"and Mike Ornstein, a marketing official with ties to coach Sean Payton."

Why do they have to point that out? Just to get Sean's name in there.. that's why. He was head coach so he would have "ties" with everyone on the farking team. That's like saying I have ties to the CEO of my company if I do something stupid.

In March, Vikings center John Sullivan and punter Chris Kluwe called for lifetime bans of the Saints players involved. In May, we noted the precarious balance the NFL Players Association faced in defending both the suspended players and those who might have been targets of the bounty program.

As a Vikings fan, the only pleasure we get is schadenfreude and that's some good stuff right there.

Bunnyhat:Here's the thing.I thought the Saints were being punished for them keep on having the program after being warned to cut it out.They were warned in 2010, yet all the evidence is from 2009.

Character defamation. Like a prosecutor pointing out that a burglar liked going to strip clubs and posting racist screeds on the internet. Not relevant to the case at hand, but it will negatively affect the jury's perception of the defendant.

The NFL figures a lot of people like Bert Faver still, so they keep pointing out that the evil Saints hurt Ol' Mr. Wrangler. It makes it easier for people to forget that EVERY team ran a bounty system, and the Saints are just in trouble because they thumbed their nose at Goodell and the NFL needs a fall guy so they can say they care about player safety.

Jubeebee:The NFL figures a lot of people like Bert Faver still, so they keep pointing out that the evil Saints hurt Ol' Mr. Wrangler.

It'd be amusing if Vilma's lawyer can get past the CBA in court and calls Favre, and Favre reiterates his "it's football, I don't think any less of those guys" comments to PK. It'll probably never happen, but it'd make me laugh.

xynix:Why do they have to point that out? Just to get Sean's name in there.. that's why. He was head coach so he would have "ties" with everyone on the farking team. That's like saying I have ties to the CEO of my company if I do something stupid.

F*ck yeah, I'm going to start pointing out how I "have ties" to Nobel Prize winners I haven't met yet but work at the same place.

Have I missed the evidence (honest question) where the Saints have said that they want to hurt another player with illegal hits, in order to get them out of the game.. and because of these illegal hits that knock the player out of the game, the players conducting these illegal hits will get paid for it, under the table.

All Minnesota wanted was one championship, just one. We were even willing to forgive our nemesis and do whatever it took. Stupid Saints, If half of the evidence is true(Peter King [SI.com]) I hope they never win another playoff game again.

/ yes, still bitter// It was obvious that the saints were looking for injuries, not a clean game/// Fark the 'Aints

Doogles4221:All Minnesota wanted was one championship, just one. We were even willing to forgive our nemesis and do whatever it took. Stupid Saints, If half of the evidence is true(Peter King [SI.com]) I hope they never win another playoff game again.

So your fanbase made a deal with the devil (Farve). You do realize what that would've entailed right?

Honestly, I wouldn't have cared if there was or wasn't a bounty on Farve; just seeing the Vikes lose made me feel all warm and fuzzy.

/Giants fan//They EARNED theirs the hard way///So, I have very little sympathy for Vikes' fans.

Doogles4221:All Minnesota wanted was one championship, just one. We were even willing to forgive our nemesis and do whatever it took. Stupid Saints, If half of the evidence is true(Peter King [SI.com]) I hope they never win another playoff game again.

/ yes, still bitter// It was obvious that the saints were looking for injuries, not a clean game/// Fark the 'Aints

Teams in black seem to be your undoing (See: Steelers, Raiders and now Saints); I'd watch out Week 1 against the Jags.

Dr.Knockboots:Have I missed the evidence (honest question) where the Saints have said that they want to hurt another player with illegal hits, in order to get them out of the game.. and because of these illegal hits that knock the player out of the game, the players conducting these illegal hits will get paid for it, under the table.

This article is a lot better:

http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=8067010

If you can't open it then its under the heading of players crying foul, they asked for the 20k pages of evidence so the NFL gave it to them. A lot of it would be enough to get a murderer the death penalty but people still say its not enough.

steamingpile:Dr.Knockboots: Have I missed the evidence (honest question) where the Saints have said that they want to hurt another player with illegal hits, in order to get them out of the game.. and because of these illegal hits that knock the player out of the game, the players conducting these illegal hits will get paid for it, under the table.

This article is a lot better:

http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=8067010

If you can't open it then its under the heading of players crying foul, they asked for the 20k pages of evidence so the NFL gave it to them. A lot of it would be enough to get a murderer the death penalty but people still say its not enough.

Read on the NY Daily News how their attorneys were biatching about "procedural issues" but stayed silent on the facts of the case.

Face it, they got caught red-handed but they think the NFL is like a court of law and can wiggle out of their punishment. Goodell responded "Homie don't play that," and gave them all suspensions.

robsul82:Jubeebee: The NFL figures a lot of people like Bert Faver still, so they keep pointing out that the evil Saints hurt Ol' Mr. Wrangler.

It'd be amusing if Vilma's lawyer can get past the CBA in court and calls Favre, and Favre reiterates his "it's football, I don't think any less of those guys" comments to PK. It'll probably never happen, but it'd make me laugh.

The CBA has no bearing on whether Vilma has a cause of action. You can't bargain away your rights against an intentional tort. He'll be able to call anyone he wants. He'll lose because the burden of proof is so high. If he can't prove that there is no possible way that Goodell could possibly think that there was a bounty program and that Vilma might have participated in it, with every piece of evidence viewed in the most favorable light for the defendant, Vilma loses on summary judgment. If Vilma wants to throw away another $200,000 on top of the $8 million he's losing already, good for him. What's another 5%?

Doogles4221:// It was obvious that the saints were looking for injuries, not a clean game

Steeler fan who was rooting for the favre-led vikes and watched the whole game says that is utter horseshiat. The saints played like they always played and just like everyone else plays. If there is anything to complain about in that game it's that the refs missed a couple of calls - as usual. That said, whining about the refs is also un-classy.

scandalrag:robsul82: Jubeebee: The NFL figures a lot of people like Bert Faver still, so they keep pointing out that the evil Saints hurt Ol' Mr. Wrangler.

It'd be amusing if Vilma's lawyer can get past the CBA in court and calls Favre, and Favre reiterates his "it's football, I don't think any less of those guys" comments to PK. It'll probably never happen, but it'd make me laugh.

The CBA has no bearing on whether Vilma has a cause of action. You can't bargain away your rights against an intentional tort. He'll be able to call anyone he wants. He'll lose because the burden of proof is so high. If he can't prove that there is no possible way that Goodell could possibly think that there was a bounty program and that Vilma might have participated in it, with every piece of evidence viewed in the most favorable light for the defendant, Vilma loses on summary judgment. If Vilma wants to throw away another $200,000 on top of the $8 million he's losing already, good for him. What's another 5%?

JohnBigBootay:Doogles4221: // It was obvious that the saints were looking for injuries, not a clean game

Steeler fan who was rooting for the favre-led vikes and watched the whole game says that is utter horseshiat. The saints played like they always played and just like everyone else plays. If there is anything to complain about in that game it's that the refs missed a couple of calls - as usual. That said, whining about the refs is also un-classy.

I tried to cover this conversation earlier. You guys don;t need to repeat it you know.

JohnBigBootay:Doogles4221: // It was obvious that the saints were looking for injuries, not a clean game

Steeler fan who was rooting for the favre-led vikes and watched the whole game says that is utter horseshiat. The saints played like they always played and just like everyone else plays. If there is anything to complain about in that game it's that the refs missed a couple of calls - as usual. That said, whining about the refs is also un-classy.

As the NFL says, they don't need to find evidence that the Saints were successfully collecting bounties or even competent in their nastiness. All of this "I watched the game!" or "I went back to the tape and no one was carted off!" is just a waste of time.

scandalrag:The CBA has no bearing on whether Vilma has a cause of action. You can't bargain away your rights against an intentional tort. He'll be able to call anyone he wants. He'll lose because the burden of proof is so high. If he can't prove that there is no possible way that Goodell could possibly think that there was a bounty program and that Vilma might have participated in it, with every piece of evidence viewed in the most favorable light for the defendant, Vilma loses on summary judgment. If Vilma wants to throw away another $200,000 on top of the $8 million he's losing already, good for him. What's another 5%?

\They grow them extra stupid at the U.

We'll see what happens. If there's any way Vilma can win, this Ginsberg will find it.

They were both equally important (although it's worth mentioning that they weren't in chip shot FG range or anything, but Longwell could've made it), lol. As were the turnstiles posing as the Vikings O-line and the team's inability to count in the 4th quarter.

Wait, who is Ornstein? The "convicted felon"? Certainly the NFL isn't basing any of their evidence on the testimony of a convicted felon?? The Kops just keep getting Keystonier.

At any rate, I'm sure the NFL has Ornstein's testimony on record, so it should be pretty easy to discern if he's lying or telling the truth. Unless the Kops are Keystoniest.

Ornstein's the felon, yeah. And I would THINK they'd have Ornstein's account on tape, but hey, it's the crack NFL investigation squad. You never know, lol. And yeah, Florio raised that point himself - good job basing your case on such a dude.

robsul82:Ornstein's the felon, yeah. And I would THINK they'd have Ornstein's account on tape, but hey, it's the crack NFL investigation squad. You never know, lol. And yeah, Florio raised that point himself - good job basing your case on such a dude.

Remember to hydrate!

And witness #2 is Gregg "PLEASE let me back in the league!" Williams himself?

Slow To Return:And witness #2 is Gregg "PLEASE let me back in the league!" Williams himself?

When did THAT dude become honorable?

He's the ace in the hole. Ornstein's a felon, Cerullo (the unnamed source) is a disgruntled employee. GW thinks he can get back in the door if he keeps his mouth shut. Ever see Quiz Show, the Robert Redford movie about the game show scandals in the 50s?

Dr Dreidel:For the number of jobs he's had, he probably has pics of EVERY SINGLE GM and owner in the league in some form of compromising position. You don't want to know what the pic of Al Davis looks like.

rka:JohnBigBootay: Doogles4221: // It was obvious that the saints were looking for injuries, not a clean game

Steeler fan who was rooting for the favre-led vikes and watched the whole game says that is utter horseshiat. The saints played like they always played and just like everyone else plays. If there is anything to complain about in that game it's that the refs missed a couple of calls - as usual. That said, whining about the refs is also un-classy.

As the NFL says, they don't need to find evidence that the Saints were successfully collecting bounties or even competent in their nastiness. All of this "I watched the game!" or "I went back to the tape and no one was carted off!" is just a waste of time.

The NFL just needs to find evidence that they were offered.

Sure. Hey, you won't find me arguing that it wasn't wrong or that severe penalties weren't in order. It was wrong and it deserved penalties. I just think Goodell went too far in what, at the end of the day, was simply bad PR and empty macho locker room bullshiat. In my opinion I don't think a single player was injured that would not have been injured absent the bounty program. The program was certainly wrong - I just don't think it actually accomplished its stated goal. If we had statistical evidence that you were more likely to be injured vs the saints because of this program I would feel differently. I'd levy a severe punishment for people planning to murder someone. I'd levy an even more severe punishment for those who actually accomplished it.

JohnBigBootay:rka: JohnBigBootay: Doogles4221: // It was obvious that the saints were looking for injuries, not a clean game

Steeler fan who was rooting for the favre-led vikes and watched the whole game says that is utter horseshiat. The saints played like they always played and just like everyone else plays. If there is anything to complain about in that game it's that the refs missed a couple of calls - as usual. That said, whining about the refs is also un-classy.

As the NFL says, they don't need to find evidence that the Saints were successfully collecting bounties or even competent in their nastiness. All of this "I watched the game!" or "I went back to the tape and no one was carted off!" is just a waste of time.

The NFL just needs to find evidence that they were offered.

Sure. Hey, you won't find me arguing that it wasn't wrong or that severe penalties weren't in order. It was wrong and it deserved penalties. I just think Goodell went too far in what, at the end of the day, was simply bad PR and empty macho locker room bullshiat. In my opinion I don't think a single player was injured that would not have been injured absent the bounty program. The program was certainly wrong - I just don't think it actually accomplished its stated goal. If we had statistical evidence that you were more likely to be injured vs the saints because of this program I would feel differently. I'd levy a severe punishment for people planning to murder someone. I'd levy an even more severe punishment for those who actually accomplished it.

Kurt Warner. Brett Favre.

Blows my mind people think there isn't stats showing it worked. They won the Superbowl... Did you watch that NFC Championship game? I don't think just Vikings fans thought their intent that entire game was to hurt Favre, and they did. He never played the same after that game. Warner retired.