In Geneva this morning, Doctors Without Borders (MSF) demanded a formal, independent investigation into the U.S. airstrike on its hospital in Kunduz. The group’s international president, Dr. Joanne Liu (pictured above, center), specified that the inquiry should be convened pursuant to war crime-investigating procedures established by the Geneva Conventions and conducted by The International Humanitarian Fact-Finding Commission. “Even war has rules,” Liu said. “This was just not an attack on our hospital. It was an attack on the Geneva Conventions. This cannot be tolerated.”

Liu emphasized that the need for an “independent, impartial”investigation is now particularly compelling given what she called “the inconsistency in the U.S. and Afghan accounts of what happened over the recent days.” On Monday, we documented the multiple conflicting accounts offered in the first three days by the U.S. military and its media allies, but the story continued to change even further after that. As The Guardian’sheadline yesterday noted, the U.S. admission that its own personnel called in the airstrike — not Afghan forces as it claimed the day before — meant that “U.S. alters story for fourth time in four days.” All of this led Liu to state the obvious today: “We cannot rely on internal military investigations by the U.S., NATO and Afghan forces.”

An independent, impartial investigation into what happened here should be something everyone can immediately agree is necessary. But at its daily press briefing on Monday, the U.S. State Department, through its spokesperson Mark Toner, insisted that no such independent investigation was needed on the ground that the U.S. government is already investigating itself and everyone knows how trustworthy and reliable this process is:

QUESTION: The — so MSF is calling for an independent investigation of this incident by a neutral international body. Is that something the administration would support?

MR TONER:Well, we’ve got three investigations underway. Certainly, we’ve got our own DOD-led investigation. We obviously strongly believe that can be a very transparent and accountable investigation. Let’s let these three investigations run their course and see what the results are.

I would say — and I know the White House spoke about this earlier — we have reached out to some of the leadership in Médecins Sans Frontières to express our condolences over this tragic incident. But as to whether there needs to be an independent fourth investigation, we’re satisfied, I think, at this point that enough investigations are underway that we’ll get to the truth.

QUESTION: You don’t think that with the U.S., which is — which has an interest in how this investigation proceeds and what the outcome is, and being involved in all three investigations somehow affects the legitimacy of it?

MR TONER: I mean, frankly, I think we’ve proven over time that we can investigate incidents like these — like this, and as I said, hold anyone accountable who needs to be held accountable, and do it in such a way that’s transparent and, I think, credible.

QUESTION: Just along those lines —

MR TONER: Please.

QUESTION: — MSF has said that this is a clear presumption of a war crime that’s been committed here. Some have suggested that the ICC take it up. Is it a safe bet that the U.S. would vote against/veto any attempt in the Security Council to bring this incident for — up for an ICC investigation?

MR TONER: I don’t want to answer a hypothetical. On the war crime question itself, we’re just not there yet, and I don’t want to prejudge any outcome of any investigation.

Please, sir.

QUESTION: What do you mean, “We’re just not there yet”?

MR TONER: I mean we’re conducting investigations, we’re looking at this very closely, and we’re going to, as multiple folks have said including the president over the weekend — that we’re going to hold those accountable and it’s going to be a credible investigation.

QUESTION: Does that mean —

QUESTION: So it’s conceivable to you that this could have been a war crime?

MR TONER: I said we’re not — we’re letting the investigations run their course.

QUESTION: Well, regardless of whether or not you —

MR TONER: I’m not going to — I’m not even — yeah, please, Matt.

QUESTION: No, but I want to —

MR TONER: Sure, go ahead. Sorry.

QUESTION: Is it not — I mean, it’s always been assumed, I think — and I just want to know if this assumption is still safe — that the U.S. would oppose an attempt to refer an incident involving U.S. troops to the International Criminal Court.

MR TONER: That’s —

QUESTION: I mean, as it’s — as it was being formed, you guys ran around signing these Article 98 —

MR TONER: That’s a perfectly sound assumption.

Can anyone justify that? So predictably, American journalists have announced without even waiting for any investigation that this was all a terrible accident, nothing intentional about it. Those U.S.-defending journalists should be the angriest about their government’s refusal to allow an independent, impartial investigation since that would be the most effective path for exonerating them and proving their innocent, noble intentions.

Many Americans, and especially a large percentage of the nation’s journalists, need no investigation to know that this was nothing more than a terrible, tragic mistake. They believe that Americans, and especially their military, are so inherently good and noble and well-intentioned that none would ever knowingly damage a hospital. John McCain expressed this common American view and the primary excuse now accompanying it — stuff happens —on NPR this morning:

But they are not apparently so certain that they desire an independent, impartial investigation into what actually happened here. The facially ludicrous announcement by the State Department that the Pentagon will investigate itself produced almost no domestic outrage. A religious-like belief in American exceptionalism and tribal superiority is potent indeed, and easily overrides evidence or facts. It blissfully renders the need for investigations obsolete. In their minds, knowing that it was Americans who did this suffices to know what happened, at least on the level of motive: It could not possibly be the case that there was any intentionality here at all. As McCain said, it’s only the Bad People — not Americans — who do such things deliberately.

But those who already know that this was all a terrible mistake, that no U.S. personnel would ever purposely call for a strike on a hospital even if they thought there were Taliban inside, should be the ones most eager for the most credible investigation possible: namely, the one under the Geneva Conventions, which MSF this morning demanded, by the tribunal created exactly for such atrocities.

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Great Article, and I especially enjoyed your summary. I fear the time is past that anything significant will be able to be achieved against those who are in fact running our military. I also believe those who are running it are not our elected officials. They just play cover-up and damage control. I am not a conspiracy theorist, but one has to wonder about the subliminal messaging, when all evidence points to the obvious conclusion of an agenda whose only goal is attaining resources by any means, and even though the evidence is overwhelmingly stacked in this direction, there are few who call for real justice. Even on twitter, people seem more concerned with possibility of being ostracized than in disseminating the truth, more concerned with the party of choice winning even if the win is a loss for the people. Its like people literally tune out to anything that may be controversial when it comes to the government and military. Anyone who believes that our military is so inept as to bomb a hospital, or a power plant by accident and continue on for a full 30 minutes after the error has been identified, knows nothing about our weapons systems or communications. Its impossible. It would be similar to unidentified aircraft breaking through our Atlantic seaboard airspace, or even known aircraft deviating a flight path by more than 1/2 a degree, or few hundred feet, it is the most guarded, watched airspace on earth.

“~ They kill with impunity ~” Catherine Fitts, A woman who was poisoned twice, and spent 6 Million of her own money and 11 years of her life fighting for her integrity.

This is a very important moment in time. If nothing happens, this violation serves as the indicator that the US military machine doesn’t give a damn about anything but people dying, and the rest of the world can’t stand up to it. . . In truth it’s horrible that doctors and staff were hurt and killed. . . but that’s not what it’s really about. Without a hospital more people will die. That’s what the killers want.

A clear picture emerges – entrapment.
Because the US has not declared Islam to be the enemy of the US, it clearly may be held accountable for “war crimes” under international law. In the meantime, the US steps up and “pays” the victims for an air strike that Islam called for, an example of extortion – the common trait of Islam – a Muslim “tax” for unbelievers. Over and over, the “means” (their own people) to that end has never been of value, only the money. Now sweeten this act with the fact that under such failure to declare the enemy for what it is, the US may not claim “self-defense” in the course of such actions………….Nice trap if you ask me……………

Now we are seeing the participants even in this feedback section of polarising into the bleat, “Poor USA, is getting picked on”, and the Europhobes who hate the US anyway.
Its a demonstration of why this matter needs independent review to establish what happened. I think the world is sick of adjusting their expectations for fear of US retaliation, diplomatically or economically. Personally, for me, they have been doing this for decades. One of the original founders of The Intercept, wrote the book on it. So why are we so surprised?
Now comes the test to see who are vocal but have plastic spines when it comes down to the nitty gritty.

Thank you for your consistent updates on this important topic, Glenn. I feel this is an issue that could spark a change if it became a prominent subject of debate in America. I wrote an article about how the people who conducted this airstrike should be held accountable, hope that someone will find it informative.

At the very least the people who authorized this atrocity should no longer be paid by the US government to conduct airstrike missions in my name.

This is how the government has investigated an attack, that lasted for 90 minutes, in the past.

I know from personal conversations I had with Admiral Kidd that President Lyndon Johnson and Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara ordered him to conclude that the attack was a case of “mistaken identity” despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
Admiral Kidd told me, after returning from Washington, D.C. that he had been ordered to sit down with two civilians from either the White House or the Defense Department, and rewrite portions of the court’s findings.
Admiral Kidd also told me that he had been ordered to “put the lid” on everything having to do with the attack on USS Liberty. We were never to speak of it and we were to caution everyone else involved that they could never speak of it again.
I have no reason to doubt the accuracy of that statement as I know that the Court of Inquiry transcript that has been released to the public is not the same one that I certified and sent off to Washington. …

Not only did the Israelis attack the ship with napalm, gunfire, and missiles, Israeli torpedo boats machine-gunned three lifeboats that had been launched in an attempt by the crew to save the most seriously wounded—a war crime.

Now you are rambling. But at least you have – for the moment – stepped away from being Mona’s lap dog. Here is a short summary of Vladimir Putin who you apparently believe is credible – and his word is golden. Freedom House (2015) ranks Russia 6/7 in Freedom, political rights and civil liberties (seven being the worst, or least free). Reporters Without Borders ranks Russia at 148 in press freedom. Political opponents of Putin have ended up in exile, under house arrest, behind bars or dead (and there are numerous). Putin manipulated the Russian constitution to become Russia’s first “Tsar” since Nicholas II (1917). Putin is a former KGB operative who said:

“…….Above all, we should acknowledge that the collapse of the Soviet Union was a major geopolitical disaster of the century…..”

True enough. That event in itself improved the freedom index world-wide considerably and increased the ranks of NATO and the EU considerably.

Additionally, Putin invaded and annexed part of Ukraine violating the Budapest agreement recognizing the territorial integrity of Ukraine – which Russia signed. Putin supports the military action of separatists in eastern Ukraine with military hardware and manpower for geopolitical reasons because Ukraine falls within Russia’s “sphere of influence”. The same applies to several other countries geographically near Russia. Eight thousand people have died so far in eastern Ukraine by Russian supported violence (4X that more than in Gaza from Operation Protective Edge). While Putin’s referendum in Crimea has been defended by Russian bots and radical leftists as free and fair, he has never allowed the people in Chechnya the same opportunity. Tens to hundreds of thousands of Chechen separatists (and innocent people) were killed in two wars with the Russian army in the 1990s. A fact you will never read in the Intercept.

Just to show how much the extreme left is in bed with US political enemies or competitors, Greenwald wrote about Russian Television:

“……That that network has a strong pro-Russian bias is unquestionably true. But one of its leading hosts, Abby Martin, remarkably demonstrated last night what “journalistic independence” means by ending her Breaking the Set program with a clear and unapologetic denunciation of the Russian action in Ukraine…….”

By using Abby Martin as an example of journalistic independence on RT which is nothing more than the long arm of the Russian government (see the Reporters Without Borders rating for Russia), he threw every courageous Russian journalist past and present, beaten or murdered, under the bus to make a point about US journalists.

I wonder….. have you ever considered applying that …. razor sharp mind …. to the other side of the divide?

Like Obama works for America, Putin works for Russia.
Like the USA pursues its own interests, Russia pursues its own interests.
There the similarities end.

Russia does not invade countries 7,000 miles away – the US does.
Russia does not drone bomb the civilians of sovereign states – the US does.
And I’ve never heard tell that Russia buys its political prisoners as bounty – or feeds them their dinner up the àrsé. ….Have you?

As you don’t appear to be surprised that RT is biased towards it sponsor – why do you then appear not to understand that it would be equally foolish for organisations sponsored by the US and her lapdogs not to display the preferred bias against the “World Policeman’s Enemy#1?”

Yes. We get it. You don’t like Russia. But so what?
Not even “the former KGB operative” requires you do.

After the bombing of Gaza in 2014 US military leaders defended the bombing of hospitals and UN shelters in Gaza claiming that Israel went to “extraordinary lengths” to avoid civilian casualty. In fact, they claimed Israels bombing of the hospitals and UN shelters were justified since they served as “human shield”. This speaks a volume of the current mentality and line of thought of the US military leaders- they probably bombed the MSF hospital on purpose because they sincerely believed it could be justified just like the Gaza bombing of hospitals last year. And now they are like “whats the big deal here”?

The telling thing is that the US echoed exactly the same laughable lines as the Israeli regime does when it’s crimes get so blatant that even the US media can’t ignore them…right down to the ‘no military on Earth has ever done as much to prevent civilian deaths’.

“…….I’ve got many non sequiturs to regurgitate about the US-engineered coup in Ukraine, after which Russia drew back from its diplomatic initiative…..”

A classic non response to the truth followed by this doozy (quoted). – CraigSummers

Ever wonder how CraigSummers manages to avoid the cognitive dissonance that his attempts at deceit and passing falsehoods would raise in a rational person?

Me neither.

Still, this is just too obvious to pass.

Here he is nominally replying to being told that he. . .“[has] many ‘non sequiturs’ to regurgitate about the US-engineered coup in Ukraine, after which Russia drew back from its diplomatic initiative. . .”

So he dissembles into non sequitors (ironically illustrating the first point), straw men, and ad hominems

The unintentional irony begins from the start as he labels what he offers:

A classic non response to the truth. . .

…by throwing a label instead of offering an argument:

. . .doozy (quoted).

Then he raises a series of claims:

• . . .it’s America’s fault for the upheaval of the Ukrainian government by the people against the Russian puppet.
• . . .it’s America’s fault for the annexation of the Crimean Peninsula.
• . . .it’s America’s fault for the Russian troops stationed in eastern Ukraine supporting rebels in their war against the rightful Ukraine government.
• Eight thousand people have died.
• An estimated 500 Russians have been killed – in eastern Ukraine.
• . . .it’s America’s fault for the civilian airliner downed by a Russian anti-aircraft missile.

Some may or may not plausibly follow from previous arguments, some are irrelevant, and some seem outrageously stupid. Regardless of their validity, they are claims he raised. None of them address:

• His non sequiturs
or
• The US-engineered coup in Ukraine
or
• The coups impact upon Russian diplomacy

The deaths, the annexation of Crimea, the legality of the coup government, and the rest of his word-salad could occur with a coup that was engineered by the US or could occur with a coup that was not engineered by the US. What matters most is that he avoids having to think about anything that he doesn’t already believe. Weird and obvious as it is to a healthy mind, this mechanism lets him avoid actual arguments and the cognitive dissonance that would soon follow.

For good measure, he spews ad hominem:

When are you radical leftist going to going to quit supporting and taking the word, , ,

The US has authorized condolence payments to the families of the victims.

There’s no way the U.S didn’t know who and what they were targeting. Even if the hospital didn’t have the word hospital painted on top of it, they had to have been tracking Taliban fighters going into the largest building in the area a few days prior and would have been curious what it was. It’s also hard to believe that we still don’t know who called for help with our ability to track phone calls. Well maybe they don’t know because there wasn’t any Afghan under fire that called it in.

They had to get it cleared to attack the hospital. Our Afghan “allies” didn’t know where the only hospital in the area was located? We never had our drone vision map the area? We haven’t been in Afghanistan for 15 years or so and the people giving the ok for targets don’t know which buildings are which?

Maybe the U.S is refusing an independent investigation because the people involved are CIA/JSOC (and whoever they hire) connected. They never get in trouble for anything. I mean, for national security the decisions they make must not be scrutinized.

They probably didn’t like that Doctors without borders were helping people they were trying to kill. Who knows what other politics could have been involved. They made their own rules and felt confident the could weather the fallout of whatever happened. Seems like it anyway.

Meanwhile, the records of the foundations of US empire building are emerging in an unprecedented pace, given the laws surrounding FOIA disclosures are placing our government in a precarious position.
However, it is only with an understanding of the history of the depths of depravity perpetrated by USG psychopaths with authority that you will ever come to grips with our present day placement in the world wide theater of the absurd.

“…….I’ve got many non sequiturs to regurgitate about the US-engineered coup in Ukraine, after which Russia drew back from its diplomatic initiative…..”

A classic non response to the truth followed by this doozy (quoted). Now it’s America’s fault for the upheaval of the Ukrainian government by the people against the Russian puppet. And it’s America’s fault for the annexation of the Crimean Peninsula. And it’s America’s fault for the Russian troops stationed in eastern Ukraine supporting rebels in their war against the rightful Ukraine government. Eight thousand people have died. An estimated 500 Russians have been killed – in eastern Ukraine. And it’s America’s fault for the civilian airliner downed by a Russian anti-aircraft missile. When are you radical leftist going to going to quit supporting and taking the word of the worst fucking dictators in the world?

A pathetic and completely erroneous attempt to blame the US for the war in Syria.

