I recently handled one, however, and was very unimpressed. Having handled it, I had no desire to shoot it. Looking at the page which is linked, a series of custom features are cited, with comparable costs.

Taurus cites a full length guide rod with reverse plug; this isn't a benefit.

Taurus cites a serrated slide rear and front...by this they mean the cocking serrations, and not actually a serrated rear of the slide. The serrations on the Taurus are wide, and useless on the front...where serrations should not be. Serrations on the front of the slide were a fad about ten years ago, but do little more than tear up the holster.

Taurus cites 30 lpi checkering; their checkering is unimpressive...and do you really need the trigger guard checkered on a 1911?

The ambi-safety on the tauri I handled were spongy and had excess play, and weren't well fit to the weapon. Not exactly a plus.

The beavertail on the tauri were poorly fitted, and again, not really quality work.

Skeletonized hammers and triggers aren't exactly custom pieces today. Simply having a hole in something doesn't make it a better part, and can't really be used to call it comparable to a custom piece. Taurus cites those two features as being worth sixty and a hundred dollars each, however. Perhaps if you wisely replace the components supplied by Taurus...you might have to spend that to bring the parts up to spec. Perhaps that's what they mean.

The hundred dollar trigger job is a bit of a puzzler, because the Taurus 1911 certainly doesn't have a trigger that could be called reflective of having had a trigger job, and if they were to claim as much, it certainly wouldn't be worth a hundred dollars. Perhaps, again, they mean you can spend a hundred to get someone to do something about their trigger. I suspect you'll spend a lot more than that, however.

The "custom fit barrel" and "air-gauged bushing" aren't custom, and appear to be drop-in parts from a bin. Any gauging appear to have been conducted as "the long thing fits through the hole."

They suggest their "lowered and flared ejection port" is worth fifty bucks...but this assumes that one has to modify another firearm by lowering and flaring the ejection port. Given that nearly all 1911's come with a lowered and flared ejection port now...this seems rather redundant.

"Custom internal extractor," they say. What's "custom" about it?

Extended mag release button...not necessarily an advantage.

Beveled mag well...hard not to find a 1911 without a beveled mag well these days, isn't it? Sort of expected...like if it's not done, it's not finished. So to suggest it's worth something extra is...misleading.

Extra eight round magazine. They value it more than a good Tripp Research or Chip McCormick mag. They must really be proud of their magazine.

Now, a lot of those advertised features might be worth extra consideration if they weren't cheap parts, thrown together in a decidedly NOT custom way (overlooking the use of the word "custom" throughout their advertising, of course). The slide felt gritty...not sure how it was fit, but it wasn't done well. The trigger was heavy, gritty, with takeup, overtravel, and not really an exciting break. The entire firearm felt fairly cheap.

I'm sure others will have more detailed information to offer about actually shooting it or owning it, and I can't speak to that end. I was unimpressed enough it was as far as I wanted to go with any of the Taurus models I handled.

faawrenchbndr

01-13-2010, 13:02

You can put a pig in a dress, but, it's still a pig.

sns3guppy

01-13-2010, 13:16

I forgot to mention that the gigantic ridiculous roll-marks down the side of the slide make it look like an airsoft pistol.

3rdgen40

01-13-2010, 13:17

You can put a pig in a dress, but, it's still a pig.
Yeah, an over priced pig.:supergrin:

RonS

01-13-2010, 17:44

Damn, and I was eating when I clicked the link.

Quack

01-13-2010, 18:46

Damn, and I was eating when I clicked the link.

tastes better coming up doesn't it? :rofl:

Ruggles

01-13-2010, 20:07

Seems to be a love or hate brand of 1911.

bac1023

01-13-2010, 20:24

:puking:

That says it all. :whistling:

dakrat

01-13-2010, 20:37

I would take an RIA 1911 over taurus

bac1023

01-13-2010, 20:46

Holy cow, I just realized that, for me, its the worst trifecta imaginable in a 1911. :shocked:

Number one, its a Taurus

Number two, its got a rail

And number three, its aluminum

:rofl:

Hell, someone would have to pay me to take that thing. :rofl::rofl:

Walter

01-14-2010, 05:15

I must've gotten a lemon Taurus then because my Stainless PT1911 has been flawless, 1200 rounds thru it without a hiccup.

Maybe I should send it back to the factory and get it replaced with one of the ones you guys are talking about!

Why do most people like to put down a gun that they've only seen or read about but haven't fired themselves?

I replaced the ambi-safety with an STI left hand safety and put Pachmyrs on it but otherwise it's a great stock 1911.

I truly hate gun snobs. If it's not a Kimber, STI, etc, etc, it's automatically a piece of garbage according to some people. Well, some folks cannot afford a $2000+ 1911; it my $630 Taurus functions flawlessly when I pull the trigger and does what I require of it without any problems, why is it a "pig"? Nobody ever heard of a Kimber that wasn't perfect? I'll bet Kimber's Customer Service Dept is manned by the same lonely guy who worked for Maytag years ago. And Springfield Arms probably doesn't even have/need a Customer Service Dept.

It's supposed to be about the fun and enjoyment of shooting. Why can't everyone just be happy for a person who got a new gun without putting them down? Just because you may own a big name gun does not give you the right to bash someone who doesn't. If you haven't owned and fired a gun, you have very little right to bash it.

I don't care what you've read; there are just as many people satisfied with their "pig". Many people are quick to write about a bad experience buy many more, with great experiences, rarely pick up a pen.

I think the gun snobs are just jealous that they got took for $2000+ when a $650 1911 would have been just as good.

bac1023

01-14-2010, 05:54

I think the gun snobs are just jealous that they got took for $2000+ when a $650 1911 would have been just as good.

OK then.

So I assume your PT1911 is as good as a Wilson CQB?

My opinion is that its not even as good as a $400 RIA or Firestorm.

I think the PT is actually $100-$150 overpriced for the quality you get.

bac1023

01-14-2010, 05:56

It's supposed to be about the fun and enjoyment of shooting. Why can't everyone just be happy for a person who got a new gun without putting them down?
That's easy.

To me, its unacceptable. I feel Taurus makes a few good handguns, but the 1911 isn't one of them.

faawrenchbndr

01-14-2010, 07:05

....Why do most people like to put down a gun that they've only seen or read about but haven't fired themselves?.....

What part of the OP's request for "Honest opinions please" did you NOT understand?!

Here's the deal,....
I've worked for many years, long hours, away from home to give
me the oportunity to own a weapon of a quality that my wife and
childs well being deserves. I demand a quality firearm that I have
the utmost trust in to protect life when it is needed most.

A Taurus, in my eyes, does not have the quality or the reliability
to live up to my standards. A poor quality product with known
inferior materials is a disaster waiting to happen.

Furthermore,...if I can drive to work in a Cadillac versus a KIA,.......
Need I explain more?

A pig in a dime store dress is still a pig!
My apologies if that offends you, sux for that to happen.

faawrenchbndr

01-14-2010, 07:12

dup post,........apologies.

ilgunguygt

01-14-2010, 08:59

I must've gotten a lemon Taurus then because my Stainless PT1911 has been flawless, 1200 rounds thru it without a hiccup.

Maybe I should send it back to the factory and get it replaced with one of the ones you guys are talking about!

Why do most people like to put down a gun that they've only seen or read about but haven't fired themselves?

I replaced the ambi-safety with an STI left hand safety and put Pachmyrs on it but otherwise it's a great stock 1911.

I truly hate gun snobs. If it's not a Kimber, STI, etc, etc, it's automatically a piece of garbage according to some people. Well, some folks cannot afford a $2000+ 1911; it my $630 Taurus functions flawlessly when I pull the trigger and does what I require of it without any problems, why is it a "pig"? Nobody ever heard of a Kimber that wasn't perfect? I'll bet Kimber's Customer Service Dept is manned by the same lonely guy who worked for Maytag years ago. And Springfield Arms probably doesn't even have/need a Customer Service Dept.

It's supposed to be about the fun and enjoyment of shooting. Why can't everyone just be happy for a person who got a new gun without putting them down? Just because you may own a big name gun does not give you the right to bash someone who doesn't. If you haven't owned and fired a gun, you have very little right to bash it.

I don't care what you've read; there are just as many people satisfied with their "pig". Many people are quick to write about a bad experience buy many more, with great experiences, rarely pick up a pen.

I think the gun snobs are just jealous that they got took for $2000+ when a $650 1911 would have been just as good.
You want honesty? I owned one, and my uncle owned two. We both sold them. The safety fell off of mine, and would have fallen of his too, if he wouldnt have replaced it before it could. The guns part fitment looked like it was done by a rabid four year old with a bastard file. The checkering was crooked and uneven. The trigger was full of slop and broke well above 6-7 pounds. Its a junk gun.

I recently bought a RIA officers model and can honestly say that it is a world better. 100% better gun. I wouldnt recommend a taurus 1911 to anyone, period.

PlasticGuy

01-14-2010, 09:00

POS with an aluminum frame and a rail. There are a lot of better 1911's, but few worse. I used to be a gun manager at a large sporting goods store, and the Taurus 1911's had the highest warranty return rate of any handgun we sold.

I'd buy a lightweight Springfield Operator. It's a much better pistol, and just a little more money.

sns3guppy

01-14-2010, 11:04

Maybe I should send it back to the factory and get it replaced with one of the ones you guys are talking about!

You probably should, yes.

Nobody ever heard of a Kimber that wasn't perfect? I'll bet Kimber's Customer Service Dept is manned by the same lonely guy who worked for Maytag years ago. And Springfield Arms probably doesn't even have/need a Customer Service Dept.

Of course they have customer service departments. Good ones. But they don't see nearly the frequency of returns that Taurus does.

Why can't everyone just be happy for a person who got a new gun without putting them down?

Reading comprehension 101...the original poster didn't state that he got a new Taurus. He simply asked for honest opinions from forum members. You see the difference, don't you?

Why do most people like to put down a gun that they've only seen or read about but haven't fired themselves?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I had to put it down, without ever shooting it, because A) I felt dirty holding it; B) the only way to shoot it was to buy it and that was NOT going to happen; C) I don't believe in wasting money; D) I could have bought a better firearm for less money; D) it felt cheap before ever having to chamber a round; and E) I couldn't have cared less about it's function after having handled it. Hence my previous responses, addressing specifics about the weapon.

So long as you're on that "most people" part, why do you suppose it is that very few people find happiness with their Taurus 1911?

Why is it that the best selling firearms are cheap weapons, and some of the most avid defenders of their firearm are the ones who buy the cheap weapons? I had a guy pontificate at length one night, in a walmart of all places, on the virtues of his hi-point on his hip. To hear him tell it, the Lord himself came down and blessed the earth with the design. Glad you're happy with your Taurus 1911. You're in somewhat of an elite group, however...there aren't too many of you around.

