Sunday, October 31, 2010

Foot Pursuit Training

A federal jury has ruled that a Philadelphia police officer who killed an unarmed man after a foot chase in 2006 has to pay the man's family $138,000.

The jury did not, however, find that the city or former Police Commissioner Sylvester M. Johnson could be held responsible for the death of 25-year-old Raymond Pelzer.

At the heart of the case was the argument that the Police Department should have established written rules and provided more training on foot pursuits, after being warned in a 2005 report that officers often used dangerous tactics while chasing suspects.

Three separate investigations - by the District Attorney's Office, the police Internal Affairs Division, and the Firearms Discharge Review Board - all ruled the Pelzer shooting justifiable.

And yet, the cop has to come up with $138,000 for a known shithead wanted on a probation violation who wouldn't show his hands until he was cornered following a chase.

67 Comments:

that sucks...ok, lets hear it from all the dogs about how your gonna get crucified everytime you get into a footchase now. this guy will be fine.. he wont have to pay 138000.. take it from me, In a court case I was in(shooting) I was ordered to pay 375,000 punitive 5 years ago. After an appeal hearing to the 7th circuit I didnt have to pay a dime. They will appeal it and the copper will be fine. Just like the dics in chicago are in the process of appealing thier punitive award they will end up fine too.... ok dogs, lets hear it.. tell me how im all wrong.. sorry to tell you though, Im right on this one..been there done that.

What have we learned? If we don't engage the enemy we have less interaction. Less interaction means less chance for CR #'s and negative outcomes for the PO. This all adds up to the PO insuring that his money stays in his pocket, and not that of some ghetto-rat piece of filthy garbage. The exempts can give all the "rah-rah, take back the streets" bullshit talks they want. Any PO with their eyes open knows that "de-policing" means they get to keep their money. And, a lot less stress. So I got that going for me....

Come on guys. Wake up. Police all over the country are getting screwed. Not just you guys. You want to make a point think about this….

Judges form opinions from simple observations brought to their attention in court.

Lawyers practice interrupting laws, thus hopefully helping the judge to make his observation.

Politicians change the laws to suit or hide their needs.

But you guys you get sued?

None of them could exist without police. It’s kind of hard to observe, practice, and/or hide if the police aren’t making arrests. I hate to say it, but you guys are on your heels and those in power know it. Some of those passages I’ve read by the old timers have it right. Protect yourselves first. Citizens have the right to bare arms in their homes. We can get away with protecting ourselves where you cannot.

Drugs? Listen, drugs are like alcohol. Just as it’s my responsibility to not do drugs it is also my responsibility to inform my children not to do drugs. If I fail in that regard then do not feel it is your responsibility to raise my children and put them on the right track. Yes, I’ll be sad if I lose a child, but better off in my old age if I’m taking care of my wife and self than taking care of an addicted adult child.

As for the politicians out there if I start to think my family or myself is in danger of a crime well I’m going to vote with my dollars and find a place where the politician is listening. I know, you’re all thinking ‘citizen’ you won’t move. You won’t take a loss on your home. Well, I’d rather take a monetary loss than live in fear worrying about my wife or my children walking home from school or the store from senseless crime.

Oh, and by the way, from what I’ve seen those cameras don’t seem to be catching the criminals. About the only thing those cameras seem to do is alert us crime is on the rise and we need to start looking for a suburb. Unless of course, it’s the red light cameras we’re referring to. Now those buggers work really well.

These judges have to go. These unelected, undisciplined, nitwits with law degrees really need their collective asses kicked. The scary thing is that they just know they're smarter than the rest of us, just like these blasted politicians. Yup, lawyers all.

Pretty soon it's going to be, "Hey Charlie, stand right there, don't move, I'm going to do my best to arrest you." With that, our friend Charlie jets off and the foot pursuit is ended because Charlie might fall down and skin his knee and the police officer will have to pay him $100k for his injuries. The public better wake the hell up and voice their concern over nonsense like this because it will get so bad that whatever stupid does, unless we accidentally catch him while he's napping, he'll get away because we can't do anything about it. Has anyone ever told that idiot judge that criminals run to avoid being caught? Once they realize you can't chase them, they'll get even bolder than they already are.

I'll bet a C-note (that's 100 bucks for the guys who can't get O'Hare) that before too long there will be a no-chase FOOT PURSUIT policy issued by Fort Fellatio.

