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The latest tidbit in date from the Code Geass universe (the source is the DVD-1 extra where Teacher!Lelouch makes (for a short moment, though...very short) Student!Suzaku revise Britannian history) states that the ATB ("Ascension Throne Britannia" - and not "After the Battle" as some put it) calendar started when Caesar tried to invade Britain but was met by a strong resistance from the local tribes, who elected a super-leader of their own - a king that eventually started the Britannian royal line.

If the Celtic tribes of Britain reacted to Caesar by appointing a strong unified leadership, then it's likely the conditions the infighting and anti-Roman attitudes of the dominant tribes that provoked Claudius to try again hundred years later never came about. The failure to conquer Britainnia would have had only a minor effect on Roman power, as Britain was only ever a minor backwater province during Roman times. But, a unified, independent and heavily Roman influenced Britannia (consisting of modern day England and Wales) would have emerged as a major power once the Roman Empire collapsed. The Anglo-Saxon invasions would certainly never have happened.

Beyond that we don't know much. Britannia must have conquered (or united with) Scotland at some point, given the reference to Edinburgh in episode 12. If Britannia gained control of Scotland before or during Tudor times as a result of these changes then the Civil War would either of never happened or would have been won by the royalists. No Cromwell, would mean no invasion of Ireland, which would mean no American Independence as described by Onizuka-GTO. I'm also liable to agree that Britannia lost Trafalgar because they didn't have Nelson, but don't ask why he wasn't there. All we know is that the seat of Britannian power shifted as a result from Britain to America, to the point where we don't even know if Britannia even control the British Isles.

Cecilia sais something about an area 18. It was in the desert, somewhere...

Then, it's logical to say that they conquered at least 17 country (Japan included).

Not really, They could have at one point have conquered 18 "Areas" but the reality could be that they have far less, as we know all Empires influence and control of geography terrain wanes & grow.

Also, while it may seem logical to name a newly conquered with an ascending numeric number, other logic dictates that it could easily be name in an numeric order depending on its geographic location/it's landmass with in it's defined national borders or even the resources/civil infrastructure/economy it has, at the time of the assessment or during or/and after the conquest.

In short, while it is generally agreed the B.E is a vast empire that could possibly rival or surpass the real life B.E. i.e. "The sun never sets in the British Empire"

There is no evidence to suggest that there are "18 Areas" of equal status.

As you can see, Britania is attacking Japan from different direction. That mean, they already have control of those rounded areas on the map before the start of the attack. Furthermore, the area 18 seems to be a desert. Then I doubt it is on one of those islands....

Then, logically, there is :

area 18 (desert unknow)
area 11 (Japan)
at least one more area (assuming all of those islands are only one area number).

That's why I said "at least more than 2 areas"

Don't worry, it's not mandatory for you (or anyone else) to agree with me...

As you can see, Britannia is attacking Japan from different direction. That mean, they already have control of those rounded areas on the map before the start of the attack. Furthermore, the area 18 seems to be a desert. Then I doubt it is on one of those islands....

Then, logically, there is :

area 18 (desert unknow)
area 11 (Japan)
at least one more area (assuming all of those islands are only one area number).

That's why I said "at least more than 2 areas"

Don't worry, it's not mandatory for you (or anyone else) to agree with me...

Nice, but unfortunately you missed a crucial factor, if those area you have labelled with question marks were part of the Britannica Empire, how come they were not marked in the same colour as the main North American continent, in that same khaki colour?

Those three areas are highly suspected because:

A) The far left area is coloured green, logically this is to show on a map of conquest the respected opposing forces.

B) The two remianing areas showed no land area, not even a spec.

To account for A. Can be easily deduced by observing modern military history, they can easily be an occupying base, situated in a country due to treaty agreements.

We can see that even today ,as there are many US Bases situated in other countries such as the UK, Germany and Japan, who can easily send out attacking forces.

This does not mean that these countries are part of the US.

Another possibilities is that those points were navy task fleets, movable bases, for the forces to attack from, as was seen in the Gulf War.

Simply put there is no evidence yet to support that there are more then 2 "Areas" except 11 & 18.

I guess they are not the same color simply because, they are assimilated, not the "home town" of the empire. In others words, they have not the same value as the north america.

Japan is in red because it's the current target.

Another thing : if you look carefully at this pic in the episode before the zoom out, you can read "Britania" . Why would they write that name if it was not a part of the empire ?

Quote:

Another possibilities is that those points were navy task fleets, movable bases, for the forces to attack from, as was seen in the Gulf War.

