DOn't have a number since 1994- it'd be an estimate any way. NO one could give you an accurate number because 1 manufacturing job might create 3-4 more that it depends upon... like car manufacturing and car parts manufacturing It's not just the 1 job, it causes a domino effect.And the results are what we have today ! Bunch of sheetty-azz WalMart and Fast Food jobs so a few can be ultra wealthy.

Example ; 5 of the top 10 billionaires are Walton family kids... WTF would it hurt WalMart to raise salaries a tad to give their workers a "living wage" - the Waltons can damm well afford it. Would it really hurt them to maybe NOT in the top 10 ?

So here's my 2cents worth. We're at a stage of late post-industrial capitalism where the relationship of labor to the means of production is entirely out of whack. It's not just that "good jobs" are exported, or that wealthy corporations are unwilling to pay a fair wage, although those two things do happen, but that good jobs are just simply scarcer and scarcer, not only in the US but everywhere. Why that is has a lot to do with automation and computer control of manufacturing processes and so on. The jobs that are left are not "middle class jobs." The bulk of them fall into service work of one kind or another. Some of those service jobs really can't pay a whole lot more than current minimum wage because the work place functions on a very marginal rate of return. I'm thinking of places like Macdonald's, which are for the most part franchises owned by local small business folks. And yes, once upon a time those jobs were held by people like me when I was in high school. I earned a solid buck and ten cents an hour at Macdonald's, and because I was living at home and being a kid, I actually saved enough money to pay for my first year of college out of my own pocket. Now, though, those jobs have become the source of income for adults with their own families--and the jobs simply cannot support that model.

I have no clue how we're going to work out of this mess--or even if we'll be able to do so. Something's got to give, and I'm afraid that the thing that's going to give is the middle class. And when that disappears, so will the groundwork for democratic government. The velvet fascism that we're undergoing now pushes in that direction as well. In my dreams what I fantasize might happen is an economic system like what seems to be in place in Star Trek. Except for the Ferengi, no one seems to use money in that universe. People work because they see the dignity of work, not because they have to do so to earn money to survive. I know--an impossible dream.

Been watching the History channel presentation of the Men who built America. I'm fascinated with their history portrayal of Vanderbilt, Rockefeller, Carnegie, Morgan and Ford.

Especially when they give the comparison of money then and it's equivalent not. It's all over the place.

At onetime they have. 12 year old Andy Carnegie working at an early telegraph office doing errands . His wage is $2.50 per week, which they say is equivalent to $1000 now. He had to quit school to help his family expenses, showing him giving his money over to his mother who shakes her head in sadness that he has to give his meager wage to her. meager! If its equivalent to $1000 then that means young Andy is bringing $48,000 yearly.

That's not bad in today's economy. Would support his whole fam.

Other times they give inflation factor of 15 others at 200 and even others at 1000 and 1800 onetime. Don't know how they are figuring it.

I've always seen the inflection factor of about 25 to 30 from mid. 1800's to modern.

Dave

_________________________
There are 10 kinds of people.Those that understand binary and those that don't.

Then, after every business having to lay out more for expenses they will raise their prices for their goods and services so the workers will have to pay more thus reducing their standard of living.

So just to get this right;

Ifraising wages = increases the costs of goods = lower standard of living

then it logically follows thatlowering wages = decreases the costs of goods = raised standard of living

Both of which are demonstrably untrue ...

And the ultimate theoretical conclusion should be that paying workers nothing will equal free goods for all, which is of course ridiculous.

The trick is to pay employees enough to have *disposable* income, upon which our entire economy is based. Simply paying employees barely enough to get along encourages a system that feeds off of a large working class to the benefit of a relatively small owner class.

You mention the small business, many would be exempt if they employee few people -I forget the cut off 20? But increasing MW might NOT affect them.MW LawsPlus many employees are exempted... AND they could get around it by turning all hr employees into salaried ones at the same weekly rate ! So if they're paying $7.25/ hr... salary them at $1200 / month ! Not a good solution, but IF they were truly desperate (make or break) they could take that option.

BUT one problem with a low MW is that it feeds into those that prefer welfare to work... at the current wage, welfare pays better ! Not right, but many feel the big guys play by their own rules, so why shouldn't they? NOT appropriate, but hard to argue against.

IF the Govt didn't set some kind of low bar w MW laws, we'd have sweatshops like Asia !!

No good answers on either side, Dave.

Addendum: according to this STUDY a 10% increase in wages would result in prices rising only 1.6%, but could result in a 2.5% decrease in employment. Like I said NO good answers !!

How about we tie a increase in the MW to every time Congress raises their own salary ! IF we'd done that 25 years ago, the MW would now be $50 / hr !!!

"If it turns out that President Barack Obama can make a deal with the most intransigent, hard-line, unreasonable, totalitarian mullahs in the world but not with Republicans? Maybe he’s not the problem."

Pirate
Old And In The Way
Registered: 02/21/07
Posts: 2971
Loc: Missouri

Originally Posted By: yoyo52

Facts facts facts. Next thing you know we'll have to pay attention to reality.

heck I am so broke I can't even pay attention.while I work for at a union shop the notion that union workers make more money than non union at least at my place is wrong...it is an in house union..last contract we were able to get...are you ready for this...our pay was set at...min. wage....????? how strong is my union ...Min. wagereally??? we did get the company to throw in a couple of paid breaks a day...that we never get to take because of schedule conflicts...got another 2 years on the contract.

This is where Corporate America, the GOP, and many right wingers have most workers snowballed !! . . duped ! . . suckered !! .It'll continue until they get fed up then there'll be strikes and riots !! . . . . and we'll go through the 30s and 40s again !!

Xplain's use of MacNews, AppleCentral and AppleExpo are not affiliated with Apple, Inc. MacTech is a registered trademark of Xplain Corporation. AppleCentral, MacNews, Xplain, "The journal of Apple technology", Apple Expo, Explain It, MacDev, MacDev-1, THINK Reference, NetProfessional, MacTech Central, MacTech Domains, MacForge, and the MacTutorMan are trademarks or service marks of Xplain Corp. Sprocket is a registered trademark of eSprocket Corp. Other trademarks and copyrights appearing in this printing or software remain the property of their respective holders.

All contents are Copyright 1984-2010 by Xplain Corporation. All rights reserved. Theme designed by Icreon.