Ron Paul: "Leave Ukraine Alone"

Last week Ukraine saw its worst violence since the break-up of the Soviet Union over 20 years ago. Protesters occupying the main square in the capitol city, Kiev, clashed with police leaving many protesters and police dead and many more wounded. It is an ongoing tragedy and it looks like there is no end in sight.

The current conflict stems from a divide between western Ukraine, which seeks a closer association with the European Union, and the eastern part of the country, which has closer historic ties to Russia.

The usual interventionists in the US have long meddled in the internal affairs of Ukraine. In 2004 it was US government money that helped finance the Orange Revolution, as US-funded NGOs favoring one political group over the other were able to change the regime. These same people have not given up on Ukraine. They keep pushing their own agenda for Ukraine behind the scenes, even as they ridicule anyone who claims US involvement.

A recent leaked telephone conversation between two senior government officials made it clear that not only was the US involved in the Ukrainian unrest, the US was actually seeking to determine who should make up the next Ukrainian government!

Senator John McCain, who has made several trips to Ukraine recently to meet with the opposition, wrote last week that the US must stand up to support the territorial integrity of Ukraine, including Crimea.

Why are US government officials so eager to tell the Ukrainians what they should do? Has anyone bothered to ask the Ukrainians? What if might help alleviate the ongoing violence and bloodshed, if the Ukrainians decided to re-make the country as a looser confederation of regions rather than one tightly controlled by a central government? Perhaps Ukraine engaged in peaceful trade with countries both to the west and east would benefit all sides. But outside powers seem to be fighting a proxy war, with Ukraine suffering the most because of it.

If you asked most Americans how they feel, my bet is that you would discover they are sick and tired of the US government getting involved in every crisis that arises. Certainly the American people want none of of this intervention in Ukraine. They understand, as recent polls have shown, that our interventionist foreign policy is only creating more enemies overseas. And they also understand that we are out of money. We could not afford to be the policemen of world even if we wanted to be.

And I bet if we asked the Ukrainians, a vast majority of them would prefer that the US — and Russia and the European Union — stay out their affairs and respect their sovereignty. Is it so difficult to understand why people resent being lectured and bribed by foreign governments? All we need to do is put ourselves in the place of the Ukrainians and ask ourselves how we would feel if we were in the middle of a tug-of-war between a very strong Canada on one side and a very strong Mexico on the other. We would resent it as well. So let’s keep our hands off of Ukraine and let them solve their own problems!

ZH populist nonsense. Sure, hands off, so Ukraine goes to the russians, who then use it to strong arm Europe (because of a non-interventionist policy) in to submission via their gas lines. This prompts, among other things, a new depression in Europe, which drags the US withi it since the Fed has to come a bailin'.

Non-interventionism is a naive policy in this day and age. You either play the globe or you don't play.

The US is not energy independent. We are not resource independent. Without continuing to pillage the whole world via economic and military might, we're screwed. People might not like that, but it's the reality of our time and there's no going back, American non-interventionism never even existed, it's a myth.

Or the Manifest Destiny. or the war of 1812. Or with Mexico in 1840. And non-stop ever since. America's entire history is one of imperialism. So what, our system is a good one and good systems spread. We may have our weaknesses, and although the new ZH crowd has this weird love affair with Putin, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't want Putin in Obama's seat. He might be a dolt but he's our dolt. And if there's one thing Putin's not it's anti-interventionist. I don't understand how the same crowd can like Ron Paul and Putin so much. weird.

If Putin was in Obama's seat they would hate him just as much, but because he's Russian doing the same shit they hate in an American everything's cool. Because that makes it more legitimate. Or something.

I don't understand how the same crowd can like Ron Paul and Putin so much. weird.

I don't like Putin, but I do respect his abilities and I do throughly enjoy watching him make Obama his bitch. I think that his demonstrated ability to outmaneuver people in geopolitics is what makes some people like him. It is charisma that works on irrationality. Or it is simply watching our dolt fail miserably while Putin does, for better or worse, succeed at being a strong leader. People are drawn to success.

But Putin is former KGB, and that should never be forgotten.

Now then, Ron Paul? Yeah, I like the guy. I respect the ideals that he seems to have stood on.

