its all true what he is saying. I was talking to a friend from warner and its getting even worse out there. Now their signing artists to single deals.I guess its in your own hands now. You spend a year writing the best songs you can 10 to 20 grand to record mix and master all to give it away for free. Hmmmm

there is still plenty of money in touring and merchandise. When was the last time Kiss sold a record? 1977?
they have more money than anyone but the bealtes

Plenty of bands have gone out on the "retirement" tour without recording a new record and cashed in.
Sure if you don't have a following you can't make money

but since when does any one have the right to make money in the music business anyway? it's not a given.
just shut up and be happy anyone even listens to your music, money is just an added bonus
be thankful you can still play and you ca nrecord. If you don't make any money too bad. Join the club
and shut your mouth

Yep, I guess you're right. Might as well become insurance sales employees.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rack gear

Are they supporting themselves with a professional career with those smaller slices? I doubt it. Billy didn't have a day job...

Yes/No. Some of them had professional jobs that they were sick of, and finally saw an outlet. They backed off because they realized there were ways to finally make a little bit of supplemental income off music.

Some of them deliver flowers, and still do, but now they also have a little bit of money coming from music, with a trip to the mailbox.

They are musicians that still want to be musicians in a couple of years, not working at Walmart.
Not many actually just follow the money, but money is necessary to eat, pay for electricity, buy and maintain gear, travel to gigs. just the basics like that.

2010 was worse than 2009, and 2011 might be flat to 1% up from 2010... all in all the industry has still lost over 60% of it's size from 1999...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camera

To me, the "new" formula has been established. It will still take a few more years for the rest of the sheep to follow...

which is what exactly? make music on a low budget PC in your bedroom, deliver flowers, pay tunecore $50 per year to put your album on itunes and maybe make $500 a year if you are lucky (not even enough to cover the PC/Recording Gear Costs) let alone any labor cost. great for hobbyists, sucks for anyone trying to have a real career.

2010 was worse than 2009, and 2011 might be flat to 1% up from 2010... all in all the industry has still lost over 60% of it's size from 1999...

which is what exactly? make music on a low budget PC in your bedroom, deliver flowers, pay tunecore $50 per year to put your album on itunes and maybe make $500 a year if you are lucky (not even enough to cover the PC/Recording Gear Costs) let alone any labor cost. great for hobbyists, sucks for anyone trying to have a real career.

They are musicians that still want to be musicians in a couple of years, not working at Walmart.
Not many actually just follow the money, but money is necessary to eat, pay for electricity, buy and maintain gear, travel to gigs. just the basics like that.

blues people where homeless that's how they got the feeling to write music.
now every musicians want to have a billion dollar house on the hills,and it is standard

2010 was worse than 2009, and 2011 might be flat to 1% up from 2010... all in all the industry has still lost over 60% of it's size from 1999...

which is what exactly? make music on a low budget PC in your bedroom, deliver flowers, pay tunecore $50 per year to put your album on itunes and maybe make $500 a year if you are lucky (not even enough to cover the PC/Recording Gear Costs) let alone any labor cost. great for hobbyists, sucks for anyone trying to have a real career.

I guess you're living in a different (older) world. Using 1999 as a reference does not support your claim.

My world of independent artists has only gotten better. But those numbers and graphs are hard to come by. Guess we'll know where to deliver flowers to.

blues people where homeless that's how they got the feeling to write music.
now every musicians want to have a billion dollar house on the hills,and it is standard

Chrisso doesn't get it. He thinks everyone on his level is entitled to make a living at music. Well he's wrong. No offense to Chis I know of his work and it is impressive but I personally know loads of musicians that are as good as him if not better and never made a dime, and ya know what? they are not in least bit bitter or resentful. Since some people look at misc as being art. Yeah really......

Looking back at my 'career' in music some of the worst musicians I played with made the most money. I never made a dime in music and I am not the least bit resentful of that aspect. Music is art. If you can make money at it, it's a bonus. If not ... oh well. That's life. Billy Corgan is a horrible vocalist who based on vocal talent should not have made a dime but that's life, he did

the world is a vampire..........

Musical talent is not a measure of monetary wealth, but is is surely a measure of your artistic wealth in the universe
a guy like corgan should be thankful he made $anything$ at all. He has talent but so does everyone else. He sings like a half dead coyote. He stole all his riffs from Iommi. But he was lucky

The chart is useless. It compares sales in 1999--the height of the artificially inflated CD boom.

Compare record sales in 1989 to sales in 2009 if you want a more accurate assessment.

That doesn't dispute that it's a harder time out there...I just hate the propaganda BS line that a)record sales halved in the 2000s while forgetting to mention them DOUBLING in the 90s and b) that Napster was the reason for the fail. It was "a" reason...but, not even the primary one, ehm...big box retail...ignoring long term for quarterly profits...selling/merging during the hyper CD replacement inflation knowing full well that sales would drop back off--the buyers didn't know that and tried to turn business practices on their ear to save their investments...

Maybe Billy Corgan should go play Vegas or small clubs or something like that like musicians have always had to do...I can't imagine who would want to see or hear him, but....

The good news, another thread exactly like all the others...

lol, honestly I didn't mind the Pumpkins when they were popular, but I hadn't thought much about them in 15 years until this thread and last week's butch vig thread. Billy Corgan and Smashing pumpkins are about as relevant as Gilligan island............

He should be thankful he made any money with that voice. Any other decade he would have been playing in bad Chicago cover bands and making $100 a show playing doobie brothers songs

I remember this d-bag yelling about how bad people needed labels to get the Pearl Jam's of the world out to them. People forget a few things- Skip James was located by sending a letter to the postmaster of Avalon because those revivalist guys heard the name of the town in a song. 30+ years of farming (after recording ceased post-depression) didn't screw with his music. I would certainly not compare him to Billy Corgan that fool who asked Pete Seeger for his guitar. Miles Davis considered himself the first black man to make big money in the industry, before that musicians generally got enough to get by and get high. Rock Stars are dicks and we could use a lot fewer of them. DIY now dubbed Indie was sparsely documented and payed for out of pocket because people gave a **** about some things in this country called music and community. Funny how few Jello Biafras you get post-matador (not to take anything from Fugazi) and how political action and anti-authoritarianism became as hip as herpes around the same time Nirvana created post-political profit punk. **** off, and take your unicorns with you. Mwahahaheh.