Many people are quick to write about a bad experience buy many more, with great experiences, rarely pick up a pen.

Setting aside sentence structure, it's just as well. They'd get ink all over their keyboard.

If you haven't owned and fired a gun, you have very little right to bash it.

Really? By that logic, we need to try cocaine to tell kids to stay off drugs, and one must drop out of school in order to have the right to tell kids to stay in school. One must crash a car in order to have the right to tell others to not crash their car (and wear seatbelts), and let's not forget that if you ever plan to tell someone to eat all their vegetables, you'd better stop, right away. After all, if you haven't done it and don't own it, then you've no right to tell others. Correct?

Now, in all fairness, you didn't specifically state that if one has never owned or fired a Taurus 1911, then one has very little right to bash it. You simply said that anyone who hasn't owned "a gun." Most likely everyone here is a "gun" owner, so does that give everyone the right to express their opinion? Does the fact that the original poster asked an open-ended question inviting opinions, count?

I've flown a lot of aircraft I don't own. I've evaluated them, operated them, worked them. As I don't own them, are my evaluations invalid?

I've seen aircraft I wouldn't fly; I've discovered items during a preflight inspection which lead me to reject the aircraft for maintenance reasons, or paperwork reasons. As I didn't own it, and didn't operate it, does this mean I don't have a leg to stand on?

Perhaps because I have considerable experience as a pilot and mechanic, I might be able to evaluate that aircraft without ever getting it it. You think? Likewise, a number of shooters here have enough experience that they can evaluate for themselves whether a firearm is worth buying, or shooting. Now, they may learn more for themselves once they fire the weapon...a weapon may look great, but may not be worth anything when shot. Or a weapon may look poor, but shoot fine. Many of us, however, don't want to waste our money on a weapon that's poorly fit, and that operates in an uneven, gritty manner, and which feels cheap from the get-go.

Perhaps it's actually up to us, whether we want to go as far as buying or owning the weapon. Do you think?

Ian

01-14-2010, 11:25

the original poster didn't state that he got a new Taurus. He simply asked for honest opinions from forum members
sns3guppy:
You are correct.
I posted this as my friend was about to purchase this firearm, and I was unable to convince him otherwise.
Through years of experience, I have only heard of bad reports about Taurus revolvers and semi-autos, and having read postings here, the same thing seems true of their 1911's.
Many thanks to all posters, and especially for your post, as we were amazed at how extensive and informative your reply was.

faawrenchbndr: You can put a pig in a dress, but, it's still a pig.
Excellent!

GVFlyer

01-14-2010, 11:36

Seems to be a love or hate brand of 1911.

That really seems to be the case.

My wife's nightstand gun is a Taurus Judge loaded with two buckshot rounds and three .45 Long Colt Winchester Silver Tips. Next month, we'll be loading it with the new Winchester PDX1 rounds with three plated Defense Disc projectiles and 12 pellets of plated BB shot in each cartridge.

When I come home late at night from a flight I text message her, "It's me, don't shoot!".

She carries an all steel ported Taurus .38 Special snubbie. She needed the recoil reduction accomplished by the porting and increased weight. Taurus was the only manufacturer that we found that offered a ported 2 inch .38.

We have been satisfied with the performance of both weapons. I have no direct experience with the Taurus 1911, however, one of the men I shoot with has one and he seems pleased with the weapon at its price point.

sns3guppy

01-14-2010, 12:19

Through years of experience, I have only heard of bad reports about Taurus revolvers and semi-autos, and having read postings here, the same thing seems true of their 1911's.

I've actually found some of their revolvers to be a good value, in the past. I don't own any presently, but haven't had much concern with their revolvers.

marlinfan

01-14-2010, 13:01

I have a springfield GI and a taurus pt1911. I've shot a couple cases of ammo through both and carry one or the other depending on my mood and both do the job of going bang when they need to. I don't have the money for an Ed Brown or Wilson and in my opinion, the taurus does an ok job for such a cheap gun.

krunchnik

01-14-2010, 13:09

HMMM,I wonder why it only got 1 low rating on Buds,seems their customers are happy with their PT1911.I am with mine,never had a single failure with mine.And I have owned other makes and models I wasnt happy with,presently I carry a RIA officers size and also own a Para and a Springer.I am happy with all 4 of them.If you compare all the makers of 1911,s you will find they all produce some problematic pieces at one time or another.If I were to listen to everyone one elses opinion on firearms I wouldnt own a Para either,and its been flawless to this point(other than their finish),and I also hear Springers EMP has feeding problems also,All in all,make the decision on what you like,cause thats all that matters in the end.:supergrin::supergrin::supergrin:

sns3guppy

01-14-2010, 13:52

...the taurus does an ok job for such a cheap gun.

Cheap, as opposed to inexpensive. One refers to quality, one refers to price.

faawrenchbndr

01-14-2010, 14:58

HMMM,I wonder why it only got 1 low rating on Buds......

Uh,.....they are in the business to SELL guns not post reviews that
discourage sales!

It's still a pig.:whistling:

marlinfan

01-14-2010, 15:14

Cheap, as opposed to inexpensive. One refers to quality, one refers to price.
yea, whatever dude....:upeyes:

harleyfx69

01-14-2010, 15:56

you get whta you pay for the on the taurus 1911,

replace the lawyer lock hammer for starters,

along with the mismatched internals that you will probably never look at until something breaks on you..

replace the safetys with something a "little" better .. and your on your way to a good start ..

and ultimately if you have the change and a good gunsmith, replace all add on parts to the gun as its a good forged frame / slide for a build

sns3guppy

01-14-2010, 17:49

yea, whatever dude....

Setting aside the intellectual contribution that "yea, whatever dude" makes, and the misspelling of 33% of that post, have you a dictionary? Do you understand the meaning of the word "cheap?"

faawrenchbndr

01-14-2010, 18:08

Setting aside the intellectual contribution that "yea, whatever dude" makes, and the misspelling of 33% of that post, have you a dictionary? Do you understand the meaning of the word "cheap?"

This particular post contributes diddly to this thread.
It just reinforces the fact that you seem to be in this one just to
argue a point with NO experience of the weapon.

I argue that it's always been a PIG, it's been a dressed up PIG,
and it will continue to always be a,........:pig::pig::pig:

sns3guppy

01-14-2010, 19:02

I wasn't the one that called it cheap. I did point out that cheap means poor in quality, not low in price. It's not really inexpensive...but it is cheap.

An accurate statement contributes as much to the thread as anything, and directly addresses the original question of the thread itself.

marlinfan

01-14-2010, 20:04

Sorry if I offended you by saying cheap instead of inexpensive. My apologies. It's one of my carry guns and the rest of my cheap collection of springfields and rugers probably don't appeal to many here in this subforum either, just stating what experience I've had with the pt1911 like the thread stated.. I'll make sure to not clog up the 1911 forum in the future.

FLIPPER 348

01-14-2010, 20:24

So long as you're on that "most people" part, why do you suppose it is that very few people find happiness with their Taurus 1911?

Do you think?

Actually, it seems that very few people find un-happiness with their Taurus 1911 as it is HUGELY successful product line.

.....but do go on as your relentless PT 1911 bashing, without ever owning or shooting one, is quite entertaining!

sns3guppy

01-14-2010, 22:08

Actually, it seems that very few people find un-happiness with their Taurus 1911 as it is HUGELY successful product line.

Perhaps you are basing this comment on the number sold? Lorcin, Jennings, and other cheap, poor firearms are sold in large numbers...and in fact are some of the best selling firearms. Their success in sales does not make them a good firearm; it simply caters to a cheap clientele.

Sorry if I offended you by saying cheap instead of inexpensive.

I don't think you offended anyone. You made a correct statement. It is a cheap firearm. Just not inexpensive.

SouthpawShootr

01-14-2010, 22:34

I think the gun snobs are just jealous that they got took for $2000+ when a $650 1911 would have been just as good.

Do you believe everything you read? :wow:

I can't boast any 1911s to compare with what's in Bac's collection, but I will tell you that the PT1911 is nowhere close to a $2000 gun. Sure they list custom "features" but most of them are done in a half-assed fashion with substandard parts. I've never seen "checkering" like this before. A decent stippling job is far easier (and cheaper) to do. Although the sights carry big names (Heinie and Novak), I'm told these are actually licensed copies and the dovetails are not proprietary to Taurus. Though I haven't yet experienced a safety failure, there's been enough individual reports to convince me there's a problem. I'll keep my PT1911AR, maybe gradually upgrade it with Wilson or Ed Brown parts. At this point, I'm more impressed with my Rock Island Tactical. Not as many "features" but a much better value in my book.

Now as to the OP's question. I would avoid PT1911s with aluminum frames. At least for a while. See how they hold up. Taurus' best production gun, the PT92, uses an aluminum frame and they're great, but that expertise doesn't necessarily transfer to the 1911 platform. Stress and wear points are different and I don't know that Taurus has verified durability. Further, I wouldn't order one. If I could handle the particular gun I'm going to buy, assure myself that all is well with it (as much as possible), then I'd feel better about it.

glock2740

01-14-2010, 22:37

It looks like a badass pellet pistol.

PlasticGuy

01-14-2010, 22:52

Actually, it seems that very few people find un-happiness with their Taurus 1911 as it is HUGELY successful product line.

.....but do go on as your relentless PT 1911 bashing, without ever owning or shooting one, is quite entertaining!
There are a lot of people just as willing to believe marketing hype as you are. There are much better guns. In fact, there are much better guns for the same price. It appears that many people still think they can get something for nothing, and have to learn the hard way.

And as far as the lack of experience part, I have as much experience with them as anybody here. I did the paperwork on 12 of them when they sold. Then I did the paperwork to return half of them to the factory to be rebuilt into a working product, and they took their time getting them back to us. Then I had to return one again so they could try a third time, which took even longer. Nobody had put 1,000 rounds through them at that point. Crappy gun. Crappy company. No thanks.

M1A Shooter

01-14-2010, 23:08

a friend of mine bought a PT1911 when i got my SA Milspec. he boasted about all of the custom features but i felt that my milspec was actually a better fitted gun. we paid about the same price initially but he had to replace the sights and safeties on his as they fell off. both of us actually shot the milspec better as well. my gun has over 2K rounds through it and his has 200. hes now trying to trade it off.

i think Taurus does a good job marketing to those who dont really know much about the 1911 platform in the first place.

bac1023

01-15-2010, 05:16

a friend of mine bought a PT1911 when i got my SA Milspec. he boasted about all of the custom features but i felt that my milspec was actually a better fitted gun.

The SA is a much better fitted 1911.

