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Websleuths News

Join Websleuths Radio for the final discussion of THE KILLING SEASON
with Josh Zemam, Rachel Mills and special guests including Bob Kolker author of Lost Girls

PDI and The Abuse?

I'm currently listening to Keith Ablow's - Inside the Mind of Scott Peterson as an MP3. Here is the promotional text:

The highly publicized Scott Peterson murder case captivated a public hungry for the answer to one question: Why would a man with no known history of violent crime or mental illness and with a pretty wife about to give birth brutally murder her and his unborn son? Forensic psychiatrist Keith Ablow's national media appearances, including a groundbreaking interview on Oprah, resulted in enormous public response, saying that his theories about the spawning of a killer inside Peterson were the first that made sense to them. Members of Scott's and Laci's families have also stated that his comments were the first that helped them understand what might have happened inside Scott's mind. Inside the Mind of Scott Peterson takes readers into the psyche of a killer, exploring:

How Scott Peterson's empathy for others was shattered by a three-generation “bloodline” of childhood loss and abandonment. Why an addiction to sex took root in Peterson's psyche. Why Peterson's meeting Amber Frey while his wife was pregnant triggered the “perfect” psychological storm. Clues to Peterson's guilt in his interviews with Gloria Gomez and Diane Sawyer. What Peterson was probably thinking as he listened to testimony in court and received his death sentence. Why Peterson could kill again, if released
Using contacts at the FBI, and hiring private investigators and researchers, Keith Ablow delves deeply into Scott Peterson's life story to answer the question: How did an all-American boy turn into a ruthless killer?

I've read some of his other books, which although a good read, appear formulaic. In the Scott Peterson book, imo, he overuses metaphor. Describing Scott Peterson as a psychological cadaver then continues to repeat this using varying metaphors and similes which I found annoying.

The reason I'm mentioning this is that when Ablow is recounting Scott Peterson's mother's biography telling how, at the age of 2, she is placed in an orphanage run by Roman Catholic nuns called the Nazareth House.

Ablow describes this orphange as a cesspit of abuse. With female children being particularly at risk, the nuns would farm the girls out to male priests to accomplish tasks, but end up being abused. Then when this was discovered the girl would be sent for counselling to, yet another catholic priest, whereupon the abuse would continue.

Then Ablow mentions, it was not only the male priests who were abusive. The nuns were also abusive, who on occassion would digitally molest some of the girls.

That struck me, when I thought back to Coroner Meyer's verbatim remarks that there was evidence of sexual contact and digital penetration

I just wonder if, as many already suspect, there is more to Patsy's persona and her obsession with beauty pageants?

I'm currently listening to Keith Ablow's - Inside the Mind of Scott Peterson as an MP3. Here is the promotional text:

The highly publicized Scott Peterson murder case captivated a public hungry for the answer to one question: Why would a man with no known history of violent crime or mental illness and with a pretty wife about to give birth brutally murder her and his unborn son? Forensic psychiatrist Keith Ablow's national media appearances, including a groundbreaking interview on Oprah, resulted in enormous public response, saying that his theories about the spawning of a killer inside Peterson were the first that made sense to them. Members of Scott's and Laci's families have also stated that his comments were the first that helped them understand what might have happened inside Scott's mind. Inside the Mind of Scott Peterson takes readers into the psyche of a killer, exploring:

How Scott Peterson's empathy for others was shattered by a three-generation “bloodline” of childhood loss and abandonment. Why an addiction to sex took root in Peterson's psyche. Why Peterson's meeting Amber Frey while his wife was pregnant triggered the “perfect” psychological storm. Clues to Peterson's guilt in his interviews with Gloria Gomez and Diane Sawyer. What Peterson was probably thinking as he listened to testimony in court and received his death sentence. Why Peterson could kill again, if released
Using contacts at the FBI, and hiring private investigators and researchers, Keith Ablow delves deeply into Scott Peterson's life story to answer the question: How did an all-American boy turn into a ruthless killer?

I've read some of his other books, which although a good read, appear formulaic. In the Scott Peterson book, imo, he overuses metaphor. Describing Scott Peterson as a psychological cadaver then continues to repeat this using varying metaphors and similes which I found annoying.

