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Topic: If I could only make one suggestion to new converts... (Read 3195 times)

It would be get involved with the parishoners and things going on at the parish. My relationships with people at the parish helped me tremendously in the spiritual life.

And if you can't develop any relationships, find a different parish. I had to leave my Greek one behind because I felt too alienated. Not their fault at all but it wasn't helping me regularly attend liturgies. I just didn't gel well with everyone else since I'm not Greek and sorry to say but it was an ethnic club. I used to attend Bible studies there, Wednesday nights and I got tired of being stared down night after night and nobody wanting anything to do with me.

Oh well bad experience, it happens so if you're experience isn't a good one I would suggest going around to different parishes until you feel comfortable in one.

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“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

It would be get involved with the parishoners and things going on at the parish. My relationships with people at the parish helped me tremendously in the spiritual life.

And if you can't develop any relationships, find a different parish. I had to leave my Greek one behind because I felt too alienated. Not their fault at all but it wasn't helping me regularly attend liturgies. I just didn't gel well with everyone else since I'm not Greek and sorry to say but it was an ethnic club. I used to attend Bible studies there, Wednesday nights and I got tired of being stared down night after night and nobody wanting anything to do with me.

Oh well bad experience, it happens so if you're experience isn't a good one I would suggest going around to different parishes until you feel comfortable in one.

One reason I really want to convert is this. My current parish, great people, loving, warm. But they just don't life the spirituality I want to live. I may be at the superficial point right now, but I think those in the Orthodox parish I visited are, at least on a certain level, living the spirituality I see. This is not a knock on the current parish I have, they are wonderful people and if by God's grace I do live life eternal in the Kingdom, I will not be surprised one bit if they are there. It is just a mismatch in terms of spirituality that I want to live, that I feel I need to live.

It would be get involved with the parishoners and things going on at the parish. My relationships with people at the parish helped me tremendously in the spiritual life.

And if you can't develop any relationships, find a different parish. I had to leave my Greek one behind because I felt too alienated. Not their fault at all but it wasn't helping me regularly attend liturgies. I just didn't gel well with everyone else since I'm not Greek and sorry to say but it was an ethnic club. I used to attend Bible studies there, Wednesday nights and I got tired of being stared down night after night and nobody wanting anything to do with me.

Oh well bad experience, it happens so if you're experience isn't a good one I would suggest going around to different parishes until you feel comfortable in one.

Unless you are introverts that hate socializing with the people they do not know and talk with them about unimportant things.

Would you advice things like volunteer activities and partaking in the church choir for example? At the moment i am just a catechumen (but thinking long term is not a bad thing right?).

I would. Getting involved with the choir in our previous parish was one of the best things I ever did, even if I did do it more by slowly drifting towards them than by any sudden conscious decision to join. I'm pretty shy around new people, unfortunately, and Byzantine chant made it doubly intimidating but it's a brilliant way to get to know people and really become a part of the community. We unfortunately had to move and have recently gone to a new parish and I had to go through the whole thing again (I'm still painfully shy and doubt my ability to sing, and our new parish has a couple of extremely good chanters to make things harder) but as of last Sunday I was chanting the ison. It really does make a huge difference get be involved, in whatever way you can, even if like me, it takes you a couple of months or more to pluck up the courage to dive in.

James

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We owe greater gratitude to those who humble us, wrong us, and douse us with venom, than to those who nurse us with honour and sweet words, or feed us with tasty food and confections, for bile is the best medicine for our soul. - Elder Paisios of Mount Athos

It's a fine line, isn't it, between sort of "shopping" for the perfect parish (which doesn't exist) and finding a parish that "fits"?

I sort of lean towards the "bloom where you are planted" idea myself.

I would suggest joining the closest parish so that you can attend more services, and be more involved in the activities and ministries.

I'd mostly agree with this and we've only ever moved parishes because we've had to move to a different area of the country. However, my wife's Romanian and I speak Romanian whereas neither of us have, for instance, a word of Greek, so whilst we could walk to a Greek parish in our town we don't because I'd rather we drove for 40 minutes to attend a parish where we can actually understand the liturgy.

James

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We owe greater gratitude to those who humble us, wrong us, and douse us with venom, than to those who nurse us with honour and sweet words, or feed us with tasty food and confections, for bile is the best medicine for our soul. - Elder Paisios of Mount Athos

For my own part, i do not worry, as i got some ideas and plan to learn russian in given time (if..God wills it).I attend at a russian orthodox parish (the only one i Oslo, Norway - orthodoxy is small scale here) and feel welcomed here.

