CAV:Kid Omega (TDLP) vs Jean Grey (Roddy010) Votes Open!

VS

Jean Grey, the headmistress of The Charles Xavier School for the Gifted, had just ended an intense telepathic conversation with Ms. Emma Frost on her "affair" with her husband Scott after a tip from The Stepford Cuckoos. To her demise no actual affair took place in reality but within the realm of their minds. Angered and embarrassed, Jean storms out of the Mansion to cool off in the Hedge Maze.

Elsewhere, The events of AvX have finally ended and the X-men are once again separated. The outlawed Uncanny Team arrive to The Jean Grey School for Higher Learning to recruit students and accommodate the O5 only to be confronted by Wolverine, Bobby and Storm. This leads to an ongoing argument. During theconfrontation Kid Omega swoops end to deliver a few zingers at Magik.

This ends in his demise as he finds himself teleported through one of her stepping disk. Kid Omega arrives to a familiar place with lucid memory. He smiles as he remembers it all, The Riot, The Omega gang and Sophie. The young mutant then realizes that he has been transported back in time. He walks over to the Hedge Maze hoping to find the amicable psi-signature who knew to well and finds exactly what he's looking for. Only it's not the psi-signature of the beloved Sophie but that of an antagonized Jean Grey.

This wasn't the same innocent Jean Grey he saw traverse to his time line. This Jean was a woman and if he remembers correctly she had just discovered Scott's mental infidelity. Now being that he is much older and experienced, Quentin decides to peer into her mind only to find a horrific image of death and destruction of what's to come.

With no hesitation Jean sends Quentin out of her thoughts where she confronts him on the physical realm for a fight of his life.

Quintavius "Quentin" Quirinius Quire (Kid Omega)

Wait, you don't know who he is?!

Kid Omega, a (as his name would imply) teen who is nonetheless an Omega-level telepath. His standard drug (yup, he's a druggie!), Kick, boosts his mental prowess 7 times - yet even while not on Kick, it took the Stepford Cuckoos, Emma-Frost-level-telepaths, boosted by Cerebro (10x boost) and Kick (7x boost) to subdue him! (he doesn't use Kick anymore)

And hell, he wasn't even fighting back!

Due to his secondary mutation, he can manifest his telekinetic energy into...

He's developed a secondary mutation due to his overdosing of Kick, which (among other things)

Allowed him to be psychically in sync with the entire world.

It also lets him process thoughts faster than light; according to Emma Frost he is >her and Professor X COMBINED and can think

Yup. Ten million brilliant thoughts per second.

And guess what these FTL thoughts allow him to do?

Yup.

Rachel clearly didn't want Kid Omega inside her mind, yet he got in anyways...because due to his secondary mutation, his thoughts are faster than light.

He can go into the mind of any telepath in existence, because he attacks faster than they can defend. The only reason he didn't mindrape the sh*t out of Rachel Grey was because he had a crush on her (but don't we all?), and so a second or so later she kicked him out of her brain.

He can also create a psychic A.I. driven 'world' and enlarge it to encircle anything he wants.

First Quentin tries to impress a girl by telling her about the A.I. Construct.

Then he goes back to his dorm and tries to sleep, muttering about how he's going to really *get* Wolverine (Quentin trapped Wolverine inside the A.I. construct with his FTL thoughts off-panel)

Next Quentin wakes up and is like 'wtf?' because he senses someone coming.

IT'S AN ANGRY WOLVERINE!

But it's okay, because in the last panel Quentin made them invisible to detection with FTL thoughts.

This next bit is about him going around and noting that Wolverine has been turned completely upside down when he was ensnared in his little construct. Originally Wolverine and Quire were kinda friends, but now his purpose has been completely altered and he's just bloodlusted. Quire also notes that he could change how Wolverine feels IRL.

And then Quentin decides to go inside of his game world.

and then SHACKYLKA!

Quentin is...DA BOSS! literally.

Next Wolverine and Misako, the two he ensnared in the construct, come up.

Quire then heals Wolverine's wound.

He then turns a building into air, and tells Wolverine he can control everything inside the construct world.

However, he can't, because he let it run on for too long while he was sleeping, as he notes:

They get pursued by tanks and soldiers, and Quire tells Wolverine he took away his healing factor, meaning he can take away powers. Quentin makes a self-destruct button and (no surprises here) it blows up.

And then he tells them that the only way to end the simulation is to kill him.

Now.

Quire doesn't have precise control over the construct in the issue above because, as shown, he was sleeping for several hours and his subconscious went to work...not the case in most threads.

