Gold Member

Isn't this the same forum that was convinced Xbox One X cant hit 4K and that the 1.8 teraflop difference between Pro and X wont make for a huge difference in resolution...but now a near 2 TF advantage again is somehow again not going to make a difference?

Member

The XSX doesn't have 13 TFLOPS of raytracing hardware, it has fixed function hardware that would take 13TFLOPS of general purpose compute to match. The XSX is using the RDNA2 based raytracing from the patent I linked earlier, we 100% know this because the block names in the GitHub leak exactly match the patent.

I suspect because Sony is using the saying base GPU generation (RDNA2.0) that they will have the same raytracing implementation, we also dont know how it scales with high speeds no, but it could certainly scale better then with more cores. Its something we literally dont know at this point so its not worth discussing as itll just go around incircles.

I dont think that itll make that much difference, at worse you'll see slightly less rays depending on how much the ALU is loaded during raytracing.

Gold Member

@dark10x came back recently and made the stupid mistake of entering the PS5 Safe Space. He got dog-piled by the Sony folks for the egregious sin of DF reporting on the actual PS5 GPU aka the GitHub leak. I'm pretty sure that truly was the last will see John around here, he was treated very badly and he stated he wouldn't be back.

Makes me sad that a small group of people here who get over wrought about their favorite console can run off an industry professional like John, while sniffing fake insider farts. I really liked John & enjoyed his contributions here.

It's actually not.. all the Real discussion is drowned in a sea of bullshit.. i actually think i'm going to stay out of gaming forum for a while, until the fanboys are done jerking off... so i'll be back around launch.. if i'm lucky..

Brings back memories of gamspots systemwars.. but i'm to old for that shit now..

Member

Isn't this the same forum that was convinced Xbox One X cant hit 4K and that the 1.8 teraflop difference between Pro and X wont make for a huge difference in resolution...but now a near 2 TF advantage again is somehow again not going to make a difference?

Because we are looking at different scales. There is a smaller difference between between PS5 and XSX then there was between Pro and 1X and that’s saying something. This isn’t going to be some Xbox/PS2 level of disparity despite what the fanboys say.

Yes you are right, Nvidia solution works as separate cores while RDNA2 solution is integrated. I guess it's more reasonable to assume that it will scale in linear fashion, but time should tell. Ray Tracing is still very power hungry and having that bit more power could still make difference in Series X compared to PS5, it's why I think Cerny wasn't that excited about RT. I'm not stating this is a fact though as we have no concrete proof of anything at this point.

While I don't know if those will be real world numbers he actually got that from a developer talking about those things. However the developer wasn't sure how far MS actually pushed and invested in it.

Banned

@dark10x came back recently and made the stupid mistake of entering the PS5 Safe Space. He got dog-piled by the Sony folks for the egregious sin of DF reporting on the actual PS5 GPU aka the GitHub leak. I'm pretty sure that truly was the last will see John around here, he was treated very badly and he stated he wouldn't be back.

Makes me sad that a small group of people here who get over wrought about their favorite console can run off an industry professional like John, while sniffing fake insider farts. I really liked John & enjoyed his contributions here.

Rmember how the X360 despite having the RROD outsold the PS3? PlayStation might have a more known brand that has been around for longer. But if the actual gaming experience is superior, not even hardware issues will stop people from buying another console.

Danger: male feminist

The speculation one a couple days before the reveal. One poster got banned for being harsh on the guy. But after that there was a bunch of posters still agreeing with the asshole saying DF are shills for even speculating. I’m surprised that shit was allowed to go on honestly. I wouldn’t come back if I was him. He’s a smart guy so you probably won’t see him here again.

Member

Rmember how the X360 despite having the RROD outsold the PS3? PlayStation might have a more known brand that has been around for longer. But if the actual gaming experience is superior, not even hardware issues will stop people from buying another console.

Gold Member

This is so funny, I don't even know how to reply to this. Not sure if sarcasm or real... But...
One of the main things that are always said about the X360 is that it didn't have exclusives and that the PlayStation games are superior to anything the Xbox has. So where does your point of the PS3 having inferior games come in?
Remember how the X360 was outselling the PS3 for the majority of its lifetime despite pretty much everyone having issues with RROD? Technically the PS3 didn't really outsell the X360 until later in the cycle. It only outsold in Japan from the beginning, and the PS3 ultimately caught up because MS was only talking about Kinect.

I wonder how the PS3 would have done if it had a similar issue as the RROD instead of the X360...

Neo Member

Banned

Once we see tht word "staggering" in reference to a minimal power difference we know what time it is. Like I posted in the other thread I wonder what he thought about ps4 versus Xbox one power difference maybe the difference was catatonic levels? Atomical levels?

The PS5 is gimped. How anyone can claim otherwise is beyond me. The highest CPU clock is lower than the Xbox SX. But, to make matters worse, the PS5's CPU clock speed is variable. But, to make it even worse, for the CPU to operate at its highest clock freq(which is still lower than the Xbox Series X's CPU) the GPU has to operate at its lowest freq (which Cerny has not stated it is).

