tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17340756.post5839876376645770362..comments2016-12-07T01:46:17.403-08:00Comments on HARDCORE ZEN: YET AGAIN MORE SNAPPY ANSWERSBrad Warnerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13273179722564495744noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17340756.post-71602061000873448492007-11-10T15:53:00.000-08:002007-11-10T15:53:00.000-08:00So who is the one suffering and who is the one tak...<I>So who is the one suffering and who is the one taking meds??</I><BR/><BR/>Even answering that question will not end your problems.Jinzanghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04155467948613318531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17340756.post-48776426866001842392007-11-10T12:15:00.000-08:002007-11-10T12:15:00.000-08:00So who is the one suffering and who is the one tak...<I>So who is the one suffering and who is the one taking meds??</I><BR/><BR/>As you already know, each could be either or both.aumeyehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01276658115780033650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17340756.post-9597190873129018212007-11-10T11:58:00.000-08:002007-11-10T11:58:00.000-08:00So who is the one suffering and who is the one tak...So who is the one suffering and who is the one taking meds??Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17340756.post-30013484870163647572007-11-10T08:37:00.000-08:002007-11-10T08:37:00.000-08:00I agree with much of what esmeralda_verde said on ...I agree with much of what esmeralda_verde said on this topic. I, too, am familiar with the many potential negative effects of these now well-discussed meds. It's just that, in my circle, none (well, one is having some difficulty) of the people on them are suffering those ill effects . . . fortunately.<BR/><BR/>I especially like your point, esmerelda, about supplementing whatever treatment one is receiving with meditation and exercise. <BR/><BR/>Realizing that each person's situation is, potentially, dramatically different from anyone else's, is vital. Also, I think the idea asserted by Jinzang, of exploring other means of treating a psychological problem is one that needs to be adopted by more professionals.<BR/><BR/>I also have a fuller knowledge about some of this than I did a long time ago, as it is directly related to my educational and professional experience. This is not meant to say that I am an expert and so my opinion has more weight than some others; it's merely intended to instruct anyone bothering to read my opinion that I am not entirely ignorant to the intricacies and complexities of the matter.<BR/><BR/>Still, we are all pretty knowledgeable about such things from our own experiences, the experiences of those we know, and the things we hear, see, and read from a wide variety sources.<BR/><BR/>There are some divergent and well-articulated opinions on the topic, clearly reflected on this blog. It is relatively young field that is evolving at a rapid pace; so I think it's an important dialogue to maintain. It helps all of us to better understand and attend to our own struggles and the struggles of others.aumeyehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01276658115780033650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17340756.post-3099180831378834252007-11-09T21:25:00.000-08:002007-11-09T21:25:00.000-08:00Excuse the crummy spelling on the previous post, i...Excuse the crummy spelling on the previous post, it's after midnight here. I am sitting at work watching the mainframe run my jobs very very slowly. Anyone know good psych meds for an IBM TSO/MVS operating system?esmerelda_verdehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15754626514395977464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17340756.post-2519238210188645142007-11-09T21:17:00.000-08:002007-11-09T21:17:00.000-08:00Wow, I guess we are the nutberger site but at lea...Wow, I guess we are the nutberger site but at least we aren't boring.<BR/><BR/>Aumeye, I know some people, not everyone I know, who are or used to be on antidepressants etc. One side effect I would consider majorly serious, if not apparent is loss of interest in sex. Another is being too happy. Gaining tons of weight. A third is suicide attempts. My boyfriend's brother has been on meds for years, he hasn't been able to hold a job and is now homeless, he has an MBA, used to be a banker. My best friend and her husband are going the same route. This is hardly a scientific sample but t research not funded by a drug company, indicates that sometimes they work and sometimes they make things worse or produce side effects the patient cannot tolerate. <BR/><BR/>I think getting drugs or other treatment properly adjusted to the patient is as you and Jinzang suggest the key. <BR/><BR/>It should not be an either/or choice. The New York Times has run a number of articles from the NE Journal of Medicine sudies show that improvements in diet and excercise and counseling combined with meds work better than meds alone. Adding a little Zen to the mix will probably kick it up a bit. Actually my friend's shrink suggested exercise and meditation, sadly she ignored the idea.<BR/><BR/>PS I don't know any thing about ME but I have 2 friends with MS both of whom have been doing restoritive yoga and meditation which seems to help a lot.esmerelda_verdehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15754626514395977464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17340756.post-39669585384213723472007-11-09T21:06:00.000-08:002007-11-09T21:06:00.000-08:00I hope your movie premiere and concert went well B...I hope your movie premiere and concert went well Brad. Wish I could have made it up there.Lone Wolfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07739255494988270462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17340756.post-17706145710228116552007-11-09T20:18:00.000-08:002007-11-09T20:18:00.000-08:00And from the decider in chief:"I hear the voices, ...And from the decider in chief:<BR/><BR/>"I hear the voices, and I read <BR/>the front page, and I know the speculation. But I'm the decider, <BR/>and I decide what is best."<BR/><BR/>--George W. BushGerry Gomezhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10102564350484524462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17340756.post-72831244848322782152007-11-09T20:13:00.000-08:002007-11-09T20:13:00.000-08:00"Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad wo..."Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness."<BR/><BR/>--Blaise PascalGerry Gomezhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10102564350484524462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17340756.post-90464087649842994792007-11-09T16:43:00.000-08:002007-11-09T16:43:00.000-08:00Sometime depression can be resolved through life c...Sometime depression can be resolved through life changes such as diet, exercise, and meditation. Other times not, It's irresponsible to suggest a course of treatment for any serious illness without seeing and talking to the person who has it. Each person is different and each case of depression is different. <BR/><BR/>There are more options to treat depression than brown rice and veggies or SSRIs. Find out about them.Jinzanghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04155467948613318531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17340756.post-66257966269123401552007-11-09T13:43:00.000-08:002007-11-09T13:43:00.000-08:00At the moment, I cannot think of one person I know...At the moment, I cannot think of one person I know who is not on some kind of antidepressant or anti-anxiety medication. I am the odd one out; and I'm not so sure that my resisting is such a good thing.<BR/><BR/>The beneficial effects for many of them is observable. And there are little, if any, apparent negative effects. I do agree that drugs are prescribed more often than they should be. However, I do not support the idea that they should be so readily dismissed as a means of helping someone to find relief from the often debilitating effects of anxiety and depression.<BR/><BR/>There are a multitude of theories about what causes these problems, and unless we have fully examined all of them, and then assessed each case, I don't feel we are in a strong enough position to determine the right course of action for any individual sufferer.<BR/><BR/>Whatever gets you through the night; it's all right; it's all right.aumeyehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01276658115780033650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17340756.post-47184497091167354852007-11-09T13:39:00.000-08:002007-11-09T13:39:00.000-08:00Anonymous said..."a purging effect"Now HERE is a c...Anonymous said...<BR/>"a purging effect"<BR/><BR/>Now HERE is a clue!<BR/><BR/>Seriously, try steamed rice - which you then thin even more with a little boiling water and either a little chicken or beef broth - which YOU make (no packaged stuff).<BR/><BR/>Get whatever is cheapest - but organic (e.g. wings) and low boil them until all the meat and cartilage falls off the bones. Cool so you can separate and discard all the floating fat and skin (where most of the chemicals are). You need to 'calm your gut.'<BR/><BR/>When you first go on a diet, it's tough. But after 3-4 weeks, it's easier. At age 60, I managed to shed 30+ pounds in just over 7 months and feel a whole lot better!