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I don't think I'm like this anymore, though many on this forum might think otherwise.
As I've grown up some. back in the day. I even use myself as an example. reflected on things that happened in the past. I have a better understanding of things now. At least I can admit it now. I have somehow caused this situation by mentioning how I used to act on here. how I've changed. I'm a relatively normal poster now

Take a look at the Shroud of Turin, the material that wrapped the body of Jesus during his burial and resurrection. Scientists have analyzed it and found most curious "bursts" of intense light and heat at the edges of the creases where it was folded. The only explanation they can come up with given the properties of these "markings" is that the material at these areas captured the moment of Jesus' resurrection from the dead - a glorious event not shared among other central monotheistic figures. The scientists have no instruments able to calibrate the exact temp/heat/light source of the material markings they find themselves faced with. They can only make assumptive theories. Therefore, our current science is inconclusive due to our inferior natural laws.

Truth is, the event was supernatural, and using instruments which are solely limited to measuring natural law are inferior as well.

Congratulates on once again illigitimising everything you've ever said.

"illigitimising"?? everything I've ever said??

I don't think so. Jeez, why is it so hard to write about science and religion on rock boards? moreover punk rock boards. *sighs* and just when I thought I might find a juicy CIVIL conversation to jump in, a misogynistic "evil little pig" has to jump in and knock it down because he knows he's on the anti-jesus path in order to satisfy his base desires, 'cause he can't do it the normal way................................

Take a look at the Shroud of Turin, the material that wrapped the body of Jesus during his burial and resurrection. Scientists have analyzed it and found most curious "bursts" of intense light and heat at the edges of the creases where it was folded. The only explanation they can come up with given the properties of these "markings" is that the material at these areas captured the moment of Jesus' resurrection from the dead - a glorious event not shared among other central monotheistic figures. The scientists have no instruments able to calibrate the exact temp/heat/light source of the material markings they find themselves faced with. They can only make assumptive theories. Therefore, our current science is inconclusive due to our inferior natural laws.

Truth is, the event was supernatural, and using instruments which are solely limited to measuring natural law are inferior as well.

Anyways, THERE is your hard evidence.

don't think so?

hmm, well, shouldn't science professionals be able to explain EVERYthing on this Earth by now??? some would like to think that they could, but they can't. There are also other "materials" that cannot be explained by science but they are too sacred to mention here.

This is the very last thing I will say to you: You very obviously have not been reading my posts, if you had, you would realise that I don't profess to know everything, nor does Science, it is in fact Religion that professes to know everything, because it is afraid to admitt that it does not.

Also your Turin Shroud argument comes about 1000 years too late after a Catholic Pope himself said it wasn't the Turin Shroud, merely a representation of what it would look like, also as it was Carbon dated some time in the 80's and proven to be about a thousand years younger than when Christ was reputed to be on the Earth it is physically impossible for it to have been on this planet, while Jesus was. And it was debunked again in another form more recently:

http://www.physorg.com/news4652.html
But I know you're going to come off with some bullshit about how Science can't understand the Supernatural, or now it'll be about how it was put here to test our faith, so again, this is the last reply you will get from me, as I've already gone against what I said at the start of this thread, in not getting into a debate. Feel free to respond to this one though if you really must have the last word.

I don't think I'm like this anymore, though many on this forum might think otherwise.
As I've grown up some. back in the day. I even use myself as an example. reflected on things that happened in the past. I have a better understanding of things now. At least I can admit it now. I have somehow caused this situation by mentioning how I used to act on here. how I've changed. I'm a relatively normal poster now

I agree with almost everything you said, it was essentially what I was trying to say.

Originally Posted by mrconeman

On this issue, the Science is transforming and changing all the time, every day really. Religion may change their conduct, or idiotic views on homosexuality and meat, but they have never changed any real core belief, I think you give them too much credit in that respect.

