That's patently untrue. If I believed Rebellion Studios made 'Sins' (or the expansion), then I wouldn't touch it. Their Aliens vs. Predator game was weak as hell. The old PC ones still blow it out of the water.

It is good, I have to say. The units are good and the fact that you can have capital ships that upgrade with experience is great. It does have it's faults though, you expand your empire by going to another planet/asteroid and capturing it, where you upgrade it's gravity well with certain defenses and whatnot. However, this means that all of the fighting is done in these bubbles pretty much, where you'll essentially throw your army of ships into one tightly constrained area and slug it out. There's no real defensive strategy except to find a planet that has a limited number of entry/exit points (phase lanes), build a bunch of defensive structures and use it to fall back to defend there. Later on you can upgrade your tech to not need those phase lanes anymore, yee haw, big game changer. There's a hard limit on how many ships you can have too, so in games with larger maps you can really wind up just chasing each other's armies around the board.

I want to sue Stardock for putting out SOASE: Rebellion and making it seem like it was going to be a sequel but all it is is a glorified expansion: Three new factions which are splinter groups of the three from the original game, a titan-class capital ship, and some new kinds of diplomacy. I was very disappointed honestly. Although, if you haven't played the original, get the "sequel" and you'll enjoy it.

Spindle:I want to sue Stardock for putting out SOASE: Rebellion and making it seem like it was going to be a sequel but all it is is a glorified expansion: Three new factions which are splinter groups of the three from the original game, a titan-class capital ship, and some new kinds of diplomacy. I was very disappointed honestly. Although, if you haven't played the original, get the "sequel" and you'll enjoy it.

I feared it would end up as this. Sins is kind of like Civ V for me, i'll keep a game running by myself for a while. I like to get a huge galaxy and set out to conquer it by having everyone gleefully join the light of unity. When playing with my friends, they really don't like their citizens being brainwashed into my slaves.

It's not too bad. I actually only bought it as a knee-jerk reaction to Stardock's Customer Bill of Rights (which is pretty awesome), and when I played the game itself, I was like, "This is fun, but I prefer GalCiv 2". YMMV, of course. It's a lot more combat-focused that GalCiv 2. It's a game of fleets, basically, where GalCiv is a game of empires.

For the people who think this is stupid, in order to maintain a trademark, you need to affirmatively defend it. It's not like copyright where your work automatically has a copyright from the moment you create it until what is effectively forever (amusingly, there were studio executives who wanted copyright term to be "forever minus one day" to circumvent the Constitutional requirement that copyright be temporary).

To have a trademark, you have to use it and you have to affirmatively defend it. It's like the Elder Scrolls / Minecraft thing. Your lawyers have to go through the stupid lawyer motions.

My favorite part of SINS: Rebellion is playing as the loyalist Vasari faction. They have an empire tree that allows you to do away with Capital planets altogether and an option to destroy planets completely to gain massive resources. I am currently leaving a swath of destruction behind me in a huge multi-star galaxy and it is lots of fun.

cgraves67:I was just reading up on SoaSE. It says there is no single-player campaign.

Is it strictly multi-player or is it like Civ where you have a sandbox map to exploit?

Are the victory conditions strictly domination?

Is it on Steam?

It is on steam. There is no story driven campaign, think Civilization single player.

There are multiple victory conditions. The diplomacy is actually very deep, even in single player. You even have specialized envoy ships that grant bonuses to the gravity well they're in while they build reputation with that faction. As you ramp up reputation you get access to resource pacts, mutual defense pacts, intel pacts. You can put up bounties for other players.

Levarien:cgraves67: I was just reading up on SoaSE. It says there is no single-player campaign.

Is it strictly multi-player or is it like Civ where you have a sandbox map to exploit?

Are the victory conditions strictly domination?

Is it on Steam?

It is on steam. There is no story driven campaign, think Civilization single player.

There are multiple victory conditions. The diplomacy is actually very deep, even in single player. You even have specialized envoy ships that grant bonuses to the gravity well they're in while they build reputation with that faction. As you ramp up reputation you get access to resource pacts, mutual defense pacts, intel pacts. You can put up bounties for other players.

it's a really great game.

Sounds interesting. I may pick it up from Steam when G&K starts getting a bit stale.

cgraves67:Levarien: cgraves67: I was just reading up on SoaSE. It says there is no single-player campaign.

Is it strictly multi-player or is it like Civ where you have a sandbox map to exploit?

