In her previous books The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism (2007) and NO LOGO: No Space, No Choice, No Jobs (2000), Canadian author and activist Naomi Klein took on topics like neoliberal “shock therapy,” consumerism, globalization and “disaster capitalism,” extensively documenting the forces behind the dramatic rise in economic inequality and environmental degradation over the past 50 years. But in her new book, This Changes Everything: Capitalism vs. the Climate (due in stores September 16), Klein casts her gaze toward the future, arguing that the dangers of climate change demand radical action now to ward off catastrophe. She certainly isn’t alone in pointing out the urgency of the threat, but what sets Klein apart is her argument that it is capitalism—not carbon—that is at the root of climate change, inexorably driving us toward an environmental Armageddon in the pursuit of profit. This Changes Everything is well worth a read (or two) in full, but we’ve distilled some of its key points here.

1. Band-Aid solutions don’t work.

“Only mass social movements can save us now. Because we know where the current system, left unchecked, is headed.”

Much of the conversation surrounding climate change focuses on what Klein dismisses as “Band-Aid solutions”: profit-friendly fixes like whizz-bang technological innovations, cap-and-trade schemes and supposedly “clean” alternatives like natural gas. To Klein, such strategies are too little, too late. In her drawn-out critique of corporate involvement in climate change prevention, she demonstrates how profitable “solutions” put forward by many think-tanks (and their corporate backers) actually end up making the problem worse. For instance, Klein argues that carbon trading programs create perverse incentives, allowing manufacturers to produce more harmful greenhouse gases, just to be paid to reduce them. In the process, carbon trading schemes have helped corporations make billions—allowing them to directly profit off the degradation of the planet. Instead, Klein argues, we need to break free of market fundamentalism and implement long-term planning, strict regulation of business, more taxation, more government spending and reversals of privatization to return key infrastructure to public control.

2. We need to fix ourselves, not fix the world.

“The earth is not our prisoner, our patient, our machine, or, indeed, our monster. It is our entire world. And the solution to global warming is not to fix the world, it is to fix ourselves.”

Klein devotes a full chapter of the book to geoengineering: the field of research, championed by a niche group of scientists, funders and media figures, that aims to fight global warming by altering the earth itself—say, by covering deserts with reflective material to send sunlight back to space or even dimming the sun to decrease the amount of heat reaching the planet. However, politicians and much of the global public have raised environmental, health and ethical concerns regarding these proposed science experiments with the planet, and Klein warns of the unknown consequences of creating “a Frankenstein’s world,” with multiple countries launching projects simultaneously. Instead of restoring an environmental equilibrium, Klein argues these “techno-fixes” will only further upset the earth’s balance, each one creating a host of new problems, requiring an endless chain of further “fixes.” She writes, “The earth—our life support system—would itself be put on life support, hooked up to machines 24/7 to prevent it from going full-tilt monster on us.”

3. We can’t rely on “well-intentioned” corporate funding.

“A great many progressives have opted out of the climate change debate in part because they thought that the Big Green groups, flush with philanthropic dollars, had this issue covered. That, it turns out, was a grave mistake.”

Klein strongly critiques partnerships between corporations and major environmental groups, along with attempts by “green billionaires” such as Bill Gates and Virgin Group’s Richard Branson to use capitalism to fighting global warming. When capitalism itself is a principal cause of climate change, Klein argues, it doesn’t make sense to expect corporations and billionaires to put the planet before profit. For example, though the Gates Foundation funds many major environmental groups dedicated to combating climate change, as of December 2013, it had at least $1.2 billion invested in BP and ExxonMobil. In addition, when Big Greens become dependent on corporate funding, they start to push a corporate agenda. For instance, organizations such as the Nature Conservancy and the Environmental Defense Fund, which have taken millions of dollars from pro-fracking corporate funders, such as Shell, Chevron and JP Morgan, are pitching natural gas as a cleaner alternative to oil and coal.

4. We need divestment, and reinvestment.

“The main power of divestment is not that it financially harms Shell and Chevron in the short term but that it erodes the social license of fossil fuel companies and builds pressure on politicians to introduce across-the-board emission reductions.”

Critics of the carbon divestment movement often claim that divestment will have minimal impact on polluters’ bottom lines. But Klein argues that this line of reasoning misses the point, quoting Canadian divestment activist Cameron Fenton's argument that “No one is thinking we’re going to bankrupt fossil fuel companies. But what we can do is bankrupt their reputations and take away their political power.” More importantly, divestment opens the door for reinvestment. A few million dollars out of the hands of ExxonMobil or BP frees up money that can now be spent developing green infrastructure or empowering communities to localize their economies. And some colleges, charities, pension funds and municipalities have already got the message: Klein reports that 13 U.S. colleges and universities, 25 North American cities, around 40 religious institutions and several major foundations have all made commitments to divest their endowments from fossil fuel stocks and bonds.

5. Confronting climate change is an opportunity to address other social, economic and political issues.

“When climate change deniers claim that global warming is a plot to redistribute wealth, it's not (only) because they are paranoid. It's also because they are paying attention.”

In The Shock Doctrine, Klein explained how corporations have exploited crises around the world for profit. In This Changes Everything, she argues that the climate change crisis can serve as a wake-up call for widespread democratic action. For instance, when a 2007 tornado destroyed most of Greensburg, Kansas, the town rejected top-down approaches to recovery in favor of community-based rebuilding efforts that increased democratic participation and created new, environmentally-friendly public buildings. Today, Greensburg is one of the greenest towns in the United States. To Klein, this example illustrates how people can use climate change to come together to build a greener society. It also can, and indeed must, spur a radical transformation of our economy: less consumption, less international trade (part of relocalizing our economies) and less private investment, and a lot more government spending to create the infrastructure we need for a green economy. “Implicit in all of this,” Klein writes, “is a great deal more redistribution, so that more of us can live comfortably within the planet’s capacity.”

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I get continually amazed at the idea that the planet would be better off without human beings. Yes probably, but not a good solution to us.

