MA - for newb

I didn't realize how terrible at skiing I was until I videotaped myself!

Looking for some constructive criticism. Would appreciate some help from all you instructor types.

I skied 20 years ago about 6 times and then took it up again this January. I'm diving into it as much as work/kids/time-off will allow. I have about 14 or so days in this year and may get a few more before the end of the season.

Anyhow, I realize the video isn't great, but it's all I got right now.

Sooooooo.....

What should I do to improve? Greens are no problem. I'm going as fast as I can, when I can and love that feeling!!!!! Blues are more challenging and I still feel like I need to pump the brakes at times... I can do some blacks, but honestly I don't think it would help.

I took an intermediate group lesson a few days ago. There was 5 of us, so I really didn't get any one-on-one time. The only thing the instructor mentioned was raising my uphill hand more than my downhill. We were on blues pretty much the whole time.

The last section is the only video I have with someone else taping. I was slowing down, it wasn't very steep, etc., etc. Will try to get a better video next time!

Constructive criticism.... Cant see much from the video except your ski tips and your ski poles. You are not grabbing your ski poles correctly. Your hand is supposed to go inside the loop from down under and then grab the loop and the handle in one firm grip. Also, don't reach forwards with your arm and point your pole forward at the end of each turn preparing for your next pole plant. This will drag your upper body and hips with them and cause poor edging and unwanted skidding. It also looks a bit defensive. The pole plant should be made as a quick isolated movement indicating that "now Im gonna turn". You were the fastest out there that day, congrats. I liked the way you sneaked up on that old woman and then blasted past. Like in F1.

Also, don't reach forwards with your arm and point your pole forward at the end of each turn preparing for your next pole plant. This will drag your upper body and hips with them and cause poor edging and unwanted skidding. It also looks a bit defensive. The pole plant should be made as a quick isolated movement indicating that "now Im gonna turn".

I've never been taught how to pole plant. I'm just kind of doing it... Will definitely work on it though. Thanks for the insight.

As far as the old woman I passed... I try to ski around slower folk as it makes me feel like I'm ripping it up!

At this level mileage helps you improve almost as much as any tips. Keep at it and enjoy the ride. They say it's awful hard to see yourself skiing and this video proves it. But we can see some things that might help.

We can see a tall stance centered in between the bindings.

This is what we want to see. My friend Tony Knows how to ski. That's a little reminder that the toes, knees and nose should be in vertical alignment as a reference point. This stance is right there.

We can see the pole touch initiated with a flick of the wrist. That's also something we want to see.

The contact point for the touch is sometimes close to the ski tip. We'd like to see that touch point target be more downhill and to the inside of the new turn. In the picture above we can also see that in some of your turns the skis are in a noticeable wedge position to begin the turn and that the new outside ski is ahead of the new inside ski. Most of your turns have a smaller wedge, but I'd like to see you make a few runs with this size wedge being made consistently in every turn. What we can't see in this cropped shot is that your are leaning into slope here. What we want to see here is that the left shoulder and the right shoulder are the same height over the snow surface so that a line drawn from one shoulder to the other would be parallel to the snow surface (i.e. on the same slope). We also want to see the left shoulder and left hip in the same relationship to the right shoulder and right hip as the left ski is to the right ski. This would get your helmet cam looking more straight down the trail and level. It would also allow your pole touch to bring your belly button over your right ski to flatten it if you were to move your pole touch further to the right and downhill.

Finally, we can see your skis wobble a lot. We'd like to see them a lot steadier. This means you need to get the edges engaged in the snow better. To do that you need to tip the skis more and turn the skis less. As the skis get higher on edge they will want to turn you. So you need to be in position to balance against those turning forces. This is where the shoulder and hip alignment in the previous paragraph help. It takes time to trust that the skis will actually do more of the work for you so make sure that you try this on the easiest slopes first. As the edges get engaged more, you will find that your "speed limit" will increase.

When you walk do your shoulders stay square to where you are going? Good. That is your feet moving independently of your shoulders and your shoulders never changing their orientation relative to the direction of travel but always changing orientation relative to the feet.

Now try walking where your shoulder stays over your foot with each step and pause after the second step. Here your shoulders change orientation to the direction of travel with each step, but they maintain their orientation relative to the angle for the feet. After each step, if you were draw a line from one big toe to the other big toe it would be parallel to a line drawn from one shoulder to the other. If you had skis on, a line drawn from one ski tip to the other ski tip would also be parallel to the shoulder and toe lines. A line drawn from one hip to the other hip would also be parallel. It's possible to rotate your shoulders and hips to make the lines not parallel, but (barring injury) the parallel lines position would be in the middle of the rotation and would be the natural position you'd be in when walking a straight line.

Like our normal walking "stance" we want our shoulders oriented to the direction of travel when we ski. But when we ski we are turning most of the time and our center of mass travels a different line than the path that our skis take. So we want the hips and shoulders to be oriented to that path vs the path that the skis are traveling. To get the center of mass traveling across the skis to the inside of the new turn, some people think of flexing the new inside leg, other people think of extending from the new outside leg, and other people think of long leg/short leg (new outside becomes longer while new inside leg becomes shorter). Any of these approaches can take your skiing to a new level of performance.

One thing that I am seeing, and it is similar to what Rusty is saying. Currently, you have a lot of action in the upper body. Your shoulders are swinging in the direction of each turn, and you are swinging your arms as you ski as well.

Rather than that, keep your shoulders directed downhill, and turn your feet underneath you. Also, rather than swinging your arms, try positioning your arms in a way that would resemble carrying a lunch tray. You know you're doing it right when you can just see your gloves in the bottom edge of your goggles.

The general idea is that the further up your body you go, the less it is turning. The turn comes from your hip joint, and doesn't continue up into your shoulders.

To get the center of mass traveling across the skis to the inside of the new turn, some people think of flexing the new inside leg, other people think of extending from the new outside leg, and other people think of long leg/short leg (new outside becomes longer while new inside leg becomes shorter). Any of these approaches can take your skiing to a new level of performance.

I'm with you now. Thanks. I've actually tried extending the new outside leg before when I was messing around. I didn't realize that was the path to my success. I'll try both of those at different times to see what works for me. I'll try to get some video as well.

Your comments are much appreciated. Thanks for the further explanation.

Might not show in the video, but the skiing felt different. Tried to concentrate on the lower body separation and the hands holding the tray. I got lazy sometimes and let things break down. Some of the video appears to be the same and some has changed... hopefully for the better.

Well the best thing would be to have someone film you so you don't look like an ant for most of it.

From the pov.

Work on holding the poles and using the straps. See tdk6 post above. This can be done in the lodge or parking lot.

Your pole plant timing is off. Essentially, you are "planting" the pole then turning around it. Probably you were told that as kid. It's kind of true, but you're beyond that stage.

The pole plant helps with timing and flow. In turns like you're doing, it's planted as the edges change. It helps you move into the new turn. So the touch, or plant, occurs after the edges have changed. If you're willy nilly about how you hold them, the planting will be similar. Get a grip! Even if it's loose.

You can practice pole plant by just holding it slightly above the ground in position and having your whole body plant it as you go into the turn.

Another pole drill is to ski along a line made by a snowmobile or you can have someone draw it with a pole.

Make symmetric turns on each side of the line like a Sine wave. Plant the pole along the line in the middle. That needs to be watched by someone though cause you can force all sorts of other things, but you should feel it.

3. Move your right hand in a fore and aft motion repeatedly so that your hand touches between your shoulder blades repeatedly

There you go. You just gave yourself a pat on the back. You have most certainly earned it!

The differences between the two videos are significant. What I saw in the first video was a skier with a loose, undisciplined upper body that was dominating what his feet were doing at many times in the turn. Now, I'm seeing a skier with a calm, quiet upper body, who is turning from the hip joint, and using his feet to manipulate the skis. Great job! Your hands are right where they should be, the pole touch is in the correct ballpark, your shoulders appear squared to the mountain for the majority of your turn. I also notice some increased edge angle, which has eliminated the 'floppiness' the feet through the turn.

Now, to take it to the next level, here is what I would like to draw your attention to. In the POV shots, you did a good job of giving an angle that allows for good MA, we can see your ski tips. And what I'm seeing there is that you have a slight stem when you initiate turns. When you make a left turn, it is not always there, and sometimes so small as to be unnoticeable. However, when you initiate a right turn, it is almost always there, and more significant. This tells me a couple things. First, you are still a little hesitant about committing to the fall line and letting your edges go to initiate the new turn. Second, it tells me that you are right leg dominant, and more comfortable turning to the left, when the right leg is the outside leg.

