I do agree with Nick that if people only claim & hold, stake, sell then no real $$ would come in except for the network effect that naturally occurs.. which is essentially someone passing the buck until the cash-out-crash happens & people are left holding the expensive bag.

I just hope we continue creating ways to improve on the whale issue because it is worth noting in any coin, and can make it really hard for others to have faith in any stable form of investment over a long term period of time within SLR since concentration of power does not allow for it.

we need new & diversified money in SLR.. lets hope it comes soon

Thanks, and I am only showing the perspectives and many scenarios can play out.

I am building on a theory to stabilize the price, meanwhile waiting for feedback in slack. I only have a few weeks for overall acceptance by SolarCoin and will take my ideas elsewhere if denial is eminent. I hope that SolarCoin will allow me to mold my ideas into a final version of Crypto to solidify trade. This is what we all want to be able to do and incentivize solar at the same time. It will require a Roll in of Coin so to be honest and up front about that so you can know that the concept will make that big of a change if accepted.

I think if you knew what I was planning you may go bonkers buying but I am going for integrity and may wash out the interchange. Not sure if people will be able to get their head around the concepts though and the legality must be explored, but I think in the end it will be seen that worth was always perceptual in both models, but I will make the perception work to PEG BitCoin to SLR now. Not the other way around.

Just know that vipgelsi and mattwj44 started me on my quest through countless posts and postulations, that if successful we will hit the Sun! The end goal is completely Utopian but shares a balance of perception within every currency of the world to hinge on the one thing that hinges in all economies... Power.

Eventually I think Solarcoin will grow large enough it won't even need Bitcoin. I can see a time when Coinbase will change it directly to fiat. I say this because of the nature of the coin. It's designed to do something useful from the start. It's aimed towards industry primarily. Eventually as it grows and solar companies begin to accept it for panels, grid ties, batteries, installation and whatnot, Coinbase and similar services will take note and fill the fiat void. They will want a piece of the action and for obvious reasons.

In my view this is how it's going to grow to help incentivize solar growth because it's the hardware and development that drives the industry.

I do agree with Nick that if people only claim & hold, stake, sell then no real $$ would come in except for the network effect that naturally occurs.. which is essentially someone passing the buck until the cash-out-crash happens & people are left holding the expensive bag.

I just hope we continue creating ways to improve on the whale issue because it is worth noting in any coin, and can make it really hard for others to have faith in any stable form of investment over a long term period of time within SLR since concentration of power does not allow for it.

we need new & diversified money in SLR.. lets hope it comes soon

Thanks, and I am only showing the perspectives and many scenarios can play out.

I am building on a theory to stabilize the price, meanwhile waiting for feedback in slack. I only have a few weeks for overall acceptance by SolarCoin and will take my ideas elsewhere if denial is eminent. I hope that SolarCoin will allow me to mold my ideas into a final version of Crypto to solidify trade. This is what we all want to be able to do and incentivize solar at the same time. It will require a Roll in of Coin so to be honest and up front about that so you can know that the concept will make that big of a change if accepted.

I think if you knew what I was planning you may go bonkers buying but I am going for integrity and may wash out the interchange. Not sure if people will be able to get their head around the concepts though and the legality must be explored, but I think in the end it will be seen that worth was always perceptual in both models, but I will make the perception work to PEG BitCoin to SLR now. Not the other way around.

Just know that vipgelsi and mattwj44 started me on my quest through countless posts and postulations, that if successful we will hit the Sun! The end goal is completely Utopian but shares a balance of perception within every currency of the world to hinge on the one thing that hinges in all economies... Power.

....Cyptonick: Why do you assume all solarcoin claimers will sell right away? Im sure there will be plenty of people who would rather just keep their coins rather than selling, especially because you don't get many coins from claiming and there is a lot of upside potential.I know what you mean there might be some who will sell right away but Im sure there are many people like me who would gladly buy their Solarcoins at the right price

I didn't mean it that way if it came across like that, I know there will be holders but all Claimers will be sellers. This is the only thing to be true since it costs them nothing to Claim and they want value out for the time it took to claim. There may not be enough value to entice them to claim right now too. But eventually when the price pumps up legitimately or fake volume (we won't know fake/real) then there might be more claimers. So this would make me assume that Claimers would also be sellers, along with any holders who waited to sell.

So it perpetuates the selling either way, not the buying, and even if they buy they wish to make money and sell. This is the basis of the markets but there is no PnL or corporate structure to base worth on. Again the only thing that makes BitCoin worth something is the cost of infrastructure and ASIC costs and Power Costs and willingness to buy it, vs. the scarcity of it, vs. demand. So we know these take an ROI to pay for just to find BitCoin.

So the 2 models don't even extrapolate value against each other unless sold to one, and the main intention was noble of SolarCoin but it is backwards causing BitCoin to be gained as the exiting denomination of choice. The reason for granting SolarCoin, is that they don't want to infringe on a Securities exchange act, and by giving SolarCoin away it helps that perception of legality. But I am not sure if SolarCoin can keep the Dev Fund since that may be considered Class A stock. Yet anyone could have mined the coin so it is still a representation of a Share that has worth and Devs could have mined instead of using a Dev fund, or both for that matter. So there is the Paradox. How do you get around all of the legalities and do something positive? Very fine line to try to walk...

I do agree with Nick that if people only claim & hold, stake, sell then no real $$ would come in except for the network effect that naturally occurs.. which is essentially someone passing the buck until the cash-out-crash happens & people are left holding the expensive bag.

I just hope we continue creating ways to improve on the whale issue because it is worth noting in any coin, and can make it really hard for others to have faith in any stable form of investment over a long term period of time within SLR since concentration of power does not allow for it.

we need new & diversified money in SLR.. lets hope it comes soon

Thanks, and I am only showing the perspectives and many scenarios can play out.

I am building on a theory to stabilize the price, meanwhile waiting for feedback in slack. I only have a few weeks for overall acceptance by SolarCoin and will take my ideas elsewhere if denial is eminent. I hope that SolarCoin will allow me to mold my ideas into a final version of Crypto to solidify trade. This is what we all want to be able to do and incentivize solar at the same time. It will require a Roll in of Coin so to be honest and up front about that so you can know that the concept will make that big of a change if accepted.

I think if you knew what I was planning you may go bonkers buying but I am going for integrity and may wash out the interchange. Not sure if people will be able to get their head around the concepts though and the legality must be explored, but I think in the end it will be seen that worth was always perceptual in both models, but I will make the perception work to PEG BitCoin to SLR now. Not the other way around.

Just know that vipgelsi and mattwj44 started me on my quest through countless posts and postulations, that if successful we will hit the Sun! The end goal is completely Utopian but shares a balance of perception within every currency of the world to hinge on the one thing that hinges in all economies... Power.

Eventually I think Solarcoin will grow large enough it won't even need Bitcoin. I can see a time when Coinbase will change it directly to fiat. I say this because of the nature of the coin. It's designed to do something useful from the start. It's aimed towards industry primarily. Eventually as it grows and solar companies begin to accept it for panels, grid ties, batteries, installation and whatnot, Coinbase and similar services will take note and fill the fiat void. They will want a piece of the action and for obvious reasons.

In my view this is how it's going to grow to help incentivize solar growth because it's the hardware and development that drives the industry.

That is a closed market since you don't need SolarCoin to buy something so you won't go buy SolarCoin only Claimers will try to sell it and then merchants sell off too. Possible that people can play that market and it may keep boosting so it would be better than only BitCoin. I just think it wasn't this way initially since that is the Securities act violation. When selling to BitCoin then BitCoin bears the burden of FIAT transactions and SolarCoin is still free from scrutiny even though there is a slight amount of scrutiny that it may be able to slip around it by not offering FIAT based exchange.

Had BitCoin never accepted FIAT and only used for trade it may still hold the same distinction but now as it sits BitCoin is a Stock and Commodity forged out of Spurious activity and peoples willingness to invest in ASICs to produce coin from thin air.

Eventually I think Solarcoin will grow large enough it won't even need Bitcoin. I can see a time when Coinbase will change it directly to fiat. I say this because of the nature of the coin. It's designed to do something useful from the start. It's aimed towards industry primarily. Eventually as it grows and solar companies begin to accept it for panels, grid ties, batteries, installation and whatnot, Coinbase and similar services will take note and fill the fiat void. They will want a piece of the action and for obvious reasons.

