On the WG matchmaking patent and "rigged" MM

First and foremost, PLEASE stop sending me this link, in last 7 days or so, I have recieved around 50 PM's or mails with this "news".

Second: I believe that this patent (while it describes a possibility of how MM could look - the point of this is to make the patent as broad as possible, encompassing every possibility - this is a common practice in intelectual property law) is by no means any proof that MM is rigged against good players. It's simply an option, that shows Wargaming was thinking about this.

Personally, I can't judge, simply because I am not a good enough player to be affected by any such "rigs", but I doubt there is any such rigged MM implemented.

99 comments:

no matter how much proof was shown ever since WoT was in CBT, no matter if the exact same thing discussed then shows up in a patent ..people still chose to believe a company that lies to them constantly, rather than thinking for themselves

Wait, im confused. The so called good players are always complaining about poor game quality.....so when you put on the bottom of the list, it should be more challenging, isnt that the next best thing to quality game play.

You cant change the entire spectrum of players. So, now that you have more of a challenge, your still not happy.

Of the really good players, an overwhelming majority never complains about the matchmaking. This is only common amongst average players.The same as with 0-damage hits. Good players know whether a shot is safe and when it might be 0 damage. When it's 0 damage, they don't complain because it was a risky shot anyway.

Something is "rigged" because it won't let you play always as top or as bottom tier? It doesn't decide the battles outcome before the first shot, right? Then what is this "MM is rigged" bullshit? Maybe it's "controlled", not totally "random", but far from "rigged".

well you can tell pretty early if its a win or a loss because you simply cant hit ANYTHING and if you do it just biunces of everything,oh and your armor is paper no matter what tank you havem,so YES its rigged.

It goes beyond battle tiers. It calculates how pro player is and starts to shoot incredible shit teams and low rolls against your tank. Then after lose streaks, it resets and puts normal "unrigged" match. This happens over and over again.

Example: I dominated 8 FIRST matches COMPLETELY with Foch155(Dominate: 3x/2x more damage done than next player in either of the teams)after that I've played about 20 more games and my winrate with has gone down to about 60% but I still do as much damage.

Example 2: I got Obj261 and I mostly shoot more damage than any other player in my / enemy team. I hit AP shells even with T92 and MM found out after first games that I'm not allowed to make damage and win with my Obj261. It puts teams where teams go one side only (YES IT CAN PREDICT WHERE PLAYER GOES IN ANY MAP) and makes the AP shells to miss, shooting always the one square centimeter which is outside of the targeted tank.

Example 3: After watching stats from XVM for long time, I can clearly see that after win streaks it puts you in a NO-CAN-WIN game with teamkillers,bots and siemas. If you somehow manage to win it, next one will be same, but now your team has even less top tier tanks, other team having 1 or 2 more of them.

Dammit, completely reliable prediction of any person's action? THE Holy Grail of AI development? As a student of AI I have just wet my pants... after I change them I'm gonna to build a temple for WG so I can pray to them...

The section describing the rigging is in the specification not the claims. WG is describing an aspect of the game. If such language was in the claims then you could argue they were trying to make their patent more broad. Again they didn't, they just describe an aspect of their game.

Well, look at any technology giant such as Sony or microsoft. They have patented so many things they have never used. Perhaps at one point wargamming wanted to make a skill based matchmaker, but coming up with a way to keep track of player skill (given that current available stats would normalize in such a situation) might have proved difficult.

Going back to the sony example, they patented away to effective destroy the trade of second hand games. While people were running around as if the world was ending, shortly after Sony came out and announced that they would not be doing any such thing for the Ps4.

The patenthttp://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-01-03-sony-patents-tech-to-block-use-of-second-hand-games

The responsehttp://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-02-21-sony-tells-eurogamer-playstation-4-will-not-block-used-games

Once more, just because a company owns a patent, doesn't mean they use it. I have yet to see any conclusive proof of a "rigged" matchmaker in world of tanks.

Personal experiences may validate an opinion, but they don't prove any fact. Also, saying that X can do Y doesn't prove that X did do Y, think about the Cold War: both factions could have started WWIII, but they didn't.

What some may have missed is that the patent was filed on May 16, 2012 - this means that work on preparing the patent was well advanced months before WG filed their suit against Changyou.com (Wargaming.Net LLP v. Changyou.com Limited et al) on May 08, 2013.

Clearly, the patent was not registered as a response to Changyou.coms' "copy" of WoT which, as far as I'm aware, wasn't even released circa May, 2012.

I am quite convinced it is true. Remember the mod who published the MM rules on the EU board where he told that your recent winning rate influenced your MM. That thread were removed from the boards after 2 days......

And it fits what we see in our gaming group. You always start the day by winning everything and then after 5 or 6 games you cannot win any games anymore because the rest of your team cannot scratch their own arses without help and it will keep on being like that until you take a 3 hour break and then your shit team indicator is reset and you can have fun games again.

Claiming something is fact just undermines your credibility. Every good scientist waits until something is proven right or wrong, before he publishes his work and even then it's often just a theory... and btw have you ever heard of presumption of innocence?

If the MM is rigged as OP says, why I can sometimes win 80% of the games I did that day? Why did I yesterday have trouble to reach my personal lower limit of 50% daily winrate because of my first 9 games I won only one? Why do I have 66% winrate in my FCM in 400 battles and only 30% winrate in Type59 in 100 battles? At least these show that your imaginary doesn't work as good as you think. If it's indeed real, it works with minor impact on players...

"Anyone in doubt should collect their own evidence showing that matchmaker isnt rigged. Which can't be done by a bad player, because MM is carrying him , keeping his WR atleast near 50%"

quite the contrary.Patent described suggest that playing a tank of tier 8 (let's assume) when you win, you will be more likely to play against tiers 10, while if you lose, you will be playing more against tier 8 and lower.

So when good player would be punished for wining (he will win less being bottom tank then being top tank), retards will be constantly losing being top players.

that means we should expect in almost every battle top tanks being retards and bottom tanks being pro.

gathering the data to prove/disprove rigged matchmaking would require to write down for every battle your current streak, your win ratio, battle tier.

People seem not to notice, that MM "rigging" doesnt decide if god players will be in 1 team and bad players in other. it only puts good player at the bottom and bad players at the top, so with limited amound of space it would make both teams rather equal.

If this WOULD be a proof for a rigged MM wouldn't it the Kind of skill-based MM everyone is wishing, because too many Retards drive around?Yeah guys think about it, you can't have skill-based MM and a winrate of 55% or higher...

Also I think it's good that you can sometimes "rule" over the noobs. If you are so skilled like you ever say you should have the chance to rock some matches-Mppol

So every time you have a bad team it's MM cheating? With such a big playerbase, there have to be noobs and bad players, actually I guess there are more of these low-skilled players then the pros. So the statistical probability of getting bad match isn't negligible.

Bad matches happen, noobs happen, enemy outskilling you happens, bad RNG happens. Does the real life somehow cheat, when you get a row of bad luck events?

Because people has to prove the logical and commonly assumed option A, yet you don't have to prove the absurd and poorly supported option B; sounds legit. Moreover when a basic understanding of stadistics easily explains the current WR variation.

When it takes 10+ games to get just 1 victory and you have a W/R above 60% then you know something is going on behind the scenes - its practically a statistical impossibility unless the MM is rigged and you are deliberately being shoved in with a bunch of 44% W/R morons and bots.

I've suspected for years this was happening. Its as if the server just flicks a switch after you've won too many games and suddenly your whole team is made up of < 50% W/R players and the enemy team has maybe 2 or 3 < 50%.

"When it takes 10+ games to get just 1 victory and you have a W/R above 60% then you know something is going on behind the scenes - its practically a statistical impossibility unless the MM is rigged and you are deliberately being shoved in with a bunch of 44% W/R morons and bots."

Interesting. So, your team has a 60% WR player thrown into a 44% WR bunch of morons, because you win too much. Let's assume that this is some kind of argument. But what about the other team? There are, as you have said, only winners there. Oh wait, the rest of your team are 44%, so every each one of them should be thrown into a bunch of 60% players to get better results.So the whole MM is only focused on you? Yeah, right.

The left team always has worse tanks and players. ;)

The thing is, that even if you design a MM that puts good players with bad ones, and mediocre with mediocre, the result will be that every team will consist of couple of good, mediocre and bad players together. So, if it's rigged, then it's not at the same time. ;)

If i found out that the MM is rigged right now, i wouldn't stop playing because nothing would actually change - it'd be the same MM except now i know something i didn't before. In fact, if i found out that this MM is indeed rigged, i'd if anything enjoy it more because i'd be looking for ways around said manipulation, and even ways to exploit it.

As with everything i've posted in this thread, these are all my opinions though. The only fact i've presented is that streaks end XP

I guess the perpetually drunk US patent office will fall for this one as well. Does anyone take them seriously nowdays? Any patent office that believes Apple invented rounded corners have to be incompetent.

Skill MM should not mean that good players are getting thrown shit at. Skill MM = balanced teams. Not me (1900+ WN6) in a ape team with all the good players in the enemy team. Rather rule than an exception. Confirms the rigged theory.

I achieved 63% winrate (got it from companies but i became good enough that i can keep it up with 90% solopub, 10% is CW and platoons) and i have the experience that MM is not rigged against me. I spawn atop just about the same as in the bottom.

This kind of claim is pretty unreasonable in my opinion because it's an asset that, if true, you cannot change, and you have to work around it or solve this altogether.

I think i know where the ideas of MatchMaker rigging come from. I've experienced the following phenomenon:

Step 1) Player is 50% and gets matched with 50%ers -> player will recognise other 50%ers as good players, because they have similar skills and thus think in similar ways. player will also forgive some amount of mistakes from other playersStep 2) Player gets better and becomes 55% -> Player will no longer see 50%ers as skillful. To a 55%er, they might seem as decent players and only that. Therefore, he will forgive less mistakes from them and will be more frustrated with the lack of skill in them.Step 3) Player becomes a 70% solopub winrate "super unicum" -> This is of course an exaggeration, but a player like this would conceive 50%ers as "utterly bashit retarded". He will not forgive any mistakes whatsoever and will feel like he is being matched with a brainless team he has to carry much more often than a 50-60%er would.

In summary, i think this whole "rigged MM" ordeal is actually a matter of perception because the concept of "stupid" or "bad player" is relative.

No one will get a 75% wr solo pub, unless they only played the mini maus back in the day. That is a fact. If they did have such a win rating solo pub, then platooned they'd have a 95%+ wr. MM is without a doubt rigged for solo pubs making it difficult to succeed. But I also noticed an anomoly where platoons/players with incredible stats are usually top tier in the battle. Never are they at the bottom.

There always was something going on with MM, but the padding gold sling clan platoons never want to admit it because it would diminish their self worth.

Providing a link to a player's stats isn't enough either, so i'll upload a screenshot of my own account with its stats. After all, the only things not public about my account showed in the garage itself are my gold, credits, free XP and premium days, which i don't care about disclosing.

As for me, as a player whos winrate consistently breaks 85%, i sort of kind of can feel MM bearing more weight on me lately, as often i can see Unicum platoons on the otherside, but rarely on my side.But then again, it could just be my bias.

http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/216033-win/page__fromsearch__1After i made this post, i find my winrate dropping at a noticeable rate(95% to 88% is quite noticeable, trust me), but to be honest, i'd rather believe that its just me playing at a shittier level.

Really, been reading this blog for a while, and suddenly i feel the need to post, for the first time.The whole concept of a rigged MM is lame just from the start - if it's rigged to make you personally suck if you start dominating - how many people will play? That's precisely the position SerB took in a certain Q/A thread i used to read way back. It's as simple as that - if you want to dominate WoT - dominate it.From personal experience (been using XVM for the last ~10k battles in diff. balance levels) i can say that the concept of a rigged MM appeals some battles, but mostly it doesn't - i can see what i do wrong when i fail, i can see what i did right when i win. 16k battles and 53% overall WR, with ~55% (mostly) on my T10 tanks (and a lot more variety on the others, which i never played for fun). Sure i know that's not a lot, and that's way far from dominating randompub games, but i play a foch155 (90% of it - solo) and after ~200 games i still have 60+% WR on it (which pretty much proves that it's imbalanced and there's no riggin on the MM). I consider myself an average player at best, so again i can't say anything precise about a rigged MM, but even the contents of the patent only regard your placing in a mid-tier tank [since playing a T10 always gets you at the "top", only with different amounts of other T10s], while most "rigged" complaints come from "hell i play 1100 eff and get stuck with 600-eff noobs that don't know about aim time and accuracy", which doesn't exactly corelate with the placing.Rayxanber, RU server

I think comments are getting out from patent context. What is in patent, is that if you keep winning you get to face higher tiers(if possible by your own tank tier). And when you lose, your battle tier drops. Its real and you can see it working like that if you just start to track your games.

It doesnt stop you from getting high WR%, just means you get against higher stat tanks that still can be driven by monkeys.

"It doesnt stop you from getting high WR%, just means you get against higher stat tanks that still can be driven by monkeys."Actually the high tier tanks have to be driven by monkeys. They are also affected by the same rules, so if the MM is rigged then those high tier tanks have to have low WR.

For a compagny as big as WG it is vital to include every posibility in their patent. They are not only patenting things they are doing and going to do, they are ofc patenting things that they can/might/perhaps use in the future.The future (with competition) might force WG to implement these things. And that is why they have already made this patent include all those things,,,, so they CAN include it if the future demands it.

Patents are not only made to protect the owner from coppyers (if that word exist), patents are also used to document the owners right to use an 'invention' if need rise in the future. So better safe than sorry.

Now, what we do not know, is if these things are included in the MM at the moment. It is possible, we can all read it in the patent. But from my understanding of knowledge, we don't know.My personal feeling: it could be, it does feels like it some times. But me feeling/believing/thinking does not equal knowing.

The problem is to prove it. There 2 type of players in WoT: Those who care of their performance and play well and those who are just 50% WR idiots. Those who care of their performance feel there is influence by the RNG / MM because ridicolous bounces / misses. The idiots don't even notice such things.

And here we are: Idiots are like 90% of WoT playerbase and these 10% of intelligent players need to prove something for idiots. That just doesn't work, idiots will stay idiots and you can't teach / proof them anything. Idiot players is fine with all this manipulation, as long as he stays with his 45-50% WR and he does 1k damage from time to time.

I hope you understand that you just cut up ~everyone below say...1600eff (or about 60-63% WR) to being "50% WR idiots"...there's a reason why earlier eff-raitings were color-coded for yellow and light green, with anything below 1200 eff being ~55% of the pop.

Everyone with a normal working brain will reach pink / blue stats in WoT. That's a fact. I don't put much effort in this game neither am i very clever but i am pink. Pink / blue players are even less then 10% i assume but that's not the point.

The point is following: If i reach so easily pink xvm-stats, with doing so many mistakes and errors, i can only assume that everyone who's not blue / pink must be a braindead retard. Not even talking of yellow / orange players.

No idea what pink stats are, i still use the very first coloring (light green at 1200 and up, green at 1500 and up), so some numbers and some proof would be great, but taking any player of 1k eff - i'd say that he can do basic stuff (like tank my shots and cover me with his wreck, sure) which is way better than rushing mid on himmel =)2nd anon

The MM is rigged to make games more exciting for the players, especially players like myself who buy gold. I am a solo pub player, I have never platooned, I have never been in a clan. I noticed before I logged off for the night that I was winning an awful lot of games. I checked the information window and surely enough I had won the last 15 games in a row, the only reason the streak ended was I stopped playing. The odds of winning 15 games in a row if its truely random would be 32,768:1. You'll never convince me it wasn't rigged for me to win.

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I'm not going to give any hard proof but it is proof enough for me. I grind the same tank an awful lot. I see most of the things described in complaints, and I see them, and I see them. When I first started I was told not to grind the same tank, told to mix it up using several tanks. After ignoring that advice I realize the reason was so I wouldn't notice any "rigging" patterns. It is easy to see and feel when you grind the same tank for thousands of maps. Plain as the nose on your face.

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