Boys, the days of this being a respectable career is over. Cops were looked up to but now everyone think we're corrupt, useless and overpaid. There used to be a cool old poster that showed a typical shitty Chicago alley. The caption under the photo was "You wouldn't go in there for a million bucks. Cops go in there for a whole lot less. Call a friend. Call a cop."

It felt kinda good that people knew and appreciated that we did things for them and without asking a whole lot of thanks in return. Now, it feels like people hate us and only think of cops as a way to hit the ghetto lottery.

Remember that if you're sued they first check to see if there's a department policy on the incident. If the policy was followed by the officer, they have to provide counsel and indemnify the P.O. If you did something against written, published policy, the city can tell you to get your own attorney.

Our hands are becoming tied more and more. This is apparently where our civilization is headed. Nanny-state, uber-liberal people who have NO IDEA what we do at work every day.

Don't chase, don't shoot, don't arrest. Ho home safe and sound and with your family's finances intact. Let the attorney's go out there and police the city. My police car is for decoration. Never once in over 25 years did I ever get sued for not chasing or not shooting or not arresting someone.

Never once did I have to depend on an appeals court to wipe out a punitive damages award. It is much too late in the game to ever take that chance.

to three bars and a starI had a star and almost two bars when I retired

Long after he retired, A guy from my district was ordered to pay about 90 thousand.

Long story short He was ordered to pay after he retired The court learned that he tried to hide some assets and whistled him into courtAfter a scolding from the judge and coming very close to going to jailHe had to pay

It's all part of the Dems attempt to move this nation into a socialistic society.

Not only are they trying to redistribute the wealth through abusive taxes and welfare/social programs, they are also making this country's police forces ineffective by numbing their instincts to go after and arrest the "poor criminals" for fear of prosecution and financial judgments like this one.

For years now, juries of "our peers" have been rendering decisions like this, and letting untold numbers of criminals walk away from their crimes without punishment. The writing is on the wall that the police are expected to do little more than document crimes. Certainly this is true here in Chicago where our Detective Division is so shorthanded that little or no crime solving can be accomplished, even with the most thorough of preliminary investigations.

Not to mention the lack of deterrence and fear of getting caught in the commission of a crime due to shrinking police patrols and less pro-active policing. When we stick our necks out and try to go the extra mile, these juries just slap you back in the face and the wallet. They want you to just write the report and let the insurance companies handle it. Anything more than that just costs money in investigative costs in salaries and evidence processing /lab costs, court costs, costs to house criminals that ARE caught and convicted, and huge million dollar jury awards payable by the police departments for "police wrongdoing".

This is a very sad time for our profession, (and society in general), and, sad to say, there is little reason to believe that things will be getting better anytime soon.

Never once in over 25 years did I ever get sued for not chasing or not shooting or not arresting someone.----------------------------------Thanks for leaving Police work for everybody else buddy. Im sure that was 25 years of Coppers returning to your jobs to "do the job" you wouldn't. Stop blogging and embarassing yourself....

three bars and a star said...that sucks...ok, lets hear it from all the dogs about how your gonna get crucified everytime you get into a footchase now. this guy will be fine.. he wont have to pay 138000.. take it from me, In a court case I was in(shooting) I was ordered to pay 375,000 punitive 5 years ago. After an appeal hearing to the 7th circuit I didnt have to pay a dime. They will appeal it and the copper will be fine. Just like the dics in chicago are in the process of appealing thier punitive award they will end up fine too.... ok dogs, lets hear it.. tell me how im all wrong.. sorry to tell you though, Im right on this one..been there done that.

10/31/2010 12:24:00 AM

DUH!

So keep up the same patterns that caused you and your family the anguish and emotional and financial hardship because MAYBE, down the road, this COULD BE reversed on appeal?

I won't criticize your particular case, since we know nothing about it, and certainly if it became necessary to use your weapon, there is no criticism that should be brought, but you, my friend, are a complete moron if you are still doing the same shit that you did before, that caused you to get a $375,000 judgement against your ass. My and my family's future and financial welfare are WAAAY too important to me to be risking it on bullshit!

Good for you super cop. Go out there and keep chasing and arresting and calling the rest of us dogs.

As far as never paying a dime, I've had friends on this job who have had to pay out of their own pockets.

