Endless Sphere

Aussie EV Autocross Special

Re: Aussie EV Autocross Special

Posted: Aug 25, 2016 6:49 pm

by galderdi

drewjet wrote:Or add a large relay that bypasses the controller. Kind of like a turbo button. first accelerate through the controller, then bypass it and you know that you are getting 100% juice to the motor

I sorta like the idea, but I am not sure how long I could press the bypass button before melting stuff. If I have a choice between reliably keeping the performance as is or doubling performance but risking components I will take the first option. I just can't afford to be replacing components left, right and centre.

Re: Aussie EV Autocross Special

Posted: Aug 25, 2016 10:10 pm

by Hillhater

galderdi wrote:....., but I am not sure how long I could press the bypass button before melting stuff. ....

...all the more reason to get that instrumentation installed !
So you can tell exactly what is happening

Re: Aussie EV Autocross Special

Posted: Aug 26, 2016 2:58 am

by drewjet

galderdi wrote:

drewjet wrote:Or add a large relay that bypasses the controller. Kind of like a turbo button. first accelerate through the controller, then bypass it and you know that you are getting 100% juice to the motor

I sorta like the idea, but I am not sure how long I could press the bypass button before melting stuff. If I have a choice between reliably keeping the performance as is or doubling performance but risking components I will take the first option. I just can't afford to be replacing components left, right and centre.

It is the beauty of electric power. With very basic instrumentation, you can
1, Know exactly what is going on.
2. Slow increase your performance, right up to the point of a meltdown.
3. Don't need a dyno to extract information to maximize performance.

Once you get that CA installed, you are going to wonder how you survived without it. I hope you got the CA logger as well.

Good luck, I really like where you are going with this.

Re: Aussie EV Autocross Special

Posted: Aug 28, 2016 7:17 pm

by galderdi

Thanks again guys. Yeah I am looking forward to having more data. Unfortunately it hasn't arived just yet and won't be installed before the next event (this weekend). But thats ok I am really focused on khanacross and the next one of those isn't until November.

Here is a walkaround of the vehicle requested by one of my followers.

Re: Aussie EV Autocross Special

Posted: Sep 05, 2016 8:38 pm

by galderdi

I had another motorkhana on Sunday. I had a suspension member fail as a result it overloaded my system resulting in a blown precharge resistor. So the next time I started the car it sent a current surge through and blew the controller. So I think the universe is telling me "You need a better controller" Who am I to argue with the universe.

The incident occured on my last run of the day. Until that point the car and I were both performing fairly well. There are quite a few videos available. Search Youtube for Full Charge Motorsport.

Re: Aussie EV Autocross Special

Posted: Sep 26, 2016 8:57 pm

by galderdi

I now have the replacement controller and almost all the peripheral components. I might need a few odds and sods like wire, plugs and terminals etc but otherwise I should have everything I need to get this thing running the way it should.

I started on the replacement suspension control arms on the weekend. But I underestimated the effort involved. I think there is realistically another 2 days effort to complete the suspension.

The new controller is significantly different from the old one so I will need to rethink a lot of my mounting and wiring to accomodate the new components. I also now have a cycle analyst.

I will start by installing a new fuse block which will provide more fuses to handle the increased number of components. It will also help neaten up some of the wiring. The physical mounting will also be a challenge.
I plan to mount the new controller in the same location as the old controller but I will need to work out how to bolt it on through the heat sink.
There is an additional Hall effect current sensor I will need to mount somewhere.
There is the Cycle analyst display which I plan to mount on the front support of my roll cage.
There are two contactors where I only had one previously (This shouldn't be a big deal)
There is a display with the controller which I will need to weather proof (probably with another lunch box)
There is a central core unit that is fairly contained but still needs to be mounted somewhere.
Then there are 4 BMS modules which also need to be mounted somewhere (near the batteries preferably)

I suspect all this will take a few weekends. Luckily I have a long weekend this weekend and I still have all of October to get it finished and running. I will provide an update in a few weeks.

