Originally posted by relocator
Just in case you Mason's have a change of heart... I offer this sincerely...

No idea why any of us would have a change of heart. Bro. Ford
summed it up quite nicely in your previous post. Did you take issue with anything he had to say? I mean, you're the one who brought his quote into
the discussion…

I want Mason's to know I do not judge them. I'm a sinner and would judge myself first if that was the case.
I want to understand why these rumors have been around for such a long time. I find it interesting as well as the answers the Mason's give and enjoy
entertaining those who find these discussions a joke.

Pope Leo XIII, Dall’Alto (# 2), Oct. 15, 1890: “It is needless now to put the Masonic sects upon their trial. They are already judged; their ends,
their means, their doctrines, and their action, are all known with indisputable certainty. Possessed by the spirit of Satan, whose instrument they
are, they burn like him with a deadly and implacable hatred of Jesus Christ and of His work; and they endeavor by every means to overthrow and fetter
it.”1

Oh, boy, the Pope does not like me either. Honestly, I never even thought twice when I realized that Roman Catholicism was not for me (and this was
long before I became a Mason). I found it to be dogmatic and hypocritical.

Humanum Genus criticises a number of principles, for example the idea that popular sovereignty is the source of all rights and that man should bend to
no authority other than himself:
Humanum Genus criticises a number of principles, for example the idea that popular sovereignty is the source of all rights and that man should bend to
no authority other than himself:

Then come their doctrines of politics, in which the naturalists lay down that all men have the same right, and are in every respect of equal and like
condition; that each one is naturally free; that no one has the right to command another; that it is an act of violence to require men to obey any
authority other than that which is obtained from themselves.[3][emphasis added]

Finally it condemns what it sees as the Masonic idea of the total separation of religion and state:

It is held also that the State should be without God; that in the various forms of religion there is no reason why one should have precedence of
another; and that they are all to occupy the same place.

Leo XIII's denunciation of Freemasonry should be seen in context of his examination of socialism (Quod Apostolici Muneris), his defence of Christian
marriage (Arcanum) and on the role of government (Diuturnum). Because of the supposed secrecy in Freemasonry, it was believed by the Roman Catholic
Church to have an enormous amount of secret discipline of its members – which was seen by the Pope as enslavement. So by this definition, although
individual Masons may be decent people, they were being led to do evil things.

Originally posted by relocator
Then come their doctrines of politics, in which the naturalists lay down that all men have the same right, and are in every respect of equal and like
condition; that each one is naturally free; that no one has the right to command another; that it is an act of violence to require men to obey any
authority other than that which is obtained from themselves.

I so glad the loony Pope Leo thinks that man should not have freedom to live without oppression.

Finally it condemns what it sees as the Masonic idea of the total separation of religion and state:

It is held also that the State should be without God; that in the various forms of religion there is no reason why one should have precedence of
another; and that they are all to occupy the same place.

I understand what your saying but logic does indeed dictate that there is color to the blind man he is told of the concept of color so to him color
exists, even if his perception of it is different because he can't see he knows there is color.

If there weren't words then what are we typing???, of course everything can be seen arbitrary but again if we do we end up with the concept of the
core being nothingness.

As far as the thesis on the understanding of God it's not logic that truly defines whether or not one believes in such a creator but faith and faith
is a derivative of love not logic.

Besides the core belief system of man/women can never be logic at step one because we come to the understanding of logic through perception and what
others before us perceived and through that (the begining of man) we came to a united conclusion through our perceptive of what constitues logic and
we evolved from there.

Besides if man just stuck to the notion that everything is logic based on a scientific standard of his day we would still think the world is flat
there would be no cure for polio.

Man needs to think outside the box in some cases and not rely on what a consensus of his peers deem as logic at that time because if that were the
case man would never invent anything, hence my statement about the world being flat and polio.

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