Payne Responds to Sounders

It is on. It is so on. Usually an afterthought on the American soccer landscape, the mom-and-pop U.S. Open Cup has taken a spicy turn this week, thanks to the executives for the two finalists.

It began when Seattle's Adrian Hanauer expressed disappointment that the U.S. Soccer Federation chose RFK Stadium as the site for the Sept. 2 championship game between the Sounders and D.C. United. He also questioned the bid process and whether United would draw 10,000 fans while suggesting D.C. would lose money on the game. Seattle made a lucrative financial bid to stage the match at Qwest Field, he said, but because of logistical stadium issues, the only realistic time slot for the soccer game was 1 p.m. (local) on Sept. 1 (Tuesday).

In comments to the Insider Thursday afternoon, DCU President Kevin Payne lashed out at Hanauer.....

What did you think of Adrian's comments?

"I was surprised and disappointed and offended. Adrian uses the word 'skepticism' to describe the process, which seems to be implying that it wasn't on the up-and-up. Which is really an outrageous implication. He is implying that we somehow are receiving favorable treatment. We bid aggressively at every level this year and last year. We did so because we didn't want to travel if we could possibly avoid it, given the demands of our schedule [Champions League]. Seattle doesn't have those same demands because this is their first year. Adrian has no knowledge of what we bid or didn't bid; my guess is that we bid more aggressively than they did."

"I appreciate that Seattle's fans are great. Our fans have been great for 14 seasons. It's really unseemly for Seattle to suddenly show up in MLS and everything should be handed to them. Their crowds are wonderful, we had a great time out there in Seattle [last month], but our crowds are pretty good too and we expect this year we will get far more people in the building than we did last year [8,200]. Last year we played a USL team in the final and, the way our team was going in general at that point, our fans were disappointed and disillusioned. That's not the case this year. We are going to promote the game very aggressively."

Based on the Sounders' outstanding attendance this year, do you think they would've won the hosting rights if they had offered a night-time kickoff?

"They might have. But there is something to be said for not playing on an artificial surface and not playing on football lines. We are able to deliver a surface that is arguably the best grass field in the league. We don't have football lines, and I can understand why the USSF would prefer that it's national championship not be played in those kinds of circumstances. Obviously the game-time was an issue, but that's not D.C. United's fault. Seattle wasn't able to comply with the time of the match. We did what the USSF asked us to do: We proposed financial terms, we met their requirement for day and time, and we provide them with the kind of surface soccer is supposed to be played on."

[Asked about the football lines, a Seattle spokesman told the Insider that they will be removed before all Sounders games this fall. UPDATE: On a side note, if you look closely at RFK's field, you will notice some very faint football lines left over from last winter's college bowl game.]

Should the bidding process have more transparency?

"Not if the critieria is going to be financial. If the USSF wants to come up with a new criteria, then it could be more transparent."

Final thoughts?

"We expect to make money on the game; Adrian doesn't know what he is talking about there. ... I just think it is a little out of bounds in your first year to throw stones the way they have."

Goff- As somebody who's spoken on journalistic ethics issues in this space, you did well to note that KP's implication about the gridiron on the field wasn't wholly in line with facts. Nice bit of follow-up.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Barras and Eagles *really* bring it on 9/2. In fact, I'll be surprised if they don't.

SUre, it's juvenile, but I like the fire here, especially if it gets picked up by the fans. This could be like the heavyweight fights of old, with the trash-talking building fans' anticipation. Here's hoping it works that way. It's a Tuesday night, but I'd like to see every United fan there.

However, Kevin Payne has apparently not watched a United game on TV this year, as you can clearly see football lines on the field - which is freaking bizarre since no football has been played at RFK since December of 2008.

this is great, but it misses the real story: DadRyan's ongoing investigation into the bottle thrown at Josh Wicks in Seattle. he needs closure!

that said, i love the smack talk about the turf field. and i might be in DC the weekend before the Open Cup final and if i am i will have to see if i can extend my stay by a day or two to catch this game. should be fun to watch.

Spikeman: Yeah, I mean, I'm not some soccer historian, having just jumped in two years ago, but I can tell you about MLS's young history, and that they ain't got nothing DC, and that they need to do a quick google search.

You must have to look pretty close at the RFK field to see faint lines. At the St. Louis/Colorado matches I didn't notice them

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People actually at the game can't see them but on television there is a faint outline -- or if you are sitting way up in the press box. If you are standing and singing in the bouncy side you DEFINITELY can't see them

Seattle may be good for the MLS' profile, but I have always been annoyed by their cheery, yuppie, smug-looking newbie fans who dress alike with their stupid overpriced scarfs! wankers all!
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I agree with the sentiment here, but the reason they all have the same scarves is cuz it was a free handout at their opening game, which is even lamer than what you described.

People actually at the game can't see them but on television there is a faint outline -- or if you are sitting way up in the press box. If you are standing and singing in the bouncy side you DEFINITELY can't see them

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I sit on the bouncy side and I can see the lines and the 40 and 30 albeit very faintly. They must have put some bleach in the paint for last year's bowl game. I'm in section 231 so I'm not that high up.

and yes, I sure hope Kasey Keller brings some headgear and a rain slicker in case he feels like "wasting time". I also wonder if the Swede is actually going to play in the final. Seems awfully
El-Muneco-ish.

