Hi Guys,
Looking at buying some drum mics at a resonable price but some that i can use for gigging and recording and at a decent quality. Been looking at the shure sm57 on the toms and snare. AKG D112 on the bass but still not sure on the over heads. Is this a good selection and any suggetions on the overheads and any off the other mics would be greatly apprectiated.
Thanks Jack

I'm not much into consumer specific chore microphones, but you can't go wrong having a bunch of SM57s around. I use different less hyped microphones than the D112 on the resonant head of my bass drums, usually an Electro Voice RE20. For overheads, AT 4033, AKG 414B uls, Shure SM81 or Neumann TLM102s. Floor toms get either a Sennheiser MD421 or a Neumann TLM 102. I rely on SM57s, MD421s or Neumann TLM102s on my rack toms. My snare drums usually get either an SM57, Beta 57, Audix I5, Shure 545, Electro Voice RE15 or on occasion an AKG C1000S on the batter and always a Sennheiser MD441 on the snare side, if I use a snare side microphone. Hi hats an AKG 451, 460, Shure SM81 or an Audio Technica small diameter condenser ATM 33R. Room microphones in my personal studio, either Neumann U87s or Neumann TLM170s.

When working in a commercial studio, I'll use basically the same microphones with substitutes as I see fit, usually to the bass drum, overheads and snare batter.

When you say reasonable price, that can mean something different to everyone. Most of these are reasonably priced, especially on the used market. You can probably find many of the above that will work well for you and also fit your budget.

audiotech has given great advice.
I would add to look into drum microphone packages. They come in different quality/price ranges. You said "reasonable" - which is subjective of course. To me "reasonable" meant getting an Audix DP7 mic kit as those are specifically developed for drums (but work for much more also).

A Shure SM57 will do the trick for snare, toms - even the bass drum if you care to find a good position and have no other mics at hand. Neumanns are superb but expensive. Sennheiser MD421's are among the preferred mics of pro studios regardless of price tags - those are great (for e.g. electric guitar recordings, too) to have a few. And the SM57 is a mic which some engineers prefer to ...anything! If you can't get a good sound with an SM57 it's not the mic!

What's your budget? This would help to specify recommendations. Keep in mind you can always get good mics used and save a lot of money.

Most of those mics in that packages (except for better overheads - but those provided are decent though) is what Todd Sucherman is using (drummer with Styx, has done 2 DVDs - "Methods and Mechanics I & II". He is using those mics - the i5, D2 (toms), D4 (floor toms), D6 (bass drum, gong tom). But different overheads than in the DP7 kit. So if you like the sound on those DVDs - no expensive Neumanns involved. (But for Todd's double bass kit with lots of toms he has those mic models multiple times.)

I had bought a set of the Audio Technica kit packs to get me thru till I could afford a better set but that was 10 years ago, the quality was much better than I thought and never saw any reason to upgrade.

What is your deciding factor on using a mic on your snare reso or not? Also why the MD441 instead of just tossing in another SM57?

And one more Q, would you put a mic on your snare reso for live situations too, or just recording?

After reading through this thread... i've noticed that i have a lot to learn about micing haha

I listen to each drum and also to the entire kit before making any decisions. If the snare drum sounds great to my ears at the kit, but I'm missing something in the transition into the control room, then I'll rectify the problems. If the snare drum is lacking a bit of definition on the snares themselves, I'll just use a bottom microphone instead of trying to re-arrange the batter mic to compensate for the lack of pick up on the snare head. When I'm engineering in the studio, I'll always keep a bottom microphone on the snare drum regardless if I use it or not. Each and every microphone channel is being laid to a separate track, so it's always there if I need to use it. Most of the time it just takes a very subtle addition to the mix to hear it's effectiveness.

I use the MD441 because of it's transparency. I've probably tried dozens of different microphones on the snare head and the 441 stands way above all the rest. The Sennheiser MD441 is one of the best sounding dynamic microphone I've ever used. The SM57 would definitely work, but in my opinion, not as well as the Sennheiser. I always like to have the rear of the 441 point down towards carpeting or other sound absorbing material to help control what is entering the rear of the microphone, being a supercardioid design.

Depending on the venue and the genre of music, I'll use a resonant head microphone on the snare drum regardless if it's in the studio or live gig, although it's not as much a given as it is in the studio. Adding a bit more of the snare does wonders to compensate for the overall acoustical sound of the drums in a venue where there is an over abundance of low frequency energy build up. High frequency response and articulation gets lost rapidly in situations such as these.

