If the Aruba Courts do not want to do anything in the criminal matter of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, then Beth Twitty will as she sues. It has been almost 3 years since Natalee Holloway went missing on Aruba. Since then Aruba has done nothing except make a mockery of the investigation and prosecution of this case. Since Aruba is not willing to prosecute, Beth Holloway will.

As this case goes forward against Joran and the Van der Sloots more public attention will be provided to the case and negative PR for Aruba. If Aruba will not and cares not to find answers for the Holloway/Twitty family and provide “Justice for Natalee”, then the family will. From the very beginning of this case the family has had to take the lead, it appears they will have to again in order to pry answers out of Aruba and the Van der Sloots as to what happened and who is responsible for the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

Beth Twitty, the mother of Natalee Holloway, has summoned the whole family of Joran van der Sloot. Peter R. De Vries and Patrick van der Eem are heard under oath about their role before the court.

That reports the Telegraaf. Joran and his parents have to appear before the court and will be heard under oath about their role in the disappearance of Holloway.

Shock
The summons are part of a series of injunctions, in which the struggle of Twitty now officially has begun. She demands a substantial damage from Joran, a compensation for the “shock damage” that Joran has given her.

Her lawyers, Bram Moszkovwicz and Roger Schmidt, have summoned all the involved, including Peter R. De Vries and Patrick van der Eem. With the questioning under oath Twitty wants to gather evidence needed for the conduct of civil proceedings against Van der Sloot.

Psychiatrist ? Joran van der Sloot has put himself under treatment at a psychiatric institution, according to the newspaper. Doings so he would like to escape his questioning.

Read all about the mysterious disappearance of Natalee Holloway and the confessions of Joran van der Sloot in the dossier (Hat Tip Translation: EURobert)

Comments

My prayers are with Beth, hoping that she will get some justice and learn the fate of her beloved daughter; also that she may see the satifaction of the perps getting what they deserve, whoever it may be. This has gone on way too long. This woman needs closure and she needs to have the truth. Good Luck to you and your family.

I was hoping that this is the route Beth would take. I’d pay top buck to sit in the room with all the Sloots to see Paulass sweat, Anita fidget and Joran lie when under oath.

Justice has patience….

misskatie on
April 4th, 2008 11:47 am

You go Beth… God Bless You as you seek answers for Natalie….The whole world is aware of your struggle to obtain the truth… all eyes will be on the vandersloots…. they are going to be forced to answer questions they avoided before as to what happened to natalie.. they will stand accountable…you respresent many parents that have faced the similar situations…YOU ARE THE VOICE OF NATALIE…
GOD BLESS YOU AND YOUR FAMILY
JUSTICE FOR NATALIE

I’m not surprised that Joran checked himself in to an assylum. I think that was the plan all along, either IF he talked or if the family got too close to finding the truth. Maybe Joran IS a loose canon, ready to talk… if it were me, I’d rather get it off my chest.

I hope the Holloways get the justice they seek in this court and finally hear the truth. After all this time, I believe the family knows more about what happened to Natalee than Aruba could imagine. No doubt the finding of several markers in the sea, one being that of a fisherman’s cage with clothes and a skull in it, is a huge break in this case.

The boycott continues….

.

Boycott Aruba!

kaye on
April 4th, 2008 11:52 am

God bless you beth. my prayers are with you, as always. we will be right there with you in spirit hoping and praying that finally natalee can receive her justice. prayers people…..lots of prayers!!

Terri on
April 4th, 2008 12:05 pm

Patti – did they ever say that there was a skull and clothing in the cage that they found? I am in the mindset that they probably found her and if they did, it’s really no ones business but the family’s. At least, I do hope that is what happened.

At the risk of boring everyone twice, I’m going to repost something from the last Natalee thread.

We’re all hoping for the best … but keep in mind all the excitement that the JQK subpoena of Joran and Paulus in New York engendered. Only to yield nothing.

Will this suit, whenever it gets to court, yield answers in Natalee’s case? We all hope so … but the legal route is never certain.

(repost)

Folks, the news about Beth’s lawsuit came out, and we are all agog with hope. Apparently in this case, the suspects can’t be protected from re-interrogation just because they were questioned before by police. And they don’t have the right to lie that Aruba grants suspects.

(Since Aruba law is based on Dutch law, how this works out defies me, but never mind that.)

My point: this is only the first step on yet another journey.

Remember how the media, and we, and everyone were so excited about the surprise that John Q. Kelly threw at the van der Sloots when they came to New York? Remember all the press plaudits that this effort got?

But in the end, the case was thrown out of court owing to a lack of jurisdiction. It may have been a great legal move … it achieved NOTHING.

Let’s not count our chickens before they are hatched, or our legal awards before they are handed down.

As I said before, we mostly agree that there has been, and is, a cover-up on Aruba. Whoever is involved will probably be trying to influence things in this court case. I might be wrong … maybe the Netherlands is going to do its damndest to show that it is not tainted by the Aruba scum.

But maybe not. Karin Janssen is in the Netherlands now, I believe. Jan van der Straaten continues to work for the Dutch on Curacao. Dennis Jacobs is still a detective on Aruba.

Paulus van der Scum still has a brother in the Dutch government. And Aruba still has powerful political connections … even if, as I suspect, many or most of the Dutch political elite would dearly love to flush Aruba down the toilet.

My message: IT IS NOT OVER YET. WE HAVEN’T WON.

And no matter what damages Beth may get … the REAL questions, in my view, are these:

1. What happened to Natalee the night she vanished?
2. Who were responsible, and who have concealed their knowledge of and/or participation in the cover-up? (I use the plural form deliberately.)
3. Where is Natalee, or her remains, now?

Until these three questions are fully answered, and punishment is duly meted out, there will be no end to the Natalee Holloway case.

And, surely, there will be no end to our saying:

“No justice for Natalee…no tourists for Aruba.”

misskatie on
April 4th, 2008 12:31 pm

Wouldnt it be nice to be able to take time to be present in that court room ?
since we heard that it will be open to the public..
I lived in modesto, ca when the scott peterson case was being held… the public’s outcome and outcry was tremendous.. wonder what the response will be there. would be nice if someone was there with signs .. justice for natalie.. not a bad idea natalie sweatshirts…
makes me wonder also how long the process will take… I am sure it will be lengthly as there is so much to adress.. I am willing to bet that the kalpoes are pooping their pants.right about now……. I dont know why joran just doesnt tell what realy happened.. on that crappy island… the laws there are more lax as is the sentencing.. he can finaly tell what happened that day proceed to serve his time and go on with his pitiful life.. they are making this more difficult than it has to be….but I am also thinking that the reason being !!!is that… joran is protecting pauulus… because he played a major role.. so bad that they couldnt turn back Once they involved him in disposing of her body….. that is one inept island..no law and order …. I am reading Daves book.. very informative and sad at what he and beth were made to go through and its still a never ending nightmare.
Beths book a true and horrific story of a mother hearache as she tried in vain for justice..we are all praying that with the help and guildance of the lord … they will finaly pauulus joran the kalpoes and anyone else involved to justice
for natalie
JUSTICE FOR NATALIE….
SOON … JUSTICE WILL BE GIVEN

Beth if you are reading these posts, I want to send you the best of wishes in your quest for justice. May her scales finally tip in your favor. It would have been so easy to give up after everything you have been through, and I want you to know that I totally admire your strength and character..you are truly a beautiful Steel Magnolia.

Don’t you think that we would know if it was Natalee in that cage? It’s already been reported that the DNA did not match. That poor soul was, yet, another victim of the island gone mad; but the finding is significant as if shows a pattern. Do you, honestly, think that Natalee is the only victim of the Arawak Nation?

I don’t.

.

Once again, the Holloway family is showing the world that there is no quit in them. They are going to seek out the murderers of their daughter, leaving no stone unturned…

It’s TIME for justice!

.

Justice for Natalee

Sharon Chicago on
April 4th, 2008 2:20 pm

#2 Misunderstood…. Yep, me to. I would love to be in that court room just glaring at Paulus and Joran. You know the old saying “if looks could kill” )

Sharon Chicago on
April 4th, 2008 2:23 pm

I hope Joran’s Doctor shoots him up with some truth serum before he has to face the judge in court. This might be the only way we can get him to confess everything.

Terri on
April 4th, 2008 2:28 pm

Patti, I mean no offense to you, but I don’t know that I won’t to buy into the scenario of cannabalism and such. The only thing that I am asking is “did they say that it was a skull in the cage?” The only thing that I heard was that the material did not match the clothing that Natalee was wearing the night that she disappeared. To me, it sure looked like a skull in the cage, however, I had not heard anyone say that it was indeed a skull.

brie on
April 4th, 2008 2:36 pm

Somebody needs to drag Joran’s ass out of the mental institution….here again they are trying to avoid the case…Joran knows quite well what he did to Natalee…he doesn’t want to answer…or face the judge of go under oath…that is a complete admission of guilt…..You did it Joran….and Daddy cover it up as usual….

I agree with Richard, The Fat Lady hasn’t sung. It’s a shame that Joran doesn’t just come out with the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, but I don’t think it’s within his character. Remember, even when he was confessing to Patrick, it wasn’t his fault.

Yet if everyone thinks back to May 29, 2005, if Joran had just come forward then, admitted they gave Natalee a date rape drug and she died, van Stratten would have sent him off to a mental hospital and he would probably be close to getting on with the rest of his future about now.

But instead, on the advice of his father, Joran has spent 3 years in torment (pretending that all things are good when they aren’t), he’s dropped out of school and become a bum, leaching off his supposed “friends”, he’s now hiding in a mental hospital, his family has lived in fear of him shooting off his mouth, Papa Sloot has lost any prestige he had on the island, Beth and Dave and their families have been through hell and back several times, Aruba has become the laughing stock of “police investigations”, every time someone in Aruba opens their mouth, the world listens, laughs and a few hundred more tourists resolve not to go there.

Bob on
April 4th, 2008 2:45 pm

# 11, Patti

Re-read what you just posted: “It’s already been reported that the DNA did not match.”

….that the DNA did not match.

Therefore, by process of elimination, they looked to make a match to “something they FOUND”. Since Aruba is corrupt, do you think they would have released those existing bone / skull fragments, and clothing material that was retreived from that cage to Aruba? Hardly. You send it to America for forensic examination. Almost immediately, the Persistence suddenly announced they ran out of funding, packed up and left without fanfare. Do you think there’s going to be a bombshell dropped at that trial? I do. I think the VDS’s will re-arrested immediately and charged with complicit manslaughter and resultant murder. I also think Taco Joe will cower in a corner somewhere with a cell phone shaking in his hand. Holland has a rather unique legal justice system….they demand the truth when the eyes of the world will be watching. This ‘trial’ will be covered by the media (oh-oh Aruba, there goes the next 2 quarters’ tourism numbers) and make prime time evening news all around the world. I also guess AHATA will be running around trying to figure WHO to blame for future tourism drops and Greta, et.al will head the list covering the trial.

Stupid Sand Pigs…..not a clue amongst any 10,000 people. So sad.

Aruba is dead in the water, van der Sloot’s will be persona non grata even in prison. Geez.

Allan on
April 4th, 2008 3:18 pm

We stand by you Beth.

super dave on
April 4th, 2008 3:22 pm

i wonder if the judges in this new case will force baby sloot out of the mental institution of he tries to balk ? joe burrito is probably there with him or (bunking with him) changing his diapers.

Mary,UK on
April 4th, 2008 3:22 pm

Good luck and God bless Beth and her family, I hope they make Van Der Straaten testify, hes up to his neck in this, hope the B******S get whats coming to them, i am so angry i could blow a gasget!!!!!!

molly in houston on
April 4th, 2008 3:39 pm

11 Patti: I was thinking the same thing! How many other crab traps were ‘stolen’ in the past. It sounds like other people have been disposed of via those cages. Same MO, different person.

boycott aruba
molly in houston

molly in houston on
April 4th, 2008 3:47 pm

God bless you and be with you, Beth. We are very supportive of you and your lawsuit. I hope and pray that you have the victory in this situation. Man is a liar, but God is not a liar. He is the biggest fan of justice. So may you get justice in His Name.

1. What happened to Natalee the night she vanished?
2. Who were responsible, and who have concealed their knowledge of and/or participation in the cover-up? (I use the plural form deliberately.)
3. Where is Natalee, or her remains, now?

Until these three questions are fully answered, and punishment is duly meted out, there will be no end to the Natalee Holloway case.

