Some Changes To The Flagging System Today

Originally posted by Danbones
Being someone who doesn't start many threads
and doesn't care much about received flags:
I like content in response posts...
(haha who knew eh?)

I'm not complaining about the change..
I just don't think I will use it because I flag for "interesting discussion topic"
not "agreement with OP..."
I'll flag even if I disagree with the OP because the more reads the more rebuttals

There are posters who kick butt better than I do...

Though I wish someone would take back Obama's peace prize....
thats another story for another day I guess.

I think this is a great idea! Hopefully people will remove their flags of some of the more "BSy" threads that have come around recently.

I don't see much room for abuse. It's your flag to give to someone, if you no longer wish to have given them a flag, you can simply take it back.
It's not as if you can somehow remove flags given by other people, or give someone a negative mark or something.

I was thinking something that seemed like a great idea to me, simply don't record people's flags. If a thread gets flagged, that can get a thread on
the front page, but it doesn't count towards any sort of collective flag tally. Would hopefully cut down on people posting outrageous stuff just to
satisfy their own ego and collect flags, while still allowing important topics to be displayed on the main page via multiple flags. I think this idea,
combined with the un-flag option would almost completely "fix" any issues the flagging system has. After all, do you make threads to get a useless
score on your sidebar, or to provide content to ATS?

OK, well, I suppose somebody is going to have to speak up for us, the silent majority of the ATS membership. So here goes... this is my first ever
post.

I came across ATS about three and a half years ago, whilst searching for information about Pine Gap in Australia and was surprised and delighted to
discover the wealth and range of other “alternative” topics which were being covered in great detail on this site. I was in my element and became
a regular visitor, thoroughly enjoying the process of being “awakened” to what was really going on in the world.

After about a year of “lurking” I finally decided to become a member, mainly because I had read several threads discussing avatars and just wanted
to see what all those pretty pictures looked like, not because I had an overwhelming urge to dive into the debates. That was two and half years ago,
so I am not exactly a “new” member.

Since the time I signed up, I have consistently spent many hours every day reading through pages and pages of fascinating, informative and challenging
threads. And a good few nonsensical ones too. I feel that I know you all very well and have developed a deep appreciation for those members who take
the time to research and amalgamate reams of diverse information (with sources, of course) so that the rest of us could easily take on board the
pertinent facts and, if desired, do further research on the subject ourselves.

I have, during my time as a member, learnt to differentiate between a “good” thread and a “not-so-good” thread, although I do realise,
naturally, that all opinions are entirely subjective.

My point is, that even though up until now I have never uttered a word in a post, I feel perfectly qualified to click on that “flag” button and
let it be known by all and sundry that somebody considers the thread in question to be worthy of attention and either a bloomin’ good read or
important information that needs to be “out there”.

Now it would seem, however, that because I have not “proven myself” by making the obligatory 20 posts, my opinion no longer counts. I know that
this comes across as a “petty” complaint to some people but my feelings are hurt. And, to really rub salt in the wounds, in spite of the fact that
I can no longer flag a thread, I am constantly faced with that ugly, garish, red “Un-flag” button which I have no way of getting rid of!

Up until now I have graciously accepted the fact that I can’t send U2Us as the price I pay for not posting. I suppose that sending messages
could be considered a privilege but I cannot, for the life of me, see how the ability to flag a thread should be considered a privilege denied
to the “lower class” of member. After all, flagging a thread does absolutely nothing that benefits me in any way. With the number of threads I
have flagged during my time here, the only result I have gained is an almighty ache in my right index-finger joint! The only person to gain any
benefit from it is the author of the thread.

I have even flagged perfectly worthy threads which I had spotted slipping un-noticed down the boards, apparently overlooked or ignored by the
membership. I always hoped that the author in question would feel a bit better knowing that at least one person had read and appreciated what they had
gone to the trouble to produce.

Okay, so you’re probably saying, “Look, why don’t you just make the 20 posts and get it over with? Then you won’t have any problems.” There
are in fact many reasons why, up until now, I have had no desire to get involved in things myself.

Firstly, throughout my entire life, I have always been a little on the timid side and rather lacking in self confidence. I totally avoid confrontation
if at all possibe and if I were to have a post ridiculed or pulled apart by one of the more critical or condescending members, it would probably scare
me off for good. I know, I need to develop a thicker skin, and I suppose it could happen yet....

Secondly, there’s that innate fear that whatever is posted online is going to be there forever, even if tomorrow you have second thoughts and wish
you’d never said it. There’s just no way of un-saying it. I know this applies to everybody, but it just bothers some of us more than others.

Thirdly, there’s the simple fact that by the time I’ve read all the way through a thread, whatever comment I might have made has already been made
by one or more members already, and we all know how unacceptable “me too” type posts are.

There are other reasons too, which I won’t go into here, but the point is that although Greeneyedleo may dismissively ask “how hard is it for
anyone to make 20 contributing posts?” and consider it to be “easy” , the fact is that a lot of us out here do NOT consider it “easy” at
all.

