Trammel Woes - Community feeling is gone

Stratics Veteran

So i decided to work on a tamer i began in 99. I went to jhelom farms in trammel as I had heard that this was the place to train on bulls.

Well, Let me tell you folks about my experience.

First, 1 guy had one tamed and was training it on smaller animals. he declined multiple requests that he leave the server line for just a moment with it, even gates. Even when offered a million gold to do so.

Second, another guy shows up and just stands there killing bulls as they spawn. Saying all sorts of rude things. Refusing to leave, even when politely asked AND offered a million gold check to do so.

Next, I deal with some guy spamming some unfriendly statements but him i just use ignore on.

Unfriendly UO player #2 declined dueling mage on mage or any template on any template.

What has happened to the folks in this game? There is no friendliness, no courtesy. Trammel has become a danged cesspool. I found myself taming on a newbie tamer eventually in peace in fel. I've be attacked once but left alone when the less savory citizen of sosaria realized I was taming naked with nothing on me and no insured property.

I've had some bad experiences in UO. But folks in Trammel have convinced me that UO is single player only as soon as you leave the land of the red gates.

The only communities I can find anymore are in fel I guess. It's just sad that folks are so rude in this game and that the land meant to provide safety and insulation is really just a haven for those who desire to bother you with absolute impunity.

Stratics Veteran

Aside: I hope you did not encounter this on my quiet little homeland, but if you did something must have gone terribly wrong. I have had had, in all my years in Tram, had exactly two unpleasant interactions with people ... one at swoop who didn't like there was someone already there and one at Luna bank with someone who apparently hated role-playing. Both situations were easy to resolve.

Stratics Veteran

What has happened to the folks in this game? There is no friendliness, no courtesy. Trammel has become a danged cesspool. I found myself taming on a newbie tamer eventually in peace in fel. I've be attacked once but left alone when the less savory citizen of sosaria realized I was taming naked with nothing on me and no insured property.

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Perhaps the bribing(that would irk me off) with money soured the mood, not every thing can be bought.

There are good peeps still playing, just harder to find.

Most that frequent(not all) the pens are peeps who are looking to find the easy path to their goals(says a lot about the peeps there).

There are dozens of other creatures in other locations that will bring you past gm, maybe try those.

Stratics Veteran

So as an attempt to not make this a Trammel vs. Felucca debate, which is something only slightly more productive than debating God vs. No God, I'll just bring up two points:

1. Someone actually told you to go to Jhelom? Maybe that's the person you should duel "any template vs. any template" because they set you up for that incident... ON PURPOSE. Everyone knows that the Jhelom farms in Trammel are an eternal battle between the bots and the anti-bots. Well, everyone but you.

2. So you go to an entirely non PvP centered environment and offer to kill someone... and they refused. Are you at all surprised about that either?

Stratics Veteran

Aside: I hope you did not encounter this on my quiet little homeland, but if you did something must have gone terribly wrong. I have had had, in all my years in Tram, had exactly two unpleasant interactions with people ... one at swoop who didn't like there was someone already there and one at Luna bank with someone who apparently hated role-playing. Both situations were easy to resolve.

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Goodness no, Legends has been the friendliest shard. my guild on legends has made it more of a priority to have a positive impact on legends as only 2 guilds on all of legends have shown themselves to be without much tact.

It is a sad state.
I seriously doubt Omnius is trying to start any "red vs blue" uo style.
I have also had some (and it was a very few) incidents with trammelites that were more on the par with the kind of reception I would get in fel way back when. But there are alot of good people in tram, that do go out of their way to be helpful. at times a bit too far, such as giving a impressionable new player a bit too much gold/armor/etc. leaving them with no goals other than raising skills.
The sad part for feluccia is that there is so small of a population on most shards. Thus its easy to raise skills there without much fear of being killed.
all in all, you have some good ones in fel as well as in tram, and on the flipside you have some bad ones in fel as well as in tram.

I think they were fel players disguised have trammy players. a true trammy would never treat a fellow trammy that way.
Best place to tame is on dagger island polar bears, snow leopards. and white wolves. dagger island is a hot spot for taming gains that is the place I GMed my taming. Id recall there start taming kill it after wards work my way around the island to where I started. I would spend 3 or 5 hours taming everyday. Gmed my taming in 9 months. Also if you can get someone to do it with you that has higher taming than you do have them tame things before you that is another way to get gains.