So, to work on that, I would suggest doing some sideslipping. I would really suggest you do it on a steep pitch. Like really steep. 40 plus degrees. Now, I'm not suggesting you find a gnarly double black to practice this on. Find little spots where the is maybe 20 or 30 feet of steepness. The sides of berms, etc. Always make sure you have somebody with you to watch for people coming, because these little steep bits are usually blind from above. get on that little drop, and sideslip down it, slowly. Stop and start in 5-7 foot increments. What you are trying to focus on with this is the simultaneous edge release. With a steeper slope, the feedback is going to be immediate. If you're leaving your uphill ski behind, it is because you aren't releasing both edges. Practice this until you really get the feel for both edges letting go at the same time. Once you have the feel for that, take that into your turn. As you start each turn, you want to feel that simultaneous edge release you practiced in side slipping.

That being said, you have definitely shown us a breakthrough, and you are doing a great job! Keep up the awesome work, love the enthusiasm and desire to learn! *high five*

There are some who would argue that quantum change is possible at this level. Others would argues that growth is a multi season effort at this level. This is an important step in the right direction for DV. I wish I had the key to unlock quantum jumps in ability over the Internet for everyone. At this point (and over the Internet), I can only advise "more"! If you're happy with this progress keep going. If you want faster progress, you'll need in person coaching.

3. Move your right hand in a fore and aft motion repeatedly so that your hand touches between your shoulder blades repeatedly

There you go. You just gave yourself a pat on the back. You have most certainly earned it!

The differences between the two videos are significant. What I saw in the first video was a skier with a loose, undisciplined upper body that was dominating what his feet were doing at many times in the turn. Now, I'm seeing a skier with a calm, quiet upper body, who is turning from the hip joint, and using his feet to manipulate the skis. Great job! Your hands are right where they should be, the pole touch is in the correct ballpark, your shoulders appear squared to the mountain for the majority of your turn. I also notice some increased edge angle, which has eliminated the 'floppiness' the feet through the turn.

Now, to take it to the next level, here is what I would like to draw your attention to. In the POV shots, you did a good job of giving an angle that allows for good MA, we can see your ski tips. And what I'm seeing there is that you have a slight stem when you initiate turns. When you make a left turn, it is not always there, and sometimes so small as to be unnoticeable. However, when you initiate a right turn, it is almost always there, and more significant. This tells me a couple things. First, you are still a little hesitant about committing to the fall line and letting your edges go to initiate the new turn. Second, it tells me that you are right leg dominant, and more comfortable turning to the left, when the right leg is the outside leg.

So, to work on that, I would suggest doing some sideslipping. I would really suggest you do it on a steep pitch. Like really steep. 40 plus degrees. Now, I'm not suggesting you find a gnarly double black to practice this on. Find little spots where the is maybe 20 or 30 feet of steepness. The sides of berms, etc. Always make sure you have somebody with you to watch for people coming, because these little steep bits are usually blind from above. get on that little drop, and sideslip down it, slowly. Stop and start in 5-7 foot increments. What you are trying to focus on with this is the simultaneous edge release. With a steeper slope, the feedback is going to be immediate. If you're leaving your uphill ski behind, it is because you aren't releasing both edges. Practice this until you really get the feel for both edges letting go at the same time. Once you have the feel for that, take that into your turn. As you start each turn, you want to feel that simultaneous edge release you practiced in side slipping.

That being said, you have definitely shown us a breakthrough, and you are doing a great job! Keep up the awesome work, love the enthusiasm and desire to learn! *high five*

Hahahahaha! I was so focused on your instruction, you had me patting myself on the back. Good one!

On to skiing...

Yes, I am right leg dominant. I've done sideslips before, but I'll make it a point to incorporate it into my warm-up routine. I know exactly what you're talking about when you say release both edges at the same time because I can feel it. If I get out there and concentrate on it, I believe I can remove it.

Thanks for the comments in general. I think I have a clearer understanding of the direction I should be heading with my skiing. Prior to posting my video, I think I was a little uncertain as to where all the parts of skiing were taking me. I'm the type of person that has to understand the "why" before I fully commit to something. It's sometimes a little frustrating. It might be just as frustrating for those giving the advise as well.

I noticed the floppiness of my skis in the video, but never notice it or feel it when skiing. Could part of that be attributed to shorter skis? I purposely bought skis that are a little short to help with my "training." I'm 6', 205lbs. and have 163 cm Head Rev 78's. If you watch the video I posted on pole plants above, that guys skis don't move a damn mm back and forth. Impressive.

There are some who would argue that quantum change is possible at this level. Others would argues that growth is a multi season effort at this level. This is an important step in the right direction for DV. I wish I had the key to unlock quantum jumps in ability over the Internet for everyone. At this point (and over the Internet), I can only advise "more"! If you're happy with this progress keep going. If you want faster progress, you'll need in person coaching.

