With Egypt acting as an intermediary, Hamas has given Israel conditions for a cease-fire, a general in Egyptian intelligence has told CNN.

Quoting: The Tauremini

NOOOOOOO!!!! give us our dOOOM!!

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27834717

Don't worry, and rest assured. Yours is coming. That's the one thing about living down here...is that you eventually DIE. So, when yours comes, I'm sure people will be cheering it on too. And maybe, you'll even get to see a crowd of people around you, staring at you as you're taking your last breaths. -Cheering you away...

So let me get this straight, if an Aborigine shows up on your doorstep saying that it is rightfully his property because his god divinely gave it to him and his family was driven away by your prisoner ancestors, are you obligated to give it to him. Or here in America, like an injun showing up and demanding we give them our property because the "great spirit" swore it to their injun ancestors 2000 years ago. No. Israel has no right to that land just because the United Nations stole it from Palestinians and gave it to them, because no UN member-nations wanted the Jews on their own soil. God gave Abraham that land for sure, then Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament and destroyed those wicked men and their false religion that killed Him in 70AD, and burned up their city. The "Jews" that are in Israel now are in no way, shape, or form "God's chosen people" unless they are Christians. Period.

Quoting: UnmannedAerialPilot

Not exactly.

How many times did Israel turn away from God, and how many times did God desert them forever? The fact is, Israel's entire history is one of rebellion, dispersion, and restoration, because God promised unilaterally to preserve them forever. It isn't about how bad Israel is, but how faithful God is. And they must be back in their ancestral land, in unbelief, before the remaining prophecies can be fulfilled.

So it matters not how modern Israel was formed, or why, or by whom; God decreed their restoration, just as surely as he decreed their final judgments for their unbelief. One purpose of the coming Tribulation is to turn their hearts back to God, and it will happen.

No other country on earth has that Promise. And if, as you argue, we can't go around handing lands back to their "original" occupants, then why do you turn around and say Israel must do that very thing now? And why not demand that Jordan take the so-called Palestinians? Jordan turned them away and used them as political pawns.

And if you want to appropriate the blessings God originally gave to Israel, then take the curses as well. The modern church has many skeletons in its closet.

So let me get this straight, if an Aborigine shows up on your doorstep saying that it is rightfully his property because his god divinely gave it to him and his family was driven away by your prisoner ancestors, are you obligated to give it to him. Or here in America, like an injun showing up and demanding we give them our property because the "great spirit" swore it to their injun ancestors 2000 years ago. No. Israel has no right to that land just because the United Nations stole it from Palestinians and gave it to them, because no UN member-nations wanted the Jews on their own soil. God gave Abraham that land for sure, then Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament and destroyed those wicked men and their false religion that killed Him in 70AD, and burned up their city. The "Jews" that are in Israel now are in no way, shape, or form "God's chosen people" unless they are Christians. Period.

Quoting: UnmannedAerialPilot

Not exactly.

How many times did Israel turn away from God, and how many times did God desert them forever? The fact is, Israel's entire history is one of rebellion, dispersion, and restoration, because God promised unilaterally to preserve them forever. It isn't about how bad Israel is, but how faithful God is. And they must be back in their ancestral land, in unbelief, before the remaining prophecies can be fulfilled.

So it matters not how modern Israel was formed, or why, or by whom; God decreed their restoration, just as surely as he decreed their final judgments for their unbelief. One purpose of the coming Tribulation is to turn their hearts back to God, and it will happen.

No other country on earth has that Promise. And if, as you argue, we can't go around handing lands back to their "original" occupants, then why do you turn around and say Israel must do that very thing now? And why not demand that Jordan take the so-called Palestinians? Jordan turned them away and used them as political pawns.

And if you want to appropriate the blessings God originally gave to Israel, then take the curses as well. The modern church has many skeletons in its closet.

Quoting: Keep2theCode

One of the main problems is that "modern churches" and unfortunately "modern Christianity" for that matter see the Church and Israel as separate. The truth is there is only ONE "chosen people of God" and they have always been, and will always be, the TRUE Israel of God composed of both Jews and Gentiles. There are many "Jews in name only" as well as "Christians in name only", but that doesn't change the fact that God knows who HIS people are, and as Jesus promised, He would never lose a single one that the Father gave to Him. It is not a "country" that was promised ANYTHING! It was the SEED OF ABRAHAM!!! NOT seeds as many, but singular: SEED. It was Jesus of Nazareth, the Messiah, God in the flesh, the chosen SEED, that all promises were fulfilled in. There is no "coming" tribulation. Matthew 24 was speaking of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD and the end of that false religious system. There is no "anti-Christ" (other than the spirit of anti-Christ that existed in John's day, and continues on to present day), there is no "rapture" Jesus said He would return ONCE at the LAST DAY at the LAST TRUMP, the 70 weeks prophecy was talking about JESUS, NOT ANTI-CHRIST and "modern Christianity" (I would say 90% of it) has stolen the 70th week from the LORD and given it to some future "anti-Christ" that is a figment of J.N. Darby's imagination.

