First Windows Phone 8 prices show up at Best Buy

Best Buy has started taking pre-orders for the first of AT&T's Windows Phone 8 handsets. The Nokia Lumia 920 is available in red, yellow, cyan, white, and black for $149.99 on a two-year contract ($599.99 contract free). WPCentral first noticed the product listings.

HTC's high profile Windows 8 device, its Windows Phone 8X, can also be pre-ordered. It's available in its indigo-blue color for $99.99 on a contract ($599.99 without). Best Buy isn't yet showing any shipping date for either handset, saying only that they will "ship when available."

It's worth noting that if the Lumia 920 is viewed as a competitor to current high-end smart phones—say the iPhone 5 or Samsung Galaxy S3—it will come in at a noticeably lower price point. Both of those devices are $199.99 on two-year contracts, but the Lumia 920 can be yours for roughly 25 percent less.

They are still more or less high end phones. MS need to put WP8 on low end phones. MS won't sell millions of pricey phones. WP8 might be great OS, but without big market share, they always will be "weird" phones.

I see no reason why these couldn't be priced the same as the Galaxy S3 and iPhone. Both of these phones are awesome from what I seen on TheVerge and here. This is just icing on the cake for people who already decided to buy them.

The 920 lists for about $50 less too, so being $50 less on contract is reasonable.

The real question is if anyone expects WP 9, 10, and 11 updates for it.

Likely not, but if WP7 is any indication, WP8 itself will get more updates than most Android phones.

That's quite a low bar!

I think there is reason to be skeptical about any updates for phones sold by U.S. carriers. Windows Phone 7 had its share of update issues, even if they were liberally updated compared to the average neglected Android device.

Disclaimer: I own a Galaxy Nexus and have used Android devices that terminated at 2.2 and 2.3.

The 920 lists for about $50 less too, so being $50 less on contract is reasonable.

The real question is if anyone expects WP 9, 10, and 11 updates for it.

Likely not, but if WP7 is any indication, WP8 itself will get more updates than most Android phones.

That's quite a low bar!

I think there is reason to be skeptical about any updates for phones sold by U.S. carriers. Windows Phone 7 had its share of update issues, even if they were liberally updated compared to the average neglected Android device.

Disclaimer: I own a Galaxy Nexus and have used Android devices that terminated at 2.2 and 2.3.

My point is that I think some people seem to have this incredible belief that smartphones should be updated forever, and point to Windows Phone as a failure of that. But the simple fact is there isn't a single smartphone platform that does it.

You know about Android already. Its official updates are terrible on almost any phone/carrier, and only a small minority of people will ever flash their phone.

Apple tells people their old phone will get the new OS, only to exclude most of the features of the new OS, and/or make the old hardware unusably slow (iOS 4 on a 3G, I'm looking at you).

Microsoft was beholden to the carriers for updates in WP7, something they have fixed with WP8, thankfully. WP7 had 3 important updates (and at least one more to 7.8), and it was up to the carrier to allow them to go out. The Lumia 900 I have finally got the Tango update (and the disappearing keyboard fix) after way too long, but at least I did get it. So while it's disappointing that newer Windows Phone devices won't be getting the update to WP8, it's not that surprising, either. It's not a small internal change being made, and a lot of the new features are dependent on new hardware. For example, if I were able to upgrade my Lumia 900 to WP8, the new start screen and new apps written for WP8 are truly the only new things I would get. And the start screen is getting pushed to me via WP 7.8, and the apps would be limited by the fact that my hardware doesn't meet minimum spec for WP8.

They are still more or less high end phones. MS need to put WP8 on low end phones. MS won't sell millions of pricey phones. WP8 might be great OS, but without big market share, they always will be "weird" phones.

How low were iPhones when they released? High prices never stopped them. Granted I'm glad they were able to get subsidized prices, but otherwise their prices have never really hurt them. None of them were priced on the low end until they started keeping previous older models on sale at reduced prices.And here I thought Windows 8 phones were supposedly vastly superior to iPhones. At least all the softies have been telling me that here and elsewhere. If that's the case, why do they feel they feel the need to dump them?

