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Empire Resurrection Opinions

Long time automag owner....first time thread posting.

Just got back from Tunaball....had a great time. What I can say, it made me rethink my passion for mech markers. No matter what electro gun I shoot, no matter how smooth it feels, no matter how much fun you have using it...I still like the feel of an automag. That being said...I had a chance to look at the Resurrection. I don't wanna lie, I liked it. But, like most people , I search the internet to see what others have to say. What is your opinion of the new Empire Resurrection? Looking for honest feedback from anyone who has had hands on experience with it.
It will never be an Automag, but lets be honest. Simon knows what he is doing and this marker could finally make this Automag user be a true fan of an autococker.

It’s a good looking marker, but the price is outrageous. $550 for a mechanical marker is laughable. The barrel kit is a joke you get 5 inserts that go up by 5 so it goes 675,680,685 and so on, you’re always going to be slightly over or under. A good price on an ULE Mag with an X valve and level 10 is still about $150 less. Now maybe this is the best shooting mechanical marker ever made, but I believe that code was broken a long time ago. Now I haven’t had the chance to shoot it, but being a Kee action representative I believe this thing will drop in price a lot faster than even the sniper did.

It’s a good looking marker, but the price is outrageous. $550 for a mechanical marker is laughable. The barrel kit is a joke you get 5 inserts that go up by 5 so it goes 675,680,685 and so on, you’re always going to be slightly over or under. A good price on an ULE Mag with an X valve and level 10 is still about $150 less. Now maybe this is the best shooting mechanical marker ever made, but I believe that code was broken a long time ago. Now I haven’t had the chance to shoot it, but being a Kee action representative I believe this thing will drop in price a lot faster than even the sniper did.

I feel the opposite; I think the marker is ugly and the barrel kit is one of the few appealing aspects of the resurrection. I wouldn't mind the $550 price tag if it didn't LOOK cheap. I'm sure it performs very well, but the aesthetics aren't up to par with a high-end autococker. Also, I prefer full-body w/ a back block over mid or half blocks. To the OP: take my opinions on the resurrection with a grain of salt as I have no hands-on experience with one.

It’s a good looking marker, but the price is outrageous. $550 for a mechanical marker is laughable. The barrel kit is a joke you get 5 inserts that go up by 5 so it goes 675,680,685 and so on, you’re always going to be slightly over or under. A good price on an ULE Mag with an X valve and level 10 is still about $150 less.

Brand new RT Pro ULE from AGD is about the same price and doesnt come with a barrel kit. You can't compare used prices to new.

I was gonna get one but had a change of heart.I cannot confirm but been told made in Taiwan like the autococker sr I think.I got to shoot one at a local field just for a hopper full and it was smooth and shot well but to me the anno looks cheap like the axes and minis.I get enough over the pond junk from Walmart already soo there's no way I'm gonna drop 550 on a across the pond marker when I can get another mag and feel good about my purchase. There are a couple of new markers comming out soon enough made here in the USA.I may not get to totally buy American but gonna do my best when possible. I have went from fancy electros to mainly mags and autococker pumps.:-) if you do go through with the purchase of one ,I'm sure you will like it though.I've just gotten picky in my old age lol

It’s a good looking marker, but the price is outrageous. $550 for a mechanical marker is laughable. The barrel kit is a joke you get 5 inserts that go up by 5 so it goes 675,680,685 and so on, you’re always going to be slightly over or under. A good price on an ULE Mag with an X valve and level 10 is still about $150 less. Now maybe this is the best shooting mechanical marker ever made, but I believe that code was broken a long time ago. Now I haven’t had the chance to shoot it, but being a Kee action representative I believe this thing will drop in price a lot faster than even the sniper did.

KEE Action Rep ? I bet they would be real interested in your assessment of their products your supposed to be pushing. The Sniper prices never dropped over here on the east coast as we could not keep them in stock. It wasn't until this year that we finally have one sitting in the shop for people to actually hold and we have sold two this year. The barrel kit is the same barrel kit that Infamous used on their Axe's last season, and they had a good year last year, so I would hardly call them a joke. If you had to drop the price on your Sniper to push it out the door, then maybe you should consider a new career path.

