I'm seeing a lot of complaints on facebook relative to taxes. The whole thing is reprehensible and embarrassing. It's mindblowing to me that Congress can shut down the entire workings of the government but still receive their paychecks in good conscience. Military friends of mine are out in the cold with no support from Uncle Sam, and/or their promised educational benefits have been suspended until further notice. Federal departments are closed, but we continue paying taxes? No thank you. I expect my taxes to be pro-rated for every day the government does nothing (so every day, right?).

Per usual, the government is acting like a petulant child because, you know, compromise is for adults. America saddens me right now more than ever. But what I really hope happens is that citizens see this as an opportunity to purge the system, as it were, of its various toxic elements. Don't feel like working, Congress? Fine. Let's replace them with unselfish public servants that really want to serve their country and not themselves. I don't want to be governed by a bunch of idiots who get to decide when and if they want to work for me and their country.

Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:02 am

Brynjar

Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 1476
Location: Rivertown

"compromise is for adults"

Mostly if I vote for someone and they keep on compromising it's highly likely I won't vote for them again. If there is one place I don't want people compromising it's in public office.

Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:27 am

Captiv8

Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 8546
Location: Third Coast

I think you perceive compromise as the relinquishing of something, rather than an accommodation of equal terms. Because Congress is a divided body, both in terms of structure and in terms of political orientation, each side vies for their own objectives without considering what will be best for the country they are supposed to be serving. If personal agendas are left aside and Democrats and Republicans come together for the greater good, i.e. they reach a compromise that focuses on the betterment of the United States and not themselves, I think that the country and the world would be in a more positive state. What we are witnessing right now is the downfall of a representative democracy. What happens when our elected officials decide that they no longer want to represent us?

I'm hearing more about GTA Online not working than the government not working.

GO HUMANS!

Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:06 pm

Captiv8

Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 8546
Location: Third Coast

It's remarkable, isn't it Plum?

Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:57 am

Mark in Minnesota

Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 2053
Location: Saint Louis Park, MN

There are financial costs to the nation associated with the shutdown. These are open-ended and increase indefinitely as long as the shutdown continues.

The concessions the Republicans have been demanding are all finite in their benefits. For example a fixed-timeline delay in the individual mandate only has a specific finite impact, because all the harm they argue is caused by implementing it now will simply happen later. (There is of course controversy about whether these measures will have any fiscal benefit at all; some have argued that they are all intentionally destructive, designed to destabilize the Affordable Care Act so that a subsequent repeal can be more easily justified in later debates.)

Over a long enough timeline, the damage done by the shutdown will outweigh any benefit that could have been realized by wringing the initially demanded concessions from the Senate and the President. A shutdown hurts all sides politically but I believe a long shutdown hurts the Republicans the most, because they're the ones who have to go back to their constituents and show what enduring the shutdown bought the nation in terms of other policy concessions. Their rhetoric about Democrats refusing to compromise has also painted them into a corner because it means they can't expand their demands as the shutdown drags on past the point of being beneficial to them.

I think the Republicans are going to lose this one, badly.

Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:30 am

Captiv8

Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 8546
Location: Third Coast

On point as usual, Mark. I think that, per usual, the Republicans are shooting themselves in the foot just to say they got a shot off. Boehner and Pelosi et al are, as you observed, exchanging short-term "success" for long-term damage to themselves and their constituents. As a political tactic, it boggles the mind. As a moral and ethical problem, it seems so incredibly unfeasible on either account. Obamacare has its problems, but is this really where Republicans want to make their stand? The are for more pressing issues than affordable healthcare. The amount of profligate waste and the abuse of power here has a negative effect on the US political system in general.

Very interesting. I have to remember sometimes that not every politician is a cold-hearted asshole. At the same time, Congress must realize that 1) this is a largely symbolic gesture, as I'm sure most people would rather have their jobs back, or their federal services reinstated; and 2) that there is a fundamental problem in the law if the entire government can shut down and member of Congress are paid regardless.

Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:21 pm

O2KSFF has a stalker.

Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 1856
Location: Orange County

Captiv8 wrote: What happens when our elected officials decide that they no longer want to represent us?

This happened a long time ago.

Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:51 pm

Mark in Minnesota

Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 2053
Location: Saint Louis Park, MN

1. Congress should still be paid. Elections are the right time and means to punish individual members for failing to prevent a government shutdown. Focusing on who's keeping a paycheck and who isn't keeping one is just silly.

2. I'm honestly more concerned that we have sitting members of Congress who don't _need_ the paycheck. Having other money coming in is a conflict of interest.

3. Obama should negotiate by saying that there is one other kind of budget bill beyond a clean CR that he won't veto: A balanced (or surplus) budget with bipartisan support in both chambers... that leaves the Affordable Care Act as-is.

"We’re not going to be disrespected ... We have to get something out of this. And I don’t know what that even is." — Rep. Marlin Stutzman, a conservative Republican from Indiana, explains why the House GOP won't just send a "clean" spending bill to the Senate.

Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:56 pm

jakethesnakeguy who cried about wrestling being real

Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 6311
Location: airstrip one

Fuck this "Congress should be paid" bullshit. They should never even receive a salary in the first place.

$100 stipend per year + transportation. 400 volunteer positions run this government. The equivalent representation would be about 100,000 volunteers in congress.

Did I mention NH has no sales or income tax, and one of the lowest poverty and unemployment rates in the country?

Bam I just saved 100,000,000 dollars and fixed the government.

Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:41 am

Captiv8

Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 8546
Location: Third Coast

I'm right there with you, Jake. Congress should not be a career. Because it is, we see the vast majority of politicians susceptible to lobbyists and other incentives. We also see politicians wasting time trying to get re-elected, when they should be focusing on helping the American people. As Mark pointed out above, this is usually not the only job that a Congressperson has either. And in the end, the position is that of public servant. That is not a career. It is a responsibility.

Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:52 am

mzehe916

Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 4544
Location: Switzerland

Not to mention that they still receive this salary after they've lost their seat.

Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:05 am

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