(08-03-2015 03:58 PM)Brian37 Wrote: Oslwald acted alone, there is no such thing as bigfoot, the moon landing was not faked.

Bigfoot killed Oswald to keep him from revealing the moon landing hoax.

WAKE UP SHEEPLE

How do we know that you're not an agent of the reptiloids trying to confuse us?

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.

How do we know that you're not an agent of the reptiloids trying to confuse us?

He's part of the Big Science conspiracies. You know chemtrails and vaccines and the mind controlling weather device they use to fake climate change. How would he even have time to attend the reptoid meetings let alone participate in their world domination schemes.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote: America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense

(08-03-2015 04:39 PM)Free Thought Wrote: How do we know that you're not an agent of the reptiloids trying to confuse us?

He's part of the Big Science conspiracies. You know chemtrails and vaccines and the mind controlling weather device they use to fake climate change. How would he even have time to attend the reptoid meetings let alone participate in their world domination schemes.

(08-03-2015 05:28 PM)Revenant77x Wrote: He's part of the Big Science conspiracies. You know chemtrails and vaccines and the mind controlling weather device they use to fake climate change. How would he even have time to attend the reptoid meetings let alone participate in their world domination schemes.

(08-03-2015 04:39 PM)Free Thought Wrote: How do we know that you're not an agent of the reptiloids trying to confuse us?

He's part of the Big Science conspiracies. You know chemtrails and vaccines and the mind controlling weather device they use to fake climate change. How would he even have time to attend the reptoid meetings let alone participate in their world domination schemes.

That's just what he wants you to think.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.

Cascade failure. Once it starts, each subsequent structural failure only adds more weight to the mass crashing down on the floors below, accelerating the rate of failure.

But it's good to know we have such erudite and enlightened structural engineers gracing us with their presence on the forums. Oh wait...

ROFL

Like physics has to work according to what people say. What does the Conservation of Momentum have to do with collapse time? What about Newton's Third Law?

Every level must be strong enough to support the combined weights above.

No, that's not how buildings are designed or built. The weight is borne be the skeleton of the building, the floors only support themselves and their working load. When the floor(s) above are dropped on a floor, it is torn from the frame. This weakens the frame and the whole structure. Cascading collapse is the accurate analysis.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.

(08-03-2015 08:30 PM)Chas Wrote: No, that's not how buildings are designed or built. The weight is borne be the skeleton of the building, the floors only support themselves and their working load. When the floor(s) above are dropped on a floor, it is torn from the frame. This weakens the frame and the whole structure. Cascading collapse is the accurate analysis.

Indeed, one begins to wonder about how much psikeyhackr really thinks of knows about buildings and their myriad ways fo being constructed/built.

(08-03-2015 02:55 PM)psikeyhackr Wrote: Like physics has to work according to what people say.

What? Or are you poorly saying that our understanding of physics is still only 'just a working model' or reality, type thing?

(08-03-2015 02:55 PM)psikeyhackr Wrote: What does the Conservation of Momentum have to do with collapse time? What about Newton's Third Law?

I think Chas succinctly answered this bit.

(08-03-2015 02:55 PM)psikeyhackr Wrote: Every level must be strong enough to support the combined weights above.

While technically true (especially of 'shorter' or older structures) modern high-rise building/complexes do not actually work this way.

Again Chas has pointed out that modern tall buildings have a 'frame' or 'skeleton' that the floors are more 'built into' than the whole thing is a sort of 'layered stack'.

Cascade failure. Once it starts, each subsequent structural failure only adds more weight to the mass crashing down on the floors below, accelerating the rate of failure.

But it's good to know we have such erudite and enlightened structural engineers gracing us with their presence on the forums. Oh wait...

ROFL

Like physics has to work according to what people say. What does the Conservation of Momentum have to do with collapse time? What about Newton's Third Law?

Every level must be strong enough to support the combined weights above. But since we are not told the weight of steel and concrete on every level we don't know the minimum strength necessary at each level. So any talk about a "cascade failure" is based on nothing but FAITH and merely BELIEVING what you see without any evidence of UNDERSTANDING.

Let's see you make a multi-level self supporting model that can do this "cascade" you speak of while damaging the components doing the support in the process. Doing damage takes energy and the only available source is the Kinetic Energy of the falling mass so it must slow down in the process of doing the damage.

The building was supported by a skeleton of steel I-beams, designed to distribute and bear the load of the structure. They were built heavy enough to more than adequately handle expected loads, such as from minor tremors, severe storm winds, or even a small impact (like a Cesna). They were never intended to absorb a Boeing 747 impact.

So the impact itself is not only going to directly destroy and weaken the support structure around the few floors it struck, the impact itself would send a shock reverberating through the entire structure, stressing the load bearing capabilities of the entire structure. Now on top of this you have the entire mass of a Boeing 747 added to the structure, the shock from the impact, and the heat from the burning jet fuel causing the remaining supports to weaken due to thermal failure.

So once a failure started and a floor collapsed, you would have all of the unsupported weight (some 14 odd floors and a commercial airliner) crash down to the next floor. Now all of that weight, plus the mass from an additional floor, comes crashing down and impacts the next. This impact causes another failure, adding even more unsupported mass, causing a greater impact, causing the next failure to happen even faster; repeat until you reach bottom.

Every failure adds more mass, which causes a greater impact, which further speeds up the next failure; until each is happening within fractions of a second. That amount of mass simply wasn't going to be stopped by anything less than the surface of the earth itself.

(08-03-2015 02:55 PM)psikeyhackr Wrote: Like physics has to work according to what people say. What does the Conservation of Momentum have to do with collapse time? What about Newton's Third Law?

Oh joy. Did you even pass high-school physics?

"Formally stated, Newton's third law is: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. The statement means that in every interaction, there is a pair of forces acting on the two interacting objects. The size of the forces on the first object equals the size of the force on the second object."

So whenever 14 floors and a Boeing 747 drops 10 feet after the structure below them collapses, all of that mass has potential energy that turns into kinetic energy with gravity. That force acts upon the floor below, increasing it's load, and causing it to fail as well; which repeats with increasing mass, force, and speed until the reaction finally stops at the bottom.

What is it about the Third Law gives you the impression that this didn't happen? That it couldn't happen?

(08-03-2015 02:55 PM)psikeyhackr Wrote: Every level must be strong enough to support the combined weights above.

Depends on how the structure is designed to distribute the weight. Regardless, whenever you interfere with that design (like for instance, crashing a commercial airliner into a building), it's load bearing capabilities are compromised. And once again, that says nothing about the added mass of said commercial airliner, the heat from it's burning fuel, and the force of the impact from both the initial crash and subsequent collapses.

(08-03-2015 02:55 PM)psikeyhackr Wrote: But since we are not told the weight of steel and concrete on every level we don't know the minimum strength necessary at each level. So any talk about a "cascade failure" is based on nothing but FAITH and merely BELIEVING what you see without any evidence of UNDERSTANDING.

I'm sorry, but who's mouthing off without any evidence here? Who seems to lack even a child's understanding of structural integrity? You speak with the credulity of someone who's never played with LEGO's, lincoln logs, or Jenga...

^This shows a greater understanding of what happened than you do.

(08-03-2015 02:55 PM)psikeyhackr Wrote: Let's see you make a multi-level self supporting model that can do this "cascade" you speak of while damaging the components doing the support in the process.

How about YOU show me a building that would not be damaged by the mass of 14 stories and a Boeing 747 falling on it from 10 feet.

The building was only designed to hold so much weight you stupid fuck. The added mass of the 747, combined with thermal failure of the support structure around it from the burning jet fuel (the what would weaken the steel, lowering the amount it weight it can support before failing). Once the steel weakened enough from the heat, that it could no longer support the additional weight from the 747, it collapsed. Now all of that mass has kinetic energy added to it from gravity and the fall. This added force from the impact is enough to overwhelm the load bearing capabilities of the next floor, which also collapses. It's mass gets added to the collapse, generating a greater impact from even more falling unsupported mass, causing another failure. Repeat until you reach bottom.

I'm amazed that for someone professing such an intuitive understanding of physics, you seem incapable of understanding this.

(08-03-2015 02:55 PM)psikeyhackr Wrote: Doing damage takes energy and the only available source is the Kinetic Energy of the falling mass so it must slow down in the process of doing the damage.

How much is a bowling ball going to be slowed if it's dropped through a sheet of paper?

Once again, you had the mass of 14+ floors and a fucking 747 come crashing down. Once the potential energy of all that mass was turned into kinetic energy by gravity, what makes you think the remaining building (already weakened by the initial impact and under increased strain from the added weight) would be able to withstand the force of that impact and stop it?

As a random side note, the buildings were designed to pancake like that. They built them knowing they would one day come down, and they needed them to be able to come down without wiping out half of lower Manhattan.

Sorry, I don't have a link for that. I got that from an interview I saw immediately after 9/11 with one of the original building engineers. Poor guy was in tears taking about it, but he stepped through what he thought happened and why the ultimately collapsed.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost

(08-03-2015 11:13 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote: I'm sorry, but who's mouthing off without any evidence here? Who seems to lack even a child's understanding of structural integrity? You speak with the credulity of someone who's never played with LEGO's, lincoln logs, or Jenga...

How about YOU show me a building that would not be damaged by the mass of 14 stories and a Boeing 747 falling on it from 10 feet.

I'm amazed that for someone professing such an intuitive understanding of physics, you seem incapable of understanding this.

How much is a bowling ball going to be slowed if it's dropped through a sheet of paper?

Now get back under your rock dumbass.

A single floor assembly outside the core was 750 tons. The aircraft was less than 200 tons, so the weight of the plane compared to the weight of the upper portion of the north tower was irrelevant.

But it was less than 15 stories against 90 stories that had to get stronger and heavier all of the way down in order to be capable of supporting the weight above.

What do you have besides condescending talk moron? You talk about dropping a bowling ball onto something with a completely different material and structure. I dropped multiple levels onto multiple levels of the same structure which is what had to happen with the north tower. What happened on 9/11 that was like your stacked wood falling over? They would not even damage themselves when they hit the floor.