It was more of a complaint that community is so far gone. there exist no real checks to anti-socials.

Remember the days of anti-socials being ostracized and litterally suffering from an inability to compete in a community oriented world?

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I guess that would depend on where you stand.
For some people, the PKs of old would have been the anti-socials. Up to the point where a system was implemented to restrict their abilities to impact the gameplay of others.
A clumsy "fix", to be sure, and it hasn't really redeemed itself.

I go to Fel to tame bulls, and I'd probably wind up dead.
I go to Tram to tame bulls, and I'd end up griefed.
I wouldn't say you can blame the players of any one facet, so much as the players in general.

Stratics Veteran

Now you've done it. Gareth will eventually come in and gripe and complain that a Stratics mod is promoting "that shard" over any other and write a good long 6 paragraph post about how he's sick and tired of it.

Stratics VeteranAlumniStratics Legend

"I've had some bad experiences in UO. But folks in Trammel have convinced me that UO is single player only as soon as you leave the land of the red gates."

Thats alot of bull!

My friends and i helped alot of people in trammel. Anyone can ask us anything and when its in the reach of our possiblilities we always help them out. Some of us only play in Trammel all the time. Its not because you had a few bad experiences that you can mark everyone the same. The only truth is that the bigger the shard the more chance you have to run into the wrong people. Maybe thats why i'm even happyer i play smaller shards like Drachenfels and Napa Valley.

Stratics Veteran

Pre-Trammel, "impunity" actually ruled the day....Because those who would mess up your game ran in packs and there was little or nothing you could do. It's sadly always easier to get people together on an evil basis than on a good one.

Also, these things don't happen all the time or even most of the time. And, about 70% or so of the time when someone's tried to pull stuff with me and I've looked them up? They have either been in a Fellie guild, or in a Trammel guild that's in some way affiliated with a Fellie guild.

Plenty of people abuse the Trammel rules set. Just as plenty of people abuse(d) the Felucca rules.

-Galen's player

Quick edit: Glad to see some of the other replies mirroring my thoughts.

Stratics Veteran

Pre-Trammel, "impunity" actually ruled the day....Because those who would mess up your game ran in packs and there was little or nothing you could do. It's sadly always easier to get people together on an evil basis than on a good one.

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Wow! How things have changed, red factions still rule the champs and any decent chance at making any gold for yourself, one has actually told me he was employed as was his guild to stop people like me to actually get anything.

Actually Omnius, it's been maybe six months past now, but I was curious about the effort it took to establish a "presence," not simply characters, on a new shard. Atlantic was one I “looked at.” No slight toward anyone there, but it wasn’t the "friendliest" place one might play and was comparatively a bit “crowded.” I also tried LA, Cats and later Origin. It took a couple weeks, but was very “doable,” even placed a keep and found a castle site in Fel had I desired to place there. Folks on all the latter three were just fine, on both sides of the Tram/ Fel “divide.” I guess the lesson learned that may be applicable to your post is that population has an impact on behavior possibly more so that other considerations, enough apples in the barrel and you’re likely to find more that are rotten! We have a lot of folks that continue play on Chessie, our home shard, but if you’re looking for a crowd, Atlantic has more to offer, “good” and “bad.”

So i decided to work on a tamer i began in 99. I went to jhelom farms in trammel as I had heard that this was the place to train on bulls.

Well, Let me tell you folks about my experience.

First, 1 guy had one tamed and was training it on smaller animals. he declined multiple requests that he leave the server line for just a moment with it, even gates. Even when offered a million gold to do so.

Second, another guy shows up and just stands there killing bulls as they spawn. Saying all sorts of rude things. Refusing to leave, even when politely asked AND offered a million gold check to do so.

Next, I deal with some guy spamming some unfriendly statements but him i just use ignore on.

Unfriendly UO player #2 declined dueling mage on mage or any template on any template.

