I went hiking on the state game lands indicated for Blacklick Rocks, and after a couple hours of hiking around, I couldn't find the spot. Can anyone help me with this? I put the coordinates in a topo map and was at that spot. If it's a real climbing spot, what's it look like? thanks

Here's some clarification. My friends and I have been climbing at this area for 6 years or so and have done a ton of cleaning and developing of boulder problems. The main area that Rob speaks of is on private property that borders state game land. Luckily the owner of the land is a nice and reasonable person and allows climbing on his land. He told me outright that he did not want a ton of people on his land however. He has recently built a cabin near the boulders and does spend a good number of weekends riding 4wheelers. I think as long as you do not go near his cabin, keep groups small and use common sense we (the climbing community) will not have a problem. Also, do not go there during hunting season. The landowner has allowed a lot of long time local hunters to access his land and specifically told me not to go there during hunting season. The parking lot holds about 3-4 cars max, if you are near a house you are at the wrong place. Do not park near his cabin. If the lot is full go to the boulders across the creek along the trail. If you do run into the owner be nice explain what you are doing, and thank him for allowing climbing. There are a few old mine shafts on the property and the owner does not want people near them, again use your common sense. Rob I would appreciate you adding this info to your website. I can't control what areas you decide to add or put in your guide, but at the very least I hope you will take into consideration your actions on access to this area and others in western pa. I think this information is very relevant and is in line with the owners wishes. I have been showing this area to people I have met while climbing throughout pennsylvania for a long time. If you want to go out and get the tour I am happy to do so. Brian McCall

Another point - don't put too much stock in Rob's description of "anything" because we have found that he just makes stuff up and comments like an expert on areas he's never been to. Keep in mind that this guy lives in washington state and hasn't climbed at any of the quality western pa areas yet he espouses to be an expert on pa climbing. Rob - if you ever do make it back to pa we will be glad to show you some of these areas so you can stop the speculating judgments.

Yes, I consider living in Pennsylvania for 37 years and climbing and developing areas in the state for 26 of them being somewhat "knowledgable" about the state.

I was at Blacklick in 1999. I have been there. Granted I have never been to the Mt Tabor Road spot. I gave several people directions to the Mt Tabor Road area. They all stated that there is ok (not fantastic) bouldering there and certainly not world class (better than Yosemite as you claim).

I feel my and other climbers opinions of this aea are more sober judgements than claiming a small bouldering area is {quote} "The best bouldering area in the country". ~Rob

Well youngster, as someone has been living in PA for 51 years and putting up climbs in PA for over 35 years I'm not impressed.

I can see you are still doing lots of your assuming and interpolating. You still haven't found what I've been talking about. The 2 areas I've been talking about have over 300 quality problems each - not exactly small. And I don't think I said any PA areas are the best bouldering in the country. Hueco and LRC get my votes. Now for rock quality... the good western PA gritstone can't be beat. And you still haven't climbed on any of it. Too bad.

If I'm thinking of the same "area" there is alot of rock on state game lands #276 the whole way from Heshbon to Blacklick along the Ghost Town Rails to Trails and the hillsides thru the valley. Being the northern end of Chestnut Ridge there is quality rock to be found.

The area off of Mt. Tabor is small but has a few large boulders. It is down from the pull off on your right at the bend coming up from Heshbon. Around the bend and up the valley as you cross the feeder stream is the cabin I believe you are referring to as I noticed quite abit of quad paths leading out from the cabin into the forest as I ran by. It is quite a nice piece of land the cabin owner has if it runs down to Blacklick Creek and the SGL boundary.

Exactly what is his opinion. Is it that he is only comfortable with your group personally, or is it a "i don't care as long as it doesn't get out of hand"?

If this would be the case, the climbing "community" could possibly make good in roads with him as a whole. There is at least three areas (including the bend, but not as much) up Tabor that are essentially dumps. The hill side is steep and it has become in areas the place to drive up and throw your garbage off. Let's step up and tell him that any climber coming to that area for the day, will pack out a few "grocery" bags of trash each. This wouldn't take more than a few minutes on the way back up the hill to the car. Throw them in a large garbage bag at your whip and dumpster it on the way home. (I'll find the closest boro dumpster my next trip to the area.)

