Sam Harris on Atheists Appearing Just as Stupid as the Craziest of Religious Nutjobs

Along with Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett and Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris is considered one of the “Four Horseman” of New Age Atheism. He has a degree in philosophy from Stanford University and a Ph.D. in neuroscience from UCLA.

He is also a practicing Buddhist.

While avoiding the direct criticisms of atheism that I’ve laid out in my last post, namely that atheists continually confuse knowledge with belief, and belief with knowledge, in a way that renders their position completely untenable, Sam Harris has a very good article that defends religious and mystical experience and promotes intellectual honesty among atheists.

…”And yet, for thousands of years, [religious and spiritual] contemplatives have claimed to find extraordinary depths of psychological well-being while spending vast stretches of time in total isolation. It seems to me that, as rational people, whether we call ourselves “atheists” or not, we have a choice to make in how we view this whole enterprise. Either the contemplative literature is a mere catalogue of religious delusion, deliberate fraud, and psychopathology, or people have been having interesting and even normative experiences under the name of “spirituality” and “mysticism” for millennia.

“Now let me just assert, on the basis of my own study and experience, that there is no question in my mind that people have improved their emotional lives, and their self-understanding, and their ethical intuitions, and have even had important insights about the nature of subjectivity itself through a variety of traditional practices like meditation.

“Leaving aside all the metaphysics and mythology and mumbo jumbo, what contemplatives and mystics over the millennia claim to have discovered is that there is an alternative to merely living at the mercy of the next neurotic thought that comes careening into consciousness. There is an alternative to being continuously spellbound by the conversation we are having with ourselves.

“Most us think that if a person is walking down the street talking to himself—that is, not able to censor himself in front of other people—he’s probably mentally ill. But if we talk to ourselves all day long silently—thinking, thinking, thinking, rehearsing prior conversations, thinking about what we said, what we didn’t say, what we should have said, jabbering on to ourselves about what we hope is going to happen, what just happened, what almost happened, what should have happened, what may yet happen—but we just know enough to just keep this conversation private, this is perfectly normal. This is perfectly compatible with sanity. Well, this is not what the experience of millions of contemplatives suggests.

“Of course, I am by no means denying the importance of thinking. There is no question that linguistic thought is indispensable for us. It is, in large part, what makes us human. It is the fabric of almost all culture and every social relationship. Needless to say, it is the basis of all science. And it is surely responsible for much rudimentary cognition—for integrating beliefs, planning, explicit learning, moral reasoning, and many other mental capacities. Even talking to oneself out loud may occasionally serve a useful function.

“From the point of view of our contemplative traditions, however—to boil them all down to a cartoon version, that ignores the rather esoteric disputes among them—our habitual identification with discursive thought, our failure moment to moment to recognize thoughts as thoughts, is a primary source of human suffering. And when a person breaks this spell, an extraordinary kind of relief is available.

“But the problem with a contemplative claim of this sort is that you can’t borrow someone else’s contemplative tools to test it. The problem is that to test such a claim—indeed, to even appreciate how distracted we tend to be in the first place, we have to build our own contemplative tools. Imagine where astronomy would be if everyone had to build his own telescope before he could even begin to see if astronomy was a legitimate enterprise. It wouldn’t make the sky any less worthy of investigation, but it would make it immensely more difficult for us to establish astronomy as a science.

“To judge the empirical claims of contemplatives, you have to build your own telescope. Judging their metaphysical claims is another matter: many of these can be dismissed as bad science or bad philosophy by merely thinking about them. But to judge whether certain experiences are possible—and if possible, desirable—we have to be able to use our attention in the requisite ways. We have to be able to break our identification with discursive thought, if only for a few moments. This can take a tremendous amount of work. And it is not work that our culture knows much about.

“One problem with atheism as a category of thought, is that it seems more or less synonymous with not being interested in what someone like the Buddha or Jesus may have actually experienced. In fact, many atheists reject such experiences out of hand, as either impossible, or if possible, not worth wanting. Another common mistake is to imagine that such experiences are necessarily equivalent to states of mind with which many of us are already familiar—the feeling of scientific awe, or ordinary states of aesthetic appreciation, artistic inspiration, etc.

“As someone who has made his own modest efforts in this area, let me assure you, that when a person goes into solitude and trains himself in meditation for 15 or 18 hours a day, for months or years at a time, in silence, doing nothing else—not talking, not reading, not writing—just making a sustained moment to moment effort to merely observe the contents of consciousness and to not get lost in thought, he experiences things that most scientists and artists are not likely to have experienced, unless they have made precisely the same efforts at introspection. And these experiences have a lot to say about the plasticity of the human mind and about the possibilities of human happiness.

