Didn’t think of it that way. If all the PFs are flawed that actually will help resale value. I will say a PF that has bad clear would be about the worst weakness (as you call it) a pin could have. This is NOT just another pin issue. This is THE pin issue. As in I can’t come up with a bigger problem you could have with your pin.

Cosmetic issues outside the path of the ball being the biggest possible problem you can have with a pin??

No - it’s a beauty problem. It’s not a game play issue... it’s not a reliability issue... it doesn’t keep you from enjoying the pin at all. Correct the paint if you want...Seal the chip so it’s edges are locked down... and you could keep playing forever. This isn’t flawed mechs that have NLA parts... or mechs that self destruct... or cabinets that fall apart... or PFs that come apart, etc. all issues certain pins in the past have suffered or been at risk for.

The analogy for this new issue would be like red (and other inks) ink used by WMS/Bally in their cabinets that ALWAYS faded. Dealing with PF repairs scares most... but it’s still just a cosmetic issue at this point.

I don't agree at all.
If the "chip" and clear are separating at effectively time zero; you have no way to judge how this PF will look after 4-6 years... or 2 decades... or 4 decades. For all you know this is a symptom of a bigger ice berg.

If Ink isn't bonding to the Wood Surface... there very well could be problems later. in "ball travel" areas of the game... which leads to more clear/paint loss... which leads to eventually an unplayable and undesirable game.

I don't agree at all.
If the "chip" and clear are separating at effectively time zero; you have no way to judge how this PF will look after 4-6 years... or 2 decades... or 4 decades. For all you know this is a symptom of a bigger ice berg.
If Ink isn't bonding to the Wood Surface... there very well could be problems later. in "ball travel" areas of the game... which leads to more clear/paint loss... which leads to eventually an unplayable and undesirable game.

And yet, with a mint NOS playfield on standby, any concern over that wear could be resolved N years down the road, no?

I don't agree at all.
If the "chip" and clear are separating at effectively time zero; you have no way to judge how this PF will look after 4-6 years... or 2 decades... or 4 decades. For all you know this is a symptom of a bigger ice berg.
If Ink isn't bonding to the Wood Surface... there very well could be problems later. in "ball travel" areas of the game... which leads to more clear/paint loss... which leads to eventually an unplayable and undesirable game.

But we’ve seen there are many games that have this over the last year plus... and they are not showing signs of any sort of progression or issues in areas without compression contact. This is just getting scrutinized now... but it’s been there for awhile largely unnoticed.

Cosmetic issues outside the path of the ball being the biggest possible problem you can have with a pin??
No - it’s a beauty problem. It’s not a game play issue... it’s not a reliability issue... it doesn’t keep you from enjoying the pin at all. Correct the paint if you want...Seal the chip so it’s edges are locked down... and you could keep playing forever. This isn’t flawed mechs that have NLA parts... or mechs that self destruct... or cabinets that fall apart... or PFs that come apart, etc. all issues certain pins in the past have suffered or been at risk for.
The analogy for this new issue would be like red (and other inks) ink used by WMS/Bally in their cabinets that ALWAYS faded. Dealing with PF repairs scares most... but it’s still just a cosmetic issue at this point.

There are chipping issues outside the slings and in the path of the ball on POTC, like the chip on mine at the base of the "I" lane mini post. This issue is about playfields on machines less than a year old. I'd guess most mechanical and electrical parts on new machines aren't NLA and they can be fixed or replaced so as to make any previous issues with them become unnoticeable. When playfield art has lifted and been damaged on a chip, I think it's much more difficult to repair it in a way that is no longer noticeable.

True, it does not impact the physical game play but it can impact the enjoyment of the machine. I think the cosmetic look of a machine is a part of the enjoyment of playing it. Not as important as shot type and variety, but it does impact the impression of a machine. If you put two of the same machine side by side, one having a chipped up playfield and one in good condition, I'd enjoy playing the one in good condition more because it's visually more appealing. Right or wrong, that would be my reaction. I hope my new POTC doesn't get to that point, but I now have a valid concern about the durability of this playfield and I don't think it's unreasonable for people with this issue to think it's not acceptable having it happen in a new machine. Playfields should be able to go more than a year without issues like this.

I am not understanding why you people keep buying games unseen and unplayed. I have stopped doing that years ago. Its not like they are running out of new pinball machines. I hope jjp never releases a new run of potc with the playfield problems fixed, it would make the original run value drop bigtime.

