I've been reading a lot of the rantings of Mike Sparks ( if you don't know what I'm on about check out/ ) and according to him marines aren't trained to move in bounds. Am I misunderstood or is there some truth in this? I would be grateful if anyone could tell me a bit about marine small unit tactics. Thanks.

Now I know here your "Most overated" post came from.
Sparks has a grudge against the Marine Corps. He was kicked out before finishing his MOS school as an enlistedman. Then, years later, was dropped from The Basic School. Has NO time in the operating forces. Never been a NCO, SNCO or officer on active duty. Even though he claims to have been. He hates the Corps because we kicked him out and didn't recognise "His Genius"
Years ago, I joined one of his "Reform" groups. Was soon kicked off when I challenged some of his claims and experences. I was either in units or had friends in those units that Sparks claimed to have been in.
He has many e-mail addressed and will send hisself messages from "High level insiders" to back up his positions. He really is a work.
But for the USMC vs US Army fireteam question.
They both operate the same. I could take an Army fireteam and plug them into a Marine squad with no problems.
The only difference between the two are that the MC has 3 fireteams per squad and company level mortars (60MM). And the Army has 2 teams per squad and mortars are a Battalion level asset. Not 100% sure on the mortar part, army wise.
Its only when you get to Brigade and above that tactics start to differ.
Here is the main difference.
In the army a Mech infantryman rides a Bradley. His mech company Marine rides in a AAV.
The Air Assault infantryman goes to work via CH-60
CH-47. Marine in the helo company goes to work via
CH-46 and CH-53.
I don't think the Army has a boat company. Marines use CRRCs.
Soldiers jump out of airplanes, Marines are smart enough to wait until the plane lands to get off.
(Sorry, had to do it)
I would almost venture to say that small unit tactics are the same, or darn close, in most of the
modern armies in the world.
you should visit some of Sparks UFO sites too.

concur, there is little difference between Marine and Army small unit tactics and what few there are have to do with organizational diffrences (ie, Marine Corps 13 man, 3 fireteams per Squad vs Army 9 man 2 fireteams.) The Army's Light and Airborne units do have 60mm mortars at the Company level like the Corps but the Corps does not have any Guided Anti-tank weapons (Javeline) until you get to Battalion level in the Weapons Company. The SMAW is used at the Company level in the Corps.

In the Iraq war, I have heard a lot of news references to the effect that the Marine doctrine is "manouver warfare". I have not heard this term connected with the Army, just the Marines. To me, this is a reference to the book by Robert Leonhard (US Army), The Art of Maneuver (c. 1991). It's the best book I ever read on Strategy. Anybody else know anything about this?

Keep in mind that the Army and Marines use very terms to describe the same thing. Such as Army TA-50 and Marine 782 gear, it all means combat equipment. So, the Marine "maneuver warfare" could equal the Army "individual movement techniques (IMT)".

1. I am the REAL Mike Sparks. I do not waste time on any bulletin boards--they are a waste of time because there is no resolution of topics when people take public stances for their views and their views contradict others on the board. The place to debate issues are in PRIVATE, that's how we do it in the 1st TSG (A).

I am posting here because someone has alerted me to some LIBEL I want to correct.

However, since I am a nice guy I will give some topical input, too.

2. You may disagree with me--but you have no right to LIE ABOUT ME. I am a graduate of both enlisted NCO and officer USMC training--ALL OF IT.

True, I detest what I found after spending a decade of my life there; a malignant narcissist outfit that has no humility to admit to problems and solve them. There is no HONOR without first having HUMILITY.

"He was kicked out before finishing his MOS school as an enlistedman."

False. Look at web page above. As a fully qualified 0311 infantry MOS rifleman I transferred into the USMC PLC program as a SGT E5.

"Then, years later, was dropped from The Basic School."

False. I am an USMC The Officer's Basic Course (TBS) graduate.

"Has NO time in the operating forces."

False. I have been in both the USMCR, USARNG and USAR since 1981.

"Never been a NCO, SNCO or officer on active duty."

False. I have much time on active duty when going to schools--that I graduate from---and when mobilized as a reservist.

"Even though he claims to have been. He hates the Corps because we kicked him out and didn't recognise 'His Genius'"

False. Ask me instead of putting false words in my mouth to be your "strawman". Have some decency.

"Years ago, I joined one of his 'Reform' groups. Was soon kicked off when I challenged some of his claims and experences. I was either in units or had friends in those units that Sparks claimed to have been in."

You will have to IDENTIFY yourself. If you were kicked out it was because you were being a troll/disruptive and/or lying about your identity.

You have not gotten even the basic facts about myself or my career. It's doubtful you have any actual contact with anyone I knew in the USMC/R. Most everyone I remember that were honest concluded the USMC was a waste of time and had left long before I did. My USMCR pal Jon S. from college summed it up best:

"The USMC thinks its shit doesn't stink".

After all these years, I cannot top his saying for brevity and accuracy.

"He has many e-mail addressed and will send hisself messages from "High level insiders" to back up his positions. He really is a work."

False. I have compartmentalized functions so I can keep track of them like most of you do. I do not mix business with personal matters.

