What is the Zumba-scandal all about?

A female entrepreneur was indicted on more than a hundred counts of criminal activities, including tax evasion, violation of privacy rights of individuals and operating a brothel. Her alleged partner in crime was arraigned of almost sixty misdemeanor counts, including promoting the illegal activities of a brothel and violation of privacy rights, taping brothel clients without their knowledge.

James Barker @ freedigitalphotos.net

So what exactly is a scandal?

According to my dictionary a scandal is ‘a disgraceful event’.

~~

Coming to mind is Lucius Annaeus Seneca’s opinion about the Truth: “The truth is hidden behind a smokescreen of opinions. Considered to be the truth today could be proved as fraud tomorrow.”

Surely this goes for scandals as well: “A scandal is hidden behind a smokescreen of opinions. Considered to be a scandal today could be proved tomorrow as not-at-all-a-scandal.” Just think of divorces and illegitimate children – until only a few decades ago they were disgusting scandals forcing religious ministers and all layman assistants to resign from their vocations; nowadays they are simply the order of the day, although still categorized as ‘sad and unfortunate turn of events’.

photostock @ freedigitalphotos.net

Is operating a brothel a scandal?

Let’s focus for a moment on brothels.

Suppose this was a legal business, would it be a scandal to buy the services rendered?

Suppose men (and women) were allowed to admit their need for those services rendered by brothels, just like people admit (and practice) their need to play rugby, tennis, squash, or to swim, sunbathe or sweat in a gym. Do we realize that all activities encourage the secretion of well-needed chemicals in our bodies and that we are in fact addicted to many of those chemicals? (Hallo adrenalin and serotonin junkies! At this stage of my life I prefer dopamine, secreted when I make love. But I am not operating a brothel, because I don’t want to make ‘loving’ my job as this will encourage the secession of other chemicals that may make me feel tired and miserable.)

Suppose people were not born with an urge to seize and possess the objects they like/love?

Suppose ADULTS were able to accept other ADULTS as free, independent individuals with distinctive likes and dislikes?

Suppose lucidity reigned and scales of values were no longer necessary (sic Camus), would we be bothered when some of our fellowmen spend time in a brothel instead of chasing, hitting and kicking balls of all kinds?

imagerymajestic @ freedigitalphotos.net

Is using a toilet a scandal?

But then, through another pair of glasses we could compare visits to a brothel with visits to a toilet. Then we could say ‘eeuuwww!’. But could we call visits to the toilet a scandal? Is it not the most common human activity? Some people suffer constipation, or chronic diarrhea, relieving themselves discreetly or discourteously from malodorous gases twenty-four hours per day; others have dry bladders, others have wet bladders, they are all free to use the toilet whenever they want. (Please note, a toilet – a specific place meant for the specific purpose of relieving oneself of a specific need.) Do we regard those users of toilets as ‘animals’ or as ‘ungodly’? Not? Now why do we detest people relieving themselves of excessive body-production in a brothel?

(Oh boy, how could I forgot – seminal fluid contains potential LIFE! Maybe this is the scandal: killing potential Life… Oh boy! Then we are all disgraceful persons! (Ladies, throw away those birth control pills; Gentleman, throw away those rubber contraptions. Please, let’s stop being disgraceful and allow Life to come to Life.)

I remember walking through De Wallen, Amsterdam in 1999, shaken to the core. How many windmills have to hit a woman into a ‘profession’ like that, I pondered for exactly three and a half days. Then, all of a sudden, I remembered the pros and cons of being a doctor, a nurse, a teacher, a mechanic, and I realized that people have distinctive and unintelligible talents and aspirations and that Time and Opportunity are in fact forcing them into careers they may or may not enjoy.

So personally I don’t regard the running of a brothel or the using of its services as a scandal. Those who operate it are facing risks and challenges just like any other entrepreneur, and those who enjoy the services rendered have to cope with the consequential pros and cons just like any other consumer of goods and services.

BTW: Since I’ve grabbed the opportunity to flip through a couple of those notorious magazines freely available in Holland – they are illegal in my country - I also realized that those 'girls in the windows' are not any other Alices living next door;. They are able to do things most women refuse to do and therefore cannot do. (Just for the record, I will not even try competing with the most incompetent of them all, just like I would not try removing my friend’s septic appendix or any nonfunctional valves in my car's engine.)

"Cobbler, stick to your last!"

Tom Clare @ freedigitalphotos.net

Is it a scandal to enrich oneself at the cost of someone else?

But let’s say a scandal is ‘enriching oneself at the cost of someone else’, then maybe we could say visiting a brothel is a scandal because we are spending money, time and energy at the cost of our financial and emotional dependents.

But if this is the case, we are also disgracing ourselves when we pay how-many-dollars just to spend how-many-hours cheering our favorite sportsmen while our dependents sit all alone at home waiting to be considered.

The fact that Judah, the son of Jacob, ‘came in unto’ a harlot who was in fact his clever daughter-in-law, Tamar, was not a scandal. (Genesis 38.) The scandal was that Judah did not obey the law stipulated in Deuteronomy 25:5: “If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger: her husband's brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife, and perform the duty of an husband's brother unto her.”

This was the custom of those days; today we would call such a late husband’s brother a disgraceful bigamist.

sdmania @ freedigitalphotos.net

Is tax evasion a scandal?

Yes, tax evasion is a disgraceful event – a scandal. We should render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's. (And the unblemished objective of this rule is to make all people's lives on this planet save and comfortable.)

But now I remember the story of Abraham, (pronounced Avraham), the father of Judaism. He allegedly lived somewhere between 1976 BCE and 637 BCE in UR - an important Sumerian city-state in ancient Mesopotamia. He was supposed to sacrifice some of his best assets, in other words, pay his taxes, to the king of Ur. This king was seen as half human-half god, the son of Sin (who were in fact the moon) and a human mother. All kings and queens of that time were allegedly sons and daughters of gods, and therefor the followers of Jesus accepted him as the child of a virgin and the son of God without questioning the true possibility of the concept.

Sin (the moon) was the deity of the city Ur, because he provided light at night - the best time to travel with merchandise to inland cities through a desert victimized by the god Marduk (the wind) and swarms of caterpillars. Abraham was not a trader, but a stock-keeper. He didn't need Sin and had no reason to 'buy' Sin's blessings by sacrifice anything to him. He feared the power of Yahweh, who was another deity, punishing sinners with earthquakes and volcanoes. So Abraham refused to ‘pay his taxes’ to Sin and decided to follow the orders of Yahweh. “Leave Ur and trek to Canaan, the Promised Land!” And this was the beginning of modern religion.

A native of Ur rejecting Sin? A native of Ur refusing to render unto Sin (and his representatives on Earth) what was his? What a scandal! It was, In fact, a punishable offence.

In the same time-slot brothels were seen as the temples of the Gods and Goddesses of Love. Prostitutes were like nuns, devoted to their god/goddess. Visits to those brothels were seen as a religious activity.

The point iI want to make: Norms, beliefs and interpretations determine whether something is a scandal or not.

Could it be that our religious orientation determines what we consider to be scandals?

Religion developed during the ages. Today Jesus Christ is the only ‘survivor’ of the ancient half-god-half man concept. According to Christian religion all Christians are considered to be His ‘brothers and sisters’ to become just like him. Christians are therefor supposed to conquer their human nature in order to become ‘godly’. Created in the image of God - (Genesis 1:26 - And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness) - this is not supposed to be difficult. So why would we need the services rendered by a brothel? Or why would we chase balls of all sorts?

Could this be the origin of our current believe that it is our right to demand undivided, loyal faithfulness from the man/woman we love? Believing that we were created in the image of God, why shall we deny our natural tendency to be jealous and possessive?

