PDN LIVE! February 2017

Rob Pincus was joined by career police officer Jamie Onion to discuss Interactions with Law Enforcement While Armed. Both men speak to very important concerns about these potentially tense moments from the viewpoint of law enforcement and concealed carriers. Traffic stops and other potential encounters with law enforcement that may have nothing to do with your carrying a defensive tool are discussed in great detail, as is the often asked question about informing a police officer that you are carrying and resources for the laws governing your duty to inform and your ability to carry or transport firearms legally while traveling.”

As a special bonus, viewers are provided with an exclusive code good for 50% off the PDN Academy online class called “Interactions With Law Enforcement While Armed” found in the PDN Shop and valid for 30 days following the live event.

In the case of being attacked by someone on drugs, say cocaine or meth. and their tolerance to pain, or no pain at all, wouldn’t hitting them with a larger caliber firearm, (In theory)stop the attack sooner?

I live in a state that does not require notification of legal carrying of a firearm. Why notify if you’re just being warned about a headlight or something like that, when doing so will only heighten the tension and you may be kept longer than you’d like to be? If the officer asks specifically whether I’m carrying, then yes. But why raise the tension level if it’s not necessary.

Hopefully, you got the answer to this question. It comes down to not knowing whether or not the gun will be seen or if the interaction will go further than you expect. In either case, most cops and trainers would agree that you are far better off if you had informed.

In North Carolina it has to be in plain view, where the officer can see it. If you are a CWP Holder, after telling the officer, he can’t legally has where it is located. NC officers are generally educated on the NC Gun Laws. Be very Courteous it helps.

If you are transporting through states that you cannot possess the firearm, I would consult that state specifically (AG or State Police)… that said, if you can find a way to secure a locked case in the bed, that would be a Best Practice, otherwise, disassembled and locked in a case is still the way to go.

I know attorneys on both sides of that issue. If they are the type of attorney that suggests you should also hand a card to the officer in the aftermath of a defensive gun use and not say anything, I would be skeptical. It’s the kind of behavior that most law enforcement officers see as indicating guilt. It also gives you no opportunity to establish the fundamental facts of the situation to mitigate the chances that you will be charged.
Back to the notification issue, I think that falling back to limiting the information you put out is a Lowest Common Denominator type response from a lawyer.

How can you identify yourself in an active shooter situation to make a distinction between me (CCW good guy) and the shooter?
Specifically. Any ways to make it clear so as to not get shot when law enforcement arrived on scene.

Great Question, I recommend leaving your gun holstered until you are imminently engaging a threat. I also highly recommend not using any type of extended ready position. Keeping the gun close to your body makes you look less like a killer… and, it offers many other advantages in general as well. More info on the High Compressed Ready is available here at PDN.

What if you are travelling in a car,and have a CCW license,but are not driving,and the person driving does not have a CCW license,should you still disclose from the passenger seat?In Ohio ,we are required to immediately disclose when stopped

That’s a good question. Usually, the passenger is discouraged from trying to be part of the immediate interaction… but, you would certainly want to make sure that ANY armed person in the car keeps there hands open and in plain sight and just keeps still until contacted. If the passenger prefers that the officer be notified (or, if law requires), then the driver should probably bring it up.

I always keep my hands in full view, during a traffic check or stop, inform the officer I have a CCW. When coming back thru the same traffic stop, I get a wave on and a smile. Be courteous it always helps.

Off Topic, but I appreciate you asking. Keep an eye on the AA Social Media for release announcements.
Currently, I recommend that anyone looking for a good defensive handgun, including LEOs, look at the Springfield XD, S&W M&P and Glock lines and see which one fits their hands best.

good information on tonight’s broadcast, as always, thank you. I live in Arkansas, we are going through law proposals for conceal carry on college campuses. They are proposing that you go through an additional 16 hour training like for live situations. I believe it is an excellent thing. For myself, I have conceal carry, but would like to go to some of these classes. I think it would help me personally. Should I check with conceal carry instructors, or maybe local gun shops that do the conceal carry? Or where would you suggest I go to?
Thanks, Doug

Any specific instructions for living in a state where you don’t have to alert the officer if you are carry concealed with your permit ( I live in Oregon). I feel it’s just common courtesy to the LEO , so there are no surprises.

