This was
a post in one of the clubs I am in on Yahoo. I am posting this and
several replies to show the problems we have with "submission and
love" Names or any reference to the club or posts
numbers have been deleted to protect privacy. Note messages by other then
myself are in green.
Mine are in our
normalweb
site color.

hello
everyone, and good evening to you all. i am in need of some scriptures in
reference to husbands honoring their wives. they would be helpful to me right
now.

This was
a reply to this message by a another woman.

Well I am
thinking about one in particular in Ephesians 5:verse 25 but lets start at verse
22 which states....
verse 22
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord....for the
Husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church; and
he is the savior of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so
let the wives be to their own husbands in everything....now lets move to verse
25 which I might add is a pretty tall order...in fact I don't think many
husbands really even come close.....if actually any at all....
verse 25
It says.....Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and
gave himself for it.
verse 26
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word;
verse 27
That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or
wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
verse28
So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife
loveth himself.

verse 29
For no man ever yet hated his own flesh, but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even
as the Lord the church.....

Pretty tall order isn't it....Seems like the husbands job is sooo much harder
than the wives doesn't it? And truly very rarely done....After all who can truly
follow the example that our Lord set for us....But I do tell you this if any man
would even try to come close he surely wouldn't have any problem with his wife
doing her part......I have soooo many more scriptures if you need them please
email me and I will send you the references....God bless you and I pray that God
truly will accomplish this in both you and your husbands marriage.....In His
Love,

This was
my reply: (note the original question was previously posted)

There have
been several responses to your first request for this. Post (post numbers deleted)
was mine and this is it again:

I think the scripture you are looking for is in Eph 5:22-33 and 1 Peter 3: 1-12

I firmly believe a wife is also to be submissive to her husband BUT my wife is
not saved so this is not written to her....Yet. so she need not be submissive to
me. I however still have to love her as Christ loves the church. I have to do MY
part even if she does not do Her part.

You see, my need to follow and obey God is not dependent on any one else....it
is a commitment between God and me ...NO ONE else.

When we pray for those that are misusing us.. WE are the first ones to change.
It is our job to allow God to make US what we should be. To allow God to mold
us.. The Psalmist prayer is Search ME oh Lord... not search my husband....search
my wife...

(name
deleted) , since I have really started to do this, and since I have stopped
trying to change my wife, we are getting along so much more. My wife is even
backing my ministry fully, something she has never done before. (name deleted)
has even talked to her a few times and can confirm this.

Men, I contend that the more we LOVE our wife, the more submissive they will
become to us. You see, if we love someone we do not want them to be our
slave...so that idea is out. I can say more on this and it is something we do
address in a couple of other clubs.

Ladies, the more you submit to your own husband, the more love he will give to
you.

yes it is hard.. very hard.. but it is God's way and He has promised to help

Now as post (deleted) shows, this is often very misunderstood and it does
seem that many use the "submissive" word as if it was a bad word. Feminist
organizations like the National Organization of Women are trying to make sure
men have all the responsibility and accountability while women have all the
rights and privileges. This is not what God intended.

(name deleted had a good response to this post (deleted) and I remind
everyone that if we do things God's way...everyone is happy. If not. everyone
suffers. I see far to well in my main ministry the suffering done by both men
and women and especially our children for not doing things Gods way.

I also remind each of us that we should not be concerned with what HE or SHE
should be doing but what WE should be doing. We WILL be accountable to God even
if we are told by humans we need not be.

Ken

Now here is
a response to the reply by the woman above. It shows the problem we have
with the
feminization of our churches.
I might point out that this person is a female pastor and she is a member of at
least one feminist club.

Right Godly
Summision,Jesus, King Of Kings washed His diciples feet. He who is and was chose
to humble Himself to wash the diciples feet.
How many men do this for their bride? Wash the dishes, wash the baby, go to the
grocey store,If Jesus humbled Himself, Who is mere mortal man that they would
not.
Jesus Loved His Bride and gave Himself up for Her, How about you? This is what
the word says for a man to do. Teachings not being one sided...
Can you say your wives are crazy in Love with You? Would you die for her, the
way Jesus died for us?
Read what Jesus says to the husband in the word..Go deeper in your drink of
Jesus.

To which
I replied:

First let
me say I have agonized all day and night since this post on if I should reply.
It is a very tender issue for me. To understand why and before you read
on...Please read this to see where I am coming from:

OK done? now please R E A D all of what I am about to say without jumping to
conclusions.
(this is for all, not just to the one I am replying to)

One reason this post hits home so much is that I use to go to a lot of porno sites. but
only sites that abused men. Most of them literally made men the women's SLAVE
and well I will not go beyond that. These men did it willingly because their
self esteem was so low they thought women we vastly superior to them. Now I
realize that according to Christ, being like HIM means to be a servant and Yet
you are right, there are times we should "Wash the dishes, wash the baby,
go to the grocey store" but I ask WHERE does service end and SLAVE begin?

I also ask is this written to MEN Only? Are not women to model themselves after
Christ? Are not women to be servants too?

I hope you have noticed that in every post I place about what a woman is suppose
to do in a marriage.. I also include what men are to do. I found this lacking
here. I then ask, when your husband is "Wash the dishes, wash the baby, go
to the grocey store" what are you doing? If we are to use Christ for an
example, are you washing the car, changing the oil, fixing the roof, or doing
the things a man does around the home?

"Can you say your wives are crazy in Love with You? " I can say
absolutely YES she is. In fact my wife has been telling me often lately that I
do not stress that what I am doing in my primary ministry is for abused MEN hard
or often enough but I firmly believe that I have to help anyone that asks me for
help. As a result I help as many if not more women then I do men. Many of these
women are here in this club and may well be reading this message.

I often ask why more men do not come to God. I find that often they do not see
anything in it for them. Our churches have become feminized. (I have a message
about this on my web site but can not link to it right now since the server is
down until later today) I find that if we expected men to do all of the things
that this post is replying to.... Men would think why become a Christian only to
become a slave to my wife. We already see many things happening that makes it
look like it will soon be illegal to be a male. I have spent a lot of time in
feminist forums before and since this dam I refer to in my testimony linked
above broke wide open and if you did your homework you should have read by now)
In many of these radical feminist literally want to get the entire male
population down to 10% of the total. that is to have one male for every 9
females. This idea is rapidly spreading into main stream feminist camps. It is
not an idle threat and some are actively working toward this. Remember a man
named Hitler demonized the Jews in the late 30's? He blamed all the ills of
society on the Jews. Is not this what society is doing with men now? Everything
that is wrong is a man's fault. We have the Violence Against Women Act although
men are abused as often as are women. There is not a dime to protect men while
billions are there for women. some of which actually encourage women to falsely
accuse men of crimes that did not do. so this in return assist in demonizing
men. We find that women are valued so much higher then men. In fact our last
Sect of Health Education and Welfare actually masked the suicide rate for our
boys as a racial issue (that is our school aged boys are killing themselves in
record numbers) and she did nothing about that but she freed millions of dollars
to help girls "feel" better about themselves. Well sorry to say but if
a boy is about to blow his brain out, I do not think he feels to great about
themselves.

We also see
this in recent news with the ex senator admitting he killed civilians mostly
women and children. If they had been all MEN would we have heard anything? I
think not. After all we did not hear a thing when the U N troops in a refugee
camp in Bosnia turned over thousands of men and boys to their enemy
knowing they would be tortured and killed... but they were only males. We did
not say anything when Iran and Iraq used 12 and 13 y/o boys to be human shields
with thousands of them dying. We say nothing when the Arabs use boys in Israel
to throw rocks at the Israelis while men shoot at them so when they return fire
the boys are killed thus fueling their propaganda machine.

We see this in the health area. Prostate cancer kills almost as many men as does
breast cancer women yet for every dollar spent on prostate cancer much more is
spent on breast cancer. Many of the things we are told are lies. For one we have
been told by the NIH that women have been shortchanged in health research. That
was plastered all over the media. Recently they retracted that statement and
said women have never been short changed but we have not hear a word about that.
This given the fact that men die 7 to 8 years earlier then women.

So you see, your statement "Would you die for her," well the answer is
that most likely we men WILL do just that. but if we all did that...who would
"Wash the dishes, wash the baby, go to the grocey store,"?

I could say much more but my guess is I said enough already but I wanted to let
people know why I accent abused MEN so much.

Many are reaching out to help women. Few are reaching out to help men.

In reality, I still have no problem that men die in wars, and so many other
places far more often then do women IF these men knew our LORD. I can not help
thinking that many of these men had little chance to learn about him. The
average age for the men in Viet Nam was less then 20 and 58,000 returned in body
bags. 8 women did.

The bottom line? I want everyone to have the same chance to know the LORD and it
bothers me that some will have much less a chance because they were male. It
would bother me if this were true because they were female.

Is it not time we value ALL our people?

BTW I have had a female friend at work read this before I posted it to see how
it sounded. She has told me she feels this needs to be said and that it IS time
to value ALL our people.

For the LAMB
ken

Please
note that in all of the previous posts we all need to realize that we are not
fighting each other.

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities,
against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against
spiritual wickedness in high places." Eph 6:12

People, satan wants men and women to fight each other. He knows full well that
when a husband and wife are serving the Lord together, they are able to make a
MAJOR impact on his kingdom.

satan also has been working to get men out of our homes as he knows the effect
fatherless homes have on our children both our sons and daughters.

satan tries very hard to get men to be too strict or even abusive as our view of
GOD is given to us by our earthly fathers. If our father was abusive or too
demanding, we tend to see God this way too. If he was loving and caring, we have
no problem seeing God like this. Many women who have been abused by men have a
very hard time calling God "Daddy" yet that is the relationship that Almighty
God... the God of the Universe, the creator of heaven and earth
"WANTS" with us.

Let us all remember that most of what we are told by the media and so many other
groups are lies from the father of lies and that God wants us to work TOGETHER
to serve HIM.. We are to compliment each other because where I am weak, my wife
is strong and where she is weak, I am strong. THIS is what God intended...not
the mess we see in the world...

Once again:

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against
powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual
wickedness in high places.

ken

This was
another reply to the above

Jesus said
love one another as He has loved us.
What you called feminist God said that there is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither
Male nor female, nor slave or free.
Since the Kings James was translatted in a time that women held no right, words
that should of been translated both male and female, were only translated male.
Jesus church has no room for hate and i just feel that their is a place in Your
own heart you may need to bring before the Lord...
Ken, and i love you in the Lord and some have the authority to rebuke, not just
the Holy Spirit.
God used and uses women as Ministers, Pastors...There is no room for biggitory
in Christ Body...
And excuses about men and women in control will not cut it eaither, excuses are
just that excuses.
The kkk calls themselves Christians but look at the fruit, hate of ones not like
them.
Truth is God used women to hold the body of Christ together, when so many men
were going through the great fall out. My grandmother was such a woman a
ordained pastor on fire for the Lord.
Men have taught sumission to control, this is not the meaning of submission, it
is to be under ones mission, and alot of men may not like it that God, Jesus,
and the Holy Spirit uses women just as much as men.
No excuses, eaither you love Jesus or You dont, everyone has excuses God doesnt
like them and it is one of the first things you learn in leadership classes.
Repentence brings refreshing, not excuses are a way of exscaping
responciabilties...Repentence and remorse...
Controlling spirits are never Godly, not even in the form of sumission, so one
has to have a true Godly exsample of summision, Jesus laid down His life for us
while we were yet sinners...Jesus washed the diciples feet.
Let keep this clear to when a man or woman beats one into sumission eaither with
words and or fist, this is not Jesus.
When a man uses sumission to control his wife, this is not true Godly sumission...Who
wants to be in summision to a controling man or one who beats his wife?
Summision means that your spouce is in agreement with your mission for the most
part...Even though that there may be times of disagreements...
I pray that you will have the release to understand true Godly sumission. That
excuses will not bring repentence but repenting does...it brings Gods
refreshing...
Let be be clear here we do love you very much in Jesus and we will keep loving
you in Jesus.

My
Reply

"but biggitory is a
sin and if you want to call this a rebuke then so be it"

, please show me anywhere in any of my post in any club anything that shows bigotry
on my part.

In fact, let us examine the record concerning this thread. I answered a post
that asked how a "husband" should honor is wife, using scripture. I
did that however I went on to point out BOTH sides and pointing out that EACH of
us should be concerned about what WE are to do, not what the other person does.
(see post deleted) in which I wrote (cut and pasted so this is exact)

"Men, I contend that the more we LOVE our wife, the more submissive they
will become to us. You see, if we love someone we do not want them to be our
slave...so that idea is out. I can say more on this and it is something we do
address in a couple of other clubs."

