Mary Lambert, aged 81 has taught at the Watertown First Baptist Church for 54 years. That ended on Aug 9th when she was sent a letter telling her that the Diaconate Board of the church was unanimously dismissing her from her 11 year post teaching the adult bible study class because she was a woman. The letter explained her termination as spiritual reasons, specifically quoting 1 Timothy 2:11 -14, “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.”

As this story continues its bouncing round the internet, aided by being circulated by the Associated Press, obviously a lot of women (and men) are irritated, angry and confused. What is the Pastor Timothy Labouf and the church board doing? Is this some Christian fifth column trying to convince more people to become agnostic? No, there is actually a larger and more squalid story.

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After several days of silence, the governing board of Watertown's First Baptist Church and its minister, Timothy LaBouf, issued written statements Friday night.

LaBouf - who is also a member of the Watertown city council - says he refrained from saying anything until a meeting could be held Friday. His statement and the board's statement were issued after the meeting.

In his statement, LaBouf says the dismissal of Mary Lambert from her longtime post as a Sunday school teacher involved more than the biblical citation that woman should not teach men.

While not detailing the other issues, LaBouf acknowleged that there has been a split within the church.

On the subject of the religious basis for Lambert's dismissal, LaBouf says the following:

"As Pastor of the First Baptist Church I take very seriously my responsibilities to watch over the congregation and I also take very seriously proclaiming scripture as the truth and applicable for all situations of life and containing the blueprints for how we should structure our church corporately. I believe based on the consistent teaching of scripture that there are qualifications for both men and women teaching spiritual matters within the church. These qualifications do not mean that one is superior or more important than another it only means that God has a special plan for each of us in accomplishing His work within the church setting."

"I believe that as a Pastor I will ultimately stand before God and give an account of how I proclaimed and enforced His word within the church setting especially. Now I am fully aware that not everyone ascribes to my view of the scriptures but I would never vilify them for having a different religious view and I would hope that if you do hold a different view that you would extend to me the same courtesy."

He goes on to praise Mary Corriveau, the Watertown city manager with whom he works as a city council member and says "I treat both men and women as equals."

The full text of both statements can be read at NewzJunky.

Mary Lambert received a letter from LaBouf's wife last week telling Lambert she may no longer teach Sunday school to men because, according to the Bible, women must be submissive and silent.

7 News repeatedly tried to reach LaBouf last week for comment by leaving telephone and email messages and knocking on the doors of his home and Watertown's First Baptist Church, where he's the pastor.

Meanwhile, the 81 year old former teacher is being neither submissive nor silent.

"I've had innumerable phone calls--not only local, but as far away as Florida and California...some from the media and some from friends I haven't seen for over 50 years," said Lambert.

Lambert said all but one of the callers supported her.

She taught Sunday school at Watertown's First Baptist Church for 54 years until she received a letter from church leaders telling her she's dismissed.

Lambert said most of the callers asked the same question, "How did this happen? They're kind of astonished by what has happened."

The letter Lambert received states that church leaders adopted a scriptural approach to Sunday school teachers.

The letter quotes 1 Timothy 2:11 -14 of the New Testament: "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner."

The letter states that the church's Diaconate Board unanimously decided to dismiss Lambert, who has taught a 9:30 a.m. Sunday school class for adults at the church for 11 years.

The letter was signed by church clerk Kendra LaBouf, who is married to Pastor Tim LaBouf.

Lambert said she believes there's more to her dismissal than meets the eye.

She said she and Pastor LaBouf have had differences of opinion concerning the direction of the church.

I dont think there is any harm if a mother teaches a child, but if I say sarcastically the verses mentioned in <<I Timothy ch:2 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent>>, is like mother/daughter teaching a father and a grandfather and children is not entertained as per the word of God,a teacher teaching the students of a sunday school there is no harm at all, mother has always an authority over the child, but not over the father.A sunday school and a gathering of saints are not the same.

I also have the same opinion of the Bro. Samuel. Sunday school children are mostly below 16 years even if they are male, they are not adult. The Word of God mentioned as “do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man.” When we call a male a man when he become an adult, I do not think banning Sisters from teaching Sunday School is as per the Word of God. In our several assemblies Sisters teaches Sunday Schools.

1Ti 2:11Let a woman learn in silence with all submission.

1Ti 2:12And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.

I too believe that banning Sisters from teaching Sunday School is not as per the Word of God rather we should welcome the sisters to take the Sunday School and all as there are too many women who are gifted teachers. I think men are the teachers but mothers teach the children that will later on save millions, the mother is the foundation of the child learning that will become a man.

I believe God will reward this dear lady for all the years she taught.

I think Paul says women can not teach in church nor be part of leadership. She can teach women and children...testify...but not teaching to congregation. If I am wrong...Pls correct me.

But in one area..i.e, the role of women in ministry..for me, it just doesn’t seem crystal clear.

I often come across who argue that in God’s eyes we, men and women, are the same, we are all saved through faith .

What of Debroah, Pheboe, Priscilla, etc., etc.? What of the women leaders mentioned and praised in the Bible, including by Paul?

What of the prophecy of Joel, confirmed by Peter that says in the last days God will pour out His Spirit on ALL flesh and specifically mentions women?

Who was the first New Testament Evangelist? = Mary, a woman.

There is also Huldah, Anna, the Samaritan woman at the well, (another woman evangelist) and let's not forget the first praise and worship leader of all Israel and a prophetess, Miriam.

This is one of those areas that, for me, is hard to really pin down.

Below is an article written by Howard Morgan which is very interesting regarding the role of women in ministry. Eventhough I am pasting the article here it should not be construed as an endorsement by myself.

Just to invite your thoughts...

Quote:

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Women in Ministry: Anointed for Service, Robbed of Opportunity

by Howard Morgan, D. Min.

The position of women in ministry has for many centuries been troubling for much of the church. However, as we go back to our Jewish roots we discover that the true faith of Abraham provides both anointing and opportunity for women to fulfill their callings in the Kingdom of God.

As the church departed from her Jewish roots, she lost her understanding of the Kingdom of God and adopted the pagan understanding of "gentile authority" which Jesus warned us against and prohibited His disciples from emulating. This kind of authority by its nature is oppressive and repressive. It seeks to keep in power and authority those who by virtue of their military strength, political standing, or financial resources have acquired dominant positions in society. The Kingdom of God, as it is revealed in the Jewish Scriptures, is built upon an entirely different structure. The greatest in the Kingdom of God are those who serve (Matthew 23:11). Those who are given authority in the church are given it for the express purpose of serving the purposes of God in the lives of those in their care and are never given it to manipulate them to serve their own self-centered purposes (Colossians.1:28). Anything that is not centered on the purposes of God in another’s life is by definition centered on "self." Self-centered religion builds its own "kingdom" in opposition to the Kingdom of God. You can use this concept of a self-centered kingdom as opposed to a Christ- centered Kingdom as a very accurate measuring rod as you look at your own motivations, and seek to discern the motivations of modern church leaders and those you read about in church history. If traditional views of church practices that have become the norm today, and theological interpretations of the Bible that justify those practices, are based on a self-centered motivation, then we must change those practices and change the theologies that justify them. We are under a divine mandate to build God’s Kingdom and not to protect that which sustains any other "kingdom."

Leaders in the Kingdom of God are vested with authority so that they can do what is necessary to help those committed to their charge become "complete in the Messiah" (Colossians 1:28). All leaders who are practicing Biblical religion are anointed by God for one reason and that is to equip "the saints" for the work of service that they are called to (Ephesians 4:11-16). "The saints" is a reference to all who believe in the Messiah, which obviously includes women. This means that all ministers are called to do whatever they can to help women fulfill their callings in the Lord, and not hinder them!

Before we look at the infamous "women keep silent in the church" and "let women learn in silence" and "I suffer not a woman to teach nor to usurp authority over the man, but be in silence" verses, let’s take a look at the big picture of how God sees and uses women in the building of His Kingdom. It is when we see the whole story that we will understand what Paul was actually communicating. Then we will be able to see what God intends for his anointed daughters.

Let’s begin by examining the Bible to see how God anointed women and then gave them opportunities to serve. These many examples are highly instructive for us as we seek to restore the church to her proper Biblical foundations and women to their Biblical ministries.

Please understand that when you read these small vignettes about women in the Bible, that we are not just talking about unique or special individuals but rather we are looking at them as spiritual types as they reflect what any woman can be or do if she will respond to the Lord as these women did. If we fail to see them in this way their stories will have no power to affect lives today, and the purposes of God in relating them to us in His Holy Scripture will be lost. They are "examples to us who believe, upon whom the end of the ages has come" (1 Corinthians 10:11).

Consider:

Sarah, the wife of Abraham, is written about in the "hall of fame of faith" in Hebrews 11. There the writer says that "Through faith Sarah received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised." How are you fairing today concerning the promises of God to you? Like this woman of God, are you judging God faithful to fulfill his promises to you, or are you judging him another way?

