This is an article that had guys in my industry busting a gut over it`s proof most of the global warming hysteria is a lie, the govt wants to regulate the CO2 that comes out of your tail pipe and charge you for the rest, So the A/C refrigerant were using now is supposedly BAD for the planet and the new stuff needs to be ultra green. So everything that can be used is given a GWP number CO2 has the lowest GWP number of any know refrigerant but we can`t use it because it`s not cost effective? but the stuff coming out of your tail pipe is! because someone knows how to tax you for it!

JPH I would absolutely love to take your position on this but rules and regs like this are why i can`t because it will be more of the same, Kind of like how small engines were never supposed to be regulated under any EPA plans well we see how long that lasted, 2 strokes are being squeezed out of existence 4 strokes are in but with mandated emissions regs and sometimes a 2 stroke is just a better performing engine for the intended purpose.

shaman wrote:See, what I don't like about all this talk of gun control is that the Federal Government is the last entity on Earth I would trust to figure out how to control gun ownership. I've seen what they've done to the Postal Service and the tax code. Furthermore, I do not see where controlling high-cap mags or black rifles or pistol grips has anything to do with protecting children. Armed mothers and fathers protect children. If need be, teachers too.

JPH: Sorry guy, but I have to disagree with you. About 2 years into my life as a shooter, I saw a list of what guns they were thinking about banning. I'd just bought a nice used Remington 1100 shotgun for general purposes. THAT gun was on the list. I immediately went out and joined the NRA, and became a life member. The membership cost me as much as the dang shotgun, but I figured it was a good investment both ways. Today, that 1100 still sits leaning against the wall next to my bed and I still believe that the government cannot disarm its free citizens without become a tyranny.

I'm not surprised that few of you are actually reading what I propose.

I am staunchly against the banning of any firearm that is presently legal. I'm certainly not scared of "black rifles or pistol grips". What I am saying is that high-cap mags are being increasingly used as the tool of choice for deranged mass-murderers. The rate of fire available to one of these sickos is so great that escape has proven to be nearly impossible. Virginia Tech? Aurora? Newtown? These incidents are washing the starch out of the old saws about how we're the militia and ifgunsareoutlawedonlyoutlawswillhaveguns, blah-blah-blah.

WW, your logic that the reduction to 5 rounds will eventually lead to a reduction to 1 and then a reduction to 0 does not sway me. We could easily follow it in the other direction. If we cannot restrict rate of fire via capacity restrictions then why not lift the restrictions on fully automatic weapons? How about crew served weapons, rocket launchers, hand grenades, and small artillery? At some point we have to trust one another to make reasonable compromises.

Guys, I just think this is one of those issues that we must pull ourselves from the rhetoric and age old cliches and really examine the harsh reality. 5 rd mags wont fix the problem. Increased mental health screening won't fix the problem. Building protective barriers into public spaces won't fix the problem. All of these are simply measures to slow down the bleeding in our nation. Everyone needs to accept that they must alter somewhat or the bleeding will continue without aid.

Woods Walker wrote:And whatever knee jerk, politically driven, impractical, unworkable solution the government comes up with won't work either. Their track record is almost perfect on that.

We agree on that, brother! I'd rather sit around the camp fire with people who own and use guns and try to find a reasonable form of control.

It's kind of like the "ethics" argument that springs up here from time to time. Some people thing that one hunter should never question the ethical conduct of other hunters, because antis might overhear and use it to take away hunting forever. I disagree. I have always believed that honest and civil debate among well informed members of the hunting and gun owning community is the thing that will keep our way of life alive. If we refuse to answer these questions, someone will come in and answer them for us.

JPH wrote:Guys, I just think this is one of those issues that we must pull ourselves from the rhetoric and age old cliches and really examine the harsh reality. 5 rd mags wont fix the problem. Increased mental health screening won't fix the problem. Building protective barriers into public spaces won't fix the problem. All of these are simply measures to slow down the bleeding in our nation. Everyone needs to accept that they must alter somewhat or the bleeding will continue without aid.

Well said on this point... There is no "fix" to the problem... I guess we all just have to decide for ourselves how we are going to respond to whatever does come out of this whole deal.

Merry Christmas to all of you and May God bless this nation...we really need it these days.

"When a hunter is in a tree stand with high moral values and with the proper hunting ethics and richer for the experience, that hunter is 20 feet closer to God." ~Fred Bear

No one ever thought that our 5 fish would go to 1 fish to zero fish, based on some knee jerk reaction revolving around faulty science and environmental "do-gooders(EDF/PEW/HSUS)". But it did.Not only did that happen ( the "rights" of the public to access fish taken away and or greatly reduced) it was given to commercial entities FOR PROFIT. We, as in We the People, were left onshore holding our rods while some entity the government can control had access. Can you imagine that? It really happened. The commercial fisherman were allowed to fish, catch and profit from a species(grouper) of fish that was labeled "overfished", while the family man was banned! As it stands we are still undergoing lack of access, reduced fishing days and species, reduced limits etc. This is an long battle that has continued and we're still losing ground.(the latest..........giving commercial longliners permits to fish offshore in federally closed waters, under the guise of "science"

This governmental control of its people is growing. Its the green-movement, the PETA movement, the "things need to be fair and equal" movement, the liberal movement, there should be no guns movement, the government can run our lives for us better than we can movement, etc etc.

I am not in any way shape or form insinuating that our access to a grouper equates to children being slaughtered, or the size of someone's gun, magazine, or access to certain armor piercing bullets.

But what I am saying, is DO NOT ever, ever be misled into thinking you won't lose something that you think "no way would the government would take that away" . Its happening daily, one small piece at a time.

Stand up for your rights, join organizations that support your beliefs

"Go as far as you can see; when you get there, you'll be able to see farther."

"But what I am saying, is DO NOT ever, ever be misled into thinking you won't lose something that you think "no way would the government would take that away" . Its happening daily, one small piece at a time"