A Melendres-Arpaio-MCSO Cold Case Posse-Seattle Operation Timeline

2014-10-03 Peter Boyles Show

MR. BOYLES: Here on 710 KNUS on two occasions we had a big dustup and I'm not proud of how the show sounded. When we had -- again, I'm going to say who we had with us -- Carl Gallups, who's on the line with us now, and Mike Zullo from -- this represents, has gotten tremendous amount of attention in the search for who is Barack Obama. Both of them are with us. Let's begin.

Hey, Mike. Good morning. Thanks for coming on the show again, and good morning to you.

MR. ZULLO: Good morning, sir.

MR. BOYLES: Hey, man, good morning to you, and also, Pastor, good morning to you.

MR. GALLUPS: Thank you, Peter. Good morning.

MR. BOYLES: All right, you know, one of the things -- and it wasn't an hour of talk radio we're particularly proud of, but it got pretty heated, and one of the things that's clear to all of us is we really do head in the same direction. It's who is Barack Obama? And it doesn't -- it doesn't help our cause when we internally fight. So I wanted to make some things straight and make it right, that we all really are headed in the right direction, and I'll just begin and I'll say this question to Mike.

Mike, of course, has been on this case for how long, Mike, have you quested who is Barack Obama?

MR. ZULLO: I just crossed three years last month, within the last month.

MR. BOYLES: And Carl, how long have you looked?

MR. GALLUPS: Well, Peter, like you, I've been looking at this from the beginning and on the first interview we had, you remember I told you that I had heard your kind of testimony about your involvement and I -- just like you, when Peter -- excuse me, when people first brought it up to me, Peter, I didn't think it was possible that his birth certificate, something was wrong with it, and so my investigation, you know, took off from there. So from the beginning, since it was first brought up.

MR. BOYLES: And one of the things, when I first came across Mike Zullo, Zullo had touched on the points -- and this was after the birth certificate actually dropped, the one that I believe is a phony. Mike, is that when you got into the fight?

MR. ZULLO: We got into the fight through the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office. Sheriff Arpaio was approached by concerned citizens that there was something felonious with this purported birth certificate, and they asked him as a law enforcement agency to look at it. The sheriff has the ability to call upon a trained, if you will, from the west side of the country, a posse, which is really just another acronym for a task force.

He has developed the Cold Case Posse, which I am the commander of, at his direction, and in doing so, they have trained us in investigation techniques, especially focusing on going way back in time and developing information that could lead to a conviction of unsolved homicides.

So taking that, the sheriff knew that if he entered into this fray, using taxpayer money, he would get a lot of political pressure to shut this thing down. So he contacted me and asked me if I would head this up for him. The sheriff and myself did not believe, much like Carl Gallups, that this was ever possible in this country. The sheriff told me from the very beginning, Mike, I don't think anything is here. You know, I want to be the guy to clear this up, because the country needs to move on. Take a look at this. Let me know.

Twenty-four hours later, I had to get back to him and tell him that I couldn't do that. There was something wrong here. What do you want me to do, sir? And he said investigate it. Gave me full investigative authority through the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office, and people have to understand that that kind of authority can only come from a law enforcement agency. You can't be a civilian doing the things that we are doing. So that authority comes directly from the sheriff, and he has publicly said that he has vested me with that authority. Some people don't like that, but that's the case.

And for three years now we've been going on. As you know, your good friend, my friend Jerry Corsi, who did a lot of work on this, was the source of this information. Our mandate from the very beginning was to take Mr. Corsi's information and vet it, and you could ask Jerry. That's exactly what we did.

Also in that mandate was to do further investigation as required and develop new information. We did all that. We gave two press conferences where we believed we had proven to the level of probable cause that a crime has been committed here, that there's something wrong with the document. From that point forward, that mandate stopped. The sheriff wanted to get this to Congress, was having difficulty, and part of the difficulty, Peter, was the fact that so many people all over the internet have weighed in on this and made contacts to congress people with claims that are just unsubstantiated and that muddied the waters.

So the sheriff changed the mandate, and he told me to take this in the direction now of a total law enforcement investigation, and where we are right now is we have cultivated our own evidence, not dependent on other people, done through this investigation, and at some point, I'm hoping in the very near future, we're going to be able to release that, and you're going to understand, I believe, the truth behind this document.

Please understand, our mandate, Sheriff's position is -- and I'm not saying this in a disparaging way. We are not birthers. We are here looking at a fraudulent document. This document should never have been perpetrated, should never have been proffered in the manner it does. As a matter of fact, to merely create this document is a federal offense.

