Dr.Astros response to "2012 A-Z" pin!!

Dr. Astro, if you care to reply, what do you think of that video going around glp titles "2012 A-Z" ? If you watched it? Quoting: Albanian 12582427

It's crap. Earth does NOT orbit Alcyone. Our sun does NOT orbit Alcyone. Our solar system does NOT orbit Alcyone. Let alone in 25,627 years. Nor do we orbit Sirius.

Let's look at the numbers for Alcyone just to show you how ridiculous this is. Alcyone is of course part of the Pleiades, so let's use the total mass of the Pleiades cluster to see if we're orbiting it. Alcyone has a parallax of about 8.09 milliarcseconds, which corresponds to a distance of about 402 light years. [link to simbad.u-strasbg.fr] It also has a proper motion of about 19.34 milliarcseconds in right ascension and -43.67 milliarcseconds in declination per year. Now at a distance of 402 light years, those 43.67 milliarcseconds/year in declination translate to 805,195,033 kilometers per year or about 25.515 km/second. Now the Pleiades cluster has a total mass of about 740 sun masses ( [link to arxiv.org] ), so at a distance of 400 light years, the escape velocity for the entire Pleiades cluster is about 0.227861 km/second (that velocity will not get you around the 2,500 light year circumference of the orbit in 25,627 years either; just look at it, a roughly circular orbit would have to be about a tenth the speed of light!). In other words, even just taking into account our proper motion in declination, to say nothing of our total motion relative to Alcyone including in right ascension and radial velocity, we're traveling over 100 times too fast to be orbiting the Pleiades! We are not orbiting the Pleiades, let alone Alcyone, not even close.

As for Sirius, it has a proper motion of 1.2 arcseconds/year in declination and .546 arcseconds per year in right ascension ( [link to simbad.u-strasbg.fr] ) (15 km/sec and 6.8 km/sec velocity relative to our solar system respectively). Since we're about 8.6 light years from the Sirius system, and since Sirius A and B have a combined mass of nearly 3 times the sun's mass, the escape velocity from the Sirius system at the distance of our sun is about 0.1 km/sec. In other words, our solar system is traveling many times too fast relative to Sirius to be able to orbit it or be in a trinary configuration with it.

Dr. Astro, if you care to reply, what do you think of that video going around glp titles "2012 A-Z" ? If you watched it? Quoting: Albanian 12582427

It's crap. Earth does NOT orbit Alcyone. Our sun does NOT orbit Alcyone. Our solar system does NOT orbit Alcyone. Let alone in 25,627 years. Nor do we orbit Sirius.

Let's look at the numbers for Alcyone just to show you how ridiculous this is. Alcyone is of course part of the Pleiades, so let's use the total mass of the Pleiades cluster to see if we're orbiting it. Alcyone has a parallax of about 8.09 milliarcseconds, which corresponds to a distance of about 402 light years. [link to simbad.u-strasbg.fr] It also has a proper motion of about 19.34 milliarcseconds in right ascension and -43.67 milliarcseconds in declination per year. Now at a distance of 402 light years, those 43.67 milliarcseconds/year in declination translate to 805,195,033 kilometers per year or about 25.515 km/second. Now the Pleiades cluster has a total mass of about 740 sun masses ( [link to arxiv.org] ), so at a distance of 400 light years, the escape velocity for the entire Pleiades cluster is about 0.227861 km/second (that velocity will not get you around the 2,500 light year circumference of the orbit in 25,627 years either; just look at it, a roughly circular orbit would have to be about a tenth the speed of light!). In other words, even just taking into account our proper motion in declination, to say nothing of our total motion relative to Alcyone including in right ascension and radial velocity, we're traveling over 100 times too fast to be orbiting the Pleiades! We are not orbiting the Pleiades, let alone Alcyone, not even close.

As for Sirius, it has a proper motion of 1.2 arcseconds/year in declination and .546 arcseconds per year in right ascension ( [link to simbad.u-strasbg.fr] ) (15 km/sec and 6.8 km/sec velocity relative to our solar system respectively). Since we're about 8.6 light years from the Sirius system, and since Sirius A and B have a combined mass of nearly 3 times the sun's mass, the escape velocity from the Sirius system at the distance of our sun is about 0.1 km/sec. In other words, our solar system is traveling many times too fast relative to Sirius to be able to orbit it or be in a trinary configuration with it.

