Point 2 - there are signs of this, no doubt, but not enough that I'd elevate it to a fact.

Point 2 is probably the main one for me. If it's true, and the FO should know either way, I'd be much more inclined to get rid. Tying up that big a % of the cap in a locker room cancer would be silly.

Does anyone know how much dead money we'd carry if we traded him? How much of his cap hit comes from past signing bonuses vs salary/future bonuses?

I also think that if you start shopping him, his value goes down a lot. The only way of doing it would be to be very subtle about it IMO.

It's virtually impossible to say with the #s I have. In 2012 we "restructured" nearly $10 million dollars of his contract. For Mayhew, in the past that has simply meant taking his non-guaranteed salary and "kicking the can" down the road and turning that money into guaranteed future money. If that's the case it may cost us enormous money to get rid of him (still cheaper than keeping him, though!).

He initially signed a contract with $40 million in guaranteed money. The best I can tell he's scheduled to make $17 million this season ($11 million of it is salary, $6 million pro-rated bonus), but sport trac is suggesting that he's signed through 2015. He's also slated to make $17 million next season too...

wjb - For one.. swapping Werner for Avril is going to free up some cap room so who knows who the Lions would target in FA. As far as LT/RT.. I'd put Reiff in at LT and depending on Gos' contract demands bring him back too. Gos did play better this year and while I would like an upgrade there, I'll say you can't fill all holes in one off-season.

For the CBs... I'd bring back Houston.. can't let him go IMO and who knows.. maybe a full off-season for our young CBs we drafted last year may just surprise us OR.. depending how much cap is available and who is out there, go sign one.

That's where I would start.

_________________

NEVER GIVE UP!

February 1st, 2013, 1:49 pm

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10408Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Lions place Titus Young on IR

To greatly improve this team, at least from a player personnel side, this is what the Lions have to do:

1. They need a safety-everyone skims over this because of Delmas, but he can't be counted on any longer. The Lions MUST do what is necessary to find a ballhawker in the middle of the field, preferrably one that is a capable tackler as well. Delmas might be able to play more games per season if he knows he's not the only one back there with talent and thus won't feel like he has to do everything.

2. Replace Avril-he proved what most of us were saying at this time last year, he's not an elite pass rusher and not worth 8 figures per season. He faces right tackles every game, usually one on one, and his numbers aren't all that impressive. At #5 the Lions are faced with the chance to bring in a top pass rusher. If they choose to go in another direction, they now have $10.6M available in the cap with Avril gone. That can buy a pretty good pass rusher.

3. Improve the o-line inside-with Reiff the Lions have their LT of the future. He can do the job, and will only get better with age. Offensive linemen typically don't peak until late 20's anyways. Rob Sims is good enough, but we don't know Bill Nagy is our future center with his ankle issues. We know Peterman needs to go. Time for some new blood in there to help with the running game. Right tackle? Hilliard, Fox oand/r a mid-round pick can battle it out. If Cherilus doesn't make ridiculous contract demands, you can add him to the mix as well. He won't command top money on the open market.

4. Second corner - Everybody dismisses Chris Houston, but he's better than most give him credit for. Most of the big plays against our secondary aren't made against him, but rather on the opposite side or down the middle. He's doing his job. The Lions should re-sign him and find a capable second corner....and not in the third round of the freakin' draft.

5. Second receiver-The Lions are still looking for someone who can be RELIED upon as their second receiver. Nate? He runs hot and cold. Titus? Please.... Broyles? He'll be lucky to be the third in the rotation with his knee issues. They need a solid possession receiver who simply can't be covered one on one by average CBs, or taken out by physical corners. That player hasn't been on our roster in quite some time.

6. Weakside backer - The Lions have relied on small, quick and easily blocked weakside linebackers for many, many years. More often than not you can find them imitating a pinball on the field, bouncing off strong running backs or getting blasted by lead blockers. We need someone with some mass who knows how to tackle and won't get easily bowled over and taken out of the play. DeAndre Levy ain't him.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

February 1st, 2013, 4:32 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Lions place Titus Young on IR

M2 - Even with Avril gone we don't have $10.6 million in cap space. I think we're underwater or barely treading water, even with our unsigned FAs.

Matt Stafford's cap # went up by $12 million dollars (yes, that's $12 million MORE in 2013 over his 2012 salary). Suh's salary went up $11 million dollars (and again, yes, that's $11 million MORE).

Are you guys seeing why I've been so pissed at Mayhew for "kicking the can down the road"? All of those chickens are coming home to roost.

February 1st, 2013, 4:37 pm

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10408Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Lions place Titus Young on IR

wjb21ndtown wrote:

M2 - Even with Avril gone we don't have $10.6 million in cap space. I think we're underwater or barely treading water, even with our unsigned FAs.

Matt Stafford's cap # went up by $12 million dollars (yes, that's $12 million MORE in 2013 over his 2012 salary). Suh's salary went up $11 million dollars (and again, yes, that's $11 million MORE).

