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Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders

If Dane has another point in there, maybe you or him could let me know what it is?

I'm finding the criticism being aimed at Rodgers really ridiculous. He is five months into the most difficult job a Liverpool manager has faced in 50 years, and being moaned at for decisions that are either out of his control, or he is forced to make.

I'm wondering what happened to the old cliche that Liverpool fans give their manager time?

You've said in a couple of threads now that Rodgers should be doing better because Rafa won the CL with Traore and Baros. It's really not fair to look at a miracle from a bone fide genius as a bench mark, but regardless doesn't the fact that Rafa inherited a squad actually in the Champions League tell us something? He still had to sacrifice the league and domestic cups to win it, and duly - until the miracle if Istanbul - was criticised for doing so.

Rodgers has inherited the worst and thinnest Liverpool team team in my memory and is almost expected to brush aside any team we face.

You also said a few times we are being 'conditioned'. Are you, like a few others here, suspicious that the owners are training us to accept mediocrity while they deviously let their 350m investment rot?

The reason why everyone at the club from Ridgers to the owners feels the need to try to manage expectations is because Liverpool fans need to calm the fuck down, grit their teeth and accept that it's going to be a whole until we are back competing.

That isn't accepting mediocrity, being condition or any other nonsense sound bite. It's just the way it is. No other path open to us.

Watcher of the skies

isnt that the problem these days. our expectations have dropped so low under our changes this season that lose or draw no ones bothered.

im not fussed that we lost today. i wasnt fussed that we lost in the carling cup. however does than mean that i think things are fine, nothing to worry about, or that actually fans just arent that bothered anymore.

its not about this game in isolation. our opinions this season are to the point of small team mentality now. this is how fans of small clubs must feel when they have no expectations, all the time.

I think that's a bit of an over-reaction. If it had been the first leg of a standard European two-legged tie, then I'd be disappointed but not downhearted knowing that in the second leg we'd be putting out a much stronger team. Yes, I know we've already played the Russians at home but in this group thing the next game is kind of like the second leg in that it's an opportunity to put right whatever went wrong in the previous game. I'm not being indifferent, just realistic. We put out a team youngsters in hostile territory against an experienced and talented team and they nearly came back with a draw.

If BR had put out a full-strength team on a Thursday night in Moscow and then played the same players on Sunday against Chelsea I would have said he doesn't know what he's doing and should go back to managing teams that have no chance of playing in Europe. As it is he played it the right way, in my opinion. The defeat wasn't a disaster, and if we had held them to nil-nil then we'd all be singing Brendan's praises.

I know things haven't gone well lately, but we're not yet as mediocre as the likes of Villa, and we won't be so long as the owners back the manager in the transfer window.

Patience, faith, second half of the season will be better...repeat ad infinitum...

That has been the issue these days when it comes to looking at how a manager or the team performed. Any bit of criticism branded as you want the man sacked. There is no middle ground which is something I was quite shock about. The "unless you keep singing and showering praises to the manager, you are not hoping for him to succeed, and you want him out" mantra needs to stop.

Loyalty and patience, two undervalued concepts.

Mascot, I don't think anyone is going for the jugular regarding BR so far. He has the support of more than 99.9% of supporters, and rightly so. I've not read any quote anywhere asking for his head, so it's not as if the fanbase was divided on him so far. Some chose to throw their weight behind him, while others, disgruntled by the recent manager changes, lean back and chose to wait and see.

However, it's a good discussion topic to look at the line-up used, and asking if it was adequate. I'll say it once more, BR shouldn't be immune to any criticism. He has made, and will make errors in the future. Why shouldn't it be allowed to point them out, or at least discussing whether they are errors or not? Doesn't necessarily mean that anyone wants him out, does it?

My view on this is that the squad travelling to Moscow was too lightweight. I'm with Dane and redbj on their point that being LFC, we should try to win every game, regardless of the opposition, regardless of the stadium and the pitch conditions. Doesn't of course mean we'll win every match, but the intent should be there.

When I saw that line-up, I felt that BR had effectively thrown the towel in for this one. He'd save all his first-teamers for the match at Stamford Bridge, setting everything on one card. If we manage to win our match on the week-end, everyone will be happy and that loss will be forgotten. I think that's the highly ambitious and somewhat risky thought behind this. As a plus, the young players would get playing time, allowing him to assess everyone of them better.

As it is, it went off quite well so far. YB have got us out of jail again, and our qualification is still very much in our own hands. If we perform well against them in two weeks, and get the three points, we'll basically be through.

Someone asked what line-up should have been used. It's easy to say this with hindsight, but I'd have argued the same way before the game: putting Cole on the pitch was an error, and as expected by every single Liverpool fan, he didn't deliver. He's useless, and BR really should have seen this before this match already. The Swansea game was a clear indicator, and should have been the last call. Hopefully he'll bin him from now on.

So, I can clearly understand what BR was trying to do with his young line-up, and even though we lost, they'll at least have gathered experience against a good strong side in difficult conditions. Still, experience is always better when you get a result. I'd have gone with more homogeneity within the squad. I'd have taken Downing and Cole out of the team, and put Pacheco and Robinson in. We have seen how well Borrell has worked with the reserves, and how they beat everyone. They are accustomed to win, and will give everything, contrarily to Downing and Cole. The only senior player deserving to play is Carragher, because he will give everything like a 18-years old junior. That's why his inclusion is still fully justified, also to lead the young lads on the pitch.

I'd have put several first-teamers on the bench though. It's not only about being able to turn the game, but also to help the youngsters to integrate within the first team, and giving them advice before the match or at half-time etc. The captain should have been there, one of Agger or Skrtel, Sahin, and maybe even Suarez.

So, as a bottom line, I for one am quite satisfied to see BR continue to give their chance to many young players, and won't blame him for yesterday's loss. The youngsters played quite well, and can take some heart from this. We were toothless, but then again, that's not really their fault. However playing Cole, and maybe also Downing, goes down as an error in my book. The only way to go out of this with a result was by displaying 100% fighting spirit. With those two, we knew already we wouldn't get this. BR should have gone with Pacheco and Robinson in their place. This isn't some easy hindsight talk. I'd have said the same thing before the game.

Banned for the umpteenth time

I don't think we have a defeatist type attitude with the sort of starting 11 we put out. We simply don't have anyone else available to put out and that's the cold hard truth.

If Coady had scored, we would have praised Brendan for a stroke of genius. But to be fair, this tie could have finished 0-0. They made 1 mistake in the 90 and paid for it so it's not all doom and gloom given how many kids played yesterday.

If anything, I try to be pragmatic and realistic and we all need to be especially this season. The owners and Brendan have this season to 'learn' from the mistakes made last transfer window and to assess what is lacking at the end of this season and to rectify it. Any thing less and the owners I think are in for it next season.

There is no way the supporters will accept another catastrophic transfer saga yet again as we had this summer. It was not only embarrassing for a club of Liverpool's stature and reputation to go into the season with only 1 fit striker.

TIA Youth Team

Its a good point, no-one can say where we'd be if we'd shelled out that extra 2M for Dempsey, or got a couple of loan players in January having supported LFC for 45 years, I know what the good times look like but we need to be patient, (I know I know, we've head that for some years now) however unlike many fans I'm giving this guy time, he needs a good squad with depth, he does't have either just now!
YNWA

"Luisito Estamos Con Vos"

Rodgers in the papers is saying it was a great performance?Maybe it was since we played our 2nd team and had to carry Joe Cole.
Maybe Suso could have started the game and we may of got the win.Big game Sunday and we have a fresh 1st team.It is always hard playing Thur and Sat or Sunday.I do not care about the Euro cup I just want us to go up the table and I am waiting for Jan to see if the owners back the manager with the cash for 2 attackers

TIA Youth Team

you know what is really grating me about some of the comments, i was in argentina for a couple of months year before last and saw river plate relegated for the first time in their history, and the average attendances actually improved. we all know how passionate we are about our club but compared to river fans we are pedestrian, they got behind their team in a way which puts us to shame,

Actually even if Anzhi draw Udinese we will still be through (Udinese must win). So really I think it ended up being a pretty smart move to not risk any more of the first team players. Now we have a fresh squad to face Chelsea on Sunday and can still get through to the knockout stage of the EL by winning the next home game against Young Boys. This will then also allow us to rest all the first team players for the away trip to Udinese.

NEXT!

I dont have another point, only the one I've already made.
The sheer arrogance that last nights squad selection displayed, coupled with the over confidence that we'll just roll Young Boys over and it will all be ok is disturbing, and the amount of fans happy with it staggers me.

Yesterdays squad selection disrespected the quality of the opposition, the importance of the EL, and the inteligence of the fans.
I just hope that Young Boys will be the pushovers so many are expecting them to be.

Joe and Holly's Dad

I dont have another point, only the one I've already made.
The sheer arrogance that last nights squad selection displayed, coupled with the over confidence that we'll just roll Young Boys over and it will all be ok is disturbing, and the amount of fans happy with it staggers me.

Yesterdays squad selection disrespected the quality of the opposition, the importance of the EL, and the inteligence of the fans.
I just hope that Young Boys will be the pushovers so many are expecting them to be.

But the manager has a god given duty to try and win every game, especially one as potentially important as last nights may turn out to be.

So enlighten us Dane. Would you have chosen the like of Stevie, Suarez, Allen, Johnson, Skrtel and DAgger last night effectively ending any chance of getting a result on sunday? What was the alternative in your opinion?

Well-Known Member

Hope all due respect mate we didnt do a lot wrong, we played very well against a very good Anzhi side.

Anzhi using Lacina Traore to receive long balls on the counter and having a magical player like Eto'o will score against most teams including probably our senior side, the fact that they managed to get a singular goal against us aint that bad a thing.

Attacking wise we took and used every goal threat available to us except Suarez, Ngoo visa issues, Yesil and Borini out. Maybe should of started Pacheco over Cole but Pacheco didnt play well anyway.

We are struggling to score without Suarez and taking Suarez all the way to Russia for a game that wont actually decide if we qualify for the group or not would of been a mistake.

All we did wrong last night was not score a goal or two, our play and performance deserved it, but its something we have been struggling with for nearly two years.

New Member

As many others have already said, we went there with a below strength team to essentially grab a draw, with players who all have a point to prove to the manager. Its all very well and good promoting the young players to the team, and experiences like this will benefit them immensely, but they were let down by one or two of the older players.

A lot of us see Cole and Downing in the line up and think the worst, but its games like these that they need to stand up and show some fight some passion for the club who pay them handsomely, and for the fans who made the trip to watch them. I would have started Pacheco up front with Morgan as they know how each other play. Suso continues to impress, but Shelvey is just lacking a bit of composure at the moment.

TIA Youth Team

i'm not questioning your loyalty dane but, don't you think that you are being a bit of a prat with your rantings about rodgers and the team? it took an indecent amount of money for city to win the league, money we just don't have but i would sooner have 1 raheem sterling than 10 balotellis. give brendan the time he deserves and he will deliver the goods.

Loyalty and patience, two undervalued concepts.

They won't be, that you can be sure of. I watched their game against Anzhi (shoud have won that one in Russia) and their deserved home win against Udinese. Didn't see the game yesterday, but reports saying that it was deserved.

Compared to the team we played some weeks ago, they have become better organised, defensively stronger, and are still scoring goals. Bobadilla especially is in super-form right now. They have also improved in their league, after a difficult start under a new gaffer, and more importantly, they are on an upwards curve in this competition after beating Udinese twice, which gives them loads of confidence.

BR will have to field his very strongest team for that one if he wants to enjoy success against them, that's for sure.

NEXT!

So enlighten us Dane. Would you have chosen the like of Stevie, Suarez, Allen, Johnson, Skrtel and DAgger last night effectively ending any chance of getting a result on sunday? What was the alternative in your opinion?

I would have at least had a couple of the "game changers" on the bench.
We have possibly sacrificed European football after Christmas, for one 3 point league game which we'll find difficult to win anyway.

i'm not questioning your loyalty dane but, don't you think that you are being a bit of a prat with your rantings about rodgers and the team? it took an indecent amount of money for city to win the league, money we just don't have but i would sooner have 1 raheem sterling than 10 balotellis. give brendan the time he deserves and he will deliver the goods.

TIA Regular

There is a lot of critisism for Hendo around these parts, and whilst a lot is fairly justifiable, I actually thought he had a fairly solid game last night. The clear chance after Morgan slid him in behind the defence shows one thing which I think no one on here has picked up, and that is he is severely lacking self belief and confidence at the moment.

I know this from experience as I have been through similar when I was playing in my teens. I was doing reasonably well in my age group, and one day the coach of the next older team came over and said he needed a few players as they were short, so I went a played and kept getting picked after that. I struggled at the higher level due to lacking the size and strength but kept going back as I enjoyed it. But as I lost my confidence, I would start to look for the easy passes rather than backing myself which is exactly what Hendo is doing at the moment, he is looking to do the easy things rather than back himself and take a risk or 2.

Newbie

They won't be, that you can be sure of. I watched their games against Anzhi (shoud have won that one in Russia) and their deserved home win against Udinese. Didn't see the game yesterday, but reports saying that it was deserved.

Compared to the team we played some weeks ago, they have become better organised, defensively stronger, and are still scoring goals. Bobadilla especially is in super-form right now. They have also improved in their league, after a difficult start under a new gaffer, and more importantly, they are on an upwards curve in this competition here.

BR will have to field his very strongest team for that one if we want to enjoy success against them, that's for sure.

Well when we beat them away from home we played a 2nd string team as well. They have definitely looked better since then but I am pretty sure with it being a home game we will see most of the 1st team players starting against them including the likes of Suarez. Hopefully that will be enough to win and secure our place in the knockout round and even if we don't we can still progress by beating Udinese.

TIA Reserve Team

A valuable experience for Morgan,Wisdom and co. away from home against more than a few seasoned internationals.(including a couple on 'our side'?). Not too much damage ,just disappointment at a loss that could have been a win ,and there was much to their credit.
We live to'fight' another day.

