Another crisp victory marked by strong starting pitching, effective and efficient relief work (other than Reed making all of us ill), timely hitting, and good fielding, keeps us in first place at least through Monday's game.

Huge 4-6-3 DP induced by Thornton in the ninth. Maybe the biggest play of the year so far.

WhiteSox5187

09-15-2012, 03:51 PM

This bullpen is atrocious.

Moses_Scurry

09-15-2012, 03:52 PM

Let's go Cleveland!

Soxman219

09-15-2012, 03:52 PM

Now it's over; I'll say this, Matt Thornton has come back to my good graces. That was clutch.

WhiteSox5187

09-15-2012, 03:52 PM

Minnesota is worse though.

thomas35forever

09-15-2012, 03:52 PM

Matt has never had a bigger outing in his seven seasons with us. Way to bail our closer out.

Soxman219

09-15-2012, 03:53 PM

I'm scared for Reed right now.

MtGrnwdSoxFan

09-15-2012, 03:53 PM

We may have to re-think our closer situation. Reed looked hideous.

Thankfully, though, Thornton was there to save his bacon...and probably our season.

Great start by Liriano, and we're still at minimum a game up going into Sunday!

18!

tony1972

09-15-2012, 03:53 PM

Now it's over; I'll say this, Matt Thornton has come back to my good graces. That was clutch.

Why wasn't Matt Thornton bunting?:redneck

soxnut1018

09-15-2012, 03:53 PM

At this point, no win is ugly. Great job by Thornton. I hope Robin uses him more in big situations (instead of minor league guys like Septimo).

Tragg

09-15-2012, 03:55 PM

Good job by Ventura getting Reed out of there quickly.

And excellent work by Thornton. We need him on his game.

WhiteSoxOnly

09-15-2012, 03:55 PM

This bullpen is atrocious.

Well...one guy was today, the other two not so atrocious.

Frater Perdurabo

09-15-2012, 03:56 PM

Well...one guy was today, the other two not so atrocious.

Crain and Thornton were masterful.

voodoochile

09-15-2012, 03:56 PM

Another great team effort with special tip of the hat to PK and Mr. Liriano. Also, nice job by Hudson in the 9th to get the insurance run. He's been a solid bench player when healthy this year.

Matt was getting really squeezed there, but he he pitched over that .. Reed makes me so nervous that i can barely watch and i think that Robin feels the same way .. i'm so glad that he had the guts to go against the grain and go get the kid out of there .. also,i wish we could play the twins more, except for Reed, just now,these games have been fairly easy wins .. nice job by Liriano .. watching the tigers right now .. praying for a loss there ..

Matt has never had a bigger outing in his seven seasons with us. Way to bail our closer out.

This was as clutch an outing for him since putting on the Sox uniform.

SI1020

09-15-2012, 03:58 PM

Crain and Thornton were masterful. Crain's ball was both lively and uhittable. Thornton has taken some criticism the last couple of years, but overall I say he is one of KW's best acquisitions. Great job today Matt.

PeteWard

09-15-2012, 03:58 PM

Good news: Liraino amazing and the Sox could be 2 up if the Clevelands come through. :D:

Bad news: It's Sep 15 and the Sox most definitely do not have a closer. :o:

voodoochile

09-15-2012, 03:58 PM

Crain and Thornton were masterful.

They both have been looking good the last few outings in particular. Last night I honestly got the impression Crain is going to have a great end to the season. He looked like the guy we expect him to be for the first time.

Agree
We need the other top relievers in the high leverage spots. Reed needs to come in with the bases empty.

MtGrnwdSoxFan

09-15-2012, 04:12 PM

Agree
We need the other top relievers in the high leverage spots. Reed needs to come in with the bases empty.

He came in with the bases empty today. He wasted zero time filling them up.

FielderJones

09-15-2012, 04:19 PM

Reed needs to have a dispensation from the fine for giving up a hit or HR on an 0-2 pitch. He cannot be allowed to nibble and hope the batter gets himself out on a ball outside the strike zone. He has walked too many batters this year that he had 0-2.

Soxman219

09-15-2012, 04:22 PM

Maybe Reed does better when it's a one-run save instead of a three-run one.

Tragg

09-15-2012, 04:23 PM

He came in with the bases empty today. He wasted zero time filling them up.

Good thing then he didn't come in with them filled.

guillensdisciple

09-15-2012, 04:23 PM

Maybe Reed does better when it's a one-run save instead of a three-run one.

Dude has a high 4 era. He is not good at all.

delben91

09-15-2012, 04:29 PM

Dude has a high 4 era. He is not good at all.

