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Its not minor games that wont work for others, its half of the games with some sort of a problem and many are unplayable. If you not a gamer then an integrated open source Intel-HD is a good thing. Amd is not in the picture. Doesn't play many first rate games, doesn't accelerate anything, doesn't work for you with open drivers.

What games are we talking about? Please don't use windows games as an example of what doesn't work.

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Read bug reports, bugzillas, changelogs, mailinglists you will see as many if not more problems with Nvidia under Linux as Amd/ATI and Intel.

There are lots of people that are happy with the AMD driver, just like there are with the Nivida driver.

I produce my own ethanol for my car by 20+m2 cane. I have my own photovoltaics from 150box/kw scratched cells, some mirrors and plexiplus. I have a Chinese heat-pump that cost me 1500box (1/2-3 the price) with the way I order it, bypassing taxes. I am in the metropolitan network of my region with my own antenna. I build my house with 30000box per 100m2 with alternative materials and 5 times better thermal efficiency. I use almost only Libre Software. I have not a Cellphone or GPS and I don't use Facebook, Google, proprietary-Mail and other shit. I personally think the majority of Americans as fanboys, regardless what they do. I am just an average Linux gamer and I simply know what's happening in this field, and my conclusion is that only Nvidia cards work with Wine gaming, that's all. If i was not a gamer, probably I would have an Open-Source Intel card, or an alternative cheaper ARM platform. Every other solution is for kids.

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I do not feel very fucked by nvidia when the desktop I do development on, as well as run a bunch of servers, as well as play a lot of native games and windows games through wine, not to mention always trying to tweak non-working windows games to work under wine, has an uptime of six months straight when running an nvidia card & blob (interrupted finally by a power outtage).

To me open source and linux are about choices. nvidia chooses not to open their drivers. I'm ok with that, since they are of a high quality. nvidia does not actively conspire against open source (that I'm aware of).

can you explain me how opensource mixed with much closedsource stuff is about choices?

Is it less choice destroying to sell you software xy that is only compatible to itself... lets say word, lets say you buy for your comapany or something else windows and word lisenses. so yoes YOU had the choice to not buy it... but you and others through your choice mixed up with the companies strategy makes it nearly impossible to have a choice for others, that than can buy stuff or use it.

So if they sell you and the wine defs etc such grafics cards + somewhat good closed source drivers, and this devs therefor develop their software to work nearly only on this hardware software mixture, it becaomes a pain in this ass and a very bad choice experince for others to choose another way, because of your choices and the choices of the company they created a market-domination and used it to make your other choices very painfull.

So is that your freedom of choice then?

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And your disagreement is irrelevant. When you pay for a separate GPU without having games in mind, you are getting fucked by your self for sure. GPUs are not for desktop effects, nor for video acceleration. Only Nvidia works for Linux regardless of your opinion, there is not an alternative. Its not minor games that wont work for others, its half of the games with some sort of a problem and many are unplayable. If you not a gamer then an integrated open source Intel-HD is a good thing. Amd is not in the picture. Doesn't play many first rate games, doesn't accelerate anything, doesn't work for you with open drivers. Some of you with your ignorance, you continue disappoint Linux newbies and they gone.

"NVIDIA does not, in any way, condemn the development of third party drivers; quite the opposite. We recognize the importance of third party drivers, and for this reason we have not asked for work on the specific driver to cease. "

"NVIDIA drivers that are distributed through authorized channels have been tested on the supported platforms that are included in the driver INF file, and are supported by NVIDIA and its OEM partners. Modifying drivers to add products that were not intended to be supported in the driver may cause more problems for customers due to limited testing and known problems on some products.
Please confirm that all unauthorized distribution has ceased within two weeks of the date of this letter by sending an email to [email protected]"

answer from ngo who same as forceware make such modified drivers for notebooks and stuff:

"We are modifying ‘driver .INF file' because you're using your software illegally as a tool to promote your new products. You're removing INF file support for older product generations to promote your new products illegally, and using your drivers as tool for psychological warfare on your customers. "

page 3 is here very interesting... read the full page.

"This is not the first time that NVIDIA is trying to abuse this site. About a year ago, they sent another legal threat and requested to remove a patch that was made by Asrock. A few months ago one of their PR agents contacted their OEM partners and asked them not to provide samples, cooperation and support to NGOHQ.com, in-order to drive it out of business and to abuse this site, illegally."

"We will also make sure to fill a complaint in the US DOJ regarding your abuse and possible antitrust violations. We will also tell them about the following:

* Possible use of illegal blackmail tactics against the press.
* Possible use of illegal The Way It's Meant To Be Played program to gain unfair advantage and abuse the open market.
* Possible use of illegal false advertisement.
* Possible use of illegal viral marketing campaigns.
* Possible use of software support being used as tool to promote sales illegally.
* Possible Antitrust Violations against the state, consumers, press and your competitors.
"

so far so good... ngo here even explained why nvidia want to have full controll over the software, so make people buy newer hardware in removing ids from oder grafics card without any usefullness of that. I mean the hardware did not become incompatible to the newer driver, but they implemented whats it called in english, planed obsoleszenz, with removing ids from the inf file. They want to make you buy a new card without any real need to it... is that freedom of choice?

so they help the guys they just wanted to sue to create a bigger dependency. they want that all software gets released with physix support. if amd would have also supported physix maybe all games would used it or much of them, so the companys would have to buy support from nvidia to help them...

but it goes even further than that... that alone would not stopped amd to start supporting it, I guess... what did stop them, was shurly because they understood the plan of nvidia. First they could change the lisense costs for other hardware and software on later versions. Second they could if that would be a standard defined by them make physix2 so that it works really well on nvidia hardware and really bad on amd hardware. because they just can optimise the standard to the nvidia hardware specs. so they would win all game tests in the future because of that.

That is what nvidia tries, they dont use unfree drivers because they fear of that amd can see there how the hardware is designed or something like that... they dont release it because they want to create dependencies and to control people and try to limit the choices of the users of this drivers.

So yes its convinient to use such stuff if you think in the short time span... but the more people give in to that... the more we all loose choices or a switch than will even be harder.

1. to sell it directly for money and stop you to create legal copies and implement features that tries to control you for that drm...
2. because somebody is stupid and does not even know what he is doing or to lazy to think 2 times if it could be open or not
3. to try to make you or somebody else dependend to you... and force you or 3rd parties to give you in some way (more) money

we can eliminate reason 1 or 2 for nvidia so it have to be 3.

So think twice if closed source in this case is about freedom of choice...

And the reason to not go against nouvou is 1. they know that the drivers take very long to be somewhat usable for more than a few hundret people....

and second more important... they saw maybe that they could not win, because they 100% rewrite a new driver aka reverse engineer. If they could they would shut it down. I am totaly shure of that.

sorry for the long text

Last edited by blackiwid; 09-18-2012, 10:06 PM.
Reason: try to make it more readable

Comment

Only Nvidia works for Linux regardless of your opinion, there is not an alternative. Its not minor games that wont work for others, its half of the games with some sort of a problem and many are unplayable. If you not a gamer then an integrated open source Intel-HD is a good thing. Amd is not in the picture. Doesn't play many first rate games, doesn't accelerate anything, doesn't work for you with open drivers. Some of you with your ignorance, you continue disappoint Linux newbies and they gone.

The open source radeon driver has for some time rendered every game correctly I threw at it. To be fair, I didn't try really many. But every single one from the humble indie bundles + amnesia + trine 2 worked fine. I saw a video where it runs crysis 2 win wine and I have been playing trackmania nations, warcraft 3, left 4 dead 1 and 2, portal 1 and 2, path of exile and skyrim in wine a bit with it. Only the performance is not quite there. Other than that it's all very well playable.

At the moment I am playing black mesa with fglrx. Skyrim with fglrx is strangely not much faster than with the open source driver. But path of exile runs better.

I want to ask you: How is that possible?
Can you please name some of the 50% of the games that are not supposed to work but work with nvidia? Please? Because I have trouble finding them.

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The open source radeon driver has for some time rendered every game correctly I threw at it. To be fair, I didn't try really many. But every single one from the humble indie bundles + amnesia + trine 2 worked fine. I saw a video where it runs crysis 2 win wine and I have been playing trackmania nations, warcraft 3, left 4 dead 1 and 2, portal 1 and 2, path of exile and skyrim in wine a bit with it. Only the performance is not quite there. Other than that it's all very well playable.

At the moment I am playing black mesa with fglrx. Skyrim with fglrx is strangely not much faster than with the open source driver. But path of exile runs better.

I want to ask you: How is that possible?
Can you please name some of the 50% of the games that are not supposed to work but work with nvidia? Please? Because I have trouble finding them.

What I tested: 1)Tera_Online = Unplayable with 4670 and 6970, with multiple D3d errors and doesn't start regardless of the driver. 2)CSS = Unplayable because hangs when you go in a closed area with graphics stack overflow. 3)Portal2 = Unplayable only with 4670 even with OpenGL renderer, many places with 5fps. 4)PCSX2 = Unplayable with [email protected] because the cards doesn't offload the CPU enough. Actually around 7 of 13-15 games that i have play the last 2 years are unplayable and those are first rate titles.