Your take is very interesting. I studied the methodology of the old-schoolers and took it all so very seriously. Lib had already begun his time traveling by then. It took me awhile to break out of the monotony and really get digging. But, I was always guarded over it. I do not know why. It was kind of like my not wanting to put too much about DOOM out there...I thought it would destroy things later. I cant say I dig any of the collabs with the new era, either. You are right--it is a hard thing to keep a lid over.

I dont think that copyright issues are the problem here so much as the creativity aspect being taken away. I've looked at the stuff that Lib has done and been like cool I like how he flipped it--but I enjoyed searching for similar samples. Out of all of the producers I think seeing him up close made the most sense to me. Something really clicked after that experience. The sounds he creates are just audibly perfect--I bet he has a hard time when he is not in control of what he is listening to.

I see his genius, whereas I may not see exactly see it in his brother's project--I have a finite grasp of that kind of stuff and that kind of musical progression.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion of how to do this. I had trouble with other guys who called my stuff too nerdy and obscure, but I enjoyed their tried-and-true 808 sound just the same.

I feel you, man. Yeah, your right there's definitely no right or wrong way to do this. I respect producers wanting to keep certain things hushed, I guess I just don't have any trade secrets anymore. Of course, if I was doing this for a living it might be different, but it's a 15 year old hobby that won't shake off. I enjoy hearing others opinions on sampling out of pure curiousity. I have a ton of musician friends but none that make beats. So, I never get to shoot-the-shit about this kind of stuff irl.

Thats cool Hungryman. I spend a lot of alone time as well. I work with artists but they do not get it. I listen to their poor producers and shake my head. I invested too much in my sound and pickiness with crate-digs and what I sample. I had a falling out with a partner who was dope in his own way, but could not get anything not accepted. I too like to discuss--its part of the art, Sir. Don't sell yourself short with regard to trade secrets or go tos. I am certain you underrate your personal style.

tbh imo, i think it's very selfish of producers to withhold their respective trade secrets from the rest of the beat-making consensus we have going throughout the world...i mean, i get it, i totally understand where it's coming from. but it's not the late '80s anymore, it's not this mysterious new thing where PM Dawn is going into a Brooklyn shop and walking out with a stack of vinyl the size of Yao Ming.

a lot of the "classic" sources have been tapped out and overused, so us new cats have to be way more creative with our sampling. also, labels have wised up to copyright laws and technology has gotten way better, so for dudes to still sit around and act like we can still do things exactly like the old-school gen and still somehow make it new are just fooling themselves...

..and don't get me wrong, i take this shit more serious than a heart attack...i've studied the OG's. the real fucking OG's, the Marley Marls and Pete Rocks and Steinski's of their day...which in turn inspired Madlib's current style which we all view for some reason as a guy doing this thing that no one's ever done before. he may be flipping shit in interesting ways...but this shit is officially middle-aged now (40th anniversary last month), it's not new. stop living in the past and start pioneering new sounds. check out the LA Beat scene, it's still thriving after 7+ years...FlyLo alone consistently pushes the boundaries of this genre and all it's little subgenres under the hip-hop umbrella,

sadly i don't see very many trying to do the same. time and time again i'll hit up the beat battles and hear 19/20 cats trying to just do one straight, recognizable loop off the track repeating ad nauseum over "boom, bap, boom boom bap" for 3, 4, sometimes 5 whole minutes with barely any switch-ups or variety whatsoever. this shit will be recognized as fine art within our lifetimes, so y'all have gotta start treating it as such; you think they'd exhibit a painting in a gallery that was just some haphazard still life of a sandwich painted with two colors? (well maybe, but that's besides the point...)

i just think people need to start thinking WAY the fuck more creatively than what i typically hear from the standard beat maker of today. the only way we can all progress is if the grumpy curmudgeons of the '90s era step aside, show some young cats their tricks and let the new school try to improve upon those techniques. that's how we entered into that little thing known as the golden era back in the early '90s, who's to say we're not due for another one? teach people, don't hoard your samples like some meth cook stockpiling weapons in Nebraska, that's not doing anyone good. okay, rant over.

Nah we are approaching it differently. Maybe you think that there is nothing dope about PM Dawn coming out with an assload of records much to the dismay of Q, Lord F. and Kid Capri, who are jealous they did not pick up them joints--but maybe you missed out on that. Not sure you can make some of the dopeness without these kinds of circumstances no matter how much you attempt to disassemble the flower that they created. Soul runs a little deeper than what your MPC can create or what files you can grab.

I do not think that the new generation can do anything with their broke ass Nintendo beats and breaks, quite frankly. There is something much deeper called style. Yeah, the shit is old, but it is still inspired.

I never shied away from the LA scene, btw though I considered myself schooled in everything NY. The LA scene was consistently better than anything else that I was hearing. I get what you are saying with the monotony and tried to shy away from it. Us 90's guys keep it 100. You are never going to take that out of us. You will never know what a scene is--unless you heard all of the records pushed by virtual unknowns during that period. Fucking saved me during the early 2000s when everything was utter shit commercially. The reading about Lib was great and on the low during those times. I appreciated hearing about Lootpack. I wonder what Primo thought of Dilla? He was so lucky he was not getting slain by him endlessly.

You cannot just dismiss the early nineties. You are getting an education on these boards about the prog/acid rock comps and how influential they were=I will never be able to flip it as well as Lib--but I sure understand it. Lib shows how to still use the typical nineties drumbeat.

I strayed from music as I noticed everyone and their mother thieving in the various ways imaginable. If you have not dug you will never know. These people will continue to sell their souls to make wiener ho music. You cannot stop it. But if every jagoff and their mother continues to talk about the latest project by so or so--well then it will all be so water-downed. One of the sos has already begun to show their limitations after many years. If I see one more jag taking liberties with one of these so and so's ill instrumentals and voicing over their youtube freestyle I may shit all of my pants. I actually took time to purchase certain Stones Throw LPs that were purely instrumentals. Instead, go defecate your sorry bars over some K.West crap. So crabass I will remain.

uh...so, yeah. that rant wasn't directed at you, it was the general nostalgic mindset that everyone seems to have with the '90s as if it was is and always will be the only good era in music history. i take offense to the fact that you think i don't respect '90s hip-hop, as i'm incredibly well-versed with a lot of the releases from the time. i also think you've proven yourself to be the exact kinda person that i'm talking about by not only dissing Kanye West (who got his START in the late '90s as an underground artist doing shit the same exact way Madlib was), but insinuating that i don't support ST, i'm ignorant to hip-hop pre-2000's, and most of all that i spit "sorry bars" over Madvillainy beats i stole off of youtube. if you weren't so full of yourself and took the time to do some research you'd find that i'm actually starting to gain some respect on these boards specifically because i "keep it 100"...the diff is that i try to evolve the styles of past legends, and not box myself in as someone who will only produce one style my entire career. you shouted out Dilla in respects to him being better than Primo, but then you take the exact reason why Dilla was more revolutionary than Primo is and use it as a sleight to the new emerging beat scene, which is directly connected to Dilla and specifically Donuts. just because new cats are trying different things doesn't mean they aren't still digging or sampling...i sample just as much as any Bomb Squad track, i just mask my samples and do way more shit to the source material to 1) evade legal issues, and 2) create a more unique soundscape than just grabbing the amen break and tossing up a Joe Pass guitar loop on top of it and calling it 'good'. if you truly kept it 100 then you'd be welcoming these new cats and not admonishing them for being influenced by a style that you created which was influenced by another style and so on...the only dude that can truly claim "they stole my shit, they're biters!" is Kool Herc and maybe Grandmaster Flash. other than that, it's all just the effects of evolution in music.

