Re: Get a clue Joe

The government has a very simple stick 'Verified Seller / Importer' program. If you agree to collect GST on products sent to Australia then GST your parcels will be fast tracked. If you opt not to join the program then packages will be delayed while GST is assessed. Pretty sure that will encourage major overseas retailers to join.

Most retailers are used to dealing with different rates of sales tax based on the destination so it should be a simple change and the retailer can earn interest on the 10% they hold for up to 2 months before paying the government.

Re: blAndriod and Crapple

Re: I'd gladly join the NBN

> FTTN now consider that report are saying upto 70% of the copper is not up to scratch and our national average before the NBN was only 4Mbps

What is the basis for this figure? The only meaningful public figures I've seen on ADSL network speeds were published by Internode & iiNet in 2008 in response to Labor's FTTN plans to demonstrate that close to 50% already had 12Mbps on their ADSL2+ networks. 12Mbps was the promised minimum speed of Labor's FTTN plan.

As for Telstra comments on the state of the copper network you need to be aware that the cost of maintenance on the copper network is a big input into the ACCC determination on wholesale prices that Telstra can charge. Telstra's comments are slightly more trustworthy that Labor promising a budget surplus.

Re: Give the NBN to people that actually want it

> As the current design only delivers a 5Mbps on a full node.

Is all your knowledge on the NBN as accurate as this statement? I suggest reading The Register article 'nbn™ plans for future backhaul upgrade to FTTN cabinets'. In particular I suggest paying attention to this quote from nbn™ chief architect Tony Cross:

“In areas where the nbn™ Transit Network is available we could provide all the way up to 20Gbps backhaul for an FTTN cabinet if we chose to do so – but it’s highly unlikely that we will need that amount of backhaul capacity for an FTTN cabinet for quite some time. The reality is that we can quite easily upgrade our FTTN cabinet backhaul capacity whenever we need to do so by simply installing a new optical interface – there is no need whatsoever to run any new fibre."

Sadly too many people who have the technical knowledge to know better have been distracted by the shiney fibre and failed to understand what Labor was actually implementing.

Re: I'd gladly join the NBN

Firstly if you consider 100Mbps fast, then excellent as you will find HFC, FTTB and many FTTN connections to be acceptable. Secondly 76% of Australians have voted with their wallets that faster thatn 25Mbps is too expensive and faster than 100Mbps plans will be significantly more expensive again.

If you read Labor's first NBNCo Corporate Plan they explained that 100Mbps symmetric was the minimum recommended speed for most applications. Personally my opinion is that the minimum speed to be considered a global leader is 1Gbps.

Re: Give the NBN to people that actually want it

> Yes but Mathew the NBN under FTTP only need 20% on high their consuming data.

As pointed out previously, NBNCo plans are currently discounted versus actual costs. Significant increases particularly in CVC are required to break even.

> Labor decision gives you a choice of upto 100Mbps whether you need it or not.

Labor's play favoured the rich by building out a 1Gbps capable network that only the rich could afford to use, making everyone pay for infrastructure that only a few would use.

> NBN could go the way of Google. $120 for 1Gbps + pay TV, $75 for 1Gbps only or $300 connection fee for a free 5Mbps for 7 years free (makes FOD a joke)

I agree that asking Google to build the NBN could have been a much wiser decision, especially when according to Quigley 1Gbps were only announced just prior to the 2010 election in response to Google Fibre. However the reality is that 1Gbps plans will be higher than $1000/month which is the reason that zero ISPs are offering the plans, which have been available wholesale since December 2014.

To have 1Gbps prices around $120/month would require completely redesigning the NBN wholesale pricing model (most likely removing speed tiers). The most likely alternative is that FTTB through TPG and other providers will deliver faster speeds more cheaply.

Re: Give the NBN to people that actually want it

> Second, there is a false assumption - bordering on a straw-man argument - that the idea of the FTTP NBN was to be an efficient network that fills the needs that exist today.

Labor came up with the NBN when Telstra refused to negotiate on building FTTN.

> It wasn't - it was designed to be a network to cope with future needs.

Each of Labor's NBNCo Corporate Plans had ~50% connected on fibre at 12Mbps out to end of the forecast period (2028).

> So the argument from people like Turnbull (and you) that people don't need more than is currently available is really an argument for not planning ahead when building essential infrastructure and only building what is necessary now.

The most recent connection figures are 38% on fibre opting for 12Mbps and further 38% opting for 25Mbps. People who require faster speeds have options: move to a FTTP area or FoD. The average house price in Australia is reported to be >$700,000. That means FoD install almost certainly less than 1% and if it is in demand add value like repainting the house or renovating the kitchen.

Wholesale pricing

The NBNCo Corporate Plan is based on ARPU rising steeply in future years. If you usage doesn't change then overtime prices should fall, but if you want faster speeds or larger quotas then expect to pay more.

Re: Why do you need to switch your PSTN service

Re: Why force people to move?

Because without those customers on the NBN, the financial viability of the NBN is called further into question. One would think that the $800 per customer that Labor agreed to pay Telstra for each customer to be migrated would be ample incentive for Telstra.

Clearly those not migrating to the NBN don't understand the benefits. However if they don't use more than 10GB/month then they may find that 4G is a cheaper solution.

> Yes they have tons of spare bandwidth but that's because they've priced it out of reach for the RSP and their customers.

Somebody has to pay for the infrastructure to be built. Labor policy was for the NBN to be revenue neutral so that means customers have to pay the full cost. Pricing can be based on two components: connection fees and usage fees. Labor chose to reintroduce speed tiers (AVC) and also have data charges (CVC).

- If AVC is priced too high, then less people connect. FoD demonstrates this as many complain $5000 is too much even when arguing that FTTP will improve property values and $5000 is less than 1% of average house prices and cheaper than painting or a kitchen renovation.

- If CVC is expensive, then people will still connect, but choose more wisely on what content they consume. Unlimited netflix is the counter example to this and a major cause of the current issues.

> The NBN was meant to be a catalyst for changing. For advancing Australia. Instead its expensive, of worse quality then say ADSL and it has major limitations and issues.

Speed tiers severely undermined the ability of NBNCo to act as a catalyst for change especially when Labor predicted that 50% would connect on fibre at 12Mbps. I would countenance a serious argument that internet access should be subsidised by the government for those receiving government benefits.

> Just because they can charge so much for it doesn't mean they should.

Current NBNCo wholesale plans are discounted. The NBNCo Corporate Plans document the steep rises in ARPU to north of $100. The NBNCo plan is for revenue growth to mainly come from growth in CVC. Those people who think that NBNCo should be providing 1Gbps plans with unlimited quota for $150 wholesale have no understanding of the flawed foundations that Labor set for NBNCo.

RSP backhaul issue?

> I have already noticed now that Netflix is here in Australia my net slows to a crawl during those times and I have a decent 100mbit connection, I am now lucky to get 1/3 of what I am paying for.

Have you correctly identified that the issue is with the NBNCo portion of the network or is the issue with your RSP purchasing inadequate backhaul? Some RSPs have chosen to provide unlimited Netflix and their networks are suffering because of this. If the RSPs metered Netflix then they would have the cashflow to purchase additional backhaul.

> EVERY other country that implemented FTTN has already started replacing it because it can't handle the bandwidth everyone is using.

Labor predicted 50% on fibre would connect at 12Mbps. The most recently released figures are 38% on fibre connected at 12Mbps and a further 38% connected at 25Mbps. These speeds can be easily provided by FTTN, HFC and even 4G. More accurate would be to say that minority feel entitled to high speed connections but expect to be subsidised by others.

There have been plenty of free / very cheap offers for Netflix, Stan, etc. in the past couple of months. It will be interesting to see how may people still have streaming services when they need to pay.

