gad rgyangs wrote:while it can seem so innocuously "comparative mythology" in these terms, things get more interesting when you consider that, for example, when Namkhai Norbu speaks about Nagas, he is clearly not talking about mythology: as far as he is concerned, they are real entities. If that is the case, then what else might be going on out there, what might Nagas be up to beyond the traditional understanding of them in Tibetan culture?

Okay, so now, in order to comfortably assimilate Icke into our world view we have to estblish that Kris Kristofferson is a naga (I wonder why he picks on Kris Kristofferson and puts him into the same league as the Queen and George Bush? Would paranoid ideation be a valid explanation? Doesn't do much for Ickes credibility if his theory is basically based in paranoid delusion). So now all you have to do is prove to me that Kris Kristofferson is a shape shifting extraterrestrial reptile (or posibly even a Naga) and I will be convinced of the validity of Ickes theory.

This is the question. Surely one would not seriously consider that the Tibetan typology of spirits is exhaustive and complete, that there is no possibility of entities outside their cultural understanding. Therefore it may not be wise to dismiss out of hand claims about various entities and their activities, even if it cannot be fitted into one's Tibetan box of understanding. I would expect instead that those familiar with the Tibetan cultural views of entities would perhaps be the most open to at least considering that "there is more in heaven and earth than is dreamt of in Tibet philosophy."

You keep forgetting one very important point, nobody here is Tibetan and nobody here is exclusively influenced by (or supportive of) Tibetan world views.

After some consideration (of the original topic)I have come to the following conclusion: The danger in Icke's theory can be found in two major points. Firstly (just coz it's a shorter point) there is the danger that arises from the social/political solution he proposes to the apparent problem of the world being run by extraterrestial aliens: ie rainbow Fascism.

Secondly, and this is the deeper problem, when he proposes that all the worlds rulers are not human beings beings, but extra terrestial reptiles, what he does is somehow exonerate human beings from their tendency to greed, egomania, power trips and authoritarianism. Instead of asking people to look within themselves and try to root out the tendencies that give rise to them becoming power hungry despots (and Kris Kristofferson), he merely attributes it to something outside of the boundaries of human existence. Outside of earthly existence. And then he proposes that humans set up a social/political structure free of extra terrestrial influence. But in reality we all (well, those that have some sort of connection with reality) know what power does to people.

This is where the true danger of Icke lies: the fact that his theory is doomed to replicate and create more suffering, rather than reduce and eliminate suffering.

gregkavarnos wrote:After some consideration (of the original topic)I have come to the following conclusion: The danger in Icke's theory can be found in two major points. Firstly (just coz it's a shorter point) there is the danger that arises from the social/political solution he proposes to the apparent problem of the world being run by extraterrestial aliens: ie rainbow Fascism.

Secondly, and this is the deeper problem, when he proposes that all the worlds rulers are not human beings beings, but extra terrestial reptiles, what he does is somehow exonerate human beings from their tendency to greed, egomania, power trips and authoritarianism. Instead of asking people to look within themselves and try to root out the tendencies that give rise to them becoming power hungry despots (and Kris Kristofferson), he merely attributes it to something outside of the boundaries of human existence. Outside of earthly existence. And then he proposes that humans set up a social/political structure free of extra terrestrial influence. But in reality we all (well, those that have some sort of connection with reality) know what power does to people.

This is where the true danger of Icke lies: the fact that his theory is doomed to replicate and create more suffering, rather than reduce and eliminate suffering.

"If you browse the shelves that, in American bookstores, are labeled New Age, you can find there even Saint Augustine, who, as far as I know, was not a fascist. But combining Saint Augustine and Stonehenge-that is a symptom of Ur-Fascism."-Umberto Eco

"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."

May any merit generated by on-line discussionBe dedicated to the Ultimate Benefit of All Sentient Beings.

"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."

May any merit generated by on-line discussionBe dedicated to the Ultimate Benefit of All Sentient Beings.

