Comments for wakingembersfallinghttps://wakingembersfalling.wordpress.com
Cultural Sickness Sun, 30 Mar 2014 04:11:49 +0000hourly1http://wordpress.com/Comment on Addressing The Women’s Wisdom Circle Pyramid by Scott Malishttps://wakingembersfalling.wordpress.com/2013/07/15/2/comment-page-1/#comment-111
Sun, 30 Mar 2014 04:11:49 +0000http://wakingembersfalling.wordpress.com/?p=2#comment-111Aloha Danielle,
Again I am very supportive of women and equality on not just voting and decisions, but financially as well. I truly believe in equal work and equal pay. I do also believe that two wrongs don’t make a right. Just because our stupid and outdated system makes people work pay check to pay check and gives most of the wealth to the top 1% does not mean your gifting program is ethical or beneficial. In fact it is straight out of the same consciousness as our current system with a lovie-dovie feel good twist.
Your logic to me is false that marriage is 50/50 so why not a gifting circle. If you read all the post we all, using math figured out there is a 13% of winning and a 87% chance of losing. Also your winning in a gifting circle will equal 8 times the losers later. if someone gets a divorce that does not ruin 8 other couples marriages later.
Again as I have said before I am totally ok with charity of course. In fact today I just gave money to the efforts to help the people and first responders to help the people who got buried in the WA state Oso landslide. Charity is wonderful…and I expect nothing in return for giving to this crisis, it just feels right and I have something to give, I don’t expect to get my $250 back, let alone get $2000 back (8×250)!!!
Personally I don’t have much more to say…it’s all in this thread of comments…I don’t want to rehash things again…

But I will end with 2 things…

1. many of these circles have imploded already and there are lots of losers…don’t kid yourself…

2. this article from the Hartford, CT newspaper a few months back…this could be you…Danielle and all the women who think this ok what you are doing, please consider this, I know you have a good heart, and I would hate to see the system jail you for this…but $40000 is a major fraud felony case. There are real losers and the to the winners should be a warning of the loser may not be so kind later when the gig is up and they turn you in.

HARTFORD — A pair of Shoreline women received multi-year jail sentences Tuesday for their leadership roles in the Women’s Gifting Table pyramid scheme after making tearful apologies in court for inflicting harm on others.

Judge Alvin W. Thompson imposed a six-year sentence on Donna Bello, who started the pyramid scheme in Connecticut, and a 4.5-year prison term on Jill Platt, with each also receiving three years of supervised release at the end of their terms.

The women, both of Guilford, will surrender into custody Oct. 15 and pay restitution totaling $32,000 to five women who lost money in the tables. Bello must also pay a $15,000 fine.

Bettejane Hopkins, the third woman arrested in May 2012 in connection with the scheme, is set to be sentenced today and pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy to defraud the IRS in December.

Attorneys for Bello and Platt said they plan to file appeals. While Jonathan J. Einhorn, who represents Platt, had no comment after the sentence. He contended during court that Platt was a victim similar to other table participants.

Norm Pattis, who represents Bello, called the result “an outrage.”

“They’ve put gifting table participants in prison for 4.5 to six years. When was the last time you saw the government pursuing predatory bankers?” Pattis said after court.

But Assistant U.S. Attorney Douglas P. Morabito said a jail sentence was important not only because Bello and Platt misled participants and targeted women “in dire financial straits,” but also because it may serve as a deterrent to women still operating tables in Southington.

“It’s a crime, and it went on for several years, and is one that wreaked havoc on the Shoreline community,” said Morabito, who scoffed at Einhorn’s assertion that Platt was a victim.

Sentences for Bello and Platt stem from a 17-day trial this winter in which a jury convicted them of wire fraud, conspiracy to commit wire fraud, conspiracy to defraud the IRS and filing false tax returns.

They initially faced up to 14 years in jail.

Women joined the gifting tables by paying what they were told was a tax-free “gift” of $5,000 to a high-ranking member and then recruited other women. As more joined, members climbed the table’s four levels before reaching the highest status and receiving $5,000 from eight women. Once they received $40,000, they left the table or rejoined.

The government said someone is always left on the bottom and that there aren’t enough people to keep the structure going.

Many women testified they used child support checks, retirement money, credit card advances and money for bills to pay the $5,000 to join a table and never made back the money. One woman ended up enduring foreclosure proceedings after being involved in tables.

Thompson said that while the government estimated Platt caused a fraud loss of $1.4 million, he reduced the calculation to $882,500 based on what transactions could be proven. As for Bello, the government had estimated a fraud loss of $1.5 million, while Thompson brought it down to $1.3 million.

Both women, who never addressed the court before, said they never intended to hurt anyone, although Platt admitted she joined a table to make money for $2,300 monthly insurance payments. Her painting business was hurt by the economy, which made it difficult to continue paying for insurance and medicine for her husband, she said. She joined a table after Bello brought the idea to the state and many others had joined.

Others eventually considered Platt the “second-most knowledgeable” about the tables, according to Thompson, and she assisted in recruiting and training others, while also advising them on how to avoid sending up “red flags” to the IRS.

“My intent was to help others who were in similar situations, who needed more money to survive, quite frankly,” Platt said, later adding that a friend who recruited her told her tables were legal.

With a son and other families in the courtroom, an emotional Platt added, “I wish to apologize now for all the time, resources and effort of federal people and to my poor family who already suffered so much, and to have to put them through this is more than any mother would want to do to her children.”

Her family had previously dealt with deaths and illnesses of family members.

Bello said she had seen the tables as a “safe environment” where women supported each other and helped others in the community, but that she “kidded” herself and “deceived others.”

“I still struggle daily with how something I thought could be so good turned out to be something disastrous for my family and those who participated in gifting tables with me,” she said, adding that she is “heartily sorry” and has learned from the experience.

She said she is worried about leaving behind her husband, once-prominent New Haven businessman Joel Schiavone, along with her children and grandchildren, while she is incarcerated.

“I am deeply anguished by the pain and anxiety experienced by the women of the gifting tables. They were good souls, loving companions and didn’t deserve what happened to them,” Bello said, at times struggling to get the words out as Pattis stood by her at the courtroom podium.

She plans to sell her home to pay for restitution, back taxes and the $15,000 fine.

Though both defendants were visibly upset Tuesday about their roles, Morabito said they joked about possibly going to prison while still participating in tables.

Bello, Platt and other high-level participants were heard during trial on a secret recording talking about potential legal consequences.

Morabito pointed out a part in the transcript where Platt says they would get “free meals and a cot. Maybe we can all get the same (prison)wing.”

He said the women “made light” of the situation while knowing there was an attorney general investigation.

Still, Pattis and Einhorn attempted to argue for short or no sentences. Einhorn said Platt believed the tables were a legitimate enterprise when she first started, but acknowledged she eventually should have known something was amiss.

“There’s no question the time came when Jill Platt should have known better, that there’s no free lunch,” Einhorn noted.

Both attorneys attempted to use each other’s clients to help their own. Einhorn went on to say there’s “a world of difference” between Platt and Bello, since Bello started the tables in Connecticut, and Platt joined later after a friend told her they were legal and reviewed by an attorney.

Later, Pattis said Bello showed more remorse than Platt and that he would “not have been happy” if he were Platt’s lawyer.

But Thompson noted that many women lost money as a result of Bello and Platt’s actions and read emails written by Bello and Platt that showed they focused on monetary aspects of the tables and ways to stay out of jail.

“This is not the crime of the century,” Thompson said. “But I think for people who are victims, it’s probably the crime of their lifetimes.”

I appreciate how well written and thought though this article is, but I am disappointed you did not mention many other aspects that go into this equation besides negatively slanted ones. Your article is one sided and very tainted with emotionalized opinion. The truth is, people are creating this and people are signing up because there is a need, both emotional and financial to do something different with our money and energy. Women from all walks of life are saying yes to this and it isn’t always because people lied to them or manipulated them.

I do believe this is likely an unsustainable model and no one should gain if anyone else is going to loose. It is unethical. However, greed is not motivating everyone and many, many women do actually gain a deeper community from this. Discernment and transparency is key. I know lots of women who are completely transparent about the risks and rewards of this process. Is it greedy to want to help a woman with 5,000 in hopes that one day you will be helped? How do people get out of a cycle of living paycheck to paycheck? Is this model more greedy than the stock market, giving money to banks, etc.?

