Islam means Peace

The version of Islam today, as preached by likes of Zakir Naik, Osama Bin Laden, Talibanis, Saudi Mullahs etc are the greatest threat for humanity today. Due to this the Islam of liberals like Hassan Nisar and Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy remains hidden from limelight.

A large number of articles on the site expose the fraudulent claims of witchdoctors of neo-Wahabi Islam like Zakir Naik and showcase why it is utter foolishness to regard only Quran as final word of Allah and all the rest of the books on earth as redundant for seeking Him. We have explored fallacies and contradictions in existing translations of Quran, status of women in fanatic Islam, extremism and its cause in Islam and host of other topics. The impact has been tremendous and we have now a huge number of rational Muslims seeking ways to wiggle out of clutches of fanatic neo-Wahabi Islam. Many have agreed to believe in Rebirth and Theory of Karma. Others admit that all the Sahih Hadiths (True Sayings of Muhammad) are not true, unlike claims of the clerics that those who refuse to believe in Sahih Hadiths would go to Hell.

Let us assume for a moment that scholars and major schools of Islam like Zakir Naik, Darul Uloom, Barelvi, Qadiyani etc represent true Islam in their own rights. We would also assume that they know more about Islam than Agniveer or anyone else questioning Islam. So if these prominent ‘experts’ and representatives of Islam can issue the following verdicts and their stands on these topics very clearly in most unambiguous terms, there would be no reason for anyone to consider Islam to be a threat.

The verdicts we demand from these ‘experts’ are most reasonable and rational and have nothing offensive about it. It is the absence of clarity on following issues that causes all rational minds to be scared of Islamic terrorism and doubt even innocent fellow Muslims.

So Islam will not be perceived as a threat if, the clerics and experts state that:

1. Thus, if there is a benevolent non-Muslim who refuses to believe in Quran, despite being given an invitation to embrace Islam, because he or she did not find Quran convincing, or because he or she does know Arabic, or a host of other reasons, it does not mean he or she is disqualified from entering into Heaven and must burn in Hell forever.

For example, the great saints, freedom fighters, soldiers and social workers who lived a pious life, knew about Quran, but remained non-Muslim because Quran did not appeal to them, would not go to Hell. (Refer following video by Islamic terrorist Zakir Naik where he gives a most stupid logic that can impress only psychopaths):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbSUkq5ePew

This is very critical, because there can be no trust on those who eventually dream of us (non-Muslims) burning in Hell forever. There can be no greater recipe for hatred than this that we are condemned to Hell forever! The Islamic clerics must address this issue very clearly to cleanse Islam of allegations of fanaticism and hatred for non-Muslims.

Just imagine! Major Unikrishnan laid his life fighting Pakistani terrorists and safeguarding dignity of nation. But he would go to Hell because he did not have Imaan on Quran, Judgment Night, Angels, Muhammad and other fairy tales. But Ajmal Kasab et al who spread so much of nuisance may have virgins in Heaven merely because he surrendered everything to will of Allah and did Jihad – the greatest worship of Allah!

What more, even if a Hindu dies saving dignity of his Muslim sister, still he will go to Hell! What can be bigger insult of Allah and revered Prophet?

2. It is not necessary that a criminal would go to Heaven simply because he surrenders to Quran and Islam and says a ‘sorry’!. So all those terrorists who kill, rape or loot in name of Islam would go to Hell and should be openly condemned by Muslims regardless of their religion. (Refer Islamic Jehad and following video: )

3. A woman is not bereft of intelligence or half-intelligent compared to men as claimed in several verses of Quran/ Hadiths. Allah allows women the same social, legal and political opportunities in life that He endows to men. (Refer entire series on Women in Islam )

4. The concept of Jazia tax on non-Muslims is disgusting. Social, political and criminal regulations should be same for everyone regardless of religion.

5. The English translations of Quran by likes of Yusuf Ali, Pickthall, Dawood; Tafseers of Sahih International, Jalalyn; Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim as published by Islamic publishers and websites suffer from discrepancies and DO NOT correctly represent Islam.

Because these are the only translations which are used for questioning Islam. The Muslim debaters would refuse to admit that these translations are wrong (because Islam forbids them to condemn other Muslims) but yet try to allege that anti-Islamic material is used to demean Islam!

If there is anything objectionable in sources cited by those questioning Islam, the ‘experts’ should clearly state that they reject the authenticity of the sources even if it is an Islamic publication.

In general, any verse that insults the legendary Prophet Muhammas (PBUH) even slightly should be outrightly rejected, be it in Quran translations or Hadiths or any other text.

7. A Muslim who could not find Islam addressing his questions and converts to another religion does not require to be killed for apostasy as per Islamic laws, even if he propagates his new religion. Those who KILL apostates or justify their killing in Islamic state are greatest criminals. (Refer Zakir Naik – the mentor of terrorists)

8. All those Muslim rulers like Babur who admit in their own biography of indulging into pedophilia, homosexuality, cutting thousands of head, narcotics and keeping harem of women are not actually Muslims but disgrace in name of Islam. (Refer Babri and Babur )

9. All those clerics, organizations and countries that call for constant war against non-Muslims are against Islam and criminals. For example refer to following fatwa issued from Saudi Arabia:

10. Non-Muslims should have the same rights to propagate their beliefs in Islamic countries, (so far the beliefs are not criminal, immoral and violent) as Muslims have the right to propagate Islam in non-Islamic countries. But if Muslims believe that it is against Islam to allow preaching of any other religion in Islamic countries, then they should also stop propagating Islam in other countries.

We had already given another Test of secularism earlier but it seems bit too far-fetched today for the fanatic forces. However the current set of clarifications would require only lip service. We know there is a concept of Taqiah in Islam that is implied to justify every crooked act with enemies. But we are even willing to give benefit of doubt to these eminent representatives of Islam and assume that they will not indulge in such practices which were not allowed as per original message of Muhammad.

Whenever someone makes a cartoon of Muhammad or appeals for burning Quran, it hurts us a lot. We strongly oppose such moves to hurt sentiments of millions of our Muslim brothers and sisters. Disagreement should never imply hatred.

But the only way to solve this issue would be by offering the above-said clarifications publicly and creating an environment of mutual trust and dignity. Otherwise innocent Muslims would continue to live in humility and rest of the non-Muslims would continue to showcase their hatred against fanaticism by denigrating legends like Muhammad and Quran. And this hatred will continue to increase giving rise to more and more terrorists like Osama Bin Laden and Ajmal Kasab. And taking benefit of the market opportunity and petro-dollars in hands of fanatic forces, dogmatic intolerant fraud preachers like Zakir Naik will open more of shops to offer ‘peace’ by justifying killing of apostates and Hell for rest of us.

We request visitors on the site to help circulate this message and use your influence to extract public statements from influential representatives of Islam on these most vital issues. In absence of same, our tirade against fanatic Islam would continue.

Because let it be known that Prophet Muhammad was one of the greatest legends ever born in history. Any insult to him or his legacy is an insult to entire humanity. Agniveer cannot tolerate it.

||Sarve Bhavantu Sukhinah||

May tolerance prevail!

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Disclaimer: We believe in "Vasudhaiv Kutumbakam" (entire humanity is my own family). "Love all, hate none" is one of our slogans. Striving for world peace is one of our objectives. For us, entire humanity is one single family without any artificial discrimination on basis of caste, gender, region and religion. By Quran and Hadiths, we do not refer to their original meanings. We only refer to interpretations made by fanatics and terrorists to justify their kill and rape. We highly respect the original Quran, Hadiths and their creators. We also respect Muslim heroes like APJ Abdul Kalam who are our role models. Our fight is against those who misinterpret them and malign Islam by associating it with terrorism. For example, Mughals, ISIS, Al Qaeda, and every other person who justifies sex-slavery, rape of daughter-in-law and other heinous acts. Please read Full Disclaimer.

Agniveer symbolizes the efforts of a soul marching towards the ultimate goal through destruction of ego and falsehood. With focus only on right knowledge, right actions and right devotion. In other words, Agniveer stands for compassion, character, tolerance and rational humanism. Agniveer believes in One World, One Humanity, One Family.

SEND DOCTOR ZAKIR NAIK TO BAREILLY WHICH IS FAMOUS FOR ITS PAGALKHANA AND KUTUBKHANA, THAT APPEARS TO BE A PLACE FOR THIS LUINNATIC WHO IS TWISTING ALL THE AYATS OF A BOOK OF FEA TO DISTURB PEACE OF BARELVIS WHO ARE AGAINST THE DEOBANDIS. HIS FREE MOVEMENT IS WORST THAN A RABID DOG.

EVERYONE HAS A RIGHT TO SPEAK. MOHAMMAD SPOKE WHATEVER HE THOUGHT. JESUS WAS COMPASSIONATE SO HE TALKED OF SIN TO BE ELIMINATED FROM THE SOCIETY. MODERN SCIENCE IS DOING ITS BEST TO PROVIDE COMFORT, CONVENIENCE, EASE ,HEALTH, SHELTER, HAPPINESS, AND ABOVE ALL PUTTING THE KNOWLEDGE STORED IN THE OLDEST OF THE OLDEST BOOKS AND AS A CONTINITY OF RESEARCH FOR THE BENEFIT OF HUMANITY WITHOUT THE HELP OF RELIGIONS , BELIEFS, FAITHS WHICH GIVE A PROMISE ONLY THAT YOU GET AFTER DEATH. BUT SCIENCE PROVIDES WHAT YOU NEED WHILE LIVING. PERSONS WHO ARE CRAZY LUNATICS OR GOOD FOR NOTHING FOR THE SOCIETY ARE JUST TO SATISFY THEIR EGO START FINDING OUT SOME SIGNS IN BOOKS AND START HIGHLIGTING THEM CREATING CHAOS, ILLUSION, WHICH ARE OF NO USE TO A COMMON MAN NEITHER TODAY NOR IN FUTURE. THE PROGRESS MADE BY MAN HAS COME BY THE THINKING WITH OPEN MIND AND NOT CONFINING TO A MERE BOOK. RELIGION HAD ALL THE TIME BEEN A CAUSE OF CONFLICT IN THE WEST AND HAD PRODUCED TYRRANTS, TERRORISTS AND LUNATICS-GOOD FOR NOTHING FELLOWS. THE ANCIENT SCHOLARS WHO WERE GREAT THINKERS FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE HUMANITY WERE KNOWN AS SAGES, SAINTS, SEERS THEIR NUMBER IS LARGE LIKE, CHARAK, SUSHRUT, AND ARYABHATT . PANDIT VATS CALIFORNIA.

I am studying Islam and Vedas since a decade and has came to the conclusion that indeed Quran contains the Vedic teachings and presents it in a more standard and subtle form. Afterall Muhammad is a tonne year senior than Dayanand!

Here people are speaking bad of the Islamic concept of God and Prophet and vis-s-vis referring Allah as the God in Vedas (see Agniveer’s facebook page also) that is but only their kid’s approach of mental gratification. I am sure your these dichotomous approach will win nothing but hatred against you only. Yet I am sure you people are not having a missionary zeal but you are there only to count the convert’s figure so to report your NRI fund-givers/donors (so that you may exploit the name of your poor barren million years old dharma for your evil ends). I found you as fearful of Zakir Naik for whom I must tell you that he is stale now, better to check for Zaid Hamid. He is a one over your millions Pandits if you are bothering of the growing Muslim intelligentsia all over.

And yes, last but not the least, this Rajput Hindu has proudly accepted your ‘brutal Islam’ (as you illiterates used to refer). Afterall, it is the best religion I found who teaches to be ever ready to die for the truth and not to merely shouting a cowardice at the bank like you Hippocrates. May the zeal of ALLAH be with you. ALLAH hu Akabr. Wassalam, Rahil (Rahul) Bhadoria

Think before you comment Islam is good religion. Why I am saying this is that 89% terrorists are Muslims. The main activists behind 76% bomb blasts in the world are followers of Quran. Supporting Islam means supporting terrorism.

@truth seeker don’t just say directly anything….give verses with their meaning of every word along with the purpot by bonafide guru . And also the verse no. from which u are quoting. Because bhagwat puran is a very large purna having 12 cantos. This is not the way to speak on any scriptures.

Kindly continue this discussion on the Agniveer Discussion Forum whose link is provided on top of every page. Please do not deviate from theme of the current article. In any case, instead of asking truthseeker, perhaps you can yourself read the complete puran in detail and draw your own conclusions. You can get Purans from any large bookseller or publisher like Chaukhambha or Dehati Pustak or Motilal Banarasidas. Ask for unabridged version.

Can somebody give authoritative proof that it was indeed written by Veda Vyas? Dear Vishal, we would like you to explore this yourself. As we have mentioned, our goal is not to provide answers but to help you ask the right questions. We share our viewpoint but want everyone to freely explore and discover their own paths, even if they differ with us. However all was desist from is to accept something on face value without due analysis.

@vishal I give you proof, Bhagawat Puran says Vishnu in disguise of King Jalandhar had gone to Jalandhar’s wife Varnda and tried to do sex with her. Further it provide Moksh just by listening the Bhagawat puran in 7days. Further it says Jalandhar was powerful enough that lord Shiva (Almighty) getting defeat from him consistently in war. Story is gone on. there are enough proofs, puran are just imaginary scriptures written by Brahmans to fool the people & earn their livelihood. . All Puran are against Veda philosophy.

@Agniveer Im always waiting for ur comments as u are the site owner and also infulence many people. I want to say that u only recommend to read only vedas then about puranas and upnishads . U have recommended Bhagwat Gita(songs of god) what about Bhagwata purana(about god). U can’t neglect them. The puranas , upnishadas and the vedas all are return by same aurthor Vyasdev. He wrote bhagwat puran at last as the conclusion of all the vedas, upnishadas, and puranas so it is a conclusion of what vedas say. So i think u should ALSO recommend bhagwat puran reading. Waiting for Agniveer’s comment.

It is impossible for us to follow all discussions and comment due to sheer magnitude of work we have at hand. However we encourage free discussions among visitors. We recommend texts based not on names or third-party recommendations or name of author but only after due analysis and thorough review.

Our view is that Vedas are the highest level of spiritual cum mundane dose one can obtain. Bhagvat Geeta is very inspiring though not everything written in Geeta and as translated by major authors can be accepted at face value. We are yet to find a version of Bhagvat Puran that can be recommended as authoritative texts. Researchers can approach this book for historical purpose. But for spiritual purpose, I am afraid that Bhagvat Puran does not come as an authoritative text. Also despite popular claims, we have found non evidence that Veda Vyas had anything to do with Bhagvat Puran or any Puran for that matter. Upanishads have been authored by various Rishis many of them unknown today. The ten major Upanishads are wonderful texts for subtle minds. But the purans sharply contradict Vedas and contain casteism, gender discrimination, superstitions and even insult to great legends like Sri Krishna, Rama, Brahma and Sri Rama. You are advised to obtain original unabridged versions of these texts and check for yourself. Our deepest research has yielded that Vedas are ultimate texts. Next come 6 Darshans. Then Upanishads. Then Geeta. Apart from Vedas, rest have to analyzed cautiously and not to be taken blindly in any case. However Purans do not qualify our standards of recommendations.

Till we are personally satisfied with quality of any text, our code of conduct does not allow us to recommend to anyone else. This is the foremost Vedic principle for any Arya – do to others what you would keenly do to yourself.

Can any please tell me which is the book from your point of view is not corrupted excluding vedas?

Although you have addressed your questions to Agniveer, maybe I can provide some inputs.

First off the bat I must admit that I suspect you are practising Taqqiya. Forgive me if that is not the case. We have so many anonymous people posting here and in the recent days I have suspected some folks of engaging in just this. If not, do forgive me for casting this aspersion on you.

Secondly, I find the whole notion of “Bible/Vedas/Guru Granth Texts being corrupted, the Quran is not corrupted so Quran wins” childish if I may say so. If non-corruption is the sole means of deciding whether a religion is true or not, I am fairly sure that someone can come up with a new “holy book” today and with the technology available, it could be preserved without any change for the next 100000000 years. Oh wait…Ron Hubbard already did that. So, why dont we all convert to this newest religion propagated by the Church of Scientology? I hope you get my point. Also, I doubt if the Quran is uncorrupted. I am not an expert here but I believe the Sanaa manuscripts reveal some previously unknown Quranic records. I have not educated myself in this case because I feel it is irrelevant. (This corruption vs uncorruption issue is a foolish/weak argument used by Muslims and hence my doubt about your Taqqiya.)

What should matter is HOW we interpret the texts that are extant today.

Coming to your specific questions, it depends on WHICH type of Hindu you speak to. Different branches of Hinduism believe in their own sacred documents be it Puranas or Itihasas, etc. I dont know if the BG has been corrupted or not. It wouldnt matter, as I said earlier, because what matters is the CONTENT and INTERPRETATION of extant verses.

The purpose of a philosophical school of thought is whether it ANSWERS all questions. Even if 6 Billion people converted tomorrow to Hinduism, it would…

The purpose of a philosophical school of thought is whether it ANSWERS all questions. Even if 6 Billion people converted tomorrow to Hinduism, it would hardly give me any personal internal peace of mind if Hinduism didnt answer various questions. At present, Hinduism, [Vedanta + BG] answer ALL my questions – the purpose of creation, the means of Moksha, the material cause, the efficient cause of the universe, the problem of evil, etc. etc. Abrahamic religions draw a big 0 on all these scores. They simply say it is a test and Allah created something out of nothing. If Muslims are satisfied with it, ok, what am I to do? I find the answers provided by Islam/Xity insufficient. No amount of Dawah is probably going to convince me otherwise.

If you are TRULY a Hindu, then I would simply suggest that there are different interpretations of various texts. If they answer your questions, you should be a happy, peaceful and content person. 🙂

From past few years i have been trying to gain knowledge about the Hinduism and read several the books like geeta, Shreemad Bhagwat and shastra namavali of Vishnua, Shankar etc……….

Let me introduce my self basically i m a mechnical engineer and working in mumbai with one of the well know firm.

In actual i m interested in reading the vedas and to gain the truth knowledge. By reading various discussion on this website the conclusion is the vedas is the only book which are not corrupted and now even i completely agree on this point.

You can say my specific question is

IS GEETA is corrupted or not? means what ever is written in GETA is truth?????????? So the conclusion from my view apart from vedas GETA is the book which is says 100% truth as well as it is available in short guide book to all the human being.

As well as if possible can u please guide me an institute near by in mumbai form where i can learn sanskrit and vedas

Hi Bharat…I appreciate your taking time. Do NOT worry whether a book is corrupt or not. The issue is WHETHER THE ANSWERS IT PROVIDES SATISFY YOUR SOUL. Remember, whether Agniveer or I say the Gita is corrupted or not corrupted will NOT satisfy your soul. Only YOU can satisfy it yourself. Keep asking questions and see whether a text answers such questions. 🙂

I have found BG a beautiful manuscript. You may or you may not. I cannot say. But it DOES answer my various questions. After the BG, I would suggest you study and contemplate on the Brahmasutras. Take care to read the BG and Brahmasutras by the same Acharya.

I dont know of any institute where one can learn Sanskrit/Vedas. Sorry. Someone else may be able to help you.

To add to what Kalbhairav said, Gita is indeed an amazing text. It was a favorite of Swami Dayanand. The Gita-Brahmasutra-Ishopanishad make a powerful spiritual package. But keep following cautions: 1. Unlike blind believers, analyze everything objectively. You are not forced to accept everything. Instead try to arouse the knowledge within. Feel free to agree, disagree and be neutral on various points. This is NOT blasphemy. 2. Make sure you are putting great efforts in life. Only the laborious can understand spiritualism. Because these texts emphasize so much on Vairagya – detachment, often people misinterpret and run away from life even though they have not even entered it! Lazy minds find convenient escapes in such texts to excuse themselves from their duties. Always remember that the goal of Gita was to inspire Arjune into warfare. 3. To initiate in Vedas, you can download Satyarth Prakash and Introduction to Vedas (Hindi) by Swami Dayanand. That would lay a reasonable foundation.

I personally would recommend honing the analytical and intuitive muscles of mind before jumping into language aspects. Or else there is risk of becoming dogmatic. So first read and start analyzing translated verses. Get a book that translates word by word. Spend some time this way and then future path would be clearer. Try to approach spiritualism as an engineer cum manager. Instead of trying to do all the work yourself, leverage from works of scholars and experts in different fields and develop your own understanding. As you progress, you can gradually gain more and more mastery.

“Kindly do fast for 1 month without food & water. And yeah kindly do not argue it is shifting of time. Because people who do fast do not sleep in day, so theory fails.”

the purpose of fasting is sacred. its similarly followed in other religions to purify body and intoxicate the system.

check out how many actually do that fasting properly. its not 1 month without food and water as many try to show them doing fasting as very tough blah blah.

morning 4 am before sunrise. eat like pig filling the stomach. then at 2 pm. run back home taking half day from offices .. sleep to get away with other time. then after the break of fast with namaz.. again from 6 pm to morning 10 pm its just again eating, sheesha driving around.. and back again 4 am. its more like a kings feast what many have infront of them from 6 pm to morning 4 am.

what they actually do is missing 1 time food. thats afternoon but compensating everyting at night.

i am referring to what i am observing in arab community out of india. and even pleased to see one of the imam recently requested people dont do this in a leading news paper in gulf

On a separate note, I have immense respect for anyone who is in the teaching profession. To teach and mould and be a force of positive change in this world is a great responsibility and a noble act. Congratulations.

I couldnt completely understand your question. Could you make your message more clear? That way I will know if I am in a position to help you.

4[75] And what reason do you have not to fight in the cause of Allah, to rescue the helpless oppressed old men, women, and children who are crying: “Our Lord! Deliver us from this town whose people are oppressors; send us a protector by Your grace and send us a helper from Your presence?”

These verses again cleary states that Allah is not a god but a imagination of prophet becoz if ALLAH was god how he denied to rescue the helpless oppressed old men, women, and children who are crying: “Our Lord! Deliver us from this town whose people are oppressors; send us a protector by Your grace and send us a helper from Your presence?” a god can’t ever discriminate among old nd new , male or female etc , but he’ll be same for alll…….

To day the restive Muslim youths of Arab world are aggressively clamouring for democracy and protesting against their despotic rulers who with a strategy to remain in power have never allowed them any freedom to think beyond mosque, madrasa and the Haj. Contrary to it, the Indian Muslims or the descendents of native converts instead of enjoying their freedom in a secular and democratic environment are marching in with step with their mental subservience to Arabian Indians.

From the time of loss of their political domination in the sub-continent, the Arab Indians had launched a movement for Arabisation of native converts in the name of Islamic revivalism. Their sole objective appeared to be to use them as their unpaid soldiers to fight for their self seeking interest of sharing political power in the changed political system in the region. The uneducated Indian Muslims who had not lost their pre-Islamic consciousness failed to understand the clever design of their co-religionists, fell in their trap of Arabisation by sharing Arab customs and traditions which have nothing to do with the spiritual aspects of Islam. Under the process of Arabisation which is still continuing, they are irretrievably losing their emotional bondage with pre-Islamic sense of belonging to the cultural consciousness of this land which has been the inner strength of Indian society for hundreds of years

This uninterrupted movement which began since mid eighteenth century was basically to regain the political domination of Arabian Indians. It was practically a ploy to subvert the Indian Muslims’ emotional loyalty towards their indigenous traditions and customs they have lived with for generations, replace them with the cultural traditions and customs of Arabs and thereby push for a homogenous Islamic identity based on the civilisational consciousness of Arabs. Apart from the loyalty to family they also preached for a greater loyalty to pure Islam which they interpreted as imitation of the socio-religious conduct of Arabs.

Despite the absence of any Quranic sanction of Arab superiority over non-Arab Muslims, the Arabian Indians while launching the movement for Islamic revivalism linked Islam with Arab culture and traditions and thereby campaigned for Arabisation of Indian Muslims. They also included the imitation of dress code of early Arabs and many traits of the personal life of Prophet Mohammad as a mandatory requirement for a Muslim. Mawlana Iliyas, the pioneer of Tabligh Jamaat, an offshoot of Deoband Movement was so obsessed with the puritan Arab tradition of Islam that when a much praised Muslim youth who had completed his study of the Quran, but was clean- shaven, was presented before him during his travel, he was distressed to see the absence of Islam on his outward appearance (The Faith Movement of Mawlana Ilyas by Anwarul Haq page, 108-09).

Such imposition of dress code on Indian Muslims was nothing Quranic but a part of the movement for Arabisation of Indian Muslims. Similarly, if one looks to the institutional song and flag of Aligarh Muslim University there is hardly anything which is rooted to Indian tradition and culture. The university Tarana(song) does not contain a single word in praise of India but it glorifies such things as the evening of Egypt and the mornings of Shiraj. The university flag has greater resemblance with the flags of Muslim countries, with moon and palm tree stamped on it, than with that of India (Aligarh Muslim University and Muslim Politics by Dr. S.S.Gupta, 1992, page79).

Contrary to the laws of classical sociology and ethnology which demand even the native converts to remain an integral part of their civilisational roots, the Arabian Indians took the role of guardians of Indian Muslims and pushed them for a cultural consciousness of Arab world by interpreting Islam in Arab matrix of culture and tradition. They not only guided the native converts to consult them for giving name to their children in Arabic and Persian words but also for adopting the manner, etiquette, social behaviour and customs of the people living thousands of kilometres away from them. Although, their forefathers adopted Islam centuries ago their gradual transformation to a new socio-anthropological mould which was amazingly a mental subjugation to Arabian Indians, their innocent and harmonious physical features were blurred with imitation of beard style and dress to such an extent that they created a confusion of being aliens in their own land. The Islamic revival movements were thus not only a source for potential tension and conflict but also one of the causes of the resurgence of fundamentalism.

