Replies to This Discussion

They say that history is written by the winners, and if the winner and loser themselves (god and satan) don't exist, then the representatives of the winners would tend to dominate things, no great surprise.

If there is a real contest here, it is between rationality and irrationality, with the latter currently holding the majority, while rationalism may be slowly but surely ascending. Personally, I don't like the satan vs. god model, as I don't care for either of those characters and neither has any demonstrated existence. Rationality vs irrationality, however, is VERY demonstrable, and I think that is where our focus should be.

To be honest, when I first read this, I was thinking, "So What. Flying Spaghetti Monster vs. Quetzalcoatl. Superman vs. The Incredible Hulk, etc." However, it got me thinking about the Abrahamic religions that all claim to be monotheistic, and are not. Judaism has Yhwh, but also has the god of evil, being Satan. And there are other spirit creatures, such as Golem, dybbuks that possess humans, etc. In Christianity, there are three gods in one - trinity - a theistic Swiss Army Knife. And, they also have the god of evil, along with various and sundry lesser gods such as angels, saints, and demons. And, while Islam has Allah, they also have the same god of evil the other two do (plagerism?), along with angels, jinns, and a host of other other spirits.

So, the point I take from this, whether it's God v. Satan, or FSM v. the Titans, or Allah v. Batman, is this. While many claim to be monotheists, there really aren't any.

You posit a question that has been answered enthusiastically (in both senses of the word) by the world's Gnostic sects. In the Mideastern tradition there are the Yezidis, who worship Satan in a cave, lighting candles to His name: they see the Devil as ruling this world, so He must be the true God. Similarly, the early and medieval Christian Gnostics included such "satanic" sects as the Cainites, who turned the litany of saints in the O.T. upside down, claiming, for example, that Cain was infinitely superior to Abel because the latter was favored by another god called Ialdabaoth, just as Korah was superior to Moses. When you stop to think about it, why villify Judas of Kerioth since it was only through his interventioin that the Messiah was allowed to go to his death that we all might have eternal life? (You can say one thing: the religious have practically monopolized blindness to reason.) Ialdabaoth is actually the same as Yahweh and Jehovah, but he is satanic. Only Abraxas is divine.

There have been a number of sci-fi type stories that pursued this angle, with fascinating results.

Many years ago I encountered a short story (I wish I could remember where or by whom) that re-cast the Jesus/Judas tale. It became more of a Julius Caesar/Brutus tale, where Judas, after long self doubt, got the courage to try to stop the madman, but it was already too late.

Really excellent point! Considering how awful the bible god, "God", behaves, arbitrary, mean, murderous, angry, just really really cruel, the god "Satan" might well be a nicer person. And if "God" is lying to everyone, then maybe you are right that hell is not hellish. Considering that the supporters of "God" always seem to want to kill and punish people, they are more demonic than demons.

Of course, it's what the followers do that's important. The rest is all fiction.

Regarding christianity, in theory, it is logically valid to say that in reality god is evil and the events in the bible are just a (flawed) publicity stunt to make him appear good and satan is actually the good guy fighting against him and has been subjected to a smear campaign.

I think a good case could also be made for comparing god to an evil facist dictator, crushing those who oppose him, demanding obedience and requiring adoration and material wealth.

To be honest, I think that might does equal right when talking about gods. If the supreme god says that something is right and chooses to reward conformity and punish disagreement with this, there is nothing and no-one that can cause the situation to be otherwise. It's not fair, but then neither is reality.

I posted it there when I was finished and didn't think much of it 'til a few days later, when I got a nasty-gram E-mail from one of their Moderators, telling me to knock it off with the anti-religious stuff and find another subject.

It was the only one I had posted among at least a hundred like it that others had posted.

Go figure...

I can only assume I musta' hit a nerve.

Or a bone.

Or...

Sumpthin'...

Anyway, it's been collecting dust in my Photobucket account, waiting for me to drag it out.