alternative tools

I am looking for input from anyone who can help me. I am a Fire Instructor through my communities local Vocational school where I have taught numerous Auto Extrication classes. I really like to emphasize using alternative tools such as the 'cip saw, come-alongs, HI-LIFT jacks etc. on the extrication scene not only to compliment the Hydraulic Tools but also to use exclusively in the event of tool breakdown, multiple vehicles etc. Now to my question. After teaching a few of these classes, I have found that performing roof removals, steering column displacement and even some dash displacement using these tools has gone well, the main problem has been performing an adequate door removal using a reciprocating saw. Using a 5" metal blade and attacking the hinges has been little problem, but removing the door from the Nader side of the door has been difficult. Some models wiil allow the Sawzall blade to cut the sheet metal behind the pin but others will not. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I prefer to use a chisel on a door if the hydralics are not available. When I use a cip saw on a door, I make a pre cut on the outside door skin (kinda like a half moon)to gain access to the nadar and the hinges. My dept only uses 5" blades and I have experienced only minimal problems with the hinges. The nadar usually goes quick unless the blade bends on the B post.

Get a hold of the vendor, and demo the Quick Cut 300psi air chisel. We have 2 on our heavy rescue, and they blow through just about anything. We have gone through many a hinge, old and new, without so much as breaking a bit. I think you will be impressed.

First, I will suggest carrying a wider variety of "cip" blades. On my volly rescue rig and career truck company we carry 4", 6", 10" and 12" blades. All demolition quality and several blades in reserve. One method is to open up the door jamb with a set of "Irons" to make a purchase point. Use the adz end of a haligan tool and drive it into the door opening just above the nader pin. Once inserted, push and pull with a up and down motion to open up the point at the nader pin. This method gives you access to the pin where a long blade can cut through the pin in under a minute. Another method is to use a 12" blade and saw through the inner and outer door skin by-passing the nader pin all together. Start the cut at a the window seal just in front of the nader latching mechanism and saw straight downward. The blade cuts through the crash beam and other light metal in the door. Make sure that you avoid side impact airbags with this evolution. We don't want our personnel injured.

pwc606, I'll get the info and post it here. We also use the sawsall, 11 amp orbital's, have 4 on the rig, we use the torch blades with an assortment of lengths and tpi's. 100-200 blades on the rig at any given time, always a fresh one in the tools. Use em once and throw em away. Finally got the higher ups to buy into that one.

Another method of opening a door is to use the Hi-Lift jack, and perform a vertical crush on the door, and roll the door off of the nader pin.

I like to perform the crush first, then cut the hinges, finally removing the whole door.

Also if the car happens to be a two door vehicle, you can perform a third door evolution, when doing this, I like to first cut the hinges, then cut the B post, then cut the body panel at the rear of the side window of the backseat passenger, make this cut down as far as possible, I like to take the cut down to the seat, then follow the contour of the seat, ending the cut down at the sill, once this has been accomplished, place the Hi-Lift jack into place and push the whole assembly to the ground.

Great job trying to share ideas of what to do when the heavy stuff fails or does not apply. I remember a number of years back I worked with a team that had an old 32 tool with the 2 cycle head and we had to get inventive in the field lots of times when the head failed us.
I personally respond as a vol. in my pov many times but it's because I carry a complete set of mechanics and electrical hand tools due to the nature of my work. Many times we have used various things out of my box. I've found many situations disassembly using standard combo wrenches, socket sets, and even air ratchets from my box. I also carry several non standard bars ie the flat nailbars etc that carpenters use that have came in handy making purchase points look see openings etc.
An inexpensive air chisel set has come in handy on many jobs. My air chisel tip of choice for preconnect is the one that has a sheet metal curl making center. I have not lately but on older cars a large bolt cutter was a quicker alternative on some jobs also.
Everyone needs to be familiar with alternative methods not just for tool failure but also because sometimes other methods are far superior.

Originally posted by Mike McCain:Great job trying to share ideas of what to do when the heavy stuff fails or does not apply. I remember a number of years back I worked with a team that had an old 32 tool with the 2 cycle head and we had to get inventive in the field lots of times when the head failed us.
I personally respond as a vol. in my pov many times but it's because I carry a complete set of mechanics and electrical hand tools due to the nature of my work. Many times we have used various things out of my box. I've found many situations disassembly using standard combo wrenches, socket sets, and even air ratchets from my box. I also carry several non standard bars ie the flat nailbars etc that carpenters use that have came in handy making purchase points look see openings etc.
An inexpensive air chisel set has come in handy on many jobs. My air chisel tip of choice for preconnect is the one that has a sheet metal curl making center. I have not lately but on older cars a large bolt cutter was a quicker alternative on some jobs also.
Everyone needs to be familiar with alternative methods not just for tool failure but also because sometimes other methods are far superior.