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It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

I am quite new to playing the piano, or rather experienced, depending on how you look at it. I have had a piano for about five years and I often play on it, but I usually only play this one piece, because it's my son's favourite. See my blog for explanation (with video of me playing):

I want to learn to play the piano properly, but I also prefer doing it the hard way, learning the basics by skipping them first... Am I doing it completetly wrong, would I have been a much better pianist in all respects if I had done the basics first? Or is it possible to take the hard route if I practice enough?

I suppose my question is: can you learn to play the piano like a child would, without books, just by listening? (What does it take?)

Just some more comments. This piece could work as first piece, it's seems not nearly as hard as that "idiot" that tried to play the Wanderer fantasy as first piece . I don't play this piece but it sounds like pretty straightforward 2-voice counterpoint.

Nevertheless, I recommend you to get a teacher as I believe you could have played this much better if you had some guidance these 5 years

I want to learn to play the piano properly, but I also prefer doing it the hard way, learning the basics by skipping them first... Am I doing it completetly wrong, would I have been a much better pianist in all respects if I had done the basics first?

Yes and Yes.

Five Years ? Are you kidding me ?

It appears you just like to fool around on the piano instead of actually doing the work (regular guided practice) to learn properly.

And that is fine but don't kid yourself. Learning to actually play takes a much more committed effort than that. Even with a committed effort there are no guarantees.

For my money, you do not have a chance to become a good player based on what you have accomplished in the last five years.

Sorry, to be so harsh ... but I assume you came for the truth. I would be doing you a disservice if I were to encourage you to keep doing what you are doing. It won't work.

Just some more comments. This piece could work as first piece, it's seems not nearly as hard as that "idiot" that tried to play the Wanderer fantasy as first piece . I don't play this piece but it sounds like pretty straightforward 2-voice counterpoint.

Nevertheless, I recommend you to get a teacher as I believe you could have played this much better if you had some guidance these 5 years

+1

Played it better by now, and have some other pieces, even more from Bach, as part of a repertoire, and with some skills and knowledge to learn more more quickly.

It's not clear to me though that you have the desire? It takes a lot of hard work with practice when you just might wonder why you bother.

Just some more comments. This piece could work as first piece, it's seems not nearly as hard as that "idiot" that tried to play the Wanderer fantasy as first piece . I don't play this piece but it sounds like pretty straightforward 2-voice counterpoint.

I cannot think of a less apt word than "straightforward" to describe the Goldberg variations. Don't be deceived.

Originally Posted By: Jostein

I want to learn to play the piano properly, but I also prefer doing it the hard way, learning the basics by skipping them first... Am I doing it completetly wrong?

Just some more comments. This piece could work as first piece, it's seems not nearly as hard as that "idiot" that tried to play the Wanderer fantasy as first piece . I don't play this piece but it sounds like pretty straightforward 2-voice counterpoint.

Nevertheless, I recommend you to get a teacher as I believe you could have played this much better if you had some guidance these 5 years

I am quite new to playing the piano, or rather experienced, depending on how you look at it. I have had a piano for about five years and I often play on it, but I usually only play this one piece, because it's my son's favourite. See my blog for explanation (with video of me playing):

I want to learn to play the piano properly, but I also prefer doing it the hard way, learning the basics by skipping them first... Am I doing it completetly wrong, would I have been a much better pianist in all respects if I had done the basics first? Or is it possible to take the hard route if I practice enough?

I suppose my question is: can you learn to play the piano like a child would, without books, just by listening? (What does it take?)

I hope I am not too naive... Thanks.

Welcome. I think it is beautiful you would, or one would, think to pick up playing an instrument (or any art) because was inspired by some moment in life or a birth of a child or something like that. As that pushes more towards actually having a passion for it, rather than just trying to impress upon others that one plays or does something just to impress (or to be pushed, let say by parents).

I picked up piano late in life as well and was moved by Clair de Lune by Debussy (yes i know, I never heard of it till I heard it play in Oceans Eleven movie, Yes. I am in the dark about these things) so I took up piano to learn it. Without any technique. Without any instruction. I took a year to try to learn it haphazardly.Thenk I got a teacher to help me with it and I spent another let say year and a half to try to master it. Even today , I still don't play it as well as I should, but you play your piece much better than how I play Clair de Lune after 3 or 4 years.

My point is, I did the most I can to try to do the best at the piece. and unfortunately, this will be my best I will ever get at the piece. But I explored my options to play it well.

You can too, just explore the options you have out there to maximize your passion for this piece or any other future piece. You may play this one very well. but the next one may require a little formal instruction. You will need to learn foundational skills. but luckily you can do that while you explore your favorite pieces to try to play. and that is what I do, as I laern some more skill I go back to Clair de lune and try to apply it.good luck

When someone says they want to learn a piece, they think it's just a matter of learning the notes on the page, the dynamics and articulations, etc. But any one piece is actually played through many, many other pieces. The harder the piece, the more other pieces you have to play to learn the necessary skills to play that piece. When you play the Goldberg Variations, you're not just playing the Goldberg Variations, but all of the Inventions, Fugues and other Baroque pieces you've worked on, as well as those scales you worked on in Classical works. And all those pieces built upon the Little Preludes and other shorter Baroque works you did, etc.

One never starts a sentence with a period, and you don't want to start playing piano with the piece that you should have been working toward these past 5 years, by working on it. Because by now you would have learned so much more music that would actually get you to the point where you can play what you want to play - and do it well.

The way you've been doing it, you won't get there. It hasn't happened in 5 years. It's not just the hard way, it's no way at all, IMO.

the good news is you caught your problem pretty quickly, I played guitar for 40 years and never learned much. Taking up an instrument is a serious activity even if you just want to play for leisure. So No 1 is to make sure you are committed and seek out a tried and true method like Fundamental Keys or Alfred All In One Course. Best of all is to get a teacher but for many I know that's not an option.

One of the most common posts on this forum is some person claiming everything below their favorite piece (usually a fairly advanced work) is dull for them. This astounds me for many reasons but the main one is if someone says they really appreciate a great work how come they can't appreciate the genius of something that's technically much easier to play. I think most of those people are having themselves on equating playing a difficult piece advancing themselves up some imaginary competitive ranking. However I know this isn't you as I read your blog, how the delight in playing two octave notes can give rise to a response. You will find many wonderful pieces in the beginner repertoire including Bach. Don't give up on your aria but spend a while learning easier works and build up all that is required to do it justice.

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I thought I understood endurance sport; then I took up piano XXXVII-8-XXX

I was self-taught / noodled around for over 25 years. Never developed, always got frustrated that I couldn't play relatively simple pieces I wanted, never wanted to "work hard."

I got a teacher three years ago. I've learnt to play wonderful pieces; I can sight read pieces at a harder level than ones I couldn't play at all three years ago; my musicality is much improved. In short, I'm a pianist. All because I take lessons and put in some reasonable practice time - which isn't much more than I did when I was getting nowhere.

When someone says they want to learn a piece, they think it's just a matter of learning the notes on the page, the dynamics and articulations, etc. But any one piece is actually played through many, many other pieces. The harder the piece, the more other pieces you have to play to learn the necessary skills to play that piece. When you play the Goldberg Variations, you're not just playing the Goldberg Variations, but all of the Inventions, Fugues and other Baroque pieces you've worked on, as well as those scales you worked on in Classical works. And all those pieces built upon the Little Preludes and other shorter Baroque works you did, etc.

One never starts a sentence with a period, and you don't want to start playing piano with the piece that you should have been working toward these past 5 years, by working on it. Because by now you would have learned so much more music that would actually get you to the point where you can play what you want to play - and do it well.

The way you've been doing it, you won't get there. It hasn't happened in 5 years. It's not just the hard way, it's no way at all, IMO.

This is an excellent post.

Welcome to the forums Jostein. As Morodienne said, if this is how far you have gotten in 5 years, you are spinning your wheels and going nowhere. I don't mean to sound harsh, but frankly, your technique is sorely wanting. If you continue to play with that much tension and extra movement, you run the risk of hurting yourself. Also, your reading of the music is incorrect. These are both problems a teacher can correct. If there are barriers to your working with a teacher, then try working with a beginners book. Alfred's seems to be quite popular here. The old adage, "You can't build a building without first setting a strong foundation" applies here.

If you continue the way you are going, you sadly won't make much progress. Fumbling around without structure is not the hard work. The real hard work is starting at the beginning and gradually developing your technique and musical understanding.

Bach's Goldberg Aria may be short but is not a beginner's piece. I think some beginners think playing the piano just means "pushing the buttons at the right time." There is so much more to making beautiful music. You can learn much of this from a good course of books or better yet, from a good teacher. You must decide if you want to keep noodling around or make real progress and beautiful music by working hard.

Morodiene has said pretty much everything I would have said, but I'd also like to add:

Quote:

I suppose my question is: can you learn to play the piano like a child would, without books, just by listening? (What does it take?)

Children don't learn to do anything in a vacuum. Most have parents, and by the age of 5 (in the US), all have teachers. If you put a kid in a sterile environment with absolutely no interaction, and wait 20 years, you'd be hard-pressed to find a person who could function in society. Yes, they might learn to walk on their own -- maybe. But talk? Not with any complexity or sophistication. Read? Absolutely not. Think abstractly? Unlikely. Most importantly -- perform any precision skill to a high degree? Not in a million years; you have a better chance of winning the lottery twice immediately after having been struck by lightning twice.