And, surely, there will be no end to our saying:

“No justice for Natalee…no tourists for Aruba.”

Prayers to Beth Holloway and her family as they approach this civil law suit. As usual since it is dealing with the most messed up missing persons/manslaughter/murder/rape case of all time- we will HOPE for the BEST, but EXPECT the WORST.

Sorry to say, but that is what normally happens. Joran is just beginning to get a bit of his pay-back now by having to hide out in the psych ward. Hope he showers alone. lol

-J4N

dennisintn on
April 4th, 2008 4:48 pm

jvds is a sociopath. he would watch you skin his entire family alive before he would admit anything that would cause himself any grief or inconvenience. of course, that’s just my humble opinion.
dennisintn

misskatie on
April 4th, 2008 5:00 pm

I am sure that even aruban’s mickey mouse authorities are feeling like they made a mistake by covering up for pauulus.. posssibly for money… everything they do there is for money.for profit.. how sick is that… in beth and daves book’s they both were asked by Jacobs as to how much money they had.. knowing full well that she was already probably dead… everyone buys information… be it good or bad..
pauulus has to be high up on the scale of criminals to be able to manipulate so many people to cover up the murder… I hope that finaly … the truth will be exposed.. I admire beth for her resillient mentality through her pain and suffering she maintained her dignity… The vandersloots are going to pay for enabling that spoiled out of control son of theirs.. they should have taken control when they seen the warning signs … but they refused to think it was serious.. I hope that gang of punks in aruba that stalk and hand pick american girls to drug and rape.. I hope they will stand accountable… Karma will get them… And most of all I hope that all the publicity inpacts Arubas tourism more than ever … Aruba is not a safe place to go… young girls disappear never to be heard from or seen again….
I have two grown daughters and an 18 yr old grandaughter… to be honest with you I dont think that I could handle it if something like that happened to my grandaughter.. it would destroy me ……….emotionaly… many of us come here because we want to show support to beth and Dave and to warn the world especialy Americans to be safe… dont travel to aruba… there are no laws there to protect you… they hate american girls they call them bitchs and sluts and whores… they drug they rape them and they discard them like trash… some make out of there with those lifes.. if they are lucky… our natalie wasnt so lucky she was defenseless against three men and possibly more before the night ended.. she was drugged and not able to fight back… they took advantage of SWEET NAIVE GIRL THAT WAS ONLY THERE TO CELEBRATE.. her acomplishment.. her high school graduation.. we were robbed of a forth coming dr.. they robbed beth of grandkids they robbed dave of being able to walk his daughter down the aisle .. no wedding day for natalie… all because of joran… and his sick dad..some have said that more were killed because they knew to much.. silenced them.. I believe it to be true…
GOD BLESS BETH
GOD BLESS DAVE
GOD BLESS MATT
GOD BLESS THE GRANDPARENTS
HOW SAD ……….
Thanks
God bless us all as we stand for natalie and her family….your all true caring people here with alot of love and compassion…
Katie
MATT

#32 and you aren’t wrong IMHO. But I do believe it’s eating Joran alive. No one decent wants to be associated with him and I think he understands that now. Life as a criminal is about his only choice, which probably doesn’t bother him too much until he gets caught.

brie on
April 4th, 2008 6:17 pm

Joran is avoiding the questioning of the judge and going under oath..guilty and hiding….coward and taking the advice of the sole called lawyer Paulus van der Sloot who should be disbarred…..Don’t talk Joran or we are in a world of trouble..Drag his ass out of there and put him in front of the judge…..

nurturer on
April 4th, 2008 6:21 pm

35 – This is why Beth needs to be careful. She’s taking on real killers. This would all go away for them is she went away. I hope she has a body guard. With a gun.

brie on
April 4th, 2008 6:25 pm

The Sloot’s only put Joran under care when a lawsuit came about…..if you are going to state a mental health issue that should of been along along time ago and maybe Natalee would still be here…

Keala M on
April 4th, 2008 6:32 pm

Scared Monkeys please research (and then correct when you have verified the facts) the assertation in the letter quoted by user Martini in the Leta Lynn Cordes forum regarding the poster showing 12 missing people – I think you will find the missing persons relate to all French territories including mainland France – certainly not St. Maarten

As developments proceed in Natalee’s case, let’s take a look at something very similar … but with some acute differences.

Less than two months ago, a British teenager, Scarlett Keeling, disappeared while on vacation in Goa with her mother. Her body was later found on the beach in a popular tourist area; the initial police report said that she had died by accidental drowning.

Her mother wasn’t buying it. She went to Goa, demanded to be heard, and got publicity.

MEANWHILE, a few days ago, the National Commission for Women in Goa said there were “major lapses” in the probe. They also said the Goa police were trying “to shield some people involved in the incident.”

Scarlett was allegedly drugged, raped, and murdered on the beach on Feb. 18.

Also on April 2, the Goa government decided to transfer the case to the “elite” Central Bureau of Investigation, which I guess is comparable to our FBI.

Think of this folks … a Goa social agency, and several other human rights groups, expressed doubts about the police probe. A team of the National Commission for Women did its own investigation.

There’s a lot more about this … but ask this:

Did ANY GROUP ON ARUBA SPEAK UP FOR BETH? FOR DAVE? FOR NATALEE? DID ANYONE SAY THAT THE POLICE COULDN’T BE TRUSTED?

HELL, NO!

Just keep quiet, ma’am … don’t put our money flow at risk.

From a story: “In the preliminary report released on Sunday, NCW member Nirmala Venkatesh said: ‘The police are trying to hide the facts of the case and close it. We will never allow this to happen.’”

Please remember this name … Scarlett Keeling.

Unfortunately, the case didn’t appear on SM.

But for the rest of our lives, let’s never, EVER forget that on Goa, a poor island off India, groups stood up and defied the police for the sake of a foreign tourist and her family.

LONDON: Hours after the Goa government gave its nod for transfer of the sensational Scarlett Keeling murder case to CBI, the slain British teenager’s mother has termed the move as reassuring and hoped there would be no more “bending” of the truth in the case.

The decision to hand over the inquiry to the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) was reassuring, Fiona MacKeown told mediapersons last on Wednesday.

“We will get the right people. No more lying, no more bending the truth,” said MacKeown, who has brought the body of her 15-year-old daughter to the UK for burial.

She charged that the Goan police system was corrupt and accused the officials of treating her daughter’s murder as less important than sustaining tourism.

“I need to know what happened to her, I cannot rest until I know,” she said.

MacKeown, mother of eight who had been holidaying with Scarlett in Goa, hoped that the state police are prosecuted for their role in the investigation of the death of her daughter, whose body was found on Anjuna beach on February 19.

Police initially said Scarlett had accidentally drowned and after MacKeown challenged it, a second postmortem examination was ordered which found she was raped before her body washed up on the shore.

Paulus has money. He spends money like he has an income of 500 or 600 K / year. He or the family is always traveling somewhere by air, and it’s big bucks. The whole family vacations 2 or 3 times a year. Joran is always on the move, and with money to spend.

There is more income here than a low life lawyer, and a schoolteacher who wears see through blouses (yuck!) can muster.

There is money here. I smell it. It may be hidden, and unsinkable, but maybe Paulus can cough up 2 or 3 hundred million dollars. That wouldn’t be enough. His house and cars are not worth much, but should be taken; and his salary garnished.

Paulus knows what happen, and most probable participated. He knows the truth. The whole family knows. It would be wise to call the younger boys to the stand. They know too.

I suppose that I should take note of Jossy Mansur. His newspaper has criticized the actions and inactions, lies and evasions, of Aruba in Natalee’s case. But he has done nothing as outspoken as the National Commission of Women in Goa has done … at least, not that I recall.

And he told me that he would be leading an effort to collect money in Aruba for the Persistence. I can’t say, of course, that he hasn’t done it … but if he has, I don’t know about it. Which doesn’t mean anything in itself, of course.

brie on
April 4th, 2008 7:13 pm

Anita has two younger sons…witch she cares nothing about…what is happening to them because of Joran…they are now labeled and identified…!!!!!
They need to to be removed from the household and placed in a safe home….

It’s unimaginable the pain this family has been through. Some time ago, I think it was either Alan or Dennis from Tennessee that asked that one of us write a comment on what it must be like to lose a daughter. Immediately, thoughts of Easter Bunnies, bonnetts and white patent leather shoes popped into my head. The excitement of cheering from the sidelines and the silence of those Christmas morning smiles flooded my mind… and I thought, How could you EVER express that?

My thoughts and prayers are with Beth and her family at this critical time and I pray that they will be allowed to go on, inspite of all the pain and suffering they’ve been put through. The Holloway’s are a daily reminder of how deep a parent’s love can be, a love that is patient, kind, unselfish, humble and long-suffering… one that will ALWAYS be there to keep us going strong, even in the toughest of times.

To say that Joran has put Beth through shock and despair is an understatement; yet, even in the face of the Devil, himself, Beth remains a lady. I have the utmost respect for her and am proud to be a part of anything that I may have done to help. We’ve all tried… because it is The Holloways that have set the example of how to love.

brie on
April 4th, 2008 7:27 pm

Paulus gets his money from Posner…!!!!!

kiltie65 on
April 4th, 2008 8:03 pm

Last I heard, it was in Jossy Mansur’s article some time back, both the younger boys, Valentine & Sebastian were sent to the U.S. for safekeeping. I guess Florida, as that was where Joran was headed before all came to light. Someone was saying the older boy, Sebastian I think, would be starting college soon. OK for the Van der Sloots, eh? Their boy can head off to college most likely here in the U.S., Natalee never got the chance.

misskatie on
April 4th, 2008 8:25 pm

they dare come to the country that is boycotting their country for covering up natalies murder… they need to go back to their country how dare we play hostess to the likes of them

misskatie on
April 4th, 2008 8:33 pm

a few people have commented to me that beths life could be at risk
I pray not…
also pauulus used to thrive on being popular with his homies.. well I am sure now he is lucky if the real nuts where he is … care to fraternize with the likes of him… even a nut has more sense than he does…

misskatie on
April 4th, 2008 8:34 pm

oopsie
I meant to say joran used to thrive

txchic on
April 4th, 2008 9:00 pm

there definitely needs to be some sort of audit to find out where the vs money is coming from. i’m just unaware of anyone who lives in a gambling area who spends so much time in casinos unless they’re employed there. the odds are that they loose lots every week.

one would think that it would be very pertinent to this case…

Pat in Alabama on
April 4th, 2008 9:03 pm

The money comes from the drug lords. They run the whole island.

Shrinking Monk on
April 4th, 2008 9:04 pm

I hate to be a pessimist… I totally hope and pray that Beth and Natalee’s family will finally get some answers. However, the pessimist in me (especially after how Aruba keeps ignoring all the evidence and refuses to prosecute) but… my gut says that in the end we’ll all be left feeling hungry – hungry for honesty, hungry for truth, hungry for justice. In no way do I think Paulus, his wife, Joran, his cohorts, the ALE, or anyone else involved will actually become honest for one second. Beth may get a victory of some kind of award based on existing evidence, but I don’t think anything else may come out of it.

Heck, look at OJ Simson. There was a civil suit won against him and that has not seemed to have much weight. He was even able to get into more trouble – look at his legal struggles now!

I’d love for Joran to be fed some truth serum and have him spill his guts… but it’s not going to happen. I hope and pray a civil suit can help bring closure for Beth… I somehow feel it won’t, can’t and never will.

Shrinking Monk

Pat in Alabama on
April 4th, 2008 9:13 pm

#7 Richard

“We’re all hoping for the best … but keep in mind all the excitement that the JQK subpoena of Joran and Paulus in New York engendered. Only to yield nothing.”

While I agree with you to a point, I don’t think that any efforts that have been made have accomplished “nothing”. I love the fact that Joran and family cannot rest for a minute, not knowing when they might be arested, slapped with a suit, recorded by an undercover “friend”, or even turned in by their own. They have made the lives of many people a living hell, and in the process gotten a double portion for themselves. They think they are getting away with something, but they have to be a miserable bunch…

Oh, and they shouldn’t forget that they have become a liability to the drug lords and organized crime of Aruba.

