Lol'd @ removing paladin from horde and shaman from alliance. What are all those people supposed to do that play those classes? Just have their toon deleted and reroll?

Yeah if they reimplemented #25 I would quit the game.. I play a Draenei Shaman and enjoy it a lot and doing #25 would pretty much destroy TBC (Draenei Shaman and Blood Elf paladins) and Cataclysm (Tauren Paladins).. I also play a hunter and was so happy to get a bag slot back not having to lug around ammo also you were stuffed if you ran out of ammo halfway through a raid..

And bringing back the min range deadzone hell no since some of the boss fights now require you to stack up real close and there goes your dps, but if they did that then give hunters back their melee weapons which were pretty much useless anyway..

But we all know that this bollocks thread is a introduce vanilla servers disguised as something else..

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Originally Posted by Turmoill

Ugh... don't remind me... being forced to run pointless USELESS normals after exhausting them, over and over and OVER again just so I could get enough rep for a pass to heroics.

Now I can get behind raid attunaments, since they were entertaining and made you do previous tier, which is necessary to get gear to advance anyway.

Yeah raid attunements would be good to bring back but attuning to HC dungeons no not anymore..

They need to work on story immersion before worrying about game play. Whether or not my hunter uses arrows is secondary to whether or not my character feels like a part of the story. Every time I have to stop and thing, "wait wtf?" about a story element that break immersion and no amount of arrows will fix it.

Nothing is going to make playing my draenei shaman in SoO feel immersive because in the story there are no draenei there and shamans don't work. Whether she has to carry little totems in her bag or not isn't going to affect that immersion.

When Wrathion is lecturing my draenei on the dangers of the Legion and how Azeroth should unity it doesn't matter if she had to feed her pet or not.

When the story isn't immersive, no amount of game mechanics will fix it.

So, after some recent discussion, it would seem convenience is destroying immersion. So, I would suggest putting immersion back in the game. Just so we are clear, this is my personal opinion. I speak for no one other than myself, and do NOT believe this will ever be seen by Blizz since this is not their official forum. With that in mind, here are some conveniences which need to be removed in order to improve immersion and bring back the RPG feel to the game:

1. Hunters will now be asked to give up a bag slot in exchange for a quiver or ammo pouch.
2. Ammunition will make its return.
3. Ranged weapons will once again need to be ranged. a 10 yard dead zone will be re-implemented.
4. Weapon and unarmed skills will need to be raised separately once more.
5. Hunter and Battle Pets will need to be fed to keep them happy and to prevent them from running away.
6. Attunements and Keys will be added back into Heroics. If you do not have a key, or a party member with one, you are out of luck.
7. Simple Wood and Flint & Tinder are once again needed to make fire.
8. Spell reagents will be re-implemented
9. Flight will be removed from Azeroth but remain in the newer territories to provide more old world immersion
10. Samantha Swifthoof will be returned to the path in Stranglethorn Vale
11. Certain quest mobs will be given their elite status back and will require a group to kill them.
12. Low level dungeons will get patrols once more who will respawn and can come up behind players without warning
13. Guild perks will be removed
14. Mining, Skinning, and Herbing all have a chance to fail when trying and will once again only give 1 item at a time up to a total of 3.
15. All extra Auction Houses, Mailboxes, and Banks will be removed from Stormwind and Orgrimmar bringing them back to 1 each.
16. Warlocks will now farm shards once more to provide a power base for certain spells.
17. Paladins, Warlocks, Druids, and Shaman no longer get special animals and mounts automatically. There is once again a quest chain to accomplish these means.
18. Druids will be reduced to 3 specs which will once again combine Guardian and Feral into the original Cat/Bear combo.
19. Each class Pet will again require a quest to complete in order to learn how to summon their pet.
20. Training is no longer automatic. You must once again visit your class trainer.
21. Pet trainers will be included in the afore mentioned.
22. Dual specs will be removed as you can only really play one spec at a time.
23. Original talent trees will be implemented and everyone will once again be able to tweak their class
24. Rogues will again be making poisons and applying them as they learn them.
25. Paladins will be removed from the Horde as Shaman will be removed from the Alliance. Too much class/faction homogenization.

Please feel free to add to this list. I'm sure there are plenty of immersive type items I am missing.

*Also, don't take this list too seriously. It was all in good fun. Mostly a farce to show how much things have improved.

Sounds like Vanilla WoW. Realistically I would like zones to revolve around dungeons again, a big quest lead up that ended up sending you into the instance like Storm peaks did.

Originally Posted by lakers01

Those damn liberal colleges! Can you believe they brainwash people into thinking murder is wrong! And don't get me started with all that critical thinking bullshit!