If it was just some navy force, they could have been attacked by the chinese federation nearby. That would cause some trouble when they don't need it. And as Cecilia say in a episode, they don't want a battle with the chinese now.

I guess they are not the same color simply because, they are assimilated, not the "home town" of the empire. In others words, they have not the same value as the north america.

So your saying, that that large landmass to the west of that map, that is coloured in Green, which we can deduced as the China, Cambodia, Indonesia, North & South Korea, Malaysia, and Far East Russia have all been "assimilated" by the Britannica Empire but are not of "equal" status, and thus from your logic they have been coloured differently?

so...what happened to the Chinese Federation?

No wait, I get you, the Chinese Federation must mean a Federation of CHINESE not INCLUDING China! Aha!
I see your logic!

No. actually, I don't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alucard24

Another thing : if you look carefully at this pic in the episode before the zoom out, you can read "Britania" . Why would they write that name if it was not a part of the empire ?

On a map of conquest, the line of advance, of each main individual forces will be obvious, however when line of invasion intersects on a territory not of its, own it is usually logical to label these advancing points to the different forces, as to inform the reader/viewer that they are part of the greater offensive from the B.E.

It is a simple reminder that those are bases or gathering of Britannica Forces in a country of location not claimed by them, but are allowing them to attack from.
This gives doubt to your claim that these areas are part of the B.E.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alucard24

If it was just some navy force, they could have been attacked by the chinese federation nearby. That would cause some trouble when they don't need it. And as Cecilia say in a episode, they don't want a battle with the chinese now.

Now this is a funny claim, by your own admission you stated that those landmass/countries from which the B.E. forces have attacked from, which is not specifically identified as B.E. aligned, you have stated are part of the B.E. but of not "equal" status, thus they have be marked with the differential marking "Green".

From my logical deduction, this means logically that a large portion of the far east, including China itself, either part of the B.E. or allies of unequal status who are willing to help the B.E. to attack Japan.

By this line of reasoning, this means that if those far south points were naval bases/task force they will not be threaten by the Chinese federation, because the surrounding area marked "green" is friendly territory.

hell even China is friendly.

Anway, if you have seen Episode 18, you would of noticed that Zero/lulu mentioned that if Japan had continued to struggle eventually the E.U. & Chinese Federation would of jumped in to contest for a piece of Japan. this is logical, as unless you have a specific defence treaty with the country being attacked, it is usually logical for opposing fractions who are at a technological disadvantage to assess the situation and precipitate when the opportunity arrives.

In all conflict there has not been one incident when an unrelated country has opposed another invasion force intended for a country they were not obliged to defend.

America did not jump to help Europe when Germany Attacked the UK, they waited until they saw that the Brits repelled the invasion.

however Britain joined the war, when its ally Poland was attacked, they were obliged by the defence treaty to come to it's defence.

So in conclusion, there is still no evidence that your theory holds any ground.

I have been following this topic for a while now, and while I find the discussion and speculation interesting, I think looking at the tangents between the Geass timeline and our own is necessary to get to the more interesting parts of the story's alternate history.

The split between our timelines is officially addressed in the DVD 1 script between Lelouch and Suzaku, when they discuss the origins of Britannia's history.

Taken from verity_isle at the Code Geass Livejournal community, cut for length:

Spoiler:

Lelouch-sensei's Britannian History Lecture

01: The Foundation of Britannia, Part the First

Lelouch: Thus went the first part.
Suzaku: ...You're the same as ever, Lelouch. But I think nobody understands what you meant with just 'thus'?
Lelouch: I have no business with people who can't understand. Only those prepared to learn are allowed to learn!
Suzaku: While I'm not so sure about saying Zero-like things... Oh, but on that point, you've always been easily influenced as a kid, right? I remember how you emulated this Tokusatsu hero---
Lelouch: S, shut up with that ancient history!
Suzaku: But I thought we're talking about history today? If we don't talk about the past, nothing can begin.
Lelouch: Ack..... If you're going to pep talk me, I'm leaving.
Suzaku: I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'll pay attention. Lelouch-Sensei.
Lelouch: Good. All right, maybe this is a little fast, but. Do you know when the Britannian Empire was founded, Suzaku?
Suzaku: Of course. The current year is 2017 ATB, so it's 2017 years ago.
Lelouch: So sorry you're wrong.
Suzaku: Huh? But, ATB--- 'Ascension Throne Britannia', isn't that 'the foundation of Britannia'?
Lelouch: Aha, seems you did your homework. Well done, well done.
Suzaku: It's just common sense. Anyway, I had to do some studying for the Honorary Britannian admission test, too.
Lelouch: Then, what about the foundation?
Suzaku: If I remember right...something about the time Julius Caesar tried to invade Britannia being the trigger, I guess, but...
Lelouch: Correct. A Celtic king stood against them, and from him began the line of the Britannian Royal Family. He won independence from the Romans, and was crowned king---though I suppose the correct way to put it would be 'chieftain of all tribes'. The count started in that same year. ...So, what's the name of that king?
Suzaku: Um..........I give up?
Lelouch: Oi, Suzaku! Can't you even get that into your head!? That’s going to be on the next test!?
Suzaku: Um, see, I was busy with work...uh.
Lelouch: Then look it up before the next time. Okay? We'll continue in Part the Second!

