SkinsJock wrote:count me in the iScrub and DaSkinz 'club' - we need our coaching staff to do their jobs better

We have all seen the missed tackles and bad play by the defensive players - we have also seen the missed passes and bad play by the offensive players

BUT

the coaches are responsible for correcting the mistakes and helping the players not make bad plays

The QB was injured … he underwent surgery and the Dr and Robert agreed he was ready and able to play QB again - Mike would not have risked his QB if he was notTHENThe NFL made it clear to the coaches that in 2013, the refs were going to allow hits on QBs that they might not have called in 2012 - if a QB looked like a runner he could be tackled (and hit hard) even though he did not have the ball …Mike and Kyle decided that the new 'rule' PLUS the fact that they had a QB recovering from a (normally) devastating injury would mean that they were going to change the way they ran the offense …Robert is still getting acclimated to this and seems to be getting better handling the offense each week the offensive line is an issue but we have Mike and Kyle Shanahan here - these guys are meant to be really good at getting more out of their O line - they also have a bunch of really good players (QB, RB, TE, WRs & LT PLUS a TE weapon in Davis they don't use for some reason) the offense is doing well but we have made a lot of mistakes in game calling (getting away from the run game) - partly due to bad play but also poor coaching

I understand that Haslett is the DC but we all know that Mike has been VERY involved with 'helping' with the defense this season - this has not been good at all despite the return of some perceived playmakers - this failure to execute, and make tackles is partly on the players but it is also on the coaching too

all that being said … I think that this group will get another year here …. ONLY because the FO of Bruce and Mike have done a good job and the salary cap BS really hurt the rebuilding process

Jim Haslett and Mike Shanahack could have this year's Kansas City Defense and they too would suck under these "coaches" I would love to have one of the Ryans here or Lovie Smith for that matter on the defensive side coaching these players. You would see a big difference. I guess some people are just challenged when it comes to logical thinking Many on here talking about the offense being ranked 6 and that's on Kyle doing a good job, that is nothing more than that being RGIII to a point, Morris, Reed and Garcon. Kyle still isn't smart enough to put Fred Davis and Jordan Reed out on the field at the same time, but this fool will call plays where the second string running back is supposed to block a rushing defensive end on a known passing down and not move the pocket!!

Come one people you do realize that no matter how many times you polish a turd and no matter how much it shines it's still a turd right?????

Get Shanahan and the ENTIRE COACHING STAFF OUT OF HERE!!! THE SOONER THE BETTER............

skinsfan#33 wrote:I'm going to rant here for a second because I really think there are a lot of you here that know very little about football.

- is it the OC's or HC's fault if the QB misses a wide open receiver or the receiver drops the ball. I listen to Greg Cosell from NFL Films on "The Drive" every week and he basically says that most of the offensive problems are on the QB. RG3 is either throwing bad passes to or just not seeing wide open receivers. Yes, this was even true last week in Philly. He said on almost every passing play there was an open receiver, including the ill fated 3rd and 1. This is from a guy that knows more about football than all of us combined. So don't tell me the system isn't working. The execution of that system is the problem. The difference between this year and last year, in offense, is Griffin's play! Not the coaches.

- Some "brilliant person" here accused the coaches of using a Ferrari as a demolition derby car. That is just silly, they used a Ferrari as a Ferrari, they can't help it that the Ferrari drove its self into a dump truck and some pick up trucks.

- people here act like Kylec only has a job because of Mike. This is moronic! Kyle had the #1 passing game in Huston before coming here. He would have a job with our with it Mike. Look at this year, the team is#5 on offense with aQB that is playing poorly. Every good game they get out of Griffin, they either win or have a chance to win.

- Mike only had success with Steve Young or John Elway. Well neither of those two won a SB with out Mike either. They played for many years w/o him and never won a championship. They played with him as their coach for a few years each and they have a total of three SBs. Tom Landry never won anything w/o Roger the Dodger, same for Knoll/Bradshaw, Belicheat/Brady, or even Lombardi/Starr. So please give up those ridiculous "he never won anything with out" rants. You just sound stupid.

skinsfan#33 okay wait one minute, so what your post suggests is that this is all RGIII's fault?

