I was lucky enough to see Karrell Fox at a magic convention, some months before he passed. He did material from his books. It was wondrous to see the complete ideas as he used them. It is really to bad, he did not include the full handling, as they became miracles with his presentations. So simple and yet so powerful. I especially remember his broken watch effect and his burning handkerchief effect. Pure gold when seeing the full effect of the methods he used.

Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"

0pusInner circle
New Jersey
1740 Posts

Posted: May 12, 2017 01:02 pm

1

Quote:

On May 6, 2017, Sealegs wrote:
I think Opus, in his previous post, was overly dismissive when he said, "So it is simply a presentation of an old trick" A well routined presentation of a trick of any age can be the basis of turning a lump of coal into a diamond.

But in my opinion Opus was spot in when he went on to say: "... but no indication is given of what the presentation is or looks like. That's not very much for a potential buyer to go on when being asked for $80."

I guess I was being a little dismissive. Let me explain where I am coming from.

There are a lot of instant release escapes: Siberian chain, thumbcuffs, thumb ties, handcuffs, wrist ties, etc., etc., etc. I really like the comedic potential of the "in again out again" effect. I have looked at a number of these routines: Mac King's version of the Jaspernese thumb tie (a part of his card in cereal box routine). Anthony Lindan's Sports Jacket Escape. Joe Monti's Original Thumb Tie. Harry Anderson's Buffalo Bill/Cuff Links routine. Tony Clark's In and Out Rope Escape. Etc.

The entertaining "business" that one normally sees is the tied magician absently-mindedly doing something that shows that he is unfettered (like adjusting a spectator's hands) or catching or getting entangled in a hoop, loop, chair, suit jacket or spectator and having a hard time releasing that new item or person.

I have been looking for new/unique comedy touches that get the idea across in an entertaining fashion that have not been overplayed. My concern with the David Hira offering is that it may just be a re-hash of what has gone before.

In particular, from its description, there is really nothing that shows new, original thinking on the routine. I really have little interest in a "new way" of doing the release; I think variations on the method neither seen nor appreciated by an audience. And, from the description, this may be a single release (i.e., no in and out and back in again). Much of the comedy potential lies in the fact that sometimes the performer is bound and sometimes not - I would be less interested in a one-time escape.

In summary, I have spent some significant amounts on routines (no new moves, etc.) from a professional worker's repertoire, and have regarded it a money well-spent. But nothing in the marketing materials for Hira's effect motivates me to spend a premium amount for what can best be described as a "surprise package."

Dick OslundInner circle
7922 Posts

Posted: May 12, 2017 06:14 pm

0

I agree with your point about "surprise packages!

However, I will comment on your description of the Jasperese Thumb Tie, or ANY Thumb Tie, as an "in & out" EFFECT.

An ESCAPE, whether "in and out", or, just "out", is an ESCAPE.

A THUMB TIE IS a P E N E T R A T I O N EFFECT. THERE IS NO "IN AND OUT"!!!!!

I would suggest that you ask Bev Bergeron, who worked on the HARRY WILLARD SHOW. (WILLARD PRESENTED THE THUMB TIE, AS GOOD AS IT HAS EVER BEEN DONE.) Hoops, sticks, spectator's arms, yes, even the quarter pole that held up the tent, PENETRATED WILLARD'S TIED THUMBS!

SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK

0pusInner circle
New Jersey
1740 Posts

Posted: May 15, 2017 10:32 am

0

Quote:

On May 12, 2017, Dick Oslund wrote:

An ESCAPE, whether "in and out", or, just "out", is an ESCAPE.

A THUMB TIE IS a P E N E T R A T I O N EFFECT. THERE IS NO "IN AND OUT"!!!!!

I don't know whether I agree that such a hard and fast categorization can be made today.

While Mac King's version of the Jaspernese thumb tie is a thumb tie played as a penetration, and Tony Clark's In and Out Rope Escape is an escape played as an escape, Joe Monti's Original Thumb Tie is a Thumb Tie played as an escape (with "in and out") and both Anthony Lindan's Sports Jacket Escape and Harry Anderson's Buffalo Bill/Cuff Links routine are escapes played as penetrations.

