For example, draw weight does not necessarily mean a faster bolt speed.

There is also the draw length to consider. The longer the string stays in contact with the bolt, the longer the power transmitted by the string has to accelerate it.

When we get into inexpensive 100 lb - 150 lb draw weight crossbows often seen in advertisements, take a look at the draw length.

Back in the late 1950 to 1960s Wamo offered an 80 lb draw aluminum prod crossbow. It shot fairly well because it had an 18" draw.

The small inexpensive crossbows I see advertised today might have a 150lb draw weight but only a 12" draw. These don't shoot any better than the old 80LB Wamo.

Now to contrast these cheap bows to the "Gee-Wiz" top end crossbows available today, they all have a reasonable draw length and are very powerful indeed.

Learning to keep the fingers out of the line of the bow while loading a bolt.

25 year old Barnett Panzer 150 LB 13" draw crossbow. Modified by adding a recoil pad the lengthen stock, and a foot stirrup to assist in cocking.

I make my own strings. Center serving is 0.020" Stainless Aircraft Safety wire.

Hope this has made some sense and clarification

SAFETY CONSIDERATIONS:Keep the string well waxed and inspect often... Any frayed areas mean new string now.Always wear eye protection.... A broken string propelled by a 150lb prod can take out an eye instantly.

"SAFETY CONSIDERATIONS:Keep the string well waxed and inspect often... Any frayed areas mean new string now.Always wear eye protection.... A broken string propelled by a 150lb prod can take out an eye instantly."

Do you make your own for a specific reason (more intimate knowledge of the bow or process? Cheaper? More field expedient?)What materials do you use to make your own bowstrings? How much more economical is it to have a roll of materials than to just have a dozen store bought strings in a box?

I'm planning on building my first longbow and although I can be pretty primitive building the bow, i'm not sure about strings. I don't know enough about the strings yet.

I have no problem purchasing a bunch of spares and keeping them around, but i'd like to learn to be a bit more self reliant with the bows. (I shoot a compound for fun and sport but know nothing about the mechanics. I prefer a simple Long or recurve). If I have to walk away from my gear and need to build a bow. I'd like to know how to make a string thats going to stand up to more than a couple shots and not take an eye out.

I love archery and really want to get "Back to Basics" and learn everything I can.

Cost is not a consideration for me either, (I was just curious if there was a big difference). I would prefer to learn the skill well myself rather than depend on a third party). I'm a tinkerer and love to dig into a project like this. Not to mention I want to teach my boys to be self sufficient and this project is the start of a hobby that they and I are really enjoying together.

I'm a tall guy and was wondering if lengthening the longbow a bit would have any benefits or detriments or if I should stick to specific lengths.

I would really appreciate any guidance and knowledge you could throw my way.

Sorry to hijack this crossbow thread. I'll start a new thread for Home Made Longbow.

I also own the Chinese copy. You can tell the two apart because there is a barnett logo on the bottom of the grip on the real one.

There is little in function between the original and the Chinese copy, the aluminium is slightly lighter and the dimensiosn of parts are marginally smaller.

Now there is nothing special about the panzer. It is a fairly bog standard 150lb crossbow. It will generate somewhere between 215FPS and 250FPS depending on the condition and the bolt tpe and grain weight.

The trouble is the rest of the comments relating to crossbows here are mostly bull with some cut and paste google facts thrown in.

For example

"I have a great time with my little Barnett Panzer, and have eliminated a couple of pests on my 300 Meter Silhouette Pistol Range in Eastern Washington"

Not unless they were the size of elephants.

At 300 meters the bolt has dropped so far below your sight window that you would hate no hope of hitting a one foot square target consistently. Up to 50 meters, sure, 100 meters, maybe if you *really* know what you are doing, 150 Meters if you have a bow your built and know what you are doing. 300 Meters? Just not possible. Complete nonsense.

"I can attach broadheads to these bolts, and have a quiet shortrange weapon"OK so crowwbows are supposed to be silent?

Compele nonsense - they are noisy. This is a myth. The noise is sufficient to make will animals jump and run, which is why you should never shoot a crossbow at a living animal unless very close, the bold may end up maiming it if it jumps at the sound.

