‘We Shoot Them, Chief!!’ The Last GALACTICA Of Sweeps And The Last Before ‘Maelstrom’!!

I am – Hercules!!
What we believe we know about 3.16, titled “Dirty Hands” and co-written by “Buffy”-“Angel”-“Firefly” vet Jane Espenson, in invisotext:
* Cally is still recovering.
* Laborers have been working 18-hour days for months to process enough fuel to facilitate fleet FTL jumps.
* While incarcerated, Gaius Baltar has apparently written a book that is proving popular with the fleet’s working class.
* Galen Tyrol seeks out Baltar’s counsel.
* Tyrol is convinced to organize a strike.
* With Cally under the weather, Tyrol’s superhot underling, Seelix, seems to take an interest in the chief.
* Tyrol ends up in stir, accused of mutiny.
And here’s what the Chicago Tribune said about next week’s episode, “Maelstrom”:
“Moore adds that after the March 4 episode airs, the name of a major cast member will disappear from the show’s opening credits. They won’t say whether Sackhoff’s name is the one that goes missing. But they do make clear that what happens to Starbuck points the way to a major shift in the show’s direction. ‘It’s a fundamental and permanent change in the makeup of the show’s cast and of the show itself and how the show operates and what the show is about. It’s a very dramatic change of direction,’ [showrunner Ronald D.] Moore says.”
Read all of the Trib’s long Jan. 8 interview with Moore here.
10 p.m. Sunday. SciFi.

Moore could be leading us off into Timbuktu. I don't know. What I DO know is that he's keeping the trip interesting the whole time. And really, that's all we ask. This could all be pointless filler, but it certainly doesn't *feel* that way right now.
JJ Abrams, Lost writers (and everyone else suffering from X-files syndrome), please take note on how to do it right.
Thanks,
-A guy who really wants to enjoy Lost as much as he did in Season One.

Just in different ways. BSG has had some really strong episodes and deserves a lot of credit, but it's very inconsistent for me and has never lived up to the strong promise of the first half of season one. I stopped caring if I see it or not, which is unfortunate. Maybe I'm jaded in my old age. Nothing on TV today is doing much for me, Sci Fi-wise. I DO like heroes so far, but they're introducing so many new characters that I'm afraid it's going to go the way of Lost.

Number one is that Abrams has had many more opportunities to screw up (All of "Alias", more seasons of "Lost", etc). Thus his body of mediocrity is much larger. But to be fair, Moore has the "oppotunity" to catch up to Abrams.<p>
Also I think BSG has held itself together much better than any Abrams production, but that's a matter of opinion. However, JJ Abrams fatal flaw (not being able to finish off interesting premises) is well established with two series now.<p>
I don't necessarily even mean to jump on Abrams too much. Super talented guy, but I just wish he could finish that final mile in his works to create true greatness. It could just be the current way TV is setup that's hurting him, but it's still a shame to see that potential wasted (that annoys me more than anything about him).

I guess it's the same problem of familiarity breeds contempt. To some extent we're now in the third year of our relationship with these characters and we've got to know them and understand how they work. So, the problem for the writers is how can they keep surprising us week-in week-out. One way is to make the characters do unpredictable/unexpected things which can fall flat on it's face if it just a case of pulling stuff out of nowhere with no explanation or you have to spend time filling in back-story for why they might have done that. The latter is of course best, but does take time out from the here-and-now and you run the risk of losing the main focus and, more importantly, casual viewers (and the "I want more guns and space battles types"). I quite liked last weeks episode with Adama's marriage. It's always a bit more interesting when you get to find out something more about the characters that you can then relate to how they operate. Of course, if it's all forgotten about and never referred to again then it's just dull. One other option is "newness." If you regularly introduce new characters then they are unpredictable by definition and they allow exploration and interaction. Of course, having a large number of characters, a la Lost, means that you can shift focus regularly and avoid the characters from becoming too familiar too quickly. That's quite tricky to pull off and I notice that Lost's been losing viewers - they need to bring back some focus. Let's face it, having an attention span of more than 10 minutes is wasted for most of what's on TV. From my own perspective, I'd rather have decent character development over gun battles, fun though they are, but unless the character development goes somewhere beyond that particular episode no amount of gun battles and quality sfx is going to save your arse from cancellation.
I've only seen a few episodes of Heroes - bittorrented since I'm not in the US - and it wasn't too bad. I'll stick with it and see how it goes. For me; the most uninteresting show so far has been The Dresden Files.

Because you know it only has at most 2 more seasons. Which actually might be fine. Not every show has to run 7 seasons to be good. Did Next Gen set that whole 7 season standard?
<p>
Star Trek show Prime Directive. tinyurl.com/38fcbn

There have been so many filler episodes since Baltar was captured [and no Baltar trial] that Gaius has had enough time to write a freakin' book. It would be cool, however, if just like his software code, the book was somehow "infected" by the Cylons, who planted secret codes in it that drive you crazy if you read it. OK, that's kind of hokey, but I'd still like it.

Worst fucking politician ever. Off the Cylon bitch!
<p> Cylon you say? Cylon?
<p> Why do you think the baby blood healed her? Why was it or the antibodies derived from it in Laura never used or mentioned again?
<p> Think of it a cure for cancer and no one ever uses it again. Would that really happen in a fleet desperate for medicine?
<p> Add to that all her decisions are the worst for the fleet but serve her own self interests and veiled purpose and one can only conclude she is a Cylon.

If the colonies have FTL drive and actively in space how come there are not any outposts? There are no other colonized planets, no wacko cults floating through space or on a colonized planet, no space explorers, nothing. Were their space activities limited to their immediate solar system? Even then should there not be rescource scouts somewhere?

yesterday):<p>
Loved the fact that Cally & Chief live in the exact same bunk as Helo & Athena.
<p>
I actually thought it was a good episode. Could've done without the airlock, but hey, it wasn't that bad. It was nice seeing Adama acting consistent to his character for once.
<p>
Ok, no one mentioned this in the TB, so I have to ask: was Adama in bed with a chick at the start of the episode?
<p>
Chromedome said something nice about me *blush*

Remember, nobody liked the FTL Drive at the start of the show, they were all scared of it. So even though they had it, I doubt very few people used it outside of the military ... heck, maybe within the military.

I hope I am not going to bee too sad by the passing of a regular character. Itnwont be Starbuck. She'll be back. <p> And its got to be Roslin for Cylon/ Its the on;y one that could make sense (maybe Cottle too). It cant be another Glactica crew member.

"just because they had it doesn't mean they used it"
You are kidding right?
Using the pleasure ship as an example, if it were in geosynchronous orbit it would not need FTL. If it cruised the solar system it would make use of it.
Obviously it was in use.
<p> This is just another BSG technological inconsistency.
<p> For example an obvious militaristic society as they are in would surely have adapted FTL into weaponry. Their leaders knew of the Cylon threat and would have been going gung ho to create new and better weapons. Yet we don't even see an energy beam weapon. Not to mention how excited they were to invent a stealth ship, which vanished as a tool in the arsenal.
<p> The mindset of the show does not factually reflect either the dire straights they are in or the culture they live in.

while there are lots of inconsistencies (ummm why hasn't everyone been drafted? You are down to 45,000 people. It is time to throw everything you have at survival.) Ftl isn't one of them. Remember that they did have a treaty with the cylons which turned over parts of space to them. So their ability to explore was limited. I'm much more irritated that they made a special rescue mission back to Caprica to look for survivors but there hasn't been any mention of "Hey, if there were people on Caprica, maybe there are some left on the other colonies?" Again, if you are down to 45,000 people, even if you can only find one or two people, it is worth it. Even though the colonies were nuked, there have to be tons of resources back there that they could salvage.