“…….“The cause of Syria’s incredible bloodshed is the bombing by U.S. President Obama. He didn’t care about the millions displaced and the hundreds of thousands killed; he was determined to defeat Russia; and his allies in this were the Saudi and Qatari royals and their Turkish fellow-Sunnis. But he, and they, have lost; so, Obama now needs to make a fundamental choice.”…..”

We are supposed to believe that the Russian President was ready in February 2012 to negotiate a solution in good faith to end the war in Syria. The deal proposed by the Russian President even meant forcing Assad to step aside and negotiating a political deal beneficial to the west (US) and Russia. What could possibly be better? After all, Putin is credible. Just ask his political opponents in Russia, or some of the journalist in Russia which Reporters Without Borders ranks near the bottom in the world for press freedom (148). Yet the radical left suggests that we should believe that the former KGB operative was ready to negotiate. And, of course, the west (US) missed a golden opportunity and President Obama is entirely at fault, and therefore responsible for the bloodshed in Syria. Russia, Iran and the Lebanese militia, Hezbollah, provide weapons, funding, manpower and intelligence to the dictator, Assad, who started the entire war by crushing a political rights movement, but Obama is entirely at fault because he missed this one time opportunity to negotiate with Putin – the former KGB operative.

Just how credible is the former KGB agent when he negotiates? One conflict that Putin and the west (US) are currently in negotiations is between Russian and Ukraine. If you recall, Russia invaded the Crimea Peninsula after the Russian puppet, Yanukovych, was ousted as President of the country during a rebellion by the people of Ukraine. Russia responded by illegally (under international law) invading and annexing the Crimea Peninsula which houses a large Russian military Naval complex. He held an illegal referendum in Crimea rejected by most of the world in a vote at the UN. He violated the Budapest agreement signed by the Russian government in 1994 recognizing the territorial integrity of Ukraine. Additionally, Putin has funded, supplied weapons and troops to eastern Ukraine where Putin is behind a rebellion responsible for the death of 8000 people – four times the number of people killed in Gaza which has elicited such outrage by commenters below and above the line on this site. A passenger jet was shot down killing 300 civilians. A Russian anti-aircraft missile was utilized and Russian-backed rebels are the primary suspect in the downing of the jet. Where have negotiations with Putin gone in Ukraine? Absolutely nowhere. Russia still occupies Ukraine – and negotiations to date have failed to resolve the issues (which in this case are not complex). The US and EU have rightfully slapped sanctions on Russian individuals and companies:

“…….Amnesty International has expressed its belief that Russia is fueling the conflict.[493] …… As noted by OSCE, “Russian Federation has, since February 2014, violated every one of the ten Helsinki principles in its relations with Ukraine [signed by Russia in 1975], some in a clear, gross and thus far uncorrected manner, and is in violation with the commitments it undertook in the Budapest Memorandum, as well as other international obligations”. OSCE condemned actions of Russian Federation, calling them “coercion” and “military aggression” that are “designed to subordinate the rights inherent in Ukraine’s sovereignty to the Russian Federation’s own interests”.[498]……..”(My addition to the text)

While the west (US) rejected negotiating with Putin in February 2014 even though Putin offered to negotiate the removal of Assad, by June 2014 that “offer” was apparently off the table and the demand by the west that Assad step down (US) was rejected by Russia (your source, Guardian):

“…….In June 2012, Annan chaired international talks in Geneva, which agreed a peace plan by which a transitional government would be formed by “mutual consent” of the regime and opposition. However, it soon fell apart over differences on whether Assad should step down. …….”

Oops – off the table. Apparently, that was a one time only offer! Additionally, if Putin had the power to remove Assad (which I doubt other than militarily), he has always had at his disposal a way to end the civil war which – just like in Ukraine – he has rejected at the cost of hundreds of thousands of lives and millions of refugees because of Russia’s “geopolitical” interests. Just as Greenwald holds the US responsible for supplying weapons and intelligence to Saudi Arabia in Yemen, the same applies to Russia, Iran and Hezbollah for their propping up the brutal dictator, Assad.

Your post is exactly the kind of propaganda promoted by the Intercept – both above and below the line (according to rrheard, the Assad regime is the “legitimate” government of Syria). In this case, the US President, Obama, is at fault for the “incredible bloodshed” in Syria. This is the most common theme of far left propaganda and lies – the US is responsible for every war in the world. Whether it is for oil, geopolitical advantage, or just because Americans hate Muslims (Greenwald), the goal of the US is to dominate the world and force everyone to fall into step behind us – or the US will crush you like an ant. Isn’t that the reason we bombed the hospital? We “punished” Doctors Without Borders because they treated Taliban casualties against out geopolitical interests.

Sorry Doc. Your post will not fly. You are a classic card carrying member of the anti-American radical left. When is the radical left going to quit supporting dictators who oppose the US?

I’ve got many non sequiturs to regurgitate about the US-engineered coup in Ukraine, after which Russia drew back from its diplomatic initiative.

Bloomberg News, the Guardian, and Former Finnish President Martti Ahtisaar are all far leftists promoting propaganda and lies. And when I’m not spewing ad hominems, I’ve got straw men (“the US is responsible for every war in the world”) and still more non sequitors (“Isn’t that the reason we bombed the hospital?)

Financial newspapers, British publications, and Scandinavian politicians are all classic card carrying members of the anti-American radical left.

When is the radical left going to join me and begin supporting dictators favored by the US?

From the 9-11 commission of people who created the disaster in the first place,to Israelis informing US of reality in the ME and Palestine Israel,we have had no credible accounting of anything today,in the msm.
Corruption is endemic.

The US also had a (real) interest in bombing the fuck out of Assad, but turned that down. The US also had a (real) interest in bombing the living piss out of Iran, but negotiated a nuclear agreement instead. . .The US also had a golden opportunity to bomb Syria into the stone age . . .The US even turned down a golden opportunity to bomb Assad and really set the regime back militarily. . .The US turned down a golden opportunity to bomb the fuck out of the Assad regime.”

– CraigSummers

Expressed over and over so vividly, who could miss the feeling and depth within those passionate words or doubt their sincerity?

But not everyone mourns the same lost opportunities or even thinks that the carnage is “completely” Assad’s responsibility:

“It was an opportunity lost in 2012”
– Former Finnish president and Nobel peace prize laureate* Martti Ahtisaar

“Former Finnish president and Nobel peace prize laureate Martti Ahtisaari said western powers failed to seize on the proposal [for the U.S. and Russia to negotiate a replacement for Assad that would be acceptable to both the U.S. and Russia]. . .He said that the US, Britain and France were so convinced that the Syrian dictator was about to fall, they ignored the [Russian] proposal. “It was an opportunity lost in 2012”

“. . .the U.S. demanded victory for the Sunni (i.e., the Saudi-backed) Islamic forces, against the secular dictatorship of Bashar al-Assad, a Shiite and ally of Shiite Iran. The U.S. was determined to crush Iran’s and Russia’s ally. . .

“The cause of Syria’s incredible bloodshed is the bombing by U.S. President Obama. He didn’t care about the millions displaced and the hundreds of thousands killed; he was determined to defeat Russia; and his allies in this were the Saudi and Qatari royals and their Turkish fellow-Sunnis. But he, and they, have lost; so, Obama now needs to make a fundamental choice.”

Well said,
” …:a Nobel peace prize laureate commanding the forces that bombed another Nobel peace prize laureate” which is a frequent critic of violence and violations of human rights in areas of conflict where it has stationed doctors and aid workers.

For how long do we tolerate a US policy which says that it would never allow any of its forces to be subject to international criminal investigation?
In the case of the Kunduz massacre,an only 8 US servicemen were on a plane back to the USA within 2 hours of the incident. This is a standard response to ensure that US military personnel cannot be investigated for alleged war crimes under the Geneva Convention.
We can only hope that MSF steels itself for the many brick walls that will be thrown up by the US in this matter. This will be a test of patient but unbreakable resolve. MSF needs to harness the awesome public enquiry power of Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and International Committee of the Red Cross to maintain the rage. This will be dangerous for individuals concerned because the US intelligence agencies will not hesitate to use any covert and overt activities to undermine any efforts for a fair and impartial investigations.

Truth in war is oft the first casualty. And so the “mystery” of why such resistance to an independent investigation, is as much of a perplexity as the story of Russian missiles intended for ISIS in Syria, malfunctioned and went hitting Iran instead.

Nato has many devices in its weapons arsenal, including real-time image capturing devices. Nato member nations, individually, have these capabilities. The U. S., more than any other nation in Nato or anywhere else, has more imaging capturing capabilities than anyone else. And Russia’s actions in Syria are the main focus of the crosshairs for all the afore-mentioned parties.

Yet, NOT A SINGLE NATO MEMBER managed to capture images of Russian missiles falling in Iran. NATO as an organization, has no images of the same event either. And most importantly, the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, for all of her capabilities, somehow cannot show anything concrete by way of images to back up the claims. And Iranian opposition forces, who would have been eager to show the images to the world – especially of civilian casualties – in the event official Iran wanted to cover-up the Russian missile malfunction, have no images to show the world either.

I have searched the internet looking to see how the Russians could have done such a horrific thing. And there are no images to find. Anywhere.

The truth is in the emergency room, hanging to life on the IV drip that is bold critical thinking and analysis of the “news”…

You also would have thought given satellite and drone surveillance capabilities of the US and Nato they would have seen a 15,000 man army, ISIS, go into Iraq and get some 160kms from Baghdad. These “wars” seem nothing more than a way to perpetuate the military industrial complex of the US and many of the other so call UN “Security” Council members with veto powers.

Yesterday, I asked someone to tell me what the news was for the day. He said, DemocracyNow did the Kunduz story, and a set of facts that may have contributed to the “accident” emerged from story.

Today, after reading this story by GG, I went to DemocracyNow to get a transcript of the story so I could refer readers directly to it. The headline was there but no transcript. Perhaps it’s the library computer I’m using that is blocking access. I don’t know.

But apparently, according to the story, a bunch of armed men went into the hospital earlier, demanding that certain persons who were receiving treatment at the hospital, be handed over to them.

The doctors and staff at the hospital told the armed men two things:
1) That absolutely no arms are tolerated or permitted within the boundaries of the hospital.
2) The men they demanded to be handed over were patients receiving treatment and that the hospital treats ALL injured persons, and it is not the hospital policy to hand over any patient to any requesting party.

I went to the Democracy Now site and also COULD NOT find that story you mentioned. Didn’t see it in any transcript, but there was one that did seem to be incomplete. I think it was Amy said they’d carry on after a break, but the transcript ended and I wasn’t able to find the rest.

This aircraft is a flying artillery platform with a 105 mm howitzer and other smaller canons and 25 mm Gatling-type rotary cannon.

The AC-130 is a heavily armed long-endurance aircraft carrying an array of anti-ground oriented weapons that are integrated with sophisticated sensors, navigation, and fire-control systems. It is capable of delivering precision firepower or area-saturation fire over a target area over a long period of time, at night or in adverse weather. The sensor suite consists of a television sensor, infrared sensor, and radar. These sensors allow the gunship to visually or electronically identify friendly ground forces and targets in most weather conditions.
you can watch an actual night operation and you see there is no “Fog of War”https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsA9VtQ_uLg

During these operations there are other people off the aircraft (Tactical Air Control Parties such as Joint Terminal Attack Controller (JTAC)) and layers of procedures to controls for mistakes that lead to fratricide or in this case killing civilians.
For a mistake to be made it would mean a huge cascade of failures need ed to happen.

No one likes you Louise.
No one thinks you are smart.
No one cares what you say.
Post after post you show to all, your depravity.
Why bother you sick twisted demented creature.
Ahhh why do I bother to write to you since you see no evil, hear no evil but just speak evil.
No intellect, no morals, no ethics just an inflated ego driven compulsion to sprout nonsense.
You must be vile and think that counts as being clever. Shock jock you are not. You are just a bore, dumber than a box of rocks.

“Louise, I’ll be first to put my boot on your ass as you look in the oven door …
If only Hitler had been allowed to finish the Jews off we wouldn’t be troubled by Israel … or you.”

^ Witness your average, garden-variety Interceptista; these are the people – the brain-addled anti-Semites, frothing at the mouth and dreaming of murdering innocent Jews, finding the outlet for their vile fantasies siding with equally despicable “Palestinian” and other Islamofascist murderous thugs – forming a huge majority of Greenwald’s readership.

It seems the only time anyone has pissed off Louise is when I commented the Jews might well have deserved the treatment they have received throughout history.
I argued the xenophobic Jewish culture has always caught shit because people do not respond well when confronted by xenophobia. Interestingly, it was Napoleon who allowed European Jews to remove the yellow Star of David which they had been required to wear. I suggested the yellow star law was the 18th century equivalent to BDS.
Several here labelled me an antisemite and claimed I was justifying the Holocaust. Just the response I expected because the Holocaust™® is the event that shapes all discussion of Israeli occupation and conquest.

Louise limps here often and leaves nothing but a stain – I mean he isn’t even dark comically – he’s just weak. So when he responded with actual disgust for me, well I’m off to the races with it. Funny how he laughs at Afghani immolation but has a singular meltdown when it might be an Israeli. But we’ve seen that before in others …

Be that as it may, my problem is that shit attracts flies, and if you keep shoveling it in these threads it’s just a matter of time before we find ourselves hosting commenters like “Dailyslave” and “Denise the Celt.” Then TI will have to start moderating.

Now, I would address your “anti-Semitism” problem, if I thought you were an anti-Semite. But I know that anti-Semitism is inconsistent with logic and intelligent thought processes, and since I am familiar with your (often intelligent and logical) comments, I know you’re not an anti-Semite. I think you’re just angry, and how you deal with your anger is to lash out like a little baby, and say the most hurtful thing you can think of.

Hence LouiseCypher. I’m purposefully reflecting his shit in the hope that he will be banned.
Would you be offended if I suggested LouiseCypher be dismembered with a dull macheté as many hundreds of thousands were in Rwanda?

“Nuf said,” while no Voltaire (who of us is?), is bright enough. But a statement like “the Jews might well have deserved the treatment they have received throughout history” speaks for itself, does it not?

“the Jews might well have deserved the treatment they have received throughout history”
it does speak for itself. i can rightly say Jewish culture is very xenophobic. i can see how others would be put off by a culture that excludes vociferously all other peoples from many aspects of its daily life. an enemy of my enemy is suddenly my friend, as it were.
the BDS/ yellow star analogy is interesting. today, products with a ‘made in Israel’ label are chosen to boycott because of the on-going occupation of Palestine and the on-going slaughter of Palestinian civilians (make no mistake, Israel kills Palestinians to 100+ times the rate of Israeli deaths). more than two hundred years ago, it seems the yellow star was the ‘made in Israel’ label. i assume back then the way you dealt with xenophobic cultures was to identify them and treat them accordingly (ie avoid, banish).
folks I have met typically confuse Jewish religion, culture, and ethnicity. those three things may overlap but not always. and boy howdy do folks look at Jews through the lens of the holocaust.

imagine today’s Israel in the past. what particular xenophobic behavior might qualify the 18th century wearer of such a label? i guess I’m saying the yellow star was invented for a reason. Jewish culture may be responsible especially if one looks at Israeli culture today.
and somebody below pointed out how useless the word “antisemite” is. disagree with the premise, use some logic to explain why you disagree, and move on.

i just heard the Turks shot down a Russian jet. the carnage only grows.

The chairman, an Orthodox family attorney named Daniel Schwartz, decided to escalate the fight by giving a speech denouncing anti-Semitism in the district. Elementary-school children, he said, were telling their teachers that they hated the Jews; high-school students were appearing before the board and questioning its moral authority. He cited St. Augustine’s instruction that Jews could be tolerated but not accepted, a sentiment that he said was alive in Auschwitz and “the crematoria of Treblinka” and that was alive in Ramapo today. The district’s demographics, he said, weren’t changing; the Hasidim could not be wished away. “You don’t like it?” Schwartz told the audience. “Find another place to live.”

how would this behavior in the 18th century be viewed?
the same way it it is viewed in the 21st century; with revulsion.

I’ve never been to sturmfront. Who needs that crap when simple observation will suffice.
Israel, today, is slaughtering Palestinians while continually stealing their land with on-going settlement construction. But then you know that …
Tell me, in what way is BDS different from the 18th century yellow star campaign? By law Israel must mark country of origin on its exports. So it was done differently 200 years ago. It would have the same impact; change your way or suffer the consequences.
Who really knows why Jews wore a yellow star more than 200 years ago? It’s a topic of discussion unless there is an Israeli involved. Then it’s a fucking hasbara act.

A mere dash is the effect I am striving for but it takes a heaping tablespoon to bring my subtleties to fruition.

You are labeling and being dismissive once again. That old hasbarat manual is still on your nightstand, isn’t it?
I’ll only ask questions of you which I know the answer to so you do not have to respond.

