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ya arguments getting crossed... got a little confused since you were replying to someone who was replying to Ceazar's comment that Kallen did "Unforgivable" things

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Originally Posted by Ceazar Vi Brittania

But that's not what I meant, You see I personally hate her ever since she abandoned LL at stage 25, and the way she is towards britannia in general. A bit hypocrite, she is one day best friends with nunally and gino and then she is a bitch to suzaku and homicide genius, it's very "selective" in her hate to britannia.

So it's wrong to say "not all britanians are evil"?
What Kallen is doing is not hypocritical, as she has never claimed that ALL Britanians are evil, must be destroyed and so forth.

Just because they are britanians does not mean that Kallen must be blind to their better qualities and able to except that they are not evil. Nunnally has never done anything to deserve anyone's hatred and has actually been the one of the most supportive people for the japanese (hell she did all she could to make sure kallen was well treated)... Gino, while he may be one of the knights of the round when he met with kallen he was actually looking out for her best interests (while suzaku was threatning to drug her, and the homicidal maniac was threatening to kill her; not to mention though she kind of likes him, she's still more than willing to take him down on the battlefield. Hating them based on nothing more than the fact that they are "britanian" would be the equal of nina's hate for the japanese. That kind of thinking would be down right racist...

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Well, If they have a bit a memory, Kirihara saw zero's true identity and told them to trust in them, he was at the time, a very japanese idol to the terrorists and there was Ougi, kallen, tamaki and other important OBK present at the time.

Then you have Urabe who was a "holy sword", after finding zero was a student and a britannian (prince wasn't so clear at the time) student, he was all like "who cares", without Zero we are reduced to recycle garbage. Kallen was most likely aware of the fact that he was a prince and she also said she didn't trust "the likes of him", but she was willing to follow zero even if he was who he is.

Sure not EVERYONE would abandon zero, but most will... Do you think the rest of the world "the non-japanese" cares what the kyoto-group thinks? even the japanese may question the groups judgement... many may not even know the specifics of the meeting, just that it resulted in getting the group's support... Kallen was friends with Lelouche for a while and knew him a bit more personally and that is something that would easily sway her to stay by his side

Urabe if i recall did not know he was a prince... He is willing to believe that a youth could be a great leader since zero has proven himself as such, and he also acknowledges that not all britanian's are the same and that there are those that would acknowledge that what britania was doing was wrong... when it comes down to it, a Britanian student has nothing to selfishly gain from fighting a war against britania (atleast nothing more than any other person fighting them); a Britanian prince on the other hand can easily be seen as someone who just wants the throne for himself... Zero did not trust him with this secret, so why should they trust his motives and reasons

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He destroyed a unarmed facility full of researchers experimenting on immortal soldiers "Is the official statement". So you are saying they can destroy the babel tower to make an escape killing civilians along the way (at least no OBK knew that they've been already killed ), but it's a sacrilege to kill Britannian unarmed people . Yeah that makes sense, specially to a former terrorist group.

The truth behind the "offical statement" will be in question now that Zero is being exposed as a man who keeps secrets and lies to his own people; not to mention that fact that they did not find any "immortal soldiers"... and the question will be raised if it was necessary to kill all of them as opposed to capture; the nature of the facility and what needed to be done will be in great question. Without knowledge of the geass, the attack looks like it was a senseless slaughter (especially when you consider the fact that children were among the slaughter)... really, we already have seen that many of zero's soldiers were not happy with that battle and many like todou would share such feelings

While Todou and others are willing to stay by zero's side because of how far he has gotten them, their opinions do not take into account to the degree of zero's actions. They do not know of his connection to the emperor, his slaughter of the researchers, the reason he abandoned them in the first season sacrificing the whole rebellion, the list just goes on... they can not deny that he is a strategic genius, but all this will tell them that he is not the kind of leader they want... with the success of the battle in japan that will trigger revolts and rebellions around the world, some may BELIEVE that they don't need Zero as much as they once did now that they have military strength that rivals Britania... they may see that zero got them where they are, but they can no longer be sure of his motives; what's the point of a revolution if it gives you king that's as bad as the last one... as one soldier said "what makes us any different than the britanians"

The truth behind the "offical statement" will be in question now that Zero is being exposed as a man who keeps secrets and lies to his own people

Zero wears a mask... What's so surprising about him keeping secrets? Do people think his mask is glued to his head?

A masked man who have an unknown motivation is far more risky a person to work with than someone whom you know the motivation. Knowing that he is a Britannian Prince makes it easier to work with him, not less.

I still don't think Nunnally/sayako crew bite the dust yet, she was on a plane a comfortable long amount of time before Suzaku fired the freya. Also freya ver 1.0 is not a spontaneous explosion, it took several minutes to kick off the chain reaction = more time to fly away.

Which brings me back to why Cornelia > Kallen for one episode she made Zero tactics look like crap .

That's a dumb comparison. We already know Cornelia's leadership skills are better than Kallen's, but Zero had nothing to do with that. Anyways, that one instance where Zero's plans failed before hers was because his soldiers weren't following his orders--it wasn't Ohgi and Kallen's group that time.

So it's wrong to say "not all britanians are evil"?
What Kallen is doing is not hypocritical, as she has never claimed that ALL Britanians are evil, must be destroyed and so forth.

