I know you didn't mean it like this, but that just sounds like an 'it's not my problem' attitude. It annoys me when people in the UK don't see things like this as their problem. Behaviour and opinions like this need to be challenged! The BNP have only ever achieved any success through voter apathy and people thinking 'well, they'll never actually get in'.

No, it isn't nice that a child will be without his Mother this Christmas, but frankly the alternative is that he will spend it with a racist who will inflict this poisonous view on him...

No, I certainly didn't mean it like that at all!

Of course it is a problem. But I don't believe the voter apathy thing is true. I think the BNP got votes because, sadly, people voted for them. And as much as I hate to sound like I'm defending the racists ... I don't believe the way you or I vote will change them having those views. That's a long term thing that needs to be addressed through education primarily. And I guess there's also an argument for 'well, there'll always be people who think like that'. All we can do is make it illegal for them to voice their views and in the long term try and better educate them. Try and get them to think differently.

I just don't think shoving her in prison is going to do much, except maybe make her a bit more angry?

By your own rationale you would make it illegal but then not jail someone if they broke the law.

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I have no idea who any of them are, apart from Terry Pratchett who I know has got a beard and keeps going on about killing himself but never does.

By your own rationale you would make it illegal but then not jail someone if they broke the law.

Yeah, you're right.

I would make it illegal, but no I wouldn't jail them. If you read through what I wrote you'll see that I consider jail time for this particular offense as excessive, and probably in the long term counter-productive to her mindset. I believe some form community service would be much more effected as a punishment.

That's what I said, by my own rationale. Read things!

Punishment isn't just about jail. Jail achieves very little other than keeping somebody off the streets should they be deemed a danger to the public.

I don't think you are too far off the mark in a lot of what you are saying but I would disagree with you in this instance.

Plus, didn't the courts state that they were kleeping her in for her own safety as her address was circulated via fb & twitter?

Sorry if I sounded a little heated there... I just very often think jail is such an counter-productive punishment. I think we're behind many countries in that regard.

Yeah I see the logic in keeping her in for her own safety, I must admit... but I just find the whole thing massively disproportionate to the actual event. And it has only become massively disproportionate because of our own curiosity.

I just don't think she should be punished anymore harshly than somebody who hadn't been filmed, because we as the public, in our own curiosity, chose to watch a video with the words 'racist woman tram abuse' and got angry.

The jail time should also discourage anyone else from trying this though. If nothing else, everyone getting outraged about it is showing that the BNP's argument of 'she's just saying what everyone else is thinking' is absolute crap...

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I am making a mental list of those who are snickering, and even as I speak I'm preparing appropriate retribution...!

FAR-RIGHT groups have hijacked the case of a woman accused of hurling racist abuse at tram passengers.

Members of the British National Party (BNP) and the English Defence League (EDL) turned out in court this week to support Emma West.

A video of the mother-of-two apparently abusing black, Asian and Polish passengers while holding her four-year-old son has been watched by more than 11 million people since it was posted on YouTube on November 27.

Her subsequent arrest and charge for committing a racially-aggravated public order offence has led the 34-year-old's cause to be adopted by the far right.

BNP leader Nick Griffin posted a message of support on social networking site Twitter before West appeared at Croydon Magistrates' Court on Tuesday.

After West was remanded in custody, meaning she will spend Christmas behind bars, her supporters shouted "treason" and "what a disgrace" from the public gallery.

Former Croydon Central BNP candidate Clifford Le May sat in the public gallery and nodded in approval as magistrates were shown the YouTube video, shot by another passenger using a cameraphone, called My Tram Experience.

He was joined by BNP mayoral candidate Carlos Cortiglia and Dave Clarke, who stood in Heathfield ward in the local elections last year, as well as a member of the EDL.

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

I'm wondering if this went on unheard of in the past before people videoed it on their phones. As much as I get angry about these kid of people, the look on the little girls face, of terror and sympathy, says it all.

Slightly off topic, me and the missus helped push a car up a hill in the snow on Saturday night. The driver was a little African lady. She clearly couldn't drive up the hill (she had no clutch control at all), and me and the missus got more frustrated. 2 guys came to help, and after a short time pushing and struggling, one of them commented "if I'd had known she was black I'd have not bothered" My wife pointed out that she was mixed race herself, and the lads' comment was "yeah, but you're not proper black" and his mate said "or a paki". Thankfully we'd finished pushing the car, and as the 2 lads were as big as me and clearly they'd had a drink, I scuttled off feeling guilty for not making more of it. I felt like a coward then. As do these people who share the tram journeys with these scum bags and say nothing.

I'm wondering if this went on unheard of in the past before people videoed it on their phones. As much as I get angry about these kid of people, the look on the little girls face, of terror and sympathy, says it all.

Slightly off topic, me and the missus helped push a car up a hill in the snow on Saturday night. The driver was a little African lady. She clearly couldn't drive up the hill (she had no clutch control at all), and me and the missus got more frustrated. 2 guys came to help, and after a short time pushing and struggling, one of them commented "if I'd had known she was black I'd have not bothered" My wife pointed out that she was mixed race herself, and the lads' comment was "yeah, but you're not proper black" and his mate said "or a paki". Thankfully we'd finished pushing the car, and as the 2 lads were as big as me and clearly they'd had a drink, I scuttled off feeling guilty for not making more of it. I felt like a coward then. As do these people who share the tram journeys with these scum bags and say nothing.

You should never feel like that mate. You did a good thing to help the women and there would be nothing you could say to change the mindset of those two bellends.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanm21

quote:

ORIGINAL: jonson

I'm wondering if this went on unheard of in the past before people videoed it on their phones. As much as I get angry about these kid of people, the look on the little girls face, of terror and sympathy, says it all.

Slightly off topic, me and the missus helped push a car up a hill in the snow on Saturday night. The driver was a little African lady. She clearly couldn't drive up the hill (she had no clutch control at all), and me and the missus got more frustrated. 2 guys came to help, and after a short time pushing and struggling, one of them commented "if I'd had known she was black I'd have not bothered" My wife pointed out that she was mixed race herself, and the lads' comment was "yeah, but you're not proper black" and his mate said "or a paki". Thankfully we'd finished pushing the car, and as the 2 lads were as big as me and clearly they'd had a drink, I scuttled off feeling guilty for not making more of it. I felt like a coward then. As do these people who share the tram journeys with these scum bags and say nothing.

You should never feel like that mate. You did a good thing to help the women and there would be nothing you could say to change the mindset of those two bellends.

Agree with Titan - you did a good samaritan deed and the woman was helped out of trouble. The fact that those two twats helped when they ended up not wanting to as well only puts the egg on their faces.

Interestingly, on the "you're not proper black" comment, some racists (/idiotic braindead cunts) think people of mixed race are "worse" than people of pure race. Which kind of shows up racism as the pathetic and pointless thing that it is.

I can empathise though, you do feel like you should have done something.

I can remember when I was 15/16, walking through town with a friend at around midnight. I walked past an old (60ish) black guy who nodded and smiled only for two knuckledraggers (again who'd had too much pop) to start having a go at him for "taking their jobs". They pushed him around while we walked off looking at each other in shock, but we should have done something.

So what if we got a bit of a kicking or in reality it might have only been a mouthful. We should have said something, and done something. I saw this same friend recently, and he mentioned it again even though it was 20 years ago and we don't see each other regularly. Its obviously stayed with both of us and I still feel we shouldn't have walked on by.

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I'm your huckleberry...

All the world will be your enemy, Prince of a Thousand enemies. And when they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you; digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed.