Copying text from other websites and pasting it into these forums without citing the source is unacceptable. Please add a note at the end of any copied text to give the source of the text. This is not mentioned in the EC rules because it is a matter of legality and common courtesy. It is hoped that EC members will not be so crass as to plagiarize in future. Any that do will be liable to have their membership suspended. Thank you for your co-operation.

I remember that I had to give a master class about Plagiarism two semesters ago in my college. What it annoys me a lot is that some of my classmates write essays, paper works; and they copy and paste form internet or books and they say they have the whole credit. I cannot stand it.. So, I am glad that this point has come out in the forum.

Oriani wrote:I remember that I had to give a master class about Plagiarism two semesters ago in my college. What it annoys me a lot is that some of my classmates write essays, paper works; and they copy and paste form internet or books and they say they have the whole credit. I cannot stand it.. So, I am glad that this point has come out in the forum.

Thanks, Sr Josef.

My older students had to hand in a paper on a book we had read last semester. 7 of them handed in a paper directly copied from Internet sites, not even changing a comma! Obviously they got a D, and their final mark went down a lot!

I heard that : Even with telling the sources we don't have right to copy-past the integrality (or even a part) of a text. Not sure about it.

Definitively a great question (ethical or economical or political or social motivations ? a song is not a mp3, which is not show, which is not a pdf, which is not a pharmaceutical product, which is not GMO, which is not a book, which is not a clone, which is not me... ), these author rights.

shokin wrote:I heard that : Even with telling the sources we don't have right to copy-past the integrality (or even a part) of a text. Not sure about it.

I heard something like that concerning books. here's an example:
No part of this publication may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system, or transmitted in any form or by any means, without prior permission in writing of ...

You must not circulate this book in any other binding or cover and you must impose this same condition on any acquirer.

As to web resources I agree with the majority here that by crediting the author you can post that here.

mentarget wrote:Thanks Joseph. Let those who steal ideas or information stop doing it, you guys can see that it is now an unwriting EC rule.

If an idea does not have a legal representative I think it can be counted as free source. It like a proverb you know.

Oriani wrote:I remember that I had to give a master class about Plagiarism two semesters ago in my college. What it annoys me a lot is that some of my classmates write essays, paper works; and they copy and paste form internet or books and they say they have the whole credit. I cannot stand it.. So, I am glad that this point has come out in the forum.

Thanks, Sr Josef.

My older students had to hand in a paper on a book we had read last semester. 7 of them handed in a paper directly copied from Internet sites, not even changing a comma! Obviously they got a D, and their final mark went down a lot!

And they don't even remove this " edit".. "more information" , "click here" ; hahahaha.. it's funny sometimes, because I have classmates that they really think they are "MASTERS"; They were caught with plagiarism...!!! By the way, I wrote about that in the link I posted in Shazzan's topic:-) :)

Dixie wrote:
My older students had to hand in a paper on a book we had read last semester. 7 of them handed in a paper directly copied from Internet sites, not even changing a comma! Obviously they got a D, and their final mark went down a lot!

shakespear wrote:Hello Sir Josef
You said this term:
"membership suspended"
I think you`d better warn one before suspending the membership because it`s a severe punishment.Don`t you think that?
Good luck.

Isn't it the purpose of this topic? "Warning" members who ignore plagiarism.

LennyeTran wrote:
Pretty generous of you, then. Here we get suspended for plagiarism.

Generous? What do you mean? Isn't D the lowest? Or is it F? Well, our system is from 0 to 10, 10 being excellent and 0 F. They got a zero. They got an F, then!

Yeah, F is the lowest grade. It was still generous of you. Here students are warned not to copy the whole text without citing the source, except for ESL beginning students. They don't know much English to paraphrase yet, so the teachers tend to go easy on them until they're taught how to cite the sources formally.

mentarget wrote:shakespear, I wish you understand how bad I feel concerning this. I feel bad just because I send the articles to educate others not to praise myself or take the credit.

Well, some people do appreciate my effort, while others dont. That is one of the principles of life. I understand !

Concerning suspension, I dont see it as the best option for a commited EC member who do things to educate others. But if that is my reward, I will take it.

Thanks.

If you don't give others the credits they deserve to have, you are stealing their work. And no matter how good the intention is, a stealing idea is still a stealing idea. The ends can't justify the means.

But what Mentarget posted here at EC "are not protected by copy right law".
I've noticed this too in some articles I've read. Some authors (or group of authors) allow the readers to make use of their articles for educational purposes but not for commerce. (Maybe/probably if you have the intention to use it commercially you've got to pay them. Not sure.)
There's no selling (handing over of something in exchange for money) involved and besides, he didn't specify on those posts that those are his' own articles. (It's really up to the readers if they consider it as his'.)

But what Mentarget posted here at EC "are not protected by copy right law".
I've noticed this too in some articles I've read. Some authors (or group of authors) allow the readers to make use of their articles for educational purposes but not for commerce. (Maybe/probably if you have the intention to use it commercially you've got to pay them. Not sure.)

Does it justify the fact that it was okay he didn't give any credit back to the original authors since it was just for an educational purpose, the topics are not protected by law, or the authors allow their work to be used? The end, having knowledgeable topics for members for educational enlightenment without citing the sources, and the mean, a good intention to post the topic but did not bother to give the credit to the authors, cannot be justified as the mean is somewhat bad in its own way already. Maybe some authors out there are being easy on you by allowing you to use their work without going through a whole lot troubles of asking for permission; therefore, I think the least you, as a gracious and honest person, should do is honor this generosity by giving them the credits they deserve. If you don't give them it, you're stealing because stealing is when you take something from someone without acknowledging the original owner. To me, what he did was stealing.

Krisi wrote:There's no selling (handing over of something in exchange for money) involved and besides, he didn't specify on those posts that those are his' own articles. (It's really up to the readers if they consider it as his'.)

For one thing, I need to clear that almost everyone here knows that he didn't pull those articles out of his behind. He must copy them from somewhere. The point is, where? Who wrote them? Why do we have to search for the authors when they were supposed to be mentioned as it should always be? He didn't bother to give credits to those who wrote them, which it would make them his own despite the fact he wanted to claim them his or not. In general, you cannot put a blame or whatsoever on someone else because you aren't clear with your work. If you're not being clear, the fault falls on you.

LennyeTran wrote:
Maybe some authors out there are being easy on you by allowing you to use their work without going through a whole lot troubles of asking for permission;

So far I have not done what Mentarget did. Because I know the convenience of posting the link itself than copying it... Just like what you have been doing sometimes. :P

This whole thing doesn't bother me at all. That's the will of the author... Maybe it's better to mandate the author/ or group of authors... :P
And mind you those authors I'm quite sure are not small people they have great minds. Their achievements in life are beyond reach and I think to some (authors) that's one way of thanking the people ... :) (It's like a mission or vocation in life. They find happiness in doing it.)

Honoring someone comes from the heart. One cannot force someone to do this. Sometimes words are not enough to show your gratitude. Actions are also needed.
And besides, these good deeds (of those authors) could serve as an eye opener to all of us. If no one will start doing something good for the people who will do it? Maybe we'll all end up doing something bad...(It's not good anymore!)

Last edited by Krisi on Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:21 am, edited 2 times in total.

LennyeTran wrote:
Maybe some authors out there are being easy on you by allowing you to use their work without going through a whole lot troubles of asking for permission;

So far I have not done what Mentarget did. Because I know the convenience of posting the link itself than copying it... Just like what you have been doing sometimes. :P

This whole thing doesn't bother me at all. That's the will of the author... Maybe it's better to mandate the author/ or group of authors... :P
And mind you those authors I'm quite sure are not small people they have great minds. There achievements in life are unreachable already and I think to some that's one way of thanking the people ... :)

Honoring someone comes from the heart. One cannot force someone to do this. Sometimes words are not enough to show your gratitude. Actions are also needed.

You was a general word. It was used to emphasize on people. And yes, words are not enough to thank someone, action is also needed. Weight your action to the same size as your appreciation. This is the best measurement to show your gratitude.

Xkalibur wrote:Wow, long posts and heated discussion...I've learnt some new words from them. Keep on posting, gentlemen.

:) Xkalibur, do you call this a heated discussion? For me, it's just exchanging of beliefs and opinions! :)
And this is rather a better way of knowing each other than resorting to violence. It involves a great deal of learning and understanding. You'll be able to test how long is your patience as well... :)

mentarget wrote:shakespear, I wish you understand how bad I feel concerning this. I feel bad just because I send the articles to educate others not to praise myself or take the credit.

Well, some people do appreciate my effort, while others dont. That is one of the principles of life. I understand !

Concerning suspension, I dont see it as the best option for a commited EC member who do things to educate others. But if that is my reward, I will take it.

Thanks.

My friend, nobody is discussing your intentions... the whole discussion is about what you did to educate us. As Lennye said, the end do not justify the meanings. Anyway..... Allow me to give you an advise: Next time, you should read the article first, and then make an abstract about it. In that way, you will practice your english and avoid plagiarism. Despite of doing that, you still should cite the source....

Let's change the environment, say, at school (I don't know if we can call this Plagiarism, too);

Aside from the text approved by the school, is it necessary for the teacher in school to give to the students all the references (s)he has used in preparing the lessons for the day. Will (s)he be charged of theft if (s)he doesn't inform the students.

If this is the case, I think we will run out of teachers who will assist the children to study. :P We will all go back to basic :P (It's not easy to think of nothing. We'll all be crazy? joke!) :)
Lennye, what do you think?

Last edited by Krisi on Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Let's change the environment, say, at school (I don't know if we can call this Plagiarism, too);

Aside from the text approved by the school, is it necessary for the teacher in school to give to the students all the references (s)he has used in preparing the lessons for the day. Will (s)he be charged of theft if (s)he doesn't inform the students.

If this is the case, I think we will run out of teachers who will assist the children to study. :P We will all go back to basic :P (It's not easy to think of nothing. We'll all be crazy? joke!) :)
Lennye, what do you think?

:? I'm sorry I'm not following you on this one. Can you be a little more clear? Right now, this is how I understand your question. Correct me if my understanding of your question is misleading.

Most teachers here give out lessons mainly based on textbook materials. That's why we are given textbooks as our sources. And the teachers would tell you which page, which chapter, which paragraph, etc. to look for certain information they lecture. The teachers have already had their knowledge of the information they teach through schooling and experience; however, they do read lessons in textbooks just to prepare and review the information or its changes. They then use their own words to "summarize" the information. How could this be plagiarism when they didn't copy word by word from the sources, and the students know exactly where the information comes from????

Let's change the environment, say, at school (I don't know if we can call this Plagiarism, too);

Aside from the text approved by the school, is it necessary for the teacher in school to give to the students all the references (s)he has used in preparing the lessons for the day. Will (s)he be charged of theft if (s)he doesn't inform the students.

If this is the case, I think we will run out of teachers who will assist the children to study. :P We will all go back to basic :P (It's not easy to think of nothing. We'll all be crazy? joke!) :)
Lennye, what do you think?

:? I'm sorry I'm not following you on this one. Can you be a little more clear? Right now, this is how I understand your question. Correct me if my understanding of your question is misleading.

Most teachers here give out lessons mainly based on textbook materials. That's why we are given textbooks as our sources. And the teachers would tell you which page, which chapter, which paragraph, etc. to look for certain information they lecture. The teachers have already had their knowledge of the information they teach through schooling and experience; however, they do read lessons in textbooks just to prepare and review the information or its changes. They then use their own words to "summarize" the information. How could this be plagiarism when they didn't copy word by word from the sources, and the students know exactly where the information comes from????