There are several 'devices' that attempt to silence crossbows but they also slow the FPS.

As with longbows tuning for crossbow broadheads is a challenge and quite difficult, in my experience 2 blade creates the best effect but feel free to experiment.

Finally if you have indeed in a moment of madness decided that you are going to use steel wire as a serving on a kevlar or dacron based string, please stop before you loose an eye. Strings are cheap. I have in one third world country seen a piece of nylon washing line installed on an old barnett wildcat but unless you are re-enacting 'the road' there is very little reason not to just buy 50 bucks of strings and forget about it.

The rope cocking device pictured is just that a rope cocking device. You can get one on ebay for very little. It is not improvised.

However in terms of accuracy it is absolutely critical that the string be drawn exactly without any additional pressure to the left or right of the limb when it is cocked. This is the advantage of a goats foot. I own a barnett model which is no longer made, an ugly thing in white aluminium. Similarly cant is an accuracy destroyer and a spirit lever is a good extra. Scopes and red dots are fairly pointless. If you can't see 60 Meters then a large moa glowing red dot is certainly not going to assist you.

Archery clubs do not like crossbows. There is a good reason for this, they destroy arachery butts very quickly. A croosbow shooter may do better looking to a gun club in many countries and places.

This is probably the biggest problem a beginner crossbow shooter will have, bolts are expensive and easy to ruin unless you get a good backstop that preserves them.

2119 aluminium arrows may be used for bolts for 150 lb crossbows. There is little or nothing between the cheaper models and their chinese copies and even in the case of the more expsnive bows very little practical performance gain. In essense you will have a maximum accurate range of 60 meters and something that delivers the same FPS as a compound bow. They are noisy and expensive to run in both strings and bolts. Arachery tools are useful and quite cheap, get a scales that measures grains, an arrow cutter and a fleteching jig.

There is great depth to archery and most interesting results come from great care in bolt and arrow design and tuning. If you want to get the best from your bow focus on this.

I could go on....but readers should just take heed that there is much wrong with the stated facts and I am under the impression that this was written by someone charged with enthusiasm for a new toy who got a little carried away and feigned experience and with a pinch of wishfull thinking and fantasy thrown in for good measure..crossbows do not go 300 meters and are not silent and are no better than a compound bow in results. Love the things and wish they could do more but they can't, I've been shooting them for 20 years and have 7 of them hanging on my den walls as I type, along with a bunch of recurves and some compounds.

Quite happy to continue the thread and get into real detail on crossbows, archery, stone bows etc for those who are enthusiasts.

About the only really practcal use for a modern 150 LB is ambush hunting from a stand at short range using a bait. As a weapon it is pretty useless unless you are planning to ambush people, which I would hope you are not. Very little hope whatsoever of hitting a running target at 50 non of hitting reliably at all at any distance in excell of 100M unless you are playing at clout shooting.

DO NOT USE STEEL WIRE ON ARCHERY STRING SERVINGS OR YOU COULD BLIND YOURSELF.

I need to warn you that the way you presented your info is not acceptable on this forum. You are free to disagree with other members. You may not insult them by calling them liars.

I encourage you to read more carefully the posts you're replying to. Nobody claimed to have shot pests at 300 yards, only to have used the crossbow to eliminate pests from a shooting range. Nobody claimed that crossbows are silent, only that they are quiet relative to other short-range weapons (e.g. handguns).

Please check out our forum's Terms of Service, and don't post any more personal attacks on other members. Thanks.

I haven't had a lot of practice but I do own some nice crossbows they are so fun to shoot, I have two 11 points one tactical one regular size , both with scopes and I have a horton hunter and a barnett, I have been trying to mount a night vision yukon scope on the barnet I think it would be cool, (coyotes) idk sounds fun.

I also own the Chinese copy. You can tell the two apart because there is a barnett logo on the bottom of the grip on the real one.

There is little in function between the original and the Chinese copy, the aluminium is slightly lighter and the dimensiosn of parts are marginally smaller.

Now there is nothing special about the panzer. It is a fairly bog standard 150lb crossbow. It will generate somewhere between 215FPS and 250FPS depending on the condition and the bolt tpe and grain weight.