When Rebecca understood that it was the will of God for her to go with a stranger to marry a stranger, she did not hesitate to fulfill God’s will. When this woman of God was convinced about the will of God she moved without delay, do you?

Consider the faith and wisdom of Jochebed, mother of Moses, Levi and Miriam. Committing her son to the small watertight ark she built, she planned for Pharaoh’s daughter to find him and for miriam to suggest that she nurse her own son. In this way she was led by the Spirit to be actively involved in the formative years of Moses’ life, imparting to him the spiritual foundations for his future greatness. Could you do with your child what this woman of God did with hers?

Jochebed’s godly influence is also seen in her daughter miriam’s life. The Prophet Micah mentions her as one of those God used to lead Israel during the Exodus (Micah 6:4). After the miraculous deliverance of Israel and the divine judgment upon Pharaoh’s army at the red sea, Miriam, whom the scripture specifically calls a "prophetess" became the first worship leader in Israel’s history, singing and dancing with a tambourine, as she led the women in dancing and the nation in singing the praises of the Lord (Exodus 15:20-21).

Because of the boldness, wisdom, and faith in the goodness and righteousness of the Lord, the five daughters of Zelophehad, had the Law of God, the Torah, changed. God himself said that they "spoke right" when they insisted that women be included in the property rights inheritance laws (Numbers 27:1-9). Could they have been the first "lady lawyers" in the world? When you see unrighteousness do you have the boldness to confront it? These five women did!

Rahab, a woman of dubious character, (some rabbis call her merely an "innkeeper") also mentioned in the Hebrews 11 "hall of fame of faith", is a direct ancestor of david and Jesus. She had great faith, wisdom, discernment and courage. She was one who could "discern the signs of the times" and recognized that the formerly impregnable Jericho was about to be destroyed. Rahab's past life was no indication of her future success. When she came to faith, she obeyed and received her reward. What discernment about the signs of the times do you have? What are you doing about the things you discern? Would you take the risks that Rahab did? Would you have hidden spies?

Consider the wisdom of Abigail, and the desire for wisdom of the Queen of Sheba. And the widow of Zarephath, whose obedience to the word of the prophet Elijah brought supernatural provision to her home. What about Hulda, another prophetess, whom Josiah sought for wisdom and guidance when He found the Law of God, or the prayer passion of Hannah, whose intercession and future dedication and sacrifice brought to Israel the great judge and prophet Samuel.

Let us not fail to mention three of the most famous women in the Hebrew Scriptures. Ruth, Esther and Deborah. Ruth is the premier example of faith and devotion. Her quote to Naomi, "Entreat me not to leave thee, or to return from following after thee: for whither thou goest, I will go; and where thou lodgest, I will lodge: thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God: Where thou diest, will I die, and there will I be buried: the LORD do so to me, and more also, if ought but death part thee and me," is one of the most famous in all of Scripture. It is the answer for all of us to the question Jesus asked Peter, "Will you leave me also?"

Another famous quote is attributed to the beauty queen turned national savior and hero, Esther. When faced with the prospect of certain death for entering the King’s throne room uninvited she proclaimed with faith and courage, "I will go in unto the king, which is not according to the law: and if I perish, I perish."

Deborah was a prophetess, a counselor, a military leader and a judge. The Israelite general Barak knew the anointing of God that was upon her life and would not go out to battle unless Deborah consented to go with him. Like Esther, God used this woman to deliver the entire nation.

These examples of women in the old testament clearly show how the Lord anointed women and then gave them opportunities to serve His purposes. God never changes (Malachi 3:6). So why would He, or the apostle the church claims to follow, now prohibit women from exercising their anointings or taking advantage of the opportunities God gives them? The answer of course is that neither He nor Paul has done that.

In the new testament we see women exercising their faith and their giftings as God gives them opportunity. Consider these examples. The woman at the well was an evangelist (John 4:29-30). The woman with the issue of blood had faith enough to take the anointing right out of Jesus’ body without Him directing it (Mark 5:30-34). There were three women at the cross (John 19:25, 26), and two women at the tomb who were the first to see the resurrected Savior, and the first to proclaim the good news of His resurrection (Matt. 28:1,10). There were women who were preaching the gospel enough to be persecuted by saul (Acts 8:3,4). Philip the evangelist had four daughters who were prophetesses (Acts 21:8-9). There were jewish women in the upper room (Acts 1:14, 2:4), and gentile women in Cornelius’ home (Acts10:24,27,44) receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit (Joel 2:28,29), the purpose of which was to imbue the receivers with power to minister (Acts 1:8). Why would God give women the power to minister and then deny them the opportunity to use it? He wouldn’t and didn’t. But insecure, intimidated, and deceived misogynistic men would. In the pure apostolic first century church women could exercise all the gifts of the spirit and did! In 1 Corinthians 11:5 Paul specifically acknowledges women praying and prophesying.