Much of the business for one can be applied to the other.

furmanmattRegular user
New York
161 Posts

Posted: Jul 4, 2017 08:58 am

0

I've seen the instructional DVD. Great routine.

Harry MurphyInner circle
Maryland
5259 Posts

Posted: Jul 4, 2017 10:22 am

0

Furmanmatt thanks for the opinion. Still saying that a routine is good/great without describing the routine says nothing. You've given nothing to back up your opinion or that is helpful in making a decision (except for people who know you well).

Dick, "In and out" is the technique/method not the effect.

A thumb tie my be played as an escape using the technique/methodology to build up comedy and ending with the magician either escaped (with the cords balled up in his/her hands to hide the methodology) or as a failure and needing to be taken out of the restraints. Either way, it is playead for comedy.

The effects are different. The presentations are different. The goals of the performer are different. The technique (methodology) is the same. In both cases the audience shouldn't be thinking about the technique/method but the magic (and comedy) occurring. The good performer will hid the technique well enough that the audience will not be thinking "well he's getting out and back into that tie somehow). The strength and surprise of the performance should lead the audience away from the technique.

But I could be wrong!!!

Opus probably knows the Billy McComb thumb-tie routine but here it is anyway.

One of the best routines using the technique/methodology under discussion is found in Billy McCombs book "25 years wiser" (a treasure trove of good performing tips and ideas). Billy uses the thumb-tie as an incidental part of a seemingly larger card trick. The idea is to make the card trick more difficult to perform by excluding the chance to use cheating or slight of hand (tying the thumbs together).

In the course of the trick the performer asks the helping spectator to sit down. The performers linking rings are on the chair so have to be moved. You guessed it, they get linked onto the performers arm. As the chair is moved forward on the stage for the spectator helper to sit the performer's arm gets linked into the chair. Now the performer has a chair linked on one arm and a ring (or rings) linked on the other.

With the chair and rings dangling the performer instructs the spectator to hold the cards between his two hands. He does so. However the performer believes it is not high enough for everyone to see. The performer moves the spectator's arm up a little and, you guessed it, becomes linked arm and arm with the him.

Finally the performer gives the trick up as a lost cause, admits failure (never find the selected card) and tells the spectator helper that he will get the money promised/bet at the start of the trick. The spectator unties the performer who sets down the chair, and rings and takes out his wallet.

Inside the wallet is found, not the promised $100 bill but the spectator's selected and signed card!.

In all a pretty good in-and-out routine with lots of room to play and add bits of business. The effect is a selected and signed card shuffled into the deck is found in a zippered compartment of a wallet under comedic and impossible conditions. Or more simply a signed card ends up in an impossible location.

The artist formally known as Mumblepeas!

Dick OslundInner circle
7922 Posts

Posted: Jul 4, 2017 07:03 pm

0

Sorry Harry, we seem to have a difference of opinion.

My copy of "McComb's Magic--25 Years Wiser" is an autographed presentation copy from my old friend, Billy. I had not read it in detail in almost 20 years. (Billy signed my copy: "With great admiration this copy is dedicated to Dick Oslund"

I just read through that routine. I don't know where you got the idea that it is/was an "IN & OUT" ROUTINE, but, I cannot find any "in & out", in Billy's routine.

I repeat my statement above. The Thumb Tie is a PENETRATION EFFECT. TECHNIQUE AND/OR METHOD, have nothing to do with the EFFECT. The EFFECT is what the spectators PERCEIVE. TECHNIQUE AND/OR METHOD MAY BE INVOLVED WITH THE PRESENTATION, BUT, DO NOT NECESSARILY HAVE ANY RELATIONSHIP WITH THE EFFECT.

And, as you state: "In & out" is the technique/method not the effect."

The Kellar Wrist Tie uses the "in & out" presentation to produce a comedic effect. I stood NEXT to Harry Blackstone (pere) in the old Davidson Theater in Milwaukee in 1949, as part of "the committee", when Harry did the wrist tie. (I learned Harry's wrist watch steal, that night!) I used the Kellar Tie, when I was a part time pro. while I was in the Navy, in the '50s. The prop certainly packs small, and plays BIG!