The reason I'm mentioning this is that when Ablow is recounting Scott Peterson's mother's biography telling how, at the age of 2, she is placed in an orphanage run by Roman Catholic nuns called the Nazareth House.

Ablow describes this orphange as a cesspit of abuse. With female children being particularly at risk, the nuns would farm the girls out to male priests to accomplish tasks, but end up being abused. Then when this was discovered the girl would be sent for counselling to, yet another catholic priest, whereupon the abuse would continue.

I am sure you realize that SP was given permission by Anne Bird to live with her, and her husband, after Laci, the mother with child, was reported missing.

Ironically, Anne's home, although located high and off in the distance, overlooked the Bay where the bodies of Laci and Connor surfaced. And Scott knew it the entire time he had permission to live there. His family was just below the hills lush with trees, and beyond, in the Bay.

Absolutely based solely on SPs behavior after his expectant, with Connor, wife went missing, Anne Bird, SPs orphaned sister, determines Scott to be guilty of fatally harming his beautiful Laci and Connor.

To feel rules do not apply to them because they are so much more beautiful and brilliant, more talented, more wealthy, [more religious] than the rest of us not so deserving creatures; therefore, they are special; hence, above reproach, is the typical sociopathic behavior.

The bad ones find a solution to their problem and to he!! with how it makes the rest of the world stop and tremble.

Now that you mention it, there are at least two times on stage that there is noticeable padding or puffiness in her chest area but not so much to appear gaudy or outrageous. In one instance, she models the black and white Channel inspired dress with lovely matching wide brimmed hat. Definitely lightly enhanced in the bosom area. Surely, unbeknownst to JonBenét. Notice the oversized earrings, too, on this six-year-old little girl in most shots. About six costumes have her neck covered.

I've held the notion that it was Patsy doing the molesting until the past couple of months when some clues regarding JR began hitching to other clues and clicking together in a funny little way that a father-daughter incestuous relationship seemed quite likely and highly probable. So, why did so many give JR a pass?

Burke did not erode his sister's hymen and enlarge her vaginal opening to one twice its normal size.

Now that you mention it, there are at least two times on stage that there is noticeable padding or puffiness in her chest area but not so much to appear gaudy or outrageous. In one instance, she models the black and white Channel inspired dress with lovely matching wide brimmed hat. Definitely lightly enhanced in the bosom area. Surely, unbeknownst to JonBenét. Notice the oversized earrings, too, on this six-year-old little girl in most shots. About six costumes have her neck covered.

I've held the notion that it was Patsy doing the molesting until the past couple of months when some clues regarding JR began hitching to other clues and clicking together in a funny little way that a father-daughter incestuous relationship seemed quite likely and highly probable. So, why did so many give JR a pass?
Burke did not erode his sister's hymen and enlarge her vaginal opening to one twice its normal size.

OMHO

DeDee,
Well there is no smoking gun. We know from the Ramsey retractions, redrafting and amending of their version of events, that they were all involved in the death and subsequent staging of the wine-cellar crime-scene.

All three R's are linked to the wine-cellar via forensic evidence, so it is difficult to pin it all on one person.

This does not exclude the idea that JonBenet may have been abused by all her relatives, but in a different manner by each one.

As a psychological theory I like PDI, as a conspiracy theory I like BDI, and as a Crime Drama theory JDI.

Sometimes I think what was left behind undisturbed might be a clue as to who molested JonBenet, e.g. breakfast bar, or JonBenet's bedroom?

Patsy was of her time, all the costumes she hand picked for JonBenet reflect her sense of fashion, similarly for the videos JonBenet had to watch - child starlets wowing the masses with their natural talents.

Now that you mention it, there are at least two times on stage that there is noticeable padding or puffiness in her chest area but not so much to appear gaudy or outrageous. In one instance, she models the black and white Channel inspired dress with lovely matching wide brimmed hat. Definitely lightly enhanced in the bosom area. Surely, unbeknownst to JonBenét. Notice the oversized earrings, too, on this six-year-old little girl in most shots. About six costumes have her neck covered.

I've held the notion that it was Patsy doing the molesting until the past couple of months when some clues regarding JR began hitching to other clues and clicking together in a funny little way that a father-daughter incestuous relationship seemed quite likely and highly probable. So, why did so many give JR a pass?

Burke did not erode his sister's hymen and enlarge her vaginal opening to one twice its normal size.

OMHO

ITA. IMO, Patsy was a "groomer" of JB. My personal theory includes JB becoming an important "project" for Ramsey use within their behind-closed-doors lifestyle.

Patsy had begun to recognize JB was involved with her husband, and while she would have turned a blind eye to other activities involving JB, she could not or would not stand for JB to become her surrogate to John.

The escalating medical issues JB demonstrated as the holidays were arriving cemented PR's determination to keep JB away from JR, however she must do it, if she was to have any peace until she was no longer around to remain JR's only love. PR knew, as did JR, the ovarian cancer was waiting in the wings.

PR was no dummy, and as JB began to get more clingy to her mother while also being more contrary to Patsy's requests, and continued to share her 'secrets' not only with her brother, but about the special Santa visit with others, PR knew she was losing ground in keeping JB and JR separated, IMO.

I also suspect the bracelet she bought for JB was meant to become an everlasting memento of the importance that Christmas held for them all.

DeDee,
Well there is no smoking gun. We know from the Ramsey retractions, redrafting and amending of their version of events, that they were all involved in the death and subsequent staging of the wine-cellar crime-scene.

All three R's are linked to the wine-cellar via forensic evidence, so it is difficult to pin it all on one person.

This does not exclude the idea that JonBenet may have been abused by all her relatives, but in a different manner by each one.

As a psychological theory I like PDI, as a conspiracy theory I like BDI, and as a Crime Drama theory JDI.

Sometimes I think what was left behind undisturbed might be a clue as to who molested JonBenet, e.g. breakfast bar, or JonBenet's bedroom?

Patsy was of her time, all the costumes she hand picked for JonBenet reflect her sense of fashion, similarly for the videos JonBenet had to watch - child starlets wowing the masses with their natural talents.

.

There is no smoking gun. That's why details are important.

BRs involvement in the basement CS is only via tDNA on a nightgown she wore two days earlier. Correct? Can you refresh me on how else BR is involved in the basement activities?

As a psychological theory I like PDI, as a conspiracy theory I like BDI, and as a Crime Drama theory JDI.

You got that right!

Please. Not the whole family. This child did not stand a chance at a healthy adulthood with family members pawing all over her and messing with her mind and body.

This is something that I have never understood:

Why would Patsy insist the pineapple set-up was not hers? The bowl held her prints and yet she still denied it, by saying, "Right. I did not feed JonBenet pineapple. OK? So I don't know how it got in her stomach. And where this bowl of pineapple came from. I can't recall putting that there."

ITA. IMO, Patsy was a "groomer" of JB. My personal theory includes JB becoming an important "project" for Ramsey use within their behind-closed-doors lifestyle.

Patsy had begun to recognize JB was involved with her husband, and while she would have turned a blind eye to other activities involving JB, she could not or would not stand for JB to become her surrogate to John.

The escalating medical issues JB demonstrated as the holidays were arriving cemented PR's determination to keep JB away from JR, however she must do it, if she was to have any peace until she was no longer around to remain JR's only love. PR knew, as did JR, the ovarian cancer was waiting in the wings.

PR was no dummy, and as JB began to get more clingy to her mother while also being more contrary to Patsy's requests, and continued to share her 'secrets' not only with her brother, but about the special Santa visit with others, PR knew she was losing ground in keeping JB and JR separated, IMO.

I also suspect the bracelet she bought for JB was meant to become an everlasting memento of the importance that Christmas held for them all.

The truth found in your words makes me feel ill.

I cannot imagine grooming a young child for my sexual benefit much less for me and the father and the child to be involved together. It is so unnatural.

Are you suggesting the special Santa visit was likely going to be with JR on Christmas night?

