At 8/8/2014 12:34:40 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:You who accuse Christians of damning you to Hell, you're pointing your finger at the wrong person.

It's CHRIST who condemns those who deny him to Hell.

Your problem is with CHRIST, not with Christians.

-

CHRIST said he came to this world to save sinners (Luke 5:32, Mark 2:17).

CHRIST said he's been appointed the Judge of all the world. (John 5:22, 2 Tim. 4:1, Rev. 20, 22)

CHRIST said he has power on earth to forgive sins (Matt. 9:6), and to give eternal life to whomever he will. (John 17:2)

CHRIST said "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18)-

Those are the words of CHRIST!So don't "kill the messenger"!

Your problem is with the Lord Jesus Christ!

And you WILL go to Hell if you do not know Christ.You MUST come to Christ and be saved.

God's Word says:"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

You: "It's CHRIST who condemns those who deny him to Hell."

You've told us that the main reason that folks, including those on here, deny Christ is that God hasn't seen fit to literally, actually, miraculous illuminate or enlighten them. If God would do that, then they'd "accept Christ" - and have no choice at all in the matter.

At 8/8/2014 12:34:40 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:You who accuse Christians of damning you to Hell, you're pointing your finger at the wrong person.

It's CHRIST who condemns those who deny him to Hell.

Your problem is with CHRIST, not with Christians.

-

CHRIST said he came to this world to save sinners (Luke 5:32, Mark 2:17).

CHRIST said he's been appointed the Judge of all the world. (John 5:22, 2 Tim. 4:1, Rev. 20, 22)

CHRIST said he has power on earth to forgive sins (Matt. 9:6), and to give eternal life to whomever he will. (John 17:2)

CHRIST said "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18)-

Those are the words of CHRIST!So don't "kill the messenger"!

Your problem is with the Lord Jesus Christ!

And you WILL go to Hell if you do not know Christ.You MUST come to Christ and be saved.

God's Word says:"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

You: "It's CHRIST who condemns those who deny him to Hell."

You've told us that the main reason that folks, including those on here, deny Christ is that God hasn't seen fit to literally, actually, miraculous illuminate or enlighten them. If God would do that, then they'd "accept Christ" - and have no choice at all in the matter.

So what would you suggest they do in the meantime?

People don't go to Hell because God didn't save them.They go to Hell because they're sinners.

Now, people do go to Heaven because God saves them.But God does not save everybody.

In other words,If you go to Hell, it's ALL YOUR FAULT.But if you go to Heaven, it's ALL of GOD'S GRACE.

If you don't understand that, it's because you are LOST.

And what should you do in the meantime?

LEARN WHO CHRIST IS.

Learn who he is, and what he has done. And what he is doing, and what he will yet do.

If you are one of his, he WILL deliver you from the darkness you are currently in.

I know you don't believe God is sovereign because you're an infidel, but I'm telling you, he is UTTERLY SOVEREIGN.

AND YET -- you are STILL the ONE RESPONSIBLE to BELIEVE on HIS SON, or you will perish in your sins and go to Hell.

Maybe you think that's a contradiction, but you are just dead wrong.

God is sovereign, and you're morally responsible.

LEARN WHO CHRIST IS, and if the LORD is PLEASED to SAVE YOU, there is NOTHING that can STOP you from being saved.

"For often evil men are rich, and good men poor;
But we will not exchange with them
Our virtue for their wealth, since one abides always,
While riches change their owners every day." - Solon, Plutarch's "Life of Solon"

At 8/8/2014 12:34:40 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:You who accuse Christians of damning you to Hell, you're pointing your finger at the wrong person.

It's CHRIST who condemns those who deny him to Hell.

Your problem is with CHRIST, not with Christians.

-

CHRIST said he came to this world to save sinners (Luke 5:32, Mark 2:17).

CHRIST said he's been appointed the Judge of all the world. (John 5:22, 2 Tim. 4:1, Rev. 20, 22)

CHRIST said he has power on earth to forgive sins (Matt. 9:6), and to give eternal life to whomever he will. (John 17:2)

CHRIST said "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18)-

Those are the words of CHRIST!So don't "kill the messenger"!

Your problem is with the Lord Jesus Christ!

And you WILL go to Hell if you do not know Christ.You MUST come to Christ and be saved.

God's Word says:"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

if we believed we were going to be damned for not believing something we would believe it. how hard is it to accept jesus as your lord and savior and repent? anyone who thought it was possible that this was true would go to heaven instead of spending eternity in fire. no one in their right mind would choose to do that. its not our faults we dont believe its the people who wrote the bible who are at fault for our disbelief. if i knew or read about a god who was worthy of worship id worship that god. the christian god lets rapists and people who enslave and torture people into heaven but throws good people who dont hurt anyone into fire to burn forever. that is not a good god worthy of worship. the christian god decided that the entire human race would have to suffer from evil just because the first two people ate the wrong apple. he is constantly targeting big groups of people for the sins of a few people like he did in the story of noah. he flooded the entire world killing every innocent child and animal for the sins of the wicked. a good all powerful god wouldnt do this. again its not my fault that i dont believe the bible. i litterally cant. and if anyone deserves hell its people like you who wish it upon other people for victimless "crimes".

At 8/8/2014 12:34:40 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:You who accuse Christians of damning you to Hell, you're pointing your finger at the wrong person.

It's CHRIST who condemns those who deny him to Hell.

Your problem is with CHRIST, not with Christians.

-

CHRIST said he came to this world to save sinners (Luke 5:32, Mark 2:17).

CHRIST said he's been appointed the Judge of all the world. (John 5:22, 2 Tim. 4:1, Rev. 20, 22)

CHRIST said he has power on earth to forgive sins (Matt. 9:6), and to give eternal life to whomever he will. (John 17:2)

CHRIST said "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18)-

Those are the words of CHRIST!So don't "kill the messenger"!

Your problem is with the Lord Jesus Christ!

And you WILL go to Hell if you do not know Christ.You MUST come to Christ and be saved.

God's Word says:"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

You: "It's CHRIST who condemns those who deny him to Hell."

You've told us that the main reason that folks, including those on here, deny Christ is that God hasn't seen fit to literally, actually, miraculous illuminate or enlighten them. If God would do that, then they'd "accept Christ" - and have no choice at all in the matter.

So what would you suggest they do in the meantime?

People don't go to Hell because God didn't save them.They go to Hell because they're sinners.

According to you, they go to hell for both reasons: (1) they are sinners, and (2) because God did not elect to miraculously enlighten them.

Now, people do go to Heaven because God saves them.But God does not save everybody.

No, according to you, he picks and chooses a few, here and there, while those few are yet in unbelief. Then He swoops in and miraculously "quickens" those few, while the rest are passed over.

In other words,If you go to Hell, it's ALL YOUR FAULT.But if you go to Heaven, it's ALL of GOD'S GRACE.

The same grace that has appeared unto all men?

If you don't understand that, it's because you are LOST.

Oh, I understand it. I simply do not believe it. I find it to be completely foreign to the teachings of the NT.

And what should you do in the meantime?

LEARN WHO CHRIST IS.

Learn who he is, and what he has done. And what he is doing, and what he will yet do.

Why? So I can take my knowledge right on to hell, unless God miraculously intervenes?

If you are one of his, he WILL deliver you from the darkness you are currently in.

'Tis you who is enveloped by darkness, a darkness springing forth from your nonsensical doctrines of total hereditary depravity.

I know you don't believe God is sovereign because you're an infidel, but I'm telling you, he is UTTERLY SOVEREIGN.