First of all, my Barnett Panzer predates the one you pictured.... (Barnett upgraded the design several years after I bought mine.. From the factory)It truly is a Panzer.I bought a foot stirrup from Barnett and fitted it to my crossbow along with a hokey cheap recoil pad to lengthen the stock.You need to search further back to earlier designs.... Your bows are about five years younger than mine.

Quote

The trouble is the rest of the comments relating to crossbows here are mostly bull with some cut and paste google facts thrown in.

For example

"I have a great time with my little Barnett Panzer, and have eliminated a couple of pests on my 300 Meter Silhouette Pistol Range in Eastern Washington"

Not unless they were the size of elephants.

At 300 meters the bolt has dropped so far below your sight window that you would hate no hope of hitting a one foot square target consistently. Up to 50 meters, sure, 100 meters, maybe if you *really* know what you are doing, 150 Meters if you have a bow your built and know what you are doing. 300 Meters? Just not possible. Complete nonsense.

This is my 300 Meters Silhouette range showing the Pigs, Turkeys, and Rams.

Chickens (Next to the outhouse) are shot from a different spot.

The ground squirrels that I shot were around 20 yards away.What on earth would make you think I would shoot at anything at 300 yards with a crossbow?

Quote

"I can attach broadheads to these bolts, and have a quiet shortrange weapon"OK so crowwbows are supposed to be silent?

Quiet doesn't mean totally silent.... You should know that. Taking a game animal in a survival situation, I may not want to use my 300 Weatherby.The use of a crossbow would give the surrounding area a much lower noise signature and not alert anyone else to my location.

Quote

Compele nonsense - they are noisy. This is a myth. The noise is sufficient to make will animals jump and run, which is why you should never shoot a crossbow at a living animal unless very close, the bold may end up maiming it if it jumps at the sound.

Quiet true... I've had deer react to the string noise from my recurve too.Any deer hunting would naturally be from a blind, and shots taken under 50 yards.

Quote

There are several 'devices' that attempt to silence crossbows but they also slow the FPS.

As with longbows tuning for crossbow broadheads is a challenge and quite difficult, in my experience 2 blade creates the best effect but feel free to experiment.

I've been making strings and arrows since 1962.This of course means "tuning" arrows for broadheads too.... Just takes attention to detail, the correct spline, the right size fletching and a straight on head installation.

Quote

Finally if you have indeed in a moment of madness decided that you are going to use steel wire as a serving on a kevlar or dacron based string, please stop before you loose an eye. Strings are cheap. I have in one third world country seen a piece of nylon washing line installed on an old barnett wildcat but unless you are re-enacting 'the road' there is very little reason not to just buy 50 bucks of strings and forget about it.

I use steel safety wire servings on the crossbow strings that I make because they abrade far less than the fabric servings from rubbing on the crossbow. I inspect my strings on a regular basis and discard often.Been doing this for a lot of years with no problems....

Quote

The rope cocking device pictured is just that a rope cocking device. You can get one on ebay for very little. It is not improvised.

I have the materials necessary to make my own... Using that picture, I'll improvise one instead of buy one.

Quote

However in terms of accuracy it is absolutely critical that the string be drawn exactly without any additional pressure to the left or right of the limb when it is cocked. This is the advantage of a goats foot. I own a barnett model which is no longer made, an ugly thing in white aluminium. Similarly cant is an accuracy destroyer and a spirit lever is a good extra.

Absolutely true.... your point?Do you believe that I don't?

Quote

Scopes and red dots are fairly pointless. If you can't see 60 Meters then a large moa glowing red dot is certainly not going to assist you.

I too have found this to be true. I bought the cheap 22 rifle sight when I bought the bow.I just have not had reason to change it.

Quote

Archery clubs do not like crossbows. There is a good reason for this, they destroy arachery butts very quickly. A croosbow shooter may do better looking to a gun club in many countries and places.

Also true.And of course every fool knows that members of an archery club would never own a crossbow.However, in the odd chance that a member or two of a club does own a crossbow, they would also probably have a place to shoot it....

Quote

This is probably the biggest problem a beginner crossbow shooter will have, bolts are expensive and easy to ruin unless you get a good backstop that preserves them.