For the bass, i have seen the Subkick used a time or two, and i've understood that it is just a reverse wired speaker that can pick up the low end well. Is this at all competitive with a standard mic used to mic a bass? And would it not pick up on the low end of the other instruments?

second question is: are really small condenser mics like the shure beta 98H/C, or the Audix ADX 90 clip on mics comparable in quality of the SM57 in both live and studio situations?

For the bass, i have seen the Subkick used a time or two, and i've understood that it is just a reverse wired speaker that can pick up the low end well. Is this at all competitive with a standard mic used to mic a bass? And would it not pick up on the low end of the other instruments?

Subkicks are meant to be used in conjunction with a regular mic, not as a substitute.

OK guys thanks for all your advise and this is what i am thinking of getting so i can afford it in chunks:
SM57 on the snare top and bottom
Sennheiser e604 on all toms
AKG D112 on the bass drum
Little blonde mics for over heads. Really good for the money would recommend them to any one. These are the first ones i got and they are brilliant
So what do you guys thinks?

I'm not much into consumer specific chore microphones, but you can't go wrong having a bunch of SM57s around. I use different less hyped microphones than the D112 on the resonant head of my bass drums, usually an Electro Voice RE20. For overheads, AT 4033, AKG 414B uls, Shure SM81 or Neumann TLM102s. Floor toms get either a Sennheiser MD421 or a Neumann TLM 102. I rely on SM57s, MD421s or Neumann TLM102s on my rack toms. My snare drums usually get either an SM57, Beta 57, Audix I5, Shure 545, Electro Voice RE15 or on occasion an AKG C1000S on the batter and always a Sennheiser MD441 on the snare side, if I use a snare side microphone. Hi hats an AKG 451, 460, Shure SM81 or an Audio Technica small diameter condenser ATM 33R. Room microphones in my personal studio, either Neumann U87s or Neumann TLM170s.

When working in a commercial studio, I'll use basically the same microphones with substitutes as I see fit, usually to the bass drum, overheads and snare batter.

When you say reasonable price, that can mean something different to everyone. Most of these are reasonably priced, especially on the used market. You can probably find many of the above that will work well for you and also fit your budget.

Dennis

I have heard of people using a pair of SM57s for overheads with very good results. For basic gigging, I'd think that would suffice for most people.

...as most everyone has stated.........you can't go wrong with SM-57's..........I use one on my snare. Also picked up an EV drum mic kit for less than $100 new (MF stupid deal of the day) and they sound decent............wouldn't have any concerns about gigging live with these.

MF has these...........they are normally around $450, but I've seen them listed several times for cheap

I guess, with the mics you selected you can't go wrong.
SM57 is cool, e604 on toms should be working. Had them when I started recording but find them way too bassy.. but that could have been a problem of positioning in my case as well.
I like the audix d6 more than the d112 but you should try it, or even order both and compare them and then send one back.

Something I would consider to do:
Start with 2 mics or 4..
Buy very good overheads as they capture your whole kit. You can even get an amazing drumset sound with 2 overheads.
Then you can add other high-quality mics as well.

Also consider to buy a good preamp/interface.

When I started recording I thought:
"Well, I'll buy this alesis firewire mixer, shouldn't be a problem" - it was -> the alesis sounds like sh*t ... you won't recognize it but later you will hear that they just sound bad..

I guess, with the mics you selected you can't go wrong.
SM57 is cool, e604 on toms should be working. Had them when I started recording but find them way too bassy.. but that could have been a problem of positioning in my case as well.
I like the audix d6 more than the d112 but you should try it, or even order both and compare them and then send one back.

Something I would consider to do:
Start with 2 mics or 4..
Buy very good overheads as they capture your whole kit. You can even get an amazing drumset sound with 2 overheads.
Then you can add other high-quality mics as well.

Also consider to buy a good preamp/interface.

When I started recording I thought:
"Well, I'll buy this alesis firewire mixer, shouldn't be a problem" - it was -> the alesis sounds like sh*t ... you won't recognize it but later you will hear that they just sound bad..

I'm scanning and seeing a lot of good advice. A friend of mine does a lot of mixing (& now even has a grammy nomination for it), he was telling me that fancy mikes don't really bring anything to the table that'll make a difference in the end. He looked at my mix of Audix D series, Shure 57's & beta 52, audio technica overheads and said "Yeah, that's all good to go."

