As is the case with most Jeep owners I am looking at Mods. Based on my very limited off-roading experience I am very impressed with the capability of my Stock Jeep. So I am wondering are Jeeps modified because they have to be to become more capable or are Jeeps modified more for looks and personalization.

I am focusing on Lifting with this post.My stock ground clearance is 10.1 inches.Any lift no matter how high would have no effect on Ground Clearance since the Axles remain in the same location , I can see how a lift will affect Approach , Breakover and Departure angle but I do not see how lifting would make a big differences in these angles.

So I can see how one would want to lift to be able to use larger tires, and I understand how larger tires will increase ground clearance. Ground Clearance would increase by ˝ of the tire size increase as this would raise the axles that far.

So lets say I want to use 35in tires which based on my limited knowledge appears to be the largest used for real life Daily driver Jeeps. My current tires are 31 going to 35 would increase tire size by 4 inches . That should give me 2 more inches of ground clearance. Is that really going to get me though that much tougher trails and situations?

I also see where larger tires would give you a traction improvement, since larger tires would create a larger contact patch, but again the amount of increase in the contact patch would be minimal . So is there really any Traction improvement?

So in a nutshell , I know it looks Cool and makes your Jeep appear to be a real off road beast, and makes your Jeep yours. But is there a true increase in Capability ?

Yes there's the benefit of the increased break over angles. And your ground clearance only changes with larger tires and by half the diameter. This makes it easier to roll over larger obstacles and keep other components away from rocks etc. jeeps are plenty capable out of the box so done right it adds to what you can do. I ran a trail out here before and after lifting my jeep. Going from 32" to 35" tires I could take different lines, not use my skid plates as much and used my lockers less. If I were you wheel it first and figure out what you want to do. Have fun

As is the case with most Jeep owners I am looking at Mods. Based on my very limited off-roading experience I am very impressed with the capability of my Stock Jeep. So I am wondering are Jeeps modified because they have to be to become more capable or are Jeeps modified more for looks and personalization.

I am focusing on Lifting with this post.My stock ground clearance is 10.1 inches.Any lift no matter how high would have no effect on Ground Clearance since the Axles remain in the same location , I can see how a lift will affect Approach , Breakover and Departure angle but I do not see how lifting would make a big differences in these angles.

So I can see how one would want to lift to be able to use larger tires, and I understand how larger tires will increase ground clearance. Ground Clearance would increase by ˝ of the tire size increase as this would raise the axles that far.

So lets say I want to use 35in tires which based on my limited knowledge appears to be the largest used for real life Daily driver Jeeps. My current tires are 31 going to 35 would increase tire size by 4 inches . That should give me 2 more inches of ground clearance. Is that really going to get me though that much tougher trails and situations?

I also see where larger tires would give you a traction improvement, since larger tires would create a larger contact patch, but again the amount of increase in the contact patch would be minimal . So is there really any Traction improvement?

So in a nutshell , I know it looks Cool and makes your Jeep appear to be a real off road beast, and makes your Jeep yours. But is there a true increase in Capability ?

Please do not Flame me , Teach me.

Not going to flame you at all.
Lift so you can run larger diameter tires.... that is it.
Here in my part of the world, when running on USFS trails, they will only issue permit under certain conditions; one being that we MUST stay in the existing tracks, even if deeply rutted. With that being said, there are some places that even 33's will be dragging the diff's pretty good. Now then, air down to like 6 PSI and you have equivalent of about a 30 0r 31 inch tire and you are hung up on your diff.
Solution= larger diameter tires. I am running 37's on a 2.5 inch lift; but then, I wasn't concerned about having to do a little minor body work to keep things from rubbing too much.
And when I air my 37's down to 6 PSI, they are probably equivalent to about a 34 actual ; but they bite like hell!!!
Hope this helps you.
Lift= capable of running larger tires
Larger tires = more ground clearance.
Air down = more traction, but less ground clearance, so run larger tires yet

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Don
Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by its clean end!

