This thread for the Camlachie Burn (though there are relevant posts in the Molly thread too).

The (regular and often severe) flooding in the Hogarth Park housing estate wasn't caused by the burn (that burn is the Carntyne Burn by the way) - it was caused by hydraulic incapacity in the sewerage system. Scottish Water constructed a large storage tank in the park back in 2005 to solve the problem and the estate hasn't suffered any further flooding since.

Cheers Steve! Of course, Lightburn makes PERFECT sense now! Will head off to peruse the threads.

Yeah, the house I live in now was one of the ones hit by flooding back in 2002, and the tank was installed in the park outside the front door. The problems are much easier now, but there was still the myth knocking round that the Molendinar was involved somewhere. I think even Scottish Water investigated it at one point in proceedings.

SomeRandomBint wrote:Cheers Steve! Of course, Lightburn makes PERFECT sense now! Will head off to peruse the threads.

Yeah, the house I live in now was one of the ones hit by flooding back in 2002, and the tank was installed in the park outside the front door. The problems are much easier now, but there was still the myth knocking round that the Molendinar was involved somewhere. I think even Scottish Water investigated it at one point in proceedings.

I visited the Hogarth Park housing estate during and after many of the flooding incidents it suffered (I still have video footage and photographs of some of the incidents), however the incident on 30th July 2002 was by far the worst - I spent several hours there at various points between the afternoon and early hours of the following morning. The depth of water at the bottom of Hogarth Gardens was incredible - Hogarth Drive was badly affected as well, though more by the flow of water through the properties than its actual depth.

We (Scottish Water - I work for them) always knew that the sewer was at fault so the (Carntyne) burn never came into our thoughts in terms of possible cause - I was heavily involved in the investigation up until just prior to the design stage of the flood alleviation scheme.

Ah! Fortunately (or unfortunately) my Mum, who lived here before me, was on holiday when the floods struck. One of the houses right at the bottom of Hogarth Gardens, which I'm led to believe was the worst hit in the estate, as it's the lowest point.

Of course, everything to do with the investigation came as hearsay from my Mother. And as she was the original source of my believing the Molendinar ran under the houses, then make of that what you will! No wonder I've been believing duff info for the last 30 years!

Looking at the info on here and on other places, I couldn't see how it COULD be. I didn't know there was a Carntyne Burn, though! You live and learn, eh?

SRB please note that there is a support group of HGr's who believed what their mum told them was true. It meets on the last Saturday of the month and you're more than welcome to join them. I'd advise you to stay clear from the table of bearded middle aged men who were given the Ladybird book of sex education by their mums and have stayed celibate since.

"I before E, except after C" works in most cases but there are exceptions.

THE town and lands of Ruchazie formed part of the estate of the Provan, which belonged to Sir Robert Hamilton of Silvertonhill. The old manor house, with crow-stepped gables, vaulted basement and huge fire-place, still stands at Provanhall; and the initials, R. H., with the Hamilton coat of arms and the date 1647, are cut on a carved stone above the arched gateway leading into the court. The lands were acquired , by the town of Glasgow in 1667.

In 1729 the lands were laid out in the farms into which they are at present divided and were feued to various tenants. Finally, in 1767, exactly one hundred years after buying the estate, the town rouped off the feu duties, and practically ended its connection as landowner of the Provan. Glasgow, however, retained the mill of Provan and a few adjacent acres, which it still possesses as well as the water rights of Hogganfield and Frankfield Lochs, in order to secure water to drive the mills lower down the Molendinar Burn. The town still keeps a titular connection with the estate, and annually appoints a Bailie of Provan. In 1812, there was an official of this name, for a large estate needs a factor. When the town purchased the lands, William Anderson was appointed Bailie and collector of rents, and was recommended to hold courts "with all convenience." The office is now entirely honorary, and is generally given to one who has rendered important service to the city, but who no longer occupies a seat in the Council. The present custom is accordingly a relic of a duty which has long since passed from the concern of the city. (Ruchazie, JF Miller 1920)

The three ward mills were probably in existence in the twelfth century, when the burgh of Glasgow was founded, but it may be assumed that at that time the inhabitants, in accordance with the practice of a later period, got their meal groundnearer home. Molendinar Burn was always at hand, and was sufficient to supply the water-power needful for a small community, and, following the precedent set by the king with regard to royal burghs, the bishops of Glasgow must from the first have provided a mill for their burgesses. Perhaps the earliest town's mill, as already suggested, was situated near the place called Milndam, now included in Glasgow Green, or it may possibly have been the mill which was latterly added to the endowments of the sub-deanery, as the position of either of these was more convenient for the inhabitants than was the site which, in the beginning of thefifteenth century, was assigned to them for their town mill.