But, Cerny said the GPU will operate at its highest clock freq most of the time. Okay, great. That only means that the CPU will, consequently, be operating at its lowest clock freq most of the time. That's just bad design, no matter how you slice it.

But, it gets funnier; if the CPU were to operate at its highest freqs, consequently, the GPU will have to operate at its lowest freqs. Call it what you want, but that's just plain bad design.

To make matters worse, the Xbox Series X has, generally faster RAM as well....at least 10GBs of it.

Seriously, I don't know how people can ignore all of that, and just choose to focus on a faster SSD, and not only say that it'll close the gap, but that the PS5 will be more powerful/capable because of it. You guys are seriously...seriously lying to yourselves.

I'd like to someone make a poll, asking gaffers if they'd rather have Xbox Series X specs in the PS5, and lose the SSD speed. Or, An Xbox Series X with all the PS5's specs.

I honestly think you'd have to be some kind of special to want the PS5 specs over the Xbox Series X specs.

Banned

Once we see tht word "staggering" in reference to a minimal power difference we know what time it is. Like I posted in the other thread I wonder what he thought about ps4 versus Xbox one power difference maybe the difference was catatonic levels? Atomical levels?

The PS5 is gimped. How anyone can claim otherwise is beyond me. The highest CPU clock is lower than the Xbox SX. But, to make matters worse, the PS5's CPU clock speed is variable. But, to make it even worse, for the CPU to operate at its highest clock freq(which is still lower than the Xbox Series X's CPU) the GPU has to operate at its lowest freq (which Cerny has not stated it is).

But, Cerny said the GPU will operate at its highest clock freq most of the time. Okay, great. That only means that the CPU will, consequently, be operating at its lowest clock freq most of the time. That's just bad design, no matter how you slice it.

But, it gets funnier; if the CPU were to operate at its highest freqs, consequently, the GPU will have to operate at its lowest freqs. Call it what you want, but that's just plain bad design.

To make matters worse, the Xbox Series X has, generally faster RAM as well....at least 10GBs of it.

Seriously, I don't know how people can ignore all of that, and just choose to focus on a faster SSD, and not only say that it'll close the gap, but that the PS5 will be more powerful/capable because of it. You guys are seriously...seriously lying to yourselves.

I'd like to someone make a poll, asking gaffers if they'd rather have Xbox Series X specs in the PS5, and lose the SSD speed. Or, An Xbox Series X with all the PS5's specs.

I honestly think you'd have to be some kind of special to want the PS5 specs over the Xbox Series X specs.

Danger: male feminist

Depends on your taste really. I’m more hyped for Halo and fable more than any Sony game right now. I honestly think Sony’s PS4s exclusives were mediocre overall even though I’m in the minority on that. GOW, rachet and blood borne were the only must haves looking back for me. HZD, Spider-Man, infamous, days gone, last guardian etc. Didn’t do much for me personally. I’ve spent more time with Xbox exclusives.

Member

Not at all, game pass did tht and Microsoft following Sony's blueprint to perfection, investing in more studios, talking about giving devs more freedom, removing Kinect, following God of War and uncharted lead of making those linear games more open. No one has the perception tht the X "craps" all over ps4pro bcus thts bs lol you might as well be cousins with the guy tht used the term "staggering". A little higher resolution in most games and one or two more stable fps or minor fps drops isn't crapping on no one. Not to mention first party Sony games on pro still "crap" visually on first party games on Xbox x.

Xbox x has done nothing to change their perception thy gained tht through forced good will and pro consumer moves because thy were getting "crapped" on by Sony is sakes so thy had no choice.

Member

This is so funny, I don't even know how to reply to this. Not sure if sarcasm or real... But...
One of the main things that are always said about the X360 is that it didn't have exclusives and that the PlayStation games are superior to anything the Xbox has. So where does your point of the PS3 having inferior games come in?
Remember how the X360 was outselling the PS3 for the majority of its lifetime despite pretty much everyone having issues with RROD? Technically the PS3 didn't really outsell the X360 until later in the cycle. It only outsold in Japan from the beginning, and the PS3 ultimately caught up because MS was only talking about Kinect.

I wonder how the PS3 would have done if it had a similar issue as the RROD instead of the X360...

Member

I'm not aware of that situation, but it's absolutely NOT cool to run anyone off just because they don't say the right things about your favorite plastic box.

I would say I have somewhat less sympathy for the person you mention though because if he was claiming as an insider that the PS5 was 13 TF he was a fake insider along the lines of good old Tommy Fisher. John OTOH was simply reporting the data that had been found at GitHub which btw turned out to be true.

Yep he was getting dogpiled on twitter, receiving angry tweets and abuse from Xbox fans because at the time the PS5 devkit was at 13TF and Xbox Series X was at 12 or something along there. I remember that time he was active that time on twitter but after his tweet regarding the TF's of both machines he swore to never post about these next gen systems or any details he may have heard.
This has happened to other industry folk as well. Those who were active on forums and social media. It used to be fun to listen to them but nowadays they get dogpiled and abused by 'console warriors'.
Don't know why console warrioring is even a thing and i'm sure its from grown ups too which is even more sad.

Thing is he may have reported the wrong numbers and to be fair many insiders got this all wrong but its no need to get abuse to the point where you avoid social media contact. I mean that's my opinion on things. Tommy i could smell he was a fraud from a mile away and i was never confident in Andrew Reiner's tweet. Somehow i always thought it didnt seem right because i fully expected Xbox to be the powerhouse this gen.

Gold Member

While history (the PS4 1st party lineup) agree's with you and if things stay the same it might....I think it is a little presumption to assume that MS's 15+ studio's are just going roll over and make indie games. But based on the success of the PS4 I think many of those will migrate to the PS5...but I would not discount what the teams at MS can or will do. They never had that many 1st party devs. supporting a console. Will it be enough to equal Sony's 1st party devs we don't know. What we do know is that Sony's teams have a great/fantastic track record and it is MS in the position to have to prove themselves. But I would caution people dismissing MS's 1st party teams.

Did not MS say they were creating lots of B-tier games for their next console since they wanted more games than this gens? With the power of SX it could still be great. Next months are going to be cool for both sides anyway.

Member

If and that is a big "IF" MS is able to upclock the Series X GPU beyond it's current clock rate...the meltdowns will be immense. I personally think they should push the clocks as high as they can but able to maintain the goal of the noise and heat level. It has as 300w Power Supply so they have the room to go...it comes down to the cooling, thermals and noise. From what DF has said it is whisper quiet...but we don't know if the demo units were pushing demanding demo's/games.

I am a PC guy as well and just build a custom Water Loop gaming PC and I push the clocks as far as I can. I spend days tweaking the clocks so I stable on both the CPU and GPU. If MS has the room to do it, why not? The original Xbox One got both a CPU and GPU upclock prior to launch.

Banned

Member

Yes you are right, Nvidia solution works as separate cores while RDNA2 solution is integrated. I guess it's more reasonable to assume that it will scale in linear fashion, but time should tell. Ray Tracing is still very power hungry and having that bit more power could still make difference in Series X compared to PS5, it's why I think Cerny wasn't that excited about RT. I'm not stating this is a fact though as we have no concrete proof of anything at this point.

Banned

Isn't this the same forum that was convinced Xbox One X cant hit 4K and that the 1.8 teraflop difference between Pro and X wont make for a huge difference in resolution...but now a near 2 TF advantage again is somehow again not going to make a difference?

Industry Professional (Vetted)

@dark10x came back recently and made the stupid mistake of entering the PS5 Safe Space. He got dog-piled by the Sony folks for the egregious sin of DF reporting on the actual PS5 GPU aka the GitHub leak. I'm pretty sure that truly was the last will see John around here, he was treated very badly and he stated he wouldn't be back.

Makes me sad that a small group of people here who get over wrought about their favorite console can run off an industry professional like John, while sniffing fake insider farts. I really liked John & enjoyed his contributions here.

Member

XONE X right now is more powerful then PS4 base and PS4 Pro and that isn't really having much of us go out and ignore God Of War, The Last Of Us 2, Ghost Of Tsushima etc because of it.

By that logic, PS2 should have never lapped GC and XB.

Power is nice, but this difference is very, very small. Gamers will side with games vs specs as even XONE X sales right now should show not many care about those numbers if they lack compelling software. Most of us are more looking forward to what new IP Sony make for PS5 then a series of numbers.

Member

XONE X right now is more powerful then PS4 base and PS4 Pro and that isn't really having much of us go out and ignore God Of War, The Last Of Us 2, Ghost Of Tsushima etc because of it.

By that logic, PS2 should have never lapped GC and XB.

Power is nice, but this difference is very, very small. Gamers will side with games vs specs as even XONE X sales right now should show not many care about those numbers if they lack compelling software. Most of us are more looking forward to what new IP Sony make for PS5 then a series of numbers.

To be honest this is what made me buy PS4 Pro over Xbox One X, even despite me having the cash for One X. It came down to GAMES.
The games i liked more on PS4. Not saying Xbox was bad. Forza was the one game that made me consider One X but that was the only really good game. It was a choice of Forza over God of War, Horizon Zero Dawn, Gran Turismo Sport and a few others.
I'm looking forward to seeing what Xbox has this upcoming generation. I want to have that headache again when I go shop for my next gen console but this time i want the playing field to be even. I want to be spoilt by choice which is why i'm almost 100percent certain that both MS and Sony will absolutely deliver and i will eventually get both Series X and PS5.

So a guy who hangs with TimDog is to be trusted, (Heard he worked for Sony some 20 years ago)…. but If Cory Barlog, ND or the RAD guys say PS5 hardware is awesome, guys who set graphical standards in every generation, no matter the hardware.....They are just biased devs working for Sony?

Funny too, that everytime you see XBOX fans use a dev to imply relevance, it's because it's an EX Sony Dev, EX Naughty Dog, EX Santa Monica, EX Guerilla dev...….I guess the Sony name is pretty much the standard of quality now innit…….No longer for this guy though, as he was booted years ago...….