The Old Testament At Around 300 BCE - Atheist Nexus2015-03-03T23:23:41Zhttp://www.atheistnexus.org/forum/topics/the-old-testament-at-around-300-bce?feed=yes&xn_auth=noI'm tired of the bullshitting…tag:www.atheistnexus.org,2012-02-23:2182797:Comment:18669722012-02-23T02:25:00.661ZNatalie A Serahttp://www.atheistnexus.org/profile/NatalieASera
<p>I'm tired of the bullshitting I see here. Yes, you're right, there is no archaelogical or literary record of the existence of Moses, but that doesn't mean that the early Jewish tribe didn't exist in Canaan WELL before the Bablylonian exile. As relatives of the Canaanites, they practiced much the same tribal practices, except that they had already given up the eating of pork. They used an early Canaanite script, and even called their god El, which is STILL one of the names of god used…</p>
<p>I'm tired of the bullshitting I see here. Yes, you're right, there is no archaelogical or literary record of the existence of Moses, but that doesn't mean that the early Jewish tribe didn't exist in Canaan WELL before the Bablylonian exile. As relatives of the Canaanites, they practiced much the same tribal practices, except that they had already given up the eating of pork. They used an early Canaanite script, and even called their god El, which is STILL one of the names of god used today.</p>
<p>Yes, the Jewish scriptures are gory, but EVERYONE at the time was fighting amongst themselves, the whatever the literature of the other tribes may have been, they weren't venerated and preserved, especially after the forced Muslim conversions of ~7th century. The Jews did NOT commit genocide, any more than the other tribes of the area did.</p>
<p>Until you folks learn to recognize that the Jewish writings are a historical document of a culture, and don't need to be attacked on theological terms (we ALL know they're just as theologically mythological as the Greek, Roman, Norse, Vedas and other cultural writings), I'm really not very impressed by your rants.</p> The Old Testament, or Torah,…tag:www.atheistnexus.org,2012-02-22:2182797:Comment:18668322012-02-22T22:44:18.719Zheretic zerohttp://www.atheistnexus.org/profile/hereticzero
<p>The Old Testament, or Torah, was not written until 500 years before the common era. It was written to legitimize the rule of the Priests class. yes, it was written into Greek. There were NO JEWS until they appeared out of Babylon, Josephus wrote of this in his works. The writings of prophecy and the history of the Jews, those who followed the mythical figure of Moses, were written many years after the fact, whatever they were because there is no historical Moses. There was much commerce…</p>
<p>The Old Testament, or Torah, was not written until 500 years before the common era. It was written to legitimize the rule of the Priests class. yes, it was written into Greek. There were NO JEWS until they appeared out of Babylon, Josephus wrote of this in his works. The writings of prophecy and the history of the Jews, those who followed the mythical figure of Moses, were written many years after the fact, whatever they were because there is no historical Moses. There was much commerce between Greeks and the rest of the known world, their known world. The Torah is NOT the oldest known religious writings. That award belongs to the Hindu who have had the oldest known religion. Also, ancient texts do not in any way represent the reality of the ancient world where they fought over who's god was the strongest and most loving. A lot like today's religions.</p> Natalie - You've made my poin…tag:www.atheistnexus.org,2011-12-03:2182797:Comment:17571622011-12-03T19:19:59.972ZSteven D Campagnahttp://www.atheistnexus.org/profile/StevenDCampagna
<p>Natalie - You've made my point. Religion poisons everything. Most major wars in our lifetime are 'religion' based and certainly all the the bibical wars are all God based.</p>
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<p>Certainly, land and economic problems are the 'only' things involved in some wars. However, land guaranteed by God to the Hebrews caused multiple wars. It's still going on today. The world I live in is religion based - western and middle-eastern civilization's are all having 'wars' that are obviously…</p>
<p>Natalie - You've made my point. Religion poisons everything. Most major wars in our lifetime are 'religion' based and certainly all the the bibical wars are all God based.</p>
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<p>Certainly, land and economic problems are the 'only' things involved in some wars. However, land guaranteed by God to the Hebrews caused multiple wars. It's still going on today. The world I live in is religion based - western and middle-eastern civilization's are all having 'wars' that are obviously religion based....but not all disputes involve such concepts - point taken.</p> Well, Steven, not exactly. Wa…tag:www.atheistnexus.org,2011-12-03:2182797:Comment:17562602011-12-03T01:12:48.783ZNatalie A Serahttp://www.atheistnexus.org/profile/NatalieASera
<p>Well, Steven, not exactly. Wars develop between followers of the same religion, too. Wars are actually more about power, land and resources than they are about religion. It took many wars in Japan, for example to unify the whole country, yet there was no difference in religious beliefs among the factions. The same can probably be said for pre-modern Germany, and many others that don't immediately come to mind. </p>
<p>However, religion CAN be used to unify a group of people against another,…</p>
<p>Well, Steven, not exactly. Wars develop between followers of the same religion, too. Wars are actually more about power, land and resources than they are about religion. It took many wars in Japan, for example to unify the whole country, yet there was no difference in religious beliefs among the factions. The same can probably be said for pre-modern Germany, and many others that don't immediately come to mind. </p>
<p>However, religion CAN be used to unify a group of people against another, an US vs. THEM kind of proposition. But again, look at the countries where people of different beliefs and ethnic groups HAVE managed to coexist. Nepal is one, where there are distinct Buddhist and Hindu communities, but when it came to overthrowing the king, they managed to do it without any involvement in religion.</p> Natalie - may I recommend a b…tag:www.atheistnexus.org,2011-12-02:2182797:Comment:17559152011-12-02T19:17:28.290ZSteven D Campagnahttp://www.atheistnexus.org/profile/StevenDCampagna
<p>Natalie - may I recommend a book written just recently - that i'm certain you'd relate to in many ways - "Leaving Judaism" by James Einbein.</p>
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<p>It might be found on Amazon but I'll provide as much info as i can for you to get a copy. The author was kind enough to present me a copy free as we enjoyed quite a conversation over a period of time. <a href="http://www.leavingjudaism.com/">www.leavingjudaism.com</a></p>
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<p>James Einbein - 2700 NE 51st Street # 131 Fort…</p>
<p>Natalie - may I recommend a book written just recently - that i'm certain you'd relate to in many ways - "Leaving Judaism" by James Einbein.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>It might be found on Amazon but I'll provide as much info as i can for you to get a copy. The author was kind enough to present me a copy free as we enjoyed quite a conversation over a period of time. <a href="http://www.leavingjudaism.com/">www.leavingjudaism.com</a></p>
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<p>James Einbein - 2700 NE 51st Street # 131 Fort lauderdale, Florida 33308 754-423-2638.</p>
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<p>I had no idea of how Israel Jews felt about the entire world (Goys)...and even American born jews are way way below the 'chosen' status of Israel born Jews. Quite a good read.</p> Seems obvious to me that ther…tag:www.atheistnexus.org,2011-12-02:2182797:Comment:17559982011-12-02T18:58:00.967ZNatalie A Serahttp://www.atheistnexus.org/profile/NatalieASera
<p>Seems obvious to me that there is a gradual shift from the undeniable mythology of Genesis to the archaelogical veracity of David. Abraham and Moses are, as you say, most probably based on legends, and there MAY be a grain of truth in those stories, and then again maybe not. But if the point was to make a nation out of scattered tribes, then the stories did the job they were supposed to do!</p>
<p>I enjoy studying the history of the Jewish people (because I am one), and there is far more…</p>
<p>Seems obvious to me that there is a gradual shift from the undeniable mythology of Genesis to the archaelogical veracity of David. Abraham and Moses are, as you say, most probably based on legends, and there MAY be a grain of truth in those stories, and then again maybe not. But if the point was to make a nation out of scattered tribes, then the stories did the job they were supposed to do!</p>
