I'm sitting here watching ESPN Outside the Lines and the topic is what they refer to as the modern day "Mount Rushmore" of NBA Coaching: Phil Jackson, Pat Riley and Larry Brown.

The guests were Jack Ramsey, HOF coach of the 77 NBA Champion Blazers and current Miami Heat color commentator and Scoop Jackson of SLAM Magazine and ESPN.

Ramsey laid a bombshell of sorts by saying that he understands that Pat Riley will replace Stan Van Gundy as coach of the Miami Heat within the next week to ten days. Ramsey called the coaching change "imminent".

The show was discussing the styles and the coaching achivements of the three and discussed the current Larry Brown drama and Jackson returning to LA without a legit NBA Title contender.

Riley is discussed as still having the strong desire to coach - and since he is President of the Heat - he could very well make such a move as replacing Van Gundy.

Stan Van Gundy was Riley's lead assistsnt since Riley took the Heat job in 1995. He was named head coach in October 2003 when Riley suddenly resigned.

With the acquisition of Shaquille O'Neal and the drafting of All Star Dwayne Wade to the Heat, Riley is said to be anxious to return to the sidelines and lead the Heat to their first NBA Finals.

This has been rumoured for awhile, but for Ramsey (a Heat insider) and a respected NBA expert to reveal this may mean this story actually has legs.

The better the Heat did in the playoffs, the worse I felt Riley's chances were because it would make him look worse. With a hobled O'Neal and an injured Wade, the Heat were eliminated by Detroit in Game 7 of the Eastern Conference Finals.

Would Pat Riley be looked upon as anything better than a Phil Jackson by taking over this Heat team as they are on the verge of a championship run?? How would he look by throwing Stan Van Gundy, a loyal assistant and confidant under the bus after he led you back to respectability two years ago - and within one win from the finals last year??

If this indeed does happen - I would have officially lost all respect for Pat Riley.

If Riley felt he wanted to take over for the Heat, then fine. He should have done it earlier after their season ended. It would have given Van Gundy time to latch on somewhere else. But he's doing it now, when all of the good coaching gigs are fill.

With no commitment from Pat Riley -- and no emphatic, public denials -- speculation continues to mount that the team's president will take the reins from Stan Van Gundy and coach the Miami Heat next season.

"Pat Riley has indicated to Stan Van Gundy in reports I have received that he intends to return as coach of the Heat," ESPN analyst Dr. Jack Ramsay told the network on air Thursday. "I don't know where this leaves Stan Van Gundy, but I'm pretty certain that Riley will return as coach."

Ramsay, a Hall of Fame coach and a former TV analyst for the Heat, indicated the coaching change is expected in the next week or two.

"I haven't heard anything," Van Gundy told the Miami Herald for Friday's editions, declining further comment. Van Gundy, who has two years remaining on his contract, said recently he would work for the Heat only as their head coach.

Ramsay said he spoke with Riley during the NBA playoffs, and Riley indicated that he missed the rush of coaching. Although Shaquille O'Neal reportedly was unhappy at not getting the ball in Game 7 of the Eastern Conference finals against the Pistons, there has been no sign that Heat players have pushed for Van Gundy's ouster; in fact, according to the Herald, several players have privately expressed that Van Gundy remain coach.

In eight seasons as the Heat's coach, Riley's teams were 354-270 in the regular season and 18-25 in the playoffs. Riley won four championships with the Lakers and also coached the Knicks before joining the Heat in 1995.

Owner Micky Arison is not believed to have asked Riley to resume coaching the team, a high-ranking team official told the Herald.

Damnnnnnnnnnnn, talk about cold. I will not like Riley again if he does this.

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Win or lose this is a game -
You could let it pick your brain for weeks and months, just replay it over and over, won't do you any good at all. When someone loses a loved one and they do that it only brings forth anguish. I feel acceptance is sometimes the key, it happened, now you have to react to it. Giving up is not an option.

