This Hobby Lobby Reserves The Right To Search Your Car

By cwaltersAugust 16, 2010

A tipster in Louisville, Kentucky snapped this photo of a small warning sign taped to the window of his local Hobby Lobby. According to the sign, the store reserves the right to go through pretty much anything you happen to be carrying with you, plus your car. But shoppers shouldn’t feel too bad, because the sign says you can refuse and be escorted from the premises.

I order from Blick’s website 2-3 times a year to stock up on supplies, they frequently have deals on their website for $5 shipping. Save up for a larger order and it’s worth it for the convenience and their customer service people are really great.

I also have to give a thumbs up for the downtown Chicago Blick, too. Employees are always able to answer your questions, and they have little scratch pads and testers so you can see how the products work.
Being Chicago, they’re always watching you for security reasons, but at least you get prompt service.

I think your a little off there. Its not that we have no protection, its that they really have no right to do anything to us. I believe at the worst they can order you off the property for not following their rules and have you charged with trespassing if you refuse to leave.

If they say show me whats in your bag and you say no, they have no punitive measures they can take except to tell you to leave the store.

We have the same protections from corporations (as customers in a store) as we do from any other random person on the street.

I wouldnt allow joe schmoe next to me in line at the movies to search my car no matter how fancy his sign was or how logical the reason.

Realistically, if I was walking out of a store and an employee asked to search either my person or my vehicle, Id tell them to bounce. They can call the police if they wish and Ill deal directly with them if I already haven’t left on my way to wherever I was heading.

It’s private property, and as such, they have the right to search you upon entering their property. It’s the same legality that goes into being searched when entering goverment offices, the airport or highrises in Chicago and New York. If I drive my car to Watertower Place, they search the trunk. If I refuse, they refuse to let me onto their property.

This is completely different than a cop searching someone. When you’re on private property, your expectations of privacy from the owner of that property immediately cease.

No they donâ€™t have a right to search me! Just by stepping upon their property doesn’t give anyone the right to detain me, search my person or hamper my freedom of movement in any fashion!

I don’t care if they have a neon sign that flashes we reserve the right to do whatever – I have a constitutional right to say go climb a tree and laugh in their face and simply continue on my way. And if you attempt to detain me be prepared for the consequences of your actions for that is illegal detainment assault if attempted with force.

What you are talking about is also referred to as false imprisonment and it has nothing to do with this topic. This has nothing to do with detainment at all in fact, but rather searches. While they have no right to physically take your bags from you and search them without your permission, they do have the right to ask for permission. If you refuse, they then have the right to have you removed from their property. That is what the sign says, and they do have every right to do so.

That’s true, but neither do they. The police have the authority to compel you, a private citizen or corporation does not, therefore there is no need for a constitutional right limiting when and where private individuals can search you, since they have no right to do so in the first place.

If a cop lays hands on you, there are significant legal penalties for any sort of resistance; A simple involuntary twitch can be a felony. It can also get you clubbed, shot or TASERed.

But if some random guy walks up to you and does the same, you are allowed to duck out of his grip, or push his hands off you. A store employee, even on the premises of their place of employment, has the same legal standing as a random passerby, unless they can prove you are a shoplifter! If they cannot prove it to the reasonable suspicion standard without a bag search, they cannot legally search at all. Of course, if nobody ever broke the law, we wouldn’t need police. But make no mistake, someone forcibly searching a bag just because they dislike your looks is a criminal.

They can take that sign and use it for birdcage liner. I didn’t sign anything, and by simply walking into the premises, I haven’t entered into and haven’t agreed to any contract. There was no meeting of the minds, no consideration given, so it’s not a valid contract by any stretch of the imagination.

PLUS, they can’t even prove that I saw it, read it, or understood it. So Fuck You Hobby Lobby. The minute you touch me to search me for anything will be the worst time of your life.

I had some WorstBuy schmuck try this “gonna search your case” (it was a Newton Messagepad case) about 15 years ago, and he grabbed my arm. I said “no you’re not. Release me or suffer the consequences.”. He didn’t let go, so he suffered the consequences. I left.

Same deal for anyone trying that crap – stick with the “I didn’t know what was going on, I feared for my life and defended myself”.

Yea, I caught that also – “Employees” – I’m wondering if that sign is on a door to the back room where employees go – or at least suppose to be… or maybe even some corporate office, and not retail store.

They’d need a police officer with a warrant inside the store too, unless they already had enough evidence of shoplifting that the search is simply confirmation at worst and entirely redundant at best.

