Makh:People like pretty things and many are swayed by popularity? I never knew.

The only way they could play to even more people is if they offered free beer and junk food at the Apple stores.

The problem is that "designers" like that aren't interested in functional design as much as they are making a "brand identity". Hopefully, design decisions will be made based on how it looks and fits with a regular user's life (putting fins on it, even if they house bigger chips or an add-on card, is a fail. Not that I think this is possible).

Steve Jobs didn't have a fashion degree, and his designs were "simplify, simplify". How does that jive with hiring a "design consultant" whose very job is about complicating design?

How many examples of design getting up its own ass do I need to cite (beyond Homer's car of the future) as proof?

Dr Dreidel:Makh: People like pretty things and many are swayed by popularity? I never knew.

The only way they could play to even more people is if they offered free beer and junk food at the Apple stores.

The problem is that "designers" like that aren't interested in functional design as much as they are making a "brand identity". Hopefully, design decisions will be made based on how it looks and fits with a regular user's life (putting fins on it, even if they house bigger chips or an add-on card, is a fail. Not that I think this is possible).

Steve Jobs didn't have a fashion degree, and his designs were "simplify, simplify". How does that jive with hiring a "design consultant" whose very job is about complicating design?

How many examples of design getting up its own ass do I need to cite (beyond Homer's car of the future) as proof?

Steve Jobs designs were all stolen from Bang and Olflsan, Sony, and Olevetti.

Looooong time Windows user and current enterprise storage admin here. Just recently bought a couple Macs for the first time, including the new Macbook Air. This may or may not have come as a result of using some Windows 8 machines recently.

The competing OS's (Windows 7 and Mountain Lion) do roughly the same thing in different ways, and there is lots to like on both sides. The build quality on the Air is absolutely stunning, so if they keep that up, then it's all good. Also, 12 hours of battery life in a package that small is amazing, and makes the non (quickly) replaceable battery a moot point. Until this new designer actually farks something up, I'll reserve judgement.

I was a long-time iPhone user (having recently switched to an Android device).

The only clear advantage the iPhone and other iOS devices have over their Android (and Windows-based) counterparts is that iDevices have phenomenal battery life and power efficiency.

Aside from the battery concern, though, iPhones and iOS devices are roughly at parity with Android and Windows devices in terms of hardware.

The thing that pushed me over from iPhone to Android was the fact that Android allows me to choose which apps are the default apps for certain things.

In iOS, the default browser is always Safari and if you click on a link in an email or an app, it will launch in Safari. Third party browsers are kind of out of luck in this regard. Android allows me to choose my browser defaults as well as the photo viewer defaults, PDF viewer defaults, etc.

Maybe I'm the only one, but I like having generally disposable devices. If a 500 or 600 dollar laptop breaks or if I get bored with it, I can get another one and that would be barely a concern of mine. If a 1200 dollar laptop breaks or I get bored with it, I'm kind of stuck. For the price of one Macbook Pro, I can buy two new laptops over the course of 4 years.

Yes, maybe that's not the most rational ways of thinking of it, but I balk at spending 1200 in one shot but wouldn't bat an eyelash at spending $600 twice over 4 years.

theflatline:Steve Jobs designs were all stolen from Bang and Olflsan, Sony, and Olevetti.

So? Better to be stolen by a product person than dreamed up by a 6 or 7-figure "design consultant".

Either the consultant comes back with an overly-ornate or overly-showy design that fails as a useful product (think 70% of the clothing at fashion shows vs what people actually wear), or the consultant produces a more minimalist design, in which case what did they spend a million bucks on?

If Apple's admitting that they can't design anything without The Master's guiding hand, there are far better ways to do it than this.

I've owned a fw ipods, including a touch..all gifts and you can put me solidly in the "just don;t get the appeal" camp. The ipod was an okay MP3 player that was extremely annoying to get my old DRM-free content onto, or move purchased content from device to device.

abut for me the real sticking point is price: This Christmas, The wife got a 4G Android Smartphone that has a faster processor more memory and a bigger screen, than an Iphone 4 (HTC Evo 4g) My son got an android smartphone that has equivalent specs to the Iphone and an expansion slot for SD cards and built-in Beats Audio (HTC one V)/ They were both purchased on a pay as you go network (so no carrier subsidies) and I got a Google Nexus 7, which has faster processors and a better display than the Ipad mini, yet COMBINED they were less than a single 7in iPad mini

Magorn:I've owned a fw ipods, including a touch..all gifts and you can put me solidly in the "just don;t get the appeal" camp. The ipod was an okay MP3 player that was extremely annoying to get my old DRM-free content onto, or move purchased content from device to device.