Riley is pulling a phil jackson right now.
when the Heat were losing he said he was done coaching, then Stan took over, had a bad start but ended very well, and turned things around in Miami.
and now he wants to be back, he's got to be kidding

I dont think Stan "Ron Jeremey" Van Gundy is any kind of special coach

Riley is 10X the coach he is IMO and has won at the highest levels of this league. I think Shaq respects Riley tons more too

Im suprised it hasnt happened earlier

No one is taking into account Riley's validity over Stan Van Gundy. Their track records don't compare. That one is an obviously better coach is not the arguement here.

Riley walked AWAY from this team during training camp in Oct 2003. He had just finished a campaign in which he went 25-57 (his worst record ever) and had two consecutive seasons in which the Heat did not qualify for the playoffs.

Van Gundy inherrited a team that no one (even WITH Wade who no one was talking about at this time) expected to do much of anything. They went 42-40 and won a playoff series for the first time since 2000. This season, with Wade and Shaq in tow, the Heat went 59-23 and advanced to the ECF for only the second time in franchise history. They were one win away from advancing to the NBA Finals.

Granted, Riley experienced his share of bad luck and bad personel moves during his time as coach of the Heat. The kidney ailment to Alonzo Mourning killed nearly two full seasons, and they remained unable to dramatically improve the team because they were stuck with no cap space due to bad contracts that Pat Riley approved(Eddie Jones, Brian Grant).

But now all of a sudden he has a change of heart?? First they are fortunate to draft Dwayne Wade and watch him develop into a star in his rookie year and become the leader of the team. Then he watches as the Lakers implode and the opportunity to acquire Shaquille O'Neal arises.

Suddenly the Heat have two superstars, some playoff savvy veterans, and some young energetic role players - and seemed poised to make a strong run at an NBA Championship - and now he wants the team back????

I'm sorry - but he CHOSE to walk away while the team was a mess - and now he wants to come back after the team has had a resurgence under a different coach??

I'm no huge fan of Stan Van Gundy - but that's bullsh!t IMO.

If Riley still burns to caoch so bad - why doesn't he choose to do it elsewhere?? The Miami Heat have a coach and he has done absolutely nothing to warrant getting fired.

Riley's greatness is past tense. He's been in NY and Miami and couldn't get the job done. But now that he's got Shaq and Wade, he's willing to fire his own former asst., the same one who saved Riley's a$$ when he up and quit without any warning, so he can get himself another ring.

This reeks of selfishness and greed and Pat Riley should not get a free pass for doing this because Kareem and Magic got him some rings 100 years ago. Good coach or not, this is a cheap thing to do.

No one is taking into account Riley's validity over Stan Van Gundy. Their track records don't compare. That one is an obviously better coach is not the arguement here.

Riley walked AWAY from this team during training camp in Oct 2003. He had just finished a campaign in which he went 25-57 (his worst record ever) and had two consecutive seasons in which the Heat did not qualify for the playoffs.

Van Gundy inherrited a team that no one (even WITH Wade who no one was talking about at this time) expected to do much of anything. They went 42-40 and won a playoff series for the first time since 2000. This season, with Wade and Shaq in tow, the Heat went 59-23 and advanced to the ECF for only the second time in franchise history. They were one win away from advancing to the NBA Finals.

Granted, Riley experienced his share of bad luck and bad personel moves during his time as coach of the Heat. The kidney ailment to Alonzo Mourning killed nearly two full seasons, and they remained unable to dramatically improve the team because they were stuck with no cap space due to bad contracts that Pat Riley approved(Eddie Jones, Brian Grant).

But now all of a sudden he has a change of heart?? First they are fortunate to draft Dwayne Wade and watch him develop into a star in his rookie year and become the leader of the team. Then he watches as the Lakers implode and the opportunity to acquire Shaquille O'Neal arises.

Suddenly the Heat have two superstars, some playoff savvy veterans, and some young energetic role players - and seemed poised to make a strong run at an NBA Championship - and now he wants the team back????

I'm sorry - but he CHOSE to walk away while the team was a mess - and now he wants to come back after the team has had a resurgence under a different coach??

I'm no huge fan of Stan Van Gundy - but that's bullsh!t IMO.

If Riley still burns to caoch so bad - why doesn't he choose to do it elsewhere?? The Miami Heat have a coach and he has done absolutely nothing to warrant getting fired.

