Worthless people like this shouldn't be allowed to have kids. Meanwhile other people put off having any kids until they are financial sound so they can afford to raise them. Idiocracy might be a depiction of true events.

If you can't afford to support a child, then just be more responsible in terms of sex? Aka, don't do it? I'm all for sex, but not if you're going to push out 12 babies and then beg the state to help. I think social safety nets are flawed, but necessary. This lady just gives ammo to conservatives.

The thing is the lady didn't say, I don't like like other people paying for my responsibilities...she said someone needs to take responsibility. She needs to start with the mirror, take a look at herself and make a change. (not sure why MJ is in my head)

If you can't afford to support a child, then just be more responsible in terms of sex? Aka, don't do it? I'm all for sex, but not if you're going to push out 12 babies and then beg the state to help.

Click to expand...

I haven't been able to watch the video yet, but the problem is that this appears to be exactly the opposite of human behavior. Those least qualified to raise children are the most prolific, while more qualified people defer having children longer and longer until we're no longer viable or have to go through fertility hoops to create them.

EDIT: Mein Gott im Himmel. Those bishops who don't want the church to have to pay health insurance companies to provide contraception should be made to watch this video over and over until they gain some common sense.

I haven't been able to watch the video yet, but the problem is that this appears to be exactly the opposite of human behavior. Those least qualified to raise children are the most prolific, while more qualified people defer having children longer and longer until we're no longer viable or have to go through fertility hoops to create them.

I haven't been able to watch the video yet, but the problem is that this appears to be exactly the opposite of human behavior. Those least qualified to raise children are the most prolific, while more qualified people defer having children longer and longer until we're no longer viable or have to go through fertility hoops to create them.

EDIT: Mein Gott im Himmel. Those bishops who don't want the church to have to pay health insurance companies to provide contraception should be made to watch this video over and over until they gain some common sense.

Click to expand...

I mean, looking at it in the evolutionary psychological sense, it somewhat makes sense. Of course we're not evolving anymore, but old habits die hard. In the grip of poverty and lack if proper food and nutrition, some people may succumb to their instinct of proliferating heavily in an attempt to ensure the survival of their genes.

Of course, I agree with what you said about contraception. This whole war on Planned Parenthood and the like is really somewhat scary; the fact that access to contraceptives and proper education could prevent cases like in the OP really makes you wonder about the "moral majority".

I mean, looking at it in the evolutionary psychological sense, it somewhat makes sense. Of course we're not evolving anymore, but old habits die hard. In the grip of poverty and lack if proper food and nutrition, some people may succumb to their instinct of proliferating heavily in an attempt to ensure the survival of their genes.

Click to expand...

Yes, I don't think just blaming poor people will solve anything. Arguably moving as many of them as possible into some kind of middle class lifestyle should produce the same benefits for them as it did for the rest of us. My parents had 8 and 9 siblings, respectively, which was common in India in the 30s and 40s when they were born, for the infant mortality and eldercare reasons you raise, and I don't think any of that small army of uncles and aunties has more than three kids, which of course still gives me an insane number of cousins In India, you still see that in poor populations but it's pretty unheard of in the middle class, which of course is still not enough for them to tame their population growth curve.

I wonder what else is necessary. Forced sterilization programs were an awful idea, but you do almost wonder if at some point there is some kind of competency issue involved (and women like this one would arguably be no longer competent to continue making their own reproductive choices).

Just looking actuarially, the likely costs associated with those 15 children over the next 70-80 years when they may be alive is frightful, including the fact that, statistically, it is highly likely that some of them will end up incarcerated at some point, others will end up on some kind of welfare program, etc. Our society does not have a structure that is likely to lead many of these children to an adulthood in which they are independent living and gainfully employed.

It raises a hard question also of how we are supposed to compete with the developing world if we spend our resources on solving this kind of problem instead of developing talent.

Of course, I agree with what you said about contraception. This whole war on Planned Parenthood and the like is really somewhat scary; the fact that access to contraceptives and proper education could prevent cases like in the OP really makes you wonder about the "moral majority".

Click to expand...

Here's the thing we have to remind ourselves. Access to contraception is irrelevant if the person is not willing to be responsible in the first place. Do you really believe someone who wants others to "take responsibility" for them would be responsible enough to "take responsibility" for themselves in the heat of the moment?

Our society does not have a structure that is likely to lead many of these children to an adulthood in which they are independent living and gainfully employed.

Click to expand...

Actually, foster care and adoption do provide many children with the opportunity to learn the skills they need to be independent and responsible. Does it save every child? No, but each one it does save matters.

Here's the thing we have to remind ourselves. Access to contraception is irrelevant if the person is not willing to be responsible in the first place. Do you really believe someone who wants others to "take responsibility" for them would be responsible enough to "take responsibility" for themselves in the heat of the moment?

Click to expand...

This is where I think the hard question (like whether someone who is not MR or otherwise significantly decision-impaired in a general way can be incompetent to make reproductive choices) comes up.

Actually, foster care and adoption do provide many children with the opportunity to learn the skills they need to be independent and responsible. Does it save every child? No, but each one it does save matters.

Click to expand...

Yes, Michigan is putting some good infrastructure in place to increase access to college and job training for kids who are aging out of foster care. I don't know that much about outcome rates in this population; I would be particularly concerned about young African American kids, especially if they don't make it through high school by the time they age out of foster care.

This. I hate the idea of "I am my brother's keeper". I am not nor do I wish to be. I have no problem with pointing my brother in the right direction, but I refuse to take responsibility for you.

Click to expand...

Yeah... I guess the problem with this is always, once the child has been created, what does one do? If one doesn't do anything now, one doesn't necessarily escape cost (e.g. having to pay for incarcerating them as well as the cost to productivity their crime creates in the first place, which is not cheap).

Yeah... I guess the problem with this is always, once the child has been created, what does one do? If one doesn't do anything now, one doesn't necessarily escape cost (e.g. having to pay for incarcerating them as well as the cost to productivity their crime creates in the first place, which is not cheap).

Click to expand...

Yeah, it's a catch 22. I don't blame a child for their parents' lack of responsibility.

Worthless people like this shouldn't be allowed to have kids. Meanwhile other people put off having any kids until they are financial sound so they can afford to raise them. Idiocracy might be a depiction of true events.

The thing is the lady didn't say, I don't like like other people paying for my responsibilities...she said someone needs to take responsibility. She needs to start with the mirror, take a look at herself and make a change. (not sure why MJ is in my head)

Click to expand...

The thing is, it's too late for her. What would her child care bill be?

Of course, I agree with what you said about contraception. This whole war on Planned Parenthood and the like is really somewhat scary; the fact that access to contraceptives and proper education could prevent cases like in the OP really makes you wonder about the "moral majority".

Click to expand...

Right wing fundamentalists rejoice when it comes to the Duggars making a fortune off their reality "human breeder" shows but find it repulsive when the people involved have a different color skin.

Here's the thing we have to remind ourselves. Access to contraception is irrelevant if the person is not willing to be responsible in the first place. Do you really believe someone who wants others to "take responsibility" for them would be responsible enough to "take responsibility" for themselves in the heat of the moment?

Actually, foster care and adoption do provide many children with the opportunity to learn the skills they need to be independent and responsible. Does it save every child? No, but each one it does save matters.

Click to expand...

So you don't think the national discussion on reproductive rights and responsibilities has anything to do with it? I think it does.

Saw this last night and was very frustrated with it. One on hand I want to feel sorry for the situation she and her kids are currently in, but on the other hand I want her to realize that it's nobody's responsibility but hers to take care of those kids. It would be one thing if she asked for help, but to demand it and act as though she has had no fault in their current situation is an entirely different matter.

This isn't someone who accidentally ended up with multiple sets of twins or triplets, or someone who was raped and ended up with children she didn't want - this woman had a large number of children with the same man, and then turns around with her hands out asking for others to support her active decision to have sex and reproduce. She takes it a step further to threaten social service workers when they try to assess the situation and help.

Her sister even chimes in about how they just want to get their family back and they just want everyone to leave them alone, yet I don't remember seeing anything about the sister trying to help feed them when they had no food, or get them clothes when they were wearing the same dirty clothes for 3 days, or offering her home as a place to help them stay when they were all squeezed in a motel room. It seems she's more than willing to allow the state to support her sister rather than help support her herself. Not saying that family members have to do this, just saying that I don't think it's right for her to chime in without being willing to do anything (at least as far as we've seen thus far). Another family member was supposed to take the children (or some of them) to help, but after meeting with the mother about it he decided he didn't want to anymore. Really? Those kids need stability and food and shelter, it is way beyond what the mother wants at this point.

I certainly hope that people don't think that "liberals" or pretty much anyone supports people like this. I'm pretty darn liberal, but I don't believe anyone who isn't well off should be having twelve kids (well, I don't think ANYONE should have twelve kids, but that's my opinion). And, forgive me for believing that this lady was never well off.

I fully support public programs to assist families in need, but this is beyond what I can support.

MacRumors attracts a broad audience
of both consumers and professionals interested in
the latest technologies and products. We also boast an active community focused on
purchasing decisions and technical aspects of the iPhone, iPod, iPad, and Mac platforms.