A desperate Cry for help

Re: A desperate Cry for help

From all the media represents, it rubs off as... they want more money, complaining about something, protesting about somethings, this and that..

My feelings on Natives come from what I hear, watch and read from the media.. so if your going to go %#(# on anyone get the media.

I think the monthly checks for being Native are enough from the gov....

On that note, when do we ever forget the "crimes" we caused against them... are we still going to give natives special status 1 century from now...?

It is not only what we did to them it is about what we are doing today. Read the post from CDNBear and mine on le Paix des Braves between Quebec and the Crees.
Canada Violates Conditions of the EM1A-Rupert Diversion Permit

westmanguy

#32

Re: A desperate Cry for help

Feb 24th, 2007

I wish more people would come together to kill this issue and solve the problems once and for all.

Last edited by westmanguy; Feb 25th, 2007 at 12:54 AM..

Sparrow

#33

Re: A desperate Cry for help

Feb 24th, 2007

How about maybe if they got their justice they would be in a better position to become productive member of their and our community. Just like some white people there will always be those who will live of the government, but at least those who want to work and succeed will have a chance. I don't know about how they are treated out west but here in Quebec there is alot to be desired.

westmanguy

#34

Re: A desperate Cry for help

Feb 24th, 2007

Ottawa and Harper really need to address these issue facing the native community.

Or it will turn ugly, and we can't take anymore of that...

Last edited by westmanguy; Feb 25th, 2007 at 12:54 AM..

canadarocks

#35

Re: A desperate Cry for help

Feb 24th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by westmanguy

You may be a bleeding heart for the Natives.. but ALOT, and don't deny it, of Canadians couldn't care less about the Natives.

And ALOT, once again you can't deny, of people have levels of racism towards natives, due to their special status and $$

Not saying, if or if I am not in that group, but its there, and thats why they are never going to get their "Justice".

Racisim ends with one person saying I don't see your colour, I see your soul.

westmanguy

#36

Re: A desperate Cry for help

Feb 24th, 2007

I wish more Canadians would stop looking at them in color, but for the people they really are.

Children making a desperate cry for help.

Last edited by westmanguy; Feb 25th, 2007 at 12:55 AM..

canadarocks

#37

Re: A desperate Cry for help

Feb 24th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by westmanguy

I am not racist.. I just don't like the fact Natives get so much benifits.

I want them to be treated equally to the rest of us.. and no more extra $$ and benifits, for your color of your skin.

This is reverse-racism. The gov. is seeing them in color.

The gov. is separating them with special status and special benifits.

Racism is treating people of different ethnicities different.

With that definition, our gov. is racist towards Natives.

Every comment you've made about the Indians has been racist. Do you blame them for wishing our government to uphold the treaties it agreed to uphold? Do you feel it would be fair to disregard what WE agreed to?

canadarocks

#38

Re: A desperate Cry for help

Feb 24th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by westmanguy

You may be a bleeding heart for the Natives.. but ALOT, and don't deny it, of Canadians couldn't care less about the Natives.

And ALOT, once again you can't deny, of people have levels of racism towards natives, due to their special status and $$

Not saying, if or if I am not in that group, but its there, and thats why they are never going to get their "Justice".

You know, I'm shocked to read these comments. How you can write such nasty stuff when the issue is regarding the high rate of suicide amongst young Natives is beyond me.
You claim you are not being racist, but you take a very serious problem and turn it into bigotry. How sad. Would you say these things to the Indian mothers of the children who have killed themselves?

westmanguy

#39

Re: A desperate Cry for help

Feb 24th, 2007

I really feel sorry for the parents that have to deal with this tragedy in their lives.

Last edited by westmanguy; Feb 25th, 2007 at 12:57 AM..

canadarocks

#40

Re: A desperate Cry for help

Feb 24th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by westmanguy

I would say the parents probably had to be a factor in the suicides.

Many aboriginal adults are involved in criminal indictable offenses and have addiction problems. So the parents could have been a problem.

It could be that Natives don't value their youth.

Many factors could contribute to this.

Are you a parent? How dare you suggest such nonsense! How many Natives? Give me statistics, not your prejudice. How many of these parents have committed crime? How many of them are addicts??? If you cannot substantiate your racist remarks, be quiet. Children are killing themsleves, do you not understand that?

westmanguy

#41

Re: A desperate Cry for help

Feb 24th, 2007

Just out of interest, is attempted suicide a crime?

