Update: Habs development camp continues in Brossard

Half of the Canadiens development camp stretches Wednesday morning on a soccer field of the Bell Sports Complex in Brossard.Dave Stubbs photo

The Canadiens’ annual development camp is in Day 3 of five on Wednesday, with a slight change in plans:

The scheduled morning on-ice workouts were scrubbed in favour of an off-ice session, with the 50 or so players returning to their hotel before returning for a 4 p.m. scrimmage.

The camp continues Thursday with morning on-ice work and a 4 p.m. scrimmage, and concludes Friday morning with a 9:30 a.m. scrimmage that will welcome fans to the grandstands instead of upstairs behind the glass, overlooking the rink.

I wrote a little article on the oakland situation baseball wise.
We in Montreal should understand and have sympathy towards Oakland and the lease issues they are having with the city. We all know what its like to hear about how we’ll lose our team. Here’s what I had to say about Oaklands situation

I hope Argentina wins within 120 minutes. They’ve carried the play, run their a$$e$ off. I wanted the Dutch to earn their way into the final, have it all European, have Brazil play Argentina for South American bragging rights. Now I want the two best on play.

Item #1 Sound and Light show on Parliament Hill. Bring a blanket to sit on and some snacks, and experience this wholly unique, and truly Canadian, event.
Don’t miss this free, bilingual show. Presented nightly in Canada’s Capital from July 8 through September 6, 2014.
July 8 to August 16, 10 pm. Guaranteed spectacular!
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Item#2.
Jul 11, 2014 – Jul 13, 2014

Osgoode Medieval Festival
5673 Osgoode Main Street, Ottawa
Attend the 7th annual festival and enjoy a medieval market, a medieval feast, a creative arts competition and more!http://www.osgoodemedievalfestival.com
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Item#3:Jul 13, 2014
Classic Cars
Cumberland Heritage Village Museum, Cumberland
See vintage vehicles and participate in the Pit Stop Challenge: find out if you can change a tire, refuel an engine and wash a windshield in record time.
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Of course if P.K signs while you are here.. come join the HOLY Cow..he signed for that_______________ drink up I’ll be having.

It is Hope beach on Saturday this weekend at Mooneys bay park. There will be a bunch of volleyball games going on and Matthew Good band performing, also we have Bluesfest going on.
Not sure if your kids would care for either though…?

“I think I may have found a way for us to get Griffey and Bonds, and we really won’t have to give up much” -Costanza

I appreciate the posts from our habs brother from the Ukraine. (Respect the unrelenting support for Plekanec)

But as for concern on and off the ice of Evander… I would ask UH how do you feel about the balance in reporting concerning PK.

Evander is from affluent West Van, and he happens to be black and 22. What are the perceptions and expectations of black man with success, amongst his peers and outsiders, I do not know. I would suggest that they are steeped and layered, more so than for a white player, let me qualify that a Canadian / US player whom is white. Hockey is still highly fraternal by nature. Their is a language, and social mores that speak to this. Those that are not invited to that club, or at least to its inner circle, either accept their position in it, adapt to a role in it, or gods be damned try to be a star. Those stars come under scrutiny, and stories seem to be magnified when a stereotype can be re-enforced. Example bling, example flair, example snarl against the establishment.

It is shameful, don’t believe the hype, we often believe that these exceptional athletes are and should follow a personality mold made and formed 50 years ago by predominately white working class boys, playing and being exploited by rich white owners.

Montreal the city would straighten him out, he would flower in this city.

I have no hate hate for white people nor Canadians, I am one. What I have witnessed with PK as someone whom lives in the greater MTL area, has made me look at hockey differently the last 5 years or so, I have been following hockey closely for nearly 40.

There are great things about the old school, bring that into the present, we don’t need to bring it all for fear of losing the good parts.

Did not know Kane was black (never mentioned by Wpg. media) till it was mentioned above (tells you how much I follow the Jets). But he can’t keep his mouth shut and his twitter off and is wearing out his welcome in Winnipeg. Good player with potential to be very good but seems to have a real bad attitude off the ice IMO.

