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"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)

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That's when I quit, when everyone I played with dissapeared into the holocron grind. I had played Everquest previously and I understood what this behavior was and how I didn't want to partake in it: Grinding.

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The early days of the game were fun. But when we found out about how to unlock Jedi and everyone went holocron crazy, the entire game became all about unlocking. Of course that went away with the NGE, but so did so much more along with it.

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Originally posted by djmtott

The early days of the game were fun. But when we found out about how to unlock Jedi and everyone went holocron crazy, the entire game became all about unlocking. Of course that went away with the NGE, but so did so much more along with it.

Heh, it's called throwing the baby out with the bathwater... from the top of a skyscraper.

"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)

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Never understood the obsession with the hologrind, I've always thought the non-Jedi characters of SW were the most insteresting. Had the devs spent more time on getting things like content, vehicles (and maybe space) in the game at launch than on the Jedi system they might not have had some of the retention problems they had.

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I was perfectly fine with my Creature Handler and Bio Engineer. Sure... He wasn't top dog of PvP but he had some of the coolest bio-engineered pets. One of the only games I know where the players crafted the mounts. The looks and abilities of the mount were dependent on the crafter's skill and rare materials (DNA) used. Likely will never see a crafter/mount/pet system like this ever again in MMOs to come.

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Originally posted by djmtott

The early days of the game were fun. But when we found out about how to unlock Jedi and everyone went holocron crazy, the entire game became all about unlocking. Of course that went away with the NGE, but so did so much more along with it.

I never understood why no one else is bothered by the simple fact that they went through an entire year lying to us that there was a way to unlock Jedi which didn't actually come into the game until that hologrind, that was my main problem with them is being lied to with constant interviews stating there was some "secret" way to unlock jedi but they just wouldn't tell anyone how to do it that bothers me way more than the implementation when it finally came.

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Originally posted by Nerf09

That's when I quit, when everyone I played with dissapeared into the holocron grind. I had played Everquest previously and I understood what this behavior was and how I didn't want to partake in it: Grinding.

I could see the writing on the wall long before the CU.

Yep, I quit when the Holocron grind was revealed. What a joke.

Granted, I was never very happy as I stuck with Pistoleer/Smuggler from day one and was pretty much always completely awful and buggy and broken.

The fact that both Bounty Hunters AND Commando's had better pistols and could use pistols better then a profession called "Pistoleer" was just.... terrible.

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Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Nerf09

That's when I quit, when everyone I played with dissapeared into the holocron grind. I had played Everquest previously and I understood what this behavior was and how I didn't want to partake in it: Grinding.

I could see the writing on the wall long before the CU.

Yep, I quit when the Holocron grind was revealed. What a joke.

Granted, I was never very happy as I stuck with Pistoleer/Smuggler from day one and was pretty much always completely awful and buggy and broken.

The fact that both Bounty Hunters AND Commando's had better pistols and could use pistols better then a profession called "Pistoleer" was just.... terrible.

Smuggler was always 100% useless too at that point.

Very funny video. Pistoleer was fun, great defense. My favorite was TKM/Doc funny thing is I never did a buff line like the rest. I was Mainly Doc for the heals, with TKM you could solo dragons and all other elites. I did some grinding holos but got bored with it, I mainly was into farming at this time, I would either farm for crystals at the Fort or farm Holos. Made millions selling both to the Jedi grinders. Haha now I think about it I was farming holos in the beginning and then at the end of the game.

I guess I was lucky, never wasted much time with the holo grind, but I made Jedi early CU because of the few I did grind. I still dont know why they still had a grind CU. It took them years to figure out they where burning out thier playerbase. Buggs aside, the Jedi grind was a terrible mistake that killed the game.

They should have made it a starter CU, since xp grinding with spin groups was so fun and quick the problem might have been solved, in a month everyone would have had Jedi. Then people said then thier would be a problem with too many. I found that Jedi was fun back then but I played my other proffesions just as much as my Jedi. Sure thier would be alot of Jedi but the game still would have had a playerbase of 200k, instead it slowly died a little each year until it wasnt enough of a profit margin for SOE to keep it going.

