Also remember that for every higher level zone you get to, there is less tasks (hearts) and more dynamic events. From what I hear the level 80 zone is practicaly one big dynamic event which will yield good karma vendors depending on which keep/base you (as in players) own.

For me story in a game doesnt matter much. I simply dont read anything anymore only listen to voice acted stuff. When you compare it with SW:TOR no it doesnt have the immersion level of that game. Which took you through a whole story on each world you visited, and added to that a really great personal story for most classes.

Does that make gw2 less fun. To me not really, yes the voice acting is terrible in place and has no emotion behind it but you can clearly tell the voice acting was a after thought from arena net. For the rest the personal quest is nice and the exploring is what carries the game from zone to zone. Exploring and finding events.

Explain how it gives more options? :') Because in the end it's just the same pick talents as the the trees in WoW.

You are trading cookie-cutter builds for flexibility... how can you not understand that this in itself gives you more options? Instead of focusing on the role you are supposed to be filling, you get to select a playstyle piece by piece. When you pick Mesmer you are not told "this is your illusion tree, this is your shatter tree, this is your phantasm tree, those are your three options. Good luck! P.S. only one of those will ever be viable at the same time because the game can be reduced to mathematical equations with graphics.".

No trinity means that your focus has to be spread. You cannot just run a formula and go with whatever gives you max DPS, now you have to actually find ways to be survivable, DPS AND to synergize with your team, etc. It opens TONS of options. Also keep in mind that there might not be trinity, but that doesnt mean you cannot play a role. You can focus on CC, you can focus on defensive or offensive support, you can focus on damage, or you can focus on survivability. Thats your choice now, and every class can make that decision. The game doesnt tell you upfront how to play your character, thats your decision.

If people are not allowed to make comparisons how is it people are allowed to rate a game?

You are like the little grannies at my job who will go "OOooh, 20th row, thats a good seat! How many rows are there? 23? Oooh, thats a bad seat then!".

Its just sad... are you sincerely not able to rate your enjoyment of something on its own merits without comparing to what others are doing? Are you not able to enjoy something unless its exactly the same as someting you previously enjoyed?

Besides all the things I really like in WoW and isn't available in GW2 or completely different, I just didn't enjoy playing it. It didn't gripe me like OP is explaining. (Side-note: Haven't played WoW for a year and have been looking for a replacement ever since).

And thats why we are not even talking of comparison. You are not comparing a game to WoW, you are expecting and desiring a game to BE WoW, but with different graphics. You are not actually weighting the good and bad of each game, you are just going through a checklist of "does this new game have everything WoW does in it?"

P.S. inbefore lock. You arnt allowed to do game vs game threads on these boards.

The actual system mechanic for DE isn't revolutionary, you're right. But it's revolutionary in the sense that it completely changes the social experience of the MMO genre. I've never experienced so much co-operation with random people in the open world so much in my life; this itself is what made the game feel "alive" for me, it's much richer social experience than your traditional MMO.

I mean compare to say WoW, look at what happens when you're levelling; you barely see anyone, and even when you bump into people (say on opening days of an expansion), you'd want to either AVOID these random people or try to tag as many mobs and loot as many quest items as you can before they do: you're working AGAINST each other; it's completely terrible social experience.

In GW2, every where you go, you see people helping each other. A Dynamic event pops up, and you see 10-20+ people all hopping in; and the best of all, is that you WANT these people joining in, because they actually HELP speed up the process. When you are down, you'd see 2-3 people nearby all rushing to help you up, it's such a great experience.

This should be the new standard social experience for any MMO moving forward, because a lot of people (me included) will have a hard time transitioning back to a static tag-the-mob levelling system after experiencing what's in GW2.

The actual system mechanic for DE isn't revolutionary, you're right. But it's revolutionary in the sense that it completely changes the social experience of the MMO genre. I've never experienced so much co-operation with random people in the open world so much in my life; this itself is what made the game feel "alive" for me, it's much richer social experience than your traditional MMO.

On the one hand, it's definitely really cool to have swathes of people around you while you complete objectives, on the other hand they rarely ever say a word to you. I'm wary to call that "social" ;P

No roles is to me one of the biggest fails of this game because it reduces the options you have, I mean in WoW you have dps/healer/tank AND hybrid whilst in GW2 you only have hybrids. Can anybody explain to me how that is an improvement?

I would ask why it would need to be an improvement so much as a different style. Open and closed class systems are not better/worse than each other. They are simply different systems.

No roles is to me one of the biggest fails of this game because it reduces the options you have, I mean in WoW you have dps/healer/tank AND hybrid whilst in GW2 you only have hybrids. Can anybody explain to me how that is an improvement?

Doesn't reduce our options at all. Don't know what led you to think that. A glass cannon Staff Elementalist is very different from a defensively-focused Daggers Elementalist. Even a glass cannon Daggers is different from glass cannon Staff, as both play very differently and have different skills at their disposal.

Last edited by DrakeWurrum; 2012-09-01 at 11:23 PM.

I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

On the one hand, it's definitely really cool to have swathes of people around you while you complete objectives, on the other hand they rarely ever say a word to you. I'm wary to call that "social" ;P

It's definitely not PERFECT, but it's a first giant step in the right direction that no other MMOs have went (at least none that I'm aware of). I've never experienced anything like it in an MMO, so like I said, it should definitely be a standard that new MMOs should be building upon; I'm really having a hard time seeing how I'm gonna enjoy MoP or other new MMO's levelling after experiencing what's in GW2.

I was one of those who jumped to GW without knowing anything about it. no betas no GW1. I only read the lore to get a picture of what's going on. I've fallen to it and i've never found myself kiling stuff randomly. everything you do connects with the events of the zone you are in, you just need to read and not skip story mode.
I guess you just have to like the setting to immerse yourself.

so why not just have quests with a ! and some story text

idk, like wow?

really its dumb to see "QUESTING IS DIFFERENT FROM WOW THATS WHY ITS SUPER SICK AWESOME" and then say "yea but you need to read the quests in order to understand the lore"

imo the game is a huge grind, you just dont notice it because its a new game.

i remember when i first played wow when WPL was the hardest zone (level 55 cap): i made an ud warlock and, if anyone remembers, the bulwark had a bug where you could get the cauldron WPL quest. now, i'm a level 7 warlock trying to kill level 55 casters and i get my arse handed to me: this was fun and new and exciting (and when i was 14 i didnt understand what bug in a game was, i thought people were referring to the critters..). however now? the game is a huge grind. that's what an MMO is.

On the one hand, it's definitely really cool to have swathes of people around you while you complete objectives, on the other hand they rarely ever say a word to you. I'm wary to call that "social" ;P

I rarely socialized with people in 5-mans or even raids to begin with, outside of people in my guild. It's not going to be any different in this game.

---------- Post added 2012-09-01 at 06:31 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Cranberries

really its dumb to see "QUESTING IS DIFFERENT FROM WOW THATS WHY ITS SUPER SICK AWESOME" and then say "yea but you need to read the quests in order to understand the lore"

=\ That uh... doesn't translate. Even if you're going around and talking to people to get a better picture of the logical/lore reasons behind performing tasks, it's still different from WoW questing.

Even Renown Hearts are different. They are obviously very similar to standard quests, but they've still got big differences. For instance, you get a laundry list of tasks that all contribute to completion. Instead of just "This quest wants you to get 10 bear asses," the heart task will be more like "We need some bear asses, and you need to set out some traps for the bears, and you also need to kill off poachers that are snatching our bears, and if you see any diseased bears give them this medicine" - you don't have to do a specific amount of all four, you can do any combination of those four, and you've done the job. You could never lay a hand on any bear asses and still complete it.

Last edited by DrakeWurrum; 2012-09-01 at 11:32 PM.

I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

It's definitely not PERFECT, but it's a first giant step in the right direction that no other MMOs have went (at least none that I'm aware of). I've never experienced anything like it in an MMO, so like I said, it should definitely be a standard that new MMOs should be building upon; I'm really having a hard time seeing how I'm gonna enjoy MoP or other new MMO's levelling after experiencing what's in GW2.

Sort of emergent play/non grouping was seen in Rift, Warhammer and L2 iirc.

The "leap" so to speak is not in open world laissez faire for GW2 but the branching public quest system. Whereas previous games had their public quests & objective sharing relatively static on the map or on a limited timer.

There is evolution in GW2's over world but you are likely misplacing where it is at and to what degree.

I rarely socialized with people in 5-mans or even raids to begin with, outside of people in my guild. It's not going to be any different in this game.

---------- Post added 2012-09-01 at 06:31 PM ----------

=\ That uh... doesn't translate. Even if you're going around and talking to people to get a better picture of the logical/lore reasons behind performing tasks, it's still different from WoW questing.

Even Renown Hearts are different. They are obviously very similar to standard quests, but they've still got big differences. For instance, you get a laundry list of tasks that all contribute to completion. Instead of just "This quest wants you to get 10 bear asses," the heart task will be more like "We need some bear asses, and you need to set out some traps for the bears, and you also need to kill off poachers that are snatching our bears, and if you see any diseased bears give them this medicine" - you don't have to do a specific amount of all four, you can do any combination of those four, and you've done the job. You could never lay a hand on any bear asses and still complete it.

no cuz those quests which say "go and save x, defend us from y or fix z" arent a variety. you can do those quests just by doing 1 of the options listed. lets say a quest has 4 methods of filling up the bar, a better approach would be:
feed w - 25%
defend us from x - 25%
save y - 25%
fix z - 25%

thats variety, and a difference: atm all you're doing is 1 thing. most of the time all im doing is killing the mobs around an area when i see i've activated a heart. it's a mindless grind, more so because the gear you get from karma vendors (as a thief) is bloody useless lol and the gear drops you get from any group events remind me of the terrible gearing system in d3 - you're given -ANYTHING- with -ANY- stats on: that loot system is terrible.

seriously, another gripe i have is why the hell does this game have a +healing stat? its useless on near every class. auto attacking and healing myself with 20 hp when i have 4k is a total waste, i'd rather have +20 power, +20 condition or more preferably +20 precision.

the game is a grind, nothing has changed from my perspective: worsened because the gear you get is absolutely terrible.

no cuz those quests which say "go and save x, defend us from y or fix z" arent a variety. you can do those quests just by doing 1 of the options listed.

