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The DC fire department said 60-70k. Please don't tell me that they are lying. I grew up around firefighters, and as far as I'm concerned they are well trained American Heros.

Do the actual numbers really have ANY value in your eyes, Buzz? Or for that matter, in the eyes of your leaders?

Am I wrong in assuming you hold in contempt the actions of these demonstrators? As a small business man, you are looking forward to having universal healthcare, so the 'burden' is off your shoulders? My question is, what is stopping you from removing your responsibility of carrying employee healthcare? Is there a law that requires it?

UB

When the one you love becomes a memory, that memory becomes a treasure.

Yardley you are a case, too bad you can't tell how it really is. There hasn't been slavery in the US in almost 150 years and your still blaming it for the ills of blacks. Give it up, get off the guilt trip your trying to lay on us. How long will you and The Messiah be blaming Bush for everything. Sometimes people have to be responsible for their actions and not blame others for their own short comings. There's a reason for the disproportionate number of blacks in our prison system. THEY COMMITTED CRIMES because they chose to. There's a reason for the high rate of illegitimacy because they chose it. Nobody gave me anything, I got what I have by working my butt off. Others should do the same instead of always asking for a free luch.

Let us be clear where this thread started: UB elected to post an article by an idiot suggesting that blacks should be thinking whites for having brought them out of heathen Africa to our golden shores where they could live as slaves and learn the Christian and American way. I didn't start off suggesting anything about feeling guilt. Quite frankly, my relatives never owned any slaves. I also didn't suggest a free lunch for anyone.

I stated that Buchanan should have the privilege of watching his own children and all of their descendants live the life for which he says blacks should be giving whites thanks. If those hundreds of years of history are evidence of the good whites did for blacks, he should be happy to see his family receive similar privileges.

The fact is that Buchanan's article is obscene. When I was accused of saying vile things and missing the good points made in his article, I addressed those points specifically.

I believe in affirmative action; I do not believe in giving anyone a free ride. There is a big difference. Quite frankly, everyone talks about how blacks are taking jobs from whites who are better qualified. Where's the proof that they are better qualified? What are the criteria being used? For those that say that affirmative action represents discrimination against whites, I point out that if the process were truly racist, blacks would be receiving a disproportionate share of the best jobs and best seats in colleges. They are not.

Buchanan's citations of questionable (at best) crime statistics as evidence of black racism and what he calls "the epidemic of black assaults on whites that are real" are outrageous and I stated why.

Buchanan's descriptions of programs for the poor as evidence of how whites are acting to lift up blacks are even more outrageous, especially since the majority of the recipients of assistance under those programs are white.

And finally, Buchanan's suggestion that Blacks should be happy that they were brought over as slaves because it allowed them to become Christians may be the least Christian comment I have heard.

The point of my comments is not to suggest that whites should bow down under the weight of their guilt for the evils of slavery and racism. The point of my comments was not that blacks should feel free to demand favored treatment because of those past sins rather than accept personal responsibility for their own lives. The point of my comments was that Buchanan is an idiot and is engaging in what I believe is deliberate hate mongering when he says to blacks "Where is the gratitude?"

Why are there no African countries on that list? I might grant that there could be colonialistic reasons why some African countries might not be able to provide high levels of "prosperity" ... but what about the freedom aspect.

Do Africans in Africa have less freedom there than in France or Switzerland? Why would that be? If African countries threw off the mantle of colonialism because it constricted their freedom, what would make those (African) countries discard freedom so dearly won?

God bless 'em ... the Swiss have managed to stay neutral in the big wars ... but they require every male adult to own a firearm and learn how to use it Also have a world-renowned banking system.

Frankly England, Switzerland and France don't offer more opportunity nor do they have a higher standard of living if you compare apples to apples. The total percent of blacks in England is just a little over 2% not a sterling example of multi racial diversity.
I am convinced that there are those that voted for Obama simply because he is black, as certainly is their right, more concerned about showing the rest of the world how enlightened we are rather than examining the character of the man and his ideas for the country. It appears that anyone willing to stand up and proclaim the king has no clothes is immediately marginalized by being branded a racist, not by Obama himself but by his supporters and with his tacit approval.
Argue about race all you will it does nothing but obfuscate the real problems with the policy.

"The longer you let a dog go in the wrong direction the more they think they are going in the right direction" Don Remien.

Frankly England, Switzerland and France don't offer more opportunity nor do they have a higher standard of living if you compare apples to apples. The total percent of blacks in England is just a little over 2% not a sterling example of multi racial diversity.
I am convinced that there are those that voted for Obama simply because he is black, as certainly is their right, more concerned about showing the rest of the world how enlightened we are rather than examining the character of the man and his ideas for the country. It appears that anyone willing to stand up and proclaim the king has no clothes is immediately marginalized by being branded a racist, not by Obama himself but by his supporters and with his tacit approval.
Argue about race all you will it does nothing but obfuscate the real problems with the policy.

What you seem to be missing is that Buchanan made a specific statement that blacks in America had "reached the greatest levels of freedom and prosperity blacks have ever known." You asked me to provide a single example of a country where blacks had more freedom and greater prosperity than in the US. I did not mention African countries since, as a group, they are third world countries that do not offer the level of prosperity available in the advanced, industrial nations.

The examples I offered include two where blacks have educational and work opportunities that are clearly comparable to those available to whites and where the overall standard of living is comparable to the US. More importantly, they are countries where color is not generally a limiting or defining factor affecting socio-economic status as it is in this country where the gap between white incomes and black incomes is growing rather than shrinking. France is a somewhat different situation since it has been overwhelmed in recent years by African immigrants that are relatively poor and uneducated. That has raised a number of questions within the country. However, those questions appear to be getting addressed in a manner that assumes that the African population will be fiully assimilated within French culture through full access to educational resources, jobs, housing, and open acceptance of intermarriage. None of those countries has a history comparable to ours of legal discrimination. None of those countries has a history and tradition of relegating blacks to an economic and social underclass. As a conswquence, I believe each meets your challenge to " please name another country where blacks have reached a higher level of freedom and prosperity than the US."

By the way, unmarried teen pregnancy is increasingly becoming a problem of the south and of evangelicals rather than a problem of urban blacks.

Jeff,

Some may consider unmarried teen pregnancy a problem. I think abortion is a much greater problem. When you break down who gets abortions blacks are much more likely to get abortions than whites. The greatest genocide ever has been the abortion/murder of so many black babies in the name of a "right to choose!"

The race card has been used way too much to have any impact anymore. I have grown up with it. I was raised by liberal parents, in a liberal community. The first school I went to that wasn't half-black was the University of Illinois. We all have problems. I'm all for helping those who need help black, white, yellow, orange, male, female, even those who are more than a little confused about who/what they are.

Most of our problems aren't because of who/what we are but because of what we do, or don't do. That is what is so upsetting about what is happening in our country now. Our leaders are trying to what our country is fundamentally. America is a great country that was built on the toil and sweat of hard working people of all races. We need to be giving hands-up to the less fortunate, not hand-outs!

Do the actual numbers really have ANY value in your eyes, Buzz? Or for that matter, in the eyes of your leaders?

Am I wrong in assuming you hold in contempt the actions of these demonstrators? As a small business man, you are looking forward to having universal healthcare, so the 'burden' is off your shoulders? My question is, what is stopping you from removing your responsibility of carrying employee healthcare? Is there a law that requires it?

UB

Seems to be of great importance to Glenn Beck and his followers.

"For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

France is a somewhat different situation since it has been overwhelmed in recent years by African immigrants that are relatively poor and uneducated. That has raised a number of questions within the country. However, those questions appear to be getting addressed in a manner that assumes that the African population will be fiully assimilated within French culture through full access to educational resources, jobs, housing, and open acceptance of intermarriage. None of those countries has a history comparable to ours of legal discrimination. None of those countries has a history and tradition of relegating blacks to an economic and social underclass.

It should prove interesting to see how this situation evolves in France. How well France can assimilate large numbers of immigrants may depend on how long heavy immigration continues, and if it keeps getting larger each year. If they are being overwhelmed with poor & under-educated African immigrants, it's almost analogous to immigrants from Mexico to the U.S.

It could also depend on how much the Africans want to be assimilated. With Mexican immigration to the U.S., there are at least some who do not wish to be assimilated.

How well the assimilation takes place could also depend on how robust the French economy is or can become ... to provide more jobs for added population that is larger than it would otherwise have been.

There are certainly racists left in our country. There probably always will be. Their prejudice has not, and willl not, be limited to just black Americans. However, the American experience does have a unique factor in the history of slavery as a way of life for the first 100 years of its existence; and longer for the history of segregation.

What I have a hard time believing is that racists are large in numbers compared to the number of fair-minded people who are willing to give any sincere, hard-working, aspiring individual a chance to get ahead in making a better life for themselves or their families.

I do have a hard time accepting that one must pay for the sins of their fathers for time eternal. If a man murders somebody, does anyone expect that the murderer's grandchildren should continue to make reparation to the victim's grandchildren? How many generations should it continue? Just doesn't compute for me.

OTOH, I do agree with Dave about Native Americans. Not only did we take their homeland, we broke our treaties over and over again. And our behavior hasn't improved much (at all?) even today. They could have surely used the help of the NAACP over the years.

G.Clinchy@gmail.com"Know in your heart that all things are possible. We couldn't conceive of a miracle if none ever happened." -Libby Fudim

​I don't use the PM feature, so just email me direct at the address shown above.

Yardley, affirmative action has been proven over and over not to work. I worked for the Federal Government and can't tell you how many blacks were set up for failure by affirmative action as they didn't posses the skills necessary for the job they were promoted into. I've also seen many jobs were white males need not apply. Affirmative action is nothing more then reverse discrimination.