Twenty seven visits in two years to the pediatrician, Dr. Beuf, was far too many for a disease-free, non-handicapped child. I found it interesting that in one of JonBenét's pageant interviews she tells the emcee that she wants to be a doctor or a nurse when she grows up so she can help people. The emcee asks JonBenét what type doctor would she like to become and she answers: "A pediatrician."

midwest mama, I detect premeditation in numerous items affiliated with the CS, including, but not limited to, the purchase of the size 12s. Ditto for the jacket that matched PWs. The gold ID bracelet and My Twinn doll fall into that same category as does decorating at Christmas 1996 with the color purple. In her mind, JonBenét was already dead.

I am sure you realize that SP was given permission by Anne Bird to live with her, and her husband, after Laci, the mother with child, was reported missing.

Ironically, Anne's home, although located high and off in the distance, overlooked the Bay where the bodies of Laci and Connor surfaced. And Scott knew it the entire time he had permission to live there. His family was just below the hills lush with trees, and beyond, in the Bay.

Absolutely based solely on SPs behavior after his expectant, with Connor, wife went missing, Anne Bird, SPs orphaned sister, determines Scott to be guilty of fatally harming his beautiful Laci and Connor.

To feel rules do not apply to them because they are so much more beautiful and brilliant, more talented, more wealthy, [more religious] than the rest of us not so deserving creatures; therefore, they are special; hence, above reproach, is the typical sociopathic behavior.

The bad ones find a solution to their problem and to he!! with how it makes the rest of the world stop and tremble.

I read Bird's book and Crier's book. To be honest, I was looking for the reason I was so convinced Peterson was guilty.
Because the evidence wasn't really there.

I remember when the case went to the jury and someone on Court TV, or whatever they were calling themselves then, asked Wecht and Baden what what they thought the verdict will be. I got the shock of my life when Wecht started saying there was no actual evidence of murder, just a death. And he was right!

So I shut off the TV and started thinking the case through. It's so weird...I knew he was guilty but I couldn't find anything in the testimony that really said murder except his actions after the crime, specifically leaking oil on the tarp Laci was probably transported with. To this day I still don't have a theory for how she died. Rebecca has shown me it didn't have to be limited to "soft" murder methods.

Crier's book was good for the criminal investigation, Bird's was good for insight. I've posted before that Fleet White's reaction to John reminds me of a similar reaction I had when my niece lied to a cop. I still don't know if it was what she said, how she said or what...but I knew she was lying. It's the same with Anne Bird, none of her book is about actual evidence. It's about instinct.

*On a side note I also found it interesting how many people Peterson rubbed the wrong way. It's almost like people had a gut, or visceral, reaction to him. Bird recounts a lot of those, especially after the murder. I trust my gut much more now....especially when it's screaming "bad news!" at me when I meet someone*

I cannot imagine grooming a young child for my sexual benefit much less for me and the father and the child to be involved together. It is so unnatural.

Are you suggesting the special Santa visit was likely going to be with JR on Christmas night?

Twenty seven visits in two years to the pediatrician, Dr. Beuf, was far too many for a disease-free, non-handicapped child. I found it interesting that in one of JonBenét's pageant interviews she tells the emcee that she wants to be a doctor or a nurse when she grows up so she can help people. The emcee asks JonBenét what type doctor would she like to become and she answers: "A pediatrician."

midwest mama, I detect premeditation in numerous items affiliated with the CS, including, but not limited to, the purchase of the size 12s. Ditto for the jacket that matched PWs. The gold ID bracelet and My Twinn doll fall into that same category as does decorating at Christmas 1996 with the color purple. In her mind, JonBenét was already dead.

OMO

Though you and I would see a family involved in incestuous behavior as "unnatural", the reality of it is alive and flourishing throughout the world. It does well to make us ill to think of it, because it is very, very sick and sickening. Yet, evil perpetuates in spite of the side effects is produces in society.

IMO, Patsy may have had the responsibility of making sure JB was "prepared" for any facet of sexual behavior that would be required of JB to be accepted into service within a privileged and/or specialized group known to the R's. I believe this because in looking at many aspects of both Patsy's and JR's younger and former lives before their union, I can accept that PR might have been a victim of molestation during her youth, and that JR's life could have very easily been interwoven with dark aspects of, and connections to, child sex/pedophile activities.

