I LOVED Karl Rahner's "The Trinity." What an excellent book. It took 900 years to rip Aquinas's scholasticism to shreds, but it was worth the wait. I don't see how you can read that book and believe in Thomistic trinitarian theology anymore.

Other Rahner books I have not read though and I keep hearing they are liberal. Are they?

I LOVED Karl Rahner's "The Trinity." What an excellent book. It took 900 years to rip Aquinas's scholasticism to shreds, but it was worth the wait. I don't see how you can read that book and believe in Thomistic trinitarian theology anymore.

Other Rahner books I have not read though and I keep hearing they are liberal. Are they?

Anastasios

Are you kidding me anastasios!!! Please say yes Sir, the priest was a Jesuit who went on escapades with a german woman, who is now a "feminist activist". This lady wants female priests!!! What type of priest was he if he hng around such people! and accpeted them! not telling them to converyt

Are you kidding me anastasios!!! Please say yes Sir, the priest was a Jesuit who went on escapades with a german woman, who is now a "feminist activist". This lady wants female priests!!! What type of priest was he if he hng around such people! and accpeted them! not telling them to converyt

I don't believe in burning any books. I love to read books by people that I disagree with on many subjects. It's the best way to be able to tear their arguments apart in a good debate. Reading books with which we disagree teaches us HOW our opponents think. If we burn all their books, how can be ever be properly prepared to debate them?

Me too... I would only advocate burning books if they were really really badly written, which there are quite a few out there. Burning books because of the ideas is a frightening concept, as every book will have someone wanting to burn it, no matter how good the contents are.

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Now where were we? Oh yeah - the important thing was I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t have white onions because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...

Wow, pretty close to what I was thinking also accept I don't know what the last book was about. I would also throw in anything written by Michael Moore and Karl Marx

I totally agree on the watchtower stuff and book of mormon. If those two cults were never around that would have saved me many many hours of past debates with these people which was basically a big waste of time and energy.

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"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world."--Mere Christianity

I wanna burn all those cheap and inexpensive romance novels they sell at cash registers, the really thick ones where the woman on the cover is enraptured by and embracing the large, beefy Fabio look-alike, and the title is in big gold letters, and the entire thing is raised from the paper so that even the blind can feel Fabio, and take him home for only $2.95. I want to burn them because they suck.

« Last Edit: December 09, 2004, 05:46:47 PM by Mor Ephrem »

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"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Mor no longer posts on OCNet. He follows threads, posts his responses daily, occasionally starts threads, and responds to private messages when and as he wants. But he really isn't around anymore.

Me too... I would only advocate burning books if they were really really badly written, which there are quite a few out there. Burning books because of the ideas is a frightening concept, as every book will have someone wanting to burn it, no matter how good the contents are.

but what if the ideas lead you to hell??? Didn't St.Athanasius punch Arius in the face, for spereading his heresies?

but what if the ideas lead you to hell??? Didn't St.Athanasius punch Arius in the face, for spereading his heresies?

For starters, legend has it that it was St. Nicholas who hit Arius.

A much better way to combat evil ideas is to combat them with words, not flames. As Christians, we are called to not be slaves to our passions, and that includes burning books. We should be able to explain why ideas are bad and point people towards Christ so each person can accept Him of his or her own free will.

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"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen

I was really into Ayn Rand in late high school...a lot of it made sense to me...i was a bit confused about a lot of things tho (still am! ) but yea, then i sort of reevaluated my faith in college, and the next time i thought of Rand, the thought was: oh man, she doesn't fly with me anymore - it's hard enough as it is to take the focus off of the self, but to have her encouraging it made me realize that my Rand days are over...

i still dont think it should be burned tho...i mean, my Rand phase was very important in my journey to the Church...generally, i dont think anything should be burned, for the reasons many have already stated...i mean, you need the opposite view in order for your view to even exist...many truths are reactionary to what is false and are only comprehensible AS truth when considered in relation to its counter-argument...

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Books that I have disagreed with but wouldn't burn...

Dancing AloneThe Book of MormonThe DaVinci CodeAnything by Dobson

Phos Zoe: what didn't you agree with in "Dancing Alone"? my priest has loaned it to me, and i plan to read it (among other books) during my winter break coming up...i will read it regardless, but i'm just curious

A much better way to combat evil ideas is to combat them with words, not flames. As Christians, we are called to not be slaves to our passions, and that includes burning books. We should be able to explain why ideas are bad and point people towards Christ so each person can accept Him of his or her own free will.

