Hypothetical situation - what would you do?

This is a discussion on Hypothetical situation - what would you do? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Obey the law.
As a concealed permit holder, you are only legally permitted to use deadly force if you believe your life, or the life ...

As a concealed permit holder, you are only legally permitted to use deadly force if you believe your life, or the life of someone else, is in imminent danger. You are expected to exercise this option as a last resort, when all other options have been exhausted (e.g., escape, calling 911, etc.)

If you're dealing with an uncertain situation, ASSUME NOTHING. That scruffy-looking guy pointing a gun at a man in a suit could be an undercover cop making a legal arrest.

As a concealed permit holder, you are only legally permitted to use deadly force if you believe your life, or the life of someone else, is in imminent danger. You are expected to exercise this option as a last resort, when all other options have been exhausted (e.g., escape, calling 911, etc.)

If you're dealing with an uncertain situation, ASSUME NOTHING. That scruffy-looking guy pointing a gun at a man in a suit could be an undercover cop making a legal arrest.

To the first portion of highlighted text: I would say that to most people you are "expected" to do what you could to stop him. Violence DOES NOT need to be your last resort. Running away and letting 50 people get murdered may be the right choice for you, for me it would haunt me for the rest of my life. We must each answer to the law first and then to ourselves. YMMV.

To the second portion: In no way is your example close to what the OP presented. In THIS thread we are talking about a guy in a molle vest wearing a hockey mask with a hood up and armed with an AK/AR while walking through Macy's. This is not an ambiguous situation, it is quite clear that this is a killer on his way to do murder. If you don't agree then I question your judgement.

As a concealed permit holder, you are only legally permitted to use deadly force if you believe your life, or the life of someone else, is in imminent danger. You are expected to exercise this option as a last resort, when all other options have been exhausted (e.g., escape, calling 911, etc.)

If you're dealing with an uncertain situation, ASSUME NOTHING. That scruffy-looking guy pointing a gun at a man in a suit could be an undercover cop making a legal arrest.

My state laws say nothing about using lethal force as a last resort. Anything from witnessing a forcible felony to mass murder gives me the right to use lethal force. The law here says nothing about "...but make sure you call 911 first, and try to escape first if you can".

Hypothetical situation - what would you do?

The OP stated that YOU ARE ALONE! Your family, friends, dogs and cats are all at home safely tucked in for the night.
This isn't about how you will react while you are with others.
It is just YOU, ALONE.

Yep , you and my former Marine buddy Cunningham :
Cunningham was in line at the fuel desk at the PILOT truckstop in Paulsboro ,NJ to pay for the fuel he had just pumped in his rig .Henoticed that the 'greasy looking dude with the greasy dreadlocks' in front of him holding Twinkies in one hand and a super size coffee in the other was packing . Marine Corps took over ! Don't Think ! ACT!
260 lbs of Cunningham screamed GUN! and tackled the 150lb scumbag . They knocked over 4 display racks and scattered customers everywhere . Cunningham got him to the floor and secured the weapon . That's when he felt the cold muzzle of a 9mm against his temple and heard the command "DON'T MOVE".
Next question was directed to the perp under Cunningham . "What's going on, Bernie?" "Get this big s.o.b. off me and we'll figure this out ."
The two undercover narc's were very reasonable about the whole situation when it was sorted out . They respected him for wanting to be a hero and didn't take him to jail . The PILOT manager didn't ask for compensation for damages from the 'wannabe hero'. AND he didn't get his head blown off for instigating a situation because he didn't think .
Hope this long post got a point across .

There's a big difference between a masked man with an AR/AK walking through a mall and a guy in a gas station with his hands full of twinkles and a gun on his hip.

Hypothetical situation - what would you do?

Originally Posted by atctimmy

I may be in the minority here but if I saw a man with an AK wearing a molle vest and a hockey mask walking through Sears, the food court or anywhere else in the mall. I would go to code red immediately. If I had the ability I would put him down. IMO it would certainly qualify as a soon to be mass shooter. I think the "reasonable man" could only conclude that this was a murderer on his way to do murder. BANG!

From a tactical standpoint I would do my best to not blow my cover until I could shoot him multiple times in the back from as close as possible.