Travclem

01-15-2010, 08:08

My dad recently bought a blued PT1911 from a coworker for $300 and after handling it I was impressed by the action. The Slide ran super smooth on the rails and the trigger wasn't bad. The hammer sucks and the finish on the safety, grips safety, and slide stop dont match the gun for ****. They have a purplish hue to them like they've been colored with a black sharpie. overall not a bad gun for $300 but I personally wouldn't give much more for it.

ilgunguygt

01-15-2010, 11:55

My dad recently bought a blued PT1911 from a coworker for $300 and after handling it I was impressed by the action. The Slide ran super smooth on the rails and the trigger wasn't bad. The hammer sucks and the finish on the safety, grips safety, and slide stop dont match the gun for ****. They have a purplish hue to them like they've been colored with a black sharpie. overall not a bad gun for $300 but I personally wouldn't give much more for it.
Unfortunately I have seen it creeping up inot the 700s lately in some shops. I think that unless they can get it back down to soemthing similar to a RIA in price, they arent worth it.

doolyd

01-15-2010, 19:12

Bought my PT1911 Stainless about 1 year ago has about 1500 rounds through it and has been absolutely perfect. My buddy got one before I did and his also has been absolutely perfect.

I won't debate fit and finish but as far as accuracy and reliability I have had absolutely no issues.

It seems every time BAC replies about PT1911 threads he hates the Taurus more and more. I remember he didn't have so much hate when I was asking about them a year ago. BAC, did you have some bad experience with yours. How many rounds do you have through yours?

mike55

01-15-2010, 19:42

I don't care for the aluminum frame. I prefer the models that are all steel because thet are one of the easiest pistols to shoot well.

Also, I have no complaints about my PT1911. I like it so well that I have plans to get one in 38 Super in the near future.
mike

raceone

01-15-2010, 19:46

Bac does seem inconsistent on his comments at times. Fusion is another company he has said positive things and other times he has said negative things about them. There isn't a Gun company or Smith you can't find fault with as well as positive things. Be it customer service, fit and finish, price etc.
If you like brand x gun or smith x built gun and like it and enjoy shooting it thats all that matters.

ilgunguygt

01-15-2010, 23:47

Bought my PT1911 Stainless about 1 year ago has about 1500 rounds through it and has been absolutely perfect. My buddy got one before I did and his also has been absolutely perfect.

I won't debate fit and finish but as far as accuracy and reliability I have had absolutely no issues.

It seems every time BAC replies about PT1911 threads he hates the Taurus more and more. I remember he didn't have so much hate when I was asking about them a year ago. BAC, did you have some bad experience with yours. How many rounds do you have through yours?
I think Bac is the same as I am on that, if someone says "I got a taurus with X amount of rounds and its a good accurate gun" bac would say the same thing I would, congrats you got a good one. When someone starts to compare it to a 2000 dollar gun, well, thats a stupid statement, and deserves a response accordingly.
Bac does seem inconsistent on his comments at times. Fusion is another company he has said positive things and other times he has said negative things about them. There isn't a Gun company or Smith you can't find fault with as well as positive things. Be it customer service, fit and finish, price etc.
If you like brand x gun or smith x built gun and like it and enjoy shooting it thats all that matters.
Thats because different models from a same manufacturer will have differing levels of quality. Sig, Para, etc. all suffer from this same situation. You cant say that all models by a manufacturer are perfect, its just not true.

raceone

01-16-2010, 06:03

I think Bac is the same as I am on that, if someone says "I got a taurus with X amount of rounds and its a good accurate gun" bac would say the same thing I would, congrats you got a good one. When someone starts to compare it to a 2000 dollar gun, well, thats a stupid statement, and deserves a response accordingly.
Agreed

Thats because different models from a same manufacturer will have differing levels of quality. Sig, Para, etc. all suffer from this same situation. You cant say that all models by a manufacturer are perfect, its just not true.

Thats why I said "There isn't a Gun company or Smith you can't find fault with as well as positive things. Be it customer service, fit and finish, price etc."

Brucev

01-16-2010, 06:36

Cheap is relative. For some folks... $500 is not much money. For others it's a week's pay. From my perspective, if now looking for a 1911, I'd think really hard before I bought a new Taurus at anything close to retail. There are many very good 1911 pistols on the market that are excellent choices for the same amount of money. After a good bit of looking around I recently bought a Springfield Mil Spec for $400 OTD. This pistol was bought in a retail shop! When bought it showed no signs of having fired more than a magazine of rounds. It was virtually new in every respect. It now has 500 trouble free rounds down the tube. If there is ever a problem, Springfield offers excellent customer service. If you are looking for a 1911, go slow... think about what you want in your pistol and what you want to do with it. Then shop for the pistol that will meet your needs. Don't let anyone's advertising hype or opinion drive your decision. When all is said and done, it's your money... buy what will best satisfy you. Sincerely. Brucev.

bac1023

01-16-2010, 20:37

Bac does seem inconsistent on his comments at times. Fusion is another company he has said positive things and other times he has said negative things about them. There isn't a Gun company or Smith you can't find fault with as well as positive things. Be it customer service, fit and finish, price etc.
If you like brand x gun or smith x built gun and like it and enjoy shooting it thats all that matters.

Actually, I'm very consistent. It depends one what you're comparing it to. I think Fusion compares well to most production 1911s, but when someone starts comparing them to Baer or Brown, that's when I blow the whistle.

Its all relative, if that makes sense.

bac1023

01-16-2010, 20:39

It seems every time BAC replies about PT1911 threads he hates the Taurus more and more. I remember he didn't have so much hate when I was asking about them a year ago. BAC, did you have some bad experience with yours. How many rounds do you have through yours?

My PT1911 had 200 or so rounds through it when the ambi safety fell off.

I don't hate them any more now than I did a year ago. However, when someone makes an idiotic comment about it being as good as a $2000+ 1911, I feel the need to respond in a strong fashion.

I've said many times that I thought the PT was overpriced and I've said many times that I thought RIA was a better quality gun and certainly a better value.

MD357

01-16-2010, 21:27

CHEAP!!! CHEAP????

Look at all the Gold Fools!!!

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/images/D11/59/59346.jpg

bac1023

01-16-2010, 21:28

:rofl:

I've seen that pic many times, but its still as shocking as the first time I laid eyes on it. :shocked:

Its amazing to me what some people will spend money on.

doolyd

01-16-2010, 22:17

Mine PT1911 had 200 or so rounds through it when the ambi safety fell off.

I don't hate them any more now than I did a year ago. However, when someone makes an idiotic comment about it being as good as a $2000+ 1911, I feel the need to respond in a strong fashion.

I've said many times that I thought the PT was overpriced and I've said many times that I thought RIA was a better quality gun and certainly a better value.

I had to go back and see who in the world would say the PT1911 was as good as a $2000 + 1911, yep they did. :shocked:

I would agree with you on your assessment. My ambi safety did come apart but it happened when I was changing my grips. I put it back together and haven't had any issues with it for about 900 rounds although I know Taurus does have issues with them, easy to replace.

My only point is that I guess as long as a gun is accurate and reliable I don't consider it a piece of crap even if fit and finish isn't quite there, more finish since mine at least is pretty good fit wise.

We will see though how long it will last but thus far I think it is a good deal if you can find one for under $550 or even better if under $500.

Since they are pushing in some places over $600 I would rather save another 400 and get a Dan Wesson CBOB. Man is that pistol everything everyone has said. :cool:

bac1023

01-16-2010, 22:24

My only point is that I guess as long as a gun is accurate and reliable I don't consider it a piece of crap even if fit and finish isn't quite there, more finish since mine at least is pretty good fit wise.

Well, a $600 1911 with very poor fit and finish, cheaply done "features", and terrible customer service is junk in my book. :)

YMMV

ilgunguygt

01-16-2010, 22:36

Well, a $600 1911 with very poor fit and finish, cheaply done "features", and terrible customer service is junk in my book. :)

YMMV
:thumbsup: Couldn't have said it better myself.

GVFlyer

01-16-2010, 22:55

:rofl:

I've seen that pic many times, but its still as shocking as the first time I laid eyes on it. :shocked:

Yeah, I don't like them either, but at least they're quality guns underneath all that ugly bling. :rofl:

.

CAcop

01-16-2010, 23:28

The "custom parts" list is what hacks me off about the gun. When you sell a 1911 it is going to have certain parts on it. Like a grip safety. Now you can put a GI or beavertail grip safety on it. Both parts are probably going to cost you about the same. Maybe a little more for the beavertail because of a little bit more machining but not a whole lot more. Now Taurus seems to think if you put a beavertail safety on a gun it is suddenly as good as a Wilson.

They are overhyping it.

bac1023

01-16-2010, 23:38

The "custom parts" list is what hacks me off about the gun. When you sell a 1911 it is going to have certain parts on it. Like a grip safety. Now you can put a GI or beavertail grip safety on it. Both parts are probably going to cost you about the same. Maybe a little more for the beavertail because of a little bit more machining but not a whole lot more. Now Taurus seems to think if you put a beavertail safety on a gun it is suddenly as good as a Wilson.

They are overhyping it.

Taurus preys on the ignorance of their customers.

doolyd

01-17-2010, 09:18

Well, a $600 1911 with very poor fit and finish, cheaply done "features", and terrible customer service is junk in my book. :)

YMMV

Ok, I guess difference in opinion. I buy shooters and if it performs well it's not junk. Now if you are looking for pretty guns that you can post pictures of every week on Glock Talk, yes you have me beat. :tongueout:

bac1023

01-17-2010, 09:46

Ok, I guess difference in opinion. I buy shooters and if it performs well it's not junk. Now if you are looking for pretty guns that you can post pictures of every week on Glock Talk, yes you have me beat. :tongueout:

Its nothing to do with being pretty.

Hell, my Norinco may be the ugliest 1911 I own, but its done well.

I'm not talking about appearance. I'm talking about quality. For $600+, the customer deserves better quality than what Taurus puts out. This day and age, being reliable should almost be a given, in my opinion.

FLIPPER 348

01-17-2010, 10:39

'cept for having trouble with your ambi-safety, I thought your PT1911 was quite reliable.

bac1023

01-17-2010, 10:44

'cept for having trouble with your ambi-safety, I thought your PT1911 was quite reliable.

It has been 100% reliable.

That's why I mentioned that reliability should almost be a given. There's more to handgun quality then just being reliable.