My time on earth is limited. I like to play new pinball machines. I expect to lose money within my hobbies.
As a matter of fact, I lost a bunch this weekend on games that had perfect playfields.

And yet, with a mint NOS playfield on standby, any concern over that wear could be resolved N years down the road, no?

But should buyers of new machines today feel the need to purchase a new playfield now for use down the road because of poor manufacturing in the clear coat and/or artwork? I don't think that's an acceptable quality level for new machines to be manufactured to.

There are chipping issues outside the slings and in the path of the ball on POTC, like the chip on mine at the base of the "I" lane mini post. This issue is about playfields on machines less than a year old. I'd guess most mechanical and electrical parts on new machines aren't NLA and they can be fixed or replaced so as to make any previous issues with them become unnoticeable. When playfield art has lifted and been damaged on a chip, I think it's much more difficult to repair it in a way that is no longer noticeable.
True, it does not impact the physical game play but it can impact the enjoyment of the machine. I think the cosmetic look of a machine is a part of the enjoyment of playing it. Not as important as shot type and variety, but it does impact the impression of a machine. If you put two of the same machine side by side, one having a chipped up playfield and one in good condition, I'd enjoy playing the one in good condition more because it's visually more appealing. Right or wrong, that would be my reaction. I hope my new POTC doesn't get to that point, but I now have a valid concern about the durability of this playfield and I don't think it's unreasonable for people with this issue to think it's not acceptable having it happen in a new machine. Playfields should be able to go more than a year without issues like this.

Hey -- ILLINOIS - Okay - Nice someone in my backyard.

I agree that there will be issues with playfields, But I agree with this statement - Its not like it chipping years down the road === Its a matter of weeks or few months - I just don't get and for me that make it hard to enjoy. In fact I would be scared to keep playing on it because I would fear that it would get worst.

Just me - That is why I am worried about the WWCF CE ones - Will it happen to those? Am I willing to take that risk? No - I am worried about this and I am hoping that JJP and others will somehow lets those out there know that they understand the issue and have resolved it and are willing to help those that have been effected by this chipping.

I think that those that have have paid out money for replacement playfields should get their money back or a credit towards a future game or something. Also a reasonable fix needs to be offered to those effected. But I have said this before and on tonight's podcast - So I am justing to hear back from Joe, which I am hoping will be by the end of this coming week.

Shit - They were suppose to reveal the details on the CE models by the end of this month -- Wait --- Sorry they have 6 more days left

I just know that there are alot of nervous people and this is going to be interesting.

But should buyers of new machines today feel the need to purchase a new playfield now for use down the road because of poor manufacturing in the clear coat and/or artwork? I don't think that's an acceptable quality level for new machines to be manufactured to.

NOPE -- Not me

But I am thinking about buying a POTC CE Model Playfield, Because I do like the art Never display a playfield before - How does someone do that - Any one done that before - Send Pics -- Like to see examples of that.

NOPE -- Not me
But I am thinking about buying a POTC CE Model Playfield, Because I do like the art Never display a playfield before - How does someone do that - Any one done that before - Send Pics -- Like to see examples of that.

More
And yet, with a mint NOS playfield on standby, any concern over that wear could be resolved N years down the road, no?

There is always concern. What we don't know if the "soft clear" is a chemical mix problem... or a "not enough cure time" problem.
The former - may mean the clear may never cure. The later means a "mint PF" with no post on it *may* cure with time.

This is just getting scrutinized now... but it’s been there for awhile largely unnoticed.

The art coming of with the clear is a clearly a delamination issue. That is a real problem. "the community" doesn't have evidence either way that this will progress beyond "clear" pools and chips near the posts. Anyone spending more than $500 on a machine should be weary and clear... and you shouldn't be dismissing this as a "cosmetic -only" problem.

