Only 1 ticket per day - seriously???

As I've mentioned in a couple of other places, I do love this app but as with all things that appear to totally rock, there is always at least one drawback - sometimes it's minor and other times not so minor - it just depends. But I do know I'm not alone when it comes to support being a pet peeve - especially with products from smaller companies.

With that in mind, why did you guys decide to limit your customers' ability to submit issues and features requests to 1 per day but you don't care about submitting the same information in the forums? And then why would you state that you prefer to receive this information via that same system (e.g. reporting) that limits our involvement???

In essence, you force customers into being inefficient by having to dribble in submissions per your policy. Do you see how this makes no sense and is actually kind of ironic being that you guys are in the business of helping folks become more efficient?

We put the 1 ticket per day limit there because we had some customers who would make dozens of tickets per day which took us a long time to process, taking our time away from improving the site in other ways. You can always put multiple questions/requests into one ticket.

Well, I'm not sure how an abusive user putting in 12 tickets with 12 different issues is any different than the same user putting in 1 ticket with 12 issues? Also, as I mentioned earlier, why not apply the 1 ticket per day policy to those who abuse - not those who are putting in good feedback?

Restricting how your user-base can communicate with you is always a bad idea and should only be done when there is an overly compelling need to do so.

If the policy has worked to solve the issue at hand, it's clearly because the abusers get tired of logging back in every day to submit ticket after ticket - and if they get tired of doing it, then so will folks who don't abuse which means you lose valuable feedback...

Also, it would be good for you folks to actually publish what you deem abuse. At present, the policy implies that more than 1 ticket per user per day is abusive. I can't believe that this is really what you think so a better approach would be to first define what abuse is and then let folks file at will. Then, as folks cross that threshold, apply the policy to those who abuse.

There's a better way to skin this cat and something along these lines is a step toward that end...

Well, I'm not sure how an abusive user putting in 12 tickets with 12 different issues is any different than the same user putting in 1 ticket with 12 issues? Also, as I mentioned earlier, why not apply the 1 ticket per day policy to those who abuse - not those who are putting in good feedback?

Restricting how your user-base can communicate with you is always a bad idea and should only be done when there is an overly compelling need to do so.

If the policy has worked to solve the issue at hand, it's clearly because the abusers get tired of logging back in every day to submit ticket after ticket - and if they get tired of doing it, then so will folks who don't abuse which means you lose valuable feedback...

Also, it would be good for you folks to actually publish what you deem abuse. At present, the policy implies that more than 1 ticket per user per day is abusive. I can't believe that this is really what you think so a better approach would be to first define what abuse is and then let folks file at will. Then, as folks cross that threshold, apply the policy to those who abuse.

There's a better way to skin this cat and something along these lines is a step toward that end...

Agree completely. When the outline functionality was introduced, I attempted to let the creators know about a couple of issues. However, when trying to add the second ticket, I got a message saying I couldn't.

I figured that if you're not bothered about letting us report issues (especially with a major new bit of functionality!) then you're probably not all that bothered about fixing them either. I've had a similar experience when I started trying to use m.toodledo.com and wanted to report issues.

@sprouty76: That's a good point about the policy being a good indicator of the developers not being terribly concerned with providing fixes. I can honestly say Toodledo is the first company i've ever seen do something like this. Even companies that charge for support do not limit their customers' input when it comes to defect reporting - it's just not something done by companies with solid support.

It's a tough call if I continue to use this - I do like it but to me it's at least equally important to use a company that believes support is right up there with product quality...

We encourage you to submit as many feature requests as you want through these forums (which we read) and you can also put as many request or questions as you want in the same ticket.

The 1 ticket per day limit is there to control spam coming in through our ticketing system and also to discourage people from making 10 similar tickets for the same thing and swamping our ticketing system (yes this did happen quite frequently)

And to set the record straight, we are interested in hearing your feedback so that we can improve the site and fix issues.

...put as many request or questions as you want in the same ticket.The 1 ticket per day limit is there to control spam coming in through our ticketing system and also to discourage people from making 10 similar tickets for the same thing and swamping our ticketing system (yes this did happen quite frequently)....

Makes perfect sense! Thanks for the transparent and comprehensive explanation, and for prompt replies to customer queries.

...put as many request or questions as you want in the same ticket.The 1 ticket per day limit is there to control spam coming in through our ticketing system and also to discourage people from making 10 similar tickets for the same thing and swamping our ticketing system (yes this did happen quite frequently)....

Makes perfect sense! Thanks for the transparent and comprehensive explanation, and for prompt replies to customer queries.

Actually it doesn't make any sense because elsewhere on the Toodledo website, it clearly states they prefer to learn of feature requests and bugs via the reporting system. I suspect the real reason this policy was implemented is that Toodledo lacks the support resources to handle the volume of information. Their ticketing system is one that provides accountability and visibility into how well they handle these requests and the forums do not hold such a spotlight. In fact, Toodledo's own message about their preference for using the reporting system alludes to volume being an issue...I have quoted it for you here...

"You are welcome to discuss bugs or features...but keep in mind that we may get TOO BUSY to read every comment posted in these forums, so we MAY MISS YOUR IDEA. FOR THIS REASON we would PREFER TO RECEIVE BUG REPORTS AND FEATURE REQUESTS sent to us via our SUPPORT TICKETS".

The net-net is that Toodledo built a good product and as with every good product, it's starts to generate feedback. Toodledo got too much feedback and simply couldn't keep up. Then people started complaining and rather than fix the root cause of the issues, they implemented a really lame policy and then try to justify it with even lamer excuses like SPAM and abuse - both of which are very easily solved while still preserving their customers' unrestricted access to the support and PM teams.

This is all tap-dancing and unfortunately, also my queue to move on. As I said earlier, you guys do have a nice product but not so nice that I can ignore when I'm being peddled a line of bovine goodies. If you guys are understaffed - then fine - that's part of being a start-up and actually a good problem to have - it's means you've got some momentum. But the answer is never to limit what is probably the most valuable commodity any tech company can enjoy - honest and reliable customer feedback.

If you were sitting in my seat you would understand. All I can try to do is explain again. We have not put the 1 ticket per day limit in place to stop people from giving us feedback. We want feedback. If you want to give us more than 1 piece of feedback in a single day, please add it to your existing ticket. We will see it and we want to see it.

Secondly, Toodledo gets many many many requests. We add the unique ones to our to-do list. We have 10 years of work queued up in our to-do list right now. Seriously! so we have to prioritize these tasks by a variety of factors. Unfortunately, this means that someone's big idea may not get implemented for years, if at all. This doesn't mean that it is a bad idea or that we aren't listening. It just means that we have other priorities. I know that this is a tough fact to accept, but please understand that we are doing our best to improve Toodledo. We do not have a hidden agenda to ignore, and disgruntle all our customers, I promise.

So reading between the lines there, if you have a feature request that's of relatively low priority, there's little to no chance of it ever being implemented because there will always be higher priority stuff?

Sounds to me like you need to sort your list by importance rather than priority, like your users do :)

After reading all of this I just have to chuckle. Toodledo, I think you are a great program for what you are doing. I see you trying your best and can understand what spam can do to a system like you are saying. I feel what some people dont understand is, what is a priority for them or even 20 people may not be a priority for all. The folks at Toodledo have to take in all the ideas and then factor in how many times the same idea has been requested to come up with a priority list.

If you the current user aren't happy or satisfied with how your ideas, that you and some others may feel are great and need to be instituted right away are being handled. Well there is always the opportunity to build your own program include in what you feel is priority and adapt it the way you want to.

If you were sitting in my seat you would understand. All I can try to do is explain again. We have not put the 1 ticket per day limit in place to stop people from giving us feedback. We want feedback. If you want to give us more than 1 piece of feedback in a single day, please add it to your existing ticket. We will see it and we want to see it.

Secondly, Toodledo gets many many many requests. We add the unique ones to our to-do list. We have 10 years of work queued up in our to-do list right now. Seriously! so we have to prioritize these tasks by a variety of factors. Unfortunately, this means that someone's big idea may not get implemented for years, if at all. This doesn't mean that it is a bad idea or that we aren't listening. It just means that we have other priorities. I know that this is a tough fact to accept, but please understand that we are doing our best to improve Toodledo. We do not have a hidden agenda to ignore, and disgruntle all our customers, I promise.

LOL - you just proved my point - "10 years of work queued" is basically saying that you guys can't scale.

In any event, I have been in your position which is why I can speak from a position of authority - I've done your job for both startups and established companies. I'm not just puling my comments out of my backside because I have some sort of urgent need that needs to be addressed. All your policy does is allow you to be unaccountable regarding product development and bug fixes.

"What we have here is a failure to communicate."
Strother Martin as "Boss", "Cool Hand Luke"

It seems to me that there is a communications issue here, between some users and Jake about what the Priorities/Importance should be in TD's development. Many of us users would like to see more depth added to the task management part of TD. This would include features like Dependencies (aka sequencing), Saved Views (sort and filter settings save with Saved Search) and so forth. A lot of bug fixes fall in with these. Many of us would like to see these things attended to first.

OTOH, Jake wants to maximize profits on TD, like any intelligent small business owner. It appears to me, though Jake may not want to say so outright, that he has decided the best way to increase profits is to expand TD horizontally rather than vertically, which means adding entirely new features, like Lists and Outlines, alongside TD's already considerably extensive task management features, and give relatively little effort to adding depth.

While I would much prefer the other route, Jake stubbornly :) continues to want to make money out of his business. I can relate to this as I have had a few businesses and I wanted to make money from them too. Having added new features, development efforts appear to be going more to giving some depth and better integration of these new features than to development of the task management side, and it will remain this way for the foreseeable future.