Guess you’re right I wasn’t born in the Canada, Mais, je suis nai au Canada. 😎

Thinking a probable 40 goal winger signed for 4 more years, with open movement is worth, one of our top 3 centres, a B+ level D prospect ( not Tinordi), another B level prospect, and a 3 rd rounder next year, or a first in 2016.

PS. Tons of Ukrainians in Saskatchewan where I am from, have you been ?

So if a team gets real lucky and drafts 4/5 players that are the calibre of PK,Kane or Toews over a 6-7 year period..there is no way they can keep all of them. PK is getting 8m+ after 3.5 seasons…If you are the best league in the world than each team should be able to sign the best available talent for their 23 man roster…The cap downgrades the product…

It does not downgrade the total amount of talent but it does spread it around, and stops the top 3 or 4 teams from spending 100 million in salary to just buy a championship.

The other thing it does is ensure that in order to win, you have to have a great management team, any one of us could at least make the semi-finals if we could spend twice as much as everyone else, to compete under the equal terms takes skill.

But this way a lot of better players will not make the 23 man roster over lesser players and will go to Europe or not even get contracts…I know the NHL wishes parity but why should a team get punished if they have great drafts..Imagine trying to sign all the players on the Oiler,Habs and Islander dynasties…The Hawks when they won their first cup had to get rid of key players…

We need a good left winger for the 2nd line and promote Galchenyuk to center. we’ll never find out how good he can be at center if we don’t use him there. as a left winger, he’s average and forget about the 20 year old thing, he’s either got it or he don’t.

That would actually be the smart thing to do. IMO, Toronto, NJ and Ottawa will all be just good enough to get outside the draft lottery, but not good enough to make the playoffs. That, IMO, is the worst case scenario. Of course, nobody sets off with the expectation of losing to inherit a great pick, however a generational talent such as McDavid could turn the prospects of a franchise around in a very timely manner. Talk about a major consolation prize.

Actually, now that I have lent it further thought, my best case scenario (which, ironically, if the worst case scenario for the Leafs and Senators) would be to see them finish 29-30 overall (I really don’t care about the order) and manage to lose the draft lottery under the new provisions to be introduced in 2015.

So, who would we rather have, Price or Schneider? Keep in mind, they are both going to make almost the same amount of money. Just goes to show how strong the contract for Price is. Of course, he will break the bank when he comes up for renewal. The best players will always find a way to get paid.

Makes me think that PK is going to rewrite the ceiling for defencemen. I won’t like it, but I can’t fight it either.

With the signing of Toews and Kane to those mega-deals, the time may be optimal to trade for a guy like Sharp from the Hawks. It would seem the Hawks will have to dump salary somewhere to get under the max and a deal that does not include roster players could be beneficial to the Habs. I realize the deals do not kick in till 2015-16 season, but the Hawks are over the limit already for this year so they will need to move someone for picks/prospects. Sharp would be just what is required to get the Habs to the SCF next year.
“man, I love winnin’; you know, it’s like better than losin’?”-
Ebby Calvin “Nuke” Laloosh

True, but the only reason Chicago might consider such a trade is because next year’s draft is supposed to be historically deep; it’s for that same reason that Bergevin, who is trying to stock the cupboards for the long-term, will be unlikely to trade a first round pick for 2015.

(That said, Sharp is a 30 goal scorer with an affordable contract, so who knows…)

The ESPN commentator for the World Cup (he’s absolutely brilliant) was on TSN690. Gave an unvarnished analysis of Brazil’s soccer; their qualification bracket; their selection process; their lack of quality… least among the players selected… etc.

And all this from a man who idolizes the culture/history of Brazil’s soccer because he appreciates their contribution to the beautiful game’.

One great observation he made.

It would be great if Holland beats Argentina. First history will be made European winners on S.A soil… and also it would be a refreshingly intriguing consolation match which would be played at a competitive intensity… Brazil vs Argentina.

I am crossing my fingers for this. If only to see who’s left out off and who’s inserted into Brazil’s starting 11.

The World Cup will have an exciting end were the Finals to be Germany/Netherlands and consolation Brazil/Argentina.

