What downturn has there been ? Record numbers in work. They also predicted more than just a downturn.

We were in the Eu in the 80’s when we had 3 million on the dole. We were also in the Eu in 2008 when the financial crash happened. That’s the problem with a capitalist system, you’ll always have a downturn at some time.

I couldn’t careless regarding the USA trade agreement with the Eu. He said back of the queue , which is obviously not true. Just another scare story from project fear .

Again, if everyone is moving up and we are moving up more slowly than the others, that is a downturn. It is all relative. Those cyclical events that you reference show that it's the relative position which is important. And relatively speaking, our economy is dreadful at the moment. Because of Brexit, and it hasn't even happened as yet.

I can't explain it anymore than that. If you don't get it, then it's pointless talking to you about it.

And we are at the back of the queue. Compared to the EU which was the point being made. So it's not project fear, it's the truth.

What downturn has there been ? Record numbers in work. They also predicted more than just a downturn.

We were in the Eu in the 80’s when we had 3 million on the dole. We were also in the Eu in 2008 when the financial crash happened. That’s the problem with a capitalist system, you’ll always have a downturn at some time.

I couldn’t careless regarding the USA trade agreement with the Eu. He said back of the queue , which is obviously not true. Just another scare story from project fear .

There's nuggets of truth in there. We've seen lows and highs whilst being being a member of the EU. Major world events (sub-prime lending crisis and following global recession) and domestic policies (e.g. Tory austerity response to recession, Labour's open door policy) lead to greater, more drastic changes on people's lives than any dictates coming from the EU.

In other words the EU isn't to blame for all our ills and it seems people have basically made them a scapegoat for their broader dissatisfaction with the impacts of globalisation, growing divide in wealth, etc., etc.

Slightly misplaced imo. Instead we should be calling to account our own politicians who have overseen an increase in homelessness, increase in school class sizes, fall in literacy and science standards, increasing NHS waiting lists, local government cuts to basic services, etc. But we keep voting them in off the back of a load of cheap slogans (applies to Westminster and Welsh Assembly, so this transcends any political bias).

Already answered you first question at the bottom of page 33. Here it is again...

"Of course the EU would still sell us goods. But complex supply chains would be affected by tariffs and custom checks.

Even if we started negotiating now, they wouldn't be agreed in time for when we depart the EU and Countries wouldn't do any serious negotiating with us until they understood our future trading relationship with the EU. "

So yes, we can operate under WTO, but would we be any better off than we are now? Will some companies / sectors suffer? Most likely.

French wine and German cars will still reach our shores,they'll just be more expensive than before. and our exports to the EU will be less competitive than before. Some EU firms might still buy our exports, whilst some might find alternative suppliers as a result of Brexit.

This isn’t just about economics but also political. If German cars and French wine are more expensive , buy a Korean , Japanese car , also buy Australian , South African wine.

In layman’s terms we buy a heck of a lot more from our Eu friends than they buy off us. If they were to impose tariffs for example and the U.K. responsed in kind, the Eu export market would be paying billions more £ than what the U.K. would pay.

Hopefully the Eu do impose tariffs as I see this would benift the U.K.

There's nuggets of truth in there. We've seen lows and highs whilst being being a member of the EU. Major world events (sub-prime lending crisis and following global recession) and domestic policies (e.g. Tory austerity response to recession, Labour's open door policy) lead to greater, more drastic changes on people's lives than any dictates coming from the EU.

In other words the EU isn't to blame for all our ills and it seems people have basically made them a scapegoat for their broader dissatisfaction with the impacts of globalisation, growing divide in wealth, etc., etc.

Slightly misplaced imo. Instead we should be calling to account our own politicians who have overseen an increase in homelessness, increase in school class sizes, fall in literacy and science standards, increasing NHS waiting lists, local government cuts to basic services, etc. But we keep voting them in off the back of a load of cheap slogans (applies to Westminster and Welsh Assembly, so this transcends any political bias).