Are the victory conditions strictly domination?

Is it on Steam?

It is on steam. There is no story driven campaign, think Civilization single player.

There are multiple victory conditions. The diplomacy is actually very deep, even in single player. You even have specialized envoy ships that grant bonuses to the gravity well they're in while they build reputation with that faction. As you ramp up reputation you get access to resource pacts, mutual defense pacts, intel pacts. You can put up bounties for other players.

it's a really great game.

Sounds interesting. I may pick it up from Steam when G&K starts getting a bit stale.

It's definitely worth the price of admission, even at full price. It's got that "1 more turn" feeling even though it's real time. I end up saying, "1 more gravity well" at 2am.

I loved the gameplay, but I was really disappointed by the lack of a story-driven campaign or more depth to the factions and maps than a basic description in the manual.

I get that they're going for the whole, early 90s 4X game feel, but it's not the 90s anymore. Games can deliver more than a floppy disk's worth of content. I'll just play Master of Orion if I'm looking for Master of Orion.

Especially if you load out it's hangers with bombers you can be a real bastard against enemy capital ships (especially with that 60 drone swarm ultimate).

As a tip to new players, most of the time combat is about setting yourself up for the situation you are heading in to. Recon is your friend, know before you charge blindly into a new system. Your fighters will mostly do their own thing but you need to make sure you have a counter to their counter for your counter's original counter.

Do you have a current article about it? Last i can find is Relic hinting at a Homeworld sequel in 2008 and 2011, and what looks like a failed petition for Homeworld 3 from last year? As much as i love Sins, Homeworld is in a class of it's own.

Weaver95:Farking Canuck: Spindle: Although, if you haven't played the original, get the "sequel" and you'll enjoy it.

Seriously. If I am interested in this game ... should I skip the original and go directly to the 'sequel'?

i'm thinking i'll just bite the bullet and get Rebellion. its sounding like this is a pretty decent game.

Stardock in general is good game play but nothing ground breaking in game experience. Pretty graphics, they don't crash, they're robust. The three issues are:

1. The AI is moronic.2. The fleet caps are annoying small if you like to build massive empires. Actually the concept of fleet cap is stupid. You take over 6 more planets and can't build any more ships. Every time you grab a planet you should get a bump, you don't.3. Can only run on one core and lags up on long games.

You can correct #2 by modding some files. Just pop open the file and change your caps. The downside is this makes it even harder for the AI since it has no idea how to handle the larger fleet size. Number 1 and Number 3 are just problems.

Overall I feel like the entire Sins franchise is intended for multi player matches that don't go beyond a couple hours or so length. That is where the engine shines with things cinematic mode for the battles and the like. As the game stretches on it bogs down (and can't make use of the resources on your machine since it can't use multiple cores) and the AI just keep shooting itself in its foot.

It's a remake of Imperium Galatica II with better visual candy and some other changes, but at the end of the day it is 90% the IG2 game experience and nothing you haven't play before. If you've found yourself wanting that kind of game, Sins is a good purchase. If had no specific desire for that I'd keep the money, you aren't missing anything revolutionary.

/own it//I like to play it on long flights to Asia as it is a fun little time sink but that is about the only time I play it/supposedly the next Sins will have a new engine and all that. I'm hoping Stardock does more than just keep cloning older 4x RTS space games now that they have a brand name in Sins and money from all its sales. Otherwise it is going to feel like the Madden of space sims, where all you get is improved graphics and new names on the ships.

Weaver95:Farking Canuck: Spindle: Although, if you haven't played the original, get the "sequel" and you'll enjoy it.

Seriously. If I am interested in this game ... should I skip the original and go directly to the 'sequel'?

i'm thinking i'll just bite the bullet and get Rebellion. its sounding like this is a pretty decent game.

It is but you have to like RTS. I had heard about it for years and picked it up for 5 bucks at half priced books cause I thought it was a bit less RTS and a bit more like civilization. Wrong, not only is it a pure (albiet cool) RTS its got a pretty dense learning curve, one that I was unable to penetrate.

Then again I suck at RTS's and never had the patience for them.

I picked up Galatic Civilization 2 and realized that was the game I was looking for. Its a fricken blast.

I will entire the day I die likely find a way to get Rebellion and RebEd working on every laptop I own. Also Lucas Arts, if you made quality remarks of SW:Rebellion and the X-Wing/TIE series you would make so much money it isn't even funny. Why do you not do this?

