OSNews: http://www.osnews.com/story/25412/Apple_Using_Patents_to_Undermine_Open_Standards_Again
Exploring the Future of Computingen-usCopyright 2001-2015, David Adamsadam+nospam@osnews.comMon, 03 Aug 2015 01:24:16 GMThttp://www.osnews.com/images/osnews.gifOSNews.comhttp://www.osnews.com
Do not buy Apple stuffhttp://www.osnews.com/thread?499590
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499590The only way this company will change is if people refuse to buy their products.

I do not own one little piece of Apple hardware or software, how about you?Fri, 09 Dec 2011 23:25:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (Janvl)CommentsThe Fix.http://www.osnews.com/thread?499598
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499598So on a serious tip. How in the world do normal tech nerds with very little money and power fight back against this type of behavior by these entities? I see the EFF has been doing very good work and I am and active member and try to donate everytime I see EFF in the news. How do we get more people to get involved to change this? More people to become EFF members here in the USA and influence them into lobbying to fix this mess? How can concerned geeks get involved to at-least raise this issue? Occupy Silicon Valley? Seriously.Sat, 10 Dec 2011 00:07:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (andydread)Commentsapple is losing alreadyhttp://www.osnews.com/thread?499603
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499603Apple is losing already in the market. For once we've been seeing unprecedented drops in their pricing. In the past Apple hasn't done this with their products. Ice cream sandwich and these $100 7" capacitive tablets are taking their toll, especially where it counts most: purchases for children.Sat, 10 Dec 2011 01:35:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (bnolsen)Commentspleasehttp://www.osnews.com/thread?499604
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499604Do you ever bother to actually think through the articles you repost or is the whole rabid dog approach just irresistible?

Apple is part of the W3C. It's their *obligation* to disclose any patents (granted or filed) that may impinge on a standard. The alternative would be a submarine patent which obviously would be much worse.

As the article points out most of the disclosures don't apply to the standard and don't impact it. Apple is just making sure everyone is aware of the relevant patents it holds (it's almost certain they didn't even bother to do an in-depth analysis, they just found anything remotely relevant and disclosed it).

Also most of the patents were filed or existed years before the W3C got around to the specification so it's not like Apple was hiding them.

The ONLY thing that Apple is guilty of is not disclosing all the patents earlier in the process.

Now as I have been part of some OpenGroup WG's let me tell you none of the participants have a clue about what a recommendation or standard represents vis a vie our patents because no one in the room is a lawyer. We go talk to the lawyers later in the process and they do their thing, disclose things and whatever.

It's not all a 'sickening' conspiracy. Some of it is just the way shit gets done in the real world.Sat, 10 Dec 2011 01:39:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (kristoph)CommentsRE: apple is losing alreadyhttp://www.osnews.com/thread?499605
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499605Yeah, Apple is trouble, as demonstrated by the fact that they own the bulk of the tablet market, the bulk of the music player market, the fact that they have the #1 (iPhone 4s) the #2 (iPhone 4) and the number #3 (iPhone 3GS) smartphone in the market, their the top brand in the world, they have the highest satisfaction of any OEM, they are the number 1 company on the planet by market cap, they have the most cash of any company on the planet, yadda yadda yadda.

Their major competitors - Samsung's - argument in the US courts recently was that the design patent violations were not harming Apple because Apple was already making as many devices as they could sell!!!

You need to really ease off on the kool-aid.Sat, 10 Dec 2011 01:48:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (kristoph)CommentsRE: Do not buy Apple stuffhttp://www.osnews.com/thread?499607
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499607Good for you sir. You are person of integrity. If you don't like a company, don't buy their stuff. Anything else is hypocrisy.Sat, 10 Dec 2011 01:52:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (kristoph)CommentsWowhttp://www.osnews.com/thread?499612
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499612Thought this was OSnews? Now it's become the bash apple site. Microsoft is doing the same stuff and has been for years and yet no bashing there (but for me). But Apple? Bash, bash, bash.

Very interesting is all I can say.Sat, 10 Dec 2011 02:08:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (Windows Sucks)CommentsRE: Wowhttp://www.osnews.com/thread?499619
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499619

Thought this was OSnews? Now it's become the bash apple site. Microsoft is doing the same stuff and has been for years and yet no bashing there (but for me). But Apple? Bash, bash, bash.

