crabsno termites:Why is it any concern of the government if anyone wants to end their life?

Because someone who thinks that there's no one in the world who can solve his emotional problems is not the same as someone who's wanting to die with dignity and end the pain from a terminal disease from which there is no hope of a quality life or recovery.

BronyMedic:crabsno termites: Why is it any concern of the government if anyone wants to end their life?

Because someone who thinks that there's no one in the world who can solve his emotional problems is not the same as someone who's wanting to die with dignity and end the pain from a terminal disease from which there is no hope of a quality life or recovery.

One is a mental illness. The other is basic dignity.

It's not quite as simple as that though.

What if one actually suffers from mental illness? (as opposed to most Farkers who claim they enjoy every minute of it).

I can't say there's no cure or even any treatment that may help, but the same could be said of any physical disease.

Should the mentally ill not be allowed to die with dignity? Who gets to make that call? What criteria do they apply?

Okay, you're terminally ill. The doctors all agree you won't live more than 6 months and even though you will be in some great pain we're gonna have to make you ride this one out.

Oh, hi, suicidal guy? You say you can never sleep and you have tried every medication ever known to man and you still hate life? Oh, come now. You're in great health. Maybe we should lock you up so you can live another 50 years - in prison, just so you don't kill yourself.

What if one actually suffers from mental illness? (as opposed to most Farkers who claim they enjoy every minute of it).

I can't say there's no cure or even any treatment that may help, but the same could be said of any physical disease.

Should the mentally ill not be allowed to die with dignity? Who gets to make that call? What criteria do they apply?

Okay, you're terminally ill. The doctors all agree you won't live more than 6 months and even though you will be in some great pain we're gonna have to make you ride this one out.

Oh, hi, suicidal guy? You say you can never sleep and you have tried every medication ever known to man and you still hate life? Oh, come now. You're in great health. Maybe we should lock you up so you can live another 50 years - in prison, just so you don't kill yourself.

Indeed. People without crippling depression don't realize how much mental illness can just hurt. There's not really anywhere you can point to, but the misery is absolute.A very good article about Borderline Personality Disorder can be found at www.borderlinesworld.com

Guess this way if he dies at least if he has life insurance or something, his family will get that, and probably a wrongful death settlement....or he'll probably get money from the city if he lives.......guess he knew what he was doing.

to some extent, the purpose of having suicide on the books as illegal is to allow the police to get the fellow to some help ideally. I'm not sure how many cases of attempted bridge diving ever make it to trial, they just get released to the supposed care of a mental health unit./yes, quite well aware of the weaknesses in that whole system.//nurse///with a goatee.

What if one actually suffers from mental illness? (as opposed to most Farkers who claim they enjoy every minute of it).

Semantics and a shameful false comparison with a terminal illness. Mental illness is treatable, and that treatment can result in a great quality of life for people who do comply with treatment and stay on their regiment.

Happy Hours:I can't say there's no cure or even any treatment that may help, but the same could be said of any physical disease.

Because a 16 year old girl who's boyfriend just dumped her, and a 34 year old man facing foreclosure on his house are the same thing as a person with less than six months to live and in horrid pain from cancer, and a patient facing the progression of huntingdon's chorea.

Yes. There ARE treatments. Yes, there ARE people out there who live quality lives with mental illness. People who think it's OK for the mentally ill to kill themselves are the same caliber of people who will gladly stigmatize those WITH mental illness to the point they never seek treatment because of the stigma, or exile themselves to the streets.

Happy Hours:Should the mentally ill not be allowed to die with dignity? Who gets to make that call? What criteria do they apply?

Nice skirting of the actual issue. Would allowing a mentally ill person to live with treatment cause them intractable pain and no quality of life? Yes, they should be allowed to die of dignity of a condition that will kill them. Not because the voices in their heads tell them to pull the trigger, and not because Miss Margeret thinks she should kill herself because she's a failure of a new mother.

Happy Hours:Oh, hi, suicidal guy? You say you can never sleep and you have tried every medication ever known to man and you still hate life? Oh, come now. You're in great health. Maybe we should lock you up so you can live another 50 years - in prison, just so you don't kill yourself.

A Residential Treatment institution is NOT prison.

Why stop with the mentally ill. Why not anyone who's ill and a burdon on society. For a greater people, you undestand!

BronyMedic:Semantics and a shameful false comparison with a terminal illness. Mental illness is treatable, and that treatment can result in a great quality of life for people who do comply with treatment and stay on their regiment.

That's true of every law. Murder is only illegal if you do a crappy job of it. Speeding is only illegal if you do a crappy job of it. etc...etc...

It still *means* something for something to be illegal. It's a moral judgement reflecting the will of our society. If something is illegal, it's (at least supposed to be) *wrong*. Murder is *wrong*. Suicide is *wrong*. If it wasn't wrong; why would it be illegal?

Fark_Guy_Rob:Happy Hours: Can we spread the word? Maybe we can educate children too.

