I like that there is an element of challenge involved. People want content that they can soak up and faceroll in a week, so they can then complain there needs to be more content in the game. So many people now want instant gratification, and when they can't blow through it they want it nerfed. What ever happened to enjoying taking the time to complete things.....this is an MMO. By design things should be challenging and take time.

That being said, the only thing I do not like about it.......I am a holy/disc specced healer. This makes the Brawlers guild next to impossible for me to do without completely farming a dps set/respeccing every time. There are a lot of mechanics in these fights, imo they need to increase or remove the enrage timers.

For all you dual-specced healers out there: also keep in mind that the Guild invites are account-wide, so you can always pick an alt that you want to work with instead. There are no rewards from the Guild that are in any way character-bound.

The screenshot is from a 4+ hour long multiple raid guild flame fest in EQ2 (I've seen all this crap in multiple games, so yeah, it's frequent enough to be even a status quo). The members of the top raid guild (one of the top raid guilds in EQ2) broke off to start their own raid because the top guild were arrogant baffoons. The server really had fun over it all (why it lasted for over 4 hours) because it was a chance for PAYBACK. Nasty, arrogant and obnoxious folks who really needed the dressing down (they carried it to EQ2Flames and their guild leader got his wall of shame in the process -- raiders themselves gave him the black eye).

I'm confused as to how this proves your point or is even relevant.

If you honestly believe either that:

A. All raiding guilds are filled with kids/d!ckheads

or

B. All raiding guilds have a strong drug and alcohol influence

You really are excluding about 60-90% of raiding guilds. Most of of us just want to down some bosses and have some laughs along the way.

Well, I am not in yet but it doesn't bother me too much. Yes, I want to be able to participate but with all the other things like LFR/Dungeons/AV week/5.1 daily's/ golden lotus and Klaxxi daily quests.

So much to do I don't really miss it even though I tried it on the PTR

I do agree that the Brawler's Guild design could be improved through normalization, but it would still suffer from the problem of class dependency. It is impossible to create multiple encounters that offer a similar challenge to even most of the classes, not to mention specs. Overgearing is a way in which some of them can counter lacking viability. Normalization would either require a big overhaul of the encounters or further pressure people into using alternative characters in order to have an easier time.

Dave Kosak does seem to acknowledge the problem with healers and tanks when bringing up the Brawler's Guild and the Proving Grounds in a recent interview.

I do agree that the Brawler's Guild design could be improved through normalization, but it would still suffer from the problem of class dependency. It is impossible to create multiple encounters that offer a similar challenge to even most of the classes, not to mention specs. Overgearing is a way in which some of them can counter lacking viability. Normalization would either require a big overhaul of the encounters or further pressure people into using alternative characters in order to have an easier time.

Yup. You can't just look at this from one angle; if you normalize, certainly some specs, and in some cases maybe even whole classes, are now unable to compete. I don't have the data, but I bet if you took the average ilvl of successful Brawlers and sorted it by class, you would see some interesting differences in what kind of gear each class needs to get Rank 7/8.

The last feature in wow that interested me as much as the brawlers guild does was when the in-game voice system was implemented.

+1 sir.
OT: Honestly, I like that bliz is bringing in some features that the entitled masses aren't immediately able to click their way through. If you don't raid you don't get the best (pve)gear in game, and if you don't have the best (pve)gear in game you aren't as powerful as the folks who did.

So, apparently this newly implemented SOLO content is nothing more than an e-peen meter for geared raiders.

I've not personally gotten an invite yet, so I can't say anything from personal experience, but from what I've seen, apparently the later bosses require such high DPS amounts (combined with some survivability), that we're talking about high-end raid gear. People who have justice point gear, or PvP gear, seem to be getting shafted in this completely.

I was expecting this to be content that could be cleared by everyone, not just the raiding minority. Looks like I was wrong.

Anyone here not in heavy valor point gear who has reached rank 8? That would prove me wrong and show me that you don't need high-end raid gear to clear this content. Content, by the way, that was designed for SOLO playing.

There is a reason why rank 8 stuff is difficult. It's meant to be. It gives you a goal to work towards. In it's current state, the rank 8 fights are hard and do require a great deal of DPS to beat the enrage timer. So yes. Right now, it's going to require good gear. I don't know if one needs to be fully decked out in top BIS gear to do it though. I have watched people fighting rank 8 opponents and have inspected them after... they aren't all decked out in full BIS gear. Remember, as the tiers progress, it's going to be easier to handle the rank 8 bosses in the current gear.

