As the latest edition of the hugely popular toy and game hybrid hits the
shelves, Ashton Raze talks to the CEO of Activision publishing about the
series... and why Pop Fizz might be the best figure

When people talk about huge, culturally significant games, it's often the violent or controversial which get name checked. When people talk about artistic design intricacies, it's the Journeys of this world, the Antichambers. For the gaming press particularly, it's easy to overlook a game where the majority of sales come from toy shops, where its primary target audience save up their pocket money to buy content. But there's no denying the Skylanders franchise is a hugely important, defining part of this generation. A franchise that's spawned countless merchandise; figures, bags, wallets, even figures OF figures in the form of Skylanders Mega Blox. The Spyro name has long since been dropped from the series, although the character still appears, and it's definitely very much its own thing, a far cry from the Insomniac PS1-era platformers.

It's an interesting approach to rejuvenating an old property, actually. While Skylanders technically fits canonically with the Spyro reboot trilogy (starring Elijah Wood, in fact), it's very much its own thing; a new genre, a new cast of characters, a new set of systems. It references an old series without being restricted by it, and of course leaves the possibility open for future Spyro-centric titles, should Activision decide to continue making them.

Go into any toy shop, or supermarket, or entertainment store, and you'll likely be greeted by hundreds of plastic figures; dragons, robots, sharks with legs. Right now, the Isle of Skye itself has been taken over by Skylanders, in a 'virtual twinning' between the fictional world and the real one, with Wash Buckler visiting schools on the island, and even the Isle of Skye website getting in on the action (just type the word SWAP on the main page and see what happens). It's a cultural phenomenon, a bit like One Direction but with more fire-breathing and bomb-throwing.

One of the things that I've always admired in Skylanders, personally, is the level of detail and thought that goes into the design. They're not only in-game characters, but collectible action figures too, and it's fascinating to see a cast of characters essentially designed twice, to work both as a toy and as an in-game playable character. I got a chance to sit down with Activision CEO Eric Hirshberg and talk about the series.

Ashton: Obviously Skylanders is massively successful. I read earlier that it's the best selling action figure brand of the year. I'm quite interested to know what actually kicked off the very original idea, because obviously Spyro was very low-key at the time, with a much smaller fanbase than Skylanders has. Was there any particular thought process in taking this particular property in the directions you did?

Eric: The original idea that kicked it off is that Toys for Bob had an assignment for a game with a much smaller scope originally, trying to figure out how to rejuvenate the Spyro franchise. One of the earliest product reviews - before my time at the company - came to the table with the idea of bringing a toy to life through a portal in-game. And I think that was the moment, frankly, where everyone at Activision's imaginations were captivated. It was a far bigger potential idea than what we'd previously contemplated. So later on we decided to extend the development process by an entire year in order to allow the game to achieve a much deeper and richer scope, and also to allow us to get it to grade because we thought we had something really special. But as you said, at the time there were a lot of sceptics about us making a big investment in the toy category overall, let alone an unproven new franchise and an unproven new play mechanic. Other publishers were getting out of kids games at the time, and the Wii, which was the predominant platform for kids at the time, was seen as waning, so there weren't a lot of spreadsheets or charts that you could cover yourself with to say that this investment made sense on paper, but it wasn't on paper that we were working, it was just this magical idea. And the other thing we had to embolden us was with the kids who were doing play testing for the game during the development process, it was just this off the chart idea for kids. You can imagine the first time a kid saw a toy come to life in a video game, their eyes popped out of their heads, and we were seeing that happen very consistently. Usually when you test creative ideas, you see three populations; people who really like it, people who dislike it and people who are neutral, and the only variations are the sizes of the populations. In this case, though, there was only one population, and that was people loved it. And that's what we saw and that's what told us, as well as our own instincts, that this thing could be much bigger than we originally thought.

A: I think it's easy to say, looking back at the idea, that it was so obvious, why didn't anyone do it before? But I think that perhaps cheapens the fantastic design that's gone into the Skylanders. It's not something you can just 'do'. I think one of my favourite aspects is how well-designed all of the characters are; they're all very unique. Even amongst similar types, the dragon types, the bird types etcetera, they're all very unique.

E: Yeah. The differences aren't just cosmetic either, a lot of the things we spent a lot of time on during that extra year I mentioned were the character designs. The characters, mythology, the depth and quality of the game design itself, because we wanted to make sure every element of this was a Triple A offering. But one of the things you mention is the character design, one of the other things that I think really makes collecting Skylanders so satisfying is that each of the characters really brings different experiences and powers into the game. It's not just the same character with different shapes and different colour paint, they have different capabilities, different personalities, they can solve different problems inside the game. And we've been really diligent in ensuring that every time you buy a Skylander that it's really paid off and that your investment is rewarded by great new experiences inside the game. And I also agree with you that the refinement and the quality inside the game itself is really high; I'm pleased that the critical acclaim for Swap Force has been so strong so far (link to Andy's review). It's very gratifying to see a children's game get its dues as a piece of artistic craftsmanship.

A: The Swap Force figures seem noticeably different to the first two waves. I want to say more cartoony and exaggerated, but not in a derogatory way - they look like they have even more personality now. But how has the response been from existing fans in terms of the characters being more larger-than-life?

