Posted 3 years ago on April 20, 2013, 11:50 a.m. EST by sophiaomni
(289)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

We are discussing the connection between religion and extremist violence on a forum for college students. If you have an interesting position on this topic, we welcome your insights (you don't have to agree with us):

"So this is a song about tomorrow and about how tomorrow can be better. if we all,
"Each one reach one, Each one try to teach one".
Nobody can do everything,
but everybody can do something,
everyone must play a part,
everyone got to go to work - Work for Peace.
Spirit Say Work, Work for Peace
If you believe the things you say, go to work.
If you believe in Peace, time to go to work.
Can't be waving your head no more, go to work.''

Any belief system can be radicalized, not just religion, but national identity, or even political/economic views. Twist them enough and Christianity will allow the Spanish Inquisition, British nationalism will enslave millions, and capitalism will fight endless wars to secure profits.

The interesting question to me, though, is whether there is something intrinsic to religion (e.g., a life-denying tendency) that lends itself so readily to acts like this. But I agree any belief system can become perverted.

Well, well, well ... lookey here !!! Have you read the Quran ?!! Hells bells, for that matter - have you read the Torah ?! Seems full of slaughter, xenophobia, chauvinism, violence, rape, incest and pillage, right ?

You are a fkn bigot and I feel sorry for benjamin weiss - if not his crazy, dem-shill dad !!! You - as ever, want to tar over a billion people with your same, old, dirty, poisonous, bigot-brush !! I could copy, quote out of context and twist the 'Kol Nidre' prayer for example, to defame en masse another religion - but if I did that with malice aforethought like you - wtf would that make me ?! You can't help yourself really can you ? You are a scumbag and you can tell ben I said so.

The difference between the Torah & the Quran is that the Quran encourages violence in stead of just reporting history.
anti-semetic aren't you ?

Have you read the Quran?
Here a few of the dictates & gems:
2:39 But they who disbelieve, and deny Allah’s revelations, will reside in the fire of hell.
2:61 Humiliation and wretchedness were stamped upon the Jews by Allah
2:65 Allah made Jews who broke the Sabbath, disbelieved in Allah's revelations and slew the prophets - into apes
2:96 Jews are the greediest of mankind.
2:191 And slay the disbelievers.
3:12 Say unto those who disbelieve: Ye shall be overcome and gathered unto Hell
3:15 For those who keep from evil receive Paradise & Gardens underneath which rivers flow wherein they will abide,
and pure companions, and contentment from Allah. [ heaven & virgins ].
3:73 And believe not , save in one who followeth Allah.
4:3 Marry of the women, who seem good to you, two or three or four [ polygamy ]
4:14 And whoso disobeyeth Allah and His messenger and transgresseth His limits, He will make him enter fire
4:34 Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other. As for those women from
whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart [ no sex ], and beat them
4:56 Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the Fire.
4:57 And as for those who believe and do good works, We shall make them enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow –
to dwell therein for ever; there for them are pure companions [ paradise & virgins ]
4:74 Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.
4:89 Choose no friend nor helper from among disbelievers [ how to form peaceful alliances ??? ]
4:93 Whoso slayeth a believer of Allah, his reward is hell for ever. [ is this the strongest indictment of Islam’s insanity – how many thousands of Allah’s Shiites and Allah’s Sunnis have murdered each other? ]

How many of these do you agree with ?

If Jews had killed as many Jews in the last 60 years as
Arabs/Muslims have killed Arabs/Muslims = 11,000,000
there would be no Jews

"Anti-semetic" ?! How utterly wrong you are, scumbag !! You actually seem to think that you can throw that term around, in the hope that it will intimidate people and that I should be cowed into silence !!!

"Here a few of the dictates & gems", you say. ''Gems'' ?! I do not agree with any of this absurd Abrahamic Mumbo Jumbo but how about you, seeing as though you regard the Torah as ''history'' !!

Readers will note your clear glee here at cherry picking absurdities in order to malign over a billion people and will also clearly observe your amnesiac myopia and deranged personal preoccupations !

