HERS Index tracking 5 years or more after construction - Home Energy Pros2016-12-09T15:57:34Zhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/forum/topics/hers-index-tracking-5-years-or-more-after-construction?commentId=6069565%3AComment%3A152821&feed=yes&xn_auth=noThis should be done. We are w…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2014-03-27:6069565:Comment:1531252014-03-27T14:51:01.140ZBrett Littlehttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/BrettLittle979
<p>This should be done. We are working on it now.</p>
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<p>This should be done. We are working on it now.</p>
<p></p> Jeff,
Thank you for your prom…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2014-03-24:6069565:Comment:1526752014-03-24T18:13:54.528ZSandra K. Adomatis, SRAhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/SandraKAdomatisSRA
<p>Jeff,</p>
<p>Thank you for your prompt reply with the link to a study that is certainly what I need. I look forward to seeing the LBNL research to add additional support for reliance on this method of testing the energy efficiency of a building. I hope more studies will be done periodically to allow us to have solid support for using this Index.</p>
<p>Jeff,</p>
<p>Thank you for your prompt reply with the link to a study that is certainly what I need. I look forward to seeing the LBNL research to add additional support for reliance on this method of testing the energy efficiency of a building. I hope more studies will be done periodically to allow us to have solid support for using this Index.</p> I've sent this directly to Sa…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2014-03-24:6069565:Comment:1528462014-03-24T18:07:37.706ZJeffrey Gepharthttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/JeffreyGephart
<p>I've sent this directly to Sandra but for those following this thread Building Science Corp. provided a link to a study regarding air tightness over time, which to me would seem the only real variable to a HERS score in a 5-10 year time frame (absent home modification) that might cause a change in a HERS score.</p>
<p>The only research that I know of that looked at air tightness results ten years later was done by Gary Proskiw.…</p>
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<p>I've sent this directly to Sandra but for those following this thread Building Science Corp. provided a link to a study regarding air tightness over time, which to me would seem the only real variable to a HERS score in a 5-10 year time frame (absent home modification) that might cause a change in a HERS score.</p>
<p>The only research that I know of that looked at air tightness results ten years later was done by Gary Proskiw.</p>
<p><a href="http://web.ornl.gov/sci/buildings/2012/1998%20B7%20papers/072_Proskiw.pdf">http://web.ornl.gov/sci/buildings/2012/1998%20B7%20papers/072_Proskiw.pdf</a></p>
<p>Sam Rashkin also indicated that LBNL is currently doing a study on air tightness over time as well.</p> Craig,
The secondary mortgage…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2014-03-24:6069565:Comment:1526712014-03-24T16:58:04.821ZSandra K. Adomatis, SRAhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/SandraKAdomatisSRA
<p>Craig,</p>
<p>The secondary mortgage market - Fannie Mae questioned the use of a HERS Index after new construction. The questions are not out of bias from the appraisal industry but out of defense from the secondary market. This came up at the Green Mortgage Appraisal Roundtable at the White Conference on March 11th. No one in the room could answer Fannie's question on reliability of the HERS Index 5 yrs out or longer.</p>
<p>Craig,</p>
<p>The secondary mortgage market - Fannie Mae questioned the use of a HERS Index after new construction. The questions are not out of bias from the appraisal industry but out of defense from the secondary market. This came up at the Green Mortgage Appraisal Roundtable at the White Conference on March 11th. No one in the room could answer Fannie's question on reliability of the HERS Index 5 yrs out or longer.</p> The problem you are trying to…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2014-03-24:6069565:Comment:1529082014-03-24T16:47:14.807ZCraig Senglinhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/CraigSenglin
<p>The problem you are trying to solve is reconciling the bias and (mis)perceptions of appraisers and the real estate industry with the intent of REM/Rate (HERS software) as an energy modeling tool.</p>
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<p>As I said before, the HERS Index Score of a newly constructed house is fairly static and durable. If there are no substantial changes to the home, there is no need to keep verifying it. If the specs of the home are the same when it was constructed: No HERS change. Small variances…</p>
<p>The problem you are trying to solve is reconciling the bias and (mis)perceptions of appraisers and the real estate industry with the intent of REM/Rate (HERS software) as an energy modeling tool.</p>
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<p>As I said before, the HERS Index Score of a newly constructed house is fairly static and durable. If there are no substantial changes to the home, there is no need to keep verifying it. If the specs of the home are the same when it was constructed: No HERS change. Small variances in leakage test numbers don't move the number much either. I have personally seen this to be true on literally thousands of before-and-after HERS ratings when I was QA for a utility-sponsored energy audit and improvement program. Improvements don't move the needle as much as you think they would.</p>
<p>I also verify homes for LEED certification. If a home is LEED certified when constructed, does it need to be recertified every time it goes on the market? The answer is: NO. LEED certification is a stable selling feature of the home. The HERS Index SHOULD be thought of in much the same way for homes that were rated at construction.</p>
<p>This is why there is not much "out there" to answer your question. The vast majority of the home building industry isn't interested in spending the $$$ on validation studies because they have little monetary stake in resale value once the house is sold to the 1st home buyer.</p>
<p>Because the HERS index is also used by energy performance contractors as a way to validate their efforts on existing homes, there is a perception that a HERS score is a highly elastic, ever-changing metric that must be continually redone to be valid.</p>
<p>From all I have gathered, the appraisal industry is still behind the curve and has not yet fully come to terms with how they are going to quantify the HERS metric, and other green home features, into their assessment process.</p>
<p>It appears they may have to conduct some primary research to figure that out! :-)</p>
