Not only am I a 7 on the Dawkins scale, but I don't see why any atheist would not be such (if not a 7, at least a 6.999... recurring). If you know there are no leprechauns, fairies or rock people (and that if we found evidence of something like them, we still wouldn't associate real-life facts with creatures of myth any more than we associate a picture of Jesus on toast with a real Jesus), and you understand gods as being mythical creatures, then you should also know there are no gods.

Even if we did find out that the universe has a creator, it would be an entity on its own right, with its own properties, not a mythical creature with human-invented properties.

To use an example to illustrate what I mean, we found out that sticking needles in people can have beneficial effects. But this does not prove or even count as evidence that acupuncture as a belief system, with its own pseudo-scientific premises, structure, etc is correct. It only proves that sticking needles in people can have beneficial effects. That is the only factual conclusion. Acupuncture was made up far before these experiments and, even if you assume that the phenomenon in question was the origin of acupuncture in some way, has no relation to that data.

Likewise, if a being came down to us and could rearrange the stars to spell its name, and we confirmed that this was no illusion of any sort (except of course projecting 3D space into a 2D image), I wouldn't assume that an imaginary entity "YHWH" has somehow sprung into existence, leaping from our minds to reality, and taking the exact form that we have imagined. That's not how reality works. Imagination is contained within our minds, it does not affect reality directly, only indirectly through our actions.

The two don't really represent different sides of the same coin. Christianity is simply the belief in Jesus as the son of god of the bible (subject to, at a minimum, denomination-specific interpretation of said book), while atheism is the lack of belief in god of any sort.

If you are, in fact, an atheist, it will eventually become clear, if and when you realize that you don't actually believe a god. In the meantime. join in any of the discussions going on let us get to know you, and you, us. Welcome!

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"Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky that created the entire universe and the majority believe you. Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure." ~George Carlin

There are some conceptions of God(s) that, by definition, certainly don't exist (like square-circle, married-bachelor definitions).

Other concepts of God(s) that I have come across are either a) ambiguous (e.g. "light", "energy", etc...) or b) describe something that already exist (e.g. "God is the universe"). These concepts are not convincing to me, yet I cannot say with certainty that these concepts are false; they are unfalsifiable.

Given this distinction, I am relatively certain that God(s) do not exist...hence agnostic atheism.

I'm not sure what my position is, according to these options, so it's good that I can select more than one. I suppose I am a gnostic monotheist and/or polytheist and/or pantheist. "In the beginning, there was the Word, and the Word was was with God, and the Word was God." God can be One, Many, or All, at His convenience (or at the convenience of whomever is speaking for Him).

Hello, by the way. I couldn't find a way to post in the Introductions forum, so I found this thread and replied to it, instead. Like many others, I've been lurking for quite some time, though it has been a while since I last lurked. Funny, the reason I finally decided to join isn't because I suddenly felt some compulsion to debate or spread some word or what have you, but because I realized lately that my writing skills have been dormant for some time. Why not take up some low-stress leisurely activity to exercise them? (I'm not claiming to be a great writer, just that I don't feel like I've kept up what I already have.)

You can see my moniker is a blending of "epistemology" and "jesus". Make of that what you will. You could say I'm on the far liberal end of the Christian spectrum, which I know can be frustrating for atheists, because my beliefs are not as easily nailed down as some of the fundies in your Mail Bag. (I also find them entertaining.) Maybe that means I just haven't thought about them enough. Maybe that means I'm just not honest with myself. Maybe that means they're still changing and evolving (shouldn't everything?). Probably a little of each. Guess I'll be forced to find out, if I continue to post!

Welcome to the forum, Epi[1]. Your willingness to admit you still have more to learn puts you ahead of a lot of theists who post here; the reactionaries (mostly of the fundie Christian variety) tend to leave in a huff after a bit. It seems to be a rule of thumb that the less traditional a given believer is, the longer they tend to stay.

Welcome to the forum, Epj[1]. Your willingness to admit you still have more to learn puts you ahead of a lot of theists who post here; the reactionaries (mostly of the fundie Christian variety) tend to leave in a huff after a bit. It seems to be a rule of thumb that the less traditional a given believer is, the longer they tend to stay.

Welcome to the forum, Epi[1]. Your willingness to admit you still have more to learn puts you ahead of a lot of theists who post here; the reactionaries (mostly of the fundie Christian variety) tend to leave in a huff after a bit. It seems to be a rule of thumb that the less traditional a given believer is, the longer they tend to stay.

Well the Bible teaches that we are all flawed and fall short of His grace. The fundies have their interpretation of that and I have mine. Theirs probably involves eschewing knowing that appears to contradict what they believe the scripture says. I, however, don't believe that God wants a bunch of ignoramuses in Heaven singing songs to Him for eternity any more than any of us would want a city of gerbils squeaking at our feet forever and ever.