Max is very much a bargain at his current contract, but that doesn’t automatically mean it would be dumb to trade him, just that any trade involving him needs to be especially favorable to the Habs since the opponent is not only getting a premium offensive player but great value for the cap hit. IMO he should not be traded because the Habs have lost enough offense already and he is due for a breakthrough playoff, and young enough that he could still have one. A breakthrough playoff for Max could well lead to a playoff run that will make the 2014 playoff seem like small potatoes

When you have assets like that you need to sign them.You can’t take the chance of losing a player like that for nothing. Eventually one of them might have to be traded as that is alot of money, but you will get assets back. Like when Tampa had St.Louis, Richards and Lecavalier signed. THey eventually knew they had too much money invested in them 3 but they just traded them for other assets.

Aren’t these two deals for the hawks a team killer? How does Bowman move forward and make deals with such a huge chunk of his cap tied up in two players? I can’t see Chicago keeping/attracting any of their big name players unless the cap goes up at a big margin every year. I could be wrong but I think these two contracts will effect the hawks going forward for years to come.

The cap is projected to be 80mil within 2 years. Within 4 years those deals will be run of the mill (for All-World players like Kane and Toews anyhow). Plus, the deals don’t actually kick in until next season.

IMO, the contracts may slightly hamper them for a season or two, but that’s it. I’ve seen a few on twitter mention that the 6mil they are giving Crawford is a worse hit. I don’t disagree.

I just hope this tempers the “outrage” that some will undoubtedly show when P.K. gets 9.

I doubt the cap will move up that high. The Canadian dollar versus the American dollar will be a large determining factor.
If the NHLPA had included the new Canadian TV deal this season, the cap would be at $71mill, only $2 mil more.

I love MaxPac on our team, I don’t want to trade him. Having said that, Kane has played 324 games, 99 goals, 101 assists. Max has played 319 games , 107 goals, 106 asissts. Kane is two years younger, it isn’t an insult to Max to be compared to Kane, unless were talking about dining habits and the willingness to tip and pay the bill.

As a Habs fan, I’d take that every day. You get the best player in the deal, there are still plenty of D-men up and coming, and only 1 guy off the current roster going the other way (not named Max/PK/Price)

As a Jets fan, I’d call it a good return and hope Tinordi makes the 2nd pairing, or hope that De la Rose is a top six winger, or hope that the 1st rounder is in a good year.

A lotta hope. That’s what you’re getting in that deal. Not much certainty. That’s where I think the disconnect from the Hab-fan side is.

If you look at career stats it is close, but Max’s stats are skewed by a slow first few years with limited playing time. I look at last year and see Max as a premier goalscorer in the league, which is the hardest thing to acquire. I don’t put Kane in that category.

Taking into account intangibles like cap hit and character/leadership, I believe it is not an insult to compare them, but Max is in a higher class than Kane right now.

Don’t get me wrong, I want Max and won’t trade him straight up for Kane. But Kane is playing on a not very good team, had the poison of being a Thrasher for two years when no one in Atlanta knew they still had a hockey team.

The only area kane is better in than Pacioretty is toughness and a bigger mouth that’s why they have problems with him in Winnipeg. The Habs don’t need that type of player. If you remember back, the Habs got rid of players like that a distraction in the dressing room.

HiB pointed out that the original team gets penalized on a front loaded contract if a player retires early.

As per capgeek:

RECAPTURE CALCULATOR RESULTS

If Marian Hossa retires or defects in the 2017 off-season (age 38 as of July 1 that year), and was traded to the Montreal Canadiens in the 2014 off-season, following is an estimated breakdown of the recapture penalties for the involved teams.
Team Benefit Penalty
Chicago Blackhawks (2017-18 through 2020-21) $13,125,000 $3,281,250
Montreal Canadiens (2017-18 through 2020-21) $3,975,000 $993,750

IMPORTANT NOTES [ Edited June 2, 2013 ]: Teams do not receive a credit for net negative cap benefit (where cap hit exceeds salary over the course of the contract prior to retirement). However, in calculating net “cap advantage,” teams do receive a credit for seasons in which cap hit exceeds salary … Calculations for players who have been traded during the season are rough estimates based on best information available and may differ from actual league numbers.