If you're gonna kill yourself, kill yourself.

Do NOT take out a whole bunch of others who had no say in the matter.

Do NOT make the cops shoot you - as you can see it didn't exactly work in this situation and there's a very good chance he'll never be let out of custody again.

If you wanna make a cry for help, do it without the gun.

If you wanna kill yourself, just do it.

We'd need to start by making suicide legal.

But that won't happen for all sorts of reasons (political/religious).

Find me a single state where "suicide" is illegal. First off, how do you charge the offender? You can't. Secondly, so far as I know, an attempt at suicide, unless you also commit an actual crime (illegal possession of a firearm, criminal recklessness, etc) will not land you in jail in any state. It will, however, land you with what's called an "Immediate Detention" which a judge can order extended for a period of time. You can't, however (to my knowledge) go to jail for an attempted suicide.

I should clarify that most state, I'd venture to say all, have laws against aiding, abetting, or encouraging a person to commit suicide, or inducing a person to commit suicide. But a person who tries to down a shiatload of pills, or slits their wrists in an attempt to die, isn't going to jail for the crime of "attempting suicide."

If somebody can cite me a law in any state, I'll happily admit that I'm wrong.

That's true of every law. Murder is only illegal if you do a crappy job of it. Speeding is only illegal if you do a crappy job of it. etc...etc...

It still *means* something for something to be illegal. It's a moral judgement reflecting the will of our society. If something is illegal, it's (at least supposed to be) *wrong*. Murder is *wrong*. Suicide is *wrong*. If it wasn't wrong; why would it be illegal?

HideAndGoFarkYourself:Fark_Guy_Rob: Happy Hours: Can we spread the word? Maybe we can educate children too.

If you're gonna kill yourself, kill yourself.

Do NOT take out a whole bunch of others who had no say in the matter.

Do NOT make the cops shoot you - as you can see it didn't exactly work in this situation and there's a very good chance he'll never be let out of custody again.

If you wanna make a cry for help, do it without the gun.

If you wanna kill yourself, just do it.

We'd need to start by making suicide legal.

But that won't happen for all sorts of reasons (political/religious).

Find me a single state where "suicide" is illegal. First off, how do you charge the offender? You can't. Secondly, so far as I know, an attempt at suicide, unless you also commit an actual crime (illegal possession of a firearm, criminal recklessness, etc) will not land you in jail in any state. It will, however, land you with what's called an "Immediate Detention" which a judge can order extended for a period of time. You can't, however (to my knowledge) go to jail for an attempted suicide.

You can't prosecute a dead man, sure. But if something is illegal, inevitably, attempted something is also illegal. As a result, attempted suicide would be illegal and as a result assisting someone to commit suicide is also illegal.

I'm not a lawyer and I'm not trying to be pedantic - so I'm not going to split hairs between 'being arrested' and being 'detained forever' or the difference between being locked in a 'cell' and locked in a 'room'. In either case, if representatives of the US government have the ability to detain you, against your will, for attempting to commit suicide - it's 'illegal' for all practical definitions of illegal.

One specific state, California, has 'Involuntary psychiatric hold' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_5150). That means, in California, you can be detained, forever, so long as someone who is 'qualified' decides you are a danger to yourself.

Only three states allow someone to assist a person in their suicide (Montana, Oregon, and Washington) - and they have very specific criteria (you must have less than 6 months to live, you must be terminally ill, you must be in pain, etc, etc....); in the other 47 states, helping someone to commit suicide is illegal. A listing of the specific laws and penalties can be found at http://euthanasia.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000132 - but the penalty for helping someone kill themselves is pretty serious in many states:

Up to 15 years in prison and/or a fine up to $30,000 if suicide results; up to seven years in prison and/or a fine up to $14,000 if attempted suicide results.

That's from Minnesota - which is interesting in that it specifies what happens if you help someone *ATTEMPT* to kill themselves. So, in this state, even aiding in an attempt is severely punishable.

So, without splitting hairs....If you attempt to kill yourself or even make plans to kill yourself; you can be locked up against your will.If anyone tries to help you kill yourself, in 47 states, they've committed a very serious crime. And in the 3 - unless you are in a very particular situation - they've still committed a very serious crime.

doglover:If we would just shoot all the people who threaten suicide non-fatally, eventually people would stop using it as a cry for attention.

"Oh, woe is me. I'm going to shoot myself!"

"No you're no. Illuminate him."

i like animals more than people but golly gee whiz. there are people who attempt suicide or threaten to attempt suicide because their life situation or mental health condition is such that it appears death is the best choice. IMHO a person in this condition is in the throes of madness. they are crying out for help and are out of their mind, to coin the phrase. people with mental health situations are already at a disadvantage with members of law enforcement, either because the police person pointing their weapon doesn't know or doesn't care about the reason behind the action. judging by online news their are enough civilians shot by law enforcement on a weekly basis. some of them are even justifiable but encouragement to add to the tally is harsh.