I believe that God is sovereign. He doesn't need you to come along and muddle up his scheme of redemption.

AND YET -- you are STILL the ONE RESPONSIBLE to BELIEVE on HIS SON, or you will perish in your sins and go to Hell.

LMAO. I'm "responsible", but I can't do it unless God miraculously illuminates me! That's funny. I can believe on Mohammed without any miraculous help. But to believe on Jesus Christ? You evidently think the doctrines of Christ are so ridiculous that nobody would believe them unless God steps and miraculously alters their thinking!

Maybe you think that's a contradiction, but you are just dead wrong.

Sure it's a contradiction - and here's something you'll never answer. You can't.

(1) I can ... anybody can ... accept that Mohammed is God's prophet and accept that the teachings of Mohammed are correct and divine without any divine intervention whatsoever.

(2) I can't ... nobody can ... accept that Jesus Christ is God's son and accept the teachings of Christ as correct and divine without direct, literal, actual miraculous intervention on the part of God.

Thus your doctrine is that the teachings of Mohammed are more believable than the teachings of Christ! You deny that the gospel is God's power unto salvation. You substitute "miraculous intervention." You deny that we are quickened and enlightened by the word. No, you think God miraculously, inexplicably just "draws" certain people while leaving the rest to fend for themselves. In fact, you minimize the word of God.

Explain for us why an ordinary unsaved person can believe in the teachings of Mohammed without miraculous activity on the part of God - but this same person cannot believe in Jesus Christ unless God performs some sort of miraculous brain surgery on him first.

At 8/8/2014 12:34:40 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:You who accuse Christians of damning you to Hell, you're pointing your finger at the wrong person.

It's CHRIST who condemns those who deny him to Hell.

Your problem is with CHRIST, not with Christians.

-

CHRIST said he came to this world to save sinners (Luke 5:32, Mark 2:17).

CHRIST said he's been appointed the Judge of all the world. (John 5:22, 2 Tim. 4:1, Rev. 20, 22)

CHRIST said he has power on earth to forgive sins (Matt. 9:6), and to give eternal life to whomever he will. (John 17:2)

CHRIST said "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18)-

Those are the words of CHRIST!So don't "kill the messenger"!

Your problem is with the Lord Jesus Christ!

And you WILL go to Hell if you do not know Christ.You MUST come to Christ and be saved.

God's Word says:"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

Except Jesus said nothing close to what you have twisted the meaning to be.

What he said, was those who do not adhere to the message of his teachings will go to hell.

If an individual lives in the light of Christ, but has no knowledge of Christ, they are still heaven bound in his eyes.

Those of you who claim he condemns others, wrongly, will burn in hellfire, according to the king of kings.

Matthew 7: 17-23 was brought up. Here are the verses:

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?' Then I will declare to them solemnly, 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.'"

It's not that I have a problem with Christ, or Christians necessarily. To be specific, I have a problem with the message. And when it's the message you have a problem with, then that means the person who gave the message and the people who repeat it are both up for scrutiny and ridicule.

At 8/8/2014 12:34:40 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:You who accuse Christians of damning you to Hell, you're pointing your finger at the wrong person.

It's CHRIST who condemns those who deny him to Hell.

Your problem is with CHRIST, not with Christians.

-

CHRIST said he came to this world to save sinners (Luke 5:32, Mark 2:17).

CHRIST said he's been appointed the Judge of all the world. (John 5:22, 2 Tim. 4:1, Rev. 20, 22)

CHRIST said he has power on earth to forgive sins (Matt. 9:6), and to give eternal life to whomever he will. (John 17:2)

CHRIST said "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18)-

Those are the words of CHRIST!So don't "kill the messenger"!

Your problem is with the Lord Jesus Christ!

And you WILL go to Hell if you do not know Christ.You MUST come to Christ and be saved.

God's Word says:"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

Actually, it's the men of the 4th century council who damned non-believers (and anyone else) to Hell. Had they not selected the writings they did and proclaim them to be "divine", then the Bible would contain different writings and different claims and still be declared to be "the word of God". After all, that's really all you have - just the word of a certain group of men from the 4th century, picking what they personally preferred, and proclaiming that since they like it, that makes it "God's word".

And as it turns out, none of the writings they selected came from Jesus, and none came from anyone who knew Jesus - assuming (and it's a huge ASSUMPTION), that Jesus is anything more than a myth to begin with.

At 8/8/2014 12:34:40 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:You who accuse Christians of damning you to Hell, you're pointing your finger at the wrong person.

It's CHRIST who condemns those who deny him to Hell.

Your problem is with CHRIST, not with Christians.

-

CHRIST said he came to this world to save sinners (Luke 5:32, Mark 2:17).

CHRIST said he's been appointed the Judge of all the world. (John 5:22, 2 Tim. 4:1, Rev. 20, 22)

CHRIST said he has power on earth to forgive sins (Matt. 9:6), and to give eternal life to whomever he will. (John 17:2)

CHRIST said "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18)-

Those are the words of CHRIST!So don't "kill the messenger"!

Your problem is with the Lord Jesus Christ!

And you WILL go to Hell if you do not know Christ.You MUST come to Christ and be saved.

God's Word says:"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

Actually, it's the men of the 4th century council who damned non-believers (and anyone else) to Hell. Had they not selected the writings they did and proclaim them to be "divine", then the Bible would contain different writings and different claims and still be declared to be "the word of God". After all, that's really all you have - just the word of a certain group of men from the 4th century, picking what they personally preferred, and proclaiming that since they like it, that makes it "God's word".

And as it turns out, none of the writings they selected came from Jesus, and none came from anyone who knew Jesus - assuming (and it's a huge ASSUMPTION), that Jesus is anything more than a myth to begin with.

As it turns out, the entire preceding sentence is just one huge ASSUMPTION comprised of a couple of smaller assumptions. You haven't got a clue as to whether the writers of three of the four gospels, Peter, James, Jude, etc. knew Jesus or not. It's simply convenient for you to assert that they didn't.

You simply join forces with skeptics, agnostics, atheists ... and, unfortunately, liberal destructive Christians, all of whom have a singular purpose: to undermine the credibility of the Bible. One point of attack is: attack the veracity of the authors. It's nothing new.

I repeat: it is VERY telling when the A #1 ... tippy-top ... numero uno ... reason - the one that outshines all the others - for assigning a late date to the books is not really based upon evidence at all. Certainly not. Any evidence for these late dates is merely a side-swipe. When a man says, "I'm gonna arbitrarily assign a late date to, for instance, the Book of Mark because I've already decided that Jesus couldn't have predicted the fall of the temple with such accuracy", well, you don't exactly have an unbiased dater of books, do you?

At 8/8/2014 12:34:40 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:You who accuse Christians of damning you to Hell, you're pointing your finger at the wrong person.

It's CHRIST who condemns those who deny him to Hell.

Your problem is with CHRIST, not with Christians.

-

CHRIST said he came to this world to save sinners (Luke 5:32, Mark 2:17).

CHRIST said he's been appointed the Judge of all the world. (John 5:22, 2 Tim. 4:1, Rev. 20, 22)

CHRIST said he has power on earth to forgive sins (Matt. 9:6), and to give eternal life to whomever he will. (John 17:2)

CHRIST said "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18)-

Those are the words of CHRIST!So don't "kill the messenger"!

Your problem is with the Lord Jesus Christ!

And you WILL go to Hell if you do not know Christ.You MUST come to Christ and be saved.