What has happened to the folks in this game? There is no friendliness, no courtesy. Trammel has become a danged cesspool. I found myself taming on a newbie tamer eventually in peace in fel. I've be attacked once but left alone when the less savory citizen of sosaria realized I was taming naked with nothing on me and no insured property.

I've had some bad experiences in UO. But folks in Trammel have convinced me that UO is single player only as soon as you leave the land of the red gates.

The only communities I can find anymore are in fel I guess. It's just sad that folks are so rude in this game and that the land meant to provide safety and insulation is really just a haven for those who desire to bother you with absolute impunity.

I do so miss the days of UO community.

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Congratualations you have met the holyier than thou script hunters I talk about who are worse than scripters. I like hunting those type of people when I run into them. That's there hunting spot. The one killing the bulls refuse to let anybody use them for training and the one holding on to the animals refuse to let any more spawn to keep people from scripting. But they are rude as hell they don't care as long as no one uses them for taming doesn't matter who. You missing 1 more the one who takes the animals and disapears with them for the day and hides them on a boat or somewhere else on the server.

Stratics Veteran

Wow! How things have changed, red factions still rule the champs and any decent chance at making any gold for yourself, one has actually told me he was employed as was his guild to stop people like me to actually get anything.

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Come to think of it, the guy that told me this is the one that appears on the gold selling/buying website so looks like uo have found a new way to make revenue.

Stratics VeteranStratics Legend

Not so much to do with trammel/felucca, rather that the game has evolved, and slowly, those little dependancies you have on other players have been removed, thus, changing the community feel.
No more seeking out tamers, smiths for repairs etc, because of game mechanics such as deeds and bonding.
And every game as old as ultima will have most things explored and guided up and down and back again, so everything is a bit easier - all secrets are revealed and easily found on web etc. abundance of veterans with easy acsess to items, also adding to the pool where in game community changes. and probably a ton of other theories =/

Stratics VeteranStratics Legend

Pre-Trammel, "impunity" actually ruled the day....Because those who would mess up your game ran in packs and there was little or nothing you could do. It's sadly always easier to get people together on an evil basis than on a good one.

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Maybe Im a romantic, but I also remember running to trinsic after being camped by the pack of miner pk's, rounding up a bunch of people and having a blast setting up a trap, and eventually sometimes kill them back. The will of the community to step up too those challenges was far greater then than now, including newbies, veterans and the casual gamer.
Hunting thieves and helping hunt down pk'ers made the community tighter on both ends of the law, at least on europa, but I supect that would be the same all over the shards.

Stratics VeteranAlumniStratics Legend

There are people on all facets of every shard who only have fun if it's at someone else's expense. I pity them tbh.
The trick is to not let them get to you and go find a more congenial spot. The game is vast, there are other spots available for every kind of activity, even just socializing.

Stratics VeteranStratics Legend

Now see ... I left ALL the bulls alone in Delucia this week, cuz I keep thinking someone may wish to tame em, when I slaughter all the cows & goats, for their riblets o beef to feed my blue beetles, yet I DO leave the bulls alive. I also do not kill the bulls in Delucia on Chesapeake nor on Siege.

Tis summer time too, we can run into more self centered jerks in summer than the rest of the year. But basically some folks DO play UO like a one person shooter game, but nothing will nor can change the more self absorbed self centered people. Some folks just seem born or raised up that way me me me is all they seem, to comprehend.

Best thing to do is go back when ya have the place to your self or find more sociable sorts there whom are more aware, that they are not the ONLY player in this game world that matters.

Stratics Veteran

Maybe Im a romantic, but I also remember running to trinsic after being camped by the pack of miner pk's, rounding up a bunch of people and having a blast setting up a trap, and eventually sometimes kill them back. The will of the community to step up too those challenges was far greater then than now, including newbies, veterans and the casual gamer.
Hunting thieves and helping hunt down pk'ers made the community tighter on both ends of the law, at least on europa, but I supect that would be the same all over the shards.

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This was never part of my experience pre-Trammel.

Indeed I remember witnessing a friend being told to not hunt PKs, because it just made them mad. The "community" I witnessed pre-Trammel consisted of PKs and their boot-licking admirers.

EA is committed to retaining the Felucca rules, and indeed this new expansion will have Felucca rules areas.

