The truth about a complex built for veterans and the middle class and how it has evolved through the years to become one of the more interesting and controversial of New York stories.

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Sunday, February 19, 2012

Fresh Direct Vending Machines Coming to Stuy Town?

Fresh Direct Vending Machines coming to Stuy Town? Not yet, and perhaps never. But Rose Associates does have them at another property they manage. I don't believe the above Stoler Report Show has been linked before, but, even though it's over a year old, it still is of considerable interest, particularly as one of the guests is Robert Scaglion, Senior Managing Director, Residential Marketing of Rose Associates. Despite the coziness of the setting with moderator Stoler, there's a "close-to-the-vest" aspect to many of the answers from the participants, who want to paint a positive picture of their holdings and gloss over problems, while gently admitting to some.

Some money quotes from Scaglion:

"Amenities are crucial. It's all about lifestyle. People work very hard to be able to afford the rents that they are paying and they want to come home and be able to go work out or go to the lounge or do some other social entertaining in their amenity space within their own home."

"I think you're going to see an evolution in lifestyle spaces in these buildings where not only will we be providing amenity spaces, we'll be programing the events for them. "

And my favorite:

"People want services very convenient to them and food is a big part of it. Not many people are cooking."

They need to make a decision. Is Stuyvesant Town for families or college kids? Nobody in their right mind is going to pay market rate for their apartment if it's situated next to a dormitory. Likewise, if security must be called constantly for dorm noise the children will feel harassed and the dorm companies won't want to house them here either. Which brings us to the lack of vision, leadership and responsibility needed to save this property. We're all screwed.

Jeremiah’s Vanishing New York blog nails this on the head with the "Suburbanization of New York" link that’s on his home page.“It's a world peopled by 20-something interns who can somehow afford to split rents of $3000+ a month, who come to New York from the Midwest, eschewing things like walkups because living in a gated, fully loaded environment "is just so much better in so many ways. It's like living in a hotel. Everything's always convenient, always safe, always clean. You don't have to worry about gross things. Like mice! And creepy things like that."

"Says another 20-something resident of luxury housing, "It sometimes feels like I'm not in New York when I'm in the building... It's trying to have things that a suburban housing complex would--everything at your fingertips, where you don't have to leave [the building] much if you don't want. But it's not big enough. It's not big enough to do that. It needs a swimming pool."

@Anony 9.03 PM Sigh If you had gone to the Vanishing NY link that I posted, you would have seen that my copy and pastes were Jeremiah's take on what is going on in Manhattan in general. His article is not specific to Stuyvesant Town but pertains to a suburban/flyover state demo that is comfortable with inside amenities (and chain stores) that Rose Associates is promoting at their other properties. As we all know, this suburbanization process was started by Tishman Speyer and is continuing under the CW Capital/Rose reign with a vengeance. It is the basis for the concierge, the 4 Oval atrocities, the food trucks, the green market and the ice skating rink. It will be the BM for the vending machines as well. Like totally artisanal. Woo!

With the student inundation, food trucks, vending machines etc. Its become abundantly clear that the only hope for STPCV is for the tenants to take control. As distasteful as that may be for some, without it, CW, or any other corporate entity, will not stop until they've turned this place into a hot sheet hotel.

The tenants taking control wont solve any problems. It will only transfer the problems to the new owners, the 15% who buy in. This 15% is sure to get burnt. The fact is TS overpaid and because the law allowed them to walk those left behind are screwed. Period. Anyone who follows the TA over thf cliff here will regret that decision down the road. It is not as easy for individuals to walk away and absorb the loss as it is for a large corporation. The only possible solution would be government intervention to lower purchase price so another buyer could take control with government oversight to prevent gouging. Why anyone would trust the TA after they sat back and did nothing as TS and Rose/CW raped and pillaged the community is beyond comprehension.

"The tenants taking control wont solve any problems. It will only transfer the problems to the new owners, the 15% who buy in. This 15% is sure to get burnt. The fact is TS overpaid and because the law allowed them to walk those left behind are screwed. Period. Anyone who follows the TA over the cliff here will regret that decision down the road. It is not as easy for individuals to walk away and absorb the loss as it is for a large corporation. The only possible solution would be government intervention to lower purchase price so another buyer could take control with government oversight to prevent gouging."

I completely agree with this and have been saying the same thing for a while now. Recently a poster on the TA blog made the statement that CW will want to sell because the company is "hemorrhaging" with its ownership of ST/PCV. If true, the natural conclusion is that the tenants who buy into a condo plan, together with Brookfield, will also be hemorrhaging. That 3.5 billion debt is a lot of weight on anyone's shoulder.