God's Word says:"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

Actually, it's the men of the 4th century council who damned non-believers (and anyone else) to Hell. Had they not selected the writings they did and proclaim them to be "divine", then the Bible would contain different writings and different claims and still be declared to be "the word of God". After all, that's really all you have - just the word of a certain group of men from the 4th century, picking what they personally preferred, and proclaiming that since they like it, that makes it "God's word".

And as it turns out, none of the writings they selected came from Jesus, and none came from anyone who knew Jesus - assuming (and it's a huge ASSUMPTION), that Jesus is anything more than a myth to begin with.

As it turns out, the entire preceding sentence is just one huge ASSUMPTION comprised of a couple of smaller assumptions. You haven't got a clue as to whether the writers of three of the four gospels, Peter, James, Jude, etc. knew Jesus or not. It's simply convenient for you to assert that they didn't.

This goes beyond simple ignorance because you've been shown the evidence time, and time, and time again. You simply refuse to accept it because you prefer the Christian bias. But the evidence for this is strong and as nearly conclusive as historical evidence (of that era) is likely ever to get. People here know you Anna, and that means you have no credibility because you ALWAYS fight well beyond what you can support. You NEVER admit to even a fraction of the actual credibility for the opposing view.

You simply join forces with skeptics, agnostics, atheists ... and, unfortunately, liberal destructive Christians, all of whom have a singular purpose: to undermine the credibility of the Bible. One point of attack is: attack the veracity of the authors. It's nothing new.

I'm not "joining forces" with anyone. I'm simply honest and objective about the evidence.

I repeat: it is VERY telling when the A #1 ... tippy-top ... numero uno ... reason - the one that outshines all the others - for assigning a late date to the books is not really based upon evidence at all. Certainly not. Any evidence for these late dates is merely a side-swipe. When a man says, "I'm gonna arbitrarily assign a late date to, for instance, the Book of Mark because I've already decided that Jesus couldn't have predicted the fall of the temple with such accuracy", well, you don't exactly have an unbiased dater of books, do you?

it's the very same reasoning which would be applied to ANY historical writing - or indeed - any writing of any time. Every other writing in history, if it deals with history, can be assigned to correlate with the historical accounts which it mentions. And the ONLY reason you object to that methodology in this case, is that it exposes the lie you wish were true.

At 8/8/2014 12:34:40 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:You who accuse Christians of damning you to Hell, you're pointing your finger at the wrong person.

It's CHRIST who condemns those who deny him to Hell.

Your problem is with CHRIST, not with Christians.

-

CHRIST said he came to this world to save sinners (Luke 5:32, Mark 2:17).

CHRIST said he's been appointed the Judge of all the world. (John 5:22, 2 Tim. 4:1, Rev. 20, 22)

CHRIST said he has power on earth to forgive sins (Matt. 9:6), and to give eternal life to whomever he will. (John 17:2)

CHRIST said "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18)-

Those are the words of CHRIST!So don't "kill the messenger"!

Your problem is with the Lord Jesus Christ!

And you WILL go to Hell if you do not know Christ.You MUST come to Christ and be saved.

God's Word says:"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

Actually, it's the men of the 4th century council who damned non-believers (and anyone else) to Hell. Had they not selected the writings they did and proclaim them to be "divine", then the Bible would contain different writings and different claims and still be declared to be "the word of God". After all, that's really all you have - just the word of a certain group of men from the 4th century, picking what they personally preferred, and proclaiming that since they like it, that makes it "God's word".

And as it turns out, none of the writings they selected came from Jesus, and none came from anyone who knew Jesus - assuming (and it's a huge ASSUMPTION), that Jesus is anything more than a myth to begin with.

As it turns out, the entire preceding sentence is just one huge ASSUMPTION comprised of a couple of smaller assumptions. You haven't got a clue as to whether the writers of three of the four gospels, Peter, James, Jude, etc. knew Jesus or not. It's simply convenient for you to assert that they didn't.

This goes beyond simple ignorance because you've been shown the evidence time, and time, and time again. You simply refuse to accept it because you prefer the Christian bias.

As you prefer the usual atheist/agnostic/skeptical bias. I do not deny that I am biased - nor do I deny that you are. It seems that you only bat 50-50 determining who is biased, however.

But the evidence for this is strong and as nearly conclusive as historical evidence (of that era) is likely ever to get. People here know you Anna, and that means you have no credibility because you ALWAYS fight well beyond what you can support. You NEVER admit to even a fraction of the actual credibility for the opposing view.

You simply join forces with skeptics, agnostics, atheists ... and, unfortunately, liberal destructive Christians, all of whom have a singular purpose: to undermine the credibility of the Bible. One point of attack is: attack the veracity of the authors. It's nothing new.

I'm not "joining forces" with anyone. I'm simply honest and objective about the evidence.

Remember that 50-50 you scored on the bias business. There's an example of it. Your "honest and objective", in your own eyes, but those who disagree are biased. That's novel - and very original.

I repeat: it is VERY telling when the A #1 ... tippy-top ... numero uno ... reason - the one that outshines all the others - for assigning a late date to the books is not really based upon evidence at all. Certainly not. Any evidence for these late dates is merely a side-swipe. When a man says, "I'm gonna arbitrarily assign a late date to, for instance, the Book of Mark because I've already decided that Jesus couldn't have predicted the fall of the temple with such accuracy", well, you don't exactly have an unbiased dater of books, do you?

it's the very same reasoning which would be applied to ANY historical writing - or indeed - any writing of any time. Every other writing in history, if it deals with history, can be assigned to correlate with the historical accounts which it mentions. And the ONLY reason you object to that methodology in this case, is that it exposes the lie you wish were true.

Let ask that question again, because I didn't notice the answer:

"When a man says, 'I'm gonna arbitrarily assign a late date to, for instance, the Book of Mark because I've already decided that Jesus couldn't have predicted the fall of the temple with such accuracy', well, you don't exactly have an unbiased dater of books, do you?"

At 8/8/2014 12:34:40 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:You who accuse Christians of damning you to Hell, you're pointing your finger at the wrong person.

It's CHRIST who condemns those who deny him to Hell.

Your problem is with CHRIST, not with Christians.

-

CHRIST said he came to this world to save sinners (Luke 5:32, Mark 2:17).

CHRIST said he's been appointed the Judge of all the world. (John 5:22, 2 Tim. 4:1, Rev. 20, 22)

CHRIST said he has power on earth to forgive sins (Matt. 9:6), and to give eternal life to whomever he will. (John 17:2)

CHRIST said "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18)-

Those are the words of CHRIST!So don't "kill the messenger"!

Your problem is with the Lord Jesus Christ!

And you WILL go to Hell if you do not know Christ.You MUST come to Christ and be saved.

God's Word says:"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

Christ is the invisible Word of God that Jesus and all us saints speak to God's believers. Most Christians are sinners who have no clue who Christ or God is. They read words in a book thinking that they are the Word of God.

At 8/8/2014 12:34:40 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:You who accuse Christians of damning you to Hell, you're pointing your finger at the wrong person.

It's CHRIST who condemns those who deny him to Hell.

Your problem is with CHRIST, not with Christians.

-

CHRIST said he came to this world to save sinners (Luke 5:32, Mark 2:17).

CHRIST said he's been appointed the Judge of all the world. (John 5:22, 2 Tim. 4:1, Rev. 20, 22)

CHRIST said he has power on earth to forgive sins (Matt. 9:6), and to give eternal life to whomever he will. (John 17:2)

CHRIST said "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18)-

Those are the words of CHRIST!So don't "kill the messenger"!

Your problem is with the Lord Jesus Christ!