"They both operate the same. I could take an Army fireteam and plug them into a marine squad with no problems."

False. The Army 9-man squad is based on a FIGHTING FIRETEAM LEADER (FTL) who they look at for an example--and he is focused on the terrain and the enemy.

The USMC 13-man clusterfuck squad is based on FTLs that are CONSTANTLY LOOKING BACK AT THE SQUAD LEADER FOR STEERING GUIDANCE. Their fireteams have resultingly their pointmen LOOKING BACK AT THEM!!! This means 3 riflemen on point and 3 FTLs--6 men out of 13 are INWARDLY FOCUSED ON WHAT THE SQUAD LEADER WANTS and NOT the terrain/enemy. The result is this clusterfuck crashes into the terrain and enemy with resultant casualties and battle losses. It's WW2 Iwo Jima we-are-going-to-lose-half-of-us-in-the-first 1,000 yards BS. It's frontal assault BS perpetuated because the selfish USMC bureaucracy wants to keep the 13 man-slots for $$$$ budgetary reasons.

I say drop one fireteam from each squad and form a WEAPONS SQUAD to keep your damn man-slots and equip them with anti-material rifles and American RPGs so we can actually have some High Explosive (HE) shock action against things like enemies hiding behind thick Afghan walls. Better yet, have the 4th Squad each operate a High Technology M113 AmphiGavin for armored cross-country mobility to avoid roads and land mines, firepower and amount of supplies superior to manpacking that is CH-53E internally air transportable OVER SEA MINES.

If you ever were in the USMC you weren't there long enough to grasp the concept of what your talking about.

"The Army 9-man squad is based on a FIGHTING FIRETEAM LEADER (FTL) who they look at for an example--and he is focused on the terrain and the enemy.

The USMC 13-man clusterfuck squad is based on FTLs that are CONSTANTLY LOOKING BACK AT THE SQUAD LEADER FOR STEERING GUIDANCE. Their fireteams have resultingly their pointmen LOOKING BACK AT THEM!!! This means 3 riflemen on point and 3 FTLs--6 men out of 13 are INWARDLY FOCUSED ON WHAT THE SQUAD LEADER WANTS and NOT the terrain/enemy. The result is this clusterfuck crashes into the terrain and enemy with resultant casualties and battle losses. It's WW2 Iwo Jima we-are-going-to-lose-half-of-us-in-the-first 1,000 yards BS. It's frontal assault BS perpetuated because the selfish USMC bureaucracy wants to keep the 13 man-slots for $$$$ budgetary reasons."

There's no way you could've possible gotten that more wrong. The USMC & Army's choice of fireteam configuration has more to do w/their Warfighting philosophy.

The USMC's philosophy has & will always be Decentralized Command & Control Authority. The Small Unit Leader, down to the smallest level, trained as an Independent Operator under the Commander's Overall Intent. This has always been true of the USMC.

Not always been true of the US Army. The Army, until recently, has always been a Centralized Authority focused Org. That's why it prefers the 9 man squad, the 13man squad is considered unneccessarily large & unwieldly for the USA's Plt Cmdr using centralized, Plt Centric tactics.

The USMC has always been Squad Centric. The 13man squad allows for much more dispersion & requires the Plt Cmdr to defer to the judgement of the squad ldr's view of the situation as he sees it & his understanding of the PC's overall objective.

This was epitomized by the USMC's development of the "Strategic Corporal" & "Three Block War". Both began the early '90s to address, do to the greater dispersion of USMC small units, developing the ability of Corporal/Fire Team Leaders to operate & make decisions, do to Geographic Isolation (separated by building, terrain, or vegatation), on the understanding of Overall Strategic Guidance not just the Tactical level.

An example of this was in '04 when the Marines took over for the 82nd AB in Al Anbar in Ramadi. The 82nd's BN assigned to Ramadi was Centrally located, sending out large Co.-sized patrols mostly during the day to various parts of the city.

When I MEF took over, the BN (2/4) they sent to Ramadi immediately dispersed into Squad-sized Combat Out Posts spread thru-out the city allowing for most of Ramadi to be patrolled 24hrs a day.

Several Army units later adopted this & Petraeus eventually brought it to all Army units operating in Iraq. At the time this was not popular among many Army Cmdrs b/c it called for Decentralizing Authority to Small Unit Ldrs & having them operate at levels of dispersion that most Army units weren't comfortable with.

"The Army has concepts of movement like IMT, overwatch, bounding overwatch etc. that are head and shoulder superior to the do-what-you-are-told lemming USMC infantry. Go research it."

Who doesn't use bounding overwatch.. but what it sounds like your refering to is using a Squad Designated Marksman in the formation, a tactic the Marines call Guardian Angel & were using for years before the Army.

"The Army combat engineers have assault boats. I was in a small boat unit in the USMC and I was tasked to research the issue. We botched CRRC ops for many years trying to keep up with the SEAL Joneses."

Yeah but the CE's boating capability isn't for assaulting but engineering.. can they be used to support assault, of course, but thats a big difference fr/having or training for a Small Boat assault capability.