I love jazz. And I obviously love guitar. And I love learning and playing jazz on my guitar. But for some reason, I don't have the same enthusiasm for listening to most jazz guitarists. Wes Montgomery, Joe Pass, Jim Hall, Barney Kessel, Herb Ellis, George Benson, etc. are all mind-blowing, monster players, and I truly enjoy listening to them, but they never send chills down my spine like Charlie Parker, John Coltrane, and many of the great horn players do. It really bugs me that I'd rather hear something other than my favorite instrument soloing in my favorite style of music.

I have a few ideas. I look at some of my favorite jazz guitarists: Nels Cline, Al Di Meola, Django Reinhardt, John Scofield, Marc Ribot, Bill Frisell, Mike Stern. None of them have that traditional, clean, bass-heavy jazz guitar tone. I feel like that traditional tone just doesn't move me. Not sure what it is, maybe a lack of dynamic control. Seems like horn players frequently explore their dynamic range from whisper-quiet to piercing-loud, while the conventional jazz guitar sound is stuck with a limited range that makes every note sound like it's at the same volume.

I'm drawn to aggressive, intense music too. A background in rock and blues makes it harder to see where more subdued players are coming from. Where are the Zeppelins and Hendrixes and SRVs of the jazz world? I've discovered plenty, but they don't play guitar (except Nels Cline). The kind of player I love the most sounds like he's channeling the force of a hurricane through his instrument. I hear horn players like this all the time, but I guess I need to keep searching for lesser-known guitarists.

SRV was THE guitar hurricane!
even he knew it, just listen to the song!

"I like my pockets full of money.. my whiskey, gin and wine"

matt (15 Dec 2007 at 9:41pm)

I feel the same way. I love blues guitar and I love jazz, but there are no jazz guitar players that really move me. It is the horn players, and odd piano player for jazz.
I never really thought of Marc Ribot as a jazz player. I have kind of always put him in his own private musical category.

I think it takes a lot of experimentation with sound and tone for a guitarist to have the kind of power that a horn gives, in my view. And frankly, many get too comfortable in a certain place (both physically and commercially) and they say there.

While I am moved by the traditional straight-ahead jazz guitar sound, I can see your point. And, the players that I've seen who are trying to "channel the force of a hurricane" are the ones who do lots of homework on sound and tone and using tools creatively.

One of the reasons I like Warren Haynes a lot (Gov't Mule) is because he has a jazz mindset and when you listen to him on improvisations (live), he really is trying to cut through and get as dynamic as a horn player could. He does some incredible things with a flanger, for example, to add punch to many of his grooves and improvisations.

But then discussing "jazz" is difficult because everybody brings a different perspective of what "jazz" is. On the one hand, jazz is the traditional sound of straight-ahead jazz, and listeners prefer the mellow-sound of the guitar. It's subdued, but, to some, that's the beauty of it. Subdued, yet creative and beautifully sounding in its own world. I think of Jim Hall and listen to him and, while he's subdued, he has an incredible imagination on guitar.

On the other hand, jazz is improvisation period. And, I think of guys like Warren Haynes, who just treat music as improvisation and just focus on mining it for all it has.

I like this post, and as a jazz guitar player I get what you are saying. The emotional response each to player is different and needs to be. I've sat in the room and played with and listened one of the worlds greats, Ike Isaacs and I think the difference with the styles is about intimacy, a closeness. Many of the guitar players you have mentioned I don't like. But I lke some of them for different reasons. You must remember that Wes died some years back but his phrasing is gorgeous and his octave work is legendary. Jim Hall is a master of phrasing, making the complex simple, his tone is astounding, no it's not fiery but it is beautiful. Joe Pass is tremendous, his chordal solos are unmatchablem the Virtuoso album #1 is tremendous, and if you knew the tunes and listened to the way he approached the tunes from a different angle, it would make sense. No it's not hot, but the beauty of a woman is often not in the hotness, it can be in the angle of her face, or the movement of her body that takes you by surprise.

About ten years ago I was discussing the difference between the young players and the old and he said the difference is that the young players are hungry. About 30 years ago I was learning from a guy that was rated as Australia's top jazz guitarist and he said to me that he didn't mind if I went past him, because at that time I was interested in all the overtone modes and exotic scales that the contemporay jazz players were using.

A lot of our senses have been deadened by noise overload and it's easy to miss the nuances of music. If you want to hear something incredibly beautiful and outrageously sensitive get hold of a copy of an album by the Oud player anouar brahem from tunisia called les pas du chat noir, lock yourself in a dark room with it, turn the world off and you'll get a perspective of music that you may not have considered.

Dave (19 Dec 2007 at 2:15am)

In a way, I'm right with you. My all-time fave jazz album is A Love Supreme, and that is nothing but intense. I cannot point you to a jazz guitarist with that kind of intensity. I don't know if one exists.

