"Average win rating of horde and alliance player: 50%."
Thats Blizzards line of bullshit to keep people happy. Alliance sure as hell are not winning 50% in Randoms, Alliance is dog shit players in random since MoP came out and have been getting curbed stomped regularly. I am willing to bet real money Horde are winning 75% in randoms. In Cata it was much better, in Cata you could easily say win ratio was 50/50, but not in MoP.

I've only played a handful of BGs in this expansion, but in those handful, Alliance has won many more than they've lost.

"Average win rating of horde and alliance player: 50%."
Thats Blizzards line of bullshit to keep people happy. Alliance sure as hell are not winning 50% in Randoms, Alliance is dog shit players in random since MoP came out and have been getting curbed stomped regularly. I am willing to bet real money Horde are winning 75% in randoms. In Cata it was much better, in Cata you could easily say win ratio was 50/50, but not in MoP.

Im willing to take you up on that bet, 100$ or whatever it amounts to in your/mine local currency, burden of proof falls on you ofcourse. Deal?

lolala - I guess it's reached the point where we should agree to disagree. You visit a hooker for sex - you pay the hooker you get your sex you move on.

...

If paid sex only always worked like that. Unfortunately, it doesn't always work like that (1, 2), and a lot of women who work in this industry are forced to do so.

Some people pay Blizzard just to pvp. When they are greeted with armys of bots in pvp it ruins their experience. [...]

Like I explained 3 times now, using OQ does not remove the bots from BGs, not even in the limited edition of experience world of the OQ user. Just because you use OQ doesn't mean your enemy team doesn't have bots. It doesn't affect that at all. So it boils down to "I want to PvP with humans, and I don't mind if my enemies are bots, I don't mind if I faceroll my enemy as long as I play with humans". Plus fighting bots is hardly still PvP the more so if your side is Player but the enemy is AI (Environment).

That's a post from me without mentioning the bottomfeeding et al.

Like I said before, if blizz doesn't like it - it won't be around for much longer - and then all the pvpers that hate bots can be miserable together again, because after all misery does enjoy company.

Well, Blizzard doesn't like the addon. They said that much, they said it is against the spirit of the game. But can they deal with the addon, can can they improve structured, low-entry PvP? And in the meantime what will the players who are not using this addon do?

The average player will notice they're playing with and against bots. I've done some testing with Soulwell and you can be 100% by the movement of a character to notice if it is a bot or not because they specifically move from a certain spot to the Soulwell, wait the exact same time (following by each other) and then move back to the very spot they were standing. At least that's how it seems to be with HB (I never used any bot so I cannot verify it is HB).

So they will detect it. And what would the response be then?

Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan

You're missing the fact that its not rated. They don't get CP or rating for the gear. Just honor and a small amount of CP. I think you are over exaggerating what they are doing. The bots are the big problem. It sucks losing to a full enemy team just BARELY and you have 2 bots on your team. Anyone is free to use that add-on besides bots. Even bads, even low geared players, even new players.

Like I said, you're still actively fighting bots on the opposing team just as much (if not more, since they also use OQ). The vt chat likely goes like this: "the bots are going for Lumber Mill". DK #1 "Slowing them" *remorseless winter, howling blast, etc*. Being a human against bots is already faceroll; coordinating it, making it even more of a joke which lead to me questioning if you can still call such battles PvP.

You know just as well as I do that bad, new, and low geared players are both unlikely to install such an addon, as well as unlikely to get accepted. I know full well it isn't rated. I also know full well it is bottomfeeding, not competitive, and HP grinding. But you don't need a BiS PvP HP gearset to start in rated BG. How any human being can enjoy playing a league of 97% win rating I will never be able to understand since I cannot fathom it, and cannot empathize being in a position like that, much less advocating it as the next best thing since buttered bread. Is it the WoW player actually feels awesome from a 97% win rating, as if it is their skill at work achieving that?

Originally Posted by Svarbald

Try actually going into a random BG, Alliance is filled with idiots who have no gear and no clue how to play pvp, dont target/silence/CC healers, try to kill prot warriors and DKs with an enemy healer standing next to them, never use CC of any kind and attack random targets so all your teams dps is spread out across the entire enemy team and not focused.

FYI I have the Double Agent achievement, and can attest the horde is also filled with idiots [...].

I have been encountering tons of Horde 5 man premades in random BG's. Horde DEFINITELY use it for randoms.

"Average win rating of horde and alliance player: 50%."
Thats Blizzards line of bullshit to keep people happy. Alliance sure as hell are not winning 50% in Randoms, Alliance is dog shit players in random since MoP came out and have been getting curbed stomped regularly. I am willing to bet real money Horde are winning 75% in randoms. In Cata it was much better, in Cata you could easily say win ratio was 50/50, but not in MoP.

Wow, you are so full of bs. Either you are just an angry horde kid that is trolling trying to bash on alliance players, a very bad player who goes afk at the first sign of loss, or just abit simple-minded and you don't realize that a people tend to forget when they are winning, and remember when they are losing.
i have played over 2k bg's as alliance, almost always alone, and my win % is way over 50%.
In MoP i've had even more wins than losses than during cata/wotlk/bc i feel.

But you were saying that alliance has got worse in mop. I wonder how it is possible for a bunch of people to become suddenly bad at pvp overnight?
Anyways, i've played alot of bg's in mop since i stopped raiding and i think alliance is winning alot more than 50%. I have a horde friend (bg hero) who faction changed from horde to alliance because he was tired of "idiots who have no gear and no clue how to play pvp"

Here, take a look at my stats from the new bg's, since i cannot see how many wins ive gotten in mop, these atleast are 100% mop since its the new bg's.

Temple of Kotmogu battles 62
Temple of Kotmogu victories 46

Silvershard Mines battles 49
Silvershard Mines victories 31

Ever thought maybe it's just you who is not pulling your weight? or maybe you are an awesome pvp'er in the mid who just wants to do alot of damage and kb's and ignore the bg objectives, then rage when it's a loss?
Maybe i have big win % since i ask people to call incs, tell where efc is running, run flags, hold orbs, cap bases etc.?

OQ is not against TOS. It is against blizzards new found "spirit of the game" so they say. Literally all OQ does is have group leaders queue their group at as close to the same time as humanly possible and check times of when their queue has popped. I've been doing this with vent with "queueing in 3..2..1..queue" and the group leaders saying queue pop the second it pops long before OQ and consistently getting every group into the BG. That's what OQ does. Is blizzard going to ban vent?

How is OQ any different than a 5 boxer? Blue post says, "coordinated group has a huge advantage." I'd say a 5 boxing frost DK has a huge advantage in that they are all on one target which is otherwise impossible in a group of randoms. Going to ban multiboxers now too? Silliness.

OQ is not against TOS. It is against blizzards new found "spirit of the game" so they say. Literally all OQ does is have group leaders queue their group at as close to the same time as humanly possible and check times of when their queue has popped. I've been doing this with vent with "queueing in 3..2..1..queue" and the group leaders saying queue pop the second it pops long before OQ and consistently getting every group into the BG. That's what OQ does. Is blizzard going to ban vent?

How is OQ any different than a 5 boxer? Blue post says, "coordinated group has a huge advantage." I'd say a 5 boxing frost DK has a huge advantage in that they are all on one target which is otherwise impossible in a group of randoms. Going to ban multiboxers now too? Silliness.

Premade != premade. 5 boxer and group of x-realm of 5 is akin to each other, roughly the same. But 35 IoC premade is a different league than a 5 boxer. Blizz said that the max of premade is 5. And that's it. You can work around it -> not within spirit of game. You can mbox with 10 -> No w/SoG. Mbox with 40 -> No w/SoG. Mbox 3 -> morally OK. OQ 3 -> morally OK. OQ 10 -> No w/SoG.

Like I explained 3 times now, using OQ does not remove the bots from BGs, not even in the limited edition of experience world of the OQ user. Just because you use OQ doesn't mean your enemy team doesn't have bots. It doesn't affect that at all. So it boils down to "I want to PvP with humans, and I don't mind if my enemies are bots, I don't mind if I faceroll my enemy as long as I play with humans". Plus fighting bots is hardly still PvP the more so if your side is Player but the enemy is AI (Environment).

I have no doubts in my mind that if War Games gave commensurate (or even mediocre) honor/conquest rewards, people would organize groups for them in order to play in a bot-free environment. Lots of people who use OQ want bots on the enemy team no less than on their own team. The problems are that you can't control the enemy team, and that nobody does War Games. Fix the latter, and then people would have the option to form custom matches against players, just like I can form a 5-man guild dungeon group of handpicked players, or like players in games such as Halo can create their own online custom matches. We shouldn't need OQ to run a non-rated WSG with 10 handpicked players, as long as the other team has the same opportunity to handpick players our team does.

On my hunter Im always top three in damage and I dont AoE or fight in mid to get high damage numbers, I play smart, as a team member, I provide peels for heals, I shut down enemy healers, I chain CC with scatter, ice trap silence or wyvern sting, I dont fight in mid, I focus targets, switch my target to whoever more of my teammates are attacking unless its a tank or if a healer is free casting, I have decent gear, I use fire trap knock back in key places to secure caps.

So save that tired old troll "maybe its you", because its not me when the people I play with in randoms are wearing Cata leveling greens, ignore enemy healers, ignore our teams healers, and play bad in every respect to pvp.

Any addon that enables a full, organized Battleground group to queue against a randomly assembled group is creating a scenario where that coordinated group has a huge advantage. That is not in the spirit of the experience we want to provide in the normal Battleground queue. Playing with friends is fun and important, but it shouldn't come at the expense of the spirit of the game nor the fun of others.

The normal Battleground queue is for players to jump in and play against other players in a similar situation. We realize that it's not a perfect system, and we're still looking at ways to improve normal Battleground queues further. Regardless, it's not meant for organized groups to "pug stomp" and get quick Honor. We have built in outlets for players that want to organize--if a competitive, social experience was really the goal, then there are clear ways to achieve that.

The ultimate effect that this kind of queuing has had is to drive players away from PvP. Perhaps it's been a long time since you've been in a random group, but a lot of players will see that they're up against a premade and simply quit. At best, they suffer through it. To an extent premade groups count on this. Heck, one of the popular addons announces opposing players that appear to have rage quit.

Addons aren’t really a viable solution for botting issues, but we do take those issues seriously and we'll continue our work on improvements to the Battleground system, including better ways to deal with botting and other exploitative gameplay.

Nowhere in any of that says that your account will be banned. Right now at 2:20 in the morning there is 26 premades going.

---------- Post added 2013-01-13 at 08:33 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Daxxarri

]In patch 5.1, we resolved some issues regarding how Addons interact with the Battleground queue system. It is no longer possible to automate queuing for standard or random Battlegrounds in groups larger than 5. We decided to make this change in order to improve the experience for all players who are queueing into random groups normally and expecting to face similarly random groups, only to find themselves crushed by a full team of coordinated opponents.

We understand that players want to enjoy coordinated team play, and we invite those players to queue into Rated Battlegrounds or play Wargames to have that experience. Players can continue to use Addons to queue for Rated Battlegrounds as well.

Well since OQ is not automated this post is invalid. Still, the post said nothing about banning.

Doing things that are against their rules usually means you can get banned for it. Not sure how that is hard to realize.

On my hunter Im always top three in damage and I dont AoE or fight in mid to get high damage numbers, I play smart, as a team member, I provide peels for heals, I shut down enemy healers, I chain CC with scatter, ice trap silence or wyvern sting, I dont fight in mid, I focus targets, switch my target to whoever more of my teammates are attacking unless its a tank or if a healer is free casting, I have decent gear, I use fire trap knock back in key places to secure caps.

So save that tired old troll "maybe its you", because its not me when the people I play with in randoms are wearing Cata leveling greens, ignore enemy healers, ignore our teams healers, and play bad in every respect to pvp.

Yes, it's all good. But you know what? there is definitely as many horde players doing that as alliance. There is no difference anymore between horde/alliance players. Im sure the majority plays both sides, or have been playing on both sides.
ATM there is maybe slightly more pvp-oriented players alliance side because of the human racial.

I stopped reading there. PvP is not about who does highest damage. Anyone who believes meters (or the end screen with most damage done) are a primary way to decide who did right is ignorant and doesn't understand what PvP is about: winning the war, not one fight. You can spec tank, defend one base in AB for 80% of the time alone, do barely any damage, and be a major role in the overall battle. Whereas at the moment you leave the base as last person you are a moron. No meter will show that though. No meter will show if you were a bridge fighting moron or if you efficiently used your toolkit while you were defending the base 3 v 5 being outnumbered. No meter will show whether you were able to communicate efficiently. Yet you try to use it as a base indicator with a huge disclaimer "I don't do A, B, C but do D, E, F" and even if you believe that is completely true without a shed of a doubt you still don't know the details about the other players.

Besides, your own experience doesn't matter in the statistic, and it isn't an official statistic from Blizzard it is one datamined by MMOC. Your experience is biased, and if it was an exception to the statistic it'd be statistically irrelevant. Its just confirmation bias, nothing more, nothing less. We all are aware our own experience is biased, that's why such a statistic is so interesting (whereas nobody gives a rat about yours).

Any addon that enables a full, organized Battleground group to queue against a randomly assembled group is creating a scenario where that coordinated group has a huge advantage.

