August 9, 2011

The purpose of citizen exit polling, say organizers, is to monitor the "integrity" of elections that rely on computerized machines to tally votes. Concerns about the validity of electronic voting machines in the 2004 elections, as well as the mishandling of some 14,000 ballots by the Waukesha county clerk in the recent Supreme Court race, have brought the issue to the fore in Wisconsin and elsewhere.

The ultimate goal, says Jonathan Simon, cofounder of the Election Defense Alliance, is to "draw attention to, expose and change our vote-counting system, which is at the very least vulnerable to manipulation."

So, that sounds as though this is an attempt to amass evidence that will be used to challenge the official results of today's elections.

[Sally] Castleman of the Election Defense Alliance says citizen polling is a necessary check on the system because official ballots are counted in secret and there is no way to verify the accuracy of electronic machines, which she says are vulnerable to mistakes, malfunction and manipulation....

[UW-Madison political science professor Charles] Franklin says the accuracy of exit polls depends on the random selection of polling locations and voters. He says he's not familiar with the work of the Election Defense Alliance, which since its founding in 2006 has conducted citizen exit polling at 60 sites in eight states, but says relying on exit polls as a check on the system "places enormous faith in the ability of exit polls to properly sample voters as they come out of the system."...

I was unaware that any ballots had been mishandled in the recent elections. I remember that there was a temporary error in the unofficial count that was given to journalists, but IIRC that had nothing to do with how the ballots were handled. Who edits that paper's copy?

Ok, I have looked everywhere, and I can't even find anything that says where the recalls are being held today! I'm assuming they're not by me, since I haven't been harassed by pollsters and obnoxious people handing out fliers. But, seriously, where are they being held?

So why are ballots counted in private? Isn't that the problem with all of it. They could automatically scan them all and publish the images. This not a technological challenge today. If we want honest transparency, what could be more so?

Hell, video the polling locations too, and publish that too. If we see the same guy twice, then off to the big house with him.

RonF said...I was unaware that any ballots had been mishandled in the recent elections.

Correct. There was no mishandling of 14,000 ballots by the Waukesha county clerk. The Waukesha county clerk did not handle any ballots.

But asshats like garage and the clown being quoted in the Isthmus article have and will continue to propagate that lie and others, so it does need pushback. The way to do so effectively is not to deny it, but to simply and succinctly call the propagators what they are - liars - and let them defend their statement rather than defend against their statements.

"The purpose of citizen exit polling, say organizers, is to monitor the "integrity" of elections that rely on computerized machines to tally votes."

Oh, good grief. The professionals struggle to get accurate polling data and yet these yahoos want us to accept their data as reliable. These people are either idiots or partisan hacks. I haven't looked into them, but my assumption is the latter. Likely, all they're really after is more fodder for their political harangues and lawsuits.

In districts that will reflect the 2010 census changes. Over this way by Milwaukee, those folks in liberal Shorewood and Whitefish Bay who don't want Alberta Darling will get their wish and join a district represented by Christopher Larson (D-Milwaukee).

8/9/11 10:12 AM Original Mike said...These people are either idiots or partisan hacks.

The answer to that is the claim by a group spokesman that the Waukesha county clerkmishandled 14,000 ballots in the Wisc Supreme court election. They are partisan hacks whose intent is to gather any possible ammunition to justify taking any recall election against a sitting republican to the courts. They will do the same thing over any successful democrat recall.

This is the party whose state leaders tried to overturn the 2010 elections by fleeing the state. The ballot box means nothing to them.

liberals believe all people are iherently good (except for evil conservatives) and that any evil actions by a non-conservative is the result of society and not the individual. Therefore, a little fraud is okay because its not anyone's fault.

I seem to recall seeing pictures of ballot bags that were open and the proper seals not attached.

And I seem to recall recount totals that matched up pretty well with the originals, aside from giving a few more votes to Kloppenburg. So what votes are you claiming were taken out of the ballot bags prior to the recount?

I don't know whether to admire your persistence or to pity your inability to think rationally.

Yes, if - as you seem to think - they're spittle-flecked union hacks and deranged lefties desperate to keep their slice of pie. I suspect you won't be so excited if the turnout is of people fed up with the way Madison and the fleebaggers have shown their ass over the past months.

No matter to me, since I have no skin in the game (other than our bet). If Walker survives, good for him. If he gets tossed, well, you'll get the government you deserve. Good and hard.

Yeah, I remember sitting in the cafeteria of McKinley Elementary School, counting ballots last spring. We were all wearing hoods, the lights were low, we had armed guards at the door and I had to shed blood as part of my oath before I was allowed to see any ballots. It was really creepy.

"He's saying what he often says; it involves fluffy-tailed rodents that store acorns."

Yeah, it's why I stopped following his links. He'll put something out there, people will respond, and rather than discussing the issue forthrightly he'll throw out some non-sequitur. I got fed up with it.

