The key to understanding PoE may be that is it not made for the same players as Diablo 2

I think you're confusing 'reference' for 'similar element'. In which case yes, PoE has similar elements to Diablo 2. They're both ARPGs. Go figure.

For me, the most notable reference was the bottom floor of Lunaris (Durance of Hatred, and Mephisto's room).

But I'm fine with that. As you said, it's not really "in your face" or obnoxious.

That's true. I consider them almost like subconscious elements. For whatever reason, act 1's boss is female, and act 3's 'main dungeon' (for a while) is full of blood and torture devices etc.

I think I'd take more exception IF these weren't perfectly justified by the game around them. If anything, I'd say that Piety's Lunaris is more justified in its depravity than Mephisto's Durance of Hate, even though DoH obviously came first.

That and Lunaris is a whole other league of horrifying than DoH ever was.

Just think. If I supported PoE now, you could call me a Breached Whale.

"...to become professional game developers, they removed themselves from their own target audience" . . ."do you think this is true"

No, I do not think this is true. Their audience, as far as I can tell, is the audience that was interested in D2. Most that played D2 are of a certain age, and while PoE has it's shortcomings, i believe it appeals to that audience quite well.

"...to become professional game developers, they removed themselves from their own target audience" . . ."do you think this is true"

No, I do not think this is true. Their audience, as far as I can tell, is the audience that was interested in D2. Most that played D2 are of a certain age, and while PoE has it's shortcomings, i believe it appeals to that audience quite well.

I see. Do you still think they are hardcore gamers when they are working a full time job being as busy as they say and taking vacations etc? I do not think they are quite as hardcore into actually playing as they were when they sat down to make the game.

It is this process of them wanting to create something for older people that are all in hardcore, but then in doing so becoming less that themselves that is ironic because that is what happens as you find success in life.

I am not saying all assumptions are true, i am just saying that it is an interesting line of thought. I write it for people to think for themselves what that means.

I am the light of the morning and the shadow on the wall, I am nothing and I am all.

You assume that the game was made to be played 6+ hours a day else it isn't enjoyable. That simply isn't the case. I play 1-2 hours a day maybe a couple days a week and I have a blast with it. Even when I only get to do one map on my lunch break it's still fun, so no this game is not for "no-lifers" only and can still be enjoyed very much by people with a career and a family.

I actually agree. PoE is made for casual players. I don't know why people call it hardcore, when the "hardcore" 12 hour a day players like myself and many of the top streamers have already quit playing again.

For a casual player, you can still find upgrades and see exp bars rising. There is progress. For the hardcore, there is only hundreds of hours between usable items and level progression, and the majority of the time we are going backwards. The legit "hardcore" players(not using RMT/bots/multibox) have realized that there is really no satisfaction to be had here after a certain point. When you hit level 85, it's time to reroll yet again, or find a new game.

Gating uniqes, high level map accessibility, and ABYSMAL drop rates on what should be considered 'average' end game items discourage everything that the hardcore grinder is competing for. I'm the kind of person who likes to deeply immerse myself into a game, and I am a no-life grinder. Once you tell a no-life 12 hour a day grinder "no progression" and "these end game items are for lottery! not for you", well then fuck off. My Mara from the 1w race has comparable gear to my Nemesis Scion who has 600 hours played, which means I could have just played 1 very efficient and smart week of Nemesis, and invested the other 500 hours into something that actually rewards time invested. That's a huge fucking problem.

I honestly think that the devs are aiming at keeping PoE alive for at least a decade. An endeavor of that magnitude, in gaming, is insane to say the least.

That being said, I hope they find time to take vacations and find ways of separating their personal lives from their jobs. From what I've experienced, most jobs suck.

I'm guessing most, especially those who didn't play D2, don't have any experience as to what playing a game years on end entails. It's a slow progression on purpose (there's only so much content).

Am I a hardcore gamer? He'll no, but I wish! That would imply I had money and didn't have to work and deal with "life".

Will I still be playing PoE . . .tomorrow, next month, five years from now? Who knows, life happens, and ultimately, I really don't care. It's just one of MANY games I intend to play until I'm rotting in a nursing home.

I can tell you why this is called hardcore. It is because you need to go hardcore ARPG mode on it to get the "good" stuff. It requires a hardcore investment in theorycrafting and research on forums to understand underlying mechanics before you are really playing the game.

You may say you would call that something else than hardcore, but it is some of the reasons why it is often called hardcore by many.

I am not saying they do no reach out to casuals, such as drops being reduced by chainfarming etc, but you really have to be a very specific type of casual player as not to feel completely hopeless to get get a well properly developed character, namely the one who doesn't care too much about what is possible to get, but rather just play because what they see is fun and do not expect to reach the top.

Also. Their RNG systems are not good on the casuals, such as fusing functionality etc. Basically they do not work very well if you are unlucky, and the more time you spend in the game the more of an "average" experience of those systems you will have. For casuals those systems are prone to remove their incentive to play at all.

I am the light of the morning and the shadow on the wall, I am nothing and I am all.

I honestly think that the devs are aiming at keeping PoE alive for at least a decade. An endeavor of that magnitude, in gaming, is insane to say the least.

That being said, I hope they find time to take vacations and find ways of separating their personal lives from their jobs. From what I've experienced, most jobs suck.

I'm guessing most, especially those who didn't play D2, don't have any experience as to what playing a game years on end entails. It's a slow progression on purpose (there's only so much content).

Am I a hardcore gamer? He'll no, but I wish! That would imply I had money and didn't have to work and deal with "life".

Will I still be playing PoE . . .tomorrow, next month, five years from now? Who knows, life happens, and ultimately, I really don't care. It's just one of MANY games I intend to play until I'm rotting in a nursing home.

That is good to hear, i think it is a healthy attitude.

I am the light of the morning and the shadow on the wall, I am nothing and I am all.

I'm a full time career mechanic with a wife, play maybe 2 hours a day during the week, a lot on Saturdays, and very little on Sundays. Most of the people i associate with in game are in the same boat. How did I/we get 6Ls and fully geared characters? I'm certain it's not by spending all my free time whining on the forums.