Property rights are equal. Standing on someone else’s property does not reduce your rights to your own. The sole remedy a property owner has for your ownership of something they don’t like is to order you to leave under penalty of a trespassing charge.

I think there needs to be some context for the sign. In what kind of neighborhood is that particular store? If you read the full text, it refers to “persons entering” and employees as well, so I think it’s more of a catchall sign to warn kids who might think it thrilling to swipe some merchandise, or employees who might be tempted to steal from the job that they might get caught because the store says it can search you.

When I worked retail, supervisors wanted to look in our bags before we left our shift. There was never a written statement, but they were very upfront about it being policy.

Bag Check policies are disgusting. You have an expectation of privacy within your own purse or bag. The only reason no one has sued over it is because it’s usually retail overlords targeting their very under-paid employees. Now, search someone’s desk at a corporate job and suddenly there are lots of previous suits to look up.

Not an uncommon act for stores. Cuts down on the “oh, I brought this in with me” crowd.

I was recently shopping for camera supplies and I needed my camera with me. I went to Wolfs, Frys, Best Buy, Bass Pro Shops, etc and asked to have my bag reviewed before I entered. Best Buy and Frys wanted to do it before I asked, the other didn’t. I didn’t need a shoplifting issue over my camera and lenses.

Econobiker beat me to it. It’s not uncommon for people to scam stores by bringing in old, damaged goods or stuff they bought at another chain to exchange for new goods or store credit.
Good to know Blueberry Scone is so honest… or maybe just so naive…

This seems to be oriented at the employees as much as the customers. There seem to be more than a few inconsistencies with HL; the cashier at our local store has some of the most obvious prison tats I’ve ever seen on his hands. I got a feeling if he ever raised his shirt, we’d be looking at swastikas. I’d stop going, but where else can I find Christmas supplies in August? Somethings I just won’t give up.

They certainly have the right to ask. And, should you decide to refuse, the right to ask you to leave their property and never come back.

They do not, however, have the right to search your person or belongings without your consent, and they acknowledge this, saying that if you do not consent, you will be escorted off the premises.

Naturally, if they have a well-founded suspicion that you may be in possession of their property, they could detain you while calling for the police, who do have the right to search your person or belongings, should they determine that there is probable cause to believe you may hiding items belonging to the shop on your person or in your belongings.

I doubt, however, that a refusal to consent to a search constitutes probable cause. Not that this necessarily will prevent a police officer from violating your rights by searching you anyway….

I dunno. It’s on their property – so I wonder if it’s okay at that point.
I’ve been to quite a few stores that will search your backbacks and keep them up front.
As for the parking lot – in one of the high schools I went to they searched in car windows. but I think they may have been school police officers.

The short answer is that you can agree to waive a civil claim, and they can require a waiver before they do business with you. It’s not much of a criminal thing unless they’re breaking your car’s locks, and even then you can technically consent to it. However to actually CYA they should have customers sign something; a posted notice may not be enough (it would certainly be a fight).

There are places, e.g. parking in prisons, border crossings, where you do agree to searches. The fact they say it’s for security doesn’t make it more or less legal. People can simply do an awful lot to you if you consent to it.

Border crossings are a function of the customs service, which is explicitly exempted from the fourth amendment when carrying out its duties. No contract involved, whether they have a sign up or not makes no difference. But posting signs advising people of the law tends to reduce arguments.

But in any case, posting a sign doesn’t grant anyone any rights that they don’t already have, and it certainly doesn’t override any laws.

I don’t know what Hobby Lobby sells, but I would never enter a store with a sign like that, no matter how much I wanted to buy something they were selling. Just entering the store seems like you’re saying you agree with the principle.

True. I feel I must endure the religious Muzak because Michael’s is so understocked on products for traditional studio artists, though Hobby Lobby is only a little bit better. I guess that’s how it is in the Bible Belt.
Wish there was a Dick Blick in Kansas, they’ve got almost everything, but internet shipping is crazy expensive.

Most likely you enter places with this policy all the time. This is the policy of most every retailer in the country. They think you are shopplifting, they can ask to search your bag. You say no, you are asked to leave. This isn’t news and is the SOP of most any major retailer.

I would LOVE to see them try and search someone’s car. They could be charged with trespass. Geez, do they not have a legal department? I can’t imagine any sane lawyer would have let them post the sign this way.

Also, it is beyond unprofessional to put on a sign at a store entrance that you will terminate employees for not cooperating with this policy. That is a human resources/private issue that should not be posted for customers to see. So glad no Hobby Lobby in my area.