No, I don't mean that, but I can see how my post makes it sound like i do. No Griffin is th biggest problem on OFFENSE. However, the offense is a distant third to defense and special teams. We can win with this offense, just not with this defense and special teams hanging around their necks. I blame MOST of the problems on those two units on their coordinators (and yes on Mike for hiring them). Is the defense the most talented D in the NFL; of course not! But they have just as much talent, if not more than the offense, but Kyle gets way more out of the offense than the other two coordinators do!

My rant was to defend Mike and Kyle, not to impugn Robert.

DaSkinz Baby wrote:If you honestly think that then perhaps you don't have the smarts regarding football you think you do. First off yes some blame goes to RGIII THAT IS FACT! However the bulk of this teams problems are based on coaching or lack of it.

I agree with this, except when you say coaching i restrict my agreement to the D and ST coaching. And by the way, it was Greg Cosell that said Griffin was the biggest problem on offense, but he also agrees that the offens is the smallest problem on the team.

DaSkinz Baby wrote:As an example, prior to Mike getting fired from Denver he had how many number 1 picks on the defensive line when Courtney Brown was also on that team? Take a look at Denver's defensive team in say 2006. As a matter of fact other then when they had the orange crush when did Denver EVER HAVE A GOOD DEFENSE that Shanahan could be attached too?

Here are his defenses in Denver and how they ranked with the exception of his first year (hold over from previous coach) and his last two (helped to get him fired):

I don't what you consider a good defens but right now i was give my left testicle (it bothers me a lot anyways) for this D to have that type of production!

by contrast the eleven season prior to Shanny our defense was:15th in pts and 13 in yrds

Ok, is that too far, how about from Gibbs to Shanny:13th and 11th

How about just under Zorn:12th and 7th

Shanny's Ds in Denver seem to stack up quite well.

DaSkinz Baby wrote:He comes here and decides to take the 4th ranked Defense and change it to a 3-4 where we had no 3-4 players.

Actually it was the 18th in pts and 10th in yds. The year before that it was 6th and 4th, but the i get your point the D was better. Even thought they couldn't create a turn over or score to save their lives (they hadn't scored on D in something like four years!)

DaSkinz Baby wrote:Then he hires of all people Jim Haslett who couldn't make it in New Orleans or St. Louis! and ever since Shanahan and Haslett has been here this defense has been ranked 28th thru 31st. But let me guess that RGIII's fault too right?

No, some of that is talent (lack there of), some is the switch to the 3-4, but MOST OF IT is on Haslett (IMHO). So we agree on that.

DaSkinz Baby wrote:Let's talk about Shanahan hiring Keith Burns as the Special Teams coach, and how have they played this year?

Unmitigated disaster, maybe the worst coordinator hire in the history of Redskins football!

DaSkinz Baby wrote:Now for the final nail in the coffin Mike Shanahan has not done nothing since John Elway retired, that is a cold hard bitter pill that you must swallow.

This is the dumbest of your points, because it simply ignore the thruth, Oh wait so did you defensive point.

In Denver, the ten years following Elway he had 2 losing seasons (how mant did we have during that time), he made the playoffs four times (us three - Gibbs 2.0 two, Norv - after six seasons - one), and a winning percentage of .57 (91-69) 22 games above 500. Do you even want me to show what we were during that time frame?

Now if you are one of those people that say he didn't win any play off games (which he did - one) or he didn't win a SB w/o Elway then you have a point, but Elway (or Steve Young) never won one w/o Shanny either.

"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
(It is time to roll the dice) Tai'shar Manetheren

"Duty is heavier than a Mountain, Death is lighter than a feather" Tai'shar Malkier

skinsfan#33 wrote:I'm going to rant here for a second because I really think there are a lot of you here that know very little about football.

