The idea that water's memory and specifically hydrogen can be changed by thought/intent is a relatively new and exciting development. I have no idea how (or if) homeopathy works, but if it does, it is probably working on this same principle. I don't think your alcohol example is a fair one, because alcohol causes a process of dehydration that is in direct conflict with what water actually does. I think what homeopathy assumes to function on is that what is filtered through the water leaves its energetic imprint.

One interesting thing mentioned in the radio interview was that at some lab in Germany in the 1960s, a completely sealed ampule filled with toxic biochemical agents fell into a pitcher of water and was left there for a few days. When they went to use the water, they found the ampule, took it out and tested the pitcher to make sure there was no leak of the toxic chemicals. The water tested fine but when they gave it to the lab rats, they all died.

The problem with superluminal information is that it is hard to verify. How do you know it has reached destination instantly if you don't have a way to "see" it? The notion of "instantly" must include the notion of simultaneity in the universe and I thought we agreed that it didn't exist; everything is relative to the observer's frame.

The instantaneous aspect isn't that hard to measure. They see the bacteria in the water react, measure the time. Time solar flares, subtract 9.5 minutes and compare the times - voila! If they happen at the same time, they happened at the same time. I think you're talking about a different kind of simultaneity, one in which two moments can't occur at the same time - I don't see why you can't compare two measurements. They've also done experiments where you separate a person's skin cells from well, them, and take them any distance anyway. If you stimulate the skin of the person, the skin cells away from the body react at the same time. Einstein himself admitted that his theories fall apart at the quantum level, but I think they are certainly still relative (hah) in the third dimension. If we consider that the 3rd dimension is enfolded within the 4th, then something that communicates in a dimension above ours would not have to follow any 3D rules about superluminal communication. If elements, animals and humans have an underlying 4th dimensional connection then this makes perfect sense. We now have numerous examples of all three of these different levels of consciousness seeming to have some sort of superconscious aspect.

Even a DVD which is simply plastic stores a wealth of information that can only be read with the proper laser and output device. Is it so radical to believe that perhaps water/hydrogen stores information in a similar manner, and we just don't have the proper equivalent of the laser to make that information available?

Millsley wrote:They see the bacteria in the water react, measure the time. Time solar flares, subtract 9.5 minutes and compare the times - voila!

Hum, that's right, Millsley, it could work that way.

You know, I am open to any new idea. I just love to go to bed and think about things like that, trying to get deeper into the matter; whatever it is. I think a day without learning something new is a bad day. I am curious about everything.

You have known me for a time on this forum and you know that I never try to prove that I know better than any one else. That is because - with the exeption for example of Cadaver who is a provocateur - I believe that we are all honest with our beliefs and I cannot know better what you think.

But you must admit that if hydrogen has the property to transfer information instantly, it must be the greatest thing known to manking because it rocks entirely the concept of Relativity.

I simply then wonder why it doesn't make the cover of Time Magazine.

By the lack of simulataneity, I mean to say that I think - note: I think - that I understand Relativity in that sense that each frame of space is attached to a frame of space. They are separate universes, in a sense. They are not both "here and now." When I see the sun last ray over the horizon, I know that the sun is not there; that's where it was some minutes ago. A simple concept but I am a simple mind!

Well there have been plenty of experiments that very much seem to exhibit faster-than-light travel. However no concrete theory with the elegant simplicity of Relativity has been able to explain it. The experimental results are there, but to really "prove" it to the hard-nosed mainstream scientific establishment there has to be some solid mathematical basis. A lot of these consciousness-researchers' experiments are not even allowed in mainstream scientific journals (less so in Russia), which exacerbates the serious stifling of thought and lack of money going towards these important issues. Right now the hydrogen thing is just conjecture, but how else would the bacteria and the sun be able to communicate so quickly? The only element they share is hydrogen, and it makes sense to me that a sun and its planets (and everything else, for that matter!) should have some primal form of communication available.

Interestingly enough, they've even designed a faster-than-light warp drive that breaks no rules of physics, by moving spacetime instead of the actual object (getting it to work may take a couple hundred years though)

I understand Relativity in that sense that each frame of space is attached to a frame of space. They are separate universes, in a sense. They are not both "here and now."

Did you mean that each frame of space is attached to a time? That makes sense to me, but in the flipside of our universe (what Gevin Giorbran talks about as anti-time), where THE frame of time is attached to a single space, would it also make sense that an element could interact with itself across time into one space? Could we just be stumbling upon reactions that don't make logical sense from our moment-locked view in spacetime? Who knows! It's crazy stuff.

Millsley wrote:Did you mean that each frame of space is attached to a time?

Well ... what I mean is exactly what is said in the Discovery News you gave us the link to, Millsley. Of course, if you could drag the spacetime web ... using the entire mass of Jupiter converted to energy, as they write.

You know, if I felt I knew, I would write a book, a website, a blog, but every morning - as I have said earlier - I get up with the same question and don't get passed it: Is the universe created or simply is? It could be a predeterministic universe, created by a cosmic force to a purpose.

Or it can be random: things are because they can. I have no problem to think about the entire universe being on consciousness and hydrogen having a memory but then I have to understand the following:

As for evolution, the anthropic universe has no moral, only logic. We have eyes because it can help us to find food. The stars exist because there is enough gravity to keep them together. But then, what's the logic in a common hydrogen memory? If I am going down that road then I feel that I need to add a component of divine nature: thus conflicting with my first branching: Is the universe by design or by random?