To compare Kane and Toews to P.K. in any way is delusionnal. It actually plays against P.K. because those are two long time proven veterans and P.K. is still in the learning curve with quite a few things to work on.

Don`t get me wrong because i have been known to say that i think P.k. is the best player we have had since…since…since…Chelios? Lafleur ? Anyway cannot even compare with those because P.K. is unique.

And i will go on and saying that Chicago will regret those deals as MTL will regret P.K. `s because they always do . Most of the big bucks deal signed in the league got to be a burden at a certain point but the G.M. s will never learn.

It really isn’t delusional, though, is it? You need a different word. Delusional means divorced from reality.

First comparing an active hockey player to another active hockey player is perfectly rational. You can even compare John Scott to Steven Stamkos if you want. It depends on the result of your comparison, but you could decide that after due consideration Steven Stamkos gives you a better bang for the buck. The exercise might be deemed superfluous. It wouldn’t be delusional.

Even something like comparing John Scott to an office chair wouldn’t be “delusional”. Pointless, difficult, or perhaps even impossible, but not delusional.

Not the best choice of word i admit but not that far off either. I just wanted to say that to say that the standards are set for P.K. with those signatures is off track a bit. Can`t compare those two guys with P.K. We all agree that he will be a star for a long time to come but at this point it remains far fetched to say that he is on the same level as Kane and Toews. In that sense it has nothing to do with reality.

Matt Sekeres of Vancouver TEAM 1040 commented on his interview with Evander Kane yesterday that stirred up the hornet’s nest.

He made the point that Evander was not ambushed, they’d made an ‘appointment’ at breakfast for him to stop by and chat during his round of golf (charity tournament). He also explained that he told him he’d raise the issue of his status as a Jet. When Evander Kane got to the hole the TEAM 1040 guys had their table set up at (players like Cody Franson and Shea Weber also stopped by, and others during the day), he kind of waved at the hosts to ask should he come right over, or putt out. Matt Sekeres says that he’s done enough interviews to know when a player doesn’t want to talk, he kind of doesn’t make eye contact, avoids the interviewer, makes a beeline to somewhere else. This was exactly the opposite situation, Evander seemed eager to talk.

Mr. Sekeres believes that Evander wanted to talk, calculated his response, it was well rehearsed. When the host tried to probe further, Evander waved him off, indicating he didn’t want to say any more, and Matt Sekeres let it drop and moved on.

The host believes that Evander Kane used this platform to send a message, to his GM and team ownership that he’d like his situation resolved, without going too far over a line.

The host continued that Evander is very gracious, a good interview and nice guy to talk to since his days as a Vancouver Giant. He is the biggest donor to the charity he was supporting yesterday, by a wide margin, and has been for years. (The charity is the Michael Cuccione Foundation, to benefit research into childhood cancers.)

Matt Sekeres went further and explored Evander Kane’s side of the question, that he got drafted into the league, with no say into where he was going to play, and locked into an Entry Level Contract that he had no power to negotiate. Added to that is the fact that he was subjected to a franchise relocation, and had to move from Atlanta to Winnipeg with no say in the situation.

So interesting background to the mini-controversy. I thought Matt Sekeres did his job as a reporter by asking the question to Evander that everyone wanted to know, but was receptive to poster Cal’s point that Evander Kane shouldn’t be badgered at a charity gig. I think his explanation allays that concern.

———————————————————————–My sources are unreliable, but their info is fascinating.–Woody Paige

Looks to me like the Jets GM will soon face a decision which could determine how much longer he is employed for. If he trades Kane, he needs to hit a homerun. If all he gets back is more prospects and draft picks with some has been, fans will be all over him.

I trust you read the last paragraph, I was thinking about what you said.

Evander Kane was not ambushed, he didn’t run into a buzzsaw. He knew what was coming, that the question was going to be asked, and seemed to appreciate and look forward to the opportunity to get his point across.

If he didn’t want to be asked that question at a charity event, he could/would have asked that it be off the table when they set up the interview, or just avoided attending the interview table-booth.

