jerryroche wrote:If Noel's the pick, what does that do to Andy? Bench? Trade?

Guy regularly only plays 40-60% of the schedule. I'm not passing on a piece because of AV, personally. And he's a trade able guy if you can get him healthy for two weeks somewhere. Although, honestly, Noel needs to gain 30lbs before he's suited to take the punishment himself.

It doesn't seem like NBA trades happen much at the top of the draft. Is that even a possibility?

Lets make history, Call up the worst head of basketball operations in the nba and see if he wants to trade us his #4overall 2013 and his 2014 1st round pick for our #1

"Cocaine is a hell of a drug" - Originated from a famous skit in Dave Chappelle's "Chappelle's Show". The skit would portray Rick James, usually high on cocaine, preforming doing crazy and stupid things, such as smacking Charlie Murphy in the face. Rick James would frequently explain away his actions by saying "Cocaine is a hell of a drug".

Kingpin74 wrote:Will Noel be hurt long enough for us to suck for one final year leading up to a loaded draft? Sign me up, all hands on deck for 2014.

If the Cavs suck sewer water another year, what to think of Chris Grant? Hell, the Cavs will have had pretty much the pick of three straight drafts, and if they don't start to make a move in 2013-14, Gilbert's got to make some wholesale changes, doesn't he?

I've not agreed much with the choices of TT and Waiters, but time has proven that Grant's drafting record is not all that bad. I'm neither fur or agin; I just want to see the Cavs contend, and if they can't very soon -- shit, I just don't know...

pup wrote:So where is the overthink angle? Want to push to make playoffs and too impatient to wait on Noel?

This is my biggest fear: that Grant & TMLP get impatient and screw this up.

Noel, Noel, Noel, Noooo ELLL, born is the king of around the rim defense and rebounding.

While it blows this didn't happen last season for Davis, Noel has the strong potential of solving a bleeding wound and that is around the rim defense and interior dump ff from driving Kyrie and Waiters gimme dunks as soon as he is healthy. Longer term? WTF knows. These guys are sooooo young and take a while to develop. I'm talking 3, 4 seasons.

Now is NOT the time to overthink this one altho this bunch makes me bervous.

Smart money is to take the f'n gift and draft Noel. Take AV and see if you can't get a number one from a bubble or low playoff team that needs his role. Then you parlay that 20 something pick and the 19 and try like hell to move up and take the best perimeter defender who can knock down an outside shot possible.

Then you might have enough juice to attract one or two good vets wven if you have to overpay them to come here so they have some veteran talent and some stability while not capping yourself out just in case Bron ges the warm fuzzies and get delusional enuff to come home. You can't shut the door on that remote possibility unless you knwo for a fact it ain't happenenin' and I doubt anyone except Bron and Windhorst (heh) know for sure.

Whst you do not do is say F it and tarde it for Kung Fu Panda or some other hair brained short cut to get into 7th seed hell.

So someone please tell me that this is a scenario not even Grant can screw up.

Then can we trade our 19th and other assets to move up enough to take Porter? Would this year's 19 and a future lottery protected first do it? If not, what if we also threw in Andy or Zeller? If that's not enough how about we add in Rick Manning and Super Host?

I'm no expert but I like the potential that this starting line-up has:

Then can we trade our 19th and other assets to move up enough to take Porter? Would this year's 19 and a future lottery protected first do it? If not, what if we also threw in Andy or Zeller? If that's not enough how about we add in Rick Manning and Super Host?

I'm no expert but I like the potential that this starting line-up has:

KyrieDionPorterTT/AndyNoel

I'm not an NBA expert by any means, but why would two non-lottery picks (19 this year and a future protected) net us a top-3 overall pick?

I'm just glad we got #1 overall. No way is Aaron Craft making it to #19, so at least now we have a shot at him.

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Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts. -----Lars

Then can we trade our 19th and other assets to move up enough to take Porter? Would this year's 19 and a future lottery protected first do it? If not, what if we also threw in Andy or Zeller? If that's not enough how about we add in Rick Manning and Super Host?

