I think it was the N'sync episode that finally killed it for me. Presumably they still do celebrity cameos by having one of the Simpsons say "Look everyone, it's {insert celebrity here}"? They have to say this because the character looks nothing like the celebrity and the celebrity is a nobody that no-one will recognise.<br><br>
I remember when they made celebrity guests voice actual characters and be part of the plot instead of being badly hacked in cameos.

But somebody needs to stop Dana Gould. I've hung in there about as long as I can...the last two seasons have been beyond dreadful. Whole episodes with not one single joke. The show wasnt doing great when Gould came onboard,but hes driven a crashing ship right into and under the ground....

It's baffling to me how many people think The Simpsons "hasn't been funny in years." Every time I tune in I'm laughing. What's even more baffling to me is how many people think The Family Guy IS funny. Oh well. To each his own, I guess.

But Family guy has the bigger problem with drawing celebrity lookalikes. After they said their name on The Simpsons you really start to think: "Yeah, that's him", while the only thing you think in Family Guy is: "Yes, that's obviously a man and this a woman". I think they use the same character model for every character that doesn't belong to the main cast anyway.

and are happy, why the fuck not? Even mediocre Simpsons is better than 90% of the comedies on the air (on network mind you).<p>Tell you what I'm looking forward to in a couple of weeks, The Jack Smack Attack Power Hour followed by Nathan Fillion in Castle on ABC. The promos make it look like Bones, but episodes I'd actually want to watch.

...who said "It's not as funny, but still entertaining." Most of the time it's good for a chuckle or two and these days, is that really a bad thing? And yeah, it's not "cutting edge" anymore... no duh Sherlocks, it's only been on for 20 years. Let's see how "cutting edge" any of you whiney nerds look by 2029!

Obviously it's not what it was during the first 7 or 8 seasons; but after a few so-so years, the last two seasons have been pretty great with exploration of some of the smaller characters and not just concentrating on the adventures of Captain Whacky. I for one am glad it's still on. BTW, Fuck Family Guy. That show sucks ass since it came back and the Star Wars show was beyond shit.

...continues to crawl towards Armageddon. The quality of the show now is an insult to the quality of the show 15 years ago. But as this tb shows, some people still watch it. If you can call these things people...

back in season 11. the show had been in clear decline for at least a year before that, but the jockey ep made me realise how the rotten the show had become.<p>
yes, i know there have been better eps since, but whenever i come back to the show, i still can't get the nasty taste out. the movie was funny but the golden age has long gone.<p>

full length Treehouse of horrors for the big screen. The last couple tree house of horrors have been a little lacking. Still funny, but they felt kind of rushed. One movie with three full thirty minute horror episodes? And maybe it would finally kill Saw at the Box Office, thus ending that evil, evil franchise.

A) The show is funny. It really wasn't very good a couple years ago, but the last two seasons have been good. B) NOTHING is as good as it "used to be." C) Whoever said that Fillion show looks like it's worth watching must be blind. D) Family Guy = Rehashed Simpsons episodes - wit + shock value.

I love the show, always have... but can you imagine how hard it must be for the voice actors to have been playing the same characters for this long? I know they're compensated well, but Christ, Dan Castenalletta (I know it's spelled wrong, fucking sue me) has been playing an average of 5 characters a show since before a lot of you were even born. Gotta give props there.

is fast forward the show six years.
So bart is 16 and in high school (because the simpsons has never been able to really go into high school)
Lisa is 14 but has been bumped into barts grade because of smarts.
Grandpa's dead.
ANd so on.

a watch because of Fillion. If he transcends the ripped-from-Moonlighting nature of the show, then good. And I also agree, after dumping Pushing Daisies, and continuing to clog the airwaves with "reality",and estrogen shows (Housewives, Brothers & Sisters) ABC has Lost......and nothing else.

There have been some seriously awful episodes no doubt about that (the last three Treehouse of Horrors have been completely abysmal) but there have been a few gems. The Departed episode was pretty good ("The rat symbolizes obviousness") and there was one where Lisa gets an IPOD that had me laughing quite a bit just because it was at the expense of the customers ("How dare she insult the CEO we fired and then rehired again"). The movie showed that if you at least use some of the best writers the show had and allow them to push the envelope theres still plenty of juice to get out of this world. Problem is, as long as this show goes on the less affection it has for its supporting characters. Ironically Apu has become less likeable as he becomes less and less like a caricature. At least one thing in the show remains consistent: Homer and Marge have the best marriage on television simply because neither has eyes for anyone else. That factor gave the movie a lot of sweetness I hadn't seen since the first six seasons.

