WINDOWS 8 ?

Comments

I hope you are not right and the end of desktops is not nearing, Kendall. Gamers, hobbyists and other home users are not the only ones who use PCs. Millions of people use desktops at work, any any tries to replace them with something else would be only for the worse. I work as an accountant and I sure as hell don´t expect my boss to buy me a TV to use it as a screen. I don´t need my working computer to be mobile, I work in the office the whole day and am not going anywhere.

Frankly, I cannot imagine what I would do with a tablet at work. It is good for use at home, when you want to play some games, but other than this I see no advantages for using tablet over desktop. Not to mention the problems with backache and similar health problems resulting from being hunched over a tablet for too long a time. 8 or more hours of tablet usage at work - no, thank you! Plus if you use TV as your screen at home, what if other family member/s want to watch TV? Buy another TV? Why not buy a proper desktop instead, then?

...Yes, but the point is that the "tablet" is becoming more than enough to replace the PC in the average home..Those running "high end" applications may need more "horsepower", but the normal household does not...

The age of the PC is ending....

Yes, tablets will soon be powerful enough for most home use, they already are for many people. The big issue here is peripherals and that will be solved in time in a way that surpasses current desktop integration with peripherals, including storage, input, and output devices as well as pairing with other new items in new ways.

As for the age of the pc ending, yes.. would agree with that also, with a caveat. Ending of an age doesn't mean that the item in question goes away. It doesn't even mean that the number of sales declines. Just that the number of sales in a given area percentage wise is much less then some other alternative. That is the real issue methinks. There will be 100x the number of tablet type devices sold for every desktop, and notebook/tablet/phone division will become more blurred so that a dedicated desktop will almost seem an anomaly except in places that people think they are being archaic in their approach (like businesses, doctor's offices) and in places where people can still use the flexibility of a custom built desktop. Mainframe computers were still going strong for over 20 years after their predicted demise, and while they have been replaced by server farms in sales, they still run in many places, but it took over 20 years after their predicted demise. The era did end when predicted however as the impetus had moved. That is the real definition of the 'end of an era' is not when the aspects of the era die but rather when the focus shifts significantly away from them as being primary.

I hope you are not right and the end of desktops is not nearing, Kendall. Gamers, hobbyists and other home users are not the only ones who use PCs. Millions of people use desktops at work, any any tries to replace them with something else would be only for the worse. I work as an accountant and I sure as hell don´t expect my boss to buy me a TV to use it as a screen. I don´t need my working computer to be mobile, I work in the office the whole day and am not going anywhere.

Frankly, I cannot imagine what I would do with a tablet at work. It is good for use at home, when you want to play some games, but other than this I see no advantages for using tablet over desktop. Not to mention the problems with backache and similar health problems resulting from being hunched over a tablet for too long a time. 8 or more hours of tablet usage at work - no, thank you! Plus if you use TV as your screen at home, what if other family member/s want to watch TV? Buy another TV? Why not buy a proper desktop instead, then?

For those interested, look up the terms "BYOD" or "Bring Your Own Device" in Google. It is currently a pretty big concern for Risk Management in some places.

Now, as I wrote earlier, the end of the PC era is in the home. Those in offices are likely to have some form of "Desktop" for the foreseeable future... whether it continues to be a M$/PC type desktop or a more portable "terminal" is yet to be seen. This is already the case. In many organizations, the standard machine issued to the office worker is just sufficient to to their work -- like a DeLL pizza box system. But for the engineering or programming crews "Workstation" level machines are issued (usually bigger machines with more power and bigger cases).

As for users of DS, Poser, C4D, etc... there will always be those (like myself) who push beyond the "average" uses of computing and will need more powerful "workstation" level equipment. As a ratio, those who really push their systems are in an extremely small minority.

...Yes, but the point is that the "tablet" is becoming more than enough to replace the PC in the average home..Those running "high end" applications may need more "horsepower", but the normal household does not...

The age of the PC is ending....

