Getting to the heart of travel healthcare.

A podcast hosted by Sunny & Matt

Podcast Transcript

An Inside Look Into Nursing Leadership

April 29, 2020

TRANSCRIPT

Voice Over: Welcome to CARDIUM from Aureus Medical, the podcast that gets to the heart of travel healthcare and asks what's your why? With each episode, we explore the topics and issues that impact healthcare professionals in the fields of nursing and allied health. Now, here are your hosts, Sunny and Matt.

Matt: Welcome to another episode of CARDIUM. If you're a subscriber, welcome back to the family. Thank you for being part of our CARDIUM family. If you're a new listener, thanks for stopping by. We hope you enjoy this podcast, and we would love for you to subscribe so you can enjoy our future podcasts. Joining me always is Sunny.

Matt: Hi, Sunny.

Sunny: Hi.

Matt: How are you today?

Sunny: I am doing great. Thank you.

Matt: Good. Good. Our topic today is a different one than that we have explored before, so this will be... This would be interesting. A lot of good questions, I think, we've got prepared for our guests. We've got a couple of them, but, in particular, this topic is something that is not widely known in the travel world, but super, super important.

Sunny: Yeah, because we don't hear a lot about leadership in the travel world.

Matt: We do not, and I don't think that... It's not thought of immediately, top of mind, especially with the contract traveler world. The clinicians out there don't go immediately to leadership, unless you're in that business, but, wow, what a critical role and a growing field of contract travel leadership positions and leadership positions in general in hospitals.

Sunny: Yes, exactly, and maybe we'll also talk about how you can set yourself up to grow into becoming a leader. That would also be a good topic, too.

Matt: Yeah, I think we'll probably hit on that, hit that question today with our guests, and I think it's going to be super important that this podcast that we talk to a lot of the opportunities that are there, how you get into it, why it's important, and how big the field is growing and expanding and what the next few years look like, so I think we're going to hit on all that today, so I'm excited about it. I say that about all of our podcasts because I think we have a lot of good stuff, but this is going to be a good one.

Sunny: I know, but we're pretty awesome, so that's why we always have good podcasts.

Matt: Yeah, I think we should bring our guests on board. What do you think?

Sunny: I think so.

Matt: Go for it.

Sunny: All right, we'll be talking with Darren Parks and Chelsea Dreiling. Welcome.

Chelsea: Thank you.

Darren: Hi. Good morning.

Sunny: Good morning, so Darren Parks is a registered nurse who has practiced for over 22 years. For the past 13, he's focused primarily on nursing leadership and currently travels as an interim leader. The majority of his clinical experience as an RN is rooted in adult critical care, though he's worked in several other specialties throughout his career. He spent the first 17 years in an Omaha, Nebraska, level one trauma center and in the VA System. As an interim leader, he's worked in large community hospitals, small critical access hospitals, federal facilities and as a consultant. Healthcare is Darren's second career. He farmed for several years before transitioning into healthcare full time. He and his wife reside in Council Bluffs, Iowa, and have two children in college. He likes to read, do carpentry work and relax on their small acreage. He follows the Oklahoma Sooners. Boomers. He made me say that.

Sunny: Welcome, Darren.

Darren: Thank you, Sunny.

Sunny: You're welcome.

Matt: Darren, you're not... You're so not busy at all with all those things. Also joining us today is Chelsea Dreiling. Chelsea leads the leadership branch of Aureus Medical's nursing division. She joined the healthcare staffing agency in 2013 and began her career as a recruiter before transitioning to the nursing leadership shortly thereafter. Chelsea has a passion for helping others. She's an active mentor within the Aureus nursing division and also with the company's mental health awareness team, an employee-organized group that organizes and supports activities related to mental health awareness. Chelsea enjoys cooking, traveling, connecting with friends and spending time with her husband and two children. As a family, they are avid sports enthusiasts, so welcome aboard, Chels.