[...] i also think you've proven yourself to be the exact kinda person that i'm talking about by not only dissing Kanye West (who got his START in the late '90s as an underground artist doing shit the same exact way Madlib was), but insinuating that i don't support ST, i'm ignorant to hip-hop pre-2000's, and most of all that i spit "sorry bars" over Madvillainy beats i stole off of youtube. if you weren't so full of yourself and took the time to do some research you'd find that i'm actually starting to gain some respect on these boards specifically because i "keep it 100"...the diff is that i try to evolve the styles of past legends, and not box myself in as someone who will only produce one style my entire career. you shouted out Dilla in respects to him being better than Primo, but then you take the exact reason why Dilla was more revolutionary than Primo is and use it as a sleight to the new emerging beat scene, which is directly connected to Dilla and specifically Donuts. just because new cats are trying different things doesn't mean they aren't still digging or sampling...i sample just as much as any Bomb Squad track, i just mask my samples and do way more shit to the source material to 1) evade legal issues, and 2) create a more unique soundscape than just grabbing the amen break and tossing up a Joe Pass guitar loop on top of it and calling it 'good'. if you truly kept it 100 then you'd be welcoming these new cats and not admonishing them for being influenced by a style that you created which was influenced by another style and so on...the only dude that can truly claim "they stole my shit, they're biters!" is Kool Herc and maybe Grandmaster Flash. other than that, it's all just the effects of evolution in music.

I think you caught the wrong drift of what I was getting at: I did not at all direct my post to you personally. If you are however a portion of the group that is early twenties making beats then I am sorry that I attacked your group. I am certain that you are well schooled on all of the so-called masterful producers--you have provided ample evidence that you are; after a while the conversation gets convoluted. But, what I was referencing were some specific acts during the nineties that never had their time to shine on stage. There is a ton of music put out by these acts with that "sonic" feel (I despise that term). For me, it is so different to hear that kind of music when played against the outlay of all other types of hip-hop. There are DJs in some parts that only play those records. The kind of artists that you would have heard on only certain NY radio stations back then. What kind of culture do you think DOOM came from, for instance? It is not worth getting into because these German cats will soon be jerking off with one hand and doing random searches for these old radio shows.

Not going to get into a war over Kanye and his "aptitude," but he was hand-picked to succeed. In other words, if there are cats out there that have the drive, absurd talent and desire to break through--well good luck. There is a select few who will make it--and on his rise--it was obvious that little of it was on his merits. Go back and listen to his collective and see if he had any real talent. Listen to him rhyme and beg to schedule a root canal. I witnessed his come-uppance and none of it was very legit in my opinion. He was lucky to find that niche where he spoke freely about being a man of many contradictions from a very milquetoast perspective--whereas now he is all scumbag label whore. He was able to get a bit of publicity locally as someone to look out for by the same writers who gave you a nudge about Lootpack and the dudes on RSayers. He was a back-packer and there was a scene for that locally--but he showed his true colors, thereafter. Then he popped up fucking with ATCQ and maybe got all loosy goosy with a weirdo Q--who knows what went down there...We can continue the conversation later--but I guess what you have to realize is that you will have to compromise your integrity and only a few will ever make it--and if you think this thing will sustain itself--it won't. But I think you are smart enough to realize that.

If you followed some of the cats' lives after their careers and realize what they are now doing to make ends meet--you may have a change of heart about your feelings or reverence about the 90's. Unless you know something about the business and how it is run--you will easily dismiss old artists as not being innovative enough, instead praising the producers behind whatever these kids are listening to today.

Do you know how many independent labels are actually successful? Do you know how many now are legitimately "independent." I'd venture to say--not many. You have to dance with the devil if you are going to be a beat-maker of any note.

Do you believe that even the "revolutionary" independent artists are independent and that their music and sound is not pre-fabricated?

Anyway, I have probably exceeded the scope of what we are talking about.

I am cool with new beats and beatmakers--I just think that taste, style and judgement should not be ruled out.

tbh imo, i think it's very selfish of producers to withhold their respective trade secrets from the rest of the beat-making consensus we have going throughout the world...i mean, i get it, i totally understand where it's coming from. but it's not the late '80s anymore, it's not this mysterious new thing where PM Dawn is going into a Brooklyn shop and walking out with a stack of vinyl the size of Yao Ming.

a lot of the "classic" sources have been tapped out and overused, so us new cats have to be way more creative with our sampling. also, labels have wised up to copyright laws and technology has gotten way better, so for dudes to still sit around and act like we can still do things exactly like the old-school gen and still somehow make it new are just fooling themselves...