1. Hunters will now be asked to give up a bag slot in exchange for a quiver or ammo pouch.
2. Ammunition will make its return.

A nice change, but only if it applies across the board, e.g. mages now need a reagent pouch and "arcane powder" to cast fireballs and other spells.

3. Ranged weapons will once again need to be ranged. a 10 yard dead zone will be re-implemented.

No, it makes sense you can shoot an enemy point-blank.

5. Hunter and Battle Pets will need to be fed to keep them happy and to prevent them from running away.

I partially agree with this, they should be fed to keep them happy so they perform well, but there shouldn't be the risk of running away.

9. Flight will be removed from Azeroth but remain in the newer territories to provide more old world immersion

While I would like flight removed entirely, unfortunately some zones such as Storm Peaks require it.

15. All extra Auction Houses, Mailboxes, and Banks will be removed from Stormwind and Orgrimmar bringing them back to 1 each.

Disagree with this one, it helps spread players throughout the city. Although I admit reducing the number of mailboxes to a happy medium between vanilla and modern's amount would be nice.

21. Pet trainers will be included in the afore mentioned.
22. Dual specs will be removed as you can only really play one spec at a time.

IIRC pet trainers didn't actually teach you abilities, but dual spec should stay it has been a great benefit- although the cost to unlock it should be increased

Overall excellent post OP I agree with the other ones not quoted, would like to add a few more of my own:
1. Ingredients such as spices, apples, and Fresh Water once again required to cook certain recipes.
2. Classes dehomogenized, classes have distinct mechanical differences once more e.g. Druids will no longer have a ressurecting spell other than Rebirth.
3. Dungeons Wailing Caverns and Sunken Temple will be restored to their original size.
4. Mounts will no longer be able to be obtained until level 40 and level 60 for epic mounts.
5. Alchemy once again requires different types of vials for various potions.
6. Enchanting once again requires upgrading your enchanting rod to create higher level enchants.
7. New dungeons include some larger ones such as Blackrock Depths/Spire and Mauradon.
8. Guild levels and perks removed, removing the incentive to mass invite randoms for Cash Flow. IMO players should join a guild for the people in it and ease of communication/organization, not a list of passive buffs for being in one mechanically handicapping yourself if you'd rather play solo.
9. Lengthy attunement quests for raids reminiscent of the Onyxia's Lair chain.
10. Heirloom gear is removed, replaced with purchasable BoA enchantment scrolls that increase experience gained when below a certain level once attached to gear.
11. Profession specializations (such as tribal/elemental/dragonscale leatherworking) returned.
12. Reinforcements removed from Alterac Valley and Warsong Gulch.
13. Alterac Valley NPCs buffed, Korrak the Bloodrager and the Winterax trolls return to the Field of Strife.
14. Dungeon Finder removed, replaced with the Looking For Group interface from patch 3.1.0. LookingForGroup channel is only accessible when using the feature but is once again global.
15. LFR removed, replaced with the new Raid Browser. Raids have only two difficulty settings: One that starts at Flex(Normal in WoD) difficulty at the entrance and by the endboss is Normal(Heroic in WoD) difficulty, and a second that starts at Normal(Heroic) difficulty and by the endboss is Heroic(Mythic) difficulty.
16. Number of flight points reduced.
17. Portal to Pandaria in SW/Org removed, you now take a Zeppelin or Boat route to get there (like Northrend).
18. Portals to old cities in Shattrath/Dalaran/Shrine removed, portals in cities to the Dark Portal in Blasted Lands and to Cata zones except for Deephome removed.
19. Battlegrounds can once again only be queued for by talking to a Battlemaster.
20. Justice/Valor and Honor/Conquest points can be sent between characters on the same account.
21. Fishing once again requires fishing in areas of the correct level to gain experience.
22. Mining nodes, leather, and herbs take twice as long to gather.
23. During nighttime the world is much darker and ambient more how it was pre-BC.
24. Certain spells and spell upgrades are no longer taught by trainers and must once again be learned from a tome.
25. Buffs are returned to 30 minutes and group-wide buffs require reagents again. Paladin blessings once again last for only 5 minutes.

Why not give warlocks a curse that every spec would use for dps purposes and that grants a soul shard when the mob dies? It makes it much easier that way...

Those are called burning embers and they're still part of the class. They just don't take up bag space any more.

Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows

People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.

Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

Overall excellent post OP I agree with the other ones not quoted, would like to add a few more of my own:
1. Ingredients such as spices, apples, and Fresh Water once again required to cook certain recipes.
2. Classes dehomogenized, classes have distinct mechanical differences once more e.g. Druids will no longer have a ressurecting spell other than Rebirth.
3. Dungeons Wailing Caverns and Sunken Temple will be restored to their original size.
4. Mounts will no longer be able to be obtained until level 40 and level 60 for epic mounts.
5. Alchemy once again requires different types of vials for various potions.
6. Enchanting once again requires upgrading your enchanting rod to create higher level enchants.
7. New dungeons include some larger ones such as Blackrock Depths/Spire and Mauradon.
8. Guild levels and perks removed, removing the incentive to mass invite randoms for Cash Flow. IMO players should join a guild for the people in it and ease of communication/organization, not a list of passive buffs for being in one mechanically handicapping yourself if you'd rather play solo.
9. Lengthy attunement quests for raids reminiscent of the Onyxia's Lair chain.
10. Heirloom gear is removed, replaced with purchasable BoA enchantment scrolls that increase experience gained when below a certain level once attached to gear.
11. Profession specializations (such as tribal/elemental/dragonscale leatherworking) returned.
12. Reinforcements removed from Alterac Valley and Warsong Gulch.
13. Alterac Valley NPCs buffed, Korrak the Bloodrager and the Winterax trolls return to the Field of Strife.
14. Dungeon Finder removed, replaced with the Looking For Group interface from patch 3.1.0. LookingForGroup channel is only accessible when using the feature but is once again global.
15. LFR removed, replaced with the new Raid Browser. Raids have only two difficulty settings: One that starts at Flex(Normal in WoD) difficulty at the entrance and by the endboss is Normal(Heroic in WoD) difficulty, and a second that starts at Normal(Heroic) difficulty and by the endboss is Heroic(Mythic) difficulty.
16. Number of flight points reduced.
17. Portal to Pandaria in SW/Org removed, you now take a Zeppelin or Boat route to get there (like Northrend).
18. Portals to old cities in Shattrath/Dalaran/Shrine removed, portals in cities to the Dark Portal in Blasted Lands and to Cata zones except for Deephome removed.
19. Battlegrounds can once again only be queued for by talking to a Battlemaster.
20. Justice/Valor and Honor/Conquest points can be sent between characters on the same account.
21. Fishing once again requires fishing in areas of the correct level to gain experience.
22. Mining nodes, leather, and herbs take twice as long to gather.
23. During nighttime the world is much darker and ambient more how it was pre-BC.
24. Certain spells and spell upgrades are no longer taught by trainers and must once again be learned from a tome.
25. Buffs are returned to 30 minutes and group-wide buffs require reagents again. Paladin blessings once again last for only 5 minutes.

You know what, while I was leveling an undead the other day, I actually got immersed in the story for a while. It's a good opening zone and I think new players should definitely do undead to experience that. You ride along with Sylvanas and such for a while. It's really good and I'm not sort of interested in doing the other beginning zones to see what they are like.

I dunno if rolling back QoL improvements will really immerse people, but I would endorse those changes that are more "realistic." Quivers, ammo, class quests, reagents, etc make sense.

But dual-spec also makes sense, so removing it seems like a strange choice. I like rogues having to make poisons too.

I don't really think that's true. Immersion should be one of the most important aspects of an MMORPG, if not the most. 'Tough love' back in the day made you appreciate the stuff you got to do a lot more. Felt like you actually had to overcome things to get to places, instead of essentially playing inside a utopia.

All in all, if the way the world works frustrates you, but you love it deep down, the developer is doing something right (IMO). But i'm sure the drive-thru raiders will disagree.

"Let's see. There are monkeys that evolved into men and monkeys that didn't. Just as well, there are men that remained men and men that evolved into something else. Do you really think humans are the ultimate form of evolution? How arrogant."
--Kakurine, Evil Zone for PS1

I don't really think that's true. Immersion should be one of the most important aspects of an MMORPG, if not the most. 'Tough love' back in the day made you appreciate the stuff you got to do a lot more. Felt like you actually had to overcome things to get to places, instead of essentially playing inside a utopia.

All in all, if the way the world works frustrates you, but you love it deep down, the developer is doing something right (IMO). But i'm sure the drive-thru raiders will disagree.

It is a buzzword though.
People throw it around, deciding that what they personally enjoy should be pushed onto everyone.
Immersion is not universal, and how much someone will get immersed in any given content will vary quite considerably.
Making something take longer will be seen by many as a chore.
If you do not enjoy something, it is not immersive.

Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking

Your forgot to include the part where we blame casuals for everything because blizzard is catering to casuals when casuals got jack squat for new content the entire expansion, like new dungeons and scenarios.

Originally Posted by Reinaerd

T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.