Difficulty: ExpertTuesday, August 8, 2006

CHAT LOG for Tuesday, August 8, 2006

Coloring on the threes made it an expert. However, it comes so late that it's easy to spot.

12:38 am

caderoux

EVERYTHING leading up to that is either a hidden or naked single.

2:03 am

rycaut

definitely a much easier expert than usual experts - I used marks but didn't have to make any guesses at all - everything was pretty straightforward (a bit of circular logic that has to be applied but not anywhere near as complex or convoluted as other recent experts have been)

3:10 am

Ninata

done,bye all

3:11 am

Ninata

easier expert one

3:12 am

Ninata

good luck, every one

4:23 am

peternl

hi all

4:32 am

peternl

got mosdt of the way through, then got stuck until I saw a unique rectangle, then it fell out.

5:25 am

jwjjjcjh

5:27 am

jwjjjcjh

5:34 am

MpP

morning

6:24 am

Anne

wow - just one 50:50 guess and it all fell into place

6:37 am

thedave

I honestly think that was the easiest puzzle I've ever seen on this site. Maybe I solve them in a strange way?

6:53 am

chebuctonian

hi all

6:57 am

chebuctonian

this can't possibly be expert level

6:58 am

chebuctonian

either that or I slept really well last night and added some 50 IQ points

7:00 am

yul

hello

7:02 am

chebuctonian

done... hi yul :)

7:02 am

yul

you re a rocket today, chebuctorian

7:04 am

yul

i'm an opposite... a sloth :)

7:49 am

yul

chebuctorian, are you here?

7:59 am

yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?

8:00 am

yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?

8:00 am

yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?

8:00 am

yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?

8:00 am

yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?

8:00 am

yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?

8:00 am

yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?

8:00 am

yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?

8:00 am

yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?

8:00 am

yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?

8:01 am

yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?

8:01 am

yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?

8:01 am

yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?

8:01 am

yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?

8:01 am

yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?

8:01 am

yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?

8:01 am

yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?

8:01 am

yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?

8:01 am

yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?

8:01 am

yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?

8:01 am

yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?

8:01 am

yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?

8:01 am

yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?

8:02 am

yul

well...

8:03 am

yul

i didn't want expect this to happen

8:03 am

Judy

It was easy for an expert. Very straightforward.

8:05 am

yul

at the end, have you used any particular technicue , judy?

8:05 am

yul

i don't see it at the moment...

8:05 am

Judy

I didn't have to guess or anything...just kept plugging in numbers that were eliminated elsewhere.

8:06 am

yul

hm...

8:06 am

yul

may be i made a mistake somewere...

8:08 am

yul

definetly i made a mistake :) i was worried or a moment

8:09 am

Judy

:]

8:09 am

yul

starting again

8:15 am

yul

thank you, Judy

8:16 am

Judy

Did you do it?

8:17 am

yul

:) not yet, just started again. i usually do puzzle without marking, so i'm a bit slower

8:19 am

Judy

Wwhen I see an expert I automatically go green. Well, I'm off. lol

8:19 am

yul

have a good day

8:20 am

RandLS

wow. pretty easy for an expert

8:21 am

RandLS

only 1 real decision point

8:41 am

yul

i was right in the first place. But i don't see how it was possible to illiminate numbers without using an x wing (if i'm correct) :( i never completly understend 'wings' :(

8:43 am

yul

randls, if you are here, could you tell me what was your decision making point?

8:47 am

Onpaki

i did it! although i had to make one wild guess.

8:48 am

yul

that is most unfortunate... i really could yse some explaning how people illiminate today

8:49 am

yul

hi' Onpaki :)

8:50 am

Onpaki

hi yul!

8:50 am

Onpaki

sorry, i didn't 'illuminate'. i sort of cheated.

8:51 am

yul

do you understand x and y wings?

8:51 am

Onpaki

no, what's thats?