<BR/><BR/>My clue was sitting Zazen became more difficult and (unlike many others) I accepted sitting in a chair, <A HREF="http://www.dharma.net/monstore/category.php?cPath=104_105&cPage=testimonials" REL="nofollow">over sized Zafu</A>, or standing meditation as more or less the same thing. All have their place, but Zazen is really the best way to experience "<A HREF="http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=12321" REL="nofollow">The Hour of the Wolf</A>." Sorry, I was kidding with that last comment, 'the Vargtimmen' or wolf time is just that twilight time before sunrise. It is best to finish Zazen meditation just before the sun appears. I was otherwise twisted by watching <A HREF="http://www.bergmanorama.com/films/hour_of_the_wolf.htm" REL="nofollow">all of the Bergman films</A>.<BR/><BR/>PAX & LUX<BR/>0-cha-ryuMysterionhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12649237112389489841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17340756.post-39495846456736603302007-11-09T12:07:00.000-08:002007-11-09T12:07:00.000-08:00First marketing talks us in to eating high fat, hi...First marketing talks us in to eating high fat, high calorie food, laced with chemicals, driving cars even when we could walk, wanting expensive toys so we have to keep our high stress jobs. Then when we become ill it sells us a magic pill. Clearly America is the best of all possible worlds. <BR/><BR/>PS Its kind of catch 22 to expect mentally ill people to avoid psych med hype from the big pharma. I had a physical problem and it took me 8 months to get past the prescription first, diagnosis second treatment. <BR/><BR/>PPS the only drugs I use are the ones in coffee and chocolate.esmerelda_verdehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15754626514395977464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17340756.post-27213794932660678922007-11-09T09:44:00.000-08:002007-11-09T09:44:00.000-08:00thanks for your advice Mysterion. I don't know abo...thanks for your advice Mysterion. I don't know about celexa but as for fair trade I can't drink coffee anyway, even de-cafe has a purging effect on me! Like redbush/roobosh<BR/><BR/>Diet is one thing I'm trying to reach a balance on, tend to swing to one extreme or the other but the pendulum is slowing :o)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17340756.post-90217926203220844272007-11-09T09:20:00.000-08:002007-11-09T09:20:00.000-08:00Myalgic Encephalomyelitis"No treatment has been pr...Myalgic Encephalomyelitis<BR/>"No treatment has been proven to benefit patients with M.E. in large randomized controlled trials."<BR/><BR/>The chemicals that factory farms pump into beef and chicken end up in our gut - unless we avoid them.<BR/><BR/>I would seriously look first at diet. Avoid foods that are laced with chemicals when they are grown and processed. The good ol' Hindu diet.<BR/><BR/>Carbs create energy - but not over processed carbs (e.g. avoid white breads, cookies and cakes).<BR/><BR/>I would suggest low fat Chili beans over steamed rice a couple of times a week... We eat tofu with five pepper spice & soy sauce with glutinous short grain rice. Unfortunately, the human gut is a little too long for meat and a little too short for a purely vegetarian diet. Some boiled (never fried) organically grown meats may be necessary.<BR/><BR/>I'm not going to advocate a generic '<A HREF="http://www.medhelp.org/posts/show/312858" REL="nofollow">Celexa 10mg</A>' in the short term (E.G. 6 MONTHS). Consult your physicians about that. Always get 2 opinions.<BR/><BR/>Coffee and red tea is the best hype. Get <A HREF="http://www.organicconsumers.org/Organic/faircoffee.cfm" REL="nofollow">organic free trade shade grown coffee</A>. Help with the ethical treatment of coffee farmers!Mysterionhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12649237112389489841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17340756.post-91887569348369483672007-11-08T13:59:00.000-08:002007-11-08T13:59:00.000-08:00Wow loads of thoughts on medication and zazen eh? ...Wow loads of thoughts on medication and zazen eh? Any thoughts on ME and the use of zen/meditation to help it?<BR/><BR/>I have been diagnosed with ME, have been pushed amitriptyline for pain etc but aren't happy about it.<BR/><BR/>Sitting zazen I find very beneficial, but have to kneel on a bench, and it helps me to deal with the reality that is me with ME.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17340756.post-69693526935179794972007-11-08T11:29:00.000-08:002007-11-08T11:29:00.000-08:00Blake said..."the overuse of Prozac "that's just t...Blake said...<BR/>"the overuse of Prozac "<BR/><BR/>that's just the tip of the iceberg.<BR/><BR/>we are over medicating almost every person in the U.S. for almost everything.<BR/><BR/>PHARMAs rule the US government - they bought and paid for it.<BR/><BR/>Exercise and diet. Exercise and diet. Exercise and diet. Exercise and diet. Exercise and diet. Exercise and diet.Mysterionhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12649237112389489841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17340756.post-21175121426075430682007-11-08T10:49:00.000-08:002007-11-08T10:49:00.000-08:00Something else that needs to be looked at is the o...Something else that needs to be looked at is the overuse of Prozac has resulted in it being in our water supply. Prozac is water-soluble and the treatment plants are not equipped to remove it. And I'm sure you all remember your water cycles from grade school science? Well, we pee it out, it gets scrubbed, dumped, evaporated and then shows back up in our drinking water. Who knows what the eventual effect will be?<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.webmd.com/depression/news/20040810/prozac-in-drinking-water-likely-so" REL="nofollow">Citation</A>Blakehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11757839370870371917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17340756.post-91938996876257997162007-11-08T09:02:00.000-08:002007-11-08T09:02:00.000-08:00Ellen said..."Does strike anyone else as funny tha...Ellen said...<BR/>"Does strike anyone else as funny that all these comments on experiences with mental illness"<BR/><BR/>Yep. 15 years ago, my neighbor, across the street, heard voices in his engine and took his car completely apart in his driveway. The police? They knocked on my door as Hisa-chan and I are block captains for home alert. Yep, he had been missing his MEDs for a few days (the voices told him he didn't need his MEDs).<BR/><BR/>So we had him put on a <A HREF="http://www.toddlertime.com/advocacy/5150/rights/seclusion-and-restraint-12.htm" REL="nofollow">72 hour 5150</A> and medicated while a couple of neighbors cleaned up his old car.<BR/><BR/>As a person who worked with 'educational psychologists' and young adults for almost 25 years, I can say: "The average kid is a statistical anomaly."<BR/><BR/>I have long been an advocate of a '<A HREF="http://newsinitiative.org/story/2007/08/02/essay_take_a_breath" REL="nofollow">quiet time</A>' of 5 or 10 minutes in the public school system but right wingnuts consider it Buddhist Cult stuff. However, such a quiet time would go a long way in instilling self-control in our young people.Mysterionhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12649237112389489841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17340756.post-34298574923025812902007-11-07T20:55:00.000-08:002007-11-07T20:55:00.000-08:00Does strike anyone else as funny that all these co...Does strike anyone else as funny that all these comments on experiences with mental illness and "crazymeds" are on the blog that Brad described thusly in his I Get Letters post: "The comments section here is like a visit to the nut house"?Ellenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18312108165263030268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17340756.post-16713994191457025672007-11-07T08:50:00.000-08:002007-11-07T08:50:00.000-08:00Looking forward to meeting you tonight in Akron. ...Looking forward to meeting you tonight in Akron. I gotta make the trip down from Cleveland during rush hour, so I hope I don't miss your opening plate-spinning skit :)<BR/><BR/>I'll be the long-haired dude that will look really out of place in a public library.Mr. Desmondhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00016640285075967303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17340756.post-5544074016930075142007-11-06T17:28:00.000-08:002007-11-06T17:28:00.000-08:00Brad gets profiled by the Ohio press.Brad gets profiled by the <A HREF="http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=9,5338,0,0,1,0" REL="nofollow">Ohio press</A>.Jinzanghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04155467948613318531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17340756.post-71734896541092637202007-11-06T17:24:00.000-08:002007-11-06T17:24:00.000-08:00dood: good idea. besides its Fun to be pissed and ...dood: good idea. besides its Fun to be pissed and its fun to piss off!<BR/><BR/>-anonyMouseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17340756.post-37179074837189558352007-11-06T13:01:00.000-08:002007-11-06T13:01:00.000-08:00"who says there is a limit to how may posts on a s..."who says there is a limit to how may posts on a single blog your'er allowed to have in a day? so uh yeah, PISS OFF, buddy. mysterion has as much a right as anyone else to post as often as they want here. besides, his post keep it interesting between brad's wisdoms of the day."<BR/><BR/>who says i have to read any of this BS? (buddhist shit)<BR/><BR/>and who says we all can't PISS OFF?<BR/><BR/>take care <BR/>ddoodhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04965705281064437792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17340756.post-25286843116444881092007-11-06T12:06:00.000-08:002007-11-06T12:06:00.000-08:00Anon- Hats off to you for all your effort in worki...Anon- Hats off to you for all your effort in working with your body/mind condition! I wish you increasing awareness. Take Care...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com