Whiie Italy has its extensive symphonic scene from the early 70s, germany with the Krautrock genre offering a modicum of talented groups in that genre; it seemd that France tended to toss up comparatively few top tier or even second tier Prog groups as compared to other Europeen countries. Ange (IMO)as I've stated in this site previously, are equal to Genesis or Gentle Giant amonst albums in my collection. But after them the offerings quickly become competent, but not exactly earth shattering. So, what's your take on this ? as a quick note, I find that France produces many singer-songwriter/song interpreters, thereby diminishing the number of artists that would pursue a career in the prog field ... Could it be the "chansonniers" tradition, the expressive pop scene (Edith Piaf, a goddess among women when ti comes to singing) OR simply the choices made by groupos as they developed their sound ,,,

According to many sites there's a sub-genre called French Theatric Symphonic, with high influence of Genesis but with a clear French personality, bands like Ange, Atoll and Mona Lisa represent this style and all are in the same level.

Ange rules. Also, very beautiful lyrics. Unique keyboard sound (like a organ filtered through a hairdryer). I have all albums 72-80 and never grow tired to listen. Also saw them live a couple of years ago (C. Descamps and the young ones) and the man is still great.

You're completely right, of course. I am but a wiggly worm, sir, a wiggly worm ... All the bands mentioned in the above posts are all & always included amongst the Masters of Prog, you know Genesis, Gentle Giant, King Crimson, PFM, Le Orme, Pink Floyd, Kraftwerk, Jethro Tull, Strawbs. Now, if I reconsider my initial proposition, I wonder if you read it correctly. To simplify things for you, here is an example - the UK has Genesis, Gentle Giant, King Crimson, Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd, Yes, all that are generally considered as being Prog Gods, i.e. top tier progressive rock acts. Italy has PFM, Le Orme, Banco (to a point), and this site even has decreed Italian symphonic prog as a "sub-genre". France, on the other hand, for all of its cultural heft, has produced Ange, & yes, Magma. But the quality or standing if you will, drops precipitously after these two. Atoll is a good group, but they are second tier. Arachnoid were interesting, but their "oeuvre" is not extensive. There are many talented french groups which you have mentioned, but in my readings within this site, most times they are mentioned or referred to only in context of other french groups. The scandinavian countries have an interesting prog scene, but outside of 2 or 3 groups, none have set the prog world on fire (I am a big fan of Anglagard). So to terminate this interminable treatise on what I mean by "top tier", I would like to add one last thing. I sometimes find that the responses in some threads gives the impression that the "responders" have not exactly read the question or proposition, & use it as a flimsy reason to go off on their own tangent or "pet" peeve. I bow to your (un)important title, which as i contribute more to this site, seems to mean one has written more than others. So, if you can argue that Carpe Diem are the equal of Gentle Giant, or Clearlight clearly surpass Pink FLoyd, or even that Pulsar deserve more adulation than PFM, then please make your case. And before you diss a fellow contributor (I supposedly have no idea what I am talking about), allow your brain cells time to actually understand the question. p.s. to quote our national hero Acadieman - La dignite ne se trouve pas dans la possession d'honneur, mais dans la conscience qu'on le deserve (Aristotle - sort of)

Sorry, I just felt talked down to by someone who seemingly wasn't having its' best day ...or maybe he just needs a Camaro ... P.S. I see BJH on your lastfm list type thing. Are they really a poor man's Moody Blues for lack of a better comparison ? I've not been able to get into them when listening to the samples & mp3s available.

You're completely right, of course. I am but a wiggly worm, sir, a wiggly worm ... All the bands mentioned in the above posts are all & always included amongst the Masters of Prog, you know Genesis, Gentle Giant, King Crimson, PFM, Le Orme, Pink Floyd, Kraftwerk, Jethro Tull, Strawbs. Now, if I reconsider my initial proposition, I wonder if you read it correctly. To simplify things for you, here is an example - the UK has Genesis, Gentle Giant, King Crimson, Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd, Yes, all that are generally considered as being Prog Gods, i.e. top tier progressive rock acts. Italy has PFM, Le Orme, Banco (to a point), and this site even has decreed Italian symphonic prog as a "sub-genre". France, on the other hand, for all of its cultural heft, has produced Ange, & yes, Magma. But the quality or standing if you will, drops precipitously after these two. Atoll is a good group, but they are second tier. Arachnoid were interesting, but their "oeuvre" is not extensive. There are many talented french groups which you have mentioned, but in my readings within this site, most times they are mentioned or referred to only in context of other french groups. The scandinavian countries have an interesting prog scene, but outside of 2 or 3 groups, none have set the prog world on fire (I am a big fan of Anglagard). So to terminate this interminable treatise on what I mean by "top tier", I would like to add one last thing. I sometimes find that the responses in some threads gives the impression that the "responders" have not exactly read the question or proposition, & use it as a flimsy reason to go off on their own tangent or "pet" peeve. I bow to your (un)important title, which as i contribute more to this site, seems to mean one has written more than others. So, if you can argue that Carpe Diem are the equal of Gentle Giant, or Clearlight clearly surpass Pink FLoyd, or even that Pulsar deserve more adulation than PFM, then please make your case. And before you diss a fellow contributor (I supposedly have no idea what I am talking about), allow your brain cells time to actually understand the question. p.s. to quote our national hero Acadieman - La dignite ne se trouve pas dans la possession d'honneur, mais dans la conscience qu'on le deserve (Aristotle - sort of)