- is it the OC's or HC's fault if the QB misses a wide open receiver or the receiver drops the ball. I listen to Greg Cosell from NFL Films on "The Drive" every week and he basically says that most of the offensive problems are on the QB. RG3 is either throwing bad passes to or just not seeing wide open receivers. Yes, this was even true last week in Philly. He said on almost every passing play there was an open receiver, including the ill fated 3rd and 1. This is from a guy that knows more about football than all of us combined. So don't tell me the system isn't working. The execution of that system is the problem. The difference between this year and last year, in offense, is Griffin's play! Not the coaches.

- Some "brilliant person" here accused the coaches of using a Ferrari as a demolition derby car. That is just silly, they used a Ferrari as a Ferrari, they can't help it that the Ferrari drove its self into a dump truck and some pick up trucks.

- people here act like Kylec only has a job because of Mike. This is moronic! Kyle had the #1 passing game in Huston before coming here. He would have a job with our with it Mike. Look at this year, the team is#5 on offense with aQB that is playing poorly. Every good game they get out of Griffin, they either win or have a chance to win.

- Mike only had success with Steve Young or John Elway. Well neither of those two won a SB with out Mike either. They played for many years w/o him and never won a championship. They played with him as their coach for a few years each and they have a total of three SBs. Tom Landry never won anything w/o Roger the Dodger, same for Knoll/Bradshaw, Belicheat/Brady, or even Lombardi/Starr. So please give up those ridiculous "he never won anything with out" rants. You just sound stupid.

skinsfan#33 okay wait one minute, so what your post suggests is that this is all RGIII's fault?

No, I don't mean that, but I can see how my post makes it sound like i do. No Griffin is th biggest problem on OFFENSE. However, the offense is a distant third to defense and special teams. We can win with this offense, just not with this defense and special teams hanging around their necks. I blame MOST of the problems on those two units on their coordinators (and yes on Mike for hiring them). Is the defense the most talented D in the NFL; of course not! But they have just as much talent, if not more than the offense, but Kyle gets way more out of the offense than the other two coordinators do!

My rant was to defend Mike and Kyle, not to impugn Robert.

DaSkinz Baby wrote:If you honestly think that then perhaps you don't have the smarts regarding football you think you do. First off yes some blame goes to RGIII THAT IS FACT! However the bulk of this teams problems are based on coaching or lack of it.

I agree with this, except when you say coaching i restrict my agreement to the D and ST coaching. And by the way, it was Greg Cosell that said Griffin was the biggest problem on offense, but he also agrees that the offens is the smallest problem on the team.

DaSkinz Baby wrote:As an example, prior to Mike getting fired from Denver he had how many number 1 picks on the defensive line when Courtney Brown was also on that team? Take a look at Denver's defensive team in say 2006. As a matter of fact other then when they had the orange crush when did Denver EVER HAVE A GOOD DEFENSE that Shanahan could be attached too?

Here are his defenses in Denver and how they ranked with the exception of his first year (hold over from previous coach) and his last two (helped to get him fired):

I don't what you consider a good defens but right now i was give my left testicle (it bothers me a lot anyways) for this D to have that type of production!

by contrast the eleven season prior to Shanny our defense was:15th in pts and 13 in yrds

Ok, is that too far, how about from Gibbs to Shanny:13th and 11th

How about just under Zorn:12th and 7th

Shanny's Ds in Denver seem to stack up quite well.

DaSkinz Baby wrote:He comes here and decides to take the 4th ranked Defense and change it to a 3-4 where we had no 3-4 players.

Actually it was the 18th in pts and 10th in yds. The year before that it was 6th and 4th, but the i get your point the D was better. Even thought they couldn't create a turn over or score to save their lives (they hadn't scored on D in something like four years!)

DaSkinz Baby wrote:Then he hires of all people Jim Haslett who couldn't make it in New Orleans or St. Louis! and ever since Shanahan and Haslett has been here this defense has been ranked 28th thru 31st. But let me guess that RGIII's fault too right?

