phidas, thank you for your suggestion. The only work by Gergely jeno
and Balogh sandor that i have read is A katolikus
egyhaz magyarorszagon 1944-1971. (it was the only work of thiers that i
was able to get a hold of and unfortuanetely it was written in
1985.) i am looking for something more recent. I apologize for not
being more specific about my needs but I wasnt sure if this message would
get through. This time i will try to express myself more clearly.
What I really
would like to know is how did the church fare in its relations with the
Communist government in the years between 1950-89. Was church state
dialogue a desperate attempt on
the part of the cotholic church for a modus vivendi or was it a truly
genuine offer to work along side Communism. Did the church go too far in
its concessions, or better put, did the catholic church (and
the state for that matter) lose thier moral authority in the eyes of
the people because of concessions made to a diametrically opposed ideology.
Lastly, what role, if
any did the various basis groups play in Church-state politics (pl. the
bukor)
hopefully i have made myself more clear. If anyone knows
of any articles or books that could be useful to me; or have any thoughts
on the subject, i would be much obliged.
metro-roland dini

Hard sell - why on this list? Other lists seem to have
protection...
>> Until now this has only published for a selected number of users but is now> available to all. To receive your copy send a check or money order in US> dollars in the amount of 25.90(21.95 plus 3.95 S & H) made payable to A.I.
Dodd
>

>Date: Mon, 11 Sep 95 20:53 +0100>From: >To: >Subject: Failed mail.>>>Your message was not delivered to >For the following reason:>Could not create users mail basket>>This result may also be due to the user>not existing on the system>>>>>You may also find that you now have a mail message>in your outbasket that is marked unread to this user and>as it was not sent to the user it will remain unread>You can remove this entry by the command>delete <nnn> where nnn is the message number>>For more information contact >>Message text follows:>>----------------->>>From Mon Sep 11 20:53:00 1995>Received: from gwuvm.gwu.edu (gwuvm.gwu.edu [128.164.129.1]) by>tom.compulink.co.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA28688 for>; Mon, 11 Sep 1995 20:53:00 +0100>Received: from GWUVM.GWU.EDU by gwuvm.gwu.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2)> with BSMTP id 8328; Mon, 11 Sep 95 15:40:50 EDT>Received: from GWUVM.GWU.EDU by GWUVM.GWU.EDU (Mailer R2.10 ptf000) with BSMTP> id 6254; Mon, 11 Sep 95 15:40:45 EDT>Received: from GWUVM.GWU.EDU by GWUVM.GWU.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8b) with NJE> id 8953 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 1995 15:40:39 -0400>Received: from GWUVM (SMTPUSER) by GWUVM.GWU.EDU (Mailer R2.10 ptf000) with> BSMTP id 6210; Mon, 11 Sep 95 15:38:56 EDT>Received: from runt.dawsoncollege.qc.ca by gwuvm.gwu.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2)> with TCP; Mon, 11 Sep 95 15:38:54 EDT>Received: from [198.168.48.36] by 198.168.48.36 with SMTP; Mon, 11 Sep 1995> 15:41:34 -0400 (EDT)>Mime-Version: 1.0>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii">Message-ID: >>Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 15:39:04 -0400>Reply-To: Hungarian Discussion List >>Sender: Hungarian Discussion List >>From: "Peter I. Hidas" >>Subject: Failed mail.>To: Multiple recipients of list HUNGARY >>Apparently-To: >>>Date: Mon, 11 Sep 95 20:23 +0100>>From: >>To: >>Subject: Failed mail.>>>>>>Your message was not delivered to >>For the following reason:>>Could not create users mail basket>>>>This result may also be due to the user>>not existing on the system>>>>>>>>>>You may also find that you now have a mail message>>in your outbasket that is marked unread to this user and>>as it was not sent to the user it will remain unread>>You can remove this entry by the command>>delete <nnn> where nnn is the message number>>>>For more information contact >>>>Message text follows:>>>>----------------->>>>>From Mon Sep 11 20:23:32 1995>>Received: from gwuvm.gwu.edu (gwuvm.gwu.edu [128.164.129.1]) by>>tom.compulink.co.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA21815 for>; Mon, 11 Sep 1995 20:23:32 +0100>>Received: from GWUVM.GWU.EDU by gwuvm.gwu.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2)>> with BSMTP id 8098; Mon, 11 Sep 95 15:15:23 EDT>>Received: from GWUVM.GWU.EDU by GWUVM.GWU.EDU (Mailer R2.10 ptf000) with BSMT
P
>> id 5709; Mon, 11 Sep 95 15:15:17 EDT>>Received: from GWUVM.GWU.EDU by GWUVM.GWU.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8b) with NJ
E
>> id 8562 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 1995 15:15:11 -0400>>Received: from GWUVM (SMTPUSER) by GWUVM.GWU.EDU (Mailer R2.10 ptf000) with>> BSMTP id 5659; Mon, 11 Sep 95 15:13:31 EDT>>Received: from runt.dawsoncollege.qc.ca by gwuvm.gwu.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2)>> with TCP; Mon, 11 Sep 95 15:13:25 EDT>>Received: from [198.168.48.35] by 198.168.48.35 with SMTP; Mon, 11 Sep 1995>> 15:16:04 -0400 (EDT)>>Mime-Version: 1.0>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii">>Message-ID: >>>Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 15:13:34 -0400>>Reply-To: Hungarian Discussion List >>>Sender: Hungarian Discussion List >>>From: "Peter I. Hidas" >>>Subject: Re: Let's be truthful, Ms. Balogh!>>To: Multiple recipients of list HUNGARY >>>Apparently-To: >>>>>As an eyewitness on the streets of Budapest in 1956, I have a very strong>>>opinion of "historians" who professionally misrepresent the Hungarian>>>Revolution in 1956. It wasn't a "Socialist Revolution", my friends and>>>fellow countrymen>>>died in heroic bloody fights *against communism*". Thus, I'd like to>>>remind readers of Hungary that perhaps it is not by mere accident that she>>>elects to "ignore" her infamous treachery of Freedom Fighters. (To make it>>>worse, she kind of 'consciously ignores' the issue, another telling>>>oxymoron, similar to a 'socialist revolution' in a socialist country)>>>>> [Dr.Andras Pellionisz]>>>>The Revolution of 1956 was both a revolution and a fight for independence.>>The government of Imre Nagy was hoping to create a democratic socialist>>country; so Ms. Balogh, in my opinion, is correct in part. However, there>>were people who were not interested in the establishment of maintenance of>>any kind of socialist or communist state. The peasantry, that is the>>majority of the population of Hungary at that time, preferred private>>property and democracy of some kind. The middle classes outside of power>>hated the regime and were interested in restoration - and so was the>>Catholic Church. The workers were upset that they were told that they ruled>>the country when in fact they did not. In 1956 they wanted to take charge>>of the factories via the Workers' Councils. I would say they were>>anarchist-socialists. The revolutions was more anti-Soviet than>>anti-socialist for most of the population.>>Peter I. Hidas, Montreal>>>>Peter I. Hidas, Montreal>>>>Peter I. Hidas, Montreal>
Peter I. Hidas, Montreal

