betiko wrote:By the way, anybody thinks that westeros kind of look like a map of britain (reverted in the bottom mid-part)? starks would be scotts, greyjoys the isle of Man, martell cornwall, tyrell+lanister+tully+arryn england; baratheon+targaryen welsh...

The Wall=Hadrian's wall...yeah it's obviously based off of England. The land across the sea I'm not sure is supposed to be Ireland or the mainland Europe. I used to have that more or less figured out but I've forgotten. I want to say it was the mainland...

Of course if the wall is Hadrian's wall than it would be more accurate to say that the Starks are more North England and the Wildlings are the Scotts.

Iliad wrote:The upside of calling everyone scum and making 1000 predictions is that statistically you should get a few right.

betiko wrote:By the way, anybody thinks that westeros kind of look like a map of britain (reverted in the bottom mid-part)? starks would be scotts, greyjoys the isle of Man, martell cornwall, tyrell+lanister+tully+arryn england; baratheon+targaryen welsh...

The Wall=Hadrian's wall...yeah it's obviously based off of England. The land across the sea I'm not sure is supposed to be Ireland or the mainland Europe. I used to have that more or less figured out but I've forgotten. I want to say it was the mainland...

Of course if the wall is Hadrian's wall than it would be more accurate to say that the Starks are more North England and the Wildlings are the Scotts.

Pretty much, also, almost everyone has a British accent.

Last edited by Symmetry on Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

aage wrote:Aegon named his empire after the seven kingdoms that he subdued: the Iron Islands (currently Greyjoy) which was one kingdom with the riverlands (Tully), the Northlands (Stark), the Vale (Arryn), the Westerlands (Lannister), the Reach (Tyrell), the Stormlands (Baratheon) and Dorne (Martell) which was added later: when the Targaryens conquered "the seven kingdoms", they failed to conquer Dorne. Freys used to be bannermen to Riverrun. Think of them as Boltons, or Karstarks.

here's what they say on wiki though:

<<img>>

The Seven Kingdoms, as they stood after unification by Aegon and before Robert's Rebellion From top-left to bottom-right: The North, Iron Islands, Riverlands, Vale, The Westerlands, Crownlands, The Reach, Stormlands, Dorne

I kind of thought that the freys were just tully bannermen but even with your explanation (riverlands+iron islands being 1 single kingdom originally) the crownsland isn't counted?

those martel intrigue me really... after 1/3rd of the third season that they haven't even been mentioned once by any character!

King's Landing didn't exist before the Targaryens landed, and they never conquered their own "kingdom" from one specific king. Hence it's not counted. I suspect they just took those lands from the River, Storm and Reach kingdoms. They unified the seven existing kingdoms into one.

I'm not sure if any Martells have been mentioned. Maybe Elia, but that'd be a long shot. Plus she's dead.

As a note on the Greyjoys, they were actually installed as "wardens" of some kind on the Iron Islands after Harren the Black was killed (the king of the Islands/Riverlands), so it was already called the Seven Kingdoms before the Greyjoys ever crowned themselves.

aage wrote:Aegon named his empire after the seven kingdoms that he subdued: the Iron Islands (currently Greyjoy) which was one kingdom with the riverlands (Tully), the Northlands (Stark), the Vale (Arryn), the Westerlands (Lannister), the Reach (Tyrell), the Stormlands (Baratheon) and Dorne (Martell) which was added later: when the Targaryens conquered "the seven kingdoms", they failed to conquer Dorne. Freys used to be bannermen to Riverrun. Think of them as Boltons, or Karstarks.

They didn't fail. Dorne just submitted before major conflict broke out because they knew resistance was futile in the face of dragons.

woot woot! Daenerys for president! But she's been kicking ass all the show pretty much, a hell of a woman. Who said she wasn't smoking hot too by the way???

sad to hear that the story loses steam after book 3 cause it's the best show ever so far IMO.

I really wonder why Craster could get away with so many things in the eyes of the night's watch leader. Did he bring some sort of ballance with the night walkers giving away so many sons? I'm pretty sure they did an awful mistake by killing him...

who the hell is this guys with Theon and what is he up to seriously... i don't see any logic in what he did other than simple cruelty... or did he just wanted to see who Theon felt closer to deeply in his heart, greyjoys or starks? "winter is comming" was probably a subliminal message to make him say out loud that deep inside he was closer to starks than to greyjoys...

here's a theory. How can Tyrion win influence? Littlefinger is going to leave the city and no one will be there to rule his whorehouse. His squire with his massive cock would be perfect for the job. The whorehouse was littlefinger's number one source of information. My guess is that this can be used in tyrion's advantage in the future (otherwise the squire story makes no sense).

One thing I didn't get: who is the Arryn supposed to marry littlefinger? is it John Arryn's widow (Kathrin's sister) or is it someone else?

Maergery with sansa: makes sense. If her brother marries Sansa she'll get the key to the north. She needs Robb dead too. Did Lord Varyn see that comming for the Tyrells as well? Tis guy is really smart, and by talking to grandma Tyrell he might be suggesting that he knows what they are doing talking to sansa like that... And he's trying to stop Littlefinger in order to gain Tyrell favours (he probably sees how much influence the Tyrells are about to get in king's landing).

betiko wrote:woot woot! Daenerys for president! But she's been kicking ass all the show pretty much, a hell of a woman. Who said she wasn't smoking hot too by the way???

She is hot, isn't she?

betiko wrote:sad to hear that the story loses steam after book 3 cause it's the best show ever so far IMO.

What? Why would you say that? You haven't read the books yourself, have you? You should probably do so and make up your own mind.

betiko wrote:I really wonder why Craster could get away with so many things in the eyes of the night's watch leader. Did he bring some sort of ballance with the night walkers giving away so many sons? I'm pretty sure they did an awful mistake by killing him...

Oh, the nightwatch that mutinied will get there's soon enough....and it won't be pretty lemme tell ya!

betiko wrote:who the hell is this guys with Theon and what is he up to seriously... i don't see any logic in what he did other than simple cruelty... or did he just wanted to see who Theon felt closer to deeply in his heart, greyjoys or starks? "winter is comming" was probably a subliminal message to make him say out loud that deep inside he was closer to starks than to greyjoys...

I'm pretty sure that guy is really Ramsay Snow/Bolton. The sadistic and insane bastard son of Roose Bolton. He likes to play games and Theon is his favorite toy. We'll see soon enough I'd imagine. Remember when he killed the men chasing Theon? He was standing in front of the last guy alive about to put an arrow in his head and the dying guy said- "You Little Bastard" just before he took an arrow to the forehead. Ramsay is a bastard known as "The Bastard of Dreadfort".

betiko wrote:here's a theory. How can Tyrion win influence? Littlefinger is going to leave the city and no one will be there to rule his whorehouse. His squire with his massive cock would be perfect for the job. The whorehouse was littlefinger's number one source of information. My guess is that this can be used in tyrion's advantage in the future (otherwise the squire story makes no sense).

Oh, Tyrion will have problems big time soon enough. Littlefinger doesn't care about the whorehouses, they are merely a stepping stone to what he really wants. I'll let you learn for yourself what that is as the show progresses. Indeed, Varys was right, Littlefinger is a very dangerous man.

betiko wrote:One thing I didn't get: who is the Arryn supposed to marry littlefinger? is it John Arryn's widow (Kathrin's sister) or is it someone else?

Kathrin's sister, the crazy bitch who was still letting her 10 year old son suck her tits and tried to have the imp thrown out the moondoor. There is quite a bit of back story between her and Littlefinger and in fact it was her and Littlefinger who truly started all this off in the first place. Your questions will be answered soon enough I think.

betiko wrote:Maergery with sansa: makes sense. If her brother marries Sansa she'll get the key to the north. She needs Robb dead too. Did Lord Varyn see that comming for the Tyrells as well? Tis guy is really smart, and by talking to grandma Tyrell he might be suggesting that he knows what they are doing talking to sansa like that... And he's trying to stop Littlefinger in order to gain Tyrell favours (he probably sees how much influence the Tyrells are about to get in king's landing).

Alas, The Tyrell's plans for Sansa fall quite short in the end. The Tyrell's have no evil plans for Sansa that I am aware of, certainly not to the degree of Cerci's plans. Lets just say that Sansa is not destined to marry Loras. Wait till you find out who she ends up marrying! Hahahahahahah!

Seriously. No one read patches' post if you want to avoid several major spoilers.

betiko wrote:I really wonder why Craster could get away with so many things in the eyes of the night's watch leader. Did he bring some sort of ballance with the night walkers giving away so many sons? I'm pretty sure they did an awful mistake by killing him...

There are two main reasons Mormont let Crastor get away with being such a "bastard" for so long. The first is that he is not part of the realm (since he is beyond the wall) and thus not subject to the same laws. The second and most important reason is that, while he is a complete prick and a terrible person, his house is the only safe place for the Night's Watch north of the wall. They need his protection for their ranger patrols. These are things that the Commander realizes that the others don't.

betiko wrote:One thing I didn't get: who is the Arryn supposed to marry littlefinger? is it John Arryn's widow (Kathrin's sister) or is it someone else?

Yes, Jon Arryn's widow. The one we met in season 1 with her preteen son still breastfeeding. Littlefinger has a history with the Tully sisters.

the thing about crastor is that he is 1 man and they are at least a dozen each time they go there. he pushes really really far the banter with them and the disrespect. what happened is no surprise, he had been crossing the line way too far and he was basically letting them die of starvation. But mormont seriously?? that's a wise and fair man, even if some people didn't agree to assasinate him doesn't make too much sense. Mormont was an idiot too keeping such a low profile with crastor if the only reasons are the ones you gave. And they don't know who his son is friends with, I don't think he will be very happy to learn that lol. Wondering what he will think the day he meets john snow with his father's sword by the way..

betiko wrote:the thing about crastor is that he is 1 man and they are at least a dozen each time they go there. he pushes really really far the banter with them and the disrespect. what happened is no surprise, he had been crossing the line way too far and he was basically letting them die of starvation.

A thing to add to Bones' reply is that a big theme in the book in the characters' observation of the sovereignty of a persons' home. The characters generally respect the values that are practiced under a roof, and this plays a big part in the upcoming books. Especially with an organization like the Night's Watch who strictly observe tradition.

betiko wrote:the thing about crastor is that he is 1 man and they are at least a dozen each time they go there. he pushes really really far the banter with them and the disrespect. what happened is no surprise, he had been crossing the line way too far and he was basically letting them die of starvation.

A thing to add to Bones' reply is that a big theme in the book in the characters' observation of the sovereignty of a persons' home. The characters generally respect the values that are practiced under a roof, and this plays a big part in the upcoming books. Especially with an organization like the Night's Watch who strictly observe tradition.

-TG

I'm sure this guy doesn't observes the practices and values under any roof in westeros!!!

I remember some speed bump in the middle of the series, but afterward it got awesome again.

"Running out of steam" reminds me of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series. The author mentioned his disdain for writing books, and you can see it after every book. In the final book, he was just throwing crap together to see what sticks.

betiko wrote:By the way, anybody thinks that westeros kind of look like a map of britain (reverted in the bottom mid-part)? starks would be scotts, greyjoys the isle of Man, martell cornwall, tyrell+lanister+tully+arryn england; baratheon+targaryen welsh...

The Wall=Hadrian's wall...yeah it's obviously based off of England. The land across the sea I'm not sure is supposed to be Ireland or the mainland Europe. I used to have that more or less figured out but I've forgotten. I want to say it was the mainland...

Of course if the wall is Hadrian's wall than it would be more accurate to say that the Starks are more North England and the Wildlings are the Scotts.

At least the first book is based off the War of the Roses, so it kinda makes sense that it should look a little like Britain.

The Wall=Hadrian's wall...yeah it's obviously based off of England. The land across the sea I'm not sure is supposed to be Ireland or the mainland Europe. I used to have that more or less figured out but I've forgotten. I want to say it was the mainland...

How was it not obvious she was going to order the army to attack the slavers?I mean seriously, she repeatedly showed that she had nothing but contempt for the slavers. The fact that the army is perfectly obedient was one of the main selling points. And then she offers them a dragon in exchange for ALL the armed soldiers in the city. C'mon. seriously now. How stupid does the slaver have to be to not see that coming (not to mention her friends trying to stop here).Also that army is supposedly "men who have been stripped of all questions", men who have been brutally trained their whole lives to be obedient tools to do anything they are commanded to do without hesitation even take their own lives. And all it takes to turn them into free men is one rousing speech? Gimme a fuckin' break.

On the other hand, all the other storylines are excellent. Especially liked the stuff beyond the wall. Didn't see it coming but it makes sense in retrospect.

How was it not obvious she was going to order the army to attack the slavers?I mean seriously, she repeatedly showed that she had nothing but contempt for the slavers. The fact that the army is perfectly obedient was one of the main selling points. And then she offers them a dragon in exchange for ALL the armed soldiers in the city. C'mon. seriously now. How stupid does the slaver have to be to not see that coming (not to mention her friends trying to stop here).Also that army is supposedly "men who have been stripped of all questions", men who have been brutally trained their whole lives to be obedient tools to do anything they are commanded to do without hesitation even take their own lives. And all it takes to turn them into free men is one rousing speech? Gimme a fuckin' break.

On the other hand, all the other storylines are excellent. Especially liked the stuff beyond the wall. Didn't see it coming but it makes sense in retrospect.

I generally agree, but imagine if someone turned up in Confederate America with three nukes, offering to trade one for all the slaves.

You say that it should have been obvious to the slaver but it was obvious from his attitude that he thought she was nothing more than an idiot. The thought that she was even smart enough to cross him like that, let alone actually do it, probably never crossed his mind. I dont think the slaves truly feel free. I think thats gonna continue to come up.

Iliad wrote:The upside of calling everyone scum and making 1000 predictions is that statistically you should get a few right.

How was it not obvious she was going to order the army to attack the slavers?I mean seriously, she repeatedly showed that she had nothing but contempt for the slavers. The fact that the army is perfectly obedient was one of the main selling points. And then she offers them a dragon in exchange for ALL the armed soldiers in the city. C'mon. seriously now. How stupid does the slaver have to be to not see that coming (not to mention her friends trying to stop here).Also that army is supposedly "men who have been stripped of all questions", men who have been brutally trained their whole lives to be obedient tools to do anything they are commanded to do without hesitation even take their own lives. And all it takes to turn them into free men is one rousing speech? Gimme a fuckin' break.

On the other hand, all the other storylines are excellent. Especially liked the stuff beyond the wall. Didn't see it coming but it makes sense in retrospect.

I always thought that while reading the books. I've a feeling that, unless Martin totally flips and, like, kills her off or something, she'll pretty much conquer all of Westeros in the end. It seems kinda obvious with what you pointed out. She 1) has dragons, 2) has righteousness (kills the slavers, spares the women from rape, etc.), and 3) has a badass army now. It seems like Martin is really grooming this character to conquer the anarchy of Westeros, which is what the first Targaryens did.

wow cool episode. tyrion and sansa, cersei and loras? huh, didn't see that one comming!

I have to agree with haggis about the slavers, too stupid to be true. I still think that the night's watch with craster made little sense too.

John snow... gosh, sorry about his virginity! lol. Anyway, all the main "good" characters from the nightwatch are dead or have fleed, so I guess no one cares if he betrays them.

Jaimie: didn't expect that story. I thought the lanisters had it all plotted from the start when they first reached king's landing. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up with brennof tarth, but I've been saying it all along.

I have to say I'm enjoying this season. There's a lot of political intrigue going on and things are starting to take shape. I'm interested to see how Robb Stark fares in taking Casterly Rock from The Lannisters (and what Tywin might do if he succeeds). This psychopath who is torturing Theon also seems interesting and it seems like The Lord of Light's (I'm sure I'm not the only one who has caught the Lucifer parallel by the way) influence is spreading.

Jaime's confession took me by surprise. I suppose it's possible that some parts may have been embellished or altered and I always felt he was less of a straight up evil bastard as he some times appears but I was as others were under the impression that his actions had been predetermined by Tywin and he was following through on orders.

I also wonder how Tywin will react when he finds out that Jaime's sword hand was cut off. At least from the way he talks to Tyrion and Cersei, Jaime seems to be the only child Tywin considers worthy of being called a Lannister. All in all though he seems to be a fairly logical thinker. I mean arranging Cersei and Tyrion to marry Loris and Sansa respectively was a smart move. I suppose most likely, he won't let his emotions get the better of him, even if it would be fun to watch him act on emotion for once (He's had emotional moments, plenty of them but he's never let them overwhelm the logical side of his thought process).

OH I also like the elderly Tyrell lady. She's got that I don't take BS from anyone and I don't care who hears what I think attitude going for her.

I'll say again. I can buy the slavers not expecting her to betray them. I think people tend to forget that they have the background knowledge about Daenerys' character and both sides of the translation going for them and it's easier to see what's unfolding from that perspective. The slaver should have seen it coming yes. Daenerys had expressed concern over how the slaves were treated when they first met but a few things were made quite clear about the head slaver. He was quite greedy and he had absolutely no respect for Daenerys. He treated her like an ignorant, timid woman because he thought she was one. Blinded by greed and not expecting her to be smart or daring enough to act on a plan to double cross him, I can see how he was caught off guard when it actually happened. I will say that I was surprised by how easily she pulled it off. As far as the suddenly freed slaves, I think that's going to continue to have impact. I don't think you'll see an army that acts like they are free and I think the mentality of being a slave is still very present.

I'll agree on the Craster subplot. I realize tensions were high for them but the mutiny did seem to happen awfully quickly.

Oh and it was about time Jon Snow got laid.

Iliad wrote:The upside of calling everyone scum and making 1000 predictions is that statistically you should get a few right.