The shitty thing is that "design the O around Bargs" was a legit strategy going into the season (or so we thought). Most of us had him listed as our best offensive player. Casey tried this over and over until Bargnani turned into public enemy #1, and even then still forced the offense thru him. So here we are, less than 1 year later, getting trolled by the idea tha Bargnani could be our first option. #facepalm.

I think we just got so focused on getting Bargs stronger, getting a post up game, getting him more responsible on D, etc, etc, etc, and the team forgot to hone and nuture his true asset - outside shooting. So much focus was put on the other aspects of his game, the part the was taken for granted atrophied. Now he's a shell of his former self and will never achieve his potential. It's both a personal and organizational failure.

Will he ever get his shot going?

Wed May 8th, 2013, 03:28 PM

Nilanka

Quote:

NoBan wrote:

The shitty thing is that "design the O around Bargs" was a legit strategy going into the season (or so we thought). Most of us had him listed as our best offensive player. Casey tried this over and over until Bargnani turned into public enemy #1, and even then still forced the offense thru him. So here we are, less than 1 year later, getting trolled by the idea tha Bargnani could be our first option. #facepalm.

I think we just got so focused on getting Bargs stronger, getting a post up game, getting him more responsible on D, etc, etc, etc, and the team forgot to hone and nuture his true asset - outside shooting. So much focus was put on the other aspects of his game, the part the was taken for granted atrophied. Now he's a shell of his former self and will never achieve his potential. It's both a personal and organizational failure.

Will he ever get his shot going?

Not sure I agree it's the organization's fault for wanting/expecting Bargnani to diversify his game. He wasn't exactly a 3-point specialist coming into this season.

Wed May 8th, 2013, 03:38 PM

RandomGuy

Bargnani is lazy ass player, who just was gifted with talent. You can see "LAZY" in his physiognomy. I saw it when I became Raps fan on day 1, but remained silent as majority was still pro-Bargnani, now I can say it without hesitation. As he gets older, he gets lazier, there's no way he will be better than his legendary 13 game mirage.

Wed May 8th, 2013, 04:07 PM

NoBan

Quote:

Nilanka wrote:

Not sure I agree it's the organization's fault for wanting/expecting Bargnani to diversify his game. He wasn't exactly a 3-point specialist coming into this season.

It's a shared blame. Bargnani hasn't just been eating primo pasta this whole time; he's not eddy curry. He has worked on strength & conditioning, 1 on 1 D, etc.

If the team would have said "Andrea, your job is to put up 1000 shots a day, here is your personal shooting coach" on day 1, we'd probably have a more useful player on our hands now. What do you think?

Wed May 8th, 2013, 04:30 PM

Nilanka

Quote:

NoBan wrote:

It's a shared blame. Bargnani hasn't just been eating primo pasta this whole time; he's not eddy curry. He has worked on strength & conditioning, 1 on 1 D, etc.

If the team would have said "Andrea, your job is to put up 1000 shots a day, here is your personal shooting coach" on day 1, we'd probably have a more useful player on our hands now. What do you think?

I'm of the belief that a team can't hide a front court player who is a poor defender/rebounder. If Bargnani was left to focus on just his shot, I'm sure his shot would be better, but IMO, he'd still be pretty useless (as an overall player) because of what he gives up on the other end.

Thu May 9th, 2013, 03:02 PM

NoBan

Realistic Options Regarding Andrea Bargnani

Dude looked spent as a baller last year. Same old issues about defensive positioning, no nose for the ball, etc, plus the added bonus of being a terrible, terrible shooter. At $11 & $12 mil for the upcoming 2 seasons, his value is at an all time low and he's one of the worst contracts in the game. What are the options for shipping him out?

1) Amnesty.

Widely reported we're using this on Linus. Barg's $23 mil remaining certainly outweighs Linus' $4.6. Pulling the trigger on Andrea would give us more cap room, but also increase the money we're spending on literally no contrabutions. THis option seems more likely if BC is gone because Andrea is his baby to a certain degree.

2) Sit Tight.

We could try to revive him as an off-the-bench scorer, if only his shot would start falling. Maybe we could get a decent 6th man season out of him and deal him as an expiring next year (like Jose this past season).

3) Trade.

As one of the league's worst deals, we're not getting much (if anything) back. BC basically begged for offers this February and got ziltch. There is zero chance we get a first rounder for him. REPEAT: ZERO. We're only going to get a deal done if we take an even more horrific contract back (examples: Gerald Wallace, Amare), we trade a blue-chipper along with Andrea (JV), or we catch a team desperate team in a unique situation and hope they make a dumb move. I don't want Wallace or Amare. I want to keep JV. So who might make a silly trade with us? I suggested that we look at the Kings can ask for Chuck Hayes and Jimmer back. People here thought i was trolling and I'm not sure why. Are we really getting more than that back for our deadweight? Eric Gordon is begging to get out of New Orleans. David Lee is looking like a piece that no longer fits in GState. But those 2 guys are WAAAAY more valuable to AB at this stage.

Do you guys think any of these trades are realistic and intriguing? (Again, I HIGHLY doubt we're getting a pick back for him, so let's avoid tossing any into our hypothetical deals)

Would you rather amnesty him?

Do you want to roll into next year with him?

Thu May 9th, 2013, 03:06 PM

stretch

Anything but sit tight.

Somebody should add a poll to this thread.

Thu May 9th, 2013, 03:07 PM

Rapstor4Life

Bargnanni has value (even if little) can be traded for something the Raps can use its on BC not to over value him though. Amnesty is for none other than Klieza and sitting tight is not an option Bargnani's value is what it is It cant get any lower and him playing a couple of games into the next season wont make it any better.

Thu May 9th, 2013, 03:26 PM

isaacthompson

1) I think our first priority with the amnesty clause is Kleiza. If that isn't possible, then I'd be more than willing to use it on Bargs. The guy is almost impossible to trade. The only reason any other team would take him at this point would be to help him revive his game. I'd look at another bottom-feeder team as a franchise looking to make use of him.

2) Fairly obvious anyways, but this is the worst thing that could happen. Even if a miracle does indeed occur, and he finds his game to some degree, I think it's been made clear he holds NO PART in this team's future. So why give him minutes that could be used to develop other players, specifically Ross. It's a lose-lose situation for us. Whether he plays or he sits on the bench, he's a detriment.

3) Although we won't get much back, this is definitely the best situation. As for your trades, they're OK.

- Switching David Lee for Amir is a huge improvement offensively, but we regress exponentially on the defensive end. I also feel like Lee and JV would clash a lot, since their games are fairly similar. I could see the pair working if JV continues to develop his mid-range game; Lee is much more of a back-to-the-basket player and his shooting form is awful, so I don't foresee any improvement in that area.

- We're definitely better off with DeRozan than with Eric Gordon, and throwing Bargs in there just makes the trade look worse. We all know at the beginning of the season, Gordon didn't want New Orleans to match the Clippers' offer, and now that he's there he wants out. Who's to say he doesn't do that in a city such as Toronto? Not to mention all of the injury problems...

- Amar'e also has a history of injury problems, but if he can return to form, I can see this trade working. Then again, if Fields ever returns to rookie form, I can see this trade not working. Lots of "what-if's" associated with this one.

- Chuck Hayes is kind of useless even as a 3rd/4th big on this team, especially since Acy's actually showing some sort of potential. As for Jimmer, he can play both guard positions, but as a young guy he'll be fighting for the same minutes T. Ross will be.

- Gerald Wallace would be kind of useless on this team, with Rudy, AA and Fields all playing the 3. Don't know why Brooklyn would do this trade either, unless their looking for someone like MarShon Brooks to step up and start, which isn't likely.

Overall, I do believe trade would be the best decision we could make with him, or if worst comes to worst, straight up amnesty. It's just finding the right trade that matters.

Thu May 9th, 2013, 03:40 PM

white men can't jump

Quote:

NoBan wrote:

Dude looked spent as a baller last year. Same old issues about defensive positioning, no nose for the ball, etc, plus the added bonus of being a terrible, terrible shooter. At $11 & $12 mil for the upcoming 2 seasons, his value is at an all time low and he's one of the worst contracts in the game. What are the options for shipping him out?

1) Amnesty.

Widely reported we're using this on Linus. Barg's $23 mil remaining certainly outweighs Linus' $4.6. Pulling the trigger on Andrea would give us more cap room, but also increase the money we're spending on literally no contrabutions. THis option seems more likely if BC is gone because Andrea is his baby to a certain degree.

2) Sit Tight.