Hey -- ILLINOIS - Okay - Nice someone in my backyard.
I agree that there will be issues with playfields, But I agree with this statement - Its not like it chipping years down the road === Its a matter of weeks or few months - I just don't get and for me that make it hard to enjoy. In fact I would be scared to keep playing on it because I would fear that it would get worst.
Just me - That is why I am worried about the WWCF CE ones - Will it happen to those? Am I willing to take that risk? No - I am worried about this and I am hoping that JJP and others will somehow lets those out there know that they understand the issue and have resolved it and are willing to help those that have been effected by this chipping.
I think that those that have have paid out money for replacement playfields should get their money back or a credit towards a future game or something. Also a reasonable fix needs to be offered to those effected. But I have said this before and on tonight's podcast - So I am justing to hear back from Joe, which I am hoping will be by the end of this coming week.
Shit - They were suppose to reveal the details on the CE models by the end of this month -- Wait --- Sorry they have 6 more days left
I just know that there are alot of nervous people and this is going to be interesting.

Thanks, I've read your recent posts and I sympathize with how this is making you feel. Yep, with me it became more about the JJP response than it was the chip. I only asked JJP for advice on how to fix my chipping. They told me they'd get back to me, then I'd call two weeks later and they'd say again they'll get back to me. Same pattern repeated several times. All I wanted was advice on how to mend it. I knew I was out of warranty and they technically didn't have to offer any assistance. Did I think they should offer more than just the advice I was asking for? Yes. However they chose not to, and they were unresponsive to even a request for advice and left me with the impression that they felt selling a replacement playfield and charging me shipping for it was enough. That's not the type of business that will keep me as a customer.

I've thought it but I haven't written this yet, but since you're the first person I've seen mention it I've got to say I agree about what they could have chosen to do. If it were my business and my product I would have responded by saying "Here's a step by step of what you need to do to mend your chip, and we're going to send the materials required to complete these steps to you free of charge. This issue does not reflect the quality we strive to achieve in our product, and we want nothing more than to have our customers enjoy our machines. As a show of our commitment, we'd also like to offer you $X off your next purchase of a JJP machine."

The materials to lay the chip down would have cost about $20-$30 (superglue, toothpick, 1/2 pint minwax polycrylic, small brush, Novus polish, and a microfiber cloth), and maybe they say $X off a future machine is something like $100. I think that would have been a reasonable response, maybe not 100% satisfying but not nothing either. But instead they went with repeatedly not responding and only offering to sell a replacement playfield (and charge for shipping it). As a result, I'm voting with my wallet and not buying another machine from them.

I really want to see pics of these playfields that have 0 pooling around any of the posts

I doubt there are any. My POTC is pretty good with no chipping and only minor pooling around a couple posts. But here's the thing, I haven't inspected every single mounting point on the pin so I'm sure there's pooling elsewhere that I don't know about and I would bet it's the same for every other POTC. On the other hand, out-of-sight, out-of-mind.

At least the "pinball media" is starting to pick up the story. This Week In Pinball had a blurb on the playfield issues, but it was very superficial.

I doubt there are any. My POTC is pretty good with no chipping and only minor pooling around a couple posts. But here's the thing, I haven't inspected every single mounting point on the pin so I'm sure there's pooling elsewhere that I don't know about and I would bet it's the same for every other POTC. On the other hand, out-of-sight, out-of-mind.
At least the "pinball media" is starting to pick up the story. This Week In Pinball had a blurb on the playfield issues, but it was very superficial.

Gotta love that TWIP article where it says Jack said he’s out of the country with spotty service so he won’t respond to a request for comment until after he returns Sept. 8. Seems to be pretty consistent with their handling of the issue so far. No effort to respond or communicate.

Gotta love that TWIP article where it says Jack said he’s out of the country with spotty service so he won’t respond to a request for comment until after he returns Sept. 8. Seems to be pretty consistent with their handling of the issue so far. No effort to respond or communicate.

Nothing like going on a multi-week overseas vacation while your company is burning to the ground. This is nothing more than an excuse to buy them more time. You can bet your ass Jack is in regular contact with the factory team while he is gone.

Gotta love that TWIP article where it says Jack said he’s out of the country with spotty service so he won’t respond to a request for comment until after he returns Sept. 8. Seems to be pretty consistent with their handling of the issue so far. No effort to respond or communicate.

Gotta love that TWIP article where it says Jack said he’s out of the country with spotty service so he won’t respond to a request for comment until after he returns Sept. 8. Seems to be pretty consistent with their handling of the issue so far. No effort to respond or communicate.

F’ing ridiculous

Pretty much all of the civilized world has pretty good cell coverage these day unless he is in Northern Africa, the frozen tundra or out on his yacht in the middle of the Atlantic!

