tattoogunman wrote:
At the end of the day, Tesla is simply a car company folks, nothing more and nothing less, and Elon just happens to be the current guy running the company. Car company executives are replaced all the time, it's part of the job.

And, one doesn't that produce many cars while bleeding money like crazy every quarter, racking up nearly $6 billion in net loss so far and over $10 billion in debt. They've not had an entire year with a net profit, so far.

iPlug wrote:Steve Jobs was known for the same, by most accounts quite worse. But that doesn't disallow a person the status genius nor disallow for an ultimately very successful and profitable company.

At least Steve Jobs designed/invented the technology that made him rich and famous (even if he had some help).

Steve Wozniak designed the Apple computers based on several computers he had previously designed. He might have had a (very) little help with the circuits from Jobs, but certainly not much. Jobs was the CEO and marketing director and he likely was heavily involved with product (and software) styling.

Steve Jobs certainly founded the company (with Wozniak) and was the genius behind its success, but I expect the "invention" was largely on Wozniak's (and others') shoulders.

iPlug wrote:Steve Jobs was known for the same, by most accounts quite worse. But that doesn't disallow a person the status genius nor disallow for an ultimately very successful and profitable company.

At least Steve Jobs designed/invented the technology that made him rich and famous (even if he had some help).

Steve Wozniak designed the Apple computers based on several computers he had previously designed. He might have had a (very) little help with the circuits from Jobs, but certainly not much. Jobs was the CEO and marketing director and he likely was heavily involved with product (and software) styling.

Steve Jobs certainly founded the company (with Wozniak) and was the genius behind its success, but I expect the "invention" was largely on Wozniak's (and others') shoulders.

Agree, that's one of several similarities I see between Jobs and Musk.

Both pitchmen, involved in hardware/software engineering from a creative level but not themselves doing the engineering, both driving their colleagues and underlings to greatness even if sometimes or often seen as tyrannical. For Jobs and Musk, it was more about innovation. Innovators get the glory (and $$$), inventors not so much.

Wozniak was the engineer, Jobs had the grand ideas and saw the big picture. The company and public coalesced around Jobs.

Elon Musk, under pressure from his lawyers and investors of Tesla, the company he co-founded, reached a deal with the Securities and Exchange Commission on Saturday to resolve securities fraud charges. The settlement will force Mr. Musk to step aside as chairman for three years and pay a $20 million fine.

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Elon Musk, under pressure from his lawyers and investors of Tesla, the company he co-founded, reached a deal with the Securities and Exchange Commission on Saturday to resolve securities fraud charges. The settlement will force Mr. Musk to step aside as chairman for three years and pay a $20 million fine.

jlv wrote:Having him step away from Chairman while remaining CEO is a logical win for Tesla. So far the market certainly seems to agree.

Actually, his being or not being chairman is a non-issue for the market. The key point is that the cost to the shareholders is less than .05%.
For Elon, the cost was about .1% of his wealth just from Tesla. Remember, whether chairman or not, Elon still essentially controls the board,
and he's still CEO, i.e. the Telsa board - puppets.

tattoogunman wrote:
At least Steve Jobs designed/invented the technology that made him rich and famous (even if he had some help).

Steve Wozniak designed the Apple computers based on several computers he had previously designed. He might have had a (very) little help with the circuits from Jobs, but certainly not much. Jobs was the CEO and marketing director and he likely was heavily involved with product (and software) styling.

Steve Jobs certainly founded the company (with Wozniak) and was the genius behind its success, but I expect the "invention" was largely on Wozniak's (and others') shoulders.

Agree, that's one of several similarities I see between Jobs and Musk.

Both pitchmen, involved in hardware/software engineering from a creative level but not themselves doing the engineering, both driving their colleagues and underlings to greatness even if sometimes or often seen as tyrannical. For Jobs and Musk, it was more about innovation. Innovators get the glory (and $$$), inventors not so much.

Wozniak was the engineer, Jobs had the grand ideas and saw the big picture. The company and public coalesced around Jobs.

And rightly so. Building the hardware was something a lot of people could do. Directing a company to meet timelines, production goals, etc. is also something a lot of people can do but what Jobs did was so far beyond that. He did not fill needs. He created needs we didn't even know we had.

I feel rather confident a there isn't a "lot" of people who could match Job's prescience.