Monday, June 17, 2013

[gita-talk] Re: Why good people hurt others in Puranic stories?

Since my mother is visiting at my house, I have got Zee TV. TV shows of Zee TV are soap operas which are full of jealousy, duplicity, cheating and basically, people hurting each other. My mind started hurting after watching those shows. My mother mentioned that Puranic stories are full of such incidences. For example, step mothers of Jarasandha cut him into two halves and threw him away. The father of Dhruva, Uttanpada, mistreated his own son. Valmiki Ramayana describes how Kaikeyi will treat Kausalya with disrespect as she was favorite wife of Dasarath. She continued to give me many instances of such behavior.

I am an ordinary person and I don't hurt people around me. Why do these great people in Puranas hurt others?

Regards, Murari Das

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Respected Murari Das Ji,

First we have to decide that what is the definition of "Good People". For oneself and for his near and dear ones everyone is nice, every father is a good person for his son, even though the same person may not be good for the others in society.

The great people or bad people... we recognise them, otherwise till the GOD realisation or realisation of Brahma everywhere everybody is caught in the arms of Maya. So there are hurting, jealousy & other illusionary acts. So whoever does such, he/she can not be said to be a great or God realised person.

Pathak N P

---------------------------------------------------- Whether we are hurt or we aren't hurt by such incidences described in those books, the incidences of the past won't change and can't be changed. Better is to let the bygones be bygones and take care of the present. No use spoiling the present for the yesterday (can't be changed) or for the tomorrow (yet to come). Humbly, Saadhaka

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dont worry too much about so many things just chant gods name and enjoy bliss and life god bless you swamiji SWAMI KRISHNANANDA

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Jai Hanuman

One of the main source of pride, which is a basic and seed demoniac property as per Gita in a Jeeva, is COMPARISON. Pride arises mostly when you compare ( Hey Look at me...I am good, others are not...) . You become proudy of richness only if you have poor around you in comparison. If you are a millionaire and all others are either millionaires or billionaires, you will not feel proudy. You get proudy only if you compare yourself with those who are not millionaires. Hence comparison that I am good but others are not...is representative of asuri sampada( Gita 16/4). All evil traits, as a law, automatically manifest in you when you have this pride ( ABHIMAAN) of goodness.

But when you are a Sadhak this pride can be a positive trait also if there is SVAABHIMAAN ( self respect ) in you that I AM SADHAK. There is a difference between self respect and pride. In pride, you compare: I AM SADHAK , OTHERS ARE NOT, OR OTHERS ARE ASADHAKS ..,this is ABHIMAAN ( pride) and all evil traits in a human prosper under the pride of goodness. Pride of goodness is the seed of all other vices. But that is ABHIMAAN which an obstacle in striving.

In SVAABHIMAAN , however , by its very definition, there is no comparison. There is only SVA (self) there to assess. There is no other to compare with. Hence, in SVAABHIMAAN, there is a sense of duty in you. You feel there: I AM SADHAK, HOW CAN I DO ANTI STRIVING DEED ? HOW CAN I DO ASAADHAN? When you think so, then this SVAABHIMAAN becomes an aid to your goal. Because you have developed a care in you- I am Sadhak, I will not do ASAADHAN ( anti striving deed). Hence, You must have SVAABHIMAAN but never ABHIMAAN !!!

Those who hurt others can not be called great or good people. Your mind will not get hurt watching TV shows if you are equanimous. As sadhak, one should strive to develop equanimity. Good and bad, are two sides of same coin. Good means absence of bad, and bad means absence of good. This world is creation of Paramatma. It is DUAL. Scriptures let you see both sides of coin.

