That's all well and good but it's extremely unrealistic and nothing but ideology.
I can see us going that way in the very very distant future after a major world event like WW5 or the invention of warp drives and the discovery of some menacing alien race sc-fi shit. But now?? Nothing but bullshit.

I agree that nationalism and patriotism are fucking bullshit but it's also reality. And we live in reality, not fairyland.

Maybe the Earth will catch an asteroid right smack in the Middle-East.

One can dream.

Quote:Our aspirations for the future should be nothing less than what we strive for in the present.

Catchy phrases don't make your argument valid.
I'm all one for dreaming big, but I'm also one for realism.

Quote:How we interpret reality is almost entirely determined by consensus, the only reason that nationalism and patriotism exist is because we let them exist. The same holds true for the government, how would a government stop mass civil disobedience where everyone simply refused to do what the government wanted. Whether it be pay taxes, or serve in the military, or even refuse to acknowledge even the authority of the police officers? The government is powerless in such a scenario, because the government derives power from the people the common denominator.

The only reason the government is in power, is because of our consensus that it should either A. be in power or B. there is nothing we can do about it.

But I hold C. which is I refuse to even acknowledge their sovereignty.

I abandoned them long ago, just like my old religion.

This is what I'm talking about, this is bullshit.
It's fairyland bullshit that has no basis in reality. You're free to think whatever you want but it doesn't make it so.

Yes in theory governments are in power because the people allow it. BUT why do the people allow it? The people allow it because we need governments to handle things like fire departments, street lights etc..

And also, nobody is gonna rise up to overthrow the governments of the world to establish some sort of fairyland new world order bullshit. That's never gonna happen. Yes, in theory it could, but a lot of things in theory could happen. You for example could instantly combust. Doesn't mean it's gonna happen but one can dream.

(23-11-2016 11:40 PM)pablo Wrote: Maybe the Earth will catch an asteroid right smack in the Middle-East.

One can dream.

Quote:Our aspirations for the future should be nothing less than what we strive for in the present.

Catchy phrases don't make your argument valid.
I'm all one for dreaming big, but I'm also one for realism.

Quote:How we interpret reality is almost entirely determined by consensus, the only reason that nationalism and patriotism exist is because we let them exist. The same holds true for the government, how would a government stop mass civil disobedience where everyone simply refused to do what the government wanted. Whether it be pay taxes, or serve in the military, or even refuse to acknowledge even the authority of the police officers? The government is powerless in such a scenario, because the government derives power from the people the common denominator.

The only reason the government is in power, is because of our consensus that it should either A. be in power or B. there is nothing we can do about it.

But I hold C. which is I refuse to even acknowledge their sovereignty.

I abandoned them long ago, just like my old religion.

This is what I'm talking about, this is bullshit.
It's fairyland bullshit that has no basis in reality. You're free to think whatever you want but it doesn't make it so.

Yes in theory governments are in power because the people allow it. BUT why do the people allow it? The people allow it because we need governments to handle things like fire departments, street lights etc..

And also, nobody is gonna rise up to overthrow the governments of the world to establish some sort of fairyland new world order bullshit. That's never gonna happen. Yes, in theory it could, but a lot of things in theory could happen. You for example could instantly combust. Doesn't mean it's gonna happen but one can dream.

The people need not rise up to overthrow a government, they need only to turn away. Do you remember what you did with your old religion? (presuming you were once most likely a christian) That's all anyone needs to do, that isn't so much work is it?

I never said that we didn't need a form of government.

So many of the worlds greatest inventions started from just a dream, despite people telling them that it would never happen. Yet happen it did. So you can either dream, or you can be part of it, I like to think I choose to be a part of my dream.

Catchy phrases don't make your argument valid.
I'm all one for dreaming big, but I'm also one for realism.

This is what I'm talking about, this is bullshit.
It's fairyland bullshit that has no basis in reality. You're free to think whatever you want but it doesn't make it so.

Yes in theory governments are in power because the people allow it. BUT why do the people allow it? The people allow it because we need governments to handle things like fire departments, street lights etc..

