Welcome

Welcome to the POZ/AIDSmeds Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and
others concerned about HIV/AIDS. Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the
conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning: Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive
and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a
username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own
physician.

All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators
of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ/AIDSmeds community forums.

We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please
provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are
true and correct to their knowledge.

Author
Topic: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com (Read 63784 times)

I have read all of your replies. I will tell you that yesterday afternoon I received a phone call from someone identifying themselves as "Giovanni" from Poz Magazine. I had recently issued a Press Release for the website in an effort to get more members. I thought Poz Magazine was reaching out to interview me, as I had done two earlier newspaper interviews. I was excited about the possibility of being interviewed by Poz Magazine. When I reached "Giovanni" I was informed that Poz Magazine had seen the press release and the someone identified as "the Boss" had contacted Giovanni to inform me that we were infringing on their Trademark and would I change it to thinkpos.com. I was caught off guard, and questioned how Poz Magazine could feel that they owned the three letters poz in any form. I was offered a subscription to the magazine and I told them I would have to get back to them. This is my last post. I did post on this website a few times, in fact, I invited Mr.Peter Staley to justtestedpositive.com, and he visited it. I note that I thought we were on the same side at the time from Mr. Staley's response, which was:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Nice job on the new website! And thanks for the links to our forums and poz.com/aidsmeds.com!

Peter

I did change the name when we went to the more Social Web Community Type Website. I didnt want to alienate people who had been poz for a long time. I don't recall posting about thinkpoz.com here. I think someone else did, and I may had made some comments to their post. I am a member on this website and I don't understand why people are so upset about me telling others about the site...dont we share information of this type? I've seen numerous links to websites here. However, I dont think that is the issue. So, you have my side. Hopefully they will not follow through and take any legal action, but if they do, so be it. Hopefully, they will realize that the two sites are different, just as the names Poz Magazine and thinkpoz.com are different. Well, I don't wanna be on this site anymore. Goodbye.

The creation of a website with the word poz in it, would create no confusion between the site and POZ magazine. While I commend Ray on his efforts (and I just joined the site), I am very confused on how S&S could even construe that they somehow own the word "poz". The term has been in use for so long that like Moffie said, the word has become part of the public domain. S&S can copyright and TM their own magazine and website, but surely they have no power to force anyone to drop the term poz from an endeavor that is not trying to create confusion between a site name and this site, nor POZ magaine.

However, we do not have all the facts and until we do, we are just barking at the moon.

Again, this was a phone call from someone claiming to be with poz magazine. And all they did was ask if he would change it. They didnt threaten legal action from what I read. I would think they make this call dozens of times to try and minimize those with a name similar to theirs. Happens every day in the business world. Again, I doubt this goes ANY further than a simple call that said hey would you mind changing it. To which Ray said no, so "Giovanni" says to his boss, its a no go sir, now what did you need me to do this afternoon regarding blah blah blah.

Im sure it wont escalate into the big legal drama of the first post. While it may SEEM rude, it is a fairly common business practice. As hard as Ray as worked on his site and getting the word out, the people that started POZ and AIDSMEDS were there once too. Do they not deserve the same respect for what they have built?

Two sides, always two sides.

Logged

LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

I would say because they dont have to comment. This probably ISNT a big deal outside of Ray's world. It certainly won't affect what is going on in here. We can raise all the conspiracy theories we want. But none of us know whats going on.

Two sides, always two sides. (maybe i can trademark that)

Logged

LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

I would say because they dont have to comment. This probably ISNT a big deal outside of Ray's world. It certainly won't affect what is going on in here. We can raise all the conspiracy theories we want. But none of us know whats going on.

Two sides, always two sides. (maybe i can trademark that)

Well DUH, of course they don't have to comment. The mods, Peter, or Tim usually do comment when there are a number of posts expressing concerns about this website. There is no conspiracy theory here, but usually, somebody steps in to set the record straight. Two sides, of course. I think all most are asking for is to hear the other side.

This whole deal only got started around 12:30 this morning. I suggest that Tim Horn and Peter haven't responded yet because they have lives outside of here and haven't been on the site since this has been up...and that one, the other or both will make any necessary statements once they do.

Hmmmmm an intelligent and well thought out reply. Is this kind of thing even ALLOWED on this site?!!?

Excellent points Timmy!

Logged

LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

This whole deal only got started around 12:30 this morning. I suggest that Tim Horn and Peter haven't responded yet because they have lives outside of here and haven't been on the site since this has been up...and that one, the other or both will make any necessary statements once they do.

Has anyone thought that maybe they're just as in the dark as the rest of us? They work for POZ.com/S&S; they have bosses above them. Does the head of any of the corporations any of you work for tell you every time they make a phone call? Thought not!

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

I'm not convinced this is a big issue. S+S asked politely and even suggested a new name (plus a free subscription)....as opposed to images of lawyers threatening lawsuits, which was the imagine I had before. S+S do have a trademark on "Poz", since it's the name of their magazine. That doesn't mean they "own" the word, anymore than Apple Computers "own" the word Apple (which is trademarked by them). It just means that the word identifies their product from all others. You have to actively protect a trademark, or else you lose it. If you don't attempt to prevent others from using your trademark, then it is assumed that you don't care if everyone uses it (worse case scenario...someone starts another magazine called Poz). Peter was nice enough to go to Ray's website and even gave a compliment. It doesn't sound like he's upset that Ray used aidsmeds to advertise the website.

The absurdity of suing an HIV positive man for creating a website that helps people with a HIV diagnosis makes me nauseous. Is the point of aidsmeds.com not to help people with HIV find information and connect with those in similar situations? Is it possible for HIV positive folks to have too much support? My answer is an adamant NO.

There are roughly 40 million HIV positive people worldwide. It is my estimation that those 40 million as well as those who love them donít give a shit about trademarks, copyrights, money, or website hits. What I and many others like me give a shit about is surviving with HIV, helping others survive with HIV, and finding a way to be an activist to both reduce stigma and further treatment/cure options in this world.

HIV might be about money to the drug companies. HIV might be about money to some lawyer for poz.com, poz magazine, or aidsmeds. But finding support is certainly priceless for those of us that live with this virus.

I cannot imagine how any person with a personal connection to HIV, or for that matter, any person with an ounce of compassion, would want to shut thinkpoz.com down.

We live in a difficult world. I ask the owners of aidsmeds.com, poz.com and poz magazine to put their thoughts into perspective. To me it is not an issue of trademark law, it is an issue of basic human decency.

www.thinkpoz.com helped and continues to help me survive and come to terms with my diagnosis in the most difficult period of my life. That is more powerful than any trademark. Enough said.

The absurdity of suing an HIV positive man for creating a website that helps people with a HIV diagnosis makes me nauseous. Is the point of aidsmeds.com not to help people with HIV find information and connect with those in similar situations? Is it possible for HIV positive folks to have too much support? My answer is an adamant NO.

There are roughly 40 million HIV positive people worldwide. It is my estimation that those 40 million as well as those who love them donít give a shit about trademarks, copyrights, money, or website hits. What I and many others like me give a shit about is surviving with HIV, helping others survive with HIV, and finding a way to be an activist to both reduce stigma and further treatment/cure options in this world.

HIV might be about money to the drug companies. HIV might be about money to some lawyer for poz.com, poz magazine, or aidsmeds. But finding support is certainly priceless for those of us that live with this virus.

I cannot imagine how any person with a personal connection to HIV, or for that matter, any person with an ounce of compassion, would want to shut thinkpoz.com down.

We live in a difficult world. I ask the owners of aidsmeds.com, poz.com and poz magazine to put their thoughts into perspective. To me it is not an issue of trademark law, it is an issue of basic human decency.

www.thinkpoz.com helped and continues to help me survive and come to terms with my diagnosis in the most difficult period of my life. That is more powerful than any trademark. Enough said.

erika

If you read EVERYTHING and not just the first post its pretty clear so far that no one is trying to shut it down.

Logged

LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

Now I'm not a member of this "thinkpoz" outfit. Social networking sites make me think of places like Myspace with all those horrid tacky pages. Besides a large number of my online mates are here in the AIDSMEDS forums. I did visit the thinkpoz site, but the first thing I noticed was that it seems to be Flash based and Flash sux so I didn't go any further.

Don't get me wrong, I not interested in defending S+S and Poz.com. I don't have to, they can do that for themselves. I'm largely indifferent towards them and their staff. Like I said before, I'm here because my mates are here. But I don't think this Ray character is being entirely upfront with us here.

He's represented this whole affair as if some nasty big corporation is trying to rub out a little community based website in pursuit of the almighty dollar. Now that this has spun out some it appears that Ray has gilded the lilly somewhat. He hasn't been sued, he's been asked to change the name of his site.

So you come in, stir up this shit storm and just blow out the door?!? If that doesnt reek of drama queenish behavior then I don't know what does.

Im sorry, I was with you somewhat until I re-read your post. It seems you didnt come here to garner a better understanding of what was going on. But rather to stir up the aforementioned shit storm and then hightail it back to your comfort zone. And that is just wrong. But if I recall we have seen this sort of behavior from you before if I'm not mistaken.

LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

For those who have wondered by you haven't heard from Peter, Tim, Ann and me, there's nothing mysterious about it. Peter is away this week on a very well earned vacation. Tim is at this very moment in flight from Los Angeles where he had been attending the Retroviral Conference, where there was some exciting news about two new meds. Info is already up on the site about it and I expect there will be more details when he gets back to town.

Neither Ann or I have any information about this issue. Like some others have said I'm just waiting until we get a fuller picture of what's up. I will say I don't think we have the full story...yet, and until we do it's all speculation and that's not a good place to hang out in.

So you come in, stir up this shit storm and just blow out the door?!? If that doesnt reek of drama queenish behavior then I don't know what does.

Im sorry, I was with you somewhat until I re-read your post. It seems you didnt come here to garner a better understanding of what was going on. But rather to stir up the aforementioned shit storm and then hightail it back to your comfort zone. And that is just wrong. But if I recall we have seen this sort of behavior from you before if I'm not mistaken.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

Being the little Nancy Drew that I am... I did find this in the Terms of Service.

10. LINKS, ADVERTISING AND THIRD-PARTY SERVICES

Links to other websites may be provided in the Service. Certain Smart + Strong branded services may be provided by third parties. Smart + Strong will not be responsible for the availability of such external sites or third-party services, and does not endorse and is not responsible or liable for any content, advertising, service, product, or other material on or available from such external sites, AIDSmeds.com, or third parties or for any damages caused by or in connection with such content, advertising, service, product or other material available from such sites or third parties.

11. SMART + STRONG's PROPRIETARY RIGHTS

Information made available to the User through the Service and the content of the Service may be protected under copyright, trademark, patent or other laws of the United States and foreign jurisdictions. User may use this information and content only as expressly authorized by Smart + Strong or the other proprietors of this information and content and may not reproduce, publicly display or perform, distribute or prepare derivative works of such information or content without express authorization of the proprietors thereof. "AIDSmeds", "SMART + Strong", and certain other trademarks and service marks displayed on the AIDSmeds.com Web site are trademarks and service marks of CDM Publishing, LLC, and the User shall not display or otherwise use for any purpose whatsoever such trademarks or service marks without the prior written permission of CDM Publishing, LLC.

Nothing that would seem to be germane to this situation... but seeming isn't meaning.

I'd like to know everything that's going on, personally... before passing judgment or even having an opinion on this.

Ian, is it POZ's policy to do nothing to help control a shit-storm in the public forum their corporate parent owns? I guess "legal business" doesn't include "terms of membership" and "terms of use," which are the epitome of legalese in this public forum.

Logged

"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Ian, is it POZ's policy to do nothing to help control a shit-storm in the public forum their corporate parent owns? I guess "legal business" doesn't include "terms of membership" and "terms of use," which are the epitome of legalese in this public forum.

Ian just stated that they don't conduct legal business in the public forum. Nor would any other company. I don't think anything is wrong with that. I thought it was a very nice way to tell everyone to mind their own business. It doesn't have anything to do with us as forum members.

Semantics, definition, and opinion, Matty, just like I know your definition of and opinion about addiction differ from mine. I was actually quoting ACinKC from above, anyway.

Thank you for giving the appropriate credit. We dont want to get into another plagairism debate.

Logged

LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

Sean Strub here. I would like to provide some history on the trademarking of the brand "POZ". I started developing POZ magazine in 1993. I am no longer a shareholder in the company; however, I am an advisory editor to POZ.

I was originally going to call the magazine PlusLife, but then I heard my (also HIV positive) friend, Matt Levine, refer to a mutual friend as "a pozzie" and I thought, bingo, "POZ" is what we would call the magazine. I had not previously ever heard of anyone being referred to as "poz" nor had Stephen Gendin, my business partner, or the others involved with launching the magazine.

We knew then nor know now of no previous occasion when the word POZ was used in print in reference to a person with HIV, prior to the publication of the first issue of POZ in the spring of 1994. In fact, the early press coverage of the magazine's launch often included journalists (including from the GLBT community) asking us what the word POZ meant and how we came up with the name.