Are you guys seeing why I've been so pissed at Mayhew for "kicking the can down the road"? All of those chickens are coming home to roost.

I don't follow the Lions salary situation like I used to, so I wasn't aware of that. However, I understand what Mayhew did and why. I don't particularly like it, but the option was to let Avril walk (which I had no problem with) and allow CJ to play the final year of his deal and put him in an even stronger bargaining position now (Mayhew made the right choice). Believe me, I don't think Mayhew is doing a great job, but he's sort of handcuffed by the team having all these players on HUGE rookie contracts due to the high picks we had just before the new CBA with the rookie salary reductions. Until some of that can be cleared out, he's financially limited.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

February 1st, 2013, 4:58 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Lions place Titus Young on IR

m2karateman wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

M2 - Even with Avril gone we don't have $10.6 million in cap space. I think we're underwater or barely treading water, even with our unsigned FAs.

Matt Stafford's cap # went up by $12 million dollars (yes, that's $12 million MORE in 2013 over his 2012 salary). Suh's salary went up $11 million dollars (and again, yes, that's $11 million MORE).

Are you guys seeing why I've been so pissed at Mayhew for "kicking the can down the road"? All of those chickens are coming home to roost.

I don't follow the Lions salary situation like I used to, so I wasn't aware of that. However, I understand what Mayhew did and why. I don't particularly like it, but the option was to let Avril walk (which I had no problem with) and allow CJ to play the final year of his deal and put him in an even stronger bargaining position now (Mayhew made the right choice). Believe me, I don't think Mayhew is doing a great job, but he's sort of handcuffed by the team having all these players on HUGE rookie contracts due to the high picks we had just before the new CBA with the rookie salary reductions. Until some of that can be cleared out, he's financially limited.

M2 - that doesn't excuse paying Nate B $6.5 million dollars, or Corey Williams $5.5 million dollars to be our #3 DT, or over paying Raiola and Peterman. Peterman should have been replaced by a 2nd or 3rd round guy over a year ago. He makes $3 million dollars. Raiola is making around $7 million per year, and is definitely replaceable.

And, instead of being upfront, knocking these over-paid vets out of here, and freeing up $20 million dollars in 2012 alone, we've pushed everyone's salary back until it's not blowing up in our faces. It's ridiculous and irresponsible. We COULD have used that $20 million to help digest Suh's contract or Stafford's contract, but instead we've let that snowball roll and pick up size and momentum.

Now do you see why I was so bent on getting rid of some of those guys last year?

If Mayhew had 1/2 a brain he would have negotiated with Avril BEFORE the draft and got a feel for where he was at. He had planned on Avril settling for $8.5 or so, and was shocked that he wouldn't take $10+ per season. He should have known that before the draft and traded him or let him walk. That's $30 million dollars between that handful of mediocre players that we lost last year, and you don't think that's ridiculous?

M2 - Even with Avril gone we don't have $10.6 million in cap space. I think we're underwater or barely treading water, even with our unsigned FAs.

Matt Stafford's cap # went up by $12 million dollars (yes, that's $12 million MORE in 2013 over his 2012 salary). Suh's salary went up $11 million dollars (and again, yes, that's $11 million MORE).

Are you guys seeing why I've been so pissed at Mayhew for "kicking the can down the road"? All of those chickens are coming home to roost.

Your mad at Mayhew because of the previous CBA. It is not Mayhew's fault the previous CBA virtually mandated paying incoming 1st round rookies more than elite veterans. Mayhew has no choice but to "Kick that can down the road", until the salary cap finally sees the new TV money. He didn't even have the options of forfeiting top 10 picks. Be mad at Mayhew for things that are out of his control all you want. It won't do anything but give you a diaper rash. I think Mayhew is doing as good a job as anyone else would be able to do, capwise, given the rules he had to follow.

February 1st, 2013, 6:02 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Lions place Titus Young on IR

BillySims wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

M2 - Even with Avril gone we don't have $10.6 million in cap space. I think we're underwater or barely treading water, even with our unsigned FAs.

Matt Stafford's cap # went up by $12 million dollars (yes, that's $12 million MORE in 2013 over his 2012 salary). Suh's salary went up $11 million dollars (and again, yes, that's $11 million MORE).

Are you guys seeing why I've been so pissed at Mayhew for "kicking the can down the road"? All of those chickens are coming home to roost.

Your mad at Mayhew because of the previous CBA. It is not Mayhew's fault the previous CBA virtually mandated paying incoming 1st round rookies more than elite veterans. Mayhew has no choice but to "Kick that can down the road", until the salary cap finally sees the new TV money. He didn't even have the options of forfeiting top 10 picks. Be mad at Mayhew for things that are out of his control all you want. It won't do anything but give you a diaper rash. I think Mayhew is doing as good a job as anyone else would be able to do, capwise, given the rules he had to follow.

Mayhew could have freed up $10-15 million last year with little to no drop off in talent. He didn't "have" to kick the can down the road." He could have gotten rid of Corey Williams (and we likely could have gotten a decent draft pick for him (4th, 5th), he could have gotten rid of Nate B, and he could have gotten rid of Peterman. with little to no drop off in talent.

Not only would that have freed up $10-15 million last year, it would have saved us money this year too... Those same players would be gone, and their salary would be completely off of the books. Williams is now gone, but that Nate Burleson decision is now a $9 million dollar decision, not a $6 million dollar decision like it was last year. Additionally, that Stephen Peterman decision is now a $6 million dollar decision, not a $3 million dollar decision like it was last year. Additionally, we could have gotten rid of Avril for another $10 million dollars.

Billy, that's an easy $20-30 million ($20 million with Avril on the roster, $30 million without). That's what's killing this team. Stafford and Suh are over-paid, but at least they're somewhat earning their paychecks. Peterman, Raiola, Nate B, Corey Williams, etc., those guys WEREN'T earning their paychecks and that's what has this team in cap trouble. We could have easily afforded Staff and Suh had we not over paid those guys. Over $10 million of the combined $34 million that they're due in 2013 should have been paid to them last year with money freed up from cutting that fat.

February 1st, 2013, 6:13 pm

thelomasbrowns

Player of the Year - Offense

Joined: August 24th, 2010, 9:54 pmPosts: 2871

Re: Lions place Titus Young on IR

Dumb question: Aren't cap issues Lewan's thing?

_________________"Good teams don't worry about a whole lot of stuff. They travel, they play, they win. And it doesn't matter where they go, what the time block is, all those kinds of things. They never seem to bother teams that play well, and we want to be one of those teams." -Jim Caldwell

February 2nd, 2013, 8:21 am

wjb21ndtown

Re: Lions place Titus Young on IR

thelomasbrowns wrote:

Dumb question: Aren't cap issues Lewan's thing?

Yes and no... Mayhew decides who to extend and who to cut, Lewand plays with the numbers to make it work. Nate B, Peterman, and Corey Williams should have been gone. That's $13 million that Lewand shouldn't have had to "make work."

What's unclear is, who does the contract negotiating to extend players and "restructure deals," but it seems like it's a Mayhew duty.

February 2nd, 2013, 11:06 am

wjb21ndtown

Re: Lions place Titus Young on IR

thelomasbrowns wrote:

Dumb question: Aren't cap issues Lewan's thing?

Yes and no... Mayhew decides who to extend and who to cut, Lewand plays with the numbers to make it work. Nate B, Peterman, and Corey Williams should have been gone. That's $13 million that Lewand shouldn't have had to "make work."

What's unclear is, who does the contract negotiating to extend players and "restructure deals," but it seems like it's a Mayhew duty.

February 2nd, 2013, 11:07 am

thelomasbrowns

Player of the Year - Offense

Joined: August 24th, 2010, 9:54 pmPosts: 2871

Re: Lions place Titus Young on IR

He's gone.

_________________"Good teams don't worry about a whole lot of stuff. They travel, they play, they win. And it doesn't matter where they go, what the time block is, all those kinds of things. They never seem to bother teams that play well, and we want to be one of those teams." -Jim Caldwell

February 4th, 2013, 5:09 pm

Wayne Fontes

Color Commentator - John Madden

Joined: January 19th, 2007, 3:21 amPosts: 1920Location: A2

Re: Lions place Titus Young on IR

It's too bad he was such a knucklehead. I would think that in a winning locker room he's not as much of a bitch. Terrible waste of a pick. Moves WR up to one of the top priorities for the offseason. Pathetic, considering all the picks and signings that we've committed to the position and all we really have right now is CJ and Mike Thomas. Who knows how Broyles/Burleson will bounce back from injuries? Get ready to crap a brick when they take a WR in the second round, AGAIN!

_________________Forward down the field!

February 4th, 2013, 5:12 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Lions place Titus Young on IR

thelomasbrowns wrote:

He's gone.

Cleared up the sentiment on here that he had any sort of trade value.

Lets just hope he doesn't end up with Chicago and screwing us twice a year.

I wish we could have traded him just so we could determine where he ended up going.

February 4th, 2013, 5:13 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Lions place Titus Young on IR

Wayne Fontes wrote:

It's too bad he was such a knucklehead. I would think that in a winning locker room he's not as much of a bitch. Terrible waste of a pick. Moves WR up to one of the top priorities for the offseason. Pathetic, considering all the picks and signings that we've committed to the position and all we really have right now is CJ and Mike Thomas. Who knows how Broyles/Burleson will bounce back from injuries? Get ready to crap a brick when they take a WR in the second round, AGAIN!

We should try to sign Hixon or Massoquoi. We have too many high priced needs (LT and DE mostly) to consider wasting a pick on a starting caliber WR.