As for the Resurrection, I have been a die hard Mag fan for years and still like them ( kind of pissed I missed the ULE Mini mag sale, but meh) but the Cocker is quite nice. I got to play with one last week, one of the guys at the field had one and let me borrow it for a quick game. The trigger is really smooth and almost as nice as a CCM frame as it was almost impossible to short stroke it ( I say almost only due to someone someday might, but I didn't) I chrono'd it at 265, ran a .680 insert and had no chops or SS the entire game. It was smooth and quiet and very light compared to the older bodied Cockers of the past. Is it worth 550.00, to some, not to all, but I can recall when some Cockers of the past we're double that and offered less, so only you can decide if you can justify the price. I will have one eventually.

I'm a big autococker fan as well. And as much I wanted to hate it, I can't. They are solid shooting markers. They aren't the most aesthetically pleasing (that's just me), but they do function as promised.

edit - adding on to that... my only reservation with the marker is the non-universal parts. I would have preferred it if they made it 100% compatible with other cockers, but that's not a big issue with their target demographic.

But seriously, I like the way they look, and I like they way they function. Some don't, some do. That's just the way it is.
I can see where you're trying to go with your comment, but we've all been there and done that (the versus discussion). It always ends the same way... "to each their own".

KEE Action Rep ? I bet they would be real interested in your assessment of their products your supposed to be pushing. The Sniper prices never dropped over here on the east coast as we could not keep them in stock. It wasn't until this year that we finally have one sitting in the shop for people to actually hold and we have sold two this year. The barrel kit is the same barrel kit that Infamous used on their Axe's last season, and they had a good year last year, so I would hardly call them a joke. If you had to drop the price on your Sniper to push it out the door, then maybe you should consider a new career path.

My bad I didn't mean to offend anyone with my opinion. I hope you understand that it is just my opinion and I wasn't trying to convert you to my new anti Resurrection autococker religion. I love capitalism, But my main goal is to grow the sport. My opinion again, but If I can pay my bills and keep the doors open with a $50 mark up I'm doing something right. The guy asking for 200 more then cost will be the one that should be considering a new career path. I find it funny that you bring up how Imfamous used the same barrel kit last year but forget to mention that it wasn't good enough for the 2013 season.

My bad I didn't mean to offend anyone with my opinion. I hope you understand that it is just my opinion and I wasn't trying to convert you to my new anti Resurrection autococker religion. I love capitalism, But my main goal is to grow the sport. My opinion again, but If I can pay my bills and keep the doors open with a $50 mark up I'm doing something right. The guy asking for 200 more then cost will be the one that should be considering a new career path. I find it funny that you bring up how Imfamous used the same barrel kit last year but forget to mention that it wasn't good enough for the 2013 season.

Actually, we sell them at retail alone or discount with a package deal. Yeah, I find it funny too that a Kee Rep didn't know the Empire poster boys switched set-ups this year from the Axe to the Vanquish, which comes with the new Freak kit. Why you may ask ? So they can sell more newer/higher priced products to all the legions of fanboys that follow Kee/Empire.

So they can sell more newer/higher priced products to all the legions of fanboys that follow Kee/Empire.

Dontcha love how it works. Doesn't matter if your product is better or worse when in in sales. Its the marketing that matters. Get your product seen in the hands of " the pro's" and the sales will come.

As for a autococker. When I finally buy one. I want either a 96 or 97 with all the upgrades of that era. Or a late 90s STO. If I'm gonna carry one I want a true cutting edge of its time that I grew up playing with and against cocker. Not some flashy semi clone of a past relic.

But seriously, I like the way they look, and I like they way they function. Some don't, some do. That's just the way it is.
I can see where you're trying to go with your comment, but we've all been there and done that (the versus discussion). It always ends the same way... "to each their own".

It's not in the context of a "versus" discussion, but more a simple observation about aesthetics.

It really is just hard to mesh aesthetics with a gun that basically has its private parts dangling out the front in the breeze for all to see.

Getting beyond that, I still don't see what's wrong with the milling or anno color or anything. It's a fairly modern styling, right down to the half-block. The only reason I can see for keeping the full back body style is to allow for a sight rail or something on top. (Or something like the FX Cocker Pump body. Apparently some people loved the looks of that one. *cough*)

Perhaps OP should have asked for facts instead of opinions...

The gun itself appears to have best- or near-best-in-class components with a few exclusive extras and thoughtfulness tossed in. I really think those will be the deciding factor and not aesthetics or manufacturing origin.

I guess I should have asked for opinions on performance as opposed to just opinions. It seems like a great deal of the paintball world (sometimes myself included) will focus on apperance instead of function. If I were to adjust the original question....it would probably read more like... Looking for on hand users of the new Empire Resurrection. Wanting to know if you feel it will be a good reliable marker. Wanting to know if it will be hard to tune, tinker with, or be as finicky as autocockers of the past. I have owned only one other autococker in the past 15 plus years and told myself I would never do it again. The fact that automags are usually fixed by replacing an oring was way too impressionable on me while I watched others not be able to play all day while "fixing" their guns. Please give any feedback you feel would sway my opinion of the new Empire (aside from apperance. afterall, it is not looks that allows you to play on the field all day). Thanks

It's not in the context of a "versus" discussion, but more a simple observation about aesthetics.

It really is just hard to mesh aesthetics with a gun that basically has its private parts dangling out the front in the breeze for all to see.

Getting beyond that, I still don't see what's wrong with the milling or anno color or anything. It's a fairly modern styling, right down to the half-block. The only reason I can see for keeping the full back body style is to allow for a sight rail or something on top. (Or something like the FX Cocker Pump body. Apparently some people loved the looks of that one. *cough*)

The same could be said about motorcycles... Anyways, like I said... "to each their own". There's no point going down this road. You can't argue with someone's sense of beauty/style, because it's not a science. If someone likes it, then that's all that matters. You can either accept it for what it is, or shake your head and look down on them.

I know that this is obviously not the forum to be trying to pump up said marker. AO has somewhat of a mob mentality when it comes to these things, so I'm not going to get into that. It'd be a futile effort on my part to try to have an unbiased discussion here.

Originally Posted by Rosenberg

I guess I should have asked for opinions on performance as opposed to just opinions.

Wanting to know if you feel it will be a good reliable marker. Wanting to know if it will be hard to tune, tinker with, or be as finicky as autocockers of the past.

I've shot one. They are nice. Like I said in my original post, I wanted to hate it, but I can't. They shoot well. The trigger is smooth and very hard to short stroke. On the flip side, your fears are valid. It will go out of time like any other cocker if you mess with the settings. It's still a cocker.

The same could be said about motorcycles... Anyways, like I said... "to each their own". There's no point going down this road. You can't argue with someone's sense of beauty/style, because it's not a science. If someone likes it, then that's all that matters. You can either accept it for what it is, or shake your head and look down on them.

I know that this is obviously not the forum to be trying to pump up said marker. AO has somewhat of a mob mentality when it comes to these things, so I'm not going to get into that. It'd be a futile effort on my part to try to have an unbiased discussion here.

The same can be said about motorcycles, cars, lawnmowers, power tools... basically anything men typically try to be compensatory about. But right now, we're talking about cockers.

I'm not trying to "pump" the marker either way; I'm just trying to be rational.

The parts that always annoyed me on my old autococker were the 3-way o-rings, which were the first to leak and were a pain to get at. (In fact, the second time around, I decided it wasn't worth my time and sold it.) Here it looks like you can slide the assembly out the back (?). You can also service the ram without removing it, and it has the wrench flats where appropriate. Those were some of the niceties that I mentioned.