Besides the safety, I don't like the trigger, finish, or "checkering" either. :tongueout:

ilgunguygt

01-17-2010, 11:24

Actually, I like the checkering so much on the taurus that I bought a set of the tools from them to checker my other 1911s. I am not supposed to show it online, but here you guys go:

So,....it's an UN-reliable PIG! Thanks for clearing that up for me! :rofl:

a_tack

01-17-2010, 11:48

got the chance to shoot a PT1911 alongside my kimber. The only problem the taurus had was the inability to feed JHP's out of the box. My kimber fed them fine. After 100 rounds or so the taurus improved its ability to feed JHP's. The kimber was more accurate, but the taurus wasn't too shabby. My opinion is this: It is in a price range where it isn't worth it. You can Get a Taurus for $550-650. For $699 you can get a Kimber Custom II and for $450 you can get a Citadel or RIA. It just doesnt make sense to me to buy the taurus when the Citadel has the same features for $100 less and the Kimber has the same features for $49 more. I liked the PT1911 when I got to shoot it, but it didn't seem like a logical purchase to me. I would buy one if they were $400-450 as they should be. Now, my buddy (who owns the pt1911 I got to shoot) only paid $500 for it new. I think he preobably got his moneys worth. However, I feel that my Springfield GI was a much better built handgun for the same price.

bac1023

01-17-2010, 12:11

Actually, I like the checkering so much on the taurus that I bought a set of the tools from them to checker my other 1911s. I am not supposed to show it online, but here you guys go:

:rofl:

MD357

01-17-2010, 12:13

Actually, I like the checkering so much on the taurus that I bought a set of the tools from them to checker my other 1911s. I am not supposed to show it online, but here you guys go:

They used to be that price and that's when I got one. I would not pay what they cost now but they still sell quite well 'round these parts. Taurus has expanded the PT 1911 line with several options.

bac1023

01-17-2010, 14:46

They used to be that price and that's when I got one. I would not pay what they cost now but they still sell quite well 'round these parts. Taurus has expanded the PT 1911 line with several options.

That's my whole point. They're overpriced for what you get.

FLIPPER 348

01-17-2010, 16:06

I thought you said they were junk??

bac1023

01-17-2010, 16:08

I thought you said they were junk??

The parts fitting is junk. The checkering is a joke.

a_tack

01-17-2010, 16:15

I might even be willing to give $500 for one....

FLIPPER 348

01-17-2010, 16:22

The parts fitting is junk. The checkering is a joke.

But yours seems to work just fine. How many rounds do you have downrange??

bac1023

01-17-2010, 16:33

But yours seems to work just fine. How many rounds do you have downrange??

A few hundred.

Yes, it works fine, but its cheaply fitted.

I'm talking small parts, as in the safety. I also don't care for the trigger. YMMV.

PlasticGuy

01-17-2010, 17:05

So,....it's an UN-reliable PIG! Thanks for clearing that up for me! :rofl:
That's exactly what I meant, and you're welcome. :supergrin:

FLIPPER 348

01-17-2010, 18:20

Ok,....guess I've misunderstood.

So,....it's an UN-reliable PIG! Thanks for clearing that up for me! :rofl:

Trouble with the ambi safety and complaints about the finish and the checkering are the standard. It's not often you hear of one not functioning well. I ran 1000 or so trouble free rounds through mine before selling it to a friend. I swapped out the ambi for a standard safety right away.

ilgunguygt

01-17-2010, 19:46

But yours seems to work just fine. How many rounds do you have downrange??
Back in the 80s when everyone was broke my dad drove a Chevy Citation. It was a piece of crap. Looked like hell(bad finish), was uncomfortable, full of rattles and squeeks(poor fitment), but it ran like a top. Would you rather have a citation or a caprice classic? Just because it was reliable doesnt change the fact that its a piece of crap.

MD357

01-17-2010, 20:20

Trouble with the ambi safety and complaints about the finish and the checkering are the standard. It's not often you hear of one not functioning well. I ran 1000 or so trouble free rounds through mine before selling it to a friend. I swapped out the ambi for a standard safety right away.

I've seen more ejectors sheared off on a Taurus than any other 1911 platform. One of our local smiths has fixed three of them. He's also had to replace that goofy hammer with the lawyer lock on one because it turned it into a single shot.

bac1023

01-17-2010, 20:25

Trouble with the ambi safety and complaints about the finish and the checkering are the standard. It's not often you hear of one not functioning well. I ran 1000 or so trouble free rounds through mine before selling it to a friend. I swapped out the ambi for a standard safety right away.

OK, but is that acceptable for a $600+ 1911, when you can get a $400 1911 that runs just as good without a safety problem?

FLIPPER 348

01-17-2010, 20:52

OK, but is that acceptable for a $600+ 1911, ?

hmm, I seem to remember a few posts back saying the PT was not a good value at the current higher price. I paid $418 for mine NIB, you??

bac1023

01-17-2010, 21:06

hmm, I seem to remember a few posts back saying the PT was not a good value at the current higher price. I paid $418 for mine NIB, you??

$500 :upeyes:

Frankly, I wouldn't like it at $400, however, it would be more inline with the quality you're getting.

FLIPPER 348

01-17-2010, 21:20

...then why did you buy it?

bac1023

01-17-2010, 21:48

...then why did you buy it?

To test it out.

I didn't have an opinion about it before I bought one.

I am a collector, after all.

ithaca_deerslayer

01-19-2010, 09:13

I like this thread. I read it. And then I went out and bought a Taurus PT1911 ALR :)

And paid $800 for it too.

Why? I wasn't looking for a Taurus. Remember, I had read this thread. And had read others like it. And wasn't looking for aluminum. And wasn't looking for an ILS. And wasn't looking for a rail. And wasn't even asking to look at that particular 1911, as I was looking at the other brands.

But, I was in the gun shop, and the guy offered, so I picked it up, and worked the slide, and worked the safety, and worked the mag, and dry fired it, and held it, and felt the beaver tail, and felt the grip-safety surely depress. And thought about the flat grip. And looked at the sights.

And it all felt right. I shrugged my shoulders on the ILS. And I thought of uses for the rail. And I liked the light weight. And I liked the trigger. And I liked the way it aimed. And I liked all the checkering, front, back, and sides, and how it firmly held in my grip.

And it was a package, with 4 8-round mags, a kydex paddle holster, and a double mag holder. And I knew, no matter what I bought, I was going to get extra mags and a holster anyway, so I valued that stuff at $100. So I was looking at a $700 gun. I definitely liked the beaver tail and the 3 dot sights, and the checkering all the way around the grip, and I liked the flat grip.

I mentally searched my data banks, and couldn't see what comparable gun I could find, get shipped into NYS, with those features I liked, get the required test firing shells (which the gun dealer is required to send to NYS police in order to sell the gun), and get it all out the door for $700.

And I thought to mself, this gun, right now in my hand feels perfect! I liked it very much.

I also know that EVERY gun I've researched, I've found negative postings about it. About over paying for a name, about crap manufacturing, about crap parts, about crap safety designs, about broken this and broken that, about things falling off, about jamming, about not feeding certain kinds of ammo, etc. About crappy customer service. So, it seems no matter the brand, it is a crap shoot.

Now, the question will become, how does it shoot? How reliable is it? Will it feed all ammo? I can't answer those questions yet. I'll post a range report in a couple weeks. :)

doolyd

01-19-2010, 11:33

[QUOTE= get the required test firing shells (which the gun dealer is required to send to NYS police in order to sell the gun),[/QUOTE]

Wow that is scary.

ithaca_deerslayer

01-19-2010, 11:49

Wow that is scary.

Yeah, but I can't be a criminal, so I follow the law. It made it difficult to buy a new Thompson Encore. I tried to get a few gun shops to order them. Some guys told me straight out, they wouldn't do it, because they or their dealers couldn't get them already NYS test fired. Some other gun shop strung me out for a freaking YEAR, and still no new Encore arrived.

So, when I found a used one in a shop, I got it. (Actually a Contender, but close enough).

So, in general, a handgun for sale in a NYS gunshop beats a handgun listed on a Kentucky website. :rofl:

PPP

01-19-2010, 12:00

No dog in the race. I don't really care if you like the taurus or not just typing to provide my experience to those who are trying to gather info.

I do have a PT1911 that I picked up a couple of years ago for a little over 400. (Blued/Steel/No rail) It has never failed. Truthfully, I've only put a little more than 1,000 rounds through it so I guess something could go wrong. My friend has one that he competes with that has many more rounds through it with out a problem. As it is it shoots well. I have heard both "wonder stories" and "horror stories" about this gun. Traditionally I've not been a taurus fan. I question if perhaps quality control is the issue? Maybe there are both good ones and bad ones out there. I will say that I like mine and don't plan to get rid of it; though my local gun smith is getting rid of the hammer (replacing the hammer, sear, and springs) because I have never liked the lock.

I'm under no illusion that it competes with custom guns. I've shot very expensive 1911s and inexpensive 1911s like the RIA mentioned here. I wouldn't trade mine for a RIA (nothing against them).

bac1023

01-19-2010, 19:24

Well, all I can say is good luck with it.

Hopefully, you got a good one and for that price, you better have. :faint:

M1A Shooter

01-19-2010, 19:26

for that price, id have gone with a SA Loaded. hope youre happy with it.

SouthpawShootr

01-19-2010, 20:49

I honestly hope it performs for you. I really do.

But my goodness....:wow:..........$800? :faint:

bac1023

01-19-2010, 20:57

for that price, id have gone with a SA Loaded. hope youre happy with it.

I would have gone Kimber Custom II or Smith SW1911.

M1A Shooter

01-19-2010, 21:56

I would have gone Kimber Custom II or Smith SW1911.

i know Kimber Custom IIs are decent as well. it was my first 1911 but i had several problems with it and ive been shy of Kimber since, dumb i know but i love my Springfields.

MD357

01-20-2010, 00:24

And paid $800 for it too.

For a Taurus?? :faint:Lemme guess..... there was 5 $100 bills stuffed in the chamber?

ithaca_deerslayer

01-20-2010, 09:13

for that price, id have gone with a SA Loaded. hope youre happy with it.

I don't think I could get a SA Loaded with 4 mags and a holster for $800. Do they have the front checkering on the grip? Pretty sure it doesn't have the rail. Don't think they are aluminum either.

It might be a better gun, I don't know. But I read of stuff falling off the SA Loaded. In fact, for any gun out there, I've read of the lemons. Probably the least lemon guns I know of by reputation are Glock (except 30SF and 36), and Beretta 92.

I've even talked to people who have had crap Colts, and would never buy another one. And people who's Kimbers spend more time back at the factory than in their hands.

Oh, I know for sure that based on internet reputation I'm taking a gamble with the Taurus. But if it works, it's got all the features (except for the ILS lock) that I like.

And if it doesn't work, the 2 most commonly reported problems are:
1. The safety falling off
2. The hammer locking up, or not working right, possibly due crap problems between the hammer and sear.