I do not find it impossible to believe that there might have been a special meeting planned between JR and JB, during which Santa would have appeared. Especially since LE took a Santa suit into evidence right after the crime which Patsy easily identified to them as belonging to JR. And also because it was said there was a torn up note found in JB's trash, IIRC, written with fond Christmas sentiments to her from Santa. Why would JB have torn up a note and trashed it? Sounds more like someone might have done it out of jealousy.
Of course, if not PR finding the note and ripping it up, it begs to have us wonder about Burke doing the same.

What really makes me wonder about the possibility of JR being the "secret Santa", though, is the disclosure from JR in his book that he, too, wrapped gifts he bought that Christmas. And, when I read that, it also made me wonder about that "beautiful scarf" that he had purchased (according to Patsy) which he placed lovingly over JB in her coffin.

Her funeral was in Georgia. When would JR have taken the time, either before leaving Boulder or after arriving in Georgia to go and shop for a scarf (for a 6 year old ???) just to put over her in her coffin? Could that scarf have been discovered and become more fuel for the rage that might have been building in Patsy which led her to a final resolution of ending JonBenet's ability to replace her as John's object of affection? Or was the scarf part of anything that happened the night JB was killed and placed with her as part of the pact sealed between JR and PR that any secrets they shared about that night would be put to rest along with JB? The scarf bugs the crap out of me.

IMO, if PR was going to allow JR access to JB willingly the night she was killed, then PR had already decided she would have to kill JB to keep her from the mental victimization she knew JB would experience from that time forward in her life. She might have already begun to detest it all so much just knowing what was ahead for JB according to what had already been happening, but by adding JR into the formula, it was beyond bearing.

I have circled in and out and roundabout as to who and why JB was killed. At this time, I have to believe PR could not allow JB to grow up being used by JR. What if she had gone off the deep end emotionally enough and the reason she ended up killing JB that Christmas was because she could also tie in getting that $118K from JR in the form of the ransom, squirrel it away somewhere and then later laugh in his face about it as he figured out she'd killed JB but couldn't do anything about it? She knew he was still suffering over Beth, especially as Christmas neared. Did she think that in harming him by taking away JB, she would take it further by getting his end of year bonus that he had not disclosed to her, but that she must have discovered?

The reasons John could never have given up Patsy were not only for himself, but ultimately for Burke. JR said that he could not have stood it if anything had happened to Burke. Maybe he wanted to ultimately give Burke every reason to move forward and try to have as normal a life as possible. In spite of all things disgusting I find about John, and the fact that I believe he would deserve anything that came his way with regard to discovery of who he really is, he could have tried to see Burke become protected from the travesty of it all.

Peterson Trial and WebSleuths

Originally Posted by 2 percent

I read Bird's book and Crier's book. To be honest, I was looking for the reason I was so convinced Peterson was guilty.
Because the evidence wasn't really there.

I remember when the case went to the jury and someone on Court TV, or whatever they were calling themselves then, asked Wecht and Baden what what they thought the verdict will be. I got the shock of my life when Wecht started saying there was no actual evidence of murder, just a death. And he was right!

So I shut off the TV and started thinking the case through. It's so weird...I knew he was guilty but I couldn't find anything in the testimony that really said murder except his actions after the crime, specifically leaking oil on the tarp Laci was probably transported with. To this day I still don't have a theory for how she died. Rebecca has shown me it didn't have to be limited to "soft" murder methods.

Crier's book was good for the criminal investigation, Bird's was good for insight. I've posted before that Fleet White's reaction to John reminds me of a similar reaction I had when my niece lied to a cop. I still don't know if it was what she said, how she said or what...but I knew she was lying. It's the same with Anne Bird, none of her book is about actual evidence. It's about instinct.

*On a side note I also found it interesting how many people Peterson rubbed the wrong way. It's almost like people had a gut, or visceral, reaction to him. Bird recounts a lot of those, especially after the murder. I trust my gut much more now....especially when it's screaming "bad news!" at me when I meet someone*

ITA about trusting that tiny voice deep inside of each one of us some refer to as instinct. It's as if tiny antennae pop up and alarm bells sound, if we listen.

