What is our destro lock doing wrong?

Our destro lock seems to be under performing all of our other dps (and sometimes the tanks). I do not have a clue how to play a warlock so I was hoping someone on here could shed some light on the issue for me.

Our destro lock seems to be under performing all of our other dps (and sometimes the tanks). I do not have a clue how to play a warlock so I was hoping someone on here could shed some light on the issue for me.

He have 34 melee swings on one Durumu attempt with KJC, is he pausing between casts? Clicking?

Not really dps problem per se, but not taking Soul Leech as destro is crime. And Life Drain/Demon training glyph over Siphon Life? Shadowfury over Mortail Coil? A lock dying in raid first (like him on Iron Qon) brings great shame to our class.

At his ilvl I would be playing as affliction. If he wants to stick with Destro then he really should re-gem. Crit is not that great of a stat for Destruction.

This is so wrong, as destro there are 2 ways of building it, crit build or mastery build. the reason why people change to demo or affli is because the meta (which gives haste, scales horribly as destro). Still it is amazing for some fights. In any case it would be to switch from crit to mastery since mastery favors aoe, which is in where destro excels. Talens are wrong, and drain life glyph is bad as well. Destro easily the best self heal in game, so it should focus on getting shields instead. You NEVER want to use drainlife as destro.

Solution, Make him go for a mastery build, change his talents and glyphs.

This is so wrong, as destro there are 2 ways of building it, crit build or mastery build. the reason why people change to demo or affli is because the meta (which gives haste, scales horribly as destro). Still it is amazing for some fights. In any case it would be to switch from crit to mastery since mastery favors aoe, which is in where destro excels. Talens are wrong, and drain life glyph is bad as well. Destro easily the best self heal in game, so it should focus on getting shields instead. You NEVER want to use drainlife as destro.

Solution, Make him go for a mastery build, change his talents and glyphs.

Um...okay, what? How exactly is that so wrong?

At his higher ilvl (with set bonus and meta) he should not be in Destro. If he is going to stay destro he needs to regem/forge. Haste/Mastery are far superior to the crit build. The crit build is generally for individuals in a low ilvl, lacking meta, set bonus...which he is not.

Again. If he does not want to go Affliction he needs to regem/reforge.

This is so wrong, as destro there are 2 ways of building it, crit build or mastery build. the reason why people change to demo or affli is because the meta (which gives haste, scales horribly as destro). Still it is amazing for some fights. In any case it would be to switch from crit to mastery since mastery favors aoe, which is in where destro excels. Talens are wrong, and drain life glyph is bad as well. Destro easily the best self heal in game, so it should focus on getting shields instead. You NEVER want to use drainlife as destro.

Solution, Make him go for a mastery build, change his talents and glyphs.

I don't 100% agree with this. My 516 ilvl Warlock (used to be, got some pieces and haven't run it since) simmed highest with a stack haste > crit > mastery build, not once, something like 10+ runs with 25k iterations, I'm not arguing with the fact that the other speccs are performing better, but before I get the Lei Shen trinket, Destro is #1 for me in most fights that aren't pure multidot.

Mastery build is the worst for single target even if it's the best for AoE I'd say rather go for haste > mastery because of how the fights play out and judging by the fact that he's underperforming, he'd probably not benefit from a mastery built to abuse low HP mobs.

The difference between haste and mastery stacking was ~10k DPS single target, haste and crit was ~7k IIRC.

The latest sims I've ran has shown that crit is superior once again (525~ish ilvl without meta and lei shen trinket), but haste were better for a good 30 ilvls in between now and 490. But all those sims have been 10k without stat weigths nor anything just a quick sim to get an idea.

OfT:
While we're at it, what kind of fight is Tortos HC? I'm thinking a haste > mastery > crit build but I can't figure out where the damage prio acctualy is as I haven't tried it yet.

Um...okay, that is basically what I said. How exactly is that so wrong?

At his higher ilvl (with set bonus and meta) he should not be in Destro. If he is going to stay destro he needs to regem/forge. Haste/Mastery are far superior to the crit build. The crit build is generally for individuals in a low ilvl, lacking meta, set bonus...which he is not.

Again. If he does not want to go Affliction he needs to regem/reforge.

If he wants to keep playing as destro then goin full crit is totally fine. This post is about how can he improve his destro spec, not his warlock spec. Gems and enchants are fine. its just about his play style. I myself do durumu H and primordius H as destro, and i used to do Horridon H as destro too.

OfT:
While we're at it, what kind of fight is Tortos HC? I'm thinking a haste > mastery > crit build but I can't figure out where the damage prio acctualy is as I haven't tried it yet.

Depending on how you do it, you can get a shit ton of ember if the group is kiting bats and you just toss out your rain of fire. If you do that I would go mastery for massive chaos bolting. But that said, it's also very beneficial if the group just got there to have the warlock play affli and use soulburn: curse of exhaustion(glyphed) on turtles so they aren't all over the place, but you can probably get away with destro if you have someone else putting up a decent slow. Also, ALWAYS play with soul link on that fight, it is by far the best talent you can have, you will never have to refresh the shield.

on topic, the lil guy is casting far too few chaos bolts it feels like or at least he is not tracking his trinkets and just use his chaos bolts randomly instead. He should have a tracker for when he got procs up and use his embers on chaos bolts or shadowburn when they are up and otherwise just pool them unless he's closing in on 4 embers, never have full ember.

