it's either around the same price or more expensive from what heroin prices i've heard quoted up against the average prices i've paid for OC's. a .3g bag would be equal to the price of 3 expensive 80's. i'd rather load up the smack anytime, regardless the price of the oxy

So i have about 8 500mg/30mg codeine panadeine forte pills. I've only done the CWE 2-3 times in the past with Panafen Plus 500mg/12.8mg (200mg dose) i got high, but i'm pretty sure i wasted alot of the codeine through a poor extraction process.

My question is, is it worth trying again with the forte pills (i wont be able to get anymore) or should i practice more with OTC products? I get a really nice buzz from 90mg (3 pills) orally.. but thats about the limit i can go with the amount of paracetamol involved. There's quite a few different techniques, some involving the freezer.. im not sure on the method most people have most success with?

So basically you take however many pills you want to dose, dissolve them in some cold water (ideally chilled in the fridge for a while, but cold tap water works in a pinch. generally people use 2ml/tablet, but as long as you keep it below 50ml - 70ml you're fine), once they've completely dissolved you get left with a viscous white fluid, which you run through a coffee filter (pre-dampened to prevent it absorbing your precious drugs), the water runs through into the second cup with the opiates inside it, the APAP is still solid and gets caught in the coffee filter. Throw out the white gunk in the filter, drink the (rather foul tasting) water and enjoy.

If you want to be a little more thorough, once you've filtered it once, lift up the first filter (with the gunk in it), put down a second (also dampened) filter on top of the cup, then wrap the first one (with the paracetemol in it) in a tshirt or piece of cloth and squeeze it out into the second filter on top of the cup, to get the remaining liquid out. Let that filter through, then drink what's in the cup and enjoy the high.

I wouldn't CWE your fortes dude. All 8 pills is only 4 grams APAP, the maximum reccomended daily dose. As long as you aren't making a habit of it then popping them all should be fine and there no losses that way.

I think its a waste of fortes to bother with CWE I mean you can just CWE OTC pills, aslong as it isn't a habit you can catch a nice buzz without bothering with CWE and not expect any negative long term effects. Whenever I get fortes I just pop them. The best thing about it is that there is NO estimation accounting for losses, you pop that many pills and that exactly how much codeine you took.

Take em all and if you like it buy some panafen plus and learn to CWE.

^ I dunno man, 4g of paracetamol is still quite a lot. I read recently in the news that they were thinking about lowering the recommended and maximum doses for paracetamol because they may be too high. As a once off it'd probably be ok but it's still pretty harsh on your liver.

malakaix, if you can catch a buzz from 90mg of codeine then you shouldn't be worrying about loss in the CWE procedure. If you find a pretty consistent method then you could work out what a nice dose is and stick with that. Say you used 10 tabs (128mg), even allowing 20% loss - which I think is quite high - you'd still be getting a buzz. And 25ml of water would easily do for 10 tabs, which means about 25mg ibuprofen, almost a tenth of a normal dose, so it's really bugger all ibuprofen. Much better than 4g of paracetamol at any rate.

Crankinit is right, a key part of the procedure is squeezing the filter. I seem to get about 75% of the filtrate dripping through then have to squeeze out the rest. Use some sort of material and you can squeeze hard and get every drop through.

During the cooling and shaking process, the acetaminophen settles to the bottom of the container. Once I am sure that the pills are completely dissolved, is it necessary to run the sludge in the bottom of the container through the filter?

I know the daily limit isn't 4 grams all at once, but it is supposed to be okay to take 4 grams a day for extended periods, 4 grams as a once off or very irregularly probably isn't going to cause anybody any real harm imho. That said I am not a doctor or medical proffessional by any stretch.

Before I mastered CWE on the odd occassions I would get panadeine fortes I never CWE'd them, it might not be the safest practise but very occasionally I doubt it is inherrently dangerous either.

I am pretty sure its somewhere between 6-10 grams at once that is where trouble can start and for a once off I would wager that is on the conservative side of what is called dangerous. I have certainly munched down more than 4 grams of paracetamol at once on the odd occassion and didn't notice any liver pains or anything.

Jack Jones, I find it best to put the whole solution, gunk and all, into a T-shirt or any other tight woven piece of material and squeeze the shit out of it. This seperates most, if not all, the liquid from the majority of the gunk. Then I run this solution through a coffee filter or two. I don't personally advocate squeezing the filter and drinking that liquid without refiltering because I have done it in the past and drank a very cloudy solution that resulted in some abdominal pain (which was never noticed when munching more than the reccomended dose of fortes).