Even a blind man can see that the Palestinians are having everything stolen from them.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28070910

First, how far back in history to you 'stop' to make your argument?

Second, prior to the United Nations re-establishing Israel as a Nation in 1948, the Palestinians were offered land AND the surrounding Arab countries were asked to take them in. Guess what, the Arab countries said "NO". Why?....hate for Israel made them shit on their own kind.

Arafat continued this hate in that everything that Israel offered this bastard turned down because he had a "all or nothing" attitude.

I'm not saying Israel has been innocent all the time, but before we make the Palestinians out to be the poor people abused only by the Israelis, there is a lot of blame to go around.

So let me get this straight, if an Aborigine shows up on your doorstep saying that it is rightfully his property because his god divinely gave it to him and his family was driven away by your prisoner ancestors, are you obligated to give it to him. Or here in America, like an injun showing up and demanding we give them our property because the "great spirit" swore it to their injun ancestors 2000 years ago. No. Israel has no right to that land just because the United Nations stole it from Palestinians and gave it to them, because no UN member-nations wanted the Jews on their own soil. God gave Abraham that land for sure, then Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament and destroyed those wicked men and their false religion that killed Him in 70AD, and burned up their city. The "Jews" that are in Israel now are in no way, shape, or form "God's chosen people" unless they are Christians. Period.

Quoting: UnmannedAerialPilot

Not exactly.

How many times did Israel turn away from God, and how many times did God desert them forever? The fact is, Israel's entire history is one of rebellion, dispersion, and restoration, because God promised unilaterally to preserve them forever. It isn't about how bad Israel is, but how faithful God is. And they must be back in their ancestral land, in unbelief, before the remaining prophecies can be fulfilled.

So it matters not how modern Israel was formed, or why, or by whom; God decreed their restoration, just as surely as he decreed their final judgments for their unbelief. One purpose of the coming Tribulation is to turn their hearts back to God, and it will happen.

No other country on earth has that Promise. And if, as you argue, we can't go around handing lands back to their "original" occupants, then why do you turn around and say Israel must do that very thing now? And why not demand that Jordan take the so-called Palestinians? Jordan turned them away and used them as political pawns.

And if you want to appropriate the blessings God originally gave to Israel, then take the curses as well. The modern church has many skeletons in its closet.

One of the main problems is that "modern churches" and unfortunately "modern Christianity" for that matter see the Church and Israel as separate. The truth is there is only ONE "chosen people of God" and they have always been, and will always be, the TRUE Israel of God composed of both Jews and Gentiles. There are many "Jews in name only" as well as "Christians in name only", but that doesn't change the fact that God knows who HIS people are, and as Jesus promised, He would never lose a single one that the Father gave to Him. It is not a "country" that was promised ANYTHING! It was the SEED OF ABRAHAM!!! NOT seeds as many, but singular: SEED. It was Jesus of Nazareth, the Messiah, God in the flesh, the chosen SEED, that all promises were fulfilled in. There is no "coming" tribulation. Matthew 24 was speaking of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD and the end of that false religious system. There is no "anti-Christ" (other than the spirit of anti-Christ that existed in John's day, and continues on to present day), there is no "rapture" Jesus said He would return ONCE at the LAST DAY at the LAST TRUMP, the 70 weeks prophecy was talking about JESUS, NOT ANTI-CHRIST and "modern Christianity" (I would say 90% of it) has stolen the 70th week from the LORD and given it to some future "anti-Christ" that is a figment of J.N. Darby's imagination.

Quoting: UnmannedAerialPilot

I'm not going to go hunt for all the links right now, but you must know that the OT lays out specific geographical boundaries for the nation of Israel, and that the prophecies yet to be fulfilled reference those boundaries and specify the city of Jerusalem. God promised LAND to Abraham and his descendants forever, not just salvation or spiritual inheritance. You also must know that the debate over various "replacement theology" views has been raging for a long time and won't be solved here at GLP anytime soon.

All I'll say is that the church is a new, third entity besides Jew and Gentile, a "new creation". Per Gal. 3:28, "There is no Jew or Greek, no slave or free, no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus". If there is "no Jew" then we are not Jews; Paul spent a lot of effort refuting all attempts to make Gentiles become Jews. Even Peter and James, at the Jerusalem Council (Acts 16 I think), cited a prophecy that after the times of the Gentiles, God would "return and rebuild David's fallen tent". So there are Jews, there are Gentiles, and there are Christians, and they do not replace each other or negate the promises of God.

So you are a Preterist; fine. I strongly disagree. The fact that the nation of Israel exists at all today should be one major proof that you're wrong. Besides... the Revelation was given to John 25 years AFTER the destruction of Jerusalem.

And for all of you who spread the LIE that the Rapture/Tribulation is only a teaching of Darby, or Schofield, or Margaret Macdonald, you will give an account before God for your slander. I and everyone who believes there is prophecy yet to fulfill do so solely upon scripture.

“For the first time on Thursday, the Egyptian president explicitly said the word ‘Israel’ during a public condemnation of Israel’s actions,” writes well-known Israeli commentator Boaz Bismuth of the right-leaning Israel Hayom daily.

The word may have been a slip, because in speech Friday the president only referred to Israel as “the aggressor.”

Nevertheless, Bismuth welcomes Thursday’s aberration with open arms.

“Never before has a condemnation been so well-received in Jerusalem,” he says.

Ever since the latest escalation between Israel and Palestine began Wednesday, Israeli media commentators have praised President Mohamed Morsy for perceived moderation vis-a-vis Israel, and have expected him to pressure Hamas to accept a deal favorable to Israel.

On Sunday, as an Israeli official arrived in Cairo for truce talks with Hamas, Israeli President Shimon Peres complained that Hamas “don’t even listen to their Arab brothers,” and has turned down the Egyptian president’s proposal for a cease-fire.

Egyptian officials had repeatedly warned Hamas leadership, before Israel’s latest assault on Gaza began, not to provoke Israel, and emphasized that Egypt was not interested in escalation, according to Ehud Yaari, a prominent Arab affairs commentator for Channel 2 News, Israel’s most popular television news network.

“Now you have to understand Egypt’s behavior, with everything we see, in the light of that,” said Yaari, during the Saturday afternoon broadcast, implying that Morsy may be little inclined to come to the rescue of Hamas.

The decision to recall Egypt’s ambassador from Tel Aviv and summon the Israeli ambassador for protest left Israeli analysts unimpressed.

“We’ve seen this before, even during the friendly Mubarak era,” writes Bismuth, referring to ousted Egyptian leader Hosni Mubarak.

Morsy also requested emergency meetings of the United Nations Security Council and of Arab foreign ministers.

“The Egyptian president must be seen as doing more than his predecessor, Hosni Mubarak, who recalled his ambassador a number of times — from Operation Peace for the Galilee through the Second Intifada and more,” writes former Israeli Ambassador Zvi Mazel for The Jerusalem Post. “Recalling the ambassador is becoming routine and is losing its effectiveness.” [link to www.egyptindependent.com]

The news here are still saying they might be close to a cease fire. Ban Ki Mon arrived in Cairo to assist with the truce talks.

Even a blind man can see that the Palestinians are having everything stolen from them.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28070910

First, how far back in history to you 'stop' to make your argument?

Second, prior to the United Nations re-establishing Israel as a Nation in 1948, the Palestinians were offered land AND the surrounding Arab countries were asked to take them in. Guess what, the Arab countries said "NO". Why?....hate for Israel made them shit on their own kind.

Arafat continued this hate in that everything that Israel offered this bastard turned down because he had a "all or nothing" attitude.

I'm not saying Israel has been innocent all the time, but before we make the Palestinians out to be the poor people abused only by the Israelis, there is a lot of blame to go around.

Quoting: Fighting Spartan

Good point. Both sides need to just cut it out. If the Palestinians would stop lobbing rockets into Israel and Israel would stop settling on the land they agreed to hand over to the Palestinians, then peace is possible. But I know there are powerful people that would absolutely hate for that to happen. If both sides could just see that they would be much better off co-existing, things would be so much better. Wish it was that easy though.

One of the main problems is that "modern churches" and unfortunately "modern Christianity" for that matter see the Church and Israel as separate. The truth is there is only ONE "chosen people of God" and they have always been, and will always be, the TRUE Israel of God composed of both Jews and Gentiles. There are many "Jews in name only" as well as "Christians in name only", but that doesn't change the fact that God knows who HIS people are, and as Jesus promised, He would never lose a single one that the Father gave to Him. It is not a "country" that was promised ANYTHING! It was the SEED OF ABRAHAM!!! NOT seeds as many, but singular: SEED. It was Jesus of Nazareth, the Messiah, God in the flesh, the chosen SEED, that all promises were fulfilled in. There is no "coming" tribulation. Matthew 24 was speaking of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD and the end of that false religious system. There is no "anti-Christ" (other than the spirit of anti-Christ that existed in John's day, and continues on to present day), there is no "rapture" Jesus said He would return ONCE at the LAST DAY at the LAST TRUMP, the 70 weeks prophecy was talking about JESUS, NOT ANTI-CHRIST and "modern Christianity" (I would say 90% of it) has stolen the 70th week from the LORD and given it to some future "anti-Christ" that is a figment of J.N. Darby's imagination.