In my view this is how it's going to grow to help incentivize solar growth because it's the hardware and development that drives the industry.

That is a closed market since you don't need SolarCoin to buy something so you won't go buy SolarCoin only Claimers will try to sell it and then merchants sell off too. Possible that people can play that market and it may keep boosting so it would be better than only BitCoin. I just think it wasn't this way initially since that is the Securities act violation. When selling to BitCoin then BitCoin bears the burden of FIAT transactions and SolarCoin is still free from scrutiny even though there is a slight amount of scrutiny that it may be able to slip around it by not offering FIAT based exchange.

Had BitCoin never accepted FIAT and only used for trade it may still hold the same distinction but now as it sits BitCoin is a Stock and Commodity forged out of Spurious activity and peoples willingness to invest in ASICs to produce coin from thin air.

There are many misconceptions and errors in those 2 paragraphs. I'll only touch on two of them. If solar companies accepted solarcoin for hardware and services, there will be an incentive to buy it outright on the market (like through coinbase) in order to make a crypto purchase. Any fiat to crypto conversions through coinbase are already licensed.

Eventually I think Solarcoin will grow large enough it won't even need Bitcoin. I can see a time when Coinbase will change it directly to fiat. I say this because of the nature of the coin. It's designed to do something useful from the start. It's aimed towards industry primarily. Eventually as it grows and solar companies begin to accept it for panels, grid ties, batteries, installation and whatnot, Coinbase and similar services will take note and fill the fiat void. They will want a piece of the action and for obvious reasons.

In my view this is how it's going to grow to help incentivize solar growth because it's the hardware and development that drives the industry.

That is a closed market since you don't need SolarCoin to buy something so you won't go buy SolarCoin only Claimers will try to sell it and then merchants sell off too. Possible that people can play that market and it may keep boosting so it would be better than only BitCoin. I just think it wasn't this way initially since that is the Securities act violation. When selling to BitCoin then BitCoin bears the burden of FIAT transactions and SolarCoin is still free from scrutiny even though there is a slight amount of scrutiny that it may be able to slip around it by not offering FIAT based exchange.

Had BitCoin never accepted FIAT and only used for trade it may still hold the same distinction but now as it sits BitCoin is a Stock and Commodity forged out of Spurious activity and peoples willingness to invest in ASICs to produce coin from thin air.

There are many misconceptions and errors in those 2 paragraphs. I'll only touch on two of them. If solar companies accepted solarcoin for hardware and services, there will be an incentive to buy it outright on the market (like through coinbase) in order to make a crypto purchase. Any fiat to crypto conversions through coinbase are already licensed.

There is a difference between the license to accept FIAT for Crypto and creation of the stock, the very inception of Crypto goes against the Securities act. Anyone can make a coin now and have their own decentralized stock that can skirt an issue. So why does SolarCoin care about this security act? Why would they say it matters? I was told this by them and now have to work my ideas around the Security Act when in actuality SolarCoin may be in violation.

If Solar Companies accept SolarCoin they will give away Solar Panels for SolarCoin? Sounds great, I am going to go make Lamborghini coin and have Lamborghini accept coins I gave away to people who ride the bus and can claim them with their bus stubs to then be able to buy a Lamborghini with this new freshly minted coin.

So you are saying that the Solar Companies now sell the Solar Coin they accept right? Well who would buy the Solar Coin at face value? If buying SolarCoin is equal to the selling price of the Solar Panel to keep the Solar Company in business, the buyer may as well just use their Cash on hand. Oh wait they can buy low? nope solar company goes out of business just slower. Hmm, the prospective panel buyers take their FIAT and buy solar coin higher than it costs to make solar panels? Ok you got me there.

Only possible scenario is to get a discount on the purchase, then the solar panel company can write it off, but then just throw away the coins since they can not profit from them. And if they don't destroy the coins and sell them later they are in violation due to tax fraud. Being that they accepted the Coin and then wrote off the cost and then 2 years later when the coin went to $10 a coin they profited from their write off.

So in that instance the coin would need to be burned if accepted and the price would be equal to the discount, so only less coin could be burned if the price goes higher. But this still doesn't create a buy just to get a Discount unless the Discount is larger than the buy in. Which means the glut of Solar Coin being claimed and sold would make it worth less too and not incentive enough to take the time to claim. It just doesn't work in these scenarios.

