comment on comment

Submitted by the Grand Infidel of Kaffiristan(Australia), Jun 27, 2012 at 23:02

re Katyn, Ianus writes:

"The problem is not who was originally blamed for it but rather who first put the affair into circulation and to achieve what goals?

So the fact that Stalin blamed the Germans for his massacre of 20,000 Polish officers is incionsequential? Ok, if that's how you see it.

"You e.g. repeated anti-communist slogans I had read in Nazi literature without any pangs of conscience."

You mean me personally - I have repeated anti-Communist slogans found in Nazi litwerature? Amazing, as I've never,ever read any Nazi anti-Communist propaganda in my entire life. I will admit to having more than a teaspoon of Geerman blood in my veins - so perhaps it's a genetic thing then - the ability to spot a crock and say so? What was it I was alledged to have repeated that is so offensive to communists?

"Do you think that everybody is so happy with repeating Dr. Goebbels' speeches and guidelines ?"

I don't know - you would have to ask them when and if that occurred.

I can see why you didn't mention the accompanying text on that icon link. Which showed in how much esteem he was held in by all Russians.

"A scandal flared up due to the incident with an icon portraying Joseph Stalin put up in the Church of Grand Princess St. Olga, Equal-to-the-Apostles, in Strelna, under St. Petersburg.
Following the indignant response of church authorities the 67-year-old Father Superior Evstafy, who had put the icon up, finally had to remove it.
Officially the scandalous icon is dedicated to St. Matrona of Moscow. However, it depicts a legendary incident when the generalissimo supposedly visited the saint to ask her for advice: whether Moscow had to be defended from fascists.

The absurd situation attracted "Communists of St. Petersburg" who took the news of Father Evstafy as a sky-sign and printed about three thousand icons depicting the Kremlin tyrant alone and with a halo above his head [above- MK] and distributed the icons in the city."

Perfect.

"What is "Western" nowadays? Demographic decline,degradation of school system, breakdown of family life, corruption scandals, addictions, hostile immigration, hedonism, ignorance of one's identity and past ? If this is being "Western" , then yes, we are Western and I do hate it !"

Jungian psychology will show you we see the world how we are - and not as it is. We project our own clarity - or confusion and frustration - onto the outside world and other people. Every society has its ills - but people not taking responsibilities for their own state of mind is not your responsibility. So why do you feel to hate it? I'm not going to tell you how to suck eggs but whatever is happening in your world is pretty much beyond your personal control - the most logical thing to do is to change how you experience it. But why are Poles now flirting with the devil and experimenting with excess? Is it because before that, they had no freedom to choose to do the wrong thing by themselves? It really is a learning process for society as a whole. Extremes are tested, people find they lead nowhere - and return to their roots. The same thing happens everywhere. Though I have to say the one thing in that list which should not be allowed of course is hostile immigration.

"...Ianus: "History cannot be changed"???"Now you jump to something we never touched upon to tell me that "time can't go backwards" as if you were afraid of admitting that the evil the US and the Moslem hordes on its payroll perpetrated could be repaired and everything could be restored to the previous status"

No trap at all, nothing to do with muslim hordes, the atomic bomb, nazis, communists, the moon landing - OR THE FACT THAT YOU GOT OUT OF BED THIS MORNING - I simply said 'time can't go backwards' . To make it clearer I'll extrapolate that to 'don't cry over spilt milk'.

GIK: "I'm not sure how we go from my statement i.e. 'the past is unchanging' to 'nothing has consequences' .Can you explain your reasoning?<

Ianus "It's up to you to explain to me why you are looking for excuses not to blame the US for all the evil it has done to Christianity ! Or maybe you will blame the USSR, Stalin and communism and not the US for the destroyed and desecrated churches of Northern Cyprus and Kosovo and Islamization of teh Balkans ?"

I'm simply stating a law of physics. No more than that. You now make it your business to somehow make it out that I am looking for excuses not to blame all the evil in the world to Americans. Very strange.

"Second, I have never heard that the military stationed in Estonia was added to Estonia's population census.If they were , then Estonia must have been the most militarized region in the world- even more militarized than Northern Cyprus."

Ok - so until you actually know the facts - the rest of your statements are just assumptions as'well. The only figure I can find is that in 1992 - well after the fall of communism in "some 25,000 Russian troops were reported left in Estonia, the smallest contingent in the Baltic states." So presumeably there were a lot more Soviet troops located there before then.

". I can e.g. enumerate several factories in the neighborhood which the Americans bought , ruined and then shut down. There are various ways of eliminating competition."

The Chinese almost use this as a matter of policy - yet you make no mention of that. I have seen this happen here as well - in fact today I'm going to a factory that has been shut down - nearly completely due' to lack of insight by its former American owners. They are the ones who lost out big time - not the locals.

"What a contrast to the two decades before 1970. In 1946 - 929 000 ; in 1970 - 1 350 000! Incredible 69% ! If everything was so bad in the USSR for the poor Estonians as you and they assert, then why was their demography so good ?"

Quite simple - internal Soviet migrations - primarilly from Russia - followed by Ukraine. Does the figure you give include the 80000 Estos deported to gulags?

"In your "most prosperous economy in Europe" it is more profitable to clean latrines in Australia or the UK than work in an Estonian office"

Why does the world seem so bleak to you - why do you always picture the worst outcome? You really should get that seen to - it helps no one - and clouds your experience of this amazing life we each have. I know of no Estonians cleaning latrines in Australia. The ones I do know ave professional careers or have been on working holidays - doing fruitpicking, carpentry work ec - using skills they obtained in Estonia.

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".