I'm not happy about this, as now that I've found what is one of the best task managers available, I've found it just as its maturation has ceased. It is my perception that in the few years I have before I retire and no longer need a powerful, high end task manager, I'll won't see most, if any, of the features I most desire and need. Certainly a disappointment, though not up there with never being an NFL starting quarterback, and never having dated Bridgett Bardot (google her pic, youngsters!)

Nonetheless, railing at Jake seems pointless to me. I doubt that Jake's head will be turned by my threatening to desert TD, or even taking with me the legions of friends who will immediately subscribe at the Platinum level if he will bend to my will. ;)

I fear that Jake is one stubborn so-and-so, and will keep his eye steadily on the prize, just as any smart entrepreneur would do.

"What we have here is a failure to communicate."
Strother Martin as "Boss", "Cool Hand Luke"

It seems to me that there is a communications issue here, between some users and Jake about what the Priorities/Importance should be in TD's development. Many of us users would like to see more depth added to the task management part of TD. This would include features like Dependencies (aka sequencing), Saved Views (sort and filter settings save with Saved Search) and so forth. A lot of bug fixes fall in with these. Many of us would like to see these things attended to first.

OTOH, Jake wants to maximize profits on TD, like any intelligent small business owner. It appears to me, though Jake may not want to say so outright, that he has decided the best way to increase profits is to expand TD horizontally rather than vertically, which means adding entirely new features, like Lists and Outlines, alongside TD's already considerably extensive task management features, and give relatively little effort to adding depth.

While I would much prefer the other route, Jake stubbornly :) continues to want to make money out of his business. I can relate to this as I have had a few businesses and I wanted to make money from them too. Having added new features, development efforts appear to be going more to giving some depth and better integration of these new features than to development of the task management side, and it will remain this way for the foreseeable future.

I'm not happy about this, as now that I've found what is one of the best task managers available, I've found it just as its maturation has ceased. It is my perception that in the few years I have before I retire and no longer need a powerful, high end task manager, I'll won't see most, if any, of the features I most desire and need. Certainly a disappointment, though not up there with never being an NFL starting quarterback, and never having dated Bridgett Bardot (google her pic, youngsters!)

Nonetheless, railing at Jake seems pointless to me. I doubt that Jake's head will be turned by my threatening to desert TD, or even taking with me the legions of friends who will immediately subscribe at the Platinum level if he will bend to my will. ;)

I fear that Jake is one stubborn so-and-so, and will keep his eye steadily on the prize, just as any smart entrepreneur would do.

Really - so it's profit issue??? LAFF...yeah, it's such a profitable idea that all the other tech companies do the same thing - start-ups too!!!!

Jake, I'm going to put my $0.02 in here &, as always, you are welcome to take it or leave it...or, for that matter, take what you like & leave the rest!

I personally think you could keep your ticket creation at a reasonable but unrestricted level if you:

1) specify that the ticket system is only for reporting bugs in Toodledo or its products &

2) have a forum section specifically for Feature Requests (or ask that "Feature Request" be included in the title & put in the existing Questions Forum).

Then, if people put feature requests into the ticket system, you immediately close them with a status of Feature Request & tell them to put it in the Forum. It may take a little learning curve for some but you should soon get a manageable number of true support tickets.

By using the Feature Request Forum, all requests would be publicly visible, open for discussion, & formal or informal "voting." You would likely get a better idea of how many people want a particular feature as well as have your users think through, in advance, how they would want the feature to work. Jake & the other TD folks could particpate in the forum discussion like always. A nice by-product, hopefully, would be that you wouldn't have to deal with many duplicate suggestions as you probably do now within the current ticket system.

Handling it this way would make everything much more transparent to your users, remove any complaints about not being able to create more than 1 support (bug) ticket per day & get your users to hash through much of the design/requirements discussion on new features for you.

All in all, I'd think it would make your work easier & make your customers happier to boot! What do you think, Jake?

Quote: "Many of us would like to see more Depth added to the Task Management part of TD".

I use Toodledo primarily for Task Management. If this does not get priority in feature development I tend to be attracted to other Task Mgmt systems. Trying to be everything to everyone "Jack of all and Master of none" makes one loose one's precious brand essence and competitive advantage.

I may be misunderstanding what you requested but I believe these 2 items are both done. If not the latter, then certainly the former because I have a couple of tasks that repeat every weekday!

I didn't include much detail, because I didn't want to get into a discussion of individual feature requests and their merits (or otherwise).

But if you're interested, the scheduler one was about merging the 2 pages used in the scheduler, so you could tweak the schedule without having to go back and start again if e.g. you wanted to adjust the available hours slightly.

The weekday one was not just about being able to repeat something on every weekday, it was to do something like set a task to repeat on the first or last weekday of the month - I get paid on the last weekday in the month and like to check my bank account to make sure it's gone in ok.