And you WILL go to Hell if you do not know Christ.You MUST come to Christ and be saved.

God's Word says:"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

Ach so! Ach so! Any God who would condemn a good man to hell for not believing in him is not worth my time. If I was a God, I'd take special pleasure in punishing those who used my name to damn others.

At 8/8/2014 12:34:40 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:You who accuse Christians of damning you to Hell, you're pointing your finger at the wrong person.

It's CHRIST who condemns those who deny him to Hell.

Your problem is with CHRIST, not with Christians.

-

CHRIST said he came to this world to save sinners (Luke 5:32, Mark 2:17).

CHRIST said he's been appointed the Judge of all the world. (John 5:22, 2 Tim. 4:1, Rev. 20, 22)

CHRIST said he has power on earth to forgive sins (Matt. 9:6), and to give eternal life to whomever he will. (John 17:2)

CHRIST said "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18)-

Those are the words of CHRIST!So don't "kill the messenger"!

Your problem is with the Lord Jesus Christ!

And you WILL go to Hell if you do not know Christ.You MUST come to Christ and be saved.

God's Word says:"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

You: "It's CHRIST who condemns those who deny him to Hell."

You've told us that the main reason that folks, including those on here, deny Christ is that God hasn't seen fit to literally, actually, miraculous illuminate or enlighten them. If God would do that, then they'd "accept Christ" - and have no choice at all in the matter.

So what would you suggest they do in the meantime?

People don't go to Hell because God didn't save them.They go to Hell because they're sinners.

Now, people do go to Heaven because God saves them.But God does not save everybody.

In other words,If you go to Hell, it's ALL YOUR FAULT.But if you go to Heaven, it's ALL of GOD'S GRACE.

If you don't understand that, it's because you are LOST.

And what should you do in the meantime?

LEARN WHO CHRIST IS.

Learn who he is, and what he has done. And what he is doing, and what he will yet do.

If you are one of his, he WILL deliver you from the darkness you are currently in.

I know you don't believe God is sovereign because you're an infidel, but I'm telling you, he is UTTERLY SOVEREIGN.

AND YET -- you are STILL the ONE RESPONSIBLE to BELIEVE on HIS SON, or you will perish in your sins and go to Hell.

Maybe you think that's a contradiction, but you are just dead wrong.

God is sovereign, and you're morally responsible.

LEARN WHO CHRIST IS, and if the LORD is PLEASED to SAVE YOU, there is NOTHING that can STOP you from being saved.

God planned to save ALL His people, not just religious heathens who have no idea who our Creator is.

Titus 2:1111: For the grace of God has appeared for the salvation of all men,

John 12: 4747: If any one hears my sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.

I Timothy 4:1010: For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.

Isaiah 4522: "Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.23: By myself I have sworn, from my mouth has gone forth in righteousness a word that shall not return: `To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.'24: "Only in the LORD, it shall be said of me, are righteousness and strength; to him shall come and be ashamed, all who were incensed against him.

25: In the LORD all the offspring of Israel shall triumph and glory."

God's offspring is His invisible created people called Jacob. Israel is the visible people formed in the flesh.

Isaiah 431: But now thus says the LORD, he who created you, O Jacob, he who formed you, O Israel: "Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are mine.2: When you pass through the waters I will be with you; and through the rivers, they shall not overwhelm you; when you walk through fire you shall not be burned, and the flame shall not consume you.3: For I am the LORD your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior. I give Egypt as your ransom, Ethiopia and Seba in exchange for you.

Our invisible God is the Savior of ALL His people ( Israel and Jacob, or Judah ).

Psalms 22:27: All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn to the LORD; and all the families of the nations shall worship before him.

Isaiah 557: let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the LORD, that he may have mercy on him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Acts 1731: because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and of this he has given assurance to all men by raising him from the dead."

Genesis 2218: and by your descendants shall all the nations of the earth bless themselves, because you have obeyed my voice."

John 1232: and I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself."

Psalm 31:23: Love the LORD, all you his saints! The LORD preserves the faithful, but abundantly requites him who acts haughtily.

Isaiah 6623: From new moon to new moon, and from sabbath to sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before me, says the LORD.

Ezekiel 3712: Therefore prophesy, and say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will open your graves, and raise you from your graves, O my people; and I will bring you home into the land of Israel.13: And you shall know that I am the LORD, when I open your graves, and raise you from your graves, O my people.

Ezekiel 3925: "Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: Now I will restore the fortunes of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel; and I will be jealous for my holy name.

Jeremiah 317: At that time Jerusalem shall be called the throne of the LORD, and all nations shall gather to it, to the presence of the LORD in Jerusalem, and they shall no more stubbornly follow their own evil heart.

Jeremiah 3133: But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.34: And no longer shall each man teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, `Know the LORD,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, says the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

Micah 719: He will again have compassion upon us, he will tread our iniquities under foot. Thou wilt cast all our sins into the depths of the sea.

At 8/8/2014 12:34:40 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:You who accuse Christians of damning you to Hell, you're pointing your finger at the wrong person.

It's CHRIST who condemns those who deny him to Hell.

Your problem is with CHRIST, not with Christians.

-

CHRIST said he came to this world to save sinners (Luke 5:32, Mark 2:17).

CHRIST said he's been appointed the Judge of all the world. (John 5:22, 2 Tim. 4:1, Rev. 20, 22)

CHRIST said he has power on earth to forgive sins (Matt. 9:6), and to give eternal life to whomever he will. (John 17:2)

CHRIST said "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18)-

Those are the words of CHRIST!So don't "kill the messenger"!

Your problem is with the Lord Jesus Christ!

And you WILL go to Hell if you do not know Christ.You MUST come to Christ and be saved.

God's Word says:"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

Ach so! Ach so! Any God who would condemn a good man to hell for not believing in him is not worth my time. If I was a God, I'd take special pleasure in punishing those who used my name to damn others.

Yeah, well CHRIST is the one doing the damning, so you're going to have to come to HIM for mercy, or yes, you will be damned. That's a promise.

You can blame other people all you want, and make all the excuses you want, but CHRIST HIMSELF is the one you'll have to answer to.

At 8/8/2014 12:34:40 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:You who accuse Christians of damning you to Hell, you're pointing your finger at the wrong person.

It's CHRIST who condemns those who deny him to Hell.

Your problem is with CHRIST, not with Christians.

-

CHRIST said he came to this world to save sinners (Luke 5:32, Mark 2:17).

CHRIST said he's been appointed the Judge of all the world. (John 5:22, 2 Tim. 4:1, Rev. 20, 22)

CHRIST said he has power on earth to forgive sins (Matt. 9:6), and to give eternal life to whomever he will. (John 17:2)

CHRIST said "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18)-

Those are the words of CHRIST!So don't "kill the messenger"!

Your problem is with the Lord Jesus Christ!

And you WILL go to Hell if you do not know Christ.You MUST come to Christ and be saved.

God's Word says:"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

Ach so! Ach so! Any God who would condemn a good man to hell for not believing in him is not worth my time. If I was a God, I'd take special pleasure in punishing those who used my name to damn others.

Yeah, well CHRIST is the one doing the damning, so you're going to have to come to HIM for mercy, or yes, you will be damned. That's a promise.

According to you, they can't come! If God would only "quicken" them, or "enlighten" them, or perform some sort of miraculous brain/heart surgery on them .... then they might. 'Tis a little cruel to say, "Come, come, come, come", knowing full well that they can't.

That's what the false doctrine of total hereditary depravity will do for ya. It'll result in more contradictions than Carter has liver pills.

