin recently admitted (apparently again you are too ignorant to know this) that while she was whining about socialized medicine she went to Canada (a system of socialized medicine) to obtain better treatment than in her native state. The same is true of Rush in another country where he said he would like to move to, but it turns out they have a system of socialized medicine. Your ignorance is stunning. You are embarrassing yourself? I am starting to question if you are even a lawyer.

Any ranking of the U.S. medical system in terms of its quality, the R&D, its teaching hospitals, and its medical schools would rank it in the top 5-10 in the world. Whgat the 37th spot is referring is healthcare deliver and access. THAT dude are separate issues from coverage, payment system etc. It is thge quality of medical care that is what should be the core issue. Frankly, this outcome guarantees that you'll be treated and seen by either a LPN P.A., or maybe not even that, unless of course they drop the standards for medical school, as they did for law school, and base it on quotas, rather then merit....then, who knows what you''ll get, just people who fit the grid, of whatever standard O decides to use for his new idea of quality healthcare...heh, maybe would could use "healers" who just went to some on-line medical school, got a degree, and then can fill a slot in one of Os clinics he'll have to put together because there are not enough physicians. This is a compte joke.

Everything I have said about the US ranking 37th or 38th in the world is something that can be proven.

The shit you are making up from your Tea Party brain about the health care system is shit you are making up. You can't prove a word of it other than repeating what politicians and people around have been saying. Piece of advice, learn to think for yourself and do a little research rather than regurgitate thinks you have heard. The fact that most Americans don't know we are 37th or 38th does not change the fact that we are. It just points out how little we understand where we are.

It is like those who think that becoming a lawyer is a ticket to riches. It is just based on ignorance. The same is true here of the quality of our health care system versus its cost.

I know I am not going to overcome a life time of your being told you are the best when you are not. But the information is out there if you ever choose to grow enough to think for yourself.

Heh, I very much think for myselk, and that is what distinquished me from you, Not only that, I have worked in the healthcare system and know about what I speak. Add to it that I am married to a physician, and I do think I know very much about what I speak. The problem with people like you is that you just give back what you read in the P.C. world, rather than actually know about what you speak. Add to the fact that I have a child with a chronic disease, and am weekly in touch with the healthcare system...heh dude, you clearly have never really experienced what the reality is like. Too long in doc world.

After you said, "I think for myself' you followed with every regurgitated wingnut point that you can think of.

The data I am pointing out to you is not commonly understood amongst most liberals much less the general population. So, trying to pretend that we are equal here is a joke.

Your working in an industry means nothing. That's like saying a lawyer knows the legal industry on a macrolevel just because they are a lawyer. By that logic, a first year associate at any given firm can be pulled aside and asked about the trajectory of the legal industry. It does not fly.

Even the silliness over PC is retarded. It means nothing but you have heard it so much that you repeat it like a good little automaton taught what to think even when it has nothing to do with the conversation. Sad.

Regarding health care, we needs to be emancipating ourselves. The house of the senate needs to be exculpicating certain prostegious members of our socity. Those that are the best snitches, need to be rewarded by massa. Period.

Let me add: The really sad part is how perfectly this parallels to the legal industry. Everyone is told outside of law how great the legal industry is, but the reality of the numbers within is very different. Everyone is told we are best health care system in the world in America, but when one stacks us up against the rest of the world- this is just American mythology. "America is the best.' This isn't to say that we can't become the best again. The point is we are slowly slipping behind other countries because the right wing of this country has captured the debate such that even the supposed left leaning president is actually advocating right wing ideological principles and people think he's a leftist. No country can survive without a balancing of interests. Right now, the corporate interests are in control so things like quality of our health care system, our banking stability and education are out of whack. It wasn't always this way. This is something that arose under Democratic and Republican presidencies since Reagan. The sad part is that while many of you get that something is wrong, you don't get how your own political leanings contribute to it. That's why I became annoyed at the FDR comment. Not because I care if there was some corruption or not , but because you can't even identity what's happening right now. You are so blinded by right wing indoctrination that you lack the ability think for yourself. It truly is sad. A great country going down the toilet over ignorance.

Glad to know things are going so well for you. 60 hours a week stuck in front of a computer. Awesome. And you're making 50/75 an hour. Wow.

I just got paid 3K for about an hour of paperwork and an apperence in front of a judge. I'm going to make another clean 2K tomorrow for saying a few magic works in front of a judge. While I'm waiting around the court house, I'll be talking to the other attorney babes there.

Looks like I'm going on an all expense paid trip to D.C. tomorrow to say a few magic words.

I figure I'll easily clear 5 this week and maybe work all of 10 hours.

Why did I go to Hofstra law??? saddled w/ all this nasty debt from such a crappy school...ugh why dont they close these 3rd tier fly by night hellholes...like those ghetto schools you see advertised on the train..so sad..i should quit while im ahead and make sandwiches @ Cosi..yay!!

Those of you kneeling at the altar of this administration, talk to me in five (5)to ten (10) years. LOL/SOL! I do not think you individually will be able to survive the obvious economic and fiscal unintended, predictable consequences (unless you have or will have a trust fund) e.g. with your load of law school debt (like mine),the fact there will be no jobs (unless you want to do poverty law and pro bono/community activism related). When the entitlement monies run out (inevitable) and the cost of healthcare causes stagnation on the economics/capital formation front (from the private sector job creation and capital generating class), and when Obama isn't around (inevitable), just where will you turn. Mom and Dad won't even be around, any potential inheritance to bail you out will be taxed up the yin yang e.g. disappear. You'll be lucky, if with a partner or married, each of you are simultaneously employed. The policy is/will be to move you onto social security earlier than you planned e.g. age 50-55, and they'll reduce the amount of monthly SSA you will be entitled to (regardless of your SSA earnings rate et al), and do so at the current UE rate, despite inflation and CPI. Your now reduced SSA (that you are forced to collect far earlier in life), will be what you can live on for the rest of your very very long life. Those monies of course will pay your mortage, your monthly car payments, your heat, your food, your telecom expenses,and other miscellaneous expenses. You'll be renting for the rest of your life. As seen in California with the current student demonstrations bc/ of California's state schools' increased tuition (created by 20 years of past increased government workers pension payments, contracts, and Californias overly generous entitlement programs negotiated in good times), there predictably will be a smaller pool of money available to fund what predictably will grow into an even more burdfensome, unsustainable government run healthcare system with higher costs, and far more government now healthcare workers and union members who will of course demand and get higher wages than those in private sector, as is now true of government workers. Metaphor is that your future of reduced benefits for SSA and healthcare direct quality (in actual treatment) benefits (not access) will be directly linked to the burdensome increased wages and over hiring in the government and healthcare sector, while there is a simultaneous decline in anything in the private sector -- to support the government healthcare and other programs they will force into stagnation and no growth (due to tax burden) the tax generating private sector and monied class (who they need to rely upon to fund their nightmare). Nothing will change in reality, the quality of your healthcare will decline, and the quality of your life in general will decline bc/ no jobs; they won't be able to fund the future construct bc/ not big enough tax base from private sector and monied class. It is a ponzi scheme that will blow up in your faces, just as is happening in California now and is happening with the SSA and UE government run systems. They are just moving things from one column to another, but letting you think it is based in a better ideology, hiding the fact that one day you'll wake up and realize how royally fxxx'd you were by the haze of the ideology. He is just "moving the ball" swiftly and distracting you with language and P.C. - which is why he is no different than Oz. Hiding behind the curtain of "x". Like Oz, trying to persuade and trick people into believing in his alleged brilliance. Seems more like the "Emperor has No Clothes". Will you still feel as you do now about this great "reconstructing" of America and O's social experiment in 5-10 years? I doubt it highly.

The USA has a great health care system, if you wealthy and have mounds of cash.

***

I believe the new system will change the relationship between employer-employee further. I don't rely on my employer for retirement; I have s/s and a 401K/IRA. Now I am no longer bound to him for health care. All he is a paycheck and I can get that anywhere.

"I believe the new system will change the relationship between employer-employee further. "

It will not change the employment based health care system much at all outside of the excise tax and a minor employer mandate (if that survived?).

I wish it did eliminate or change our present system. What the bill does is to force you to buy private sector insurance. That's the magic of "near universal coverage." Near insurance coverage rather than health care coverage.

What I wanted was the option to buy into Medicare, which if enough of us joined, would be cheap given the shift in the customer pool from old people to people of various ages.

The only reason why there is a problem with Medicare is that it only insures old people, which when you think about it would be the most expensive part of the population to insure. But, no one ever thinks about it that way.

Even with the cost of just insuring old people, Medicare is actually cheaper than private insurance in real dollars.

Thus, in theory, adding someone like me who is younger into the plan would mean a cheaper premium for me than in the private sector.

My ability buy in would have the extra value of shoring up the system because as a general rule I as a younger person need less services than an older person, and yet, I am still contributing premiums for the time when I do need services.

However, I probably have a better chance of being struck by lightening than them allowing a medicare buy in.

That's why the insurance companies, Democrats and Republicans blocked the idea- it would hurt insurance companies.

Better Coder is happy is Asian dinner-payer is into anal because that's also what he is into. Except it's usually another guy going him. But maybe this "gal" is a gender bender and really a guy who Better Coder met on gay.com.