..and don't get me wrong, i take this shit more serious than a heart attack...i've studied the OG's. the real fucking OG's, the Marley Marls and Pete Rocks and Steinski's of their day...which in turn inspired Madlib's current style which we all view for some reason as a guy doing this thing that no one's ever done before. he may be flipping shit in interesting ways...but this shit is officially middle-aged now (40th anniversary last month), it's not new. stop living in the past and start pioneering new sounds. check out the LA Beat scene, it's still thriving after 7+ years...FlyLo alone consistently pushes the boundaries of this genre and all it's little subgenres under the hip-hop umbrella,

sadly i don't see very many trying to do the same. time and time again i'll hit up the beat battles and hear 19/20 cats trying to just do one straight, recognizable loop off the track repeating ad nauseum over "boom, bap, boom boom bap" for 3, 4, sometimes 5 whole minutes with barely any switch-ups or variety whatsoever. this shit will be recognized as fine art within our lifetimes, so y'all have gotta start treating it as such; you think they'd exhibit a painting in a gallery that was just some haphazard still life of a sandwich painted with two colors? (well maybe, but that's besides the point...)

i just think people need to start thinking WAY the fuck more creatively than what i typically hear from the standard beat maker of today. the only way we can all progress is if the grumpy curmudgeons of the '90s era step aside, show some young cats their tricks and let the new school try to improve upon those techniques. that's how we entered into that little thing known as the golden era back in the early '90s, who's to say we're not due for another one? teach people, don't hoard your samples like some meth cook stockpiling weapons in Nebraska, that's not doing anyone good. okay, rant over.

If some dude wants to keep it old school, what's it to you?

I don't feel anybody owes it to anybody to tell them what they are sampling or what their techniques are. I have experimented with many styles of beat making and I don't consider myself one of the cats you are talking about but, my whole thing when it comes to making music is to do what you like. If it's old school hip-hop, wonky, trap, or dubstep do you, no matter if some cat thinks it's old or played out. If you can't bump it, what's the point.

I totally respect and dig the LA Beat scene but not every cat wanna make beats like that. I rather a cat be sincere with his music rather than "original".

I am cool with new beats and beatmakers--I just think that taste, style and judgement should not be ruled out.

I rather a cat be sincere with his music rather than "original".

fair enough, seems like we've all found some common ground on here .

i'm not saying don't do what you want, in fact 'do what you want' is exactly what i'm saying haha. i'm just sick of the hip-hop elitism that seems to come up a lot with dudes saying the '90s was the end all, be all of music and that there'll never be another good hip-hop track again lol...i grew up in that era--literally, i was 7 1/2 when it ended--so i'll always have love + respect for any of those legends in the game for paving the way for us. but some of my favorite albums of all time came out post-1990s...you couldn't have had an album like Madvillainy back then, the chips had to fall just right for that shit to work.

you don't have to follow trends--although i do think musicians should learn to adapt as time goes on, just like Miles Davis did--but as long as you're genuinely sincere about your music, and not lazy when it comes to producing (meaning a lot of dudes from that era are great, but they also need to realize we're not in the days anymore where you can just loop up a straight drum break with a straight piano loop and say it's 'done', its gotten a lot more complex than that since then) you'll never go wrong.

Don't take this as an affront, as you have indicated that you are a smart lad and well schooled in this music thing and you can't help the fact that you have a great attitude and good head on your shoulders.

But, yo, as an older guy here is my thought on what you said above--and I'd hope that there were older guys participating on here:

Wait--you know about 90s hip hop but you were 7 come time for the close of the decade? And you have a significant point to make...