Cyril Wecht said there was no murder; only proof of a death. Well, why would an expectant mother's body be decomposing in the salty Bay? Answer: Because she was wearing concrete boots at the bottom of the Bay.

There is a lady who posted for us, "live" as it were, during last year's gut-wrenching trial for the murder of Travis Alexander in AZ. Her name is Katy. Katy's own sister's killer is currently on death row in AZ.

Katy was an enthusiastic sleuth on the forums during the Scott Peterson trial; especially online at court tv where she befriended a lady whom she flew to meet for the purpose of touring Laci's neighborhood and attend a few days of the trial.

While visiting the neighborhood where the Peterson home was located, they snapped a photo that was later used by the prosecution as sworn testimony evidence during SPs murder trial. The photo Katy's friend snapped, IIRC, showed a stack of bags of dry concrete by the Peterson's fence.

If I may say so, Katy, and myself, believe, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Scott, on purpose and with malice and forethought, murdered two people: Laci and his unborn son.

In a nutshell, my theory is that he drowned Laci, at night, in the backyard swimming pool, took her out, wrapped her in the tarp, attached the concrete to her body before dumping her body in the cool ocean water just beyond his sister's home.

And then he called his lover, Amber.

Katy's awesome trail updates @ WS during the sensational AZ Travis Alexander murder trial last year led her to develop an interesting and rather soothing blog. She has guest appeared on several of the cable shows for HLN, ie., Dr. Drew, Nancy Grace.

For those who may be interested or may not know Katy, hers is a fascinating story.

Compare with Andrea Yates

I have been studying women who kill their children. A mother killing her children in horrible ways is almost always a sensational crime.

ANDREA YATES in 2001 held a degree in Nursing when she murdered her five children, by drowning, in Houston, TX. Yates was sentenced to life.

Around 10:00am on June 20, 2001, Rusty Yates received a startling phone call from his wife, Andrea, whom he had left only an hour before.

"You need to come home," she said.

Puzzled, he asked, "What's going on?"

She just repeated her statement and then added, "It's time. I did it."

Not entirely sure what she meant but in light of her recent illness, he asked her to explain and she said, "It's the children."

Now a chill shot through him. "Which one?" he asked.

"All of them."

This crime story would unravel in dark and strange ways, with the reasons why a loving mother of five had drowned all of her children tangled in issues of depression, religious fanaticism, and psychosis.

Rusty had made a decision. He felt torn, he said, but it was not his wife who had killed the children, but her illness. He went out to the throng of reporters and, holding a portrait of the once-happy family, told them everything he could recall from that dreadful day. He believed that the Andrea he knew was not the one who had turned against their kids. As he searched desperately for reasons that hadn't been obvious before, he made it clear that he intended to support her.

"She wasn't in the right frame of mind," he said

At the funeral:
"Rusty looked tired and grim in the unbearable humidity. He looked at the small cream-colored caskets, open for viewing, and placed Mary's favorite blanket inside hers.

The baby was dressed in pink. Rusty cried as he spoke his final words to her. He did the same at each of the other four open coffins, telling them they were now in good hands and placing some favorite item inside."

Her defense was legal insanity. Interestingly, prosecutors discovered an episode of Law and Order reruns that ran in Houston just before the Yates' drowning's with the same plot of drown the children, feign insanity, go free. Only Andrea did not go free. She was sentenced to life, even though, she was death penalty qualified x 3 counts.

I personally studied the Yates case in depth years ago when it was fresh. Many may not agree with this opinion; however, Rusty Yates should, IMMHO, be sitting in a cell next to his wife. Instead, suddenly, he has no children ~ all five were killed ~ and Andrea was gone upriver and he was free to remarry, which he did.

If you are not familiar with the case, this one paragraph says so much about their marriage of control and power:

"After two more children had come along, Rusty decided to "travel light," and made his small family sell their possessions and live first in a recreational vehicle and then in a bus that Woroniecki had converted for his religious crusade and sold to them. Andrea didn't complain—she was the type of woman who just went along with decisions---but she got pregnant again and had a miscarriage. Yet it wasn't long before she recovered, was again pregnant and had her fourth child, making their 350-square-foot living quarters rather cramped."