Here is a picture that can give you a little idea.
This is a YJ setting on 35's... note how deep into the ruts he is. And he had to be winched up the last few feet!!

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Don
Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by its clean end!

I just put in the Teraflex 2"leveling kit because I didn't like the rack in the front. Jeeps look better leveled. It gave me 2" in the front and one in the back. But I'm still running 32's because that is plenty for me. I don't see any reason to drive over something that can break my Jeep if I can just go around it. I understand that sometimes that isn't possible and I have the beat up skid plates to prove it. But for most of us, mountain shelf roads are going to be the worst our Jeeps see.

So as stated before wheel it as is and see if you need to mod anything. I actually took more stuff off my Jeep then I put on. Like I cut the bumper down to a stubby with the Rough Country Kit for $60 and removed my decals and put my own on. Made a big impact on the look with the leveling kit. I did the leveling kit by myself in the drive way in 4 hours.

It all depends on your application and what you plan on doing with your jeep. My TJ is lifted and I use it more for crawling and hill climbing for what little I do. I banged up my rear bumper and thought I put a hole on my gas tank before I even knew anything about jeeps and their stock armor so I figured I'd lift it. I've never had a problem since.

I bought a YJ with highway tires and plan to keep it stock height since I do more trail riding and beach runs with both jeeps so I don't feel the need to lift my YJ for the beach. Yea, it gives it a cooler look being lifted and at the beach but it performs better on the beach than my lifted TJ with mud tires but the YJ probably won't get me out of ruts in the mud or clear tall hills like my TJ.

As it has been said it does depend on what terrain you are dealing with. First off remember that if you are rock crawling you are putting the tires on the high spots not trying to straddle them. This gives you the ability to get over things that are a lot higher than your axle clearance. When we are rock crawling the rule is "protect the pumpkin” (the differential). Put the wheels on the rocks. Prior to my lift we would hang up on various parts under the Jeep (I have a JKUR). Usually something that was a skid plate, so no real damage, but it got old banging the bottom of the Jeep on things. After the 3.5 inch lift there is a lot less of that that happening. Adding 35 inch tires helped even more. Where we wheel it tends to be rather rocky. We rarely deal with mud. Where you are in Mo Town you probably have a lot less rocks than we have out here in the California mountains. See what the local people do. I have been to Michigan, but never off roaded there. All I can picture are a whole lot of little lakes and some huge sand dunes up north near Traverse City.

Drive it. Modifications to enhance your enjoyment will become obvious. I started out believing I wouldn't need a lift for my JK Unlimited. Now I have a two door Rubicon with a four inch lift and 35 inch tires. With experience your jeep will evolve.

when I first got into jeeping I thought I would mostly be doing mild trails unfortunately jeeping is somewhat of a disease and pretty soon you are attracted to more difficult trails and once you start doing more difficult trails you need larger tires and better approach and departure angles. JeepDon said it pretty darn well. You air down to 6-15psi and your 34" tires don't offer a lot of pumpkin clearance any more. Proper lines help but there are some instances where even the proper line is scattered with large rocks. your extra 2" is definitely helpful off road. I went with 34's and wish I would have went with 35's just for that extra 1/2". Oh and bigger tires and lifts look nice.

Like mentioned it's all about clearance.... When off-roading you articulated the vehicles wheels to get the axles over things they normally would not clear... you don't have that option with the rest of the jeep. The best example of this is a simple drop off or a steep incline/decline that starts/stops abruptly... More common in the unlimited with the longer wheelbase it's pretty easy to drag the transfer case skid plate at the point of transition. Yes, it's very capable off-road, but once you get on trails with big rocks and drop off's you need the lift..

Example... You got a big rock in front of you... you drive up onto the rock which gets the front axle over it.. wheel drives over the rock and now its under the front rocker the question is do you have the clearance to drive over the rock until the rear wheel can drive over lifting the rear axle...

I've done some pretty tough stuff in a stock rubicon... 35" tires made that tough stuff easier... and i'm going for a BDS 2" lift soon since i've been scuffing up my skids on the steep transitions...

