(17-12-2011 12:09 PM)niqi Wrote: When I was a catholic I dated a jewish guy whose family had me attend a few of their sabbath suppers. Although I could not understand much, they translated some of the prayers for me and I was shocked to realize that they were the same ones that my church used - minus the reference to Jesus.

I have heard that many jewish families consider their religion as only one part of these rituals - part of it is history, tradition, stories, culture, etc. perhaps if you told them that you will still hold on to your culture and history they might be less inclined to convert you each week. or maybe they just don't know how to act around you now.

My parents are still catholic while my husband, kids and I are all recent atheists. We wrote them a letter and tried to spell out what would be allowed (can say you are praying for us since it is the same as making a wish - not much good but not very harmful) and what would no longer be acceptable (trying to convert the kids any time they see them). And so far it has been ok - my mom has asked if she could get the kids an angel ornament for their tree and I said that a star or snowflake would be preferable. She wanted to get them a craft to do and decided on some felt penguins skating. So i can see she is really trying to get along.

Hugs to you and hope you can reach an agreement with your family on how to behave around one another

You dated a Jewish guy?
I wonder, how did his family accept you?

The reason I'm asking is that Jewdaism forbids Jewish people to marry or even socialize with non-jewish people.

Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to
believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?
Douglas Adams

(17-12-2011 12:09 PM)niqi Wrote: When I was a catholic I dated a jewish guy whose family had me attend a few of their sabbath suppers. Although I could not understand much, they translated some of the prayers for me and I was shocked to realize that they were the same ones that my church used - minus the reference to Jesus.

I have heard that many jewish families consider their religion as only one part of these rituals - part of it is history, tradition, stories, culture, etc. perhaps if you told them that you will still hold on to your culture and history they might be less inclined to convert you each week. or maybe they just don't know how to act around you now.

My parents are still catholic while my husband, kids and I are all recent atheists. We wrote them a letter and tried to spell out what would be allowed (can say you are praying for us since it is the same as making a wish - not much good but not very harmful) and what would no longer be acceptable (trying to convert the kids any time they see them). And so far it has been ok - my mom has asked if she could get the kids an angel ornament for their tree and I said that a star or snowflake would be preferable. She wanted to get them a craft to do and decided on some felt penguins skating. So i can see she is really trying to get along.

Hugs to you and hope you can reach an agreement with your family on how to behave around one another

You dated a Jewish guy?
I wonder, how did his family accept you?

The reason I'm asking is that Jewdaism forbids Jewish people to marry or even socialize with non-jewish people.

Only orthodox or conservative Jews would agree. Reform and liberal Jews, not so much.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.

(17-12-2011 07:12 AM)Malleus Wrote: I started writing my story as an answer to a question about how to deal as an atheist with a religious family. However, it got too long and I decided to make a thread of my own.

I have studied for 10 years at my family's expense to become a priest in Eastern Orthodox Christianity. Understandably, when all that was finished and my change started happening, they were very unhappy to hear that, whatever happens, I *will not* become a priest because I can't any more.

They asked why. I explained that I will have to preach things that I can no longer believe and I will lie to myself and others by speaking against my honest opinions and hating myself for it every day of my life. My other choice was to become a priest and start preaching what I truly think about it all - which may happen at some point even if I made the first choice. How long can one be expected to keep hating himself before he decides to change? In the second case, however, they would kick me out so fast that everybody's head will be spinning and that will bring shame and disgrace to my family.

They tried to address my doubts and they failed because, after 10 years, I was the true Christian authority in that house. They simply had to admit that they didn't have any good answer to my questions and arguments.

From that point on, a few things started happening.

For one thing they avoided talking to me about it any more. We focused on being a family. I never shied away from discussions. In fact I welcomed them because they were clearing my mind, I had no atheistic contacts whatsoever and I wanted to understand what's going on with me too. For at least 3 years I was not aware that I am an atheist. I just thought that I have weird obsessive opinions that won't leave me the fuck alone.

I refused to go to church any more. I still went for a while, but I felt the need to smirk, grin or roll my eyes at everything and, while I was still desperately looking for some sort of god figure to get my life to make sense again, I felt that the entire church experience only hurts and annoys me.

For all those 10 years, I had educated and shaped myself into a kind, mild, understanding man with a deep desire to help others because that's what I thought a priest should be like. (None of the altar-boy raping shit. Before becoming a priest, I was expected to get married and become a good and responsible family man OR to take a vow of chastity for the rest of my life, but the latter was strongly discouraged for non-monks). That general attitude did not change along with my de-conversion. I did not start drinking, I never did drugs, I didn't start chasing random skirt and, in general, I tried really hard not to embarrass my family who did all they could to raise me properly.

My character and training made many people to come to me for confessions or advice on various matters not only related to religion even if I made it very clear that, as a non-priest, I cannot and will not provide forgiveness for anything. That went on after my de-conversion. The only change was my question: "Do you want my answer or the Christian answer to that?". Generally they asked for both and that helped everybody, me included.

Whenever my parents complained to people about my change and my strange ideas, they got the same answer from everybody: "There is no way that this man can go to hell. If there is a just and loving god, he MUST understand what's going on. He (me) is not doing this on a whim and he is honestly and seriously looking for answers and it's simply unfair for anybody, god included, to punish him for that".

I emigrated to Ireland due to personal reasons, but I keep a close and warm relationship with my family thanks to technology. However, we no longer talk religion. The word "atheist" was never mentioned, even if, in the mean time, I accepted the label. However they do know that I no longer consider myself as Christian, that I do not have any religion, that I am a skeptic and if I still have an opinion about god, it's nothing like any religion describes. And they seem to accept that. They still go to church every Sunday and they still pray for me, but not for god to change my opinions, just for me to live a good and fulfilling life. And I'm fine with that too.

Interesting story though

Some believer must tell his / her story concerning how he / she dealt / deals with atheistic family members haha because i have none, thank God

When you talk about religions, you say religion as if all religions are the same , silly really

All religions are not forms of christianity

Your Eurocentric definition of religion is not universal either , not even remotely close

You have been committing the same unscientific groundless generalization thought error your own Eurocentric "enlightenment " had done = considering all religions the same

I don't think all religions are the same, some are more or less absurd or dangerous.
For instance, any religion that says you must believe in it or die is dangerous.
Any religion that says it is the one true religion probably isn't.

All religions that believe in the supernatural are equally false.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.

When you talk about religions, you say religion as if all religions are the same , silly really

All religions are not forms of christianity

Your Eurocentric definition of religion is not universal either , not even remotely close

You have been committing the same unscientific groundless generalization thought error your own Eurocentric "enlightenment " had done = considering all religions the same

What you're actually saying is, that we need to distinguish between a fairytale about a sadistic man (YES man) in the sky who just likes the smell of blood, and anoter fairytale about a sadistic man (YES man) in the sky who sacrificed himself to himself?

Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to
believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?
Douglas Adams

When you talk about religions, you say religion as if all religions are the same , silly really

All religions are not forms of christianity

Your Eurocentric definition of religion is not universal either , not even remotely close

You have been committing the same unscientific groundless generalization thought error your own Eurocentric "enlightenment " had done = considering all religions the same

Some of us actually approve of some religions, and although we do not necessarily believe in them we feel they have a much better message and deliverance of this existance than say the messages handed out by faiths similiar to Judiasm and/or those based upon it.