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Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

There is a big difference between a physical fitness metric and being able to actually perform a physically difficult task. Let us take the bench press for example. While it does strengthen the arms, it only focuses on specific parts of the muscles. I have seen guys who bench a lot struggle carrying heavy loads because it requires a range of motion that stresses muscles not heavily used in a bench press.

Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

Here, read the thread, where all this is already addressed. Then people won't have to keep repeating themselves for you.

Dodging? I've read the thread. Here, I'll ask a different way for you...

You wrote earlier:

Originally Posted by Redress

The PFT does not measure your physical ability to do your job, it simply measures your healthiness. Men and women at a certain level of healthiness will get different results on a PFT. If we are testing physical ability to handle a combat job, that test would be different, and have the same standard for men and women. Such a test if it is not already in place would need to be.

First I'll point out that while it isn't designed to measure your capability of doing your job, it still affects promotions and they are still considered, in the infantry at least, to be an actual integral part of the job itself. We trained by running PFTs, usually about 1/week, and we weren't held to a minimum stanard. So:

1) Do you think that women in an infantry unit will be able to get by, no problem or hassle, using the women's PFT standard?

2) Concerning the separate test you mention that should be instituted that will hold men/women officially to the same physical standard... Do you think that will actually happen?

Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

Originally Posted by other

Dodging? I've read the thread. Here, I'll ask a different way for you...

You wrote earlier:

First I'll point out that while it isn't designed to measure your capability of doing your job, it still affects promotions and they are still considered, in the infantry at least, to be an actual integral part of the job itself. We trained by running PFTs, usually about 1/week, and we weren't held to a minimum stanard. So:

1) Do you think that women in an infantry unit will be able to get by, no problem or hassle, using the women's PFT standard?

Why would you use any PFT standard for such a test?

2) Concerning the separate test you mention that should be instituted that will hold men/women officially to the same physical standard... Do you think that will actually happen?

It would depend on whether women are going to be put in front line MOS's. If so, then yes.

We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham
I’ve always believed that America is an idea, not defined by its people but by its ideals. - Lindsey Graham

Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

I'm not suggesting you do, just telling you that it is treated as a measure of how well you do your job in the infantry, just not the only one.

It would depend on whether women are going to be put in front line MOS's. If so, then yes.

You are more optimistic than me in this matter then. I think, just as the PFT standard is set different for women, I bet any heavily physical test would be set as such by our country--and if anything, such a test would only be more physically demanding than a standard PFT, leaving aside the technical knowledge involved.

Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

I'm not suggesting you do, just telling you that it is treated as a measure of how well you do your job in the infantry, just not the only one.

You are confusing a test that is used in part to rate your performance, and a pass/fail test of whether you are physically able to do the job. two entirely different things.

You are more optimistic than me in this matter then. I think, just as the PFT standard is set different for women, I bet any heavily physical test would be set as such by our country--and if anything, such a test would only be more physically demanding than a standard PFT, leaving aside the technical knowledge involved.

The ability to do a job physically is a binary thing, you either can or cannot. Such a test would not be able to be different based on sex. The military is surprisingly able to handle doing what it needs to.

We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham
I’ve always believed that America is an idea, not defined by its people but by its ideals. - Lindsey Graham

Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

You are confusing a test that is used in part to rate your performance, and a pass/fail test of whether you are physically able to do the job. two entirely different things.

No I'm not. I was pointing out that the PFT is usually a common training exercise in an infantry unit, not just an annual thing.

The ability to do a job physically is a binary thing, you either can or cannot. Such a test would not be able to be different based on sex. The military is surprisingly able to handle doing what it needs to.

The military is also surprisingly inept at many things, especially when bureaucratic of political mandates come into play.

Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

No sex issues, no hygiene issues, no equipment issues, no foxhole issues, no damsel in distress issues.

Capture... A US female (CSAR) was captured in the Gulf War. Jessica Lynch & Co were captured in OIF. None were sexually mistreated. Tens of thousands of Israeli females have served in the IDF and Border Guards. None have ever been captured/kidnapped.

Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

Originally Posted by kerussll

Vietnam was a long time ago. You never hear about soldiers fighting like that anymore. No, not all people can carry that weight and hike for miles. Which is why there are physical requirements to be put into combat.

1. If you think soldiers never, ever find themselves in a HTH situation in Iraq or Iran, then you are lacking in information or haven't thought this through adequately. I have some younger current-service buddies who have spent most of the last 10 years in the sandbox. It does happen on occasion.
2. I'm not sure what your second point is, other than to agree with me that a certain level of upper-body strength (which not all males can achieve, and far fewer females) is necessary for placement in certain types of combat units.

Fiddling While Rome Burns
ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
"I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."