It's not just the tokens. In addition to tokens dailies reward charms and VP. If you skip your 20 minutes of dailies for a couple of nights you're going to have to make them up with several hours' worth of dungeon runs over the weekend. This isn't exclusive to dailies, and it wasn't the case in Cataclysm. You could go all week without running dungeons and the run seven of them on Saturday to obtain the same reward that you would have gotten doing one a night. Now you're forced to go through your little chore list every night unless you want to take three times as long to accomplish the same thing on the weekend. Dailies used to be nice-to-do but now they're better than the alternative. I don't want to play a game that punishes me for missing an night, and that was a big part of the reason I unsubscribed.

you would have a point with 5.0, but currently in game, doing the barrens weekly, isle weekly, killing rare mobs, heroic scenarios, LFR, etc. all give valor. i don't even try to cap these days and it just happens.

It's his opinion, but I don't agree with most of it. He's stuck in nostalgia mode. I mean, he liked earning a talent point to use while leveling, but then goes on to say that most talents were useless. Yet he said the talents were better. That doesn't even make sense. lol.

Old quest progression was horrible, but I guess some people liked that. You could jump around to different zones and then just end up with a whole bunch of random quest lines stuck in your log. I remember being sent to Sepulcher from a Barrens quest. Why was I sent there? What about all those other Barrens quest lines I was on? Nope, just a pointless delivery quest that took you out of all the quest stories in the Barrens and stuck you on the other continent.

Like I said, some people like random quest flow that sends you all over for no good reason. I personally found it annoying since I had a log full of Barrens quests and had to make my way back there to finish them.

At least the Badlands quest had a point since you would need that FP at level 60.

It was so nonlinear that portions of the game were just "go grind mobs." I quit Everquest for a reason, because I don't find tedium enjoyable. I wasn't happy that shit was in WoW in the slightest.

You know what was great about Vanilla questing, along with big parts of TBC, Wrath and Cata? You werent funneled into a single zone right off the bat, and for all intents and purposes, had to stay in that zone almost until level cap. I have yet to be able to complete the jade forest before reaching or almost reaching 90 on any of my characters.

This points out another flaw in MoP, a lot of content overstays its welcome. Between the very few dungeons you can run, 0 scenarios pre 90, and always having to scamper through the jade forest on foot when you enter the continent (until adequate level to do the other zones), the burnout is atrocious. The only other time in WoW where this was an issue was TBC with hellfire, and yet you could leave that zone after the first level or 2, OR even skip it altogether and go to zangermarsh...and not get obliterated by the mobs because you were 50 Ilvls short of where you needed to be. In all other starting spots in wow, you had at least 2 spots you could go to, and often you could skip ahead to another zone and not run into a roadblock via quest lvl requirements or monster power. Pre MoP, you could even enter the next expansion area 2 lvls early and do just fine, and even get a jump start with much better gear and xp rewards.

Everything in MoP is restricted, between when and where you can do content, as well as how often you can do it. Vanilla and other content wasnt like a graphic novel by todays standards, but it didnt need to be linear and restrictive to give you a great story and engross you into the game. Each zone, and most quest hub areas had a story to tell, an INTERESTING story to tell. They didnt need to be lined up in a linear timeline sequence for you to understand and follow them, they were all parts of the same story, and you had the option to choose when and how you wanted to go about piecing it together. Vanilla content overall could be considered linear in overarching design, but its execution was as wide open as a tsunami, rather than traversing the mississippi. In previous content, everything lead up to a singular point, a definitive conclusion, all part of a grand scheme; In MoP , no points move or are reached until yo make them move forward, one step at a time. Like a board game, you have to traverse a singular path, you can only advance once predetermined contingencies have been met.

A tree in MoP does not fall down unless it's cut from an axe, even if you use a chainsaw to cut it down. The tree does not even appear until you find a specific brand of truck to drive to it with. And the lumber mill will not even recognize that it is a tree you cut down, until you go help the old women down the street with finding her cat.

In vanilla, you could borrow a saw from the lumber mill, cut the tree down that the cat is hiding on top of, and sell the axe on your way out of town to the next zone, across the river, by swimming over it instead of taking a pre arranged taxi around it.

As for the everquest comparison:

WoW was leagues ahead of every mmo when it came to streamlined and "fun" leveling. Most games like EQ and DAOC , which were the prominent titles in that time, could barely get a quest system that was more involved than having to find a random npc and typing out the correct /cmd to get them to possibly give you a box to click, which was apparently a quest. They never had good directions of where to go, or how to complete the quest properly. In all seriousness, people NEVER go into questing in previous games, and leveling was done via grinding mobs, mostly in the required "full group" (which almost always needed a very specific allotment of classes to even work). There was no extensive quest system like in WoW, no "grandiose" dungeon lineup to fight in (which were instanced, as opposed to everything being open world in other games), and grinding mobs in wow was 100x easier than and forgiving than in previous games.

WoW was literally the end all and be all of mmos. It took every single bs feature of other games, and made them more enjoyable. There was a reason why WoW became so popular, so fast, and it wasnt because it was "super tedious". Can you argue that wow is the "better game" these days? No, but when the end of 2004 came around the last bend, everyone who had been either enjoying their current game because they didnt have better, or were frustrated but not enough to quit because they didnt have better, or had never played an mmo before because of any combination of the 2 previous statements and others, NOW had a better game.

People didnt quit games for WoW and go "hmm...this is just the same thing that i was playing before" . There was literally NO other game on the market, and for a long time afterwards, that came close to what wow offered, and its accessibility. WoW was like getting rich, having a huge property, huge mansion, amusement park, fully staffed workforce to take care of you and your stuff, getting a partnership at a law firm, developing the cure for cancer, etc. and going "hmm.....now that I have all this new positive stuff in my life, I realize that ive already slept in a bed before, this isnt much better than where I was at all."

You cannot compare everquest's 'Kill 1000 mobs to gain a bar of xp' to WoW's 'kill 20 mobs to gain a bar of xp' , and call WoW tedious in the same realm of why you quit everquest. Does WoW have tedious components in it? Yes, but only in comparison to what is tedious for WoW, not what is tedious in comparison to other games, which require 10x or more effort for the same thing. People complain about how slow leveling in WoW is, like getting 1-90 in a week or two is too tedious, forgetting or not realizing when it use to take 14 days /played to reach the level cap.

Can't believe he complained about talent system, it's better now than ever n people get new spells when they ding, they get told what's new n can instantly try them, so people learn better, what is wrong with that?

Originally Posted by Skroe

And since when has UN backing mattered for anything?
China and Russia are global rogues, trampling international norms...
I would rather my country be perceived from time to time, as a global bully...

We don't play WoW for the purest sense of enjoyement anymore, in Vanilla I was content running through zones because I adored the music and the scenery, how sad am I?

Now you play WoW to get stuff... thats it, and Blizzard keep you paying your subs by giving to you but dragging it out over a period of time...You might be a hardcore raider that feels different about this, but I am not really talking about you, I am talking about the largest part of the player base.., the average player.

One of the things I remember about Vanilla and to a lesser extent TBC was how BG was still something most people still did, finish a raid... someone would say "anyone for some pvp?" ... I loved that... gear didn't put you off so much. I am happy that the more PvP minded players have their own area endgame in WoW and they are rewarded for it, but I always missed the random PvP games that seemed to be filled with just about anybody and you'd find yourselves working together to co-ordinate a flag drop or supporting a base.

We don't play WoW for the purest sense of enjoyement anymore, in Vanilla I was content running through zones because I adored the music and the scenery, how sad am I?

Now you play WoW to get stuff... thats it, and Blizzard keep you paying your subs by giving to you but dragging it out over a period of time...You might be a hardcore raider that feels different about this, but I am not really talking about you, I am talking about the largest part of the player base.., the average player.

That's because you were new to the genre. Any of us who played any MMO prior to WoW quickly got over the sense of newness and got back to the level and gear grind. If that is what is bothering you about WoW you can't blame it for being what it is but rather need to blame yourself for not knowing what you were getting into.

That's because you were new to the genre. Any of us who played any MMO prior to WoW quickly got over the sense of newness and got back to the level and gear grind. If that is what is bothering you about WoW you can't blame it for being what it is but rather need to blame yourself for not knowing what you were getting into.

So true people forget this very often, I hear all this nostalgic shit and I never understand since WoW has always just been another MMO to me. The best one in terms of the endgame and that is what has kept me playing it.