Hello all. This is my first post here, though I've lurked for ages and ages before finally registering. This poll was difficult for me because I want very much to be a deist. But I had to follow my gut instinct and pick "agnostic atheist."

Not sure why I "want" to be a deist. I guess because I used to be a christian and it is very, very, very difficult for me to really admit to myself that I just flat out don't think there is a god. Period. It was hard enough saying goodbye to the comfort I found in christianity. Meaning, I loved believing I had a "personal savior" who loved me and I could talk to all day. It was difficult for me to let go of that, but it got to the point where I knew I was just faking it to make myself feel better.

Then I took comfort in thinking, well there MUST be a god who started all of this. But s/he sure as hell isn't around to help any of us here on Planet Earth.

I don't know. All of this makes my brain hurt. It's maddening.

All I do know is that when I forced myself to pick the choice that most resonated with me, it was agnostic atheist.

I should feel liberated I guess, but I have to confess it makes me sad. Like when I found out Santa wasn't real - it broke my heart. I'm 43 now and feel the same way - how humiliating, lol.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to learning here, and getting to know others and their experiences/journeys.

Welcome Ruby. This forum is loaded with knowledgeable people and if you are debating any arguments in your head, feel free to type them here and we can maybe help. Be careful though because this forum can become addicting, for believers and non-believers.

Let me give you this comfort. The best thing about popping the Santa bubble is that the true joy of gift giving and receiving can shine through. I hated it when my daughter thought a gift (very carefully chosen by me) came from Santa!

It's the same with god belief. Now when I do something kind I'm certain it really is me and not my fear of God. And the recipients who know my atheism know it's me and they thank me directly - not via god's fucking useless blessings. Secular goodness has a lot going for it - be happy

Thank you iamrational and william for your warm welcomes - much appreciated!

iamrational - it's OK by me to be addicted to this for now, I'm eager to soak in as much knowledge as I can. Also, I'm recovering from major surgery and my laptop is now my personal savior, lol.

William - beautiful analogy re: the Santa bubble bursting. So true. Thank you for that comforting thought.

Now I just have to - eventually - stop pretending I believe in god. Long story not meant for this particular board - I'll delve into it once I get to make my own post in the intro section. It's freaking awful to feel like such a fake. I don't go to church anymore but I don't "come out" as an atheist or even agnostic. I just keep my mouth shut when people say they are praying for me or whatever (i.e., the recent surgery). I give my surgeon 100% of the credit for the success of the operation, not god, by the way.

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"Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be true. " ~ Thomas Paine

iamrational - it's OK by me to be addicted to this for now, I'm eager to soak in as much knowledge as I can. Also, I'm recovering from major surgery and my laptop is now my personal savior, lol.

Hope you don't have cause to regret that... we have Nam here after all .

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Now I just have to - eventually - stop pretending I believe in god. Long story not meant for this particular board - I'll delve into it once I get to make my own post in the intro section. It's freaking awful to feel like such a fake. I don't go to church anymore but I don't "come out" as an atheist or even agnostic. I just keep my mouth shut when people say they are praying for me or whatever (i.e., the recent surgery). I give my surgeon 100% of the credit for the success of the operation, not god, by the way.

Looking forward to hearing about your journey towards atheism.

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Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.--Marcus Aurelius

Hi Ruby, As a fellow Christian (Church of the Brethren) and now agnostic atheist, the love and support of our collective fellow man is still the important thing as it could be in any religion. There is absolutely no reason to be sad. There is, however, every reason to continue dancing with reckless abandon.

Welcome RubyLeo. l've been a non-believer far too long to personally identify with your sense of loss. I was just a kid when I figured it out and I was quite happy to get rid of that boogie man, so I never suffered any sadness. But I certainly sympathize. Hopefully your participation here will help you come to terms with the change. Even though you'll have to deal with our quirks in the meantime.

We look forward to your contributions, and keep us updated on how you're progressing, non-god-wise.

ParkingPlaces - I'm very happy for you that you figured it out as a kid. I was a total sheep. I'm so very proud of my oldest son, who, like you, figured it out and dealt with it way before I did. He had the courage/inner strength to question the crap out of his sunday school teachers, he would not accept their answers. YAY for him - I wish I had been like that at his age! We now love sharing agnostic/atheist books, quotes, memes, etc.!

I digress - bragging on my kid, what a cliche' - my point was I'm glad you were smart enough to shed the boogie man at a young age.

I believe I will shed my sadness by being here, joining in with others who have dismissed the boogie man lie, feeling a sense of togetherness in that, and learning more every day.

Thanks again to you both for your welcomes.

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"Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be true. " ~ Thomas Paine