We're concentrating on a fraudulent counterfeit document that was used to be proffered by Mr. Obama and his administration as proof positive that he's an American citizen. We don't have that evidence. We don't have that proof of that claim.

But that is what our mandate is. That is what the sheriff is investigating.

Now anyone who wants to take it further as to draw the conclusions as to where this individual was born, we don't have that information. We weren't mandated to explore that. If it came up in the course of our investigation, of course we would have worked on it. But our position is this, Peter, and it's really clear. This document has never been brought to trial, and if you go back on all these court cases, and a lot of these court cases that people have burned jurisdictions on have made it very difficult for us to proceed forward, but in every one of them you're going to notice something.

The Obama administration never produces the document. They never go into court with the document. That's telling, because they can't. A PDF file is not an official document. The PDF file could never be used in an official capacity. It is not a certified copy of anything. In our opinion, it is a fraudulent facsimile of an official state document. You couldn't take a PDF file and walk into Social Security and get a reissued Social Security card using that as your birth certificate. It just doesn't run.

So I mean there's a lot that I can go into, and I don't want to get any more longwinded. I know we don't have a lot of time.

MR. BOYLES: No, let me do this. Let me find agreement for the three of us. I believe that that, quote, birth certificate which as you point out, a PDF, I believe it's a forgery. Carl, do you believe it's a forgery?

MR. GALLUPS: Yes.

MR. BOYLES: And Mike, you believe it's a forgery.

MR. ZULLO: Oh, absolutely.

MR. BOYLES: Now, his Social Security number that belongs to a guy from Connecticut. Carl, do you believe that that's a legitimate SSN for Barack Obama?

MR. GALLUPS: I don't know that I have the authority to say what I know about that.

MR. BOYLES: Fair enough.

Mike, do you believe that that is not his true SSN?

MR. ZULLO: Well, let me -- actually, let me just piggyback right off of Carl, and I want you to understand something, Peter.

MR. BOYLES: I follow.

MR. ZULLO: Carl -- let me finish. Carl Gallups is a former law enforcement officer himself. So we looked at this very different. This is from the evidence has to support the allegation, and we leave no bones about it. We were steered(?) to look into that Social Security number.

Let me tell you, first of all, from the position of the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office, we have no jurisdiction to look into that number, because that number was never used for anything in our jurisdiction. However, however, I did take a 25-year veteran of a law enforcement organization back east, whose last four years was doing nothing but background investigations for liquor, firearms, and some other licensing that you have to go through police departments to get, and I asked him, I said, please look at this. He didn't know anything about it. Please look at this. Tell me what you conclude. I didn't give him my own conclusions.

After he looked at it, he came to me with the same conclusion I drew upon. While the information is suspect, the means that it was acquired and the lack of follow-through on any level of a federal agency doesn't rise to the level of probable cause that this is not his. Now I am not saying it is not his or is his. I am not saying that. I'm saying the evidence doesn't go there.

And part of the problem with the Social Security work that was done is it was taken from civilian databases that private investigators use, and they pay licensing fees to get this stuff, but the disclaimers right in the beginning are it can be highly inaccurate, and just because it associates doesn't necessarily mean it is or is not that individual's number.

You take the issue with E-Verify. Now, we use E-Verify all the time in the sheriff's office. E-Verify, in and of itself, someone not being in there or someone having conflicting information is not probable cause that this is not their Social Security number. It is information that is suspect that requires further investigation.

So when people are talking to me, I'm not in the realm of speculating. I have to have the evidence that builds the ladder that gets me to the top.

So when we tell you, no, I don't think that or I can't go there right now, it doesn't mean that individual that's bringing that is right or wrong. We just don't have the legal amount of evidence for the use of a criminal -- in the use of a criminal investigation, and that's the standard we're held by.

MR. BOYLES: I follow. I follow closely now.

One of the things that happens with this man's life is we do -- we end up in beliefs, not knowledge, and I say it all the time. If we knew -- and we don't know, and every time I do a birther story, and we generally do once or twice a week, I always say anybody who claims that they, quote, know -- and knowledge is so much different than belief -- Barack Obama's life story is not telling you the truth, because I don't believe -- again, that choice of words -- anyone knows -- that choice of words -- Barack Obama's true timeline.

Carl, your thoughts about that statement?

MR. GALLUPS: Yeah. Well, there's a lot that's suspect to that, Peter, and first, I just wanted to say thank you for asking me that about the Social Security number, but there's an example. I was not being evasive when I answered it the way I did. I knew everything that Mike Zullo just said, but it was not my place to say it. So that's all I meant by that.

