About Bertha of Morvois (Fictitious Person)

Her existence is uncertain. The wife of Héribert de Vermandois is unknown. She is listed as Bertha, daughter of Guerri de Morvois in a 12th-century chronicle from Waulsort abbey, that drew on epic literature to aggrandize its founder's lineage (Peter Stewart in soc.genealogy.medieval, June 28, 2004).

She is listed as Beatrice of Morvois, the daughter of Guerri I, count of Morvois, and Eve of Rousillon in the unreliable Roderick W. Stuart, Royalty for Commoners (2d ed., 1992), page 194, citing *The Journal of the Society of Genealogists* (London, 1911- ) and G. Andrews Moriarty as authorities.

Marriage 1 Herbert I of Vermandois b: ABT 0848 in of Vermandois, Neustria

Children

1. Has No Children Beatrice de Vermandois b: ABT 0880 in of Vermandois, Neustria
2. Has Children de Vermandois b: ABT 0882 in of Vermandois, Neustria
3. Has No Children Herbert II of Vermandois b: ABT 0884 in of Vermandois, Neustria

The name of the wife of Comte Héribert is not known. However, a "Comtesse Liedgardis", different from the daughter of Comte Héribert [II], is named who could have been his wife[1275]. If this is correct, the necrology of Reims which records the death "VI Kal Jun" of "Letgardis comitissa"[1276], may refer to the same person[1277].

According to the Histoire de Guise, Albert Comte de Vermandois constructed the abbey of Saint-Michel at Rochefort in 945 "d'accord avec la comtesse Hérésinde sa femme", while in 947 Hérésinde founded the nearby Benedictine convent of Bucilly[1278]. The source assumes that this refers to Albert Comte de Vermandois, but his supposed marriage to Hérésinde is not mentioned by Settipani[1279].

According to the introduction to the Cartulaire de l'abbaye de Bucilly, Bucilly was founded by "Gerberge, femme d'Albert I Comte de Vermandois" although it notes that "certains auteurs ont voulu faire remonter [sa foundation] à la libéralité de Hersinde femme d'Herbert Comte de Vermandois morte en 901"[1280].

No other reference has been found to Hérésinde being the wife of Comte Héribert ]I].

Comte Héribert [I] & his wife had four children:

1. HERIBERT [II] ([880]-23 Feb 943, bur Saint Quentin). None of the sources so far consulted states explicitly that Heribert [II] and his sister Beatrix were the children of Heribert [I] but this looks probable. He succeeded his father in [900/907] as Comte de Meaux, de Soissons et de Vermandois.

2. BEATRIX de Vermandois ([880/83]-after 26 Mar 931). None of the sources so far consulted state explicitly that Heribert [II] and his sister Beatrix were the children of Heribert [I] but this looks probable. Her birth date range is estimated from her eldest daughter giving birth to her own first child in [915]. m ([897]) as his second wife, ROBERT Marquis en Neustrie, son of ROBERT “le Fort” Marquis en Neustrie & his wife --- ([860]-killed in battle near Soissons 15 Jun 923). Comte de Paris 898. He was elected 22 Jun 922 as ROBERT I King of France.

3. [daughter [ADELA]. Jackman suggests[1285] that the wife of Graf Gebhard [Konradiner] was the daughter of Héribert [I] Comte de Vermandois, although this appears supported only by onomastic indications. The name of Graf Gebhard's wife is not given explicitly in the sources. However, an "Adela" is named in a name-list in the Reichenau memorial book dated [926/32] which appears to include members of the Konradiner family, Jackman suggesting that she is well placed in the list to be Graf Gebhard's wife[1286], although this is not the only possible interpretation of the text. m GEBHARD Graf im Ufgau, son of EBERHARD Graf in der Ortenau [Konradiner] & his wife Wiltrud --- (-after 15 Jan 947).]

4. [daughter [CUNIGUNDIS] ([890/900]-after 943). The Vermandois origin of Graf Udo's wife is suggested by the fact that Flodoard refers to the wife of "Uddone [frater Hermanno]" as amita of "Hugo [de Vermandois Archbishop of Reims]"[1287]. The name of Graf Udo's wife is not given explicitly in the sources. However, a "Cunegundis" is named in a name-list in the Reichenau memorial book dated [926/32] which appears to include members of the Konradiner family, Jackman suggesting that she is well placed in the list to be Graf Gebhard's wife[1288], although this is not the only possible interpretation of the text. Her birth date range is estimated from her estimated marriage date. m ([915]) UDO Graf in der Wetterau, son of GEBHARD Graf in der Wetterau [Konradiner] & his wife Hidda --- (-12 Dec 949).]

"Girard was the son of Leuthard I de Paris and his wife Grimhilde. Girard's wife Bertha was the daughter of Hugh de Tours and Ava de Morvois. Girard and Bertha had a daughter Eva who married Wilderich I de Morvois (819-865). They had a granddaughter Bertha (862-97) that would have been married to Herbert I de Vermandois."

Bertha de Morvois was a noblewoman from the second half of the ninth century. Nominally, she is from Morvois (Pagus Mauripensis) at Pont-sur-Seine.

It is said that she is the wife of Herbert I, Comte de Vermandois (a web investigation on this using the keyword Morvois shows no sources, and even different information about who was her parents). The details of her being the wife of Herbert given from literature are considered controversial:

1. Erich Brandenburg writes in his "Descendants of Charlemagne" that Herbert's wife is unknown. 2. "Medieval Genalogy" between Herbert I and Herbert II indicates that Adele Meaux, heiress of Graf Theutbert, is Herbert I's wife, but does not give a source. 3. In the European family trees, Volume II, of 1984, registered in Plate 10 (Robertians) that the wife of King Robert I of France, Beatrice de Vermandois (d. March, after 931), daughter of Comte de Vermandois Herbert I (Charlemagne) and Berthe (de Morvois), and other references (Volume I.1, 2005, Table 4 and Table 7 - Carolingian - and Table 8 - Conradines) do not consider her to be his wife.

If the assumption is correct for their marriage (as the European family trees seem to indicate), she had a number of children with Herbert, through which she moves to the center of Central European Genealogy:

1. Herbert II (probably 880, to 23 February 943) 900/907 Comte de Meaux, Soissons, et Vermandois, 907 Abbot of St-Medard in Soissons, buried in St-Quentin. Married before 21 May 907 to Adela, daughter of Duke Robert of Neustria (later in 922, Robert I King of France - Capetian) 2. Beatrix (probably 886, d. after 26 March 931), married in 895 to Robert Duke of Neustria (d. 923) from 922 was Robert I King of France (Capetian) 3. Daughter (married to Graf Gebhard von Ufgau of the Conradines in 940), d. after 15 January 947 4. Daughter (married Graf Udo of Wetterau of the Conradines) died 949.

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Herbert I, Count of Vermandois From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He married Bertha de Morvois. They had the following: Herbert II of Vermandois (c. 880-943) Béatrice of Vermandois (c. 880-931), married King Robert I of France. Cunigunde of Vermandois (d. 943) Adele of Vermandois Berenger of Vermandois, Count of Bayeaux whose grandson was Conan I of Rennes.

This profile is the result of multiple ongoing merges between entries of many family trees. Interested parties are encouraged to edit together the various text blocks into a rational whole. As an historic figure, the privacy should be open or public at all times, if it is not please ask a manager to correct it.

This person was created through the import of todaysged.GED on 03 April 2011. The following data was included in the gedcom. You may wish to edit it for readability.