“So, apart from just commending these phenomena to your attention, I’d like to point out that, as atheists, our neglect of this area of human experience puts us at a rhetorical disadvantage. Because millions of people have had these experiences, and many millions more have had glimmers of them, and we, as atheists, ignore such phenomena, almost in principle, because of their religious associations—and yet these experiences often constitute the most important and transformative moments in a person’s life. Not recognizing that such experiences are possible or important can make us appear less wise even than our craziest religious opponents.”…

Yes, Sam, it can. And it does.

In my experience, most atheists that I know, or with whose ideas I am familiar, tend to use their position as atheists as something Hubbard called a “service facsimile” – a way to make themselves right and others’ wrong, and a way to dominate others and to escape domination. Most atheists that I know are extremely ignorant of the varied and different religions around the world, and usually become an atheist out of an adolescent rebellion to protest the abuses of the early Catholic Church, or some other religious or spiritual abuse that they have suffered, or seen others suffer.

Atheism can be a seductive worldview to adopt after Scientology, believing that after you’ve experienced Scientology, you’ve experienced all religions. And they’re all just as bad and abusive as you have re-interpreted Scientology to be as an Ex/Anti Scientologist. (Not the view you had of Scn while you were a Scientologist, however. You’ve completely forgotten or dismissed all the good you had in those experiences of Scientology since leaving.)

I find that most atheism is more of an unthinking reaction than it is a thoughtful philosophical position. And when Atheism’s love of reason and science finally does influence an atheist to critically examine his underlying rationale for being one, the atheist is faced with the same cognitive dissonance that a Scientologist is faced with when the “wins” don’t hold up any more.

Then the atheist is left with a choice: keep holding on to a philosophically contradictory position, or grow up and put the religious and spiritual suffering and injustices that you used to rail against into a wider perspective. Keep walling off the important existential questions that religions ask and answer for people, or begin to come down off your scientific high horse and realize that science and religion have never been in competition.

And that no human being fully understands the truth of his own existence.

In this way, the religious and philosophical position of “I don’t know” finally becomes tolerable. And you finally realize that the hard won philosophical wisdom of “I don’t know” is the most sophisticated religion Mankind has ever created.

If we all had a little more “I Don’t Know” in the world, things would be much better.

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From above “. . . our failure moment to moment to recognize thoughts as thoughts, is a primary source of human suffering.” I don’t know what he’s getting at there other than people who meditate talk about “quieting the incessant chatter of the mind.” Personally, I like to think. Maybe I don’t have enough negative thoughts to get rid of? I have another longer post to make, but I want to “think it over” for a while – laughter

This is one of the points he is making. If you have never sat down and watched your own mind for a good long time, you don’t know what mystics and contemplatives are talking about.

This is why the overwhelming majority of atheists don’t get it, and never will.

And this is why atheists like Tony Ortega don’t get Scientology and never will. Not only has he never had an auditing session, he thinks there is absolutely nothing there of any value at all, and that it is all a con, and never will have one. And so he will always remain ignorant of a fundamental aspect of the subject he is pursuing.

What does that say about a writer who writes about this subject as much as he does, but who lacks this basic knowledge of what he is writing about?

I’ll tell you: Because Tony Ortega is an atheist, he does not get why Scientologists engaged in Scientology, and he never will.

He can only write from his ignorance that they were gullible and they were scammed.

And so that gets repeated over and over in his writing. His writing is skewed and unbalanced on Scientology, lacking this fundamental knowledge of the subject. An Ex who does not spot this, will take this on as his own thinking too. An Ex will invalidate himself and his own experiences if he does not remain skeptical of Tony Ortega’s writing and remember his fundamental ignorance of Scientology, and his ignorance of what most Scientologists were doing when they were being Scientologists.

Harris is an atheist AND practices Buddhism?? He’s either a squirrel Atheist or a squirrel Buddhist.

Anyhow, I’ve been having a conversation on another blog about Ken Wilber’s new book called “Trump and a Post-Truth World.” I’m not bringing Integral Theory into the conversation, but here’s a brief Wilber quote from wiki which I think applies to the topic. Maybe Harris is a fence sitter and he relates to some of it.

Wilber:”Are the mystics and sages insane? Because they all tell the same story don’t they.The story of awakening one morning and discovering you are one with the All, in a timeless and eternal and infinite fashion. Yes, maybe they are crazy, these divine fools. Maybe they are mumbling idiots in the face of the Abyss. Maybe they need a nice understanding therapist. Yes, I’m sure that would help. But then, I wonder. Maybe the evolutionary sequence really is from matter to body to mind to soul to spirit, each transcending and including, each with greater consciousness and wider embrace. And in the highest reaches of evolution, maybe, just maybe, an individual’s consciousness does indeed touch infinity – a total embrace of the entire Cosmos – a Cosmic consciousness that is Spirit awakened to its own true nature. It’s at least plausible.

And tell me: is that story, sung by mystics and sages the world over, any crazier than the scientific materialism story, which is that the entire sequence is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying absolutely nothing? Listen very carefully: just which of those two stories actually sounds totally insane?”