@memento108, "skein" is just another, obscure word for "film" (in the literal sense, as in a thin film covering something).
As soon as I saw it, I knew it had to be from Variety. I don't think anyone else in the world uses that damn word.
And while we're at it, I'd be happier if "hip" entertainment "journalists" would stop using the word "gong" to mean "award".
Ah, pet peeves. I have a whole bucket full...

A lot of people cite the Jockey episode as the clear demarcation line where it was obvious the classic satirical Simpsons was gone, but I went looking for the first episode that really started to smack of new Simpsons where the characters started to act completely illogically for their characters and nonsensically pepper their dialogue with insipid slang. And my studies led me to The Twisted World of Marge Simpson, where Marge runs the pretzel business. It's awful, and was a horrible augur of things to come.

After Season 9. Seriously, check out the difference between Season 9 (which, I believe had the classic "Fat Homer" working-from-home episode), and Season 10. Night and fucking day. Season 10, if I recall, had this terrible episode which involved Bart owning a racehorse or something and then it went into some kind of weird leprechaun fantasy world. It sucked out loud. Season 11, I believe, boasted the infamous "Kill The Alligator And Run" episode, which may be the single worst entry in the entire series.
Every now and then, the show will come up with a good one; I started watching again this season after a couple of years on hiatus, and what I have seen has been relatively enjoyable enough, but ultimately forgettable. I mean, after 20 seasons, what more is there to do? I just wish they'd get back to the more "grounded" (realistic?) episodes that gave the show so much heart in the first place. Pipe dream, I know, at this point.

I believe that was the season where a lot of the writers went to work on Futurama, hence the drop in quality. But seriously, if you don't like it anymore, just stop watching it and STFU. The point remains that the Simpsons, while not as good as the first 9 seasons (9! - NINE seasons of genius is a lot for any show) it is still better than 80% of the other comedies on TV and 99.9% of anything Fox has ever aired. Would you rather it was canceled and we get an endless series of half-season abysmal fox sitcoms? Why does evry bit of entertainnment have to be a masterpiece tour de force, or it's not worth it for you nitwits?

The Simpsons and Family Guy. No one ever mentions American Dad, though, it's like Family Guy but without the manitees. I will always be a Simpsons fanboy, but I probably get the most enjoyment out of American Dad on Fox Sundays now.

I DID stop watching it. That's my fucking point. And I totally agree with you -- I own the DVDs of the first 9 seasons, and I love most all of those episodes. Very much so. The "Monorail" episode (Season 3 or 4?) still remains to this day one of the greatest half hours of television that has ever entered my eyeballs. And, um...you're not the only person who loves both The Simpsons and Family Guy.

American Dad made me laugh and Family Guy didn't. It was...amazing. I can't remember what episode it was. I just remember forgetting what time it was. Anywho, both of those shows make me laugh more often than the last 8 seasons of The Simpsons. They have no repeat value though. I remember it was "Hungry Hungry Homer" that got me questioning the writing. And then it was the rest of the 12th season. And then for the next 7-8 years I stopped watching it except in syndication. The movie had more hits than misses but film is too limited to give all of Springfield screentime. I remember the last 10 minutes of the movie with like 50 character cameos jammed in. Two more seasons of mediocrity doesn't affect me, really. I'll just watch something else. But seriously, they cancel King of the Hill and keep The Simpsons?

How do you know it's bad. Do you just get all your opinions from other snobs who probably don't watch the show either. If you want to watch "Castle" with Nathan "Kiss of Death" Fillon, be my guest. He even killed Buffy.

either killing Maude Flanders or when The Comic Book Store Guy was dating Principal Skinner's mom, which was when a lot of the side characters started to have their own episodes. Actually maybe it was when Barney became permanently sober?