<p>Let me know if I can help...</p>
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<p>Craig</p>
<p>EnergyIQ-USA.com</p> Michael,
I understand your po…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2014-03-24:6069565:Comment:1526652014-03-24T15:10:18.678ZSandra K. Adomatis, SRAhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/SandraKAdomatisSRA
<p>Michael,</p>
<p>I understand your point and I have no problem with the study you reference other than it does not answer the secondary mortgage market question as to prove the HERS Index is still valid 5 yrs or more out from new construction. They are looking for comparison using HERS Index at new construction and HERS Index 5 years or more out. The comment regarding the utilities is there are too many variables to consider it a reflection of how relevant the HERS Index may be 5 yrs or…</p>
<p>Michael,</p>
<p>I understand your point and I have no problem with the study you reference other than it does not answer the secondary mortgage market question as to prove the HERS Index is still valid 5 yrs or more out from new construction. They are looking for comparison using HERS Index at new construction and HERS Index 5 years or more out. The comment regarding the utilities is there are too many variables to consider it a reflection of how relevant the HERS Index may be 5 yrs or more out. It is a battle I am trying to overcome.</p> Well I will call BS - you do…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2014-03-24:6069565:Comment:1528412014-03-24T14:10:57.079ZSean Lintow Srhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/sls
<p>Well I will call BS - you do not need electrical bills et al (which Blasnik actually did below) as that only clouds the issue (though it can help in certain circumstances) - an appraisers job is to come up with a fair appraisal given all the facts based on the house in question, not how a homeowner used the utilities. How they maintained it, sure, but short selling a home because one was competing with a local airport as compared to a frugal person who liked dining by candle light &amp;…</p>
<p>Well I will call BS - you do not need electrical bills et al (which Blasnik actually did below) as that only clouds the issue (though it can help in certain circumstances) - an appraisers job is to come up with a fair appraisal given all the facts based on the house in question, not how a homeowner used the utilities. How they maintained it, sure, but short selling a home because one was competing with a local airport as compared to a frugal person who liked dining by candle light &amp; never owned a TV???</p>
<p>How do you rate a water heater - well for most you look at the usage sticker on the heater (or pull one up) - does that define exactly how much hot water a past individual actually used? No it simply relies on a set test to determine what an "average" person using said appliance can expect to pay. This also applies to cars MPG, ENERGY STAR appliances, a HERS score, etc... as they are all asset based ratings </p>
<p>If you want a study to see how a HERS rating changes over 5 years, ask for people that know the original rating &amp; still have the files to open them up in the newest version &amp; see what it is today. Personally after 5 years it should be redone as it is very rare that they have left everything the same - you have cable or satellite TV repairman that just love screwing around with stuff, failure to maintain the shell or having mice invade might change it. Also one quickly overlooked item is maybe they switched from incandescent to CFL or LED.</p>
<p>As for supporting a market, I suggest looking at markets that have already added them - I have seen quite a few studies where they show increased &amp; quicker sales because the information was there.</p> I guess I don't understand wh…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2014-03-24:6069565:Comment:1527682014-03-24T13:23:50.654ZMichael Blasnikhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/MichaelBlasnik
I guess I don't understand what you mean by factual studies -- I would think comparing actual energy use to projections from the ratings across many thousands of homes and then also looking over multiple years would be considered a factual study. What are you actually looking for?
I guess I don't understand what you mean by factual studies -- I would think comparing actual energy use to projections from the ratings across many thousands of homes and then also looking over multiple years would be considered a factual study. What are you actually looking for? Michael,
I am well aware of t…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2014-03-24:6069565:Comment:1526632014-03-24T13:07:59.723ZSandra K. Adomatis, SRAhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/SandraKAdomatisSRA
<p>Michael,</p>
<p>I am well aware of the study that was sponsored by Advanced Energy. It does not verify the HERS Index. I contacted Advanced Energy initially when I started this post. The study does provide some good support for energy bills but if the HERS Index Report is going to be relied upon, let us do some factual studies to support the "theory". Thanks to all that are responding to this post. I think you see the problem the appraisal community is having defending this rating.</p>
<p>Michael,</p>
<p>I am well aware of the study that was sponsored by Advanced Energy. It does not verify the HERS Index. I contacted Advanced Energy initially when I started this post. The study does provide some good support for energy bills but if the HERS Index Report is going to be relied upon, let us do some factual studies to support the "theory". Thanks to all that are responding to this post. I think you see the problem the appraisal community is having defending this rating.</p> Sean,
I understand "theory"…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2014-03-24:6069565:Comment:1529052014-03-24T13:04:04.934ZSandra K. Adomatis, SRAhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/SandraKAdomatisSRA
<p>Sean,</p>
<p></p>
<p>I understand "theory" but theory should be supported with fact. The secondary mortgage market expects appraisers to support their numbers with fact and that includes reports we rely upon. We really need a study that uses not only utility bills but a revisit to the HERS Rating 5 yrs out or more. This will provide support to a market that the HERS Index is a true measure of EE beyond the initial new construction rating.</p>
<p>Sean,</p>
<p></p>
<p>I understand "theory" but theory should be supported with fact. The secondary mortgage market expects appraisers to support their numbers with fact and that includes reports we rely upon. We really need a study that uses not only utility bills but a revisit to the HERS Rating 5 yrs out or more. This will provide support to a market that the HERS Index is a true measure of EE beyond the initial new construction rating.</p>