After the 5th episode of the season, the writers essentially worked to "reset" the story to before last season's cliffhanger. First they get rid of the Pegasus. Then Tigh goes from being the drunk outcast to being back as XO. Not to mention to what logically happened to Apollo and Helo, ranking wise. How does a Battlestar Commander (Apollo) suddenly end up as Captain? And Helo goes from Lt. Commander and XO to one week Captain, and then the next week LT., and then last week Captain again. Those seem like demotions to me, and not very consistent ones at that. Starbuck leaves her husband, nullifying that marriage. Roslin ends up as President again, even though Tom Zarek was the Vice President, and it goes against character for him to so willingly give up power. What about Sharon? She goes from cylon prisoner to accepted fighter pilot again. The only seemingly long standing change to the series (Baltar being with the Cylons) was also reversed 2 episodes ago when he was brought back to the Galactica. My prediction is that they will find some reason to make him the fleet's scientist again, completing the reseting of the series back to the beginning. This all begs the question, what was the point of last season's great finale, or the 1st 4 episodes of this season. The writers are obviously afraid to take this show in exciting new directions, and that is the reason why the show feels stagnant. From the ratings, it seems like a lot of fans feel the same way.

I think I read somewhere once that the reason Star Trek: TNG, DS9 & Voy did the 7 season thing was because that was the minimum amount they needed before they could be syndicated. It's changed to 4 or 5 seasons since (I could be wrong).
<P>
And poop - I thought 3.16 was the Maelstrom episode. ah well, bring on next week.

No, it's always been about 100 episodes to be syndicated...of course, TNG and DS9 were syndicated to begin with. The reason for 7 seasons for TNG, iirc, was because they wanted to put the TNG cast into to movies. After that, it kinda became the standard.<p>
As for the Pleasure Ship, I imagine the whole point of it was for one to travel between the colonies in a leisurely manner. Consider our own solar system: it takes two hours at the speed of light to reach the Pluto Formerly Known As a Planet. Who needs a pleasure ship when travelling just 5 minutes between colonies? My guess is that FTL became standard starship design after the Cylon War for emergency/attack reasons.

How can their sector of the universe be limited? Essentially your idea makes it seem as if the Cylons had them surrounded 360 degrees.
<p> That just was not the case.
<p> The problem is the background culture was not that well thought out. They just updated the original series.
<p> Odds are they had FTL well before the lost colony left. Unless the lost colony was a generation type ship. But that wouldn't explain any of the hints they have been leaving. It would have taken far too many generations to reach the various points the hints were left. By then the other colonies would have been rumors like Atlantis.
<p> Even if they had FTL only since the Cylon wars that is a hell of a long time to explore other solar systems for rescources. That means they established bases or colonies.
<p> Assuming there is regular trade between those bases or colonies that means a fairly substantial amount of spacefaring traffic. We see that in the amount of cargo ships in the remaining fleet.
<p> We also see private ships with FTL. Again suggesting that individuals or corporations had the ability to travel beyond the solar system.
<p> That means there should be more humans out there than we see.
<p> And also why haven't they encountered aliens yet? Even alien animal life. Plus they tend to hop right on a planet not caring about bacteria or virus.
<p> The fact remains that the science part of the show is very weak.

Big, cool rubber faced critters and killer EFX planets cost money as do on-location shooting to make that planet expedition look cool. Sets and personal stories are cheaper to produce - fewer characters are traditionally in it and fewer earn a full paycheck. This is still a pricey show even with today's efx capabilities and the reduced need to build ships and other space props. FI NBC bought into it and it had the highest ratings of any sci fi show . . . wait . . . wait. That was BSG - the original. A million bucks an episode, and the highest rated ABC series and they pulled it. Too expensive. I hope that with increase sucess of full on CGI movies like 300 and Sin City that a whole new take can be made on a sci-fi series. It would be interesting for actors to work with nothing but green, but what a world that could be created. And I am leaving out World of Tomorrow, tho' it was ok.

You must define "filler episodes" as ones without boobies or explosions. Every single episode, whether it has a resolution in that ep or not, has contributed to the milieu of the BSG universe. Every. Single. One. Christ, you people are whiny, fucking retards.

Love this show. Really do. Yet more and more questions pop up and are never answered. For the first time ever I recorded it last week. Don't even know if I will watch it tonight. It does get old hearing about stuff such as the Cylon's have a plan yet we never get any full answers about that plan. The writers better get off their asses and finish what they started. Wrap up storylines and move to new ones. The characters are exceptional. Each has so many tales to tell. Feels like the ships are simply going in a circle and the storylines are going nowhere.

remember the algae planet? saved their asses food wise.
<p>
also, there are other planets that were colonized. the people weren't all on caprica, there were lots of other planets. then some got split off behind the cylon's enemy lines and whatnot.

Even a virus could be alien and devestating. The crew runs around alien planets left and right without air tanks or surgical masks. Planets that teem with plant life.
<p> How come no one gets sick?
<p> How come no one gets a fungus?
<p> This is the type of stuff that destroyed native american cultures, so it is based in historical fact. Even an ancient virus, as the one the Cylons were so susceptable to, should have popped up by now.
<p> It is foolish to think the robots could get a disease and the humans could not.

Season 1:
The fleet is led by a lone battlestar - The Galactica.
Laura Roslin is President by default - not by election.
Apollo and Starbuck dance around their attraction for each other all season.
Sharon (a cylon) is a respected pilot in the fleet.
Tigh, a drunk, is the respected XO of the Galactica.
Baltar, as crazy as he is, is the ship's scientist and living aboard the Galactica (With Six in his head)
Season 2 does take some different turns I admit that. But then we have Season 3:
The fleet is led by a lone battlestar - The Galactica.
Laura Roslin is President by default - not by election.
Apollo and Starbuck dance around their attraction for each other all season.
Sharon (a cylon) is a respected pilot in the fleet.
Tigh, a drunk, is the respected XO of the Galactica.
Baltar, as crazy as he is, though not the ship's scientist YET, is back, alive on the Galactica with Six talking to him in his head.
Hmmmmm.....looks like they are recycling the same plots to me.

If all you're going to do is pick the show apart, why bother watching or posting? I'm sure there's an episode of Farscape or the original Galactica on somewhere you can wank off to. Sure there are holes, but overall this is easily one of the best show on TV especialy when ten years ago there was hardly any good sci-fi on TV.

EvilWizardGlick - I think you are overthinking this stuff just a bit. Granted, these are good and interesting questions. But surely all of them could be applied to just about every other beloved sci-fi franchise in history, no?<P>As for the discussion involving FTL technology, I think the central issue at the beginning was that the Galactica was/is OLD and probably had not "jumped" in quite sometime. When they were forced to start making moves after the original attack, it made the crew anxious. And let's not forget that Adama requested a jump into the Ragnar Anchorage which, apparently, was an incredibly risky maneuver.<P>Red Ned Lynch probably has some further thoughts on this. FTL technology hasn't really been "explained" like say...Warp Drive. But we do know that some ships in the Fleet have a more limited jump range than the Galactica. Even still, the Cylons have better FTL capabilities altogether.

...they have Hybrids who go all orgasmic with each jump. So of course they "practice" it a LOT, and jump farther, faster, and as often as possible.<p>Talk about your positive reinforcement!<p>Fleet FTL:I think have heard them make the point early on that many ships in the fleet have "limited" jump capability, and even earlier on that those crews were not proficient with jumping. Would make sense that a basic FTL capability would be installed as a safety precaution. Even a Pleasure Ship could have an in-flight emergency and need to someplace fast.

Its not that I dont like the show. The problem is I do, it was one of my favorites. I thought the storytelling was fresh and original. I loved the way Season 2 ended, I thought it was gutsy. Then suddenly with Episode 5 of this season, the writers have worked hard to reset the series to before last season's cliffhanger....and it makes me mad. What? The writers have no balls? Is that what happened? Can you honestly say that you or anyone else is okay with basically having last season's cliffhanger be for nothing. No lasting changes came out of that....no "game changers" or whatever you want to call it. And that is just pathetic.

I am sorry, cylons or no cylons, that episode with Helo and the racist doctor is exactly why I watch BSG. That episode was powerful, intense, and was definately needed. Helo is one of the stronger actors on the show, more so than apollo and starbuck. They need to up him to being a first tier character quickly!

