this again.... and from the same op.... i'm starting to belive you actually work for one of the "selling dupe method" companies. As ruksac is trying to tell you.... again... duping without using rollback, is a myth dude! D2 showed how fast duping could get out of hand.
I don't belive there is currently such a thing.

this again.... and from the same op.... i'm starting to belive you actually work for one of the "selling dupe method" companies. As ruksac is trying to tell you.... again... duping without using rollback, is a myth dude! D2 showed how fast duping could get out of hand.
I don't belive there is currently such a thing.

My take on the guy (and that is evident in his stating he made mad loot from the AH) is that he was paying for rent with the money he made from D3 and is angry that some folks are duping. It's more like taking food out of his mouth or taking a roof from over his head. He claims to be passionate about the game but in the end, I suspect.... It's more passionate about the income he discovered in D3 and he could actually care less about players.

The only way Blizzard will be able to stop it is if we the players help. They would have to remove the RMAH entirely and the players would need to not buy gold from online retailers. If these people couldn't make money doing it, there would be no point to them doing it and the problem would go away.

It has to have a profit for there to be a point. Therefor;
if Profit = Point then No Profit = No Point.

I did see what happened to the gem prices and I see what they are at now. From the looks of things, Blizzard quietly fixed the issues considering that the price for gems is back to normal. I will wait and see what Blizzard does as I suspect; they too will fix this issue as quietly as they did the gem crisis.

You are right on the fact that blizzard took action. Most of the Duped item you can see on diabloprogress are now linked to deleted account or empty account. So Blizzard took action, that's for sure. But the issue didn't disapeared im pretty sure...

In my opinion (and I could be wrong...) what happened to gem prize is the simple Supply/Demand effect. Alot of people where duping the ")$()/ out of gems. The result was excesive supply in the market, driving the price extremely low. Smart players (no no not me!) realised that the market hitted the bottom price and started buying ALOT of gems to make insane profit. That brang the price back up. The market is now stabilised meaning that supply can't "supply" all the smart buyer that will instantly buy a gem that is underpriced. As long as buyer are still buying them, the market will stay stabilized. The price will stay very close to the one needed to craft them (as long as the duping method stay controlled).

The only way Blizzard will be able to stop it is if we the players help. They would have to remove the RMAH entirely and the players would need to not buy gold from online retailers. If these people couldn't make money doing it, there would be no point to them doing it and the problem would go away.

It has to have a profit for there to be a point. Therefor;
if Profit = Point then No Profit = No Point.

Stop the Duping: Occupy Sanctuary!!!

roflol

Never played Diablo 2 did you?

If they took they RMAH out of the game, they would just all flood to d2jsp, ebay, etc.

It makes perfect sense to me why these dupes aren't so widespread that the AH is flooded with them. I think people are severely underestimating the intelligence of these dupers.

1) If you were duping BiS items and then selling them on the AH for 2b gold to cash out (which is far more profitable than selling on the RMAH for $250 currently), you would be a complete idiot to put more than 1 of these items on the AH at a time. 2b items that are actually worth their price are tracked and multiple copies of the same item on the AH/RMAH would discourage legit players from buying them (would you buy an item knowing it was a dupe?). In fact, to be safe you wouldn't put duped items consecutively on the AH because it might drum up attention.
2) 2b items do not insta-sell, in fact the more expensive the item the longer it takes to sell usually. People who have this kind of gold track the same items sometimes for days. Think about it, if you're literally dropping nearly $1000 on an item, you'd better make sure it's worth the price. If we estimate it takes ~3-4 days to sell one of these 2b items on the AH then 10 of these items existing on diabloprogress means the duped item in question has been on the market for over 1 month.
3) It's very difficult to differentiate the method of duping (whether it's rollback dupes or some actual in-game technique). You'd think we could keep track of a couple of these duped items and see if their quantity increase over time (which would be a tell-tale sign that it was some in-game technique) . Unfortunately the dupers know that we can keep track of the quantity of these items so it's unlikely for them to keep selling the same items (especially since people who actually have the gold to buy these items will be discouraged knowing it's a duped item). The most we can do at this point is to keep tracking items to see if more dupes pop up. If more duped items keep popping up and their quantity is 5+ we'll know it's unlikely that they're all from roll-back dupes.