>phidas, thank you for your suggestion. The only work by Gergely jeno>and Balogh sandor that i have read is A katolikus>egyhaz magyarorszagon 1944-1971. (it was the only work of thiers that i>was able to get a hold of and unfortuanetely it was written in>1985.) i am looking for something more recent. I apologize for not>being more specific about my needs but I wasnt sure if this message would>get through. This time i will try to express myself more clearly.>What I really>would like to know is how did the church fare in its relations with the>Communist government in the years between 1950-89. Was church state>dialogue a desperate attempt on>the part of the cotholic church for a modus vivendi or was it a truly>genuine offer to work along side Communism. Did the church go too far in>its concessions, or better put, did the catholic church (and>the state for that matter) lose thier moral authority in the eyes of>the people because of concessions made to a diametrically opposed ideology.>Lastly, what role, if>any did the various basis groups play in Church-state politics (pl. the>bukor)>>hopefully i have made myself more clear. If anyone knows>of any articles or books that could be useful to me; or have any thoughts>on the subject, i would be much obliged.>metro-roland dini
Try to find access to the archives of Radio Free Europe. It was located
originally in Munich but I believe, the Soros Foundation purchased the
archives and it is now located in either Prague or Budapest. You may find
the publications of Radio Free Europe in any good scholarly library. You
may also ask Professor Emeritus Father Leslie Laszlo for more information;
Call 613-233-8603.
Best wishes,
P.I.Hidas
Peter I. Hidas, Montreal