A much better way to combat evil ideas is to combat them with words, not flames. As Christians, we are called to not be slaves to our passions, and that includes burning books. We should be able to explain why ideas are bad and point people towards Christ so each person can accept Him of his or her[no more feminist revionism of the english language!] own free will.

Well sometimes books need to be destroyed. If we prove to one person what he says is wrong and he believes, the book that taught him this is left alone and put back so more persons can fall into this error and the refutation of the heresy goes on and on in a continous cycle. Why let ths heresy grow, when it can be destroyed. Don't underestimate the power of books.

Our Lady is called the Exterminatrix of Heresies by us Catholics. She is not called the "fight heresies,refute them to one person, and then let the source of the heresy exist so as to contaminate others-ix"

If the books of the ancient heretics were still around, maybe we could thus better understand the reaction of the Orthodox and get a better historical perspective in some cases.

I say monasteries - but taking into fact that most books pre1800 are now decomposed I hardly believe that it would be possible to get these books. I also believe that the knowledge the Church has given to us through the ages, in Her teaching wisdom is sufficient enough but I do see what your getting at. Sadly though, what you say can be stretched out to say "We need to read the pseudoGospels to find out about what Mary Magdalene and JEsus did." This could result in a major insult to the Christ, and as we all know He must be glorified by all,not abhorred,hated and ridiculed

Hmm...seems like most people are taking this a bit more seriously than I did...perhaps I should clarify that I was just joking...except perhaps about the Dr. Laura books. ;-) But seriously, you never know how a certain book, or anything for that matter, is going to influence someone. There is very little that is wholly false, and the closer something is to being so, the more likely it is to repel the reader, perhaps leading them in an indirect way to the truth. As a personal example, the writings of Nietzsche played a role in bringing me back to faith after a time away.

« Last Edit: December 09, 2004, 10:21:26 PM by penelope »

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Let me love myself only if I love thee and do all things for thy sake.

And who decides *what* book should be burnt? What if someone doesn't like a book that *you* do? I don't trust humans to have that kind of power. The temptation to Sin is too strong.

Burning books is evil. I see that Theodore beat me to citing "Farenheit 451" A book that should be read more often. I can also recommend Nat Hentoff's "The Day They Came to Arrest the Book" a young adult novel about an attempt to get "Huckleberry Finn" out of a school. (Something that has happened in real life)

And who is to say that such "cleansing"/burning would stop at "heresies"? Why stop there? What would stop someonewho had that power from getting rid of volumes that he/she didn't happen to like or approve of in other areas?

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Why let ths heresy grow, when it can be destroyed.

What guarantee is there that it will be gone permanently with one burned book? Arianism has popped up centuries after Arius (JW's for example) How are you going to keep an idea from developing in a Human mind?

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Don't underestimate the power of books.

I assure you, I don't. Neither do I underestimate the lure of Power to a human being. "Who will guard the guardians?"

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Our Lady is called the Exterminatrix of Heresies by us Catholics.

Perhaps one could leave things to her and keep the human hands off the match boxes.

Ebor

"Fahrenheit four five one is the temperature at which book paper catches fire and starts to burn." Ray Bradbury

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"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

I wanna burn all those cheap and inexpensive romance novels they sell at cash registers, the really thick ones where the woman on the cover is enraptured by and embracing the large, beefy Fabio look-alike, and the title is in big gold letters, and the entire thing is raised from the paper so that even the blind can feel Fabio, and take him home for only $2.95. I want to burn them because they suck.

Not my cuppa, but will you then let the ladies who like those books burn one that you like, but they don't? 8-)

Ebor

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"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

Eh, there are some good bits of writing in The Fountainpen errr head 8-) It's getting to them through the manifesto that can be hard. I have to confess that I've never made it through Atlas Slogged and let's not get started on Anthem

Ebor

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"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

I say monasteries - but taking into fact that most books pre1800 are now decomposed I hardly believe that it would be possible to get these books.

<raised eyebrow glyph> Oh? There are still books from centuries ago that survive with care. And things written on parchment or vellum can last a very long time, and that was the common medium for writting for quite a while until paper making was easier (I am speaking here of Europe and the Middle East here. The making of paper in many elaborate forms was highly developed in Japan over 1000 years ago, for example)

Just a suggestion: People who advocate burning books that they don't like can be objects of ridicule and abhorrance to others who may extend those feelings to that which the burners proclaim...such as Jesus.

Ebor "So Many Books, So Little Time"

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"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

Eh, there are some good bits of writing in The Fountainpen errr head 8-) It's getting to them through the manifesto that can be hard. I have to confess that I've never made it through Atlas Slogged and let's not get started on Anthem

Ebor

I have read Fountainhead and Anthem...Anthem was fun just as a futuristic, extremist sorta thing...i like tales like that, about "what if's?" regarding our future as a race, etc...basically for intellectual reasons more than anything else (I rarely believe in the ideologies that give birth to such depictions..I just like to think )...Fountainhead was the one I read and was very into (picked it up to try to win some scholarship money - the Ayn Rand Institute has essay contests if u read the books and write essays on em...I didnt win, alas)...I own Atlas Shrugged, but havent read it, and dont know if I will ever get the time or desire to actually pick it up and try: I've discovered a lot more reading that I'm far more interested in, since I bought it, and I very well may never get to it. Oh well.

I'm not gunna burn it tho, caz I paid for it! lol i'll prolly sell it or donate it one day

Yes, that was a perk, and the reason I made it my second Rand read (after Fountainhead) instead of Atlas Shrugged ...it also turned out to be my last Rand read...not because of Anthem specifically, but just because of where I suddenly found myself on my spiritual journey when I thought about her again, mid-college, and realized I had lost interest.

I have read Fountainhead and Anthem...Anthem was fun just as a futuristic, extremist sorta thing...i like tales like that, about "what if's?" regarding our future as a race, etc...basically for intellectual reasons more than anything else (I rarely believe in the ideologies that give birth to such depictions..I just like to think

I read "Anthem" for the future dystopia/SF angle. It was the part near the end where the protagonist is naming the woman and coming across like Howard Roarke without the buildings that it got me squint-eyed. *He* can be a ruler and master of his destiny but she is a sort of "yes-woman" to his enlightened state. It's been over a decade maybe 2 since I read it. But I think I have it somewhere on the shelves along with the 2 Major Tomes.

If you like speculations of future societies/dystopias/utopias I can recommend some good ones.

Ebor

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"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

Come to SVS library and I can show you plenty of books pre-1800 that are still in good shape. The paper in fact is much sturdier than what was being used until recently. Tony

Yep. The paper then wasn't the acid kind that's so common now (recall that top drawer books note that they're printed on "acid free paper". I speculate that a higher rag content also helped rather then straight wood pulp like in newsprint paper.

Ebor

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"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

If you like speculations of future societies/dystopias/utopias I can recommend some good ones.

This is the aspect of Sci-Fi that I am interested in...mostly my interests lie in Fantasy (vs. Sci-Fi), but the quasi-realistic future-speculating sorta sci-fi is something I am very into I would love some recommendations...my personal favorite thus far is The Time Machine by H.G. Wells...that blew my mind. I have yet to read 1984, but have it on my shelf and will get to it eventually I am sure.

Actually, that was a lie...my ACTUAL favorite is The Giver by Lois Lowrey...that's downright one of my favorite books (futuristic or otherwise)...and to complement it is the latest book Lowrey wrote as a companion to The Giver, called Gathering Blue, which is sort of another angle on a possible future for us, with the possibility that the world of The Giver might run simultaneously, if that makes sense. You hafta read it to get what I mean, but what I especially love about Gathering Blue is that the young protagonist is a girl I am very excited because Lowrey says she is planning to write a third to round out the trilogy-cluster that began with The Giver.

Yep. The paper then wasn't the acid kind that's so common now (recall that top drawer books note that they're printed on "acid free paper". I speculate that a higher rag content also helped rather then straight wood pulp like in newsprint paper.

Ebor

Dear Ebor,

Yes, we know have to provide our theses on acid-free paper as the paper with acid deteriorates.

Many of the older books' binding is in bad condition but the paper is still in reasonably good shape.

Tony

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Tómame como al tequila, de un golpe y sin pensarlo. - Ricardo Arjona

I'd be a fool to surrender when I know I can be a contender and if everbody's a sinner then everybody can be a winner ...I'll see you when yo