It is strange how Americans personify their politics. Before it was Bush. Before that Clinton. Now it is Obama. What about the policies. They have not really changed much in decades. But you think they have because you got a new face pushing them. It is like the same shirt with a new label.

It doesn't matter what we say or think about the drama that unfolded in D.C. recently. The issue is pure economics and fiscal /monetary policy, domestically and globally. Point being, this is a gigantic clustafxxx, that is being justified under "social justice". Blind eye to the reality of the methodology, the funding soundness, or whether or not quality care will actually be felt (or make a real difference in their health) by most who are "covered" and have "access". There are not enough truly talented/gifted physicians to go around, there are not enough clean hospital beds, and there are not enough nurses(the latter (RN/LPNs) who actually ARE talented and gifted. They can develop any structure they want in order to provide "coverage" and access, but it will never address the core issues. This is a dog and poney show, in the name of social justice, with the unintended consequence of leading people to think they actually now have gained an asset in coverage, when in fact it will turn out no differently than what California is experiencing. It is an accountiong and tax scam, just moving the ball around. The better solution would have been to offer catastrophic insurance coverage for serious illness and hospitalization at reasonable rates, and allow competition across state lines. The real expenses hit when there hits a catastrophic, and not everyone should be forced to bear the brunt of everyone's catastrophic..should havebeen narrowly tailored and there should have been better drafting with better alternatives put on the table for consideration. But O's social justics won over real quality healthcare and common sense. Just an academic who should eithe have been a Jesuit, a MInister, or Head of Peace Corps or the U.N., not President of the Unted States. He has the wrong job.

Bloomberg is board with those bloggers others' attack as being Tea Partier.Hmm... IN fact, Bloomberg's objections are no different than many herein who "disagree" with what unfolded this weekend. Hmm. It is rather funny.

Don't you idiots understand why the progressive liberals support such disgusting procedures like abortion? It emanates from the eugenics movement. Progressive liberals are inherently racist and do not want underclasses to reproduce. Abortion affects underclasses in overwhelming percentages.

Its actually counter-intuitive. One would think that the purported "racist" conservatives should be pro-abortion for this reason. However, one thing I can say about pro-life Conservatives. They are eminently more prinicpled than the closet racist pro-abortion crowd.

Yeah, I mentioned how Palin was busy attacking "socialist medicine" while going to Canada to obtain "socialist medicine" because it was better than what she received here. Some idiot along the thread goes into some odd diatribe about New York versus Alaska. When I pointed out the story to whoever wrote that diatribe, they moved on to the next diatribe. Nuts does not begin to describe the right in this country. The exact plan that Romney passed a few years back- a right leaning plan that includes restricts on abortions in their minds a) is eugenics and b) a socialist plan. It is like they are completely divorced from reality, even when it comes to their icons. There are a plenty of reasons to criticize the president, but these peo don't help anyone's case for making such arguments.

What I love about the Tea Party crowd is that you guys never have anything to say and you basically operate from the primitive brain. Really. You beat your chest and show up to town hall meetings armed with guns and ram your planes into federal buildings.

Can you even rationalize any of that with the surrounding circumstances? What does arming yourself have anything to do with treating the uninsured? Are you afraid that the poor person is going to get better and then come to your house and steal your stereo?

It's not like you people have valid arguments for anything. If you want to cling to the words of some op. ed piece in a newspaper and think that you will be penniless in the next two months thanks to health care, need I remind you that it's all written by the same people who thought that home prices would go up for all eternity and Al Quaeda was great friends with Saddam Hussein. I too can sit there and pull facts out of my ass thanks to the game of telephone.

And the truth is, about every single industrialized country has universal health care and it appears that none of them have fallen apart because of it! What do you want instead if America is that horrible? Do you want to live in Ethiopia and deal with War Lords stealing all of your food? Do you want to go live in Afghanistan and have to dodge explosives on the way to the store? Do you want to go live in China and work in a sweatshop? Where in the world do you whinebags want to live where you think life will be so much better? At least when I threaten to leave the country, I can name places I can potentially trade up in living standards like going to Canada or Norway. You, on the other hand, can only name a place that doesn't have universal health care that doesn't double as a rat hole where you'd be sick from parasites within a month.

I feel sorry for you people who can only imagine a better world as being a deserted area in the middle of Michigan where you can your friends can go through weapons training in preparation for an assault against the Pink Elephants.

And the Jesus lovers amongst you are the worst--especially those who feel like they need to post something about the wonders of the Lord in their social profiles. How do you even begin to reconcile the teachings with Jesus with your belief that the President is a socialist idiot who has come to destroy your world? Where is the sacrifice for others? The love of the downtrodden? Are they not worthy of getting anything, or do they need to show up at your church and beg and look pitiful to get money for a new kidney and promise to let the Lord into their lives and have their souls saved? Is that what you want? Or is it because a scary black man is asking for your money and you just can't handle it?