FIAT is a closed market for SolarCoin there is no misconception, and BitCoin will drain the SolarCoin economy! Who is going to buy the SolarCoin? Speculators? If you can show me how just through mere speculation of price that it would perpetuate the market I am all ears. Remember that there are free coins dumping like rain if the price goes up too. Since it comes down to an eventual top value of 1MWh per coin you also have a ceiling... combined with rain, a leaky ceiling. Then there is no profiting from the new current buyers, only loss and with the advent of newer solar panels lowering costs the value can also go down. So once the price stabilizes now the costs are dollar for dollar which means you may as well go spend your dollar instead of buying SolarCoin. It is a vicious cycle.

Eventually I think Solarcoin will grow large enough it won't even need Bitcoin. I can see a time when Coinbase will change it directly to fiat. I say this because of the nature of the coin. It's designed to do something useful from the start. It's aimed towards industry primarily. Eventually as it grows and solar companies begin to accept it for panels, grid ties, batteries, installation and whatnot, Coinbase and similar services will take note and fill the fiat void. They will want a piece of the action and for obvious reasons.

In my view this is how it's going to grow to help incentivize solar growth because it's the hardware and development that drives the industry.

That is a closed market since you don't need SolarCoin to buy something so you won't go buy SolarCoin only Claimers will try to sell it and then merchants sell off too. Possible that people can play that market and it may keep boosting so it would be better than only BitCoin. I just think it wasn't this way initially since that is the Securities act violation. When selling to BitCoin then BitCoin bears the burden of FIAT transactions and SolarCoin is still free from scrutiny even though there is a slight amount of scrutiny that it may be able to slip around it by not offering FIAT based exchange.

Had BitCoin never accepted FIAT and only used for trade it may still hold the same distinction but now as it sits BitCoin is a Stock and Commodity forged out of Spurious activity and peoples willingness to invest in ASICs to produce coin from thin air.

There are many misconceptions and errors in those 2 paragraphs. I'll only touch on two of them. If solar companies accepted solarcoin for hardware and services, there will be an incentive to buy it outright on the market (like through coinbase) in order to make a crypto purchase. Any fiat to crypto conversions through coinbase are already licensed.

There is a difference between the license to accept FIAT for Crypto and creation of the stock, the very inception of Crypto goes against the Securities act. Anyone can make a coin now and have their own decentralized stock that can skirt an issue. So why does SolarCoin care about this security act? Why would they say it matters? I was told this by them and now have to work my ideas around the Security Act when in actuality SolarCoin may be in violation.

If Solar Companies accept SolarCoin they will give away Solar Panels for SolarCoin? Sounds great, I am going to go make Lamborghini coin and have Lamborghini accept coins I gave away to people who ride the bus and can claim them with their bus stubs to then be able to buy a Lamborghini with this new freshly minted coin.

So you are saying that the Solar Companies now sell the Solar Coin they accept right? Well who would buy the Solar Coin at face value? If buying SolarCoin is equal to the selling price of the Solar Panel to keep the Solar Company in business, the buyer may as well just use their Cash on hand. Oh wait they can buy low? nope solar company goes out of business just slower. Hmm, the prospective panel buyers take their FIAT and buy solar coin higher than it costs to make solar panels? Ok you got me there.

Only possible scenario is to get a discount on the purchase, then the solar panel company can write it off, but then just throw away the coins since they can not profit from them. And if they don't destroy the coins and sell them later they are in violation due to tax fraud. Being that they accepted the Coin and then wrote off the cost and then 2 years later when the coin went to $10 a coin they profited from their write off.

So in that instance the coin would need to be burned if accepted and the price would be equal to the discount, so only less coin could be burned if the price goes higher. But this still doesn't create a buy just to get a Discount unless the Discount is larger than the buy in. Which means the glut of Solar Coin being claimed and sold would make it worth less too and not incentive enough to take the time to claim. It just doesn't work in these scenarios.