Yes, tablets will soon be powerful enough for most home use, they already are for many people. The big issue here is peripherals and that will be solved in time in a way that surpasses current desktop integration with peripherals, including storage, input, and output devices as well as pairing with other new items in new ways.

As for the age of the pc ending, yes.. would agree with that also, with a caveat. Ending of an age doesn't mean that the item in question goes away. It doesn't even mean that the number of sales declines. Just that the number of sales in a given area percentage wise is much less then some other alternative. That is the real issue methinks. There will be 100x the number of tablet type devices sold for every desktop, and notebook/tablet/phone division will become more blurred so that a dedicated desktop will almost seem an anomaly except in places that people think they are being archaic in their approach (like businesses, doctor's offices) and in places where people can still use the flexibility of a custom built desktop. Mainframe computers were still going strong for over 20 years after their predicted demise, and while they have been replaced by server farms in sales, they still run in many places, but it took over 20 years after their predicted demise. The era did end when predicted however as the impetus had moved. That is the real definition of the 'end of an era' is not when the aspects of the era die but rather when the focus shifts significantly away from them as being primary.

In red: Absolutely agree 100%.
In blue: sales have already declined in this case for PC's... dramatically. Especially for laptop sales. Laptops were being sold more for the home due to being more compact, but the sales numbers for laptops have plummeted. What is expected to happen is that as sales of Android enhanced devices increases, and the interaction between them becomes more convenient (look at the new trend in televisions that allow an Android phone to act as a remote) the need/desire for a "windows station" in the home will decline. This is the reason for the hard push for W8 (or "Wait" as it's being called) to have the same touchscreen like across all devices. In this case, it is probably too little, too late: Microsoft's IBM mistake.

Okay I work for a ISP company and I have t tell you.
I hate windows 8, we got 2 new ones at work over a week ago, the Metro style interface sucks when your trying to program ASP.NET. and PHP, because you have to manually keep going back to the files in documents when before i could keep them in a working file on the desk top. if you have to do something to the computer settings so you can set up a Visual basic or a cold fusion server forget it. everything will need to be done manually through the control panel which has also changed its interface.
you can't access Linux servers for credit card gateways with Kopix, or Puppy Linux for windows system, which allows me to switch back and fourth between window & Linux panels like I can with windows 7 which means i have to go to another machine if i need to make a Linux server change when I am setting up a server side for shopping cart. Also Magneto and Miva does not support win8 at this time.another pain in the ass.

I had requested my boss remove the new win 8 out of my cubical Thursday. I went back the win 7 machine. It was taking me longer to navigate the win 8 system, which was putting me behind in my work.. you can change the metro style to a regular OS type system with a start menu, using a optional app. but every time MS has a update (which is about ever other day) it reverts back to the metro style again, another pain in my ass. .
I have a cruz tablet and Android smart phone that uses all the apps I want to use.
but i don't like to use apps to program on a desk top PC, the file tree is horrific to work with. the win-sxs file and registry management is even worst than it is in windows 7. The x86 program file does not work he same as in win 7 leaving you have to manually search for the common files in the program file in the c/ drive.
if you start connecting external server drives and servers side protocols , you have to manually type in the drive location instead because Adobe Live cycle does not support win 8 at this time., and when doing networking to server sides files manually, then you will keep getting a win 8 pop- up warning stating that "this device is not authorized to access these files in this manner." which in every windows machine we have i never had any trouble with. I thought at first a the win 8 system would be great. Until I had to use it everyday to work with. even my Boss hates it now because they moved them to the front desk...lol It maybe be great for gamers and people who like to chat using Tablets and smart phones. But I don't see windows 8 becoming popular as a Business Machine its too difficult to navigate the file system.
But that is my opinion.

I picked up my pre-ordered copy of Window8-Pro at OfficeMax today. I haven't installed it yet, but it goes on my spare Win7-Home machine to be used as a testbed for customer questions. It was cheap so If I really, really don't like it I'll just re-install Win7 on that machine and eat the cost for a while.

