I asked if there were any circumstances under which he would change his mind.

“No. None,” he answered.

Now I’m wondering whether Franken knew he had something disqualifying in his past: something like the allegation that surfaced Thursday, when Los Angeles radio host Leeann Tweeden charged that Franken forced her to kiss him, mistreated her when she rebuffed him, and took a photo with his hands grabbing her breasts when she was asleep—all when they were both touring Iraq and Afghanistan with the USO, entertaining American military personnel, back in 2006.

Current Issue

I have no evidence that that incident drove Franken’s answer to me. But with this new allegation, it seems like good judgment on his part, anyway. I was disappointed when Franken ruled out a presidential run. But I’m much more disappointed now.

Against the backdrop of the sexual-abuse scandal that threatens to drive Alabama GOP Senate candidate Roy Moore—accused of kissing or groping nine teenage girls—out of the race, I have to recognize a huge double standard in my reactions. I believed Moore’s accusers right away—especially given all the detail in their accounts, and all the corroborating witnesses. I confess: I spent at least 30 minutes looking for proof that Franken didn’t do what he’s accused of. (Then he essentially admitted he did.)

I reached out to women who are close to Franken, and at least two say they don’t know enough to confirm or deny it, but they’re devastated. I don’t know him well enough to be devastated, but I’m enormously sad. Women have spent the last 13 months, in the wake of the 16 or so sexual abuse allegations against Donald Trump, which weren’t enough to keep him from being president, obsessing over and reevaluating their mistreatment by men, from their childhood well into adulthood, and telling those painful, awful stories. Publicly and privately. Now we have one about a man who’s a self-described feminist, a champion of Planned Parenthood and Emily’s List, accused of the same thing. This one really hurts.

It’s worth noting that Franken had already gotten in some political trouble for his sexual hijinks back when he was part of the undeniably bro-y, often sexist world of comedy. On the eve of Minnesota’s Democratic nominating convention back in the summer of 2008, a magazine reported that in 1994 Franken made a joke about rape in late-night brainstorming for a Saturday Night Live sketch that never aired. At the convention, he made a speech that saved his candidacy.

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“It kills me that things I said and wrote sent a message to some of my friends in this room and people in this state that they can’t count on me to be a champion for women, a champion for all Minnesotans, in this campaign and in the Senate,” he told the crowd. “I’m sorry for that.” Minnesotans forgave him and made him their senator. But now Franken is admitting he went beyond words, to degrading deeds.

Republicans are rushing to equate Franken and Moore, which is ridiculous. Franken is accused by one woman—at this point—not nine, like Moore (or 16, by the way, like the president). His accuser was well into adulthood, not a teenager, like Moore’s victims. Franken quickly apologized after the charge was made on Thursday; Moore denies all of it.

I should note that Franken’s first apology was a little bit desultory, a bit like Louis CK’s. But he followed it with a multi-paragraph, seemingly agonizing apology:

The first thing I want to do is apologize: to Leeann, to everyone else who was part of that tour, to everyone who has worked for me, to everyone I represent, and to everyone who counts on me to be an ally and supporter and champion of women. There’s more I want to say, but the first and most important thing—and if it’s the only thing you care to hear, that’s fine—is: I’m sorry.

I respect women. I don’t respect men who don’t. And the fact that my own actions have given people a good reason to doubt that makes me feel ashamed.

But I want to say something else, too. Over the last few months, all of us—including and especially men who respect women—have been forced to take a good, hard look at our own actions and think (perhaps, shamefully, for the first time) about how those actions have affected women.

For instance, that picture. I don’t know what was in my head when I took that picture, and it doesn’t matter. There’s no excuse. I look at it now and I feel disgusted with myself. It isn’t funny. It’s completely inappropriate. It’s obvious how Leeann would feel violated by that picture. And, what’s more, I can see how millions of other women would feel violated by it—women who have had similar experiences in their own lives, women who fear having those experiences, women who look up to me, women who have counted on me.

Coming from the world of comedy, I’ve told and written a lot of jokes that I once thought were funny but later came to realize were just plain offensive. But the intentions behind my actions aren’t the point at all. It’s the impact these jokes had on others that matters. And I’m sorry it’s taken me so long to come to terms with that.

While I don’t remember the rehearsal for the skit as Leeann does, I understand why we need to listen to and believe women’s experiences.

I am asking that an ethics investigation be undertaken, and I will gladly cooperate.

And the truth is, what people think of me in light of this is far less important than what people think of women who continue to come forward to tell their stories. They deserve to be heard, and believed. And they deserve to know that I am their ally and supporter. I have let them down and am committed to making it up to them.”

That’s an excellent apology. And an ethics-committee investigation into his actions is an excellent idea. For what it’s worth, news anchor Leeann Tweeden says she accepts his apology and doesn’t think he should have to resign.

I’m hearing some Democrats, trying to be proactive, suggest that Franken resign—since Minnesota’s Democratic Governor Mark Dayton can appoint a Democratic replacement—so he doesn’t distract from the debate over Moore as well as the predator in chief. That’s a terrible idea. Franken has been an excellent senator; you can’t just trade him for a player to be named later. It’s one allegation, albeit an ugly one, and he’s apologized for it. If more come out, we can reexamine this question. But Republicans have persevered through much worse than this. Democrats should not expect that Franken’s resigning will curry favor or fairness from the party that excuses David Vitter or Donald Trump.

Again, though, if more allegations emerge, my answer will change. I admit that I hope they don’t. Franken has been an excellent senator, a committed feminist, a brilliant Trump foil, and the rare Democrat with a sense for the dramatic and the entertaining. We shouldn’t disown him just because Republicans want a scapegoat. We will have to, though, if these stories multiply, as they have with Trump and Moore. My fingers are crossed that they will not.

Joan WalshTwitterJoan Walsh, The Nation’s national-affairs correspondent, is the author of What’s the Matter With White People? Finding Our Way in the Next America.

"If memory serves me, Greek Comedy was only funny to the observers, not to those playing their parts. In any case it seemed to be ridicule of existing policies, especially in government. Now I do not think that any of this is funny, especially on the person or persons being made fun of. However, I am sure that after all of this runs it course there will be a lot of empty seats in a lot of places. Question: Who will fill them? Who, after casting their stones, will be able to say that the punishment will actually suit the crime, and even in the face of criticism; why has it taken so long to bring it to light? I understand the arguments, but I also know that those close to the 'victims' were in positions to make serious waves that no political barricade or custom of ignorance could have stood up against. Just saying."

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William Cashsays:

November 20, 2017 at 8:29 pm

Franken never admitted to the charges. You are wrong. Now I want you to explain how Roger Stone knew about this ahead of time. He tweeted about it the night before Tweeden came out. She had on a flak jacket. It would have been impossible to grope her.
She is a right wing radio jock, appears on Hannity and obviously knows Stone, the champion of dirty tricks. She is relishing this, enthusiastically telling her story, seeking all the publicity she can get. She shows all the signs of lying, closing her eyes for more than 3 seconds, blinking rapidly, nodding her head no. Contast that to Leigh Corfman who doesn't do any of those things. She is obviously telling the truth. I know the democrats and liberals are terrified of challenging a woman but I want to know Stone's role in this. I believe they created this story. Stone saw that picture and it was like a gift from heaven.