FIAT is a closed market for SolarCoin there is no misconception, and BitCoin will drain the SolarCoin economy! Who is going to buy the SolarCoin? Speculators? If you can show me how just through mere speculation of price that it would perpetuate the market I am all ears. Remember that there are free coins dumping like rain if the price goes up too. Since it comes down to an eventual top value of 1MWh per coin you also have a ceiling... combined with rain, a leaky ceiling. Then there is no profiting from the new current buyers, only loss and with the advent of newer solar panels lowering costs the value can also go down. So once the price stabilizes now the costs are dollar for dollar which means you may as well go spend your dollar instead of buying SolarCoin. It is a vicious cycle.

It works okay for Bitcoin, I don't see an issue with Solarcoin working the same way. Would I market buy if the cost is less than paying with fiat for something? Maybe. There are costs related to doing business with banks retrieving funds for items purchased, it could be in their best interest to make it work depending on any situation, it could benefit everyone. It could also boost sales as overstock has experienced. That in itself would be worth the investment.

Eventually I think Solarcoin will grow large enough it won't even need Bitcoin. I can see a time when Coinbase will change it directly to fiat. I say this because of the nature of the coin. It's designed to do something useful from the start. It's aimed towards industry primarily. Eventually as it grows and solar companies begin to accept it for panels, grid ties, batteries, installation and whatnot, Coinbase and similar services will take note and fill the fiat void. They will want a piece of the action and for obvious reasons.

In my view this is how it's going to grow to help incentivize solar growth because it's the hardware and development that drives the industry.

That is a closed market since you don't need SolarCoin to buy something so you won't go buy SolarCoin only Claimers will try to sell it and then merchants sell off too. Possible that people can play that market and it may keep boosting so it would be better than only BitCoin. I just think it wasn't this way initially since that is the Securities act violation. When selling to BitCoin then BitCoin bears the burden of FIAT transactions and SolarCoin is still free from scrutiny even though there is a slight amount of scrutiny that it may be able to slip around it by not offering FIAT based exchange.

Had BitCoin never accepted FIAT and only used for trade it may still hold the same distinction but now as it sits BitCoin is a Stock and Commodity forged out of Spurious activity and peoples willingness to invest in ASICs to produce coin from thin air.

There are many misconceptions and errors in those 2 paragraphs. I'll only touch on two of them. If solar companies accepted solarcoin for hardware and services, there will be an incentive to buy it outright on the market (like through coinbase) in order to make a crypto purchase. Any fiat to crypto conversions through coinbase are already licensed.

There is a difference between the license to accept FIAT for Crypto and creation of the stock, the very inception of Crypto goes against the Securities act. Anyone can make a coin now and have their own decentralized stock that can skirt an issue. So why does SolarCoin care about this security act? Why would they say it matters? I was told this by them and now have to work my ideas around the Security Act when in actuality SolarCoin may be in violation.

If Solar Companies accept SolarCoin they will give away Solar Panels for SolarCoin? Sounds great, I am going to go make Lamborghini coin and have Lamborghini accept coins I gave away to people who ride the bus and can claim them with their bus stubs to then be able to buy a Lamborghini with this new freshly minted coin.

So you are saying that the Solar Companies now sell the Solar Coin they accept right? Well who would buy the Solar Coin at face value? If buying SolarCoin is equal to the selling price of the Solar Panel to keep the Solar Company in business, the buyer may as well just use their Cash on hand. Oh wait they can buy low? nope solar company goes out of business just slower. Hmm, the prospective panel buyers take their FIAT and buy solar coin higher than it costs to make solar panels? Ok you got me there.

Only possible scenario is to get a discount on the purchase, then the solar panel company can write it off, but then just throw away the coins since they can not profit from them. And if they don't destroy the coins and sell them later they are in violation due to tax fraud. Being that they accepted the Coin and then wrote off the cost and then 2 years later when the coin went to $10 a coin they profited from their write off.

So in that instance the coin would need to be burned if accepted and the price would be equal to the discount, so only less coin could be burned if the price goes higher. But this still doesn't create a buy just to get a Discount unless the Discount is larger than the buy in. Which means the glut of Solar Coin being claimed and sold would make it worth less too and not incentive enough to take the time to claim. It just doesn't work in these scenarios.

