Ryan Swope, wr Texas A & M pretty much has been stuck with the Wes Welker label for various reasons but he actually might be closer to a Jordy Nelson. Nevertheless how much value does the next Wes Welker have.

Swope sort of tore up the combine. 4.34 in the 40, 37 inch vertical and a 10-5 jump. A former RB in highschool who is very good after the catch.

What round and what teams would he fit in with. I'm hoping he ends up in Seattle in round 2 but wouldn't be surprised where he goes really. He certainly brings a lot more to the table than Matt Jones or Arkansas did, who rose leading up to the draft basically off his combine numbers.

I really like Swope and agree he doesn't remind of Welker that much. Swope is much better going vertical from the slot than running those little option routes Welker does. Although I have a hard time seeing him winning consistently on the outside so I don't think the Jordy comparison is perfect either. I think he needs to go to an offense that utilises multiple receiver sets and multiple formations. Don't put him in 12 formation and expect him to win consistently against man coverage. Put him in the slot, put him in motion and get the ball in his hands. He can also dominate weak coverage down the seams

T.J. Moe of Missouri, slow as molasses but dominated in the 3 cone drill. At least, he has the same skill set as Welker.

I compare TJ Moe to Anquan Boldin - same type of player - not the fastest guy but a good receiver who can move the chains and make things happen with the ball in their hands. Will be interesting to see where Moe goes in this draft - pretty undervalued guy. But if Boldin ran a 4.7 and was a 3rd rounder I would have no issue with Moe being taken in the same round especially after proving himself a very good WR.

I agree it's lazy to lump Swope in with every other successful white WR (even if I see elements of Largent in him).

I still think he has those. Although a couple more contemporary example who was also Largent like could equally apply: Hines Ward and Bobby Engram.

Swope looks like a WR that should work the 5-15 yard zones, rather than the 0-5 like Welker. He's not super quick like Welker. Seems he takes a step or two to get his stride. Has a knack for creating separation after he gets moving and shows a highly developed ability to find seams in soft zones -- exactly like Ward and Engram.

- Excellent hands. Catches balls in traffic.

- Very good balance. Can take a hit, maintain his feet and burst free. Has better straight line speed than Ward.

- Good and willing blocker. He has a natural toughness to him.

I'd really put him in a Ward/Largent/Engram class of prospect. A guy who has a natural affinity for ball skills and the position in general. He will be a highly trusted target for any NFL qb. He possesses an innate level of grittiness that you don't see in WRs very frequently.

This is a guy who I could easily see us looking back in 3-4 years and say he's the best of his class. There are so many elements to his game that look like a natural fit for the pro game.

This is a prospect that I can see Seattle taking far too early. He is football smart and exactly the kind of prospect you'd want to develop alongside another football smart QB in Wilson. The potential in terms of that unspoken connection between QB and go to WR is sky high. In a year where everyone is looking for the next Bruce Irvin or Russell Wilson in the draft, the Seahawks are moving on to the next gig.

Brandon Stokely. Brandon is 6'0" and had a 35.5 in vertical jump. He ran a sub 4.5 and had very good game speed. I would described Swopes game speed as very good.

Hey OP, I know you believe that Swope is being discriminated against. Glad you had a quick sip, now try and put yourself in the shoes of Donavan McNabb who experts said would play WR just after the college season ended. Or E.J. Manuel who is a better QB than Jake Locker but isn't being given the same file cabinet of excuses Locker got.

I compare TJ Moe to Anquan Boldin - same type of player - not the fastest guy but a good receiver who can move the chains and make things happen with the ball in their hands. Will be interesting to see where Moe goes in this draft - pretty undervalued guy. But if Boldin ran a 4.7 and was a 3rd rounder I would have no issue with Moe being taken in the same round especially after proving himself a very good WR.

Let's not over do it. Bolden was limping at his combine and was just recovering from an injury when he ran. Moe doesn't quite fit the Bolden mold.
Also I believe Bolden was a 2nd rounder because scouts and GM's believed he was recovering nicely fom his injury.

Moe is much more like Welker who ran a slow 40 but is still very quick in and out of his cuts.

Hey OP, I know you believe that Swope is being discriminated against. Glad you had a quick sip, now try and put yourself in the shoes of Donavan McNabb who experts said would play WR just after the college season ended. Or E.J. Manuel who is a better QB than Jake Locker but isn't being given the same file cabinet of excuses Locker got.

Where did this come from? Maybe a different thread?

I see he said he was saddled with a Wes Welker label. I don't see the logic leap needed to imply what you're saying.

I do think it's lazy to misapply racial labels to guys, since they are all unique in their own right. I put forth a couple non white examples of who I thought Swope emulated as well.

As for EJ Manuel -- Maybe he is better, but is that saying much? Locker was at one time seen as a top 5 prospect and I'm guessing that more than anything led to his being reached for. I'd guess his background in a pro style offense and leading a program rebuild effort from an 0-12 season to a bowl win had something to do with that.

I don't know much about EJ Manuel. I don't get a lot of his games up here in S. Alaska. Since Seattle is set on QB, I'm not really keeping up on QBs at all either anymore. From what I've seen though, he's not a first round 'wow' kind of guy. And I really don't see any comparison to Wilson in that regard. Wilson certainly possessed everything 'else' that anyone wanted from the position. I don't see Manuel having any of those attributes.

I expect there is a fair bit of downgrading of his value based on the luster and success of the 2012 class. It's a hard act to follow.

