--- Quote from: Shadoweagle on February 28, 2013, 03:55:34 PM ---Its not a great secret that I hate dwarves. I really dislike the fact that they're all cocky, Scottish, drunkards obsessed with four things: fighting, drinking, eating and being obnoxious. I might do a " remaking the dwarves" sub one day so I can mold them into something I prefer.

--- End quote ---

In the mid 90's I ran into a group of Australians. One of the first things I was told was, "Don't judge us by Crocodile Dundee and our soap operas." I've never seen an Australian soap opera but I'll admit that Crocodile Dundee was my only reference point at the time.

Somewhere, there's a group of Dwarves saying, "We're not all obnoxious, drunken bastards!"

Gossamer:
I think the stereotype thing is something inevitable. Personally I try to break it up no matter what member of a race I'm portraying, but think about creating a new humanoid. What can be done that hasn't allready been made a thousand times? No matter how hard you try, you're going to end up with some variety of elves/dwarves or what have you. In order to create something unique, you're going to have to move away from what makes humans human. And such creatures don't make for good playable characters. Even if you give them insect like properties, there's still going to be some ultimately human aspects, such as legs and arms(yes, not exclusively a human trait but y'know what I mean), a language and an introspective mind, it doesn't matter if you give them a tail or tentacles. And if you change dwarves too much, why bother calling them dwarves in the first place?

MysticMoon:
Why are stereotypes inevitable? The Citadel has tons of examples of writers pushing the limits on various fantasy elements. In fact, this is the place where I finally learned to look beyond the Tolkienesque elements. My view has been greatly expanded because of it.

Murometz:
Well said, Myst.

Few people realize that the only reason this thread even exists is because val was just getting his Dwarven Guild requisite out of the way :P

Gossamer:
First of all, did you even read the whole post or did you reply after the first sentence? Do you know what dwarves and elves are? They essentially embody certain human ideals and characteristics, hence they are stereotypes. It doesn't stop anyone from making exceptions from the rule every now and again, but as a whole, if dwarves and elves were just as diverse as humans, then what would be the point of having them in the first place, other than the aesthetics. And I wasn't necessarily talking about strict Tolkien/high fantasy rules either.