Chelsea: Thank you. Go, Chiefs.

Matt: Oh, boy.

Sunny: We've got a football theme. Maybe that's what we should be talking about.

Matt: Who knows how this conversation is going to go. I don't know if we could have had two better experts when it comes to leadership for our topics today, so we're excited to have your guys' insight to the world of leadership as we mentioned in our intro, really understanding the nuances of leadership, and I think that... I think you guys will be able to lend a lot of information to Sunny and I and our audience.

Sunny: Yeah. Yeah. Darren, let's start with you. We really want to talk about your personal journey into healthcare as a whole and into leadership. Can you walk us through that?

Darren: Oh, so my personal journey in healthcare, I've been involved in some form of healthcare for 30-plus years. Growing up in a small town in Iowa, I worked in EMS settings. Everybody relied upon local volunteers provide that first line EMS level of healthcare services, fire protection, things like that, and, through all that, I was still self-employed as a farmer. Things changed within that line of work, and I made the decision to do something differently. I tried nursing school. My mother-in-law talked me into that, said, "Yeah, you can do this," so I tried it, got into it and liked it, kept going with it and moved into the acute care hospital setting.

Darren: Once I got into that, I knew where I wanted to go clinically. I didn't have a really strong desire to go into leadership at that point, but, several years into it, a house supervisor position opened in the trauma center, and I said, "I think that's something I can do," and it also gave me an opportunity to expand my skillset even further, so I interviewed for the position, was awarded the position and, at that point, I got to do a mix of both clinical and administrative work. From there, then I decided, as I was moving through this position and learning different aspects of the job, it's like I could see myself doing unit management or director-level type work at some point in my future.

Darren: At that point, I went back for my bachelor's degree. I was working through that, and a unit management position had opened up, so, once again interviewed, was awarded the job and then spent the first year of leadership really trying to figure out what it was all about, how it works. A lot of it was self-taught. I did have some really good mentors, but, still, the day-to-day grind of everything that goes with it was self-taught. I spent a lot of 12, 16-hour days in that first year. Then I realized the work is always going to be there, get what needs to be done today done and worry about tomorrow, tomorrow, and then, moving on from all that, I bounced through the interim leadership roles now for the last five years, and I think maybe I finally found my real niche in nursing.

Darren: Within the last five years, I truly enjoy the interim aspect of things where an organization identifies a need or a problem that they have and filling that role. I get asked to come in, help them find either the next person, work through whatever their current issues are, help them find some solutions and build a foundation for my successor who's coming in behind me.

Sunny: That's awesome, and I think that something that, for our listening audience who is interested in following that nurse leadership track, maybe talk a little bit about what skillset. You talked a little bit about making that move into it and going into school. It's not just about just being a nurse and understanding the patient care. There's a business side to that. You've got that nurse-to-patient ratio, yes, beds and heads [inaudible 00:08:36]. There's that business side of things. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Darren: Right, so healthcare is a business. We're there to provide a service. It's a customer service industry basically. Patients come. They have an issue. We try to fix it, but we also have to do that within a certain cost as well. We have to figure out how we're going to do this the most efficiently so that the patient gets what they receive, but then the organization also receives the payment for the services they've provided, and, at the unit level, unit level manager, my piece in all that comes into the labor cost, the staffing piece of things, ensuring that supply costs are kept within a certain budget. Each unit typically has a budget that's established on an annual basis, and you have to work-

Sunny: Your budgeted FTEs?

Darren: Yeah, budgeted FTEs, budgeted for supplies, medications, all these different things, and you have to work within that. There are times when you're going to go outside, and you have to be prepared to justify why that's occurred. That's always a conversation that you run into with the CFOs of the world. They want to know what happened with that extra $200,000 that was set aside. You have to be able to explain that so... and a lot of times that turns into... it's a labor cost usually when it's... when you're talking that type of a figure, but, yeah, I mean, every day, I'm looking at staffing, and I have to adjust my staffing based upon the number of patients I have, the acuity of patients that are on the floor that I'm managing at that time, and you have to take all those things into account.

Darren: Sometimes, those aren't popular decisions with nurses. I remember being that staff nurse and being on that side of it and not necessarily being happy with the way staffing was being done, but, on the flipside and where I'm working today, I understand why it is what it is. I do think that healthcare has some opportunities as a whole to make that match a little better for both sides. We just haven't quite figured that out yet.

Matt: Yeah, it's interesting to have to wear the multiple hats, and, your experience in 22 years as a nurse, obviously, the patient's side of it and really having the satisfaction of knowing that you're helping people, that's got to be a satisfying thing, but leadership has so much of a different type of challenge, the business side of it, as you had mentioned, really understanding the macro effect of your unit, and interim even has an additional layer because you are a guest, and, that, that is fleeting, but it does not lessen the responsibility that you have managing that unit.

Matt: I think, Darren, that's super interesting. If you had to put your finger on it like the... of what you're doing now, what is the most appealing thing that you do that says, "I really love this. I love being a nurse, but I love being in the leadership as a nurse?" What is the thing?

Darren: I think, for me, the thing that really has driven me for the last five years through all of this is the opportunity for me to share some of the stuff that I've learned over the years that I've been working at bedside, as well as in management roles, but I also get an opportunity to learn something in each organization that I go to, so, all those things, I can add that to my toolkit. I take it on to the next position with me, and I can pull up things, "Hey, this has worked before," or, "Hey, we've tried this and it was... It didn't work very well at all." That's what I enjoy. I think about the interim leadership positions now as it's a give-and-take. I get to offer a few things. I get to learn a few things.

Matt: Right, and I think, being in the leadership position the past five years, you've... and interim, you've got a great sample size there and things that may be even you could offer the perm staff at a hospital, even up to the CFO level, really insight that they might not themselves have, and I think that that's one of the most intriguing things for people looking to go into some type of travel leadership positions is that you're going to expand your resume, not only your resume, but your wealth of knowledge that you bring to the position. You can offer so much more than just being a body in front of bodies at a hospital. There's a lot of insight that you can offer the other leaders within that facility, so what a great opportunity.

Sunny: I'm going to jump to Chelsea here. Your journey into leadership and managing the leadership division, why don't you walk us through that?

Chelsea: Sure. Good morning. Thanks again for having me here. As Matt had mentioned earlier, I started my career with Aureus almost now seven years ago. I had moved here from Kansas City for my husband's job and found my way into healthcare recruiting, and, with the history major, that made perfect sense, but my true passion is people, so I think I found the right career. I started out as a nursing recruiter and then, about eight months into my tenure, I was approached about start... helping start the nursing leadership branch, and, initially, it was focused towards permanent placement of nursing supervisors, managers and directors on a national basis. However, we did start to see this shift in interim leadership. We do continue to staff both, but we've really seen the interim leadership take off especially the last three to four years, I'd say, and the industry as a whole has just boomed.

Sunny: Any advice for those listeners looking to get into travel leadership or something that Darren is doing, and both of you can hop in here, but what's your advice, Chelsea?

Chelsea: Sure. I think it's got to be the right fit for you in your life. We have a few different type of leaders that we have working for us. We have that eager person who just wants to get their feet wet in the leadership. My advice to that person may be getting a little bit more experience because, just like a traveler, you're not getting more than a day or so of orientation. I mean, Darren, I don't know how much orientation you've been working for us, but you're expected to jump right in, right?

Darren: Yeah, whether you're a staff nurse filling an ICU position or a pediatric job or a nurse leader stepping into the role, you're expected to walk in and go to work. There's not a lot of time spent on orientation training, things like that. They want you up and running day one or two.