And as I said earlier it’s not just about pure economics. It more than that. I don’t want to be a citizen of a county called the European Union , and before someone’s says it’s not a country , it soon will be if they have their way.

This isn’t just about economics but also political. If German cars and French wine are more expensive , buy a Korean , Japanese car , also buy Australian , South African wine.

In layman’s terms we buy a heck of a lot more from our Eu friends than they buy off us. If they were to impose tariffs for example and the U.K. responsed in kind, the Eu export market would be paying billions more £ than what the U.K. would pay.

Hopefully the Eu do impose tariffs as I see this would benift the U.K.

The EU sell more to us than we do to them. Completely correct.

But the remaining EU is much bigger than the UK, so again you have to look at the relative sizes to understand importance.

As a percentage of the economy, our EU exports account for about 13% of our economy whereas the other way round, the EU exports to us (remaining EU countries) are about 3% of their economy. So the argument you use (it benefits us over them) is not true. It hurts us more to lose trade if that's what happens due to tariffs.

This isn’t just about economics but also political. If German cars and French wine are more expensive , buy a Korean , Japanese car , also buy Australian , South African wine.

In layman’s terms we buy a heck of a lot more from our Eu friends than they buy off us. If they were to impose tariffs for example and the U.K. responsed in kind, the Eu export market would be paying billions more £ than what the U.K. would pay.

Hopefully the Eu do impose tariffs as I see this would benift the U.K.

EU has a FTA with Korea, so KIA's will be more expensive post Brexit, but i take your point that we can shop around with other nations that we don't currently have FTA's via the EU.

In all likeliness, we will be able to buy tariff free from the EU, but won't be able to export under the same terms back to them. And if they do decide to impose tariffs and we do the same, do you think the British public benefit from this?

And as I said earlier it’s not just about pure economics. It more than that. I don’t want to be a citizen of a county called the European Union , and before someone’s says it’s not a country , it soon will be if they have their way.

project fear there, we were never going to become a nation of Europe whilst we were in it.

But the remaining EU is much bigger than the UK, so again you have to look at the relative sizes to understand importance.

As a percentage of the economy, our EU exports account for about 13% of our economy whereas the other way round, the EU exports to us (remaining EU countries) are about 3% of their economy. So the argument you use (it benefits us over them) is not true. It hurts us more to lose trade if that's what happens due to tariffs.

I’m sure it won’t be the U.K. that introduces tariffs first. There will be some realignment to the economy due to Brexit, but so what, if the doctor proscribes medicine , that medicine may not taste very nice, but you take it because in the long run you know it’ll make you better, and as I’ve said it’s not just economics , but also a political decision for me and that’s why I voted OUT.

And as I said earlier it’s not just about pure economics. It more than that. I don’t want to be a citizen of a county called the European Union , and before someone’s says it’s not a country , it soon will be if they have their way.

Neither do I.

That's the only possible argument for voting out. And I considered doing so for that reason before the vote. But ultimately, the economic impact was more important to me. And what I've seen since the vote indicates to me that the economic impact may actually be worse than I anticipated. I always believed we would recover in the longer term, but I now think it may take a lot longer than I imagined. Largely due to the utter ineptitude of the government and their insistence on pandering to the right wing of their party.

If I'd known then what I know now, I wouldn't have considered voting leave for even one moment.

Again, if everyone is moving up and we are moving up more slowly than the others, that is a downturn. It is all relative. Those cyclical events that you reference show that it's the relative position which is important. And relatively speaking, our economy is dreadful at the moment. Because of Brexit, and it hasn't even happened as yet.

I can't explain it anymore than that. If you don't get it, then it's pointless talking to you about it.

And we are at the back of the queue. Compared to the EU which was the point being made. So it's not project fear, it's the truth.

You say the economy is dreadful because of Brexit, tell me how you can guarantee that that’s the case? Do you know for definite that our economy would have been much better had we voted remain? Taking into account that on that graph you presented our economy had been declining at a faster rate for years before the vote.