Family Guy's best episode will never be funnier than The Simpsons best episode. On the flip side, The Simpsons worst episode would still be funnier than the worst Family Guy episode. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Let's get this straight right off the bat: In its heyday, 'The Simpsons' was the greatest half-hour comedy "skein" (ugh...fucking Variety) American television has ever produced. No show before or since can touch its golden years. It's our answer to the U.K.'s Monty Python.
But the beginning of the end of its greatness came in 1995, when the much-hyped "Who Shot Mr. Burns?" two-parter aired. I distinctly remember being disappointed by that episode...and then by most of the season that followed...and then the season after that.
And thus, this once-great program began a gradual, inexorable decline into unwatchable dreck. Family Guy may not be a patch on the Simpsons at its best, but my god...the worst Family Guy episode is funnier than any Simpsons episode of the past several years.
If you think The Simpsons is still funny, I just have to ask you--Have you watched Seasons 2-5? Were you around then? Do yourself a favor and buy those DVD sets (I did). Then see if you can watch it now.
It's not that these people suddenly lost all their talent. It's that they stopped being creatively invigorated by the program and its characters a very long time ago, and it shows. I won't watch another episode until series finale. They should have stopped a long, long, long time ago.

A-fucking-men to that one brother.<br><br>FAMILY GUY IS TRASH!<br><br>"Hey guys! Remember the time Seth MacFarlane ripped off the 'The Simpsons' and made 'Family Guy'? Heh-heh. Freakin Sweet!" -Any character on Family Guy

... Is an overused and quite often misused turn of phrase. It refers to the APEX of a series, the point where a show has gotten so fantastic, it can only go downhill. <p><p>In the instance that coined the phrase, once Fonzie waterski jumped over the shark, just starting a jukebox by hitting it with two 30-something teenagers on each arm wasn't going to cut it. <p><p>Likewise, when the guy and girl in any given series finally get together after years of "will they or won't they?" it makes great television, but the series has nowhere to go after that. <p><p>The point is, "jumping the shark" is not the moment a series begins to suck or the reason why it sucks, its actually the moment before it starts to suck.

This show would still probably be good. I can't be bothered to care anymore. The movie was great, but after season 16 I got tired of waiting for the 10 or so good eps each season since 13. Al Jean is a boring showrunner and probably doesn't motivate his writers to come up with anything good except the one ep a year they send to the Emmys to stay relevant.

There was a recent one that was about Evolution Vs. Creationism in schools. Evolution won of course but theres being correct and then there's being preachy. I get it, I agree, but stop wagging your finger at me please. This one felt like it was written by Lisa Simpson herself. Plus the ending was predictable and it simply wasn't funny. My other pick for the worst episode, the one where they look into the future and Lisa is President. This one was just mean-spirited to every single character. It kind of tears apart whatever good will there was for Bart becoming a supreme court justice.
I didn't mind the jockey episode or the pretzel one. But then again I like a little deranged humor every now and again.

...that I've seen anyway would have to be "Simpsons Christmas Stories." The Ricky Gervais episode is almost as bad, but holy fuck. Jesus. This is toxic shit. Exposure to "Simpsons Christmas Stories" can cause cancer. Your house plants will die. It's fucking awful.

