_________ __ ___ ___ ______________________
\||||||||\ \/ /|||\__/|||\/||||||||||||||||||||||\
/'''''''''\ \''''''''''/'''''''''''''''''''''''/
/ /~\ \ \___ / ~~~~~~/ ~~~ /
/ /__/ /______/ / _______/ _ _/
/ / / / / \ \
\___________/\__________/\__________/\___/ \___/
______________ ___________ ___ ___ __ ______________________
\|||||||||||||\/|||||||||||\/|||\ /|||\ \/ /||||||||||||||||||||||\
/'''''''''''''/''''''''''''/''''/_/''''/ /'''''''''''''''''''''''/
/ / / / ~~~ / / / ~~~~~~/ ~~~ /
/ /\__/ / ___ / _ _/ / _______/ _ _/
/ / / / / / / / \ \ / / / \ \
\___/ \___/\___/ \___/\___/ \___/ \__________/\___/ \___/
_____ ________________________/\ _________________
/ _ \/ ___/ ___/ ___/ ___/ \/ /__ __/ ___/
/ ____/ / / ___/___ \/ ___/ / / / /___ /
/__/ /__/ /_____/_____/_____/__/\ / /__/ /_____/
\/
___________ _________
/__ __/ /_/ / ___/
/ / / __ / ___/ __ __ __
/__/ /__/ /__/_____/ /_/ /_/ /_/
__ __ ____________ ___
| | | | HHHHHHH HHH
| | | | | HHH HHH HHH sss
| | | | | HHH HHH sssss HHHsss sssss HHH """ sssss sssss
| | | | |__HHH_HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHHHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH
| | | |\__ \HHHHHH" HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH
| | | | | HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH "HHsss
| | | | | HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH sss HHH
| `-' | | HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH
|_______|_____HHH HHH HHHHH HHHhH HHHHH HHH HHH HHHHH HHHHH
.----------------------------------------------.
| |
| INFO FILE ON 16,800 BAUD MODEL! |
| |
| Typed, Hacked & Investigated By: /X\R. YU/ 16.8
I recently purchased a USR HST DS (less than 1 month ago), through the syso
program. I now understand that you are shipping a new HST DS capable of
communicating at 16.8k bps. Will there be any upgrades available to recent
purchasers of your modems? Or some sort of ROM upgrade? I would have waited a
few weeks or so if I had known that there was an enhanced HST DS coming out. I
patiently await your reply...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 2085 *USR Tech Support*
03-11-92 19:55:57
From: ED TAGGART
To: TECH SUPPORT
Subj: HST DS > 16.8K
I was wondering if I could get an answer to the message that I posted
yesterday reguarding upgrades for for the HST DS to the new 16.8k bps modem?
You can call me at 207-799-1138 Thanks!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 2109 *USR Tech Support*
03-12-92 13:11:23
From: LIANG-KUAN YEH
To: ED TAGGART
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2085 (HST DS > 16.8K)
Yes...I would like to know that exact thing....Has USR reply to you
before? I wrote a message about 1 week ago and no reply regarding the new 16.8k
modems....if you find any info on a upgrade or anything...could you please drop
my a line...thanx..
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 2114 *USR Tech Support*
03-12-92 15:41:47
From: JOHN LESTER
To: ED TAGGART
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2085 (HST DS > 16.8K)
Heh...since I know this information, I figure I'll post..
. The NEW 16.8 modems are a TOTALLY different 'breed'..they are smaller
physically....and there is NOT upgrade option to get 16.8 if you have an 'old'
dual or HST...
. Kinda sucks if you bought your modem a month ago...I don't know if USR is
taking 'returns'....I doubt it, tho...
. Now..the BIG question is...when v.fast (19.2K) becomes a reality in a couple
years or so...will the new 16.8 modems (duals, HSTs) be upgradable?....heh heh
heh....
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 779 *US ROBOTICS*
02-13-92 02:13:00
From: DAVID BERNARD
To: ALL
Subj: HST UP-DATE TO 16.8
This is from RIME Conference Host Jim Daly announcement:
I made mention a month or so ago of some new products forthcoming from
the folks in Skokie. I can now give you the details.
There has been some concern amongst the end-Users who had invested in
the HST-14.4 protocol that USR had abandoned them in favor of the new
v.32bis standard. Not true!
US Robotics strikes again with a new HST-14.4 protocol!! Beginning
immediately (product is already in the pipeline), the new HST-14.4 wil
now support transfers at 16,800. ^^^
The new Dual Standards will also support 16,800 on the HST side.
^^^
It is important that everybody understands that the 16,800 can only be
accomplished between the NEW HST-14.4 and DS Modems. There is NO
UPgrade Path nor is one planned! ie: if you have a earlier version
(meaning any unit shipped prior to 2/1/92) of the 14.4 or DS the
maxim connect to the NEW models will be 14,400.
All prices at the Retail Level and the various Demo programs will remain
the same....no increases anticipated.
P.S. The entire Courier line has been redesigned and "DOWNsized".
David says!
NOTE: My comment to it is, I as a HST owner/user am again left on
the outside with no up-grade path possible. It may lengthen the
life of HST and add to USR bottom line but how about current owners!
I feel sold out with no support from USR! Again sell the old and
buy a new one from USR! Hmmm! FYI Later...David
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1016 *US ROBOTICS*
02-14-92 15:58:00
From: BILL UTTER
To: DAVID BERNARD
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 779 (HST UP-DATE TO 16.8)
> NOTE: My comment to it is, I as a HST owner/user am again left on
> the outside with no up-grade path possible. It may lengthen the
> life of HST and add to USR bottom line but how about current owners!
> I feel sold out with no support from USR! Again sell the old and
> buy a new one from USR! Hmmm! FYI Later...David
But when you bought a 2400 was there a path to upgrade it to a
9600. If you have a 9600 V.32 is there a path to upgrade it to a 14400
V.32bis. So that's just life. When you bought your 286 was their a
path to upgrade it to a 386, etc, etc, etc.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1030 *US ROBOTICS*
02-15-92 08:16:00
From: HARDY ROSENKE
To: DAVID BERNARD
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1016 (HST UP-DATE TO 16.8)
* At 02:13 on 92-02-13, David Bernard wrote to All ...
DB> This is from RIME Conference Host Jim Daly announcement:
.... DB> now support transfers at 16,800. ^^^
DB> The new Dual Standards will also support 16,800 on the HST
DB> side.
Thanks for the info! It is both TIMELY and well received as my
order is in the pipeline and my cheque was cashed yesterday!! ... good to know
I am getting a late "birthday" gift from USR!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1053 *US ROBOTICS*
02-17-92 02:17:00
From: DAVID BERNARD
To: BILL UTTER
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1030 (HST UP-DATE TO 16.8)
| But when you bought a 2400 was there a path to upgrade it to a |
| 9600. If you have a 9600 V.32 is there a path to upgrade it to a 14400 |
| V.32bis. So that's just life. When you bought your 286 was their a |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Hey I agree that is life, but there are modem companies (Intel & Hayes)
that I know of that in deed did offer a reasonable up-grades to their
purchasers/users from V.32 to V.32bis! IMHO no matter what US R says
it seems to be a corporate decision for their bottom line not to offer
it so they can sell more modems. Hey when they were the only game in
town they could get away with it, now there are other cheaper options!
I personally hope HST hangs around a lot longer but I got my warning and
learned my lesson new high tech from US R means no up-grade it has
happened so many times. So the new HST 16.8 comes out and 6 to 12
months from now they get a faster better standard, history tell me US R
again will have no up-grade path, it is simple, Buyer Beware & know
what you are going to face in the long run. Knowing that then make
your decision as you may. But just look at US R's past history and you
will see what I mean! Hey, I am a fan but this is not the way to
treat fans by allways leaving us out in the cold! Ltr...David
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1074 *US ROBOTICS*
02-17-92 07:51:00
From: TOM HENDRICKS
To: HARDY ROSENKE
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1053 (RE: HST UP-DATE TO 16.8)
> * At 02:13 on 92-02-13, David Bernard wrote to All ...