EU has a FTA with Korea, so KIA's will be more expensive post Brexit, but i take your point that we can shop around with other nations that we don't currently have FTA's via the EU.

In all likeliness, we will be able to buy tariff free from the EU, but won't be able to export under the same terms back to them. And if they do decide to impose tariffs and we do the same, do you think the British public benefit from this?

If tariffs are imposed the U.K. will take more revenue from the Eu than vice versa. It won’t be the U.K. that intoduces tariffs first, they would just respond.

Why on earth do you think the Eu would have a more favourable trade deal With the U.K. , than we would with them ? That’s just complete nonsense.

I’m sure it won’t be the U.K. that introduces tariffs first. There will be some realignment to the economy due to Brexit, but so what, if the doctor proscribes medicine , that medicine may not taste very nice, but you take it because in the long run you know it’ll make you better, and as I’ve said it’s not just economics , but also a political decision for me and that’s why I voted OUT.

We will have to agree yo the other things that come with tariff free access then. Which I hope we do. In which case, what the hell is the point of all this?

As for the 'so what'. That's where we're different. It's all very well saying so what if you can afford to do so and are an ar*e who doesn't care about anyone else. Jacob Rees Mogg is your natural leader in that situation.

But people will suffer. Lose jobs. All that brings. If you don't personally suffer what you're actually saying is someone else has to take the medicine, not you.

You say the economy is dreadful because of Brexit, tell me how you can guarantee that that’s the case? Do you know for definite that our economy would have been much better had we voted remain? Taking into account that on that graph you presented our economy had been declining at a faster rate for years before the vote.

Yes, it would definitely have been much better if we had voted to remain.

We will have to agree yo the other things that come with tariff free access then. Which I hope we do. In which case, what the hell is the point of all this?

As for the 'so what'. That's where we're different. It's all very well saying so what if you can afford to do so and are an ar*e who doesn't care about anyone else. Jacob Rees Mogg is your natural leader in that situation.

But people will suffer. Lose jobs. All that brings. If you don't personally suffer what you're actually saying is someone else has to take the medicine, not you.

If I after to take the medicine then I’d take it. Why do we have to agree to anything so we can have tariff free access ? Believe me they want access to our markets just as much as we want theirs.

As I said I hope the Eu do impose tariffs and we then respond in kind. That may well set of an political earthquake in the Eu. Can you imagine a French farmer, or German carmaker , or Spanish tourist worker being told very sorry you are losing your job and livelihood but we have to punish the Brits and send a warning to others of making the same decision as the British have made.

If I after to take the medicine then I’d take it. Why do we have to agree to anything so we can have tariff free access ? Believe me they want access to our markets just as much as we want theirs.

As I said I hope the Eu do impose tariffs and we then respond in kind. That may well set of an political earthquake in the Eu. Can you imagine a French farmer, or German carmaker , or Spanish tourist worker being told very sorry you are losing your job and livelihood but we have to punish the Brits and send a warning to others of making the same decision as the British have made.

[Post edited 28 Mar 2018 17:31]

Call it a hunch, but I'm not certain you understand the way tariffs work.

"If tariffs are imposed the U.K. will take more revenue from the Eu than vice versa."

Other way round.

Im checking with you, becuase your more knowledgable than me on this, but if the UK were to slap a tariff on EU goods entering this country, it will effectively be the government taxing their own citizens on items purchased from the EU. i.e. the consumer would be paying this, not the exporter. Since we import more from the EU than the export to it, British citizens would pay the most.

Im checking with you, becuase your more knowledgable than me on this, but if the UK were to slap a tariff on EU goods entering this country, it will effectively be the government taxing their own citizens on items purchased from the EU. i.e. the consumer would be paying this, not the exporter. Since we import more from the EU than the export to it, British citizens would pay the most.

[Post edited 28 Mar 2018 17:31]

Of course the consumer picks up the bill, same as the Eu consumer would have to pick up the bill, if tariffs were imposed on them.