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The Book of the Diner is well worth preserving. I only wish it had reached a broader audience when it might have mattered more. That is a testament to the blindness of our culture. If there is a future to look back from, one difficult question historians will have to ask is how we let this happen, when so many saw it coming. This site has certainly aggregated enough information and critical thinking to prove that.[/b]

AuthorTopic: Seastead of the Day (Read 25954 times)

My issue with the McGregor and similar trailerable boats is that they are, by necessity of design, inherently less stable than a similar size boat with a fixed keel, and therefore more subject to being knocked down in a sudden wind gust.

As someone who has had this happen, in less than great conditions, with little kids of my own on board, I have to mention it as a concern.

They also don't come with an engine, and would require an outboard motor of some kind. If you were an expert sailor you could certainly get by without an engine, but they make life easier,and increase safety for beginners.

Chartering a fixed keel boat with a roller furling jib and a diesel auxiliary makes for an easy intro, with no long term investment.

This MacGregor comes with an 8HP Suzuki outboard. In anything but really bad conditions, that is plenty for this size of boat, although if I was replacing it I would go for 20HP.

Of course such a configuration of boat is not as stable as a fixed keel, but you're not taking the fucking thing circumnavigating either. Getting a keelboat onto a trailer is no EZ task. I've seen this done, and even with a small boat it's a pain in the ass. You're making a trade-off here of convenience in trailering and storage for the stability you would get from a full keel.

Chartering a fixed keel boat means prior to that you have to have taken some type of course that hands out a ticket for you to charter boats. That by itself probably costs as much as this MacGregor does. You can't just walk out on the dock and hand somebody $2000 and expect them to hand over their boat for you to practice on. You buy this MacGregor, you can practice anytime you like, you just hook the thing to your Chevy 3/4 Ton Hemi and drop it in the local lake on nice daze on the weekend.

Can you get knocked down with this boat? Yes, of course you can, but this also is good experience if it happens to you (preferably not with the kids on board at the time of course, or at least below decks). If you drop the boat on smaller lakes to begin with, you're probably not going to encounter such winds anyhow. If/when you feel confident enough in your skills to drop it on the Great Lake they call Gitchee-Goomey and the winds of November come early and are getting big, stow the kids below decks and hook yourself to the boat with a cable, take down the sails and GTFO of Dodge with your trusty 8HP Suzuki as fast as you fucking can. Make shore and the boat ramp and haul the mother fucker out of the water with your big ass Chevy Hemi.

It's a starter boat, its not anything real permanent except for maybe somebody like me who just pulls it around on a trailer most of the time. Great X-tra storage space for Preps!

Permanent Bugout machine, for DB with 2 kids this is not enough boat. 35' minimum there IMHO. But he can move up to that later after gaining experience on this VERY cheap MacGregor.

My issue with the McGregor and similar trailerable boats is that they are, by necessity of design, inherently less stable than a similar size boat with a fixed keel, and therefore more subject to being knocked down in a sudden wind gust.

As someone who has had this happen, in less than great conditions, with little kids of my own on board, I have to mention it as a concern.

They also don't come with an engine, and would require an outboard motor of some kind. If you were an expert sailor you could certainly get by without an engine, but they make life easier,and increase safety for beginners.

Chartering a fixed keel boat with a roller furling jib and a diesel auxiliary makes for an easy intro, with no long term investment.

This MacGregor comes with an 8HP Suzuki outboard. In anything but really bad conditions, that is plenty for this size of boat, although if I was replacing it I would go for 20HP.

Of course such a configuration of boat is not as stable as a fixed keel, but you're not taking the fucking thing circumnavigating either. Getting a keelboat onto a trailer is no EZ task. I've seen this done, and even with a small boat it's a pain in the ass. You're making a trade-off here of convenience in trailering and storage for the stability you would get from a full keel.

Chartering a fixed keel boat means prior to that you have to have taken some type of course that hands out a ticket for you to charter boats. That by itself probably costs as much as this MacGregor does. You can't just walk out on the dock and hand somebody $2000 and expect them to hand over their boat for you to practice on. You buy this MacGregor, you can practice anytime you like, you just hook the thing to your Chevy 3/4 Ton Hemi and drop it in the local lake on nice daze on the weekend.