Maybe his "trip" is going to Germany to see WTF Mirco is doing wrong. Jack is WELL aware of playfield issues (he sold me a Funhouse pf) and it was beyond worthless. It too had pooling, chipping, cracking and mis drilled holes (not only mis drilled 1/8" but crooked!) I offered to ship it back and radio silence. After I filed a charge back (snd won), then Jack suddenly wanted it back. Being a man of my word I shipped it and requested he personally look at it and if my word holds true I'd like the shipping refunded. It cost me $80 to shop that junk back and he never did refund me let alone reply about it.

Nothing like going on a multi-week overseas vacation while your company is burning to the ground. This is nothing more than an excuse to buy them more time. You can bet your ass Jack is in regular contact with the factory team while he is gone.

Burning to the ground??? LOL... Come on people, can we stop with the hyperbole?

When playfield art has lifted and been damaged on I think much more difficult to repair it in a way that is no longer

Sure it’s more difficult to do repairs on the pf Art... but it’s still a cosmetic thing. I was responding to the notion that this is the worst possible thing that can happen to a game... that’s only if the way the game looks is the most important thing to you.

If you put two of the same machine side by side, one having a chipped up playfield and one in good condition, I'd enjoy playing the one in good condition more because it's visually more appealing. Right or wrong, that would be my reaction.

And my earlier point was... if you have the situation where “they are all like that...” then people learn to accept it and don’t get so hung up on it. Play a mid 80s Bally.... it’s complete a garbage cabinet, the sockets suck, and the pf will have no durability. But that’s what it is.

I hope my new POTC doesn't get to that point, but I now have a valid concern about the durability of this playfield and I don't think it's unreasonable for people with this issue to think it's not acceptable having it happen in a new machine. Playfields should be able to go more than a year without issues like this.

Agree - no one wants to pay a premium for new, and get a lesser experience/product

Burning to the ground??? LOL... Come on people, can we stop with the hyperbole?
Jeff

If you don't think this isn't an issue with some major ramifications for JJP, I don't know what to tell you. The company is already not solvent enough to offer populated playfield swaps (as jack said in his call to HarryHoudini), and cutting a good chunk of future sales off is not a good way to achieve profitability.

Burning to the ground??? LOL... Come on people, can we stop with the hyperbole?
Jeff

It sounds a bit over the top however if the notion that JJP has yet to turn a profit is correct, this is something that could very well be the final nail in the coffin. Let's not fool ourselves into thinking that JJP is a successful business. On their own they would not have made it past Hobbit.

If you don't think this isn't an issue with some major ramifications for JJP, I don't know what to tell you. The company is already not solvent enough to offer populated playfield swaps (as jack said in his call to HarryHoudini), and cutting a good chunk of future sales off is not a good way to achieve profitability.

There's a huge difference between major issue and burning to the ground... Why is it everything has to be one extreme or the other these days? Yes this is serious, yes JJP has yet to do the right thing, but it seems a bit premature to give the company an expiration date...

Maybe his "trip" is going to Germany to see WTF Mirco is doing wrong. Jack is WELL aware of playfield issues (he sold me a Funhouse pf) and it was beyond worthless. It too had pooling, chipping, cracking and mis drilled holes (not only mis drilled 1/8" but crooked!) I offered to ship it back and radio silence. After I filed a charge back (snd won), then Jack suddenly wanted it back. Being a man of my word I shipped it and requested he personally look at it and if my word holds true I'd like the shipping refunded. It cost me $80 to shop that junk back and he never did refund me let alone reply about it.

It sounds a bit over the top however if the notion that JJP has yet to turn a profit is correct, this is something that could very well be the final nail in the coffin. Let's not fool ourselves into thinking that JJP is a successful business. On their own they would not have made it past Hobbit.

Your correct and their money is not more important than my money so at the end of the day I could really care less what happens to them if they can’t properly run the company.

Do I want them to go tits up? Absolutely not, but they need to get their shit in order and fast.

There's a huge difference between major issue and burning to the ground... Why is it everything has to be one extreme or the other these days? Yes this is serious, yes JJP has yet to do the right thing, but it seems a bit premature to give the company an expiration date...
Jeff

Actually the first step in a company burning to the ground would be a major issue. That’s how it usually happens. No? And for your one extreme or the other comment. A bad PF is the most extreme issue you can have in a pin. Give me something that’s worst. Wake up man. This is going to have a large negative effect of JJP one way or the other. I mean I don’t actually see a way they get out of this without a huge hit to the business. Admit you had a problem then solved it and you admitted guilt for all those bad PFs you sent out there. Keep ignoring people while admitting nothing and your reputation in the community is toast.

