So for those who didn't get to read the article, the writer thinks that the Model X, which will sell for about the same price as the Model S and will be released in 2014, has the price tag of Tesla's currently unnamed family sedan, which will cost $40k and is planned for release in 2015.

The Madd Mann:So for those who didn't get to read the article, the writer thinks that the Model X, which will sell for about the same price as the Model S and will be released in 2014, has the price tag of Tesla's currently unnamed family sedan, which will cost $40k and is planned for release in 2015.

In other words, another fine piece of online journalism.

From the woman working at the Tesla store, the $40K family sedan is supposed to be called the Model E.

I love the whole "Tesla has made a nice car, but really hasn't made a dent in the auto market" bullshiat.

The company is, what, 6 years old? It's mainstream car has been out for 1 year. It has sold 28,000 freaking Model S, at an average of $90K or so. European deliveries are just starting, China is getting geared up, they are still selling them faster than they can make them. Model X pre-orders are rumored to be around 8,000K so far (that's with a 5K deposit too).

As a comparison

Clearly Audi, BMW, Mercedes and Porsche haven't made a dent in the auto market because they don't sell a 20K car that has a 700 mile range and self charges via solar panels while actively synthesizing diamonds from CO2 is scavenges from the highways.

alywa:I love the whole "Tesla has made a nice car, but really hasn't made a dent in the auto market" bullshiat.

The company is, what, 6 years old? It's mainstream car has been out for 1 year. It has sold 28,000 freaking Model S, at an average of $90K or so. European deliveries are just starting, China is getting geared up, they are still selling them faster than they can make them. Model X pre-orders are rumored to be around 8,000K so far (that's with a 5K deposit too).

As a comparison

[b-i.forbesimg.com image 398x411]

Clearly Audi, BMW, Mercedes and Porsche haven't made a dent in the auto market because they don't sell a 20K car that has a 700 mile range and self charges via solar panels while actively synthesizing diamonds from CO2 is scavenges from the highways.

In other words, your blog sucks.

I have no idea what you're griping about. They haven't made any dent. That's kind of the point of where they're going with all this. To release the tech to premium buyers at a low volume to bring the costs down so that they CAN turn around and make a dent with a more affordable car.

And I have no idea what you think the point of that chart is in relation to your comments. How can you talk about volume without including the first four's "entry" cars, in particular? BMW sold almost as many 3-series sedans each month in 2012 as Tesla has sold of the S since it was released. That seems to sort of lend credence to the notion that for Tesla to really make practical changes to the way people are buying cars they're going to have to bring the prices down.

loser0:...and there is no way that the $40k Model E is going to have those expensive falcon-wing doors.

I once read an article about a car designed entirely by female professional car designers. The car had tons of practical stuffs in it, including gullwing doors, because it made access to the seats very easily, and therefore made securing a child into a carseat far easier.

Livinglush:Never understood why gull/falcon wing doors had to be SO much more expensive.

Probably "because we can". Those falcon-wing doors fold in half, though -- twice as many mechanicals. Maybe Tesla can afford to put them in a $40k car, but I doubt it. All I can say for absolute certain is that the X has them, and it won't cost $40k.

What is the reason no one puts gullwings on mainstream cars? I've been assuming it's cost, but I've been wrong before. Could be safety, or just people banging their heads on them.

/I passed a Tesla on the way to town just to buy gas -- the universe is mocking me

The difference between an SUV and a crossover is whether it is on a car or truck frame. The Teslas are built on their own "skateboard" frames to take advantage of the electric components. I would say the Model X is more like a crossover in that it has a lower center of gravity than most sedans.

loser0:Livinglush: Never understood why gull/falcon wing doors had to be SO much more expensive.

Probably "because we can". Those falcon-wing doors fold in half, though -- twice as many mechanicals. Maybe Tesla can afford to put them in a $40k car, but I doubt it. All I can say for absolute certain is that the X has them, and it won't cost $40k.

What is the reason no one puts gullwings on mainstream cars? I've been assuming it's cost, but I've been wrong before. Could be safety, or just people banging their heads on them.