You can bet the people who are duping already had a ton of gold to begin with (hence how they could acquire such good items to dupe) and know how the AH works at that level. Therefore they would take the proper precautions to minimalize their chances of being caught or their trail being followed.

The only way Blizzard will be able to stop it is if we the players help. They would have to remove the RMAH entirely and the players would need to not buy gold from online retailers. If these people couldn't make money doing it, there would be no point to them doing it and the problem would go away.

It has to have a profit for there to be a point. Therefor;
if Profit = Point then No Profit = No Point.

Stop the Duping: Occupy Sanctuary!!!

roflol

Never played Diablo 2 did you?

If they took they RMAH out of the game, they would just all flood to d2jsp, ebay, etc.

D2jsp yes..however ebay/blizzard work together to halt sale of items/accounts..d2 not so much but thats just because its fairly outdated at this point.

D2jsp still won't let you cash out FG or sell it (if you get caught both parties are banned so you'll lose it anyway) d2jsp is just another form of trading..not a money laundering service.

It makes perfect sense to me why these dupes aren't so widespread that the AH is flooded with them. I think people are severely underestimating the intelligence of these dupers.

1) If you were duping BiS items and then selling them on the AH for 2b gold to cash out (which is far more profitable than selling on the RMAH for $250 currently), you would be a complete idiot to put more than 1 of these items on the AH at a time. 2b items that are actually worth their price are tracked and multiple copies of the same item on the AH/RMAH would discourage legit players from buying them (would you buy an item knowing it was a dupe?). In fact, to be safe you wouldn't put duped items consecutively on the AH because it might drum up attention.
2) 2b items do not insta-sell, in fact the more expensive the item the longer it takes to sell usually. People who have this kind of gold track the same items sometimes for days. Think about it, if you're literally dropping nearly $1000 on an item, you'd better make sure it's worth the price. If we estimate it takes ~3-4 days to sell one of these 2b items on the AH then 10 of these items existing on diabloprogress means the duped item in question has been on the market for over 1 month.
3) It's very difficult to differentiate the method of duping (whether it's rollback dupes or some actual in-game technique). You'd think we could keep track of a couple of these duped items and see if their quantity increase over time (which would be a tell-tale sign that it was some in-game technique) . Unfortunately the dupers know that we can keep track of the quantity of these items so it's unlikely for them to keep selling the same items (especially since people who actually have the gold to buy these items will be discouraged knowing it's a duped item). The most we can do at this point is to keep tracking items to see if more dupes pop up. If more duped items keep popping up and their quantity is 5+ we'll know it's unlikely that they're all from roll-back dupes.

You can bet the people who are duping already had a ton of gold to begin with (hence how they could acquire such good items to dupe) and know how the AH works at that level. Therefore they would take the proper precautions to minimalize their chances of being caught or their trail being followed.

I'm pretty sure if someone know how to "dupe" items it won't change economy much. Because they aren't going, I guess, to sell million copy of IK helm, because they would reveal themselves and value of this item would go down very fast. More like duping 3-4 copys of BiS items and then sell them.

god forbid the economy to be run by dupers instead of botters lol. Oh no that's a conspiracy too...

You make it sounds like rollback duping is simple. You can be guaranteed that blizzard do everything they can to avoid it. In my opinion they should just stop the rollback service. If you get hacked and loose your char, tough luck. Protect your account better next time. But they have chosen to give their customers the service of rollback. And for as long they have that service, you cannot prevent rollback duping happens.

Stop concidering it, it is heading nowhere.

Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack

"A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever."Shigeru Miyamoto-nintendo boss

"I think it's hilarious because gamers won't be getting watered down anything.
This is flat out Diablo 3." -Anonymous discussing the console version

It makes perfect sense to me why these dupes aren't so widespread that the AH is flooded with them. I think people are severely underestimating the intelligence of these dupers.