It is true that climate has taken a massive beating as technology has begun transforming human societies. Prior to 1850 or so, people lived pretty much as they had for millenia. And then technology started improving the standards of their lives to the point that we have not just been able to sustain nearly 4 times more population worldwide but they are living longer and phenomenally better than anything even the rich in 1850 could have imagined. And this has come at a huge cost to the environment which has degraded in some places like never before.

The progress has to do with the rise of capitalism. Which is another way of saying that people got to benefit from techniology and markets rather than a few. Availability of a fungible exchange of resources (money) made it possible but wasnt the only thing. As societies recognised the benefits of markets (which allowed more and more to produce wealth and a better life for others while enriching themselves) the concept prospered. One has to remember what was there before. A few feudals or nobles controlled everything. Most of the population lived in squalor and died early.

So going back to a society where only a few live comfortably the rest either live horribly or die wretchedly is not pleasant prospect and only someone with extreme Marie Anotoinette like arrogance can say this. And lets say that even this were to happen. We turn of capitalism. The civilisation reverts to our pre-industrial age squalor. Then what. 7 billion people will still have an environmental footprint no matter what. What will Ms. Klein's suggest then as a a solution. Mass extermination?

Posted by Adnan Khan on 2014-12-15 22:54:51

so is yours, it's the world we live in.

Posted by diwili on 2014-10-18 20:27:41

that doesn't mean anti-capitalism isn't a part of the solution. PRC is definitely participating in the global capitalist economy. but yes, if say, socialism replaces the current system, there needs to be the vision and values to not degrade the environment in addition.

Posted by diwili on 2014-10-18 20:27:04

i think you have the answer: let's mobilize workers, with living wage (and then some) jobs to re-do the infrastructure of the country so that it's not emissions-dependent

Posted by diwili on 2014-10-18 20:21:42

Here's my response:

[farts] [poops]

[smile]

Posted by Slingfox on 2014-09-22 18:48:19

Slingfox;

Oh, are those who deliberately engage in expropriating the private property that others have EARNED now simply "engag[ing in] debate", or "challenging the status quo"? Maybe in your book...but in mine, they're essentially nothing but criminals who should be dealt with as any other form of parasite and/or pest.

As for my "assumption", I don't think I "assumed" much when I recognized your antipathy toward capital and the capitalist system. Nor do I think it much of conclusion-jump when I considered that your "living" is pretty much totally dependent upon that capital and system....and thus that "what [you] do for a living" is function as a hypocrite. Care to fault my logic there? Go ahead....and try to do it without essentially reiterating your "gimme, gimme" claims

Now, in response to your...

"You think the people who engage, debate and come through the other end challenging the status quo must be useless folks who don't know how to work."

...quip, "no", what I think is that people who make their way in this world via the outright theft of others property, and those that apparently support such people - like you and Klein here - are WORSE than "useless". You're not just engaging in debate, or challenging the status quo...rather, you're simply defending criminal conduct...and that's far beyond "useless". Rather, it's DESTRUCTIVE CONDUCT!

It's regretful that I seem to have struck a nerve....but your response seems to validate the necessity of doing so. After all, if the world was left to people like you and Klein here, what would have? The answer to that, of course, is "nothing", if for no other reason than because, if existence is predicated on stealing from others, then sooner or later there won't be anything left to steal, or anyone left to steal from. That's reality. I suggest you take the time (and the opportunity) to "comprehend" it. Sound like a plan?

Meanwhile, I'll castigate myself for [apparently] not being able to "...even pass a pre-med course" [smile!]

Have a good one!

Posted by Ken_Meyer on 2014-09-21 07:53:30

>>Those two words just about cover it, don't they? [smile]

Ah no, see if you could actually read and comprehend the concepts in my post, you'd see its the opposite of "gimme gimme." Its more of, "Get out, and let us do the work of building the society we live in."

>>really ARE "parasites" who are

Did you miss the point I made about commensalism? As a doctor and scientist I should point out the massive flaw in your analogy. See, parasit--

Oh never mind. Since you failed to comprehend my post, I'll just smile and nod at your responses. Anything I say won't actually make a difference since you're lacking in the ability to comprehend what others say.

>>that OTHERS - who are ALREADY doing infinitely more than you

The assumption you make -- that you do more than others, like myself -- is based on what? What is it that you contribute that you think is so great?

Come do what I do for a living. Taken a biology course? Probably not.

The difference of course is I don't make the assumption that everyone out there is all about "gimme gimme." I actually take the time to comprehend the concepts and arguments they make. You don't. You think the people who engage, debate and come through the other end challenging the status quo must be useless folks who don't know how to work.

(With your lack of depth you wouldn't even pass a pre-med course. Isn't that sad? You're yelling about hard work and you don't even give the impression you have what it takes to pass freshman bio).

Also, what's with the need to write down every facial expression you have as you write? Its like reading an 8th grader's play with misplaced stage directions.

Thanks! Hope you have a good one too.

Posted by Slingfox on 2014-09-21 01:17:26

Slingfox;

Why don't you condense your comment to it's essential, which as far as I can tell, can be expressed in just two words; i.e. - "gimme, gimme".

Those two words just about cover it, don't they? [smile]

Sorry, but "the problem" as I see it is that people like Klein - and you - really ARE "parasites" who are imposing the burden of their miserable existence on the economic backs of those elements of society who earn their way by making a positive contribution to it.

BTW, I think your claiming that I've "missed the point" in "Asking Kelin to come up with jobs" seems to miss the entire point of life itself; ie.. - that no one OWES her (or you) a living....and that your credibility comes up somewhat short when you demand that OTHERS - who are ALREADY doing infinitely more than you in terms of contributing to society - do even more so that you don't have to do anything at all.

A simple "point", perhaps...but one you and your ilk seem to consistently (or is it "deliberately persistently") miss.

Have a good one!

Posted by Ken_Meyer on 2014-09-20 19:21:39

Asking Klein to come up with jobs as a solution to the problems she highlights indicates you've missed the point of this whole piece. Coming up with more jobs isn't going to fix the problems we currently have. In fact it will simply make things worse (more the of same isn't a solution).

When you call Klein a "parasite," I'm assuming it means you think its hypocritical of her to continue to live in a capitalist society and earn her living selling books when she's calling for the opposite.

The problem with that is that there is no alternative for her to live in. All of us that want a society structured differently aren't offered a separate planet to live on. It doesn't matter where you move on this planet, in order to survive, you have to live within the structures of that society, and across the world we've seen capitalism pretty much become the dominant structure in place.

Therefore in order for people like her (and myself) to gain the society we want to live in, we have to fight for it. How? Well, by starting with highlighting our grievances with the way that this structure has (miserably and utterly) failed in protecting our planet and our environment from industrial waste and damage. That's just one grievance -- there are so many others, that I believe once others understand and see the framework of how capitalism works, they will realize its a terrible system.

We think that many others share our grievances with the current structure and the problems it has created. Klein's work serves a means of uniting those of us that are fighting to share this perspective and asking others to join us in building a different world. Kind of like what Fox news channel probably does for... Well, you know who.

(I should add that this isn't parasitism. Ecologists would refer to this as more commensalism, honestly).

You don't have to support or believe in the system you write about. In fact, some of the best journalism is by people who provide us with the means of understanding and exposing the very system they write about. None of those award-winning journalists came up with "jobs." But the perspectives and material they provided others with to help build a movement was (and is) invaluable.

Posted by Slingfox on 2014-09-20 18:33:50

All great points and all the reasons why we will not avoid climate change or prepare for what is headed our way. We will react only when it is too late to react. And even then.....it will come down to band-aids for the rich, and "too bad, so sad" for the rest of us.

Posted by SDM on 2014-09-18 09:09:15

Typically one sided.... Old style communist countries were among the worst polluters. Their proletarians couldn't complain (lest they be shot) and in the name of quick industrialization polluted at a level far worse thant anything in the hated capitalist West. You want proof? I'll give you proof> link to http://www.columbia.edu/~tmt21... for a lesson about good old soviet thinking.

And today we have communist/mercantile China, destroying everything on its path to catch up with the evil West to the point where the Mongolian desert now threatens Beijing and rich Chinese can't get out fast enough to evil western countries to escape the devastation.

Posted by jesus666 on 2014-09-14 23:59:23

Unfortunately nothing in your insult refutes the facts that he stated. That is what you climate alarmists are reduced to..... lies and insults. And increasing desperation as the evidence continues to mount - away from AGW.

I'm looking forward to reading this book so much. I hope it will be even more influential than her previous work. The hostility some people direct towards Naomi, who is always so giving of her time and efforts, astounds me.

Posted by Jolly Roger on 2014-09-08 14:55:19

As a Social Democrat of course I agree.We need to switch in the context of a mixed economy to a system of production for use.What i propose is a tactic in an over all strategy.We need to start shifting that balance now addressing economic inequality and using that tax money for remediation of private harm and produce results.

Posted by DavidD on 2014-09-05 07:50:05

WeAreMay;

SURE it's not, Sport! [smile] Funny, though....one can't help but wonder if it ("capitalism") was suddenly taken away, then just WHAT would people like "her" exist on? Support checks from that "easter bunny" you mentioned?

In short, don't get a big head. Looking around on blogs like this, it quickly becomes quite evident that the "gimme, gimme" crowd simply couldn't exist without the benevolence of the very people they show such disdain for. The "gimme, gimme"ers don't offer jobs; they demand that OTHERS offer them! They don't create wealth; they demand that others surrender theirs! They don't make any positive contributions to society; instead they constantly rail at those who are already contributing that they're not contributing enough!

The common "dirty trick" that the "gimme, gimme" crowd seems to see in all this is those nasty Capitalists is that of their ACTUALLY EARNING THEIR WAY IN THIS WORLD! Apparently since they (the "gimme, gimme' crowd) can't seem to do that themselves, they're highly resentful of those that can.

But perhaps I'm wrong. If so, how is it that YOU see the "gimme, gimme" crowd NOT being dependent on capitalism? What IS sustaining their existence if it's NOT capitalism? And, while the market may not be God, let's face it; it's a lot more reflective of reality that people such as yourself, who seem have to popped-up out of a rabbit hole along with that "easter bunny" you mentioned. Or are you prepared - and, by prepared, I mean RIGHT NOW - to go it alone OUTSIDE of the reality of "the market"? Think you can live off of hot air?

If so, good luck with that....you're going to need it.

Posted by Ken_Meyer on 2014-09-05 04:08:27

Her existence is no more dependent on capitalism than mine is dependent on the easter bunny. You make it sound as if the market is a god that we must all bow down to. The real parasites are the people on Wall Street who bought our government and get to take what they want from us without any real democratic process to control them. The people who spend all day on their yachts while their portfolios make millions are parasites, not journalists who try to expose their dirty tricks.

Posted by WeAreMany on 2014-09-05 03:08:55

Clearly? Oh really? If you want to talk about something that is clear as day, it's that infinite growth is impossible. Capitalism requires constant growth of the economy and at some point, any rational person who thinks about it can see how that becomes a problem once we hit limits on natural resources. We can't solve our overconsumption problems with more growth and more consumption. It's so obviously stupid that I can no longer wrap my head around how so many people believe it.

Posted by WeAreMany on 2014-09-05 03:04:49

Actually, we need to replace capitalism. All the taxes in the world won't change the fact that capitalism requires infinite growth and infinite growth is absolutely impossible on a planet with finite resources. We need a system that can exist without growth.

Posted by WeAreMany on 2014-09-05 02:55:38

It is pretty simple, more carbon is produced by termites than all of mankind, and it is plant food, carbon is what keeps our planet green, not hot. The ultimate greenhouse gas is water vapor, and we evaporate 8 gallons of water for every gallon of ethanol we produce,

Posted by Joe Bagori on 2014-09-04 19:15:05

The Soviet Union and China were not non-capitalist in anything but name. As long as there is a class system based on the movement or control of capital, there is capitalism.