Before the end of Muslim rule there was hardly any visible difference between the Muslim neighbours and others as they were wearing similar dress, speaking same language’ visiting the shrines of Sufi saints together and so on. Although the only bond of Indian Muslims with Arab was Mecca where Islam was revealed to an Arab in Arabic language, with the movement for Arabisation, there was a massive shift in their self-identification with Arabs. Growing trend of keeping beard, wearing skull caps and Kurta –Pyjama by men and Hijab by women, using Arabic-enriched local language in conversation, preference to seek employment in Middle-East countries, and opposing Indian tradition and customs were the results of Arabisation. One can go further and state without doubt say that the growing resurgence of fundamentalism is the direct influence of Arabisation which in turn is an extension of Wahabism born in the middle of eighteenth century in Arabia.

Even some non-Muslim political leaders with a view to appease the Indian Muslims tried to show their solidarity by wearing their Arab dress on special occations . Shibu Soren former Chief Minister of Jharkhand appeared in the dress of an Arab to attend the party hosted by the Governor Sibte Razvi in 2010 . He looked more like a comic character in a B grade Bollywood movie!

It is an irony that Indian Muslims do not understand that in spite of accepting Arabised identity, they are still treated as Azlafs (low category of Muslims) by Arabs and Arabian Indians Arabs who claim themselves Ashrafs (Noble Muslims). They are living under colonial psyche by sending their children to Arab sponsored low level education in madrasa. Instead of taking lessons from the plight of the people of Arab world, they look towards them as a part of one nation community that is Ummah and feel proud in sending their children to serve them mostly even in low category jobs.

Historically, the ideological foundation for Arabisation of Indian Muslims was laid by an Arabian Indian Shah Waliullah a reputed Ulema in the second half of eighteenth century AD when the Muslim ruling class felt the awful fire of the first challenge to their over five hundred years of rule in the sub-continent following the loss of Bengal in the battle of Plassey in 1757 AD to the East India Company and the rise of Marathas and Jats in the regions contiguous to Delhi, the centre of Muslim Empire. Sensing this humiliation of Muslim power as a danger signal to Islam, he invited Shah Abdali, the ruler of Afghanistan to save the Muslims from the Hindus and also devised a strategy for Arabisation of native converts and their transformation into Islamist soldiers for launching Jihad against the Qafirs (Infidels). His interpretation of Islam was based on the thesis of Arabian Indians’ supremacy not only over the Hindus but also over the Azlaf Muslims (low category of Muslims) by the Muslims of Arab origin.

Exactly after a century when the Islamic power of Arabian Indians in the sub-continent took its last breath in 1857, his disciples and supporters having Arab ancestry put his ideology in operation by launching Islamic revival movements known as Deoband Movement and Aligarh Movement which were meant to gradually inspire the native Muslims to forget their pre-Islamic traditions and customs of generation after generation.

In their analysis of the collapse of Islamic empire the Arabian clerics felt that only Arabisation of the native converts can only transform their loyalty to the Arab land. Accordingly, they institutionalized the movement for recruitment of Islamic warriors for the restoration of Arabian imperialistic power in the sub- continent.

Aligarh did not initially have a common methodology of Islamic revival movement with that of Deoband . While Deoband Movement was for the restoration of Islamic power, the Aligarh Movement was for Islamic modernism without any dilution of Islamic fundamentalism. Modernity requires separation of religion and politics but Islamic modernism of Aligarh movement was a modified version of Islamic fundamentalism. Since the prominent leaders of both the movements had Arab ancestry, they were always alert to ensure that the vested interests of Arabian interests were safe guarded.

The Moplahs in the coastal regions of Kerala who were mostly descendants of Arabian fathers and native mothers took advantage of Khilafat movement and revolted against the Hindu landlords who never objected to the settlement of the alien Arabs in their land for their livelihood. The history of the violent Moplah movement is not known to many and the only detailed account written by the then chief of the Malabar Special Police is yet to be placed in public domain.

The Arabian Indians’ carefully woven strategy was so powerful that it entrapped hundreds of Indian Muslim intellectuals particularly Allama Iqbal ( His grand father Sahaj Ram Sapru, a Kashmiri Hindu was converted to Islam and took the Islamic name Mohammad Rafiq) and Mohammad Ali Jinnah ( His grand father, Poonja Gokuldas Meghji was a Hindu Rajput from Gujarat who was converted to Islam) who were responsible for not only the geographical partition of the sub-continent but also paved the way for the mental partition of India on communal lines. So long as Allama Iqbal remained connected with his indigenous cultural consciousness he proved his commitment to Indian nationalism by composing a poem ‘Sare Jahan se Achha Hindostan Hamara’ but once he was entrapped in the web of Arabisation, he lost his inner strength and became the ideological father of Pakistan. Similarly, Mohammad Ali Jinnah was known as ambassador of Hindu-Muslim unity because of deep rooted Indianness in him but once he was overpowered by the alluring bait of Arabian Indians which was to fulfill his egoistic ambition, he gave a call for ‘Direct Action’ in 1946.

Ironically, the division did not end even after partition of the sub-continent. All the Arabian Indian leaders who stayed back in India overnight became ‘nationalist Muslims’ and Indian National Congress accommodated them in party and the government suitably. Gradually, a sizeable number of neo-Arabian Indians jointly produced by Aligarh and Deoband also with the support of Arab money particularly after 1970s when there was a boom in the price of oil took over the command of carrying forward the legacy of Arabising Indian Muslims. Whether it was Shabano case or Babri mosque-Ram Janmabhoomi dispute these neo-Arabian Indians took the lead in mobilizing the Indian Muslim masses for their own interests..

When Will the Indian Muslim masses wake up from the slumber of Arabisation and deliver themselves from Arab Indians ? Will the events we see in the Arab World have any effect on them them? We will have to wait and see.

@ Slave Of Allah: My personal opinion about science in religious scriptures is that one can look for clues about science in a religious scripture but the exercise that some Muslims indulge in,by using Dr.Moore and Dr.Bucaille is pathetic. Some of you guys are trying to drive a round peg into a square hole. Scriptures have a definite end point, the last verse. But science is ever evolving. Having said that you have exposed your lack of knowledge of both Vedas and astronomy.

1) RiG Veda 7.55.7: This verse contains no direct reference to the sun, as you claim. But still if the bull in the verse does point to the Sun, it is only stating a universally stated cliche of sun rising from the ocean/ water body. And second part of the verse,merely states the obvious about people falling asleep, once sun sets and night arrives. So what is unscientific about the verse stating the obvious? 2) Atharvana Veda 6.5.1 DOESNOT talk about Sun (you said this verse repeats something) but it talks explicitly about Agni and its role. If you want to understand Agni, ask your friend on islamhinduism website. 3) Atharvana Veda 7.81.1 talks about new moon. The verses following it talk about the new and full moon alternating each other in a set span of days. What is unscientifc here? Arranging seasons pertains to obvious waxing and waning moon, tides being more etc etc. 4) Atharvana Veda 13.2.11: What do you mean by same is mentioned here? This verse talks about the radiance and the illumination of the Sun. What is unscientific here?

@queue, Come up with some form of justification for muhammad marrying his step sons wife. I have never heard of such a lust full person who went against his rules of not marrying more than 4, by the way can you also justify the verses for not allowing his wives to remarry when he died (hypocracy can be renamed to muhammad)

9 YEARS OLD WHEN SHE MARRIED THE PROPHET BUT THE ENEMIES OF ISLAM KNOW THIS BUT THEY CONTINUE TO SLANDER OUR PROPHET! THIS ANSWER HAS BEEN GIVEN TO ENEMIES OF ISLAM YEARS AGO, BUT THEY CONTINUE TO SLANDER A GREAT PROPHET

Dear queue. You are right. The Imams and Mullahs are the enemies of Islam who preach that Muhammad had sex with AIsha when she was 9 year old. Please check the following:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F13gtjjDEgE

You rightly said that it is proven and unambiguous that Aisha was not 9 years old when Muhammad married her. Sahih Bukhari clearly mentions that Aisha was SIX not NINE at the time of her marriage 😉

Sahih Bukhari 7.62.64:

“Narrated `Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was SIX years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).”

I agree completely with you that enemies of Islam are liars. After all marrying a baby of six is more ethical (as per Islam) than marrying a girl of nine 🙂

Thus all those Muslim Mullahs and Imams who believe that Muhammad married a baby are frauds. They are enemies of Islam. All those Hadiths of Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim that call Muhammad a child molester are fake and all Muslims who publish these Hadiths should be charged with apostasy and insulting the great Prophet.

Agniveer is true Prophet of Islam who says that all those verses of Quran and Hadiths that insult Muhammad are fake.

I am sure that Agniveer is resurrection of Jesus Christ and has come back to take us to Heaven. We should all follow him blindly if we seek heaven. Only non-believers on whose hearts Allah has put seal will refuse to believe him.

These fools wanted to kill Jesus and then banished Muhammad from Mecca. Now they are refusing to surrender to Prophet Agniveer aka Jesus Christ who has come with divine message of real Quran.

But Allah is merciful and most forgiving. Look how the Prophet Agniveer refuses to abuse even those who abuse him. As predicted by Islam, Jesus Christ will not come with a new prophecy but establish the same old prophecy. Agniveer is true Prophet of Islam who has come to take us to Heaven.

Top secretes are open:- Hindu can not understands its own god? Because gods never understand mans with his body,mind, he knows only meditations,he get absent .But muslims can’t understand it. And dare to talk only help of few words of books.get only timepass .but allah illusion of mind because arabs only belief miracles, mohammad get through hands of arabs allah’s miracle, and he safelly gone,because only one miracle in this whole world that is LIFE.

Again top secrets are open:- The whole worlds man are leaving peacefully,mercifully,and lovingly.but big barriars are comes into this leaving is relegion.Hindu,khrichan,Islam, are relegion but he could not help to leaving a man peaceful,merciful, and lovely,why? Because ego was hurt, which communities i leaving its a my own community identity.but when i bourn, i can’t understand whose my community? And whose my relegion? I am totally egoless, childs are together playing,eating,working because no ego hurts, but adultary i think what is relegion of thats man ,why appears the relegion between two peaceful mans? Only egos are coming. Only time is in hands of man present but dont talks any relegion of mans present time why? The relegion are understnds only two time future and past. He did not saying present life how are they working.All relegions importance are only god,allah but why he did not get importance of man? Whose revelation of Quran,bible?answer a man, Whose hands of revelations answer a man. But quran and bible only praise of allah,god why? He did not leaving here, he did not see here, and after death who see there? Only imagine….. Imagine…..Minds are machine of imagination,anybody can imagine,god,allah be also imaginary facts of man. Which mans imaginary power are strong he get the vision of allah and god.

Dear friend, arshad ji, that is the differents of truth and untruth.you understand it very simple the pure philosophy of vedanta teaches egolessness,thoughtlessness, and timelessness. Understanding power can limited,any mans can think three ways one is bodily,thoughtly and third imotionally.truths only understands beyond of this three ways.All hindus are well understand thats truth. He works only just happen called LEELA. Any muslim does not dare to imagine of allah in self why? Because he fear, duality also be fearer. Only nonduality are fearless because all is one,and that one was me. Any man can fear himsef? Nothing. You again say you are aalim ? I am not sure. but you are perfectly aalim.because all mans are knowledgeable.but noor are same. This noor helps all man’s in everytime, but man was busy.He goes only completed its own dirty desires, like money,power,and women,housees. Muhhammad so simple leaving, no big money collects, no big houses are stay,no more desire. Noor only helps simple man.lord mahaveer,lord buddha,lord shankaracharya,socretis,laotsu,zurthrust are enlightened because noor helps them.you are also be enlightened few days. You starts a namaj you think a question who starts namaj body or mind?.your mind say this is kufra,what are you doing? But not saying your mind.again and again you clearly see that two parts of body.one was mind second was noor.

@Arshad brother justify it by urself wat is said in Quran … Quran (2:191-193) – “And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]…and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah.”

Quran (2:244) – “Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things.”

Quran (2:216) – “Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.” Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding caravans with this verse.

Quran (3:56) – “As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help.”

Quran (3:151) – “Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority”.

Quran (4:74) – “Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.”

Quran (4:76) – “Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…”

Quran (4:89) – “They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks.”

Quran (4:95) – “Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-”

Quran (4:104) – “And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain…”

Quran (8:12) – “I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them”

Quran (8:15) – “O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey’s end.”

Brother you can’t deny these facts , even there are more such examples but If I post them too then I’ll have to post entire Quran for that ….

Mussalman fears allah,and then mussalman fears others innocent people, what a good peace? Fears man can be peace? Nothing, he spreads only fear. Dozzak,zahhannum,kayamat -judgement day,boiled heated water to ,cutting a body parts,all non muslims are get darkness hell.this was a old man’s unmature thinking.allah was fearer, anybody can love it? And others enlightened mans like, lord mahaveer,lord krishna,lord buddha,laoutse,pleto,socretis,are mad? Only islamic thinkers are great and true?real truth is called vedanta because this was the first and last philosophy of man’s.fearlessness,thoughtlessness,egolessness, that man was a pure man.he knows truth on inner.muhhammad goes inner but don’t understand,he get first fears, but secondly he sucess.muhammad knows nameless god,but childess people does not understand. He knows what about jejus. He accept allah a false name of god,because he understand no name of god. Muhammad not success without allah because, arabian people belief many gods.muhammad thinking only one god sufficent but he knows that,god can not help in inner state.muhammad accept allah because he understand without god all arabs does not understand and he was kill him, and he accept a book because fundamentalist does not supports without books.

Islam means peace,but where? Inner or outer? Outer peace not done before inner peace. Islam means inner deep state of mind . That is the vedanta truth. Vedanta say no peace outer go inner.All muslims go to inner and understand peace. This activities firstly working mohammad,arabs does not understand of this activities of muhammad he against that.he say muhammad are devils work. But muhammad well knowing vedanta a supreem knowledge.first proof his newly developed activities.second

hi all.. this discussion is surely making me laugh to death….. as i m a bit of unbeliever… so surely deserve death. :)) as far as spreading ones religion is concerened………………. only those strive to spread their religion who r at risk of its credibility and extinction.. its a law of nature………………… everything tries its best to make a last stand before final extinction…… hence more wives ,, more children,, more marketing and more selling……. hey agni… i dont agree with u a bit on Dr Zakir being a terrorist.. u just cant label someone like that……… without having enough prove of him being directly involved in ne such activities…. but on the other hand u can surely label this respected and talented man as the best marketing agent and salesman of islam…… i wonder where islam wud have been without him for the last few years… he surely has revolutionazed the spread of islam and made more fanatics than ever. such a hard working man…. well even christians do that as they too are not that secured abt their own faith…. though i m not a firm believer of ne faith but i still can bet that hinduism is in good hands will survive till infinite times and their is no need to debate or give an explaination to ne of the claims of ne religion…. so feel secured guys and chilll. wht mr Zakir and other religious fanatics are doing will only filter out the dirt thats been buidling around in hinduism ( those who are not nobel enough to understand the real path to salvation) which is surely going to make it even more pure and refined.. so in a way we shud thank these guys and have faith on our own believes… i believe our culture is most tolerant and have adopted all faiths and cultures and even that hasnt taken away our faith…. even if every last hindu is wiped off this earth….. or converted to islam… the true knowledge is still gonna be there in this universe to be rediscovered by some others in later times.bcz it is the only true knowledge….

i still can bet that hinduism is in good hands will survive till infinite times and their is no need to debate or give an explaination to ne of the claims of ne religion…. so feel secured guys and chilll.

Of course from the perspective of the universe, earth and earthlings are inconsequential and your point sounds valid.

but adding the buddhist ‘chill’ to hinduism seems inordnitae. Rolling heads and burning Nalanda is the play of the divine for some while lessons learned for others 🙂

You appear a careless and complacent Hindu guy who won’t wake up till the disaster comes. You are just over confident about your wisdom and hence underestimating the danger of islam. If Hindus keep ignoring the threat of islam as most Hindus have been doing at present, then days are not far when they would be overpowered, defeated, humiliated, persecuted, subjugated, converted/enslaved by muslims again. Hindus have already been enslaved and ruled for nearly one thousand year due to their own foolishness of not able to recognize the evils and danger of islam. Why cann’t you see the plights, persecution, insult, torture, killings, and forced conversion of Hindus in Kashmir, Pakistan, Bangladesh, etc.

So, pls stop your nonsense argument that conversion of Hindus to muslims is refinement of Hindu society. You are trying to misguide Hindus by your absurd logic.

Hindus must open their eyes and try to understand the evils as well as grave danger of islam. We must stop marriages of any Hindu/Buddhist/Jain/Sikh/Christian/Parsi girl to any muslim guy under any circumstances even if he is a celebrity, highly educated, polite, sweet-spoken, well-behaved, billionaire or very successful muslim. Muslims must not be raised to the positions of PM, Army chief, etc in India as it would be self-suicidal for Hindus/Sikhs/Buddhists/Jain/Parsi/Christians living in India.

I don’t think that Agniveer articles can change muslims much. Some muslims may start thinking a bit logically after reading Agniveer articles, but this won’t make much difference. Even those muslims won’t leave islam and continue to promote islam, raise their children as muslims, and they (their children) are likely to become the blind followers of kuran, sharia, etc under the influence of islamic books, lectures, websites, videos, mullas, muslim-apologists, muslim-brotherhood, mosque, religious emotions, fear of imaginary allah, etc.

I completely disagree that there was a so called noble muhammad (as Agniveer suggests), and he preached the good version of islam. Muhammad (the so called prophet) was only one who was a rapist, pedophile, mass-murderer, butcher, robber, terrorist, cheater, liar, extremely cunning, evil and cruel person, etc, and he invented Allah and Islam which has been the most evil ideology in the name of religion since early 7th century.

Islam cannot be modified. If Agniveer or someone tries to modify islam, then cunning muslims may pretend (do taqqiayah) to have become less fundamentalist towards islam and liberal towards non-muslims. By doing so, they would fool non-muslims and gain extra-ordinary concessions from non-muslims (such as become PM or army chief of India) saying that they have modified their religion in the way the non-muslims wanted. After gaining sufficient power from non-muslims so as to defeat them, muslims would revert back to the original version of islam, that is the Zakir Naik’s version of islam, which is actually the islam as proposed by cunning and cruel muhammad. Hence, non-muslims must reject islam and muhammad altogether considering them inhumane, anti-women, fraud, barbaric, full of lies/deception, illogical, nonsense, absurd, double-standard, biased, etc.

One should not trust any muslims regardless of how much educated, well-behaved, etc he/she is. Only ex-muslims may be trusted, but not the likes of Obama who converted to Christianity to take the benefit in USA, but he continues to be hardcore muslim by heart, mind, action and speech.

I don’t know why you guys speaking about ISLAM as you don’t need to worry…leave us as we are….we just no need of your suggestions and your research….and one thing I want to tell you, It may hurt u though…

Now one thing from my side for you which will surely hurt you if your intellect is capable enough to grasp it 🙂

RATS ARE FOUND IN ALL SMALL AND BIG HOUSES IN THE WORLD….BUT IT DOES NOT MAKE THEM OWNERS OF THE HOUSES. THEY ALWAYS LIVE IN STINKING HOLES THINKING THAT SINCE SUCH HOLES ARE FOUND IN EVERY HOUSE OF THE WORLD, RATS ARE BEST 🙁

@MS Islam will be in every small and big house in the world? Not in my house it wont. TRY ME. I am more than capable of defending my faith.

6 billion people in the world, 1 billion muslims 5 billion infidels, who had more than enough of islam and fed up of it. If all the 5 billion join hands, kufr, not islam will be in every house in the world. ;))

A person who justifies killing apostates, justifies forgiveness of criminals after they committed heinous sins/crimes such as rape/murder by simply reciting the shahada, justifies the slaughter of millions of animals each year, justifies preaching of islam in non muslim countries and forbids vice versa what do you call such a man? A saint??? A seer???

At times we consider this Naik to be far more dangerous than terrorists, because at least terrorists do not speak out publically on their upcoming dirty plans, whereas Naik openly tells muslims should apostates if they preach their new religiona and criticize islam in an islamic country.

We are in sync with you on this. We are trying our level best to destroy the monster of birth based caste system and need everyone to cooperate.

We now plan to deliberately create a brigade of converts and so-called lower castes who are trained to become Brahmins and have them conduct religious rituals. We shall give them names that are same as those of caste-based Brahmins and hence break the very foundation of birth-based superiority.

no one is safe in a male dominated society, india was not a male dominated country before islamic invasion,even queen used to sit with king in darbaar

THIS IS THE ONE AND ONLY REASON BEHIND EVERY PROBLEM.

1. It’s a fact that behind every problem of this world there are dishonest, corrupt and bad people. 2. Now question is why people become bad, dishonest and corrupt??? Answer is people become bad, dishonest and corrupt when they are not a complete person. Men and Women are not a complete person without each other; they are the best half of each other. But still today you find less women than men everywhere, be it buses, offices, parks, metros, rails, markets, streets, restaurants, politics, police, army etc. etc. 3. Solution of this problem can be this– a. Special recruitment drives for women only in various departments so that gender gap can be filled. b. Financial help for girl child for her education and marriage. c. Check on some particular Bollywood films that are degrading the image of Indian women with the help of pak and dubai’s mafia. d. Seal the border of Bangladesh. e. Apply uniform civil code so that no one can easily divorce or have more than one wife in the name of Muslim Personal Laws. f. Stop Arab Sheikhs to buy girls and check on Red light areas.

DO YOU WANT TO KNOW HOW DIRTY ABUSES OF MOTHER AND SISTERS, THE SATI PARTHA, FEMALE INFANTICIDE AND TRADITION OF GHUNGHAT OR PARDA STARTED IN INDIA??? READ THIS—

Before Islamic invasion in India women were equally free and active like men, even queen used to sit with king in darbaar and taking equal participation in society. Women like Gargi and Matriya are the best examples of it. Cave paintings of Ajanta Ellora also indicate the equality of women in society. Worshipping of women as goddesses and Devi’s or Mother is the specialty of Indian culture. Maa Durga, Laxmi, Maa Saraswati and many other Devis are the example of it.

But after the Islamic invasion when Islamic invaders raped, killed and forced millions of Indian women to accept Islam then everything changed and Sati pratha, female infanticide, tradition of Ghunghat or Parda were the only choices left for the Indians to save Indian women from cruel and lusty Islamic invaders.

The dirty abuses of mother and sisters were also started by Islamic invaders because they were not happy to see that women are worshipped as goddesses or Devis in Indian culture.

Urdu sher o’ sharai is the height of cheapness and vulgarity. There is no word for divorce in hindi but urdu has-Talaq.

Still today some particular films of Indian cinema is degrading the image of Indian women with the help of pak n dubai’s mafia.

Sir, Agniveer team is appealing Indian muslims to return to Vedic dharma, but Hindus (followers of Vedic dharma) are divided on caste basis, and every Hindu must belong to some caste that is decided by the caste of his/her parents. So, if a muslim wants to convert to a Hindu, then what will be his/her caste and unless he/she has a defined caste, where he/she would search bride/groom for his/her children given that 99% Hindus love caste system too much, refuse to do inter-caste marriage and 99.99% marriages of Hindus are confined within same caste. Hence, basic flaw is in Hindu’s caste system itself. I strongly believe that during muslim rule in India, a large population of weaker Hindu castes might have embraced islam due to being exploited/tyrannized by stronger castes of Hindus. Caste-based favor, discrimination, exploitation, conspiracy, voting, election of MP/ MLA / local bodies, recruitment/promotion, formation of Govt/cabinet is common in India. Everywhere caste plays very vital, but mischievous role–it is the ugly truth of India–hence there is rampant corruption from top to bottom in India–the basic reason is caste system of Hindus.

Therefore, if Agniveer group or anyone else is genuinely interested in reverting the Indian muslims back to Vedic Dharma, or converting any non-Hindu to a Hindu, then they must launch a war-level campaign/revolution for intercaste-matrimonial relations among the hindu families of similar financial/educational/social status–otherwise hardly any muslim or non-Hindu would embrace Vedic dharma regardless of how honestly, strongly and logically we appeal to them. Caste system of Hindus is badly criticized by Christians/muslims/jews/Buddhists, but most Hindus always defend it by giving illogical/ridiculous replies.

We are in sync with you on this. We are trying our level best to destroy the monster of birth based caste system and need everyone to cooperate.

We now plan to deliberately create a brigade of converts and so-called lower castes who are trained to become Brahmins and have them conduct religious rituals. We shall give them names that are same as those of caste-based Brahmins and hence break the very foundation of birth-based superiority.

Excellent idea. This will definitely bring about the desired result. I am also determined to do my bit to remove untouchabilty by organising a get together dinner prepared by the so called untouchables in at least a couple of villages whenever I go to my village next time. I will try to give it a shape of a social movement in my region to start with. Inspired by the Agniveer movement, I have got direction to serve the society and humanity in a meaningful way. The true work has ultimately be on the ground level.

Just wanted to bring to the attention of agniveer readers/writers about the existence of a very good Arab ex-Muslim channel on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/user/TXHalabi The guy knows Arabic and Muslims shit bricks at his plain truth speaking. Hopefully some of our Indian Muslim brothers can learn from such ex-Muslims who are proficient in Arabic to understand the hate-speech that is Quran and reconvert back to their ancestral Dharmic faiths. Har Har Mahadev.

