For my Torii MK3 i'm running the stock Tung-sol el34's, OB3 and stock OC2's. Edit: My rectifiers are RCA 5u4gb's. I also have Rca 5y3gt and Philips 5R4GYS on hand. I currently am using as inputs the Matsushita / National PCC88 / 7DJ8 from Upscale Audio. I like them a lot. Would like to experiment w/ some other 7dj8's that those with experience would think would be an improvement. Would love to hear some Telefunkens and the like but w/ Xmas here I'm tapped out for new ones.

I have about $67 in my paypal account to play with. Now I know it ain't much $, and as far as I know I'm nobody's first cousin here. But... if you have some used fancy pants 7dj8's that you've moved on from but still have decent life left in them and you think would improve on the Nationals, I'd be interested.

Edit: Just thinking, I've got a nice Philips 5R4GYS Made in Holland rectifier w/ less than 300hrs on it I could add to the $. Since I sold my CSP2 not too long ago, I don't need it anymore. It came from Upscale Audio. They go for $55 there now.

Hey Greg. What Rectifiers are you liking/using in your Torii? Since you like the National 7DJ8, what direction would your imagination take you for better sound. Like all the tube types, I hear a 7DJ8 "sound" but within that, I think there is enough variation to make your interest in other 7DJ8s real (I have a lot of them!). Would you like more open and big, more transparent, more dark or bassy. cleaner/tighter, more textured ..... If you let me know I might be able to point you somewhere.

Hi Will. Sorry I forgot to include the rect's I'm using. Rca 5y3gt and just recently rca 5u4gb's.

The current sound I'm getting is really great, but if it can be improved on then I'll spend for it. What I'm getting now is a very natural sound. Texture, transparency, spot on warmth and accurate bass/treble is what i want. I'm really satisfied with those attributes now, i could live with it and be happy. But curiosity has me wondering if there is still room for improvement in the listed departments.

I'm currently focussing in the input tubes because i think I've got what is for me, the right rect's and drivers. I tried the G.L. kt77's and Orangecrush was right in his description elsewhere on this site. An exciting sound in the mids and treble, really lively in the best sense. It's just that they really seemed to put out too much bass for my room and spkrs to handle accurately. (DM945's with the new companion cabinets) . The bass was bloated and flabby . If my paradigm studio 80s were working it would have been cool to see how they handled the bass. They are impressive in that department. So I went back to the tung-sol el34s the bass is back to where i like it. Deep, textured and at the right level. I have a nice balanced sound.

So long story short, I want what I've got now only better if it's possible.

Lon, I am guessing you mean to try a OB3 or OC3 with Greg's KT77s? I think he is using OB3 and I agree, OC3 could be another good option that might bring out the KT77s with less bass. I have some sweet sounding Hytron OD3s. From the 40s better, but from the fifties very good. I find both to chill the push and bass nicely, but with a very natural and balanced sound. I almost always use OB3 with my MkIII in this room, but I have done a lot to calm the bass with treatment and EQ. Without that, I would likely be using OD3s.

Also Greg, I guess you tried the 5Y3GTs with the KT77s? I find that generally 5U4GBs have the deepest bass, 5U4G-STs a bit less, and 5Y3s the least.

I will get back on PCC88/7DJ8s. They are getting harder to find. For me, in a general way, I have liked the Nationals and Telefunkens the least, but can see how they might be just right with the right tubes to compliment them. I will do a little listening.

RR,

I have not tried the Teslas, but from my experience with their 60's ECC88/6922s, I suspect they will have a biggish open sound with good micro detail and delineation.

Pann,

I don't know why LS's CSP3 is so flexible output tube wise, but mine was not. It did well with different tubes in the input position, but was very sketchy in the output pair position...I think so much that it was frying tubes....can't say this for sure, but I did lose one of a pair several times after the CSP3 attempts. Mine is #3, is that before your LS? Maybe, mine just had a bad resister or something....

I sent it back in for a mod that I think Steve may have integrated into later builds to give more output tube flexibility.

Anyway though, I agree...try the 7DJ8 up front. It will be really nice I suspect. Open the sound up a bit and refine detail.

My CSP3 was built much later than yours.It was still WIP during this year's Decfest.The guests attending Decfest probably probed and prodded my CSP3 which was lying on the workbench, hence it gained the "Mida's touch".