So Kid Omega can immerse you in this world where it seems like you're fighting, killing, and winning -but all for naught, because in reality Kid Omega can make you cease to exist (if you die in his world, you die in real life...not like Canada :P) with a single FTL thought, 10 million of which he thinks in a second.

Random feat, but he can mind control people while immobilized.

One of his most impressive feats, from Endsong, is being > a recently awakened Phoenix, effortlessly putting down Emma Frost, regenerating from a direct stab to the heart by Wolverine instantly, and holding off Storm, Nightcrawler, Archangel, Emma Frost, Beast, and Wolverine with his psychic tendrils ONLY -he was guiding the Phoenix, who originally thought HE was Jean Grey, into a new host with his telepathy, so he couldn't use it.

During Endsong, the Phoenix also thought he was Jean Grey, but was mistaken as Kid Omega was slightly weaker...meaning Kid Omega is only slightly below Jean in terms of psychic prowess.

He's also a H2H combatant on the level of Wolverine in pure skill, having pulled all of Wolverine's memories (including his skils) out of his head.

And he's regenerated himself back from the brink of death, Wolverine style, in the X-Mansion, while simultaneously keeping every in it still via telekinesis.

How?

Well, again, it's all due to his secondary mutation.

He's also:

+ built a copy of Magneto's psi-blocking helmet, something Reed Richards couldn't do, and then reverse-engineered it to keep all telepaths inside their own heads. It took Professor X a good fifteen minutes to break out of it.

+ invented fully-functional anti-gravity floaters for No-girl which allowed her to keep her powers

+ subconsciously influenced classmates to form a gang with him and start a riot at Xavier's (yeah, Wolverine, great sort of person to bring to your new school...)

+ managed to telepathically neutralize Wolverine, apparently effortlessly, within seconds at said riot

+ become a being of pure psychic energy and used telekinetic tendrils to break out of an 'impenetrable' chamber coming from Adamantium-claw-Wolverine

+ made basically everything he's wanted to with telekinesis, including a friggin' satellite to amplify his range (though this was before his secondary mutation)

I MEAN THE RANGE OF A FREAKING SATELLITE C'MON

He froze everyone in the entire X Mansion, collected his thoughts, and then unfroze them, handled all the X-Men while still learning to deal with his secondary mutation, and had telekinesis so precise he was able to anatomically bring someone back to life; that is, he could make their heart beat and pump blood from a DEAD CORPSE, suggesting telekinesis on the CELLULAR LEVEL!

Whew.

Alright, now here's the plan.

Kid Omega is only slightly weaker than Jean in terms of raw power as shown in Endsong.

Using a combination of this and the FTL telepathy he used against Rachel Grey, who is far more powerful than Jean and the most powerful telepath in Marvel in terms of raw power, he can put down Jean really easily.

As morals are off, he'll simply invade her mind and BAM! Trapped in the world of Quentin Quire.

Given that Kid Omega is waaaay faster in terms of thinking and multitasking than Jean, he can easily also create his standard psychic guns and start shooting her (only 80 feet apart and he's a crack shot) to force her to put up a telekinetic barrier as well.

@thedarklordpandamonium: Sorry for the late response had a real busy day and I also needed to collect feats :P Lol oh okay I'll remember that for next time. I fixed some of the rules in the OP if there is anything else to add or change please let me know. I gave Quentin kick to give him the extra boost, since Jean has more raw power than he does. I figured it would put them on equal terms. Good opening argument.

Jean Grey is a full psionic possessing telepathy, telekinesis, empathy, precognition as well as astral projection. Jean being an omega level mutant has unlimited potential in each of these abilities and has done things deemed impossible by Xavier himself.

Telepathy

When using her telepathy Jean Grey can create The Phoenix raptor, a imagery of her telepathic abilities working at their peak. This attack is so powerful it deals not only mental but physical damage as well. Jean states that no shield natural or artificial can withstand it.

Her telepathy is strong enough to breach the mental defenses of characters such as Juggernaut, Magneto, Emma Frost and Cipher.

She can read, perceive and even alter perception from across the world and has touched the minds of mutants all from the X- Mansion.

Her telepathy is considered a threat to telepaths such as Emma Frost, Cassandra Nova, Apocolypse and Gamester.

Telekinesis

Jean possesses telekinesis on a molecular level. Her telekinesis had advanced to the point that her consciousness extended itself over all forms of matter. This "Telekinetic Godhood" allows her to permeate and see through all the surface aspects of matter and energy.

MicroMacro

Jean can create a force field with her tk that is nearly impenetrable. Her shields have allowed her to travel through hyperspace into a white hole, tank a full blast from Binary, tank a nuclear gas explosion at point blank range and contain an explosion that could potentially wipe out a time line (AoA).

Now as for your plan,

Kid Omega is only slightly weaker than Jean in terms of raw power as shown in Endsong.

Actually Jean outclasses him in more than just raw power. In a telepathic battle you have to consider raw power, skill, experience, range and potential. The other thing Jean has over him is experience. Jean has been trained by Xavier since she was 12 years old in the use of her tp. She has extensive knowledge of the astral plane as well as telepathic combat.

Using a combination of this and the FTL telepathy he used against Rachel Grey, who is far more powerful than Jean and the most powerful telepath in Marvel in terms of raw power, he can put down Jean really easily.

Kid Omega may be able to peer into her mind but he won't be able to effect her successfully. Jean has resisted and taken down Gamemaster's influence, whose telepathy is stated to be omniversal.

Kid Omega on the other hand has been effected out by lesser telepaths.

Also Rachel has never been stated to be more powerful than Jean Grey. There is a reason Jean has a better control over the Phoenix Force than Rachel.

Given that Kid Omega is waaaay faster in terms of thinking and multitasking than Jean, he can easily also create his standard psychic guns and start shooting her (only 80 feet apart and he's a crack shot) to force her to put up a telekinetic barrier as well

Jean has no problem multitasking. Unlike Psylocke Jean's powers don't wane when they are used simultaneously. She was able to travel through a white hole, tank Binary's full blast all while communicating with her telepathically.

-Emma Frost overcoming Kid Omega when she's admitted she's inferior to him in every way and when 5 telepaths on her level boosted by Kick (7x) and Cerebero (10x) could barely beat him and when she couldn't do jack-squat to him during Endsong

-Cyclopse and Wolverine resisting Kid Omega's telepathic abilities when Kid Omega has effortlessly brought down Wolverine and Beast before

And other assorted idiotic contradictions, bits of PIS, and quite frankly bad art (which also contradicted itself and changed from panel to panel).

Also, let's not get into a Jean Grey vs Rachel Summers debate. In Adventures of Cyclops and the Phoenix, Jean admitted Rachel was >>> her, Rachel has TK on the subatomic level as opposed to Jean's molecular level, Rachel was born with the powers of the Phoenix while Jean had to acquire them, etc. etc. etc.

Regardless, the point I'm trying to prove with Kid Omega's FTL telepathy is that it doesn't matter how powerful your defenses are. Kid Omega is < all the Greys as shown in End of Greys, including Rachel Summer-Greys, yet he managed to get into her mind due to his FTL telepathy.

What counter, pray tell, does Jean have for that? Because morals off Quire could have broken Rachel's mind and you know it, and he was less powerful than she was. So even though Jean is > Quire, he can still get inside her head using FTL telepathy and mindrape her.

@thedarklordpandamonium: Haha can't argue too much with Schism being crap but its still legit evidence that Quentin's mind is still vulnerable to other telepaths. Professor Xavier was also able to read his mind like an open book and vice versa.

Regardless, the point I'm trying to prove with Kid Omega's FTL telepathy is that it doesn't matter how powerful your defenses are. Kid Omega is < all the Greys as shown in End of Greys, including Rachel Summer-Greys, yet he managed to get into her mind due to his FTL telepathy.

Quite the contrary my friend. Reading minds is the most basic ability for any telepath, omega or not. Xavier has been able to delve into Quentin's mind and vice versa the same with Jean, Rachel, Emma, Psylocke.

What counter, pray tell, does Jean have for that? Because morals off Quire could have broken Rachel's mind and you know it, and he was less powerful than she was. So even though Jean is > Quire, he can still get inside her head using FTL telepathy and mindrape her.

Quentin's Quire's FTL telepathy was a result in him overdosing on kick he has never displayed this ability after that story. In New X-men #138, Beast diagnosed his brain activity and and found that his brain cells (not telepathy) were transcending into "faster than light energy" and the process was killing him, leaving him a a disembodied consciousness in a containment unit. There has never been any indication that he can operate faster than any other telepath. Him producing 10 million thoughts per second is due to him having a broader bandwidth (thought channel) than regular telepaths. He's able to transfer more data in a shorter period of time. It won't help him much anyway since once he's in Jean's mind she will simply defend herself like Rachel did only this won't end in just a nose bleed. Quentin has absolutely no defense against The Phoenix raptor and has little to know experience fighting other telepaths (especially one as powerful as Jean) on the Astral Plane.

