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Feeling a little angry there?
I don't think I was saying we lost the OB, the point was the bad call by a ref (judge) changed the tone of the game, which we could have lost. Refs blow a lot of calls during a season and some do change the outcome of a game ala Packers vs Seahawks.
Actually I don't know if there's too many things nowadays that could be called a "sport", most of them have become businesses and the $$$$ rules the outcome.

Not angry. Refs make mistakes but they do not have the ability to change the value of a score and such. You literally proved my point by bringing up the outback bowl. We had officials who sucked but yet we on the field could decide who won the game. That can not happen in a judges event. If the officials want someone to win then the other teams have no ability to overcome that.

And if the football is an inch short of the marker, it's not a first down, right? The point is the opinions of someone not actually playing the game can determine the outcome. A ref could throw a flag on the play where you run through the back of the endzone and say you were taunting, and that would negate the score. Your unwillingness to accept that cheerleaders are athletes and are every bit as competitive as other sports (much more so than certain other "sports" like bowling and billiards) amazes me. Like someone else said, I actually don't care if it's recognized as a sport officially or not, but to say it's not just because it has judges is just stupid. If they were to award point values that were black and white the way football and basketball do, make the judges "officials", and the participants were to do exactly the same things, that would suddenly make it a sport to you? If so, you're being intentionally dense.

Difference is in a sport a ref COULD determine the outcome, in judges events the ref DOES determine the outcome.

I find it ironic you call me intentionally dense while you sit here and try to argue the refs in football are the same as judges. On is literally there to say who wins. The other is there to make sure safety and equal playing field. Do refs mess up? Sure. But to equate a once in a lifetime bad call to countless stories of corruption and judges blaintantly scoring teams higher for without merit.

Difference is in a sport a ref COULD determine the outcome, in judges events the ref DOES determine the outcome.

I find it ironic you call me intentionally dense while you sit here and try to argue the refs in football are the same as judges. On is literally there to say who wins. The other is there to make sure safety and equal playing field. Do refs mess up? Sure. But to equate a once in a lifetime bad call to countless stories of corruption and judges blaintantly scoring teams higher for without merit.

So at all levels football champions are determined by a vote? Also their play on the actual games are decided by the players, not some pollster. For your logic to work, it would be the pollsters voting who wins games, to equate to cheer.

So at all levels football champions are determined by a vote? Also their play on the actual games are decided by the players, not some pollster. By your logic, it would be the pollsters voting who wins games, to equate to cheer.

As much as you wish they were the same, the argument does not hold.

It has become obvious at this point that you basically just won't accept the truth of the matter, and you would rather be content with your opinion and having the last word, so that's fine. As I said, though, the fact that there are judges who determine the scores should not be what defines whether something is a sport, because I sincerely believe gymnasts, cheerleaders, and anyone else who participates in a "judged" event train every bit as hard or harder than other athletes, so why should the system of scoring determine whether someone is an athlete or something is a sport?

I just have a huge problem with your way of thinking because it essentially means an obese individual who couldn't walk a quarter of a mile without needing oxygen afterward but can bowl a 300 every time will be considered an athlete, but the young man or woman who trains their ass off to be in peak physical condition so that he or she can can compete in cheerleading, diving, gymnastics, figure skating, etc. will not be just because of way the respective events' scores are calculated.

It has become obvious at this point that you basically just won't accept the truth of the matter, and you would rather be content with your opinion and having the last word, so that's fine. As I said, though, the fact that there are judges who determine the scores should not be what defines whether something is a sport, because I sincerely believe gymnasts, cheerleaders, and anyone else who participates in a "judged" event train every bit as hard or harder than other athletes, so why should the system of scoring determine whether someone is an athlete or something is a sport?

I just have a huge problem with your way of thinking because it essentially means an obese individual who couldn't walk a quarter of a mile without needing oxygen afterward but can bowl a 300 every time will be considered an athlete, but the young man or woman who trains their ass off to be in peak physical condition so that he or she can can compete in cheerleading, diving, gymnastics, figure skating, etc. will not be just because of way the respective events' scores are calculated.

If you look at my previous posts, I said that what they do is extremely impressive and, yes, they are athletes. I do not consider judged events to be sports. It is possible to separate the two aspects.

It has become obvious at this point that you basically just won't accept the truth of the matter, and you would rather be content with your opinion and having the last word, so that's fine. As I said, though, the fact that there are judges who determine the scores should not be what defines whether something is a sport, because I sincerely believe gymnasts, cheerleaders, and anyone else who participates in a "judged" event train every bit as hard or harder than other athletes, so why should the system of scoring determine whether someone is an athlete or something is a sport?

I just have a huge problem with your way of thinking because it essentially means an obese individual who couldn't walk a quarter of a mile without needing oxygen afterward but can bowl a 300 every time will be considered an athlete, but the young man or woman who trains their ass off to be in peak physical condition so that he or she can can compete in cheerleading, diving, gymnastics, figure skating, etc. will not be just because of way the respective events' scores are calculated.

Exactly.

Gymnastics is one ofthe most demanding and dangerous SPORTS out there. Do you see what those girls an guys do? Don't tell me it's not a sport because it is judged.

Not angry. Refs make mistakes but they do not have the ability to change the value of a score and such. You literally proved my point by bringing up the outback bowl. We had officials who sucked but yet we on the field could decide who won the game. That can not happen in a judges event. If the officials want someone to win then the other teams have no ability to overcome that.

I'm not out to prove or disprove anyone's point. I merely pointed out that refs, umpires, officials, judges, etc bad calls can change the outcome of a game
This is another of those silly arguements that is unwinnable by either side because it is based on opinion, not fact and no one is going to believe their opinion is wrong.
I leave you with this:

Competitive cheerleading may not be a sport, but competitive eating sure as hell is.....Kobayashi going against the insatiable Sonya (the Black Widow) Thomas, against my all time favorite, lock first round MLE Hall of Famer Joey Chestnut.