No, some of that is talent (lack there of), some is the switch to the 3-4, but MOST OF IT is on Haslett (IMHO). So we agree on that.

DaSkinz Baby wrote:Let's talk about Shanahan hiring Keith Burns as the Special Teams coach, and how have they played this year?

Unmitigated disaster, maybe the worst coordinator hire in the history of Redskins football!

DaSkinz Baby wrote:Now for the final nail in the coffin Mike Shanahan has not done nothing since John Elway retired, that is a cold hard bitter pill that you must swallow.

This is the dumbest of your points, because it simply ignore the thruth, Oh wait so did you defensive point.

In Denver, the ten years following Elway he had 2 losing seasons (how mant did we have during that time), he made the playoffs four times (us three - Gibbs 2.0 two, Norv - after six seasons - one), and a winning percentage of .57 (91-69) 22 games above 500. Do you even want me to show what we were during that time frame?

Now if you are one of those people that say he didn't win any play off games (which he did - one) or he didn't win a SB w/o Elway then you have a point, but Elway (or Steve Young) never won one w/o Shanny either.

skinsfan#33 I am impressed at your IQ, however I would counter argue that perhaps his defensive ranking's back in those years were based on a weaker AFC conference, remember other than the Colts, Patriots in recent years who has been a AFC powerhouse? Maybe the Steelers and the Raven's D. Also back then the conference Denver is in was also pretty weak. Let's also go back to that year when he was 8-5 with what 3 games left and lost all 3? I mean I guess it all boils down to what you think and believe. Myself personally I don't think that Mike nor Jim are as good as what many suggest. Jim had that one good year with the Steelers right, when went to New Orleans and St. Louis and has been pretty much a failure. Shanahan has a reputation of finding good backs, but isn't Bobby Turner the one coaching them and teaching them?? I mean maybe you can or maybe you can't look or see it from my perspective, the only thing that Mike has done since being here is and this is debatable, he has drafted and brought in some good people, Kerrigan, Garcon, RGIII, Morris, Reed. But how he handled McNabb made the comments about Beck and Grossman, let Danny Smith go to hire Keith Burns, to finally saying how he is more involved in the defense to seeing how putric that side of the ball has been in year 4 speaks volumes. I personally don't think he has done anything to be paid 7 million a year, don't think he has done anything to warrant a 5th year nor an extension. There are some willing to argue what he has done is worse than Zorn being here. And lastly for me, to put a product on the field against a rookie college coach twice to lose, to again be outplayed and lose to a 1-7 Vikings team and to be beat by a Dallas Defense that had second and third string starters against your first string and be dominated. No you have to go. Working here at the Department of Defense if my work mimicked what Shanahan has done in 4 years I would have either been fired, or demoted. I hold him to the same standards.

DaSkinz Baby wrote:Also back then the conference Denver is in was also pretty weak. Let's also go back to that year when he was 8-5 with what 3 games left and lost all 3? I mean I guess it all boils down to what you think and believe. Myself personally I don't think that Mike nor Jim are as good as what many suggest. Jim had that one good year with the Steelers right, when went to New Orleans and St. Louis and has been pretty much a failure. Shanahan has a reputation of finding good backs, but isn't Bobby Turner the one coaching them and teaching them??

Can I just point out that you're finding all of these excuses for why Shanahan has been successful in the past, but pretty much dismissing out of hand any excuses why he hasn't been as successful in Washington? Its kind of ridiculous.

The man has been coaching in some capacity for nearly 40 years. He's been an NFL head coach for something like 20 years. He won back to back Super Bowls. ESPN has him ranked as one of the top 20 coaches of all time. I get that you don't like him, and I totally understand that fans are disappointed with him at this point. But I'm just not buying that he's a terrible coach who got lucky because Bobby Turner has been coaching his running backs.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------"You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax"We’re winning off the field, but we’ve got to start winning on the field." - Bruce Allen

DaSkinz Baby wrote:Also back then the conference Denver is in was also pretty weak. Let's also go back to that year when he was 8-5 with what 3 games left and lost all 3? I mean I guess it all boils down to what you think and believe. Myself personally I don't think that Mike nor Jim are as good as what many suggest. Jim had that one good year with the Steelers right, when went to New Orleans and St. Louis and has been pretty much a failure. Shanahan has a reputation of finding good backs, but isn't Bobby Turner the one coaching them and teaching them??

