Is that the campground just west of Munising, with Grand Island in the distance?

bobby_b

And, in case anyone was wondering, swimming in Superior during the big Memorial Day afternoon picnic - even with the temperature being 80 degrees or so - really called for lots more beers beforehand than any of us had suspected.

And so, it was bitterly, lung-paralyzingly cold. In case anyone wondered.

Here in MN, we're all burning lots of dirty coal mixed with sludge oil from the tanker scrapings.

Not for heat or anything. Just in 55-gallon drums, to get that carbon dioxide drifting up to join the greenhouse ceiling. C'mon, warming!

Now. a non-kneejerk question... is this historically typical, or is it unusual? I suspect and presume the latter, but am wondering if it's colder than typical (suggesting that AGW is as whack as I believe it to be) or is it typical (suggesting... pretty much nothing either way, which is anti-AGW indicative, but notably less so).

Matthew Slyfield

See the link I posted below. This is the largest ice extent for this late in the year since the start of the satellite era, This is a long enough time period to conclude that it is a-typical.

rst1317

Yes, it's the largest extent since Reagan was in office. But that doesn't make it a-typical. 30 years isn't a very long period of time. Lake Superior is too far North for this sort of thing to happen on a somewhat regular basis.

Nehemiah

I'm with you Bobby B. It is amazing how well Al Gore's carbon credit plan (scheme) has worked. Stopped that warming in its tracks and actually reversed the trend line. I'm thinking its time for a carbon debit scheme, I mean plan. You pay me money, I'll cut down and burn a tree.

Canvasback

You mean South?

Canvasback

Whatever. It's a nice picture.

O Yeah

I was informed by a friend that the presence of ICE in the lake when the air temperature is warm is an example to the Government practicing Geo-engineering like the drought in California to keep the Fukushima radiation from reaching the US shores.

Matthew Slyfield

No, he means too far north for this sort of thing to not happen on a somewhat regular basis.

Matthew Slyfield

"30 years isn't a very long period of time."

30 years is the standard period used by the warmists to define climate normals, why shouldn't we use that against them when things go the other way?

"Lake Superior is too far North for this sort of thing to happen on a somewhat regular basis."

Sure, if you are talking about geologic time scales, which the average person can't comprehend. Personally, I wouldn't describe something that happens once or twice in a human lifespan as happening on a "somewhat regular basis"

rst1317

Sorry, i did mean for too far north for it to not happen.

marque2

My Facebook is full of people pics where the people were standing on the icebergs in Superior. It isn't a trivial top coat. Some of the ice is a few feet deep.

marque2

Maybe 34 years is enough for him?

marque2

By the way - wait until 2016 when it happens again and then all the alarmists will tell us it is a normal occurrence.

Matthew Slyfield

No, they will either try to claim that ice on lake Superior so late in the year is caused by global warming or they will try to claim that their used to be much more ice and the vanishing summer ice is a major problem.

obloodyhell

I'd pay if they'd burn some tree huggers while they were at it...

marque2

Our statements are actually complementary. First they would claim it is normal and then like you say will claim that it is vanishing at a greater rate each year.

obloodyhell

Yeah, spotted that after I posted. Good link.

marque2

Largest extent since Carter has been in office. 34 years.

marque2

South is now north and north is becoming south. I blame Climate Change.

http://EasyOpinions.blogspot.com/ Andrew_M_Garland

15 years of non-warming is enough time to invalidate the warmist climate models because they specifically predicted rapid, continuing warming.

200 years is not enough time to actually model the Earth's climate. We just don't know all of the variations which are or can be produced naturally. We can measure trends on 10 year time scales, but how is it possible to make any predictions?

It amazes me that warmist "science" is based at all on measurements of plants (trees) growing 500 years ago. How do we calibrate plants? Are we crazy enough as a species to form national energy policy on the fossilized growth patterns of say 100 plants in Siberia? It is mind boggling.

EasyOpinions.blogspot.com

marque2

Icebergs - this years lettuce crop should be great!

marque2

17 years 9 months of no warming.

marque2

Immigration and Customs Enforcement in the lake can only mean one thing. They are helping illegal immigrants move to Wisconsin to help the anti Scott Walker vote and to help elect officials in Michigan amenable to continuing the subsidies to Detroit.

marque2

Is it Dry ice?

FelineCannonball

Cold snap/heat wave nonsense. If one is irrelevant for validifying model results, the other is irrelevant for refuting them. At least be consistent.

marque2

I don't think the consistency problem is with the skeptics. Have a storm blows in and we hear it is all die to global warming - skeptics make jokes about cooling after an ENTIRE winter of much colder weather and the alarmist have to remind us it is weather not climate.

Talk about being one sided and needing reminders.

FelineCannonball

18 years since the largest El Niño in recorded history. The word you're looking for isn't "weather," it's "ocean-atmosphere oscillation." Unremarkably, an unusual large pool of warm water in the middle of the largest ocean in the world has an effect on global air temperatures. To be fair you should reset the "no warming since" clock in 2010, and likely once again in 2014 / 2015.

marque2

16 years since that El Nino - and NOAA has been goosing the numbers ever since to keep the temps from falling to on greatly from that level. Without the goosing the temps.have probably dropped 0.6 degC since 1998. Even with goosing - NOAA hasn't been able to credibly "correct" the numbers enough to hide the tenth degree decline.

Yes ocean oscillations - the alarmists tried to deny they existed.

FelineCannonball

Scientists have had a pretty good grasp on ENSO for over 50 years. Darwin actually made some prescient observations and interpretations on the Beagle on related atmospheric teleconnections. While the details of effects are complicated, the idea that a giant warm pool (and suppressed upwelling) has impacts on atmospheric processes and temperature is obvious.

marque2

I am well aware that there are cool and warm periods of approximately 30 years in both the Atlantic and Pacific and am sure Darwin recorded this - which is why it is extra bizarre that the climate science scaremongers have been working so hard to pretend these things don't exist - along with a denial of various warm periods including the medieval warm period.

It is pretty sad - up to about 2004 the Pacific was in is warm period - but all the warming was attributed to AGW.

In fact Warren Meyer had a post where he showed a normal trend line increase due to natural warming from exiting the little ice age with the Pacific decidal oscillations and amazingly he conjured up the temperature trend line - something 194 models failed to do.