They are still more or less high end phones. MS need to put WP8 on low end phones. MS won't sell millions of pricey phones. WP8 might be great OS, but without big market share, they always will be "weird" phones.

They already have sold millions - nokia is selling a couple million lumias a quarter at this point I think (or is it per year?). It's just a million phones actually isn't very much.

My big question is how much carrier branding and influence MS lets them have. If they do like Apple and control the updates I may take a look. If they do like times past and let's the OEMs and carriers have thier way then this will end quickly

The 920 lists for about $50 less too, so being $50 less on contract is reasonable.

The real question is if anyone expects WP 9, 10, and 11 updates for it.

Likely not, but if WP7 is any indication, WP8 itself will get more updates than most Android phones.

That's quite a low bar!

I think there is reason to be skeptical about any updates for phones sold by U.S. carriers. Windows Phone 7 had its share of update issues, even if they were liberally updated compared to the average neglected Android device.

Disclaimer: I own a Galaxy Nexus and have used Android devices that terminated at 2.2 and 2.3.

My point is that I think some people seem to have this incredible belief that smartphones should be updated forever, and point to Windows Phone as a failure of that. But the simple fact is there isn't a single smartphone platform that does it.

You know about Android already. Its official updates are terrible on almost any phone/carrier, and only a small minority of people will ever flash their phone.

Apple tells people their old phone will get the new OS, only to exclude most of the features of the new OS, and/or make the old hardware unusably slow (iOS 4 on a 3G, I'm looking at you).

Microsoft was beholden to the carriers for updates in WP7, something they have fixed with WP8, thankfully. WP7 had 3 important updates (and at least one more to 7.8), and it was up to the carrier to allow them to go out. The Lumia 900 I have finally got the Tango update (and the disappearing keyboard fix) after way too long, but at least I did get it. So while it's disappointing that newer Windows Phone devices won't be getting the update to WP8, it's not that surprising, either. It's not a small internal change being made, and a lot of the new features are dependent on new hardware. For example, if I were able to upgrade my Lumia 900 to WP8, the new start screen and new apps written for WP8 are truly the only new things I would get. And the start screen is getting pushed to me via WP 7.8, and the apps would be limited by the fact that my hardware doesn't meet minimum spec for WP8.

Making a major change to the platform virtually guarantees that your existing user base:1. Won't get updates from developers, as rare as they were.2. Won't see new apps developed that work on their phone.

As the owner of a sad, cheapo Android 2.3 phone, I certainly don't get Android 4.0.

But I got updates to google store> play, amazon's mp3 app and nytimes app. MS has charted a path where their flagship phone sold a month ago won't be able to run new apps regardless of the apps and phones' system requirements. That's a tough pill to swallow.

Good pricing on that 8X. Really good pricing. I think Nokia needs to watch out because HTC actually made a very attractive phone that seems to be a perfectly viable option to the Lumias. Nokia apps though are what to me will separate the two companies. Nokia has some really nice apps for their Lumias and it seems like that's going to continue.

Now let's see if MS can get the carriers to actually push the phones this time. I'd be perfectly happy with a 3 headed market consisting of iOS, Android, and WP. Keep each other on their toes. I can't see MS letting off the gas with this; they finally have their viable OS in place and there's some really cool stuff they can do with WP8. I just hope people will listen. I don't really care to have to choose between Apple and Google should WP8 just flop (let's be honest, Rim and BB10 is a non-factor here).

The 920 lists for about $50 less too, so being $50 less on contract is reasonable.

The real question is if anyone expects WP 9, 10, and 11 updates for it.

You can only change kernels once.

This didn't stop Kin and Windows Mobile from being cancelled. AFAIK, their kernels were similar if not identical. But I might be mistaken on that.

Regardless, MS has proven that kernel change or not, they are more than willing to bail on a particular OS if it isn't doing it for them. Your answer shows little weight to the contrary.