"Why anyone would trust the TA after they sat back and did nothing as TS and Rose/CW raped and pillaged the community is beyond comprehension."

I'm never quick to defend the TA, but this statement is just baseless. What happened to this community rests squarely on the shoulders of MetLife who found a willing sucker in Tishman. The degradation in the QOL of the community is due to the 5.4 billion dollar debt, and the financial pressure IT exerts on the operation. CW only represents the bondholders. They paid the money and they're the ones hemorrhaging the money. You can't blame them, even though none of us like the end result. I really don't know what you expect from a Tenants Association that has minimal support from the residents, both financially and in membership numbers. They don't have the resources to fight on every front. It's pretty amazing that they brought and won Roberts, and as you can see, the "big money" is doing everything in it's power to stall a resolution.

"The only possible solution would be government intervention to lower purchase price so another buyer could take control with government oversight to prevent gouging."

This is a perfect scenario all tenants would welcome, however it's likely to remain nothing more than an aspiration in a blog post. Meanwhile, the RE sharks are drawing up plans to subdivide, dorm-atize and conquer.

"The tenants taking control wont solve any problems. It will only transfer the problems to the new owners, the 15% who buy in. This 15% is sure to get burnt. The fact is TS overpaid and because the law allowed them to walk those left behind are screwed. Period. Anyone who follows the TA over the cliff here will regret that decision down the road. It is not as easy for individuals to walk away and absorb the loss as it is for a large corporation. The only possible solution would be government intervention to lower purchase price so another buyer could take control with government oversight to prevent gouging."

I completely agree with this and have been saying the same thing for a while now. Recently a poster on the TA blog made the statement that CW will want to sell because the company is "hemorrhaging" with its ownership of ST/PCV. If true, the natural conclusion is that the tenants who buy into a condo plan, together with Brookfield, will also be hemorrhaging. That 3.5 billion debt is a lot of weight on anyone's shoulder.

Is it possible that the tenant's situation could be, hmmmm, well, just somewhat different? Perhaps? Maybe?

"tenants who buy into a condo plan, together with Brookfield, will also be hemorrhaging. That 3.5 billion debt is a lot of weight on anyone's shoulder."

100% behind you, STR. I've been saying this all along. I have parsed this situation many ways, many times and I just keep coming to the conclusion that a second failure is at hand. The only question that remains in my mind is "whose hands?"

Getting back to that Stoler show, I have to disagree with Robert Scaglion that amenities are "crucial." Stoler himself introduced that discussion by mentioning the controversy over the importance of amenities to renters/buyers. In Stuy Town, the amenities are used by a small percentage of the tenants, and some amenities, as Oval Lounge and Oval Film, are ghost places when there is no planned event. Oval Lounge is a particular failure, as tenants just don't "hang out" over there.

Basically says that as long as you are tromping over puke, listening to rave parties until 3 a.m. and don't have functioning laundry facilities accessibility to an ice rink and package delivery are completely irrelevant.

And on the topic of Stoler...we'd all be better off with Lieber & Stoller: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Leiber_and_Mike_Stoller

It's pretty amazing that they brought and won Roberts, and as you can see, the "big money" is doing everything in it's power to stall a resolution.>>

Are you sure it was the TA that brought Roberts? I thought it was a group of MR tenants who were pissed off at being ripped off who brought this action independent of the TA. Correct me if I am wrong, please.

As far as I know, CW isn't hemorrhaging money. They're getting paid to service the debt. They have a fiduciary duty to the holders of the first mortgage, so their obligation is to get the best price they can and to bring in as much money as they can until they sell the property. If they sell it for too little, the first mortgage holders could take action against them.

I look forward to the vending machines. After the Tenants Association forced the Greenmarket off the property, it will be great to have easy access once again to one of life's basic necessities - food! Of course food for delivery is only a phone call away - but I don't want to be responsible for making the call that results in a souped-up motorized bicycle delivery person hitting one of my neighbors.

Are you sure it was the TA that brought Roberts? I thought it was a group of MR tenants who were pissed off at being ripped off who brought this action independent of the TA. Correct me if I am wrong, please.

The TA was instrumental in advancing the legal theory behind Roberts that was, ultimately, approved by the Court of Appeals and in getting the Roberts case organized and off the ground and into the legal system. The TA was not a party to the action because it did not have standing, i.e. the TA as an organization did not suffer a legal harm. The brilliance of the lawyering of Alex Schmidt and his associates in obtaining the Court of Appeals decision cannot be overstated. Consider yourself correcyed.

