Forward Seattle Signature Gatherers Are Lying About Their Referendum

In an effort to repeal Seattle’s historic $15 minimum wage, business-backed Forward Seattle has been gathering signatures for a referendum to put the ordinance on the November ballot. And how are they persuading Seattleites to sign their petition? By lying:

In the audio above, recorded June 27 outside the Target in Northgate, the signature gatherer can clearly be heard telling potential signers that Seattle’s $15 an hour minimum wage “hasn’t been legalized yet,” that the city council “didn’t officially vote on it,” and that the petition “raises it to $15 an hour.”

These are lies. In fact, the petition is for a referendum that would entirely repeal Seattle’s $15 an hour minimum wage, and replace it with nothing. That is what the businesses behind Forward Seattle have resorted to: paying signature gatherers to lie to voters about their referendum.

And it’s not just one rogue signature gatherer. Over the weekend I was forwarded this audio from an unrelated source, a compilation of various signature gatherers telling various lies about their petition. Potential signers are told that “they’re going to get to $15, just not so fast,” that “this is not to eliminate it,” and that the petition will “incrementally raise it to $15, not all at once.”

If I lied about Forward Seattle and the shameless lying liars who back it, they could sue me for defamation. But it is perfectly legal for them to hire people to lie about their referendum. Still, if these businesses are so willing to lie to me about their referendum, why should I trust them to tell me the truth about their goods and services? Politics aside, I won’t willingly do business with people I don’t trust, and so I will never spend my money at these businesses again.

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Is there any reason why SEIU and other organizations can’t have volunteers stand next to these signature gatherers and tell folks the signature gatherers are lying? They don’t even have to maintain a 35-foot buffer zone. They can stand right next to the signature gatherer.

Wow Goldy maybe if that had video it could be considered proof, but it doesn’t so, it isn’t. I guess it is ok for David Rolf to lie & call any business supporting a $12.50 minimum wage “fringe right wing ideologues” despite these businesses support of marriage equality, raising the minimum wage to $12.50, supporting gun control, and even supporting Mayor Murray in an effort to demonize them. Or for Attorney Pete Homes to “all of a sudden” find out that charter amendments are only allowed in odd numbered years only after the fact & when Forward Seattle was going to put a $12.50 minimum wage on the ballot that treated all businesses equally with no waivers for special interest groups & Unions. And since Pete Holmes only “remembered” about the rule of odd numbered the referendum is the only tool left for them to use to have their voices heard as they were clearly did. The fact you would say these businesses are so “willing to lie to you” because you found some audio only of a supposed paid signature gatherer is beyond ridiculous hyperbole.

Since you are supporting the boycott of small local businesses for donating to a political group that wants to raise the minimum wage, just not as much as you want. I hope then you would also be ok with same businesses firing someone who supported $15NOW. (I am not ok with stifling of ones political voice in either scenario, nor you ridiculous mischaracterizations of all business as equivalent to Walmart/McDonalds .)

@ 3 Rabbit, considering that a $15 minimum wage hasn’t been enacted & that Forward Seattle’s first choice was to have a competing $12.50 minimum wage on the ballot you would be wrong. It is only because Pete Homes all of a sudden remembered that charter amendments could only be placed on the ballot in odd numbered years that the referendum was the only vehicle left for them. You don’t find it funny that for months $15NOW threatened their ballot initiative & Pete Holmes said nothing, for months. But within a week of Forward Seattle announcing their intention to file a ballot initiative Pete Holmes all of a sudden discovered a rule disallowing it? Pete Homes found in a week what he had apparently overlooked for months, that is either dishonest or grossly incompetent.

I just want to remind everyone that the Republican Party, and the business owners it represents, are dead-set AGAINST raising the federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour. Claiming these people are for “raising” the minimum wage when they’re actually trying to lower it from $15.00 down to $12.50 is laughable.