Thanks Fmonroy but ... you know, if really ice crystals are of a certain shape because of the "thought" they have received ... hasn't this been reproduced in many different laboratories?
I remember, some years ago, two engineers came up with the dream to all source of energy: Cold fusion. Unfortunately, the was more energy going in the system than what was coming out. But, as soon as it was published, the entire scientific world went to try to reproduce the process ... alas to no avail.

If this "memory of the water" could be demonstrated repeatedly at different places, would it make the title of Time Magazine and a certain Nobel Prize? Furthermore, it would rock not only the world of science but that of philosophy and religion. It would make water "spiritual."

You know, nine years ago, I was flying a flight simulator with a gang of internet friends in the Canadian Rocky Mountains, west of Calgary. One of the missions was to intercept a UFO landing site. We had great fun! Special sceneries were made for the occasion and we were flying together in formation over the internet. Our guest, a Canadian from Calgary, went berserk with the story and we were all abducted in a spaceship. (The model of those were made by the guy. Nearly unflyable but great fun!)

Anyway, following my line of story (my virtual pilot's name is: Mike Skybuster) I came to meet the Great Alien Priest.

Perhaps because I was at the same time doing a lot of reading and thinking, the fictive story of the virtual Canada and my thought fused in one and I told everyone that the Great Alien Priest had told me the secret of the universe, which is this: "The universe is simple. So simple that any child can understand it. But we have to think in a different way we are used to and that's why the answer isn't there yet. You simply can't formulate it with words."

Now, I know that it was only a story. But the idea came to me as a epiphany. And it is still in my brain.

Consider this: on the path of understanding, we are nowhere. Well, maybe somewhere but certainly not at the end. We still need to learn a lot.

It you imagine a stoneage man that has his concept of the universe: a flat disk extending to the horizon, covered by a hemisphere where heavenly bodies hang - and then you tell him: Sir, the universe is billions of light years big and is made of billions galaxies where we are only on a single planet of a single star of one of them.

What would he say? He would say: "Wow! Far out, man!" (Yea, it was a old hippie caveman!)

But would he understand or would he need to go to college and learn to write, count, read, math, etc. in order to understand?

I think he would ... understand ... but it would really blow his mind! Likewise, I think that The Answer to Life, the Universe and Everything is 42. In that sense that 42 is very simple but we can't (yet) understand the meaning of it because we are not made to understand that kind of stuff.

But the day we do, I think we will go in a big "wow!" as the stoneage man did.

Michel wrote:Thanks Fmonroy but ... you know, if really ice crystals are of a certain shape because of the "thought" they have received ... hasn't this been reproduced in many different laboratories?I remember, some years ago, two engineers came up with the dream to all source of energy: Cold fusion. Unfortunately, the was more energy going in the system than what was coming out. But, as soon as it was published, the entire scientific world went to try to reproduce the process ... alas to no avail.

Yes, and I hope soon other laboratories can replicate the phenomenon. Either result is interesting. The problem here is that most scientists reject the idea to include consciousness on their experiments. It can be fear to unveil something that can change their careers forever.

Michel wrote:If this "memory of the water" could be demonstrated repeatedly at different places, would it make the title of Time Magazine and a certain Nobel Prize? Furthermore, it would rock not only the world of science but that of philosophy and religion. It would make water "spiritual."

Yes, and that's the problem, the fight between science and religion. But already there are some pioneers on this field, so expect nice things in the near future.

Michel wrote:You know, nine years ago, I was flying a flight simulator with a gang of internet friends in the Canadian Rocky Mountains, west of Calgary. One of the missions was to intercept a UFO landing site. We had great fun! Special sceneries were made for the occasion and we were flying together in formation over the internet. Our guest, a Canadian from Calgary, went berserk with the story and we were all abducted in a spaceship. (The model of those were made by the guy. Nearly unflyable but great fun!)

Anyway, following my line of story (my virtual pilot's name is: Mike Skybuster) I came to meet the Great Alien Priest.

Perhaps because I was at the same time doing a lot of reading and thinking, the fictive story of the virtual Canada and my thought fused in one and I told everyone that the Great Alien Priest had told me the secret of the universe, which is this: "The universe is simple. So simple that any child can understand it. But we have to think in a different way we are used to and that's why the answer isn't there yet. You simply can't formulate it with words."

Now, I know that it was only a story. But the idea came to me as a epiphany. And it is still in my brain.

Wasn't it great? I recommend you The Alchemist from Paulo Coelho, follow your dreams my friend.

Michel wrote:Consider this: on the path of understanding, we are nowhere. Well, maybe somewhere but certainly not at the end. We still need to learn a lot.

It you imagine a stoneage man that has his concept of the universe: a flat disk extending to the horizon, covered by a hemisphere where heavenly bodies hang - and then you tell him: Sir, the universe is billions of light years big and is made of billions galaxies where we are only on a single planet of a single star of one of them.

What would he say? He would say: "Wow! Far out, man!" (Yea, it was a old hippie caveman!)

But would he understand or would he need to go to college and learn to write, count, read, math, etc. in order to understand?

I think he would ... understand ... but it would really blow his mind! Likewise, I think that The Answer to Life, the Universe and Everything is 42. In that sense that 42 is very simple but we can't (yet) understand the meaning of it because we are not made to understand that kind of stuff.

But the day we do, I think we will go in a big "wow!" as the stoneage man did.

Do I make sense or am I just getting too old?

Some people prefer 1, then 2, then ... 42. I prefer 42, I know I can't understant it completely, but that's what makes me seek the 2, then the 3; I don't care people think I'm nuts in fact a lot do