Yeah, it sounds like you haven't followed many MMOs since you played XI at launch, Farron. Pretty much every MMO, including XI to a degree, has changed so that players of all kinds can get some enjoyment out of it, because that's what's expected out of them now. XI's still at the annoying end of the MMO spectrum, however.

But since GW2 is being brought up, there are actually 2 really big things off the top of my head that the game is bringing to the table- the Dynamic Events and No Tank/DPS/Heals. The idea behind Dynamic Events did start a bit in Tabula Rasa, but GW2 takes it to a totally different level from the sound of it, with impromptu parties and such. The No Tank/DPS/Heals is probably the biggest thing is boasts, since it will assumedly eliminate wait times for group content.

And thanks to the idea behind Dynamis Events and content scaling, they won't need to make certain areas confined to certain levels like pretty much every other MMO does, which means exploration can feel more like exploration once again...they don't want to put flying mounts in the game because they want to preserve the scale of the areas, but at the same time, you won't feel obligated to go a specific part of the map if you just want to log in and do some quick quests and level up and such, and you wouldn't need to in order to experience potentially different content.

I'm not too sure what XIV's planning on putting out for show other than pretty graphics. Actually, Farron mentioned "making the game look better than it is", which is funny because that's what a load of other companies do when they're promoting their game, and XI was actually pretty mild by comparison in that regard. I remember Vanguard having all the settings turned up to maximum when they were showcasing the graphics of the game, when any normal person running the game would have it look like a complete piece of crap. Not that it needed any help in that department with the animations it boasted.

At any rate, if they offer another beta for 2.0, there won't be any trap, because you can just try the game before deciding to buy it or not, anyway.

They really should just call it Final Fantasy Online when they relaunch the game with 2.0. Keeping FFXIV in there will hurt it the same way Guild Wars 2's name is hurting that game. ArenaNet is having to work extra hard trying to get people to give it a chance simply because of what the first game was and the gaming community's inclination to believe that this sequel will be more of the same just by name recognition. I don't think the numbered titles carry as much weight as Square thinks, and a rebranding would go far.

I'll be watching, but I'd be lying if I said I was optimistic. I have serious doubts that they'll meet that timeline, basically creating a whole new game and releasing a PS3 version, all in the span of a year or so. We'll see if they can pull it off.

How is ArenaNet having to work extra hard? What gaming community are you referring to? It seems like the only reason final fantasy games still sell is BECAUSE of their title. Not really sure where you are pulling your facts out of. Well, I'm kinda sure, but I rather not say.

The two arn't even really comparable because Guild Wars isn't a video gaming household name like Final Fantasy is, so GW2 isn't going to sell on brand name alone- but it is going to take convincing to get people who weren't interested in the first game to look at the second one, because people will assume something in the same series is more of the same.

In this case though, it is somewhat comparable because the name FFXIV is already a bit infamous in the MMO community. Naming it something completely different wouldn't hurt.

How is ArenaNet having to work extra hard? What gaming community are you referring to? It seems like the only reason final fantasy games still sell is BECAUSE of their title. Not really sure where you are pulling your facts out of. Well, I'm kinda sure, but I rather not say.

First, drop the passive aggressive crap. If you're going to say that I'm pulling it out of my ass, don't be a gigantic pussy about it and just say it straight up. I can handle internet insults, I promise.

Second, it was never meant as a comparison in the manner you took it. I am aware that Final Fantasy is a household name that sells a lot. But it's not a meaningful point because Final Fantasy XIV is an already released title, and one that sold poorly with a very negative stigma currently attached to it. My point is that rebranding the game would help it have one less layer of negativity against it from the get-go, because most folks won't even look at Final Fantasy XIV a second time no matter how much Square Enix improves it for 2.0, all because of how shitty the game was at launch and the reputation it has developed.

In the case of Guild Wars 2, this forum itself is a small but perfect example of a game community where people have very recently been surprised by what Guild Wars 2 has to offer, having mostly ignored the title based off of knowledge of the first game. One of the first Guild Wars 2 threads around here was started by Tenchi two years ago, and the first thing anyone said in response was about Guild Wars 1 and how it was boring. The thread had absolutely nothing to do with Guild Wars 1, but that's the first freaking thing anyone said. Beyond that, no discussion. I posted a new Guild Wars 2 thread a few months ago with some new footage and still no one really seemed all that interested in talking about it. Just another typical MMO, ho-hum. D-Rider's recent thread posted what was mostly old (but good) information that ArenaNet gave out a long time ago, and it has people asking questions such as "is there a consistent overworld this time?" ArenaNet has screamed that the game has a persistent world from the hilltops and people are still asking that question. They keep going over the same old tired questions over and over again in interview after interview because they are fighting against Guild Wars 1 prejudice.

The comparison is over the negative stigmas based on the current titles of each game. You may claim that I'm pulling it out of my ass, but all it would have taken is a quick look at the latest Guild Wars 2 thread and the FFXIV thread on this forum to see what I'm talking about.