> DB> This is from RIME Conference Host Jim Daly announcement:
> .... DB> now support transfers at 16,800.
> ^^^
> DB> The new Dual Standards will also support 16,800 on the HST
> DB> side.
> Thanks for the info! It is both TIMELY
> and well received as my
> order is in the pipeline and my cheque was cashed
> yesterday!! ... good to know I am getting a late
> "birthday" gift from USR!
As far as I know they haven't been officially released or announced by USR yet,
hold on to you hat and see which model actually arrives.
-Tom-
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1094 *US ROBOTICS*
02-15-92 21:38:00
From: JIM BEDICS
To: ALL
Subj: NEW 16.8K (OR WHATEVER) QUESTION......
I just got my 14.4k DS last week, and found it was DOA. So, I sent it
back overnight airmail insured which cost me $40 (which I wasn't too happy
about), to have it serviced. Now, here is my question. If there was a problem
in my chips (where I think the problem was) do you think I will get the new
16.8k chips in there? Or, will they just give me some used chips. Question
#2. Has anyone else ever sent their modem back to USR for a SERIOUS problem (I
m sure somebody has)? Did they "fix" your old modem and send it back, or give
up, and send you a new one. I think mine was beyond hope, as all it did was
blink at me (MR and CD LEDS) 100% of the time. I was hoping they would send me
a new one (which would HOPEFULLY be the 16.8k) but wasn't sure what their
policy on returns/serviced modems was. Thanx for any info.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1127 *US ROBOTICS*
02-18-92 12:59:00
From: STEPHEN HENDRICKS
To: BILL UTTER
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1074 (HST UP-DATE TO 16.8)
On 02-14-92 Bill Utter wrote to David Bernard...
BU> > NOTE: My comment to it is, I as a HST owner/user am again left on
BU> > the outside with no up-grade path possible. It may lengthen the
BU> > life of HST and add to USR bottom line but how about current
BU> owners!
BU> > I feel sold out with no support from USR! Again sell the old and
BU> > buy a new one from USR! Hmmm! FYI Later...David
BU>
BU> But when you bought a 2400 was there a path to upgrade it to a
BU> 9600. If you have a 9600 V.32 is there a path to upgrade it to a 14400
BU> V.32bis. So that's just life. When you bought your 286 was their a
BU> path to upgrade it to a 386, etc, etc, etc.
Are we to be slaves to old technology? Progress does not come with a
guarentee that obsolete technology is going to be adaptable. It is an
absolutely ludicrous idea that USR should have any responsiblity to upgrade
OLD technology when they spend $Millions every year to develope new techniques.
When was the last time GM offered to put a new engine in your car because
the new one had more horsepower and gets better fuel economy? You buy a
new car to get new technology.
The aforementioned buyer should view his modems obsolescence in the manner
which is most benefiscial to him. Namely that because he owns a USR HST
modem it's resale value is great enough to allow him to upgrade (buy
selling it and buying the new modem) at the cheapest possible price. This
method of upgrade ensure that no risk in incurred with changing of
processors, and no delay (other than the ordering delay) occurs if the
modem were returned to the factory for rebuild. It is precisely because
the USR modems have the greatest acceptance in the marketplace for high
speed modems that the investment is secure.
Let's get realistic in this view. The price that an older HST modem
can be sold for, to people still using 1200 and 2400 modems (or
practically any other High Speed modem for that matter),
allows the purchase of new technology modems in a safer and more orderly
fashion than trying to keep track of the dozens of old versions that have
have been produced for the purpose of upgrading them. Unless an upgrade
is a firmware only proposition, the cost is astronomical.
The fact that the USR modem has such wide acceptance is your best guarentee
that your money is wisely invested in ANY USR HST modem.
Use the HST-Sale echo for this purpose.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1133 *US ROBOTICS*
02-18-92 14:00:00
From: STEPHEN HENDRICKS
To: DAVID BERNARD
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1127 (HST UP-DATE TO 16.8)
On 02-17-92 David Bernard wrote to Bill Utter...
DB> Hey I agree that is life, but there are modem companies (Intel & Hayes)
DB> that I know of that in deed did offer a reasonable up-grades to their
DB> purchasers/users from V.32 to V.32bis! IMHO no matter what US R says
Like Groucho you came up with the magic word that both explains your lack
of understanding and why it is NOT reasonable to upgrade many HST modems.
During the last few years, and while maintaining a similar outward
appearance the HST modems were completely redesigned from analog to
digital devices. In some cases upgrades were possible. However, unlike
Hayes, USR has over 100000 of these modems in the field and several
different types. Unlike Intel and Hayes, the USR modems have a VERY high
resale value. It is more practical in most instances, even when there was
an upgrade available (except maybe adding V.42bis to V.42), to sell and
rebuy to attain the NEWEST technology. If you have a Hayes 9600V, what
upgrade path do you have to V.32? Have you seen the Hayes 9600 V.32 that
costs over $1500, did Hayes upgrade that modem? I think not. Hayes
advertises it's 9600 Ultra as compatible with every high speed modem in the
world, but it fails as it won't talk HST, is Hayes going to upgrade it?
I agree with your sentiment, but find that no other company equals USR
support.
DB> it seems to be a corporate decision for their bottom line not to offer
DB> it so they can sell more modems. Hey when they were the only game in
DB> town they could get away with it, now there are other cheaper options!
Actually you do very well on this, cheaper yes! But value: NO! Remember
the 9600V, remember the Hayes 9600 V.32, remember Microcom's MNP10. Better
yet remember the Compucom!
If as you suggest USR was to maintain an upgrade path for older technology
modems, are you willing to take the blame for no forthcoming higher
performance levels. Having to hobble technology in
the guise of upgradability would condemn any company to mediocrity. Have
you seen DrDos 6.0 as compared to MS/Dos 5.0? Maybe you don't see the
similarity in this comparison, but it is likely that mediocrity would win if
your view was prevalent.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1134 *US ROBOTICS*
02-18-92 14:09:00
From: STEPHEN HENDRICKS
To: DAVID BERNARD
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1133 (HST UP-DATE TO 16.8)
DB> Hey Hardy, Apparently, in your case you will do OK. But you will also
DB> have to wait for others to get the new one to use the little extra
DB> 2400/bps, again if US R would offer up-grades to the rest of us we also
DB> could be on even keel at that speed and it would add a better feeling
You don't mention a damned thing about the higher speed being given to new
customers AT NO HIGHER Price. Equally you fail to mention that because of
USR innovation the High Speed modem came into being. And you fail to note
that USR has hundreds of thousands of these modems in the hands of average
users, not corporate mis departments. Keep on kidding yourself that you
have been badly used by USR in not catering to the obsolete technologies
of last year and you will sooner or later convince yourself that some
other modem would do as well. I tried and nearly fooled myself too!
You don't know how much trouble there has been with other modems that use
what I consider to be deliberately misleading advertising. One competitor
ALWAYS uses LINK speed instead of carrier speed in his ads. Another
claims TOTAL modem compatibility, but won't even talk to his own brand
9600 modem or the HST, the world best accepted High Speed modem.
Instead of being satisfied that you have a modem that has genuine resale
value, and is compatible with 100% of the existing modems you moan about
not being compatible with a VAPORWARE modem.
What a crock!... or maybe an alligator!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1153 *US ROBOTICS*
02-19-92 02:19:00
From: DAVID BERNARD
To: STEPHEN HENDRICKS
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1134 (HST UP-DATE TO 16.8)
|You don't mention a damned thing about the higher speed being given to|
|customers AT NO HIGHER Price. Equally you fail to mention that becaus|
|USR innovation the High Speed modem came into being. And you fail to |
|that USR has hundreds of thousands of these modems in the hands of ave|
|users, not corporate mis departments. Keep on kidding yourself that y|
|have been badly used by USR in not catering to the obsolete technologi|
|of last year and you will sooner or later convince yourself that some |
|other modem would do as well. I tried and nearly fooled myself too! |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
I will start off with a Love my US R Dual HST/V.32! But!!! 16.8 HST?
OK the highest non-standard Tech with a street price at 575+ to 775+,
Gee folks will be breaking down the doors to get them as opposed to the
newer V.32bis modems at or below 500? The thousands of HSTs out there
can't be up-graded like I said, my old dual can't be & I am glad that
US R will try to keep HST around for a while but even getting the new
16.8 you have to wait till everybody else gets it to do any faster.
So what is the advantage to 16.8, it has no future since it is not
standard & only limited current use when others get it, and at that
cost too! How many 16.8 HST only modems will be in demand? So based
on past history of US R it may be assumed that these also won't be able
to be up-graded to the next higher speed? That makes it a Lame Duck!
Now if they come out and said we will make these new modems available,
and we will make the Dual up-gradeable to the next faster standard at
reasonable cost, and sell it at a competitve street price then I would
venture to say US R could blow all those others guys out! FYI:
Again from RIME:
|I guess the word "downsized" threw a few folks. Their terminology, not |
|mine. The production code word was v.SMALL |
| |
|What is meant is that the new design is smaller. I've not seen one yet |
|so I don't know how much smaller. COurier will remain the premium |
|category in their lineup of product: |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
I don't feel I have been used by US R, I just will make my decision
on the next modem based on the Tech available, price, and the ability
to up-grade in the future for even faster if and when it comes out.
The lowest price is not the main element but a reasonable competitve
one is important. The message I get from US R is that they are more
interested in selling more new modems then up-grading present ones,
and that is fine but the Buyer Beware should be known and then do as
you/I may from that point. That is what I plan to be doing and any
consumer that really does their research and cares for the future I
believe will also doing a similar thing. I may in fact buy another
US R but I won't do it blindly just because it is US R, they will
have to earn my next purchase, and not live on their past reputation!
Ltr..David
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1374 *US ROBOTICS*
02-25-92 18:21:00
From: MIKE DRUMMOND
To: LARRY NESBITT
Subj: NEW 16.8K (OR WHATEVER) Q
LNHH>MD=>JBHH> I just got my 14.4k DS last week, and found it was DOA.
LNHH> When I read your message..'Boy' did it hit the nail on the head!
LNHH>I had just purchased the HST 14.4 courier back in May of 89 and found that
LNHH>the modem would not run properly. So I followed the instruction and calle
LNHH>the support line. They were very curtious, pleasent, and understanding of
LNHH>my problem and gave me a shipment number. I retured this modem in the
LNHH>proper packaging and sent it first class 'thinking it will come back soone
LNHH>well time passed and I called the support toll-free 800 number and they
LNHH>refered me to the tech's that were working on the modem. Again they were
LNHH>very pleasent...but no modem. After three weeks, I finally got a notice
LNHH>that my system would be sent in a couple of days. I finially got it a
LNHH>week later 'second day service'. It cost me with shipping, handling,
LNHH>and insurance $38.50. Well after installing it...I thought things were
LNHH>great!!! Well, it didn't last but a month and the modem did the same thin
LNHH>so I call the support people up again...they checked it out and then gave
LNHH>a number........Well after sending it in a couple of other times they did
LNHH>correct the problem....it was a loose screew in the mother board of the
LNHH>modem. Well, to make this long story short...it finially cost me over $90
LNHH>and months of waiting and runing my system at the slow cps of 2400 baud.
LNHH> I really do like the HST and will by another, but your story struc
LNHH>a bell and I thought I would mention mine. Better luck in the future!
LNHH> Larry....
Well you have more patience than i do. I bought a ZyXel modem and the
support they provide is outstanding. I am afraid that i have bought my
last USRobotics modem. They sat on there behinds to long patting
themselves on the back while the compitition left them behind
(Concerning service anyways).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1376 *US ROBOTICS*
02-23-92 10:52:00
From: MANUEL WENGER
To: ALL
Subj: HST 16.8K ETC
Hi everybody!
I've read some messages in this area about the new HST (and Dual) which is
smaller and has the HST 16.8K modulation. I've called the USRobotics BBS, but
even their BBS only supports HST 14.4K (and of course V32bis etc). Now, is this
HST 16.8K only a "rumor" or is it true? And HOW MUCH does it cost if I DO NOT
buy it with the Sysop Deal? And WITH the sysop deal? And is an upgrade from
an...er.."old" Dual to the new one with HST 16.8K possible or not?
byby
Manuel
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1383 *US ROBOTICS*
02-25-92 13:34:00
From: KLAAS HAMBOERGER
To: DAVID BERNARD
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1153 (HST UP-DATE TO 16.8)
Hello,
> |RE: the above subject line..I called USR yesterday and they |
> |said there was no fastermodem available at this time. The |
> |only changes at present was SIZE ONLY of both the DS and |
> |the HST. |
> +-------------------------------------------------------------+
As far as I know, the v.small models have only as much horsepower as the
current models: A 80188/16 and the one ore two signal processors. Is that
right? If so, the "older" duals mit v.32bis should be able to deliver the 16.8k
HST-speed. If this is true, it must be possible for USR to offer an update by
only changing the ROMs. If this is right, USR only doesn't want to update,
although they could. If not, the new models must have some improvement in
processing speed. Does anybody have the exact specifications? If the new models
are as slow as the current ones and USR doesn't offer an update, they just are
to "lazy" or so to make the firmware of the new generation fitting for the
modems you get today.
Something to the car-example: If a new car is being developed and you are
interested in cars you know at least half a year before the official
announcement that it will come, because you can read about it in car magazines.
Another fact is, that you know how long the current model is on the market. If
it was released in 1990, you know for sure, that there will be no successor
before 1994 or later. So you can plan exactly when it is wise to buy a new car.
With modems this is completely different. My dual standard was delivered on the
10th of january. When I ordered, I thought, that my new modems would be up to
date for some time. At this time USR said, that no new model would be released
in the next time. If I had known, that they were already going to release the
v.small-models in february/march I wouldn't have ordered at this time! I think,
that USRs behaviour isn't very fair. It was hard to save enough money to buy
the modem. Now it is only one month old and already antiquated.
Ciao, Klaas
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1428 *US ROBOTICS*
02-27-92 11:46:00
From: STEPHEN HENDRICKS
To: MANUEL WENGER (Rcvd)
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1376 (HST 16.8K ETC)
On 02-23-92 Manuel Wenger wrote to All...
MW> I've read some messages in this area about the new HST (and
MW> Dual) which is smaller and has the HST 16.8K modulation.
MW> I've called the USRobotics BBS, but even their BBS only
MW> supports HST 14.4K (and of course V32bis etc). Now, is this
MW> HST 16.8K only a "rumor" or is it true? And HOW MUCH does
We play a game every year with US Robotics where they announce at Comdex
or some other venue that they intend to come out with a new product. Then
a variety of "reliable sources" start to give out contradictory
information about dates, specifications etc. Last week USR has dropped
the word that the new modems are supposed to ship on 3/2/92. But they
also said they would ship on 2/1/92. So this is an announcement that
could prove as false as the previous one. I suspect they will delay
until distributor stocks are down, and the new modems are actually needed
for shipments to distributors.
MW> it cost if I DO NOT buy it with the Sysop Deal? And WITH
MW> the sysop deal? And is an upgrade from an...er.."old" Dual
MW> to the new one with HST 16.8K possible or not?