Well, a few things about your "recycled plot" ideas. First, what you describe wouldn't be "recycled plots". They would represent a reset of the character dynamics, which is something fundamentally different, though I can see why, if such a thing were true, one might feel some sense of frustration. However, there are some major generalizations in your assessment that need to be addressed. First, Tigh was not the respected XO of Galactica when the show began. He was a burned out, barely tolerated for the sake of the old man, wreck of a failed career officer who was the XO on the oldest, most obsolete, about to be mothballed warship in the fleet. At this point in the show he is respected, and hated, and likely feared a bit, for the horrors he experienced and committed during his time on New Caprica. Outside of Baltar, the character arc for Tigh has been probably the most interesting in the show. The arc for Roslyn has been interesting, too, as she has gone from being the premiere defender of the pre-apocalypse governmental procedures of the Colonies to being for all intents and purposes a tyrant deriving her power solely from the power of the military. As for Zarek, it could have gone either way, but it was Zarek who played king maker, in a very public fashion, to put Baltar in the presidency. It was my belief (and perhaps the show should have brought this out more, but it seemed in keeping with how politics are played in our world) that Zarek managed to maintain some constituency by opposing Baltar and spending his time in the hole, but for him to ever hope to hold power again it was essential that he play the good soldier and back Roslyn until the stink of his part in the New Caprica debacle had receded well into the past. As for the Starbuck/Apollo relationship, I'm as tired of it as anyone, but the dynamic there, too, has fundamentally changed from the first season. The first season Starbuck was an insubordinate hothead, and her fatal flaw was in contributing to the death of Adama's other son because her love for him got in the way of her doing her job. But she was, in general, a likable character. By this point in season three Starbuck has been revealed to be selfish, maliciously manipulative, and absolutely uncaring about those around her. And Baltar's position and personality have changed so dramatically that he is almost unrecognizable as the character he was in season one of the mini, and it has been the best work the show has done, logical and horrific and true. Now none of this has to do with plot, but then neither did your complaints. And you've really picked on the wrong part of this show to bang on.

you'd know that just because certain surface aspects of the characters' positions are the same, the situation is NOT the same. In no way have they forgotten what happened on New Caprica. Not only do all the characters talk about it constantly, but even last week you saw how what happened on New Caprica affected Adama, Roslin, Cally and Chief. In previous weeks, you saw how it affected Tigh, Gaeta, Baltar, Apollo, Dualla, Starbuck and Anders. Not to mention how it affected the Cylons themselves. All of these characters have had to adjust to their situations post-New Caprica. With Baltar, they're still dealing with the fallout from New Caprica. This has been anything but a reset. It's a completely new status quo, if not in character's rank, then emotionally. So I don't know what the hell you're talking about. Do you?

How stupid ARE these whiny little b*tches? Stop whining! YOu're fighting for the preservation of the entire species, for chrissakes. Adama should cut the fleet loose and handpick a crew of people who actually have some balls. Cut the rest loose and see how they do on their own. Show is beginning to bore me - there's nobody to root for. Everyone's a spoiled, little baby.

The thought of the strike in tonight's episodes leaves me with the faint taste of vomit in my mouth, epsecially one led by Tyrol, which strikes me as striking a blow to what I really love about the show, its character work. However, there is such a thing as maintaining a genetically viable breeding base, if you want to preserve the species. And at under 40,000 the colonists are edging into the red zone on this already. If Adama wants to keep the species alive he really can't afford to cut too many folks loose.

Strike? Even after Adama allowed himself to get ass whooped so he could make that tearjerker of a speech? has the chief learned nothing?
<p> Realistically Adama has allowed his power/control to slip greatly. First with Lee's mutiny and numerous instances since then. His whole let the chief kick the shit out of him to prove a point was utterly foolish. It only makes him more vulnerable and proves him weak.

About the aliens and or the unknown virus, though. First, if they had run a virus killing off large numbers in the fleet after having a virus threaten to clean slate the cylons everyone, you and me included, would have been screaming bloody murder for using the same basic plot twice. They chose to use it on the cylons. Now you know as well as I do that doing it twice would have been a dramatic nightmare. And as for the lack of alien life, well there hasn't been a lack of life on planets they have landed on, there has been a lack of advanced life. And there are a growing number of scientists who are coming to believe that advanced life may be exceedingly rare in the universe. Read the book Rare Earth, for instance, for a nice assessment of just what combination of extremely unlikely factors had to fall into place for us to evolve. Now the guys are arguing their case, and I have quite a few nitpicks with some of the conclusions they draw, but their's is a valid stance. And to bang on the show's science because they have chosen this as their starting point isn't a fair cop. Now banging on shows like Star Trek for filling their universes with aliens who were more like Apple Pie Americans than a lot of people we share our planet with, as Ellison did in an essay I read a few years back, that is a fair cop. But he's a grumpy sob, and I like my Spock.

It is a commonly held belief among scientists that the Toba supervolcano in Indonesia reducing the human population to between five and ten thousand. And that if we'd lost many more we would have been done. Without getting too deep into genetic science, the problem here becomes the problem we are seeing today with the American bison. And you do see it among aboriginal peoples as well, but the bison is a good analogy because we have tried so hard to build up their numbers. Even though you can build up the herd for awhile there is an issue of low genetic variation, which ultimately effects reproductive ability and causes nasty, survival damaging mutation. At under forty thousand is the fleet there yet? No. But would Adama and his handpicked crew for the Galactica be there? Yeah.

...and I'm completely with you on Adama. Although I would put the Tyrol thing second to letting Helo get away with betraying the entire human race. But yes, unless they give us a convincing reason for Adama's behavior, this has all been just awful.

In reality, wouldn't it be a little more difficult to assimilate both crews and those "retired" ones from New Caprica onto the Galactica? How does Apollo go from being a Battlestar Commander to being demoted to below Tigh? Not to mention that the writers can't get either he or Helo's ranks right. This season could have been about so much more, including digging deeper into the divide within the crew. And most importantly there is Baltar. It was interesting to see him with the Cylons. The writers even had the opportunity to go the way of the original Baltar, and have the Cylons give him command of a Basestar. How interesting would that have been for him to now be hunting down the Galactica, a true nemesis for Adama, one who could even out think him in this race to get to Earth first. Instead he is back on the ship, and I predict that as a resolution to this upheaval that is trial is causing they will find a way to make him a part of the crew once more. And speaking on this "upheaval" with Baltar....how could anyone in the fleet even begin to take his side after what he did. He was hated by everyone....but suddenly he has followers? AND one last obvious question....how the fuck did he get a book he wrote out to the public? Don't you think Roslin and Adama would have tighter security on him? Who the hell would allow him to get a book out from his cell and to the public at large???? ITS CALLED BAD WRITING.

firstly, I DONT WANT BULLSHIT SCIENCE in bsg. I hate bullshit science. "captain! klingons uncloaked off starboard! reverse the polarity! temporal flux is tearing the ship apart! tachyon emissions are above acceptable levels! shields at 50 percent!"<p><p>lame. star trek was at its best when it minimised that stuff and worked within the framework it had already established, even if it was built on bullshit. well, heres battlestar galactica. they're basically us, in space. they wear suits, use paper, fire missiles and machine guns, they use telephones. its all designed to seem as realistic as possible. but its gotta have ftl travel and space fighters and a robotic enemy! ok. then we'll do those things in a basic fashion, and that will be all. no technobabbling it up. it exists, and thats all there is. what are you even complaining about anyway? you like starwars? know how hyperdrive works? blasters? lightsabres? no. they're just there to let the story be told. this is why olmos does the show and why it earns accolades, even if its losing viewers. no aliens, no rubber masks, no lasers. if you cant see why thats important, then theres little point continuing.<p><p>second. you cant enlist everyone. they and we covered this ages ago. if you're all dictated to by the military, wheres the human freedom you're fighting to defend and continue? may as well turn around and run to the cylons with open arms. besides which, what if your draftees dont like it. gonna shoot them? throw them in jail? thank gods you people aren't in charge of anybody.<p><p>thirdly, new rule: posters who post consecutive bashings of whatever the topic is, seemingly taking a break only to consider what next to complain about, get ignored. what are you here for? heres a thing; every weekend i have friends over and we watch the tv i downloaded via dvr. we choose what series to watch. HEROES was chosen when it started. i quickly got bored of it after a few weeks but everyone else liked it so i carried on. recently, i've been so bored of it i set it playing for them and leave the room to cook or clean. i find it stultifyingly slow; the characters are hateful; theres not enough action, especially considering youve got folks with superpowers; and characters suffer from what the ones on lost do, to whit, they live in a fucking haze of non-communication, blinding self interest and inability to make connections, hence despite intertwined lives and meeting occasionally, they are unaware of each other or events, and i find it really irritating watching them piss entire episodes away on their lonesome. sometimes i read the talkbacks about it here. and i'll write a big post about what i dont like and what they need to change. then i think "what the fuck?" and delete it all and go away. because i don't want to be one of those guys. now why do i do that, and yet, you trolls dont?