Re: Fast speeds or high quotas?

Re: Fast speeds or high quotas?

> Let say makes a profit of $2 on the 12/1 $24 price to help pay back the loan.

NBNCo ARPU needs to approach $100 for the 7% ROI to be reached, there isn't any profit to be made on AVC at 100Mbps or less. CVC is where the profit is to be made. I consider this fair and reasonable as it allocates costs based on who is using the system and lower AVC encourages higher take-up. Whereas if the AVC is too high then people will simply opt for 4G.

Re: Fast speeds or high quotas?

> Most ADSL connections would be luck to get anywhere near the sustained network speeds of 12Mbps.

Actually the only known reliable data from iiNet / Internode published in 2008 showed that for Sydney almost 50% of connections achieved 12Mbps. At the time it was used as evidence to explain that Labor's FTTN plan would deliver little benefit to half of the country. Sadly, Labor's FTTP plan predicted that 50% on fibre would connect at 12Mbps.

Fast speeds or high quotas?

The NBN pricing model is a compromise between charging based on speed and data. I would argue that it is speed that will deliver the benefits not higher quotas with slower speeds.

NBNCo require steep rises in ARPU to meet the desired ROI. If iiNet want to see cheaper CVC then AVC will need to rise, suppressing the take-up of higher speeds. Extrapolating from the NBNCo Corporate Plan, the price of CVC is forecast to fall by 2.5 times, while the average data usage grows by 18 times = growth in revenue from CVC of 720% when accounting for price falls.

As of February 26th, 38% on fibre have connected at 12Mbps while a further 38% have connected at 25Mbps. Hardly a justification for FTTP.

wiring through the gutter

Going back a few years, a co-worker purchased a house and was intrigued as to how the garage was connected to power. Turned out the previous owner had run an extension cord from the house through the gutter. Not particularly bright, but using two extension cords and joining them in the gutter is another level of stupidity again.

F**king Madness

Sorry, but this just plain stupid. Having said that I'm still not keen on WPS.

Friends of my kid's school friends having automatic access to my home network? WTF! After several discussions about not installing random games from the PlayStore that want access to everything, the kids have some concept of information security that was reinforced by 'Do that again and you won't be using that tablet!'

MAC filtering by default is just painful especially with family visiting. Looks like it might be time to look at DD-WRT and sin bin all Microsoft OSes into a guest network.

Many new housing developments were being connected by alternative fibre providers, such as OptiComm and OpenNetworks. For some examples look here: http://www.internode.on.net/residential/fibre_to_the_home/.

Re: Labor's failure

It is very clear from the NBNCo Corporate Plan that beyond 'FTTP will save Labor from Telstra not co-operating', they had very little clue. As you have correctly suggested HFC is perfectly suitable for the majority. In fact if you use Labor's predictions (close to 50% on 12Mbps in 2026) and current fibre connection data (38% on 12Mbps with a further 38% at 25Mbps) FTTN is also adequate.

Further evidence that Labor didn't have a clue comes from the fact that the first NBNCo Corporate Plan listed speed requirements (mostly above 100Mbps for optimal performance, yet they signed off on a plan where very few would see those speeds.

Low volume traffic in rural areas? That requires an expensive build out with a long distance between the base station and device.

We already have mobile phone networks which cover large parts of the country and SMS for sending small pieces of data. If a telco can come up with a plan which enables many devices that support SMS only or a low quota data plan, then I could see that being much quicker to deploy and more viable.

Very nice design. Only thing stopping me purchasing one now is the lack of a mounting point for a camera. I suspect one of the panels that clips on would be the perfect candidate for replacing with a camera mount version.

Appreciation in value

Re: Are humans more cautious around them?

While I can see the fun in playing chicken with a google car I suspect google would have very good documentary evidence of your behaviour.

