In theory, if there is enough people online there shouldn't be 4 sitting in a lobby without others joining.

_______________________________WHO WAN'S THIS DAWG!?

Once bitten, twice.....zombieThe rset can be a toatl mses and you can slitl raed it whotiut pleborm. Tihs is bseacue the huamn mnid deos not raed eevry lteter by ilsetf, but the wrod as a wlohe.-END TRANSMISSION-

Black_OpCorporal

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Subject: Re: !autostart Thu 2 Jun - 2:32

That's a pretty bad theory lol. As fast as the bot tries to go, people have to join every 15 to 20 seconds. Unfortunately that's not the case. Most of the time you'll wait a few minutes, and several will join within another minute.

vV_OLieutenant Colonel

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Subject: Re: !autostart Thu 2 Jun - 2:36

Everyone but you seems to be fine with AS being at 4, why are you so against it?

I would like to know how it effects you so terribly.

_______________________________WHO WAN'S THIS DAWG!?

Once bitten, twice.....zombieThe rset can be a toatl mses and you can slitl raed it whotiut pleborm. Tihs is bseacue the huamn mnid deos not raed eevry lteter by ilsetf, but the wrod as a wlohe.-END TRANSMISSION-

patiodadyo19Corporal

Messages : 103Activity Points : 2885Reputation : 1

Subject: Re: !autostart Thu 2 Jun - 3:47

Black_Op wrote:

That's a pretty bad theory lol. As fast as the bot tries to go, people have to join every 15 to 20 seconds. Unfortunately that's not the case. Most of the time you'll wait a few minutes, and several will join within another minute.

i think what hes saying(i could be completely wrong) this that your assuming that just because 4 people are in the lobby more could join, is a bad idea. Sometimes, well most of the time, all you get is four people then the game goes without more joining. but if the game waited a couple more seconds then more could of joined.

Last edited by patiodadyo19 on Thu 2 Jun - 3:47; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling mistakes)

wizzitjeCaptain

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Subject: Re: !autostart Thu 2 Jun - 13:09

patiodadyo19 wrote:

Black_Op wrote:

That's a pretty bad theory lol. As fast as the bot tries to go, people have to join every 15 to 20 seconds. Unfortunately that's not the case. Most of the time you'll wait a few minutes, and several will join within another minute.

i think what hes saying(i could be completely wrong) this that your assuming that just because 4 people are in the lobby more could join, is a bad idea. Sometimes, well most of the time, all you get is four people then the game goes without more joining. but if the game waited a couple more seconds then more could of joined.

the game waits around 5-10 seconds for pings, then it has an autostart of 10 seconds meaning you have around 15-20 seconds for some1 to join, and then starting that timer all over again....

_______________________________

Black_OpCorporal

Messages : 118Activity Points : 3012Reputation : 2

Subject: Re: !autostart Thu 2 Jun - 20:06

wizzitje wrote:

the game waits around 5-10 seconds for pings, then it has an autostart of 10 seconds meaning you have around 15-20 seconds for some1 to join, and then starting that timer all over again....

That's exactly what I said...15-20 seconds. You took Patio a little too literally there though; obviously a couple seconds rarely matters. The point he was making is it isn't enough.

Anyways, if your familiar with people joining WC3 custom games, there's a certain flow to it. People don't just join every 15 to 20 seconds (in a perfect world they perhaps would). Often you'll wait a couple minutes, then several will join within the next minute. I'm not sure if this has something to do with how games refresh or not, but that's just how it most often works.

Your welcome to go and observe how it works as an admin. Whenever you play UA2 with D3f/Ryko, they only wait another 3-5 minutes (if that), before there's more than enough people for a good game.