"As far as I know, CW isn't hemorrhaging money. They're getting paid to service the debt. They have a fiduciary duty to the holders of the first mortgage, so their obligation is to get the best price they can and to bring in as much money as they can until they sell the property. If they sell it for too little, the first mortgage holders could take action against them."

The property is losing money on balance. Ascribe that loss to anyone you like! Negative cash flow is negative cash flow.

The bond holders are going to have the final say as to any deal. You really think that CW is going to make a decision on their behalf and suffer the consequences? You belong on that other site...

"I look forward to the vending machines. After the Tenants Association forced the Greenmarket off the property, it will be great to have easy access once again to one of life's basic necessities - food!"

I'm looking forward to the day they put oxygen tanks in the lobbies. It will be great to have easy access to air and not have to breath on my own. Life's basic necessities - air!

>>Can our gardner bring the fence forward where it used to be ? (Green market area) and plant some grass.It has become a dog poop & piss area. A real eye sore!<<

I agree and have been noting in the past about the horrid look of that area, which truthfully has a slum-like appearance. My guess is that the Green Market will be back there, however, which is why nothing is being done.

"Can our gardner bring the fence forward where it used to be ? (Green market area) and plant some grass.It has become a dog poop & piss area. A real eye sore!"

This is an issue that I have brought up in the past. No one else appears to think it's an issue though. Many are arguing to maintain the greenmarket, but no one seems to mind that the area where the food is sold is literally a fecal dump. Just sit on one of the benches opposite for no more than 15 minutes and see for yourself if you don't believe it. For the record, I like the greenmarket and would like it to stay if the obvious health hazard could be addressed. Until then, I'll be going to Union Square.

Are you sure it was the TA that brought Roberts? I thought it was a group of MR tenants who were pissed off at being ripped off who brought this action independent of the TA. Correct me if I am wrong, please.

"...some members of the tenants association, by Mr. Grunstein’s telling, wanted to revisit the concerns their attorney had raised in the bidding process, as they were worried the high sales price would lead to rapid deregulation of apartments.

“We had a meting, and they said, ‘Can you do something about it?’ And, I said, ‘There’s this claim, let’s see if we can get some plaintiffs,’” he said..."

>>Can our gardner bring the fence forward where it used to be ? (Green market area) and plant some grass.It has become a dog poop & piss area. A real eye sore!<<

I agree and have been noting in the past about the horrid look of that area, which truthfully has a slum-like appearance. My guess is that the Green Market will be back there, however, which is why nothing is being done.

If they try to re-install the Greenmarket in its original, illegal location, Management & CW Capital are gonna have a fight on their hands. ALL ILLEGAL COMMERCIALIZATION OF THE OVAL WILL BE FOUGHT BY CONCERNED TENANTS.

"If they try to re-install the Greenmarket in its original, illegal location, Management & CW Capital are gonna have a fight on their hands. ALL ILLEGAL COMMERCIALIZATION OF THE OVAL WILL BE FOUGHT BY CONCERNED TENANTS."

I here you and I don't disagree. The fact that I like the greenmarket is irrelevant if its existence in its present location is a violation of zoning laws. Honestly though, I'm more concerned over the fact that the greenmarket food is being sold out of a dog toilet than the issue of zoning.

"Brilliant. It is something called "winter" here....or did you miss that on your way to forgetville?"

Interesting how winter only seems to affect the entire property with the exception of the area around the ice rink. I didn't post the comment regarding the property being drearier and deader than ever but it's 100% accurate. Winter notwithstanding, there is no reason (other than the obvious one of it being a defaulted and neglected property) for it to look like this. Sometimes these "brilliant" posts need to be responded to.

It's not called winter. There's no grass. There's nothing. I'm not old and I didn't forget anything. I remember when it was beautiful here, even in the winter. And it looks worse than ever now. I don't usually answer ignorant wiseguys but I'll make this exception. I probably pay way less rent than you, too! :)

" I don't usually answer ignorant wiseguys but I'll make this exception. I probably pay way less rent than you, too! :)"

LOL! That's the best come-back ever! The only thing that consoles me now that the property has gone to hell is that I know I am paying way, way, way less rent than all the students and other relative newcomers. Thank you for subsidizing my rent and keeping the lights on, guys! We lost a lovely, well kept oasis of green and tranquility when it became an ugly, scruffy dorm/slum, but we are not paying anything like you are to live in it! That is something of a comfort.

"Brilliant. It is something called "winter" here....or did you miss that on your way to forgetville?"