As silly as the conversation is intended to be, it is clear that the timeline of Code Geass begins at around 55 to 54 B.C., as speculated previously by others. They don’t give us a name for the Celtic king/chieftain, but this does mark the beginning of Throne Britannia.

History differences: Britain does not become a Roman Province, an absolute monarchy is established, and the Celtic tribes are unified. The Roman and Sub-Roman periods of Britain’s history are effectively eliminated, because of the obvious lack of Roman presence and influence.
History similarities: Well this is where everything should be completely different, because this era of British history was defined by Roman influence.

The Middle Ages have not been addressed by the writers of Code Geass, so it is impossible to determine how the timeline split affects this period of history. Everyone is free to speculate on this era.

History differences: Damned if I know.

Early Modern Britain (as the Wikipedia article calls it) has deviations apparent from the history lessons at Ashford Academy. The textbook from episode 7 gives us some insight as to what is happening here:

Taken from logi at the Code Geass Livejournal community:

Spoiler:

"... of Henry IX, son of the great [Elizabeth I?]...flourished as never before.
While other European countries stagnated assailed by waves of people's revolutions and parliamentarization, England held fast to absolute monarchy, and saw continued development through the reigns of King Henry X and Edward VI thanks to the wealth produced by the New World."

The journal entry speculates that Henry IX was the son of Elizabeth I, but this is unlikely to be the case. The textbook itself goes on to mention kings such as Henry X and Edward VI, the former of which is fictional and the latter of which died at age sixteen. If the monarchy following the Wars of the Roses remains unaltered from our own timeline, then Henry VIII of the Geass timeline would be the same as the Henry VIII of our own. The information points to this conclusion because of the existence of Edward VI, whose history is only altered that he lived to reign rather than having died young.

Henry IX and X could then be assumed to be heirs of either Catherine of Aragon or Anne Boleyn, or one from each. They can also be speculated to be the children of these marriages that did not survive into adulthood, and Geass history merely rewrote them as Henry IX and Henry X. Edward VI was the heir to the throne from Jane Seymour, and Geass rewrites history so that he lives and has a prosperous reign.

Aside from an altered family tree for the Tudor family, the textbook mentions that the English absolute monarchy remained as such, while the rest of Europe was in the midst of revolution and “parliamentarization”. This is also a far departure from our timeline in that Britain was actually one of the first countries to have a system of parliament, dating back officially to Henry III. Take note however, that royal supremacy was restored at about the time Henry VIII came to the throne, and the parliament behaved submissively under his rule. Perhaps the parliament was dissolved by the king? Or did it never exist at all? I’ll leave it to the Geass writers to tell us that.

Furthermore, as much as the textbook makes Britannia superior for maintaining order and prosperity at the time, it outlines the foundations of what many of us might believe to be the EU, similar to our own European Union of today. Why would this version of Europe become the EU? Europe at this point in history was a collection of various monarchies in a great struggle to control colonization. Geass history paints the picture so that the rest of Europe was more politically progressive than Britain, which is the stark opposite of how it was in ours.

The text mentions the New World, which Western culture knows as the Americas during the Age of Discovery. We can then assume that Britain as this point is in control of colonies at this time, similar to how the British Empire also began colonization at this period of history. We know by history of the colonies of Newfoundland, the Thirteen Colonies comprising the original United States, Canada’s Atlantic Provinces, and Britain’s claims to the Caribbean at Barbados and Jamaica. There are also the various colonies controlled by other countries of Europe, but there are far too many for me to list. For how I will explain Britain’s later history, let’s just assume that Britain still controls its colonies up until the American Revolution, where many feel that the greatest tangent lies.

