For those of true entrusting it does. At least that's what Shinran taught. Those who practice in self power might be born in the outland but those of Shinjin instantly attain nirvana at the moment of death.

So compassion does not produce harm others, stops giving harm others what it does and benefit to others, frees others from the sufferings. Not only that, even the cause of the sufferings, the defilements. So what it does is, what responsibility it takes is enormous, it is like sky, or even for one sentient being, what compassion does, even one sentient being, to liberate from oceans of sufferings of the samsara, oceans of sufferings, problems of human beings, oceans of problems of sura, asuras, hell realm, hell sufferings, hungry ghosts, animals, the oceans of sufferings of animal beings, so compassion what it does, it liberates that sentient being from all those skies of sufferings, which continuation has no beginning.

So compassion helps to end that one sentient being’s suffering, oceans of samsaric suffering which continuation has no end. So that’s unbelievable. So now here we are talking about numberless others, your compassion benefiting to numberless other sentient beings. So it’s unbelievable. So therefore, it’s the most precious thing to have in the life, the most precious, it brings all the wishes, fulfills all your wishes for all the happiness. Fulfills wishes of happiness of every single other living being, your compassion. So this most precious thing.

In order to ensure my mind never comes under the power of the self-cherishing attitude,I must obtain control over my own mind. Therefore, amongst all empowerments, the empowerment that gives me control over my mind is the best,and I have received the most profound empowerment with this teaching.-Atisha Dipamkarabrtsal ba'i bkhra drin

JKhedrup wrote:BTW although I decided the Buddhist path was the correct one and made more sense (I was never satisfied with the Hare Krishna explanation of why we had become separated from god and had to return to illusion/maya), I do think that Hare Krishna wins in the music/chanting/hymns department hands down.

Like you, I made a similar choice, albeit in the other direction for some years. I even lived in one of their ashrams.

The debate about "the fall" is still ongoing. It's one of those esoteric hot-potatoes that can mark you as one to be watched out for in the ashram.

Like philji and others have said, groups like this can teach us a lot. Whilst their view may be ultimately based on misapprehensions, the motivation at times is very pure. Also, their discipline could give others a big run for their money. I remember routinely waking at 4am, and lights out only close to 10pm (exhausted, of course). My favourite time of the day was early morning, just after 5am, in the temple, singing and chanting, and then silent meditation afterwards.

em, didn't really impling that chanting will accomplishes this. not much in the chanting but in the mindfulness. the mindfulness of Buddha/Amitabha is in line with Right Mindfulness (and the rest of The Noble Eightfold Path). yes the volition behind the action is of utmost importance.

_/\_Amituofo!

"Enlightenment is to turn around and see MY own mistake, Other's mistake is also my mistake. Others are right even if they are wrong. i'm wrong even if i'm right. " - Master Chin Kung

I grew up attending the Krishna temple weekly as my friend's dad was into it.

If it weren't for them I might not have decided to become a vegetarian at age 5.

As for whether it is a true path to collective liberation--IMO any religion can lead you to that, but some are easier to get you started and others are easier to get you finished. I think it is important to at least be familiar with the tenets of Mahayana Buddhism (Theravada is usually misunderstood as leading to some ultimate endpoint in which one is forever "done" with life, so it can be confusing).

I could never accept most religions because my mind does not work with illogical and fanciful tales. That is why I found refuge in Buddha dhamma. However, having found the goal of uniting with the universal intelligence which is beyond the tetralemma, I discovered that worshipping this intelligence with the Krishna devotees became invaluable to me getting over myself. I have a tendency toward over-intellectualizing and feelings of intellectual superiority which are greatly smashed by chanting Hare Krishna with great devotion. I laugh at how silly I am as "I" reify the great loving intelligence, yet I find that this great Awake One (which one could label Buddha, or dhamma) is pleased with my worship, even as it laughs at my silly reificiation. The Hare Krishna mantra also sounds beautiful when sung with feeling, and is less sleep-inducing than chanting Buddho to the breath.

As for the Krishna priest on the train who was not compassionate--well, many great Buddhist masters (eg Acariya Mun) were quite harsh at times, so it is hard to say whether the priest was acting from ego or not, however in general Prabhupada did teach compassion as essential to develop. He said we chant Krishna in order to cleans our defiled hearts. The path of Bhakti is one of developing supreme love for God and all beings which are not really separate from God except by illusion. And as Ajahn Amaro points out, Shakyamuni Buddha himself would not have taught anyone anything had the gods not asked him to reconsider... Although really the gods that Buddha said were themselves unenlightened are not what modern people think of when they speak of God which is in all things.