Me and my incomplete examples, well yeah maybe. Still I think she's got a brother complex and she forced herself to hate britannia cause she needed someone to blame for his death. You can see in one of the drama books she was smart when just a little kid and they all wanted a better life for her, but she forced herself into this and sometimes she is all " Die britannia" not really caring about who is good and evil, and other times she is like "Some are nice so why do i hate them so much". Then nisan complex pops out and she goes again "Die britannia". That's being hypocrite with herself.

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Just because they are britanians does not mean that Kallen must be blind to their better qualities and able to except that they are not evil.

Yeah, like she stopped to think about euphemia better qualities, being that she was trying the SAZ, then Euphy"kills" japanese and there she goes hating the "massacre princess" cause everyone does. She will find out later that it was all lelouch doings (I mean how come knowing about geass hasn't she realised it already), AND she will forgive him because she doesn't even know why she hates britannia herself. I know that if she did she won't forgive LL no matter what and I will eat my words.......but that ain't gonna happen.

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(while suzaku was threatning to drug her, and the homicidal maniac was threatening to kill her; not to mention though she kind of likes him, she's still more than willing to take him down on the battlefield. Hating them based on nothing more than the fact that they are "britanian" would be the equal of nina's hate for the japanese. That kind of thinking would be down right racist...

Ok she hates the psycho, I agree. But you know she doesn't really hates susaku because of the drug but rather because she feels he is the cause of everything that has been wrong with the rebellion and blames him for it, even worse she still thinks of him as a Japanese and I think she likes the dude in a way, and that's what makes her angry

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Sure not EVERYONE would abandon zero, but most will... Do you think the rest of the world "the non-japanese" cares what the kyoto-group thinks? even the japanese may question the groups judgement... many may not even know the specifics of the meeting, just that it resulted in getting the group's support... Kallen was friends with Lelouche for a while and knew him a bit more personally and that is something that would easily sway her to stay by his side

That's why I told you he couldn't say he was a prince to the non japanese people, but even then the OBK is the same as Britannia in their chain of command, so if Ougi and Toudou were to side with him like they did before, It doesn't really matters what a million shit scumbags think of him and his secrets ....so they would suck it up and follow him anyway.

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a Britanian prince on the other hand can easily be seen as someone who just wants the throne for himself... Zero did not trust him with this secret, so why should they trust his motives and reasons

They keep saying that but that's not true. Diethard would somehow manipulate everything to make it like he wants to overthrow britannia's darwinism system, given that "Lelouch Vi britannia himself claimed to give up his place as a prince at an early age, to the emperor and every witness at the time ", meaning he wasn't after the throne in any sort of way. Plus I think there is an unspoken rule to compete with your brothers but never kill royalty as Schneizel hinted somewhere. And Zero has killed them.

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The truth behind the "offical statement" will be in question now that Zero is being exposed as a man who keeps secrets and lies to his own people; not to mention that fact that they did not find any "immortal soldiers"... and the question will be raised if it was necessary to kill all of them as opposed to capture; the nature of the facility and what needed to be done will be in great question

.

But all they have now is useless data, asahina is death or missing and the dude with a name is also dead so who exactly will tell everyone they didn't find anything? It's all up to Toudou to betray him now I think.

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they may see that zero got them where they are, but they can no longer be sure of his motives; what's the point of a revolution if it gives you king that's as bad as the last one... as one soldier said "what makes us any different than the britanians"

Well that is described with only one word "Ungrateful bastards" (two actually). And please everyone in power is corrupted at the end, no matter how noble the ideals were in the first place, if they don't know that, they weren't even worth LL's time and effort.......although he was only using them

it could be because of all the communications being fried and also because of the bomb that went off causing a disturbance

Except Lelouch was also RIGHT NEXT to the Blast and had to be pushed or he would have been caught up in the blast. And whats the next thinhg he did? Used the radio to contaact rolo. Plus when you see a pan of the area, you dont see any nunally ship anywhere.

Im not saying she is dead for sure, but theres no she could have gotten out of there by traditional means.

it could be because of all the communications being fried and also because of the bomb that went off causing a disturbance

Except Lelouch was also RIGHT NEXT to the Blast and had to be pushed or he would have been caught up in the blast. And whats the next thing he did? Used the radio to contact rolo. Plus when you see a pan of the area, you dont see any nunally ship anywhere.

Im not saying she is dead for sure, but theres no she could have gotten out of there by traditional means.

Me and my incomplete examples, well yeah maybe. Still I think she's got a brother complex and she forced herself to hate britannia cause she needed someone to blame for his death. Yo can see in one of the dram books she was smart and they all wanted a better life for her, but she forced herself into this and sometimes she is all " Die britannia" not really caring about who is good and evil, and other times ahe is like "they are nice so why do i get them so much". Then nisan complex pops out and she goes again "Die britannia".

Haven't read the book, but what is she saying the nice things to? The Student Council? She hates the system, not the people. The army represents the system, which is why she just calls her opponents "Britannia."

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Originally Posted by Ceazar Vi Brittania

Yeah, like she stopped to think abot euphemia better qualities, being that she was trying the SAZ, then Euphy "kills" japanese and there she goes hating the "massacre princess". She will find out later that it was all lelouch doings (I mean how come knowing about geass hasn't she realised it already), AND she will forgive him because she doesn't even know why she hates britannia. I know if she did she won't forgive LL no matter what and I will eat my words.......but that ain't gonna happen.

What does she know about Euphy? They've never met except the one time and Zero had her at gunpoint. The royal family is the epitome of the system she hates. As for the massacre, she knows Lelouch is responsible. She was listening when Suzaku said it. Furthermore, she knows who Lelouch is and what he can do from C.C.