Christians in Europe have been slaughtering each other in the name of religion, politics and nationalism for centuries but you can not extend these realisations to people of another religion. Your mouth is shut, your brain is switched off and your heart blocked on that matter. You choose to crudely lump all Arabic speaking people & Muslims together in order to justify your deep seated bigotry and crude propaganda.

You want to forget the Judaic communities from Casablanca to Kabul, Sana'a to Samarkand, who lived in safety and security for centuries in Muslim countries as you wish to promulgate Islamophobia here & the Neo-Con ''Clash of Civilisations'' thesis. Why ? Because you - 'eric-mideast-bensdad-weiss', are an 'Israel First, Conservative Democrat' shill. I could say, much, much more but I will await your reply and leave you to cast your smears at these people too :

I'm not propagandizing -
I am quoting the Quran - the book written by a man that many follow without question: Here are a few more suras:
9:1 Ye(Moslems) are not bound by treaties made with idolaters.
9:4 Excepting those of the idolaters with whom ye (Muslims) have a treaty, and who have since abated nothing of your right nor have supported anyone against you.
9:5 Slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them ambush.
9:30 Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allah. Allah's curse be on them!
9:33 Allah will cause Islam to prevail over all religion, however much the idolaters may be averse.
9:41 Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah!
9:107 Non-Moslems verily are liars.
10:93 And We (Allah) verily did allot unto the Children of Israel a fixed abode (land), and did provide them with good things; [ then why do today’s Moslems want to steal Israel ]
16:101 And when We put a revelation in place of (another) revelation, - and Allah knoweth best what He revealeth –
they say: Lo! thou art but inventing. [ This is the doctreine of abrogation that means a later “laws” replace earlier “laws”. ]
18:26 Allah maketh none to share In reply to: His government. [ Allah is dictator; democracy is heracy ]

Death and destruction visited upon people can cause psychopathology in the most unlikely places. You Are Propagandising (as you have been doing for a long time on this forum) and the Boston bombing has little to do with with Islam and more to do with violence, hatred and bigotry begetting the same. There is no defence for what those two nutters did but there are reasons - whether you can accept them or not.

You should stop masquerading as any kind of progressive and face the reactionary, conservative, bigot that you really are. Also be advised - 'eric-mideast-bensdad-weiss', that the Torah can be quoted out of context & twisted too & that 'terror is as terror does'. You are an ass & your soft head & hard heart are disconnected & pathologised, so these links are useless to you but may be of some interest to others :

From the last link : "You are with us or you are with the terrorists” - cowboy Bush declared, using the tragedy of 9/11 to justify killing & displacing over a million Muslims in Iraq. And, ballasting our fracked economy with our endless “war on terror,” (“Bomb-Bomb-Iran” McCain has called for a 100 years’ war!), we and our allies can devastate Libya, occupy Palestine, threaten Iran with nuclear extirpation, seed a civil war in Syria and on and on without a moment’s pause! Can we really suppose they “hate us for our freedoms,” and overlook the fact that we are killing, maiming, torturing and occupying where they live ?"

“Oppressed people cannot remain oppressed forever,” King warned in his letter; and even Samuel P. Huntington, who, in the 1990s, laid the academic/intellectual foundations for a “Clash of Civilizations” warned : “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact - non-Westerners never do.”

It was not an accident that America has been drawn into the mideast conflict. Aside from the international corporate interest in oil (which has little to do with the economic prosperity of average Americans, and would not be a justification for our policies there even if it did) America has been drawn into that conflict for the very reason that it is a conflict likely to go on for centuries, and therefore provide the pretext for centuries of war, and profits for the purveyers of war (these same international corporations). So we must now make the distinction between Americans and the international corporations that now use America and Americans in their name.

These are the overriding questions for American citizens themselves, and are aside from the historical and political questions in the region itself.

So Shall we (American citizens) lend our weight, our lives, our moral integrity to an essentially irrational foreign conflict without end? For no one can tell me that this conflict - regardless of current conditions and justifications favoring one side or the other - does not have its roots in internecine hatred. . . So shall we?

The best way for us to help achieve peace is through our disengagement from these irrational schemas and their resulting alliances.

The Hippocratic oath says "First, do no harm." I wish to God politicians took this oath and were forced to adhere to it. So, let us then disengage through sustainable energy independence, and add no further fuel to the flames.

It seems there is little else we can do that is not driven by an unrealistic belief in a greater power to influence the course of events for the positive than we actually have.

I wish both Jews and Moslems well. I have no reason to do otherwise, but I don't see how our involvement on one side or the other (excpet perhaps through diplomacy) can make any difference to the outcome in the long run. To believe otherwise is to think we are more powerful on many levels than we actually are.

'The horror of Boston should be a reminder that the choice of weaponry can be in itself an act of evil. “Boston Bombs Were Loaded to Maim” is the way The New York Times defined the hideousness of the weapons used, and President Obama made clear that “anytime bombs are used to target innocent civilians, it is an act of terror.” But are we as a society prepared to be judged by that standard?'

When the christians in Europe were living in mud huts, the Arabs/Muslims had very advanced civilzations throughout the Middle East, North Africa and Spain

And when the Euopeans were being victimized by the tyrannical Catholic church in the Dark Ages, Spain with the help of the Muslims was living in an enlightened, tolerant period long before the Renaisance took hold

And if it hadn't been for the Muslims, much of the art science, and philosophy of the Greeks and the Romans would have been lost

Today unlike many other parts of Europe, Spain's rich multi-cultural heritage is being celebrated

You gotta think about quitting commenting for a while, and start learning more

A bit of traveling might 'help' too. Guzzling daiquiris in a pool-bar and gorging yourself at the buffet table in a Caribbean resort won't 'help' though

I'm not saying all Muslims are "evil"
The Bible condones slavery and stoning and bigamy
but I don't think there are any " Judeo-Christian" countries
that still adhere to that way of life

the "laws" of the Quran - have you read it ?-
are obeyed exactly TODAY by millions. It is scary.
Here are a few more quotes from the Quran
20:71 (Pharaoh) said: Ye put faith in him before I give you leave. Now surely I shall cut off your hands and your feet alternately, and I shall crucify you on the trunks of palm trees. [ Egyptians never used or even knew of crucifiction ]
21:33 And He it is Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They float, each in an orbit. [As the bible pretends to know physics too ]
24:2 The adulterer and the adulteress, scourge ye each one of them (with) a hundred stripes. And let a party of believers witness their punishment.
33:50 We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war. [ Poligamy; “thy right hand possetheth” is the Quranic term for slaves. You can marry your slaves. - harem ]
36:40 It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit.
[ again – wrong physics – which, like the Bible, is a who cares stupidity – but it clearly shows this book was not created by Allah – unless Allah can make a stupid mistake. ]
37:40-8 Single-minded slaves of Allah - with them are those of modest gaze, with lovely eyes, [ obedient slaves of Allah will enjoy a Garden filled with lovely-eyed virgins in Paradise.]

You want us to read those passages in the Quran and then exptrapolate from them that the Muslim religion is screwed up, hence it is 'our duty' to subjugate and kill as many of them as we can

You want us to ignore the pervasive pedophilia that has went on in the Catholic church for hundreds of years and all over the world

And you want us to ignore the Christian Zions in this country for their carte blanche support of Israel, and the daily degradation and brutality that they bring to so many Palestinians in the squalid refugee camps that they are forced to live in

Shall we also forget the unjust wars, the drone attacks and all the innocent people who have been killed so that we can maintain and expand Empire?

You are the epitome of a small-minded, ethnocentric ass

~Odin~

And just for the record, I was baptized Catholic and I am of northern European heritage

I am not afraid of Muslims
I am afraid of the Quran - have you ever read it? I have.
Do you know what taqiyya is?
Do you know what a fatwah is?
Do you know who Theo VanGough is?

from the Quran:

33:50 We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war. [ Poligamy; “thy right hand possetheth” is the Quranic term for slaves. You can marry your slaves. - harem ]
36:40 It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit.
[ again – wrong physics – which, like the Bible, is a who cares stupidity – but it clearly shows this book was not
created by Allah – unless Allah can make a stupid mistake. ]
37:40-8 Single-minded slaves of Allah - with them are those of modest gaze, with lovely eyes,
[ obedient slaves of Allah will enjoy a Garden filled with lovely-eyed virgins in Paradise.]
38:52 And with them are those of modest gaze, companions in Paradise. [ virgins ]
44:54 In Paradise, believers shall wed them unto fair ones with wide, lovely eyes.
47:4 Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks [ decapitation ]
56:24-33 Believers will be reward for what they used to do. Among thornless lote-trees And clustered plantains,
And spreading shade, And water gushing, And fruit in plenty And raised couches; And made them virgins,
Allah made virgins to be lovers and friends to those - Lovers, friends.
60:1 Choose not My enemy and your enemy (disbelievers) for allies and friendship.
60:9 Allah forbiddeth you only those who warred against you on account of religion and have driven you out from your
homes and helped to drive you out, that ye make friends of them. Whosoever maketh friends of them –
(All) such are wrong- doers. [ So Iraq’s Sunnis & Shiites are ordered by Allah to never become allies ???? ]

Much nearer to the time of the writing of the Quran took place, diverse cultures including Muslim were living in relative harmony, especially compared to the Dark Ages in Europe where the Catholic church ruled with an 'iron fist'

Is it any wonder that Muslims take comfort in their religion? Isn't that the same thing Christians do when confronted with subjugation, or with life or death experiences?

You still haven't read all the atrocities that took place in the Old Testament at God's beckoning, have you?

You must face the fact that you are a racist xenophobe, and that there is no help for you. Just continue living in you little myopic world

I do not regard ANY book as a "God"
God is inside of each of us
When we feed ourselves what was written by men and claim it was written by God - THATS when the hatred sets in
One of the big differences between the Bible & the New Testament & the Quran is that the majority of the first two are "history lessons" with some "rules of life" - that most modern Jews & Christions do not obey 100%.
Very few Jews & Christians, for example practice bigamy or use the death penalty.
The Quran is mostly "rules of life" which encourage war & slavery & bigamy & torture - all IN LAW in many Muslim countries today.

All Christians & Jews are not evil or good
The Bible, written by men, may have been inspired by God.

All Muslims are not evil or good
The Quran, written by men, may have been inspired by Allah.

From the Bible:
“[The promiscuous daughter] shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house. You must purge the evil from among you.”

I have not heard of a single Christian or Jewish woman being stoned to death
for any offence in 1000+ years.
Have you?

Thousands of Germans murdered millions of Jews in 1945 –
…..but that did not come from the Bible.
Dozens of “witches” were burned by the Protestants in 1692 –
...but that did not come from the Bible.
Hundreds of Jews were killed by Spanish Catholics in 1492 –
…..but that did not come from the Bible.

Most “civilized” countries that had used “an eye for an eye” to justify
capital punishment, have evolved away from this Biblical barbarism.

From the Quran:
5:38 "As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands.
….It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah."

As of September 2010, stoning is a punishment that is included in the laws in seven Muslim countries including Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Sudan, Iran, Yemen, the United Arab Emirates, and some states in Nigeria. It is used regularly.
I have OFTEN heard of Muslim women ( and men ) being stoned to death for many different offences and having offenders’ limbs cut off.
Have you?

Many Islamic countries & societies OBEY the Quran’s dictates of violence and hatred and sadly have not yet found a way to evolve beyond these barbarities and dictates written more than 1000 years ago .

All Christians & Jews are not evil or good
The Bible is not evil or good

All Muslims are not evil or good
The Quran is not evil or good

The EVIL comes from how a book’s believers blindlyOBEY the dictates in the books – written by men and ordered by men -
that they worship.

Do you know what an Imam’s fatwa is?
…Ask Salman Rushdie or Theo VanGough or any of the victims of “honor killings”

Interesting topic. I think that students ought to be exposed to these kinds of ideas about the dangers of certain kinds of religious belief. Right now throughout the South they are being brain-washed into thinking that the only way to look at the world is through a religious (i.e., fundamentalist Christian) framework. Thank God I live in a part of the country where nobody gives a damn about organized religion!!!

whatever part of the country you are from there are religious fanatics. those who would reject sound logic and science because some authority told them to do so. i approach religion from a anthropological, historical, and theological perspective. i believe that is how all men should approach the subject. how can you know of religions if you don't know about them? their origins and the origins of the practices and philosophies involved. the parts of the world they originated and the concerns of the people in those lands. i feel as if people approached matters of belief in this manner most would chose to adopt the practices and principals that they find practical, beneficial, and in general of good use to them while leaving the rest on the scrap heap of history. instead we are told you must believe x,y,z or you will never go to heaven, reach nirvana, etc. what a load of horse shit. i am sorry but if your religious beliefs dictate that those who don't believe your silly tale don't get to attain paradise then your religion is fucked. time to build something better.

