In the aftermath of JetBlue 191 I wonder, once again, about the logic of a pilot carrying a firearm. I never understood why this would ever help to begin with. What exactly are these pilots planning to do? And, to the point, what if a lunatic pilot went berserk with his government approved firearm in hand ?

What a lot of people don't know is that there is a very sharp crash axe that is kept in the cockpit and can be just as deadly as a firearm. If you take the gun away, there's still the crash axe, which can't be removed as it is required equipment. Not to mention, if a pilot when "berserk" all they would have to do is take control of the plane and do what they wanted with it.

Keep the guns.

"A passenger bets his life that his pilot is a worthy heir to an ancient tradition of excellence and professionalism."

Quoting 26point2 (Thread starter):In the aftermath of JetBlue 191 I wonder, once again, about the logic of a pilot carrying a firearm. I never understood why this would ever help to begin with but, to the point, what if a lunatic pilot went berserk again with his government approved firearm in hand?

What if a lunatic airport police officer went berserk with his government approved firearm in hand?

What a lot of people don't know is that there is a very sharp crash axe that is kept in the cockpit and can be just as deadly as a firearm. If you take the gun away, there's still the crash axe, which can't be removed as it is required equipment. Not to mention, if a pilot when "berserk" all they would have to do is take control of the plane and do what they wanted with it.

Keep the guns.

Thanks..good stuff. Now we all know about the axe. And again, why do we have the guns?

Quoting 26point2 (Reply 5):Thanks..good stuff. Now we all know about the axe. And again, why do we have the guns?

Why do we have TCAS, dual / triple hydraulic systems, EGPWS, etc? None of that is necessary to get us from A to B. It's an extra level of safety. Plenty of people swear up and down a cockpit will never be breached again. We don't know that to be fact, and until we do we add the extra level of safety.

The selection process for the FFDO program is very intense and they certainly factor mental stability into the equation. I spoke with a captain the other day who wasn't selected the first time around because he told them he liked to have a beer on his overnights. Not heavily drink, but have a beer. Granted, nobody can ever know if they'll have a mental breakdown but the point being is that they try to weed out those who they think are more susceptible. I say we get rid of air marshals and keep FFDOs because it is much more effective and cost efficient to have armed pilots, but the way this administration loves to waste money, I'm not shocked they want to slash the program.

Because for the past 10 years pilots have come to the realization that they are targets, and that any attempt at a cockpit breach will be by individuals who are prepared to die.

Quoting 26point2 (Reply 8):Is he really going to fire off a warning round, or worse, shoot the wrong guy? I think the latter.

The only way a firearm would ever be intentionally discharged would be in the event of a breached cockpit. While it would certainly be a tragedy to wound a bystander, it is still an outcome preferable to all 150 passengers being killed.

Quoting N353SK (Reply 12):The only way a firearm would ever be intentionally discharged would be in the event of a breached cockpit. While it would certainly be a tragedy to wound a bystander, it is still an outcome preferable to all 150 passengers being killed.

Not entirely true...

A US pilot a few years back accidentally discharged his gun on the flight deck...

I'm not disputing the fact that guns can be dangerous. What needs to be understood is that a person who attempts to force entry into a cockpit is doing so with the intention of killing everybody on board, including himself. The only way to prevent this is by lethal force.

Guns in the Cockpit are a terrible idea, an idea only endorsed in, you guessed it, the gun loving USA.

A country that refuses to acknowledge the connection between having millions of guns and, surprise, surprise thousands of people getting shot and killed every year.

The likelihood these guns carried by FFDO's will be used in the manner envisioned is very low, more likely there will be another accidental discharge, an FFDO going nuts and shooting the other Pilot or a combination of both.

It doesn't stop them from trying whatsoever. Like I said earlier, anybody who has the intention of bringing down an airliner is already prepared to die. The presence of lethal force decreases the chance of any sort of attack being successful.

Quoting seven3seven (Reply 22):Quoting 26point2 (Reply 11):
Perhaps, but no one seems to be able to answer the original question: how is does a pilot with a gun make flying safer?

Anyone trying to breech the cockpit will find out. Stop listening to the media hype about this poor Jetblue pilot.

The system worked.

The system most probably doesn't work. The gun wont just lie around in the cockpit ready to be used, it will be hidden in some kind of holster. The "bad guy" will break into the cockpit and put a knife on the pilot's throat, do you really think, that pilot or co-pilot will be able in that situation, also being somehow immobilized in the seats, to quickly grab the gun an react?

No way!

Like most of life's problems, this one can be solved with bending -- Bender Unit 22

Quoting boeingfever777 (Reply 17):
Can guarantee you if AA & UA pilots on the 9/11 flights had firearms would have been a different outcome.

No - you definitely can't "guarantee" it. It's not even likely (but of course we'll never know).

Remember that things were different before 9/11. Aircraft were hijacked all the time, but most always were then taken somewhere to land. The idea that step one in a hijacking would be to kill both pilots would have seemed positively insane. So I cannot imagine that, even if the pilots had been armed, their first instinct would have been to blast away the moment the hijackers entered the cockpit, which probably would have been the only way to prevent what was coming.

To answer the thread question: to arm pilots is definitely a strange idea that I don't working anywhere outside of the US. That said, if I were flying in the US and the pilot was experienced with handling guns and had one around... let's say I wouldn't be overly concerned with it. I wouldn't feel any safer, but it wouldn't bother me either.

[Edited 2012-03-30 02:11:02]

Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.

25 speedygonzales
: The only place guns should ever be allowed on civilian plans is unloaded in the cargo hold. Bullets should be placed in special containers if the nee