I can't believe Riles would go all Gregg Popovich on Van Gundy like that.

The Spurs players (Avery Johnson, David Robinson) went to Pop in November asking that Bob Hill be relieved of his duties. This was before David broke his foot and missed the remainder of the season and before drafting Tim Duncan was even a remote possibility.

Like the first time Magic met with the Lakers' new coach, Mike Dunleavy, at a players association meeting back in 1990. Dunleavy sought out Magic for a pre-season confab, and as they strolled along the beach, he handed Johnson the playbook he planned to implement for the upcoming season. Magic proceeded to toss the playbook into the ocean, point to his head and say, "The playbook is in here."

duncan was a rookie,and the spurs were coming from a BAD BAD season.
Pop was not a spurs coach before, and hadn't quit the job with a messed up team
no comparison here fella

Quote:

Originally Posted by neurnaje

The Spurs players (Avery Johnson, David Robinson) went to Pop in November asking that Bob Hill be relieved of his duties. This was before David broke his foot and missed the remainder of the season and before drafting Tim Duncan was even a remote possibility.

I really hope this isn't true. There's no way Riley can't tell how he will be perceived in this situation. It makes no sense to me whatsoever, and I pray he reconsiders, for the sake of whatever legacy he has left.

It started with too much talk out of Pat Riley about missing coaching, too much longing, too much to believe the Miami Heat president could sit any longer in the shadows with Shaq on his side. Jeff Van Gundy forever feared this day would come for his older brother, Stan, and it looks like a matter of time now until Riley takes his old job back and makes himself the Heat coach.

"So many things about it," Riley said late last season to Dave Hyde of the Sun-Sentinel, when asked about what he missed about coaching. "I think the one thing that was best about it, through the good times, bad times, easy practices, hard practices, great wins, tough losses -- the best thing was, at the very end, there was a common thread that regardless of what happened there were three words: Bring it in.

"You'd end everything that way: Bring it in. Everyone would bring in hands together and everything was OK. It's what the game was about, the spirit of game. If you're upset, angry, played poorly, whatever, there always was that ritual that made it all worthwhile."

Bring it in, yes, but before the Heat do, Riley seems determined to push Stan Van Gundy out of the huddle. After talking louder and louder about missing his old job, and after the Heat lost Games 6 and 7 of the Eastern Conference Finals, Riley promised to take an even more "active participation" on the floor next season.

Riley talked so much, and now, with the speculation in South Florida gradually transforming to inevitability, there's something far more damning for Van Gundy out of his boss: Silence, in the form of half-hearted denials, such as the one Riley delivered through a team spokesman on Thursday: "Stan is our head coach. We don't plan on making a change."

It's over, and Van Gundy knows it. Riley has so severely damaged Van Gundy's credibility within the locker room, how can he even bring him back under these circumstances now? "Right now, I'm coach of the Miami Heat," Van Gundy said this week, as though it was a temp job.

Some suspected this would all play out in such a way once Riley traded for Shaquille O'Neal a year ago. And here it is, playing out in living color. Riley is close to taking back the sidelines, taking back the bright lights and the chance to win that NBA championship with Shaq and Dwyane Wade.

Riley needs to stop framing this as some noble return to his passion, and tell the truth. His ego could never stay in the background and let Van Gundy get the shot at bringing that championship parade to the shores of Biscayne Bay.

Suddenly, coaching the Heat is a glamour job again, and Riley's ego would never let him sit that out. If Riley will want to insist this was a hard choice based purely on the best chance for a championship, or finding the best coach for the job, ancient NBA history backs him. It's just that modern history doesn't. Across the past two seasons, almost no one in the league has coached better than Stan Van Gundy. I'll give you Larry Brown, but no one else.

What the Heat had was the rarest of strong management structures, under which the chain of command set everything in motion for a finely tuned winning machine. If this was truly about winning it all, Riley would've understood that all his Heat needed in the playoffs was to stay healthy, not a new coach.

The NBA is never about fair, but about what's right. Of course, it isn't fair that Van Gundy could lose his job. More than that, it isn't the right thing for the franchise. Yet, Riley will sell it, because there's no better salesman in the history of the league.