Posted by Ashford Wyrd on 2014-09-04 14:03:15

Sure we can, by divesting those parasites of their assets, whether it be by rejecting the current money standard, or by standing up as a class - the working class - and seizing the means of production.

Naomi, someone who just my new article in the Huffington Post sent me the link to your article and suggested we connect. There is much alignment. I bless you and would love to speak via phone.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/audrey-...

Posted by Audrey Addison Williams on 2014-09-04 07:40:23

Find an action locally. Be seen and heard. You are correct in your observation regarding survival as a species.

Posted by Jack Wolf on 2014-09-04 07:20:22

Every social ill we face is the result of the massive wealth gap between the very well off and the rest of us. We can't fix anything that those who hold title to nearly all the nations assets don't want to fix. END OF STORY

Posted by Don Nasca on 2014-09-03 21:22:38

I didn't much care for the Shock Doctrine. Some of it is interesting and it does present some issues to be aware of but she is really just a journalists. She throws out a lot of complaints and never really a single solution for the problems our world faces. She definitely has the easy job. It's easy to question every decision that everyone else makes when you don't ever actually have to present any solutions of your own.

Posted by jarenolds on 2014-09-03 21:03:59

We all can't afford to go to New York and many of us are not healthy enough to travel.You can't mention fossil fuel use without mentioning why we continue be stuck with it.It's because the most powerful people in the country profit from it and figure the rest of us can go pound sand..As a Social Democrat I do unlike other posters have a problem with capitalism .We need to shift to an economy of production for use if we are going to survive as a species.

Posted by DavidD on 2014-09-03 19:12:27

The basic cause of our problems are economic.We need to tax the uber wealthy at a 90% rate to get America working to clean up the mess they made and reduce thier influence on our political process.We have to switch to a renewable energy base from a carbon one as quickly as we can.

Posted by DavidD on 2014-09-03 18:59:03

Perhaps, that road goes both ways though as you are aware. I will have to wait and read the book before I make any sort of informed post. Cheers.

Posted by creox on 2014-09-03 16:24:28

creox;

I may not have changed a lot of minds; frankly, I'm not sure how many actual minds capable of change there were here to begin with. However, as you seem to demonstrate, I sure seem to have set the "gimme, gimme" crowd to scurrying out of the woodwork!

"We need to fix ourselves, not fix the world." I couldn't agree more with this statement but it's unclear what Kline is suggesting we do to fix ourselves. Yes, capitalism and the economy are the monster we created. This monster will destroy the world if we don't choose to fight it in a collective barrage of wits. Personally, I think it starts when we stand back, as individuals, and recognize what's really important. I think most of us will get that the important things can not be bought and they don't cause global destruction.

Posted by Matt Palmer on 2014-09-03 10:36:52

Why are Klein's nostrils asymmetrical? I guess that's all I got out of this.

Posted by IndianaBruce on 2014-09-03 10:26:01

Oops, I gave you an up vote by accident. I thought, surely this must be Daniel's words in response to the tripe you've been spouting off. May you awaken to the reality of our predicament very soon or may you, at the very least, shut your mouth.

Posted by Matt Palmer on 2014-09-03 10:10:56

There are 7 billion of us now burning up the planet, and the solution is us, the solution is self-control. =

Posted by MJA on 2014-09-03 08:55:04

Jeremy;

Yeah, I would guess people such as yourself wouldn't consider an adherence to actual facts and a disdain for B.S. as adding "one bit of value" to ANY "discussion". Heck, if you guys aren't allowed to promulgate uncontested the crappola you make up out of the whole cloth, then what chance do you have?

Sorry, Sport, but in light of the posts on this thread, I think a lot of reasonable people out there (which, granted, there aren't many of whom who would frequent THIS particular type of blog!) would tend to disagree with your assessment of where - and by whom - a "shred of intelligence" was applied....although I'm sure they would value highly what YOU brought to this discusssion! [smile]

Anyway, I realized a long time ago that it's the nature of "gimme, gimme" people to bitterly resent those who just say "no" to their demands. But, as much as you may dislike such a response, I suggest you get used to it.....if, for no other reason than the fact that just railing against those who bring a touch of reality to your world simply "ain't gonna' cut it".

Meanwhile, no doubt we can continue to depend on YOU to keep bringing us that "one bit of value", can't we? [grin]

Cheers!

Posted by Ken_Meyer on 2014-09-03 08:47:04

why wait?

Posted by booley on 2014-09-03 07:28:56

ken meyer you have not added one bit of value to this "discussion". all i've read is you brow beating everyone who has the sense to rail back against you. maybe because you started with the insults. maybe because you haven't added a shred of intelligence to the debate. maybe because you come off like a paid shill. i assume there are no mirrors in your home.

Posted by Jeremy Hodder on 2014-09-03 05:58:51

and yet much of how they operate is like capitalism. extracting as much as they can from the planet to keep pace with their consumption...

Posted by Jeremy Hodder on 2014-09-03 05:53:15

Looking forward to this book!! Previously No Logo I thought was great and the Shock Doctrine very well researched and in line with what people need to know about government/military intentions

Posted by Barrie Hebb on 2014-09-03 05:17:11

How about taking her ideas to China and India.

Posted by jesus666 on 2014-09-01 17:17:21

Looking forward to Naomi Klein's new book,and in particular to her assessment of Fukushima in light of the fact that many global warming/climate change believers are supporters of nuclear power. I will be curious to see if she's a supporter of monetary reform. Don't recall that she had much to say on this topic in Shock Doctrine. I'll find a copy at Malaprop's and look before I leap. Ever since Chomsky's denial that 9/11 was an inside job I see lefties much differently than before.....

Posted by jadan on 2014-08-31 22:01:10

Joe;

Maybe just a little resentment showing there, 'eh Sport? [smile] In any case, it looks like you can pair yourself up in my estimation with "daniel" here.

Have fun!

Posted by Ken_Meyer on 2014-08-31 03:45:13

Now we know where all those lemmings jumped. Not off a cliff. In a crevice . I bet you save a lot on toilet paper don't you . i KNOW ! You're grinning wildly now , huh? If any Puerto Ricans are reading don't think our constitution singles you out because of location or cultural differences. We need you guys to stabilize what we use to call democracy. Verdad !