In addition to 10-points of this article, Islam won’t be a threat only if

(1) it rejects sharia law that allows muslim men to keep up to four wives at the same time and divorce one or more of them just by uttering “talaq” few times without any need to pay maintenance allowance/compensation to the divorced wife. Muslims must follow the same terms and conditions for marriage & divorce as non-muslims do in any country. Islam must also disallow wife-beating or forcing wife to act as per his will as a right of husbands.

(2) it declares that blasphemy is no longer a punishable offense and anyone is free to logically question/doubt/criticize allah/quran/sharia/muhammad openly without any fear of attack/murder/prosecution/imprisonment etc. Logical criticism of any religion/prophet/book/god etc must be allowed as freedom of expression and as a need of evolution of new/better ideas/concepts.

(3) it rejects the concept of islamic brotherhood and loyalty to islam. As per this dangerous concept muslims consider islam as more important than humanity and their country, they consider they are muslim first, then Indian, Pakistani, etc and they can betray their country for the sake of islam, they consider any muslim more important than their fellow non-muslims. Islam should declare humanity and honest service to one’s country being more important than any religion.

(4) it declares that “taqaiyah” or “lying/pretending/cheating to fool non-muslims” for the benefits of islam/muslim community is no longer acceptable and is a heinous sin. Lying can be allowed only in some exceptional circumstances such as to save someone’s life or avoid disgrace/humiliation without harming anyone else.

Agniveer Sir, I would request you to add one more explicit point to “Islam will not be a threat if” (1) Islam respects the right of freedom of expression, i.e. No one can be charged of blasphemy and punished/prosecuted/threatened directly or indirectly for the same if he/she criticizes/questions/doubts islam, kuran, hadith, sharia, sira, muhammad, prophet,allah, etc. One can freely write/talk/demonstrate/publish/telecast/broadcast/make audio/video on critical analysis of islam/kuran/hadith/sharia/muhammad/allah or gods/godlesses/prophet/saints/books/scriptures/practices of any religion including islam provided one should take care not to use vulgar, immodest, indecent, rude, unconstitutional words/phrases/sketches etc. Any one who threatens or attacks such critics/speakers/writers/film-producers/website-owners/ etc would be declared criminal by all countries including all the Islamic countries and be prosecuted/punished severely.

Never believe a Muslim when he says Islam is religion of peace and Muslim have great respect for other religions because he is lying or practicing Takia this can be easily understood from the Islamic Republic of Pakistan where draconian laws like Blasphemous Law of Pakistan are there and Pakistani Muslim use this law for terrorizing Hindus, Sikhs and christians they can falsely accuse non muslims and then police can also rape the woman of the accused or burn the accused. See some selected case of Pakistan. See the selected case of Blasphemous Law of Pakistan below:

Between 1988 and 2005, Pakistani authorities charged 647 people with offences under the blasphemy laws. Fifty percent of the people charged were non-Muslim. Twenty of those charged were murdered soon after the charge was laid.[9][15]

In November 2010, Asia Bibi was sentenced to death by hanging on a charge of blasphemy; the case that has yet to be upheld by the Lahore High Court has sparked international reactions.

In July 2010, the Lahore High Court ordered the release of Zaibun Nisa, a woman who was jailed in 1996 on a charge of blasphemy when police were investigating a complaint that a Quran had been defiled. Nisa’s lawyer reported, “There was no evidence linking her to the crime.”[16]

In July 2010, a trader in Faisalabad complained that one of his employees had been handed a pamphlet which contained disrespectful remarks about Muhammad. According to the police, the pamphlet appeared to have the signatures and addresses of Pastor Rashid Emmanuel and his brother Sajid, who were Christians. While the police were escorting the brothers from a district court, gunmen shot and killed both.[17] Allama Ahmed Mian Hammadi, a Pakistani Muslim cleric, has claimed that Shahbaz Bhatti, Pakistan’s Federal Minister for Minorities has himself committed blasphemy by branding the recently murdered Christian brothers as victims of Pakistan blasphemy laws. Bhatti had spoken out about the murder last week of Rashid Emmanuel, 30, and his brother Sajid, 27, by unidentified masked gunmen inside a courthouse in Faisalabad. The brothers had been accused of blaspheming the Prophet Muhammad earlier this month, a charge they had both denied. According to Mr Hammadi’s statement, published in Daily Jasarat, a Pakistani Urdu daily newspaper, the Muslim cleric said that Muslims cannot tolerate blasphemy against the Prophet Muhammad. “It is not a cruelty to kill blasphemers, rather blasphemy itself is such an enormous brutality that the one who commits it neither has got a right to live in this world nor is there any pardon for the blasphemer,” Daily Jasarat quoted Mr Hammadi as saying. “Muslims won’t tolerate even a slightest blasphemy against Prophet Muhammad. If Shahbaz Bhatti committed blasphemy he would be beheaded.” Source: Christiantoday.com

On 4 August 2009, a Muslim mob attacked a factory-owner by the name of Najeebullah and others at Sheikhupura in the Punjab. The mob killed Najeebullah and two others, and set fire to the factory. The mob complained that Najeebullah had placed an outdated calendar, which contained verses from the Quran, on a table. For that offense, a worker accused Najeebullah of blasphemy. The workers may have been in a dispute with Najeebullah over wages.[18][19]

On 30 July 2009, hundreds of members of Sipah-e-Sahaba, a banned Muslim organization, torched Christian homes and killed Christians in the Punjabi city of Gojra and in the nearby village of Korian. The proferred reason for the violence was that a Christian had defiled a Quran. Christian mobs retaliated. Fighting between Muslim and Christian groups went on through 1 August 2009.[20][21][22]

On 28 January 2009, the police in Punjab arrested a labourer and four students for blasphemy. All those arrested were Ahmadi. The accusation against them was that they wrote “Prophet Muhammad” on the wall of a toilet in a Sunni mosque. The senior superintendent of police investigated and reported to the Ministry of the Interior at the end of March 2009 that the accusation was baseless.[11][23][24]

In May 2008, Punjabi police jailed Robin Sardar, a Christian physician, upon an accusation of blasphemy from a Muslim street-vendor who wanted to install himself in front of Sardar’s clinic.[25]

In February 2008, Special Rapporteurs of the United Nations Human Rights Council reminded Pakistan’s representative of the matter regarding Raja Fiaz, Muhammad Bilal, Nazar Zakir Hussain, Qazi Farooq, Muhammad Rafique, Muhammad Saddique and Ghulam Hussain. According to the allegations received, the men were members of the Mehdi Foundation International (MFI), a multi-faith institution utilizing the mystical principles of Ra Gohar Shahi. They were arrested on 23 December 2005 in Wapda Town. The police confiscated posters on which Gohar Shahi was shown as “Imam Mehdi.” On 13 July 2006, the Anti-Terrorism Court No. 1 in Lahore sentenced each accused to five years of imprisonment, inter alia, under § 295-A for having outraged others’ religious feelings. Since 27 August 2006, the seven men have been detained in Sahiwal Jail, Punjab, where they were forced to parade naked, and were suspended from the ceiling and beaten. The prisoners’ records were posted outside the cell, and falsely indicated that they had been sentenced under § 295-C. For this reason, they were constantly threatened and intimidated by prison staff as well as by other detainees. One MFI member was targeted by several other inmates and sexually assaulted. Subsequently, other staff members sexually abused him and pushed burning cigarette butts into his anus.[26]

On 28 October 2007, the police arrested Muhammad Imran of Faisalabad under § 295-B for allegedly setting fire to a Quran. For three days, the police kept Imran in a torture-cell where they tortured him. Then the police sent him to a jail where other inmates attacked him. His jailers put Imran into solitary confinement without attending to his injuries. On 14 April 2009, an Additional Sessions judge released Imran.[27]

On 9 May 2007, Raja Riaz, a servant, accused his master, Walter Fazal Khan Khan, 84, a Christian, of burning a Quran at his house. The police arrested Khan under § 295-B. Kahn’s family and others said Riaz’s accusation was part of a plot to take Khan’s valuable house and land from him.[28][29]

In April 2007, upon a charge of blasphemy, the police in Toba Tek Singh jailed five Christians: Salamat Masih, his son Rashid, and their relatives Ishfaq, Saba, and Dao Masih. The allegation against the Christians was that they desecrated pieces of paper that bore Muhammad’s name. On 25 January 2009, the authorities released the Christians, and Muslim clerics agreed to issue a fatwa which declared that the accusation of blasphemy was unsound.[30]

Christians and Muslims in Pakistan condemned Dan Brown’s novel The Da Vinci Code as blasphemous. On 3 June 2006, Pakistan banned the film. Culture Minister Ghulam Jamal said: “Islam teaches us to respect all the prophets of God Almighty and degradation of any prophet is tantamount to defamation of the rest.”[31]

Two Christians, both elderly men from Faisalabad, Punjab, were acquitted by the Lahore High Court in April 2009. In November 2006, the two had been sentenced to 10 years in prison for allegedly burning pages from the Quran. The allegation arose apparently out of a dispute over land.[11]

In March 2006, the police arrested Shafeeq Lateef for making derogatory remarks about Muhammad and for desecrating a Quran. On 18 June 2008, a District and Sessions court sentenced Lateef to death for his alleged remarks and demanded that he pay a fine of 500,000 rupees for desecrating a Quran.[32] Arshed Masih, 38, is still fighting for his life in Holy Family Hospital in Rawalpindi, a city not far from Pakistan’s capital. With the help of police, Muslim extremists last Friday set him on fire for refusing to convert to Islam and raped his wife, local sources told AsiaNews.it. The incident occurred in front of a local police station. In 2005, Masih and his wife began working for a wealthy Muslim businessman, he as driver and she as his wife’s maid. Recently, the two fell out of favour with their employer and his family because they insisted on remaining Christian. During the incident, Masih’s wife, Martha, “was raped by police agents,” local sources said. The couple’s three children, ranging in age from 7 and 12, were forced to watch their parents being brutalised. No action taken by the Government.

On 11 August 2005, Judge Arshad Noor Khan of the Anti-Terrorist Court found Younus Shaikh guilty of defiling a copy of the Quran, outraging religious feelings, and propagating religious hatred among society.[33] Shaikh’s conviction occurred because he wrote a book: Shaitan Maulvi (Satanic Cleric). The book said stoning to death (Rajam) as a punishment for adultery was not mentioned in the Quran. The book said also that four historical imams (religious leaders) were Jews.[34] The judge imposed upon Shaikh a fine of 100,000 rupees, and sentenced him to spend his life in jail.[35]

On 20 November 2003, the police arrested Anwar Masih, a day labourer, a Christian, a married father of four (at that time), a resident of Shahdara, a town next to Lahore.[13][36] The police charged Masih under § 295-B. The charge arose out of an encounter that Masih had with a neighbour who had grown a beard. The neighbor disclosed that he had converted from Christianity to Islam. Masih and the neighbour exchanged harsh words. The neighbour reported to the police that Masih had insulted Muhammad. The Lahore High Court acquitted Masih on 24 December 2004. In August 2005, Masih took a job in a factory. In November 2007, he lost the job when his employer was threatened for employing a “blasphemer.” Masih went into hiding.[13]

In August 2003, the police arrested a Christian, Samuel Masih, for allegedly defiling a mosque by spitting on its wall. While in prison, Masih contracted tuberculosis. The authorities transported him to a hospital. There, on 24 May 2004, a police constable used a hammer to kill Masih. The constable said it was his duty as a Muslim to kill Masih.[37][38]

In October 2000, Pakistani authorities charged Younus Shaikh, a physician, with blasphemy on account of remarks that students claimed he made during a lecture. The students alleged that, inter alia, Shaikh had said Muhammad’s parents were non-Muslims because they died before Islam existed. A judge ordered that Shaikh pay a fine of 100,000 rupees, and that he be hanged.[39] On 20 November 2003, a court retried the matter and acquitted Shaikh, who fled Pakistan for Europe soon thereafter.[40]

In 2000, a court sentenced Naseem Ghani and Mohammed Shafiq to seven years imprisonment upon allegations that they had burned a Quran.[9]

The police arrested Ayub Masih, a Pakistani Christian bricklayer, for blasphemy on 14 October 1996, and jailed him for violation of § 295-C. Muhammad Akram, a Muslim neighbor to Masih, complained to the police that Masih had said Christianity was right, and Masih had recommended that Akram read Salman Rushdie’s Satanic Verses.[8][41]

The same day Masih was arrested, Muslim villagers forced the entire Christian population of Masih’s village (fourteen families) to leave it. Masih’s family had made application under a government program that gave housing plots to landless people. Local landlords resented Masih’s application because the landlords had been able to oblige landless Christians to work in the fields in exchange for a place to live. Masih’s application gave him a way out of his subservience to the landlords.[9] Upon Masih’s arrest, the authorities gave Masih’s plot to Akram.[8] Akram shot and injured Masih in the halls of the Session Court at Sahiwal on 6 November 1997. Four assailants attacked Masih in jail. The authorities took no action against Akram or against the other assailants.[8]

On 20 April 1998, Judge Abdul Khan sentenced Masih to death and levied a fine of 100,000 rupees. Two judges of the Lahore High Court heard Masih’s appeal on 24 July 2001. Shortly thereafter, the judges affirmed the judgment of the trial court.[8] On 16 August 2002, the Supreme Court of Pakistan set aside the judgment of the lower courts. The Supreme Court noted Akram’s acquisition of Masih’s property, and concluded the case had been fabricated for personal gain. The court also noted other breaches in the law of due process.[42][43]

Judge Arif Iqbal Hussain Bhatti was assassinated on 19 October 1997 in his Lahore office after acquitting two people who were accused of blasphemy.[8]

Riaz Ahmad, his son, and two nephews (Basharat Ahmad, Qamar Ahmad and Mushtaq Ahmad), all Ahmadis, were arrested and jailed on 21 November 1993. They were detained for having “said something derogatory.” Local people in Piplan, Mianwali District, said that rivalry over Ahmad’s position as village headman was the real motivation for the complaint against him. The Sessions Court rejected the bail applications of the accused. The Supreme Court granted bail in December 1997.[6][9][13]

In February 1993, Anwar Masih, a Christian from Samundri in Punjab, went to jail upon a Muslim shopkeeper’s allegation that, during an argument over money, Masih had insulted Muhammad.[9]

In November 1992, Gul Masih, a Christian, was sentenced to death after having remarked to his neighbor Mohammad Sajjad, a Muslim, he had read “that Mohammed had 11 wives, including a minor.”

You may post millions links & depend on internet world of Islam. for me

Well I am still not convince by your falsehood of Islam. i am relieved that I am not the one who pondering on other religions to save own religion.

1. As mention in Holy Quran not to abuse any false god, i will always go this path.

2. I am not forcing anyone to embrace islam, as stated in Holy Quran compulsion in religion is not allowed.

3. I will never make fun of anyone or give names as Holy Quran preaches.

My intention here is to preach positiveness & truth about Islam.

I will always go to straight path.

1. There is only one Allah, Muhammad(pbup) is messenger of Allah. 2. Charity for everyone 3. Struggle for justice & truth 4. Pray for eternal kindness & bring us on straight path 5. Fast to save food & water for everyone and for good health. 6. Hajj to mark respect as one, to beautiful religion islam.

Atleast we have strength to fast for 1 month, so I am requesting you the same do you have that strength for self sacrifice.

Well you do not need to meditate to understand your soul. You just need to do some actions by helping one another in terms of charity, kindness or any other means. Then when everyone accepts you as kind soul. You will realize the beauty of humanity & Islam. simple

my kind & humble request.

I want authentic vedas complied, so i can read online, such as Quran is shared online. kindly share the link.

People who are astray goes wrong path, its time to educate them to bring straight path.

Peace What answers do you have for Agniveer’s and Indian Agnostic’s quotes from Hadith and Quran? You are not convinced because you think of anything against Islam as falsehood. You gave canceled verses and when exposed, you did not even accept your ignorance/lie. Now you are teaching us what Quran says! No listen what quran says

1. Calling other’s God as false itself is an offence and it is already an abuse. But wait, I have some more. One verse of Quran calls the idolaters as worst of creatures! I know what you will say on this, simply I am not convinced!

2. You need/can not force anyone to Islam. Ghazis have converted half the population of Indian subcontinent to Muslims in last 1000 years through sword and rape. But before blabbering no compulsion in Islam, read Ayat e Saif (verse of sword) which orders Muslims to kill Kafirs wherever you find them. Now say again you are not convinced!

3. Holy Quran itself is full of hatred towards others so you dont need to say additional from your side.

4. You are going to straight path where Muhammad is associated with LAASHAREEK Allah in prayers and even in passport to heaven.

5. Charity for Muslims only, it has been proven by Indian Agnostic.

6. Struggle for making everyone Muslim and this is the mere definition of truth in Islam, i.e. fight through sword until Kuffar exists.

7. Pray hell for non Muslims.

8. Eat in night and fast in days.

9. Hajj to visit the house of Allah and birth place of Muhammad, to kiss the stone, to circumambulate it. Still you are not an idolater!

10. You rightly pointed out that one does not need meditation if the only aim of this life and all good deeds is to get 72 hoories with transparent body and big bosoms.

11. People in Pakistan, Afganistan, Iraq, Somalia, etc are realizing the beauty and humanity in Islam. After all getting blown in a bomb attack while praying Allah in Mosque will lead to heaven directly!

Peace What answers do you have for Agniveer’s and Indian Agnostic’s quotes from Hadith and Quran? You are not convinced because you think of anything against Islam as falsehood. You gave canceled verses and when exposed, you did not even accept your ignorance/lie. Now you are teaching us what Quran says! No listen what quran says

Answer- Well he convinces others by depending highly on internet links and videos.

1. Calling other’s God as false itself is an offence and it is already an abuse. But wait, I have some more. One verse of Quran calls the idolaters as worst of creatures! I know what you will say on this, simply I am not convinced!

Answer- Please share the verse do not quote blindly.

2. You need/can not force anyone to Islam. Ghazis have converted half the population of Indian subcontinent to Muslims in last 1000 years through sword and rape. But before blabbering no compulsion in Islam, read Ayat e Saif (verse of sword) which orders Muslims to kill Kafirs wherever you find them. Now say again you are not convinced!

Answers – Read history of Islam, it was painful day for Muslims to come to this extent to uphold the truth, where this verse were given.

3. Holy Quran itself is full of hatred towards others so you dont need to say additional from your side.

4. You are going to straight path where Muhammad is associated with LAASHAREEK Allah in prayers and even in passport to heaven.

5. Charity for Muslims only, it has been proven by Indian Agnostic.

Answer- my understanding is for everyone from Holy Quran. he depends highly on internet links to convince others.

6. Struggle for making everyone Muslim and this is the mere definition of truth in Islam, i.e. fight through sword until Kuffar exists.

Answer – please read history of Islam, it was painful day & sword was taken up against the opponents who torture them & came with surprise attack..

My humble request do fast for 1 month without food and water. you can achieve this by not eat in excess as Islam preaches.

9. Hajj to visit the house of Allah and birth place of Muhammad, to kiss the stone, to circumambulate it. Still you are not an idolater!

Answer – A pilgrim circumambulates the Kaaba as if he or she is a celestial body orbiting another greater body. Circumambulation of the Kaaba is to be performed anti-clockwise. This indicates that there is a joint factor between a pilgrim’s expressing his ultimate faith in Almighty Allah by circumambulating the Kaaba in that way and between the cosmic laws of revolution discussed above. This indicates that there is consistency between the obligations of worship in Islam and the natural laws that govern the universe, which indicates that they all belong to only one source, that is, Almighty Allah.

10. You rightly pointed out that one does not need meditation if the only aim of this life and all good deeds is to get 72 hoories with transparent body and big bosoms.

Answer- kindly share verse in Holy Quran

11. People in Pakistan, Afganistan, Iraq, Somalia, etc are realizing the beauty and humanity in Islam. After all getting blown in a bomb attack while praying Allah in Mosque will lead to heaven directly!

Answer – People who goes astray goes wrong path and do wrong things and its time to educate to bring them to straight path.

Peace Ans1. I like mangoes. Ans2. My maths teacher was very good. Ans3. I have 50 friends. Ans4. Dont quote out of context. Ans5. Why dont you challenge Zakir Naik? Ans6. Zakir Naik does not debate with any Tom, Dick, and Harry. Ans7. Muhammad (SAW) was the best man ever born. Ans8. Previous books were corrupted. ans9. New books were sent because human mind evolved. Ans10. No book will come because Allah has sent his final book. Ans11. Islam means peace. Ans12. You are quoting from anti Islamic websites. Ans13. Muhammad (SAW) is the final messenger of Allah. Ans14. Muslims dont bow to Kaba but they bow to Allah. Ans15. Muslims bow to Kaba because they believe in unity.

Oh!! I forgot that questions were 11 only. OK, no problem, count extra four as prior answers to your next four questions which you will ask just after I paste this comment.

AND I WON BECAUSE I REPLIED ALL YOUR QUESTIONS, IN FACT FOUR EXTRA QUESTIONS!

1. Obliously Kafirs will go to hell. Why did they refuse ALLAH SWT? 2. oBLIOUSLY mUSLIMS WILL GET JANNAT. BECAUSE THEY SURRENDERED TO allah swt. 3. Regarding Women ALLAH knows the best. ask him in judgement day. 4.jijya is a tax. it must be paid. 5.I couldnt understand the 5th question.

king What is Islam? One man stood one day shouting that I am the last prophet! Who confirmed it? Again the same person, who lied the people! He shouted one day that he broke the moon! Who confirmed it? Again the same person! He shouted one day that he went to skies on a flying donkey to meet Allah! Who confirmed it? Again the same person! He shouted one day that he has seen heaven and hell! Who confirmed it? Again the same person! (Now let me use your own language!)

and see How Big Fool You are…you believed it….

What is the proof that Muhammad was prophet….??????? Give me any single proof…

Muhammad was recognized as prophet by most illiterate tribe of that time, The Arabs as per Quran….why to believe them…..

What a sick ******* liar you are ,…. just by writing “king” you can be King!….fool…grow up

King even if you don’t believe faithfreedom then also there are many other sources like international human rights agencies which say that Pakistan and Bangladeshi is the most dangerous place for minorities in the world. PAKISTAN’S DREADED BLASPHEMOUS LAW IS USED TO TERRORIZE THE MINORITIES. If a Muslim rape a Hindu woman or murder and steal a Hindus lands He only have to say in the court that the Hindu or his family have insulted Mohammad and he can get away with Rape and Murder and will be released without any punishment. PAKISTAN’S THIS BLASPHEMOUS LAW IS CALLED THE CANNIBAL LAW THE WORLD OVER. Contrary to this muslims are enjoying like anything in Hindu Majority area of India unlike our Hindu Brothers who are suffering in Pakistan and Bangladesh and begging for their lives in front of mullahs. PAKISTANIS CANNIBALS GIVE ONE WEEK OR ONE MONTH’S SALARY TO TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS LIKE LASHKAR AND HIZBUL MUJAHEDDIN.

Are you done with your fairytales? Can you please tell me which Hindu leader has praised the bomb blast accused, (of course no stories from you, provide the link)? Afzal Guru, Madani…etc all are having merry time in this country why??? You people protests here that too violent, if America bomb Iraq, Afghanistan. But you people never ever protested like that when kashmiri muslims attack our army in kashmir, when pakistani’s bomb our country why? why these double standards??

Come over from mullachap thinking…that whole world is against you people. Its the other way around, Muslims are targetting nonmuslims. And when your guilt is proven, you people start making stories.

You lecture us about equality, tell me how many Muslim dominated countries practice this thing?

king When Muslim friends and their mentor Zakir Naik beat their chest for Islam being fastest growing (a false claim though), why dont you apply the same logic there? Just few days ago, Tony Blair’s relative converted to Islam! Whole Muslims Ummah started looking it as their victory over non Muslims! Why so? Act of individual looks to you a generalized consensus in some cases but it remains individual in other cases why?

What is double standard?

1. When a hindu do bomb blast they don;t call them terrorist….but when a Muslim do…they are called….

Did any Hindu ever took oath of Vedas that he will kill people in the name of Eeshvar? But terrorists use Quran for the same!

2. When a Muslim women wear hijab,then she is oppressed,but when a NUN is doing same then she is practicing faith

This is your internal matter as Islam and Christianity have come from the same root, Abraham! The only difference is that Christians are the descendants of Abrahm and his wife whereas Muslims are descendant of Abraham and his slave!

3. If there is Fatwa Against anyone,whole world will know….but When the fatwa about No Terrorism in Islam comes…no one share !

This is the problem! There are Fatwas about terrorism but not against terrorists!

25th Mar, 2010: In what could be a momentous step for the AP government, the Supreme Court has ordered a stay on the AP High Court’s appeal in the matter of Muslim reservations. This effectively means it has given a green signal to the proposed law on 4% reservation for Muslim OBCs in education institutions and jobs.

The quota will be applicable to 14 of the communities that were identified by the state government. Some communities that have been excluded are the Khans, Syeds, Pathans and Mughals.

The High Court had, earlier, termed a separate quota for Muslims as unsustainable and unconstitutional, as 5 judges out of a 7-member panel ruled against a Congress government act proposing the quota. One of its arguments was that the law would cause people to convert to Islam just to avail themselves of the quota’s benefits.

MIM leader Asaduddin Owaisi rubbished the argument, saying that it wasn’t enough for a person to convert to Islam to get benefited – he must also belong to one of the identified communities as well. He welcomed the Supreme Court’s decision, saying it will benefit 85% of Muslims in Andhra Pradesh.

