Based on the discussion in the Allies thread, how do you think the Jedi Council should be portrayed. In Fate of the Jedi the Masters in the Council are prone to squabbling and get upset fairly easily- an attempt to humanize them. I'm trying to imagine the Council from the Prequels acting like this and I just can't.

For me, while they shouldn't be perfect, they should be very wise and patient. I know people who are just that- it isn't like it's a superhuman trait. I can see a Jedi like Saba Sebatyne getting upset at the GA, but the whole bloody lot of them? Come on. I'd much rather see dessension among the Knights (I would've liked more things like Darkmeld) than the Masters. I mean the whole idea of the Light Side is to keep your emotions in check and the elite of the elite can't do this. I find that very hard to believe._________________
Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.

While I like that they're less formal than the Council of old, I do agree that the squabbling gets out of hand. Makes them look like a bunch of unruly Padawans. That said, I like to see more humor out of them. That would be an effective and entertaining way of making them more accessible._________________All things die, Anakin Skywalker, even stars burn out.

Those without swords can still die upon them

Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:48 pm

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ReepicheepMaster

Joined: 05 Feb 2008Posts: 7613Location: Sailing into the unknown

I agree they should be, like the New Jedi Order, in general should be less white tie, but this?!_________________
Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.

Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 7:34 pm

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Rouge77Master

Joined: 22 Mar 2008Posts: 599

The problem is that if they would get their act together, be like accomplished Jedi Masters, they should wipe the floor with the Mandalorians and should be able to act politically (and otheriwise, if it would be necessary) directly against Daala. Subplot would be solved quickly.

Yet the problem with portraying them like they have been is that Luke and Anakin Solo in the netherworld have been speaking how the Jedi Order doesn't need one Jedi, how it must learn to stand without Luke etc. But based on FotJ, the Jedi Order does need one Jedi, Luke, as it can't at least work effectively without him.

So, it seems to me that this subplot can only end with the return of Luke (or, considering those "Ben will be a Grand Master" thoughts by Luke, it might already be Ben, not as a Grand Master yet, but making an inspiring example or something) and putting things in order in the Order . And Luke and Anakin Solo would be then proved wrong. The Jedi Order couldn't stand without Luke or a Skywalker at least.

But would the authors really give us this kind of portrayal of the Jedi Order? Utterly dysfunctional without a Skywalker holding the Jedi Masters in a leash and telling them and the whole Order what to do?

Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:40 am

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Darth SkuldrenModerator

Joined: 04 Feb 2008Posts: 6844Location: Missouri

I don't mind the Jedi Council having squabbles or disagreements. What I don't like is that they are always having squabbles and disagreements. How is it that these wise, diplomatic, patient, calm individuals are unable to have a meeting without it turning into a shouting match? Is it because the deep dark secret of the Jedi is that none of them are patient or level headed? Because that's what they are portraying them as._________________
"I believe toys resonate with us as humans, we can hold them them, it's tactile, real! They are totems for our extended beliefs and imaginations. A fetish for ideas that hold as much interest and passion as old religious relics for some. We display them in our homes. They show who we are. They are signals for similar thinking people. A way we connect with each other...and I guess thats why I do toys. That connection." -Ashley Wood

Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:29 am

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Mara Jade SkywalkerAdministrator

Joined: 15 Feb 2008Posts: 6205Location: Beyond Shadows

The only time in this entire series that I've found any of the Jedi tolerable was during the raid in Abyss, when they go to view Valin and Jysella. That was a purely epic moment! But other than that...bleh.

They've disappointed me at every turn. I could vaguely see the Old Republic Council having a squabble every once in awhile, especially during The Clone Wars. But the new Council never stops shouting! And they all secretly dislike each other, or so they wish to portray. I wish they would act like civil sentient beings and talk things out like even non-Jedi can manage to do. I think it would be interesting to see them argue every once in awhile...show their normal side. But constantly?! Nope, don't like it. _________________"It's not about the legacy you leave, it's about the life you live." ~Mara Jade Skywalker

Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:37 am

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comanderblyMaster

Joined: 29 Feb 2008Posts: 745Location: Denver

Darth Skuldren wrote:

I don't mind the Jedi Council having squabbles or disagreements. What I don't like is that they are always having squabbles and disagreements. How is it that these wise, diplomatic, patient, calm individuals are unable to have a meeting without it turning into a shouting match? Is it because the deep dark secret of the Jedi is that none of them are patient or level headed? Because that's what they are portraying them as.

I agree. The council should not be perfect or all knowing but they should be focused and united on the order - especially during times of crisis. Leaders are remembered/defined during crisis. The Jedi are acting like elementary school kids whose teacher is out sick and picking on the substitute. I think they can maintain the balance between a competent council and needing a Skywalker at the helm without being totally dysfunctional. The old standby of having Kyp organize opposition worked in older books for example. At least in those books Kyp was acting on his ideas and thoughts.

Whatever the motivation is for this portrayal of the council it just does not fit with the characters' experiences and backgrounds. I feel like the Solos and Skywalkers are the only capable characters in these books. It gets old seeing the same characters save the day all the time.

Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:20 pm

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Old Master BenAdministrator

Joined: 10 Nov 2007Posts: 2259Location: Georgia

I think the thing we should remember is that the old council was steeped in decades of tradition and history. The new Jedi Order isn't exactly new anymore, but maybe it just has to take a while to get the council to act like they used to.

Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:34 pm

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ReepicheepMaster

Joined: 05 Feb 2008Posts: 7613Location: Sailing into the unknown

comanderbly wrote:

Darth Skuldren wrote:

I don't mind the Jedi Council having squabbles or disagreements. What I don't like is that they are always having squabbles and disagreements. How is it that these wise, diplomatic, patient, calm individuals are unable to have a meeting without it turning into a shouting match? Is it because the deep dark secret of the Jedi is that none of them are patient or level headed? Because that's what they are portraying them as.

.

Great way of describing it.

The thing about what Rouge and Bly are saying about Luke coming back and setting things straight is that it's just so dumb (you guys aren't dumb, Del Rey is ). Yoda wasn't a Skywalker and he lead the Order all right. The other Masters aren't Skywalkers, but so what? They're still supposed to be these wise beings, it doesn't matter what their relatives are. _________________
Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.

The thing about what Rouge and Bly are saying about Luke coming back and setting things straight is that it's just so dumb (you guys aren't dumb, Del Rey is ). Yoda wasn't a Skywalker and he lead the Order all right. The other Masters aren't Skywalkers, but so what? They're still supposed to be these wise beings, it doesn't matter what their relatives are.

Also, I never got the impression that the Council was rendered ineffective when Yoda was absent._________________All things die, Anakin Skywalker, even stars burn out.

Those without swords can still die upon them

Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:31 pm

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Old Master BenAdministrator

Joined: 10 Nov 2007Posts: 2259Location: Georgia

Guys, the real reason the council was orderly back then wasn't Yoda - it was Mace Windu. Are you really going to argue with him?

*Mace glares at a dispute between two Masters* "What did you say? Say what again one more time! I dare you!" _________________
"I believe toys resonate with us as humans, we can hold them them, it's tactile, real! They are totems for our extended beliefs and imaginations. A fetish for ideas that hold as much interest and passion as old religious relics for some. We display them in our homes. They show who we are. They are signals for similar thinking people. A way we connect with each other...and I guess thats why I do toys. That connection." -Ashley Wood

Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:05 am

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comanderblyMaster

Joined: 29 Feb 2008Posts: 745Location: Denver

Darth Skuldren wrote:

*Mace glares at a dispute between two Masters* "What did you say? Say what again one more time! I dare you!"