Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco[W:54]

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Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco[W:54]

Originally Posted by Beaudreaux

Do any of you leftist ideologues have any evidence that Christie was involved... AT ALL????

At this point, I think whether or not he was involved is almost moot. There is greater damage done to his image as a bi-partisan leader who is "above politics" as his staff was most certainly involved in very petty politics. There are two very damning aspects to this that stand today and stand whether he had direct knowledge or not. First, his reputation as a bit of bully is affirmed, if not by him, but his management culture that could allow such to happen. Second, his management ability is now at issue as clearly he has operated since Sept with a degree of indifference (and that is being generous) which seemingly puts him either in the category of "he knew" or "he did not want to know" Certainly, we have not witnessed "this is unacceptable and I am getting to the bottom of it" until the smoking gun email was uncovered last week. In either case, this indifference is pretty damning indictment of his management abilities.

Though I think its a bit premature to speculate as to whether this knocks him out of the race, one of his selling points, the fact that he "reaches across the aisle with the spirit of compromise, has been compromised. His image, as it stands today, has been greatly tarnished.

Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco[W:54]

Originally Posted by Kobie

Do you have any evidence that he wasn't?

Of course I don't. I didn't know you considered yourself a leftist ideologue, but good to know.

Originally Posted by Kobie

Do I personally think he was involved? I dunno.

At this point, only those that were involved (the ones on the emails we've seen, and Christie himself) know. I damn sure don't, and prefer to use the standard of our legal system of innocent until proven guilty.

Originally Posted by Kobie

But while it's far too early in the process to convict him, it's also far too early to exonerate him.

Exonerate him? Hell, I'm having a hard time living up to my own standard stated above of considering him innocent until proven guilty.

Originally Posted by Kobie

At best (for him), he's guilty of not knowing what his immediate subordinates were up to, which calls his management skills into question. It's not like this was some low-level bureaucrat who caused the lane closures; it was a pretty high-ranking aide.

Rank has nothing to do with whether they tell the boss what's going on. And, I agree that having a DCoS running around doing these things casts a bad light on any leader. Also, the excuse of "They didn't tell me" or "I had no idea it was happening" as has been used by too many leaders of both parties (Obama has made a career out of it) and that statement, whether accurate of not when said, is falling very flat with me. Just as in the Obama White House, the Governor of a state sets the tone of his administration. When political retribution occurs, whether it be by the IRS on the Federal level or a Port Authority on a state level, the tone allowing for such actions falls squarely on the top guy. But... allowing this type of atmosphere is a far cry from being complicit in such an action, whether it be Obama or Christie.

Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco[W:54]

Originally Posted by upsideguy

At this point, I think whether or not he was involved is almost moot. There is greater damage done to his image as a bi-partisan leader who is "above politics" as his staff was most certainly involved in very petty politics. There are two very damning aspects to this that stand today and stand whether he had direct knowledge or not. First, his reputation as a bit of bully is affirmed, if not by him, but his management culture that could allow such to happen. Second, his management ability is now at issue as clearly he has operated since Sept with a degree of indifference (and that is being generous) which seemingly puts him either in the category of "he knew" or "he did not want to know" Certainly, we have not witnessed "this is unacceptable and I am getting to the bottom of it" until the smoking gun email was uncovered last week. In either case, this indifference is pretty damning indictment of his management abilities.

Though I think its a bit premature to speculate as to whether this knocks him out of the race, one of his selling points, the fact that he "reaches across the aisle with the spirit of compromise, has been compromised. His image, as it stands today, has been greatly tarnished.

I agree, other than I'm not sure if his image has been "greatly tarnished." Obama has had the same thing happen to him a number of times with him using the same excuse and he was still re-elected.

There's no getting around his reputation as a tough guy simply by his demeanor; a NJ guy of guys. As far as a "bully"... well, I see him as a hard nosed yankee, like most of them I've ever dealt with, and I don't find that persona pleasing. But he has been able to reach across the isle a number of times and has, or had, supporters from both sides of that isle. Politics is a contact sport. Obama has shown us that as well as Christie.

Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco[W:54]

Originally Posted by Beaudreaux

I agree, other than I'm not sure if his image has been "greatly tarnished." Obama has had the same thing happen to him a number of times with him using the same excuse and he was still re-elected.

There's no getting around his reputation as a tough guy simply by his demeanor; a NJ guy of guys. As far as a "bully"... well, I see him as a hard nosed yankee, like most of them I've ever dealt with, and I don't find that persona pleasing. But he has been able to reach across the isle a number of times and has, or had, supporters from both sides of that isle. Politics is a contact sport. Obama has shown us that as well as Christie.

I have no idea how this will all flush out. Only time will tell.

Christie’s image and he himself has taken a real big hit at least over the short term. In December Christie was beating Clinton 48-45 and in the latest poll Clinton leads Christie 50-37. In December Christies Favorable to unfavorable margin was 43-31 and in this latest poll it is 29-32.

Now you were talking about Christie being a bully, this poll found 26% considered Christie a bully while 49% said he was a strong leader. I think with almost a two to one margin considering Christie a strong leader even with bridgegate going on, if the investigations find Christie was telling the truth about not knowing about it, he can recover nicely. There is still 2 years to go before the first Republican Primary and if he survives this he will probably be stronger than ever.

This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.