I often hold specific reporters, and the occupation in general, in low regard, but in this case Matt Sekeres was ethical, and did his job. He asked the question that every listener would have asked Evander Kane if they had had the opportunity.

As far as asking everyone the same question, that’s not really applicable. The reason he asked that specific player that question is because of the constant rumours swirling around him. Matt Sekeres referred to the fact that Evander ‘liked’ a post on Twitter speculating that he would be traded to Philly. There was a basis for the question, whereas there wouldn’t be if he had interviewed Brendan Gallagher, for example.

Having just checked the last thread, I want to point out for the 36th time that there’s a few of you with absolutely no clue about the value of Evander Kane, and who seem to think you can get goal scoring power forwards with a high-level prospect or 2 and a throw-in goalie or no-name European.

I’ve been watching across multiple sites as people lose their minds trying to get something for less than something. Or else losing their minds that a group of prospects and a first round pick is way too much.

Please try and keep in mind two words: Max Pacioretty. If you wouldn’t trade Max Pacioretty for your x,y,z offer, it’s not going to land Evander Kane.

The Jets have no reason whatsoever, absolutely none, to accept anything less than top value for that player. A few of you seem bent on embarrassing yourselves thinking the Habs have a full house when it’s only 3 of a kind. Please come to your senses.

Even that is too much! Kane has scored but what he has done so far is prove to be a problem child. Pleks, Nygren, and a first. You don’t give away younger bigger forwards who just had a great playoff!
Every team wants size, speed and strength down the middle. Why would Bergevin trade it away? Eller is 25 and is getting better, Pleks is 31 and won’t get better. Most here think Pleks is a player the Habs can’t afford to trade. Let’s see if the folks in Winnipeg share that value!

Jets will want something good for Kane, so we will have to give up something that hurts a little.

I rather keep Pleks than Eller, as I just don’t see Eller able to do what Pleks can the next few years. I think De La Rose might be a good replacement for Eller pretty soon and Chucky could also be moved to center this season with Eller’s departure.

Eller had a nice playoffs, but every year he goes into huge inconsistent slumps and Kane would make us forget him pretty quickly I think.

I respect your opinion and yes, Eller has had slumps, so has DD and it took DD longer to make it to the show! I’ve watched Pleks make passes and plays that I expect from a 4th line plugger with limited hockey sense as well. I think Vanek needed to suck it up, but he made a great point. Pleks is not a play maker. He is great positionally, and can get some points. He is very good at some things, but is not great at any! That is my opinion and it is not popular here. I really wish Bergevin would trade Pleks to see what he can get. Then we would see what value the league puts on him.

I am not ready to trade a 25 year old centre who in the next six years may make us cringe the day we traded him instead of a 31 year old center who we know won’t get any better.

You’re missing the point. bwoar isn’t saying the price tag for Evander Kane would be Max. He’s setting up Max as an equivalency: if you wouldn’t trade Max for the package you’ve cobbled together, neither would the Jets trade Evander Kane for it.

“Max is a clear better offensive player and only a few years older and a better cap hit. trading Max for Kane is a downgrade IMO and there would be no point.”

I thought Boar was proposing a trade for the two, but when stating this, I think it’s clear I don’t put each player on the same level as far as value goes.

@HabsBurlinton. Max had 39 goals last season, Kane 19. It’s a little closer taking games played into consideration. Taking into account Max’s cap hit and what seems to be better character, I don’t put Kane on the same level as Max as far as value.

Eller, Tinordi and 1st would be a steal for Montreal. Gallagher would be closer. It really is a case where you *have* to have an offer you aren’t sure (meaning you just aren’t) comfortable with. Kane is the kind of player who will get those offers. Both GMs involved are gonna come away a bit on edge after this guy is traded, wherever he goes.

Kane and Andrei Kostitsyn have a lot in common. Higher picks, tough, salary, off ice charm, Kostitsyn more of a scorer. Kostitsyn went for a second and a fifth, then was told to stay the gosh-golly-gee away from Nashville.

The top value of Kane may very well be realized within the KHL or another European league of high skill.