E: We haven't heard any negative feedback, in fact the feedback has been overwhelmingly positive, from both existing fans of the franchise, and new fans. But y'know, it's interesting you have that perception because one of the things we've struggled to get the right balance of with Skylanders from the beginning is, and y'know, of course, it's a fantasy, it's a game that takes place with dragons, and it has a lot of typical characters, and we've been very careful from the beginning to ensure that every Skylander is designed with a wink, and with a sense of whimsy and humour because we think that's what differentiates it from every other game out there, that personality. I'd point you to characters like Eruptor, or Boomer, or Trigger Happy, or Pop Fizz from games past who also had that big, larger than life, cartoony personality. The characters have always been on a continuum, on one hand you have characters like those, on the other you have characters like Stealth Elf or Drobot who are a little more sleek, and traditionally colourful looking. I think somewhere on that continuum lies the unique personality of Skylanders. I also think that in regards to Swap Force characters, the other thing we really fussed with to get right is the feeling of actually swapping them. If you can imagine, the innovative mechanic of this game, the toys actually come apart, we didn't want that to lead to a feeling of flimsiness or anything that lacks solidity in your hand, so we absolutely obsessed over the right number of magnets, or the right construction, so that when they're put together in a very sort of satisfying and solid way, and any combination feels like an integrated toy, not like two halves of something that are hanging on for dear life to one another.

A: I was surprised when I first saw an image of a swapped character, how well they fit together, because when you look at them individually it's hard to picture, but when you see them put together, it's very well done.

E: Yeah, it really works. And also, even details down to the name of the characters, each Swap Force character's name naturally splits in half as well, so for example Blast Zone and Wash Buckler combine to make Wash Zone and Blast Buckler, and when a combined character goes onto the portal, the game actually introduces the character with the combined name. We actually looked at the naming protocol of the characters in a very careful way, to make sure each of the names work together in both directions, so the top half is the first half of the name and the bottom half is the second half of the name, and they combine in real time. And a lot of effort went into making sure that every last detail of the toys worked, not only in their indigenous form but in their combined ones as well.

A: Talking of these new figures coming apart, when you first set out to make them, you made the decision that the figures wouldn't be articulated. Was this always the case, and is this something you think you'll stick with in future series?

E: The logic was simply that the primary interaction with these toys is slamming them down on the portal. We wanted that to be a very tactile and immediate experience, and the best way to accomplish that was with a solid platform and a solid toy that never lost its balance. And also we felt like for the type of toys that they were, they were truly collectibles, they were things that kids would love to admire and collect and use as toys, but they weren't traditional action figures, they were definitely collectibles. And the other thing is that there's this great mythology that we developed for the story, which is that these are not toys at all, these are heroes that have been ejected from their dimension to our dimension, and in our dimension they happen to be frozen, and the only way to free them is to become the portal master and place them on the portal. This achieves a couple of things, it makes the imaginary relationship between the kid and the toy that much more real, and it gives the player a tremendously empowered role in the story itself, because they're the hero that saves the day. The story can't take place without them, so all of these details are what we essentially planned through to ensure the success of the franchise, as we had as you said at the beginning, what we felt was a really clever idea

A: In terms of competition for Skylanders, despite it being an obviously successful idea, it's pretty much largely unrivaled, and as far as I'm aware until this year it was the only game doing anything like it does. Obviously Disney Infinity came along, but it doesn't seem to have halted the Skylanders buzz whatsoever. So what do you think makes Skylanders so popular compared to even, say, massively well known franchises? Obviously for Skylanders you've created all-new fiction for it, but it's been embraced so well. There's something extra special about it that people have really responded to.

E: In terms of competition, I think it was only a matter of time before competitors came into the genre we created, and that's almost inevitable. In terms of our creative process, we really don't focus on our competitors. It's no different than in any other parts of our business, we have strong competition everywhere, and focusing on them doesn't help you make a better game. We try to stay focus on what got us here in the first place, which is breakthrough creativity and really delightful and charming ideas, and a tremendous commitment to the craftsmanship and quality. So those are the things we remain focused on. One of the key elements to Skylanders that I think is actually a huge advantage for us is the fact they're new characters; it's a new story, and a set of characters that are designed for this experience. They haven't been repurposed from anything else, they don't have any other limitations from any other storylines or media. When we sit down to design Skylanders we have one thing in mind, and that's what's going to be the most fun for kids to interact with, and that's how we design their powers, their personality, their storyline. So in every case it's been designed from the ground up to honour this fusion of physical play and digital play. That's how we got to the original idea, that's how we got to the storyline of kids being portal masters, that's how we got to the design of each character, and that's how we got to the idea for this year's game, which is would it be fun to be able to swap parts and make your own versions of the Skylanders? And it's because we start with that clean slate, that blank white canvas, that we're able to just follow our instincts as to what would make the most fun for the game. And y'know, that's exactly where we wanna stay focused.

Having been told we were almost out of time, I asked Eric one final question, in an attempt to end on an easy-to-answer note.

A: Who is your favourite Skylander?

E: (Eric laughs) I know this is supposed to be the softball question but it's actually the toughest one. Oh man, I don't know if I can choose.(Eric pauses here for a moment.) I think my favourite Swap Force character has to be Stink Bomb, and I'm sure that reveals my inner ten year old. I think a ninja-fighting skunk is just a wonderful idea. And my favourite Skylander of all... I don't know. I love Pop Fizz, I love Tree Rex, I love Trigger Happy, I love Eruptor, they're probably the ones I slam down on the portal the most.

A: Good choices. Pop Fizz is my favourite.

I thought about this for a while afterwards, though, and I was conflicted. What about Ghost Roaster, the living skeleton? Or Ninjini, the giant ninja? Or Shroom Boom? Wham Shell? Hot Dog? Lightning Rod?!

There was only one thing for it. I'd have to put them all to the test.