If you do not hurt people then this trait should not be perceivable by you. If any trait is there in you fundamentally, then as a law, you can not see that. Refer Lord Krishna telling Arjuna in 16 th Chapter of Gita...MA SUCHAH SAMPADAM DAIVIM ABHIJATASYA BHARAT...it means what? Here Lord says to Arjuna ...You have Divine traits, do not worry. Why did Lord say so? Did not Arjuna know that ? He said so because as a law whatever is your integral , you can not see ( JUST AS: You can not see yourSELF) !!!! Here Arjuna did not know that he was a good person and hence God had to inform him that he was a good person. If you see something good in you, that means, evil is present in you and of course pride is also present in you. Any way your statement means you are ordinary person but good, and those depicted in Scriptures are great people but bad. I don't see any comparison yardstick between the two.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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Dear Murali Das, Puranas are stories depicting how at the end righteousness wins over wrong doings or how selfish actions and actions performed in vengeance, jealousy, ego, arrogance etc. bring doom to the doer. All the characters in Puranas were not great or enlightened people. They depict different characters and they too were ordinary humans and not devas. When we compare those stories with today's happening, we do not see much difference in the behavior of humans. Those stories were meant to teach us lessons how treacherous and belligerent were people even at that time and how their actions brought their own doom or why and how they were punished for their own sins or rewarded for their righteous actions. Puranas need not be taken literally in our spiritual pursuit (sadhana) where more than rituals philosophy plays a vital role. Mohan Nair

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Dear Sadhak/sadhika,

If you don't like something , and specially if it disturbs you, than stop watching it. Puranas and other stories are depicting dual nature -good-bad both sides. To show good, bad has to be shown. Use your discriminating power to accept, learn and be on the side of dharma.

You can spend your time reading Bhagwat Gita,Swami Ramsukhdasji's literature and other such scriptures which will give you direct knowledge of the Truth. That knowledge will lead you to the success and fulfillment in life and beyond.

Respecting elders does not mean you need to listen to their half baked information. Find your guide e.g. realized master or an enlighten Guru or Bhagwat Gita or literature by realized saints like Swamiji.

It is also yr duty to make yr mother aware, and realized. So read and discuss Bhagwat Gita with her. No matter how much you learn about the dual nature(Maya), you will not evolve. For the sake of your true growth in all walks of yr life it is important to realize the Truth.

May all good and auspicious things manifest on our planet. A Sadhika, Sadhna

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Hari Om

The facts about virtues ( goodness- sadguna/sadachar) and vices ( evilness- durgun/durachar) in a human life are incredible. You generate the vice of pride, when you boast or accept some sadguna/sadachaar in you. You make durgun/durachar permanent in you when you accept them to be in you !!! How incredible...! Actually, you can not talk of your being good, unless you co-relate the same with some one else being bad. All vices are human created and not God created. God is SAT, vices are ASAT. How can ASAT get created out of Sat? It is only due to pride THT you can see faults in others and goodness in yourself. One who wants to be vice-free should never look at faults of others. By looking at faults of others, your own own fault only gets strengthened and you get connected with vices and then new vices keep emerging in you. But danger is much more in the dirty habit of seeing faults in others. If you consider any other to be wrong, he will become wrong....by operation of natural laws, automatically and further that means you are already wrong. How dangerous !!! How come? When we see faults in others, he will get those faults, because by looking at faults in others, our SATYA SANKALPA FORM, renunciation, strength, etc will all get united and make the other bad ....and of course that will hurt also the evil finder.

Hence Sadhaks refrain from comparing traits and from fault finding. If some one wants to protect his faultless ness then he should stop finding faults in others. By saying ..."I am not great but good, those others are great but bad; I hardly found good people on this planet and hence I am becoming good as it is very necessary.." ....such remarks and sentiments neither help you or others. Actually more polluted your antahkrana is, more vices will be visible in others by you. When you stop seeing faults in others ( and comparing your so called good traits vis a vis others's ) , goodness manifests in you from within...! What manifests in you from within is more universal and solid, and of course that gets invisible to you.

That reminds me of the following couplet from the Saints of Sanatan Dharma:

BURA JO DEKHAN MAIN GAYAA, BURA NA MILIYA KOY ! JO MANN KHOJA AAPNA, TO MUJHSE BURA NA KOY !! When I searched for evilness in others, I did not find any one to be evil. But when I searched myself, then I found that Zi am the evil most !!!!

There are two types of people on this earth. People with Divine traits and people with Demonaic traits....as per Gita. Those with Demonaic traits have one thing in common...they consider themselves to be good and find that all others except themselves are bad, great but not good. It is because of pride only that they consider themselves to be better than others and themselves to be more happy than others. But actually they are not happy. The fire of pride and DVESHA ( hate/dislike) keeps burning within them. They are not able to see goodness in others at all, and believe that all goodness resides in them only and no where else. In this world, then, they see only evilness. ( Swamiji on Chapter 16 of Holy Gita- Sadhak Sanjeevani- 16:18) ! All gestures of people with Demonaic properties are artificial, but inside them there remains a pride that I AM GOOD. They have pride of their half cooked knowledge that I am learned all others are not. But actually, only foolishness resides in them...nothing else foolishness !!!!

