mosque near ground zero greenlighted

Originally posted by The Founders
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or
of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

That's the First Amendment. I suspect that some people need to review it.

And Congress hasn't, and can't, according to the Constitution. But someday the Government will no doubt try.

But what if allowing a religion to take root would someday jeopardize that freedom......As Clarence Thomas once remarked about, how do we go from
slavery to freedom if slavery is Constitutional?

Originally posted by Big Trouble in Little Chi
We cannot allow the actions of a few dictate our judgement of a population of over 1 billion. Their religion is not interfering with your freedoms,
but the laws that have passed as of late have.

Hello Big Trouble,

Can you post a link to a legitimate poll of the Muslin World Population that backs up your claim..... I would really like to believe what you have
just stated.

Also, just out of curiosity, what does Chi stand for?

"With about 1.57 billion Muslims comprising about 23% of the world's population[8] (see Islam by country), Islam is the second-largest religion
in the world"

Yeah, but maybe you misunderstood my question, or perhaps no one has ever taken a poll of Muslim attitudes and opinions on various aspects of Western
Society.

I don't recall seeing that movie, but if you used it in your name it must have been pretty good.

edited to add...I didn't word my question correctly.....the poll I was referring to is one that is indicative of the % of Muslims in the world who
believe in waging literal war on the West, among other things. Attitudes and Opinions. Questions and Answers. Facts, Percentages, what is going
on in the Muslim Psyche? Are there any credible and accurate polls that have been taken on these issues?

Look we can't be afraid of an entire people's religion just because 19 lunatic murderers attacked, thats if you believe that story anyways.

You look at this place of worship as if it is going to be some terrorist training academy, based on what exactly? Your disdain towards a religion
because of 19 out of 1,000,000,000+?

I don't know how many are "radical", but I do know a defining factor in any increases of # of "radicals" do not have to do with any mosque. If
anything, increasing #'s may be due to the constant bigotry, anger, a media that portrays them in a negative light, or the bloodshed in 2 wars
against Islam.

Good points about radicalization, and the younger the people are the more susceptible. I sometimes wonder if American children of a certain age when
9/11 happened were exposed to too much coverage as their parents sat and watched, horrified and if this might not have had some lasting effects on
their psyches. You might be interested in this recent study. It speaks of
radicalization and what can be done to prevent it.

However, while acknowledging and admiring many aspects of Western democracy, those surveyed do not favor wholesale adoption of Western models of
democracy. Many appear to want their own democratic model that incorporates Sharia -- and not one that is simply dependent on Western values.
Actually, few respondents associate "adopting Western values" with Muslim political and economic progress. Abuses in the name of Sharia have not led
to wholesale rejection of it.

In our data, the emphasis that those in substantially Muslim countries give to a new model of government -- one that is democratic yet embraces
religious values -- helps to explain why majorities in most countries, with the exception of a handful of nations, want Sharia as at least "a"
source of legislation.

Saturday, July 24, 2010 Persecution of Christians in the Muslim World: Report

While most Muslim states have signed United Nations declarations on human rights, they usually add caveats stating these are accepted as long as
they do not contradict Islamic law (shari‘a). Shari‘a is inherently discriminatory to non-Muslims and strongly influences the thinking and
behavior of most Muslims, whether or not it has any formal place in a country’s legislation.

Christians face a variety of situations and attitudes in Muslim majority countries. The experience of Christians in stable moderate states like Jordan
is quite different from that of Christians in Iran, Saudi Arabia or Sudan.

Root Causes of Persecution.......
The first generation of Muslims was a minority in the non-Muslim world it set out to conquer. For the Muslims, this created a sense of defensiveness
and a fear of being overwhelmed by the conquered communities that persist today in spite of centuries of Muslim dominance. Even in modern secular
Muslim-majority states, Islam and shari’a have such a hold on public perceptions that attitudes of contempt and practices of discrimination against
non-Muslims are accepted as normal.

edited to add....Look at all the spots on the map where Christians are being persecuted by Muslims,.......and I saw a another Beast rising out of
the Earth....Apocalypse 13:1....You can see the tail of the monster down around New Zealand.....It sort of looks like it's turning into a dinosaur or
a behemoth on the map, with the small head of the brontosaurus in Cuba, and Central and South America....Now just imagine its long skinny neck
stretching across the Atlantic connecting the head to the body.....interesting, yes?

Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth
Adevoc, I seriously doubt that our secular overlords will ever gain enough power to prevent churches, mosques, synagogues, and other houses of
worship from thriving in America. Over 90% of the people in the country subscribes to some form of religion. Nobody will ever let that
happen.

Gosh, ya think? If you really think that I am worried about the US doing away with religion then you are not paying attention to what I am posting.

Sure they have taken prayer out of the public schools and whatnot, but as with the mosque, these are matters of separation of church and
state.

They have take what out of what?

No one wants to see taxpayer dollars go to the Imam to further his secretive funding for the mosque...I wish you could prove me wrong on
this

Why should I prove you wrong on this? Who is making that argument? I only see people opposing the mosque going up altogether. If it is a matter of tax
dollars, that is a different issue, no?

But don't worry Adevoc, The 80% of the country who are Christians will never allow what you are talking about to happen.....

You really did not understand anything in my post, did you? That and the fact that you just made that 80% up or pulled it from your underpants makes
it a little hard to take this seriously.

Hell, we all need Satanism too. Without you guys, we will have no antagonist to vilify, like Satan, who is your lord and master I
presume.

Respectfully.

You assume wrong and you are doing a great job vilifying Muslims, you do not need anything I have.

Originally posted by neo96
correct me if im wrong here but flying planes in to buildings killing people is infringing on the rights of others.

I am pretty sure that is already against the law so your argument is kind of silly. Do you need a new law to specifically spell it out that way or are
hijacking and murder laws good enough for you the way we have them?

Can you post a link to a legitimate poll of the Muslin World Population that backs up your claim..... I would really like to believe what you have
just stated.

Also, just out of curiosity, what does Chi stand for?

Really? You cannot find a poll that shows over 1 billion Muslims are not terrorists because of 9/11? It is right next to the "poll" that shows all
Catholics are not child rapists. Should be easy to spot.

I know Ground Zero is not mine alone; I must share this sanctuary with tourists, politicians, anyone who chooses to come, whatever their
motivations or intentions. But a mosque nearby -- even a proposed one -- is already transforming the site from a sacred ground for reflection, so
desperately needed by the families who lost loved ones, to a battleground for religious and political ideologies. So many people from different
nationalities and religions were killed that day. This site should be a neutral place for all to come in peace and remember. I believe my mother would
have thought so as well.

Next Neda Bolourchi explains why she and her family moved to America.

The Iranian revolution compelled my family to flee to America when I was 12 years old. Yet, just over two decades later, the militant version of
our faith caught up with us on a September morning. I still identify as a Muslim. When you are born into a Muslim family, there is no way around it,
no choices available: You are Muslim. I am not ashamed of my faith, but I am ashamed of what is done in its name.

She has more to say of importance than what I posted on here. I feel she shows great courage and class when writing this.

It would be great to hear from more American Muslims regardless of their position.

Would be sort of like people in the Middle East blaming all Christians for the murders of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and Afghans because some
Christians state that they're doing it for god and using weapons with annotations to bible verses on them? I hear those invaders use churches and
military bases to recruit and train their extremists..even bases right in the Middle East.

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