But yes, no, I agree with you, Peter. There's so much that's suspect concerning his background, and as you probably know, Peter, the Congressional Research Service, which of course is the official investigative arm of Congress, they released a written report. Actually it kind of got leaked, because it was released to the members of Congress who had asked for the information, and in that report, which we've reported on extensively on my show and PPSIMMONS, that report says -- it admits, and I'm going to paraphrase for you and your audience, but this Congressional Research Service report to Congress admits that Barack Obama has never been vetted. Now, in that same report they went on to say, however, there's no constitutional mandate that he -- that any presidential candidate is to be vetted. So that was their excuse.

Now, I disagree with that. I think the Constitution's pretty clear that the, you know, the candidate for president who's presented to the Electoral College is to be vetted by Congress, but anyway, regardless of the interpretation, I agree with you, Peter. It is suspect. Even the Congressional Research Service says he's never been vetted.

MR. BOYLES: I -- back to Mike, if I could. It's interesting, I was explaining this and reading up to make sure that we were all going to do the right thing, but the original birthers were Democrats. It was Bill and Hillary Clinton. I mean, would you speak to that?

MR. ZULLO: As far as I understand it, you're 100 percent correct, and you know, I think you have to look at the resolution regarding John McCain. When he wanted to run for president, there was question as to whether he was actually qualified because he was supposedly born in the Panama Canal area on a military base. I think that's where the fix happened, to be honest with you. I think John McCain -- I believe Hillary Clinton supported that. I believe Barack Obama supported that. Then I think -- yes, so I think that's where the fix came in, and that's a resolution. That really doesn't mean anything. You know what that is? That's a backdoor deal that we're saying we're not going to look into this. So they gave McCain the pass. In exchange they were going to give Obama the pass. So there was no vetting of this man.

If anybody -- anybody should have this hearing into a background, it's Barack Obama, but no one did it, because of that resolution. So I believe the fix was in from the beginning. I think he walks relatively un- -- relatively unhampered regarding this issue, because he knows Congress isn't going to look into it. And I don't think he cares how much it spins up.

MR. BOYLES: Do you -- and again, this is not knowledge and it's a belief question. The fraudulent documents, including birth certificate, selective service form, bogus Social Security number, he has -- those are his verifies. So do you believe -- and again, belief is different than knowledge, and I understand if you say, well, we can't know, but does this President have a valid Social Security number, valid ID?

MR. ZULLO: If you're going to ask me to the level of suspicion, I don't believe any of it's valid.

MR. BOYLES: Good.

MR. ZULLO: However, my belief -- there's a saying in --

MR. BOYLES: Oh, I know.

MR. ZULLO: -- it's not what I know, what I believe, it's what I can prove. So I agree with that. I agree with that.

And let me be clear, Peter. I have no objection to speculative talk radio. I enjoy listening to it. I disagree with a lot of it, but I enjoy listening to it. Where this runs afoul is when information is presented -- as a matter of fact, and I'm going to be candid about this -- if it's presented on your show as attributed to things that I said and I never said them -- you had an hour or an hour and a half of a disgruntled former eight-week member who just slandered me and Gallups.

MR. BOYLES: I was going to bring that up. That's right.

MR. ZULLO: Well, I know you were, but just slandered me and Gallups to no end. Now, those things happening on a venue such as the caliber of your radio show, people just stop and say it came from Peter, Peter's show, therefore it must be true. And that's the problem I have with speculative talk radio, especially when it's about this subject. I have no issue with everybody throwing out their theories. The issue I have is those theories begin to turn into truths and truths that are now taken into a narrative that gives you an illogical -- or excuse me, a logically-false premise, and people start building on actually truths that are nothing more than conjecture or opinion. That's my problem.

MR. BOYLES: I mean, I follow. You and I had a couple of really good private conversations, but in fairness, the truth about Barack Obama's life is only kept alive in a couple of places, and it's not going to be the mainstream press. It's not going to be the big newspapers. It's not going to be in the realm of politics. It happens on this show. It happens on the internet. Carl's got a hunk of that action. Jerry's got a hunk of that action. But I can really count on my hands and toes how many people that I legitimately think are in the fight.

And without -- I realize without consent of your work. At the same time, you know, you're trying to add up two and two, and there really isn't an answer to two and two, because it -- so it goes into that realm of what happens to Barack Obama when as a boy he's in Indonesia, and I have a friend, Don Fredrick, who has followed his voting patterns and says the guy always votes Sunni. He always votes against Israel, votes against Shia, but always votes for the Sunnis. Now that's not provable, but it certainly makes sense in the timeline. Does that make sense, guys?

MR. ZULLO: I'll answer that real quick, and then Carl, you give your opinion. It does make complete sense to me, and I want to tell you this. Don Fredricks, I believe that man has done a phenomenal job.