Thank you for summarizing the thoughts of this whole swath of morons. Because you don't like Obama, you want to see America fail in it's endeavours overseas. We're trying to support a nation moving westward instead of eastward, and your hatred of the president is so blinding you actually take sides with a tyrant. But you like Ron Paul so that makes it less treasonous, I guess.

Uh, no. Because America's endeavors overseas are largely corrupt and destructive, I want to see America's endeavors overseas fail. US meddling is going to bring death and destruction to Ukraine if we are not careful. We are supporting a nation moving to the IMF so that it can get raped by Western bankers and the EU. Watch the following video and take full note of what Victoria Nuland says:

We DON'T like seeing the US fail. That's why we're so mad and enraged about what is happening with our country.

Obama and his academia based cabinet of wayward wannabe's just can't seem to do anything right. There's a big difference between theory and practicality. Their efforts are doing far more damage than good - which could be their actual goal, who knows.

"We're trying to support a nation moving westward instead of eastward,..."

We're trying to support a nation moving westward instead of eastward, so we can rob these people with impunity and without hindrance. We do not care about the opinion of these people their will and their choice. We need slaves and vassals. Our main goal - to be able to live well at someone else's expense. Not so, my friend? LOL

Since George Washington was a strong advocate of a non interventionist foreign policy, was he "treasonous"?

Listen up you idiot fucking dolt. You and people like you have NO FUCKING business spending money we don't have and condemning my young son to a life of debt slavery so you can send other people to fight useless wars for people who hate our guts in the name of 'manifest destiny'.

Define "screwed". If TPTB layed out their "plan" to the American people I feel confident that the majority would choose to lump it rather than be a party to the continued raping and pillaging the world.

Amazingly enough, I have faith in my fellow Americans. We are a free and armed nation. We can, and will create opportunities that will far outweigh the need for fear based controlling psycho-babble. If put to the test, we can and will create/invent ways to make energy, regardless of other controlling nations, with the ability to defend house by house.

I think what people may be trying to communicate with you is: If you stop lying, stop killing, speak the truth maybe, just maybe others wont be as angry with you.

Putting it in simple terms. Would you want to fight Bruce Lee or have a dinner with him. He was a very peaceful man, loving, centered and I would never fuk with him - I would get my ass beat. Your argument is akin to, acting like a child, through fear, telling lies to get out of trouble, without understanding that he will one day have to look in the mirror and realize that he is a punk ass bitch. I say grow up. Invent. Believe in yourself. Become independent. Arm yourselves; Heavily.

For your reading pleasure I have linked an article that shoots the shit out of your argument. Remember the colonialist european nations that drew a bunch of arbitrary lines on the map of Africa to "tame the savages", and in the French's case, to "save them"? How many millions of lives do you think are acceptable losses to engineer your centrally planned utopia? How many children would you kill to bring about your ideal geopolitical configuration? Really, I want to know!

How many children would you kill to bring about your ideal geopolitical configuration?

Oh you know me, probably all of them. Children suck. But it's not about our geopolitical engineering, dummy. Russia is not staying out of anyone's business, neither is Iran, China, etc... Isolationism is impossible in today's world, or at the very least, is a slow death sentence. The few countries that do practice it do so under the protection of other, inteventionist countries.

Well if you've got such a hard-on to rewire the world, I invite you to go pick up a rifle and do the dirty work yourself. I've seen enough death, lost enough friends and don't particularly care to be shot at anymore.

It's not isolationism, it's called international commerce, kinda like China's foreign policy till now, or the foreign policy that was prescribed by OUR FUCKING FOUNDERS IN THE GOD DAMN CONSTITUTION! But you're probably one of those that thinks the constitution is an outdated document. The cowards that advocate violence and war, then call it "foreign policy" are always too spineless and limp-dicked to actually participate in their bloodlust. That's the job for the kids to get their asses blown up.

2 wrongs don't make a right. This whole paragraph is likely wasted typing since you're not even able to determine with your vapid little rotten brain that the website fooledbyrandomness.com belongs to Nassim Taleb. Jesus fucking Christ, people are fucking stupid!

Take a breath, man. Of course our constitution says that. Find one that says "we will conquer as much as possible by all means possible" for me. The point is we've been imperial since the early 1800's, as soon as we had any power to wield at all. Your theory is just that, and your understanding of history is not-so-good. But there's no need to get angry, that makes it look like you're losing the argument. My point is that we have never had a non-interventionist policy in this country and that most of those who all of a sudden think it's the way to go, are really just angry that Obama is president. Get over it, 2 more you and you can have Hillary. ;)

You make a valid point about Obama altering the viewpoint of people who may have ignored the imperialism of the US. However I think 6 years of Obama have shattered the illusion for millions (more) that voting matters. The Republic has been exposed as a facade concealing a fascist regime controlled by unknowns.

I'm so glad you're worried about my feelings. Don't worry, I'm not angry. It's just my military character coming out. It comes out when stupidity abounds.

Yes, we've been imperial since the 1800s and fascist since Lincoln. We did in fact have an anti-foreign imperial government (if not counting the massacre of indians) in the beginning. But human nature is always attracted to conquering foreign lands. I think your history education is actually the one lacking.

Ah, and the meat of your argument:" non-intervention = anger that Obama is president."

Utter and complete bullshit! People are angry at their soldier family members being maimed, killed and wrecked by decades of war. People are pissed at the covert operations to topple governments since WWII. By any fair accounting, the United States government has perpetrated as much murder as the Nazis or Stalin. Millions of children, millions of innocents. That's why people are pissed. The troops are tired of being used as fodder. The people are tired of their country's treasury being raided. They're also pissed because the illusion of their freedom is being pulled away. They're seeing the crime of those in power. It hardly matters who is elected president. They're interchangeable parts, and the real control is elsewhere.

You don't even know what you don't know. I'd recommend a field trip to some shit hole like Afghanistan where you'll receive gunfire and IED attacks to understand the results of your interventionism.

In the mid eighties the congress, on consent of the people, set a policy of non intervention into the civil war in Nicaraugua.......So our beloved central government with the whores from Wall Street in tow simply dumped dope in our cities to fund what we would not.

"We" have not been imperial - that belongs to the dupes and catspaws. Those who make excuses for it, that cant accept the responsibility of self government.

"so Ukraine goes to the russians, who then use it to strong arm Europe (because of a non-interventionist policy) in to submission via their gas lines. This prompts, among other things, a new depression in Europe, which drags the US withi it since the Fed has to come a bailin'."

ukraine has basically been a part of Russia (muscovy) since the mid - 1600's - AND was part of the USSR etc

Its like if Russia gave the tea party $40 billion to foment violent unrest in Texas and Mexico - What do you think the USA reaction would be? shooting 50 "protesters" would be the least of it -heck the US beat the hell out of the Occupy protesters and shot them in the head with rubber bullets for sleeping in a dirty park in Winter.

The ethnic Russians are thick on the ground in the SE Ukraine right up until you get up to a line going through the Ukraine that intersects these cities Karkhiv - Kremenchuk - Chisinau. Then they thin out so he doesn't need any of that territory to the north west of that line.

Taking all of that secures the ethnic Russians, cuts the EU off that part of the Black Sea and keeps the bulk of the major pipelines in Russian dominated hands.

The IMF is already falling on itself to entangle Ukraine in debt coils so they will pay for the part that Russia doesn't want.

Ivan's not going to have to invade. He'll be invited in and racing across to Odessa.

And no one in the EU / US is going to go into a hot war over Ukranian territory.

Would be interesting if confirmed. In any case, with so many unemployed in the E.Z., I can certainly see how this "conquest by other means" could easily work. ('mericans should be so motivated, for now, too fat and lazy to get off the couch)

This thing is done...over...kaput...sinara...etc.
"Just waving a red flag in front of a bull."

Obviously "Ukraine" wasn't going to be left alone as Merkel and Putin were busy "carving her up" ala Poland.
Instead of a bunch of kids with baseball bats "beat the crap out of their man" and he fled "with his furniture" apparently.

Not that Ron Paul doesn't know a thing or two about "Federal largesse."
His district was the country's largest recipient.

Actually, he comes from a rural district with a lot of farms. He consistently voted against farm subsidies and his district still elected him again and again. Pure Constitutionalist. You are right on one count... he does know a lot about Federal lagersse, which is why he voted _against_ his own bill to audit the Fed. It was watered down and packed with it.

Wish he'd stay away - there was a 1000% chance something like that would happen. It's not like msnbc will cover Israel's racist rabbis, but they'll sure do their homework to find out that some tiny catholic group, one of hundreds of groups RP has spoken to in the past 10 years, dosn't like zionism.

And he's right - he's targeted for his non-interventionism. Because it means not expending more american blood and treasure on a racist, apartheid, nuclear rogue tiny state that is a net economic and security liability.

The Russian Foreign Ministry issued a statement Feb. 24 saying the new government in Ukraine wants to use "dictatorial and sometimes terrorist methods" to suppress opposition, RIA Novosti reported. According to the ministry statement, the Ukrainian authorities are calling for a ban on the use of the Russian language and trying to abolish opposing parties, shutter any media organizations that disagree with the ruling party and drop restrictions on neo-Nazi propaganda.

The E.U. and U.S. have supported neo-Nazi West Ukrainian fascists taking power by armed force. The new "regime" is already taking active steps to oppress opponents (who were the majority in the Rada 2012 elections). Not going to turn out well.

I have a hard time seeing Putin back down but on the other hand every default, catastrophe, etc etc etc that comes up is washed away like it never happened and turned into a non-event will this be the same? They are clearly throwing the rule book in the trashcan and forging ahead towards the unltimate goal because no one can stop them. Or at least that's what they think.

If there is a dollar to be pilfered or a pocket to be picked, the IMF and other black-hole blood sucking organizations will be on the scene. The monkey-fucking, child-molesting, demon cats in the CFR must be wetting their pants over this.

it's just the typical EU/NWO Globalist Kleptocratic socipath scumbags doing what they do best. Ron is right, but obviously the Globalists don't give a rats ass about him or the rest of us for that matter. They only care about world domination and enslaving the world population.

Ukraine's best friend right now is Putin. He turned obama back in Syria and he gained a lot of credibility for putting obama in his place like the little puppet bitch that he is.

Putin needs to use that same leverage to defend Ukraine from the NWO and save it from the EU vampires. He needs to threaten all out war against the first EU scumbags who try to take over the Ukraine. That'll rattle their cages and they'll back down for now.

Then he needs to wipe out the terrorists who were funded by the NWO to stage this coup against the Ukraine government. No mercy. Kill them all and those who are captured beat every last bit of information out of them about who funded them and how until he has totally exposed the NWO and all who support it such as the criminal elements within our own government as the bad guys in all of this.

If Putin can stuff this takeover and expose how rotten the NWO agenda is he could very well not only save Ukraine and Russia but it could spread around the world and the NWO could be wiped out for good.

He's got the upper hand and he can't let Ukraine fall to the Globalists. He's got to threaten all out war and force them to back down and he has to follow through hard core if they don't back down. If he's truly against the NWO and doesn't want Russia to eventually fall into their grasp then he need to kick some ass right now in Ukraine. If he doesn't do so then we all know he's just another one of them and that's he's not as credible as we thought. This is a big move for him and Russia...I hope he kicks some NWO ass!

What you wrote is exactly why this insanity will not stop until political power is diffused and descaled. The world will increasingly catch fire until sociopathic politicians (99% of them) can only affect control over a very small area, e.g. their local community. Then when some idiot has delusions of control, they can be influenced back to a normal behavior, by public shame, removal from office, or in extreme cases, shot.

The problem is when you have systems that are designed to concentrate power at a national and global level, the worst among us will inevitably rise to the top. The result is tragic and predictable. The systems must be designed so that even the worst among us cannot do damage no matter how they try.

It's highly likely, we will experience a global war for the ages with actors not limited to nation-states until the systems rebalance to something similar to what I described.

Ron is right. How can you pick sides in the Ukraine when the choice is marxists from the EU, and Putin. The country is a neighbor of Russia and more than half the population speak that language. Putin has a right to defend them, and getting involved in that type of ethnic conflict is a bad idea. The EU doesn't represent freedom and democracy. How many governments have we seen appointed by the EU central planners and politburo in Italy and Greece ? That had nothing to do with democracy and Farage has pointed that out numerous times.

Ron Paul 2008, 2012 and 2016? Giver hell Ron, Screw the GOP, you have delegates in both parties now Ron. The DFL can go fuck off as well. I notice that they are not really liking me too much over in the DFL though. I am already over that. I think those dipshits figured out what I was doing. Now I want to see their finances and where it comes from. Quit fucking around, where is the Treasurer's report?