/no that little RTS game with the weird criminal faction does not count as a quality remake of Rebellion

Shakes999:Weaver95: Farking Canuck: Spindle: Although, if you haven't played the original, get the "sequel" and you'll enjoy it.

Seriously. If I am interested in this game ... should I skip the original and go directly to the 'sequel'?

i'm thinking i'll just bite the bullet and get Rebellion. its sounding like this is a pretty decent game.

It is but you have to like RTS. I had heard about it for years and picked it up for 5 bucks at half priced books cause I thought it was a bit less RTS and a bit more like civilization. Wrong, not only is it a pure (albiet cool) RTS its got a pretty dense learning curve, one that I was unable to penetrate.

Then again I suck at RTS's and never had the patience for them.

I picked up Galatic Civilization 2 and realized that was the game I was looking for. Its a fricken blast.

I will entire the day I die likely find a way to get Rebellion and RebEd working on every laptop I own. Also Lucas Arts, if you made quality remarks of SW:Rebellion and the X-Wing/TIE series you would make so much money it isn't even funny. Why do you not do this?

/no that little RTS game with the weird criminal faction does not count as a quality remake of Rebellion

Glad to see some real Rebellion love in this thread. One of my most favorite strategy games of all time. I have revisited that game more than any other. Once you get past the old graphics the fun gameplay comes back through. Heavy on the micro but a ton of fun. I wish this game would have spawned sequels.

Does anyone know of more games of similar deep-strategy caliber to Stardock's Galactic Civilizations 2? I can't get enough of that game, but I'm looking for something with functional multiplayer. Thanks in advance.

Giskard1708:Does anyone know of more games of similar deep-strategy caliber to Stardock's Galactic Civilizations 2? I can't get enough of that game, but I'm looking for something with functional multiplayer. Thanks in advance.

Like the above poster Endless Space is the way to go. Great indie developer. Game is still evolving and being worked on. Great UI, good gameplay, functional multiplayer. Varied sizes of galaxies. Custom factions. Custom ship designs. I can't say enough about it. It is just a great Space Conquest game in the Civ style. It is simultaneous turn-based. Combat is in stages and you play modifier cards on each stage.

Giskard1708:Does anyone know of more games of similar deep-strategy caliber to Stardock's Galactic Civilizations 2? I can't get enough of that game, but I'm looking for something with functional multiplayer. Thanks in advance.

Sword of the Stars II was supposed to be that game, but it was a total disaster. They may have patched it into something decent now. As it stands there really isn't anything on the market right now.

Endless Space appears to have some potential in that direction (http://endless-space.amplitude-studios.com/) but it is in Alpha and pretty vanilla so far (three races: one with missiles, one with lasers, one with rail guns). It is RTS, but I figure I'll see where it is in a year, so far it doesn't have anything that makes me want to buy it.

ha-ha-guy:Giskard1708: Does anyone know of more games of similar deep-strategy caliber to Stardock's Galactic Civilizations 2? I can't get enough of that game, but I'm looking for something with functional multiplayer. Thanks in advance.

Sword of the Stars II was supposed to be that game, but it was a total disaster. They may have patched it into something decent now. As it stands there really isn't anything on the market right now.

Endless Space appears to have some potential in that direction (http://endless-space.amplitude-studios.com/) but it is in Alpha and pretty vanilla so far (three races: one with missiles, one with lasers, one with rail guns). It is RTS, but I figure I'll see where it is in a year, so far it doesn't have anything that makes me want to buy it.

Ehh no Endless Space is out and very functional, also it is turn based.

Your games suck huge cock and have almost become as synonymous with shiatty games as LJN. Please stop trying to smear your shiatty hands all over good game studios such as Stardock in a desperate bid to get EA to notice your pathetic "game studio" before you go completely bankrupt. Shut the fark up and fade into obscurity like a bad video game company should.

ha-ha-guy:2. The fleet caps are annoying small if you like to build massive empires. Actually the concept of fleet cap is stupid. You take over 6 more planets and can't build any more ships. Every time you grab a planet you should get a bump, you don't.

They don't automatically increase your fleet caps because you have to spend the resources on the increased command points to increase your fleet caps. The trade off is that an increased fleet cap costs more credits to keep going, so you need more planets to support it tax wise. If you keep your fleet cap low, you'll have higher income and can replace any lost ships quickly. If you increase the fleet cap, you can maintain a larger fleet, but your income is slower, and any losses will take longer to replace. if you increase the cap too much, you'll be losing money and are totally screwed.