You can't pin Kin just on MS and you know that. No need to try to skew the history of that failure. Also, WM was around for 12 years in some form or fashion. If you just count the start of it being used in phones, it's been since 2003. That's 8 years of official support. Hardly "willing to bail" if you ask me. You can argue that they needed to innovate more than they did but they supported the platform for far longer than Apple and Google have been in the market. They also saw the writing on the wall with iPhone and decided for a course correction(possibly too late). Can you blame them? If you want the spiritual successor to WM just use Android.

While certainly an option, voiding your warrantee is not really a viable option. I don't really consider this a remedy for the vast majority of users.

Sure there are some users for whom it won't be an option, but it's still a huge step up from the android world where you have to both void your warranty AND figure out how to root your device and flash a build provided by a third party.

I'm not sure what the average warranty length is, but in my case it's under a year. If that's standard then this isn't an issue for users a year after they buy their phone.

Small pricing note, but I got my S3 for $130 a week after launch at Nebraska Furniture Mart. I believe AT&T was advertising their S3's for $150 right at launch. And I've seen plenty of retailers with sales on that model. The MSRP is $200, but it can easily be had for less if you look.

While certainly an option, voiding your warrantee is not really a viable option. I don't really consider this a remedy for the vast majority of users.

Sure there are some users for whom it won't be an option, but it's still a huge step up from the android world where you have to both void your warranty AND figure out how to root your device and flash a build provided by a third party.

I'm not sure what the average warranty length is, but in my case it's under a year. If that's standard then this isn't an issue for users a year after they buy their phone.

While certainly an option, voiding your warrantee is not really a viable option. I don't really consider this a remedy for the vast majority of users.

Sure there are some users for whom it won't be an option, but it's still a huge step up from the android world where you have to both void your warranty AND figure out how to root your device and flash a build provided by a third party.

I'm not sure what the average warranty length is, but in my case it's under a year. If that's standard then this isn't an issue for users a year after they buy their phone.

Or perhaps just have no limit. You know, like iPhone.

That's certainly the ideal.

Given that no other manufacturer has been able to get the carriers to agree to that I think this is a pretty good compromise. Twelve months where you can choose either slower updates or voided warranty followed by same day updates just like the iPhone.

I wish tech sites would spin off their cell-phone news into sister publications, and reserve grown-up tech news for the original sites which *used* to know the difference between a smarmy little cell phone and a full-blown personal computer. But, what else is new?

I wish tech sites would spin off their [PC] news into sister publications, and reserve grown-up tech news for the original sites which *used* to know the difference between a smarmy little [microcomputer] and a full-blown [supermini]. But, what else is new?

I wish tech sites would spin off their [PDP, Nova, Prime, etc.] news into sister publications, and reserve grown-up tech news for the original sites which *used* to know the difference between a smarmy little [mini] and a full-blown [mainframe]. But, what else is new?

The 920 lists for about $50 less too, so being $50 less on contract is reasonable.

The real question is if anyone expects WP 9, 10, and 11 updates for it.

You can only change kernels once.

This didn't stop Kin and Windows Mobile from being cancelled. AFAIK, their kernels were similar if not identical. But I might be mistaken on that.

Regardless, MS has proven that kernel change or not, they are more than willing to bail on a particular OS if it isn't doing it for them. Your answer shows little weight to the contrary.

You can't pin Kin just on MS and you know that. No need to try to skew the history of that failure.

Sure. I guess I'll blame everyone else except for Microsoft. I'll just blame the users for not buying it . Yes, Verizon had a hand in its failure, but no one forced Microsoft into that deal. Keep making more excuses.

Quote:

Also, WM was around for 12 years in some form or fashion. If you just count the start of it being used in phones, it's been since 2003. That's 8 years of official support. Hardly "willing to bail" if you ask me.

I mentioned WM as a reference point. It was the first cancellation, although technically Kin came before it. Now two years later WP7 is cancelled, abandoning an entire line of phones that came out 1/2 year after the iPhone 4, which is still well within its support period.I did not mention WM's as a bad thing, just laying down a timeline. IOW, when are they going to get it right?

Quote:

You can argue that they needed to innovate more than they did but they supported the platform for far longer than Apple and Google have been in the market. They also saw the writing on the wall with iPhone and decided for a course correction(possibly too late). Can you blame them? If you want the spiritual successor to WM just use Android.

Possibly too late? Try three years too late. As far as seeing the writing on the wall? That apparently was written at glacial speeds.I was not saying that it wasn't a bad thing to cancel WM. Only that overall their strategy and execution has been horrible.And Android is more of a spiritual successor to iOS. Before that, they focused on cloning Blackberry.

Maybe--maybe, then we could see publications like ars and so very many more that would be easy to name--actually start writing about grown-up technology like desktop computers and what's new and exciting coming out in that space. Gee, I'll bet there's an untold story there with enough solid material to fill a web site. Once a week, if not daily.

While certainly an option, voiding your warrantee is not really a viable option. I don't really consider this a remedy for the vast majority of users.

Quote:

Sure there are some users for whom it won't be an option, but it's still a huge step up from the android world where you have to both void your warranty AND figure out how to root your device and flash a build provided by a third party.

I'm not sure what the average warranty length is, but in my case it's under a year. If that's standard then this isn't an issue for users a year after they buy their phone.

Or perhaps just have no limit. You know, like iPhone.

That's certainly the ideal.

Given that no other manufacturer has been able to get the carriers to agree to that I think this is a pretty good compromise. Twelve months where you can choose either slower updates or voided warranty followed by same day updates just like the iPhone.

Another compromise to have to be tolerated by an OS ecosystem that advertises "no compromises!"

I'm just pointing out that an alternative product that claims to be much better than its competitor should be, you know...better. Not force the user to compromise. Just saying...

Making a major change to the platform virtually guarantees that your existing user base:1. Won't get updates from developers, as rare as they were.2. Won't see new apps developed that work on their phone.

As the owner of a sad, cheapo Android 2.3 phone, I certainly don't get Android 4.0.

But I got updates to google store> play, amazon's mp3 app and nytimes app. MS has charted a path where their flagship phone sold a month ago won't be able to run new apps regardless of the apps and phones' system requirements. That's a tough pill to swallow.

The overwhelming majority of Windows Phone apps will continue to use managed code (neé XNA), just as the overwhelming majority of Android apps still use Dalvik. Only new apps that use WP8's new native code capabilities won't run on WP7, similar to how you can't run Chrome on your Gingerbread phone. There's no reason existing apps won't continue to be updated for some time, because there's no need for Twitter and CNN to be switched over to native code.

I'm not sure where the massive FUD campaign of "NO APPS WILL EVER RUN ON WP7 EVER AGAIN" got started, though I suspect it rhymes with 'Boopertino.'

I wish tech sites would spin off their cell-phone news into sister publications, and reserve grown-up tech news for the original sites which *used* to know the difference between a smarmy little cell phone and a full-blown personal computer. But, what else is new?

They don't know the difference between tablets and laptops, and some of them actually seem to believe that the runty, malformed, inbred iPad-ish tablet format is going to replace the venerable desktop...! The desktop has been the staple and the backbone of the personal computing universe for decades and many up-and-comers have arrived with great fanfare and then been crushed and mauled under the massive treads of the desktop, like the crunch of terminator-terminated skulls, as the desktop inexorably rolls on into the future, the one form factor out of many which has successfully weathered the decades. And continues on today, unabated. Temporary dips in volume sales related to world economic situations does not mean that demand for desktops is falling, it means that people have less money to spend on all kinds of electronics today than they did a few years ago. But, people too young to have lived through economic cycles before won't automatically know that, and so of course they will get their signals crossed and garbled.

How many times in how many years past have I heard, "The PC is dead! This is it--this time, this time it is for real!"...? But...it never is for real. Never is. For reasons that are so obvious you could lose your mind wondering how people can miss them, over and over again, the brainless mantra sounds, "The desktop is dead!"

