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Re: °°°Naruto's Awards Winners !°°°

Manga showed it could have happened against someone with 5 in genjutsu (for those that love using databooks). Itachi got Orochimaru in genjutsu and immobilized him, and for plot reasons instead of cutting his head off Itachi chose to cut Orochimaru's hand off.

He will fall to any genjutsu though, it's a manga fact. Minato can have Itachi's genjutsu abilities, Rin'negan, and Raikage's reflexes but still fall to any genjutsu, something that even Itachi did. However, he could break out of it, the speed depending on how powerful the genjutsu is. You have no proof Minato is immune, but there's proof Minato will fall to genjutsu based on everyone being affected by genjutsu no matter what their mastery over genjutsu was.

There's no proof against Minato not being able to break out of genjutsu though, nor the speed of which he can do it. this more easily goes either way.

Re: °°°Naruto's Awards Winners !°°°

Originally Posted by jdw

For all the whining about people saying Minato is immune to genjutsu, no one has shown him succumbing to one but they assume he will fall to any genjutsu and lose his life by decapitation Just sayin' tho.

When there is no direct manga evidence, you try to make your best assumptions based on similar events in the manga. Orochimaru and Kurenai, who both skilled in genjutsu and has a 5 in the databooks were made into fools by Itachi's basic sharingan genjutsu. Minato is never mentioned to be exceptional or even good at genjutsu. If you assume that he can break out of genjutsu just because he has never been shown to be caught in one, then almost everybody in the manga is immune to genjtsu including the old dude selling ramen.

Anyways, I don't see how this has to do with the awards though. This, unlike the tournament, is suppose to be all about popularity. If Minato can find success there, I don't see why he wouldn't here.

Re: °°°Naruto's Awards Winners !°°°

Which is the problem right there. If it took anything at all more than just eye contact to end the fight with Genjutsu, and if we didn't know that kage level opponents can be one-shot by Genjutsu the it wouldn't sound so much like wanking. Minato is not always gonna start a fight with a kunai or tag set up behind or near his opponent. He's also not gonna stay invisibile from shunshin for any particular length in time. It just seems like colossal pandering to assume he both walks into a fight instantly avoiding eye contact, running around nonstop, and still succeeding in hitting his opponent with his own attacks before he locks eyes with the enemy. Especially considering anyone using Genjutsu against him usually in the arena threads are so fast that nothing short of his Hiraishin is gonna keep him from getting visual Genjutsu cast on him.

And in the unlikely chance someone defending Minato decides to be reasonable and says "Well yeah, I guess it's possible Minato could glance into a Genjutsu user's eyes at the beginning of the fight, or sometime during", that's where the real problem comes in where the literal only defense against him dying immediately after getting caught is "Well, he's Minato." As if to imply that hype alone is reason enough to believe he gets an auto-out.

Re: °°°Naruto's Awards Winners !°°°

Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood

The fact remains that he could've killed Orochimaru if he was younger, a feat that very few can claim in the manga. Sasuke himself did the smart thing and fought him when he was sick and weak.
And on top of that, he had to fight against 2 other kages that ok, weren't that strong, but I'm sure they could hold their own against any Jounin in this series, except Gai and Kakashi. So he went against 1 kage level ninja + 2 elite jounin immortal ninjas, and would've won completely if he wasn't old.
That is something very, very few can claim, and add to that the fact that he hasn't any overhaxed ability like Naruto, Minato, Itachi and Sasuke had.
Could they fight evenly against Orochimaru, the First and the Second without their haxed abilities? No, they would be slaughtered, one by one

It seems that people like to cling to that whole 'he was old, if he was young' excuse. That stopped being a legitimate excuse when we saw what ei's dad could do despite being old. Then we are left with nothing but what's been said about him. That just stopped being enough. Yes Hiruzen was great back in the day but that was back in the day. Kishimoto has painted Tobirama to be this space/time jutsu wielding, edo-tensei inventing, prejudice douche. While Hashirama had the power to match EMS Madara with Kurama, and we are just suppose to believe that Hiruzens' only major draw back in his fight with an extremely dumbed down version of them was that he was getting on in years? You can believe that all you want but I dont buy it.

The thing that gets to most people about this whole thing in my opinion is that mainly people cling to what was said about Hiruzen being the strongest kage. If you actually try to prove it however, it's a bit difficult. Who's fault is that, Masashi Kishimotos.

Re: °°°Naruto's Awards Winners !°°°

Originally Posted by ninjabot

Which is the problem right there. If it took anything at all more than just eye contact to end the fight with Genjutsu, and if we didn't know that kage level opponents can be one-shot by Genjutsu the it wouldn't sound so much like wanking. Minato is not always gonna start a fight with a kunai or tag set up behind or near his opponent. He's also not gonna stay invisibile from shunshin for any particular length in time. It just seems like colossal pandering to assume he both walks into a fight instantly avoiding eye contact, running around nonstop, and still succeeding in hitting his opponent with his own attacks before he locks eyes with the enemy. Especially considering anyone using Genjutsu against him usually in the arena threads are so fast that nothing short of his Hiraishin is gonna keep him from getting visual Genjutsu cast on him.

And in the unlikely chance someone defending Minato decides to be reasonable and says "Well yeah, I guess it's possible Minato could glance into a Genjutsu user's eyes at the beginning of the fight, or sometime during", that's where the real problem comes in where the literal only defense against him dying immediately after getting caught is "Well, he's Minato." As if to imply that hype alone is reason enough to believe he gets an auto-out.

I'm sure we can all agree this is retarded.

