Posted
by
timothyon Thursday October 29, 2009 @05:23PM
from the time-for-some-side-talkin' dept.

lbalbalba writes "This morning, Nintendo announced the third upgrade to the DS family, the DSi LL (or DSi XL). It will be released in Japan on November 21, one year after the DSi debuted, for ¥20,000 (approx. $220). The LL's main improvement is the size of its screens, which have been increased from 3.25" to 4.2" with a moderate increase to the size of the chassis. The device also includes a much bigger stylus, which looks to be the size of a ballpoint pen, and battery life has reportedly been increased to five hours at maximum screen brightness."

The target market for this DS is big and growing. Older people (parents, etc) find the current DS line with screens that are too small - now Nintendo sees a huge market for large screens and less agile hands.

Nintendo's no longer just a "kiddy" company - their products are aimed at everyone, particularly non-gamers. Nintendo might not win the console wars, but they'll infiltrate the homes of everyone else.

Actually, the GBASP and the original DS use the same power adapter. DSLite's is different. I'm not sure if the DSLite power adapter works with the DSi or not. Also not sure about the GBA Micro. The original GBA used AA batteries and didn't have a power cable.

The DSi uses a different power adapter. Presumably, that's because it takes a different amount of current in, but I've seen a USB power adapter at Gamestop that claims to be able to charge the DSLite and DSi. I haven't been able to find it online so I didn't buy it because I don't want to blow up my DSi, but I'm not sure whether they really changed the plug for safety reasons or just to make people buy new ones.

Nintendo's no longer just a "kiddy" company - their products are aimed at everyone, particularly non-gamers. Nintendo might not win the console wars, but they'll infiltrate the homes of everyone else.

I think their products have been aimed at everyone for a long time. Look how many NES' Nintendo shipped (over 60 million). Tetris on the Gameboy was HUGE! Nintendo sold over 100 million Gameboys. The original Mario Brothers was an arcade like game that worked with two players. Their products are not aimed at "non-gamers". Their products are designed to *create* gamers. Maybe not the gamers the "hardcore" or the "game industry" thinks of (M-rated of course), but gamers none-the-less.

I really hate the stupid "hardcore" term. To me, hardcore gamers we created on the NES. Just because a game is rated M, doesn't make it hardcore. Quite frankly, it is more about the gamer than the games. And not all M rated games are bad. There are plenty of E and T rated games that are utter garbage.

Only for 2nd place. Nobody reasonably thinks the 360 or PS3 will ever surpass the Wii. It would take two years for the PS3 to catch up, even if the Wii stopped all sales completely, today; and since the Wii is still currently outselling the PS3 and 360, the gap is getting larger every week.

That said, I think the Wii hasn't yet hit the halfway point of getting to the PS2's sales, so it's still got at least a few more years before it starts setting records. the PS2

"Only due to a deliberate decision by Nintendo to *not* increase production."

Which was a smart idea. To increase production would have required an additional factory. When they finally DO meet demand, they'd simply have an extra factory to maintain and lost money in building it. Their decision cost them an immediate access to the demand but secured a steady revenue stream for years.

No matter how "hardcore" gamers view Nintendo, it's hard to not respect their business savvy.

I don't see how a shortage of stock and rampant hoarding equates to a successful product launch. Had Nintendo not botched the launch supply, they probably would have sold far more Wiis. A lot of people got tired of waiting and bought something else, or they waited for the early adopters to get bored (they all do), and bought one second-hand.

The problem with the Wii is it has no staying power. It has too few "killer games", thus is relegated to being that thing you fire up when you have company over, who

On the other hand, Nintendo's profits fell by over 50% [reuters.com] last quarter over the same quarter last year. Additionally, the PS3 outsold the Wii in September in the US, taking the top spot in console sales.

The PS3 had a short-term spike due to the introduction of a new model. It has since dropped back down to below the Wii. The pertinent question is whether the new PS3 model will be able to continue outselling the 360.

Not knocking the PS3, it's a great console; but neither Sony or MS come close to approaching Nintendo's success this gen.

On the other hand, Nintendo's profits fell by over 50% [reuters.com] last quarter over the same quarter last year. Additionally, the PS3 outsold the Wii in September in the US, taking the top spot in console sales.