^it's mostly true that extended use of apap isnt going to cause any long term problems but a problem thats been associated with it is increased ALT, a liver enzyme, which is reversable after short term. i've got this little excerpt but i cant remember where from. its probably easy to do a google search and find this stuff anyway

Even though Tylenol most likely does not cause serious liver damage in recommended doses, it can cause elevations of liver enzymes in the blood suggesting injury to the liver. In a study of 145 healthy subjects who were randomized to receive placebo or 4 grams of Tylenol daily for two weeks, subjects in the placebo group experienced no elevations of ALT, a liver enzyme, but 33%-44% of the subjects in the Tylenol group had ALT elevations greater than three times the upper limits of normal. The highest ALT elevation was greater than 500 which is approximately 10 times the upper limit of normal. All enzyme elevations returned to normal after stopping Tylenol. Thus, recommended doses of Tylenol given to healthy subjects for two weeks can cause mild to moderate reversible liver injury

My tolerance is pretty high at the moment and I've noticed that the generic pills seem to be more effective than Panafen Plus. The Panafen seems to create a thicker mix that is harder to filter. The generic pills are a little harder to dissolve but definitely give a stronger buzz, like I still get pretty buzzed from a 48 pack of the generic pills but Panafen doesn't really give anything at all. Anyone else found this?

I get decent off of panafen but I don't have much of a tolerance. I assume you mean generic ibu/codeine pills and not paracetamol ones? I might have to give the generics a try next time I go buy some.

Isn't the ceiling dose 400mg? So wouldnt a 48 pack be kind of pointless because you are using more than is going to effect you? I suppose if you inhibited the enzyme to increase the duration then higher than 400mg would give you a stronger buzz for longer though. Anybody tried doing that?

Numbers between 400 and 500 get thrown around, in my experience it's probably closer to 500, also have to take into account that taking it on a full stomach will result in a losing a higher portion of the dose, meaning you can take over the ceiling dose to reach it in terms of 'effective dose'

Imo once you're dosing over 400mg on a regular basis it's time to lay off it and let the tolerance slide back down. Buying a 96 box and only getting 2 doses out of it kind of sucks

I calculated my ceiling dose with a formula from Wikipedia, lol, then added 10% for any loss during extraction. So the 48 pack is pretty much exactly what I want. I'm a poor metaboliser anyway, so I need that much to feel anything.

You're right though Crankinit, it is probably time to lay off for a bit. Luckily tolerance goes down pretty quickly so a week or two off should have me pretty mch back to zero.

As far as the potentiation goes, I think if you inhibit the enzymes you'll get a weak buzz or not at all. Personally I like it to hit as hard as it can, considering it's a weak opiate to begin with. I guess the only true method of potentiating is to somehow increase the availability of CYP2D6 which isn't that easy to do, seems like there's many more inhibitors than inducers out there.

I would suggest not drinking while on codeine. Paracetamol + alcohol is absolute evil to your liver. If you want to do it anyway, make sure you have a very good filtrate. I would be very afraid of mixing alcohol with a cloudy result as it could be a bunch of paracetamol in suspension. Despite this I have mixed the two anyway, so maybe I should practice what I preach.

Also, I like to mix codeine with some amitriptyline, they both make me relaxed and sleepy, and I have to do something with this amitriptyline script I got for migranes. The doctor thought my migraines were from an inability to sleep, I kept telling him I have no problems falling asleep but he didn't listen, too bad he didn't give me temazepan instead.

Yeah I was also undewr the impression most traditional ways of potentiating opiates weakened codeine but increased the duration. So if you did that and then took like 800-1000mg of codeine wouldn't that make you as high as normal but for longer?

It seems like this could be a viable way to increase what you get out of codeine since it has a ceiling dose and redosing is ineffective. I could be way off here but it just seems to me like it could work.

I might be a guinea pig for an experiment when I get a bit more experience under my belt with codeine and wait to see if anybody has any experience or knowledge on the subject.

I just got my hands on some more tramadol though so I am a happy man, codeine goes great with tramadol.

I got the best fucking deal ever, my guy has been kind of jacking me for the trams but last night he was desperate for a lift and traded a decent amount for a lift that cost me 5 bucks in petrol tops. I can't wait to piss in a cup next week and get fucked on opiates again.

^ Actually on that note, something I've always wondered, since codeine is legal and OTC, if you failed a urine test for opiates couldn't you just say you took some panadeine or nurofen plus for a headache the night before?