If either of those 2 problems happen, I won't send it back to the factory. Instead, I'll pay a gunsmith to put in a non-ambidextrous safety, and a non-ILS hammer with a new sear.

Other than those 2 issues, the vast majority of internet talk reports the Taurus as being very tight and accurate and reliable in feeding ammunition (some saying a problem with 8 round mags solved by loading only to 7). Some saying the gun doesn't feed some hollow points too well, but others saying it feeds anything. Everybody saying it feeds ball.

sns3guppy

01-20-2010, 10:38

As long as you're happy with the purchase, that's all that really counts.

Your comments, however, are rather remarkable. After all, one wouldn't buy an airplane knowing the wings have a reputation of falling off or failing...with the idea that if they do, you'll just get a mechanic to put on a better set. Never the less, you're willing to buy a firearm upon which your life might depend, and use the same rationale.

Whatever. Best of luck.

MD357

01-20-2010, 10:54

I don't think I could get a SA Loaded with 4 mags and a holster for $800. Do they have the front checkering on the grip? Pretty sure it doesn't have the rail. Don't think they are aluminum either.

You could have gotten a loaded operator for $150ish more and had a SIGNIFICANTLY nicer gun with real night sights. :supergrin: Not to mention IF you did have a lemon SA would take care of you quick fast and in a hurrry.

If anything is out of spec on your Taurus, and they are well KNOWN for tolerance stacking gone bad, then you will be without your 1911 for quite some time. Surely if you've done your homework, you would have seen the horror stories of Taurus' customer service.

Descendant

01-20-2010, 10:56

There are some very interesting comments in this thread. I say congrats on your 1911 given the difficulties of living in an unfriendly gun state.

Some people swear by their Kimber; but yet, I have read just as many negative comments about their reliability as I have Taurus 1911's. "My ***** 1911 was full of MIM, a jam-o-matic, will never own another one", etc. Insert your least favorite brand.

I am surprised how many people carry a Kimber for ccw when there are so many other options.

I had a Ford Ranger, it kept breaking. I'll never own another. I am very happy with my Tacoma. Same thing with guns. When you get a bad one it kind of sours you for life on that brand. YMMV.

ithaca_deerslayer

01-20-2010, 12:08

As long as you're happy with the purchase, that's all that really counts.

Your comments, however, are rather remarkable. After all, one wouldn't buy an airplane knowing the wings have a reputation of falling off or failing...with the idea that if they do, you'll just get a mechanic to put on a better set. Never the less, you're willing to buy a firearm upon which your life might depend, and use the same rationale.

Whatever. Best of luck.

Thanks :)

My carry guns are:
1. Glock 26 9mm
2. S&W 642 .38
3. Beretta 92FS 9mm

The 1911 is not likely to be my carry gun. It is also only my 29th gun. So, the 1911 platform was pretty low on my list of "needs" before I got around to buying one.

I just wanted to buy a 1911. If it seems reliable, I could potentially use it as a carry gun.

Aren't all ambidextrous safeties on all 1911s (regardless of brand) a potential weak point? I don't plan on it falling off, but if it did, I'd have it replaced with a non-ambidextrous safety.

The only real "problem" with the Taurus is the ILS hammer. If I don't carry it, then it doesn't matter. If it works well, then it doesn't matter. The Springfield has an ILS, and so does S&W. For my carry revolver, I jumped on a non-ILS S&W, because I prefer not to have ILS for a carry gun. But lots of people carry S&W with ILS. I've got another S&W that is ILS, but I've never had any problem with it.

ithaca_deerslayer

01-20-2010, 12:15

You could have gotten a loaded operator for $150ish more and had a SIGNIFICANTLY nicer gun with real night sights. :supergrin: Not to mention IF you did have a lemon SA would take care of you quick fast and in a hurrry.

If anything is out of spec on your Taurus, and they are well KNOWN for tolerance stacking gone bad, then you will be without your 1911 for quite some time. Surely if you've done your homework, you would have seen the horror stories of Taurus' customer service.

It's always the case that if you spend a little more, you can get a little more. You have to draw the line somewhere. For another $150, I probably would have said, for another $150 I could have gotten a nice Colt in a format I liked.

I'm going into this well informed by the internet. But sometimes, you gotta go agaisnt the flow, against your internet peer pressure. There was a nice gun, in the package I liked, and I bought it.

I didn't say, "Gee, it's a Taurus, and my internet friends don't like Taurus, so I better by a similar priced 1911 without the features I like, or else spend more money to get a brand name they'd approve of."

Nope, instead, I bought it. And good or bad, I'll tell you how it goes :)

ithaca_deerslayer

01-20-2010, 12:25

There are some very interesting comments in this thread. I say congrats on your 1911 given the difficulties of living in an unfriendly gun state.

Some people swear by their Kimber; but yet, I have read just as many negative comments about their reliability as I have Taurus 1911's. "My ***** 1911 was full of MIM, a jam-o-matic, will never own another one", etc. Insert your least favorite brand.

I am surprised how many people carry a Kimber for ccw when there are so many other options.

I had a Ford Ranger, it kept breaking. I'll never own another. I am very happy with my Tacoma. Same thing with guns. When you get a bad one it kind of sours you for life on that brand. YMMV.

It certainly is an interesting thread.

I'm not here to defend Taurus. I encouraged my wife to buy a Ruger .357 instead of a Taurus one. It cost more money, but I wanted her to have the best. Based on reputation and design, I think a Ruger revolver is better than Taurus.

Similar with 1911s, people have reasons for prefering Colt or Kimber or Springfield or Rock Island or Para or etc over Taurus. That's all fair.

For me, when I held the Taurus, it felt right. I don't need the gun, I just wanted it. So I bought it. If it turns out a good gun, I'll feel good about it. If it turns out a bad gun, then I'll either fix it right or get rid of it, and buy a different brand.

I'm not planning on it having problems. I'm just saying, if it does have problems then I'll address that.

But isn't it the same no matter the brand? If I spent more money on a comparable Colt or Springfield, what certainty do I have that it would work good? If I have to send something back to customer service, then I'm already dissapointed. Having good customer service for repairs shouldn't be a selling point. I don't want to have to ship a gun off anywhere.

After all, in the "best guns for under $1000" thread, some people have suggested the Taurus. They evidentally liked their's. :)

MD357

01-20-2010, 23:54

It's always the case that if you spend a little more, you can get a little more. You have to draw the line somewhere. For another $150, I probably would have said, for another $150 I could have gotten a nice Colt in a format I liked.

It's really not that ambiguous. Basically some platforms are more overpriced than others.

I'm going into this well informed by the internet. But sometimes, you gotta go agaisnt the flow, against your internet peer pressure. There was a nice gun, in the package I liked, and I bought it.

This really has nothing to do with internet peer pressure. Most people that have significant experience with 1911 learn the differences in quality, you can believe them or not. Now if this is your 29th handgun and you're not going to carry it etc.... you'll probably never notice. Most Taurus owners don't really shoot enough rounds to expose it from what I've seen.

Having good customer service for repairs shouldn't be a selling point.

There's no logic in this statement. Would you buy a new car if you knew it to have bad warranty? Rather, It should be a selling point, and it is to most logical people. Every platform has problems due to humans being involved. Some more than others obviously. I mean do you want a company that will have the nuts to address and issue OR just kind of sweep it under the rug like Glock and issue free "upgrades."

bac1023

01-21-2010, 00:08

After all, in the "best guns for under $1000" thread, some people have suggested the Taurus. They evidentally liked their's. :)

I hate to say it, but anyone who actually thinks the Taurus PT1911 is the best 1911 under $1000 has very little experience with the different 1911 models in that price range.

If someone REALLY loves the PT1911, I could see them saying its the best at $600, but the best under a grand sounds like lunacy. I'd be very curious to learn what experience those people had under their belt.

ithaca_deerslayer

01-21-2010, 08:37

This really has nothing to do with internet peer pressure. Most people that have significant experience with 1911 learn the differences in quality, you can believe them or not. Now if this is your 29th handgun and you're not going to carry it etc.... you'll probably never notice. Most Taurus owners don't really shoot enough rounds to expose it from what I've seen.

I have no experience with the 1911. I've shot 2 of them a couple times, and that's it.

I'm probably dumb, and don't know anything about the internals of guns. On the external, the Taurus looks good, has nice features, feels good, points good.

Maybe the inside is all crap parts.

The "Taurus owners don't really shoot enough rounds to expose it" comment is interesting. How many rounds does it take to prove a gun? You are basically saying: Taurus is crap, and if a Taurus owner likes their gun then they just aren't shooting it enough to expose the crap.

Man, there is a lot of HATRED against Taurus in this thread. I'm buying the gun and giving it a chance.

Would it help to point out I'm a Buffalo Bills fan, too? They lost 4 super bowls. My other favorite team is the Vikings. They lost 4 super bowls, too.

Now do you see why I'm buying a Taurus? I fail to recognize quality and refuse to root for the Dallas Cowboys even when they are the better team :rofl:

ithaca_deerslayer

01-21-2010, 08:40

I hate to say it, but anyone who actually thinks the Taurus PT1911 is the best 1911 under $1000 has very little experience with the different 1911 models in that price range.

If someone REALLY loves the PT1911, I could see them saying its the best at $600, but the best under a grand sounds like lunacy. I'd be very curious to learn what experience those people had under their belt.

Well, technically, I'm not sure if they thought it was the best under $1000, or under $850. I had started a thread asking about under $850, but then the moderator merged it in with the $1000 thread.

mesteve2

01-21-2010, 09:11

I would take an RIA 1911 over taurus

The best is the RIA 1911's.

They just need some 8 round mags and are great to go.:wow:

bac1023

01-21-2010, 09:12

Man, there is a lot of HATRED against Taurus in this thread.

Its not just this thread.

Taurus brings on these reactions themselves.

I'm not saying their designs or ideas are always bad. In fact, at times I give them kudos for bringing new ideas to the market, as goofy as some may be.

The main problems are their quality control and lack of customer service to back it up.

I hope you get a good one. If you do, you'll probably love it. If not, well, don't say we didn't warn you. ;)

ithaca_deerslayer

01-21-2010, 09:26

Its not just this thread.

Taurus brings on these reactions themselves.

I'm not saying their designs or ideas are always bad. In fact, at times I give them kudos for bringing new ideas to the market, as goofy as some may be.

The main problems are their quality control and lack of customer service to back it up.

I hope you get a good one. If you do, you'll probably love it. If not, well, don't say we didn't warn you. ;)

Yes, I've been duly warned :)

But also, if I do get a good one, I will not jump on a Taurus bandwagon and say how great they are. I will however, just point out how mine works (or doesn't work), as well as point out that every brand has detractors.

bac1023

01-21-2010, 09:46

Yes, I've been duly warned :)

But also, if I do get a good one, I will not jump on a Taurus bandwagon and say how great they are. I will however, just point out how mine works (or doesn't work), as well as point out that every brand has detractors.

