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Re: New Smoking Ban Good or Bad?

Originally Posted by Kal'Stang

Cars and factories spew out far more toxic crap into the air than smokers do. I don't hear you ranting against them wanting them illegal. Oh wait...cars are more useful huh? Who gives a crap? They're both legal and as such its bull crap to ban them in the open air.

Government regulates them, as they should. I support STRONGER emissions controls... so, you can't get me there...
And it is NOT bull crap to regulate them in public spaces. Government has LONG assumed that right and responsibility, and this has a LONG tradition in common law that predates the very existance of the United States...

Oh boo hoo. Grow thicker skin. It was probably your crappy attitude towards smokers that got the smoke blown in your face. Not because they were inconsiderate.

Actually, once upon a time, I was rather tolerant toward smokers of cancer sticks. If you light up in the presense of non-smokers, you are being rude and discourteous... the same if you light up among children. Sorry, people have the right to use a public space without having smoke from cancer sticks blowing in my face. If I have been enjoying the beach with my family for two hours, we are settled on our towels and enjoying lunch, why should WE have to move because some blowhard with an addiction to a weed wants to light up his cancer stick next top me and my children. HE should move not us. However, this attitude amongst smokers is not uncommong, hence the growing movement to restrict their use.

Re: New Smoking Ban Good or Bad?

Originally Posted by ludahai

ANd I would file charges for assault... and in many jurisdictions, a case could be made on that basis...

And those rights I point to are NOT non-existant... as can be seen by an increasingly growing consensus that non-smokers DO have rights... And if you have children in your home, you darn well better believe that smoking in their presense IS child abuse... and you do NOT have an inalienable right to smoke in public in the presense of others... and it is the attitude of people like yourself that make these laws ever more palatable for the majority of people who find your attitude and actions to be disgraceful...

Good luck making that case. So ****ing sue me.

Smokers also have rights and I'll defend them. I won't blow smoke in your face because I am inconsiderate. I go out of my way to accommodate people who don't smoke and don't care to smell my smoke. I agree with no smoking indoors in public places (office, movie theater, trains, planes, etc.). If someone approaches me and asks me to stop in a nice way, I stop or move.

Re: New Smoking Ban Good or Bad?

Originally Posted by ludahai

Government regulates them, as they should. I support STRONGER emissions controls... so, you can't get me there...
And it is NOT bull crap to regulate them in public spaces. Government has LONG assumed that right and responsibility, and this has a LONG tradition in common law that predates the very existance of the United States...

No matter how strong the emmision controls are there will always be a pollutant coming from cars and factories. It is the nature of the beast.

Originally Posted by ludahai

Actually, once upon a time, I was rather tolerant toward smokers of cancer sticks. If you light up in the presense of non-smokers, you are being rude and discourteous... the same if you light up among children. Sorry, people have the right to use a public space without having smoke from cancer sticks blowing in my face. If I have been enjoying the beach with my family for two hours, we are settled on our towels and enjoying lunch, why should WE have to move because some blowhard with an addiction to a weed wants to light up his cancer stick next top me and my children. HE should move not us. However, this attitude amongst smokers is not uncommong, hence the growing movement to restrict their use.

I have never ONCE seen one single smoker light up when they were standing next to a non-smoker (or anyone else for that matter) without first asking if they minded. Unless they were 5 feet or more away. In which case that is well outside your personal space. And if a smoker sits down next to you on a beach I would move too. Not because they are a smoker, but because I'd be more worried about a pervert. I'd move even if they weren't a smoker.

I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

Re: New Smoking Ban Good or Bad?

Originally Posted by ludahai

You don't have to breathe the effects of an attitude that was caused by the inconsiderate actions of the smokers of cancer sticks...

No but that kind of attitude would make me want to punch the person, which is against the law. So its only fair that bad attitudes are banned also. After all...they both cause negative effects...right?

I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

Re: New Smoking Ban Good or Bad?

Originally Posted by reefedjib

Good luck making that case. So ****ing sue me.