I've had iPods since the first USB model. I've never had any trouble with putting my own content on them, or moving DRM content from device to device.

RexTalionis:In iOS, the default browser is always Safari and if you click on a link in an email or an app, it will launch in Safari. Third party browsers are kind of out of luck in this regard. Android allows me to choose my browser defaults as well as the photo viewer defaults, PDF viewer defaults, etc.

Wait, isn't that the *exact same behavior* that caused microsoft to fall afoul of antitrust laws?

Kanemano:Dr Dreidel: Steve Jobs didn't have a fashion degree, and his designs were "simplify, simplify". How does that jive with hiring a "design consultant" whose very job is about complicating design?

he hired frog design, they did the designing .

Ah.

Yes, that does change things.

// and I'll add that if the focus is (remains?) on "simple and functional", Apple deserves praise// still don't think they needed to hire someone from the world of haute couture, though

Maybe I'm the only one, but I like having generally disposable devices. If a 500 or 600 dollar laptop breaks or if I get bored with it, I can get another one and that would be barely a concern of mine. If a 1200 dollar laptop breaks or I get bored with it, I'm kind of stuck. For the price of one Macbook Pro, I can buy two new laptops over the course of 4 years.

Yes, maybe that's not the most rational ways of thinking of it, but I balk at spending 1200 in one shot but wouldn't bat an eyelash at spending $600 twice over 4 years.

Normally I despise the culture of disposability that we have developed, it leads to cheap products and lots of waste, but tech is a weird category in that it is more about frequent upgrading to newer/faster/better devices instead of just disposability.

That said, I used to be a "cheap" laptop user. Usually running some flavour of linux and maybe a small windows partition. I still heavily use linux (8-core, 50GB of RAM workstation) on a day to day basis but I made the switch to a Macbook Air as my "interface" and general computing laptop that I use constantly and am totally sold. It also has a much higher quality compared to cheap laptops. Cheap laptops do break pretty easily. Hinges on the lid, backlight, fans, internal components, etc. My macbook takes just as much abuse as any of my other laptops ever did and doesn't flinch. I'm less worried about it breaking over the 4 year period than I am cheaper laptops.

entropic_existence:That said, I used to be a "cheap" laptop user. Usually running some flavour of linux and maybe a small windows partition. I still heavily use linux (8-core, 50GB of RAM workstation) on a day to day basis but I made the switch to a Macbook Air as my "interface" and general computing laptop that I use constantly and am totally sold. It also has a much higher quality compared to cheap laptops. Cheap laptops do break pretty easily. Hinges on the lid, backlight, fans, internal components, etc. My macbook takes just as much abuse as any of my other laptops ever did and doesn't flinch. I'm less worried about it breaking over the 4 year period than I am cheaper laptops.

Second that. Apple's current laptop line (Air + Pro) has a nice attribute: both models were originally the premium models containing the highest build quality and latest tech, where the price was higher because the extra money was worth it because otherwise you'd have bought the low-cost MacBook instead. Now that the tech's all perfected, the Air is the low-cost MacBook, but the design is perfected and the suppliers like Intel are all caught up with mass-producing the special orders Apple originally demanded.

This is precisely the grasp of the English language I would expect from an apoplectic Frother. Cut from the same loincloth and of the same ilk as WHAR et al. Indeed, as the priest is to homosexuality, the frothing hater is to Apple.

While my Android phone does seem a bit better foR work related nursing apps, my iPad is absolutely great for nursing school and I can't imagine making it through without it. Also before you start thinking sexy nurse, I'm an overweight balding guy in his 30's who used to a network guy.

theflatline:Dr Dreidel: Makh: People like pretty things and many are swayed by popularity? I never knew.

The only way they could play to even more people is if they offered free beer and junk food at the Apple stores.