It's nice that someone from the front office could be distracted from the Real Madrid love fest long enough to be outraged. How much promotion can they realistically expect their staff to do in the short amount of time between the Dog & Pony show at FedEx and the Open Cup Final?

@spikeman: for the record the piss and batteries is a joke. I've just been pissed off because the bottle throwing incident in Seattle was swept under the rug like it didn't even happen. Throwing stuff at people with their back turned is straight up cowardly, and doing it at a sporting event because you don't understand gamesmanship is bush league. Even more so, their organization looking the other way instead of doing the responsible thing and punishing the moron.

all that equals up to an american soccer dynasty however you look at it.

all that being said, i love hanauer and all, he's super passionate and truly loves this team and this game, but he should have kept those comments on the dl. if he's got a problem with the selection process, take it up with us soccer. although, i wonder if both AH and Payne are in on this to try and elevate this tournament and help create a rivalry between to teams that will probably meet in the postseason very often in the coming years?? hmmmm???

you guys better sell more than you did last year. last year was an embarassment to american soccer. we would have sold out qwest field no problem, so make you winning this bid be in vain. bring it!!!

regardless of what league your in, or what city, or country, the game of soccer is still the same. it's the same round ball, the same rules, the same pitch, the same competitive fire inside the players. losing still hurts just as much and winning still elates just as much. and yes, we're just as proud of our tradition and history as we will be of our MANY mls trophies we're going to win.

but let's be honest. if you truly want to hate on the usl and nasl, you better not be saying your mls accomplishments are any better, as the mls is seen by the rest of the world as a gargbage league for hacks and over-the-hillers. does that make you less proud of any of united's accomplishments? didn't think so.

1) If you're going to invoke history, learn it first. NASL wasn't the same rules, and that team folded with NASL. We could invoke whatever the DC team was in NASL, but we're not bunch of unoriginal backwards-looking poseurs. The revived A-League/USL team came to be in 1994. That's 26 years in competition, and really, 14 years of continuous play.
2) Your trophies in USL are inferior because they come from an inferior league. Cascadia Cup? OOh... We beat Portland and Vancouver!! BFD. A USL team has won one USOC in the MLS era, thus proving the league's the lower leagues inferiority.
3) Why are you dissing MLS relative to foreign leagues? You're a part of it now, and you're happy to be here, and you're not going anywhere. Even if you win MLS cup, you can't be promoted to the Coca-Cola Chapionship. This is the pinnacle in this country.
4) Your uniforms suck.

I like Kevin Payne's comments. And the bit about Seatle being a johny-come-lately is so spot on. So they have huge numbers for 1 freaking year, so what? Even LA had numbers for the first few Beckham matches. We all know where their numbers are going now. Talk to me, Seattle, after you've been in the league for 5 years. After you've won a bunch of trophies. As it is, all you have is overpriced coffee that nobody wants to buy.

and second, i'm not dissing the mls, the rest of the world is. and to an extent, they're right. the mls is faaaar inferior to european soccer leagues. you can't deny that. but that doesn't mean we here in seattle aren't glad to be here and happy to be leading the way in improving the league.

Nattyboy1985-

they were there to see real madrid. not united. sorry to dissapoint you. :)

mmsq- yep, we will get to beat twice in a span of 10 days. should be fun teaching you lot what the Beautiful Game really looks like.

kev29-

if you can get 15k into see the match (which i highly doubt), you better send hanauer a big thank you card.

> I didn't miss your point. I hit it and shot it down. You were wrong, and I called your lime green keister on it. You don't get to absorb the history of the NASL side just by naming your team the same thing. Different time. Different League. Differnt ownership. Different rules. God's sake, some of it was INDOOR!

You can have the USL/A-league team, if you like, because of the continuity, but NASL? It was like twelve years between the fold and the revival.

and second, i'm not dissing the mls, the rest of the world is. and to an extent, they're right. the mls is faaaar inferior to european soccer leagues. you can't deny that. but that doesn't mean we here in seattle aren't glad to be here and happy to be leading the way in improving the league.

> Using MLS's relative strength vis-a-vis European leagues as a defense from the charge that USL is a weaker league than MLS when USL and MLS play in regular direct competition is just a weird red herring.

we can and we do recongize our past. deal with it. the championship banners still hang over our pitch. always will. it may not be officially recognized by mls, but who cares.

and who said the usl wasn't a weaker league? not me. i think something got lost in translation there. but i reiterate, that doesn't mean we aren't proud of what we accomplished there, and it doesn't mean the mls is a top-notch league.

Patrick Danner is hilarious, from Bellywash Son and trying to floss in front of the freaking PI Globe? Now that's gangster P... Rich kids from the east side are such chumps. Kinda like "gangster" kids from great falls...

we can and we do recongize our past. deal with it. the championship banners still hang over our pitch. always will. it may not be officially recognized by mls, but who cares.
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Everyone else. You're new to the league. You have no history. Stop being poseurs by pretending you're a 35 year old club. A club has competed under the name "Sounders" for 26 seasons:
9 in NASL, which died and took the team with it,
14 in A-League/USL
1 in MLS.

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and who said the usl wasn't a weaker league? not me. i think something got lost in translation there. but i reiterate, that doesn't mean we aren't proud of what we accomplished there, and it doesn't mean the mls is a top-notch league.

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I think your geography is confused. For some reason you brought up European leagues. We're discussing MLS and USL, and you seem to believe that winning silver in USL is, in some way comparable to winning silver in MLS or CONCACAF. It's not, in the same way that winning silver in MLS or CONCACAF isn't the same as doing it in Europe. If EPL is a salmon, and MLS is a minnow, USL is an insect or possibly plankton. You've now made it to minnow status, but don't pretend anyone gives a crap what you did as plankton.

Hell... Even in Europe, no one cares about who wins the lower divisions other than for the purposes of promotion. Quick... Who won Coca Cola League 1 last year?

Wow! Do I sense a little bit of hostility? Don't want the new kids comming in, thinking they can muscle their way around. I love the nasty comments about Seattle fans and the team in general. Life has changed. Suddenly, there is an organization and a fan base that are lighting a fire in the pants of all the rest of the league. I personally think that DC has one of the best fan bases in the MLS and would be better if there was a new stadium. However, you all know deep down in your hearts that Seattle has something that you wish you had. Why why why can they come into the league in their first year and turn the attendance figures upside down. (On an artificial surface. You all might want to read up on the type of surface they really have.) Also, making the USOC final and having one of the best records in the league through the first half. Especially, since the team didn't even know each other to start the season. What is going to happen now that they know each other? Scary! Maybe other fans should start supporting their teams like us latte drinking yuppies do. Keep the Seattle hating coming. We love it!

Is this Marty McFly or what? Listen to him let the camera guy put words in his mouth...Last big event of the summer in Seattle? Yeah guys, a mid week soccer game will probably blow Bumbershoot out of the water...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpjpMAUF0r4

I don't care who you think you use to be, it's over. Your team plays great ball, but it won't be enough. You should have showed up and watched, you don't deserve what you had. Now it's ours.

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Silly Sounder... Perhaps you didn't hear, but DCU won the bid? That would make it "ours". You have nothing. Perhaps if you didn't want to play the match during the day on a weekday someone would have taken your bid seriously...

Enjoy the wave of a good team and the novelty. It's a hard league to stay near the top in. The salary cap sees to that. After a hard season or two, the interest will fall, and attendance will suffer. If I had money to put on it, you side will be begging for a SSS within five years because of the holes appearing in your terraces at Qwest.

Fourteen Seasons? Really? FOURTEEN SEASONS? After having 14 long years to build up such a massive fan base, you managed a truly pathetic 8,200 last year? I wouldn't be talking this up, I'd be running and hiding somewhere like a beat dog. The Sounders could bring in 8,200 on Christmas Eve during a thermonuclear blast. Give away a few cars, and maybe you can crack 9,000. Would that be a new attendance record back there? 14 long seasons to bring in 8,200 fans. Laughable.

It was below average last year? What was the previous average 8,500? Maybe if you bring pets, they will add them to the attendance total. The 12 people in the fanclub can snowball that idea. Do rats count as pets?

You're comparing USL attendance vs. MLS attendance at a championship game? Wow the Obama administration is doing wonders there in D.C. Let's do a reality check now. Attendance 2009, Sounders FC average 29,983. D.C. United 14,003 (total includes pets). Are you now going to compare your childrens t-ball games against the Nationals? Oh wait, the Nationals would lose that one too.

Albino, if we were a brand spanking new team, who was marketed like a Disney movie, had a fresh new stadium instead of one many are either sick of, or more comfortable at home watching on tv, and we had an entire year to sell season tickets to dejected basketball fans with a fancy little website that let you create a profile and feel important for a measley $300, we'd have started the season with more than you did this year. If our stadium gets built ever, I'd almost guarantee we'd completely sell it out for the inaugural season before it started.

Your "fanbase" is composed of rich kids from the eastside who's parents bought them the ticket for Christmas. Travel to DC and see how lame our support is. Come out to Lot 8 and see what atmosphere is. You guys are so concerned about it and you can't even tailgate at your stadium? WTF? It really is Disneyland isn't it? Our pet rats will eat you chumps alive.

It's funny how were told that were hooligans with the beer bottle incident, and then in the next sentence we're suddenly Walt Disney. Doesn't matter, we'll still shine in the house that rats built. With all of the 8,200 or 8,500 or even a massive 10,000 showing up with their pets.

Didn't call anyone hooligans because of the bottle. I called you bush league for not recognizing gamesmanship when you see it, and irresponsible for not policing the idiot who threw it.
Sounds like you've got some weird rats and pets fetish ey?
Gotta hit the sack, this is going to be one fun month...

Uh.... Maybe you're new to this MLS thing, but the MLS championship trophy is MLS Cup. We've won five.

Regarding attendance at last year's open cup, it was below the season average, because it was against a USL team and frankly, DCU was pretty bad last year (BUT STILL WON USOC!).

Seattle's attendance, however, sucked all year even for USL. You're doing well this year, but like DR said, you're brand new, heavily marketed, and you're good. Lets see how you do when the shine is off the rose and the team can't play for beans.

Be sure to thank Adrian Hanauer for helping sell more tickets, maybe you'll crack 5 digits as a result. I'm a Sounders fan but I don't think he should've said what he was quoted as saying, what was he thinking? Stirring the pot doesn't hurt the cause in my book, if it creates interest it's all good. Should make for a more interesting Cup Final at least. If the Sounders proposed a decent day and time slot we would've had 67,000 there no problem. 1pm on a Tuesday is tough
-mikes

DadRyan,
Your stadium might get built sooner if wasn't so difficult design one small enough to hold the fans, and still hold two teams. I imagine everything has to be bulletproof down there too, huh.
By the way, eating a TV dinner by yourself in an empty parking lot isn't tailgating.

14 YEARS, 14 YEARS, 14 YEARS, the drumbeat rolls on. 14 years to go backwards in supporters. Keep beating that drum. You will never, never, outdraw Seattle. Even 14 YEARS from now you will not outdraw them for even a single match during that time. It's time to face the facts that D.C.'s time is way expired, just like bad milk. You don't even average half of what Seattle averages, and they could sell more tickets if they weren't sold out every match. Being in D.C., you've learned to spin the issues pretty well, but the facts are still the facts.

Even 14 YEARS from now you will not outdraw them for even a single match during that time.

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I love it when people make absolute statements, especially forward looking ones. The folly of this particular one is compounded both by ignorance of past attendance patterns, and the possibility of future stadium developments.

You won't be filling your stadium for this one, because you lowballed and lost. You'd think with that massive gate you could have submitted a better bid.

Rookie mistake.
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Way to make stuff up. We lowballed? What happened to the whole timeslot argument? You're an idiot.

And what does the "gate" have to do with the Sounders? Are you another superficial idiot who somehow thinks the Sounders are owned by Microsoft? LMAO yes and Obama owns D.C. United. *Sigh* and then you wonder why American soccer "fans" aren't taken seriously. Pathetic.

Past attendance patterns? You mean in the past when people cared about D.C. United? Or the present, when the don't? You could probably get your new stadium quicker if the total capacity was 9,000. But then that would be too many. How many years until you get a new stadium? Here's the answer.......NEVER. Here's a recent quote that basically says "NOBODY CARES"....

"MLS DC United last week sent an e-mail survey to fans looking for input in its "years-long search for a new stadium,"

Nobody cares, or wants to build a new stadium for a team that nobody shows up to watch. Face the facts.

I get it. You're drunk. That's why you're not making any sense. It's understandable, as you've got great breweries up there.

I'll "speak" slowly so that even a drunk can get it.

The email survey in question was trying to figure out where the fans are, where they'd be willing to go, and what they want in a stadium. It is hardly an indicator of lack of interest. Perhaps you didn't know but there's a lot of different governments to deal with in this area, and they don't have time for a lot of silly questions. DCU wants it's ducks in a row when it gets its time, and I applaud them for it. Now that the real estate development clown is gone, they're concentrating on the team as a team, not the team as the centerpiece of a mixed-used development. This is a sentiment that many in the stands and watching from home share.

9,000? That would leave 5,000 out from the average and 10,000 out from last years average. Any stadium built around here is going to be a 22-25k stadium. There's smack talk and there's stupid. That's just stupid. Don't be stupid.

"Nobody cares, or wants to build a new stadium for a team that nobody shows up to watch." Two words: Washington Nationals. They got a stadium and DCU will often outsell them or outseat them when they're head to head. Ironically, they've also been the biggest burden. Nevertheless, something will be figured out in the next 14 years, and even if it doesn't, attendance will chug along between 14,000 and 22,000, Barra will keep the loud side bouncing, and the team will be good so long as it's healthy, skilled, and well managed. That's the fun thing about this league: the cap keeps things tight, so you can't blow your opponents away from the seats. You have to do it between the lines. You'll figure it out.

I hope more Sounders fans come to this game then DC United fans, that would be so funny. Obviously Qwest Field would have filled more, and obviously DC hasnt played an away game in the US Open Cup since the dawn of time. But thats just how it is, the only thing that I really think might be unfair is that they got to hold the final twice in a row.

What does that have to do with anything? Another attempted "spin" from a franchise with a dying fan base.

Posted by: AlbinoSounder | July 24, 2009 2:22 AM | Report abuse

I'll type slowly so you can follow.....one person said.... "On an artificial surface. You all might want to read up on the type of surface they really have." (which is why I quoted them).... I just pointed out the obvious with the defintion. Please try and stay focused and keep up...you're slowing the whole class down.

Way to make stuff up. We lowballed? What happened to the whole timeslot argument? You're an idiot.
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>Take your pick. You either lowballed, and thought they would ignore your timeslot issue because of attendance, or you didn't and it was just never to be because of the same - which should tell you something about the meaning of gross gate.
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And what does the "gate" have to do with the Sounders? Are you another superficial idiot who somehow thinks the Sounders are owned by Microsoft? LMAO yes and Obama owns D.C. United. *Sigh* and then you wonder why American soccer "fans" aren't taken seriously. Pathetic.
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Gate = The total admission receipts to a sporting event. Often a major component in revenues. I'm sorry... who were you mocking now?

Well even if I were drunk your arguments are still laughable. First the search has been going on for years with still no results. Apparently it's not all that important around there. Secondly, if you're going to build a stadium that only seats 22-25k, then you truly have a really bad fan base if that's all you the supporters you can find. 22-25K? That's it? After 14 years, you max out at 25K? Once again, LAUGHABLE, and minor league!

Well even if I were drunk your arguments are still laughable. First the search has been going on for years with still no results.
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>It really hasn't. We got a baseball team a few yeas back, and they were first in line for a stadium. Despite sucking, they got their wish.
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Apparently it's not all that important around there.
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>People are annoyed that the Nationals suck, and didn't feel like building two stadia at once.
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Secondly, if you're going to build a stadium that only seats 22-25k, then you truly have a really bad fan base if that's all you the supporters you can find. 22-25K? That's it? After 14 years, you max out at 25K? Once again, LAUGHABLE, and minor league!
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Minor league? You do realize that average match attendance for the entire league is 15,528. There are exactly two teams over 20k, and they're both new. Not even the revitalized Galaxy are over 20, but they're close. Again - there's smack and there's stupid and you're spitting the latter.

We won't be filling our stadium because we somehow lost the bid. You won't be filling your stadium because you... just... can't. Sucks to be you.

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Look - Neither of us knows what the bids were. DCU bids high because they hate to travel unnecessarily, so your really, really good bid might not have been good enough, especially considering you time constraints. We just don't know. You either lowballed, or you didn't and you were never going to get it.

And no, it doesn't suck to be us. We have the game and you don't. You're complaining and we're not.

Mason.......Your spelling is getting bad....who's really the drunk one? The entire league average of 15,528 sucks. And I would suggest that only the 2 teams with averages above 20,000, are the only truly real major league teams. Any team that can't get at least 20,000 fans should be regulated to the USL regardless of their record. What's the point of playing in front of nobody?

The entire league average of 15,528 sucks. And I would suggest that only the 2 teams with averages above 20,000, are the only truly real major league teams. Any team that can't get at least 20,000 fans should be regulated [sic] to the USL regardless of their record. What's the point of playing in front of nobody?

Complaining? I'm not complaining. I'm making fun of your pithy attendance! Of course, you'd think it's a complaint, since you're used to complaining about your own crowd's lack of support.

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Oh? I must have misunderstood your GM's comments. It sure sounded like he was complaining. It sure sounds like you all are saying, "But, But, But, But, But, But, We can get more people!!" Tough. No one cares. Your bid wasn't strong enough given the constraints under which you were operating.

No one here complains about lack of crowd support for DCU - only lack of current political will to build a stadium. There is a vast gulf between the two, and while we view the latter as temporary, the former has been enduring thus far. This isn't Houston.

OK......So you're drunk at 02:59 AM Eastern Time. Or is that superfluous?
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>Were I, it would be, actually. At this hour, the tiredness alone is enough to lead to some typos.
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8,200 for a cup, and you call yourselves and MLS team. Pathetic!
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>Win something that matters. Anything. Then you can chatter. They don't give out awards for selling the most tickets, and you can't spend it on your team. Your support is admirable, but has no effect on what happens on the (artificial) pitch.

Why not? The two teams could play friendlies against European teams that have real fans too. Then at the end of the year, they could play each other for the championship. I'd rather watch that, then empty stands against organizations that have no fan base.

Thanks for the amusement and challenge, but we're through. There's just no bantering reasonably with someone like you. It took a while, but it's now painfully obvious to me, and hopefully all who read this, that you are loopier than Toucan Sam.

Oh puh-lease. We've won plenty where we've been. Now we're here, so get ready.

> Second Division.

I love how you somehow excuse your lack of attendance with the lack of a stadium. You've said it yourself, the reason you only had 8k in last years final is your team was sucking eggs.

> I did nothing of the sort, idiot. I said that the team sucked and the opponent was the Charleston Battery, so no one went. That's what happens when teams slide - support slips. That's a fact, and it has nothing to do with lack or existence of a stadium. Your city is not unique, and it will happen to your beloved Sounders as well, should the fates cause a season to go awry. You could have put Anfield or Camp Nou in Lot 8 and no one would have gone. Nonetheless, the team still won.

Keep living in the past, we own you in the present. Enjoy shadily winning the bid for the game, it's the only thing you and your mediocre crowd will be winning anytime soon.

>Yeah. Sure. LIke you did in Seattle. You couldn't hold a second half two-goal advantage at the hour mark. Let's see how you do on the road.
>Don't you get it? In the last five years, four teams have won MLS cup, and seven teams have contested it. For USOC it's five winners and eight teams (1 USL team) making appearances. That's parity! That you have a crap load of people in the stands doesn't matter other than for "atmosphere"! With a $2.3 million dollar cap, no one ever gets very far out in front of anyone else, and teams don't NEED 30,000 people to support themselves. That's parity. It's all well and good you draw that many, but you're making money to support, say, the Dynamo and the Pink Cows. I really don't think you understand the league's business model, at all.
>Lots of supporters is a good thing. It gives you a buffer to suffer the thin times, but it's not necessarily going to lead you to successes in this League. Only good management and play can do that. You look like you have that going for you. Too bad your supporters are a bunch of delusional SOBs

Wow, are D.C. fans so used to mediocrity that you consider that a "smackdown?" LOL, good one.
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After I stipulate that Seattle draws more people than DCU and you have a nice NFL stadium to play in, you have nothing to talk about. The rest is letting your over-enthusiasm make silly, stupid, outrageous, or just plain weird claims, and then pointing out that you've done so. I don't have to do much.

Do you idiots seriously believe you'd draw over 20k to Qwest for a 1PM match on a Monday?

Seriously?

Put the Kool-Aid down.

It really doesn't matter how many people are in the stands at RFK for the Open Cup Final.
What matters, is that the match will indeed be in RFK because United were able to submit a more appealing bid to the USSF. Deal with it.

P.S. 90% of your "Supporters" just standing and looking goofy with a scarf and a jersey does not equal atmosphere. Hearing ECS sing is like listening to a funeral dirge, no passion. I suppose that's what happens when you have a 99.99999% caucasian, upper middle-class, fan base. None of you would last 20 minutes in the bouncing Barra.

It's nice that someone from the front office could be distracted from the Real Madrid love fest long enough to be outraged. How much promotion can they realistically expect their staff to do in the short amount of time between the Dog & Pony show at FedEx and the Open Cup Final?

I suppose that's what happens when you have a 99.99999% caucasian, upper middle-class, fan base. None of you would last 20 minutes in the bouncing Barra.

Posted by: alecw81
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Not a dis of you or the Barra but the ethnic/socio-economic shot might have been a bit of a dangerous card to start playing.
Sometimes it opens the door to going places that we really don't have any interest in going. Some "ugly" type places if ya can feel me.

Any team that can't get at least 20,000 fans should be regulated to the USL regardless of their record. What's the point of playing in front of nobody?

Posted by: AlbinoSounder
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You guys just got out of the USL (where you were an excellecnt organization with a so-so attendance) and now that you are in MLS and have a marching band, you are already talking smack?!?!

You guys have a wonderful thing going. I sincerely congratulate you. You were the class of USL1 and you immediately have made your presence felt in MLS. A model for any USL1 club hoping to step up with the Big boys.

You guys deserve mad props. Straight up.

But ya might not want to be calling other clubs out over attendance and talk about "why play if no one if there". Ya might wanna slow your roll a bit, Playah.

Coz the USL1 Sounders played at Kitsap, too and sometimes not that many people were there other than the hardcore ECS (maximum respect to David Faulk and company) but y'all (while often doing better than my beloved Puerto Rico Islanders) weren't exactly the sporting event "juggernaut" that y'all are now.

Adrian H. should be more than used to "nonfinancial" league/sponsor preferences when bids are being reviewd for acceptance. That is one of the biggest complaints about the USL.

Some people who have posted here are clearly newbies where the USOC is concerned. Here are the attendances for USOC finals in recent years, from the relevant Wiki articles:

2007 10,618
2006 8,185
2005 10,000
2004 8,819
2003 5,183

Thus, last year's attendance of 8,200 was par for the course. For anyone to call it "pathetic" is to dismiss the USOC as a whole. Is that really what people in Seattle want to do?

And these games were played at MLS venues that normally draw 15,000 or more for MLS matches. It is a fact of life that USOC, for various reasons, simply isn't on the radar of a lot of MLS fans. That is probably the case in Seattle, just as it is everywhere else. To assert that 67,000 people would attend a USOC final in Seattle, just as they would come out in such numbers to see Chelsea or Real Madrid, is ludicrous. I can believe that a USOC final in Seattle would draw more than the usual 8-10K spectators, but probably more like 15K, 20K tops.

I think the Seattle folks should focus their energies on catching the ,a href="http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2009520810_blowdarts23m.html">Seattle Blowgun Cyclist Hunter instead of promoting an internet slapfight.

Come on guys, you're supposed to by cyclist friendly!.... Or was that Portland?

@cow_pie
"To assert that 67,000 people would attend a USOC final in Seattle, just as they would come out in such numbers to see Chelsea or Real Madrid, is ludicrous. I can believe that a USOC final in Seattle would draw more than the usual 8-10K spectators, but probably more like 15K, 20K tops"

I'm talking about this USOC final with the Sounders in it, without them in it yes 8-10k.

Have you been to Seattle since the Sounders started playing in the MLS this year? The place is nuts about the team, 32k to watch ANY team in the MLS, the FO doesn't open the upper deck at Qwest to keep tickets limited/in demand. To watch them win their first trophy as an MLS team 67k no prob, provided the game is at a decent time

Did you think that the USOC final is normally played at a neutral site? If so, you are betraying your lack of familiarity with USOC. The USOC final is always played at the home of one of the two teams, and it almost always draws crowds that are little more than half the average attendance for MLS matches at that venue.

This was posted on a different thread, but if anything, it is more germane here:
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Just wait until Hanauer finds out the Gold Cup final isn't in Seattle and that the group stage was the only doubleheader they get. I'm waiting for him to explain that it was hard for fans to attend the July 4th match against Granada because it was a holiday and the 15,387 who made it only attended because they didn't have the day off.

We're beating you in almost every aspect - points, attendance, TV ratings. So you're jealous. Makes perfect sense. What do you have left? Some tired old memories of the past, and classic name-calling of Sounders fans. It's like watching a 90-year old on life support going on and on about war-stories. Cute, but sad.

Seattle is a first year club, but that does not mean our General Manager or owners are new to business.
US Soccer's main criteria for the US Open Cup Championship bid (like all the bids for the Cup) was financial. Who could bring in the most money for US Soccer.
With great respect to DC United and their franchise, they will be lucky to get 10,000 to the cup match. Seattle can (even if the match had to be played at 1pm during a weekday) put 30,000+ in QWest field for this event. I cannot believe that DC United's bid is pouring more money into the US Soccer accounts than Seattle's bid.
If US Soccer won't demonstrate their process (make it transparent) to the public, then at least pull in both DC and Seattle's GMs to go over the award process with them so that everybody is happy.
Adrian has not overreached here - he is asking for transparency in the decision.

Also, DC United's schedule is no more difficult than Seattle's this year. To indicate that DC simply can't travel to Seattle due to schedule conflicts is bollocks. Schedules are schedules, Championships are just that. Come to play or go away!

You Sounders guys need to chill. I love the passion but there is no room for all this hate. Let's face it, the league needs fans who love the game and you obviously do. So go ahead, support your team and we will support ours but this crap about the stadium and all the others BS is just that, BS. We have a great team with great fans. It seems you do also. I have been supportive of your club and hope you do well, except when you play DC. However, the comments on this board lead me to believe that you may not understand that respect is earned and it takes time. Also, please don't talk about our attendance when you clearly don't understand why it is the way it is. Also, don’t talk about our stadium situation like it’s a good thing for you, it isn’t. Any problem with any team in this league is shared by all the teams. Now that you are an MLS team you would be wise to support ALL the MLS teams. Take the time to learn that by supporting the whole MLS system you ultimately support your team. We may not like the system, but that’s just the way it is.

i'm a season ticket holder for the Sounders and did purchase tickets to each of the cup matches in the last month or two. i would not be able to attend a 1 p.m. game due to work. The same would hold true for most.

i'd honestly be surprised if they could get 10k into Qwest in the middle of the working day. You have to think of the logistics of the police directing traffic, all the employees of the stadium, etc...

i think time is the single biggest reason that killed it for Qwest as the host.

In 1996, its inaugural year, United won MLS Cup and USOC. The playoff games at RFK leading up to the MLS final (which was at a neutral site) drew crowds of over 20,000. The USOC final at RFK drew 7,200. I was one of the 20,000+, but not one of the 7,200. In fact, I barely followed United's progress in USOC at all. Why? Because I knew virtually nothing about USOC, and it meant little to me at the time. Apparently there were 13,000 other people who felt the same way. People will avidly follow their team's progress in MLS, because they know what it is: the analog to leagues in other American team sports that they are used to following. USOC has no real counterpart in other American team sports, so people other than hardcore soccer fans don't know what to make of it, at least not at first.

I think it would be great if someday a USOC final at Qwest were to draw 30,000 fans or more, but it will take time. That is why I think the game in September at RFK will have an attendance of 10-12K, and if it had been held in Seattle, it would have drawn 15-20K.

DCU99fan: i'm with you brother. i just think when a fan of any given team incites personal or juvenile attacks on a forum such as this, everyone resorts to it. There are plenty of mature & reasonable fans on both sides. My best friend is a United fan, and i rooted for DC before the Sounders moved into the MLS.

There will be disatisfaction on the part of any club that doesn't win the bid for the final game. this is normal.

First, Hanauer was undoubtedly asked a stupid question by a reporter. Why people insist on responding to the "Don't you just hate DCU?" questions is beyond me.

Second, we had just assumed that DC got home field due to goal differential or some similar test, not "bidding." I think potential attendance and timing should be considered, but why not the usual home field advantage rules? I thought back when the Galaxy won in 2005 it was in LA due to some decision-making performance like goal differential?
Third, having the Open Cup final on a workday afternoon during the biggest vacation week in the summer is nuts. This part was a result of DC scheduling issues. Could Seattle have had it on the weekend? Another way to demonstrate a complete lack of respect for the tournament: scheduling when no one can make it. (It took us 20 hours to get to/from the semi-final Tuesday. Some people with kids or some jobs couldn't have thought about it.)

And how many fans would have shown up for Grenada in DC, Philly, anywhere? 15,000 sounds like a good number for a game with that opponent, time, and MLS schedule to take into account?

Fourth, I sincerely hope that DC fills the stadium (well, with some room for Sounders fans like us who will be traveling 6000 miles roundtrip) We always admired the supporters in DC--huge numbers, consistent spirit. Don't understand the antipathy, though. This is all media hype. Hanauer is asked stupid question, your guy is asked to respond. Let's him and you fight. BTW, Seattle has had a solid 14,000 fan base for the many many years it was in USL. It's not the new kid on the block in the way that's been suggested.

Great points everyone. I do hope it is a hard fought and fun to watch match. I will be attending the match (traveling from Seattle).
I still hold reservation about the process though. MLB can get baseball fans to games during the week in the middle of the day (do baseball fans not work?) and I truly believe Sounders would fill our usual Revenue Controlled Stadium (30,000 seats). Some of the comments are a little silly. If you are travelling to an event, you are not working anyway - so what does the time matter? But I hear ya. Having an evening game is much easier all the way around - weekends even better!!
Hoping for a great match. See ya there!

For anyone thinking about coming to Seattle:
We have at least 20 rockin' sports bars within walking distance of the stadium (probably many more than that, just haven't completed the survey yet). We don't tailgate because the Qwest people don't allow it, but it's beyond unnecessary. We get to go the bars before AND after, watch other games and hang with different fan groups meeting up there.

@cow_pasture
I guess I was a little vague, I was referring to a USOC final in Seattle with a good start time versus a USOC played in any other MLS park. Yes I'm aware that there is a bid process for the potential finalists to host it, DC won it and I'm fine with that. I don't think there was any collusion or conspiracy, maybe they assumed Houston would knock the Sounders out, maybe they assumed Seattle would be tapped out after huge crowds watching Chelsea and Barcelona, maybe they figured past attendances were fine and didn't care to draw more folks to the game. If they wanted to sell seats they would have hosted in Seattle at a better time slot that 1pm on a Tuesday. If there is one glaring reason why we lost the bid that is it.

I live near Seattle, been to three games, and from what I've seen the Sounders fans are rabid and interest is sky high, not just in Seattle but all over the state. There would be no problems selling 32k for USOC with the normal MLS seating arrangement against DC United. DCU is the perennial power in the MLS and people here know that, Sounders fans would love nothing more than to see our team have a shot at a trophy against them. That's why I think they could sell out Qwest if they peeled off the tarps on the upper deck

mikes1p: Thank you for your comments, and for getting my onscreen name right this time (cow_pie seems a bit disrespectful, no?). I also had in mind a USOC final in Seattle with a good start time. You'd think that a USOC final against an MLS opponent would draw as many people as a contest between the same two teams on the MLS schedule, but the history of USOC says you can count on losing one-third to one-half of them. As I said in an earlier post, I suspect that one big reason is that USOC is neither fish nor fowl to a lot of American sports fans, and that is probably as true in Seattle as anywhere else. I'd love to be proven wrong. I'm an American soccer fan first, and a fan of any particular MLS club, college varsity team, etc., second, so the more people you can lure to Qwest for any occasion, the happier I will be.

I love how DCU fans are defending their president when he called them out as fair-weather fans.

"...but our crowds are pretty good too and we expect this year we will get far more people in the building than we did last year [8,200]. Last year we played a USL team in the final and, the way our team was going in general at that point, our fans were disappointed and disillusioned."

Yeah, that sounds like some great "support" for your team. Your President has to make excuses for you.

And hey, maybe if the new stadium thing doesn't work out, Prince George's United has a pretty good ring to it.

"You Sounders guys need to chill. I love the passion but there is no room for all this hate. Let's face it, the league needs fans who love the game and you obviously do. So go ahead, support your team and we will support ours but this crap about the stadium and all the other BS is just that, BS."

So when you guys get the short end of the stick it's time to tone down the hate? Oh wait that's after you get your shots in about tailgating parties, Pike's Place, the FieldTurf, Yuppies, Wankers, and throwing piss and batteries at Kasey Keller. Don't tell us to "tone down the hate". Besides your little newspaper boy himself said that "it is so on".

But a little more grown man level, @4avocats, I lived in Seattle for a number of year, and for a handful of them we lived up on 6th and South Washington and could hear Seahawks fans roar from our balcony on Sunday afternoons. We naturally shopped for a lot of our groceries at Uwajimaya. I'm plenty familiar with all the bars that you guys like to pre game up at. I just think it's a damn shame that the tailgating is so regulated when you clearly have the finest meats, seafood, etc. within walking distance of the closest lots at Qwest. If I still was living in Seattle I'd be happy as a giant Geoduck pregaming it to the gills at home until I hopped on my unicycle and rolled down to Qwest.
Who want's to stand in line for pints when you can kick back with a cooler of your own, smoke your smoke, and grill your meats without being hassled by the man?
I'm not surprised in the least that you guys love a sausage party and actually want to go to the bar and hang out with dudes and keep talking about soccer after you watched a game, after hanging out with tons of dudes before the game.

And yeah, I don't recommend yelling at Blanco when he has the ball.. he scores when you do that...

The time slot is the only thing that prevented the match from being here, Seattle would have outdrawn DC.
I appreciate that DC dominateed when the league was new.
I also appreciate all the comments about how the 30K ae there because of the marketing, I am not sure I ever saw or heard a commercial advertising for season tickets.
Fine they wanted the game in primetime I hoe DC goes over 15k, the Open Cup here against MLS teams in past years for early rounds drew 10 to 15k.
There is no argument that DC is the best club in MLS history, but I can bet that Seattle is going to try and wrestle that away from them down the road.
DC had better win, because they don't want to let the new club win and have a shot at the double in the first year.
Here is a guarantee the MLS cup will have 30k plus with or without the Sounders, with the Sopunders they will have 60K plus
Good luck Old guard vs up and comers. It should be fun