In local town, the school bus drivers had a simple arrangement with the local police. If a car was seen driving carelessly around the bus, the local constabulary would pay a visit to the driver and scrutinise the car for defects. For most kids their first car was barely roadworthy so finding defects was trivial.

Re: Coalition could fix the speed issue quickly

> My mother is lucky to have FTTP she is on 12/1 which is all she needs.

12Mbps can be easily delivered by HFC, FTTN, 4G and half of ADSL2+ connections. Based on this FTTP is delivering zero benefit. If the speed cap didn't exist then the possibility exists for your mother to explore services that only faster speeds can deliver, but for now they remain unobtainable.

> You would be happy to fork out that extra money to get the speeds like your neighbour can that a $41B network couldn't deliver. Would you say that's $41B dollars well spent.

I see little advantage to Australia in building a network where currently on fibre 38% are connected at 12Mbps, a further 38% are connected at 25Mbps and Labor predicted that in 2028 close to 50% on fibre would be connected at 12Mbps.

Re: Coalition could fix the speed issue quickly

> or are you saying that by removing speed tiers - and assuming capitalism doesn't let me down here - forcing 12Mbit users to pay more for an upto 25Mbit service, or worse pay the same as a 100Mbit user if you remove all tiers

What I'm suggesting is a rebalancing of the charging model from a focus on connection fees (AVC) to data charges (CVC). If connection fees are low, then more people will connect. Once people are connected then they can experience the benefits of broadband and will download more simply because it is possible.

> I'd rather tiered speeds and reliable fibre that can support 100Mbit now, 1Gbit/sec shortly and beyond as central components get updated

I'd also assume you can afford to pay for 100Mbps so you don't really care about the impacts of slower speeds on others. You are happy that others are subsidising your cheap high speed connection. However don't be so certain about your 1Gbps connection. 1Gbps NBNCo have available for order by RSPs since December 2013, but currently not a single RSP is selling them. Further to this Labor predicted that in 2026 less than 1% would have 1Gbps connections.

> I'm also fine with people picking the speed they need. unless you want to pay for anyone on a low income (or government allowances) to get a free upgrade to upto** 100mbit, why not just let them pay less for 12mbit.

12mbps delivers very little benefit over what is currently available. Labor's first corporate plan gave several examples of the benefits and each of them required 100Mbps as a minimum. Secondly if you have high speed and a small quota you can choose when to use it (e.g. eHealth video conference, education, etc.) whereas under NBNCo's pricing model you cannot ask for 100Mbps on Thursday between 2-3pm.

Re: Coalition could fix the speed issue quickly

> Again that now 5% or even to 20% on 100Mbps makes more revenue than the bottom 50% by 4x

This is based purely on AVC pricing, whereas you need to consider the CVC pricing which is the same regardless of speed tiers.

> Wrong on FTTP NBN guarantee the speed to your ISP.

Please attempt to comprehend my comments about PIR in an earlier post. The interconnection between NBNCo an ISP represents a significant bottleneck because of CVC pricing. You may also wish to read some of the information about serious network performance issues caused by netflix traffic. Further to this I suggest reading the terms & conditions of an RSP. Here is a helpful example: http://www.internode.on.net/residential/fibre_to_the_home/nbn_plans/performance/ which includes this statement "Because of these factors, NBN Fibre Broadband services are described as 'theoretical network maximum speeds'. Your actual speeds may be slower due to factors outside of Internode's control."

> If you can get any better speed that what you currently have you either move or pay more than the cost of FTTP as Simon Hackett has stated that the average of FOD is more the FTTP at $4300

At least we agree that moving is a viable option. $4300 is less than 1% of an average house price and cheaper than repainting or a kitchen / bathroom renovation.

> Plus there is currently at least 5 users with 1Gbps connection.

Can you link to the RSP page where I can order one of these connections?

> Sound much like to Telstra of old now.

NBNCo have behaved very much like Telstra since the day they were established. Do some reading on their negotiating strategy with the ACCC and RSPs. In some areas they made Telstra look soft.