Re: Aussie EV Autocross Special

Posted: Sep 27, 2016 2:26 am

by kiwiev

So spill the beans whats the controller and most importantly the specs

Cheers Kiwi

Re: Aussie EV Autocross Special

Posted: Sep 27, 2016 6:43 pm

by galderdi

It's the Zeva 1000amp controller. I have chosen every option known to man. This setup should be well and truely overkill for my purpose. As I was forced to spend more money I didn't want to take the chance of it still falling short of my expectations.
You can see the details here: www.zeva.com.au

I chose this setup because it is sturdy, has the specifications I wanted, has local (Australian) support and the price is reasonable. But also being local I was confident they could deliver in the timeframe I required, still leaving enough time for me to install it before the next event. I considered getting the 600amp variant but I didn't want to take the risk of paying all that money and still not seeing the performance I am after.

I know there are options with more capacity and others with lower prices. But I am totally out of practice building my own components and after my last experience I wanted technical support and delivery from this country.

Also The guys at Zeva have been extremely supportive. I wish I could say the same for Curtis.

November should be an exciting month for me. I am aiming for a 1st place outright and won't be happy with anything less than a podium spot.

On other news I ran in the 2016 Australian Khanacross Chamionship in Proserpine 8 days ago. I cam 7th outright and 4th in class in a Subaru Liberty. I was coming 4th outright on bitument on day 1 but my lack of experience in the car and on dirt cost me on day 2. But the reason I mention it here isn't those results. The interesting thing for me is that the Batt mobile would have been eligable to run. I would just need to find some tyres suitable for dirt. The outright winner of the event was an MX5 that had been in a roll over, then a roll cage added and then all the doors and body removed. So basically if was an Mx5 Floor plan and running gear with a roll cage. There were no other modifications. So it was quite similar to the Batt mobile (other than being rear wheel drive and running on dinosaur juice). So this has inspired me to get the Batt mobile up to speed and try it on the circuits up there. Its a really long haul to get there and back but I think I could do really well. It wouldn't be the Australian champs though. The next Australian champs is in Tasmania 2017 which isn't really appealling to me but maybe I'll come around to that.

Re: Aussie EV Autocross Special

Posted: Sep 29, 2016 11:43 pm

by galderdi

design image.JPG (65.53 KiB) Viewed 2185 times

Here is an initial design for my next project. The last car was more suited to Khanacross. It could do motorkhana too but it was never going to be competitive due to the size and weight. This new project will be dedicated to motorkhana. The target is to be sub 300kg and it will use the ADC 8 inch motor. I will need to tweak a few of the dimensions and the batteries won't sit like that. I will probably slide the driver to the right by a couple of inches and place all the batteries down the left side.

I already have the motor, but realistically it is about 18 months off. I don't want to distract from getting the Batt mbile from being competitive at khanacross. I hope to have the next car ready to compete mid way through 2018. I will use 2018 to iron the bugs out in preparation for an all out asault on the 2019 season.

Re: Aussie EV Autocross Special

Posted: Oct 01, 2016 3:23 am

by kiwiev

galderdi wrote:

design image.JPG

Here is an initial design for my next project. The last car was more suited to Khanacross. It could do motorkhana too but it was never going to be competitive due to the size and weight. This new project will be dedicated to motorkhana. The target is to be sub 300kg and it will use the ADC 8 inch motor. I will need to tweak a few of the dimensions and the batteries won't sit like that. I will probably slide the driver to the right by a couple of inches and place all the batteries down the left side.

I already have the motor, but realistically it is about 18 months off. I don't want to distract from getting the Batt mbile from being competitive at khanacross. I hope to have the next car ready to compete mid way through 2018. I will use 2018 to iron the bugs out in preparation for an all out asault on the 2019 season.

Whats the donor runing gear going to be mate?

Cheers Kiwi

Re: Aussie EV Autocross Special

Posted: Oct 03, 2016 7:08 pm

by galderdi

Apparently the dimensions used for the drive train are for a golf gear box. Apparently the factory 2nd gear should give me the ratio I need. The suspension will be bespoke. The hubs and discs are unknown at the moment. The guy who did the CAD work is talking me into motorcycle parts but I am struggling to get my head around how to mount it all together. I will take some better pics of his for inspiration.