I'd agree so far as I think Microsoft generally gets off easy here on OSNews, however it doesn't change my opinion that Apple is getting what they deserve.Sat, 10 Dec 2011 03:22:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (Valhalla)CommentsDo buy Apple stuff!!!http://www.osnews.com/thread?499621
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499621Me?... I (and my wife and three kids) own, 1 iPod Mini (which I still use in my car for audiobooks), 6 ipod nanos, 4 iPod touch's, 2 PowerMacs, 3 iMacs, 1 Macbook, 2 AppleTVs and I am about to purchase 5 iPhones... one for me, the wife and kids. (my nephew works for sprint so 5 phones with unlimited data planes ~$200/month) Not to mention ~$250 in movies, $150 per year in TV shows (no cable or satellite). So I give Apple good business, They give me great products, easy to use... and I still get my BSD command line!!! can't ask for more. Oh ya!, and I purchased AAPL at $12.22 a share in 2001 and am retiring off this in a few months at 52... I figure I made about 50 fold more then I've spent...

KRREdited 2011-12-10 03:32 UTCSat, 10 Dec 2011 03:31:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (krreagan)CommentsRE[2]: apple is losing alreadyhttp://www.osnews.com/thread?499637
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499637He doesn't say Apple is in trouble. Apple is losing their death grip on markets. Any device maker can get a free OS with the highest marketshare to make anything they want: smartphone, tv, mp3player, tablet. It has also become very easy to integrate wireless connectivity in these devices so you don't have to connect them to a pc anymore. Which means you can use an itunes competitor on the web like amazon or any other cloud service.

So Apple will be playing on a level playing field. Let's see how well they will do.Edited 2011-12-10 06:35 UTCSat, 10 Dec 2011 06:35:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (Fergy)CommentsRE: Wowhttp://www.osnews.com/thread?499643
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499643

Thought this was OSnews? Now it's become the bash apple site. Microsoft is doing the same stuff and has been for years and yet no bashing there (but for me). But Apple? Bash, bash, bash.

Very interesting is all I can say.

Operating system news is a special interest topic, it doesn't generate many hits... Bashing Apple will shift your hit count by orders of magnitude, and high hit counts mean more Ad revenue... Thom is just protecting the site's revenue stream... At least we still get the odd snippet of OSNews here and there, so that's nice Sat, 10 Dec 2011 09:52:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (bloodline)CommentsRE[2]: Wowhttp://www.osnews.com/thread?499644
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499644Every time Thom pisses off Gruber enough to link to OSNews, I expect they make a tonne of money from ad revenue. So far, he's done that twice in the last few months. Plus, Apple is easy to bash, because they are the current pet hate of many techies and seem to be able to do regrettable actions and practices at the drop of a hat. *shrugs*Sat, 10 Dec 2011 10:11:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (henderson101)CommentsRE[2]: Wowhttp://www.osnews.com/thread?499646
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499646

"Thought this was OSnews? Now it's become the bash apple site. Microsoft is doing the same stuff and has been for years and yet no bashing there (but for me). But Apple? Bash, bash, bash.

Very interesting is all I can say.

Operating system news is a special interest topic, it doesn't generate many hits... Bashing Apple will shift your hit count by orders of magnitude, and high hit counts mean more Ad revenue... Thom is just protecting the site's revenue stream... At least we still get the odd snippet of OSNews here and there, so that's nice "

Every time Thom pisses off Gruber enough to link to OSNews, I expect they make a tonne of money from ad revenue. So far, he's done that twice in the last few months.

Sorry, but no. Just for laughs, I just checked our analytics software, and Gruber doesn't even register on our radar. If you have ~400000 unique visitors per month, Gruber doesn't really affect you all that much.

Also, we don't make a lot of money, you know. Those few ads we do have aren't making us rich, not by a long shot. We can keep the site running, and that's about it.

Plus, Apple is easy to bash, because they are the current pet hate of many techies and seem to be able to do regrettable actions and practices at the drop of a hat. *shrugs*

If you act like a dick, don't be surprised if someone calls you a dick.Sat, 10 Dec 2011 10:34:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (Thom_Holwerda)CommentsRE[3]: Wowhttp://www.osnews.com/thread?499649
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499649

Every time Thom pisses off Gruber enough to link to OSNews, I expect they make a tonne of money from ad revenue. So far, he's done that twice in the last few months. Plus, Apple is easy to bash, because they are the current pet hate of many techies and seem to be able to do regrettable actions and practices at the drop of a hat. *shrugs*

I doubt OSNews makes much money (I know from my own ad revenue), but it would be much lower without us arguing about Apple.