Perhaps a slight overstatement? Guy does have 20 some saves. Can't be that horrible.

LoveYourSuit

09-15-2012, 04:35 PM

Just win baby. Doesn't matter how it looked.

Four more wins for a winning season.

Lip

Lip, you say this every season.

Who gives a **** about a winning season.

Win the division.

amsteel

09-15-2012, 04:39 PM

Reed had no business being in this game. Crain was CRUISING.

I hate the save statistic.

TDog

09-15-2012, 04:39 PM

We may have to re-think our closer situation. Reed looked hideous.

Thankfully, though, Thornton was there to save his bacon...and probably our season.

Great start by Liriano, and we're still at minimum a game up going into Sunday!

18!

If you designate a closer, you are going to have blown saves, unless your closer has a phenomenal season, as Valverde did last year, although I remember a game against the Dodgers where Valverde loaded the bases with one out while protecting a two-run lead. What impressed me was that Ventura didn't leave Reed in the game because he is the closer.

If you want to designate a closer, because you don't believe a team can win closing by committee, although the Giants are doing just fine and quite successful with it since removing Casilla from the role, I doubt that you are going to want to replace him with Thornton, who was great in closing out the game today. You probably aren't going to want to go with Myers or Crain. Jones has the best stuff coming out of the bullpen, and he hasn't been as inconsistent as other relievers.

I have no problem with closing by committee, though, which is what Ventura effectively did today.

The White Sox should have scored more than five runs today, although you don't see that from the hit total. The runner at third with one out in the eighth and the runner who was at second with nobody out in the ninth after a run already came in would have looked especially good on the scoreboard in the bottom of the ninth.

Reed didn't blow the save. Nor did Thornton. (When you follow games on MLB's Gameday, they tell you there has been a scoring play, but not what it is, so I had no idea for a very long nervous moment if the Sox had lost when Morneau's "in play run(s)" popped up.) The Twins just got the two hits today, their major being gone.

It would have been cool if Liriano could have pitched a no-hitter for the White Sox against the Twins a season after pitching a no-hitter for the Twins against the White Sox. But under the circumstances of pitching while not even in the rotation, it was quite the strong effort.

thomas35forever

09-15-2012, 04:44 PM

Lip, you say this every season.

Who gives a **** about a winning season.

Win the division.
Thank you. This season, losing the division after spending so many days in first should be unacceptable.

Tragg

09-15-2012, 04:47 PM

who gives a **** about a winning season.

Win the division.

+1

ElevenUp

09-15-2012, 04:48 PM

I had to switch channels after Reed loaded the bases. I was afraid of what my kids would see if the Twins had come back to win this game. Thankfully Thornton came through. Let's go Tribe!

A rookie who has 26 or 27 saves (whatever it is) is a bum? And the youngest bum in mlb history at that?

Might want to settle down and rethink that. Without Reed the Sox aren't in this thing, plain and simple. He's got the look. And the guts. Doesn't always pitch good but I'll take my chances with him.

October26

09-15-2012, 04:59 PM

I watched this game with my Dad (85 years old). He was curious about what a WSI game thread was like and he enjoyed reading all of the posts in the game thread.

My dad was calm the entire game and really enjoyed seeing the great pitching performance by Liriano. And the Sox offense was good enough today. When Reed started walking people in the 9th, I started pacing. My father said to me: "You need to calm down or you're not going to make it until October!" HA! I know dad, I know.

Anyway, all is well that ends well; I'm really happy to see the Sox get the win today. :D: Keep on winning, White Sox!

GlassSox

09-15-2012, 05:01 PM

Liriano really stepped up and Thornton earned a lot of redemption. Go Cleveland!!!:bandance:

+1 Liriano & Thornton showed up big time today.

TheOldRoman

09-15-2012, 05:14 PM

Maybe Reed does better when it's a one-run save instead of a three-run one.I honestly think that's true. I don't have the numbers, but from what I've seen this year, I am more comfortable with him coming in with a one-run lead than two or three. I'm not saying he has been lock-down by any means, but when he gets bigger leads I think he either loses some concentration or figures he can afford to let guys chase pitches.

But yeah, horrible performance by Reed. Thornton was huge coming in and ending that game. When the bases were loaded, I immediately though of Bobby's disaster in Minnesota in 2010. He came in with a three-run lead and finished the game, but walked off the field without having recorded an out.:whiner:

soltrain21

09-15-2012, 05:17 PM

Lip, you say this every season.

Who gives a **** about a winning season.

Win the division.

I think it's part of the doom and gloom demeanor about everything.

slavko

09-15-2012, 05:20 PM

Good job by Ventura getting Reed out of there quickly.