I’m fully aware that many people these days revel in the fact that they have a recognizable online “presence” and love the attention that they
get from that fact. Please be aware however, that there are also a lot of people who are the polar opposite and are quite happy to watch from the
sidelines and attract no attention at all.

In my own case, I know that I can, at least, string a sentence together but I also know people who suffer from severe dyslexia who would never post
anything on line for fear of making a fool of themselves. I also know people who dropped out of school early and wouldn’t post for fear of being
ridiculed for their lack of education. There are many reasons why people might not wish to post comments and no, it definitely isn’t “easy” for
everyone.

Actually, I have always intended to start posting in threads and I certainly never planned on having my first post be a long drawn-out whine,
lol! But I did feel the need to speak up for the “silent” members, who, because of that very attribute are hardly likely to come onto this thread
and complain that they can’t “flag” any longer.

After all, we sit and look at the adverts too and I’m sure that our numbers are included in the count for advertising revenue. We read the threads
and send links to our family and friends, thereby bringing in more members. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve recommended ATS to other
people as a source of REAL news as opposed to the MSM propaganda.

The fact is that in spite of the fact that we’re not very vocal, we quiet ones can be good little members too. And we want our Flag button back!

PS. I actually like the new “Un-flag” facility very much, just in case you thought I was nothing but a “moaning minnie”.

I think you should voice your opinions more often, as it seems you are able to do so quite
constructively and with civility. Something that can't be said for many people here, myself included on occasion

It seems there should be some sort of a 4-month rule or something, that if you are a registered member for more than 4 months you have full
flagging/thread starting ability. If someone is trying to start sock puppet accounts, it's probably easier for them to make 20 posts, than to wait 4
months for the ability to flag, so there wouldn't be any damage there.

I wouldn't take it so personally, the threat of people starting multiple accounts is, apparently, pretty real, so unfortunately some people have to
"suffer" without the ability to flag threads because of it. I'm sure nobody wants to stop members like you from flagging threads, but as the saying
goes "a few people ruin it for everyone else"

Hang around the off-topic section and post there if you don't wish to get involved with more "serious" conversations in the main forum. Good luck,
and take it easy.

Thanks for your reply, James and yes, it was a bit long, wasn’t it? Oops! It looked so much shorter somehow, in the edit box, lol!

Still, I do feel a bit better having got that off my chest.
I wasn’t taking the new rule personally, really, but the fact is that I’ve become so accustomed to flagging all the threads that I feel are
deserving that my finger moves automatically to the “Flag” button and now all I find there is a big red “Un-flag” button! Definitely upsetting
my equilibrium!

I’ll have to take your advice about the off-topic section, though usually it takes me all my time to work my way through the serious stuff...Maybe I
do need a little light relief...temporarily stick my head back in sand...

Everyone INCLUDING mods and SO should read that post. It really does say it all. As I stated a silent - possible majority - is being denied a voice in
ATS just because they choose not to post for whatever reason.

I seriously believe this is an arrogant position for ATS to be taking.

If someone is afraid to post they are afraid to post. To say otherwise is to say to the person suffering from vertigo - "Oh no problem walking around
the top of the building", to the agoraphobic - "Going outside? Easy peezy!".

This is arrogance and a complete lack of empathy and ATS should be ashamed of itself. I shall say no more, as I am sure this is falling on deaf ears,
other than it is symptomatic of the modern me, me, me attitude and nothing to do with understanding others.

It seems there should be some sort of a 4-month rule or something, that if you are a registered member for more than 4 months you have full
flagging/thread starting ability. If someone is trying to start sock puppet accounts, it's probably easier for them to make 20 posts, than to wait 4
months for the ability to flag, so there wouldn't be any damage there.

I like that idea. Very good thinking and something "the best staff on the Internet" should give some serious consideration. As you rightly say 20
posts for those of 'with an agenda' is simple, waiting 4 months is not.

Fantastic first post Granuaile, unfortunately ATS, like most western countries, the rules are made for the lowest common denominator.

The 20 post limit was due to trolls doing what they do best, not that it stops them because they just troll 20 pages before starting their troll
thread, this has been on the increase lately I've noticed.

Maybe instead of having just a 20 post limit before one can flag, maybe there needs to be a second option for people who have been a member for 3
months (whichever comes first) for members like yourself who aren't here to troll and disrupt.

Of course I have no idea of the logistics of this...It may be impossible.

Puterman -
You are a well respected member of ATS, I hope your post will be noted and considered by the staff,

And Granuaile - thankyou for speaking up for the silent majority, who for whatever reason choose not to post, or do so rarely. The ability to flag IS
their way of contributing to a thread. To remove the flagging system for them, removes their way of voicing an opinion. I also think a waiting time
between joining and being able to flag would be fairer.
And you definately made your first post count!

Another thought that struck me whilst I was trying on my latest tin-foil hat, is that for a person or agency using sock puppets on this board it would
be the perfect way to see how your puppets are doing in their ability to sway opinion.
Let them loose on a thread, then see how many members un-flag a topic.

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