I am 100% P&T (mental health), can I start work without concerning of a possible re-eval or reduction?

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PEB Forum Regular Member

I wouldn't worry to much then, if you could only can see what the military unit command did to me and my medical records would make your situation look like small potatoes. In fact, I even tried to post up before on a forum about it and people called me out like I am a liar. Yeah, because it was that bad, it is unbelievable. You are in a situation that can be corrected if you work hard at it as previous advise has pointed out, but that is entirely up to you.

How can it be corrected?? 3 doctors opinions versus my word? The doctors opion that influenced my commander to recommend removal? I can’t do anything. At least you understand how much records are manipulated, mine were the reverse of what most people endure, but for me it is much more impactful. I could be working in London on 80k tax free contract, i could be in Iraq making 120k, I could start out as a GS-11 in the 0132 field with my masters and TS/experience. But nope. I’m stuck taking a term job that I just might get if I’m lucky and they don’t look at my past clearance getting revoked. So what options do is have? Go back to school? I have up to a Master’s already, all geared towards a career in what I did in the military, but now useless. Or just live a bs life off of disability and whatever measly civilian job I can get, because all my service was thrown out the door.

My proof of nexus was the evidence in my medical records, as it has been for many claimants. You previously made a broad statement that implied that a disability that presented itself years later could not be proven. At least that was my inference.

If evidence is missing from the military medical or other military records , I do not know how the nexus could be proven, except for
diseases that are presumptively caused by exposure to certain toxins. I wish the best of luck to those who face the challenges of proving a nexus when the info in military records is limited.

Well-Known Member

How can it be corrected?? 3 doctors opinions versus my word? The doctors opion that influenced my commander to recommend removal? I can’t do anything. At least you understand how much records are manipulated, mine were the reverse of what most people endure, but for me it is much more impactful. I could be working in London on 80k tax free contract, i could be in Iraq making 120k, I could start out as a GS-11 in the 0132 field with my masters and TS/experience. But nope. I’m stuck taking a term job that I just might get if I’m lucky and they don’t look at my past clearance getting revoked. So what options do is have? Go back to school? I have up to a Master’s already, all geared towards a career in what I did in the military, but now useless. Or just live a bs life off of disability and whatever measly civilian job I can get, because all my service was thrown out the door.

I don't know what to tell you other then what I had recommended to you prior. I have been trying to unscrew my records before the BCMR for five years straight and have so much compelling evidence to support my case it is criminal it hasn't all been amended and corrective actions taken fully in my favor. Anything and everything anyone could imagine that could go wrong in the MEB process had occurred to me. So many wrongs that anyone with an IQ of a monkey would be able to identify something seriously wrong and those in respective positions take corrective action - fix it. Your worried about your TS, my records were altered with lies and like you, acquiring the approval of fully vested TS intel type of work, with how bad things were done nobody wants tot touch me - but they were all lies. You are not the only one to have been screwed. I have just been trying to prove that and have but its like I am singing to the wall. There is a serious problem in the military where people can destroy your life if they want to, trust me, I know.

New Member

Here is the thing though, they took my security clearance, they took my security clearance, they took my security clearance!!! Only .01% of clearances are taken from a mental health diagnosis.

Given what I did in the military, my career has been completely destroyed outside the military as well and I also can’t get most GS jobs, I can’t work in law enforcement (my undergrad degree was geared towards that) I can’t be a commercial pilot, I can’t be a firefighter, I can’t be an investigator, I can’t be a truck driver or heavy equipment operator. Any job that I want to do, I can’t. My service was highly invalidated between the diagnosis and the my clearance being pulled. You say people with 100% rating shouldn’t be working? Yeah sure, but the government also should not be influencing doctors to conduct malpractice and destroy people’s lives.

Do I think my rating is too high? In a sense, I don’t believe what was written of me by the military docs was accurate and was inflated. There was an obvious agenda to get me kicked out and lose my clearance, military docs, not me, wrote all kinds of falsehoods about my condition. They also gave me a diagnosis before the timeframe of the diagnosis had passed and then held me in the hospital to meet the criteria. The agenda was blatantly obvious. There is no way I’m going to try to reduce my rating, my life has been absolutely destroyed from all of this. Also, I was followed by the gov to my first job, where they leaked information to my co-workers about my deployment and health information which made them harass and sabatoge me. I lost that job because of it.

Either I am actually batshit crazy or the gov did what I thought they did and sabatoged my second career path. In either case I SHOULD be compensated.

I have received a proposed rating of 100% for Bipolar Disorder with psychotic features. I was inpatient for about 2 weeks and during that time I definitely developed some type of "conspiracy" theory I guess you could call it that the government is out to get me, maybe its still a little of the psychotic features talking but I can understand where you're coming from. I have had my clearance taken away as well. Personally, I'm just trying to put this whole thing behind me and start completely new. My original career field is communications and I actually plan on going to dog training school.

PEB Forum Regular Member

I have received a proposed rating of 100% for Bipolar Disorder with psychotic features. I was inpatient for about 2 weeks and during that time I definitely developed some type of "conspiracy" theory I guess you could call it that the government is out to get me, maybe its still a little of the psychotic features talking but I can understand where you're coming from. I have had my clearance taken away as well. Personally, I'm just trying to put this whole thing behind me and start completely new. My original career field is communications and I actually plan on going to dog training school.

I think once the gov decided they want you out and clearance gone, it’s gonna happen, and there is diff conspiracy involved. At least the VA compensates somewhat for the loss. I’m glad you are putting it behind you, I am too, it’s just hard to know what to do next.

PEB Forum Regular Member

I don't know what to tell you other then what I had recommended to you prior. I have been trying to unscrew my records before the BCMR for five years straight and have so much compelling evidence to support my case it is criminal it hasn't all been amended and corrective actions taken fully in my favor. Anything and everything anyone could imagine that could go wrong in the MEB process had occurred to me. So many wrongs that anyone with an IQ of a monkey would be able to identify something seriously wrong and those in respective positions take corrective action - fix it. Your worried about your TS, my records were altered with lies and like you, acquiring the approval of fully vested TS intel type of work, with how bad things were done nobody wants tot touch me - but they were all lies. You are not the only one to have been screwed. I have just been trying to prove that and have but its like I am singing to the wall. There is a serious problem in the military where people can destroy your life if they want to, trust me, I know.

That’s what my research has come up with as well, it seems entirely pointless to fight it, it would likely result in me having my percentage lowered some, but not get my clearance back or still do any of the other jobs I’m interested in.

I am a little confused here and perhaps it's just me reading it wrong but I want to try and answer your original question of "can I work." I originally thought you were rated 100% Permanent and Total via a scheduler rating. But you then asked what "substantially gainful employment" meant. Do you have a VA rating of 100% via TDIU? or a 100% rating based on the Schedule of Ratings for Mental Health conditions?

To answer your question, the VA defines "substantially gainful employment" as, "Substantially gainful employment is employment that is ordinarily followed by the nondisabled to earn their livelihood with earnings common to the particular occupation in the community where the veteran resides." Generally, this means working with an income below the poverty threshold is not considered substantially gainful employment. Also, working in a "sheltered work environment" is not considered gainful employment.

On the other side of the coin, if you were rated 100% via a scheduler rating by the VA, this means the VA found your mental health condition has caused "Total occupational and social impairment..." While there is nothing specifically that says you can't work, working in most cases would run contrary to the Rating Schedule that you're 100% disability was granted under.

PEB Forum Regular Member

I am a little confused here and perhaps it's just me reading it wrong but I want to try and answer your original question of "can I work." I originally thought you were rated 100% Permanent and Total via a scheduler rating. But you then asked what "substantially gainful employment" meant. Do you have a VA rating of 100% via TDIU? or a 100% rating based on the Schedule of Ratings for Mental Health conditions?

To answer your question, the VA defines "substantially gainful employment" as, "Substantially gainful employment is employment that is ordinarily followed by the nondisabled to earn their livelihood with earnings common to the particular occupation in the community where the veteran resides." Generally, this means working with an income below the poverty threshold is not considered substantially gainful employment. Also, working in a "sheltered work environment" is not considered gainful employment.

On the other side of the coin, if you were rated 100% via a scheduler rating by the VA, this means the VA found your mental health condition has caused "Total occupational and social impairment..." While there is nothing specifically that says you can't work, working in most cases would run contrary to the Rating Schedule that you're 100% disability was granted under.

