Religious people believe these things about Atheists because Atheism is something that either doesn't make sense to them, or, by the teachings of
their own religion, would be something to clinch your ticket to hell.

Now there are some religious people that don't care...of course there are always extremists on every side.

But love is from Gods grace and he infuses it like a match into every soul with love including athiest.

This is a very deep subject and I should try like st paul said feed you people with milk instead of meat since understanding in these forums is
lacking.

God implants into souls either by dilligence and workethic or by teachings.

so those athiest have either learned it somewhere or have earned it through their works.

earned graces I mean.

and so what God teaches in our faith is true humility, meaning we are on Earth as christains to recognize where this love comes from and reach an
amazing degree of humility. We give him all the credit.

If love just exist, then no evil should exist, but love is placed in certain souls for different reasons. Some people, many people don't have any
love. Or fake love.

so it's earned.

Now about the crusades. I think they were trying to fight off a muslim takeover, and the wars in the bible had immense signifgance in them.

war is different. But the saints who didn't war like st gemma had the love in her without having to war like some other saints had to.

God also teaches to love your enemies and neighbors, so we are not tuaght to kill people or even hate people for no reason.

and the moral tendencies don't exist in everybody. I grew up with half my friends with no conscience, no love, I grew up that way myself somewhat.

There were no psycho either, neither was I, I just didn't have any love in me when I was younger.

I see this type every day.

So the love that people do have which does have different degrees, is produced by that source called God, and Iv'e felt the difference in my soul
from communion compared to when I was a kid.

The Christians began the Crusades with the goal of taking Jerusalem from the Muslims. Besides that, point. I've always found religion to be one giant
fallacy. Even if you could somehow prove that God exists, you could not prove that it's your religion's God.

If anything, we should all be Agnostics and Deists, not Christians and Atheists (speaking in generalities here).

But love is from Gods grace and he infuses it like a match into every soul with love including athiest.

Love is a human emotion.Its all part of the package that makes us who we are.

and the moral tendencies don't exist in everybody. I grew up with half my friends with no conscience, no love, I grew up that way myself
somewhat.

There were no psycho either, neither was I, I just didn't have any love in me when I was younger.

No conscience?
Then by definition you and your friends were/are psychopaths/sociopaths.
Its different if you know right from wrong and don't care.Only then can you learn to change.

If you have no conscience,no ability to know the difference,then you never will.If you think you do then you need to contact a psychiatric board to
tell them you have found a cure for psychopathic behaviour.It'll be the first time ever a mental illness has been cured.

nixie_nox

Most atheists I know have more morals then anyone else.

And it is better because it is by choice, not as a bribe to get into heaven or a result of a scare tactic.

Atheists can raise a child to be humble,tolerant,kind etc while some believers can raise a child to be superior,intolerant and
bigoted.

As is also true in the reverse, atheists can raise a child to be superior, intolerant and bigoted. Both sides are human after all.
Simple fact of the matter as I am sure you will agree is that the belief system does not define the morals of a person. The person does.
Them saying your group has no morals is the same as your group calling all of them delusional primitive pseudo-savages. Other words nothing more than
the continued name calling and BS that characterizes the conflict.

Because it was sitting on rich trade routes. It being "The Holy City" provided a convenient excuse.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
Most atheists I know have more morals then anyone else.

And it is better because it is by choice, not as a bribe to get into heaven or a result of a scare tactic.

And would you happen to be an atheist as well? It is after all natural for you to look at the group you are a member of in the best light.
Being an outsider I make no such observation, I see the same mix of humanity I see in every other group....... Other words, no better and no worse
than those they oppose but every bit as self-righteous about their belief system as their opponents.

We weren't psycho paths, we just didn't have a conscience. We didn't murder anyone but my freinds would roam the streets looking for harmless
people to woop their ass for fun...

That is called not giving a damn.

I've already stated that if you have no conscience you never will,it is impossible.Psychopathic behaviour stems from a mental illness,there are no
cures for any type of mental illness,just drugs to help keep the symptoms at bay.

and the reason I changed I truly believe my grandmother prayed for me and my conscience changed after I learned about Christ.

you just said it yourself change...

No.I said if you know right from wrong but don't care,you can change that attitude.Thats very different from not knowing and not even being able to
understand.

Watcher-In-The-Shadows

As is also true in the reverse, atheists can raise a child to be superior, intolerant and bigoted. Both sides are human after all. Simple fact of the
matter as I am sure you will agree is that the belief system does not define the morals of a person. The person does.

Of course.And,yes,i do agree.
Its all part of human nature,its in our genetic makeup,and its life and the world around us that dictates how we use those things that make us human.

I gotta tell ya I was about to have a fit at your title OP. Pretty sneaky :-p

I agree completely that morality is part of the human not twhat god gave you or even in my case, Isis gave me. She didn't just give me these lovely
traits or the bad ones we all have. See here is the point I try so hard to make.

If god, or Isis, or Allah, or any deity gave us all these things and knew our future already, what is the point of living? A puppet?

God is omniscient. He knows our past, present and future. So then he already knows our decisions. Ok so once again, what the heck is the point? Some
have told me God's plan is to spread the word to others. Well he already knows who you are going to spread it successfully to and who you won't
reach. Some tell me the purpose of our life is to experience God's world. Ok...well he knows who will expereince and love him and who won't. Another
of my favorite's is to live to love God. Quite the egoistic way to live I think. I just can't fathom, if he is the one and only, that thiese are his
plans.