And at the end:
Rusty thought she was okay and left her alone. He was wrong. She had a plan.

A little known fact:
When police arrived, there was not a clean glass for a drink of water. But Rusty left her and his babies in the house that did not have one clean glass, and his wife was experiencing a near catatonic state.

Notice that their dad placed a favorite item like a favorite pink blanket for Mary inside the caskets.

What would John Ramsey place in his daughter's casket that would be considered a favorite item? A scarf.

And what do we know about this scarf he placed around the neck of his baby girl. He placed a scarf on top of the pretty white dress Patsy bought for JonBenét earlier and tucked it in around her neck. In her casket? Was it special?

Patsy gave about ten or more men inexpensive red or red plaid scarves for Christmas that year. JBR was buried with her favorite Sister Socks stuffed cat from the White's, a crown tiara from PG, a gold ring from Nedra and the gold ID dated bracelet from her mother.

Scarf Bracelet Tiara Cat

Why the scarf? Beth had presented John with a lovely scarf that last Christmas she was alive in 1991. Is that why he gave a scarf to JonBenét in 1996? Was it the same one?

Exactly. When did John take time to shop for a meaningful scarf in between flights from his daughter's death in Boulder to Atlanta for her burial? If he didn't shop for the scarf then he already had it and if he already had it why was it special to JonBenét?

If they were trying to hide sexual abuse why would they take her to peditrician that many times? Every time she went to the doctor there was a chance the doctor would discover the abuse, why would they roll the dice and risk exposure?

If they were trying to hide sexual abuse why would they take her to peditrician that many times? Every time she went to the doctor there was a chance the doctor would discover the abuse, why would they roll the dice and risk exposure?

Yes and this. It is obvious there was no knowledge of abuse. I am not even sure it is true and valid. I'm not. I think there could have been some normal damage from kid activities or medical issues but I do not believe at this point she was chronically abused.

There is no evidence of abuse. No corroborating facts that support abuse. No reports of abuse, no investigations. Nothing that supports the claim.

If she was having issues, UTI's it is possible she may have had some yeast issues also. Baths don't help this and it could be that she had rashes and scratching injuries that lead to scarring. I just don't feel there is enough proof to say she was chronically abused. JMO

Atticus Finch: “You never really understand a person . . . until you consider things from his point of view.” To Kill A Mockingbird

We are overlooking that they all attended the same church and were friends. They were comfortable with him, and probably trusted that he would be discreet, especially if the abuse were at the hands of a non-adult. JMO.

Uh huh

Originally Posted by DeDee

Cyril Wecht said there was no murder; only proof of a death. Well, why would an expectant mother's body be decomposing in the salty Bay? Answer: Because she was wearing concrete boots at the bottom of the Bay.

Oh I think he agreed that it was murder. His point was that, other than the fact that she was obviously dumped, there was no proof of murder. Just the disposal of a body. They never could determine her cause of death. Of course, the cause of death of the baby is clear but, again, it isn't clear how Laci died - natural causes, accident or murder.

Personally, I think murder. But Wecht was technically right.

In a nutshell, my theory is that he drowned Laci, at night, in the backyard swimming pool, took her out, wrapped her in the tarp, attached the concrete to her body before dumping her body in the cool ocean water just beyond his sister's home.

Bird thought that too. She said Scott seemed a little too focused on cleaning the pool and even wondered if the cops had checked the pool for evidence. I would be surprised if they didn't.

My only problem with the pool theory is that it's outside.
I was born and raised in Northern California. Like many Californians they had an outside pool. It could have been a heated pool but the air outside would still be in the upper 30s to mid 40s depending on the time of day. Even for a heated pool, that's cold outside especially for Californians. For people used to San Diego. Too cold for a pregnant woman to be comfortable. Also, she would have fought him and it would have made noise. Given the temp, the neighbor's windows would probably be closed but you can't guarantee someone wouldn't be outside or even walking by and hear splashing.