And excellent work by Thornton. We need him on his game.

Against the book, for sure. Risking damage to Reed's tender psyche. Had to be done, took guts for RV to do it.

Maybe Reed does better when it's a one-run save instead of a three-run one.

We should consider the effect of odd and even digit leads at all times. Consult the horoscope of the closer and line it up with a plumb bob. Some days an even number lead might not hold the closer's interest. It's not like we're in a pennant race or anything. :D:

Nate Jones has better stuff and some guts too. Needs to work on his control, but that's improving. Next year, Nate.

TheOldRoman

09-15-2012, 05:32 PM

Oh, I forgot to mention it's good to have Dunn back. Hopefully the oblique is at 100% and he doesn't re-injure it.

GlassSox

09-15-2012, 05:35 PM

Oh, I forgot to mention it's good to have Dunn back. Hopefully the oblique is at 100% and he doesn't re-injure it.

Yes he looked pretty good today

downstairs

09-15-2012, 05:47 PM

Ugh. Looks like Detroit has a perfect game through 5. 5-0 over Cleveland.

Its a no-hitter for sure, looking at the box score, seems perfect too.

downstairs

09-15-2012, 05:49 PM

Never mind, its just a no-hitter for DET right now. One HBP. Facing the minimum thus far.

Ugh. Come on Cleveland!

amsteel

09-15-2012, 05:51 PM

Cleveland:Detroit::Sox:KC is patently false, unfortunately.

JB98

09-15-2012, 05:55 PM

I've criticized Ventura quite a bit this week, but let me join the chorus of people praising him for giving Reed the quick hook. GREAT move, Robin.

There are some managers who are stubborn about the "This guy is my closer" stuff. The Sox can't afford to stick with struggling players right now. You gotta go with the guy who gives you the best chance to win. It became apparent Reed was not that guy today, so our manager wisely got his ass outta there.

Excellent work by Thornton. Really nice to see Liriano come through. He's capable of dominating a lineup when he throws strikes.

Lip Man 1

09-15-2012, 07:14 PM

Love:

And as you know no team in baseball history EVER made the playoffs with a .500 or a losing record.

The bottom line first objective is to have a winning season, then you start climbing the ladder on everything else.

And to be clear as I say EVERY year (obviously you missed it) having a winning season is not the end all to me but it is the minimum I expect from the franchise. At least at the end of the year if you've won more games than you lost, there's something worthwhile to it...again that's at the very least.

This has come up before just last week, and I said how I felt (obviously you missed it) that after leading the division for over 100 days it will be a big disappointment if they DON'T win the division because of their own folly...that being said, the fact that this club was picked to lose 90+ games by many publications and the fact that they aren't and are probably going to have at a MINIMUM a winning season, is certainly worth noting and commenting on.

I can't say it any clearer (and you'll see it again next season if they are in a position to do so...)

Lip

KyWhiSoxFan

09-15-2012, 07:25 PM

I'm as nervous as anyone when Reed has come in the last month ... but in the grand scheme of things, it's a long season and it has clearly gotten to him. He's young and inexperienced and it is showing. He's not the biggest bum.

Going forward, he needs to be used more expeditiously (that is, less frequent) and given a rest. Give the ball to Myers.

Reeds also needs to develop a better secondary pitch.

voodoochile

09-15-2012, 07:26 PM

I'm with Lip. First objective, have a winning season. Second objective make the playoffs. Third objective win the whole thing. I've always felt that way.

TDog

09-15-2012, 07:36 PM

I'm with Lip. First objective, have a winning season. Second objective make the playoffs. Third objective win the whole thing. I've always felt that way.

Still, if both the Tigers and White Sox were to finish with a losing record, which is less possible today than it was yesterday, someone with a losing record would have made the postseason, just as there could have been a sub-.500 team make the postseason in 1994 had the strike not ended the season. A barely .500 division winner won the World Series in 2006. A sub-.500 division winner would have a better shot at winning the World Series than a 90-win team missing the wild card.

But I too appreciate a winning record.

SCCWS

09-15-2012, 07:37 PM

Another crisp victory marked by strong starting pitching, effective and efficient relief work (other than Reed making all of us ill), timely hitting, and good fielding, keeps us in first place at least through Monday's game.

Huge 4-6-3 DP induced by Thornton in the ninth. Maybe the biggest play of the year so far.

I think if you do the math, a WS loss tomorrow and on monday and Tiger wins both days puts tigers in first

DumpJerry

09-15-2012, 07:44 PM

I think if you do the math, a WS loss tomorrow and on monday and Tiger wins both days puts tigers in first
But that would be after Monday's game. The poster said through Monday's game.

