I was told money was tight but I guess the Arte had money hidden under a Mattress. Business is business but don't lie.Retweeted by Buster Olney

I saw that. Awesome. To be fair though, all they did was take the money they were gonna offer Greinke and get Hamilton. Torri had to have known they were talking about not having money meaning after they took money and signed Grienke.

I was told money was tight but I guess the Arte had money hidden under a Mattress. Business is business but don't lie.Retweeted by Buster Olney

I saw that. Awesome. To be fair though, all they did was take the money they were gonna offer Greinke and get Hamilton. Torri had to have known they were talking about not having money meaning after they took money and signed Grienke.

Don't over think this.

The standard line from every team to guys that are old and can't really play anymore is "Money's tight."

CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! wrote:How does a Swisher signing fit in to a rebuild? Solid player, great guy, would be an instant fan favorite, but at a time where we're trying to move anything that's not nailed down, why would we want a relatively expensive vet? We're not in win-now mode.

Precisely. I hope they don't sign him unless it's with dealing him at this or the next deadline for more young, high-upside prospects in mind.

I know what time it is and I know we're far enough away from last season and close enough to this next one that hopes turn to fancy and spring eternal.

But...

Get the young guys. Follow the trail of young, elite pitching. If you stockpile that you can get absolutely anything else you need. And I'd be all for turning AsCab and Perez into that.

Who said we were rebuilding? What move this offseason has signified a rebuild? What move last offseason signified a rebuild?

We're not "moving anything that's not nailed down" for Single and Double-A prospects. Why haven't we moved Cabrera, Masterson, Perez, etc.? Because we haven't been offered MLB-ready talent for them.

That's not a rebuild, boys. We are not rebuilding.

Rebuilding maybe in the sense that we're trying to build a Major League team, something we haven't had since pretty much 2007. But we haven't blown anything up.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

Some might be of the opinion that they SHOULD rebuild. But right now they aren't.

I think moving high priced soon-to-be free agents for talent is different from rebuilding.

I've heard some people ask "If we are going to sign Swisher, why not just extend Choo instead?" But that's not the right question.

The option isn't Choo vs Swisher. The option is Choo vs Swisher + Bauer. We should always be looking to maximize the value of the assets we have. And hats what we did with Choo. And hopefully will do with Cabrera and Perez.

I think this core just isn't quite good enough, and the best course of action is to go full on rebuild. I don't think anyone we could realistically add to this team in the next 2 seasons will make them good enough to be legitimate contenders.

I like Kipnis, Chis, Brantley, and Santana. But as much as we want them to be, those guys just aren't on the level of Posey, Cain, and Baumgarner. Or Verlander, Cabrera, and Prince. And if that's your core that you are building around, you need to get really lucky.

I think they need to clear the decks of Masty, Perez, and Asdrubal with the best prospects ready to make an impact in 2015, simultaneous with the arrival of Lindor, and with some time left with the aforementioned "core" who should still have a few years left of service time.

I agree the adding Swisher does nothing really as far as contending in the next few years, so in that sense it's wasted money. It would really make no difference to me if they didn't sign him and throw a cheaper option out there.

However, I don't see how signing Swish really impedes a contention in 2015 plan. He would have a few years left as a potentially important piece, or possibly have some trade value. Or he could turn into another Hafner albatross. But you just can't live your life in fear of the next Hafner. I think it's unlikely that Swish would fall off a cliff like that anyway. Ad he's not a DH, yet.

Ad there's something to be said for trying. To putting the best out there that you can, even knowing it won't be enough. And I believe Sap knows it better than anyone that nothing short of a bunch of plane crashes will get us there in the next few years.

Competitiveness matters, it matters in the clubhouse, and it matters at the gate. And there is a difference between 69 wins and 82 wins, even if neither get you not October.

motherscratcher wrote:I think this core just isn't quite good enough, and the best course of action is to go full on rebuild. I don't think anyone we could realistically add to this team in the next 2 seasons will make them good enough to be legitimate contenders.

I like Kipnis, Chis, Brantley, and Santana. But as much as we want them to be, those guys just aren't on the level of Posey, Cain, and Baumgarner. Or Verlander, Cabrera, and Prince. And if that's your core that you are building around, you need to get really lucky.

I think they need to clear the decks of Masty, Perez, and Asdrubal with the best prospects ready to make an impact in 2015, simultaneous with the arrival of Lindor, and with some time left with the aforementioned "core" who should still have a few years left of service time.

And if it isn't happening them, do it all over again.

Windows are small.

This. All of it.

I was merely pointing out that they clearly don't think they're rebuilding. You don't sign Mark Reynolds, put out a big offer to Victorino, or aggressively pursue Swisher if you think you're rebuilding.

I've said all along that the best course of action to take it to blow it up and start from the ground up. But I've accepted the fact that they aren't doing that this winter. As long as they get better, that's all I want to see. Whether it's futile or not, if they're a more interesting team to watch this summer, that's a good thing.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

motherscratcher wrote:I think this core just isn't quite good enough, and the best course of action is to go full on rebuild. I don't think anyone we could realistically add to this team in the next 2 seasons will make them good enough to be legitimate contenders.