That's my point, and I consider that an advantage with this system. You don't have to do any one of them, you just do what you feel like doing from that list. You're not forced to get 10 bear asses if you don't want to. You can instead kill off poachers, if you like that better. Maybe you help out some diseased bears along the way, what does it matter?

Last edited by DrakeWurrum; 2012-09-01 at 11:39 PM.

I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

my point was that people have been saying the questing has been "REVOLUTONISED" and is apparently on par with the advancements made by the romans, but when you talk about lore people tell you to read the "heart" [quest] givers and surrounding peoples, as well as scouts: to this i say, what is the difference then between a heart and a ! in WoW.

At least the ! quest in WoW is meaingful and i'll get an upgrade lol

edit: im level 43 and i've managed to find just 3 daggers and 2 swords in all of the mobs i've killed + checking karma vendors. that's how terrible the looting system + arrangement of pre/suffix + stat allocations are. the weapons i have are crafted.

Try some of the jumping puzzles, those are really fun. Do the meta event in Queensdale-in the swamp. The Shadow Behemoth. It was epic! It's like a 40-man raid boss, in the middle of a swamp. You get a huge chest of goodies at the end, too. Try WvW and other PvP. Just trying to make helpful suggestions.

Those are actually good suggestions. I'm not entirely happy with gw2, but the one advise I would give to anyone looking to avoid the feeling of grinding is to mix up their play. Don't just stick to one thing and forget about everything else.

---------- Post added 2012-09-01 at 06:50 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Cranberries

its still a grind though?

my point was that people have been saying the questing has been "REVOLUTONISED" and is apparently on par with the advancements made by the romans, but when you talk about lore people tell you to read the "heart" [quest] givers and surrounding peoples, as well as scouts: to this i say, what is the difference then between a heart and a ! in WoW.

At least the ! quest in WoW is meaingful and i'll get an upgrade lol

edit: im level 43 and i've managed to find just 3 daggers and 2 swords in all of the mobs i've killed + checking karma vendors. that's how terrible the looting system + arrangement of pre/suffix + stat allocations are. the weapons i have are crafted.

You're right. After having played the game since beta and early release, when someone uses the words gw2 and revolutionary in the same sentence I know they are talking out their ass. I have had the same issues finding decent loot it does seem like the best way to go is to craft it.

FWIW, the starting areas don't give you a good feel for how the world events work in later areas. They seem simplified and stripped of consequences in about 2/3 of the starting areas at least.

It's especially important to remember that these lower-level zones are meant for lower-level players. Yes, there's downscaling, but they're still meant for people who are new to the game, or else just aren't skilled at all.

Things get better and more intense as you get to higher-level content.

---------- Post added 2012-09-01 at 06:52 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Cranberries

its still a grind though?

So what? I never said it wasn't a grind, I just said it was a better system that was still different from quests.

You're aware that when WoW first launched, it's only real competitor being EQ, everybody was hyped as fuck about it, going "AMGHERD THERE'S NO GRIND HERE!"

The thing is that Arena Net has improved how the grind is "hidden" to an extent. MMORPGs, period, are about grind. That's their design. A lot of games are, in fact, even outside the genre. If you don't care for grinds, then you probably don't care for MMORPGs.

Even raiding is a grind, over in WoW, yet tons of people enjoy it anyways.

If all you're going to do is try to simplify these systems as much as possible until you can explain how it works with a simple no-nonsense sentence, then you're going to see everything in life as all being the same, and being worthless. =\

Last edited by DrakeWurrum; 2012-09-01 at 11:54 PM.

I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

Stop comparing every game to WoW, and you'll be one step closer to enjoying life.

I see people making the same mistake over and over. Comparing every freaking game out there with WoW. WoW is WoW, other games aren't WoW. Rift tried to be WoW, SWTOR was buggy WoW in space. Aion was WoW with wings. GW2 is WoW with no mounts. Etc etc etc.

Seriously, did WoW spoil players so much they need to compare everything to it? Do you go around comparing every meal you eat to McDonalds as well? "Oh, the steak was great, but would be better if it was minced, in a bun, with cheese, lettuce, and large fries on the side!"

What I profoundly remember from GW1 are Invincimonks and suddenly 250 years later (GW2) there are no monks ))

No roles is to me one of the biggest fails of this game because it reduces the options you have, I mean in WoW you have dps/healer/tank AND hybrid whilst in GW2 you only have hybrids. Can anybody explain to me how that is an improvement?

When I first started playing WoW, I started off as DPS(Rogue) and after reaching higher levels I started immersing myself into other roles such as tanking and healing and they offer a complete different experience.