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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a very pertinent questuon ==in our mythology such stories of jealousy hatred and revenge are very common --i really don;t understand this we have faith in god but such stories do not send good messages --jai shree krishnaÂ

Chaman Nigam

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All past events and scriptures are meant to chasten the mind that you have in present. Our higher mind has to be active to discern and select what is good to me. Krishna faced bad times from Kans uncle, Ram faced bad times from his own household ( step mother ), Kabir faced harrowing experience from the then Govt., and Arjan Dev ji and Guru Gobind Singh faced unmentional times. So it is important to educate " Our Own Mind ", to a path of discernment and goodness. Be contemplative.

kuldip kochhar

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Dear Sadaks, The one hurts today was hurt yesterday. Theory of Karma. Sinkandi was hurt by Beshma in her earlier birth. Now she as Sikandhi is cause of Besma death. A dobby hurt Sri Rama by his words about Mother seetha as if she was not chasteness. The same dobby come as (name I dont remember now) gets hurt by Sri Krishna. There it was Sri Rama and dobby. Here it is Sri Krishna and dobby.(Washerman). Sri hits Vaali. Valli as Zara hit Sri Krishna. It is only name changes but persons are same paying their dues. B.S

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In Puranas and Epics, all kinds of human characters are depicted. Punishment to individuals by persons who do not agree with those individuals. Usually those individuals who are punished are weak. These stories are synthesised to convey that God is powerful and one should take his help by worshiping Him. Gee Waman

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In all ages human beings have shown the basic traits of jealousy, cruelty, envy, manipulation, conspiracy to hurt others, greed, dishonesty and corruption. Depending on who reads these stories or see the similar modern day soap operas, some take all this as entertainment, some learns to be more effective in jealousy, cruelty, envy, manipulation, conspiracy to hurt others, greed, dishonesty and corruption. Some just manage to learn the opposite. There is nothing very special about such Purna stories or modern day TV serial episodes. It is better to ignore the. Those who have nothing else to do when these episodes are telecast or those who are retired and cannot work much, see these episodes. And, many of the News reprts, TV debate episodes also are themselves sop opera TV serial episodes. There is no need to think about these.

Basudeb Sen

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who said they are great people. They were egosts, arrogant, corrupt, mindless people with lust for power,money and bad things. That is why they got perished in the longrun by themselves due to their misdeeds. In history also these type demonic natured people were there. Now also such type persons exist in India everywhere. Their stories are told so that people will learn and stop/avoid becomming that type of people. But most people forget that if they act arrogantly or inhumanly they will also meet the same fate like those demonic persons

n. panda

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Dear Murari Ji & Other Interseted Bhakhtas,

Very true, good people during all time appear to suffer while cruel people appear to enjoy without much suffering!

This is mainly because of two reasons! One, they are to clear past Kara-ma Fal repayment balance and become more & more pure. Two, good people are put to test whether or not they can continue to stay on the path of righteousness. It could even good people or bad people testing good people!

Many years back, I have written a small explanation to this strange happening with Good persons that most of the time they meet suffering only while; the Bad persons enjoy life with no apparent much Sufferings. Let me repeat that writing here for the benefit of those, who often wonder about this strange and apparently illogical natural happening!

Consider: 1. Mokhsha or Self Realization or enlightenment as crossing of a huge Lake.

2. Body of any life of a soul as Boat useful to cross the huge Lake as mentioned in Sl. 1.

3. Good actions are light while; Bad actions are heavy!

4. So the Persons, who mostly does Bad actions would make their Boat (Body) heavy while; those who do good actions make their boat light.

5. Now an onlooker watching on the shore of the lake looking at both the boats would feel the light boat in trouble of wild wavy movements (Wild Jerks)due to wind while heavy boat would have smooth movement with no even small jerks as seen by the person.

6. Now the person with heavy boat continuing performing more & more bad actions would ultimately sink and never cross the lake while the person with light boat continue become more and more light and also appearing more and more troubled but would never sink and ultimately cross the lake or, say get Mokhsha!

Conclusion is that one need be continue to be good and get rid of selfishness and bad actions if he wants to cross the Lake i.e., to know the absolute truth about this manifestation!