Integrate, integrate, integrate, and Bitcoin will succeed, because it is superior.

If I wanted to go out to dinner, or needed to go to the store for some groceries, where can I go that will accept this superior currencies debit card?

Anywhere debit cards are accepted.

But way to come out swinging before you understand what is being discussed.

But I'm still ultimately paying in cash. The bitcoins are just converted into real money by this bank. I've added this bitcoin middleman because...

It's a better store of value than fiat.

Is that why it is effectively backed by fiat? Or why the only community to really embrace it is absolutely plagued by scams and baffling incompetence?

Back to the initial point, isn't part of the entire mythos of bitcoin getting away from federal regulation and banks? If you are just going to have your bitcoins processed through a bank that then converts them to fiat money, you are just taking a worthless middle step.

You're still paying in fiat money, this is not a win for bitcoin, just a confirmation that for anyone to take it seriously, you have to back it with the very fiat money you are trying to overthrow.

Integrate, integrate, integrate, and Bitcoin will succeed, because it is superior.

If I wanted to go out to dinner, or needed to go to the store for some groceries, where can I go that will accept this superior currencies debit card?

Anywhere debit cards are accepted.

But way to come out swinging before you understand what is being discussed.

But I'm still ultimately paying in cash. The bitcoins are just converted into real money by this bank. I've added this bitcoin middleman because...

It's a better store of value than fiat.

Is that why it is effectively backed by fiat? Or why the only community to really embrace it is absolutely plagued by scams and baffling incompetence?

Back to the initial point, isn't part of the entire mythos of bitcoin getting away from federal regulation and banks? If you are just going to have your bitcoins processed through a bank that then converts them to fiat money, you are just taking a worthless middle step.

You're still paying in fiat money, this is not a win for bitcoin, just a confirmation that for anyone to take it seriously, you have to back it with the very fiat money you are trying to overthrow.

Bitcoin for you is defined by how you use it. You don't get to tell me what it is about. If I want to use it that way I will and you are free to do what you want.

You seem very bitter. Try reading your namesake, it might give you some insight about not holding grudges.

But I'm still ultimately paying in cash. The bitcoins are just converted into real money by this bank. I've added this bitcoin middleman because...

It's a better store of value than fiat.

Is that why it is effectively backed by fiat? Or why the only community to really embrace it is absolutely plagued by scams and baffling incompetence?

Back to the initial point, isn't part of the entire mythos of bitcoin getting away from federal regulation and banks? If you are just going to have your bitcoins processed through a bank that then converts them to fiat money, you are just taking a worthless middle step.

You're still paying in fiat money, this is not a win for bitcoin, just a confirmation that for anyone to take it seriously, you have to back it with the very fiat money you are trying to overthrow.

The very fiat who is trying to overthrow? Not all of us see Bitcoin as the ultimate weapon with which to fight the establishment. As I said earlier, I know there's a substantial number of you here who do see it that way but that's not to say it's the only way to see or use Bitcoin. Do you not believe that there are others of us who do not see things as you do? Or do you maybe dismiss we non-believers as not 'true' Bitcoiners and that use of it not in accordance with the vision you have for it is worthy of your dismissal?

OK, let's try another approach:

Do people who use VOIP phones who do not care that their conversation is in packets sharing the net with the emailers and web surfers harm the internet?There's the parallel but there are differences too. Because i) regardless of whether users of the new Bitcoin-Central service do anything other than transfer their funds 'through' Bitcoin they are increasing the demand - even if it's just in passing - and increasing the distribution; ii) if users of the service explore a little they may find they can buy some of the things they would have anyway with Bitcoin directly and so will support those using Bitcoin in their business; iii) they may want to explore more about it, understand more about it, want to support it by running nodes or even getting a little mining ASIC - just because they like the idea of it.

Not everybody has to come to Bitcoin from the ideological perspective. if people come to it first because it happens to be useful to their needs and some of them learn more about it and begin to see it's potential impact later on so what?

Please disregard Litecoin and Zcash badges to the left. I have just gathered they are an April fool's joke!

I usually don't agree with The Bible, but i agree with TheBible that's here.

However, it was inevitable that some of the "Bitcoin community" would make deals and sell out to the bankers, because they naturally want the lifestyle the bankers have. That's only possible by joining the establishment, rather than being a revolutionary...

The real fun will begin when the major mining pools and commercial mining operators will start making deals with the government regulators and being bought up by the banks...

That's actually when Bitcoin will be full-speed ahead to the past or "square 1"... In any case, might be an interesting saga for a long time.

I usually don't agree with The Bible, but i agree with TheBible that's here.

However, it was inevitable that some of the "Bitcoin community" would make deals and sell out to the bankers, because they naturally want the lifestyle the bankers have. That's only possible by joining the establishment, rather than being a revolutionary...

The real fun will begin when the major mining pools and commercial mining operators will start making deals with the government regulators and being bought up by the banks...

That's actually when Bitcoin will be full-speed ahead to the past or "square 1"... In any case, might be an interesting saga for a long time.

I hate central bank charades as much as the next guy, but how the hell is bitcoin supposed to grow without interfacing with any other financial systems?

Integrate, integrate, integrate, and Bitcoin will succeed, because it is superior.

If I wanted to go out to dinner, or needed to go to the store for some groceries, where can I go that will accept this superior currencies debit card?

Anywhere debit cards are accepted.

But way to come out swinging before you understand what is being discussed.

But I'm still ultimately paying in cash. The bitcoins are just converted into real money by this bank. I've added this bitcoin middleman because...

It's a better store of value than fiat.

Is that why it is effectively backed by fiat? Or why the only community to really embrace it is absolutely plagued by scams and baffling incompetence?

Back to the initial point, isn't part of the entire mythos of bitcoin getting away from federal regulation and banks? If you are just going to have your bitcoins processed through a bank that then converts them to fiat money, you are just taking a worthless middle step.

You're still paying in fiat money, this is not a win for bitcoin, just a confirmation that for anyone to take it seriously, you have to back it with the very fiat money you are trying to overthrow.

Maybe take this to the haters forum? You have to convert it because it isn't your local currency and the store you went to must only take local currency, hard to understand? No.

Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.

"If you are just going to have your bitcoins processed through a bank that then converts them to fiat money, you are just taking a worthless middle step. You're still paying in fiat money, this is not a win for bitcoin, just a confirmation that for anyone to take it seriously, you have to back it with the very fiat money you are trying to overthrow."

It's hilarious that you think this is a valid argument!

Don't mind The Bible any. He comes from that other forum, where almost none of them actually understands anything about finance, Bitcoin, markets, or libertarian philosophy, but for some reason they all feel extremely confident in their (mis)understanding and intellectual superiority, to the point that they just make fun of anyone or anything they don't understand, dismissing it as stupid. What's the term for that again? Dunning-Kruger effect?

As for the rest of the concerns, calm down. It's ONE exchange out of a dozen. You can still trade on others, or use localbitcoins if you want to. Once your coins leave that exchange, no one's in control but you.

I hate central bank charades as much as the next guy, but how the hell is bitcoin supposed to grow without interfacing with any other financial systems?

That's a great question for Satoshi! Perhaps, he will make a cameo, and explain how he planned for the Bitcoin infrastructure to avoid being bought out by the current banking systems he identified as the problem in the beginning. Maybe he already explained; have to search his writings again...

...unless of course, he was a banker trying to make a killing by starting the whole thing... Nah; that just conspiracy talk...

So the other side of the (bit)coin is that the banksters and the eurocrats will know how many bitcoins you have in there, how do you trade them (capital gains? repent!) and above all they will be enabled to lock your bitcoin-backed credit card if you end in some black list of them.Thanks, but no thanks.After all these efforts and complications to get out from the banksters' matrix, it is ironic to get back at square 1.

Very good point.

No, it's not a good point.

Integrating Bitcoin with the normal financial world is not "going back to square 1". In all cases, you have the option, once in Bitcoin, to be apart from that world. The integration is simply an inevitable (and important) step to help the rest of the world climb on to our superior system. Every integration between Bitcoin and the old systems brings those old systems closer to death, because once attached, Bitcon begins to siphon off economic activity.

It would only be "going back to square 1" if, somehow, were were now all forced to use this French exchange and comply with banking laws there. That would be bad, but that is impossible if you understand how Bitcoin works.

Integrate, integrate, integrate, and Bitcoin will succeed, because it is superior.

...As for the rest of the concerns, calm down. It's ONE exchange out of a dozen. You can still trade on others, or use localbitcoins if you want to. Once your coins leave that exchange, no one's in control but you.

Indeed, calm down with your concerns. No other exchange will ever want to partner with a major bank for at least the next few weeks or months. And no banks - central or otherwise - will ever want to buy out the main mining operators, and change the Bitcoin rules for probably at least a year or two. Until then, you are in control, just as Rassah said.

After that, as usual there is no telling what will happen. I think that the Bitcoin system might be subverted in the most ordinary way - by having anyone who goes against the current powers that be being bought out and/or absorbed with their eager consent into the current banking system, as Paymium is...

Then some other Satoshi might appear with some other revolutionary way to make a killing... Maybe it will be Jed McCaleb and Co. that time, with the RippleCoin?! Perhaps, this virtual currency thing will also turn out to be "A Bill of Goods" or a ponzi, just like fiat, and we are just too blind with our own greed to see that yet. We'll see.

I'm not familiar with European banks, so could someone please explain the implications of being able to get an account here. I don't quite get what SEPA is or what the big deal of having IBAN numbers is.

I'm American, made an account and uploading a scan of my drivers license is no issue. After that you may need some other type of identification depending on laws but I basically have a euro-denominated bank account (just can't apply for a line of credit)?

I wonder how just this part, forgetting that it would be fairly easy to deposit bitcoins into it can help me. I run an ecig business and these are prohibited to be sold with paypal and many similar services, credit card processors, etc. here. Whenever I have had customers in Europe, I always tell them their options are Western Union or similar, postal cheque or bitcoins. Could I now offer them something which will be cheaper for them?

My customers in France thought it was weird that I couldn't use paypal and I see one French ecig place (here) accepting it. Could I use my new French bank account to sign up for a French paypal and then accept payments with that for my US based business? Is there any sort of credit card processor/gateway which can be offered by your partners?