"Winter" doesn't happen on one side of the fence. Why hasn't "winter" effected the Oval Lawn 1 inch away???

Anyone with a brain can see they stopped seeding and maintaining the dog toilet so the Greenmarket can stage a comeback. The Greenmarket farmers should he honored to be invited to sell their food on ground soaked with feces and urine. MMMM!

Hall of Shame Award to CWCapital from Stuy Town And Peter Cooper Village Tenants

Awarded for the Roberts Settlement Massacre, in which many tenants received mid-lease rent increases from hundreds to over a thousand dollars, compelling tenants to examine the need to move out with their families at short notice. Doubly awarded for the Oval Park Massacre, in which healthy trees were cut down and plantings viciously uprooted to make way for an institutionalized look of order.

Thinking of Renting in PCVST?

Read Yelp reviews to find out what it's like living here.

Banned Dog Breeds in Stuy Town

Cute rottweiler. But... looks like there is some difficulty in enforcing the ban on certain dog breeds allowed inside Stuy Town/Peter Cooper Village. Somehow pitbulls and pitbull mixes have been registered in STPCV and are allowed to be freely walked about the grounds! Another fail of enforcing the rules around here? You decide!

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Stuyvesant Town Newsreel

Read it and Weep

Current Value of ST/PCV

Was 5.4 Billion Dollars when Tishman Speyer bought the place.Became 1.7 Billion Dollars when Tishman Speyer left, with their tail between their legs.Current estimate? Over 2 Billion?

Ex-landlord

Rob Speyer

1947 Stuy Town Plaque Honoring Met Life Chairman F.H. Ecker (Removed in 2002 and never seen again)

"... who with the vision of experience and the energy of youth conceived and brought into being this project, and others like it, that families of moderate means might live in health, comfort and dignity in park-like communities and that a pattern might be set of private enterprise productively devoted to public service."

Co-op/Condo Conversions

Non-Eviction Conversion:
Requires commitment from purchasers for 15% of the apartments. Both rent regulated and market rate tenants are given the opportunity to purchase. Rent regulated tenants cannot be evicted because they choose not to buy. However, the owner is not required to offer a lease renewal to market-rate tenants.
Eviction Conversion:
Requires written commitment from 51% of the tenants in occupancy. All tenants are given the opportunity to purchase. Those who choose not to can be evicted. For rent stabilized tenants who choose not to purchase, they can be evicted within 3 years after the plan is declared effective. However, rent stabilized tenants who are disabled or senior citizens are exempt from eviction. Market rate tenants can be evicted at the end of their lease. Less likely conversion tactic. [The TA insists that any plan they support will be non-eviction.]

I am writing on behalf of everyone at Tishman Speyer to express how honored we are to become part of your outstanding community. We are a business with deep roots in New York, a true love of our city and a great respect for the neighborhoods that make it special. We are committed to maintaining the unique character and environment that have made Peter Cooper Village and Stuyvesant Town such a wonderful place to live for so long. We look forward to providing you an extraordinary level of service and attentiveness that will be the source of pride and satisfaction for the entire community.

Neighborhood Recommendations

New to Stuy Town/Peter Cooper Village? Here are some basic recommendations.

Best supermarket: Associated on 14th St. between 1st Ave. and Ave A. The cheapest prices, fantastic weekly sales, very affordable lunches; solid, responsive management. Some of the young female cashiers have attitude to spare, though. May be too far for Peter Cooper residents.

Best deli: A Stuy Town favorite is Lenz's on 20 St. between the 20 St. Loop. The way New York used to be. Be careful of unwanted "pepper" in your food, however. Lenz's has a B grade rating and was temporarily closed down due to an order from the Health Department. Bruno's on First Avenue is more upscale, with a greater selection of food items (higher-priced, too), but was closed down by the Health Department in June.

Best post office: Forget it! The post office on 14th St. is generally a nightmare, with long lines and, now, even shorter hours.

Disappointments:

The Stuy Town Starbucks on First Ave. is not very cozy, and the music in the morning is too loud and uptempo. Gently awaken the souls off to work....

More recommendations to come!

Macular Degeneration Support Group

If you are currently diagnosed with Macular Degeneration, the New York Eye & Ear Infirmary is offering a support group for you. Conveniently located next to the Peter Cooper Village Stuyvesant Town apartment complex, our group offers the opportunity to share stories with other members, listen to expert guest speakers, and learn coping strategies to reduce stress. Our group runs on the first Wednesday of every month and we would enjoy seeing you there.
Please contact Baptiste Nicolas, Social Work Assistant at 212-979-4105 for further information and to see if this group is right for you!