We would not take swimming lessons from someone who cannot swim. Yet we seem all too willing to sit in church pews, satsangs, zendos,, yoga studios, spiritual bookstores,large gatherings and the like entrusting our spiritual growth to those who are as lost as we are - but sound better.

greentara wrote:We would not take swimming lessons from someone who cannot swim. Yet we seem all too willing to sit in church pews, satsangs, zendos,, yoga studios, spiritual bookstores,large gatherings and the like entrusting our spiritual growth to those who are as lost as we are - but sound better.

Speak for yourself.

A swimming instructor does not need to be Michael Phelps in order to teach you the free style stroke, but one should be wary of teachers that say that tying a big heavy stone around ones leg is the best way to learn to float.

I think this type of thing is fascinating. Have researched Icke-related ideas and conspiracy theories often over the years, but have rarely got attached to the ideas of them because it can often get out of hand. I'd say I agree with gad rgyangs mostly here too. Also that if Nagas do exist, and there's plenty of material to suggest they do, it could be reasonable to assume that there's good and bad ones. You have the good ones popping up several times in Buddhist history, and the bad ones are maybe connected in some way to some of the problems going on in the world. What I can't do though is go to the point where everything is the fault of the Nagas/Reptilians, etc. I think that's just pushing it way too far.

Also loved the way Blue Garuda reported gad rgyangs posts twice! Especially when I then found out shortly after reading some of this that Garuda was a sworn enemy of the Nagas, it just made me laugh and seemed kind of fitting.

When I was a convenor of a student Buddhist society years ago, I remember an experienced teacher advising me to be careful - "many people with mental illness gravitate to Buddhism, be aware."

It boggles my mind how a hodge-podge of bits from all over sprinkled generously with paranoia and megalomania can pass for substance. Nano-chips in vaccines?? No wonder those Taliban heroes are killing off the aid workers.

It may be too late for those who are seriously invested in this nonsense, but if you come across this and feel the pull, please do your research, look at the sources, check the evidence, look at the people who propagate this - can they be trusted? And if all else fails get some professional help...

Dan74 wrote:When I was a convenor of a student Buddhist society years ago, I remember an experienced teacher advising me to be careful - "many people with mental illness gravitate to Buddhism, be aware."

It boggles my mind how a hodge-podge of bits from all over sprinkled generously with paranoia and megalomania can pass for substance. Nano-chips in vaccines?? No wonder those Taliban heroes are killing off the aid workers.

It may be too late for those who are seriously invested in this nonsense, but if you come across this and feel the pull, please do your research, look at the sources, check the evidence, look at the people who propagate this - can they be trusted? And if all else fails get some professional help...

Very well put. I find it astonishing that anyone who gives credence to this man and his farrago of delusions should at the same time profess an interest in Buddhadharma.I suppose Brits have a slight advantage here as we were able to see the process of his estrangement from reality as he went from sports commentator to shell suit wearing, self proclaimed, Son Of God on the TV's in our own living rooms.

Ajahn Sumedho.. " beware of being so open minded that your brain falls out ".

" My heart's in the Highlands my heart is not here.My heart's in the Highlandschasing the deer."

Considering the above link, and that they put all this other garbage in them, why not?

These greedy, polluting corporations & Zionist banksters (who now have control of many governments, big pharma, most major "scientific" institutions, etc.) have not shown that they're any different than the crackers who gave smallpox infested blankets to the Native American Tribes. If I were an African nation, I'd tell Bill Gates that he can keep his goddamn GMO's and vaccines (like Kenya, who just banned GMO's ).

Vaccines are worthless for the most part, and maybe only useful in VERY RARE circumstances. We know of an eight month old baby who has never once gotten sick because his mom eats organically grown food, breastfeeds him, and did not have him vaccinated. Whereas many of the babies we know of whose mom's either don't eat organic, or don't breastfeed, or who did vaccinate (or all of the above) are getting sick left and right. Of course there is much research on the dangers of vaccines to corroborate this example of direct experience as well.

Again, I don't (and never really have) endorse David Icke (also, I didn't know about his apparent opinion of the Dalai Lama until someone pointed it out in this thread). A lot of what Icke says is true; and it's also mixed with falsehoods which makes his writings/speeches dangerous no doubt.