Apple are no better or worse than any of the big tech companies, but they trade on PR (how else do you compete in a commodity market?) so everything they do is high profile.Sat, 10 Dec 2011 11:00:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (bloodline)CommentsRE[4]: Wowhttp://www.osnews.com/thread?499653
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499653I should add that, OSNews is still a valuable place! Due to an article posted here I made contact with A guy called Jonathan Schleifer who's framework software looks like it might be perfect for certain projects I'm involved it!

My point is it's the noise that keeps this place going, and let's the signal come through.Sat, 10 Dec 2011 11:06:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (bloodline)CommentsRE: Wowhttp://www.osnews.com/thread?499658
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499658

Now it's become the bash apple site. Microsoft is doing the same stuff and has been for years and yet no bashing there (but for me). But Apple? Bash, bash, bash.

Sorry to say, I do not like MS either. I build my own machine, run Kubuntu on it and I hate MS for what they did to the web, I am still confronted with websites build with frontpage 4, trying to explain people that it is a dead end.

Apple is part of the W3C. It's their *obligation* to disclose any patents (granted or filed) that may impinge on a standard. The alternative would be a submarine patent which obviously would be much worse.

The alternative would be to not file the claim. Like everyone else is doing.

As the article points out most of the disclosures don't apply to the standard and don't impact it. Apple is just making sure everyone is aware of the relevant patents it holds (it's almost certain they didn't even bother to do an in-depth analysis, they just found anything remotely relevant and disclosed it).

Actually, they are saying "these are our patents, and we're going to enforce them."

Also most of the patents were filed or existed years before the W3C got around to the specification so it's not like Apple was hiding them.

Thought this was OSnews? Now it's become the bash apple site. Microsoft is doing the same stuff and has been for years and yet no bashing there (but for me). But Apple? Bash, bash, bash.

So this makes it acceptable for Apple to behave like this?Sat, 10 Dec 2011 13:41:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (PresentIt)CommentsRE: Wowhttp://www.osnews.com/thread?499665
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499665

Thought this was OSnews? Now it's become the bash apple site. Microsoft is doing the same stuff and has been for years and yet no bashing there (but for me). But Apple? Bash, bash, bash.

Very interesting is all I can say.

Last time I checked Thom was an equal opportunity basher; when Microsoft and Apple didn't get behind WebM he equally called them both out on the matter so Thom is hardly inconsistent - he'll praise a company when it needs to be praised and bashed when it deserves to be bashed.

For me Apple is just like every other company out there; good, bad and ugly all mixed up and what you see out there is what you get.Sat, 10 Dec 2011 13:45:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (kaiwai)CommentsRE[2]: pleasehttp://www.osnews.com/thread?499666
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499666And Adobe, Microsoft and others aren't complete and utter c-nts? Adobe and their sabotaging HTML5 at every opportunity, Firefox claiming to support standards only to either fail to implement them properly or if they do so but in a broken way thus making use of the standard completely pointless. Sorry but undermining open standards is a game that all the players in the IT market partake in - the question is how blind are you towards the companies that you cheerlead for.Sat, 10 Dec 2011 13:50:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (kaiwai)CommentsRE: Do buy Apple stuff!!!http://www.osnews.com/thread?499678
http://www.osnews.com/thread?49967852?
You come off sounding like a 23 year old bellâend.

Youâve done well on the stock market buying a company when it was just leaving rock bottom prices. Be thankful for that in itself.Sat, 10 Dec 2011 17:35:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (Beta)CommentsRE[2]: Wowhttp://www.osnews.com/thread?499685
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499685

" Now it's become the bash apple site. Microsoft is doing the same stuff and has been for years and yet no bashing there (but for me). But Apple? Bash, bash, bash.

But, . . . that does not make Apple any better. "

Right. My point was not if Apple was right or wrong or indifferent. My point was that ALL is see is Apple is evil on here now. Not Google when they do crazy stuff or Microsoft when they do crazy stuff.

On some days (Like yesterday) you will have 3 4 stories about how Apple is the devil. Really? Its a company like any other. Almost all companies do dirt. Google included.Sat, 10 Dec 2011 18:48:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (Windows Sucks)CommentsRE: Wowhttp://www.osnews.com/thread?499690
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499690

Thought this was OSnews? Now it's become the bash apple site. Microsoft is doing the same stuff and has been for years and yet no bashing there (but for me). But Apple? Bash, bash, bash.

Very interesting is all I can say.