Fact is, humans are nothing more than glorified animals - in particular glorified primates - sharing the same primary urges: To live, to multiply, to die.” If we call ourselves Believers in God and in his image having the right to judge and condemn, why are we not able to practice the other qualities of God, such as his quality to rise on the evil and on the good and on the just and on the unjust? (Matthew 5:45.) And to love those who accept us for what we are.

"I Am that I Am" was the name God called Himself. Is this not what we call ourselves as well?

Anyway, being a philosopher all my life, questioning established customs, being in revolt against everything that seems to be senseless and unfair according to my personal perception of sensible and fair, THIS WAS MY THOUGHTS WHILE I read fpherj48’S synopsis of the Kennebunk, Maine, Zumba Scandal.

E. O. Wilson ~ "The essence of humanity's spiritual dilemma is that we evolved genetically to accept one truth and discovered another. Is there a way to erase the dilemma, to resolve the contradictions between the transcendentalist and the empiricist world views?"

THE LAST PUBLIC EXECUTION IN AMERICA ~ August 14, 1936 @ http://www.geocities.com/lastpublichang/

The real shocking truth

“…. members of the quiet and lovely Kennebuck community, were at best shocked and at worse, mortified and disgusted…. Little did they know initially, that the very worst was yet to come. Numerous reliable sources announced the existence of the meticulous records kept by The Entrepreneur, filled with information in minute detail of every client, for every visit in 18 months. There exists a Client List that has been cleared by more than one Judge for publication. Every name and address of every client is to be published....yes, meaning printed in all things readable to anyone who cares to read it…”

I almost fell off my chair. Are we still living in ancient times where violators of the law have to be stoned in public? Though not with rocks, but with words and outspoken opinions printed on the pages of newspapers and magazines?

The general response of the community: "Every other criminal has their name listed in the papers, why should these criminals be any different? They don't deserve any special protection." The public has a right to know who these shameful men are!"

But wait a minute! Exactly what is the PURPOSE of punishing criminals by publishing their names in papers?

Is it to please scandalmongers eager to find delight in the abasement of others?

Is it to dump innocent wives, girlfriends and children into shock, disappointment and shame?

Is it to demonstrate how law-offenders are to be stoned in public in a modern way?

Is it to teach violators of the law a lesson or two they will never-ever forget?

Or Is it to encourage people to protect themselves against sources of danger and misfortune

and to compensate for losses suffered.

If the latter two is the purpose, then publishing the names of secondary offenders is not at all recommended.

To my relief there ARE people thinking that a little mercy would be in order. "I don't see why publishing their names is necessary. This will be very bad for these men." (Although the vast majority of those nurturing this thought are men. So why does women have a wish to see those men's heads on a platter. (Perhaps to be discussed in a separate hub.)

PURPOSE?

posterize @ freedigitalphotos.net

Appropriate punishment for secondary offenders

So what would be the appropriate punishment for those so-called disgraceful men who were for some reason or another compelled to buy the illegal services of a brothel?

What about giving each of them a fine – X amount to be paid for buying illegal services, but No Amount to be paid if turning state's evidence. (Maybe some of those poor men were the victims of hateful and incompetent partners. Then this sad event might as well be the perfect opportunity to start a new life, evidently in another town where scandalmongers can’t complicate their lives.)

Comments

No HTML is allowed in comments, but URLs will be hyperlinked. Comments are not for promoting your articles or other sites.

sending

Author

Martie Coetser 24 months agofrom South Africa

Exactly! The worse of all - we can not change the trend of events. Have a good day, Robin!

Robin 24 months agofrom Cape Town South Africa

The trouble with war is that it really only serves the interests of the cabal since they usually fund both sides of a war. The rest of us (the 99%) end up as 'cannonn fodder' or spend the rest of our days paying off debt in the form of taxes.

Author

Martie Coetser 24 months agofrom South Africa

Hi Robin, good to see you in Hubpages! We are most certainly on the same page. Will humans ever reach the stage where they will see war as the most barbaric way of achieving the most selfish goals?

Thank you so much for reading and sharing your thoughts. I totally agree with you :)

Author

Martie Coetser 24 months agofrom South Africa

Hi Nadine! Lol! You are digging up hubs I have completely forgotten about. I have to read this one again. Good to know Robin is also on Hubpages. Going to follow him right away. I'm going to send you a couple of pictures, too, before the end of this day. I'm really glad you enjoyed this hub and my thoughts about scandals.

Robin 24 months agofrom Cape Town South Africa

Well done Martie. The "laws" enacted to criminalize brothels are not laws really, only statutes put into place by the righteous. Personally I am in favor of repealing all such statutes and reverting to common law, of which there is really only one: Do no harm. Of course there are many extensions of this, mainly defining the harm, but in essence everyone is free to do what they like provided they do no harm to others.

Did the brothel keepers do any harm to anyone? Not at all.

This type of scandal mongering is also diverting us from the real scandals being openly perpetrated today, such as the millions of innocents killed in wars of aggression; Libya, Syria, Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan and many more. Those are the real scandals.

Nadine May 24 months agofrom Cape Town, Western Cape, South Africa

Wow Martie this is the best hub I have read today! I so love how your mind works. I will give Robin the link so he can read it himself and I will share it in my hubpages folder on Google+. Well done! After having replied and read the posts from all my hub-pages friends I will prepare your email with the photos. PROMISE

Sueswan 4 years ago

Hi Martie,

I agree that the innocent always get the wrong end of the stick.

Author

Martie Coetser 4 years agofrom South Africa

Sueswan, you've described the event in plain English and I agreed all the way with you. I accept the fact that they've violated the law and ethical codes. My issue, however, is with the Law - Comparing to serious life-threatening offences, running and supporting a brothel is nothing but a kindergarten for adults. Make it legal and control it with the same laws and regulations applicable to businesses, and it WILL lose more than half of its attraction. I also have an issue

with the penalization that reminds me of stoning.

I am not taking the side of those horny men who had grabbed the illegal opportunities offered by the lady and her partner, and I don't at all agree with the latter's business practice - keeping meticulously records obviously to blackmail their clients. I am on the side of the victims - the innocent women and children of those men. But then, is it not a typical example of the ripple-effect of events? The innocent always get the wrong end of the stick....

Thank you, Sueswan, for your straight-forward comment :)

Sueswan 4 years ago

"Wright, 29, was charged this month with engaging in prostitution in her dance studio and in an office across the street. Police said Wright videotaped many encounters without her clients' knowledge and kept meticulous records suggesting the sex acts generated $150,000 over 18 months."

Why would someone who says they are not guilty of prostitution keep records of how much money they made from sex acts?? These men willingly paid for sex, they did not agree to be videotaped. Some would say that if the men were not there in the first place then they couldn't be taped. Yes, but I will come to the defense of the men because when it comes to sex many men think with the wrong head.

Voted up and awesome

Take care :)

Author

Martie Coetser 4 years agofrom South Africa

molometer, good to see you in my corner. When I came back from Holland, I suffered cultural shock for a long time. I was not able to write a single paragraph, not to talk about a short story for Huisgenoot. As a matter of fact, I sunk into the deepest depths of depression. Six months later I was kind of saved by the bell.

Now on the Internet, I am constantly shocked by the beliefs, attitudes and manners of different cultures. I am not a typical South African boeremeisie, I am quite liberal and a rebel not afraid to speak my mind. I realize now that I am even too liberal for many Americans. LOL!

LMAO, for you at Table View's Planet of Fitness. Oh, and how sad am I because they've closed Ratanga Junction! I loved spending a day on those merry-go-rounds...

Take care, molometer!

molometer 4 years agofrom United Kingdom

Bookmarking this, a fascinating read.

Suffice it to say that. Gym was never like that when I attended in Planet Fitness in Table View.

The moral issues are down to interpretation and the religious and cultural influence is obviously a major consideration.

That's the great thing about travel. We see how other people live and realise that maybe 'we' may have the wrong ideas.?