It's called the Mahā Mantra, a Vaishnava mantra. It invokes the name of Hari (Vishnu), Krishna and Rāma (incarnations of Vishnu). Due to Sanskrit inflection Hare is the vocative of Hari and Harā, a name for Rādhā. Rādhā is the śakti of Krishna, and an incarnation of Lakshmi, the consort or śakti of Vishnu. So, it's a kind of inflectional play on words. In Hinduism the name(s) of God(dess) are non-different from God(dess). Chanting the Mahā Mantra, or any name(s) of God(dess) brings blessings and karmic benefits in this age of kali yuga. It is a nāma japa which can be recited by anyone, no initiation by a guru is needed. It's often chanted on a mālā, but like any nāma japa, can be recited whenever, wherever, for whatever number of repetitions.

Worthy, wise and virtuous: Who is energetic and not indolent, in misfortune unshaken, flawless in manner and intelligent, such one will honor gain. - Digha Nikaya III 273

JKhedrup wrote:Krishna, the ultimate and omnipresent form of god, incarnated as Chaitanya to introduce the method of chanting the names of God using the Maha Mantra (Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama....)

Interesting that Chaitanya never chanted Hare Krishna and this mantra was never mentioned in books of first Chaitanya followers. His mantra was Hari Haraye Namah. Hare Krishna Mantra is an invention of 19th century. It was taken from Kalisantarana Upanishad which is also new upanishad, because the original was lost centures ago. And in this upanishad maha-mantra starts with Hare Rama. Not with Hare Krishna like they chant in in ISKCON. Hare Krishna Movement is not even Hinduism. Swami Prabhupada said it himself in one of his books. ISKCON is the pseudo-hinduistic totalitarian cult.

JKhedrup wrote:Krishna, the ultimate and omnipresent form of god, incarnated as Chaitanya to introduce the method of chanting the names of God using the Maha Mantra (Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama....)

Interesting that Chaitanya never chanted Hare Krishna and this mantra was never mentioned in books of first Chaitanya followers. His mantra was Hari Haraye Namah. Hare Krishna Mantra is an invention of 19th century. It was taken from Kalisantarana Upanishad which is also new upanishad, because the original was lost centures ago. And in this upanishad maha-mantra starts with Hare Rama. Not with Hare Krishna like they chant in in ISKCON. Hare Krishna Movement is not even Hinduism. Swami Prabhupada said it himself in one of his books. ISKCON is the pseudo-hinduistic totalitarian cult.

dear PL4ever, your statement is false.

Mahaprabhu most certainly CHANTED and taught his followers and devotees to chant the Hare Krsna mahamantra!!! Mahaprabhus most common kirtan was Hari Haraye Namah BUT he chanted JAPA of Hare Krsna Mahamantra and advocated others to.you must have forgotten the history from the 15th century to present day of many great mahasiddhas who attained Prema through isolated practices of hare krsna japa. to say hare krsna mantra is a 19th century invention is just wrong.before the common KIRTAN of Hare Krsna there was ALWAYS the bhajanandi path of solitary Hare Krsna japa. this is FACT.

scholars are not entirely in agreement that is started with Hare Rama in the older texts.

and for the record Swami Bhativedanta and iskcon/Gaudiya Math, does NOT represent traditional Caitanya Vaishnavism.in fact he is not a Praabhupada in the traditional sense a Prabhupada is one born of the family of the great luminaries of bengal, hence Nityananda Prabhu, Advaita Acarya etc. a true Prabhupada would be Tinkudi Babaji.

sources:

The following famous instructions of Sri Caitanya are related in the Caitanya Bhagavata (2.23.75-78):

"The Lord ordered everyone in great joy: 'Listen to the Krishna-nama maha-mantra:'Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.'The Lord said: 'I have spoken the maha-mantra. Perform japa of this mantra a prescribed number of times.'All perfection will be attained through this. Chant this mantra at every moment - there is no other rule.'"

The loud sounds of "Hare Krishna" appearing on his tongue, counting the nameson a splendid string with a series of auspicious knots from a cloth around his waist,his two eyes so large they seem to reach his ears, his arms extending to his knees -When will this Chaitanya again become visible to me?

This shows that Mahaprabhu saw it fit to chant the names in environments beyond the conventional scenario for mantra-dhyana, as customarily you wouldn't be chanting the private mantra aloud. The word uccaiH is rather unequivocal in that it was indeed out and loud.

Baladeva confirms in his Stava-mala-vibhusana-bhasya that this indeed refers to the thirty-two syllable maha-mantra:

"When will that son of Mother Saci -- who, taking the residents of Bengal as His own, inspired them to chant Hare Krishna a a prescribed number of times daily and who like a father gave them many cherished instructions -- again become visible to me?"

The word kIrtayata is not very customary for describing the chanting of a private mantra. From this, we may conclude that while the counting of the mantra was prescribed, it was not within the constraints of what we read in texts such as Hari-bhakti-vilasa on the chanting of mantras.

His hand trembling of prema as he touched the knots on the rope on his waist,counting the japa of the names "Hare Krishna" that bring auspiciousness for the world,his face is bathed in tears as he roamed to and fro, seeking to meet Jagannatha,may this golden figure, who brought delight to the eyes of all, protect you!

Here again, Mahaprabhu roams about with his mala of knotted rope, roaming to and fro, which is something you wouldn't customarily do while chanting a private mantra.

"Seeing the people of the world afraid of the sins of the age of Kali and dejected at heart, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu personally gave them the hari nama mantra and also ordered them to do loud sankirtana of this maha-mantra while dancing and playing musical instruments."

This Hare Krishna mantra was also sung during Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's acceptance of sannyasa, as Kavi Karnapura describes in his Chaitanya Charita Mahakavya (11.54):

"When Sri Gauranga accepted sannyasa, the barber took the blade in his hand but was not able to shave any of the Lord's curly locks out of grief. In great ecstasy Sri Gauranga Deva told him to repeatedly chant Hare Krishna out loud. Then the barber loudly chanted the same and began his job of shaving while he wept and his body was studded with goose pimples."

Mahaprabhu's behavior while chanting the Krishna-nama Maha-mantra is further described in his dialogue with Ishvara Puri (CC Adi 7.72, 78, 81, 83):

Ishvara Puri: "You are a fool, you have no eligibility for Vedanta. Always do japa of the Krishna-mantra, the essence of all mantras."Mahaprabhu: "Unable to maintain my patience, I have become maddened. I laugh, cry, dance and sing like a madman."What kind of mantra you have given, Gosai, and what is its power? By doing japa of this mantra, I have become mad!"It is the nature of Krishna-nama maha-mantra that anyone who does its japa, in him bhava for Krishna awakens."

It is hard to imagine Mahaprabhu sitting still and meditating on the mantra, given the vibrant and ecstatic nature he ascribes to his experiences with it.

"Reciting this verse, Gaurahari walked along the path. Seeing people on the way, He told them, 'Say Hari Hari!' These people became maddened in prema, saying 'Hari Krishna!' They would follow behind the Lord, being eager to see Him."

"Everything is accomplished by Hari-nama sankirtana, including the goal of life (sadhya) and the means for its attainment (sadhana).In this age of Kali, the only means for deliverance is the chanting of the names of Hari. There is no other way, there is no other way, there is no other way.'Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.'This verse of names is called the maha-mantra. It contains sixteen names of the Lord, consisting of thirty-two syllables.Chanting this mantra again and again will awaken the sprout of prema within the heart, and thus the goal of life and the means for its attainment is understood."

The following famous instructions of Sri Caitanya are related in the Caitanya Bhagavata (2.23.75-78):

"The Lord ordered everyone in great joy: 'Listen to the Krishna-nama maha-mantra:'Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.'The Lord said: 'I have spoken the maha-mantra. Perform japa of this mantra a prescribed number of times.'All perfection will be attained through this. Chant this mantra at every moment - there is no other rule.'"

The final statement is very significant in the light of the idea that chanting the maha-mantra would be forbidden in kirtana: sarva kSaNa bolo ithe vidhi nAhi Ara - "Chant this mantra at every moment - there is no other rule."

The following event described in Lochan Dasa's Chaitanya Mangala is also a noteworthy example:

"Embracing a brahmin with his out-stretched arms, Prabhu brough devotion to his house and began to sing.The brahmin's house became like Vrindavan, and everyone gathered, hearing the names of Hari:'Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.'"

“Anyone who dances in front of Sri Hari and loudly chants the hari nama maha-mantra will destroy all witches of sin. Just as the water of sacred rivers like the Ganga purify the universe, similarly those who circumambulate Sri Hari and loudly perform nama sankirtana of the 16-word maha-mantra with sweet voices and while clapping the hands, purify the entire universe.”

From my perspective it doesn't matter what you chant, as the purpose isn't in the word symbols, which are meaningless anyway, but in setting up a mental object unto which to focus your awareness attention in order to "purify" one of your senses, in this case that of the brain-sense

Disclaimer: If I have posted about something, then I obviously have no idea what I am talking about!

randomseb wrote:...as the purpose isn't in the word symbols, which are meaningless anyway, but in setting up a mental object unto which to focus your awareness attention in order to "purify" one of your senses, in this case that of the brain-sense

Hogwash. It's a symbiotic process between the subject and the object, otherwise we could all sing the latest McDonalds/Coca Cola jingle and reach enlightenment that way. You can't though (unless you are REALLY good at fooling yourself). The word symbols do have a specific meaning, at the relative level.