In his self-deprecating way, Van Gundy described the Heat coaching progression from Riley to himself: "Like going from Larry Bird to a CBA player." If that was true when Riley gave him a young, rudderless team on the eve of the 2003-04 season, a core of young players that would lose their first seven games of the year, it would no longer be the case at season's end when Van Gundy had completely changed the Heat's style and system on the fly, winning 42 regular-season games, beating the Hornets in the first round of the playoffs and taking the Pacers to an improbable seven-game struggle.

Yes, Shaq changed everything for the Heat last season, but even with him at half-speed in these playoffs, Van Gundy still had the Heat on the way to the NBA Finals. What stopped him was the injury to Wade. That's it. If Wade didn't go down, it was Spurs-Heat in the Finals and you wonder then if Riley would've had the stomach for what appears to be in motion now.

In the end, Riley will have the backing of Shaq, who always made sure to talk about coming to Miami to play for Riley, the president, instead of Van Gundy, the coach. Now, there's no turning back. Van Gundy is undermined in Miami. Riley has undercut him.

If Riley had just fired him a few weeks ago, Van Gundy could've been a candidate for one of the jobs open in the league. After 11 years of loyal service, Riley could've done him a favor, spared everyone this saga and let Van Gundy get on with his coaching career.

Stan Van Gundy will be a most wanted man in the NBA, but the chances of his getting his hands on another championship contender is a long shot.

There are too few of them, and that's the reason Riley looks like he wants back in Miami. The pressure on Riley would be immense: Anything short of a championship season would be failure, and would do far more damage to his coaching legacy, than winning his fifth title would do to enhance it.

Bring it in, Riley yearns to say again. Right. This wouldn't be about coaching in the dark, sweaty corners of practice, but preening in the bright lights of game night. Coaching the Heat is a glamour job again, and surprise, surprise: The glamour coach wants back in, whatever the cost.

All that ESPN has is that Shaq was upset about not getting the ball in Game 7 more. But it goes on to say that the Herald reports several players privately asked for Van Gundy to remain their coach, which makes this even more perplexing.

I don't even know if this necessarily means Riles would truly fire Van Gundy and send him out of Miami. They are still friends in some capacity and maybe SVG would return in some sort of assistant's role, which he was under Riley for like 7 years anyway.

If the question is who do you think the Heat are more likely to win with, a guy with 1000 career wins, a .600 winning percentage, and 4 NBA championships or a guy who looks like Ron Jeremy, the question is easy. If they want to make the Finals, they have to have Riley on the bench in some capacity.

Oh yeah and if Shaq wants to play for Pat Riley, good luck in practice big fella.

When Riley bailed on the team two years ago during training camp, the thinking was that he planned it all along so that the Heat would have no option but to hire his longtime buddy and career assistant Van Gundy with the season being so close to starting. There was probably no way Van Gundy would've gotten that job or another head coaching job any other way.

Rumor has it that Shaq was very angry about SVG's coaching in Game 7, something about him not getting a chance to decide the game or something. Read that in the Miami press. Maybe he really thinks so (he should be blaming Dwayne Wade and his own FT reputation), or maybe it is just cover for Riles. Who knows?

But SVG did a fantastic job last season. He also did a fantastic job the season before. He deserves better than to be treated like this.

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Whatcha gonna do when Huxamania runs wild on you?!!

I dont think Stan "Ron Jeremey" Van Gundy is any kind of special coach

Riley is 10X the coach he is IMO and has won at the highest levels of this league. I think Shaq respects Riley tons more too

Im suprised it hasnt happened earlier

Riley took Laker teams to the Finals that were oozing with talent in the '80s.
Those teams were NOT put together by him, but rather assembled by Jerry West. Saying Riley is 10x the coach of Van Gundy is really a stretch. How do the SVG's of the coaching world get that "aura" about them if everytime they have a decent team in front of them some gloryhound snatches their opportunity away from them?

I'm not saying that Riley sucks, but I am saying he has failed to win championships with any other organization since he left LA, so if your going to credit him for all the winning LA did in the '80's, it is fair game to question him for his inability to win with the Knicks and the Heat right?

Those Laker teams of the '80s had so much talent all the guy had to do is not get in the way and they would have won some rings...ala Barry Switzer in '95 for the Cowboys.

Even if this happens, the Heat still wont win a ring. The Heat will not win a ring as long as Shaq is on that team simply because Shaq is getting the pay of a player in his prime, but in actuality, he is FAR FAR past his prime. Shaq's body will fail him again this comming season...mark my words.

Our revered Pop was subjected to similar criticism when he went to the bench from the from office.

Yeah, but I agreed with firing Hill, I never thought he was a good coach, he was another screamer in the Larry Brown mode, I always felt that after the Houston elimination he lost the team. Hill should have benched Rodman for the BS he was pulling throughout that season and into the playoffs.

Let me quickly state that it would be an injustice and a bad move to fire Stan after the turn around he put together with the Heat.

But if it happens, the it would bring a strange parallelism in coaching to the Conferences. The West would have Popovich and Jackson. The East would have Brown (assuming he stays in Detroit) and Riles.

The parallels aren't perfect, but Riles and Jackson have seven rings in LA between them, Glitz and showtime. Pop and Larry's relationship and similarities are well documented, and have four rings between them. It would be fun.

Stan is an excellent coach. He doesn't have the resume of a Pat Riley, but he's excellent anyway. You just look at how coordinated the bench plays, and you see his fingerprints all over the place.

Besides, Riley couldn't even outcoach Jeff Van Gundy, and his Heat kept losing to the Knicks despite having better seeding and better talent. How great can he be now? Even the great ones can lose their touch over time - just look at Rudy T!

If this goes down, there will be no franchise I would root more against than Miami.

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Whatcha gonna do when Huxamania runs wild on you?!!

Stan is an excellent coach. He doesn't have the resume of a Pat Riley, but he's excellent anyway. You just look at how coordinated the bench plays, and you see his fingerprints all over the place.

Besides, Riley couldn't even outcoach Jeff Van Gundy, and his Heat kept losing to the Knicks despite having better seeding and better talent. How great can he be now? Even the great ones can lose their touch over time - just look at Rudy T!

If this goes down, there will be no franchise I would root more against than Miami.

I agree. I'll never say that Pat Riley was an overrated coach and a bad coach - he wasn't.

He certainly led a Lakers team loaded with talent, but he also led a Knicks team with one legitimate HOF player on the roster to within one game of the 94 NBA Championship. He turned that Knicks team around in one season (1992). By his 3rd year there - they were in the Finals. He made Miami into a respected team after years of futility. He just didn't have enough overall talent around Mourning - and yes, he was outcoached.

Not once. But 3 straight years by his former assistant Jeff Van Gundy (98-00). And if PJ Brown doesn't bodyslam Charlie Ward in 97, leading to a brawl and a slew of suspensions, the Knicks would have likely eliminated Riley's Heat four consecutive seasons.

Oh, and in 2001? Miami is swept by the Charlotte Hornets after 50 games. By another former assistant Paul Silas.

It's possible that Riley has lost his touch, but still - his resume is clearly more impressive than Stan Van Gundy.

Still, this is not the issue with this story.

The issue is that Riley wants to jump back into coaching this team when they are on the verge of more success - after he dumped them two years ago after they won 25 games. He wants to take the credit for a possible championship of a team that Stan Van Gundy molded.

I think that is a f@#king sh!tty thing for him to do.

Especially to someone who has been so loyal to him as Stan Van Gundy. Remember, the Van Gundy brothers had a bit of an estrangement over Riley. Jeff wanted Stan to join him in New York - and instead he followed Riley to Miami. That and the subsequent Knicks-Heat rivalry put a strain on the brothers relationship.

But now that Riley sees an opportunity designed to immediately contend for a championship - he's willing to throw Stan Van Gundy under the bus.

I won't question Riley's ability to coach the game - I question his integrity as a man and as a friend.

Oh, and in 2001? Miami is swept by the Charlotte Hornets after 50 games. By another former assistant Paul Silas.

Doesn't count IMO. Mourning's career was seriously f'd up after the Sydney olympics (which is the time around where he got the kidney ailment) and he was never the same, so basically the Heat were playing with an inferior lineup to the Hornets. Anthony Mason, Brian Grant, Hardaway, Eddie Jones, Bruce Bowen, Anthony Carter, AC Green, Dan Majerle on his last legs, and a shell of Mourning's past self. Not as good a team as the Bugs who were pretty nasty talent-wise.

Even if this happens, the Heat still wont win a ring. The Heat will not win a ring as long as Shaq is on that team simply because Shaq is getting the pay of a player in his prime, but in actuality, he is FAR FAR past his prime. Shaq's body will fail him again this comming season...mark my words.

I can't agree with that. I can't honestly say that Miami won't win a championship with Shaq and Wade. I won't ever say that as a fact. Because I don't know.

I seriously doubt that Shaquille O'Neal is FAR FAR past his prime. Just two seasons ago he was averaging 27.5PPG! For all the reports of his shape and his injuries and being past his prime - he still produces at a higher level than either Ewing, Olajuwon or Robinson did in their 13th season!

Miami's continued success depends on Shaq accepting a supporting role to Dwayne Wade, and whether Wade has the ability and mentality to put this team over the top.

Quote:

Originally Posted by canyoufeelit

Doesn't count IMO. Mourning's career was seriously f'd up after the Sydney olympics (which is the time around where he got the kidney ailment) and he was never the same, so basically the Heat were playing with an inferior lineup to the Hornets. Anthony Mason, Brian Grant, Hardaway, Eddie Jones, Bruce Bowen, Anthony Carter, AC Green, Dan Majerle on his last legs, and a shell of Mourning's past self. Not as good a team as the Bugs who were pretty nasty talent-wise.

Good point, but still - to get swept by Charlotte?? To not even be able to win a game?

I can't agree with that. I can't honestly say that Miami won't win a championship with Shaq and Wade. I won't ever say that as a fact. Because I don't know.

I seriously doubt that Shaquille O'Neal is FAR FAR past his prime. Just two seasons ago he was averaging 27.5PPG! For all the reports of his shape and his injuries and being past his prime - he still produces at a higher level than either Ewing, Olajuwon or Robinson did in their 13th season!

Miami's continued success depends on Shaq accepting a supporting role to Dwayne Wade, and whether Wade has the ability and mentality to put this team over the top.

Good point, but still - to get swept by Charlotte?? To not even be able to win a game?

I remember Riley's face that day. He was embarassed and defeated.

It is going to take more then 2 stars and average talent to win the title in this era. Shaqs days are dying and his days of suffering are just starting!!!!

Wow. If this happens, this may go down as one of the biggest b¡tch moves of all-time!

Riley ditched his team, during training camp, in 2003, and left VanGundy with its desicated remains. So what do the Heat do? Start the season with an embarrassing losing streak, only to claw their way into the playoffs and nearly make it to the ECF! How the hell did THAT happen? Craaaziness.

Then, after having a giftwrapped Shaquille O'Neal dumped on their doorstep, last summer, VanGundy rides his two superstars---Flash and Daddy---all the way to the ECF only to lose Game 7 on their home floor. Ouch. So, naturally, all of Miami are pissed and VanGundy is the scapegoat. Big surprise there. I mean, it's not like Wade and O'Neal were hampered by injuries or anything, right? Or that Damon James came down with a bad case of sphincter-itis? Oh wait. Uh, nevermind.

I dont think Stan "Ron Jeremey" Van Gundy is any kind of special coach

Riley is 10X the coach he is IMO and has won at the highest levels of this league. I think Shaq respects Riley tons more too

Im suprised it hasnt happened earlier

What has Stan Van Gundy not done to impress?
Pat Riley was a great coach for a while with the Lakers, but didn't do much after the titles and especially in New York.
Stan Van Gundy took a team with a limping Shaq and (late in the playoffs) a very hurt Dwyane Wade and nearly knocked off the defending champs. And what about that great run last year?
Stan Van Gundy is a very good coach, and has not done anything to warrant getting fired. I don't believe in firing a coach unless they deserve it. I'm not sure Pat Riley's ways work in the NBA anymore.