I don’t think so, at the very minimum, each woman who joins gets to help one woman get ahead with there $5,000. What is the harm in helping one woman? Could it be possible that consciousness created this system because there is a need for it? Could this model be a stepping stone for a more sustainable one in which no one looses? It is possible and if humanity awakens to a point in which we consider everyone, then it will likely arise. For now, this is what we have.

If this continues, many women may loose, but giving money to one woman and having a transformational experience, whether gain or loss happens is still beneficial. Giving money to help a regular woman in this process is ultimately the same risk as getting married (50% failure rate), having children (#1 cause of bankruptcy), etc. yet people still get married and have children. When a relationship fails are there people who wished they never got married in the first place? Sure. Is there heartache and some severed relationships? Sure. Yet, with a different perspective, there is gain for how could the person have gained so much awareness and learning without that particular relationship? The conscious ones, the wise ones, find gain in every loss. Equally, there is loss in every gain.

I believe there are equal numbers of people who are grateful for all they learned in the process even if the outcome was not what they hoped for initially. Should we ask people not to get married simply because 50% will fail?

In life we take many risks. Is this the best one? This is for each individual to decide. If you can think of a sustainable model in which people can generally get ahead in this society, I am all ears, but you did not write about it.

You should interview the many women who have had positive experiences and write about that.

Many Blessings,
Danielle

]]>Comment on Addressing The Women’s Wisdom Circle Pyramid by Juliehttps://wakingembersfalling.wordpress.com/2013/07/15/2/comment-page-1/#comment-109
Wed, 26 Feb 2014 01:27:24 +0000http://wakingembersfalling.wordpress.com/?p=2#comment-109I am embarrassed to say that although I am highly educated and as I thought smart, I was entrapped to the seductive lure behind this culture about a year ago when my very successful artist neighbor asked me to be part of something that could in fact allow me to spend more time with my art, enrich my personal reflective journey, have more time to do things that matter. While attending grad school and working full time I was very burnt out and ready for a break, she got me at the perfect moment one day and I immediately said yes without going and searching on the internet for something like this.. not until later. I fortunately did not gift any money, she backed me. Why did I do this??? Because she not only was convincing that this was legal and although people have taken advantage of many things there have been times where this circle was abused as well. I had no idea. She also stated that it was working for her very close friend and that her friend had almost paid off her student loans and I could do that as well. It was wonderful at first until her and the first dessert exited all within 6 weeks of joining. I though wow this is moving very fast and very much working. I then was asked to join a second circle, in which I said yes too but had to maneuveur my gifting because I invited a very close childhood friend that I was going to “back” thinking that this is working and worth it. But it worked out magically where I backed her half and another lady backed me another half in the second circle. The “gift” is $5,000, however I split my gift in two circles, $2,500 in the first circle to back my friend and $2,500 in the new second circle while at the same time someone backed my friend the second $2,500 and the person who invited me to the 2nd circle backed the second half. But then that is when things started getting super fishy. The woman who initially invited me was also Dessert of the 2nd circle. I was very hesitant to go into the circle because the invitation process is brutal. Who has $5,000, I was told however that the 2nd circle was a “mature” circle and to join must have a full gift. Therefore, as the logic goes, the circle I join will move faster. The Dessert said she would help me with the invitation process of which I looked at as helping me find someone to join circle. Implied belief I had. In fact she had no intentions of helping me in which her and a group of her friends were whipping circles quick and leaving fall out for later. These “Yoga” “Spiritualists” “Women of Integrity” were in fact just very good manipulators knowing that they were making a lot of money off of people like myself and others. Those are my thoughts. So while this Dessert was off to Mexico to join a wedding from one of the women that paid for her wedding through circle and her student loans, she left behind the circle to close again. The 2nd circle was moving rapidly and ready to split just after I joined. I got out. I felt this was not right and asked for my money back immediately. There were insults from her such as “how selfish and self-centered” of you to pull out of circle just as these women were ready for it to split. Crazy things were said like that. Funny thing my car battery died that week and my other car had issues too, I did not have the money and quite frankly it scared me if anything else went wrong.. this was my emergency money while going to school. But she did not care. She was ready to grab the money and end this circle so she could move on to the next, is how I feel. The woman start out as very nice and friendly and loving to get what they want then when they dont get what they want.. watch out.