Women in the New Testament did preach, pray, and prophesy. In Romans 16:1 Phebe is called, in the Greek text, a diakonos--a minister--of the church. This is a masculine noun that is used in many places in the New Testament to describe individuals who do the work of the ministry: evangelizing, preaching, praying, prophesying. we see Priscilla and Aquila, her husband, ministering together, teaching Apollos the scriptures, overseeing a church, and traveling with and helping Paul in the ministry (Acts 18:1-18, 26; Romans 16:3; 1 Corinthians 16:19). These are not things a woman who had to be silent could do! Junia, a woman, is called an apostle by Paul in Romans 16:7, and in Philippians 4:2-3 he mentions two women, Euodious and Syntyche, whom he describes as "fellow laborers in the gospel." How could you labor in the gospel and be silent?

It is obvious then that God fully intends for women to exercise all of the gifts and anointings that God imparts to them. This being true, how could Paul tell women in 1 Corinthians 14: 34-35 to be silent, and that it is not permitted for them to speak in church? The answer is simply that he did not. He was only restating a quote in a letter sent to him about this and other issues (chapter 7:1). He responds to the quote by exclaiming in vs. 36; "What? (are you talking about!) Came the word of God out from you? Or came it unto you only?" (Italics mine.) It is foolishness to think that he would stop in the middle of a chapter and contradict all that he had just written and was himself practicing. It is not a shame for women to speak in church, because he already instructed women to speak in church. The whole content of this chapter is the balanced use of tongues and prophecy by both men and women. I believe that all of the difficulties that this text presents are cleared up when these verses are seen as a simple restatement of an issue posed to Paul by those yet bound by unscriptural Jewish traditions. These traditions (the oral "law" of vs. 34) kept women silent in synagogue and there were those who wanted these traditions to be carried over into the church.

Did Paul really instruct the church that women are not allowed to teach in 1 timothy 2:12? If he did, then how could he expect them, as believers, to fulfill the great commission? Jesus told everybody to "go into all the world and teach the nations…" In like manner, those who prophesy do so that everyone can learn, the central goal of teaching (1 Corinthians 14:31). We saw earlier that Paul encouraged women to prophesy. It is interesting to note that Jesus in His rebuke of Jezebel in the book of Revelation (2:20) did not censure her for teaching or prophesying, but for teaching and prophesying error. He could have easily taken advantage of that situation to end this controversy once and for all by saying, "Jezebel, you woman, be quiet! I don’t allow women to teach or prophecy in my church, you are supposed to be silent." If women were never allowed to teach or prophesy, the elders in the church at Thyatira would never have even allowed her to open her mouth. But because women were teaching and prophesying as a normal occurrence, she had the opportunity to speak. The church was rebuked for allowing her to lead people astray, not for allowing her to teach. Indeed in verse 21 the Lord gave her time to repent of her immorality, not of her prophesying or teaching.

The immorality of Jezebel in Revelation 2 ties directly to our study of 1 Timothy 2:12. If you will take the time to do an in depth study of 1 Timothy 2:12, you will find that Paul was not telling women in general not to teach or have authority over men, but was in actuality dealing with Gnosticism and female gnostic teachers who were mixing sexual immorality with gnostic doctrines. The greek word used in this passage of Scripture for "usurp authority" is authentien. This is the only place it is used in the New Testament. The normal word for authority is exousia. This rare verb had coarse sexual overtones. John Chrysostom’s fourth century commentary on this verb uses the expression "sexual license." What Paul was actually doing was prohibiting female gnostic teachers from mixing their strange doctrines and sexual immorality as a means of seducing the church. This is exactly what Jesus was doing in Revelation 2:20-24. For a detailed treatment of this concept, let me refer you to Charles Trombley’s book, Who Said Women Can’t Teach.

Throughout the Bible we find women who had powerful personal revelations and ministries. Church history is full of misogynistic theologians and ministers who have, all too successfully, tried to minimize them as some special exception to the norm. but that is completely wrong and the church has suffered tremendously because of it. One of the many doctrines of demons that the church has believed is that women are inferior to men and that Paul meant to silence them and relegate them to lifetimes of spiritual imprisonment and fruitlessness. As we boldly confront those doctrines of demons we will find ourselves in many intense spiritual battles. But the fruits of our victory will be well worth the fight. All the women in the Body of Christ will be set free to minister in the anointing of the Holy Spirit and take full advantage of all the wonderful opportunities God will give them to build His Kingdom. Satan knows how powerful women are in the Spirit and so he has tried to "silence" and minimize them. But as God restores his church to her Jewish roots, those daughters of Abraham will be set free to do a great deal of damage to satan's kingdom. Amen!