Author

Martie Coetser 4 years agofrom South Africa

Hi my dearest Break of Dawn, only one word fits your comment - Amen! Really, we have so many opinions about the doings of others while it is such an enormous challenge to please our own souls without harming others. Love you, my friend!

Break of Dawn 4 years ago

Oh my, after reading all these profound and long comments, I feel quite intimidated leaving my own small insignificant comment, lol! However, I just wanted to say, Martie you did a great job putting this thought-provoking and fascinating hub together. Bravo my friend! And as long as we do not force or harm anyone, let everyone do whatever they please - Amen.

MartieCoetser 4 years ago

Auuww, my dear drbj, so good to see you in this court of justice. I've learned that I've lost the case, the names were published. So what can I say? My heart bleeds for those innocent wives and children. And I still believe that this was nothing else but public stoning with letters instead of rocks. Thanks for your lovely, smile-provoking comment :)

drbj and sherry 4 years agofrom south Florida

Ay, caramba, Martie. Who knew that Zumba 'lessons' in Kennebunk could be so, shall I say, entertaining? Both in the exercise of and subsequent revelation.

The way you dissected the meaning of 'scandal,' I am convinced, m'luv, that you missed your calling. You would be perfection as an attorney protecting a client from the ingenuous prosecuting district attorney.

Loved every single word of this and awarding a simple Brava and an Up+++ is simply not enough. Trust me.

Author

Martie Coetser 4 years agofrom South Africa

SilentReed, wow, what a nail you've hit right on its head. Scandals are indeed the ideal opportunities for us to share, justify and reconsider our sense of justice and our moral values. Mine radically change, or rather grow, through the years. Many issues I've regarded as sin and unacceptable years ago, I now see from a total different angle....

We may call these opportunities another form of voyeurism, but personally I don't really find delight at peeking into the lives of other people. I rather find delight in evaluating human behavior, perceptions, norms and standards, and especially the juridical systems of involved societies.

Thank you so much for giving me a little more positive perception of scandals.

SilentReed 4 years agofrom Philippines

Without dwelling on the pros or cons of prostitution, I believe that people seem to have a need to justify their sense of morality either to themselves or others. Scandals, especially the sexual variety provide the excuse to show off our bias and prejudice. Tabloids of yesteryear and now the instant replay or real time of modern communication play to our libido. If one can be honest about it, this is just another form of voyeurism, we delight at peeking into the lives of other people. :)

Author

Martie Coetser 4 years agofrom South Africa

Lucky Cats, amen-amen-amen!

In my opinion human's main problem is ignorance and narrow-mindedness. A lifespan of 70 years is just not enough for wisdom and knowledge obtained to establish any intellectual and emotional growth. People today are still the same kind of creatures they were in ancient times. Civilizations, laws, etiquette, inhibitions, modern values, etc. are merely like the skin of snakes. We grow in and out of it, but the True Human stays an 'animal' with 3 primary urges - to live, to multiply and to die. To live/survive we will take deadly risks, as if we actually cherish a desire to die.... Our urges rule us, while our intelligence merely guide us. The majority people on this planet are not intelligent. We can check the statistics - and we know that the IQ of a group equals the lowest individual IQ in the group. So what hope do we have for mankind? What is was and will be....

Human rights allow every Dick Tom and Harry to multiply.... Maybe this world needs a dictator who can forbid the reproduction of people with an IQ lower than ?? 120 ?? -

Down here miners are striking, demanding higher wages. They don't know anything about inflation or the running costs of a mine, the can't even spell economy, and to emphasize their stupidity, they kill each other - their own brothers and sisters.....

Anyway, I am wandering from the subject. Point is, ignorance and narrow-mindedness will always keep the majority in a box.

Amen again on your comment, Kathy. I am so completely on your page :)

Author

Martie Coetser 4 years agofrom South Africa

Svetlana, what a nice thing to say to me: "I don't have siblings, but you are my soul sister." You know I really do feel your pains, even those you cannot feel in your current 'mental fog'. Fact is, while we are in unfortunate situations, we really don't have the energy to care about the issues of others. Then we focus on our own. Then the saying counts: Everybody for himself and the devil for all.

I LOVE your intelligent reasoning, and even in the 'state' you are in, you 'talk sense'.

I will consider your suggestion a bit later. I have to publish another hub before Friday and I have another project at another site AND another contribution to 'Perspective' to be published on the 15th. So 'not enough time to do everything I must and want to do' is always-always my problem. And then also fatigue! Insomnia is killing me - allowing me only 3-4 hours sleep per night!

OH, but the good news, I'll be away on holiday from 19-23 Nov. Going to Durban, going to walk barefoot on the beach..... :) Tralala :)

Kathy 4 years agofrom The beautiful Napa Valley, California

well, Martie; this one is certainly stirring the pot.

Personally, in the best of all possible worlds; we, humans, would not prey upon one another. I say prey upon one another because, in the current state of affairs; here, the world in which we find ourselves at present; we must approach this w/in the context of reality.

Sometimes, reality sucks.

Ok...We are influenced by SO MUCH around us; by our childhood experiences, by our upbringing, our environment (nature/nuture), and so much more. We are the product of years, decades; centuries of influence. This is an ongoing, mutable and fluid reality. We are working our way in one direction or the next; much like the political realm; and we are acting/discerning/judging/living by directives which are, at once, obvious and covert. Subliminal.

We live in a world based on assumtions. We assume that something IS one way or the other; convinced that our belief system is truly based in some type of reality.

Here's the interesting part: WE made up the rules and we, for the most part, abide by them.

The little 'cliche' that I searched for earlier is "Everything Is." In other words; it just IS....WE place the definitions, judgements, attributes, and values to acts.

How did we get there? An effort to 'curb,' to 'control' and direct the populace in any society. Why? To avoid chaos, mayhem, and a sense of upheaval.

Laws exist in order to maintain order. These laws encompass the vast spread of human behaviors. Once, in order to assure that the family survived; that the unit could care for; provide for itself and, hopefully others; there was a definite NEED to protect ths productive unit....thus; social codes and moral directives.

Now, I believe that we are so endentured by this development over time that, except for intellectual discussion; I do not see much massive change soon...or at all.

Remember the bell curve and the rise and fall of societies; cultures, nations. These happened for a reason.

All this is somewhat esoteric..but; I believe, the overall rule applies.

THEN, there is "romantic" love, the feeling of dependency, the desire not to be abandoned or "forsaken," and the need to provide for children, etc. These play into our ideas and standards, as well

Also, there are the multitude of differences between individuals, as well as the fact that the way in which we view ourselves, singularly as well as a part of the greater population, is dictated/driven by our age. Younger; we are in the heightened reproductive years. As time changes; so do we, to a large extent (CAVEAT! I KNOW there are advertising companies out there who do not want us to think that, at 125, we don't have the same testosterone, estrogen or sexual drive that we did when we were 16 or 25 or 35 or 40 or 55....etc.) BUT, our behaviors are driven as much by suggestion "to be" one way or the other; as they are by our innate tendencies. How can we know, for sure, who and what we truly are when we are being compelled, on every level, to be whatever the perpetrayor of the push is selling us?

It isn't simple or easy. We live in a society that hates getting older, that disdains the wisdom of age and, rather, sells this out for the appearance of youth and youthful behaviors.

Anyway, the question of servicing the needs of others on whatever level...sexual, visual, intellectual, sensual, etc....is heavily steered by our environment and profiteers. Once, told to be chaste and prim; then told to be in a state of "love the one you're with," and, now...to be forever young.....who and what we are is being buried by an avalange of influcence.

Yikes! I'm so far off the track that, I fear, I've derailed. Anyway...no outing, no heavy fines and banishment from the tribe....just a little 'live and let live.'

kallini2010 4 years agofrom Toronto, Canada

My dearest Martie:

You know me - you and I are alike - we are either of the same psychological dough or almost the same.

Before I know it - I will give you - 42 km of text which your comment deserves and what I want to do.

That is my impulsiveness and my creativity.