Can you get knocked down with this boat? Yes, of course you can, but this also is good experience if it happens to you (preferably not with the kids on board at the time of course, or at least below decks). If you drop the boat on smaller lakes to begin with, you're probably not going to encounter such winds anyhow. If/when you feel confident enough in your skills to drop it on the Great Lake they call Gitchee-Goomey and the winds of November come early and are getting big, stow the kids below decks and hook yourself to the boat with a cable, take down the sails and GTFO of Dodge with your trusty 8HP Suzuki as fast as you fucking can. Make shore and the boat ramp and haul the mother fucker out of the water with your big ass Chevy Hemi.

It's a starter boat, its not anything real permanent except for maybe somebody like me who just pulls it around on a trailer most of the time. Great X-tra storage space for Preps!

Permanent Bugout machine, for DB with 2 kids this is not enough boat. 35' minimum there IMHO. But he can move up to that later after gaining experience on this VERY cheap MacGregor.

RE

A born salesman! Gordon lightfoot grew up 90 minutes from here in Orillia where my older daughter was born. its tied for the nearest "city" being about 30000. In Gordon's time it was the size of the towns near us (about 3500)... As previously discussed I would bug out as an absolute last resort once the homestead was no longer viable/defendable. Were that the case I would seek refuge in another enclave near here with like minded people I know. If absolutely forced to bug out I would sail off into the 90 percent of Canada that is still public land in the trailer. Lower maintenance costs than a boat. Gas is a problem of course but so is a trailered boat. That would really be my last move though. I'm in C5's camp on that one.

My issue with the McGregor and similar trailerable boats is that they are, by necessity of design, inherently less stable than a similar size boat with a fixed keel, and therefore more subject to being knocked down in a sudden wind gust.

As someone who has had this happen, in less than great conditions, with little kids of my own on board, I have to mention it as a concern.

They also don't come with an engine, and would require an outboard motor of some kind. If you were an expert sailor you could certainly get by without an engine, but they make life easier,and increase safety for beginners.

Chartering a fixed keel boat with a roller furling jib and a diesel auxiliary makes for an easy intro, with no long term investment.

This MacGregor comes with an 8HP Suzuki outboard. In anything but really bad conditions, that is plenty for this size of boat, although if I was replacing it I would go for 20HP.

Of course such a configuration of boat is not as stable as a fixed keel, but you're not taking the fucking thing circumnavigating either. Getting a keelboat onto a trailer is no EZ task. I've seen this done, and even with a small boat it's a pain in the ass. You're making a trade-off here of convenience in trailering and storage for the stability you would get from a full keel.

Chartering a fixed keel boat means prior to that you have to have taken some type of course that hands out a ticket for you to charter boats. That by itself probably costs as much as this MacGregor does. You can't just walk out on the dock and hand somebody $2000 and expect them to hand over their boat for you to practice on. You buy this MacGregor, you can practice anytime you like, you just hook the thing to your Chevy 3/4 Ton Hemi and drop it in the local lake on nice daze on the weekend.

Can you get knocked down with this boat? Yes, of course you can, but this also is good experience if it happens to you (preferably not with the kids on board at the time of course, or at least below decks). If you drop the boat on smaller lakes to begin with, you're probably not going to encounter such winds anyhow. If/when you feel confident enough in your skills to drop it on the Great Lake they call Gitchee-Goomey and the winds of November come early and are getting big, stow the kids below decks and hook yourself to the boat with a cable, take down the sails and GTFO of Dodge with your trusty 8HP Suzuki as fast as you fucking can. Make shore and the boat ramp and haul the mother fucker out of the water with your big ass Chevy Hemi.

It's a starter boat, its not anything real permanent except for maybe somebody like me who just pulls it around on a trailer most of the time. Great X-tra storage space for Preps!

Permanent Bugout machine, for DB with 2 kids this is not enough boat. 35' minimum there IMHO. But he can move up to that later after gaining experience on this VERY cheap MacGregor.

RE

A born salesman! Gordon lightfoot grew up 90 minutes from here in Orillia where my older daughter was born. its tied for the nearest "city" being about 30000. In Gordon's time it was the size of the towns near us (about 3500)... As previously discussed I would bug out as an absolute last resort once the homestead was no longer viable/defendable. Were that the case I would seek refuge in another enclave near here with like minded people I know. If absolutely forced to bug out I would sail off into the 90 percent of Canada that is still public land in the trailer. Lower maintenance costs than a boat. Gas is a problem of course but so is a trailered boat. That would really be my last move though. I'm in C%'s camp on that one.

As I have mentioned, said boat is NOT a real good bugout machine by itself. In combination with a Stealth Van, it could be OK, mainly as a trailer to haul preps, but also a good fishing boat. You're not going to go circumnavigating in a boat like this, unless you are a Darwin Award candidate. I wouldn't even take it more than 20 miles offshore on Superior and only in good weather. You park the boat in a well protected cove and use it to fish from. You practice your sailing techniques on it. When you got it down well enough, THEN you buy a decent 35-45' boat that can handle Hudson Bay. When you take on that trip, do it in midsummer to GTFO of Dodge. Wait for the icebergs to melt down before you go blue water. Unless you think you are really good by then anyhow. If I was real healthy again I might try it, but only with Eddie aboard as well. Even then I wouldn't do it unless it was a pure survival necessity. That is very risky shit. Doesn't matter how good you are. You are rolling the dice.

If I can get SaVANnah down to the Lower 48 and the Great White North, I think she could pull this boat. That would be a pretty ideal combination. I will need to upgrade the suspension for this, but the engine is up to the task. Only 140K Miles on it and smooth as silk when running. 8C Turbocharged Super V-8, that sucker can pull a lot of weight, even over the mountains of the Yukon Territory.

Are we talking about Ford E-150 chassis vans? Who did the turbo work on yours? Ford didn't put turbo's on the Tritan modular motors until later, and that was more for performance models like Mustang Cobra's or some brawny F-150 racey truck type things. In the modern era Ford is slapping them on everything, but back then turbo's were mostly found on diesel pickups. The early Triton modular v8s were like normally aspirated 4.6L or 5.4L. I've towed with a 5.4L Triton in a pickup truck, but no more than a ton or two. It did quite well everywhere from California coastal roads to crossing the continental divide a few times. In exchange for shitty fuel mileage of course.

If I can get SaVANnah down to the Lower 48 and the Great White North, I think she could pull this boat. That would be a pretty ideal combination. I will need to upgrade the suspension for this, but the engine is up to the task. Only 140K Miles on it and smooth as silk when running. 8C Turbocharged Super V-8, that sucker can pull a lot of weight, even over the mountains of the Yukon Territory.

Are we talking about Ford E-150 chassis vans? Who did the turbo work on yours? Ford didn't put turbo's on the Tritan modular motors until later, and that was more for performance models like Mustang Cobra's or some brawny F-150 racey truck type things. In the modern era Ford is slapping them on everything, but back then turbo's were mostly found on diesel pickups. The early Triton modular v8s were like normally aspirated 4.6L or 5.4L. I've towed with a 5.4L Triton in a pickup truck, but no more than a ton or two. It did quite well everywhere from California coastal roads to crossing the continental divide a few times. In exchange for shitty fuel mileage of course.

Previous owner was an Israeli with an auto shop in Anchorage. He was selling out and heading back for Israel. Insane, IMHO.

It would be stretching the limit to pull that size boat all the time with SaVANnah. It would fry the engine or the tranny at some point with that vehicle. More realistically, I would have to drop the boat size down to 20'.

To me, the ultimate in Trailerable Sailboats are the Ian Farrier designed Folding Trimarans, which come in models from around 18' to I think as big as 34'. The 22' model is the most widely built and is its own racing class. It's a very fast boat that will sail to windward better than any monohull anywhere near that size. You will kick the ass of any monohull in the regatta if you are halfway decent. Classes of boats were split because of these type of multihulls. They blow the living shit out of any keelboat for speed.

Here is the same type of boat with the pontoons folded and either getting ready to sail or finishing off the day.

Here is one on its trailer (this one is a 28' model)

Here is a short video of an F-22 in action

You could, in theory circumnavigate one of these, although you would need to be VERY Spartan and a very good sailor to do it. Myself, I would not try that stunt even if I was 30 again and in top shape still able to do double backs and hoist my compact body up a mast on arm power only. You CAN in theory right one of these folders if it has turned turtle, although you would need to be a very good swimmer/snorkeler to do it and wait for the seas to calm before you try it. You can buy the plans for them and build them yourself. I would power it up electric with 2 20HP motors on the pontoons and a 30 HP gas outboard on the main hull. You could push through anything with that shit on that size boat.

Forgetting for the moment of trying to go Blue Water with this, on any typical lake it won't be hard to sail, it wouldn't even be that tough on the Great Lake they call Gitchee-Goomey. The only problem here is that scaling up to a larger monohull later will take some adjustment, the sailing characteristics are not the same. I don't think though the adjustment would be all that hard.

