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Topic: this sums it up (Read 9453 times)

I enjoy the political conversations in The Coffee House. I read every post but rarely respond. My writing skills are not as polished as they should be. I seem to always side with the conservatives but I seek to understand why the liberals feel the way they do. I live in a small city in the south where 75% are low income. I see first had the system abuse. People are are not motivated to seek a better life when they can do nothing and get free "stuff". I work several jobs and drive a school bus to get health insurance. Do I want to get up at 4:30 and take children to school that have no respect for anyone or anything? No but I must have health insurance and I do what I have to doe to do to make a living and provide for my family. It may mean working a little extra or doing without something. Steve

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Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resembalance to the first. - Ronald Reagan

I think our conservative friends might discover than many of us labeled “liberal” despise all the spending Obama and the rest of them do. I sure do. I used to always vote Republican because back then their main focus was fiscal prudence (supposedly). Today’s Republicans are not the same as your fathers’ Oldmobile. I think they died about the same time as Olds did. I often do vote Republican for local and State offices because they are still focused on fiscal conservatism as opposed to all the other divisive issues the national Republicans are obsessed with. I’m also completely sick of the “just say no” method of compromise.

This is all getting rather tiresome. Truly, what is essential is invisible to the eye.

What we are currently experincing today is a "fevered and frightened" ruling class (and their wannabees), lamenting the rise of a new, politically, ethnically and religiously diverse "new" class (surprise!), one that according to some (generally and historically, alleged self-proclaimed conservatives) is set out to destroy "all that is well and good" (think Mayberry) and bring the American Experiment crashing down to the ground.

One "Major" problem w/ that assessment; It describes America from our very beginnings.

One need only return to what was spoken about the Irish as they were settling in as new Americans, or the Catholics, Jews, Germans, Italians and oh...oh, we can't forget how the MORMONS were treated by their fellow Americans, can we?

iddee, you try to convince people of your way of thinking by insulting them? I don't hear anyone explaining how the heck you come up with communists in American govt. Just hurling more insults.

Many people don't agree with liberal views. I don't call them idiots or insinuate they're brainless. I "get it" that they just don't agree. This nastiness doesn't help me appreciate the conservative viewpoint and illustrates my earlier comment when I said that I cannot find conservatives who will actually just talk about the issues.

X:X X:X

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"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."

Not people, but persons. Only the truth as I see it. Some liberals, like Bluebee, actually make a lot of sense. Some just sound like so much babble. Like one saying he would let his business go bankrupt before he would replace a worker or reduce his wages if he didn't produce. Total BS, in my opinion.

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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

I'm more convinced than ever that you must get something out of inventing enemies where none exist. It is most unfortunate and I'm sorry. It is becoming an increasingly troubling trend IMO especially w/ the advent of modern technology, but historically its nothing new.

For those who remember the way it use to be, before the WEB, the 'Cranks of the World' pretty much kept to themselves, thinking/believing 'they' were the 'only' ones who understood their particular worldview. With the WEB we can now find each other and gather all kinds of crank support for our cranky beliefs, whether those beliefs are from the right, the left or outerspace :-D.

The Slave Masters have just gotten better at leading us around at their whim is all, but w/ over 2000 years of documented history "we" should have known better by now.

The changes that are coming, whether we like them, love them or hate them, will come. As 'individuals' some will rejoice and some will condemn, but without coming together we all suffer in the end.

Well, all but the "Puppet Masters" that is.

« Last Edit: November 19, 2012, 12:31:22 PM by T Beek »

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"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."

TBeek, I don't think I am trying to make enemies when I don't believe a man when he says he would continue down a path knowing that it would take him into bankruptcy. If he would, then I really think he needs help beyond anything he is going to find on an internet forum.

I would rather believe he is like the song ""That's my story and I'm sticking to it"". He's not backing down even when he knows he has been proven wrong. sorry, but if you aren't telling the truth, I don't want to continue the conversation. If you are, seek help and then return.

Unless, of course, you are simply trolling, in which case I don't want to participate, either.

BYE

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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

So your saying the only truth that exists is the truth according to iddee? Are you really that intolerant? That naive, that obtuse? That people who don't follow your particular cult are all idiots or liars? Say it isn't so iddee.

Really, you do know its just YOUR opinion, don't you?

Well I guess a reading of your past posts tells the story, doesn't it?

The only thing 'proven' by this particular push/pull is that 'meaningful conversation, actual dialogue and debate' is impossible here and at best, not welcome.

Calling me a liar (you enjoy calling people names, right?) seems like the end of any possible reconcile.

XIN LOI Brother...........I can go back to ignoring you and your comments if I've upset you.

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"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."

TBeek, I don't think I am trying to make enemies when I don't believe a man when he says he would continue down a path knowing that it would take him into bankruptcy. If he would, then I really think he needs help beyond anything he is going to find on an internet forum.

I was using the example of my parents. They cut my brother's wages in half, and zeroed out their own. Even with that, they need to suspend wage increases (maybe even cut wages a bit?), expect their employees to forego normally hefty year-end bonuses, and cut some benefits. It wasn't pretty, but their employees seem to know they're decent employers, and they could see other construction companies going completely under, so they were amazingly willing for the changes.

My point is that my parents weren't making record profits while doing all the austerity measures for their employees, and that makes ALL the difference.

iddee--I spent the whole weekend talking politics with my aforementioned brother. He and his wife are conservative, my sis, her husband and I are liberal, and we had some excellent conversations. It helped me see that we are all far more similar than we would have thought. They don't like welfare fraud. Neither do I. They see a need for a safety net in true need situations. So do I. They want responsible govt spending. As do I. I want a strong military, but I worry about prisoners from 9-11 days still not charged, still not processed, still not home. So does my brother. I don't feel the need to stock up on guns, but I can see why he may. We may disagree on exactly which programs we want to see funded or eliminated, but the basics we agree on.

This nonstop divisiveness worries me, because nothing gets done in an environment where nobody can even hear the other person talking. I want my politicians, as imperfect as they are, to get to work and get something done. I don't want their conversations at the Capitol to resemble ours here online. If I refuse to acknowledge another's points of view, will they listen to mine? Can we possibly move the country forward if we're too busy shouting to listen?

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The pedigree of honey Does not concern the bee; A clover, any time, to him Is aristocracy. ---Emily Dickinson

most of us are closer than WE think, but there are elements that have an interest in keeping us divided. + we tend to believe what we are told rather than doing our own homework. that makes us easy to manipulate.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

Luvin, that is a perfect post. I agree with it completely. My conversation with TB had nothing to do with an economical downturn. It was about paying most employees what they earned, but paying one individual employee nearly twice what he earned. First, it would be a non-ending drain on the business. Second, it wouldn't be long before the other employees got tired of him collecting the same wage and doing 60% of the work they are doing, so they would be leaving and only the loser would be left.

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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

I have no problem with employers paying more than what an employee is worth. If it's his/her choice. I have no problem with an employer cutting wages and benefits to survive. The employee has the right to go somewhere else. I do have a problem with government dictating wages. Would the employee be just as happy in exchange for a guaranteed wage from a job at ,lets say for example,cleaning port a johns that the employer would be guaranteed he could never leave his job for a better one,always be on time and put forth a good work ethic everyday?Why is this idea of guaranteed minimum wage not come with a mandate for minimum work?

One known fact, a company cannot pay more in wages than it takes in in revenue for long and survive.Except if the company is the GIV'MINT.

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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

most of us are closer than WE think, but there are elements that have an interest in keeping us divided. + we tend to believe what we are told rather than doing our own homework. that makes us easy to manipulate.

kathyp; Wow, you have been listening afterall, I couldn't have said that better. Actually, I say it all the time, yet am attacked for it ;)

I'm still impressed X:X X:X X:X

« Last Edit: November 20, 2012, 06:37:37 AM by T Beek »

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"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."

Luvin, that is a perfect post. I agree with it completely. My conversation with TB had nothing to do with an economical downturn. It was about paying most employees what they earned, but paying one individual employee nearly twice what he earned. First, it would be a non-ending drain on the business. Second, it wouldn't be long before the other employees got tired of him collecting the same wage and doing 60% of the work they are doing, so they would be leaving and only the loser would be left.

Not even close to the q posed to me by iddee. We NEVER had a 'conversation' it digressed long before that happened, especially the one he's now claiming. And now 'assumptions" have been added to the mix :roll:

Still waiting (not holding my breath) for answers to 'my' Q from iddee and several others.

"You are all aware that the frontal lobe of the cerebral cortex gives us the ability to store and recall past events as they occurred, right?"

Who want's to know my birthday? ( JPBEEGETTER) Why? Wanna be friendsssssss? This place ain't very friendly.

« Last Edit: November 20, 2012, 09:22:59 AM by T Beek »

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"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."