« Last Edit: September 13, 2012, 11:51:34 AM by Tommelomsky »

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The meaning of life is to acquire the grace of the Holy Spirit.Saint Seraphim of Sarov

It would be get involved with the parishoners and things going on at the parish. My relationships with people at the parish helped me tremendously in the spiritual life.

And if you can't develop any relationships, find a different parish. I had to leave my Greek one behind because I felt too alienated. Not their fault at all but it wasn't helping me regularly attend liturgies. I just didn't gel well with everyone else since I'm not Greek and sorry to say but it was an ethnic club. I used to attend Bible studies there, Wednesday nights and I got tired of being stared down night after night and nobody wanting anything to do with me.

Oh well bad experience, it happens so if you're experience isn't a good one I would suggest going around to different parishes until you feel comfortable in one.

Unless you are introverts that hate socializing with the people they do not know and talk with them about unimportant things.

It would be get involved with the parishoners and things going on at the parish. My relationships with people at the parish helped me tremendously in the spiritual life.

And if you can't develop any relationships, find a different parish. I had to leave my Greek one behind because I felt too alienated. Not their fault at all but it wasn't helping me regularly attend liturgies. I just didn't gel well with everyone else since I'm not Greek and sorry to say but it was an ethnic club. I used to attend Bible studies there, Wednesday nights and I got tired of being stared down night after night and nobody wanting anything to do with me.

Oh well bad experience, it happens so if you're experience isn't a good one I would suggest going around to different parishes until you feel comfortable in one.

Unless you are introverts that hate socializing with the people they do not know and talk with them about unimportant things.

It would be get involved with the parishoners and things going on at the parish. My relationships with people at the parish helped me tremendously in the spiritual life.

And if you can't develop any relationships, find a different parish. I had to leave my Greek one behind because I felt too alienated. Not their fault at all but it wasn't helping me regularly attend liturgies. I just didn't gel well with everyone else since I'm not Greek and sorry to say but it was an ethnic club. I used to attend Bible studies there, Wednesday nights and I got tired of being stared down night after night and nobody wanting anything to do with me.

Oh well bad experience, it happens so if you're experience isn't a good one I would suggest going around to different parishes until you feel comfortable in one.

Unless you are introverts that hate socializing with the people they do not know and talk with them about unimportant things.

Just wana say to the "new" converts~look at it through others eyes also. God bless you all but you sure do ask allot of questions and make a lot of suggestions and demands, sometimes. Look at it through the old/cradle Orthodox eyes sometimes. it can get to be unbearable or at the least exhausting.thy come to church to worship and sometimes are bombarded with "why" or 'why not". Its not as if they don't want to help/teach you, its that you are probably NOT the only convert asking a million questions. they never asked the questions you ask! they were told this is our way and how we doooz it and they follow and things slowly become clearer. they would never dream of asking the questions you ask, sometimes it comes off as challenging the church, borderline blasphemy....why do u do it like that, wouldn't it be better to do it like this?...its spirit squashing when u go out of your way to help someone and deal with all the questions and suggestions and then, they decide orthodoxy after all is not for them or that church is just to ethnic and closed off from foreigners. so what do they do, they just clam up or avoid you and let the priest deal with the newbees.

on the flip side my church being 80-90%Greek is the other way around they attack the new people in the church, during coffee hr. for me that's off putting I'm a VERY private person and when 11 people come and ask me all kinds of personal question's i just wana run away!

So its a fine line-how much to help and how much to ask and suggest. i think the worst is the suggestions for changes from the newbees! Do you think you are superior to everyone elase to the priest to God! we think wait a Minuit: learn Orthodoxy first before you start making changes to it. Jeezz, especially considering we have been doing it like this for a few thousand years! its like someone new to Kung-fu telling the master, why do we do this form like this~wouldn't it be better to do it like this? Keep asking him that and he will probably SHOW you why...with an ass wipping! Just trust in our Orthodoxy, and how we do it, you are not let astray.

My suggestion to new converts would be this: Once you convert in your heart and mind to Orthodoxy and are committed to a life in the Church, put aside all of the habitual questioning, analyzing, debating, seeking, arguing, comparing, contrasting, nit-picking, and other all forms of mental busy-ness and instead, from day to day, Liturgy to Liturgy, moment to moment, live Orthodoxy. I would surely be much better off myself had I taken this kind of advice more seriously. As Fr. Seraphim Rose advised new converts in His Life and Works (sorry, I don't have the exact page number handy), once one enters the Church, one must then move more deeply into Orthodoxy through faith and practice or one is in danger of thinking themselves right out of the Church! I can attest that this danger is a real one. New converts beware!