The matter hasn’t been closed, though. A constitutional panel will hear the case on 12 August 2010, when it is set to come up for a final hearing.

dear agniveer i dont think any muslim will ever change his views about people from other faiths and relligions . we innocent hindus and christians are getting strangulated with our political ,moral ,relligious and conscious correctness.

we as hindus grew up never hearing our parents saying anything bad about the other relligions . but in muslims they are made aware of the wrong path of the other faiths ,with the instructions that in this lifetime try to bring at least one non believer to the right path of allah.

how can we expect that this deep conditioning to change . in these times now we witness seminars cleverly named peace and brotherhood in which the muslims like zakir naik have one mission .to prove that hinduism ,christianity etc is wrong .

he clearly mentions that all children are born as muslims and are then misled by the parents ,so if a non believer adopts islam ,he is not converting …he is reverting

if you and me held such peace seminars in any muslim nation we will be slaughtered halal the very same moment .

zakir is now busy in the middle of mumbai , what are the hindus and christians doing . who has given him the right to critisize our religions . he can do that in his muslim country . but here ?

YESTERDAY the whole country saw the REAL FACE OF ISLAM when SHAHI IMAM OF JAMA MASJID OPENLY ABUSED AND THREATENED TO KILL A JOURNALIST IN FRONT OF WHOLE MEDIA. He later on with his 25-30 GOONDAS hit him outside the press conference hall. IF SHAHI IMAM is like this how will be the common mullah and his followers will be like.

You can afford anything starting from blowing hundreds of lives in bomb blasts to keeping sex slaves, but we are talking about humans here, not terrorists. Remember that.

And when you can afford Muhammad who used to play with private parts of his child wife Aisha and used to fondle his wives during their menses, used to be found with his wife’s slave in bed and when caught, used to defend himself by saying that it was Allah’s will, what is the problem in accepting Nityanand as your new prophet? After all he has all qualities similar to your prophet!

king I am glad that whatever I read, its not any innovative techniques, in the name of hadiths, of raping the women of enemy, fondling women in their menses and marrying children of 6 etc as mentioned in Sahih Hadith!

oh so shahi iman is good and some hindu baba is wong? Well, I too go sleeping with lots of muslim women, I can take video, and if I had money have an army of 25-30 goondas like shahi imam and spread violence, will it be good? Cocktail of both?

RigVeda mentions numerous gods (devataas). When it mentions Agni, we feel that Agni is the supreme deity and no other is equal to Agni. But when we read about Indra, we feel Indra is the supreme and no one is comparable to Indra[3]. In total, there are 33 gods that are divided into 3 categories; 11 of the heavens, 11 of earth and 11 of water. Later these 33 gods increase in number and become 330 million[4].

The whole 9th Mandal (Book) of RigVeda has ended with praising the Soma Juice (Soma ras). The Soma god (Devataa) is on the same level as Agni. There has been a dispute concerning this Soma Juice between traditional sanskrit scholars and Swami Dayanand. Some say it is the name of wine, some consider is as bhang, a preparation from the leaves and flowers (buds) of the female cannabis plant. Swami Dayanand and his followers say that Soma was a plant used to make an energizing drink but surprisingly it has become extinct and we cannot find it anywhere today. This implies that an entire Mandal (Book) of RigVeda has become useless.

You have not read correctly or not interpreted well the meaning of Eshwar and Devata in the Vedas. Ved tells us to worship only one shapeless, supreme God. Read the7th chapter of Satyarth Prakash for more clarity or Rigved Adi Bhasyabhoomika by Swami Dayanand Saraswati. After careful reading only you can put the comments. Your concept given here is totally wrong.

@Islam is great Well Brother, first of all, please visit http://agniveer.com/2623/islam-will-not-be-a-threat-if/ and give your views on the ten points given there. Its necessary to differentiate with good Muslims and fanatic supporters of terrorist Zakir Naik. Make your stand clear there and then we can continue with your discussion.

BTW, “Som” in Sanskrit means “joyful”, it can be your mother, father, friend, or any other thing which makes you feel happiness. Further discussion would require your clear views on the above link.

The whole 9th Mandal (Book) of RigVeda has ended with praising the Soma Juice (Soma ras). The Soma god (Devataa) is on the same level as Agni. There has been a dispute concerning this Soma Juice between traditional sanskrit scholars and Swami Dayanand. Some say it is the name of wine, some consider is as bhang, a preparation from the leaves and flowers (buds) of the female cannabis plant. Swami Dayanand and his followers say that Soma was a plant used to make an energizing drink but surprisingly it has become extinct and we cannot find it anywhere today. This implies that an entire Mandal (Book) of RigVeda has become useless. Thus Vedas is not eternal

@who thinks Islam is great First of all, please visit http://agniveer.com/2623/islam-will-not-be-a-threat-if/ and give your views on the ten points given there. Its necessary to differentiate with good Muslims and fanatic supporters of terrorist Zakir Naik. Make your stand clear there and then we can continue with your discussion.

BTW, “Som” in Sanskrit means “joyful”, it can be your mother, father, friend, or any other thing which makes you feel happiness. Further discussion would require your clear views on the above link.

Can you provide me where did Swami Dayanand write that Soma means some kind of juice only?

Lets talk of the eternity of Quran now! Muhammad died 1400 years ago, so all the Quran which was revealed to him should be discarded by your logic. If not, then at least those verse which have Muhammad’s name should be useless. All those verses which talk of Muhammad’s family matters, special status given to him in the matters of marriage etc are useless. Similarly all Ahadith which are related to his life are useless. And most importantly, the prayers, in which you Shareek Muhammad along with Laasharik Allah are useless.

Thus Quran is not eternal and the prayers, Quran, and Ahadith are useless.

Namaste Arya bandhu.. U r absolutely right in what u said.. They are saying Soma Ras means Wine.. but we have a word Madira for that.. any ways.. according to them Soma Ras means Juice of Soma.. but then Soma is also used to refer to Moon… so Soma Ras could also mean “Juice of the Moon”!!.. strange!!… and “Som Vaar”.. ie Monday.. means a day of wine.. Now we also have “Navras” ie the 9 emotions.. But Ras means juice and Nav means 9 so Navras should mean 9 juices!! or may be Juice of Number 9!!… Nav also Means New.. as in “Nav varsh ki shubhkamnaayein”.. so Navras could also mean “New Juice”.. Now the word Ras can also mean “Interest”.. as it is often said in Hindi “Muje usme Ras nahi hai” ie m not interested in it.. so again the meaning changes Soma Ras could mean “Interest in the Moon”.. Actually the meaning of the word depends upon what CONTEXT it is referred to.. u cant quote out of context.. What our brother is doing is, he is showing the Verses totally out of context.. and the other major mistake he makes is that he Shows Speculations as Evidence.. he himself says ” There has been a dispute concerning this Soma Juice between traditional sanskrit scholars and Swami Dayanand. Some say it is the name of wine, some consider is as bhang, a preparation from the leaves and flowers (buds) of the female cannabis plant. Swami Dayanand and his followers say that Soma was a plant used to make an energizing drink but surprisingly it has become extinct and we cannot find it anywhere today. ” so he is presenting disputes and speculations by lesser sanskrit scholars as evidence… if the Translations are wrong we are ready to Refute it and provide correct translation… but will they Refute translations of “Sahih International”.. I can quote from Quran.com. if u like..Some consider this some consider that… thats poor study… that means he goes on by Hearsay.. then suddenly devata becomes God according to him…. and the 3rd and the WORST thing.. commenting without reading the whole thing!

1. Obliously Kafirs will go to hell. Why did they refuse ALLAH SWT? 2. oBLIOUSLY mUSLIMS WILL GET JANNAT. BECAUSE THEY SURRENDERED TO allah swt. 3. Regarding Women ALLAH knows the best. ask him in judgement day. 4.jijya is a tax. it must be paid. 5.I couldnt understand the 5th question.

This flag bearer of great Islam is yet another terrorist like most of others questioning this site. Let the true Muslims (if true Islam means peace) come forward and condemn this terrorist “Islam is Great” for his terrorist and intolerant views.

What is there to be answered? He is very adamantly propounding the rigid diktats of your prophet? And people with even an iota of self-respect will make sure that these “soldiers” do not make much headway in their sinister endeavor?

Vajra, why are you attacking islam is great. because he told what you dont want to listen? your man made concept has no clue to what divine allah has decided. be a muslim before youe death or you will burn in hell forever.

yes, you are right that islam is great. Islam is great for making fools out of everything. We will never burn in hell because there is no such thing as hell. Enough of these bedtime stories, go recite these stories to your little kids so they can quickly fall asleep. It is sad you people are taking these bedtime childish stories of heaven hell seriously. We are attacking islam, so we can wake up every muslim telling them that their childhood has passed away, so enough of believing in bedtime stories like heaven hell angels. Now, it is time to wake up and join the reality where Mohammads miracles are discarded as stupidity and where we should all love one another without creating discrimination. I advise the same for you brother, come, embrace Vedic Dharma and worship the real Allah and wake up from this stupidity of heaven hell. Oh yeah, since there is no such thing as heaven, this means you will NOT get 72 virgins!!!

Forward and backward by their wondrous power move these two youths (sun and moon), disporting, round the ocean. One views all living things, and thou, the other, art born again arranging times and seasons.

@slave of allah. Islam is man made religion by some maniac called mohammed bin abdullah self appointed prophet of satan also known as allah. Hnduism on the other hand is a god made religion revealed by krishna in kurukshetra. Your man made cult of mohemmadanism has no concept of divine hinduism.

Convert to hinduism, before your death or you will burn in hell forever.

I comment on the Ignorant, Who say when they meet those who believe, they say: “We believe,” but when they are alone with their Shayâtin (devils – polytheists, hypocrites, etc.), they say: “Truly, we are with you; verily, we were but mocking.” I had gone to the various article of your website,The language u people r using about Islam r so Derogative and Filthy that it is a shame to answer.But look Br.Like SSS are so beautifully replying without Hurting anybody sentiments that is what Islam teaches,That there is no Compulsion in Religion, Truth always Prevails.

@Wajid Still waiting for your response on the article you are commenting! BTW, Brother SSS is not a Muslim, he has accepted that. He does not believe Muhammad to be final messenger and Quran to be unaltered!

If there is no compulsion in religion as per Islam, why is there compulsion for non Muslims to go to hell? Why cant a Muslim leave Islam and preach his new religion? Why should he be killed as declared by Zakir Naik?

Please read Quran with Understanding u will get all ur answer and u will be on True Path.Don’t Judge Islam on What zakir or Shakir or XYZ is saying.You have to Judge Islam on what Quran is Saying. Please don’t read the Text but the Context.Context is what is above and below. I Hope u understand.

Wajid, Brother Arya simply is asking you to opine on the above points given in the article and like a true escapist, you are running away. This shows the hypocracy behind the present version of Islam. I completely fail to understand what prohibits the followers of muhammad(PBUH) to condemn terrorists lyk zakir naik andequality for all human being.

Don’t go by what the people say. Glorious Quran chapter no. 2 verse no.109 “Out of sheer envy many people o fthe book woiuld be glad to turn you back into unbelievers after you have become believers even though the truth has become clear to them. Neverthless, forgive and be indulgent towards them until Allah brings forth his decision.”

17 SU 12 “JO MANUSHYA VEDO KI SARVOPLARI AGYAO KA ULLANGHAN KARE USE SHOORVEER PURUSH YOGYA DAND DE. WO DURACHARI PARMESHWAR KE NYAY VYAVASTHA SE BHI KUSHT BHOGTA HAIN. Uchit dund can be anything. it can be death penalty as well. Just go and find out what is the penalty fo not following the vedas and then discuss.

do you seriously don’t know or you’re hiding the fact like a typical lying Islamic apologist.that Quran2:109 has been abrogated(cancelled/substituted) by the OBVIOUSLY VIOLENT Sura At-Tawba Verse 29

“Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allâh, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allâh and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islâm) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued”

Lying wont help Tanveer bro..you are discussing with a group which has ex-muslims too

The Quran is self-contradictory and unfortunately to remove this contradiction the God of Quran asks the followers to replace peaceful verses with violent ones !

as far as Vedas are concerned …your comparing Isam and Vedas on apostasy is more foolish than preposterous…Ever heard of a kangaroo court killing an apaostate from Vedas ? ..whom are you kidding bro ?

@Tanveer So what should we do? This terrorist Zakir is threatening the apostates in public and says that only his religion is worth preaching and all others should not have any right to preach in Islamic countries. Do you think that we should keep quite because its not written in your book? Unfortunately it is written and Brother Indian Agnostic has given you the proof. Now you say that whatever Zakir has said, its just an opinion! So why dont you keep quite on Agniveer, who is also giving his opinion? Has Agniveer ever said that who does not believe in him or converts should be killed? But Zakir says it openly and still you find Agniveer’s work objectionable and Zakir’s work as “an opinion” on which we dont have any right to speak.

I am still waiting for the day when you will condemn this terrorist Zakir Naik in a harsher tone than you condemned Agniveer. And of course for the day when you will leave this foreign barbaric cult and come back to your ancestral home, The Vedas.

All I am asking is who is Allah? More precisely from which God, spirit is delivering the message. Muslims say Allah is the Arabic word for God. I am saying that Allah as a god and deity was existent in pre-Islamic Arabia or Mecca. He was one of the 360 idols in Kaa’ba.

Koran itself offers lot of evidence in this direction; if you read Sira from Ibn Ishaq or Tabari you will find the proof that pagans were also worshiping God named Allah.

The word ilah is the one which means God in Arabic.

The truth is your Mohammad himself has no idea in the beginning. That is precisely we do not see Allah mentioned in the first 17 Chapters, when Chapters are arranged in chronological order. Then the we come across is Ar-Rehman.

Your Mohammad took out a pagan deity and pagan cultures (like fasting, circumventing Kaa’ba 7 times, running between hills, making pilgrimage to Hajj and shaving of head; all these are pagan customs and rituals incorporated in to Islam) and then he gave the color of Abrahamic theology.

There is nothing original in Islam except calls for rape and murder; it is a mixture of pagan heathenism and Abrahamic religions.

Many religions try to explain the purpose of life and creation; your Allah says that he created men and jinn solely for the purpose of serving him, worshiping him and praising him. Then he says that the life on this earth is not important, it is the life in hereafter that is very imp.

In hereafter i.e. paradise all men get houris and young boys for their sexual pleasures. What do women get in paradise? Women get their husbands. What if a woman died with out getting married?

Why is Islam so materialistic? If you have read about how Koran describes paradise you will understand it.

I rather like to say that nature has provided brain, Muslims should use it.

All I asked is did Pagans worship Allah before or not? What is the difference between ilah and Allah? Is Allah a name or Arabic word for God? This is the basis of your religion and you can not answer.

You are simply asking me to read Koran. I am asking you this because I read Koran. There is very little I do not about Koran and Islam. I am not saying I am a scholar; but can you answer the questions I asked?

What is your problem? Are you trying to say that the customs and rituals, performed by Muslims these days, did not exist before Mohammad?

You have not answered any thing? I repeat: Which God was reveling verses to Mohammad; it means who is Allah?

Have you heard this ‘laa ilaha ill allaah’?

Muslims can not answer this basic question because it gives an insight in to Islam and its foundation i.e. founder Prophet Mohammad something Muslims love to conceal.

Is Allah the same Abrahamic God? The name of Abrahamic God is Yahweh. Muslims scholars write that Yahweh and Allah are same with out explaining any thing like SSS is writing here.

When one tries to find the answer to this name of Allah, one will unearth whole lot of info. about Mohammad.

When one reads Koran from Yusuf Ali or Pickthall, they will not find these kind of Islamic riddles. But one car read following verses from Hilali’s Noble Koran and see what they say: 3:62, 5:73, 52:43, 5:4, 21:107-108, 20:14, 20:97 and 59:92.

You contradicted your self with your replies ultimately showing what Islam is about.

You say that Allah means God; ilah means Gods and then you say pagans worshiped the deity with a name Allah, this is true, and this Allah reveled Koran to Mohammad.

Don’t you see the contradiction?

The best evidence comes from Koran itself; saying ilah means God. Check the following verses:

He is Allâh, the Creator, the Inventor of all things, the Bestower of forms. To Him belong the Best Names . All that is in the heavens and the earth glorify Him. And He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise. (59:92) (Hilali’s Noble Koran)

This is good; no problem.

…….. And look at your ilâh (god), to which you have been devoted. We will certainly burn it, and scatter its particles in the sea.” (20:97) (Hilali)

I do not think there can be any more confusion on what ilah means. We see more, nevertheless.

“Verily! I am Allâh! Lâ ilâha illa Ana (none has the right to be worshipped but I), so worship Me, and perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât) for My Remembrance. (20:14) (Hilali)

Now look at how others, like Yusuf Ali, Pickthall and Shakir, translate the same verse:

Lo! I, even I, am Allah, There is no Allah save Me. So serve Me and establish worship for My remembrance. (20:14) (Pickthall)

“Verily, I am Allah: There is no god but I: So serve thou Me (only), and establish regular prayer for celebrating My praise. (20:14) (Yusuf Ali)

Notice any thing. When in the place of ilah others use simply God because they wanted to cover up this basic fault. See more of these verses. Same inconsistency.

Or have they an ilâh (a god) other than Allâh? Glorified be Allâh from all that they ascribe as partners (to Him) (52:43) (Hilali)

Or have they a god other than Allah? Exalted is Allah far above the things they associate with Him! (52:43) (Yusuf Ali)

Say (O Muhammad SAW): “It is revealed to me that your Ilâh (God) is only one Ilâh (God – Allâh). Will you then submit to His Will (become Muslims and stop worshipping others besides Allâh)?” (21:108) (Hilali)

Say: “What has come to me by inspiration is that your Allah is One Allah: will ye therefore bow to His Will (in Islam)?” (21:108) (Yusuf Ali)

Verily! This is the true narrative [about the story of ‘Iesa (Jesus)], and, Lâ ilâha ill-Allâh (none has the right to be worshipped but Allâh, the One and the Only True God, Who has neither a wife nor a son). And indeed, Allâh is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise. (3:62) (Hilali)

Lo! This verily is the true narrative. There is no Allah save Allah, and lo! Allah, He verily is, is the Mighty, the Wise. (3:62) (Pickthall)

What do you think, SSS. Brain is still intact and functioning.

Ilah means God; not Gods like you say.

Allah is the name of God which your scholars do not admit to. There is reason behind this Allah. I will write later.

When Mohammad received the first revelation, he was scared that he was possessed by demon. Khadija, his first wife consoles him like this. (Read this Hadith):

Vol. 1, Book 1, # 3 (Sahih Bukhari)………. Khadija replied, “Never! By Allah, Allah will never disgrace you. You keep good relations with your Kith and kin, help the poor and the destitute, serve your guests generously and assist the deserving calamity-afflicted ones.” ………

What is this. Tradition tells 96 is the first surah and we do not see the name of Allah there. In fact for first 17 chapters, we do not see any name at all. Then Ar-Rahman (Not Al-Rahman, like you said) is mentioned. But this Hadith clearly shows that Khadija has identified the spirit and God too.

How did Khadija mention Allah when first 17 suras do not say anything about God?

The truth is bitter but nevertheless it is 100% truth.

To understand ocean you have to understand drops too, my boy. It is drops that make up ocean.

“You say that Allah means God; ilah means Gods and then you say pagans worshiped the deity with a name Allah, this is true, and this Allah reveled Koran to Mohammad.”

I don’t know…what’s the contradiction here…

I have clearly explained you that…Pagans worshipped Allah as we know GOD as the super power…all the other gods collectively called as “ilah”…which means Gods…

I gave the example also…with the GOD mentioned in Vedas…and the Gods in other scriptures…I don’t know…if you are not able to understand still…GOD has to help you in that case…!!!

“Look at your ilah” means “look at the God you worship” — this word points to everyone…means look at your God…whatever it may be….either it could be an idol…or a stone…or a tree…hence I said..”ilah means gods…” — I think you can understand by this…!!!

“There is no way that Allah is worthy of worshiping for what he says in Koran.” — Which Quranic verse is not worthy enough…pls mention…let me clarify…!!!

Brother Proud to be a Kafir He is interested in the blood identity so much because he is confused about himself, whether his father was Indian or Arab. Arab invaders looted and raped his ancestors centuries back, but he is still in confusion that if his father was Arab then why he is not in Arab and if his father was Indian, why he looks to Arab always when asked about his father.

SSS BTW, PANDIT Mahendra Pal Arya, one of the scholars of Agniveer and a Brahmin now, was a Muslim and Imaam of Masjid some 25 years back! So you see, you can also become Brahmin if you follow Vedas!

Dumber SSS I gave the example of Imam just to let you know that everyone can become Brahmin irrespective of his/her birth based conditions like religion, gender etc.

Yes I have issues with Quran, start clarifying. There are more than 40 articles which I came across on this amazing site and any Muslim friend could not refute even a single logic or verse given in these 40+ articles. Start giving your clarification, give counter logic to each of their logic and prove them wrong. So far the only logic by you, i.e. “GOD knows everything…!!! Everyone knows a drop and not an ocean…!!!” can appeal to only Madarsa minds but not intellectuals, remember that.

Brother Indian Agnostic He has been quite successful in wasting our time, which was the only way for his terrorist boss Zakir Naik to stop us in exposing him and his Saudi masters. I request Agniveer admin to not allow this terrorist supporter SSS comment anywhere in the site so that he cant further waste our time. Just look at him, how eagerly he is trying to argue with us but has not said even a single word against terrorist Zakir Naik who openly justifies apostate killing etc.

@ Indian Agnostic Allah was one of the Gods of Mecca …whose servant was Muhammad’s pagan dad Abd-Allah (Abdullah). Allah was NOT one of the gods of Mecca. He was recognized by the pagan Arabs as the Supreme deity, but in addition to this they had several sub-deities like Al Lat, Al Uzza etc. whom they worshipped besides Allah. If you ask any Hindu, he would say God is one. But then you know Hinduism has several sub-gods with each one following his own (saivites, vaishnavites). Additionally they have a god for each function of nature like sun-god, moon-god, rain god, death-god (called devas) etc. These gods have a king called Indra who is also not the supreme god. Indra is a grade lower than tri-murti viz Brahmma, Vishnu & Shiva. Of this tri-murti, Shiva is considered to be the most powerful (as all other gods resort to him as their final protector in their wars with various asuras). The pagan Arabs had a similar arrangement which Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) asked them to shun & worship only The One True Almighty God-Allah Hope this clarifies.

When Abu Talib fell ill, and the Quraish chiefs knew that his end was near, they held consultations and decided to approach the old chief with the request that he should solve the dispute between them and his nephew. For they feared that if Abu Talib died and then they subjected Muhammad (upon whom be Allah’s peace) to a harsh treatment, after his death, the Arabs would taunt them, saying, “They were afraid of the old chief as long as he lived now that he is dead they have started maltreating his nephew.” At least 25 of the Quraish chiefs including Abu Jahl, Abu Sufyan, Umayyah bin Khalaf, As bin Wa’il, Aswad bin al-Muttalib, ‘Uqbah bin Abi Mu’ait, Utbah and Shaibah went to Abu Talib. First, they put before him their complaints against the Holy Prophet as usual, then said, “We have come to present before you a just request and it is this : let your nephew leave us to our religion, and we shall leave him to his. He may worship whomever he may please: we shall not stand in his way in this matter; but he should not condemn our gods, and should not try to force us to give them up. Please tell him to make terms with us on this condition”. Abu Talib called the Holy Prophet and said, “Dear nephew, these people of your tribe have come to me with a request. They want you to agree with them on a just matter so as to put an end to your dispute with them.” Then he told him about the request of the chiefs of the Quraish. The Holy Prophet replied, “Dear uncle: I shall request them to agree upon a thing which, if they accept, will enable them to conquer the whole of Arabia and subject the non-Arab world to their domination. “Hearing this the people were first confounded; they did not know how they should turn down such a proposal. Then, after they had considered the matter, they replied: “You speak of one word: we are prepared to repeat ten others like it, but please tell us what it is.” The Holy Prophet said: La ilaha ill-Allah. At this they got up all together and left the place saying what Allah has narrated in the initial part of this Surah”

1) This shows that the Arab chiefs wanted Mohammed not to insult their Gods 2)Mohammed instead told them that they would be able to conquer non-muslims if they followed his new religion of ‘peace’ !!!! 3)The chiefs were not religious bigots and left the violent and greedy truce option thrown by mohammad

the more you read the history of Islam , the more you see the irony of history ..it teaches us that barbarians have time and again destroyed a peace loving people who had humanity inside them ..the only thing lacking in the Arab chiefs was that they never understood that INTOLERANCE MUST NOT TO TOLERATED

I have learned that lesson from history and I would oppose an intolerant doctrine like Islam wherever i find an audience for the same ..i don’t want history to repeat itself

So who are they…Hindus, Jains ah..Jews, i guess. You call them kaffir, they(taliban) call you kaffir. its the old blame game again. Why didn’t you people raised your voices to built Bahamian buddhas again?when taliban were thrown out of afghanistan. You people do not want to stop hatred amongs other faith and expect others to not say a thing against you.

1) Not a single muslim denounces zakir naik for his filthy comment on killing apostates(no compulsion in religion..eh? )

2) Look at Anjem Choudhary in the next video ..such a disgusting burden on the west who lives on wlefare funds of the british and now instigates muslims to rid the west of the kufaar ..still no muslim bro has spoken a word against this rotten soul

I think all non-,muslims must read the comments section of this article ..specially the pseudo secular idiots who don’t realize the evils of political Islam…they are after your lands,property and lives ..wake up!

Can Koran be a word of God? Well, since I do not believe in religion, I have to say that it can not even be a word of sane man. To call this manual of hate and illogical book divine, it is an insult to humanity.

If I believe in God (religion), I will say that Koran is a word from Satan.

Nothing is clear in Koran. As you explore, you will find many contradictions (holes) in the claims of Islam.