Slop, how do you know it hasn't been a problem integrating the crews? Or maybe it was great, and the somewhat decimated crews from the two ships formed a more or less complete crew for Galactica. It wasn't really addressed by the show, and though it could have been it likely would have been derided as another filler episode. As for the ranks, you are aware that during the US Civil War, for instance, there were a huge number of brevet promotions. And when the war, or the immediate need for an individual to hold the rank they had been given passed, the reverted to a lesser rank. Really pretty common in our militaries here on Earth, so why is it such a problem for you on the show. For instance, Major General Custer stopped being General Custer at the end of the Civil War. When he died at Little Bighorn he was a colonel. So this complaint is just something born of ignorance about military realities. As for Baltar's book, maybe you should watch the episode before you decide about it. Just a thought. Hey, Aestheticity, what's your stance on consecutive defenses?

There's also a good book called something "If there's Intelligent Life in the Universe, Where is Everybody?" which is basically a layman's translation of many of the Rare Earth theories. The best part of the book, though, is the beginning, when he discusses earlier Alien theses (such as "They are already here ... and they are Hungarian").<p>
As for the population breeding, I think they are, as already mentioned, in the red. However, I believe that part of their goal with finding Earth is to integrate with that population ... the "better start having babies" line is more of a "in case we don't find Earth" conditional. Frankly, I think if they lose another 5-10,000 people, they need to outlaw marriage and start creating breeding stocks to ensure the future of the populace.<p>
That could be a fun filler episode.

After what he did on New Caprica? It was established that he was hated by all, and the resistance led by Chief and Tigh wanted him dead. SO now Chief is going to take Baltar's side.....a man who signed the death warrant of his wife????? Ok, ok, I'll watch the episode 1st, but my God people that better be some frakkin' good writing to explain that turn of events. Otherwise it is just one of those contrivances that Ron Moore is pulling out of his ass because like the Lost producers he is just winging it at this point.

<P>Or do they mean it will "have" direction after next week? Man, how I wanted to love this show. How disappointed I've been after the mini-series. Galactica successfully avoided the "Hero Cliche", but became one giant "Emo Cliche"... There is not one likeable character on the show. I would hate to hang out with any of them because they'd want to drag you into their whiney, downer worlds of lost loves, guilty pasts or political debate. I enjoy almost every other aspect of the show (I guess why I still watch), but the general slow moving storylines and the characters (not to mention the horrendous acting…ugh…it’s like a cable show. Oh…wait…) just kill the show for me. And that is 80% of any sci-fi show. Character, story, pacing…anyone of those falter, no matter what your effects budget is, you’re dead in the water. It's nearly better to watch with the sound off.</P><P>Some were bitching about Star Trek, Star Wars and other movies/shows that use 'bullshit science'. Yep, I understand, but those high-fantasy elements may be silly, but those shows and movies actually told stories and had likeable characters planted firmly in coherent and (many) classic stories. FIREFLY is the only other space faring sci-fi series I can think of off hand, I'm sure there are others, that has no aliens, lasers (aside from one laser pistol that was considered a military-class advanced weapon and scared the crap out of anyone facing off against it), and the other usual trappings of sci-fi. Sadly, it didn't last long due to being on network television. In the time it did last, it had great characters in spades! Semi-"Hero Cliche" stories, but was never, EVER a slow, plodding, "Emo Cliche" as Galactica became.</P><P>I know the show has a lot of fans and I think that's terrific and I hope the show continues to bring you the grocery list of goods you enjoy from it. But I can't help but compare Galactica to FARSCAPE in the way that hardcore sci-fi fans watch, support, and defend the show in such a ferverent, nearly hostile way simply because the shows are science fiction and are/were the only space faring sci-fi on television at the time.<P>

Slop, who the hell would support Bush after what he did in Iraq?<br>
<br>
A lot of fraking people! Life and politics is complicated.<br>
<br>
Please notice, I give no indication of what I think of Bush, in the desperate hope of not turning this into a discussion of something else. The point is, "politics makes strange bedfellows."

...well, BSG is sort of a noir, and one could also make a fair argument that it operates as a Greek tragedy, with each major character having a fatal flaw that drives them to their denouement. While this may not be your cup of tea, deriding it as "Emo" rather shortchanges it. Now I'm not saying you should like it, as personal taste is a tricky thing (everyone I know and I'm sure most who have read my posts here would probably find it bizarre that I never liked Carnivale, for instance, but there you go). But by your standards Chinatown, Citizen Kane, pretty much every film directed by Kubrik, and well, the list of classics is pretty endless in film, let alone literature, would be considered "emo-cliche" and could only be defended because it was all that was available. I love high-spirited adventure as much as anyone, but no matter what tack is taken the real question for anything is how well it is done. Independence Day or Miller's Crossing, for any easy example. Not even close to me, for all the high flying "gee, you just have to root for him" nonsense in the first and every single character being compromised in the second. Now try say, Indiana Jones and Eye of the Beholder, in the interest of fair play. Commenting on tone just outlines the extent of your personal taste. Quality is an entirely different matter.

I for one would love to see an Adama centric episode where he goes ape shit on everyone. Throws out orders here and there leaving bodies in the wake. He really needs to polish those brass balls and let anyone who fraks up feel his wrath.

Yeah, I think Bush is a fool, an apparently pleasant and charming one in person. He also is a surprisingly weak leader, who has allowed a lot of very aggressive members of his administration to serve at the whim of special interests and the elite, making dangerous changes to virtually department of the federal government.<br>
<br>
But the point is, most people don't care or don't understand. For example, the crew on Galactica UNDERSTAND that they are being overworked and taken advantage of and Baltar is a sympathetic ear. As Six is wont to say, "This has all happened before, and all will all happen again."<br>
<br>
The mistakes in the Iraq war, the divisive politics of our time, show we have learned very little and make many of the same mistakes every generation. We have a very difficult time learning from history. It's completely believable that Baltar could have the ear of the some of the fleet.

Who are you morons who call the acting on the show "bad"? Is the Royal Shakespeare Company? Hardly...but you're talking about a tight, strong ensemble. Olmos and McDonnell? OSCAR NOMINEES, SPARKY!!
The acting is fine... get over it.
Is the show a bit slow paced? At times...and I really do agree with the "reset button" points many of you have made. But you know what? STILL the best damned hour of TV going...

I love how whiners call something 'bad writing' because the writers don't write what said whiner would have written. Because Baltar didn't follow a similar path as the original series, it's 'bad writing'? Gimme a frakkin break. Having Baltar being like the old series would be totally stupid and you know it. This current show works best when the humans are their own worst enemies. They don't need a godsdamn moustache twirler.

Adama: Baltar, you lead your team to several triumphs and you've also made some big mistakes. I like that you slept with at least three of the Sixes and one of the Threes. But I can't have someone on my ship who doesn't like raman noodles.<br>
<br>
Baltar: Yes, please kill me. I want to die! Wait, I might be a cylon! Can I die? Who am I? Are YOU a cylon -<br>
<br>
Adama: Fire main battery.

Adama: Baltar, you led your team to several triumphs and you've also made some big mistakes. I like that you slept with at least three of the Sixes and one of the Threes. But I can't have someone on my ship who doesn't like raman noodles.<br>
<br>
Baltar: Yes, please kill me. I want to die! Wait, I might be a cylon! Can I die? Who am I? Are YOU a cylon -<br>
<br>
Adama: Fire main battery.

They used a virus in the Sagitaron thing. And it was deadly if untreated.
<p> Here is an idea why did the satellite virus target only Cylons? That would suggest that those of the 13th colny were in fact related closer to Cylons than humans.
<p> The Cylon war happened well after the 13th colony disappeared. Unless they forsaw the future they had no idea there were rogue Cylons to begin with.

The virus that crippled the Cylons infected them with some form of encephalitis. I believe Doc Cottle went into the history of why it was harmless to humans. However, it's very possible we have not yet seen the end of the virus element in the show.

http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?t=1680
<p>The quality of recent DVD releases is seriously being undermined by the promise of HD's higher resolution. A quick examination of recent DVD releases (Bandidas, Crank, The Descent) and more, reveals these movies to be less than 3.5 GBs! The quality is noticeably degraded due to the small file size even though movie transfer methods have improved (HD masters etc.).
Also
<p>http://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=323203

...and even though it was in a very different situation and to a different purpose than the Cylon "unknown encountered in space" virus I heaved a tired sigh when I saw the preview. Mind you, when I saw the episode, which beats out even the boxing episode as my least favorite of the season, I was sighing harder about other stuff (maybe hardest about the forced, stilted domestic conversations between Helo and Sharon). As they played the disease itself, as a consequence of tight quarters, less than ideal ventilation/sanitation and eccentric cultural imperatives, I didn't mind it so much, though I think they played it badly. But if it had been War of the Worlds, the Human Mix, and in the very same season, I would have gone catatonic. Hey, about that last. You are probably right about the 13th Colony being similar to the Cylons, and who knows, the payoff at the end may be finding Earth populated by pseudo-Cylons created in the distant past who departed over the same sort of issues that caused the current conflict, but there is another possibility. "This has all happened before" we are told, and the virus may have been left in the wake of some distant, time lost conflict which we see the echo of here. This has always been one of the most interesting possibilities the show offers, at least as far as I'm concerned, that we are seeing some kind of bipolar evolution, with humanity building to the point where intelligent machines were created, the machines assuming the role of masters/gods over their creators, being overthrown/outgrown by the remade humanity only for humanity to grow to the point of creating them again.

Cylons are highly susceptible to an ancient virus which can be transmitted by rodents, but which humans have developed an immunity to, "lymphocytic encephalitis". This virus disrupts all organic cylon technology including Raiders, Hybrids (which in turn disrupts Centurions), and Humanoid Model Cylons. The Cylons believe that a critical symptom of this virus, a harmful "bioelectric feedback", can be transmitted during a download and have so far prevented any Cylons infected from being downloaded into a resurrection ship. The only Cylon found to be immune is a Number 8 model, Sharon "Athena" Agathon, who had given birth to a half-human child.
Dr. Cottle developed a vaccine to the virus, which had infected a number of humanoid Cylons on a basestar near the Lion's Head Nebula. However, this vaccine's RNA was broken down in the blood stream of a Cylon humanoid model by their own immune response, forcing regular injections to keep an infected Cylon healthy. The Cylons themselves have not managed to develop an antidote or vaccine to the virus at this time.
In addition to this, the nervous system of humanoid Cylons are affected by certain forms of radiation, such as that surrounding Ragnar Anchorage. It is not stated but is assumed that this radiation affects all types of Cylon, as the station was chosen as a refuge by Commander Adama before he learned of the existence of biomechanical models.
<p>
The idea was that these models of Cylon were sort of developed out of their own study of us. The Cylons on some level looked at humanity and said 'You know what? There's really only 12 of you.' If these are the 12, and sort of if you look at them they each represent different archetypes of what humanity is."
<p> So how does that work, the Cylons created life that was not immunized against some human virus?
<p> To me that seems like a reach
<p>
This makes sense
<p>his virus disrupts all organic cylon technology including Raiders, Hybrids (which in turn disrupts Centurions), and Humanoid Model Cylons.

There have been a lot of reports on the net about Roslin's cancer coming back with a vengence. As for the Chief, they started this on New Caprica when he was leading the labor movement before the Cylon invasion. He's a man of the people and a natural leader. I think he's going to be recruited to run for the presidency when Roslin dies.

Could it be that we have been seeing less and less of Caprica and In-Head-Six to make room for the new vixen (or possibly femme fatale) -- Seelix?<P>Over at battlestarwiki.org (the link is http://tinyurl.com/ypegnp)it is reported that Jen Halley has Aaron Douglas' full endorsement.<P>According the report, Douglas thought her character had potential and he worked with her, so it makes sense to see them in an episode like this...This could have been his plan all along. :-)

Maybe Adama and Roslin are hoping that Tom Zarek will take matters into his own hands again. I think these eps are imortant, as they demonstrate the real problems these people would have. As opposed to, say, Voyager, where the crew got along with ex-terrorists just fine and the ship still looked like a luxury liner 7 years later.

this was better than the last two weeks. There's the possibility for some lasting consequences to this story unlike the last two. Of course it looks like next week will be full of lots of plot movement. Should be nice to finally get the talkbackers to shut up about what they think is going to happen to Starbuck!

FINALLY someone gets Adama right. And the Baltar scene with Tyrol was very nice. Also liked the consequences of New Caprica. Only negative was I thought Roslin did a 180 between the beginning and the end of the episode. <p>
BTW, that Seelix info in Herc's post was totally wrong. C'mon, Herc, we expect better!

...and just what the doctor ordered. A plot based around the concerns of the Fleet, character threads stemming back to New Caprica, some great dialog for nearly everyone, and a convincing resolution.<P>After the past couple of weeks, I now find myself stoked again. Great television. And to think..."Maelstrom" is on its way...

...it seemed they rushed the end a bit. Tyrol didn't even call for the strike until, what, 10 or 15 minutes before the episode ended? Also, the President's behavior seemed to fluctuate a lot throughout the episode. One minute, she'll be arresting people and all but putting on the rubber glove for a Baltar cavity search, and the next she's getting drunk with the Chief and talking about working to protect the workers. I was sorta confused.

<P>After huddling beneath a crushing avalanche of snow for the past several days I was pleasantly surprised to find BSG a refreshing coda to an otherwise stultifying weekend. Clearly the writers are hard at work to find ways to keep Baltar the series troublemaker. With his craven sense of wounded superiority and penchant for Cylon threesomes, Baltar's an unlikely hero of the common man, but for a guy locked in a cell with a mattress I suppose it's the best he can do. Anybody shocked that the poster boy of Cylon collaboration could amass any popular support in the fleet is clearly ignoring the present circumstance in US politics in which an otherwise utterly discredited president retains the rock-solid support of 30% of the population. Sorry to dip my toe into politics there -- if I've offended your particular political beliefs, please consider me pre-chastened and move along. One wonders who Baltar's lawyer is, since it doesn't appear to be Adama Jr.</P>
<P>I thought the central conflict of the episode between lower class workers and the bureaucratic elite was unintentionally ironic, since nobody paid any attention to the plight of the Tylium miners until one of "the good ones", Chief Tyrol, became involved. The happy ending came across as very deus ex machina. I possess a blinding white hatred for the president, who 30 minutes into the episode lacks any compassion or accommodation whatsoever, but right at the end turns a dazzling 180 and becomes the picture of sense and reason. If something changed the president's mind it must have been pure sorcery because nothing else seems to explain it. Maybe I'll just put it down to the magic of having a fellow series regular, Chief Tyrol, involved in the labor dispute. (She couldn't relate to the leader of the refinery workers when he was just a guest star.) Overall I thought the central premise was interesting, and if it was a bit filler-y, it was more fun than watching various characters cast longing glances at each other in a bar.</P>
<P>My favorite story thread of all was Seelix's promotion to pilot. That one got me right *there* since I'm a former deckswab (or current-day military equivalent) myself. If filler episodes are necessary, I won't mind as much if they're more like this one. One wonders whether they're showing these filler eps in any particular order, though. Aside from a random line of dialogue here and there, they're pretty much interchangeable.</P>

You didn't have to ram the point home like that though.
<p>
for the record, I'm not a democrat, does that just blow your fucking mind or what?! Morons like you always think you know what everyone else is thinking. Read your previous post, the one I mocked you for, and ask yourself if there's anything in there that a thinking person might find offensive, democrat or otherwise. Jeezuz.

I imagine he probably thinks he's going to get railroaded during the trial. What better way to go out in style than to write universal truths that appeal to the common man? If the most hated man in the fleet can get the people to acknowledge his story, he may have some sort of chance at survival. That's something Baltar has exceeded at - surviving. And of course, all of this appeals to his ego and intellect. :^)

It's obvious what's being shown. Cylons were once underclass workers and they rebelled. Same thing happening with the human workers.<p>
Lesson - no one wants to be treated as a second class citizen. After a while, they get sick of it and rebel/strike/etc.

Well now it's been established that a whole class of people are willing to listen to him. So he has mental traction amongst common people - he's no longer Satan. People will listen to him. So perhaps he's just trying to gain the ear of the people to do something else later.<p>
Good question.

On the one hand, yeah it seems kind of silly that they would strike. But if you're working in crappy conditions for months/years on end, then it's easy to begin to question what are you fighting for; especially if there is a class of people who conveniently never seem to get their hands dirty.

He's one of those long time geek resident bullies. He wants to believe he's the Bill O'Reilly of talkbacks. It makes him feel special and important, when in fact he's a festering postule in this geek forum. Better to just ignore him. The more you respond the more important and powerful he feels. It's sad, really. He deserves our pity.

First off, yes, this was an amazing episode!
<br>
<br>In about two weeks, there's a new NBC Conan O'Brien-written/produced sitcom coming starring Andy Richter and the guy who played Buster on "Arrested Development." It's called "Andy Barker, P.I." Terrible title, I'll stipulate, but fucking brilliant show. The three episodes I saw are incredibly funny; the only network sitcom that appraches its comedy quotient is "The Office." <br>
<br>
So get this. Espenson co-wrote one of the three episodes, the one centering on a golfing mishap, and it's the funniest of the three!
<br>
<br> "Andy Barker, P.I." Remember that title. Only six episodes were ordered and it starts in two weeks.

I see the G.I.N.O. fucktards are out again, but nowhere near as many as before since they were outed. ANYWAY.... I can't believe it hasn't been sussed yet, then again it took months before anyone else noticed the significance of Adama's note at the end of the mini-series. The clues to the whole thing have been written large all over this third season.... AND THE BIGGEST ONE IS ON THE TITLE CARD EVERY WEEK.... "The Cylons were created by Man....." Man = the Creator = God. The hybrid yelping "Genesis returns to source", Xena-bot trapped by a door stating "End of Line" in her little brain-spasm a few episodes back. 12 cylon models, think about 12. Join the dots people, join the dots.

Lee does the same thing as the Chief, he gets a ship a promotion and fat. Chief gets Callie death threats.
<p> If I understand it the twelve colonies are on different planets. Are these planets in the same solar system? Obviously it was a caste society to begin with, with Capricans at the top and everyone else tiered below that.
<p> Nice to see the story address some of the cultural issues of the show. Now if they would clear up some of the other vagaries.

...they used to be chased by Cylons? Sorry, but the first four or five episodes of this season were great and then nothing but lame episodes. Resets, inconsistent characters, and filler. I really, really used to like this show and I'm trying to stick with it, but they're making really difficult. For example, Callie reading and accepting Baltar's manifesto...the same Baltar that signed her execution orders...My eyes literally hurt from rolling so much during that episode.

The Bonus scene should've been a phone call between Roslin and Adama:<p>
Adama: I'm sending Tyrol back over to you.<p>
Roslin: Again?!? <p>
Adama: Yes, well, I feel he has legitimate complaints. In addition, you might want to be nice to him. <p>
Roslin: And why's that?<p>
Adama: Because I threatened to have Cally executed.<p>
Roslin: Oh.

..decides to take up raptor-school in Kara's abscence and takes on the 'starbuck' handle as a homage to his missing/dead wife so we can get back to proper BSG buddy-movie type stuff with him and Apollo. That'd explain the whole 'Starbuck is in it, but not in it' coyness that writers' interview kept knocking around

Really, as much as Adama Sr's character is the most interesting on the show, and Olmos is by far and away the best actor - the only way this show would truly be shaken up and change direction is for Adama to be killed off. We saw how badly it went when Tigh was left in command when Adama was shot, and how when Adama let his guard down at New Caprica they cylons took over, so without Adama who would truly be able to LEAD the fleet onto Earth. Tigh knows he can't do it, Lee might be able to for awhile, but I think a lot of the fleet would resent the old man's son taking over - as hinted at in this week's episode: "You think this fleet will ever be led by someone whose last name isn't Adama?"
Like I said, I dont really want to see it happen, but if they really mean they will "shake up" the show it has to be him. I could care less if Starbuck leaves, she's barely been in the last 3 or 4 episodes.

Suppose in one way or another the fleet (sans Galactica and maybe Colonial One) gets wiped out...imagine the change in mindset that the survivors would have. Remember back in the first season Baltar computed the track that the population of the fleet would need to follow in reproducing to guarantee that humanity survived? Well, if you leave Galactica as the only ship, that option is gone, because one ship would never be able to repopulate their race, even if they found a planet and did nothing but copulate (as fun as that would be). The only option for survival would be to find Earth...nothing else.

<p>I liked this episode, but it's hard to call it good for reasons others have mentioned. Roslin's inconsistencies were more a sign of weak writing than anything else. And the fact that everyone else gets the kid glove treatment, but when Tyrol stands up, Adama threatens to kill his wife??? Although, I suppose that's more an argument against the rest of the series.</p>
<p>I was laughing at Baltar's manifesto. It really does kind of sum up all the other manifestos out there. I was also thinking WTF when Callie quoted from it. Execution orders aside, she was resistance. And she's spiteful. It's almost unbelievable that she would warm to him enough to read it.</p>
<p>Roslin needs to go as president. I love Mary McDonnel but Roslin is not very good. When confronted with a real problem, she doesn't try to fix it. That kind of politics is par for the course in the real world, but given their very survival is on the line, I'm thinking, she's just a school teacher. Zarek wouldn't have let this problem fester.</p>
<p>I'd like to see an episode where someone proposes creating a new cylon labor force to deal with these problems. Given their labor shortages, it's just a matter of time before it threatens their survival. And they do know how to make them. If they scaled back the AI enough, it can be argued the risk is reasonable. Imagine if one of those tillium engineers had created a few to help out and they just found out about it in this ep. Could they really afford to shut them down out of principle, despite the desperate need?</p>

It was a rare treat to seeing Vipers flying in this episode..
but ace, "Callie reading and accepting Baltar's manifesto...the same Baltar that signed her execution orders", true, but surely by now his side of having a gun pointed to his head to do so is out if his book is, and besides, hes also the guy who MURDERED that LT to save her on Kobol.

I understand that some are upset over these "filler" episodes. But if D Moore wants to keep this show going to at least 5 seasons then he cannot show Galactica battling Cylons EVERY episode. This does not excuse some of the shoddier episodes. However, the significance of the Pegasus engaging 4 BayStars in order to save Galactica would be lost if it happened every week! Also storytelling-wise in would be ridiculous for the fleet to be in constant danger every single moment of the show. First, they only have a finite amount of ships. Secondly, they are only 40,000 survivors left. I just think that BSG is all about the journey. This deals with social, personal, and spiritual journeys to go along with the physical journey that they are on.

I dug that episode. I dug the fact it tackled BSG's expanding class discrepencies in such a honest, brutal way. The fact Chief goes back to his role as a proponent of workers' rights and calls a general strike gave me goosebumps.<p>
The episode dealt with an issue most shows never have the balls to address: upper versus lower class lifestyles and the sacrifices, reconciliations, and social patterns associated with each.<p>
Roslin and Adama dealt with the situation in exactly the right way, in my opinion. They couldn't afford a general strike since there was a good chance they'd run out of fuel and be destoyed. Therefore they had to force the issue and be uncompromising. But, to their credit, they actually listened to Chief after he called a strike and decided to vary the workload among classes. A beautiful and hard-fought solution on both sides.<p>
Now we'll see if it works.

<P>Reading these TBs about BSG reminds me of stories that came out of the polar expeditions in the 1800s. You have a small party of people who voyage out to the middle of nowhere carrying their food on their backs in what was at the time the geographic region most actively hostile to human life. Temps at negative 80 degrees and no available fuel, food, or water (you can't survive on ice and snow... it takes too much energy for your stomach to melt it). Something goes wrong and now everyone's trapped, with tempers fraying, zero resources, and no hope of rescue. The only way to get to safety is a forced march through hundreds or thousands of miles of wasteland. People start to drop like flies from exhaustion, dehydration, disease, injury and malnutrition. Infighting saps the will of the survivors. Sounds a bit like Galactica's premise, but Galactica is in worse straits. They're not there by choice, they were driven from their homes. There's no safe place to return to, only the hope of one (Earth). They're pursued by evil robots who want to kill them (most of the time). And they're living in little metal bubbles floating in space, without even oxygen to breathe if something goes wrong.</P>
<P>Galactica's fleet has been extremely lucky to find planets like Kobol, New Caprica and Algae Temple Planet to restore resources, because otherwise it's hard to imagine how they could have survived for so long. So, given the dire situation the fleet is in, it's good to see stories lately that return the focus to survival rather than melodrama and political infighting. The polar explorers had their share of histrionics, but life and death was always the biggest problem they faced. When BSG focuses on the human side, it seems to lose track of these larger issues of survival when the viewing audience, including myself, have not. Tension decreases dramatically if the characters are more worried about political popularity and who's dating whom -- it means, in spite of everything RDM said about the original series setting up a tragic premise and then ignoring it -- that things really aren't that bad. Anyway, I'm glad to see episodes that return the show's focus to the realities of survival in space and the quest for Earth.</P>

RM: “I can tell you this: After ‘Maelstrom,’ if you watch the main titles of ‘Battlestar Galactica,’ a prominent name will suddenly be missing.”
DE: [Cackles conspiratorially] *****************************************
I think it's interesting the way that this gets phrased. I can't help but feel that they're being so careful and specific with their wording that they are tricking us into drawing false conclusions. For all we know, they re-do the intro and no longer show a close-up of Galactica's side. That would be a pretty prominant name missing, wouldn't it? I think it would be awesome if there was all this buildup about people assuming that Katee's character had died or had been elminated from the cast, only to find out they do something crazy like lose Galactica itself. I also like that idea somebody came up with earlier in the talkback about how maybe Katee dies, but there's still a "Starbuck" character - Anders or similar who take over the name in memorium. Looking forward to seeing the big reveal! I really hope that nobody finds out for sure ahead of time - it would be a shame to not be watching it on tv with friends right when all the crazy shit goes down. Woo!

I didn't see Roslin's reversal at the end as "out of nowhere" or unexplainable. The hard line she was giving came down because the workers were fucking with the very survival of the fleet. She told the guy from the refinery ship "We can discuss working conditions once you get the fuel flowing again.", which is exactly what happened after the Chief ended the strike. Note that she was receptive to the Cheif's initial idea of drafting civilians with skill sets relative to the refinery job. All of that was secondary to the problems Baltar was lighting among the fleet's population. "Will anyone without the name Adama ever command this fleet?" A good question, and on its face, it speaks to the larger issues of class, but its infinitely more sinister below the surface. It seems like Baltar is attacking the last traces of human society where it has ultimately been the weakest, and this weakness has only been magnified by the situation the fleet finds itself in.

Doesn't mean a character is going to bite the big one. I hope that all this hype isn't overdoing it. I really hope that this episode really amounts to something for this series. Less than a week left to see if holds up to all the talk.

Logistical arguments aside, you have to assume that the original thechnology used to create the Cylons still exists somewhere in the BSG world, in some limited way. I can understand why after the initial Cylon revolution that humanity would scale back its dependence on AI, the Galactica doesn't have a 'consciousness', for example, but if they are dealing with what Tyrol accurately described as "slave labor", you have to wonder why no one has suggested some form of a limited robotic workforce. In some ways this episode showed the world of BSG to be slightly behind our level of tech, closer to an industrial revolution-era level than the automated one we live in. I'm not complaining that this is a huge inconsistency, but it does leave the door open for a plot point further down the road- humanity repeating its mistakes to stave off desperation. It would be great to see the humans building a new robot army to fight the Cylons even? Baltar could be instrumental, seeing it as a method for further disruption of the status quo as well as an exersise for his vast scientific knowledge. Interesting...

If your interested, the accent Baltar did to show his common roots was Yorkshire. <p> Yorkshire has always had the label of working class, salt of the earth, call a spade a spade, last of the summer wine, James Herriott sort of people. Funny that James should chose that accent to show that side of colonial life. Bit like putting on a Southern white trash accent.

What the fuck am I on about? The Yorkshire accent has a lovely charm and ring to it. I should know. I'm from there. <p> Southern drawl is quite nice, but Southern trailer park os not. <p> I'll shut up now!

Great episode. I think it finally addressed a lot of concerns I had about a decimated society that's on the run and facing extinction. Kudos! I like the idea of Baltar setting himself up as a common man, and a man of the people. And of course, he's absolutely right; as Nancy Pelosi has pointed out, you don't see any rich kids fighting in Iraq, and you know that there aren't any Capricans mining for Tylium...

The premise for the show is so raw I think you could get a lot of mileage from it. They're the last remnants of humanity escaping an enemy (that was) hell bent on destroying them and there are traitors in their midst. There's at least five seasons of quality in that premise alone. Personally, I didn't consider the last episode "filler," it dealt with the logistics of the situation and the focus on the Chief made sense. Filler is when they follow a character through a story unrelated to the situation. I think their biggest mistake was making the humanoid Cylons the decision makers though. The idea that they've been made to look, act and think like humans to infiltrate the colony - perhaps too human in some cases - would have been better served if they'd kept the Cylon command structure mysterious. I also think they've missed out on developing the animal-like qualities of the Cylon Raiders; I thought "Scar" was pointing in that direction but nothing ever came of it. Making the humanoid Cylons the decision makers turned what could have been a very interesting and alien society of different machines built for different purposes into something rather mundane.

...some things were too easily solved, I thought. While I think it was within the framework of Roslin's character to see the arguments from Tyrols point of view, and to see the value of the longer term solution, she did seem to be willing to go there fairly warmly and openly, given the circumstances. I attribute this to the writers needing to set the stage for things to come. <p>We have had the Dire Prediction from Zarek (?) about what will happen if Baltar is given a trial, and this ep seemed largely to be set up for that.<p>I agree with others who note that it is odd for Callie and others to buy-in to Baltar's book. It would seem reasonable for people working 18 hour days for year(s) in the bowels of a refinery ship, but Callie oughta be so biased against Baltar, as should have the Chief, that even if Baltar speaks the truth on a rare occasion, they should automatically dismiss him.<p>seems like a lot of energy SHOULD have been expended finding out WHO was helping Baltar get the pages out of his cell.<p> The Seelix story is an interesting surprise, and looks like it will be fun to see where it goes.<p>Bring On the Maelstrom!!!<p><p>a powerful whirlpool; a large, swirling body of water<p>I am gettin dizzy with anticipation!

Good article.<P>Thanks for the definition of maelstrom, too. BTW another definition is "A violent or turbulent situation" (to be honest, I never would have looked it up if it wasn't for your post). Still, both meanings reveal that bad things are a'comin'!

Skipped it last night because of my silly dedication to the Oscars. But this was a damn fine episode! And yeah I saw the kid being injured a mile away. You were supposed to - it's called building tension. I thought they were going to do that scene with Michael Ironside in The Machinist - I was cringing the whole time. I also love how the show has let trickle out various info on race and class among the colonies without being too heavy handed. If you're interested in this and haven't read the BSG-Zarek comic, you should (has stuff about class differences, slave labor, etc.). In fact, I'm surprised Zarek wasn't part of this, given his past. But the stuff with Seelix was fantastic, everything with Chief - he's gotta be one of my favorite characters and one of the best actors they have. And of course, Baltar and his accent. Wow. Twice now, Jane has come up with some great stuff for Baltar - a real insight into his character (she also originally revealed why he wanted to be a cylon). But yeah, Espenson also dealt with class in Firefly's "Shindig" episode. Guess that Jane Austen worship has paid off.

chromedome- still any merit to th ehybrid theory? lots of story has flown by in the last couple of weeks, and it now seems as though the theory seems a bit tarnished; with the addition of seelix (don't like the name- looks and sounds too much like that crap character from voyager... talk about recycled), and the intseresting ways chief, roslyn, and helo have had their arcs formed, i can't say for certain i can buy the hybrid theory anymore. what say you, o former of the theory? still in, or out now? i'd like to hear your thoughts now that we've got a few episodes under our collective belts, and with maelstrom a week away! :)

Oh, I am still Chromedome, Purveyor of the Hybrid Theory, sir. I think the Hybrid will turn out to be (a) One of the Final Five, and (b) the One That D'Anna apologized to.<p>However, I don't think that the Hybrid is at all the one from the promos who "will discover that they are a cylon". The Hybrid will be one of the Final Five, and we will likely not learn that this season.<p>This season, I am still into the Trinity Theory: The One Who Dies, The One Who Discovers They are A Cylon, and the One Who Finds Earth will all be ONE person. That person will Die, find themselves UPloaded to the Final Five in the real Temple (not the vision temple), and that Temple will be On Earth. (I think the Final Five are ON Earth). <p>
Lots of pointing at Starbuck as that person, probably misdirection, but it would fit well enough.<p>And if ultimately I am proven wrong on the Hybrid Theory (won't know for sure until All Five are known) then I have reserved the handle NoHybrids to use thenceforth.<p>And, NoHubris, you are welcome for the link, and the definition for Maestrom you provided sounds much better suited, sir!<p>Cheers

that the promo has changed recently, and they have dropped "one will discover that they are a cylon" and replaced it with "one will fulfill their destiny"<p>One has to wonder why they changed it. Well "one" doesn't have to, but I do! :-)

while i'm backing off -slightly- fromyour theory (i still think theres too much bullshit redherring-type stuff floating around in the story right now), i still think it has merit. even more interesting is the trinity theory; not only does it make for interesting drama (and lets face it, folks- thats what we're here for), it also could serve to tie in some lingering story nodules that have been floating around for a while. we're led to believe that starbuck is our candidate; most have called 'shenanigans' on that one, but there are still a couple of viable candidates left:
1) baltar. hasn't quite been ruled out, and theres gotta be a reason they haven't started his trial yet (they have had plenty of opportunity to do so, notwithstanding the whole helo, chief/callie and strike independant stories). posturing baltar as champion of the common folk just to take him away as a cylon would be quite an RDM-worthy shockwave. they've been spending some serious airtime re-defining baltar (great arc, btw).possible resolution- baltar stays on galactica a la six as a prisoner, or watched closely as suddenly baltar has value to the fleet again (political?). of all the possible candidates, baltar seems least likely to satisfy the trinity theory- the likelihood that baltar is allowed to find earth just seems too unlikely, given the way these arcs have progressed.
2) chief. dude has been getting some serious facetime not to be a serious contender for final-5 status. granted, this could be some serious red-herringage, but the possibility seriously exsists, especially given chiefs decidedly anti-cylon view. making chief a cylon would also be one hell of a universe-shaker, and would set up some real drama in not tyrols arc, but within the show as well. possible resolution- chief finds the child is not his (even better, the child could be baltars- even jucier!!); jealos rage and a suicide attempt (accidental- chief wouldn't try to really bump himself off) would reveal his destiny (i think this may have been touched on in a previous talkback, but it sounds very plausible)
3) roslyn. the pres would make a great dark-horse cylon; theres gotta be a reason that baltar hasn't been tried yet, and it doesn't necessarily have to do anything with baltar. along with the requisite shock value and far-flung ramifications, it also serves to shine a new light on zarek and baltar. possible resolution- again, this may have been as recent as this talkback, if i remember right, but chief as new president would be an interesting outcome. this would also give zarek an opportunity to become more involved as an adversary again- working from the outside as he did in the first season.
4) zarek. no particular reason, but it seems the whole zarek arc has been played out. he needs some fresh air and a new viewpoint- making him a cylon would be the requisite shake-up quotient, would allow for an entirely new arc, plus CMON!! original apollo as cylon? sweet!!

This episode was excellent, again they had more layers to Baltar's character, the scene with him and Tyrol reminded me of when great scenes used to happen all the time on Galactica. The less Apollo/Starbuck the better at the moment, Baltar and Tyrol are much better characters (Starbuck was a great character but they've lost her this season, she should have been kicking much more ass)

i know i saw the same episode as everyone else but i still dont understand where many of u were coming up with this seelix and tyrol romance thing. if u mean when he put the officers bars on her collar and she thanked him, i dont get it. but then again lots of men think that if a woman smiles at them it means they want them...obviously that includes many of u people..
great episode, cant wait to see what happens with starbuck and the baltar trial

How can you say that Baltar is a sympathetic character? It was Baltar's fault they went to New Caprica, Baltar is the traitor, Baltar only cares about himself. Roslin is a good leader, and seems to be right most of the time. She's a far better character than Baltar will ever be!

SPOILER. <p> After Adama threatened to put Callie against a bulkhead and shoot her :) , the Chief crumbled and ended the strike. Adama then told the Chief he had an appointment with Roslin to discuss worlers rights. There he got drunk.

Yeah the Chief and Baltar was a wicked cool scene, loved the accent change. The final four eps will be good I'm sure of it. Yeah filler eps suck balls but its a necessary evil and end of the day makes BSG the believable series that it is. Love it love it love it.

<p>Frackin' A.</p><p>Good, nay excellent episode. Really struck a chord with this working class lad. TV Sci-Fi doesn't have a good track record with social justice and equality; Babylon 5 tried it a few times ("By Any Means Necessary"), but JMS can't avoid writing his working class grunts as giant fucking cliches.</p><p>I haven't been impressed with Espenson's Galactica writing, but she knocked this one out of the park. And don't forget co-writer Anne Cofell Saunders' contribution; she was responsible for the brilliance of season two's Pegasus.</p>

I need to get this down so if it happens, I will become a legend around here(enter delusions of grandure here). Anyway, here is my prediction on the last few minutes of galactica this Sunday. This happens in the last few minutes of the show. Starbuck is flying in a viper, someone else is in trouble. She goes to the rescue only to face certain demise. Her last words are "Frak me" and her viper explodes. There is about 30-45 seconds of shots of the crew (Adama, Apollo, other viper pilots) in complete shock and disbelief of what just happened. Then the black screen just before the credits are shown. The screen is still black when you hear a loud , agonized inhale. The picture returns and you see Starbuck in a cylon rejuvie tank, sloshing and writhing with Dean Stockwell next to the tank. He says 'Hi there. Welcome home.' and then the screen goes blank and the credits are shown.
Now Starbuck will come back in Season 4, but she is not a cyclon. Remember her surgery on the farm on caprica? It will be explained that they took her DNA and implanted some biological chip that transfers her memories to her new body created from the DNA. And by the way, if Mr. Moore reads this and likes my ideas, get the admin on AICN to give you my email address and contact me! (that was another delusion of grandure moment)
SO SAY WE ALL!!!

Or was Seelix hotter when she had long hair, as she did in earlier seasons?
Also, enough already with the Chief/Callie episodes. One is enough (“A Day in the Life”) but two in a row was excessive (“Dirty Hands”). After all, it’s not like their character threads are as poignant as Baltar’s, or even Helo/Sharon’s. In fact, they should've scrubbed the weaker A Day in the Life altogether, especially in lieu of the fact we were treated to a similar narrative in a previous season in which Apollo and Starbuck get trapped in an on-board shooting gallery.
Finally, to all those calling for an end to the so-called "filler" episode, you might want to consider this: Every show employs them. Only on BSG, they’re much less transparent. It probably has something to do with the fact that the episodes we’ve come to love: “The Hand of God,” “Flight of the Phoenix,” and “Exodus, Pt. 1” (I’m still in awe of those scenes between Apollo & Dualla and Ellen & Saul that commence that episode) are very cast and crew resource-heavy, i.e. expensive. But while filler episodes serve an economic purpose, they also fulfill contractual obligations BSG's producers made to their cast. It was quite inventive of “Lost” to obscure this universal mandate by making character-specific threads, in form of flashbacks, the crux behind each and every episode. Anyway, get used to them, ‘cause they’re here to stay.