Given that they are committed to retaining the Felucca rules, that means there has to be something there that isn't anyplace else.

Why? Because there's stuff on pretty much every facet that isn't anyplace else, even if sometimes it isn't terribly obvious, or isn't all-that-useful for experienced players like most of us on these boards.

And I, for one, can't think of anything better than power scrolls. So why not just leave it how it is?

Having said that I don't think I'd mind a, say, 1 in 10 or 1 in 20 chance that a Felucca Harrower also spawns a Trammel Harrower in the same dungeon, that spawns only the Robe. Or that spawned half of the scrolls of a Felucca Harrower. Or that spawned something new. Or something.

Many Trammel players, I think, would simply like to see, and fight, this monster. The other champs are available in the Trammel rules facets, just with different rewards.

One problem though is all the life drain abilities the thing has. You know damn well folks will consciously run into the tentacles to give them life.

So at the end of the day? Easiest, and probably best, to just leave it as is.

You folks who miss the community and general human consideration, come and visit Siege Perilous. I started out on Catskills when I first played UO and then when I returned last year. Each time once I lived in Siege I could never go back. Sure we have our dysfunctional beings with bugs in their program but for the most part the community is great among both evil and good aligned guilds. No shortage of thieves either. There are at least 6 player run "towns" I know of (some more active than others.)

There is a rich warring community with history measured in years, there are a couple of guilds that do crafting. There are folks who do PvM and the dungeon events.

And the guild NEW will help you get a foothold on the shard and help you find a guild that fits your style, if you wish.

You won't find a lot of bank posers outside of Luna but most of them are thieves and PKers anyway. Due to the hostile nature of Siege it is rare you will find crowds of people but you will find there is a rich community and people are there, just not out in the open where they can be killed NEW can get you plugged in.

There is a tournament possibly planned for the weekend of June 20th by the guild TNT that visitors could safely check out. Keep an eye on the SP Stratics Forums for details.

You wanted armor repaired? you went to the forge in North Brit, as a rule, and found a trustworthy smith to do it for you. No charge, as a rule, but it was customary to leave a tip. I can recall one smith, disappearing and never being seen again, seems he had a habit of not giving people their stuff back.
Word spread quickly, and all his skill building was for nothing
Because this was before the day of name changes and power hour and soulstones...all that time was wasted, just to be a griefer for a day or two.

Fondly I remember everyone in the guild dry looting monster corpses, keeping the arrows and bolts we didnt need, to give to McGray and his band of pk-hunters. There were smiths and tailors that donated them armor as well, and our warriors supplied leather.

There were also reds, whom we were quite friendly with. Mostly because they weren't griefing pks, but had actually gone red because they liked the pvp, but had a conscience as well. So when the thief stole from you, even if he was still blue to them, they killed the thief for his steal. And usually returned your stuff to you. I knew 4 of those. They also would guard training zones, and when the notos ran into your field or your BS to make you gray to them so they could kill without a count, the red would kill the noto, even tho he was blue to them.

Good Times. Fair Times. There were some real pricks, even then, for sure.
But the upside is, they had to be able to suffer the consequences of their actions, there truly was some justice back then.
Even the common man, us little people, had a chance and a level playing field.

Rez killlers? I actually met very few of em. For one reason, there was really no reason to do it, they had already looted us the first time. LOL. Now UO has given a reason to rez kill, they get gold deposits everytime they rez kill ya. *shrugs*
One more argument against insurance.

But face it, those days are gone. When we ALL lived in Fel, there was balance, because even the pks realized that sooner or later they would need that miner/smith's goods, so for the most part they left em alone, even out of the guard zone. Now?, it doesnt matter,. because the pk has everything insured/blessed and it never wears out anyhow. Plus the blues outnumbered the reds, so unless you were alone and lost and looked weak, you had a fair chance of chatting a while and going on your way.

When the split came, I've said this before, it ruined Fel because all that remained (as a general rule) was the pvp'ers, who didnt mind going red, because now, there is no downside to it. So naturally, if some fresh blue blood comes thru a gate there will be a fight over the meal .
And that's fine, it's the way it's designed to be now.
And I digress and go OT as usual.

