In this post I wanted to examine the ethics of magic in relation to the Karma (3 fold law)/ Christianity (an eye for an eye/ god's judgement) and (Sufi) intention.

Christianity states we live but one life. Jesus lived one life, he didn't reincarnate into another body. He came back as the Holy Ghost to die for our sins (if you believe that) and not to atone for them through Karma.

The law of Karma doesn't allow for our sins to be forgiven (unlike Christianity). With Karma our sins are inescapable and inevitable. They must be paid for in this life or in subsequent ones that follow. Thus Christianity and Karma are incomparable concepts.

In Christianity sin will create distance between you and god (you can go to hell from which there's no redemption) in the Hindu faith sin doesn't distance you from Brahman, instead you atone for your sins (through Karma) and move on.

It has been suggested that the concept of Karma was created to control the masses through fear. Therefor If I'm naughty I will be punished. Christianity works on the same premiss. If you are judged to be bad you will go to hell. So it could be argued that if you don't believe in either of these concepts they become invalid. This would mean that Karma's a 'self' fulfilling prophecy so if I refuse to accept the 3 fold law it cannot effect me because It has no power over me.

So to recap in Christianity god will judge you, with Karma the individual or "self" must decide if actions are good or bad, everything becomes about individual intention. If I do a binding love spell that goes against the law of free will (so against Karma) I could justify my intentions to "myself" by saying I'm in love, so my intentions are good thus the 3 fold law shouldn't apply to my actions.

In the Old Testament we have ''an eye for an eye'' this for me is perhaps more logical than the Karma 3 fold law as It allows for balance. Revenge isnt a particularly enlightened approach (even when justified) however I believe if it creates balance in the universe (and doesn't harm 3rd parties) it's acceptable. I just don't see how you could put something out into the universe that's either good or bad and get it back to the power of 3,it's just illogical.
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Most practitioners of magic will at some point do at least one spell that deep down they know they probably shouldn't but they will try to justify the decision to "themselves" by saying its for the greater good in an attempt to avoid bad Karma

So then we get to intention,Intention is inescapable. Whether you do or don't believe in Karma everything comes down to This. The one person you can't lie to is yourself right? Therefor at the end of the day it's perhaps more important to be able to live with yourself than to worry about whether your actions will incur bad Karma.

I believe that everything in the universe must balance. Good cannot exist without evil. There are angels and there are demons.
Finally if Karma is a method of manufactured control it must be possible to override it. For example practicioners chaos magic have suggest meditating to 'hack' into the brain and reset the law of karma to zero for darker magic.

Sometimes we do good, sometimes we're bad. I don't believe we get anything back to the power of three but I do believe in a cosmic balance sheet where everything's equal and all debts are paid in full.

I also believe that perhaps we can cheat Karma and get away with it if we so desire and if we can live with the consequences.

Yeshua died for are sins that's what the churches are led to teach that we go to hell from sin in reality we go to hell from lack of faith it states that god is aware of man sin if we were simply judged by our actions not one soul would even reach heaven we to hell when we sin n dgaf about what god thinks of it if we repent once a week & accually try not to sin god will alloe u to bare with him now if u repent n do it automatically believing you can simply repent again u will face judgement

The Three Fold Law is born of Wiccan belief, and is typically interpreted to mean that your actions will reap that which you put out into the world. Do good, you get three times the good back. Do bad, you get three times the bad back. It borrows somewhat from the concept of Karma, but is not itself Karma.

Karma is more of an interpretation of morality that might be considered parallel to physics. For ever action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Mar your spirit with untoward action, and this will obviously have repercussions.

If any such cosmic law exists that governs one's spirit, be it the three fold law or karma or divine judgement, then I don't imagine there is so much as a loophole as you suggest as much as an understanding of the influence of these "laws." If one understands how these forces influence us, one can then work to avoid the influence through misdirection, opposing action, and so on and so forth.

That being said, if one believes in such things, why bother looking for a loophole? God may judge you? Then live your life to his standards. Karma may result in a lowly birth? Well then, guess you should live your life better. The Three Fold Law is bringing unpleasantness back to you? Then perhaps you should be more pleasant to the world around you.

It's as simple as that. And the idea of devoting one's self to such a belief in morality being ruled by some such cosmic force only to seek to bend and manipulate it? Well, that just seems asinine.

awaketolong maybe there's a loophole and maybe there isn't. At the end of the day shouldn't everything come down to individual intention? Refusing to question religions and/ or social conventions is more detrimental to us than exploring alternative possibilities.

I have no problem with questioning. I should have made myself more clear.

My problem is more with choosing a belief system and then picking pieces of it that you wish to follow when it is convenient - a system of morality is rather bereft of morality if one is looking for loopholes for the sake of one's own whim.

I agree completely Awake. If you are going to follow a religion, follow the whole religion. If you aren't going to be Christian, or Wiccan, or Hindu, or whatever you want to follow then don't claim to be.

While I don't believe in what you do comes back to you three-fold, I do acknowledge that what you project out through your thoughts, words and actions comes back to you. Like attracts like.

Thank you both for your interesting comments. As you may have guessed I'm an eclectic pagan with a fondness for some aspects of Chaos magick however I consider myself to be open to learning from all religions and paths. For me magick doesn't have to be a religion it can just be a means to an end. For others like me there has to come a point where we try to evaluate our position with regard to practicing and exploring different areas of magick responsibly while evaluating any possible consequences we might incur.

The 3 fold law for me is illogical because it goes against balance which is the natural order of things. However I'm open to persuasion so if anyone has an argument in favour of it let me know.

The Old Testament ideal of 'an eye for an eye' resonates with me because it allows for cosmic balance. If my neighbour for example makes my life a misery I should be fully entitled to rectify the situation using magick thus creating balance in the universe.

Just to tweak your statement, the Universe seeks a state of balance. It makes the correction, not you. So, if someone does something to wrong you then they will draw some type of negitivity to themselves. Like attracrs like. You don't have to do a thing to make it happen.

When you are wronged and you do something back to that person you are establishing your own negative energy that you will have to deal with. If you project out positive energies that is what will be returned to you. This is the real reason for the teaching of "love thy enemy".

Shawn I value your opinion however I respectfully beg to differ. We are not all good as we are not all bad. To be balanced we must explore both sides of our nature. If the universe chooses to reward my good deeds and punish my misdemeanours then logically my account will balance.