/I passed a Tesla on the way to town just to buy gas -- the universe is mocking me

I think part of it is they are difficult to get out of if you land on your lid.

skozlaw:I have no idea what you're griping about. They haven't made any dent.

I think his point is that they've not only made a dent, but crushed, the market for cars in the $90k range. Assuming his unit numbers are correct (no idea), they sold more Model Xs than all the other flagships on that list combined in 2013.

In the overall car market, which ranges from a stripped down $12k Chevy Spark to a $2.5MM Veyron, no, they've not really touched anything yet. But for the one specific segment they're selling anything in, it looks to me like they pretty much nailed it.

skozlaw:I have no idea what you're griping about. They haven't made any dent. That's kind of the point of where they're going with all this. To release the tech to premium buyers at a low volume to bring the costs down so that they CAN turn around and make a dent with a more affordable car.

My point is that they are completely cleaning the floor against their current competition (75K+ luxury cars), and they have a very clearly defined long-term goal of releasing more affordable models as technology and time allows. Of course BMW sells more 3 series vehicles... lets look again at the number in 2020 to see how Tesla's 30-40K car does. Do you have any reason to think that its numbers won't mirror the Model S and its competition (upper end 5 and 7 series?)

To say they haven't made a dent is exactly the same argument that BB, Nokia, Motorola, etc made about the first iPhone, and later the argument Apple made against the first Android devices. Unless the big luxury players get into the EV game in a serious way (not just compliance vehicles), they are going to see continued erosion of their marketshare to this upstart from silicone valley.

the cake is a pie:skozlaw:I have no idea what you're griping about. They haven't made any dent.

I think his point is that they've not only made a dent, but crushed, the market for cars in the $90k range. Assuming his unit numbers are correct (no idea), they sold more Model Xs than all the other flagships on that list combined in 2013.

In the overall car market, which ranges from a stripped down $12k Chevy Spark to a $2.5MM Veyron, no, they've not really touched anything yet. But for the one specific segment they're selling anything in, it looks to me like they pretty much nailed it.

Indeed. I just wish Texas didn't have these stupid franchise laws so they could sell here. Even so, I see a ton of them (Model S) running around here in Houston. Maybe when the mass consumer model is released and they're selling like hot cakes everywhere but here then there will finally be enough pressure to get rid of the state mandated middleman business model for car sales. Or at least I can hope....

Hollie Maea:loser0: MadMattressMack: I wonder how the X will do at hauling boats.

You know how sometimes you back up just a little too far and your tailpipe starts blowing bubbles?

Don't do that.

I'm sure you are aware that the traction pack is completely sealed.

I figured it wouldn't be any more prone to water than a regular car. I was more wondering about towing affecting range and what the payload capacity would be in it.

They're saying it will have a 200 mile range. From my house to the lake I go to is about 60 miles one way. I doubt it'll make there and back while hauling a boat, family, and coolers for a day outing during the summer with the A/C on max while doing 65 mph the whole time. And 65 MPH on I-45 in Houston is dangerously slow.

If we can build locomotives that do things this way, why can't we build a similar system for semi tractors and pickup trucks?

I've always wondered the same thing. The Chevy Volt sort of works that way, but apparently there is some sort of direct interaction between the onboard engine and the drivetrain (not strictly electric / electric generation). Even so, a diesel hybrid or plug-in-hybrid would seem to make sense, not just for trucks but for passenger cars as well.

MadMattressMack:Indeed. I just wish Texas didn't have these stupid franchise laws so they could sell here. Even so, I see a ton of them (Model S) running around here in Houston. Maybe when the mass consumer model is released and they're selling like hot cakes everywhere but here then there will finally be enough pressure to get rid of the state mandated middleman business model for car sales. Or at least I can hope....

