Welcome to the forum !Spend some time to go through the relevant threads and you will find that many people are also keeping koi in large F/G tanks because they do not have the space for a pond as yet.Even though a pond is the preferred way to go, as long as you keep the numbers reasonable, a decent filter, and practice good water keeping, you should be able to have a few for enjoyment.How big a tank can you fit in to the space that you have available ?

A picture of your available space would be useful, but based on what you have stated, you could have for example a 6 feet x 3 feet ( width ) x 2.5 feet ( depth ) tank. This would give you 45 cubic feet or close to about 240 - 260 imp gallons depending on how you fill up almost to the top.This is what I have been using for my quarantine tanks, but I also use one for three of my favorites. I started with 9 carefully selected tosai and reduced the number to 3 after a year and a half. The 3 are quite good quality ( pond standard, not show standard ) and are tame, easy to look after, and give me much enjoyment.Some people will want to spend the same amount of money on 3 from the beginning. This will give you the benefit of selecting from more grown up koi - this is a big advantage.I am using a simple filter that fits on top of the tank, but you have space for an external filter if you so wish.Undoubtedly, some will carry higher stocking levels, and they will have a bit more of work to do compared to me. For them, in addition to the extra work to keep the water healthy, they will also need to have emergency measures in place in the event of an power failure, water rationing, etc, but yes, it can be done but you fast approach the border line with every additional new fella that you put in.

This is to just give you an idea as to what I personally meant by " reasonable numbers " to keep.

Thanks for your inputs Mike. What I have read is minimum to have 400 to 500 gallons per koi. With the lower volume of water in a f/g tank I believe there must be more diligent water changes. I have read that bakki shower can reduce nitrates, thus achieving a better water quality. But that setup may be more invasive to the limited space I have. Let's say I go for a 6x3x2.5 setup. With regular feeding, may I know how often should I change the water? Can I say the main reason we change the water is to reduce nitrates and introduce fresh minerals to the pond? The idea I'm thinking is to raise tosai and enjoy seeing it grow, also not to mention that would be a lower startup cost. But that's my limited knowledge that I have about koi. Therefore I appreciate the advise you have given so far :). Attached is a picture of the space I have right now. Currently the space is taken up by a 8ft Intex pool. www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/15712/image.jpg

Most koi will grow big from tosai under most conditions. There's also bonsai koi, where growth is purposely stunted to keep them small. However, a 6 feet x 3 feet ( width ) x 2.5 feet ( depth ) tank is too small for 2 adult koi to live in. So it depends what koi you want to keep now and in the future.

I suggest you measure up your area to see how much space you can spare. If you go to waist or even chest level, it gives you more water to have more koi, and bigger koi.

There's no need to go Bakki.

My thought is: For healthy water conditions, at least 10-25% total weekly water change. Fish do not like large changes in parameters, so it's best to do small water changes, but regularly. Meaning instead of 25% on a Sunday, maybe 5% everyday. To assist in that, add in a water trickle that add fresh tap water 24/7 at a slow rate. One don't really need to dechlorinate if water is added at 1-10% slowly over 24hrs. A water trickle also automatically top up water loss through evaporation or others. You can use pond water to water your plants too (if there's no salt in it).

Consider the principles in the ERIC system:1)Take out mechanical waste regularly (daily).2)Clean out bio-section regularly3)Little time and effort required to do the above.4)Small and compact for its capability

First question I have - what are the kids going to think of you if you replace their swimming pool ? :-D

Other than that, looks like sufficient space, you may even consider a tank one size larger ( always go for the largest you can conveniently fit in ), and also looks mostly covered where you do receive some sunlight, plus what looks like a nearby drain to discharge your waste water. All important plus points.

Second question - do you plan on growing Jumbos ? If you do, then you will need a pond in 2 years. If you do not mind them slightly smaller, the next size up F/G tank will bring you another 100+ imp gallons and ( in my own experience and opinion ) sufficient for you to raise 3 healthy and respectable adults.

Again from my own personal experience only - a simple over and under filter with the correct materials will suffice, and a Hi Blo 40 will supply adequate aeration through 2 filter stones in the tank, and 1 in the filter. I have not needed anything else for years.

As for water change, I do not have a bottom drain for my F/G tanks - too much trouble. When I want to do a cleaning job, I only use a simple elbow made from pvc pipes, plug it into the filter outlet, and agitate the media vigorously, so that the muck is emptied into a nearby drain. I may from time to time, also use a small submersible pump ( suspended with a string and moved around the bottom of the tank ) to pump out the bottom whenever i feel a bit more hard working. This is why I was looking at your picture to see where you were going to dump all the rubbish water. This simple set up has worked for me for years, and leaves me with adequate time to manage my small 2000 gallon garden pond.