I would suggest instead that the soul of jazz isn't intensity. Rather, it's cleverness. I've been watching the Jazz series again recently, and there's a bit where Sonny Rollins playing a gig late on the day before Easter, and when it turns to midnight, he plays "In my Easter bonnet, with all my frills upon it", then goes back to his solo. Each time I listen to Django, I smile more because I get more of the stuff he's doing. Marc Ribot is cool because (at least with the stuff I know) he plays the wrong note for the wrong duration, then plays another wrong note, not only in context of the first note but in context of the previous wrong note, and eventually it sounds like a cacophonous car-wreck, except it works. Ultimately, jazz is about being clever, while rock is about being powerful.

(Bright Size Life, which is Pat Metheny playing with Jaco Pastorius, might be something you'd get into. Jaco was a monster player, and the more I listen to Pat, the more I respect him.)

The only guitarist that receives more than a passing mention in the whole series, if I recall, is Django. And that's fitting. Listen to "Rock Around The Clock". The guitarist's a flashy player with a great break, while the sax player's not even following the changes. Then it was clear: if you wanna be the hot sax player, this isn't your world. Compare to the Count Basie band, where Freddie Green stayed in the pocket for 50 years without taking a lead.

You could just as easily say "I like rock, I like sax, but LeRoi Moore and Clarence Clemens just don't do anything for me." And they don't do anything for me.

Yes Dave, I think Metheny almost goes there but not in Bright Size Life. in the 70's McLaughlin and Coryell were on fire. If you want to hear something interesting dig up the Venusian Sunrise album by Lenny White, vinyl first track side two intersting duet between DiMeola and Corryell. This is not straight jazz guitar but many of the great modern jazz guys learnt straight jazz, they had to because in the theory of it is the skill they require. Abercrombie really bases a lot of his playing on Parker. McLaughlin studied with my friend Ike Isaacs, as did the guy who's top of the bunch Martin Taylor. And keep in mind Ike played in Grapelli's band at some point in place of Django after he'd died.
This music is not about fire, it's about someting else, and if you were capable of doing it PROPERLY you'd understand the shear beauty of straight jazz guitar. But even a lot of the famous guys sound terible to me, they just happened to make it famous. James Blood Ulmer is intense, but it's not straight jazz. I like Mick Goodricks approach, but a lot of players wouldn't, it's his thinking I like. Ed Bickert is the master, even Jim Hall would shake when he walked in, but it's about subtley not flash. You've got to keep in mind that you might be trying to find Chinese food in an Indian restaurant, and you may not find it. The in straight jazz guitar, the guitar's aren't on overdrive and screaming. Pat Martino when he did Joyous like was very good, but that's 30 years ago now, a masterpiece at the time.

And by the way I don't like Charlie Parkers music at all and I don't make apologies for that statemnent. Art Pepper did some good arrangements of his tunes. I had a long chat years ago with Ike Isaacs about it because I felt I was odd because I played jazz but couldn't stand the sound of it and was wondering whether something was wrong with me. He in summary said that what they really did was just turn their back on the audience and just blow and they said stuff the audience. And someone needed to do it for the advancement of music, but it sounds shocking to me. I prefer Sonny Rollins. Ike could play all that stuff, I never bothered but most jazz students thought they were cool if they played it. But what's good is that we all are different.

98% of jazz sounds like crap to me, but funnily enough I can play all that stuff. So much of it is elitist musicians trying to be clever, and that is not knocking the personalities, it's about the arrogance of intellectual musicians getting caught in the head, many of who are friends.

Wind instruments can modify their volume any time during the sounding of a note. Pianists and guitarists can not. As a pianist composing for orchestra I am realizing how limiting this can be for guitar and piano (also harp glockenshpiel and celesta).

Without sounding like one of those people that say ' I like the old stuff'...i like a lot of Bensons early playing on CTI, I particularly like White Rabbit

Phil (7 Feb 2008 at 12:06am)

You mentioning of the fact that guitarists couldn't alter their volume in the way that wind instrument players can made me wonder if a volume pedal could be used to gain a similar effect- it would allow you to cut the volume back to a whisper, have the volume swell etc...While I tend to steer clear of pedals (pretty much regardless of style, though admittedly I do derive unnatural enjoyment from twiddling with amp settings) I think I may have to investigate this further...

I love the sax players on Blue Note recordings (Hank Mobley, Joe Henderson, etc), but it seemed that the sound of an archtop never really did anything for me, I like my SRV too much!
BTW I find fusion guitarists often sound way too "noodly" to me - too cerebral and not enough swearing.

But I have found some archtop players I really enjoy - my personal favourites are...

Kenny Burrell - very bluesy and very soulful. Its a clean sound yet there is an intensity and commitment to the notes that shines through.

Alex Skolnick - to hear old 80's metal tunes reinterpreted in jazz style on an archtop is amazing. Throughly recommended!

That's a great way to put it. I think I need something that frightens people too. That's Nels Cline all the way. Pharoah Sanders comes to mind as well. I love moments when it sounds like it requires every bit of physical energy from the artist.