8:58 am

yul

Judy told me earlier that all illimination happend automaticly and i just don't see it! I think i saw an x wing made of 9s in the 8 and 9 columns but i am not sure if it is correct x wing. If you would like an explanation, go to http://www.scanraid.com/AdvanStrategies.htm

i used greens because that's what i'm used to doing, but it was so easy to see the solution

9:03 am

yul

you did not use any special technique

9:04 am

caffeinatedelf

right, no special technique - just process of elimination

9:04 am

Phil

please explain a green

9:04 am

hurshy

shift-click, phil

9:04 am

yul

can i pic your brain, elf, please?

9:04 am

hurshy

yeah, that was way easy

9:05 am

hurshy

turns out i am sure i didn't need even greens, only i put some in out of fear cause of the expert label.

9:05 am

yul

hurshy, explain!!!

9:06 am

yul

please

9:06 am

artlady

same here, hurshy

9:06 am

hurshy

just mostly use basic logic... except one time i did use an extra little thing i thought of (i don't know what the technical term for it is...) i will try to explain...

9:08 am

hurshy

if you have a naked pair that are in the same box but also in the same row/column, and then that same pair shows up parallel to that in another box where they are lined up in the same row/column, well, they can't all four be that pair of numbers or it would violate the rule that sudoku must have a unique solution, you'd be able to switch them without affecting anything else. so one of them must go elsewhere. i used that idea today.

9:08 am

yul

please, i could tell you the point i was lost... it really close to the end...

9:09 am

hurshy

it applies in the bottom left box and the bottom middle box, near the end, yes

9:10 am

hurshy

and by "box" i mean group of 9, not single square

9:10 am

hurshy

does that make any sense, yul?

9:11 am

yul

not really, is it 5/8?

9:11 am

hurshy

yeah. so they're naked in the left, and then they are in that group of 3 squares in the next box over, right?

9:12 am

hurshy

so if r8c4 and r9c4 were 5 and 8, then there would be 2 solutions to this puzzle.

9:12 am

hurshy

which means one of them has to go in r7c4, meaning you can eliminate the 9 from that square.

9:13 am

yul

my problem is I don't see how 5/8 is a naked pair in the middle...

9:13 am

hurshy

it isn't naked in the middle

9:13 am

hurshy

in fact that's kind of the point, if they WERE, there would be 2 solutions, which is never supposed to be true of a valid sudoku

9:14 am

hurshy

they CANNOT turn out to be a naked pair in c4 r8 &9.

9:14 am

hurshy

so, again, one of them has to go somewhere else, and in this case, the only else is r7c4. so the 9 which was a possible there, really isn't.

9:15 am

hurshy

and that only leaves one place for the 9 to go in that box.

9:16 am

hurshy

it would be so much easier to explain if i could point. as a math teacher, i am used to pointing at stuff.

9:17 am

yul

hold on, let me see a bit more

9:20 am

hurshy

how goes it there yul?

9:23 am

yul

or hurhy, i am confused... 1: is left box at your laft? 2: what c stands for?

9:24 am

Phil

I'm still not sure what you meant but I must have been stuck at the right point cos once I'd put the 9 in the only place left the rest fell in very easily. Thanks

9:26 am

hurshy

lol, r stands for row and c stands for column

9:26 am

hurshy

and yes, left box is at my left

9:26 am

hurshy

let me try again

9:27 am

hurshy

just picture this. in the fourth column, imagine that you DID have a naked pair of 5 and 8 in the bottom two squares.

9:28 am

hurshy

because there is also a naked pair in the first column parallel to that, that would mean you could go 5, 8, and 8, 5, or 8, 5 and 5, 8, and either way would work just fine.

9:28 am

yul

i immagine

9:28 am

hurshy

well that's no good, sudoku must have a unique solution, it can't have two equally good ones.

9:28 am

yul

i understand, and

9:29 am

hurshy

so that means that EITHER the 5 OR the 8 must go someplace else, and you don't know which yet, but you do know the place else is in the 7th row

9:29 am

hurshy

so the 9 is a no-go there.

9:30 am

hurshy

you got it? have you now placed the 9 in the bottom middle group?

9:31 am

yul

yes, i sow that cause i have 5/8 in c9r7

9:31 am

hurshy

so are you set then?