I understand what are saying, there is also the fact that my security clearance was stripped and it ruined my career on the outside as well. I had a bad mental break at my first job(I still swear the gov followed me and forced people to harass me).
I also believe my initial diagnosis was inflated by the military docs as they wanted to make sure I lost my clearance. While I don’t negate that o certainly has exp some psychosis, the way the wrote my Narsum made me sound fit for a strait jacket for life.

Anyways I am P&T scheduler. I don’t really understand how I got the rating that quick, but it happened. Not working for me is the worse thing for me. Working is ext therapeutic. The first few weeks I did struggle with delusional thoughts, and returned to drinking, but I’m slowly moving past it.

The job I have now, vrs what I did in the military isn’t even close to as stressful. I’m sure that makes a diff, as my symptoms come out only under stress and sleep deprivation. If I get re-evaluated at some point, so be it, I would rather try to be successful again then ruminate on my military failure. I think I will just die if I don’t work, sitting at home is terrible for me.

PEB Forum Regular Member

I understand what are saying, there is also the fact that my security clearance was stripped and it ruined my career on the outside as well. I had a bad mental break at my first job(I still swear the gov followed me and forced people to harass me).
I also believe my initial diagnosis was inflated by the military docs as they wanted to make sure I lost my clearance. While I don’t negate that o certainly has exp some psychosis, the way the wrote my Narsum made me sound fit for a strait jacket for life.

Anyways I am P&T scheduler. I don’t really understand how I got the rating that quick, but it happened. Not working for me is the worse thing for me. Working is ext therapeutic. The first few weeks I did struggle with delusional thoughts, and returned to drinking, but I’m slowly moving past it.

The job I have now, vrs what I did in the military isn’t even close to as stressful. I’m sure that makes a diff, as my symptoms come out only under stress and sleep deprivation. If I get re-evaluated at some point, so be it, I would rather try to be successful again then ruminate on my military failure. I think I will just die if I don’t work, sitting at home is terrible for me.

If you believe you were rated in error, you could write your VA regional office and ask them for a re-evaluation. I can’t think of a single thing you gain by doing this, aside from ensuring the taxpayers are compensating you the correct amount commensurate with your condition, but it is an option.

PEB Forum Regular Member

If you believe you were rated in error, you could write your VA regional office and ask them for a re-evaluation. I can’t think of a single thing you gain by doing this, aside from ensuring the taxpayers are compensating you the correct amount commensurate with your condition, but it is an option.

I can’t see any gain either, if it gave me the ability to get my clearance and career back, it would be worth it, but if the gov intentionally decided to influence doctors to commit malpractice to force me to lose my clearance/career/well being, then I feel no guilt in taking the compensation. I am also 100% sure they followed me to my first job after the military, spread information about my deployment and medical history to my co-workers, which resulted in endless harassment and sabatoge. Information that was twisted and bias. I ended up having a seizure from all the harassment and sabatoge.

I’ve been fortunate as of late, I was very mistreated on my way out, had hospital staff stealing stuff from me, harassing me, trying to get me to break the UCMJ. I tried to end things after separation, the whole thing was a nightmare. Things are finally starting to look better.

Well-Known Member

I can’t see any gain either, if it gave me the ability to get my clearance and career back, it would be worth it, but if the gov intentionally decided to influence doctors to commit malpractice to force me to lose my clearance/career/well being, then I feel no guilt in taking the compensation. I am also 100% sure they followed me to my first job after the military, spread information about my deployment and medical history to my co-workers, which resulted in endless harassment and sabatoge. Information that was twisted and bias. I ended up having a seizure from all the harassment and sabatoge.

I’ve been fortunate as of late, I was very mistreated on my way out, had hospital staff stealing stuff from me, harassing me, trying to get me to break the UCMJ. I tried to end things after separation, the whole thing was a nightmare. Things are finally starting to look better.