However, the discussions about XP support in Win8 seems to me to be like DAZ users asking for support for Studio1 plug-ins in Studio4. There comes a time when backwards compatability has to be sacrificed. For those who need XP support, the absence of XP support in Win8 is a good reason for sticking with Win7, but it should also be a wakeup call for the XP hanger's-on.

Maybe I'm wrong but aren't parallel ports a bit obsolete? I haven't seen a printer with a parallel port in years. Nor have I seen an off the shelf PC with one in years. I still have three machines with a parallel port but they are 8 to 10 year old XP machines. As much as I hate disposing of functioning equipment, I've had no trouble at all disposing of peripherals that aren't supported by modern machines. Yeah, I'll keep an old machine around if it serves some purpose like supporting a $20,000 flatbed pooltable sized plotter but I'd be the first one to replace my printers & scanners if they won't put me in the poorhouse.

I picked up my pre-ordered copy of Window8-Pro at OfficeMax today. I haven't installed it yet, but it goes on my spare Win7-Home machine to be used as a testbed for customer questions. It was cheap so If I really, really don't like it I'll just re-install Win7 on that machine and eat the cost for a while.

However, the discussions about XP support in Win8 seems to me to be like DAZ users asking for support for Studio1 plug-ins in Studio4. There comes a time when backwards compatability has to be sacrificed. For those who need XP support, the absence of XP support in Win8 is a good reason for sticking with Win7, but it should also be a wakeup call for the XP hanger's-on.

Maybe I'm wrong but aren't parallel ports a bit obsolete? I haven't seen a printer with a parallel port in years. Nor have I seen an off the shelf PC with one in years. I still have three machines with a parallel port but they are 8 to 10 year old XP machines. As much as I hate disposing of functioning equipment, I've had no trouble at all disposing of peripherals that aren't supported by modern machines. Yeah, I'll keep an old machine around if it serves some purpose like supporting a $20,000 flatbed pooltable sized plotter but I'd be the first one to replace my printers & scanners if they won't put me in the poorhouse.

Yes, they are obsolete, but are still widely used in corporate environments. Especially with high-end Copier/Printer combinations.

As for XP... people still want it, and many businesses still use it actively. So it is a hindrance to M$ desired acceptance of Wait. Although, I don't see Wait's UI being accepted readily in a business setting.

Getting the scanner to work was just really an excuse to play around with virtualisation on windows 7.

MS may still make an announcement about a successor to XPmode.

Otherwise you'll need an XP installation disk and spare licence and will just have to install your own copy into windows 8. That's still an option.

By the way, your ancient printer might be down to its last nozzle, you may not be able to find a driver for win8, you may not even have a parallel port on your motherboard... but win8 still comes with a parallel port driver.

I was thinking that Windows 8 would only work on a touch screen computer..that is all I have seen of it when advertised on TV..people using the touch screen with it. Made me wonder how in the world could a graphics person use such a OS and it just could not run Poser or any thing like it..I guess I am wrong?? The OP said she runs Poser and DS on it..so how can you do that using a touch screen?? I am confused needless to say LOL...

I was thinking that Windows 8 would only work on a touch screen computer..that is all I have seen of it when advertised on TV..people using the touch screen with it. Made me wonder how in the world could a graphics person use such a OS and it just could not run Poser or any thing like it..I guess I am wrong?? The OP said she runs Poser and DS on it..so how can you do that using a touch screen?? I am confused needless to say LOL...

you don't have to use the pen & touch screen option with windows 8, it still has a mouse and a keyboard.
though you quickly learn right clicking does not work the same as older versions,
and you still have to navigate it like a tablet with a mouse and a key board.
and like i said you still have the option of changing the metro style to the retro windows style using the desk top mode app. but you will find every time windows has a update you will be having to reset it
win 8 will make you learn short cut key stroke. fast. it was the really the only way i could use it at work.
using a mouse is more like using a external finger to drive your apps to navigate by which is awkward if your use to the old retro windows desk. Windows 8 is clearly built with touch in mind and the navigation works well in that particular mode, I believe MS has geared win 8 to run like this because MS has added win 8 OS to its Microsoft’s Surface tablet, which shows off Windows 8 features as a design for Mobil not PC. it will be great for kids and people who use tablets and smart phones .. not so good for those who need a pc to do true programming