In my opinion Paulus wants his freak of a son in the mental institution..he is scared sh—–s that the sporter will shoot his mouth off. I hope he does have plenty of money…all the more to go after. after all money is what this case has been about from the beginning..not saving that sociopaths hide.
Aruba still has time to clean up the mess if it wants to, but Hans Mos is such a pathetic wimp he dare not blow his nose without permission from those that run the so called justice system.
The Netherlands could also have settled the matter had they wished to, but those islands (Antilles) are probably useful to them in a lot of ways which is imo why they cut them slack to run their justice system any way they please. corrupt or not.

Bob on
April 4th, 2008 10:22 pm

Beth’s Game Plan in Holland:

Get IN

Get EVEN

GET OUT

It’s already written in the stars.

misskatie on
April 4th, 2008 10:27 pm

pat
your right…. the sloots are biggtime liability to the drug lords of aruba
their lives are now turned upside down they can think sporter that that one

Bob on
April 4th, 2008 10:31 pm

“Beth was told to be quiet or the “investigation” would stop.”

Do we have the name of the Sand Pig that said that? Is it recorded on tape or was that filmed? Was it one of the Police? Investigators? Corrupt government official? Is it in a transcript?

Please post the person’s name on this thread. No guesses, the actual name.

Minnesota Dad on
April 4th, 2008 11:00 pm

As someone who has dealt with our US legal system in similar circumstances, I can spill what the next step will be.

This case will never get a hearing on the facts. The judge will write an order saying that it is a ‘fishing expedition’ and that the VDS’ are honorable people. Sorry, case thrown out.

Care to appeal? Go ahead….appellate courts only look at the ‘facts’ as determined by a lower court. The lower court’s judge determines what the facts are…and these will have been rewritten to protect the sloots. Bank on it.

JQK knows that this is how the game is played. Is he earning money off of Beth without advising her that this is what is going to happen? That legal systems are a sham when it comes to protecting someone of influence?

I know how cover-ups work…and this is the next step of the cover-up. There is not a person here at Scared Monkeys that would love to see PVDS hung more than me…..but I know he will be protected as he has been so far.

It was rumored that Van der Sloot got his money from issuing fake migration papers and work permits. There are many that think that he is involved in human trafficking, as a result. It is, truly, amazing when you think about the news article that was written in the Amigoe last week about the Justice Department not keeping any books and how by NOT keeping track of the money coming in and going out, there is a lot of room for corruption through bribes.

I’m sure there is someone that knows more, but my jest is that many of the departments didn’t keep good books on their activities. The Dutch have spoken about the discrepancies within the Immigration Department… it makes me wonder if they know something that can be tied, specifically, to Paulus.

Knowing that many trafficked girls are offered what appears to be a legitamate job, swept from their families and provided with illegal papers to be moved from one country to another; would put Van der Sloot at the top of the list of Fat Pigs in the pig sty. Perhaps, that is how he’s made so many connections with the underworld and is a problem to be reckoned with.

And, ofcourse, Anita flies back and forth; perhaps with her hired help, from Aruba to The Netherlands, frequently. Paulus was not a judge, only a ‘judge in training’ whatever THAT means; and has obviously been able to support his family over the years on his trivial job as a clerk.

Remember, the people that are trafficked consist, mostly, of women and CHILDREN. You heard me right. Many children in Latin America go to work at a very young age due to their family’s financial situations…

Beth knew what she was doing when she called for the boycott… she’s a smart woman, a loving woman and is highly respected in this country. We support her, and her boycott.

.

Please, stay away from Aruba!

resolution on
April 5th, 2008 5:05 am

I hope this keeps the sloots & their entourage shaking in their boots, sweating profusely and makes them CRACK….however, the “under oath” thing has me a bit concerned. They have not told the truth before in court before…..remember, everybody lies – right Anita?

resolution on
April 5th, 2008 5:09 am

God Bless you Beth and I pray for justice for you & your family. Go out and ROCK THEIR WORLD!!!

Sharon Chicago on
April 5th, 2008 5:30 am

#55 Kayjay… yes, you are right…but I also think it was a ploy to try to show sympathy for the sporter by putting him in the mental hospital. Trying to justify his confession as being untrue….Kind of like Ok he has now been locked up no longer on the streets, he has mental issues and we can use this in the future towards his case if it comes to that.

Also, the Vanderscums attorneys had to do something drastic after Jorans confession of getting rid of Natalee’s body, not knowing for sure if she was dead or alive. Yes his life is in danger now that people have heard it from his mouth to the world. But Aruba refuses to listen and acknowledge Jorans crimes.

Sharon Chicago on
April 5th, 2008 5:39 am

#15 Brie… Yes, Joran is hiding out in that mental institution. Can you imagine how Paulus must have flooded the floor with his sweat beads along with wetting himself when the video tapes were played.

I would think the underground drug lords want Joran dead by now, if they helped Joran/Paulus get rid of Natalee, they know they are in jeoprady with Joran’s loose lips that can sink a ship. Joran is probably a marked sporter by now.

Besides that phsyco path will eventually trip up again when he is on his ego roll and wants to impress himself. He will talk again down the road.

Sharon Chicago on
April 5th, 2008 5:42 am

I would think that Paulus is of no use any longer to the drug traffic lords since his face is constantly in the media and is also being watched. They may feel he is too much of a risk. Maybe Paulus’s income has slowed down.

I would think at this point he is running scared.

Sharon Chicago on
April 5th, 2008 5:46 am

If Joran did not use a drug lord to dispose of Natalee’s body, but called his friends to do that, I would think his friends are very concerned that
Joran will eventually reviel their names, and they should be fearful of this.

Everytime Joran spouts off his mouth, all of the guilty, including the Kalpoe’s, involved probably freak out, knowing that at any moment they can be exposed to the world as helping the killer get away with murder.

murph on
April 5th, 2008 7:13 am

Beth is doing the right thing here and the sloops maybe are realizing that she is not going away till she gets some justice for Natalee. I am going back to watch this trail and pray some justice may come out of Aruba.

Sharon Chicago on
April 5th, 2008 7:15 am

Hi Scared Monkeys… I was going to post again but noted my other posts have been deleted…is there a glitch in the system?

kaye on
April 5th, 2008 7:23 am

Prayers to you Beth….”Justice is a woman with a sword…A woman with a sword is a powerful emblem. She is no one’s property. A crime against her will be answered by her own hand. She is armed with the traditional weapon of honour & vengeance…she has a sense of personal dignity and worth.”–D.A. Clarke
boycott aruba justicefornatalee

Vicki on
April 5th, 2008 8:50 am

Patti, Imstill crying from your post…youre right where do you begin to write what it feels like to lose a daughter, or a loved one…BETH, You are in my prayers….

brie on
April 5th, 2008 8:59 am

So hide Joran in a mental institution, Paulus.,Afraid for your own life……your son is a murderer and you well know it…..and you helped cover it up…as usual…he was in the casino illegal and he drank illegal and you knew it…if he hadn’t of been allowed those privileges Natalee would still be here.

Pat in Alabama (#54) … Perhaps the van der Sloots are running scared, but if so there’s no apparent sign of it. Not of which I know, at least.

I for one don’t think they give a damn about what people on the island think of them. As far as I know, Aruba hasn’t even moved to disbar PvdScum from practicing law … despite his smuggling a cell phone into Joran’s cell, and despite his lies and evasions in his reports.

The only thing that Aruba did was award him damages. These were revoked after he wanted even more … but I see no sign that he is ‘suffering’ at all.

My guess: they’re smirking at home, just like Joran did when he and Daddy were driving away from jail after his second release.

So in terms of results … I still don’t think the JQK lawsuit accomplished one thing. The van der Sloots are still walking free. I can’t say how the Dutch lawsuit will go … but in my mind, the three questions I posted above are the keys.

We were told that after the “Patrick tapes” came out, the van der Sloots had their home (and Joran’s bicycle, boo-hoo) vandalized.

Maybe. But the real issue is … what is happening NOW? My guess: nothing. A flash in the pan isn’t enough.

J O Cincy on
April 5th, 2008 9:41 am

#59 Minnesota Dad

“that the VDS’ are honorable people. Sorry, case thrown out.”

This is a fear of mine also. But the Dutch Court would be defining “Honorable” as a “LIAR” and a “Leading member of a Cover-up”. I only hope the Dutch people don’t allow this to happen.

Wouldn’t it be nice to see the Aruban Damage Control Team in action now. I wonder who they are willing to sacrifice in order to keep the “Head Snake” alive. And I wonder if the low level snakes are scrambling to get their lies in order. How sick they are!!!!!

Carpe, i know there are live webcams at Eagle Beach that update every two minutes, are there other webcams and have you ever researched them???

kaye on
April 5th, 2008 10:09 am

#77 richard…..apparently he is still a practicing attorney according to the firms webpage
Carlo & van der Sloot
Our Attorneys
Antonio A.D.A. Carlo, born in Curaçao, Netherlands Antilles (1957), graduated from the Catholic University of Nijmegen, the Netherlands (LL.M., 1990). Before going into private practice in 1995 Mr. Carlo worked as general counsel of a local bank in Aruba and as a government attorney at Aruba government’s Legal Department. He was admitted to the Bar of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba in 1995. His practice focuses mainly on corporate law, banking law, labor law, intellectual property law, real estate law, transactions and contract law.

Languages: Dutch, English, Spanish and Papiamento.

Contact Antonio A.D.A. Carlo

Paul A.P.J. van der Sloot, born in the Netherlands (1952), graduated from the University of Tilburg, the Netherlands (LL.M., 1979). Before going into private practice Mr. van der Sloot worked ten years in social legal aid in the Netherlands, four years in the Aruban Government, eight years in the public prosecution and three years as a judge. He was admitted to the bar in 2006. His practice focuses mainly on administrative law and mediation.

Languages: Dutch, English, German, French and Papiamento.

Contact Paul A.P.J. van der Sloot

Vito A.V. Carlo, born in Aruba, Netherlands Antilles (1979), graduated from the University of Aruba (LL.M., 2007). Before going into private practice in 2007, Mr. Carlo worked as a physical education teacher (B Ed., 2001) for four years. He was admitted to the Bar of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba in 2007. His practice focuses mainly on labor law, contract law, corporate law, administrative law, litigation and criminal law.

i checked them this morning…Bucuti Beach – 2,
Tara Beach – 4, Playa Linda Resort- 5 in the pool, Radisson Aruba- there was an amazing 10 people gathered around the bar and a few in the pool. must be from the large increase in columbian/venzuelan tourist!

kiltie65 on
April 5th, 2008 11:57 am

Sad to me that none of the major networks have seemed to pick up on Beth’s case in the Netherlands…but I have faith in the courts in the Netherlands and the Netherlanders themselves. Hopefully, the newcasts will report as the case develops and at the end of May, on the 3 year anniversary. The best thing the cause has going for it are: Jossy and this blog, the other Natalee blogs, and the effectiveness of the BOYCOTT ON ARUBA! And heading the team, Natalee’s parents…who refuse to let Aruba get a free pass/

kaye on
April 5th, 2008 12:26 pm

#83 kiltie65…….it is sort of strange that none of the american news media have mentioned this new development. i have written to every one of them requesting they do a 3-yr anniversary program in conjunction with this new development. haven’t heard a word or gotten any response to any of my emails! guess the election campaign is overshadowing this type of news…..

speaking of jossy…..why have we not heard a word from him since the last SM radio show he was on……..not a word. could it be that he too has also been “persuaded” to keep quiet on this subject?

kaye on
April 5th, 2008 12:34 pm

i found this on arubandirtypolice…
Monday, February 11, 2008
Remembering Jossy Mansur
“The world is watching.”

How often is that literally true?

Jossy Mansur, editor of Diario is one of the most fascinating characters in this story. He may even be iconic if this was an HBO production.

Mr. Mansur has maintained a chivalrous attitude and stance with Natalee and with Beth. He has written passionately in their defense from the beginning.
Since I started my blog, I’ve met 2 people who know Jossy, have been to his house, that in itself is amazing. But, clearly a man who’s found a niche. The rumors of “dirty dealings” are more like sunburn in Aruba.
His outrage at the treatment of Natalee and Beth is something that I find very pure. For whatever reason, his being offended by that is a step toward trust.
His patience, eloquence in the name of Natalee have been a blessing…

and yet,

He didn’t sway opinion in Aruba, Joran van der sloot did, and it took a reporter from Holland to serve that up.

Why are authorities in Aruba more afraid of the foreign media than one’s in their own neighborhood?

Only until recently did Aruba empathize with Natalee’s mother?

How sick is that? Nobody believed Jossy or was he too timid?

Or is his moral outrage just not that motivating to the average citizen?