I think the difference between Apple and MS is the just the shear level of hypocrisy you get from Apple, somehow MS just seems more honestly evil.Sat, 10 Dec 2011 19:36:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (Gone fishing)CommentsRE[2]: Wowhttp://www.osnews.com/thread?499702
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499702

"Thought this was OSnews? Now it's become the bash apple site. Microsoft is doing the same stuff and has been for years and yet no bashing there (but for me). But Apple? Bash, bash, bash. Very interesting is all I can say.

Last time I checked Thom was an equal opportunity basher; when Microsoft and Apple didn't get behind WebM he equally called them both out on the matter so Thom is hardly inconsistent - he'll praise a company when it needs to be praised and bashed when it deserves to be bashed. For me Apple is just like every other company out there; good, bad and ugly all mixed up and what you see out there is what you get. "

Quite right, he has called out others... But he totally missed all the hot patent action happening with HTC and some other patent troll stuff... So many of us get a bit bored with his constant interest in Apple.Edited 2011-12-10 20:47 UTCSat, 10 Dec 2011 20:46:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (bloodline)CommentsComment by KLU9http://www.osnews.com/thread?499704
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499704Opera and web standards... [crickets, tumbleweed]

Opera and web standards... AND APPLE AND MOTHERF#@KING PATENTS!!!1!1111eleventyone! [dozens of comments]

oh well, c'est la vieSat, 10 Dec 2011 20:48:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (KLU9)CommentsRE: Do not buy Apple stuffhttp://www.osnews.com/thread?499716
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499716Right now 6.
2 Macs, 1 iPad, 1 iPhone, 1 iPod and 1 Airport Extreme.
I bought the iPad 2 as a replacement for my original iPad and the iPhone 4S as replacement for my iPhone 3G. I'm considering one more Mac to keep at the lab, what do you recommend?Edited 2011-12-10 21:39 UTCSat, 10 Dec 2011 21:35:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (Hussein)CommentsRE[2]: Do not buy Apple stuffhttp://www.osnews.com/thread?499719
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499719The lists of Apple stuff bought, sounds a bit like "mine is bigger then yours".

I never understood and will never understand these people, consider them the ultimate polluters.
Have a glimps at http://phonestory.org/Sat, 10 Dec 2011 22:16:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (Janvl)CommentsRE: Do not buy Apple stuffhttp://www.osnews.com/thread?499754
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499754

The only way this company will change is if people refuse to buy their products.

I do not own one little piece of Apple hardware or software, how about you?

I never bought anything from Apple and never will.

I've been free from Microsoft/Apple and I've been using Linux for the last 12 years, and it feels great!

So long Microsoft/Apple.Edited 2011-12-11 04:24 UTCSun, 11 Dec 2011 04:18:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (diegoviola)CommentsComment by shmerlhttp://www.osnews.com/thread?499758
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499758These kind of activities should cause normal people to stay away from anything associated with Apple, MS and other similar groups which fight open standards for the sake if their profits.Sun, 11 Dec 2011 04:39:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (shmerl)CommentsRE: Do not buy Apple stuffhttp://www.osnews.com/thread?499759
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499759Agreed. They deserve being boycotted by any honest person.Sun, 11 Dec 2011 04:42:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (shmerl)CommentsRE[4]: Wowhttp://www.osnews.com/thread?499761
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499761

If you act like a dick, don't be surprised if someone calls you a dick.

In this case though Thom, only a certain blogger is acting like a dick.Sun, 11 Dec 2011 05:17:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (kristoph)CommentsRE[3]: Wowhttp://www.osnews.com/thread?499815
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499815

My point was that ALL is see is Apple is evil on here now.

Pure and utter BS.

On some days (Like yesterday) you will have 3 4 stories about how Apple is the devil.

Your attempt at defending Apple is just embarrassing and pathetic. You want people to stop criticizing Apple because Apple does so much evil shit anyway, so that's why it's wrong to cover them when they do evil shit?

Give me a break.

If Apple had stopped doing evil shit all the time they wouldn't be called out on it either.Sun, 11 Dec 2011 14:08:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (PresentIt)CommentsRE[5]: Wowhttp://www.osnews.com/thread?499816
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499816

In this case though Thom, only a certain blogger is acting like a dick.

But he totally missed all the hot patent action happening with HTC and some other patent troll stuff...

What was that? Do you have a link?

So many of us get a bit bored with his constant interest in Apple.

