spoiler* Are the stat changes for the Avatars totally random? I couldn't figure out any kind of pattern. I just kept hitting whichever one gave me the best ratio of damage dealt/damage taken, and fireballing when they all had high attack. Fell way, way short, though. I don't think the Namtar's Ward I brought is going to get it done here.

A suggestion: I've only tried the fight once so take this for what it's worth, but it seems you should be spending your mana on halpmeh and not at all on fireballs. I think you should try to stretch out that health as much as possible. With a halpmeh heal you can dish out a lot more damage from that health gained by attacking suitable targets instead of doing fireball damage. I also think it's best to start the fight with all 5 Avatars unlocked so you have more choices. With 5 choices there is usually always a really good target. Part of what's really cool about this fight is that as you start taking them out, your choices become fewer and it becomes progressively more difficult. I was about to kill the third one when my game crashed, leaving me just two options to choose from. With only two choices from there I feel like it was going to get quite a bit tougher.

Also, consider using cleansing now and then for a magical attack. A target can do very little damage to you but have high super high physical res, making it a meh choice, but for a cleansing it can be a real good deal.

spoiler* Yeah, I was only fireballing when they all had 70+ attack. Happened often enough that I ran out, though. Now that I know what I'm up against, I can make a properly informed run. 3-2 is still a problem - I have got to find a better way to do it/

I'm getting better at it. I have a better idea of what I need and what I should be doing. Avatar described it best, it just requires airtight leveling and skill. It's quickly becoming one of my favorite dungeons in the game. It's simple yet very tough.

Do I take a 2-level higher kill or waste a good amount of blackspace searching for/executing a 3 level higher kill? Do I settle for a one level higher kill because there is nothing else in sight and I'm running low on space? When do I start in on the boss? Decisions like these are so common in this game and as you get better they become easier, but in this dungeon the decisions are frequently close and difficult to make. If you fuck up and make mistakes you probably aren't going to win. Of course you will get luckier layouts than others, but what it really boils down to is your strategy and how well you execute it. It's such a well-balanced difficult map.

I've bounced back and forth between prepping Namtar's Ward and the Dragon Shield. Namtar's ward is awesome for part 2 in both the leveling phase and the boss fight, but the Dragon Shield is ideal for part 3. In my successful run in part 3 I had Namtar's Ward. It's just so helpful for part 2 that I wasted minimal resources there. It's also really strong for the leveling phase in part 3 but becomes trash later on.

I feel like for me right now Namtar's ward is the better choice, at least until I get good enough at doing part 2 to where I can succeed consistently with the Dragon Shield. Maybe it's just the better choice overall? I dunno. It was still very useful for part 3 so for now I'm fine with it. My mind is open to other options as well.

Dragon soul is my most wanted item for sure. Small slot and it's just always awesome, but it really shines in part 2. Fireheart is real good as well and helps a lot in part 3.

Ideal glyphs for me for part 2 is imawal/endiswall. imawal without endiswall though and you can run into shitty situations like in the screen shot above

Heh, I don't think anyone has figured out the magic strat I used to wipe up the avatar's. If you've already won and you are curious:Platemail. The item is ridiculously good. A lot of the time (at least when you have all 5 avatars left) one of the choices won't even hurt you, and since you prep the dragon shield those that do more than twenty don't even do too much themselves. In tandem with the dragon soul it is just too powerful.

The Avatar wrote:Heh, I don't think anyone has figured out the magic strat I used to wipe up the avatar's. If you've already won and you are curious:Platemail. The item is ridiculously good. A lot of the time (at least when you have all 5 avatars left) one of the choices won't even hurt you, and since you prep the dragon shield those that do more than twenty don't even do too much themselves. In tandem with the dragon soul it is just too powerful.

spoiler: Wow very nice... so you pretty much easy-mode the Avatar fight hahaha. I mean, platemail wasn't even on my radar. I wrote down a list of items which I wanted (prep considerations and most wanted shop items) and platemail was not on that list. I think the reason is because my focus was on part 2 mostly and platemail actually makes that more difficult. Anyway, cool plan. I can see that really working out. I was actually thinking of how funny it would be for this build if you had the lifesteal blade to go along with it. You are now actually healing off the Avatars. GG gets mad but who cares Would be far from optimal but would be very amusing.

Here's how I did it. After a sloppy part2, I was forced to convert the fireball for a level up to finish off the magic immune boss. I was actually just going to restart after that cuz... no fireball T_T, but then I said fuck this, go beast mode. I had prepped Namtar's Ward and I have cydstepp. Get the blade from Taurog and his armour and buy the Dwarven Gauntlets and Dragon soul. My targets are mostly Doom Armours, Imps (after a good amount of revealed tiles) and Djinns. I was very amused when I realized I was regen fighting Doom Armours with cydstepp/ward. Crack open the Avatars and start the fight at 7-8. Hadn't found GG til the end unfortunately. Shops were straight up awful. On and off I wasn't sure if I was going to make it (I was much more confident on my crashed run). Get down to the final two... they are doing 135 and 150 and both are magical attack. I have no health or mana left, one health potion and 100 piety for 2 protections. gg right? Then I count my popcorn which leaves me 15exp away from another level up. Then I count 16 beads, which with enlightenment give me a level up! Holy shit that was the most glorious ding of all time. Not only do I refill my hp and mana but I'm doing serious damage with higher resists.

Take the last 2 out easily from there and head down to fight the boss. I had saved whupaz. I think I'm cruisin until I realize his resists are going up. I panic and start hitting him faster LOL. Just hit/halmeh fast. I forgot that I could've been regen fighting with halmeh so it wasn't really close, but I didn't realize that at the time so it was intense

Nice! That is pretty epic. Although *SPOILERS* You actually can use the Lifesteal Blade too as long as it shows up on the 3rd mission. Just purchase it when you have zero piety, convert it when you will have a lot of excess piety, and abuse it in the meantime. It just didn't happen to show on my run.

spoilers* I brought the Dragon Shield, picked up Dwarven Gauntlets, Dragon Soul, and Taurog's sword and armor, and went into 3-3 with 2 health potions, 1 schadenfruede, and both reflex and quicksilver left over. Found GG right off, and pretty much wrecked the place. The Avatars behaved well, and I was able to get the last four all down to almost dead at the same time. It was one-sided enough that I probably could have won even without the free piety refills on each kill. Really, if you bring a Dragon Shield, 3-2 is the hard part, and 3-3 should go down easily enough if you can get there. If you bring the Ward, then getting to 3-3 isn't bad, but beating it will be very rough.

*SPOILERS*Has the quest actually been beaten by preparing Namtar's ward? If so, I'm impressed, I assumed Dragon Shield was a must for part 3. I've always wanted Platemail in part 3, but I really can't imagine doing dungeon 2 with permaslow (otherwise I'd consider bringing the RBS... though inventory would also be a concern). I don't think platemail ever spawned at an appropriate moment... or if it did, I didn't have the gold for it 'cause I needed some conversion junk in part 2. The Fire Heart ended up being really useful for both part 2 and 3, though. It charges healing as you heal yourself, and it's also good for dealing with all of those deathgaze enemies in part 2. I also hadn't considered the Lifesteal blade... I guess I don't push the Paladin hard enough.