On the other hand, they are FOR unlimited anonymous corporate spending on political campaigns and AGAINST unions, collective bargaining, and food stamps. All across the country, Republican-dominated legislative bodies are passing laws making it a crime to (1) videotape abuse of farm animals and (2) give food to homeless people. Sound familiar?

People like this were around 2,000 years ago, too, and God sent his kid down here to straighten them out. Republican values are so contrary to Christian values that voting for Republicans is a non-Christian act.

Mrs. Rabbit tells me she may have signed this petition at Central Market last week. So here’s an idea. Write a letter to Seattle’s Election Department stating your name and address, and stating that if your signature appears on this petition, it was procured by false pretenses and you want your signature removed from the petition or not counted as a valid signature.

I haven’t researched this, and don’t know if you can revoke a petition signature once you’ve signed it, but it’s worth a try.

Rabbit Forward Seattle is not the Republican party, nor does the Republican party represent all business owners. The fact that you would make that case shows your narrow minded ideology.

Though I would agree that I find it laughable the GOP claims Christianity while working to cut food stamps & deny people health care. So to suggest that I am a right wing ideologue because I support a more modest minimum wage that treats businesses equally without waivers for special political interests is just a flat lie.

If the minimum wage had been adjusted for inflation it would be $10.86 today if it had tracked it’s highest purchasing power, so I just can’t get behind calling a group that is for a minimum wage that is higher than it has ever been right wing ideologues. In fact it is this kind of hyperbole and demonizing by both sides that really is what bugs me most. Business pretends raising the minimum wage is economic apocalypse & everybody working for minimum wage is looking for a hand out, and it’s bullsh*t. But so to is labors claim that every business is equivalent to McDonlads & Walmart & David Rolf’s claim that Forward Seattle are conservative right wing ideologues as though they want to overturn marriage equality, deny climate change, and want to teach creationism as science is as equally bullsh*t. Ideological lies from the left are as odious to me as ideological lies from the right.

@9 Have you priced Seattle rents recently? $12.50 is not a livable wage in Seattle. Really, $15 isn’t very much, so what’s the big deal? As a capitalist, I’m making over $75 an hour today just from owning stocks, and I don’t even do any work.

Rabbitt, yes as a matter of fact I priced rents about a month ago in a discussion with you about how much rents had risen over the last 5 yrs (groceries also) right here on HA. In addition I am pricing rents currently looking for a larger house to live in to accommodate a recent family addition. I need to find a new place to live by Sept 1.

So now that I answered your questions, please do me the same courtesy. You don’t find it odd that Pete Homes found in a week what he had overlooked for months for $15NOW’s measure, thereby nullifying Forward Seattle’s ballot measure for a $12.50 minimum wage that has no waivers for special interests & treat all businesses the same?

And are you ok with David Rolf calling small businesses that supported a $12.50 minimum wage, marriage equality, equal pay, “right ideologues” just because they don’t support the same minimum wage increase? Or Goldy calling them liars based on an circumstantial audio recording of a paid signature gatherer? If so you are as bad as Fox News and like Goldy and Rolf just the other side of the ideological coin.

Again, Goldy is being manipulative, and manipulation is a form of dishonesty.

I mean, the company that Forward Seattle hires is responsible for…who? For each person’s words? How is that? As a responsible, reasonable adult, even if Tim Eyman’s people said something ignorant, I’d not blame him for it. You know why? Because I am an independent thinker. I am not so biased as to try to lead by my agenda. That would make me a dishonest person if I tried to spin every issue towards my ends.

For instance, The Stranger god rid of Goldy. I mean, their standards are LOW. Really, really low. Got a heartbeat? Well, you’re HIRED! Yet, they got rid of him. So, using Goldy’s means of logic, that suggests that he’s not even up to THEIR standards. Wow. Can one then imagine he level of his lack of quality if even The Stranger finds him useless?

Now, I don’t know this guy. He has a terrible reputation, but I don’t know him. I’ve years being a good citizen, helping out as much as I can in my community, but then people like “Goldy” will come through, ignore the reality that such a MW will destroy our small-businesses environment, he’ll ignore all the facts that prove this claim to be an absolute truth, and he’ll work as hard as he can to harm another’s integrity.