But yeah, in the old days, the anti-socials did get ostracized, Ive seen the old time smiths turn em away and refuse to make/repair stuff for em.
I've seen vendor shop owners ban em from their shops. (back then, that meant you couldnt buy-there was no house sign vending).
Now, there is no justice, all you can do is tolerate it or go elsewhere.

And for those that are looking for some grief free entertainment, if you are thinking of moving, move to Legends. Plenty of housing, and plenty of good peeps. Look for anyone in the ELV Alliance. [/shameless plug]

ps And if Omnius is who I think he is, I have watched him handle himself while being trash talked, and he handles it well. Nothing smart, nothing rude..always the well spoken one.
Much like the old school pvp'er we grew up with

Stratics Veteran

You folks who miss the community and general human consideration, come and visit Siege Perilous. I started out on Catskills when I first played UO and then when I returned last year. Each time once I lived in Siege I could never go back. Sure we have our dysfunctional beings with bugs in their program but for the most part the community is great among both evil and good aligned guilds. No shortage of thieves either. There are at least 6 player run "towns" I know of (some more active than others.)

There is a rich warring community with history measured in years, there are a couple of guilds that do crafting. There are folks who do PvM and the dungeon events.

And the guild NEW will help you get a foothold on the shard and help you find a guild that fits your style, if you wish.

You won't find a lot of bank posers outside of Luna but most of them are thieves and PKers anyway. Due to the hostile nature of Siege it is rare you will find crowds of people but you will find there is a rich community and people are there, just not out in the open where they can be killed NEW can get you plugged in.

There is a tournament possibly planned for the weekend of June 20th by the guild TNT that visitors could safely check out. Keep an eye on the SP Stratics Forums for details.

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Unfortunately, My experience on siege was not such. I did join NEW, and I was swifty removed when on my 4th day 2 Undead rp pks attacked me, and I swifty got them killed(superior skills and tactics). I took all their potions, bandages and their weapons(left only their armor).

Nobody had made me aware that new folks were supposed to just die and get ressed and be left on their way. Eventually, the slow skill gain bored me to death and though i enjoyed walking everywhere I simply returned to my 4 prodo shards.

Stratics Veteran

Indeed I remember witnessing a friend being told to not hunt PKs, because it just made them mad. The "community" I witnessed pre-Trammel consisted of PKs and their boot-licking admirers.

-Galen's player

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My first day in UO, we got 100 gold. My first 100 gold was stolen under 1 minute after coming to play UO for the first time. I laughed so hard, thinking, finally a challenge.

I remembered that guys name and guild affiliation. within 2 weeks, I was the bane of Dead Presidents. And my name would haunt them until the day they finally recruited me. Those thieves and reds found themselves on the wrong end of a power gamer back then but the experience was always in fun. only 2 guys in their guild ever trash talked me. That trash talk usually came in the form of o0o0o0o0 o0o o0o0o0o

Stratics Veteran

You gold buyers crack me up, you're a big part of the reason there's no community.

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I am no gold buyer. I've played since the days when 1million sold on ebay for 60 bucks. When 10 mongbats could kill a newbie and when running ones mouth could potentially force you to start over on another shard.

Stratics VeteranAlumni

Unfortunately, My experience on siege was not such. I did join NEW, and I was swifty removed when on my 4th day 2 Undead rp pks attacked me, and I swifty got them killed(superior skills and tactics). I took all their potions, bandages and their weapons(left only their armor).

Nobody had made me aware that new folks were supposed to just die and get ressed and be left on their way. Eventually, the slow skill gain bored me to death and though i enjoyed walking everywhere I simply returned to my 4 prodo shards.

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There is a book you have to read that has the rules in it that you must agree to before you can join NEW. If you didn't know the rules, it's your own fault. And just so everyone knows, that's NOT what the rules say. You CAN defend yourself but you CANNOT go back and kill people AFTER the fight is over for revenge.

Stratics VeteranStratics Legend

So i decided to work on a tamer i began in 99. I went to jhelom farms in trammel as I had heard that this was the place to train on bulls.

Well, Let me tell you folks about my experience.

First, 1 guy had one tamed and was training it on smaller animals. he declined multiple requests that he leave the server line for just a moment with it, even gates. Even when offered a million gold to do so.

Second, another guy shows up and just stands there killing bulls as they spawn. Saying all sorts of rude things. Refusing to leave, even when politely asked AND offered a million gold check to do so.

Next, I deal with some guy spamming some unfriendly statements but him i just use ignore on.

Unfriendly UO player #2 declined dueling mage on mage or any template on any template.

What has happened to the folks in this game? There is no friendliness, no courtesy. Trammel has become a danged cesspool. I found myself taming on a newbie tamer eventually in peace in fel. I've be attacked once but left alone when the less savory citizen of sosaria realized I was taming naked with nothing on me and no insured property.

I've had some bad experiences in UO. But folks in Trammel have convinced me that UO is single player only as soon as you leave the land of the red gates.

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Ominus I'm sorry you had to endure such utter nonsense! Unfortunately this type of arsehole player exsists on every shard. We've even had a few on Legends that we've dispatched, but for the most part Legends is friendly tight knit community.

Until EAMythic decides to rectify their anal-cranial displacment, and decides to actually DO SOMETHING about tram greifers there isn't much we can do.

Which brings me to the utter stupidity that is EAMythic's griefer policy. WHY in GOD'S GOOD GREEN EARTH should the "victim" be the one forced to leave the dungeon-champspawn-peerless-bank etc. This is essenctually kissing the griefer's asciicode, because they get what they want: the location all to themselves.

Maybe its time EAMythic take a page from my favorite sport..Ice hockey. In Hockey when you act like a horse's rear end and do stuff like cross-checking or fighting. They have a little box, its called a PENALTY BOX! When you misbehave you go into the box serve your penalty then you're allow to rejoin the game. However some hockeyplayers tend to be neanderthals and need more severe punishment to drive the point home for this we have a Game Misconduct which causes said bonehead to be ejected from the game. Also they can be suspended for any number of games up to the entire season.

I wish EAMythic would adopt something like this to handle Griefers. The punishment for the actions is set down in black and white there is no if, ands or buts.

I'm sorry if I'm all up on my soapbox but this is an issue that has been a long time pet-peeve of mine.

At least in fel you can pk the bastards!! (unless they're running cheats and hacks...I'm not gonna open THAT bag of worms)

You folks who miss the community and general human consideration, come and visit Siege Perilous. I started out on Catskills when I first played UO and then when I returned last year. Each time once I lived in Siege I could never go back. Sure we have our dysfunctional beings with bugs in their program but for the most part the community is great among both evil and good aligned guilds. No shortage of thieves either. There are at least 6 player run "towns" I know of (some more active than others.)

There is a rich warring community with history measured in years, there are a couple of guilds that do crafting. There are folks who do PvM and the dungeon events.

And the guild NEW will help you get a foothold on the shard and help you find a guild that fits your style, if you wish.

You won't find a lot of bank posers outside of Luna but most of them are thieves and PKers anyway. Due to the hostile nature of Siege it is rare you will find crowds of people but you will find there is a rich community and people are there, just not out in the open where they can be killed NEW can get you plugged in.

There is a tournament possibly planned for the weekend of June 20th by the guild TNT that visitors could safely check out. Keep an eye on the SP Stratics Forums for details.

Stratics VeteranAlumni

Not being a troll, genuinely curious here, since I'm spending more time on stratics it seems...
Why is it everytime someone/anyone from Siege pokes their head in and says anything people jump their butts?
Just because their shard/playstyle may be a bit different than ours, doesn't make them nor their opinions any less valuable.
If a post had been made saying "Come on to Sonoma/Great Lakes/Lake Austin/Origin/etc" no one would have cared...
Why the siege hatred? All you haters can pm me your answers, and let the thread get back ontopic.

Stratics Veteran

Not being a troll, genuinely curious here, since I'm spending more time on stratics it seems...
Why is it everytime someone/anyone from Siege pokes their head in and says anything people jump their butts?
Just because their shard/playstyle may be a bit different than ours, doesn't make them nor their opinions any less valuable.
If a post had been made saying "Come on to Sonoma/Great Lakes/Lake Austin/Origin/etc" no one would have cared...
Why the siege hatred? All you haters can pm me your answers, and let the thread get back ontopic.

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