The Immigrant

09-15-2012, 08:03 PM

Beating those bums never gets old.

ChiSoxGal85

09-15-2012, 09:08 PM

I watched this game with my Dad (85 years old). He was curious about what a WSI game thread was like and he enjoyed reading all of the posts in the game thread.

My dad was calm the entire game and really enjoyed seeing the great pitching performance by Liriano. And the Sox offense was good enough today. When Reed started walking people in the 9th, I started pacing. My father said to me: "You need to calm down or you're not going to make it until October!" HA! I know dad, I know.

Anyway, all is well that ends well; I'm really happy to see the Sox get the win today. :D: Keep on winning, White Sox!
:rolling: Your dad is a riot!

I was out doing dog agility today, so I missed the game live, but I managed to avoid hearing the score - so when I got home I watched it on DVR. No game thread, though. :whiner:

Wow, Liriano almost no-hits his ex-teammates! And when Reed started imploding, I had to fast forward (that's my equivalent to your pacing, October26). Then Matt came in and saves the day. He made me nervous earlier this season, but he seems to have it together right now.

Didn't see any comment about the Big Donkey, but it looked like he returned to form nicely today. Glad to see Adam back.

Moses_Scurry

09-15-2012, 09:35 PM

Question about Brett Myers and his option:

I know he has a certain number of games finished that results in his 10 or 12 million option for 2013 being picked up. Does that only include regular season or does it also include the post-season? I'm all for letting him finish the season and playoffs (if necessary) as the closer, but I don't know how close he is to the magic number. To me winning is more important, but it's not my money. I could see Kenny trying to have him in the rotation (if they cross the games finished threshold) next year with Floyd out the door and Reed back as the closer.

Foulke You

09-15-2012, 09:59 PM

Question about Brett Myers and his option:

I know he has a certain number of games finished that results in his 10 or 12 million option for 2013 being picked up. Does that only include regular season or does it also include the post-season? I'm all for letting him finish the season and playoffs (if necessary) as the closer, but I don't know how close he is to the magic number. To me winning is more important, but it's not my money. I could see Kenny trying to have him in the rotation (if they cross the games finished threshold) next year with Floyd out the door and Reed back as the closer.

I like the pitching depth Myers has added but I really hope we don't get stuck paying him 12 million next year. It's going to be harder to bring back AJ, Youk, or Peavy if we are on the hook for 12 million on Myers. I'm all for doing whatever it takes this year but if it can be avoided, they should try to avoid having him close.

LoveYourSuit

09-15-2012, 10:32 PM

A rookie who has 26 or 27 saves (whatever it is) is a bum? And the youngest bum in mlb history at that?

Might want to settle down and rethink that. Without Reed the Sox aren't in this thing, plain and simple. He's got the look. And the guts. Doesn't always pitch good but I'll take my chances with him.

Please don't be one of those fans who is fooled by the stupid save stat.

LoveYourSuit

09-15-2012, 10:35 PM

I'm with Lip. First objective, have a winning season. Second objective make the playoffs. Third objective win the whole thing. I've always felt that way.

Felt this way before '05.

kittle42

09-15-2012, 10:39 PM

Felt this way before '05.

Right. Does any fanbase really care if their team wins 82 or 80 if the team doesn't make the playoffs?

asindc

09-15-2012, 10:40 PM

Right. Does any fanbase really care if their team wins 82 or 80 if the team doesn't make the playoffs?

I do.

Lip Man 1

09-15-2012, 11:15 PM

Make it two.

Lip

voodoochile

09-16-2012, 12:58 AM

Me 3.

Don't see what 2005 has to do with it either. If anything that title made me less hyper about winning the whole thing. I got my one. The rest is gravy. Yes, I want lots of gravy, but I'm less concerned if there's only meat and potatoes...

kufram

09-16-2012, 03:41 AM

I didn't see the game but I read that Thornton is a hero and Reed is a bum. Knee jerk reactions are rarely worth anything. Not long ago no one trusted Thornton to run a bath. We won the game... when I say "we" I mean the team, not one or two players. Reed will be a hero again this season. Liriano was not some people's choice to pitch today. He didn't do badly.

We're settin ourselves up to win this thing... now we just need to do it.

October26

Your Dad is a wise man.

Chez

09-16-2012, 08:29 AM

Our starting pitching seems to have perked up recently. If they can get the games to the core guys in the bullpen (including Reed) in the 7th inning, we win.

SCCWS

09-16-2012, 09:13 AM

Please don't be one of those fans who is fooled by the stupid save stat.