Dear fellow listmembers,
Eva Durant asks about "protection" against such list-improprieties as
the recent "sugar and spice" posting.
Unless she means I should ask Tamas Kocsis for the contact number for
that advertisment he mentions ;-) and sic the Hungarian-Hoods-for-Hire
on unwanted posters, I don't know what to suggest beyond what we already
have. Listserv (tired old system that it is) can filter likely looking
"spams" when they arrive, but persistent or clever posters with the time
and energy or the correct script can circumvent it, for example by
posting individually to each list they wish to clutter with their
unrelated and irrelevant commercial postings.
One alternative action I could take would be to set the list parameters
so that only subscribers can post to the list, but I don't know what
effect that would have on the gatewayed newsgroup or the hix service's
provision of Hungary to its subscribers, and I wouldn't want to do that
without discussion on the list so that opinions could be expressed
and my ignorance regarding listserv and mainframe computers corrected.
Perhaps after the revolution, there won't be any spams allowed? :-)
Sincerely,
Hugh Agnew

This announcement from the International Research and Exchanges Board
is forwarded for listmembers' information. Contacts and requests for
further information should be sent to the e-mail addresses mentioned in
the body of the forwarded mail.
Sincerely,
Hugh Agnew
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Dear LISTSERV Moderator:
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information--please see 1995-1996 application for full guidelines).
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Jo napot kivanok to every one
My name is Panagiotis Antonopoulos.
I am a congenitally blind medieval scholar (Byzantinist) who, out of a long
standin affection for Hungary and the Hungarians, has been working on medieval
hungary and its relations with Byzantium.
As you can imagine, anything that can be found on the internet with reg
a
rd to
this subject, is extremely useful to me.
I therefore wonder if anyone knows of possibly being present some of the chief
periodicals on the subject, and I mean Szadok, magyar Nyelv and Ungarische
Jahrbuecher in particular.
If someone might prefer to answer in Hungarian, I can say that my Hunga
r
ian is
not very good, but I do understand and work in your language.
Any relevant information with regard to discussion forums on medieval H
u
ngary
would be appreciated.
Regards
Dr. Panagiotis Antonopoulos

My grandfather, Istvan CSONKA (son of Janos C. and Julianna
Lowasz), was born in ZemplinAgard, (old) County Zemplin,
immigrated to the U.S. in 1905. His brother Sandor was also in
U.S. for a time but then returned to Hungary, probably in the
1920s. I would like to try to find relatives living in Hungary. I
have gotten the suggestion of posting a notice in the regional
newspaper. Can somebody get me the address of that paper? The
address of a local municipal office would be helpful also... Any
other suggestions? I hope to visit Hungary within the next 2-3
years. Thanks!

Fencsik again:
>Joe, you don't understand. We are talking here about the top expert on>Tasmanian law in all of Hodmezovasarhely. Why does he need to translate>legal terminology from Hungarian into English? Isn't he Her Majesty's>Very Own Counsel for the States of Victoria and Tasmania, Dr. Jur., LL.B.>(Hons.), QC, and all that?
i smell the distinctive aroma of decaying marine matter here.
if "dr endrey" had been a solicitor in n.s.w. for 33 years, then he
could *not* have been a q.c. the legal profession in new south wales
and throughout australia is divided into several categories, and
the two prinicipal ones for legal practitioners being solicitors
and barristers. to become a barrister is called "being admitted to the
bar". a barrister *cannot* accept clients directly. a barrister may
only be briefed by a solicitor. "taking silk" is the term for becoming
a queen'd counsel and is restricted exclusively to barristers. a
barrister is prohibited from practising as a solicitor. about three
years ago, the government of new south wales "abolished" the q.c.
status. more precisely, it was decided to appoint n new q.c.'s, but
ll current q.c.'s would remain (unless queen elizabeth ii is
succeeded ny a king, in which case they atomatically become k.c.'s).
then several months ago the appointments were re-instated, whereby
the title has been changed to "senior counsel".
now the legal system and structures are not uniform across all
states and territories in australia, so it is possible that the
states of victoria and tasmania did or do appoint solicitors as
queen's counsel. it is also not impossible that one could be
simultaneously q.c. in more than one state, but until i obtain
confirmation from reliable sources, i remain sceptical.
where and when did "dr endrey" obtain his degrees and qualifications?
of course my scepticism does not bear at all on the merit or
worthlessness of the case he wishes to present. nor do i think
that residing in hodmezovasarhely in any way affects the legitimacy
or illegitimacy of his arguments, but i do not see what relevance
his claims to legal qualifications in tasmania and victoria have
any bearing on the matter, nor is it clear to me that his qualifications
as represented in this newsgroup are bona fide.
d.a.
0
0
now

Dear Peter (Hidas)!
You wrote:
>The government of Imre Nagy was hoping to create a democratic socialist>country; so Ms. Balogh, in my opinion, is correct in part.
Yes, I would have been *in part* correct if I had said what Mr. Pellionisz
says I said. But, of course, I didn't. I said that the revolution was
prepared, at least in the minds of the people, by people who turned against
the Stalinist version of socialism and hoped to transform the regime to a
socialist one, with a human face, to use a later phrase. The intellectuals
who were in the forefront of the events were socialists; the students were
socialists, or at least, they didn't want the return of capitalism. However,
said I, the revolution soon became more than an attempt at reforming the then
existing socialism. In it fought side by side many people of different
political persuasions from the far-left to the far-right.
In any case, it would have been difficult for me not to notice that there
were other parties present. First of all, I was twenty-years old and a member
of the Budapest Revolutionary Student Council; second, I happened to be
traveling with the convoy from Pecs to Budapest which brought Bela Kovacs,
head of the Smallholders Party to Budapest. Not only that but I was involved
with the publication of the longest-lasting underground newspaper--news
gathering was one of our tasks. After the revolution I read all the
publications concerning those events; and I organized a round-table
discussion on the revolution--Twenty Years After--at the annual meeting of
the American Historical Association. So, I do know something about the
Hungarian Revolution of 1956.
I don't keep my contributions to the Internet on file. If anyone is
interested in reading my original postings, I am sure he/she can find them in
the HIX archives. Those who take the trouble of reading the exchanges between
Mr. Pellionisz and myself can see that Mr. Pellionisz is a master of
distorting other people's ideas and writings. His tirades, most of the time,
have absolutely nothing to do with the truth.
Eva Balogh

Dear Eva,
While I agree with your evaluation of the revolution of 1956, the evaluation
that is presented in your September 12 communication, I regret that you found
it
necessary to tell me...
"If anyone is
interested in reading my original postings"...
By the way, when will you tell me about your sojourn to North America in 1956?
You promised!
Keep smiling,
Peter

Stephene Gority writes:
>> My grandfather, Istvan CSONKA (son of Janos C. and Julianna> Lowasz), was born in ZemplinAgard, (old) County Zemplin,> immigrated to the U.S. in 1905. His brother Sandor was also in> U.S. for a time but then returned to Hungary, probably in the> 1920s. I would like to try to find relatives living in Hungary. I> have gotten the suggestion of posting a notice in the regional> newspaper. Can somebody get me the address of that paper? The> address of a local municipal office would be helpful also... Any> other suggestions? I hope to visit Hungary within the next 2-3> years. Thanks!
zemplin is in eastern Slovakia. Try the Slovensky Vychod newspaper
(largest in the east) or Luc (competition) in Kosice.
If they moved to Hungary proper, you should say to which region.
Jan George Frajkor _!_
School of Journalism, Carleton Univ. --!--
1125 Colonel By Drive |
Ottawa, Ontario /^\
Canada K1S 5B6 /^\ /^\
/
o: 613 788-7404 fax: 613 788-6690 h: 613 563-4534

Fencsik Gabor writes:
>>His previous favorite was another "centralist" party (the MIEP, nee MUK).>>It has not not exactly been a hit with the voters at election time.
If the right is blamed with flaming remarks, the "center(left)" is not better.
Actually, I think sometimes worse. I read an article about Torgyan
in the Narancs, and its style was very much that of Fencsik Gabor.
Not that Torgyan, does not have his faults. Because of his behaviour
he has credebility problems, (at least in my eye), but the venom with
which he is attacked by the liberal estabilishment, is due mainly
to his temporary success.
As far as where is the center, it is all relative. The US is moving to
the right. Time could come, when the Smallholders Party, (maybe
with a different leader will be considered center-right. Of course
everybody, (including me), think, that they are unprejudiced, and
in the "desired" center of the political spectrum.
Sandor