The writing is on the wall. The bosses, citizens and court system aren't on our side. All I do now is answer my calls and always back other officers up. Call me a dog. I'm okay with that. I'm also okay with keeping my house and not going through the stress of the shit that comes down when we proactive police work.

three bars and a star said...that sucks...ok, lets hear it from all the dogs about how your gonna get crucified everytime you get into a footchase now. this guy will be fine.. he wont have to pay 138000.. take it from me, In a court case I was in(shooting) I was ordered to pay 375,000 punitive 5 years ago. After an appeal hearing to the 7th circuit I didnt have to pay a dime. They will appeal it and the copper will be fine. Just like the dics in chicago are in the process of appealing thier punitive award they will end up fine too.... ok dogs, lets hear it.. tell me how im all wrong.. sorry to tell you though, Im right on this one..been there done that.10/31/2010 12:24:00 AM

Congrats! I'm happy that it ultimately worked out for you. That being said, however, it's still no picnic going through possibly years of litigation, wondering just how things MIGHT turn out.

Even if there never was a CRIMINAL aspect of a police/custody-related death, punitive awards and the stress associated with it takes a toll. Wondering if the dead pooch's family is going to get all or a chunk of your Deferred Comp. Wondering if that shyster lawyer plans on putting a lien on your property. Wondering if the cash, stocks and bonds you socked away for your kids' college can/will be found and taken as partial settlement.

Let's not forget to mention: the stress caused by lost sleep, the running-around and document-gathering (providing the courts with a list of assets and liabilities SURE IS FUN!!), and all the other caveats associated with being presumed guilty until proven innocent.

It ain't "three bars and a star"-ago...it's 2010. And it case you've been in a coma, ooohhhh, say, the last "three bars"...the deck has been stacked entirley against the police...especially the "working" police. Good, well-intentioned men and women getting socked with punitive damages for something as simple as forgetting to inventory a sample of June Bug's "OE" for that almighty DOPW pinch (you Hair Gels seeing how all this neatly ties together yet?). Then there's those detectives that recently got the bill that they're on the hook for big money for something related to keeping witnesses past the point where their Cadillac turned back into a pumpkin...ad naseum...

So, yes...let's hear it from the dogs (starting with me). Preferrably the dogs who've "been there, done that", and are smart enough to know that you'll burn your hand on that hot stove...so don't keep touching it hoping for different results. I've also been in police shootings...two to be exact. And while I walked away unscathed for the most part, things were much different with the department and society as a whole back then.

Recap: unless someone's shooting at me, my partner or any police officer, CFD, paramedic, military personnel, etc., or unless I have to take police action off duty to protect my family, friends, or legitimate neighbors...I AIN'T DOING SHIT. Self-preservation has never quite meant what it means currently, folks. Figure it out and you'll see just how much peace it can bring you mind, body and spirit.

As three bars and a star indicated, most likely the punitive damages will be struck down on appeal. But, the fact remains, they might not be and the verdict alone causes tremendous unneeded stress to the officer and his family. Yes, lawyers are bottom feeders and scum. But, I wonder, is it worth having the FOP obtain unsurance coverage for cases like this in the event the verdict is not overturned?

As a private citizen of Shitcago, these types of awards scare the shit out of me and I can only imagine what it is doing to our Police Officers. I understand your desire to protect yourselves from these liberal ghetto lottery awards, but at the same time I don't want to become a statistic as a victim. I don't know what the best answer is, but I do know that everyone needs to get out there and vote on Tuesday.

to 12:24:00 Glad to hear it worked out for you andd I'm sure what you are saying is true, BUT times are changing what happened previously doesn't mean its going to continue to happen. Juries are not like they used to be and even the appellate courts are changing their rulings All I can say is be careful and is it worth putting yourself in that position over chasing some fool Guess thats up to the individual po to decide

Anonymous said...Anyone still policing needs their head examined. The message is clear. Make the report and onto the next job. Repeat.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You guys bitch about having to do police work:lay down, just do a reportThen you beat up on the " blue jeans " police and "hair gels" doing any proactive policing.Then, when it comes to your OWN neighborhoods, you bitch about lack of police presence, response and activity...you want your fellow officers to " protect the homefront"You can't have it both ways.Did you ever think that some aggressive officers aren't doing work for the tact lieutenant the commander or anybody else or for no another reason thento protect the few decent citizens out thereand to take down the thugs that need to be taken off the streets, and to make some decent ot ?Anytime you report for duty, or even when you're off duty, you run the risk of getting hurt, killed and or sued or beefed on,its the nature of the beastIf you can't deal with that...quitthere's too many badged clerks, mutts, dogasses and do nothings on this job.Does this mean go out and police like some kid of a buck wild ignorant cowboy or primadonna? No those days are pastYou have to police with your head, not with your emotionsIf you are scared of policing, quit or suffer in silence, don't beat down the officers that want to do the job,and for you aggressive officers, if a senior officer has advice for you, listen but take it with a grain of salt-make up your own mind.Ok let the bashing begin, and fyi I'm not tact, a kool aide drinker, or a friend of Jfled and Masters.

It is rather obvious that society (represented by the jury / judge in these cases) does not want you to do a damn thing.

So why do it. I’m not going to put my future, financial security, family or anything that I have in jeopardy for some useless shitstain of a human being. To me, it just aint worth it!

Then we have “Mr. Tough Guy” @ Im right on this one..been there done that.10/31/2010 12:24:00 AMWow, I’m fucking impressed! It got overturned in the appellate court. I’ll bet for those years, you couldn’t pound a hairpin up your ass with a sledgehammer, it was puckers soo tight! Let’s hear of how much of a hard charger you were during that time, Rambo… Please, regale the stories on how much you didn’t care about that suit. I’ll bet not a day went by that you didn’t second guess yourself, or thought of your future, financial security, family… If not, you’re a liar, delusional, or just completely brainwashed. A little “stressful” few years there, huh bud?

We have a lying coward for a Supt, who obviously won’t back us when we need it. A mayor who doesn’t like us. A public who distrusts us and is unappreciative of ours sacrifice. Bosses and fellow officers that will toss us under the buss in a heartbeat. A Criminal Justice system that is apparently against the “Good Guys”.

Until the climate changes, it’s just “What happened? Ok, here’s your report. Go to the Court House to get a warrant, have a nice day.” I’ll go out of my way for a fellow Cop, and their family, but very little else. For me, its just not worth the stress, aggravation, or bullshit that’s blatantly stacked against us.

that sucks...ok, lets hear it from all the dogs about how your gonna get crucified everytime you get into a footchase now. this guy will be fine.. he wont have to pay 138000.. take it from me, In a court case I was in(shooting) I was ordered to pay 375,000 punitive 5 years ago. After an appeal hearing to the 7th circuit I didnt have to pay a dime. They will appeal it and the copper will be fine. Just like the dics in chicago are in the process of appealing thier punitive award they will end up fine too.... ok dogs, lets hear it.. tell me how im all wrong.. sorry to tell you though, Im right on this one..been there done that.

Let us examine the least common denominator here: Lawyers. Judges are nothing more than lawyers with robes. Legislators make laws to protect themselves. The poster who stated that we need tort reform hit the nail right on the head. The only ones really benefitting from these frivolous lawsuits are the bottom feeding lawyers. It's a Ponzi scheme and there's no outrage from the masses because they believe in the BS scam of a system. People need to wake up and get educated on the issues.

Hey Three Bars, Hey Dumb fuck, I don't come to work to be sued, then roll the dice to see if the appeals court affirms my having to give some mutt a nickel of my hard earned money for doing my job. I don't need the aggravation

So if you think I am a dog for coming to work on time and everyday, handling my jobs and backing up everyone I can, you can come to the 013th district and ask for the biggest dog on third watch and we can discuss it like men.

Unless an officer is the victim, I have had a no foot chase policy for years along with a no vehicle pursuit policy and a general no proactive policing policy. When I am asked if I am working that day, I state “No, I am not working, but I do have to show up!”

Don't chase, don't shoot, don't arrest. Ho home safe and sound and with your family's finances intact. Let the attorney's go out there and police the city. My police car is for decoration. Never once in over 25 years did I ever get sued for not chasing or not shooting or not arresting someone.

Never once did I have to depend on an appeals court to wipe out a punitive damages award. It is much too late in the game to ever take that chance.

Sound like somethings missing. He shot an unarmed man. They frown upon that ,unless he just killed someone .Theres more to that.

