MGoT: Back to the battlefield

Another Making Game of Thrones post has gone up revealing a few details about the filming of an important battle scene in season 4.

Two years and two seasons on, we have returned to a location not far from the first and Neil [Marshall] is back at the helm once more. It’s still several weeks of night shoots, and being Belfast, there is still rain, but this time the fight Neil is navigating is not anywhere on the water. The planning of this battle has been taking place for months but unlike any other episode of Season 4, Neil’s will be filmed in a very concentrated burst. In fact, for many on the show – including most of the cast and the other directors, their work was complete before filming on this episode had even begun.

Throughout our shooting schedule, our crew and specialist departments are on their toes, but perhaps never more so than this season. This episode has kept the teams in stunts, armoury, prosthetics, SFX and VFX particularly busy, with camera tests and stunt rehearsals happening for several weeks beforehand.

As always, I can’t give too much away, but a little hint won’t hurt: Although this battle will not be laden with wildfire, I can say you’ve never seen an army like this on ‘Game of Thrones.’

The photo on the MGoT post looks to be one from season 2, but last month Neil Marshall himself posted this behind-the-scenes photo from the filming.

Winter Is Coming: That last line is intriguing. Book readers probably already know what Cat is referring to there and the Unsullied might even be able to make an educated guess…

I have this vision in my head of a pov from the top of the Wall, and all you can see is the darkness of the forest with thousands upon thousands of lit fires far below.
It’s good to read they have had some time to prepare for everything too.

Your words reflect my feelings as well. What director Marshall describes is epic
events. It’s no wonder that specific details, including casting assignments, have
been kept under wraps. Patient fans , and the anxiously excited will reap the benefits,
come season 4 premiere.

Only question is, will they have secured the budget for it? Horses are prohibitively expensive, but giants and mammoths (presumably the former riding the latter) would a huge undertaking for Pixomondo (assuming they’re still the go-to company), who are already having to deliver increasingly-larger dragons year-after-year. At least half-a-dozen in any given shot would be needed to sell it to the audience that they’re a credible threat to the Watch.

Let us see a different army. The obvious would be mammoths, giants and different types of clans attacking the wall. Let us extrapolate beyond the trite. Maybe a tribe of Giantbanes with their members hanging out will knock over the proud men of the nights watch. Perhaps the mistress of mole town will battle Tormund with her unmentionables–epic battle. Maybe Ghost will come back for doggie style with Mance and spark the biggest fire the north has ever seen. Maybe Aemon Targ will realize that if he stops squinting, he would find out that he is not blind. Perhaps if Sam stops eating, the wall will have enough food for a winter that is still coming and coming. Maybe give some of the food to that crying Gilly baby. Maybe Sam should give it to Gilly. Maybe Yirgette will be the easiest to shoot first with an arrow because she has the brightest hair like the red Target sign at the mall.

Only question is, will they have secured the budget for it? Horses are prohibitively expensive, but giants and mammoths (presumably the former riding the latter) would a huge undertaking for Pixomondo (assuming they’re still the go-to company), who are already having to deliver increasingly-larger dragons year-after-year. At least half-a-dozen in any given shot would be needed to sell it to the audience that they’re a credible threat to the Watch.

It seems like the big problem with horses is not necessarily money as much as the safety of the horses and the cast and crew. In a big battle sequence their is a huge risk of the horses getting spooked. CGI mammoths wouldn’t be cheap either but at least no one gets hurt.

Well any battle at the wall probably won’t feature as many horses as Blackwater, that’ll help keep costs down. The ease of live and studio sets in Northern Ireland, plus past experience and use of pre-made weapons, costumes, props etc. will also help, but D&D teased this event during season 2 discussions (albeit ones which were likely occurring during pre-production of season 3), so they knew this is when they’d need that extra burst of cash.

Blackwater caused a 15% increase on the first season’s budget (to 60-67 million usd), but this season would need at least 70 to allow for dragons, pyro, weddings and warfare to be pulled off. If only there was a WIC-lead campaign for everyone here to donate $5 equivalent, that would surely buy a couple frames of Drogon/Rhaegal/Viserion awesomeness.

Seems to more or less be confirming that there will be no cutaways to other locations like “Blackwater”, or at the very least that it will be far more focused on the one storyline than “The Rains of Castermere”.

As much as I would love to see mammoths in action, I think they are too expensive for the show . I would much rather have the budget used for a proper epic large scale battle. I loved Blackwater, it was one of the greatest hour in tv history, but I didnt like the fact that the battle wasn’t given scale, it looked like ~100 soldiers were trying to take over Kings Landing. Given the fact that now they had a lot more time to get ready, I’m expecting that this battle will be epic!

Balerion:
As much as I would love to see mammoths in action, I think they are too expensive for the show . I would much rather have the budget used for a proper epic large scale battle. I loved Blackwater, it was one of the greatest hour in tv history, but I didnt like the fact that the battle wasn’t given scale, it looked like ~100 soldiers were trying to take over Kings Landing. Given the fact that now they had a lot more time to get ready, I’m expecting that this battle will be epic!

I think one mammoth scene would be doable. I’m not expecting any more than that though.
It would just be sad if we never got to see one.

Blackwater caused a 15% increase on the first season’s budget (to 60-67 million usd), but this season would need at least 70 to allow for dragons, pyro, weddings and warfare to be pulled off. If only there was a WIC-lead campaign for everyone here to donate $5 equivalent, that would surely buy a couple frames of Drogon/Rhaegal/Viserion awesomeness.

That would be awesome, if it was possible. I am sure that there are a lot of hardcore fans that would pay in order to increase the show’s budget, myself included.

WeirwoodTreeHugger: I think one mammoth scene would be doable.I’m not expecting any more than that though.
It would just be sad if we never got to see one.

Well any battle at the wall probably won’t feature as many horses as Blackwater, that’ll help keep costs down. The ease of live and studio sets in Northern Ireland, plus past experience and use of pre-made weapons, costumes, props etc. will also help, but D&D teased this event during season 2 discussions (albeit ones which were likely occurring during pre-production of season 3), so they knew this is when they’d need that extra burst of cash. . . .

As VP says, aren’t there economies of scale to be had with VFX? The swords are already made, the dragons already designed and detailed: don’t they just bring the swords out and scale up the dragons? I get that when you blow something up it is lost and you have paid for the gas pipes to be laid and the gas to be burned, so that costs more, but the cost difference between researching and then designing a dragon from scratch and just making it bigger has to be a cost savings, right? Also, if Pixomondo (or whoever is doing VFX this season) has already done something similar, isn’t there a cost savings there as well? The production should have more funds available as the series continues, barring increases in the costs of other things (actor’s salaries, etc.), right? They’re just leveraging existing content (shudders at the necessary use of business-ese). They established the size of Dany’s Unsullied army last season, so no need for more of those shots just a meeting of the principals to witness the duel outside the gates of Meereen; and the dragons are fully articulated, so now it is just a matter of upsizing (perhaps a recolor here or there); so that should leave the bulk of the VFX budget for the only battle in the season. I can’t think of any other large VFX needs this season except perhaps Leaf and Bran and the attack of the wights at the cave if they are even IN this season–am I missing something? Seems to me that next season will be harder to budget for with the pit scene, Quentin’s face melt, Tyrion and the stone men, Volantis, Braavos, the Greyjoys and their ships, etc. So I’m betting on a mammoth or two, some awesome giants, sweeping top-of-the-Wall vistas of the attacking army and a view of the wave of Stannis’ men crashing through the seemingly victorious Wildlings. I know NOTHING about this, so anyone who actually works in the industry, please correct me.

you putz – I fell for this. I even typed your link again in the address bar to see if it would work. Now I really do feel like a dumb Targaryen blonde. Just kidding about the “putz” part :) …….. so – where do we donate to get more teasers, trailers, episodes per season, and Jaqen H’ghar? It’s been way too long.

I always wondered out of the 60 mil $ (?) budget, how much of it is reserved exclusively to CGI. In the last 2 season, especially season 3 Daenery’s storyline ate most of the show’s CGI “budget”. Season 4 won’t require a lot of CGI in Dany’s storyline (except the dragons ofc) so maybe we will indeed see at least one mammoth.
But I hope that season 4 got a raise in budget, because its obvious that GoT is extremely profitable, the ratings are high, DVD and BluRay sales are high and GoT merchandise is selling really good.

I love that two years ago giants even being in the show seemed like the one thing we could all agree upon they would have to cut for budgetary reasons…but not only is this not the case it appears they will be leaving their ‘stamp’ on the show quite significantly. Luckily the giant VFX in 3.01 was great.

Sid:So LS reveal in episode 9? if that is the reference to the scene filmed last year

Where are you getting that from?

Anyway, the battle is sounding epic, I am quite pumped for it. The ‘army unlike any other’ line is making me quite hopeful that we will see some giant action as they have already been shown in the series, but I’m not expecting any mammoths.

I’d say the mammoths are a sure thing, to be honest. We might not see much of them, but I can’t imagine they would leave them out entirely. I know that they have to work within a budget, but I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that season four has seen yet another budget increase (even if it’s only a minor one), seeing as Game of Thrones is the second most popular show in HBO’s entire history as a network. It’s their flagship, and given all of the coverage on the show this year following the Red Wedding (read: free advertising), I think it’s going to come back stronger than ever in terms of the ratings and quality. Given what we know about the events that will be occurring next season, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect season four to be the best yet. In any case, I’m sure that cutting the countries the show shoots in down to three, and going to Iceland to film during the summer have both freed up some money that can be re-distributed where necessary.

Well, we know that mammoths exist in show canon, with Mance’s tent being propped up by their tusks and Ygritte saying her “Thenn boy” was “built like a mammoth”. So they’ve been alluded to, but will they show up? I couldn’t say, they’re not really necessary but they would be awesome.

If a remember correctly there were similar descriptions of fires seen down below in the book from the Wall. And no, I wasn’t thinking about Helm’s Deep at all. I also believe it has now been stated more than once that there will be some kind of effects involving fire in the episode, whether they be in the form of Mel or the wildlings bringing their own fire, or both. There was also that scene about the wildling chieftain bloke saying he was going to light the biggest fire the North has ever seen in season three. It might be a little different from how it’s in my head but there you go.

Whoever said that probably expected that the PW and Stoneheart would be in the finale. As it is, episode 8 and 9 were really good. The finale lacked the punch that the previous seasons had. Looking ahead to season 4 we have these things happening in the final three episodes:

Tyrion Pimpslap,
Some possible additions to that list:
4×08 – the fight at the Inn of the Crossroads and meeting Bloodraven (although that could happen earlier).
4×10 – the exile of Jorah+Drogon killing the child, the Lord Commander election (although I think that it will be held back to season 5 and Balon’s death (the way I see it, he will either die in the premiere (if the leech order matters) or the finale. I would lean towards the finale because of the lack of Euron, and because I think it is important that the deaths aren’t in the same order as the leeches.

Cosca1:
The last three episodes of Season 4 are going to be ridiculously good. I can’t wait.

Only problem is that nothing in Season 5 will even come close

Although I agree that season 5 won’t be as good as season 4, I wouldn’t say that nothing will come close. Assuming that the finish it at roughly the same place as AFfC, although there wouldn’t be a massive episode 9 event we could still have some extremely strong episodes. The last few episodes, for example, could contain all of the following (in no particular order): the fighting pits, the siege of Dragonstone, Cersei’s arrest, Brienne fighting Rorge and meeting Catelyn, Ramsay’s wedding, Jon beheading Janos (assuming that the election is in season 5 and the emphasise the scheming), Sam fighting the deserter, Arya killing said deserter, the Skagos reveal, Euron sending Victarion to retrieve Daenerys, the descent from the Eyrie, Jaime ending the siege of Riverrun, Tyrion being captured by Jorah and the Golden Company vowing to put Aegon on the throne. And there would be a number of epic scenes earlier in the season as well. It wouldn’t be as strong as season 4, but I would argue that it would still be stronger than season 2.

Season 2 was great as a whole. There are just a few changes from the books in there that are hard to justify, but otherwise it was well paced, it had plenty of great scenes, the acting was as good as ever and most of all, it had Blackwater. When I watched it the first time I was still Unsullied, and it did not disappoint one bit. Seeing it now begs the questions of why they did what they did to Dany and Jon’s arcs and why would they change Jeyne into Talissa (I still don’t get it).

Season 3 had more reasonable changes, though I still like season 2 better. I think (and hope) that aside from Yara’s trek around the world and a possible death by Bronn this season will be more like season 3 than season 2 in terms of faithfulness to the books.

the drama with balon’s death is that it hints joeffrey is going to die. if they make it in the finale, the leeches doesn’t matter at all. balon’s death seems important to you bcz you know the books. for the unsullied, balon is just the grumpy old father of theon and pyke is just the background of his scenes.

