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As far as I'm concerned, they hired Zack Snyder to make a Zack Snyder version of Superman. That's what he did. If they were dissatisfied with the box office and critical outcome, then they should have thanked Zack for his service, then moved on to someone else. You don't keep the guy on twice and then have him make the third movie, THEN fire him and ...

To try to be fair to WB, we don't know the whole story perhaps. Maybe they gave him marching orders and he didn't meet them. Maybe they were upfront with him, told him they were dissatisfied and that he could be fired, but he has one last chance to prove everyone wrong, but they told him they reserved the right to go another way if it doesn't turn out better.

Not to mention that in one of BTS footage it is clear that classic shirt ripping scene was also shot by Snyder

He was meant to complete the circle

I think Zack Snyder had the idea of when Superman comes back from the dead with his memories being in flux, he will need to go through familiar places and remind himself once and for all what it makes to be Superman. He regains Clark Kent with Lois and Martha, there was meant to be engagement ring plotline as was seen in the final trailer, and on the scout ship he was meant to regain Kal-El, because it was the place where he learned his origin and met Jor-El, also got his first costume.

Once he gathered his pieces back into one solid persona, he comes back like this:

So at this point I have literally no idea how the hell Zack Snyder's JL was "unwatchable" according to first rumors after test screenings and I have a feeling they made theatrical JL bad on purpose in order for people to remember Zack Snyder as a bad influence on DCEU and move away from him as far as possible. That's just cruel to do such a thing in the process of production of the series he dedicated almost 10 years of his life to.

It would have at least been a full arc. Even if JL still underperformed and that was also it for Snyder's DC EU, at least we would have had a fully realized trillogy for Superman, then they could have just done MOS 2 with a different director.

It certainly feels like WB made damn sure this thing flopped and tie it to Snyder because they wanted to cover their butts. I mean, it's likely it still would have underperformed if Snyder's movie was released, but what if it had actually done better or been a small hit? Were they afraid that then it would have been perceived harder to justify kicking out Snyder if WW and JL were back to back hits, seeing as even MOS and BvS in pure numbers were successful? I guess we'll never really know, but it looks like after a certain point WB was more invested in this movie's failure than success.

When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

To try to be fair to WB, we don't know the whole story perhaps. Maybe they gave him marching orders and he didn't meet them. Maybe they were upfront with him, told him they were dissatisfied and that he could be fired, but he has one last chance to prove everyone wrong, but they told him they reserved the right to go another way if it doesn't turn out better.

All well and good, but by all accounts now, JL was basically locked and finished with maybe some reshoots left and some spfx to complete. That's far too late In the game to give Snyder " one last chance". It's financially irresponsible to have a guy you are disatisfied with finish a movie and then fire him, give the film to someone else and then basically refilm what amounts to roughly half of the movie that was put out. That's just stupid. You make a decision and stick to it. You fire the guy and bring someone else on before you start filming, or you let the guy make and finish his damn movie and whatever happens happens.if it flops, pivot away and move on, if it does well ..Well if Snyder was so toxic, they still could have pivoted away. They were already doing just that. Why not just let Snyder finish his movie and draw a line under MOS, BvS and JL as mostly it's own thing and then move on?

If it actually what was told to us, I.e. it was still Snyder's picture with reshoots mutually agreed on by Snyder and Whedon and overseen by Whedon, then it wouldn't have been so bad, but that's not what happened at all.

It's just a big mess that could have been avoided multiple times but they didn't, and frankly, everyone lost. Snyder for having his time wasted on a movie WB had no intentions to put out, Whedon for being put in the position of frankensteing a movie that he will unfairly get all the blame for from an already skeptical fan base, the actors who had their hard work on Snyder's version left in the garbage, the fans of MOS and BvS who will likely never see that story completed, and everyone else who deserves a good JL movie and got something that was merely passable to mediocre when it had the potential with a little more forethought and planning, to be something great. I mean, 300-350 million plus and that's the best they could do?? It's so frustrating and the more info that comes out, the more annoyed and frankly angry I get at the pure incompetence at work within the walls of Weasel Brothers.