Why wouldn't they then just dupe gems? They're back at 15+ million gold per gem and there is no way of knowing if a gem is a dupe or not (except maybe for Blizzard). Why dupe BiS items at all and only stick with the "safe" gem duping? A smart duper could regulate the price so that it would not suddenly plummet. If that doesn't make enough money, then I'd think duping "great but not BiS" items would be the second safest option because they don't raise as much attention as the BiS items.

All the evidence seems to be pointing at limited rollback dupes and Blizzard probably is now being more careful with their rollbacks (like checking if the character has a high amount of gems and/or high value items which might warrant additional checking to be done etc). Nothing seems to point at "rampant duping" as it was called in another thread.

Diablo 2 had around 20+ different sites for item selling for real money.. Thinking if the game didnt have a rmah, all the problems would be solved is just. Naive, clueless, stupid. You pick. Its almost frightning to read the majority of these comments, does stupidity really have no end : (

It makes perfect sense to me why these dupes aren't so widespread that the AH is flooded with them. I think people are severely underestimating the intelligence of these dupers.

Why wouldn't they then just dupe gems? They're back at 15+ million gold per gem and there is no way of knowing if a gem is a dupe or not (except maybe for Blizzard). Why dupe BiS items at all and only stick with the "safe" gem duping? A smart duper could regulate the price so that it would not suddenly plummet. If that doesn't make enough money, then I'd think duping "great but not BiS" items would be the second safest option because they don't raise as much attention as the BiS items.

All the evidence seems to be pointing at limited rollback dupes and Blizzard probably is now being more careful with their rollbacks (like checking if the character has a high amount of gems and/or high value items which might warrant additional checking to be done etc). Nothing seems to point at "rampant duping" as it was called in another thread.

Maybe because there is more chances for them to sell one item at 250$ rather than one hundred gems at 2.5$ (just an example of supply and demand stuff etc). You may consider this as it still fits the 'clever dupers' profile...

Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack

"A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever."Shigeru Miyamoto-nintendo boss

"I think it's hilarious because gamers won't be getting watered down anything.
This is flat out Diablo 3." -Anonymous discussing the console version

Diablo 2 had around 20+ different sites for item selling for real money.. Thinking if the game didnt have a rmah, all the problems would be solved is just. Naive, clueless, stupid. You pick. Its almost frightning to read the majority of these comments, does stupidity really have no end : (

it seems to me it is as naive, clueless and stupid as thinking drm/always online and in game ah would resolve the botters/dupers problems. Hope you get this.

Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack

"A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever."Shigeru Miyamoto-nintendo boss

"I think it's hilarious because gamers won't be getting watered down anything.
This is flat out Diablo 3." -Anonymous discussing the console version

Diablo 2 had around 20+ different sites for item selling for real money.. Thinking if the game didnt have a rmah, all the problems would be solved is just. Naive, clueless, stupid. You pick. Its almost frightning to read the majority of these comments, does stupidity really have no end : (

it seems to me it is as naive, clueless and stupid as thinking drm/always online and in game ah would resolve the botters/dupers problems. Hope you get this.

Botting and duping are two different things entirely. Botting is mimicing a user input which is actually rather straight forward to do.

Duping on the other hand required exploitation of the game engines client side (In D2), tricking the server into thinking the item was dropped when actually it remained in the inventory creating a copy of the item.

Edit: This was often done by creating a large amount of MS user side dropping the item and crashing the game, the communication would take so long to reach the server that when it finally did, it would acknowledge that the item had dropped and then try to update a player character, but because said player char is no longer connected to the server, the client information can't be updated. (This is a pre 1.09 dupe method). Meaning the client never got told the item had been taken from the inventory but the game is hosted on the server so it recognised an item had been dropped.

In D3 all this information is stored server side and anything such as you moving an item from your inventory to the ground is processed server side (your char is stored on their server) and that information is sent to the client to show you that it has happened.

In D2 this was something done client side which would be sent to the server and the server would acknowledge the action as legit and send comms back allowing the client to update the game accordingly. (hence why identifying duping in diablo 2 was such a mammoth problem server side).