It's actually a pretty good bit of balance where you can't just go for a giant fleet to crush your opponents right away, because your empire won't be large enough to support it.

/ Anyone else usually play with pirates off? While I find the ability to bribe the pirates to attack someone else amusing, after a while they just get annoying. I only wish that turning them off also removed their base from the map.// Also, I love firing my giant space cannon at a planet several stars away.

pjfry:Bleyo: Has anyone played Legends of Pegasus? It is supposed to be a direct competitor to Sins and was released last week, I think.

I've also been wondering about Legends of Pegasus and am curious to hear about it. Love me some Sins and Galactic Civ and haven't had the time to get into Endless Space, yet.

I messed around with Endless Space a little bit. I did a quick game on easy difficulty just to see what it was about. It looks like it can get pretty complex with the ship customization and battle stages, but I just clicked the "Optimize ship" button and let the AI do the ship battles. Making a custom empire also seems like it could be neat if I put some time into it.

From what I actually did play, the heroes were pretty cool and the gameplay was on par with other turn based space strategy games. I'd have to get deeper into the customization to give a real verdict though.

Barry McCackiner:ha-ha-guy: Giskard1708: Does anyone know of more games of similar deep-strategy caliber to Stardock's Galactic Civilizations 2? I can't get enough of that game, but I'm looking for something with functional multiplayer. Thanks in advance.

Sword of the Stars II was supposed to be that game, but it was a total disaster. They may have patched it into something decent now. As it stands there really isn't anything on the market right now.

Endless Space appears to have some potential in that direction (http://endless-space.amplitude-studios.com/) but it is in Alpha and pretty vanilla so far (three races: one with missiles, one with lasers, one with rail guns). It is RTS, but I figure I'll see where it is in a year, so far it doesn't have anything that makes me want to buy it.

Ehh no Endless Space is out and very functional, also it is turn based.

Aren't turns simultaneous? I recall seeing a video of that on Youtube and to me at least they gave it a very RTS feel since things resolve at the same time for that turn. As for Alpha, when I go to their progress site , Alpha is the only one in white text which to says it is the one in progress or the only one completed. If it is 1.0 by now, they need to update that site.

Rising_Zan_Samurai_Gunman:ha-ha-guy: 2. The fleet caps are annoying small if you like to build massive empires. Actually the concept of fleet cap is stupid. You take over 6 more planets and can't build any more ships. Every time you grab a planet you should get a bump, you don't.

They don't automatically increase your fleet caps because you have to spend the resources on the increased command points to increase your fleet caps. The trade off is that an increased fleet cap costs more credits to keep going, so you need more planets to support it tax wise. If you keep your fleet cap low, you'll have higher income and can replace any lost ships quickly. If you increase the fleet cap, you can maintain a larger fleet, but your income is slower, and any losses will take longer to replace. if you increase the cap too much, you'll be losing money and are totally screwed.

It's actually a pretty good bit of balance where you can't just go for a giant fleet to crush your opponents right away, because your empire won't be large enough to support it.

/ Anyone else usually play with pirates off? While I find the ability to bribe the pirates to attack someone else amusing, after a while they just get annoying. I only wish that turning them off also removed their base from the map.// Also, I love firing my giant space cannon at a planet several stars away.

That's not the point. I'm fine with more command points taking a larger chunk of my income for logistic costs. The problem is at 12 planets (plus a couple asteroid systems, etc) and playing as Terran Loyalist I can easily be at max command points and full fleet. Refineries, economic starbases, trade ports give me a massive industrial base that early on. I can also easily rebuild that fleet. As I move on to conquer the other 70 planets on the map I can't increase my fleet despite taking those planets over and building industry on them. Rebellion needs two formulas where:

So if I'm at max command points, have 0 spare ones, and take a planet and develop it, I should get some more room to build ships. By the same token when I build those ships, the percentage of income I spend to support my fleet should spike when I build those ships.

If I have 50 planets and my enemy has 25, I should be able to massively outbuild him, but Rebellions caps ensure I'm fighting battles where the guy with 25 has a force advantage since we have the same size fleet and he has defensive resources in his system. So every time it becomes a war of attrition where I just spam corvettes into his system and try to drain his Empire's resources. I should be able to drop a fleet 2x the size of his and win a decisive battle, but the game prevents that.