Two quick thoughts regarding the Chicago contracts as well as the upcoming Stamkos deal. Chicago will very soon know what it’s like to be the Pens in terms of Crosby/Malkin and the cap albatross they bring.

These new contracts, as well as the eventual Stamkos deal, will set up Subban for a major windfall after he finishes his new arbitration contract. Two years at 7M a season followed by eight years at 10M isn’t out of the question.

BTW, by the time he is 35, Toews will have made $124M in NHL earnings.

2010 Winter Olympics — Best Forward[26]
2010 Stanley Cup Champion
2010 Conn Smythe Trophy winner
Second-youngest to win the Conn Smythe Trophy (22 years, 41 days; only Patrick Roy was younger); youngest Captain to win the Conn Smythe Trophy.
Youngest person to gain entry into the Triple Gold Club (22 years, 41 days at time last component was achieved)
Named full captain of an NHL team after only 64 NHL games; fourth youngest full captain (Landeskog, Crosby, Vincent Lecavalier) in NHL history and quickest by games
One of only six players to win Olympic gold and the Stanley Cup in the same year.
2013 Frank J. Selke Trophy winner
2013 NHL Second All-Star Team
2013 Stanley Cup Champion

Chicago’s not going to remain a power for much longer. They’re pretty much at the cap for next season without 3 defencemen and about 3 forwards. Kane and Toews may be two of the best in the game, but the rest of their lineup is going to be bare.

Four years later, Bennett appears ripped as he launches his pro career. He stands 6-foot tall and tips the scales at close to 200 pounds. Earlier this year, he was recognized as one of the best-conditioned hockey players in the U.S. by an association of strength and conditioning coaches.

Some players really stand to benefit by going to the NCAA and getting four years of development, instead of just two in the CHL.

For example, Brady Vail might have sorted out whatever didn’t please the Canadiens, and been thought worthy of a contract after his senior year.

———————————————————————–My sources are unreliable, but their info is fascinating.–Woody Paige

I wonder what they will do with Pateryn this season? He is eligible for waivers, so they risk losing him for nothing if they send him down again. I guess they’ll decide at training camp, but I would hate to lose him for nothing.

I had no idea he’d bulked up so much. Can he still skate circles around people? That’s still not really very big for a defenseman, but he’s in the realm of passable. He won’t get killed out there at that size. It’s really an exciting time for those of us who love our defense.

Wow, that puts their payroll at approx. 70Million for next season (2015-16) with only 3 of their dmen signed. Stan Bowman now faces the challenge of trimming the rest of the roster throughout the season for next year.

I don’t think he fits our payroll, but someone is going to get Hossa I think, and it may only take draftpick and a prospect with the contract he has.

A $21M cap hit for those 2 is going to make it interesting for the Hawks to come in under the cap in 20015/16. They are already over next season’s cap with those 2 at $12.6M for the last season of their old deal.

Personally, I don’t think this will affect the PK negotiations at all. IMO these two players just set the bar….for players resigning in the next couple of years. They are two of the best players in the world with two stanley cup rings a piece. They are making a little bit more then Ovechkin is now.

PK, although extremely exciting and talented…..he just isn’t at the level of a Kane or Toews. If anything I think this might help Montreal in negotiations…keeping him closer to 8 -8.5 mil/per.

The question is, is PK worth within 2mil of these two guys?

“I think I may have found a way for us to get Griffey and Bonds, and we really won’t have to give up much” -Costanza

PK isn’t in the same league as Kane and Toews as far as accomplisnments and on ice performance.

It will probably settle him in to 8 million for a long term deal, but can’t see him being worth more.

He is a top 3-5 offensive defenseman in the league, but defensively, you could argue he isn’t even top 20. Overall, I would put him as a top 5-10 Dman in the league right now. 8 million is more than fair for that.

I still would like a shorter term deal of about 5 years at 7.5 million. I think that is fair for everyone.

If the Habs give PK more than 8-mil for 8-years we’ll be bringing in mediocre forwards for another 5-years, won’t have money for top line forwards….if worst comes to worst, let him go, Hey, Edmonton let Gretzky go.