Quoting: Albanian 12582427

Yeah yeah...and only a few centuries ago the earth was flat and the sun went around it while it stood still and you were burnt at the stake if ya said otherwise.

Dr. Astro, if you care to reply, what do you think of that video going around glp titles "2012 A-Z" ? If you watched it? Quoting: Albanian 12582427

It's crap. Earth does NOT orbit Alcyone. Our sun does NOT orbit Alcyone. Our solar system does NOT orbit Alcyone. Let alone in 25,627 years. Nor do we orbit Sirius.

Let's look at the numbers for Alcyone just to show you how ridiculous this is. Alcyone is of course part of the Pleiades, so let's use the total mass of the Pleiades cluster to see if we're orbiting it. Alcyone has a parallax of about 8.09 milliarcseconds, which corresponds to a distance of about 402 light years. [link to simbad.u-strasbg.fr] It also has a proper motion of about 19.34 milliarcseconds in right ascension and -43.67 milliarcseconds in declination per year. Now at a distance of 402 light years, those 43.67 milliarcseconds/year in declination translate to 805,195,033 kilometers per year or about 25.515 km/second. Now the Pleiades cluster has a total mass of about 740 sun masses ( [link to arxiv.org] ), so at a distance of 400 light years, the escape velocity for the entire Pleiades cluster is about 0.227861 km/second (that velocity will not get you around the 2,500 light year circumference of the orbit in 25,627 years either; just look at it, a roughly circular orbit would have to be about a tenth the speed of light!). In other words, even just taking into account our proper motion in declination, to say nothing of our total motion relative to Alcyone including in right ascension and radial velocity, we're traveling over 100 times too fast to be orbiting the Pleiades! We are not orbiting the Pleiades, let alone Alcyone, not even close.

As for Sirius, it has a proper motion of 1.2 arcseconds/year in declination and .546 arcseconds per year in right ascension ( [link to simbad.u-strasbg.fr] ) (15 km/sec and 6.8 km/sec velocity relative to our solar system respectively). Since we're about 8.6 light years from the Sirius system, and since Sirius A and B have a combined mass of nearly 3 times the sun's mass, the escape velocity from the Sirius system at the distance of our sun is about 0.1 km/sec. In other words, our solar system is traveling many times too fast relative to Sirius to be able to orbit it or be in a trinary configuration with it.

Quoting: Albanian 12582427

Yeah yeah...and only a few centuries ago the earth was flat and the sun went around it while it stood still and you were burnt at the stake if ya said otherwise.

Its funny how these astronomers STILL think they know everything.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16361854

I don't claim to know everything. But I do know some things, like this. Eratosthenes showed not only that the earth was round with empirical evidence, but he even calculated its circumference over a thousand years before superstitious idiots burned people at the stake for being "witches" or feared going over the edge of the "flat earth." Those weren't astronomers, those were idiots who thought much like my haters here on GLP. Instead of burning at the stake, they just flame my threads instead. It's all hot air though, the substance of what I say is never actually addressed, just like it wasn't addressed in your post.

Dr. Astro, if you care to reply, what do you think of that video going around glp titles "2012 A-Z" ? If you watched it? Quoting: Albanian 12582427

It's crap. Earth does NOT orbit Alcyone. Our sun does NOT orbit Alcyone. Our solar system does NOT orbit Alcyone. Let alone in 25,627 years. Nor do we orbit Sirius.

Let's look at the numbers for Alcyone just to show you how ridiculous this is. Alcyone is of course part of the Pleiades, so let's use the total mass of the Pleiades cluster to see if we're orbiting it. Alcyone has a parallax of about 8.09 milliarcseconds, which corresponds to a distance of about 402 light years. [link to simbad.u-strasbg.fr] It also has a proper motion of about 19.34 milliarcseconds in right ascension and -43.67 milliarcseconds in declination per year. Now at a distance of 402 light years, those 43.67 milliarcseconds/year in declination translate to 805,195,033 kilometers per year or about 25.515 km/second. Now the Pleiades cluster has a total mass of about 740 sun masses ( [link to arxiv.org] ), so at a distance of 400 light years, the escape velocity for the entire Pleiades cluster is about 0.227861 km/second (that velocity will not get you around the 2,500 light year circumference of the orbit in 25,627 years either; just look at it, a roughly circular orbit would have to be about a tenth the speed of light!). In other words, even just taking into account our proper motion in declination, to say nothing of our total motion relative to Alcyone including in right ascension and radial velocity, we're traveling over 100 times too fast to be orbiting the Pleiades! We are not orbiting the Pleiades, let alone Alcyone, not even close.