I compare TJ Moe to Anquan Boldin - same type of player - not the fastest guy but a good receiver who can move the chains and make things happen with the ball in their hands. Will be interesting to see where Moe goes in this draft - pretty undervalued guy. But if Boldin ran a 4.7 and was a 3rd rounder I would have no issue with Moe being taken in the same round especially after proving himself a very good WR.

Boldin was hurt at the combine when he ran.

And you are thinking of the Baltimore Boldin with the lack of speed - go look at his days in Arizona. He could run away from people coming out of FSU with his size.

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Brandon Stokely. Brandon is 6'0" and had a 35.5 in vertical jump. He ran a sub 4.5 and had very good game speed. I would described Swopes game speed as very good.

Hey OP, I know you believe that Swope is being discriminated against. Glad you had a quick sip, now try and put yourself in the shoes of Donavan McNabb who experts said would play WR just after the college season ended. Or E.J. Manuel who is a better QB than Jake Locker but isn't being given the same file cabinet of excuses Locker got.

So Brandon Stokely was a pretty good athlete coming out but not in Swope's class. 4.49 for the 40 compared to 4.34 isn't really all that close. That was some time ago.

As for your mention of Manuel i think he'll probably end up being drafted a little higher than most might have thought. For me he certainly is as good a prospect as Blaine Gabbert was. As for Locker, who most in here know is a favorite of mine being from the same area, i think his upside is higher than the two guys i just mentioned. He's a better athlete than those guys and i think has a better arm. I think it's too early to give up on him.

Stereotypes certainly still exist in football. Some starting at a pretty young age actually. I find it hard to believe we couldnt find some white CBs out there that could be just as mediocre as some of their black counterparts.

I see he said he was saddled with a Wes Welker label. I don't see the logic leap needed to imply what you're saying.

See above response.

I do think it's lazy to misapply racial labels to guys, since they are all unique in their own right. I put forth a couple non white examples of who I thought Swope emulated as well.

You're telling me? I will never forget this commentary on Donnavon McKnabb: "Some say he reminds them of Randall Cunningham, other's say he reminds them of Warren Moon." Need I contrast the differences between these two players?

As for EJ Manuel -- Maybe he is better, but is that saying much? Locker was at one time seen as a top 5 prospect and I'm guessing that more than anything led to his being reached for.

But that's just it, it was never warranted. He was a white guy who was nearly an elite level athlete with upside, but that was it. He didn't accomplish one 4th of what Johnny football accomplished.

I'd guess his background in a pro style offense and leading a program rebuild effort from an 0-12 season to a bowl win had something to do with that.

Really? Well what exactly did he "build it" to? Not completely sucking? Again, the hype on him was unwarranted.

I don't know much about EJ Manuel. I don't get a lot of his games up here in S. Alaska. Since Seattle is set on QB, I'm not really keeping up on QBs at all either anymore. From what I've seen though, he's not a first round 'wow' kind of guy. And I really don't see any comparison to Wilson in that regard. Wilson certainly possessed everything 'else' that anyone wanted from the position. I don't see Manuel having any of those attributes.

E.J. is rather bland, but efficient. He has a lot of upside and will benefit from good coaching. He also has elite character and is very intelligent. A more dynamic and fluid Jason Campbell. In a weak QB class, he is a first rounder.

I expect there is a fair bit of downgrading of his value based on the luster and success of the 2012 class. It's a hard act to follow.

Stereotypes certainly still exist in football. Some starting at a pretty young age actually. I find it hard to believe we couldnt find some white CBs out there that could be just as mediocre as some of their black counterparts.

So Brandon Stokely was a pretty good athlete coming out but not in Swope's class. 4.49 for the 40 compared to 4.34 isn't really all that close. That was some time ago.

As for your mention of Manuel i think he'll probably end up being drafted a little higher than most might have thought. For me he certainly is as good a prospect as Blaine Gabbert was. As for Locker, who most in here know is a favorite of mine being from the same area, i think his upside is higher than the two guys i just mentioned. He's a better athlete than those guys and i think has a better arm. I think it's too early to give up on him.

Stereotypes certainly still exist in football. Some starting at a pretty young age actually. I find it hard to believe we couldnt find some white CBs out there that could be just as mediocre as some of their black counterparts.

But as I mentioned, Stokely played a little faster than 4.49 (or at least no slower) and Swope doesn't play to 4.34, so it evens out a bit.

As far as Manuel, he is flat out a better prospect than Gabbert.

As far as Locker, how much longer will it take for you to realize what Locker isn't? You mentioned him being a better athlete than the others, but he is also a better athlete than he is QB and that's all one needs to know. His "better arm" does not show any constant accuracy and for that reason, Matt Ryan has a better are as far as I am concerned. Locker just sprays the ball all over the field.

As far as the white CBs, no, we can't find any. If they existed, they would be found. It's a different type of athleticism.

Since we are having this conversation, I'll take a chance and provide you an example of how black and white athletes differ. You take and athletic white basketball player with very good measurables versus a black player with similar measurables and have them both dunk. They look like night and day. The black player will likely **** the ball back and fluidly tomahawk dunk while covering a lot of ground in the air. The white player's jump and dunk will be more linear and mechanical. Tom Chambers was the guy who came closest to dunking like a brotha, and even he wasn't close.

I think the same is true with the requirements of the CB position, and although you disagree, it's flat out nonsense to believe that the only reason we don't see white CBs on any level is because of stereotypes. If that was the case, then why do we have white WRs?? Again, it takes a different level of athleticism to backpeddle, read and react, stop and start and change directions in no more than three steps. I tell you what, the day I see a white CB on the field in the NFL, I'll support him 100% as a trail blazer of sorts simply because he would have had to have overcome some stereotyping along the way. But the truth is he would be more of an anomaly than a trailblazer.