I once saw a thread here asking the question, why don't athiests like us or respect us (christians I mean).

At every turn I find people instantly and immediately ready to tell me I am wrong or that I just don't get it. Now, I most certainly will not mention
naes and I won't tell you that every Christian I've ever met acts this way. The thing is if christians want to help us find Christ, I think it's
damn impoartant that the ones I met learn a new tactic. Fear, opression, and evangelizing just don't work on many. Be nice and show through example
at how living with Christ actually is. Telling me I am going to hell. That isn't your choice even if I did believe God was the one and only. You
aren't my judge so don't judge again even in God's world. Don't sit and tell me those things. In fact it's best to not even start with the Christ
discussion. I mean don't get me wrong here, you aren't going to win me over because I don't need it.

Oh...I forgot something else...'proving' God's existence is pretty impossible. Telling us it's true because something happened to you doesn't
prove it to us. Where is the morality in that?

The fact is there are moral people on both sides and there immoral people on both sides. OP asked a hell of a question and I salute him. I am so tired
of the high-and-mighty approach on each side. Many christians believe they have it all figured out and that God will solve it all and they never even
TRY to look at the other religions..even just to learn about them. That is total BS.

On the other hand, many athiests I have met look at God like he is the sin. They think they have it all figured out and no 'god' will ever control
them.

You wanna know what I think? It's all bunk. Nobody on any side has it truly figured out. Get over it. Myself included. While typing this I realized I
probably have sounded several times like I am evangelizing for Paganism. If so, I apologize here and now. We're all humans regardless of belief. We
all screw up and we all have our great times.

I wish people would look at evil and love as personal motives and not just from a deity.

That's my opinion anyway and I am sure I am going to hell for it. -shrugs- Well it happens

The 'religous' do not generally believe that those who are not religous have no morals but would rather want to understand why they have morals. For
what philosophical reason do we have morals and why are they as they are. The religous person would say that morals are an objective truth as
predicated by God. On what foundation would the non-religous person build their moral foundation, and why should anyone else have the same morals?

This is the question that religous people would raise, rather than saying that anyone who disagrees with them is immoral.

I gotta tell ya I was about to have a fit at your title OP. Pretty sneaky :-p

Cheers.

God is omniscient. He knows our past, present and future. So then he already knows our decisions. Ok so once again, what the heck is the point?

Such debate brings out the argument that God knows all possible outcomes of our actions,that he knows anything that one chooses to know and can be
known etc.

The fact is there are moral people on both sides and there immoral people on both sides. OP asked a hell of a question and I salute him. I am so
tired of the high-and-mighty approach on each side. Many christians believe they have it all figured out and that God will solve it all and they never
even TRY to look at the other religions..even just to learn about them. That is total BS.

On the other hand, many athiests I have met look at God like he is the sin. They think they have it all figured out and no 'god' will ever control
them.

Two very good points there.

Iggus

The 'religous' do not generally believe that those who are not religous have no morals but would rather want to understand why they have morals.

Well,i never said all religious people say that atheists have no morals.But many people I have spoken to on line do believe it.

I'm proud to say, that being an Atheist, my morals seem to do far more good that most of the religious people I know.

One section of my extended family are Seventh Day Adventist, and spend more time trying to convert everyone else and prepare for the impending
apocalypse than doing any form of good.

I do extensive volunteer work in hospitals and nursing homes, I don't break any of what Christianity calls it's Commandments, not because some
immaterial being told me so, but because it is the right thing to do.

There is no such thing as 'doing as Jesus' would. It's called living a good, moral life. People shouldn't need threats of being sent to a fiery
pit to make them good people.

I'm proud to say, that being an Atheist, my morals seem to do far more good that most of the religious people I know.

Ah the "My dog is better than your dog argument.".
I fail to see how your having morals is somehow better than theres.
Sure Christianities commandment for morals come across at the point of a threat but I have seen plenty of Christians *more than I care to think
about* that have no morals despite the threat. Which is funny because they pretty much seem to think they don't need to since "Jeebus died for
my sins. So I intend to earn it."
Good morals are good morals regardless the excuse for having them.
Not all "religious" people are as you stated just as not all atheists are moral.

There is no such thing as 'doing as Jesus' would. It's called living a good, moral life. People shouldn't need threats of being sent to a
fiery pit to make them good people.

And neither should they need laws and punishments for break those laws.
But they do.

Goddess knows I've never seen a Christian or any religious member do this. [/sarcasm]

I swear many religious members' biggest hobby seems to be judging people. This isn't directed at you but it happens alot. To piggyback on my last
post lemme also say it would be damn nice to see both sides get over it some day. I won't hold my breathe though...I enjoy living :-p

The proof is in the pudding. What an absolutley absurd thing to say. I am sorry, but it is evident to me that you are simply trying to get hits on
this thread. How totally absurd. Either you are an idiot or you have no worldly experience. I'm hoping this is an example of the latter. Threads
like this are embarrasing.

This content community relies on user-generated content from our member contributors. The opinions of our members are not those of site ownership who maintains strict editorial agnosticism and simply provides a collaborative venue for free expression.