I haven't heard Carpe Diem, don't like Pulsar or Atoll, and of course the british bands have an advantige of simply being from britain.

Can't see kraut or italian symphonic being any more important subgenre than in the 70's, the 100% french genre, Zeuhl. And isn't it obvious that if Gentle Giant were french they would be just as good, but more marginal? Nobody would care about The Strawbs if they were anything but british. This has nothing to do with standing high above anything.

I love most of the bands you mention, but I know hundreds of french prog-albums better than anything Strawbs ever released. (I've got nothing against Strawbs either. Just a little boring sometimes, that's all)

Except for the great Magma, Ange, Clearlight and Archanoid you might not know about;

Check some of these out first, if you're not only talking about popularity and sales figures. I'm not misunderstanding anything. I and several others here, know a lot more about the fantastic french progressive scene than you do.

Ask some of the kind and knowledgable people working on this site. Avestin or Black Velvet. They'll probably guide you.

According to many sites there's a sub-genre called
French Theatric Symphonic, with high influence of Genesis but with a
clear French personality, bands like Ange, Atoll and Mona Lisa
represent this style and all are in the same level.

what about fusion in France? I thought there were a lot of good french fusion bands.Gong was born in france although led by an Aussie.

Perhaps its a cultural thing, we just prefer the english speaking bands, its in our mind cultural mindset. Most pop culture icons are either british or american. Perhaps we need to understand the french mindset a bit more I do think Zeuhl prog is pretty good, but takes a while to understand.

Anyway Rocktopus I think Gentle Giant are second tier, alright but certainly not prog gods, I think that they followed in the footsteps of Yes and Jethro Tull a bit too much. I think a lot of the British Symphonic groups get too much attention on this sight and, at times, some are a little overrated.

Anyway Rocktopus I think Gentle Giant are second tier, alright but certainly not prog gods. I think a lot of the British Symphonic groups get too much attention on this sight and, at times, some are a little overrated.

Doesn't really matter what you personally think of GG, but aren't you basically writing what I just did, using other words?

Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me

Anyway Rocktopus I think Gentle Giant are second tier, alright but certainly not prog gods. I think a lot of the British Symphonic groups get too much attention on this sight and, at times, some are a little overrated.

Doesn't really matter what you personally think of GG, but aren't you basically writing what I just did, using other words?

I was just using GG as an example to illustrate my point about how brits get all the attention. I I do think that in the top hundred on this website for example has many second tier prog bands that shouldn't be there while, many other fine Kraut rock, New Musics ans Avant garde bands are ignored, each time a second tier prog band like Camel or GG get another five star rating I feel like throwing up. What about Can, Neu!, Univers Zero, Magma? etc. So many great bands ignored because not many people go beyond the British Symphonic and Art rock genres.

Does this irrate you Rocktopus ? According to your info your norwegion there must be at least a dozen decent scandinavian prog bands around that no ones heard of because they don't speak english.

According to many sites there's a sub-genre called French Theatric Symphonic, with high influence of Genesis but with a clear French personality, bands like Ange, Atoll and Mona Lisa represent this style and all are in the same level.

Iván

great idea since RPI was such a big hit

Don't worry Micky, I know this is overqualifying, I only mentioned them as a reference.

French Theatric Symphonic is very related to Genesis, they loved the theatrics but the vocals have that Chansonier style bvery unique, it's just Symphonic with a special flavour.

According to
many sites there's a sub-genre called French Theatric Symphonic, with
high influence of Genesis but with a clear French personality, bands
like Ange, Atoll and Mona Lisa represent this style and all are in the
same level.

Iván

great idea since RPI was such a big hit

Don't worry Micky, I know this is overqualifying, I only mentioned them as a reference.

French Theatric Symphonic is very related to Genesis, they loved
the theatrics but the vocals have that Chansonier style bvery unique,
it's just Symphonic with a special flavour.

oh yeah... is there any Genesis connection in the French
theatrical vein?... Ange's first which has that and more came in in 72
when Genesis was still a 2nd or 3rd division prog band outside of
bars in England, and of course Italy
. Looked through Ange's liner notes and didn't see one reference
to Genesis. Ange if I recall correctly had been around since the late
60's

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