I'm no expert but I like the potential that this starting line-up has:

KyrieDionPorterTT/AndyNoel

I would consider trading some combination of picks and a players/assets to get Porter. Picks #19, our 2-2nd rounders and next year's #1 would be on the table to some degree to consider getting Porter and Noel. I like.

I have really locked in on Porter all through this thread. Maybe too much so. I think we have to take Noel, but I wish I was convinced that Noel was more of a sure thing, more dominant, had a better offensive game. I know there is no MJ or Durant in this draft, but I am haunted by 2 centers being drafted ahead of MJ, and by Oden being drafted ahead of Durant, both because people said they needed dominant posts. I am afraid that Porter might end up being the best player in this draft and that will haunt us later. Didn't Boheim say Porter was the best SF in the history of the Big East? And Boheim has seen most of that history firsthand and also coached an SF by the name of Carmelo Anthony.

These are good problems to have. I hope Grant gets things right!

I was locked in on Porter (SF) with #3 pick and post help at 19, but now that gets flipped around: Noel at #1 and SF help at 19.

"The nose of the bulldog has been slanted backwards so that he can breathe without letting go." -- Winston Churchill

motherscratcher wrote:How does Noel stack up compared to Anthony Davis?

Maybe I'm missing something, but Davis was a hell of a lot better a college offensive player than Noel. Way more game, way more creativity and way more handle for a big guy. Noel is a garbage guy/back end of lobs guy who's a tremendous mistake eraser on defense and who could develop a back to the basket game offensively.

BUT.... probably can't minimize how impactful a defensive presence on this shitty defensive team that's about to get a defensive lesson would be.

I know Davis got lots of comps to Howard. Is Bosh a good upside comp for Noel? Maybe with fewer tears?

peeker643 wrote:I think Kyrie will be fine with just a couple more losing seasons til they can build a dynasty through the draft.

He's different ya know. He's one of us.

You better win and you better win fast. And even then he's leaving when he can.

The thing is though, very few stars leave right after their rookie deals. It comes down to turning down an $80MM+ extension to play a one year contract at $8MM or so to become unrestricted then going where you want. I can't think of a player who's done that recently, let alone one like him who's made out of papier mache. Now his next contract is a different story.

"Well then I guess there's only one thing left to do...win the whole, f***in', thing."- Jake Taylor

motherscratcher wrote:How does Noel stack up compared to Anthony Davis?

Maybe I'm missing something, but Davis was a hell of a lot better a college offensive player than Noel. Way more game, way more creativity and way more handle for a big guy. Noel is a garbage guy/back end of lobs guy who's a tremendous mistake eraser on defense and who could develop a back to the basket game offensively.

BUT.... probably can't minimize how impactful a defensive presence on this shitty defensive team that's about to get a defensive lesson would be.

I know Davis got lots of comps to Howard. Is Bosh a good upside comp for Noel? Maybe with fewer tears?

Not nearly the shooter that Bosh is. Awful free throw shooter too. He's an explosive guy around the rim but doesn't have much touch. He's a project offensively, pure ad simple.

But he has potential there and he's dominant defensively in defending the rim and may be even better when it comes to playing passing lanes. Dude's quick.

Kingpin74 wrote:Also, I'm biased, but if we keep either second round pick, Tim Hardaway Jr. will be a quality rotation player in the NBA.

Yet another intriguing possibility for an alternate basketball league. The My Dad Was Good At This Association.

Marcus Jordan & Hardaway Jr, with Glenn Robinson's son, Stockton's son, Del Curry's other son, and I'm sure many others I'm forgetting and many more to come. Maybe this is where Austin Rivers lands in a few years. Maybe this is where Britney Griner's son lands in a few decades.

Ironically, after the Magic won the No. 2 pick with a 9-2-3-1 combination, the Cavs also won the No. 3 pick with a 9-8-14-2 combination. The rules prohibit a team from winning two spots in the lottery, so the balls went back in the hopper and Washington won the pick with the 9-13-6-12 combination, jumping from No. 8 to No. 3.