“…..The only people that should feel “responsible” for what is going on in Syria is the American elite’s who set the bloodbath in motion in the first instance…..”

You are so brainwashed into believing America is at the heart of all things bad that happen in the world that you believe any fringe left theory on the blood bath in Syria. I didn’t read the whole article, but I did try to find the word “Hariri” in the document – and no where was the former (Sunni) Prime Minister of Lebanon mentioned. If you recall, he was assassinated in 2005. Two (Shia) Hezbollah operatives have been indicted. Hariri supported the occupying Syrian army to leave Lebanon – and he was murdered for it. The US cut off diplomatic relations with Syria after the assassination because it was clear that Hezbollah – which receives weapons and support from Assad – would not have done this without the approval of Assad. The sectarian divide in Lebanon already existed in the confessional government, but this really exacerbated the situation. The Assad army was pressured into leaving after the murder.

In 1982, the Muslim Brotherhood rebelled against the Assad regime (the father of the current dictator):

“……..under the orders of the country’s president Hafez al-Assad, besieged the town of Hama for 27 days in order to quell an uprising by the Muslim Brotherhood against al-Assad’s government.[1][2] The massacre, carried out by the Syrian Army under commanding General Rifaat al-Assad, effectively ended the campaign begun in 1976 by Sunni Muslim groups, including the Muslim Brotherhood, against the government.,,,,,,Subsequent estimates vary, with the lower estimates claiming that at least 10,000 Syrian citizens were killed,[5]…..”

In 1979, Saddam Hussein invaded Iran:

“…….The Iran–Iraq War began when Iraq invaded Iran via air and land on 22 September 1980. It followed a long history of border disputes, and was motivated by fears that the Iranian Revolution in 1979 would inspire insurgency among Iraq’s long-suppressed Shia majority, as well as Iraq’s desire to replace Iran as the dominant Persian Gulf state…..”

The Sunni-Shia divide was exacerbated by the rule of Saddam Hussein who treated the majority Shia population (and Kurds as well) as second class citizens – and much worse. He used WMDs on the Kurds and murdered thousands of Shiites. After the invasion of Iraq by the US, the divide was exploited by Sunni militants and Al-Qaeda in Iraq who capitalized on the sectarian split to initiate the civil war. That divide continues today after the Maliki government marginalized the Sunnis who joined ISIS.

The point of this is to show your good ignorant self that the sectarian divide has existed for 1300 years – and has been bloody at times throughout history well before the US declared independence. Indeed the US might have tried to exploit the sectarian divide i n getting rid of the murderer Assad, but it already existed. Iran and Saudi Arabia are vying for regional supremacy in Iraq, Yemen and Syria. Any idiot or left winger should at least be able to understand history before making really stupid comments. In fact, that entire book is likely a crock – especially if it attempts to blame the US for the sectarian violence in Syria.

After Obama was elected, he attempted diplomacy with Assad and reopened the diplomatic mission to Syria. There was some hope of pulling Assad from the Iranian orbit. Diplomacy failed. In 2011, the Arab Spring came to Syria which brought hope to the Syrian people to gain some (promised) political reforms under Assad. Assad chose the path of murder like his Dad (Amnesty International):

“…….Background: When army tanks recently rolled into the city of Dera’a in southern Syria and began shelling residential areas, the human rights crisis in the country reached a new low. More than 400 people have died across Syria since protestors calling for political reform took to the streets in mid-March. Hundreds of people have been arbitrarily arrested and detained incommunicado, placing them at serious risk of torture and other ill-treatment. Torture of detainees has long been common and endemic in Syria…..Amnesty International has repeatedly urged the Syrian government to rein in the security forchttp://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/uk-editiones……The Syrian authorities have failed to take these steps and intensified repression. Consequently, Amnesty International has called on the UN Security Council to refer Syria to the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, to impose an arms embargo and to freeze the assets abroad of the Syrian President and his senior associates…”

He tried to quell the uprising with violence – like his father only he failed. You are a classic anti-American fool.

lol, the US literally supplied Saddam Hussain with items needed to make chemical weapons and gave him intel on how to best use it. We bombed 7 nations in 6 years, replacing each with Saudi Monarchy backed wahabi’ist fanatics.

We created Bin Ladin and have been financing/organizing this with our Saudi Monarchy allies for over 25 years; the same Monarchy that our intelligence says financed 9-11 and is responsible for most of the worlds terrorism.

We also took out the first democratically elected government of Iran, Prime Minister Dr. Mossadeq; who was a dear friend of my grandfather. We did this so BP could continue to loot Iran’s oil and not pay for it, hence starting their multi billion dollar corporation off the Iranian people’s back by kicking out their leader.

We also refuse to release the classified 28 pages that show even further how much of Saudi Arabia’s monarchy has been involved in 9-11.

We bomb 7 nations in 6 years, our Saudi allies and ISIS move in. We literally spend billions of dollars to give equipment and training to ISIS/Al Nursa Front. Today, John McCain and Hillary Clinton call to arm Al Nursa with rocket launchers to shoot down Russian jets fighting them. Are you even paying attention man?!?!

Your own government is destroying your civil rights and spending trillions of dollars from your nation to create global terrorists, and prolong a endless war, while claiming international law doesn’t apply to them and conducting regime change by putting in terrorists.

Craig (and Algemeiner) are fixated on Assad’s war crimes, because of the deep compassion and empathy they (like the Israeli Jewish people in general) have for the Syrian Gentile civilian population. So altruistic.

“……TEHRAN — A prominent Iranian general was killed in Syria Thursday night, Iranian officials and state media reported on Friday. His death illustrated both the level of Iran’s direct involvement on the government side in the Syrian civil war, and the pervasive violence of the conflict…..general….Hussein Hamedani, a senior figure in the Revolutionary Guards, was killed in Aleppo Province, where he was advising the Syrian military, the reports said. The Iranian state news outlet Press TV reported, citing a statement by the Revolutionary Guards, that General Hamedani had been killed by Islamic State fighters…….The general’s death prompted an outpouring of grief from Iran’s leaders, who have been steadily sending high-ranking military figures to Syria. ….”

I suggest a day of morning at the Intercept. By the way, a story you will never read in the FLWM (Far left wing media).

Well,we just read it from you,so I guess it does get printed,and I have seen the story a few times today.
The world knows Iran is friends with,and helping Syria.It is sad another victim of Zion goes down,a most common event today,but remember,you may have some guns,but we got the numbers,we’re gonna win,we’re taking over!C’mon!(lead guitar)

Why should we have a day of “morning” [sic]? Do you know what the difference between Iran and the US is in this particular conflict? Iran is a declared ally of Syria and has been asked by the legitimate government of Syria to assist it. The US on the other hand, only renditions its “bad guys” to Syria for torture because it doesn’t want to be seen getting its hands dirty overtly and violating international law (oops too late for that). So who is the actual monumental hypocrite? Iran the avowed ally of Syria or the US who backs the very people who fund ISIS, who is both directly and indirectly responsible for ISIS, and who had no small hand in fomenting an armed insurrection against the legitimate government of Syria?

The fact you or any other American doesn’t like the regime of Assad doesn’t not give you the legal or moral right to foment an armed insurrection or attempt to overthrow the recognized regime. But of course America has a long long long long long and well-documented history of doing precisely that in service, not of “humanitarianism,” but its nebulous fucking “interests”. And if you weren’t such a misinformed hack you’d know that.

So really you should save your pathetically hypocritical outrage and just admit the following–you have absolutely zero problem with America murdering and bombing whomever and wherever it pleases so long as they give you your little doggy treat that says “we’re doing it to protect our interests”. But you are simply too stupid and too propagandized to even ask the right question which is: exactly what are our “interests” and is it legal and moral to pursue them using the means our nation is presently employing.

And please learn to blockquote you insufferable know-nothing Zionist gasbag. It really isn’t very difficult. And the proper way to employ ellipsis is . . . (only three dots with a space in between each and 4 dots if the excluded text includes the ending period.)

Nothing more annoying than a propaganda spreading buffoon with bad grammar all hopped up on Ziocaine waving the American flag.

“…..Why should we have a day of “morning” [sic]? Do you know what the difference between Iran and the US is in this particular conflict? Iran is a declared ally of Syria and has been asked by the legitimate government of Syria to assist it…..”

So when a dictator that brutally quelled a political rights movement ask for help from a dictatorship that brutally quelled their own political revolution (Green Revolution), that is legitimate? As I said in an earlier post, human rights and suffering does not mean a fucking thing to the fringe left. It is simply (and it really cannot be any simpler) about opposing American policies no matter how many innocent people are killed in the process. I will post this again (Amnesty International):

“……Bashar al-Assad’s Syrian regime is committing war crimes and crimes against humanity by systematically using barrel bombs to kill civilians and destroy infrastructure in Aleppo, says Amnesty International….The accusations come in a report released on Tuesday, two days after the regime bombed a school and community centre in a rebel-held district in the city where students were sitting exams…..Philip Luther, Amnesty’s Middle East and North Africa director, said in a statement: “Widespread atrocities, in particular the vicious and unrelenting aerial bombardment of civilian neighbourhoods by government forces….“….point to a policy of deliberately and systematically targeting civilians in attacks that constitute war crimes and crimes against humanity.” He added: “By relentlessly and deliberately targeting civilians…..”

This is a classic position of the extreme left. It is apparently OK to call for help from a dictatorship while you brutally target civilians with barrel bombs, chemical weapons, chlorine gas, artillery, bombers and tanks. Outside of training a few anti-Assad rebels, the US did absolutely nothing for the first couple of years of the brutal civil war. The US turned down a golden opportunity to bomb the fuck out of the Assad regime.

This is exactly why Greenwald and his merry musketeers are so outraged over the bombing of the hospital. The US military did it. If anyone else does it, it’s perfectly legitimate – or its ignored. You are so hypocritical that it’s comical.

A complete non-story. Happens in wars all the time, and will happen again.

Calling it an “atrocity” is laughable, but then again we all know that Greenwald likes the words in his insufferably extended “journalistic” ejaculations big, if invariably dumb, and likes his flaccid anti-American word salads dripping with saliva that only a veritable zealot’s foaming at the mouth can produce, if not exactly nutrient.

The US bombs a hospital whose location is well known, whose location has not changed, whose GPS coordinates have been repeatedly supplied to the US military, as recently as the Tuesday before. What exactly is the purpose of providing such coordinates to the military? The US admits it bombed a known hospital for more than an hour, and can’t seem to decide even who called for and directed the attack. What’s laughable is your sense of justice and superiority.

Isn’t that just like a far left wing rag – to tell someone when they can use the copy/paste function. Well Doc, what do you think about the UN report which stated 72% of the civilian casualties in Afghanistan are due to the Pakistan-supported Taliban while coalition forces only accounted for 2% in 2014?

I think that’s appalling and that the Taliban are disgusting.
People who cause such misery are despicable, as is anyone who supports what they’ve done or believes it justifies or minimizes his own group’s brutality.

The only people that should feel “responsible” for what is going on in Syria is the American elite’s who set the bloodbath in motion in the first instance. The only responsibility I feel is to defeat people like you and the American elite’s who prosecute these policies and actions. That’s the only way America will be better and there will be less places like Syria as a function of the US elite’s “interests”.

“…..The only people that should feel “responsible” for what is going on in Syria is the American elite’s who set the bloodbath in motion in the first instance…..”

You are so brainwashed into believing America is at the heart of all things bad that happen in the world that you believe any fringe left theory on the blood bath in Syria. I didn’t read the whole article, but I did try to find the word “Hariri” in the document – and no where was the former (Sunni) Prime Minister of Lebanon mentioned. If you recall, he was assassinated in 2005. Two (Shia) Hezbollah operatives have been indicted. Hariri supported the occupying Syrian army to leave Lebanon – and he was murdered for it. The US cut off diplomatic relations with Syria after the assassination because it was clear that Hezbollah – which receives weapons and support from Assad – would not have done this without the approval of Assad. The sectarian divide in Lebanon already existed in the confessional government, but this really exacerbated the situation. The Assad army was pressured into leaving after the murder.

In 1982, the Muslim Brotherhood rebelled against the Assad regime (the father of the current dictator):

“……..under the orders of the country’s president Hafez al-Assad, besieged the town of Hama for 27 days in order to quell an uprising by the Muslim Brotherhood against al-Assad’s government.[1][2] The massacre, carried out by the Syrian Army under commanding General Rifaat al-Assad, effectively ended the campaign begun in 1976 by Sunni Muslim groups, including the Muslim Brotherhood, against the government.,,,,,,Subsequent estimates vary, with the lower estimates claiming that at least 10,000 Syrian citizens were killed,[5]…..”

In 1979, Saddam Hussein invaded Iran:

“…….The Iran–Iraq War began when Iraq invaded Iran via air and land on 22 September 1980. It followed a long history of border disputes, and was motivated by fears that the Iranian Revolution in 1979 would inspire insurgency among Iraq’s long-suppressed Shia majority, as well as Iraq’s desire to replace Iran as the dominant Persian Gulf state…..”

The Sunni-Shia divide was exacerbated by the rule of Saddam Hussein who treated the majority Shia population (and Kurds as well) as second class citizens – and much worse. He used WMDs on the Kurds and murdered thousands of Shiites. After the invasion of Iraq by the US, the divide was exploited by Sunni militants and Al-Qaeda in Iraq who capitalized on the sectarian split to initiate the civil war. That divide continues today after the Maliki government marginalized the Sunnis who joined ISIS.

The point of this is to show your good ignorant self that the sectarian divide has existed for 1300 years – and has been bloody at times throughout history well before the US declared independence. Indeed the US might have tried to exploit the sectarian divide i n getting rid of the murderer Assad, but it already existed. Iran and Saudi Arabia are vying for regional supremacy in Iraq, Yemen and Syria. Any idiot or left winger should at least be able to understand history before making really stupid comments. In fact, that entire book is likely a crock – especially if it attempts to blame the US for the sectarian violence in Syria.

After Obama was elected, he attempted diplomacy with Assad and reopened the diplomatic mission to Syria. There was some hope of pulling Assad from the Iranian orbit. Diplomacy failed. In 2011, the Arab Spring came to Syria which brought hope to the Syrian people to gain some (promised) political reforms under Assad. Assad chose the path of murder like his Dad (Amnesty International):

“…….Background: When army tanks recently rolled into the city of Dera’a in southern Syria and began shelling residential areas, the human rights crisis in the country reached a new low. More than 400 people have died across Syria since protestors calling for political reform took to the streets in mid-March. Hundreds of people have been arbitrarily arrested and detained incommunicado, placing them at serious risk of torture and other ill-treatment. Torture of detainees has long been common and endemic in Syria…..Amnesty International has repeatedly urged the Syrian government to rein in the security forchttp://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/uk-editiones……The Syrian authorities have failed to take these steps and intensified repression. Consequently, Amnesty International has called on the UN Security Council to refer Syria to the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, to impose an arms embargo and to freeze the assets abroad of the Syrian President and his senior associates…”

He tried to quell the uprising with violence – like his father only he failed. You are a classic anti-American fool.

In the Truthout article about US aggressively pursuing regime change in Syria, the cables outlining strategies for how to destabilize the Syrian government by any means available (mentioning specific weaknesses and how to take advantage of them to promote exaggerated fears and promote sectarian tensions) sounds like a similar brand of treatment used against this country during elections and whenever public consensus building threatens to do something good for the people. Whats that old saying again? Happy people make regime change harder.

NATO’s supreme commander said he supports an independent investigation into the bombing of a Doctors Without Borders hospital in Kunduz that killed 22 people. Doctors Without Borders, also known by its French acronym MSF, has called for an independent war crimes probe. […]

When Sebastian asked about an investigation, “using a fact-finding body set up under the Geneva Conventions, which is what Medecins Sans Frontiers are talking about,” General Breedlove responded, “I think this is their absolute right to ask for this investigation.”

“And you’d support that?” Sebastian asked.

“We will support it,” Breedlove responded, “We’re going to support it.”

Breedlove added that such an investigation would also receive his personal support.

There isn’t one doubt in my mind this was an intentional act of depravity. However, NO ONE is going to be held accountable. Just as no one to date has, or will be held accountable for the war crimes committed by the CIA’s torture program, even though the entire planet knows. And just as no one will ever be held accountable for the murder of American citizens and thousands of foreign innocent men, women and children by virtue of Drone delivered Hellfire missiles. And the reason why is the United States is a Legal Imperialism, to which there is no other entity with the power to force accountability on it. Even the Congress passed a law giving the authority to the DOD to target the Hague should it ever try to indict American soldiers for war crimes. So no, there won’t even be a trial.

Unless of course, you discover and disclose a video of the crew of the AC-130 laughing while they murder doctors and patients and destroy a hospital. Yes, they will hold you accountable with impunity.

Meanwhile…FUCK these degenerate war criminals of the US military. I’d spit in their face if I could.