Also, let's not get into a Jean Grey vs Rachel Summers debate. In Adventures of Cyclops and the Phoenix, Jean admitted Rachel was >>> her, Rachel has TK on the subatomic level as opposed to Jean's molecular level, Rachel was born with the powers of the Phoenix while Jean had to acquire them, etc. etc. etc.

Jean has much more skill and finesse than Rachel in the use of telepathy and telekinesis. Her telekinesis had advanced to the point that her consciousness extended itself over all forms of matter. This "Telekinetic Godhood" allows her to permeate and see through all the surface aspects of matter and energy. Even at age nine, Her telepathy was powerful enough gain the attention of Phoenix lightyears away and has fluctuated into one of the most powerful forms of telepathy. I have never seen Rachel effect physical objects with her telepathy.

6) Kid Omega manages to peer into the mind of Rachel Grey...not thought communication like you're showing in the panel of Professor X and Kid Omega communicating, legitimately looking into her mind and seeing something she clearly doesn't want him to see (as evidenced by her kicking him out of her head with a nosebleed).

Did Professor X kick out Kid Omega? Nope, he let him stay.

Was I ever contending that Professor X wouldn't be able to read Kid Omega's mind? No. His FTL telepathy is only useful in offensive situations.

7) Kid Omega manages to run a hyper-detailed game world in his mind, a feat that requires computer banks to do

So.

Clearly the secondary mutation did something, right? I mean now he's significantly more powerful, is thinking faster, and can read the minds of people who significantly more powerful than he is. He's said to be more powerful than Professor X whereas before he was inferior to Emma Frost...something happened. Something big.

When he gets into Jean's mind, he's not just going to read her mind -he's going to control it (like he did to the entire school, Omega Gang, you know what I'm talking about) for a split second (just like he did to Rachel) and...shabloozey. Dead Jean.

The scene where Emma states Quentin thinks 10 million thoughts per second occurred in New X-men 135 which occured before all the other event. Emma and Xavier realize that his intellect and power expediently due to Kick. Kid Omega then starts The Omega Gang and tries to protest against Xavier's policies as his kick abuse grew. In NXM #138 Beast tells him that his psionic powers were burning out due to his overexposure to an aerosol compound for distributing a primordial microorganism, Sublime. Next we have Beast tell Xavier Quentin's brain cells are transcending into "FTL energy" and the process left him comatose. Quentin tells Xavier he hears thoughts in Arabic, French, and Chinese. And Guess what? Xavier heard them too.

Guess that means Xavier has FTL telepathy too :P

He then ascended to the White Hot Room.

The Pheonix incident occurred after this where he had a major boost when fighting the X-men from The Phoenix Force. He couldn't even pull himself together or revive Sophie with what little power he had from Phoenix so he went to search for the rest of the Force.

Then he gets beat by the Cuckoos in Nation X, poked in the brain by Emma in Schism and finally given a nose bleed by Rachel.

7) Kid Omega manages to run a hyper-detailed game world in his mind, a feat that requires computer banks to do

Jean Grey did the similar feat from halfway across the Earth in Xtreme.

I still have yet to see actual proof that Kid Omega uses his telepathy faster than any other telepath or has done anything Jean hasn't done herself and then some. His brilliance isn’t battle proven. His psionic abilities though vast are not battle proven in comparison Jean, who warrants a double life time experience.

Right, the 10,000,0000 was before, sorry. But unless I'm mistaken after Endsong it was noted that Kid Omega doesn't need Kick anymore, because even without it he was > Professor X and he'd permanently absorbed it into his bloodstream.

Kid Omega went into Rachel's mind and saw something she didn't want him to see. A second later she realized, as shown in the panels, and kicked him out. This isn't Professor X not caring whether or not Quentin sees his mind, this is Rachel Grey hiding something and Kid Omega seeing it.

And he wasn't amped by the Phoenix after he started guiding it into Jean, but was still owning everyone until Nightcrawler punched him and Emma got to work. He also wasn't amped by the Phoenix when he woke up and froze everyone in the X-Mansion with TK, something Jean has actually struggled to do before.

@thedarklordpandamonium: Well it's really debatable since there were multiple things factoring in his strength in Endsong. The fact is he hasn't shown that type of power since this event and has done nothing that any telepath hasn't already done before. I mean he needed to create a satelite just to scan the school grounds in WatX. While Jean was able to take Xavier's consciousness and spread it across the minds of millions across the planet.

