The church of Scientology -- which is not recognized as a faith in Belgium -- and several of its top-ranking members face charges including extortion, fraud, illegal practice of medicine and violation of privacy laws, according to Flanders News.

phlegmmo:The church of Scientology -- which is not recognized as a faith in Belgium -- and several of its top-ranking members face charges including extortion, fraud, illegal practice of medicine and violation of privacy laws, according to Flanders News.

RedPhoenix122:MadSkillz: BSABSVR: RobertBruce: Is there any claim against them that can't be used against Catholicism?

The Catholic Church does not force you to unperson your lapsed Catholic friends and relatives.

Note that the Jehova's Witnesses pretty much force you to unfriend anyone who leaves. And your family that isn't in the church.

Not true, maybe at one time, but never seen that in my lifetime.

Source: Raised as a Jehovah's Witness.

I'm going off of stories collected from other people, which may be biased. It's possible that in their particular sect/group/district/church that there was pressure to avoid being friends with those outside of the faith. I inappropriately passed as truth something that was heresay and unproven, and therefore invalid. Therefore, I apologize.

Are you a current JW? If so, does your religion or religious leader in your 'kingdom hall' or whatever your particular church is called discourage people in the religion from having friends who are not JWs? If you are no longer a JW, while you were a JW, was there a discouragement from forming friendships with people outside of your group?

RobertBruce:Is there any claim against them that can't be used against Catholicism?

The biggest difference between a cult and a genuine religion is that a genuine religion is open about its beliefs. There's no esoteric knowledge, no secret initiation. No mysteries. No levels of membership of the faith. Anyone can come along to a service and see what's going on. Anyone can look up the Catholic Catechism or read the Bible. They might disagree with the Church's religious position, but it's easy to find out what its position is. Yes, they do pass around a collection plate for tithes - but the how much and whether you give money at all is entirely voluntary. And all you have to do to leave is quit going. There's no de-registration process. You don't write the Pope to say "I no longer wish to be Catholic" and there's no sanction against you for leaving.

thisispete:RobertBruce: Is there any claim against them that can't be used against Catholicism?

The biggest difference between a cult and a genuine religion is that a genuine religion is open about its beliefs. There's no esoteric knowledge, no secret initiation. No mysteries. No levels of membership of the faith. Anyone can come along to a service and see what's going on. Anyone can look up the Catholic Catechism or read the Bible. They might disagree with the Church's religious position, but it's easy to find out what its position is. Yes, they do pass around a collection plate for tithes - but the how much and whether you give money at all is entirely voluntary. And all you have to do to leave is quit going. There's no de-registration process. You don't write the Pope to say "I no longer wish to be Catholic" and there's no sanction against you for leaving.

If only that were true.

First off, there's esoteric knowledge and levels of membership in ALL religions. That's why Catholics even have the Pope is because he's the highest ranking member of the Church, all members of which outrank the laypeople. I'm pretty sure you also lose friends and family if you get excommunicated. Not quite the same as leaving the church, but it's a special kick-out process with consequences.

Then there's things like Buddhism where it's self limiting. If you don't meditate, you don't advance because... well you can't. No sit ups, no abs. No meditation, no wisdom. So the levels of involvement are almost cast in stone. No mikabozu( 3 day monk) is gonna get very far.

MadSkillz:RedPhoenix122: MadSkillz: BSABSVR: RobertBruce: Is there any claim against them that can't be used against Catholicism?

The Catholic Church does not force you to unperson your lapsed Catholic friends and relatives.

Note that the Jehova's Witnesses pretty much force you to unfriend anyone who leaves. And your family that isn't in the church.

Not true, maybe at one time, but never seen that in my lifetime.

Source: Raised as a Jehovah's Witness.

I'm going off of stories collected from other people, which may be biased. It's possible that in their particular sect/group/district/church that there was pressure to avoid being friends with those outside of the faith. I inappropriately passed as truth something that was heresay and unproven, and therefore invalid. Therefore, I apologize.

Are you a current JW? If so, does your religion or religious leader in your 'kingdom hall' or whatever your particular church is called discourage people in the religion from having friends who are not JWs? If you are no longer a JW, while you were a JW, was there a discouragement from forming friendships with people outside of your group?

Of course those who leave the church will not be able to associate with those who stay. Those who leave will be writhing in hell for all eternity while those who stay will sit at God's right hand in heaven.

First off, there's esoteric knowledge and levels of membership in ALL religions. That's why Catholics even have the Pope is because he's the highest ranking member of the Church, all members of which outrank the laypeople. I'm pretty sure you also lose friends and family if you get excommunicated. Not quite the same as leaving the church, but it's a special kick-out process with consequences.

Then there's things like Buddhism where it's self limiting. If you don't meditate, you don't advance because... well you can't. No sit ups, no abs. No meditation, no wisdom. So the levels of involvement are almost cast in stone. No mikabozu( 3 day monk) is gonna get very far.

