Since an audio system is a system, what leads you to consider the D/A part of yours to be the weakest link?

After having that CDP, the D/A part of my system isn't a weak link anymore.
I'm only looking for an option to improve it, if possible, with my available finances.

My loudspeakers (Brodmann VC2) and power amp (Pass Labs XA30.5) aren't going to be changed, even if I'll win the lottery.
My turntable and cartridge are very good and in the light of the availability of good recorded and well maintained vinyl records, aren't worth any upgrade.
The room acoustics is treated professionally. Also, electricity and acoustic-mechanical vibrations damping are treated, probably ideally.
The weak links in my system are the pre-amp and phono stage. My next project is to build a pre-amp and phono stage combined, after the late Allen Wright's RTP3C. I'm gathering the money for the parts.

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Originally Posted by abraxalito

OK, I got the picture For me the joy is in the journey, not the destination so we're cut from rather different cloth

As for the spiritual and human path, I came to realize that the only thing is the path and the journey.
As for my stereo setup, though the journey may never end, I do want and intend to get at a level which is at least presently satisfying enough.

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Originally Posted by abraxalito

Do you not consider it unlikely that if such designs existed they'd be leveraged with higher margins than are typical for DIY-type products?

Yes, I do consider it.
As long as it will be something I can gather the money for, I'll go for it.

After having that CDP, the D/A part of my system isn't a weak link anymore.
I'm only looking for an option to improve it, if possible, with my available finances.

I've been working towards designing a kick-*** DAC for a couple of years, on and off. How much would you like to spend? Curious though that you are working towards upgrading what you consider to be a strong link in your system. Why would you do that?

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The weak links in my system are the pre-amp and phono stage. My next project is to build a pre-amp and phono stage combined, after the late Allen Wright's RTP3C. I'm gathering the money for the parts.

I'd suggest for digital playback getting rid of the preamp altogether. That'd be a step up - get a DAC which has inbuilt gain control and wire it directly to your Pass poweramps using a balanced interconnect as short as possible.

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As for the spiritual and human path, I came to realize that the only thing is the path and the journey.
As for my stereo setup, though the journey may never end, I do want and intend to get at a level which is at least presently satisfying enough.

So do I take it that your stereo set-up is not an aspect of your walk as a human being but something that operates by a different set of values? If so I can only suggest more integration means greater happiness. Changes, as in upgrades, come from within.

__________________“A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents ... but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.” - Max Planck

Maybe you want something different than another 1541. A DIR-9001 - PMD100 - 1862- discrete I/V + diamond buffer feed from a very low jitter transport like a Jocko Legato may have you thinking a TDA1541 ain't worth the trouble.

The only thing is holding onto your money soon the biggest problem with oversampling and the popularity the NOS probably largely due to jitter reduction. In a few years we should have a low jitter means to get i2s (and right justified/L/R, etc) from our computer at 8x , the game will change significantly at that point. Right now the industry is trying their best from letting this technology out (in good form) and for good reason, lot of experts will no longer be.

Maybe you want something different than another 1541. A DIR-9001 - PMD100 - 1862- discrete I/V + diamond buffer feed from a very low jitter transport like a Jocko Legato may have you thinking a TDA1541 ain't worth the trouble.

Certainly I don't want something too similar to what's already out there. Where's the fun in that? If I can buy a good enough one already I probably would just buy it and have done with it I'm definitely not a fan of the AD1862 though - played with some of the early samples back in my days at SSL - it had a fairly horrible mid-scale glitch from what I recall.

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The only thing is holding onto your money soon the biggest problem with oversampling and the popularity the NOS probably largely due to jitter reduction. In a few years we should have a low jitter means to get i2s from our computer at 8x , the game will change significantly at that point. Right now the industry is trying their best from letting this technology out (in good form) and for good reason, lot of experts will no longer be.

Well I tend to rule out computers as sources in their current incarnations due to the lack of control. No telling what's being loaded on in terms of updates and suchlike, not to mention consistency of what other processes are doing. Nothing against computers per se but to make progress in understanding digital audio, a PC is too much of a black box for me. I need something much, much simpler and hence easier to keep tabs on.

__________________“A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents ... but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.” - Max Planck

Well I tend to rule out computers as sources in their current incarnations due to the lack of control. No telling what's being loaded on in terms of updates and suchlike, not to mention consistency of what other processes are doing. Nothing against computers per se but to make progress in understanding digital audio, a PC is too much of a black box for me. I need something much, much simpler and hence easier to keep tabs on.

If you don't want a computer then you shouldn't get a DAC really an integrated disk player is much better if you can stand living in the 20th century, why not the SDplayer + latest Mkxx if you want tda1541 ?

I don't want TDA1541, its been done to death already and besides its out of production. I prefer to create my own path, it so much more fun to research new avenues than tread paths already well-worn. I'll build a DAC first and then integrate an SD card player into it later on. CDs are still very much my preferred means of enjoying music, though that may change as the storage of them is getting increasingly unwieldy

__________________“A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents ... but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.” - Max Planck

Maybe you want something different than another 1541. A DIR-9001 - PMD100 - 1862- discrete I/V + diamond buffer feed from a very low jitter transport like a Jocko Legato may have you thinking a TDA1541 ain't worth the trouble.

I had Low jitter clock -> CD -> PDM200 -> PCM1704 * 2 -> various analog stages in the early 2K's. It was not even close to TDA1541 (modified Philips LHH1000 and my own Adagio) or even TDA1545 (ack! dac, diyparadise Monica) with or without oversampling/upsampling in the areas that matter to me.

That said, the resulting player did pretty much beat up any SACD player it ever went up against and was considered very good by those that have a player like this (there is a review of this on audioreview under Shanling CD-T-100).

I made 50 or so of these based on Shanling CD-T100 in the end with pure tube output stages (Gomes). I still have one with a broken transport in storage and have been thinking to pull it out and try it as DAC with some mods...

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Originally Posted by regal

The only thing is holding onto your money soon the biggest problem with oversampling and the popularity the NOS probably largely due to jitter reduction.

It probably is not:

This is from a highly regarded Non-OS DAC using TDA1541. Jitter measurement - over 4nS. Of course, the Miller Analyser (and AP2) cannot really distinguish between real jitter and sidebands created by analogue stage non-linearity instead, so this result is somewhat specious.

For comparison, you can check out the measured jitter of one of my designs in the upcoming March issue of Stereophile. But note that the 120Hz and related sidebands in these measurements actually originate within the tube output stage as 2nd Harmonic of 60Hz pickup (at -115dBFs with a tubestage I will not offer an appy polly logie for them) and are not jitter.

If we exclude them the real jitter is in the region of around 50pS peak-peak and actually limited by the tube stages analog noisefllor (so again, it is not actually jitter in the literal sense, but just noise).

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Originally Posted by regal

In a few years we should have a low jitter means to get i2s (and right justified/L/R, etc) from our computer at 8x , the game will change significantly at that point. Right now the industry is trying their best from letting this technology out (in good form) and for good reason, lot of experts will no longer be.

Why in a few years? I am already doing precisely that. Not particular sure why 8 X is needed, but the solutions I work with can do 32 Bit at 8 Speed and operate with as much or as little jitter as I specify my oscillators, oscillator power supplies and reclockers for, including galvanic isolation.

I've been working towards designing a kick-*** DAC for a couple of years, on and off.

Any results, so far?

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Originally Posted by abraxalito

How much would you like to spend?

I'd like to spend $1.00, I can spend up to about $2,000.00, possibly a little more.

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Originally Posted by abraxalito

Curious though that you are working towards upgrading what you consider to be a strong link in your system. Why would you do that?

To have even better sound quality, though, as I wrote above, I can live happily with my present digital source for the rest of my life.

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Originally Posted by abraxalito

I'd suggest for digital playback getting rid of the preamp altogether. That'd be a step up - get a DAC which has inbuilt gain control and wire it directly to your Pass poweramps using a balanced interconnect as short as possible.

It's not applicable in my case, at least not right now.
The only candidate I'm aware of is the AMR DP-777, alas it has only RCA analog inputs, while I'd like my turntable (and possibly future R-R tape) to work balanced. Also, if the analog output section of the DP-777 is the same as the CD-777, it doesn't have true balanced output.

Perhaps in the future Thorsten will come up with a DAC having balanced analog inputs and true balanced output, in the same price range of the DP-777. Such a DAC could be the ultimate solution for me.

(Thorsten, do you hear my plea?)

Quote:

Originally Posted by abraxalito

So do I take it that your stereo set-up is not an aspect of your walk as a human being but something that operates by a different set of values? If so I can only suggest more integration means greater happiness. Changes, as in upgrades, come from within.

Well, my stereo setup is a major part of myself as a human being at this point in time. However I make a distinction between my present state and the path of growth. The path of human and spiritual growth has nothing to do with any material possessions. Thus I do like to upgrade my stereo setup to the best sound quality I can attain with the money and skills I have, however, it doesn't mean attaining the final goal of human and spiritual evolution.