But, you know all about Kanye. I get it now--yes, you were lucky to find Madvillainy at the time in your life that you did. You smoked your first spliff just recently and are just learning about the ways of the world. How is it that you know about Kanye and what he was on in the late nineties? He was a step away from fucking with low grade filipino groups.

I misspoke when I stated I listened to "The LA Beat Scene" Fuck that--no way. I did not even know who Flying Lotus was other than he was fucking with Madlib: Madlib gave him a shout in a recent interview. That scene sounds pretty whack to me. But, hey to each their own. I do not fuck with much of that new "hip hop" and cannot be bothered to. I am sure there are others here that agree with me, considering I have seen some topics here discussing the merits of tother kinds of music.

That DOOM is fucking with some dumb guys that wear anti-christ regalia is weird enough. That does not mean that I am fucking with them. I've come around to the idea of fucking with people that make pure garbage just for the the thrills of such a thing.

It's really a pass the buck world. Suck some dick and sign a major deal. How many of these guys would you say is actually a musician?

The producer angle is interesting to me--I am here to see guys who are like me--but put out their shit in a dope way. I am finding those guys--I am used to a certain musical progression. Just listen to a DJ's mix sometime of music he likes and how he plays those songs and you should know what kind of producer he can make. Granted not everyone can fuck with synths appropriately-but you get an idea of where he is coming from. That stuff made while on the shitter of various sounds does not really fill that void for older generations.

That trap/dub is terrible. I did not get it when it arrived from England.

There is a reason why people want to keep the 90s alive. It is a guarantee that some kind of reality will remain imprinted in this bullshit--that some white musician somewhere may be able to make a living producing this shit--not some fat arab sucka with no talent. Forgive me for being frank.

The industry is whack. Always was and always will be. But, maybe that is something you well know about since you are so far along in your years.

I have heard some really great beats on here and it keeps me coming back to see if there is a young kid out there that I can fuck with or have one of my acts fuck with. You'd be surprised about how I make my decisions.

I am uncertain as to how one can make a living doing this thing: the going rate for a dope beat isnt that much.

You should know what you are in it for. Next time you are at an EDM festival look around at the faces of everyone...they will have no idea what they are doing there--but those same people will somehow be pushing units.

i think you're misinterpreting the ideals of a scene you aren't familiar with, you even admit it yourself. Flying Lotus pretty much started what's known as the LA beat scene, and he just picked up where Dilla left off. if Madlib fucks with him, then clearly he must be worth something, right? real hip-hop never died, it just evolved...i think you should seriously consider coming out of the cave and getting some fresh air, a lot's happened since the closing of the '90s era.

this scene that i'm talking about is extremely sublimated and fractured into numerous subgenres; it's not all trap and dubstep...in fact, that's not even what i'm talking about lol, EDM has nothing to do with hip-hop. it seems like you equate success with terrible music, which is weird because then i'm not sure what you're trying to do with your music if not get successful, even if its on your own terms. there's a lotta dudes under the radar that are still living well, the major labels are slowly starting to crumble in their own monotony. but i find it funny that you attack Odd Future for their image, when in reality they're not doing anything different from Brotha Lynch Hung, R.A. the Rugged Man and especially the Gravediggaz from back in (you guessed it) the '90s. its a lot more commercialized, and i don't really like their music personally-- but i don't hate on people that do lol.

Don't take this as an affront, as you have indicated that you are a smart lad and well schooled in this music thing and you can't help the fact that you have a great attitude and good head on your shoulders.

But, yo, as an older guy here is my thought on what you said above--and I'd hope that there were older guys participating on here:

Wait--you know about 90s hip hop but you were 7 come time for the close of the decade? And you have a significant point to make...

But, you know all about Kanye. I get it now--yes, you were lucky to find Madvillainy at the time in your life that you did. You smoked your first spliff just recently and are just learning about the ways of the world. How is it that you know about Kanye and what he was on in the late nineties? He was a step away from fucking with low grade filipino groups.