You know, the Jeyne becomes Talisa thing was weird to me. I hadn’t read the books (I’ve read or listened to 4 now – though I did go out of sequence in that I could get Dance with Dragons from the library but not Feast for Crows so don’t know that yet, but I read DWD and FFC events were going on at the same time, only to different characters), but like I say I was completely “Unsullied” when I watched Season 2. I know Westeros is a made-up continent but it is sort of based on feudal Europe and there was no way a sensible woman in that society would have cheeked a king and a stranger king at that. Dany’s story differed from the book too but that didn’t bother me quite so much. In retrospect I was a little disappointed they made Jaime kill the Cleos replacement character – Jaime is quite bad enough at that stage in the story without making him over the top.

Really interesting article about Telltale Games that also touches on their upcoming GoT game.

Allison said Telltale’s take on the series will draw from both the original books and the show, but will defer in most cases to the show in terms of representation and major elements. However, this does not mean Telltale won’t pull material from the books that didn’t make an appearance on television.

“Creatively, we’re going to defer to the show because we are using HBO’s license,” Allison said. “Playing the game should feel like watching the show and we’ll be making lots of decisions the same way the showrunners do. We’ve talked with them about how they make their decisions and how they pace their scenes, what they do when they face a big plotline and what to keep and cut. We’re taking their expertise and applying it to the material we bring to the table.”

It’s not that it ended up being bad, but why change something that was perfectly fine? Why make her a Volantine woman? It is a weird decision in my opinion. Anyway, you should be VERY careful reading ADWD before AFFC. Around half way into the book ADWD will spoil AFFC as some point of view characters from Feast have one or two chapters in the latter half of Dance (Arya, Cersei and some new characters). ADWD goes beyond the intersection point with ADWD. I suggest you read AFFC first.

I just did a complete rewatch and now I really can’t wait for next season. Season 4 will be a sure thing, but things will get interesting when big choices are going to get made on the adaptation of affc and adwd.

Concerning the changes in season 2: Daenerys’ ACoK material was among the most boring in the entire series, it was a necessity to change it. As terrible as her S2 arc was I still prefer it to the book equivalent. The Jeyne -> Talisa change removes the Westerling scheming subplot, simplifying things. As for Jon… I have no clue. I generally defend every change they have made, but that one is unjustifiable as far as I’m concerned. If they wanted to establish Ygritte here’s what I would have done: Have the scenes with Ygritte in episode 7 and 8. In 8 they would see Qhorin’s group in the distance. Jon would release Ygritte and return to Qhorin. Later in 8 they would realise that they are being hunted. We would then get the campfire scene and Jon vs Qhorin in the finale. They could easily have done it without mangling the Halfhand and without ruining Jon’s character development.

As for season 2 as a whole: yes, it had Blackwater which is still my favourite episode of the entire series. However, as a whole the only arcs that really stood out were Theon’s stuff and Tyrion’s stuff. The rest was kind of average at best. The pacing was better than season 3, but 3 still had stronger arcs on average. Overall, as far as the first 5 books (and seasons) are concerned, I am expecting S4 to be the best in every area.

I heard the rumor about Pixomondo not being the VFX company early this year, but some WEB searching and watching has only turned up hints that Pixomondo will be in a larger mix of CGI companies. .. but it is confusing.
Pixomondo has done some great work in recent years winning and Oscar and an Emmy and seem in demand , they are doing a number of films right now … and their cost could have gone up… but I have not heard of them out of GOT.
The company SPIN VFX was in the mix for GOT season 3, so not to forget them.
I have not seen anything from D&D about having to ask HBO for more money for this year , so maybe HBO was prepared.
I think one thing that happened is that Neil Marshall came on board early this year, as is said in the note there was more preparation. Marshall now is a real veteran of large action work … so even more than Black Water he was better prepared this year and HBO knew the budget.
I am surprised at VFX houses, I had never heard of Framestore and they totally blew me away their work on GRAVITY this year.
Seems one can find a cracker jack CGI-VFX company these days.

AmrWaked121,
Are you the same person as ‘Victarious’ over on westeros.org, by any chance?

Dornishman,
Nice. I do find that lack of House Greyjoy in favour of doubling up on House Baratheon rather interesting. If I were them I would replace Stannis’ firey hear sigil with the Greyjoys and added the Martells and Arryn’s at the top and bottom, but overall it’s a brilliant design, and I very much look forward to adding this to my collection.

I guess they wanted to include Fiery Heart Baratheon because it was part of a set of three potential new sigil artworks from Best Buy (US) featuring Tyrell-Tully-Stannis. Since they will not be made available thanks to fans, at least this way they will be displayed in some form.

All the other sigils were already available as part of season 1 &2 releases (although I realise Greyjoy was part of season 2’s release).

AmrWaked121,
Just someone who never contributes to the topic and only ever posts things like “lol, ur such a newb! dye fag!1!! gokill urslf!!!” to various people on the forum, so you reminded me of them. Although to give credit where it is due, they do it in a way that is much more coherent than you :P.

Jentario,
I hope that is the case, but I don’t have my hopes up. If anything the season where things are most likely to change in that regard would be season 5.

Agreed. They do an amazing job of significantly transforming/hardening her into the Yara/Asha/Kraken character.

I’m still befuddled regarding where they are taking her character this next season. How the heck is she going to get to the Dreadfort? By sailing 2000 leagues around Westeros to the Shivering Sea? Will she meet up with Vic at Moat Cailin before Balon croaks (wishful thinking)? We’re all UnSullied on this GoT plotline.

I love it! I just want to know…. when is the first mini teaser trailer going to air?
I know we have seen a few snips on HBO coming up! but by now I would have thought we would have had the first glimpse of something relating to it.

But is it really a she? Until Rygar said Rygar is a woman in one post, I was positive Rygar was a man. Everything Rygar ever says has a certain sexual freedom and even a bit of perversion that I rarely see in women (and Rygar should take this as a complement, if anything). As far as we know, saying “us ladies” was just another of Rygar’s tricks (and there are many of those). I could write a thousand page essay about the mysteries of Rygar.

Anyway, as for the Yara thing… I think her trip will be an extended stand in for the Moat Cailin incident, where Theon betrays some Ironmen for Ramsay. Which means Theon and Yara will cross paths, and he will be sent to “treat” with Yara only to betray him (which will also show how much he has become Ramsay’s bitch and how afraid he is of him to the point of betraying family and making insensible decisions). Hmm, I just realized Theon is actually literally Ramsay’s bitch in the books, Ramsay let’s him sleep with the bitches (as in, female dogs).

Only question is, will they have secured the budget for it? Horses are prohibitively expensive, but giants and mammoths (presumably the former riding the latter) would a huge undertaking for Pixomondo (assuming they’re still the go-to company), who are already having to deliver increasingly-larger dragons year-after-year. At least half-a-dozen in any given shot would be needed to sell it to the audience that they’re a credible threat to the Watch.

Oddly enough, I liked the Talisa change. I thought her character was an elegant solution to introducing the cultures of Essos and the slave cities, which will become so important in later seasons.

As for the Jaime kills his cousin scene, well, that bothered me, too, when I first saw the episode air. Jaime kill a relative, a Lannister, in cold blood? What? But then re-reading A Clash of Kings, I noticed that in Cat’s POV she mentions that Jaime has built up a ridiculous body count as a prisoner at Riverrun. The reason he is being kept in chains and not as a highborn hostage was because of his escape attempts, in which he murdered fellow prisoners with his bare hands, and several guards with improvised or stolen weapons.

Looking back, I think it was an effective way of showing how dangerous he could be.

Regardless of his later character development, Jaime was trained from an early age to solve problems by murdering people, and that’s pretty much how he has dealt with most difficulties in life.

they said last season there would be no strong belwas which is a major disapointment for me. He has a couple of memorable scenes and i would love to see that character on screne.
I guess they figure with Jorah, Baristan, Daario and Grey Worm they have enough warriors around Dany. Real shame, Oh how I would of loved to see SBtake a shit in front of mereen

Strong Belwas is a human controversy. There is no way he would have made it into the series, even though he works so well in the books. He either gets criticized as a black charicature (remember how bad the end of Mhysa was in terms of black/white criticism? and Belwas is much worse than local extras, even though I would never call the character’s existence racism), or he gets “whitewashed” and the show gets criticized for having too many white people and even changing black characters into white ones. In other ways, there’s no escaping the controversy of Belwas. Adding him to the show could potentially be PR suicide.

My wish, mammoths are used to batter the gate so Mag the Mighty can get inside to battle Donal Noye. I think it would be a shame to leave a scene like that out. especially considering that one of the last things that Donal Noye does (other than slaying a giant) before Mag the Mighty crushes his spine is give command to Jon Snow.I suppose that the giants could break down the gate without the mammoths, and I don’t think they’re as much a necessity for TV giants which are more humanoid and can probably run.
I think it would be cool to see the mammoths battle with mounted knights, tossing them about with their tusks, arrows and spears sticking out everywhere, but then there’s the old horse budget problem again.
Ok, so probably just a couple CGI moments of mammoths kinda like the giant last year,
so long as I get Mag/Noye death match I’ll be happy.

But is it really a she? Until Rygar said Rygar is a woman in one post, I was positive Rygar was a man. Everything Rygar ever says has a certain sexual freedom and even a bit of perversion that I rarely see in women (and Rygar should take this as a complement, if anything). As far as we know, saying “us ladies” was just another of Rygar’s tricks (and there are many of those). I could write a thousand page essay about the mysteries of Rygar.

Ever considered the possibility that she used to be a man, but now she’s not anymore :p

I deffinately agree. But the problem is, that problem is going to be very previlent in upcoming seasons anyway. with major players from Mereen and Dorne coming to the show. Plus characters like Moqorro and Ben Plumm. If its going to be a problem then they could of at leats kept a badass character

The problem isn’t the inclusion of shady black characters, it’s that Belwas is an ape. An awesome ape, but an ape none the less. The picture that will be painted to people will be “I Belwas, I black and I poop on you.” which will obviously offend the more sensitive ones, and maybe even not just the sensitive ones.

No Donal Noye, but maybe someone will take his place. Alliser Thorne is a possibility, for instance. Season 4 spoilers beyond, and not just from the book! Since there were set leaks that Locke will be going to the Wall for his crimes (chopping off Jamie’s arm), it’s possible he will become a replacement for one of the many characters that become important at the Wall: Donal Noye (which could be interesting), Alliser Thorne (if Thorne replaces Noye), *shudders* or Bowen Marsh (god, I hope not). I really hope they keep the scene, even if they decide not to keep the character for budget/screentime reasons (though to be honest, I would definitely prefer a Donal Noye casting over a Mole Town Madame casting).

He’s clearly not the brightest pea in the pod. I don’t think there’s any line in the book that showed he had any brains to him. And then there’s the poo scene which is obviously apeish (and absolutely hilarious).

I just think Belwas is one of those things we’ll only be able to enjoy in the books, and we should accept that. I do hope they will give Daario or whoever fights the champion of Meereen some of his lines, though. “I always let them cut me once…”

Veltigar: Ever considered the possibility that she used to be a man, but now she’s not anymore :p

Uh-oh…our robust, highly opinionated, multi-faceted GoT introspection now seems to be redirected at the dreaded story of The Rygar. Many years in the making, it is a quirky, highly-disturbing tale of darkness and elation, hits and misses, truth and lies, sincerity and hallucination, phallic quandaries and vaginal bonding. “Behind the Candelabra”…eat your heart out. Soon, Ser Tahu will provide a complete chronological scene-by-scene breakdown of the transformation of Rygar from loving ectomorph to dysfunctional hominid to a puddle of jizz, a guaranteed indie blockbuster. The suspense, the terror, the joy….oh, the humanity!

:) ——

And now for something completely different: This X-mas, a few of us binge-watched the final season of Breaking Bad (my second time) and simply were blown away by the intensity of each episode. (Binge-watching is the best!) BB set the bar pretty damn high for acting, directing and writing….hell I’d even throw in a “best supporting actor in a comedy” for Odenkirk (Saul). We yelled at Jesse, Hank, Skyler and Walt. We stood up and cursed during “Gliding Over All”, “Buried”, “Rabid Dog” and “Ozy”. We paused, pissed, replayed many scenes and debated Walt’s dubious, maniacal decisions. Fuck, it was awesome.

That being said, I believe GoT (and other shows) have a shot at their own greatness this year. They have seen the quality on display in BB (heck, director MM was even part of it!), even tasted it with several memorable, jaw-dropping moments in GoT S3, and I believe (by bringing back the creative S3 writing/directing team and Neil Marshall) the showrunners are up for it in S4. There is a reason for the “dribs and drabs.” I believe the “BB effect” will spill over into GoT and we’ll get a great thrill ride. The Sullied know there are amazing moments coming in S4 and beyond….now we’ll get to see them play out onscreen.