Better yet, try getting a good game going WITHOUT being an admin. Trust me, it's extremely fun joining/rejoining every 15-20 seconds. Go give it a shot and tell me the 15-20 seconds is enough

wizzitjeCaptain

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Subject: Re: !autostart Thu 2 Jun - 20:35

Black_Op wrote:

Anyways, if your familiar with people joining WC3 custom games, there's a certain flow to it. People don't just join every 15 to 20 seconds (in a perfect world they perhaps would). Often you'll wait a couple minutes, then several will join within the next minute. I'm not sure if this has something to do with how games refresh or not, but that's just how it most often works.

it has to do with the lists, the games list refreshes +- every 10 seconds, (unless you click the refresh button) and the fact that the game isn't always on the list as well (the lists has its ''limits''

_______________________________

NovaStaff Sergeant

Messages : 365Activity Points : 3229Reputation : 5

Subject: Re: !autostart Fri 3 Jun - 2:36

All bots need a "votestart" command working similar to votekick, then there will be no complaints and you can have autostart @ 10 ppl without fear of people complaining.

And just make announcement "type votestart if you wish to start the game now"

Black_OpCorporal

Messages : 118Activity Points : 3012Reputation : 2

Subject: Re: !autostart Fri 3 Jun - 2:49

wizzitje wrote:

it has to do with the lists, the games list refreshes +- every 10 seconds, (unless you click the refresh button) and the fact that the game isn't always on the list as well (the lists has its ''limits''

Ah, I knew it was something along those lines. That's not the point though; the point is people join in "groups" every couple minutes. Not every 15-20 seconds.

Nova wrote:

All bots need a "votestart" command working similar to votekick, then there will be no complaints and you can have autostart @ 10 ppl without fear of people complaining.

And just make announcement "type votestart if you wish to start the game now"

Another great suggestion.

Seriously though. There's been several very well intentioned and very plausible ideas brought forward to improve the bot. None of them have been actually addressed by any admins. If any of the ideas are obviously flawed, please point out the flaws. Otherwise please at least discuss the ideas amongst yourselves in the admin sub-forum.

NovaStaff Sergeant

Messages : 365Activity Points : 3229Reputation : 5

Subject: Re: !autostart Fri 3 Jun - 4:35

My suggestion probably requires improving the code of the bot, which is probably something only me or pach can do. Remember the bots have their built-in flaws, and their source code may not always be available.

Black_OpCorporal

Messages : 118Activity Points : 3012Reputation : 2

Subject: Re: !autostart Fri 3 Jun - 4:42

That's a reasonable thing to point out, thank you. I would rather hear something like that then someone avoiding the discussion entirely.

Perhaps JK2pach could jump in and elaborate now (is the source code available)? If so, shouldn't it only be a matter of adding another method/function? Seems simple enough. A fair amount of the code could be a copy and paste from other functions/methods too (i.e. votekick/auto start).

NamoraxLieutenant Colonel

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Subject: Re: !autostart Fri 3 Jun - 5:24

Coding: Its one thoing to say "It has to be done"... there always needs to be someone who actually does it^^

But I dont see how a Votestart is going to work. If 3 want to start, and 1 doesnt, he just has to leave and rejoin the in order to force the others to wait.

Still doing the above... But the last time I checked this site was gone... what happened?

Black_OpCorporal

Messages : 118Activity Points : 3012Reputation : 2

Subject: Re: !autostart Fri 3 Jun - 5:58

Depends what language it's in, but considering it's mostly combining the votekick and auto start functions/methods, it really should be a simple thing to do if you have the source code. You shouldn't even need any knowledge of the language the bots programmed in. I'd be more then happy to do it.

How is that a problem Namorax? That very same thing could be said about how the bot currently starts. Anyone could delay the bot indefinitely either way.

A more serious issue though is if several people decided they wanted to chill in the lobby and not vote at all. Since you would need a majority vote to go, they could technically stop the bot by just sitting there.

There are solutions around this problem too though if thought is put into it. Although, this gave me an improved idea.

=======Perhaps a vote start isn't best. A more rational thing would be a "auto start increase", not sure how to phrase it. The same aspect as a vote kick; one person does !increaseAuto 6(for example), other people can vote whether or not it increases the auto start to 6. If not, it remains at the usual 4.

This could have the same basic requirements as a vote start(everyone but 1 person), with a minimum of 3-4 people in-game.

This seems much more reasonable, and no more abuseable then votekick/how the bot starts already. Any suggestions/questions/objections?

There are plenty of pros and cons to giving non-admin players access to adjusting the bots original job.In the end, Pach has decided that players will not be given these rights.

^ This is fact until Pach, himself, decides otherwise and/or updates his opinion.

PS: Why not just make friends and join a game with them instead of hoping people will be there? The internet is a very large community.

_______________________________WHO WAN'S THIS DAWG!?

Once bitten, twice.....zombieThe rset can be a toatl mses and you can slitl raed it whotiut pleborm. Tihs is bseacue the huamn mnid deos not raed eevry lteter by ilsetf, but the wrod as a wlohe.-END TRANSMISSION-

kallsoppLance Corporal

Messages : 71Activity Points : 2937Reputation : 2

Subject: Re: !autostart Fri 3 Jun - 19:12

@Black_OpsNot saying anything about how smart you are, or how good you are with computers. But if it is so simple, and you seem like you know what your talking about, what dont you just save them all the trouble and present it yourself?------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Now i agree with vV_0 its just wc3, dont worry too much about it. But on the other hand, if we improve wc3 maybe more people will come back. (doubt it, but its worth a shot.) But dont take anything you see from me, cause i dont know if this even makes sense honestly...

There are plenty of pros and cons to giving non-admin players access to adjusting the bots original job.In the end, Pach has decided that players will not be given these rights.

^ This is fact until Pach, himself, decides otherwise and/or updates his opinion.

PS: Why not just make friends and join a game with them instead of hoping people will be there? The internet is a very large community.

I suppose, but most of my list is filled with people who don't play UA2 much. Also, i'm probably just doing this out of boredom. It isn't that huge of an issue, but it's something to discuss anyways .

I do think that's a rather pessimistic attitude towards things though, "It's just ____, why worry about it?" There's nothing wrong with improving something. I assumed a decent amount of people on this forum were actually interested in creating/improving things. Also, the bot being set at 4 was never the problem; getting the bot to stop being 'start happy' when more people are online was.

kallsopp wrote:

@Black_OpsNot saying anything about how smart you are, or how good you are with computers. But if it is so simple, and you seem like you know what your talking about, what dont you just save them all the trouble and present it yourself?

As I said in my last post, I would be happy to do it. You can't just whip out a method/function with no knowledge of what the bot is even programmed in though, or if they don't have the source code to recompile it. It would also be extremely pointless to do from scratch when you could copy and paste code from two functions/methods in the source code already and accomplish what you want to do. Never rewrite code that's readily available.

Either way, i'm done I suppose. This has definitely gotten off topic, sorry.

vV_OLieutenant Colonel

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Subject: Re: !autostart Sat 4 Jun - 4:42

lmao so this is 'out of boredom'?

Very bright and responsible, Monkeh Jr.

_________________________________

Topic moved.

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Once bitten, twice.....zombieThe rset can be a toatl mses and you can slitl raed it whotiut pleborm. Tihs is bseacue the huamn mnid deos not raed eevry lteter by ilsetf, but the wrod as a wlohe.-END TRANSMISSION-

Black_OpCorporal

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Subject: Re: !autostart Sat 4 Jun - 5:32

I enjoy problem solving/programming. So yes, I do this sort of stuff when i'm bored lol.

jk2pachLieutenant General

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Subject: Re: !autostart Sat 4 Jun - 11:51

Autostart will remain at 4 per default. And any modification of the bot sourcecode is impossible: I rent the bots, it's not on a server I would have paid myself.

_______________________________

BrickwallLance Corporal

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Subject: Re: !autostart Sun 5 Jun - 2:18

Going to put in my vote as undecided. In the odd hours when there are very few players around more than 4 players would be really hard to get started.

wizzitje wrote:

then it has an autostart of 10 seconds

Without having clocked it I am going to claim that you are very wrong. It is a count down from 10. Not a count down of 10 seconds. Takes maybe 3 or at most 5 seconds is my guess. This is only if I understand you correctly and we are talking about the same thing.