Actually, I think an e-zine for thirteen-year-olds to twenty-five-year-olds, entitled, "Bubblegum and Cell Phones," or "E-Z-Duz id!" or "Button Mashin' made E-Z!" or "Getting More than a Dial Tone out of Your Cell Phone!", and so on--the possibilities are endless--would be a great place to feature iPhones and Galaxies and Nokias and all the rest of the stunted cell phone electronics. Feature editorials like, "People who use cell phones have brains, too, and we demand to be heard!" [sic] and that sort of thing, would be a smash hit in that demographic. No doubt. Smack.

Maybe--maybe, then we could see publications like ars and so very many more that would be easy to name--actually start writing about grown-up technology like desktop computers and what's new and exciting coming out in that space. Gee, I'll bet there's an untold story there with enough solid material to fill a web site. Once a week, if not daily.

Is that so hard, really? And I don't intend to jump so much on Peter's case with this, but he, of the varied and multitalented ars writers and contributors, is in a position to know better. Yet often it's as if he's ashamed to admit it. I'd like to see him reach his potential which will never happen if he's only concerned with mixing in with all of the other sheep so that he won't be noticed. By camouflage, one does not become distinguished.

Apple tells people their old phone will get the new OS, only to exclude most of the features of the new OS, and/or make the old hardware unusably slow (iOS 4 on a 3G, I'm looking at you).

According to Ars' review of iOS6 on a 3GS the upgrade is still an improvement. The iOS6 features the 3GS didn't get weren't in older iOS releases anyway. With only two exceptions known to me (said iOS4 on 3G and now the Maps app) new iOS versions haven't regressed compared to the older release.

I wish tech sites would spin off their cell-phone news into sister publications, and reserve grown-up tech news for the original sites which *used* to know the difference between a smarmy little cell phone and a full-blown personal computer. But, what else is new?

They don't know the difference between tablets and laptops, and some of them actually seem to believe that the runty, malformed, inbred iPad-ish tablet format is going to replace the venerable desktop...! The desktop has been the staple and the backbone of the personal computing universe for decades and many up-and-comers have arrived with great fanfare and then been crushed and mauled under the massive treads of the desktop, like the crunch of terminator-terminated skulls, as the desktop inexorably rolls on into the future, the one form factor out of many which has successfully weathered the decades. And continues on today, unabated. Temporary dips in volume sales related to world economic situations does not mean that demand for desktops is falling, it means that people have less money to spend on all kinds of electronics today than they did a few years ago. But, people too young to have lived through economic cycles before won't automatically know that, and so of course they will get their signals crossed and garbled.

How many times in how many years past have I heard, "The PC is dead! This is it--this time, this time it is for real!"...? But...it never is for real. Never is. For reasons that are so obvious you could lose your mind wondering how people can miss them, over and over again, the brainless mantra sounds, "The desktop is dead!"

Actually, I think an e-zine for thirteen-year-olds to twenty-five-year-olds, entitled, "Bubblegum and Cell Phones," or "E-Z-Duz id!" or "Button Mashin' made E-Z!" or "Getting More than a Dial Tone out of Your Cell Phone!", and so on--the possibilities are endless--would be a great place to feature iPhones and Galaxies and Nokias and all the rest of the stunted cell phone electronics. Feature editorials like, "People who use cell phones have brains, too, and we demand to be heard!" [sic] and that sort of thing, would be a smash hit in that demographic. No doubt. Smack.

Maybe--maybe, then we could see publications like ars and so very many more that would be easy to name--actually start writing about grown-up technology like desktop computers and what's new and exciting coming out in that space. Gee, I'll bet there's an untold story there with enough solid material to fill a web site. Once a week, if not daily.

Is that so hard, really? And I don't intend to jump so much on Peter's case with this, but he, of the varied and multitalented ars writers and contributors, is in a position to know better. Yet often it's as if he's ashamed to admit it. I'd like to see him reach his potential which will never happen if he's only concerned with mixing in with all of the other sheep so that he won't be noticed. By camouflage, one does not become distinguished.