Exactly. It’s part of HBO’s image to be a little bit edgy. Not that this is always a good thing, but to the extend that HBO does it, I think it is. And in regards to Balwas: I never saw him as an ape. He is not an academic, that much is true, but he is in no way stupid. For one, he has survived countless fights, you don’t pull that off if you are stupid. And secondly, he speaks a foreign language, he might not speak it very well, but it’s enough to communicate. I thought that Balwas simply has basic interests: fighting and eating. That doesn’t make him stupid.

My take is thatGrenn will be the one to die in the tunnel while battling a giant (can see the show just having them as nameless giants so no Mag). He is a character that viewers associate as a friend of John while Locke and Thorne are seen as antagonists who I can imagine some viewers would be quite pleased to watch get crushed by a giant. If they go with Grenn it gives him a memorable/ heroic exit while also getting another actor off the payroll before the expected busy casting period for season 5.

Mammoths/Giants isn’t that big of a deal. All they have to do it Generate one single Mammoth and replicate it a few dozen times. Why do you think SyFy constantly has those Bee/wasp/bat/ant swarm “originals” all the time?

As for when we will see a trailer/teaser my money is also on 12/01. However, I think that we will get something before the True Detective premiere, not the Girls premiere, as it is almost certain to have more viewer and will likely have more of a crossover with the audience of Game of Thrones.

As for when we will see a trailer/teaser my money is also on 12/01. However, I think that we will get something before the True Detective premiere, not the Girls premiere, as it is almost certain to have more viewer and will likely have more of a crossover with the audience of Game of Thrones.

I am hoping for a little something after the current re-airing on HBO Signature ends Monday night. Even just a premier date. Please!

No offense, but your bee/wasp/bat/ant swarm comparison simply doesn’t work here. Mammoths or Giants do not come in swarms and only then is there any chance that the whole “copy and past” approach will look convincing if the copied objects are supposed to move. The benefit of a swam is that you can’t really make out details. Most of it is little more than whirring dots.
To do Mammoths or Giants with CGI you would have to animate every single object differently (unless they would move in a perfect lock step like the Unsullied army) and then probably do some texture work to make the Mammoths and/or Giants look more distinct. Trust me, CGI is way more difficult than just replicating things a few dozen times.

Off-topic but for UK people Ian McShane is on “Saturday Kitchen” [BBC1} today – I know some people have him on their fan cast list for GoT. He does look good for a man of his (even older than me) age but does he have a little help with the hair colour? People in the UK might be able to get the programme on iplayer. His natural speaking voice is northern English so I guess if HBO could get him he could play a northern lord [though I can’t think of one that would suit him physically that hasn’t been cast yet].

A thought on CGI – it must have cost the show-runners a king’s ransom to have the Dothraki and Valeryan languages made up – if they had gone with existing dead languages they might have saved some money for CGI effects. Th BBC’s “Merlin” which admittedly was a very different show [aimed at the family including the kids Saturday autumn/winter night audience] used Old English for the casting of spells and was quite effective.

The one thing I still don’t get is, if Ygritte, Tormund and the rest of the Free Folk are scheduled to appear in episode 9 for the final battle, what could they be doing for the other 8 episodes to give a logical reason for their extended break? Jon was able to abandon them in episode 9, and return in episode 10, so they can’t be too far away, and sacking Mole’s Town isn’t good enough because it’s only half a league from Castle Black.

It could be they filmed elements of other episodes in the same period, but it seems Ygritte’s death is scheduled to appear in episode 9, rather than 4 or 5 which is where I’d have put it, if I were lucky enough to be a showrunner. It will at least allow the time required for Mance to find out the mission to scale the Wall was a success, and send Styr to mount an assault from the top of it (again, what I’d have done). I can also see one of either Pyp, Grenn or Edd dying heroically (though more in the vain of Deaf Dick than Donal Noye). I would rather they stayed, but D&D have killed characters off which still live circa. ADWD because unlike in the books you need to pay the actors (hence Irri & Xaro’s early departures).

I imagine they will have Ygritte and Tormund return to Mance, or be approached by Styr, him saying that Tormund was called to speak with Mance or something. I wonder if there’s any possibility that the battles WEREN’T combined after all (we- including me- have all given in to this fact). Maybe they asked Neil Marshall to film that one scene as well as his episode 9? Maybe there WAS another director and the battles WERE filmed separately?

What was the evidence of the combination, again? I remember it being solid and unquestionable.

It’s the cheeking the king bit with regards to Talisa that irritates the heck out of me, Joh. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve never been a “must please the menfolk at any cost” woman, but considering the power that nobles had in those days I just can’t see a medieval wise-woman speaking to a king in that way and the back story about the saving of the little brother was so cheesy and “Mills and Boone” (Mills and Boone are a publishing house of romantic fiction in the UK). As I said before, Westeros is of course fictional but it was based on Europe in olden times. But there is no rule anywhere that says you have to like or dislike what I like or dislike ………

Your private life is your own concern though I rather suspect you are “pranking” us all. I never thought Gemma Whelan was ugly as sin the way some posters seemed to anyway (I’m not accusing you of being one of those persons). I guess they roughed her up a little for GoT because she would probably be weather-beaten if she spent a lot of time aboard ship. Was book Asha drop-dead gorgeous? I must have missed something if so – I thought she gained her men’s respect by charm and dint of personality (again Rygar I’m not accusing you of being one of the “she ain’t ‘hawt’ enough” brigade).

Pixomondo again.
Some searching of German newspapers reveals that Pixomondo has had a cash flow problem over the last year.
Mainly they have been way behind in paying Free Lancers (CGI-VFX people) for work in 2012 and 2013.
The company still exists but is in financial disarray, for reasons I was not able to ferret out, my German is not that good.
In fact I did not know Pixomondo was of German origin since they have, rather had studios all over the world…
They seemed in demand…
They may still be involved with GOT , but could explain some of the rumors about them not being prime VFX for the show.

I like your idea of Locke replacing Thorne and Thorne replacing Noye. And in that way we could have both Jon And Locke Are Friends (at first) and Jon And Locke Are Full of Hate (after they get to know each other). Thorne would be less of a one-note character by becoming, for a moment, the selfless Noye. It wouldn’t be out of character, because there was a suggestion at times in the first season Thorne was actually trying to prepare them for Beyond the Wall and wasn’t completely sadistic/cared about the Watch.

Whatever the case, I look forward to Thorne reappearing, bitter about waiting around in King’s Landing and annoyed at Snow’s rise, whether he turns further murderous or bonds over their commitment to Castle Black. I also would like to see Satin, the male prostitute from Mole’s Town who ends up being good with a crossbow at the Wall. I always liked that detail, though we haven’t seen that name cast.

Ah, yes, but for the same reason as Tywin being given far more scenes in the past 2 seasons than in the book, and for Robb to be constantly in focus in season 2 and so on, the producers probably don’t want their beloved Rose to be cut just yet (yes, pun intended). They kept her all the way through the second half of Season 2 when she could’ve turned up at the end, ruining Jon’s arc with Qhorin in the process. They want to keep her on until the very end I’m sure, especially when episode 9 is now famous for knocking off fan favourites (or scarring them for life).

As I said before, maybe the first assault will happen mid-season. It’ll be needed if there’s to be 5 episodes of Tyrion sitting in a dungeon as his allies abandon him one-by-one (hopefully they have the sense to do 2 or 3 PD-free episodes this season).

Jentario,
I never said that it was normal, only that it doesn’t make you an ape. Extreme? Yes, but not apepish. And you must consider the special sitation of the poop gate, it actually has some symbolism to it.

Just watched 3.3 and 3.4 last night. When Mance tells Tormund to climb the Wall, he tells him to send Orell’s eagle above the Wall each night to watch for “the biggest fire the north has ever seen” as the signal to attack. Apparently, they WILL be attacking together–that was the plan. Missed it on the first watch, but it made my ears perk up on this one since we’ve been discussing it here. Perhaps that is where the Mole’s Town madame will come into the story, as Tormund et al will have some time to kill south of the wall, and the brothers left at CB will be a little busy hearing Jon’s story and welcoming Sam and Gilly. A re-ordering of the story, but an understandable one, and not necessarily a bad one. Just can’t figure out where Styr and Tormund will hook up. Surprises for the Sullied! Can’t wait!

re: Belwas: Hmmm…never saw Belwas as an “ape” nor did I see him as controversial. Cartoonish, yes, over the top, yes, but not “risky.” Color never entered into my view of him. D&D have done a great job of removing the cartoonish aspects of the books that appeal more to fantasy fans, but would put off the casual viewer. He was a flat character to begin with, so flattening him further for general consumption made him cuttable IMO.

Also, Tormund needs to end up North of the Wall. I see two possible ways to do this:
1- he is called back to Mance when Styr arrives.
2- he survives the battle during episode 9 and is sent (later in the episode) as a bargaining chip when Jon goes to treat with Mance (when he actually plans to kill Mance).

Jentario,
I think I agree with you that including Balwas in the show would be a bit risky.What I meant by symbolism was that Balwas was a slave and the champion belongs to the high class of Essos. The way Balwas interacts with him is a pretty clear way of saying: I might be a slave to you, but in reality when it comes to fighting, all you are good for is cleaning my ass with you.

Not so much blow it out. Chalkys fight definitely not close. Eli’s fight maybe but there was no emotional reaction from me. I couldn’t care less who won there. In fact deep down I wanted Knox because he is an amazing character and actor. With Dority it had to be him. And the fact that you had no idea how it was gonna turn out,made it that much sweeter at the end.

You also have to look at context. AL being reserved to engage as he ponders Hearsts motives. Dan itching to fight and calling out Al as a pussy. The viewer wanting redemption from Als attack. It was one of the greatest scenes in the series and certainly the best HUZZAH moment.

I’m thinking option 2. Can’t see him climbing back over the Wall. It was hard enough the first time. But why does he need to end up there? Did I miss a leaked scene? I know there was an audition scene of a discussion between the two, but that could have just been a scene written specifically for the audition or one that was cut from S3. If option 2, then I can see the scene with Tormund arguing for believing Jon, and Styr being the final hold out against accepting Jon’s terms. And leaves plenty of time to get to know Styr as a character as he hangs out with Mance on the trek to the wall.

Or, option 3, Tormund makes his way through the gate early in the battle, before the final assault. Don’t like this, though. Too Hollywood.

We’ll agree to disagree I guess. I find Deadwood to be pretty over-rated. I care about Chalky way more than I cared about any character on Deadwood. Was real scared for him during that fight and actually thought he was gonna get it for a second there.

I guess we will. The Wire is the only other show that I know of apart from Deadwood that has combined superior writing, directing, and acting on a consistent basis.

I only cared about Chalky for a fraction this season. The last episode when he showed so much emotion when his daughter was killed. And I am now curious as to what his next move is. . Other than that, Chalky has been a disappointment and not fully realized.

Well if you listened to the cheesey story, she does explain that she was of nobility but has a disdain for the way the nobility treated slaves and abandoned it all together… so it makes sense that she would speak to a man of nobility in that way while treating the smallfolk he has ruined. It’s not out of character at all, and you could tell how frustrated she was at the time.

Anyway, I’m all for Thorne taking Noye’s place, it’d be an emotional moment for Jon to see this man who’s given him so much shit believing in him and giving him the Wall

Abyss:Jentario,
I think I agree with you that including Balwas in the show would be a bit risky.What I meant by symbolism was that Balwas was a slave and the champion belongs to the high class of Essos. The way Balwas interacts with him is a pretty clear way of saying: I might be a slave to you, but in reality when it comes to fighting, all you are good for is cleaning my ass with you.

There are plenty of massive sumo wrestlers out there that could play SB. The showrunners could have done him justice, but chose not to, preferring to stick with dragons and deranged slavers/sellswords as the various smattering of monsters in Essos. To me, SB came across as a gargantuan Mountain-like character, but more of a truly capable professional fighter than a complete sociopath. In fact, he was somewhat passive, even boring, when not fighting. He would have been fun to watch onscreen, not awkward, but since GoT already has a crazy Mountain in Westeros and chaotic dragons in Essos, I can see why the showrunners left him behind.

Essos is full of crazy, off-the-charts, colorful characters but the showrunners don’t seem to want to go there, sticking with dragons and human conspiracy instead. Maybe when other main characters arrive in S5, we’ll see some truly exaggerated supporting characters come forth.

I will miss the few memorable scenes outside and inside Meereen with SB but other known characters will probably carry his fighter responsibilities and violent suffering.

There’s no denying that the Wire is a masterpiece but I think the Sopranos is better. Mainly because its more consistent (seasons 2 and 5 of the wire a pretty weak imo, season 1 is very good but its only seasons 3 and 4 that are amazing.) I found Sopranos to be solid throughout its run (yes I even liked the dream episodes in season 6!)