God has one unchanging purpose in the earth and that is to disciple men and women who can inherit His Kingdom and be qualified to rule and reign with Him. By anointing His children with His spirit and then giving them opportunities to serve, God is able to train such people. Let us now, as we approach the third christian millenium not hinder anyone from fulfilling God’s purposes, but rather work together with Him to see everyone complete in the Messiah.

Dr. Howard Morgan is president of Triumphant Living Ministries. He is a leading scholar of the causes of and solutions for the problem of Christian Judaeophobia and anti-Semitism. He is a popular Bible teacher, focusing on instruction in the Jewish roots of Christian faith and Jewish/Christian relations and on equipping believers with the understanding to come to greater Christian maturity. Howard, his wife Janet, and their daughters, Briana, Melanie, and Source:-http://www.howardmorganministries.org/

Whats your opinion about the passage you have posted , let us know your opinion , when any one wants to justify the stand he has thought about already as what the post author Dr. Howard Morgan did, they can refer and link many verses to match thier tune, either Apostle Paul is wrong is the verses of 1st Timothy or a human bieng like me and you Mr. Howard is correct by his findings , when writing those verses where women to remain silent , there is a reason why women was to be silent, because it was through Eve, the first women God created to be a partner for man , had been influenced by Satan and hence sin started. What ever may the qualities of a woman there are limitations as per the Scriptures, there is a decorum A woman cannot be a husband, and the assembly cannot be the head of Christ, Christ the head of the church, husband the head of wife , can a wife be head of an husband, if yes there will be problems.

1 Timothy Ch:2

Men and Women in the Church

11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.

It is left for us how we take this verses , Each letter of Apostle guides us in our Christian life, he knows the characteristics of women at his time of ministry, he appreciates the ministry of different sisters, but the decorum of the gathering of Saints is stated how its should be but it has been interprated according to each ones tune and hence we got a massive number of classification among christian and each of the gathering cling on the teachings and doctrines and consider others as unworthy of being called childern of God.

In the above article which you posted we can see different ministries of sisters (women), but none of these are proven is did in the midst of the congregation where redeemed men are present.

But women headship or leadership prohibition, we can see in the different scriptural portions. The redeemed women should not take headship, leadership etc. in a congregation where redeemed men are present.

1Ti 2:11Let a woman learn in silence with all submission.

1Ti 2:12And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.

1Co 14:34Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says.

1Co 14:35And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.

Eph 5:23For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.

Eph 5:24Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.

1Co 11:3But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

I totally agree with your stand when it is inside the church and ofcourse in our homes but all I want to know whether women can teach the men outside the church....like door to door ministry etc. Any verse in the scripture restricting the same?

Sambudhanoor wrote

"The redeemed women should not take headship, leadership etc. in a congregation where redeemed men are present"

Does it mean that a women can take headship, leadership etc. in a congregation where unredeemed men are present?...If I am wrong, pls correct me.

As per my understanding from the scriptures the decorum mentioned is only where saints gather together, A sister in Christ has complete freedom to share the gospel of Good news to anyone, irrespective of sex. And there are many brothers and sisters who through the personal evangelism have achieved souls unto Heavenly Kingdom. It is each one responsibility to proclaim the Gospel, how God has redeemed them

Then the question is why we have no 'women evangelist' ? Excuse me if this is a stupid question...I really want to know. why our sisters are not actively participating in these kind of ministries?

I hardly ever seen our sisters doing the personal evangelism...I mean door to door ministry like what our brothers are doing. They have been advised only to pray at home for these brothers. Of course, I have seen some sisters doing hospital ministries etc..but nothing else.

There is a reply in your querry itself, this is where the limitation of women appears, women cannot go around without thier husbands in this world without fear in practical norms, they have thier limitations in preaching the Gospel on crossroads, they have thier limitations in reaching each houses of unreached souls where male members are present, because this world is not a safe place to live in at the moment, therefore thereare certain ministries for sisters, sure whenever a sister gets a oppurtunity she should share the gospel, I know several sisters who while going for work has bag full of tracts and goes on distributing to all whom they meet.Any way full time evangelism for a family woman is not practical.

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