Yet...

I am facing a challenge that seems too much for me - and forget the prostitutes - I don't even respect myself for the life that I am leading.

I am not saying this for to you say what you have said many times - I know that you support me and all this crap is temporary.

Long introduction.

What I want to say is - and, of course, it must be your decision - no pushing, no pressure - just what I would have told you if I lived next door

Take your comment out and publish it as a hub. It does not even requires editing.

Just for the record - I don't despise prostitutes - but I disagree with society. If I never find the courage, the interest, the time to help the ones who are my family, neighbors, people in need... than it is my fault. I can put the head under the pillow and say "it's none of my business", but it is. The change must happen from the foundation of the pyramid of society, not from the top.

You know I am "a Che Guevara" without energy. I do believe that we have to change the world, but without bullets.

Anyway - my opinion won't change - about your comment and I feel proud that you could write such a rebuttal in one sitting. It needs light. The comment section is not the right place.

But the decision is yours.

I am opening my "Dream Journal" and write this down

See Martie face-to-face and have a drink and a conversation.

I don't have siblings, but you are my soul sister.

Author

Martie Coetser 4 years agofrom South Africa

@ Chatkath, indeed, there are as many answers/reasons/excuses/solutions as there are scandals. Thank you for clicking in for the read :)

@ The Frog Prince, LOL! Your opinion on each and every hub of mine would NOT be scandalous :}

@ Ralph Deeds, thank you!

Author

Martie Coetser 4 years agofrom South Africa

Lucky Cats, I can but only say ‘amen’ on your comments and thanks for enhancing this hub of mine with your unique, most eloquent, way of expressing your thoughts. I believe that my reply on kallini’s comment also covers yours. What more can I say?

One of the rules I always keep in mind when I find myself in the position of a judge and executor of punishment. “Don’t punish wrong with wrong.” Another one: “Become part of the solution and not of the problem.” Of course, I was not always successful.

I find myself less involved in social issues as before. I’ve done my share. Actually more than my share. Now the reins are in the hands of the younger generation. I am now a passenger, although moaning and groaning from time to time – airing my views.

I must emphasize two of your statements, Kathy:

“A scandal is only as potent and legitimate as to that degree in which we assign it.”

“….. Then, a value system is assigned to the behaviors, labeling them either negative or positive. The "positives" being thought to hold society together while the "negatives" contribute to the unraveling of the fabric of society.”

Thank you so much Kathy for your most profound comment! Truly appreciated!

Author

Martie Coetser 4 years agofrom South Africa

always exploring, those pictures, telling the most horrible stories, shocked me too. To be honest, just seeing it again with the eye of my mind while I am writing this message to you, pulls my tears all over again. Imagine! That’s a woman they are burying alive! Thank you, Ruby, good to know you can see what I see. Take care, my dear friend :}

Author

Martie Coetser 4 years agofrom South Africa

Dear kallini2010, sorry for this hub-of-a-reply! But I could not skip one of your thoughts. Thank you so much for sharing them.

Of course, prostitution is degrading and no intelligent, sensitive person with high aspiration will choose it as a career. But it takes all kinds to make a world. There ARE people who really have no other talents to develop, or they don’t have any opportunities to develop their more moral-acceptable talents, so they got to use what they have. They may, of course, choose any of the other degrading occupations on this planet, including robbery, selling drugs, begging, cleaning toilets, name it. Prostitution is one of the oldest trades on this planet. It EXISTS, whether we like it or not.

So I say give entrepreneurs the legal opportunity to make the best of it; let them pay taxes, let them comply with labor laws….

People willing and eager to become employers or employees in this trade don’t see themselves the way we see them. According to them they render well-needed service and products. In their eyes we are snobbish intellectuals clinging to plastic, pliant morals with our noses in the air. It is all about survival. Why not ALLOW the weak to die and the strong to survive. Why protect the weak, why encourage them to become beggars and all kind of parasites?

I stick to my point – Make brothels legal and CONTROL them - like we (government) control abattoirs, butcheries, schools, supermarkets, crematoriums…. All legal institutions have specific standards to meet. You are the consumer; you will not accept bad products and services, and you will certainly not buy what you don’t need.

Adults should be allowed to make their own choices.

A long time ago I’ve read a novel – can’t remember the title – about life in a Chinese, or was it a Japanese, brothel, ‘serving’ mostly men working on ships. It was such an eye-opener. Those women are just like us, doing their jobs, cherishing their hopes, going for regular check-ups, demanding respect and consideration, dreaming about love. Their chance to die from a venereal disease is as high as a mineworker’s chance to die from tuberculosis, or a doctor’s chance of dying from any contagious decease, or a soldier’s from a bullet in the head, or a taxi driver….

You see, Svetlana, arguments against legalization of brothels carries no weight. Mere prejudice, including religious principles, keeps us from turning it into legal enterprises.

So even legal, it would still be a scandal when a religious leader, or any VIP, buys an orgasm.

Just for the record, I would not be interested in running a brothel or working in it. Many years ago I was asked by an owner of a couple hotels to run one on his behalf. At that time I had a couple of businesses myself, inter alia an estate agency and bookkeeping services. I refused, and only because the type of people in the trade did not appeal to me.

So what is the point of higher education? To enable us to achieve our personal goals and to meet our personal expectations.

So why don't we accept prostitution/pornography. Because it just don’t appeal to us. We have higher aspirations. We want to serve our fellowman on a higher level, rendering more IMPORTANT services. Our brain/intellect needs challenges. So we tend to ‘tolerate’ everything we regard as less important instead of accepting the diverse qualities and abilities and needs of ALL people.

So we think sweets are bad for our children’s teeth and so we forbid them to eat it and punish them when they do. (Will they listen to us? And if they do, will they never-ever get tooth decay?)

Of course I have respect for prostitutes. Geezzz, living their lives, doing their dirty jobs as human toilets, fearing the worse, bearing frustration, sorrow, experiencing the greatest contempt and rejection, keeping head above water in an environment I am not willing to live and work…. If that is the only thing I must do in order to stay alive, I will commit suicide. Honestly, I will NOT survive an hour in their shoes. So I cannot help but regard them with respect. I take my hat off for them!

Svetlana, now this is but only my view on this controversial topic. And you know it means nothing. Our views are like the wind. One wind is a fart, many views could become a hurricane.

Take care!

PS: Gosh, since I was a toddler my father believed I was a born to be an advocate. I am starting to believe him!

Ralph Deeds 4 years agofrom Birmingham, Michigan

Thoughtful, very well written piece.

The Frog Prince 4 years agofrom Arlington, TX

Dagnabbit! Was it scandalous of me to read this Hub? Am I feeling guilty or am I free of shame? Nice writing Martie.

The Frog

Kathy 4 years agofrom California

What an interesting topic Martie - It has so many different angles and ignites so many different opinions, just what does constitute a scandal? There are as many answers as there are scandals. Thought provoking to say the least ;-) Voted up - interesting

Kathy 4 years agofrom The beautiful Napa Valley, California

Martie..I thought about this a while and found there is more to discuss.

Some believe that the formation of laws, rules, behaviorial standards are in place to create an environment which is predictable, benign and able to be handled. Religions are purported to have created the idea of "sin" and commandments so that people would adhere to these and, thus, society would not fall in to complete chaos.

Isn't this the same today? Worldwide, there are laws, perceptions of "acceptable" vs "unacceptable / scandalous" actions, etc. Consider a society w/no laws, no "moral" standards; in effect, no agreed upon or obeyed set of codes to which we adhere.

Some might say that such a society would break down and fall into ruination because 'people ran amok.' We could create a list of behaviors which might fall into the category of being potentially harmful or disruptive.

Then, a value system is assigned to the behaviors, labeling them either negative or positive. The "positives" being thought to hold society together while the "negatives" contribute to the unraveling of the fabric of society. Murder? Larceny? Theft, Incest....

Somewhere, somehow; we "fine tuned" our definitions of positive and negative and, then, added to them; either glorified the "good," or vilified the "bad."

See? It's all relative on one hand and, perhaps, completely applicable on the other.

So...degrees to which we label and "punish" the bad resulted, as well as degrees to which we reward the "good." (Nobel Peace, Philanthropic recognition, etc.)

Figures to be emulated came about; heads of state, creators of beneficial of organizations, Religious leaders. On the face of it; these people are lauded while the "perpetrators of evil" are hated.

Religious edicts control human behavior as do Societal laws and cultural norms.

For conversation's sake; the pendulum swings incessantly and, throughout history, we find ourselves standing somewhere between the extremes.

Kathy 4 years agofrom The beautiful Napa Valley, California

Amazing in depth discussion, Martie. I agree that the "outing" and 'punishment' of participants is a bit juvenile. To what purpose, one might ask? As most of our psychological, cultural and sociological rules; mores, laws and expectations are enculturated in a particular society and/or as the result of religious / "spiritual" teachings and urgings with a threat of punishment if one steps outside the 'law,' and, since we ARE physical beings w/urges which, in effect, are propelled from beyond our sense of ethics...I must say I concur w/your words.

From a personal standpoint, no longer being a jealous, needy or romantic being for the most part; I am not, personally, touched by the behaviors of most people anymore. Perhaps this is why I stand apart; alone....because I find the habits and behaviors of some to be unjust; lacking in a broader scope of the "what is" and "what if" categories.

When youthful, particularly in Western Hemispheric cultures, we are taught to have certain expectations, modes of behaviors, ethics / ethos, rules of etiquette and we are, also, instructed that these carry heavy rewards or penalties.

As you pointed out (and I have, yet, to read the first hub which inspired this one); we are creatures of all of the above mixed in w/our primal selves; our basic needs, our innate urge to procreate. Just like (ah!) animals! As, of course, WE ARE ANIMALS. Yes, we have intellect (well, some of us do), yes, we possess the ability to consider, value, weigh and judge; discern....but, of course, these are based on a pre determined set of definitions of "what is is." (LO..had to throw that in here)...No, really; but, back to enculturation, reward punishment, right wrong, etc.

I remember, as a younger student, when the popular saying was 'whatever is.' In other words, what is, is. No ups, no downs..no rights, no wrongs...rather like a zen koan....maybe!

Back to personal stuff. For me, as an older person now; one not wishing to form a family, have a constant in terms of relationship(s), and one who depends on myself, first....the need/tendency to worry about others' activities is, pretty much..mute.

So, there, my dear. I think your mind is brilliant and your ability to deeply analyze subject matter is exciting. I don't need to add a thing to your premise...you've hit it on the head! (Maybe like the spouces of some of the bad boys might feel) LOLO j/k

All ups but funny unless, of course, the joke is on one of those who ends up being "named." (Which I do not agree w/....this can only cause much heartache and tumult in a time during which we need no more reason to be sad, disillusioned, upset or judgmenta.)

In closing; a scandal is only as potent (oops!), is only as legitimate as to that degree in which we assign it.

Love ya

Ruby Jean Fuller 4 years agofrom Southern Illinois

Geez, What can I add to this conversation that would be beneficial? First let me say that the pictures of stoning and burying a man alive made me feel ill and angry. How dare anyone think they have the right to punish another, who can cast the first stone? Now about a brothel, It is not a place where I would WORK but I have not been in a position of need, If you get my drift.. People who judge a prostitute has not walked in their shoes. To my way of thinking, a scandal is nothing more than wicked gossip by people who are vicious and jealous. I can think of no one else who would write about this subject. I applaud your ability to look at all sides on any topic. That's why I am a follower my friend..Hugs..

kallini2010 4 years agofrom Toronto, Canada

I disagree.

All I have read and seen about prostitution/pornography does not provide a rosy picture about "sex workers" and how they lived happily ever after.

I do not despise those people, women or men - there are male prostitutes as well, and I think any prostitution is degrading.

If it was not, the most reasonable women would be doing it, the business women, where the logic goes like that

if you can make more money just selling sex, what is the point of higher education and all that pain in the ass that most jobs are?

Grinding, unsatisfying...

I don't even believe those women who would claim that they are "fine" with it - there is a defense mechanism that is called "counterattack".

It is usually the destiny of most successful people who mask their problems counterattacking.

I am not the person to put labels on anyone,

I only classify to understand. A scientist died in me.

I read a book "Empire of Illusion: The End of Literacy and the Triumph of Spectacle" and there was a chapter about prostitution and pornography. That chapter alone could disprove all illusions / rather rationalizations about the subject.

As I said, there would not be a scandal, no ground for one, if everything would grand in that area and prostitution/brothels would be acceptable by society. It is not, so we get outraged every now and then, but the outrage, sometimes which might seem like an overreaction and totally out of proportion, is due to our simmering rejection and disagreement with "what is". It is almost like touching the open nerve of society.

We don't accept prostitution/pornography.

We tolerate it. Ignore a small wound, don't treat it and it will grow to be a major pain. I consider sex business to be a major pain/wound/ill.

I don't know if you watched "Middle Men", but I greatly recommend it - it is a comedy so the message is much more palatable and more effective (besides it is a true story) rather then any sermon, but the core is the same. Even running a business makes a man undesirable and unacceptable for his own family.

My own beloved ex-husband told me that the only way I could make money (without him) was to become a prostitute and s-ck black d-cks.

First I wondered why black?

Then I said that I wouldn't do it for two reasons.

I don't like doing it and I am not good at it.

(But I was hurt, mission accomplished. His mission.)

But then I talked to a wise woman with a great sense of humour and told her about my predicament and she laughed it off:

"You are not good at it? Don't worry, you'll get better with practice!"

Take it any way you want. Martie would probably say - I'd rather not think too much about the subject, but if you go deeper and deeper into it, you'll discover precisely what I am stating.

Degradation. Do we respect prostitutes? My favourite part about porn is looking at the faces of those people (I don't watch too much, but I have seen enough to see the pattern) - these people never look very intelligent. It is almost like a prerequisite for the job.

Well, what I think is we are not as developed a society and not as intelligent as we claim to be if we still cannot find the best solution for this.

And one of the reasons is, of course, IT'S GOOD BUSINESS.

Why would anyone bother "solving" the ill if it can be milked?

I don't see porn industry going down anytime soon. There will be a scandal upon scandal.

Cheers, ladies and gentlemen!

Author

Martie Coetser 4 years agofrom South Africa

You are right, Paula - a husband's 'negative' actions should not make his wife feel degraded and inferior to women who seem to be happily married.

Yet, it does....

Love makes us strong, it builds our self-esteem, it makes us feel meaningful and proud. If we don't get it, we DO feel degraded and meaningless. The same goes for children. And even men...

The soul of the human being needs real, true, undivided LOVE. Almost like God.... Don't confuse it with facts, it has made up its mind..... :)))

See you, Paula!

Paula 4 years agofrom Beautiful Upstate New York

Martie....Words from a wise old woman.....Just because your husband's name was on the list.....and your neighbor's husband's name was not.....does not mean her husband's name is not on "another list"....or won't be in the future. It's usually, just a matter of time, my dear. And it certainly is NO reflection on the woman/wife!!.....Don't ever say any such thing again! How does a husband's less than stellar behavior ...degrade his wife....??

PLEASE.....NO...never...It does not. This is an unacceptable as a child feeling responsible for being abused!! The victim is simply never at fault...never responsible.

Author

Martie Coetser 4 years agofrom South Africa

Paula, thanks for your delightful and profound comment. I do agree with you. Fact is, newspapers and magazines are supposed to reveal information and even to rub salt in wounds. They actually establish and maintain norms and standards.

My rant is all about human nature. Gosh, we are so h-u-m-a-n. Of course, according to the constitution of our country, a judge does not have the right to prohibit the publishing of an offender's name. Law, however, prohibit the publishing of names of offenders under the age of 18.... Though there is something more about the latter... Not relevant now...