I especially agree with this. I tried to point it out a little in my post, but I don't feel like I was very successful. The only way the church changes their view on something, this has been shown time and time again, is under pressure from other people. In the video I posted Stephen Fry is talking about the church and how they always defend themselves by making claims like 'well, we didn't know any better, because nobody else did' and he shouts 'we'll than, what are you for!?' It seems to me, that without the influence of non-religious people or people who do not believe 100% of what the church tells them, the Catholic Church would be exactly the same as it was 1000 years ago. The Catholic Church only changes it's opinion on something under great pressure and even then only when they can't make excuses or deny something any longer. They still find ways to fuck up their apologies, did anyone see the Pope's most recent apology? Basically, when a church changes it's ways, it rarely has anything to do with them, and more to do with the rest of the world not dealing with their shit anymore. Concerning their core beliefs, no change at all. I was going to mention that, but couldn't figure out how. I guess I was over thinking it.

For Real, do you know what misogynist means?

I forgot to mention earlier, I would love to see how religions deal with the discovery of some form of intelligent life form. I am almost certain that somewhere out there, there are alien life forms. The universe is far too big for nothing else to exist. Was it Sagan who said something along the line of 'if there is a one in billion chance of life existing on another planet, there are billion planets out there with some form of life.' That is all kinds of misquoted, but I think you get the point. I love talking about the possibility of aliens and how there is no way in hell they would look anything remotely like us. Look at squirrels, for example, who are so close to us in DNA yet look so different. Now imagine what a creature fro ma different part of the universe would look like. I suppose that's a discussion for a different time though.

As it was said earlier, not everyone who is religious is a whackjob, but a lot more of them are if you are living in the right areas. Most people on this forum probably don't live in an area where people legitimately believe that Obama is the anti-christ, Bush was talked to by God, and homosexuality is killing America.

Oh yeah, religious or not, I highly recommend the video series I posted.

Stephen Fry is awesome at highlighting Religions fondness of picking and choosing their current beliefs to fit with what's acceptable.

On alien life forms though - absolutely. Though I agree it's a discussion for another time, with the billions of galaxies out there it would be foolish to think we had the only planet to spawn any life form, unless you're Religious..although yeah, that ties in with foolish.

People get caught up in the idea that we're going to find really advanced races and technology though, which is just as likely as finding neanderthals on another universe, or something so completely different to us we can't even imagine it, or simple plant life forms, or simple bacterial life forms, but yes I absolutely believe there are life forms outside of our solar system, alot of them.

edit: I will get to watching that, I'm watching A Universe From Nothing for the second time, and it's even more awesome this time.

I don't think I'm like this anymore, though many on this forum might think otherwise.
As I've grown up some. back in the day. I even use myself as an example. reflected on things that happened in the past. I have a better understanding of things now. At least I can admit it now. I have somehow caused this situation by mentioning how I used to act on here. how I've changed. I'm a relatively normal poster now

I'll check that one out soon, there is a TED Talk where Dawkins explains the importance of Militant Atheism that I really want to watch as well. Just finished the Dawkins video, it is a lot better than I expected: http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_daw...t_atheism.html

I grew up super Christian (but not Catholic), and though I'm not atheist (I'm agnostic), over time, I become less and less tolerant of religion. I have a lot of religious friends, and sometimes I think I'm dishonest to them because I don't want to offend them... I respect them as people and as friends, but I can't respect their religious beliefs. I really think they're nuts. So yeah, I pretty much understand you, coneman. I don't know if it's something I should change or not... what I should do differently.

the word Theory, has two meanings, and people need to understand that when we say theory, about Evolution, or anything in the field of Science it does not mean it is just a farfetched idea, like the theory that there is a God. It means a Theory in the intellectual sense, it is an item of knowledge which is pointed to by all of the evidence supporting it, as being a fact, unless further evidence disproves it, or modifies it. But for the time being, it is accepted as fact.

So when we call the Big Bang Theory, a theory, it does not downplay the fact that all of the evidence, literally everything in existence, points to the fact that it happened.

Whereas when we refer to Religious theory, we are refering to the first meaning of the word theory, which is an idea with some semblence of possibility, but *absolutely no proof, and absolutely unprovable*.

It is usually the Religious people who bend the meaning of the word theory, when reffering to Evolution, or the Big Bang, to down play them from facts.

I don't think I'm like this anymore, though many on this forum might think otherwise.
As I've grown up some. back in the day. I even use myself as an example. reflected on things that happened in the past. I have a better understanding of things now. At least I can admit it now. I have somehow caused this situation by mentioning how I used to act on here. how I've changed. I'm a relatively normal poster now