Martin McGuinness at Windsor Castle. What an odious sight

Former IRA commander Martin McGuinness attended a banquet at Windsor Castle to mark the visit of President Michael D. Higgins of Ireland. (Image: Getty)

I know that the official line is delight at the ‘progress’ allegedly represented by the presence of Martin McGuinness, in white tie and tails, standing to toast the Queen’s health at a banquet in Windsor Castle. But what an odious sight.

Firstly because the idea that this constitutes some important step is all post-hoc prevarication. The steps that Martin McGuinness has taken in the last ten years were all open to him forty years ago. But he chose to turn them down then and pursue the IRA’s path of violence and murder. Pursuing that path should have caused him the worst imaginable problems; instead it has brought him only rewards.

You still sometimes hear people say – David Cameron, for instance, is good at this tune – that ‘violence never pays’. On the contrary, the career of Martin McGuinness shows that violence pays very well. It was the peaceful Republicans who McGuinness managed to push aside in his ambitious rise. It was the non-violent and anti-violent members of the Catholic communities who he managed to whizz past in his race to the top of what turned out to be the British Establishment.

It makes one wonder where people like Michael Adebolajo went wrong. Perhaps if the killers of Lee Rigby had not just killed one British soldier but instead lead an organisation that killed hundreds might they too be invited to a banquet in Windsor castle in the years to come?

Incidentally, I see that McGuinness has tweeted his regrets and condolences over the death of Peaches Geldof, a death which he had nothing to do with. Will the day ever come when McGuinness comes clean and tells of his regret for the hundreds of lives – young and old – that he and the IRA brought to the cruellest ends imaginable?

Bishop Daly was quoted as describing the atrocity as “the work of Satan.” Mr McGuinness responded: “I don’t agree with that view.”

Asked if it was “anything other than cold-blooded murder”, he hedged, saying: “Obviously, people will have their own interpretations of that.”

The man is utter scum.

formonitoring

“Perhaps if the killers of Lee Rigby had not just killed one British soldier but instead lead an organisation that killed hundreds might they too be invited to a banquet in Windsor castle in the years to come?”

Of course they would. The Irgun and Lehi bombed, knifed, tortured and executed hundreds of British soldiers and civilians (and thousands of Arabs) in their pursuit of a quickly ethnically cleansed space for the Israeli state.

Indeed in 1943, Yitzhak Shamir, leader of the Lehi, made contact with the Nazis, offered to fight the British for them, if they would supply arms.

Likud is the successor of these groups.

And you l-o-o-o-o-o-ve them.

cartimandua

More Jews were “cleansed” from Arab countries than chose to move from Palestine. The lands and wealth taken from those Jews was worth a lot more than any losses by Palestinians.

He stood in charge of torture groups who did horrendous things to people, including burning and branding and making them drink piss.
It all came out on a documentary programme some fifteen years back.
When confronted he denied it- of course.
Well, he would – wouldnt he?

Yet many of the speakers and witnesses (especially those who suffered), seemed quite ready to testify. So what happened?

insider.ie

Oh get over it. If dyed-in-the-wool Unionists like Ian Paisley and Peter Robinson can dine with, and meet with, Martin McGuinness, then why the fuss when the Queen does the same. I’m no fan of Sinn Féin but it’s about time these encounters were normalised!

SimonToo

Queen Elizabeth has the heart and stomach of a king which, given what her ministers foist on her, is most fortunate.

Robert Feneron

I often wonder what the family of IRA hunger strikers and others who died on “active service” make of Adams and McGuinness’s elevated status? What did they die for? To allow their leaders to wear the baubles of office in a UK province? United Ireland anyone?

patto69

British policy in Ireland was responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths throughout the centuries. It is distasteful to see Martin Mc Guinness at events like this but if we are to have a proper relationship develop between the peoples of these islands then they are a necessary evil. So fair play to him.

Right-Minded

Yet another step in the rapid decline of a former proud nation. Remember when our governing elite used to have principles and a strong sense of direction for the country. I’m not even that bothered with the dissident rebels in NI, we’ve got way bigger issues Douglas, and there’s no hope of repairing or reversing the embarrassing farce our country now resembles.

Pol O Farrell

I support Douglas Murray on most issues but on Ireland he is totally wrong.

Kennybhoy

“Yet another step in the rapid decline of a former proud nation. Remember when our governing elite used to have principles and a strong sense of direction for the country.”

You mean like Winston Churchill dealing with Michael Collins?

John O Callaghan

For someone who is supposed to be an informed commentator your article is remarkably simplistic and shallow. As a Scot I would have expected you to be aware of a few facts.

The troubles in Northern Ireland are the direct result of a land grab by Scottish Presbyterians in the 17th century who blocked the independence of the 6 counties in 1922. This was despite the fact that 80% of Ireland voted for independence and Sinn Fein in 1918 after a few centuries of British rule during which a million people starved in the 1840′s.

The Northern protestants then ran an apartheid state where Catholics were treated like dirt until the 1960′s when the Taigs decided they had enough and tried peacefully and democratically to assert their basic rights., They were then attacked by loyalist thugs and the British army. They had no other option but to resort to violence.

It is sickening to have to listen to Brits moralise about violence when they ran an empire which was based on violence, cynical manipulation and exploitation. Just who do you think you are lecturing the rest of us?.

All of this murder and mayhem could have been prevented if London had run the 6 counties properly and protected the basic rights of the Catholic minority.

Lastly if the British army stayed at home in Britain protecting the Realm instead of fecking around the world on disastrous, amateurish escapades like Iraq you wouldn’t have problems with Islamic terrorists.

Why don’t you just stay at home and sort out your own problems?

logdon

‘Why don’t you just stay at home and sort out your own problems’?

In which case why don’t you instead of being a total waste of space on an English site?

John O Callaghan

Fine.

You Brits get out of Ireland and I would be quite happy not to have to engage with you.

Have a nice day

logdon

You missed out the begorrah at the end.

SonOfSands

Do remember that last nights events gave us a brief glimpse of the future. When Ireland as one nation sits equally at the table with Britain. Martin was elected by the people of the North of Ireland as our joint First Minister. Who, we the Irish people choose to represent us, is no longer any of Britain’s concern. Last night the British establishment recognized that the heroes of the IRA were a legitimate Army without whose bravery and resolute determination the people of the North would still be suffering under a fascist ultra-protestant state, armed and funded by Britain. Soon we will have our 32 county Republic and relations between our two nations will finally be at peace. Well done Marty!

GUBU

Indeed.

Of course, one could argue that Mr McGuinness has moved from trying to end British rule in Northern Ireland to administering it instead.

Well done Marty!

SonOfSands

Exactly! Just like Dev did in the south and it didn’t take very long before the apron strings were cut. One more step along the road to freedom. Your Queen can see it. Your Prime Minister sees it. When will you?

La Fold

Our queen does what shes told and Our prime minister is a morally and ideologically bankrupt chinless wonder.

SonOfSands

That’s why we won the war!

logdon

I believe that the SAS won it or you’d still be hugging an armalite.

SonOfSands

Really? I think you’ll find that the war was won in 1990s when the IRA hit the most sensitive and powerful area in the whole of the UK – The city of London.

logdon

So killing innocent civilians is considered ‘won’.

Even then it didn’t work.

You lost. End of story.

Kennybhoy

You lost. Get over it.

Kennybhoy

Spot on.

CraigStrachan

Strictly speaking, Martin was elected Deputy First Minister by the (partitionist) Stormont Assembly.

He did offer himself for a directly-elected office down south, and didn’t do too well, as I recall.

Kennybhoy

Dream on loon…

phil

Is there any reliable indication as to how the ROI would vote if asked if they wanted to assimilate NI?

Frank

Was scumbag Peter Hain at the Windsor Castle dinner?

CraigStrachan

Yes, but there are those persistent rumours that McGuinness was a security service mole at the top of the IRA from quite early on. The sight of him in white tie at a Windsor banquet toasting the Queen probably won’t do much to dispel them.

Pootles

I suppose there is a chance that he’s signed his own death warrant with some of the more unreconstructed of his colleagues – I can’t imagine toasting HM will have gone down too well in certain quarters. We can hope so.

SonOfSands

advocating murder?

Pootles

No, remembering what happened to people like Erskine Childers, or, on the other Republican side, Michael Collins.

SonOfSands

No it’s seem you were hoping for the RIRA to murder Martin. Now unlike the 1920′s there are laws against encouraging such acts in Britain. You would be wise to be very careful. Many a fool has been arrested by the PSNI for such comments in recent months.

Pootles

Don’t be daft. My point was that given the long history of Republican fraticide (remember all the intra-INLA killings?), it wouldn’t surprise me (or bother me) if McGuinness hasn’t done something very dangerous indeed – just as Collins said, on signing the Treaty, that he had ‘signed my own death warrant’.

SonOfSands

“we can hope so” – certainly sounds like you are encouraging such an act. You are hoping he gets murdered? That is a crime in this country. Trust me the PSNI wouldn’t make such a distinction as as been proven by the arrest of many a loyalist idiot in recent months.

Pootles

My dear boy, or should that be, bhoy, I also hope for nice Christmas presents. Odd to see a Republican so keen on the powers of the British State, in the form of the PSNI.

SonOfSands

That’s the thing now friend. I’m sure your not a frequent visitor to the North of Ireland and may have missed a few recent developments. We run the PSNI now. We run government here. In 2 years time we will be in power in the South too. There is a certain coldness in comparing the hope of nice Christmas presents to hoping someone gets murdered.

Pootles

Really? I thought the First Minister was of a different view. As for ‘a certain coldness’, that is a good phrase for the sensation that comes over one when contemplating the deeds of your friend ‘Marty’. I see, also that you have just popped up on Disqus – are you one of those Trolls?

SonOfSands

You do realize that Martin is the Joint First Minister? And soon to be leader of the largest single party in the North? If being shocked at seeing someone in 2014 advocate the murder of a senior politician makes me a troll, so be it. We all have to start some time…..

Pootles

‘Shocked’ ? How could a supporter of the IRA be shocked?

SonOfSands

I see! So you don’t think of Irish republicans as human beings capable of emotion? Possibly you consider us sub-human? You wouldn’t be the first in Britain to think that of the Irish. Have you ever thought of joining the Orange Order? They would love to have a chap such as yourself.

Pootles

Ah, you make a mistake, I have an Irish name, and my father was brought up by the Christian Brothers; although ‘beaten up’ might be a more accurate description.

SonOfSands

And that has what relevance exactly? Many people have Irish names and it doesn’t mean they can’t have a slightly racist attitude towards the Irish people. Slan.

Pootles

The relevance being that if I thought the Irish were ‘sub-human’ then I would be merely seeing my own father and me, and my sons, as the same. Which I don’t.

SonOfSands

I’m most relieved. Then embrace your Irish heritage and hope for a unification of our people, not murder. Good evening to you. Slan.

Pootles

My position has always been that it is up to all the Irish in Ireland (that is the island of Ireland) to sort out their issues, and to come to an agreement. The terrible irony is that the way things are going in the EU, the whole question of national borders will become totally redundant in the next few decades. On the murder front – I don’t like killers, whether they be ‘big’ ones like Tony Blair who order others to kill and maim, or ‘small’ ones, like McGuinness, who do it themselves. My, it’s a wicked world, and the older I get the more I feel that the stylities had the right answer. And, now, good evening to you, and I’m away to my ‘isle in the water’ – ie., my suburban garden.

Colonel Mustard

“So you don’t think of Irish republicans as human beings capable of emotion?”

Too much emotion I would have said. When you have Ireland united and under your complete control I wonder what outlet all that emotion will have to find then.

Kennybhoy

Only one bhoy hereabouts Maister P!

Kennybhoy

“…McGuinness hasn’t done something very dangerous indeed…”

Or very brave…?

La Fold

Ill say it then, I wont miss a single nights sleep if Martin gets slotted.

topper34878

This is the second Spectator post I’ve seen of yours tonight. This was as sound as the last. Keep them coming.

WinterMonarch

It is indeed odious. However, I am inclined to agree with the stance Margaret Thatcher had on the possibility that Russia could have joined NATO, in that there is a certain and wonderful kind of irony in bringing in you old enemy – in this case having to toast the Queen, listen to the anthem etc. (Of course, the idea of allowing Russia to join NATO would have been stupid, as Thatcher said, but the irony would still be hilarious…)

john

It is an odious sight. Windsor is ours not Mrs Windsor’s and the royals should be booted out. Like him or loathe him, Martin McGuinness is a real political figure – the Windsors are not.

logdon

Has Prince Phillip ever knee-capped anybody?

john

No idea. He’s certainly held the British citizenry to ransom for 60+ years.

logdon

Not me sunshine.

john

From the chest full of fruit salad he sports on every occasion, he must have bayoneted a few thousand fuzzy-wuzzies.

logdon

Is that wishful thinking? Sound like it.

john

O come on – you can do better than that.

logdon

The utter ludicrousness of your statement deserves no more.

Kennybhoy

Prince Phillip was an officer in the RN who saw extensive active service during World war II.

GUBU

Was Agent J118 at this event, by any chance?

CraigStrachan

Ha, right. All things considered, he’d probably rather be invited to Balmoral, being a keen Fisherman.

Frank

Are you referring to the supposition that Britain had a tout at the top of the PIRA? If so, was it Martin or Jerry?

CraigStrachan

Yes and yes.

Frank

Thank you.

GUBU

Perhaps that’s what he’s angling for…

freddiethegreat

On the contrary, the career of Martin McGuinness shows that violence pays very well.
Like Mandela – even worse than McGuinness.

Wessex Man

Two wrongs don’t make a right, I look forward in this age of forgiveness to the closure of the ‘Bloody Sunday’ farce!

http://www.drivebyplanet.com/ j_600

Yeah it does… Brits should know. Centuries of imperial exploitation of everything within sailing distance is part of their legacy. Their small island wouldn’t have amounted to much without organized criminality on a grand scale – including their disgusting campaigns of brutality in Ireland. It makes these complaints and nostrums re Martin McGuinness seem myopic beyond belief.

My only argument with Marty on this little outing is that he bothered to turn up.

Bluesman_1

Very well said citizen. This captain of murderers and gangsters is odious beyond belief.

Martin Adamson

To us, and to all normal people, of course it is. This is our cultural/political elites’ way of rubbing our noses in it. It’s a way to proclaim their own imagined moral superiority at our expense.