I would have agreed with you about Chalky pre-season 4. I thought season 4 was the first time that they utilized him properly and gave him a sufficient amount of screen-time and I thought he as a character and Michael K Williams as an actor excelled. Before season 4 I thought of Chalky as being Omar in the 1920’s but in season 4 he really became his own man and I think its the best acting MKW has ever delivered.

Seriously. I put my list up before. I don’t watch much. HBO series is about it. A woman man has no capacity for commercials. And Showtime blows. And I don’t Netflix or the like. And I don’t illegally download.

Off topic but I hate the term “Overrated”. I wish it could be dropped from our critical lexicon. Instead of saying, “well that wasn’t my cup of tea because of x reasoning” to call something over rated infers that the people who praised said show/movie were in fact lying to themselves or were simply wrong. It’s completely antithetical to critical discourse. Arrogant even. “Well I didn’t like this show so this relative or friend who really likes it has poor taste as does anyone else who liked it”.

Sure they could have included SB in the show. I am actually really sad that they didn’t, I think he is awesome. I just think that his crazy, larger than life character wouldn’t have translated to screen very well, at least for the majority of the viewers.

Joshua Atreides:Abyss,
Exactly. Remember the outcry and accusations of racism at the ending of season 3?SB would have been a PC disaster. Not to mention that he would come off as a live action He-Man sidekick.

Let ’em cry foul if they want. I would have enjoyed seeing a massive sumo wrestler-type in that role. Could have been awkwardly, weirdly cool, maybe even some comic relief….almost like Huell was for Saul.

I wasn’t saying Talisa’s back chat was out of character; I was saying it would be a daft thing for a woman in her position to do. After all, she hardly knew Robb at the time so would have no idea he was decent. If she had spoken to Joffrey or Tywin that way rather than Robb – she would likely have been beheaded. We’ll just have to agree to disagree on that point I guess.

Joshua Atreides: Off topic but I hate the term “Overrated”. I wish it could be dropped from our critical lexicon. Instead of saying, “well that wasn’t my cup of tea because of x reasoning” to call something over rated infers that the people who praised said show/movie were in fact lying to themselves or were simply wrong.

I agree. Some of the messages can be a bit “trollish”. There is nothing wrong with healthy debate and of course with the number of people who contribute to this website there are bound to be varying outlooks. For instance, House Mormont and Joh have a different perspective on the Talisa story line to myself, though I think (I hope) we have been polite in our exchange of opinions. I’ve liked Oona Chaplin in other shows, so it’s not her that I can’t take to, just the person she plays.

While I believe you fail to see how much of a disaster that SB would have been (or not, I”ll concede that maybe I’m being pessimistic on that outcome) I’m beginning to get the impression that the moment D & D signed on to this series they were automatically damned if they do, damned if they don’t. Despite the millions they are raking in, I don’t envy them at all.

This MGoT post says that the battle was shot after the rest was shot, or at least most of it. Rose Leslie was in Northern Ireland at that time and was filming there, where she took that pizza place photo with the actors who play Jon, Sam, Styr and Tormund. Also, that picture that was posted here by some reporter from Neil Marshall a couple of months ago, showed the attack from the south with a preponderance of bald-headed Thenns. These factors, along with Neil Marshall saying in that interview that his episode would have three battles simultaneously, led many to assume the merger.

A thought on CGI – it must have cost the show-runnersa king’s ransom to have the Dothraki and Valeryan languages made up – if they had gone with existing dead languages they might have saved some money for CGI effects.Th BBC’s “Merlin” which admittedly was a very different show [aimed at the family including the kids Saturday autumn/winter night audience] used Old English for the casting of spells and was quite effective.

No – it doesn’t cost them a king’s ransom. It basically costs them one extra guy’s wage.

I don’t know “exactly” how much they pay David J Peterson to make the languages, but his paycheck would not even be 1% of the cgi budget.

Not because they underpay him… But because CGI is hideously expensive.

It’s like saying I didn’t buy a coffee today, so now I can afford a Ferrari.

Yeah, chances are they’ll give them scenes once in a while that set up their dynamic with Styr and then give us some battle prep stuff. If Ciarin Hinds CV http://www.ciaranhinds.eu/movie.php?cle=mov101 is correct, he’ll be having pre-battle screentime this year too, so they’ll have to give some time for the wildlings without the Jon POV to be our foot in the door.

Interestingly, the CV indicates he will appear in most if not all episodes (he is listed under all writers and all directors). That seems highly unlikely. I think whoever wrote that just included all the directors and writers from season 4 rather than just the ones that worked with Ciaran Hinds. Could you honestly imagine Mance appearing in the wedding episode?

Interestingly, the CV indicates he will appear in most if not all episodes (he is listed under all writers and all directors). That seems highly unlikely. I think whoever wrote that just included all the directors and writers from season 4 rather than just the ones that worked with Ciaran Hinds. Could you honestly imagine Mance appearing in the wedding episode?

Actually I can. Don’t think the wedding episode will take all the episode, because if they do that for 2 & 9 there is almost nothing left for story progression and 60 minutes of a wedding sounds very very dull. I would give the wedding we’re talking about 10 to 15 minutes screentime and maybe 5-6 in the first episode, but more is certainly not needed.

Bad News – I’ve been trolling the HBO upcoming schedule. I was hoping for a short Buzz or Making Of for GoT on 1/12/14 as that is the debut date for True Detective and Girls. But there is nada on the schedule… I think the best we can hope for is a very short blurb with maybe the premiere date announced. Keeping fingers crossed that something will show up on the schedule but does not look good now.

It’s possible, but of all characters I just don’t see Mance showing up. I think the episode that we should reference here is episode 8- as in, wedding scenes will happen throughout the episode with some cuts away to a slim set of stories. It’s unrealistic to think they’ll only have 10 minutes of the wedding. Maybe it’ll be 20. Consider everything that needs to get set up, all the characters and stories in King’s Landing (Jamie and Brienne, Sansa and Dontos, Cersei and Loras, Tywin, Tyrion and Shae, Oberyn and Ellaria, Joffrey and Margery, Mace and Olenna, Roose and Fat Walda, Varys and maybe Littlefinger). This is a much bigger wedding than anything we’ve ever seen on the show. I think it’s definitely possible the whole episode will focus on the pre wedding, the ceremony and the reception. GRRM dis say there would be half time entertainment too ;)

It’s possible, but of all characters I just don’t see Mance showing up. I think the episode that we should reference here is episode 8- as in, wedding scenes will happen throughout the episode with some cuts away to a slim set of stories. It’s unrealistic to think they’ll only have 10 minutes of the wedding. Maybe it’ll be 20. Consider everything that needs to get set up, all the characters and stories in King’s Landing (Jamie and Brienne, Sansa and Dontos, Cersei and Loras, Tywin, Tyrion and Shae, Oberyn and Ellaria, Joffrey and Margery, Mace and Olenna, Roose and Fat Walda, Varys and maybe Littlefinger). This is a much bigger wedding than anything we’ve ever seen on the show. I think it’s definitely possible the whole episode will focus on the pre wedding, the ceremony and the reception. GRRM dis say there would be half time entertainment too ;)

If you put it this way with this amouth of characters then I could see a 20 minutes of wedding. But add 5 minutes of Balon Greyjoy (death?) 2-3 of Stannis a couple of shots at the wall and maybe some arya storyline. But I am quite sure they will not use two episodes featuring just one story, they have too few time already and 60 minutes of a wedding is just pointless. Ok a dancing bear would be cool bút I rather have some story progression instead.

I agree, but I do think the episode will mostly feature the wedding, alongside a few scenes from other storylines (similar to episode 8 of season 3 but with an even bigger focus on the wedding). I wonder which other characters could feature in this episode… Likely characters that won’t appear in episode 1. Maybe we’ll see Bran and Yara and Theon (as I think they will focus on the more relevant/flashy/popular characters in the premiere)?

Any way, I can’t wait for season 4. For some reason, I’m extremely excited to see the Premier now (remembering how weird and awesome it was last year- as a Sullied for the first time).

I haven’t watched ” Boardwalk Empire “, despite it’s very good period history premise,
and great costuming. However, this actor’s name caught my attention. Good to know
he’s still very much alive, and acting, still.

BTW, still enjoying the Brussel Sprouts & Chestnuts recipe ( I looked one up based
on your recommendation ). meant to tell you that, some time ago.

Joshua Atreides:
Off topic but I hate the term “Overrated”. I wish it could be dropped from our critical lexicon. Instead of saying, “well that wasn’t my cup of tea because of x reasoning” to call something over rated infers that the people who praised said show/movie were in fact lying to themselves or were simply wrong. It’s completely antithetical to critical discourse. Arrogant even. “Well I didn’t like this show so this relative or friend who really likes it has poor taste as does anyone else who liked it”.

I could easily agree to the overuse of the word , however despite many persons aversion
to look up dictionary words or phrases, even this action becomes annoying as usage
sometimes create changes in itself. Overall, taking to mind thoughtful expression
often corrects the mistake, if only to clarify one’s meaning ( which is , in part, what
you were suggesting.

On another note ,

Joshua Atreides: Remember the outcry ad accusations of racism at the ending of season 3?

Joshua Atreides: Remember the outcry ad accusations of racism at the ending of season 3?

( sorry, I made a slip of wrist, above, to send comment, before writing ) :

Yes, this is another example of perspectives and certain words often forging a critical
view in place of accurate or realistic events. It’s disconcerting, to say the least, as I’ve witnessed many words or signals of attitudes which fuel animosity rather than invite debate. When taken out of context , from the original subject or fact, wildly misconstrued beliefs often taint the purpose of the discussion. Certainly this was true with how the conversation disintegrated, among some, however not the whole of the discussion or the assertions of the WiC panel.

I noted a bit earlier, that Jentario mentioned similar comments ( several others, in the past ). And I understand well enough, where the thought becomes tangled with that controversial forum. However difficult it becomes for some to disentangle the point of discussion from respectful discourse to distracting outcries, we must do so or forever recall something that is not accurate. What I recall, from the topic, was to address the
(1) possible hidden socio-political aspect of the Myhsa episode ending and (2) the lack of representation of non white roles, with respect to the given lands in and about Westeros.

Writing as one that took part in that forum, and
initially stood neutral to the views of the panel, I am disappointed that all that is remembered were ” outcries of racism ” or ” black / white ” talk. Having read 100’s of comment threads, before engaging a response to correct aberrant thoughts deviating from the topic or at least calling forth unconceived alternatives. Where I may not have fully appreciated the topic in the beginning, I gained much insight and respect for
those questioning the direction of the GoT -Myhsa episode. I did so so without the need to categorise or label participants. Sometimes we are all guilty for taking things out of context, or deliberately look for similar opinion, to prove a point. While online, this becomes a dangerous and nasty habit that destroys web discourse. At least in person, one is able to discern one’s intent, somewhat better, and move forward. Online, there needs to be some propriety towards social behaviour…..and still have fun. *>*

Just watched 3.3 and 3.4 last night. When Mance tells Tormund to climb the Wall, he tells him to send Orell’s eagle above the Wall each night to watch for “the biggest fire the north has ever seen” as the signal to attack. Apparently, they WILL be attacking together–that was the plan. Missed it on the first watch, but it made my ears perk up on this one since we’ve been discussing it here. Perhaps that is where the Mole’s Town madame will come into the story, as Tormund et al will have some time to kill south of the wall, and the brothers left at CB will be a little busy hearing Jon’s story and welcoming Sam and Gilly. A re-ordering of the story, but an understandable one, and not necessarily a bad one. Just can’t figure out where Styr and Tormund will hook up. Surprises for the Sullied! Can’t wait!

Sorry to interrupt the newest arguments for and against Strong Belwas and what next year’s episodes will entail, but something you said caught my eye. It looks as though there was another detail that you missed on your second watching as well. Specifically the part about Orell watching for the signal, “the biggest fire the North has ever seen”. Orell is dead. He most likely will see the fire since he most likely is trapped in the hawk, but unless they want to have him warg into one of the other wildlings there is no way for him to relay that information to Torumd. Therefore it would be impossible to actually coordinate the attacks to happen at the same time unless they somehow found another way to signal each other.

Edit: Just remembered that they made a point in the show when Bran warged into Hodor to say that warging into another person was unheard of, so that unlikely scenario is even less likely.

Toast: Sorry to interrupt the newest arguments for and against Strong Belwas and what next year’s episodes will entail, but something you said caught my eye.It looks as though there was another detail that you missed on your second watching as well.Specifically the part about Orell watching for the signal, “the biggest fire the North has ever seen”.Orell is dead.He most likely will see the fire since he most likely is trapped in the hawk, but unless they want to have him warg into one of the other wildlings there is no way for him to relay that information to Torumd.Therefore it would be impossible to actually coordinate the attacks to happen at the same time unless they somehow found another way to signal each other.