Sysop's deal on a Dual Standard is $499. This is not an upgrade of an
older modem. It is a completely NEW design, with 16800 dce and 57,600 dte
rates. It is also approximately Half the size of the older modems.
There have been more than a dozen different USR HST modems, most bear the
same name as the predecessor and are in reality radically different
inside. When massive changes are made, there is no realistic expectation
of an upgrade.
Currently USR HST modems have a VERY High resale value. Judging from the
HST-Sale echo, the modems are in great demand. If you have an older
modem, there will be no difficulty in selling it, and purchasing the new
design for much less than the cost of a "so-called" upgrade.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1430 *US ROBOTICS*
02-27-92 12:00:00
From: STEPHEN HENDRICKS
To: MIKE DRUMMOND
Subj: NEW 16.8K (OR WHATEVER)
MD> Well you have more patience than i do. I bought a ZyXel modem and the
MD> support they provide is outstanding. I am afraid that i have bought my
MD> last USRobotics modem. They sat on there behinds to long patting
Then you have no reason to be entering messages in this echo. Start you
own if you like, but you have no need of the technical support this echo
was founded to provide.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1434 *US ROBOTICS*
02-27-92 12:15:00
From: STEPHEN HENDRICKS
To: KLAAS HAMBOERGER
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1383 (HST UP-DATE TO 16.8)
KH> would be released in the next time. If I had known, that
KH> they were already going to release the v.small-models in
KH> february/march I wouldn't have ordered at this time! I
KH> think, that USRs behaviour isn't very fair. It was hard to
KH> save enough money to buy the modem. Now it is only one
KH> month old and already antiquated.
The new modems were talked about at Comdex last fall (November ?) So for
those with access to industry wide news, it was no surprise. USR is like
Porsche, they are constantly making improvements without regard to model
years. If you have been involved with automobiles, especially in the USA
the makers constantly change the internal components. A typcial auto made
in one year might have four different make axles in it for example.
It is probably a greater problem to upgrade in Europe than here, but we
have little problem upgrading from one modem to the next due to a very
high resale value. Sorry that this happens, but I think it is best that
as soon as new technology is available, it be introduced.
The V.Small series is half the size, with different construction than some
previous modems. If the new DCE rate is 16,800.. there is no guarentee or
even a reasonable expectation that a rom upgrade would provide a similar
improvement in an older design. USR has made the V.42bis upgrade
available at very reasonable cost in a past upgrade which involved
software only. This is not an upgrade to V.Small but an entirely new
modem series, and as such it is not reasonable to expect USR to redesign
an older series to equal a new design.
Do you think Porsche would upgrade existing 356s?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1456 *US ROBOTICS*
02-26-92 14:15:00
From: HARDY ROSENKE
To: DAVID BERNARD
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1434 (HST UP-DATE TO 16.8)
DB> Hey Hardy, The past is the past, but the future is what I will
DB> spend my hard own money on for a my next modem. If US R holds to
DB> the no up-grades for the next line to come that is fine but I won't
DB> spend it on 16.8 HST with the known fact that faster is coming.
DB> Since no current HST can't be up-graded to 16.8 and if the new
DB> line won't up-gradeable (maybe it will!) then IHMO what USR is
DB> doing is trying to hold on to market position with a stop gap
DB> measure, and I choose not to buy it. If by chance they do come out
DB> with 16.8 and say that the new one will have an up-grade path to the
DB> next higher speed at a reasonable cost then I would get one ASAP!
Okay, I think that we are in agreement here. Perhaps what is needed is
for current owners of USR products and all 'potential' owners of USR products
to put a little pressure on USR to make sure that the upgrade path is
available. I would certainly think that they would want to stay competitive,
offer SysOps good deals and keep the consumers happy! I share your
sentiments.. what good is a 16.8K modem if it has no one to connect with at
that speed?? I have used that arguement on people that have asked my advice
on buying >choke< CompuCom modems -- what the heck would they connect with???
Perhaps it is time for owners of USR products to actively lobby USR to make
and continue to make models that are upgradeable so that "Joe Average" does
not have to sell his USR DS 16.8K modem in 1994 and go out an buy a new 100K
USR Triple Standard.....
DB> I am glad US R is trying to keep HST around, but I don't think the
DB> masses will buy it at the latest prices.
This is true, but looking out there at what the users/sysops OWN, it is
fairly obvious that HST is here to stay for a while, or people's HST's will
start connecting at only 2400 if people start switching to cheaper brands.
Granted, I would like to see price reductions to see more of my users being
able to connect at high speeds to me, and I would like to call more other
boards at high speed, but where will that speed come from? I want cheaper
prices, but I do not want to have to buy 3 or 4 DIFFERENT modems to be able to
take advantage of all of the protocols out there.... it is as insane as
"standardization" [lack of] of BBS and mailer software.... or archivers for
that matter.... everytime a new one pops up, WHAM! There goes at least
another 200K of drive space.....
DB> not meet consumer demand. I hope US R does & what they will be
DB> offering soon will be attractive to the modem public in both Tech &
DB> Price, IMHO there past marketing plan needs adjustments for the current
DB> & soon to be competition. Hey, they can continue as is and they will
DB> sell modems but they will lose market share & that equates to lost
DB> bottom line.
This is very true.... perhaps they should be talking to you as a
potential "SALES" person! I would love to see their prices drop say
10%.... that would, even though it is not much, be a start ..... I do feel,
however, that quality is worth paying a little bit more for. I can buy an
"ABC-brand" modem for half the cost, but if it lasts only a third of the time
as a USR, and is down all the time, then I would rather have spent more
upfront for a better product!
Hardy
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1457 *US ROBOTICS*
02-26-92 14:32:00
From: HARDY ROSENKE
To: STEPHEN HENDRICKS
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1456 (HST UP-DATE TO 16.8)
SH> You will be allowed to buy a modem/s under specified conditions for
SH> less than many dealers can buy a modem for. You will have NO dealer
SH> support whatsover, other than what a dealer feels like doing for free
SH> (usually nothing).
I was well aware of this, but I feel that you are unnecessarily
painting all dealers with the same brush. I have talked to several out here
that have gone out of their way to help SysOps with 'tempramental' USR
modems.... and that seems to be more of the norm than the exception. Granted,
they will not "replace" a modem for you, but they WILL send it out for repairs
thru their channels [which often times beats the send in service]
and will charge less money than POSTAGE for it... Maybe this is not so in the
US, but one thing is for sure... sending stuff thru the mail in Canada and
insuring it costs an arm and two legs....
SH> Unlike the normal customer your modem will be delivered out of USR
SH> Stocks in Chicago. This means that you will receive the most up to
SH> date modem that is being manufactured. You will not get a one year old
SH> model out of some warehouse, as you could buying as the public does.
SH> You will not necessarily get prompt service. You are not dealing with
SH> a an organization that has a sale staff that caters to individuals.
That is an interesting fact which I did not know... I thought that they
would be pushing out their old inventory before the new, regardless of WHO or
WHAT the customer was. Granted that USR is not set up to deal with
individuals (per se) but they DO have a department to deal with SysOps, which
in my opinion is nice. The service seems to be prompt enough though,
especially when paying my personal cheque....it is nothing longer than would
be expected ordering thru a mail-order house....
SH> Too many people fail to appreciate the several hundreds of dollars
SH> they save, and the fact that they are circumventing the normal support
SH> procedures! If you want better turnaround time on orders, then buy
SH> from your dealer, like NORMAL people.