I was thinking that Windows 8 would only work on a touch screen computer..that is all I have seen of it when advertised on TV..people using the touch screen with it. Made me wonder how in the world could a graphics person use such a OS and it just could not run Poser or any thing like it..I guess I am wrong?? The OP said she runs Poser and DS on it..so how can you do that using a touch screen?? I am confused needless to say LOL...

I've finally got my Win8-Pro upgrading my Win7-Home machine. To say that Win8 does have a "Desktop" mode is correct. HOWEVER, I am going bonkers with the replacement "START" mechanism. ARGHHHHH.... I never realized how much I love and rely upon the nice compact START list of applications with it's collapsible sub-categories. Everything you need right there in 6 or 8 square inches of real-estate.

in Win8 once you get yourself into the "Desktop" mode it looks and behaves just like a real desktop except that the START button/orb is missing. To get to the list of applications one used to find in the START button you have to swing the cursor all the way to the right end of the display and up or down to either the top or bottom corner to get a panel to slide onto the screen that lets you select the "SEARCH" icon magnifying glass) to bring up a full page big tile list of all the apps and the expanded sub-categories. You can't collapse the sub-categories (at least I can't) so for people like me with a zillion installed applications I have a long horizontally scrolling list of apps that confuse your eye with pretty colored icons and you search forever scrolling around on a 23 inch screen trying find what you're looking for. At least they did make it easy to close the Search list and get back to the Desktop by pressing the ESC key.

I think Win8 could really really benefit from and be more accepted by, long time PC'ers if they would simply bring back the simple collapsing list START orb while in desktop mode.

I don't use any smart phone or tablet, I've never even held one in my hand, so all this full screen big icon stuff doesn't do me any favors.

Other than my objections noted above and the inherent confusion with any new interface, I find that Win8 appears to work,... except HOW DO YOU LOG OFF or TURN THE DAMN THING OFF? Arghhhhhh....... :-(

Thanks Mec4D for starting this thread & your screenshots. The "Metro" style looks too busy for my tastes as I have very few icons on my desktop. Anyhoot it's good to see DS4 working in Win8. Any OS reinstall usually makes things work better so only time will tell how well apps on Win8 will keep running smoothly. I'm planning to get a new PC later next year, subject to available funds after a long overdue holiday. Haven't had one in 6years. About the same time I got a mortgage loan. Coincidence maybe...not. :smirk:

I hope you realised you just confirmed my worst fears, growing all through this thread, that everyone at Microsoft involved in the Win8 project is totally bonkers. This isn't an OS for a desktop PC where you install and run programs, it's a phone/tablet OS stuffed full of apps. I'm definitely giving this one a miss, let's see if MS come to their senses in time for Win9 development.

Any OS that CODES a PICTURE Password (touch screen or not) just will not touch my system. Looks like a real desktop OS for Desktop users is going to be a thing of the past very soon. If I wanted Bell's, Whistles and App's I would have bought a freaking PAD not a PC.

Maybe DS would run on a tablet, but I wouldn't want to work with it on a screen less than 26". Actually I find even a 26" monitor too small..

...I wouldn't want to try to render a "heavy" scene considering the load it would place on the CPU with regards to heat generation.

This is why I chose a slightly larger case with a lot of fans and an aftermarket cooler for the CPU in the workstation build.

Unless there has been a "revolution" in CPU design (which I have yet to hear of) that keeps it running cool even under extreme loads (such as rendering), excessive heat, particularly for prolonged periods, could shorten the devices lifespan.

Yes, the latest version of 3Delight is fast, as long as you don't use heavy ray tracing, reflectivity, transmaps, AO, SSS, etc. In a test run with raytraced shadows (ray depth set to 1) 3Delight slowed to an excruciating crawl and began to push CPU temps to unacceptable values..