Last edited by manofsteel1979; 02-13-2018 at 03:18 PM.

When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

You fire the guy and bring someone else on before you start filming, or you let the guy make and finish his damn movie and whatever happens happens.if it flops, pivot away and move on, if it does well

I think, all in all, WB at least owed Snyder to fully and completely finish his film (unimpeded). We agree in so far as that.

Now, I don't agree with you that WB then needed to release Snyder's cut in the theater, I think they were fair in saying, "No, we'll release our favored version, it's really our film, that's our right." But I think they owed him the ability to fully and completely finish it and at least release it somewhere down the road (like on DVD).

All well and good, but by all accounts now, JL was basically locked and finished with maybe some reshoots left and some spfx to complete. That's far too late In the game to give Snyder " one last chance". It's financially irresponsible to have a guy you are disatisfied with finish a movie and then fire him, give the film to someone else and then basically refilm what amounts to roughly half of the movie that was put out. That's just stupid. You make a decision and stick to it. You fire the guy and bring someone else on before you start filming, or you let the guy make and finish his damn movie and whatever happens happens.if it flops, pivot away and move on, if it does well ..Well if Snyder was so toxic, they still could have pivoted away. They were already doing just that. Why not just let Snyder finish his movie and draw a line under MOS, BvS and JL as mostly it's own thing and then move on?

If it actually what was told to us, I.e. it was still Snyder's picture with reshoots mutually agreed on by Snyder and Whedon and overseen by Whedon, then it wouldn't have been so bad, but that's not what happened at all.

It's just a big mess that could have been avoided multiple times but they didn't, and frankly, everyone lost. Snyder for having his time wasted on a movie WB had no intentions to put out, Whedon for being put in the position of frankensteing a movie that he will unfairly get all the blame for from an already skeptical fan base, the actors who had their hard work on Snyder's version left in the garbage, the fans of MOS and BvS who will likely never see that story completed, and everyone else who deserves a good JL movie and got something that was merely passable to mediocre when it had the potential with a little more forethought and planning, to be something great. I mean, 300-350 million plus and that's the best they could do?? It's so frustrating and the more info that comes out, the more annoyed and frankly angry I get at the pure incompetence at work within the walls of Weasel Brothers.

This. They hesitated and waffled right in the middle or more towards the end. Instead of finishing the movie as it was intended to be or scrapping the whole thing early on and starting over, they gave us two visions blurred together. And not even two visions. What we got was a vision (Snyder's) layered over with what they thought the audience wanted. Now it may well be that a lot of fans did want something lighter but something with vision still. Justice League reminds me of that line Patrick Warburton delivered as Agent T in "Men in Black 2" where he basically says in response to a request for his opinion, "Was that the right answer? Was that what you wanted to hear?"
"Justice League" very much comes across as trying to give what it thinks the audience wants but with no vision behind it except that core thing of superficially giving the audience what they think it wants.

Superman was a beacon to the world. He didnít just save people, he made them see the best part of themselves.

Truth the only people angered by Snyder's dismissal are Snyder Fans and Comic Fans who wanted to see more Green Lanterns, The Black Suit, and Darkseid. From all reports for as bad as Justice League did the General Audience responded most positively to the added levity brought on by Whedon. The WB's biggest WTF was not holding the film for a few months to allow the CGI be better outside of that honestly I think WB made the right call dumping Snyder I get some wonder why even put him on Justice League if they were going to dump but remember they only had the response to BvS a week or so before production was set to beginning on Justice League. I will say using his daughter's tragic death as the reason for him leaving when in truth they were firing him makes me angry and disgusted. Simply because it makes you realize when they heard about this man's families tragedy they thought of how to use it to their advantage and that is disgusting on ever level as a human being.

I think, all in all, WB at least owed Snyder to fully and completely finish his film (unimpeded). We agree in so far as that.

Now, I don't agree with you that WB then needed to release Snyder's cut in the theater, I think they were fair in saying, "No, we'll release our favored version, it's really our film, that's our right." But I think they owed him the ability to fully and completely finish it and at least release it down the road (like on DVD).

We finally got the Donner cut. Hopefully, we'll get the Snyder cut without taking 25 years for it to happen.

Superman was a beacon to the world. He didnít just save people, he made them see the best part of themselves.

There was no plan. Goyer had an idea for a Superman movie, Nolan told WB about it and they decided to launch a cinematic Universe off of that. The odds were against it right from the start.

What you think everyone plans these things? No it's part luck and part Building off what works. One of the Reason's Superman in these movies hasn't really hit is cause he has NOTHING backing him up. What, you think Batman 89 and Returns would have had the staying power they did had not Batman the animated Series not come out not long after? Where's the Superman series to build good will for the character after MoS? To show that he was actually doing the job in the year and a half before BvS. Hell Spiderman had a series after the Tobie Maguire movie that took place in universe. The Batman started up after Begins yet what do we get after MoS? More Batman. The guy got zero promotion between the movies. Hell Batman got an Anime between Begins and Dark Knight WTF. Supes is an after thought at best at Warners, they've proved this time and again yet we still come back and beg like a dog looking for table scraps. I was in B&N the other day and there is a Book about the Golden Age of DC comics on the self who's on the front cover? Batman! The back cover being held down by the Man of Steel himself. They relegate the character that put them on the map to the Back Cover. Says alot.

Truth the only people angered by Snyder's dismissal are Snyder Fans and Comic Fans who wanted to see more Green Lanterns, The Black Suit, and Darkseid. From all reports for as bad as Justice League did the General Audience responded most positively to the added levity brought on by Whedon. The WB's biggest WTF was not holding the film for a few months to allow the CGI be better outside of that honestly I think WB made the right call dumping Snyder I get some wonder why even put him on Justice League if they were going to dump but remember they only had the response to BvS a week or so before production was set to beginning on Justice League. I will say using his daughter's tragic death as the reason for him leaving when in truth they were firing him makes me angry and disgusted. Simply because it makes you realize when they heard about this man's families tragedy they thought of how to use it to their advantage and that is disgusting on ever level as a human being.

I think that last part is the worst thing about all of this. They didn't have the guts to admit they were hijacking the movie, so they used his personal tragedy to smooth it all over and sell the narrative that "this is still Zack Snyder's movie, honest!" When that wasn't the case.

The issue is not that they fired Snyder, but when and how they did it. Once the decision to keep Snyder was made, then they should have kept Snyder and lived with the results, especially since they had already decided that JL was going to be the end of his direct involvement in the DCEU and they were moving on regardless.End of story.

Last edited by manofsteel1979; 02-13-2018 at 04:17 PM.

When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

The plans for Darkseid and the Knightmare future were discarded, so the scene had to be removed.

Btw, this is the context of the sequence with Darkseid:

"preparing Superman body for the ship is Snyder.

- deleted scene - Cyborg having a premonition during his countdown. During the count of 'one' he starts to see things of possibly future events such as the end of the League, knightmare world and more importantly Darkseid."

I think that last part is the worst thing about all of this. They didn't have the guts to admit they were hijacking the movie, so they used his personal tragedy to smooth it all over and sell the narrative that "this is still Zack Snyder's movie, honest!" When that wasn't the case.

The issue is not that they fired Snyder, but when and how they did it. Once the decision to keep Snyder was made, then they should have kept Snyder and lived with the results, especially since they had already decided that JL was going to be the end of his direct involvement in the DCEU and they were moving on regardless.End of story.

I agree with this also while not a Snyder fan I think many of his films are ok but I'm not a fan I will say the worse thing to happen to BvS was the WB hacking it apart for the theatrical cut and I think the film would had been at least better received if the Ultimate Cut was released in theaters. While I think going forward without Snyder was the right decision for the DCEU as a whole. I also sadly feel Snyder got to much blame for the early stumbles of the DCEU when WB deserves much more of the blame.