<p>I enjoy studying the history of the Jewish people (because I am one), and there is far more written history than non-Jews are even aware of. The Christian approach to the Jewish Holy Writings are naive, unhistorical, and biased. That offends me. And it's why I appreciate your reference to that book -- I would much rather view my ancient history and mythology as based on archaeological and scientific evidence, rather than take the views of uneducated aliens (i.e. Christians and Muslims). And I view it as a cultural experience, and not a recipe for belief! :-)</p> I am not denying the evil of…tag:www.atheistnexus.org,2011-12-01:2182797:Comment:17550532011-12-01T18:03:00.740ZMaruli Marulakihttp://www.atheistnexus.org/profile/MaruliMarulaki
<p>I am not denying the evil of any religion. I am just treating christianity as one of many religions, it has no special meaning to me to focus on it, just because I am an ex-christian. I am not fighting any backlash in myself by focussing on fighting christianity more than other religions. The christian god had never any personal meaning for me, he was less than the easter bunny. The bunny brought sweets once a year, from god I never got or expected any benefits. I attempt to keep…</p>
<p>I am not denying the evil of any religion. I am just treating christianity as one of many religions, it has no special meaning to me to focus on it, just because I am an ex-christian. I am not fighting any backlash in myself by focussing on fighting christianity more than other religions. The christian god had never any personal meaning for me, he was less than the easter bunny. The bunny brought sweets once a year, from god I never got or expected any benefits. I attempt to keep out of the harm of all religions with a cold and detached distance.</p> In far to many cases, religio…tag:www.atheistnexus.org,2011-12-01:2182797:Comment:17549102011-12-01T17:53:53.455ZSteven D Campagnahttp://www.atheistnexus.org/profile/StevenDCampagna
<p>In far to many cases, religion is just as essential to starting a war as soldiers are for finishing it. You take the religion out of war, and the entire thing would fall flat.</p>
<p>In far to many cases, religion is just as essential to starting a war as soldiers are for finishing it. You take the religion out of war, and the entire thing would fall flat.</p> Cruelty seems to be ubiquitou…tag:www.atheistnexus.org,2011-12-01:2182797:Comment:17546932011-12-01T13:45:36.476ZMaruli Marulakihttp://www.atheistnexus.org/profile/MaruliMarulaki
<p>Cruelty seems to be ubiquitous and independent of the belief system. I am attempting to evaluate the evil done by people independently from the fact, that I happen to be an ex-christian. I try to see the specific unpleasantness of christianity neither as worse than others, but as one of many. This is alse the reason, why I am not more inclined to read the bible than reading the koran or vedas or any other 'sacred' texts. </p>
<p>Cruelty seems to be ubiquitous and independent of the belief system. I am attempting to evaluate the evil done by people independently from the fact, that I happen to be an ex-christian. I try to see the specific unpleasantness of christianity neither as worse than others, but as one of many. This is alse the reason, why I am not more inclined to read the bible than reading the koran or vedas or any other 'sacred' texts. </p> The Romans wrote the complete…tag:www.atheistnexus.org,2011-12-01:2182797:Comment:17544522011-12-01T01:49:35.913ZSteven D Campagnahttp://www.atheistnexus.org/profile/StevenDCampagna
<p>The Romans wrote the complete book on slavery and slaves. In the 2nd century BCE a Roman wrote a complete guide on slaves - how they are defined etc. They were called 'talking property' - and then there is non-talking property like a shovel. Both were treated exactly the same - used until worthless - and then sold or given away. This is exactly where Christians picked up and continued - and slavery is one of their biggest EVIL's....of which most refuse to even acknowledge. It wasn't atheists…</p>
<p>The Romans wrote the complete book on slavery and slaves. In the 2nd century BCE a Roman wrote a complete guide on slaves - how they are defined etc. They were called 'talking property' - and then there is non-talking property like a shovel. Both were treated exactly the same - used until worthless - and then sold or given away. This is exactly where Christians picked up and continued - and slavery is one of their biggest EVIL's....of which most refuse to even acknowledge. It wasn't atheists that brought 600,000 black men and women from Africa and turned them into 'until death us do part' workers on plantations. It was Christians and they learned everything they needed to know from Roman rulers.</p>