Ok I've spent hours reading on the subject and the best I can come up with is that most issues are related to tension.Bearing this in mind and the suggestions here and from wiggle I decided to dig a little deeper into the saddle.I'm sorry but I didnt take photos but the links I'll add will hopefully add some clarity.This link:http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_VY9lef3Ripw/S ... Grease.jpgshows whats described/labelled "tension shakle".

In my saddle for an unknown reason the "shackle" had twisted inside the "nose piece" despite feeling like it was of a decentamount of preload (tension).

Rather than sitting on the two edges/sides of the "nose piece" the "shackle" was down on one side and into the "nose piece"twisting the "tension bolt" to one side as per my photos.

I've released all tension and removed the "tension bolt" to examine for damage (none I can see).

I carefully put everything back together taking care to make sure the "shackle" mounts both edges of the nose piece (sitting on the edges) and I've added up what I feel to be an appropriate amount of "tension".

Shame there's not some torque figures to go by curtesy of Brooks but perhaps there's too much variance in the types of leather used.

Where did this pic come from? Someone had the good taste to put their saddle on a Nitto post.

rifraf wrote:...and I agree that the large copper rivets add something to the overall appearance.

At your weight I wouldn't buy anything but copper rivets as they are primarily designed to help the leather last longer.

Someone else had mentioned the copper rivets and weight bearing to me before hence "one" of the reasons I paid over the odds for the Ti version of the Swift.And shut up about my weight already Does this Brooks make my butt look big? is a rhetorical question

rifraf wrote:Shame there's not some torque figures to go by courtesy of Brooks but perhaps there's too much variance in the types of leather used.

My method for torquing is to use the Brooks spanner with one finger at half way along the handle length. I usually retighten either periodically, or when I start chafing. I find the nut slowly unwinds with saddle use on all my Brooks saddles and even faster on the Flyer. It was so bad on the Flyer off road that I actually wired the nut in position so it couldn't move. For some reference, I'm about 82Kg at the moment.

Hi Nobody, thanks for the link. Alas they only come in 300mm which isnt long enough for my next build that I'm considering.I'm thinking I'll make do with a Thomson Elite (400mm).My current ride requires a 34.9 post which are like rocking horse droppings and the Nitto only comes in the 27.2.I'll have to appreciate it from afar.....

Mine's a 250. They didn't even stock a 300 when I bought mine (not that it matters for me). I buy all my post in 27.2 these days and just get shims for different bikes. It makes it easier to swap things around between bikes and thinner posts have more flex/give.

How's the progress with the Swift going? Is the problem fixed or are you waiting for warranty replacement?

RonK wrote:Well Aidan, if I recall correctly, according to Brooks, the Swift is the hardest saddle in their range.

Close. It's in the middle.

Brooks wrote:Brooks offers a range of racing saddles, all somewhat narrower than their touring and trekking counterparts, for increased pedalling freedom and in order to reduce weight. Our selection of saddles for the sporting cyclist include a variety of models: the B15 Swallow is our most elastic saddle. The Swift is slightly stiffer in comparison, and features distinctive partially cut-away sides. The Team Pro and the B17 Narrow are our stiffest saddle offerings.

il padrone wrote:Team Pro the hardest saddle - I can attest to that. After well over 3 months of regular use (probably up around 2000kms) it's still as hard as wood

Thorn believe that the honey is the fastest to break in. Can't remember where I read it on their site. Still took me a while to break mine in. A guy at work who I think is about 70Kg said he had trouble breaking in a B17.

Nobody wrote:How's the progress with the Swift going? Is the problem fixed or are you waiting for warranty replacement?

A little less than satisfied with the correspondence and communication content thus far.

I did get a little info from Brooks as to self repair including suggestion of squeezing the front end of the saddle closer together carefully in a vice to aid the shackle not to twist again.I can only assume it falls under owner maintenance.

I got the feeling Wiggle thought the problem was down to my lack of maintenance as in their corespondents words:

"The bolt on the nose of this saddle requires adjusting at least once a month, this would have been clear on the instructions that came with it. It does not look like this has been adjusted throughout the year of use. Due to the leather build of the Brooks range the saddle material is likely to stretch, you have to adjust the bolt slightly to grow with this movement during the breaking in period."

I'm unsure of how many turns of the bolt to tighten this may have incurred in their opinion but it gives me the impression that its more than Brooks suggestion of:

"1. Make a mental note of the position of the Tension Pin Nut2. Slacken off the Nut3. You should now be able manipulate the Shackle fairly easily and re-locate it so that the shoulders sit on the wall of the Nose piece4. Re-tension the saddle by moving the nut back to, and beyond the starting position. I would suggest at least full rotation part the starting point."

No clear suggestions as to the cause and effect except Wiggles "this saddle requires adjusting at least once a month, this would have been clear on the instructions that came with it. It does not look like this has been adjusted throughout the year of use"apparently putting the issue down to negligence if I'm reading it right.

In answer to my response talking about my prior ownership of Brooks saddles with no twisting issues experience and no adjustment having ever been needed their answer was to send them the saddle and if in their opinion it was down to faultyparts or workmanship then they'd look at doing a warranty claim.

A friend on the BNV Forum posted about his Brooks saddle. This happened when it was still quite new - he went out side to find that a dripping drain had wetted one side of his saddle significantly. Can't remember whether he rode to work with it wet or not (probably did), but regardless, the saddle developed a noticeable sag on one side. He let it dry but the sag persisted. After much consultation he soaked the saddle in a basin of water and then let it dry thoroughly. After this he described the saddle as being virtually back to the original shape and he used Proofide on it and continued the break-in process. I believe he still has the saddle.

One of the break-in techniques, not Brooks-aproved, is to soak the saddle in water for some time then take it for a 10-20km ride while still wet. After this leave it to dry thoroughly whence it should have taken the shape of your butt. Something to consider.

Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.

il padrone wrote:An observation and suggestion - may not be relevant in your case.

soaked the saddle in a basin of water and then let it dry thoroughly. After this he described the saddle as being virtually back to the original shape and he used Proofide on it and continued the break-in process. I believe he still has the saddle.

Something to consider.

Yes I've read of "some" success using varying "wet" methods of shaping.Thanks for the reminder. I'll keep it in mind for a "last resort". Hopefully on Monday I can find access to a vice to pinch tighterthe nose piece to stop the shackle twisting. It'll be interesting to see the outcome and whether it'll last or be a shortlived repair.

It is possible the breaking in of the saddle has exposed that the OP has a leg length discrepancy or other variance from "normal".

I have had a different brand leather saddle (Gilles Berthoud - Aramis) for a about 4 months now. It has developed a similar asymmetric break-in shape over about 3500km of riding. I had not sought to blame the quality of the saddle leather as I have a mild left leg abnormality and have assumed that was causing the difference between the sides. This weekend, it rained while we were racing and the saddle softened quite remarkably and as a consequence the difference between sides became more pronounced. The LHS of my saddle shows a much more pronounced dip than the RHS and the centreline crease is slightly toward the RHS of the saddle

The cause of the slightly abnormal leg in my case is known following medical investigation and surgery. It is caused by an osteoarthritis in the lateral (outside) compartment of my LHS knee. I have lost cartilage on the outside of the knee whilst the inside remains fairly normal. The knee was operated on about 4 years ago. As a consequence of the OA, my LHS leg splays outwards below the knee and it also results in a restricted range of flexion and extension. I think it also changes the effective leg length at various stages of the pedal cycle.

BTW, I get some comments about my "heavy" saddle, however I been rotating through a number of saddles to try to get one that stays comfortable for longer rides. None are perfect, but the leather ones seem to be the most comfortable, the challenge being to find ones that allow for a more "aero" position for competition as a Masters 6 rider.

I do have a leg-length discrepancy. 1 cm shorter right leg, due to a hip fracture 7 years ago. My Swift developed an asymmetrical shape, breaking in more on the left side. I doubt that was because of the shorter right leg.

For rifraf to have caused his severely asymmetrical shape due to a shorter leg, he'd have a huge limp when walking.

Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.

Update,not having access to a vice, I went to Joondalup today to the LBS there and asked them to have a go at squeezing the nose piece rail's closer. No joy as it releases exactly back into the same position. The "shackle" looks in danger of twisting as there is too much "play" on one side. This isn't alleviated once tension is applied (allen bolt tightened).I cant complain as they didnt charge me, but I would have been much happier being able to decide the level of pressure myself.Its looking like a return to Brooks but being xmas who knows how long that process will take (including return post).Even taking potential costs out of it, I'm not liking how long the bike might be out of action and my purchasing decisions take forever if I want to pre-empt the return by getting in another saddle especially as I'm looking at a new bike build.Aaaaaaghhhhhh

laterstarter wrote:It is possible the breaking in of the saddle has exposed that the OP has a leg length discrepancy or other variance from "normal".

I assume anythings possible...... I have no idea how I'd begin the process to find out. There may indeed be some issue as mysister was born with hip displacia (scuze spelling) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hip_dysplasia_%28human%29 and as a baby spent time in a special splint. I know I wasnt treated for the problem but I suppose there might be a genetic issue

Could just as easily be springy Ti rails and when I left Mudgee I was tipping the scales quite highly.

Your suggestion isnt without merit but I'm kinda more focused trying to find a solution than concentrating on the many potentialthings that could be the cause of the problem.

Thanks for the suggestion Laterstarter, might be something I'll bring up with my doctor down the track (next I'm there)