Salam dear brother. Judaism and Christianity have the right to exist, and in the Holy Quran, Allah (subhanahu wa taala) says that, just like anyone, they will exist and differ among themselves till the day of judgment. (see, Quran, 5:13-14)

And in fact we can have discussions with people of the scriptures. And Quran calls us Muslims and the people of scriptures to come together, find common grounds and unite in the essence of tawheed (oneoness of Allah).

However, I agree, some of the Christian members here are not here to do that. They don't study Islam from Islamic sources. Rather they choose only to preach Christianity. And it bears problem. It turns into a one sided "conversation".

Please, don't think I am judgmental. I personally know some of the Christians here. For instance, the member "Caringheart" was banned in other islamic websites (sunni forums, shiachat, etc.) for preaching Christianity always , insulting the Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh&hp) and speaking hatred against vigilant Muslims and Christians, especially against Palestinians.

S/he had thousands of posts on those forums, yet with no knowledge of even a verse in the Holy Quran. What s/he would do, was just to post "Christian" "arguments", support the invasion and crimes of the zionist entity against Palestinian Muslims and Christians, be a mouthpiece of American imperialism, etc. And posting and advertising Islamophopic stuff always. And when Muslim brethren would reply and explain the issues, the typical response you get from "Caringheart" was "I wouldn't know about these things you talk about. But it seems so unnatural and wrong to me!". Playing the dumb. lol.

It tells you how "TRUTH SEEKER" this Christian member and alike here are. (the account used in sunniforum I don't remember the nickname, but on shiachat it was "Clynn" or something.)

Brother, if they were here to do research on Islam and to discuss things and find a common ground, it would be nice. But it isn't. That is why, you always see them quote Christian texts. And they refer you to Islamophobic books, websites, etc.

I am not talking about sincerely searching/studying Christian brethren here btw. What I said above goes for certain person and alike.

If you wish to be pertinent, you must refrain from quoting the Bible. Muslims do not believe in the authenticity of the Bible that is read today. Muslims do not even believe in the authenticity of Bible kept in christian institutions, if any, even if they were written only a few centuries after Jesus. We Muslims believe in the authenticity of the Qur'an up to this day, as mentioned in the Qur'an itself, and of which the scholars have also established evidence.

It is hard to discuss with Christians:

1/ for the irrelevance of rejecting the prophethood of Muhammad (saw), who is holy and heavenly

2/ for the irrelevance of rejecting the prophethood of Muhammad (saw), after accepting that of Jesus (as) (and they accept, as we know, more than prophecy)

3/ For the iniquity of rejecting the prophethood of Muhammad (saw), the last of the prophets that were sent to mankind, and so it will remain to the end of time.

Jesus and all prophets have tremendous reverence for Muhammad (saw) as we know from the Qur'an and the hadiths on the Night Journey.

Christianity has no right to exist.

Muslim do not believe what God said to his Prophets and THEY simply believe this because Muhammad said so his followers did not even compose the Quran properly after Muhammad passed away.

When Muhammad died in 632 CE, the Qur’an had not been recorded and collected into a book. Instead, Muslims memorized large portions of the Qur'an. This was especially true of people who knew Muhammad in person. The Qur’an means to recite. It is possible that some of the verses had been recorded on bones, rocks, or hides before Muhammad died. Regardless, it didn’t take long for the early Muslims to decide that they needed to have the Qur’an collected into a book.

The original Qur’an was completed by 634 CE. It is important to understand that a political process is what produced the Qur’an. In 633 CE, a military battle caused 700 Muslims to be killed. A close friend of Muhammad (named Salim) that could recite a large portion of the Qur’an was killed. What would happen if all the close followers of Muhammad were killed? Early Muslims wanted to maintain the purity of the Qur’an as Muhammad had spoken it.

So the original Qur’an of 634 CE was created during the political reign of Abu Bakr. This original Qur’an came to be known as the Hafsah codex (about 10 years later when Hafsah began to maintain it). However, this most important original manuscript of the Qur’an was destroyed by Muslim leaders in 667 CE. (Hafsah was one of Muhammad's wives. She maintained the original Qur'an until her death in 667 CE. Muslim leaders wanted to destroy the original Qur'an before Hafsah died. But she refused to hand over the codex for burning. She was successful until her death [Refer to Al-Masahif 24] It is most important to ask, "Why did Hafsah not wish to have this most important original manuscript of the Qur'an to be burnt?").

It appears that the Hafsah codex was one of the last Qur’ans to be willingly destroyed by Muslims. Since the original Qur’an was not accepted, what happened to cause such a drastic change that required the original Qur’an to be destroyed? Why wasn’t the Hafsah codex maintained since it was created (in 634 CE) within two years after Muhammad died (in 632 CE)?

The history of how the Qur’an came to be recorded comes from reliable Muslim source materials. These are called the Hadith. Problems for the Qur’an began to occur during the reign of the 3rd political leader of Islam, whose name is Uthman (644 TO 656 CE). It appears that as the Islamic faith spread with military conquest across a large area, the soldiers were reading different versions of the Qur’an. These men wondered, "Is the Qur’an truly as pure as those close to Muhammad believed and taught?"

They don't study Islam from Islamic sources. Rather they choose only to preach Christianity. And it bears problem. It turns into a one sided "conversation".

Thanks. ma salam

Greetings kodoo,

When you study Christianity do you study from 'Christian' and secular sources, or only from islamic source?Do you choose 'only to preach islam'?Have you ever considered that your conversations are one-sided?

As far as all your other references to me, you are off base. I study always from many sources, trying to see from both sides. Yes, I have difficulty seeing from the islamic side, and I do not understand all of what you believe, and how you support some of the things which you do, and so yes I will state that, and I will question.

Do you understand all of what Christians believe and support? Can you see things from their side or do you find it also hard to understand, and do you not also openly state this, and question Christians about why they believe as they do?Have you even tried to see things from the other side?

asalaam.

Edited by Caringheart - 24 August 2014 at 7:53pm

Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis

I don't study Christianity. I don't wish to. And you can't force us to. If I did study however, I would start with reading the "Bible" however, not some answering christianity website. But you claim you study Islam, however through anti-Islamic BS.

And the thing is, I don't go to Christian forums to promote Islam (and I don't think they would allow me if I did), but you come to Islamic forums to promote the Americanized-Zion version of "Christianity". And that is why I tell you to stop this and instead study Islam if your aim is to do research.

With all these years of trolling on Islamic forums, can you teach me one thing about Islam? What is Salah? Why do we pray? What do the postures (standing, bowing down, prostration) mean in Islam? Why one ruku but two sajda in every rakah? Can you name me one short surah in Quran and recite it? Or a Dua/Supplication verse from Quran or hadiths of Prophet and Ahlulbayt?

I don't think so. So please stop this lie that you seek truth or study Islam. You don't. You just troll around promoting American-Zion imperialims. And you use the blessed name of Jesus for this filthy agenda.

Do you know, the worst person in earth is he who sells his religion to the world. But who is worse than him is the person who sells his religion to the worldly benefits of others. You are selling the understanding of religion, truth and justice to the material aims of American govt and Zionists.

How dare you support the criminal zionist entity! Curse of God and his Prophets, namely Jesus, be upon the criminals.

I don't study Christianity. I don't wish to. And you can't force us to. If I did study however, I would start with reading the "Bible"

Greetings kodoo,

Precisely. Which is why I have gone to the qur'an.

And the thing is, I don't go to Christian forums to promote Islam (and I don't think they would allow me if I did), but you come to Islamic forums to promote the Americanized-Zion version of "Christianity".

and I came to the islamic forums because I wanted to talk to muslims directly, and hear from them what they believed and understood about current events that are happening, not to 'promote' anything.

With all these years of trolling on Islamic forums, can you teach me one thing about Islam? What is Salah?

Salah, or salat, is prayer.Shukran is thank youasalaam or salaam is peaceasalaam alaykum is greetingsI learned early on, that it is important to muslims to use proper greetings and observe formality. I am glad to have learned this. I now practice this with all people.

Why do we pray?

as far as I know, muslims pray 5 times a day because allah commands it... and the washing in preparation and the bowing down are important elements that are also required by their allah

What do the postures (standing, bowing down, prostration) mean in Islam?

I would imagine these to be the indication of submission...however I did not come to the forums to study how to be a muslim, so no I have not learned everything there is to know.

Why one ruku but two sajda in every rakah?

I think I remember reading the reason for this, but it is not information that my memory retained.

Can you name me one short surah in Quran and recite it?

I have not memorized any surah's, but then I have never in my life been able to memorize anything. I do not have that kind of mind.This I have talked about before. One of the reasons I became convinced of the Bible as the Word of God is because the Word of God is said to be 'alive and active'... it comes to live in us... and this was proven to me because, me who could never memorize anything... the scriptures they just come to me as God speaks them to me.

Or a Dua/Supplication verse from Quran or hadiths of Prophet and Ahlulbayt?

Again, no. I have only come to the forums to get to know muslims and to converse with them. I believe that is the purpose of forums... to provide a place to discuss with one another. I have picked up some general ideas of what the qur'an teaches and I mention those when my God leads me to.I actually had some very nice verses shared with me just recently that I have been meaning to write about.

Do you know, the worst person in earth is he who sells his religion to the world. But who is worse than him is the person who sells his religion to the worldly benefits of others. You are selling the understanding of religion, truth and justice to the material aims of American govt and Zionists.

I am sorry that you have such a single minded preoccupation. You are missing out on the rich tapestry that is life. You spend too much of your energy, as far as I can see, in battle, and in attacking people which there is no need to do battle with.I do not come to 'sell' anything. I am not even a particular believer in 'religion'. I tend to think all religion is a thing of man, and all are astray in one way or another from the purposes of the Creator. I do speak of my love of my Lord. I believe only in my love of God, the things Yshwe taught, and the ways in which God has been present in my life.

Peace and blessings to you,Caringheart

Edited by Caringheart - 25 August 2014 at 9:16pm

Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis

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