But back to my original point. Blizzard has given you a goal, they have given you a reason to play and to see the rest of the game. Think about how silly it would be if anyone could just walk in and beat everything in a couple hours. We would be sitting here bitching about how much of a failure the Brawlers Guild is.

I don't understand your attitude towards this. Do you also feel that absolutely everyone, in the most basic of gear, should be able to walk in to a raid and decimate it on the first day? Do you also feel like players should be able to walk into any PvP scenario (with little to no gear) and beat everyone who has worked to obtain better gear? I guess what I am asking you is, do you feel that everything should be handed to everyone without having to work towards it? This is where you and I will differ in our opinions. I like the idea of having something to work towards. I like the idea of having a clear goal and I like the satisfaction of obtaining my goal through the hard work I put in to it. I feel like it's just silly to expect everything to be given to me without having to really work for it. If you want complete equality and you don't want to have to work towards a goal, you are playing the wrong game.

This is why such events really need to be more about skill than cheap "burn it down" mechanics. Plus, players can then be proud they downed a boss that just didn't need to be overgeared to win (and for roles like full time healers can also enjoy).

Let players enjoy the game in their preferred roles. More will be happy to participate -- inclusion is always better than exclusion (and WoW needs more happy players).

From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes.
They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."

I'm in LFR gear stuck on battletron, I think the mimimum dps requirnment is around 85k. I'm pushing about 71-75. When I get high-tier LFR gear I got it down pack.

You don't need this amazing heroic gear until the rank 8 rare bosses I believe. LFR players can have fun, too.

---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 05:37 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Kane49

463 ilvl, rank 8.
Cant beat any of the level 8's though.

I personally call BS on this one, post me your armory. I can't see how you'd maintain high dps at 463ilevel without a massively broken class/glitch.

---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 05:42 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Azrile

The fights are retard checks, not gear checks. If you are in dungeon blues and you can learn and execute the fights you can beat them. Most of the fights have insta-kill events that will kill you if you are stupid no matter what gear you have. Yeah a person in great gear will be able to finish the fight after beating the mechanism 15 times while you may take 18 times.. but really, once you know the fight you know the fight, having to do something 3 extra times is not a big deal.

The bigger problem is pet classes, or classes like shaman or DKs who have CD pets. Army of Dead trivializes most of the fights along with fire ellies. I´ve been in the Guild for a couple days, and those guys just breeze through fights. You see a rogue or warrior and you almost feel pity. I am curious if someone has yet run through the armory to see what classes are getting highest rankes. I am guessing hunters and DKs.. and DKS not for the self healing, but for Army. Every DK I have seen fight, pops Army right away.

False, the high rank fights require gear even if you ace mechanics. And battletron derails your theory on pet-based classes.

---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 05:43 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Azrile

You are wrong, and I almost guarantee that at some point one of these ´best´ players is going to post a video of them beating the top tier encounters in dungeon blues similar to the way guilds usted to do it during raiding. These fights are about mechanisms, not dps checks. they are nothing more than overland rares on steroids. Doesn´t matter what gear you have, if you stand in front of the mantis, you are going to die quick during bladestorm.

so many people fail to see how easy they'll be in 5.2. people clear it in normal raid gear now, heroic raid geared probably have a pretty easy time up to rank 8. imagine how supereasy it will be with 5.2 lfr/raid gear. seriously... as with other additions to the game this expansion tehy're not meant to last ONE patch, but the rest of the xpac.

Brawler guild season 2! Rank 9 /10 /11/ 12!

Originally Posted by Professional Shitposter

getting banned from mmoc is like being let out of your jail cell when your sentence is over.

I am a holy paladin. My ret offspec is what I use to do Brawler's guild. Instead of this so called high end raiding gear, I'm using 4 peices from LFR and the rest heroic dungeon gear that is fully gemmed and enchanted. This place is not an epeen contest for so called high end raiders. This is quite litterally about how skillfully you can do these fights and how well you can play your class. I'm at Rank 7 and just defeated GG Engineering (the so called hardest rank 7 fight). Every class is capable of killing these in heroic dungeon gear. There is absolutely no "epeen for high end raiders" part.

All gear does in this place is makes it slightly easier and you can have a lower skillcap. Otherwise this is absolutely doable in heroic dungeon blues.

Wow... internets though guy.... I have been blindly believing internets tuff guys since... well, never.
Why should anyone take things as utmost truth without any proof, or even the slightest background to back it up?

Wow... internets though guy.... I have been blindly believing internets tuff guys since... well, never.
Why should anyone take things as utmost truth without any proof, or even the slightest background to back it up?

What's a "Internets though guy"?
What he wrote was flawless logic, and you just call it off as being an "internet tough guy".