Because, he does not care. He does a crap job, and he does not care who he hurts as long as his agenda is forwarded it.

His crusade, along with Sawant and the $15 Now cadre will ruin Seattle. People will be out of work. Businesses will close. Those that had heard that they will see a wave of riches will see the prices of everything going up, jobs will be harder to find, rent will CONTINUE to increase.

It’s called ‘unintended consequences’.

So, whether ‘Goldy’ is not that bright or perhaps one of those True Believers that cares more for ideology over actual people, he can boycott anyone that he wants. That’s what America is about, it’s about having the personal freedom to do what one wants and more often than not being able to speak one’s mind.

Speaking of speaking one’s mine, it is illegal to harass the signature gatherers. It’s a felony.

In general, if your business model only works if you pay less than a living wage and or it means your employees have to have government assistant to live even though they are working for you, then your business model is broken and I don’t think you need to be in business.

@13 At least I have the balls to stand 100% behind my words, whereas you claim to have ABSOLUTELY NO RESPONSIBILITY for the lies being told by the people you pay to gather signatures on your petition. Really? No responsibility for what the people you hire are doing on your behalf? The courts keep telling me money is speech. So if it’s your money, it’s your speech.

As for why I got fired from The Stranger, you seem to know more about than I do. So please do share, instead of oozing inuendo.

Finally, it is not illegal to do a Decline to Sign campaign. Eyman attempted to change that, and he failed. It is perfectly legal to stand by a signature gatherer and politely ask people not to sign while explaining that the canvasser is lying. Talk about smug.

Goldy you are really comfortable calling an entire group of local businesses liars based only on an audio recording that in no way has been verified? Do you know for a fact that none of $15NOW’s signature gatherers didn’t also make a mistake? And if they did does that make you and Sawant liars also?

you gotta be kidding @18: You gotta be kidding. I’ve posted two different recordings from two different sources of multiple signature gatherers telling similar lies. And I heard it myself from a signature gatherer outside the Safeway on Rainier AVE yesterday. This is standard operating procedure.

This is a paid signature drive that is knowingly deceiving voters. That is their strategy for getting this on the ballot. Notice that Andrew doesn’t deny that the signature gatherers are lying, simply that he and the other Forward Seattle backers are responsible, because giving money to an organization that hires paid liars somehow absolves them of any connection.

Yeah I am gonna need a little more than an unsubstantiated audio recording before calling a large group of local businesses liars. So then you are ok with labeling Sawant with any misstep by anyone affiliated with $15NOW? That is a pretty low bar for impugning people, holding them accountable for anything done by a associate in any group. How about Obama for the Benghazi? (which is also ridiculous). How about Mayor Murray for anything said or done by the SPD? Is Mayor Murray or previous Mayor Mike McGinn violent due to the excessive use of force by the SPD?

Oh and I am definitely going to need more than your “money is speech” argument you used in 17 to connect the dots making these businesses liars for a paid signature gatherer. Money is speech is bullsh*t, and I think you believe that also, so to use that argument is disingenuous.

Why are you so concerned about the signatures being gathered ? I thought with the %73 in favor you were feeling pretty confident about $15Now appearing on the ballot. Why are you so nervous now ?

http://horsesass.org/little-su.....permanent/
I’m not saying that millions of dollars of TV ads portraying small business owners warning they’ll close up shop or move out of town won’t nudge the needle. But that’s an awfully heavy needle to nudge. So defeating $15 at the polls would be a dubious proposition.

@11 “You don’t find it odd that Pete Homes found in a week what he had overlooked for months for $15NOW’s measure, thereby nullifying Forward Seattle’s ballot measure for a $12.50 minimum wage that has no waivers for special interests & treat all businesses the same?”

No, and neither would any other lawyer who’s ever done a statute or ordinance search, but you’re not a lawyer so you don’t understand how hard it is to find something you’re not looking for.