« Last Edit: September 13, 2012, 12:36:35 PM by stavros_388 »

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"The kingdom of heaven is virtuous life, just as the torment of hell is passionate habits." - St. Gregory of Sinai

"Our idea of God tells us more about ourselves than about Him." - Thomas Merton

It would be get involved with the parishoners and things going on at the parish. My relationships with people at the parish helped me tremendously in the spiritual life.

And if you can't develop any relationships, find a different parish. I had to leave my Greek one behind because I felt too alienated. Not their fault at all but it wasn't helping me regularly attend liturgies. I just didn't gel well with everyone else since I'm not Greek and sorry to say but it was an ethnic club. I used to attend Bible studies there, Wednesday nights and I got tired of being stared down night after night and nobody wanting anything to do with me.

Oh well bad experience, it happens so if you're experience isn't a good one I would suggest going around to different parishes until you feel comfortable in one.

BTW, I think this is an excellent suggestion... one that I believe would serve me well to put into regular practice.

Logged

"The kingdom of heaven is virtuous life, just as the torment of hell is passionate habits." - St. Gregory of Sinai

"Our idea of God tells us more about ourselves than about Him." - Thomas Merton

It would be get involved with the parishoners and things going on at the parish. My relationships with people at the parish helped me tremendously in the spiritual life.

And if you can't develop any relationships, find a different parish. I had to leave my Greek one behind because I felt too alienated. Not their fault at all but it wasn't helping me regularly attend liturgies. I just didn't gel well with everyone else since I'm not Greek and sorry to say but it was an ethnic club. I used to attend Bible studies there, Wednesday nights and I got tired of being stared down night after night and nobody wanting anything to do with me.

Oh well bad experience, it happens so if you're experience isn't a good one I would suggest going around to different parishes until you feel comfortable in one.

Unless you are introverts that hate socializing with the people they do not know and talk with them about unimportant things.

It's called being WELCOMING.

And some people do not like that.

I have found my home.

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The meaning of life is to acquire the grace of the Holy Spirit.Saint Seraphim of Sarov

My suggestion to new converts would be this: Once you convert in your heart and mind to Orthodoxy and are committed to a life in the Church, put aside all of the habitual questioning, analyzing, debating, seeking, arguing, comparing, contrasting, nit-picking, and other all forms of mental busy-ness and instead, from day to day, Liturgy to Liturgy, moment to moment, live Orthodoxy. I would surely be much better off myself had I taken this kind of advice more seriously. As Fr. Seraphim Rose advised new converts in His Life and Works (sorry, I don't have the exact page number handy), once one enters the Church, one must then move more deeply into Orthodoxy through faith and practice or one is in danger of thinking themselves right out of the Church! I can attest that this danger is a real one. New converts beware!

Perfect: "put aside all of the habitual questioning, analyzing, debating, seeking, arguing, comparing, contrasting, nit-picking, and other all forms of mental busy-ness and instead"

I at first did not know this site is vastly converts and was shocked by the questions and discussions on here! Then i thought, ok thats the american analitical minde set. but you over due it.

Just Chillax! In buddhisim its called "monkey mind". stop questioning everything!Our religion is abt.....FAITH, not logic.

I could make a lot of suggestions to new converts. Mostly, I suggest we learn to listen more and talk less. Not everyone wants to hear my conversion story, not everyone wants to know my ideas about "the future of Orthodoxy in America," not everyone wants to hear my plans to improve congregational singing, etc. Rather than expect to be elected to the parish council so I can "fix things," I should wash the dishes after coffee hour. This will endear us to the people of our new parish and we will learn a lot in the process.

Sometimes us converts need to be reminded that we need to conform to Orthodoxy and Orthodoxy does not need to conform to us. The Church got along just fine for 2000 years before we made our brilliant discovery of her.

Of course, we may discover that we do have some valuable things to contribute to our parish. Don't force it in a noisy way, is my suggestion.

It's a fine line, isn't it, between sort of "shopping" for the perfect parish (which doesn't exist) and finding a parish that "fits"?

I sort of lean towards the "bloom where you are planted" idea myself.

I would suggest joining the closest parish so that you can attend more services, and be more involved in the activities and ministries.

The closer Orthodox parishes to where we live are those ethnic parish types which is one of the things we are trying to get away from with our Eastern Catholic parish.

I wouldn't let ethnic parishes stop me. It would be a great opportunity to learn things from their culture as well.