9:33 am

yul

no, because i have 3589 in c4r7 and 39 in c6r7...

9:33 am

hurshy

hmm, at that point i didn't have a 3 in c4r7...

9:34 am

hurshy

perhaps there are more things you can place with simpler logic first.

9:35 am

hurshy

but it doesn't really matter...the point is, neither the 3 or the 9 can now go there, because either the 5 or the 8 MUST.

9:35 am

yul

that it is my point... somehow i end up with x wing solution

9:35 am

hurshy

and that leaves only one place to put the 9.

9:35 am

hurshy

maybe this is x wing, i dunno, i am not so up on all the terms.

9:37 am

hurshy

do you see what i mean about how c4r7 has to be either 5 or 8 to eliminate the 2-solution-sudoku issue?

9:37 am

yul

:) in c8 & c9 but i don't now if it is a coinsidence or a correct x wing... thank you, hurshy, very much for you effort :)

9:38 am

yul

definetly

9:38 am

hurshy

yw. catch you later yul. :)

9:38 am

yul

thanks, have a good day

9:41 am

Krys10

hurshy, I haven't investigated too carefully myself but I think what you're describing is a unique rectangle

9:41 am

yul

:)

10:03 am

yul

it wasn't a proper x wing i've used. now i know

10:04 am

ShadeEagle

for the record, I have no idea what on earth either unique rectangle and x-wing mean in this context

10:05 am

Stephanie

Hi!

10:06 am

yul

sudoku solvers have explanations, if you interested. did you solve today's puzzle, shadeeagle? hi stephanie

10:07 am

Stephanie

I just upgraded to Pro. How do I get a cute picture by my name?

10:08 am

yul

don't ask me :)

10:09 am

ShadeEagle

nah - I was going to solve it while I was at work in a few hours. still, I've not familiar with those explanation types, although I'm sure I've seen them before

10:09 am

yul

but i could poin you in to cute pic library direction

10:10 am

yul

ok

10:11 am

Stephanie

Ok

10:16 am

yul

sorry, stephany, 'ok' was for sadeeagle :)

10:29 am

RodeoRogue

I just finished my first expert!!! Doing the happy dance again!!!

10:30 am

Stephanie

Yeah RodeoRogue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

10:32 am

sherb

ooh, an expert...

10:34 am

Stephanie

I'm finished!!!!!

10:35 am

Grendel

woo me too

10:42 am

yul

so, no special solving strategies, anybody?

10:44 am

yul

why ,god, oh why I don't see it ???

10:46 am

yul

it is just my luck to look at everything from an unusual ungle...

10:50 am

sherb

tantalising... thought I was going to finish without any little greens... but then...

10:51 am

yul

sherb, do you have 3/6 pair in 6s column?

10:52 am

yul

i meant 3/6 naked pair

10:52 am

yul

o, sorry, it is 3/9..

10:53 am

sherb

no, I have 3/9 pair in that column

10:54 am

yul

2 naked 3/9 in 6s column...

10:54 am

sherb

yes

10:55 am

yul

thanks.

10:55 am

sherb

this is where I usually start guessing...

10:56 am

yul

ha :)

10:56 am

yul

i know what you mean :)

10:57 am

yul

hurshy managed to illiminate 3 in this column, but how I did not have time to ask

10:58 am

sherb

yep, guessing worked... this time... :)

10:59 am

yul

it does, but it is not the point :(

11:15 am

yul

or is it? :)

11:43 am

specificity

...

11:45 am

Limer

Not doing to bad with this expert puzzle today

11:46 am

skizzybiz

yeah, you'll only get stuck toward the end

11:46 am

skizzybiz

then it's the glorified guessing game again

11:46 am

Limer

ok

11:46 am

Limer

look forward to the challenge

11:47 am

skizzybiz

all done!

11:48 am

yul

grrr.. scanraid explanations are so bad!

11:51 am

yul

but hershy was on to something with her's

11:54 am

yul

limer, please, look out for a break through point, i will ask you later. i am determened to understend

11:55 am

Limer

will try

11:55 am

Limer

Ha

11:55 am

Limer

Nailed that puppy!

