Goofaholix wrote:I would say Hinayana practice with a Mahayana spirit is also the best way to approach practice in Theravada.

Just curious but what would be your definition of Mahayana spirit? And what is hinayana practice? If Theravada is not hinayana why would Theravadans practice a hinayana type practice? What is hinayana practice anyway if hinayana schools are no longer existent or practiced anymore?

I think you missed my point, Hinayana is not a school it's a style or approach to practice, Theravadin students would do it for the same reason Zen students do.

In the way Suzuki Roshi uses it Hinayana practice is concerned with disciplined detailed practice, step by step adherence to a method or discipline. Anyone who has been on a Theravadin Vipassana retreat or a Zen Sesshin will know just what I'm talking about.

Mahayana spirit (or mind) is to see the big picture, big mind, to be open, to free the mind to see things from a whole different viewpoint.

This is a balanced approach to practice. Don't get hung up in this school vs that school or this doctrine vs that doctrine. If you only have method and discipline without any capacity to free your mind then you'll hit a dead end, if you have a big mind but no discipline you'll get lost.

I understand what you are saying, but on the other hand, it could also easily be seen as just confusing terminology that we might not really need.

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++++++++++++++++This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

There is freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning. If there were not this freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning, then escape from that which is birth, becoming, making, conditioning, would not be known here. -- Ud 80

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.People live in one another’s shelter.

tiltbillings wrote:I understand what you are saying, but on the other hand, it could also easily be seen as just confusing terminology that we might not really need.

Actually I think the endless Hinyana vs Mahayana threads is what we might not really need. Suzuki Roshi is is a pretty highly regarded teacher, I think he knows what he's doing

"Right effort is effort with wisdom. Because where there is wisdom, there is interest. The desire to know something is wisdom at work. Being mindful is not difficult. But it’s difficult to be continuously aware. For that you need right effort. But it does not require a great deal of energy. It’s relaxed perseverance in reminding yourself to be aware. When you are aware, wisdom unfolds naturally, and there is still more interest." - Sayadaw U Tejaniya

tiltbillings wrote:I understand what you are saying, but on the other hand, it could also easily be seen as just confusing terminology that we might not really need.

Actually I think the endless Hinyana vs Mahayana threads is what we might not really need. Suzuki Roshi is is a pretty highly regarded teacher, I think he knows what he's doing

The problem is that the Mahayana stuck us with this unfortunate terminology that is confusing and divisive. I suspect there are a fair few that have taken the notion of hinayana and all its negative baggage seriously when applied to the Theravada, cutting themselves off from the Theravada because it is hinayana, lesser in scope and goal. It is worth the effort to respond to that.

As for Suzuki Roshi, that he uses hinayana in a particular context, which may be okay with that context, but it does not mean we need to use those confusing words in a way that just adds more confusion as to what they mean.

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++++++++++++++++This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

There is freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning. If there were not this freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning, then escape from that which is birth, becoming, making, conditioning, would not be known here. -- Ud 80

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.People live in one another’s shelter.

Goofaholix wrote:I think the endless Hinayana vs Mahayana threads is what we might not really need

Agreed. The search function here (and on other forums) is very powerful but underused. As and when these threads keep popping up (as they invariably will) I think it'd be better for there to just be a link to an identical thread that doubtlessly exists posted and for the thread to be closed. Why keep so many identical threads open? I don't get it.

Goofaholix wrote:I think the endless Hinayana vs Mahayana threads is what we might not really need

Agreed. The search function here (and on other forums) is very powerful but underused. As and when these threads keep popping up (as they invariably will) I think it'd be better for there to just be a link to an identical thread that doubtlessly exists posted and for the thread to be closed. Why keep so many identical threads open? I don't get it.

If you would collect a list of the threads on this subject, that would help greatly. Those than can be merged, would then be merged, lessening the number threads, and having such a list, we could then direct people wondering about this issue to the appropriate thread rather than starting a new one and lessening the crankiness level of those here who get cranky about such threads. All in all it would be a noble thing for you to understake..