« Last Edit: September 17, 2012, 01:33:18 PM by Cyrillic »

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"Who wants to be consistent? The dullard and the doctrinaire, the tedious people who carry out their principles to the bitter end of action, to the reductio ad absurdum of practice. Not I."-Oscar Wilde, The Decay of Lying

I wouldn't let ethnic parishes stop me. It would be a great opportunity to learn things from their culture as well.

Me, personally, no. But I have been trying to figure out what is the best scenario for my family to grow in the faith. My greatest fear is for my kids to fall out of the faith. If we are in an ethnic parish, we are already removed from that kind of affinity with everyone else. My greatest frustration right now is that people go to our parish because of their ethnic identity, not because of Byzantine spirituality. I go there not because of the ethnic culture, but because of Byzantine spirituality. We go to the same church but for completely different reasons. Even the catechesis program for children in our parish revolves around a "Ukrainian heritage school". My kids are not going to attend that! I offered to teach kids how to may prosphora, but no one took my offer. They think it is more important for kids to learn how to make perrogy and paint easter eggs.

I wouldn't let ethnic parishes stop me. It would be a great opportunity to learn things from their culture as well.

Me, personally, no. But I have been trying to figure out what is the best scenario for my family to grow in the faith. My greatest fear is for my kids to fall out of the faith. If we are in an ethnic parish, we are already removed from that kind of affinity with everyone else. My greatest frustration right now is that people go to our parish because of their ethnic identity, not because of Byzantine spirituality. I go there not because of the ethnic culture, but because of Byzantine spirituality. We go to the same church but for completely different reasons. Even the catechesis program for children in our parish revolves around a "Ukrainian heritage school". My kids are not going to attend that! I offered to teach kids how to may prosphora, but no one took my offer. They think it is more important for kids to learn how to make perrogy and paint easter eggs.

Quite understandable. I don't envy the position you're in.

« Last Edit: September 17, 2012, 01:54:22 PM by Cyrillic »

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"Who wants to be consistent? The dullard and the doctrinaire, the tedious people who carry out their principles to the bitter end of action, to the reductio ad absurdum of practice. Not I."-Oscar Wilde, The Decay of Lying

Not really. They are more or less the melting pot of the Roman Empire, if you want to call them that. Kind of like what America is today. What is really an American in terms of culture? Even among Caucasians, there's a stark difference between one who lives in New York, vs. one who lives in LA, vs. one who lives in Texas.

Not really. They are more or less the melting pot of the Roman Empire, if you want to call them that. Kind of like what America is today. What is really an American in terms of culture? Even among Caucasians, there's a stark difference between one who lives in New York, vs. one who lives in LA, vs. one who lives in Texas.

Well, our Church is not "Byzantine" (whatever tham means) It's open for all ethnicities.

Well, our Church is not "Byzantine" (whatever tham means) It's open for all ethnicities.

Good for you. Even the OCA priest I speak to would admit this problem of ethnic Churches within Orthodoxy. He bemoans the fact that he can walk into an ethnic Orthodox parish and be looked upon with suspicion not because they doubt he is an Orthodox priest, but because he is of a different ethnicity.

Does anybody even live Byzantien culture today? I am not against Ukrainian culture but I just do not think it will work for me and my family. We don't go to Church to become culturally Ukrainian.

That's not the answer to my question.

You're reading too much into it.

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"Who wants to be consistent? The dullard and the doctrinaire, the tedious people who carry out their principles to the bitter end of action, to the reductio ad absurdum of practice. Not I."-Oscar Wilde, The Decay of Lying

Not really. They are more or less the melting pot of the Roman Empire, if you want to call them that. Kind of like what America is today. What is really an American in terms of culture? Even among Caucasians, there's a stark difference between one who lives in New York, vs. one who lives in LA, vs. one who lives in Texas.

But one similarity we would all have is putting up a "Drive-thru Eucharist"

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“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

My suggestion would be to try to stop being so dismissive of so-called "ethnic" parishes. While it is possible to find jerks anywhere, people in ethnic parishes have so much to teach us who are learning Orthodoxy. IMHO we need to cultivate a little humility, and be open to learning from them.

Personally, I am humbled by the shining faith and piety of the old yiayias from Greece (who btw hug me, feed me and tell me what pretty curly hair I have!)

