Makes sense I missed it... it was near my son birth... 0 time to movie since.

I will try to find it to watch.

These days I and wife were discussing... let’s watch a movie now that our baby did sleep... we started to search for one when I realized “Love. You wake up in 6 hours to work... do you really want to watch a 2 hours movie?”. Obvious she rejected the movie.

tl;dr

Once you realize that everyone has biases to some degree and you can never be sure how much they are actually trying to be objective or rational, you can then start to use your intelligence and rationality to see past the bias and look at the facts if there are any and compare them, challenge them or learn from them. Simply hand waving away anyone's opinion just because you think they are "bias" is a good way to try to live in your own comfortable narrative and leave your intelligence unchallenged. Thereby strengthening your own bias... Like trying to make a snowball in a freezer one snowflake at a time... Gotta keep it safe!

That’s why both - Microsoft and Sony - show them their console/have an interview with them about the console before talking to ANYONE ELSE?
Cerny had an interview with DF BEFORE ANYONE ELSE and they will even SHARE MORE info that DF directly receive from Sony in the coming week. Yeah.

Gold Member

B-b-b-but everyone keeps telling me the XSX has no optimizations and just brute-forces its way through solutions!!! Are you telling me they're....lying?!?

Okay all that aside this looks pretty nifty. Will be cool to see it used for next-gen gaming. It'll be particularly helpful for speeding up graphics development in 3rd-party titles between PC and XSX. Curious what Sony's version might be and how friendly it'll be for 3rd-party developers who want console & PC ecosystem support.

Gold Member

Ahahaha Alex laid the smack down.
I listed/watched that Minecraft RT/XS demo and it was apparent that he's more knowledgeable than even John.
He knew more overall and was dominating the conversion, just like he did in those messages with self proclaimed tech savvy fans, NX Gamer included.
The guy is well informed, it's bound to crush some ego's and leave a nasty taste in people's mouth but I can respect someone that knows exactly what they are talking about.

Member

B-b-b-but everyone keeps telling me the XSX has no optimizations and just brute-forces its way through solutions!!! Are you telling me they're....lying?!?

Okay all that aside this looks pretty nifty. Will be cool to see it used for next-gen gaming. It'll be particularly helpful for speeding up graphics development in 3rd-party titles between PC and XSX. Curious what Sony's version might be and how friendly it'll be for 3rd-party developers who want console & PC ecosystem support.

I also do not disagree with dictates or whatever that guy was called from DF in his reaction he actually makes sense there. i just pointed out that they guy gets ridiculed because of his DF signature which sits on a payroll at the end of the day by his audience / contracts / sponsorships / ads etc. Once u get exclusives / early access / paid by something u simple aren't neutral anymore.

Cerny also came out with lots of claims which we have to see if it's going to materialize at the end of the day. As of now xbox spanks the PS5 and there is no other way around it.

What sony needs to do is come out sooner then later with a demonstration on why they choose something and why it matters. Instead of the disaster they showcased with a guy that lacks any charisma.

tl;dr

I also do not disagree with dictates or whatever that guy was called from DF in his reaction he actually makes sense there. i just pointed out that they guy gets ridiculed because of his DF signature which sits on a payroll at the end of the day by his audience / contracts / sponsorships / ads etc. Once u get exclusives / early access / paid by something u talk about u simple aren't neutral anymore.

Cerny also came out with lots of claims which we have to see if it's going to materialize at the end of the day. As of now xbox spanks the PS5 and there is no other way around it.

The thing about DF though, is that they have plenty of competition with anyone else able to do the same exact tests they do. So while they may have various biases, that stops when they do the tests as long as they are doing them in an objective and scientific manner.

Gold Member

I also do not disagree with dictates or whatever that guy was called from DF in his reaction he actually makes sense there. i just pointed out that they guy gets ridiculed because of his DF signature which sits on a payroll at the end of the day by his audience / contracts / sponsorships / ads etc. Once u get exclusives / early access / paid by something u talk about u simple aren't neutral anymore.

Cerny also came out with lots of claims which we have to see if it's going to materialize at the end of the day. As of now xbox spanks the PS5 and there is no other way around it.

What sony needs to do is come out sooner then later with a demonstration on why they choose something and why it matters. Instead of the disaster they showcased with a guy that lacks any charisma.

You sure you meant to quote me there? That was my first post in this thread

I was just poking fun at the people who keep insisting the XSX is just "literally" a PC in a box with no customizations and optimizations for console gaming in mind. Some upset folks've been running with that fake narrative hard since Wednesday and it' just funny to see them keep insisting it true when evidence shows the opposite.

Member

You sure you meant to quote me there? That was my first post in this thread

I was just poking fun at the people who keep insisting the XSX is just "literally" a PC in a box with no customizations and optimizations for console gaming in mind. Some upset folks've been running with that fake narrative hard since Wednesday and it' just funny to see them keep insisting it true when evidence shows the opposite.

Dunno what all the DF convo ATM is about :S

Did DC do something like mesh textures? I know it used deferred rendering (which VRS seems like an evolution of). But yeah, DC was clearly ahead of its time. Champ of an innovator

Member

I didn't save that post.
But I said that concern that PS5 "is not really" RDNA2 because Cerny did not mention all the RDNA2 features seems strange.
Because these features are so minor and removing them from the silicon would be much harder task then leaving them there.
And if the concern is for power profile, then I think Cerny would gladly remove RT instead, which indeed can save some SoC space.

Gold Member

I didn't save that post.
But I said that concern that PS5 "is not really" RDNA2 because Cerny did not mention all the RDNA2 features seems strange.
Because these features are so minor and removing them from the silicon would be much harder task then leaving them there.
And if the concern is for power profile, then I think Cerny would gladly remove RT instead, which indeed can save some SoC space.