You and me both. If their timeline works, my current lease ought to be up after their $40k family model has been out for about a year. As long as there's not a mile long waiting list, and if I can manage to get one delivered to Dallas somehow or another, it's at the top of my "next car" list. If I ever happen to see a Tesla owner in a parking lot or something, I'm going to ask how he got it.

alywa:My point is that they are completely cleaning the floor against their current competition

I don't see how you come to that conclusion with anything provided in your post. You could just as easily conclude that each automaker its mopping its own floor by moving mid-range buyers up to flagship sales over that period.

I also question those generic comparisons. There are multiple models of the S ranging in price from mid-range to flagship. If you combine the mid-range and flagship models from the other makers Tesla is in third. Certainly good, but hardly "cleaning the floor". It's not fair to break the other makers down by price but then combine all S sales into one lump sum like the $100,000+ version is comparable to an E or 5 series.

And I don't know about Lexus, but Audi just saw MASSIVE improvements in sales of the A6 and up models.

alywa:To say they haven't made a dent is exactly the same argument that BB, Nokia, Motorola, etc made about the first iPhone, and later the argument Apple made against the first Android devices. Unless the big luxury players get into the EV game in a serious way (not just compliance vehicles), they are going to see continued erosion of their marketshare to this upstart from silicone valley.

I don't disagree, I just don't see where you take exception with the TFA's statement on the matter. It doesn't seem to dispute that notion, it just observes that the S is a step in that direction, not the destination which I think is a perfectly valid observation.

the cake is a pie:MadMattressMack:Indeed. I just wish Texas didn't have these stupid franchise laws so they could sell here. Even so, I see a ton of them (Model S) running around here in Houston. Maybe when the mass consumer model is released and they're selling like hot cakes everywhere but here then there will finally be enough pressure to get rid of the state mandated middleman business model for car sales. Or at least I can hope....

You and me both. If their timeline works, my current lease ought to be up after their $40k family model has been out for about a year. As long as there's not a mile long waiting list, and if I can manage to get one delivered to Dallas somehow or another, it's at the top of my "next car" list. If I ever happen to see a Tesla owner in a parking lot or something, I'm going to ask how he got it.

You might be shocked at how many people own vehicles that were in the 40k range new. Now you might also be correct if you look at their finances and go "jesus christ you idiot, you are car-poor", but that is neither here nor there.

MadMattressMack:I figured it wouldn't be any more prone to water than a regular car. I was more wondering about towing affecting range and what the payload capacity would be in it.

They're saying it will have a 200 mile range. From my house to the lake I go to is about 60 miles one way. I doubt it'll make there and back while hauling a boat, family, and coolers for a day outing during the summer with the A/C on max while doing 65 mph the whole time. And 65 MPH on I-45 in Houston is dangerously slow.

You'd be able to do that trip fine, I think. The author of the article took a giant dump and confused two different models. The Model X should have a solid 250 mile range, and towing a boat doesn't lose you any more range in an EV than it does in an ICE vehicle--less actually since you have regenerative braking which reduces the penalty of weight. And A/C doesn't reduce range as much as you might expect--maybe 10 miles or so over the course of the battery life. So I'd be really surprised if you couldn't make the 120 mile trip.

MadMattressMack:the cake is a pie: skozlaw:I have no idea what you're griping about. They haven't made any dent.

I think his point is that they've not only made a dent, but crushed, the market for cars in the $90k range. Assuming his unit numbers are correct (no idea), they sold more Model Xs than all the other flagships on that list combined in 2013.

In the overall car market, which ranges from a stripped down $12k Chevy Spark to a $2.5MM Veyron, no, they've not really touched anything yet. But for the one specific segment they're selling anything in, it looks to me like they pretty much nailed it.

Indeed. I just wish Texas didn't have these stupid franchise laws so they could sell here. Even so, I see a ton of them (Model S) running around here in Houston. Maybe when the mass consumer model is released and they're selling like hot cakes everywhere but here then there will finally be enough pressure to get rid of the state mandated middleman business model for car sales. Or at least I can hope....

I wonder how the X will do at hauling boats.

Buy your car in Oregon, register it in South Dakota. Save a fortune in taxes.