Posted by Joe W. on 2014-08-30 23:17:11

I think he is lucid and dominated by his wife who makes him write this stuff in order to secure her domain which he calls home and she may be the author in question. They're both hoarders and horrible patriots.

Posted by Joe W. on 2014-08-30 23:07:35

Anyone concerned about the jobs crisis should sign thepetition to revive the public works jobs programs of the1930's- the WPA and CCC. Dead silence from the corporate media about this obvious remedy. Unfortunately I've gotten no reply when I've sent this to the AFL-CIO. Hopefully, more grassroots type people here will sign to push the politicians to get moving on this. Obama was asked about it in 2010, and said "We just don't have the money." Of course, there was money for corporate bailouts and wars never-ending.The WPA and CCC worked, creating more than 10 million jobs. Though imperfect, they proved that jobs CAN be created by the public sector, when the private sector isn't creating enough jobs.Of course, the Con's won't go for it, but we also have to light a fire under the neo-liberals.www.thepetitionsite.com/773/34...wpaccc-jobs/Thanks!

Posted by rogb on 2014-08-30 19:34:22

Joe;

Nice try! However, if you had read what I wrote a little more carefully, you might have noted that the phrase I used was....

"...is best compared to the progress the PROVERBIAL lemmings made TOWARD the cliff"

....which entailed NO real "lemmings" and certainly NO real lemmings "jumping" from a cliff into the "oceans". In short, there wasn't any "lie" about it. On the other hand, I'm not sure that the same can said about YOUR assertion; seems you went a little overboard in terms of misrepresentation, didn't you?

Question: why is it that people such as yourself and so many others on blogs like this are so quick to jump to unjustified conclusions, and/or make up "facts" when it suits them? Is it simple ignorance? Or is it just an outright lack of integrity? Honest, reasonable people would like to know.

Posted by Ken_Meyer on 2014-08-30 18:34:31

But how do we get "the masses" behind the movement?

Posted by magistre on 2014-08-30 17:45:40

What about the whales & trees don't they do more for the world than the bitch that wrote the book ?

Posted by Joe W. on 2014-08-30 17:42:02

Lemmings never jumped from a cliff into the ocean. That was a lie. Global warming is here. If you are to republicanized to accept it then quit judging the sane that don't buy her book.

Posted by Joe W. on 2014-08-30 17:37:52

Clearly anti-capitalism can't be the solution, because much environmental degradation and pollution was and is caused by non-capitalist regimes, such as that in the Soviet Union and in the Peoples Republic of China.

Posted by mbrenman on 2014-08-30 15:40:20

Who's the "Mr.Jones" that Zimmerman is referring to?

Posted by Daniel platt on 2014-08-28 17:20:45

Listen to "The Ballad of a thin man" by Zimmerman.

Posted by Daniel platt on 2014-08-28 17:19:19

"Daniel"

Take it whatever way you want it, Sport! [smile]

That said, I think I'm withdrawing from this "conversation" now. It's obvious that you have nothing to offer to it, and my responding to such silliness isn't making me look any too good either.

Have fun!

Posted by Ken_Meyer on 2014-08-28 14:59:45

Why are you on this site? Do you want me to give you a tummy rub? Or would you prefer Fred Koch to do the honors? You need reassurance that you need not to be so scared. The boogeyman won't hurt you. What else can I do to ease your anxiety? Lmk.

Posted by Daniel platt on 2014-08-28 14:55:38

daniel;

"Puerto Rico" "cowardly un patriotic". "white boy" Right! [grin!]

Posted by Ken_Meyer on 2014-08-28 14:50:48

Don't be scared!!! Mommy (Ayn Rand) and Daddy(uncle Milton) will rub your tummy and give you milk and cookies so their white boys (you) won't hang out on sites(in these times) or waste their time worrying about big daddy Govt ruining your Plutocracy. You can go to bed now!! My little scared white boy. You want a sleep over? You want a tummy rub? Make it all feel better that the ghost of Keynes won't scare such a little boy who peas in his pants when we DC and New York will re implement Keynesian policies.

Posted by Daniel platt on 2014-08-28 14:47:31

Daniel;

Not like you to jump to conclusions, is it? I.e. - I'm a "scared little white boy" , am I? [smile]

As for you nothing to be scared of", it's not a "scare", exactly, that motivates me, but more like a reaction to parasites and vermin generally; one might not actually fear them, but they sure don't do much to enhance your life experience.

In any case, thanks for yet another "logical", "fact-driven" response. It sure seems as though this blog is well-endowed with those able to make 'em, doesn't it? [grin!]

Posted by Ken_Meyer on 2014-08-28 12:32:06

Continue to enjoy jerking off over Neo-Liberalism !!! You have no reason to be scared of Naomi! Just a terrified scared little white boy !! If I were you I pray that the U.S stays off the gold standard!! You really have nothing to be scared of! It won't be until the next generation that you will see Keynesian policies. You go on these sites to see the future which terrifies you nothing but a scared little white boy.

Posted by Daniel platt on 2014-08-28 11:55:18

daniel;

You do realize, don't you, that based on your posts here, no reasonable person is going to give much credit to ANY "suggestions" you might make. Nor are your "beliefs" going to be of much concern to them. You see, you've already fully "identified" yourself. Look at your "Puerto Rico" spiel, by way of example. Simply put, you can't demonstrate such utter ignorance on a topic you're "blowing" on and have much of chance of convincing knowledgeable people that there's some validity in what you have to say. Things just don't work that way.

Sorry!

Posted by Ken_Meyer on 2014-08-28 04:27:03

Its not a Democrat, Republican issue. I am not against Capitalism at all.(Keynes saved Capitalism) I do have friends who subscribe to Marxian economics, and truthfully, I am not sure exactly what that means(He He) Democrats jump on the Neo-Liberal bandwagon as much as the Republicans do. So, you have no reason to waste your time being a scared little white boy, just make sure(to your benefit) that the U.S stays off the gold standard and more "Fake it till you make it" Ponzi schemes and wealth confiscation remains the standard practice of our one party(Plutocracy) system!!! i am sure that you will!!! P.S enjoy jerking off over those pictures of Milton Friedman.