Trying to obfuscate the fact that a hospital, whose GPS coordinates were known to all parties in the conflict zone, was bombed by US forces. Not only that, but the airstrikes continued for over 30 minutes after MSF contacted the military authorities.

To rely on the military that committed the atrocity to investigate itself will yield nothing but deceitful conclusions and minimal recrimination. The past history in these matters speaks for itself when it comes to internal or self investigations by the military and our government.

We, as citizens of this nation, must demand our government abides by international laws we are party to. Let those who gave the orders to bomb the hospital for whatever reasons face the consequences of their acts.

Is there no more accountability in the face of blatant violation of international laws?

If we allow this criminal act to proceed without redress, we will keep the door wide open for more of these acts to occur with impunity.

We’re all going on summers holiday
No more peace for a decade or two
Gun and slaughter on summers holiday
No more muslims for me or you
For a decade or two
We’re going where the guns shine brightly
We’re going where the blood is red
We’ve killed them in the movies
Now let’s make them all dead
Warmongers have a summers holiday
Killing things they always wanted to
So we’re going on summers holiday
To make our dreams come true
For me and you
We’re going where the guns shine brightly
We’re going where the blood is red
We’ve killed them in the movies
Now let’s make them all dead
Warmongers have a summers holiday
Killing things they always wanted to
So we’re going on summers holiday
To make our dreams come true
For me and you

First of all, as a [human being, I] should do what [I] believe is right for [humanity], but that doesn’t mean that [I ever will;] that’s how [psychopaths] work. I sure as hell don’t [care that most of humanity doesn’t] share [my] extreme viewpoint.

Most citizens in [the US have] no influence over their government’s actions because [the US government is largely controlled by and serving the interests of power and wealth] – so [my] idea that we cannot or shouldn’t try to influence or expose their actions is misguided at best. In fact, the massacres in Rwanda [which the US knew about in advance], the Congo [where the US overthrew the government, let Belgian troops murder its President, and installed and then for decades supported the brutal dictator who brought about the deaths of millions] Syria [where the US and its proxies have been funding and arming ISIS and Al Queda] and many other places around the world indicate [how I am] flat out wrong on that point. There is an obligation to intervene (and I don’t mean necessarily militarily). The UN was created in part for that reason and the Geneva Conventions were written for the identical reason. Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch as well as other human rights organizations were also created to “intervene” in the abuses by all governments. [But the US will block any effort to hold itself or any of its favored client states, no matter how terrible and brutal, to account] That’s how [I can claim] that a war crime “might” have been committed by the US at the hospital[s in Fallujah and Kunduz; because I know that nothing of significance will come of it]. That’s how we know that Assad [as well as many others in places like the US, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Turkey, Indonesia, Guatemala, and elsewhere] committed numerous war crimes, [but only those that don’t serve the interests of US power will be singled out for condemnation and action]. This is what it is to be a true “[neo]-liberal” – based on selective human rights motivated strictly for political reasons.

Journalism is one powerful way to hold [only those governments the US chooses] accountable (just [look at the selective and often] fabricated statements [from the US about its “enemies” spread by the MSM and mindlessly regurgitated by me]. The Intercept has 33 journalists (listed) with [many stories of the] ongoing humanitarian disaster[s] in the world today, [but I only memorize and repeat those covered by the MSM]. How is that possible? The reason is simple. [Those who control the corporate media control my mind. They] are US-obsessed with a single interest in US politics – domestic and foreign – and, of course, US allies [Since I don’t think for myself, I’m obsessed with their obsessions too]. Their hiring [of politicians, their lobbies, and their wars] reflect their singular interest. The biggest criticism of the UN is that its members are politically driven more than they care about human rights and human disasters. This exactly describes the[m] – and they have proven that time and time again. [That’s why I have no] credibility when [I dismiss] Saudi Arabia bombing a wedding, but write not a single word about the use of …weapons by [the US and its proxies] in [Yemen, Syria, Ukraine, Iraq, Iran, Turkey,] and Lebanon. Any idiot should be able to notice the omission…[well, almost any idiot].

On [another mindless] point, 80 million people died in WWI and WWII. [Bringing this up] amount[s] to an incredible effort by [me] to self-destruct. In addition, [after the wars, the US] tried to expand her empire [to most of the world in a strategy known as “Grand Area Planning” with guiding principles that persist to this day]. The US had a lot of questionable (and stupid) policies which were unsupportable, but [I still support them. I told you I was making an effort to self-destruct]. About 100,000,000 people died in the twentieth century under communism for various reasons, [none of which excuse anything the US is doing today]. Lots of countries benefited from US [bombs] like Kosovo, Bosnia (to a minor extent), Kuwait, Taiwan, South Korea, Europe, Japan, Israel and ultimately, [you won’t hear a single dead bomb victim complain about it]. Countries controlled by the USSR which collapsed economically [lead] many to join the EU and NATO (because they understood that [the US] would continue to threaten them (like in Ukraine and [the Baltic states]).

[I try to pretend that it’s as] if you believe the whole world would have been peaceful but for the US (and Israel). [My straw man] simplification of [what others say] into ‘it’s always the fault of the US’ is typical [because I don’t have any way to address actual facts and arguments].

[All I’m finally left with is name-calling like] “the fringe (far, radical, hard, extreme) left” [That was] predictable. [I am] anti-A[rab] and anti-[Muslim] to the core. [Only] US allies [matter to me.] The fringe [right] is inevitably intolerant – [me] being the best example. [Would you like some more non-sequiturs and ad hominems? Too bad:] The extreme left absolutely hates the Christian right, [though the Christian right just loves the extreme left.]

[Here are some more blanket generalizations in no particular order, and in no particular relation to reality:] “…defend against Muslim bigotry even to the point of denying that there is a significant problem with radical Islam. Muslims are always the true victim to Israel and US wars and “racism”. Radical leftists are extremely anti-corporate (buying politicians) and believe that Israeli lobby, the military industrial complex and Wall Street all control US domestic and foreign policies. The radical left is much stronger in Europe than the US. [That word-salad is about the closest I’ll ever come to making an argument].

[Time for some more random rambling:] It is total, unequivocal bullshit when someone writes they can influence their own government (“….. So logically, we act and raise our voices against the acts and practices we most likely have a chance to influence as citizens…..”).

[And now finally something true: my jingoism] is an obsession which has little to do with Saudi Arabia bombing weddings in Yemen. It is completely irrelevant how many people die in Syria, the Congo or Sudan. [I] simply don’t give one flying fuck about those people. [I] just admit it, OK?

“…….Because here’s the very obvious morally and logically coherent explanation for the above–specifically the BTL “obsession” with what our nation does: We “prioritize” it because it is what we are morally and logically responsible for because it is done in “our” names with “our” tax dollars. That’s what it means to be a citizen. Further, we have very little capacity to alter what other nation’s leaders do to their own citizens, because we are not citizens of those lands. So logically, we act and raise our voices against the acts and practices we most likely have a chance to influence as citizens……..”

This is such a cop-out – and disingenuous at best.

First of all, as a citizen, you should do what you believe is right for your country, but that doesn’t mean the course of action you support is the right one, or that every other citizen agrees with your point of view. That’s how democracies work. I sure as hell don’t agree with you on the issues. Most Americans don’t share your extreme viewpoint.

On your second point, most citizens in most countries around the world have no influence over their government’s actions because most governments in power are not elected – so the idea we cannot or shouldn’t try to influence or expose their actions is misguided at best. In fact, the massacres in Rwanda, the Congo, Syria and many other places around the world indicate you are flat out wrong on that point. There is an obligation to intervene (and I don’t mean necessarily militarily). The UN was created in part for that reason and the Geneva Conventions were written for the identical reason. Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch as well as other human rights organizations were also created to “intervene” in the abuses by all governments. That’s how we know that a war crime “might” have been committed by the US at the hospital. That’s how we know that Assad committed numerous war crimes. This is what it is to be a true “liberal” – not based on selective human rights motivated strictly for political reasons.

Journalism is one powerful way to hold ALL governments accountable (just as it says in the fabricated Intercept mission statement). The Intercept has 33 journalists (listed) without a single story on the largest ongoing humanitarian disaster in the world today (except how the Russia controls the internet). How is that possible? The reason is simple. The founders of the Intercept are US-obsessed with a single interest in US politics – domestic and foreign – and, of course, US allies. Their hiring reflects their singular interest. The biggest criticism of the UN is that its members are politically driven more than they care about human rights and human disasters. This is exactly describes the Intercept – and they have proven that time and time again. You give up a degree of credibility when you write an article about Saudi Arabia bombing a wedding, but write not a single word about the use of barrel bombs, chemical weapons and chlorine gas by Assad and his supporters in Russia, Iran and Lebanon. Any idiot should be able to notice the omission (except Greenbots).

On your third point, 80 million people died in WWI and WWII. This amounted to an incredible effort by Europe to self-destruct. In addition, Japan tried to expand her empire all the way to Australia. The US was thrust into a completely different role after the world wars which you predictably simplified to the US “……bombed the living fuck…..”. The US had a lot of questionable (and stupid) policies which were unsupportable, but also sacrificed more than any other country to maintain stability and challenge the always authoritarian communist regimes. About 100,000,000 people died in the twentieth century under communism for various reasons. Lots of countries benefited from US policies like Kosovo, Bosnia (to a minor extent), Kuwait, Taiwan, South Korea, Europe, Japan, Israel and ultimately, the countries controlled by the USSR which collapsed economically allowing many to join the EU and NATO (because they understood that Russia would continue to threaten them like in Ukraine). It’s is if you believe the whole world would have been peaceful but for the US (and Israel). Your simplification of complex issues into ‘it’s always the fault of the US’ is typical of the far left.

Finally, the fringe (far, radical, hard, extreme) left is predictable as a political movement. Most share a predictable political ideology. They are anti-American and anti-Israel to the core. Everyone else (except US allies) is a victim of colonialism and modern imperialism. The fringe left is inevitably intolerant – Mona being the best example. The extreme left absolutely hates the Christian right, but will defend against Muslim bigotry even to the point of denying that there is a significant problem with radical Islam. Muslims are always the true victim to Israel and US wars and “racism”. Radical leftists are extremely anti-corporate (buying politicians) and believe that Israeli lobby, the military industrial complex and Wall Street all control US domestic and foreign policies. The radical left is much stronger in Europe than the US. It is total, unequivocal bullshit when someone writes they can influence their own government (“….. So logically, we act and raise our voices against the acts and practices we most likely have a chance to influence as citizens…..”). Anti-Americanism is an obsession which has little to do with Saudi Arabia bombing weddings in Yemen. It is completely irrelevant how many people die in Syria, the Congo or Sudan. You simply don’t give one flying fuck about those people. Just admit it, OK?

I have an idea for you and there is no snark whatsoever in anything I am about to say, so don’t look for it. Hopefully you don’t have to go into the office tomorrow (Saturday) for any reason…

Why don’t you go golfing tomorrow with a couple of friends? It’s so calming, it’s so meditative. Breath in the fresh air and the smell of cut grass. What’s better than that? Work on your swing. Forget about The Intercept and Tom Brown’s School Daze and anti-Americanism. Just mellow out, be in the moment and have a nice afternoon with some people you like to spend time with. On a beautiful golf course. Get a little distance. Disengage. Relax. It’s good for perspective.

Also, I think golfing would be better than bike riding. Because if you go for a long bike ride, you’ll just be stuck inside your head replaying debates.

Then apparently you haven’t gone on a hike since at least the very first time you ever typed a comment into a Greenwald article comment thread. That’s years of neglecting to go on a hike. So that’s one explanation of why you’re so stale.

Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoo
You’re living in your own Private Idaho
Living in your own Private Idaho
Underground like a wild potato.
Don’t go on the patio.
Beware of the pool,
blue bottomless pool.
It leads you straight
right throught the gate
that opens on the pool.

You’re living in your own Private Idaho.
You’re living in your own Private Idaho.

Keep off the path, beware of the gate,
watch out for signs that say “hidden driveways”.
Don’t let the chlorine in your eyes
blind you to the awful surprise
that’s waitin’ for you at
the bottom of the bottomless blue blue blue pool.

You’re livin in your own Private Idaho. Idaho.
You’re out of control, the rivers that roll,
you fell into the water and down to Idaho.
Get out of that state,
get out of that state you’re in.
You better beware.

You’re living in your own Private Idaho.
You’re living in your own Private Idaho.

Keep off the patio,
keep off the path.
The lawn may be green
but you better not be seen
walkin’ through the gate that leads you down,
down to a pool fraught with danger
is a pool full of strangers.

You’re living in your own Private Idaho,
where do I go from here to a better state than this.
Well, don’t be blind to the big surprise
swimming round and round like the deadly hand
of a radium clock, at the bottom of the pool.

I-I-I-daho
I-I-I-daho
Woah oh oh woah oh oh woah oh oh
Ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah
Get out of that state
Get out of that state
You’re living in your own Private Idaho,
livin in your own Private…. Idaho

To even compare American participation in WWII, and American leadership for a more peaceful world in its immediate aftermath, with todays snafu clusterfuck in Afghanistan (& for the most part, the rest of world) is an affront to all ‘real’ Americans… and basic logic.

Moreover, in twisted tragic irony, if the attack on the Doctors Without Borders hospital was “an attack on the Geneva Conventions”, then the unjustified (& unjustifiable) invasion and occupation of Afghanistan (& Iraq … not to mention the broader GWOT) is an attack on the well established agreement(s) and principles of global collective security (e.g. the United Nations) real Americans were instrumental in establishing out of the ashes of the great World Wars.

“…….To even compare American participation in WWII, and American leadership for a more peaceful world in its immediate aftermath, with todays snafu clusterfuck in Afghanistan (& for the most part, the rest of world) is an affront to all ‘real’ Americans… and basic logic…..”

I’m not one to degrade our participation in WWII. That was a masterful effort at containing some of the world’s most desperate and brutal dictators. But we did target civilians – like firebombing Dresden and Tokyo. We did drop two nuclear bombs which specifically targeted civilians. Of course, there were numerous incidents of the US killing civilians.

The US did give the Taliban the opportunity to turn over Bin Laden (which they turned down) so the invasion to remove the Taliban from power was entirely correct, and keeping the Taliban out of power is an important end goal in that war. If humanitarian concerns even enter into your mind at all, then that is another reason to keep the Taliban out of power. Remember also that it is Pakistan which supports the Taliban – and is responsible for the war coming to Pakistan (drones) and the killing of Afghan civilians. As you know by now, the Taliban are responsible for 72% of the casualties in Afghanistan (2014, UN). I’m happy to defend the invasion of Iraq as well, but that takes too much time.

That’s an interesting statement to say the least. Are we interfering in their rightful sphere of influence (area of interests), bahhummingbug? This is what Greenwald believes from his quote of the anti-Jewish bigot, As’ad AbuKhalil:

“…….Imperialism is to have the temerity to lecture and hector Russia about the evils of intervention in the affairs of its neighbor, Ukraine, where the U.S. and EU are blatantly conspiring against Russian interests there……..”

If that isn’t a blatant recognition of the Russian “sphere of influence”, I don’t know what is. However, in the air space over Syria, the Russian Air Force came late to the party – and began bombing just in the past few days. The US has been bombing for several months. So who is risking a confrontation to protect Assad the murderer? Personally, I think we should protect the Kurdish fighters and people in Syria, but otherwise, the US is bombing the greatest threat to the removal of Assad the murderer.

1) “majoritarianism” has nothing to do with what is “right”, “ethical” or “logical”;
2) America does not “intervene” in the world because of “humanitarian” concerns but rather its perceived geopolitical “interests” (primarily economics driven) and does not “expose” but rather rather supports and trades with some of the most anti-democratic, hyper-authoritarian regimes on the globe–Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE, Vietnam, China, Kuwait, Egypt . . . (so if you honestly believe America gives a shit about democracy or human rights, you are going to have to coherently explain its fundamental hypocrisy in this respect);
3) Did America intervene in a timely way and stop the genocides in Rwanda and Congo, because that’s news to the world given that they didn’t;
4) Syria is a civil war, and if we do live in a “democracy” which we don’t, and everybody seems to be recognizing that reality except you, then wouldn’t it be for the people to decide, democratically, which side we should intervene on assuming a majority of Americans (in your worldview) believe we should intervene at all–and it seems to the extent there was polling on it, 60% of Americans don’t think we should intervene:http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/25/us-syria-crisis-usa-poll-idUSBRE97O00E20130825

So are they all heartless monsters like me who don’t care about other human beings, or is it that maybe they understand that our “interventions” rarely if ever produce the results claimed by whichever American administration happens to be in power, and almost always makes the situation worse–for everybody involved?

As far as this:

It is total, unequivocal bullshit when someone writes they can influence their own government.