Some people in the AIDS community, when they heard the name, confused us with P.A.W.S. (Pets Are Wonderful Support) a nonprofit in Los Angeles that helps people with HIV take care of their pets. Their brand was a near-homonym to ours, but to many people in the community it was better known. When they heard of POZ magazine, they thought it was a publication from P.A.W.S.

Since we started POZ, we have provided millions of free copies of the magazine to people with hiv. I started the magazine with my own money; it was always financially precarious and run on a shoestring budget, even after I managed to attract some outside investors.

When we sold the company and the new owner subsequently teamed up with AIDSmeds, POZ was able to expand its website and provide numerous free services through our online network, from the treatment expertise and information on AIDSmeds to the connections in POZ Personals and POZ Mentor. We are proud of what the POZ brand means to people with HIV--trusted, reliable, honest information about the epidemic--and it needs to be protected.

You may recall the lessons learned from how ACT UP's "brand" has been used. "ACT UP" was not trademarked and anyone can use it however they choose. But when one group, ACT UP/San Francisco, embraced a radically different agenda than the other ACT UP chapters, it caused confusion. While the ideal of letting anyone use a brand however they choose is attractive, it is not practical for an enterprise that is trying to establish a level of trust with its audience.

We trademarked the name POZ because we had to protect what it meant and what we were building. Without protecting the brand, we could not have gotten the investors or financing we required over the years. We could not have established the reputation that we have.

If we fail to protect our trademark rights, anyone could use it however they want. Given the multitude of agendas surrounding the epidemic, that could quickly dilute the POZ brand to a point where it becomes meaningless. Any pharmaceutical company could use it, for example. Those with an agenda dangerous to people with HIV could use it.

We do not want others to create confusion, intentionally or not, for readers of the magazine or users of our sites who are seeking information from POZ. I recognize that the word has become part of the vernacular--something I did not foresee 13 years ago when we named the magazine--and is part of the community. But when a company doing work similar to POZ (ie: information and connection to the HIV community) and using our trademarked name, it is confusing to people and it's trading on a brand we built and are obligated to protect.

We are not singling out any one website nor are we interested in closing anyone down. We simply ask that our trademark be respected in recognition of 13 years of free services, information and connection we have built for the HIV community.

There we go. The OTHER side of the story as I have been waiting for. Seems fair to me. And it makes sense to me. Let the panty bunching COMMENCE!

Logged

LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

I completely understand the points made by Sean and congratulate him on a tremendous job with the magazine. Everything he said makes perfect sense.

I still don't think that thinkpoz.com, a chat room for HIV people would be interpreted by anyone to have any connection to POZ Magazine. Same goes for POZMATCH.com, an HIV dating site. ( I joined both pozmatch and Poz personals, so they're obviously not related-lol)

Hopefully both parties can sit down together and realize they're not working against each other at all.

That isnt the point. The point is they HAVE to defend it. Or they lose the trademark. The fine line they have to walk in regards to how vigorously they defend it is the real story.

But, I think all of this was caused by Ray and his initial the sky is falling post. Uncalled for. TOTALLY uncalled for.

Logged

LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

All of what was caused by Ray? The reactions in the thread? Ray felt his website was threatened, and he posted it. Guess what, his sky may have been falling.

I also am not convinced POZ magazine owners are going to fight him , as they obviously haven't fought the other sites ( or didn't win). But he felt his site/wallet was in jeopardy. Somewhat reasonable, though some of the reactions to his post were not.

Yeah guess I could have phrased that better. Im having an OFF moring. Check out my post in off topic, you'll see.

Logged

LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

All of what was caused by Ray? The reactions in the thread? Ray felt his website was threatened, and he posted it. Guess what, his sky may have been falling.

I also am not convinced POZ magazine owners are going to fight him , as they obviously haven't fought the other sites ( or didn't win). But he felt his site/wallet was in jeopardy. Somewhat reasonable, though some of the reactions to his post were not.

Very well said. What's important to one person may not be important to another. I can't remember when I first heard the term 'poz', but it sure wasn't in relation to a magazine or website. It was used to refer to a person who was sick (he had AIDS) and was... poz. He died in '96, so it had to be sometime before then.

Even though I could have phrased it better, the fact doesnt change that Ray came here with the agenda to stir the pot, and then he left in a huff. This is a pattern with him. And I personally just dont like it.

Logged

LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

Even though I could have phrased it better, the fact doesnt change that Ray came here with the agenda to stir the pot, and then he left in a huff. This is a pattern with him. And I personally just dont like it.