11:55 am

yul

thanks

11:55 am

Limer

Rank me, baby!

11:56 am

Limer

NO green or red

11:56 am

Limer

Cue theme music

11:56 am

yul

where is it !!!

11:56 am

Limer

get the 3's

11:57 am

yul

how did you choose between 3 and 9 in 6th column?

11:57 am

Limer

and the 9's to where they can only go into one point

11:58 am

yul

limer, that is obvious, but HOW!!!???

11:58 am

yul

did you forsed chain?

11:59 am

Limer

Yes, I looked ahead and saw about 4 moves ahead that the 3 and the 9 would work.

12:01 pm

yul

THANK YOU, i was just so hopping to see that! i could rest in peace now :) i thought i lost any traces of logic

12:02 pm

Limer

Man, I am way behind on puzzles

12:02 pm

yul

i live day by day. what lost is lost ... :)

12:03 pm

Fabregas

word up homies

12:03 pm

Limer

If you join the club, you can do sudokus until they come out your ears.

12:04 pm

yul

thanks, i have a book for that. i love my book

12:04 pm

Limer

Enjoy

12:05 pm

yul

line has to be drawn somewere :D

12:05 pm

Limer

yup

12:06 pm

Limer

You can always join later, if you change your mind

12:09 pm

skrike

phew. that 3 / 9 thing took me forever. finally just took the plunge after not seeing anywhere else to go and got it right.

12:11 pm

yul

yes, i change my mind often. have a nice day everybody

12:11 pm

Limer

I have a whole box of changed minds at home. :-)

12:13 pm

hoaf

Huh. It wasn't 3's and 9

12:13 pm

hoaf

for me, but 5's and 8'

12:13 pm

hoaf

s ... crap. Can't type today.

12:15 pm

specificity

done

12:16 pm

specificity

32 minutes...

12:17 pm

specificity

...

12:21 pm

Fabregas

arghh this is hard

12:51 pm

specificity

done

12:52 pm

Arturion

done twice?

12:52 pm

specificity

no... working on archives, now

12:52 pm

specificity

...

12:52 pm

Arturion

ah... I see. So am I, actually

12:53 pm

specificity

yeah... I had company from out of state for a few weeks and got behind

12:54 pm

Arturion

I just joined a couple weeks ago, so I'm doing all the ones I wasn't here to see

12:55 pm

specificity

ah, so do I. good luck =)

12:55 pm

Arturion

thanks, you too

12:56 pm

specificity

thank you

1:26 pm

hokie carla

now, why, oh why was this one so easy for me, but I can get absolutely nowhere on the 8/2 & 8/6 ones?

1:29 pm

abstract17fr

hi all

1:29 pm

Arturion

hello

1:36 pm

Tsufka

Hi

2:09 pm

Tsufka

hello

4:07 pm

AFShortie

that was too easy

4:58 pm

bech0057

that was way too easy for an expert!

6:57 pm

helenkeller

go

7:17 pm

helenkeller

DONE

7:31 pm

Limer

hey, everyone

7:53 pm

yul

limer,hi, are you here again?

7:53 pm

Limer

yup, here I am again, getting my fill

7:54 pm

yul

fill?

7:54 pm

Limer

Missed 2 days of puzzles, catching up

7:54 pm

Limer

trying to complete August 6th

7:55 pm

yul

i shell live you to it :)

7:55 pm

Limer

Hey, I'm ok, chat away if you want

7:55 pm

hokie carla

me, too. Limer. that and aug. 2.

7:56 pm

Limer

Managed to complete Aug 2, missed the 6th and the 7th

7:58 pm

hokie carla

7th was an easy, IIRC

7:58 pm

yul

thanks was investigating if there is such a thing as "water allergy". It all depends on the defenition of "allergy". In a pure sence there is a reaction but not an allergy. I am sure it is very interesting...:)

8:01 pm

yul

i better go and catch up with a bulk of films I have to watch. good luck with archives