Posted by daniel platt on 2014-08-27 22:15:15

You have no reason to be scared of Naomi Klein!! she has no influence on policy of any kind with the power brokers and the ruling elite in D.C and New York. To the benefit of people, such as yourself, nobody, (mainstream media) pays much attention to someone like Naomi Klein. I can say for myself that most , if not all of my beliefs in economic policy came from John Maynard Keynes, not Naomi Klein. I suggest a good read for you, a book written by Robert Skidelsky, titled "Keynes" The return of the master. The ideas of Keynes, if they are implemented or re-implemented, then people like yourself will run in terror for your mommy and daddy, like the filthy,scum of the earth , cheese eaters that you are.

Posted by daniel platt on 2014-08-27 21:54:19

daniel;

Yeah, as you've demonstrated in your posts above, a "knowledgeable" person such as yourself would know, wouldn't you? [grin!]

Keep jumpin' those bandwagons, "daniel". After all, no one has ever claimed it took much in the way of intelligence or an ability to think independently in order chant the mantra "gimme, gimme" over and over again, have they? And just keep making sure those "un patriotic cowards" don't move to "Puerto Rico" on us, OK? [cackle]

Have a good one!

Posted by Ken_Meyer on 2014-08-26 20:09:19

The Vulture Capitalists are a bunch of un-patriotic cowards who don't want to pay any taxes because, they like you, do not like the policies of our central Government. They despise any form of Government intruding in their lives. People like you were vulnerable, easy prey to the Neo-Liberalism of Reagan. Laze-Faire everything!!! I don't blame people such as you for why we live in a "Fake it till you make it" instability in the markets, one shock after another. Just that your ignorance and gullibility staggers me!!! and how easy it was for Reagan to(with the aide of the media) control the herd of sheep, the bewildered herd of sheep "A nation of Sheep" (William J. Lederer)

Gosh, "daniel", who would have guessed that a worthy such as YOU could bring such "logic" to bear on a topic! I always wondered where authors like Klein found suckers willing to buy the tripe they sell.....and here I've discovered that such intellectual giants exist in spades!

And you're speaking of companies moving to Puerto Rico "because the corporate tax rate is only 4%" coupled with their being "patriotic cowards".....gosh!!!! And here I had been led to believe that Puerto Rico was part of the United States, and that its citizens were also United States citizens and, as such, were as "patriotic"- and in the same fashion - as other U.S. citizens. I also adhered to the apparent misconception that, as part of the United States, Puerto Rico had the same Federal corporate tax rate as the rest of the country. Thankfully I had an "intelligent" and "educated" individual like you on hand to correct what was obviously "false information"!

S.h.h.h.e.e.e.e.s.h!!! "Patriotic cowards"? Because they move to PUERTO RICO!?! What next? Will those "patriotic cowards" dare to move to Kentucky, maybe? Or Utah? Or even Oregon? Oh, the travesty of it all!!!

You really don't leave people having much doubt as to which path you took when you came to the "sanity" fork in the road, do ya' guy? [smile] In any case, you probably ought to track down your Daddy or your Mommy now and ask them to check your diaper. I think it needs changing.

Good luck!

Posted by Ken_Meyer on 2014-08-25 01:03:02

Robin;

That's what Capitalism does, does it? I.e. - it "seeks to attack the planet and deplete the resources" and such? [grin!]

Gosh, it sure looks like you've made an insightful analysis of things! And obviously you've got the experience to back it up as well....after all, YOU'VE MET "MULTI MILLIONAIRES"! Impressive!!!

Thanks for your valuable input [smile]

Posted by Ken_Meyer on 2014-08-25 00:34:42

Hi Bruce!!! i am very impressed that you made the intelligent decision to ignore the hyperbole from the other person!!! Thats a very hard thing to do, to ignore comments coming from a neanderthal!!!!

Posted by daniel platt on 2014-08-24 23:56:12

your the rugged individual? Put down your copy of "Atlas Shrugged" and stick up your ###***** !!!!! This is not a " I am gonna scapegoat" the poor, or dump your pathetic "Objectivism" twisted value system that punishes working poor people into abject poverty, while the transnationals receive massive subsidies on the backs of working poor people. Stop jerking off over pictures of Ronald Reagan. People like you( if you are one) who are Vulture Capitalist(venture capitalists) move their companies to Puerto Rico because the corporate tax rate is only 4%. are un patriotic cowards!!!

Posted by daniel platt on 2014-08-24 23:47:37

Why don't you just jerk off over a picture of Milton Friedman or how about Ayn Rand? or the those who control the policy tanks and dictate economic policy!! Why are you on this site?to see how the sane people think? We stand for the population, not the stakeholders, money managers the ponzi schemers who confiscate wealth from the poor. I am not against Capitalism, not at all, Keynes saved Capitalism, I agree with Keynesian policies, not uncle Milton(bald headed schmuck) Friedman's wealth confiscation and never ending "Fake it till you make it" Ponzi schemes.

Posted by daniel platt on 2014-08-24 23:33:53

Those who confiscate the wealth!!! Wealth confiscation has been at all time highs consistently, since the U.S went off the gold standard in 1971. That was the original "Fake till you make it" Ponzi scheme. The Bretton Woods agreements were repealed when we went off the gold standard. Goodbye John Maynard Keynes, Hello Milton Friedman!!! Hello to a perpetual "Fake it till you make it" wealth confiscation of the poor!!! Which translates into? Low wages, no unions, no collective bargaining, no consumer rights, no consumer protection the disintegration of the middle class and severe market volatility of bubbles, courtesy of Milton Friedman.(Shock doctrine)

Posted by daniel platt on 2014-08-24 23:23:29

Capitalism does not exist to benevolently serve the needs of humans. It seeks to attack the planet and deplete the resources as fast as possible and the person who dies with the most wins. I have met multi millionaires and they all play the game of trying not to pay the lunch bill, just out of boredom.