Whats going to be fun is watching all the nutty sony fanboys crying for the entire gen when XSX versions win every single DF Head to Head….but don't worry, you sony fans will get dat 1-3 sec faster load times. Whats really going to be interesting is if both consoles launch at same price.

Been following Dictator since he first started posting on this site. He is a PC gamer. He has no bias for either console platforms. He's just speaking what he believes based on all his knowledge and research.

Gold Member

I didn't save that post.
But I said that concern that PS5 "is not really" RDNA2 because Cerny did not mention all the RDNA2 features seems strange.
Because these features are so minor and removing them from the silicon would be much harder task then leaving them there.
And if the concern is for power profile, then I think Cerny would gladly remove RT instead, which indeed can save some SoC space.

Do you think it's possible Sony may've removed RT from some CUs but left it intact with most of the others? It seems the American and Japanese side have been debating w.r.t the costs and BOM for a while now. For example the PS5 going with 14Gbps chips because the Japanese side favored it.

It's part of the reason I think the MSRP could be at-cost or even slightly for-profit, and if the BOM is estimated at $450, makes me thin the MSRP could be at least $450 as well.

Gold Member

Whats going to be fun is watching all the nutty sony fanboys crying for the entire gen when XSX versions win every single DF Head to Head….but don't worry, you sony fans will get dat 1-3 sec faster load times. Whats really going to be interesting is if both consoles launch at same price.

Gold Member

Do you think it's possible Sony may've removed RT from some CUs but left it intact with most of the others? It seems the American and Japanese side have been debating w.r.t the costs and BOM for a while now. For example the PS5 going with 14Gbps chips because the Japanese side favored it.

It's part of the reason I think the MSRP could be at-cost or even slightly for-profit, and if the BOM is estimated at $450, makes me thin the MSRP could be at least $450 as well.

Banned

I have a hard time believing a good percentage of modern open world games rely on procedurally generated content. I believe games like DS and HZD have handcrafted content mostly. Can anyone confirm if this is the case? Ppsorcerer

Member

We know that 20-30% power difference is for rasterization, but most games next gen will have some form of RT in them and Xbox is probably faster in that by bigger factor than flops tell us so far. And if PS5 doesn't support VRS then this power gap will just get wider...

I have a hard time believing a good percentage of modern open world games rely on procedurally generated content. I believe games like DS and HZD have handcrafted content mostly. Can anyone confirm if this is the case? Ppsorcerer

Member

I have a hard time believing a good percentage of modern open world games rely on procedurally generated content. I believe games like DS and HZD have handcrafted content mostly. Can anyone confirm if this is the case?

They do. HZD relies heavily on procedural content.
But. It doesn't change the idea of a better detail due to faster SSD.
Both things are needed.
Procedural: to reduce grunt work, ease load on artists.
Fast data streaming: to realize artistic design, after all if everything is procedural it looks generic and boring as fuck.

P.S. essentially:
PS5: more art in games
XSeX: more generic stuff
Which one will win: who knows, but Sony are well known for their hugely artistic exclusive games, so it's no wonder they pull in that direction.

Gold Member

We know that 20-30% power difference is for rasterization, but most games next gen will have some form of RT in them and Xbox is probably faster in that by bigger factor than flops tell us so far. And if PS5 doesn't support VRS than this power gap will just get wider...

Member

They do. HZD relies heavily on procedural content.
But. It doesn't change the idea of a better detail due to faster SSD.
Both things are needed.
Procedural: to reduce grunt work, ease load on artists.
Fast data streaming: to realize artistic design, after all if everything is procedural it looks generic and boring as fuck.

P.S. essentially:
PS5: more art in games
XSeX: more generic stuff
Which one will win: who knows, but Sony are well known for their hugely artistic exclusive games, so it's no wonder they pull in that direction.

That's true, but if Bloomberg has their own sources I'd trust they did some research/investigation into things before putting an article like that public. They won't get all the estimates to the BOM right but they likely aren't far off from the actual BOMs, either.

It's easier to differentiate between someone who's just being a fan rather than a fanboy. As one is going to be far more unreasoned than the other when approached with logic and facts that are unfavorable to them. A fan will fall back on preference and it won't even bother him much (However, if he was engaged with a fanboy this would infuriate the fanboy). A fanboy will go all out with the twisting and is "secretly" or rather, very obviously emotionally worked up by it. I love talking about and learning new things with people so that we can all grow and be better off for it. But it's so hard to do these days with all the fanboys who just want to run in circles and crush their enemies at all cost so they can stand on top of the hill and shout, "Hey! Look at me!" while their weeping opponents tears turn the hill into an island for them to rule in their minds. It's just all so tiring.

Not Banned from OT

That's true, but if Bloomberg has their own sources I'd trust they did some research/investigation into things before putting an article like that public. They won't get all the estimates to the BOM right but they likely aren't far off from the actual BOMs, either.

Gold Member

It's easier to differentiate between someone who's just being a fan rather than a fanboy. As one is going to be far more unreasoned than the other when approached with logic and facts that are unfavorable to them. A fan will fall back on preference and it won't even bother him much (However, if he was engaged with a fanboy this would infuriate the fanboy). A fanboy will go all out with the twisting and is "secretly" or rather, very obviously emotionally worked up by it. I love talking about and learning new things with people so that we can all grow and be better off for it. But it's so hard to do these days with all the fanboys who just want to run in circles and crush their enemies at all cost so they can stand on top of the hill and shout, "Hey! Look at me!" while their weeping opponents tears turn the hill into an island for them to rule in their minds. It's just all so tiring.