I would like to see some clarification in a FAQ about how obvious some CFs are.

I hit a Spiders deck with a Puppeteer and get the net hits I need to set of a Invite Mark Matrix action. Does that Spider know his deck just did something that he didn't tell it to? Should there be a "Seeing a Resonance Action in the Matrix" ala detecting Magic in meatspace? Something like (TMs Software - Level of Complex Form) vs Computer+Intuition [Mental]. Does the Spider automatically know that I just got 4 net hits on my Diffusion of Data Processing? Does the Spider automatically know that I just got 0 net hits on my Diffusion of Data Processing?

A) quickened spells exist in the physical world and affect things that don't disappear from the physical worldB) quickened spells exist in the astral plane and affect things that don't disappear from the astral planeC) quickened spells carry other penalties, such as making a mage really easy to spot from the astral plane - this would be a doubly bad penalty for a technomancer, given that discretion and hiding are the hallmarks of a good hackD) they don't have to reboot. When you reboot your device or persona, it's gone. As in, does not exist.

Your Logic doesn't really hold. An icon is an icon; Regardless if your deck is on or off, or if your commlink is on or off, or if your AR or Fully in. Something can could easily continue to exist in the matrix without your persona or in your computer without being active.

Virtual property is still property, I mean they just sent the guy who invented that Silk Road away for life over 18 million in bit coins. It doesn't get more real then that.

But the more important question is how does this line of reasoning assist the Techno Feed back concept?

I'm not purposing techno quickening, however there is no reason, something similar couldn't be written up. Should a CF that it would be worth using it with come along. It could easily have all the same issues that quickened spells have including the risk of disruption.

But I think there are more interesting lines of development to pursue.

Something that could be cool as well is taking some of the echos and expanding on them. Like for example we got mathmagician, who people say encryption/decryption is not something in 5th... (Its not in fifth like it is in 4th, true. But at the same time there are qualities like Analytical, which also involves breaking cyphers (decrypting) )

Any case.. What about a new quality that could expound on this whole smart calculator thing, where you can use something like Mathematics or Logic or something to figure out the trajectory of all the guns and weapons and stuff?

Then like further expound upon this concept that Technomancers are capable of processing large amounts of data faster than anyone else, So the qualities for Technomancers could allow them to pull of dodging attacks, because they processed all that trajectory before hand.

Or do things like River Tam in Serenity where she uses the power of math to calculate how to shoot her gun?

Lot'sa good ideas here! I'd like to subscribe to the school of thought that Technomancers need more unique things.There's probably a bunch of rules that say "You can do either or" - Maybe a Technomancer can do both?Or rules that say failure has X consequences, but maybe a TM can alleviate them somehow?

F.Ex. Normally a Drone can run it's own autosoft, or grab them from an RCC. A TM could infuse a drone with an Autosoft despite it running it's own softs. TMs could weave a temporary CF that hides sleazy failures and attack successes. Another option would be Persona mimicry: False positives could protect a TM from being taken out by a single grey IC, after all, they take stun from both matrix- and biofeedback damage. Alternatively, allowing a technomancer to simultaneously be online in several devices. Gaining a real world bonus in combat is obviously also a great idea, so I support everything said that way already. Also +1 for a free wrapper for TMs.

All that said, I'm sort of missing an option for a TM Adept equivalent.

As for fluff: Well, there's really... not much so far, so any good stories, explanations, etc. is welcome. Looking forward to that, in any case.

I'm not sure on the drug thing Trisk, it opens the door to a lot of mess. It brings in a lot of other questions, do we really want to add addict to the list of negative phrases synonyms with technomancer?

I'd prefer to keep it focused on CF's and expanding out of the box options.

Drugs seem like a better fit for Chromed Flesh, similar to how Augmentation covered advanced medical rules in SR4. Considering the trend of 5th to do away with some of those advanced rules, however, that's no guarantee, obviously...

One thing I always wanted for Technos would be an echo that actually emulates Wired Reflexes. Reasoning: Every other archetype has ways to obtain more passes in the meat without having to sacrifice too much (Street Sams get Wired Reflexes, Adepts get Improved Reflexes and Magicians get Increase Reflexes) but the only way for a Technomancer to obtain more meat-passes is to sacrifice essence. While yes, his strengths should lie within the matrix I still don't think it would be too much to ask for them to also become a bit more capable in the meat world, should they desire that.

I'm not sure on the drug thing Trisk, it opens the door to a lot of mess. It brings in a lot of other questions, do we really want to add addict to the list of negative phrases synonyms with technomancer?

I'd prefer to keep it focused on CF's and expanding out of the box options.

Just who is giving the list of negative phrases synonyms with Technomancers? Players or NPCs?

Cause there is one drug already that is Prized by Technomancers. Psyche. Mages like it too. Mages also have one specifically for them Deepweed. Mages also have focus addictions.

Then there is hot-sim VR that Technomancers have. Or even normal VR for deckers. Then there is BTLs, which Technomancers don't typically get into, but often deckers and riggers sure as heck do. And skill wires too.

The main Thing a Technomancer does is often addicting. (Hot Sim VR) so.. I really don't see much of a change for one or two drugs to slip in, perhaps unique drugs specific to only technomancers, like Deepweed to mages. Or something to help them with no becoming a burn out from going into VR all the time.

I belive a book would run something like this..

1. Introduction2. Short Story of a Technomancer doing stuff.3. Qualities for Technomancers (Should be short, 2-3 pages of qualities at most)4. Complex forms and CFs in use 5. Echos/Advanced Echos, along with a little more on submersing6. Sprites, Sprite usage, New Sprites7. Spending Nuyen on stuff.

Something kinda like that. If drugs were included they would go in chapter 7.

I don't mind the drug thing, though you did mention a peeve of mine. I still have issue with TM's being able to be addicted to hot sim. They can't EVER experience cold sim, so it just seems odd to me that they can become addicted to something they've ALWAYS experienced that way. Thats like saying you're addicted to the cold by walking outside when you've always lived in northern Alaska (poor analogy i know...but its been a long day)

I'd like to see integrated into your little layout Trisk of ways that TM's can interact or act as some of the other archetypes. With Cha being a need for TM's the way they are for few other characters, ways and tricks that make a TM a UNIQUE face might be interesting.

Well, people can be addicted to cinnamon or soykaf. You'll also adapt to weather over long more than you'd think.

While I don't thing TMs need drugs, fluffwise, it's actually a nice idea. There was that story of a concert for awakened, why not have something similar for TMs? An Experience that only they can get into? Might as well add recreation based on resonance. ^^

Oh, while I'm at it, a suggestion for a quality: Being able to detect the 'tone' of an ingoing message nearby without reading it/having access to it.

Being able to affect shielded/wireless off devices by using resonance to form a virtual datalink would also be neat.

I don't mind the drug thing, though you did mention a peeve of mine. I still have issue with TM's being able to be addicted to hot sim. They can't EVER experience cold sim, so it just seems odd to me that they can become addicted to something they've ALWAYS experienced that way. Thats like saying you're addicted to the cold by walking outside when you've always lived in northern Alaska (poor analogy i know...but its been a long day)

I'd like to see integrated into your little layout Trisk of ways that TM's can interact or act as some of the other archetypes. With Cha being a need for TM's the way they are for few other characters, ways and tricks that make a TM a UNIQUE face might be interesting.

Well first thing you have to ask yourself.. Do Technomancers actually live their lives in VR? When a Technomancer goes walking down the street is he in VR?

Sadly, the answer is no. Remember Hot sim and Cold Sim are both addicting. Hotsim just a little more so.

In your example about getting addicted to the cold because you live up in Northern Alaska, What this would be to a Technomancer is actually AR. They don't get addicted to AR (usually. There was some qualities in the past that were AR addictions, like checking your face book status constantly) HSVR in this case would be jumping into an ice flow, and rather than dieing of hypothermia, you become Mr Freeze, where getting out of that ice flow is now too freeking hot.

Just who is giving the list of negative phrases synonyms with Technomancers? Players or NPCs?

The Cycle Runs something like, designers write Books which feed player impression, Impression feeds character creation and character reaction, long trends in character creation and reaction shape game perception or trends in play, which feed back to the game designers whom write more books.

As we are in the feed back step of this process, it's time to put the best foot forward, Drug use is far from a universal constant, there are those whom feels it's a risk worth taking and there are those whom do not. Addiction is a dangerous a problem for those whom are resonance or magic based, not to mention the professionalism issues they raise.

Also as was pointed out Drugs tend fall into the augmentation books, as memory serves

There are plenty of great things i'm sure we can agree on, and that could be discussed at length.

Technomancers need more rigging ability. Fourth edition went out of its way to establish rigger-technos as a specific thing, and while making it so they don't exist before submersion is... Already a hefty change, at least they still exist. They need some support however.

Just a small number of echoes that do a bit more than being a control rig would be good. I'd suggest you look into their deeper connection between them and machines. While a mundane rigger can command many at once and compensate for noise on the fly, a TM could be focused more on fusing with a single drone. Echoes that do things like increase the matrix-hardiness of whatever they're jumped into, or perhaps give bonuses to perception/electronic warfare due to being really in-tune with the sensors? Just a few abilities focused on a different kind of rigging than your mundane rigger-spider, but not powerful enough or flexible enough to make normal riggers seem second class. I think going for focusing on the "be the machine" concept and affecting one device while jumped in would be good.

I so dearly desire the old Mesh Reality echo to return. It was an interesting one that wasn't super powerful, but it was a perfect example of how TMs can go beyond what should be possible in Shadowrun. It had so much flavor and style to it, and I would be so disheartened if it doesn't show up at all in 5th... Begging you, please.

Everyone wants to see Streams and Paragons come back. I figure it may go without saying that they'd be in that book, but... For the sake of completion, it's worth spelling out. I don't think people are asking for anything beyond a translation of what was in 4th edition. They gave a significant amount of depth to the TM side of the matrix, which is a very very very important side...

I just... Please actually address and try to change what problems TMs have and give them some love. Please? Pretty please? After Data Trails being on the horizon since the game came out and then this crap just getting left out... I really don't have any belief this book will do even half of what it needs to do. So my cynical side just says "Whatever, it's not like the whole forum worth a feedback will ever get used to find out what the game needs."

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I'm Madpath Moth on reddit (and other sites).Firebug's VU93 ProfileJeeze. It would almost sound stupid until you realize we're talking about an immortal elf clown sword fighting a dragon ghost in a mall.