Microsoft&#39;s Ease of Use vs. Linux&#39; Sweat Equity

OSViews is running an article this morning that compares Windows and Linux. Not exactly a unique topic but one that's discussed and debated on a regular basis all over the internet.

Being filled with boundless naivete, I felt the success of Linux could probably be boiled down to this: If you undertake something knowing that it is reputedly very difficult, yet worthwhile, you don't do it with inflated expectations of immediate success. You do it with a certain amount of respect.

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#29270 Posted on: 05/18/2004 04:28 PM
While over on the Letter of marque thread on the other forum, I went to the UrbanDictionary and found this amusing (and appropriate) definition...

Definition of linux:

An alternative to Windows that appeals to the lesser human being, one who cannot accept the simplicity of double clicking an icon as opposed to typing into a console and coding what you want to do. Commonly mis-understood as being easy to use and generally '1337'.
Guy 1: "So, what ya'll upto tonight?"
Guy 2: "I'm gonna go to this party, full of chicks, smoke some ****, know what I'm sayin'?"
Linux nerd: "Oh, I'm going to write a script to take print screens of my desktop when I shut down"

A user said this is inaccurate. What's your call?

Needless to say, even as a Windows-Weenie (I only have two linux boxes at home... sorry) I voted to trash this inaccurate definition.Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant

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Mr. Hahn
Unregistered

#29271 Posted on: 05/18/2004 10:28 PM
if you want easy to use, get an apple.

But I really don't think linux is any easier to use. Thanks to idiots that prefer choice over quality, their million geek parade ends up divided. This is why there are like 2 or 3 different tool kits for doing the same damn thing. Aswell as the hundreds of stupid ass linux distros whose only real diffference is the package manager and some of the directory stucture. Why would anyone want to use some hacked up gnu program when some real company went and built one for windows and mac os because they actually have a standard tooll kit (having paying users also helps too). I must say though, I have tried Fedora linux, it seemed easier at first glance, the updater looks like windows update and updates all the packages automatically.

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cjcox
Titus 3:5

Posts: 1396
Joined: 2002-09-19

#29272 Posted on: 05/18/2004 11:35 PM
We talked a bit about this at our LUG meeting. Is it a good thing to have unknowledgeable people on the internet? Windows certainly thinks so and advocates for it. But isn't this lack of knowledge the reason for many of the bad parts of the internet?? People don't update their machine, don't use a firewall, etc. Of course they could, but then the simplicity of the configuation starts to go away, leading us back to educating the masses ... in which case, it probably doesn't matter which OS you choose to run.

Do we really want something so easy that anybody can use it without training or any kind of certification? Reminds me of driving in India... know what I mean?

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Originally posted by eFrisky An alternative to Windows that appeals to the lesser human being, one who cannot accept the simplicity of double clicking an icon as opposed to typing....

Simplicity? I can't believe how many people still double-click in Windows. One extra mouse click is not simiplicity. One single mouse click is simiplicity. Been doing it for years, even forced Windows NT to do it. :rolleyes:

Examples of ignorant Windows users:
Resolution of 640x480 in 256 colors on a 30" monitor
Double clicking
Have no idea what the right mouse button can be used for
The Recyle bin is a place to store important files
They are using Windows 97 in Office 95
They call the Internet "AOL"
etc.....
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rmn
oh my, it's huge!

Posts: 5894
Joined: 2002-01-26

#29274 Posted on: 05/19/2004 01:25 AM

Originally posted by pointreyes I can't believe how many people still double-click in Windows. One extra mouse click is not simiplicity. One single mouse click is simiplicity.

When manipulating files, you need a way to distinguish between the two most common actions (select and launch). One click = select. Double-click = launch.

RMN
~~~

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pointreyes
Registered User

Posts: 343
Joined: 2002-07-29

#29275 Posted on: 05/19/2004 01:33 AM

Originally posted by rmn When manipulating files, you need a way to distinguish between the two most common actions (select and launch). One click = select. Double-click = launch.

RMN
~~~

Hover = select; single-click = launch. Works great once you get used to it.Diagram of Hardware Profile
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AssKoala
Anti-Zealot @ GATech

Posts: 3302
Joined: 2002-01-02

#29276 Posted on: 05/19/2004 01:50 AM
So, again there's another idiotic article with partially correct statements and those that are innanely stupid.

The author says that Windows doesn't have anything technically superior in the Operating System, only that its successful because of marketing etc.

So, a shoddy scheduler, lack of full support for ACPI, and many other aspects to the Linux Kernel that make the Linux Kernel look like an Undergrad project compared to the NT Kernel are apparently nothing.

Take an Operating Systems class or pick up an Operating System design book, when taught they sort of have to beat around the bush about the abismal techniques used within the Linux Kernel that kill performance in multi-tasking. Of course, its always funny to see books sort of "beat around the bush" when saying Linux doesn't do something well, since the community would then say the book is obviously funded by Microsoft and therefore null and void. Nothing can ever be wrong with Linux, it is perfection. Morons, and that mentality hurts the movement more than any technological problems.

That's not to say the Linux Kernel is a pile of trash, on the contrary its quite good at certain tasks, multitasking multiple CPU-heavy tasks just doesn't happen to be one of them. Running a single CPU-heavy task is perfectly fine though. The new scheduler does much to alleviate these problems, however it isn't quite perfection nor at the level of the NT Kernel. Of course, I bet many people reading this have no idea why its called an O(1) scheduler, I'll give you a hint, that doesn't mean its super ultra fast, that O(1) comes from a certain part of the scheduling process which takes the same amount of cycles to perform its task everytime, go ahead check the source code.