With regard to the erection of this mill, we fortunately have some authentic particulars. It was situated at a higher part of the same stream which supplied water-power to the subdean's mill, and adjoined the lands of Garngad possessedby the community. As set forth in a document, dated 4th February, 1446-7, and still preserved, Bishop Cameron (1426-46) allowed the burgesses to erect a mill on the Malyndoner Burn, upon the south side of Gardyngad, in consideration of their giving two pounds of wax yearly to the keeper of the lights around St. Kentigern's tomb, and it was acknowledged that the stipulation had been regularly implemented during the bishop's lifetime. This mill and its successors on the same site existed for upwards of four centuries, but little is known regarding the management of these mills till the preserved Council records begin in 1573. Six years previous to that date the common mill, kiln, and mill lands were mortgaged in security of 400 merks, borrowed at 10 per cent., the usual rate of interest at that period.

For increasing the volume of water in the Molendinar Burn some impounding and collecting works were executed at Hogganfield and Frankfield Lochs. The natural outfall of the latter loch was towards Luggie Water, but its contents were brought by an artificial cut into Hogganfield Loch, and thence sent down Molendinar Burn. The lochs were situated within the barony of Provan, belonging, in the beginning ofthe seventeenth century, to the Hamiltons of Silvertonhill, and the town seems to have had some early arrangement with these proprietors for improving the water supply. In 1625 the town treasurer paid to the laird of Silvertonhill " for thelibertie of his watter to the tounes mylnes thir thrie yeiris bygane,"

The laird's own mill of Provan being situated on the same burn, about a mile above the town's highest mill, he had the first use of the water, though any improvement of the supply would be of mutual advantage. In 1667 the Town Council of Glasgowgot entire control over the water supply by the purchase of the barony of Provan, including the lochs and mill. After they entered into possession further operations at the lochs and cast between them were carried out, and the mill, which, besidesgrinding the produce of the newly acquired barony, was a useful auxiliary to its neighbours farther down the stream, was set to a tacksman on a 19 years' lease.

Provan-mill, with its water-wheel driven by the Malyndoner as of old, though for other purposes than the grinding of grain, is now the sole survivor of those possessions which in other days and under other conditions formed the backbone of city finance.(Glasgow Memorials, Robert Renwick 1908)

Re-reading this stuff, smashing thread, I think the natural source of the Molendinar is a burn which once ran where Mossvale Road is now, east into the Hogganfield into that corner of the loch, south of the outflow from Frankfield Loch . This burn now runs in a culvert which drains to Hogganfield Pond then the loch. Although the Town Council sold the lands of Provan they held onto the lochs for milling purposes. George Miller of Frankfield made an attempt to buy Frankfield Loch claiming he was much disturbed by people coming out from Glasgow to shoot ducks, fish, & cut reeds for thatching. His offer was refused but permits were to be issued by the Town Clerk which he could inspect. Frankfield was the name of the Miller's place in Jamaica where they were involved in the sugar industry, so slavery purchased this estate and many others. The old name for the loch was the Cam (Calm) Loch, Gaelic for crooked, so very old. A small square pond adjoining the loch on the east side and much overgrown is, I think, a retting pond for flax processing, it looks like a wee harbour but only joins the loch by a drainage ditch. Garnkirk estate formed the north side of the loch, Dunlop of Garnkirk had tobacco connections so slavery again! He went bankrupt but if I remember right he transferred the ownership to his butler who years later passed it back to the family. Later in the 19th century these two estates challenged the ownership of the loch at the Court of Session but Glesga won.