I'm actually quite amazed that the old notebook is still going strong after all these years considering what I have put it through with all the rendering I've done. Granted, I do use a passive cooling pad which does help but for handling the load over extended periods of time. Active cooling is still superior. I don't see that as a possibility for such a thin profile device.

-----

Back to the main topic. The more I see of 8's UI the more I dislike it. I find it gaudy and a pain to navigate. I like things simple and up front. XP is simple and straightforward from a user standpoint and it works quite well for my needs. So it may not launch Daz Studio as fast, but I'm not in a fast paced production environment, I'm doing this for fun.

I saw that the Windows 8 Pro upgrade was only $66 and since I have yet to solve my random blue screen crashes, I thought maybe a new and improved OS would help... so I bought it tonight. One of my best friends is absolutely crazy about this OS so I have high hopes. :)

For those here that have it, is there anything I should know relating to 3D work or anything really? (I use Poser Pro 2012, in case that matters.) My upgrade disc should be here by the end of the week. I've always adapted quickly to new technology so I'm not too worried about it.

I just recently got my laptop so it's good for that $15 Windows 8 upgrade deal. I may jump on it if I like the OS on my desktop.

in Win8 once you get yourself into the "Desktop" mode it looks and behaves just like a real desktop except that the START button/orb is missing. To get to the list of applications one used to find in the START button you have to swing the cursor all the way to the right end of the display and up or down to either the top or bottom corner to get a panel to slide onto the screen that lets you select the "SEARCH" icon magnifying glass) to bring up a full page big tile list of all the apps and the expanded sub-categories. You can't collapse the sub-categories (at least I can't) so for people like me with a zillion installed applications I have a long horizontally scrolling list of apps that confuse your eye with pretty colored icons and you search forever scrolling around on a 23 inch screen trying find what you're looking for. At least they did make it easy to close the Search list and get back to the Desktop by pressing the ESC key.

Typing will filter the list, as typing into the search box on the Windows 7 Start menu will. Apparently mind-reading is missing from the list of requirements on the Windows 8 box, since there is no indication that this will work in the interface as far as I know.

Ah ha! Found it! To sign yourself off or switch user you go to the main page (whatever the hell it's called) by pressing the "WindowsFlag" key, then you'll see your login name and photo tile in the upper right corner. Click (or right-click) on that tile and you get a short menu giving you options to "Lock", or "Sign out", or "Change account picture". You also have a list of the other user accounts on the machine that you can click on to switch to that user. If other accounts are already logged-in the button has a 2nd line that lets you know.

I can already tell that I'm not going to advertise my services to train people on how to use this new OS. Sure I could use the money but not bad enough to deal with re-training computer illiterates who have, after years of trying, finally gotten used to the relatively minor changes of Vista and Win7 and now are faced with building an airplane while falling off the cliff. I'm just going to recommend that they not buy a new computer with Win8 yet. Perhaps I'll pick up a bunch of Win7 OEM install CDs to have on hand available to sell to people who really can't get along with Win8. I'll answer simple questions about Win8 over the phone but I'm not going to get caught in the trap of training unsavvy users. Been there done that, burned the T-shirt!

[after a couple of hours ]
Oops, found my first "it ain't workin" feature. :-( HomeGroups --- and it seems I'm not alone. There are lots of pitiful calls for help out there saying that their Win8 machine won't connect to their Win7 HomeGroup machines. I've followed many of the suggestions and I'm still out of luck. When I try to connect I get some sort of message saying something similar to "A Homegroup is no longer detected..." WTF? Apparently it was seen a moment ago, wha hopp'n???

Now this isn't a game changer for me. I really don't use it but I play with it now and then thinking that I'll actually eventally get a customer that uses it or wants me to set it up for them. Works fine among Win7 machines but I'll be damned if I can get it to work with my Win8 machine. (*boogers*) :-s