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Nancy Stellasays:

November 20, 2017 at 2:11 pm

We believe the Moore abuse of power because of the good investigation and corroboration the journalists found when they reported it. All of them were believable because of the details provided. It was good work.
This does not require us to automatically believe the women in a reported abuse. We should lean toward believing but demand additional information, if necessary. Given that the Republican clan tries to create chaos for the Dems with lies and innuendos (sometimes directed at their own clan). We cannot allow our propensity for fairness to buckle to those tactics. Let's not forget the Swift boating of Kerry and lies about Clinton. There are so many examples where they have worked because fairness is both a strength and weakness of the Dems. No, the comparison between what Moore and Franken are false equivalencies. Your gut is providing the inconsistences between Franken's current behavior and Moore's. As women, we are capable of sensing something awry.
I believe it is quite possible that Franken's behavior, although disappointing and egregious, is intentionally being planted by the repubs and expected to create these struggling responses by Dems, who so desperately want to be open and fair. We can question the stories of women - and their motivations. We can demand more facts but equating this to the Moore scandal is wrong. Not all politicians are a Moore. Thank God for that.

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Clark M Shanahansays:

November 20, 2017 at 12:14 pm

Deplorable,
Seeing people going through overwrought rationalizations in order to protect their tribe and a fairly centrist average chump who voted for Monsanto's anti-GMO-labeling legislation and who had swallowed hook. line, and sinker the Yellow-Cake fabrication.
Al's new state fair buttocks grab charges (likely true) admittedly don't reach the level of predatory behavior to call for his banning from the Mall of America, nor, the florid acts of Antony Weiner.. but please spare us all the pitiful rationalizations.
My fellow Dems embarrass me. The Iraq War, the Patriot Act, charter schools, the blocking of Single Payer and Carbon Tax off the platform, and the mental gymnastics to support a disciple of the war criminal, Henry Kissinger, have sunk us to such a low level that it's getting physically impossible to continue looking down on the Repugs.

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Elizabeth Gioumousissays:

November 20, 2017 at 6:16 am

I have lots of thoughts about this, but for now here's just one:

About hypocrisy - Democrats have been perfectly happy to condemn Weinstein, even though he donates to Dem causes, because what he did was truly awful. Some Dems are defending Franken, because what he did, if this is all of it, was pretty gross but not like assault or other criminal behavior. So I'd say no hypocrisy there. The reaction to Bill Clinton's accusers, years ago, however, was truly hypocritical, with Democratic women calling them "bimbos". That, I think, did real damage to the cause of women's rights.

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Clark M Shanahansays:

November 20, 2017 at 12:43 pm

Women's Rights supporters in this country fail terribly MLK's "Yellow Brothers" freedom point.
NOW, Emily's List, Human Rights Campaign, and Planned Parenthood displayed total ignorance of our "lower castes" when they endorsed a war monger and Wall Street Toadie before the rigged Dem Primaries even started.

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Diane Smithsays:

November 19, 2017 at 9:03 pm

The difference I see is between boorishness and illegal behavior.

Assault, rape, and sexually attacking underage young women (and men) are crimes and should be punished as such.

On the other hand, pretending to grope a woman while she is asleep is not illegal, as boorish and childish and aggressive as it may seem now. Personally, I view it as an an expression of the good-old-boy humor present on TV and in movies to this day that makes stupid adolescent behavior socially acceptable. Funny even.

From what I have read, Weinstein was guilty of both kinds of sexual behavior -- illegal and downright boorish, although both are still all about power. Same with Bill Clinton and, apparently, Kevin Spacey.

As much as I dislike him and his humor, I have to say Louis CK was simply a boor -- a pathetic one at that.

As for Franken, he was once part of a comedy culture that appealed to adolescent boys, thinking that pretending to grope women was funny. Not funny, Al, but I think he knows that now.

We shouldn't reward sexual predators in public or private life. They should be jailed – all of them -- regardless of their positions of power. Those whose greatest crime was bad taste and bad judgment should at least be given a chance to learn from it and move on.

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Naomi Bloomsays:

November 19, 2017 at 2:14 pm

First, focus on this reality..."Republicans are rushing to equate Franken and Moore, which is ridiculous." Second, women like myself regard the Franken revelation as a teachable moment. We must grab it--though we wish the person were someone else--to demand national programs to address the casual abuse of women by men and boys. To address the epidemic of violence against women in relationships. More here https://www.facebook.com/naomi.dagenbloom80/posts/1015385368610654?comment_id=1015397545276103&reply_comment_id=1015401321942392&notif_id=1511116561805330&notif_t=feed_comment

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Julie Sheehansays:

November 19, 2017 at 9:58 am

Franken and Dems in the Senate actually have a huge opportunity in the stark contrast between how Franken has handled his shady past and how Moore and the President have. The attention should be on that, with Al Franken and a united front of Dems making his resignation contingent on Trump apologizing to his victims, submitting to a thorough investigation, and resigning if any of his past misdeeds rise to the gravity of Franken's. Ditto for Moore. Dangle a resignation before Republicans, contingent on their behavior and leadership. Sadly, Franken will never need to resign, as Senate Republicans are surely unable to rise to the challenge.

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Victor Sciamarellisays:

November 19, 2017 at 5:24 am

I agree that Franken should, with fingers crossed, be supported. But meanwhile, is there an important opportunity that we might be missing?
For as long as I can remember, when people criticized the existing society and its policies, they did so because they were convinced that the people who controlled the institutions of power, could be persuaded by a rational argument and that society could become something else than what it was.
What seems to be happening is that more and more people no longer believe power is rational and that those who are in positions of authority will not hesitate to expand their interests at the expense of everyone else. Thus, they are no longer willing to tolerate political impotence or endorse the status quo.
Women, have demanded control over their own bodies in reproduction for more then a century, but if you can be intimidated, threatened, raped, blacklisted and lose your career and reputation, unless you are willing to cooperate and become a victim, a means to someone else’s end, then who has power and who is in control?
I think this is a big deal because once you expose power for what it really is, in one area like sex, you open up space to debate other areas such as wealth inequality, climate change, war, healthcare, and what one day seems unsolvable and impractical, suddenly becomes solvable if your unwilling to be a victim.
After all, why is universal healthcare not practical? You either pay too much for insurance, or too much out of pocket when you need care, or too much if you have no insurance, or you have no access, in other words, we become victims to people who view their right to profit from your need more important than your right to healthcare.
And back to Franken. First, consider the Barrick Corporation, a Canadian mining company. Human Rights Watch reported in February 2011 that Barrick’s security guards at their mine in Papua New Guinea were running amok and systematically and violently gang raping the local women. Franken should not be let off the hook, but let’s retain some perspective. In a world of horrific and pervasive sexual violence Franken’s stupid action barely rises to the level of a parking ticket. Unless there is other evidence, Franken can do far more good in the future than harm.
And as Gabriel Kolko wrote, “For though freedom is a posture decision-makers tolerate among the politically impotent, those in power act to make certain that all others remain ineffectual. He continues, “…abstract freedoms flourish in public pronouncements and slogans because they lead nowhere.” “Hence the dissenter has the freedom to become a victim in the social process and history,… .”

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Richard Strawsays:

November 19, 2017 at 5:00 am

He should resign and start to a new organization dedicated to addressing this problem--this is called leading by example--if he resigns due to this he takes all excuses away from the other abusers

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Jonathan Baron says:

November 18, 2017 at 11:15 pm

Some great comments here to go with one of the few well-reasoned articles to come out on Franken regarding this matter.

I was having trouble expressing my outrage when the NYT columnist, Michelle Goldberg, said he had to resign. No sense of proportion. The zero-tolerance approach that feels like religion as it's, somehow, exempt from reason.

