No surprise there! LOL! "Lying for Jesus" is nothing new. In christian fundamentialism it's obligatory. Lying for Jesus about anything to do with LGBT people is a time honored holy cause.

Do you remember back this summer/fall when this story broke in regards to Attorneys hired by Houston Mayor Annise Parker trying to seize copies of sermons from area fundamentalist churches?

Had they succeeded in that and proven the churches had violated the 501(c) regulations that prevent them from using church property, assets, services and employees from being used for political purposes the mayor could have sued the churches and ministers out of business. That issue can become a hot topic now that the jury voted that the scam petition is totally invalid due to the acts of a dozen individuals who are all associated with the mega church that initiated the petition to begin with.

Wow, more than 13K forged signatures? (the article said of the 30K signatures, the petition was "well below" the 17K needed).

That's ballsy. I mean, fraud is fraud, but I could maybe see a person thinking they could pepper in a few signature, perhaps 5 or 10 percent. But roughly 40 to 50 percent of signatures? That's not padding, that's just stupidity.

Fraud is WRONG always. But if you insist upon lying, at least do so cleverly where you stand a chance of getting away with it. This is just amateur hour BS.

You're partially right Svnw. It's a crime and should be treated as one. The people who conspired to do this should be prosecuted.

It's more clear evidence these people (christian fundamentalists) will stop at nothing to in pursuit of furthering their agenda against gays.

On other threads I've talked about how eventually, when they've run out of other options they'll inevitably resort to acts of terrorism in attempts to repeal all the advances that have been made for LGBT. It's not like it's rocket science to see it.

bobbobbob saidYou're partially right Svnw. It's a crime and should be treated as one. The people who conspired to do this should be prosecuted.

It's more clear evidence these people (christian fundamentalists) will stop at nothing to in pursuit of furthering their agenda against gays.

On other threads I've talked about how eventually, when they've run out of other options they'll inevitably resort to acts of terrorism in attempts to repeal all the advances that have been made for LGBT. It's not like it's rocket science to see it.

Quite true, and it's nothing new.

Back in the 1970s, when some cities were enacting ordinances proscribing discrimination based on affectional orientation, the opposition was claiming that if such an ordinance were enacted, all the gay people in the countries would migrate to that city. Of course it never happened; it revealed how dishonest the opposition was.

They also claimed that gay persons cannot reproduce and that therefore they have to recruit. It was their position that people are gay only because they have been recruited and that unless there is complete suppression, so many people will be recruited into the "gay life" that the population will decline. Many asserted that the decline and fall of Rome was the fault of gay persons.

There is no limit to the lies that the opposition will tell if they think that they can get away with it. The Command "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor" is something they think does not apply to them.

bobbobbob saidYou're partially right Svnw. It's a crime and should be treated as one. The people who conspired to do this should be prosecuted.

It's more clear evidence these people (christian fundamentalists) will stop at nothing to in pursuit of furthering their agenda against gays.

On other threads I've talked about how eventually, when they've run out of other options they'll inevitably resort to acts of terrorism in attempts to repeal all the advances that have been made for LGBT. It's not like it's rocket science to see it.

What? That seems non-sequitor, I don't follow. After the Civil Rights Act (from employment to public accommodations) there were LOTS of THREATS, and a few isolated incidents of terrorism/violence. However, there was no talk about repealing the legislation.

How, pray tell, would blowing up gay bars or gay owned businesses--which could be done right now, by the way--repeal "equal marriage" the Supreme Court (will likely) implement, or future ENDA legislation? You're seriously positing that domestic terrorism will be so effective, and it won't be outed that the "right" is doing it--not a single whistleblower--and politicians will cave to terrorist demands?

"To stop the bombing, we have to repeal 'gay'" will be argued on the Senate floor? Is that what you're suggesting?

Svnw688 said"To stop the bombing, we have to repeal 'gay'" will be argued on the Senate floor? Is that what you're suggesting?

First, you're not using the same logic that the Right Wing nut jobs use. Your logic is... logical. Their logic is fanatical, religion based, and ideological. True logic plays no part in their thinking.