... This is a subject I've spent far too much time contemplating. The seeds were planted as far back as season 5, in the episode "Secrets of a Successful Marriage." In this episode, two disappointing motifs first became apparent that would later come to epitomize the shows writing. <p><p>One is Homer going from an ignorant but otherwise dedicated husband to an outright jerkface who's disrespectful of his wife and everyone else, feigning remorse only when it's in his best interest. The other is the overuse of secondary characters, who are shoehorned into stories they have no business being in (Why is Moe attending a class on successful marriages when he's single, and how can he attend this class while teaching another one on self-defense and keep his bar running at the same time?)<p><p>At the time, this kind of episode was an oddity. Between this episode (the first stinker after "The Simpsons" really got cooking in the 2nd or 3rd season.) and the end of season 8, only about about two others are what I consider bad:<p><p>Season 7 - "Two Bad Neighbors" - George H.W. and Barbara Bush move in next door in a storyline that seems contrived as an excuse for getting guest stars, except that the former first couple don't actually voice themselves.<p><p>"Season 8- "Simpsoncalifragilisticexpiala(Annoyed Grunt)cious" - A Mary Poppins-ish magic nanny shows up (what?) and turns the Simpsons into the a happy, model family. 2 seconds after she leaves, they're back at each others throats. She returns, but this time the Simpsons are unresponsive to her charms and claim to be happier in a dysfunctional state. Marge is happy being unappreciated and having her hair fall out?<p><p>Season 9 is the closest to a definitive moment when the show began to really decline. This season was about 50-50 on quality, There were great episodes like "The City of New York vs. Homer Simpson," "Lisa the Skeptic," "Bart Carny" and "Girly Edition". But then such stinkers as "The Cartridge Family," "Trash of the Titans," and "The Principal and the Pauper". <p><p>The latter is often named as the THE moment the show turned rotten, while others name season 11's "Saddlesore Galactica" (the elf jockey one) as the culprit. Meanwhile the whole of season 10 was pretty mediocre. Homer's gradual disconnect from any kind of humanity had become complete by this point as he is now id without ego. Characters like Chief Wiggum, Ned Flanders, Krusty the Clown, and Ole' Gil are seen hanging around together when logically these people shouldn't really know each other (can anyone explain how all these characters plus Homer plus several others all wound up on a bus going to the Super Bowl?).<p><p>The majority of episodes from season 10 on play out like two or more unfinished story ideas stitched together with all the surgical prowess of Dr. Nick "Hey Everybody!" Riviera.<p><p>The only funny episodes that have come out since are the anthology episodes where Simpson characters play other people, like Bible-themed one or the one where Bart and Nelson played Huck Finn and Tom Sawyer.<p><p>I have a suggestion to show-runner Al Jean and writers of the show if they want to turn the show around. Move away from strictly telling stories about the Simpson family proper. You have somewhere in the ballpark of 400 episodes about these 5 people, and every aspect of them and their relationships with others has been examined to the point of exhaustion.<p><p You guys once batted around the idea of a "Simpsons" spin-off called "Springfield" that would follow the lives of the many different people who live there. Maybe Homer or Bart or Lisa would show up in the story, maybe they wouldn't. Just do this with the flagship show. Just cause its called "The Simpsons" doesn't mean they have to be in every episode! Think of "22 Short Films about Springfield". All the best parts of that episode didn't involve the Simpsons. One episode could be about Apu and another about Bumblebee Man or Skinner (between his relationships with his mother, Edna, Bart, and Superintendent Chalmers, Skinner could have a some very rich episodes that don't have to involve scenes at 742 Evergreen Terrace).<p><p>If the writers didn't feel compelled to write the principle cast into every episode and were allowed to let the secondary characters shine in stories written for them, I like to think their creative juices would begin to flow anew.<p><p>I don't think "The Simpsons" needs to be cancelled or put out of its misery, but I also disagree that awful "Simpsons" is better than 80-90% of television. This show seriously needs a shot in the arm and I hope it gets it cause when the show does finally end its run, I want it to end back on top.<p><p>(If you read this entire thing, good for you! I know I probably wouldn't have...)

I was very excited about hearing Seth Rogen writing an episode of The Simpsons. I would like to see a few people come on board like that. Now Seth approached the Simpsons. It should have been the other way around.
I would like to see the following do a guest writer of The Simpsons.
1. Ron Moore.
2. Kevin Smith - even though his last film sucked.
3. Geoff Johns.
4. Joe Hill - Halloween episode.
5. Jason Segal.
6. Judd Apatow.

You guys once batted around the idea of a "Simpsons" spin-off called "Springfield" that would follow the lives of the many different people who live there. Maybe Homer or Bart or Lisa would show up in the story, maybe they wouldn't. Just do this with the flagship show. Just cause its called "The Simpsons" doesn't mean they have to be in every episode! Think of "22 Short Films about Springfield". All the best parts of that episode didn't involve the Simpsons. One episode could be about Apu and another about Bumblebee Man or Skinner (between his relationships with his mother, Edna, Bart, and Superintendent Chalmers, Skinner could have a some very rich episodes that don't have to involve scenes at 742 Evergreen Terrace).<p><p>If the writers didn't feel compelled to write the principle cast into every episode and were allowed to let the secondary characters shine in stories written for them, I like to think their creative juices would begin to flow anew.<p><p>I don't think "The Simpsons" needs to be cancelled or put out of its misery, but I also disagree that awful "Simpsons" is better than 80-90% of television. This show seriously needs a shot in the arm and I hope it gets it cause when the show does finally end its run, I want it to end back on top.<p><p>(If you read this entire thing, good for you! I know I probably wouldn't have...)

Can't remember the episode name, but Marge ends up driving in a demolition derby. Her car stalls, and the other driver keeps hitting her repeatedly. Homer rushes to the announcers stand, grabs the mike and yells "Stop banging my wife!" I laughed for a week. Howzabout instead of posting about when the show started going downhill, we post our favorite moments...quit all the bitching, for crying out loud.

-has to be the story of Homer & Marge at the prom. It has my favourite Simpson's moment, which is just a line of dialogue where you don't even see the characters. It goes something like this:
Marge's father: "When that Simpson boy showed up he took years off my life."
Marge's mother:"Will you stop it, she went out with the good one."
It was kinda touching, how the father had the right instincts about Homer, whereas Patty, Selma and the Mother never cared for him ever, and favoured the sleazy Artie Ziff (damn him !)- it was deep character stuff !

"Don't like them, then NEITHER DO I! Get the hell outta here! You ever see a man say goodbye to a pair of shoes before?" <p>"Well, this one time..."<p><p>Thats from my fav episode, "You Only Move Twice."<p><p>Man I wish Albert Brooks would reprise Hank Scorpio...

Never was one...it's why I stopped watching THE SIMPSONS in favor of the Griffins. Sentimentality is comedic death.<p>
And at least they admitted their male lead was semi-retarded...I admire that level of honesty.

90% better some some of the other shite on TV at the moment. One of the funniest things that I have ever seen was the episode where Homer gets a gun. Perfect pastiche of American gun laws (do you want the king of england coming in here and pushing you around?!!) As long as there are things to parody, the simpsons will never run out of material.

Did I stutter, man? "Simpsons Christmas Stories"! It is extremely fucking hard to make something shittier than that. That is about as fucking low as you can go. People bitch about "Family Guy" but I've never seen them put out anything as bad as Grandpa Simpson and Mr. Burns having an aerial dogfight with Santa's sleigh and a reindeer. I would rather watch my dead grandparents hate-fuck than have to suffer through that fucking pile of shit ever again.
<p>Your argument does not hold water is what I mean to say.

Right after they magically turned into neocon propagandists, it got worse and worse. And even before that, when it was still funny, every show is basically 1 joke, repeated over and over and over again, and then Cartman says something in a funny voice. Thats it.

Not only are episodes now as good as early seasons, through the years, watching the Simpsons and other Sunday night programming decrease in quality around it, really highlighted how good KOTH really was. In my opinion, at least.

There's a distinct split between seasons 1-10 and 11-20. In the second half of the series run, I really feel like the series succumbed to the fact in animation, you have a limitless canvas to explore. And it really detached itself from what made it so endearing in the first place: a middle class family in a nowhere town with a plethora of quirky townspeople. When the series focused more on the quirky townspeople, it lost a little bit.
I won't say that even the bad episodes are better than most good episodes of anything else on TV, because that's just fan-boy posturing. But those 1st 10 seasons are something special.
By the way, all of you clamoring for a series reboot with the characters are older are forgetting one key thing: if the uninspired writers who have been writing for the last few seasons are at the helm for that, then what's the point? Bad begets bad, any way you slice it. Now, if you want to bring in the older writers who molded these characters in the first place to at least set a template, I could be a tad more interested. But they are still better off leaving it as is.
I don't want the series to die, even as it stumbles into its future. It's really akin to how successful it was to begin with that it's able to afford the new seasons. As long as its afforded airtime on FOX, there's a chance, albeit a slim one, that it can be rekindle the magic of the earlier seasons. And that's reason enough for me to cheer its renewal.

your bubble, but I always interpreted Marge's father's comment about Homer to be a negative one. "It took years off my life" meaning it was such a shock to him that his daughter might date someone like Homer that it pushed him that much closer to the grave. It always made me wonder if Marge marrying Homer isn't what led to her father's demise.

OK, how can anyone say Homer has gone from being dedicated dad to just a jerk? He was waaay worse in the earlier episodes, now he is more a lovable idiot than an angry jerk.
<p>
Also, different strokes because I just can't talk Simpsons with anyone who thinks "Monorail" is a top-notch episode. Those people probably liked the dreadful movie as well.
<p>
I will agree that the death of Maude Flanders was misbegotten and the worst episode ever of the Simpsons, but that was the same season as EIEID'oh, featuring Tomacco, one of my all-time favorite episodes.
<p>
I also loooved CBG dating Agnes Skinner, which another poster listed as one of the worst episodes.
<p>
I will say that the past few seasons haven't produced anything memorable, but it is still amusing and better than most TV. I like Family Guy but it is beyond rip-off. American Dad is often hilarious, but doesn't get much love.
<p>
Oh, the Bart and Lisa in High School could be amusing, but would be the death of the series, since they would certainly be unappealing.

