AnimalAffinity wrote:I thought it would be nice for them I hate seeing birds in cages

Oh I do agree and in an ideal world I would love to give mine the freedom to fly outdoors as nature intended. I do hope I can compromise and build a big outdoor aviary for them one day though.If a bird did get lost (and there is a high risk of that) they would be unable to survive as they could not adapt quickly enough, don't know about predators, finding shelter etc. in my mind that's pure cruelty, extremely stressful and traumatic for the bird even if you were lucky and got it back. Then there's the risk of them catching something from the wild birds, malnutrition, dehydration, injury etc.

In my case if we were really lucky Ollie might go to someone as he is really people orientated but I couldn't count on that (or that person letting it be known they had found him or give him a good life). I know for a fact Harlie wouldn't go to a stranger, she would die a sad, lonely, scared and painful death should she ever get out, maybe she would get taken by a predator so the end would be quicker for her but I know there would never be a good outcome if she flew away. Its just too risky imo no matter how well they are trained.

PS nobody is biting your head off but sometimes its hard to put things into words in such a way they will be taken how they are meant. This thread is full of kindness cuz we do see your dream but the trouble with dreams are that they aren't always nice ones and our aim is to just try to make you see the reality of it and it is a lot more likely to turn out to be a nightmare than you would think.

It is not my intent to bite you head off or to be unkind to you in any way, and I am sorry that I don't know how to put some things as nicely as others would want or as gently as I would like, but sometime the truth of a matter must be stated even if it is not nice in its delivery as it is still kinder than the outcome would otherwise be. I would much rather be a bit harsh and spare you the anguish that comes the instant that your bird flies and does not turn to return and that is the very least of what you would go through if and when this occurs to you from outdoor free flight. Because in all honesty if you do this it is not a matter of if it will occur, it is simply a matter of when. And as much as I want to spare you that pales in comparison to my desire to spare your bird the fate that awaits it given the circumstances that it would then face, and I can assure you that a quick death would be much kinder to it. To be even more honest there really and truly should not be one single healthy bird in any humans house or care, there should be no pet birds at all, except in the case of injury or short term curable illnesses.

AnimalAffinity wrote:Please don't bite my head of I'm here asking to see up opinions I see it's not worth it, and I love the gym idea. I do love my birds.

My dear, I am sorry if anybody came through as trying to chew your head off. It seems to me that you are quite young and, just like all young people, think that you know better than anybody else (I am not putting you down, this is a fact of life, I was young myself and remember very well that I thought I knew more than my parents, same as my children thought they knew more than me, and my grandchildren think they know more than their parents). Our concern is for the birds and, I have to tell you that you come through yourself as a bit unreasonable and overly confident. You want an IRN, one of the most difficult birds to keep tame (I wouldn't even try it!) and the fact that you have no experience whatsoever with even moderately difficult species, that you have no income or house of your own and that you are not even going to be there physically for the bird in a couple of years -all things that will affect the bird and your relationship with it negatively in a BIG way- made no difference to you when we mentioned them. Now, I am not saying this to make you feel bad but I have to tell you that this attitude is exactly the opposite a good birdkeeper would have. Parrots are difficult animals to keep as pets and you better be not only 100% committed to them but you better have the time, the resources, the experience and the infrastructure or you will end up with a bird with problems. You say that your family will 'help' with the bird when you are away at college but unless the parent who is a stay-at-home (and this is a requirement with IRNs) is a bird lover with experience in difficult species of parrots (and, if this was the case, you would already have parrots in your house), this whole plan is doomed from the start. Now you are talking about training birds for free-flight outdoors when you have zero experience in training birds and, my dear, I have to tell you, you are way too overly confident in skills that you simply don't yet know if you have or not and that does not bode well for you or your birds.

I can't speak for anyone else on these matters, but I can assure you that I am not making more of it than it really is. If I am guilty of anything it is of not going into enough detail, but otherwise, I am only speaking from personal knowledge and telling you the truth even if I downplay it a little bit. IRN's, I don't have a lot of experience with and so I try to stay with species wide well researched information so I can't say more than I already have about them which has not been much. Pajarita has somewhere in excess of 30 years of experience with various species of parrots and so it might be good to listen to what she does have to say. You will do as you will do and I have freely given my opinion as I was asked to do. It is up to you what you do with that information. I think that you should look into all of the things that you are wanting to do, but look at both sides of the issues or you will only have an incomplete picture.

No parrot species makes a good pet and all parrot species can make good companions. It depends entirely on the way you look at things and the amount of time, work, commitment, etc that you want to put into it.

Personally, if I were in your shoes, I would sit down with my parents and ask them exactly what they would be willing to do during the time that you are away at college because, I might as well tell you that, by the time you come back, the parrot will no longer be your bird but theirs.

Thing is I have been waiting a year, I would love nothing more than to spend every waking minute with my parrot and if I keep getting parrots as stepping stones to the next, I'll end up like a hoarder. I just want my dream bird I have been researching for a year and have all appropriate supplies, my friends and family all love my pets and helping me out I won't be in college for another 3 years and I know I could work something out. I just can't stop thinking about the babies I saw in the store. Do u really think it's a bad idea I just want one soo bad, its getting to be an obsession. Lol