I honestly believe that the policy is a pain in the ass to deal with and frankly side with the general in his remarks. You cannot run an operation that is duty bound to maintain discipline and order and be politically correct at the same time. The solution to allowing openly gay people in is to ensure every person has privacy regardless of sex. That means individual rooms and bathrooms/stalls. A basic unisex operation. As you can imagine this would be a very costly thing to enact in the current infrastructure. This is the same reason why women don't serve ( or at least didn't that I'm aware of ) on submarines. The cost and space allocations required to accommodate this are impossible to overcome and stay under budget. It's bad enough to have to deal with officers vs enlisted and men vs women, but to throw gays and lesbians into the equation you've now multiplied your problem exponentially.

It should be just like Battlestar Galactica and Starship Troopers so we can sleep and shower with the chicks.

I agree. Warner is an idiot if he thinks that that acceptance is growing in the Military. One of the major principles of efficiency in the Army is uniformity. Having to deal with second and third? sexes just fucks everything up, not to mention that 99% of deployed females demonstrate stereotypical female traits that really have nothing to do with "male mentalities". The vast majority of them just do not have the absence of conscience that is required in order to do the job - which has become more evident now with the placement of MP's (co-ed MOS) on the "front lines" although they are catagorized as "support elements". Some of the other characteristics I frequently see are insufficient strength (can't change a Humvee tire, fatigued from carrying weapons, failure to overcome a male enemy) and a general lack of agressiveness or tactical sense. They just aren't suited for fighting. Those that do possess the proper mindset get prosecuted for building pyramids.

The way things are being railroaded reminds me a lot of Little League Baseball/Football/Soccer. Parents/Politicians are too wrapped up in letting every kid get time on the field and forget that the point of the game is to hurry up and kill everyone that needs to be dead so we can go home.

Yep yep. It's not that i'm against them having the chance to participate. But they need to stop lowering the standards to think that everyone is equal for the task at hand. I say co-ed every god damned thing and have one flat test for each task necessary. Stop persecuting people that have no issue with it and pass the test.

Question, as a professional soldier would you have an issue with anyone that is just as physically and mentally capable on the frontline regardless of sex/orientation/race/etc. IE: would you serve say side by side with an openly gay guy? I don't think I would have an issue no more than if it was a female TBH. It's about being professional is all.

Question, as a professional soldier would you have an issue with anyone that is just as physically and mentally capable on the frontline regardless of sex/orientation/race/etc. IE: would you serve say side by side with an openly gay guy? I don't think I would have an issue no more than if it was a female TBH. It's about being professional is all.

Yes. Its a mental distraction because they are different. Not sure its the right word, but in the case of a homosexual its would be "hostile" feelings. In the case of a female, its elevated concern, like its my responsibility as a male to go out of my way to protect them, which can impact me performing my primary duty. Seeing females getting injured or killed has a different psycological effect on a lot of people, which is why I didn't even associate with any of the females on post. I didn't want to know them at all.

There is a time and a place for it, just as there is a time and place for getting the job done. Its obviously important to respect the chain of comand in the field, but professionalism frequently takes a back seat when things start happening around you and you tend to worry less about insulting people while you are "busy". I say be professional back on post or in garrison when you have the time and safety to worry about it.

well, the other option that I had talked about with folks when I was in was about seperation not so much in women can't be frontline, but more from the standpoint this battalion is all female etc... Not being a ground troop I don't know how feasable that scenario would be. I understand PP's concern which is one most folks have regardless. This is one reason for instance the German's gassed the jews instead of having troops shoot them in cold blood. Right or wrong, it does something to the party to be forced to participate.

I don't care what anyone says, women and men do not and NEVER WILL possess the same physical skills or mindset. We are different for a variety of reasons...all valid. I love being female, that doesn't mean I don't like to play with jeep toys or video games because I do but neither of those things will get someone killed in combat. If you are gay...who's business is it anyway?? Unless you make it an issue, then it is your problem.

I get so pissed off when I read about some school or other being sued because they won't let a girl play on the boy's team. I don't see any boys suing because they can't give birth. Who the hell cares what team they play on....if they are that good, then be content with being the best on the girls team!!! I love guinness, guns and good mudding....but I love being a girl. I don't need to prove anything to anyone. Rant over

Several years ago, I saw an excellent piece on C-SPAN about gays in the military - specifically on a submarine.

Some senators congressmen who were on committees relevant to the matter were aboard a 688 boat (it was filmed). They did a quick tour and went to the enlisted berthing are, where the racks (3 deep and several high) were shown. They then had three enlisted squids take places in the racks, one wearing a grey t-shirt to identify him as a gay sailor (for purposes of the demonstration, it was emphasized). They then took various positions in the racks, and the sailors would then climb in and out of the racks, alternating positions, etc... They would interview them during the exercise (so, how do you feel being straddled by a gay sailor in his skivvies?).

It was both ridiculous and revealing at the same time - basically that putting and keeping gays and straight in roles where they have to be in such close quarters is a definite morale issue.