I do find it curious that amidst all this talk of aesthetics and manufacturing origin that very little has been said about the valve. If it shares the same design as the Sniper, that means it's a Spyder valve, and the valve has to come out the back and take an exciting ride over the IVG threads.

I guess I should have asked for opinions on performance as opposed to just opinions. It seems like a great deal of the paintball world (sometimes myself included) will focus on apperance instead of function. If I were to adjust the original question....it would probably read more like... Looking for on hand users of the new Empire Resurrection. Wanting to know if you feel it will be a good reliable marker. Wanting to know if it will be hard to tune, tinker with, or be as finicky as autocockers of the past. I have owned only one other autococker in the past 15 plus years and told myself I would never do it again. The fact that automags are usually fixed by replacing an oring was way too impressionable on me while I watched others not be able to play all day while "fixing" their guns. Please give any feedback you feel would sway my opinion of the new Empire (aside from apperance. afterall, it is not looks that allows you to play on the field all day). Thanks

If you buy one Toof, I am going to borrow it, a lot. I got to shoot the one that a player was using at Tuna Ball. A couple notes on performance: the trigger was nice and crisp, not too light and not too stiff. As much as I tried, it was really hard to short stroke it. One of the design implements I noted right off the bat was a lack of a cocking rod coming out the back. I meant to ask Simon about it but did not have a chance. Overall I sense that the reliability will be good, just as long as you don't mess with the timing

Now as a personal opinion, I loved cockers for their ability to be upgraded and mod'd to ones personal taste. There was a lot of aluminum on the bodies and that made a great canvas for millwork and personal touches. One of the things I liked about the cockers was all the moving parts. I thought it was cool having the back block cycling and all the sound it made.

Mag's are the coolest, but cockers are cool too. Wait until people start selling their used resurrections or the price comes down...even though it sounds like you are ready to order one.

My friend just told me about this thread and I figured I would throw in my 2 cents because I have some strong opinions about this gun. Now first let me say, I have not even held one yet. But with that said, I not sure if I want to. 550 for a Mech gun, an Autococker? Really? Who thought up this price point? A gun that although has a great reputation for air efficiency, nice appearance and accuracy but also notorious for having problems and being a gun that the average person has a hard time working on. Several people mentioned the performance but 550 I will say it again, does it come with a guarantee not to miss? I love my Mags, and I love my mech mag with the ULE body and X-valve but I don't think I would pay that for a mag new. I say if you really want one wait a year and they will be down a couple hundred bucks. I would have also liked some new colors like the old cockers not just this gray color. Lastly I too am not too excited about a barrel kit that goes up in sizes of .005, might work some times depending on the paint but it also might be too big or small depending on the paint.

As the person responsible for bringing an autococker back to the market, it's interesting to see people upset about a mech gun costing $550. Are you under the impression that it should be cheaper than an electro just because it's mech?

What if the mech gun has more parts (or in this case WAY, WAY, WAY more parts), costs more to make, and costs more to assemble and build than electro guns that are $1,299.95?

Bah, it's mech so it should be cheaper, right

Oh and fancy milling... to compare it to guns of old... but it's not selling at the prices of fancy guns of old... I remember when JUST the body of the KAPP flame cocker was going for more than this gun costs!

If you are just looking at this gun from a price point then you are missing the whole point of the "Resurrection", that's ok though because there are many other options for you to choose from. This gun certainly isn't for everybody, and it was never intended to be.

How many cockers can you buy new right now? One. How many electro options? Too many.

There is something that is just fun about autocockers. If you are the kind of person that knows and understands that and is willing to put up with their quirks then the Resurrection is for you.

p.s. I am quite entertained to see the old 'Mag V's 'Cocker debate raging again. It's been more than 10 years since we really saw that and it's fun to see it even be possible again

Grab a set of calipers and move them .005 apart to get a feel for how small of an increment that is.

This requires a separate reply.

Thank you.

And then go and check the sizes and tolerances of many barrel bores and let me know the numbers you find...

And then go and check the inconsistencies in paint sizes and let's compare that to the 0.005 in bore size steps...