And also, nobody is gonna rise up to overthrow the governments of the world to establish some sort of fairyland new world order bullshit. That's never gonna happen. Yes, in theory it could, but a lot of things in theory could happen. You for example could instantly combust. Doesn't mean it's gonna happen but one can dream.

The people need not rise up to overthrow a government, they need only to turn away. Do you remember what you did with your old religion? (presuming you were once most likely a christian) That's all anyone needs to do, that isn't so much work is it?

I never said that we didn't need a form of government.

So many of the worlds greatest inventions started from just a dream, despite people telling them that it would never happen. Yet happen it did. So you can either dream, or you can be part of it, I like to think I choose to be a part of my dream.

I've never been religious. Never believed in God or any of that non-sense. Atheist my whole life.

And no that's not how it works.
Turn away? Ok, you stop paying taxes or obeying the law and see how long you stay out of jail.

Inventions? Apples and oranges. Telling some kid he will never grow up to be a fireman is a tad different to saying 7 billion people will unite and rise up to expel all borders in the world. Again, this is what I'm talking about. You're nothing but ideological and have no basis in reality. Your points are stupid and invalid.

(24-11-2016 03:35 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote: The people need not rise up to overthrow a government, they need only to turn away. Do you remember what you did with your old religion? (presuming you were once most likely a christian) That's all anyone needs to do, that isn't so much work is it?

Remember what I said earlier about false equivocations? You still need to work on that.

Comparing walking away from a religion, even in a nation that protects freedom of religion, is not always an easy thing. Not only that, but even when it is relatively easy, that's not an apt comparison. An individual walking away from one religion is vastly different than a large majority of people walking away from... their government? How do they do that? The government is the people. Do just all of the police, county clerks, and tax collectors stay home? How long can the rest of the country go about it's business with a max exodus of the governmental bureaucracy? That would be such a large and messy situation, even if it was entirely nonviolent; and ultimately not at all similar to an individual giving up their former religion.

(24-11-2016 03:35 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote: I never said that we didn't need a form of government.

So many of the worlds greatest inventions started from just a dream, despite people telling them that it would never happen. Yet happen it did. So you can either dream, or you can be part of it, I like to think I choose to be a part of my dream.

That reminds me of something...

Keep an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out.

Dreaming is nice. Dreaming without regards for reality will only disappoint.

(24-11-2016 04:25 AM)earmuffs Wrote: ]I've never been religious. Never believed in God or any of that non-sense. Atheist my whole life.

Quote:And no that's not how it works.
Turn away? Ok, you stop paying taxes or obeying the law and see how long you stay out of jail.

Also I never said to do this on your own, its called civil disobedience en masse.

Quote:Inventions? Apples and oranges. Telling some kid he will never grow up to be a fireman is a tad different to saying 7 billion people will unite and rise up to expel all borders in the world. Again, this is what I'm talking about. You're nothing but ideological and have no basis in reality. Your points are stupid and invalid.

I believe what you're doing right now is appealing to ridicule.

(24-11-2016 04:44 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote: Remember what I said earlier about false equivocations? You still need to work on that.

Comparing walking away from a religion, even in a nation that protects freedom of religion, is not always an easy thing. Not only that, but even when it is relatively easy, that's not an apt comparison. An individual walking away from one religion is vastly different than a large majority of people walking away from... their government? How do they do that? The government is the people. Do just all of the police, county clerks, and tax collectors stay home? How long can the rest of the country go about it's business with a max exodus of the governmental bureaucracy? That would be such a large and messy situation, even if it was entirely nonviolent; and ultimately not at all similar to an individual giving up their former religion.

I've given up to much information already, you should never tell others your trade secrets.

But Religion would be involved, freedom of religion, protected by the government, to overthrow the government. Its the perfect plan.

I feel kinda bad as its my countries foreign policy that primarily created this mess in the first place. I'm torn on the one hand the I am very pro jewish/Israeli everyone rips on the Jews for everything they've always been persecuted and I hate that, on the other hand the pendulum does seem to have swung too far the other way I cannot really choose one way or the other so I haven't voted.