Take the word Allah. Some one said Allah is the Arabic word for God and it is not a name of God; this is lying. Because Arabic has this word ‘ilah’ for God. Muslim scholars know this. Another thing the Pagans were equally worshiping a God named Allah i.e. Allah is one of many deities in Kaa’ba. You can read any biography and you will find it. Koran itself confirms this.

Moreover, Islam is not a religion at all. It can not even be reformed.

Quran [2:255] “GOD! There is no deity except He, the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists. Neither slumber, nor sleep overtake Him. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on earth. Who is he that can intercede with Him except with His Permission? He knows what happens to them (His creatures) in this world, and what will happen to them in the Hereafter . And they will never compass anything of His Knowledge except that which He wills. His throne extends over the heavens and the earth, and He feels no fatigue in guarding and preserving them. And He is the Most High, the Most Great.”

Quran [112: 1-4] “Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He does not beget, nor is He begotten; And there is none comparable to Him.”

Holy texts have no contradictions…based on the people’s karma…Vedas came to world and they made the lives of people a standard one… Similarly based on the karma of human beings, so many holy texts came into the world…to make the lives of people more standard… Hence Quran is also a holy text which was brought to the world based on people’s karma…to bring standards to society… Please read Quran and understand the concept…if you want to accept it…accept it…else don’t spread hatred…!!!

@SSS : when you say “Us” do you mean everyone or some one in specific..does everyone has the same limitation depending on god’s will? or there is an upper or lower bound on the knowledge..? and if yes what is the cirteria?

@SSS : Now if i answer that question for you (based on the knowledge of Veda) then am in GOD? and how does one(a born human) draw a line between what man knows and what he may not know without exploring his/her own limits?

@SSS : you missed the point.. That the difference being intelligence and being a thinker (knowledge seeker).. People who are only intelligent actually may be really dumb (as u are) coz they are too good at defending what they believe in by making up arguments out the data available. Rather than accepting and learning from a higher source they cling on to something that has no goal. I can’t believe that how the book has exploited the weakest link of human identity (insecurity and fear of the unknown future). Remove the concept of a fruitful after life and fear of grave punishments, not even a single practicing Muslim will care about Islam or the so call all merciful. Can’t people see that … the purpose of life is to be fearless (inside) that’s what Veda teaches. You keep of parroting everyone knows a drop not the Ocean, but do you know what it even means .. I would suggest you give up the dogmas of some books and approach the knowledge with an open mind…

Not I am 100% sure that Mr SSS has deep Indian roots with Sanatani Blood.

Islam’s Ghazi concept in Kuran/Hadith prompted cruel Ghazis to go on rampage. Please read Babarnama, Jehangirnama and Humayunama in whatsoever language. You would get to know that your ancestors have been forcibly converted. Same goes to Mr Zakir Naik, who is by blood Sanatan Dharmi (Ancestors were converted). Naiks are Maharastrians, and some of them were converted by Aurangzeb (By sword).

SSS should be given some time to explore himself and not ISLAM or Vedanta. Once he explores himself, then ask him to explore his community members and then comes the book. He seems to have a soft-heart as his Indian genes are suppressing the devil that is there in most of the orthodox and conservative people. There are some dirty scraps who would always consider Vedas as Books, no matter if it has no relation with any Religion. Similarly, they want their book to be considered as Holy Quran where GOD wrote from his hands and no-human beings. If a human being has written this book then please accept that the book was written by the human being, narrated by the human being. Vedas were written by Expert socialties/sanyasis/reformers/teachers and for the humankind. The words written in Vedas have been narrated by humans, written by humans. Since, these words are for the betterment of the whole mankind, we treat the vedas themselves as Institution of GOD.

So Vedas have not been written by GOD Unlike Quran ( ??? ).

Vedas are the gift of the GOD to the whole earth, where GOD poured words in the mouth of orator to do justice with everything. Vedas are Social-Science (Not the Communal/Tribal Science)

I am happy that SSS is going through all the comments and hope to see him in true Indian as well as Sanatani Blood.

Vedas are the earlier versions of holy text which came from GOD for standardizing the human society…I accepted that it standardized…and so many holy texts came…they also propagated the truth and standardized the lives of the society… Hence Quran also came…which standardized the human lives…which I came to know from the lives of Mohammed and his companions…!!!

So if I am following Quran…it means I am also following Vedas and other holy texts…!!!

Please be open and learn the holy texts…and come to a conclusion to decide which one to follow…

If you still find issues in following Quran…just do an analysis…if u want to accept it…accept it..else leave it and follow Vedas and believe in one GOD…that would be sufficient…!!!

GOD knows better than us…!!! Everyone knows a drop and not an ocean…!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂

OOokay. So you consider both Vedas and Quran to be books of God. And you say that there can’t be contradiction between books of God.

That’s a very grotesque comment. How? Because of the million contradictions between Vedas and Quran.

Muslims are taught to never accept other religions. To kill the ones who associate equal individual to Allah. In Vedas, you are taught to love only one God, but to accept those who worship God in different ways, because you are not a sinner on how you pray (what can however be condemmed are sacrifice rituals that kill humans/animals in the name of God).

That’s one contradiction.

On this site, I’ve seen more and more contradictions between Quran and Vedas.

I’ve even seen contradictions in the Quran only on (his site of course, but also in) multiple muslim sites (because there’s different sects with different Qurans with different interpretations).

If one goes by your logic: the Quran is no words of God. So leave Quran.

SSS BROTHER the first verse you gave to us of AYAT AL KURSI (VERSE OF THE THRONE) Quran [2:255] itself shows contradiction because it make Allah as limited being sitting in his throne and boasting about his self so yourself showed the contradiction in Koran.

I am not saying it…the same verse itself says that… and moreover when you are quoting a verse…pls paste the whole verse so that it would be understandable…!!!

Quran [3:7] He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but NO ONE KNOWS ITS HIDDEN MEANINGS except GOD. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: “We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:” and NONE will grasp the Message EXCEPT MEN OF UNDERSTANDING.

So…whatever you says…its not correct…since GOD knows the exact meaning…and only men of understanding will get the message…

GOD knows much better than us…!!! Everyone knows a drop and not an ocean…!!! 🙂

Most of the Quran is Literal and that is why muslims claim that all their practical problems have been covered in the quran in a literal sense. Verse 3:& very clearly states that “In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book” ..and anybody who messes with their meaning is a PERVERT.

NOW YOU”LL ASK ME AS TO WHICH VERSES ARE ALLEGORICAL !! ..HERE THEY ARE

Ta Seen Meem.[Al Quran ; 28:1]

Ta Seen, [Al Quran ; 27:1]

Ta Seen Meem [Al Quran ; 26:1]

Ta Ha. [Al Quran ; 20:1]

Kaf Ha Ya Ein Sad. [Al Quran ; 19:1]

Alif Lam Ra. [Al Quran ; 15:1]

Alif Lam Ra. [Al Quran ; 14:1]

Alif, Lam, Mim, Ra. [Al Quran ; 13:1]

Alif Lam Ra.[Al Quran ; 12:1]

Alif Lam Ra.[Al Quran ; 11:1]

Alif Lam Ra.[Al Quran ; 10:1]

Alif Lam Meem Sad.[Al Quran ; 7:1]

Alif Lam Meem.[Al Quran ; 3:1]

Alif Lam Meem.[Al Quran ; 2:1]

So my friend apart from such ambiguous verses along with the bismi allah ..most verses of the quran are literal

Most of the Quran is Literal and that is why muslims claim that all their practical problems have been covered in the quran in a literal sense. Verse 3:& very clearly states that “In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book” ..and anybody who messes with their meaning is a PERVERT.

NOW YOU”LL ASK ME AS TO WHICH VERSES ARE ALLEGORICAL !! ..HERE THEY ARE

Ta Seen Meem.[Al Quran ; 28:1]

Ta Seen, [Al Quran ; 27:1]

Ta Seen Meem [Al Quran ; 26:1]

Ta Ha. [Al Quran ; 20:1]

Kaf Ha Ya Ein Sad. [Al Quran ; 19:1]

Alif Lam Ra. [Al Quran ; 15:1]

Alif Lam Ra. [Al Quran ; 14:1]

Alif, Lam, Mim, Ra. [Al Quran ; 13:1]

Alif Lam Ra.[Al Quran ; 12:1]

Alif Lam Ra.[Al Quran ; 11:1]

Alif Lam Ra.[Al Quran ; 10:1]

Alif Lam Meem Sad.[Al Quran ; 7:1]

Alif Lam Meem.[Al Quran ; 3:1]

Alif Lam Meem.[Al Quran ; 2:1]

So my friend apart from such ambiguous verses along with the bismi allah ..most verses of the quran are literal

Quran [3:7] He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but NO ONE KNOWS ITS HIDDEN MEANINGS except GOD. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: “We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:” and NONE will grasp the Message EXCEPT MEN OF UNDERSTANDING.

It says clearly…who will get the message…!!!

GOD knows much better than us…!!! Everyone knows a drop and not an ocean…!!! 🙂

Nice Joke Hi-SSS Brother you yourself worship Mahabrahmin Ravana and tell us we are Brahmins that shows your hypocrisy that is in your blood. [img]http://Satyagni.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/smiley.jpeg[/img]

And to Allah belongs the east and the west. So wherever you [might] turn, there is the Face of Allah . Indeed, Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing.

Muhsin Khan:-

And to Allah belong the east and the west, so wherever you turn yourselves or your faces there is the Face of Allah (and He is High above, over His Throne). Surely! Allah is All-Sufficient for His creatures’ needs, All-Knowing. Sourcehttp://quran.com/2/115 #http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/allah_location.htm #

Hilali-Khan:-

And to Allah belong the east and the west, so wherever you turn yourselves or your faces there is the Face of Allah (and He is High above, over His Throne)…

Sher Ali

To ALLAH belongs the East and the West; so whithersoever you turn, there will be the face of ALLAH …

{And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah. BUT IF THEY CEASE, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.} [Quran, 2: 193].

Does that verse say that everyone MUST submit to Allah, WILLINGLY OR NOT? Read after what is CAPITALIZED in that verse. So, is that not a clear proof that no one is obliged to become Muslim? The verse starts by {fight then UNTIL there is no Tumult or Oppression}. Accordingly, what is the reason for fighting according to the verse above? The obvious answer is Tumult and Oppression. IF the two do not exist, then fighting non-Muslims is Haram. As simple as that, and the end of the verse supports my point {IF THEY CEASE}.

“and there prevail justice and faith in Allah.” – Means, until there is justice and Muslims are free to follow their faith. The historical context of the verses are relevant here.

It does not clarify at all. The context of the hadith is not at all explained.

1) Prophet(pbuh) could have said this in the battlefield. It says that the only way for escape of the non Muslims who are at war with the Muslims is to repent and accept Islam.

2) Fighting does not necessarily mean “war with swords”. The hadith could mean, that even if much oppression is there against Islam, he would strive for propagating the truth till people accept Islam.

3) It has never been the way Prophet(pbuh) spread Islam as is explained here. For eg: when Prophet(pbuh) returned to Mecca successfully with the followers, they could have fought and converted all forcibly. But, instead Prophet(pbuh) granted forgiveness even to his arch enemies. Indeed this great act resulted in many accepting Islam.

That is why you cannot say “Eshwar Allah tero Naam” ..its the foolish duty of the non-muslims to say so …while the Hadit and Quran clearly state that no other religion other than Islam are acceptable 🙁

so what do we have here:

any body who believes in Vishnu, or Christ Jesus(and not isa), or Yawhey or Guru Nanak is an enemy of islam and it would not be accepted of them !!

Before I go on to clarify further, I would like to know what prompts you to believe that you are not convinced of me indulging in Taqiya. Coz, doubting me of lying is a serious insult to me especially when I have discussed on many matters in this site and you know that I am from the mainstream Muslim.

Al-Taqiya is not a matter of faith or a pillar of faith in Islam. Islam is clear against lying. The basic principle for the Muslim is to be honest and truthful, and he should not speak anything but the truth, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“O you who believe! Fear Allaah, and be with those who are true (in words and deeds)” [al-Tawbah 9:119]

And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I urge you to be truthful, for “Truthfulness leads to righteousness and righteousness leads to Paradise. A man will keep speaking the truth and striving to speak the truth until he will be recorded with Allaah as a siddeeq (speaker of the truth). Lying leads to immorality and immorality leads to Hellfire. ” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 5743; Muslim, 2607, from the hadeeth of ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Mas’ood (may Allaah be pleased with him).

Lying is permissible in only three occasions.

Sahih MuslimBook 032, Number 6303:

Humaid b. ‘Abd al-Rahman b. ‘Auf reported that his mother Umm Kulthum daughter of ‘Uqba b. Abu Mu’ait, and she was one amongst the first emigrants who pledged allegiance to Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him), as saying that she heard Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: A liar is not one who tries to bring reconciliation amongst people and speaks good (in order to avert dispute), or he conveys good. Ibn Shihab said he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them).

Hence, only in 3 cases it is permitted : a) war b) Settling disagreements to bring about good between people, especially in war c) Reconciliation between a husband and wife; or simply saying something commendable. I think these cases are in line with the teaching of Sri Krishna as well.

I would like to know your stance on whether you still doubt me of lying or not, as I don’t think there is any point in discussing further as long as you are suspicious.

Sir in short you are saying that a Muslim can lie to friends, family and enemies..i wonder if it leaves out anybody to whom you cannot lie!!?

Unfortunately , any non-muslim according to Quran and Hadit is an enemy indeed 🙁

Quran 9: 29 : “Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”

husband-wife is the smallest (yet the most important) representation of a family ..and Islam allows them to lie to each other to avoid conflict !!

[We have an example of this from the sirat too ..the prophet lied to his wife hafsa that her dad has called for her.When she left the prophet slept with Maria the copt …Hafsa was furious and told this to the other wives of the prophet..They rebelled against him. Fortunately for the prophet , Allah came to intervene and the verse threatening the wives of Allah was revealed [the one where Allah says that the prophet can have better wives than them]

Do you seriously believe that this kind of lying is GOOD ? is lying GOOD at all in the first place between two people bound by the most sacrosanct relationship?..If a prophet can exploit this sanction how can lesser mortals like you and me not fall on the wring side with this??

The other one is about lying to the enemy ..the word ‘enemy’ is the operative word here

In Islam anybody who critiques or disagrees with the prophet or Islam is an enemy ..that puts every non-muslim in the ‘enemy category

again from the hadit..the prophet ordered his men to kill a 90 year old jewish poet Kab .they asked if they could lie ..and the prophet allowed without any compunction

Taqiyya was mostly exercised by the shias in the earlier times to prevent any persecution.But in todays time it is a tool in the hands of dawagandists and apologetic muslims who do not want to share the actual theology of Islam.

the very fact that most Muslims & non-Muslims don;t know that Islam means ‘surrender’ and NOT peace is a result of the Taqiyya brigades campaigns

Which seera and which verse are you talking about. ? Seeras have to be verified against authentic sources. It you are referring to verses 66 [1-5], it refers to Aysha and Hafsa, and the incident is different.

Since, you are logical and rational, do I need to explain the instances when a husband or wife is allowed to lie for reconciliation??

Lying to an enemy is at times of war. Ka’b incited people to war, and he managed to unite the enemies of the prophet Muhammad to go and fight against him, to kill him and the Muslims.

Ibn Ishaq stated, ” Ka’b b. al-Ashraf was of the Ta’I tribe, of the sub-tribe of Banu Nabhan, though his mother was of Banu al-Nadir. He received news of the deaths of those at Badr after the arrival of Zayd b. Al- Haritha and ?Abd Allah b. Rawaha. He commented, ? By God, if Muhammad has really struck down those people, then better be inside the earth than upon it!”When this enemy of God was sure of this news, he left for Mecca, where he visited al-Muttalib b. Abu Wada’a b.Dubayrat al- Samhi, whose wife was ?Atika, daughter of Abu al- Is b. Ummayya b. ?Abd Shams b. ?Abd Manaf. She accommodated him graciously AND HE BEGAN INSTIGATING AN ATTACK UPON THE MESSENGER OF GOD (SAAS) speaking verses and mourning the deaths of those polytheists killed at Badr

Ka’b was the one who started the trouble, he not only insulted the prophet Muhammad. He went to the prophet’s enemies, and incited them against Muhammad, he obviously incited them to fight and kill the prophet Muhammad. So therefore as we see, Ka’b was not innocent, nor did he just insult the prophet and the Muslims, he instigated violence and murder and was rightly punished.

Just like Ka’b incited people to fight the prophet Muhammad, telling them to kill him and so on. The prophet returned the favor, just like Ka’b told people to fight Muhammad and kill him, the prophet Muhammad told the Muslims who would go fight and kill Ka’b. Had Ka’b directly went and tried to kill the prophet, the prophet would then directly go and kill Ka’b. However so, Ka’b told others to go kill Muhammad and to fight him, after the prophet Muhammad found out, he told the Muslims who would go fight and kill Ka’b.

Coming to our point of Taqiya, I am not at war with Agniveer. Here, we are discussing religion and you very well know that lying about the Prophet(pbuh) is a grave sin.

The Seerah is a collection of narrations about the people and events surrounding the Prophet (SAW) arranged in a chronological order. The amount of rigor put into authenticating and analyzing the chains and narrators of an incident or event that is found in the Seerah is far lower than when a narration is used in the Sunnah or Hadith. Ibn Ishaq, Al-Waqidi, Ibn Sa’d and Al-Tabri all operated outside of all the sciences of Islam and isnaad (Arabic for chain of transmitters). They are more or less historians who just narrate whatever they hear and leave it to the muhadditheen to authenticate them. Ibn Is’haaq’s specialty was seerah therefore he was abandoned by the scholars of hadeeth (such as Bukhari and Muslim) when it came to narrating hadeeth. That his Isnads (chains of transmissions) were defective, ie not ‘iron’ tight by naming all the reporters, which is important because this determines whether the transmitter of the story is trustworthy or not. Ibn Ishaq was not an eye witness to any of the events of Prophet Muhammad’s life. Ibn Ishaq was writing about 150 years after the Prophet’s death so this (Isnad) is very important. In Islamic sciences in order for a report of the Prophet (peace be on him) to be true is if the isnad is solid or not. Ibn Ishaq was condemned by some of our major Islamic scholars like Imam Malik , Ibn Taymiyya etc.

So, the conclusion is that there are lies in Ibn Ishaq’s Seerah (most of them spread by the Jews against Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) ). But, that doesn’t mean the whole book is to be dumped. The ones which are verified by other scholars and those which belong to the mass transmitted category are acceptable.

@MSV Brother, Quran [2:193] says- YUSUF ALI: And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. MUHSIN KHAN:And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allah (Alone). But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)

As per the above verse and many others, the war is on until faith in Allah prevails! And we know that India is still not Darul Islam but Darul Harb. So obviously, our Muslim friends (who think of us as enemies) can lie here as India is yet a battle ground for them. I know you may not consider us as enemies but then you will not be a true Muslim as per many verses of Quran.

Why dont you follow Vedas brother? You need not to believe in any agent of God and remember him along with God during your prayers?

There is no reason for us to doubt on you. However because many Muslims interpret Taqia to mean “All is fair in war”, it is impossible for us to distinguish good Muslims on internet. We appreciate your views on actual meaning of Taqiah and would not debate that. However a clear condemnation of Zakir Naik and other fanatics who see all non-Muslims in Hell, as well as further clarity on other points would rest all doubts, if any.

We are getting huge number of threatening and abusive comments, and mails from fake ids and same people posing as moderate and extremist at same time, leading to this confusion. Our scholars have been receiving death threats and the matter has been reported to police as well. Under such situations, we are helpless but to adopt stringent policies to quarantine those people who have even slightest tendency for terrorism or cursing non-believers to permanent Hell.

If you would notice other threads, people have been appreciating your stand here. We hope to have even further clarity so that we can ensure that our visitors are having intellectual yet compassionate discussions and not being victims of terrorist minds. And more importantly we want to drive home the point that tolerant Muslim is not an oxymoron as alleged by Ali Sina. We need your support in this mission.

Thanks for clarifying and appreciating my views. I went through your response. There are a couple of things which I need to check and research more before I can answer. My working days don’t give me time for anything else. I shall give my response next weekend.

I would like to present my views to the 10 points raised here : I’m just briefing it. I do not have time for a discussion on all these topics, hence, i will be late to reply to your responses.

a) I have explained this one in some other thread on what True Kufr means, from the statements of great Islamic scholar Imam Gazzali. The verse “For We shall not punish unless a Messenger has been sent” is applicable in the context. Also, the Dawah given by a Daee may not be convincing as given by a Prophet.

b) Surely, terrorists who kill, rape or loot in name of Islam would go to Hell.

c) I would disagree with this one. Only in financial transactions, 2 witnesses are required. The hadith where the Prophet(pbuh) said this, it was on a lighter note to exhort women to contribute to the war fund.

d) Jizya was just a tax on the non-Muslims for their security in the Islamic nation, just like the taxes we have today. Muslims pay Zakat to the treasury. For non-Muslims, it was Jizya.

e) No translations are perfect. There is a huge difference between the word of the Creator and the word of the translator. this is unanimously accepted by all Muslim scholars.

f) There is no rape of war victims in Sahih Hadith. POW were taken as slaves and only the owner of the slave was given the right to have sex with them. Killing children or women are highly prohibited as well.

g) Punishment of apostacy is not mentioned in Quran. the ruling of killing apostates was applicable at the time of the Prophet(pbuh) considering the circumstances and the treason involved. In Islam, “There is no compulsion in religion”.

h) BABUR is not a religious or a revered figure in Islam.

i) Agreed. But, I have doubts on the fatwa shown. I don’t think Saudi has ever forced the non Muslim citizens to accept Islam. Even now, there is a good population of Christians there.

j) I personally do not object to the propagation of other faiths in Islamic countries other than Saudi Arabia.

Thanks for your relatively clear responses. However some more clarity is required. While we are impressed by your views which are comparatively more clear than others, and offering to share them first, we want to make sure everyone else is also convinced that you are not indulging in Al-Taqiah.:

a. Do you then agree that Zakir Naik deserves to be condemned and opposed harshly for his view on Heaven being exclusive right of Muslims alone and in process making mockery of the very foundation of Islam ie Peace, as per you? If yes, please showcase your clear condemnation of such seriously fanatic and dangerous views of Zakir Naik.

b. Do you then agree that the scholar in this video deserves severe condemnation for his terrorist views?

c. Do you then agree that all those countries who demand double the witnesses for women in matters apart from finance are being against Islam?

Further refer http://agniveer.com/1174/islam-and-women-rights/ There is not one but huge number of Hadiths where Muhammad is alleged to have considered women to be deserving Hell and bereft of intelligence. This means either Muhammad always considered women to be matter of disgusting jokes or the hadith is false. We believe in latter, but please cite your clear views on this.

Further, if these Hadiths be joke, what is guarantee that rest of the Hadiths and verses of Quran were also not jokes and pranks by Muhammad which were taken too seriously by superstitious people?

d. Why differentiate between Muslim and non-Muslim in matters of taxation? This itself is shameless discrimination on basis of religion. Refer the fatwa attached and verse of Quran Tawbah 29 : Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the People of the Scripture, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

It is clear in both Hindi and Urdu from all translations and tafsirs that to feel subdued (apamaanit in hindi) in necessary for Jizia. So Jizia is nothing more than Gabbar Singh brand of dacoity as per authentic texts.

So you should agree that all these Islamic books published by Islamic publishers and scholars are anti-Islamic if Jizya is justified.

e. If no translation is perfect, why likes of Zakir Naik and his follower debaters quote from these as if they are perfect but complain when same source is used by those questioning Islam? Instead of alleging that we quote from anti-Islamic sources, they should say that the Islamic sources themselves are imperfect. I hope you shall follow this view. Thanks for clarifying.

Further, do you mean that Allah was unjust to give Quran only in Arabic language which hardly a miniscule % of world population has known ever since birth of Islam. Even majority of Muslims don’t know Arabic enough to understand the meaning of Quran. And rest of the entire humanity is at mercy of such blatantly defective translations of Quran. Since they have only one birth to understand Quran, their chances of understanding Islam goes for a toss and the gigantic work of Allah plus Gabriel plus Muhammad goes for utter waste for overwhelming majority of the world. Only 4% of people at most know Arabic, forget about Arabic of Quran.

f. You have not referred to references given in this point. There is not one but several Sahih hadiths on this. Either accept that they are misinterpreted or that they are not authentic. In either case, then instead of questioning detractors of Islam, those who publish such Hadiths should be opposed first.

g. Thanks for clarifying that killing of apostates is wrong. We have referred to videos of Zakir justifying so. So we expect you to proclaim clearly that Zakir is anti-Islamic for such terrorist views. After all the foundation of Islam is peace.

h. Thanks again for clarifying this. Now you should oppose those who are trying to defend a mosque built by an anti-Islamic person in name of his sex-partner. Is this not mockery of Islam to try to defend the legacy and name of a psychopathic anti-Islam? Why no cleric ever said that whatever be the mosque built at Ayodhya or not, it would not be named after babur?

i. Are the Christians possessing same human rights as Muslims? World knows about human rights in 100% islamic countries like Saudi and Somalia. The fatwa was taken from an established Islamic site whose link is also given in the fatwa document. Whatever be the situation, so you agree that it is wrong and if any cleric or group or country believes so, it is criminal.

j. Why make an exception for Saudi Arabia? If a mosque can be built right at site of Ram Janmabhoomi or Kashi or Mathura, why oppose propagation of Islam even in Kaaba?