Last edited by westmanguy; Feb 25th, 2007 at 12:47 AM..

canadarocks

#42

Re: A desperate Cry for help

Feb 24th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by westmanguy

Last time I checked, suicide is a crime (I a positive in the USA it is, in Canada i am so-so sure it is).

Only ONE person decides to take their life. Whatever factors you throw at it, they are the ones who took their life.

And people are trying to make this look like a big problem with Natives.

the NUMBER TWO cause of death for teens (11-19) is sucide. The NUMBER ONE killer for people age 21 is suicide.

This is not a Native only problem..so instead of associating suicide with Natives, we should be looking at this as a problem for all youths and deal with it nationally.

Some thoughts. Not racist BTW, just don't like special status and special benifits for people of certain ethnicity compared to other people in that nation.

Back up your claims. You're backtracking. You blamed the Native parents, so again:Give me statistics, not your prejudice. How many of these parents have committed crime? How many of them are addicts???

westmanguy

#43

Re: A desperate Cry for help

Feb 24th, 2007

I see the problems with this community, and I think the government needs to setup youth orienated programs to keep youth inspired for a better life.

Last edited by westmanguy; Feb 25th, 2007 at 12:49 AM..

canadarocks

#44

Re: A desperate Cry for help

Feb 24th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by westmanguy

I am positive on those stastics because I vividly remember them from a motivation speaker I listened to on suicide.

And without going through all the stats, its well known that natives have higher percentages for crimes and addictions compared to other races.

And I personally am saying that Native parents don't value there children from what I have seen over the years.

And you like to parade yourself as a Christian??? You should be ashamed of yourself. Again, Give me statistics, not your prejudice. How many of these parents have committed crime? How many of them are addicts???

westmanguy

#45

Re: A desperate Cry for help

Feb 24th, 2007

Yes, I see this problem getting much worse unless we deal with it effectively.

Last edited by westmanguy; Feb 25th, 2007 at 12:49 AM..

sanctus

#46

Re: A desperate Cry for help

Feb 24th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by westmanguy

Natives have a tendency to have higher rates of crime, suicide, and addictions.. because of the majority of native lifestyles and habits, this is why the stats are higher for them.

Natives just are weak to the pressures of crime and addictions.

You wrote the rather amazing statement that Native parents were responsible for the suicides of their children due to their drug addiction and criminal activity. Can you indicate where you have arrived at such astonishing information!

westmanguy

#47

Re: A desperate Cry for help

Feb 24th, 2007

The Native people have been hurt so much over the last century and they deserve better.

They really do...

Last edited by westmanguy; Feb 25th, 2007 at 12:50 AM..

sanctus

#48

Re: A desperate Cry for help

Feb 24th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by westmanguy

due to the overall higher stats of natives who are criminals and have addictions compared to other ethnicities, that stat applies to the parents.

And if they got higher percentages for crime and addictions, parents fall under that, and a parent who is a criminal and/or and addict hurts the child and can contribute to that suicide.

Of the children who have killed themselves, how many of the parents were criminals and/or drug addicts. Not a generalization, actual numbers please.

westmanguy

#49

Re: A desperate Cry for help

Feb 24th, 2007

So how do you think we need to go about this sad issue?

Nationally, provinciall, locally, in what ways can we stop this epidemic?

Last edited by westmanguy; Feb 25th, 2007 at 12:51 AM..

sanctus

#50

Re: A desperate Cry for help

Feb 24th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by westmanguy

My generalized statments are pretty much on the mark, but I don't feel like digging up stats.

Suicids are also higher in poorer homes and homes with criminal/addiction activity.

There.

If you are unprepared to suggest evidence for some very heartless comments, perhaps you should not write them?

canadarocks

#51

Re: A desperate Cry for help

Feb 24th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by westmanguy

My generalized statments are pretty much on the mark, but I don't feel like digging up stats.

Suicids are also higher in poorer homes and homes with criminal/addiction activity.

There.

And you don't think it is cruel to suggest to grieving parents it is their fault?

canadarocks

#52

Re: A desperate Cry for help

Feb 24th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by westmanguy

Natives have a tendency to have higher rates of crime, suicide, and addictions.. because of the majority of native lifestyles and habits, this is why the stats are higher for them.

Natives just are weak to the pressures of crime and addictions.

You must be joking! You don't think it is because of the economic situation the people find themselves in that contributes to these stats?

sanctus

#53

Re: A desperate Cry for help

Feb 24th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by canadarocks

You must be joking! You don't think it is because of the economic situation the people find themselves in that contributes to these stats?