It is ABSOLUTELY reasonable and justifiable to shoot unarmed people based on the totality of the circumstances, dont jump to conclusions citizens, ive come close to shooting dozens of unarmed shitheads and probably should have, EVERY ONE of them would have been justified because of the information at hand/what was given to me by YOU the citizens or my dispatcher and the shitheads actons or failure to comply with my orders, I assure you. DO NOT jump to conclusions due to the fact that AFTER we shoot someone he happens to be unarmed. it takes a millisecond to die. 99.99% of people shot by police are CRIMINALS who were going to/had hurt someone NOW, or the stupidest people on earth who dont/wont/cant listen, think lawful orders while our pointing guns at them dont apply to them and shouldnt be walking around anyway. Unless you have done this job, you will NEVER comprehend this idea, which by the way is perfectly legal. Yes the police shooting people that happen to be unarmed is perfectly legal. There is alot the public does not know, and never will. It makes me sick when someone cries " oh no the police executed an unarmed man." ultra liberal jury/judge in this case, same people responsible for the current destruction of our great nation.

Oh and you know there's going to be a Foot Chase video or on line training for CPD soon. Put that in the Totally Useless pile of all the other STUPID and USELESS training that we MUST take. NIMS holy crap what a joke!! All that so we can se what a REAL city is supposed to do in the event of disaster. HAZMAT Hahaha "squad get fire over here" gee that was hard... Oh my favorite TARA Hahahahahaha!!! enough said on that one.. Can't wait to retire!!!

Nice story but having been there you left out all the years of thinking, "What is going to happen?" All the years of, "Should I sell my home?" "Should I buy anything?". All the years of having a judgment on my credit report. Your outcome was good however; you left out all the middle part. Best advice for everyone here is be safe and careful out there people. The sharks are out to eat you.

Some Departments and/or unions indemnify their members against punitive damages as long as no law was broken. One can buy their own insurance but I never understood why FOP didn't try to offer us group insurance against this nonsense. It can be and SHOULD BE done. Even though I retired this year, I carry a $ million coverage as part of my homeowner"s policy in case I shoot a poor misunderstood soul who fails to turn his life around at my expense. Seriously, write/call the FOP and scream at them, start calling insurance companies and tell them you may be able to get them a big group policy. If police elsewhere can do this why not Chicago? For a few dollars a month, one can be the police.

that sucks...ok, lets hear it from all the dogs about how your gonna get crucified everytime you get into a footchase now. this guy will be fine.. he wont have to pay 138000.. take it from me, In a court case I was in(shooting) I was ordered to pay 375,000 punitive 5 years ago. After an appeal hearing to the 7th circuit I didnt have to pay a dime. They will appeal it and the copper will be fine. Just like the dics in chicago are in the process of appealing thier punitive award they will end up fine too.... ok dogs, lets hear it.. tell me how im all wrong.. sorry to tell you though, Im right on this one..been there done that.

Well as long as you say I will be okay... I guess I will go for it...MORON!!!! Even if I will be vindicated in the end the IF part and the years of waiting to find out IF I am vindicated are not WORTH IT to me... You go ahead all star and be Da REAL POLICE!! I'll stick to my own plan... WOOF WOOF!

Don't chase, don't shoot, don't arrest. Ho home safe and sound and with your family's finances intact. Let the attorney's go out there and police the city. My police car is for decoration. Never once in over 25 years did I ever get sued for not chasing or not shooting or not arresting someone.

i dont know what line of thinking you come from but sometimes in order to go home safe you have shoot, chase or arrest to ensure your safety or your partners....just sayin

that sucks...ok, lets hear it from all the dogs about how your gonna get crucified everytime you get into a footchase now. this guy will be fine.. he wont have to pay 138000.. take it from me, In a court case I was in(shooting) I was ordered to pay 375,000 punitive 5 years ago. After an appeal hearing to the 7th circuit I didnt have to pay a dime. They will appeal it and the copper will be fine. Just like the dics in chicago are in the process of appealing thier punitive award they will end up fine too.... ok dogs, lets hear it.. tell me how im all wrong.. sorry to tell you though, Im right on this one..been there done that.