Quoting: UnmannedAerialPilot

I'm not going to go hunt for all the links right now, but you must know that the OT lays out specific geographical boundaries for the nation of Israel, and that the prophecies yet to be fulfilled reference those boundaries and specify the city of Jerusalem. God promised LAND to Abraham and his descendants forever, not just salvation or spiritual inheritance. You also must know that the debate over various "replacement theology" views has been raging for a long time and won't be solved here at GLP anytime soon.

All I'll say is that the church is a new, third entity besides Jew and Gentile, a "new creation". Per Gal. 3:28, "There is no Jew or Greek, no slave or free, no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus". If there is "no Jew" then we are not Jews; Paul spent a lot of effort refuting all attempts to make Gentiles become Jews. Even Peter and James, at the Jerusalem Council (Acts 16 I think), cited a prophecy that after the times of the Gentiles, God would "return and rebuild David's fallen tent". So there are Jews, there are Gentiles, and there are Christians, and they do not replace each other or negate the promises of God.

So you are a Preterist; fine. I strongly disagree. The fact that the nation of Israel exists at all today should be one major proof that you're wrong. Besides... the Revelation was given to John 25 years AFTER the destruction of Jerusalem.

And for all of you who spread the LIE that the Rapture/Tribulation is only a teaching of Darby, or Schofield, or Margaret Macdonald, you will give an account before God for your slander. I and everyone who believes there is prophecy yet to fulfill do so solely upon scripture.

Quoting: Keep2theCode

Not a Preterist in the least. There is a sect called "Futurist" which takes all of the prophecies and sticks them out into the future where most of them do NOT belong, a sect called "Preterist" which fulfills them all in the past, where many of them do NOT belong and as usual there is the TRUTH riding down the middle in a view called "Historicism" or "Historicalism", of which I am fully convinced. The truth about the Rapture is that it was invented by a Jesuit Priest around the time of the Reformation. The great reformists were coming out accusing the Pope of being the anti-Christ, so in typical fashion, the Roman devils created the two "interpretations" of Preterism/Futurism to take the heat off of the papacy. I used to be a hardcore futurist (Left Behind, John Hagee, the whole thing), until I read a book called "The Great Prophecies of the Bible" by Ralph Woodrow. I suggest you check it out (at least give it a read so that you can see where we are coming from). You can get it for $5 brand new at the website below. (Just go to the main page from that article I posted). Anyways, here is a great link for the current debate: [link to www.letgodbetrue.com]

Not a Preterist in the least. There is a sect called "Futurist" which takes all of the prophecies and sticks them out into the future where most of them do NOT belong, a sect called "Preterist" which fulfills them all in the past, where many of them do NOT belong and as usual there is the TRUTH riding down the middle in a view called "Historicism" or "Historicalism", of which I am fully convinced. The truth about the Rapture is that it was invented by a Jesuit Priest around the time of the Reformation. The great reformists were coming out accusing the Pope of being the anti-Christ, so in typical fashion, the Roman devils created the two "interpretations" of Preterism/Futurism to take the heat off of the papacy. I used to be a hardcore futurist (Left Behind, John Hagee, the whole thing), until I read a book called "The Great Prophecies of the Bible" by Ralph Woodrow. I suggest you check it out (at least give it a read so that you can see where we are coming from). You can get it for $5 brand new at the website below. (Just go to the main page from that article I posted). Anyways, here is a great link for the current debate: [link to www.letgodbetrue.com]

Quoting: UnmannedAerialPilot

I reject Historicism as well. It stretches allegory and symbolism to absurdity, such as in thinking Satan has been bound already (depending on which historicist you ask).

No, what you think about the Rapture is NOT the truth but a lie. I use scripture alone to back up what I believe, and so also does every Rapture teacher. Nobody relies on Jesuits or seers or visions or rumors. As I said already, those who spread these lies about us will answer to God for their slander.

I've "checked out" many, many books over the years, trust me. I'm no n00b to this debate. My position is held on the basis of study and discussion alone.