I would check out sparkuggz destro guide on youtube, he's called sparkuggz on there as well

If he wants to keep playing as destro then goin full crit is totally fine. This post is about how can he improve his destro spec, not his warlock spec. Gems and enchants are fine. its just about his play style. I myself do durumu H and primordius H as destro, and i used to do Horridon H as destro too.

No. At his ilvl, meta gem, and set bonus going full crit is just a bad idea. Mastery/Haste would increase his dps, staying crit>all is just a bad idea.

Mastery build is the worst for single target even if it's the best for AoE I'd say rather go for haste > mastery because of how the fights play out and judging by the fact that he's underperforming, he'd probably not benefit from a mastery built to abuse low HP mobs.

And how many single target, tank and spank exist in ToT? Mastery build is much, much, much, much better. First all the trash, then horridon has adds, council, tortos, Megaera, ji-kun nest, Primordius a fight built for a mastery build, and Lei Shen. All of those fights have adds.

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Originally Posted by Luis Oscar

If he wants to keep playing as destro then goin full crit is totally fine. This post is about how can he improve his destro spec, not his warlock spec. Gems and enchants are fine. its just about his play style. I myself do durumu H and primordius H as destro, and i used to do Horridon H as destro too.

I don't 100% agree with this. My 516 ilvl Warlock (used to be, got some pieces and haven't run it since) simmed highest with a stack haste > crit > mastery build, not once, something like 10+ runs with 25k iterations, I'm not arguing with the fact that the other speccs are performing better, but before I get the Lei Shen trinket, Destro is #1 for me in most fights that aren't pure multidot.

Mastery build is the worst for single target even if it's the best for AoE I'd say rather go for haste > mastery because of how the fights play out and judging by the fact that he's underperforming, he'd probably not benefit from a mastery built to abuse low HP mobs.

The difference between haste and mastery stacking was ~10k DPS single target, haste and crit was ~7k IIRC.

The latest sims I've ran has shown that crit is superior once again (525~ish ilvl without meta and lei shen trinket), but haste were better for a good 30 ilvls in between now and 490. But all those sims have been 10k without stat weigths nor anything just a quick sim to get an idea.

OfT:
While we're at it, what kind of fight is Tortos HC? I'm thinking a haste > mastery > crit build but I can't figure out where the damage prio acctualy is as I haven't tried it yet.

Sims are horrible, they are so many things that are not considered that you cannot really trust them. Playing a warlock is 90% the time taking advantage of the mechanics, almost to the point of abusing them. Haste scales horribly, at my 543 ilvl in a haste build everyone seems to beat me incredibly easy, since i should be hitting hard, not faster, i already have the required speed by the gear and meta alone. The diff between crit and mastery is that crit favors single target, and mastery aoe target. Without thinking about the OP (Cuz he just wants to improve his destro spec), you would go for a haste to one of the 2 breakpoints and then go full mastery for a demo spec, then keep destro as an off spec for certain fights. But since this is not the case, he can do well enough by having a crit build. The key for this one is to time his chaos bolts correctly, they hit really really hard if speced for them.

And as i told you, its all about how you handle mechanics, even with my super crappy spec as destro I out DPS everyone in both prim H and durumu H since destro aoe is just retarded. IF i were to go mastery then thats just GG. My guess here is that he can easily be the AOER since destro excells at it, and by going mastery he is improving his already strong point. In crit single target, other classes would just out dps him.

And tortos H damage really depends on the way you do it, by kiting or killing bats, kitting Destro just rapes everyone. by killing bats then demo.

Mastery build is the worst for single target even if it's the best for AoE I'd say rather go for haste > mastery because of how the fights play out and judging by the fact that he's underperforming, he'd probably not benefit from a mastery built to abuse low HP mobs.

And how many single target, tank and spank exist in ToT? Mastery build is much, much, much, much better. First all the trash, then horridon has adds, council, tortos, Megaera, ji-kun nest, Primordius a fight built for a mastery build, and Lei Shen. All of those fights have adds.

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100% wrong.

Going haste for destro? lol, are you serious? And dont missinterpret what im saying. for destro there are 2 builds, Crit or Mastery, Crit favors single and double target. Mastery AOE target. its not about the Ads, its about how YOU use the ads. Try Horridon in a crit build by constantly shadowburning horridon with the low hp ads. your damage will skyrocket not because of the add killing but because of horridon getting raped by burns and chaos bolts. It depends on the fight composition. but suggesting Haste is just plain retarded. Care to show your lock gear and progress to support your claims?

Going haste for destro? lol, are you serious? And dont missinterpret what im saying. for destro there are 2 builds, Crit or Mastery, Crit favors single and double target. Mastery AOE target. its not about the Ads, its about how YOU use the ads. Try Horridon in a crit build by constantly shadowburning horridon with the low hp ads. your damage will skyrocket not because of the add killing but because of horridon getting raped by burns and chaos bolts. It depends on the fight composition. but suggesting Haste is just plain retarded. Care to show your lock gear and progress to support your claims?