Oh and as for the size variation, I have seen paint that was loose in a .670 and tight in a .695 in the last year. It all depends on the brand and country of manufacture. Some Russian and Asian paint right now is HUGE, players at HB bought out CP's entire barrel stock of .696 barrels.

Paintball is a global game played in many different conditions with many factors that make the paint vary. With a closed bolt gun being able to underbore the paint is important so prevent roll outs. Hence the huge and extremely good barrel kit that comes with the Resurrection.

As for the Pro teams switching away from the same barrel system?

Funnily enough they just posted a recent picture of Drew Templeton from Infamous on Facebook today shooting a Vanquish. He is one of the most technically capable pro players. If not the most technically capable pro player. Guess which barrel he is using? Yep the original one I made for him which is identical to the kit that comes with the Resurrection.

The move to the freak system, which quite simply is inferior in many ways, was purely due to sales and marketing decisions. I fought against it from a functionality point of view. I lost. I guess that kind of thing is part of the reason I chose to move on.

I believe the barrel kit with the Resurrection is one of the best kits you can get in paintball right now. It kills me that KEE wouldn't sell it on it's own.

I am a machine guy, as a mechanical engineer I am amazed at machines. I love to watch a machine as it produces what ever it makes. I have sat and watched as an Italian machine had a single strand of 18k gold wire go in one end and woven gold rope chain came out the bottom. . . .simply amazing!

The Autococker is a machine, a contraption if you will. They bang and clack and then a little paintball leaves one end - I love' em! I may even have to get one!

At the moment I do get my Autococker "FIX" from the mid-blocked E2 blade Karnivor that I built for myself a few years ago, I only wish that I used it more but I say that about ALL my paintball guns (the by-product of being a gun whore).

manike is 100% correct in that a mechanical gun does not = cheaper. An Electro has many less moving parts and is much cheaper to produce. the PC board in an electro cost only a couple dollars to produce in the quantities that these companies are buying.

To be fair I don't think it is a matter of being upset at the cost. It's just that if you spend a lot of time on used gun forums and ebay you see what were once top end mech cockers (shocktech, eclipse, kapp, and p&p), in good to excellent condition, going for less than what a new Resurrection retails for. I am sure there are good reasons for this, you listed quite a few that should easily dismiss this remark, but it is quite simply a subtle form of sticker shock. I could not imagine a new "stock" cocker going for more than a hot-rodded used one because something about that reality does not seem justifiable in my own mind, and similarly from this thread the minds of others. Would I pay 550 for a resurrection...well if I had that money then yes because the marker is badace, but probably not before I spent a lot of time looking for an old school used one in great shape, with all the bells and whistles, going for considerably less or even slightly more.

My only question is why not a resurrection automag? That would be tie-ties.

Also, we have to remember cocker fans like to hear "clack clack clack" instead of chuffs and pings. That's part of the cocker aesthetic. Halfblocks dampen that a lot (no back block), which I find sad, but I have to agree that a full bolt doesn't add anything when you have rod guides.

Fancy bodies aren't what they used to be in mass production. Now, they are just time and tool wear beyond the initial design effort. Still, fancy means extra and is certainly worth something when compared to simple stick of extruded aluminum [WGP].

I like to watch cockers playing, but I can never convince myself to go there. I've owned working cockers, but they never last a week before being pumped, and I have never actually used one on a field, which is pretty far down the list now that I think about it.

At least mags and cockers have an aesthetic. I just realized that I segregate all of my other electros into simple "spoolie" and "poppet" categories. My favorite non-mag electro is another one of Simon's projects in part, which is a Lasoya Promaster. You just can't please all of the people all of the time.

I could not imagine a new "stock" cocker going for more than a hot-rodded used one because something about that reality does not seem justifiable in my own mind, and similarly from this thread the minds of others.

And yet the new stock one, has more than the old hot rodded ones did when they cost $1500...

Originally Posted by debruynda

My only question is why not a resurrection automag? That would be tie-ties.