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"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

Well, what can I say. That is my experience. I will not say that every ethnic parish is that way, but I'd rather not float around from parish to parish but instead go to one where we could really grow spiritually. I guess one thing that really disappoints me being Eastern Catholic is that I do want that authentic Byzantine spirituality, but being Catholic means people in the parish don't really make that distinction between the spirituality of a Roman Catholic and one from an Eastern Church. To them the difference really is in the ethnicity and they only have a different Church service because of that ethnicity. This is why I believe what I have been told that it is impossible to be Orthodox in the Catholic "communion". Therefore there is no such thing as "Orthodox in communion with Rome"

My suggestion would be to try to stop being so dismissive of so-called "ethnic" parishes. While it is possible to find jerks anywhere, people in ethnic parishes have so much to teach us who are learning Orthodoxy. IMHO we need to cultivate a little humility, and be open to learning from them.

Personally, I am humbled by the shining faith and piety of the old yiayias from Greece (who btw hug me, feed me and tell me what pretty curly hair I have!)

Glad to see your experience was better than mine, and I know I've done alot of ethnic "bashing" as of late, but it would be more beneficial for the Church in the States, to have more of an "American" identity. The evangelism would be alot more successful so it wouldn't be tied down by Russian, Serbian, Greek cultures. There's nothing wrong with those cultures, but I'm sure it's an obstacle for many on conversion. You can say the OCA is there but a few of the parishes I've visited seemed to have rubbed some Russian influences on it, go figure.

I think opening up needs to go both ways though. My bad experience has shown that those who belong to what I consider ethnic clubs were not so willing to open up to outsiders such as myself.

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“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

My suggestion would be to try to stop being so dismissive of so-called "ethnic" parishes. While it is possible to find jerks anywhere, people in ethnic parishes have so much to teach us who are learning Orthodoxy. IMHO we need to cultivate a little humility, and be open to learning from them.

Personally, I am humbled by the shining faith and piety of the old yiayias from Greece (who btw hug me, feed me and tell me what pretty curly hair I have!)

Glad to see your experience was better than mine, and I know I've done alot of ethnic "bashing" as of late, but it would be more beneficial for the Church in the States, to have more of an "American" identity. The evangelism would be alot more successful so it wouldn't be tied down by Russian, Serbian, Greek cultures. There's nothing wrong with those cultures, but I'm sure it's an obstacle for many on conversion. You can say the OCA is there but a few of the parishes I've visited seemed to have rubbed some Russian influences on it, go figure.

I think opening up needs to go both ways though. My bad experience has shown that those who belong to what I consider ethnic clubs were not so willing to open up to outsiders such as myself.

One can also argue that Sts. Cyril and Methodius didn't force the Slavs to become Greeks or even use the Greek language.

I think opening up needs to go both ways though. My bad experience has shown that those who belong to what I consider ethnic clubs were not so willing to open up to outsiders such as myself.

Not to diss your experience, but when we go to so-called "ethnic" parishes, isn't it kind of like being a guest in someone's home, or at least the new in-law at the family reunion. ISTM, that we are the ones that should make the first effort, and not assume that we know everything about what is going on.

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"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

I think opening up needs to go both ways though. My bad experience has shown that those who belong to what I consider ethnic clubs were not so willing to open up to outsiders such as myself.

Not to diss your experience, but when we go to so-called "ethnic" parishes, isn't it kind of like being a guest in someone's home, or at least the new in-law at the family reunion. ISTM, that we are the ones that should make the first effort, and not assume that we know everything about what is going on.

The guest should never make the first effort. That is the host's duty. Etiquette 101.

I can only speak for myself yes, that i need to be less shy and try to get in touch with some of the russians yes. And i plan next year to attend russian classes, so i can speak with them in their language too.

Humblness is important and yes, i am indeed a guest in their house.

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The meaning of life is to acquire the grace of the Holy Spirit.Saint Seraphim of Sarov

Not to diss your experience, but when we go to so-called "ethnic" parishes, isn't it kind of like being a guest in someone's home, or at least the new in-law at the family reunion. ISTM, that we are the ones that should make the first effort, and not assume that we know everything about what is going on.

To me this sums up the problem. If you are just a "guest in someone's house" in an ethnic parish, then it wouldn't work. A parish community should be your greater family and thus you should be one of them, not just a guest in someone's house.

Not to diss your experience, but when we go to so-called "ethnic" parishes, isn't it kind of like being a guest in someone's home, or at least the new in-law at the family reunion. ISTM, that we are the ones that should make the first effort, and not assume that we know everything about what is going on.

To me this sums up the problem. If you are just a "guest in someone's house" in an ethnic parish, then it wouldn't work. A parish community should be your greater family and thus you should be one of them, not just a guest in someone's house.