Which is it, do we do what we feel is “right” as “citizens” in a “democracy”, even when we have very little capacity to affect our own nominal “democratically” elected government’s actions or when the odds are very low that we can ultimately impact their decision, or do we raise our voices as “non-citizens” to combat what goes on in other nations that we are neither “citizens” of, are not physically located in, have no say in, and as against their governments which are not even “democracies” by definition not inclined to listen to citizen or non-citizen alike? And given that we have no chance of altering those government’s policies? Oh wait, do you mean by “raising our voices” sending in the US military to explosively drop our “voice” bombs all over their citizens and government?

And get it straight dimbulb with all your “radical left” and “anti-Americanism”, I am every bit the American citizen you are. And the job of a citizen is to see that his nation can be the best, most fair, most ethical and most reasoned nation it can be. And me and those that think like me, will never ever stop criticizing the actions of this nation that are carried out in our name and with our money that we disagree with, that harm others, or that expose our government for the monumental hypocrites and self-serving sociopaths they are. That is what it means to be free.

And as one final note–I’ll give you this–no matter how many people die in Syria, the Congo or Sudan, it is a tragedy. However, the US is very unlikely to “improve” or protect anyone via military intervention based on its factual track record over the last 60 + years.

Oh yeah, and I’d like to see the proof for the following Mr. Cold Warrior:

About 100,000,000 people died in the twentieth century under communism for various reasons

The founders of the Intercept are US-obsessed with a single interest in US politics – domestic and foreign – and, of course, US allies.

As I’ve said before, this is a perfectly noble focus for any outlet with influence among American audiences that seeks to push back against imperialism. If you’re one to think there’s no systemic problem in global power relations (or worse, someone who thinks imperialism is a good thing) then sure, focusing on all countries equally might be something you want.

There is an obligation to intervene (and I don’t mean necessarily militarily).

Because of the way that “obligation” is exploited, it’s much better for there to be no such obligation. I believe self-determination is paramount. Rwanda, much like 9/11, was welcomed by imperialists everywhere.

“…….The US government does have an interest in teaching MSF a lesson……”

The US also had a (real) interest in bombing the fuck out of Assad, but turned that down. The US also had a (real) interest in bombing the living piss out of Iran, but negotiated a nuclear agreement instead. The US has lots of interests. Some actually do advance their (real) geopolitical interests. Russia has a real interest in destabilizing Ukraine, annexing the Crimea Peninsula and sending in weapons and troops to punish the Ukrainian people for overthrowing the Russian puppet. Russia has a real interest in sending troops, war planes, cruise missiles and providing intelligence to Iranian, Lebanese and Syrian troops in Syria. About 300,000 people have died and millions have become refugees.

What is the difference between the hospital incident in Afghanistan and what Russia does? The Intercept only covers the killing of the medical staff in Afghanistan. They are not interested in the murderous and destabilizing policies of the Russians, Iranians or even the murderer Assad responsible for the largest humanitarian disaster in the world today – and accused of numerous war crimes.

Greenwald has published at least three articles in the past week on this one incident. Another irrelevant article appeared in the Intercept on past US bombings of civilians. This is the most important single event in the world – to the Intercept. These kinds of stories of (minor) war crimes supersede all other possible stories where far worse war crimes have been committed. Those are ignored for political reasons.

I’m sure there are always all sorts of calculations that go into such decisions. Now, you do believe the Syrian government intentionally used chemical weapons against civilians, do you not? Explain the rationale for such a conclusion.

What is the difference between the hospital incident in Afghanistan and what Russia does?

To the extent that arming and supporting militant groups is a violation of international law, then it would be legally similar. Of course, it’s very common for countries with power to support mercenaries. In any case, it would be hard to make a case that Russia is more responsible for what’s going on in Syria than the US/NATO and regional allies.

“…….Of course, it’s very common for countries with power to support mercenaries. In any case, it would be hard to make a case that Russia is more responsible for what’s going on in Syria than the US/NATO and regional allies…..”

I personally believe that statement is false. First of all, Assad is completely responsible for the civil war. In fact, with the US bombing ISIS in Syria, the US is actually helping to prop up Assad – something I personally oppose. Outside of training a few mercenaries, the US did very little in Syria for the first 2-3 years while Russia, Iran and Lebanon supplied weapons, funding, manpower and intelligence. The US even turned down a golden opportunity to bomb Assad and really set the regime back militarily.

What US allies do is not always in alignment with US policies. For example, in Yemen, the Saudis are bombing the Houthis strengthening al-Qaeda. The US is fighting al-Qaeda in Yemen. Saudi Arabia disagreed with the US denunciation of al-Sissi in Egypt for his brutal crack down – and the war in Iraq which strengthened Iran. The US does not support ISIS, but the Saudis probably did (along with other radical Islamists).

Saudi and Qatari support for anti regime rebels and radical Islamists in Syria is part of their regional supremacy battle with Iran (and the “axis of evil”). The US does not control the Saudis – and the Saudis have become increasingly disillusioned with US foreign policy under the direction of Obama. Turkey also opposes the Assad, but how the US is dealing with Turkey is an area that I am missing information.

These kinds of stories of (minor) war crimes supersede all other possible stories where far worse war crimes have been committed.

This one sentence explains you, Craig.
This one sentence condemns you, Craig.
You call it a war crime but only a minor one.
Your god of war (the US Empire) is allowed minor war crimes and other misdemeanours.
Why is the Intercept not allowed to bring war crimes (minor ones you say) to the public’s attention for compassionate people to be sickened by them?
I pity you for you have no pity.
You are blind but yet you say you see clearly.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spUsTbDAc6Y

TALKING HEADS LYRICS
“Blind”

Signs
Signs are lost
Signs disappeared
Turn invisible
Got no sign
Somebody got busted
Got a face of stone
And a ghostwritten biography
Dogs start to run in,
Hungry for some food
Dogs start a-twitching
And they’re looking at you
It was light
By five
Torn all apart
All in the name of democracy
He’s hurt
He’s dying
Claimed he was a terrorist
Claimed to avert a catastrophe
Someone should’a told him
That the buck stops here
No one ever said
That he was involved with thieves
And they’re blind, blind
blind, blind, blind, blind, blind
blind, blind
blind, blind, blind, blind, blind

No sense of harmony, No sense of
time, Don’t mention harmony, Say:
What is it? What is it? What is it? Give
a little shock, and he raises his hand
Somebody shouts out, says: What is
it? What is it? What is it?
He was shot down in the night! Peop-
ple ride by but his body’s still alive
The girl in the window what has she
done? She looks down at me …
says: “I don’t want to die!”

And I’m blind, blind
blind, blind, blind, blind, blind
blind, blind
blind, blind, blind, blind, blind
Somebody could have told us where they go
Crawling all around looking for foot, foot, footprints
Now tell me what the Hell have we become?
Some dirty little bastards What the Hell is going on?u
No sense of harmony, No sense of
time, Don’t mention harmony, Say:
What is it? What is it? What is it? Give
a little shock, and he raises his hand
Somebody shouts out, says: What is
it? What is it? What is it?
He was shot down in the night! Peop-
ple ride by but his body’s still alive
The girl in the window what has she
done? She looks down at me …
says: “I don’t want to die!”

ABC News is reporting 33 people are missing from the hospital. Incinerated, walked away, or removed to keep the body count down.
In other news, Defense Secretary Ash Carter said Russia is demonstrating, “increasing unprofessional behavior” wrt Syria. So there.

The USA give several billions dollars a year to Israel that aids them in their genocide of the Palestinian people in Gaza; our drones kill many innocents in Afghanistan, and the US government expects the MSF to trust the USA DoD will admit to wrong doing…

The UN reported that in 2014, the Taliban accounted for 72% of the civilian casualties while coalition forces accounted for 2%. A total of 10,000 civilians were injured with nearly 4000 killed. Now you do the math, OK?

“……The UNAMA report highlighted that ‘Anti-Government Elements’ remain responsible for 72 per cent of all civilian casualties. Meanwhile, Pro-Government Forces are responsible for 14 per cent of civilian casualties with 12 per cent of that linked to the Afghan national security forces and two per cent to international military forces……”

Seriously consider what you are doing when you are giving these people your gps coordinates.
They know exactly what they are doing.
The doctors will always hold the high card, they actually care about people. These military forces have never met a target they wouldn’t like to bomb into the next century .

But is the ground itself-Kunduz itself-secured well enough for such investigation to normally proceed? I think MSF should also consider the challenge from the other side. This is not to say a mistake was made, but that the entire environment should be considered. I agree war has rules, but only robots follow instructions 100% correctly 100% of the times they are given instructions.

And I’ll say this again, if the higher echelons of the US military and relevant cabinet heads, had ANY shred of integrity and honor whatsoever, they would resign. That means Gen. Campbell and Sec. of Defense Carter.

Any lower level military member who followed orders to target and fire upon the MSF hospital should be courts martialed. Anybody in the chain of command who actually ordered/approved this particular target and without requiring a warning first, should also be courts martialed or brought up on war crimes charges.

There is no other outcome that could even remotely be referred to as “justice”. And since I know absolutely none of the above will happen, with the exception of possibly some lower level service member being flayed out legally as the sacrificial offering, there will be no justice for the MSF staff and employees killed, nor the patients they were caring for who were murdered and burned alive.

“……there will be no justice for the MSF staff and employees killed, nor the patients they were caring for who were murdered and burned alive…..”

Since according to the UN, ~75% of the civilian casualties in 2014 (10,000 deaths) were caused by the Taliban – and 2% by the coalition forces – do you have the same harsh words for the Taliban leadership? Chances are you really don’t give one flying fuck about the casualties from Taliban IEDs, or attacks.

Most people tend to view themselves as good and correct most of the time. They can’t see why any independent evaluation would be needed to check the validity of that claim. This often includes military brass.

There was a reason the U.S. founding fathers believed a balance of power was needed and it should involve three branches of government.

Just because someone is absolutely convinced of their correctness doesn’t mean that future historians will judge that they were absolutely wrong in that conviction.

But at its daily press briefing on Monday, the U.S. State Department, through its spokesperson Mark Toner, insisted that no such independent investigation was needed on the ground that the U.S. government is already investigating itself …

The enduring US military strategy of denying the “enemy” resources (for instances the pursuit of Pancho Villa or Cambodian bombing and the use of agent orange to current drone policies) suggests that not only was the US attack on the hospital intentional, the military planners didn’t anticipate significant political resistance.

Agreed. It was intentional. One does not “accidentally” engage in pinpoint targeting and firing upon, for 1/2 an hour, one wing of a building.

Any fair and truly independent investigation would deem credible the MSF staff claims that there were no “Taliban” firing from their facility in the absence of verified video proof that they were. The American military knew full well its legal obligation under international law to give warning to MSF and reasonable time to abandon the premises before the premises could be struck if in fact there were Taliban firing from within the facility.

Moreover, given the very role MSF plays all over the world, unless someone can find me a single instance where MSF has collaborated or permitted one side to a conflict to fire from its facilities, or fail to report such actions to the appropriate authorities of each oppositional force, then MSF’s credibility is basically beyond reproach. The US military’s credibility going on 60 + years is non-existent. At least in the mind of anybody who isn’t a full blown full of shit propagandized American who actually believes the US military conducts itself in any sort of coherent or consistent “humanitarian” fashion. The historical record is entirely too detailed and accurate for the full of shit US military to claim any such thing. It’s job includes PR, obfuscation and lying as a matter of course. The American military is not “unique” in this respect. No civilian anywhere on the globe should take anything a high ranking military member of any country says with anything other than a humongous grain of salt and extra heaping plate full of skepticism until each and every claim made by said high ranking military member can be independently corroborated by a truly independent source with first hand information of the facts.

The militaries of the world are not in the “truth” business. They are in the killing people and propaganda business.

You can’t use the term “innocent error” here any more than you can use it to defend someone who drives the wrong way on the freeway at night with their headlights off and takes out an entire family in a minivan.

Nearly every official statement to date seeks to minimize the horror and outrage of this attack. That is simply unacceptable and further points to the need for an independent investigation. White House press secretary Josh Earnst said just yesterday: ” If it is necessary to hold individuals accountable, that will be done.” *If* it is *necessary*??

“The U.S. military cannot just dismiss this attack as “collateral damage,” which would imply that the military knew what it was doing, but thought the harm to the hospital was proportionate to the military advantage of the attack. Nor is an “accident” an acceptable explanation as it indicates that the military acted without undertaking the due diligence required to ensure the legitimacy of the target. General Campbell has admitted that the U.S. military did not follow its own protocols in carrying out this attack.

And…should corporate corruption need an extra buffer from the blow back, just throw your own journalists under the bus to protect the Company while perverting justice and journalistic privilege at the same time. Way to lead, FOX.

I’ve been telling ya’ll almost two years now Becky’s WorkBerry was a Hillary, and no police effort was made to reveal her executive erasures. From what I’ve seen, corporatists are getting away with more than murder, escape artists. They run a Prismless Office. Way to adapt to the Feds, Wassermans!

BTW, BBC is so lame, they missed the hilariously telling reply from Murdoch after Becky sent him Tony’s escape plot…”What are you doing on e-mail?”

That’s what I want to know, too, James! So why no records, hmmmm? Universally speaking…this is gangsters getting their grunts to go to jail for them, old school. OK, not so old that Pharo isn’t talking. Otherwise, it would be Murdoch in Rags, and how rich would that be Charlie? Take me to the factory!

So close, Dickens! Damn that corrupted pool of crooked toothed losers, we are gonna have to paddle that old fart’s ass ourselves. I know he’s hooked up to Q, that’s why they won’t burn his sources, and he didn’t burn them…oh he knew about Prism, you betcha. TalkTalk can’t help talking,…he’s a gangster pirate, you gonna tell The Ripper to fuck off?

The U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, Samantha Power, told the council that “no veto will stand in the way of this heinous crime being investigated and prosecuted.” -From a Reuters piece in 2014 regarding the plane that went down over Ukraine http://reut.rs/1eAUrDg
Let’s see if that is still the US position now that the finger is pointed at us.

“The facially ludicrous announcement by the State Department that the Pentagon will investigate itself produced almost no domestic outrage. A religious-like belief in American exceptionalism and tribal superiority is potent indeed”

Perhaps it was Glenn who wrote in the past about the absence of a critically needed national dialog at the behest of the Obama Administration to improve Muslim American relations. But that would be counter intuitive to Imperial actions to assure not many of us blink at drone killings and endless bombings of Mideast countries.

“They’re certain of it despite how many times, and how recently, MSF notified the U.S. military of the exact GPS coordinates of this hospital.”

Either the DoD doesn’t cross check GPS coordinates —which would induce a delay in any strike which might be time critical— or they screwed up. Also, see my comment about GPS coordinates below.

“They’re certain of it even though bombing continued for 30 minutes after MSF pleaded with them to stop.”

The called Washington DC, not local forces. I’m sure you can understand that huge bureaucracies and a long chain of command would result in long delays from “Hey, you don’t know us and we’re calling on an unsecured line, but we’re being bombed in Afghanistan” to a cease fire.

“They’re certain of it despite the substantial evidence that their Afghan allies long viewed this exact hospital with hostility because — true to its name and purpose — the group treated all wounded human beings, including Taliban.”

And there’s the key: their Afghan allies… who called in the strike.

“They’re certain of it even though Afghan officials have explicitly defended the airstrike against the hospital on the ground that Taliban were inside.”

Back to who is at fault for calling in the airstrike in the first place. If the US forces don’t cross check GPS coordinates, or don’t cross check them using an app that can quickly match locations that don’t have EXACTLY the same GPS coordinates as the single MSF PROVIDED (ex., 20 meters from the provided center coordinate of the hospital but still in the hospital), then the strike would be carried out.

“They’re certain of it despite how many times the U.S. has radically changed its story about what happened as facts emerged that proved its latest claims false.”

Huge bureaucracy once again coupled with multiple sources.

“They’re certain of it despite how many times the U.S. has attacked and destroyed civilian targets under extremely suspicious circumstances.”

All good points some of which agree with my comments: Morality of war and this war aside; once a firing solution is locked in to a closed loop command and control structure, it is not a fast fix from outside that loop. NATO and DC would be playing catch up down through the chain of command. Once done not so easily undone, time lost, lives lost, when it goes wrong if not directly in the loop there will be delay, no fast fix.

A largely laughable justification for an obscene act. In the first place, this hospital has been in Kunduz for four years – three and three quarters of which time Kunduz was in US/Afghan possession. So questions about our awareness of its existence and precise location are absurd.

Second it the issue of who ordered the strike. General Campbell himself said that the strike was ordered by US forces and approved through the US chain of command. So the involvement of Afghans is immaterial.

Finally, just about everyone discounts the ability of the AC-130 aircrew to see what they are shooting at. I have personally seen imagery from the previous generation AC-130 FLIR system and can assure you that they were able to make out the shape and location of the building in total darkness. Conditions for infrared imaging in the 8 – 12 micrometer band just don’t get any better than they are in Afghanistan, and are improved even more by the 1800 meter altitude of Kunduz. Even if the idiots on the ground did not know they were targeting a hospital, the aircrew should have. It’s not like they did not have a map of the city available to them, and it’s not like they were using the same fire control methods they employed in the pre-GPS days of Vietnam.