Actually, no — not to make fun, but to illustrate a point. If one doesn’t mind “proving” they didn’t steal anything by showing a receipt at the door, then they shouldn’t mind “proving” they didn’t steal anything by allowing them to search (everyone’s) car as they leave the parking lot (and probably performing a receipt check THERE, too.)

“Oh, you bought that item with the (Hobby Lobby price tag) on it LAST week and you just haven’t taken it out of your car yet? Well let me see the receipt. Oh, it’s at home on the kitchen counter? Bzzzzt.. You’re going to jail, buddy!”

Indeed – I buy a lot of high end tvs for clients. When I need the TV yesterday and Best Buy for Business isn’t available, I buy at the Newbury St. store because I can just walk / 2 minute cab trip to the client. The first time I walked out without showing the receipt, the yellow shirt tried to stop me. I told him to review the tapes and I’m not stopping. It isn’t my fault that I cannot buy the TV at the register nearest the door. They force me to buy the TV near the TVs. Change the business model. Don’t inconvenience me because your employees steal too much stuff.

Odds are they’d note down your license plate number, but so what? If they call the police before reviewing the tapes, that’s filing a false police report, which is a crime. And if you didn’t steal it, the tapes (and POS record) prove that.

Just let them search your car. And you know what, it’d be OK if they wanted to search your house too, right? And your neighbor’s place too…none of you have anything to hide, right, so what’s the big deal?

(This is the next step after mandatory receipt checking, folks! And the exact same excuses you use for why everyone should submit to mandatory receipt checking applies to car searches too. You are just rolling out the red carpet for this…)

I love that people are bringing the Constitution and “trespassing” into this. It’s as simple as this: while this policy may be a little boneheaded, they are free to enforce it as condition for allowing you on their property. It would be illegal to force you to allow them to search your belongings, but force means actual force – not just that you won’t be able to get your craft fix on if you refuse.

You are absolutely correct that the Fourth Amendment doesn’t apply in this case. However, in our system of law, rights are inherent to the person, not granted by the government, so the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights belong to you whether the party who would infringe on them is the government or some store. Just because your neighbor isn’t a government agent doesn’t mean that he has the right to search you, cruelly or unusually punish you, or quarter troops in your house.

The main reason the restriction on behavior represented by the first ten amendments is not generally applied to non-governmental actors, is because only the government has the authority to legally compel obedience. If an ordinary citizen attempts such compulsion, it is no different from a mugger, robber or any other criminal attempting to compel obedience.

Someone who uses force the resist government is a criminal. Someone who uses force to resist a violent criminal is a hero.

There are similar signs at construction sites. It is acceptable there.
Open lunchbox? Toolbag? Sure, no problem!
The girl at the local supermarket checkout looked at me strange when I would do it out of force of habit.
I consider it unprofessional for businesses to post these things. Treating your customers like roustabouts is not good for business.

The Hobby Lobby around here leases one little suite in a large strip mall building from an even larger investment firm. That means that Hobby Lobby does not own the property. As such, they have absolutely no legal right whatsoever to search my car.

Note that the sign specifically says that they will ask for your consent before searching the car. If you don’t consent, they will escort you off the property. I absolutely don’t support this boneheaded policy, but constitutionally and legally it does seem sound.

Having a sign doesn’t grant any rights the store didn’t already have. If the sign is factual about the rights the store has, they don’t need to post a sign to do those things. If they lack the right they claim, then one sign or a hundred signs won’t grant it to them.

Hobby Lobby is not going to search through your belongings, your car, or even approach you… unless they actually see you take something from their store without paying for it. Why else would they search through your things? Every retailer has this right.

No, they absolutely do not have this right, but they sure hope people like you think they do. If they think they saw you take something, then they have the right to call the cops and/or ask you to leave, and that’s it. If they want to attempt more, then they can open themselves up to lawsuits.

They have the right to ask. They have the right to tell you not to come back. However, the phrasing on the sign suggests that you are giving permission just by entering.

My solution is easy- I would turn around and leave. There’s this totally wacky thing called the internet, I can find anything I want and have it shipped to my doorstep. For those of us living prior to 1995, there are still plenty of companies that put out catalogs with phone numbers or mail order forms. I have zero reason, other than convenience, to set foot in most B&M stores. If they want to make it feel far less convenient with an ambiguous statement about whether or not I am consenting to having my car searched, then that makes my choice of retailer that much easier.

and “Why else would they search your things?”
And only real criminals are arrested, and only suspicious people are pulled over, etc, etc. The “If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear” argument is, well, not really an argument at all.