We just have to study the nature of animals, and in particularly of primates, in order to understand that humans are not born with a natural tendency to be faithful and loyal to their partners. The emu of Australia and some other animals/birds/insects do stick to their first partner until death parts them, and even after death, the survivor will stay a widow.

Faithfulness and loyalty of couples are forced down on the human race by society, civilization and strengthened by religion for the sake of children and the survival of the human race. Spontaneous faithfulness is a result of true love, and only 10-15% humans manage to find the perfect partner for true love to develop.

We are so complicated.

But I still feel sorry for the wives and children. Imagine your husband was not guilty, but mine was.... I would feel inferior, degraded, less woman than you. Oh, you will give me a hug and tell me how much you empathize with me, and then I will feel more of a failure. I will silently disappear in my own mission to prove myself as worthy of a man's undivided love and respect. Publishing those names, will surely have a negative effect on the women's self-esteems and their inter-relationships with each other. Not to talk about the children of those 'dogs', having to face their peers with the knowledge that their fathers are fornicators.

But, this is but only the tragic results of men who ignore the laws of nature. Oh, and when I say nature, I mean knowing that unfaithfulness is a natural tendency, but ALSO knowing that unfaithfulness is rejection of trust and love.... the demolishing of a bond... The killing of a specific entity of love.... (As you've stressed, for every action there is a reaction.)

Oh well, life is life and shit happens. I can but only wish them all of the best.

Hugs to you, Paula!

Paula 4 years agofrom Beautiful Upstate New York

OH...I'm laughing, Martie, trust me......To me it's funny when men get caught with their....in the cookie jar!! I guess I do have to mention something here that is in one of the comments....that "prostitution is degrading." It certainly is, to the Female as a Species....but quite obviously, the prostitute herself, does not see it as degrading....but rather a "control" thing as well as a damned big money maker.....

There is no justification whatsoever to engage in any occupation that would cause you to be or to feel "degraded." It's a choice.

and oh yes.... The law and the media are not responsible for "humiliating" the wives and children. It's pretty clear that the man in their life has done that....even if it remains a secret. When a drunk driver kills another....publication of this doesn't harm the family ....the drunk has already done this.

For every action there is a reaction. For every crime, a debt to pay, for every mistake, a correction....for every sin, a penance and for every privilege, an obligation......this list of cause and effect is endless....

Maybe it should be legal in every State.....what the heck.....Men deserve a variety of ways to fool around and be unfaithful and keep their needs continually satisfied...and make a mockery of their marriage and their wife and make a damned fool of himself...I say...go hog wild, guys.....Since our Miss Alexis was an illegal brothel, her clients better HOPE she is disease-free...or that they were WELL-protected.....they'll have much bigger problems than the newspaper. Oh yes.... I am laughing....This has gone on since the beginning of time and surely will go on forever.

Author

Martie Coetser 4 years agofrom South Africa

Kallini, thank you so much for enhancing this hub of mine with such a profound and insightful comment.

I like your metaphor: "It's like a wound that pains you and you get to live with it, but every time it flares, you jump from your pants and start screaming "Ouch! it hurts!"

So true - we cannot live with adultery, the breaking of vows, demolishing of trust, cheating, lies - It is all sources of severe emotional pain. Pain provokes blind anger, we smell blood when we are betrayed. So very-very human.

Thanks for the most interesting info about Yahoo and yahooism. My remark about it was actually a 'teaser' - We think we know what we know, but in fact there are so much MORE to know about everything we know.

I haven't noticed that the adds have been disabled. And if they did, I am only going to sigh, instead of allowing a bit of anger to flame up in me. Disabling adds also means no income for HubPages, so the most immature and rigid creature seems to be Google. HP's moderators and team are merely the puppets on Google's string. Not knowing that animal's true objectives, I can really-really but only SIGH!

Thank you, Svetlana, for your very smart and welcome comment. Take care!

Author

Martie Coetser 4 years agofrom South Africa

fpherj, I am sure the event is a marvelous free marketing campaign for Zumba-dancing. Mark my words, all Zumba-instructors are going to benefit for the next two years. All they need to do is get some banners on the doors: "Strictly Zumba!"

I also believe that most of those guilty men are going to treat their wives like queens for the next year or three. I mean, facing an unscheduled vacation can change some devils into angels.

Let's laugh, Paula!

Author

Martie Coetser 4 years agofrom South Africa

Wayne, a happening like that down here in my woods - to be honest in the entire SA - would elicit the same reaction. Our local newspapers and magazines would offer thousands of rand for the names of adulterous VIP's. Oh, and we, including me, would surely marvel in the sensation - I mean to actually know exactly who have had an illegal orgasm.... What a thrill! Lol!

We are human; our lives are quite boring; now and then we really need some sensational excitement. Thanks to those who provide it!

But shame, I cannot help but feel sorry for those men. How the heck could they resist such a sexy entrepreneur? But as a judge, I would never humiliate their wives and children by revealing their names.

Thanks for sharing your smile-provoking comment, Wayne.

Author

Martie Coetser 4 years agofrom South Africa

ImKarn, I enjoyed your comment very-very much. I understand sexual offences are less in countries where men (and women) can relieve themselves of sexual tension around every other corner. In Holland they can even use soft drugs in what they call 'coffee shops', and the Police take care of those who dare passing out in the streets. But don't forget about the sociopaths and dangerous mental cases - for them those hookers are soft targets. So let's just know that every sport has its injuries.

You have my empathy with Carol. She left you a stupid, childish, offensive comment. But let me give you an idea how bad she could have been. Many moons ago I was attacked with an entire hub (and comments allowed) by a True Chauvinist - one of HP's most popular male hubbers. I defended myself with a hub (like this one). Believe me, that was a drama and a half. So, sorry girl, but through my eyes Carol's nasty comment has no power at all. You should not even feel offended. After all, who the hell is she, not even willing to face you?

But so we learn and so we grow.

Thanks for your generous comment, Leslie. Oh, yes, Maria is adorable - the best sista/friend in Hubville. But oh boy, she can swear like a sailor. You've heard nothing yet :))

Author

Martie Coetser 4 years agofrom South Africa

Sunshine625, I do believe that the strength of relationships is tested during differences of opinion. If I had the slightest idea that I would lose dear effer's friendship with my difference of opinion, I would have bite my tongue. She IS more important to me as my opinion about brothels and men paying for what they want - Yes, pay they must pay. Most men are pigs and I do have enough grudges in me to hang them alive for the merest. But then, I also know that life is life and people are flesh and blood.

I think it is a very interesting hub, especially because I did not expect it would be the road you are taking.

I am not a big fan of punishment without understanding who is being punished, what for and how effective the punishment would be.

I never thought that penitentiary systems were particularly helpful, however... Not before, not now, and not in the USA.

Just a few thoughts along the way (and never mind the sexual undercurrent that this particular scandal stirs in most of us).

First of all, I would recommend to enhance the definition of a scandal to

===========

scan·dal/ˈskandl/

Noun:

1. An action or event regarded as morally or legally wrong and causing general public outrage: "a bribery scandal".

2. The outrage or anger caused by such an action or event.

===========

I would put an emphasis on "morally or legally wrong", so yes, the scandal is only valid in the temporal and cultural time frame. What would constitute a scandal today may be totally normal tomorrow.

Also, the big part of a scandal is the PUBLIC OUTRAGE.

So, we are still not OK with pornography, sex trade, brothels, and prostitution. It's like a wound that pains you and you get to live with it, but every time it flares, you jump from your pants and start screaming "Ouch! it hurts!"

The same is here - we do not accept the idea of brothels. We close our eyes, look the other way, but bring it into our focus - KABOOM!

I am not going to discuss whether I accept it or not - but I cannot picture myself being a prostitute - I would be a lousy one and die of hunger. I think.

