pneuma

That speaks more to me about judging where the fruit comes from, whether the Spirit or the flesh, not the judgment of the individual

It says:

Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

It refers knowing the person BY their fruits that they produce, not where they gathered it from. It even goes further and explains this with these verses:

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

These are those people that had evil fruits. It doesnt' speak to where they gathered them from. It is speaking to what they do.

Paul

I disagree with that understanding Paul, knowing the PERSON by their fruit is knowing which person the fruit comes from, whether Christ or Adam.

After all the people in reference in those scriptures are ALL CHRISTIANS who worked after the works of the flesh.

pneuma

Not saying you don't have any vision into Gods word Paul, just showing you that we are to JUDGE the FRUIT not the individual.

For every child of God is still in part a child of Adam and produces the fruit of Adam.

Pneuma, the individual will be known by the fruit. Adam produced the fruit of Satan which means he produced the works of Satan which is sin. So I disagree that every child of god is still producing that fruit.

Paul

Paul anyone who says they are without sin decieve themselves and the truth is not in them.

Just because Adam sinned, does not mean he's not capable of manifesting God in others . . .did he not love his wife? Did he not love his kids?

You say I should take this up with Christ because he's the one that said it . . .you seem to think that your interpretation is the only one that is right . . . if I felt you were right, I wouldn't have pressed the issue . . .obviously it's your interpretation of what Christ intended that I have issue with. I'm about done anyway because in reading your responses to others, not to mention myself, you're not as open to receive as you are to give and I don't want to get pulled into yet another long discussion that leads to no where.

You continue to ignore the fact with those Scriptures you keep quoting, that it's not about judging everyone's fruit . . .it's about being alert what kind of fruit you receive yourself.

As to the beam in the eye of the one judging . . .you missed the entire point there as well . . .you seem to think that it's saying go ahead and judge . . .sheesh . . .

What he's saying is what WE'VE been saying all along . . .the beam in your own eye . . .he's saying take care of what's on your own plate . .worry about your own relationship . . .deal with your own issues . . . once you remove the beam in your eye . . .the spec in the eye of another WON'T MATTER ANYMORE because the problem isn't the person I'm judging . . .the problem is ME playing the role of a judge in the first place.

For me, it's the Holy Spirit that has that role in my life and in others . . .and to cross that line and assume the role of a judge to others is blaspheme of the Holy Spirit . . .yeah I know . .tough words . .but seriously . . .to blaspheme . .for me again . . .is to assume the authority of another . . .Jesus was crucified because he said he was the Son of God . . .and they cried "Blaspheme". But as we know . .he was telling the truth . . . but the point is . . .we claim the spirit is working in us . .then we assume authority in areas that we have no authority in and we create more problems than solutions.

Love your brother . . .leave the judging to the only one worthy to operate righteously in that role without becoming an obstacle to others.

23Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

--Mat 23

23You Pharisees and teachers are show-offs, and you're in for trouble! You give God a tenth of the spices from your garden, such as mint, dill, and cumin. Yet you neglect the more important matters of the Law, such as justice, mercy, and faithfulness. These are the important things you should have done, though you should not have left the others undone either. 24You blind leaders! You strain out a small fly but swallow a camel.

That speaks more to me about judging where the fruit comes from, whether the Spirit or the flesh, not the judgment of the individual

It says:

Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

It refers knowing the person BY their fruits that they produce, not where they gathered it from. It even goes further and explains this with these verses:

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

These are those people that had evil fruits. It doesnt' speak to where they gathered them from. It is speaking to what they do.

Paul

I disagree with that understanding Paul, knowing the PERSON by their fruit is knowing which person the fruit comes from, whether Christ or Adam.

After all the people in reference in those scriptures are ALL CHRISTIANS who worked after the works of the flesh.

Sure knowing their fruit is knowing where the fruit comes from but answering to THOSE Scriptures it specifically says "you know them by their fruits". I doesn't say you them by where they got their fruits. I'm keeping it according to God's Word but I showed you the scriptures. Does it or does it not say "You know them by their fruits"?

That speaks more to me about judging where the fruit comes from, whether the Spirit or the flesh, not the judgment of the individual

It says:

Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

It refers knowing the person BY their fruits that they produce, not where they gathered it from. It even goes further and explains this with these verses:

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

These are those people that had evil fruits. It doesnt' speak to where they gathered them from. It is speaking to what they do.

Paul

I disagree with that understanding Paul, knowing the PERSON by their fruit is knowing which person the fruit comes from, whether Christ or Adam.

After all the people in reference in those scriptures are ALL CHRISTIANS who worked after the works of the flesh.

Sure knowing their fruit is knowing where the fruit comes from but answering to THOSE Scriptures it specifically says "you know them by their fruits". I doesn't say you them by where they got their fruits. I'm keeping it according to God's Word but I showed you the scriptures. Does it or does it not say "You know them by their fruits"?

Paul

yes their fruits, Christ and Adam when you put more then one person into an equation their is the proper format of speaking.

So are the people being spoken of in those verse Christian baring flesh fruit or not?

23Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

--Mat 23

23You Pharisees and teachers are show-offs, and you're in for trouble! You give God a tenth of the spices from your garden, such as mint, dill, and cumin. Yet you neglect the more important matters of the Law, such as justice, mercy, and faithfulness. These are the important things you should have done, though you should not have left the others undone either. 24You blind leaders! You strain out a small fly but swallow a camel.

Yes Molly Judgment is a Part of who we are - But after TRUE judgment, not the Judgment of Condemnation.

As the Servant who owed was shown mercy and Compassion , then to whom it was Given, tis Forwarded...Judge No man by appearence( Doing),

Logged

Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

trettep

Just because Adam sinned, does not mean he's not capable of manifesting God in others . . .did he not love his wife? Did he not love his kids?

You say I should take this up with Christ because he's the one that said it . . .you seem to think that your interpretation is the only one that is right . . . if I felt you were right, I wouldn't have pressed the issue . . .obviously it's your interpretation of what Christ intended that I have issue with. I'm about done anyway because in reading your responses to others, not to mention myself, you're not as open to receive as you are to give and I don't want to get pulled into yet another long discussion that leads to no where.

You continue to ignore the fact with those Scriptures you keep quoting, that it's not about judging everyone's fruit . . .it's about being alert what kind of fruit you receive yourself.

As to the beam in the eye of the one judging . . .you missed the entire point there as well . . .you seem to think that it's saying go ahead and judge . . .sheesh . . .

What he's saying is what WE'VE been saying all along . . .the beam in your own eye . . .he's saying take care of what's on your own plate . .worry about your own relationship . . .deal with your own issues . . . once you remove the beam in your eye . . .the spec in the eye of another WON'T MATTER ANYMORE because the problem isn't the person I'm judging . . .the problem is ME playing the role of a judge in the first place.

For me, it's the Holy Spirit that has that role in my life and in others . . .and to cross that line and assume the role of a judge to others is blaspheme of the Holy Spirit . . .yeah I know . .tough words . .but seriously . . .to blaspheme . .for me again . . .is to assume the authority of another . . .Jesus was crucified because he said he was the Son of God . . .and they cried "Blaspheme". But as we know . .he was telling the truth . . . but the point is . . .we claim the spirit is working in us . .then we assume authority in areas that we have no authority in and we create more problems than solutions.

Love your brother . . .leave the judging to the only one worthy to operate righteously in that role without becoming an obstacle to others.

Nathan, are you saying there is reward in loving those that love you? Nathan, did you not question me when I said that God's word says to Judge Righteously? So what offence do you have? Is that in error? I'm I saying judge unrighteously? Why is your spirit contentious about this if you agree that the Word of God says to Judge Righteously?

That speaks more to me about judging where the fruit comes from, whether the Spirit or the flesh, not the judgment of the individual

It says:

Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

It refers knowing the person BY their fruits that they produce, not where they gathered it from. It even goes further and explains this with these verses:

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

These are those people that had evil fruits. It doesnt' speak to where they gathered them from. It is speaking to what they do.

Paul

I disagree with that understanding Paul, knowing the PERSON by their fruit is knowing which person the fruit comes from, whether Christ or Adam.

After all the people in reference in those scriptures are ALL CHRISTIANS who worked after the works of the flesh.

Sure knowing their fruit is knowing where the fruit comes from but answering to THOSE Scriptures it specifically says "you know them by their fruits". I doesn't say you them by where they got their fruits. I'm keeping it according to God's Word but I showed you the scriptures. Does it or does it not say "You know them by their fruits"?

Paul

yes their fruits, Christ and Adam when you put more then one person into an equation their is the proper format of speaking.

So are the people being spoken of in those verse Christian baring flesh fruit or not?

The verses pertain to the fruits of all men but Christ is speaking to His disciples.

Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

There are the verses again. Please be more specific to your question as I don't see where it is applicable.

pneuma

Just because Adam sinned, does not mean he's not capable of manifesting God in others . . .did he not love his wife? Did he not love his kids?

You say I should take this up with Christ because he's the one that said it . . .you seem to think that your interpretation is the only one that is right . . . if I felt you were right, I wouldn't have pressed the issue . . .obviously it's your interpretation of what Christ intended that I have issue with. I'm about done anyway because in reading your responses to others, not to mention myself, you're not as open to receive as you are to give and I don't want to get pulled into yet another long discussion that leads to no where.

You continue to ignore the fact with those Scriptures you keep quoting, that it's not about judging everyone's fruit . . .it's about being alert what kind of fruit you receive yourself.

As to the beam in the eye of the one judging . . .you missed the entire point there as well . . .you seem to think that it's saying go ahead and judge . . .sheesh . . .

What he's saying is what WE'VE been saying all along . . .the beam in your own eye . . .he's saying take care of what's on your own plate . .worry about your own relationship . . .deal with your own issues . . . once you remove the beam in your eye . . .the spec in the eye of another WON'T MATTER ANYMORE because the problem isn't the person I'm judging . . .the problem is ME playing the role of a judge in the first place.

For me, it's the Holy Spirit that has that role in my life and in others . . .and to cross that line and assume the role of a judge to others is blaspheme of the Holy Spirit . . .yeah I know . .tough words . .but seriously . . .to blaspheme . .for me again . . .is to assume the authority of another . . .Jesus was crucified because he said he was the Son of God . . .and they cried "Blaspheme". But as we know . .he was telling the truth . . . but the point is . . .we claim the spirit is working in us . .then we assume authority in areas that we have no authority in and we create more problems than solutions.

Love your brother . . .leave the judging to the only one worthy to operate righteously in that role without becoming an obstacle to others.

Nathan, are you saying there is reward in loving those that love you? Nathan, did you not question me when I said that God's word says to Judge Righteously? So what offence do you have? Is that in error? I'm I saying judge unrighteously? Why is your spirit contentious about this if you agree that the Word of God says to Judge Righteously?

Paul

Well enough of this, I just finished this same conversation with Paul C and have no desire to go through it all again so I am out of this thread as it has turned from what may have been profitable into something unprofitable.

Paul anyone who says they are without sin decieve themselves and the truth is not in them.

Do you Judge Paul as not being a child of God in Ro.7?

Paul was not being imputed his sin.

Paul

I agree, so why judge another whos sin is not imputed unto them?

We have no need to for those. But not everyone abides in the Grace that Paul has. Did not Paul judge Peter when Peter changed tables? Paul was righteous that he was a Jew and he didn't commit the act. Peter was committing a sin so Paul rebuked Peter and judged him as having committed a sin by doing so (hence the rebuke). No was it a bad thing that Paul did? - no.

Paul

Logged

trettep

23Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

--Mat 23

23You Pharisees and teachers are show-offs, and you're in for trouble! You give God a tenth of the spices from your garden, such as mint, dill, and cumin. Yet you neglect the more important matters of the Law, such as justice, mercy, and faithfulness. These are the important things you should have done, though you should not have left the others undone either. 24You blind leaders! You strain out a small fly but swallow a camel.

Yes Molly Judgment is a Part of who we are - But after TRUE judgment, not the Judgment of Condemnation.

As the Servant who owed was shown mercy and Compassion , then to whom it was Given, tis Forwarded...Judge No man by appearence( Doing),

Where is it say in the scriptures to judge no man by their doing? I'm curious how Judgment is done if it isn't based on works.

trettep

Well enough of this, I just finished this same conversation with Paul C and have no desire to go through it all again so I am out of this thread as it has turned from what may have been profitable into something unprofitable.

Well pneuma, I hope it isn't something I said or the responses you have received from me but if it was then forgive me for not being clear or coming across in a manner that you disapprove for it surely isn't my intent. Much of the contention started when I said that the scriptures tell us to Judge Righteously. That struck a nerve with many. However, I believe the nerve to be the perception that I give off as if I come across as always being right. So if that be the case then please let me know.

Paul anyone who says they are without sin decieve themselves and the truth is not in them.

Do you Judge Paul as not being a child of God in Ro.7?