Jossy Mansur is uniquely positioned to expose the truth. Will he do it? We read rumors of his health, his past, his physical danger etc. Nevertheless, it’s his defining moment, obviously.

Yes, and the sword is truth. That’s the ONLY thing that is powerful enough to bring Aruba down and force them to make their Palace walls straight, as Shango speaks about.

No doubt, the TRUTH that has come out about Aruba will keep it at the bottom of our list of places to go, people to see. While I poke fun at Nelson Oduber and his military suit, there is no doubt, in my mind, that he told the truth when he gave his radio address regarding 90% of his people being embarrassed. Embarrassment is something that you feel when you are caught with your hand in the cookie jar, not something you feel when a young lady’s body is found, torn, tatterred and tortured on a rock… and he is right, we know the truth. Aruba is not a happy island and there will be no more visitors.

.

Boycott!

misskatie on
April 5th, 2008 1:22 pm

patti
do you think that the vandersloots are getting a little nervous.. if joran is becoming a liability than is it possible that someone in the mafia can eliminate joran..

sharon chicago
I think your so right jorans mouth has become his downfall and his fathers… his days may be numbered.. so he is hiding..beth shook the foundation to the roots of that family.. she is to be greatly admired..

misskatie on
April 5th, 2008 1:54 pm

I just finished reading daves book
in it he tells that it is rumored that the two kalpoe brothers were asked to leave their country for similar crimes against girls.. also dave tells of a book deepak was going to write… he wanted it to be about him and leave natalie out.. he is so full of himself… he wanted 500.000 or something like that…up front… he voiced to the person that was going to help with the book. that he was very interested in with meeting american girls. and partying….he deepak very demanding and hateful… he wanted to get rich… what.. by talking about himself…

misskatie on
April 5th, 2008 2:03 pm

Richard
what a stupid idiot he is.. he helps cover a crime his son comitted and lord only knows how deep his involvement went.. and he has the nerve to feel justified in seeking damages
perhaps to make him look innocent… by saying lookie I am innocent and so is my son … they are paying me for my suffering… recall that joran said that they were gonna make alot of money from beth…. I hope he falls off his throne and has to be disbarred.. aruba will have to do something to quiet the raging waters.. that they have created.. are they willing to keep on loosing so much money… for him… is he worth.. the ultimate sacrifice… naw the drug lords will make him go away disappear… bye bye ..I am glad richard that they gave him nothing….

misskatie on
April 5th, 2008 2:12 pm

kiltie
as dave said in his book… the media comes to life and out of the wood work when it can increase their ratings.. greta I thought was very close to beth… than something changed there… when greta had him on her show and actualy believed what he said.. its all about the rating.. I think greta hurt beth biggtime…

kiltie65 on
April 5th, 2008 2:55 pm

Life appears to be cheap in Aruba. Seems to me an inordinate amount of people in Aruba seem to have died/become “suicidal”/”disappeared” since Natalee’s “disappearance”…and they were peripheral figures. I think very soon more pivotal figures will have calamitous things start happening to them…especially if they are summoned to appear in the Netherlands, and thus may get out of the control of the Aruban powers that be.

misskatie on
April 5th, 2008 3:14 pm

my guess is kiltie that joran and pauulus may fall into that catagory along with the two brothers that have a history of hurting girls even before coming to aruba

Miss Katie (#92) … Remember, the Aruban courts DID award PvdScum damages initially. Then he decided that it wasn’t enough, and wanted more.

They then told him to go screw. But had he accepted the initial award, he would have been given money. Beth and Dave, and the volunteers who have helped and are helping them, got nothing.

Except high bills from Aruba.

Lest anyone misinterpret what I said above … I have no problem with Beth going after the van der Scums in court. I hope she smashes them.

But the central questions in this case, at least in my eyes, are the three that I posted above:

1. What happened to Natalee the night she vanished?
2. Who were responsible, and who have concealed their knowledge of and/or participation in the cover-up? (I use the plural form deliberately.)
3. Where is Natalee, or her remains, now?

If Beth’s lawsuit, and any subsequent legal maneuvering, fail to give us answers to these questions, then it is not really to the point.

Nice, yes … but the real focus is on Natalee.

misskatie on
April 5th, 2008 4:58 pm

Richard in daves book he tried to interpet shangos riddles
it came across that Joran wasnt the one that comitted the crime but that it is possible that he is covering for someone else.. I am sure you read Daves book what is your interpetation of it..it implys that odubar and jannsen and other higher ups are threatening people oh and possibly dompig the real pig.. whats your take on it?

#17 Bob, I do believe you are right in assuming there will be a bomb dropped. I know when I looked at the photo that the persistence shared of the crab trap, it sure looked like a skull to me. Although they said it wasn’t, why then would they say the DNA didn’t match? Well I agree with you, it was something warranting DNA testing. I suspect the six shooter Beth is packing is fully loaded and she has a back up as well.

patti
question here
dave did an interpetation of shango
he said that in shango the person was trying to assume that joran was innocent and possiblly somebody else did it.
that more or less joran was a scapegoat.. what is your interpetation of shango.
I thought that simian was the original code talker not shango… isnt that why semian quit talking.. this can be confusing…

waterboy, i was reading old blogs and the one where you were first talking about the golf course is dated December 22 2006….maybe thats part of the notes you are looking for…

elisabeth on
April 6th, 2008 2:12 am

A usually well informed Dutch crime journalist claims that a lead to Daury may have been found by the police. He is reported to be serving a drug conviction in an US jail.

Jasper on
April 6th, 2008 3:39 am

Oh oh, things have radically changed in the Netherlands.

Though the Moscowizc clan is preparing a civil lawsuit against the Van Der Sloots, defence from the Van Der Sloots is gearing up. With Joran in a mental institute, defence have all the time to bolster up.

Beth wants to see Everey van der Sloot, and Peter and Patrick for court ? The van der Sloot defence list is growing over 500 withnesses and suspects, including ALL high school students travelling with Natalee, the FBI agents present in the Aruban support, the hotel & bar personal, the Twitty family, the pilots, almost everybody.

Then there is the impact on Joran psychology. Only for this one, he is going to walk free. Sorry, to tell you monkeys, this is going to be a very, very dirty lawsuit. What is definitely not as going as straighforwardly planned by Bram Moscowitscz. Though his intake to cap in on “shock damage”, Jorans defence has not been sleeping either.

I became interested in the golf course, almost from the start in June or July of 05. I was searching their membership list to see if the Sloots were members, and reading the newsletters (called the Beacon). I didn’t realize that the golf course abutted against the lighthouse property at that time.

I should have made a copy of the membership list. I was only looking for the Sloot’s names. By the time the other names started to surface, I could no longer get the names of the members. ( I don’t think the sloots are members).

You can still get the newsletter from the golf course http://www.tierradelsol.com/news/, but not any from May, June, July, Aug, and others from 05. I read them all, and there was no mention of Natalee. Life just went on as normal, with all signs pointing to a crime in their own back yards.

I was very interested in this kid. http://www.mementomori.net/05139.html I received many troll attacks for it, and will probable receive some now. My feeling was that this picture was from a much earlier, more innocent time in this kids life, and I thought that one of the mystery pictures of an unknown with Joran was this kid. You will notice that he died on June 4, 05, how strange. One lady that did not seem to be a troll really let me and 1906 have it. I felt bad. I could tell 1906 regretted any statements about the dead also.

I saw a picture from the time, and there were a lot of houses for sale, and new ones being built. In one you can see a backhoe.

No one is on the golf course at night. There is no security guard out on the course. It’s isolated until the A.M.

MissKatie (#99) … I don’t pretend to have the answers on Simian and Shango, but it never made sense to me that if they did in fact have info and truly wanted to see the case solved:

1. They would state things so eliptically.
2. They would send their comments piecemeal to an Internet blog, namely this one, rather than to the FBI, the Holloway Twitty family, etc.

The whole thing to me had the strong overtone of someone who had OD’d on Dan Brown’s book The daVinci Code, which I think was popular back then.

So who are the prime suspects, in my eyes? Here goes:

1. Someone who was just totally whacko. This doesn’t seem very likely, but could be.
2. A ‘psychic’ or someone similar who was a bit off. I’m not saying that all psychics are that way … I know a few who are dedicated and who believe in what they do (which doesn’t prove that they are right), but we can all agree that there are SOME who are in outer space.
3. Jossy Mansur. After all, the stuff came from Florida, where he has a home, and those postings might have been a way of trying to get popular attention focused on this case. That would account for the sudden ending of the postings: Natalee Holloway’s disappearance became the best known missing-person case in the world.

4. My true belief: I think that someone in the circle of Joran and the Kalpoes, aka one of the Pimps, was doing this. Why? Because, if Joran was truly psychopathic, he would want attention focused on his ability to fool everyone (or so he thought).

What’s the use of being a “master criminal” if the world doesn’t pay attention?

A lot of people will think I’m full of crap, and that’s okay. Obviously, not all of these can be true: Jossy Mansur’s motives in doing this would be different from Joran’s. So some of these ideas MUST be wrong, and perhaps all of them are.

Anyway, I don’t think for one second that Joran would cover for anyone else. The only case that I can see where this might be true is if the other person or persons were in a position to, as our Chicago friends used to say, “rub him out.”

In other words, if he or someone in his family handed Natalee over to drug dealers or other people who took her off the island, alive, for purposes of sexual slavery.

Because of my involvement in the Amy Bradley case, I have long thought that this was the most likely answer. Nothing else, in my mind, justified the cover-up … if this had been an ‘ordinary’ date-rape drug case gone wrong, then the sensible thing for Aruba to do would be to solve it and get it behind them.

(When I say ‘ordinary,’ I simply mean that there are lots of such cases in this country as well as abroad. That doesn’t diminish the injustice or suffering.)

I no longer think this is the most likely answer.
What I think, of course, has nothing to do with what did or didn’t happen.

Another possibility is the reported propensity of ‘Freddy’ to be filming away. On another thread, somewhere back, I posted a story about a child pedophile network that was broken in, I believe, 2001. It was called something like Club Orchid, or Wonderland, and was international.

To enter this network, apparently, someone had to provide 10,000 images of sex crimes against children that the group didn’t have.

You read that right: TEN THOUSAND IMAGES. They had to be ones that weren’t in the group’s database. The crimes were committed against children as young as one year old.

Can’t believe it? Neither could I, but that’s what the article said.

Could Freddy and some of the Pimps have been in a similar group? Could they have made money that way? It seems that somebody is paying the legal bills down there.

My point: this kind of racket is another thing that Aruba wouldn’t want the outside world to know.

Here’s a repost of the ‘Club Orchid’ info. Nobody will want to read this … but turning our eyes away won’t help the victims. Note that the animals who took part in this were generally computer-literate. This raises in my mind a question: who put up the money for the Kalpoes’ relative to buy the Internet cafe, and why?

In the UK, eight men were charged with conspiracy to distribute pornographic images.

This was not a passive activity of collecting pornography. This is real abuse of children

Seven pleaded guilty and one killed himself.

The international operation to trace the internet paedophiles began in San Jose, California, in May 1996, when the police discovered that a child abuser had broadcast live images on the internet to a paedophile ring called the Orchid Club.

Among its subscribers was a man in his twenties who lived in East Sussex.

Investigating the leads, Sussex police found not only child pornography linked to the Orchid Club, but also a larger and more sinister paedophile network called Wonderland.

Police seized 750,000 computer images of children

A five-month investigation followed, codenamed Operation Cathedral and co-ordinated by the British National Crime Squad in London.

Wonderland originated in the United States but also operated in Australia, Austria, Belgium, Finland, France, Germany, Italy, Norway, Portugal, Sweden and Britain.

Members joined, by invite only, on condition that they provided 10,000 images of children different from the hundreds of thousands of others already stored on the club’s database.

One Italian member had 180,000 images.

The images uncovered by the raids in 1998 that finally broke the ring included photographs of naked boys and girls, aged from infancy to puberty.

One was a baby less than a year old.

‘Skilled individuals’

The behaviour that has been carried out is absolutely appalling

Det Supt Peter Spindler
Detective Superintendent Peter Spindler, of the National Crime Squad, said the Wonderland Club were educated, skilled individuals who knew how to use encryption to protect the images and defeat law enforcement.

“This was not a passive activity of collecting pornography,” he said.

“The images are disgusting and the behaviour that has been carried out is absolutely appalling.

“These people were not the dirty mac brigade that you might think paedophiles may consist of.

“They are male, in their mid 30s or early 40s who happen to have good IT skills. They knew what they were doing.”

One of the Wonderland conspirators, who pleaded guilty, does not believe he encouraged the exploitation of children by his behaviour.

However, detectives believe there were 1,200 young victims whose images were the hard currency of this paedophile ring.

Trauma

John Carr, internet consultant for NCH Action for Children, said each one of the images represented a crime against an actual child.

“It is therefore very important that these guys are caught and that these images are found and confiscated,” he said.

“Without these pictures we have no way of tracking down the children to give them the kind of help and support they almost certainly will need to recover from the trauma which these pictures represent.”

Tracking the children in the images is like hunting a needle in a haystack

As pornography on the internet rapidly increases, Mr Carr says the authorities face an uphill struggle in catching those responsible.

“One is that the internet itself is very difficult to police, it is very difficult to find the bad guys who are doing these kind of things,” he said.

“Equally it is about resources. If you haven’t got the right number of policemen in the first place you have no hope of finding these guys who are doing the bad things on the internet.”

Lost children

There are still no clues as to the identities of the children involved in Wonderland’s trading ring despite secret pilot studies in Britain and other countries.

Some pictures suggested they had been shot in an Asian location.

In others, the scenery suggested that of a typical English village.

Rob Hutchinson, from the Association of Directors of Social Services, said it was almost impossible to continue with the investigation.

“It’s like looking for a needle in a haystack,” he said.

“We don’t know how old the photos are, we don’t know where the children come from, we don’t even know what countries.”

But Mr Hutchinson said all the information had been transferred to child protection units of police authorities around the UK who would match it with ongoing investigations.

The UK’s National Crime Squad keeps a file of the victims, and police now hope to have the world’s first victims’ database which can be accessed by law enforcement agencies everywhere.

brie on
April 6th, 2008 8:32 am

113….where did you get that information….that sounds like nonsense….500 witnesses and suspects…Bram can use the reason Joran signed himself into the mental institution was merely an excuse to avoid answering questions from the judge. We all know Joran did it from day one. If he had nothing to hide he’d speak to the judge under oath and get it over with.

thanks waterboy, i wish you could find the tunnel information….i have looked everwhere….Richard, I feel for Beth, but you know, if she wins the lawsuite but doesnt receive the answers we all want or the pentalties, she only receives money….and thats nothing.

the problem is he wont even make a good criminal… can you see him in the mob.. geez he would get eliminated right away because of his big mouth and ego he would sing like a bird… he would join hoffa..

brie on
April 6th, 2008 9:57 am

EURObert…..if your out there could you tell us where Jasper….113 got his information…..anything you could report to us about the civil suit would be appreciated.

brie on
April 6th, 2008 10:20 am

Jasper says Joran is going to walk free…he will never in his life walk free….the whole world knows who he is and what he did….

kiltie65 on
April 6th, 2008 10:37 am

#120. I too hope this lawsuit brings answers, but if it only brings a huge settlement to Beth (most of which will be eaten up with legal fees, etc.) at least it damages the Van der Sloots. Their raison d’etre is all about prestige, money, and psycho Joran…they already lost any influence and prestige, hopefully their “super fund” (whomever is financing them and we can all guess) will dry up and consider them expendable), and Joran is already a lost cause…damaged for life. What self respecting girl would marry him, what company would hire him? He’s already doomed.

As long as Abraham has passed the bar in the Netherlands he is qualified to practice on Aruba.
Contrary to what prevents Joe Taco Whaco from practicing on Aruba.
However; in my opinion since the Dutch Nationals were involved in the cover-up of Natalee’s disappearance; I don’t think they are willing in the Netherlands to air its dirty laundry to the world.
I’m hopeful that Beth and Abraham have worked out a strategy for questions and answers that are more meaningful then we have seen in media interviews. I say this because they all stopped short when it came time to ask crucial questions. JMHO.

jasper on
April 6th, 2008 11:11 am

Dear brie,

First on your remark that Joran is going to walk free, and me accusing of having said that.

1. In a Dutch civil lawsuit, you go free, you might have to pay a fine or pay for done damage, but you will walk free.

2. I made a remark a couple of months ago, that if the Dutch state is going to prosecute Joran for the “Peter R. De Vries” tapes, Joran would walk free. As usually, Jasper is right, he remained free, because Jasper IS your source when it comes to Dutch legal matters.

So, brie, I propose that next time you choose your remarks a little bit more careful, when talking to, or speaking about, Jasper.

I told you end last week where Joran is located. You know, I am very well informed, because I am Jasper, and I AM your souce in the Netherlands.

Returing to the civil suete, it is Sunday evening in the Netherlands and not much activity going on, I just recently heard from and via, that the defence is bolstering up the defence. Can they invite 500 other suspects and whitnesses ? Oh, yes, not a problem, just invite them and question them. It will be an endless lawsuit, and as long as joran is in a Psychiatric clinic, do not expect any case.

How are they going to defend ? First question: what do they have to defend ? That is the central question. Remember, this is a civil lawsuete, based on a new law in the netherlands, called psychological damage due to shock. The expected defence is going to be a very dirty one. (This is based on the opinion of first class lawyers, retired judges and law professors).

I will keep you posted, because I am Jasper, and I AM your source in the Netherlands.

Several have said that the monetry awards in the Netherlands are not that large..hopefully the legal fees will be in keeping. If all monkeys sent a couple of dollars to Beth, with all the people who pop in and out of this site, it would probably help quite a lot!
In any event I am sure the amount of money received or not is not the main issue here.
JUSTICE FOR NATALEE
BPYCOTT ARUBA

Waterboy 114:
I never regretted saying anything about this.http://www.mementomori.net/05139.html
In fact Michelle posted his picture.
Some one through autotyping told me that there was this person that looked like him at the lighthouse and that Joran paid off him and the staff to leave the area of the lighthouse. Later they had him killed because he recognized Natalee in the news after she disappeared. I wonder if he could have been like a bus boy at the resturant.
This person that I have spoken to feels that is where Natalee was taken.

kaye on
April 6th, 2008 11:36 am

#114 waterboy. wasn’t that young man that died in june 2005 kerwin goijla? he saw JVDS and Natalee at the lighthouse. supposedly he was paid money to keep his mouth shut about seeing them. i read that awhile back though not sure where i saw it.

kaye on
April 6th, 2008 11:45 am

#127 sorry…..my post was “awaiting moderation” and yours wasn’t there when i was posting.
same info.

kaye on
April 6th, 2008 11:52 am

Richard #117……i’ve always thought that the person behind the shango riddles was jossy. i asked you your opinion once before but you didn’t get back with me.
i said it had to be someone who knows the island and it’s peoples better than anyone. a person with unlimited resources and detailed knowledge of the customs of the peoples.
i believe you are right. jossy.
he has remained very quiet lately. i believe the political pressure is on him also to remain slient. doesn’t his brother own one of the large casinos and is very influential on the island. i read he was a very large drug lord (the brother).

I’ve always felt like they took Natalee to the lighthouse and possible to an after hours party at the restaurant, and then to the sloot’s.

I’ve never heard anyone else say anything about this curly headed kid. What do you have?

http://www.mementomori.net/05137.html This is another death we have speculated about in depth. My theory is that she was a receptionist, hostess, or waitress; and she saw something she should not have seen.

If I were investigating Natalee’s case, for sure I would know the ends and outs of every aspect of these two people.

My best guess is that the Wever lady was at one time married to a Wever of the funeral home family.

Good to hear from you. Maybe I can spend a little more time posting. I’ve just about gotten caught up on everything that was bogging me down.

#114 waterboy. wasn’t that young man that died in june 2005 kerwin goijla? he saw JVDS and Natalee at the lighthouse. supposedly he was paid money to keep his mouth shut about seeing them. i read that awhile back though not sure where i saw it.

Kaye,

I sorry, I posted before I saw your post. Yes, that is kerwin goijla.

What do you know about him? Do you have any links?
All this is news to me.

Back as far as 2005 (maybe) I was trying to get everyone to look at a picture on one of the web sites that I thought was Kerwin. The character was very scary looking.

I’m not a Shango expert. Like I said earlier, I only read it a couple times, back to back. I studied it and think that Simeon provided information regarding the St. John’s celebration during which the WHOLE island burns something (God only knows what, perhaps animals) as a sacrifice to the gods in forgiveness of sin. It is an ANNUAL festival. While the festival that takes place once a month, the Arawak celebration, is one that is described as a religious ceremony conducted by a priest. The thing that I found the MOST interesting is how Shango ended each of his posts with the message “I must feed the gods”. I believe that was the message that he MOST wanted to relay and in the interim, he projected the future. The talk about lions describes the nature of the hunt… before the eventual sacrifice. I, truly, think that Shango and Simeon knew what they were talking about and were trying to use word association to convey a message.

The reading of their writings is enlightening, as they draw you into a hypnotic state through the use of the letter “O”. Shango predicted what would happen, knowing the politics of the island. He was skeptic of the Babylonians, but hopeful. He, especially, expresses the FEAR felt by the people of the island, as well. I believe him to be Aruban, but, not Arawak.

I don’t think his writings were EVER meant to be picked apart, dissected word for word, but rather was written to reveal a “secret” without anyone being able to detect him.

Well, Kaye (#131), my opinion about who Simian/Shango was, or may have been, isn’t worth more than anyone else’s. I think that it MIGHT have been Jossy Mansur … but if I had to bet money, I’d say it probably was someone working with Joran or other assailants who wanted to feed their psychopathic longing for importance.

And the only way they have to attract world attention is the notoriety of involvement in Natalee’s case.

Remember, in the case of Jack the Ripper, the Whitechapel murderer of 1888, the police received hundreds of letters and cards that purported to be from him.

Most of them can be ruled out. Some writers on the case say that ALL of them can be ruled out.
I don’t know about that, but it’s clear that there were then (as now) a number of people whose mental stability was not too great.

Now we’re in the internet age. I think it’s clear that Simian/Shango knew something, or at least followed the case closely, but I still think that if they were “on the side of the angels,” and really wanted to provide answers, they could and would have given some straightforward answers to the authorities.

While I’m ranting, in a post above I said:

“if this had been an ‘ordinary’ date-rape drug case gone wrong, then the sensible thing for Aruba to do would be to solve it and get it behind them.”

There’s nothing ‘ordinary’ about these crimes, of course. My point being: we all, or most of us, believe that there has been and continues to be a cover-up in Aruba. If we are right, then it would seem that something bigger than these three punk kids is involved.

brie on
April 6th, 2008 1:17 pm

Jasper I propose the next time you choose your meaning’s a little more carefully. Might I remind you….your the one that said he will walk free.

So the defense can invite up to 500 guests, like the judge is really going to question that many people

Bring on the Mountain Boys that Joran got into fights with, more than once

Bring on the prison warden that has known Joran since he was a kid and wasn’t surprised that was in jail

Bring on Joran’s younger brother he beat up

Bring in the guy he threw off the bridge

Bring in the girls Joran has raped

Bring in Koen and Sander

Bring in Straaten for giving the documents to Paulus

Bring in the hotel personnel that saw Joran hanging around the pool

Bring in Posner for giving a 17 yr old a line of credit and allowing him to drink and gamble

it’s no wonder that crappy island hasnt vacated … evacuated… people live in fear of those that should be protecting them… I am sure there are so many that would love to leave there but do not have the means..

makes me wonder how many more witnesses will disappear before this all plays out… if some already have disappeared… what’s to stop them.. how scarry it must be to live on that island… criminals run rampid… no law and order… what a false sense of security….

brie on
April 6th, 2008 2:20 pm

People died very close to the date of Natalee’s disappearance:

Jalitza Marie Wever June 2, 2005 43 yrs old

Edmond Werleman June 4, 2005 35 yrs old

Kerwin Goijla June 4, 2005 17 yrs old

Would be interesting to find out where these people worked and how they died….

“if this had been an ‘ordinary’ date-rape drug case gone wrong, then the sensible thing for Aruba to do would be to solve it and get it behind them.”

There’s nothing ‘ordinary’ about these crimes, of course. My point being: we all, or most of us, believe that there has been and continues to be a cover-up in Aruba. If we are right, then it would seem that something bigger than these three punk kids is involved.

As I remember, the traditional interpretation was that “Mary” was Natalee and “the lamb” was Joran.

The latter, presumably, being the “sacrificial lamb,” leading some to think that he might be taking the rap for others.

