You keep talking about these people coming over and "forcing" their culture on the rest of us. To me this point is completely without merit. What of the legal immigrants? They don't bring their culture with them? It's a completely baseless point and you really need to stop using it.

I bet the Sioux and Cherokees and Iroquois wish they'd had Minutemen patrolling back in the day, they'd have shot our ancestors' white asses right back to Europe.

Personally I just can't get all worked up about this. Maybe my country's going to hell in a bucket, but I think it's a cop-out to blame that on some poor illegal immigrant who's trying to live a better life. Being poor doesn't mean they're bad. And I make the distinction because being poor is likely what limits their access to legal immigration into the country.

But maybe it's me, I'm a Left-thinking guy. I like poor people. We know what the Right thinks of the poor...look how well the Bush administration handled the Katrina situation.

And what about those 2 buckaroo border patrol guys down in Texas, that shot that guy in the back? And then lied about it...but now we've got bleeding-heart protests for them. Hell, even John Walsh threw them a pity-party on America's Most Wanted...them and the other guy that was popping away at the rear end of a car and shot somebody - funny how these big brave cowboys are always under attack from the mean ol' Mexicans, yet the Mexicans are shot in the back? Hmm...

If I'm not mistaken we've already had this exact same discussion with most of the same players, and after four pages I can't see that anything productive will come of it this time around. Does anyone actually have any real facts to offer and discuss in a rational manner? If not, don't expect this thread to stay open much longer.

__________________"I can't change the world, but I can change the world in me." - Bono

Justin, you've already mentioned your Latino origins & that your mum is from Guatemala etc...I presume then at some point, your family emmigrated to the US as you are in SF now.

I'm going to assume they did so legally but given your strong views on the whole business, would you have stopped them or allowed the minutemen-type folks to shoot them had they not been able to enter US legally?

Some Guatemalans (in Guatemala) do have a grudge after Mexico took the Yucatan from them and the British gave Belize their independence. Some in Guatemala also get annoyed when they are asked if they are mexican or speak mexican. I am also mad when I hear Mexico say they had CA, Utah, NM, AZ, Colorado and Nevada first. When there were hundreds of Indian Nations here before that were not part of any Aztec society, any Olmec or Toltec society. Sure the Spanish invaded and took land, but before the Spanish were defeated This land did not belong to Mexico.

And I just don't blame mexico for illegal immigration. We have Illegal aliens coming from all over the world.

There were no minute men back then.

I did bring facts from the Center for Immigration studies but it has not been accepted here.

Justin, I agree with you on most of this topic.It is true that illegal immigrants (no matter what country their from)cost American citizens BILLIONS.The only thing you can do is vote for the person who will do the job required.Why bother arguing with people who only put you down for an opinion.