For me on my own, I think I could get away with a 22' Ian Farrier and pull it with SaVANnah. They are lightweight boats. It could work as a Bugout system for me. Finding one at a good price though is tough, they don't usually come cheap. Also even healthy I don't have the skills to build one myself in the back yard. Only somebody like Peter or DB could do that.

Houston location. Why don't you buy that one? It's even cheaper than that other dead man's boat.

RE

What I see this year is that prices are continuing to fall even more, after having fallen for more than five years. If I were in a position to live aboard, I would be tempted to buy now, maybe not this one, but one of the many good ones I've been seeing. But I've had to accept that it just wouldn't be smart to take on the debt...or to cash out of something... to acquire what, as of right now would be more of a liability than an asset.

For guys like me (and you) right now, where we are, money in the bank or some decent investment, or even preps, is better than putting money into a boat. If the boat were free, the insurance, slip fees, and gas back and forth to take care of it would put an undue burden on my finances. I won't buy unless my situation changes into one more compatible with living on the boat, which I'd love...but doesn't make sense, really.

It is the freedom that keeps me looking. Living aboard is living free of a lot of constraints and bullshit. It represents an exit strategy from boring BAU and work. It would be an excellent chapter in my life, of that I have no doubt. But responsibility comes first.

Houston location. Why don't you buy that one? It's even cheaper than that other dead man's boat.

RE

What I see this year is that prices are continuing to fall even more, after having fallen for more than five years. If I were in a position to live aboard, I would be tempted to buy now, maybe not this one, but one of the many good ones I've been seeing. But I've had to accept that it just wouldn't be smart to take on the debt...or to cash out of something... to acquire what, as of right now would be more of a liability than an asset.

For guys like me (and you) right now, where we are, money in the bank or some decent investment, or even preps, is better than putting money into a boat. If the boat were free, the insurance, slip fees, and gas back and forth to take care of it would put an undue burden on my finances. I won't buy unless my situation changes into one more compatible with living on the boat, which I'd love...but doesn't make sense, really.

It is the freedom that keeps me looking. Living aboard is living free of a lot of constraints and bullshit. It represents an exit strategy from boring BAU and work. It would be an excellent chapter in my life, of that I have no doubt. But responsibility comes first.

Those are good reasons, but it does buy one more thing, which is the Insurance Policy of a GTFO of Dodge vehicle, along with of course many pleasant weekends before SHTF Day comes to go sailing and exploring. You could save money on your VI vacations also, take that into account.

I am in a position now to be a liveaboard, but unfortunately not much of a sailor to move it around and the hot & humid weather of south TX is not very appealing to me, even with good A/C in the cabin. So this one doesn't fit the bill for me either, cheap as it comes.

Too expensive for just the get-outa-Dodge advantage. Besides, I don't need to get outa Dodge. I just want to sometimes. LOL. Until the climate gets a lot worse, or I cash out of the stead, I have that strategy to spend money on.

More than a survival strategy, for me the boat would be......like the guy who knows he has cancer but isn't that sick yet, and just wants to have one more really good adventure while it's still possible. It would be a chance to enjoy living on the ocean while there are still interesting things living in it, and places to go worth visiting and experiencing.

Very tempting. Looks like somebody back from cruising and ready to get out.

If you were in good enough health to enjoy living aboard I'd take you up on it, but you couldn't get up and down the companionway right now, and I wouldn't be close enough to even check on you if you had a problem. Makes no sense for you anymore.

Still, maybe worth looking at. I am tempted to drive down, even though I'm not sure where the money would come from.I might email the seller or call.

Very tempting. Looks like somebody back from cruising and ready to get out.

If you were in good enough health to enjoy living aboard I'd take you up on it, but you couldn't get up and down the companionway right now, and I wouldn't be close enough to even check on you if you had a problem. Makes no sense for you anymore.

Still, maybe worth looking at. I am tempted to drive down, even though I'm not sure where the money would come from.I might email the seller or call.

First off, I remain hopeful of some recovery here!

Second, I already have an elevator system with an electric winch figured out to get up and down from the cabin. I also probably could do it manually as long as there are rail handholds to pull myself with. There are all sorts of commercial units available for cripples to use also.

Take pics when you get there. I am reserving the right to buy in if I can get healthy enough for it in a few months.