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E46 (1999 - 2006) The fourth generation 3 Series (E46 chassis) was introduced in 1999 and set the standard for engineering and performance during it's years of production including being named to Car & Driver's 10 best list every one of those years! ! -- View the E46 Wiki

Are you keeping track of the "free" labor? Or are you booking this in the "pleasure" column?

It's both pleasure time and a learnin' adventure.

I replaced the CCV in the intake and got the new headers painted w/ceramic paint and installed over the weekend. Will slowly reconstruct the motor this week and hope to have it and the transmission installed some time in early June.

I replaced the CCV in the intake and got the new headers painted w/ceramic paint and installed over the weekend. Will slowly reconstruct the motor this week and hope to have it and the transmission installed some time in early June.

Hi guys, new here; quick question that I didn't see in the thread, and if this is a dumb question, please explain why:
Why drop in the ZHP motor vs an M3 motor?
ZHP is easier to install than M3?
Availability and price of ZHP donor vs M3?
Info I found says the ZHP engine puts out about 230hp, but the M3 is about 300, and someone made a comment that you would be eating M3s; am I missing something from the numbers?

I have a 2004 325i Wagon and would love to drop an M3 engine in or supercharge someday, so any real info you can provide would be appreciated.

A ZHP motor produces 235hp and the M3 produces ~330hp. Installing an S54 motor in anything that didn't come with it is a wiring nightmare, the complexity of the build would be 10 fold over dropping in the ZHP M54 motor.

I've seen it done, on E46s, E36s, E30s, etc etc, but they are almost always backed by a professional shop and they take ages to complete. Just google MITE46 and look what he went through to accomplish it. I dare say he was the pioneer of the swap, doing it when the cars were still new. I'm not sure if anyone did it before him.

I don't know where to find it quickly, but there is an extremely detailed E46 M3 sedan build floating around out there that will also give you a good idea of the scope of an S54 swap.

I'm sure ffej might tell me I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I'm pretty sure swapping in the ZHP 3.0 motor is essentially "plug and play," allowing you to drop the motor in and home and use the factory wiring already in the wagon. I'm not sure if he'll have to have the car reprogrammed to tell it it has a different heart.

I would guess an S54 swap couldn't be done for less than $10k, not including all the other things you would want to upgrade to compliment your fancy new motor (brakes, suspension, etc). At that price point, an LS1 swap is also a realistic option. I've ridden in LS1 E36s, as much as I love a BMW powerplant, if I was considering dropping 10k and a year or two's effort into a motorswap, I'd probably go for the one that could produce almost double the power with a few bolt ons.

So why ZHP vs M3? is like asking why fly commercial when you could go private. Entirely different ballparks.

I am betting ffej is busy dealing with fines and legal fees to defend against his neighborhood association infractions for too many cars in his driveway!

LOL! Close. Dealing with a friend's car, kids home from the summer and a new job.

My gut is telling me the wagon will be put together by the end of July.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlimKlim

I'm sure ffej might tell me I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I'm pretty sure swapping in the ZHP 3.0 motor is essentially "plug and play," allowing you to drop the motor in and home and use the factory wiring already in the wagon. I'm not sure if he'll have to have the car reprogrammed to tell it it has a different heart.

I would guess an S54 swap couldn't be done for less than $10k, not including all the other things you would want to upgrade to compliment your fancy new motor (brakes, suspension, etc). At that price point, an LS1 swap is also a realistic option. I've ridden in LS1 E36s, as much as I love a BMW powerplant, if I was considering dropping 10k and a year or two's effort into a motorswap, I'd probably go for the one that could produce almost double the power with a few bolt ons.

No, you're right. I've spoken with enough people and learned that the S54 swap, done right, is a lot of work. And when it's done improperly, it's fraught with peril. For the car that's my DD, I'd rather have something that is simpler, rather than more complex. If it were purely a project/toy, I'd be looking at a full M3 drivetrain swap, but the electronics involved are beyond my mastery. I am considering a custom tune, based on dyno time. I think it would be fun to get the motor really dialed in. It'll probably add another $1000 to the job I'm doing, but see below.

Plus, with the 3.0 swap, I'll pretty much break even except for the time involved. LS3. That's what I would do. Or an LSA if I had more money than brains.

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Building a ZHP wagon... click the pic!!!-.-.-.--.-.-.-Because BMW wouldn't do it for me

What I wonder about is the differences between the MS43 and MS45.1 tunes. I have to think they're minimal, and the motor can figure it out, but dammit, I want 7k rpm! And eleventy-billion horse powah!