At 8/8/2014 12:34:40 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:You who accuse Christians of damning you to Hell, you're pointing your finger at the wrong person.

It's CHRIST who condemns those who deny him to Hell.

Your problem is with CHRIST, not with Christians.

-

CHRIST said he came to this world to save sinners (Luke 5:32, Mark 2:17).

CHRIST said he's been appointed the Judge of all the world. (John 5:22, 2 Tim. 4:1, Rev. 20, 22)

CHRIST said he has power on earth to forgive sins (Matt. 9:6), and to give eternal life to whomever he will. (John 17:2)

CHRIST said "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18)-

Those are the words of CHRIST!So don't "kill the messenger"!

Your problem is with the Lord Jesus Christ!

And you WILL go to Hell if you do not know Christ.You MUST come to Christ and be saved.

God's Word says:"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

Ach so! Ach so! Any God who would condemn a good man to hell for not believing in him is not worth my time. If I was a God, I'd take special pleasure in punishing those who used my name to damn others.

Yeah, well CHRIST is the one doing the damning, so you're going to have to come to HIM for mercy, or yes, you will be damned. That's a promise.

According to you, they can't come! If God would only "quicken" them, or "enlighten" them, or perform some sort of miraculous brain/heart surgery on them .... then they might. 'Tis a little cruel to say, "Come, come, come, come", knowing full well that they can't.

That's what the false doctrine of total hereditary depravity will do for ya. It'll result in more contradictions than Carter has liver pills.

Well, somehow YOU came to Christ because you were just wiser and more spiritual than the rest of us sinful fools, right?

Must be nice to be able to boast before God.

But the rest of us need a miracle of grace to be saved, or else we will all go to Hell.

At 8/8/2014 12:34:40 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:You who accuse Christians of damning you to Hell, you're pointing your finger at the wrong person.

It's CHRIST who condemns those who deny him to Hell.

Your problem is with CHRIST, not with Christians.

-

CHRIST said he came to this world to save sinners (Luke 5:32, Mark 2:17).

CHRIST said he's been appointed the Judge of all the world. (John 5:22, 2 Tim. 4:1, Rev. 20, 22)

CHRIST said he has power on earth to forgive sins (Matt. 9:6), and to give eternal life to whomever he will. (John 17:2)

CHRIST said "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18)-

Those are the words of CHRIST!So don't "kill the messenger"!

Your problem is with the Lord Jesus Christ!

And you WILL go to Hell if you do not know Christ.You MUST come to Christ and be saved.

God's Word says:"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

Ach so! Ach so! Any God who would condemn a good man to hell for not believing in him is not worth my time. If I was a God, I'd take special pleasure in punishing those who used my name to damn others.

Yeah, well CHRIST is the one doing the damning, so you're going to have to come to HIM for mercy, or yes, you will be damned. That's a promise.

According to you, they can't come! If God would only "quicken" them, or "enlighten" them, or perform some sort of miraculous brain/heart surgery on them .... then they might. 'Tis a little cruel to say, "Come, come, come, come", knowing full well that they can't.

That's what the false doctrine of total hereditary depravity will do for ya. It'll result in more contradictions than Carter has liver pills.

Well, somehow YOU came to Christ because you were just wiser and more spiritual than the rest of us sinful fools, right?

Must be nice to be able to boast before God.

But the rest of us need a miracle of grace to be saved, or else we will all go to Hell.

I've nothing of which to boast. I came to Christ due to the evidence presented in His word. You see, the gospel - not miraculous, better-felt-than-explained "illuminations" - is God's power unto salvation. The word of God is not dead as you think it is.

By the way, you never did explain the difference between three former atheists: one became a Jew, one became Islamic, and one became a Christian. They all three studied the evidence. YOU teach that the evidence in favor of Christianity is so weak, or so ridiculous, that God must add a miracle to the mix - or else nobody would believe it. Why is this not true of any other religions? Are you claiming that Islam or Judaism just makes more sense than Christianity?

At 8/8/2014 12:34:40 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:You who accuse Christians of damning you to Hell, you're pointing your finger at the wrong person.

It's CHRIST who condemns those who deny him to Hell.

Your problem is with CHRIST, not with Christians.

-

CHRIST said he came to this world to save sinners (Luke 5:32, Mark 2:17).

CHRIST said he's been appointed the Judge of all the world. (John 5:22, 2 Tim. 4:1, Rev. 20, 22)

CHRIST said he has power on earth to forgive sins (Matt. 9:6), and to give eternal life to whomever he will. (John 17:2)

CHRIST said "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18)-

Those are the words of CHRIST!So don't "kill the messenger"!

Your problem is with the Lord Jesus Christ!

And you WILL go to Hell if you do not know Christ.You MUST come to Christ and be saved.

God's Word says:"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

Ach so! Ach so! Any God who would condemn a good man to hell for not believing in him is not worth my time. If I was a God, I'd take special pleasure in punishing those who used my name to damn others.

Yeah, well CHRIST is the one doing the damning, so you're going to have to come to HIM for mercy, or yes, you will be damned. That's a promise.

According to you, they can't come! If God would only "quicken" them, or "enlighten" them, or perform some sort of miraculous brain/heart surgery on them .... then they might. 'Tis a little cruel to say, "Come, come, come, come", knowing full well that they can't.

That's what the false doctrine of total hereditary depravity will do for ya. It'll result in more contradictions than Carter has liver pills.

Well, somehow YOU came to Christ because you were just wiser and more spiritual than the rest of us sinful fools, right?

Must be nice to be able to boast before God.

But the rest of us need a miracle of grace to be saved, or else we will all go to Hell.

I've nothing of which to boast. I came to Christ due to the evidence presented in His word.

You don't have his word.

You see, the gospel - not miraculous, better-felt-than-explained "illuminations" - is God's power unto salvation.

It's also largely fiction.

The word of God is not dead as you think it is.

There is no "word of God". You have the words of men, as selected by other men. God simply isn't involved... at all.

At 8/8/2014 12:34:40 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:You who accuse Christians of damning you to Hell, you're pointing your finger at the wrong person.

It's CHRIST who condemns those who deny him to Hell.

Your problem is with CHRIST, not with Christians.

-

CHRIST said he came to this world to save sinners (Luke 5:32, Mark 2:17).

CHRIST said he's been appointed the Judge of all the world. (John 5:22, 2 Tim. 4:1, Rev. 20, 22)

CHRIST said he has power on earth to forgive sins (Matt. 9:6), and to give eternal life to whomever he will. (John 17:2)

CHRIST said "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18)-

Those are the words of CHRIST!So don't "kill the messenger"!

Your problem is with the Lord Jesus Christ!

And you WILL go to Hell if you do not know Christ.You MUST come to Christ and be saved.

God's Word says:"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

Ach so! Ach so! Any God who would condemn a good man to hell for not believing in him is not worth my time. If I was a God, I'd take special pleasure in punishing those who used my name to damn others.

Yeah, well CHRIST is the one doing the damning, so you're going to have to come to HIM for mercy, or yes, you will be damned. That's a promise.

According to you, they can't come! If God would only "quicken" them, or "enlighten" them, or perform some sort of miraculous brain/heart surgery on them .... then they might. 'Tis a little cruel to say, "Come, come, come, come", knowing full well that they can't.

That's what the false doctrine of total hereditary depravity will do for ya. It'll result in more contradictions than Carter has liver pills.

Well, somehow YOU came to Christ because you were just wiser and more spiritual than the rest of us sinful fools, right?

Must be nice to be able to boast before God.

But the rest of us need a miracle of grace to be saved, or else we will all go to Hell.