First: *_I_AM_NOT_NORMAL!!_* Second: I do not like the tone that is
inferred in this, and I hope that you did not mean it the way that I am
reading it.... Third: "circumventing normal support procedures"??? Well, let
me just say that they had BETTER support my modem just the same as anybody
elses!!! Hundreds of dollars? Yes, I am saving that, but mainly becuase I am
buying direct.... not paying shipping costs that a DEALER would incur... I am
also not paying a stocking fee or a warehousing fee and the money I am paying
is not going into a salesman's pocket! I worked in the computer industry and
a markup of 40-50% on certain products is the NORM!! I can safely say that I
am paying only slightly more for my modem direct from USR than a dealer
ordering a GROSS of them would pay.... Turnaround time, yes, I could go out
and buy a DS this afternoon for $800... or wait here and get one shipped to me
from USR for $550..... I can wait.
Hardy
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1459 *US ROBOTICS*
02-28-92 02:28:00
From: DAVID BERNARD
To: STEPHEN HENDRICKS
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1428 (HST 16.8K ETC)
|Currently USR HST modems have a VERY High resale value. Judging from
|HST-Sale echo, the modems are in great demand. If you have an older
+----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey Stephen, Where is this confer available? Maybe some special deals
to come if 16.8 comes out & SYSOPs want to up-grade, but we don't get
that confer around New Orleans & I have heard others asking too.
Well thanks for the help. Ltr....David
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1465 *US ROBOTICS*
02-26-92 23:14:00
From: TOM SMITH @ 930/201
To: MANUEL WENGER (Rcvd)
Subj: HST 16.8K ETC.
Manuel, the new "V.Small" USRobotics Courier line's more than a rumor.
There's some indication that it's shipping now. Others indicate that it
may not actually make it into the supply pipeline until late March. I
guess we won't know for sure that they're out there until someone posts
that his has arrived.
As for the prices, they're currently the same as the "current" Courier
line. This'd mean that the HST Dual Standard, which's the only modem
with HST that I'd recommend buying new, would run you about $500 through
the SysOp Deal and about $750 retail. If you buy the latter, make sure
that the dealer you're dealing with has the new ones in stock and won't
be shipping you one of the current models. Sorry, but USR's not
offering any kind of an upgrade to current HST users. I'd suggest that
you hold off on buying one until next year's V.fast models come out. I
don't think that you'd find the extra 2,400 bps in HST mode worth what
it'd cost you to upgrade. In fact, until lots more of them ship, it'd
not do you ANY good at all...
Tom Smith/Dallas...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1476 *US ROBOTICS*
02-27-92 13:25:00
From: TOM SMITH @ 930/1
To: KLAAS HAMBOERGER
Subj: UP-DATE TO 16.8
Klass, the new "V.Small" USRobotics Courier line uses newer, more integrated,
chips than the current line does. Its processors have significantly more
"horsepower." Whether or not all of its power'll be fully "harnessed" at
initial release only USR knows. There may be more tricks, such as V.fast, in
that new box than we'll know about for some time to come. This increased
processing capability also explains why a simple firmware upgrade won't take
current Courier models up to the forthcoming 16.8 kb HST mode speed.
Personally, I'm not a bit worried about that. Until a boatload of them ship,
it's completely worthless in the first place. Second, the extra 2,400 bps
doesn't impress me a bit. I'll be more than happy to truck along at 14,400
until V.fast ships in a year or so.
By the way, these new integrated circuits could explain why the clock speed's
increased, too. We won't really know until some user gets his hands on one and
reports on it in detail...
Tom Smith/Dallas...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1490 *US ROBOTICS*
02-28-92 09:30:00
From: BOB GERMER
To: STEPHEN HENDRICKS
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1457 (RE: HST UP-DATE TO 16.8)
SH> The new modems were talked about at Comdex last fall (November ?) So for
SH> those with access to industry wide news, it was no surprise. USR is like
SH> Porsche, they are constantly making improvements without regard to model
SH> years. If you have been involved with automobiles, especially in the USA
SH> the makers constantly change the internal components. A
SH> typcial auto made
SH> in one year might have four different make axles in it for example.
In one YEAR? I have an 85 Horizon which we bought new. The left axle was made
by TRW. The right somewhere in Canada. I know because the constant velocity
joint boots differ depending on who made the axle. I had to have the left one
replaced because it tore and decided to do the right at the same time. The
mechanic ordered a left and right boot for the part number on the left axle.
The right boot wouldn't fit!
Bob
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1491 *US ROBOTICS*
02-28-92 15:10:00
From: LARRY NESBITT
To: MIKE DRUMMOND
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1374 (NEW 16.8K (OR WHATEVER) Q)
MD> Well you have more patience than i do. I bought a ZyXel
MD> modem and the
MD> support they provide is outstanding. I am afraid that i have
MD> bought my
MD> last USRobotics modem. They sat on there behinds to long
MD> patting
MD> themselves on the back while the compitition left them
MD> behind
MD> (Concerning service anyways).
Like I said in the first message, I love my 14.4 hst modem and
wouldn't change for the world! Now, I must admit that I encountered
a problem with the service...but they stood by their product and sent
me at no cost for service and return mail the finished product. Where
I had a complaint was in shiping my modem to them....with insurance and
mailing not to mention packaging....it cost me (after four times) over
$90 dollars. This all could have been taken care of if the tech. would
have noticed the loose screw on one of the connections. I know it doesn't
sound very professional, but I can assure you that its still the very best
modem on the market and I for one will continue to use nothing but US
Robotics modems. Talk to you later and if your ZyXel modem is as good
as you say, how come I haven't heard of them? But that is in another
echo please...Or.....Net mail.
Larry......
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1509 *US ROBOTICS*
02-28-92 02:28:00
From: DAVID BERNARD
To: HARDY ROSENKE
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1490 (HST UP-DATE TO 16.8)
|HR> Perhaps it is time for owners of USR products to |
|actively lobby USR to make and continue to make models |
|that are upgradeable so that "Joe Average" does not have |
|to sell his USR DS 16.8K modem in 1994 and go out an buy a |
|new 100K USR Triple Standard..... |
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
Well Hardy, I belive we both agree, but I also learned what USR's
market thrust is and it is not the SYSOP/Users of BBS. I think that
segmet is importnat to USR, but I don't think we have the $ to sway
the company policy or their bottom line. As I see it USR can get their
price from corp/bus/govt market and make good money from it, why should
USR bend to the wishes of a much smaller market that does not really
make a big contribution to their bottom line by offering to lower
prices & offer up-grades to current modems when they can sell more
new modems at their own prices to biz? Now I really don't know exactly
what their sales marketing is, but I don't think they sell directly to
dealers either in the chain and if that is so it adds to the eventual
cost to the public too. Some of the other modem companies I have heard
do sell direct to dealers & skip the distribution middle fellows.
I belive the BBSs segment is important to USR for the ad & name
up-front on it & all the devoted people, it's much better then taking
out ads in the PC Rags, that's my IMHO! I figure they don't lose on
selling to SYSOPs direct since it does not go thru dealer net, but also
most users can't afford to pay $550 to $800 for USR modems & IMHO USR
really does not want those masses and will allow that segment to go to
newer cheaper modems to come rather then lower their prices to theirs!
Did you see that business dude in here who complained USR would not
sell him direct & who was willing to pay $1200 List to get 16.8 now,
so we can't expect USR to listen to us about reducing prices. Hey the
biz & govt customers just pass it along to the customers or taxpayers
& they want faster speed now and not 1 or 2 years from now and will pay
top $ for it now. I am not gonna fight or argue with it, I fully
understand it but I don't agree with it but that is not gonna up-set
USR if I don't buy one either. IMHO, I think a small price decrease
similar to what you said is gonna come along as a bone for lower market
and eventual cheaper V.32bis coming out, but they got the biz guys hot
for the plucking now on 16.8 and they will make them pay for it!
BTW, we don't get voting rights with them unless you have some stock!
I have been happy & still am with older Dual HST/V.32 and maybe I can
get a deal on the "New old Dual" HST/V32bis from SYSOP who can't live
without 16.8. I cried my eyes out already and now I realize where I
fit on the list with USR's bottom line 1st. Good Luck.. Ltr...David
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1577 *US ROBOTICS*
02-29-92 13:47:00
From: MIKE DRUMMOND
To: STEPHEN HENDRICKS
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1430 (NEW 16.8K (OR WHATEVER))
SHHH> MD> Well you have more patience than i do. I bought a ZyXel modem and the
SHHH> MD> support they provide is outstanding. I am afraid that i have bought m
SHHH> MD> last USRobotics modem. They sat on there behinds to long patting
SHHH>Then you have no reason to be entering messages in this echo. Start you
SHHH>own if you like, but you have no need of the technical support this echo
SHHH>was founded to provide.
I didn't mean to p@ss in anybodys wheaties. I was expressing my views on
USRobotics. and while i do not plan to purchase from USR agian i do have
a number of HSTs and therefore i do find this echo very helpfull. I like
the product that USR puts out but the merchandise is only half of the
formula the other half is support and this is where USR falls flat on
there face.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1607 *US ROBOTICS*
02-29-92 12:25:00
From: TOM SMITH @ 930/1
To: DAVID BERNARD
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1465 (HST 16.8K ETC.)
David, HST_SALE's carried on the FIDONet Backbone and should be easily
available to your or your SysOp. In fact, it's my understanding that both HST
and HST_SALE must be carried if either's on the board. I may be wrong on this;
I could be confusing them with the hard disk Echos.
If you're looking, I'd suggest that you also pick up MODEM_SALE and HS_MODEM.
I've seen the former mentioned but have never seen a board I use carry it. I'm
a regular reader and poster on the latter; it covers all high-speed modems.
Good Readin'...
Tom Smith/Dallas...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1611 *US ROBOTICS*
03-01-92 00:33:00
From: JASON BUCHANAN
To: ALL
Subj: DUAL STANDARD V.32BIS AND HST 16.8KBS
Hello!
I have been reading this echo with interest for several weeks with only sparse
hopes that USR has released their Dual Standard modems with the HST 16.8Kbps
mode.
Would someone kindly confirm whether USR has indeed started to ship Dual
Standard V.32bis/HST 16.8Kbps modems, or if USR is waiting at a later date to
announce them?
Many thanks in advance,
Jason Buchanan
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1612 *US ROBOTICS*
02-28-92 23:09:00
From: DENNIS DOMAZET
To: KLAAS HAMBOERGER
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1509 (HST UP-DATE TO 16.8)
* On 02-25-92, Klaas Hamboerger smashed keys to David Bernard about:
KH> think, that USRs behaviour isn't very fair. It was hard to
KH> save enough money to buy the modem. Now it is only one month
KH> old and already antiquated.
(I couldn't quote your whole message because it was too long, but I think that
you remember what you wrote).
I agree totally with you. Let me narrate my own experience with USR.
Last October, I purchased a USR HST 14400 with v.42bis, the newest HST they had
on the market. On the box that I purchased the modem in, it clearly stated, in
two separate places, that the modem was upgradable to dual standard v.32 with
"modules" that could be purchased from USR. That is one of the main reasons
that I bought this modem, that the package stated that it could easily be
upgraded.
Then I discovered that I needed v.32 capability, so I called and wrote USR
about purchasing this module. They told me that it had been "discontinued". I
found this fascinating, since the modem's chip dates were late August of 1991.
I was very upset that USR would explicitly state on their package that the
modem could be upgraded and then discontinue the upgrade so quickly.
Now, the only thing I can do is purchase another modem. I had faith that I
would not need to spend a great deal of money to be able to use v.32, but I
guess that I was wrong. I like the HST, I think it is a fantastic product, but
USR's customer support leaves much to be desired. It really is unfortunate
that something like this could happen. When I do buy a new modem, I regret to
say that it will definitely NOT be a USR product again...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1655 *US ROBOTICS*
03-01-92 14:11:00
From: MIKE DRUMMOND
To: LARRY NESBITT
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1491 (NEW 16.8K (OR WHATEVER) Q)
LNHH> Like I said in the first message, I love my 14.4 hst modem and
LNHH>wouldn't change for the world! Now, I must admit that I encountered
LNHH>a problem with the service...but they stood by their product and sent
LNHH>me at no cost for service and return mail the finished product. Where
LNHH>I had a complaint was in shiping my modem to them....with insurance and
LNHH>mailing not to mention packaging....it cost me (after four times) over
LNHH>$90 dollars. This all could have been taken care of if the tech. would
LNHH>have noticed the loose screw on one of the connections. I know it doesn't
LNHH>sound very professional, but I can assure you that its still the very best
LNHH>modem on the market and I for one will continue to use nothing but US
LNHH>Robotics modems. Talk to you later and if your ZyXel modem is as good
LNHH>as you say, how come I haven't heard of them? But that is in another
LNHH>echo please...Or.....Net mail.
In the end all that really matter is that we are happy with the
purchases we have made and all in all i am by no means an anti USR
advocate. As a matter of fact i usually recommend them to my users due
to the widespread use of HSTs. Although i must say it would sure be nice
if everything could talk to everything else.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1659 *US ROBOTICS*
03-01-92 07:23:00
From: TOM HENDRICKS
To: KLAAS HAMBOERGER
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1612 (RE: HST UP-DATE TO 16.8)
> behaviour isn't very fair. It was hard to save enough
> money to buy the modem. Now it is only one month old and
> already antiquated.
Although it still works every bit as much as before. Still provides the same
excellent performance, etc.
It is not antiquated. BTW: A new model will always be "On the way" at almost
any manufacturer I know of.
-Tom-
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1663 *US ROBOTICS*
03-01-92 07:34:00
From: TOM HENDRICKS
To: STEPHEN HENDRICKS
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1659 (RE: HST UP-DATE TO 16.8)
> previous modems. If the new DCE rate is
> 16,800.. there is no guarentee or
This is a misuse of the term DCE (it means Data Communications Equipment, and
DTE means Data Terminal Equipment, and it specifies the wiring used in the
serial connection - has nothing to do with bps carrier rate.).
-Tom-
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1682 *US ROBOTICS*
03-01-92 23:28:00
From: STEPHEN HENDRICKS
To: HARDY ROSENKE
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1663 (HST UP-DATE TO 16.8)
HR> I was well aware of this, but I feel that you
HR> are unnecessarily painting all dealers with the same
Possibly, but that is rapidly becoming the norm as the vast majority of
"computer dealers" in this area are closing and locking their doors to the mass
market. So a dealer is not very likely to support a product he did not sell.
That will depend on an individuals relationship with his dealer. A
relationship that is a good one will tend not to have the customer buying
direct from the maker. I used to work for such a dealer, and their doors are
now locked to the public.
SH> Unlike the normal customer your modem will be delivered out of USR
SH> Stocks in Chicago. This means that you will receive the most up to
HR> That is an interesting fact which I did not
HR> know... I thought that they would be pushing out their
HR> old inventory before the new, regardless of WHO or
HR> WHAT the customer was. Granted that USR is not set up
I won't assert that is a fact. But I believe it is normal business practise to
ship down old stocks first. Any company today that is not on lifo accounting
is in terrible danger. USRs customers are distributors. Distributors seldom
have special needs for new "trick" modems. The distributors also buy is mass
minimizing freight, labor and handling expenses.
SH> they save, and the fact that they are circumventing the normal support
SH> procedures! If you want better turnaround time on orders, then buy
SH> from your dealer, like NORMAL people.
HR> First: *_I_AM_NOT_NORMAL!!_* Second: I do not like the tone that
No sysop is normal. We get special handling as the prima donnas we frequently
are. Most are however just normal people who can't really afford the NORMAL
price of a DS modem. You complain about the way of doing business associated
with buying direct at a tremendous discount, that is a choice you have made.
Normal buyers don't get such priviledges! You have the choice to buy through
normal channels, and to get the better support associated with buying from an
authorized dealer. Is it worth the extra $300 to be slightly inconvenienced?
HR> is inferred in this, and I hope that you did not mean
There is no inference other than I don't think there is room to complain so
much considering a nearly 50% discount that is attained soley on the basis of
being a Sysop (and one that is apparently critical of the procedures involved
in producing World Class Leading edge technology).
HR> it the way that I am reading it.... Third:
HR> "circumventing normal support procedures"??? Well,
HR> let me just say that they had BETTER support my modem
They will obviously, but normal support procedures when I sell a modem involves
immediate exchange for a new one, if there is a defect, and free shipping both
ways, with me doing all the LD phone charges. Is that worth $300 to you?
HR> just the same as anybody elses!!! Hundreds of
HR> dollars? Yes, I am saving that, but mainly becuase I
HR> am buying direct.... not paying shipping costs that a
HR> DEALER would incur... I am
The dealer pays just as much as you do for freight (other than volume
shipments). If you knew how much a dealer really made on a modem, you wouldn't
wonder why so many of them don't provide support any longer. My former
employee instructed me to charge no less than $70 per hour for support of any
kind! Buying direct is a temendous burden on a manufacturer who has to hire a
support staff to ship single units all over the country. Even if USR sold the
modems to Sysops for $100 over production costs, they easily lose that much on
the labor to process the order and put the modem in a shipping container and
ship it. My former company told us (sales reps) that it cost no less than $30
to generate an invoice, and just watch the shipping people pack things like
single modems. You can see that USR is being VERY good to Sysops for the
positive PR they get from it.
HR> also not paying a stocking fee or a warehousing fee and
HR> the money I am paying
HR> is not going into a salesman's pocket! I worked in the
HR> computer industry and
USR doesn't pay stocking fees or warehousing fees either. I think you are
confusing the role of the distributors and that of the manufacturer. Even with
$300 built in to the dealer, after paying shipping and two sets of handling and
invoice charges, net 30 expenses, and possibly salaries and commissions a
company wouldn't be making much money on an item.
HR> a markup of 40-50% on certain products is the NORM!! I
HR> can safely say that I
HR> am paying only slightly more for my modem direct from
HR> USR than a dealer ordering a GROSS of them would
In the electronics industry a margin to list price of 40-50% is normal. The
discussion here has been in relation to the lowest possible prices, not normal
selling prices. If you purchased a DS from a dealer at a normal price of $975
then you would certainly be entitled to major support from that dealer. When
we start talking in terms of giveaway prices from mail order houses, you get
what you pay for. It also sounds as if you have neglected at least one level
of distribution, because the markups are not 40-50 in the real world at all.
HR> pay.... Turnaround time, yes, I could go out and buy
HR> a DS this afternoon for $800... or wait here and get
HR> one shipped to me from USR for $550..... I can wait.
The prudent thing to do. I just think we are lucky to have USR around!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1683 *US ROBOTICS*
03-01-92 23:50:00
From: STEPHEN HENDRICKS
To: DAVID BERNARD
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1459 (HST 16.8K ETC)
DB> |Currently USR HST modems have a VERY High resale value. Judging from
DB> |HST-Sale echo, the modems are in great demand. If you have an older
DB> +----------------------------------------------------------------------
DB> Hey Stephen, Where is this confer available? Maybe some special deals
DB> to come if 16.8 comes out & SYSOPs want to up-grade, but we don't get
DB> that confer around New Orleans & I have heard others asking too.
DB> Well thanks for the help. Ltr....David
I'll see if I can find out for you. We have it here in Baltimore, but many
areas don't carry all those confusing similar sounding echo names.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1688 *US ROBOTICS*
03-02-92 00:24:00
From: STEPHEN HENDRICKS
To: MIKE DRUMMOND
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1577 (NEW 16.8K (OR WHATEVER))
MD> formula the other half is support and this is where USR falls flat on
MD> there face.
While I certainly understand how you feel, the course you have decided on is
prudent. If however you do have a problems you can call on me for help with it
as I am authorized as a USR dealer and will help anyone who needs it. I can
not guarentee to do anything more than anyone else, except try. If what
happened to you happened to me, I would have had it taken to the very top of
USR management, quickly.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1724 *US ROBOTICS*
03-01-92 23:25:00
From: GEORGE PARDUE
To: DENNIS DOMAZET
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1682 (RE: HST UP-DATE TO 16.8)
-=> Quoting Dennis Domazet to Klaas Hamboerger <=-
DD> Last October, I purchased a USR HST 14400 with v.42bis, the newest HST
DD> they had on the market. On the box that I purchased the modem in, it
DD> clearly stated, in two separate places, that the modem was upgradable
DD> to dual standard v.32 with "modules" that could be purchased from USR.
DD> That is one of the main reasons that I bought this modem, that the
DD> package stated that it could easily be upgraded.
DD> Then I discovered that I needed v.32 capability, so I called and wrote
DD> USR about purchasing this module. They told me that it had been
DD> "discontinued". I found this fascinating, since the modem's chip
DD> dates were late August of 1991. I was very upset that USR would
DD> explicitly state on their package that the modem could be upgraded and
DD> then discontinue the upgrade so quickly.
DD> Now, the only thing I can do is purchase another modem. I had faith
DD> that I would not need to spend a great deal of money to be able to use
DD> v.32, but I guess that I was wrong.
Dennis, You might want to talk to your state Attorney General's office.
Or even Federal Attorney General's Office if you bought it mail order.
And the office of your Governor, and President Bush, and a few congressmen.
Also, follow up with letters to each of them, with a copy to the
president of the company that wronged you.
Hope you kept the box which has the upgrade info on it. Send a Xerox
copy of the message on the box also.
It's often amazing how companies can change their minds, "in light
of new facts which just came to our attention".
Talk atcha later,
George
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1726 *US ROBOTICS*
03-02-92 10:42:00
From: TOM SMITH
To: DENNIS DOMAZET
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1724 (RE: HST UP-DATE TO 16.8)
Dennis, did your HST with the upgradable labels on it come from
USRobotics directly? If it came from a dealer, there's a good chance
that it was sitting on his shelf for quite a while. If that's the case,
then the wise thing to do would have been to either get a solid
guarantee from him that the upgrade was available or check with USR on
it yourself. If it came from USR, then I'd agree that you have a very
legitimate reason to squawk, especially if you asked about the upgrade
and was told by the USR sales rep that it was available. If it came
from a dealer and you didn't take the needed steps to protect yourself,
then all I can say is to remember the next time: Buyer Beware.
There're plenty of warnings on nearly every piece of literature attached
to a device which plainly state "Subject to Change" or some derivative
of this. What it means is that a company can, and does, change its
specifications on a regular basis. With this, I never ASSume that a
device'll be the way it's advertised unless I check with the company and
get some solid guarantees on the thing.
Now, for some suggestions on upgrading. First, if I remember, the HST
USR upgraded for me cost something like $400. This's no great bargain,
especially when you can now buy V.32bis-class machines for betweenn
$3-400 which can include such bonus points as FAX and voice mail
capabilities. You can easily sell your HST for enough to buy one of
these puppies brand-new on the HST_SALE Echo. You can also buy one of
them and a serial switch or port for less than it'd cost you to upgrade
in the first place. Second, if you really want to upgrade, try dropping
a wanted ad in HST_SALE, HS_MODEM, FOR_SALE, or CFOR_SALE. I used to
say that it was impossible to find the boards, but someone reported very
recently that he'd picked up one for about $135, so it appears that
they're out there but hard to find. Good Luck in the Hunt...
