Father Richard John Neuhaus speculated (shortly after Benedict the See of Peter) that Benedict would issue his own missal. I secretly hoped that the delays in getting a new English translation was tolerated because they were going to scrap the 2002 MR, but I’ve since given up on this. There has been enough tinkering with the missal for the last 50 years. We need to let organic development… develop.

I’m pretty sure I’ll be stuck with hootenanny Masses for the rest of my life. But my kids have a better chance of being able to walk into any Catholic church and seeing a glimpse of Heaven instead of “us”. That’s enough for me.

“If the Novus Ordo was thrust upon us suddenly why can’t it be revised (or removed) just the same?”

This is where our virtues as conservatives work against us. We don’t do sudden change, knowing how disastrous the results can be, and it’s my understanding that this is the essential reason the Holy Father is moving so slowly and leading by example regarding these things. If B16/the Vatican/the Curia did move quickly and decisively, many would be (wrongly) hurt, pout, and walk out the church doors forever — and away from the Sacrament.

You have every right to insist that every Sunday there is one Mass within driving distance that has no music, and one church that has traditional chant.

The current status quo of music that varies so far from music as the Church documents easily and clearly outline it to be is not only deplorable, it also fails to reach the diversity it supposedly is to reach.

Write your Bishop, now. And frequently. Be polite. Be firm. Then write your Catholic paper. Do not demand, just ask.

On Eagles Wings is fine only as long as you can choose to sing it or not.

Are you the Noel Jones from St. John Neumann in Knoxville? If so, I attended there right as you were beginning to shift the musical selections, but, alas, we had to move. How did the plan work out? If ever I am in Knoxville I look forward to attending Mass in the new church.

I dont think there is any reason to be conservative just for the sake of it. If the ordinary form needs a renewal, there is no reason to make the process slow. Beeing a traditional catholic includes beeing radical in some cases and conservative in others, as long as it is for the best for the souls of the faithful and the Church. That is my opinion.

That would be very good news, but, as you know, it is better to build a reform of the reform “brick by brick”. We want long-lasting reforms, and those need to be made not in a couple of years. I agree with Ireneus

Again, all this could be easily solved by getting rid of the Novus Ordo and permitting the Gregorian (ExtraOrdinary) Rite in the vernacular. This continued propping up of the Novus ordo, its millions of reforms and options is plain nonsense.

Pope Benedict XVI made it known that “it is clearly seen that the new Missal will certainly remain the ordinary Form of the Roman Rite, not only on account of the juridical norms, but also because of the actual situation of the communities of the faithful.”

Some conservatives dream of a “reform-of-the-reform” Missal. That is fine. However, the Pope made it clear that the new Missal will remain in place.

The reality is that the majority of bishops, priests and laymen don’t have any use for the Traditional Mass…don’t want any part of said Mass. The main reason for the laity’s rejection of the Traditional Mass lies in our Churchmen’s anti-Traditional Mass mindset.

As long as the majority of bishops and priests think little of the Traditional Mass, then the majority of laity will follow the lead of bishops and priests.

Decades from now, we’ll be fortunate if each diocese has perhaps one dedicated Traditional Mass parish and a handful of Traditional Masses scattered among the remaining parishes.

The only event that may alter the above would be the regularization of the SSPX.

If granted freedom to do so, the SSPX would establish Traditional Masses here and there that, to some extent, would force bishops and priests to be a bit more generous in allowing “Ordinary Form” parishes to offer perhaps one Traditional Mass per Sunday.

Even at that, “the new Missal will certainly remain the ordinary Form of the Roman Rite.”

We must first be subjected to the “reform of the reform” attempt to salvage the Novus Ordo.

The current conservative spin is that despite what Popes Paul VI and John Paul II (and I suppose John Paul I) and bishops for decades, the Novus Ordo Mass is not the Mass that was supposed to have emerged from Vatican II. The new New Mass will, of course, fail to renew the Latin Church.

Allow for about 100 years to pass before Rome final returns to the Traditional Roman Mass.

I believe I can foresee what this “futuristic Missal” would look like…

“2025” Missale Romanum:
I. Order of Mass for the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite
II. Order of Mass for the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite
III. Proper of Seasons, Proper of Saints, Commons, Votive Masses, etc.

The Mass propers of the Ordinary and Extraordinary forms would be revised and brought together into one (antiphons, the three “presidential” prayers, etc.). The calendar would also be unified. So the Proper of the Mass would be one, and there would be two Orders of Mass to choose from.

Greater emphasis would be placed on the option of choosing between the Responsorial Psalm and the Gradual, as well as the Verse Before the Gospel and the Tract. Currently in the Ordinary Form, the Gradual and Tract are only allowed if sung.

I am not sure how to reconcile the Lectionary. No matter what you would be stepping on everyone’s toes. Perhaps a new four-year cycle… Readings for “Year D” could be from the 1962 Missal?

Yeah, right. They can’t even get the revised English implemented or even get six silly candles back on the altar, and there’s a chance of a new Missal? I suppose just as much as there is a chance of Pelosi becoming a nun.

=====

Johnny Domer wrote:

“That would be one BIG missal…geez louise…”

)(

Probably would be a nice one to have provided there would be some real and actual changes to the Novus Ordo including the new English revisions. Without any it would be a great waste of paper to me.

=====

Iraneus wrote:

“This is where our virtues as conservatives work against us. We don’t do sudden change, knowing how disastrous the results can be, and it’s my understanding that this is the essential reason the Holy Father is moving so slowly and leading by example regarding these things. If B16/the Vatican/the Curia did move quickly and decisively, many would be (wrongly) hurt, pout, and walk out the church doors forever—and away from the Sacrament.”

)(

Good logic. Should the IRS find they have been over-estimating your tax, they shouldn’t adjust it right away. They don’t want hurt feelings on the part of those whose taxes really are as high as yours. Yup, as a conservative, you just keep on paying it and suffer through it.

=====

Daniel wrote:

“Decades from now, we’ll be fortunate if each diocese has perhaps one dedicated Traditional Mass parish and a handful of Traditional Masses scattered among the remaining parishes.”

“…We must first be subjected to the “reform of the reform” attempt to salvage the Novus Ordo.

The current conservative spin is that despite what Popes Paul VI and John Paul II (and I suppose John Paul I) and bishops for decades, the Novus Ordo Mass is not the Mass that was supposed to have emerged from Vatican II. The new New Mass will, of course, fail to renew the Latin Church.

Allow for about 100 years to pass before Rome final returns to the Traditional Roman Mass.

)(

Gee, what a dismal future. The Church can help it along if She’s serious enough about it. **Bawhahaha** You’re right. What was I thinking?

In this same regard, abortion will always be legal because of the mindset of the leaders and legislators of this country. Really, if anyone thinks abortion will become illegal or greatly limited by way of legislation or court action, he’s sadly deluded.

“Allow for about 100 years to pass before Rome final returns to the Traditional Roman Mass.”

I don’t agree. Lack of vocations makes the current liturgy unsustainable. I know of an entire Irish diocese (Ossary) that hasn’t had a vocation in 15 years. A diocese! The hierarchy in Europe when confronted with such statistics just put their hands over their eyes and content themselves that everything’s okay.

Having the 1965 Roman Missal Order of the Mass as an option,with the current calendar and lectionary would go a long way in “reforming the reform” without blasting out of the water the legitimate reforms after Vatican II. By this I mean a vernacular Mass which I believe the majority of people appreciate with the rubrics and gestures of the 1965 Missal. In other words there could be two forms of the Ordinary Form of the Mass (A and B for example). There is no reason why the rubrics of the current Mass could be brought into line with the 1965 missal, i.e. all the genuflections during the Canon, ad orientem, etc. Rite A could be the current missal with its vernacular revisions for Low Masses and simple sung Masses and Rite B could be the 1965 Missal with revised vernacular for High and Solemn High Masses. I really believe that what people appreciated most have Vatican II was the vernacular, not the “dumbing down” of rubrics, art and ceremony, not to mention the destruction of traditional altars and churches. If the only changes made after Vatican I had been the allowance of the vernacular and some minor rubrical changes as the 1965 missal has, as well as the lectionary, I believe we would be more unified as the Latin Rite today than we are. There would be more contentment. The Extraordinary Form of the Mass from the 1962 missal would still remain a legitimate option with all the Latin/Greek/ Hebrew retained.

It would be wise to wait a bit longer before doing any tinkering with either the Traditional Latin Mass or the Novus Ordo. How much change can the ordinary Catholic in the pew take? Haven’t Catholics of all stripes been subjected to enough liturgical upheaval over the last 40 years? The Liturgy is supposed to be stable, but all we’ve seen is change, change, change.

In any event, before the Novus Ordo attendees will be ready to accept any real liturgical reform, more softening of the battlefield has to occur. We need more time for the Traditional Latin Mass to make its influence known throughout the Church. We need more time for younger priests to take over for the aging hippies. We need a little more time for those involved with the Novus Ordo to continue wiping out the bizarre excesses of the Novus Ordo on their own. This is happening. We need a little more time for the Novus Ordo crowd to re-familiarize themselves with traditional liturgical things like Gregorian chant. This is happening in workshops around the country.

Sure, the Holy Father could impose a New Missal tomorrow, but we’ve seen how rapid liturgical changes reap nothing but sorrow and confusion. We need some more time and patience. I’ve personally witnessed diehard Novus Ordo attendees start to come around to the Traditional Latin Mass over the last year or so. This slow and steady approach is working. Catholics are again becoming comfortable with the idea of traditional Liturgy.

“40 years I endured that generation…I said they are a people whose hearts go astray, and they do not know my ways” (Ps 95)

Sigh.

40 more years in the desert…”Come, Lord Jesus!”

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An outstanding opportunity to get into Latin and New Testament Greek

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A bit more food for thought…

“Only one sin is nowadays severely punished: the attentive observance of the traditions of our Fathers. For that reason the good ones are thrown out of their places and brought to the desert.”

- Basil of Caesarea - ep. 243

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Food For Thought

“The legalization of the termination of pregnancy is none other than the authorization given to an adult, with the approval of an established law, to take the lives of children yet unborn and thus incapable of defending themselves. It is difficult to imagine a more unjust situation, and it is very difficult to speak of obsession in a matter such as this, where we are dealing with a fundamental imperative of every good conscience — the defense of the right to life of an innocent and defenseless human being.”

- St. John Paul II

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Should the US Bishops have us return to obligatory "meatless Fridays" during the whole year and not just during Lent?

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For your consideration…

"One of the most dangerous errors is that civilization is automatically bound to increase and spread. The lesson of history is the opposite; civilization is a rarity, attained with difficulty and easily lost. The normal state of humanity is barbarism, just as the normal surface of the planet is salt water. Land looms large in our imagination and civilization in history books, only because sea and savagery are to us less interesting."

- C.S. Lewis

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More food for thought:

“I expect to die in bed, my successor will die in prison and his successor will die a martyr in the public square. His successor will pick up the shards of a ruined society and slowly help rebuild civilization, as the church has done so often in human history.”

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2. Those who identify themselves with the people, have confidence in them, cherish and consider them as the most honest and safe, although not the most wise depositary of the public interests."

Additional Food For Thought

“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”

- Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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Food For Thought

“Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition to put moral chains upon their own appetites. . . . Society cannot exist unless a controlling power upon will and appetite be placed somewhere; and the less of it there is within, the more there must be without. It is ordained in the eternal constitution of things, that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters.”

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