I’m at a convince store and the is a law enforcement officer there, too. We are in line next to one another and we strike up a short conversation for some reason.
Should I then mention my concealed firearm?
In other words, just an “in passing”, short conversation.

question: Is there any suggestion. If you have a angry belligerent police officer. I have always treated officers with respect. I did get stopped by an office in my work truck on the way home early in the morning and I lived in a neighborhood where everyone drove Mercedes, Jags, Volvo etc. My beat up work truck did not fit. I was not armed because I was coming from a place where I could not have a firearm. I gave him my drivers license and papers. Asked him why he had stopped me and he said it was none of my business why he stopped me. I took no offense. Had both hands out side the window the whole time. He walked back and ran my plates and it showed I had a permit. He came back to my window hand on his gun and asked if I had a “dammed gun in the truck”. I said no officer there are no firearms in this vehicle or on my person. He then said he could give me a six hundred dollar ticket because one of my dual license plate lights was out. I said I was unaware of that and had just checked all the lights last month. He gave me a fix it ticket with an order to take it down to the court to get is signed off. I bought a new bulb the next morning and replaced the bulb the next morning. The office tailed me all the way to my house the next night. I got the fix it order signed off the next day showing the receipt for the bulb. They trust me because they did not have an office on duty that could walk out and check the installation. I was never disrespectful during the whole time. I do not resent the officer I know they some times have a tough day.

Gary, While that certainly isn’t the best case scenario for an interaction with LE, I think you can see that you did the right things all the way through. Be respectful, be cooperative, go out of your way to show you are not a threat (keeping hands in view).
My guess would be that if you had been armed and only told the officer when he asked upon returning to your truck he would’ve had some less-than-optimal follow up with you about not informing him in the first place. I can’t guess as to how he would’ve responded if you had been armed and did tell him right away, but I honestly believe that would be the better situation. As we addressed in the Live Chat, you don’t want any officer (polite or belligerent) thinking you are hiding the fact that you are armed.

I have been pulled over with firearms that were accessible to me (within arms reach) and openly exposed in the vehicle. In those cases, it is reasonable to believe that the officer will see the gun before you get to talk to him, so it is very important to have your hands in plain view and be ready to follow directions. it wouldn’t be out of the question for the officer to order you out of the vehicle before approaching.

Here in south Florida we are currently having a number of miscommunications resulting in Police shootings including a Miami officer who shoots an unarmed attendant trying to find his patient who is lying flat on his back in the road with hands up-Officer response is” I don’t know why I shot you” and the Tampa retired detective who shot and killed a fellow movie patron who threw popcorn at him!. Sometimes the communication between the officer and civilian is poor even though attempted . PLEASE PLEASE reemphasize the necessity for the attempt at honest straight forward communication. Thanks to Rob,Jamey and Shannon, and of course Springfield for this attempt to stress the early communication and for the citizen to take the extra effort to reduce the stress of the officer.
Bill Keller,EdD.

Wish I caught this live. An important point when disclosing that you have a gun is the words you use. I would never say “Officer I have a gun”. The word gun automatically raises the stress level for all involved. I would say “Officer I am armed. I am CCW permit holder and I have a pistol located on my right side apendix carry. What would you like me to do?”

I live in Arizona and my Defense Attorney said if in AZ and stopped for an Traffic infraction, do not tell a police officer you have a CCW and armed unless they ask. Then you have to tell them. So, not sure what to do??

I have never heard anyone address the question of traveling armed through a reservation. Some of the reservations in the west are quite large and, being somewhat sovereign, can have their own laws about concealed or any other kind of travel with firearms. Where can you go for information about this? Thanks.