we have a place up in New York
and it is set to a Quality Deer Management because we want more and bigger deer
but this year shotgun season i watched a nice 8 pointer walk right by me he was a nice deer prolly 2 1/2 years old
way to hung to shoot...i saw it walk out of my section of woods and Bang
i guy shot him not 400 yards from my stand
its so frustrating when you try and get somthing done but people just shoot whatever walks by
i had the same thing happen with a yearling 3 pointer
any one else have this problem also

I have experienced the same thing, but I think you may need to look a little closer at QDM.

To begin with, if your goal is "more and bigger deer", you may be working against yourself. Do you want more deer or bigger deer? They are often mutually exclusive.

Secondly, yes the protection of yearling bucks is a common facet of QDM, but the protection of 2.5's is not quite as universal. Many QDMers allow the harvest of 2.5's on their property.

Lastly, the hunter who shot the yearling may have been a child or a first timer. Give them the benifit of the doubt and you may gain a QDM partner.

Bottom line, we as QDMers must do our part on our own hunting land and accept that others may make different choices on thiers. As long as it is within the limits of the law, we have no right to complain. Lead by example and accept that you are doing this because it is the right thing to do, not because you are owed a big buck.

Heres the other side....I hunted rifle first time this year....now mind you I hunted a Month every day until that and every buck I had come in was during the dark hours....So a nice young 6pt came to my calls and I shot him...first deer with rifle ever....I'm proud of the deer...the shot ...and the hunt

I manage my land at home and do most of my hunting here....shotgun only here....I pass younger buck but doe as well...For the DEC gave me 5 doe tags this year and let me tell you the ppl here shot so many doe in this area over the last 4yrs...they CAN'T recover and haven't...those buck and there were a few and nice ones...didn't have to run wild breeding doe during the day...with so few doe they had them at night and they fought for territory at night....the bucks shot here were due to drives...which a certain family shoots/wounds any thing that moves...bucks that guys took..... 3 I know of.......in bow season were well seriously close to if not after legal light....well I don't /won't go that route.........the shoot the does ...shoot the does....in QDM need to be left to ppl with huge tractsof land and a heck of alot fewer hunters in some areas......I don't hunt and choose what I hunt based on what others THINK....but what I see fits my own personal hunting area...that I own.....camp can handle the harvest of a couple of younger bucks and doe...no farm land...steep hill terain ...deep snows...huge yote population .....thick thick cover and an unusual amount of buck fawns born....then again unlike many.... our group hunt just our own buck tags....No the misses shot a nice buck...wink wink crap.... and rarly do we hunt during the bow season there....recovery would be just too difficult

1) I do not agree that a low doe poulation leads to nocturnal buck movement. My reading and experience have lead me to believe the exact opposite. When bucks have a hard time finding does, they travel more ofetn b/c they are looking for action. I would guess that the hunting pressure is the reason for your lack of daylight buck sightings.

2) I do not agree that QDM is only for people with huge acerage. Will the results be more dramatic on large tracts? Yes. But if a person is realistic, they can apply QDM principals anywhere.

The only hunter who is going to let a nice 8 pointer walk is someone who is trophy hunting or just has so many deer it's not a challenge to fill the freezer every year. I've been hunting in Alabama for 5 years and the nicest deer I've seen and shot was a real thick 6 pointer. My goal is to fill the freezer and I know that on 110 acres a nice buck I let walk could be shot the moment he steps off the property.

If I'm lucky I see on average 6-8 deer during a season and when you are trying to fill the freezer that means two of those deer need to be shot to fill the freezer. That is the most deer I'll take in a season unless a true trophy walks out after I've filled the freezer. I hear of others who take 6 or 8 deer in a season or more. I guess they live in areas where more deer are seen but not too many famlies that I know can eat that much deer meat in a year. I was glad to see Alabama put a quota on bucks last year, maybe now I'll have a shot at that nice 8 pointer!

As far as my son goes I'll let him shoot anything that is of decent size that doesn't have spots and that could be your yearling 3 pointer!

I guess it really depends on where you hunt. Up north I know things are different so my standards would probably change some but it would still always be about filling the freezer before trophy hunting.

The only hunter who is going to let a nice 8 pointer walk is someone who is trophy hunting or just has so many deer it's not a challenge to fill the freezer every year.