After landing on Tormund’s shoulder,One peck on the head = hold attack
Two pecks = attack
Three pecks = Mole’s Town is open for business
It is known.

Also, will the eagle serve as a sentry for approaching enemies, only to be zapped by Mel’s laser eyes?

Then I guess it’s back to us to guess how much we’ll see Ciarin. There was no filming news about him, but I assumed that, because he is Irish, there would be little stir caused by him being in Ireland. I had thought that, because I assumed that was a legitimate source, that he would have an increase in screentime and maybe even join the main cast. But now…For consistency’s sake I hope at least that we see him again.

I thought the first two seasons of Deadwood were some of the best historical (partially fictionalized) drama that HBO has done.
My own favorite in the history drama category is ROME.
GRRM so loved ROME, he was afraid GOT might kill it….
he got lucky ROME was struck down by the BBC and RAI pulling out of the 2nd season … tho in the long run HBO was startled by ROME’s DVD sales and even regretted not continuing the series.

Talk now of HBO doing I CLAUDIUS …. the BBC version was almost perfect, but I would love to see a version not STAGE BOUND… and think it could be done.

Well it’ll certainly be a while before the Umbers have any serious role to play. Season 6 is when I imagine they’ll be brought in. They could always expand on the roles a bit too (and maybe even show Mors and the green boys digging the snow pit traps).

I like Ian McShane (except in endless repeats of “Lovejoy” though I can settle that with the remote) but if he had played Mance wouldn’t the people who have whinged and whined about Ciaran Hinds being too old for the part have whinged and whined even more if Mr McShane had got the gig, Mr McShane being considerably the older of the two?

Dang! Thought I was on to something, but forgot Orell is already dead at this point. Must have confused him with Varamyr. I guess poor Tormund IS going to have to shinny back over the Wall. All the more reason that we need SOMETHING from HBO. Please!
Lef and Patchy: There was a very short Buzz last night between eps about the Golden Globes that wasn’t on my schedule. I think that they just squish those things in when they have a couple of minutes. Have seen the Happy Holidays one ALOT, but…need more please!
I’ll just shut up and go back to lurking…

Yes, I am. Sorry about that. I’m should be ashamed, because I’m well aware of
McShane’s work, and recently watched his role in ” Jack, the Giant Slayer “, as
it aired on HBO. The only role I’d consider him for, on GoT, would be as a
Greyjoy. McNeice, on the other hand, definitely fits the image of lord Manderly,
from GRRM’s description. Also, for me, his face and demeanor is ingrained
in my mind as Doctor Who’s ” Wm Churchill “.

Very possible. We got a release date teaser in season 3, and it was released way back in November. We might be getting one of those any day now. It’s about time they announce the premier date, anyway. Then WiC could get that timer going :)

Rygar , you should bid the good folk here, the favour of revealing your true form, that
is, gender. You are a good trickster, but definitely male, by all indications from archived posts ( and I’ve seen your photo ). Being the love child of actor Burt Reynolds and Dinah Shore did come come as a shock though. ( :

I’ll not reveal your other ” secrets “, though. Your better talents will be left for you to reveal, later.

Hey! That’s my Manderly! I always imagined him as Churchill from Doctor Who.

McShane can easily be Aeron Greyjoy (he would outplay book Aeron, probably). That said, it would be a Christmas miracle if Aeron doesn’t get cut. I’m not sure he’s the right guy for Victarion or Euron, though. I can’t let go of Ray Stevenson as Victarion…

There’s still the North to consider. Arnolf Karstark or Whoresbane Umber (yes I know they’d need significantly more screen time for that casting to work). Might be a stretch to suggest Areo Hotah, but maybe the show has too many Ians already. Or too many Ian Mc-someones if we get our dream Manderly.

No matter how actor McShane challenges himself, at different roles ( king, priest,
good guy ), he really excels at player darker characters. When ” Pillars of the Earth”
came about, the role fit him to a ” T “, where he personified a villainess priest/pope.
can you imagine him in a pious role ? It sets my teeth on edge, LMAO ! On the other
hand, if further revisions of ASOIAF to screen continues in the pace it has, McShane
would prove stellar as a pivotal figure at the ” kings moot “, if not a central Greyjoy
family member. I can even see him as a fellow follower of Rh’llor, equally powerful
as Moquorro.

Actor Ray Stevenson, among other entries, have shown up on similar lists, here,
from archived threads. He would prove an asset to the show.

On another note :
Right now, Game of Thrones has a lot to prove to their peer production types, and the
film media as well ( fans of both the books and show are fine ). More and more
television and film critics are resisting to list GoT as one of the shows to watch.
This may be shocking to some of us, but not surprising to those in the critics circle.
Even the SanFrancisco Chronicle failed to list it, and that was a surprise to me,
as it didn’t even make the list .

Much is being planned for an impactful season and details kept under wraps, lest
spoilery ruin the fun. Readers know much of where the premise of the books lead
us, and viewing some adaptation of bodes well for screen purposes, so we’ll be okay.
Those who remain clueless, or rely solely on high crescendo moments ( hear that
TV media critics ! ) will vacillate in appeal for the show. Like 5 star or 1 star Amazon
reviews, I disregard them for those citing some cognizant reasoning behind their
perceptions of the show. Truth is, it’s really subjective, but having a preconceived
agenda really hurts an honest go at it. To quote the-most-interesting-man-in-the
world, ” stay thirsty, my friends”

The character must return, for any North of the Wall commands to take place.
And with some selective admixing of ADWD material to season 4, a
battle at Castle Black, would put Tormund or someone else in charge.
There’s also the ambiguity of some roles that have officially been cast, and those
that remain open, when they may prove central to some scenes Val or Dalla,
among other. The truth is there’s much detail that is deliberately being withheld
from the media, and it’s likely a pragmatic decision by the production. I’m fine
with the wait, and appreciative of whatever tidbits that Cat Taylor and WiC have
presented thus far. It’s worth the wait. As for Ciarin Hinds’ penultimate or
resuming return to his role on GoT, is anyone’s guess. I hope he’s not ill, or something.

On another note :
Has anyone seen the latest BBC version of the show ” Atlantis ” ? My perceptions
thus far are none too favourable. The cast includes Mark Addy ( king Robert ),
Alexander Siddig ( a definite shoe in for any pivotal Dorne character ), and Gillian
Anderson ( a must for lady Barbary Dustin ). So sad that their talents aren’t
being lent to GoT. Then again, there’s always the future………. *>*

And you saying you are a straight male directly conflicts with you saying that large wangs are better from the “receiving end”. It also directly conflicts with you saying “us ladies”. But I guess it’s possible you were an evil mastermind from the start.

More and more television and film critics are resisting to list GoT as one of the shows to watch.

What alternate universe are you from, GoT is consistently rated as one of the top shows on television by critics. A Metascore of 90 for season 3, then there are EW, Variety, Rolling Stone, et al., then critic circle top ten lists. You really need to do your research before making a statement such as that above. I realize some critics still are not enamored with GoT, but the vast majority have.

obviously not from the parallel universe you reside in………… I stated my source.
Inasmuch as recent posts, here at WiC and other links have provided, I was
disappointed as any fan. For what it’s worth, respecting what’s written by critics,
is by no way accepting their point of view. For whatever the biases against or
for Game of Thrones, the viewers challenge these by remaining tuned in to watch.
Accolades haven’t ended either, though fewer than we’d all hoped.

well this was a bit harsh, and possibly misclassified early December posts, here at
WiC. What is accurate, is Game of Thrones has received another AFI acknowledgement( third in succession ), and remains firmly on lists made by some film media press.There has been, to some degree, a resistance by some, either general news press orgs, or biased entertainment writers, in including GoT on their lists of best shows or ones to watch. EW’s Alan Sepinwall was discussed here, specifically, but there have been others that have omitted GoT in their lineup. It’s their perspective, not mine.

I’m surprised to find an omission with the San Francisco Chronicle entertainment editor, but that’s that. Free speech and all. No worries, just keep calm and carry on.

Holy crap man was there a need to come down on Wildseed like that? She’s posted here a long time and has always been civil!

And she is right there is a selection of critics who have not listed GoT in their year end lists. Most notably Andy Greenwald. However i think Greenwald has decided to exclude the series from his list due to the fact of it being an adaptation. He even conceded unlike Sepinwall that the series is not designed for individual episode construction. Sepinwall still begrudges the series for this. When Greenwald did his piece on the year in television, in big events he made a footnote to the Red Wedding saying that it doesn’t count because half the audience was aware of it. I believe that others have adopted this attitude that GoT is a special television event, a ten hour epic and should not be compared to regular network or cable series.

Furthermore its possible these critics were pissed off at the Red Wedding in general. They don’t know whether to say it stemmed from the show writers organically or whether it’s another event from the books that was inserted into the series. Sepinwall has made various comments about how Benioff and Weiss are loading in key moments from the novels without the dramatic paperwork to achieve it. Even though these events gain that organic feel when viewed on the momentum of a binge watch. Despite its twists and turns, as episodes bleed into one, it is clear GoT is not friendly to recap culture.

Joshua Atreides: I believe that others have adopted this attitude that GoT is a special television event, a ten hour epic and should not be compared to regular network or cable series.

Do you really think so? Because that would be an absolutely nonsensical position, especially for a critic. The concept of a self-contained TV series (or season) with one big story line is nothing new and the fact that GoT belongs in this category certainly doesn’t make it unusual in any way. Hell, it could even be argued, that it’s common practise for pay-TV to use this formula.

Jesus Christ. Trying to rewatch S3 again and I am finding that I can’t get thru E301 without needing to mute every time Rose Leslie speaks. I can’t even look at her. For fucks sake. ” he was my brother once, back when he had a whole hand”. Great line there D&D. Almost as good as GURM saying that the books are his.

I prefer Jons reasoning to join Mance better in the book. The whole bastard at the table bit.

Exactly. In the case of the Wire, the word “novelistic” was used to compliment it. In that program the art form was also “the season” rather than “the episode”. I think that is also the whole purpose of Netflix original programming like House of Cards, to be taken back to back.

Also I doubt that as much as half of the show’s viewership is made up of book readers. The show has increased the books’ readership, that is clearly true, but I would say that at most, a fifth of the show’s viewers have read aSoIaF.

Please let me know what other epics you know of on television, I’d love to watch them too, seriously.

IMO nothing on TV is even close to the huge scale of GoT, the cinematography, the huge cast and locations with twisting plots and multiple storylines. The fantasy elements with Hollywood quality CGI, the fact it’s rated R with no commercials and allows you just to escape reality for 60mins and totally immerse yourself in a medieval fantasy world.

What other TV show does that?

For this reason and conversations I have with co-workers, friends and family, I agree with Josh. Many people I know plan large get togethers accompanied with BBQs, homemade food, alchole and just all around good times.

Andy Greenwald has pretty much said it himself. Read their recaps, they are frustrated they cant have the fine glass of wine they intake when watching Mad Men and The Sopranos or Breaking Bad. With those shows each episode is very distinct and has a beginning, a middle and an end. Grand arcs carry through but each episode has a certain construct. GoT simply carries through the arc over many episodes. They attempt to weave themes together but that’s not their ultimate goal. If you look at the episodes those critics love the most it’s those insulated ones like the Prince of Winterfell or Walk of Punishment or Second Sons. Many tv critics praised Mhysa despite it being low rated amongst Sullied and Unsullied.

Hey! That’s my Manderly! I always imagined him as Churchill from Doctor Who.

McShane can easily be Aeron Greyjoy (he would outplay book Aeron, probably). That said, it would be a Christmas miracle if Aeron doesn’t get cut. I’m not sure he’s the right guy for Victarion or Euron, though. I can’t let go of Ray Stevenson as Victarion…

I could see him as Euron Crow’s Eye, or as Aeron. He’s about the right age – he’s 71 and Patrick Malahide is 69. So it works. He’d also be well convincing as bug-fuck crazy Euron. It’s about the only role he’d work for at this point, and his 3-ep stint on American Horror Story suggests he’d take a small role.

Arthur,
I know that you know your TV and you are very knowledgeable when it comes to the subject, but I think you are confusing the word “epic” with something like “huge in scale” (and admittedly, in a more lose context that’s what it’s used for) but what an epic really is, is a (long) tale, and I used it in that way.
But even when we go by your definition I can name at least one TV show that matches your criteria (except for the medieval fantasy world, that’s a bit to specific ;)). That would be Rome.
Anyway, I never wanted to argue that GoT isn’t a TV event, but why shouldn’t it be compared to regular network or cable series because of that? The Sopranos, The Wire, Deadwood or Breaking Bad had a similar “novelistic” approaches, asGreenjones put it and these shows have been compared to regular network or cable series, so why shouldn’t GoT?