download em and try to cull the three or four great episodes out of every season to make one super-season. Even the weakest seasons (I think probably 11/12) have a couple genuinely classic episodes. Hell, I think the "Left Below" ("Thank God, its Doomsday") episode from season 15 ranks among the best. But then youve got crap like "Saddleshore Galactica" "Large Marge" "Helter Shelter" "Srong arms of the Ma" etc... stuff that is really just painfully embarassing and often deeply disrespectful to the characters. I think the main difference between season 10 and 11 was the onset of this kind of unacceptable awfulness which is sort of shuffled in among the average and the great (which never quite left)

I didn't read all of that. I definitely agree with the preachyness factor but you are much too harsh on the earlier episodes you picked out. To me the Bush episode "Two bad neighbors?" was great. But if you don't like it you have to admit at least they didn't resort to "politics". Back then the writers knew they had no businesses putting politics in the Simpsons and didn't always put Lisa on a pedestal. Although I also agree though one of the bad things is the stupid celebrities who the show wraps the entire plot around. They then kiss their asses and are afraid to make fun of them. None of which happened in the Bush episode. Celebrity's actually don't always have to be self important obnoxious cunts either. It's about the bad writing as well. Krusty's comeback special episode used celebrities and to me it wasn't irritating at all. The hallapalooza episode was much more like what they do now. I'd say the sad thing is the Simpsons tries to be more like the shows that it it self influenced. By doing so it's like most of the characters have been replaced by pod people.

That show makes me laugh every week, and I hate Family Guy. Do people watch American Dad and hate it, or did they just watch it when it started, and assumed it hasn't changed? It's really good now. On Sundays I look forward to American Dad and King of the Hill (when it's on).

Tom Cruise guest stars and Lisa becomes a scientologist. They put Obama in every episode and he becomes a staple of the cast. More of lovable Homer's hilarious antics as he further devolves into Peter Griffin. They will also add try to subtly insult other shows they aren't as funny as anymore. O and Lisa complains about the environment and religion or eating meat or some shit.

I agree that guy was awesome, this supervillain who can be the most easygoing friend, you know that's actually not that far fetched, a lot of dictators are personally charming and really easygoing when they want to be.

<p>in the old episodes you got a lesson now and then but rarely was it in your face or preachy. There was the occasional political joke but it was usually subtle.</p> <p>They didn't try to take sides with their humor. It wasn't like South Park in the least. That wasn't necessary they were too clever for that. If there was an episode about something touchy the best were done respectfully.</p><p>Homer was sometimes a dick but it was usually done tastefully. And Marge was often the straight man. But now she almost always goes along with any stupid shit Homer comes up with. She certainly didn't get drunk with him! What the fuck?</p><p>Ok and the show jokes today consist of what? Gay marriage? Canada's health care? Venus and Serena Williams playing tennis? Arnold Schwarzenegger's career? Pot smoking? Burns kissing Smithers? Guantanamo bay? Don't say it's not. All of this was in the show.</p> <p>Also I really don't support Bush but I think it's inappropriate for the Simpsons to comment on him all the time and not in the spirit of what the show was.</p><p>Cheep shots like Homer calling him a "stupid monkey face" are really just fucking out of character not to mention have already been done to death and tasteless.</p> I'm sure lots of people like that shit but it's not my cup of tea. Not on the Simpsons anyway.

I laughed for days when he made jump from car to car and just tumbled down the road after stopping midair. Every now and again the show does something inspired with its guest stars. Mel Gibson remaking Mr. Smith goes to Washington, I'd pay to see that version actually, and the one a couple years ago with Tom Wolfe. "He's the author who's know for most excessive use of exclamation marks." Tom Wolfe: IT'S TRUE!!!!!!

More "out of nowhere" jokes and even a few quick-cut flashbacks. Homer getting stupider and stupider. At this point, Simpsons is more of a ripoff of FG than the other way around.
As for American Dad, it's better than the Simpsons is right now, and pretty good. Still, the show suffers because it doesn't actually go far enough. Stan should be more even more psycho, like "Brock Samson gets married and has kids." They've touched on that idea a few times (Stan once actually toyed with taking out Francine with a sniper rifle)(where it turned out his hippie daughter was really a CIA-programmed "dollhouse" style sleeper agent/assassin) but, more often and not, it's really just a sitcom where the dad happens to have a 'wacky' job working for a 'wacky' CIA.