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Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Nerf09

That's when I quit, when everyone I played with dissapeared into the holocron grind. I had played Everquest previously and I understood what this behavior was and how I didn't want to partake in it: Grinding.

I could see the writing on the wall long before the CU.

Yep, I quit when the Holocron grind was revealed. What a joke.

Granted, I was never very happy as I stuck with Pistoleer/Smuggler from day one and was pretty much always completely awful and buggy and broken.

The fact that both Bounty Hunters AND Commando's had better pistols and could use pistols better then a profession called "Pistoleer" was just.... terrible.

Smuggler was always 100% useless too at that point.

Master ranger was broken too, ranger camps looked pretty but served no useful function like loweirng mind fatiuge while in one, but it was still fun. I was one of the most gimp characters around but my animal hides were the most valuable to sell to other players, also running around with mask scent allowed me to ninja put down thumpers in many spots.

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Originally posted by BullseyeArc1

Very funny video. Pistoleer was fun, great defense. My favorite was TKM/Doc funny thing is I never did a buff line like the rest. I was Mainly Doc for the heals, with TKM you could solo dragons and all other elites. I did some grinding holos but got bored with it, I mainly was into farming at this time, I would either farm for crystals at the Fort or farm Holos. Made millions selling both to the Jedi grinders. Haha now I think about it I was farming holos in the beginning and then at the end of the game.

I guess I was lucky, never wasted much time with the holo grind, but I made Jedi early CU because of the few I did grind. I still dont know why they still had a grind CU. It took them years to figure out they where burning out thier playerbase. Buggs aside, the Jedi grind was a terrible mistake that killed the game.

They should have made it a starter CU, since xp grinding with spin groups was so fun and quick the problem might have been solved, in a month everyone would have had Jedi. Then people said then thier would be a problem with too many. I found that Jedi was fun back then but I played my other proffesions just as much as my Jedi. Sure thier would be alot of Jedi but the game still would have had a playerbase of 200k, instead it slowly died a little each year until it wasnt enough of a profit margin for SOE to keep it going.

The jedi grind also destroyed the economy, most players were grinding up crafting professions just dumping crap on the auction houses everywhere at dirt low prices.

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Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Nerf09

That's when I quit, when everyone I played with dissapeared into the holocron grind. I had played Everquest previously and I understood what this behavior was and how I didn't want to partake in it: Grinding.

I could see the writing on the wall long before the CU.

Yep, I quit when the Holocron grind was revealed. What a joke.

Granted, I was never very happy as I stuck with Pistoleer/Smuggler from day one and was pretty much always completely awful and buggy and broken.

The fact that both Bounty Hunters AND Commando's had better pistols and could use pistols better then a profession called "Pistoleer" was just.... terrible.

Smuggler was always 100% useless too at that point.

If it makes you feel just a tiny bit better, for us Commandos, the Launcher Pistol was useless in the Pre-NGE days. Between the Launcher Pistol, Flamethrower, and all our consumeables: Rocket Launcher, Particle Beam Cannon, Acid Launcher, and various grenades... the only reliable weapon was the Flamethrower.

Everything was horribly inaccurate for them to be consumeables. We even had big-name Weaponsmiths on Ahazi experiment with different build processes to make them useful, but they all failed.

Though in PvP, if the Rocket Launcher DID hit in that 1 / 100 chance, it was spectacular explosion and an insta-kill

"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)

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Originally posted by Nerf09

Originally posted by BullseyeArc1

Very funny video. Pistoleer was fun, great defense. My favorite was TKM/Doc funny thing is I never did a buff line like the rest. I was Mainly Doc for the heals, with TKM you could solo dragons and all other elites. I did some grinding holos but got bored with it, I mainly was into farming at this time, I would either farm for crystals at the Fort or farm Holos. Made millions selling both to the Jedi grinders. Haha now I think about it I was farming holos in the beginning and then at the end of the game.

I guess I was lucky, never wasted much time with the holo grind, but I made Jedi early CU because of the few I did grind. I still dont know why they still had a grind CU. It took them years to figure out they where burning out thier playerbase. Buggs aside, the Jedi grind was a terrible mistake that killed the game.