Chelsea: Absolutely, so I think being able to be confident in your skills and your success, being flexible because, the interim leadership world, it's a small world, and if you think about the hospital as a whole, there's only that one open, there's that one vacancy, so, oftentimes, especially right now, we're finding more candidates than we are jobs, so, being flexible and where you're willing to go and what hat you're going to wear.

Chelsea: For some people, they want that specific title, but, at the same time, you may need to go into a hospital as a manager, but you may have been a director before, so, again, being comfortable in your own skin to say, "I don't need that title. I'm going in to help and provide a service to the hospital and the staff that's there," so I think flexibility, having confidence and just being a good person, somebody who's truly interested in going in and helping and knowing that they're there to help that hospital.

Matt: Yeah, I think that's really important for our listeners to understand that. I think it's different to not just only have the skills, but you have to have the right mindset.

Chelsea: You do.

Matt: I think that, when we talk, we're fortunate because of Darren's experience. As far as mindset, Darren, can you give us an insight to your leadership philosophy? Because we understand your clinical philosophy, obviously, you're there, patient care is number one for you, but as a leader, when you have to wear that hat, what is your overall leadership philosophy?

Darren: I mean, I'm not sure what my philosophy would be titled per se, but, one thing, I've always had a great amount of respect for leaders who can work side by side with their staff versus those who sit behind a desk and maybe dictate or tell people how to do what needs to be done. I've always prided myself on the ability to work side by side with my staff. Nobody has ever worked for me. They work with me.

Matt: Sure.

Darren: That's something I've always stressed, and you have to be able to go and.... As an interim leader, you really have to be able to go in and establish a sense of trust with the group of staff you're working with quickly, and I think the best way to do that is to go out beyond the floor, beyond the unit. Whatever the role is that you're filling, interact with people. Get to know them and follow through with what you say you're going to do. That's a huge, huge piece when it comes to leadership. If you say you're going to do something, make sure that you follow through with it.

Matt: Yeah, I think that's solid, and I think that's respectful, too, and respectable that, when you're willing to get right in there in the trenches with your folks, I mean, people, I think people appreciate that especially when you've got... that's... you've got zero time to build a reputation. They've got to see you from day one with them.

Darren: Right. If you are not willing to go out and work with the staff side by side, it leaves a bad impression on them right from the start, and I think it's going to be really tough in an interim leadership position to establish yourself and be successful in that role. You got to walk the walk and talk the talk.

Sunny: That's your opportunity to build that initial rapport with your team, I would imagine, that you're getting your hands dirty, and, with that, with it being an interim leader, what would you say are the challenges and rewards have been?

Darren: The challenges are always, initially, that first day or two, you're just trying to figure out, 'Is that's still Sally or is it Susan?" Getting the names down is a tough one right from the start, but another challenge is finding the resources. At least from a leadership role, oftentimes, I get placed in a position where, "Who do I call for this?" or trying to figure out who your resources are, so you have to identify that pretty quickly in... so in order to get up and running and do what you need to be doing for them. That's one of the challenges. The rewards' side of things, I've got to expand my professional network immensely in the last five years. I still-

Matt: Oh, I'm sure.

Darren: I still keep in touch with people from all these different assignments, develop some great relationships, friendships. Just this last summer, I had the opportunity to stand up in one of my friend's weddings, a fellow that I had met two, three years ago in one of the travel assignments. We still keep in touch. He asked me to come back...

Chelsea: That's amazing.

Darren: ... and be a part of his wedding.

Matt: That's awesome.

Darren: I was pretty, pretty touched by that. That was cool that he asked me to do that so.

Matt: Yeah, I'd imagine that you're able even to call on those folks when you run into an assignment where maybe you might need some resources and you don't have the bat phone to pick up at the hospital, and you might have to call on some of your friends of former assignments and say, "How would you handle this?" I mean, great resources all over the country.