“you are as bad as Fox News and like Goldy and Rolf just the other side of the ideological coin”

I’ve posted many times that I’m a Democratic party hack and liberal propagandist, and I’ve never claimed to be anything else.

@12 It’s a worker’s right to demand enough pay for his time and labor so that he can. Harsh but true.

Of course, the best job is none. Our economic system totally screws workers. Working for wages is the worst way of getting money there is. You have to put up with commuting traffic, bullying bosses, hard and dirty work for low pay, paying the highest tax rates, having no financial security, etc. etc.

It’s infinitely better to own a business than to work for one. Better yet, own shares in a bunch of businesses. I own stocks in 39 different companies. I made $556 today by sitting on my rotund bunny derrier doing absolutely nothing but collecting dividends and watching my stocks go up.

So, frankly, I don’t care what you pay — because I’m not going to work for you. No matter what. I’m a capitalist. You work for me. That means you do the work and I get most of the money. That’s what capitalism is all about. Get it?

@13 Cry me a river for the poor suffering small business owners. Despite everything we liberals inflict on them, they still live a whale of a lot better than everyone else. Workers need all the help they can get. Business owners are doing fine, because the deck is massively stacked in their favor.

@20 Who gives a fuck what you “need”? We’re not here to persuade you of anything. You’re just a leech on this site. At least I give money to Goldy for the privilege of ranting here, because it costs him money to maintain this site. How much have you donated to Goldy?

@ 26 Rabbit you are a perfect example, more than once you have been caught making up facts or just pulling them out of your ass (remember you saying rent & groceries went up 60% over 5 yrs? I do, it was between 14-18%), so because you donated to Goldy he must be responsible for anything you say, by his logic. That is the problem with “true ideological believers” whether on the right or left, is they disregard any facts that don’t agree with their ideology. And the fact that you don’t think it a little funny that Pete Holmes “all of a sudden” understood a law that had been a major local news story for months, giving one side a clear negotiating advantage of credible threat of initiative but not allowing it for the other side means your head is either in the sand or in your a$$. But at least you admit it being a self admitted propagandist and all (kind of like Fox News equally full of sh*t).

@27 What a laugh. Holmes isn’t responsible for gratuitously advising or warning members of the public about legal issues that effect their personal issues, unless called upon through standard municipal processes. In fact, absent a specific legal duty, like in answer to someone asking, it is perfectly legal for him to be as closed lipped as he wants, even if it is for political reasons, which I don’t know is the case here.

Any failure !! (from your point of view) is on the part of you and your worker-hatin’ pals, with your national backers worth billions, billions, whose high priced lawyers couldn’t bother to do their own comprehensive analysis of the Seattle municipal initiative process. That billions of dollars was a huge advantage, an enormous resource that you and your worker-hatin’ pals couldn’t even use effectively. And we are supposed to trust your lot to decided the proper workings of the economy? You can’t even bother to read what’s written on paper for all to see. What a laugh.

Whenever I read “small business owner” I think of Dave Meinert, who claims he’s a small business owner, and who is probably the main person behind Forward Seattle. He owns a whole lot of small businesses, and they aren’t little mom-and-pop delis.

Small business owners? Like Suzie Burke of Fremont Dock Company? She made her money the old-fashioned way, she inherited it. But that doesn’t keep her from having contempt for everyone who doesn’t have sufficient “skin in the game” to meet her standards for having a voice in how government works. One could only wish that $15 an hour would put her out of business.

Hrm, some interesting small Forward Seattle donors here…. The Rockbox (Japanese karaoke place about a block from The Stranger HQ), the principal of Garage (Mike Bitondo), Michel Brotman of that Celebrate Seattle waterfront tchotchke shop.

Trackbacks

[…] With controversy building over Forward Seattle’s misleading campaign to repeal the $15 minimum wage, living wage supporters are taking the next step: reaching out directly to the customers of the businesses driving the effort to turn back the clock on Seattle’s minimum wage law. […]

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