brisbanetimes.com.au urban affairs reporter and blogger

"Well, she did give me one once. But - and this will sound weird - it wasn't in any way sexual. I mean sure, I was aroused, but that was just a natural response to what she was doing. It all came about because she'd asked about how they worked. Blow jobs, I mean.

“We'd been mates for a while, we were young, we were single, and she was out dating. We were out camping, and the topic came up, and I guess we just sort of thought 'well, what's the harm in a lesson?' So she went down, and I came up – with instructions, that is.

"And I've often smiled to myself when I’m out drinking with partners of hers. Sometimes the topic comes up. And the fellas will indicate that my teaching paid off…"

This is a rough account of a conversation I had with a chap I encountered at university last year. It’s not that strange. I’m a relationships blogger studying anthropology, and we'd been looking at how sexuality develops in different cultures. Specifically, the rites of passage teenage boys in the Sambia tribe of Papua New Guinea are subject to, including how they must subsist in huts with older male warriors, ingesting their sperm, suffering their violence, and learning their regard for women as horrible sappers of masculine life-force.

But even in that context, I admit, my esteemed colleague’s rumination seemed odd.

I mean, should our friends really be our sexual educators as well? Should we really be crossing this line with our mates? Can it really be done, and ‘mean nothing’?

One of my girlfriends did a fair bit of experimentation when I was at university the first time around (didn’t we all?). The experimentation concerned the usual boundary pushing – sex, drugs, rock’n’roll and the tribulations of student share-housing. But I didn't make it quite so far as she when it came to trying it out with other girls to better understand the shape of our sexuality. A bit of a smooch and some very charged dancing was about as far as things went for my part. Enough to know I really enjoyed ladies, but men were ultimately more my thing.

She, on the other hand, went all the way for the sake of sexual discovery. Her argument was very reasonable, I thought. “I want to know who I am, not what I should be,” she’d say. “So why should I stick to rules I didn’t write? What if I’m missing out on a whole world of pleasure and satisfaction? What if I miss out on discovering the kind of happiness that would make me a valuable contributor to society just because I’ve been told living that way isn’t ‘right’? Bollocks to that.” In fact, that was among the very few times bollocks graced her lips for some time.

Once she told me about an older lesbian she’d struck up a relationship with. The woman knew she was going through ‘that phase’, and so assumed the role of sexual educator rather than potential life partner. And my girlfriend would come home thrilled. She’d tried something she didn’t think she ever would. She’d discovered levels of orgasmic wonderment she’d never thought was possible.

Most importantly, she felt more and more at home in her own skin. Not only did this improve her self-confidence, but her self-love was also greatly enhanced (judging from our conversations over the evening’s wine, and the peculiar bursts of moaning I’d hear wafting through the ornamental grates above the bedroom doors of our Queenslander house). It all seemed rather wonderful. And it all seemed as though it was only possible because someone showed her it was.

Was I doing it right? Should I ask her to show me? And what about my relationships with men – all I had to go on were the words of my male mates, gay mates, gal pals and Cleo. Sound and pictures from Sex and the City and porn were also informative. But was that enough? How would I know unless I got a little more hands-on?

Ultimately I resolved myself to the notion that it wasn’t so much necessary to receive physical instruction from my friends so much as it was to communicate with my sexual partners. For me, at least, there was a line that would take platonic affection into the weird world of pseudo-sexual-confuddlement. And life’s hard enough as it is.

However, this idea does have a failing. What if your partner, for the sake of your own ego, or their sense of appropriateness, declines to be honest about the subject of your sexual performance? ‘Faking it’ is a concept as old as ‘put up or shut up’, and neither of them really have a place in the realm of a real romantic relationship.

So what’s to be done?

Would you, could you, have you ever let your mate be your sexual educator? And how far is too far?

87 comments

No, we all didn't (experiment sexually at university). Well I was mature student (only in academic criteria) But i was in a relationship and married in last year.

Regardless, in a later relationship I learn't a lot. We were together for some time, so it wasn't an education relationship. i just learn't a lot about myself and other's. As as years go on and other relationships I'm still learning

And as I recall she couldn't think of anything she hadn't done before because she had not done it before. And they both went on to do stuff.

Commenter

Dave

Date and time

May 22, 2013, 6:06AM

@ Fluellen

" in a later relationship I learn't a lot. We were together for some time, so it wasn't an education relationship. i just learn't a lot about myself and other's. As as years go on and other relationships I'm still learning"

Isn't that essentially Kate's point? Except, that she was writing about learning from 'mates'!