They retain the right, as property owners, to condition your entry and continued presence on your consent to a search of your car. They aren’t claiming that they have the right to search your car without your permission — they’re saying that you don’t get to stay on the property if you don’t consent.

I think it’s a stupid policy, but assuming the policy isn’t applied in a discriminatory manner, I don’t see what the problem is.

Of course it is aimed at employees.
I worked for HOBLOB – they treated everyone like they were a thief.
Lockers were checked. You were not allowed to have anything that HobLob sells in your locker – including plastic utensils in your lunchbox – I honestly had to start bringing metal forks with my lunch or risk being fired. This also included pens in your purse, a candy bar in you lunch.
And god forbid you wanted to buy something from the store, you had to leave immediately after. So you couldn’t buy something before your shift or on your lunch.

First, this is illegal. Second, just because you post a sign saying you can do something doesn’t mean you can. You can still be sued. If you put a sign up “We are not responsible if you slip and fall in our store”….it means NOTHING. This sign is ridiculous.

My wife is a manager at a Walmart. The other night, a guy bought a laptop. He actually bought it and has his receipt in his hand. The greeter asks him if he can see the receipt. The guy completely flips out. My wife apologizes, but says it’s store policy for the greeter to ask to see a receipt. When he starts whining about his rights being violated, she calmly explained that since he was on private property, she had every right to ask to see the receipt. He still refuses to show. My wife then says “Sir, I believe that you bought the computer, but you refusing to show the reciept like this is making you look guilty.” He finally shows the receipt, and walks out.

What would have taken him 15 seconds…too 15 minutes.

If you have nothing to hide, stop bitching about your rights and show the receipt.

You do not have to show a receipt if you do not want to. A person is only required to do so in the club stores such as BJ’s or Costco, where they signed an agreement. Disagree?? Read more Consumerist they have done a ton of stories on the issue.

Personally, I find it offensive. How does walking out of a store with a bag of merchandise make me look “guilty”? After purchasing an item(s) how else would I get them out of the store? Leaving with your items is not suspicious.

I don’t get it. They would pretty much only want to search your car if you stole something and put it in your car, correct? And if you don’t consent to these rules, they ask you to leave, right?

So basically, what you do is steal something and put it in your car. They ask you if they can search it. You say no. They ask you to leave. So you get away with the stolen property. Am I not understanding something?

I don’t have the cleanest floor boards in my car. I wish someone would try to search it. I’d totally let them. They can sift through 6 months of unclean car trash accumulation. Time to go to Hobby Lobby.

Aside from the fact that saying you can doesn’t *mean* you can – do they even own the parking lot? I’ve seen stories where stores are not responsible for your car in the parking lot, partially because it’s not their property. So if it isn’t on their property, do they still “reserve the right”? What about if I left my car at home, are they gonna follow me home to check that car? I’m crafty, you never know what I might have put there!

The shoplifting scum in Louisville must be getting really bad. Too bad the courts don’t do any more than slap their wrists – those of us who DON’T steal from stores end up having to pay for the increased cost of doing business.

I saw the same sign at their store in Sterling Heights, MI (a nice ‘burb in the Detroit area), and I think it’s aimed at employees. Consequently, I think it’s pretty poor business to put it on the front door. That’s a pretty strongly worded edict to have greeting your customers.

The one and only time we went to Hobby Lobby, because of the way it was affixed to the moving part of a pocket door, I didn’t notice the sign until we were on our way out I took a quick peek, and commented to my girlfriend “let them come and try to search the car”.

I agree with the others that you can’t grant yourself a legal right by putting up a sign. If you could, I could establish a checkpoint in front of my house and demand that all passersby show ID, simply by putting up a sign.

Anyway, we didn’t find the store that appealing, and have never been back, so they don’t have to worry about searching our car, anyway.

hahaha reminds me of the time I went in to the Smithsonian (either that or some other public building in DC… sure that narrows it down) and forgot that there was certain sex toys in the front pocket. Needless to say, the lady security guard got eyes the size of saucers when she saw them. Oh well, that’s what you get for looking through my shit bwahahahaha!

As much as this sounds like a personnel issue it still begs the question, “When did all consumers become criminals?” It would seem to me, if a company is so distrustful of the public, they should probably find a different line of work.Maybe even move to China or central Africa or someplace like that.

I don’t shop at Hobby Lobby, and if I did, this would make me stop. A friend of mine once went to apply to work there and had to read and agree to a ten-page rights waiver which included things like waving your right to sue if someone sexually harassed you. Uh, yeah…NO. Needless to say, they did not apply.