Another slant on this all …

“the lamb” is, in the Bible, often used as a symbol for Christ.

(No, I’m not comparing Joran and Christ; hold on!)

And there’s another “Mary” — Mary Magdalen, who I believe was a “fallen woman” who became a devout Christian and, as such, was redeemed.

And as late as the 19th century, “Magdalens” was a term commonly used to describe prostitutes. There were ‘Magdalen societies’ and such in Victorian Britain.

Could anyone think that an alternative reading of the Shango stuff … one that I don’t think has been suggested, perhaps with good reason … is that Joran’s “love” redeemed Natalee?

(It wasn’t “love” at all, of course.)

What I’m getting at … WHO would be interested in promoting such absolute garbage?

I don’t know … but I do know that in the Dr. Phil tapes, Deepak made the most outrageous remarks about how Natalee acted and dressed like a slut. I don’t think that even Joran used such offensive language.

And since Deepak was under suspicion at the time, there was no plausible reason for him to do this.
It points to some kind of emotional upset, or worse, that only implicates him further.

(Contrast this to Joran’s putting out the story … hey, I wasn’t even interested in Natalee … she was interested in me, but I was going after somebody else. Makes sense that he’d try to dissociate himself from her, doesn’t it?)

What I’m trying to get at … it could be that there is some kind of psychopathic self-justification going on here. I don’t really believe it … but it could tie in with these otherwise inexplicable statements by Deepak.

And no, I don’t think that Deepak was Simian or Shango; his English isn’t up to it. But just possibly, some of the ‘Pimps’ were involved in all this, for reasons that elude me.

I’m just throwing this out as a possible idea … probably I’ve forgotten some parts of the Simian/Shango stuff that would disprove this.

kiltie65 on
April 6th, 2008 3:15 pm

Wonder what the predominant religion is on Aruba? Voodoo? I doubt the Van der Sloots belonged to any organized faith, otherwise they may have had some good counsel on the Godly thing to do to right this wrong, rather than continue on the pigheaded course they are on…deny, deny, deny (or lie, lie, lie) and hope it goes away. Van Stratten gave Joran the option of 3 years in the pokey, or 3 years in a mental hospital at the beginning. By evading this new lawsuit, Joran will probably get his 3 year term in the mental hospital anyway, and hopefully finish off Mama and Papa in the process.

brie on
April 6th, 2008 3:20 pm

Read the headline on another blog that Kerwin Goijla died of a seizure just 4 days after Natalee….Joran would know what would cause a seizure, now wouldn’t he….do you suppose that there is more cover-up besides Natalee….wonder if Jossy could do some research on this for us…..or maybe there are some old postings out there….

Do you remember what was said when some tourists uncovered a carcass under the sand near the fallen bridge? They said that he/she was an old sailor from the 1700′s that had drowned at sea. They also said that the reason it’s limbs and head were missing was because of grave robbers who like to collect the bones of the dead… they called it a Voo-Doo practice.

But… the leading religion in Aruba IS Arawak who’s practices are to sacrifice a human being and eat the body parts, limb by limb. Remember Pitbull? Ripped apart and cooked (they said burned) on an open fire.

Don’t take my word for it… do your research. They DON’T believe in Jesus, or his principles. They have their own gods and spirits to whom they make their atonement… and again, Shango used word association. Their religious practices, their history dates back to the year 10 A.D.

Again, I don’t think that there’d be any reason for Joran or his pimps to write such a story unless it was meant to help…. not hinder. Whoever Shango may be, I must admit that there are some things written that reminds me of an old man in a cave with an opium pipe… but many cultures and pagan beliefs sound foreign to me. But, when the history of Aruba coincides with his writings, I tend to listen. I threw out my copy of his writings, as it is meant to be. To learn and move on. The truth is not just going to walk up and tap us on the shoulder, we have to seek it to find it!

GHB (date rape drug) causes seisure, used before for Narcolepsy….can be bought online in diet pills….main religion of Aruba is Roman Catholic

brie on
April 6th, 2008 5:04 pm

Patti, I use google, I typed in the question, how did Kerwin Goijla die in Aruba June 2005….several points of interest popped up…the one I read said Natalee Case Discussion #731 2/14- The poor boy died of a “seizure” did someone ask his family if he had a problem with “seizures”.

Is blaming seizures as a cause of death the way they commit murder. I think this is really suspicious. Just like why did they keep asking Natalee’s family if she had a history of seizures. So they could blame it on her health history.

It was said that Joran offered Kerwin money to keep his mouth shut…..maybe that’s why Paulus made the withdrawal at the bank.

Remember, too, these tapes (Chicago Videos) were played on television in Aruba. Perhaps, Shango was the only one that was willing to tell us what we were looking at.
___________________
SM: No, the Aru-Bay videos (uploaded to google video by SM member Chicago_510) were NOT played on televison in Aruba..where did you get that idea? They were on the Aru-Bay website only. As far as I know Shango and Simian never referred to those videos at all. (klaasend)

The Sloot’s are going to keep it up and somebody is going to royally dispose of this family…..they have caused nothing but trouble and continue to do so….Joran did it….if Paulus is connected to the drug lords their lives don’t mean anything to them…..better off dead. Who knows what all he is involved in…but when you have a close friend like Posner…. go to Boycott Aruba–Justice for Natalee, November 12, 2006, Scumbags of Aruba Part 1–Natalee Holloway….

brie on
April 6th, 2008 5:37 pm

Patrick sparked Joran’s interest…..the criminal mind just like his father….I guess he thought Daddy would approve….so Paulus sends him off to college which he attended for 1 day with a cd and porno tapes….does that tell you what this family is about….

I remember reading, just a few days ago, that these tapes were released to the media in Aruba and resulted in the release of the two guards.

If I’m wrong about this,
thank you for the correction.

.

Question is:

What do lions do to lambs?

And what is wonton… food.

And what does it mean to “feed the gods”

History shows us what is meant by feeding the
gods, at least in Aruba. How many of us had
even heard of the Arawak Nation before his
writings? If we are to take him at his word,
the reason the Arawak Nation would be afraid
of being crushed is because of their ancient
religious practices… or should I say
embarrassed, then afraid?
_________________________
SM: You are wrong. I have no idea who would say such a thing. In one of the videos the background is a radio interview with Mickey John. The Aru-bay people believed the security guards were wrongly arrested however, those videos were never shown on Aruban TV. (klaasend)

didnt Shango have something to do with the Black Panthers one time?????
___________________
SM: ??????? Where do you guys come up with this stuff?? (klaasend)

brie on
April 6th, 2008 6:14 pm

Anita doesn’t act like a mother….want to see my underwear….what to give me fat, sloopy kisses Joran, want to describe Natalee’s underwear that couldn’t of been seen in the dark….Kalpoes may have pulled off a dirt road into a place where they took American girls, filmed and raped them….Natalee maybe came into consciousness and got out of car and ran…..fell onto the rocks and had a head injury….I do not think they went to the beach….Natalee in what ever mind control she had knew she was in trouble and used it her best ability. This isn’t about a girl that meets a guy and immediately wants to sex with him…

No really, Klassend, back in the 60s, I believe there was a connection to the BPS…
_____________________
SM: HUH?? Back in the 60′s there was a connection to to Shango and the BP’s? lol (klaasend)

brie on
April 6th, 2008 6:42 pm

Some people in Aruba are dirty and rotten to the core…..and everybody is sick and tired of it…your liars, thieves and you represent the ultimate corruption…. what you have done to the Natalee family and the people of Aruba is to be represented in court…..enough is enough….get Joran’s coward ass out of the mental institution and have him face the judge and answer the questions under oath……Joran was on a mission of rape and Natalee was his victim…along with the Kalpoes…you people make me sick!!!!!!! Kalpoes another big nothing in Aruba…a couple of brothers driving around in a car and showing porno videos….Natalee trusted you………….!!!!!

It’s enough to make you sick, isn’t it? That’s why I take frequent breaks from this subject.

I read a census report that Aruba is, like 95% Roman Catholic, too. But I didn’t see Voo Doo as an option. So the question becomes: How many Roman Catholics in Aruba practice Voodooism and would an Arawak admit it to the State Department?

How does Shango and Simian represent anything…give your information to our FBI….it’s not a time for riddles and guessing games…you can remain anonymous and still send your information to the FBI….I think it is a complete joke…..it probably comes from Anita and the cuckoo nest….
____________________
SM: All the Shango and Simian posts were sent to the FBI back in 2005 (klaasend)

**************************************
A New Girl on April 6th, 2008 7:25 am

Comments on post #137 & Red—

I will never, ever forget seeing the report w/Tim Miller when Dave Holloway was in the landfill, on a steaming hot day in a pit of trash..piece by piece looking for anything…and sign or clue of his daughter. He had been in there for days, and I think it was Nat’s B-Day…and Tim Miller said to him, “Dave, come on, get out of there”. He reached his hand down to bring a broken father up. Tim knows the experience firsthand…where physically you just keep going against all odds.

It is seared in my mind. And, I try- as hard as I can to imagine the dignity, the determination and the strength and committment of this Father and what he has suffered through. It is so devastating and real, brings a rush of adrenalin coursing through your viens. Of course, what Beth has also endured for almost 3 years. People, that is it right there—I will follow this case until I know that the rotten heart inside of Joran Van Der Sloot- his rotten Father and loser Mother and the 2 slimy Kalpoe Brothers do not beat again. If they survive all this, which most of them will- the only satisfaction we will derive is knowing their lives have been forever adversely affected…much more severly than they are today. As cruel as that sounds, it is only just after all the havoc these individuals have wreaked on so many quality people. A Father and Mother’s love…a teenage girls life snuffed out so harshly. Dear, dear Natalee–you did not die in vain.

-J4N

misskatie on
April 6th, 2008 7:20 pm

OK
I read in Dave’s book that he .
.. had heard that the kalpoe brothers had been asked to leave their country … deported.. for crimes of rape and offenses against women..oviously
they have history…. they are mean and disrespectful to women.dispicable idiots…..they dont say to much and keep a low profile but when they speak … venom… comes out of their mouth…they love to over power innocent girls…
Joran would like to flatter hiself to think that girls seek and desire him (YUK) when in reality he has to drug and rape a girl to get sex.. HE CALLS THAT LOVE MAKING … SICKO… I get the strong impression …. by reading between the lines that he likes rough sex … makes him feel real macho as I am sure … his pimps watch…how sick is that… I also dont think that natalie was taken to the beach. I think they had another agenda planned out for her… they began the formation of their plans while sitting at the casino.across from natalie….. pauulus was in control of the pre-meditated plan…my guess is that . if people are disappearing it must be for knowing to much… geez why dont they take joran out he is the one they better worry about… his mouth.is dangerous. it has the ability to cause more danger for his family than any of the other people who were sworn to keep their mouths shut and paid to do so,.than permanentely silenced..Joran is a walking time bomb… JUSTICE FOR NATALIE;;

I would like to thank Richard and Patti for their interpetation of shango… it’s INTERESTING to listen to everyones ideas and comments…

Katie

brie on
April 6th, 2008 7:23 pm

Scared Monkeys….it would be nice to know what the FBI determined as a result of the Shango and Simian reports….Thanks!!!!!
______________________
SM: The FBI doesn’t talk about it’s finding. I doubt we’ll ever know (klaasend)

Patti (#156) says: “I don’t think that there’d be any reason for Joran or his pimps to write such a story unless it was meant to help…. not hinder.”

Well, I think that we can be certain that Joran and crew have no interest in helping any investigations find answers.

I haven’t looked at the Shango/Simian stuff in quite some time … but from what I remember, I get the feeling that it was, if not ‘jeering’ in tone, phrased in such an enigmatic way that it could mean almost anything.

Once again … if someone had solid information, and wanted to help out, why in God’s name wouldn’t they just come out and say what they knew … and tell it to people who have the power to do something with the information?

Why post enigmatic and elusive phrases on an Internet blog … unless your intention is to get people slavering after what you have to say?

My point is: it seems to me that there must be some psychological impetus behind this stuff. What is it? Who is manipulating whom, and why?

The only explanation that makes sense to ME is that somebody was trying to keep the case in the public eye. And to attract a “following,” as it were.

So who could that be?

In my mind, either someone who was whacked out (for example, someone to whom “Natalee’s spirit” came and dictated messages), someone who was out-and-out playing with people (there are such sick animals), or the culprits playing some kind of game with the world to feed their own psychopathic inclinations.

Does that make sense? We have heard Joran, on the tapes, talking about how stupid the Kalpoes are, how stupid the Aruban police are (we agree there!), and, by implication, how he is the ‘untouchable master criminal.’

Does he, or do he and his associates, really believe this? I certainly don’t know.

But my reference in the post above to Mary Magdalene and the “lamb,” who is both the sacrificial lamb and the lamb of God (i.e., Christ), suggests to me that some kind of bizarre psychological tension may be at work here ….

MissKatie (#153) … Don’t look at my ruminations above as information. They’re just speculation, and claim to be nothing more.

I’m just one man trying to make some sense out of all of this. I get the sense out of the Simian/Shango stuff that somebody is trying to tease and play with those people who are dedicated to getting answers in this case.

If I’m right, the motive must be psychological.
The question is … who, and why?

Since it’s been some time since the Simian/Shango messages began coming to this forum, would it be possible for you to post a kind of brief review of what you know about them? (No speculation.)

Among the possible items:

1. When did these messages start coming, and when did they stop?
2. Did they come at regular intervals?
3. Was there any pattern that you noticed, or inferred?
4. Were you told in advance about them, or did they simply start showing up?
5. Were all the messages from the same computer?
(I understand that some, most, or all of them came from Florida; that may not be accurate. I’m not asking you to identify the computer or computers, of course.)
6. To your knowledge, did Simian/Shango ever try to communicate with you in any other way?
7. Did the messages simply stop, or were you told in advance that they would be ending?

There are more questions we can think of, I am sure, but these would be nice to know. Obviously, I don’t want you to say anything that you don’t feel comfortable in answering. Thanks.

________________________
SM: Richard – Shango was posting from Florida and Simian from Aruba. Simian posted first then Shango came along. The messages stopped at SM around the end of June 2005. I do know that Simian posted at some other sites but not sure about Shango. No, they never tried to communicate to us in any other way (to my knowledge).

I don’t agree with you, at all. I have read the posts, studied them with dictionary, encylopedia and the internet in hand. There are some things that I don’t understand, so I stuck to the things that he/she said the most. Many people with some Bible knowledge, such as myself, understand the ramifications from his words, the meanings; and through careful research, I believe that I, among countless others have come to the same conclusion. Difference being that many don’t come here to talk about it under unfriendly surroundings. Either you believe it or you don’t, but reading Shango was the first job that I was given upon entering the forum and I took it seriously.

For those that DON’t believe that there could be a secret organization that try to steal the souls, virtue and innocence from others should take a look around. Cannibalism is alive and well and is practiced in several different countries, everyday. There are countless tribes of Indians, some that still have, yet, to be discovered throughout South America… many of them peaceful, but there’s always an objection to the rule. When I said that Shango used the letter “O” in many of his writings, usually at the beginning is because I feel that this was his method of quieting his soul and concentrating, solely, on his message. I believe in modern prophets and in the powers that are all around us. I also believe that there are many dimensions that co-exist within our own that we cannot see. There IS evil in this world and Aruba is one of them.

Shango says that they didn’t build sand castles, which some interpret as meaning that they never went to the beach near the Marriott, but how do you explain the cell phone calls that were made from that area during the time in question, by the people that we, as well, as the Police have interviewed and feel have SOMETHING to do with what happened to Natalee? How do we explain the eyewitness reports that say that they saw three men put the body of a girl in the back of a white truck car there? How do we explain the fisherman’s cage being stolen that night by three men driving a white truck? But most of all, how do we explain what is described as a human skull in one of those traps resting on the sea floor… but most telling is the statement made by the youngest brother of Joran about what happened in their bathtub.

I’m optimistic. I think that there were markers and those markers have been picked up and there is no telling HOW many cages have been found with skulls in them. We don’t know; and, perhaps, it’s not our business to know. But, surely, when you’re talking about the activities of a group of cock-roaches, there is no telling how many people have died in the same manner.

Human trafficking, yes, they have it on the island. It wasn’t long ago that a boat was caught with illegals in it; but, there is no telling what happens to the ones that DON’t get discovered.

Not long ago, there was a man that was convicted of hiring Indians in South America to kill his wife and shrink her head. They did, and he is being charged with her murder. As someone said earlier, this is a third world country, a country that is not familiar with the modern ways of the U.S. and other “advanced” countries. It is a country that, in many ways, operates as a Colony; where only a selected few have the right and the means to do whatever they please and get away with it. But, have you ever thought that, perhaps, this is the reason that Aruba did not want us searching their waters, shorelines or garbage dumps? How horrified they must have been knowing that there was a good chance that “something” might be discovered.

Obviously, the number of bones that have made their way to the beach, the bodies found, consisting only of carcasses and claimed to be either ancient Indians, or early explorers, is not a good enough explanation for me. I don’t think that a body buried in the sand among the sun and salt of the sea will be preserved for over 200 years… I don’t buy it.

I think we need to take a closer look at Aruba and how an island of people may be affected by a group of Ministers that not only act in an indecent manner; but, openly, admit to be tied to a tribe of Indians with the reputation of being man-eaters.

I, strongly, believe that Oduber’s expectation was to renew The Nation, and liberate it, fully, from the long arm of The Netherlands that had been ruling the island and placing its’ own standards on people that only want to carry out their heritage, their culture and atone their sins in the way in which they believe. Is that an excuse, certainly not… but it is a possibility. Obviously, his telling his people that he is proud to be an Arawak, may have been an encouragement to resort to their previous ways and they got careless.

They, in my opinion, have been illegally trafficking women and children to their island for years, with an evil purpose in mind. IMHO and perhaps it took an American to draw attention to them, reveal them and, hopefully, stop them.

I’ve lived most my life on the west coast, and not once do I remember anyone finding a drowned explorer in the sand… not to mention bones washing ashore. They had to come from somewhere and the way these bones are swept into a museum and labled as “ancient” history is bothersome to me. It is hard to believe, for one thing; and the same people that cover the crime against Natalee Holloway are covering the truth about those bones and carcasses, as well.

They said Pitbull died of a suicide… does it sound like an suicide to you? How does one cut his arms and legs off, stab himself hundreds of times in the torso, remove his head and throw himself upon a fire? No, indeed, it is not possible… but, more importantly, why would the officials lie?

I believe their secrets, their victims and their lies could reach all the way from here to the Nebula, the Towers of Creation, without even a stretch… and, unfortunately, Natalee became another one that was captured and put in a cage where she was kept until the stars were right and that she was not the only victim that night.

But, you still have to ask yourself: How does a CLERK and SCHOOL TEACHER support three kids in private school, live on an island where the cost of living is astronomical and after all those legal fees, keep two kids in foreign countries in college?

Even the best of attorneys would have a hard time with that one, not to mention a back-ward piece of crap, like Paulus. He is part of the political system that we describe as corrupt, and for good reason… he fit right in with a numb conscience and a desire to be rich, powerful and untouchable!

richard #140…..i have to disagree with you Richard, IMHO i think your opinion is valued greatly by all of the posters here…..you’re apparently a very informed and intelligent person.

jimbo on
April 7th, 2008 7:29 am

ARUBA riba, ariba ARUBA

un tin nada pa kibre!

PS> Patti #154==> ur a fool!
ARAWAK are indiaans and not a religion and they weren’t cannibal. those were the CARIB indiaans wo didn’t really life on Aruba neither!! get your facts right

boywonder on
April 7th, 2008 7:34 am

God speed Beth! We will support you with our faith that the truth will be known.

As far as how honorable PVDS is…dont ever forget that he couldnt pass the exam, drug test, pyscological exam etc…to become a judge. The Dutch knew he was a defect/judge reject long before anyone in Aruba…even his wife..knew.

Joran institutionalized?? LOL R u sure it’s not rehab??? Anyone know if the Dutch rehab the drug addicts or do they all go to mental institutions?

Moderator Klaasen posted above that the messages ended in June 2005 … meaning that from beginning to end, they lasted about a month.

The first posts, Simian, were sent from Aruba; the latter, by Shango, were from Florida.

This in itself opens up avenues for investigation.
If we can track the movements of some of the key persons involved or implicated in Natalee’s saga….

Florida does seem to play a major role, don’t you think? Paulus van der Scum went to Florida, ostensibly to tell the school that Joran had planned to go to that he would not be going after all.

Does that even begin to make sense? Someone has to go from Aruba to Florida to pass on a message to a school?

A lot of other Arubans seemed interested in Florida; we are told that the Kalpoes wanted to study there as well.

And, of course, the West Palm Beach tourism bureau hired who to run its tourism? You got it … a guy whose claim to fame was his “success” in (as HE put it) suppressing the impact on tourism from Natalee’s disappearance.

And I believe that Jossy Mansur lives in Florida as well.

Where does all of this leave us? As before, puzzled and uncertain. But the shift in posting from Aruba to Florida to me suggests a definite idea.

Again, I’m just one man … I don’t claim to know the answer. But it seems to me most likely that these postings are not from someone who really wants to get answers, but rather from someone who wants to draw attention to this case.

This sort of thing is exactly my point. If you had solid information in this case, and wanted to help provide answers, would you send messages such as this?

This could mean anything.

It could mean they didn’t play at childish games.

It could mean they didn’t have time to play around.

It could mean they never went to the beach at all.

It could mean that they have built REAL castles, or legal and other defenses, rather than flimsy excuses that wouldn’t hold up in court.

It could mean just about anything. We’d have to look at the sequence of posts, and what came before and after, to see if it amplified a prior message or introduced a new one.

It could also mean that someone is in a kind of trance, taking in “messages from Natalee’s spirit,” or it could mean that somebody is rolling on the floor laughing, trying to con all the people who are speculating on what it means.

I don’t know. To my mind, the whole thing is evocative of that Dan Brown book, “The DaVinci Code.”

What I don’t get from this is the feeling that the poster or posters:

1. Has real information.
2. Wants sincerely to help give answers.

I could be wrong, of course. Lots of people believe that this person or persons is/are trying to say something. My question: why not come right out and say it? (Assuming, as I said before, that this wasn’t done.)

Your guess is as good as mine. I’m not taking after you, you understand … just saying that I think there must be some psychological key to all this.

too bad we dont have a war room where we could get together, spread all the information out, run down to Aruba, check it out ourselves….

kiltie65 on
April 7th, 2008 4:24 pm

I think Paulus is going to present a mighty defense in this upcoming legal matter in the Netherlands…he’s not fighting to save Joran, he’s trying to absolve himself and Anita from complicity. Joran will have to take the fall…finally. You know his other two sons in Florida…the older one in college. If either of those boys marries an American citizen while in college and applies for citizenship here (just a 3 year wait if married to an American), they can then petition to bring immediate family members over here (Mum, Dad and big doofus Joran…what an ugly thought.) Betcha’ Aruba would like to see the last of ‘em, ditto the Netherlands, hope Florida ins’t in their plans!!!

Mary,UK on
April 7th, 2008 4:39 pm

Can anyone fill me in???? just visited some other sites on Natalees case!!! does anyone know what Deepaks e-mail to a female friend, made around five days after the disapearence,what did it say??? who exactly was it sent to???

these emails are also the topic for the book “Into The Deep” by Dr. Andrew Hodges a forensic pathologist. he tries to decode them, and he does to the best of his professional knowledge,however, the book is a little hard to follow but interesting nonetheless.

What? You wanted Shango to run to the police with information? This thread, alone, shows the consequences of that! Every witness that came forward was either deported or KILLED!

.

Miss Katie:

Joran’s brother said they cut

off her head in the bathtub!

.

The Florida thing, it’s okay. I just wanted to make the point that AFTER all the legal fees paid by Paulus for the people that he wanted to keep in his pocket (we all know how expensive that can be), he still had the money to send one kid to The Netherlands for school and the other to the U.S.

.

misskatie on
April 7th, 2008 9:48 pm

wow patti
the brother witnessed that
how totaly gruesome…
omg that seems like somethingthing ritualistic.. like they are used to doing.. pauulus had to of been there.. how horrific

Are you saying that the practices of sacrificing human beings for atonement of sin, would not be considered a religious practice?

.

Question is:

What do lions do to lambs?

And what is wonton… food.

And what does it mean to “feed the gods”

History shows us what is meant by feeding the
gods, at least in Aruba. How many of us had
even heard of the Arawak Nation before Shangos
writings? If we are to take him at his word,
the reason the Arawak Nation would be afraid
of being crushed is because of their ancient
religious practices… or should I say
embarrassed, then afraid?