We request more clarity on these points to set good examples of a good Muslim. Further, we would urge you to then condemn Zakir Naik, all the islamic publications and Islamic sites, Islamic schools like Deoband Darul Uloom.etc first because all that Agniveer has referred is from these sources. Even when anti-islamic sources have been referred, we have only used the content which they lifted from originally Islamic sources.

We request this clarity and open condemnation of Zakir Naik et al for propagating intolerance against non-Muslims and cursing them ‘Go to Hell!’ and then welcome you to indulge in discussions on the site.

I’m replying after a long time, since I was very busy for the last one month. My reply covers only half of the topic. The remaining shall be answered later, Insha Allah.

a) I watched the video of Zakir Naik. What he has concluded is that even if a person is righteous, he shall not reach Heaven if he/she commits shirk. this is true as per Islam. He hasn’t spoken on people who did not receive the message or are not convinced in Islam. By the way, I don’t think any rational/logical person can believe in existence of multiple gods.

b) The other scholar in the video seems to have very little knowledge. It seems he is supporting Muslims even if they do terrorist acts. I strongly condemn such views.

c) Quran speaks of two women witnesses only in case of financial transactions and that too in cases where 2 men witnesses are not available. Some jurists have said 2 women witnesses are required in case of murder due to the fear in them. IF there are countries who demand double the witnesses for women in other matters as well, plz let me know them specifically and I shall give my replies.

Coming to the hadith (deficiency of intelligence and religion) , I don’t believe the hadith to be false. I got the context totally wrong initially. But, these words were spoken only on a single instance. The deficiency in intelligence does not mean BEREFT of intelligence, it’s lack of life experience. A Muslim woman is usually kept sheltered to protect her. So obviously she won’t have the same amount of life experience that a man would. This was just a common observation. Even today, speaking in GENERAL terms it can be observed that, women are less intelligent than men and men are less eloquent in language than women.

You quoted “Further, if these Hadiths be joke, what is guarantee that rest of the Hadiths and verses of Quran were also not jokes and pranks by Muhammad which were taken too seriously by superstitious people?”

I shall answer this giving few examples.

1) Abu Musa al-Ash’ari says about her: “Never had we (the Companions) had any difficulty for the solution of which we approached Aisha and did not get some useful information from her”. – Sirat-I-Aisha, on the authority of Tirmidhi, p. 163.

If Women are defficient then why sahaba (who took every word of Prophet(pbuh) too seriously) asked help from Mother of believers??

2) Umar Corrected by a woman: One day, Umar ibn al-Khattab declared in public: “Anyone who pays more for their dowry than what the Prophet [peace be upon him] used to pay, will put the excess amount in the Public Treasury.” A woman from the Quraish came to him and said: “O commander of the Believers, which have more right to be followed, the Book of Allah [the Qur’an]or your statement? ” He answered: “The Book of Allah.” So she told him, “You have just prohibited the people from giving the excess amount from the dowry, but Allah Taalah has revealed in His Book: “And if you have given them a geat amount of gold as dower, take not the least bit of it back.” [4:20]? ” Therefore Umar said a few times: “The woman is correct and Umar is mistaken.” He addresses people again, and said: “Verily a man may do whatever he sees fit with his wealth.” [Sunan al Kubra, Beirut, Dar al-Fikr, nd., vol 7, p 233]

Here we can see a women correcting Sahaba including Umar bin Al Khattab and his opinions and Umar RA was amongst the most knowledgable sahaba and he was khalifatul Muslimeen. Umar accepted the opinion of the women and did not condemn her saying she is less intelligent or anything of that sort.

3) Wives of Prophet (peace be upon him) adviced him see proof, Umm Salma Adviced Prophet peace be upon him himself. It is mentioned in Sealed Nectar: When the peace treaty had been concluded, the Prophet (Peace be upon him) ordered his Companions to slaughter their sacrificial animals, but they were too depressed to do that. The Prophet (Peace be upon him) gave instructions in this regard three times but with negative response. He told his wife Umm Salamah about this attitude of his Companions. She advised that he himself take the initiative, slaughter his animal and have his head shaved. Seeing that, the Muslims, with rended hearts, started to slaughter their animals and shave their heads. They even almost killed one another because of their distress. The Prophet (Peace be upon him) prayed three times for those who shaved their heads and once for those who cut their hair… (Sealed Nectar by Shaykh Safi ur Rahman Egnlish translation page 155)

Prophet peace be upon him never said “Oh, you are woman and your mind has deficiency”. Rather he followed her advise and it worked.

4) Prophet peace be upon him himself said: “Verily women are the twin halves of men.” [Abu Dawood #234 , Tirmidhi #113 ]

d) Jizya The jizyah and zakâh are two taxation schemes for citizens in the Muslim state. It is only fair that both groups of citizens pay into the state treasury, since both have equal access to state welfare, government services, and public works. The Muslims pay zakâh upon their savings as an act of worship, to purify their wealth. Likewise, military service in the Muslim state is seen as a religious duty when the state summons the person to serve. Non-Muslims are therefore exempt from military service for this reason. Likewise, instead of having to pay the religious tax of zakâh, they have to pay a fixed tax that is purely a civil duty and not tied in with any religious conviction.

1) “in a condition of submission” does not mean that the jizyah is some sort of punishment or humiliation for the non-Muslim citizens. This is a misreading of the verse and a common misunderstanding held by Muslims and non-Muslims alike.

Several jurists understood that this word [“sâghirûn” in Qu’ran 9:29] implies that the Dhimmis have to be humiliated when paying the Jizyah. The great scholar, Ibnul Qayyim refutes this interpretation. After having quoted different opinons, he says: “This is groundless and the verse doesn’t imply that. It is not related that the Prophet or the companions acted like that. The correct opinion regarding this verse is that the word “saghâr” means “acceptance” by non-Muslims of the structure of the Muslim right and their payment of Jizya. (Ahkam Ahlul Dhimma, Volume 1 p. 23-24).

2) The word sâghir has meanings like “meek” or “humbled” or “subdued”. What this means is that the non-Muslim citizens of the state are subordinate to the state and not in an act of opposition or rebellion against it. This means that these non-Muslims are paying the tax that is due upon them in a framework of obedience to, and recognition of, the state wherein they are full citizens.

The jizyah is paid annually as a fixed sum of money levied upon each free, adult male citizen. No jizyah is paid by or on behalf of a child, a woman, or a slave. A poor man who cannot afford to pay the jizyah is also exempt.

Al-Qurtubi said: “This is ijma’[9:29] (consensus) by scholars that jizya is levied only on adult, free men who are qualified to go to war not on women or children or slaves or mad people or defeated people or senile or the elderly.”[Al-Jami’ Le’ Ahkaam el Quraan (72/8)]

‘Caliph Umar(ra) wrote to his army generals: “Never levy the tax (Jizya) on women or little children and never levy the tax except on men who shave their beards” – which means adults who started to have beards and shave them. [‘Irwa’ Al-Ghaleel (1255)]

Al-Tabari gives an account in the context of ‘Umar’s speech with a delegation from a country of dhimma, ” ‘Umar said to the delegation: Do Muslims mistreat you or impair your rights? They said: We never knew but honor and good treatment.”[History of Al-Tabari'(503/2)]

When he (Umar) received the collected taxes he asked about the source lest it be oppression and coercion. It was said that he, may Allah be pleased with him, “received a large amount of money, I reckon he said it is of the jizya and said: “I am afraid you might have forced people into paying?” They said: “No, by Allah, we only took it satisfactorily and with no grudge.” He said: “With neither whip nor lash?” They said: “Yes.” He said: “Praise be to Allah who prevented such acts from taking place at my hand and during my rule.”[Al-Mughni (290/9), Ahkaam Ahlel-Dhimma (139/1]

When he was about to pass away he never missed to advise Muslims to protect and care for the people of dhimma. He said: “I hereby advise the Caliph to succeed me to be good to the people of dhimma and to honor their covenant and to fight for them and not to overwork them.”[Narrated by Bukhari (1392) in (1356/3)]

The non-Muslims who pay the jizyah – as well as those non-Muslim citizens who are exempt from paying it for whatever reason – are all full citizens of the Muslim country. Their rights, their lives, their property, and their honor are inviolable. They have the right to employment, education, and to freely engage in commerce. Also if the Islamic state cannot grant protection to the non-Muslims then the non-Muslims are not obliged to pay the jizya tax, since Muslims themselves must meet expectations for the jizya tax to be implemented.

Eg: During ‘Umar’s caliphate, Abu ‘Ubayda, the embodiment of justice, commanded the Muslim armies in Syria. When the Byzantine Emperor set out to recapture Hims, Abu ‘Ubayda decided to evacuate the city, for his forces were vastly outnumbered. He had the non-Muslim population assembled and announced: “We collected the protection tax from you because we had to defend you. Since we can’t defend you against the coming Byzantine assault, we are returning the tax we collected.” This was done. Pleased with the Muslim administration, Christian priests and Jewish rabbis flocked to the churches and synagogues to pray that God would cause the Muslim army to be successful. [ Abu Dawud, Adab, 164; Ibn Hanbal, 1:404.]

Also, Society today has no problem in paying taxes to the government, so therefore they should have no problem in paying a tax in an Islamic state either.

e) Of course no translation is perfect. But, does that mean we should discard the whole book and label them as anti Islamic ? Why can’t we follow the correct translations and study further on those translations which are imperfect? We complain when one deliberately quotes out of context and uses fabricated and weak reports from history books and seerah , unauthentic hadith, unknown tafseers etc. (Hussaini) to prove their point.

Do you mean to say one can learn Quran only if he knows Arabic? Can’t the person go and ask an Arabic scholar or Imam of the local area for the explanation? Aren’t there Islamic scholars and madrassas everywhere? Don’t they meet every week on Fridays atleast?

Atleast the majority Muslims know to read Arabic. Why don’t they learn the language, if they are really interested in knowing the Quran.

What have you got to say about the Vedas then, as not even 0.001% knows Sanskrit? Vik said Ishwar revealed Vedas in Sanskrit because it is the mother of all languages. Now, even if I suppose it is the mother of all languages, in what way is this any better? Can someone who knows English/Spanish/Chinese etc. understand Sanskrit any better than Arabic?

❰@MSV: I’m replying after a long time, since I was very busy for the last one month. My reply covers only half of the topic. The remaining shall be answered later, Insha Allah.❱

take your time sir.Meanwhile , here’s a satirical response to kindle the light of reason in you

❰@MSV: a) I watched the video of Zakir Naik. What he has concluded is that even if a person is righteous, he shall not reach Heaven if he/she commits shirk. this is true as per Islam.❱

Akram kasai who beats his wives and has sex with his married slave women goes straight to heaven and poor mother Teressa goes to hell ..isn’t this another miracle of Islam ?

❰@MSV: He hasn’t spoken on people who did not receive the message or are not convinced in Islam.❱

hmm..so you mean to say that the Cannibals of Amazon will go straight to heaven ?

btw, what will Allah do if a cannibal eats a momin in heaven?..after all, a cannibals staple diet is human flesh ..can you throw some light on that? 😉

❰@MSV: By the way, I don’t think any rational/logical person can believe in existence of multiple gods.❱

correct! rational minds should only believe in multiple jinns and not multiple gods..right?

and rational minds should treat a book as the book of God just because the book says so ..isn’t it?

❰@MSV: b) The other scholar in the video seems to have very little knowledge. It seems he is supporting Muslims even if they do terrorist acts. I strongly condemn such views.❱

If the first scholar( mullah zakir naik ) can support the Nobel peace Laurette Sir Osama Bin Laden, then what’s wrong with the other mullah supporting other peace champions?

[thankfully, you are as averse to such peace champions as me ..i respect you for that..and this aint satire ]

❰@MSV: c) Quran speaks of two women witnesses only in case of financial transactions and that too in cases where 2 men witnesses are not available. Some jurists have said 2 women witnesses are required in case of murder due to the fear in them. IF there are countries who demand double the witnesses for women in other matters as well, plz let me know them specifically and I shall give my replies.❱

hmm ..financial matters ..right?

so we must be as rational(read irrational) as you in concluding that rehman rickshaw wallah has better financial acumen than indira nooyi , the chairperson of pepsico..correct?

forget about reason ..just tell us ..how did you time travel from 7th century arabia to post this gem?

❰@MSV: Coming to the hadith (deficiency of intelligence and religion) , I don’t believe the hadith to be false. I got the context totally wrong initially. But, these words were spoken only on a single instance.❱

Bingo! most of the quranic verses were “spoken only on a single instance” ..by your logic shouldn’t we discard all these too ..what say bro?

❰@MSV: The deficiency in intelligence does not mean BEREFT of intelligence, it’s lack of life experience.❱

lack of life experience may be called naivety ..not deficiency of intelligence

sorry to say …you are both naive and deficient of intelligence ..you must be feeling as liberated as a muslimah reading this compliment..don’t you?

❰@MSV: A Muslim woman is usually kept sheltered to protect her.❱

Yuppie! women need to be well protected along with the goats and camels!..right?

who can be a better judge than allah ..only he didn’t know that Indira Gandhi would make 90,000 of his slaves her slaves in 1971 indo pak war

❰@MSV: So obviously she won’t have the same amount of life experience that a man would. This was just a common observation. Even today, speaking in GENERAL terms it can be observed that, women are less intelligent than men and men are less eloquent in language than women.❱

hmm.. the women pilots and army officers are deficient of intelligence and have less life experience than a MSV or indian agnostic who bang their car every two months on the ever changing dividers on the indian roads. right?

And anissa sayed has just won one gold medal at cwg 2010 ..MSV got 10 iron medals for India at CWG ..10 cheers for MSV ..how can a muslimah be a match to MSV (or Indian Agnostic) the great..isn’t it?

30% of software professionals in India are women .,.and only 3% of Indian Muslims are graduates..intelligent men aren’t they?..all by the blessings of allah and traditions of Muhammad

❰@MSV: You quoted “Further, if these Hadiths be joke, what is guarantee that rest of the Hadiths and verses of Quran were also not jokes and pranks by Muhammad which were taken too seriously by superstitious people?” I shall answer this giving few examples. 1) Abu Musa al-Ash’ari says about her: “Never had we (the Companions) had any difficulty for the solution of which we approached Aisha and did not get some useful information from her”. – Sirat-I-Aisha, on the authority of Tirmidhi, p. 163. If Women are defficient then why sahaba (who took every word of Prophet(pbuh) too seriously) asked help from Mother of believers??❱

by becoming the child wife of Muhammad, Aisha becomes the best woman in the history and future of mankind ..this is another miracle of Islam!

By the way MSV bro ..one thing is very confusing ..how come Aisha is mother of all muslims and Muhammad is father of no muslim? ..is that because of another mother(Zainab) ..notty notty?

❰@MSV: 2) Umar Corrected by a woman: One day, Umar ibn al-Khattab declared in public: “Anyone who pays more for their dowry than what the Prophet [peace be upon him] used to pay, will put the excess amount in the Public Treasury.” A woman from the Quraish came to him and said: “O commander of the Believers, which have more right to be followed, the Book of Allah [the Qur’an]or your statement? ” He answered: “The Book of Allah.” So she told him, “You have just prohibited the people from giving the excess amount from the dowry, but Allah Taalah has revealed in His Book: “And if you have given them a geat amount of gold as dower, take not the least bit of it back.” [4:20]? ” Therefore Umar said a few times: “The woman is correct and Umar is mistaken.” He addresses people again, and said: “Verily a man may do whatever he sees fit with his wealth.” [Sunan al Kubra, Beirut, Dar al-Fikr, nd., vol 7, p 233] Here we can see a women correcting Sahaba including Umar bin Al Khattab and his opinions and Umar RA was amongst the most knowledgable sahaba and he was khalifatul Muslimeen. Umar accepted the opinion of the women and did not condemn her saying she is less intelligent or anything of that sort.❱

Umar didn’t respect the woman’s opinion..but what was written in the Quran..thankfully the deficient women remembered the quran better than Umar khalifa..otherwise we know how islam elevates disobedient women …by the neck on a crane..right?

and aint you smart …not telling the kafirs about the status of women in pre-islamic arabia.

shhh..we wont tell them that Muhammad worked for Khadija the wealthy business women before he created islam. and we won’t tell the kafirs that when Muhammad was trembling with fear that a demon spirit has caught him ..It was Khadija who comforted Muhammad who was hiding inside a sheet.

Isn’t it a miracle of Islam that a woman protected and comforted your prophet before Islam ..but the women was reduced to the status of camels and goats after islam?

so we have that a lone independent business woman could even afford to keep your prophet as an employee before Islam, she could comfort her trembling husband ..but after Islam the greatest feat a woman could achieve was to remember muhammad’s quran to get an agreement from Umar khalifa ..is that what you want us to understand?

❰@MSV: d) Jizya The jizyah and zakâh are two taxation schemes for citizens in the Muslim state. It is only fair that both groups of citizens pay into the state treasury, since both have equal access to state welfare, government services, and public works. The Muslims pay zakâh upon their savings as an act of worship, to purify their wealth. Likewise, military service in the Muslim state is seen as a religious duty when the state summons the person to serve. Non-Muslims are therefore exempt from military service for this reason. Likewise, instead of having to pay the religious tax of zakâh, they have to pay a fixed tax that is purely a civil duty and not tied in with any religious conviction. 1) “in a condition of submission” does not mean that the jizyah is some sort of punishment or humiliation for the non-Muslim citizens. This is a misreading of the verse and a common misunderstanding held by Muslims and non-Muslims alike. Several jurists understood that this word [“sâghirûn” in Qu’ran 9:29] implies that the Dhimmis have to be humiliated when paying the Jizyah. The great scholar, Ibnul Qayyim refutes this interpretation. After having quoted different opinons, he says: “This is groundless and the verse doesn’t imply that. It is not related that the Prophet or the companions acted like that. The correct opinion regarding this verse is that the word “saghâr” means “acceptance” by non-Muslims of the structure of the Muslim right and their payment of Jizya. (Ahkam Ahlul Dhimma, Volume 1 p. 23-24). 2) The word sâghir has meanings like “meek” or “humbled” or “subdued”. What this means is that the non-Muslim citizens of the state are subordinate to the state and not in an act of opposition or rebellion against it. This means that these non-Muslims are paying the tax that is due upon them in a framework of obedience to, and recognition of, the state wherein they are full citizens…lot’s of Taqiyya….Also, Society today has no problem in paying taxes to the government, so therefore they should have no problem in paying a tax in an Islamic state either.❱

Saghirina – has no other meaning ..it means humiliation , subdued with contempt.

refer Quran 7:13 where Allah throws Satan out of heaven in contempt …”inaka mina l saghirina” .. you are of those humiliated and disgraced refer Quran 12:32 “walayakunan mina l saghrina” …meaning.. who are in a state of ignominy..or those brought low or those who are disgraced

So stop lying about this disgusting practice..Jizya was levied to humiliate the people who wanted to stay away from Islam.

The history of Islam shows that zakat and jizya were never the same nor will they ever be whenever muslims run havoc in any place.

Jizya used to be 4-5 times higher than the muslim zakat (2.5% versus 10%)

are you ready to pay 4 times more tax in India and the tax officer spitting on your face when you pay that exorbitant and unjust tax ? .if not .then stop justifying this disgusting practice of barbarian looters.

read how islam conqured India to know how jizya has been collected from your and my forefathers ..yours converted, but i can’t blame them …but i can sure blame you for upholding such a disgusting practice that forced a foreign religion on us.

no jokes on this one ..it is very disturbing to see that victims of barbarity have become the torchbearers of barbarity ..that is the most dangerous outcome of Islam ..it’s disgusting to say the least..where’s your morality ?

❰@MSV: e) Atleast the majority Muslims know to read Arabic. Why don’t they learn the language, if they are really interested in knowing the Quran.❱

90% muslims are illiterate..forget about majority of them knowing Arabic. And this (thanks vik for sharing) is demonstrated by Pandit Mahendra Pal Arya in many of his debates..he would say something in arabic and the muslims could not tell if it was from the quran or not ..so leave the “knowing arabic” argument aside

and why look elsewhere ..even you yourself don’t know the meaning of the word saghirina ..which means humiliation and disgrace

so before advising others i would request you to learn arabic first before defending the indefensible quran

Sorry, to say your satirical response doesn’t throw any light of reason at all, rather your lack of understanding!!!

“Akram kasai who beats his wives and has sex with his married slave women goes straight to heaven and poor mother Teressa goes to hell ..isn’t this another miracle of Islam ?”

Firstly, who are u to say Akram kasai will go to heaven and Mother Tereas goes to Hell !! It all depends on Allah(swt). So, no need to make assumptions and conclusions. How do you know Mother Theresa did Shirk?

Cannibals : I have no idea of their fate. Neither you can say anything of any other person as well.

“correct! rational minds should only believe in multiple jinns and not multiple gods..right? It goes like this. Prophet Muhammad was truthful, Quran is the word of God…Hence, we believe in jinns. What is so irrational in this conclusion?

and rational minds should treat a book as the book of God just because the book says so ..isn’t it?” Nope..go through the Miracle Dream Tafseer sessions in bayyinah.com. And you decide for yourself.

“If the first scholar( mullah zakir naik ) can support the Nobel peace Laurette Sir Osama Bin Laden, then what’s wrong with the other mullah supporting other peace champions?”

Where did he actually support? He said he didn’t know whether he is a terrorist or not and has it been proved that 9/11 was done by him??

“Bingo! most of the quranic verses were “spoken only on a single instance” ..by your logic shouldn’t we discard all these too ..what say bro?” Don’t argue without reading the post. Agniveer said that many times Prophet(pbuh) said women are deficient in intelligence. My response was in reply to that. I don’t understand how on the earth you took my statement as a proof to prove someother thing. You seem to be lost in hatred.

“sorry to say …you are both naive and deficient of intelligence ..you must be feeling as liberated as a muslimah reading this compliment..don’t you?” Thanks.

“hmm ..financial matters ..right? so we must be as rational(read irrational) as you in concluding that rehman rickshaw wallah has better financial acumen than indira nooyi , the chairperson of pepsico..correct?forget about reason ..just tell us ..how did you time travel from 7th century arabia to post this gem?

How many Indra Nooyi’s are there, bro? Are all women of the caliber of Indra Nooyi’s? Do you know the literacy rate of women in our Mother country, forget about Middle East?

If you believe it’s partiality, then there are other examples were women has favours over men.

1. Gold and silk permitted for women alone. “These two [gold and silk] are forbidden for the males of my ummah and permissible for the females.” (Narrated by Ibn Maajah, 3640; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Ibn Maajah)

2.. A Mother has 3 times more right over her children then the father Proof: Saheeh Muslim Book 032, Number 6180:.Abu Huraira reported that a person came to Allah, ‘s Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Who among the people is most deserving of a fine treatment from my hand? He said: Your mother. He again said: Then who (is the next one)? He said: Again it is your mother (who deserves the best treatment from you). He said: Then who (is the next one)? He (the Holy Prophet) said: Again, it is your mother. He (again) said: Then who? Thereupon he said: Then it is your father

4. Man gives the dower to his wife. Proof: Surah 4:4 (And give the women (on marriage) their dower as a free gift)

5. Women can pray in their Homes and as well as in Masajid and but man have to pray in congregation if he prays at home he will get very less thawab for that.

6. Women are commanded in their monthly periods to leave prayers proof for this is:

Mu’adhah said:”I asked Aishah: Why must we make up the fasts missed due to our menstruation, but not the prayers [ missed through menstruation] ?” She said, “That was what the Messenger of Allah told us to do. We were ordered to make up the fasts, and we were ordered not to make up the prayers.” [ Fiqh as-Sunnah 1.71a ] and she will be rewarded for not praying during their periods.

Allah says [016:097] Whoever works righteousness, whether male or female, while he (or she) is a true believer (of Islamic Monotheism) verily, to him We will give a good life (in this world with respect, contentment and lawful provision), and We shall pay them certainly a reward in proportion to the best of what they used to do (i.e. Paradise in the Hereafter).

Subhan`Allah by obeying the command that she should not pray in her monthly periods she will receive rewards. but for men they have to pray 5 times daily and if he leaves the prayer he will be punished for that if he does not repent.

7. When woman makes halal money, she has a free will to utilise it on her brother or father or husband it is her own but for husband It is Obligatory on him to utilise money on her wife and whole family, because Man is responsible for wife, sister and daughter..

“Yuppie! women need to be well protected along with the goats and camels!..right?” Yes. They have to be protected.

“And anissa sayed has just won one gold medal at cwg 2010 ..MSV got 10 iron medals for India at CWG ..10 cheers for MSV ..how can a muslimah be a match to MSV (or Indian Agnostic) the great..isn’t it?”

Bro, read what I said. Speaking in GENERAL terms, it can be OBSERVED that, women are LESS intelligent than men and men are LESS eloquent in language than women. Note the CAPITALs. You don’t need to bring examples of great women to prove otherwise. If I give the list of scientists, nobel lauretes, philosophers, politicians, revolutionaries etc…there is no match between men and women.

Okie. Even if I assume this was the reason they went to her, still the sahaba said “Never had we (the Companions) had any difficulty for the solution of which we approached Aisha and did not get some useful information from her”. So, this does shows she was knowledgeable.

“Umar didn’t respect the woman’s opinion..but what was written in the Quran..thankfully the deficient women remembered the quran better than Umar khalifa..otherwise we know how islam elevates disobedient women …by the neck on a crane..right?”

LOL..How did Umar disrespect the woman’s opinion? Again, another understanding from the hadith is that women has the right to question even the Caliph of Islam.