History differences: The altered line of kings (Henry IX, Henry X, Edward VI), less progressive Britain and the absence of Parliament in Brittanian history, and a more progressive Europe earlier in history.
History similarities: Colonization continues for both Britain and Europe.

I'll get to how Britainnia ended up in the America in another post when I've thought about it some more, although the alternate results of the Battle of Trafalgar play a role in that. The parallels between Geass history and the history of Modern Britain are where it'll get tough, especially in regard to technology during the World Wars, if they ever happened the way we know they did.

So your saying, that that large landmass to the west of that map, that is coloured in Green, which we can deduced as the China, Cambodia, Indonesia, North & South Korea, Malaysia, and Far East Russia have all been "assimilated" by the Britannica Empire but are not of "equal" status, and thus from your logic they have been coloured differently?

No I didn't say that. All I said is it's doubtfull that Britania launched the attack from a country who isn't assimilated because

1. that country may not be really happy with that and that could cause a little war (win Britania of course)
2. Britania isn't the kind of empire to ask nicely other country to lend them some part of their territory, they'll take the entire country in one shot, that's easier
3. China would not be happy with that and like I said earlier, if it was only a fleet without other support far away any base of the empire, it would be easy for the china to attack them due to proximity.

Quote:

It is a simple reminder that those are bases or gathering of Britannica Forces in a country of location not claimed by them, but are allowing them to attack from.
This gives doubt to your claim that these areas are part of the B.E.

If it's like that, then that's mean this map isn't completely accurate because there is another name on this country (imagine if the US writed US Army on Europe.... Even if they have base there, this isn't the america...). Wich mean, the colors are not representative either : no such thing as a color for "friends" and another one for enemy. They just changed the color of the capital and of the target and that's all

btw, no I didn't see the 18 for now.

@random : I think you could be right. It would make senses that Bratina and Europe have kept their colonies. I would even say that it will be strange for Britania for not take them back (if they ever lost them). As for the Great Britain, they would definitively recover it, just because of pride.

Last edited by Alucard24; 2007-02-23 at 07:43.
Reason: answer to random

No I didn't say that. All I said is it's doubtfull that Britania launched the attack from a country who isn't assimilated because

1. that country may not be really happy with that and that could cause a little war (win Britania of course)
2. Britania isn't the kind of empire to ask nicely other country to lend them some part of their territory, they'll take the entire country in one shot, that's easier
3. China would not be happy with that and like I said earlier, if it was only a fleet without other support far away any base of the empire, it would be easy for the china to attack them due to proximity.

If it's like that, then that's mean this map isn't completely accurate because there is another name on this country (imagine if the US writed US Army on Europe.... Even if they have base there, this isn't the america...). Wich mean, the colors are not representative either : no such thing as a color for "friends" and another one for enemy. They just changed the color of the capital and of the target and that's all

btw, no I didn't see the 18 for now.

@random : I think you could be right. It would make senses that Bratina and Europe have kept their colonies. I would even say that it will be strange for Britania for not take them back (if they ever lost them). As for the Great Britain, they would definitively recover it, just because of pride.

okay, i agree, this map isn't accurate. Therefore if we had to speculate on how many geographic areas that were conquered by the Britannica Empire, the answer still comes back to square one.

Area 11 and Area 18.

Thank you for talking round in circles.

As for time of conquest I hear from some where that that if you calculate that 55 BC was the starting point, that the current time which is 2017ATC is roughly 1962.

Now if that's true, then it will explain why they have the current situation, we can tentatively conclude that at ONE world war occurred as the British never would of developed the Tank, if they were not stuck in a lengthy war, to bring about such accelerated push in military technology.

Now lets just imagine, that if the First world war occurred but but slightly differently, as in it would of been the B.E versus the EU/Austria-Hungary, Bulgaria, the German Empire & Ottoman Empire.
but from the Americas with vastly more man power,it could influence the way the defence Treaty that laid the seeds to the Great War. The only reason the Great War fell to the Alliance was the fall of Imperial Russia, if Russia never had the Communist revolution, and was in fact an Ally to the Central Power, it could be conceive that the Great War could actually continued way into the early 1930's.

Concluding in the victory of the Central Powers forming the Core of the European Union, this would forsaken the tragic misgiving of a certain Jewish soldier with a grudge against Germany...

This either throws off the Second World War, delay it (hence the 30yrs later), or what we are seeing now is still a low intensity Second World War in widely distributed skirmishes between the three main powers. All this means is that the second huge push in technological advancement would be delayed and hence no nuclear weapons.