But Bill Maher said it best on Friday night. "You are not allowed to be more outraged than the victim." Ms. Tweeden accepted his apology and said she did not wish him to resign.

Unlike the Times, Maher was eager to make distinctions in his monologue. One acted like a jerk. The others performed acts that were beyond the category of a mere jerk. They are predators. Franken is not.

The inability of the alleged left (there is no left in America) to employ context and nuance to their core belief that people should not be treated badly for irrelevant reasons were critical to the election of Trump.

It enabled legions of people who are treated badly to support a candidate who is treating them worse. But our "left" seems as immune to reasoning as the clear and definite right cleverly appears to be.

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Nannette Crocesays:

November 18, 2017 at 4:21 pm

Back in the early 70s, when I first started working — and before sexual harassment became a legal issue — I worked at one company where sexual innuendos and sexual jokes at the expense of women were common, and I worked at another company where such behavior would not have been tolerated, even then. My husband worked with a guy who regularly made passes at the young women. All the other men thought he was a jerk and told him so. My point is two-fold. First, let’s stop assuming that sexual harassment is the norm across the board. Hollywood, where individuals regularly trade off their sexuality, shouldn’t be scene as a microcosm for the world Second, let’s stop making all men apologize for the sexism of a few and stop pretending that nothing has improved since the Madmen era. It’s just such accusations that lead to backlash.

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Curtis Carpentersays:

November 18, 2017 at 11:03 am

Shame on The Nation for its misguided effort to censor those on-the-record facts that fail to support its selected narrative. As the late Daniel Patrick Moynihan observed, everyone is entitled to his (her) own opinion, but not to his (her) own facts. And that applies to facts ignored as well as facts embraced.

Too bad. I thought the magazine held to a higher standard than most.

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Jennifer Falloonsays:

November 18, 2017 at 9:13 am

What should Democrats do? They should forget about it, that’s what! It’s insane, all this attention going to something goofy and boorish that happened years ago.. What is happening to women?! This infantile sense of victimization, if not addressed, and soon, could have long-range consequences that no one wants.

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Spike Jorgensensays:

November 18, 2017 at 8:13 am

One thing for sure Franken and Moore are both very believable. What we know about them doesn't come anywhere close to putting them on the same page.
Frankens apology is a clear statement of a person who grown and learned. The opposite is true for Moore -- to me they have moved in opposite directions. Think what it would have been like for Clinton to have apologized in this nature. Nothing from Clintons. Franken has my support and if more come forward it does not mean that an accuser is being truthful --- lets see!

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Francis Louis Szotsays:

November 18, 2017 at 2:37 am

To be clear,, because I have made multiple posts here,
I am NOT calling for Franken’s immediate resignation.

I have always questioned Franken’s qualification for his office, which
amount to being a celebrity/survivor from among the most notoriously
drug–fueled gang of skit comedians to ever add to the prosperity of
almost every cocaine dealer in NYC and Hollywood.

My response is driven by the impulse of so many Democrats
to leap to his defense, simply because of that “D” preceding his name.

I absolutely expect there will be additional women coming forward.
The recent accusation, on its own, is not sufficient for removal, IMHO.
However, the denial of its seriousness is EXTREMELY counter–productive
toward ending this epidemic of sexual predation.

If Democrats are sincere in wanting Donald Trump, “Judge” Moore, and
every guilty, hypocritical Republikkklan to be held fully accountable for
their crimes, Franken, Weinstein, the Clintons, and every other sexual thug
must be brought to the post for a strict and consequential examination.

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Kathryn M Tomineysays:

November 18, 2017 at 2:05 am

Geez - ladies Grow Up. Your hysterics are not just silly you are coming across as wind-up toys. Franken has said fine, do an ethics investigation into ancient history with an adult woman. Her story to me did not sound authentic at all - just a "me to" attention seeking act.

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Bette Andresensays:

November 17, 2017 at 8:55 pm

Will all the women who have ever been harassed by a politician please come forward, and then we can have them all resign! That would clear out Washington and we can get a fresh start!! :-)

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Suzanne M Rossersays:

November 17, 2017 at 8:50 pm

writers like yourself need to take a step back. Franken is innocent till proven guilty or that's the way if use to be. Your doing Bannon's work for him. Shame on you. Tweed is a Republican who voted for Trump. Did you do any research at all?

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Rudolph Ebnersays:

November 17, 2017 at 7:57 pm

In comedy timing is critical. Leeann Tweed's gag had to wait eleven years. The former master comedian Al Franken has been beaten by his own gag. The gag is on HIM. The Joke is on AMERICA. And she did it in a flak jacket and helmet while asleep!
This should make Leeann a hit on any comedy gig on Fox TV. Everyone is now talking about her. May I suggest Fox and Friends? Watch the ratings soar, watch the gigs multiply.
She can even act as a funny journalist, even as Al Franken has become a very serious US Senator and a real defender of women's rights and dignity. Ha! Ha! HA! Al Franken now is equal to Roy Moore and pussy-grabbing Trump! (I'm just trying to make a joke...comedy is not easy and I now realize that what I said is not funny.) Tweed says she means the senator no harm...now that is funny. And Fox TV has news programs...now that is funny.
Oh, well. We are human and we cry and we laugh.-Rudy

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Rudolph Ebnersays:

November 17, 2017 at 8:09 pm

Addendum to my post. The lady's name is Tweeden, not Tweed. I meant no disrespect. I had never heard of her before. We all will know her now. -Rudy

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Laurel Podraskysays:

November 17, 2017 at 6:48 pm

I like Al Franken. I would have considered him for President if he ran. I still like him and value him as a policy maker. However, this bringing down the veil to sexual assault against women is more important. Crimes against humanity which I consider sexual assault, racism, elitism must be exposed and remedied. Now is our chance to address these issues and for all eternity bring equality to our nation.

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Carol Birkenheadsays:

November 17, 2017 at 6:15 pm

The CBS Evening News last night led off with the Al Franken “scandal”. The second story was the tax bill. They spent about equal amounts of time on both. Unfortunately, the tax bill, which will affect millions of Americans, was given scant coverage and no detail or analysis of its effects. This is what is wrong with American journalism, particularly the major television networks. Let’s follow the easy, sensational story and abandon the responsibility to inform the public of vital information. In addition, they lumped Franken in with the obvious sexual predators in the current news cycle.
I don’t condone the crude photo of Al; however, the definition of groping in my mind doesn’t include what appears to be a clumsy attempt at barely touching a heavy flight jacket. If she felt this while sleeping, it’s truly amazing. As for the kiss, I’m withholding judgment until I hear from Al. I went to school with the originators of the ratf**king school of dirty tricks, who engaged in underhanded tactics to win student elections and who later went to work for Richard Nixon. So I question why Roger Stone (Trump’s personal dirty trickster) knew that Franken was going to be targeted ahead of schedule.
As a woman, I applaud all the women who are coming forward; however, I also will not rush to judgment without more evidence of real harassment, not stupid behavior. And for those who haven’t followed Al’s Senatorial career, he is extremely bright and has asked some of the best, to the point questions in numerous confirmation hearings. He is a fierce advocate for women. I think we should all take a breath.

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Bette Andresensays:

November 17, 2017 at 6:49 pm

Yep, CBS led off with the "scandal." And we didn't hear about the who would benefit and who would be hurt by the tax bill. This stinks of collusion to me. Great work, Leeann! I am sure you will be rewarded! The tax bill gets second place in the news, and they muddy up the name of one of the few senators that has the guts to call them out! Al Franken, I stand behind you! I am not going to be led by identity politics. In this case, I think Al Franken was targeted and used.

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Karin Eckvallsays:

November 17, 2017 at 6:39 pm

If a man molests you while you're asleep, it's not really molestation.? Let's tell all those young women who get drugged and attacked that it's their fault for passing out and they deserve whatever they get.

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Kathryn M Tomineysays:

November 18, 2017 at 2:08 am

You are assuming she was actually asleep.

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Rudolph Ebnersays:

November 17, 2017 at 8:01 pm

Frankly, I think she may be using sex to molest the senator. That is some form of irony, don't you think? Rudy

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Bette Andresensays:

November 17, 2017 at 7:00 pm

She was not molested! Look at the photograph. He did not touch her. He was joking around for the camera. Silly, yes, but hardly molesting! This is WAY out of hand, but a great diversion so we don't notice how we will be hurt by the tax bill, or how OUR national forest, and lands are being given to the highest donor. No, we are all upset over a silly attempt at humor!

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Karin Eckvallsays:

November 17, 2017 at 8:15 pm

You've developed some very fine excuses for his behavior, congratulations.

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Clark M Shanahansays:

November 17, 2017 at 8:59 pm

rolling my eyes, Karin
Witnessing the tribal circling of the wagons.. pitiful.
take hope, my worried Hilbots, Franken's crime is much less significant then "our defender of the Christian America", Judge Moore.
We should all give a hand to Joan for explaining this delicate moment with the upmost gravitas..
You go, Girl!

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Karin Eckvallsays:

November 17, 2017 at 5:53 pm

Once again, her career was HER CHOICE. Having a tongue jammed down her throat and being groped or fake-groped while asleep was not her choice, it was his.
Does her career automatically give men the right to do whatever they want to her? Are you saying she deserved it? You sound like a predator... Maybe you should delete your "silly" comment.

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Karin Eckvallsays:

November 17, 2017 at 6:47 pm

So my comment above was in response to a comment that seems to have vanished, not in response to Ms. Birkenhead's comment.

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Karin Eckvallsays:

November 17, 2017 at 5:33 pm

Wow, it's amazing: Commenters here sound EXACTLY like Trump supporters: It's a hit job! He didn't really DO anything! He was only joking! Boys will be boys! Democrats (Republicans) are worse! At least he didn't do that!

And Katha Pollitt is right: People don't believe women on this matter, and clearly women are quite willing to be dismissive and/or to attack the credibility of other women right along with men.

I really did not expect to see this at The Nation.

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Elizabeth Gioumousissays:

November 20, 2017 at 5:15 am

Karin, I'm not saying he what he did was ok, but it clearly isn't anywhere near as bad as actual assault (not because she was asleep, not that I don't believe her, but just because it sounds more like the type of really crass joke people used to think was funny and plenty still do, and less like trying to rape someone). And as others have pointed out, Ms Tweeden accepted his apology. I doubt she would have so quickly if he had done something closer to attempted rape.

About resignation, I don't know. He might have to just on account of political theatre, but actually I think a serious apology and a bit of groveling are about right for this.

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Francis Louis Szotsays:

November 17, 2017 at 5:48 pm

I'm not as surprised as you are.
This is why the problem is so persistent and pervasive.

Honorable, fair people do not take political sides
when the argument is about sexual assault.

Not every Democrat is fair and honorable.
Though, on the average, far better than Republikkklans,
there are plenty of Democrat Creeps too.

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Philip Millersays:

November 17, 2017 at 5:23 pm

This is why Democrats and liberals continue to lose over over again. Ridiculous and self-righteousness. Tromp, Roy Moore are examples of Republican denial and despicable behavior. But they will double down and they will not suffer the consequences.

Democrats, on the other hand always apologize. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Every single time. Afraid to offend anyone.

This is one more instance of asymmetrical arguments. There is no comparison between this incident and Harvey Weinstein or Roy Moore. And yet Democrats will tie themselves in knots. They will twist their knickers. All for political correctness and self-righteousness.

Get over it. This is a simple stupid incident. This is why Woody Allen cautioned 2 weeks ago this will spiral out of control.

At least Joan understands the ridiculousness of this situation. This is a Fox News construct.

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Francis Louis Szotsays:

November 18, 2017 at 9:33 am

BEAUTIFUL! EXQUISITE!

Philip gives us a quote from Woody Allen about how to react to sexual assault allegations!

PRICELESS, Philip!

Thank you for your contribution.

It was PERFECT!!!

You are a satirical Master!

(Or are you just an Idiot?)

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Francis Louis Szotsays:

November 17, 2017 at 5:28 pm

BEAUTIFUL! EXQUISITE!

Philip give us a quote from Woody Fucking Allen
about how to react to sexual assault allegations!

PRICELESS, Philip!

Thank you for your contribution.

It was fucking PERFECT!!!

You are a satirical Master!

(Or are you just a fucking Idiot?)

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Kurt Weldonsays:

November 17, 2017 at 5:22 pm

People - all of 'em - do stupid things. Sometimes even egregiously stupid things. (No one is denying that worse can be said about this incident.) Franken, like anyone else, deserves a chance to show that he has learned from this and grown beyond it, to the satisfaction of his constituents. If he can't do that, then he should be voted out.

Pigheaded morons like Moore and Trump also deserve the chance to demonstrate that they have learned and grown. One might even argue that they have been given that chance. In their cases, though, allegations of harassment (or worse) are part of a larger pattern of egregious and dangerous behaviors.

That, to me, is what makes the difference.

(36)(1)

Bette Andresensays:

November 17, 2017 at 5:15 pm

And is groping even what this is about? Look at the timing of this complaint. The Republicans are in the middle of passing this horrific tax giveaway to the rich, and they have us talking about Al Franken and what an earlier commenter called "one yucky kiss." Read Democracy in Chains by Nancy MacLean. We're in big trouble and we're arguing about this? We're being played for fools.

Insightful, even–handed, not willing to make coarse,
graceless excuses for strictly political reasons? . . .

If you can't understand that Billery Clinton is the
sexual assault equivalent of Donald Trump, YOU,
and every person like you,
are the biggest part of the problem.

Remember, Billery was accused of rape too.
Not just groping, and unwanted "attention" too freely
and frequently given to vulnerable women.

The whole enchilada; just like Trump.

(3)(8)

Patrick Mullaghysays:

November 18, 2017 at 7:22 am

What are you on about, Francis? I was just noting that the trolls seem to be exercised on this topic. There’s usually something slightly off-kilter about their posts. A certain robust energy. An attempt to appear “fair-minded” before coming down on one side or the other. And at times slightly old-fashioned English, with idioms straight out of a tefl text book. “They are truly birds of a feather who like to flock together,” chirps one fellow. Wow. You don’t say?

What’s that got to do with Bill and Hillary Clinton or my attitude towards Bill’s priapism? Hillary sat beside him on tv while he admitted to cheating and a few short years later he made a fool of her in front of the entire world. Why she stayed with him is a mystery and at this point I’m beginning to think that, good children of the Sixties that they were, they must have agreed from the start that fidelity wasn’t part of the package.

I found most of Bill’s accusers credible, especially Jones and Willey, but Broaddrick’s story was too shocking to believe immediately. With time, however, it appears plausible, as these stories go. Where she over-reached was in claiming that Hillary knew about the attack. I don’t believe that for a second.