I repeated this in post 9653

Yes I do stress "men" because they have few places to go. Even on the
internet for clubs to help hurting people, there are about 10 for women only for
each club aimed for men. Even Shatterd Men has 1/3 female members and as many
female founders as men.

I also replied to your post.. post (deleted) in which "you" wrote
(emphasis mine:)

"How many MEN do this for their bride?"
"Who is mere mortal MAN that they would not."
"This is what the word says for a MAN to do"
"Would you die for her, the way Jesus died for us?"
"Read what Jesus says to the HUSBAND in the word"

You also said "Teachings not being one sided..."

I pointed out BOTH sides in each post I made. I only see ONE side here

I replied to you but I see no direct response to my questions or statements.
Just a one sided view from which I can draw no other conclusion that ONLY MEN
are to model themselves after Christ and ONLY MEN are suppose to be willing to
die for another. I have made a charge that the feminist movement has invaded the
church and I will stick to that charge as I see here in this post that feminist
want equal rights and privileges but they want men to assume ALL the
responsibility and accountability with NO rights or privileges for themselves.

I find few clubs that are for "men" only yet I found a club that had
this introduction for it. I was invited to join but was deleted when I asked
about the introduction. I will not name the club.

"A UNIQUE MINISTRY THAT WILL USE ANOINTED WOMEN FROM DIFFERENT BACKGROUND
AND RACES,TO GO OUT AND MINISTER TO A LOST WOMAN. THIS MINISTRY WAS REVEALED BY
THE (HOLY SPIRIT)TO GO AND MINISTER TO WOMEN ONLY. GOD WILL USE THESE ANOINTED
WOMEN TO NOT ONLY LEAD THEM TO CHRIST, BUT ALSO TO MEET THEIR NEEDS WHATEVER
THOSE NEEDS MAYBE. WITH THE TRIALS AND TRIBULATION THAT YOU HAVE GONE THROUGH,
GOD WILL BE ABLE TO LEAD YOU TO THAT WOMAN TO MEET HER NEEDS AND MAKE HER LIFE
BETTER.

Note is is only for lost "women" and they are to "TO GO AND
MINISTER TO WOMEN ONLY." and to "MEET HER NEEDS AND MAKE HER LIFE
BETTER."

(I assume the the expense of men?)

So you see , my statement that society places more emphasis on the comfort of
women then it does on the life of men...has invaded the church too.

I am not trying to "rebuke" anyone. That is the job of the Holy
Spirit. I am trying to open a few eyes so we can again value ALL our people.

Ken

This was
another reply to another poster

YOU are
correct ... it 'does' go both ways ...

God created man for God and woman for man ... that, in my personal opinion,
means that He created woman as a 'gift' to a man ... I've also been told by
"MEN" who believe and consider their wives as 'gifts' from God ... I
know women who would LOVE to be treated, as wives, the way many of their
husbands treat their automobiles; now, that's not only sad -- it's WRONG,
according to God's Holy Word ...

In the New Testament, King James Version, Holy Bible, Christ tells the husband
to love his wife as Christ loved the church ... Christ did very many things for
'us' the church; He also DIED for the church ...

I am a Christian wife, my husband is not a Christian; yet, he respects me very
much ... 'I' have to listen to what God tells me and if my head and gut tell me
something isn't right; then, I believe something DEFINITELY ISN'T RIGHT ... I
also read and study my Bible, I pray and meditate, I attend church regularly,
etc., so if there is something that I'd rather not do (or whatever) and my
husband doesn't understand, I back it up with God's Holy Word -- it ALWAYS wins,
at least it does in our home; and I thank God for this ... my husband is a very,
very wonderful man, sadly, the only thing missing from his life is Christ ... he
has wonderful Christian parents ...

Yes, wives are to be submissive to their husbands, b-u-t ... God's Holy Word
also describes the EXACT HUSBAND WE ARE TO BE SUBMISSIVE TO ... be careful ...
God is NOT mocked ... He does NOT expect YOU to sin to be submissive and/or
pleasing to your husband ...

I like what I heard an elder (male) preacher say many years ago, "when men
run out of things to preach / teach about, they start picking on their TV's and
wives' and if your not careful, they've got both." Okay, it was meant
humorous, but it does make an excellent point ... 'PRACTICE what YOU PREACH!'
...