Sign in toy store in Greensboro, NC: “Shoplifters will not be prosecuted. We take them out back and break their grubby little fingers”. I shopped there, I won’t be shopping at the new Hobby Lobby in town.

I live in Georgia. Before I entered ANY store posting such a sign, I would have to check local and state laws on searches by a private company. Does anyone know what states do, or don’t, allow privately owned companies to search privately owned vehicles in parking lots that are open to the public?

I have decided retailers that want to assault, search or disrupt anyones life at all need a taste of their own medicine. So next time one wants to search you or check your lawfully paid for merchandise. After they are finished remind them now you wish to have them searched because they touched your stuff & may have taken something not belonging to them. If they don’t consent perform a citizens arrest with necessary force since probable cause does exist with their personnel creating a bailee by touching your property. And Hobby Lobby I hope you have lots of insurance for the damage you do to someones vehicle when they notice the scratches left by your search.

They cannot avoid liability under any law I know of for the Bailee they create when their employees or so called guards create it by taking forced or voluntary possession same as any company does when they work with your property.

After they pay for enough scratches to peoples vehicles & for the cash you slipped in your bag they may start thinking twice about their approach.

Also in most cases Hobby Lobby shares parking lot with shopping centers so HOBBY LOBBY can K.M.A. & with all the recent published attacks by retailer personnel anyone would be very justified in defending their self with the fear of possible injury or death.

I used to work at Hobby Lobby. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. I won’t even step foot in one of those stores now. Stories of employee mistreatment, scuzzy management and shifty corporate level happenings aren’t hard to find. I met my girlfriend there though, so thats ok I suppose.

Exactly why I will not submit to retailer receipt checks, Assaults or any other Nazi treatment they try to dish out. If they or their employees wish to try I can & will defend myself with reasonable force matching the threat.

Well, I could get arrested for allowing them to search my stuff – because during the search my firearm would become un-concealed and I could actually go to jail for **that**. And if I tell them I’m not allowing them to search because I have a concealed weapon, I can be arrested for **that**. And of course, if the employee is under 18 I could be making a firearm available to a minor and again, be arrested.

So no, only a peace officer may search my property, and he needs probable cause or a warrant.

“Ma’am, we’d like to search your bag please.”
“No thank you.”
“Ma’am, it’s policy.”
“No, I have a gun.”
“Call the police! She’s got a gun and is threatening to shoot us all!”

I wouldn’t buy from that buybull thumping joint, but if someone tries that, I’ll be calling the cops myself.

If they want me searched, a cop will do it, not the store. When nothing is found, I expect that store employee to be arrested for harassment, false accusation, false imprisonment, and/or anything else that will stick.

And I reserve the right to defend myself with a well placed roundhouse to the jaw followed by an extremely painful wrenching wrist lock if your stupid enough to place a paw on me! All this while I place you under arrest for illegal search and seizure, imprisonment and assault if you place a hand on me.

Ok, wording aside, pretty much every retail establishment has policies about packages, etc being carried in by customers. They’re just trying to prevent theft (and therefore loss of revenue). Seems like a reasonable policy, even if the sign was written by an idiot with no understanding of the law.
As for my willingness to shop there, well, they’re far and away cheaper than Michael’s or Joann’s, and they have a better selection than Joann’s to boot. As a crafter type, I can tell you, cheap is good.

A lot of people on here seem to have both a complete misunderstanding of the law, and generally what the sign even says in the first place. People are going on about how it is a violation of constitutional rights, and they have no right to detain you or to look in your bag or your car or whatever.

First, they cannot force you to do anything you do not want to do with the exception of forcing you to leave their property. They don’t even claim that they can do so. They aren’t talking about taking anyone into custody. None of that.

All it says is that while you are on their property they may ASK your permission to search your car or your property (backpack, purse, whatever). There is nothing in the constitution or the law about making such a request. i can walk up to anyone on the street and ask the same thing. They also have every right to refuse and tell me that I may go fornicate with myself. The second thing the sign says is that if you deny their request, they may ask you to leave. It is private property. They have every right to ask you to leave. Just like you have every right to ask someone in your house to leave.

So I don’t know what all of this kneejerk screaming of constitutional rights is all about. They ask, you say no. no big deal. They as you to leave, you do, it’s their right. And like many people have stated, this is mostly directed at employees and possible shoplifters. And almost any retailer will ask a suspected shoplifter to empty their bag. Of course the person may refuse, but the store is in no way barred from asking. Calm down, people.