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Re: Judge rules Ten Commandments monument must go

you better look again, that is Moses holding the 10 commandments,...Moses is the law giver..... he holds 2 tablets.

Moses is also displayed at the court, with him sitting and both the tablets on each side.

we were not discussing the supreme court and the founders, but that some laws and ldeas of the founders, reflect Christianity.

Originally Posted by ernst barkmann

One official Supreme Court document, he found, cited a letter from sculptor Adolph A. Weinman that said the “pylon” carved with Roman numerals I to X “symbolizes the first ten amendments to the Constitution.” But the letter was anomalous; it didn’t have a number of certifying marks that were typical of others.

So he continued looking and after calling in some assistance in his hunt for evidence, he found a 1975 official U.S. Supreme Court Handbook, prepared under the direction of Mark Cannon, administrative assistant to the chief justice. It said, “Directly above the Bench are two central figures, depicting Majesty of the Law and Power of Government. Between them is a tableau of the Ten Commandments…”

There isnt any religious representation. And you are the one that brought up the founders. ANd the photo that I talked about was the bill of rights. ANd I acknowledged Moses and the tablets representing the ten commandments. But the commandments themselves show up nowhere in or on the entire building.

And most glaringly I provided you with a link to the official supreme court site that explains that the bill of rights and all of the figures in the sculptures. Moses is from the old testament not the new testament, having Moses there doesnt at all represent Christianity at all. What isnt there is anything to do with the Christian faith. Zero reflection of anything Christian shows your willingness to lie and try and rewrite history.

Re: Judge rules Ten Commandments monument must go

I get so sick of this idiotic crap. Nowhere in the Constitution is this judge's decision supported. No law has been passed by Congress that gives preference of one religion over any other in this case. This is nothing more than some dumbass getting all butt-hurt over the Ten being displayed and deciding to sue to get it removed.

You're allowed to put the ten commandments up in your own home and church. If you are not at home or in a church, there is a copy of the ten commandments in the bible which you can have on your person at all times.

Re: Judge rules Ten Commandments monument must go

Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll

There isnt any religious representation. And you are the one that brought up the founders. ANd the photo that I talked about was the bill of rights. ANd I acknowledged Moses and the tablets representing the ten commandments. But the commandments themselves show up nowhere in or on the entire building.

And most glaringly I provided you with a link to the official supreme court site that explains that the bill of rights and all of the figures in the sculptures. Moses is from the old testament not the new testament, having Moses there doesnt at all represent Christianity at all. What isnt there is anything to do with the Christian faith. Zero reflection of anything Christian shows your willingness to lie and try and rewrite history.

Moses was not Christian and can never represent a Christian influence

you seem to be off track, I am responding to your post #229 ..not 223

no its not the bill of rights,...as you can see its a tablet....the 10 amendments did not come from tablets.

now when it comes to addressing you post 223. the declaration of independence is u.s. law...it us code.

the declaration speaks of god, and his divine Providence

" And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

as to the declaration of being law, it is also used in u.s. laws, like the enabling acts of the u.s.

"...In a suit brought by the American Civil Liberties Union of Kentucky, the United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit held that the displays—in this case, a Ten Commandments display at the McCreary County courthouse in Whitley City, Kentucky and a Ten Commandments display at the Pulaski County courthouse—were unconstitutional.

The appeal from that decision, argued by Mathew Staver of Liberty Counsel, urged reformulation or abandonment of the "Lemon test" set forth in Lemon v. Kurtzman, which has been applied to religious displays on government property and to other Establishment Clause issues.

The Supreme Court ruled on June 27, 2005, in a 5-4 decision, that the display was unconstitutional....".

The reason Van Orden v. Perry was ruled constitutional was because the TC monument was located in a park that included 17 other monuments that depicted or represented the history of Texas. The monument itself was not a stand alone religious symbol located on or in the City Hall or courthouse proper like the monument in the McCreary County case or this one.

Applying the Lemon Test.....

The Court's decision in this case established the "Lemon test", which details the requirements for legislation concerning religion. It is threefold:

1.The statute must not result in an "excessive government entanglement" with religious affairs. (also known as the Entanglement Prong)

2.The statute must not advance or inhibit religious practice (also known as the Effect Prong)

3.The statute must have a secular legislative purpose. (also known as the Purpose Prong)

If any of these prongs are violated, the government's action is deemed unconstitutional under the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.

Re: Judge rules Ten Commandments monument must go

no its not the bill of rights,...as you can see its a tablet....the 10 amendments did not come from tablets.

now when it comes to addressing you post 223. the declaration of independence is u.s. law...it us code.

the declaration speaks of god, and his divine Providence

" And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

as to the declaration of being law, it is also used in u.s. laws, like the enabling acts of the u.s.

Originally Posted by ernst barkmann

well its simple people of the bible, are in our government buildings / institutions..

Yet none of them are actually Christian nor represented as for religious reasons. So claiming a Christian influence isnt going to be found with any figures on government buildings. Divine Providence isnt at all viewed as just being a Christian thing. "May divine providence bless us with enough courage and enough determination to perceive within ourselves this holy German space." - Adolf Hitler, Speech, March 24, 1933

So define the declaration of independence as a law? What did the declaration of independence do originally? What "Title" of US code law is the declaration of independence under? Oh wait it is in the "Front Matter" isn't it? The Front matter though are not law's oops you fail.

"Pages of a book that precede the first page of the text, and may include the half title, frontspiece (illustration usually facing the first page or title page), title page, dedication, table of contents, acknowledgements (or list of contributors), list of illustrations, and list of tables. Front matter is usually printed last to allow for final adjustments, and is often numbered in Roman numerals instead of Arabic numerals used for the main text."

Re: Judge rules Ten Commandments monument must go

Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll

Yet none of them are actually Christian nor represented as for religious reasons. So claiming a Christian influence isnt going to be found with any figures on government buildings. Divine Providence isnt at all viewed as just being a Christian thing. "May divine providence bless us with enough courage and enough determination to perceive within ourselves this holy German space." - Adolf Hitler, Speech, March 24, 1933

I did not make the claim Christianity was on the USSC, I stated Moses and the 10 commandments was....and he and they are.

Providence in general, or foresight, is a function of the virtue of prudence, and may be defined as the practical reason, adapting means to an end. As applied to God, Providence is God Himself considered in that act by which in His wisdom He so orders all events within the universe that the end for which it was created may be realized. That end is that all creatures should manifest the glory of God, and in particular that man should glorify Him, recognizing in nature the work of His hand, serving Him in obedience and love, and thereby attaining to the full development of his nature and to eternal happiness in God. The universe is a system of real beings created by God and directed by Him to this supreme end, the concurrence of God being necessary for all natural operations, whether of things animate or inanimate, and still more so for operations of the supernatural order. God preserves the universe in being; He acts in and with every creature in each and all its activities. In spite of sin, which is due to the wilful perversion of human liberty, acting with the concurrence, but contrary to the purpose and intention of God and in spite of evil which is the consequence of sin, He directs all, even evil and sin itself, to the final end for which the universe was created. All these operations on God's part, with the exception of creation, are attributed in Catholic theology to Divine Providence. Hitlers speech is not law, the declaration is, with its founding principles.

Though the term Providence is applied to God only three times in Scripture (Ecclesiastes 5:5; Wisdom 14:3; Judith 9:5), and once to Wisdom (Wisdom 6:17), the general doctrine of Providence is consistently taught throughout both the Old and New Testaments

So define the declaration of independence as a law? What did the declaration of independence do originally? What "Title" of US code law is the declaration of independence under? Oh wait it is in the "Front Matter" isn't it? The Front matter though are not law's oops you fail.

"Pages of a book that precede the first page of the text, and may include the half title, frontspiece (illustration usually facing the first page or title page), title page, dedication, table of contents, acknowledgements (or list of contributors), list of illustrations, and list of tables. Front matter is usually printed last to allow for final adjustments, and is often numbered in Roman numerals instead of Arabic numerals used for the main text."

Re: Judge rules Ten Commandments monument must go

I get so sick of this idiotic crap. Nowhere in the Constitution is this judge's decision supported. No law has been passed by Congress that gives preference of one religion over any other in this case.

This is nothing more than some dumbass getting all butt-hurt over the Ten being displayed and deciding to sue to get it removed.