The problem is that "designers" like that aren't interested in functional design as much as they are making a "brand identity". Hopefully, design decisions will be made based on how it looks and fits with a regular user's life (putting fins on it, even if they house bigger chips or an add-on card, is a fail. Not that I think this is possible).

Steve Jobs didn't have a fashion degree, and his designs were "simplify, simplify". How does that jive with hiring a "design consultant" whose very job is about complicating design?

How many examples of design getting up its own ass do I need to cite (beyond Homer's car of the future) as proof?

Steve Jobs designs were all stolen from Bang and Olflsan, Sony, and Olevetti.

Apple is going to make turntables and typewriters now?I wouldn't buy them, but it would be neat to see.

RexTalionis:Russky: Or if you want to actually use it for recording music, Android's hardware has been an abject failure for musicians up until the recent nexus which only has twice the input delay of ios devices.

I can't imagine that being that big of an issue for most phone users.

Or most musicians. Even amateur guys are likely going to do their recording through a laptop or desktop versus a phone.

Maybe I'm the only one, but I like having generally disposable devices. If a 500 or 600 dollar laptop breaks or if I get bored with it, I can get another one and that would be barely a concern of mine. If a 1200 dollar laptop breaks or I get bored with it, I'm kind of stuck. For the price of one Macbook Pro, I can buy two new laptops over the course of 4 years.

Yes, maybe that's not the most rational ways of thinking of it, but I balk at spending 1200 in one shot but wouldn't bat an eyelash at spending $600 twice over 4 years.

Normally I despise the culture of disposability that we have developed, it leads to cheap products and lots of waste, but tech is a weird category in that it is more about frequent upgrading to newer/faster/better devices instead of just disposability.

That said, I used to be a "cheap" laptop user. Usually running some flavour of linux and maybe a small windows partition. I still heavily use linux (8-core, 50GB of RAM workstation) on a day to day basis but I made the switch to a Macbook Air as my "interface" and general computing laptop that I use constantly and am totally sold. It also has a much higher quality compared to cheap laptops. Cheap laptops do break pretty easily. Hinges on the lid, backlight, fans, internal components, etc. My macbook takes just as much abuse as any of my other laptops ever did and doesn't flinch. I'm less worried about it breaking over the 4 year period than I am cheaper laptops.

I don't disagree with you that the build quality is better on Macbooks, but, really I get bored having the same device for prolonged periods of time, so I get lots of replacement devices (I swapped out my iPhone 4S for a Nexus 4 after 1 year of use, will probably swap the Nexus 4 for the Moto X when that gets released later this year) on a regular basis. Yeah, I've got a problem.

...and nobody else is talking about the wearable computing angle? Apple filed a patent for a computer watch in Japan, anybody? Nobody? Apple's March filings for patents relating to curved screens and batteries? Watches that link to your phone via Bluetooth coming out this week? Show text messages or the number of who's calling before you fish that phone out?

entropic_existence:RexTalionis: Russky: Or if you want to actually use it for recording music, Android's hardware has been an abject failure for musicians up until the recent nexus which only has twice the input delay of ios devices.

I can't imagine that being that big of an issue for most phone users.

Or most musicians. Even amateur guys are likely going to do their recording through a laptop or desktop versus a phone.

Meh there have actually been full records released that were recorded on an ipad. that being said the point of a tablet is mobility and sometimes it's nice to be mobile and record things.

Everything is better on a desktop but it's not mobile so it's kind of a pointless comparison.

RexTalionis:Russky: Or if you want to actually use it for recording music, Android's hardware has been an abject failure for musicians up until the recent nexus which only has twice the input delay of ios devices.

I can't imagine that being that big of an issue for most phone users.

Well tablet more so. Fender for example has put out a fantastic app that you can pretty much use to replace all of your guitar pedals at a much cheaper price. But you won't be doing that on android and you certainly wouldn't want to carry a desktop around to 'jamming' sessions.

Maybe I'm the only one, but I like having generally disposable devices. If a 500 or 600 dollar laptop breaks or if I get bored with it, I can get another one and that would be barely a concern of mine. If a 1200 dollar laptop breaks or I get bored with it, I'm kind of stuck. For the price of one Macbook Pro, I can buy two new laptops over the course of 4 years.

Yes, maybe that's not the most rational ways of thinking of it, but I balk at spending 1200 in one shot but wouldn't bat an eyelash at spending $600 twice over 4 years.

Yeah, I typically spend around $700 for a laptop I expect to last - in terms of specs - for about two years. Apple's build quality only seems superior to PCs because they don't make budget models. A $1200 PC laptop is typically going to be built well, too.

That said, I don't want my laptops to last for four years or more. You can add RAM and a larger drive easily, but anything else is a pain. In that 2 year span processors get faster, factory RAM and storage rises, etc. Why would I want to be stuck with a 4 year-old rig when in that 4 years my computing needs have almost assuredly grown more demanding? I always outgrow my rigs within a couple of years.

Desktops are different, as you can more or less keep upgrading the thing cheaply and easily for 50 farking years.

Russky:RexTalionis: Russky: Or if you want to actually use it for recording music, Android's hardware has been an abject failure for musicians up until the recent nexus which only has twice the input delay of ios devices.

I can't imagine that being that big of an issue for most phone users.

Well tablet more so. Fender for example has put out a fantastic app that you can pretty much use to replace all of your guitar pedals at a much cheaper price. But you won't be doing that on android and you certainly wouldn't want to carry a desktop around to 'jamming' sessions.

Even on tablets, it's an extreme niche product with an extreme niche appeal. Even more so than the people who bought Photoshop for iOS and Android (like me).

poot_rootbeer:Dr Dreidel: the consultant produces a more minimalist design, in which case what did they spend a million bucks on?

Er... they'll have spent it on a more minimalist design? Which, given Apple's tendencies, will likely be appreciated and considered money well spent?

Is this a trick question?

I can pay a 5-star chef $10k to make a steak on my grill, or I can slap the same $15 steak on my grill and watch it myself. In the former case, I may get a better steak, but the difference in cost hardly seems worth it.

Russky:Well tablet more so. Fender for example has put out a fantastic app that you can pretty much use to replace all of your guitar pedals at a much cheaper price. But you won't be doing that on android and you certainly wouldn't want to carry a desktop around to 'jamming' sessions.

This is the kind of feature where most users don't really care. I doubt that many people have said "Well, I'm not going to buy that tablet because it's not so great for professional recording studio sessions!" It's a feature, sure, but it's not a feature that most people would care about. It's like NFC - having it is nice, but seriously, does anyone actually buy it for that feature?

RexTalionis:Russky: RexTalionis: Russky: Or if you want to actually use it for recording music, Android's hardware has been an abject failure for musicians up until the recent nexus which only has twice the input delay of ios devices.

I can't imagine that being that big of an issue for most phone users.

Well tablet more so. Fender for example has put out a fantastic app that you can pretty much use to replace all of your guitar pedals at a much cheaper price. But you won't be doing that on android and you certainly wouldn't want to carry a desktop around to 'jamming' sessions.

Even on tablets, it's an extreme niche product with an extreme niche appeal. Even more so than the people who bought Photoshop for iOS and Android (like me).

That fine but it still doesn't erase the fact that apple does that part of hardware better. It's amazing to me how so many people can't just say 'yup' and move on. they come up with all kinds of reasons to dismiss it because well i don't know, I guess they can't comprehend that a person might buy an apple product for an actual technical reason. I suppose it doesn't fit in with their generalizations of someone that buys an apple product..

Oh, and one more thing - why is that whenever I go to a coffee shop, 65% of the people are using Macs? This is wildly disproportionate to the Mac's overall market share. Seriously, would anyone float a hypothesis to help explain this? I don't get how having an Apple product suddenly makes you more mobile and interested in coffee.

RexTalionis:Russky: Well tablet more so. Fender for example has put out a fantastic app that you can pretty much use to replace all of your guitar pedals at a much cheaper price. But you won't be doing that on android and you certainly wouldn't want to carry a desktop around to 'jamming' sessions.

This is the kind of feature where most users don't really care. I doubt that many people have said "Well, I'm not going to buy that tablet because it's not so great for professional recording studio sessions!" It's a feature, sure, but it's not a feature that most people would care about. It's like NFC - having it is nice, but seriously, does anyone actually buy it for that feature?

I didn't know we could only discuss features that most people care about, or that i should actually care what most people care about or why that's even part of the conversation.