I'm going to have to agree with Parn on this one, you really can't make an accurate comparison since both situations are vastly different. Also, the FF name doesn't hold as much weight as it once did, FFXIV was really the capstone to a franchise that was struggling with fans and industry alike. FFXIII sold very well, but was critically panned to the point where they're using FFXIII-2 as a springboard to save face over the major complaints with the first game. GW2 has an uphill climb because it's going to be a very different game than GW1, and not alot of people had much knowledge or interest in the game due to its predecessor.

SE's challenge is going to be transmuting an albatross into a swan. The cat is out of the bag, and while the PS3 market is untapped, the game is fucking kryptonite to potential subscribers. All the progress they've made with the game so far isn't going to convince the vast majority of players who have heard nothing but horror stories of its launch. Them announcing 2.0 with an emphasis of it being a NEW game was probably the smartest PR move they can do right now. If they can deliver on their documented outline and actually "rebrand" the game, people will flock to it. Most of the people who bought the game at launch are pretty stoked about 2.0, and that's a tough crowd to woo after being burned so badly.

ArenaNET has to get the GW2 name out there and sell the game to the public through media, TV spots, etc. Right now, people still don't know too much about the game, and outside of major conventions, there hasn't been any saturation of press coverage. They need to take a page out of RIFT's playbook. That game came out of nowhere, but it was advertised all over the damn place a month before launch and it sold like mad. They also push specials every month, with free weekends every couple months. They even have an update content schedule that is remarkably fast. I can't really comment about the quality of the game, but the marketing and PR management is fucking brilliant. ArenaNET needs to be aggressive with GW2 marketing and PR or they will fail, no matter how good their game is.

I do have a slight correction though. FFXIV did have a decent showing at retail during its first week of sales (~160K units worldwide) that plummeted RAPIDLY after the first month, and stayed down for a long time. What's surprising is that looking over the sales figure of the game, *if* VGchartz can be believed, the current worldwide total sales are over 500K now, with the strongest showing in NA after launch is having been since the introduction of the instanced raids. If they retain even 20% of that, they'll be on par with XI's current playerbase. From personal perspective, since the announcement of 2.0 I have seen ALOT of players coming back to the game. Time will tell if or when the honeymoon will end, because 13 months is an eternity in this industry.

On another note, a couple of really interesting topics have come up in the official forums that I thought would make a good topic of discussion here.

1) The general consensus is that it's too early to start subs in the game's improving, but still incomplete, state. Some people are suggesting a discounted rate till 2.0. Since Yoshida states the game is halfway where they want it to be, many feel that paying a reduced rate of $6-7 month would be a great way to retain subscribers and improve relations with their disenfranchised players. The other side of the coin is that others are stating going from a reduced rate to a full rate when 2.0 hits is going to create backlash and can delay the completion of their project even further. They believe that the potential increase in subs from a decreased rate wouldn't offset the loss of funds from a full-pay model. Then there are those who think people are cheap and will cry and moan since they've had it free for so long. Thoughts?

2) The general English player base can't stand the effeminate look of the male Mi'qote in the concept art. The popular poll has more masculine felines with manes akin to Rei from Breath of Fire:

or the Thundercats (sans spandex). We know how popular the bishy dudes are for the Japanese, but what are your thoughts?

My thoughts are if Rei were to appear in the next ff game, i'd buy it on that note all by itself.

In all honesty, i will probably play this on ps3 just because. I'm still a ff fan deep down, no matter how much i make fun of or bitch about its recent entries. Personally, i just wish they'd make a good game just so i can stop bitching about them.

My thoughts are already known about point 1, so on point 2: the game is a lost cause in the west as far as trying to compete with the likes of The Old Republic, Guild Wars 2, another WoW expansion, and so forth. Having effeminate catboys in their MMO is unlikely to deter fans who are interested in the game in the first place, and having macho beastly catmen wouldn't bring most western players into the game. They may as well stick with what they've got in the concept art.

Rather than shit on the other topic, I'll post my latest thoughts in here.

Reinstalled the game, tried it, uninstalled it about 30 minutes later. It's improved, but when an unoptimized beta client for Guild Wars 2 looks, feels, plays, and runs far better than Final Fantasy XIV does after all this time, it's pretty eye-opening. I can see how they're slowly turning this game into FFXI-2, and that's cool but... they should've waited until 2.0 before trying to bring people back. The engine that this game is currently running on is so fucking terrible, it's even worse than I remember. SWTOR and all of Hero Engine's shittiness runs infinitely better than Final Fantasy XIV. The game feels like you're running through mud at all times. I don't know how I tolerated it before.

Square made a big mistake. Again, I seriously think this was a terrible time to try to bring people back. They sure as hell didn't win me over. I'm out, again. Back to waiting for Dragon's Dogma and more Guild Wars 2 beta weekends.

Totally agree with you on the engine. Some areas it runs great, others it just chugs, even on a good machine. Engine aside, the game has come a loooong way. I think that for people who expect it to play like a newer MMO will be disappointed. The gameplay is way too slow, but as an evolution of XI it's spot on. For alot of people that's what they want. Here is hoping 2.0 gets an infusion of modern.