Re: Aussie EV Autocross Special

Posted: Oct 04, 2016 3:33 am

by kiwiev

What is your max speed? And I guess you need reverse?
Cheers Kiwi

Re: Aussie EV Autocross Special

The new car will be purely for motorkhana so max speed around 60kmph. Any more than that is wasted. Yes I need reverse. I hope to run an electric reverse but I need to find a solution to prevent me from flicking it into reverse while current is still flowing.

Re: Aussie EV Autocross Special

Posted: Oct 05, 2016 3:06 am

by kiwiev

You know you need to win lotto mate

The ideal solution would be a HPEV AC 50 77Hp 120 ft lb with reverse at the flick of a switch no contactor needed and if your running gear iis up to it you can do it while rolling forward.
$6, 600 including controller and only weights 52 Kg that includes readout gauge and contactor and I have the OEM programmer.
Also you wouldn't needs brakes with Regen just drive it with one pedal.
120 volts 650 Amps
And I haven't blown one up not like your DC motor which I have.

Cheers Kiwi

Re: Aussie EV Autocross Special

Posted: Oct 05, 2016 10:57 pm

by galderdi

kiwiev wrote:You know you need to win lotto mate

The ideal solution would be a HPEV AC 50 77Hp 120 ft lb with reverse at the flick of a switch no contactor needed and if your running gear iis up to it you can do it while rolling forward.
$6, 600 including controller and only weights 52 Kg that includes readout gauge and contactor and I have the OEM programmer.
Also you wouldn't needs brakes with Regen just drive it with one pedal.
120 volts 650 Amps
And I haven't blown one up not like your DC motor which I have.

Cheers Kiwi

Well that is still worth considering. I am up for the cost of a controller for the project anyway so the price gap isn't too massive when taking that into consideration. I am confused though. Are these DC motors or AC? All the stats seem to point to DC but the Motor code indicates AC?

Re: Aussie EV Autocross Special

Posted: Oct 06, 2016 3:19 am

by kiwiev

galderdi wrote:

kiwiev wrote:You know you need to win lotto mate

The ideal solution would be a HPEV AC 50 77Hp 120 ft lb with reverse at the flick of a switch no contactor needed and if your running gear iis up to it you can do it while rolling forward.
$6, 600 including controller and only weights 52 Kg that includes readout gauge and contactor and I have the OEM programmer.
Also you wouldn't needs brakes with Regen just drive it with one pedal.
120 volts 650 Amps
And I haven't blown one up not like your DC motor which I have.

Cheers Kiwi

Well that is still worth considering. I am up for the cost of a controller for the project anyway so the price gap isn't too massive when taking that into consideration. I am confused though. Are these DC motors or AC? All the stats seem to point to DC but the Motor code indicates AC?

No they are AC induction high performance motors IMO they good reliable value considering you get the wiring harness, contactor, instrumentation and logging, controller and motor same mounts as your DC motor.

And I have held them at 8500 rpm for over 10 minutes I couldn't do that with a DC motor.

Cheers Kiwi

Re: Aussie EV Autocross Special

Posted: Nov 07, 2016 10:16 pm

by galderdi

Quick Update:

I have installed the new controller, BMS and related systems. However I am striking a couple of errors. I have been progressively working my way through them but I am at a dead end.
The two remaining errors are Precharge error and Insulation fault.

The precharge error comes up when I am plugged into my 100V Lead acid pack but goes away when I plug into my 170v Lithium pack. So I am fairly confident this will be caused by the 100V being under some minimum voltage threshold.

I have measured the resistance from the chassis to the Traction battery and I am seeing infinite resistance (I would think this is a good thing). But even with the motor disconnected I am receiving the insulation error.
The manual talks about the system measuring any power across the chassis but I have not connected anything to the chassis. I suspect that might be the cause of the error. The diagram does not clearly state where the chassis should be connected. I only see 3 ground connections in the wiring diagram: 1 to the 12v battery, 1 to the Current sensor and 1 to the Temp sensor. None of these stand out as being the chassis circuit. I'd rather not guess.

I have sent an Email to the supplier of the system. Given the time difference I expect a response in a couple of days.

Unfortunately these errors caused me to miss my last event which was a Khanacross held last Sunday. Hopefully I can get it all sorted before the next event whigh is a Motorkhana on Nov 27th.