Tom Smith/Dallas...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1740 *US ROBOTICS*
03-03-92 01:22:00
From: CRAIG SMITH
To: GEORGE PARDUE
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1726 (HST UP-DATE TO 16.8)
On 03-01-92, George Pardue wrote to Dennis Domazet:
>.....................................
Dennis, You might want to talk to your state Attorney General's office.
Or even Federal Attorney General's Office if you bought it mail order.
And the office of your Governor, and President Bush, and a few
congressmen.
Also, follow up with letters to each of them, with a copy to the
president of the company that wronged you.
Hope you kept the box which has the upgrade info on it. Send a Xerox
copy of the message on the box also.
It's often amazing how companies can change their minds, "in light
of new facts which just came to our attention".
Talk atcha later,
George
... Illegitemi Non Carborundum!
>.....................................
True, truer, truest.That's some very good advice. I work with the law
on a daily basis and one thing that most states have is a Fair Trade
Practices Law and/or Advertising Law. In Texas, if you can prove unfair
trade practices and/or advertising, you are entitled to recoup 4 times
damaged and NOT pay for the item that you purchased. It's a long, winding
road through the legal system, but it does prove a point.
As Americans, our entire legal system stands on principles, not actions.
It doens't matter what they 'intended' to do, but what the 'General
Public' would have understood as the case. Sue'm, make'm give you the
Dual, or just have a good time watching your State Attorney's office have
some fun and games with a major corporation.
Craig
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1755 *US ROBOTICS*
03-02-92 13:32:00
From: PAUL HALYUNG
To: DENNIS DOMAZET
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1740 (HST UP-DATE TO 16.8)
> Then I discovered that I needed v.32 capability, so I called and wrote
> USR about purchasing this module. They told me that it had been
> "discontinued". I found this fascinating, since the modem's chip dates
The Rockwell V.32 daughterboards are DEFINITELY not discontinued. Anyone who
says this is blatently a liar.
We have 2 brand-new GVC V.32/V.32bis V.42/V.42bis modems and after careful
inspection, contain the SAME daughterboard that can be found in an upgraded
older HST/DS modem.
The date of manufacture on the Daughterboard was 01/07/92. Go figure.
Same chips, same dual inline berg pins for the socket(s) in the HST etc.
Just need a new set of ROMs and away you go. I am going to persue this and not
let up. There is something drastically WRONG going on.
Paul
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1763 *US ROBOTICS*
03-02-92 19:51:00
From: AL FILANDRO
To: I GOT MY NEW MODEM!
Subj: COURIER HST DS 16.8K
Here is the ATI7 Info:
Configuration Profile...
Product type US/Canada External
Options HST,V32
Clock Freq 16.0Mhz
Eprom 128k
Ram 32k
Supervisor date 02/12/92
DSP date 02/06/92
Supervisor rev 4.1
DSP rev 11
Its small...but still looks like an hst..also since it is smaller, it appears
heavier than the other hst I have here...Its kinda cute. It also supports a new
connect rate of 16.8 "Connect 16800/HST/HST/V32bis" whatever...with one of its
own kind. ---Contains V.54 for analog, digital and remote loopback testing--It
also supports a DTE rate of 57.6k (aka lock your com port at that)...
Ill have to play with it for awhile but it looks real nice (even the DEMO tag
on the top ..the other HST I bought didnt have that ) Thanks USR!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1778 *US ROBOTICS*
03-02-92 21:58:00
From: BRYAN HOLLEY
To: DENNIS DOMAZET
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1755 (HST UP-DATE TO 16.8)
KH> think, that USRs behaviour isn't very fair. It was hard to
KH> save enough money to buy the modem. Now it is only one month
KH> old and already antiquated.
Believe me, they didn't plan to introduce a new modem just after you bought
yours! Get real. Every company must continue to improve / enhance their
products and they MUST be introduced at some time.
DD> Last October, I purchased a USR HST 14400 with v.42bis, the
DD> newest HST they had on the market. On the box that I purchased
DD> the modem in, it clearly stated, in two separate places, that the
DD> modem was upgradable to dual standard v.32 with "modules" that
DD> could be purchased from USR. That is one of the main reasons
DD> that I bought this modem, that the package stated that it could
DD> easily be upgraded.
DD> Then I discovered that I needed v.32 capability, so I called and
DD> wrote USR about purchasing this module. They told me that it had
DD> been "discontinued". I found this fascinating, since the modem's
DD> chip dates were late August of 1991. I was very upset that USR
DD> would explicitly state on their package that the modem could be
DD> upgraded and then discontinue the upgrade so quickly.
Again, this is not USR's fault. Their supplier, Rockwell, has discontinued the
V.32 module and gave the companies that used it no alternative other than to
use the newer V.32bis module. Unfortunately, it is not totally compatible with
the older V.32 module.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1798 *US ROBOTICS*
03-03-92 17:43:00
From: MIKE DRUMMOND
To: STEPHEN HENDRICKS
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1688 (NEW 16.8K (OR WHATEVER))
SHHH> MD> formula the other half is support and this is where USR falls flat on
SHHH> MD> there face.
SHHH>While I certainly understand how you feel, the course you have decided on
SHHH>prudent. If however you do have a problems you can call on me for help wi
SHHH>it as I am authorized as a USR dealer and will help anyone who needs it.
SHHH>can not guarentee to do anything more than anyone else, except try. If wha
SHHH>happened to you happened to me, I would have had it taken to the very top
SHHH>USR management, quickly.
Well thanks Steve. I must say that your attitude is much more "consumer
friendly" than the service department. You must do a fairly good
business....
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1933 *US ROBOTICS*
03-04-92 10:34:00
From: TOM SMITH
To: PAUL HALYUNG
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1778 (RE: HST UP-DATE TO 16.8)
Paul, USRobotics has dropped marketing of the Rockwell daughterboard.
Since you need a set of the properly-encoded PROMs to make it work, and
since you can legally only get a set from USR, this effectively means
that, so far as the USR world goes, the Rockwell card has been
discontinued. I've seen one message from a person who found one on the
HST_SALE Echo, but I've also seen literally dozens of messages from
people looking for them. While you may be technically right in that
Rockwell's still building the boards, if USR's chosen to not sell and
support them then the assertion that they're no longer available in the
Courier line's correct...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1948 *US ROBOTICS*
03-03-92 07:59:00
From: STEPHEN HENDRICKS
To: PAUL HALYUNG
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1933 (HST UP-DATE TO 16.8)
PH> Just need a new set of ROMs and away you go. I am going to
PH> persue this and not let up. There is something drastically
PH> WRONG going on.
Pursue it outside of this venue. After you get your answer let us know.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 1958 *US ROBOTICS*
03-05-92 02:28:00
From: CHRIS PRATER
To: GREG GORE
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1683 (HST 16.8K ETC)
> Hi Manuel, that is just a rumor. There is no such
> thing. If I am not
> mistaken I bieleve the fastest their is V.32bis which
> is 14 400 bps. The
> next step up that USR is developing is called V.FAST
> which won't be out
> for a couple of years and it will operate at 19.2K!
The 16.8HST/v32bis14.4 is no rumor. I've called 1-800-DIAL-USR and they
confirmed it. When you order a new modem now, it will be one of these V.small
modems.
Plus a few people in this echo have said that the new modem they've received
have been the new, smaller, faster, v.small modem.
:)
/\Chris/\
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 2168 *US ROBOTICS*
03-11-92 07:37:00
From: TOM HENDRICKS
To: RAY MANN
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1948 (RE: HST UP-DATE TO 16.8)
> Just wondering: if US Robotics doen't have any Rockwell
> daughterboards left, how do they repair broken
> Dual Standard
> modems that have a Rockwell daughterboard? Hmmmm....
Why don't you call them up and ask them?
It's better than discussing it here, without any knowledge on the subject
whatsoever.
-Tom-
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