As for Sirius, it has a proper motion of 1.2 arcseconds/year in declination and .546 arcseconds per year in right ascension ( [link to simbad.u-strasbg.fr] ) (15 km/sec and 6.8 km/sec velocity relative to our solar system respectively). Since we're about 8.6 light years from the Sirius system, and since Sirius A and B have a combined mass of nearly 3 times the sun's mass, the escape velocity from the Sirius system at the distance of our sun is about 0.1 km/sec. In other words, our solar system is traveling many times too fast relative to Sirius to be able to orbit it or be in a trinary configuration with it.

Quoting: Albanian 12582427

Yeah yeah...and only a few centuries ago the earth was flat and the sun went around it while it stood still and you were burnt at the stake if ya said otherwise.

Its funny how these astronomers STILL think they know everything.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16361854

Exactly!

But not just Astronomers. Humans in general. The present generation always think they are the first who figured it all out.

If we look back a few 100 years we say "wow these people were so stupid and crazy."

And in 100 years people will look back at our generation and say the same about us.

Dr. Astro, if you care to reply, what do you think of that video going around glp titles "2012 A-Z" ? If you watched it? Quoting: Albanian 12582427

It's crap. Earth does NOT orbit Alcyone. Our sun does NOT orbit Alcyone. Our solar system does NOT orbit Alcyone. Let alone in 25,627 years. Nor do we orbit Sirius.

Let's look at the numbers for Alcyone just to show you how ridiculous this is. Alcyone is of course part of the Pleiades, so let's use the total mass of the Pleiades cluster to see if we're orbiting it. Alcyone has a parallax of about 8.09 milliarcseconds, which corresponds to a distance of about 402 light years. [link to simbad.u-strasbg.fr] It also has a proper motion of about 19.34 milliarcseconds in right ascension and -43.67 milliarcseconds in declination per year. Now at a distance of 402 light years, those 43.67 milliarcseconds/year in declination translate to 805,195,033 kilometers per year or about 25.515 km/second. Now the Pleiades cluster has a total mass of about 740 sun masses ( [link to arxiv.org] ), so at a distance of 400 light years, the escape velocity for the entire Pleiades cluster is about 0.227861 km/second (that velocity will not get you around the 2,500 light year circumference of the orbit in 25,627 years either; just look at it, a roughly circular orbit would have to be about a tenth the speed of light!). In other words, even just taking into account our proper motion in declination, to say nothing of our total motion relative to Alcyone including in right ascension and radial velocity, we're traveling over 100 times too fast to be orbiting the Pleiades! We are not orbiting the Pleiades, let alone Alcyone, not even close.

As for Sirius, it has a proper motion of 1.2 arcseconds/year in declination and .546 arcseconds per year in right ascension ( [link to simbad.u-strasbg.fr] ) (15 km/sec and 6.8 km/sec velocity relative to our solar system respectively). Since we're about 8.6 light years from the Sirius system, and since Sirius A and B have a combined mass of nearly 3 times the sun's mass, the escape velocity from the Sirius system at the distance of our sun is about 0.1 km/sec. In other words, our solar system is traveling many times too fast relative to Sirius to be able to orbit it or be in a trinary configuration with it.

Quoting: Albanian 12582427

Yeah yeah...and only a few centuries ago the earth was flat and the sun went around it while it stood still and you were burnt at the stake if ya said otherwise.

Its funny how these astronomers STILL think they know everything.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16361854

Exactly!

But not just Astronomers. Humans in general. The present generation always think they are the first who figured it all out.

If we look back a few 100 years we say "wow these people were so stupid and crazy."

And in 100 years people will look back at our generation and say the same about us.

Dr. Astro, if you care to reply, what do you think of that video going around glp titles "2012 A-Z" ? If you watched it? Quoting: Albanian 12582427

It's crap. Earth does NOT orbit Alcyone. Our sun does NOT orbit Alcyone. Our solar system does NOT orbit Alcyone. Let alone in 25,627 years. Nor do we orbit Sirius.

Let's look at the numbers for Alcyone just to show you how ridiculous this is. Alcyone is of course part of the Pleiades, so let's use the total mass of the Pleiades cluster to see if we're orbiting it. Alcyone has a parallax of about 8.09 milliarcseconds, which corresponds to a distance of about 402 light years. [link to simbad.u-strasbg.fr] It also has a proper motion of about 19.34 milliarcseconds in right ascension and -43.67 milliarcseconds in declination per year. Now at a distance of 402 light years, those 43.67 milliarcseconds/year in declination translate to 805,195,033 kilometers per year or about 25.515 km/second. Now the Pleiades cluster has a total mass of about 740 sun masses ( [link to arxiv.org] ), so at a distance of 400 light years, the escape velocity for the entire Pleiades cluster is about 0.227861 km/second (that velocity will not get you around the 2,500 light year circumference of the orbit in 25,627 years either; just look at it, a roughly circular orbit would have to be about a tenth the speed of light!). In other words, even just taking into account our proper motion in declination, to say nothing of our total motion relative to Alcyone including in right ascension and radial velocity, we're traveling over 100 times too fast to be orbiting the Pleiades! We are not orbiting the Pleiades, let alone Alcyone, not even close.

As for Sirius, it has a proper motion of 1.2 arcseconds/year in declination and .546 arcseconds per year in right ascension ( [link to simbad.u-strasbg.fr] ) (15 km/sec and 6.8 km/sec velocity relative to our solar system respectively). Since we're about 8.6 light years from the Sirius system, and since Sirius A and B have a combined mass of nearly 3 times the sun's mass, the escape velocity from the Sirius system at the distance of our sun is about 0.1 km/sec. In other words, our solar system is traveling many times too fast relative to Sirius to be able to orbit it or be in a trinary configuration with it.

Quoting: Albanian 12582427

Yeah yeah...and only a few centuries ago the earth was flat and the sun went around it while it stood still and you were burnt at the stake if ya said otherwise.

Its funny how these astronomers STILL think they know everything.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16361854

Exactly!

But not just Astronomers. Humans in general. The present generation always think they are the first who figured it all out.

If we look back a few 100 years we say "wow these people were so stupid and crazy."

And in 100 years people will look back at our generation and say the same about us.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30212651

My response applies to you as well. As with today, it's the uneducated idiots who thought the world was flat. Scientific minds had already known better for a long time, they even knew the size of the planet. You can look back at astronomy from a hundred years ago and find that their data on the solar system's motion was quite accurate and still works today. Our understanding has dramatically increased, but the basics are still the same and this is very basic stuff.

Dr. Astro, if you care to reply, what do you think of that video going around glp titles "2012 A-Z" ? If you watched it? Quoting: Albanian 12582427

It's crap. Earth does NOT orbit Alcyone. Our sun does NOT orbit Alcyone. Our solar system does NOT orbit Alcyone. Let alone in 25,627 years. Nor do we orbit Sirius.

Let's look at the numbers for Alcyone just to show you how ridiculous this is. Alcyone is of course part of the Pleiades, so let's use the total mass of the Pleiades cluster to see if we're orbiting it. Alcyone has a parallax of about 8.09 milliarcseconds, which corresponds to a distance of about 402 light years. [link to simbad.u-strasbg.fr] It also has a proper motion of about 19.34 milliarcseconds in right ascension and -43.67 milliarcseconds in declination per year. Now at a distance of 402 light years, those 43.67 milliarcseconds/year in declination translate to 805,195,033 kilometers per year or about 25.515 km/second. Now the Pleiades cluster has a total mass of about 740 sun masses ( [link to arxiv.org] ), so at a distance of 400 light years, the escape velocity for the entire Pleiades cluster is about 0.227861 km/second (that velocity will not get you around the 2,500 light year circumference of the orbit in 25,627 years either; just look at it, a roughly circular orbit would have to be about a tenth the speed of light!). In other words, even just taking into account our proper motion in declination, to say nothing of our total motion relative to Alcyone including in right ascension and radial velocity, we're traveling over 100 times too fast to be orbiting the Pleiades! We are not orbiting the Pleiades, let alone Alcyone, not even close.

As for Sirius, it has a proper motion of 1.2 arcseconds/year in declination and .546 arcseconds per year in right ascension ( [link to simbad.u-strasbg.fr] ) (15 km/sec and 6.8 km/sec velocity relative to our solar system respectively). Since we're about 8.6 light years from the Sirius system, and since Sirius A and B have a combined mass of nearly 3 times the sun's mass, the escape velocity from the Sirius system at the distance of our sun is about 0.1 km/sec. In other words, our solar system is traveling many times too fast relative to Sirius to be able to orbit it or be in a trinary configuration with it.

Quoting: Albanian 12582427

Yeah yeah...and only a few centuries ago the earth was flat and the sun went around it while it stood still and you were burnt at the stake if ya said otherwise.

Its funny how these astronomers STILL think they know everything.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16361854

Exactly!

But not just Astronomers. Humans in general. The present generation always think they are the first who figured it all out.

If we look back a few 100 years we say "wow these people were so stupid and crazy."

And in 100 years people will look back at our generation and say the same about us.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30212651

My response applies to you as well. As with today, it's the uneducated idiots who thought the world was flat. Scientific minds had already known better for a long time, they even knew the size of the planet. You can look back at astronomy from a hundred years ago and find that their data on the solar system's motion was quite accurate and still works today. Our understanding has dramatically increased, but the basics are still the same and this is very basic stuff.

Quoting: Dr. Astro

yes , dont get me wrong. I wasnt trying to question your skills/knowledge. Just wanted to point out the human arrogance in general.

Yes that guy in the Alcyonen / Sirius / Sun video never really explained how he came up with his hypothesis. Probably because there was no explanation that was based on fact. It was an ok viideo though. Entertaining. At least it provoked some deep thinking.

no no no no no, if you want to counter an argument that all these fucking maniacal doomers will believe, you need to get together a ton of truly awful sound effects, clips and soundbytes from unrelated movies and mash them all together in a retina burning powerpoint presentation that goes on for over an hour. Make sure to add in a few completely absurd scientific theories the likes of which you have no comprehension of, make facts up on the spot and don't forget to add an element of mystery by alluding that you've been kidnapped/killed by TPTB since posting the video online.

Most of us are very accustomed to authoritative figures being nothing but brick walls to talk to.

Especially psychologists. It is so dogmatic that they will disregard explanations if they do not fit with the "base logic" that may or may not be correct.

I have to ask though, in your opinion, what does the Mayan calendar refer to?

Quoting: pi 20063747

The day when the sun will cross the galactic equator in the sky (not physically pass through the plane, just an apparent alignment with the equator which happens twice each year) on the day of the December solstice. Due to precession, this has been happening for a number of years now at the December solstice, and will continue to happen for a few more years. It may have been their way of marking the end of a precession cycle (or at least, one quarter of a precession cycle) in my opinion, but if it started some 5000 years ago or so, then they're a little off on the actual length of a precession cycle; a little over 6000 years would bring you to the point that this apparent alignment would occur at equinox instead of solstice.

So the maya predictions aren't based on something catastrophic happening ? Rather an alignment that only happens every 5000 years signalling a new age if you will?

Quoting: Albanian 12582427

It's actually a little more than 6000 years between points where the apparent alignment occurs on either an equinox or a solstice date, but it happens every year regardless. It may have been an attempt to mark long passages of time by precession, but they were a little off on the length of time if so. They got it close enough for this point in the cycle, but projecting it out to the next quarter of the cycle it's wrong.

Thanks for the clarification Astro, regardless of how wrong they may have been on this, credit is still due to them, how do you Think they managed to do all of this ?

Quoting: Albanian 12582427

I'm not an expert on anthropology or archeology, so you'd have to ask someone who knows more in those areas - my opinion that they were trying to base this on precession is not necessarily "mainstream" and is simply based on my observation about the timing of this date and length of their calendar cycle with a precession-driven cycle. Hipparchus is generally recognized as the discoverer of precession, and certain he is the discoverer of it within the lineage of modern civilization. He did this by comparing the positions of bright stars such as Regulus and Spica to measurements made by his predecessors Timocharis and Aristillus and also measured the length of the tropical year and compared it to the sidereal year and found a difference which arises due to precession. It was certainly doable even with primitive technology. Celestial positions could be determined with an armillary sphere, such as that invented by Eratosthenes (according to Hipparchus himself). It's said that Hipparchus used an observational armillary: [link to www.hps.cam.ac.uk]