Actually, the case would be easier than you think.

Smokers also have rights and I'll defend them. I won't blow smoke in your face because I am inconsiderate. I go out of my way to accommodate people who don't smoke and don't care to smell my smoke. I agree with no smoking indoors in public places (office, movie theater, trains, planes, etc.). If someone approaches me and asks me to stop in a nice way, I stop or move.

And non-smokers have rights and I will defend them... In my experience, smokers who are courteous are the distinct minority.

If someone comes at me with your attitude? **** you.

My attitude was a creation of the inconsiderate attitude of smokers over the decades...

Re: New Smoking Ban Good or Bad?

Originally Posted by Kal'Stang

No matter how strong the emmision controls are there will always be a pollutant coming from cars and factories. It is the nature of the beast.

Are you saying that we shouldn't work to reduce them as much as possible? Industry is vital to the economy of the country. Frankly, the U.S. and many other industrial countries are over-reliant on cars. I am a bicycle commuter and if more people commuted by bicycle and made less use of automobiles, the city would be cleaner and people would be healthier.

I have never ONCE seen one single smoker light up when they were standing next to a non-smoker (or anyone else for that matter) without first asking if they minded. Unless they were 5 feet or more away. In which case that is well outside your personal space. And if a smoker sits down next to you on a beach I would move too. Not because they are a smoker, but because I'd be more worried about a pervert. I'd move even if they weren't a smoker.

I see it and experience it all the time... And BTW, I can easily smell the smoke from at least 30 meters away, especially during a race. And if a smoker sat on a park bench next to me, I would report him to the police station nearby as it is illegal where I live... so THERE...

Re: New Smoking Ban Good or Bad?

Originally Posted by Kal'Stang

No but that kind of attitude would make me want to punch the person, which is against the law. So its only fair that bad attitudes are banned also. After all...they both cause negative effects...right?

I love the stretchs to which smokers and their apologists will go...

I am actually a pretty amiable person. My attitude regarding the users of cancer sticks comes directly from the attitudes of those smoking them. Also, if I have a bad attitude, it isn't causing you any direct harm. However, if you light up in my presence or the presence of my children, you ARE causing direct harm to others...

Ohh... you punch me (assuming you can get the punch through), you will face charges... I may be a little guy, but I often surprise people with how quick and strong I am... so watch who you hit...

Secondhand smoke is a mixture of the smoke given off by the burning end of a cigarette, pipe, or cigar, and the smoke exhaled by smokers. Secondhand smoke is also called environmental tobacco smoke (ETS) and exposure to secondhand smoke is sometimes called involuntary or passive smoking. Secondhand smoke contains more that 4,000 substances, several of which are known to cause cancer in humans or animals.

EPA has concluded that exposure to secondhand smoke can cause lung cancer in adults who do not smoke. EPA estimates that exposure to secondhand smoke causes approximately 3,000 lung cancer deaths per year in nonsmokers.
Exposure to secondhand smoke has also been shown in a number of studies to increase the risk of heart disease.
Serious Health Risks to Children

Children are particularly vulnerable to the effects of secondhand smoke because they are still developing physically, have higher breathing rates than adults, and have little control over their indoor environments. Children exposed to high doses of secondhand smoke, such as those whose mothers smoke, run the greatest relative risk of experiencing damaging health effects.

Exposure to secondhand smoke can cause asthma in children who have not previously exhibited symptoms.
Exposure to secondhand smoke increases the risk for Sudden Infant Death Syndrome.
Infants and children younger than 6 who are regularly exposed to secondhand smoke are at increased risk of lower respiratory track infections, such as pneumonia and bronchitis.
Children who regularly breathe secondhand smoke are at increased risk for middle ear infections.
Health Risks to Children with Asthma

Asthma is the most common chronic childhood disease affecting 1 in 13 school aged children on average.
Exposure to secondhand smoke can cause new cases of asthma in children who have not previously shown symptoms.
Exposure to secondhand smoke can trigger asthma attacks and make asthma symptoms more severe.