Our boss moderator has also given you sufficient pointers to start with. You need to do some homework as well as to budget in the test kits. As for medication - I am one of the lucky ones - have not had to buy medicine for as long as I can remember.

Nearly forgot. With my F/G set ups explained above, I change approx 20% - 25% every 2 weeks. Sometimes when I have time, maybe every 7 days or so. I flush the filters minimum about once a month. No problems with any of the measured water parameters.

This works out to a few hours every 2 weeks - and does give me time to relax at my other hobby - fishing. :)

Thanks Shukri for editing the picture and the pointers. Will need to read up more.

TommyC, wow chest level above ground would bee to high. And also avert sturdy tank is needed :D. A trickle system seems a good idea.

Mike, the pool is very seldom used now. Recently used for the water rationing. Of course I have to be realistic, I can't expect jumbo size koi with a small setup compared to a full scale pond :D. Can you explain on the under filter? As in bottom filter? May I know what is your water change regime for your fibre tank?

" ... simple over and under " filter I am referring to is the normal ( box and lid with all pipes already added ) 4 chamber one that fits on top of the tank. You can actually choose from a few sizes. I use the largest which gives more volume, and is a bit deeper.All koi shops can give you advise on the filter material to use and I use ordinary Japanese mat which they cut to size for me. Coarse in the first section, and fine in the others. I also use a bit of coral ( in a net ) in the final section. It is fed by a submersible pump that you can buy anywhere.Remember to fabricate the drain pipe as well - 2 x 90 degree elbows joined with appropriate lengths of pipe. This device makes it very easy to flush your filter without dirtying the water.

Their prices are quite good, they also have the filter boxes, and include delivery. Look also at their filter media, pumps, plastic hoses, air stones, food, etc. etc. etc. Would help if you compile a list as they are quite far away from city center. They also have a useful catalog which you can take away for future reference.

Don't expect to get too much advice on Koi keeping though ...

And yes, don't forget to take your shoes off when you go into the shop. Apparently this is established practice even though they are quite kind about it and nobody screamed the first time I accidentally tromped in. :-D

<blockquote rel="Mfwlee">" ... simple over and under " filter I am referring to is the normal ( box and lid with all pipes already added ) 4 chamber one that fits on top of the tank. You can actually choose from a few sizes. I use the largest which gives more volume, and is a bit deeper.
All koi shops can give you advise on the filter material to use and I use ordinary Japanese mat which they cut to size for me. Coarse in the first section, and fine in the others. I also use a bit of coral ( in a net ) in the final section. It is fed by a submersible pump that you can buy anywhere.
Remember to fabricate the drain pipe as well - 2 x 90 degree elbows joined with appropriate lengths of pipe. This device makes it very easy to flush your filter without dirtying the water.

No worries if you do not intend having Jumbo's. Not all of us do.</blockquote>

Sifu Mike. I'm trying to figure out the 2x 90 degree elbow join. Shouldn't I need only 1 for the outlet when I do the agitating/flushing?

So I gathered that I would need a fgt, box filter, pump, filter media, piping, air blower and air curtain. Anything else that I missed? Any recommendation for a good value pump that is efficient and doesn't heat up too much?

All submersible pumps will generate heat, but I do not have the resources to do a comparison. What I do have is empirical evidence that at least one of them appears suitable - the one that I currently use.As for the elbow, think about a pipe that connects to the outlet of your filter - firstly it will need a 90 degree elbow to clear the side of the tank. The second 90 degree elbow is so that you can dump the water downwards towards a convenient drain.I slip this on with the pump still running, and then I agitate the media with my hands. The dirty water gets dumped into the drain. I then remove the elbow, and refill with treated water.I am overdue for a another visit to Eng Hin - give me a call and I can accompany you there - and this time I will wear socks that do not have a hole in them ! :-D

Have pm'd you as well. The 26th of June is fine. You want to meet in my house before we go ?In the meantime, compile your shopping list - I will try to persuade somebody else to come along. He knows them very well. :)

Its actually wood with carbon fibre. I only have three socalled capalang koi as these were from a wholesale nursery which were placed in a quarantine area due to sickness. Git them for RM2 each so decided to save them instead of them being culled. Anyway am going to build a pvc pipe roof structure as these days are too hot and the water now is green

Thanks to bro mike for accompanying me to get the fgt and showing me your pond and your other hobbies. Appreciate it.