I have never heard of Yaho being a version of Yahweh - I am not going to argue this point either - maybe you are right - but my sources yielded only two (one and a half result)

The name Yahoo! is an acronym for "Yet Another Hierarchical Officious Oracle," but Filo and Yang insist they selected the name because they liked the general definition of a yahoo: "rude, unsophisticated, uncouth."

===========

yahoo [jəˈhuː]

n pl -hoos

a crude, brutish, or obscenely coarse person

[from the name of a race of brutish creatures resembling men in Jonathan Swift's Gulliver's Travels (1726)]

yahooism n

===========

I am not quoting this to correct you, I am simply following my notes and, sort of, having a conversation with you (and maybe others) here because I can't discuss it over a steaming cup of coffee!

===========

"Gulliver's Travels" is a perfect example of the scandalous experiences - as Gulliver goes from one "weird" society to another and realizes how relative norms and habits are. I find the term "yahooism" (have never heard of it before, what a scandal!) particularly delightful - because for my Russian ear it sound like "ya-dick-ism" in its rudest possible form and talk about sex offenses and sex scandals!

===========

Funny, your comparison of sex and going to the toilet. My mom used to say that for men, relieving themselves - sexually or answering nature calls - is the same. Had sex, forgot it until the next urge. I can agree with this logic, but a toilet is an inanimate object and a woman is not, prostitution is degrading and is still not acceptable. Therefore, the outrage.

===========

But in the end, I would agree with you, with your questioning

what is morally wrong?

(what is legally wrong is easy - legal, not legal, allowed, not allowed, end of story).

Morally? Is a war morally wrong? Yes. Is it a scandal?

There are heroes (soldiers who kill), and the other soldiers (who kill) and lose the war. There are those who start it, the offenders...

But why do we engage in fighting with the same methods? Are the ones who provoked the war (behind the scenes) are not equally responsible if not more? Is the one who actually kills more responsible than the one who sends and orders to kill?

Are those people who denied ships with Jews to land (during WWII) were morally responsible (if not legally)?

And if anybody wants an outrage - none of us is a saint -

you can print my name - An Earth Offender -

Svetlana Ivanova is engaged in leaving too big a footprint on mother Earth therefore slowly killing it with waste and overuse of valuable resources. She does not share food with those less fortunate and does nothing to change the situation.

It does not sound sensational, not enough to cause a big scandal, but it is true. I am guilty as charged. But here I stand with the majority and I am safe.

What if I try swimming against the majority?

They will publicly execute me at the city square.

As long as we love scandals, the noise and punishing the scapegoats, the scandals will live on!

We love being outraged. It is a sort of entertainment!

Congratulations on your very thoughtful hub, but I would not expect anything less from you, my friend.

Did HP disable your ads on this one? They feel scandalized every time the word "sex" appears.

Paula 4 years agofrom Beautiful Upstate New York

LOL...Wayne...behave yourself! Her Zumba classes were not really a part of her "other" business....basically, just a front and reason to rent the facility.....I don't think the news reports claimed that her male Zumba students were also her brothel clients!!! LOL....but, if any were, and their names appear on the infamous "list,"......I suppose wives and girlfriends will be playing Zumba music in the background as they pack the guys up for their unscheduled vacations !!! LOL...sorry, I know I shouldn't be laughing........

Wayne Brown 4 years agofrom Texas

It being Kennebunkport, I am sure there were some quite prominent names on that list. Still, even the wealthy need some form of exercise. I can hear it now, "Be back in a little while, honey...it's time for my Zumba!" Who knows, it just might be hard (or should I say difficult?) to get a little Zumba way up there in Maine! LOL! Good stuff as usual, Martie! ~WB

Karen Silverman 4 years ago

Brothels, toilets, and football - O, MY!

I am SUCH a 'dopamine', Martie - i labor daily to reduce the 'malodorous' fumes of the smutty, shameful time i spend in the toilet of life!

You bring a point across like no other - and you use words like cutlery: First -slice and dice the facts, then- fork it to us with intelligence and humor - and finally -spoon feed your fans a giant helping of 'thinking outside the, er, 'box' (excuse me dear - if i don't pun, i don't live..lol)

And you're sooo right - it'd be soo much easier in a place where minds have actually opened - instead of narrowed...

where sex and sexuality is considered natural (what could be MORE natural?) instead of something to be ashamed of! You may notice that they have a MUCH smaller incidence of pedophelia, rape, and sexual assault in europe? Hmmmmmmm - let's consider this NOT - shall we?

Jesus loved whores - remember folks - even god needs it - and used to be able to get it - publicly!

Now? Those who tell YOU to be good..to feel guilt - are doing alter boys - REGULARLY and OFTEN - all in the name of...what exactly?

God? Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...

ps...Thank you, my dear, dear friends of the hub - i love the friendships found here and the brave people who stand up for what's right - AND for each other - it's a rare and beautiful thing to see!

The comment by 'carol' really kinda shook me up, gave me a case of the eeby-geebies to be honest - i couldn't understand...WHY?..or who..

I feel badly for a soul that suffers so much that they need to inflict pain on others - but - isn't that what this hub is all about too - eh, Martie!

Thanks again - and sorry for writing the novel!

voting, sharing, loving!

ps: Maria - you are 'fooking' adorable..

Linda Bilyeu 4 years agofrom Orlando, FL

Now if it wasn't for the "scandal" we wouldn't have had the honor of hearing Effer's point of view and now your point of view SAA. I say bring on the scandals, they make for good entertainment and brilliant hubs!:)

Author

Martie Coetser 4 years agofrom South Africa

Good idea - copy and paste it where it belongs. And you know, Maria, you are always-always welcome to do whatever in my hubs. I mean, geezzz, you're my sista. Just don't put a spider in my bed!

Maria Jordan 4 years agofrom Jeffersonville PA

As if I have any business lollygagging on your hub... I am so sorry to take the FOOK over sometimes...

I absolutely adore this comment of yours and intend to copy it for posterity...seriously.

Love you, beautiful and good (in a bad way), Sista Martie

Author

Martie Coetser 4 years agofrom South Africa

Mar, I saw that faceless Carol in Leslie's corner, and I was wondering WTH she was. Never even thought she could be one of the sweet Carols I know. As you know, Mar, there are the Good and the Bad and the Ugly Carol's, Maria's and Martie's. We are good even when we are bad, and they are bad even when they are good. And not to talk about we being beautiful even when we're ugly and they're ugly even when they're beautiful. So there! :))) More hugs to you :)

Maria Jordan 4 years agofrom Jeffersonville PA

While I love the name Carol as that of my own sister... There is a nameless face that has been quite rude to our Leslie on HP... I hope she was stoned and has gone far far away now...

Author

Martie Coetser 4 years agofrom South Africa

My dearest CS, marcoujor, to be able to see the bigger picture, one really has to spend some time in hell, find the door to freedom AND rise above the frivolous and futile.

I wanted to use the scripture: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone..." Unfortunately the lady involved apparently committed adultery, which is a slight different scenario as the one I had in focus. On top of this, her guilt was determined by one of the most ridiculous rituals in the book of laws ~ Numbers 5:11-29.

Maria, as you know, I am not trying to sell my perspectives, I simply share them with the hope that some people may find them worthy of consideration.

Lots of warm and sunny hugs to you, Maria :)

BTW, who the hell is Carol? Lol! I've seen her and thought she was too nasty....

Maria Jordan 4 years agofrom Jeffersonville PA

Perhaps we can take a field trip to Holland to explore Holland's most profitable article of 'import'ance.

Make it legal and control it...Sista, you are amazing...let's not tell carol.

What amazed me in Holland: The majority of locals don't support the trade - they are happily married or in close and maybe less closed relationships. The majority employees and customers are foreigners. Prostitution is Holland's most profitable article of export. "Make it legal and control it," was in my opinion a wise decision of their government. And to think that they were the original establishment of Protestantism!

Of course, in a case where children and women are forced into the trade, it would be not a scandal, but a horrible TRAGEDY. (I am comparing this to thousands of men sent to war by their governments and so-called patriotic nations.)

Oh, you believe women use those rubber contraptions? Now how would I know? I am still a virgin :)

Maria Jordan 4 years agofrom Jeffersonville PA

Sista,

This is a piece that reminds me of the expression: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone..."

I greatly respect the way you broke this issue down, offering comparisons that, while humorous in a way, are worthy considerations.

As both a sinner and a victim of crime, I am fairly clear on the distinction. I appreciate anyone who takes the time to see the bigger picture and you surely have.

Voted UP and UABI. Excellent critical thinking! Hugs, Maria

Author

Martie Coetser 4 years agofrom South Africa

Denise, I also suspect that the word 'scandal' is only applicable when someone was caught doing something everybody secretly wish they could do. The Entrepreneur is quite attractive and obviously intelligent and her clients were the cream of the crop. No children were involved and nobody was forced to participate. So what is the damn issue? Envy? I would advice the involved government to update their laws.

Thank you for sharing your opinion.

Augustine A Zavala 4 years agofrom Texas

For the record, I believe the women use the rubber contraptions.

Brothels have existed since ancient times. I think the scandal is blown out of proportion, since those involved are consenting adults. I haven't read any studies regarding brothels and their impact on cultures/societies where they're accepted. I would assume that relationships are still intact, most people still want to get married, and families haven't disappeared in countries where they are legal to operate. My only concern would be disease and the exploitation of children and vulnerable women forced into the trade. Fascinating, thank you for sharing.

Denise Handlon 4 years agofrom North Carolina

I've been following the news piece about the 'scandal' and I find it all very interesting. In fact, I was betting a friend that she operated alone, with just her 'manager' as a 'partner' in this brothel...he insists there were other women involved and that is what makes it a brothel. I haven't heard mention of ANY other women involved. Does anyone know for sure? I want to win this bet.

fpherj, so true! 'Acts of God' always shock us into seriousness. What does it matter who sleeps where with whom when real danger can wipe us any minute off this planet? But I must say again - I feel so sorry for all involved. Imagine the doubts and the fears, the anxiety, the terror, the hurricane playing havoc in the minds and souls of all involved?

Take care, dear Paula :)

BTW, have I told you that you are a great reporter?

Author

Martie Coetser 4 years agofrom South Africa

Nell, you've hit a nail on its head. Considering our primary urges - to live, multiply and die - we should not - and should not even be able to -have issues with and about Life.

Though according to Descartes we are different because we can think.... But you know, I think animals and plants can also think...

I am against chaos. How can order be created underground where everything is illegal?

Thanks for your insightful comment. Take care, Nell

Paula 4 years agofrom Beautiful Upstate New York

Well, you are quite welcome, Martie.....and I am flattered that your reaction to the news story I presented, encouraged you to share your thoughts and feelings with us.....Great relay!

For all the public exposure this story received, there are many who know nothing about it.....and as to the "alleged client list," I have not come across the headlines. Seems this story has died down from the initial frenzy. Maybe the POTUS campaign and Hurricane Sandy have over shadowed the scandal story.......Great hub, Martie.....you gave a wonderful presentation!!! UP+++

Nell Rose 4 years agofrom England

Hi Martie, nice one! to be honest it has always totally annoyed and puzzled me why the heck 'certain relationships', putting it like that but you know what I mean, are anything to do with anybody else? we are all adults, we should be able to get down and intimate with who the hell we like, why are brothels against the law? I can't understand how we can all be expected to follow Gods laws, and how God made us if we totally throw away the one thing that makes us all be here! why is it wrong? its nature! lol! great hub Martie, nell

Okay, in this hub I did discuss people, but simply to focalize on their conception of a scandal.

Thank you so much for your supportive comment :)

BTW, in the shoes of a newspaper's or magazine's editor I would, of course, feed the scandalmongers with lots of sensational info, just because they are my source of income... Money TALKS!

Mohan Kumar 4 years agofrom UK

I love the sheer dust storm that follows in the wake of a so called 'scandal' it exposes more posturing of 'righteous behaviour' among folks whose ' I told you so' attitude is so amusing. Martie this is an exceptional hub. You ask some serious questions here. It reminds me of The 'Scarlet Letter' which was also set in New England with the puritanical fire that demeaned women. There are far more things to get one's adrenaline going than salacious happenings in a Zumba class! But hey, I suppsose it sells papers and increases ratings.

Author

Martie Coetser 4 years agofrom South Africa

Alecia, categorizing, grouping, sorting, putting same kind of things in one box, CREATING ORDER, is such a common human tendency, and, of course, necessary. I guess flexibility, an open mind, divergence and the ability to accept the demands of civilization may prevent sudden mass fear and anxiety over anticipated events...

Thank you for reading and sharing your opinion :)

Alecia Murphy 4 years agofrom Wilmington, North Carolina

This is very interesting. I think the internet and a 24/7 hour news cycle contributes to things becoming instant scandals.

Not everything is a big deal. Like you said, the people in the brothel story were adults who had their on reasons for doing that type of business. I don't condone it but I don't want to judge.

More often than not when I read online stories, I don't read comments. People hide behind the anonymity of a username and say downright nasty things at situations they can only see from afar. While I understand somethings are egregious, I don't believe you should put a person in one category or another for their behavior.

Voted up, awesome, and interesting!

Author

Martie Coetser 4 years agofrom South Africa

femme - yes, videoing their clients was quite arrogant and self-righteous. What was their objective? Blackmailing? Fiat justitia ruat caelum (Let justice be done though the heavens fall.) Thank you for sharing your opinion.

Oh yes, I would hardly operate or support a brothel, but good luck to those with inhibitions that allow them to do so. I envy them for having so much pleasure. Though I suspect what I enjoy - having sex with a man I truly love - is the ultimate in pleasure. Take care of yourself, my dear friend!

Author

Martie Coetser 4 years agofrom South Africa

@ SilverGenes & mckbirdbks ~ I can say but only 'amen' after your profound comments. Thank you so much for 'telling' me that I am not the only one with a so-called outrageous perception of a scandal...

femmeflashpoint 4 years ago

Ditto what SilverGenes said ... "BRAVO!"

Wonderful article, Martie .... And, why don't you share with us how you REALLY feel? (Grin!)

Teasing aside, you're right!!! I'm a Christian, and I was birthed into one of the most judgmental cultures on the planet! Do I think running, being employed by, or being a client in a brother is something respectable? Not hardly .....

However, I believe we were created as creatures with free will. I'd choose NOT to participate in a brothel's shenanigans but, my beliefs and preferences are my own. My neighbor might believe and prefer otherwise. :)

I can live my life the way I want, and he can do the same with his, and we don't have to approve of one another. We only have to approve of ourselves.

If someone wants to operate a brothel, that should be their right. Perhaps what made it a scandal was in the videoing of clients, without the clients' permissions. In that, they crossed the line and violated their clients' rights. So, they SHOULD get into trouble for that.

Excellent and interesting read!

femme

mckbirdbks 4 years agofrom Emerald Wells, Just off the crossroads,Texas

Hello Martie. Well there is no question that you have put a great amount of thought into this presentation. That we as a civilization do not progress in any logical order is a frightening set of circumstances. That the 'old ways' are dragged forward century after century with nothing learned is telling. Telling in the sense of how easily we will all be dragged back down. You hear on a daily basis, fear and hatred pointing in ever direction. Now to me that is a scandal.

SilverGenes 4 years ago

Martie, this is such an exceptionally good hub that there is really nothing to add except "BRAVO!". We are indeed moving backwards, especially when it comes to women's issues. Add money into the mix and well... Martha Stewart did more time than some child molesters. Public shame is alive and well, apparently. The only thing missing are the stocks.