Darren: Yeah, I do that fairly often where I reach out, text people, give people a phone call and say, "Yeah, this is what I'm up against. What do you think? This is what I think. What's your thoughts on it?" so there's a lot of that that goes on. Other rewards that go with it, I like to teach. I've always liked to teach clinically. Now, in leadership, one of the things that I've been... I guess that's been fortunate for me in these interim roles is that my successor has always been found while I'm still on the assignment, and each organization that I've been through has given me the opportunity to help orient and onboard that new person. I think that's huge as well.

Darren: In a leadership position, I've never wanted to leave an organization where it's like, "Okay, contract's done," and they've got nothing to fill in behind me. I try to do the work that they ask me to do. I work hard. I want to be successful. I want to make sure the organization is successful, and I just don't want it to drop off at the end of my contract. It's always been nice to be able to hand that off to the next person.

Matt: Yeah, leaving the unit in good hands afterwards, that's a great... that's... That's actually a great point because not a lot of times clinicians don't get to do that. They're done with their three-month assignment, and there might be a traveler coming in right behind them to replace them, and so you don't always get the satisfaction of knowing you left the unit with someone that... a permanent solution, and that's different I think on the leadership role.

Matt: I'm curious, Chelsea, on your side of the world, besides trying to find people that are just like Darren, what is-

Chelsea: He sets the bar pretty high.

Matt: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, no issues there. When you're out there looking for folks that are filling positions like Darren's filling, what perks your ears up and says, "Okay, this, we think this person is going to be a really good fit, do the things that Darren is talking about?" I mean, what's a candidate, ideal candidate looking like from your side of the world?

Chelsea: That's a great question. I'm glad you asked that, so I think Darren hit some spot on point as far as what's important to him as far as being a leader. When we're looking for candidates, we want to hear that same not just work for, but work with, so examples from leaders who have that same mentality because, again, to his point, one of the hardest things, as you're coming in, you might be expected to work on a performance improvement plan or you need to maybe mentor a new leader who's maybe struggling in their role, so really identifying from the client what their specific pain point is and identifying that when talking to our candidate, so those needs may vary, but, again, somebody who is willing to walk the walk and talk the talk.

Chelsea: I think you got to also look from a cultural standpoint what makes sense in putting that person in their next assignment. Are we setting them up for success? If we have a hospital who is expecting somebody who can come in and get their hands dirty, we got to have a candidate who's willing to do that as well. Some hospitals may need a specific education requirements. A lot of our leaders, they need to have their BSN. Some require a master's degree. Some, they need somebody who's willing to pick up a shift and get their hands dirty, so some of those specific characteristics or traits are truly what we... we're looking for, somebody who can obviously have the flexibility and staying there. They're coming there to fill a hole, so they need to be there to do the work and then also know that we, as a company, we're behind them to support them and back them as well, so somebody who's a strong communicator, somebody who can clearly define expectations, they can speak to what the problems are and somebody who's done the job before.

Chelsea: Just like with travel nursing, we're not going to take a director of surgical services and have them go see a labor and delivery unit. That wouldn't make sense, so, somebody who's done the job, that's got to be an important factor as well.

Matt: Yeah, it sounds like the resume has to be pretty thorough...

Chelsea: Absolutely.

Matt: ... but then also, in the conversation with the recruiter, really expanding on what they've done. You can't just go off a piece of paper. You have to be able describe some of your experiences, describing and understanding the challenges, maybe the cultural, the micro-cultural challenges on that unit and how they worked with, as a leader, work through some of those challenges, so you really know ideally where you can get them an assignment and maybe where you shouldn't.

Chelsea: Absolutely.

Matt: We're only ever going to get them there. That might be great labor delivery, but if it's a challenging situation where they're just not going to be a good fit because of that culture, we're not going to put them in that spot.

Chelsea: Yep, if they haven't done the job before, it would not make sense to put them in there so.

Sunny: Yeah, and it goes beyond just about what it is that they can do on a skillset level, but also what they can do on... It's not just about managing, but also about what they can do leading, and so it looks as though you're looking a lot more in-depth. We're going to ask the same question of you, Darren. When you are looking for a leader, when you're hiring travel nurses, and, Chelsea, you can speak to this as well, as you're serving as an interim leader, what are... What do you look for when you're hiring a travel nurse? What are some tips that you can give?

Darren: The people that I'm looking for though is, if I'm looking for travel staff as well as permanent staff, skillsets can be taught. If you don't have a particular skillset for the area in which I'm currently overseeing, I can teach that. I can find the people that can teach that for you. I'm looking more at teamwork. Do you have the ability to adapt and be flexible? Are you willing to do that? I've had a number of people over the last... not so much travel staff, but people looking for full-time jobs that have flat out told me that they will not work weekends, they will not work nights, and I'm like, "This isn't going to work. Our interview is done."

Darren: With travel staff though, flexible, adapting quickly, teamwork, ability to interact with people, and especially with... and the other thing that I look for in travel nurse is like is this your first travel assignment versus are you 10 assignments in? Sometimes, people, travel nursing, I'm finding the last couple of years that I've been doing this, the travel nurses are wanting to stay within an hour or two of home just to put their toe in the water to see if this is really what works for them before they decided to jump out and maybe expand farther out across the country.

Matt: I love your answer on teaching skillsets versus teaching personality. I think that there's a lot of people out there that think that, "I've got an excellent resume, and it shows I've done all these things," but if they're not a good team player, they're not flexible, all the things you mentioned, all the things you learned in kindergarten, that is a real turnoff and it potentially could prevent you from getting a position. I mean, something as that simple, all the skillset in the world may not land you the job that you want just because you're not willing to do the things that's required for in that unit, and I think that that's... that... That will resonate with lots of travelers out there, and it should resonate with a lot of people looking to get into traveling. I mean, if these are the things that from a hiring manager in [inaudible] is going to talk about, that should really resonate with a lot of folks. It does with me.

Sunny: Yeah, and a follow-up to that, Darren, I don't think I've ever asked you this before, when you are interviewing those travel nurses, do you ask them why are you interested in coming here or why did you decide to travel?

Darren: Exactly. I mean, one of my first questions is like, "So what interests you about coming to work for this particular organization? How did you learn about this position?" and then, jumping into, "Is this your first time travel job?" Typically, I see that on their presentation packet when it's submitted to me, but if it is your first time, "Why are you getting into it? What's driving you into the travel business?" and there's various reasons. Money is part of it. Some of is like, "I'm an empty-nester. It's time to get out and see the rest of the world." You get a variety of reasons as to why people are coming into the travel workforce.

Matt: I love the fact that, even in an interim position, you're still looking for those things. You take that responsibility as an interim leader. It does not Matter that you're only there as a guest for a while and you've got to still take that very serious and very much to heart, and that's probably part of your leadership philosophy. I mean, you are a part of the team. You're trying to find the best person for the patients, the best person for the hospital.

Darren: Right. I'm on contract for any particular organization. I'm working for that organization. I'm trying to push their goals, their strategic plan, all those things that that particular organization is trying to do. I've become their employee for that three, six, nine-month period. My job is to promote that and help the organization meet those goals. It varies from place to place, and this may sound a little odd, but you have to be a bit of a chameleon in this line work. You have to be able to adjust, to adapt. Like we had talked about earlier, the goals for this organization may be much different than the next one, but you'd have to be able to step in, figure out what their game plan is and then figure out how to make it happen.

Matt: I love it. It's great advice. It's great advice for travelers. It's great advice for interim leaders such as...

Sunny: Yes, that's amazing.

Matt: ... yourself or people looking to dip their toe in the pool. The next three years are going to be really exciting for all specialties, for all conditions. I think the demand, with the State of the Union with the company when it... or the country when it comes to the Boomers retiring and who is going to replace folks like that, and we've seen the demand all over the place, but leadership needing folks out there like what Darren does is such a critical role and a necessarily role and a role that still, even though you're not always working directly with patients, you have to be there. That unit cannot function without folks like you. Am I right, Darren?

Darren: Yeah. I mean, one of my goals in nursing leadership has always been to work myself out of a job.

Matt: Sure.

Darren: I have never been able to achieve that, but, like we had talked earlier, boots on the ground, you got to be out there side-by-side and, like I said, do what you say you're going to do. Establish that trust. Be out there and show them you can do it, and I also worked really hard to develop a skillset 20-some years ago. I like to keep the rust knocked off of at least.

Sunny: It sounds like you're definitely doing that.

Matt: Good mentality.

Sunny: On behalf of Matt, we thank you both for being here, and before we wrap fully up, what are some takeaways just succinctly that both of you can give to our listeners? Chelsea, start with you, just maybe three nuggets that they can take away on how to set themselves up to become a travel interim leader?

Chelsea: Use your peers. Use those people who you know and you trust, who you get good advice from. In leadership, I think it's very important to have a mentor, so maybe somebody outside of your direct supervisor. I have somebody who I go to. I learn a lot from my peers and management, so have a good resource and a good team of peers who you can go to bounce ideas off of.

Matt: It's great advice.

Sunny: Great. Darren, what about you?

Darren: I think, for people who are currently working in the nursing leadership positions and they want to jump into that world of travel, like we had talked a little bit before, being able to adapt and be flexible I think is huge. You have to be able to establish that rapport and trust with people pretty quickly in order to be successful and then, once you get into the role, aligning yourself with what your organization wants from you. If you come in and try to be, "This is the way I've always done things. This is my style. This is how I want to do things," my job in any travel position is not necessarily to change anything that's going on. My job is to pick up the pieces that are there, put them together and try to get something that's more functional up and running. Nobody ever asked me to come into a position where everything is running smoothly. If that were the case, they wouldn't have a need for me, so my job is to take what they're... take what they have given me to put together, try to build upon that, establish some sort of foundation, framework for my successor that they can build upon.

Matt: Great advice. Great advice.

Sunny: Thank you both for joining us today. We really appreciate it, and, at the end of our podcast, we always like to ask our guests, "What's your why?" It's really the heart of what we do. It's basically the purpose of why you do what you do, so I'm going to start with Chelsea. What's your why?

Chelsea: My why? As I mentioned earlier, people is my passion. I love coming to work every day with the group that I work with and seeing them succeed and making sure I have the tools, to help give them the tools to be successful, so the people I work with every day is what keeps me going.

Sunny: Awesome.

Darren: I think, for me, there's probably a couple of whys. One, I'm a nurse. I got into this line of work because I do truly care about people and I want to see them get well. The other piece that goes with that though is, when it comes to my colleagues, my peers, the staff that I work with, I truly enjoy being able to help teach and, now that I'm a little older, mentoring those folks as well. My time in the workforce is getting shorter. I want to be able to try to help as many people that are growing up through the workforce fill the positions that I've done and I'm currently in and be successful so.

Matt: Those are great whys.

Sunny: Thank you again, and that's really going to wrap up today's podcast, and, for those listening, we love to hear from you, so please drop us a review and let us know what your thoughts are on today's topic or anything else you'd like to discuss, and thanks again to both Chelsea and Darren Parks, and join us at cardiumpodcast.com, and that's a wrap. Thanks, Matt.

Matt: Thanks, Sunny. Bye, bye, everybody.

Sunny: Bye, everyone.

Voice Over: You've been listening to CARDIUM from Aureus Medical with your hosts, Sunny and Matt. We're the podcast that gets to the heart of travel healthcare. To subscribe, access show notes or to learn more, visit cardiumpodcast.com, C-A-R-D-I-U-M, podcast.com or, wherever you're listening, be sure to rate us, review and subscribe. Thanks for tuning in. Until next time.

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