This was a “mistake” because it is too big to whitewash. No one of higher grade up the chain of command in their right mind would knowingly terminate their career by such a disastrous fire mission/war crime. This one is too big to swipe under the rug. It will generate too much heat and light to hide.

Operations and lethality of the weapons got out of control. Someone(s) made a mistake and/or committed a crime. The step by step required communications for who called up and executed the fire mission and who feed and checked the coordinates is on record and when revealed the cause and consequences must fall where they may. If any of this is covered up someone(s) commented a war crime and someone(s) is/ are trying to paint over it. When it goes this wrong best to set it right ASAP.

It will be the failure of the zionist MSM to investigate this,like every other atrocity and stupid error since 9-11,that have faded from the historical record.
This all zionist inspired,why would they want their project to destabilize and disrupt the peoples of the region and keep them in misery be jeopardized by the light of day and impugn their project of eretz israel?

It has been almost seven years since Obama became our president and the kindest thing I can suppose is that by “letting the warriors and the spies do their thing”. That he has given himself space to achieve some amazing things Healthcare, collecting loose plutonium and putting in a slightly safer place, making peace with Cuba, reforming the prison system…
I want to give him credit for doing the best in a bad situation, but it is hard to be sure that he isn’t the heartless tyrant, darker skinned Kissinger and perpetrator of Real Politik that we see in times like this.

Do we see the darker side of Jack Kennedy strategizing against a hostile military and surveillance state to keep us on just this side of disaster or is he power mad just paying the game without regard to the “collateral damage”. Only time will tell or perhaps like 9-11 we will continue to wonder what really happened, a stupid collection of coincidences that allowed a hair-brained terrorist scheme to be so bloody effective or the awful conspiracy of the ruling elite to wipe out all resistance (Gleichschaltung). What a way to start my day.

It was no accident nor is there a mystery on who committed or is responsible for this outrage. Doctor’s Without Borders is against Obumer’s TPP because what it will do to the price of some pharmaceuticals all around the world. Their only accident in their eyes was in not leveling the entire hospital and then in getting caught after the fact. All the govt neocons are really just (so far at least) un-convicted felons. Hopefully in the years ahead that will change and there will be less…of what ales us as a country in the neocon variety anyway.

Whatever the truth is about the American bombing of the MSF hospital in Afghanistan, can’t be as bad as some people imagine. It is therefore ironically in the United States own interests to allow an independent inquiry to take place. Who is going to believe the results of the 3 American investigations taking place? No person with an inquiring mind is going to accept the American military’s own investigation into their own actions.
On a personal level, no American inquiry is going to persuade me that this wasn’t a deliberate and planned act. If it was deliberate – it is in America’s own interest that this be made public. What we now know is that someone ordered the bombing of the hospital. If it wasn’t deliberate, it is in America’s own interest that the rest of the world believe it.
Whatever the truth, only an independent inquiry will persuade those in countries other than the USA of the truth of the matter.

What if it’s deliberate and in line with policy? I think it’s not only possible that the attack was intentional, but also that the US and Afghan governments achieved much of what they hoped to achieve. MSF has packed its bags and is out of Afghanistan. Plus a message has been sent to other humanitarians who might think about helping all sides of any conflict the US is involved in.

Whenever conventional wisdom is that the US has perpetrated yet another “blunder”, sober Chomskian analysis will tend to show that’s not exactly the case. The US government might not be a particular moral or principled actor, but it is fairly rational and consistent.

Exactly. Press humanitarian organizations to the wall, so that they stop coming around and seeing what’s happening. Use senseless death to frighten them so that they stop doing what they are doing. ie, the usual strategy of the entity that yells “terrorist” and “terrorism” the firstest and the mostest.

“DoD, State, and CIA have their dicks out and they’re standing in a circle waggling them around right now. They’re grabbing their crotches and laughing and pointing. Let’s let these three dick-waggers run their course and after the janitor cleans up we’ll see what the results are.”

Nobody wants to believe that their country is responsible for bombing a hospital that had no association with any terror group or political organization. The way people respond to this is not unexpected.

While the media has often blindly sided with the government, I think this is a bit different. It goes beyond the realm of politics and the media and forces all Americans to question the legitimacy of what we were told to believe about our country since we were a child. When forced to do this, we experience cognitive dissonance as we attempt to rationalize the unthinkable with what we believe about our country.

I don’t blame people for feeling this way. Cognitive dissonance is a part of the human condition that we all subject ourselves to at some point in our lives. So, I think we should empathize with these people at the start because they are still coming to terms with what happened.

Once people come to terms with this atrocity, they must decide whether to close their eyes and ears and shut out these attacks or to accept them as part of who we are and take them into account when evaluating what our country stands for. People in their 90’s aren’t going to change their minds because of a bombed out hospital or even a series of bombed out hospitals. They’re so deeply indoctrinated that nothing will shake their convictions. However, it appears that millennials are catching on a bit and are more likely to question the legitimacy of the actions the government takes in their name. Let’s hope this trend continues.

I’m not sure about most others in my generation, but I am definitely one of those millennials that caught on to the corruption and inhumanity of our government, thanks to a bit of research (a big thanks to Chalmers Johnson and his Blowback Trilogy; everyone needs to read his books). I started voting Green in 2010 and ended up joining the party in 2012, because I refuse to vote for neoliberals/neoconservatives after what I found out about our country’s foreign policy over the decades.

I am most definitely not a millennial, and it is my strong conviction that the millennials have to size the moment and the day to get involved in issues such as this. I find it very disappointing that my generation which had the impact of changing the dynamics of the Viet Nam War, (some in the Pacific Rim still call it America’s War) have gotten their phd’s and are content driving around in their hybrid SUV’s and are more concerned with the performance of their 401k’s. Speak up young folks!!

President Obama and Saudi Prince Abdullah should both stop bombing weddings, hospitals, civilians and sovereign nations, but the US, on the UN Security Council, can veto referral of any case to the International Criminal Court (ICC).

They bombed the MSF hospital because it was an obstacle of sorts, a place whose very existence made restrictive claims and placed impositions and restrictions on the U.S. military’s total ‘decisionality ‘ over Kabul at any given moment, and so they destroyed it, at the cost of claiming it was an accident. Now military decisionality is no longer unmolested by a foreign ‘particle’ reliant and representative of ‘international law’, which the U.S. abhors to recognize in any case where it may operate as an imposition on it, as a subtractor of decisionality and control.

Possibility they hit and took out the hospital because they believed a high level target of opportunity was in the hospital perhaps receiving medical assistance, after the special operations carried out by US special forces and Afghan soldiers. US special forces are often protected by the 130 during night raids.
What you say is true enough though.

That high value target;OBLs doubles ghost?:)
Wasn’t a C130 shot ?down a couple? of weeks ago with the loss of life?Rogue retribution?
Why does our MSM defend this evil by obfuscation and outright lies?Why do they not call our f*ckup leadership to account?
Perpetrators on the jury judging themselves;hahahahaha…and the MSM failing to call out the naked hypocrisy.

The Lockheed AC-130 gunship is a heavily armed, long-endurance ground-attack aircraft. It carries a wide array of anti-ground oriented weapons that are integrated with sophisticated sensors, navigation, and fire-control systems. Unlike other military fixed-wing aircraft, the AC130 relies on visual targeting. Because of its large profile and because it operates at low altitude (roughly 7,000 ft) it usually flies close air support missions at night.[2]

It is a variant of the C-130 Hercules transport. The airframe is manufactured by Lockheed Martin, while Boeing is responsible for the conversion into a gunship and for aircraft support.[3] The AC-130A Gunship II superseded the AC-47 Gunship I during the Vietnam War. The gunship’s sole user is the United States Air Force, which uses AC-130U Spooky and AC-130W Stinger II[4] variants for close air support, air interdiction, and force protection, with AC-130J Ghostrider in development. Close air support roles include supporting ground troops, escorting convoys, and urban operations. Air interdiction missions are conducted against planned targets and targets of opportunity. Force protection missions include defending air bases and other facilities. AC-130Us are based at Hurlburt Field, Florida, while AC-130Ws are based at Cannon AFB, New Mexico; gunships can be deployed worldwide.[5] The squadrons are part of the Air Force Special Operations Command (AFSOC), a component of the United States Special Operations Command (SOCOM).[6]

Weaponry is mounted to fire from the port side of the non-pressurised aircraft. During an attack the gunship performs a pylon turn, flying in a large circle around a target, allowing it to fire for far longer than conventional attack aircraft. The AC-130H Spectre was armed with two 20 mm M61 Vulcan cannons, one Bofors 40mm autocannon, and one 105 mm M102 cannon; after 1994 the 20 mm cannons were removed for most missions. The upgraded AC-130U “Spooky” has a single 25 mm GAU-12 Equalizer in place of the Spectre’s twin 20 mm cannons, an improved fire control system, and increased ammunition capacity. New AC-130Js based on the MC-130J Combat Shadow II special operations tanker were planned as of 2012. The AC-130W is armed with one 30 mm Bushmaster cannon, AGM-176 Griffin missiles, and GBU-39 Small Diameter Bombs.[7]
snip

There is nothing about this incident that makes any sense. I believe that the US has perfected the art of war to the point that they don’t have technical glitches, miscommunication, nor do they miss their intended targets. Of course they don’t want an outside group looking into this incident. Therefore, the only explanation is that “it’s all about the money”. Doctors Without Borders just received the memo that bad mouthing the Trans Pacific Partnership will not be tolerated. 20+ deaths for the huge TPP payday is nothing in a world of unsafe food, toxic chemicals in everything, and air unfit to breathe. Watch out, Hilary’s campaign headquarters is next.

If you think Hillary Clinton or her organization presents any kind of threat to the corporate/TPP status quo . . . . or to ANY status quo, for that mattter . . . such that her HQ would be a target for authoritarian actions meant to silence her or her organization, then you are living in la-la land.

Hillary is part and parcel of the corporate-MIC status quo. She’d be the LAST person anyone in power would want to target because she represented some kind of threat to business as usual on the part of our corporate-MIC masters.

A pundit at USA Today is outraged at the trivialization of the term war crime:

To use the term “war crime” to describe the dreadful air-strike on the Afghan hospital is to equate it to Babi Yar, the ravine in Ukraine where tens of thousands of Jews were willfully and systematically slaughtered by Nazi troops. Only someone blinded by moral obtuseness would draw such a comparison. Yet prominent commentators such as Glenn Greenwald who publicized the revelations of Edward Snowden unblushingly used the term. If every blunder by an army in the course of a battle is seen as a war crime then the term has been defined out of existence and the horror that such incidents represent is trivialized.

So much for the ill conceived article 8 of the Rome Statute. It is obvious that investigating this under the Geneva Conventions, where every little act of deliberately targeting civilians is defined as a “war crime”, would be a great disservice to the memory of war crimes.

Oddly, the link in the article is to a tweet by Glenn Greenwald last year referring to John Yoo, not to more recent events.

As you know, only Fascists, Nazis, and Communists commit war crimes. We must keep the white cloak of late modern capitalism unsullied, lest it cease to shine forth and fail to be a beacon of light to the less enlightened. Plus it’s hard to get those stains out once you admit to them.
Let us now praise the alabaster glory of the Holocaust (and Israel).

It is even worse than that, and there is an example from this very war. In 2009 (during the first Obama administration) the Taliban stole a couple of fuel trucks. NATO air elements (specifically, USAF) found the trucks, and the authority on the ground (a German LtCol) ordered them to attack them. Which they did, killing about 150 civilians who were taking the fuel for their own use. The pilots had warned the authority of the presence of a crowd, but he had ordered the strike anyway. In the aftermath, the German was court-martialed, but nothing happened to the pilots. Having visual contact, the pilots had the grounds for disobeying what was in fact an illegal order, but they did not. Being Americans, nothing happened to them. Had they also been Germans, they would be sitting in jail, as richly deserved. The moral of this is that everyone has to play by the rules except the Americans (and the Israelis), who have been chosen by god to show the way of righteousness.

Why is the Government refusing a truly independent investigation into the attack on the Hospital Mr. Greenwald?

For exactly the same reason they are refusing the petition signed by 2,350 Archetects and Engineers requesting a truly independent investigation into the ‘collapse’ of the World Trade Center towers, all three of them including WTC7. Now Glen, I am sure you may be aware that the official NIST investigation into the ‘collapse’ of these buildings are deeply contested. NIST I am sure you must be aware, is part of the Commerce Department, so essentially it was the government investigating the government. Sound familiar Glen?

Now Glen, you know how much I deeply I respect you (no bullshit) on everything other than 9/11. I know you have dismissed us ‘Conspiracy theorists’ …….but let me ask you Glen, if the government has nothing to hide, then a truly independent investigation into the ‘collapse’ of these building should exonerate the government from and suspicion that these buildings came down by explosives as these 2,350 Archetects and Engineers alledge was indeed the real cause.

Glen, your argument (which I agree with) does cut two ways, does it not? Even if you truly believe that a truly independent investigation into the collapse of these buildings would conclude no explosives were used, why would you not support such an investigation to put this matter to rest? Obviously the NIST investigation had all the hallmarks one would expect to see in a cover-up. Glen with 2,350 professionals with licenses and degrees putting their professional reputations on the line, should you not be the first one agreeing that a real independent investigation is needed to clear this matter up finally……even if you believe it would prove them wrong?

Honestly who cares? Have you seen pictures of that hospital? I wouldn’t call it much of a facility to begin with. If anything this is a blessing as the USA will just pay for a new state of the art one for your crappy war torn county. If you hate the USA so much, maybe we should cut off all funding and military support and leave you to the savages.

Jose, sociopaths seem to be the norm now. Every day here we read about atrocities and people leave comments about the victims that are stunningly cruel and callous. And there is often a xenophobic and tribalistic text or subtext there and/or some kind of justification based on US superiority.

But I don’t know how it can be more evident that the US has no moral authority in the world. I wonder if a lot of the rage and hatred that we see comes from the huge gulf between what these people imagine America is and what the truth is. Of all the places on the internet, this is surely one that does the most to highlight this gulf. Maybe those people come here and rage because TI is such a threat to their imaginary world.

A standing army is a permanent, often professional, army. It is composed of full-time soldiers (who may be either career soldiers or conscripts) and is not disbanded during times of peace. It differs from army reserves, who are enrolled for the long term, but activated only during wars or natural disasters, and temporary armies, which are raised from the civilian population only during a war or threat of war and disbanded once the war or threat is over. Standing armies tend to be better equipped, better trained, and better prepared for emergencies, defensive deterrence and, particularly, wars.[1] The term dates from approximately 1600, although the phenomenon it describes is much older.[2]

You think the world was just savages in the Middle East before U.S. intervention? You think the same country that was founded by savage destruction and genocide of an indigenous population is now completely free of it’s rooted aggression merely because it superficially proposes a democratic and free society globally? You forget the way things have turned. You forget the imperial veins that are pumping U.S. ambitions throughout the world.

My friend, the people on the other side are no different than you or I. You may have been raised and think of yourself as long standing, but remember how young you are, compared to the ideas of democracy. And how infantile those are compared to the span of Humanity. How infantile even THAT is, compared to this planet’s evolution. Human thought can perpetuate an idea of self-centerdness if it is left unchecked. Don’t forsake your ability to see for your desire to be superior. Please. It is all we have left, our observance. We no longer make the choices that govern society. We are no longer the attended people. We are all made pawns, and no king likes a better pawn than one who embraces and adorns his pawnliness (add it to the dictionary)

Mr Greenwald,
I like your tenacity in following up with this unfortunate accident daily, but if we keep entertaining such micro level complaints in a war then how are we going to deal with situations where nukes have to be unleashed? I think we just let it pass since all sorts of illegal, unpunished killings happen even in peaceful areas of the world, especially if there are blacks or muslims involved.
-H

That’s not what I said. I meant that if we get bogged down with the killing of twenty or less people then it will be impossible to deal with situations where nukes are used where hundreds of thousands can get sent to the afterlife. Till today has anyone been held to account for the bombings in Japan? Even the Japanese government now acts like a pet poodle in the same way as UK and Germany and Australia and probably the rest of the world except North Korea, Russia and China. So what’s the point digging this up daily?

A) If we don’t push back against the “small” atrocities, we won’t have credibility to push back against the bigger ones (“you didn’t say anything when we blew up that hospital, so why are you so bent out of shape that we blew up this apartment complex? Libtard hypocrites!”).

B) If we ever get to the point where we use nukes again, “dealing with the situation” will be academic. And if you’re suggesting that we need to hold someone accountable for Hiroshima and Nagasaki, there’s no one left to hold accountable. I have no idea what your point is bringing that into this.

If we keep pressing in the situations where “twenty or less” people are killed, perhaps we can avoid altogether the possibility of the same military psychopath’s use of nukes where hundreds of thousands are killed. If we can prevent little war criminals from turning into big war criminals, by removing them “from play” early enough, we’ll be in a lot better shape than we are in now. Declare war a war crime and start prosecuting.