But seriously speaking, I have been in contact with another CSP3 owner, CKC. He had some problems with hum and also with using other tubes in the Output section of the CSP3.He informed me that his CSP3 was sent back and Steve D. made some internal changes such that the CSP3 could now accommodate other output tubes.

Maybe Steve D made some progressive production changes to the layout of the CSP3, much like what he recently did with the Mystery amp?

So hard to say with different system/rooms, but with the tubes I have in now, and here, I feel like the Nationals sound great with some stuff, and sort of unnatural with other stuff, in which case they can be a bit forward/edgy in the mids/upper mids but with really good texture. And at times they feel a bit restrained and unresolved in the low mids down. They go nice and low, they just feel a little sluggish there at times, but this may be in part in contrast with the up front mids.

If you want to stay big and open, I think the below are similar and almost exactly in your price area....To my ear, generally more natural in balance and tone. Smoother, but still clear mids and upper mids, and still big bass. In my room, perhaps a little better developed bass definition. They might be a good one to try...like the Nationals in a broad sense, but different enough to explore.

I can recommend getting a pair of Siemens PCC88. E.g. EBAY item 221331998591They are value for money tubes.

The Telefunken PCC88s currently sold by Upscale Audio are actually Siemens made PCC88s.They have the same internal structure.Even though they are newer tubes with silver shields, they are pretty good with linear extension at both ends of the audio spectrum.The mids are also slightly warm in a good way.They are also cheaper if sold under the Siemens brand name.

I PM'd a guy over at the hoffman site that sells tubes. He had these for sale. Any opinions on these and the prices for them? They aren't 7Dj8's but probably shouldn't let that stop me if they are good candidates.

6DJ8/6922/7308 and 7DJ8s will all work in a 6922 circuit. I have the following available right now, prices include shipping and insurance in the U.S. All tested on my B&K 747B tester and passed life/shorts/grid emissions; sections match to 10% or better, all test as NOS.

Pair of Siemens Munich (German Philips factory) branded for CBS 6DJ8s; "X" seams, etched datecodes, single support rod "O" halo getter, early 60s production/oldest I have in stock, these sound really good, probably the most balanced sounding I have at this time... $70

Pair of Philips Herleen Holland plant (1 branded Amperex, 1 branded GE) 6DJ8s; single suport rod "O" halo getter, "X" seams, etched datecodes, GE bottom tuck flap torn off and taped over by previous owner, another great sounding pair (a little less costly due to different branding - some folks are very picky about that, it really makes no difference as Philips didn't hold back better quality tubes for Amperex or any other brand that bought/sold them). These are a touch more lively sounding compared to the Siemens made tubes, not zippy bright, just a slightly more alive sounding midrange. $65

I have a pair of Siemens early 60's 6DJ8s and they are really good tubes. Extended and linear, open, delicate detail, and transparent. Not sure how these relate in construction, but mine have single support hallow getters and are labeled Haltron. Also have a pair of Mullard labelled 6DJ8 A-frames with the same construction described, not sure the year, but a very nice tube also. Warmer than the Siemens, but with a nice open midrange, and pleasant but subtle euphonic thing going.

Not sure about the Heerlin tubes. I have liked bugle boys which are constructed similarly, but only now and then...they have a particular upper mid bump that can be good or not depending. Don't know if these would be the same either. Bugle Boys with D getters are different and quite interesting. Also the Heerlin made A-frames have an upper mid bump that is sometimes nice, and perhaps just right in the right setting, but I like the Mullards better here.

I think these are quite good prices for these NOS testing tubes.... good inputs of the open mid variety.

The Telefunken PCC88s I have, I got from tubemonger, and they are different than te ones LS describes from Upscale. Mine have the more typical chrome plate that the getter rises off of, and therefore I can't comment on the sound of the upscale ones or the like Siemens, but LS has done a lot of good homework for us all!

So LS's right up on the Lorenz PCC88 tube in the CSP preamp sort of has me intrigued, to point that I impulsively order them from an Ebay seller in Lithuania. He has over 100 transactions w/ 100% positive reviews. I paid $100 total for a matched pair shipped. Hopefully I did alright, I couldn't find any reviews on them in a Torii MK3 but since LS like them so much in the CSP I'm hoping they do just as well in my amp. Also the listing didn't mention if they were 2 or 3 mica. Have to see I guess.