2119 aluminium arrows may be used for bolts for 150 lb crossbows. There is little or nothing between the cheaper models and their chinese copies and even in the case of the more expsnive bows very little practical performance gain. In essense you will have a maximum accurate range of 60 meters and something that delivers the same FPS as a compound bow. They are noisy and expensive to run in both strings and bolts. Arachery tools are useful and quite cheap, get a scales that measures grains, an arrow cutter and a fleteching jig.

There is great depth to archery and most interesting results come from great care in bolt and arrow design and tuning. If you want to get the best from your bow focus on this.

I could go on....but readers should just take heed that there is much wrong with the stated facts and I am under the impression that this was written by someone charged with enthusiasm for a new toy who got a little carried away and feigned experience and with a pinch of wishfull thinking and fantasy thrown in for good measure..crossbows do not go 300 meters and are not silent and are no better than a compound bow in results. Love the things and wish they could do more but they can't, I've been shooting them for 20 years and have 7 of them hanging on my den walls as I type, along with a bunch of recurves and some compounds.

Quite happy to continue the thread and get into real detail on crossbows, archery, stone bows etc for those who are enthusiasts.

About the only really practcal use for a modern 150 LB is ambush hunting from a stand at short range using a bait. As a weapon it is pretty useless unless you are planning to ambush people, which I would hope you are not. Very little hope whatsoever of hitting a running target at 50 non of hitting reliably at all at any distance in excell of 100M unless you are playing at clout shooting.

DO NOT USE STEEL WIRE ON ARCHERY STRING SERVINGS OR YOU COULD BLIND YOURSELF.

Could you provide an example of where and when a steel serving caused a string failure?

It appears that you read quite a bit into my post that wasn't really there.

I'ts been my observation that some people like to tear down someone else to boost their own self worth.From reading your post, it appears that you may qualify as one.

learn to build your own you will learn a lot more than listening to others and become less dependent on others that is what survial is all about . Do it yourself a favor learn to do it you may not have someone to depend on BUT yourself.

For starters I am new to this forum, hunting, crossbows, survival, gardening, and self sufficiency; I have just awakened from my slumber. I am not an expert on anything but am excited to learn just about anything.

That being said...I was looking at crossbows for a while and almost pulled the trigger on this one. It seemed like a really good value for a starter crossbow and if you buy it from Sportsman's Guide it comes with a lifetime warranty.

For starters I am new to this forum, hunting, crossbows, survival, gardening, and self sufficiency; I have just awakened from my slumber. I am not an expert on anything but am excited to learn just about anything.

That being said...I was looking at crossbows for a while and almost pulled the trigger on this one. It seemed like a really good value for a starter crossbow and if you buy it from Sportsman's Guide it comes with a lifetime warranty.

As Oldsoul mentioned, you don't really need a telescopic sight on a crossbow.My crossbow sports a cheap 1X optical sight and works well for me.At crossbow ranges (~50 yards or less), magnification might make tracking your target more difficult.Remember, this is a type of bow, not a rifle.

I am new here and for that matter I have never posted to any forum. But I would like to get as many inputs as possible. A little about me, I grew up with my father teaching us about guns, saftey, hunting shooting and pretty much anything that made his girls not having to have someone do it for them. (I thank God for my Daddy!) I am 35 and since being married for 16 years, I have four children and I am tryinig to teach my girls the same thing and teaching my boys how to be the provider! I have not hunted and went shooting only a handful of times. I do not own any guns or bows (YET!). But I do want to learn to use a crossbow and was hoping for some guidance. Yes I am getting it from my Father aswell, Just looking at what other folks have to say as well!

I was going to sty out of this but as I read on I think I may have a few points. I must throw out a disclaimer before I go any further. My bow was purchased as an "Economy" bow back in 1985. It is a Steel prod recurve bow. It has spent the last 18 or so years just hanging around and is just going back into service.