Im no cop. And as I read the OP post the man is dressed and armed to fit a mass shooter but has done nothing to warrent taking him out etc etc.
Im normally alone when someplace like a mall wally world etc. I could not live with the thought that I let a lot of innocents die.
That being said at this point there is nothing legal to do until HE does something to warrant taking action.
Personally I would if possible position myself near enough for a sure head shot, remaining un noticed if at all possible try to blend in and watch. IF he does have bad intentions my whipping out a cell phone will be first on his list of what to look for.
IF he then proceeds to go ahead with what I think he intends to do I would take the shot. If it is me he turns on I would much rather be close to him than far away negating the advangtage of the rifle vs pistol at least for the first shot. Actually closer the better. All that being said one would never be able to know exactly how to plan for this. Nothing goes to plan and being able to adapt on the fly is your best strength. Simply leaving innocents to face their fate, children, women, elderly I do not believe I could do and live with myself. But thats just me

I am liking the responses I'm seeing. Looks as if most of us has thought this through, that is call the pro's keep the subject in sight.

Dosen't look like anyone that is on this board that carrys a handgun wants to hurry into a gunfight with a rifleman.

Sensible approach I'd say.

Sensible approach? It's a sensible approach to let innocent people die when YOU could do something about it? What's sensible in that?! Of course I want to go home to my family at the end of the day, but I want everybody else to be able to go home to their families, too. Would your decision be different if it was Sandy Hook instead of Clackamass? Would you let 20 little first graders die just so you could make sure you were safe? Would you just call 911 and be a good witness while children were being slaughtered? I can't imagine anybody would let that happen while armed, so why would it be any different if the potential victims were older than 7 years.

And I don't care if he's holding a rifle, a handgun, a shotgun, a bow and arrow, an AT-4, or flippin' ninja stars. That doesn't change how accurate I am with my firearm, or how lethal it is. Gunfight with a rifleman? I'll take my chances of getting in a gunfight with a rifleman over letting innocent, defenseless people die any day. Call me a cowboy or a wanna be Rambo. Call me foolish or insensible. But I consider multiple lives more valuable than my one.

It's nice to know that if the shooting starts, there will be a large groups of armed men who turn tail and let others get killed.
Way to have someone's back bro!

Originally Posted by CharlesMorri

Don't drop the soap big guy!

@ comment 1: Once the shooting starts it gets a lot tougher to stop a guy with a rifle.

In reply to comment #2: I made a decision as to what I'd do under the circumstances. I also believe that I could articulate my reasons for that decision to responding LEOs or to a jury. We all make decisions in life and if I went to prison for this one then so be it. IMO, the way I'm reading this scenario, there wouldn't be jail time even if I was wrong. "Reasonable man", look it up.

Hypothetical situation - what would you do?

Originally Posted by atctimmy

In THIS thread we are talking about a guy in a molle vest wearing a hockey mask with a hood up and armed with an AK/AR while walking through Macy's. This is not an ambiguous situation, it is quite clear that this is a killer on his way to do murder. If you don't agree then I question your judgement.

I was reading the story on the Clackamas Mall shooting and it got me thinking.

If I have the story right this guy walks through a Macy's with an AK (or AR), I am assuming slung, in a hood with a hockey mask and MOLLE vest on. Some people noticed him and thought it was a costume. You know the rest of the story... (even how a guy with a ccw arguably helped end it)

My question is...your there,by yourself with your CCW, and see the guy walking through the store. What do you do?

So atctimmy lines up with Northnick on AK/AR, hood, hockey mask, and MOLLE vest. Where'd he get the description wrong?

Hypothetical situation - what would you do?

Originally Posted by atctimmy

@ comment 1: Once the shooting starts it gets a lot tougher to stop a guy with a rifle.

In reply to comment #2: I made a decision as to what I'd do under the circumstances. I also believe that I could articulate my reasons for that decision to responding LEOs or to a jury. We all make decisions in life and if I went to prison for this one then so be it. IMO, the way I'm reading this scenario, there wouldn't be jail time even if I was wrong. "Reasonable man", look it up.

Yeah.. Reasonable man who shoots someone in the back of the head..
Give it a shot and I promise to visit you in jail! 👍