Can I just point out that you're finding all of these excuses for why Shanahan has been successful in the past, but pretty much dismissing out of hand any excuses why he hasn't been as successful in Washington? Its kind of ridiculous.

The man has been coaching in some capacity for nearly 40 years. He's been an NFL head coach for something like 20 years. He won back to back Super Bowls. ESPN has him ranked as one of the top 20 coaches of all time. I get that you don't like him, and I totally understand that fans are disappointed with him at this point. But I'm just not buying that he's a terrible coach who got lucky because Bobby Turner has been coaching his running backs.

Riggofan you must be mistaken, I will never find excuses for Mike Shanahan. He needs to be fired today. Matter of fact he should have never been hired. Based on his last 4 years, and what he has done, in my estimation and opinion he is a terrible coach, because he is too arrogant and thinks his own crap doesn't stink. Let me also place this out here for people to read, this was in the Washingtonpst.com today:

How good is Mike Shanahan? Not how good does he think he is. How good really?

Not just as an offensive theorist, but as builder of all parts of a team, since that’s his job description. How good is he at picking coaches for all three units, then, as de facto general manager, guiding selection of every player? As he says, “You are your record.”Here’s the appetizer. In his fourth year, Shanahan has built the worst Washington defense in 50 seasons. This defense is so awful that if it slashed the number of points it allows by 40 percent in its past six games, it would still be the worst in D.C. since ’64.

Perhaps it’s better water-cooler chat to discuss Shanahan and Robert Griffin III’s relationship or how either stands in the esteem of owner Daniel Snyder. But there’s an elephant in the room. In his past six seasons, two in Denver and now four in D.C., Shanahan has been the architect of defenses that look like a bridge collapse. Whether you keep him, and for how long, or fire him, depends on whether you think he can fix this problem.

Since 1954, only two Washington teams have been so bad on defense that they allowed 400 points — 412 and 421 under Norv Turner . This year’s Redskins may give up 500 points. That’s f-i-v-e h-u-n-d-r-e-d. After 10 games, they’re on pace for 498.

Because Shanahan makes every important decision, he’s responsible for every important result. In his years, Washington has ranked 20th, 22nd, 22nd and now 30th in points allowed . That’s an average ranking of 24th in a 32-team league. That’s the worst defensive standing, relative to the whole league, in the reign of any Redskins coach since Otto Graham in the ’60s.

The Redskins are currently giving up 31.1 points per game. Only one Washington team in history has been worse — it was in 1954 . In the past 50 years, the worst mark was 26.3 points. Yes, offense is up a tad in the NFL this year to 23.4 points per game versus 21.3 for the past 20 years. But even with that adjustment, the Redskins are awful in absolute terms, and also relative to the league as a whole.

In 20 years of NFL coaching, Shanahan has only had one top five defense. A half-dozen of his Denver defenses were good. He hasn’t always been bad. But for his entire career, his average rank in points allowed has been 16th — middle of the league.

It’s the trend of his past half-dozen teams, especially this one, that’s most worrisome. In Shanahan’s final two years in Denver, his Broncos ranked 28th and 30th in points allowed (409 and 448). In other words, his last two Broncos teams gave up more points than the two worst Redskins teams of the entire 16-game-season NFL era of the past 35 years.

Those Denver defenses got him fired in Colorado. Snyder thought he was spending $35 million to get Shanahan’s exceptional offensive mind. And he did.