At any rate, you can't make any other country give back its land to alleged rightful owners, so don't try to make an exception for Israel. They are there, like it or not, and have a tiny, tiny, tiny piece of land to live on and defend. Let the Arabs give up land for a change, to people they claim are their brothers.

Not a Preterist in the least. There is a sect called "Futurist" which takes all of the prophecies and sticks them out into the future where most of them do NOT belong, a sect called "Preterist" which fulfills them all in the past, where many of them do NOT belong and as usual there is the TRUTH riding down the middle in a view called "Historicism" or "Historicalism", of which I am fully convinced. The truth about the Rapture is that it was invented by a Jesuit Priest around the time of the Reformation. The great reformists were coming out accusing the Pope of being the anti-Christ, so in typical fashion, the Roman devils created the two "interpretations" of Preterism/Futurism to take the heat off of the papacy. I used to be a hardcore futurist (Left Behind, John Hagee, the whole thing), until I read a book called "The Great Prophecies of the Bible" by Ralph Woodrow. I suggest you check it out (at least give it a read so that you can see where we are coming from). You can get it for $5 brand new at the website below. (Just go to the main page from that article I posted). Anyways, here is a great link for the current debate: [link to www.letgodbetrue.com]

Quoting: UnmannedAerialPilot

I reject Historicism as well. It stretches allegory and symbolism to absurdity, such as in thinking Satan has been bound already (depending on which historicist you ask).

No, what you think about the Rapture is NOT the truth but a lie. I use scripture alone to back up what I believe, and so also does every Rapture teacher. Nobody relies on Jesuits or seers or visions or rumors. As I said already, those who spread these lies about us will answer to God for their slander.

I've "checked out" many, many books over the years, trust me. I'm no n00b to this debate. My position is held on the basis of study and discussion alone.

At any rate, you can't make any other country give back its land to alleged rightful owners, so don't try to make an exception for Israel. They are there, like it or not, and have a tiny, tiny, tiny piece of land to live on and defend. Let the Arabs give up land for a change, to people they claim are their brothers.

Quoting: Keep2theCode

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on the eschatology thing, but I would seriously like you to read that book, at least give it a listen. I will buy it for you, no joke...it's $5. I can buy and have it sent to you or send you $5 on paypal or something. Israel has been slowly, but surely killing off an entire people from the face of the earth, and the rest of the world just sit idly by and watch, or support them. Last I checked we give Israel $8mil/day in foreign aid to buy the white phosphorus that they use to bomb Palestinian schools and neighborhoods with. To me it is lunacy, but that is just MHO.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on the eschatology thing, but I would seriously like you to read that book, at least give it a listen. I will buy it for you, no joke...it's $5. I can buy and have it sent to you or send you $5 on paypal or something. Israel has been slowly, but surely killing off an entire people from the face of the earth, and the rest of the world just sit idly by and watch, or support them. Last I checked we give Israel $8mil/day in foreign aid to buy the white phosphorus that they use to bomb Palestinian schools and neighborhoods with. To me it is lunacy, but that is just MHO.

Quoting: UnmannedAerialPilot

I can agree to disagree. I just can't agree to be slandered and labeled.

I appreciate the offer but I really don't think there's a historicist argument I've not come across already. But I will offer a link to free articles online for the futurist, pre-trib Rapture position: [link to www.raptureme.com]

Remember that Israel has to be in unbelief, which they certainly are, and that their enemies are much worse. After all, I've not seen one Israeli strap bombs to their children, or slowly saw off the head of a girl for going to school, or kill their own people and then get CNN to tell the world that they were victims of Hamas. And you seem to turn a blind eye to all the Jew hatred of the last few millennia.

God will sort it all out. In the meantime, I will continue spreading the gospel and looking for Jesus to return for us.

there will NEVER be a ceasefire, maybe for a short time, but hamas will only reload their weapons, they are living for destroying israel!

it's like taliban/al qaida making truce with the US!

Quoting: Ger_reG

Israel is constantly building settlements on arab land. Israel is the evil thorn that is infecting the region.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28064029

You are referring to that tiny little speck of land which has a population less than 4million people, less than 8,000 square miles, while the hostile arab neighbors --150 million on 5 million square miles, whose armies number nearly 1 million, while israel's army consists of 164,000??????????????????Surely you jest!

Has Hamas actually killed anybody, all I ever hear is a rocket hit some rock in some uninhabited area...

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19948123

Would you be trilled if Hamas or anyone else in the world were continually bombarding you with rockets, even IF they did only hit rocks. The truth is, these rockets do hit civilians, children, women, old men, and the muslims love to brag about killing and attacking them? Yes, they do strike, injure and kill israeli civilians....you need to listen to the news before you form such an opinion.