I've nothing of which to boast. I came to Christ due to the evidence presented in His word.

You don't have his word.

You see, the gospel - not miraculous, better-felt-than-explained "illuminations" - is God's power unto salvation.

It's also largely fiction.

The word of God is not dead as you think it is.

There is no "word of God". You have the words of men, as selected by other men. God simply isn't involved... at all.

At 8/8/2014 12:34:40 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:You who accuse Christians of damning you to Hell, you're pointing your finger at the wrong person.

It's CHRIST who condemns those who deny him to Hell.

Your problem is with CHRIST, not with Christians.

-

CHRIST said he came to this world to save sinners (Luke 5:32, Mark 2:17).

CHRIST said he's been appointed the Judge of all the world. (John 5:22, 2 Tim. 4:1, Rev. 20, 22)

CHRIST said he has power on earth to forgive sins (Matt. 9:6), and to give eternal life to whomever he will. (John 17:2)

CHRIST said "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18)-

Those are the words of CHRIST!So don't "kill the messenger"!

Your problem is with the Lord Jesus Christ!

And you WILL go to Hell if you do not know Christ.You MUST come to Christ and be saved.

God's Word says:"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

Not really. Christian governments support Christianity. So conservative Christians are to blame. Christianity would not even exist without political support. How can I blame Jesus. He did not even exist. Christianity was created by the Roman empire. So that empire should also be blamed.

Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

At 8/8/2014 12:34:40 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:You who accuse Christians of damning you to Hell, you're pointing your finger at the wrong person.

It's CHRIST who condemns those who deny him to Hell.

Your problem is with CHRIST, not with Christians.

-

CHRIST said he came to this world to save sinners (Luke 5:32, Mark 2:17).

CHRIST said he's been appointed the Judge of all the world. (John 5:22, 2 Tim. 4:1, Rev. 20, 22)

CHRIST said he has power on earth to forgive sins (Matt. 9:6), and to give eternal life to whomever he will. (John 17:2)

CHRIST said "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18)-

Those are the words of CHRIST!So don't "kill the messenger"!

Your problem is with the Lord Jesus Christ!

And you WILL go to Hell if you do not know Christ.You MUST come to Christ and be saved.

God's Word says:"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

"He that chooses a religion over Islam, it will not be accepted from him and in the world to come he will be one of the lost." Quran 3:85

You are Lost, Sovereign!!

"Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate." Quran 9:73

Bad news, Sovereign, you're going to Hell. I was compelled to share the message of almighty Allah given to us by his prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Don't shoot the messenger, though, your problem is with Allah.

Since I don't think you give any authority to the Quran, maybe you can begin to understand how ridiculous your version of preaching is to non believers. You have severely over-valued your message and your tactics are repellant to non believers.

Science has taught us that, because we have a talent for deceiving ourselves, subjectivity may not freely reign. - Carl Sagan

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell

At 8/8/2014 12:34:40 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:You who accuse Christians of damning you to Hell, you're pointing your finger at the wrong person.

It's CHRIST who condemns those who deny him to Hell.

Your problem is with CHRIST, not with Christians.

-

CHRIST said he came to this world to save sinners (Luke 5:32, Mark 2:17).

CHRIST said he's been appointed the Judge of all the world. (John 5:22, 2 Tim. 4:1, Rev. 20, 22)

CHRIST said he has power on earth to forgive sins (Matt. 9:6), and to give eternal life to whomever he will. (John 17:2)

CHRIST said "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18)-

Those are the words of CHRIST!So don't "kill the messenger"!

Your problem is with the Lord Jesus Christ!

And you WILL go to Hell if you do not know Christ.You MUST come to Christ and be saved.

God's Word says:"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

Ach so! Ach so! Any God who would condemn a good man to hell for not believing in him is not worth my time. If I was a God, I'd take special pleasure in punishing those who used my name to damn others.

Yeah, well CHRIST is the one doing the damning, so you're going to have to come to HIM for mercy, or yes, you will be damned. That's a promise.

According to you, they can't come! If God would only "quicken" them, or "enlighten" them, or perform some sort of miraculous brain/heart surgery on them .... then they might. 'Tis a little cruel to say, "Come, come, come, come", knowing full well that they can't.

That's what the false doctrine of total hereditary depravity will do for ya. It'll result in more contradictions than Carter has liver pills.

Well, somehow YOU came to Christ because you were just wiser and more spiritual than the rest of us sinful fools, right?

Must be nice to be able to boast before God.

But the rest of us need a miracle of grace to be saved, or else we will all go to Hell.

I've nothing of which to boast. I came to Christ due to the evidence presented in His word.

You don't have his word.

You see, the gospel - not miraculous, better-felt-than-explained "illuminations" - is God's power unto salvation.

It's also largely fiction.

The word of God is not dead as you think it is.

There is no "word of God". You have the words of men, as selected by other men. God simply isn't involved... at all.

Lemme guess. "So-and-so told you".

You don't have to "guess". You already know I'm right. What books of the Bible did God write? What manuscripts did God select for inclusion in the Bible?

The answer in both cases, is "none". What did God ever say in regard to the books selected? Nothing.

Don't pretend. You know I'm right. If a council of former Boy Scout Den-Mothers selected the writings of a few dozen boy scouts, and claimed them to be "divine", would that make it "God's word"?

A bunch of superstitious idiots sitting around in a room arguing about what writings are divine and which aren't (for more than 4 decades), and then finally declaring what they chose to be "God's word", doesn't make it God's word. It makes it the writings they decided they liked best. And that's all you have - the preferred writings of the council - none of which were written by, or selected, by God.

At 8/8/2014 12:34:40 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:You who accuse Christians of damning you to Hell, you're pointing your finger at the wrong person.

It's CHRIST who condemns those who deny him to Hell.

Your problem is with CHRIST, not with Christians.

-

CHRIST said he came to this world to save sinners (Luke 5:32, Mark 2:17).

CHRIST said he's been appointed the Judge of all the world. (John 5:22, 2 Tim. 4:1, Rev. 20, 22)

CHRIST said he has power on earth to forgive sins (Matt. 9:6), and to give eternal life to whomever he will. (John 17:2)

CHRIST said "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18)-

Those are the words of CHRIST!So don't "kill the messenger"!

Your problem is with the Lord Jesus Christ!

And you WILL go to Hell if you do not know Christ.You MUST come to Christ and be saved.

God's Word says:"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

Ach so! Ach so! Any God who would condemn a good man to hell for not believing in him is not worth my time. If I was a God, I'd take special pleasure in punishing those who used my name to damn others.

Yeah, well CHRIST is the one doing the damning, so you're going to have to come to HIM for mercy, or yes, you will be damned. That's a promise.

According to you, they can't come! If God would only "quicken" them, or "enlighten" them, or perform some sort of miraculous brain/heart surgery on them .... then they might. 'Tis a little cruel to say, "Come, come, come, come", knowing full well that they can't.

That's what the false doctrine of total hereditary depravity will do for ya. It'll result in more contradictions than Carter has liver pills.

Well, somehow YOU came to Christ because you were just wiser and more spiritual than the rest of us sinful fools, right?

Must be nice to be able to boast before God.

But the rest of us need a miracle of grace to be saved, or else we will all go to Hell.

I've nothing of which to boast. I came to Christ due to the evidence presented in His word.

You don't have his word.

You see, the gospel - not miraculous, better-felt-than-explained "illuminations" - is God's power unto salvation.

It's also largely fiction.

The word of God is not dead as you think it is.

There is no "word of God". You have the words of men, as selected by other men. God simply isn't involved... at all.