These two can do absolutely no wrong. Each and everyone of them are angels and Mother Teresas totally incapable of having even a bad thought!

The AP article that breathlessly rushed in with a story about weapons inside the hospital? It was not a mistake. Because all their mistakes always end up being helpful to the military. Always supportive of whatever position the military has. Why they never make a mistake that’s not helpful to the military propaganda? The reporter went to work with the mindset to vindicate his beloved military. He just got a bit carried away and neglected to put on a veneer of credibility. You can’t just come out and become too apparent for your patriotic bias.

The U.S. account of the attack has shifted constantly. At first, the hospital deaths were termed “collateral damage” in air strikes targeting nearby Taliban forces threatening the city of Kunduz, and the building was said to have been hit accidentally. But almost immediately it became clear that the hospital was the sole focus of a precise air bombardment that gutted the facility, killing 22 people and wounding 37 more.

All kinds of explanations can be devised for why the world’s most advanced military may have believed it was destroying a Taliban stronghold and not a health-care facility. A few of these excuses have been advanced in the past few days, only to be modified as angry rebuttals from MSF officials show them to be dubious and self-serving.

That the building was known to be a hospital is beyond doubt. MSF regularly notified military authorities of the facility’s GPS co-ordinates. Hospitals are protected under international humanitarian law, and to attack them deliberately would constitute a war crime.

A letter written by Tom Glen, a 21-year-old soldier of the 11th Light Infantry Brigade to General Creighton Abrams, the new overall commander of U.S. forces in Vietnam. Written after the My Lai massacre, which was still being described by the Army as a military victory that had resulted in the deaths of 128 enemy combatants.

The letter is as relevant today as it was decades ago, if not more so now with the myriad of wars, the massive and ever-growing numbers of civilian casualties, the spin and the new technologies used.

“It would indeed be terrible to find it necessary to believe that an American soldier that harbors such racial intolerance and disregard for justice and human feeling is a prototype of all American national character; yet the frequency of such soldiers lends credulity to such beliefs. …

What has been outlined here I have seen not only in my own unit, but also in others we have worked with, and I fear it is universal. If this is indeed the case, it is a problem which cannot be overlooked, but can through a more firm implementation of the codes of MACV (Military Assistance Command Vietnam) and the Geneva Conventions, perhaps be eradicated”

Kurlansky, Mark. 1968: The Year That Rocked the World. New York: Ballantine, 2004, p. 106.

Keep plugging away until the truth is outed and justice is served, it wasn’t for the My Lai Massacre, which was never recognized or prosecuted as a war crime.

On the call with the medical charity’s president, Joanne Liu, Obama also said the U.S. investigation into the incident would “provide a transparent, thorough and objective accounting of the facts and circumstances of the incident. And that, if necessary, the president would implement changes to make tragedies like this one less likely to occur in the future,” White House spokesman Josh Earnest told reporters.

Agreed, as long as it is EVERY candidate that is likely to be on the majority of state ballots, so people can compare the likes of Hillary and Bernie (who have iffy to outright awful foreign policy ideas) to the Green Party’s Jill Stein.

We are entering a new environment, what with Russia’s robust challenge to Assad’s enemies, including ISIL. How will its new kinetic policy in the region be viewed globally? If the U.S. and its “media allies” fudge in its “investigations” of the MSF incident, many around the world may conclude that the U.S. has lost its way and is in danger of forfeiting its (putative) global moral leadership. It is in this area of “soft power” that the significance of the despicable events in Kunduz will most tellingly resonate.

To investigate is racist. Fast and Furious, IRS, EPA, Benghazi, VA, private Emai Server. Those are all being meticulously investigated. So transparently and expeditiously. You just have to have patience. And look on the bright side, if Obama can’t get to bottom of it, Hillary just told us on national TV that she is the most transparent person in the world.

It was just a few doctors, nurses, and patients. At this point, what difference does it make.

Toner:
“I mean, frankly, I think we’ve proven over time that we can investigate incidents like these – like this, and as I said, hold anyone accountable who needs to be held accountable, and do it in such a way that’s transparent and, I think, credible.”

It was not an innocent accident but it was obviously an accident. No American pilot would deliberately blow up a hospital. Glenn jumps on any issue thats appears to degrade the US and never seems to see the good America does when there is trouble with earthquakes, floods etc. America is not perfect and Obama is a total disaster to the world but what other country is everybody trying to get into. Glenn, ISIS/Taliban are the problem if you can’t see that then get some new glasses.

What a childish statement you’ve made and what a dreamland you are living in if you honestly believe that. Just a click away from where you’ve posted that comment is a piece right here on The Intercept with gives several examples of US doing similar or exactly that.

The U.S. purposefully targeted an air raid shelter near the Baghdad airport with two 2,000-pound laser-guided bombs, which punched through ten feet of concrete and killed at least 408 Iraqi civilians. A BBC journalist reported that “we saw the charred and mutilated remains … They were piled onto the back of a truck; many were barely recognizable as human.” Meanwhile, Army Lt. Gen. Thomas Kelly of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff said: “We are chagrined if [civilian] people were hurt, but the only information we have about people being hurt is coming out of the controlled press in Baghdad.” Another U.S. general claimed the shelter was “an active command-and-control structure,” while anonymous officials said military trucks and limousines for Iraq’s senior leadership had been seen at the building.

In his 1995 CNN interview, Hussein Kamel said “there was no leadership there. There was a transmission apparatus for the Iraqi intelligence, but the allies had the ability to monitor that apparatus and knew that it was not important.” The Iraqi blogger Riverbend later wrote that several years after the attack, she went to the shelter and met a “small, slight woman” who now lived in the shelter and gave visitors unofficial tours. Eight of her nine children had been killed in the bombing.

Glenn jumps on any issue thats appears to degrade the US and never seems to see the good America does when there is trouble with earthquakes, floods etc.

Lots of nations respond to other’s natural disasters. So what? Do you think that because we dig some wells and provide disaster aid, we should be immune from the consequences of your immoral or illegal acts? If so what sort of level of intellectual and moral bankruptcy does it take to make that argument because most sentient people understand it for the red herring or non-sequitur that it is.

America is not perfect and Obama is a total disaster to the world but what other country is everybody trying to get into.

Most people, if you mean immigrants, want to “get into” any place that is marginally better than where they are coming from and most readily accessible and geographically proximate. Syrians aren’t streaming into America, they are streaming into Europe. Does that mean Europe is the “best” most desired place rather than America? Of course not, in fact it means nothing except what I said, necessity, opportunity and accessibility are what drives 99% of immigration to any nation. It’s precisely why so many immigrate to America through its southern border from all points and nations south. Not, “Oh I think this is the bestest place ever.”

Glenn, ISIS/Taliban are the problem if you can’t see that then get some new glasses.

So is a nation that has started two disastrous wars in the last 15 years and basically been making war on some nation somewhere going on 60 + years. Most of us can walk and chew gum at the same time, so we understand both are “a problem”. But ISIS will never kill as many people as the US has in the last 60 + years even in their wildest dreams. So I think I’ll stick with criticizing first and foremost the nation I at least have a theoretical responsibility and opportunity to affect, and then to the “atrocities” of ISIS.

– “It was not an innocent accident but it was obviously an accident. No American pilot would deliberately blow up a hospital.”

They’ve got a point Glenn, no true American would do such a thing.

No true Scotsman is an informal fallacy, an ad hoc attempt to retain an unreasoned assertion.When faced with a counterexample to a universal claim (“no Scotsman would do such a thing”), rather than denying the counterexample or rejecting the original claim, this fallacy modifies the subject of the assertion to exclude the specific case or others like it by rhetoric, without reference to any specific objective rule (“no true Scotsman would do such a thing”).

Sure they would. There are any number of reasons. Maybe the pilot didn’t know it was a hospital; it was just a building that the C.O. said “bomb this.” Maybe the GPS screwed up the coordinates. Maybe some moron typed in the coordinates wrong. Without a credible external investigation, we will almost certainly never know the real reason this happened. Too many gold-plated asses on the line that need covering.

MSF said it sent a letter on Tuesday to the 76 countries who ratified the additional protocol of the Geneva Convention that set up the Swiss-based commission of 15 experts in 1991. It was in talks with Switzerland about maybe convening the commission.

Neither the United States nor Afghanistan are signatories to the commission, and the consent of the states involved is necessary to activate the unprecedented inquiry, Saulnier said.

Yes, you are correct that many typical Americans do not believe in such exceptionalism. But the corporate media, who’s function it is to promote ideas and outlooks that favor the interests of the ruling classes in this country, nonetheless are wedded to this idea and push it incessantly.

In fact, it would be interesting to see what would happen if any political candidate for national office openly questioned the idea of “exceptionalism.” I am willing to bet on how quickly the corporate media, or one of their so-called bought-and-paid-for “pundits,” would attack that candidate for expressing such “blasphemous” views. In this way, the corporate media act as a kind of “thought police” on what one can and cannot say in our public fora.

Lance Cpl. Gregory Buckley Jr. told his father what was troubling him: From his bunk in southern Afghanistan, he could hear Afghan police officers sexually abusing boys they had brought to the base.

“At night we can hear them screaming, but we’re not allowed to do anything about it,” the Marine’s father, Gregory Buckley Sr., recalled his son telling him before he was shot to death at the base in 2012.
snip

Lance Cpl. Gregory Buckley Jr, was a good man, if only there were more like him.

The government investigation …
has determined the hospital in Kunduz was actually a veterinary hospital.
‘A few bad apples in the AC130 took out their frustration after being denied sexual intercourse with the domesticated animals by the veterinary staff present.’ said Gen. Turgidson, USAF, who continued, ‘We saw this in Abu Ghraib, where excesses by a small number of bad apples managed to undo all the great work of many dedicated soldiers.’ He cited a recent story in The Intercept that confirmed his premise that “choices made by a few junior soldiers could undermine an entire war effort.”

The obvious answer to the question – so that the US can whitewash the incident, allowing the investigation to go on into infinity – is not the most important reason why the US will not allow an independent investigation of the attack on the MSF Surgical Hospital. The most important reason is that it would set a precedent by recognizing the existence of an outside authority. That would inevitably lead to subpoenas for a long list of American war criminals, including a majority of the living US presidents. It would constitute the death knell of American exceptionalism, because it would put the military and civilian leadership on notice that they will be held accountable for their crimes.

At the rate we are spending our good will in the world and neglecting the futures of our own citizens for the sake of military adventures and corporate speculation, the day is not long off when the rest of the world will lose its fear of the US, and call its criminal leadership class to account. I only hope I live long enough to see it.

“Afghan officials have explicitly defended the airstrike against the hospital on the ground that Taliban were inside. ”

Afghan officials are full of hypocrisy and double-standard. Afghan officials would have turned the hell loose, had that been done by Pakistan (with whom Afghan officials are never at peace) —- but that’s O.K. because the U.S. actually had some ‘good intentions’ of bombing a civilian hospital…

This double standard by the West and International Court of Justice and other should come to an end; the hypocrisy of dragging and maligning non-Western countries by accusing them of “violation of sovereignty / human-rights etc” BUT when it comes to their own vicious misdeeds; they find all the “ready-made” excuses in the world to throw in.

I’d be willing to wager there’s a story brewing in this–specifically how it will be catapulted by every major western media source to whip up more fear and attempt to justify the continuation of the “GWOT”.

As soon as I saw the ‘nuclear material being offered to terrorists’ story I thought, Look over there everybody!!!!
As far as the guy’s CV, my first thought is, alphabet soup.
Following Doughy Pantaloons could be for coordinating disinformation.

The questioner at the State Department presser is going down the wrong path. Afghanistan is a State party to the Rome Statute and the Prosecutor has an open preliminary examination into the situation there. There is no need for a Security Council referral. The Prosecutor can act now.

However, the case would likely have jurisdictional problems in any event, because the Court defers in the first instance to national authorities to investigate crimes under the principle of complementarity.

I would assume there are another of other restrictions that prevent US cooperation with the Court on this matter as part of US statutory law and via agreement with Afghanistan.

But I assume there is nothing stopping a complaint to be filed with the ICC Prosecutor about Afghan authorities participation even right now.

That I can confirm, having seen Pave Spectre FLIR imagery with intercom voice-over during Vietnam. The Air Farce made sure the plane was well equipped so they could parade the videos before Congress. As it is FLIR (Forward Looking Infrared) imagery, one can see buildings and vehicles, so this imagery should lay to rest any remaining doubt about the attackers knowing what they were shooting at.

“MR TONER: I mean, frankly, I think we’ve proven over time that we can investigate incidents like these – like this, and as I said, hold anyone accountable who needs to be held accountable, and do it in such a way that’s transparent and, I think, credible.”

Yes we can! Just like the US government investigated the financial meltdown and the torturers; and don’t forget the bang-up job they did on 911! Trust the US to blame everyone else for its crimes.

The ability of government agencies to investigate themselves and hold anyone accountable who they determine needs to be held accountable, and to do so in a way they feel is transparent and credible, is indeed well-proven over time. Unfortunately, their ability to do so in a way that holds accountable those who actually should be accountable and to do it in a way that is transparent and credible to the satisfaction of anyone outside their agencies is frankly also well-proven over time…to be often laughably negligible.

In other words, +1 to cwradio.

Off-topic, does anyone else think “Mr. Toner” is a somewhat unfortunate name? Is his first name “Laser”?

/sarcasm
So it seem that whatever America does -torture/murder people without due process, bomb hospitals, funerals, weddings, and other miscellaneous innocent civilians is incapable of committing any kind of war crime whatsoever
/endsacasm

Well to be fair, “imminence” in the American elite’s lexicon means “prospectively reaching to infinity”. In other words the mere theoretical possibility of some event happening in the future, ever, means it is “imminent” and will “necessarily occur”. And because all theoretical possibilities are “imminent” by definition actions must be taken today to preemptively kill that possibility from ever manifesting. Illogical of course, Orwellian to be sure and born of Minority Reportish levels of irrational paranoia, but hey that’s how America rolls. Just ask Don Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney they can really drill into the details for you if you’re interested.

/sarcasm
Yes, but those included as Imminent Threats, though not necessarily threatening the US imminently, are eminently capable of doing so. In the interest of ecumenicism the US government has changed its rules, so that not only Muslim women and children, but Christian ones as well, are terrorists if the sixteen degrees of separation criterion applies.
/end sarcasm

No, see, everyone’s gotten it wrong. They aren’t “imminent threats,” they’re “immanent threats.” It doesn’t matter if they are threatening the U.S. at the moment; by their very existence, they are threats.

There is only one instance where I find American exceptionalism acceptable: drop-down menus when filling out web forms. I enjoy the time saved not having to scroll through all of those other countries to the ‘U’ section. But seriously, the ultra nationalism in the U.S. has to stop.

Sounds like a case tailor-made for an adjudication–by the ICJ–of competing claims. It’s fine for MSF to allege a war crime, and equally so for the US to defend on the basis of lack of intent. If both sides are interested in quality investigations, there is little ground for objecting to a legitimate judicial proceeding to determine which version of the story prevails. And pigs will fly….

I don’t know bout any1 else… but in this day and age I’m done believing anything Anglo-American governments disseminate as truth surround dubious events. We’d be imbeciles to accept chapter and verse their drivel. Period. Zerohedge.com had a bit yesterday too regarding MSF outspoken criticism of the TTP…

Actually, the United States used to at least PRETEND to care about prosecuting US war crimes, as they did after the My Lai Massacre in 1969. The American people were outraged and Lt. William L. Calley Jr. received a “life sentence” – only to be pardoned & released 3 years later. The US can’t even muster up that much of a half-assed charade anymore.

Yeah, it’s the LARGE WHITE BUILDING LITERALLY SHAPED LIKE A CROSS amongst a vast sea of low-level shacks. Kind of puts some perspective on all those claims that MSF didn’t properly mark their building as a hospital by painting white crosses or crescents on it.

OCTOBER 3, 2015 — Doctors Without Borders/Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) condemns in the strongest possible terms the horrific bombing of its hospital in Kunduz, which was full of staff and patients. MSF wishes to clarify that all parties to the conflict, including in Kabul and Washington, were clearly informed of the precise location (GPS Coordinates) of the MSF facilities in Kunduz, including the hospital, guesthouse, office and an outreach stabilization unit in Chardara northwest of Kunduz.

As it does in all conflict contexts, MSF communicated the precise locations of its facilities to all parties on multiple occasions over the past months, including most recently on September 29.

Thanks for the link. I saw the very big hospital and, since it was inviting me to , I checked out the link to ‘nearby restaurants and hotels’ but not too much in the area. Hard to believe they didn’t know what they were doing and to whom.

Somehow the scenario of the sustained bombing after being advised reminded me of the USS Liberty.

