May be a dumb question. If there is no “I” how can you extend Mudita for yourself? It depend on your advancement, I think. However in Metta Bhavana, I was instructed to extend Metta towards myself too. Mudita towards yourself can lead to one of the fetters- Mana, I think.

SarathW wrote:May be a dumb question. If there is no “I” how can you extend Mudita for yourself? It depend on your advancement, I think.

Not a dumb question, but I'd suggest that perhaps mudita, metta etc. aren't "extended" per se - rather they are simply felt or experienced as a state of mind. Any matter of "extended" is a matter of technique, rather than anything inherent in the states of mind themselves.

If you do interpret them as being states of mind, whether the supposed object (and let's not forget that objects are anatta too!) underpinning that feeling is classifiable as "internal" or "external" would be a secondary concern at best. This would also seem compatible with the Abhidhammic mind-state model which does not differentiate in such a way between the internal and external.

Metta,Retro.

"When we transcend one level of truth, the new level becomes what is true for us. The previous one is now false. What one experiences may not be what is experienced by the world in general, but that may well be truer. (Ven. Nanananda)

“I hope, Anuruddha, that you are all living in concord, with mutual appreciation, without disputing, blending like milk and water, viewing each other with kindly eyes.” (MN 31)

Thanks for the helpful discussions. As I understand, the Dhamma practice is a step-by-step process. We first need to wash away the grossest "sand" and not to harm others; jealousy/covetousness directed toward others is more a grosser "sand" we need to get rid of than the finer "sand" of discontent directed toward ourselves, for the practice of non-cruelty/non-harming.

By the way, I'd appreciate an English translation of the following, if possible:

++++++++++++++++This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

There is freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning. If there were not this freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning, then escape from that which is birth, becoming, making, conditioning, would not be known here. -- Ud 80

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.People live in one another’s shelter.

"But here some woman or man is not envious, he does not envy, begrudge or harbor envy about others' gain, honor, veneration, respect, salutations and offerings. Due to having performed and completed such kammas, on the dissolution of the body, after death, he reappears in a happy destination... If instead he comes to the human state, he is influential wherever he is reborn. This is the way that leads to influence, that is to say, not to be envious, not to envy, begrudge or harbor envy about others' gain, honor, veneration, respect, salutations and offerings.

I would like to recommend a close study of SN 46.62-6 in this connection; of the possible ways to develop the factors for awakening, these five together show that the factors for awakening are to be developed alongside the brahmaviharas, as well as anapanasati. Relevant here, therefore, is the idea of developing the factors for awakening alongside mudita.

Pervading the surround is a description of practice we are familiar with; splicing this together with the factors for awakening doesn't seem to come up in conversations about the brahmaviharas very often (if at all?), but in any event there is no self/other talk when the factors are discussed in this way, and I thought it might help us zero in on a practical approach.

Possibly off-topic?

"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

daverupa wrote:I would like to recommend a close study of SN 46.62-6 in this connection; of the possible ways to develop the factors for awakening, these five together show that the factors for awakening are to be developed alongside the brahmaviharas, as well as anapanasati. Relevant here, therefore, is the idea of developing the factors for awakening alongside mudita.

This is very natural. One develops remembrance (sati) of mudita, discerns accordingly the mental behaviour (dhamma-vicaya), applies four right efforts (viriya), and enters jhanas (piti, passadhi, samadhi, upekkha) - much like described in Dvedhavitakka sutta and Mahanama sutta:

At any time when a disciple of the noble ones is recollecting the Tathagata, his mind is not overcome with passion, not overcome with aversion, not overcome with delusion. His mind heads straight, based on the Tathagata. And when the mind is headed straight, the disciple of the noble ones gains a sense of the goal, gains a sense of the Dhamma, gains joy connected with the Dhamma. In one who is joyful, rapture arises. In one who is rapturous, the body grows calm. One whose body is calmed experiences ease. In one at ease, the mind becomes concentrated.