Thanks Rusty.

I want to thank you for your comments. One of the reasons I started this thread was because I haven't really found an instructor that I've connected with. I thought I did, but had another lesson and expectations didn't live up to reality. I don't mean to sound negative. All the instructors I've had have been good and are probably better skiers than I'll ever be. I'm just looking for the one guy/girl that inspires me and has a high level of understanding of the sport. Might be a tough find.

I like how you used the term "coaching." I'd rather find a coach than an instructor. Any suggestions?

Hahahahaha! I was so focused on your instruction, you had me patting myself on the back. Good one!

On to skiing...

Yes, I am right leg dominant. I've done sideslips before, but I'll make it a point to incorporate it into my warm-up routine. I know exactly what you're talking about when you say release both edges at the same time because I can feel it. If I get out there and concentrate on it, I believe I can remove it.

Thanks for the comments in general. I think I have a clearer understanding of the direction I should be heading with my skiing. Prior to posting my video, I think I was a little uncertain as to where all the parts of skiing were taking me. I'm the type of person that has to understand the "why" before I fully commit to something. It's sometimes a little frustrating. It might be just as frustrating for those giving the advise as well.

I noticed the floppiness of my skis in the video, but never notice it or feel it when skiing. Could part of that be attributed to shorter skis? I purposely bought skis that are a little short to help with my "training." I'm 6', 205lbs. and have 163 cm Head Rev 78's. If you watch the video I posted on pole plants above, that guys skis don't move a damn mm back and forth. Impressive.

I'm also a person who wants to know the reasons behind something when I'm trying to do something. It means I end up talking a lot of tech at PSIA clinics with the examiners. I also really understand the feeling that there are a lot of little pieces and moving parts, and not really being sure what the whole picture is. I always think of skiing as an engine. It is a complex machine, it has a ton of moving parts. A poorly designed engine has loose parts, is badly engineered so that the different elements don't mesh that well, there is a lot of clatter and squeaking and tapping going on in there. Sure, it'll run, but it might not sound pretty, and won't deliver a whole ton of power. That's inefficient skiing right there. On the other hand, a well tuned engine out of a BMW M3, that's good skiing. Everything fits together perfectly, it is quiet, smooth, and powerful. No wasted energy. As you improve, you're going to feel those moments where your turn is closer to the M3's engine than the old rattletrap engine you used to have. It'll feel smooth, efficient, and powerful. You'll feel perfect control over your skis. And when you feel it, all those moving parts will be doing what they're supposed to do. So when somebody tells you 'try this, try that', think of it in the context of being a cylinder head, or a head gasket, or something like that. All parts that should fit together nicely to make a well tuned machine.

Alright, enough waxing poetic about skiing metaphors. The pole plant video is a good one, I especially like how he actually de-emphasizes it. He points out that it is important, but you shouldn't be reaching or flailing for it. The timing is right, just after the edge release. To bring it into the system of the turn, think of it this way. When you release your edges, your body is starting to move in a direction that naturally brings that downhill pole closer to the snow, right? So use that natural motion, continue it with that wrist flick that is going to allow the pole to touch the snow. And if you are skiing on a groomer, it really is just a pole touch, not a plant. Just a light tap of the tip of the pole on the snow. As you move up, and start skiing moguls and steeps and trees, you will start using a stronger pole plant at times, a blocking pole plant. But for now, just a light touch will do.

Ski length... yes, your skis are a bit short for you. I am an advocate of short skis, more than most upper level skiers. I am 5'9" 190lbs and I ski on skis that are in the 165 range a lot of the time, which his short for my size and weight. Your skis are shorter than mine, and you are 3 inches taller, 15lbs heavier. So I would say the skis are a bit short. As far as contributing to the floppiness though, no. The floppiness or wobbliness of the ski has everything to do with edge angle and edge pressure, rather than the length of the ski.

Do you agree with this guy? Just trying to find a video to help me more clearly understand the timing. I have to agree that my timing, compared to the video, is a bit off.

Well if you want to screw up your skiing.....focus on the pole plants. Happens all the time.

Often parents get all worried about their kids and poles, but most instructors concentrate on the skis and what they're doing on the snow. However, there comes a time when the poles need to be addressed and you're there.