Lemme guess. "So-and-so told you".

You don't have to "guess". You already know I'm right. What books of the Bible did God write?

Has someone advanced the claim that God literally penned a book?

What manuscripts did God select for inclusion in the Bible?

You are hung up on the word "Bible".

The answer in both cases, is "none". What did God ever say in regard to the books selected? Nothing.

A bunch of superstitious idiots sitting around in a room arguing about what writings are divine and which aren't (for more than 4 decades), and then finally declaring what they chose to be "God's word", doesn't make it God's word. It makes it the writings they decided they liked best.

At 8/8/2014 12:34:40 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:You who accuse Christians of damning you to Hell, you're pointing your finger at the wrong person.

It's CHRIST who condemns those who deny him to Hell.

Your problem is with CHRIST, not with Christians.

-

CHRIST said he came to this world to save sinners (Luke 5:32, Mark 2:17).

CHRIST said he's been appointed the Judge of all the world. (John 5:22, 2 Tim. 4:1, Rev. 20, 22)

CHRIST said he has power on earth to forgive sins (Matt. 9:6), and to give eternal life to whomever he will. (John 17:2)

CHRIST said "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18)-

Those are the words of CHRIST!So don't "kill the messenger"!

Your problem is with the Lord Jesus Christ!

And you WILL go to Hell if you do not know Christ.You MUST come to Christ and be saved.

God's Word says:"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

Ach so! Ach so! Any God who would condemn a good man to hell for not believing in him is not worth my time. If I was a God, I'd take special pleasure in punishing those who used my name to damn others.

Yeah, well CHRIST is the one doing the damning, so you're going to have to come to HIM for mercy, or yes, you will be damned. That's a promise.

According to you, they can't come! If God would only "quicken" them, or "enlighten" them, or perform some sort of miraculous brain/heart surgery on them .... then they might. 'Tis a little cruel to say, "Come, come, come, come", knowing full well that they can't.

That's what the false doctrine of total hereditary depravity will do for ya. It'll result in more contradictions than Carter has liver pills.

Well, somehow YOU came to Christ because you were just wiser and more spiritual than the rest of us sinful fools, right?

Must be nice to be able to boast before God.

But the rest of us need a miracle of grace to be saved, or else we will all go to Hell.

I've nothing of which to boast. I came to Christ due to the evidence presented in His word.

You don't have his word.

You see, the gospel - not miraculous, better-felt-than-explained "illuminations" - is God's power unto salvation.

It's also largely fiction.

The word of God is not dead as you think it is.

There is no "word of God". You have the words of men, as selected by other men. God simply isn't involved... at all.

Lemme guess. "So-and-so told you".

You don't have to "guess". You already know I'm right. What books of the Bible did God write? What manuscripts did God select for inclusion in the Bible?

The answer in both cases, is "none". What did God ever say in regard to the books selected? Nothing.

Don't pretend. You know I'm right. If a council of former Boy Scout Den-Mothers selected the writings of a few dozen boy scouts, and claimed them to be "divine", would that make it "God's word"?

A bunch of superstitious idiots sitting around in a room arguing about what writings are divine and which aren't (for more than 4 decades), and then finally declaring what they chose to be "God's word", doesn't make it God's word. It makes it the writings they decided they liked best. And that's all you have - the preferred writings of the council - none of which were written by, or selected, by God.

The new Testament should not be thought of as the inspired word of god. Many Christians point to 2 Timothy 3:16-17, but this verse was meant to refer to the established canon of the OT. The NT was not even thought of when this verse was put to paper.

Science has taught us that, because we have a talent for deceiving ourselves, subjectivity may not freely reign. - Carl Sagan

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell

At 8/8/2014 12:34:40 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:You who accuse Christians of damning you to Hell, you're pointing your finger at the wrong person.

It's CHRIST who condemns those who deny him to Hell.

Your problem is with CHRIST, not with Christians.

-

CHRIST said he came to this world to save sinners (Luke 5:32, Mark 2:17).

CHRIST said he's been appointed the Judge of all the world. (John 5:22, 2 Tim. 4:1, Rev. 20, 22)

CHRIST said he has power on earth to forgive sins (Matt. 9:6), and to give eternal life to whomever he will. (John 17:2)

CHRIST said "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18)-

Those are the words of CHRIST!So don't "kill the messenger"!

Your problem is with the Lord Jesus Christ!

And you WILL go to Hell if you do not know Christ.You MUST come to Christ and be saved.

God's Word says:"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

Ach so! Ach so! Any God who would condemn a good man to hell for not believing in him is not worth my time. If I was a God, I'd take special pleasure in punishing those who used my name to damn others.

Yeah, well CHRIST is the one doing the damning, so you're going to have to come to HIM for mercy, or yes, you will be damned. That's a promise.

According to you, they can't come! If God would only "quicken" them, or "enlighten" them, or perform some sort of miraculous brain/heart surgery on them .... then they might. 'Tis a little cruel to say, "Come, come, come, come", knowing full well that they can't.

That's what the false doctrine of total hereditary depravity will do for ya. It'll result in more contradictions than Carter has liver pills.

Well, somehow YOU came to Christ because you were just wiser and more spiritual than the rest of us sinful fools, right?

Must be nice to be able to boast before God.

But the rest of us need a miracle of grace to be saved, or else we will all go to Hell.

I've nothing of which to boast. I came to Christ due to the evidence presented in His word.

You don't have his word.

You see, the gospel - not miraculous, better-felt-than-explained "illuminations" - is God's power unto salvation.

It's also largely fiction.

The word of God is not dead as you think it is.

There is no "word of God". You have the words of men, as selected by other men. God simply isn't involved... at all.

Lemme guess. "So-and-so told you".

You don't have to "guess". You already know I'm right. What books of the Bible did God write?

Has someone advanced the claim that God literally penned a book?

You're claiming the Bible as "God's word" without demonstrating any link whatsoever to God. Everything in it is the work of men. Not one word shows any demonstrable link to God.

What manuscripts did God select for inclusion in the Bible?

You are hung up on the word "Bible".

You're hung up on a simple and ridiculous claim from a council of men in the late 4th century. A "claim" is all it is, and it's utterly without the slightest hint of credibility. If I claim the phone book as the "word of Zeus", does that make it inspired by Zeus?

The answer in both cases, is "none". What did God ever say in regard to the books selected? Nothing.

A bunch of superstitious idiots sitting around in a room arguing about what writings are divine and which aren't (for more than 4 decades), and then finally declaring what they chose to be "God's word", doesn't make it God's word. It makes it the writings they decided they liked best.

Is that the methodology that was employed?

You know the methodology as well as I do. They dug through a huge collection of manuscripts, applied some Christian traditions which are without merit, tried to assure consistency with their voting, and emerged with the writings they personally preferred. Then they declared that specific collection "the word of God", and people with little to no ability to think for themselves, simply accepted it. Thirty years later (397 CE), they made some minor changes and again dubbed it "the word of God", and the same mental robots simply accepted the claim, just as you continue to accept that claim today.

There is absolutely no connection to God. It's as ridiculous as claiming fragments of newspaper articles to be the word of Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny or Mithra.

At 8/8/2014 12:34:40 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:You who accuse Christians of damning you to Hell, you're pointing your finger at the wrong person.

It's CHRIST who condemns those who deny him to Hell.

Your problem is with CHRIST, not with Christians.

-

CHRIST said he came to this world to save sinners (Luke 5:32, Mark 2:17).

