00:05:11asciilifeform:rfc4480 sayeth, '5.2.3. Version 4 Signature Packet Format.... [buncha crud snipped] ... Two-octet field holding the left 16 bits of the signed hash value. One or more multiprecision integers comprising the signature. ...'

00:10:55punkman:"The concatenation of the data being signed and the signature data from the version number through the hashed subpacket data (inclusive) is hashed. The resulting hash value is what is signed. The left 16 bits of the hash are included in the Signature packet to provide a quick test to reject some invalid signatures."

00:11:22mircea_popescu:The concatenation of the data being signed and the signature data from the version number through the hashed subpacket data (inclusive) is hashed. The resulting hash value is what is signed. The left 16 bits of the hash are included in the Signature packet to provide a quick test to reject some invalid signatures.

00:12:35*:mircea_popescu expects to live in a world where everything is done EXACTLY as he would do it. failure of perceptible world to conform to this expectation is a crime, more serious than any other, and to be punished by destruction.

00:26:03asciilifeform:'The concatenation of the data being signed and the signature data from the version number through the hashed subpacket data (inclusive) is hashed. The resulting hash value is what is signed. The left 16 bits of the hash are included in the Signature packet to provide a quick test to reject some invalid signatures.'

00:52:12asciilifeform:otp has precisely three weaknesses even in principle: generation of key (solved by civilized rng); reuse of key (solved by erasing each bit immediately after it is used in a xor); capture of key by enemy (in common with any other cipher! and solved with grenade pin)

00:52:28asciilifeform:that it is not aesthetically pleasing is not a weakness.

01:10:57asciilifeform:how does it help anybody (other than hitler), including mircea_popescu, when hitler knows for certain, but everybody else is left to mathematicize fruitlessly (or, worse, work on faith)

01:11:13mircea_popescu:your notion that hitler's ahead of the curve is spurious.

01:18:41assbot:Logged on 22-08-2015 01:11:30; mircea_popescu: never, inb the entire history of reichs, was this the case. not once.

01:19:00phf:so for the curious it doesn't look like 1.4.19 uses the two-byte hash value anyway. it reads it from disk, it populates it during sign and it can write it to disk, but no actual logic done using it

01:25:32asciilifeform:'well, one could devise methods for signing long messages that don't involve hashing, such as splitting up the message into small segments, tie each segment together with an identifier and a segment sequence number, and sign each individually. However, hashing works so much easier that no one ever considers an alternative.' << quoted verbatim from shit-overflow

01:34:50mircea_popescu:i wasn't at any point contemplating "rsa encryption = rsa run once over the message herp"

01:35:43mircea_popescu:(and i maintain that in all context hybrid encryption is retarde dwithout exception. either fuck or get off the woman.)

01:36:12asciilifeform:the purpose of 'padding' is to a) never have transform of known input deterministically give same output b) prevent arbitrarily flipped bits of ciphertext from yielding a valid (attempt to eat) message

01:38:15asciilifeform:(depending on what method of 'padding' - fucking hate this name! - is used)

01:38:33mircea_popescu:and if youy for some incomprehensible reason MUST use a hybrid scheme, use the following : 1. generate random 4096 hash ; 2. cut your message up into N chunks of size up to 2048 ; 3. xor the chunks with 1; encrypt each chunk via rsa

01:38:45asciilifeform:btw i am still trying to figure out why the existing 'padding' algos are so asininely complex

01:38:58asciilifeform:then again, i'm not winning any prizes for knowing the answer to this.

01:48:01phf:(so it's not compare. they run a digest on payload while reading (or separately if detached), then they run digest on own reconstruction of header, then they finalize the digest and do sig verification of provided signature against the digest that they calculated)

02:56:15mod6:asciilifeform: ... if you regenerate the 'orchestra' patches with new vdiff, i will sign'em. otherwise might have to wait a while << hey, no problem. I'll start in on this sometime tomorrow probably.

03:56:54phf:so to continue this archaeological dig, GPG 2.6 clarifies the usage of 2 octets. reads the header, reads the rsa ciphertext, decrypts rsa. rsa contains a digest of some fields from header and the body of message. so first thing he does next is check the first 2-octets of digest againts the 2-octets in header. if the two don't match program bails with "Error: RSA-decrypted block is corrupted. This may be caused either by corrupted data or by usin

03:56:54phf:g the wrong RSA key." message format spec explains "First 2 bytes of the Message Digest inside the RSA-encrypted integer, to help us figure out if we used the right RSA key to check the signature."

04:14:12*:mircea_popescu is tempted to deed a list of key,values of names of various people and start referring to people as "Primitive Man AFMrikO2o3Ka2pcpZ" instead of "Obama" or "Jean Jacques Rousseau" or whatever.

05:14:41mircea_popescu:"The reappearance of HELEN'S BABIES, in its day one of the most popular books in the world?within the British Empire alone it was pirated by twenty different publishing firms, the author receiving a total profit of ?40 from a sale of some hundreds of thousands or millions of copies?will ring a bell in any literate person over thirty-five."

06:48:58mircea_popescu:"A totalitarian society which succeeded in perpetuating itself would probably set up a schizophrenic system of thought, in which the laws of common sense held good in everyday life and in certain exact sciences, but could be disregarded by the politician, the historian, and the sociologist."

09:40:40assbot:Logged on 21-08-2015 23:21:00; mircea_popescu: "Welcome, kiddo, to how the real world works. You go ahead and place your crazy protest bids way off in the bottom of the sociological order book and scream that someday, SOMEDAY, the market will come down to meet you, and you will be vindicated.

09:40:56assbot:Logged on 21-08-2015 23:21:00; mircea_popescu: The rest of us who actually make shit happen in the front lines of consensus back on planet earth will continue to be unaffected by your efforts apart from their modest value as chuckle fuel over beers and sushi."

09:49:00punkman:"Motherboard was given a contact email address for The Impact Team by an intermediary. After reaching out, the hackers replied with a message signed with the same PGP key posted with the Ashley Madison dumps. " << of course they couldn't provide the signed replies

09:49:19mircea_popescu:either they stole someone's shit, in which case i want the original ; or else they made it up, in which case i dun want to hear it.

13:05:58punkman:"before he resigned from the library he realized that his trick had occurred to someone else. Several of the paintings he made had been replaced, his copies stolen. So the Academy was exhibiting fakes of fakes and someone was selling, or trying to sell, art by Xiao."

14:01:30assbot:Logged on 22-08-2015 09:49:19; mircea_popescu: either they stole someone's shit, in which case i want the original ; or else they made it up, in which case i dun want to hear it.

14:01:52asciilifeform:if the folks allegedly interviewed want to me to read this shit, they can sign it.

14:03:02asciilifeform:(mircea_popescu's bag of tricks is ultra-handy for items like this. specifically, in re: the ancient art of not wasting time with spurious crud)

14:05:02asciilifeform:http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-08-2015#1248273 << in my eyes, a ~skilled~ art forger is a hero second only to a hypothetical fella who puts an actual bullet through a bilderberger. why, exactly, should i have any sympathy for the folks hitching a ride in the only 100% effective inflation shelter known, at the expense of literally everybody else ?

14:05:17asciilifeform:there is no buterin's waterfall for rembrandts and vermeers

14:06:27asciilifeform:no usg confiscates them, to keep the price from rocketing to alpha centauri. the 'art market' not only destroyed fine art as a going concern, but is one of the giant turtles on which the elephants stand

14:06:49asciilifeform:propping up the 'world order' or however one calls it.

14:10:01asciilifeform:(ask how they destroyed fine art? not by 'hiding it in vaults', no. by elevating steaming piles of shit like jackson pollack's splashes, on account of them being supposedly 'authenticable' in his bucket swirling patterns, to 'fine art')

15:50:42asciilifeform:trinque: i did the genesis.vpatch thing solely to simplify 'v' build system, which i was working on; such that there is no longer any shenanigans with tarballs, copying of crud, etc

15:50:51asciilifeform:everything that anyone is to be signing is a vpatch.

18:16:50asciilifeform:fluffypony: the 'fun' on mac begins when you diverge from traditional bsd utils and try using items like perl, python, or - satan forbid - attempt to work with init scripts or other customary denizens of /etc/

18:48:45asciilifeform:but, if understand correctly, there is an alternate hypothesis: the costly and elaborate 'authentification' is not to authenticate, but to annoint

18:49:22asciilifeform:rockefeller's vermeer is genuine and fuckyou because he is rockefeller; the one mr schmuck found in his cellar - will be annointed fake (or no one will even bother) unless it suits a rockefeller to bless it.

18:49:56asciilifeform:(so he can pick it up for $1000 and magick it into $40m)

18:50:57mircea_popescu:what part of doublethink you think got cancelled ? the man with two maja desnudas simply is twice as happy.

18:51:09asciilifeform:i am enthusiastically in favour of elaborate art fraudsters if they can ddos this process.

18:51:16mircea_popescu:this would be true if there existed a usg agency of authenticity.

18:51:38asciilifeform:not twice as happy if he can't buy 2x the turkeys

18:59:30mircea_popescu:but anyway, this suggests a fine exercise for the esteemed lordship and beyond. not everything in this life is code, and a gentleman needs to study and know a loit more than rubies. so therefore : which classical nude do you like the face of ?

19:00:17mircea_popescu:but i don't mean copacetically like. i mean like like one's supposed to like art : un coup fumant. if she came off the toille you'd have no choice but to drop everything and marry her.

19:13:28mircea_popescu:Authenticating a work of art is often difficult, and more difficult when the art is four or five hundred years old, and at least one tool for the expert, to wit, provenance, is often limited or non-existent. And, science (materials analysis) does not get us very far since many of the problems for Old Masters come right out of the artist's studio (think Rembrandt). Thus, for Old Masters at least, the expert is left to r

19:13:28mircea_popescu:ely almost entirely on expert opinion concerning the quality of the art, that is to say, is the quality of the art being examined of the quality expected of a painting by the artist?in this case, Caravaggio.

19:13:28mircea_popescu:And then, when the experts have come to their conclusion, and that conclusion is challenged in court, (as opposed to the marketplace or in critical writing), a judge must decide that the experts were right or wrong.

19:21:41mircea_popescu:it's not really hard to make, need pot with water and coarse ground corn. and a woman that knows how long to boil it and what proportions.

19:22:34*:asciilifeform only learned how to make proper 'манная каша' (english, approx, 'cream of wheat') as an adult; and is still tempted to try doing it in a chemist's double boiler with magnetic stir bar

19:27:12assbot:Logged on 22-08-2015 13:05:58; punkman: "before he resigned from the library he realized that his trick had occurred to someone else. Several of the paintings he made had been replaced, his copies stolen. So the Academy was exhibiting fakes of fakes and someone was selling, or trying to sell, art by Xiao."

19:28:18mircea_popescu:For every auction sale, a catalogue is produced describing each painting to be sold. Every entry indicates the certainty with which Sotheby's is prepared to attribute it to a particular artist. The catalogue entry may describe a painting in the following ways: i) Simply putting the name of the artist, for example, ?Giovanni Bellini,' means that, in Sotheby's opinion, the work is by Bellini. ii) Attributed to Giovanni

19:28:18mircea_popescu: Bellini means that, in Sotheby's opinion, this is probably a work by Bellini, but there is less certainty expressed as to authorship than in the preceding category. iii) Studio of Giovanni Bellini means that, in their opinion, this is a work by an unknown hand in the studio of Bellini, and it may or may not have been executed under his direction. iv) Circle of Giovanni Bellini means that, in their opinion, it is a wor

19:28:18mircea_popescu:k by an as yet unidentified but distinct hand, closely associated with Bellini but not necessarily his pupil. v) Style/Follower of Giovanni Bellini means that, in their opinion, this is a work by a painter working in Bellini's style, contemporary or nearly contemporary, but not necessarily his pupil. ?Contemporary or nearly contemporary' means that it was painted within about 50 years of Bellini's work. vi) Manner of

19:28:23mircea_popescu: Giovanni Bellini means that in their opinion, this is a work in the style of Bellini and of a later date. vii) After Giovanni Bellini means that in their opinion, this is a copy of a known work of Bellini.

19:28:33mircea_popescu:check these people out, they have fine art authorship grading down to a fine art!

19:31:30ag3nt_zer0:"The final directorial project the legendary Orson Welles completed during his lifetime, F for Fake is less a documentary than an example of cinematic free association on the topic of trickery. Much of the film is in fact drawn from other sources, most notably an unfinished documentary by Francois Reichenbach on the notorious Elmyr de Hory, whose extremely skillful forgeries of famous paintings caused scandals amongst art

19:31:57ag3nt_zer0:of irony, de Hory's interviewer is author Clifford Irving, who became infamous due to a forgery of his own: a falsified autobiography of Howard Hughes. Welles openly re-edits and manipulates this footage, using it as a spine for his own commentary, arguing that there is an extremely close relationship between art and lying, and citing instances from his own career to prove the point."

19:36:07assbot:Logged on 06-03-2015 03:29:02; mircea_popescu: making money is a purely ~political~ function. if you are among the favoured elite of the respublica veneta, you then may invest in the ships, and make a profit. if not, not.

19:40:46mircea_popescu:the other's a more fundamental type of dispute, you could stilisize as "between man and god".

19:41:00asciilifeform:i see the proceedings of that court as similar to those of all modern courts: a continuation of the basic lie of 'rule of law', where 'it is not the sultan who condemns you to impalement, but the majesty of the law'

19:41:03mircea_popescu:roman practice suffered the tension, but also made it amply abundant

19:44:23asciilifeform:there was, i think, a third, more pressing problem: why ought the sultan rule, when he can invent bureaucracy and have amoebas rule in his stead, while he bangs 10,000 chicks/year and smokes opium

19:47:14mircea_popescu:they're both equally ridiculous things, for the same exact reason : made "as best we could" by the russians of the time, who were peasants not lawmakers or tank makers. they have all the qualities of chinese farm steel.

19:48:23asciilifeform:(more complicated story, with tank. diesel motor was an unambiguous win, as all tank makers eventually came to know.)

19:48:28mircea_popescu:on the practical side, they both WORKED, if one's tolerant with the concept. soviet law maintained order in a larger thing than the us, better than the us managed.

19:49:13asciilifeform:except it was not, largely, 'law' which maintained order. 'law' was simply the religious incantation uttered by judge before a troublemaker was sent to meet his fate

20:15:53mircea_popescu:incidentally, even though modern pigments and computers and what have you, we're not being deluged in fine art, as "you'd expect" (if you were say orwell or some other dumb schmuck with the If a man cannot enjoy the return of spring, why should he be happy in a labour-saving Utopia? What will he do with the leisure that the machine will give him? I have always suspected that if our economic and political problems are e

20:15:53mircea_popescu:ver really solved, life will become simpler instead of more complex, and that the sort of pleasure one gets from finding the first primrose will loom larger than the sort of pleasure one gets from eating an ice to the tune of a Wurlitzer." thing)

20:18:10mircea_popescu:why ? why, because the redditar of 1600 thought himself blessed to "waste his life away" being a "from X's circle" at the very best. whereas the redditard of 2000 thinks his life too valuable to invest in anything. he is now a thinking man, don't you know, an intellectual - everyone's an intellectual that has computers, suddenly - and a tiny little Kitschhochadel in his own right!

20:18:22asciilifeform:mircea_popescu: orwell assumed that full-scale human beings were a naturally-occurring product that could be taken for granted.

20:18:48mircea_popescu:yes. because he was a socialist, which is to say an idiot, and expected socialism, which always is "externalise costs" to be able to do so forever.

20:22:10mircea_popescu:down with the shackles of this evil british empire of the blips which nevertheless creates the sort of people i like, even if i'm not actuaslly good enough to do anything in support. let's build utopia.

20:22:31asciilifeform:as far as i can tell, it was dead long before he learned to read and write

20:22:50asciilifeform:what was he to do, cry over the corpse like his contemporaries? then we would not be reading!

20:22:56mircea_popescu:i did not say orwell was ineffectuial. i said he was stupid.

20:23:04mircea_popescu:yes the bridge is falling whether 5yo cheers it on or not.

20:24:19asciilifeform:at one point, iirc, he quotes the mega-liturgical 'The rich man in his castle, / The poor man at his gate, / God made them, high or lowly, / And ordered their estate.' as an example of the kind of thing that killing christianity finally nailed, and he can't bring himself to miss it

20:24:42asciilifeform:but i don't see that this necessarily qualifies him as a tard. how is one to love something which is incompatible with your own existence ?

20:24:50mircea_popescu:a) never was this nailed, anymore than the sun rising is "nailed".

20:25:04mircea_popescu:and the poor array of the marbles in his head's his problem.

20:25:18mircea_popescu:"So perverse is mankind that every nationality prefers to be misgoverned by its own people than to be well ruled by another."

20:26:14asciilifeform:ergo the old thread re: why a sp4mz0r wants to 'make $ while sleep'

20:26:19mircea_popescu:(which is why they're referred in the feminine)

20:27:39asciilifeform:orwell, like - i suspect - a great many folks, carried out the algo where 'i want the kind of world in which i and others like me can sleep ad libitum and eat well' - and turned that into 'philosophy'

20:29:59asciilifeform:the way i read him, he saw 'socialism' (in the sense of industry having a single mega-imperial owner) as a done deal, with the only question being whether the end result would have a gestapo flavour, british ponce buggery flavour, or some other

20:30:46mircea_popescu:that part i wasnt even discussing, the "economic" side so to speak. yes, moist people are dumb and industry has no need of them, so from their perspertive industry's run by aliens. fine.

20:33:05mircea_popescu:asciilifeform and btw, thinking about it - i now realise visconti, the son of the duke visconti no less, actually is the one example of resistence through culture known. his terra trema was paid for by the communist party. and in it he delivers such a trashing to the pious frauds of the communists as has never before seen.

20:33:31mircea_popescu:the most important film in support of sanity is a story of poor but stupid sicilian fishermen paid for by fucking stalin.

20:33:59mircea_popescu:and i meant in the more homely sense, socialist-books and socialist-philosophy and what have you. not socialist-economy.

20:45:07mircea_popescu:(for the younger log reader, "two-and-sixpence" is not random, but a century ago made half a crown. it is used in a sense similar to "too clever by half", because that's really what half a crown is. worse than either a whole crown or no crown at all. at least in the context of this discussion)

20:47:50mircea_popescu:asciilifeform come to think of it - he has a deeply unwarranted sense of superiority over shaw. easily the most important thinker of the period in all the english speaking lands.

20:48:02mircea_popescu:i suspect this is also based on not having read.

21:08:29mircea_popescu:anyway, the main problem with that art ruling thing, getting back to it, is that revisionism in inflation is a bitch. specifically, that sale was in 2006, before the first bout of "quantitative easing". most art of all description sells today for 10x to 100x what it did two decades ago, simply because dollars today, and euros today, are scarcely worth 10 cents. (no, this does not mean nothing to the slaves that spend "

21:08:30mircea_popescu:their" "dollars" to buy from mcdonalds and zara. money only means money in the hands of the people who can use it independently, and what someone with tens of millions to his name was in 1995, is what someone wit ha billion to his name today. i'd know.)

21:08:44mircea_popescu:so in plain point of fact "the guy would have gotten more in the alternative world" bla bla bla.

21:19:48mircea_popescu:suppose i have a work picasso himself signed with the title "stanislav's teapot shaped head"

21:20:03mircea_popescu:and i explain that this comes to me "through family".

21:20:35mircea_popescu:except this "through family" claim is documented through five different testations, and it so happens that my uncle was a picasso expert who wrote extensively of this picasso work his brother owned.

21:41:08asciilifeform:it is a regular occurrence in usa that some schmuck find $canvas at an estate sale, then cleans it, it gets taken off his hands for a few hundy, and then a blueblood naturally converts it to 40m by getting it WoTed.

21:41:27mircea_popescu:nobody forces him to go through the "taken off" step.

21:53:59mircea_popescu:special pleading is a category of pleading, which is a category of speech, which happens in the forum, where the speaker proposes that one member of a category be different from the others on no grounds.

21:56:38mircea_popescu:sure, and exact same could be argued (and has been argued, by people arguing from your same chari) about trhe evil capitalists which "do not even see the common people they vampirize"

21:59:14*:asciilifeform doesn't object to elites per se (sorta like objecting to gravity) or to hereditary wealth (also rather like objecting to gravity) but arguing for the degeneracy of a particular set of people

22:04:51asciilifeform:sorta like if a pauper finds a ring of keys - he doesn't get to own the house and car.

22:05:09asciilifeform:(and this happens to be one of the reasons why many folks barf at bitcoin...)

22:05:37mircea_popescu:technically money, in its circulatory form (ie, currency - to distinguish from the money as unit of account, for instance) was coins and bank-notes. coins are now disused, for entirely practical reasons ; and bank-notes come in those two flavours. moving from one to the other isn't THAT big a leap.

22:06:15asciilifeform:aha. i think every kid in usa knows of the $1000 bill, for instance.

22:06:50asciilifeform:but don't be caught with one on the street, yes.

22:07:44asciilifeform:though now i'm hard-pressed to see how fdr's confiscation of gold is illegitimate under the framework outlined in this thread

22:07:45mircea_popescu:for the record, it's not even clear moving from bearer to certified insturment is anti-liberty. for insmtance - hansa used the certifierd instrument greatly, because as a merchant, giving your son a plain "pay the bearer so much silver upon presentation of this note in such town" was merely an invitation to any highwayman on route to "please fuck this young man in the ass and here's the pay for your trouble"

22:08:04mircea_popescu:asciilifeform it did prevail in the justice of the time, did it not.

22:30:23antonosika:I am antonosika fingerprint 71A1EC4E1B6C7DD853FD856C86AC5789F93ED2E7. I'll do anything to prove it. I'm looking forward to claim a future contract. But I do not have access to my secret key.

22:30:26asciilifeform:punkman: actually you're right, i misread. assumed that the sig in the text is the sig in question

22:30:37asciilifeform:punkman: but apparently jurov's turdatron accepts a standalong sig with no payload..

22:30:48asciilifeform:this actually means that it is vulnerable to to shitflooding

22:37:18assbot:Logged on 22-08-2015 15:41:34; trinque: I recall discussion of removing the timestamps, but didn't find a conclusion there

22:38:22asciilifeform:mircea_popescu: if he paid out to a random keyless amoeba, that'd be reason to conclude that he was shot and replaced not even by hitler's agent but by a street dog

22:38:37antonosika:asciilifeform: hypothetically - as long as there is only one suggestion, from an impostor or not, for what account to make a payment to AND the contract finalises, wouldn't a future delivery contract state that a payment should take place?

22:39:00asciilifeform:antonosika: instead of making this argument, go claim the megatonne of gold sitting in zurich since ww2

22:39:18mats:how does that make sense? you may merely be the first to make the claim, and the genuine article did not yet get around to taking delivery

22:39:21asciilifeform:antonosika: after all, 'payment should take place' and 'only one suggestion', yours

22:53:50mircea_popescu:b) you farm these and let them age, what's the big deal. 99% of all social media accounts are registered for the purpose of aging and then be used in a scam exactly like is contemplated here.

23:33:17mircea_popescu:because the whitegoods are fucking made for a house with running water by people who have running water and intend to continue having it.

23:38:05mircea_popescu:"There remains after today no alternative manner to deploy Bitcoin software, or indeed any software that is not a toy intended to be used by children playing, outside of this paradigm. May the switchover be bloody and painful in all the right places." is not some sort of a joke, and in no case can it be waved aside.

23:38:17mircea_popescu:it is a central tenant of computer science, henceforth.

23:49:49ben_vulpes:mircea_popescu: i was not reading messages at the time

23:49:50mod6:oh this is pretty neat. so I got the mechanics tested & rebased for rel1 -- off of classic patches & genesis.vpatch to be sure. created a "rel1.vpatch" from that. then tested it, worked good on top of extracted genesis.vpatch. then did one of these numbers "cat genesis.vpatch >> rel1-fromair.vpatch ; cat rel1.vpatch >> rel1-fromair.vpatch ; patch -p1 < rel1-fromair.vpatch"