MR. BOYLES: He's great.

MR. ZULLO: And I gotta -- I could not do what that man did, and what I really appreciate about Don is he's the first one to tell you I'm not sure if this is true, I'm kind of guessing here, but let me put it out there, and that's what I think safeguards Don's work is because he painstakingly does that. So when Don says, you know, I've tracked this guy, that's very credible to me.

But as an investigator, if I've taken -- I've used Don's work in our investigation. The way Don lays it out is he always puts in the supporting documentation to any fact that he's talking about. It makes it extremely easy for me to go verify myself.

MR. BOYLES: He's excellent.

MR. ZULLO: And the big question that you always have to ask yourself is how do I know this? How do I know this to be true? And that works you backwards, and if you look at Barack Obama's past, I can't get to how do I know this, because everything is a rabbit trail or a dead end. So there is a problem with his past. And there is a problem --

MR. BOYLES: And that's why it works more in the realm of belief, but in the scientific method you're really doing more eliminating, and you point that out; in investigating you're doing more of eliminating until you really get down to what really is left standing.

MR. ZULLO: Well, if you look at it, sir, it's called deductive reason.

MR. BOYLES: That's right.

MR. ZULLO: And what a lot of, quote -- and I hate to use this pejorative term, because it's the only way I can identify -- a lot of people in the birther movement use inductive reasoning where they start off with a premise and then open it up and try to make everything prove their premise.

MR. BOYLES: And work backwards.

MR. ZULLO: And work backwards. And it's proven that that brings you to an incorrect conclusion, even though it looks like it was logically done.

MR. BOYLES: Let me -- can I pause -- can I -- let me bounce a question off of both of you. Final question. We'll get you back in two weeks.

I'll start with Carl. Carl, who is Barack Obama?

MR. GALLUPS: Well, I think we have all kind of answered that. I think that we really don't know. The Congressional Research Service says that. You know, Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton tried to tell us that. Again, he's written the book, you know, Dreams From My Father. We get some glimpse there, if that's accurate. It seems that some of the material in there is not accurate.

We do know that he was raised apparently in a deeply Sunni Muslim background, and I'm like you, Peter, and when I do have my speculative talk radio sessions, I have speculated for years that he is, you know, he leans more towards a Sunni background, a Sunni Muslim background, and more towards favoring, you know, the objectives of that faith. I mean, that's my opinion. I could be wrong. But there are millions of people in America that have come to that same conclusion now.

MR. BOYLES: Mike, who is he?

MR. ZULLO: You know, I don't know if I have the answer to that question. All that I can tell you is I don't believe he is who he purports to be.

MR. BOYLES: That's my answer.

MR. ZULLO: I know that we've had back and forth as far as, you know, your friend and my friend, Joel Gilbert, good guy. But we disagree on the conclusion of his movie. However, my -- now going into speculative areas, and I want to be clear -- I mean, I'm sorry -- cops do this. You do come up with speculative theories. I would be focusing real hard on who's the mommy, because I do have some issues on Frank Marshall Davis. I mean, I just saw the interview with Barack Obama's half brother on Fox News, and boy, these guys are very similar, not only in looks, but also in stature and mannerisms, speech patterns, very, very similar.

But, hey, Peter --

MR. BOYLES: And if you look at Frank and you look at the other Barack, he looks like Frank.

MR. GALLUPS: Peter, let me jump in here --

MR. ZULLO: But you know what, I can go and tell you that I could look at side by side and say, boy, he looks a lot like Malcolm X. He looks like the guy who was the leader of that Subud cult. I mean, you can just keep doing that. I mean, Peter, there's so many lookalikes, you know, that you just can't use that anymore. That defies logic at this point, because there's too many people that you can say he looks like, he looks like.

MR. GALLUPS: Peter, let me jump in and answer and give one little tidbit for you and your listeners to chew on. When you ask the question who is Barack Obama, think of this, Peter, and I'm sure you've talked about this before, but think of this: name one hospital in the United States of America that officially claims to be the birthplace of Barack Obama, where they have erected a monument, they've put up plaques, they declare it in the newspapers, they declare it on Fox News, Barack Obama was born here. There's not a single hospital in the United States of America that makes that declaration.

MR. BOYLES: That's why when we exposed these two clowns here, Jason Salzman and Michael Huttner, who ran a contest that the first prize of the contest would be a round-trip for two to Hawaii on Martin Luther King's birthday and visit the hospital that Barack Obama was born in, they never awarded a prize, and I end it on this: if I ran a radio show and offered a prize of round-trip to Hawaii and never awarded it, the government would be on me like a cheap suit. Those two boys got away with it, and they're still here in town, Huttner and Salzman are here.