I agree. The first part about haste was not me. I am saying there are more fights in ToT with adds where mastery is going to shine as opposed to crit. Also my lock is nothing special. Ilvl 530 w/just a 12/12 normal. However I play demo w/a dest offspec that goes about 2% over the hit cap(trinket switch) and from the one log I can see I do about 50k more dps then him on animus and about a 100k on Primordius.[/

I agree. The first part about haste was not me. I am saying there are more fights in ToT with adds where mastery is going to shine as opposed to crit. Also my lock is nothing special. Ilvl 530 w/just a 12/12 normal. However I play demo w/a dest offspec that goes about 2% over the hit cap(trinket switch) and from the one log I can see I do about 50k more dps then him.

The OP described on the first post is failing because of the mechanics. Gems and enchants r fine. Talents and glyphs are not. However the issue is that he doesnt know how to use the class, and much less abuse the mechanics. And yes, ideally demo owns cuz of UVoLS.

Going haste for destro? lol, are you serious? And dont missinterpret what im saying. for destro there are 2 builds, Crit or Mastery, Crit favors single and double target. Mastery AOE target. its not about the Ads, its about how YOU use the ads. Try Horridon in a crit build by constantly shadowburning horridon with the low hp ads. your damage will skyrocket not because of the add killing but because of horridon getting raped by burns and chaos bolts. It depends on the fight composition. but suggesting Haste is just plain retarded. Care to show your lock gear and progress to support your claims?

Ok, let us try this one more time.

Critical strike is a good stat, no one is saying that it is a dumpster diving stat. What is being exclaimed over and over is that it is not a optimal stat. Critical becomes a less than desirable stat once an individual reaches a particular ilvl, obtains the meta gem, RPPM trinkets, and set bonus (just as this particular Warlock in the OP has done). Additionally, the fights in ToT favor AoE and thus RoF ember generation. This precisely where haste shines. It is also one of the reasons that RoF ember generation is being nerfed in 5.4.

I do enjoy the fact that you automatically reach for someone to show their lock gear and progress to support their respective claims. If we went by that then the OP's warlock raider should not be having the issues they are having. An individuals ilvl/progression≠anything.

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Originally Posted by Luis Oscar

The OP described on the first post is failing because of the mechanics. Gems and enchants r fine. Talents and glyphs are not. However the issue is that he doesnt know how to use the class, and much less abuse the mechanics. And yes, ideally demo owns cuz of UVoLS.

My char is Nyanchan at Frostmourne

He did? Odd, I thought the OP was complaining about how the Warlock in their raid was under-preforming the rest of the DPS. How can you state that gems and enchants are fine, yet talents/glyphs are not? His talents/glyphs are not hindering his/her dps at all. Which is all this thread is about.

Fair enough though, I'm out.

OP, if the Warlock in question really wants to stick with Destruction I would have them read through Brusalk's guide.

Critical strike is a good stat, no one is saying that it is a dumpster diving stat. What is being exclaimed over and over is that it is not a optimal stat. Critical becomes a less than desirable stat once an individual reaches a particular ilvl, obtains the meta gem, RPPM trinkets, and set bonus (just as this particular Warlock in the OP has done). Additionally, the fights in ToT favor AoE and thus RoF ember generation. This precisely where haste shines. It is also one of the reasons that RoF ember generation is being nerfed in 5.4.

I do enjoy the fact that you automatically reach for someone to show their lock gear and progress to support their respective claims. If we went by that then the OP's warlock raider should not be having the issues they are having. An individuals ilvl/progression≠anything.

What bothers me is how you are talking about a class without actually knowing whats happening behind. Crit and mastery both shine, specially for the reasons you are giving without actually thinking carefully about them. Meta and trinks proc? guess what, it means nothing because you are already bellow the 1sec GCD. THIS is why haste gets really bad for a lock in higher levels. And please get your facts straight, RoF is not being nerfed because of the ember regeneration, it is being nerfed because it was never supposed to be used for regeneration in single target dps. It has been stated multiple times in blue posts how it just feels akward. fights in tot do not favor aoe, per se. I can think of 3 only, Primordius, durumu and lei shen. (For a lock) They favor multidotting which is NOT the same thing, and which is the reason why demon with UVoLS is doing ridiculiously good, and which is the reason both RPPM initial proc pool and the everlasting glyph are BOTH getting changed. And I aggree, ilvl means nothing, but progression DOES matter, because to actually progress you would have to have already studied the fights which r harder to just get carried by. Tried multiple strats, etc etc. from the 13/13 ive learnt fairly good what works well on every case. Im not saying im the best, but i know very well how a crit build would excel if you time correctly for single fights, and snipe the burns. or if you go for a mastery for aoe fights. But going haste is just horrible. Even the warlock bonus boosts regeneration. Destro locks must make their hits count, not focus on baster hitting (as affli does by stacking haste making dots hit faster and reaching breakpoints)