And I do doubt Icke's shapeshifting reptilian stuff. At the same time like Gad rGyangs pointed out, it's not as far fetched as it might seem at first that Naga types of beings (even from another planet) could have gotten into key worldly positions. Shapeshifting is also a Siddhi described in some traditions, so that's not so far-fetched either.

(Like I'd mentioned earlier in this thread, Nagas can also be interpreted as beings who have attained a certain level of Realization, and some Indigenous Tribes in India and other places were and are referred to as Nagas as well)

Intelligently avoiding the corporatocracy's poisons (GMO's, fluoride, vaccines, big pharma's so-called "medicines", synthetic-chemical pesticides, etc.) is compatible with the Tantric view of everything and everyone being of a Pure Dimension. For example H.H. the Dalai Lama (who I'm sure is always integrated with Right View) has recently expressed his concern regarding the dangers of GMO's, and has also expressed his concern regarding the Zionist Isreali's unfair (an understatement) treatment of the Palestinians:

Considering the above link, and that they put all this other garbage in them, why not?

Perhaps "they" can put nanochips in vaccines. So what? You haven't shown that there are nanochips in vaccines. Until you have, you are relying on conjecture and vehemence to support your position on this. And that may be why your position is not taken very seriously.

Lhug-Pa wrote:These greedy, polluting corporations & Zionist banksters (who now have control of many governments, big pharma, most major "scientific" institutions, etc.) have not shown that they're any different than the crackers who gave smallpox infested blankets to the Native American Tribes. :

OK, coupla things here.

1. Can you demonstrate that Zionist banksters in fact are in control of many governments, big pharma, scientific institutions, and so on? I'll grant you the corporatist argument; it's the Zionist side that rings a bit much like the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, which is to say, discredited rubbish.

2. Are you really ready to argue that vaccines preventing such diseases as polio and rubella are in fact analogous somehow to biological warfare agents such as smallpox blankets? Are you familiar with the scholarship on the effectiveness of vaccines, and the lack of scholarship in support of your position?

3. Finally, it wasn't crackers* who distributed poisoned blankets among the tribes. It was well-blooded Englishmen at Fort Pitt, military officers. Not the poorest of the poor.

*for those not familiar with it, cracker is a racist epithet for poor and marginalized whites. see: John Hartigan, Odd Tribes: A cultural history of white people

Didn't say that nanochips are in vaccines. I said that they very well could be. My point is that resorting to ridicule is not evidence that something is not happening. And besides, like I said, vaccines are harmful in many other ways, so if we don't accept vaccines then we don't have to worry so much about if there are nanochips in them.

From what I understand, the term cracker is actually derived from whip-cracker....

Look at how much money the U.S. government gives to the state of Israel. Look at how many top bankers are Zionists (as is said, follow the money).

See also the postings on vaccines by the Dharmawheel forum member Thrasymachus, he's posted a lot of research on them.

From the above-linked CNN article:

CNN "News" wrote:The project was funded in part by the U.S. Department of Defense. "The applications for the defense community are huge in terms of intelligence gathering," Green says, such as creating faster, better spy satellites.

Look at all the draconian bills getting passed by the Dronebomba administration—which are carrying on in full force the anti-liberty "Patriot Act" work of our old Neocon buddy George W. Bush—allowing the corrupt government to spy on its own citizens more, imprison them, kill innocent unarmed people with drones, etc. You don't think they would put nanochips in vaccines!?

Lhug-Pa wrote:Look at all the Draconian bills getting passed by the Dronebomba administration—which are carrying on in full force the anti-liberty "Patriot Act" work of our old Neocon buddy George W. Bush—allowing the corrupt government to spy on its own citizens more, imprison them, kill innocent unarmed people with drones, etc. You don't think they would put nanochips in vaccines!?:

You keep saying "would" or "can" but you have not yet shown that such nanochip vaccines exist. You attempt to obfuscate this behind a whirl of rhetorical flourish.

Do you have any evidence to support your claim that there are nanochips in vaccines? That some cabal of Zionists is in control of the works?