Posted by Robin Mavrick on 2014-08-24 20:37:18

Take a look at productivity and wages in the USA and you will see the great drift between wealth creation and those at the top hoarding it.

Posted by Robin Mavrick on 2014-08-24 20:36:15

bruce;

Gosh, a "gimme, gimme' artist putting someone who breathes a bit of reality into a discussion on "ignore" status. Wonders never cease! [cackle]

Don't worry, "bruce"...your kind don't particularly value intelligence, logic, integrity, or keeping one's head out of the sand. I'm completely sure that your comrades won't think any less of you at all for simply bowing out of a discussion that involved a measured confrontation with reality.

I just regret that, because I'm being "ignored", you won't have the opportunity to read this response. [smile] But of course, as they say, "ignorance is bliss".

Be happy!

Posted by Ken_Meyer on 2014-08-24 19:03:28

You really are a sorry, pathetic individual!

To you, parasitic wealthy corporations that steal the wealth of communities ar e"job creators" & the hard-working families that working and actually created wealth, whose pensions/health care were stolen by these parasites are "takers!"

You are a sorry, pathetic self-hating individual! (feel free to write what you want---you are hereby ignored!!

Posted by bruce bostick on 2014-08-24 18:49:04

bruce;

Re: your "...who actually fight for social/economic progress".....what a load of CRAP! The "progress" you "fight" for is best compared to the progress the proverbial lemmings made toward the cliff. As for what you "HAVE seen", I'm glad you bring up those "hard working steelworker families in Ohio"...the very "hard working families" ("families"?????) who, as USW members, drove this nation's steel industry to near non-existence, simply because they didn't see any reason to be competitive. They - like you - seemed to think the world would go on subsidizing them ad infinitum. You know what? It didn't happen that way. They quite literally DROVE their jobs (and their pensions with them) away from our shores...and now scum like YOU are blaming those "corporate folks" - the very people who provided them with jobs in the first place - for these fine, upstanding "working families" OWN failures???? Again...what CHEEK!

"Gimme, gimme"...and never take any personal responsibility When does it end with parasites like you?

Let me ask, IF IT ISN"T NAOMI KLEIN'S JOB TO PRODUCE JOBS, then WHOSE IS IT? What relieves HER - or YOU, for that matter - of the responsibility for satisfying the demands that you're so willing to make on OTHERS?!? That said, I think you and I know that individuals like Naomi Klein really have no "job" in the productive sense whatsoever. The closest a piece of human waste like her will come to being productive is documenting [so-called] "workers' STEALING the property earned by others...a process which she not only promoted, but also participated in. Now, maybe you're willing to honor scum like that, and excuse them by saying "it's not their job"....but I'm not. I think criminals are just that; criminals. And, furthermore, I DON'T WANT TO SUPPORT THEIR PARASITIC ASSES ANYMORE!

Lastly, do I care if the "income wealth gap" (not sure what that is, because "income" and "wealth" are two entirely different things) widens between people like me (i.e. - "the contributors") and you (i.e. - "the parasites")? Not in the slightest. In fact, I would be upset IF IT DIDN'T! You see, I EARN my income. I've EARNED my wealth. Why should WE use our EARNED income and our EARNED wealth to subsidize your dead-beat asses? Why should WE make good YOUR failures? Simply because you can yell "gimme, gimme" over and over again? I think not!

Lastly, it hasn't gone unnoticed that you have yet to come up with any reference to a POSITIVE contribution you and your kind make to society economically. Meanwhile, you've also made it ABUNDANTLY clear that you plan on continuing your "gimme, gimme" demands. All I'm doing here is telling you that I believe your free ride is finally coming to end. You might not like the way that future of yours looks - after all, what will people like you do if you aren't warranted some form of welfare or another? - but that's not really my problem. If you can't exist without our assistance, then so be it. No doubt the world would be better off without you and, after all, you WERE warned!

Anyway, that's what's facing you. How you deal with it is up to you. If you want to keep honoring zeros like "Naomi Klein" - who hasn't accomplished a productive thing in her entire life - while disparaging the very entities and persons that make your miserable existence possible, then you go right ahead. Just know that, from my perspective, that probably wouldn't be the brightest thing you could do....but, then again, when have lemmings and parasites ever been particularly known for their intelligence? Persistence?..."yes". Intelligence?...."no".

Now I can see what you do stand for & why you despise Ms. Klein (& myself, as well as others who actually fight for social/economic progress). yes, I HAVE seen what the wonderful corporate interests you are so enthralled with do. Those folks stole the pensions/health care of thousands of hard-working steelworker families in Ohio, with the help of the Bush administration. I could explain to you, but I do not (1) think that you'd understand, being so blinded by corporate mis-direction & outright ignorance, (2) I do not believe that you actually have any concern for actual people, & without any empathy you'd only look on the lives of these folks as another reason for a rant against working folks, supporting your corporate masters.

It is not Naomi Klein's JOB to "produce jobs!" It IS her job, as an author, to expose us to new ideas, well thought out ones. These she does very well.

You may not know (probably don't care), but the income wealth gap between those in the top 1% that you so admire & the rest of our nation is the widest it has ever been, & growing rapidly. Rather than the tired old ridiculous rhetoric about creating jobs," these folks are in the job of making themselves (not you/me, our families or society) wealthy. This gap means that the rest of us do not have the where with all to purchase things to keep capitalism functioning, which results in a major downturn economically.

If you would do so, you might read "Shock Doctrine" in order to be informed on how the corporations create not jobs, but disasters in order to put us all in fear so that we run from our own interests. Ah, but what we will get isn't a n informed, intelligent response. We'll all be waiting on your next angry rant!

I am sorry for you!