Sure, I agree with that video. I think he has too much tension in the arms/shoulders holding that position but it's better than Zombie arms. Just realize that statements about pole planting are rarely absolute and things vary depending. Sometimes it's just a little flick of the wrist and touch, sometimes it might be a firm pole plant, no pole plant, sometimes continuous arm movement to a not touch touch like in gs. In moguls sometimes one uses a blocking pole plant.

Arms are tough to define. Try this, stand across the hill, drop arms to the side hanging freely. Now bend arm at elbow and lift hands up to roughly 90 deg. Could be little more or little less. Now move elbows forward. How much? Well probably around just at the front of the body but could be less. Also move them out laterally away from the body so they breathe. You might have to adjust the elbow angle.

Sounds complicated, but it's pretty simple. Basically, you want them in your peripheral vision. I've heard the term "holding a cloud" as a good description. Whatever works.

You should not look like Frankenstein, a Zombie, a T Rex Dinosaur (usually women), or Dracula sweeping his cape left and right. Some people call that "vampirating". It is common among people who used to race bamboo. Hand comes across the front in anticipation, then they plant. It's a tough habit to break, and a lot of good skiers do it.

The new thing among kids is to jam both hands in front of and into their chest with poles sticking to the side. As if their about to throw a corked 720 except the people who actually do those don't do that except out of the start. It's a style. Also becomes a habit hard to break. I did have two kids who skied like that everywhere. Then we went into blue woods and they dropped that style for "normal" hand/arm position unconsciously.

Best way is probably non pov video so you see what your hands are actually doing. Also, watch people from the chair. When you start doing things like steeps and moguls, arm/hand position becomes very important and can really screw things up.

I like how you used the term "coaching." I'd rather find a coach than an instructor. Any suggestions?

Whitetail (where I teach) is not that much farther from VB as Wintergreen. We've got at least 6 guys on staff who are better than I am. We have terrain that is perfect for getting you to the next level.

We have enough snow to go into April. As of last weekend, management was determined to go at least through the 16th, but that's a no brainer at this point. My unofficial bet is 3/30 closing date. This would make our longest season ever. The way things work is that management looks at the weekend attendance figures and the extended forecast. Once the weekend numbers get down to 500/day it takes a miracle in the forecast to go another week. I'd say 40% chance of 3/23, 45% 3/30 and 15% for 4/6.

I like how you used the term "coaching." I'd rather find a coach than an instructor. Any suggestions?

Whitetail (where I teach) is not that much farther from VB as Wintergreen. We've got at least 6 guys on staff who are better than I am. We have terrain that is perfect for getting you to the next level.

Massanutten also has a good ski school with a number of high level instructors with 10+ years of experience. There is more terrain there than you might think. Less skiable acres, but a little more vertical than Whitetail. Also a short bump run that is not groomed. Take a look at the EpicSki Unofficial Guide if you want to know more.

Whitetail (where I teach) is not that much farther from VB as Wintergreen. We've got at least 6 guys on staff who are better than I am. We have terrain that is perfect for getting you to the next level.

That's an awesome offer. Thank you.

I checked the distance and it looks as though it's about an hour longer for me than Wintergreen. I end up traveling 3.5 hours one way to ski. So it would be 7 hrs vs. 9 hrs of driving. Add in 4 hours or so of skiing and my day is getting a little long. If you were closer, I'd jump all over it.

Massanutten also has a good ski school with a number of high level instructors with 10+ years of experience. There is more terrain there than you might think. Less skiable acres, but a little more vertical than Whitetail. Also a short bump run that is not groomed. Take a look at the EpicSki Unofficial Guide if you want to know more.

I'll keep Massanutten in mind. I did find that Wintergreen has a Level III instructor available during the week, which is what I'm looking for.

Any word on how long Massanutten will remain open for skiing this year?

Massanutten also has a good ski school with a number of high level instructors with 10+ years of experience. There is more terrain there than you might think. Less skiable acres, but a little more vertical than Whitetail. Also a short bump run that is not groomed. Take a look at the EpicSki Unofficial Guide if you want to know more.

I'll keep Massanutten in mind. I did find that Wintergreen has a Level III instructor available during the week, which is what I'm looking for.

Any word on how long Massanutten will remain open for skiing this year?

Mnut announced March 16 as the tentative closing date about a week ago. Last season there was a bonus weekend after the early March snowstorm. Depending on how cold the weather is the next couple weeks, who knows?

Mnut has a couple Level III instructors who are available on Thu or Fri. I'll be there this weekend and can ask who will be around the next couple weeks. I know my coach is doing some skiing elsewhere next week.