Sounds like a plan.

Good luck with it. :wavey:

sns3guppy

01-21-2010, 10:52

How many rounds does it take to prove a gun?

A thousand trouble-free rounds is a good starting point.

I'm going into this well informed by the internet.

Please tell me that was a joke.

ithaca_deerslayer

01-21-2010, 11:15

Please tell me that was a joke.

Why would it be a joke?

Many internet guys think the Taurus is crap. Some internet guys like their Taurus.

I've read all that, so I've been informed by the internet.

sns3guppy

01-21-2010, 12:49

I'm going into this well informed by the internet.

I've read all that, so I've been informed by the internet.

I can't think of much else that you could say that would be more embarassing to you.

Well informed by the internet is a little like being well trained by the Mrs. Simpson's Third Grade class, or well educated by Joe on sixth and main.

Well informed by the internet. Fantastic. At least you didn't set your sights too high.

MD357

01-21-2010, 13:58

I have no experience with the 1911. I've shot 2 of them a couple times, and that's it.

This makes sense. Taurus targets newbies that just don't know any better. Hence their previous marketing ads of $2000 custom rolled into a $500 1911. :cool:

The "Taurus owners don't really shoot enough rounds to expose it" comment is interesting. How many rounds does it take to prove a gun? You are basically saying: Taurus is crap, and if a Taurus owner likes their gun then they just aren't shooting it enough to expose the crap.

My comment stands that a lot of Taurus owners I have come in contact with personally, don't really shoot their guns. The platform itself is not well built to sustain a high round count, especially in terms of internals.

Maybe the inside is all crap parts.

True. That and they can't fit a safety. :whistling:

Man, there is a lot of HATRED against Taurus in this thread. I'm buying the gun and giving it a chance.

Hate? Not really that emotional about it. I'm more interested in the facts. Rather, that I can take apart several guns in the $800 price range and show that they are a better built gun. Or even at $600 range. :supergrin:

ithaca_deerslayer

01-21-2010, 14:13

I can't think of much else that you could say that would be more embarassing to you.

Well informed by the internet is a little like being well trained by the Mrs. Simpson's Third Grade class, or well educated by Joe on sixth and main.

Well informed by the internet. Fantastic. At least you didn't set your sights too high.

Why would it be embarassing?

I'm clearly saying I don't have experience with the 1911. All I know is what I've read and talked to others about. Much of that has been done through the internet. Some of it in person with gun club guys. Some of it with books off the internet. But still, most of it from the internet.

Where am I supposed to get the knowledge you value? By actually buying a 1911 and trying it? That's what I'm doing. I chose a Taurus to start with. It is less expensive than any other 1911s I've seen in gunshops, aside from the Rock Island base model.

I looked at and held the Rock Island, and I personally did not like it. Maybe it is a better gun, maybe the insides are quality, but I can't tell that. On the outside, it seemed like crap. The grip safety didn't fit me well, and didn't depress evenly. The grip itself is slippery. I didn't like the sights. I didn't like the trigger. Overall fit and finish seemed pretty rough. And this is based on looking at them at 2 different gunshops. They might be great guns, I don't know. But at $500 compared to the $700 for the Taurus, the Taurus seemed much better. I'm paying $800 overall but that includes the holster, mag holder, and 4 mags (which collectively I'm valuing at $100, and I would buy separately anyway for that much).

Edited to add:
I don't mean that I am well informed in general about the 1911. I'm not. Instead I meant that I'm informed to the extent that the internet can provide; that I've read a lot about these issues.

doolyd

01-21-2010, 14:41

My comment stands that a lot of Taurus owners I have come in contact with personally, don't really shoot their guns. The platform itself is not well built to sustain a high round count, especially in terms of internals.

True. That and they can't fit a safety. :whistling:

That is just stupid.

1000 Round Torture Test with PT1911

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx7HYgTWAsg&feature=related

Ian

01-21-2010, 15:16

Just watching this video, and I have already lost count of the number of failures he has had:wow:

doolyd

01-21-2010, 16:33

Just watching this video, and I have already lost count of the number of failures he has had:wow:

The malfunctions were caused by the reloads, they were hard primers, i guess a change in mainspring or primers would have fixed it.Tests were done in Iloilo, Philippines

Ian

01-21-2010, 16:36

Thanks, I wasn't sure what was going on, as I don't have any sound.
Kind of weird testing with reloads.

ilgunguygt

01-21-2010, 19:21

The malfunctions were caused by the reloads, they were hard primers, i guess a change in mainspring or primers would have fixed it.Tests were done in Iloilo, Philippines
Sure they were. Those "hard primers" totally invalidate the test, IMO.

I think the point is nothing really broke. Crappy safety didn't come apart, hammer didn't lock up and it ran 1000 rounds.

I have a feeling some of it was due to the shooter, you try holding that gun after a few hundred continuous rounds. That sucker was hot, you should see the pics of the blisters on his hand so I think trying to reload mags and what not was difficult and causing some of the failures (He is no Todd Jarrett)

Do I pay much merit on these "Torture Test" not really but the point is.... You guys said 1000 rounds so there you go.

Only issues were a little melting of the cheapo plastic grips.

Brian Brazier

01-21-2010, 21:40

If you like it more power to you, I got one when they first came out, had nothing but issues, safety fell off, machine marks galore, everything was out of spec including all the cocking serrations being different depths, FTF's FTE's, ended up trading it in to the store I bought it from (they were well informed of the problems) for $250, best decision I ever made. There are plenty of good 1911's under $600 out there, but in my experience the Taurus ain't one of them.

Brian Brazier

01-21-2010, 21:56

Where am I supposed to get the knowledge you value? By actually buying a 1911 and trying it? That's what I'm doing. I chose a Taurus to start with. It is less expensive than any other 1911s I've seen in gunshops, aside from the Rock Island base model.

I looked at and held the Rock Island, and I personally did not like it. Maybe it is a better gun, maybe the insides are quality, but I can't tell that. On the outside, it seemed like crap. The grip safety didn't fit me well, and didn't depress evenly. The grip itself is slippery. I didn't like the sights. I didn't like the trigger. Overall fit and finish seemed pretty rough. And this is based on looking at them at 2 different gunshops. They might be great guns, I don't know. But at $500 compared to the $700 for the Taurus, the Taurus seemed much better. I'm paying $800 overall but that includes the holster, mag holder, and 4 mags (which collectively I'm valuing at $100, and I would buy separately anyway for that much).

There are allot of great choices under $600 that aren't Rock Island, Springfield Mil Spec and GI, Para GI Expert, Firestorm Dlx, Auto Ordnance, Norinco, Citadel, High Standard, I am sure there are more I just cant think of any off the top of my head. The thing about 1911's is, grips and sights are relatively easy changes so most buyers don't dwell on those things, quality and reliability is first and foremost, and IMO and from my experience the Taurus just doesn't stack up.

ilgunguygt

01-21-2010, 22:24

I think the point is nothing really broke. Crappy safety didn't come apart, hammer didn't lock up and it ran 1000 rounds.

I have a feeling some of it was due to the shooter, you try holding that gun after a few hundred continuous rounds. That sucker was hot, you should see the pics of the blisters on his hand so I think trying to reload mags and what not was difficult and causing some of the failures (He is no Todd Jarrett)

Do I pay much merit on these "Torture Test" not really but the point is.... You guys said 1000 rounds so there you go.

Only issues were a little melting of the cheapo plastic grips.

So, those of us who bought one, and had a POS opinions are trumped by a youtube vid? Come on, give me a break. When I bought my RIA I considered it my first 1911, didnt even count the taurus. But its nice to know thats all in my head because of this youtube video.

I would rather spend less and get a Springfield Milspec. Might not have all the bells and whistles but quality-wise it will be 10x better than a Taurus. For 50 or 60 bucks you can prolly get a drop in beavertial and extended thumb safety and it will only cost a few bucks more than that poor excuse for a 1911.

sns3guppy

01-21-2010, 23:47

1000 Round Torture Test with PT1911

A thousand rounds is a "torture test?" Funny.

If the firearm can't go a thousand rounds without a malfunction, then it's not worth table salt.

Torture tests, incidentally, involve excessive shooting under demanding conditions, often with fouling or other challenging factors used to see how the weapon will handle water, snow, dirt, mud, grit, various ammunition, different shooting techniques or positions, etc. Simply shooting the weapon had better not be a torture test...especially just at a thousand rounds.

Torture test...nice try.

bac1023

01-22-2010, 04:36

This thread is a riot. :rofl:

faawrenchbndr

01-22-2010, 06:15

It's a :pig:

...... :laughabove:

Ian

01-22-2010, 08:21

If the firearm can't go a thousand rounds without a malfunction, then it's not worth table salt.

I agree.
This test just proves this firearm is a POS!

M4J0R T0M

01-22-2010, 20:19

I've got one and I even like it. Got it after Christmas this year and fit and finish are very good. As good as any of the RIA's that I compared it to. Plus it does have some nice features. I guess I just got lucky and got a nice one. Mine has about 300-350 with no malfunctions right out of the box which is more than some of you can say about your "top shelf" 1911's. Not trying to start a war, just saying that my gun is reliable and put together well. I really like it for the price.

To answer the OP's question, be careful before you purchase one. It seems there are far more sub par examples then ones like mine.

JMag

01-22-2010, 20:47

I think it would just wear out quicker.

:)

MD357

01-23-2010, 00:09

That is just stupid.

1000 Round Torture Test with PT1911

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx7HYgTWAsg&feature=related

It's not stupid it's experience. Anyone that thinks 1,000 is a lot.... doesn't shoot much. Do you know how many rounds the first 1911s went through in their "torture tests?" My points remain. In fact it's laughable to think that this proves anything. I'll betcha I could cherry pick a Hi-point to go 1K rounds too. :supergrin:

PlasticGuy

01-23-2010, 08:55

I think the point is nothing really broke. Crappy safety didn't come apart, hammer didn't lock up and it ran 1000 rounds...
So your big selling point on the Taurus is that the only thing wrong with it is that it had a whole lot of malfunctions? How is that a good thing?

And for the record, I had a Taurus 1911 ILS fail and tie up the gun in my hands. I wasn't even shooting it at the time, but just cycling the action. It's no rumor.

ilgunguygt

01-23-2010, 14:03

So your big selling point on the Taurus is that the only thing wrong with it is that it had a whole lot of malfunctions? How is that a good thing?