Khadija : Yes, she is one of the four most noble women in Islam. But, Khadija alone doesn’t represent the whole womenhood of Arabia. You cannot deny the fact that Arabs buried new born babies. It’s even accepted by the Sahaba themselves. You cannot deny the fact that temporary marriage existed in Arablia..etc

“By the way MSV bro ..one thing is very confusing ..how come Aisha is mother of all muslims and Muhammad is father of no muslim? ..is that because of another mother(Zainab) ..notty notty? ”

It’s a title of respect given to the Prophet’s wives. Does it mean biologically? How did you conclude that? Interesting if I would ask where is Father India, Father language, Father tongue…

“Saghirina – has no other meaning ..it means humiliation , subdued with contempt.”

1. The same word does not have the same meaning in all contexts. 2. I have already given the example of great scholar, Ibnul Qayyim who refutes this interpretation. After having quoted different opinons, he says: “This is groundless and the verse doesn’t imply that. It is not related that the Prophet or the companions acted like that. The correct opinion regarding this verse is that the word “saghâr” means “acceptance” by non-Muslims of the structure of the Muslim right and their payment of Jizya. (Ahkam Ahlul Dhimma, Volume 1 p. 23-24). 3. The word sâghir has meanings like “meek” or “humbled” or “subdued”. What this means is that the non-Muslim citizens of the state are SUBORDINATE to the state and NOT IN AN ACT OF OPPOSITION OR REBELLION against it. This means that these non-Muslims are paying the tax that is due upon them in a framework of OBEDIENCE to, and RECOGNITION of, the state wherein they are full citizens.

” The history of Islam shows that zakat and jizya were never the same nor will they ever be whenever muslims run havoc in any place. Jizya used to be 4-5 times higher than the muslim zakat (2.5% versus 10%) ”

Bro, what namesake Islamic rulers did does not matter to us. We have the examples of how the Jizya was levied at the time of our rightly guided Caliphs. That’s the example for us.

Now I am reposting the quotes again. Please READ through it.

Al-Qurtubi said: “This is ijma’[9:29] (consensus) by scholars that jizya is levied only on adult, free men who are qualified to go to war not on women or children or slaves or mad people or defeated people or senile or the elderly.”[Al-Jami’ Le’ Ahkaam el Quraan (72/8)]

‘Caliph Umar(ra) wrote to his army generals: “Never levy the tax (Jizya) on women or little children and never levy the tax except on men who shave their beards” – which means adults who started to have beards and shave them. [‘Irwa’ Al-Ghaleel (1255)]

Al-Tabari gives an account in the context of ‘Umar’s speech with a delegation from a country of dhimma, ” ‘Umar said to the delegation: Do Muslims mistreat you or impair your rights? They said: We never knew but honor and good treatment.”[History of Al-Tabari'(503/2)]

When he (Umar) received the collected taxes he asked about the source lest it be oppression and coercion. It was said that he, may Allah be pleased with him, “received a large amount of money, I reckon he said it is of the jizya and said: “I am afraid you might have forced people into paying?” They said: “No, by Allah, we only took it satisfactorily and with no grudge.” He said: “With neither whip nor lash?” They said: “Yes.” He said: “Praise be to Allah who prevented such acts from taking place at my hand and during my rule.”[Al-Mughni (290/9), Ahkaam Ahlel-Dhimma (139/1]

When he was about to pass away he never missed to advise Muslims to protect and care for the people of dhimma. He said: “I hereby advise the Caliph to succeed me to be good to the people of dhimma and to honor their covenant and to fight for them and not to overwork them.”[Narrated by Bukhari (1392) in (1356/3)]

If you still believe it was an unjust and exorbitant tax, you must be blind.

“read how islam conqured India to know how jizya has been collected from your and my forefathers ..yours converted, but i can’t blame them …but i can sure blame you for upholding such a disgusting practice that forced a foreign religion on us.”

Bro, I am a Keralite. 25% of Keralites are Muslims. The first Muslims and the first mosque in India are from Kerala. There wasn’t any forced conversion here. And I’m more than happy for my forefathers who realised the truth and accepted Islam completely from their heart.

“90% muslims are illiterate..forget about majority of them knowing Arabic. And this (thanks vik for sharing) is demonstrated by Pandit Mahendra Pal Arya in many of his debates..he would say something in arabic and the muslims could not tell if it was from the quran or not ..so leave the “knowing arabic” argument aside”

Wonderful statics..Is it from Ali Sina’s site ? I din’t say majority know Arabic. I said majority know to READ. Can Mahendra Pal do it before any of the Hafiz in Quran?

“so before advising others i would request you to learn arabic first before defending the indefensible quran” Sure, I am learning it bit by bit. Indefensible…haha…nice joke.

As we all know that Islam has many fallacies, but can we summarise all into just few points lets say five or ten points? That too not in deep, because many of them are not scholars but still they want to debate with us. After giving them a few set of questions and let him/her to research on them. Is it possible?

Few from my side, please correct me if i am wrong. 1) If Islam preaches peace then why half of the world is suffering from ISLAMIC terrorism? why they are bombing on their own sects and on the other faith people. 2) If Islam preaches tolerance then why people of the other faiths(in Islamic country) are not allowed to spread their religion? 3) If Islam suits science then why most of the inventors are non-muslims, on contrary muslims didn’t invented a thing which can help to humanity. 4) …

There is no reason for us to doubt on you. However because many Muslims interpret Taqia to mean “All is fair in war”, it is impossible for us to distinguish good Muslims on internet. We appreciate your views on actual meaning of Taqiah and would not debate that. However a clear condemnation of Zakir Naik and other fanatics who see all non-Muslims in Hell, as well as further clarity on other points would rest all doubts, if any.

We are getting huge number of threatening and abusive comments, and mails from fake ids and same people posing as moderate and extremist at same time, leading to this confusion. Our scholars have been receiving death threats and the matter has been reported to police as well. Under such situations, we are helpless but to adopt stringent policies to quarantine those people who have even slightest tendency for terrorism or cursing non-believers to permanent Hell.

If you would notice other threads, people have been appreciating your stand here. We hope to have even further clarity so that we can ensure that our visitors are having intellectual yet compassionate discussions and not being victims of terrorist minds. And more importantly we want to drive home the point that tolerant Muslim is not an oxymoron as alleged by Ali Sina. We need your support in this mission.

sorry on you is this the way you people talk to anyone?you people calling everyone terrorist is this has been taugth to you .i m talking in a polite manner to you brother but you are showning this attitude.well its a good excuse to run away from having discussion to first clear the stand regarding your ten points i m not here to clear my stand on your points.i hv come here to clear my dounts about the vedas.ISLAM WAS RELIGION OF PEACE ,IS RELIGION OF PEACE AND WILL BE RELIGION OF PEACE. i always condemned the terrorist attack irrespective of who done it.

coming to your questions 1.ok for ur rplyto this question and clearing my doubt 2.but brother regarding the second question i want to say but i read in many places in vedas that ishwar can forgive sio it is looking contradiction in wht u say and what vedas says. for instance see this verse

Yajurved Adhyay 8 Shlok 13

It is very clearly mentioned that God can forgive sins.

It is repeatedly mentioned that God forgives/destroy the sins of his worshipper

God forgives the sins done by the father.

God even forgives/destroys the most heinous sins

God can forgive all sins done unknowingly

God can forgive all the sins done in the past or done currently.

so pls clear this for me

at last i want say that i m here to clear my doubts about vedas.we will hv to be united and always be resistful to all terrorist activities to make our country INDIA on the glory.

1) nobody is calling everybody terrorist..you are being asked to denounce the supporters of terrorists like zakir Naik..and YOU REFUSE TO DO SO ..it’s you who is supportin g the supporter of terrorists and blaming us otherwise!!! …thats outright dishonest

Thanks for your relatively clear responses. However some more clarity is required. While we are impressed by your views which are comparatively more clear than others, and offering to share them first, we want to make sure everyone else is also convinced that you are not indulging in Al-Taqiah.:

a. Do you then agree that Zakir Naik deserves to be condemned and opposed harshly for his view on Heaven being exclusive right of Muslims alone and in process making mockery of the very foundation of Islam ie Peace, as per you? If yes, please showcase your clear condemnation of such seriously fanatic and dangerous views of Zakir Naik.

b. Do you then agree that the scholar in this video deserves severe condemnation for his terrorist views?

c. Do you then agree that all those countries who demand double the witnesses for women in matters apart from finance are being against Islam?

Further refer http://Satyagni.com/1174/islam-and-women-rights/ There is not one but huge number of Hadiths where Muhammad is alleged to have considered women to be deserving Hell and bereft of intelligence. This means either Muhammad always considered women to be matter of disgusting jokes or the hadith is false. We believe in latter, but please cite your clear views on this.

Further, if these Hadiths be joke, what is guarantee that rest of the Hadiths and verses of Quran were also not jokes and pranks by Muhammad which were taken too seriously by superstitious people?

d. Why differentiate between Muslim and non-Muslim in matters of taxation? This itself is shameless discrimination on basis of religion. Refer the fatwa attached and verse of Quran Tawbah 29 : Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the People of the Scripture, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

It is clear in both Hindi and Urdu from all translations and tafsirs that to feel subdued (apamaanit in hindi) in necessary for Jizia. So Jizia is nothing more than Gabbar Singh brand of dacoity as per authentic texts.

So you should agree that all these Islamic books published by Islamic publishers and scholars are anti-Islamic if Jizya is justified.

e. If no translation is perfect, why likes of Zakir Naik and his follower debaters quote from these as if they are perfect but complain when same source is used by those questioning Islam? Instead of alleging that we quote from anti-Islamic sources, they should say that the Islamic sources themselves are imperfect. I hope you shall follow this view. Thanks for clarifying.

Further, do you mean that Allah was unjust to give Quran only in Arabic language which hardly a miniscule % of world population has known ever since birth of Islam. Even majority of Muslims don’t know Arabic enough to understand the meaning of Quran. And rest of the entire humanity is at mercy of such blatantly defective translations of Quran. Since they have only one birth to understand Quran, their chances of understanding Islam goes for a toss and the gigantic work of Allah plus Gabriel plus Muhammad goes for utter waste for overwhelming majority of the world. Only 4% of people at most know Arabic, forget about Arabic of Quran.

f. You have not referred to references given in this point. There is not one but several Sahih hadiths on this. Either accept that they are misinterpreted or that they are not authentic. In either case, then instead of questioning detractors of Islam, those who publish such Hadiths should be opposed first.

g. Thanks for clarifying that killing of apostates is wrong. We have referred to videos of Zakir justifying so. So we expect you to proclaim clearly that Zakir is anti-Islamic for such terrorist views. After all the foundation of Islam is peace.

h. Thanks again for clarifying this. Now you should oppose those who are trying to defend a mosque built by an anti-Islamic person in name of his sex-partner. Is this not mockery of Islam to try to defend the legacy and name of a psychopathic anti-Islam? Why no cleric ever said that whatever be the mosque built at Ayodhya or not, it would not be named after babur?

i. Are the Christians possessing same human rights as Muslims? World knows about human rights in 100% islamic countries like Saudi and Somalia. The fatwa was taken from an established Islamic site whose link is also given in the fatwa document. Whatever be the situation, so you agree that it is wrong and if any cleric or group or country believes so, it is criminal.

j. Why make an exception for Saudi Arabia? If a mosque can be built right at site of Ram Janmabhoomi or Kashi or Mathura, why oppose propagation of Islam even in Kaaba?

We request more clarity on these points to set good examples of a good Muslim. Further, we would urge you to then condemn Zakir Naik, all the islamic publications and Islamic sites, Islamic schools like Deoband Darul Uloom.etc first because all that Satyagni has referred is from these sources. Even when anti-islamic sources have been referred, we have only used the content which they lifted from originally Islamic sources.

We request this clarity and open condemnation of Zakir Naik et al for propagating intolerance against non-Muslims and cursing them ‘Go to Hell!’ and then welcome you to indulge in discussions on the site.

thats not the rply of my question you people claim to be having ture knowledge of vedas so i m here to know your people stand on some points. and also its your people duty to give knowledge hope you people will surely contribute in this

@AHMAD Brother, why cant you agree to the points which are given in the article? Anyway, I am giving you the answers but please make sure that you agree with 10 points before you ask further questions so that we get assured of you not being a terrorist whose ultimate belief is to see us in eternal hellfire.

1. Hindi translation of Arya Samaj Jamnagar site is the work of few people, who tried to translate Sanskrit meaning of the Mantras by Swami Dayanand.

sorry on you is this the way you people talk to anyone?you people calling everyone terrorist is this has been taugth to you .i m talking in a polite manner to you brother but you are showning this attitude.well its a good excuse to run away from having discussion to first clear the stand regarding your ten points i m not here to clear my stand on your points.i hv come here to clear my dounts about the vedas.ISLAM WAS RELIGION OF PEACE ,IS RELIGION OF PEACE AND WILL BE RELIGION OF PEACE. i always condemned the terrorist attack irrespective of who done it.

coming to your questions 1.ok for ur rplyto this question and clearing my doubt 2.but brother regarding the second question i want to say but i read in many places in vedas that ishwar can forgive sio it is looking contradiction in wht u say and what vedas says. for instance see this verse

Yajurved Adhyay 8 Shlok 13

It is very clearly mentioned that God can forgive sins.

It is repeatedly mentioned that God forgives/destroy the sins of his worshipper

God forgives the sins done by the father.

God even forgives/destroys the most heinous sins

God can forgive all sins done unknowingly

God can forgive all the sins done in the past or done currently.

so pls clear this for me

at last i want say that i m here to clear my doubts about vedas.we will hv to be united and always be resistful to all terrorist activities to make our country INDIA on the glory.

@AHMAD Dear brother, please point out a single place where we have called Muslims as terrorists. Please let us know that you are in agreement with the above 10 points of humanity and thus eligible to discuss the intellectual concepts like forgiveness.

Which Aryasamaj website did you see the translation of Yajurveda Adhyay 8 Shlok 13 ? You did not mention the full website location. Check it ten times, then ask question, dear brother. Let me make you clear Yajurved contains “Mantra” not “Shlok”.

Do you know Hindi or Sanskrit ? If you know then go to Sanskrit version of that “Mantra” and see where is the Sanskrit word used for God ? Please refer the correct references as Arya mentioned.

In the first comment you asked about Aryasamaj website as follows “1.WHO TRANSLATED YAJURVED AVAILABLE ON ARYASAMAJ WEBSITE.”

This is the quote from your reply to Arya “but brother regarding the second question i want to say but i read in many places in vedas that ishwar can forgive sio it is looking contradiction in wht u say and what vedas says.” First you saw Yajurved Mantra on Aryasamaj and then you are asking that I have read in many places. Now in the second comment you asked about “I read in many places” instead of “Aryasamaj”. Make clear about many places or Aryasamaj. It seems that you are confused yourself in the comments.

I hope now your point is clear (Go to correct website) and then clear the 10 points.

I dont know whether there is any special type of God for Arya Samaj. But in general God is very loving person, like our friend, very near and dear. We can love him, so why He / She will not forgive us for our misdeeds? We kicked thousand times our parents when we were baby, whether parents took any revenge?

Just pray, cry and say that i will not repeat the mistake. All sins will be resolved. But you have to suffer little effect of your bad deed, just for an experience to feel that how it was affected others when you did the act on others.

@True Indian God of Vedas is perfect and thus unchangeable. He does not change his rule for anyone. Omnipotence does not mean that He can go against His nature. I ask you, can Allah kill Himself, make another Allah, declare Agniveer a new Allah, commit sins, send Kafirs to heaven and Muslims to hell etc? If yes, then who knows, He might have killed himself? Or He might have changed the rule for entry into Jannah! Why do Muslims consider Allah to be pure, if He can get impure some day using His omnipotence?

Regarding gravity and hurting, whenever one experiences anything, it is as per his own Karma. Wherever you have any experience, good or bad, it has corresponding deed in past always and whatever you do now, it will give fruits in future for sure. This is Law of Karma.

Like every anti-Islamic agniveer and his arguments do not fit in any definitions of a valid argument , nonetheless lets scrutinize the article and show Agniveer his lack of Knowledge and understanding of Truth.

Firstly, Mr.Agniveer has hardly provided any well referenced quotes as most polemics try to and do, hence its very discomforting in replying to his vague so-called arguments against Islam.

As for Point 1 raised by Agniveer that Translation of Meaning of the Quran is here –

(Remember) when you (Muhammad [sal-Allâhu ‘alayhi wa sallam]) said to the believers, “Is it not enough for you that your Lord (Allâh) should help you with three thousand angels sent down?” -[3:124]

So what does it prove? I challenge Agniveer to prove , that angels do not exits scienctifically. Can he? So is this an argument?

As of point 2 then I think Agniveer has not read the verse properly, I would recommend Agniveer to go and re-read the verse , then try fool around. The verses Agniveer points out is –

“The angels and the Rûh [Jibrâîl (Gabriel)] ascend to Him in a Day the measure whereof is fifty thousand years” -[70:4]

And they say: “When we are (dead and become) lost in the earth, shall we indeed be created anew?” Nay, but they deny the Meeting with their Lord! [32:10]

Inshaa’Allah this thread will be dedicated to refuting the deviant Hindu website Agniveer, I would like to invite all our Brothers and sisters to help in refuting and debunking his kiddish claims.A article will be pasted from his website and then we ‘ll refute it point by point ,later this will Inshaa’Allah be compiled into a Good Article.

So the First Article is here -Science in Islam

Quote:

Angels in Islam

Let us now briefly understand what angels or farishta in Islam are and learn science from that.

1. Angels helped Muslims in battle of Badr through a battalion of 3000 angels. (Imran 124)

2. Angels and Souls climb up to him in 50000 years. (Maarij 4). Another ayat says the time is 1000 years (Sajda 5) and Mullahs fight on which is right.

3. On Judgment Day, 8 angels shall lift the throne of Allah Miyan. They will have faces of mountain goats (Haka 17)

4. There are angels of death who shall torture the Kafirs in Hell!

Thus Angels are Allah’s agents who work for Him for tasks that He cannot himself do! Or else, why would an all-powerful Allah need mediators for petty things!

Science in Quran

There is a lot of literature on Science in Islam on sites like Faith Freedom and Islam Watch.

Let me just present a few brief snippets that explain all. They say that a smart person can judge presence of fire from smoke itself.

a. Surate Bakar 22 – Allah made earth as bed and sky as roof for you!

b. Surate Rad 2 – You can clearly see that Allah lifted the skies without any pillars!

Tafseer-e-Husaini states that pillars do exist but we cannot see them!

c. Surate Lukman 10 repeats the same. That he created the skies without pillars.

d. On Judgment day, sky will tear, stars will fall, rivers will split and graves will rise. (Inftar 1-4)

e. Sky will tear away due to clouds! (Furqan 23) Tafseer-e-Husaini explains that a white heavy cloud shall tear away the 7 skies which has been currently stopped by Allah.

i. Surate Kahaf 85 explains sunset: “When he (angel Zulkarnain) went to the place where sun sets, he found that sun drowns in a mud-pond.” Nowadays, Mullahs explain it by saying that Zulkarnain made a mistake. But then why Allah put such false illusions in final message for whole world?

j. Mountains were made to stabilize the earth! Another stupid statement which these days is used by Mullahs to prove science in Quran. Actually the Quran writer did not know about round shape of earth or heliocentric model of solar system!

k. Allah made all animals with water! (Noor 45)

These are just a glimpse. Readers can read Quran and explore more themselves. These days many claim to have discovered new scientific facts in Quran. But they can never provide anything scientific from any translation or commentary on Quran before 1900. They simply twist words to force science in Quran and make bigger goofups.

Wise can understand. But those blinded in ignorance can be helped only by Allah! Few Point Which I have Tried to ponder upon.

My Response –

Like every anti-Islamic agniveer and his arguments do not fit in any definitions of a valid argument , nonetheless lets scrutinize the article and show Agniveer his lack of Knowledge and understanding of Truth.

Firstly, Mr.Agniveer has hardly provided any well referenced quotes as most polemics try to and do, hence its very discomforting in replying to his vague so-called arguments against Islam.

As for Point 1 raised by Agniveer that Translation of Meaning of the Quran is here –

(Remember) when you (Muhammad [sal-Allâhu ‘alayhi wa sallam]) said to the believers, “Is it not enough for you that your Lord (Allâh) should help you with three thousand angels sent down?” -[3:124]

So what does it prove? I challenge Agniveer to prove , that angels do not exits scienctifically. Can he? So is this an argument?

As of point 2 then I think Agniveer has not read the verse properly, I would recommend Agniveer to go and re-read the verse , then try fool around. The verses Agniveer points out is –

“The angels and the Rûh [Jibrâîl (Gabriel)] ascend to Him in a Day the measure whereof is fifty thousand years” -[70:4]

And they say: “When we are (dead and become) lost in the earth, shall we indeed be created anew?” Nay, but they deny the Meeting with their Lord! [32:10]

Firstly let me show our readers the arrogance and Ignorance of Agniveer which in turn show his lack of knowledge about Islam.

Agniveer writes “. Angels and Souls climb up to him in 50000 years. (Maarij 4). Another ayat says the time is 1000 years (Sajda 5) and Mullahs fight on which is right.”

The verse clearly says Angels and Rûh clearly referring to Jibrail and not Souls as Agniveer claims.Secondly, the other ayat which he talks of nowhere states anything related to 10000 years ! The verse of Surah Sajdah clearly states about the resurrection of Humans and the meeting with out Lord the Sole Creator.

And the angels will be on its sides, and eight angels will, that Day, bear the Throne of your Lord above them. [69:17]

The verse clearly talks of eight angels who will bear the Throne of Allah Azz wa Jall, but as the claim of Agniveer nowhere does the Ayat talk of goat like faces, this just another deception of the falsehood followers.

Agniveer wrote –

There are angels of death who shall torture the Kafirs in Hell!

Al-Hamdulilah , the Most Merciful is All-Just. I would like Mr.Agniveer to give appropriate refernces to his quotes which he hasn’t done.Can we have the Refernce please.Also the Kaafirs (Unbeliever, or non-muslims) are those who have rejected the Truth, and forsaked the Truth, thus to destroy this falsehood and to make Truth Prevail Allah Azz wa Jall Promises to Punish Kaafirs in Hell.

Agniveer wrote –

Thus Angels are Allah’s agents who work for Him for tasks that He cannot himself do! Or else, why would an all-powerful Allah need mediators for petty things.

Lack of understanding of Islam leads people to such conclusions! What logic and ratonality is it to claim that the Creator cannot do a Task hence he created the Creation! If the Allah Azz wa Jall can create the Angels then , how is it that he cannot do the work which the Angels can do! Indeed Allah Azz wa Jall is the All-Powefull the Most Powefull. Only a man with no sense can claim so.

Conclusively, I would like to bring into attention that Agniveer has just not been to prove anything here! I would like to challenge Agniveer to firstly prove it Scientifically that Angels do not exist as he is trying to show.Secondly I would like Agniveer to be exact and precise in quoting Islamic references which he hasn’t been.

Agniveer Wrote –

There is a lot of literature on Science in Islam on sites like Faith Freedom and Islam Watch.Let me just present a few brief snippets that explain all. They say that a smart person can judge presence of fire from smoke itself.

Well, so this article is a copy-paste from Sina and other quacks websites! See the Intelligent copy-paster.

Agniveer wrote –

a. Surate Bakar 22 – Allah made earth as bed and sky as roof for you!

Let me quote the Correct Translation as Agniveer is frightened to as this will expose his fraud.

Who has made the earth a resting place for you, and the sky as a canopy, and sent down water (rain) from the sky and brought forth therewith fruits as a provision for you. Then do not set up rivals to Allâh (in worship) while you know (that He Alone has the right to be worshipped). [2.22]

Well, the Quran is correct about earth being a resting place .

Inshaa’Allah the post will be continued later.I am looking forward for contributions by brothers and Sisters here.

This article you copy pasted does more damage to Islam than the original article posted by Agniveer. Lolz !

let me quickly show you how logically deprived and scripturally ignorant the author of that rebuttal is

point 1) Can he scientifically prove that Muslims will not go to hell? Can he? point 2) The author foolishly admits that it takes 50,000 man years to reach Allah. This means Allah is somewhere near the Moon..and not the creator of the Universe as in 50,000 years a man can at max reach the moon 🙁 point 3) The author again foolishly admits that Allah has some some weight by agreeing that 8 angels lift his throne (Kursi) ..this makes Allah formful and and not formless !!

stop posting such intellectualy deprived articles that do more damage to Islam then defend it.

1. None other than Vedas are immune to corruption. So they have to accepted only in lines of Vedas. 2. yes Puranas are grossly corrupted. They should not be taken seriously if they smell of casteism, gender bias or insult of our role models 3. Our view is that the Gita in its entirety is not what Krishna taught Arjun at battlefield. We believe that while Gita is a wonderful book, the actual sermon of Sri Krishna at battlefield must be much smaller – around chapter 2 and 3 of current Gita. There are variations in version of Gita available today and that used by Acharya Shankar for commentary.

According to Vedas, each one has to worship shapeless, omnipresent (everywhere present all the time) only one God, known as Eshwar. Yes, you are right God is loving, caring us, but God is not a person. He never forgives our misdeeds.

When that baby becomes 30-40 years old and kicked his parents out of his house, then parents do not forgive him, but file a case against the son for their old age expenditure. Thousands such cases you find in India. Then what about the revenge ?

You have a mis concept of God and forgiveness of sins. Please go through the chapter 7 of Satyarth Prakash by Swami Dayanand Saraswati available on this website in Hindi and English for more clarification.