My tank was set up on 28th June and is entering the 2nd week now. The nitrite spike seems to be reading 0 now after a couple of water changes during the first week. I was using some matured media from my decommissioned aquarium together with some newly boughht china made bh. Needless to say there are some fishes swimming in there now. I didn't plan for this so soon though. Lol.

I'm using a overhead filter. The media are arranged as follows. First chamber is some brushes, followed by mat and wool filter then at the bottom of the third chamber, I placed some corals and on top ceramic rings, the forth chamber, bh at the bottom and a mixture of biohome and ehiem substrate pro. The salanity is around 0.2%. Any comments sifus?

Thanks bro harryyew.... Bro izrul, yes 1 kohaku and one sanke. The kohaku is skinny though and has a s shaped body.... At this point not sure how much bioload my filter can cope with. Still exploring.

I'm feeding the floating pellets and also tried sinking pellets. They do not hesitate with the sinking pellets.... I'm wondering how do I guage how much food is enough for them? The time they spend eating? They eat the sinking much faster than they do floating. Any advise shifu?

Thanks bro mike. I have tested randomly for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Since last week I did not detect any ammonia and nitrite. Just nitrate present. However I didn't check for ammonia after feeding tho. Should I check for ammonia after feeding? If so how long after feeding?

Here is a picture after the refresh powder cleared up. I have a fan blowing across the tank to reduce the tank temperature during this hot weather spell. Will continue to keep a lookout on the water parameters. www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/16094/image.jpg

On my part, I normally check water parameters in the morning before I feed. Considering that the fellas have not been fed all night, this should give me the " best " water conditions in the tank. Any spike is therefore serious and should be attended to.What's that I see - your population is growing ? :-))

Bro, get the high speed fans that looks like the one below. They are roughly about RM100 and consumes around 40Watts of power. Sizewise around 9-10 inches. Pretty sure you can get around 26C with this similar to what I'm getting now.

Thanks bro vic_slash20 & bro chengaun. It's just A basic setup. I have some coral chips to buffer the ph. Filter abit on the small side. Need to control the feeding, else it gets brownish with more feeding.

Sifus, when I started the fgt setup, I was hoping that the kois would come up to the surface when I'm near or feeding them. However, in reality they are shy and would only come up and feed when I'm out of sight :(. Not what I imagined. Lol. I tried starving them for a few days and still reluctant to greet me. Any advise? Below is a pic of the I just took.

sorry to say after looking at your photo your fish dont look healthy. as what Ikankoikau San say a leader koi may help on the feeding issue but of cause a good tip top water condition is needed to bring them back in shape.

Keeping in FGT is ok just that you need a tip top filtration system to maintain the water quality at all time. you dont need the above if you have good water coming in to the FGT all the time.

Thanks for your inputs bros. Will a chagoi of the same size help of a juvanile one? Coz getting a big one will further deteriorate the water.

Bro jason_sg. Thanks for your honest comments. Yup they are shy eaters and I don't feed them often partly because they are shy and also to prevent water the water to go bad too fast. The no3 reading is around 40-50 ppm. Is that too high?

Nitrates are a natural by-product of the bacterial "reduction" or removal of Ammonia and Nitrite in the natural pond's ecosystem. Nitrates are an under-estimated fish killer. When fish are sick, and the history contains some information to suggest the pond has been set up for a while, you can bet Nitrate levels are part of the problem. This is especially true for Goldfish and "flipover" disease. Once dismissed as a "non" threat to Koi and Goldfish, exceptional information exists to suggest this is not true. Scientists initially evaluating Nitrates as a toxin did not test their subjects long enough. Nitrate accumulations cause dilation of the veins in the fins and other health problems. Never let your nitrate levels exceed 100 ppm or illness and vulnerability to disease will be the result!

Nitrate control in Koi care:

1. Made from Nitrite by Nitrobacter

2. Toxic above 120 ppm (Nitrate test)

3. Signs include red streaking in fins, dilated blood vessels in fins and skin, "heavy" smelling water, and lethargic fish. Folks with fish which are "poor doing" can be rewarded to check Nitrates. Chronic illness or susceptibility to disease are often caused by high Nitrates.

4. Ideal range: 20-60 ppm is acceptable.

5. Do massive water changes to reduce levels below 80 ppm.

6. Remove by water changes. Allow algae to grow on the liner.

7. If you usea algae destroyer, you will have no plant Nitrate utilization. This can be hazardous.