As bad as this 3-7 season has seemed, the Redskins lead the NFL in rushing — yards-per-game (155) and yards-per-carry (5.1). With one good game they’d crack the top 10 in scoring. As inaccurate as Griffin has been at times, as questionable as some of Kyle Shanahan’s play-calling has been in the red zone (with one of the NFL’s worst ratios of yards gained to points scored), the offense isn’t the issue.What’s sunk this season, with their playoff odds now at 1.4 percent, has been awful defense, as well as atrocious special teams that are last or next-to-last in the NFL in kicking field goals or returning any ball that’s punted or kicked. Apparently, Snyder’s $35 million bought that, too.

The Redskins allowed an average of 314 points in the three years before Shanahan arrived. That’s the baseline. Since he brought in Jim Haslett as coordinator and replaced a functional 4-3 defense with a generally inept 3-4, the number of points allowed, per full season, has skyrocketed to 398.There are other dark clouds over Shanahan’s tenure. How much responsibility should he carry for RGIII’s injury against Seattle? I’d say more than half, since he’s the adult, no matter how much RGIII, 22 then , wanted to play. Every one has their own view of that.

How much blame does Shanny share for getting Donovan McNabb? He and Snyder get to split it. (Many of us cheered and were wrong.) How much was he involved with dumping Albert Haynesworth’s contract into an uncapped year, a risk that led to $36 million in salary-cap-penalty retribution from colluding NFL owners? No one in Ashburn is saying, but, again, Snyder and Shanahan are the two essential “yes” votes. This week Shanahan has complained about cap-hit pain. But he was in the kitchen helping to make that stew or at least not screaming, “No!”

Snyder and Shanahan also linked arms, in bliss, trading 400 draft picks for Griffin. Many of us said, “Go for it.” How many would make that trade again today, post RGIII knee surgery?

Aside from two Super Bowl rings, there is one enormous reason to give Shanahan, signed through next season, more time to prove that he can still build a decent defense.

Continuity.

If any franchise should understand the chaos born of panic, it is the Redskins. Every time you change the coach, you alter offensive and defensive systems and, more important, you make a chunk of your roster obsolete. Snyder’s been through this four times. From Turner to conservative Marty Schottenheimer to pass-crazy Steve Spurrier to ground-centric Joe Gibbs to try-anything Jim Zorn to Shanahan, no two coaches liked exactly the same type of players. The roster was blown up every time with about 20 new players the next season, then more switches the following year.

Firing Shanahan might lead to more roster destruction than normal. He values smallish, quick offensive linemen. How much would Kory Lichtensteiger and Will Montgomery be worth to the next coach? Shanahan also puts a premium on players who may lack talent but will buy into My-Way-Mike’s worldview. Nobody really knows, until he’s gone, which players performed better for him than they would for anybody else.

Act in haste; repent at leisure.

Nothing, except a franchise quarterback, means as much in the NFL as picking your coach. And nothing raises unexpected hell more than switching one. At least debate the issue along the right lines. With complete control, and without any major injuries this season, Shanahan has overseen the construction of the worst Washington defense in 50 years. That’s where you start.

I also find it highly insulting that now since this team is back to playing the way it has since Shananigans has been here he now wants to talk about the cap penalty and not having depth. But you can bench Fred Davis and Josh Morgan. Seems to me this fool needs to pull his lower lip over his head and swallow.

DaSkinz Baby wrote:Nothing, except a franchise quarterback, means as much in the NFL as picking your coach. And nothing raises unexpected hell more than switching one. At least debate the issue along the right lines. With complete control, and without any major injuries this season, Shanahan has overseen the construction of the worst Washington defense in 50 years. That’s where you start.

I respect what you've written, because I think you've acknowledged some of the realities. Especially with regards to continuity and the never ending turnover we've had since Snyder took over.

Your comments about the defense though completely ignores 1) the utter rotten mess Shanahan inherited and has had to clean up and 2) the salary cap penalty. That stuff has been discussed ad nauseum on here, so I won't rehash it. But I think its pretty disingenuous to say Shanahan has "overseen the construction" of this defense. What he has done is patched together the best possible defense we could afford while plugging his fingers in two dozen other holes in the dam.