The first circle I joined then started to fall apart. My childhood friend left not without being very traumatized by circles culture. They never returned the other half of the $2,500 that backed her. What was to happen was that another woman was to come in and take her place and gift her the money. What happened is that Dessert was gifted and that $2,500 was forgotten about. I am in the midst of retrieving it. Any advice would be appreciated.

]]>Comment on Addressing The Women’s Wisdom Circle Pyramid by Yeshe Tsogyalhttps://wakingembersfalling.wordpress.com/2013/07/15/2/comment-page-1/#comment-108
Mon, 24 Feb 2014 10:45:05 +0000http://wakingembersfalling.wordpress.com/?p=2#comment-108I appreciate the article and every comment here! I would like to support the vision to take what is good from this culture and transform it somehow into a sustainable way for women and men both whom have little skills to thrive in this world and support themselves and their children in a way that does NO harm and is out of the shadows, full transparency in the Light! I personally have been involved and departed various circles. It took me awhile to see and integrate all. I am only seeing the math now thanks to you all whom are breaking the big picture down.

I departed women’s wisdom ($5000 circle) very quickly. I was sponsored in as if it were a precious opportunity when really the whole sponsorship/ backing idea is rooted in GREED as the one backing you receives half of all your gifts! (Took some time for me to integrate such). I hated the protocol and the requirement to bring 2 other woman on before moving up. It felt very masculine. Most of my relations are mamas without money so this was not even a feasibility for me even if for a moment I tried. Just imagining being in dessert and having to read other woman all the protocol did not resonate with me at all. There was invite training, and three way calls for potential invites, weekly required group teleconference sharing, and required checking in with the dessert. NO NO NO thank you. The women were great and I remain grateful for our connection but the container felt repulsive to the Divine Feminine within.

Around the same time I was leaving this $5000 circle I was approached with the opportunity to be backed in Vision Sisters from a high vibe sister I know. The gift $1440. (half of which would go to high vibe sis when I went into receiving). This circle felt different. Fluid. Feminine. Collective. A simple one page invite to share. NO bullshit protocol or focus upon whom to invite or not to invite, NO focus on secrecy or invite training or any stifling protocol. NO requirement for bringing other women on. One could move up and receive without bringing anyone on essentially. We all invited collectively. There were no weekly requirements for phone teleconferences. There was only an optional call at “birthing”. Communication and unification of the group was primarily via text. Everything I hated about the other circle did not exist in this one. I jumped in with a grateful YES.

In a four day whirlwind of seeming magic I reached the space next to receiving. I brought on three or four women (all were thankfully backed; none gifted any $). I took a strong leadership role when the receiver (a very sweet and sincere woman) was less then present due to over saturation on multiple $5000 circles. Much magic and synchronicity and healing arose from our collective connection. I say this sincerely with full clarity in the inherent flaws in the system which dissuade me from further participation now.

I withdrew eventually for two reasons. First, I saw the root greed and stagnancy created by backing women in. Most women backed in (meaning they came in with $0 gifted) did not participate (share, inspire, bare their souls) very much, creating a stagnancy. Just seeing that the majority of women are backed into these circles was an AHA moment in itself. Second, I was not in alignment with the idea of backing a woman to “help” her only to receive half of each one of her gifts if and when she ever made it into receiving position. This to me is a covertly deceptive maneuver that took a moment for me to see.

I put a lot of time and heart, love, energy, and hope into this circle the fruits of which were beyond $. I never did receive any $ and left before coming into receiving and am very grateful for this now. I came to the conclusion that despite $1440 feeling so much more comfortable to me then $5000 it is way too much money for me to ask of someone and hence receive. Too big of a risk for me personally. Put another way, if I had that much cash I would not give it to a circle. It was intimated by some that these were blocks to my abundance and that the number does not matter which in a sense is correct and true. But for me, personally, anything above a couple hundred bucks is not something I am willing to spend on anyone but my child, real community, or personal survival needs.

After being in vision sisters some months, I was approached to join yet another new collective, fluid, feminine circle called Medicine Wheel where the gift is $500 and no backing allowed. Progress!! (and one of the many modifications one of the comments above spoke of although still not effecting the numbers). Essentially, a woman could be “backed” in but would not be required to give half of all her gifts. She simply would be required to delay the giving of her one $500 gift until she was in receiving and this was called sponsorship (different then sponsorship in women’s wisdom where one is required to bring on 2 others before moving up a tier). I entered the circle and after two weeks I was in receiving. Then it began to slow down. I held the space and shared my spiritual gifts and vulnerabilities and humanness and stories and weaknesses and had fun with it all primarily via group text.

I received my first ever gift on a full moon. I had a awful horrible confrontation/ fight/ trauma with a very male old paradigm authority figure that day that left me crying and wrapped in a ball in deep anguish and pain. This ignited me to have a “breakthrough” as they say in circle, the details of which are personal but which ignited a huge Wave of movement in and outside of circles for me. That very same night I was offered my first gift. I really needed the money for food to feed my child and when it came I was indeed grateful and uplifted. I received one more gift after that before passing the circle onward in yet another realization that even $500 was too much to ask and that there existed flaws that were contraindicative of gifting, such as expecting a refund if one decided to leave before cycling through.

The whole premise of the gifting culture is that a gift is a gift and given without expectation of return. Expecting a refund upon leaving a circle reveals that one was only interested in investment and didn’t give a shit about the personal transformation work and collective space held and potential therein to raise the vibration and uplift each other and the planet. The way I saw it, the larger monied circles of $5000, $1440, even $500 were such a risk for people that the principle of giving sincerely without expectation of return was compromised, as revealed in the unspoken protocol to return a woman’s gift (with the next gift if there *is* a next gift) if she chose to leave a circle. I saw this created stagnancy and went against the gifting principles at the root of these spaces and distracted from the potential for transformational growth.

So I moved on to yet another circle where the risk was next to nothing minimal $108 in hopes that the purity of circle could sustain without the distortions and fears that come with risk. The $ was non-refundable and no backing or sponsorship allowed. Only freely gifting a space to a friend or paying $108 participation (vs. gift) fee payable via paypal. No more hiding in the shadows! Open to men and affordable to all in this western culture. I cycled through a couple times and brought many on without hesitation, many of whom fared better then me money wise. I used the money I received in this circle to pay for a workshop where I acquired skills to serve postpartum mamas.

Yet even with gradual improvements the big elephant in the room did not disappear. That being that $$$$$ was the magnet for every one of these circles, regardless, of the fee to join. This somehow distracts the majority from the true purpose of these spaces and very few people genuinely participate to the level required to make it a real transformational workshop! For those that do the gifts beyond money can be bountiful. I did indeed give and receive a lot (beyond $). Eventually, I got tired of putting so much energy out with very little collaboration and at times I witnessed outright cattiness, aggression, and greed revealed by women dropping from circles like flies if they were not birthing in a day. After all, the $100 risk was next to nothing so what was there to lose? Much chaos ensued resulting in demands for masculine structure and protocol, invite training calls, etc. which I wanted no part of. I stayed in a couple circles with gentle folk. There was little participation and movement and in the end stagnancy. I dropped out of 3 circles I never cycled through and will not be joining any more. I have since been asked to join a $50 circle and many other numbers besides. lol Needless to say I am done.

It is not until today that I have actually seen the numbers spelled out! I could not see the bigger picture before now. I can relate to the one sister whom talks of “female” math in the sense that numbers can not measure the fluid exchange that happens within a circle, nor grace or karma, tenacity, ambition, or participation. This is akin to measuring the intelligence and learning of a child via standardized tests. What numbers can do is predict the success of the whole, the percentages of which I am not comfortable with. I withdrew after experiencing for myself the inner workings both positive and negative of these spaces. The numbers confirm for me the unsustainability and inherent flaws that exist in these containers, regardless of form or formlessness, protocols and progressions. With that said, there are no victims here. Some very big losses and lessons YES indeed for many. I was protected by the “poverty” of single motherhood from losing any money and am grateful for all that I shared with many as well as the relatively small amount of money that allowed me to learn tangible ways to serve women and purchase food for my child at a time I was down to nothing $.

Thank you Lindsey and those whom have shared with us non mathematical brains the numbers involved here. I highly doubt even the very first woman (or man) whom thought up this structure back in the 80s or 90s could foresee where this would go exponentially and how many would lose. I sincerely believe the original intent was pure in its desire to help women create a way to thrive in empowerment and abundance. I am feeling a next step for this whole culture to evolve in a way where losses are eliminated, legality is clear and embraced, and opportunities for those on the fringes of a collapsing patriarchal economy are plenty in Divine Service, Balance, and Value.

]]>Comment on Addressing The Women’s Wisdom Circle Pyramid by anonhttps://wakingembersfalling.wordpress.com/2013/07/15/2/comment-page-1/#comment-105
Wed, 22 Jan 2014 07:06:26 +0000http://wakingembersfalling.wordpress.com/?p=2#comment-105I totally agree with this comment. I was recently approached by two fellow Sisters in the Tantra Community. This is happening now in Australia. I only had to do a google search to become aware that this was a pyramid scam and the reason why I did a search was because of two red flags, which was the secrecy and the claim that these circles assist women who are experiencing abuse. Glad I looked into it!
]]>Comment on Addressing The Women’s Wisdom Circle Pyramid by Hollyhttps://wakingembersfalling.wordpress.com/2013/07/15/2/comment-page-1/#comment-104
Sun, 25 Aug 2013 03:29:50 +0000http://wakingembersfalling.wordpress.com/?p=2#comment-104bigdawgnamedrespect – big ups for speaking up, mad respect.

As a scholar in the academic field of Transpersonal Psychology,
(which is the study of the philosophy and psychology behind religions, spiritual
traditions, and belief systems and a variety of other strange and interesting
perspectives looking at how humans have evolved their spiritual and not so
spiritual belief systems through the course of time),

In my humble, and professional, opinion, I do believe that this circle game is hiding behind the delusion of enlightenment. Utilizing money as a way to demonstrate how spiritual you are is not going to make you more spiritual…
(aka cold hard cash, not clothes, food, trinkets, time, or labor gifts like true
giving or barter economies)
In this particular sense, where money is so intensely being implemented as the driving force or motivating factor behind spiritual growth and awakening, ponzi-circles demonstrate that those individuals facilitating these quasi-spiritual groups are in fact hiding behind the cloak of spiritual enlightenment, and have in fact integrated the deep fear situated in the shadow of the west coast spiritual culture into their own ego strategies motivated by the fear of not having enough, or belief in the lack of abundance (Not the belief in abundance they are claiming to perpetuate, but the scramble to get all that you can so you get the last worm, forget that slow kid with a limp… its about survival of the fittest (WTF?!)) We’re like, so spiritual, bro.
The very foundation of believing women need to band together in a secret monetary society literally shits on the concept of having wealth and abundance, living in a gifting economy of equals, (what if your kid is a boy!? is he screwed at age 3?).

If you really need help and support, getting handed wads of cash isn’t going to fix your problem, in fact it makes circle participants no better than insider traders on Wall Street, the very 1% that everyone is so upset created a money circle the 99% does not have access to, and is not invited to. Hmmmm sounds familiar…

Believing that you can become so spiritually better than another through giving other people money is what the Catholic Church called Indulgences, or giving money to be higher up in a spiritual community, which touts that those who pay money will more easily find their way to heaven and be more readily welcomes by God. WTF HELLOO WAKE UP

This is the same spiritual bypassing bullshit belief system that cult leaders, corrupt guru’s who have sex with alllll of their followers, and corporate Assholes who enslave children in the dark to make soccer balls are all prescribing to. Now, really, if we are searching for true abundance, lets stop lying to ourselves, its really the first step. Money will not fix the problem, if you can’t find happiness without gobs of money the happiness you find with more monies won’t be very different….Same story, different color letters…

