So I didn't realise how much people argued over this topic, I assumed from the fact that 5x5 one of the most popular strength training programmes around that this wasn't even an issue. In fact I plan on doing squats and deadlifts in the same day once I've got all my powerlifting gear to my new house, so anyway, what's your opinion on this subject?

klaatu21 wrote:sensai ross, forgive me for doubting you and myself

Mini Forklift Ⓥ wrote:There's only one thing I'm riding at 6am, and it's not a bike!

I don't see why not, as long as you're not going heavy on both. Obviously you won't be able to pull your max on DL after doing heavy squats, but you can always go for volume or power.

Base 5x5 (assuming you mean Stronglifts?) and Starting Strength are intended mostly for novices. Once you get up into intermediate weights, both programs (and Madcow) recommend backing the squats down to a lighter weight on deadlift day.

blabbate wrote:I don't see why not, as long as you're not going heavy on both. Obviously you won't be able to pull your max on DL after doing heavy squats, but you can always go for volume or power.

Base 5x5 (assuming you mean Stronglifts?) and Starting Strength are intended mostly for novices. Once you get up into intermediate weights, both programs (and Madcow) recommend backing the squats down to a lighter weight on deadlift day.

Ahh yeah I was referring to strong lifts but what I'm planning on doing is a 5/3/1 style routine but just mash squats and deads into the same day, I wouldn't necessarily call myself a novice and I've done 5/3/1 + 5x5 before. You're right it's going to be difficult when it gets heavy, maybe I'll do them separate days after all, cheers for the insight blabbate

klaatu21 wrote:sensai ross, forgive me for doubting you and myself

Mini Forklift Ⓥ wrote:There's only one thing I'm riding at 6am, and it's not a bike!

vegan_rossco wrote:Ahh yeah I was referring to strong lifts but what I'm planning on doing is a 5/3/1 style routine but just mash squats and deads into the same day, I wouldn't necessarily call myself a novice and I've done 5/3/1 + 5x5 before. You're right it's going to be difficult when it gets heavy, maybe I'll do them separate days after all, cheers for the insight blabbate

I think the warning against squats and DL in the same workout is mostly for people who expect to be able to lift heavy on both and end up progressing more slowly than they expected, hurting themselves, or overtraining. Just like with everything else, there's no hard and fast rule that fits everyone.

You sound like you know what you're doing, so I wouldn't worry too much. When I did 5/3/1, I sometimes did squat assistance on DL day or vice versa and it didn't seem to do any harm.

vegan_rossco wrote:Ahh yeah I was referring to strong lifts but what I'm planning on doing is a 5/3/1 style routine but just mash squats and deads into the same day, I wouldn't necessarily call myself a novice and I've done 5/3/1 + 5x5 before. You're right it's going to be difficult when it gets heavy, maybe I'll do them separate days after all, cheers for the insight blabbate

I think the warning against squats and DL in the same workout is mostly for people who expect to be able to lift heavy on both and end up progressing more slowly than they expected, hurting themselves, or overtraining. Just like with everything else, there's no hard and fast rule that fits everyone.

You sound like you know what you're doing, so I wouldn't worry too much. When I did 5/3/1, I sometimes did squat assistance on DL day or vice versa and it didn't seem to do any harm.

Thanks again man, when I think about it I'll basically be sacrificing strength gains for convenience by doing them together ahha.

klaatu21 wrote:sensai ross, forgive me for doubting you and myself

Mini Forklift Ⓥ wrote:There's only one thing I'm riding at 6am, and it's not a bike!

It can definitely help both lifts. I found I was able to incorporate more leg drive into my deadlift and my squats were more stable. You'll adjust to it within a week or two and you'll be good to go. Make sure you're getting a solid warmup and stretch before and after, and foam roll foam roll foam roll.

Define "Heavy". It's all relative. If you just did heavy squats, and you want to do heavy deadlifts, you clearly will have to reduce the weight to complete the amount of work you could do with a fresh pair of legs. But as far as your body is concerned, it is still heavy and is still going to produce gains.

For instance, if you normally rep out 5x5 with 315, but you just did heavy squats, it is a great idea to drop down to 225 (don't take these figures literally, you make your own decision based on how you feel and not compromising form...) Personally, I actually feel better when I varry the weight each and every set. I go up, down and up again in the same lift sometimes... Does anyone else do this?

I don't see a problem doing both lifts "heavy". I do heavy squats and then immediately do deadlifts after that. These are the two most demanding lifts of leg day so i get them done first.

I have been lurking this thread for about 10 days (new to Vegan "lifestyle" and learning a lot of new things after hearing about Fruitarianism and being naturally curious about nutrition and diet) and your post made me register!!

There is a guy with an immensely popular and growing channel on Youtube named Jonnie Candito (http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWZmmDqEJv277d7hBa1nRfg) with some of THE BEST videos on training, and how to train, available, PERIOD. Seriously, they are MUST WATCH videos if you are interested in deadlift and squat. This guy is about 5'7, 182 lbs, natural (tested) athlete, and can squat over 500 and deadlift over 600 in competition. I have been on his "Linear" strength program for a little over 2 months now and have made excellent gains to my bench, deadlift, and squat. It's a great program and on this program you train Squats and Deadlifts on the same day, twice a week. He trains this way himself, and given his results I was inclined to listen. PS his program is free, he gives it away on his site (http://www.canditotraininghq.com/)

I am not affiliated with this dude other than being a huge fan. As far as "people arguing" over this topic, consider it SQUASHED. /done