Posted by bruce bostick on 2014-08-24 17:59:10

bruce;

Sorry, but I refuse to consider any individual who advocates in a manner that DESTROYS economic and social resources a "progressive"...although I realize how often individuals such as yourself bandy the term about as a self-patronizing way of back-patting. Nor do I consider it "good works" when individuals pursue avenues that DEPRIVE people of job opportunities. Nor, for that matter, do I consider it doing "good work" when one criticizes the very entities that actually DO "good works" by way of providing jobs that sustain workers....especially when the one doing the criticizing is not making any credible contribution to the economy herself. Tell me; how many jobs is Klein providing workers HERSELF? More than Wal-Mart? More than UPS? More than IBM? More than any of the other entities that "the corporate ruling class" controls?

She decries "Band-Aid" solutions.. but at least such is a real attempt at a solution. What does SHE PERSONALLY have to offer?

Let me tell you who those who actually DO make a contribution to society are "sick" of. They're sick of people like YOU! They're sick of people like Naomi Klein! In fact, they're pretty much sick of ALL the parasites out there who are quick to criticize those they are dependent upon, but do virtually NOTHING themselves in terms of improving the human condition. They - the true contributers - are tired of supporting all the freeloaders out there. Simply put, they're tired of putting forth the effort to maintain society as they watch people like you trying to tear it down.

Face it; people like Klein can't honestly "highlight" anything...if, for no other reason than that she virtually doesn't KNOW anything to "highlight". She has no experience in making significant economic contributions, nor any particular insight into those who do. Instead, she's enveloped herself in a furnace of bitterness against those who actually DO make contributions.

Now, if you want to look up to "those who have done good work for our people", then I suggest you take an HONEST look at those "corporate" interests you seem to despise....and compare what they have to offer - and HAVE OFFERED! - workers with what parasites like Klein provide. Maybe you'll arrive at a different conclusion than I have, but as far as I can see, people generally do a lot better in terms of survival and "living" when they're provided wages and the means to feed themselves as opposed to just being fed a plateful of the dogmatic bullsh_t that is the only thing people like Klein have to offer them.

Posted by Ken_Meyer on 2014-08-24 09:52:16

To the rest of us, Naomi Klein has paid her dues & is a fine progressive writer. She has moved our fight forward, whether I agree with every word in every book. 'Shock Doctrine,' especially, was a fine piece that highlighted how the corporate ruling class purposely creates crisis' in order to force people into dead end, pro-corporate "solutions." I, for one, anyway, am really sick of, frustrated with, folks that get up on the wrong side of the bed & then train all their pent up frustrations at folks who've done good work for our people, the people's movement. So, in answer to your question, No, its Not 'too difficult for me-----it is too wrong-headed, whinnie, mis-directed & just plain UNhelpful, at least for me!

Posted by bruce bostick on 2014-08-24 09:12:43

bruce;

Seem to me that it's a perfectly valid question that arises from simple curiosity. I'm also curious as to why you would lack knowledge of "where that comes from". Too difficult for you?

Posted by Ken_Meyer on 2014-08-23 21:21:31

Having a bad day? Don't know where that comes from!!

Posted by bruce bostick on 2014-08-23 20:58:59

This thumbnail review doesn't do anything for me, I hope the book is much better. The idea that somehow a "mass movement" emerges without one word (again, at least in this particular review) about the need to actually create real, living-wage, union jobs in the new Green Energy economy tells me that these folks do not have any contact with real live people! The only way that the corporate right is able to reach, even mobilize, working people to defend the old & deadly fossel fuels industry is by yelling that their jobs will disappear. Unfortunately, in almost all cases they are right & all we have to tell them are that their grandchildren will have good jobs, a better planet.

The new Green industry actually DOES create great jobs, many organized by the union I'm proud to be a member of, the United Steelworkers Union (USW). UAW represents some workers in this area also. USW helped found the Blue/Green Alliance, the coalition of unions & environmentalists fighting for climate justice. These new Green jobs, building solar panels, reequiping office buildings & apartments with better, green, fuel, installing new energy, etc, etc. must become the jobs of the future. Unfortunately, people don't know much about them & their creation has till not been a central focus of the climate change movement.

Why should hard-working mineworker families in West Virginia, African American autoworkers in Michigan and so, so many other working folk have to suffer, losing jobs, income, health care, while the very wealthy corporate interests that got obscenely wealthy driving our planet to the brink of climate disaster get bailed out! We MUST demand that the creation of new green industries be developed, & that they get the huge public, govt., support that now goes to the old, harmful fossel fuels industry.

That is only just! Plus it is the only way (or some similar coupling of the issues) that a true MASS MOVEMENT will be able to be built! (& I still hope its just a crummy review & a great book---Klein's others have been)

Posted by bruce bostick on 2014-08-23 20:55:21

One always has to wonder if parasites like Klein realize that their very existence is dependent upon the "capitalism" she and those like her so vocally despise.

Posted by Ken_Meyer on 2014-08-23 04:59:24

Very excited about Klein's new book! I was riveted by the Shock Doctrine which had loads and loads of fantastic original journalism. Her stuff is top grade.

Posted by ProfKoolhouse on 2014-08-22 07:59:03

In the late 60s early 70s, the Neo-Liberal hawks were promoting the propaganda of "Crisis of Democracy" when the population were exercising their constitutional and Democratic right to protest peacefully (Viet Nam,Civil Rights)in a public assembly(freedom of assembly) Samuel Huntington described the so called "Crisis" as a increase in "Govt activity, and a decrease in Govt authority," which essentially means, to much Democracy!! The major obstacle that we have today is the massive increase in Govt authority and a complete absence of Govt support(active Govt) of the people, by the people. History has shown(at least in the U.S) that when Govt activity increases, the will and the power of the people increases.

Posted by Daniel Platt on 2014-08-21 23:10:23

Do you find a healthy sense of self-preservation to be humourous?

Posted by CB on 2014-08-21 17:47:37

lol

Posted by DaBilk on 2014-08-21 16:10:03

I shall defend our island planet, whatever the cost may be, I shall fight on the beaches, I shall fight on the landing grounds, I shall fight in the fields and in the streets, I shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender to the fossil fuel foe. It is no use saying, 'We are doing our best.' You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary. This is our ultimate challenge, the stuff that epic history is made of. Don't stay home and watch it on the tele. Be there and share