And for the record, I had a Taurus 1911 ILS fail and tie up the gun in my hands. I wasn't even shooting it at the time, but just cycling the action. It's no rumor.
Impossible. That 1000 round(910 if you account for the MALFUNCTIONS) proved that all personal experiences related on the web are simply people spreading rumors malicously.:rofl:

faawrenchbndr

01-23-2010, 14:54

Here's something I just thought about.

Is it really smart to trust your families lives to the lowest bidder? :dunno:

ithaca_deerslayer

01-25-2010, 11:11

Here's something I just thought about.

Is it really smart to trust your families lives to the lowest bidder? :dunno:

Isn't that what the government, and therefore the US Army, does all the time?

SouthpawShootr

01-25-2010, 18:58

Isn't that what the government, and therefore the US Army, does all the time?

Yeah, but the specifications in the RFPs usually insures the equipment will be decent, although I'm sure there have been exceptions.

sns3guppy

01-26-2010, 08:24

The Taurus 1911 will never be submitted for, and could never pass a military trial for reliability, nor is it milspec quality.

The Taurus 1911 won't get issues, sold to, or carried by our troops.

And no...the military does not buy from the lowest bidder. Bid is based on value, not necessarily price.

In that context, the Taurus certainly doesn't cut it.

doolyd

01-26-2010, 12:52

It's not stupid it's experience. Anyone that thinks 1,000 is a lot.... doesn't shoot much. Do you know how many rounds the first 1911s went through in their "torture tests?" My points remain. In fact it's laughable to think that this proves anything. I'll betcha I could cherry pick a Hi-point to go 1K rounds too. :supergrin:

I think a thousand rounds at one time is a lot. If you don't think so please go out and try it.

When you post Todd Jarrett doing it with a Para everyone says Wow cool, when it is a Taurus, man that thing is junk.

CAcop

01-26-2010, 12:57

Just watching this video, and I have already lost count of the number of failures he has had:wow:

Hard primers or not Todd Jarret did the same test with a Para and I can't remember any failures. And you know how people like to trash Para.

PlasticGuy

01-26-2010, 13:15

I think a thousand rounds at one time is a lot. If you don't think so please go out and try it.

When you post Todd Jarrett doing it with a Para everyone says Wow cool, when it is a Taurus, man that thing is junk.
Typically, the idea is to see if it can get through without parts breakage and with few or no malfunctions. It's not that there should have been more rounds fired, but that there were so many malfunctions that I got tired of counting. Blame it on ammo, mags, or little blue fairies, but the fact remains that the Taurus failed the test miserably.

Not so much when Jarrett did it.

faawrenchbndr

01-26-2010, 14:06

Wow,......could this thread surpass the "cardboard box" thread?!

doolyd

01-26-2010, 14:51

Typically, the idea is to see if it can get through without parts breakage and with few or no malfunctions. It's not that there should have been more rounds fired, but that there were so many malfunctions that I got tired of counting. Blame it on ammo, mags, or little blue fairies, but the fact remains that the Taurus failed the test miserably.

Not so much when Jarrett did it.

I guess we saw the same video but have two different perspectives.

Someone said they counted 10 malfunctions, out of 1000.

So by your definition, few malfunctions = PASS
No Breakage = PASS.

I don't see how you can say if failed miserably.

And I think if Jarrett did it there would probably be zero malfunctions....he is GOD isn't he? :tongueout:

MD357

01-26-2010, 14:52

I think a thousand rounds at one time is a lot. If you don't think so please go out and try it.

When you post Todd Jarrett doing it with a Para everyone says Wow cool, when it is a Taurus, man that thing is junk.

What does 1000 rounds in one sitting prove relative to 20-30K rounds over a period of time. These guns aren't built to last, which is my whole point, then again, most Taurus owners won't notice as they generally aren't used for anything remotely serious.

Paras aren't built much better. Too many proprietary issues.

doolyd

01-26-2010, 14:55

What does 1000 rounds in one sitting prove relative to 20-30K rounds over a period of time. These guns aren't built to last, which is my whole point. Paras aren't built much better. Too many proprietary issues.

I believe it was a comment about having about 500 rounds through a gun to call it trust worthy? Can't recall.

Please tell me why these aren't built to last? Is it because of the MIM, oh tell me your not one of them guys.

ithaca_deerslayer

01-26-2010, 15:29

What does 1000 rounds in one sitting prove relative to 20-30K rounds over a period of time. These guns aren't built to last, which is my whole point, then again, most Taurus owners won't notice as they generally aren't used for anything remotely serious.

Paras aren't built much better. Too many proprietary issues.

What is "serious" use of a gun?

If someone buys a gun, and tests 500 rounds through it, then carries it, and practises 150 rounds a year thereafter, isn't that serious?

The "serious" use would be the carry for self-defense. After 10 years, the gun would have 2,000 rounds.

Or are you talking about participating in a lot of shooting games as being "serious" use?

I don't know if the Taurus will hold up to 2,000 rounds or 2,000,000. But either way, what defines serious use?

doolyd

01-26-2010, 16:23

What is "serious" use of a gun?

If someone buys a gun, and tests 500 rounds through it, then carries it, and practises 150 rounds a year thereafter, isn't that serious?

The "serious" use would be the carry for self-defense. After 10 years, the gun would have 2,000 rounds.

Or are you talking about participating in a lot of shooting games as being "serious" use?

I don't know if the Taurus will hold up to 2,000 rounds or 2,000,000. But either way, what defines serious use?

:goodpost:

the swamp fox

01-26-2010, 16:36

What is "serious" use of a gun?

If someone buys a gun, and tests 500 rounds through it, then carries it, and practises 150 rounds a year thereafter, isn't that serious?

The "serious" use would be the carry for self-defense. After 10 years, the gun would have 2,000 rounds.

Or are you talking about participating in a lot of shooting games as being "serious" use?

I don't know if the Taurus will hold up to 2,000 rounds or 2,000,000. But either way, what defines serious use?
Self defense is indeed serious use.....not a bunch of goobs in Ralp Lauren shirts dinging paper and plates with the latest "my di$* is bigger than yours" brand. Just my HO.....

The Swamp Fox

cigarlover

01-26-2010, 16:42

HA-HA-HA

You poor ignorant slugs make me laugh. Stroll to a SA, Kimber, or Colt forum or any other mass produced custom 1911's. All have some guy with a new pistol that never made it to 1,000 rounds or even 3 without a malfunction. So I guess that makes all you guys A-Holes because you own a custom 1911 that couldn't pass a 1000 round test ? Any one can make a lemon. There is always the unlucky few that get a bad firearm from many a manufacturer. From HK to even our beloved Glock. Seen both fail during competitions by the way...

Now go run and tell that....

the swamp fox

01-26-2010, 17:45

:nutcheck:[Good postquote=cigarlover;14626062]HA-HA-HA

You poor ignorant slugs make me laugh. Stroll to a SA, Kimber, or Colt forum or any other mass produced custom 1911's. All have some guy with a new pistol that never made it to 1,000 rounds or even 3 without a malfunction. So I guess that makes all you guys A-Holes because you own a custom 1911 that couldn't pass a 1000 round test ? Any one can make a lemon. There is always the unlucky few that get a bad firearm from many a manufacturer. From HK to even our beloved Glock. Seen both fail during competitions by the way...

Now go run and tell that....[/quote]

faawrenchbndr

01-26-2010, 18:00

Right in the junk,...... good shot 'swamp fox! :thumbsup:

bac1023

01-26-2010, 18:40

Wow,......could this thread surpass the "cardboard box" thread?!

Its got a long ways to go. ;)

PlasticGuy

01-27-2010, 00:18

I guess we saw the same video but have two different perspectives.

Someone said they counted 10 malfunctions, out of 1000.

So by your definition, few malfunctions = PASS
No Breakage = PASS.

I don't see how you can say if failed miserably...
It seemed like more than 10, but let's say it was because I don't feel like watching it again. That would be an average of one malfunction every 100 rounds. Yes, that's a fail for a combat handgun.

FLIPPER 348

01-27-2010, 00:45

These guns aren't built to last, which is my whole point, then again, most Taurus owners won't notice as they generally aren't used for anything remotely serious.

...more condescending 1911 snob drivel. How would you know they are not 'built to last'!

ilgunguygt

01-27-2010, 01:00

I think a thousand rounds at one time is a lot. If you don't think so please go out and try it.

When you post Todd Jarrett doing it with a Para everyone says Wow cool, when it is a Taurus, man that thing is junk.

I guess we saw the same video but have two different perspectives.

Someone said they counted 10 malfunctions, out of 1000.

So by your definition, few malfunctions = PASS
No Breakage = PASS.

I don't see how you can say if failed miserably.

And I think if Jarrett did it there would probably be zero malfunctions....he is GOD isn't he? :tongueout:

I believe it was a comment about having about 500 rounds through a gun to call it trust worthy? Can't recall.

Please tell me why these aren't built to last? Is it because of the MIM, oh tell me your not one of them guys.

What is "serious" use of a gun?

If someone buys a gun, and tests 500 rounds through it, then carries it, and practises 150 rounds a year thereafter, isn't that serious?

The "serious" use would be the carry for self-defense. After 10 years, the gun would have 2,000 rounds.

Or are you talking about participating in a lot of shooting games as being "serious" use?

I don't know if the Taurus will hold up to 2,000 rounds or 2,000,000. But either way, what defines serious use?

HA-HA-HA

You poor ignorant slugs make me laugh. Stroll to a SA, Kimber, or Colt forum or any other mass produced custom 1911's. All have some guy with a new pistol that never made it to 1,000 rounds or even 3 without a malfunction. So I guess that makes all you guys A-Holes because you own a custom 1911 that couldn't pass a 1000 round test ? Any one can make a lemon. There is always the unlucky few that get a bad firearm from many a manufacturer. From HK to even our beloved Glock. Seen both fail during competitions by the way...

Now go run and tell that....

...more condescending 1911 snob drivel. How would you know they are not 'built to last'!
Some of you guys are funny, thats for sure.

Cigarlover, anyone can make a bad product, Taurus has perfected making a bad product. Then providing crappy support for it. Taurus could make the best gun in the world that makes its own ammunition from depleted uranium and could then sell it for 50 dollars and it could be the best product in the world. I would never know though, cause they have already screwed me once and will never see another dime of my momey

Flipper, whats condescending about not wanting to overpay for a low quality 1911? I own a RIA now and I consider it a way better gun than the taurus 1911 that i owned first. If taurus could learn how to make a reliable gun and procide something approaching semi decent customer service, then they might come close to being worth what they are getting for them now.

Im real sorry that some of you guys are getting defensive because you bought a low budget 1911 that advertised itself as a 2000 dollar custom, but get over it. Dont come here and try to blow smoke up the asses of people that know better. You can call a turd a diamond all day long, it wont make it shine any better.