Btw I completely acknowledge and agree that Shanahan bit off more than we needed to chew on with the 3-4 switch that first year. So no need to bring it up. I don't think there is any doubt he underestimated the rebuilding job he was taking on.

Anyway, Shanahan may not be the football genius Bill Belichek seems to be. But he isn't Jim Zorn either. If what we get out of these four or five years is some stability, some new professionalism, finally putting Cerrato's mess behind us so the next coach has a solid foundation to build on, I'll consider this tenure a success.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------"You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax"We’re winning off the field, but we’ve got to start winning on the field." - Bruce Allen

DaSkinz Baby wrote:I also find it highly insulting that now since this team is back to playing the way it has since Shananigans has been here he now wants to talk about the cap penalty and not having depth. But you can bench Fred Davis and Josh Morgan. Seems to me this fool needs to pull his lower lip over his head and swallow.

I mean how is this even relevant much less insulting? He benched Fred Davis, who may or may not be here next year and has been suspended for drugs in the past, in favor of a less expensive draft pick who was completely outperforming him on the field.

And Josh Morgan??? Seriously, what has Josh Freaking Morgan done here that any of us should be up in arms over?

Hopefully some of the money we save when these guys are gone next year we can spend on some talent on defense next year.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------"You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax"We’re winning off the field, but we’ve got to start winning on the field." - Bruce Allen

DaSkinz Baby wrote:I also find it highly insulting that now since this team is back to playing the way it has since Shananigans has been here he now wants to talk about the cap penalty and not having depth. But you can bench Fred Davis and Josh Morgan. Seems to me this fool needs to pull his lower lip over his head and swallow.

I mean how is this even relevant much less insulting? He benched Fred Davis, who may or may not be here next year and has been suspended for drugs in the past, in favor of a less expensive draft pick who was completely outperforming him on the field.

And Josh Morgan??? Seriously, what has Josh Freaking Morgan done here that any of us should be up in arms over?

Hopefully some of the money we save when these guys are gone next year we can spend on some talent on defense next year.

riggofan, Fred Davis prior to his injury was probably a top 10 TE, and him being suspended for smoking weed? SO WHAT! We have a Senator buying coke and I don't see him suspended! So please don't go there. In regards to Morgan, what has he done? Well I can tell you he hasn't screwed up punt return after punt return as what happened last game, and Shanahan talking this dude up like he is the next best thing. You find my thoughts on a message board insulting but you don't find Shananigans and pretty much 93% of what he has done and said insulting? I think you might have your priorities mixed up........

DaSkinz Baby wrote:Nothing, except a franchise quarterback, means as much in the NFL as picking your coach. And nothing raises unexpected hell more than switching one. At least debate the issue along the right lines. With complete control, and without any major injuries this season, Shanahan has overseen the construction of the worst Washington defense in 50 years. That’s where you start.

I respect what you've written, because I think you've acknowledged some of the realities. Especially with regards to continuity and the never ending turnover we've had since Snyder took over.

Your comments about the defense though completely ignores 1) the utter rotten mess Shanahan inherited and has had to clean up and 2) the salary cap penalty. That stuff has been discussed ad nauseum on here, so I won't rehash it. But I think its pretty disingenuous to say Shanahan has "overseen the construction" of this defense. What he has done is patched together the best possible defense we could afford while plugging his fingers in two dozen other holes in the dam.

Btw I completely acknowledge and agree that Shanahan bit off more than we needed to chew on with the 3-4 switch that first year. So no need to bring it up. I don't think there is any doubt he underestimated the rebuilding job he was taking on.

Anyway, Shanahan may not be the football genius Bill Belichek seems to be. But he isn't Jim Zorn either. If what we get out of these four or five years is some stability, some new professionalism, finally putting Cerrato's mess behind us so the next coach has a solid foundation to build on, I'll consider this tenure a success.

