Rename this thread and start a proper one? I'm no Conservative but even I can't see the use in taking Cameron's words out of context like that. He is clearly addressing extremism, and he's right - there's no legal basis for someone who lives in the UK, draws from our collective resources, and hates our very way of being and is happy to encourage others to destroy or damage it, to be restrained. But steps need to be taken to counter this kind of hate, because it is damaging.

In lieu of something else better to talk about, let's start off by [DISCUSSING] the point Dan raised above:

David Cameron was widely mocked for suggesting the security services should begin to police even those who 'obey the law,' but proponents say those with extreme 'anti-Western' views ought to be a valid target. Should the security services do more to curb extreme ideologies, or does this constitute a violation of freedom of speech?

Dan. wrote:Rename this thread and start a proper one? I'm no Conservative but even I can't see the use in taking Cameron's words out of context like that. He is clearly addressing extremism, and he's right - there's no legal basis for someone who lives in the UK, draws from our collective resources, and hates our very way of being and is happy to encourage others to destroy or damage it, to be restrained. But steps need to be taken to counter this kind of hate, because it is damaging.

Rocsteady wrote:There is no context in which Cameron can say that and it does not come across authoritarian.

It's a scary thought and I can imagine the Tories being secretly quite happy to let the country slowly become a police state with a wealthy ruling class and an empoverished working class.

The terrifying thing is most people already have the "if you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about" attitude, what happens when things like freedom of speech and the right to criticize government policies become the 'wrong' things?

Ironhide wrote:The terrifying thing is most people already have the "if you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about" attitude, what happens when things like freedom of speech and the right to criticize government policies become the 'wrong' things?

Can't help but think of all the stuff I've read/watched by Glenn Greenwald when I read this.

I might not have anything to hide, but I certainly want to take a gooseberry fool with the bathroom door shut.

Rocsteady wrote:There is no context in which Cameron can say that and it does not come across authoritarian.

It's a scary thought and I can imagine the Tories being secretly quite happy to let the country slowly become a police state with a wealthy ruling class and an empoverished working class.

The terrifying thing is most people already have the "if you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about" attitude, what happens when things like freedom of speech and the right to criticize government policies become the 'wrong' things?

I had a mate who had that attitude. I then asked him if I could read his text messages and look at his photos. "No, they're private" he said. There you go...

I'm not opposed to a certain degree of surveillance by the police/MI5 to help keep the streets safe for the general public but there has to be a line drawn somewhere to prevent our basic civil rights being slowly eroded in the name of 'safety'.

Ironhide wrote:I'm not opposed to a certain degree of surveillance by the police/MI5 to help keep the streets safe for the general public but there has to be a line drawn somewhere to prevent our basic civil rights being slowly eroded in the name of 'safety'.

That's pretty much where I stand on the issue. I don't mind CCTV on the streets as I have no expectation of privacy when I am walking down the road.

Phone calls/email/etc should not be snooped on for no reason. If the police have a decent suspicion that somebody is a wrong 'un and they can convince a judge of that, then it is fine to snoop.

All those people who say "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" are idiots. There are countless examples around the world and through history that prove that to be a load of bollocks.

The most totalitarian thing being done by the current government is the latest bill on trade unions, which violates free assembly and speech laws. Also, generally leaders in democracies do not attempt to deliberately bankrupt their only opposition. It's considered rude.