Him being above Xavier and Emma means nothing against Jean, who has surpassed them both. I still have yet to see any indication that his telepathy works any different from others. He has no defense against Jean's Pheonix Raptor and lacks any worthy feats to place him on her level of skill and power. And what is he gonna do it she decides to rip him apart with her tk?

The explanation for the psychic satellite in one of the volume collections was because Kid Omega was supposed to be a Psychic Green Lantern or something. As in, they wanted to really show off his intricate TK.

It was either that or that the psychic satellite functioned as an actual satellite and picked up even people who were hiding themselves psionically.

I read one of the explanations on a thread and one of them was actually in the collection, I think.

3) Rachel Grey effortlessly kicked Kid Omega out of her brain, was shown to have psychic shields up all day 'erry day in the infamous Emma Frost being like 'you have no skill' which everyone rages about, and is basically >> him.

So from those three facts, we gain three possible options...

1) Kid Omega is incredibly powerful at offense but not at defense (which...I don't actually think is possible)

2) Kid Omega had some way of getting in but not of defending himself (seems reasonable)

3) Kid Omega lost an amp midway through the mindscan (uh...no)

So we know that Kid Omega has a way to get into telepath's brains, but not of defending himself for more than a few seconds while he's in there.

Now, what is that way?

Well, after Endsong there was emphasis placed on how he had 'outgrown kick' how his brain was 'much more powerful' and things like that, Emma Frost admitting she and Professor X couldn't hope to keep up with him, him overall being more powerful (except for Schism which is a piece of crap). He was able to do supercomputer-level-processing feats and it was noted by Beast that Kid Omega's thoughts were transcending into FTL energy, leaving him in a coma.

However, they didn't and instead simply stayed FTL, making him immensely more powerful, smarter, able to process more information -and able to attack before any other telepathy could defend.

So it's quite simple, really.

Kid Omega attacks before Jean Grey can defend and...well, owns her. Memory loop, A.I. Construct Bubble, simple control -he can do anything to her in that split second.

There is no indication that his telepathy operates faster than any other telepath. Even if he was Jean has extensive training )to defend against any attack he tries to unleash) backed by years of experience. His incident with Rachel shows that despite being able to peer into her mind he is still the inferior telepath. Anything else is pure conjecture unless proven otherwise. Jean is just too powerful for him. And if we're going by Beast's word let's look at what he has to say about Jean Grey.

Once Kid Omega "gets in her head" she's gonna detect him and proceed to rip him apart physically and psionically.

Quentin's defenses aren't strong enough for him to confront Jean on the Astral plane.

@kidman560: Votes only count if you explain why and as Dondave said it's a way for Viners to challenge one another to debate battles while other users vote based on the arguments presented.

The reason why I gave the vote and edge to you within your favor is because you were able to explain as well as elaborate on your counters as to why Kid Omega would be able to defeat Jean Grey and your arguments were structured really well along with the evidences.

My vote goes to @roddy010 because TDLP seemed to rely most of his strategy on QQ "FTL Thinking", which I feel was countered with a lot of QQ's recent showings ala Emma's Brain Poke, Rachel giving the kid a nose bleed, ect. This battle is essentially the same as a Telepathy class at the JGS only to the death, just looking at the OP. Really this debate makes me think Quire is a lot like a Glass Cannon, he can dish out a lot of damage but shatters easily.

I vote for jean and @roddy010. As stated by some others, @thedarklordpandamonium focused too much on the FTL telepathy which I don't believe is what you're trying to make it out to be, and his other showings are not that great either. Jean has better showings in this debate. For me anyways

My vote goes to Jean I'm not convinced on the ftl TP thing and its damage output. If Rachel was able to kick him out and give a nose bleed then Jean will do more in much less time. I recall Rachel has lost all her battles against Emma so I'm with Roddy in the school of thought that skill >>>> power. But here both skill and power are for Jean as shown by the galore of scans

I vote for @roddy010 and Jean. Her showings tell us that she has greater raw power as well as skill, and since the FTL telepathy is not a solid argument, quentin quire doesn't have much going for him against jean.

BTW the showings were mostly of Telepathy, so I think these scans could have been used to showcase jean's TK. Shows her holding up something that weighs thousands of tons, from X-Factor #25

I vote @roddy010 since there was too much speculation on Quentin's side. He's never shown FTL telepathy and his recent showings show that he can't fight against strong telepaths(when he beat Emma he had the Phoenix), and I think that roddy countered very well all of his adversary statements