Joined: December 18th, 2008, 9:18 amPosts: 844Location: Where I lay my head is home

Re: Off-Season Moves

The FO obviously thought that having Fairley would give us the freedom to trade Suh, which is hard to argue aginst if we still have SLH. If only they can find a way to retain Sammie, Suh is trade bait come next year, which gives us at least a 1st rd pick so the ROI isn't all that bad.

March 7th, 2013, 2:52 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Off-Season Moves

DayDreamer wrote:

The FO obviously thought that having Fairley would give us the freedom to trade Suh, which is hard to argue aginst if we still have SLH. If only they can find a way to retain Sammie, Suh is trade bait come next year, which gives us at least a 1st rd pick so the ROI isn't all that bad.

I can't agree. I think the FO thought exactly what the "fans" thought, that we're going to have the best, young DT tandum in the NFL for the next decade, but that's quickly falling apart.

We SHOULD keep SLH with the idea that he's going to be a 2014 starter.

This team is phucked, top to bottom. It's ran as if there is no "plan" whatsoever.

The FO obviously thought that having Fairley would give us the freedom to trade Suh, which is hard to argue aginst if we still have SLH. If only they can find a way to retain Sammie, Suh is trade bait come next year, which gives us at least a 1st rd pick so the ROI isn't all that bad.

I can't agree. I think the FO thought exactly what the "fans" thought, that we're going to have the best, young DT tandum in the NFL for the next decade, but that's quickly falling apart.

We SHOULD keep SLH with the idea that he's going to be a 2014 starter.

This team is phucked, top to bottom. It's ran as if there is no "plan" whatsoever.

But they do have a plan, it's to have the best DT tandem in the NFL and build the defense through the pass rush. It seems to be a really bad plan so far, but its still a plan.

I also don't see Suh leaving that easily, the Lions will have to offer a big contract just because his rookie contract was so large and I'm betting they aren't afraid to do it. Even if the Lions just offer him an average salary equal to his current average salary they will be making him the top paid DT and he probably wont see any higher offers from any other teams. His cap hit is so large the next 2 years it's almost impossible for the Lions not to be able fit him back under the cap after his current contract falls off the books.

I'm still for trading Suh, but just because I think he's worth more in draft picks and cap space not because I don't think the Lions can keep the DT tandum together.

March 7th, 2013, 5:19 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Off-Season Moves

Suh staying is more disastrous than Suh leaving. You can argue the Lions could not have predicted Suhs success, but once they knew he was a superstar (which was before we drafted Fairly) we should have had a comprehensive plan to keep him or let him walk, and that plan should have included a way to find a cost effective DT to play next to him for little money. We had that in SLH.

You can also argue that we drafted Fairley to replace Suh because we knew his next K would be too big, but 1) that defies everything we know about this team, and 2) that would involve keeping SLH at all costs. Maybe we do that, but it's not looking likely.

In just a few short years Mayhew built and destroyed one of the best DLs in football... That takes a special level of incompetence...

Suh staying is more disastrous than Suh leaving. You can argue the Lions could not have predicted Suhs success, but once they knew he was a superstar (which was before we drafted Fairly) we should have had a comprehensive plan to keep him or let him walk, and that plan should have included a way to find a cost effective DT to play next to him for little money. We had that in SLH.

You can also argue that we drafted Fairley to replace Suh because we knew his next K would be too big, but 1) that defies everything we know about this team, and 2) that would involve keeping SLH at all costs. Maybe we do that, but it's not looking likely.

In just a few short years Mayhew built and destroyed one of the best DLs in football... That takes a special level of incompetence...

They may have been trying to extend SLH this whole time. The one reason why I don't think it's impossible SLH comes back is that they gave him a 4th rd tender last year and no one bit. The Lions may end up just paying him pseudo starter money to keep him since Fairley is so cheap for the next 2 years. If SLH is getting legit starter offers once FA starts it's still the same problem you have with Fairley in 2 years, but at least Fairley gives you another 2 years with two premium DTs.

I really don't think Fairley was brought in to replace Suh, the plan with Suh has most likely always been to just keep paying him and continue to funnel all their defensive money towards the rest of the line. I think their plan has always been to pay a bunch of premium players on the dline and just use scraps and draft picks for the rest of the defense. May hew was willing to pay $10M almost completely guaranteed to keep Avril, so I can see him planning to pay big money at both DT spots. They may also feel that they can find DEs for the wide9 easier than DTs.