- - -

I suppose, Kate, the issue of 'fooling around to explore, learn, etc.,' is a topic faced by many. The essential feature is that in this discussion, the 'other' isn't one with whom we are otherwise lusting over.

There is no doubt the moral majority would baulk at the topic, but in other realms of our development we are quite comfortable learning from others. So, why should sex be treated in a different way. Oh, the puritanical will no doubt say that sex is 'gods gift' - and hence an offering to the other. Fools, they are. Either everything is 'gods gift' or nothing is!!!

If we are to ever move from the fumbling missionary to an 'evolved' state of sexual prowess, we need lessons. And, where and how we learn ought not be constrained by those moralising for their own sentiments and for others' sake.

Cheers

Commenter

Dalliance

Date and time

May 22, 2013, 6:12AM

Dave ... Fred Baby replies woowe at Holly's remark, inferring he belives she has done stuff. We have Holly's unclear relationships with the rates and $50 for the powder room. And the suggestion that she is a real phony. Fred/Paul later hand face masks on same bed bedpost which decorator friend assumes that they have had sex. Paul gives her his $50 check later as he feels that is the price of sex. She was Doc's wild thing. So I imagine that we are meant to see that Holly has done stuff. It is a 1960s film so we can't say sex. But clearly we are meant to understand she is very sexually experienced. A friend of mine and I have long debated if Holly is a sex worker. I feel she is.My friend says she is is just a fun girl.

Commenter

Fluellen

Date and time

May 22, 2013, 9:54AM

we already knew.

Commenter

Kane

Date and time

May 22, 2013, 12:22PM

Fluellen you remember it well. I watched it a few times but not recently. (I’ll have a watch tonight) Remember the done everything I can think of. And the going and doing stuff. We often don’t think of what we haven’t done. Had we we may have done it. (As the shop scene.I’ll go with your friend. That she was depicted as a naive fun girl. caught early and then went into her dream world. Living a missed childhood in an adult world. The dream never questioned as long as it went well. That living society was her life. Romantic dreams rather than sex. The dream finishing as it should.The movies of that era were not so in your face. More interesting as you actually needed to follow, get involved in the story. Often it was not defined. A little imagination. And usually came with a happy ending. The girls like that. (especially if they have a cute cat. Was the days when if a movie had no story they would fill it with sex to cover it. Very often sex that was out of context.

Commenter

Dave

Date and time

May 22, 2013, 1:04PM

Holly Golightly was created by whats his name specifically for his friend Marilyn Monroe.She hadnt done it before either.Although later ,studios made up some other story

Commenter

Jane

Date and time

May 22, 2013, 1:58PM

I wondered if Andrey had been specifically thought of for the role. Up until then she had played princeses, flower girls, nuns - all inocents. Thus to put her in a sexually charged role was messing with film veiwer heads. Oh, and the novel takes a different turn ... it is not that there isn't happy ever after ... it is just not the boy mets girl kind. We only learn that Holly has ended up in Sth America (via Africa) and she expresses being content (not happy). The novel lends more toward Holly being far from nieve and innocent, but taking control. But there is endless scope for debate. The day of doing things you haven't done before is something we might all learn from. I reckon that could be a whole topic for CK.

Commenter

Fluellen

Location

Pilbara

Date and time

May 22, 2013, 3:19PM

Ok, so w dig u the promo descip.“She is working as a high-priced escort and searching for a rich, older man to marry. The opening scene has her window-shopping at Tiffany's at six in the morning, after being up all night on a date.” Escort and date would be relevance. Even in the 60’s a hooker was a hooker.Whatever, it was a good movie.‘The day of doing things you haven't done before’. Perhaps a life of doing things. Some just have a rut they stay in. Quite boring people. Which of course comes back to relationships.

Commenter

Dave

Date and time

May 23, 2013, 4:46PM

I once met a guy that had a few sexual problems of a physical nature. I wasn't quite sure what was the best way to deal with the matter, what to say, do, etc. Was I the one who was creating the problem for him - I didn't know, so I asked a girl I'd known for a long time who was not shy about her many lovers, in fact hundreds. I thought she may have encountered this dilemma before and could give me some sage advice based on her experiences.In fact, my brief conversation with her was more illuminating. She said she had never met a guy with such a problem and that I was the one attracting these problems to myself.