I agree with you, but when you see an argument like

"insert Uchiha name" defeats "insert enemy name" with just a glimpe by Sharingan eye illusion, and when you try to counter you will obtain the same response over and over, then you can't expect others to debate maturely.
So far, if I go by what Sasuke/Itachi fans said, he can, at the same time, genjutsu giant summons with just a glimpse of his Sharingan while batting away the enemy if said enemy, even if he is more than one, isn't fallen prey of his multi-person genjutsu.
Point being, Yondaime is overrated ( I admit it myself ) but you can't say that others like Sasuke or even Itachi aren't. No sir

Originally Posted by KiSwordsman

It seems that people like to cling to that whole 'he was old, if he was young' excuse. That stopped being a legitimate excuse when we saw what ei's dad could do despite being old. Then we are left with nothing but what's been said about him. That just stopped being enough. Yes Hiruzen was great back in the day but that was back in the day. Kishimoto has painted Tobirama to be this space/time jutsu wielding, edo-tensei inventing, prejudice douche. While Hashirama had the power to match EMS Madara with Kurama, and we are just suppose to believe that Hiruzens' only major draw back in his fight with an extremely dumbed down version of them was that he was getting on in years? You can believe that all you want but I dont buy it.

The thing that gets to most people about this whole thing in my opinion is that mainly people cling to what was said about Hiruzen being the strongest kage. If you actually try to prove it however, it's a bit difficult. Who's fault is that, Masashi Kishimotos.

It isn't clinging, a ninja of the caliber of Jiraiya, while drugged, still had trouble keeping up with orochimaru, while the Third did without a problem. Add to that two Kages, even weakened and not impressive as they were showed later in the manga, and you will see that Sarutobi was still good.
And the whole age things was said by Orochimaru, a ten years younger ( not in his prime, ten years younger ) Sarutobi would've killed him. Fact. And how is that not impressive? Or what, do you forget that the only opponents to give Orochimaru trouble were Sharingan-wielding talented ninjas and the freakin' Kyuubi?
Sarutobi may've not been the strongest, but was one hell of a Kage even while old.
And you see the troubles of being old with Oonoki, the guy while impressive wasn't fighting at full strenght for his back problems and his chakra capacities

Re: °°°Naruto's Awards Winners !°°°

I always want to pinpoint that the whole team 7 took top three positions as the most annoying characters

On the other hand, it is logical.

You have two most important characters: Naruto and Sasuke. They are totally different guys, so obviously half of the readers will love Naruto, the other half will love Sasuke. Each of these two teams of fans hates the other guy, so they will vote for him.

Then you have other two members of team seven. Also when it comes to them, votes are also nicely separated in two ways. Nobody could possibly vote for Kakashi, while everybody have to vote for sakura.

Re: °°°Naruto's Awards Winners !°°°

Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood

It isn't clinging, a ninja of the caliber of Jiraiya, while drugged, still had trouble keeping up with orochimaru, while the Third did without a problem. Add to that two Kages, even weakened and not impressive as they were showed later in the manga, and you will see that Sarutobi was still good.
And the whole age things was said by Orochimaru, a ten years younger ( not in his prime, ten years younger ) Sarutobi would've killed him. Fact. And how is that not impressive? Or what, do you forget that the only opponents to give Orochimaru trouble were Sharingan-wielding talented ninjas and the freakin' Kyuubi?
Sarutobi may've not been the strongest, but was one hell of a Kage even while old.
And you see the troubles of being old with Oonoki, the guy while impressive wasn't fighting at full strenght for his back problems and his chakra capacities

Like I said, Hiruzen was great back in the day. Yet people still want to claim that he is the strongest of his generation of kage despite what we've seen just because it was said in the manga around a decade ago. And that is basically all they had to go on.

Yes he fought Orochimaru and two kages but ultimately they drove him into a corner and he had to use reaper death seal to deal with them. Orochimaru ended up letting his arrogance get the better of him, as he usually tended to do, and it cost him his arms. Had Orochimaru not been toying with hiruzen the story would be different.

All this doesn't change the fact people still wanna claim that Hiruzen was stronger than the rest based mainly on a manga statement a decade ago that, as of recent chapters, constantly gets brought into question.

Hiruzen is really the only one that got a chance to prove he was a good kage because he was the only kage really known at the time. Gaaras' dad was shown but off paneled by Orochimaru. Now given his abilities I'm not the least bit surprised about that. However, sans the 3rd mizukage, we know all the abilities of Hiruzen generation of kage. Is it really far fetched to believe that they all could stand up to two kages at once? I mean one of them has the ability to stand up to ten thousand shinobi for 72 hours with one jutsu. One has the ability to obliterate armies. And one has the ability to turn his enemies own weapons against them.

To address your comment about what Orochimaru said, Kisame and Itachi said they would get forced into a mutual death situation by Jiraiya. Do you honestly believe that to be true today.

Re: °°°Naruto's Awards Winners !°°°

Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood

Point being, Yondaime is overrated ( I admit it myself ) but you can't say that others like Sasuke or even Itachi aren't. No sir

I can understand how people can think both Sasuke and Itachi are. Because they are to a degree. I can't however see how anyone CAN'T see that Minato is to a much, much greater degree than Sasuke or Itachi. I can't understand that one. Hell, I give Jiraiya more respect than Minato because as strong as Jiraiya is he has nothing that can flatout be considered hax.

I just like Minato more because he's a blond haired, blue eyed Uchiha.

I also don't get the whole "Sarutobi kept up with Orochimaru" deal. I don't remember Oro fighting seriously until his soul was nearly removed. He was all giggles throughout the whole fight. And through the majority of it he was just sitting there watching Saru become a geriatric punching bag.