I was also surprised to see that Mr. Pellionisz became a follower of Jozsef
Torgyan, whom everybody calls a "clown." (Bohoc, pojaca in the original.) In
today's Hungarian Report (1.22) the American journalists living in
Budapest--the editors of the electronic weekly--tell us that Torgyan's
"incessant outcries and speeches in Parliament, mostly attacking the
government for any imaginable reason, pepper each evening news with comic
relief." However, Torgyan's Smallholders are leading at the polls--not by
much, but leading. I really wonder whether one ought not to take "the clown"
more seriously. Think of Zhirinovsky, for example!
Eva Balogh

posted already. I have recieved a failure to send notification and am
reposting.
sincerely,
dini metro-roland
phidas, thank you for your suggestion. The only work by Gergely jeno
and Balogh sandor that i have read is A katolikus
egyhaz magyarorszagon 1944-1971. (it was the only work of thiers that i
was able to get a hold of and unfortuanetely it was written in
1985.) i am looking for something more recent. I apologize for not
being more specific about my needs but I wasnt sure if this message would
get through. This time i will try to express myself more clearly.
What I really
would like to know is how did the church fare in its relations with the
Communist government in the years between 1950-89. Was church state
dialogue a desperate attempt on
the part of the cotholic church for a modus vivendi or was it a truly
genuine offer to work along side Communism. Did the church go too far in
its concessions, or better put, did the catholic church (and
the state for that matter) lose thier moral authority in the eyes of
the people because of concessions made to a diametrically opposed ideology.
Lastly, what role, if
any did the various basis groups play in Church-state politics (pl. the
bukor)
hopefully i have made myself more clear. If anyone knows
of any articles or books that could be useful to me; or have any thoughts
on the subject, i would be much obliged.
metro-roland dini

My socialist namesake writes:
>I hope Eva Balogh will be kind> enough to verify this, as she has the resources...> she'll have the opennes and curiosity to do this,> as we are informed from an admirer of hers, that> she is some sort of socialist liberal - a> great surprise for some of us... :=))))
I must say it is a great surprise to myself as well! I thought that I was a
conservative liberal with a fervent belief in that *wretched* capitalism. But
Mr. Pellionisz knows it better. I believed in "real" socialism when I was
twenty. But I have grown up since--today I can't even admire my namesake's
fervent socialist beliefs. However, not only I but also Mr. Hidas, who had
published several works on the Hungarian revolution, could give all of us a
little history lesson.
Eva Balogh

Mr. Fencsik, in his second wave of relentless (and easily predicted!)
"ad hominem" attacks against me, instead of Dr. Endrey's idea,
entertains us with his apocalyptic fabrication OF HIS VISION FOR THE
FUTURE. He nightmares about some "Papa Doc" who shall bring down
Hungary to Central American (definitely Third World) level.
Indeed, declassing a hereto reasonably decent European culture,
society and economy, that HUNGARY HAS BEEN for the last thousand
years, to the "pariah status" that becoming a "Third World Country"
represents, is the most visceral fear of Hungarians as a nation.
Problem is, that it is not some FUTURE "Papa Doc" who will have
accomplished this dreadful scenario. It is exactly the PRESENT course,
planned out by IMF and executed by their liberal cohorts inside and
outside Hungary, which COURSE IS IN THE MIDDLE OF TURNING A
EUROPEAN HUNGARY INTO THE PRESENT STANDING (TIPIFIED BY
MEXICO) AND RAPIDLY APPROACHING THE ULTIMATE GOAL OF
AFRICAN BURUNDI.
For those of you in the "Hungary" list, who missed some "details" and
may feel that it would be an exaggeration that Hungary aims at East-
African Burundi as a model, I got some sad news for you. IT HAS
ALREADY HAPPENED. Mr. Bokros, Minister of Finance, along with Mr.
Suranyi, Chief of Hungarian National Bank, are the leading officers to
administer the IMF "shock therapy" to Hungary. Mr. Bokros a few
months ago was rather explicit, and stated in public, when Hungarian
Universities desperately protested the severe curtailment of
Hungary's once famed system of higher education: "There are no
Universities in BURUNDI either, and they are doing just fine!"
It is now obvious, that his "cruel joke" was not in fact a joke at all.
Hungary is sinking with ever accelerating speed (presently at the
rate of $10 million/day) to Third World level conditions. Abortion
skyrockets, suicide breaks world records, life expectancy nosedives.
Hospitals, universities, public service wind down and close out. R&D
is sold down the river for peanuts. Agriculture, industry are driven
into the ground. Society is collapsing, crime, prostitution, corruption
and foreign maffia are rampant and soon (if not already) spin out of
control. On top of it, national debt has more than doubled since
Hungary is "free" (what a sordid joke would be even to utter this
word!).
For those of you who'd like to pretend that this is MY analysis, let me
just quote Prof. F. Sweet, who just a few days ago referred to MIT
Professor Chomsky, who actually foretold all this, years ago.
Therefore, in accepting your kind reply, I yield priority to Prof.
Chomsky (MIT), Prof. Jeffry Sachs (Harvard), Prof. Sweet (Univ. St.
Louis), Dr. Endrey (Her Majesty's Counsel) and will take the fifth seat
(at best) after this four gentlemen.
----Chomsky----Chomsky--------Chomsky--------Chomsky----
WHAT UNCLE SAM REALLY WANTS
1992 by Odonian Press, Berkeley CA. Single copies of it can be
purchased for US$5 + US$2 per ORDER < not per book>, from:
Odonian Press, Box 7776, Berkeley CA 94707 --- quantity discounts
are available. [bibliography & citation is courtesy of Prof. Sweet]
pp. 69-72
THE PROSPECTS FOR EASTERN EUROPE
....the prospects are pretty dim for Eastern Europe. The West
has a plan for it ---- they want to turn large parts of it into a new,
easily exploitable part of the Third World.
There used to be a sort of colonial relationship between Western
and Eastern Europe; in fact. the Russians blocking of that
relationship was one of the reasons for the Cold War. Now it is
being reestablished and there is a serious conflict over who is going
to win the race for robbery and exploitation. Is it going to be
German-led Western Europe (currently in the lead) or Japan
(waiting in the wings to see how good the profits look) or the
United States ( trying to get into the act) ?
There are a lot of resources to be taken, and lots of cheap labor
for assembly plants. But first we have to impose the capitalist
model on them. We do not accept it for ourselves ---- but for the
Third World, we insist on it. That is the IMF system. If we can get
them to accept that, they will be very easily exploitable, and will
move toward their new role as a kind of Brazil or Mexico.
----End of Chomsky--------End of Chomsky--------End of Chomsky--
Ladies and gentlemen: IT IS ALREADY ESTABLISHED THAT THE IMF
AND LOCAL COHORTS DECLASSED HUNGARY INTO A THIRD WORLD
COUNTRY.
Since this disaster of historic proportions will never go without
appropriately identifying "who are to blame" for the death of
European Hungary and her ugly rebirth as a Third World contry, and
will certainly not go without severely punishing those who
committed these capital crimes against her, Mr. Fencsik & comp. are
rushing to frame those with the most impeccable alibi. They would
love to smear those who not only TOLD YOU SO the mortal dangers of
"IMF Bankloan-Slavery" IN TIME, but who are totally exempt from
the entire criminal process since (with precise foresight!) spent the
entire period of 20 years halfway around the Globe. The fencsix are
desperate to accomplish (but they never will!) that those who
remained squeeky clean from the historic disaster should also be
"dragged down into the dirt" such that "Burundization of Hungary"
could be framed as a "collective crime" (with nobody to punish).
No Sir! If you really want to know who the Burundistas AT PRESENT
are, look at one another in Hungary and ask yourselves some hard
questions. "Either we are free and therefore those who are
committing this are in Hungary" (since Hungary would not even let a
bona fide Hungarian citizen vote if he/she is not physically in the
country!) or "Perhaps Hungary is not really free at all, Hungarians
are just slaves who used to be oppressed by the Tanks, and now are
oppressed by the Banks". If the latter is true, the IMF is to blame,
together with their well-identifiable internal/external cohorts! "
We know exactly who the professional Burundistas are. Those who
cut the deals with the IMF (and pocketed the kickback), with no
mandate from YOU during communisms (as they never lawfully
represented the Hungarian nation), and those in "free" Hungary with
no mandate from YOU (even if you voted socialist MSZP, since IMF
policies are enforced on them by the minor partner in the coalition) .
It is only the SZDSZ among the parties which pushes as its party line
to subserve IMF. Unless they back off from their corner in the 24th
hour, they would be the ones who in Hungary will (to sing with the
Beatles) "carry that weight, carry that weight, A LONG TIME!"

wrote:
: ...since IMF
: policies are enforced on them by the minor partner in the coalition) .
Do the mists begin to clear? Do we by this crap of misdirection find direction
out? Do the minor partners serve, as they say, to provide plausible
deniability
to the MSzP?
--Greg
Your bait of falsehood takes this carp of truth:
And thus do we of wisdom and of reach,
With windlasses and with assays of bias,
By indirections find directions out:
(Hamlet Act II scene I)