It's barely been a week since President Obama's re-election, and some people can't believe, truly can't believe, that things didn't go their way.

As of Wednesday morning, 37 states had posted petitions on the White House website to secede from the United States of America. (Some not-so-brilliant citizens of Georgia and South Carolina actually have two different secession postings each, but I'm counting those knuckleheads only once.)

I'm sorry to report that this not-so-illustrious group includes California, where nearly 7,000 citizens have signed a petition quoting the Declaration of Independence and insisting on the right to set up their own government.

This is clearly part of a movement to draft all the states, and Lord knows that there are certainly enough foolish people in each and every state in the union who would be willing to put their name on anything at all. But seeing as this country did fight the most bloody war in its history over the secession of the chattel slavery-holding states, it's sad to see that those are the same states that currently boast the most popular secession petitions.

Louisiana (around 30,000 signatures). Florida (about 24,000). South Carolina (around 28,000). Alabama (nearing the 23,000 mark). And last but never least, Texas, which rates as the state most likely to secede at more than 80,000 signatures.

But like all such things, it also depends on having a seed planted out there, to make the unspoken speakable, if only to be dismissed. Indeed, secession is an absurd, unthinkable notion, relegated to a handful of fringe cooks. Just like gay marriage was 10 years ago...

Secession petitions are a waste of time. The only way this can gain any momentum is for state legislatures to pass laws telling the fedgov to pound sand. We need an umbrella alliance of red states to organize and focus the effort. Get enough state legislatures to join the alliance and pass laws telling fedgov to shove it and maybe something can happen, but forget anything coming of it without action by state governments.

The question then comes down to who is willing to shoot first. Let's say Texas does issue articles of secession. Will Obama pull the US military out of the new Republic of Texas? How about the EPA, OSHA, NASA or a thousand other federal agencies? Essentially Obama would ignore secession until United States facilities started being forcibly taken over by Republic of Texas forces. Pretty soon you would have a Fort Sumter situation where the Texans would have to shoot to remove US forces. Then after dozens of US troops have been killed by the Republic of Texas, would the rest of the military call for retreat or attack against the rebels?

I'm sure this could be finessed. Texas issues articles of secession, and tells its businesses that they they need no longer withold and/or pay federal taxes. Texas is then in a position of defending her citizens from federal authorities.

> Im still waiting for someone, anyone, to propose a
> solution as to how you overcome, electorally, a majority
> now utterly dependent on government handouts and a
> political party determined to grow that majority to the
> greatest extent possible other than separation or
> surrender to it.

Wait no more. It can be done the same way they did it: by vote fraud. But I strongly recommend against it and that’s just me.

63
posted on 11/14/2012 1:44:24 PM PST
by Jyotishi
(Seeking the truth, a fact at a time.)

We minorities is gonna be in trouble because da secedeers gonna make us go back to du fields unless Obama come and saves us... Hail Obama, save us from da race mastas!

I can just see da great Moralizers from the MSM a’wheepin’ and a’whailin’ now. And da great “voloonteer” peeps army(most of whom stll a’smartin’ over no jobs, no ebt and welfare) will form to bring dem seceding racists to heel! And in the da midst of deer train’in a little red book be giv’n dem! “And they will call it Mao Pheonix: Long March 2!

My prediction: 50 million dead total for both sides just for a start...one for every “legitimate”(sarcasm on) abortion. If nukes are used... living survivors may “envy the dead”!

64
posted on 11/14/2012 1:47:19 PM PST
by mdmathis6
("Barry" Xmas to all and have a rapaciously taxable New Year!)

The nation of Israel was formed when a man of passion. Jacob, wrestled with God all night, he was blessed but still ended up with a life long hip injury out of it.

If a new nation or a renewed nation is to be formed or reformed, people of passion are going to have to wrestle with God again if the nation formed is to have any value and longevity under heaven...but it will be costly and the first generation will bear those costs for the rest of their lives!

66
posted on 11/14/2012 2:00:55 PM PST
by mdmathis6
("Barry" Xmas to all and have a rapaciously taxable New Year!)

“Is expressing the desire to secede an indication that a number of our fellow citizens want the left to understand that number of Americans can no longer live with the left?”

This hits the nail squarely on the head. The petition outburst represents millions of Americans sending a message to the socialist Democrats: we don’t want to fight you, argue with you, try to persuade you or campaign against you. We wish to be free of you and never think of you again.

Okay, so the Kremlin sent in legions of communists to America to “reeducate” the American public and teach them to embrace socialism. It worked beyond their wildest dreams. Now there’s even talk of secession in the air, which is a HUGE win for the Kremlin.

Question: Does anyone really believe they’ll stop there? No, they’ll go after the red states next in exactly the same way; send in socialists to reeducate the children of the United Red States of America and eventually break it up too. And so on, until there’s nothing left.

We will not secede. We will not cede one inch to these bastards. I’d rather die. It’s all or nothing. They can go. But they can’t take even a handful of soil with them. C’mon, we fought a civil war over this. It ain’t happening. Don’t even talk about it. Don’t even think it.

I have a right to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness given to me by my Creator and established by the Constitution of this country.

I have the right to practice my religion and live according to it’s mandates without being forced by the government to commit or enable acts that offend those mandates; whether it be by financial means or the upholding of those who practice such.

I have a right to rear, nurture, instruct and counsel my children in these precepts in order to instill these character traits for their benefit.

I have the right to decide with whom and where I associate or do business with, offer employment to, support with my financial and material wealth or engage in agreements of any kind.

I have the right to choose with whom I entrust the welfare of my children and to choose, what kind of people with what kind of values, lifestyles and methods of teaching they are exposed to in their educational life until they reach the age of their own deference.

I have the right to choose the amount, content, composition and description of each and every material item I purchase or contract and ageement I may enter into and from whom I choose to buy or procure it.

I have the right to give voice to my opinions on any and all subjects or actions that I choose, in any manner and by any media.

CW1 was fought over the worst issue any war’s ever been fought over. This secession were it to occur would be predicated on restoring the sovereign rights guaranteed by OUR CREATOR and laid out in the Constitution. It would be based on securing freedom not the right to continue enslaving people. Utterly different in every respect and really more like the Revolution than the Civil War.

“It aint happening. Dont even talk about it. Dont even think it.”

Millions upon millions of your fellow Americans are indeed talking and thinking about it.

There isn’t a petition limit for secession, but a standing rule on the WH website that if any petition, about anything, garners at least 25,000 or so signatures, the President will respond to it. That is all.

75
posted on 11/14/2012 2:26:44 PM PST
by fwdude
( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)

As of Wednesday morning, 37 states had posted petitions on the White House website to secede from the United States of America. (Some not-so-brilliant citizens of Georgia and South Carolina actually have two different secession postings each, but I'm counting those knuckleheads only once.)

So SF Chronicle editor, you are calling people who believes in the CONSTITUTION knuckleheads?? No, A$$wipes, knuckleheads are LIBERALS and moderates who let MARXISTS like Barry STOMP on the constitution!!

I'm sorry to report that this not-so-illustrious group includes California, where nearly 7,000 citizens have signed a petition quoting the Declaration of Independence and insisting on the right to set up their own government.

7,000 people signed in CA? I guess JimRoberson knows 7,000 good Americans in CA!!

This is clearly part of a movement to draft all the states, and Lord knows that there are certainly enough foolish people in each and every state in the union who would be willing to put their name on anything at all. But seeing as this country did fight the most bloody war in its history over the secession of the chattel slavery-holding states, it's sad to see that those are the same states that currently boast the most popular secession petitions.

Louisiana (around 30,000 signatures). Florida (about 24,000). South Carolina (around 28,000). Alabama (nearing the 23,000 mark). And last but never least, Texas, which rates as the state most likely to secede at more than 80,000

Are you morons at sanFranChronicle trying to say that we want to bring SLAVERY back?? No, we are ENSLAVED by the GOVERNMENT!!!

78
posted on 11/14/2012 2:29:30 PM PST
by ExCTCitizen
(More Republicans stayed home then the margin of victory of O's Win...)

Without being too flippant, wasn't this decided in 1861-65, where the answer was that the side with the largest army got to make the succession rules?

Not really. It was only decided for that particular instance. And the winning side had to bypass the Constitution in many ways to get it done. (Read one of the many books on how Lincoln acted in many non-Constitutional ways.) The issue of secession is not settled in the least. And who is to say who would have the biggest army this time?

Most of the leftists I know would not want us to secede only because they want to control us and make us work and give them our pay check. Now that they can win elections mostly by fraud and promising welfare they need slaves to pay for it.

All you would have to do is announce a flat tax for the Republic of North America and an absolute abolition to ALL social welfare programs, perhaps exempting social security for ONLY those elderly who have ACTUALLY paid into it for most of their working lives. That and a free one way ticket to the land of Obozo "phones" for all who want them.

The deadbeats would flock to the north and the productive few left up north would flock south. Then pop some corn, sit back, and watch the “zombie Apocalypse" up north unfold! They`d soon be eating their way thru the leftists like a horde of locusts on a wheat crop!

When the USSR collapsed in the early 90s, its vassal states inside and outside of it declared their independence and the Kremlin was powerless to prevent it.

That is more than likely what will happen in our case. There won't have to be any (or much) shooting, and the Feds won't be able to do anything about it. And the required financial collapse is just around the corner. We better start thinking now about how to take advantage of it.

Wrong. The War Between the States was not fought over slavery. It originated in a fight over the extent of states rights and the usurpation of these rights by the Federal government. Slavery wasn't the primary issue for 1 1/2 to 2 years into the war, and was put forward by Lincoln as a way to keep the north fighting (and to win re-election). If slavery wasn't brought to the forefront as the "primary" issue of the war, the north would not have re-elected Lincoln and would have sued for peace shortly thereafter, just to end things. It was a VERY unpopular war in the north until the slavery issue was manipulated by Lincoln. (A quite clever way, actually, to get what he wanted out of the war: a very strong federal government with essentially unlimited powers, and a way to hamstring the political power of the south. It was all about politics and federal versus state governmental power.)

Which is why we should let them all go. Most of those states get more from the federal government than they pay in. Classic takers. I’d be happy to see them all cut their ties and save the rest of us makers a lot of money.

The biggest issues would be ... who gets stuck with the national debt, and what happens to federally owned lands (much of the west of owned by the federal government)

Easy: the national debt goes with what is left of the original USA (mostly "blue states"); all previous federally-owned land in the seceeding states reverts to the individual states, to be handled as they see fit (hopefully to start drilling/mining on, as needed and feasible).

This is disingenuous.
The very reason for the friction between North and South WAS slavery; the “states rights” at issue were those cases where the South demanded the North honor Southern slaveowners property rights.
Why did South Carolina secede ? What justifications did they use ? The answer is quite clear. It was at bottom a matter of slavery.

From the South Carolina Declaration of Secession, the complaint that precipitated the act is clearly specified -

“The Constitution of the United States, in its fourth Article, provides as follows: “No person held to service or labor in one State, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up, on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due.”

This stipulation was so material to the compact, that without it that compact would not have been made. The greater number of the contracting parties held slaves, and they had previously evinced their estimate of the value of such a stipulation by making it a condition in the Ordinance for the government of the territory ceded by Virginia, which now composes the States north of the Ohio River.

The same article of the Constitution stipulates also for rendition by the several States of fugitives from justice from the other States. “

Basically they were complaining that the Northern states had passed laws declaring slaveowners property rights unenforceable in the North.

Nope. It its aggregate the value of 4 million slaves represented the largest privately held asset in the world in 1860: 4 billion dollars (2.4 TRILLION in 2010 dollars) and the southern politicians, nearly all slaveholders, knew as new states were admitted it was only a matter of time until slavery was outlawed by simple majority vote.

See, as you both stated, it is about property and property rights, and the valuation and compensation (if deprived of the property) thereof. Slaves were the property involved, but it is not about slavery, per se, but the monetary value involved.

Slavery was dying in the south by the time of the civil war. It was becoming uneconomical, and wasn’t a real popular institution anywhere. If some sort of agreement had been able to be reached concerning some sort of compensation to relinquish slaves, I think it would have been a moot issue in less than 10 years. Lincoln actually looked into doing something like this, but was unable to get anywhere with it, as the abolitionists would have nothing to do with it; and the south was beyond listening to anything the north said at this point. (Remember that Lincoln was of the school of thought that wanted to remove all the blacks, just not slaves, back to Africa. He wasn’t the “great emanicipator” that is taught in schools.)

It is a LOT more complicated than a war over slavery. Education does this great struggle a grave injustice by simplifying it to the good north and the bad south. But, the winners get to write history... Moral is: don’t lose.

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