I've noticed Mido school on some black/grey lists but nothing dated this year. Should I still avoid it? Also, why are so many allegedly blacklisted schools turning up on "white" lists, do they pay to be on there? It's hard to know what to believe.

A lot of schools end up on "black lists" because a teacher who was "fired for no reason" because it's impossible to be fired for no reason, and they go around "getting even".

Come on Gord, you know that it happens. People do get fired so that owners do not have to pay severence pay... Why else would people be fired in the 9th, 10th, or 11th month. If the person is a bad teacher they would have been fired before that.

Come on Gord, you know that it happens. People do get fired so that owners do not have to pay severence pay... Why else would people be fired in the 9th, 10th, or 11th month. If the person is a bad teacher they would have been fired before that.

I can think of two examples that I've seen first hand in the last year.

One guy, an Australian, started the same day I did. He worked for one entire day before moving into a bar, never to be seen from again. A month later he phones up demanding a month's salary because he was never fired (thus must still be on the payroll), and threatens to phone the labour board and toss the name of the school on every blacklist he can find.

The labour board people made a phone call, got told what really happened (he claimed he worked for an entire month and never got paid), and that was the end of it.

Another example was a guy from one of the huge Korean hogwan chains. He was making a power play to get into management as he was tired of being a teacher and doing a whole of lot uncool things to make himself look good.

The school had enough and fired him after one specific incident where started telling the new teachers that he as the "head teacher" and must address him as such. So he goes off on a tirade here on Dave's posting under a bunch of different names saying he was fired without reason and how he was a victim and the best teacher in the world.

In comparison, I don't know of anyone who was fired magically in their last month. Everyone I know either got their severance, or they left before on their own accord.

I'm not saying firing to save money doesn't happen, but it's far less of an issue that it's made out to be.

gord you have blinders on. Just read the cases mentioned here. igotthisguitar is a prime example I know of and I could go on just do a search here. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen and quit telling people that it doesn't.

gord you have blinders on. Just read the cases mentioned here. igotthisguitar is a prime example I know of and I could go on just do a search here. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen and quit telling people that it doesn't.

A school is far more likely, in my opinion and experience, to be on a blacklist because of ANGST BABY ANGST from a teacher than from actual merrit.

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come on you've been here long enough to know better.

I never said it "does not happen", but rather it's a far less common event than you are suggesting it is to be. You're suggesting that because a few people have complained "they didn't get paid", (and you are accepting their claims at complete face value, I might add[), that everyone won't get paid.

One girl I know is a recruiter who usually stays in contact with the teachers she brings over. Add in she brings over about ten teachers a month. In the year and half I've known her (and asking about these scenarios that pop up as I'm curious), she knew of one case in which the teacher complained they were going to be fired and not get their severance. Turns out in that one case the teacher was a complete ass and started doing things like showing up late for work, personal hygiene had gone to hell, and basically was of the opinion "I've been here too long, they won't fire me."

I even know two people personally who completed their contracts in the last couple weeks who got their severance without any sort of issue.

But where is the fun in posting "OMG! I GOT PAID AND EVERYTHING!"? Yes, that's the first thing I would do after working at a school without any major issues.

While I dont think it's as much a load of crap that Gord thinks, I do feel that black-lists can be (and are) easily abused for whatever petty reason that may come up.

I figure that if a school has one or two complaints against it, it's best to ignore the blacklist until further support comes in. If you see the hagwon's (hagwon, not chain) name again and again, then you can pretty much take the blacklist to be spot on.

thank you, RFR, for being the voice of reason on this issue. while both sides in this case (gord vs. the mods et al) have raised valid points, the fact of the matter is that most schools will eventually be "blacklisted" (read--"bad-mouthed) derservedly or not (through the internet or via word of mouth).

if we were to believe every single negative story about every single school at face value, we would never work in korea again and neither would anyone else. on the other hand, if we ignore the stories of fear and loathing, we (and especially newbies) will probably get suckered into working for shifty schools.

if i hear a story from 1 teacher about a school, my eyebrows raise. two stories, from 2 different teachers, and i shake my head. three stories, and i start warning folks about the place...

I've noticed Mido school on some black/grey lists but nothing dated this year. Should I still avoid it? Also, why are so many allegedly blacklisted schools turning up on "white" lists, do they pay to be on there? It's hard to know what to believe.

Yeah, I would say to ignore black or white lists for the most part. I remember my school was put on a blacklist once, when my boss is quite simply the best I've ever had, and the teacher who put the school on there was sick at least once a week, always late, hated Koreans and told his students so and never prepared for class. Make yourself a valuable commodity to any organization and usually won't give you any reason to put them on a blacklist.

i think there are just as many bad teachers in korea as there are bad schools. i wouldn't put much stock into the blacklists. you have no idea who these people are or what their motivation is.
another thing to keep in mind is that hagwans can change hands over night. the owners of my first school were pretty slimy but they sold the school 2 months into my contract and the new owners were wonderful people and i loved working there.