ISO 4217 maintains and creates the currency code designations. Bitcoin is usually (mistakenly) referred to as BCT. It is the only crypto-currency with an ISO currency code (and so, therefore, is not an "alt coin").

Aren't all these digi-coin enterprises "successful" right now? In terms of pulling in the money, it seems like the hot ticket, and you know, 2damoon! But which ones will be thriving a year from now? That's a harder decision and impossible to know. But maybe a lot of the money flowing in doesn't intend to stay there that long.

Really hard to avoid the alts, cos that's where the money is right now. Zcash just went up so much within a week. You could either throw away your initial investment, or double/triple that in a week/month. Reckless? Obviously. But fortune seems to beckon for those bold enough.

"Two things define you. Your patience when you have nothing, and your attitude when you have everything."

Altima wrote:Really hard to avoid the alts, cos that's where the money is right now. Zcash just went up so much within a week. You could either throw away your initial investment, or double/triple that in a week/month. Reckless? Obviously. But fortune seems to beckon for those bold enough.

Fortune or Famine. lol. A colleague of mine is a fairly big investor and he told me about ethereum last year and was invested in it. I should've followed...drats Personally though, I'd keep an eye on ethereum mainly following good money.

Altima wrote:Really hard to avoid the alts, cos that's where the money is right now. Zcash just went up so much within a week. You could either throw away your initial investment, or double/triple that in a week/month. Reckless? Obviously. But fortune seems to beckon for those bold enough.

Fortune or Famine. lol. A colleague of mine is a fairly big investor and he told me about ethereum last year and was invested in it. I should've followed...drats Personally though, I'd keep an eye on ethereum mainly following good money.

I had a friend who bought 1000 eth during the crowdsale. Now it's worth at least 30,000 USD. Let's just say he's quite a happy camper with how things turned out.

"Two things define you. Your patience when you have nothing, and your attitude when you have everything."

Long John wrote:Aren't all these digi-coin enterprises "successful" right now? In terms of pulling in the money, it seems like the hot ticket, and you know, 2damoon! But which ones will be thriving a year from now? That's a harder decision and impossible to know. But maybe a lot of the money flowing in doesn't intend to stay there that long.

If you're thinking Quantum, read the white-paper. Quantum is a serious venture with a well-known base of investors and corporations behind it.

If you are referring to the "existing" coins, anything goes. That's why I call them scam-coins, although some might be successful in the long run.(maybe Dash, Zcash, and Monero).

Altima wrote:Really hard to avoid the alts, cos that's where the money is right now. Zcash just went up so much within a week. You could either throw away your initial investment, or double/triple that in a week/month. Reckless? Obviously. But fortune seems to beckon for those bold enough.

Fortune or Famine. lol. A colleague of mine is a fairly big investor and he told me about ethereum last year and was invested in it. I should've followed...drats Personally though, I'd keep an eye on ethereum mainly following good money.

I had a friend who bought 1000 eth during the crowdsale. Now it's worth at least 30,000 USD. Let's just say he's quite a happy camper with how things turned out.

I was part of the Ethereum crowd sale. Me & 11,000 other people worldwide.

Quantum was my first crowd sale participation. I'm sure this thread will track the journey for several of us who chose to participate. In 2 years we might be singing praises or we might be saying it was a mistake. Hard to say at this point.

Please consider the following a rant or babble or even raving, but don't dismiss it out of hand. The view of "computer numbers" is not my invention, and it is food for thought...

[rant]Congrats to those whose number on a computer is much larger now than the computer number you initially bought in that venue. Please keep in mind that until it is converted to a tangible benefit -- loaf of bread, gas in the tank, ounces of bullion, paying off your car -- it's still a number on a computer. If there's an overriding "scam" in all of this, on top of any smaller "scams" that are real or imagined, it's that you're not supposed to turn your computer number into a tangible asset. The number gets bigger and bigger, and you feel better and better about having it in that form. Quite a rush, seeing that number inflate like a balloon. Believe me, I know.

Hey, computer numbers are useful tools in this world. When I get paid for a week's work, it's a computer number. I certainly don't pay my bills with silver bars. I pay with computer numbers that have been allocated to me. The world is increasingly represented to our senses as computer numbers, subject to manipulation by forces beyond our control and even without our knowledge. That's why many of us stack, to have a portion of our "wealth" in something tangible, something that has represented wealth for thousands of years. It's our way of rebelling against the reign of computer numbers that somebody else can manipulate to his advantage and our disadvantage with a keystroke, speaking overly simplistically. It's a whole lot harder for someone to steal my wealth by taking my precious metal.