Hysterical Things Anti-Scientologists Say...

““They believe a 7-year-old girl should not shudder at being passionately kissed. That’s in Dianetics,”

— Leah Remini to the Hollywood Reporter Promoting the 2nd Season of “Scientology and the Aftermath”

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Wow, psycho, scamology sycophant Alanzo performs two insane posts inside of a week. I didn’t know that internet day at the asylum was more than once a week.

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Looks like you’re fooling some people some of the time.

I think we have a communication problem here, I have no idea what you’re on about.

Taking a stand both for and against Scientology is sure sign of cognitive dissonance, the results of being exposed to too much auditing and the teachings of LRH.

Answer the questions, tricky cult troll boy.

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About Alanzo

Alanzo was a Scientologist for 16 years.

He reached the state of "Clear" and was on staff as an Executive Director and Course Supervisor in Scientology missions in the Midwest and Los Angeles.

When Alanzo had experienced enough in Scientology to see the extent to which he had been deceived, he left and immediately began speaking out on the Internet to expose its lies and abuse. Alanzo first began speaking out against Scientology on the Internet as "Poopsy Charmichael" in the alt.religion.scientology newsgroup in the late 1990's.

As the main Internet battleground between the Church and its critics, ARS soon became too negative and so Alanzo moved to Beliefnet.com and elsewhere on the Internet to engage with actual Scientologists, providing them with the information they needed to make informed decisions about their own involvement in Scientology. He spent many years in the early to mid 2000s presenting Scientologists with LRH's real biography & other information that the Church had been hiding from them. Alanzo saw many Scientologists "wake up" around the Internet, after finally getting the information they needed.

In January/February of 2007, Alanzo then moved to the brand new Ex-Scientologists Message Board (ESMB), where Exes were gathering to tell their stories in Scientology. From there, Alanzo witnessed the rise of Anonymous, and was in attendance when Marty Rathbun, in the summer of 2009, kicked the hornet's nest with his announcement that he had started up his new website, and thus the great 2nd Exodus of Independents had begun.

Alanzo found more Scientologists to engage on Marty's website in the Independent movement. Also, Alanzo spent a few years at Geir Isene's blog, where he engaged many very intelligent and free thinking Scientologists and Exes who had retained constructive and positive views of their time in Scientology. This influenced Alanzo greatly by reminding him of things that he had conveniently forgotten about himself and his time in Scientology while becoming an "Anti-Scientology critic".

Then, an unknown critic emerged onto the scene from the Village Voice, Tony Ortega. Alanzo posted often to the Underground Bunker and was one of its most frequently upvoted Anti-Scientology critics there.

That's where Alanzo was exposed to more "never-in" critics of Scientology he'd seen yet on the Internet. And with its mix of the cruelty of Anonymous and the disrespect and disgust for Scientologists, Alanzo began to see tribal behavior that was very reminiscent of the worst of the Sea Org. When Tony Ortega repeatedly went after a woman, a Scientologist whose daughter had committed suicide, he saw the cruelty that all those anti-Scientologsts whipped up in each other. This caused Alanzo to have yet another turning point.

He realized that the deeper he became involved in the Anti-Cult/Anti-Scientology Movement, the more he began to notice very similar tribal behavior to the most fanatical of Scientologists. Alanzo saw a rise of some of the same tribalism from Anti-Scientologists that he was trying to escape by getting himself out of Scientology.

It was like being stuck in a nightmare, and after finally wrenching yourself awake, you're relieved to have escaped that nightmare - only to realize that the nightmare is still going on! ☺

That's when Alanzo began applying the same critical thinking skills to the underlying beliefs of Anti-Scientology that he had earlier applied to Scientology. And that's when his anti-Scientology mindset collapsed on Alanzo, just like his Scientology mindset had collapsed on him so long ago.

And this is where Alanzo is today - applying basic skepticism to both Scientology and anti-Scientology beliefs. He has come to realize that this position of skepticism toward both Scientology & Anti-Scientology is the only sustainable view.

Alanzo's experience of the previous 18 years has led him to conclude that, as long as you continue to think critically and you remain loyal to the truth instead of any person or group, getting out of a 'cult' is not something that you recover from, it is something that you are strengthened by.

Alanzo's purpose is to provide the information necessary for people to make informed decisions about Scientology & Anti-Scientology.

Contribute to AlanzosBlog

There are many ways to contribute. If you think that these ideas need to be made part of the conversation on Scientology, then comment here, follow me on Twitter, link to AlanzosBlog on Facebook and Reddit, and get these ideas out there so that the stereotyping of minority religions like Scientology is at least is questioned by someone on the Internet!

Or start a blog yourself - I'll help you get one started.

Or, you can support this blog monetarily and help me do bigger and better things. By donating you agree to keep AlanzosBlog completely non-partisan, independent and free to provide the information necessary to make informed decisions on Scientology and Anti-Scientology.