Kotaku - Planescape Torment Love Explained - Editorial

Originally Posted by SirJames
Mediocre combat and too much text is correct. I've installed Planescape 3 or 4 times and always got very bored and quit.

So what about Inquisitor? Mediocre, but superior to planescape, combat… Too much text but with more logical results and less "oh, that was random" things happening that don't relate to what you said.

Surely all the Planescape lovers also love Inquisitor?

There's probably a bit of "I'm so cool cos i played Planescape" going on too. I know this cos I wish I could say I liked it, as I do every other infinity engine game, but it was really just not all that good or I'd have made it through without getting bored.

Inquisitor had ok writing but not much depth,quality is nowhere near as good as PS:T,I completed PS:T multiple times and I quit inquisitor around beginning of act 3.
Game is far from perfect,it has it's low points but it has one of best stories in any video game and that outweigh it's flaws by far,at least for me.

MigRib - your tirade against the faults of traditional D&D is understandable, but it's more a reason to dislike, say, Icewind Dale, than Torment. Torment is very different because of its central theme. Dungeon crawling is secondary.

Anyway, if you're not going to play it, fine by me. But don't insert quips into a game's thread if the only experience you have with it is Youtube.

Originally Posted by Drithius
Anyway, if you're not going to play it, fine by me. But don't insert quips into a game's thread if the only experience you have with it is Youtube.

Yes, of course, we can't have an opinion about a game except if we played from beginning to end, right? But you can have opinions about war without having been in one, opinions about dictactorships while living in a democracy, opinions about religion while being an atheist… Makes sense.

Originally Posted by SirJames
There's probably a bit of "I'm so cool cos i played Planescape" going on too. I know this cos I wish I could say I liked it, as I do every other infinity engine game, but it was really just not all that good or I'd have made it through without getting bored.

If admitting you have a man-crush on a 14-year old cRPG that utilized a bastardized version of 2nd Ed. AD&D rules makes you cool than move over James Dean 'cause I'm ready for my close-up. I don't think there's any bragging or show-boating going on, nor do I discount the MANY people out there who also couldn't look past the heavy focus on story and lackluster focus on combat. And, yes, as a lover of the game I can admit the combat was fairly mundane.

Video games are subjective. There are some people out there who, for instance, absolutely LOVE all things Ultima. However, the whole Lord British "I made a game about myself and my D&D buddies" thing has always been a turn-off to me that I can't seem to look past. With the exception of Black Gate, of which I played a fair amount, I don't particularly enjoy any of those games. And yet, for many, those are top-shelf for the genre.

But please don't discount my gushing over Planescape as some phony attempt to prove that I'm too cool for school… because I'm not. I'm very uncool and pretty proud of that actually.

Originally Posted by Falchor
Video games are subjective. There are some people out there who, for instance, absolutely LOVE all things Ultima. However, the whole Lord British "I made a game about myself and my D&D buddies" thing has always been a turn-off to me that I can't seem to look past. With the exception of Black Gate, of which I played a fair amount, I don't particularly enjoy any of those games. And yet, for many, those are top-shelf for the genre.

But please don't discount my gushing over Planescape as some phony attempt to prove that I'm too cool for school… because I'm not. I'm very uncool and pretty proud of that actually.

Though the quote about the "coolness" of liking Planescape (or any other old school cRPG, for that matter) wasn't mine I think I could have something to add. It's not a question of being cool, but it may, sometimes, be a matter of acceptance among people who are, supposedly, experts in a field - in this case videogames. If you are among the hardcore gamers and want to be accepted as one you should love the classics and show your respect for them. Specially now that there is this nouvelle vague of "old schoolness" drowning the internet. I would never enter a room full of cinephiles and say out loud that I don't like Citizen Kane. Everybody would loose their respect for me in that precise moment. If I enter a forum about cRPG where almost everybody loves the classics (or, at least, claim to love the classics) then I will not be accepted as one them. I'm not saying that this is your case, but it might be case of many. The acceptance factor.

Originally Posted by MigRib
If I enter a forum about cRPG where almost everybody loves the classics (or, at least, claim to love the classics) then I will not be accepted as one them. I'm not saying that this is your case, but it might be case of many. The acceptance factor.

Completely understand… but one of the things that's nice about RPGWatch (as opposed to some of those "other" cRPG sites) is you have every right to slag one of the popular old-school games if you really feel strongly about it and can back it up with real data points, like "shoddy combat, non-memorable characters," etc. And some games, frankly, just don't work for all gamers in the same way some movies don't work for all movie-goers. For example, I happen to love "13th Warrior." I've seen that movie far too many times than I care to admit and yet I know it was universally trashed by critics. I also hate the critical darling "American Beauty" with a red-hot passion and will never understand the love thrown that movie's way for as long as I live (same with "The Departed"). And yet I run into people who love American Beauty and I have to outline my reasons for disliking it, all of which I think are valid.

