If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Re: Is Paul George becoming a star?

There will definitely be some players getting snubbed. I think Paul's been the 5th best wing (SG/SF) this year, but with the change in the ballot I'm not sure how that affects him. Here's a list of guys I think deserve to make it. They can't all make it though...

After looking at that, I think Paul has a better chance to make it than West. They'll have to take at least 1 from the Pacers if we're top 5-6, and there's more bigs that deserve to make the team than wings. Both probably deserve it, but I don't see anyway we send 2.

Who would you guys send at PG? They usually send 3, although last year they sent 4 after Rondo took Joe Johnson's spot due to injury. IMO, as of now D. Williams should be the one left out.

Re: Is Paul George becoming a star?

I don't understand that, can anybody show me a power forward in the East better than David West?

Technically Melo has been playing at the PF position all yr. plus they don't do it by position, it's just wings and bigs this year I do believe. Between Noah, Verajao, Lopez, Josh Smith, Chandler, Bosh..it'll be hard for West to make it.

Then with Bron, Melo, Rondo, Irving, Wade, Williams (non deserving), Deng, Holiday, and even Evam Turner (putting up very similar numbers to PG) it'll be difficult for PG to make it. I don't think every team within the top 5 HAS to have a rep. It'd be nice to be in the top 5 lol and it'd be nicer to have an AS rep

Edit: didnt mention the usual suspects of KG, Pierce, Joe Johnson of players who get In bc of their names recognition.

Re: Is Paul George becoming a star?

Technically Melo has been playing at the PF position all yr. plus they don't do it by position, it's just wings and bigs this year I do believe. Between Noah, Verajao, Lopez, Josh Smith, Chandler, Bosh..it'll be hard for West to make it.

Then with Bron, Melo, Rondo, Irving, Wade, Williams (non deserving), Deng, Holiday, and even Evam Turner (putting up very similar numbers to PG) it'll be difficult for PG to make it. I don't think every team within the top 5 HAS to have a rep. It'd be nice to be in the top 5 lol and it'd be nicer to have an AS rep

Edit: didnt mention the usual suspects of KG, Pierce, Joe Johnson of players who get In bc of their names recognition.

You're mostly right, but the grouping is split up into guards and frontcourt. So for voting purposes Paul George is a SG and grouped in with the other SGs and PGs.

But with the Pacers we're never gonna get one voted in. I don't know how many votes our most-voted for Pacer is, but at the returns of the first ballots Andrew Bynum has at least twice as many as any Pacer without playing a single minute.

I have a feeling that with voting now the coachs are just gonna go best player unless there's an obvious lack one 1 position. So you assume our starting unit will be LeBron, Melo, Garnett/Bosh, Wade, and Rondo. After them, there's still a lot of competition. If we have a top 3 east record, I think they'll be obligated to give us a spot. Otherwise, I doubt we get an allstar in.

The Following User Says Thank You to aamcguy For This Useful Post:

Re: Is Paul George becoming a star?

I have a feeling that the coaches will be a little more traditional, than just a backcourt/frontcourt split. Which I think bodes well for multiple Pacers especially if Hibbert continues to improve on the offensive end. Yes, I still think Hibbert has a chance with the coaches if he is able to play well offensively in January, that is just how good Hibbert has been on defense, although he is obviously on the outside looking in at the moment. At this point I think the back-up SG spot is Paul's to lose. If he keeps up his current level of play he is a lock. I would say West probably has the toughest road of all three of them, but so far has lived up to the challenge. Although with Paul's emergence it is going to make it difficult for West to really stand out as he has to this point.

Re: Is Paul George becoming a star?

Obviously no Pacer is getting voted in this year and that was never on the table for discussion.

But coaches will put a guy on the team if he's been a big pain in their a**. These guys know who they hate to deal with and who is doing special things. Up till now it's been West, and after a mini-slump he put together another great half of shooting to get back on track (I hope). But over the last few weeks Paul has been outplaying West's best games this year.

If these 2 both keep it up then that probably means the Pacers will be winning games, and that in turn will mean recognition. The question is going to be how good do they each have to be for the next few weeks and just how many games do the Pacers need to be above 500 to get 1 or 2 guys in.

I think this could be the end of KG's run. There's always a year where a guy doesn't make the AS team anymore.

Looking at the top PPG guys in the East:
Melo
James
Pierce
Wade
Bosh

That's the starting 5. The other guys ahead of Paul (and West for most) that to me are getting into less certain territory:

More likely
Josh Smith (should make it easily)
Jrue (team W-L hurts a lot but not enough)

Less likely
Ellis (if MIL stays above 500 he has a shot, but FG% hurts a lot)
Deng (comparison to Paul hurts a ton, Noah seems a more likely rep)
Joe Johnson (team not good enough, could be lone rep though)
Deron (rep helps a ton, but W-L hurts chances for multi-reps, and his FG% is puke)

Very unlikely
B Lopez (size helps, but team isn't good enough for multi-reps, Joe and DWill have rep)
Afflalo (gaining a rep but ORL is bad and he's not good enough to overcome that)
Kemba (team is awful)
DeRozen (team is awful)
Jennings (Ellis goes before him if MIL gets 1 due to rep, though Ellis shooting is bad)

So of the top 18 scorers (which ends at Paul's rank, currently) there could be a good case for both West and Paul.

From rebounders Paul ends the top 20, West is at 13. You can bring in Varejao, Noah, Chandler and Horford into the discussion.
Varejao has a bad team, but he's been so good and is at a thin spot (technically since there is no "C" this year) that he has a decent shot.
Noah goes instead of Deng.
Chandler and Horford are only hurt by having other reps and whether the team deserves more. Horford has a better shot to me.

Since Paul and West are both in this list also, along with Lebron, Josh Smith and Bosh, I think it helps them quite a bit.

Obviously assists will hurt them but to me the only new guy it brings into the mix is Rondo. This is what puts Jrue on the team for sure, but Rondo might be on a team at or below 500 by that point and will clearly already have Pierce on the roster.

That's 20. Indy is a borderline 2 player team. MIL, CHI, BRK and BOS are worse than Indy, so more than 1 there is also questionable. If you cut them all back to 1 and drop Afflalo and Varejao then you are at 13. I think MIL is at risk of having no reps with Rondo going on instead. Then you have Horford and Chandler as "at risk" players to me. I don't think a 3rd or 4th seed Pacers would go without a rep at all and I think West would go over Horford at this point if that's where the decision ends up.

After all that scattered (sorry) brainstorming it's still really close. Looking at it even more only solidifies to me how it can range from none to both based on how things play out the next few weeks. I could honestly see West and Paul playing their way onto the team. If they have numbers and have been key in a series of wins that has the Pacers pushing past Atlanta, then I think they will get 2 reps.

Re: Is Paul George becoming a star?

I'm telling you, if there was ever a "blessing in disguise" injury, it was Granger's this year. PG has been forced to be the man on the wing and get out of his comfort zone of deferring to Granger. I said it in another thread, and I'll say it again: When Granger comes back, this team is going to be a very tough out in the playoffs.

Re: Is Paul George becoming a star?

To give those numbers some scope:

At 20.7 ppg Paul would be the #8 scorer in the NBA.

Of players averaging 20+ppg (there are 10 players averaging 20 or more):
2 average more rebounds than PG. 6 average more apg. 4 shoot the 3 better. 7 have a better shooting % than Paul. 1 averages more blocks. 2 average more steals.

Now obviously this is a 15 game sample for PG while the entire season for the other 10 (which is 25-30 games). So keep that in mind. But regardless, this 15 game period has been featured some really incredible basketball from PG.

Lets say West gets a 3/$30M, Granger 3/$40M, that gets you up to basically $70M, and you need a backup 1, 4, 2. There's no way, right? Unless you get Granger at a big discount? Like, sub $10M/per, I would think.

Lets say West gets a 3/$30M, Granger 3/$40M, that gets you up to basically $70M, and you need a backup 1, 4, 2. There's no way, right? Unless you get Granger at a big discount? Like, sub $10M/per, I would think.

Man. At times I really hate the business aspect of this game.

At the same time, as a fan when you think about how difficult it's going to be it makes you happy you can decide to just be okay with whatever decision the FO makes and be glad you don't have to make such a public, important decision.

There is the possibility we do something like ink West to a longer deal for a lower per year rate and work w/ the front load/back loading of both to give us cap space as George/Hibberts' salaries increase. And there's always the chance Granger doesn't come back as well as we hope from his injury and only merits a 6-8 million a year deal when he re-ups. There's a lot of ifs and that's before you even consider that we might get offered a deal we can't pass up . And Stephenson. Too much to speculate on w/out overthinking I think haha

Re: Is Paul George becoming a star?

There is some finagling possible. Definitely with the West and Granger deals.

More importantly, we'll probably let Paul hit RFA, which means the Green contract expires when we want to re-sign him. And, his deal will have raises, which means that it will be on the low end while the Granger and West deals are at their highest.