ETA: I went ahead and watched the video again and counted 8 malfunctions(i may have missed one or double counted one, it was pretty boring) in the first half of the torture test (video one). Hard primers? The guy said they were using CCI, same as many of us do, and never have a problem. I even use them in revolvers with light springs. It looks like the hammer was following to the half cock position when it was malfunctioning. Surely not, as we all know there have been NO complaints about the hammers on these, right? ;)

HAIL CAESAR

01-27-2010, 03:10

I think a thousand rounds at one time is a lot. If you don't think so please go out and try it.

I have done that MANY times. That is a really big training day or a day that my carry or duty gun gets approval.

Any gun that won't go a grand in a row without a malfunction is a POS.

doolyd

01-27-2010, 08:33

I have done that MANY times. That is a really big training day or a day that my carry or duty gun gets approval.

Any gun that won't go a grand in a row without a malfunction is a POS.

I didn't mean a thousand rounds in a "big training day" I meant a thousand rounds as fast as you can shoot them. Imagine that gun getting smoking hot and trying to hold it without limp-wristing or loaded each magazine completely and see if you have any malfunctions, big man. :tongueout:

PlasticGuy

01-27-2010, 11:52

I didn't mean a thousand rounds in a "big training day" I meant a thousand rounds as fast as you can shoot them. Imagine that gun getting smoking hot and trying to hold it without limp-wristing or loaded each magazine completely and see if you have any malfunctions...
I agree that it's a tough test. That's why he did it. However, the problems you see there are not heat related. They appear to be problems with the trigger/hammer/sear, and that is one of the most common sources of problems with the Taurus 1911's. In fact, the hammer is what broke on the one I had fail on me.

Of course you can replace these parts, but then your overpriced $600 Taurus becomes a brutally overpriced $800 Taurus. Since a lot of the safeties have failed, it would probably be a good idea to replace that also. Add in a general once over and maybe a test fire by your gunsmith and it would be easy to hit the $900 mark. For a Taurus that is still a substandard 1911? No thanks.

ithaca_deerslayer

01-27-2010, 12:08

I agree that it's a tough test. That's why he did it. However, the problems you see there are not heat related. They appear to be problems with the trigger/hammer/sear, and that is one of the most common sources of problems with the Taurus 1911's. In fact, the hammer is what broke on the one I had fail on me.

Of course you can replace these parts, but then your overpriced $600 Taurus becomes a brutally overpriced $800 Taurus. Since a lot of the safeties have failed, it would probably be a good idea to replace that also. Add in a general once over and maybe a test fire by your gunsmith and it would be easy to hit the $900 mark. For a Taurus that is still a substandard 1911? No thanks.

But after those replacements, if they were needed, it'd no longer be a substandard gun would it?

I mean, seriously, I'm buying mine thinking "Ok, Taurus wouldn't just make crap, that makes no sense." And since I like the way it holds and the features (aside from the ILS), it should be a good gun.

If the hammer and safety are actually crap, as some of the GT's finest suggest, then those parts can be replaced.

Now, I understand the point of "why not just buy a better gun to begin with?" That could be a very good point, and turn out to be true. But even if it does turn out to be true, replacing those key parts should fix everything, no?

Brian Brazier

01-27-2010, 12:20

Unfortunately Taurus does build crap, the only exception (as far as auto pistols) is the 92. The problems with the 1911 and every Taurus are very well documented, it just pays to do your homework. Sure the PT1911 looks like a great deal with all the "upgrades" you get, but then when parts start falling off (happened to me) that price isn't so sweet. I was lucky I got one when they first came out and were cheaper, and since I had so many problems with it my gun shop took it back at only a slight discount, but the trade in, and resale value on them is very low. I could put my Mil Spec up for sale and get exactly what I have into it, if I wanted to, but I don't see that ever happening.

PlasticGuy

01-27-2010, 12:51

But after those replacements, if they were needed, it'd no longer be a substandard gun would it?

...If the hammer and safety are actually crap, as some of the GT's finest suggest, then those parts can be replaced.

Now, I understand the point of "why not just buy a better gun to begin with?" That could be a very good point, and turn out to be true. But even if it does turn out to be true, replacing those key parts should fix everything, no?
Yes and no. Those particular parts would no longer be a concern, but what about your slide stop and all the other cast parts you didn't replace? Or you could gut the thing and rebuild it completely. At that point an STI Trojan starts looking cheap, and is a far better 1911 with a higher resale value if you ever part with it. Also, that doesn't do anything to fix the crappy checkering and overall loose fit and rough finish of the major components. If it's just a range toy, it's no big deal. Enjoy it, and maybe you'll get lucky and never have anything break. It's when you turn it into something you could bet your life on that it turns into a money pit.

It reminds me of the guys who dump $10,000 pimping out a Ford Focus. At the end of the day, it's still a Focus. If they had bought a 1969 Camero or a 1968 Mustang and put the same money into it, it would be both a better car and a better investment.

ithaca_deerslayer

01-27-2010, 13:01

It reminds me of the guys who dump $10,000 pimping out a Ford Focus. At the end of the day, it's still a Focus. If they had bought a 1969 Camero or a 1968 Mustang and put the same money into it, it would be both a better car and a better investment.

I don't even know what a Ford Focus is. Let's talk about a Chevy Monza. My brother had one with a V-8 that could haul butt! However, he had to jack the engine to change the plugs.

I'm not pimping out my Taurus unless something breaks. If it breaks, I will have been wrong to buy it, and I will tell all of GT about it.

I didn't mean a thousand rounds in a "big training day" I meant a thousand rounds as fast as you can shoot them. Imagine that gun getting smoking hot and trying to hold it without limp-wristing or loaded each magazine completely and see if you have any malfunctions, big man. :tongueout:

My 100 pound wife burned through a better part of a grand in less than 2 hours. It didn't bother her too much.:tongueout:

Here's my statistical data. I was a gun department manager at a large sporting goods store during the first 18 months that Taurus was shipping their 1911's. I have friends that worked in (or owned) literally every other sporting goods store and gunshop in town. Almost exactly half of the Taurus 1911's sold in this area in the first 18 moths of production had to be sent back to Taurus.

And while you're right about non-existant Glock safeties never breaking, I've actually seen more Glock extractors break in class than 1911 extractors. So much for that myth. :dunno:

doolyd

01-27-2010, 16:08

Yes and no. Those particular parts would no longer be a concern, but what about your slide stop and all the other cast parts you didn't replace? Or you could gut the thing and rebuild it completely. At that point an STI Trojan starts looking cheap, and is a far better 1911 with a higher resale value if you ever part with it. Also, that doesn't do anything to fix the crappy checkering and overall loose fit and rough finish of the major components. If it's just a range toy, it's no big deal. Enjoy it, and maybe you'll get lucky and never have anything break. It's when you turn it into something you could bet your life on that it turns into a money pit.

So in your opinion people who buy RIA have to replace nothing and it is considered a quality gun that is good to go?

doolyd

01-27-2010, 16:14

My 100 pound wife burned through a better part of a grand in less than 2 hours. It didn't bother her too much.:tongueout:

You got one hell of a lady my friend. :rock:

doolyd

01-27-2010, 16:16

I agree that it's a tough test. That's why he did it. However, the problems you see there are not heat related. They appear to be problems with the trigger/hammer/sear,

I don't know how you can tell that from the video but I can't say it's not so I won't debate it.

PlasticGuy

01-27-2010, 20:11

So in your opinion people who buy RIA have to replace nothing and it is considered a quality gun that is good to go?
It depends on what you're using it for and how many rounds you expect to put through it. Maybe. The biggest difference with RIA is that it loses features but gains a little quality, and at least you get your money's worth.

PlasticGuy

01-27-2010, 20:14

I don't know how you can tell that from the video but I can't say it's not so I won't debate it.
It seemed like most of his issues were fail-to-fires, which is why people are talking about hard primers. I'd have to watch the video again to be sure, but that's how I remember it.

Regardless, one malfunction every 100 rounds is simply unacceptable no matter the cause. Everything else is just arguing details while missing the bigger picture.

bac1023

01-27-2010, 23:24

Unfortunately Taurus does build crap, the only exception (as far as auto pistols) is the 92.

:agree:

Not a Taurus pistol fan, but the 92 is one they didn't screw up.

MD357

01-28-2010, 10:07

What is "serious" use of a gun?

HD, SD, or competition?

If someone buys a gun, and tests 500 rounds through it, then carries it, and practises 150 rounds a year thereafter, isn't that serious?

Not in my book. That's a fourth of what you go through in a good pistol class from a credible school.

Again, I think I've proven my point here of what I said earlier. Most Taurus owners just don't know any better because they don't put their guns through any rigor.

MD357

01-28-2010, 10:10

HA-HA-HA

You poor ignorant slugs make me laugh. Stroll to a SA, Kimber, or Colt forum or any other mass produced custom 1911's. All have some guy with a new pistol that never made it to 1,000 rounds or even 3 without a malfunction. So I guess that makes all you guys A-Holes because you own a custom 1911 that couldn't pass a 1000 round test ? Any one can make a lemon. There is always the unlucky few that get a bad firearm from many a manufacturer. From HK to even our beloved Glock. Seen both fail during competitions by the way...

Now go run and tell that....

Since all gun manufacturers make lemons they are all equal? Um no. I think it's quite obvious some make more than others. Rather, their demand to use certain parts or hasty fitting set them up for failure. Outside of that, it's also obvious that some have a better QC and CS dept aswell.

MD357

01-28-2010, 10:13

...more condescending 1911 snob drivel. How would you know they are not 'built to last'!

It's pretty ignorant to label me a snob when I own a four 1911s cheaper than a Taurus currently. They use REALLY cheap MIM, sorry but you're a hypocrite if you don't agree as I've seen you complain about MIM sears yes?

MD357

01-28-2010, 10:18

I don't even know what a Ford Focus is. Let's talk about a Chevy Monza. My brother had one with a V-8 that could haul butt! However, he had to jack the engine to change the plugs.

I'm not pimping out my Taurus unless something breaks. If it breaks, I will have been wrong to buy it, and I will tell all of GT about it.

I'm glad you posted this. I remember when someone posted a link to Taurusarmed.net on 1911forums. There was a poll posted and up to the point it got CLOSED there was a statistic of OVER 40% participants that had problems with their safeties. There were around ~ 50 members that replied before it was shut down. Sore subject around there I guess. The poll was eventually deleted.

bac1023

01-28-2010, 10:40

I don't even know what a Ford Focus is. Let's talk about a Chevy Monza. My brother had one with a V-8 that could haul butt! However, he had to jack the engine to change the plugs.

I'm not pimping out my Taurus unless something breaks. If it breaks, I will have been wrong to buy it, and I will tell all of GT about it.