Kingpin74 wrote:Also, I'm biased, but if we keep either second round pick, Tim Hardaway Jr. will be a quality rotation player in the NBA.

Yet another intriguing possibility for an alternate basketball league. The My Dad Was Good At This Association.

Marcus Jordan & Hardaway Jr, with Glenn Robinson's son, Stockton's son, Del Curry's other son, and I'm sure many others I'm forgetting and many more to come. Maybe this is where Austin Rivers lands in a few years. Maybe this is where Britney Griner's son lands in a few decades.

Investors?

Randy Lerner seems a natural as an owner in the same vein.

Don't forget Danny Ferry as a FO exec.

BTW - Britney and the future Ms Griner should do in ventro and have like LeBron be their donor. That'd be so epic.

Last edited by jb on Wed May 22, 2013 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

motherscratcher wrote:How does Noel stack up compared to Anthony Davis?

Maybe I'm missing something, but Davis was a hell of a lot better a college offensive player than Noel. Way more game, way more creativity and way more handle for a big guy. Noel is a garbage guy/back end of lobs guy who's a tremendous mistake eraser on defense and who could develop a back to the basket game offensively.

BUT.... probably can't minimize how impactful a defensive presence on this shitty defensive team that's about to get a defensive lesson would be.

I know Davis got lots of comps to Howard. Is Bosh a good upside comp for Noel? Maybe with fewer tears?

Not nearly the shooter that Bosh is. Awful free throw shooter too. He's an explosive guy around the rim but doesn't have much touch. He's a project offensively, pure ad simple.

But he has potential there and he's dominant defensively in defending the rim and may be even better when it comes to playing passing lanes. Dude's quick.

My main concern is that Noel grows into his body frame.

I could be whack and miss big here, but would a Zo Mourning be too retro a projection if kid fills out?

On O, with the way the game is now, and with our back court, kid should be able to put up 16 a night sooner rather than later on dish dunks with very little offensive skills.

motherscratcher wrote:How does Noel stack up compared to Anthony Davis?

Maybe I'm missing something, but Davis was a hell of a lot better a college offensive player than Noel. Way more game, way more creativity and way more handle for a big guy. Noel is a garbage guy/back end of lobs guy who's a tremendous mistake eraser on defense and who could develop a back to the basket game offensively.

BUT.... probably can't minimize how impactful a defensive presence on this shitty defensive team that's about to get a defensive lesson would be.

I know Davis got lots of comps to Howard. Is Bosh a good upside comp for Noel? Maybe with fewer tears?

Not nearly the shooter that Bosh is. Awful free throw shooter too. He's an explosive guy around the rim but doesn't have much touch. He's a project offensively, pure ad simple.

But he has potential there and he's dominant defensively in defending the rim and may be even better when it comes to playing passing lanes. Dude's quick.

My main concern is that Noel grows into his body frame.

Exactly- When Baron Davis outweighs your tarting C both you and Baron's team should be concerned.

I could be whack and miss big here, but would a Zo Mourning be too retro a projection if kid fills out?

Probably the highest side. But if he's Motumbo are you okay with that?

On O, with the way the game is now, and with our back court, kid should be able to put up 16 a night sooner rather than later on dish dunks with very little offensive skills.Yep- For four more years anyway. Then we'll have to see who's at PG when Kyrie is in NYC.

peeker643 wrote:I think Kyrie will be fine with just a couple more losing seasons til they can build a dynasty through the draft.

He's different ya know. He's one of us.

You better win and you better win fast. And even then he's leaving when he can.

The thing is though, very few stars leave right after their rookie deals. It comes down to turning down an $80MM+ extension to play a one year contract at $8MM or so to become unrestricted then going where you want. I can't think of a player who's done that recently, let alone one like him who's made out of papier mache. Now his next contract is a different story.

Eric Gordon is papier mache and tried to do that recently. You don't need to turn down an $80MM extension, you just need to force a S&T or an offer match.

Is Okafor the best comp? Defensive presence. 6'10 255. 2nd overall. But offensive game never translated.