I considered that, but his wife says "Will you stop it, She went out with the good one" meaning he's probably been going on about how he preferred Homer- and that is also what prompts Marge to realise She should've gone with Him.
At the risk of sounding like a sissy,("He's a sissy, get Him !") that episode is one of only two Simpson's eps that've made me crack a tear. The other is the Raven short, also from season two, which I thought was kinda sad.

I'm sorry but your interpretation makes no sense under even plain English. Marge's father was kvetching that the mere thought of his daughter dating a loser like Homer was enough to kill him. Marge's mother tried to calm him down by pointing out that Marge went with Ziff instead (the "good one," meaning the class validictorian). The irony, of course, being that the "good one" was a wannabe date rapist and Homer, despite being a little slow (this is before the character went 'full retard') was the boy with the good heart.

...since about 1999. Season nine was where the decline started to happen, and it quickly went completely downhill after that. To say it's a shell of its former self would be a massive understatement. And to hear Matt Groening say, "Oh, the show hasn't changed," makes me sick. Fuck you, Groening. I could put on an episode from the golden years (i.e. seasons 3 through 8) and an episode from today and the differences would be obvious to a three year old. Making excuses doesn't make your horrible show any better. I'll always love the show for its best years, and loathe what it's become.

He said "When that Simpson boy 'showed up'(meaning when he first saw him) it took years off his life" and his first impression of him was favourable, since he mistook him for being the reputable Artie Ziff. So it wouldn't make sense for him to put it like that afterward, yet be referring to Homer negatively.

It took years off his life because he knew that Marge was supposed to be going with Artie and then this big goof showed up whom he thought-at first-was Artie. The INITIAL shock of seeing the dopey Homer dating his daughter (or so he thought) nearly killed him. That wasn't a favorable impression at all.

(see http://tinyurl.com/9ru8ca if you have to remind yourself) ... which makes the fact that it's so meh now all the more saddening. It's never going to evolve or change (the only character who's developed even the slightest bit is Barney, and they ended up going back to the old Barney anyway), it's never going to introduce any major new characters, and it's already pumped out enough stories to go over the same ground numerous times. There are now exactly 4 plots - 1) The Simpsons go to an exotic location. Hijinks ensue, 2) The Simpsons meet a celebrity/wacky transient personality with a celebrity's voice. Hijinks ensue, 3) Bart buys an unusual animal. Hijinks ensue, and our favourite, 4) Homer does something dumb. Hijinks! (Marge and Lisa's continued existential angst is more of a motif than a storyline).
Let's not forget, that racehorse episode included a subplot in which Lisa writes a letter to President Bill Clinton. That's how long it's been. Please, people, admit it's now grossly and solely mercentary, and send it to rerun heaven where it belongs.

...of the racehorse episode. How'd they sneak "[chuckle] I'm a pretty poor president" past Groening and the libs on the writing staff? Or did Murdoch put his foot down and demand they include that scene?

It's always been really fucking irritating, and then they try to be "cute" and have her sing every chance they get. I could live with it when they were still funny, but now it really stands out.<p>
That, and WAY too many repetitions of the "Is it all over for Homer and Marge?" episodes...like I actually give a shit if a fat dumbass and his scratchy-voiced wife stay together. Make me laugh and leave my fucking heartstrings alone.

years ago. What we have is a situation like the last 2 seasons of M*A*S*H. It was painfully lame and unfunny. The shows are relegated now to soften family morals episodes with no edge whatsoever. They are milking this out way too long. They should have taken a cue from Seinfeld and ended the show back in 2002.

...while 10-20 (so far) have been passable to outright terrible. If the writers somehow snap out of their own comas and can breath new life into the series, we might have better than half odds that any given syndicated repeat will be a good one. If seasons 21-22 are more of the same, uninspired dreck (like the episode based on "Heavenly Creatures"? Really?), then its really time to pull the plug.<p><p> I know they still look like the people we fell in love with all those years ago, and sometimes they smile or blink in a way they makes them seem alive, but they are not, they are on life support. One of these days we need to disconnect the feeding tube and let them die with a modicum of dignity.