So, games like movies, are just… subjective. If your reasons for disliking something are meaningful and amount to more than just "I don't want to get on the cool kid bandwagon" then I don't see any reason you can't loudly proclaim "Planescape: Torment, while a classic for some, didn't float my boat and never will."

Originally Posted by Falchor
Completely understand… but one of the things that's nice about RPGWatch (as opposed to some of those "other" cRPG sites) is you have every right to slag one of the popular old-school games if you really feel strongly about it and can back it up with real data points, like "shoddy combat, non-memorable characters," etc. And some games, frankly, just don't work for all gamers in the same way some movies don't work for all movie-goers. For example, I happen to love "13th Warrior." I've seen that movie far too many times than I care to admit and yet I know it was universally trashed by critics. I also hate the critical darling "American Beauty" with a red-hot passion and will never understand the love thrown that movie's way for as long as I live (same with "The Departed"). And yet I run into people who love American Beauty and I have to outline my reasons for disliking it, all of which I think are valid.

So, games like movies, are just… subjective. If your reasons for disliking something are meaningful and amount to more than just "I don't want to get on the cool kid bandwagon" then I don't see any reason you can't loudly proclaim "Planescape: Torment, while a classic for some, didn't float my boat and never will."

And that's why I'm still here… By the way, even if I don't hate American Beauty, I think it was highly overrated. The same with The Departed (Jack Nicholson can't save every movie he's in, and the original film was much better).

I think in general, there's a bit of snobbery here about turn-based old school RPGs. I tend to agree with much of what MigRib has said about gaming. I, too, tried FO 1 & 2, but also much prefer FO3 and FO:NV. And I'm a 65-year-old geezer.
I started playing cRPGs back in the early 80s when I worked for CDC in Minneapolis. Games like 'Labyrinth', 'Moria', 'Oubliette', and many other knock-offs of PnP games. There was even a 'Star Trek' game I played from home over a modem with a thermal paper printer. Went through many rolls of that stuff. I played 'Baldur's Gate', 'Icewind Dale', and many others. But I grew frustrated with the glacial pace of game play at times. Fumbling endlessly with Inventory and Combat choices and whatnot. I just wanted to get on with it. That's why, to me, the Gothic series and others in that vein were so attractive. I don't care for FPSs or games like Diablo or its Hack 'n Slash clones.
To me, the Gothics, FO3, FO:NV, Skyrim, and The Witcher hit the sweet spot. Even the craptacular Two Worlds was good, except for the atrocious dialog. Again, this is entirely a personal thing.

I think the Watch has a nice balance of people favoring different styles of RPG. While "old school TB" may have a strong following, I think that for Gothic and descendants is even stronger. There are plenty of TES fans, others like action RPGs some champion indie RPGs some think those are dumb. And although sometimes discussions get acrid and personal, there is no real hivemind I don't think.

Originally Posted by GhanBuriGhan
I think the Watch has a nice balance of people favoring different styles of RPG. While "old school TB" may have a strong following, I think that for Gothic and descendants is even stronger. There are plenty of TES fans, others like action RPGs some champion indie RPGs some think those are dumb. And although sometimes discussions get acrid and personal, there is no real hivemind I don't think.

I agree with you.
For me personally I love certain games in all those categories and have read many posts from other folks here that seem to have that same like/dislike as well, it's more based on the the individual games than the style/category of RPG they are.

Originally Posted by GhanBuriGhan
I think the Watch has a nice balance of people favoring different styles of RPG. While "old school TB" may have a strong following, I think that for Gothic and descendants is even stronger. There are plenty of TES fans, others like action RPGs some champion indie RPGs some think those are dumb. And although sometimes discussions get acrid and personal, there is no real hivemind I don't think..

I think that discussions on watch are rather peaceful compared to most forums I seen at least for time relatively short time I been here(I can't claim anything for P&R part since I rarely read those and never participate).

Also like Warmark I like all mentioned categories+lot of other genres,mostly strategies and adventures but I don't shy from other genres as well.I guess I am easily amused.

Originally Posted by GhanBuriGhan
I think the Watch has a nice balance of people favoring different styles of RPG. While "old school TB" may have a strong following, I think that for Gothic and descendants is even stronger. There are plenty of TES fans, others like action RPGs some champion indie RPGs some think those are dumb. And although sometimes discussions get acrid and personal, there is no real hivemind I don't think.

I agree as well as I don't perceive any particular snobbery towards old school or traditional combat/gameplay. In my case, I am just as excited about these old school Kickstarter RPGs as I am about the upcoming CDPR games.

I love PS:T, FO, Gothic and The Witcher but I am underwhelmed by BG and ME so the choice of combat or perspective is not the decisive factor for my enjoyment.