Well, it’s true that The Sopranos or Breaking Bad have bit more rounded episodes than GoT (can’t talk about Mad Men, haven’t watches enough of it), but I see GoT only as the evolution of this.
And as for the beginning, the middle and the end, if Andy Greenwald feels that this isn’t there for him, well, tough. And you no what, he is probably even right to some extend when it comes to every episode. I personal will wait until the end of the series to say anything about beginning, middle and end. :D

The definition of epic is the only thing we disagree on, IMO in books it’s definition is “a long tale” but in movies it’s definition is “a large scale”.

If epic only meant “a long tale” in TV terms than every TV series would basically be considered an epic. But they clearly are not…

Also even HBO commercials regarding GoT usually say something like “The epic returns” and stuff like that, that HBO only says about their GoT series…

I don’t mean to argue by splitting hairs and I know I have a reputation of using words like “badass” and “epic” a bit to much but in all honestly it’s only because IMO GoT is a series that really warrants those terms.

BB and The Wire are great great TV shows but you can’t classify them as epics, the “TV” definition of epic that is. But what BB and The Wire lacked on “scale” they more than made up for with writing/acting and stood more so on those merits. Know what I mean?

GoT has to shoot in multiple countries and find places and create sets to fit their medieval fantasy world. They have to create costumes and even fake languages. They have a huge amount of characters and storylines. They have to CGI in fantasy elements and film large scale battle scenes… There is so much more “scale” involved in GoT than most other shows and that’s why, IMO, I define it as an epic…

Well, I think you are right, we do disagree an the definition of “epic”. ;-) – But than again, I studied the subject in Germany and it could in fact be true, that the meaning is a bit different in English speaking countries.
And to be quite clear about it, is a principle of language, that the meaning of words does change. Twenty years down the line my definition might be just wrong and yours might be absolutely right. While I think that the exact meaning of words is important, it’s best to never forget this little fact. ;-)

Epic tends to generally refer to something vast in terms of time, space or scope usually with the added dimension of being fantastic or in a period foreign to us now. So Ben-Hur is an epic, GoT is an epic, so is Lord of the Rings. BB? No. Not that it isn’t awesome, but the setting (all in New Mexico), size of cast (really 7-8 regulars, a handful of recurring), and time (couple of years) doesn’t qualify as an epic. The Wire probably not either nor Sopranos.

If you look at the episodes those critics love the most it’s those insulated ones like the Prince of Winterfell or Walk of Punishment or Second Sons.

Prince of Winterfell? What critics praised that? That was the dull set up episode prior to Blackwater where they skipped weasel soup. I specifically remember Sepinwall giving that episode a negative review and tons of fans on here and other forums not liking it. It was probably the most negatively received episode of S2.

I’ve seen some episodes of “Atlantis” and it is variable. The last two episodes were better but it follows the trend of changing the source material that some modern shows do. In my view it’s not quite as bad as “Once Upon a Time” [though I liked Regina and Leroy in OUAT] but it’s no GoT. The young male and female leads are eye-candy and Jemima Rooper as Medusa is quite good. I must have missed the episode with Gillian Anderson. The BBC doesn’t have HBO’s budget of course. They had a reasonably successful family show with “Merlin” and are trying to repeat the formula so with “Atlantis” they are not exactly boldly going where nobody has gone before – so it’s alright but not a game changer.

On a different topic I was looking at something else on the internet and came across excerpts of an art-house film based in England in the 1960s “Ginger and Rosa”. I don’t know if it was any good as a film but it had a number of non-English people in it (probably hoping a Hollywood name would bring in an audience). Now I have always rather thought the fan-casting of Christina Hendricks was a result of folk perhaps being on the whacky baccy but to be fair, during the limited amount I saw of her playing the less glamourous role of a rather harassed mother, she did speak with an English accent that sounded authentic to me. Apparently her Dad was from Birmingham, England and went to America when he was still a boy.

I think they meant Season 2 episode 8, which I agree was really bad. That and The Bear and the Maiden Fare would be at the bottom of my list as they are pretty much 95% filler (and GoT doesn’t usually have filler).

Jentario,
I know, and I was saying I thought The Night Lands was worse than 2×08.

Cosca1,
I agree that The Bear and the Maiden Fair and The Night Lands are the worst in their respective seasons, however I would argue that The Kingsroad was worse than Lord Snow. Lord Snow had the brilliant King’s Landing scenes when Ned first arrives as well as Alliser training the new recruits. The Kingsroad had… nothing really.

Please don’t hate me. I hate reality tv. I love the Wire, the Sopranos, Breaking Bad and Mad Men. I love Shakespeare, Dickens, Karamazov, I love instrumental music (classical and modern), wine, cheese, world travel. I am a student of history and literature. And I think The Prince of Winterfell is one of the best episodes of the series.
*flinches to prepare for the onslaught of hate*

Nothing?
Needle.
Saying goodbye to Robb and Bran.
Ned’s promise to Jon about his mother.
The Ned and Robert scene.
Joffrey is attacked, the aftermath.
The assassination attempt.
The great scene in the Godswood with Cat, Robb, Theon and Maester Luwin.
Dany begins to get Drogo to love her.

The issue of GOT being a multifaceted series is that there’s usually one weak story arc, though not necessarily from the same character. For example, Theon’s arc in season 2, was brilliant, but in season 3 it took a turn for the worst. They shouldn’t have to play by normal TV rules, and if the choice is to either allude to the torture at a later point (only in Mhysa) and seeing every painful moment unfold, there’s no question which option is better.

I never think episodes as either good or bad, just the quality of some of the parts can ruin the strong material. I would say Garden of Bones is one of my favourite episodes of the second season, along with TOG&TN, Blackwater and Valar Morghulis. But to enjoy Tyrion putting down Joffrey or seeing the birth of the shadow baby, there’s Talisa’s arrival to put up with, or that incredibly-stupid fart in the opening sequence, a cheap laugh like that belongs on Jackass.

I know your feelings on Mad Men, but Hendricks has delivered incredible performances on that series. She gets the public view of being a big buxom pinup girl type and because of this she is underestimated due to this image. She is an excellent actress. I knew she would be doing great work ever since I saw her on Firefly.

E301 is pretty horrid. I think that’s why I struggled enjoying that season as much as previous. Well that and I simultaneously watched all seasons of the Wire during initial airing of GoT S3. An unfair comparison and a mistake on my part. Damn you HBO Go for tempting me with the ease of having such brilliance at my finger swipes.

Its a shame too as I love Minihan and thought the directing was great. But the writing and acting deplorable in most instances.

It seems like in one or two instances they strive to hit some target Jackass audience. I would love to sit around in the writers room and get an idea on how certain elements are included. They must know that a certain idea would backfire on their target audience.

Not a great episode but the Tywin/Tyrion, Cersei/Margaery and Dany stuff is pretty solid in my opinion. Though it feels like 301 and 302 are all from the same episode only with the scenes jumbled around. The rush over on the Fist of the First Men sets the tone for the episode I think. The first two eps stray away from introducing a building momentum. Instead it focuses on setting up the characters for the season.

Third time trying to type this …. I was surprised that Christina Hendricks could do an English accent, not that she could act. I have not seen much of her work so find it hard to judge her talent and of course having a well-developed chest does not stop a woman having a brain. It’s true that I am in the minority of one who never cottoned on to “Mad Men”. There have been some stinkers of English accents by Americans over the years … though I’m quite sure British actors have done awful American accents too ….

Joshua Atreides:
Please don’t hate me. I hate reality tv. I love the Wire, the Sopranos, Breaking Bad and Mad Men. I love Shakespeare, Dickens, Karamazov, I love instrumental music (classical and modern), wine, cheese, world travel. I am a student of history and literature. And I think The Prince of Winterfell is one of the best episodes of the series.
*flinches to prepare for the onslaught of hate*

I also really enjoyed the prince of winterfell, i am surprised by the amount of hate it got.

I remember seeing a list last year of actors who had turned down parts on GOT , for a lot of various reasons, but I don’t remember seeing Ian McShane on there… tho wasn’t Ray Stevenson? No I think Ray Stevenson has said he had not been asked… I guess he could still be?…..
Does anyone ever mention Kevin McKidd?
Both of them could fit a number of different roles from the story.

I had that vibe from the character when I read the book. Possibly because Isaacs played Captain Hook in a live-action Peter Pan film, more than for his role as Lucius Malfoy. Plus, I’ve never seen any of Ray Stevenson’s work either, where might I find him? I’ll also admit I’ve never seen McShane in anything either, I have yet to see Deadwood at all.

I haven’t heard about Mr McShane either trying for or being invited to audition for GoT. I knew he had been liked by certain fans and so I posted about him being on a cookery programme on Saturday in case any (UK) people wanted to see him. Occasionally the fans have got it right – Gwendoline Christie for Brienne and Peter Dinklage for Tyrion, notably. {And please, any people who didn’t want either of those two actors please don’t – figuratively – jump on me from a great height}. I must wean myself away from this site now because I have many things to do ……

Red wedding, what a controversial subject for any critic.
Kind of sad how hopeless the show has become to general media,
it says a lot when people can stand the walking deads nihilistic nature,
but not the brutality of GoT. “Unpolitical correct fantasy” can be a good description.

Isaacs would be an amazing Euron. I just finished a rewatch of Brotherhood. Michael Caffee is a complex man. While we’re at it how about the other Caffee brother? Jason Clarke as ? I know he’s on the rise but maybe he could do a brief cameo as Aeron or someone?

WildSeed: where he personified a villainess priest/pope.
can you imagine him in a pious role

The High Sparrow. The role you’re looking for is the High Sparrow. Which I can’t wait to see in Season 5, he’s a very interesting villain.

Also The Bear and the Maiden Fair was on UK TV last night, and it wasn’t a bad episode this time around, but that might be due to the breaks making me not get bored. Either way, there were no truly bad scenes, only the Jon & Ygritte scenes were a bit pointless. Either way I think the first quarter of The Climb, which was just pointless Meera & Osha, Jon & Ygritte scenes *shudder* was far worse

I’d say that the Jon and Ygritte scenes were way better than the Theon scene, and I say this as someone who liked his Season 3 storyline. That said, the Meera-Osha fight was definitely pointless.
Are you including the climbing scenes in that? Because I thought those were pretty good, despite the more cliche elements. The view from the top of the wall was gorgeous as well, and the romantic moment felt earned to me, especially as it came after the Chaos is a Ladder montage.

Theon’s dismembering scene? It was very uncomfortable to view but I guess that just means it was done well, it almost makes me pity the character, especially with Alfie’s acting.
And no I loved the climb scene, it was very intense, if unrealistic. And although the ending scene was a bit of an anticlimax when I first watched as an unsullied, I really appreciate it now. It was just the lack of things happening at the start of the episode.

I am also a fan of The Climb. I think GoT merits a rewatch binge soon afterwards or at least when it is released on video. All the episodes bleed into one, and the loss momentum between episodes (and therefore story arcs) is not lost because you don’t have to wait another week to pick up where you left off. During the hiatius between episodes we build up expectations over the week and those moments become so tangible that they end up disappointing us on the following sunday. But with the binge, we immediately go to the next scene and the series becomes tighter because of it. I’ve written above about how I feel critics are not viewing this series like regular television series (or rather they should not view the series as a regular series) and to me the series is twice as good when you consume it in large helpings as opposed to one dish a week.

I agree it’s much better on rewatch, it’s a lot easier to appreciate those more “stalemate” scenes where not much happens but there’s great dialogue or great acting, I find myself beaming away at simple conversations

Joshua Atreides:House Mormont,
I think GoT merits a rewatch binge soon afterwards or at least when it is released on video. All the episodes bleed into one, and the loss momentum between episodes (and therefore story arcs) is not lost because you don’t have to wait another week to pick up where you left off.

So true.

I find binge-watching so much more satisfying than the weekly traditional episodic teasing we’ve been getting for half a century. I actually enjoyed BB 10x more as a binge-watched show. Netflix’s House of Cards and Orange is the New Black are examples of new viewing/distribution models that appeal to DVR-spoiled binge-watchers. Especially with the well-thought-thru season-long arcs of these gifts to intelligent life on this planet, I find the binge technique much more satisfying. GoT definitely works better as a binge show, and I’ll not be working on Tues/Wed after GoT S3 comes out in Feb 2014. :)

Abyss: Do you really think so? Because that would be an absolutely nonsensical position, especially for a critic. The concept of a self-contained TV series (or season) with one big story line is nothing new and the fact that GoT belongs in this category certainly doesn’t make it unusual in any way. Hell, it could even be argued, that it’s common practise for pay-TV to use this formula.