I, as a Christian woman, believe in this order: God, Christ, man, woman ... it
has NEVER bothered me where I fall in this order ... are you kiddin' ...
sometimes, if 'mankind' will really look at a totem pole, the one on the bottom
is holding everyone above it UP ... I believe God intends for women to be
treated with great respect ... and, no, please do not take my word for it ... do
some / allot of brush up reading in your Bible ... I'm only the messenger, God's
still the author!

Also, Abraham's wife loved and honored him so very much that she called him,
"lord" ... not as her spiritual Lord and Savior, nay/nay, but as her
earthly lord ... now men, THAT'S LOVE AND HONOR!!!

What also helps me, personally, is, I stop and think, 'what would God want me to
do, what would God want me to say, what would God ...' -- I find this helps me
first please my Heavenly Father and, yes, very much pleases my husband, who I
love supremely on this 'earth' and next month we will be celebrating our 25th
wedding anniversary ...
For years and years and years, so long that I don't remember not doing it, every
day, I always thank God for this another day of life, another opportunity to
serve Him, another opportunity for the lost to be saved, and I thank Him and ask
Him to continue to bless, protect, and keep safe from all harm, my home,
marriage, and family ... That's how much my husband, marriage, and family mean
to ME ...

I honor men who EARN the right, through God, to be honored ...

And, everyone, please know that my message comes from my heart, soul, and mind
... and there within dwells God's love ... for both man and woman = God's
children ...

YOU and your HUSBAND are BOTH in my prayers ... I love YOU gal!

To which I
replied:

I agree
with most of what you have said. However I would like to point out that god has
instructed submission to unsaved husband too:

1 peter 3: likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if
any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation
of the wives;

Also please note that this starts out "likewise" so we have to go back
to find out what "likewise" is referring too. It many be interesting
to find this out.

"I honor men who earn the right, through god, to be honored"

Would it be correct for me to say I love or respect the women who earn the right
to be loved and respected? If you are referring to your husband, you really do
not have a choice if you are to obey god. We are to respect the position our
authority is in even if we do not agree with them personally.

1 peter 2:12 having your conversation honest among the gentiles: that, whereas
they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they
shall behold, glorify god in the day of visitation. 13 submit yourselves to
every ordinance of man for the lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as
supreme; 14 or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the
punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

Again I do feel most of your post was right on. My wife is not saved yet either
and as I have always pointed out, my duty to love her is not based on her
submissiveness to me. I also want to point out that by doing things his way, she
is backing me fully in what I am doing. In fact she has read my posts on this
subject earlier starting with 9654 re: need scriptures and she fully agrees with
what I said. She told me that she knew I had to have prayed long and hard before
replying and that it showed. Not bad for someone that is saved yet.

One more point to clear up... I have seen often those that try to tell us that a
husband and wife have to be co-submissive. In fact that was tried at a marriage
workshop I attended but as I pointed out, this is a lie from satan and another
attempt at the full feminization of our society. There is no room for this in
godís word. How do I know? Read eph 5:23 for as the husband is the head of the
church, even as Christ is the head of the church. Now if you can find anywhere
in his word where the church is co submissive to Christ...then I will retract
all I have said and change my views. Again however, submission has to be
offered... as my love for my wife has to be offered...neither can be demanded.
And once more if someone submits to us, that does not make them a door mat, nor
does us loving someone mean we have to accept all of their behavior. Christ
loves us unconditionally but we do not count on that love so much that we feel
we can get away with things. This is just as Christ offered himself for us...

Again I do feel most of your post was right on. My wife is not saved yet either
and as I have always pointed out, my duty to love her is not based on her
submissiveness to me. I also want to point out that by doing things his way, she
is backing me fully in what I am doing. In fact she has read my posts on this
subject earlier starting with 9654 re: need scriptures and she fully agrees with
what I said. She told me that she knew I had to have prayed long and hard before
replying and that it showed. Not bad for someone that is not saved yet.

Philippians 2:8 and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and
became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Much of what I am saying goes against the grain of those who have been subtly
indoctrinated with the feminist mind set but remember the wisdom of god is foolishness
to man (and woman) I firmly believe that the church is putting the cart before
the horse by catering to women as it is keeping men out by the thousands, yet if
they did meet the needs of men, we would see far more women benefit too by
having their husbands be all they can be in god's Army!!

Her Reply

The Word
says that there is neither jew nor greek slave,nor free, male nor female. God
calls and God ordaines.
I love the king James but the era it was translated in women and slaves had no
rights, so words that should of translated male and female were only tranlatted
male.
Now the greek, arabmica, and the Torah, give us a more clear definition of this
translation.
I am glad that God doent allow biggitory in the body, this is not Jesus nor Gods
heart.
Lets Look at Jesus actions, since He is who we are to reflect, Mary learned with
them at Jesus feet, it was Mary, at the empty tomb, and Mary who received that
He had risen with faith.Mary had been on Jesus inner circle.
My husband is saved, he reflects Jesus in all that he does and hates biggitory
of any type.
I have been called od God to preach and a woman.
I love that it is your call to help hurting men, this is great, but God is no
respector of persons, neither male nor female.
A man that demands to have sumission does not have love, We love Jesus,
therefore we want His heart, in us always/.
So many men use summision to beat or abuse or make slaves out of their wives
because they want to control them. Control is in every pray circle cosidered
witchcraft...and not a Godly action.
True love and freedom in Jesus Christ allows us to love Jesus and to have His
heart,

The last
post in this series (to which I chose not to respond to prevent it from becoming
a debate) was:

The Word
says that there is neither jew nor greek slave,nor free, male nor female. God
calls and God ordaines.
I love the king James but the era it was translated in women and slaves had no
rights, so words that should of translated male and female were only tranlatted
male.
Now the greek, arabmica, and the Torah, give us a more clear definition of this
translation.
I am glad that God doent allow biggitory in the body, this is not Jesus nor Gods
heart.
Lets Look at Jesus actions, since He is who we are to reflect, Mary learned with
them at Jesus feet, it was Mary, at the empty tomb, and Mary who received that
He had risen with faith.Mary had been on Jesus inner circle.
My husband is saved, he reflects Jesus in all that he does and hates biggitory
of any type.
I have been called od God to preach and a woman.
I love that it is your call to help hurting men, this is great, but God is no
respector of persons, neither male nor female.
A man that demands to have sumission does not have love, We love Jesus,
therefore we want His heart, in us always/.
So many men use summision to beat or abuse or make slaves out of their wives
because they want to control them. Control is in every pray circle cosidered
witchcraft...and not a Godly action.
True love and freedom in Jesus Christ allows us to love Jesus and to have His
heart, Sumission means to be under ones mission. Not under ones feet.
During the fall away of men from the churches women being ordianed to take their
place, These women were Holy Spirit filled and Churches grew under their
leadership. Two name just a few Salvation Army, And Four Square Gosple...
If a womans calling and anoitting is more than her husbands, God will call her
to the front, ie..Marlyin Hickey, whos husband is still a minister.
Joan of Ark was burned at the stake as a witch, but was indeed a spirit filled
christian who loved the lord...And Fought battles as a man would, do your
research, God does not only call women He anoitts them into Ministery and
leadership.
To me any person who is bound up in biggitory is hurting for a deeper
relationship with Jesus.
God bless you keep up the good work with men, but biggitory is a sin and if you
want to call this a rebuke then so be it.A pastor can rebuke.
Biggitory keeps one from fullfilling what Jesus said to love one another...
It is so much more than that, James and I are so in love with each other and
with Jesus, To most it would seem like it couldnt be so good, and it is...In
Jesus
Becareful of religion and religious spirits because they destroy and are not of
Jesus.Jesus is the way, the life, the truth.

Please
note in all of these posts Who was it that addressed BOTH sides of this
issue and who was it that only addressed ONE side?

I
would like to remind each of you that this is very typical of feminist in that
they will not discuss the real issues. Just as the National Organization
of Women only want equal rights for "women" Most feminist are
only looking out for the interest of one group. There are a few that are
opening their eyes and are speaking out for true equality and if You are one of
these, I applaud you.

I also
remind each of us that it is by following BIBLICAL principals that we will
end the problem of abuse from BOTH sides. The Bible is very firm
that a wife is to be submissive to her own husband and that husbands are to love
their wives

There is a way that
seemeth right unto a man, (or woman) but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Pro 16:25