Really, you're looking at the following for '14/'15:

George - $4.5MHibbert - $15MHill - $8M Mahinmi - $4MGreen - $3.5M

and then, for '15/'16:

George - $14(ish)MHibbert - $15MHill - $8M Mahinmi - $4M

Our salary situation is actually not that bad, if we keep together our core. More important question will arise, however, about Lance and Ian and the types of deals we want to give them.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/indiana.htm

We won't have George for 4.5M in 2014. If that happens, that means he's playing on his RFA tender and we've ****** him off so much that he's opted to wait a year in order to hit unrestricted FA. So you're right on the numbers but off on the timing.

Re: Is Paul George becoming a star?

We won't have George for 4.5M in 2014. If that happens, that means he's playing on his RFA tender and we've ****** him off so much that he's opted to wait a year in order to hit unrestricted FA. So you're right on the numbers but off on the timing.

Good catch. Read the column incorrectly--didn't think they would have the tender (it's late). The points remain: 1.) low-end of a series of raises in '14/'15 and 2.) bigger questions will be about what to do with Lance/Ian.

Re: Is Paul George becoming a star?

Paul George is 11 points away from being the Pacers leading scorer. So here in a few short games, his resume will say, "Pacers leading scorer." That certainly helps his All-star game bid.

I'm really starting to think it is going to happen. He is a fantastic defender. The rest of the NBA has noted this. They know what he's doing on that side of the court. He's at 16.9 points per game but that'll continue to rise. He's been throwing up 20 a game.

His numbers to start out weren't that efficient but they continue to improve. His TS% is now at 54% on the season. It should be better, but it is better than guys like Rudy Gay, Joe Johnson, Luol Deng, and Josh Smith (for perspective).

Find me on the internets @mattiecolin

Read it and weep:

When George Hill is above 15% usage we won 73.5% of games. Below 15% usage we won 61.9%

Re: Is Paul George becoming a star?

Paul George is 11 points away from being the Pacers leading scorer. So here in a few short games, his resume will say, "Pacers leading scorer." That certainly helps his All-star game bid.

I'm really starting to think it is going to happen. He is a fantastic defender. The rest of the NBA has noted this. They know what he's doing on that side of the court. He's at 16.9 points per game but that'll continue to rise. He's been throwing up 20 a game.

His numbers to start out weren't that efficient but they continue to improve. His TS% is now at 54% on the season. It should be better, but it is better than guys like Rudy Gay, Joe Johnson, Luol Deng, and Josh Smith (for perspective).

And to think that at the beginning of the year I was angry that people were expecting too much of him. I was so sure he was going to be an above average scorer and super utility player for his career.

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to aamcguy For This Useful Post:

Re: Is Paul George becoming a star?

George really has a chance to be a special, special player.

I'm talking top 10-15 player in the NBA.

He's certainly played like an Easy all-star for over a month now. I don't doubt he'll be our leading scorer before long. The next step is George learning to get to the line like he did last night, he has great body control and has been getting into the lane with ease, now he needs to start getting free throws and he'll be a shoe in for 20+ most nights.

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to daschysta For This Useful Post:

Re: Is Paul George becoming a star?

Just for those still interested in the McGrady- George comparison over their first few years in the league I thought I'd give an update

Tracy McGrady 3rd season, Per 36

17.7 ppg
7.3 rpg
3.8 apg
1.3 spg
2.2 bpg

.509 TS%
24.9% USG

George

16.7 ppg
7.8 rpg
3.6 apg
1.6 spg
.7 bpg

.520 TS%
USG% 23.8

Awfully similar numbers on the surface, Paul being a better rebounder and stealer, McGrady having a slight volume scoring advantage (though less efficiently) and being a much better shotblocker.

The big difference between the two is that McGrady got the line alot more, (5.7 his 3rd and 6.8 his 4th per 36) whereas Paul gets to the line just 2.8 times per game.

If Paul learns to draw fouls more effectively, and making the All-Star game will help with that, then I don't think him scoring in the mid 20's is as out of the realm of probability as I used to think, since he's broken out (and i'm confident in saying that it isn't a fluke after 22 games)

He's averaged

19.6 ppg
8.8 rpg
3.9 apg
2 spg

despite not really getting the benefit of the doubt on calls most nights. He gets his free throw attempts up to about 5-6+ per night, like I believe he can with some love from the refs and continued focus on attacking the basket and I won't be suprised to see him averaging well into the 20's in a year or two. Perhaps even over the last few months of the season if Danny is back and takes some focus off of Paul defensively, conflated with his inclusion in the All-Star game and resulting ref-love that most perimeter stars get.

I really believe that Paul is going to be special, and one of the best Pacers ever, I wouldn't be suprised to see 23-25 ppg 8.5-10 rpg 4-5 apg 1.5+ spg from Paul in his prime. He's laying a great foundation this season, and it's getting to the point where he's dropping 18-10 games without my even particularly thinking he's played spectacularly. He is becoming a star, he's something special.