Duping in D3 is impossible as it was in Diablo 2 simply because how the server and the client communicate. The only down sides of this is that the client can't do ANY work, because providing any of this information to the user means it can be exploited. This is why making Diablo 3 playable offline by Blizzards reasoning isn't possible.

Diablo 2 had around 20+ different sites for item selling for real money.. Thinking if the game didnt have a rmah, all the problems would be solved is just. Naive, clueless, stupid. You pick. Its almost frightning to read the majority of these comments, does stupidity really have no end : (

it seems to me it is as naive, clueless and stupid as thinking drm/always online and in game ah would resolve the botters/dupers problems. Hope you get this.

Botting and duping are two different things entirely. Botting is mimicing a user input which is actually rather straight forward to do.

Duping on the other hand required exploitation of the game engines client side (In D2), tricking the game into thinking the item was dropped when actually it remained in the inventory creating a copy of the item.

In D3 all this information is stored server side and anything such as you moving an item from your inventory to the ground is processed server side and that information is sent to the client to tell it that has happened.

In D2 this was something done client side which would be sent to the server and the server would acknowledge the action as legit and send comms back allowing the client to update the game accordingly. (hence why identifying duping in diablo 2 was such a mammoth problem server side).

Duping in D3 is impossible as it was in Diablo 2 simply because how the server and the client communicate. The only down sides of this is that the client can't do ANY work, because providing any of this information to the user means it can be exploited. This is why making Diablo 3 playable offline by Blizzards reasoning isn't possible.

a little serious please.

Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack

"A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever."Shigeru Miyamoto-nintendo boss

"I think it's hilarious because gamers won't be getting watered down anything.
This is flat out Diablo 3." -Anonymous discussing the console version

It makes perfect sense to me why these dupes aren't so widespread that the AH is flooded with them. I think people are severely underestimating the intelligence of these dupers.

1) If you were duping BiS items and then selling them on the AH for 2b gold to cash out (which is far more profitable than selling on the RMAH for $250 currently), you would be a complete idiot to put more than 1 of these items on the AH at a time. 2b items that are actually worth their price are tracked and multiple copies of the same item on the AH/RMAH would discourage legit players from buying them (would you buy an item knowing it was a dupe?). In fact, to be safe you wouldn't put duped items consecutively on the AH because it might drum up attention.
2) 2b items do not insta-sell, in fact the more expensive the item the longer it takes to sell usually. People who have this kind of gold track the same items sometimes for days. Think about it, if you're literally dropping nearly $1000 on an item, you'd better make sure it's worth the price. If we estimate it takes ~3-4 days to sell one of these 2b items on the AH then 10 of these items existing on diabloprogress means the duped item in question has been on the market for over 1 month.
3) It's very difficult to differentiate the method of duping (whether it's rollback dupes or some actual in-game technique). You'd think we could keep track of a couple of these duped items and see if their quantity increase over time (which would be a tell-tale sign that it was some in-game technique) . Unfortunately the dupers know that we can keep track of the quantity of these items so it's unlikely for them to keep selling the same items (especially since people who actually have the gold to buy these items will be discouraged knowing it's a duped item). The most we can do at this point is to keep tracking items to see if more dupes pop up. If more duped items keep popping up and their quantity is 5+ we'll know it's unlikely that they're all from roll-back dupes.

You can bet the people who are duping already had a ton of gold to begin with (hence how they could acquire such good items to dupe) and know how the AH works at that level. Therefore they would take the proper precautions to minimalize their chances of being caught or their trail being followed.

If people were duping in-game than what reason would they have to not flood the market? We know a process like this would leak like a sieve and we'd have many many people doing it. Anyone actively duping (as we saw in D2) isn't going to be operating as if they're afraid of getting caught. They're going to sell as much as they can with a designated account and then just get a new one if that one is banned.

The reason we're seeing such finite amounts is because people have acquired their dupes via a rollback and they only have a finite amount. Therefor, they're being far more judicious about how they unload them.

Therefore they would take the proper precautions to minimalize their chances of being caught or their trail being followed.