Paul was not being imputed his sin.

Paul

I agree, so why judge another whos sin is not imputed unto them?

We have no need to for those. But not everyone abides in the Grace that Paul has. Did not Paul judge Peter when Peter changed tables? Paul was righteous that he was a Jew and he didn't commit the act. Peter was committing a sin so Paul rebuked Peter and judged him as having committed a sin by doing so (hence the rebuke). No was it a bad thing that Paul did? - no.

Paul

My face is starting to turn blue . . .so I'm out after this as well . . .

Your take on what happened with Paul and Peter is a perfect example of what I feel is misuse of Scripture . .number one . . .they didn't have 2,000 years of church history from which to grow and learn by the mistakes of others from . . .we do.

Second, they weren't just two brothers at odds . . . they were two APOSTLES . . .which is yet another bone I will reference to but not go into any further than this . . . And that is this . . .there are two LEADERS OF THE ENTIRE MOVEMENT that were in the process of establishing the flow of life . . .and as such, Paul had the authority to approach Peter . . .but I am not an apostle speaking to another . . . most of us are just lay-people assuming we can go by the same rules as an Apostle.

None of your responses hold water for me. I beleive there is much more to be had by pursuing Christ . .and CHOOSING to see the light in others rather than point out the darkness in them. In this light, I now lay down any further discussions with you on this.

Paul anyone who says they are without sin decieve themselves and the truth is not in them.

Do you Judge Paul as not being a child of God in Ro.7?

Paul was not being imputed his sin.

Paul

I agree, so why judge another whos sin is not imputed unto them?

We have no need to for those. But not everyone abides in the Grace that Paul has. Did not Paul judge Peter when Peter changed tables? Paul was righteous that he was a Jew and he didn't commit the act. Peter was committing a sin so Paul rebuked Peter and judged him as having committed a sin by doing so (hence the rebuke). No was it a bad thing that Paul did? - no.

Paul

My face is starting to turn blue . . .so I'm out after this as well . . .

Your take on what happened with Paul and Peter is a perfect example of what I feel is misuse of Scripture . .number one . . .they didn't have 2,000 years of church history from which to grow and learn by the mistakes of others from . . .we do.

Second, they weren't just two brothers at odds . . . they were two APOSTLES . . .which is yet another bone I will reference to but not go into any further than this . . . And that is this . . .there are two LEADERS OF THE ENTIRE MOVEMENT that were in the process of establishing the flow of life . . .and as such, Paul had the authority to approach Peter . . .but I am not an apostle speaking to another . . . most of us are just lay-people assuming we can go by the same rules as an Apostle.

None of your responses hold water for me. I beleive there is much more to be had by pursuing Christ . .and CHOOSING to see the light in others rather than point out the darkness in them. In this light, I now lay down any further discussions with you on this.

Blessings to you all.

Nathan, I'll take your words that your done with me. I'll try to avoid responding to you in the future as much as memory can serve me. I assume you believe I'm wasting your time with my words.

Paul no one here would agrue that point, but surely your not saying you have no speak of dust in your own eyes?

Absolutely, I got "dust" in my own eyes. But that doesn't mean I haven't been given "vision" into certain aspects of God's Word.

Paul

Judge Not according to the Flesh , For Flesh is Unworthy of Flesh Judging it.

For Christ came NOT to Judge the Flesh , but to exercise True\Righteous judgment , mercy and compassion to EACH man his brother...

For each man to DIE FIRST, then JUDGMENT....

no Dust dust in these eyes Guys , for we are Spirit , For the righteous man have NO need of man Judging HIM,as long as he judges Himself worthy of being in the Body.

does not JUDGMENT,that is MERCY and Compassion first come to the HOUSE of GOD., which for me, is the Foundatain of The Cross.

Hbr 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Hbr 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Hbr 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Co 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

Paul

maybe you missed WORTHY of the BODY

For the FLESH to be Handed to SATAN so the SPIRIT maybe saved?

He who Judges Himself being WORTHY OF the BODY,....but Man brings on this HIMSELF..for this reason MANY sleep,..which really has noting to do with GIVING unto others Mercy and compassion shown to us... for we Forgive .....

1Cr 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink [this] cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

1Cr 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of [that] bread, and drink of [that] cup.

1Cr 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 1Cr 11:30 For this cause many [are] weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

1Cr 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

1Cr 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Logged

Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.