10/31/2010 12:24:00 AM

you seem pretty confident there tough guy? i bet you were shitting yourself in court when the jury came back liable for you punitively for 375k. but 5 yrs down the road you were lucky enough the appeal went your way. all fine and dandy but maybe some day you lose that appeal or it doesnt get paid on your behalf? then what you gonna do? i just spent a week in federal court. as the defendant. not a great feeling at all. what should have been an easy win turned out to be a fiasco because the federal court system is biased against cpd. luckily i had a good jury that was smart enough to see my partner and i being railroaded by the judge. feel free to take my place on any other lawsuit that may come my way...

Good for you super cop. Go out there and keep chasing and arresting and calling the rest of us dogs.

___________________________________

I thought I told you to stop bloging and embarassing yourself??

Doing your "job" means shit or get off the pot. Don't stand by watching things escalate while you "keep from being sued". You need to move on to another career. Your retirement star should come with a bill. A bill of all the money you should pay other Officers for finishing what you failed to do. Every cop, who had to respond to a job you wouldn't, took the chance of getting your lawsuit or even injured. This job is a game. Anyone can be sued. How many are law suits are legit? You can be sued for doing nothing. Read the news lately? I can't explain this job to you any better. How will you be remembered. Everyone on CPD is happy to be rid of your dead weight. Good luck on retiring from a career of doing nothing but causing others to carry your load! You must be so proud of yourself. I bet you wore the cleanest, best pressed uniform and shiniest shoes. Tell me, did u get the appearance award? Only one reason you can wear that uniform for a week straight without changing.

You know, reading the nonsense here about a cop having to come off of $138,000.00 from a foot chase with a felon who refused to comply with the officer's demands that he keep his hands visible, it just makes me SICK. I thank God that He gave me good health and the ability to walk away from this thankless job after 28 years and my health care squared away thanks to the FOP. There is simply NO WAY I would opt for a career in law enforcement on a local level today. The civil courts and juries have just made this job too hard to do today with any sense of wanting to go out there and do battle with the many evils awaiting you all on a daily basis.I was never a dog, by the way, detested them, and would never work in a beat car with one, but I have to say, now that I'm gone, I've seen the light. You have no choice now but to put on the proverbial 'horse-blinders' and only deal with what's directly in front of you, or what comes over the radio---nothing else. I know the citizens won't like it, and as a new 'civilian' ex-cop living in Chicago, I don't like it either, but you've gotta do what you've gotta do to protect yourselves and your families. Whatever major purchases you make (home, new car), make sure they are someone else's name (spouse, parents, whatever). May God bless and look out for each and every one of you. To the men & women of the 003rd District, keep your heads up! I worked there many years ago, and it was a good place to work in back then. Again, God bless you all, and stay safe. Keep your eyes on the (retire healthy!) prize.

to three bars and a starI had a star and almost two bars when I retired

Long after he retired, A guy from my district was ordered to pay about 90 thousand.

Long story short He was ordered to pay after he retired The court learned that he tried to hide some assets and whistled him into courtAfter a scolding from the judge and coming very close to going to jailHe had to pay

Im just sayin

10/31/2010 04:23:00 AM

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I know you're "just sayin" but how about a couple of details so we can learn something - something NOT to do - from this stupid fucking site

all you fucking absolute fucking morons say is "fuck this fuck that" - stupid motherfuckers - why don't we get down to the nitty gritty a little bit and learn exactly what the cop did.

let's boil it down a little before everyone determines the cop simply got screwed - what EXACTLY did he do?

it was the same thing when Mearday happened, no one wanted to look at exactly what happened - and thus, the new guys never knew EXACTLY what happened and EXACTLY what they should not do. Everyone in 25 said "fuck this fuck that fuck everyone" - but when you really looked at what happened you realized how absolutely moronic the cops actions were

three bars and a star said...that sucks...ok, lets hear it from all the dogs about how your gonna get crucified everytime you get into a footchase now. this guy will be fine.. he wont have to pay 138000.. take it from me, In a court case I was in(shooting) I was ordered to pay 375,000 punitive 5 years ago. After an appeal hearing to the 7th circuit I didnt have to pay a dime. They will appeal it and the copper will be fine. Just like the dics in chicago are in the process of appealing thier punitive award they will end up fine too.... ok dogs, lets hear it.. tell me how im all wrong.. sorry to tell you though, Im right on this one..been there done that.10/31/2010 12:24:00 AM

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You've been on for a long time - WHEN did this happen and do you think they would negate the punitive damages in today's climate??