I misspoke when I stated I listened to "The LA Beat Scene" Fuck that--no way. I did not even know who Flying Lotus was other than he was fucking with Madlib: Madlib gave him a shout in a recent interview. That scene sounds pretty whack to me. But, hey to each their own. I do not fuck with much of that new "hip hop" and cannot be bothered to. I am sure there are others here that agree with me, considering I have seen some topics here discussing the merits of tother kinds of music.

That DOOM is fucking with some dumb guys that wear anti-christ regalia is weird enough. That does not mean that I am fucking with them. I've come around to the idea of fucking with people that make pure garbage just for the the thrills of such a thing.

It's really a pass the buck world. Suck some dick and sign a major deal. How many of these guys would you say is actually a musician?

The producer angle is interesting to me--I am here to see guys who are like me--but put out their shit in a dope way. I am finding those guys--I am used to a certain musical progression. Just listen to a DJ's mix sometime of music he likes and how he plays those songs and you should know what kind of producer he can make. Granted not everyone can fuck with synths appropriately-but you get an idea of where he is coming from. That stuff made while on the shitter of various sounds does not really fill that void for older generations.

That trap/dub is terrible. I did not get it when it arrived from England.

There is a reason why people want to keep the 90s alive. It is a guarantee that some kind of reality will remain imprinted in this bullshit--that some white musician somewhere may be able to make a living producing this shit--not some fat arab sucka with no talent. Forgive me for being frank.

The industry is whack. Always was and always will be. But, maybe that is something you well know about since you are so far along in your years.

I have heard some really great beats on here and it keeps me coming back to see if there is a young kid out there that I can fuck with or have one of my acts fuck with. You'd be surprised about how I make my decisions.

I am uncertain as to how one can make a living doing this thing: the going rate for a dope beat isnt that much.

You should know what you are in it for. Next time you are at an EDM festival look around at the faces of everyone...they will have no idea what they are doing there--but those same people will somehow be pushing units.

I'm just gonna take this with a big table spoon of salt, because as you stated you don't listen to these cats and are ignorant to a lot of the new talent out these days and aren't willing to learn which is cool, but don't go around bashing dudes because you are too disinterested to learn about them and their music.

And who cares how old he was in the 90s, I wasn't even thought of when most the music I enjoy came out in the 60s and 70s.

Alright. I got it. Maybe I should listen to more video game samples sometime. Look I am open to what you guys say--but, hey I have my hard edge. I still like to fuck with brothas that are into the same shit. As for the acts you enumerated, I was only on the Gravediggaz tip. That was a decent project and balanced by P.Paul. Yes, rza got his science on it for sure. But are you going to compare some dude named Hadji Beats (sp) or any of those lames with Gods? Those no name rappers were Gods compared to WOCTKA Or Wokka Flokka or whateva--you catch my drift. Thanks for outlining your positions though. I can respect it.

So what do you guys think about sampling, then? Is it important. I could not live without it. But, it is hard in this day and age not to clear that shit. We already mentioned the JDILLA fiasco--I read an interview with JROCC talking about it. It gets harder and harder to hide those samples. I am smiling when we see certain guys be not clever enough.

I'm not saying you need to listen to video game sampled beats, I'm not a big fan of that neither, but don't go around bashing cats just because your not into it. For some music lovers who grew up with video games the music has become a part of their culture and become ingrained in their minds as a part of their childhood, just like when I hear Al Green it brings up memories of family cook outs. I also have fun memories of playing sonic 2 for hours but I personally wouldn't sample it.

But anyway, I'm a big fan of sampling, the best hip-hop always seems to be sampled based, but I'm often put off by all the suing and ish like that. But the way I see it, if I put something out it probably won't get that big, mainly because I wouldn't let it, so I'm not to worried.

I'm not a huge fan of cats trying to hide samples, I mean it can be fun, but it seem like a bunch dudes just be messing up good samples.

As for the samples--what if you were on the brink of pushing units? Could you imagine having that come back to bite you?

Yes you have to think that some people have it coming. As an artist you have to respect it. Not going to call anybody out--but, well you know the names that come up frequently. There is a difference between sampling and outright thievery.

Its a fine line I guess. Sampling even a soundbite can be sketchy. The lawsuits will keep coming.

Yeah, that's the risk I would be taking. But the amount of money they would be able to get out of me probably wouldn't even cover their lawyer fees.

I never been too much of a heavy sampler, If I take a sixteen bar loop I will probably only use a couple of beats from the loop, but I can imagine I will still get sued if someone found the sample so I don't know.

I plan to get some more gear soon and one of the things that has been weighing on my mind is whether I should continue sampling or should I buy instruments and forgo sampling altogether.

Lets throw this into another direction, how can anyone own sound, can you touch it, can you smell it, I know we can feel it, but think about it, I may well make an album out of beatles samples record a battle rap to Paul McCartney, and send it to him, then give it away free, I ain't gonna get touched basically, people like him deserve it, a so called musician that makes things hard for all communities, just for the sake of cash flow, if everyone made free shit handed it out, the industry would soon collapse, art should not be based around making money, or sueing people because they like something and want to use it. Everything needs to go back to being independent, real independence!!

But it is a piece of art. Everyone should get sued and yes you can own a piece of sound.

Everyone should get sued for their borrowed music. It's not their own.

Come on your more intelligent than that now really explain how you can own sound, I'll give you a little start, it's energy. And it is stolen not borrowed, not like I'm going to give it back ha ha!! and isn't the idea generally now to make your own instead of loops.

Well ODK-when you have an acute ear you can tell that a sound is from another composition. For this music thing to be considered a business you have to put a premium on sound.

Mmm, not really, to me the business side is mainstream, what we do ain't mainstream, you can also make normal recordings sound like samples as well, don't forget what Portishead did. The corporations ruin art in all forms by the premium attached to it and a need to make as much money as they can. So I have to pay for a burst of energy moving through the air ? this has never felt right, and doesn't sound right.

Yo ODK. I forgot about Portishead. Didnt someone bite them? You have your own troubles over there, entirely.

Ive never done anything mainstream. My ish has always been otherworldly--but its the new age my man.

No rules. Commercial appeal pays--inde doesnt.

Its about getting paid in the 99...I mean whatever year we are in.

You have to let go of some of your integrity to get some play...my big record exec boyfriend taught me that. His name is sweet Bubba.

I am joking of course, but, hey obtaining some commercial appeal is not a bad thing. How long do you think that the underground will sustain itself without some cornball invading it and giving it AIDS.

Ha ha the underground will always self sustain itself, because there are Hiphop Guardians that steer the kids back on to the proper knowledge that the mainstream tries to brush under the carpet. I get what you mean about invasion, it's like this LA beat scene, some of it is just wack, but everyone is jumping on that sound at the moment, I still blame early Anticon for it all, and Flylo gets the credit, or DIllas Donuts, pretty sure Cloudead, Greenthink, was the start of the Avant Garde side of Hiphop, as for gaming sounds, they're about 14 years behind, we killed those sounds in the drum n bass genre, Ed Solo, Brocky, Photek, all played out tunes with nintendo samples, and now everyone thinks it's new and undiscovered. What makes me laugh is you go into any record shop and you will not find this style under Hiphop, it's all in the dance section.

Ok, the me of eight years ago would agree with you. But the dude who spent all his time in a lab and stayed away from any tv and the rest is now gone. I woke up to a messed up scene. I am not going to hate on you for staying underground, Ill have all the love for what you do, no doubt. I just do not want to see you hungry.

Funny what you say about the drum and bass and nintendo--I used to spend money on breaks and samples. Worst shits I ever purchased. But I enjoyed the d and b quality sound. I lurked in those sections you speak about. I have a London and certain US feel. I consider myself that old school so to speak.

Anyway, I have found the conversation here engaging--even if most are younger than me. I decided that music is going to be a big part of what I do. If its not me, I will peddle these lames into the industry like cattle. Its not my music--its theirs. At least I can get them good backing tracks and find them some dope production--I work too slow on my own projects anyway. I was better when I was blunted I guess. Or so I thought.