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Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

I agree with everyone else here, though, that you would benefit more (and more quickly) from directed study through a teacher, which would establish a playing foundation and progressively teach a set of inter-related skills that would help you not only with the piece you love, but with every other piece.

Along the way you would learn that the repertoire for solo piano -- in all genres and at all skill levels -- is vast, beautiful, and unceasingly rewarding. Why limit yourself to one piece, no matter how beautiful it is?

It's about the journey, not the destination, and I think you might love this journey, should you choose to take it.

I want to learn to play the piano properly, but I also prefer doing it the hard way, learning the basics by skipping them first... Am I doing it completetly wrong, would I have been a much better pianist in all respects if I had done the basics first? Or is it possible to take the hard route if I practice enough?

Let me switch this up on you to try and elucidate the absurdity of the logic. If you wanted to learn to play golf (a similarly neurophysiologically-complex skill), but had never before swung a club, do you think you would make any headway at all by "skipping the basics" and immediately taking a set of clubs to the 18th hole of a world-class course and just "winging it?" You likely would make very little progress and somewhere around 99% of your time would have been effectively wasted in terms of progressing towards any goals you may have had (simple and subjective fun of course excluded). Substitute golf with the learning of literally any other discipline and you have the same result. The basics aren't optional, but it is up to you as to whether or not you learn them and choose to progress or not.

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses. I realise the absurdity of my logic, yes. One cannot skip the basic, whatever one does -- and the best are often the ones who practice the basics the most, not the ones who tries to be fancy all the time.

I am sorry if I insulted anyone, it was not my intention to troll or insult, I just wanted to share the joy of discovering music, discovering the piano, like a child, without guidance. But that is to learn hardly anything at all -- and even basic guidance can give you more pleasures. I understand that.

I might have exaggerated my piano experience for literary effect. I wanted to show how much my sons means to me. But it doesn't matter. He would probably be even more impressed by me actually playing the piece rather being stuck on the same notes for ages.

I will not take lessons now, I cannot afford it. Hopefully, I will come back here one day and show everyone that I have progressed to the level where I actually can play.

I don't think that Jostein wasted time in those five years. There is a beautiful bond between a child and parent, and there is the pure and simple joy of playing one note, and another note. So many people are after achievement and perfection, that it often gets lost. In fact, Jostein has something to teach us for anyone who has lost it.

To some degree I agree that we need to get foundations to what we do. But there are many roads leading there. If you play a piece not be note, reveling in each note, and you end up knowing some or all of these notes, then you have learned something. Whatever has been learned will be part of that future foundation.

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses. I realise the absurdity of my logic, yes. One cannot skip the basic, whatever one does -- and the best are often the ones who practice the basics the most, not the ones who tries to be fancy all the time.

I see nothing absurd in what you did. I will also argue that you got at basic things in what you did. In fact, some people who play basic pieces are so intent on the final results that they skip the basics that are supposed to be learned through doing that.

We are all wired differently. You revel in the sound of a single note or a few notes together. Those are important and good attitudes.

Even the fanciest piece comprises basics, so we need to have basic things to get at advanced playing, but we can also discover basic things through the advanced music.

I was given a piano and a book of sonatinas to start with and self-teach when I was a kid. This may have been absurd, but there was nothing absurd with what I did with it. Years later when I went back to piano and started to study music, I was surprised what I had picked up.

Hello Jostein,Many of people told many things before about your playing, so I will omit this.The truth is - if you want to do anything in your life good (I don't mean becoming a virstuoso in that case, but just playing in a proper way) you need to get a teacher.If you really cannot aford for the teacher, the best thing you can do for yourself is to watch youtube videos - there are many of them posted there, recorded by professional teachers for begginers, starting from the very basing things like piano position. Just watch the videos, and spend like a week on each one. After a month go back to the previous one and find the things that you are not doing properly. This will give you the best learning-free source on the piano.You should skip the videos for advanced pianists, because these wich are made (not many of them) you will not understand to much of it. What I mean is - it will be like a racedriving lesson for a man, who onle once in his previous live has driven the car, and is still thinking how to change the gear. Of course you can watch just for fun

But stick to the begginers videos - there some good posted by Pianist Magazine - however they are related to the notes included in them, but you will learn something at least.

And start learning some really easy pieces and hand movements. You know, for the pieces like Aria, which seems to be easy, they are not Sorry, I cannot help you with begginers book available in USA, but you will find a lot of info here. Watch videos, and learn from them.If you would started 5 years ago with this, you would have been much much further than now.

Do not be discouraged by the answears - as we love piano and love people to play piano we are trying to help them. But you know, the truth is really awful for you, unfortunately. But - now you are at the point when you can change everything and can learn piano better than what you presented to us. Just, do not do it fast. It will kill your dedication. Slow and patient training is the fastest way of learning the piano

I only partially agree with most people here. Of course in five years of piano instructions with a teacher you would certainly be a good intermediate player by now... BUT in five years you would have achieved a lot without a teacher, too! Sorry if this sounds harsh. Five years is a lot of time and even if you had spent it learning pop songs by ear, you would be able to play an awful lot of pop music by now.

I'm afraid you need a structured method, or at least a clear goal, and in the absence of a teacher you certainly need the help of books, online courses, other people's advice, you name it. Best wishes for your piano journey!

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Diana & Wally - Yamaha W110BWMartha Argerich... is an incarnation of the artistic metaphor of the "eternal feminine" that draws us upward. (Sergio Sablich)

There really is no alternative to laying down a solid technical foundation. Five years is plenty of time to do that, but it has to come from the bottom up. If you try the top down approach you'll do nothing but compound your errors.You've clearly got a feel for the aria and I'm sure you could be playing it very well in five years time if you did maybe an hour a day of basic piano technique and simpler pieces. If you can afford a teacher, even if only for the first six months, that will speed the process up quite a bit. The main problem with teaching yourself is all the time that gets wasted, years sometimes, where a good teacher could put you right in a few minutes.I've just had a read through the aria and it's so beautiful that I might have a go at it myself soon.

First of all, there are no easy ways to learn the piano. There are only two ways to learn the piano: the hard way and the impossible way. Having the patience to go through the basics and taking the time to develop them solidly is the hard way. You have chosen the impossible way.

Maybe it's just me but I get fired up when people don't want to put in the hard work and go straight to Rachmaninov's piano concerto no. 3 for instance, because they just love that piece and just cannot play anything else but that piece. I'm sorry but such people has no appreciation to piano or music at all. Piano is a lot more than just a piece. Music is a lot more than just a piece.

Anyway, all I can say to you is good luck with your life. You have a better chance of winning the lottery ticket. Don't waste anymore of your time on the piano.

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I suck and it's ok. I'm playing music and that's all that matters.

First of all, there are no easy ways to learn the piano. There are only two ways to learn the piano: the hard way and the impossible way. Having the patience to go through the basics and taking the time to develop them solidly is the hard way. You have chosen the impossible way.

Maybe it's just me but I get fired up when people don't want to put in the hard work and go straight to Rachmaninov's piano concerto no. 3 for instance, because they just love that piece and just cannot play anything else but that piece. I'm sorry but such people has no appreciation to piano or music at all. Piano is a lot more than just a piece. Music is a lot more than just a piece.

Anyway, all I can say to you is good luck with your life. You have a better chance of winning the lottery ticket. Don't waste anymore of your time on the piano.

wow. butt-hurt much?you say you're 40 years old you think you should know by now life isnt just black and white? Maybe someone likes to learn a piece because he just loves or appreciates that piece. so he tinkers on a piano till he can get the gist of the melody out. or Just like some guy who was inspired to paint a picture of something even though he isnt trained in art. Just out of pure joy in their life for something. The OP mentions in his blog his son beams whenever he plays the piece. and that is all that really matters at that moment. He asked for some advice on maybe what he could do. If you cant empathize with that , then I dont know what motive you have for trying to learn piano.

If you cant empathize with that , then I dont know what motive you have for trying to learn piano.

Having empathy and having the motive of learning the piano are 2 different things. By the way, what is your motive of learning the piano? I'd agree if you said if I hadn't anything positive to contribute to this discussion I shouldn't post a reply at all.

I am almost 40 years old. I don't know a lot of things but I have experienced the learning process of a few things. Maybe I am the dumb one but what I learned is that learning something takes time and patience. Sometimes you can get away with skipping a step or two, but you can never skip ALL the steps.

I don't have a problem when a person just want to tinkle with Prokofiev's concerto and that is all that person wants to do. But I cannot understand when someone equate that as 'learning'. What would you say to someone who hasn't the basics of science but have already dived into quantum physics for 5 years? Cheer them on?

Look, this person has 2 choices with regards to piano. Keep doing what he/she wants to do (and this is not learning but hey, your life your choice and whatever makes you happy) or restart from the basics and really learn.

I know this is a place for at lot of people to get support and share and feel good. This is not the place to vent frustration on other people. Remove my membership. I am outta here.

Good luck to you all and the very best with your lives.

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I suck and it's ok. I'm playing music and that's all that matters.