I really don't like how they seem to be building the defense, but I would say it's wrong to say they don't have a plan and I think it's to early yet to say they destroyed the dline because there are a lot of undersized pass rusher in the draft/Free agency.

March 7th, 2013, 6:01 pm

Shotty

Millen Draft Pick - Epic Bust

Joined: July 3rd, 2012, 2:06 amPosts: 730

Re: Off-Season Moves

I only see us paying SLH over $2 million a year if Suh is traded. Other than that happening, I think Mayhew will let him go and give Suh an absolutely absurd contract next offseason. Just my opinion, though.

_________________

March 7th, 2013, 6:09 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Off-Season Moves

rao wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

Suh staying is more disastrous than Suh leaving. You can argue the Lions could not have predicted Suhs success, but once they knew he was a superstar (which was before we drafted Fairly) we should have had a comprehensive plan to keep him or let him walk, and that plan should have included a way to find a cost effective DT to play next to him for little money. We had that in SLH.

You can also argue that we drafted Fairley to replace Suh because we knew his next K would be too big, but 1) that defies everything we know about this team, and 2) that would involve keeping SLH at all costs. Maybe we do that, but it's not looking likely.

In just a few short years Mayhew built and destroyed one of the best DLs in football... That takes a special level of incompetence...

They may have been trying to extend SLH this whole time. The one reason why I don't think it's impossible SLH comes back is that they gave him a 4th rd tender last year and no one bit. The Lions may end up just paying him pseudo starter money to keep him since Fairley is so cheap for the next 2 years. If SLH is getting legit starter offers once FA starts it's still the same problem you have with Fairley in 2 years, but at least Fairley gives you another 2 years with two premium DTs.

I really don't think Fairley was brought in to replace Suh, the plan with Suh has most likely always been to just keep paying him and continue to funnel all their defensive money towards the rest of the line. I think their plan has always been to pay a bunch of premium players on the dline and just use scraps and draft picks for the rest of the defense. May hew was willing to pay $10M almost completely guaranteed to keep Avril, so I can see him planning to pay big money at both DT spots. They may also feel that they can find DEs for the wide9 easier than DTs.

I really don't like how they seem to be building the defense, but I would say it's wrong to say they don't have a plan and I think it's to early yet to say they destroyed the dline because there are a lot of undersized pass rusher in the draft/Free agency.

I agree with you in terms of money. I'm shocked that the article says that he's getting looked at for offers to start. That said, SLH will never make Fairley money, IMO. He's a run stuffing DT that will never put up the type of numbers needed to generate a big payday. That's the differnce between he and Fairley. Fairley will get those numbers, and he was a former first round pick. Like it or not, that helps add to the money that they can command.

The reason I say it appears that we don't have a plan is... We drafted Suh and claimed we wanted to have this killer DL. We had SLH before we drafted Fairley and SLH looked to have starter capabilities. We could have had SLH step in cheap as a starter and offset some of the monster money that everyone knows that Suh is going to get. Suh is going to get a Haynesworth type of contract. He's looked at throughout the league as a superstar. The DL that Mayhew wanted to have is unraveling before his eyes. We're losing Avril, we lost KVB and we SHOULD lose Suh with Fairley on the team. You can't keep both. Fairley is going to make $6.5+ per year after his rookie deal. You can't have your DTs making nearly $30 million per year.

There seems to have been no plan to offset Suh's contract, no plan keep both Suh and Fairley, the plan seemed devoid of what to do with SLH's wasted talent on this team, we lost KVB and we SHOULD lose Avril.... What the phuck was the plan again???

On top of that we could have drafted a very good CB in Prince A, and he's someone that could have and would have helped this team through our playoff run, and our lone playoff game, while Fairley was largely sitting on his duff. Prince A is someone that could have helped Houston, softened the blow if Houston left, and bolstered our abysmal secondary.

Prince A would have helped us retain Suh, solidify our D, and saved us money in the long-run, substituting SLH for Fairley in the lineup. Prince A was the right pick, but Mayhew never sees this chit coming, ever. It's the guy is blind.

Suh staying is more disastrous than Suh leaving. You can argue the Lions could not have predicted Suhs success, but once they knew he was a superstar (which was before we drafted Fairly) we should have had a comprehensive plan to keep him or let him walk, and that plan should have included a way to find a cost effective DT to play next to him for little money. We had that in SLH.