I feel like you're over analyzing it... but everything you said is pretty spot on as far as reasons for doing a lift.

Another perk of a lift is you can work under your Jeep with a lot more breathing room.

I would go off-road it stock for 2 or 3 months before doing any major exterior or suspension mods to it. You will learn what you need based on the terrain you tackle. Heck, I never understood why people would want to pay a lot of money to cover up their Jeep's rear quarter panels until mine slid into a tree. Learning is part of the fun.

Pretty sure I'm going to be in the minority here, but lifting is not worth the negatives to me. When I was younger I thought it was the only way to go. After 40 years of off-roading I've found that there is almost no place someone with a lifted vehicle can go that I cannot go with my stock vehicles. And most of those places require them to detour off the main trail just to seek out some really bad spot.

Back in my youth when stock tires were 28-30" tall lifting made a little more sense. We lifted vehicles just to fit 32" tires under them and were content. My Wrangler came with 32" tires on it. You can spend $4000 or more doing the mods to get a 35" tire on one for 1.5" more ground clearance. Not to mention greatly increased fuel consumption. Most of the time driving skills will be more important than 1.5" more clearance.

You have gotten some great input here! I am still wheeling a stock Jeep, have done a number of trails. That has taught me a TON! We play on rocks out here. I can get pretty far stock-but I now see where my limitations are.

On mild trails, the only limitation of the stock Sport was the meh stock tires. Just a better stock tire or aftermarket would have helped a lot and gotten me further still. (They are ok on rocks but downright suck on loose sandy stuff!)

I also learned "tires high" (another way of saying "protect the pumpkin") when crawling. I have seen countless limos (JKUs) high center because they ended up "belly high" on a rock. I will take all the clearance I can safely get, but now I have a two door so the angles are different.

But the trap then becomes...bigger tires + drive over bigger stuff = exact same limitations as before just bigger lol.

Much to be said for driver (and spotter) skill in picking lines too. The single most important piece of equipment is not the lift, not the tires or the fancy mechanicals and electronic nannies --- it is the single nut sitting behind the steering wheel.

Hey, I think it's been mentioned, but drive it stock until you come up against something you can't get through. If you really feel the need to conquer that obstacle then you'll probably need a lift and bigger tires. Lots of rocks where I wheel so the lift and tires made sense. I found myself limited with a stock 2dr Rubicon. To the point where I had to be yanked off rocks numerous times. A 2.5" lift and 35's fixed that. Same line, same obstacle, got through it no problem. Not dragging skids as much as I used to either. And I really didn't spend a fortune on the lift. $750 for a teraflex 2.5" with bilstein 5100's, $160 for a RK track bar and another few hundred on RK control arms. It's good enough for N.C. rocks.

Pretty sure I'm going to be in the minority here, but lifting is not worth the negatives to me. When I was younger I thought it was the only way to go. After 40 years of off-roading I've found that there is almost no place someone with a lifted vehicle can go that I cannot go with my stock vehicles. And most of those places require them to detour off the main trail just to seek out some really bad spot.

Back in my youth when stock tires were 28-30" tall lifting made a little more sense. We lifted vehicles just to fit 32" tires under them and were content. My Wrangler came with 32" tires on it. You can spend $4000 or more doing the mods to get a 35" tire on one for 1.5" more ground clearance. Not to mention greatly increased fuel consumption. Most of the time driving skills will be more important than 1.5" more clearance.

I fully concur.

When I was younger I used to go wheelin' with a relative that lived near some trail heads. He had a couple of Jeeps and one of them was set up with a high off road bias. One specific trail was very treacherous. When we went on that trail he always took that Jeep. To my surprise, he took that Jeep for me not him because when we hit a tough part of the trail I wasn't sure how to approach or had second thoughts about getting my stock or modestly built Jeep through, we would trade vehicles. With big lift and big tires it was easier getting through but it I still had to push it to keep up with him as our spotter laughed.

No doubt a big Jeep looks and feel great unless you are approaching the Tip Over angle but in most cases it's not required.

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B. B.