tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post600087681609212519..comments2015-08-01T14:48:02.421+01:00Comments on separated by a common language: totting and totinglynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-21448110829650881402012-08-19T22:48:09.709+01:002012-08-19T22:48:09.709+01:00Did I really leave that first sentence unfinished?...Did I really leave that first sentence unfinished? I meant to say:<br /><br />Being from north Lancashire myself, the vowels in &#39;tot&#39; and in &#39;tart&#39; are miles apart.<br /><br />If I had a brain I&#39;d be dangerous. Or maybe I&#39;m just easily dis<br /><br />Ooh! Shiny thing!enitharmonhttp://enitharmon.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-24714172535181589952012-08-19T22:35:39.226+01:002012-08-19T22:35:39.226+01:00Being from north Lancashire myself, the vowels in ...Being from north Lancashire myself, the vowels in &#39;tot&#39; and in &#39;tart&#39; <br /><br />It is possible that &#39;tot&#39; as in &#39;tot up&#39; (a phrase I&#39;ve known as along as I can remember) is related to &#39;totting&#39;, as in scavenging for discarded items for reuse or sale, or (AmE)dumpster/(BrE)skip diving? My faithful Chambers says <i>Orig uncertain</i>.<br /><br />The eponymous characters in Steptoe &amp; Son, the BBC sitcom that re-emerged in the US as Sanford &amp; Son, were totters by profession. I&#39;ve never seen the American version so I don&#39;t know what they called themselves.<br />enitharmonhttp://enitharmon.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-2207833069214682472007-11-11T12:39:00.000+00:002007-11-11T12:39:00.000+00:00Bingley: I'm not sure I wouldn't use "sum up" exa...Bingley: I'm not sure I wouldn't use "sum up" exactly as you describe either. Perhaps I thought 'sum up' sounded more British.<BR/><BR/>M Sinclair Stevens: Isn't Japanese related to Turkic? Could some Silk Road languages share a similar word?jhmhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15024302748759726815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-17680857165649875612007-11-10T23:32:00.000+00:002007-11-10T23:32:00.000+00:00Sounds pretty implausible--there weren't a lot of ...Sounds pretty implausible--there weren't a lot of Japanese people in the American colonies in the 17th century...lynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-13281005854945424932007-11-10T23:28:00.000+00:002007-11-10T23:28:00.000+00:00I've always wondered if the word tote, to carry, c...I've always wondered if the word tote, to carry, came from the Japanese, where <I>totte</I> preceding a verb of motion can mean either to bring here or to take there. <I>Totte</I> as a noun is a handle,grip, or knob.M Sinclair Stevenshttp://www.zanthan.com/japan/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-24949253351760347622007-11-10T00:26:00.000+00:002007-11-10T00:26:00.000+00:00As a speaker of Southern British English, I don't ...As a speaker of Southern British English, I don't think I have heard/read 'sum up' being used as an equivalent of 'add up'. <BR/><BR/>I am familiar with 'to sum' as meaning 'to find the total' but it sounds very old fashioned. To me, 'sum up' means 'to make a summary of the discussion so far'. It's what judges, for example, do at the end of a trial before the jury retires to consider its verdict, or what the chair might do during a meeting. <BR/><BR/>Also, I don't think the difference between 'tot up' and 'add up' is simply one of register. I think 'tot up' implies a much quicker process.Bingleyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04271851970303022440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-84081022084936764022007-11-09T23:33:00.000+00:002007-11-09T23:33:00.000+00:00That's a good way to describe it, Christopher. Un...That's a good way to describe it, Christopher. Unfortunately, that's one of those vowels that's pronounced differently in different parts of the US, so the description won't work for everyone...lynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-18123745215241293422007-11-09T23:01:00.000+00:002007-11-09T23:01:00.000+00:00In the linked audio file, when the BrE speaker is ...In the linked audio file, when the BrE speaker is saying the word "hot",<BR/>it sounds very similar to the first syllable of the word "haughty" spoken by an AmE speaker of the mid- atlantic region.Christopherhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14963518186504018840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-90367611302323534632007-11-09T22:28:00.000+00:002007-11-09T22:28:00.000+00:00Phonetically speaking, the main difference between...Phonetically speaking, the main difference between the BrE <I>tot</I> vowel and the AmE version (and the vowel in <I>tart</I>) is a bit of 'roundedness' in the <I>tot</I> vowel. It's not just the length--it's also the quality of the vowel.lynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-67072555714238092502007-11-09T22:11:00.000+00:002007-11-09T22:11:00.000+00:00To answer one question - here at Oxford University...To answer one question - here at Oxford University, where there still are tutorials, they are known by the students as 'tutes', pron. 