Look, I believe you and it isn't some mental condition. I was forced off a medical board because my command did not want to admit to their wrongdoings of injured troops and it went so far what they did to hide it (inserting false medical addendum's and such) that labeled myself and others; the VA took hold of it and it took me a few years to realize it (you don't get those records to review when exiting). Here they were taking context out of illegal remarks from service and acting on those, everything I went in for, treatment, etc. was as if I was a liar to them and it was completely wrong, I was in really bad shape and you bet it rolled over to raters and back and forth through the VHA. Terrible what I had been through. However, through my over decade of experience with all of this. You need to convince the VA otherwise, tell them what happened how it was wrong and have proof. I went in telling war stories and how I needed hep for injuries and there is nothing in my records at all, you have any idea how hard that was to prove and took years and years of correcting records. My DD214 looked like I barely deployed anywhere and I am telling them I was in war, injured, etc. For me it is beyond people's belief to even think this is even imaginable but it was and that is the truth. I also had a Q clearance but dropped and popped back and forth and I can't get into any of those detail but I will tell you that I know first hand how bad it is to be screwed by people because they want to cover up their $sses. More and more of this is coming out nowadays and those issues are being corrected.

PEB Forum Regular Member

Look, I believe you and it isn't some mental condition. I was forced off a medical board because my command did not want to admit to their wrongdoings of injured troops and it went so far what they did to hide it (inserting false medical addendum's and such) that labeled myself and others; the VA took hold of it and it took me a few years to realize it (you don't get those records to review when exiting). Here they were taking context out of illegal remarks from service and acting on those, everything I went in for, treatment, etc. was as if I was a liar to them and it was completely wrong, I was in really bad shape and you bet it rolled over to raters and back and forth through the VHA. Terrible what I had been through. However, through my over decade of experience with all of this. You need to convince the VA otherwise, tell them what happened how it was wrong and have proof. I went in telling war stories and how I needed hep for injuries and there is nothing in my records at all, you have any idea how hard that was to prove and took years and years of correcting records. My DD214 looked like I barely deployed anywhere and I am telling them I was in war, injured, etc. For me it is beyond people's belief to even think this is even imaginable but it was and that is the truth. I also had a Q clearance but dropped and popped back and forth and I can't get into any of those detail but I will tell you that I know first hand how bad it is to be screwed by people because they want to cover up their $sses. More and more of this is coming out nowadays and those issues are being corrected.

I can’t say I didn’t experience any mental issues, because I did, I exp psychosis after 5 days of sleep deprivation, then the subsequent treatment on the way out made me paranoid for a long time after. Whether that paranoia was true mental illness, I don’t know. I went into deep depression after separation and formed some anxiety as well. I personally think was a result of the injustices and how I was treated on the way out, then all of a sudden living back home, living with parents, avoiding everyone I know etc. That first job out something very strange happened, I am sure the gov was involved(what agency I don’t know). Problem is there is no way to prove any of it. My medical records are a mile high, there is no way I could turn it around to where it would be a point to try and fight it. I’m never getting my clearance back, I’ll never work in the career field I did in the military.

I found luckily a GS job I can do with no clearance necessary, low sensitivity etc...but also has some relevancy to my experiences and degrees, so in the moment I’m feeling pretty happy and fortunate. I thought for sure I would not be able to get any Fed job, I thought I really got lucky as I was basically an emergency hire as they were in desperate need of someone for the position. They probably waived a good portion of the br as my last reinvestigation was still good. I started the job 3 weeks after the interview, which is ext fast for a gov job.

Anyways, I do still take meds for depression/anxiety and I don’t wanna drop it now as it helps me think positively and helps with anxiety, which in turns helps me perform better. No I don’t think what was written was truth, but to say I had no mental problems is not true either.

Yes, things are finally looking to move on a positive direction after two years of hell and nearly ending my life. I’m going to keep taking meds, I think they actual help. As far as counselling, I don’t think it helps me much and the most therapeutic thing for me is working, staying busy, exercise etc. Not working is terrible for my mental health.

Well-Known Member

I can’t say I didn’t experience any mental issues, because I did, I exp psychosis after 5 days of sleep deprivation, then the subsequent treatment on the way out made me paranoid for a long time after. Whether that paranoia was true mental illness, I don’t know. I went into deep depression after separation and formed some anxiety as well. I personally think was a result of the injustices and how I was treated on the way out, then all of a sudden living back home, living with parents, avoiding everyone I know etc. That first job out something very strange happened, I am sure the gov was involved(what agency I don’t know). Problem is there is no way to prove any of it. My medical records are a mile high, there is no way I could turn it around to where it would be a point to try and fight it. I’m never getting my clearance back, I’ll never work in the career field I did in the military.

I found luckily a GS job I can do with no clearance necessary, low sensitivity etc...but also has some relevancy to my experiences and degrees, so in the moment I’m feeling pretty happy and fortunate. I thought for sure I would not be able to get any Fed job, I thought I really got lucky as I was basically an emergency hire as they were in desperate need of someone for the position. They probably waived a good portion of the br as my last reinvestigation was still good. I started the job 3 weeks after the interview, which is ext fast for a gov job.

Anyways, I do still take meds for depression/anxiety and I don’t wanna drop it now as it helps me think positively and helps with anxiety, which in turns helps me perform better. No I don’t think what was written was truth, but to say I had no mental problems is not true either.

I didn't sleep for thirty days straight in Afghanistan, only 5 minutes here or there barely. That may sound unbelievable but it isn't, I was dropped in probably the most dangerous part of earth at that time and in any direction could be death. Your mind starts playing games with you.

PEB Forum Regular Member

Not typical especially if you are 100% P&T and not IU. It's that some believe it's unethical because a maxed out MH rating means "total occupational and social impairment" which in the worst case could possibly come up on a CUE if you had long term employment but I have yet to see it happen. Not trying to scare you just letting you know all the possibilities. Substantial gainful employment is usually around 13k a year but that is only for vets getting TDIU if you fall under that and go over annual threshold the VA will send you out a letter for a reduction.

PEB Forum Regular Member

Assuming we’re not talking about TDIU, the simple answer is they wouldn’t.

However, if the VA were to ever order a re-evaluation of your condition (if you’re 100 PT this is extremely rare), they may look at your medical records and/or order a CP Exam. If your medical notes disclose your employment history or you reveal this information during your CP Exam, the VA could find out that way.

Super Moderator

Most get busted from flat out getting narc'd on, either by friends family co workers or even HR. Whether the VA forwards it to the justice department or handles it internally is by discretion no doubt they will verify if you been telling your doctors you have been working or not. This case below is one of my favs to share to see how the VA aggressively pursue severing your benefits if they feel you grossly mislead them.

PEB Forum Regular Member

A former colleague posted the info below in May 2017 on another site for veterans. He makes a good point in my opinion.

[start]
From time to time, a member will post a question about working with a total disability rating.

The rating schedule is designed to represent, as far as can practicably be determined, the average impairment in earning capacity resulting from identified disabilities. A total schedule rating is assigned when the average veteran would experience a total loss of earning capacity when found to meet the 100% criteria listed for a disability.

These total ratings do not necessarily reflect the actual loss of earning capacity experienced by a particular veteran . For example, the VA will assign a rating of 100% to a vet with active service connected prostate cancer - the VA determined that the average veteran with active prostate cancer would experience a total loss of earning capacity. But many individual veterans with prostate cancer continue to be gainfully employed and the criteria for a 100% prostate cancer rating does not address employment.

The criteria for a 100% Mental Health rating is 'Total occupational and social impairment' with the rating schedule including symptoms commonly associated with this Total Impairment. If the individual veteran does not experience total occupational and social impairment, then that individual vet does not meet that 100% rating criteria. A veteran with a mental health rating who is able to be gainfully employed is providing evidence that the 100% mental health rating criteria for a total rating is not met.

The Total disability due to Individual unemployablity (TDIU) rating is a departure from the rating schedule. The TDIU rating is assigned where the scheduler rating is less than total but the disabled person is, in the judgment of the rating agency, unable to secure or follow a substantially gainful occupation as a result of service-connected disabilities. The award of the TDIU rating is entirely dependent on that individual being unable to work and not on the impact of disability on the average veteran. A vet who is able to sustain gainful employment is providing evidence that the criteria for a TDIU rating is not met.

We have seen argument on the web site about vets working while holding a TDIU rating or a Total Mental Health rating. The argument often reduces to members arguing that the vet can do whatever the vet wishes until the VA reacts. There are such concepts as sheltered workshops and return to work programs. Beyond those situations, substantially gainful employment is inconsistent with the criteria for a TDIU or 100% Mental Health rating.--Nick [end]

PEB Forum Regular Member

Assuming we’re not talking about TDIU, the simple answer is they wouldn’t.

However, if the VA were to ever order a re-evaluation of your condition (if you’re 100 PT this is extremely rare), they may look at your medical records and/or order a CP Exam. If your medical notes disclose your employment history or you reveal this information during your CP Exam, the VA could find out that way.