As for the actual "ease-of-use", what kills current *nix variants on the desktop is the fact that the GUI is slow (and unstable in some cases). The only Unix variant I've ever used that, to me, had a chance against MS was BeOS. I've never had the chance to try OS/2, but BeOS actually set me aback in terms of "ease-of-use". Of course, its stability is still questionable, I love that it doesn't correctly boot half the time however this may be due to the fact that the original implementation didn't have support for AthlonXP's and had to be patched. However, that is neither here nor there.

Before I finish my tirade, let me point something out:

[Quote]Examples of ignorant Windows users:
Resolution of 640x480 in 256 colors on a 30" monitor
Double clicking
Have no idea what the right mouse button can be used for
The Recyle bin is a place to store important files
They are using Windows 97 in Office 95
They call the Internet "AOL"[/Quote]

Ok, first off Double-clicking vs. Single clicking is pure preference. Second, the ability to do things with a Single Click versus a Double Click was around in Windows 98 and probably configurable even before that, I don't however have a Windows 95 or pre-NT4 installation to check that on. Maybe you should actually know what the hell you're talking about before posting such an assenine statement.

wow, 640x480 with 256 colors on a 30" monitor? That's the first time I've ever even heard that one. Maybe 800x600 or 1024x768 on a 21" or 17" monitor @ 60Hz with 16-bit color. That one's closer to reality.Me Webpage | If you always think like an expert, you'll always be a beginner. | "A handful of knowledgeable people is more effective than an army of fools" -Writing Secure Code, 2nd Ed.

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pointreyes
Registered User

Posts: 343
Joined: 2002-07-29

#29277 Posted on: 05/19/2004 01:58 AM

Originally posted by AssKoala Ok, first off Double-clicking vs. Single clicking is pure preference. Second, the ability to do things with a Single Click versus a Double Click was around in Windows 98 and probably configurable even before that, I don't however have a Windows 95 or pre-NT4 installation to check that on. Maybe you should actually know what the hell you're talking about before posting such an assenine statement.

wow, 640x480 with 256 colors on a 30" monitor? That's the first time I've ever even heard that one. Maybe 800x600 or 1024x768 on a 21" or 17" monitor @ 60Hz with 16-bit color. That one's closer to reality.

Geez, I was joking around and you make it into this?

You can force NT to accept single clicking by installing the version of IE that installs active desktop. After that is done, the single click (if so desired) will remain even after upgrading to newer versions of IE.Diagram of Hardware Profile
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pointreyes
Registered User

Posts: 343
Joined: 2002-07-29

#29278 Posted on: 05/19/2004 02:18 AM
Sorry for including double clicking under that of ignorant users. That was a foolish thing for me to say.Diagram of Hardware Profile
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LRSeriesIII
Aspiring Rocket Scientist

Posts: 1120
Joined: 2002-08-29

#29279 Posted on: 05/19/2004 09:33 AM

Originally posted by cjcox We talked a bit about this at our LUG meeting. Is it a good thing to have unknowledgeable people on the internet?

That seems like a somewhat elitist question. Who are we to decide who can and cannot get on the internet? I understand your comment about driving in India, but you have to remember that with driving, people can (and do) get killed and badly injured by the poor judgements and irresponsible actions of others. This is not the case online.

Uneducated users certainly can cause problems online, but those users could just as easily turn around and say that we are causing problems by insisting that they become educated instead of just making software more secure and usable.

Originally posted by cjcox Windows certainly thinks so and advocates for it.

I do not think Microsoft advocates that uneducated users should be able to get on the internet, they simply provide a product. Microsoft (like any other company) provides what they think will earn them the greatest profit, which usually means want people demand. People want to get online without having to learn too much about computers, so Microsoft makes their OS easy for novice users to get online with. This is not a statement of their position in some sort of debate, it is simply a market economy at work.

On that note, I think one of the things that may hold Linux back some (in addition to the attitude among many that AssKoala referred to whereby anything negative said about Linux is Microsoft propoganda) is that, for the most part, it is not developed as a product for a market economy. There are certainly companies which are now making money marketing and selling Linux, but Windows exists purely as a product for a market. While this is not always a bad thing for Linux, when you start talking about widescale adoption and ease of use, I think it becomes one. Microsoft keeps Windows close to what users want because they have to, if they stray too far from what users demand Windows loses its reason to exist (profitability). Linux does not have to turn a profit, that is not why it exists. As a result, ease of use for a large number of users is simply not as important of an issue.
->Computers
->Folding for team 3074

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EM
Aspiring Rocket Scientist

Posts: 4109
Joined: 2000-09-04

#29280 Posted on: 05/19/2004 09:56 AM
Some things I like about Windows are probably trivial and most likely can be done with Linux. ClearType for example...I like the way the type looks on my LCD monitor when I use ClearType. I haven't looked for an alternative for Linux. Game support...not even there in Linux. Most everything else is there for Linux, its just a matter of me learning how to do it, but when the majority of stuff my family uses a computer for (games for the kids) is NOT supported by Linux, it doesn't really matter how superior of an OS it MIGHT be since it is NOT qualified to do what I need it to do. When it can support the games I have OR there are viable game options for Linux (other than FPS games) I will consider it again. Until then, why go looking for something that might work better with enough time and effort when I have something that works perfectly adequate right now?Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.
[URL="http://www.heatware.com/u/4993"]Heat[/URL]

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daddyo
Milk it!

Posts: 308
Joined: 2004-04-27

#29281 Posted on: 05/20/2004 05:23 AM
Single-clicking: I used to use that all the time, but my PC started to be used by more than just me, so I removed it so as not to freak out the other users. It's not a concern atm, but I may try it again.

Linux: Maybe it's just me, but I have tried several distros (Solaris as well) and never got a perfect install--I mean it goes online, the sound card works and it doesn't install 500MB of "programming tools" and graphics programs that I will never use.