(4)(0)

Francis Louis Szotsays:

November 18, 2017 at 8:28 am

I’m wary of your ability to determine which
of the Comments are being inserted by people
whose purpose is to muddle and confuse the issue.
If you have a specific target, then please be specific.

Also, I assumed that I was your “troll”, because of
my overly generous contributions in this thread.
I always respond if provoked; it’s a habit I indulge
because I really enjoy an open and honest debate,
and this topic is very important.

As for the Clintons, they have a marriage of convenience
which mostly benefitted Hillary. Would the nation know her
if she didn’t hitch her star to the bumpkin from Arkansas
who she recognized had been vetted for future public office
while attending the same schools with her? She was appointed
Secretary of State, and had two runs for the Oval Office, but
she is nowhere near as smart as she has been portrayed.

Do you remember the time in the last campaign when she
was reading her speech and actually read ALOUD the word “Sigh”,
when the single word actually was an inserted instruction to her
to produce a sigh at that moment as she read from her Tele–Prompter?

The girl ain’t no genius, but she has memorized “Machiavelli”,
and worships the Devil regularly with her mentor, Henry Kissinger,
so she is very competent in the Evil Arts.

As for being “Children of the Sixties”; true they were both alive
during that decade, but neither ever caught the anti–authoritarian
spirit of the Era. The two of them are avowed Republikans,
and still are. I don’t know what to call the Republiklans today,
but the Party they USED to be in the Sixties are epitomized by
Hillary–Billery; both then, and later, and NOW.

As for fidelity, Billery obviously has none. Hillary, on the other hand,
has been quite loyal to her true lover and lifemate, Huma Abedin,
and they are lucky to have found each other. I do not begrudge them that happiness.

Did Billery rape Juanita Jones? I believe the woman.

(0)(7)

Patrick Mullaghysays:

November 18, 2017 at 9:51 am

No, Francis, I wasn’t referring to you. You’re a regular contributor. Trolls tend to appear out of nowhere, say their piece with energy, often with talking points, attempts at folksy appeal and with English that’s just a little bit whiffy, and that’s it. In the present thread, there are at least half a dozen posts that I would have doubts about, but I’m not going to challenge them individually since: that’s what they want, I might be wrong in some cases, and besides I don’t have the time. (If it was just one, I might.)

Of course you have every right to be wary of my troll-spotting ability, but that’s not going to stop me having my suspicions.

As for Hillary, she would most likely have become an accomplished public servant even if she’d never met Bill. It’s as much to do with drive and ambition as with brains, and she has all three (although you’re right to say that she’s not a genius). Would she still have gotten a shot at the presidency? Probably not. Unless of course the Deep State ordained that it be so… (jk)

(Btw, it wasn’t me who gave your post a thumbs down. That was probably a troll trying to sow division.)

(4)(0)

Elizabeth Gioumousissays:

November 20, 2017 at 5:18 am

I think you might be right. Several posts have an odd style.

(2)(0)

Patrick Mullaghysays:

November 20, 2017 at 9:36 am

Thanks, Elizabeth! I was beginning to wonder if it was my imagination. (Will you marry me?)

(2)(0)

Francis Louis Szotsays:

November 18, 2017 at 8:30 am

Juanita Broaddrick; not Jones.

(0)(0)

Genevieve Beenensays:

November 17, 2017 at 3:49 pm

Hey, I've sent The Nation an article on this topic. I'm still waiting to hear from you. If we fire/imprison every man who has ever harassed or touched a women/girl, we will be a nation of 95% unemployed/imprisoned males. This isn't about MEN; it's about a CULTURE. Boys are taught exactly how to despise their own feminine qualities and to despise and/or control the feminine wherever it presents itself. Until you address the CULTURE (of which we are ALL a part), it isn't fair to attack males for how we teach them to be men or females for how we teach them to present their bodies. The CULTURE is Patriarchy and the rule is that powerful men rule and they rule whatever and whomever they can get their hands on. This CULTURE pervades not only the rich and powerful, but every community, neighborhood, and a majority of our homes. No, not all boys and men go along with the CULTURE, but look around, folks. It's pretty much everywhere.

(33)(1)

Roger Peeblessays:

November 17, 2017 at 3:31 pm

All men are perverts! Get over it!

(2)(12)

Fred Carusosays:

November 19, 2017 at 10:50 pm

If it's the culture (and I believe it is) then. to most women, only "real men" are perverts. The females must enable the males for the whole disgusting mess to work. Right?

(1)(0)

Francis Louis Szotsays:

November 17, 2017 at 5:34 pm

Psychiatrists call it "projection", Roger.

(4)(3)

Andrew Kramersays:

November 17, 2017 at 3:22 pm

There's an alarming disparity of scale here - and hypocrisy.
I certainly don't condone Al Franken's actions and an ethics investigation may rightfully ensue. But Trump and the Republicans' actions and incessant lying cause great harm to our nation. For example, they move to transfer trillions of dollars from the vast majority of us to the wealthy elite, deny reasonable Democratic objections to improve the bill, and lie endlessly about the benefits the average American will receive.
Virtually every essential aspect of our lives is under assault by the GOP - most of it in violation of government officials not benefiting personally from their positions. Yet, where are the ethics investigations? Absent.

(39)(1)

Francis Louis Szotsays:

November 17, 2017 at 5:37 pm

There is some guy named "Robert Mueller" that you might be interested in reading about, just a little, tiny bit, anyway.

(2)(2)

Karin Eckvallsays:

November 17, 2017 at 3:47 pm

The transfer of wealth upward has been going on for decades, facilitated by the actions and policies by Bill Clinton and Obama, along with Republicans. Until we start calling out both parties, instead of making the my-party-is-better-than-your-party excuses, nothing will change. And BTW, mainstream Dems like Schumer say they are all for a corporate tax cut, even though it's totally unnecessary and will not create jobs.

(14)(3)

Karin Eckvallsays:

November 17, 2017 at 3:12 pm

I'd never heard of Al Franken before he became a senator, and I haven't read any of his "charming" and "hysterical" books.

Apparently, his comedy of choice has regularly included topics related to sex and harassment and the demeaning of women. He told a lengthy "joke" about Carl Reiner raping his infant son and pimping him out to friends. He's joked about creating a robot porn magazine and fantasized about having the ability to charm female robots into happily doing his sexual bidding.

As to the tour itself, some are reporting that Tweeden didn't like Franken beforehand and he knew it. She's a conservative and she resisted his "charms" during the tour. Taken as a whole, the sequence of events doesn't sound to me like an innocuous attempt at humor but rather a power play intended to dominate and humiliate her. Making it worse is the fact that in 2006 he was 55 years old, married, and more than a decade past SNL.

Franken initially issued a terse non-apology. His second apology, still a bit equivocal, came after he'd had a chance to consult with his handlers/advisers. Which reflected what he really believes?

In my opinion, Democrats have lost all moral authority because we excuse the bad policy, dishonesty, and bad actions of Democrat politicians by comparing it to that of Republicans: not as bad as Republicans; the Republicans made us do it; the Republicans wouldn't let us do it. I hope we don't go down that road in this instance. I don't know about Senator, but do we really want to elect as president another man who thinks groping breasts is funny, one who considers baby rape a good subject for humor?

(6)(28)

Coleen Garritysays:

November 17, 2017 at 4:42 pm

Well, first of all, she LIED, saying he groped her breasts. You can clearly see, he is mimicking that action for a tasteless gag photo. But he is not 'grabbing her breasts'.
It's NOT OK that he did this. But that doesn't mean you throw the baby out with the bathwater.
If he can redeem himself he should. There are countless men on both sides of the aisle, who have survived much worse.

(31)(2)

Karin Eckvallsays:

November 17, 2017 at 5:46 pm

Actually, I can't see that...It's not clear to me from the photo whether he's touching her or not, but it was meant to look like he did, right? He not only photographed it but used it as the cover for the cover of the commemorative CD of the tour. Why would he do that? Because it's inventive comedy? Because it encapsulated the tenor of the tour? Because it would leave her feeling humiliated? How would he redeem himself? Weinstein did many good things for women's rights; did that redeem him? Also, I didn't say throw him out; I said I wouldn't want him as president.

(1)(1)

Karin Eckvallsays:

November 17, 2017 at 5:47 pm

I'm begging...please give us an edit feature.

(4)(1)

Francis Louis Szotsays:

November 17, 2017 at 3:07 pm

What is with you people who are trying to make it OK that Franken
sexually assaulted the woman because she is an idiot Republiklan?

You do THAT, and you have LOST the debate. “Tit for tat” means that
nothing fundamentally changes.

You think that exonerating Franken (or Billery Clinton) is
ANY DIFFERENT from giving a pass to Trump for similar behavior?

You imagine that an SNK alumnus from the Belushi Era doesn’t have
a few walk–in closets full of such skeletons? How much would you bet me
straight–up that this story is the full extent of Franken’s Foibles?

And . . . speaking of tits . . . I looked–up pinterest.com and found
one web page with 328 photos of the “soft core porn” available
from Ms. Tweeden, and there is NOT a single nipple or VJ shot to be seen.

Every photo is of the young lady solo; some boudoir photos, a few of
her in a thong, many of her in evening wear, all of them very flattering
photos of a very attractive woman, none beyond what you may have seen
on the back page of the New York Post.

(4)(18)

Frances Piercesays:

November 17, 2017 at 2:59 pm

This so-called "sexual assault" is clearly a con-job! Any grown woman (or grown man, for that matter) who has lived in the real world cannot really believe that while rehearsing for a scene where she kisses a guy, the guy can then be held for assault? The photo is silly, childish, and offensive - but who among us did not do silly, childish, and offensive things in our young adulthood?
If we now begin attacking all the people who are sincerely decent and who may have done something sketchy, sexually offensive, or idiotic in our past lives, we do a huge disservice to the thousands of women who have ACTUALLY suffered from sexual abuse and who deserve to be heard.
When the "girl" cries wolf, it is no different from when the "boy" cried wolf! People will stop paying attention sooner or later - let's save those cries for the real wolves at our doors!

(37)(4)

Karin Eckvallsays:

November 17, 2017 at 2:40 pm

Yes, but that was HER CHOICE. This was not.

(0)(1)

Jean Metcalfesays:

November 17, 2017 at 2:40 pm

As a woman who has encountered sexual abuse, I find Ms. Tweeden's comments to be out of line. If she truly just wanted an apology after 11 years, why did she not call Senator Franken? I see this as a hit job. This is the type of thing that one confronts at the time and then move on. Why didn't she? Or was she worried that he would cause harm to her soft porn career? She has done a terrible thing to real victims.

(39)(7)

Karin Eckvallsays:

November 17, 2017 at 5:58 pm

Why didn't Weinstein's or Trump's accusers confront him at the time? Bill Clinton's did in a fairly timely fashion and look what happened to them. You might enlighten all of us with the the details of your experience, how and when you confronted your attacker, etc.

(5)(4)

Lloyd Ellingsays:

November 17, 2017 at 2:09 pm

Leanne accepted his apology! Time to move forward.

(21)(3)

Karin Eckvallsays:

November 17, 2017 at 2:39 pm

Tweeden's acceptance seemed half-hearted and was not offered but only given in response to a question...and she implied there may be more Franken victims.

(2)(10)

Curtis Carpentersays:

November 17, 2017 at 3:02 pm

Perhaps. But here are eight women that have worked for Senator Franken who testify that he has always treated them with courtesy and respect: Katherine Blauvelt, Alexandra Fetissoff, Jessi Held, Lisbeth Kaufman, Natalie Volin Lehr, Karen Saxe, Charlotte Slaiman and Bethany Snyder (via Politico).

(25)(3)

Elizabeth Gioumousissays:

November 20, 2017 at 5:27 am

Yeah, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. Remember Clarence Thomas and his panel of over-earnest women saying he never harassed them. No harasser harasses every woman he meets - although a few like Bill Clinton and Harvey Weinstein might come close.

But I would like to reserve judgement about Franken.

(0)(0)

Karin Eckvallsays:

November 17, 2017 at 3:22 pm

That's nice.

(4)(1)

Mark Bermansays:

November 17, 2017 at 2:03 pm

The Republicans will use Franken and Menendez to cover their own shit. Both should resign. They're a distraction. Minnesota & New Jersey can do better.

(6)(20)

Francis Louis Szotsays:

November 17, 2017 at 4:33 pm

Exactly! Neither of those two chumps are doing anything that can't be done by another more–highly–qualified Democrat, hopefully an intelligent, ethical, scandal–free FEMALE replacement, which both Democratic governors would be able to provide after a few days of input from progressive leaders in their states.

I see him as a cipher.
Not as bad as any Republikkklan, but certainly not a Flaming Leftist,
which happens to be my political motif.

To me, he is utterly replaceable.
You like him. So, we differ.

(2)(5)

Michael Muentzsays:

November 17, 2017 at 2:01 pm

I said to anyone who would listen yesterday that this is a Sean Hannity, Roger Stone FOX, political HIT job.
But everyone is afraid to dig in to her background.
KABC is a RIGHT WING RADIO STATION.
She looks Liberal with those oversized , dark rimmed glasses.
But she's NOT.
Her Father is military
Her husband a retired air force pilot.
She's a right wing political, and social analyst , and past FOX Sports reporter for 14 years ( She's 44)
She is VERY smart. And Very Ambitious.
But everyone is afraid to investigate what might be her motives.
If Franken quits.
Her career possibilities at FOX potentially are stratospheric. Her radio show probably pays her a couple of hundred thousand. Fox pays millions
They'll give her her own show
She's the ONE who brought down Al Franken
They'll give her the 9:00pm hour.
The more the left accuses her, the bigger her ratings will go.
If you don't understand who this woman is
just YouTube her name and Google her. ( Leeann Tweeden/ Sexy) Click on IMAGES.
Watch what happens.
Decide of yourselves. But be informed.
Republicans deny everything and Democrats rush
to confess.
The result. Donald Trump .
I'm forced to put my name to this so if I do get
responses I know what I'm in for.
I'm posting this and never looking at it again

(56)(5)

Francis Louis Szotsays:

November 17, 2017 at 4:42 pm

You people are morons if you think that all
of the people in the Armed Forces of the USA
are right–wing Republikkklans.
You cannot assume that every Air Force pilot,
or ANY particular military man,
is retarded enough to vote for Trump.

(1)(2)

Richard Colombesays:

November 17, 2017 at 1:46 pm

It's amazing how willing liberals are to throw under the bus one of the only members of congress actually doing his job for something done as a joke. Here's a great idea: let's remove all the good politicians and leave in all the ones who are only there for their own self-enrichment. That's bound to work out alright.

(44)(2)

Richard Colombesays:

November 17, 2017 at 1:39 pm

We need to learn how to tell the difference between fake news and real news -- Leeann Tweedon is doing this for political reasons. Franken didn't touch her, and assault cannot happen without physical contact. Franken already said the rehearsal didn't go the way Tweedon claims. Tweedon's past profession in the sex industry plus her willingness to objectify herself for fortune and fame belies her feigned outrage. Ms. Tweedon has been very willing to expose herself to the general public -- that's how she made her name. She is causing more harm than good for women's rights. Everyone should boycott Leeann Tweedon.

(35)(8)

John Pietysays:

November 17, 2017 at 12:55 pm

Joan Walsh could not have said and summarized it better. It is ironic how seemingly no one is finding our fine President's pre-election words and sexist actions no better than Moore's. They are truly birds of a feather who like to flock together. Where was the GOP leadership, holier than thou, ethics back then. While I did and do not approve of sexist feminine put-down humor, Frankin is a boy scout by comparison with Wienstein, Trump and Moore, all three repeat offenders. Frankin should be reprimanded by his colleages but allowed to keep his present positions in the Senate. Leeann accepted his heartfelt apology, unless others come forward, so I do also and so should all who believe that one off color thread does not make a pattern and that a second chance is deserved. Yes, I vote across party lines!

(34)(2)

Joseph E Grinnansays:

November 17, 2017 at 12:43 pm

Avoiding a double standard, or the appearance of one, is hard. But the imbalance of accusations against liberals versus conservative miscreants is galling. For every perceived Democrat or liberal who in implicated, it's been essentially a death sentence Liberals turn on their own, almost, it seems, gleefully, apparently to preserve credibility. And often justifiably. (Who would waste even a moment regretting Harvey Weinstein's fate?). But Republicans/ conservatives? Something of a different story. Alabama Republicans practically canonize the creepy, child molesting Roy Moore while more main stream Republicans hedge their bets. Most maddening of all is the mind boggling hypocricy of Republicans about Trump, the great assaulter in chief, to say nothing of Trump himself who lashes out at Franklin but maintains a craven silence as to Moore. Trump's sexual assaults and yeas of abuse of women are every bit the equal of Harvey Weinstein, if not actually worse, and yet their he sits in the highest office in the land, penaly free,

(42)(4)

Francis Louis Szotsays:

November 17, 2017 at 4:52 pm

EXACTLY! It IS all about ethics, and credibility,
and refusing to accept sexual assault as the price
women must pay to find employment.

Apparently, YOU, like the great majority of Republikkklans,
want it to remain just being about power and politics.

Apparently, YOU are one of the creeps.

(0)(0)

David A Gaeddertsays:

November 17, 2017 at 12:38 pm

Commenting as someone whose militant beliefs find expression through the Democratic party: Al's was a prompt and sincere confession on apparently one incident. He should be given a provisional discharge on good behavior. Until DJT and Roy Moore are completely out of public life, Retardicans and Fox News can just STFU.

(23)(3)

Sandy Personssays:

November 17, 2017 at 12:15 pm

Good article and I agree - we “shouldn’t throw out the baby with the bath water”.

(30)(1)

Curtis Carpentersays:

November 17, 2017 at 11:47 am

I would like to see a "Beer summit" between Mrs. Tweeden and Sen. Franken. She deserves a face-to-face apology, and it appears (from my very limited knowledge of her) that she has the character to accept one -- while Franken has the character to provide it with sincerity.

Apart from the individuals involved though, such a face-to-face act of contrition would give us a nice counter example to the "deny everything -- admit nothing -- offer alternate facts" approach to misconduct that seems to have become the norm in our country today.

(21)(1)

Francis Louis Szotsays:

November 17, 2017 at 11:47 am

The New York Times just published an Op–Ed called “I Believe Juanita”,
written by their reporter Michelle Goldberg.

Time to purge Hillary–Billery Clinton . . . IMMEDIATELY.

Unless and until YOU get on–bard with THAT movement,
shut–up because you have ZERO ethical credibility in these matters, Joan.

Franken is a silly and untalented comedian who somehow found
enough fat–cat donors to bankroll his latest gig. Groping women
and snorting tons of cocaine while he ran with the SNL gang
during the "Belushi Era" of that teeVee show/orgy are his ONLY
credentials for the Senate position he NOW holds.

Well, . . . maybe that DOES give him the majority of the typical
requirements for holding a Senate office, but HE IS RIDICULOUS.

Kick him to the curb for being a bore, and maybe because he helped
the degenerates at SNL terrorize numerous women, and keep a dozen
drug cartels profitable.

Sure, some women and men were willing to make the sordid trade
so they could get THEIR gigs, but not ALL of them. This can’t be
the only pitiful and disgusting memory from those party–hearty years
when he continuously caroused in the Palaces of Debauchery in
New York City and Hollywood.

(3)(52)

Clark M Shanahansays:

November 17, 2017 at 9:07 am

He should be exiled, along with Hill, Bill, and Nancy.

(7)(48)

Curtis Carpentersays:

November 17, 2017 at 2:49 pm

If that's the best you can do Clark, I'd have to say that whoever's paying you for your endless attacks on all things Democratic just isn't getting his money's worth.

(17)(2)

Clark M Shanahansays:

November 17, 2017 at 9:06 pm

congrats for your thumbs up, seems both you and David Brooks could fend well in this circling of the wagons.

He sure swallowed the whole fake news story on Yellow Cake..
Why we put such people on pedestals is beyond me.
Ditto for our Disciple of Henry Kissinger, Sainte Hill.

(8)(16)

Ronald Ostertagsays:

November 17, 2017 at 9:01 am

The highly suspect claims of Tweeden made through her conservative radio station with zero investigation or corroboration is being blindly accepted by both right and left commentators within hours to the detriment of Real Victims of Sexual Assault as well as our Democracy, This Is Not Journalism.

(19)(11)

Mike Bucklandsays:

November 17, 2017 at 7:08 am

No, Franken should not resign. His behavior was crude and insensitive. Just a stupid stunt intended to keep the boys entertained. However, to sacrifice him on the altar of high morals in today's culture would be an over-reaction. Serious people should take a measured view of this incident in context. He has given a full apology and will no doubt be admonished by his colleagues. And if I am right he will take this as an opportunity to become an even better Senator.

(72)(6)

Kathlyn Hoekstrasays:

November 17, 2017 at 6:50 am

I don’t believe Sen. Franken should resign for the following reasons:
1) he isssued a comprehensive apology and it was accepted by his accuser and she said he should not resign,
2) I think the stories which talk about his groping her (see the picture) are silly since personally I think it’s impossible to grope someone’s breasts who has on a flack jacket. Was the picture and action in bad taste, yes, but calling it groping is typical media sensantionization,
3) although his actions of kissing her were wrong, it was part of the skit - it wasn’t an ambush and she essentially gave him permission. Now I realize some will talk of the imbalance of power between the two and that she was pressured into giving her consent, but I just think the pendulum has swung too far if we expect men to never make this kind of mistake and decide their apology is just not enough, especially when they have the record that they have in supporting women. And as much as I hate to admit it, if the shoe was on the other foot and some republican had Franken’s record and did the same - my opinion would be the same.

(56)(6)

Karin Eckvallsays:

November 17, 2017 at 11:16 am

So it's okay for him go grab her breasts, it doesn't count as as a "real grope", if she's heaving clothing? What if she had been wearing a blouse and heavy sweater? Still okay for him to grab them? What about a light sweater? When exactly would it have counted as a real grope?

(7)(12)

Elizabeth Gioumousissays:

November 20, 2017 at 5:42 am

No, a flak jacket is qualitatively different from normal clothing. A heavy sweater is just quantitatively different.

(0)(0)

Curtis Carpentersays:

November 17, 2017 at 12:05 pm

Putting aside the technical problem of what constitutes a "grope" Karin (and I do see your point) -- what is your view as to the punishment that fits this particular crime? Can Franken ever be redeemed? And if so, how?

I ask because as a young man many years ago (well over half a century now) I may have groped a young woman at one time (no photos though). Am I damned to roast in hell for all eternity?

(17)(1)

Bette Andresensays:

November 17, 2017 at 3:03 pm

I am a woman, a feminist, older and was involved in the Women's Movement when it started to really evolve many years ago. And what female, in those bygone years, was NOT groped, and what man didn't try? I am very excited to see this change in attitude, but to bring up every incident in the past, when there was an entirely different accepted moral reality, is disturbing. How many men in their 60s and 70s, living good and honorable lives, have to worry about some incident in the back seat of a car, or elsewhere that happened 40 years ago? Come on!! I find this absurd! Cosby, Weinstein absolutely! But a grab in an obviously joking way is ridiculous! I remember one young guy I knew who asked about women from a friend who seemed more successful in attracting the opposite sex. What advice he got I don't know, but he came up and just put his hand on my breast. It was a joke and I laughed. I was not damaged! The tears over some incident 40 years ago where no one was hurt......... Get a grip! To me this trivializes rape and violence and the very real damage being done to women. But some ancient grope.......... Suck it up and get over it! I remember seeing those USO shows with Bob Hope on T.V. Sex is what they were about!

(26)(1)

Francis Louis Szotsays:

November 17, 2017 at 5:07 pm

Pathetic. At least get the woman's complaint right.

Her main problem was with the aggressive,
hand at the back of her head, pinning her face
to his mouth, while Franken pathetically jambs
his tongue up against her tonsils.

Doesn't sound so benign and trivial after all. does it?

And, if we could have access to the Omniscience Portal
for a couple of minutes, I'd bet my house that Ms. Tweeden
was not the only woman that Franken assaulted in some similar manner.

(0)(6)

Karin Eckvallsays:

November 17, 2017 at 3:00 pm

I see two issues here: the act and the consequences. I was addressing the dismissal of the act, the grope, as insignificant or non-existent. And of course, for Tweeden, the photographed grope, which was used as the cover of the tour's commemorative CD, was just the last straw in a sequence of events that in her opinion (and mine) seemed not about humor or a cheap thrill, but about exerting power over and humiliating her. Was that what you were doing when you copped a feel or two? Do you think you should be damned to roast in hell for all eternity? (Sounds like you don't really see my point at all.)

(0)(5)

Francis Louis Szotsays:

November 17, 2017 at 5:14 pm

Jeebus! Nothing but more bikinis and full–length dresses.

WTF are you talking about?

I didn't go past the third page, but if you think those photos are "scandalous" to ANY degree, you've got to be a twelve–year–old Mormon.

(0)(0)

Karin Eckvallsays:

November 17, 2017 at 11:16 am

wearing heavy clothing

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Karin Eckvallsays:

November 17, 2017 at 11:17 am

TO grab her breasts. Sorry folks, I thought I'd edited, but clearly not...

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James Scaminaci Iiisays:

November 17, 2017 at 2:37 am

One yucky, unwanted kiss. That is the extent of his transgression. It was during a rehearsal for a skit involving a kiss. Did Franken threaten Leeann Tweeden? No. Did Franken do anything to affect Tweeden's career? No. He did not touch her breasts. It was a juvenile gag, while she is wearing body armor. It does not look good, but it is not assault, sexual or otherwise. No where has Tweeden stated that Franken had a reputation like Louis CK did. Where are the swirls of rumors for years or decades about Franken? Nowhere. Franken has asked for a Senate ethics investigation. Good. But, as the story stands now, this is not even close to a case where Franken should resign. In fact, the story has been blown out to ridiculous proportions, particularly in the description of what is happening in the photograph.

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Patrick Mullaghysays:

November 17, 2017 at 2:34 am

I don’t understand why people are calling Franken’s statement “an excellent apology” when he seems to be disputing, or at least hedging, about Tweeden’s central claim, that he badgered her into “rehearsing the kiss” that he had written into a skit, and that when she agreed to do it he stuck his tongue in her mouth.

She wrote: “He repeated that actors really need to rehearse everything and that we must practice the kiss. I said ‘OK’ so he would stop badgering me. We did the line leading up to the kiss and then he came at me, put his hand on the back of my head, mashed his lips against mine and aggressively stuck his tongue in my mouth.
I immediately pushed him away with both of my hands against his chest and told him if he ever did that to me again I wouldn’t be so nice about it the next time.
I walked away. All I could think about was getting to a bathroom as fast as possible to rinse the taste of him out of my mouth.
I felt disgusted and violated.”

In his statement, Franken says, “While I don’t remember the rehearsal for the skit as Leeann does, I understand why we need to listen to and believe women's experiences."

Obviously he needs to be asked, “How do you remember the rehearsal for the skit?”

Is it his recollection that the kiss never happened or if it did it didn’t involve wetness or perhaps even that it was she who came on to him?

And of their differing recollections, which of them should be believed? It’s not clear that he’s saying people should believe Tweeden. “…I understand why we need to listen to and believe women’s experiences.” Okay, but *in this case* who should we believe? Tweeden? Then say so explicitly, instead of coming out with a kind of syllogism: Women should be listened to and believed. Tweeden is a woman. Therefore Tweeden should be believed. Is that the idea?

As of now, I do believe her. The leering photo lends her story credibility. (If the photo was staged with her consent, I think he'd say so.) I also find it hard to believe that it was a once-off on Franken’s part. At fifty-five years of age it suddenly pops into his head to play a shabby trick on a young woman when they’re thousands of miles from home entertaining the troops? Yeah, right.

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Walter Pewensays:

November 17, 2017 at 8:40 am

It's easier to have a more reasoned response like Joan's if your readers actually know what YOUR attitudes towards your own sexuality are. If I hear one more person, straight or gay, pontificate about these kind of things from some vestibule of church, political party, or media outlet I'm going to vomit.

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Brian Cairnssays:

November 16, 2017 at 10:14 pm

Anyone want to guess what Walsh's response would have been about the exact same scenario if the culprit were Bernie Sanders rather than Franken?

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Clark M Shanahansays:

November 17, 2017 at 9:12 am

To oppose Hill, one had to be a full-blown sexist.
I thank Joan for being one of the very first to warn us of the twisted, "deplorable" Bernie-Bros.

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Walter Pewensays:

November 17, 2017 at 9:30 am

Of course, Clark. Everybody know what a woman-hating gay guy I am, for example. One that got thrown off the ERA website for ONE derisive comment about Hill.
This is not what this was all about when I came out in 1977. Joan was not reciting much last year that I could endorse.

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Clark M Shanahansays:

November 17, 2017 at 10:57 am

Hi, Walter.

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Walter Pewensays:

November 17, 2017 at 5:33 pm

Isn't this all kind of tiring and derisive? I mean, as I wrote at Joan's column the other day, shouldn't we as democrats be talking about wages and stuff like that? Like stay on the topic of 15 an hour or bust?