As to hunting season, the PAGC has rules against mountain biking and hiking/running, I've always included climbing with this even though it is not specific. There is usually a fall cutoff date on the orange regulations plaques that should be at all SGL parking areas. Essentially if your not hunting, they don't want you there. This is only common sense anyways, certainly at a SGL area surrounded by hunting cabins/property.

I've always called the area west of Blacklick (town), Blacklick, these areas I called Brush Valley, but hey what do I know, I only found them a few years ago while running the Ghost Town. There is alot of rock thru the valley for everyone.

This is a reduced res. copy (damn rc.com upload limits) of the map I take on runs on the Ghost Town and up and down the hillsides.

Climbers I know who have climbed at this area state that the area is on reclaimed mining land and township property. There are posted signs uphill from the boulders and on the opposite side of the raod. The side of the road the rock is on is NOT posted property. They tell me it is PUBlIC land. Are they wrong or are you?

You also state the supposed landowner ALLOWS climbing. So what gives?

And I am curious why you have on many occasions on this site and others offered to give prvate tours of this land to just about anybody but chastize anyone else from providing information.

I'm also curious what a "small group" constitutes in your opinion. Jim's pictures and video of the area show a hoard of climbers out there with cleaning brushes, brooms, video cameras. I'm told the whole area has been manicured with new trails at the boulders. Is the landowner you mention allowing these modifications to his property? Is this what he means by not having "a ton of climbers on his land"?

If you can produce some tangable evidence that my freinds are wrong about the land ownership I will gladly modify my webpage accordingly; however, you state he ALLOWS climbing on his property so it seems like a non-issue. ~Rob

No matter what our personal opinions of an area, I would hope that if you are going to post directions to an area that is on private land and does have access issues at the very least you will make those issues known. Don't you think that you should figure these issues out before you put info in a guidebook? We've been climbing there for the last six years. You were never there back in 1999. You may not give a shit about the area because you don't like it, but I do and would hate to lose access.

****so I posted the above before I had a chance to read the previous post.

To answer your questions.

In reply to:

The area off of Mt. Tabor is small but has a few large boulders. It is down from the pull off on your right at the bend coming up from Heshbon. Around the bend and up the valley as you cross the feeder stream is the cabin I believe you are referring to as I noticed quite abit of quad paths leading out from the cabin into the forest as I ran by. It is quite a nice piece of land the cabin owner has if it runs down to Blacklick Creek and the SGL boundary.

That's the place

In reply to:

Exactly what is his opinion. Is it that he is only comfortable with your group personally, or is it a "i don't care as long as it doesn't get out of hand"?

Well my group has been the only climbers he has probably met out there. We met him one day while he was cutting down some trees. We talked I explained who I was and what I was doing. He said he doesn't mind people using his land but doesn't want large groups, people there during hunting season, or people going near old mines. I've ran into him a few other times and said hello. He's a nice guy but I never talked to him about more formal climber impact like clean ups. I've carried my share of trash though. I told him I wouldn't give directions to the area.

In reply to:

Climbers I know who have climbed at this area state that the area is on reclaimed mining land and township property. There are posted signs uphill from the boulders and on the opposite side of the raod. The side of the road the rock is on is NOT posted property. They tell me it is PUBlIC land. Are they wrong or are you?

There's been no strip mining on the south side where the boulders are, hillsides above maybe. The land is not posted, but the owner has built a CABIN on the land doubt he could do that with township land. Plus I take his word for what he thinks his land is.

In reply to:

I'm told the whole area has been manicured with new trails at the boulders. Is the landowner you mention allowing these modifications to his property? Is this what he means by not having "a ton of climbers on his land"?

It did take some cleaning but mostly on topouts, There really aren't trails there, we aren't that ambitious. They have built some trails for 4wheelers

In reply to:

If you can produce some tangable evidence that my freinds are wrong about the land ownership I will gladly modify my webpage accordingly

Fleamodee, Once again you stated you give guided tours and the owner ALLOWS climbing. What are the issues?