All my research leads me to believe the MS45.1 tune is actually more "detuned" than the MS43 so you should be able to unlock more power from the ZHP DME than the non ZHP one. Shark might be the way to go as they now have USB capability for updates and custom stuff.

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Check out my YouTube Channel for DIY's and other fun stuff HERECheck out my BMWBLOG!

All my research leads me to believe the MS45.1 tune is actually more "detuned" than the MS43 so you should be able to unlock more power from the ZHP DME than the non ZHP one. Shark might be the way to go as they now have USB capability for updates and custom stuff.

That's good to know, actually! I'm going to run the completely stock tune for a bit, just to see how it goes, but I'd really like to get some more revs out of the motor, even just 500RPM would make the difference in having to shift or not in not-ideal spots. But then, the extra horsies might make it a moot point so I won't have to downshift in two of the corners I drove this weekend.

And something else funny happened. Two of my friends (both guys own two M3s) and I were chatting between sessions yesterday morning and they both tried to plant the LS1 swap seed in my head. "Dude, you could totally sell the 3-litre and 6 speed and get an LS1, T6 trans and the vorshlag conversion kit for about the same money...."

I have to say, it's really freaking tempting...All that torque...big, smokey burnouts from the wagon....mmmmmm

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Building a ZHP wagon... click the pic!!!-.-.-.--.-.-.-Because BMW wouldn't do it for me

That's good to know, actually! I'm going to run the completely stock tune for a bit, just to see how it goes, but I'd really like to get some more revs out of the motor, even just 500RPM would make the difference in having to shift or not in not-ideal spots. But then, the extra horsies might make it a moot point so I won't have to downshift in two of the corners I drove this weekend.

And something else funny happened. Two of my friends (both guys own two M3s) and I were chatting between sessions yesterday morning and they both tried to plant the LS1 swap seed in my head. "Dude, you could totally sell the 3-litre and 6 speed and get an LS1, T6 trans and the vorshlag conversion kit for about the same money...."

I have to say, it's really freaking tempting...All that torque...big, smokey burnouts from the wagon....mmmmmm

The guys at ZHPMafia who have done it, swear by the Shark. I saw dyno charts that show a 14hp peak increase. That is substantial for $350 mod.

As for the LS1, what an idea. Funny enough, my brother in law and I are kicking around the idea of dropping his drag motor (427 stroker with .700 lift nascar cams and heads, useable RPM range 4000-9000rpm) into my old 323. But for you, the LS1 would make a GREAT track car. Not so much for DD.

And for less money you could easily put a blower on the BMW engine and make decent power too. Coupled with your driving skills you would murder M3's.

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Check out my YouTube Channel for DIY's and other fun stuff HERECheck out my BMWBLOG!

The guys at ZHPMafia who have done it, swear by the Shark. I saw dyno charts that show a 14hp peak increase. That is substantial for $350 mod.

For me it would be less about the top end (I'm putting headers on) and more about just getting the map more friendly and adding the extra spin to the motor.

Quote:

As for the LS1, what an idea. Funny enough, my brother in law and I are kicking around the idea of dropping his drag motor (427 stroker with .700 lift nascar cams and heads, useable RPM range 4000-9000rpm) into my old 323. But for you, the LS1 would make a GREAT track car. Not so much for DD.

And for less money you could easily put a blower on the BMW engine and make decent power too. Coupled with your driving skills you would murder M3's.

Funny thing that...we had a couple instructor training candidates out this weekend. the Chief instructor asked me to get a feel for his driving and "maybe show him a few things". So we went out in his C5 Z06. Before we went out he said he felt a vibration and he didn't want to push it too hard. We did a few laps and I realized what he meant. So the next available session I took him out in the wagon with the idea that I would just test his ability to not get car sick. I drove the piss out of the car. Like keeping up with a high-intermediate level student in a 996 GT3 driving the piss out of the car. As we pulled into the paddock at the end of the session, he said "So I have to ask...were you a professional driver or just a semi-pro?"

One thing became brilliantly clear this weekend...If I could just get some fooking drive out of the inside tire, the car would be SO much better. It's a damn shame BMW stopped putting LSD in non-M cars.

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Building a ZHP wagon... click the pic!!!-.-.-.--.-.-.-Because BMW wouldn't do it for me