Why I became the REAL Pro-Choice...Pro-Eugenics

Not to get off track, but in one of your earlier posts you mentioned soilent green. I thought you were making fun of me, but then I thought about how
to make this a valuabe process. Not so much soilent green, but we could harvest the orgrans out of the people after they are terminated or right
before.. however it works best.

Soylent Green was an example of how it could be if we loose our Humanity, our Souls. When we become so cold and callous that the life of another has
no more meaning to us.

A Secularist Society is leap in that direction because it substitutes logic for Humanity. We have progressed to the level we have as a Species due to
our ability to move beyond our animalistic instincts and thoughts and create a society that functions for the common good.

Secularism leads to a me-me-me, I-I-I society where we reach the point the only thing that matters is our own selfish wants.

What you propose must not only be illegal, it must result in serious penalties and should be scorned by all. Many in our Species are sociopaths who
are mainly controlled by these laws. It was no accident Hitler had such a large following in his beliefs. Prior to him only the law and rules kept
them under control and under him it was suddenly not only legal to act out but desired by the authority in charge.

If we adopt Eugenics as a society we will follow the same path we always do and it will be used for evil, not good.

Well I respectfully disagree. The pro-choice movement hasnt gotten out of control and it is a sub group of eugenics. Nobody is forcing anyone to
abort.

That is the beauty of it. If you dont force someone and let them decide they want to, and convince them that it is in their best interests, then they
will willingly volunteer. It is just a great feeling I get when I can convince some teenage girl that it is really best for her to get that abortion.
I only wish they would let me go with them so I could hold their hand through the process.

Is that really true? How many millions have died to date? How do you know the inventor of free energy or the cure for cancer was not among the
children slaughtered in the name of convenience?

Abortion is really about convenience is it not? They argue it is about choice but is it really? Is not the truth it is about a desire to have
unprotected sex without consequence? Do you really believe any pregnancy is accidental in this age where children understand sex at a younger and
younger age?

The same applies to your proposed elimination of the handicapped to ease their suffering. Most deaths would be a knee jerk reaction to their emotions
on that day and not the reality of their lives.

Anything the Government can abuse, it will abuse. In the end they will take over the power to decide who lives and who dies. It is a given that will
happen.

I am pro-Choice. I apply the words of many scriptures worldwide, the least of which not being the words purportedly to be from G-d in the Talmud,
wherein it is said that the soul enters the body upon first breath.

Therefore, I do not see abortion as "eugenics," but as a removal of a viable vessel for a soul to enter.

However, once a soul has filled a vessel, it falls to no one but that soul to choose their own death (yes, I support suicide).

For once you claim you have the right to choose another's death, where do you draw the line? Who gets to decide?

What if one faction wants to get rid of you and another loves you and wants to keep you? What say do YOU have if other think you are worthless?

No... It is a slippery slope, handing the power of life and death to some over others. And if we all worked for abundance, no one would be a
drain.

Well, the OP is fully familiar with my book, showing the path to abundance, so I'll just mention that it is linked in my sig for any who have not
heard of my book yet.

Aha, you are being too serious for this thread. The OP is making a joke here.

I know many people who are Pro-Choice (and it is about the right to choose what you do with your own body), and none of them would ever agree to any
of the BS that the OP writes. The OP is playing the fool who is obviously an Anti-Choice person (pro-life is really a misnomer, as it is all about
enforcing their own morals on everyone else), who is trying to make Pro Choice people sound bizarre and inhumane.

The bottom line is this, one either believes that an individual has the god-given right to decide the fate of their own body, or that once in society,
an individual has subrogated that specific right to the overall prevailing mores of the society. If a person decides for whatever reason that they can
not continue with a pregnancy, then that decision should be between them and their conscience. Its a tough decision, and one that is rarely made
without deep regret and sadness. Yet it is nearly always the right decision for that person. Actually if you really think about it in existential
terms, it is sort of a self-actualizing decision. Having an abortion is the right decision when that decision is made; and going through with a
pregnancy is the right decision when that decision is made.

I used to be against abortion, until I dated a marvelous woman who worked women's health issues and rights, and had my eyes opened. I had no idea of
the sheer numbers of women that were being forced to bear children as a result of incest, rape, imprisionment, etc. But when so many men in even the
most developed countries still consider women as a sort of marital chattel, then what can one really expect? Its just that I didn't know.

Now, whenever I hear one of the neo-con VIPs slamming the concept of choice I can only smirk at the thought of how quick they would change their
thoughts if one of their own children came up pregnant with a child from some nice black boy, chicano, or asian boy from the bad side of town. And I
woulld add, I would really love to see a study of the number of adopted black children in home of neocon white families?... Well I guess there is
Angelina Jolie and Madonna... oh that's right they're liberals - never mind.

Well I dont agree with you that I am an ... but I wont tell the mods because I hate to get busted when I slip up too.

I hate to tell you this but if you would have read through the entire thread there are other pro-choice people who do agree with me.

I dont see what is wrong with me wanting to expand pro-choice past a persons body and to extend it to their homes. Do you know how much stress some
people are under because of certain family members? I am just trying to show some compassion to those folks as well.

I guess your idea of where CHOICE ends is the right one and we shouldnt even be able to discuss anything that would conflict with your view of how the
world should be. Typical liberal thinking at its best.

Aha, you are being too serious for this thread. The OP is making a joke here.

Heh. Seemed he was being serious. [shrug] I am sad to hear that his pro-choice "stance" was BS.

I know many people who are Pro-Choice (and it is about the right to choose what you do with your own body), and none of them would ever agree
to any of the BS that the OP writes. The OP is an ass who is obviously an Anti-Choice person (pro-life is really a misnomer, as it is all about
enforcing their own morals on everyone else), who is trying to make Pro Choice people sound bizarre and inhumane.

I never refer to them as "pro-life." I agree. That is BS. I always refer to them as anti-choice. But you have to admit that my take on things
addresses the idiocy of his attempt...

The bottom line is this, one either believes that an individual has the god-given right to decide the fate of their own body, or that once in
society, an individual has subrogated that specific right to the overall prevailing mores of the society.

Agreed.

If a person decides for whatever reason that they can not continue with a pregnancy, then that decision should be between them and their
conscience. Its a tough decision, and one that is rarely made without deep regret and sadness.

I had an abortion. No regrets. No sadness. But then, before I found out I was pregnant, I was both X-rayed (pelvic - I had a broken pelvis) and had
taken a course of tetracycline. Both are notorious for causing severe birth defects. I did not want to find out what the results of THAT pregnancy
would be!

Yet it is nearly always the right decision for that person. Actually if you really think about it in existential terms, it is sort of a
self-actualizing decision. Having an abortion is the right decision when that decision is made; and going through with a pregnancy is the right
decision when that decision is made.

Agreed again.

I used to be against abortion, until I dated a marvelous woman who worked women's health issues and rights, and had my eyes opened. I had no
idea of the sheer numbers of women that were being forced to bear children as a result of incest, rape, imprisionment, etc. But when so many men in
even the most developed countries still consider women as a sort of marital chattel, then what can one really expect? Its just that I didn't
know.

And... Statistically, sociopaths and psychopaths are highly likely to have experienced abuse and neglect as children, having been unwanted. Forcing
them to first breath is likely a severe drain on society in the end. MUCH more likely to have a Hitler than a Gandhi.

Now, whenever I hear one of the neo-con VIPs slamming the concept of choice I can only smirk at the thought of how quick they would change
their thoughts if one of their own children came up pregnant with a child from some nice black boy, chicano, or asian boy from the bad side of town.
And I woulld add, I would really love to see a study of the number of adopted black children in home of neocon white families?... Well I guess there
is Angelina Jolie and Madonna... oh that's right they're liberals - never mind.

And, in fact, though white babies get adopted fairly readily, unless they are "defective," there are loads of minority babies that never are, and
who grow up with the parent that doesn't want them, or are shuttled from one foster home to another, very often receiving abuse in that system.

Originally posted by justsomeboreddude
I dont see what is wrong with me wanting to expand pro-choice past a persons body and to extend it to their homes. Do you know how much stress some
people are under because of certain family members? I am just trying to show some compassion to those folks as well.

And none for the prospective victim. And who, as I asked above, has the right to choose, once a vessel is ensouled? What of conflicts? Would you
happily accept this if we decided we didn't want you around? Can we make this choice relative to you?

I guess your idea of where CHOICE ends is the right one and we shouldnt even be able to discuss anything that would conflict with your view of
how the world should be.

Indeed it is the right idea. While the vessel is in the womb of the female, she has the right over her body - even the God of the Christians says the
soul enters upon first breath. (The G-d of the Hebrews in the Talmud.) It is also written in many other scriptures, worldwide.

Typical liberal thinking at its best.

Heh. Make it a partisan thing. A divide and conquer thing. I am neither "liberal" nor "conservative." I merely use the many scriptures as my
guide in this issue, and walk my own line.

Good catch on the impassioned but ill-suited use of a term, I have corrected it to something more appropriate that is in the same vane.

Come on, I do admire your mischevous nature on this one. But you can't really be serious. For instance you do know that most of what you have
suggested was already adopted by the authorities once, and that the rest of the world rejected that philosophy, right? Of course you do.

Well I actually consider myself a Libertarian, although not necessarily Libertarian Party. I am pretty sure that I am right in the middle politically
as most of my liberal friends consider me a conservative, while my conservative friends consider me a liberal.

Do I consider my views the only permissible ones? No, not really. In fact, I can be persuaded to change my opinion or viewpoint based on the strength
of arguments, its facts, and evidence. Like I said, I really was against abortion up until I met this one person, and had an entire world opened to me
that I had no idea existed. Problems like this didn't exist in 'my world' before that. Before that, the abortion debate was just an intellectual
exercise.

I didn't mean to imply that everyone that gets an abortion regrets it. What I meant to convey is that in my experience, that every woman who makes
such decision does it with great consideration and under circimstances that are not flippant or cavalier. Although I am sure there are some women that
unfortunately do use abortion as their main means of birth control, these women can not be considered 'normal'. The vast bulk of women I have heard
about had serious issues impacting that decision and made their decision based on what they thought best.

By the way, I am totally in with you on your take as to when a soul enters the body. If not, how could someone explain the purpose of a soul when it
is estimated that at least one third of all pregnancies end up as spontaneous abortions. First breath, first life. I think the ancient holy men/women
had it right.

So we are supposed to take your word for it that humans even have a soul?

MY word?!? Geez. Lessee.... A great many scriptures in the world are MINE!?! *I* wrote them?!? Hell no. Take the God of the Bible. Or any other
scripture you wish.

And we are also to take your interpretation of some book that this soul only enters the body on first breath?

Hpow else would YOU take the statement, "The soul enters the body upon first breath?" How would YOU interpret that, I ask.

So you are the authority on where life begins and ends?

R. O. F. L. I guess you DO think I wrote the Talmud! Hahahahaha!

So its alright for you to have an abortion because it was inconvenient but its not alright for me to propose that we extend the same rights you
used to justify your actions to others?

Only if the others have not taken a first breath, yeah. And one seldom opts for an abortion for mere "convenience." More like severe hardship,
loathing of the father, rape, inability to support the resulting child should it come to first breath, X-rayed and tetracyclined, and other much more
severe issues than mere "convenience."

Really, I am fighting a desire to break the T&C's here.

And if my family wanted to have me terminated then I guess I would have no choice.

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