Wrong! Sorry but that is just unfair of you to say.

There are a lot of hunters who put conservation ahead of their ego or their freezer space. Not to pat myself on the back too hard, but I consider myself to be one of those hunters. Every deer I kill is a trophy and I work my ass off to fill the freezer. I think many QDMers are the same.

I have been hunting and managing 110 acres for the last 4 yrs, I bow hunt it all to myself, but then I am joined by my two brothers for gun season. In the last 2yrs we have harvested 2 eight point bucks that were 3.5yrs old. I have had local farmers come in and plant overgrown fields to increase the food in the area, and this year I began implementing a protein mineral site for the deer to use. The most important thing I did was get out and talk with my neighbors about deer management. After 3yrs of talking with other landowners around where I hunt I have about 1,400 acres that are now deer management properties. I was surprised by the overall acceptance of the concept.

Last year my neighbor who has a boy that started hunting got lucky and shot 2 1.5yr old bucks right behind his house on thanksgiving day. I had seen both bucks on different occasions through out the bow season. After gun season I stopped in to talk with then for awhile and congratulated the kid on his tremendous success and shooting skills. After talking with them for a little while I mentioned the concept of deer management and what a lot of other hunters are doing in the area, the dad and son got really excited about the idea and both agreed to try and take mature deer.

I guess what I am saying is property size isn't a huge issue, just get out there and pound the pavement a little bit and start talking to your neighbors, you may be surprised to find out how many are willing to try deer management.

I consider myself a QDM participator, but to me you have to start out small and work your way up. You hear hunters tell young hunters to shoot any buck and work there way up, and build up there confidence. I figured I didn't need to do that because I thought I was a good shot. Well last year I had a good 2.5 year old buck come out and I missed him. Buck fever big time and so this year I said I would shoot the first buck that gave me a good shot and on opening day of the gun season I shot a 4 point buck. Everyone was happy for me in camp and even though we practice QDM noone gave me the lecture about how big he would have been in 2 years. QDM isn't about how big the rack will be when he is a 3.5 year old buck or bigger its about the health of the deer herd. A trophy buck is different for every person. I consider every deer a trophy and thank God everytime I get a deer.

I consider myself a QDM participator, but to me you have to start out small and work your way up. You hear hunters tell young hunters to shoot any buck and work there way up, and build up there confidence. I figured I didn't need to do that because I thought I was a good shot. Well last year I had a good 2.5 year old buck come out and I missed him. Buck fever big time and so this year I said I would shoot the first buck that gave me a good shot and on opening day of the gun season I shot a 4 point buck. Everyone was happy for me in camp and even though we practice QDM noone gave me the lecture about how big he would have been in 2 years. QDM isn't about how big the rack will be when he is a 3.5 year old buck or bigger its about the health of the deer herd. A trophy buck is different for every person. I consider every deer a trophy and thank God everytime I get a deer.

The only hunter who is going to let a nice 8 pointer walk is someone who is trophy hunting or just has so many deer it's not a challenge to fill the freezer every year.

Wrong! Sorry but that is just unfair of you to say.

There are a lot of hunters who put conservation ahead of their ego or their freezer space. Not to pat myself on the back too hard, but I consider myself to be one of those hunters. Every deer I kill is a trophy and I work my ass off to fill the freezer. I think many QDMers are the same.

I'm not mad, I just strongly disagree with your opening statement.

JPH that is why I made it clear I hunt in Alabama and not up north where 8 pointers can be considered small to average bucks. In Alabama where I hunt a NICE 8 point is generally a mature above average buck.

I don't have an ego when it comes to deer hunting. As far as freezer space is concerned I spend enough money each year on hunting so that I can try to feed my family with a healthier meat. I'm going to try and fill it with two MATURE deer IF I CAN but that's a challenge in itself. So far in the 5 years of hunting I've only been able to take two deer once. That shows I think of conservation. I've let far more deer walk than I've shot in my 5 years of hunting. I'm sorry if my comment came across wrong but I read a lot about guys who just care about trophy hunting where it's more about the antlers on the wall than the food in the freezer and that aggravates me.

Honesty I wish D&DH would write more about the differences of deer hunting in the south. Too many of their articles focus on the northern hunting and there is definitely a difference when it comes to size of the deer and a buck's antlers. I'll make sure I keep the differences in north and south in mind when writing future responses.