I think when you talk about relief pitching, stats like .era, w/l ten to be meaningless. But I don't think the save is a stupid stat. Closing games has much more pressure than setting up the closer. We have seen Matt Thornton excel as a set up but struggle as a closer. Looking at Jones and Reed, why did Robin choose Reed to close? Probably personality figures in more for closers than most positions.
Reed may never be a big-time closer. But I would guess Robin feels he is most suited right now and if he fails we will see Myers down the stretch.

Mohoney

09-16-2012, 10:31 AM

But I would guess Robin feels he is most suited right now and if he fails we will see Myers down the stretch.

There are only 18 games left. Make the move now.

October26

09-16-2012, 11:56 AM

:rolling: Your dad is a riot!

I was out doing dog agility today, so I missed the game live, but I managed to avoid hearing the score - so when I got home I watched it on DVR. No game thread, though. :whiner:

Wow, Liriano almost no-hits his ex-teammates! And when Reed started imploding, I had to fast forward (that's my equivalent to your pacing, October26). Then Matt came in and saves the day. He made me nervous earlier this season, but he seems to have it together right now.

Didn't see any comment about the Big Donkey, but it looked like he returned to form nicely today. Glad to see Adam back.

I didn't see the game but I read that Thornton is a hero and Reed is a bum. Knee jerk reactions are rarely worth anything. Not long ago no one trusted Thornton to run a bath. We won the game... when I say "we" I mean the team, not one or two players. Reed will be a hero again this season. Liriano was not some people's choice to pitch today. He didn't do badly.

We're settin ourselves up to win this thing... now we just need to do it.

October26

Your Dad is a wise man.

Thank you; I missed you both in the game thread yesterday. :grouphug:

ChiSoxGal85, you mentioned Adam in your post. Yes, it was great to see him back in the lineup yesterday. He looked good.

And you're absolutely right, kufram, the Sox are in a position to win this thing. Thanks for reminding me that there is nothing like September baseball when the Sox are in the pennant chase. Unless, of course, the Sox are playing into late October. :tongue: GO SOX!

SI1020

09-16-2012, 12:12 PM

Well there are at least 4 of us. As a kid I thought a winning season was my Sox fan birthright. The difference between 82 wins and 80 is a big one to me.

SOXSINCE'70

09-16-2012, 12:49 PM

This bullpen is atrocious.

Addison Reed,you are beginning to concern me.Your control lately has been...well, for lack of a better word,bad.:o:

SOXSINCE'70

09-16-2012, 12:54 PM

At this point, no win is ugly. Great job by Thornton. I hope Robin uses him more in big situations (instead of minor league guys like Septimo).

Just my 2 cents worth: Brett Myers and Jesse Crain have been through this ( a pennant drive) as well.I wouldn't mind seeing either
of them close games at this time of year.Reed's wildness concerns me.A lot.

SOXSINCE'70

09-16-2012, 01:01 PM

A rookie who has 26 or 27 saves (whatever it is) is a bum? And the youngest bum in mlb history at that?

Might want to settle down and rethink that. Without Reed the Sox aren't in this thing, plain and simple. He's got the look. And the guts. Doesn't always pitch good but I'll take my chances with him.

May need a day or 2 of rest.Dead arm period?? I have no clue what's going on with Reed.I only know that right now, the Sox need wins,pretty or not.

JB98

09-16-2012, 01:06 PM

Just my 2 cents worth: Brett Myers and Jesse Crain have been through this ( a pennant drive) as well.I wouldn't mind seeing either
of them close games at this time of year.Reed's wildness concerns me.A lot.

Here's the funny thing about Reed's wildness - he routinely gets ahead in the count, then ends up walking guys. He had Revere 0-2 yesterday and lost him. He had Willingham 1-2 and lost him.

It doesn't seem like Reed can't throw a strike. It seems more like he just doesn't want to throw a strike. That baffles me given the stuff he has.

He is just having the growing pains of a big league closer. He will be fine.

First two games in this series have been great. So great, I almost forgot to say:

:winner

A sweep would be very nice today!

hawkjt

09-17-2012, 11:47 AM

Reed had not pitched since Monday, he was not sharp,but it is not like they hammered him...two walks and a ducksnort is not enough to abandon the season long closer...when he did not even blow the save in the end.

Good move by Robin going and getting him,but I have total confidence that Reed will be back out there today,and beyond. The kid has the guts of a burglar. And eye of the Tiger,as they say.

Fans are so quick to panic....he has blown 3 saves all year,and fans are ready to throw him overboard. Settle down,strap it down,and enjoy the bumpy but victorious ride on the Reed rollercoaster.