But a religion doesn't say you achieve enlightenment or have stronger faith or have an easier path to heaven if you're a member of the clergy rather than the laity. In fact, it's customary to call the pope a "first among equals". There's no presumption that God would look more kindly on someone who has taken holy orders than on other members of the faith. As for excommunication, it's not banishment, the effect of it is that a person cannot partake in the sacraments, i.e. receive communion. It serves as a call for reconciliation and an excommunicated person on receiving absolution is welcome to resume full participation in the faith. The Catholic Encyclopedia has a full rundown on it..

I'd love to see scientology go, but not before I hear a fairly educated member of the church (who isn't on the payroll) explain the mythology of xenu, the ghosts, and the e-meter, all with a straight face. The stuff is just retarded and I can't believe anyone would go for it.

And on a thread jack, I know I'm a filthy fark liter but has anyone else noticed that they've really throttled back the number of new links being uploaded? When I started visiting this website a few years back I could read the page of web links, hit the refresh and have ten new links to look at. Now it seems like you can walk away from the computer for ten or so hours, come back and there's only (if you are lucky) one or two new links.

This doesn't compute because when you try to link an article, the process tells youu that they got so many links that they are almost never going to greenlight yours...

My theory is that for liters it is throttled back to get us to pay the 5 bucks to have total fark and access to all the submitted links.

thisispete:But a religion doesn't say you achieve enlightenment or have stronger faith or have an easier path to heaven if you're a member of the clergy rather than the laity. In fact, it's customary to call the pope a "first among equals". There's no presumption that God would look more kindly on someone who has taken holy orders than on other members of the faith. As for excommunication, it's not banishment, the effect of it is that a person cannot partake in the sacraments, i.e. receive communion. It serves as a call for reconciliation and an excommunicated person on receiving absolution is welcome to resume full participation in the faith. The Catholic Encyclopedia has a full rundown on it..

Cool. But that's 2012 and only applies to Catholicism. Religion is a big word. Ever hear of a Vestal Virgin? They had secrets and if they lost their "qualification" they were buried alive. Scientology has become a bit cultish, but buried alive?

You can't just wrap all religions up in a blanket word because there's a lot of them out there now and there's been many and more historically. They're often different and change over time. There's been some chapters even in Christianity that make Scientologists look downright sane.

doglover:Cool. But that's 2012 and only applies to Catholicism. Religion is a big word. Ever hear of a Vestal Virgin? They had secrets and if they lost their "qualification" they were buried alive. Scientology has become a bit cultish, but buried alive?

You can't just wrap all religions up in a blanket word because there's a lot of them out there now and there's been many and more historically. They're often different and change over time. There's been some chapters even in Christianity that make Scientologists look downright sane.

I'm not using the term "cult" to mean "a religion I don't like", it relates to how much scrutiny an outsider can subject it to and the freedom an adherent has to leave. The agency of the individual in their own spiritual development.

doglover:thisispete: But a religion doesn't say you achieve enlightenment or have stronger faith or have an easier path to heaven if you're a member of the clergy rather than the laity. In fact, it's customary to call the pope a "first among equals". There's no presumption that God would look more kindly on someone who has taken holy orders than on other members of the faith. As for excommunication, it's not banishment, the effect of it is that a person cannot partake in the sacraments, i.e. receive communion. It serves as a call for reconciliation and an excommunicated person on receiving absolution is welcome to resume full participation in the faith. The Catholic Encyclopedia has a full rundown on it..

Cool. But that's 2012 and only applies to Catholicism. Religion is a big word. Ever hear of a Vestal Virgin? They had secrets and if they lost their "qualification" they were buried alive. Scientology has become a bit cultish, but buried alive?

You can't just wrap all religions up in a blanket word because there's a lot of them out there now and there's been many and more historically. They're often different and change over time. There's been some chapters even in Christianity that make Scientologists look downright sane.

thisispete:RobertBruce: Is there any claim against them that can't be used against Catholicism?

The biggest difference between a cult and a genuine religion is that a genuine religion is open about its beliefs. There's no esoteric knowledge, no secret initiation. No mysteries. No levels of membership of the faith. Anyone can come along to a service and see what's going on. Anyone can look up the Catholic Catechism or read the Bible. They might disagree with the Church's religious position, but it's easy to find out what its position is. Yes, they do pass around a collection plate for tithes - but the how much and whether you give money at all is entirely voluntary. And all you have to do to leave is quit going. There's no de-registration process. You don't write the Pope to say "I no longer wish to be Catholic" and there's no sanction against you for leaving.

we make fun of scientology, but there is no fundamental difference between its mythology and that of christianity, judaism or islam - or any religion that involves the supernatural, for that matter. what's more ridiculous, the xenu-spaceship-volcanoes thing or mary being raped by an invisible sky wizard, giving birth to a future zombie-god (who is actually the same entity who raped her)? the only real difference is the age of the religion and the number of adherents.

so when you make fun of scientology or mormonism or whatever "funny" or "weird" religion... remember that yours may be just as funny or weird.

First off, there's esoteric knowledge and levels of membership in ALL religions. That's why Catholics even have the Pope is because he's the highest ranking member of the Church, all members of which outrank the laypeople. I'm pretty sure you also lose friends and family if you get excommunicated. Not quite the same as leaving the church, but it's a special kick-out process with consequences.

For your information the Catholic church IS the laypeople and NObody outranks them