Actually the first step in a company burning to the ground would be a major issue. That’s how it usually happens. No? And for your one extreme or the other comment. A bad PF is the most extreme issue you can have in a pin. Give me something that’s worst. Wake up man. This is going to have a large negative effect of JJP one way or the other. I mean I don’t actually see a way they get out of this without a huge hit to the business. Admit you had a problem then solved it and you admitted guilt for all those bad PFs you sent out there. Keep ignoring people while admit nothing and your reputation in the community is toast.

People have SUPER short memories these days... If JJP fixes their play field issues, no one is going to remember for very long... That's the reality of the world we live in today...

People have SUPER short memories these days... If JJP fixes their play field issues, no one is going to remember for very long... That's the reality of the world we live in today...
Jeff

I think you mean if JJP fixes their PF issues and sends everyone with a defective PF a new populated PF no one is going to remember very long. Cause that’s the only way customers with bad PFs will feel whole and forgive JJP. Why? Because Stern has already done this for their customers. JJP looks horrible to not do what one or more of their competitors already did. Saying you can’t afford to give populated PFs isnt going to get them out of this.

I really want to see pics of these playfields that have 0 pooling around any of the posts

This! Mine had pooling day 1. I installed the washer kit on the small posts about 50 or so games in. I’m now around 400 games and the pooling has moved around the added washers; my original posts had the factory clear tiny washers fwiw.

Adding star washers will likely move pooling further outward so I may try Mylar under the washer, under the post. I think vireland has had good success there.

This! Mine had pooling day 1. I installed the washer kit on the small posts about 50 or so games in. I’m now around 400 games and the pooling has moved around the added washers; my original posts had the factory clear tiny washers fwiw.
Adding star washers will likely move pooling further outward so I may try Mylar under the washer, under the post. I think vireland has had good success there.

Ughh...really? Everyone suspected this would happen but you're the first I've heard saying it happened

Ughh...really? Everyone suspected this would happen but you're the first I've heard saying it happened

Ya it’s a bummer as I meticulously laid the washers over the prior ripples to flatten things out. I can post pics later if people are still interested. Slings have been turned all the way down since around game 20. Is what it is I suppose but so enjoy the game a ton!

I think you mean if JJP fixes their PF issues and sends everyone with a defective PF a new populated PF no one is going to remember very long. Cause that’s the only way customers with bad PFs will feel whole and forgive JJP

Yeah, like how everyone forgave JJP and kept buying games after they gave WOZ owners all those lightning kits to fix their defective lightning... oh wait..

No, they still have to pay nearly $800 years and years later. I guess people do forget!

Yeah, like how everyone forgave JJP and kept buying games after they gave WOZ owners all those lightning kits to fix their defective lightning... oh wait..
No, they still have to pay nearly $800 years and years later. I guess people do forget!

Oh those boards that were hidden? Those? Meanwhile that bubbling chipping playfield will be staring their owners in the face every time they pull that plunger. This is not just replacing a part and making your game whole again. A bad playfield is forever. Actually it won’t last anywhere near forever. I’ll ask again. What is worse than a bad playfield in a pin..........

For reasons unrelated to the playfield issues, I have a NIB CE sitting in my garage. By serial number I'm guessing mfg date of around 12/15/18. Still won't be taking it out of box for logistical reasons, but will likely be a year before I can assess it properly. Hopefully by then whatever solidification the clear is capable of doing will have established itself. And there will be a better idea as to how to handle this.

For reasons unrelated to the playfield issues, I have a NIB CE sitting in my garage. By serial number I'm guessing mfg date of around 12/15/18. Still won't be taking it out of box for logistical reasons, but will likely be a year before I can assess it properly. Hopefully by then whatever solidification the clear is capable of doing will have established itself. And there will be a better idea as to how to handle this.

These posts are rippling with no plays. Likely due to the force of the post being installed and pushed in to the clear. Sorry to say but your game won't be immune from this. I hope you have a perfect game though, that's what we all want from a nib

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