Re: Aussie EV Autocross Special

Posted: Nov 08, 2016 3:04 am

by kiwiev

Bugger mate that's Bloody frustrating

Cheers Kiwi

Re: Aussie EV Autocross Special

Posted: Nov 10, 2016 8:52 pm

by galderdi

The vendor has responded. I think I get around the Precharge error. The insulation error could be due to the legacy shunt from my old meter. The new system might be seeing the drop in voltage and mistaking it as leakage to the chassis. I had thought the new system was somehow looking for power directly on the chassis but that is not the case. It just looks for unexpected power draw on the traction circuit. At least that gives me some ideas what I should try. First I will try moving the system connection to the other side of the shunt. If that doesn't work I'll check the configuration to understand what the limits are. If all else fails I might try removing or bypassing the shunt.

At least I now have some more information to work with.

Re: Aussie EV Autocross Special

Posted: Nov 15, 2016 2:19 am

by galderdi

I was fairly ill over the weekend so I hardly touched the car. However I managed to make more progress in 10 minutes than I had in the prevous 3-4 weekends combined.

It turns out it helps if you turn the system on. (Ok that makes it sound a bit to simple/embarrassing).

In reality there are stages to turning it on. On the old system I noticed a problem with the voltage but proceeded to activate the final switch anyway which caused a small explosion in the old controller. On the new system when I received the error at that same stage I was hesitant to activate that final switch. But it turned out all the errors disappeared once it was fully operational. It was to some degree a leap of faith.

I am not out of the woods yet but it does give me hope for the next event on Nov 27.

Re: Aussie EV Autocross Special

Posted: Nov 20, 2016 7:54 pm

by galderdi

I made some great progress on the electric car this weekend. I have now adjusted the rear suspension. The camber on the right rear wheel is now the same as the left rear. More importantly I managed to get it running again with the new controller. I did need to introduce a manual precharge resistor and switch off the one built into the system. I also found an error in my throttle wiring, which took about 30 minutes to correct.

With my next event looming next Sunday I couldn't afford too much testing time as I won't have time to recharge the batteries fully. But I did a few test runs and the results are promising. I started at an output of 500amps and increased to 600amps for the later tests. I also decreased the throttle ramping as I was experiencing some noticeable delay in throttle response.

I still have a few bits and pieces that need to be done before next sunday but they are all fairly minor.

The next update should be a report on how it/I perform this Sunday.

Re: Aussie EV Autocross Special

Posted: Nov 27, 2016 10:15 pm

by galderdi

The event went quite well. I haven't seen the results yet but I should be a fair way up the standings.
I did make a bit of a mistake on my third run when I got a bit sideways right at the end and found myself across the finish line but unable to cross it. I had to do an extra loop so I could cross the line. It would have cost me a few extra seconds. I was up against a heap of Porsches and Clubmans. It was 35 degrees Celsius so controller heat was a concern but it survived.

Re: Aussie EV Autocross Special

Posted: Nov 28, 2016 5:02 am

by kiwiev

Nice driving mate, looks like the car is performing well

Cheers Kiwi

Re: Aussie EV Autocross Special

Posted: Nov 28, 2016 5:33 pm

by galderdi

Thanks. I managed 6th outright beating 8 out of the 10 Porsches and all 4 Caterhams. Fairly happy with that. But there is still room for improvement. I have a list of tweaks to make. I am confident those changes would have seen me jump up to 4th at least. But at the end of the day this was motorkhana and the car will always be better suited to Khanacross. So I am really looking forward to the 2017 Khanacross season.

Re: Aussie EV Autocross Special

I achieved a 1st in class for the khanacross season and a 2nd in class for the motorkhana season (yes there were others in my class).
I also achieved 1st in class for the Vice president's motorkhana (single event).
Since the last event I have learned of some minor configuration issues that were introducing some throttle lag and limiting the current/acceleration to around half the capacity. I have rechecked the wiring diagram and I can see I need to re-wire it so it retains connection to the aux battery between runs. Then it will retain the Throttle ramp setting of 0 instead of 1 and max motor amps of 800+amps instead of defaulting to 500amps. So I am super confident I can see some significant improvements in the coming year.

The 2016results are reasonable results considering it was largely a development year. I have certainly learnt heaps and I am now aiming for outright results in 2017.