CHRIST said he's been appointed the Judge of all the world. (John 5:22, 2 Tim. 4:1, Rev. 20, 22)

CHRIST said he has power on earth to forgive sins (Matt. 9:6), and to give eternal life to whomever he will. (John 17:2)

CHRIST said "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18)-

Those are the words of CHRIST!So don't "kill the messenger"!

Your problem is with the Lord Jesus Christ!

And you WILL go to Hell if you do not know Christ.You MUST come to Christ and be saved.

God's Word says:"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

Ach so! Ach so! Any God who would condemn a good man to hell for not believing in him is not worth my time. If I was a God, I'd take special pleasure in punishing those who used my name to damn others.

Yeah, well CHRIST is the one doing the damning, so you're going to have to come to HIM for mercy, or yes, you will be damned. That's a promise.

According to you, they can't come! If God would only "quicken" them, or "enlighten" them, or perform some sort of miraculous brain/heart surgery on them .... then they might. 'Tis a little cruel to say, "Come, come, come, come", knowing full well that they can't.

That's what the false doctrine of total hereditary depravity will do for ya. It'll result in more contradictions than Carter has liver pills.

Well, somehow YOU came to Christ because you were just wiser and more spiritual than the rest of us sinful fools, right?

Must be nice to be able to boast before God.

But the rest of us need a miracle of grace to be saved, or else we will all go to Hell.

I've nothing of which to boast. I came to Christ due to the evidence presented in His word.

You don't have his word.

You see, the gospel - not miraculous, better-felt-than-explained "illuminations" - is God's power unto salvation.

It's also largely fiction.

The word of God is not dead as you think it is.

There is no "word of God". You have the words of men, as selected by other men. God simply isn't involved... at all.

Lemme guess. "So-and-so told you".

You don't have to "guess". You already know I'm right. What books of the Bible did God write? What manuscripts did God select for inclusion in the Bible?

The answer in both cases, is "none". What did God ever say in regard to the books selected? Nothing.

Don't pretend. You know I'm right. If a council of former Boy Scout Den-Mothers selected the writings of a few dozen boy scouts, and claimed them to be "divine", would that make it "God's word"?

A bunch of superstitious idiots sitting around in a room arguing about what writings are divine and which aren't (for more than 4 decades), and then finally declaring what they chose to be "God's word", doesn't make it God's word. It makes it the writings they decided they liked best. And that's all you have - the preferred writings of the council - none of which were written by, or selected, by God.

The new Testament should not be thought of as the inspired word of god. Many Christians point to 2 Timothy 3:16-17, but this verse was meant to refer to the established canon of the OT. The NT was not even thought of when this verse was put to paper.

Nothing should be thought of as any sort of "word of God", until God decides to make some form of comment for himself. Unless/until that happens, anyone can suggest absolutely anything (including writings like "Mein Kampf"), as "the inspired Word of God", and do so with equal credibility. By what rule must a "god" be benevolent, good or caring? And why must that caring nature be directed toward homo sapiens? A god might just as well focus his care upon coniferous trees.

The only reason "God" directs his special attention to humans is that he's a human invention. The human-centric nature of God comes from humans themselves who are convinced that they're the special purpose and reason for the existence of the entire universe. Religion is an inherently self-centered belief of pure conceit.

Assuming the universe, or even this planet to be here for the express purpose of human occupation is as ridiculous and self-centered as an E. Coli bacterium assuming an entire barnyard full of animals and fecal waste to have been created specifically for its existence.

At 8/8/2014 12:34:40 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:You who accuse Christians of damning you to Hell, you're pointing your finger at the wrong person.

It's CHRIST who condemns those who deny him to Hell.

Your problem is with CHRIST, not with Christians.

-

CHRIST said he came to this world to save sinners (Luke 5:32, Mark 2:17).

CHRIST said he's been appointed the Judge of all the world. (John 5:22, 2 Tim. 4:1, Rev. 20, 22)

CHRIST said he has power on earth to forgive sins (Matt. 9:6), and to give eternal life to whomever he will. (John 17:2)

CHRIST said "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18)-

Those are the words of CHRIST!So don't "kill the messenger"!

Your problem is with the Lord Jesus Christ!

And you WILL go to Hell if you do not know Christ.You MUST come to Christ and be saved.

God's Word says:"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

Ach so! Ach so! Any God who would condemn a good man to hell for not believing in him is not worth my time. If I was a God, I'd take special pleasure in punishing those who used my name to damn others.

Yeah, well CHRIST is the one doing the damning, so you're going to have to come to HIM for mercy, or yes, you will be damned. That's a promise.

According to you, they can't come! If God would only "quicken" them, or "enlighten" them, or perform some sort of miraculous brain/heart surgery on them .... then they might. 'Tis a little cruel to say, "Come, come, come, come", knowing full well that they can't.

That's what the false doctrine of total hereditary depravity will do for ya. It'll result in more contradictions than Carter has liver pills.

Well, somehow YOU came to Christ because you were just wiser and more spiritual than the rest of us sinful fools, right?

Must be nice to be able to boast before God.

But the rest of us need a miracle of grace to be saved, or else we will all go to Hell.

I've nothing of which to boast. I came to Christ due to the evidence presented in His word.

You don't have his word.

You see, the gospel - not miraculous, better-felt-than-explained "illuminations" - is God's power unto salvation.

It's also largely fiction.

The word of God is not dead as you think it is.

There is no "word of God". You have the words of men, as selected by other men. God simply isn't involved... at all.

Lemme guess. "So-and-so told you".

You don't have to "guess". You already know I'm right. What books of the Bible did God write? What manuscripts did God select for inclusion in the Bible?

The answer in both cases, is "none". What did God ever say in regard to the books selected? Nothing.

Don't pretend. You know I'm right. If a council of former Boy Scout Den-Mothers selected the writings of a few dozen boy scouts, and claimed them to be "divine", would that make it "God's word"?

A bunch of superstitious idiots sitting around in a room arguing about what writings are divine and which aren't (for more than 4 decades), and then finally declaring what they chose to be "God's word", doesn't make it God's word. It makes it the writings they decided they liked best. And that's all you have - the preferred writings of the council - none of which were written by, or selected, by God.

The new Testament should not be thought of as the inspired word of god. Many Christians point to 2 Timothy 3:16-17, but this verse was meant to refer to the established canon of the OT. The NT was not even thought of when this verse was put to paper.

Nothing should be thought of as any sort of "word of God", until God decides to make some form of comment for himself. Unless/until that happens, anyone can suggest absolutely anything (including writings like "Mein Kampf"), as "the inspired Word of God", and do so with equal credibility. By what rule must a "god" be benevolent, good or caring? And why must that caring nature be directed toward homo sapiens? A god might just as well focus his care upon coniferous trees.

The only reason "God" directs his special attention to humans is that he's a human invention. The human-centric nature of God comes from humans themselves who are convinced that they're the special purpose and reason for the existence of the entire universe. Religion is an inherently self-centered belief of pure conceit.

Assuming the universe, or even this planet to be here for the express purpose of human occupation is as ridiculous and self-centered as an E. Coli bacterium assuming an entire barnyard full of animals and fecal waste to have been created specifically for its existence.

I can't say I disagree with you, but my point was even by Christian standards the NT should not be considered god inspired. Also, on a side note. if we pretend the entire Bible is the inspired word of god there is no such thing as a 'god inspired' understanding as evidenced by the many examples of believers claiming to have the "truth" which conflicts with the "truth" other Christians hold.

Science has taught us that, because we have a talent for deceiving ourselves, subjectivity may not freely reign. - Carl Sagan

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell