An artists impression of the nightmare scenario apparently sending shudders of fear through the spines of the Governing Body

There’s a phrase known as Poe’s Law.

If you’ve never heard of it, it’s an adage used to describe a situation where a person or organisation has become so absurd in thier actions or words that they have become indistinguishable from a satirical parody of that person or organisation.

Watchtower has apparently chosen to start 2018 by becoming a walking talking example of Poe’s Law, with the November 2017 study article, which all congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses studied last weekend. In an article discussing the use of song during worship, the following comment is made in paragraph 17:

The change of the title “Guard Your Heart” to “We Guard Our Hearts” was most considerate. Why? In the audience at our meetings, assemblies, and conventions are many new ones, interested ones, young ones, and sisters who by singing the words would be put in the awkward position of telling others what to do. So the title and the lyrics were modified.

Now, this came to my attention when I saw it on the exjw reddit forums, which is an online community for many exJW’s to come together, support each other, and discuss issues related to JW and exJW life.

My honest reaction when I first read it was; “Oh that’s a funny piece of parody by someone poking fun at the kind of silly sexist gibberish the Governing Body might put into the Watchtower if they were just a little bit crazier than they actually are. Ha ha ha! Good one guys!”

Then I looked again.

And realised it actually was from a real life Watchtower study article, that was being studied in real life, by real life Jehovah’s Witnesses, because the real life Watchtower organisation had both written the article and changed the song.

And my jaw dropped.

The dangers of women singing instructions at men

Why is this Watchtower article crazy?

Well, where to even start?

There are a whole host of issues one could go into, everything from the insane inconsistency in how this rule appears to have been applied, to the lunacy of thinking that singing song lyrics amounts to any kind of conflict of authority, to the deeply ingrained sexist, demeaning and controlling attitude towards women that such a statement belies.

JW Survey founder Lloyd Evans does a deep dive here that explores these issues in more depth.

But I’ll be honest, the overwhelming response ricocheting around my astonished brain was this:

Who on earth lies awake at night worrying that Sisters might be singing instructions at Brothers, and then decides it’s wise to expend time and effort to rewrite entire songs in order to avoid such a terrible disaster from happening? How insecure and feeble must a Brother be to feel that his precious “scriptural authority” is somehow threatened because a woman is singing song lyrics that state “guard your heart?”

I mean, it’s not as if Watchtower doesn’t actually have real problems to worry about. Rampant child sex abuse scandals, large numbers of deaths from refusal of blood transfusions, growth grinding to a halt across the globe and even reversing in many countries, an increasingly under-educated and impoverished Witness population with a significant amount of depression and mental illness. Surely those issues are more important?

But no!

The pressing issue here is that the sensitive, fragile egos of Witness males might be damaged by the shocking, horrifying spectre of a woman singing lyrics. That is apparently an urgent issue that requires an investment of time and resources to put right, and then an additional Watchtower study on-top of that to ensure that everyone is aware of the reasons for the change.

You know what? I’ll bet 90% of Witness males, despite being indoctrinated into Watchtower’s rather sexist view of female subjection and headship, have never even for one moment been offended by the fact that Sisters were singing the old lyrics. Genuinely. Even when viewed through the eyes of a believing JW, this is simply not a problem that needed solving. Rather, it has the feel of something that has come out of the crazy lunatic fringe of Watchtower thinking, presumably from the same bizarre mindset that spawned the infamous banning of tight pants and the creation of Sparlock the Warrior Wizard.

Whatever the origin of this craziness, I draw some comfort from the fact many otherwise believing Witnesses will probably also think that this whole thing is a bit daft, because I know I would have, and I know many of my JW friends would have as well. Its often the steady drip-drip-drip of this senseless and unreasonable behaviour from Watchtower leaders who are supposed to know better that gradually erodes the faith of more reasonable minds, and causes people to start asking questions of Watchtower to which Watchtower has no answers.

In the meantime, perhaps I could suggest that Watchtower scrap “We Guard Our Hearts” in its entirety and replace it with a song more suitable for delicate Governing Body sensitivities? Something like this?

“You know I didn’t even think about that. I’m so glad the slave is looking out for us aka doing our thinking for us”

Unfortunately this will be the reaction of a large percentage of JW’s. A petty and ridiculous statement. I would say even for watchtower but we’re past that point. There’s nothing they can write that would surprise me now.

I usualy take my jw wife to sunday meeting but this one was so asurd i just dropped her off and picked her up after..i cant stand the new ” christian life and ministry mid week rubbish .now the WT studies have reached a new level of crazyness

@ John Freeman: That’s because the Governing Body is so desperate right now that they are grasping at any “crazy” straw to appear “Theocratic” and as if they have any type of divine approval or control over the congregation…even such absurd tidbits as this!
In reality their world is right now crashing down all around them with impending doom just around the corner in such a magnitude that even they can’t even comprehend in their wildest fantasies: http://www.watchtowercriminals.blogspot.com

Personally I love this latest bit of craziness, for the simple reason that some sisters surely must think, boy oh boy, this is happening here in the old world, WHATS IT GONNA BE LIKE IN THE NEW SYSTEM, when the men have total control. Note to G/B – keep pushing the sisters around, you might not get the reaction your expecting, you might just get a shock & see them start to revolt. Just saying !!

I have an idea of why this song was singled out. The first line is “O guard your hearts, you sons of God,”. Now as every JW knows the term “sons of God” refers to only the anointed ones. So perhaps the GB members (as the most prominent anointed) were the ones most offended by thinking sisters were telling them what to do.

The F&D Slave giving “proper food” at the proper time again. lol I remember when I was an active JW it seemed about once a year they would come up with some crazy WT article that had nothing to do with reality. It was like the GB would make stuff up out of thin air or “CREATE” an issue that never existed just because they can! It was the same when I was an Elder and everything was going fine in the Congregation then all of a sudden some over zealous Elder would say we need to have a meeting bc some young person grew his hair to long or he had joined a sports team or he was seen hanging round fellow students at high school who were not JW’s. I personally think it was some way of just making themselves feel important. To me it was nonsense 90% of the time.

Every year or so the WT comes out with Crazy articles that have no relevance. Can you imagine trying to place that magazine at a door or with your bible study and trying to logically explain how it is relevant these days? Cray is what Crazy does!

That’s exactly what I felt, although I was the young person who would be getting picked on.
It was as if these small men decided that they needed to put you down so they’d come up with something to ‘counsel’ you on; too many vacations, working too much and I even got “you smile and laugh too much”, if you can believe that!
I can’t see smart and independent women sticking around in this cult. What’s the point?!?

@fooledmeonce. When I was a JW I used to call the WT the “Religion of no fun”! I would say it jokingly but in my heart I meant it. The WT offers nothing for its young ones except “Pioneering”? No Sports,No competition, No Parties ( unless you study the WT ) no education, No Girl friends or Boy friends,No Holidays, no proms, no dating, no dancing, No going to concerts unless you are chaperoned by some old fart! For real they offer nothing for young ones to do or participate in but if a normal JW kid starts to have a little fun he is counseled to the max about something.
Only thing they want you to do is Pioneer to make more JW’s for the WT. AT least other religions offer education, Sports activities, scholarships,
and don’t judge you for being normal. Again the WT is the Religion of no fun and BOREDOM.

Right on,now the “spiritual fruitage”GB/the Org displays in all this proves what Christ said”by their Fruits you will recognize THEM”.(not God,He has nothing to do with THIS crap).So glad I faded and don’t get exposed in-person to this vomit from”Spiritual drunkards”,w/secret U.N. pact,horrific child abuse in Pedo-paradiseland,human rights violators,etc…but they’re not quite done yet!watch as the beating continues/gets worse.They show a callous,harsh (and mysogenic)super-control,all reveals their lust for power.

Exactly so! More of the same “gnat straining and camel gulping”
Phariseeic nonsensence that this cult is so famous for. Jesus have pity. Are these people so blinded by the purple haze of idiotic indoctrination that they refuse to see or are their heads so firmly planted up their own behinds that they can’t see? It’s Impossible for me to tell.

Let’s see if we can’t increase our field ministry time by another 15 minutes each time we go out. Then after 4 occasions of witnessing we will have another hour “wasted” of our lives….oops I mean serving Kingdom interest. Sounds good to me…..not! Is it any wonder that the retention rate for youth, raised in this cult, and remaining in as adults is so miserablely low. I read somewhere that it is the lowest retention rate of all religions operating in the United States. Absolutely nothing to look forwards to but more of the same, namely work, waiting for Armageddon (that never comes) followed by total disappointment, discouragement, and death. I have personally watched this scenario played out with family and friends so many times I can’t believe the numbers. Pathetic isn’t it? But
I digress.

Let’s figure out some more minutiae we can spend our time on and leave the pedophile problem with Jehovah, yeah that’s it, that’s the ticket! Meanwhile we can sing the new and improved kingdom songs about the blessings we have in men, our very own “Faithful and Discrete slave” (whom we secretly worship) while we await the next steaming load of excremental nonsense from God’s spirit directed organization “the wackos of Walkill”.

There isn’t a day that goes by that I am not thankful my immediate family and I are disassociated from this crazy, manical cult. I personally would rather die at Armageddon on my feet than spend eternity on my knees in any Orwellian dystopian “paradise earth” these sick, perverted clowns would be in control of.

Happy New Year to all, especially those that seek freedom from Watchtower tyranny and cultish nonsense!

I beg to differ: This travel to Absurdistan which the JW.Org is currently undertaking is FUN FUN FUN – to me. I am just cracking up, so much fun I am having with all this utter nonsense and sheer senselessness, all this sputtering babble and drivel, this baloney and gobbledygook, it’s better than the best stand-up comedy, all these new grotesque antics and contortions the Org produces. Just looking at those pics with those “singing” (screaming, yelling) JWs, with their wide-opened, gaping mouths makes me crack up (who in the world sings like this??? The guy on the platforms is yelling at the audience, they are screaming back at him – what kind of lunacy is this? A screaming contest?), and I can’t resist the urge of supplementing those gawking pieholes with “appropriate” balloons plus “fitting” comic-strip-style noise indicators.

All laughing put aside:

Applying the same stringent “logic” that forbids “sisters” the singing of lyrics that contain a “command” – shouldn’t the reading of any Bible verse that contains a “command” also be outlawed for “sisters”? How many times are “sisters” reading “commands” straight out of God’s Word while a “baptized male” is present, be it at meetings or in “field service” or at a “home bible study”? How about that situation, oh you 7 non-venerated dwarfs of the Dark Tower? Are you now going to ban reading the Bible out loud to your female bots for fear they are “giving you commands”?

This is all so nonsensical, absurd, paradoxical – and HILARIOUS to the ultimate degree – finally there’s some fun in all of this; took me a while to get there.

What!!!!! a new crazy for a new year. This spiritual new food smells a little whiffy if you ask me. I am not sure if it is a perfect as it could be. Has any one got any koolaid with a dash of mayo to add to the mix , that should help. Next they will be telling the ninnies to wear a head covering when singing. Aaaagh all the new craziness I am missing. What to do today…. what to do today…… I’m so bored must make note to self go door knocking and maybe I could sing a presentation. Nah nothing to see here folks just the musings of a cynic. Happy new year one and all cheers Ruthlee

As a independent female I used to get into arguments with my folks about the borgs out dated ways for women. I could not get it. My dad was the boss and mom was a perfect wife in subjection. I wanted to know why women can not carry mics and why a head covering. Now, a change to a song so sisters wont be singing commands to the men, it’s ludicrous. Thanks Covert Fade, and I love that song you picked by the Eurythmics! That was my anthem years ago. I played it loud.

All I can say is thank you Watchtower. I have missed pretty much every meeting since January 2017 and was considering going back as a PIMO type person, declare that I am ‘back’ but have a lot of headaches/bad days etc etc ….just to make things easier for my family and the few friends that I still have to associate with me really. But thanks to this absurd WT I have been reassured that my decision to fade is absolutely the right one. Keep them coming i say!!!

Hi messenger, in answer, I have so much proof it’s not funny and religion, in it’s dumbness, has gone and put a foot wrong by accepting micro-evolution and then saying it doesn’t accept macro- evolution. They did this because the evidence for micro-evolution is too strong for denial but doing so showed they know nothing about the subject, but too late, they’re in the rabbit hole. Micro-evolution leads to macro-evolution. Subject closed.

Skating the issue are you outandabout? The easiest way to close any subject is the ostrich approach, but sometimes a dangerous one also. The subject I raised in that previous conversation, under the last article, was about looking for proof the Bible is inspired by God. And I even gave you a specific place to look- the encryption of relevant Hebrew words created by equidistant letter skipping inside the last verses of Isaiah chpt 52 and the first 12 verses of chpt 53. Thus creating relevant words and phrases which are also contained in Bible stories involving Jesus (such as the names of all his12 apostles, the names of 3 Marys all associated with Jesus, the name Joseph, the word crucifixion, and the name of the high priest in Jesus’ day, plus several relevant phrases).

Now I know that involves a little actual work in the way of research. And to do so thoroughly might have even cost you a 10 or 12 dollars outlay for a book. No doubt Chuck Missler’s book addresses the issue thoroughly, as he is typically a thorough teacher.

Considering what I brought up and truthfully addressing that issue would have been addressing the subject, and your response to that would have possibly provided some proof to your belief that the Bible is not inspired by God; although I doubt that much proof would not still have been an overstatement, as the best you could have hoped for was to prove the Bible code a fraud. Rather your response was to skate to that issue. It took no work, and therefore it offered nothing more than a change of subject.

No, buddy, I don’t have to prove anything because it’s already been done by minds far greater than yours or mine. You’re a decent guy and you believe you’re right but you belief system is a dinosaur and it has an asteroid heading straight for it with a label reading ‘DNA Evidence’ on it. You could lesson the impact by becoming educated on that fact. Forewarned is forearmed.
Evolution is not a ladder, it’s a tree and a very big one at that and 99% of all species on it have already gone extinct. If you climbed to the top of that tree you wouldn’t see the four corners of some kingdom. All you’d see is the horizon because the Earth is round.
The word ‘theory’ in the scientific world has a slightly different meaning than you may think. Gravity is a theory. Do you believe in gravity? Are you going to float away, messenger? I hope not.

No you don’t have to prove anything. It was just a suggestion. Since you’re offering yours I offered mine. Nevertheless your behavior suggests your decision to look (or not look) for God is based on your desires, not any factual information. It’s the ostrich approach. Evidence was laid in your lap, and you closed your eyes to it and changed the subject. The purpose of Christ’s message to you is to reveal your response to it, and so it is for all people. They, like you, can make their choice because of what they want not just because of what they know. You’re showing you follow what you know with your eyes closed demonstrating that truth in your life. That’s just one of the ways that Christ and the message about him is the truth. It reveals what each person wants.

Just one thought to leave you with. It’s impossible to prove God does not exist by discovering something about his creation. That’s tantamount to a little kid discovering the ingredients in her mom’s cake, also discovering the mixing and baking procedures her mother used, and then because she’s discovered that information believing her mom didn’t make the cake, but somehow it spontaneously generated itself, ingredients and procedures . No, it’s even more ridiculous than that since her mom didn’t make the ingredients like God did on Earth. “Let us take a little peek a boo at that DNA and oh, now we know God doesn’t exist.” I say how so? What does one of those things have to do with the other? Nothing is the correct answer.

In your post under the previous article you jumped up and down with excitement because you discovered, through the work of others, that life originated in the ocean and was composed of Earthly elements. So, that doesn’t support your position either. Or, is your claim that because a Bible writer didn’t write about DNA and single cell bacteria in the Bible God doesn’t exist? You have got to have more than that. Or, do you? Looks like not. Rather looks like you’re just following an emotional desire, like “I just don’t like daddy God because he’ll kill me if I don’t love him,” or “I don’t want anyone telling me what to do that’s not some human standing right in front of me.” Those are your real issues aren’t they? At least one of those you’ve previously articulated and strongly implied the other.

No messenger, what I can’t stand is injustice and the Bible is the biggest hoax mankind has ever hoisted upon itself but that’s just the path we had to take to get to the level of understanding we’re at now. Superstition and ignorance go hand in hand. Education and knowledge releases us from that and DNA evidence is the silver bullet.
Just because an idea is tenacious does not mean that it is worthy. How many examples of that would you like?

No to what outandabout? I realize you agree that those men you look to are much smarter than you are. But here’s a hint to their (those brainy folks) type of discussions. They know how to articulate their ideas. Start by attempting to fully explain your ideas. That’s what they do.

Whatever you cannot articulate clearly you don’t understand, even if you think you do, you really don’t. You’ve had essentially two ideas. One is the I hate daddy complex. You’ve stated that forthrightly many times, and we understand that thought of yours, e.g, ” God is a misogynist and instructs men to be the same. God is Harvey Weinstein on steroids. God is the source of Harvey Weinstein.” In other words you believe God has and does still hurt you.

But you have not articulated your second idea. From your writings it seems a hazy thought in your brain. DNA proves God (the daddy you hate) does not exist? You haven’t said how it proves that. Do you even have any idea how that’s happened if its true? That I hate daddy idea is getting old since it contradicts points you cannot explain in your God’s nonexistent arguments.

Now it seems in frustration you added a third idea which is NO! No to what? No, you don’t desire to look at evidence God exists?

“Just because an idea is tenacious does not mean that it is worthy” (outandabout’s qoute). Is the idea that is tenacious the thought that someone asked you to look at evidence that was laid at your feet? Or if that’s not the “tenacious idea” what idea do you speak of? Will looking at evidence emotionally hurt you? Is that why your eyes are closed? If so, do these questions emotionally hurt you, like God does?

messenger……this isn’t the place for lengthy off topic discussions that’s why my comments seem sketchy. I just assumed you could read between the lines.
Why have WT ditched the Creation book? What have they realized?
Why has religion accepted micro evolution? When will they click that micro evolution happening 10 times, then 100 times, then 1000 times, generation after generation for thousands and thousands of years (macro evolution) can result in a new species. It’s not hard.
Why, through DNA testing has it been proven that we shared the earth and mated with at least two other hominoids?
Evolution is 99.99% proven now. The writings on the wall.
Before you knock these brainy types, remember they have families and mortgages and need accurate verifiable results or their funding is cut. Imagine what would happen to their funding if they concluded that animals gained their spots and stripes by standing before trees in a certain way as described in the bible. Imagine what would happen if the funding body walked in and found their group of scientists huddled over a bible looking for answers to a puzzle. These types of brainy people are able to place a probe on a passing comet travelling at between 4000 and 40000 km’s per hour. Could you do that, messenger? Instead of trying to knock them you should be holding them in awe.

You still fail to clarify your position. I understand why you put limits on what you believe your abilities are, and why you feel inferior to others, and why because of that in defense of your own limitations by way of excuse you attribute your limitation to others that don’t apply except in your imagination. Most of those people you feel inferior to can understand a simple question, and if they have a belief about it they can articulate that belief with a clear line of thought going from point A to point B, even if points C, D, and E are added to the conversation.

Apparently you cannot make your point. No wonder you are afraid to look at new evidence you have not considered, but instead you have changed the subject in attempts to cloud an issue that was raised. Your claim to be off topic is an excuse. It’s a misrepresentation of your intentions because you have no answer. I’ve seen that behavior a thousand times before. It won’t fly here with me even if it does on this forum.

The question I asked only after you changed the subject, due to your inadequacy to address the original topic, (wait a minute, here it is again, please read slowly) is: how does knowledge about DNA specifically prove God’s nonexistence? (Hint) Connect what you say about DNA, hominoids, and evolution to God’s existence. That’s what those superior intellects would do if they shared your belief.

Now about your professed inferior abilities that have resulted in an inferiority complex. Another hint: those people you refer to as superior can read something once and understand it, not misinterpret it even after multiple readings. They don’t have to read something multiple times. You might have developed their ability if you had put in the work they did as a youngster. But since that time has past you’ll never know. Is that God’s fault also, or because someone advised you not to apply yourself like saying, “don’t go to college?” Is it someone else’s fault, or just your own? My experience suggests it is your own fault outandabout.

If you didn’t wish to feel inferior you should have run with those that fully applied themselves when you were young. But, you are correct about this, it’s too late now. In CA, USA one of the criteria which determines how many prisons we build here is third grade reading scores. We teach those-like we would have taught you if you lived here-how to read until the third grade. Then we use students’ reading comprehension abilities to teach other knowledge students are required to quickly assimilate. Some students are behind 3rd grade reading standards, and data shows if behind at that time many never catch up- therefor a need for more prisons because poor people are more likely to rob and steal or revert to gang behavior. You admitted you were not able to catch up with the students that got ahead of you when you said your abilities fell behind those people you admire. That’s not my fault outandabout. Take responsibility for your own shortcomings.Those are yours. Most teachers I’ve seen do their best. But teachers cannot force students to reach their potential. Its been discovered that the most effective motivation is instrinsic. Studies have even shown that extrinsic motivations undermine self-motivation.

Is it that you don’t want to look at the evidence I suggested you do? Or your goal that you want to take no part in causing others to consider it? That is a much more like scenario than “this isn’t the place for lengthy off topic discussions that’s why my comments seem sketchy” since you frequently get off the topic from the written article and you have again just done that in another comment below this one. Is changing an issue at hand and being “sketchy” the way the people you call brains would defend a position? Stop taking an easy way out!

Back in the spring I watched a news program that was following a story about corrupt politicians who were making terrible rookie mistakes at the same time they were successfully committing crimes. The reporter posed this question: stupid or nefarious?

I often wonder the same kind of thing about the GB. Are they this delusional and out of touch with reality or so hardcore bent on control as to not realize or care how abusive and oppressive they have become?

Do THEY think they are doing God’s will and representing his purpose? Or do they realize they are wrong but so drunk with power they’re just going to ride this til the wheels fall off?

It’s probably not an either or, it’s probably a combination of the two ideas, especially since they are a revolving body of individuals having different views, at different stages of understanding. All of them do realize WT constantly must adapt its teachings in order to make its theology make sense due to the passage of time. In other words its writers must constantly look for ways their theology fits into the scriptures not the way the scriptures dictate what their theology must be.

By doing that having stuck their necks out on issues other churches have not WT must keep doing it e.g. overlapping generation, two classes of Christians (Earthly/heavenly), the timing of the GT. Or WT must admit to everyone it isn’t God directed. All the GB members know that is what WT does. It’s unlikely they could rise to their levels of promotion if they are too ignorant to recognize that. How much they can excuse that behavior as God directing new light might have a lot to do with how individually they really view themselves and their body, even their religion. I suspect the reason WT teaches God does not contact people in our day is because none of the GB has had any experience that could even remotely be associated with that.

The Bible, hardly a fortress of women’s rights, nonetheless has plenty of examples of women, young ones and new ones telling others what to do. And even one of an animal. These are a few that come readily to mind:
• Little girl who advised Syrian commander Naaman
• Infant Samuel who was used to rebuke the High Priest Eli
• Ass who rebuked Balaam
• Abraham was able to question God
• Abigail was able to dissuade David from killing her husband
• God told Abraham to listen to Sarah
• Jesus listened to the Syrophoenician Woman, after he initially rejected her request

Anyone can tell anyone else to do or not to do anything. Being a leader does not mean no one can tell you do do good, or not to do bad. If you listen to them or not is up to you. Only the most crazed despots say no one can give them directions or urge them to take a certain course. And I have never heard of a crazed despot take issue with a song for an such an absurd leap of logic like this.

I have just read a book on a very prominent person who became a Scientologist, the writer devotes a chapter or 2 to explain the beliefs, wow wacko jacko, i read it to some JW & they couldn’t seen a similarities, their founder Ron Hubbard actually stated once that if you want to make a lot of money, Form a Religion.

I think you are all looking at this from the wrong perspective. Give the GB a break- they’re trying their best. If they are too extreme, leave it to Jehovah to fix it up. They are just concerned about our spirituality. Is that so bad? Don’t be concerned about things that don’t apply to you; fight your own battles. Concentrate on your behaviour and your faith to make sure you make it through to the new system. Just sing the songs and stop the moaning. Is it so hard to be submissive? Are you going to suffer by just singing a song? You are showing signs of being like Korah. No need to be bitter. Just get over it and focus on the future.

However, how much of your time have you devoted to the field ministry? Are you taking the lead by going out and leading the group door to door in this life saving, never to be repeated work? Can you lay your intellect aside and blindly follow the “faithful slave” without reservation no matter how dangerous or stupid the request may be? If the answer to these questions are in the affirmative then yes, congratulations; you can become an elder now!

Hey, thanks for picking it up and developing a story. I hope more of these flat out insults keep flooding the future Watchtowers and making people -especially my spouse- extremely uncomfortable on Sundays. Cheers.

I’ve been thinking about how silly this is. Like health and safety people looking for the fly crap in the pepper the Gov Bod are morons. We NEVER took it that our wives were singing AT us men to ‘guard our hearts’ (exactly how one does that is a mystery to me) but we all accepted it was ‘The Faithful and Discreet Slave’ telling us to guard our hearts! Men and women and children.
So they have made an issue from a non-issue. Bloody fools.

Friends of ours have just had a holiday in the USA, they visited the world headquarters in up state NY, you can’t meet the GB, they are hidden away or who knows might not even be their. I would think that a devoted JW who is prepared to spend time & money to go would or should be able to meet one or 2 of them, i recall back in the 80’s my wife & i went to our bethal, we had lunch at the same table as many prominent ones & had a good time. Keep trying Ricardo, just make sue you have the correct socks & tie on, oh & yes you need to work on keeping your meeting bag clean to, oh well we will consider you again in 6 months, hehehe

“The change of the title “Guard Your Heart” to “We Guard Our Hearts” was most considerate. Why? In the audience at our meetings, assemblies, and conventions are many new ones, interested ones, young ones, and sisters who by singing the words would be put in the awkward position of telling others what to do. So the title and the lyrics were modified.”

Oh God. This is just too funny. If there were “new ones” & “interested ones” in the audience listening to that Watchtower Study, they would be thinking…IS THIS FOR REAL! I could just imagine them looking around baffled at the congregation wondering if the study was meant to be a joke.

The further away I get from this group, then glimpse back to see the latest. The more I question what state my sanity was in when I joined them 20 years ago.

Sparlock the Warrior Wizard is my hero. The BEST thing Watchtower has created since Miracle Wheat. In Watchtower’s eyes the biggest problems they have are tight pants and women singing songs at men. Wow! Watchtower, how about addressing the financial issues that are posed by the Watchtower legal department. They seem to be giving millions of dollars away in settlements due in large part by the child abuse issue that you seem to ignore for decades. Maybe you should relinquish the legal department and start addressing those issues like other businesses world wide. Giving a pink slip to Philip Brumley would be a great start.

This is just the beginnings of the implosion of the Watchtower Bible and
Tract Society. Ignoring the important things that are giving them bad publicity (pedophile protection and their cover ups) to making up nonsensical problems to solve
(tight pants and song lyrics) just shows how stupid they really are. What’s truly sad is many still think that this pervision of Christianity is God’s earthly organization. If this is so, then God must agree with this lunacy. However, I don’t believe that for one minute.

Their ten year involvement with the United Nations spells their own demise and their beliefs along with their problems are a direct result of their nefarious actions. They are a part and parcel of Babylon the Great, period. This, more than any other reason, is why my family and I left this hypocritical cult. Everything else has been like frosting on the cake and verifies my own beliefs as to the correctness of my decision to disassociate.

Leaving these major problems in “Jehovah’s hands” is a cop out; a poor excuse for doing nothing to protect the congregation against wolves preying on the flock. The entire body of elders are, as we say down South, as worthless as tits on a tom cat or breasts on a boor hog. Just there for looks but really serve no other purpose other than spies and “yes men” for the organization.

I can’t help but notice how it’s the woman (Eve) who gives into temptation and not the man and so therefore all the troubles of mankind are conveniently blamed on women and they’ve been treated as such ever since. God is a misogynist and instructs men to be the same. God is Harvey Weinstein on steroids. God is the source of Harvey Weinstein.

I believe that the Roman Catholic Church has convinced the world of the misogynistic message of the Bible to put and keep women in their places. The only woman the church truly venerates is the Virgin Mary with all other women, mentioned in the scriptures, given a precursory glance of acceptance.

I don’t believe that God thinks women are second rate morons just these man made religions interpreting sacred writings to their own ends. After all Eve was supposedly “deceived” by Satan. Eve was apparently approached while alone by the serpent and spoken to; not the man. Adam, on the other hand, had spoken to God directly never Eve. God followed the chain of command with Adam relaying all instructions from God to his mate. Adam and should have known better but threw his lot in with Eve. He is held more liable for the sin as scripture states. “Through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin”. Even though Eve was deceived it was the man who was to blame. He was the “captain” of his household.

For example, if a ship sinks in war time, it’s the captain who is brought up to the mast. I refer to the sinking of the USS Minneapolis in WW2 and the disgraced former captain who was scapegoated for navy incompetence. Only after his suicide was his case reopened and he was exonerated from blame on the loss of his ship.

Neither Adam or Eve are recorded to have apologized but instead passed the blame around, first to God himself for making the woman, then the woman to the serpent for deception, etc. Cowards all.

If God carries any blame, what so ever, it’s His inability to stymie Satan and thwart his manical designs before those plans came to fruition. God seems reactionary and not proactive that disturbs me most of all. Could He not see the insurrection brewing beforehand? If so, why did he not confront Satan about his attitude. He did not have a problem confronting Cain about his attitude before he committed murder.

“Free will” only goes so far with me and then I question how much of this story is another Pandora’s Box myth of another woman causing grief or just Hebrew mythology that has replaced Graco-Roman (pagan) mythology as “Truth”.

Thanks Big B. I know a used to be absolutely devout Catholic woman, English teacher, in her eighties now, convent schooling, priests and nuns in the family, the whole works. I asked her why she ditched her faith and she said it was because she found out that the Adam and Eve story was really about them having sex. Whats your take on that? Interestingly, her husband has become even more devout and drags himself off to church every single day. Mind you, he enjoy’s a good natter and loves the clergy.

I too have heard the “sex” theory but does that not contradict the command, made supposedly by God himself, ‘to become fruitful, multiply and fill the earth and subdue it. Having in subjection all the creatures of the earth’, etc?

No, I can’t buy into the sex theory of what constitutes the ‘original sin’. How much of this “storyline” constitutes truth or myth is really an ongoing debate that has not been or cannot be verified one way or the other. Of course, Jesus’ ancestory can be traced to Adam (in the gospels) and the apostles wrote about sin through Adam but why wouldn’t they?

What is the Bible anyway but a book written about the Jews, for the Jews, by all Jewish writers? Does it not then stand to reason logically that Genesis, written by Moses, was a conglomeration of Jewish family history, starting with Abraham, mixed in with Jewish mythology and here say thereby filling in the missing information beforehand?

I, personally speaking, can’t put much faith into anything the scriptures report on before Abraham without solid evidence proving otherwise. Noah’s ark on Mount Arrat will never be found as the Turkish government won’t allow expeditions on their ‘national defense area’ so they say. Or is it, in fact, mentioned that Noah’ ark is located on another mountain, according to their Koran? Can’t have mistakes found in their holy writings, can we?

Messenger, I replied above, but also, why would I want to read a book by Chuck Missler…….a guy who swears on his life that man and woman were created with a handful of dirt and a piece of rib. WTF !? So he hunts for hidden meanings in scripture and comes up with his own answer. So what? Hasn’t that been done 40,000 times already and what does that actually prove other than he’s just another clever charlatan. How do you know he’s not your Satan? All he’s doing is adding further mystery to a mystery. He’s on the bandwagon. You’ve half ditched one cult for another.
Meanwhile back in the lab…….bubble bubble bubble bubble…….the clocks ticking.
And on Mt Ararat, another lot of totally unbiased evangelical researches sponsored by the SDA have discovered wood they say came from Noah’s ark which has been carbon dated at 4,800 yrs old. Lets wait and see what unfolds and whether or not this becomes the third hoax there of it’s kind. Why do they feel the need to do that?
But notice that after decades of denial, carbon dating is deemed accurate? And they now accept half the story of evolution? Tick tick tick tick bubble bubble bubble……
Gotta love ya.

I haven’t thoroughly looked into the codes myself. But even a quick mouse click would reveal equidistant letter skipping forming significant words in the Hebrew Bible was discovered by Hebrew rabbis hundreds, or even thousands of years ago. Chuck Missler is not the point. The reliability of what his book is about, is the point. And true that would take a little actually looking into, without bowing down to the first author that supports your position, something you’ve expressed no desire to do. Your choice outandabout.

You might have realized I was aware of the fallacies in your position when I baited you to affirm it. That would be a logical reason for your evasion from explicitly explaining how discovering information about DNA proves God does not exist. You either already knew you could not prove one from the other-as you admitted some months back-, or you are currently mistaken, having built your arguments on the words of and ideas others.
First, consider the broadest reason why knowledge about DNA does not prove God does not exist. Your whole argument centers on claims you make about macroevolution. If macroevolution is at work in the world then God cannot exist is the belief. The argument falls flat on its face. Think about it! On its face the argument claims God cannot use evolution in the creation process even if he chooses to. Since you previously referred to gravity you might as well claim God cannot use gravity in his creation. If gravity exists God doesn’t? Sounds stupid doesn’t it? What’s the difference? It’s just your assertion. No reason is given why God cannot use either phenomenon
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Second, let’s incorporate the belief held in common by most Christians, but not all, that macroevolution is not at work on planet Earth. While I don’t accept your premise that it is, what if it is? If it is why would God talk about microscopic organisms, like single cell organisms, and microscopic processes, like the workings of DNA, to people who lived thousands of years ago who had zero knowledge of such things, and would not be able to understand those things without a very detailed and scientific explanation? That’s not how Bible knowledge was written. For instance, very little detail was written about things in the dimension of heaven. We don’t even know what different angels, or any angel, looks like. Their bodies are merely described as spirit. Does the Bible even say what spirit is? No! About Earthly things the Bible writes a lot. But that writing is also full of metaphors and analogies including in areas where humans had no understanding of those concepts except through divine revelation. Your argument assumes God would use analogies about heavenly things but not microscopic Earthly things. Why must that be? Why couldn’t God use the simple language of clay, dirt (the elements in dirt) when describing what he made man of? Would God be forbidden from doing so because thousands of people say so even if macroevolution exists? Really if God exists no one forbids him from communicating in any way he chooses to. Is anybody forbidding you from doing so?
A mistake your argument makes is to accept what other people say about God. By doing that put him in a box that’s been constructed by humans. Bur God exists outside all boxes. You were correct months ago when you admitted you cannot prove God’s nonexistence.

Hi messenger……this is getting out of hand and you’ve got me all wrong. I can see plenty of holes in your arguments but this is not the place and I don’t have the time lately,but quickly….humans originated in Africa not the Middle East. It’s been proven, so theirs another huge hole in the bible story. The evidence supporting evolution is so strong, religion can’t truly win, but hey, it’s a free country and you can just take the default position of ‘he moves in mysterious ways’. It’s your right to do that and I’ll get out there and support you in that but this tax exempt business has to go and these beliefs need to stand on their own merit.
Have you noticed that religion can’t truly thrive in anything less than a democracy and religion and the religious enjoy all the benefits of a free society but then simply can’t wait to be in a divine dictatorship under constant surveillance of thought and action and bored and restricted and just existing in quiet desperation for eternity. You guy’s truly don’t know you’re alive.
Have you noticed that all the books ever written by the likes of Chuck Missler would be enough to fill the library of a small town. How come? Isn’t the bible supposed to be easily read and understood by every single person, however humble, no wait!….especially if they’re humble! Why aren’t these books hot topic. Why aren’t the authors household names? It’ll be for the same reason that even though Charles Taze Russell had his works inspected by an invisible Jesus. Nobody listens because it has no merit.. If Jesus inspected and approved those works,it would be the absolute biggest thing since the bible itself, but no – looney tunes. Works of the deluded and desperate.
But anyway, is our fishing trip for this weekend still on?

Yeh outandabout, looks like in the last few months you learned to prove your point. A point you admitted you were unable to prove a few months back. I think your exposure of Mr. Missler was the key. Glad I was able to provide that last key to you for you to unlock the truth and finalize an undeniably convincing argument.

wow – did anyone see the ‘WACO’ documentary last night? They interviewed several ex-Branch Davidians (spin off of 7 day Adventists ~ like JW) and they followed David Koresh without question. My wife looked at me and her drop dropped when they said they had the Truth! So many comparisons it was scary. Enough said!

Lloyd, Covert and John do you really think the GB are in control of this multi billion dollar organization? Or do you think like me that the are just fed by faceless controllers in watchtower who pull the strings and live off the money? Really how can this group of simpletons be in charge?

At the meeting Tuesday night, an announcement was made. This year all of the three day conventions in the bay area will be held in Sacramento because the bay area is to expensive. So we wont be going to Cow Palace this year Sacramento is a two hour drive from Fremont. Has anyone heard anything about it ? Is this because of the sexual harassment lawsuits ?

The first District Assembly I attended in San Francisco was in the early 70s was a 5-day torture session at the open-air Kezar Stadium. This stadium had hard bleacher seats with no backrests and the first 4 days had evening sessions. Every day we would get baked by the sun until the fog rolled in around 2 PM, and then we would shiver in the cold until 9 PM. I obtained some relief by working in the kitchen.

After this, at least 1 summer assembly was held at Candlestick Park, which was partially open-air, but at least the seats were more comfortable. Next came the indoor Cow Palace assemblies, which were a vast improvement. Now it appears that the Cow Palace era of 3-day assemblies has ended. Cow Palace management always welcomed the Witnesses because we throughly cleaned the facility from top to bottom. Still, they could have raised the rent. It does cost a fortune to stay overnight in the Bay Area, so I don’t think that the ongoing child sexual abuse lawsuits have anything to do with the move to Sacramento.

During those years I mentioned above, my congregation traveled 130 miles from Ukiah, CA to the Cow Palace assemblies in Daly City, but the other two San Francisco locations were a few miles closer.

Having the District Assembly in Sacramento will be only 90 miles from Ukiah, so my former brothers and sisters will have a much shorter commute, with far less traffic and no toll on the Golden Gate Bridge. I no longer attend meetings, but I am not disfellowshipped.

ScotWM. I remember Kezar stadium quite well. I got baptized there thinking just a few more years to Armegeddon. It was SO LONG and you are right at night we stayed till 9pm and it was cold as ICE. I was brand new JW and I kept saying Man, don’t these JWs ever go home?

As a Gorian, I prefer a male dominated utopia where women can find their true calling at the foot of The Master’s bed.

Tarnsmen unite against the Harpies!

On a more acceptable note, I spent over 50 years studying Fred Franz typical/anti-typical doctrines. When those were repudiated, I accepted the “counsel” from the “Governing Body”. In the past, when I suffered from cognizant dissonance I used to reason; “the Governing Body/FDS knew best. The turning point for me was the Overlapping-Generations theory. Basically, it was apparent that their timelines were FUBAR and they needed to come up with some gimmick to keep the “faithful” onboard and contributing financial and sweat-equity.

Their arguments for the provenance of the GB is spurious and does not comport with the Scriptures. If a GB was needed, then why didn’t The Lord tell us to wait in expectation of it? Additionally, it is also obvious that the timeline of Daniel has been misinterpreted. Lastly, since no one knows the day or the hour, the setting of prospective dates of completion run contrary to the spirit of the Scriptures.

The “Society” seems to rest most of its authority on the “we were the only ones that predicted Jesus parousia to occur in 1914. However, C.T. Russell originally foretold that as the date of the end of Armageddon. This modification is not confessed in the publications and most Witnesses are too new to know about it.

As for The Lord’s “invisible” presence: “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.” (Matt. 24:26)

As the Angels prophesied; “”Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

The “Society” says that when he was caught up into the clouds that he became “invisible” and that his return would therefore be invisible. However, for him to return, in reverse of his ascension would create a reasonable expectation that he would descend from the clouds in like fashion and thus be visible.

Matthew 24:45 being twisted to ask ‘Who is THE faithful and discreet slave?’ replacing the original ‘Who is A faithful and discreet slave?’ The job of a witness is to hunt down ‘house to house’ all those with a genuine interest in coming closer to Christ and ruining the message for them. What is the ratio of people who accept a bible study in this organization to those who dedicate their lives to God? Is it something like 1 in 10, what about the other 9 who were open to listening to Gods message and receive in its stead never ending product placement training?

What is the number of individuals who make it all the way to baptism despite the ever changing amendments to scripture and stay the course?

What impact has the anti-Christmas, anti-Thanksgiving, anti-family events preaching work had in communities where this message is pushed by these witnesses all year round?

What effect has this Watchtower work had on Christianity worldwide as a whole?

One of the first things you learn in your non biblical bible study with these witnesses is that all non-Watchtower forms of Christianity derive from Satan and are to be avoided all together. Again I ask, what impact has this hate preaching had on Christ message around the world and how many here are a faithful and discreet slave willing to continue the fight against these false works?

Its the 11th rule of power, Make People Dependent On You. By constantly changing the rules to the game no one player ever achieves enough true knowledge to master the ever changing subject. You might know a thing or two about scripture, but you’ll never have true theocratic knowledge of an organization that changes the floor plans on a weekly basis. Its like a maze that leads straight back to the starting point the entire time your there. Every member under the seven Samurai will spend their lives walking with insecurity and compensating for it with outwardly displays of arrogance and false confidence. Always having letters at hands length to validate their points only to have a new letter show up a few weeks later tweaking that one, so on and so forth. They know nothing about anything, not Scripture, Gods will, least of all Christ message of unconditional love.

A beautiful insightful summary of the entire cult and their beliefs. Besides Scientology I can’t think of another religion that asks for so much from their adherents for so little in return. Jehovah’s Witnesses are truly a time bandit which is the worst theft of all.

Had a chat to an Elders Friend on the Weekend, re the New song, i said its heading to Head Covering for Sisters, he didn’t agree, i said they are giving talks on the ministry school thingy, no he said they are giving Demo’s, i didn’t agree, as said they are performing RV & Bs at the meeting, wait for it further refinement.

My message to all sisters is to take to heart the words of the ‘Keeping your Integrity’ song –
“I do not sit with wicked men of lies, I hate the company of those who truth despise, With evil men take not away my life, my soul with those whose hands are filled with bribes and strife …. ”
Get the hell out of there!!

a fine message, Bad Penny, but not just for JW women but women oppressed by religion worldwide. Take a look at those dreadfully dis empowered Muslim women who must by law hide themselves away forever wearing black – the color of mourning. What are they mourning? – the loss of their identity. Religion (men in control) is afraid of the power of the vagina. How utterly weak and stupid. Religion wants to lock half of humanity away. What a waste of beautiful and useful minds!

Yes, outandabout, a waste of many beautiful and useful minds … Religion has a lot to answer for.
When I decided to leave jwdom in 2013 a ‘brother’ said to me, ‘What a waste’. I had put everything into Watchtower and was now turning my back on it. The irony being that I had indeed wasted my life on something worthless and now had to start to pick up the pieces and try to find a new purpose in life. Unfortunately, my age is against me and I am sooo tired. I just hope that I live long enough to see the Watchtower fall, it would be some recompense for my wasted years.

” I’ll bet 90% of Witness males, despite being indoctrinated into Watchtower’s rather sexist view of female subjection and headship, have never even for one moment been offended by the fact that Sisters were singing the old lyrics. ”

And I’ll bet that 90% of witness males are seeing things VERY differently now that the idea has been put into their heads that women have been bossing them around via song for decades.

Seriously, that article has just introduced them to the concept that almost any mundane thing can constitute a woman’s disobedience.