I’m not much of a nationalist but proud of fellow Canadian and MSF president Joanne Liu for standing up to the man. Read her wiki page–she dreamed of being a doctor without borders since the age of 13 and since then has been all around the world serving humankind in some of the more dangerous places. An inspiriation.

OK, from dictionary.com:
Sexism
adjective
1. relating to, involving, or fostering sexism, or attitudes and behavior toward someone based on the person’s gender: a sexist remark;
sexist advertising.
noun
2. a person who has sexist attitudes or behaves in a sexist manner.

So Kay is sexist because she is judging Kitty on the basis of Kitty being a woman — because Kitty is a woman, she should “know better” (presumably, than a man). Kay’s attitude toward Kitty is based on the fact that Kitty is woman. That’s sexism, by defintion.

In your eagerness & haste to prove you are right you come up with non-descriptive descriptions of sexism. Both definitions use the word sexist or sexism to describe sexism.
How about this: unfair treatment of people (esp. women) because of their sex. Kay does not treat Kitty in an unfair way, on the contrary, she praises her for being a woman & assumes her to be intelligent.
So next time you want to do battle on definitions, use a real dictionary.
Sleep well.

Ugh. You asked me, not to provide my own definition, but to “look up the word in the dictionary.” That’s what I did. I am no lexicographer — but you are!

So let’s use your definition, even though it redounds on the conception of “fair,” which you cruelly don’t provide to my ignorant mind. So it’s every bit as circular as any other definition in a world where we can’t nail down the concept of a concept. Oh, nevermind. The point is this: Kitty “unfairly” expects certain behavior out of people because of their sex. She doesn’t judge people as individuals but by virtue of their genitalia. That’s sexism, even by your own personal definition, which you get to insist others use, you being the cleverest and all.

So next time you want to battle on definitions, make sure the definition you use doesn’t prove the contrary of your position. “Sleep well.” Or, before you go to sleep, please keep trying to correct my ignorance — it is truly amusing.

Oh, wait. I see where you’re going, Angry “Thinker” (sic) — you’re as sexist as Kay. You judge people on the basis of sex, so it’s “fair” to hold women to higher standards because they’re women. As a person, I think you should try to be less sexist.

Your ignorance is astounding, deafening. And your hang-up about sex & female genitalia is probably due to your upbringing, confirmed by that ignorance. Poor man. Get some help & try to educate yourself a bit, it will do you a lot of good. And don’t pretend to be able to discuss with adults, you are not at that level.

If “discuss with adults” means “withstand ad hominem,” I think you’re profoundly mistaken. I am most certainly at a level where I can’t be bullied out of my comments by some retarded “adult.” How about this:

OED (“real dictionary”?) definition of sexism: “(in later use) prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex.”

Kay’s comment: “As a woman you should know better than that…”
Stereotype: Women aren’t/can’t be apologists for war crimes.
Basis of admonishing Kitty for diminishing the bombing and applying the stereotype: She’s a woman (in other words, the basis is “sex” or gender — I hope you’re continuing to reference the definition as we go.)

By definition, Kay’s comment is therefore sexist. If you disagree with that conclusion, feel free to point out the error in my reasoning — I love to learn. But if all you can muster is insults and accusations of being childish, you might want to stop embarrassing yourself. Just a suggestion. Best case scenario is you (i) admit you’re wrong and (ii) apologize for chastising someone for making a perfectly legitimate comment just because you don’t know what sexism is. That would be the “adult” thing to do. Having an “adult discussion” with someone who thinks that means saying “Look up the word and try again!” (twice, in your “eagerness and haste” to make a fool of yourself) is a bit tough. You also think “adult discussion” means questioning your adversary’s “upbringing” and their (imagined) “hangup” about “sex and female genitalia.” Do you even read my comments? We are talking about sexism not sex. I mentioned “genitalia” not “female genitalia” because, er, that’s how genders are distinguished. In “adult discussion,” it would be more of a rhetorical flourish than a “hangup,” especially if mentioned only once (do I need to look up “hangup” for you?) Telling someone to “get an education” also isn’t too helpful. I am a well-compensated professor with a Ph.D. in economics. Let me guess about you — you are unemployed and spend your time telling your betters about definitions you don’t know. Yet I’m the “poor man.” Hilarious — either take a long look in the proverbial mirror or continue living the sad, unexamined life you project onto others. But if you really enjoy trying and failing to hurt the feelings of internet commenters, by all means…continue. Someone has to be at the bottom of society, and it might as well be you.

I’ve said it many times in the past, the world cannot rely on “decent Americans” to stop the actions of the American government and its elite factions. “Decent Americans” are in the minority in America. Hyper-nationalists, my country right or wrong, love it or leave it types are the significant majority and always will be–that’s how effective the cradle to grave multi-institutional propaganda apparatus is in America (from education to sports and everything in between). America is not a democracy or representative republic in the way that the world’s people are propagandized to believe–plutocracy, oligarchy, inverted totalitarian state, corporatist/fascist nation, whatever combination of labels you prefer it is more accurate than to describe it as “democratic” or “representative”. It has the external trappings of those forms of government but the reality is far far different.

And the only longshot way to ever begin to address and dethrone those elite factions is to hit them precisely where they live and breath–in their pocketbooks. The world’s working classes need to refrain from buying American made goods and services, and demand changes in US foreign and economic policy, for so long as it takes to force America’s elites to change course. Because the American people are entirely too brainwashed and cling to their own myths about this nation too tightly to ever muster the will or the courage to change America from the inside.

And I’d do it through guilt rather than overt condemnation and hostility (because that just makes Americans dig in and dig deeper into their more blood-thirsty character traits). I’d have giant campaigns that say in effect, “America we love many of your ideals, spirit and successes, but we must insist that you change your ways otherwise we can no longer do business with you. We do not envy you, nor do we need you to police the world. We don’t need or want a unipolar world and until you respect the concept of self-determination, and the aspirations and the unique history and culture of all other nations, and to work collaboratively and not from a position of superiority in addressing the world’s problems, then we can no longer have anything to do with you or your economy.”

While I have some sympathy for this sentiment, you have penned a justification for US intervention in the affairs of other countries where some segment of the population wants their domestic world to be different than it is.

I have seen little evidence that the ROW (rest of the world) has much stomach to oppose US foreign policy. They seem to be either riding our coattails, or standing by in silence. Given current US military and economic advantages, and the desire of the elite to hang together, this circumstance is explicable.

Dani Rodrik penned the definitive. Using Greece as an example, you can take your pick of two: economic globalization, political democracy, and the nation-state . I have my own guess as to the preferences of the global elite. There is only one on the list that citizens of any country can deploy to change the circumstances in which they find themselves. Increasingly, it’s simply not available, to us, or anyone else.

As for MSF, I hope they continue to push and prevail, but I have the awful feeling that – like many of our social-cultural institutions – they are entitled to support only to the extent that they don’t interfere with the preferences of the global elite; and in this case specifically, the preferences of the US power structure.

No, RR, it’s up to us. Citizens of the US. And, our circumstance of an either unwilling, or unable, population to step up and confront this is our shame. For those of us who have a desire to change our foreign policy, we have, imo, two choices: confront this circumstance head-on, or wait for the US empire to exhaust its resources and fail.

I basically agree with you, that’s why I deemed it a “longshot” for the rest of the world to hold us accountable. I’ll keep trying to fight to change the US from the inside, but I have next to zero expectation or hope that that will work. At least not in my lifetime. I’ve also indicated in the past that I think the only other ends in sight to our foreign policy/economic orientation is one you’ve listed and one you haven’t–either US empire exhausts its resources and fails (or its financial system fails along with many others), or it is soundly defeated militarily in one of its many immoral foreign interventions in service of its “interests”.

I’ve always held out hope the world would rally to stop us peacefully because the prospect of the latter two happening is very sobering. An economically broken or military defeated America with somewhere between 4500 and 7500 nuclear weapons is a very dangerous and fragile beast to be left untethered from its moorings.

>>either US empire exhausts its resources and fails (or its financial system fails along with many others), or it is soundly defeated militarily in one of its many immoral foreign interventions in service of its “interests”.

Effectively, we’ve been systematically defeated since WWII. That hasn’t stopped us; hasn’t even slowed us down much. We perpetuate the myth that we won and we go home. I’m not sure what percentage of the population understands that we lost in Vietnam, what percentage thinks we lost, but could have won had we not pulled out, and what percentage actually thinks we won. And, that was how many years ago? We’re losing our institutional memory for the outcome of these adventures. And, now, with the current adventure (WOT) scheduled to continue past my likely sentience, who will remember? Who will be alive such that it wasn’t always this way?

Again, good points. For kids born in the last 20 years and everyone after, this is the “new normal”. The implications of that are sobering. But since I won’t be here, and presumably there will still be books and academics who care about these things, I guess it will be up to those generations of Americans to grapple with all of it.

Most academics have been depoliticized via pressure from the corporate university, the vicious labor market for PhDs, the demands of students (“customers”) and other stakeholders, and the assault on learning from the political and privileged classes. For every Edward Said there are 1,000 cowed scholars whose works avoid anything that will raise an eyebrow form their administrations.

I don’t believe this is true. Depending on your definition of “decent,” I think “Decent Americans” are in fact a vast majority. The problem is that “Decent Americans” are not in control of the political apparatus of this country.

I thought I was a decent American, but last month I was reading a Phil Giraldi column about some horrific foreign policy move (I would remember what it was if I was more decent) when I came across something like, “But most Americans will stop thinking about this quickly and instead worry about the start of Colbert on the late show and the beginning of football season.” And I quickly realized that I had already done that before I even got to that passage in the column. So Giraldi called me an asshole, and I had no choice but to immediately agree. I am a typical, indecent, American, I fear.

The primary existence of a soldier is to kill people. The primary Job of a General is to ensure as many people die as possible by giving Soldiers the best training and best methods to accomplish their goals. The only purpose of a government contract by a Defense Company is to sell as many bullets as possible and reap as much profit as legally allowed.

It’s impossible to wish for a different outcome, when the people and companies behind our Military have only one specific job description: To kill people.

And then we come to the truth why no investigation. The truth is America is great at killing people.

Basically, weren’t both Iraq wars “war crimes”? What good came of them except profits for the military industrial banking security establishment? 4000+ Americans dead, 25000+ Americans wounded or maimed, tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians killed, over $2 trillion printed out of thin air to fund everything. Is Iraq any better today?

If the US was transparent, they would say, “Yes, Please, Anyone investigate this. We need full transparency.” The fact that there is no US outcry is not new. The US citizens are flexible, no minded humans sometimes, as Glenn Greenwald fabulously hinted to in No Place to Hide: When GOP and Dems. changed their opinions on NSA practices based on who was in office! Most citizens are void of reason. This is a good scenario to find out if Dr. King’s people are ready…to reason why we need change.

Not only are Americans always all good guys with pure motives, everyone else is a bad guy, or at least so can be assumed to be until proven a US supporter under all circumstances. So, sure proceed ahead with those unnecessary investigations just to throw a bone to the “others”. However, the sham of an independent investigation would just be an attack on the US, nothing more. This is known ahead of time; it would do no good, and could do incalculable harm to even hint that an investigation by “others” could ever be fair to the US. So there. McCain did not do a very good job of pointing this out last night on CNN or this morning on NPR or any of those other three letter atrocities. We must realize that McCain is an old war hero, and sometimes he just does not get wide enough awake before going back to sleep to actually point out just how good the US is and how bad “others” are. I mean, he tries, but never mind; we know what he means, and his heart is in the right place.

The Military and Police investigate themselves, they answer to no one.
They invade all channels of communications.
Their budgets and funding are unknown and protected.
They say they are fighting evil terrorism and guess what – that entitles them to collect your email, initiate an airstrike anywhere, capture and store your face, lie on live television to a Senate Committee.
Don’t you see – Clapper is still on the job and Snowden is in exile.

Yup. “war is good for business” or
“when there’s blood on the streets buy property” or
“war is a racket” or
“beware the military industrial complex”… well fuck it, it’s all the same

…and the scary part is: there’s nothing anyone or any group can do about it.

We are a corporate fascist state; and, I think Benito is in charge? And, he has been for some time now. And, high ranking military officers also punish themselves; like, when Butler was ordered to publicly apologize to Benito. He refused and was court martialed.

The affair went something like this (according to an internet source):

“It was 1931, and Butler was giving a breakfast speech on “how to prevent war” to a gathering at the Philadelphia Contemporary Club. In the speech, he told about an unnamed journalist who had interviewed Mussolini while riding with him in a speeding Fiat touring car. When a peasant child dashed into the street, the car plowed right over him.

“My friend screamed,” Butler told his audience. “Mussolini put a hand on my friend’s knee. ‘It was only one life,’ he told my friend. ‘What is one life in the affairs of a State?’”

Benito? Do you have anything to say about the U.S. bombing of the hospital in Afghanistan?

“The anonymous journalist Butler cited riding with Mussolini turned out to be Cornelius Vanderbilt Jr., the magnate’s son who traveled the world as a journalist during a time when the US business class was keen on people like Mussolini.

The New York Times and Time magazine both supported Mussolini’s side of the story and editorialized that Butler and the US government owed him an apology. The New York Tribune wrote this: “The Fascisti movement is – in essentials – a reaction against degeneration through Socialistic internationalism. It is rough in its methods, but the aims which it professes are tonic.”

Colliers magazine published stories that emphasized the post-WWI chaos in Italy and Il Duce’s strong-man charms that “represented the triumph of law and order over anarchy and radicalism. …‘Normalcy’ was the catchword of the times, for Italy as well as for America.” [John Higgins, Mussolini and Fascism: The View From America.]

Vanderbilt insisted on remaining anonymous during the Butler episode in 1931, but in a 1943 book – after Mussolini became an official “bad guy” in the US capitalist pantheon – Vanderbilt ‘fessed-up and recounted the tale, supporting Butler’s story. What Mussolini actually said was apparently a bit different from the words Butler had put in his mouth. Here’s Vanderbilt’s version:

I heard a shriek and saw a group of children waving flags. I turned my head quickly. There was a shapeless little form lying in the road back of us.

“Look, Your Excellency,” I shouted.

“Never look back, my friend. Always forward,” he answered without turning his head, and we roared on into the night.”

So, you see Phil, history has continued (some would say repeats itself) to support actions like the one Glenn is writing about now – there are no wrong doings when it comes to matters of U.S. State. So, you see, it doesn’t matter if people wake up. And, it doesn’t matter if we elect a new better Obama.

Butler tried to stop these people; but, time was on their side. (que Rolling Stones song)

We can carry out extra-judicial killings but cannot have transparency and oversight because it would compromise “national security” – you just have to trust us, we’re good guys, and not like them over there.

We can carry out mass surveillance but we cannot have transparency and oversight because it would compromise “national security” – you just have to trust us, we’re good guys, and not like them over there.

We can bomb a hospital but we cannot have transparency and oversight because it would compromise “national security” – you just have to trust us, we’re good guys, and not like them over there.

The current story is that ‘mistakes were made’. If true, it may be worthwhile to examine those mistakes so they aren’t simply repeated in the future.

Mistake 1 – Insufficient Firepower
It appears that a number of witnesses survived, which means that the attack on the hospital can’t simply be blamed on the Taliban. This was definitely a mistake.

Mistake 2 – Changing the Narrative
The explanation given by the military changed so often that even experts such as the NYT found it difficult to massage the story to make it credible. It started with the hospital being targeted by mistake, to collateral damage from a strike aimed at a nearby target, to a strike on the hospital called in by the Afghan forces, to a strike on the hospital called in by US Special Operations Forces. Some would argue this wasn’t a mistake – rather the military was attempting to avoid blame by demonstrating it doesn’t know what it is doing. However, admitting it was called by SOF was a mistake, since the US military in Afghanistan is only authorized to use this degree of force if its own soldiers are under fire. So they will have to change the story again.

Mistake 3 – Being in Afghanistan
The US originally invaded Afghanistan to capture Bin Laden who was supposed to be hiding in a cave in Tora Bora. However, by the time Bin Laden was actually killed, the CIA had several nice little narcotics operations in Afghanistan and wished to prop up the local (cooperative) government. However, once the Taliban is in power, they’ll be equally cooperative (Afghanistan needs the revenue), so this is nothing but an unjustified fear of the unknown. That is a mistake – all humans are corruptible – so you should never become too attached to a particular group or individual.

While they’re at it, they might as well make mistake 6 and bomb those Air France workers who had the nerve to rip the shirts off of their CEOs then chased them over a fence when they announced layoffs:

They don’t really have to. If MSF can be bombed in Afghanistan, why not any other country in the Middle East that the U.S. is “not at war with”? Considered as an act of terrorism, this is highly effective – it creates a very serious threat to a well defined, small group of people whose response accomplishes the desired social goal, i.e. the formal reclassification of medicine as a munition of war, provided to one’s own side and forcibly denied to the other. It can be seen as an extension of “double tap”, really.