Second, such anti-gay terror attacks would bolster the Right's argument that the American people do not approve of gay civil rights and same-sex marriage. These, they argue, are the result of activist courts, that flaunt the will of the people in a democracy. And so therefore the people have risen up to reject them, in an exercise of democratic principles (small letter "d').

Crazy as it may sound, that's how these crazies think. And if nothing else, acts of violence against gays become acts of revenge, expressing personal rage & hatred. So yes, I would expect to see incidents of anti-gay terrorism as a result of gay discrimination being declared unconstitutional by the courts, and made illegal by legislative bodies.

Wow, that's really sad some conservatives think like that. Personally, I can't ever imagine using violence as a political weapon in modern US society.

That would certainly be a cold and chilling calculus those politicians would be using. Kind of reminds me of the "false flag" conspiracy that asserts Bush was behind 9/11 and needed the bloodshed to authorize the war in Iraq. While I've looked into the theory, I don't buy it. Bush isn't that smart, and the government isn't that effective. There'd be a whistleblower or leaked document. A smoking gun by now.

Lack of evidence IS evidence when the claim requires 100% government coordination and efficiency.

All I can say is that I sincerely hope no violence comes from "equal marriage" and, eventually, ENDA legislation to protect LGBT workers from being harassed and terminated on the job.

Wow, that's really sad some conservatives think like that. Personally, I can't ever imagine using violence as a political weapon in modern US society.

That would certainly be a cold and chilling calculus those politicians would be using. Kind of reminds me of the "false flag" conspiracy that asserts Bush was behind 9/11 and needed the bloodshed to authorize the war in Iraq. While I've looked into the theory, I don't buy it. Bush isn't that smart, and the government isn't that effective. There'd be a whistleblower or leaked document. A smoking gun by now.

Lack of evidence IS evidence when the claim requires 100% government coordination and efficiency.

All I can say is that I sincerely hope no violence comes from "equal marriage" and, eventually, ENDA legislation to protect LGBT workers from being harassed and terminated on the job.

No true conservative would think like that. They are not conservatives; they are crazy reactionaries.

FRE0 saidNo true conservative would think like that. They are not conservatives; they are crazy reactionaries.

"True" conservatives, no. Did I ever tell you I corresponded with William F. Buckley, Jr. in the early 1970s? Lovely & gracious man, met and rode with him in his limousine in NYC. (A funny story in itself. An eccentric maroon Checker, based on the ubiquitous cab of that era). An icon of "true" conservatives, and a man I could admire, though not entirely agree with, even in my own "Republican days". Influenced more by my family when I was young than by my own experiences in later life.

I know that not all conservatives are lunatics. But that was over 40 years ago. I'm talking today.

The US Right has been radicalized, and "fundamentalized". And the reactionaries are in charge. Wake up and smell the coffee. It's not your father's conservative party any more, nor mine.

FRE0 saidNo true conservative would think like that. They are not conservatives; they are crazy reactionaries.

"True" conservatives, no. Did I ever tell you I corresponded with William F. Buckley, Jr. in the early 1970s? Lovely & gracious man, met and rode with him in his limousine in NYC. (A funny story in itself. An eccentric maroon Checker, based on the ubiquitous cab of that era). An icon of "true" conservatives, and a man I could admire, though not entirely agree with, even in my own "Republican days". Influenced more by my family when I was young than by my own experiences in later life.

I know that not all conservatives are lunatics. But that was over 40 years ago. I'm talking today.

The US Right has been radicalized, and "fundamentalized". And the reactionaries are in charge. Wake up and smell the coffee. It's not your father's conservative party any more, nor mine.

Wow, that's really sad some conservatives think like that. Personally, I can't ever imagine using violence as a political weapon in modern US society.

That would certainly be a cold and chilling calculus those politicians would be using. Kind of reminds me of the "false flag" conspiracy that asserts Bush was behind 9/11 and needed the bloodshed to authorize the war in Iraq. While I've looked into the theory, I don't buy it. Bush isn't that smart, and the government isn't that effective. There'd be a whistleblower or leaked document. A smoking gun by now.

Lack of evidence IS evidence when the claim requires 100% government coordination and efficiency.