They should have made it a starter CU, since xp grinding with spin groups was so fun and quick the problem might have been solved, in a month everyone would have had Jedi. Then people said then thier would be a problem with too many. I found that Jedi was fun back then but I played my other proffesions just as much as my Jedi. Sure thier would be alot of Jedi but the game still would have had a playerbase of 200k, instead it slowly died a little each year until it wasnt enough of a profit margin for SOE to keep it going.

The jedi grind also destroyed the economy, most players were grinding up crafting professions just dumping crap on the auction houses everywhere at dirt low prices.

Sure didn't affect me any as an armorsmith/chef at the time. I made a ton during the hologrind, people were always looking for good armor and food. I can not think of any class it affected, a good grinder rarely made a finished product as sub components were where the exp was other than maybe architect with the big gungan heads.

The garbage and poor grinders made finished products but who bought them? No one I know as most bought the good stuff. Sure stuff popped up, but it was half the stats of a crafter who had the good materials.

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Originally posted by raistlinm

Originally posted by djmtott

The early days of the game were fun. But when we found out about how to unlock Jedi and everyone went holocron crazy, the entire game became all about unlocking. Of course that went away with the NGE, but so did so much more along with it.

I never understood why no one else is bothered by the simple fact that they went through an entire year lying to us that there was a way to unlock Jedi which didn't actually come into the game until that hologrind, that was my main problem with them is being lied to with constant interviews stating there was some "secret" way to unlock jedi but they just wouldn't tell anyone how to do it that bothers me way more than the implementation when it finally came.

That is not accurate actually. Some of us unlocked without using one holocron and before the real craze hit actually. Now, granted we were all Pre-9 and some of the rules then didnt work.

We had perma death, - which in case you didnt know sucked ass with all the server issues on Bria - trust me I know I lost a toon dur to me pushing it and getting discoed on freaking Endor fighting spiders which sucked....

So while they didnt say exactly or how some of us did it... also the one hang up, was visibility... WE NEVER knew what that was about until they explained it.

That was pretty much a huge issue for us all back then. We had no idea really that your own friends in a party gave you visibility was of course was a flawed concept.

None the less, I think it was messed up telling anyone anything. I think it should have been capped, I think it should have been random and I think it should have not been so corrupt.

When people got caught exploiting Points for Jedi Rank - is when you knew the system had some issues. Concept was good system was broken.

None the less I am thankful for the early unlock and all the memories and screen shots from it. The Knight trials were fun and so was the PVP once you were made overt 24/7 I did like the idea of risk vs reward but it seems too many people cried like babies and needed to ruin that experience.

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Originally posted by Nerf09

That's when I quit, when everyone I played with dissapeared into the holocron grind. I had played Everquest previously and I understood what this behavior was and how I didn't want to partake in it: Grinding.

I could see the writing on the wall long before the CU.

I had a LOT of fun with my guild PVP raids, RP events and everything that came with it.

then our guildleader went on a hologrind, wasnt seen in any social event with the guild anymore untill he unlocked jedi.

The moment he did that he came back and told the rest the hologrind wasnt really good for the social atmosphere of the guild. right.

After that, everyone went on the infamous hologrind and the first nail in SWG's coffin was created.

"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

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In my opinion, a Jedi should not have been more powerful than a 'force-enabled' regular player. Afterall, many characters from the Starwars series seemed to have the luck and intuition of a jedi without weilding a lightsaber.

The reason why I was ok with the hologrind was because the alternative was to create an elaborate quest system or a ridiculously dreary practice-lightsaber grind. At least the hologrind allowed players to enjoy the various aspects of the game and also ate up some in-game resources to help combat inflation.

I quit around the CU.

I was never impressed by the huge amount of time that developers spent on the force village and the jedi professions. I would have rather seen improvements to the bulk of the game.

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I was remembering a feature of SWG that I haven't seen in another game( it may be I just haven't seen it). You guys remember in pvp how you could incap someone, but you could finish them off beyond the incap (DB)?