.

++++++++++++++++This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

There is freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning. If there were not this freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning, then escape from that which is birth, becoming, making, conditioning, would not be known here. -- Ud 80

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.People live in one another’s shelter.

tiltbillings wrote:All in all it would be a noble thing for you to understake..

'twould be much more practical for me to attempt to compile that list whilst sitting at my computer (in general I use my mobile phone for internet browsing, mainly because my PC is in a rather cold study which takes some time to warm up). I'll have much more time on Monday (my day off), so I'll have a go then. Don't get me wrong, I'm not 'cranky' about it, afterall I could just not bother viewing threads such as these I just don't see the point of so much repetition.

Mawkish1983 wrote:Anyway, thanks Tilt for the suggestion, I'll have a go on Monday

No hurry and seriously, it would be appreciated.

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++++++++++++++++This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

There is freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning. If there were not this freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning, then escape from that which is birth, becoming, making, conditioning, would not be known here. -- Ud 80

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.People live in one another’s shelter.

tiltbillings wrote:The problem is that the Mahayana stuck us with this unfortunate terminology that is confusing and divisive. I suspect there are a fair few that have taken the notion of hinayana and all its negative baggage seriously when applied to the Theravada, cutting themselves off from the Theravada because it is hinayana, lesser in scope and goal. It is worth the effort to respond to that.

As for Suzuki Roshi, that he uses hinayana in a particular context, which may be okay with that context, but it does not mean we need to use those confusing words in a way that just adds more confusion as to what they mean.

True enough, but I think the fact that a well known Mahayana teacher calls his own style of practice "Hinayana" is evidence that they aren't all out to stick it to us and maybe the phrase wasn't just a polemic invented to beat non Mahayanists over the head with.

At the end of the day the usual touted polemic has nothing at all to do with Theravada anyway, however Suzuki Roshis meaning is useful no matter what path you're following.

"Right effort is effort with wisdom. Because where there is wisdom, there is interest. The desire to know something is wisdom at work. Being mindful is not difficult. But it’s difficult to be continuously aware. For that you need right effort. But it does not require a great deal of energy. It’s relaxed perseverance in reminding yourself to be aware. When you are aware, wisdom unfolds naturally, and there is still more interest." - Sayadaw U Tejaniya

Goofaholix wrote:True enough, but I think the fact that a well known Mahayana teacher calls his own style of practice "Hinayana" is evidence that they aren't all out to stick it to us and maybe the phrase wasn't just a polemic invented to beat non Mahayanists over the head with.

Tibetan teachers use the term hinayana in this way quite frequently; however, even that usage is not really appropriate to the Theravada.

++++++++++++++++This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

There is freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning. If there were not this freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning, then escape from that which is birth, becoming, making, conditioning, would not be known here. -- Ud 80

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.People live in one another’s shelter.

tiltbillings wrote:I suspect there are a fair few that have taken the notion of hinayana and all its negative baggage seriously when applied to the Theravada, cutting themselves off from the Theravada because it is hinayana, lesser in scope and goal. It is worth the effort to respond to that.

Indeed.

Metta,Retro.

"When we transcend one level of truth, the new level becomes what is true for us. The previous one is now false. What one experiences may not be what is experienced by the world in general, but that may well be truer. (Ven. Nanananda)

“I hope, Anuruddha, that you are all living in concord, with mutual appreciation, without disputing, blending like milk and water, viewing each other with kindly eyes.” (MN 31)

"When we transcend one level of truth, the new level becomes what is true for us. The previous one is now false. What one experiences may not be what is experienced by the world in general, but that may well be truer. (Ven. Nanananda)

“I hope, Anuruddha, that you are all living in concord, with mutual appreciation, without disputing, blending like milk and water, viewing each other with kindly eyes.” (MN 31)