Now, those who took out their initial investment in an alt-coin and kept the profit where it was as a free-to-play speculation, you have all my admiration -- if you didn't just turn that initial investment into a different computer number. [/endrant]

Long John wrote:Is there anything to prevent alt-coin operators from showing any value or price that they want it to say, in order to pull in more money? Madoff is a tired example, but that's how he attracted and kept his investors in line, with statements showing WOW returns that were just numbers on a piece of paper, total fiction. How are these numbers generated? Are they beyond manipulation?

Let's do a test case example of a recent stock IPO (initial public offering) with an alt-coin ICO (initial coin offering). The obvious case: Snapchat. As a small guy, you don't have the option to purchase IPO shares. You can only acquire on the open market after all the angel investors and smart(er) money have purchased. You need to be a rich institutional investor to have access to IPO shares or the "good deals" that Joe Public doesn't have access to. Also, in this particular case SNAP is a company with no revenue but has a market capitalization of around $24-25 billion when it went public. Again this company produces no product, relies on advertising sales with no revenue (after expenses), and could be worth nothing in 10 years when it is replaced by the next bigger and better app. What is the biggest upside in 3 years time? Does anyone think this stock could triple or quadruple in that time with these fundamentals?

Now for the latest alt-coin Qtum: Joe Public can participate. He needs no authorization from important bankers, no minimum level of investment, and the Qtum founders practically discourage you from investing if you read their 30 page white paper (which I did). The risk is you can lose everything in numerous ways. The coin could be a scam with great marketing. The coin could have great intentions but yield no market. Crypto exchanges may refuse to list it for trade thereby stifling the market. There could be corruption, an early hard fork, or a security breach of Qtum or their respective wallet software they deliver the coins in. That is a lot of risk. The coin could also increase 10 or 100 fold in 2-5 years. If the smart contract blockchain technology takes off, and people choose Qtum next to, or even instead of or ETH or BTC than it isn't just a home run, it is a grand slam, every inning, for the next decade. So while the risk is great, the payoff is also MUCH greater than an IPO like SNAP, and I don't have to invest $1 million to get into the IPO. You could literally invest $100 and lose it all or in 2-5 years have $1,000 or if you're really luck, $10k. What are the odds of each of these scenarios? I have no clue. So if you are going to play the game, only play with entertainment money you can afford to lose.

There is a major flaw in this analogy, Snapchat IPO vs Quantum. Snapchat is currently in use, Qtum is not. Once you put money into Qtum, can you get it out tomorrow, as you can with Snapchat?

This entry point to Qtum is more akin to being an Angel Investor in Snapchat, long before the IPO. Those investors are usually stuck at that point, their money may be gone forever. The risk/reward ratio is similar for both entry points.

As you pointed out, the Qtum entry point requires much less investment. For that and other reasons, the average person can participate in that, unlike the early Snapchat or similar ventures.

Long John wrote:it's still a number on a computer. If there's an overriding "scam" in all of this, on top of any smaller "scams" that are real or imagined, it's that you're not supposed to turn your computer number into a tangible asset.

What gives a crypto currency value? We are so use to asking permission from a higher authority (government) in regards to a currency or value of exchange, that the idea of a currency outside of a "government approved" venue seems risky, wrong, or [gasp] illegal because some higher power hasn't approved of it yet. If a million people believe something holds value, and use that something, and can easily transact with that something, does it matter if it is a crypto token or a silver coin, or a bottle of laundry detergent?

We don't know if a new alt-coin being invented today will have value once fully implemented. But we can look at the team putting it together, the incentives that team is creating for themselves and the future holders of their currency, the risk involved, and determine what is an acceptable level of risk to invest. Somebody telling me "this isn't supposed to happen (because I said so?)" isn't a good argument.

Long John wrote:It's our way of rebelling against the reign of computer numbers that somebody else can manipulate to his advantage and our disadvantage with a keystroke, speaking overly simplistically. It's a whole lot harder for someone to steal my wealth by taking my precious metal.

I agree. But a much larger rebellious act is transacting in bitcoin and alt-coins. The big boys already manipulate and control the price of PMs through paper markets. We buy our physical and what really changes? They don't control bitcoin or alt-coins. The blockchain technology is here and can't be un-invented. It is rebellious because it is a disruptive technology that may one day replace modern banking. Any country can try to outlaw it, but even that won't stop it anymore. It would put that country at a distinct technological disadvantage while others surpass it and use the technology for wonderful things we haven't even imagined yet.

Andreas speaks about alt-coins here and it is an informative and great way to look at this new market:

Last edited by SilverDoge on Mon Mar 20, 2017, edited 1 time in total.

jcz1 wrote:This entry point to Qtum is more akin to being an Angel Investor in Snapchat, long before the IPO. Those investors are usually stuck at that point, their money may be gone forever. The risk/reward ratio is similar for both entry points.