I picked up a German "UU" thumb cuff, from a collector, years ago. I use it like Milbourne Christopher did, on the "TODAY SHOW", eons ago. (as a thumb tie!) I've used Irv Weiner's "Red Tape" method, Jay Marshall's "Jaspernese", and a rope tie somewhat like Willard's. (But, I don't have a quarter pole like Willard!

I have seen magicians who, using a method of securing the thumbs that will allow an "in and out" presentation, use THAT PRESENTATION. I KNOW, from discussing this with Bev Bergeron, that Harry Willard, who featured the Thumb Tie for years, would vehemently disagree with using the thumb tie with an "in & out" presentation. Jay Marshall, who "invented" the Jaspernese Thumb Tie, would disagree, also. AND, I'm quite sure that Billy McComb, would disagree too.

I hope that "thee and me" are still friends!

Dick

SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK

Harry MurphyInner circle
Maryland
5259 Posts

Posted: Jul 4, 2017 08:28 pm

0

I think we are discussing semantics here. I said that one of the best routines using the technique/methodology...was Billy's. The effect is a comedic penetration of a number of objects (ring, chair, spectator's arm). The methodology was pure in and out. He took his thumbs out of the binding and returned then into the bindings once the penetration was made (so I guess to be correct it is an "out and in" routine).

I am not talking about presentation here. I am talking about methodology. The presentation or effect can appear different even though the method to achieve the effect is exactly the same.

We may be splitting hairs and it is all a tempest in a tea pot at best but a fun discussion. And remember I did say I could be wrong!

We will remain friends till the end of time.

The artist formally known as Mumblepeas!

wallyInner circle
1710 Posts

Posted: Jul 6, 2017 04:39 am

0

Would a comedy rope tie, work for a school show ??? some ideas please , message me magicwalsh@gmail.com

Dick OslundInner circle
7922 Posts

Posted: Jul 6, 2017 06:00 am

0

I did school shows, successfully for 50 years. I worked coast to coast and border to border. I was never "at liberty".

I responded to a question by wally a year of so ago, in detail. He never bothered to respond.

My time is "worth something" (to me, at least) so, I wont bother to respond this time.

David Hira here!
I had no idea that this page existed. It's been fun to read all of your comments.
Like my friend Nick Lewin, I am not selling a "trick" with "The Foxy Rope Tie - OUTDONE!". I've finally decided to share my ROUTINE that made a rope "method" into a fantastic MYSTERY and into a fantastic audience pleaser. I've ironed out every wrinkle, paired the perfect music and more. Like some of you, I know many ways to get out of a rope. But that alone is not entertaining to watch. With this, you get two routines... one that pays tribute to Houdini by BECOMING Houdini and giving your audience a peek into what it might have been like to have seen him live. The key is that this is not an escape, nor a trick. It is a piece of THEATRE and a true MYSTERY to the audience. It's not an "in and out" routine because... well because I always thought that the "trick" was over once the audience saw you could get out. To belabor this by going back in and back out again was... for me... tedious.
Want to see the entire performance? It is this routine that you are paying for... but one of the two routines is performed fully on my Penguin Lecture. Please continue to listen later in my lecture when I lecture on why you don't take (steal) other's routines. That is what we have worked longest and hardest on. (And that's why you can't find a video of my routine anywhere on the internet.)
So, for those of you who said, "I'm not shelling out $80 for something I haven't seen", I get it. The release of my Foxy Rope Tie - OUTDONE! was for those who had watched my Penguin Lecture. So, check out the lecture (read the reviews of my lecture on Penguin's site right now) and decide.
Thanks so much everyone. Let me know if I can be of help to you.
David Hira

StperformerLoyal user
287 Posts

Posted: Dec 31, 2017 05:55 pm

0

Hi David.....I see the trick is out of stock at Penguin. Will it be available again in the future?????
Thanx