Why? Why would they bother unless they were rollback duping? They have essentially garnered a money machine at their whim, why would they bother to protect a $60 account? So what, it gets banned. They know how to dupe. One trip to best buy and 3 new accounts later the operation resumes.

People are minimizing their risks, or it would seem that way, for one of two reasons. They are rollback duping and they only have a finite amount. If they wish to rollback from one account to the other, repeating this process as accounts are closed and/or marked as not being eligible for further rollbacks, they need time to purchase new accounts. Their slow-pace sales and the customer service avenue of rolling an account back would dictate expectations for a much slower stream of dupes hitting the market, as we've seen so far.

A game in which the entire economy was essentially phony and used a 98% duped item as it's currency (HR's).

Dude, as fun as it may be for conspiracy theorists to pander to this idea that online only is a greedy marketing scheme......if this game wasn't online only, the economy would be in a state of shambles already. Shit, it woulda been wrecked the first week.

Diablo 2 had around 20+ different sites for item selling for real money.. Thinking if the game didnt have a rmah, all the problems would be solved is just. Naive, clueless, stupid. You pick. Its almost frightning to read the majority of these comments, does stupidity really have no end : (

it seems to me it is as naive, clueless and stupid as thinking drm/always online and in game ah would resolve the botters/dupers problems. Hope you get this.

Botting and duping are two different things entirely. Botting is mimicing a user input which is actually rather straight forward to do.

Duping on the other hand required exploitation of the game engines client side (In D2), tricking the game into thinking the item was dropped when actually it remained in the inventory creating a copy of the item.

In D3 all this information is stored server side and anything such as you moving an item from your inventory to the ground is processed server side and that information is sent to the client to tell it that has happened.

In D2 this was something done client side which would be sent to the server and the server would acknowledge the action as legit and send comms back allowing the client to update the game accordingly. (hence why identifying duping in diablo 2 was such a mammoth problem server side).

Duping in D3 is impossible as it was in Diablo 2 simply because how the server and the client communicate. The only down sides of this is that the client can't do ANY work, because providing any of this information to the user means it can be exploited. This is why making Diablo 3 playable offline by Blizzards reasoning isn't possible.

a little serious please.

He said "as it was in D2"

I won't go so far as to claim that perhaps a method will never be discovered, whether by accident or otherwise, to dupe items.

Because the game is server side, it'll be stomped the fuck out in a junkyard minute.

Diablo 2 had around 20+ different sites for item selling for real money.. Thinking if the game didnt have a rmah, all the problems would be solved is just. Naive, clueless, stupid. You pick. Its almost frightning to read the majority of these comments, does stupidity really have no end : (

it seems to me it is as naive, clueless and stupid as thinking drm/always online and in game ah would resolve the botters/dupers problems. Hope you get this.

Botting and duping are two different things entirely. Botting is mimicing a user input which is actually rather straight forward to do.

Duping on the other hand required exploitation of the game engines client side (In D2), tricking the game into thinking the item was dropped when actually it remained in the inventory creating a copy of the item.

In D3 all this information is stored server side and anything such as you moving an item from your inventory to the ground is processed server side and that information is sent to the client to tell it that has happened.

In D2 this was something done client side which would be sent to the server and the server would acknowledge the action as legit and send comms back allowing the client to update the game accordingly. (hence why identifying duping in diablo 2 was such a mammoth problem server side).

Duping in D3 is impossible as it was in Diablo 2 simply because how the server and the client communicate. The only down sides of this is that the client can't do ANY work, because providing any of this information to the user means it can be exploited. This is why making Diablo 3 playable offline by Blizzards reasoning isn't possible.

a little serious please.

He said "as it was in D2"

I won't go so far as to claim that perhaps a method will never be discovered, whether by accident or otherwise, to dupe items.

Because the game is server side, it'll be stomped the fuck out in a junkyard minute.

Defiantly. I think Voix is correct tho; Unless battle.net itself is actually hacked, changing item codes to dupe won't happen. We've all seen 'lag' dupes, where pretty much the server itself fucks up, and while this type of exploit might be repeatable as soon as it's fixed correctly, duping won't exist.