Do you know what our defensive overall ranking was when Shananigans took over? #4, sorry you don't fix what isn't broke. Rule number 1. Based on records alone here, Zorn is even better than Shananigans, that should tell you all you need to know my friend.....

riggofan wrote:Can I just point out that you're finding all of these excuses for why Shanahan has been successful in the past, but pretty much dismissing out of hand any excuses why he hasn't been as successful in Washington? Its kind of ridiculous.

The man has been coaching in some capacity for nearly 40 years. He's been an NFL head coach for something like 20 years. He won back to back Super Bowls. ESPN has him ranked as one of the top 20 coaches of all time. I get that you don't like him, and I totally understand that fans are disappointed with him at this point. But I'm just not buying that he's a terrible coach who got lucky because Bobby Turner has been coaching his running backs.

"I’m never under the assumption that you draft for need. You draft the best available football player on the board. ... Because, in the long run, they are the ones who will help you win the most games." - Scot McCloughan

DaSkinz Baby wrote:I also find it highly insulting that now since this team is back to playing the way it has since Shananigans has been here he now wants to talk about the cap penalty and not having depth. But you can bench Fred Davis and Josh Morgan. Seems to me this fool needs to pull his lower lip over his head and swallow.

I mean how is this even relevant much less insulting? He benched Fred Davis, who may or may not be here next year and has been suspended for drugs in the past, in favor of a less expensive draft pick who was completely outperforming him on the field.

And Josh Morgan??? Seriously, what has Josh Freaking Morgan done here that any of us should be up in arms over?

Hopefully some of the money we save when these guys are gone next year we can spend on some talent on defense next year.

riggofan, Fred Davis prior to his injury was probably a top 10 TE, and him being suspended for smoking weed? SO WHAT! We have a Senator buying coke and I don't see him suspended! So please don't go there. In regards to Morgan, what has he done? Well I can tell you he hasn't screwed up punt return after punt return as what happened last game, and Shanahan talking this dude up like he is the next best thing. You find my thoughts on a message board insulting but you don't find Shananigans and pretty much 93% of what he has done and said insulting? I think you might have your priorities mixed up........

Fred Davis is GONE next year. You're seriously going to whine that Shanahan is sitting him in favor or Jordan Reid? Give me a freaking break. You're just throwing crap at the wall to see what sticks. So what about him smoking weed? So we don't overpay to resign an older TE, coming off a major injury who we can't be sure won't light up again and not be on the field for us.

The problem with Jordan Reid is that he's an excellent draft pick selected by Shanahan who has contributed in his rookie year. Therefore he doesn't fit into your story that Shanahan just sucks and doesn't know what he's doing. Keep trying though.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------"You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax"We’re winning off the field, but we’ve got to start winning on the field." - Bruce Allen

DaSkinz Baby wrote:Nothing, except a franchise quarterback, means as much in the NFL as picking your coach. And nothing raises unexpected hell more than switching one. At least debate the issue along the right lines. With complete control, and without any major injuries this season, Shanahan has overseen the construction of the worst Washington defense in 50 years. That’s where you start.

I respect what you've written, because I think you've acknowledged some of the realities. Especially with regards to continuity and the never ending turnover we've had since Snyder took over.

Your comments about the defense though completely ignores 1) the utter rotten mess Shanahan inherited and has had to clean up and 2) the salary cap penalty. That stuff has been discussed ad nauseum on here, so I won't rehash it. But I think its pretty disingenuous to say Shanahan has "overseen the construction" of this defense. What he has done is patched together the best possible defense we could afford while plugging his fingers in two dozen other holes in the dam.

Btw I completely acknowledge and agree that Shanahan bit off more than we needed to chew on with the 3-4 switch that first year. So no need to bring it up. I don't think there is any doubt he underestimated the rebuilding job he was taking on.

Anyway, Shanahan may not be the football genius Bill Belichek seems to be. But he isn't Jim Zorn either. If what we get out of these four or five years is some stability, some new professionalism, finally putting Cerrato's mess behind us so the next coach has a solid foundation to build on, I'll consider this tenure a success.

DaSkins didn't write that. It came from the Post article. He should have put it in a quote box, though.