Manolo (27 May 2008 at 8:53am)

The best : Billy Bean

bradley (8 Jun 2008 at 11:07am)

i was trying to get into jazz and couldn't find any guitarists that killed me when i started checking out GRANT GREEN. im surprised no one mentioned him because as far using the guitar to sing and playing it like a horn there's no one better. he's very rooted in the blues so his playing is extremely powerful and vocal at the same time. he learned mostly from CHARLIE PARKER and other great horn players as opposed to other guitarists. his TONE is unmistakeable. it both relaxes and grabs attention.

his straight ahead stuff is wonderful and his playing is totally about feel, carrying themes, and groovin with ridiculous poly rhythms. there is some intellectual in his music but his creativity puts it to rest as perfectly pure and natural. he paints incredible lines with tension and release notes and knocks you out with with the intensity he can get from running with one, two, or three common tones. gotta get THE Complete Quartets with Sonny Clark and check out (specifically) It Ain't Necessarily So, The Song is You, What is this Thing Called Love, and My Favorite Things.

He plays with Coltrane's rhythm section which includes McCoy Tyner on Matador, and Joe Henderson joins them on Solid.

Since you like fusion though and powerful guitar his FUNK cd's Alive! and Live at the Lighthouse are UNBELIEVABLE. That's the stuff that knocked me out and made me get into his straight ahead stuff.

micha (3 Jan 2009 at 1:13pm)

Ok. Joe Pass, Herb Ellis... I don't like them too.. You really like Al Di Meola? If you like jazz guitar get into the music of Kurt Rosenwinkel. Thats not only modern but beautiful music with _great_ accompanists and good compostitions. Maybe try "The Next Step" for the beginning.

Shannon (20 Jan 2009 at 1:54pm)

I love jazz. I love guitar. I've often wondered why I don't like to listen to or play much jazz guitar. I do listen to some Wes Montgomery and others, liking the swing stuff you can dance to the best. Having said that and so you know what my limitations are on the subject, I seriously think the original poster is describing the very sentiment that led to Rock and Roll basically replacing jazz as the popular american music. Now notice I'm not offering a judgment here, just an observation on what seems to be a common phenomenon. If you want to feel the hurricane, you can - but from a guitar it's going to be another genre, at least as far as I can tell. People took to rock and roll in droves because they had never heard a guitar played like a hurricane, but by the mid sixties at the latest it was clear where the hurricane was forming. Of course let's leave room for that to change and some brilliant jazz guitarist to come along and change the face of everything. I want to be moved by Jazz guitar but it does often sound way too intellectual and sacrifices the immediacy of a less head heavy genre. Interested in others opinions though for sure...

One other observation, maybe there are too many defining characteristics in Jazz guitar to leave much room for growth? If someone played like a hurricane, would he be told "that's not jazz guitar"? The inner life of jazz, like any art movement, is subject to being stifled by it's own defining rules when they become rigid, yes? Maybe just need to break away from that clean, pure, but also rather commonplace "tone" we all know of. There is a general truth that might apply - if something is not growing or changing then it is dying...But that tone I understand is necessary due to the complexities, subtleties and nuances everyone wants in Jazz.

There is no subtlety to a hurricane. In a way you are asking for your chess game to feel like you are playing football, just go play football.

I love it all. When I was young and had everything to prove I liked loud, aggressive music that screamed "look at me, look what I can do." I still like that stuff, but I appreciate the less explicit approach of guys like Pass and Burell.

I don't expect Jazz to be like metal, or classical like reggae. They all reach different things in me and at the appropriate moment, for different reasons, they all make the hair stand on the back of my neck. It took some time, but it was worth it.

A G (16 May 2009 at 10:57pm)

I feel the same way. But try listening to Oscar Moore. His jazz-guitar playing is far from boring. And for horn playing, go way back to King Oliver for some great stuff.

I just love listening to Jazz music, I find the improv literally hypnotic! I just stated playing it also but now realise that you really need a semi acoustic guitar to get the right tone. Keep Jamming Joe!

I completely agree with you on this post. Music usually sounds better to the one playing it than the one listening.

I too have gravitated towards Jazz guitar but when I started listening to all the jazz guitarists, they all sound too busy to me. Its like single note jazz lines lack the soul of a blues line or a sax line.

Olorin (27 Jan 2011 at 3:46am)

It was the same for me. Then I discovered Kurt Rosenwinkel. He is The Jazz Guitar Player ! And some times later, i discovered Mike Moreno, Mikkel Ploug, Lage Lund, Jonathan Kreisberg... Listen to the new cats...

I dig Rosenwinkel and Kreisberg more than most. There's a lot of clarity and accuracy in their playing that I don't tend to hear from jazz guitarists. It's refreshing, but it's still not what I'm looking for. They don't hit me in the gut like the horns do or like blues/rock guitarists do. I'll check out those other guys, thanks for the recommendations.

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