I don't recall him being that good off the ball in college the way that Noel is described but defensively he had the same kind of impact. Of course he was a 3 year guy at UCONN so there was less projection.

I don't recall him being that good off the ball in college the way that Noel is described but defensively he had the same kind of impact. Of course he was a 3 year guy at UCONN so there was less projection.

OldDawg wrote:I am with most of you. This draft is Irving or bust. However, just to think out loud...

If we pick Irving at #1, it sounds like the #4 pick is more of a mystery as far as finding a "sure thing" NBA player. If that is the case, would you ledge if the Cavs picked Williams with the #1 and then picked Brandon Knight at 4? As a tandem, is that pair a more sure of a bet for the league than Irving and whomever you pair him with? Just thinking out loud. Not sure I could turn down Irving, though.

Is there a thread from 2003 with you wondering if Darko + some SF > LBJ + some PF?

OldDawg wrote:I am with most of you. This draft is Irving or bust. However, just to think out loud...

If we pick Irving at #1, it sounds like the #4 pick is more of a mystery as far as finding a "sure thing" NBA player. If that is the case, would you ledge if the Cavs picked Williams with the #1 and then picked Brandon Knight at 4? As a tandem, is that pair a more sure of a bet for the league than Irving and whomever you pair him with? Just thinking out loud. Not sure I could turn down Irving, though.

Is there a thread from 2003 with you wondering if Darko + some SF > LBJ + some PF?

HAHAHA!! Great find, Hoodoo!! Hilarious! You have a freaking great memory, and too much time on your hands!!!I will say, Irving was a clear consensus #1 pick (and I did indicate that in that thread two years ago). I was exploring "options," like I am now.This year, Noel is the consensus #1, but I don't think he is considered as sure a thing as Irving was at the time. I think Noel is our pick, but, as I stated earlier, I am not as sold on him as I was on Kyrie. Heck, according to Windy, the Grant may trade the pick.http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2013/story/ ... -nba-draft

It sure would be great, though, if Kyrie could stay healthy.

"The nose of the bulldog has been slanted backwards so that he can breathe without letting go." -- Winston Churchill

peeker643 wrote:How does a guy 7'0 tall and 207lbs NOT get pushed all over the floor in the NBA? Most 2s, and all 3s and 4s are bigger than he is.

It is somewhat concerning to me. For God's sake, Durant is 240lbs and he's a string that ain't playing 5.

Durant was 6'10 215 out of college. He's put on 25lbs if he's up to 240.

The thought is he'd play mobile rather than with his back to the basket. Per the draft express scouting report he is a finisher and a defender. He's not somebody who's going to be knocking around with other bigs inside.

Basically he is a better defender than Durant but has no outside or inside game other than finishing. Maybe a Darius Miles comparison on the offensive side works? He has tremendous hops, is very quick, and seems to be able to use both hands on the dribble. He just doesn't know how to score inside other than dunking and doesn't have an outside shot at all.

The kid has been injured, which has negatively effected his weight. He player at around 215-220lbs all year. He weighed in at 216lbs at the Nike Hoop Summit just a year ago, and has probably grown some since then. Probably one of the better comps for him right now is a more athletic Marcus Camby.

As far as offensively, I think there is a decent chance that he has an ok shot once he comes back. All he can really do for a lot of his rehab time is work on his shot. I don't think he will be Ryan Anderson, but he should be better than he was.

Also, I don't think that Grant really has to worry about his job at this point in time. He has only had two years worth of picks so far, and if Nerlens is out for most of this year, then he still hasn't had a long stretch. I also think that Gilbert understands that picking Nerlens is a winner in the long term, but it might be a short term loss.

Is this a big step forward in the rebuilding phase?

Dan Gilbert: We were hoping, regardless of what pick we got, that this would be our last lottery. We thought originally after everything had to be reset that it would be a three-year process. You never know. It could be two or it could be four, but we thought three years. With the No. 1 pick this year, and we also have No. 19, we think this will be the last lottery for a while here.