AllenS--I think you were just ahead of me in line. A group of us were flown into Wisconsin at dawn on Charles Koch's corporate jet. Then we were picked up by a limo, given dozens of different fake IDs, and driven to polling places in each of the recall districts.

Tonight we're gonna party with the money Charles gets in tax breaks for his fleet of jets.

The thing is, there was a thread a while back in which he made a valid point, so I still hold out hope that he's willing to engage in honest exchange.

I screwed not noticing the projections were included. I was wrong. But, you did not prove anything [that I saw] that refuted the CBO scoring [that was included in the chart]. Remember, just because the Weekly Standard says something doesn't make it a fact.

Who remembers the primary race in New Hampshire, back in 1988? Going in, McCain had momentum. But the elder Bush won the votes. Governor Sununu (who was a computer expert), ordered that the votes would be done by computer. Leaving no paper trail.

How? All he had to do was switch the phone lines. The computer votes were counted by sending separate tallies to either one machine, or the other. Using two phone lines. (This was before DSL and cable.)

And, the "gift" when the elder Bush won the White House (running against Dukakis), was to give sununu his top job. Sununu became the elder's chief of staff.

What happened next ... is that a story fell into the newspapers ... It reported that Sununu had been using the helicopter of AIR FORCE ONE, to fly himself to dental appointments in New Hampshire. And, to stamp shows in New York City. Oh, and the elder Bush was forced to accept his friend's resignation.

I guess you can always express sadness and a handshake, huh?

James Baker was the real power broker! I wasn't fooled. Nor were the saudis.

You know, it's only when people are shaving their choices close enough to the middle ... that you can cause a brew-ha-ha over machine tallies.

Poll workers are volunteers. They may make minimum wage. They rise before 5:00 am to collect to these jobs. Sometimes these jobs are in someone else's backyard. Set up inside garages.

In other words your troops at the front line aren't going to steal.

Now, going back to Kloppenhoppen. IF there weren't votes to Prosser's tally held back ... Kloppenhoppen would have announced a close shave win. But she'd have had 2500 more votes.

All the media can do is hope you vote for their chosen poison.

At the 50-yard-line ... it seems that's what most of us do.

Do you remember any race where one candidate got a blow out of 60% of the vote?

Perhaps, there was a time in America when you had such a large family ... you could spread out ... and get votes. (But even with the Kennedy's I assumed Joe just married Rose, and climbed on board a ready made machine.)

@garage, You should know by now what constraints are imposed on the CBO. In particular, it's required to assume that whatever Congress says is going to happen will actually happen, no matter how absurd.

As for your earlier source attack on the Weekly Standard, I'd be happy to cite the NYT if it would publish all the facts. But you can read all about media bias in a scholarly journal edited and published at Harvard if you want to learn why it's a good idea to look beyond the Times for your information.

Actually, you may like the study, since PBS comes off a lot better than the NYT. But I think that's because the study couldn't quantify tonal inflection.

"@garage, You should know by now what constraints are imposed on the CBO. In particular, it's required to assume that whatever Congress says is going to happen will actually happen, no matter how absurd."

When the CBO came out with their ObamaCare scoring, Elmendorf felt compelled to make this point explicitly. I wonder why he felt it necessary to do this?

The Elecion Defense Alliance is a project of the International Humanities Center.

The mission statement of IHC:

The core mission of the International Humanities Center (IHCenter) is to foster those efforts that are devoted to a vision of ecological and humanitarian stewardship that benefits all of creation. IHCenter seeks to reverse the current situation of disconnection - which has led to so much misery for all lifeforms on the planet - by assisting projects that are focused on creating a civilization centered upon peace, trust and natural harmony.

Not as I understand it. She "mishandled" a computer keyboard in such a way that information on the number of votes cast did not get copied to the next step in the process. Information which was one recording among several, I would guess, and created a discrepancy which was obvious to several people (the Profressor included) almost immediately.

It this kind of c**ppy innuendo that makes me dispair of higher education and the redemption of the Democrats these days.

The core mission of the International Humanities Center (IHCenter) is to foster those efforts that are devoted to a vision of ecological and humanitarian stewardship that benefits all of creation. IHCenter seeks to reverse the current situation of disconnection - which has led to so much misery for all lifeforms on the planet - by assisting projects that are focused on creating a civilization centered upon peace, trust and natural harmony.

You probably don't need to worry Garage. Like the Democrats, the Republicans ran away from the budget issue. Big mistake for them. It reduced the races to smear campaigns on both sides. That tends to turn off all but the most organized voters.

Jonathan Simon, a graduate of Harvard College and New York University School of Law, is a member of the Bar of Massachusetts. As a result of his prior experience as a political survey research analyst for Peter D. Hart Research Associates in Washington, he became an early advocate for an exit poll-based electoral "burglar alarm" system, independent of media and corporate control, to detect computerized vote shifting in Election 2004. In the absence of such a system, he was nevertheless able to capture and analyze critical official exit poll data briefly posted on the web prior to its election-night disappearance, data which served as an initial basis for questioning the validity of Election 2004. Dr. Simon is a member of Alliance for Democracy and We Do Not Concede, and has worked closely with several key election integrity organizations, including National Ballot Integrity Project and National Election Data Archive. He has authored or coauthored several papers addressing statistical anomalies and other evidence of computerized election fraud, and...

http://www.thealliancefordemocracy.org/"ALLIANCE FOR DEMOCRACY is a new Populist movement --- not a political party --- setting forth to end the domination of our economy, our government, our culture, our media and the environment by large corporations. THE ALLIANCE brings people together to build a progressive populist movement to end the corporate domination of our economy, our government, our culture, our media and the environment. It is time to end corporate rule.[...]"

"We Don Not Concede" seems to be an org claimim Kerrey won n 2004 but BushChimpyMcHitler stole the election again! The web site is no longer active though.

I cannot believe how dumb the majority of the people are on here. just dumb!

democrats don't reduce regulation that's what repubs do. you know, don't tread on me and all that nonsense?

You saw how well deregulation made everything sooo much better in America under W. Do you all say "what a sunny day!" when it's storming outside, as well?

You guys actually want to break unions?

incredible. Unions keep the the workers from being exploited, and you're Anti that?

Unions have a stake in keeping a business going, not destroying it. if it's destroyed the union is out of business.

some of you are probably still under the idea that ozzy osbourne wants his fans to kill themselves too. makes for a pretty crappy follow up record if your fan base is all dead! Think for a moment. That's the equivalent of what you're accusing unions

Did the majority of you fail common sense or what?

Exit Polls are not a way to destroy secret ballot, as a few ertards suggested. that's why it's done on the way OUT of the polling station other wise known as the EXIT, so there is no voter intimidation.

They are also not 100% reliable (of course people lie-generally the republicans, as stated by some here on the comments) but it DOES create a general picture of the turnout.

And as far as stealing elections goes... republicans invented having dead people vote for them. So go ahead, Hit snooze a couple more times!

in 2004 George W had 250,000 people vote for him in a town in Ohio that only had a population of 6000.

*pfthbtpthfftht* not W! republicans are honest!

Also, Democrats don't want the government to run everything. They just know they're getting shafted by corporations. The role of government is to protect the welfare of it's people. So, they're asking the government to level the playing field. If anyone can't understand that, then they're dumber than dirt.

republicans are outside right now talking about how they want the government out of their lives but they want to tell people who they can marry, they want to say who can come into the country, they want the government to be able to decide who is able to be sued, they want people to be stopped for any reason... Just to name a few.

How is that government out of our lives?

I'll take the government in my life any day, because as Wi. is demonstrating right now, you can remove and elected official at any time.

You ever try to recall the Koch Bros. How about the CEO of Nike? Good luck with that.

you can drink the kool aid all you want and say it's water, but everyone knows it's still the kool aid.

So, go on drinking the kool aid but don't legislate everyone else into drinking it along with you.

So now we know why the Democrats are so against voter ID laws. Who is to say that exit polls are any more accurate than the machines. I can tell you I voted for Micky Mouse. Why should I tell you the truth? I like to exercise my right to a "secret" ballot.

[quote]So now we know why the Democrats are so against voter ID laws. [/quote]

not at all. they are against it because it singles out the folks that don't have residential stability in their lives (college students, the poor that chase jobs all over the place and therefore have to move cities) and are therefore more likely to vote democrat. You can't be this stupid. There is no way!!! I refuse to believe this. which means you are misdirecting on purpose.

[reply]Who is to say that exit polls are any more accurate than the machines.[/reply]

didn't know this was up for debate. how funny, repubs want to complain about the accuracy of machines when it is they who have reaped the benefits of machine voting... It is they that own the companies that own the machines. Perhaps Obama got a better hacker than your guy... why are you jelly?

[reply]I can tell you I voted for Micky Mouse. Why should I tell you the truth? [/reply]

I agree, republicans are not to be trusted. Why should you tell the truth? you really need an answer to that?

Republican Mantra... "Why tell the truth when a lie will work?"

surprised you all were so anti bill Clinton. His affairs were no ones business, why should he tell the truth about it?

[reply]I like to exercise my right to a "secret" ballot[/quote]

Perhaps that's what you should tell the exit pollster, that way you are not lying and still staying secret.

everyone thank you for the ad hominems. I knew they were coming, thank you easily used tools...

as for this Fellow,

[quote]Except there was no "deregulation" unless you count the passage and implementation of Sarbanes-Oxley as "deregulation," Idiot.[/quote]

Gulf of Mexico caused by the British Petroleum oil spill, peanut butter factories salmonella outbreak,and deregulation of the financial sector was a major cause of the mortgage loan collapse

Deregulation is the mantra of President George W. Bush and all of the other Repubs before him... "Let the private sector fight it out... ...the market regulates itself." which, as you can see, it does not.

they deregulated permit rules so companies could dump in our water without public notice or comment.

the majority of the W meetings (if it wasn't defense lobbyists)were from anti regulation lobbyist.