We have gone full circle. The fact that one of the Sloots told Beth about the bathtub, and the fact that the Persistance may have found a CAGE, perhaps the one stolen that night, at the bottom of the sea with a skull and clothing in it; is much more than coincidence, IMHO.

“It was thought that the Arawaks were friendly, until some men were left behind on Aruba, when Columbus visited there. When he returned, his men had vanished…”

??? you are comparing things from a few hundreds years ago. where a explorer left a few crewman behind in a unfriendly country and you are surprised that they were killed (IF they were killed).

if you read history you would think that the South American nations would have been better off if they killed all explorers

brie on
April 8th, 2008 7:25 am

I have never heard of or read anything about Natalee’s head being cut off….where did this come from…..I can’t even comprehend that….it’s horrible enough she was drugged and raped but to cut off her head……

Richard or Vicki…..you two seem to be well informed on the case….have you ever heard anything about this….

I cant comprehend it either and more so that the sloots would tell beth something like that.. it would mean an omission of guilt that natalie was in their home..
reminds me of jeffrey dohmer and we all know what happened to him…in prison…
natalies parents have been through so much behind these people…..makes me sick to my stomach to think that they would have the odasity to tell her that they be-headed natalie… can you just imagine the torment it caused her………..Joran was sick in the head long before this happened.. and just now they commit him… all because of legal ramifications to cover their asses..
I was looking at the pictures of all the people involved.. at the forum and my goodness.. Joran is the only one that resembles… frankenstein… his built and that horrible ugly forehead of his.. he almost looks like a child born out of incest… between family members.. he just looks different…
patti
so I am assuming than that if one of his brothers helped him … (the scene in the bathtub)it was the oldest of the two living at home.. not lorenzo (pauulus love child.). or should I say lust child… how many more are out there. evil spawns of his…
pauulus looks sweatty and nasty… but than look at his wife..

justice for natalie will continue….

Sharon Chicago on
April 8th, 2008 11:12 am

I would hope that one of Joran’s brothers would eventually tell all… I am sure they overhead things said that their little ears should not have heard. Maybe they are unlike their father, mother and brother Joran and have one once of decency in them???? Don’t know, that is yet to be seen!!

kaye on
April 8th, 2008 1:58 pm

“He who passively accepts evil is as much involved with it as he who helps to perpetuate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it. ”

Martin Luther King Jr.

Mary,UK on
April 8th, 2008 5:01 pm

Thanks Kaye and MissKatie, I have just ordered the book mentioned and read the link, What do you make of them???? seems strange to me, would one really go into such detail with a friend by email??? seems to me he was maybe instructed to send it, its ridiculous!!!

I get angrier and angrier each day by this case the more you read about it the more disgusting it gets, what the hell is the state department doing on this case, PLEASE!!!! BEG them to DEMAND answers, the fact that a crime remains unsolved is NOT the issue, the issue is that people IN AUTHORITY actively thwarted JUSTICE FOR NATALEEE!!!

I like to think i am a good person but i hope the devil descends on ARUBA, take them ALL to HELL!!!!

misskatie on
April 8th, 2008 9:38 pm

mary,uk

the island is evil and more than anything vandersloot is pure evil.. knowing that beth and dave were besides themselves with worry and panic.. they had her in their home and told many bold faces lies…joran had many behaviour issues its not until joran got into such trouble did they put him in the nut hut… to protect him as they have always done… they made frankenstein turn into jeckle and hyde.. wonder if theres blood on their rug… DNA… pauulus and anita will apy dearly for this one…
and so will those two kalpoe sandpigs who talked of natalie worse than what I am calling them.. I read that both the brothers were asked to leave their country for similar crimes against woman.. its hear say but seems logical.. characteristic of them… they are all sadistic…pauulus.. joran… the two sandpigs and the rest involved…

kaye on
April 9th, 2008 9:26 am

#212 MaryUK…..the devil decended on that island a long time ago. it took the form of something evil and sinister. IMO, the corrupt government. there are way too many people who know what happened to natalee for an island so small in population, way too many. i believe there are good,decent, hard working people on the island that know exactly what happened to her but the fear of harm coming to them or their families keeps their mouth shut. there is an evil and sinister presence…..it takes the form of the government. and it is bound to the drug trade. money. greed. power. evil begets evil. it trickles down. fear of retribution or death keeps most people quiet. i pray that someone will have the courage to come forward and let the truth out of the bag! the dominos will fall. but i’m also a realist. aruba has been this way for a long time. i feel there have been many more unexplained and unanswered deaths on this island. no one talks. they just sweep it aside it and move on. i think it has become a way of life or business as usual. BUT…..the only consolation is that one day all involved with causing harm to natalee will stand before their maker and have to answer to the charges put before them. there will be no more lies. He knows all. they will burn in hell.
that’s not much justice or natalee is it? god bless you natalee if you’re looking down on us all here, trying to find answers and the truth for you. never give up.

It seems to me that there was a situation that the Sloot family was being interviewed when the younger brother came out of his room and asked who they were talking about. His mother aswered, “We’re talking about Natalee Holloway” at which time the boy answered, “We chopped her head off in the bathtub, remember, Mom?” Or something like that. I believe it was caught on tape.

PLEASE correct me if I’m wrong; but, that’s the way I remember it.
_______________________
SM: I’ve never heard anything like that. The only thing I remember is earlly in the case there alegedly was a remark by Valentijn on his myspace site, something about seeing NH with her head cut off. I never saw that so to me it’s an internet rumor. (klaasend)

The way it’s written in the Columbus log, suggests that the men were killed and eaten. Just as the Free Masons that existed two hundred years ago, so do the Quakers who were also present on those islands at the time… and both those groups still exist, today. Is it THAT unreasonable to think that the Arawak people still exist, as well?

Take a look at some of the emblems displayed by the Free Masons from England; they STILL resemble a brotherhood with the Arawak. Two hundred years is not that long, maybe 4 generations at the most (each living 50 years). However, we know that the life expectancy among Arwaks are greater than that. Do the math instead of accusing other people of lying or discrediting the detailed research of others.

Dolf on
April 10th, 2008 1:28 am

Patti, so we are using a log written by a captain who without a doubt used it to make him look better…and you already say it SUGGESTS that they were eaten.

and I believe that there is a tribe called that, I just don’t buy all the cannibal stuff.

can anyone tell me WHY!!!! the State Department are doing NOTHING!!!! Are the American public not demanding they get involved!!!

misskatie on
April 10th, 2008 8:13 pm

Patti

anita knew of it than if her son said that.. omg sickos.. could it be possible they are part of a group that practices cannabalism or withcraft.. you know that happends in our country so I am curious if possibly they do it.. ritualistic.. sounds like it???? PATTI???

he said……..

We chopped her head off in the bathtub, remember, Mom?”

so she was supposed to be in the nl… was this when she returned and was part in this ritual…

the kids sound like this is common practice..

misskatie on
April 10th, 2008 8:14 pm

what role models they are.. and she teachs school… how scarry is that.. sick also… makes me sick..

misskatie on
April 10th, 2008 8:15 pm

no wonder frankensteins sick in the head… but if theres incest in families kids come out wacked….

Anyone that believes that we live in a world of teddy bears and paper dolls need to wake up. The world is not a safe place to be… anywhere. But the reason that we’re here is to be instrumental in showing the Aruban Government, as well as others, that we are not going to ignore the violence subjected to our children because of the values that we, as responsible parents, instill in them. Americans don’t own the world, but if we buy a ticket to a destination, act in harmony with their laws, then, we deserve to be protected just as any other citizen of that country does. Americans are not expendable and a child should not have to pay the ultimate price, because of either the Anti-American sentiment that seems to run rampant in the underground, or because of the corruption that comes from being in a small country that protects their own.

We act fairly when we are confronted with crime, even when that crime is committed by our own servicemen, whom we hold in high esteem. But even they are not above the law as was evident in the prosecution of the men that gang raped a young girl in Okanawa. Fair is fair and there is no room for games when it comes to the safety of our people, whether they be Dutch, Scottish, Irish, Japanese, Chinese, or African, etc.

A country that calls itself a democracy, needs to act like one instead of showing bias to their own politically connected families that think that their actions should go unpunished, simply, because of the people they know.

Dolf, if you can’t understand that, you will never understand anything that I say or do. And, yes, I am looking into the ‘so called rumor’ and will be the first to admit if I was wrong. The only ones that know for sure are the ones that were present and many of them are not the easiest people to reach, especially, with all the legal maneuvering that is going on regarding this case.

Natalee was a high-school girl, that’s all; and she never deserved for her murder to end up in the middle of some political arena. She deserves to go home; and while I agree with Jugs that her death will mean life for millions of others, just like her; our main objective is to bring justice against those responsible and return her to her family.

The reason that the U.S. State Department is dragging their feet, in listing Aruba as unsafe and insisting that they complete the reports regarding human rights violations and money laundering operations over the past several years; is because the U.S. has an air to land surveilance base in Aruba. Chavez, who is a modern day tyrant in the region who supports the trafficking of men, women, children, drugs, oil and anything that he can get his hands on; has disallowed the U.S. to monitor his airspace for drug cartel. The U.S. doesn’t want to lose their ties with Aruba and ultimately lose the base… which it pays Aruba millions of dollars a year to operate.

I know it sounds like political rubbish; but that is why many Americans feel sold out by their own country when it comes to the Natalee Holloway missing person case. Before the release of Aruba from the Antilles, and the election of Oduber, crime against Americans in Aruba was almost unheard of. But, with the “good ol’ boys” who are allies with Chavez are in power, it is a very sticky situation that the State Department doesn’t want to get stuck in. I think they are leaving it up to the Netherlands to straighten things out and to slap the hands of the powers that be in Aruba into subjection. However, with Chavez whispering in the ear of Prime Minister Nelson Oduber, who are both Arawak; he seems to think that the island of Aruba is indespensible and that his leadership of the Aruban people is one that will continue under the free-wheeling power of the politically incorrect.

.

Boycott!

misskatie on
April 10th, 2008 11:22 pm

how sad very sad .. that the last words that her friends heard her yell out the window was.
.. ARUBA..
she was so happy … she was in an exotic island.. she was happy … her whole life ahead of her..If I could give my life for her to return to her parents I would… I have had a good life.. I would trade it for hers.. but since I cant I can at least join everyone in seeking JUSTICE FOR BETH AND DAVE…
. I also like what jug!! .. it rings loud and true.. it brought tears of sadness to my eyes.. … if only people would listen to his words and take heed..patti you are very informative … I truly enjoy yours and everyones comments.. this trajedy needs to brought to for the world to see… I am farely new here.and enjoy coming here and sharing.. and joining in the fight for justice….. I thank you all…

justice for natalee
our alll american girl
killed by a psychotic boy …
enabled by both parents… both 100% involved…

misskatie on
April 10th, 2008 11:24 pm

this tragedy needs to be brought to life
I like what jug said

sorry about the type-os it’s been a long day..

Mary,UK on
April 12th, 2008 5:06 pm

Thanks Patti, I did think the State Department would be leaning on the Netherlands to get to the bottom of this, I think if the pressure is put n Van Straaten then they could solve this case. By the way i noticed for the first time that today one of the UK national newspapers was carrying a full page promotion of Aruba, i will be e-mailing the author of this item to question why he didnt feel the need to include warnings of Drugs, rape, theft, murder and incompetent/corrupt police and government officials, tourists DESERVE ALL THAT THAT ISLAND HAS TO OFFER.

BOYCOTT ARUBA!!!!

misskatie on
April 12th, 2008 5:59 pm

PAULUS AND JORAN
Ruined the tourism in aruba… all that money that the mob spent on hotels and casinos…. for what?
for a little punk and his inept cant even be a judge dad to ruin it… it has caused more bad publicity and has lost millions in tourism dollars
I ask who would hold them that valuable that they would be worth loosing that much money?

misskatie on
April 12th, 2008 6:00 pm

CAN SOMEONE TELL ME

misskatie on
April 12th, 2008 9:02 pm

klaasend
I forgot where I posted that I didnt know what a colombian neck tie was.. I thought i was a special neck tie that was imported from colombia..
lol I feel like A fool .. I looked it up in wikipedia…

Wayne Millington on
May 5th, 2008 3:38 pm

I need to talk to Natalie Holloway’s mon about her daughter. I have information to crack this case open.

jans on
July 31st, 2010 7:57 am

Joran is innocnt. There is more and more evidencte that the Hollowaysfamily is guilty.