I really like your ideas, especially Whipcoil and Poison Bomb, but maybe Paralytic Poison and Cloak and Dagger should be removed.
I'm DragonHeart992 by the way :P ( I wish Blizzard implemented something like Hostage ) and thanks for giving me credit!

I really like your ideas, especially Whipcoil and Poison Bomb, but maybe Paralytic Poison and Cloak and Dagger should be removed.
I'm DragonHeart992 by the way :P ( I wish Blizzard implemented something like Hostage ) and thanks for giving me credit!

Ahh! perfect, I didn't want to take credit for your idea, very original and it has gotten a lot of attention on the forum
Glad you like it

Originally Posted by Naphta

The tank is the driver, healer is the fuel. And the DPS are the kids sitting in the back crying about if they're there yet. And this is coming from a DPS.

have done absolutely nothing with the lore side for rogues, or elementals.
I believed rogues should have something shadowy, from cloak of shadows and shadow blades abilities and wanted a demo based form.
For this I chose sha which are elementals of emotion.
No clue how it would fit lore wise.

Sha Form does require a significant amount of reworking and modifying to make it fair to other classes.

---------- Post added 2013-04-26 at 01:42 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Coldkil

Most of the things in there look extremely OP and mostly non-necessary.

Last tier talents look more a "get everything we already have into here so we can free up talent spaces".

Talents should be something a player would take because they are cool, not because they are OP. And they should be fashioned in a way that taking any one of them will provide similar results, especially in terms of dps.

Sha form is extremely OP, and whipcoil with cloak and dagger is unnecessary. However, I agree with you about talents should something a player wants. As of now, the passive rogue talents are not really anything I personally want. When I select a talent, I like knowing it will either go in my action bar, or buff/debuff area.

Last edited by The_Butcher; 2013-04-25 at 11:01 AM.

Originally Posted by Naphta

The tank is the driver, healer is the fuel. And the DPS are the kids sitting in the back crying about if they're there yet. And this is coming from a DPS.

Normally I don't do this but its fun so why not? I created this yesterday just to see what ideas I could come up with for new talents. There are still a few I'm not done with such as the first tier of stealth talents. I left that alone since I can't think of anything new for those right now. I also have extensive list of notes at the end pertaining to each spec. Feel free to leave feedback.

Normally I don't do this but its fun so why not? I created this yesterday just to see what ideas I could come up with for new talents. There are still a few I'm not done with such as the first tier of stealth talents. I left that alone since I can't think of anything new for those right now. I also have extensive list of notes at the end pertaining to each spec. Feel free to leave feedback.

Thanks for the post, I do appreciate it allow me to offer some critique and commentary

Pros:
I like the third tier a lot for energy regeneration (Rogues seem to be lacking it aside from haste and combat spec)
Happy Shuriken Toss is Baseline
I'm glad Leeching Poison is Also Baseline

Cons:
I Do not like the complete revamp for combat, even moreso for making shadow blades exclusive to them.
As for the Sixth tier, I actually don't like any of the abilities.
- Shadow Clone seems like a really cheap version of Storm, Earth, and Fire for Windwalker Monks.
- Marked for Death, I found useless because combo points really haven't been an issue for me, even to this day I don't use that talent.
- Apparition reminds me of my sha form concept, only its a tooltip with no duration, no descriptive explanation at all as to what it does.

Originally Posted by Naphta

The tank is the driver, healer is the fuel. And the DPS are the kids sitting in the back crying about if they're there yet. And this is coming from a DPS.

Haven't posted for a while, but this caught my attention so I'll just throw in one little note...

Anticipation is far too powerful a tool to be a talent - our energy/combo point system is almost entirely reliant on combo point usage, and allowing us to not-waste combo points is simply too great a boon for our general rotation. It's a trivial talent - seeing as any other class with a similar resource has had its "Anticipation-talent" baselined, while we've got to actively pick ours... It makes for a boring talent choice, but it's a game changing one nonetheless.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, it shouldn't be a talent - it should be baseline and as such, I suggest you replace it with something else.

It's pretty sad to see what poor talents we have compared to what cool talents the people come up with. i really like those ideas. that + a complete overhaul of combat at sub and i would be pretty happy...

It's pretty sad to see what poor talents we have compared to what cool talents the people come up with. i really like those ideas. that + a complete overhaul of combat at sub and i would be pretty happy...

Personally not just for rogues but every class, I'd like it if we had something similar to warlocks. Where each spec we chose gave us a different resource system to use.

Originally Posted by Naphta

The tank is the driver, healer is the fuel. And the DPS are the kids sitting in the back crying about if they're there yet. And this is coming from a DPS.

Personally not just for rogues but every class, I'd like it if we had something similar to warlocks. Where each spec we chose gave us a different resource system to use.

They mentioned a possible revamp for Rogues next expansion, although not at the Warlock extend, but still significant. That is in order to differentiate specs and emphasize identity. I can imagine it is going to be wonderful.

A bunch seem like abilities that should be abilities, not talents. Some seems overpowered. Only 4th row is done sorta right with movement related stuff, rest are mixed with all sorts of stuff and not categorized, like CC, healing, AoE, etc. And what the hell is an ability called "Sha Form" doing there!? The rogues got nothing to do with the Sha and the only Sha form anyone is gonna take is if the Sha consume them. Sha Form as a class ability in any way is totally ridiculous imo.

A big problem I see with this is the lack of choice. In pretty much every tier there's a choice that's so much better than the rest that you'll be stuck with 1 specific build for PvE and another one for PvP.
Not to mention how completely overpowered some of those talents are...

A big problem I see with this is the lack of choice. In pretty much every tier there's a choice that's so much better than the rest that you'll be stuck with 1 specific build for PvE and another one for PvP.
Not to mention how completely overpowered some of those talents are...

That's how it works on the live servers right now though, isn't it?

The attempt to "give" choice seems like a meaningless effort to me. There will never be any significant choices. Not unless you multiply the amount of choices in each tier, and add several very intriguing, powerful choices in each tier, at least with the current talent model. You're looking at like 5 separate PvP and PvE choices a tier (for a total of 10 choices a tier), all of which must be drastically varied from one another. You'd basically have to create your own rotation...

However, no matter how much ability-variation you have, PvE fights will mostly remain the same. You'd still run into the obstacle that is theory-crafting, as the theory-crafters will undoubtedly have pulled the most efficient abilities out of every tier... So lots of choices will ultimately not matter anyway.

Alternatively you'd need to turn key-abilities into talents. Talents so powerful yet so different that you'd HAVE to accommodate for the situation at hand. An example would be to strip EVERY spec of its offensive cooldowns and only allow them to pick one cooldown from a tier. Going with rogues, you'd have to choose between Killing Spree for single target burst, Adrenaline Rush for sustained single target damage, or maybe pick an aoe burst cooldown of sorts. At least you'd be forced to think before choosing when encountering such a tier.

That said, the current talent tree is more of a novelty than an actual "board of choices" - it's just there to satisfy the urge of choice we all have. They could very easily just baseline most of the current trees, remove the "filler talents" (the ones no one takes and are just there to give us the illusion of choice), and the game would be virtually unchanged. Easier to balance as well, seeing as you wouldn't have to worry about abilities having to be competitive with one another.

I see a few old talents/abilities, some even from BC. I like it, but as a personal thing for me, I'm not too fond of passive talents unless they really are exceptional, I prefer picking a talent and seeing it appear in my toolbar

Originally Posted by Naphta

The tank is the driver, healer is the fuel. And the DPS are the kids sitting in the back crying about if they're there yet. And this is coming from a DPS.