If these don't blow me away, then I'm gonna get some of the other ones you all were so nice to recommend.

Please feel free to let me know your opinions on my ebay buy. If I over paid it would be good info in case I like them and want to buy more. Otherwise thanks again for the help, and I'll definately let you all know what I think of them after I have them awhile.

I have a pair from Tubemonger bought some years ago and never really used them, but did listen to them the other day in looking for a National variation. I was concerned about commenting on them as they were not burned in, and above your budget on Ebay. So I put them in my MkIV that is burning in and they sound really good with a quad of Psvane 5881s (also just burning in, and sounded badddd! the first few days). These Lorenz are 2 mica. If you mouse over the ebay pic, you can see the pointy/ridged edges of the micas as they meet the glass, with the plates in between.

As I was listening the other day, when I was doing direct comparisons, I thought some tubes did better at coming close to the Nationals, and some worse, but when I just listened, each one of the 7DJ8s I tried was a nice tube at what it did. Especially with the MkIII bass and treble knobs.

I have been listening this AM to some Tungsrum PCC88s (cheap tubes still...I had these cryo'd) I had not heard for a while... with some JJ6CA7s, and the sound is very nice with music I have played so far!

Yep, same Ebay listing, he said he has 9 of them. Do you think I should have just stuck w/ something in the price range I paid for the Nationals.. $60 pair. In other words, do you think the Lorenz are probably no better or worse? Oh about the price point I listed,, I had sold 1 of my Rectifiers which gave me another $45 to play with. That why I spent more for the Lorenz. Figured what the heck, spend more and hopefully get into a higher level of performance. Tho I don't know if it necessarily works that way w/ tubes. Be interesting to see your impression on your Lorenz after they burn in.

anybody tried a Russian 6N23/6H23 in the 6922/6N1P input spot of their Torii? Steve is supplying the MA with 6N23's - gotta be a reason for this - He must like'em. They are pretty universally heralded as being really good sounding, well made and long lasting globes. I bought a pair of the Russian 6H23n's on recommendation for the 6922 spots in my Calypso... nice tubes, nice sound - more to my liking than factory supplied EH6922's for sure. I am thinking about getting another pair to try in my Torii... I'll bet somebody out there has already tried them in their Torii... please chime in.I have the Upscale National 7DJ8's in my Torii right now. These were the first tubes I rolled from the factory provided 6N1P's. The amp absolutely makes more power with these and took on a more lively overall sound, but tonal balance still seems to be pretty balanced - I haven't noted a "negative" about them yet. I've only had them installed about 10-15 hours so far. Probably still some mellowing and harmonic bloom to develop I suspect.

I tried them some time back, cryo'd Russian ones from cryoset.com. To be frank. . . I didn't like them. I didn't leave them in a long time to bloom (it's my experience that cryo'd tubes take a while to come to be all they can be) because they just weren't doing it for me, too lean and crisp and pushy. I must point out that I don't prefer 6922 or 6DJ8 or 7DJ8 types in my Torii, these 6N23 seem similar to those to me.

The Lorenz tubes review I posted earlier in the CSP thread were Lorenz Stuttgart tubes with completely Gray internals. Even the getter support and the getter itself are completely Gray. This is the version which everyone raves about.

The Lorenz Company stopped producing their own tubes after some restructuring and bought and rebranded tubes made by other companies.These are branded as SEL Lorenz tubes.They are a mixed bag.I have a bunch of them and they were either made by Mullard Blackburn ("B" factory codes ) about 5% chanceor by the Nish Yugoslavia factory with (•) factory code - majority 95%

Both the CSP and the Torii amps were designed with minimal parts in the sonic chain in order to preserve transparency.So I'll expect the same tube sonics experienced in the CSP to show up when used in the Torii amp.

Yeah I should have figured as much given the $90 price on mine. I'm sure the ones you refer to are way more expensive. Oh well. I kind of figured I was throwing caution to the wind. We'll see. I'm fortunate to have many used cd stores around to by cheap and flip online at a reasonable profit to pay for the tubes.