You can also argue that we drafted Fairley to replace Suh because we knew his next K would be too big, but 1) that defies everything we know about this team, and 2) that would involve keeping SLH at all costs. Maybe we do that, but it's not looking likely.

In just a few short years Mayhew built and destroyed one of the best DLs in football... That takes a special level of incompetence...

They may have been trying to extend SLH this whole time. The one reason why I don't think it's impossible SLH comes back is that they gave him a 4th rd tender last year and no one bit. The Lions may end up just paying him pseudo starter money to keep him since Fairley is so cheap for the next 2 years. If SLH is getting legit starter offers once FA starts it's still the same problem you have with Fairley in 2 years, but at least Fairley gives you another 2 years with two premium DTs.

I really don't think Fairley was brought in to replace Suh, the plan with Suh has most likely always been to just keep paying him and continue to funnel all their defensive money towards the rest of the line. I think their plan has always been to pay a bunch of premium players on the dline and just use scraps and draft picks for the rest of the defense. May hew was willing to pay $10M almost completely guaranteed to keep Avril, so I can see him planning to pay big money at both DT spots. They may also feel that they can find DEs for the wide9 easier than DTs.

I really don't like how they seem to be building the defense, but I would say it's wrong to say they don't have a plan and I think it's to early yet to say they destroyed the dline because there are a lot of undersized pass rusher in the draft/Free agency.

I agree with you in terms of money. I'm shocked that the article says that he's getting looked at for offers to start. That said, SLH will never make Fairley money, IMO. He's a run stuffing DT that will never put up the type of numbers needed to generate a big payday. That's the differnce between he and Fairley. Fairley will get those numbers, and he was a former first round pick. Like it or not, that helps add to the money that they can command.

The reason I say it appears that we don't have a plan is... We drafted Suh and claimed we wanted to have this killer DL. We had SLH before we drafted Fairley and SLH looked to have starter capabilities. We could have had SLH step in cheap as a starter and offset some of the monster money that everyone knows that Suh is going to get. Suh is going to get a Haynesworth type of contract. He's looked at throughout the league as a superstar. The DL that Mayhew wanted to have is unraveling before his eyes. We're losing Avril, we lost KVB and we SHOULD lose Suh with Fairley on the team. You can't keep both. Fairley is going to make $6.5+ per year after his rookie deal. You can't have your DTs making nearly $30 million per year.

There seems to have been no plan to offset Suh's contract, no plan keep both Suh and Fairley, the plan seemed devoid of what to do with SLH's wasted talent on this team, we lost KVB and we SHOULD lose Avril.... What the phuck was the plan again???

On top of that we could have drafted a very good CB in Prince A, and he's someone that could have and would have helped this team through our playoff run, and our lone playoff game, while Fairley was largely sitting on his duff. Prince A is someone that could have helped Houston, softened the blow if Houston left, and bolstered our abysmal secondary.

Prince A would have helped us retain Suh, solidify our D, and saved us money in the long-run, substituting SLH for Fairley in the lineup. Prince A was the right pick, but Mayhew never sees this chit coming, ever. It's the guy is blind.

The problem with where your going with SLH is I don't think they ever felt like he could be a full time starter for their scheme. They want the undertackle type of guys not the hole plugging big guy SLH is. I think the plan to offset Suh's contract comes from using cheap guys in the secondary. Again I'm not saying it's going to work, but their plan has always seemed to be fine with paying so much money to the DTs even Williams didn't have a cheap contract. The only person at DT they were saving on was SLH. The line losing players now has more to do with Mayhew underestimating Avril's contract demands and not doing something about it last year.

I'm fine with them not taking Prince. He really isn't any different than Fairley, he was hurt most of his rookie season and hasn't proven anymore than Fairley has so far. Prince isn't a playmaker and now with the Lions losing Avril it makes it even more important that they have Fairley to help create pressure with Suh. For some reason their plan starts from the interior of the Dline instead of the ends like the Giants, so if it's going to work it's going to be with their DTs making a majority of the money on defense.

March 7th, 2013, 7:13 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Off-Season Moves

rao wrote:

The problem with where your going with SLH is I don't think they ever felt like he could be a full time starter for their scheme. They want the undertackle type of guys not the hole plugging big guy SLH is. I think the plan to offset Suh's contract comes from using cheap guys in the secondary. Again I'm not saying it's going to work, but their plan has always seemed to be fine with paying so much money to the DTs even Williams didn't have a cheap contract. The only person at DT they were saving on was SLH. The line losing players now has more to do with Mayhew underestimating Avril's contract demands and not doing something about it last year.

I'm fine with them not taking Prince. He really isn't any different than Fairley, he was hurt most of his rookie season and hasn't proven anymore than Fairley has so far. Prince isn't a playmaker and now with the Lions losing Avril it makes it even more important that they have Fairley to help create pressure with Suh. For some reason their plan starts from the interior of the Dline instead of the ends like the Giants, so if it's going to work it's going to be with their DTs making a majority of the money on defense.

If our plan is to have two great DTs and have everyone else suck, that's a horrible plan. That really is the only explanation if you want to stick up for Mayhew, but IMO that's a garbage plan.

At end 2011 season, we looked like we had a fantastic future at the DL unit. Yes KVB would obviously always wear down pretty quick, and potentially C.Will too, but with Suh, Fairly, SLH, Avril, Young and LoJack we looked like we had the core of a very good unit that would stick around for some time.

Fast forward just one year, and it's in shambles. We have two star DTs (who will likely only be on the field together on passing downs, the rest of the time will sub for each other) and that's about it.

When you've built a D that has average (at best) linebacking, and a secondary that is a continuous patchwork quilt of personnel, and you've done that on the assumption that your killer line will mask those issues - finding ourselves in this position is incredible.

March 8th, 2013, 5:48 am

DayDreamer

National Champion

Joined: December 18th, 2008, 9:18 amPosts: 844Location: Where I lay my head is home

Re: Off-Season Moves

I just read that Delams is on the way to Allen park for a physical, good to know that they're doing the due diligence for his resigning.

March 8th, 2013, 12:45 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Off-Season Moves

DayDreamer wrote:

I just read that Delams is on the way to Allen park for a physical, good to know that they're doing the due diligence for his resigning.

I agree, but if they do re-sign him, it's going to be bitter sweet. He's good, but can't stay healthy. I hope we get him for 1/2 price, cause he only ever plays 1/2 a season...

March 8th, 2013, 1:26 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Off-Season Moves

UK Lion wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

The DL that Mayhew wanted to have is unraveling before his eyes.

This much I agree with.

At end 2011 season, we looked like we had a fantastic future at the DL unit. Yes KVB would obviously always wear down pretty quick, and potentially C.Will too, but with Suh, Fairly, SLH, Avril, Young and LoJack we looked like we had the core of a very good unit that would stick around for some time.

Fast forward just one year, and it's in shambles. We have two star DTs (who will likely only be on the field together on passing downs, the rest of the time will sub for each other) and that's about it.

When you've built a D that has average (at best) linebacking, and a secondary that is a continuous patchwork quilt of personnel, and you've done that on the assumption that your killer line will mask those issues - finding ourselves in this position is incredible.

It really is remarkable the lack of contingency plan, or lack of ANY sort of visible plan (other than potentially keeping Suh and Fairley together at all costs, including having a putrid 9 other D players).

We even really have "average, at best" DEs. Our ONLY position of strength is at DT, and its going to rest with two players if we allow SLH to walk.

What Mayhew has done with this D personnel wise is ridiculous.

March 8th, 2013, 1:27 pm

regularjoe12

Off. Coordinator – Joe Lombardi

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 4006Location: Davison Mi

Re: Off-Season Moves

Quote:

What Mayhew has done with this D personnel wise is ridiculous.

now this is something i can agree with 100000000%

It's getting embarassing

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

March 8th, 2013, 1:46 pm

inheritedlionsfan

Team MVP

Joined: January 13th, 2006, 4:18 amPosts: 3461Location: Maryland

Re: Off-Season Moves

wjb21ndtown wrote:

DayDreamer wrote:

I just read that Delams is on the way to Allen park for a physical, good to know that they're doing the due diligence for his resigning.

I agree, but if they do re-sign him, it's going to be bitter sweet. He's good, but can't stay healthy. I hope we get him for 1/2 price, cause he only ever plays 1/2 a season...

I'm hoping if he's signed, it's a 2-3 incentive laden deal. If you play, and play well, we pay. If not, you're cheap. Plain and simple.