. . . 'oh well you were just born that way' abnormal (biological) . . .

Change "abnormal" to "normal" and the above snip sums up gay/lesbian for me.

I never cease to be amazed by the obsession to overanalyze the obvious. Not on your part, pad, and I'm late to this conversation. And my normally acute ear for alliteration is a little off, too, but road trips leave me a little lackin' when I finally drag my sweet MacBabeness back home.

My original post was intended as a counter to Km's post which said "a boy who ends up with same sex attractions does so because he doesn't have a father he can connect with or he doesn't have a father that he perceives as safe and welcoming."

So I was trying to make the point that many gay men and women grew up with an absent/abusive opposite-sex parent rather than same-sex parent. This being the opposite set of conditions to those posited in the doctor's statement, that part of her theory is effectively disproved.

It is certainly the case that an absent/abusive parent will likely result in their child growing up less sure of his/her positive identity as a man/woman, but this is off to one side of sexual orientation.

Anyway... as far as pride parades go, it's not the obsession with sexual orientation that provokes the need for them, it's the obsession with thinking homosexuality is 'wrong' that provokes a need to feel like it isn't wrong, at least for one day a year.

Other prime markers of identity that are knocking around - gender, yes - and what about race, religion, class, politics, wealth, skill, talent, status, age, attractiveness, wisdom... I'm just pointing out that there are other cultures in the world that don't consider someone's sexual orientation to be their defining characteristic. Holland, for example - it's just never been the big deal over there that it is in the UK/USA, and they find it a little weird that we're so obsessed with it.

Lea, I agree - hence the quote marks first time round. non-heterosexuality is only 'abnormal' in the statistical sense, if you consider 'the norm' to be heterosexuality because more than 50% of people apparently are so.

Personally, since there has been a certain percentage of human beings (and other animals) throughout recorded history that are not heterosexual, I would call it normal and leave it at that, but we're not allowed to get away with that, because some feckin' book or other tells the devout 'tis not so.

Well, stripped down to it's barest essentials, disregarding any negative or positive feelings some people might have about it, I still think of sexual orientation as a prime identity builder. When I find out someone is gay, it is an interesting characteristic that sets them apart from others. But I don't mean this in any negative sense; I love people and I love the things that make us different. I also like it when I notice someone is left-handed for the first time as well. When I saw Obama signing his first acts with his left-hand (having not know he was gi-cho (a lefty), I smiled to notice this little deviance from the "norm".

Anyway, I do see all the points you are referring to, but I still think even in a completely unprejudiced society (an impossibility probably) sexual orientation would still be an important part of one's identity. But I could be wrong.

If Vegas is taking bets, I my money is solid on: When the biological part of this argument is settled (and it eventually will be), we're all born bi, with predispositions ~ even tempered or hot headed, digital or analog, gay or straight. (I leave out PC or Mac, to spare a Mod the "move or not to move" conundrum .)

Not disagreeing here at all - of course sexual orientation is an important part of one's identity, along with all the other ones - I'm just saying it's not 'the most important'. Probably in the same way that someone in a predominantly white society wishes that people would notice something about them other than 'oh, you're black'.

I'm interested in other people's sexual orientation too, for various reasons - curiosity, caution, attraction! It's useful information in different ways. But it really doesn't tell you as much about who someone is as we've been conditioned to believe.

But it really doesn't tell you as much about who someone is as we've been conditioned to believe.

Pre-conceptions , are hard to get away from at times . Here I was blessed and even Obama made mention that we have a huge diversity of races of different nationalities , even gays , lesbians , travistites yada yada are all living on one tiny island .

Hence I raised my daughter to view a person on their attitude , never on their color or sexual orientation <-- who cares , I don't

But your are right that a predominantly white society would not have the experience that people of a different color are really just people - Same goes with a all Black predominantly society or Asain or whatever

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