You quoted...

In reply to:

Luckily the owner of the land is a nice and reasonable person and allows climbing on his land.

Synrock said,

In reply to:

I can see you are still doing lots of your assuming and interpolating. You still haven't found what I've been talking about. The 2 areas I've been talking about have over 300 quality problems each - not exactly small. And I don't think I said any PA areas are the best bouldering in the country.

Your right you said'

In reply to:

Pennsylvania has much better rock than utah. It's called gritstone. It's better than that mill creek stuff, better than joe's, better than lcc. It's pretty near the finest climbing rock on the planet.

One minute you say Ghost Town (clearly labeled Gtown in all your photos is the best booudlering on the planet, now you are saying I still don't know where any of the good PA bouldering is. Very confusing; I mean contradicting.

Climbers have clearly identified many of your photos as being at Blacklick creek and Ghost Town Rails Trails. The area in your Flicker show is labeled G-town. Tags from ip download are labeled Ghost-1, etc. Must just be an unbelievable coincidence.

There is an answer to all this - it's just that you haven't figured it out yet. There are 2 PA areas with each over 300 quality problems that you don't know about - or think you know about but don't really.

Rob that's not what I'm trying to do or implying. I have taken people out there who I have met while climbing and become friends with. It's a word of mouth thing. At least then they know the access issues and what to do and not to do at the owners request. You are telling people you don't know at all who have no real way of knowing the issues but putting directions on the internet. I just want the issues to be known and try to preserve access to an area that I love. I'm not trying to get you all pissed off.

I have been showing this area to people I have met while climbing throughout pennsylvania for a long time.

Yes, That pretty much answers all my questions. It's ok for you to draw climbers to the area from all over the state, but not ok for me to tell climbers about the area. ~Rob

YES THAT IS CORRECT - And the reason is that you haven't been there, haven't talked to the landowner, don't know anything about any access concerns. And you have a very poor track record with telling people to climb at closed areas (bear rocks state college). You have no respect for locals, considering yourself a LOCAL for the entire state. This why you get people pissed off at you.

Jim, You tresspass at Bear Rocks all the time, don't get on your high horse to me. You wrote a climbing guidebook to an area that was never open to climbing. A lot of climbers say its patrolled now because of you personally and you are responsible for most of Bellfontes problems.

And I could care less if you are pissed at me. You are not a very well liked climber in PA from what A lot of people tell me (that includes a lot of PSU folk by the way).

he seems like a reasonable guy, i've never seen posted signs on that side of the road, only the upper side, but there is also a gate further down Tabor that leads into that property, that is former mine land, probably a hunting camp now and certainly separate property from his.

i'm sure he would appreciate a little "give back" with his attitude towards climbers. cleaning up is a great start, who wouldn't mind someone cleaning up their property. he would start to see climbers are there to help him out, not dump trash on him.

there is alot of rock in public land there, we shouldn't just focus on one specific "section" on private land. all the rock on public land should be posted, i've always said that and i'll always post it as well.

Nope haven't been to bear rocks for a long time - see how you make stuff up?

Bellefonte is closed because non-climbers keep falling in the water and drowning. The locals like the climbers, it's that dam post 911 kathleen mcginty and her quarries are dangeous places commercials that has bellefonte closed.

By the way I just looked at your Flicker show again that you claim are the best boulders on the planet. Almost every photo is Ghost Town. So keep on stumbling and tell me there is some other spot the photos were taken....besides the two photos of Johnstown.

I know it sucks living in WA state and having to do all your postulating via remote sensing. That bear rocks photo is like 5 years old. I've taken lots of video but few photos over the years and those flicker photos were just some of what I had - not representative. And the posted video is only a tiny fraction of the boulders. So, until I post a more representative sample or until the true nature of these areas are elucidated by third partys, this is just a my rocks are better than your rocks arguement. Time in on my side on this one.