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders

The sheer arrogance that last nights squad selection displayed, coupled with the over confidence that we'll just roll Young Boys over and it will all be ok is disturbing, and the amount of fans happy with it staggers me.

Hang about. Rodgers sent a team out with no hope of winning and a defeatist attitude, whilst simultaneously being arrogant enough to assume we'd get a result with a bunch of kids?

Which one is it?

Either Rodgers sent out an under strength team expecting to get a result - in which case he can be accused if arrogance, or he sent out an under strength team not expecting the result - in which case he can be accused of defeatism (but assuming we'll lose to Chelsea at the weekend is OK).

I've now got people thinking I don't want to hear criticism of Rodgers, but all I really expect is a bit of consistency.

Loyalty and patience, two undervalued concepts.

Well when we beat them away from home we played a 2nd string team as well. They have definitely looked better since then but I am pretty sure with it being a home game we will see most of the 1st team players starting against them including the likes of Suarez. Hopefully that will be enough to win and secure our place in the knockout round and even if we don't we can still progress by beating Udinese.

★★★★★★

It's great with hindsight (and this comment is loaded with it) but given our dearth of attacking options I would have taken Suarez. For all the talk of a thin squad, particularly up front, he's played 7 less games this season than he had at the equivalent stage last year.

Ok, so he had an enforced winter break last year but he's a yellow short of a suspension anyway which he's bound to pick up against Chelsea.

New Member

There is a lot of critisism for Hendo around these parts, and whilst a lot is fairly justifiable, I actually thought he had a fairly solid game last night. The clear chance after Morgan slid him in behind the defence shows one thing which I think no one on here has picked up, and that is he is severely lacking self belief and confidence at the moment.

I agree with what you have said here, as he does lack self belief and confidence, but surely as a highly paid professional footballer, he needs to grab these opportunities when he can and impress. The chance he had was a defining moment in my eyes, as he should have taken it on, could you imagine what a 22 year old Gerrard would have done in that same situation.

I've defended Henderson against some stick with my mates, as I believe that he has the potential to be a very good footballer, I just wish that BR had given him more of an opportunity to play the Lucas role since he's been injured. Doesn't Henderson play there for the England U21's?

Well-Known Member

End of the day we have lost nothing by losing this game. Udinese need a miracle turn in form, Anzhi are pretty much through but we still have our own destiny in our hands if we beat Young Boys. Beat Young Boys and we go through because I can't see Udinese getting anything in Russia when the temperature will have dropped to unholy levels in two weeks time.

In the meantime, we have rested everyone and given ourselves our best chance to beat Chelsea - with a fully fit 1st team. We probably won't beat them but at least we can actually give it a good shot.

I'd rather we waved the white flag to Anzhi when it meant nothing rather than in the Premier League, at Chelsea.

NEXT!

Hang about. Rodgers sent a team out with no hope of winning and a defeatist attitude, whilst simultaneously being arrogant enough to assume we'd get a result with a bunch of kids?

Which one is it?

Either Rodgers sent out an under strength team expecting to get a result - in which case he can be accused if arrogance, or he sent out an under strength team not expecting the result - in which case he can be accused of defeatism (but assuming we'll lose to Chelsea at the weekend is OK).

I've now got people thinking I don't want to hear criticism of Rodgers, but all I really expect is a bit of consistency.

TIA Squad Member

Players were rested for the weekend which is fair enough but wouldn't be counting on us getting much joy then either

Because, basically, we suck. The only redeeming lights are the young players doing as much as they can to shield the embarrassment of the senior boys disillusionment, decline or disinterest, and Suarez staying fit and thus far unsuspended

That's it really. Rest is looking like the type of locked in mediocrity you come to dread as a supporter and starting to suspect Rodgers is powerless to stop it unless he is able to buy in quite a bit more quality. An not that hopeful, am not sure the club hierarchy live on the same planet or really care/dare to risk much. Will see in January whether this lack of ambition is as deep rooted as am thinking it might be

Can't believe the club allowed a squad as bad as this to be allowed to operate for this club across 4 fronts this year. It's just not fit for purpose and neither are some of our administrators. There is zero definable progress except for kids getting match experience. Playing in a rubbish Liverpool team. Perhaps the worst in 50 years

This is the glass is half empty perspective. I hope you are wrong and that the progress with the youngsters getting solid match and atmosphere experience will prove beneficial overall.

Yes its disappointing that the team we fielded look so toothless but that is our reality today. I'm still optimistic that with another couple of transfer windows and hopefully improved finances for BR that we are at bottom today and the only way is up.

Young boys did us a big favour, a strong team out against them at home and a win for us may be enough to progress ... which is all we need to get from the group stage. So I'm feeling a bit better today than I was yesterday and I'm expecting us to really push Chelsea hard on Sunday. I hope Webb has his "fair" hat on.