It's distracting enough with women, but they've found ways to make that work with specific roles. Openly gay might work in some situations, but not in most. It's not about fairness or other politically correct BS. It's about effectiveness - they don't need the distraction.

specifically in relation to the "front lines" this shit will lead us into a mess..

people who havent been there or in the service fail to realize the bonds that grow between troopers thats based on the trust that relys solely on the "i know he will and can do his job, and i know how he will react"..its the whole Nic Cage "Con Air" statement.."theres only 2 men in this world i trust and only one of em is standing here"..

question pertaining to the issue at hand is what gay service member number 1 is gonna do when his or her "bunk buddy (gay serviceman nember 2)" gets shot thru the head while engaging the enemy in combat.

in light of that question...i just spent a weekend in Savannah GA. for St Patties Day bouncing a bar managed by a openly gay guy (it should be noted Dave is a 220lbs, works out every day and could kick alot of peoples ass')..unfortunatly he also hired his butt buddy to help bartend for the festival...needless to say when shit got outta hand and we more or less had a bar wide brawl going on and his lil guy got knocked out cold dave was on his hands and needs cradling pussy boys head rather than helping me and the crew deal with the situation which basically consists of 99 pissed off customers trying to take over a bar being secured by 7 service buddies of mine...sucks to be but the army cant take the chance of adding that kind of emotional stress to an already stress charged situation that requires all hands available performing efficiently and effectively..fully realizing the consequenses of the action they are in..same shit can be said for the ladies. i am overly protective of the females in my life..i feel i was designed that way..i could never function in combat with a woman next to me...i would feel it my job to ensure her survivial..call it protective nature..rather than fighting a war i would be running my own PSP detail..which would lead to the death of another soldier..it has been said like this "a distracted soldier is a dead soldiers buddy"

now can we get this political bull shit behind us and go kill some terrorists please.

specifically in relation to the "front lines" this shit will lead us into a mess..

people who havent been there or in the service fail to realize the bonds that grow between troopers thats based on the trust that relys solely on the "i know he will and can do his job, and i know how he will react"..its the whole Nic Cage "Con Air" statement.."theres only 2 men in this world i trust and only one of em is standing here"..

question pertaining to the issue at hand is what gay service member number 1 is gonna do when his or her "bunk buddy (gay serviceman nember 2)" gets shot thru the head while engaging the enemy in combat.

in light of that question...i just spent a weekend in Savannah GA. for St Patties Day bouncing a bar managed by a openly gay guy (it should be noted Dave is a 220lbs, works out every day and could kick alot of peoples ass')..unfortunatly he also hired his butt buddy to help bartend for the festival...needless to say when shit got outta hand and we more or less had a bar wide brawl going on and his lil guy got knocked out cold dave was on his hands and needs cradling pussy boys head rather than helping me and the crew deal with the situation which basically consists of 99 pissed off customers trying to take over a bar being secured by 7 service buddies of mine...sucks to be but the army cant take the chance of adding that kind of emotional stress to an already stress charged situation that requires all hands available performing efficiently and effectively..fully realizing the consequenses of the action they are in..same shit can be said for the ladies. i am overly protective of the females in my life..i feel i was designed that way..i could never function in combat with a woman next to me...i would feel it my job to ensure her survivial..call it protective nature..rather than fighting a war i would be running my own PSP detail..which would lead to the death of another soldier..it has been said like this "a distracted soldier is a dead soldiers buddy"

now can we get this political bull shit behind us and go kill some terrorists please.

RLTW,
Grifter

well said .
not sure what my opinion here is.
im against a citizen not have ing the same rights base on sex or. and am convinced that most of the fight to keep thease other americans from haveing all the same rights is religon trying to impose its will on the world and dictate what everyone veiw of morality is,or that of plane stupidity and ignorant hate.
but your talk of combat sit. does make me think more about it .
still dont think they should not be alowed to be in though. women are after all

I get so pissed off when I read about some school or other being sued because they won't let a girl play on the boy's team. I don't see any boys suing because they can't give birth. Who the hell cares what team they play on....if they are that good, then be content with being the best on the girls team!!! I love guinness, guns and good mudding....but I love being a girl. I don't need to prove anything to anyone. Rant over

Exactly, just because we are created with equal rights doesn't mean we weren't created different. Boys teams are boys teams, girls teams are girls teams, not for abilities but for the sake of the team and everything that goes with it. I have seen were a guy wanted to play volleyball and wasn't allowed because it is obviously a girls sport, he sued for the right to play and lost.

I also completely understand the whole being protective of women thing, some of us are still gentlemen and believe in watching out for women. Not that they can't always take care of themselves, but I was tought to be courteous and chivalrous. If a women was in a dangerous situation men are programmed to step in and protect her. I am glad I don't have daughters because they would be lacking in discipline. I have 3 boys that I can discipline, if they need yelled at or kicked in the behind I can do it.