1) Look at the sites that come with your bow before you dismiss the use of a scope. My bow came with a "CHEAP" peep site on the rear that lasted a total of 3 shots. It was also equipped with a 22Style dovetail scope channel. I used the Tusco scope off of a 1980s marlin 60 for years until the rail pealed off. I am not saying that you need a $400 scope but replacing the $0.50 peep site with $40 reddot turned a hunk of junk into a usable tool.2) Know your limitations. As mentioned earlier the ballistics are not any better with a crossbow than a compound. They are by no stretch quite but they do not require hearing protection either. 3) Look at the fit and finish of your string path. The string rides on the channel the arrow sits in and if there are edges and snags then the life of your string will be reduced.4) As a person who does not like heights I am not the most comfortable in my tree stand. I will not stand up to get down. I hope it is more respect than fear but it is what it is. I rediscovered that I can only shoot left of center from my stand with my compound just Saturday. The ability to shoot seated at odd angles is not there with a compond. The cross bow will allow me to leave the safety bar in place and take a shot at an extra 30 degrees or so to my right. Also since you cock the bow as soon as you are in the tree you only have one step to get ready to fire making less movement.5) Shoot one before you buy it. I am sure that a) my preferences have changed and b) by trigger my have gotten worse, but... The trigger pull on my old bow makes it no fun to shoot. The pull must be 3 times that of any of the guns in my collection. I do not have a gauge, but it is massive. Holding the sites on target as I haul the trigger back is nerve racking. I have always needed to wear gloves when shooting it for both the cocking and the trigger on my finger.

Crossbows have their place they are not a gun they are not a compound bow they are their own monster with the pluses and minuses all their own.

I was going to sty out of this but as I read on I think I may have a few points. I must throw out a disclaimer before I go any further. My bow was purchased as an "Economy" bow back in 1985. It is a Steel prod recurve bow. It has spent the last 18 or so years just hanging around and is just going back into service.<<< SNIP >>>Crossbows have their place they are not a gun they are not a compound bow they are their own monster with the pluses and minuses all their own.

Very good points DDJ.I'm glad you have joined in the discussion.

What brand of crossbow do you have?

The only metal prod crossbow that comes to mind is the aluminum prod Wammo crossbow of the 1960s.

The 1x optical sight I put on my crossbow has proved to be far superior to the factory installed sights that came on the bow.

Ok, I'll join in the crossbow thread. Bought a used Barnett Rhino this year. It was quite cheap and mainly, it has easily detachable bow, which makes it much easier to transport. First I got some cheap bolts that mostly fell apart on first shot, but then I discovered this Sloveninan guy on ebay, who sells very well made bolts made not from regular carbon fiber, but from carbon fabric. Well priced. Also makes broadheads. Got a couple and they're good! The only problem I had was when one of the fletches fell off (not sure, but I might have hit it by another bolt on the target).Wanna try some improvised bolts yet. I've made many bow arrows in the past, so bolts shouldn't be too big problem. I'll just need to control myself while forging the heads to make them lightweight enough - I know I tend to make arrowheads too large.

If anyone knew of spareparts for this old Rhino model (such as a retired, non functiuonal one you might have), please let me know. There's a part I'd like to change on mine.

Great post. I really like the info on the original Barnett PANZER crossbow. I just picked one up and its very fun and effective to shoot. Simple, but will do any job you need it for within its range. I have a few photos which I am going to try and post. PLEASE POST YOUR PANZER 1 PHOTOS, I would love to see a few other examples. The Panzer ad that was posted is the most info I have ever seen on this crossbow. Photos to follow. This is my first post, glad to be part of your online community.

Great post. I really like the info on the original Barnett PANZER crossbow. I just picked one up and its very fun and effective to shoot. Simple, but will do any job you need it for within its range. I have a few photos which I am going to try and post. PLEASE POST YOUR PANZER 1 PHOTOS, I would love to see a few other examples. The Panzer ad that was posted is the most info I have ever seen on this crossbow. Photos to follow. This is my first post, glad to be part of your online community.

Welcome to the discussion.I don't get back here as often as I should.Looking forward to seeing your pictures.

I've been shooting a crossbow for about 10 years now. I wanted one that was reliable, it needs to work every time, many miles from my shop or (worse) a bow shop.Easy to maintain, last thing you want is a shop queen. Accurate, hardly any point if you can't be sure you hit where you aimed.It has to be safe, these things can store a huge amount of energy and can be dangerous.Excalibur makes the best, have the most amazing customer service as well.