'tyoots'/'choots' to rhyme with 'boots', unlike in South Africa.<BR/><BR/>The UK bookmaker authorised to run pool betting on horses at both racecourses and in shops all over the country is universally known as 'The Tote', though its official name is 'The Horserace Totalisator Board' - there is also a Tote Ireland. Generally computer/television screens are used these days rather than the older style electronic boards. <BR/><BR/>As a southern Br. English speaker I have to agree that length is an important distinguishing feature between the vowels of 'tot up' and 'tart up', espcially in my case as a glottal stopper.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-58341603014758550242007-11-09T21:52:00.000+00:002007-11-09T21:52:00.000+00:00In a somewhat-less-standard version of AmE (observ...In a somewhat-less-standard version of AmE (observed in Norman, Oklahoma), I've had occasion to find out that "fire" and "far" can have vowel sounds that are largely indistinguishable (something like "faahr"). The vowel in "fire" might be slightly longer than that in "far", but that can be difficult or impossible to discern if there is any ambient noise. (Even the native speakers have problems distinguishing these words without context.)Doug Sundsethhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01848091504066560951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-16593126450100527552007-11-09T19:09:00.000+00:002007-11-09T19:09:00.000+00:00Just to make it easier to find those vowels... He...Just to make it easier to find those vowels... <A HREF="http://www.phonetics.ucla.edu/course/chapter2/sounds2/column4.aiff" REL="nofollow">Here</A> is the link to the audio file of a BrE speaker saying <I>heat, hit, hate, hat, heart, hot, hoot, hut, hurt, height</I>. Notice the difference between <I>heart</I> and <I>hot</I>. That's the same difference as between <I>tart</I> and <I>tot</I> in 'standard' BrE. <BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.phonetics.ucla.edu/course/chapter2/sounds2/bruce2.2column4.wav" REL="nofollow">Here</A> are the same words being said by an AmE speaker. The <I>hot</I> vowel here is in some ways more like the BrE <I>heart</I> vowel than the BrE <I>hot</I> vowel. Unfortunately, we don't have the two <I>hot</I>s right next to each other so that you can compare them easily. <BR/><BR/>Better Half and I will have to work on putting audio files onto my posts. I'm sure he can figure out how to do that (being <A HREF="http://www.smartpass.co.uk/" REL="nofollow">Mr Audio-Producer Man</A>). But that'll have to wait, as he's off to the US for a week.lynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-51009431737329960522007-11-09T18:54:00.000+00:002007-11-09T18:54:00.000+00:00Nope. (Don't confuse spelling for pronunciation!)...Nope. (Don't confuse spelling for pronunciation!) The vowel when a BrE speaker says <I>tot</I> or <I>snot</I> is not the same vowel as when an AmE speaker says those words. See the link back to the old post about those vowels in order to hear the difference...lynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-10322343316939542272007-11-09T18:50:00.000+00:002007-11-09T18:50:00.000+00:00"AmE generally doesn't have the vowel that's in Br..."AmE generally doesn't have the vowel that's in BrE tot." What, not snot?deariemenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-55446428594044490282007-11-09T14:49:00.000+00:002007-11-09T14:49:00.000+00:00Another different between Southern British English...Another different between Southern British English 'tot' and 'tart' is that the vowel of 'tart' is longer than the vowel of 'tot'. As a speaker of American English, where vowel length distinctions are less important, I had to learn to hear it.<BR/><BR/>I think there have been perception studies to determine whether SBE speakers rely more on the vowel difference or the length difference to distinguish tot/tart and similar pairs, but I don't know the results.Jill Lundquistnoreply@blogger.com