We could try to revive him as an off-the-bench scorer, if only his shot would start falling. Maybe we could get a decent 6th man season out of him and deal him as an expiring next year (like Jose this past season).

3) Trade.

As one of the league's worst deals, we're not getting much (if anything) back. BC basically begged for offers this February and got ziltch. There is zero chance we get a first rounder for him. REPEAT: ZERO. We're only going to get a deal done if we take an even more horrific contract back (examples: Gerald Wallace, Amare), we trade a blue-chipper along with Andrea (JV), or we catch a team desperate team in a unique situation and hope they make a dumb move. I don't want Wallace or Amare. I want to keep JV. So who might make a silly trade with us? I suggested that we look at the Kings can ask for Chuck Hayes and Jimmer back. People here thought i was trolling and I'm not sure why. Are we really getting more than that back for our deadweight? Eric Gordon is begging to get out of New Orleans. David Lee is looking like a piece that no longer fits in GState. But those 2 guys are WAAAAY more valuable to AB at this stage.

Do you guys think any of these trades are realistic and intriguing? (Again, I HIGHLY doubt we're getting a pick back for him, so let's avoid tossing any into our hypothetical deals)

Would you rather amnesty him?

Do you want to roll into next year with him?

I think the Sacto deal (the 4th one) is the only realistic one.

-It's not worth getting Lee if we lose Amir. The gap between them isn't big enough to give up Amir in such a deal, as if Lee puts the team over the hump. Our D would get worse, and we'd still be lacking a good 3rd big.

-It's not worth getting Gordon...at all, soft-ass prima donna jump shooting non-defending useless sack of crap money eating bastard. Even with all DeMar's lacking areas, I'd take him over Gordon every time. Everything about that guy's attitude since he's been in the league has rubbed me the wrong way and I think he's the type of player a team that plans to be bad (or not very good) keeps around.

-Stoudemire is NYK's Bargnani, but gets paid twice as much. Landry Fields might be more useful than either one even with a broken shot. NY wins this deal of losers.

-I think the Wallace trade makes some sense from BKL's perspective, but Wallace isnot a PF, and Gay is our starting SF. It is not a good deal for Toronto.

-So back to the Sacto deal. They could use a scoring threat like Bargs (in theory, obviously), especially in the frontcourt to offset their guard heavy rotation. Offensively, he fits well as a spacer next to Cousins and Evans, is a btter threat than Jimmer, and unlike Jimmer, won't have to fight guards for minutes. Hayes is basically just an extra body. Wouldn't expect too much from him. Jimmer could slide into a normal backup PG role. I don't think it's a great deal, but it is realistic. Neither team saves money and both try to address some roster concerns (though neither ideally).

Bottom line....keep hoping that there are a lot more realistic scenarios that we can't think of. I wouldn't amnesty him under any circumstance. I don't necessarily believe there's a good trade to be had, but at worst, I think you can trade him for other crappy contracts. For instance, I disagree with what you say about no team being willing to give up a pick for him. A team that doesn't expect to suck may try to shed a bad contract for Bargs, and be willing to trade a pick that they don't think will help them. A young team like GSW for example. Biedrins/Jefferson + a lottery protected 1st rder for Bargnani....If Landry declines his option and leaves, I can see them considering that. Toronto would get a pick and shed a year of salary commitment. GSW gets a bench scorer, and some size/insurance at the bigs.

I really want Scola, and would be willing to take Beasley, but the presence of Frye and both Morris twins makes that so hard to see happening, though it also makes them unpredictable. PHX will suck next year and clearly is stocking assets to trade, the questions being when and for what? I wish Bargs played a weaker position...instead he plays maybe the strongest position in the league. Still, I see PHX as a situation to keep an eye one.

Basically, I think they'd have a chance at getting a pick from a team that doesn't expect to have a high pick and has their own dead weight to shed...but this is also contingent on them having some expectation that Bargnani will even be the Bargnani of any other season but this last one. And as for players, I think they'll likely only get a useful player from a bad team looking to shake things up but not concerned about it being a total failure.

And oh yeah, in the absolute worst case a trade of any kind cna't be found...keep him. See if he does anything to help his value as the 3rd big off the bench. If he doesn't, he's shown that while he may have a negative impact on the court, at worst, he's a neutral impact when he's not playing. I don't think Bargs is a team "cancer" or anything. Just an underachiever who's been doing it too long in Toronto for him to still be around.