Of course this is not a factor, remember he has claimed they are wealthy. Now he is claiming they are poor.I'm very confused!

westmanguy

#54

Re: A desperate Cry for help

Feb 24th, 2007

A possible idea is funding for more youth orienated community facilities where the community can interact and these kids will not want to take their life.

Last edited by westmanguy; Feb 25th, 2007 at 12:51 AM..

canadarocks

#55

Re: A desperate Cry for help

Feb 24th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by westmanguy

They get checks from the gov. every month, and they can live a good life with welfare and the gov. checks but they waste there $$ on their weaknesses: aka addictions.

How many? All Natives, half of the Natives? What numbers? How many of the parents of teen suicides are drug addicts or criminals? 1/2 of them ? All of them?

snfu73

#56

Re: A desperate Cry for help

Feb 24th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by westmanguy

I would say the parents probably had to be a factor in the suicides.

Many aboriginal adults are involved in criminal indictable offenses and have addiction problems. So the parents could have been a problem.

It could be that Natives don't value their youth.

Many factors could contribute to this.

I think you gotta do some research and stop with the brutal stereotyping westmanguy...frankly, you are being horribly racist. Come on, your a smart guy..don't buy into the stereotypes.

sanctus

#57

Re: A desperate Cry for help

Feb 24th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by westmanguy

They get checks from the gov. every month, and they can live a good life with welfare and the gov. checks but they waste there $$ on their weaknesses: aka addictions.

How do you know this? How much money do you figure these cheques are for anyway? Have you ever been in a position in which you were required to receive welfare? How do you know that Natives lack the normal compassion and love for their children that anybody else would have?

CDNBear

#58

Re: A desperate Cry for help

Feb 24th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by westmanguy

Then if your going to blame anyone... blame the media.

From all the media represents, it rubs off as... they want more money, complaining about something, protesting about somethings, this and that..

My feelings on Natives come from what I hear, watch and read from the media.. so if your going to go %#(# on anyone get the media.

I think the monthly checks for being Native are enough from the gov....

On that note, when do we ever forget the "crimes" we caused against them... are we still going to give natives special status 1 century from now...?

Quote: Originally Posted by westmanguy

You may be a bleeding heart for the Natives.. but ALOT, and don't deny it, of Canadians couldn't care less about the Natives.

And ALOT, once again you can't deny, of people have levels of racism towards natives, due to their special status and $$

Not saying, if or if I am not in that group, but its there, and thats why they are never going to get their "Justice".

Quote: Originally Posted by westmanguy

The west doesn't treat them as good as the east does.

Quote: Originally Posted by canadarocks

Racisim ends with one person saying I don't see your colour, I see your soul.

BEAUTIFUL, absolutely beautiful, there is nothing more one can add to that, a thought in perfection!

Quote: Originally Posted by westmanguy

I am not racist.. I just don't like the fact Natives get so much benifits.

I want them to be treated equally to the rest of us.. and no more extra $$ and benifits, for your color of your skin.

This is reverse-racism. The gov. is seeing them in color.

The gov. is separating them with special status and special benifits.

Racism is treating people of different ethnicities different.

With that definition, our gov. is racist towards Natives.

Quote: Originally Posted by westmanguy

I would say the parents probably had to be a factor in the suicides.

Many aboriginal adults are involved in criminal indictable offenses and have addiction problems. So the parents could have been a problem.

It could be that Natives don't value their youth.

Many factors could contribute to this.

Quote: Originally Posted by westmanguy

Last time I checked, suicide is a crime (I a positive in the USA it is, in Canada i am so-so sure it is).

Only ONE person decides to take their life. Whatever factors you throw at it, they are the ones who took their life.

And people are trying to make this look like a big problem with Natives.

the NUMBER TWO cause of death for teens (11-19) is sucide. The NUMBER ONE killer for people age 21 is suicide.

This is not a Native only problem..so instead of associating suicide with Natives, we should be looking at this as a problem for all youths and deal with it nationally.

Some thoughts. Not racist BTW, just don't like special status and special benifits for people of certain ethnicity compared to other people in that nation.

Quote: Originally Posted by westmanguy

I am positive on those stastics because I vividly remember them from a motivation speaker I listened to on suicide.

And without going through all the stats, its well known that natives have higher percentages for crimes and addictions compared to other races.

And I personally am saying that Native parents don't value there children from what I have seen over the years.

Quote: Originally Posted by westmanguy

Natives have a tendency to have higher rates of crime, suicide, and addictions.. because of the majority of native lifestyles and habits, this is why the stats are higher for them.

Natives just are weak to the pressures of crime and addictions.

Quote: Originally Posted by westmanguy

due to the overall higher stats of natives who are criminals and have addictions compared to other ethnicities, that stat applies to the parents.

And if they got higher percentages for crime and addictions, parents fall under that, and a parent who is a criminal and/or and addict hurts the child and can contribute to that suicide.

Quote: Originally Posted by westmanguy

My generalized statments are pretty much on the mark, but I don't feel like digging up stats.

Suicids are also higher in poorer homes and homes with criminal/addiction activity.

There.

OK, let me get this straight, you make all these claims, alligations and accusations, with no proof at all to back them up, and we're supposed to believe it's all a benign fact of Native life as determined by you???

Give your head a shake!

As I know you are well aware, I am Native, I am Ohkwai, Onyata'a;ka Onondaga of the Six Nations. Not only am I gainfully employed, I employee people, I own my own business, I haven't seen a government cheque in my entire life, well that's a lie, I was a Soldier in the Canadian Army for a few years too, Saw Peacekeeping duty twice. My boys have never been without, never seen me drunk, although until the birth of my oldest, I struggled with addiction and alcoholism, my Father served in the Army, the RCMP, my Grand Father served in the Army, ran a logging camp after he returned from Korea and retired from the service, my Great Grand Father served before him, as my sons will likely serve after me.

There are First Nation lawyers nurses and teachers across Canada, these are things I can back up with hard evidence.

I will not try and deny that there is waste and corruption in the many Nations, but as most of the members here will attest to, I have been my peoples harshest critic, when it comes to inpropriaty. I have been so outspoken about the criminality in our leadership, that my very physical health has been put at risk. But I am NOT alone, there are more like me then there are like the ones you claim are the many. That I can back up with cold hard facts.

You want to know who keeps putting the corrupt leaders back into office, ask the MIA, they have gone to court to get injunctions, forcing their leaders on us. These are the same leaders we vote out. That's great democracy.

There is an element of crime on the res and in the community, this I will not deny. But it is not the common practice of all of us, in fact it is a minor element of the populous, that is another provable cold hard fact.

You keep whining that we get money money money. Prove it!!! After the governement pays itself for administering to us, there is approx $8,000 dollars/Native/per year to live on.

That money is considered mortgage payments for the purchase of our land. Deal with it. If you don't like it, move off, we'll repo your square.

You should really rethink your news sources, mine are from across Canada and the US, from both militant and appeasment sources, both mainstream and indy. I get a real good and varying perspective, because my mind isn't made up before I look for the news.

You might want to try the same. Especially when CC has a token injun named Ohkwai!

Last edited by CDNBear; Feb 24th, 2007 at 11:16 PM..

canadarocks

#59

Re: A desperate Cry for help

Feb 24th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear

OK, let me get this straight, you make all these claims, alligations and accusations, with no proof at all to back them up, and we're supposed to believe it's all a benign fact of Native life as determined by you???Give your head a shake!As I know you are well aware, I am Native, I am Ohkwai, Onyata'a;ka Onondaga of the Six Nations. Not only am I gainfully employed, I employee people, I own my own business, I haven't seen a government cheque in my entire life, well that's a lie, I was a Soldier in the Canadian Army for a few years too, Saw Peacekeeping duty twice. My boys have never been without, never seen me drunk, although until the birth of my oldest, I struggled with addiction and alcoholism, my Father served in the Army, the RCMP, my Grand Father served in the Army, ran a logging camp after he returned from Korea and retired from the service, my Great Grand Father served before him, as my sons will likely serve after me.There are First Nation lawyers nurses and teachers across Canada, these are things I can back up with hard evidence.I will not try and deny that there is waste and corruption in the many Nations, but as most of the members here will attest to, I have been my peoples harshest critic, when it comes to inpropriaty. I have been so outspoken about the criminality in our leadership, that my very physical health has been put at risk. But I am NOT alone, there are more like me then there are...

Quote has been trimmed, See full post:

Bravo! But why was something I wrote in the middle of his stuff? Was I incorrect????

CDNBear

#60

Re: A desperate Cry for help

Feb 24th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by canadarocks

Bravo! But why was something I wrote in the middle of his stuff? Was I incorrect????

Sorry!!!!!!

I clicked on it cause I loved it, it was a beautiful thing to say and absolutely true.