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I have a hard time seeing how anyone would fight for someone that doesn't want to be with them. However, with that said, I have incredible respect for those that move past it, heal and restore their marriages. But... If you notice, the ones that do so have a spouse w/a common behavior... They are incredibly remorseful and sorry. The LBS didn't sit and wait to be considered attractive again. They acted, on their own path, and didn't ride the roller coaster.

SM, your original postings were very angry and laced with control over your W.

You appear to me to have worked through much of that, although it does appear you still have some work to do in that regard.

OTOH, it is OK to be angry and vent here, of course. There are things we need to own, as our responsibility in the sitch... and then there's the projections, untruths, and re-written history of the WAS that we have no reason to own, nor even accept... but, we should validate... as untrue as they may be, they ARE (take this on the surface, not the cause) feeling the way they do... right or wrong...

That being said, my feet remain planted firmly in the middle...

Please be careful not to backslide into thoughts and behaviours that would attempt to control or manipulate your W, or be punitive... these things you HAVE done in the past...

Perhaps you may not... I am simply putting this out there...

Finish that letter... send it... don't let your current negative feelings affect the content and context of the intention of the letter... do it BEFORE the chat...

And BELIEVE and BEHAVE as you wrote...

Because the primary way to affect your R is to change yourself...

Keep the changes going and don't backslide because you feel slighted or you begin to feel you need to blame your W...

Ok thank you all for your comments. I don't have the time to respond to it all but I will take everything into consideration. I know I need to not backslide or be controlling. I will post later my results of my conversation. I try to be totally honest on this forum with you all but I will admit that I know I will get the proverbial 2x4 even though in my mind I have already given it to myself. I guess that part of the deal.

Anyway thanks for the help. Its always nice to be able to have such a experienced group to bounce my situation off. I almost wish this was a chat room or video conference type deal because it is so hard to type everything and also get the tone that is really being felt. Wish me luck.

I have a hard time seeing how anyone would fight for someone that doesn't want to be with them. However, with that said, I have incredible respect for those that move past it, heal and restore their marriages. But... If you notice, the ones that do so have a spouse w/a common behavior... They are incredibly remorseful and sorry. The LBS didn't sit and wait to be considered attractive again. They acted, on their own path, and didn't ride the roller coaster.

This has been my observation as well. Tremendously so.

Starsky

This ^^^

SM, you do need to draw some boundaries. When your w just takes for granted that you will dance to her tune, soccer, running, whatever, she is treating you like an on-call babysitter. Can you imagine what SHE would do if you did that to her?Just say, "Oh, w, that just doesn't work for me. You will have to make other arrangements." Will she "get mad?" Maybe. So what? You are not her doormat, nor do you exist solely to subsidize her lifestyle. She may respect you a little bit if you stood up to her. Women do NOT respect a doormat. It makes us sick! Even though we may show some anger at not getting our own way, we have respect for a strong man, not one we can boss around. If you believe nothing else, please believe this!Strong men make us feel safe. Weak men are not at all attractive.You don't have to be a dick about it, just, "Sorry, that doesn't work for me. You will have to make other arrangements."

Ok, well the conversation was had. She wanted to meet at a park so our S could play but that ended up just being a distraction most of the time as he was dragging us both to go down the slide or play soccer with him.

W: She said that she thinks that she wants to go ahead with the papers as is. Me: I said ok and ask why she said that part of her wants to work on it and why. W: She said that she doesn't want to work on it for the wrong reasons like finances or missing my family.Me: I said I agree you should not do it for those reasons.W: I know we have been good friends lately but I just don't know if there is anymore than that.Me: I agree we have been good friends of lately. Would you like to explore that at all?W: I'm not sure, I just don't think I want to put myself in that situation.The conversation is very broken up as we are trying to play with my S and have this conversation.Me: Well I know and have learned that I have been controlling and emotionally neglectful. What exactly don't you want to get back into or could you explain that to me (I can't remember the exact words I said but something like that).W: Exactly that. I don't want to be in that situation of control again.Me: I have learned a lot about my control problem and agree that I did control many things in our marriage like finances and time.(I said other examples of this)W: Thats why I hid purchases from you.Me: I understand that.W: You never showed appreciation for my cooking and always complained about me buying things to cook. Me: I agree I didn't show the amount of appreciation I should have. I really do like your cooking. This stems back to the control issue of money as well. (I will say that we were trying to save money to move and have her be a stay home W during this time. I didn't say that of course).W: I love cooking and enjoy doing it for people. You just never seemed to appreciate it.Me: I apologize and should have showed my appreciation.W: I never felt support in running either. In face I had a buddy at work come to one of my races which I know is creepy and I never told you that but I wish you would have showed up to it.Me: I know I should have supported you more in running. I will say that when the races were early it makes it hard make with our son.W: I know that but you could of made it to the race that was the multi-leg race.Me: True I should have.W: I know people think that I just want to hang out with my friends and party but that is not true and I only hang out with them once a month.Me: I don't think that and really don't know what you do.W: Since I have moved into my place by myself it has been lonely at time but I have been happy not being told what to do or worry about that.Me: I can understand that and I have been happy as well. I know I have a control issue and have discussed with my counselor as well as my sister (my BIL and sister had a separation that they worked through, control issue on my sisters part and issues on my BIL part) about my control issue. I know telling you this is just words of me saying I have recognized my control issue but I can only tell that I have for now and this was going to be part of my letter to you. I would like to try and show you but that is up to you. I know my family has a control issue and I don't want to be like that. It bothers me when I see it. This is how BIL and sister had to deal with in their marriage issues (we know quite a bit about their issues they had).W: I know your other sister's husband is able to deal with it and is ok but that is not me and I don't like it.Me: I agree, I don't like it either and it bothers me as well. I don't want to be like that and my recent vacation with them showed me how it was again and it bothers me.At this point our S is getting very fussy because it is his nap time and so she says that she will bring drive back to the house to finish the conversation after we put him down for a nap. we eventually get him down and continue our conversation.Me: I know that I have had a control issue that I think is the steam of my problems that I have had in our relationship. I can only say that I know that and have learned that through this experience. I know I can only say this to you as I unable to show you but I am aware of my problem. I wanted to share this with you for sometime but have been unable to. I think this is a product of my environment growing up as I did live in a controlling environment and I see how it has affected my siblings. I don't want to be that person not matter how this turns out.W: I know I have my communication issues as well and other things to work on as well.Me: I think both of us are have these issues from our raising.W: I agree completely.Me: I would like to be give this a try to show you which I know may sound superficial. I don't want to control you or pressure you. This is your decision as it is mine. I'm not sure what the first step would be if we did work on this but I would like us to make a decision and take the first step if you decide. I appreciate you talking to me and setting this up.W: I appreciate you talking as well. I will think about what we have talked about and let you know.

We talked about some logistics for the week with our S and then she left. This is not all the exact words and things from the conversation but the bulk of it. I posted honestly what was said. Please give your feedback, the good and the bad. I will try to take it in stride .