Where is that woman who decided to have her baby after you begged her not to abort her fetus supposed to get medicine for this child? She was poor before she had the child. Big surprise, she is still poor AFTER she had the child, yet you seem surprised that she is asking for help in taking care of it. Having the baby doesn't mean you will birth a winning lottery ticket.

US health care takes a big chunk of the US GDP. US health care sucks for the average American. Corporate interests and state power have been morphing into one (the definition of fascism). And Obama is a docile house negro.

You people that think that tryants (facists) are right-wingers are morons. One of you cited Nazi Germany as an example of right-wing facism. Query: what was the name of Hitler's Nazi party?

Was it:

(a) the National Conservative Facists

(b) the National Conservtive Warmongers

(c) the National Socialist Party

(d) the Conservative Right Wingers

Also - Joseph Stalin killed more of his own people than any other tyrant (45 million). Was Mr. Stalin a right winger or left winger?

Let's also not forget Mao and the glorious communist revolution during which 25 million were killed -- where those righties or lefties killing people with whom they disagreed about the nature and scope of government.

Finally - please don't forget that the very foundations of communism and socialism are based upon a revolution of the proletariat over the bourgeousie. The very nature of leftists require destruction of the status quo, usually by any means necessary - including, without exception, violence on a massive scale.

@12:45 = proof of liberal progressive classist racism. The premise of you last paragraph is that killing future humans is better than the possibility of having to pay for their health care.

See, a developed brain would imagine that there is no limit to what an unborn child could create. Some of the most innovative, original and important people that have walked this planet came from "poor" families.

Rather, your brainwashed dogma dictates that it is only those from middle to upper class families which should be "allowed" to procreate. Again, progressive liberals are racist classists and their thinly veiled abortion stance is proof positive.

Once again, for the retarded Sarah Palin type, who keeps posting: The definition of fascism, is that it is far right wing. The definition rests on corporate interests (market power) control the state. It is the exact opposite of socialism, in which the state controls the market. Conceptually, the at any given time, every modern society will have some bit of corporatism (public-private interaction with private control) and socialist (state control over private enterprise or what might be thought of as such like health care). The difference is the way in which the power flows. Who is controlling whom. In the conservative model- the state comes to be controlled by corporate interests.

This is a simplistic construction of the idea because I don't think you can understand anything more complicated. The point is that you seem to not understand historical information. That's your choice. Know nothings are often ignorant in American by choice rather than because there is a lack of information.

Nazi germany was a right wing regime. Indeed, it has the hall marks of half the shit you post here about race. The irony is that everything you post here only proves the points being made about you being a Tea Partier. The idea that dictatorships can not rise on the right as you are trying to argue is absurd. Dictatorships rise on both the right and left.

A great place to look are in some of the countries of Asia and Latin America which have both experienced right and left wing dictatorships.

I expect you to continue to deny the existence of right wing dictatorships. BUt, notice, no one is claiming that there have not been left wing dictators such as Stalin. But it is the height of absurdity to argue that there are not right wing dictatorships like Hitler or Mussolini.

The interesting thing about history is that when you did even deeper into the past, there are far more examples of right wing anti-democratic political structures. Leftism as a doctrine only rose in the last what 150 years or so. Going back before that we had feudalism. Many argue that's what we are seeing now. The rise of modern feudalist states. For example, the health care sector being siphoned off to the private health care industry, and each of us having to pay our coin to the feudal lords of the industry. The same with banking. Etc.

These are right leaning concepts arising out of one of tendencies of aging markets where companies tend to want to dominate rather than compete. No one likes competition except for right wing ideologues who don't want to discuss reality.

Half the bitching here is about the concept of free markets. You whine because you have to compete with people in India.

Why would you think companies are any different, and they have the resources to enforce their desire.

Finally, to the idiot who wrote liberal classist. This is a contradiction in terms. But given your regurgitating right wing frames, that's not surprising. The classist would be someone working on Wall Street who thinks they deserve after nearly destroying the economy to obtain a 10 million dollar bonus. They believe their class should obtain the wealth no matter what without regard to work. That's the point of classes. To eventually siphon wealth off from the middle class to the wealthy like we are seeing now. Historically under feudalism that is how the right wing approach worked.

That is what despite his claim Burke was "conserving." ANd what lead to conservatism. The fact is you keep denying the actual history of these things. I don't deny the leftist problems of history. But you can not do the reverse. The reason why of course is that America is slowly being captured by far right ideological extremes of which you are a part.