Joshua ‘s quote here includes an assertion or opinion referencing the epic-ness of
GoT, with respect to it’s comparison to regular network or cable projects. For now,
there is example enough to conclude this to be more than an assertion.
Benioff & Weiss has taken on a production that expands locale and detailed events
that other peers could only envy. Getting such a project that the source material author
referred to as ” un-filmable “, goes beyond a basic template for even better made cable
projects. All to our benefit, I add. Game of Thrones is setting the pace for a new future
standard. Sure, some book fans are enthused, but now there is widespread enthusiasm
from viewers on every part of the globe. That’s remarkable ! I suppose there has been
much discussion here and elsewhere with supporting links of reference. Whether GoT
becomes a template of sorts, or not, the show, in my opinion, is groundbreaking ,
literally.

Right now, I’m re-watching episodes of Breaking Bad, with it’s beautiful vistas and
fevered pace of telling. Filmed on location in one or two places, the writing here
really paid off. I’m revisiting many scenes, and discovering the tidbits that I missed.

House Mormont: The High Sparrow. The role you’re looking for is the High Sparrow. Which I can’t wait to see in Season 5, he’s a very interesting villain.

This role would also be tailor made for McShane. I would hope that little else
compromises this part, to dilute the full impact. The High Sparrow and Cersei
onscreen should prove an Emmy performance for both actors. One could only
hope that actor McShane would lend his talents towards another cable role.

On another note, actor Mark Strong has been freed from ” Low Winter Sun “,
and no longer looking for Katja ( his love interest on the show ). I’m not certain
if he’d be a contender for the role of Jon Connington over my preference
of Kevin McKidd, but I’d adapt. Actually he’d be an asset in Dorne or anywhere.
I’d follow his lead, anytime.

Lol. Well thanks for almost having my back. Regarding PoW I think it works with watching Blackwater immediately after. Reasons why I Iove the episode:
1.Theon/Yara
2. Every scene in KL
3. Bolton prior to the Talisa scene. Ever notice he is in nearly every scene with Talisa?
4. First Jaime/Brienne banter
5. Stannis/Davos

I’m not a fan of the over the top romantic elements for ” the Climb “, but I cannot
argue with those beautiful vistas from the top of the Wall. There
is always something to appreciate, no matter how small.

I could see that too, he does have screen presence, and in leadership roles as well.
But……. is he forceful enough ? I suppose I have to revisit his filmography references.
I cannot get HP’s Lucius Malfoy, out of my brain.

Did you hear that actress Gillian Anderson is wasting her talent on ” Atlantis ” ?
Perhaps she’d become available in time for an installment of lady Barbry Dustin on GoT, when the time comes. So far, I can come up with no other contenders
for the role…… yet.

Those parts of the episode (and especially the cliche kiss at the end) were atrocious, but they did not manage to spoil an otherwise fantastic episode. I loved Littlefinger’s speech, even if he wouldn’t be as open about his plans to Varys in the books. I loved the Wall climbing scenes- really pretty and well directed, even if things don’t crack horizontally. Also, Ros’s death was a surprise.

Jentario: I loved Littlefinger’s speech, even if he wouldn’t be as open about his plans to Varys in the books.

He never really revealed his true intentions anyway. His speech was about how people who could have great influence and rise high in the world turn down offers of power for belief in government or religion that cannot promise anything. Anyway, it’s sort of obvious what he wants anyway. He knows that the only way for him to succeed is to trust in his own instincts, not the offers of this king or this noble lord and so on. He wants to be his own king, and doesn’t care how much desolation will come. Varys said as much in the gardens, apparently not full of enough ears for Littlefinger to hire a gay squire. Really, is that how he works, a source like that could surely be traced?

In the unaired pilot for the show (which filmed in Scotland and Morocco), McNiece played Illyrio Mopatis, so I’m sure the producers mean to put him in somewhere else, because as the full season was commissioned he must’ve been unavailable. Also, may the pilot be “un-unaired” at somepoint, even as an extra feature. I’m sure no one will care that Michelle Fairley isn’t Catelyn. Some of the scenes even made it into the first episode (the crypt scene is the best-known example).

House Mormont: The High Sparrow. The role you’re looking for is the High Sparrow. Which I can’t wait to see in Season 5, he’s a very interesting villain.

Also The Bear and the Maiden Fair was on UK TV last night, and it wasn’t a bad episode this time around, but that might be due to the breaks making me not get bored. Either way, there were no truly bad scenes, only the Jon & Ygritte scenes were a bit pointless. Either way I think the first quarter of The Climb, which was just pointless Meera & Osha, Jon & Ygritte scenes *shudder* was far worse

They dont need to cast the High Sparrow though because he is Varys, it is known

They should also try to fit in Jennifer Ehle (pilot Catelyn) to later GoT seasons. She didn’t continue with the show because she had a newborn at the time and it wouldn’t work with her schedule, but they should still try to incorporate her somehow. As a reddit comment said, casting her as Barbrey Dustin would have “meta-value” because of the whole Brandon scenario.

That doesn’t really fly when Mad Men and Masters Of Sex was on his list ahead of Game Of Thrones. I love Mad Men. The first 4 seasons were as good as it gets, but the latest season was not even close to GOT season 3. And Masters Of Sex was a good show, but it was not great. I won’t speak on shows I haven’t watched, but those two were not better than GOT this past year.

Metacritic has compiled the year end Top 10 lists from the various publications and Game Of Thrones(38 points) ranks 3rd, behind Breaking Bad(98 points) and Orange Is The New Black(42 points). Hitfix, the same website Sepinwall writes for, polled all of their TV critics and Game Of Thrones again ranked 3rd, behind only Breaking Bad and Orange Is The New Black.

I have a similar but alternative “suggestion”. I could see him as the Elder Brother/Septon Meribald (I think the two are so similar they should be combined into one character).

The characters have this background of “former soldier and scoundrel turned saintly priest”, and given how often McShane plays evil/seedy characters, it would be a great case of playing against type to have him as a holy man.

Also, McNiece is the only person I can see as Manderly (well, not quite the only- alternatives would be Brian Blessed or the late Richard Griffiths).

Watch Brotherhood, a 3 season Showtime series involving the Irish Caffee family in Providence, Rhode Island. Jason Isaacs plays Michael the eldest, a criminal and he is both sympathetic and brutal. The younger brother,Tommy, played by actor on the rise Jason Clarke is a member of the House of Representatives for the Irish district of the Hill. The series navigates between the mores of politics vs criminality. It’s a well written HBO Esque series. Fionnuala Flanagan rounds out the cast as the Caffee matriarch.

Isaacs and Clarke are fantastic. A very unappreciated series in my opinion.

My inclusion of actress Gillian Anderson, as the cave witch ( Circe ? Pasiphae ? ) in
episode 6, may be incorrect. I’ve found nothing on her Wiki page that lists
her for being cast in ” Atlantis “. It could be that the role is quite minor, and not
worth the mention. The IMBd site hasn’t listed the cast for the most recent episode.
If the witch is someone other than Anderson, she bears an uncanny resemblance
and voice similarity on the non disfigured side of the witch’s face.

Thanks for the clarification. I guess I’m a little more surprised why GoT wasn’t
included at all, on some polls like the SF Chronicle ( best TV shows of 2013 ).
I dismissed the article, but it still bugs me that an executive features editor and TV
critic would omit Game of Thrones from it’s list. To hell with ’em !

Some have indeed questioned the plausibility of certain events, for several episodes.
Yet overall, the show does qualify for an interesting drama. To be true, there is
much a comedy of errors found within most governments and their intelligence
units.

Really haven’t seen many of the polled TV listings, so I cannot defend or disparage,
but I do like ” Homeland”, if only for the intense pace. I haven’t found a reason to
watch ” The Good Wife “, and ” Mob City “, both included on the SF Chron list. How
can these be worthier than a production like GoT ?

I like to use metacritic as a way of getting a larger view of how many critics view a show. They usually collect reviews from 30-40 of the top critics and apply a score to each review. For instance, ‘Mob City’ was rated a 63/100 overall on their metascore, but SF Chronicle’s David Weigand gave it a full 100 score. So while one critic loved it, it received mixed, but mostly positive reviews overall.

I have discussed the “epic” problem with Arthur, in great detail and I get the point. But let me stress that it was never my main point anyway. I object against the notion that GoT shouldn’t be compared to other TV shows.

Abyss: Anyway, I never wanted to argue that GoT isn’t a TV event, but why shouldn’t it be compared to regular network or cable series because of that? The Sopranos, The Wire, Deadwood or Breaking Bad had a similar “novelistic” approaches, as
Greenjones put it and these shows have been compared to regular network or cable series, so why shouldn’t GoT?

For what ever reason, be it’s “epicness”, it’s affiliation with the fantasy genre or Podrick’s magic member. ;-)

Anyway, my dream cast list for the remaining seasons:
Characters that I have a dream cast for:
S5:
Wyman Manderly – Ian McNiece (because Baron Harkonnen as Wyman Manderly would be badass)
Tristifer Botley – George Blagden
Euron Greyjoy – David Wenham
Victarion Greyjoy – Ray Stevenson
Aeron Greyjoy – Jonathan Ryan (the drowned priest from 2×03)
Randyll Tarly – David O’Hara
Gerold Dayne – David Oakes
Arianne Martell – Aimee Garcia
Doran Martell – Jimmy Smits, although I would settle for Edward James Olmos
Quentyn Martell – Christian Antidormi?
Gerris Drinkwater – Todd Lasance?
Areo Hotah – Ron Perlman (just for the lolz. He would probably end up as an unknown or as a featured extra)
Nymeria/Obara Sand (I am assuming they will be combined) – Janina Gavankar
Tyene Sand – Caity Lotz
Jon Connington – Damian Lewis
Aegon – Jamie Campbell Bower OR Robert Sheehan (Bower has the Targaryen look, but Sheehan could pass as a nephew of Harry Lloyd)
The Tattered Prince/Brown Ben Plumm (I think they will be combined in the show) – John Hannah if he is modelled after Tatters, Giancarlo Esposito if he is modelled after Brown Ben.S6:
Sarella Sand (Alleras) – Karla Crome? (They would need to be able to pass as a boy, so that makes this one more difficult)
Moqorro – Idris Elba (I know, it would never happen)

Characters that I think will be included but I have no clue who should play them:
S5:
Jeyne Poole, Septon Meribald, High Sparrow, Hyle Hunt, The Kindly Man, Arys Oakheart, Septa Lemore, Cotter PykeS6:
Alys Karstark, Barbrey Dustin, Justin Massey, Val/Dalla, Archmaester Marwyn, Pate, Some member of House Frey at Winterfell

Characters that I think will appear as featured extras:
S5:
Arnolf Karstark (also S6), the boat captain that takes Rickon to Skagos, Brusco, Archibald Yronwood (I think he will take Cletus’ role and die early on to add drama), Harry Strickland (also S6), Denys MallisterS6:
Cregan Karstark, Leo Tyrell, A combination between Septas Unella, Moelle and Scolera

Thanks for the clarification, and reminder of Meta-critic scores. I sift through
some, when WiC posts the usual review links, but I’m not too diligent of reading
all. My opinion matters more to me, than some critic. I’m a tough customer, but
I don’t have an agenda or bias as some. I think I was just scanning the San Francisco Chronicle headlines, and saw the best shows lineup.

Nice list as always. The consideration of adding someone like Ron Perlman to the cast would be a blast for GRRM, and maybe us viewers as well. Not really certain where to pinpoint his role. I’m trying to remain calm about the Hyle Hunt character, as I really would like to see him included but also interested in whatever tweaks GoT will develop. No word still, on Randyll Tarly’s character and others that remain ambiguously cast.

Rygar:Ser Tahu,
The final scene of Sopranos is a beauty to watch.There is so much symbolism crammed into the final 5 mins or so. Like GURM, the scene also uses POV as a key aspect to tell the story.

Just for Rygar or anyone who saw the final Sopranos episode…..Do you think Meadow ever entered the restaurant? It was either going to be Meadow or a bunch of hit men. Sort of a fill-in-the-blank ending….but probably not a bunch of singing happy dwarves…

Could we speculate as to how much Ser Alliser will appear. I doubt he shot for that entire time, but this leads me to believe that some of his Jon antagonizing/LC election business will take place earlier/before the battle that this thread refers to.

I enjoyed that. Brienne is so distinctive and humorless, she’s made for parody.

Without news, we could turn this into a Princess and Queen discussion board. I read it. It was good. Nonstop dragon fights. One takeaway was to remind us that, yes, dragons are a major advantage over a human army.

It made me wish the modern ASOIAF world had double the number of them.