You don't get it, do you? Apple is huge. When Apple does something, it has a huge impact on the market. It's natural that one of the most powerful companies on the planet are scrutinized. In fact, it's a good thing.Sun, 11 Dec 2011 14:12:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (PresentIt)CommentsRE: Comment by KLU9http://www.osnews.com/thread?499819
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499819WTF? Are you drunk or something?Sun, 11 Dec 2011 14:15:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (PresentIt)CommentsRE[5]: Wowhttp://www.osnews.com/thread?499837
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499837Just like Transparency International are dicks when they point out corruption and lack of public office transparency...Sun, 11 Dec 2011 16:38:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (JAlexoid)CommentsRE[2]: apple is losing alreadyhttp://www.osnews.com/thread?499843
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499843

the fact that they have the #1 (iPhone 4s) the #2 (iPhone 4) and the number #3 (iPhone 3GS) smartphone in the market

US market.
The world is a bit bigger than US.Sun, 11 Dec 2011 17:23:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (phoudoin)CommentsRE[3]: Wowhttp://www.osnews.com/thread?499867
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499867

"the fact that they have the #1 (iPhone 4s) the #2 (iPhone 4) and the number #3 (iPhone 3GS) smartphone in the market

US market.
The world is a bit bigger than US. "

Company UK with 12 employees. 1 techie, the rest are consumers. We have, 5 iPhones, 1 Windows phone 7, 1 Android, 3 blackberries, 2 Nokia dumb phones. 2 of those iPhones were bought in the last 2 months. Windows 7 phone was a "good sales man", and Blackberry users would likely go IPhone or Android on their next phone.

This is pretty much the experience I've had in general. People who identify with business seem to go Backberry. People who are looking for a cheap phone end up with Android or Windows Phone 7, people who avoid modernity have old school phones. Everyone else has an iPhone.Sun, 11 Dec 2011 21:08:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (henderson101)CommentsRE[2]: apple is losing alreadyhttp://www.osnews.com/thread?499869
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499869

This is pretty much the experience I've had in general. People who identify with business seem to go Backberry. People who are looking for a cheap phone end up with Android or Windows Phone 7, people who avoid modernity have old school phones. Everyone else has an iPhone.

Yes, because your "personal experience" is valid for everyone, everywhere, in the entire world!

I think he was referring to when HTC bought out S3 (technically both are owned by the same people so it was a matter of re-arranging the chairs on the deck). The argument one could make is that HTC only bought out S3 to screw over Apple.

You don't get it, do you? Apple is huge. When Apple does something, it has a huge impact on the market. It's natural that one of the most powerful companies on the planet are scrutinized. In fact, it's a good thing.

True, and if he doesn't like it he can always avoid those stories - there are lots of uninteresting stories on OSNews.com which I ignore but I'm sure are really interesting to other readers. One of the things I do find funny are the number of people who run from Apple to Microsoft then to Sun Microsystems then back to Microsoft then over to Linux then back to Microsoft again - looking for someone or something they can put in a pedestal and worship like a deity. Whether you're running Windows, Mac OS X or some other platform the parent company will always do a mixture of good, bad and ugly - this idea of injecting so much emotional investment into owning a computer seems a little strange from my point of view.Mon, 12 Dec 2011 01:08:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (kaiwai)CommentsThank you, Apple,http://www.osnews.com/thread?499939
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499939for showing once again what patents can do.

As they say in my town: don't blame the pig, blame the pig farmer. Apple and Microsoft are just using the legal tools they have. Outrage and boycotts will teach them to be more subtle, but the underlying problem will remain.

Of course, Google can afford to play the "good guy" because they have their crown jewels well hidden in their servers.Mon, 12 Dec 2011 18:18:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (wannabe geek)CommentsRE[5]: Wowhttp://www.osnews.com/thread?499944
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499944

I think he was referring to when HTC bought out S3 (technically both are owned by the same people so it was a matter of re-arranging the chairs on the deck). The argument one could make is that HTC only bought out S3 to screw over Apple.

It was Apple that sued HTC first, if I am not mistaken. So Apple tried to screw over HTC. HTC, then, bought S3 to defend itself, not to screw anyone over (did they start using these patents against anyone else?).Mon, 12 Dec 2011 19:39:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (PresentIt)CommentsRE: Thank you, Apple,http://www.osnews.com/thread?499953
http://www.osnews.com/thread?499953That if you assume it's normal for everyone to be a pig. A rather morbid view. I'd say differently to them - don't be a pig.Edited 2011-12-12 23:06 UTCMon, 12 Dec 2011 23:05:00 GMTdonotreply@osnews.com (shmerl)Comments