I like Kipnis, Chis, Brantley, and Santana. But as much as we want them to be, those guys just aren't on the level of Posey, Cain, and Baumgarner. Or Verlander, Cabrera, and Prince. And if that's your core that you are building around, you need to get really lucky.

I think they need to clear the decks of Masty, Perez, and Asdrubal with the best prospects ready to make an impact in 2015, simultaneous with the arrival of Lindor, and with some time left with the aforementioned "core" who should still have a few years left of service time.

And if it isn't happening them, do it all over again.

Windows are small.

This. All of it.

I was merely pointing out that they clearly don't think they're rebuilding. You don't sign Mark Reynolds, put out a big offer to Victorino, or aggressively pursue Swisher if you think you're rebuilding.

I've said all along that the best course of action to take it to blow it up and start from the ground up. But I've accepted the fact that they aren't doing that this winter. As long as they get better, that's all I want to see. Whether it's futile or not, if they're a more interesting team to watch this summer, that's a good thing.

Got ya. I thought you were endorsing that a couple guys like Bauer and Swisher would elevate this team to contention. I don't see that happening regardless of how much I wish it was the case.

peeker643 wrote:Got ya. I thought you were endorsing that a couple guys like Bauer and Swisher would elevate this team to contention. I don't see that happening regardless of how much I wish it was the case.

Depends on the rest of the offseason. I think they'd need at least two more impact starters, definitely Swisher, and a proven LH reliever before contention should even be discussed.

But, no, I was mostly just saying that this isn't a rebuild and there's no reason to believe they're in a rebuild.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

I think what they are doing is trying to add a piece or two to see what happens this year. We play to the trade deadline and see what happens. We have a bunch of players that all have huge talent but haven't put it together. If they do, we could contend this year. I doubt that will happen, but I think this FO is giving those players 1 last chance. I'll be shocked if we aren't sellers at the trade deadline if Masty, Santana, Kip et al. haven't found a way to be the elite players they were projected to be.

I don't even consider the position players much when I size them up. Do they have, or will they get, the starting staff to contend with? If so, great: the lineup can be figured out with in-house guys and minor acquisitions.

If not (as with this team), move the required position players to get them. The Bauer thing was probably just a perfect storm thing but if they are able to get another guy or 2 like that, trade the position players needed to get them.

Starting staff >>>>>> pretty much all of our position players, especially since they have that bullpen stocked.

Just read over on mlbtraderumors; "The Angels are “very likely” to trade an outfielder such as Peter Bourjos or Mark Trumbo for a pitcher."

Think Masty and pieces could net us Trumbo? Another corner outfielder or DH with pop, and he's right handed. I'd love to see him in a Tribe uni!

Welcome, dude. Don't be a stranger.

That doesn't sound bad on the face of it, but I'm wishy washy on Trumbo. I haven't made up my mind how much I like him. And I'm still hoping that last year ( and every other year besides 2011) was an outlier for Masty. I'm nothing if not an optimist. I'm willing to be swayed on this one.

If it was Masty for Trumbo straight up, I might think about it but then we are subtracting pitching. Masty may not be as good as 2011 but I find it hard to believe he is as bad as 2012. Plus we need to be in the business of adding pitching not getting rid of it, but if they were able to deal Asdrubal for more pitching then I would probably be okay with that type of deal All that said I dont think the Angels would do that deal anyways so its a moot point IMO.

I don't like subtracting pitching either, but Trumbo is the type of right handed bat we've been looking for for years. The downside to aquiring Trumbo would be that we're adding another 150+ K hitter. Stubbs, Reynolds, Trumbo...thats a lot of Ks, lol. It's hard to say what we are going to get out of Masty. Getting rid of Asdrubal for more pitching would definitely be a must, IF a deal along those lines was to happen.

Swisher visiting the Indians FO tonight.Olney among others believe we are going to make a massive push for Swisher and possibly even try and get him signed to a deal before he meets with other teams. I'm not so sure we will achieve that as Swisher knows the Rangers and M's have deeper pockets but fingers crossed.

per rotoworld/twitter

"There is but one thing of real value: to cultivate truth and justice and to live without anger in the midst of lying and unjust men"

Mark Feinsand of the New York Daily News reports that the Dodgers are shopping Andre Ethier.The Dodgers have denied trying to trade Ethier this offseason, but it remains possible he could be moved if any team is willing to take on his massive contract. Feinsand speculates that if Ethier is dealt, the Dodgers could be in the mix for Nick Swisher, who is scheduled to make multiple free agent visits this week.

Rotoworld

He's owed $85m until 2017 which is more than we are likely to be offering to Swisher, but to be fair I'd prefer Ethier over Swisher.If the Dodgers send $10m in a deal I'd rather we try to acquire Ethier

I think a deal is contingent on them landing Swisher, but anyone think we could make a trade work?

"There is but one thing of real value: to cultivate truth and justice and to live without anger in the midst of lying and unjust men"

British_Pharaoh wrote:I'm thinking Swisher ain't going to be sitting in the home dugout at Progressive Field if the rumoured 4 year $50m offer is to be believed.

I'm betting it's higher than that. I personally think the Indians went closer to 4/56 and are hoping their rumored offer stays on the low end and maybe lets them sneak in with the highest or second-highest bid.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe