True, should never have a Southern Hemisphere ref they seem to favour there own, penalties justified pity he didn’t do it when the other side done them, did the ref have a sa shirt on under his own. He was always flagging against wales last week when he was a linesman. South African should not have yellow carded if you read the rules it’s a red card as there was intent, pity he never quoted that one

I was half way through a victory beer.. Utterly gut wrenching. I think we have to be the world champions of stealing defeat from the jaws of victory. Much better but giving away 14 points in the last 10 minutes of each half is criminal.. Has to be psychological rather than fitness. If we were 10 points behind at 70 I’m sure we would have been a different team. Seems we play more confidently when we’re losing. Needs to be addressed, somehow!

Seriously though, after last week this was a huge improvement. But getting a SH scalp away is getting nigh on impossible with the breaks they get from the refs and unfortunately no one in the NH is really good enough at the moment. I do feel the gap is closing though and with NH based world cup I think we’ll all have a chance.

Northern v Southern Hemisphere rugby has to be the most corrupt game ever. That tackle was nothing. The bok bench were actually laughing because they couldn’t believe that they had got away with it. Having a Southern Hemisphere ref down there to ref northern hemisphere teams is a joke.

We will never be allowed to beat any of the Southern Hemisphere teams because they will keep making exceptions.

Let’s put this tackle into context. If South Africa or New Zealand were defending that lead and they had to make a tackle similar they would have got away with it and we would not have got as much as a penalty. I hope Steve Walsh has his badges taken off him the boy is a joke

If he had made a ‘legal’ tackle , would he not have still driven him into touch?. Yes he may have scored if a tackle was not made, but he was inches off touch and a legal or illegal tackle would have taken him out. So how can a penalty try be awarded if a legal move would have resulted in the same as an illegal move?? Or have i misses a point here??

Walsh did explain it to AWJ – if an illegal tackle is made then the decision is based on ruling the tackler out ie what would have happened if he was not there. It’s not an interpretation I’ve heard before but I’ve not see this situation that much before. Based on what he said it seemed reasonable.

Seriously – we lost because we didn’t control the ball and the game in the last ten, the pen try was just a manifestation of us being behind on the pitch. We need to get better. At least we played some rugby and on the same day that England were mullered. Not taking joy from the English result, but with us improving and them dropping way off it rubbishes the notion that was starting to spread that England were somehow only a notch off the ABs and Wales were going to be lucky to even be competitive for the next few years. We are all a lot, lot closer than people have been thinking for a few months. I was at Twickers and saw a non defended tap penalty and two 2 on 1s for Wales butchered but all I’ve heard since that game is how busted Wales are and how ascendant England are. It’s all levelled out now. Nobody in the NH is looking down in anyone else at the mo I’d say.

None of the Welsh supporters? Have you spoken to all of them then? I have no issues with the refereeing – all the yellow cards deserved (just give the try away if you have to, keep the men on the pitch you idiots), LW was lucky not to get a yellow. We lost the match because we didn’t defend well enough (what the heck has happened to George North?), our lineout was woeful and we had 13 men for ten mins. Stupid. Heart rending. Typical.

I’ve got no problem with the penalty try, it was a penalty, therfor, had to be pen try. ken owens try was dodgy, BUT, it is typical of refs like walsh, 17- 0 up, we were not suppose to win . Last 10 mins before h/t, he started to give them everything. charteris should have been warned,first offence, why was bigger yellowed? there was also 2 tries for them with very dubious forward passes- he never even thought of going upstairs, s . African tv never showed replays of both passes from side. refs slant on rules, especially at break down is so personalised, rules have to be changed to be clearer for everyone. refs then have an easier job to ref difficult and objective situations, I do feel that most refs give decisions , and they ref the teams (ie. n/z , s/a austraia are supposed to beat the northern hem teams , and therefor give them the majority of pens) and not the game itself. we do however need to see the games out, mentally, we are closing the gap, but not quite there yet.

The mid-air tip tackle when the SA forward pushes up Alun Wyn-Jones’ foot and leg should have been red. In any match anywhere in the Europe it would have been.

The deliberate knock-on at the end of the match by SA player when the ball was clearly batted forward with an open and no attempt was made to catch it again not given as it was very kickable.

Again that was so blatant.

Had these offences been committed by Wales against SA then Steve Walsh would have not hesitated in giving red and later on a penalty to ensure the SA won.

Walsh was looking to give SA every decision as he did not want to be the ref when Wales finally won in SA.

Yet again a referee is to blame for a defeat and these things will NEVER change. The IRB Referees section will just close ranks, make excuses, cover for Steve Walsh and non-Welsh rugby followers will just accuse Wales of bleating.

This Welsh rugby fan is accusing you of bleating. What a load of self pitying rubbish. I suggest you need to watch a different sport – something more like chess where it’s all a lot clearer exactly what is happening. Wales are to blame for that loss. I hope the squad shows more fortitude than you. I hope they, and I think they will, realise that it was theirs to win or lose and they lost it. Only by accepting that can they push on to better things. Blaming the ref is a cowards easy way out.

As you don’t know any History, he was Speaker of the HoC in the 1970s who became
the ‘pet’ Welshman of the English establishment. He was famous for pouring scorn and abuse
on his own countrymen.

As a poet once wrote of him

‘Orgasmic in ermine, the higher he climbed the greasy pole the acider the urine that he p+ssed down on his own people’.

Next you’ll want to read the lesson at a royal wedding or take ‘Mam’ out for love day
at Caernarfon Castle for the investiture of the next Saxe-Coburg-Gothe-Battenburg as another imported Prince of Wales.

Move to Surrey or even Berkshire as the new Lord Tonypandy and insteadof pretending
to be Welsh, you can be by residence become what you always always wanted to be …….I hope you know the words to

Jog on Enoch. Let’s not try and play “most educated” top trumps, you will lose. You’re trying to hide behind nationalism as an excuse for your inability to stand up and see that game for what it was. An excellent match, fairly reffed, lost by Wales. Your prejudices make no difference to that. Stop seeing anti welsh sentiment everywhere.

I still regard Brighty as a one eyed Welshman, and anyone who says otherwise clearly does not read this blog which is bizarre as Enoch is a fairly regular commentator.

Brighty, as to your earlier rugby related comments, I have said many times on here that you arent as good or bad as your last game. Still think England have nipped in front of Wales, but not by much. Think Gats has some minor rebuilding to do. Some players getting over the hill.

As to North, the same comment could be levelled at any number of NH players. The season is too long and the players are paying the price. Launchbury and Brown to name 2 were shadows of the players they have been for most of the season in N Z.

Staggy, I hope it is just tiredness for North. He seems to have become a complete liability on the field – no defensive sense or ability. I can’t understand it, he’s looked good for Northampton but for us he’s been a total letdown.

I can see what you mean about England but right now, if we played right now, I’m not sure who would win which would mean I would back Wales. From what I’ve read, and Ian Robertson was saying it all over five live as well before yesterday’s game, next years RWC group was now for Eng and Aus to fight it out. Everyone can now see we are back in the mix and I think we can get better. I expect to see Samson Lee, Davies, Morgan etc get more caps in the autumn and expect to see a tips/Warbs backrow. Looking forward to it now.

I agree with the NH v SH comments, but with regards to the try itt was the correct decision. However, we should not have been in that position. And we still had time and opportunities to win the game after the penalty try. We worked the phases, went back slightly, but then got back on the front foot. We didn’t show the patience that SH sides have, to maintain pressure, keep possession, force an error or penalty, or get yourself into the drop goal zone. You don’t try one from 50m when you just dropped short from 40m! How thick are we? Biggar brings a lot to the game, but not enough, and unfortunately, questions have to be asked of Gatlands ability to coach a game. We don’t seem able to change tack during a game if the plan isn’t working. And what james hook has done to deserve such disrespectful treatment over the last two years…. To have a player of that calibre on the bench and almost never use him…? If you don’t want him, don’t pick him at all, but don’t embarrass the boy. It was better yes. But we lost, and need to stop think that it’s acceptable to nearly beat these sides. How many of these games have we thrown away over the last few years? Got no problem being beaten, but this is another that we lost. We have so much talent in this side, we can score tries from anywhere, but we keep kicking the ball away. It doesn’t matter who you are facing, if they haven’t got the ball, they can’t score points. Ok, rant over, it’s just that I love my rugby, love my national side, and hate us doing ourselves another injustice. On our day we can beat anyone, if we want to…..

Shame on the ref
Wales were robbed by poor decisions biased to South Africa.
Very unlucky with last penalty try in hindsight would have been best to let them score in the corner as I doubt they would have converted the try in the corner.
I’m not welsh but english by the way.

Great discussions all !! I was wondering about Wales supporter views after this game and “stumbled” across this discussion group ( uhm… as a SA supporter of course (-: )

My view:
1. Incredible committed effort from Wales
2. At no time did I believe SA will claw back
3. We witnessed our team showing signs of “Bok-koors” ( Bok-fever – not taking control like All Blacks always seem to do.
4. Referees – we will always have issues for argument but good use of technology and clear explanations as we witnessed here, has certainly elevated rugby above i.e.. WC Soccer ref chaos
5. Often more concerned about decisions NOT made, than the ones that are thoroughly scrutinised ( remember SA in last World – cup? )
6. Last minute P-Try. Legal tackle WOULD have resulted in line out – and we will never know what would have resulted from there. Illegal tackle decision? – well, we know the outcome.

Honest feelings? – I sat there – glued to the screen – having already conceded the match – to the best performance from Wales in SA, that I have ever personally witnessed ( in my 61 years )

And like the SA players – I also smiled – but simply because I could not believe ……

I didn’t see this so perhaps someone can can tell me whether the closeness was due to SA taking Wales too lightly after the last result, Wales really picking up their game or a little bit of both?

Also, is there a third game or not? Shame if there isn’t

PS – Brighty, I read that Phillips played well. Given that he only seems to do so once every year at the moment, are you a little concerned that this result will encourage Gatland to keep on selecting him?

I wouldn’t say SA took Wales too lightly. I think Wales definitely improved from last week, they were more accurate with a lot less mistakes. SA seemed to make a lot more mistakes than last week (dropping high balls, knock ons) part of which I think can be attributed to the pressure Wales put on them. So a bit of both I’d say.

No third game.

Phillips had his best game since v England ’13. Yes it’s a concern that Gatland will now continue to pick him.

I agree with Anarky – Wales played really well*. Physical and fast. Phillips at the fulcrum of a lot of it. Passes were quick and incisive or runs were taken immediately and yards made. Yes, it’s now a concern that this gives him another 24 month free pass to be rubbish.

*but not well enough. Lineout was a shambles, scrum was up and down (pun intended), ruck intensity not good enough in last quarter and kicking was a bit hit and miss.

This was an all round great game. Wales ran the Boks from one side to the other tiring out the big guys.
Walsh seemed to forget that your not supposed to drive in the scrums until the ball is in (boks pushed early on almost every scrum)
however neither scrum half put the ball in straight and no-one was penalised.
With Williams – he should have let the try in, the boks weren’t kicking well and wouldn’t have got a touchline conversion.

it’s a pity there is no third test it would have been very interesting.

In reply to an earlier post about Wales in comparison to England. I think at the moment England are ahead of Wales in a number of areas, though I admit New zealand are certainly ahead of England in even more.

I don’t believe there is a lot to gain from comparing Wales’ second test of the series against SA to Englands third test against NZ. There are a huge amount of factors, NZ being a better side than SA, the fact that a team playing its third game of a series at the end of a season is bound to be more tired than a team playing its second etc (Wales had the extra weeks break). Perhaps it would be better to compare Engand’s second test, a score lost also by a one point margin. Though i appreciate you were probably making more of a passing comment.

The one area which i would argue England have an advantage over Wales is in strength in depth, this tour proved that when England are down to their 2nd, 3rd or even 4th they can perform well against the no.1 ranked side in the world playing away. This will be crucial going into the world cup in 2015 with so many internationals being played.

Furthermore i think Gatland’s tactics call it ‘Warrenball’ or Wales Plan A,B,C and D or whatever you want are only really effective when your first 15 is fit and firing. It doesn’t look quite as effective when Roberts, Lydiate, Adam Jones or Phillips are in and out of form regularly. All teams have players out of form at some point in time but it particularly hurts Wales with their relative lack of depth. Combine that with the fact that your best player and Captain is injured much of the time.

Wales certainly have an edge in certain depts, the centres, wings, caps, and the fact that this Welsh side have been together for a number of years more than England. but the gap is closing on those aspects despite England’s often disastrous centre experiments most recently.

It would be foolish to write of this Wales side for the world cup, and right now if both sides faced one another it would be extremely close, and could go either way. However I think momentum is with England. Time will prove me wrong!

Cannot believe that some people are blaming the Ref for Wales not being good enough to close the game out. We’ll just ignore the rules of the game in future so Wales can get a win over the SH. Bottom line, Wales played the best they could play, Boks had their worst game in 2 years, and Boks were still good enough to get the win. I respect Wales as a rugby mad nation, and felt really bad for their fans after the game. It’s really difficult to stay sympathetic when so many of those fans commenting on these discussion groups can’t take a loss with grace. Wonder what their take on the penalty try would be had Habana shoulder charged Cuthbert into touch to deny Wales a match winning try?

All the Wales sour pus*ies take a hike. Boks take a bow guys. If you can play this bad and still beat a spirited team like Wales, you’ve achieved something special.
@G & Robbie. Please don’t embarrass yourselves any further by proving to us your lack of rugby knowledge by accusing the ref of being biased and favouring their own, and the Boks apparently collapsing mauls. When it comes to physical power in the scrums, no country not even the AB’s with McCaw in charge can match us, that’s why he keeps playing on the off side line to compensate for this lack lol!!!!
We know it’s a hard pill to swallow, but that’s the way it is and with that I rest my case and I’m really looking forward to November’s clash vs England at Twickenham.

@VaughJackson. Well said my man. To answer you if the illegal tackle was the other way round…………Their would’ve been chaos in the NH, the EU would’ve revered the issue to the UN, and they would’ve end up escalating it to the US (who quite frankly know sh*t about rugby), they would’ve sent 3 aircraft carriers and 25 F18’s to SA to threaten us not to do so again lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!