Nice list as always. The consideration of adding someone like Ron Perlman to the cast would be a blast for GRRM, and maybe us viewers as well. Not really certain where to pinpoint his role. I’m trying to remain calm about the Hyle Hunt character, as I really would like to see him included but also interested in whatever tweaks GoT will develop. No word still, on Randyll Tarly’s character and others that remain ambiguously cast.

To add ; Mark Gattis’ name has been implied for both characters Mace Tyrell and Randyll Tarly….. but not confirmed as any, officially. I wouldn’t be surprised if didn’t join the cast at all. WiC has listed actor Roger Ashton-Griffiths as Mace Tyrell. Is that one official ?

I’ve looked it up on the internet and the person who played Circe was Lucy Cohu who in the UK at least is someone who appears regularly on TV without being a household name. She was in the first series of “Ripper Street” – haven’t seen the second.

In more general terms – regarding the mention or lack of it of GoT in “best of” lists – well such lists are often weird but not necessarily wonderful. There was a talent show in the UK “I’d do Anything” where various unknown singers who could act, or vice versa, tried for the part of Nancy in an Andrew Lloyd-Webber revival of “Oliver”. The girl who won, Jodie was good and has been on stage and on TV but it is the one who came third, Samantha Barks, who is probably more widely known now thanks to having played the part of Eponine in “Les Mis”. GoT has its own momentum so I’m not too concerned about critics leaving it off their lists.

When I made my last post I was on the laptop and couldn’t post the links properly. Notwithstanding my earlier statement that “best of” lists are not the be all and end all, I thought folk might be interested in flicks and the city’s top ten which also names a few runners-up. The list is not made by the interviewer Jan but by one of her colleagues. Although it’s a British site, American TV (we do get a lot of “septic” TV over here) features extensively. I don’t think “Breaking Bad” fans would be disappointed http://flicksandthecity.com/top-tv-of-2013-10-6/http://flicksandthecity.com/top-tv-of-2013-5-1/

In my list one at least of the Scandinavian thrillers/chillers might have featured [as it’s relating to what’s been aired in the UK].

“Septic” is rhyming slang – “septic tank” = “Yank” and before I p_____ everybody off it’s meant as a joke not an insult – in my case anyway.

Hodor’s Bastard, MAJOR SOPRANOS SPOILER Yes. Meadow does and she in fact sees Tony get shot. Meadows delay with parallel parking sealed Tony’s death. Tony is shot from behind by the “man in the members only” jacket who was at the bar and then goes to the bathroom. With Meadow delayed, “Members only” has a clear line of fire from the bathroom to Tony, David Chase shows us this in slow motion when he walks to the bathroom. Meadow would have sat next to Tony and saved him once again. (Meadow saved him from dying during his coma earlier in the season).

The black out is Tony’s POV. Then final scene has five bells go off. One for each time someone walks in. After each bell, the camera shows Tony look up, then it cuts to his POV of who is coming in. The last time when the bell rings, it cuts to Tonys face and the audience expects to see Meadow come thru the door, however all we get is black, because at that moment Tony is instantly killed. There is nothing there. He doesn’t hear the gun go off. The song ends. There is just nothing. Because that’s what Tony sees.

The fact that “you never know it happened” meaning you dont know you got whacked, is covered a few times in the season. Most notably when Bobby and Tony talk in the boat and when Silvio is at the restaurant and his companion gets killed.

Just to clarify I’m not arguing that GoT SHOULDN’T be compared to other shows rather that some television critics who do enjoy the series may be snubbing GoT on their year end lists because they view GoT on that level. That’s all.

Ser Tahu: Rygar,
I’m still on the David Wenham bandwagon for Euron. He has the acting ability and could easily pass for Alfie Allen’s uncle

He doesn’t inspire enough menace to me, honestly, and I think he’s young (48) given the age of Patrick Malahide (69) and he’s rather youthful looking. If we’re looking to cast David Wenham somewhere in this story, perhaps he’s Arys Oakheart in a slightly expanded role. Jason Isaacs is only a couple of years older than Wenham, but he projects more menace and also skews a bit older; I think he’d work perfectly for either Euron or Victarion, honestly.

There’s some great scenes, but it’s probably the most fractured episode of the series so far. I believe there are 8 story lines in Prince of Winterfell. It makes it a hard episode to love

I’d agree with this. However, I do love “The Climb,” and the early Jon/Ygritte scenes are the reason why, as I find their banter so real and engaging, the kind of conversation two people who have just only recently started having sex with each other really do have, a moment you share with someone who has just become your lover — not a long-term relationship, not a flirtation. Like you’re sharing a secret. I think it’s a terrific episode.

Rygar,
Thx. Cool description of that very memorable ending. The scene left me with cold shivers. For some reason, I’ve always wondered if Meadow ever entered the restaurant, or if any member of the family survived.

Tony states a couple times in the show that family members (not mafia family) are not touched. I tend to think that only Tony was hit And we were spared having to see Carmela, Aj and Meadows anguish. Tony had many warning signs that his lifestyle would lead to his death. His only escape from his fate was his “real” family. But he always put them second. His coma dream mirrors what his life would be like without the mob. He would have died in the coma, in the dream at the house with Tony B urging him in, but Meadow called him back giving Tony one more chance to get out of the mafia. It wasn’t to be.

. also one of my favorite shots in the last scene is of Tony sitting down and we see the entire back of the diner. There are two pics of football players on either side of him(representing Tony’s HS days and what he could have been had his dad not taken him on that job). Also there is an old guy with a grey suit on sitting with cub scouts. He represents Phil Leotardo who commissioned Tony’s death prior to his own. The character even points his fingers like a gun to emphasize the symbolism. Also that damn orange cat (representing Adrianna) is on the back wall.

Hodor’s Bastard:Rygar,
Thx. Cool description of that very memorable ending. The scene left me with cold shivers. For some reason, I’ve always wondered if Meadow ever entered the restaurant, or if any member of the family survived.

It’s meant to be unclear, actually. Sure, maybe he was killed, but perhaps not.

Not true. David Chase has stated many times that what happened is all there for the viewer to deduce. He just won’t tell us directly. Not killing him defeats the purpose and point of the final season. All the signs are there.

Not true.David Chase has stated many times that what happened is all there for the viewer to deduce. He just won’t tell us directly.Not killing him defeats the purpose and point of the final season.All the signs are there.

Yes, Chase has said those things. But he hasn’t walked up and said he was killed. It doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen eventually, either. He’s said it’s all there, yes, but he’s said things along the lines of how their lives continue – that Meadow and AJ may not be doctors and lawyers, but they’ll be better people than their parents, et cetera.

There is an absurdity, meanwhile, of us discussing this with “spoiler text” given it’s a show that ended six-and-a-half goddamned years ago.

GreatJon of Slumber: It’s meant to be unclear, actually. Sure, maybe he was killed, but perhaps not.

[Sopranos and Breaking Bad Spoilers!]

I have to agree with Rygar that a sudden fade-to-black was not just for effect; there was a sudden end to something alive. If there was any implication of continuity, forgiveness and nonchalance for Tony after the story’s end, it would have felt cheap. He couldn’t get away with his lifestyle (a la American Psycho) and he did see it coming.

Likewise, if BB had ended at “Ozy”, that show would have felt cheap. Instead, WW needed to return to the scene of the crime, attempt to explain himself to Skylar again and satisfy his immensely contorted/distorted ego once again. He couldn’t get away with it either, not a chance (but he did save Jesse, again)….we saw that coming in the first scene of S1 Ep1.

It is always fun to (compare these two awesome dramas). Although I don’t agree with the final assessment that Sopranos was superior, the two shows are worth comparing on many levels.

ah but it wasn’t a fade. It was a fast cut to a black scene. No music. Instantaneous Nothingness. Which is what would happen from your POV if you died instantly from a bullet to the head. You dont hear the shot and you dont get to finish the Journey tune. ;)

In fact Chase wanted no credits. Just that blackness until the HBO logo appears as it does normally at the end of the credits. HBO didn’t go for that.

Hey I agree with you. even though i havent watched either one of those but I think GoT is the best show on television right now. I was just stating there reasoning. Give me GoT and Adventure Time and im good for days

How odd…. and we’ve been down this road before, with my query. WiC here still has his role as uncertain, and I did a Bing/ Info.Com search just yesterday with both Mace and Randyll Tarly listed as possible roles for this actor. However, Game of Thrones
Wiki does confirm what you write, that Gattis is portraying Tycho Nestoris. I recall the discussion some months ago, I guess I forgot it was confirmed. Anyways, I was more interested in whom the role Randyll Tarly would go to. Perhaps he will be omitted. Thinking of Hyle Hunt compelled me to ponder some unfilled cast assignment or those already named long ago. Mace Tyrell’s character was confirmed for actor Robert Ashton-Griffiths, an old ” Torchwood” alum. That one too, rings a bell. I suppose I
was absent around the time the WiC discussion took place, and dismissed it later when I found out. He rather reminds me of lord Manderly’s make believe brother, at least visually. Sorry for the memory lapse. The only characters I want named are Tarly
and Val/ Dalla, for the moment. While some are claiming that Irish actress, Jane McGrath is portraying Val, HBO -Go and WiC are reporting her only as a Wildling. I wouldn’t be surprised if Val or Dalla’s role were marginalized in favour of Gilly and Sam’s relationship onscreen.

Hodor’s Bastard: Likewise, if BB had ended at “Ozy”, that show would have felt cheap. Instead, WW needed to return to the scene of the crime, attempt to explain himself to Skylar again and satisfy his immensely contorted/distorted ego once again. He couldn’t get away with it either, not a chance (but he did save Jesse, again)….we saw that coming in the first scene of S1 Ep1.

I agree with you , Breaking Bad’s Felina episode was necessary and succinct. I watched the episode again last night, during AMC’s BB marathon . Walter White was only one of many in a cast besot with flawed human personalities( with exception of Walt Jr and toddler Holly ), but he definitely came full circle with his fate. In many ways I admired his intelligence, as I did Gustavo Fring. But yeah…. undeniable brilliant criminal type. After reviewing many details missed from earlier airings, I came to an conclusion of liking all of the major players, less and less. I don’t have a warm and fuzzy place place in my heart for Jesse either.Even less for Hank. Overall, I ‘m grateful that Vince Gilligan gave some dignity to Skylar’s character ( not playing the wounded-victim type ), lending more impact.

Much like Stephen Colbert’s PAC, commonly known as ” Making a Better Tomorrow, Tomorrow “. It’s given an undue amount of credit for doing nothing. LOL !

The convenient spoiler tag does help soothe the nerves of most unsullied. I respect
that ( as do you ). With initial visits here, I withheld stating much of my perspectives
simply because I wasn’t aware of the proper way to utilize the spoiler key. Someone
answered my how-to question and I’ve been on a roll ever since ( :

I’ll leave you with a warning though, be careful about bandying about that “o” word,
House Atreides is in the house.

I’m off to conquer something, and add spice to my tea . Have a good evening .

Regarding Jason Isaacs, he was very good in “Case Histories” (British miniseries) in early 2013. Also very good was his onscreen daughter played by a young Scots lass called Millie Innes – she got the independent “stroppy” teenager vibe very well. Though I think most of the feisty young females have been cast – and she is too pale to pass as the daughter of the characters played by Pedro Pascal and Indira Varma really. Though I do know a lady who is mixed-race and her daughter is very blonde and blue-eyed but then the Dad was white.

I loved Cox’s Irulan even though her role was significantly expanded for the Dune and Children of Dune Mini Series. She was the anchor of those miniseries. I read she married the actor who portrayed Paul Atreides in real life but what has she really done since?

Hopefully I can get this right with the spoiler thing, I’ve read the books so many times I’d bet some cash on who Jon Snows mother is. Anyway I’ve got some questions for everyone on here. Ok so here come the spoilers for the non readers So season 4 I would love some opinions. So here are my questions. Do you think TYL will die at the end of the season? Do you think AS will be on the ship to B? Do you think the halfman will be shipped off in a crate? So many more questions… Just want to know other fans takes. Let me look into your brain.

That’s a good question, but sadly the answer to this and the other very anticipated
scenes, are not so easy to answer. As AS’s expected journey to B should take place
soon, as paced from the books, onscreen events need to be tidied up a bit. There’s
a lot to cover, beyond the RW scenes, and there’s new developments ( and characters ) popping up all over the place. Readers tolerate the back and forth pace quite easily,but incongruent events play out differently onscreen. Plus, with adapted events of ADWD mixed in, it’s anyone’s guess. While I may not rule out simply placing AS there, for the time being, and for a gradual enveloping story later, it’s still difficult to predict exactly where the production will focus. On the other hand, some folks here are better at speculating than others.

Ser Tahu and several others here, have come up with really well thought out outlines
that may prove likely. If you get a chance, you may want to peruse some of these by
searching archived posts( tab at top of page ), highlighted from the Speculation or
related sections. Some great dialogue has taken place by those responding to them.