Wiki Leaks has posted a full version and a shorter version of a military operation in Iraq. They call it Â Collateral Murder.

I am angry at these bleeding hearts who think that war is where everyone fights fair and plays fair. Wiki Leaks proclaims they have scientifically analyzed this video and declare that murder was committed. I watched the full version which is 39 minutes long, beginning with several men walking along carrying AK47s, and several others who are not armed, gathering together before they enter a building. It ends with the US Military finally blowing up the building.

I am proud to be an American, and proud of how our boys reacted to this clear and present danger. Perhaps there was a bit of callousness in the radio transmission, but after so many years of this kind of war, I have no problem with their judgment. What they said was true.Once the weapons are spotted, permission is asked to engage, meaning to fire upon those with weapons. In a war zone, any person carrying a weapon, and is not a military friendly, is up to no good. The Rules of Engagement were followed to the T, every i is dotted and every t is crossed.

Common sense dictates that you do not bring your children toward a military engagement where shooting is happening, you would run the other way. War has been going on in Iraq for a very long time and people there know that the US military is not playing games. Our boys have suffered more from sniper fire, roadside bombs, car bombs, suicide bombers and the like. These fanatics are not playing games either as this jihad bears witness. Â They did right to not hold back from engaging those with weapons who regularly hide behind women and children.

They also did right by evacuating the little girl and getting her hospital care as soon as possible. They did right when they shot those who were trying to pick up the wounded because, if you watch closely, you see two from the van shooting missiles at the helicopter above. You can’t hear the hand-to-hand combat, or see it, but you hear it reported from the troops on the ground. War is nasty and there are casualties. Iraqis should know by now, if there are military personnel around and there is someone armed close by, they need to run the other way…Â unless, of course, they are up to no good as well.

I’ll let you judge for yourself, but from what I observed, our boys were fired upon and met that fire with considerable patience. It was a military operation, carried out with military precision. I find no fault here, and I definitely am considerably ticked that anyone has theÂ effronteryÂ to call it murder.

Your arguement of listening to their conversation to prove that they are shooting missiles is clearly wrong and fallacious! Just use your eyes to freaking see.. are u blind? they were a van that came back trying to rescue any casualty that is left. Like what u say if they meant to attack ppl, will they bring their kids along??
I again cant help but scorn not only at your inability to see but your inability to comprehend the situation. u call those huge lens camera RPG? If they intended to attack the choppers will they be huddling around each other to gather warmth? Wouldnt they be hiding inside buildings or somewhere less conspicuous?
Further more those helis are Apaches that are kilometers away from the “hot zone” where cowards stay behind the weapon system and shoot like video games. Judging from the way the men reacted they probably did not even intend to cause anyharm.
why not put your insensitive unthinking brain into anyone of the journalist or the people there? Who turn it into a warzone in the first place.
You need to wake up from your sinking american dream

chatstu said,

in April 6th, 2010 at 2:52 pm

Thanks Gina, from a proud American. The other 2 posters must be jealous Iranians.

simmy said,

in April 6th, 2010 at 3:15 pm

The video does not show any shots being fired towards any Americans.

If an American were to stand on a street outside his house in America with a gun would you kill every American on that street? In the civilized country I am from (the UK) that would be seen as murdering innocent people.

The Iraqi people should have been ordered to disperse or disarm before being shot without warning.

If you watch the long version carefully, you will see gun flashes from behind the van. There is one other place in the video where ground to air shots are fired.

Matt said,

in April 6th, 2010 at 3:59 pm

“The Rules of Engagement were followed to the T, every i is dotted and every t is crossed”

Level 5: Assaultive (Lethal Force). The subject usually has a weapon and will either kill or injure someone if he/she is not stopped immediately and brought under control. The subject must be controlled by the use of deadly force with or without a firearm.

Can you point out where that applies to the people in the van? They had no weapons.

If you watch closely, you will see gun fire flashing, at least 2 flashes, from the front, passenger door of the van, toward the helicopter.
gb

Teef said,

in April 6th, 2010 at 9:32 pm

I’d like to know what I was dotted or T crossed when they ran over a body with a Bradley tank?

Imagine if the tables were turned and it was the Iraqis in the Apaches, killing American children, killing American people coming to the aid of people they know did no wrong, running over American bodies.

If you can do all that and still see nothing wrong with what happened in this instance then I’m afraid your old patriotism has gotten in the way of your moral compass and I honestly feel sorry for you.

Andrew said,

in April 6th, 2010 at 10:37 pm

>> Matt said, in April 6th, 2010 at 3:59 pm

“Level 5: Assaultive (Lethal Force). The subject usually has a weapon and will either kill or injure someone if he/she is not stopped immediately and brought under control. The subject must be controlled by the use of deadly force with or without a firearm.”

Those are police rules of deadly force. The law of land warfare is a very, very different animal.

>> simmy said, in April 6th, 2010 at 3:15 pm
“The video does not show any shots being fired towards any Americans.

“If an American were to stand on a street outside his house in America with a gun would you kill every American on that street? In the civilized country I am from (the UK) that would be seen as murdering innocent people.”

Promptly destroying a building from which one has taken enemy fire, even a protected place such as a school, mosque or hospital, is a completely accepted practice within the Laws of War. Of course this would be completely unacceptable in police operations.

Anyone near a crew-served weapon or system is fair game because they could bring it into action. Any combatant who runs away is fair game too. A combatant can only gain protection by surrendering or becoming hors de combat (so gravely wounded that they are helpless to harm anyone else.)

If he’d had an RPG instead of a camera, that could have been a truckload of dead Americans. Someone else with him DID have that RPG, and that made the whole party combatants, players in the game that costs your life to lose.

me said,

in April 7th, 2010 at 4:14 am

Blind patriotism is scary and your article is a perfect example of that. They behaved like crazed maniacs. Their comments were depraved and disgusting. They fired on, and killed innocent people and children. Not one of them even got a warning. And they couldn’t even tell the difference between a camera and a weapon. Pathetic.

This is a classic example of how people will see what they want to see, rather than Truth.

Teef, if you had listened, you would have heard them retract the statement that it actually was a dead body they ran over. It was not.

Only monsters and “crazed maniacs” hide behind children in wartime. The North Vietnamese did it and the jihadists do it. They strap bombs on kids, they send women into crowds with bombs strapped around them.

The Americans did what had to be done. It is because these soldiers stand between us and the bad guys that horrible things like happened here do not happen worldwide.

Men with weapons in a war zone are not innocent bystanders or lookie-lous. Men who hide behind children are NOT innocent.

The sad thing is, you can deride them all you like and they will fight to the death for your right to do so.

zaxtervid said,

in April 7th, 2010 at 10:05 am

It’s mechanized murder, shooting indiscriminately from helicopters. I don’t blame the soldiers, I blame the people who sent them there, as well as the people who didn’t train them properly.

I still want to know why we are in Iraq. Still no WMDs. What was the reason? Can we please have the real reason now, so that these innocent peoples’ deaths can have some sort of purpose?! So that the soldiers who I support can have an actual cause?

sadtruth said,

in April 7th, 2010 at 11:58 am

Whoever tries to see nothing wrong with this is as rotten as the monsters who keep funding this absurd war. I am sick of hearing that they’re defending our freedom. What did Iraq do to threaten our freedom in the first place?

The same incompetent government that decided to start this senseless (and endless) armed conflict is the same bunch of traitors who keep screwing us up by giving our money away to their bank buddies.

I feel sorry for those who can’t see beyond what the media tells them.

shafiq said,

in April 7th, 2010 at 1:24 pm

This post just shows how blind some people have become to murder. Patriotism really is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

There weren’t any gunshots whatsoever and several innocent people were killed.

It is perfectly legal to carry an AK-47 in Iraq – it’s needed for self-defence. Are you telling me that a soldier in the world’s most powerful army can not tell the difference between a camera and a rocket launcher?

DANNY POTTER said,

in April 7th, 2010 at 4:26 pm

OK i have one question that i think you might be able to help me with,

but first some exposition:
if you are a journalist in a war zone (much like the ones in the video) would you not be very aware of the combat/war situation in the area and if it is a hostile, as we are led to believe, would you not want to protect yourselves from (just for arguments sake) the “insurgents”. so rather than carry around a weapon yourself (cause how are you supposed to watch your own back while documenting the war for the world) you have a armed escort follow you around to make sure you are safe (cause come on this is war right) OK so now that we have established that it is just common sense (and not “terrorism”) to be followed around by someone with a weapon if you are a photo journalist in a war i may ask my question.

HAVE THESE SOLDIERS NEVER SEEN ANY PHOTO JOURNALISTS DURING THEIR TIME IN COMBAT?
cause i am fairly certain that this was not the first time journalists cared about their own protection

if you really love your army you should hold them to higher standards

thank you for your time,
Danny R Potter

simmy said,

in April 7th, 2010 at 7:26 pm

I’m not seeing what I want to see. I’d like to see some sort of justification for the killing that video shows. I’ve watched it again and can’t see any reason the people in that van had to be killed. I couldn’t see any indication that shots were fired from it, it’s definitely not clear.

From the American communications you hear those helicopter gunners were desperate to engage the van as soon as they saw it, why do they feel the need to kill people? A human being shouldn’t enjoy killing others. They shouldn’t want to kill unless it’s necessary as a last resort to protect themselves or others.

John Doe said,

in April 7th, 2010 at 7:46 pm

Hail to Mr. Bush. Hitler would be proud of him.

Pissed Canuck said,

in April 7th, 2010 at 10:01 pm

Just the opinion of another “bleeding heart” Ie. thinking, feeling human being, but this is the most inhuman thing I have ever seen.
There are some profoundly evil men behind all of this and I hope to hell that there is a special place in hell just for them.
As far as the pullers of the triggers goes…they are little more than desensitized puppets. And just think, they get to come home to heroes’ welcomes…the same people who can puts bullets in children’s bellies and say “oh well” will soon be walking among you. Scary!
3,000 deaths at the WTC translates to 100,000 Iraqi deaths. I wonder how many of those affected will embrace terrorism now? Perpetual enemies in a perpetual war…just what the American Military Industrial complex wants!

Romeo said,

in April 8th, 2010 at 5:52 am

Is it really a war? I think it’s more business.

Everybody knows that in Iraq and Afghanistan is plenty of oil. But to start war with another country because they have something anyone else doesn’t have… Politically isn’t very good. But wait a minute… Somebody attacked our building and that’s good reason for that, isn’t it??? But did they really?
Ok, twins (WTC) have fallen. I thought it was constructed to withstand earthquakes, fires and other disasters. I would blaim constructors if they claim that two airplanes made something more strong than earthquake, fire or hurricane can… But if there were some bombs strategically placed and blasted in correct order in the building just waiting for some planes to crash into it so it would look like an attack of terrorists. What could constructors possibly do to withstand that? Question is: “Who could place bombs in there and do it so precisely?” Well, who could? I thing it’s impossible to bring so much explosives in guarded building without observation of anyone. Unless it is done by someone who has enough privileges to do it. For example government or someone with governments permission.
But if it was U.S. government… that is immoral. Killing own innocent people for oil that brings billions dollars to their own pockets is not moral at all. But was it moral what they did in Baghdad? No, I thing it wasn’t. But call it war and it’s alright for someone…
By the way, where are evidences for who is responsible for that what happened to twins??? May I ask somebody to tell me. Did anyone survived that airplane crash or what???

DANNY POTTER said,

in April 8th, 2010 at 1:27 pm

the WTC towers were scheduled for serious renovations on Dec. 2000 the people that were hired to do the constructions were stationed inside the first tower. the security for the twin towers was run by a company that had Gorge W Bush’s brother as the head of it. there are the answers as to how they were able to get demolition bombs inside the towers. but hey don’t take my word for it all i have done was connect dots that were already there look it up yourself thats the only way the truth will be discovered cause no news group will tell you the truth even if they find it out so waiting for them is pointless.

i´d like to know if the iraqs invade your country and kill your people like americans are doing. What would you do? fight back or die like a dog, just like on “collateral murder”. please make a favor: find another excuse for this MURDER! i´m proud to not be american!

Romeo said,

in April 9th, 2010 at 7:29 am

Danny, I think you got the point… But I really don’t need to look for truth. Everybody important on this world knows what’s going on. But everybody who can do anything with it, probably has something else to do with it.

But anyway, thanks for these dots that you marked. I think there’s nothing else that needs to be asked.

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