The ops description:

It's an addon that finds premade groups for you

even has a 500 man ventrilo server available to use when organizing groups.

any gear or rating requirement that the leader

Please tell me, how this add on isn't exactly what the blue post refers to, technically its grouping random people, but its still a organized structure with a group of more than 4 people, and it clearly has a huge advantage

I've got something like 70+ games and 2 losses.

This isn't a "normal" battleground, Also

Please for the love of God read what your quoting before you post it, Especially if you're taking it out of context

Why dont you open your eyes and actually read before you flame him, as hes right with what he says and linking the blue post

Edit:

But I would like to see something like this add on installed so we can all enjoy a bot free BG, last few nights in WSG and TP been having teams with 7 bots in QQ

Im willing to take you up on that bet, 100$ or whatever it amounts to in your/mine local currency, burden of proof falls on you ofcourse. Deal?

Quoted the wrong person whoops I would take him up on the bet too.

Since I started keeping track and taking pvp more seriously I have won 194 and lost 74. It's an average so guess what - there will be a lot of people above and below 50%. Why is that so hard for you to understand? I have a friend who has won 88% on his Alliance toon.

Oh and oQueue is amazing for RBG's. My server is dead and a lot of my friends don't play or aren't interested in PVP especially RBG's/Arena so using oQueue to get in a team to build up rating is ace. I went from 0 to 1642 last night by winning 7 in a row.

It has been said repeatedly in this thread, and frankly this horse is beyond beaten. Queing for "randoms" with more than 5 is against the "spirit of the game". And by my own opinion a really cheap tactic for something that is already horribly easy.

However, oQueue is not solely responsible for this. It just supports a veriety of features. The queing of more than 5 can be coordinated without addons and accomplish the same thing. Breaking or Banning oQue does not solve this. Idiot mentality of anyone wanting to bypass the 5 person que limit for randoms is what needs to be broken. However these mouth breathers parents missed the opportunity to drown these social rejects at birth, so we are forced to deal with them.

oQue though is a GREAT tool for helping players find Rated BG's cross server and que with your team which is where organized groups are meant to compete.

Like I said banning oQue wont fix the issues of Bots or idiots who try to avoid them. Have faith though that Karma and their own stupidity (more likely) will weed these social failures from our society soon enough. Hooray for cheating idiots queing more than 5 Getting hit by a "BIG fuckin bus"!!

I haven't ran a BG by myself in a LONG time now. I went from a ~50% win (when single Queued), to about an ~85% when queuing with a group. I mainly group with my guild, but I do use oQueue on occasion.

oQueue is a REALLY great idea. I see a lot of people crying about how it's automated, or what not...but those people have never used it. Sure you can still technically get more than 5 of you in a BG... but that's not the addon doing it. In my guild we 5+ queue all the time. We're all in vent and we countdown queue. We're not exploiting a bug, not using an illegal addon, we just all hit the button at the same time. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

The one thing that does need to be broken is the Logitech G15 Keyboard interface (any with the LCD installed). When I hit random BG, it straight tells me what the BG is on the keyboard. While I've not done AV/Isle/Sota in months because of it.... It's pretty broken and needs to be taken out. Though it does get me an immediate slot in the BG group

I would also like to point out that ever since this mod became popular, my latency has shot up by nearly 200 points. Where as for about 4 years, on the same internet provider and computer, my latency was in the 95-100 range, now it's in the 400s.

I'm not sure if it's because Blizzard's server is now being overwhelmed with freaking... friend requests... but it does seem odd that latency has suddenly jumped, right around the time this mod has been gaining popularity.

I would also like to point out that ever since this mod became popular, my latency has shot up by nearly 200 points. Where as for about 4 years, on the same internet provider and computer, my latency was in the 95-100 range, now it's in the 400s.

I'm not sure if it's because Blizzard's server is now being overwhelmed with freaking... friend requests... but it does seem odd that latency has suddenly jumped, right around the time this mod has been gaining popularity.

Try disabling the addon and checking your latency. Mine remains unchanged by using this addon. It might be your ISP.

I meet only one problem whe used this addon.Mine second account which is in mine ID list and have same batletag name but different numbers get spammed from the account where i use QQ
Anyway i manage to invite couple of BN tags and we group everyday without need to use this addon
But still mine opinion is that organised groups with more than 3 playes have no place in randoms.The queue himself should meet you with other 5 man groups combine 2-3 of them in each team that things will be much more better first you will meet a some kind of challenge not just 80% bots from opposite team