All I can say is that I sincerely hope no violence comes from "equal marriage" and, eventually, ENDA legislation to protect LGBT workers from being harassed and terminated on the job.

@Svnw688I'm glad ArtDeco spoke up to explain exactly what I did to you with my first comment about this. I told you that in order to understand this you had to accept that what you think is irrelevant. All that's relevant is the way christian fundamentalists think. The subject of this thread illustrates the extremes they are willing to go, regardless of laws, to achieve their agendas. You only need look at their history to see more examples of this and just how far they will go to impose their religious bigotry on others.

And their game plan is pretty much predictable. They'll try every possible legal trick to pass laws that don't have a chance. They'll do that until they run out of ideas. Then as soon as one of them decides to bomb a gay church, a gay business, or anything else associated with LGBT they will make low key statement of support for the act then more will come.

We hear all the gruesome news of violence in the middle east and people in the US believe it has never happened here and never could because we care too much about human rights. But it has happened here and it will again.

Quote of one event from wikipedia."December 25, 1984: An abortion clinic and two physicians' offices in Pensacola, Florida, were bombed in the early morning of Christmas Day by a quartet of young people (Matt Goldsby, Jimmy Simmons, Kathy Simmons, Kaye Wiggins) who later called the bombings "a gift to Jesus on his birthday."[22][23][24] The clinic, the Ladies Center, would later be the site of the murder of Dr. John Britton and James Barrett in 1994 and a firebombing in 2012."

You can "sincerely hope" all you want but you can't give one time in history that "hope" has ever changed things. It would be more honest to say you really don't want to face this reality and prefer to pretend it can't happen.

Let us not forget that it was in the "Bible Belt" where racism was most serious. The KKK organized lynchings which were attended by thousands of spectators as the result of advertising in newspapers and arranging special trains to get the people there. People cheated as black victims were hanged or burned to death. Jim Crow was at its worst in the "Bible Belt".

The fundamentalists cannot be relied upon to act honestly and morally. The Biblical commands to love one's neighbor as oneself and not to bear false witness don't seem important to them.

FRE0 saidLet us not forget that it was in the "Bible Belt" where racism was most serious. The KKK organized lynchings which were attended by thousands of spectators as the result of advertising in newspapers and arranging special trains to get the people there. People cheated as black victims were hanged or burned to death. Jim Crow was at its worst in the "Bible Belt".

The fundamentalists cannot be relied upon to act honestly and morally. The Biblical commands to love one's neighbor as oneself and not to bear false witness don't seem important to them.

I'm not defending racism anywhere. Just the whole picture needs to be presented when it is discussed to make sure it is not seen just as a southern "bible belt" KKK, Jim Crow phenomenon as popular fables like to make people believe.

KissTheSky saidI guess Christians get to ignore the commandment that says "Thou shalt not lie."I'm so surprised to hear that this group of conservatives turned out to be a bunch of hypocritical cheats.

There is no such commandment. However, there is a commandment, "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.". That should cover it.

KissTheSky saidI guess Christians get to ignore the commandment that says "Thou shalt not lie."I'm so surprised to hear that this group of conservatives turned out to be a bunch of hypocritical cheats.

There is no such commandment. However, there is a commandment, "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.". That should cover it.

FRE0 saidLet us not forget that it was in the "Bible Belt" where racism was most serious. The KKK organized lynchings which were attended by thousands of spectators as the result of advertising in newspapers and arranging special trains to get the people there. People cheated as black victims were hanged or burned to death. Jim Crow was at its worst in the "Bible Belt".

The fundamentalists cannot be relied upon to act honestly and morally. The Biblical commands to love one's neighbor as oneself and not to bear false witness don't seem important to them.

I'm not defending racism anywhere. Just the whole picture needs to be presented when it is discussed to make sure it is not seen just as a southern "bible belt" KKK, Jim Crow phenomenon as popular fables like to make people believe.

It is true that lynching and Jim Crow were not restricted to one part of the country. However, it was most prevalent in the Bible Belt, at least from the middle of the 19th century. When I lived in Minneapolis, I was well aware of racist attitudes, but considerable effort was being made to eliminate them.