If you really want to love and support each other, try circles without money, where you help each other with projects, volunteer your time to help each other sew clothes, cook together, plant a garden, teach your children… for free – time & real Love is worth way more than money any day, ask any terminally ill person without emotional support. Seriously, none of us need more stuff… lets not support the throw away consumer culture, lets actually spend our energies doing things like developing better schools to educate our kids in, not buy them more dresses…

]]>Comment on Addressing The Women’s Wisdom Circle Pyramid by Sondra Rosehttps://wakingembersfalling.wordpress.com/2013/07/15/2/comment-page-1/#comment-103
Fri, 16 Aug 2013 04:10:05 +0000http://wakingembersfalling.wordpress.com/?p=2#comment-103In our community, we are just starting to dismantle our circle(s)via some key individuals. Once the circle is dismantled as much as is possible on a local level, then alternative structures can be introduced.

In my opinion, it seems important to stop/dismantle the pyramid structure and get clean monetary agreements in place before introducing a new legal structure to support the empowerment/coaching aspect of the circles.

My suggestion has been to return all “gifts” if possible, and if not possible, to turn the “gifts” into loans in the short term and agree on a form of repayment that is acceptable to the gifter. Document the loan via a promissory note, etc. This should allow the participants to escape any legal prosecution.

After a year, if the gifter wants to forgive the loan, then the recipient creates an invoice for coaching services and reports the money as income on her taxes. Again, no evasion of legal obligation.

]]>Comment on Addressing The Women’s Wisdom Circle Pyramid by Anonhttps://wakingembersfalling.wordpress.com/2013/07/15/2/comment-page-1/#comment-101
Wed, 07 Aug 2013 20:31:54 +0000http://wakingembersfalling.wordpress.com/?p=2#comment-101The Circle Sisters should be saying..”Oy! I’m in a scam, and it’s morally indefensible, and I’m ashamed I was duped. How can I repair the damage and provide restitution to those I’ve lured into this thing?”
]]>Comment on Addressing The Women’s Wisdom Circle Pyramid by Scott Malishttps://wakingembersfalling.wordpress.com/2013/07/15/2/comment-page-1/#comment-100
Wed, 07 Aug 2013 16:28:38 +0000http://wakingembersfalling.wordpress.com/?p=2#comment-100Aloha Anon,

I truly respect what you are saying about it being tough to make in the music industry and many other professions as well. Success to me is an inside job…what I mean by that is our success many times comes from own thoughts about our success. I have studied this for 20 years…what makes someone be in that 1-20% who beat the odds and find success where so many others fail??? Of course talent is a key ingredient, but we all agree that many talented people don’t make it…so what is that X-factor that almost all successful share? They fully believe in themselves, they have an alignment of their thoughts and actions that produce results. They also have a magnetic nature that attracts the right connections. Now I also get that a little luck is sometimes needed as well…however luck tends to favor the prepared mind.
I’m glad you are in the minority of musicians who can support their dreams and make a living doing what they love…
So always remember that stats only apply to the masses, not the expectional…so for the 90+% that don’t make it, the stats apply, but to the ones that do make it, they really did not have 1-10% of making it…for them it was really they had 90+% chance of making it…
I know we can go back in forth over whether people’s success is luck or skill…I personally choose the skill side of things. Again when I say skill I am referring to talent mixed with ambission, hard work and the thoughts in their head being in ailment with their purpose. The laws of attraction bring people who have these traits into the right place at the right time to find success. And lastly when our thoughts are in ailment with our purpose we tend to not sabotage our success as well…
Now I can hear people thinking, this sounds a lot like what women of gifting circle are teaching/sharing…there is a big difference to me…as a musician you are bringing value to this world, the gifting circle is only offering smoke and mirrors, with the product being a false reality of success. Because those who succeed (with a conscious) will someday regret being involved. You will never regret playing music and sharing your gifts…
Anon you say you make enough to support life playing music…the only difference between you and Paul Simon is the amount of people your music reaches…what if you could play your music to 10 or 100 times as many people. What if your concerts played thousands vs hundred…or millions instead of thousands??? How cool would that be!