Seriously, please post what year the appellate court struck down the punitive damage award. I'll be looking.

Sometime we are in the wrong. Not saying so in this particular case, but sometimes we are. If i screw up and admit it - I don't want to oew $100K - if an accountant or a tax preparer screws up the worst that happens is they break a copy machine or spill their coffee.

Anyone still policing needs their head examined. The message is clear. Make the report and onto the next job. Repeat.

10/31/2010 12:12:00 AM

I completely agree with you 100%. I have seen how even if we are right, we can be wrong. And this is the fault of society at large. On the one hand, they want us to get the bad guys, on the other hand, they want to screw us up.

For example, recently, we responded to a person with a gun call (man in a grey jogging pants). We saw a male fitting the exact description and pulled our guns out and ordered him to show us his hands. He refused. He had them behind his back and refused to do so. My partner asked again and he refused. I closed in quickly on him and grabbed him so he couldn't reach for anything.

On the one hand, if this guy wasn't going to show me his hands, I was going to shoot him, but in the back of my head, I kept thinking "you may go to jail, just take your chances".

This is all fucked up. Really fucked up. We are expected to perform our duties, but we get into those damn if you do and damn if you don't situations.

that sucks...ok, lets hear it from all the dogs about how your gonna get crucified everytime you get into a footchase now. this guy will be fine.. he wont have to pay 138000.. take it from me, In a court case I was in(shooting) I was ordered to pay 375,000 punitive 5 years ago. After an appeal hearing to the 7th circuit I didnt have to pay a dime. They will appeal it and the copper will be fine. Just like the dics in chicago are in the process of appealing thier punitive award they will end up fine too.... ok dogs, lets hear it.. tell me how im all wrong.. sorry to tell you though, Im right on this one..been there done that.

10/31/2010 12:24:00 AM

No STUPID. You are not right. You are wrong. Don't dare call me a dog (I don't need to tell the world of my accomplishments like you i.e. "three bars"), but I have learned the hard way what happens when you go the extra mile.

I learned from my experience the following; in the end go out there and support your police brothers and sisters and the rest is not worth it. The good citizens can have their HS ****** report and I can go out to the next job.

Some Departments and/or unions indemnify their members against punitive damages as long as no law was broken. One can buy their own insurance but I never understood why FOP didn't try to offer us group insurance against this nonsense. It can be and SHOULD BE done. Even though I retired this year, I carry a $ million coverage as part of my homeowner"s policy in case I shoot a poor misunderstood soul who fails to turn his life around at my expense. Seriously, write/call the FOP and scream at them, start calling insurance companies and tell them you may be able to get them a big group policy. If police elsewhere can do this why not Chicago? For a few dollars a month, one can be the police.

10/31/2010 11:41:00 AM

I tried to put this forward at FOP meetings. i was told it can't be done, no insurance company will write a policy protecting against punitive damages at work.

If anyone thinks otherwise, please name the insurance company and post the info.

Punitive damages is also not dischargeable by bankruptcy.

The city had a law passed in the Illinois legislature prohibiting the paying of punitive damages against police officers by the municipality. They got themselves out from under.

It is not guaranteed or automatic that an officer can get out of paying punitive damages on appeal. I have spoken to officers who have had to write the check. That doesn't feel very good. And once awarded it won't go away. they can't touch your pension as long as you are still working. But house, investments, savings, paycheck, deferred comp, all fair game.

Never once in over 25 years did I ever get sued for not chasing or not shooting or not arresting someone. ---------------------------------- Thanks for leaving Police work for everybody else buddy. Im sure that was 25 years of Coppers returning to your jobs to "do the job" you wouldn't. Stop blogging and embarassing yourself....

10/31/2010 04:41:00 AM

You ever step into federal court and have your name on a complaint for civil rights violations and face the possibility of paying out your own cash?

I have.

No embarrassment at all. No punitive damages awarded either. The potential liability we face every day with no guarantee of complete indemnification, even when we are right, has me acting very very carefully while on duty.

"At the heart of the case was the argument that the Police Department should have established written rules and provided more training on foot pursuits..."

Sounds like the officer should snap out, bust a window at his house or something to trigger that midnight telephone call and be hospitalized with intense PTSD resulting from being plunged into an life-threatening incident the Department did not adequately train him to handle. Massive countersuit!