The idea that the South somehow indoctrinates kids into some type of religious fanaticism is false. It’s just a way to slam Christians and suggest they are dangerous. And, no, I’m not a Christian. I’m agnostic. But to stereotype an entire region because it has a strong religious following is wrong. An apology is in order.

Besides, the days, the South isn’t any more religious than anywhere else in the US.

Although I've never lived in the South, I have heard that politics is slowly but surly replacing religion as an article of faith. I get the impression that a lot of Americans treat the Constitution as holy scripture and the Founders as great, holy men.

Well I submit we are all given guidelines when we grow up. Most criminals (like most citizens) were raised with religion.

Regardless of religious beliefs though even people who grow up without religion learn that hurting, stealing, & lying is wrong. Otherwise most criminals would be atheists.

My suggestion (theory) wouldbeto set aside the bronze age fairy tales, and focus on the real roots of these individual crimes, Petty theft/mugging-deal with poverty, Stealing little old ladies life savings- rethink the foundations of capitalism create a "we're in this together" concept, rather than "buyer beware, you're on your own" mentality.

Murder-deal with mental illness, get guns away from gangs, educate men better on how to deal with conflict, poverty.

So we don't need the "old white man in the sky with superpowers". We can raise our children better. And manage our society/economy more fairly.

I've done a lot of research - every one of your claims is a lie
can you prove they are dangerous? NO
can you prove "its a money thing"? NO
do you know how much money Mark Potok makes?
do you know how much wayne lapierre makes?
do you know how much pat robertson makes?

When any organization sets itself up to call other groups “hate” groups without any checks and balances it a disturbing situation. Seems to me if ANY group doesn’t match SPLC’s politically correct vision of the world they get labeled a hate group. I think their arbitrary and malicious on who they call a hate group. I do not trust their motives or agenda. I think people are waking up to the problems of the SPLC.

I don’t disagree there are hate groups. All I’m saying is the SPLC seems to call every group who doesn’t meet their politically correct ideals a hate group. You believe the MSM too much. SPLC are not the good guys you want them to be.

If it's all the same to you, I prefer not to retreat. I agree with you that at times religion can certainly be used as a means of population control and management. But you don't realize that some religious ideas (e.g., Catholic social teaching) is hated by those who control our society precisely because it challenges their economic and political control over the society. Your views on religion may be a bit too simplistic.

I agree with you in general, but I simply can't go as far as you do in condemning all forms of religion. I know too many religious leftists who are doing great work (including some who commented on the original piece). Still, I appreciate your thoughtfulness on the subject!

No, I'm not suggesting that at all. But you obviously don't know the kinds of Catholic leftists that I've met who are working against the new world order all around the world. The institution is more than just the Pope and Bishops.

In the end, it is all over the sharing of resources. Religion, like nationalism is just a way to separate one group from another in the fight for resources. It is more about geography than anything else.

Whatever adverse opinions or thoughts precipitate it is the act that we condemn.

Boston occurred for one reason and it was not incompetence, it was inability - an inability born of a pervasive correctness that has made appropriate action politically prohibitive; it has hijacked our security and prosperity. And this governing body must be held accountable.

I never said that religion is the root of all evil. I just said that there are tendencies in organized religion that lend themselves to being twisted. I was very careful to say that there are healthy forms of religious-mindedness.

From your last link: "Atheism itself isn't a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. Being killed by an atheist is no more being killed in the name of atheism than being killed by a tall person"

I think he meant intolerance causes conflict, religion not withstanding. There are many issues that incite intolerance. There are many ways to inflame emotions into us vs them. Just look at all the social issues our politicians keep braying about to keep the masses from focusing on being oppressed To blame religion is rather simple minded. Religion does a lot of good, too.