FIAT is a closed market for SolarCoin there is no misconception, and BitCoin will drain the SolarCoin economy! Who is going to buy the SolarCoin? Speculators? If you can show me how just through mere speculation of price that it would perpetuate the market I am all ears. Remember that there are free coins dumping like rain if the price goes up too. Since it comes down to an eventual top value of 1MWh per coin you also have a ceiling... combined with rain, a leaky ceiling. Then there is no profiting from the new current buyers, only loss and with the advent of newer solar panels lowering costs the value can also go down. So once the price stabilizes now the costs are dollar for dollar which means you may as well go spend your dollar instead of buying SolarCoin. It is a vicious cycle.

It works okay for Bitcoin, I don't see an issue with Solarcoin working the same way. Would I market buy if the cost is less than paying with fiat for something? Maybe. There are costs related to doing business with banks retrieving funds for items purchased, it could be in their best interest to make it work depending on any situation, it could benefit everyone. It could also boost sales as overstock has experienced. That in itself would be worth the investment.

SolarCoin isn't BitCoin you can't just say it works Okay for BitCoin so it must for SolarCoin also. The market costs are built in to normal markets and are set rates, 3% etc for Visa. Now when you consider that Crypto can go to NIL per coin why would you buy high and accept huge losses as a cost of doing business just to reach people getting coin for free? This is also a deterrent to people buying in/High etc. Also the original owners of the coin will be the only ones who make money on the initial transactions so why wouldn't the Solar Panel company just go create their own version of SolarCoin? Because it is a Zero Sum game and the only people pushing for it are those who want to profit from it. But it will be raining for 40 years 98 Billion SolarCoin. It is of Biblical proportions to Moses wandering for 40 years. How much power do you think BitCoin will use in those 40 years?

I have remedies for this. You are going to love the concepts, I can only share them if SolarCoin decides to go forward. If not, then I start my own coin. I face the same factors though but it is idealistic and that can only go so far sometimes on its own. We will work through the sticking points to relate better to the overall vision, this always brings us back to Solar.

Buying at market is what you do at coinbase by the way. When you buy it's always a market buy.

It is a closed market for SolarCoin not for BitCoin. I outlined it above ^

It's not closed, it just hasn't opened yet. Solarcoin is still in infrastructure the same was Bitcoin was in 2010. In 40 years you'll only have 460 more solarcoin than bitcoin and the price performance of solarcoin will reflect that. In 40 years I could see solarcoin reaching 90 dollars per coin, especially when you factor in inflation, it could go even higher. Right now I'd be extremely happy with 10 cents, but we're going to have to build 7 times more value into the concept. Most of that will come through claims and distribution.

In fact we've already witnessed a doubling in value with the successful implementation of PoST, and incorporation into a public services company. These things add value, and as we build more into the concept more value will be added, as well as claims. As this occurs it'll attract more investment into technology to service acceptance. As well as emerging technology already in progress with embedded technology to track claims and automate the process. All of this software and hardware coming together will add even more value to the project.

Buying at market is what you do at coinbase by the way. When you buy it's always a market buy.

It is a closed market for SolarCoin not for BitCoin. I outlined it above ^

It's not closed, it just hasn't opened yet. Solarcoin is still in infrastructure the same was Bitcoin was in 2010. In 40 years you'll only have 460 more solarcoin than bitcoin and the price performance of solarcoin will reflect that. In 40 years I could see solarcoin reaching 90 dollars per coin, especially when you factor in inflation, it could go even higher. Right now I'd be extremely happy with 10 cents, but we're going to have to build 7 times more value into the concept. Most of that will come through claims and distribution.

Buying at market is what you do at coinbase by the way. When you buy it's always a market buy.

It is a closed market for SolarCoin not for BitCoin. I outlined it above ^

It's not closed, it just hasn't opened yet. Solarcoin is still in infrastructure the same was Bitcoin was in 2010. In 40 years you'll only have 460 more solarcoin than bitcoin and the price performance of solarcoin will reflect that. In 40 years I could see solarcoin reaching 90 dollars per coin, especially when you factor in inflation, it could go even higher. Right now I'd be extremely happy with 10 cents, but we're going to have to build 7 times more value into the concept. Most of that will come through claims and distribution.

I meant to say 460x as many solarcoins as bitcoins. Derp.

Actually I dropped a zero, it's 4600 times as many, but the value isn't as expected to rise as high as bitcoin. Math.