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CMSM results now available on Kennel Club website

A great step forward -- this was long promised and many decent health-concerned breeders had been frustrated that there was a long delay in making results available (as are test results for all other KC schemes). Some however, wanted results to remain private. Thankfully they were overruled in the case of this particular scheme. An important step for transparency, honesty and the future of the breed.

This is great news, anyone searching for a cavalier puppy will, in the years to come, be able to look up the parents' names and see if they are scanned and what their grades are. Most scanning centres will automatically submit the scans to the BVA for grading and send the results to the AHT for inclusion in their EBVs.

Breeders using the cheaper scanning centres, where no official BVA/KC grade is given, will be able to submit their scans for official grading and submission to the EBVs themselves. Old scans are accepted, as long as the quality is acceptable

If a breeder claims their dog is scanned but no result is shown on the KC Health Test Result Finder, then the wise buyers should be wondering why?

If anyone wants to try this out they can look up my Faith............. Wyredell Keeping Faith.

There is still one slight problem that the KC has not sorted out. They are still showing an incorrect date for Faith's age at time of scanning. The scan was done in July 2011 when she was 3 years 11 months. They are displaying her age at the time the scan was graded.

Margaret C

Cavaliers......Faith, The Ginger Tank and Woody.
Japanese Chins.... Dandy, Benny, Bridgette and Hana.
Remembered with love......... Tommy Tuppence and Fonzi

Any guesses as to how many of the top 10 stud dogs have MRI results shown?

The real breakthrough will be when breeders scan these genetically critical dogs as a rule, not an exception (if even at all ) as they have an overbearing impact on the breed's future -- as breeders who own or use them, and give lip service to being health focused breeders , know all too well.

That these dogs are not scanned, and/or results not given publicly (so that finding scanned studs remains a huge challenge for truly health focused breeders) says everything about current show breeder priorities for the vast majority: they sadly remain money in pocket. show prestige priorities.

Everyone knows this is an issue. Few will talk about it or push for change.

I haven't found any cavaliers with MRIs listed. And I even tried Mareve Indiana. Given that his pups are still out in the world, I would think that Margaret would want the information available for future (dog) generations.

Am I searching wrong?

(I realize that we aren't supposed to post dog's registered names, but I think in this case it should be allowed.)

For interest just run my four girls through and the only thing that showed up was their Inbreeding Coefficient ,a Cavaliers breed average should be 5.3%,
Poppy was 3.5 while Rosie was 4.2 with Lily at 8.9 and Daisy an horrendous 22.3 ,must be a very close " hello brother " family there .

Only the cavaliers who have been scanned under the KC/BVA scheme since it started in January 2012 are viewable on the site.
Any scans done previously aren't included.
You should be able to see results for eye tests on most cavaliers.
Sins

Sharing my sofa with Holly, Ivy,Lilly and Hazy.. and never forgetting our beautiful Daisy who reached the bridge too soon.

That can't be right though either (??), as Margaret's dog was scanned in 2011 under the scheme, and is listed (albeit with age at scanning wrong). So must include earlier dogs?

Mareve Indiana wouldn't be included because he was scanned many years ago. Some earlier scans are used if the quality is good enough as Margaret notes but not sure how they make the selection.

The breeding coefficients are fairly useless on the site at the moment and should not be taken as meaningful or correct-- they are calculated only going from a very recent point, not using any historical data at all (as if the breed is only about a decade old or so I think), and hence cavaliers will almost all have coefficients below what would be correct if they were properly calculated. Margaret I am sure can explain the case as I cannot remember the details.

The idea that the average for cavaliers is only 5.3% is farcical -- I think not even believed by the breeders most skeptical about health issues!

That can't be right though either (??), as Margaret's dog was scanned in 2011 under the scheme, and is listed (albeit with age at scanning wrong). So must include earlier dogs?

The Scheme only includes dogs MRI'd before January 2012 if the owner pays to submit their older certificates. I paid £100 to have Faith's scan officially graded and the results recorded.

Originally Posted by Karlin

Mareve Indiana wouldn't be included because he was scanned many years ago. Some earlier scans are used if the quality is good enough as Margaret notes but not sure how they make the selection.

Monty ( Ch. Mareve Indiana ) was never scanned. He died in 2004 before the low cost scans were in place. As he was not insured I could not afford £2,000 to have him MRI'd. When he died I gave his body to Clare Rusbridge for tissue donation and Syringomyelia was confirmed at post mortem.

Most of the really early scans could not be graded under the new scheme as the scanning process has been considerably refined over the years. It took time for the researchers to learn the best way to get the truest picture.

MRIs taken in 2010 & 2011 would probably be worth submitting especially as the fee is returned if the scan is not of a suitable quality for grading.

Originally Posted by Karlin

The breeding coefficients are fairly useless on the site at the moment and should not be taken as meaningful or correct-- they are calculated only going from a very recent point, not using any historical data at all (as if the breed is only about a decade old or so I think), and hence cavaliers will almost all have coefficients below what would be correct if they were properly calculated. Margaret I am sure can explain the case as I cannot remember the details.

The idea that the average for cavaliers is only 5.3% is farcical -- I think not even believed by the breeders most skeptical about health issues!

With about six founding dogs Cavaliers have been inbred since they were created in 1925. The COI is artificially low because the KC decided to calculate COIs from when they first started keeping information on computers. They therefore counted all the already very inbred cavaliers in 1983 ( I think it was ) as if they were completely unrelated. Add to that a very different non-show population and you get a very unreliable average.

Of course many show bred dogs are mated to close relatives and so have COIs in the teens to twenties. One puppy list coordinator's latest litter had COIs over 30%

Last edited by Margaret C; 25th September 2012 at 02:41 PM.

Margaret C

Cavaliers......Faith, The Ginger Tank and Woody.
Japanese Chins.... Dandy, Benny, Bridgette and Hana.
Remembered with love......... Tommy Tuppence and Fonzi