Perhaps not, but read that Reuters stupidity with huge grains of salt.Because it's full of BS.Nintendo's profits may have fell by over 50 %, but they're still far ahead of their competitors despite that.Sony game division nearly lost as much (-$600M+) as Nintendo earned in profit ($700M+) this quarter, and MS game division earned $169M in profit this same quarter.Nintendo still post quarterly profits that the other players in the game industry rarely reach in a full fiscal year.In H1, Nintendo earned $1.2B

Laptops are expected to be able to do the SAME thing as your desktop though(with the exception of high end current games), in portable form. Take the same tech and shrink it, it will cost more.

But no laptop can do what a desktop does for the same price, and you already thrown in an exception in your statement, that renders it irrelevant.Besides, there are several things that the DS can do that the Wii can't.So what's your point?

Except that the DS is far from being capable of the same things as modern consoles. A laptop could be set up to run a 64-bit OS with 8 gigs of RAM, store a half terabyte of data and render DX11-level graphics smoothly at 1280x800 or higher, which is what many full-sized desktops are used for today. Expensive, yes.

The DS, on the other hand, is running substantially weaker hardware than current consoles, with graphical capabilities roughly on-par with the Nintendo 64. From a technical perspective, that falls pretty far short of the major consoles.

And the Wii isn't exactly very powerful either. Even if the DS is only as powerful as the N64, it's still only one generation weaker than the Wii, which is basically a Gamecube with a fancy controller.

The DS hasn't really sustained even Nintendo 64 levels of 3d power. Of IGN's top 25 DS games, only about 1/3rd are in 3D. I'd guess that most people view the DS as the gaming equivalent of a Flash Player.

Which is why it's interesting that it has a commanding lead over the much more capable PSP. I guess technical capabilities don't necessarily lead to better game experiences.

Except that the DS is far from being capable of the same things as modern consoles. A laptop could be set up to run a 64-bit OS with 8 gigs of RAM, store a half terabyte of data and render DX11-level graphics smoothly at 1280x800 or higher, which is what many full-sized desktops are used for today. Expensive, yes.

The DS, on the other hand, is running substantially weaker hardware than current consoles, with graphical capabilities roughly on-par with the Nintendo 64. From a technical perspective, that falls pretty far short of the major consoles.

The problem with what you're saying is exposed in the end: from a technical perspective.But the DS and the Wii are NOT sold as technical objects, they are NOT in the technology business. Wii and DS are in the entertainment business, and thus are sold as such, their value is in the entertainment realm, and this is what determines their price, not technology.And in the same way, the "modern consoles" are far from being capable of the same things as the DS, so this argument is void.Even the laptop you describe

>>>No, it should read PS2/PS1 (in the more natural #1/#2 order, instead of the OP's Sony-diminishing reverse order)

(rolls eyes)

Kiddies, kiddies, stop fighting. It doesn't matter that was my whole point. And for those who wondered why I chose a PS2 and Gamecube instead of an Xbox, it's because the Cube and Box were essentially tied and there was little on the Xbox that interested me, but the Gamecube had Metroid and Mario Sunshine and Zelda, so I picked that one.

It's the same price (in Japan). The Wii is ¥20,000 in Japan, and apparently so is the DSi LL.
It looks like you're converting the price of the DSi LL against the weak dollar and using the $220 price, and comparing that against the US price of the Wii ($199).

Not if your portable is still outselling your home system, which in turn is outselling all competitors. That probably indicates you're doing something right. It's not like products are 'supposed' to be certain prices.

I'm wondering where the demand for this was? It's not like they're increasing the resolution and now the DS size history has gone from its original size, shrunk down to the Lite version, then the DSi came out which was comparable to the Lite, and now they're making it larger than the original DS with the XL.

But Nintendo usually knows what they're doing, as long as they don't color it red and require it be strapped to your face, that is.

According to a recent Cnet article it seems as if the handheld has had to be almost completely re-designed around the display, the physical dimensions of the device are (when closed), 161mm wide, 91.4mm height and a 21.2mm depth.

It also suggests checking out the image on CNET's article [cnet.com], which appears to be the same image as in the story/. linked to, except it shows the dimensions.

Hunh. so it's 16cm wide. A NES controller is 12cm wide for comparison (DS Lite is 14). That puts it on par with an SNES controller, which is pretty comfortable. Unfortunately the DS XL uses the same buttons as the DS Lite, which are fucking tiny. I think I would have been a lot happier with a half inch smaller screen with SNES-sized D-Pad and ABXY buttons. Not bad though.

It's for the old people they introduced to gaming with the Wii. Now they have a handheld they can see with their aging eyes, and probably a larger stylus they can grasp with their arthritic hands. If you spend a lot of time in doctor's waiting rooms, these things come in handy.

I'm not all that old, but yes I have spent a lot of time in doctor's waiting rooms reading books on the original DS since the thing fits in a jacket pocket. So far I've been through Lord Jim (Conrad), Treasure Island and part way through King Solomon's Mines.

I believe they mentioned that customers were asking for bigger screens on surveys. Also, speaking anecdotally, I remember my mom wondering aloud "how can you see anything on that tiny screen?" several times with the older Gameboys and the original Nintendo DS. Of course, she now uses a smartphone with a screen that's not much bigger, so I suppose she's got that worked out now.

Something like this actually tempts original DS owners like myself, which I suppose is the way to sell them since the main mode of failure for a DS seems to be theft.It would be nice with the "100 classics book collection" as an ebook reader (original screen is a bit dark) and nice for the "colors" howebrew in paticular.

The one person who uses his NDS Lite more than any other person I know is my 63 year old father. He likes to play all those brain games as well as card/puzzle games and those My Language Coach series. His only complaint - the size of the screen and the size of the stylus.

"Casual gamers"? Are you kidding? Hardcore gamers want it, too. I wasn't going to bother getting a DSi because it didn't offer anything over the DS for me. Now that it's got a larger screen, I'm probably going to import it. (I'm learning Japanese, too, so the import is so I can get the Japanese DSi games. The downloadable ones, at the very least, are locked to the region.)

Nintendo has been trying to broaden its market with handhelds the same way that they have with the Wii. Games like brain age, professor layton and the Personal Trainer series appeal to and older crowd but the small screen size can make it rather limited. My mother for instance loves her DS but constantly complains about the text being too small or icons being indistinguishable, a larger screen size would be great for her. Based on the included bundle that appears to be the audience they are going for...smart idea IMHO.

One of the comments that came out from people reviewing the PSP Go was that the screen looked "sharper" because it was smaller with the same resolution as the PSP 3000. Wouldn't this just have the opposite effect for the DSi? As it is the DSi has a rather low resolution and I'd be worried that increasing the screen size will just make games "bigger and uglier". I'm skeptical that this is going to do anything but highlight the shortfalls of the system; it being both the oldest and the slowest architecture on the market.

I'm skeptical that this is going to do anything but highlight the shortfalls of the system; it being both the oldest and the slowest architecture on the market.

Actually the DSi has a fair bit more processor power (and memory I believe) than the DS, but few devs have taken advantage of it (for many games it's not really necessary, and obviously at this point the original DS still has a lot more market share).

16 megs instead of 4 megs ram, clock speed is about doubled. Still no powerhorse, but enough to make a noticeable difference in games... except nobody's made games for it, yet. It mainly perked my interest in emulation and modding, though; the web browser that barely worked in 4mb might do a pretty good job in 16mb.

note: the web browser for the original DS and DS lite used an extra ram pack in the GBA cart slot (there are two variants of the rampack, one that looks like a GBA cart and a smaller one designed to sit flush in a DS lite).

One of the comments that came out from people reviewing the PSP Go was that the screen looked "sharper" because it was smaller with the same resolution as the PSP 3000. Wouldn't this just have the opposite effect for the DSi? As it is the DSi has a rather low resolution and I'd be worried that increasing the screen size will just make games "bigger and uglier". I'm skeptical that this is going to do anything but highlight the shortfalls of the system; it being both the oldest and the slowest architecture on the market.

You can be worried. But this isn't aimed at the tiny group of people that care about this.Instead, this is aimed at older people that don't care one bit about these silly technical things, and just want to entertain themselves.The games are not ugly to most people owning a DS, and actually most people don't care about that.

And don't care either about highlighting shortfalls. The DS is on its way to become the most successful dedicated videogame system in history, already at 110+ millions units sold in 5 yea

I kept wep on my router longer than I should have because I just liked playing Mario Kart just that much. I lost my dslite and thought to buy the new model, but it still doesn't support wpa, just wep. I decided I wasn't going to switch back just for one game, and opted instead to buy nothing. Maybe I'll get the new one if it can do wpa, but if not, no sale.

I'll admit, I don't own a DSi... but why should the game care? It's the console that's doing the network connection, and once that data is past your access point, it's no longer in a WiFi format anyway!

My guess would be because it is easier and more secure to keep the actual network stack in the game code. If it is in the game (as in on cartridge rather than in a ROM on the DS) it can be upgraded and modified by the developer as needed. For instance, say a vulnerability were found that allowed Mario Kart to connect to a rogue server for the purpose of cheating or piracy or any other damn reason. You could easily fix the vulnerability and include it newer versions of the game. It will also be patched in an

Larger screens, more legible text, better wifi features... perhaps Nintendo is trying to break into the e-book reader market with this device. After all, e-book readers are popular in the DS homebrew scene, which Nintendo is not totally unaware of, and a company with Nintendo's clout could arrange a deal with Amazon for a Kindle app. I have limited pocket space, and when I'm on the go, I know I'd rather carry around a sightly larger DS than a DS and a Kindle...

I remember the good ol' days when the gameboy color could entertain you for days and days without the need to replace (or recharge) your batteries. The battery life alone would make me not buy this.

As it happens, this device has some of the best battery life of any device you're likely to find.

I never use anything more than minimum brightness indoors. You won't need max brightness except in sunlight. Although, my DS lite goes so long between charges (on minimum), I couldn't really say how long it lasts exactly.

I used to get way more than 5 hours on my 1st-gen. If this is how things are now then I'll never be buying one of these.

Jesus, the reading comprehension of ACs... Less than 5 hours on maximum brightness, which is considerably brighter than the 1st gen. On the lowest brightness setting, I consistently get 10+ hours, some pages on the net say it's 15-18 hours, and this new DSi should improve on that too.

I remember the good old days where you barely even see what you were doing on a Gameboy / Gameboy Color / Game Boy Advance because the screen was so atrocious that it only worked in direct sunlight. I expect backlighting and other advances come at a cost to battery life.

They've done very well doing new and different. They have done just as well (possibly more so) taking what they know works and making small changes. If you doubt this at all, come by and look at my stack of Zelda games some time. If you wait a while you can check out Zelda: Spirit Tracks with me - I can't wait to play it.

Not really though. Backwards compatibility is key for portable games. For example the Game Boy Advance SP had perhaps the largest library for any portable game console. The GBA SP (along with the first GBA) could play games from 1989 to 2007. Few consoles can play 18 years of games without any emulation. And when the games are cheap ($30 when they were new, and you can get them for $10 max used) that gives the average person a huge game library without much initial investment. Even though Super Mario Land wasn't exactly the most advanced games, no was it that long but it still was fun. Now Nintendo has the DS (and Lite) that can play games from 2001-present and the DSi that can play physical games from 2004-present along with downloadable games. A major new console would more than likely change the hardware in a radical way, if you don't have either 2 screens or don't have one as a touch screen the DS games are nearly unplayable. Without a large back catalog they probably won't gain much traction (just look at how much of a failure the PSP Go is since it doesn't have a UMD drive).

Now with it's two wide screens they will finally listen to my demands for it to play two movies at the same time! or watch a movie on the top wile playing an old 1 screen game on the bottom, the options are endless mwaahahahha!.... seriously two screen even bigger... don't really see how this is going to improve their sales, they might as well make a four screen device...

I haven't purchased a DSi yet, but I want one. Truth be told, I'd probably lean towards the one with the bigger screen. I think I'm part of their target market, one of those people who haven't purchased a DSi yet.

The only reason to switch is if a killer app you really want comes out which won't work on your current DS. For me that's WPA wireless on the DSi etc, and a big screen would be nice, but I'm not touching it until somebody less lazy than me cracks it to allow homebrew software to run.Perhaps they just want to expand their market and sell it to people that didn't buy a DS because they want bigger screens.

Though, another killer feature would be something like the Wii Shop Channel for DS, to download virtual console games, or even DS games, and web browser for the DS. This would be best facilitated with a modest flash chip, say 4gb or 8gb.

It apparently has all this with online downloads, newer Opera web browser and enough memory to run it, and a card slot for flash storage. It isn't that nice to have to buy the GBA games again as files or use some piracy tool to play roms but the machine is capable of runnin

You're not supposed to switch, any more than you should buy a new DS because they introduce a new color. This is just a different variant of the DSi. They've kept all specs except for physical size the same.

There's no reason for anybody to get this if they are satisfied with the size of the standard DS screen... and if they AREN'T satisfied, this is a good option to have.

Really? I've even got linux on the original DS, you don't need huge amounts of real memory to get it to do things especially now that they have storage on SD cards. More memory is always nice but not always essential.