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You don't see the problem? I do. I do not trust the government to make the decision on whether citizens live or die. We fought a war against King George to stop crap like this from happening.

Academic debate over these issues doesn't accomplish anything. The alternative is what? Allow them to plot and commit acts of terrorism in peace because they won't allow themselves to be captured? We're not talking about your friendly neighborhood fatty on his way to the Pleasantville mall to buy a soft serve.

Originally Posted by danarhea

But maybe you are right. Maybe all the crap Bush was doing, like spying on American citizens without a warrant, and torturing people was OK, because the government said they had a reason to do so...... But wait. You liberals bashed the crap out of Bush for doing those things.

I've never supported torture and, while I don't support the idea of warrantless wiretapping, it doesn't really bother me all that much as nothing derived from it would be admissible in court. If you can't be captured in war then you should be killed.

Originally Posted by danarhea

Here's the deal, summed up in one phrase..... The Constitution of the United States of America.... It trumps Bush, and yes, it sure the hell trumps Obama too.

You don't see the problem? I do. I do not trust the government to make the decision on whether citizens live or die. We fought a war against King George to stop crap like this from happening. But maybe you are right. Maybe all the crap Bush was doing, like spying on American citizens without a warrant, and torturing people was OK, because the government said they had a reason to do so...... But wait. You liberals bashed the crap out of Bush for doing those things. You liberals especially bashed Bush for spying, and nobody got killed because they got spied on. So why isn't what Bush was doing OK with you, but it's OK for Obama to kill Americans without due process? Is the Constitution OK to judge Bush with, but wrong for judging the actions of Obama?

Here's the deal, summed up in one phrase..... The Constitution of the United States of America.... It trumps Bush, and yes, it sure the hell trumps Obama too.

Even the "liberals" are upset with the idea of drone strikes on Americans. No one who has been paying attention to the progression of government powers is on board with the idea of killing people who are suspected of being terrorists, just on the say so of the president.

Both Stewart and Colbert, neither of whom has been accused of being a right winger, skewered the idea on their programs. Right off hand, I can't think of any informed commentator from either side who is OK with this huge extra Constitutional power grab, but I suppose there must be someone.

"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance. It is the illusion of knowledge" Stephen Hawking

Agreed, However, I do think that some sort of oversight through the courts, like say FISA, or congress say the Intel, or Foreign Relations committees should be in the loop, and have to agree before allowing the summary killing of an American.

Please understand, if an American turns coat, and actively plots against America, or her citizens, then we have to consider them as part of the enemy force, and they deserve the consequences....I am extremely uneasy though about the vague language concerning this in the most recent order from the WH. It is vague enough, and without oversight as to open the door to targeting not only those overseas, but at some point you can see some crazy scenario where it could be used on our own shores.

I strongly disagree. Until a citizen actually commits a crime, he is protected by the Constitution. And, again, I do NOT trust the government, in any way, shape, or form, to decide who lives, and who dies without due process. True, we will be more protected by going after who we THINK MAY COMMIT a terrorist act, but as Ben Franklin once said, "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.". In addition, when asked what kind of government we were going to have, Franklin replied "A Republic, if we can keep it". Looks to me that we are not keeping it, but throwing it in the trash heap instead. Good bye, Republic. We are going to miss you.

I strongly disagree. Until a citizen actually commits a crime, he is protected by the Constitution. And, again, I do NOT trust the government, in any way, shape, or form, to decide who lives, and who dies without due process. True, we will be more protected by going after who we THINK MAY COMMIT a terrorist act, but as Ben Franklin once said, "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.". In addition, when asked what kind of government we were going to have, Franklin replied "A Republic, if we can keep it". Looks to me that we are not keeping it, but throwing it in the trash heap instead. Good bye, Republic. We are going to miss you.

I agree that both parties are trashing the fundamentals in their own pursuits, however, this is neither Franklin's time, nor Madison's, and if there is one thing threatening our basic rights as American's, it is summed up just a couple of postings up on the page as articulated by Napoleon....

Originally Posted by Napoleon

No Constitutional right is absolute. That is elementary civics.

It should be frightening to every American that liberals who believe they are in total charge today actually believe this.

Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.
Alexis de Tocqueville

I'd like to think this couldn't happen here, but I have a little bit of concern that we are heading down a slippery slope. It didn't just start. It started with local police buying and obtain surplus military equipment. And not he govt is all over the idea of limiting fire arms.

I think that if they can find them with a drone, then they should capture them and torture them for a while. You know, ship them to Egypt or Bulgaria or any of the 51 black sites outside the Continental USA where the torture is "more" legal. Then ship them to Guantanamo for some theatrical justice and then hang the bastards. I mean, think of the jobs it makes or just "kaboom' and no new jobs. Besides that, GWShiiteForBrains proved that you can surely trust the decisions coming from the Ivory Tower, commonly referred to as the Whitehouse, or not, eh?