You can stay inside and catch up on your stamp albums, and play with the kids, etc. -- need a break anyway -- but just don't get filmed doing heavy outdoor remodeling, hunting, riding Harleys during this time. Discretion, please.

11:41 You are 100% wrong on your homeowners policy claim. All the million dollar umbrella covers is extends the limits of your homeowners policy to one million dollars on any claim covered by the policy Unfortunately any job related or business claims are not covered Any po who thinks he is covered by either his homeowners or umbrella coverage for a job related incident is wrong Also punitive damages aren't covered by the insurance Punitive damages are given separately to punish, not have an insurance company pay. Thats why of some of the pos cases the city pays the judgement and not the punitive because it is to punish the po. Also drs and my wife is a nurse and has nurses malpractice insurance, but there is no police officer malpratice insurance. Thats why the FOP cant get a group policy because one doesnt exist If you believe when you are working, your homeowners policy covers you, you are mistaken

Anonymous said... Some Departments and/or unions indemnify their members against punitive damages as long as no law was broken. One can buy their own insurance but I never understood why FOP didn't try to offer us group insurance against this nonsense. It can be and SHOULD BE done. Even though I retired this year, I carry a $ million coverage as part of my homeowner"s policy in case I shoot a poor misunderstood soul who fails to turn his life around at my expense. Seriously, write/call the FOP and scream at them, start calling insurance companies and tell them you may be able to get them a big group policy. If police elsewhere can do this why not Chicago? For a few dollars a month, one can be the police.

10/31/2010 11:41:00 AM

Illinois law prohibits the payment of punitive damages by insurance companies or employers. However the city does pay if there is a settlement or there is an award of compensatory damages. If you want to be protected by an insurance policy then you would need to change Illinois law, but that would be about as easy as making police officers exempt from lawsuits like judges and states attorneys.

11:41 You are 100% wrong on your homeowners policy claim. All the million dollar umbrella covers is extends the limits of your homeowners policy to one million dollars on any claim covered by the policy Unfortunately any job related or business claims are not covered Any po who thinks he is covered by either his homeowners or umbrella coverage for a job related incident is wrong Also punitive damages aren't covered by the insurance Punitive damages are given separately to punish, not have an insurance company pay. Thats why of some of the pos cases the city pays the judgement and not the punitive because it is to punish the po. Also drs and my wife is a nurse and has nurses malpractice insurance, but there is no police officer malpratice insurance. Thats why the FOP cant get a group policy because one doesnt exist If you believe when you are working, your homeowners policy covers you, you are mistaken

10/31/2010 06:53:00 PM

It has been suggested to the FOP to get a self-insurance plan going whereby officers would pay a small amount into a fund meant to pay punitive damage claims. The problems associated with deciding who gets paid and who doesn't would open them up to more lawsuits.

Never got off the ground.

In today's anti-police climate here in Chicago an officer is open to liability that would drive a sane person out of business.

No lawyer would take on the amount of liability we do regularly without rock solid indemnification coverage. It is up to the individual officer to decide how aggressive to be.

Some of those officers who don't seem to do much any more might have faced that possibility and decided to protect the family finances instead of putting it all on the line for a department that will hang an officer out to dry in a second.

It is ABSOLUTELY reasonable and justifiable to shoot unarmed people based on the totality of the circumstances--------------------------------What is reasonable and justifiable in civil court long after the fact is not what the cop thinks when he has to take action, or the story ginned up after the fact to justify his actions (which is what a lot of people think happens in odd cases like this).

Unfortunately, a few very bad apples have contributing to making it tough on the well behaved cops trying to do their jobs.

This is not that much different from people being sued because a guy trying to burglarize their home is harmed by slipping on an icey sidewalk, or other similar nonsense.

Very few law abiding people trust cops any more like they once did, and are no longer willing to give them the automatic benefit of the doubt that trust used to gain them.

I don't know why that is. I have a few thoughts on it, but nothing that I can point to with any certainty.

For example, recently, we responded to a person with a gun call (man in a grey jogging pants). We saw a male fitting the exact description and pulled our guns out and ordered him to show us his hands. He refused. He had them behind his back and refused to do so. My partner asked again and he refused. I closed in quickly on him and grabbed him so he couldn't reach for anything. --------------------------------So was he armed?

Did he refuse? Or was he so startled at being confronted in this way that he was unable to comply.