I'm scanning and seeing a lot of good advice. A friend of mine does a lot of mixing (& now even has a grammy nomination for it), he was telling me that fancy mikes don't really bring anything to the table that'll make a difference in the end. He looked at my mix of Audix D series, Shure 57's & beta 52, audio technica overheads and said "Yeah, that's all good to go."

Definitely not true..

If you compare some neumann overheads with audio technica overheads, you will definitely a difference!
Or if you do a lot of very dynamic and warm jazz stuff with for example a lot of brushes you will want to use a neumanm tlm 103 or something like that on the snare instead of a crappy sm57 or i5.

Of course the rest (preamps, converters, drums & drummer!!) have to fit as well.
And of course it's all about taste, but saying theres no difference that would make it.. Not true..

I would agree if he said: "if you compare high end mics".
And no offense but I learned that even a grammy nomination doesn't instantly make somebody a good mixer. Some modern music was mixxed by totally well known people and sounds shitty.

Definitely not true.. (...) on the snare instead of a crappy sm57 or i5.

I think that's a huge overexaggeration. I could agree on (many, not even all!!) Neumann & other hi-end mics having 'more clarity' or 'depth' but calling mics like the SM57 or i5 crap is inaccurate. In fact, if you can't get a good sound of an SM57 (meaning with some mics you might get even better results, depending on the situation) chances are you haven't maxed out all options (mic placement, angles, making use of polar pattern/proximity effect etc). Plus, some drummers are using the i5 because of the sonic properties - e.g. Todd Sucherman - and those could use any mic they wanted. So what do you think makes them prefer an i5 instead of mics costing multiple times? The i5 is considered to sound like an EQ'ed SM57 - not a bad reference!

Plus, keep in mind (I guess you already know but let's point that out anyway) that while some sonic differences might be evident when listening back to single tracks the situation changes when it comes to combining tracks/working on the complete mix of dozens of tracks. Aspects like clarity (Neumann-esque) are beneficial in that scenario but provided you're experienced with recording you might even prefer cheaper mics for some situations instead of Neumann & alii _because_ of the specific sound you're getting.

Kalma, don't forget that regardless of gear used, some people (engineers) _want_ the result to sound... sh*tty as you said. How do we know the music _didn't_ sound good at some time but was deliberately ruined (plug-ins, 'wrong' EQ settings etc) by the sound/mixing guys because somebody/they wanted it that way?

BTW, mic choice and placement makes _by far_ more difference than preamp and converter quality. Meaning you can save quite some money with stuff in the medium price range but utilizing it to the max instead of having hi-end stuff and messing things up. Just saying.

I'm scanning and seeing a lot of good advice. A friend of mine does a lot of mixing (& now even has a grammy nomination for it), he was telling me that fancy mikes don't really bring anything to the table that'll make a difference in the end. He looked at my mix of Audix D series, Shure 57's & beta 52, audio technica overheads and said "Yeah, that's all good to go."

That's pretty much what I have! I have never used Audix but I use Audio Technica. Their PRO35 condensers can't be beat for toms or snare or hand percussion.

I still have an old Teac stereo mic that I use for recording and I got great results using it as a bass drum mic for the 24" Slingerland I used to own. The reso was thin and solid (no hole) and I put the mic about a foot or two in front of it in a small room.

I still have an old Teac stereo mic that I use for recording and I got great results using it as a bass drum mic for the 24" Slingerland I used to own. The reso was thin and solid (no hole) and I put the mic about a foot or two in front of it in a small room.

I use a couple Behringer condensers for overheads. They are a great value and sound terrific.

If you just want a whatever all around sound and have a
couple hundred to spend, just get 3-5 sm57's and call it a day. Mess
around and make sure your drums are tuned well and you are in a good sounding room.

Ok so i have bought my mics now and although this is a bit off topic i really can not find an answer. what do you use to carry your drum mics to gigs and stuff. I have looked around and all i can find are cases for standard hand held mics. Because the drum mics are such strange shape they wont fit in those holders what are your guys solutions. In case this helps the mics i have are, 2 little blonde mics, 1 AKG D112, 1 SM57, 2 Sennheiser e604 and 1 audix D4. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Thanks Jack

Audiotech I would appreciate if you could share your wisdom on the Yamaha Subkick.
Currently I use a D6 in the port(head with KickPort) or outside(resonant head without port) and a CAD m179 a foot away from the resonant head.
Will a SubKick give me anything I can't do with EQ, compression or mic placement?