I'm using the basic wedge top frames ($.43 ea) with the wedge turned as described by MB and paint the edge with wax.

Scott

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"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

there is alot of discussion on bee-source about shaving the frames -i think 1/16 off each side so total 1/8 off the end bars-makes them 1 1/4 on center-instead of 1 3/8 with 1 inch top bar and run 11 frames in ten frame box--this is suppose to give true bee space and true dimension for natural comb and eliminates many problems getting straight comb-this would be piece of cake for you to try in a couple boxes and let us know if theres a difference-probably get the details from MB this is one of his strategies if it helps with the process why not- 8-) RDY-

Thanks for that...might just have to try it even if I haven't been having problems with ten frames. I'll run a couple of boxes with 11 this spring and see how it works.

Scott

Logged

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

lots of opinions here foundation embossed or flat. done lot of experimenting with it I have a wax mill and still tried flat sheets well bees do work them but not very good lot of bur comb and drone comb. now for embossed foundation compared to no foundation. bees seem to build faster on no comb but do make some irregular cells.advantage with foundation bees on good flow or feed will draw out perfect cells better. now I don't make my hives level maost have a 1 and 1/2 in fall to them for moisture to run out id you get hard rains.Donhope this helps without stepping on any ones toes :roll: :-D

One of our favorite beekeeping books is "Advanced Bee Culture" by W.Z. Hutchenson. Written in the early 1900's, he covers both foundation and natural comb...one thing he points out is that on a flow, the bees will fill natural comb with honey as fast as they can draw it (or any empty comb you place in there)...but with foundation in the broodnest, the queen can fill the cells with eggs before the walls are drawn out enough to deposit nectar, and then the colony draws the walls out around the eggs/larvae.

Then you need to turn off your computer, burn your books, don't talk to anyone that knows about bees so you won't become contaminated any further.

I'm a second generation hobby beekeeper. I have learned an immense amount from researchers, old books, a few larger and large scale beekeepers. I hope to continue to do so.

Hobbiests don't have enough hives to decipher trends or true effects.

Researchers seldom work with 100's of hives to do their tests, but they do keep great records and can extrapolate their data to cover the industry. kinda

Commercial beeks work with 1000's and ten's of thousands.When they try something, the percentages are easier to figure out.If it works, keep doing it. If it doesn't work, quit it, or go out of business.

Think about it for a bit.

Years as a successful commercial beek.With a scientists mind.Read everything printed on the subject at the time.Knew and discussed bees with other notable beeks of the time.Kept records and then tells us everything he learned.

Priceless.

And you are just going to dismiss it as something beneath you?

As you have argued with and dismissed others here that were trying to help you.

I have no further interest in your cobbled up extractor and hope I'm never exposed to any hive products produced in a similiar manor.

If those old books were written by langstroth, root, dadant, doolittle, they were written by commercial beekeepers. This is something we see less of today (looking forward to Michael Palmer's book). Remember that commercial beekeeping was not always migratory pollination.

If you have two hives and you loose both of them because you don’t have a 1000 hives in your apiary, (which statistically would show normal losses instead of 100% losses) does that mean you should now start treating your next hives the way the commercial beeks do?

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Years as a successful commercial beek.

This has more to do with running a business than beekeeping. Those that think otherwise fail.

The hobbyist is not afraid of competition like many commercial beeks are. If you ask them a question they will willingly tell you what they know and think on the subject. Some commercial beeks will too because they are not afraid of competition, they know how to run a business successfully, be it beekeeping or extermination.

At least 90% of all hobbyist (doesn’t matter what it is) that go into business to support their hobby fail. Their expectations don’t get realized and they loose all the fun that they attained when they got into the hobby. They were not businessmen and women they were hobbyists. One should not mix the other.

does that mean you should now start treating your next hives the way the commercial beeks do?

No one knows.

Which commercial beeks?

100% loss? wow!What do you think you did wrong?

Do you have any idea?

Maybe you do need to do what a particular commercial beek might do in your situation.

Sure many commercial beeks have known nothing else for generations.Others started as a hobbiest, grew to large commercial in one branch of it, then as they grew older cut back to hobby level again.

Both know the bees.Successful beekeeping is different than simply knowing how to be a successful business person.

I don't think any beekeeper would suggest a hobby beekeeper sell out their profitable, long term, franchise business and jump into large commercial scale beekeeping.

Just because someone has a MBA, knows how to manage people, deal with the public, meet payroll, pay taxes, vendors, balance the books and has a great bank account and has had some bees for awhile can they do only bees successfully.

It is like family farming - no time clocks.

What are your goals with the bees? What benefits do you hope to gain from them?