Wowcrendor's channel has gone so far downhill in the past year. He used to make great stuff which I enjoyed watching, even just playthroughs of things like Farming Simulator and whatnot. He seemed to possess an ability to make anything entertaining. Then for some reason he became obsessed with talking about how he became so popular and famous and how he got so many subscribers, et cetera. It's basically all he talks about all through his videos now, it seems very egocentric and is extremely disheartening and boring to listen to. He also barely posts anything these days.

I've watched this video, but seeing as, by his own admission, he's barely played Mists of Pandaria, I have a hard time accepting his experiences as valid opinions on the game. Someone who has dinged 90, run a few dungeons, and gotten a few blues does not really have insight into the game that I'd consider worthwhile, especially not when it is tainted by nostalgia so badly. Myself, I've leveled four characters to level 90, have raided in a semi-hardcore guild for the entire expansion (until very recently due to the fact that my chosen class, Blood DK, is incredibly lacking in Heroic Throne of Thunder compared to frankly disgustingly overpowered Brewmasters and Prot Paladins). I don't really think Crendor has any right to preach to the kind of player that has actually played the game.

I do agree with him about missing the positive feelings attached to acquiring a new talent point on leveling up, though.

That's because you were new to the genre. Any of us who played any MMO prior to WoW quickly got over the sense of newness and got back to the level and gear grind. If that is what is bothering you about WoW you can't blame it for being what it is but rather need to blame yourself for not knowing what you were getting into.

Yup. My first MMO was Anarchy Online. Nothing in WoW ever matched the awe I felt the first time I got lost wandering around Omni-1 at night. Looking at all the tall forboding buildings and noticing a little sweeper bot cleaning the street under a street lamp. And I still clearly remember heading towards a random mission in Newland Desert and cresting over a sand dune while the sun reflected off a tower in the distance and soaring music filled my headphones.

But I realize that that's just nostalgia talking because that was my first MMO and the whole idea of MMOs was amazing to me then.

Man I usually like his videos because he is a good voice actor, but damn his voice was so damn shaky in that video and his "uhhs" made me want to falcon punch my monitor.

He had some points though. There is absolutely no feeling of exploration in WoW anymore, it simply doesn't exist. Flying mounts are a huge contribution to this, along with the questing mechanics and other things (like overusage of flight masters/paths). There is nothing there to capture your imagination like there used to be

The lack of flying from 85-90 in MoP gave me a feeling of irritation, annoyance, and tedium(artificially slowing the leveling process by adding more travel time), not a feeling of exploration. And it didn't capture my imagination, it pissed me off. I explored a LOT more once I hit 90 and was able to fly.

I know exactly what he's talking about with LFG. Two main changes in Cataclysm (and one just prior to) made it less fun, I guarantee you that this is 100% the reason why LFG kinda sucks now:

1. Changing from emblems/badges to points. The Justice/Valor point system is just not as rewarding. Maybe it could be if the amount you received for killing a boss and completing an instance were increased, and/or costs for items were decreased. The way it is now, it just doesn't feel like each boss kill, or instance run, gets you that much closer to a new item as it used to. Attaching Justice/Valor gear progression to an array of factions was a mistake, too.

2. This one kinda ties in with the first point, there are not enough dungeons to run in Normal mode. I don't know what they were thinking with MoP (Cata was only slightly better), making all but four instances Heroic-only. If you're a casual player and you hit level 90, but don't have the gear level to go straight to Heroics, what do you do? Scenarios? Nowhere near as fun or rewarding as 5-mans. Hitting level cap is so jarring now, and has been since Cataclysm. All of the 5-mans at launch should have been tuned for Normal modes while levelling through Pandaria, and we should have received 1-3 more with 5.2 and 5.4. Scenarios should never have been seen as replacement content, but supplementary content.

3. This one came prior to Cataclysm, but I think it was a mistake: Removing dungeon dailies. I spotted the two FoS achievements I have the other day, "Timear Foresees" and whatever the other one was, for completing all the Dalaran daily dungeon quests. It was fun, unpredictable and so much more rewarding than the daily bonus for the LFG system.

Edit: Just as a final point, I'd like to add that I also think that doing away with tabards was a huge mistake. Blizzard and some players disagree on this, but I think it was a much better way of gaining rep.

Last edited by Tydrane; 2013-06-26 at 11:57 AM.

Originally Posted by Steampunkette

Didn't help that he had Sky Admiral Warcrimes McEvillaugh flying his airship for him.