I recommend that you read Bhagwad Gita. Lord Krishna has clearly said in a verse that He does not interfere in the Mechanism of the Karma-phal (fruits of action), there is a special mechanism for it. i.e. what ever we sow, so shall we reap. I will illustrate you with an example: In Mahabharata, (shanti-parv) Bhisma Pitamah who had to rest on the BED OF ARROWS was looking for the reasons. He asks Krishna– “O’ lord, I have seen through my 71 previous births but I could not find the appropriate reason for this STATE OF AFFAIRS.” Krishna replies, “O’ pitahmah, see your 72nd Birth in which you tortured a helpless animal by poking arrows piercing his body, you rejoiced at seeing him bleed to death. It is that SIN which now you are repaying.”

Now, imagine, when one of the greatest devotees of Lord Krishna, Bhisma, could not escape the FRUITS of his past life action, then what about normal mortals like us. BUT here in lies the glory of BHAKTI– Bhisma’s suffering opened the doors of heaven for him; his suffering became epitome of sacrifice, which to this day inspires. So don’t lose heart if today we are suffering, it is our past bad deeds; believe in God, his bhakti never goes waste, trust thy lord.

Dude we have to face the consequences of our actions, whether we do it ignorantly or knowingly. The Redemption concept itself is a Naastik concept.

The law of cause and effect governs everything. The law of cause and effect is inexorable and all-powerful. This whole world runs under this supreme law. All the other laws come under this law. The law of Karma is the law of cause and effect. God does not punish any one. Man reaps the fruits of his Karma. The law of cause and effect operates on him. He reaps a harvest of pleasure for his good actions. He suffers and experiences pain and disease, loss of property for his wicked actions.

You see Glorifying (Stuti) gives rise to love of the Supreme Being, reformation of one’s nature, character and attributes in accordance with the nature, attributes, and character of God. Prayer crates humility, courage, and obtains divine help. Communion results in union with the Great Being and in direct cognition of Him. —Satyartha Prakash: Chap 7: Page 132.

There may be some really deep essence in each Quranic verses and we applaud your efforts to discover them. But the conventional Islam is what these representatives of Islam present. So unless they clear their stand on these issues, Islam would be and should be perceived as a threat for entire humanity.

As for you, we would like you to unequivocally and very clearly condemn Zakir Naik and other mullahs for their dubious or fanatically dangerous stands on above issues, if indeed you believe that the actual message of Quran is something else. We would like you to at least openly declare that YOU AGREE to the points (a to j) in the article in totality.

Start alone to set right examples in lines of Muhammad, and Inshallah the world would follow you soon.

We want the good Muslims to start setting the good precedences so that there is no more the need for Satyagni and the likes to focus on Islam analysis.

We keenly await you clear statement on these issues with your personal details to showcase what a true Muslim is like. If you do not come out clear on this, world would perceive it as Taqiah or extension of what the Mullah in second video of the article is stating.

These are only my views and standpoints on Islam and ppl who find it as fault may claim for the same…

Q1: It is not necessary that all non-Muslims, regardless of their good deeds, will burn in Hell forever. A1: As everyone knows…GOD is just to everyone…Quran is saying…if one come to know about GOD as one and turn their faces will be sent to hell forever…Even there is a hadith…”Anyone who believes GOD as one (but to make sure that GOD as GOD…not in the idol forms or human forms) will go to heaven…”…if he is not aware of that…its about to GOD to decide on that…we cannot judge anything…HE knows better than us…

Q2: It is not necessary that a criminal would go to Heaven simply because he surrenders to Quran and Islam and says a ‘sorry’!. So all those terrorists who kill, rape or loot in name of Islam would go to Hell and should be openly condemned by Muslims regardless of their religion. A2: All you will earn is what you do here…!!! Hence anyone who kills innocent will be punished…but defense mechanism is always allowed to protect their society from evil…applicable for non-believers and believers also…

Q3: A woman is not bereft of intelligence or half-intelligent compared to men as claimed in several verses of Quran/ Hadiths. Allah allows women the same social, legal and political opportunities in life that He endows to men. A3: Women are considered as gift from GOD to men…they are always given more rights than men…thats the reason in one of the Hadith Umar complains to Mohammed…”In our city Women would not speak any words opposing men…but now the trend is changed and women are speaking more here…”. This happened after Islam was established as a religion and it had its own land.

Q4: The concept of Jazia tax on non-Muslims is disgusting. Social, political and criminal regulations should be same for everyone regardless of religion. A4: As I have already stated, Jazia is for non-believers and Jakaat is for muslims….hence it is equally divided for the welfare of the society…

Q5: The English translations of Quran by likes of Yusuf Ali, Pickthall, Dawood; Tafseers of Sahih International, Jalalyn; Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim as published by Islamic publishers and websites suffer from discrepancies and DO NOT correctly represent Islam. A5: Thats why Quran [43:3] says…”We have made it an Arabic reading text so that perhaps you may understand”…pls verify with Arabic known person if you have concept issues in other translations…

Q6: The Sahih (True) Hadiths (sayings of Muhammad) which talk of rape of war victims, or killing children and other disgusting things (refer Zakir Naik claims Islam – The ONLY Practical Religion of World! and Practical Islam – Science of Hygiene ) are wrong and NOT part of Islam. A6: It is easy to identify a hadith…If it opposes Quran…leave it…if it is in the words of Quran…pls accept it…if Zakir says within the context of Quran,..accept it…or else leave it…GOD knows much better than him…and everyone knows a drop and not an ocean…!!!!

Q7: A Muslim who could not find Islam addressing his questions and converts to another religion does not require to be killed for apostasy as per Islamic laws, even if he propagates his new religion. Those who KILL apostates or justify their killing in Islamic state are greatest criminals. A7: Whoever kills innocent….will be a criminal before GOD…either a non-believer or a believer…

Q8: All those Muslim rulers like Babur who admit in their own biography of indulging into pedophilia, homosexuality, cutting thousands of head, narcotics and keeping harem of women are not actually Muslims but disgrace in name of Islam. A8: A7 is the answer for Q8

Q9: All those clerics, organizations and countries that call for constant war against non-Muslims are against Islam and criminals. A9: Let them come…let us see…In INDIA it is not possible…bcoz we are already a secular nation…we will make them stand on their back…by GOD’s grace…

Q10: Non-Muslims should have the same rights to propagate their beliefs in Islamic countries, (so far the beliefs are not criminal, immoral and violent) as Muslims have the right to propagate Islam in non-Islamic countries. But if Muslims believe that it is against Islam to allow preaching of any other religion in Islamic countries, then they should also stop propagating Islam in other countries. A10: We cannot do anything on this…since it is their nation and they can do anything…we should not go beyond our limits….

There may be some really deep essence in each Quranic verses and we applaud your efforts to discover them. But the conventional Islam is what these representatives of Islam present. So unless they clear their stand on these issues, Islam would be and should be perceived as a threat for entire humanity.

As for you, we would like you to unequivocally and very clearly condemn Zakir Naik and other mullahs for their dubious or fanatically dangerous stands on above issues, if indeed you believe that the actual message of Quran is something else. We would like you to at least openly declare that YOU AGREE to the points (a to j) in the article in totality.

Start alone to set right examples in lines of Muhammad, and Inshallah the world would follow you soon.

We want the good Muslims to start setting the good precedences so that there is no more the need for Agniveer and the likes to focus on Islam analysis.

We keenly await you clear statement on these issues with your personal details to showcase what a true Muslim is like. If you do not come out clear on this, world would perceive it as Taqiah or extension of what the Mullah in second video of the article is stating.

These are only my views and standpoints on Islam and ppl who find it as fault may claim for the same……

Q1: It is not necessary that all non-Muslims, regardless of their good deeds, will burn in Hell forever. A1: As everyone knows…GOD is just to everyone…Quran is saying…if one come to know about GOD as one and turn their faces will be sent to hell forever…Even there is a hadith…”Anyone who believes GOD as one (but to make sure that GOD as GOD…not in the idol forms or human forms) will go to heaven…”…if he is not aware of that…its about to GOD to decide on that…we cannot judge anything…HE knows better than us…..

Q2: It is not necessary that a criminal would go to Heaven simply because he surrenders to Quran and Islam and says a ‘sorry’!. So all those terrorists who kill, rape or loot in name of Islam would go to Hell and should be openly condemned by Muslims regardless of their religion. A2: All you will earn is what you do here…!!! Hence anyone who kills innocent will be punished…but defense mechanism is always allowed to protect their society from evil…applicable for non-believers and believers also……

Q3: A woman is not bereft of intelligence or half-intelligent compared to men as claimed in several verses of Quran/ Hadiths. Allah allows women the same social, legal and political opportunities in life that He endows to men. A3: Women are considered as gift from GOD to men…they are always given more rights than men…thats the reason in one of the Hadith Umar complains to Mohammed…”In our city Women would not speak any words opposing men…but now the trend is changed and women are speaking more here…”. This happened after Islam was established as a religion and it had its own land.

Q4: The concept of Jazia tax on non-Muslims is disgusting. Social, political and criminal regulations should be same for everyone regardless of religion. A4: As I have already stated, Jazia is for non-believers and Jakaat is for muslims….hence it is equally divided for the welfare of the society…

Q5: The English translations of Quran by likes of Yusuf Ali, Pickthall, Dawood; Tafseers of Sahih International, Jalalyn; Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim as published by Islamic publishers and websites suffer from discrepancies and DO NOT correctly represent Islam. A5: Thats why Quran [43:3] says…”We have made it an Arabic reading text so that perhaps you may understand”…pls verify with Arabic known person if you have concept issues in other translations…

Q6: The Sahih (True) Hadiths (sayings of Muhammad) which talk of rape of war victims, or killing children and other disgusting things (refer Zakir Naik claims Islam – The ONLY Practical Religion of World! and Practical Islam – Science of Hygiene ) are wrong and NOT part of Islam. A6: It is easy to identify a hadith…If it opposes Quran…leave it…if it is in the words of Quran…pls accept it…if Zakir says within the context of Quran,..accept it…or else leave it…GOD knows much better than him…and everyone knows a drop and not an ocean…!!!!

Q7: A Muslim who could not find Islam addressing his questions and converts to another religion does not require to be killed for apostasy as per Islamic laws, even if he propagates his new religion. Those who KILL apostates or justify their killing in Islamic state are greatest criminals. A7: Whoever kills innocent….will be a criminal before GOD…either a non-believer or a believer…

Q8: All those Muslim rulers like Babur who admit in their own biography of indulging into pedophilia, homosexuality, cutting thousands of head, narcotics and keeping harem of women are not actually Muslims but disgrace in name of Islam. A8: A7 is the answer for Q8

Q9: All those clerics, organizations and countries that call for constant war against non-Muslims are against Islam and criminals. A9: Let them come…let us see…In INDIA it is not possible…bcoz we are already a secular nation…we will make them stand on their back…by GOD’s grace…

Q10: Non-Muslims should have the same rights to propagate their beliefs in Islamic countries, (so far the beliefs are not criminal, immoral and violent) as Muslims have the right to propagate Islam in non-Islamic countries. But if Muslims believe that it is against Islam to allow preaching of any other religion in Islamic countries, then they should also stop propagating Islam in other countries. A10: We cannot do anything on this…since it is their nation and they can do anything…we should not go beyond our limits….

@SSS Thanks Brother for clarifying your views. So here is what I conclude from your reply

1. Believing in Muhammad, angels, last day, heaven and hell are not necessary to be a Muslim. And since its God, who is to decide about the idol worshippers, all those like Zakir Naik, who tag idol worshippers as Mushrik and thus claim their journey to hell are actually doing Shirk by judging what God alone can judge. So why question Agniveer first, why not Mushrik Zakir Naik?

2. So you accept that Allah will not forgive sins, be it from Muslim or Non Muslim. And thus all the verses of Quran which talk about forgiveness are false.

3. Please comment on the hadith given in corresponding link, in which women are accorded inferior status and not only that, but women are also compared with pigs and dogs. Please dont analyze any verse which suits you. Try to comment on those which are questioned.

4. Why is it not same for both, this was the question!

5. How would one know that the translation, he/she is reading has concept issues unless he/she knows Arabic already? And where does the verse say- “verify with Arabic known person”? Rather, according to the verse, Quran is only for Arabs! It was made clear to you in previous comments.

6. So you agree that there are many “Galat” Hadith in Sahih Hadith too. Thanks for accepting that brother. And please condemn those like Zakir and Darul Uloom, who say that belief in Sahih Hadith is equally important to get Jannah.

And when everybody knows a drop, why Zakir and Brother SSS start questioning others and preaching their beliefs as if they are ocean?

7. Please announce openly that Zakir and co will be punished by Allah for their terrorist ideology to kill innocents (apostates). And do you agree that Zakir Naik should be banned and punished for his terrorist activities like threatening innocents as seen in the video? At least he deserves condemnation from a person like you, who has been questioning Agniveer only because of his intellectual differences with Agniveer. Why is not, questioning Zakir Naik in your priority when he is a potential threat to humanity (as accepted by you also) and thus should come before Agniveer in your list?

8. So you agree that all those who demand mosque in the name of killer, pedophile, gay drinker Babur should be condemned?

9. This is India’s biggest misfortune that it is a so called secular nation. It was secular and that is why its territory has been shrunk by half in last few hundred years. But anyway, I appreciate your love for your motherland.

10. Is anyone asking you to go to Saudi or Pakistan and get this restriction off? We just asked for your opinion, which is within your limits, I guess!

If you want I will cut and paste my post wherever you want. I am not afraid to speak the truth. When you people can openly run a site which is full of lies and hatred then why should I worry for speaking the truth?

There are 3 kind of unbelievers. First who don’t know anything at all about Islam, second those who know but they won’t accept Islam because they have been practicing what their forefathers were doing. Third those who didn’t accept Islam and fought against those who were preaching. They killed the Muslims and tried every way to stop Islam from spreading. It is the third kind of people whom Allah has ordained to fight and not against the first two. Even you know this brother but as I said earlier you have to run your shop. Apply some common sense. If all the disbelievers are to be killed then who will be there to accept Islam?

Please quote the exact number of sahih Bukhari. What is b1n142.

When Vedas say bura karne walo ka na ghar rahe na balak then you try to give all sorts of explanation and translations.

A king is a human being when you can kill or punish a person for not following him then whats wrong in punishment if someone fights against those who are preaching for God?

So you mean to say you treat transgressors as superiors? Don’t give such foolish explanation. Why are you collecting “KAR” from them? According to you they are transgressors. Who will decide who is a transgressor? Is the king always right? If you kill for your selfish motives then it is right.

Lower caste women are raped killed and paraded naked. What you have to say about that? It is because “Out of the mouth brahma was born, of both arms rajanya was made, out of the thigs vaisya was made, from his feet sudra was produced.

@Tanveer Brother, First of all please dont intervene between the two. You are welcome to any other philosophical discussion to give your views but not here where we want to differentiate between terrorists and good Muslims. You have been requested to give your views on the ten points raised in the article seperately. Please do it first and then I will reply. Readers can read the conversation between me and Brother Tanveer on http://agniveer.com/1615/muhammad-muslim/ and decide who is on truth and who is lying. Our brother Tanveer expect from us “Book 1 and hadith 142” of Sahih Muslim instead of “b1n142” but when it comes to Vedas, he does not give even name of Veda and Mantra number and expects our response!

Why are you so afraid in saying that good non Muslims will also go to Jannat and apostates do have right to live and they should not be killed just because they want to preach their religion. Why are you hell bent in condemning Agniveer just because he has philosophical differences with you and defending terrorist Zakir Naik who threatens apostates openly?

Again requesting you, please read the article carefully and then reply.

@SSS It was never Agniveer vs SSS. Agniveer admin requested you to be more clear on some issues, but instead of doing that, you started giving answers to the questions which were never asked! And please read the reason why I asked Tanveer not to intervene in this particular discussion.

1. When you cant condemn Zakir for his terrorist views, why do you come again and again asking questions to Agniveer? Has Agniveer ever threatened anyone that he/she should be killed if he/she leaves his Dharm? Why is not terrorist Zakir in your priority above than Agniveer?

2,3,4,5,6. Please try to answer what was asked or simply say that you cant answer.

7. You also have right to condemn the terrorists like Zakir! Why dont you do that?

8. Was it asked?

9. Yes, this is the biggest fortune for the terrorists like Zakir Naik, Ajmal Kasab, and Afzal, and their supporters that they have not been executed yet.

10. Anyway, your opinion cant do anything to Agniveer too, then why giving here your free opinions? Shame on you SSS, how shamelessly you defended your coward Arab masters, who dont have guts to let preachers from other religions preach their religion in Saudi and other countries.

What I can say is that SSS, you have spent hours here for more than a month just to oppose Agniveer, but you could not write even a single word against terrorist Zakir Naik and those terrorist states like Saudi where non Muslims cant preach their religion. I am now convinced that you are a drop of venom just like terrorists Zakir Naik and Ajmal Kasab, and Islam is the ocean.

I cannot say who will go to heaven or hell. It is Allah to decide who will go to heaven or who will go to hell. Even if a person is praying 5 times and doing good deeds then too I cannot say he will go to heaven similarly I cannot say that all non Muslims will go to hell. I am not the judge it is for Allah to decide. Is Zakir Naik a terrorist who is on the run?

Your are right there is nothing to answer because it is mentioned in vedas. Had it been in Quran you would have lots of answers with links. Anyway its a good technique to avoid giving answers by simply asking what about the ten points.

Mr.Indian Agnostic. Quran is not hell bent on sending non muslims to hell. It is you people who say so.It is only the transgressors that will be sent to hell. Read the verse “chapter no.7 verse no.4&5 “How many a township we have destroyed! Our scource fell upon them at night, or when they were taking midday rest. and when our scourage fell upon them ther only cry was “we are indeed transgressors”.

Brother SSS I asked about the verse and not your self made concept! Verse says Quran is in Arabic so that people can understand. Unfortunately it does not say that you will understand Quran if you read it in Arabic!

It’s none other than the Arabic quran that makes it amply clear the Quran was revealed for the Arabs :

❶ It specififies the township for whom it was revealed (Makkah and villages around) at more places than one in the Quran

❴Quran 42:7 وَكَذَلِكَ أَوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ قُرْآناً عَرَبِيّاً لِّتُنذِرَ أُمَّ الْقُرَى وَمَنْ حَوْلَهَا وَتُنذِرَ يَوْمَ الْجَمْعِ لَا رَيْبَ فِيهِ فَرِيقٌ فِي الْجَنَّةِ وَفَرِيقٌ فِي السَّعِيرِ And thus have We revealed to you an ARABIC Quran, THAT YOU MAY WARN THE MOTHER CITY(Makka) and those around it, and that you may give warning of the day of gathering together wherein is no doubt; a party shall be in the garden and (another) party in the burning fire❵

❴Quran 6:92 وَهَـذَا كِتَابٌ أَنزَلْنَاهُ مُبَارَكٌ مُّصَدِّقُ الَّذِي بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ وَلِتُنذِرَ أُمَّ الْقُرَى وَمَنْ حَوْلَهَا وَالَّذِينَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِالآخِرَةِ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِهِ وَهُمْ عَلَى صَلاَتِهِمْ يُحَافِظُونَ And this is a blessed Scripture which We have revealed, confirming that which (was revealed) before it, that thou mayst warn the MOTHER OF VILLAGES and those around her. Those who believe in the Hereafter believe herein, and they are careful of their worship❵

❷It clearly states that this religion is specifically for the arabs (who assume themselves as descendants of Ishmael) who did not have a messenger like the Jews or Christians before Muhammad..again at more places than one

❴Quran 32:3 أَمْ يَقُولُونَ افْتَرَاهُ بَلْ هُوَ الْحَقُّ مِن رَّبِّكَ لِتُنذِرَ قَوْماً مَّا أَتَاهُم مِّن نَّذِيرٍ مِّن قَبْلِكَ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَهْتَدُونَ Or do they say: He has forged it? Nay! it is the truth from your Lord that you may warn a people TO WHOM NO WARNER HAS COME BEFORE YOU, that they may follow the right direction.❵

I don’t understand why you deny what is written in the Quran in no ambiguous terms ! ..that too in arabic !!

Whatever you have given is correct…Even whoever reads this, will get the same impression…and during the lifetime of Mohammed…Arabs would have been proud to read this…!!! But as everyone knows, if a book is revealed to the whole world…why these verses are there…???

A very easy answer is…The verses addresses the following basic questions wihch arise in our mind even for muslims also… 1. Why Quran was revealed in arabic language…? 2. Why revelations were given to Mohammed from Arab family…?

Since there is a society where the messenger was not sent to their forefathers…and the society belong to the mother town…!!!….revelation was brought to them in Arabic language so that they can get the guidance…and then it should be spread to the entire society of the world…!!!

This verse itself has a lot of meaning in it…which tells that we need to understand the life of Arabs during the Quran revelation…so that we can better understand the essence of Quran…

There are also verses from Quran which address like…

Quran [27:76] “Verily this Qur’an doth explain to the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL most of the matters in which they disagree.”

Quran [7:26] “O ye CHILDREN OF ADAM! We have bestowed raiment upon you to cover your shame, as well as to be an adornment to you. But the raiment of righteousness,- that is the best. Such are among the Signs of God, that they may receive admonition!”

As i said on other posts simply copying & pasting links and explanations does not convince me anything. If you want learn something read with clear heart by yourself. Do not depend on internet to answer your questions.simple

Peace Are you independent of internet to comment here? Give us the verses which say that Jihad is struggle for justice and truth and not killing Kafirs with sword, Jakat means help to non muslims, Roza is to save food & water for everyone and for good health etc.

Your comments merely explain that you even dont rely on Quran, forget about the links! Provide the verses, its my challenge.

You did not tell me, when Allah has two hands, how he can be shapeless? He sits on throne then how is he omnipresent? Belief in him alone is not sufficient to get Jannat then how is He perfect and complete?

Please refer to the following verse from Holy Quran, Chapter Al Anbiya (21:107) “We sent thee not, but as a mercy for all creatures.” This clearly implies that the revelations to Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) were not restricted to any one community or location. And then, in what language were the Vedas revealed, Sanskrit? Even in India itself, there is only a miniscule population that understands Sanskrit. So according to your above argument, do you concede that Vedas were only for revealed for this minimum Sanskrit speaking population, because majority of mankind cannot understand Sanskrit. If yes, then you must ask Satyagni to stop propagating Vedas to the general public at large. Hope this discussion ‘Quran being revealed only to Arabs’ is concluded now with the understanding that Holy Quran is for all those who wish to follow it, be it Arabs or Non-Arabs.

Please refer to the following verse from Holy Quran, Chapter Al Anbiya (21:107) “We sent thee not, but as a mercy for all creatures.” This clearly implies that the revelations to Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) were not restricted to any one community or location. And then, in what language were the Vedas revealed, Sanskrit? Even in India itself, there is only a miniscule population that understands Sanskrit. So according to your above argument, do you concede that Vedas were only revealed for this minimum Sanskrit speaking population, because majority of mankind cannot understand Sanskrit. If yes, then you must ask Agniveer to stop propagating Vedas to the general public at large. Hope this discussion ‘Quran being revealed only to Arabs’ is concluded now with the understanding that Holy Quran is for all those who wish to follow it, be it Arabs or Non-Arabs.

@True Indian What about the five verses given by Brother Indian Agnostic and me indicating that Quran was sent for Arabs only? If you think [21:107] talks otherwise, it simply proves contradiction in Quran than anything else.

My above argument was (exclusively for Muslim friends) based on the verse of Quran which says that Quran is in Arabic so that the people can understand! Vedas never say that its language is Sanskrit so that people can understand! In fact Vedas are those which taught people how to speak! Vedas were revealed at the inception of humans on earth. So there was one language, Sanskrit for all!

This discussion can now be concluded with the understanding that Quran has contradictions and it is not for all non Arabs. Also, logic based on Quran are not universal!

And the verse 21:109 is an eye opener …it again tells us about how Quran’s God is hell bent on pitching humans against humans

But if they (disbelievers, idolaters, Jews, Christians, polytheists, etc.) turn away (from Islâmic Monotheism) say (to them O Muhammad SAW): “I give you a notice (of war as) to be known to us all alike. And I know not whether that which you are promised (i.e. the torment or the Day of Resurrection) is near or far.”

@True Indian And Brother, I forgot to mention most important thing. Please give your views on ten points given in the article. Its important to distinguish between true Muslims and the supporters of terrorist Zakir Naik. Hope you will do it soon.

Here is my opinion on the ten points. Please understand that I am not a scholar on Islam. I am trying to reply based on my trivial learning & knowledge of Islam. But let me be honest, I somehow get a feeling that these ten points you have raised are created with the intention of scoring a point & cornering Muslims & not with the genuine purpose of Identifying terrorists. The reason why I’m here is to convey the truth to the best of my abilitites. I always welcome healthy discussions & don’t intend to win any arguments. Because on the day of Judgement when our Creator asks me of my duty, I would like you to bear witness to that. And God Almighty knows best.

So Islam will not be perceived as a threat if, the clerics and experts state that: 1. It is not necessary that all non-Muslims, regardless of their good deeds, will burn in Hell forever. – A. My views to this are- “not necessarily all non-Muslims shall go to hell. Because in several places in Holy Quran, God Almighty states that He is just, He is most merciful & He loves to forgive His creations. In my opinion, it is not justice to condemn someone without guiding him / her in the first place. But I also believe that those who receive the right guidance with an ability to analyse & comprehend that, but deliberately choose to reject it after properly understanding the truth shall definitely go to hell. Not all those who are ignorant of the truth. And God Almighty knows best.

2. It is not necessary that a criminal would go to Heaven simply because he surrenders to Quran and Islam and says a ‘sorry’!. So all those terrorists who kill, rape or loot in name of Islam would go to Hell and should be openly condemned by Muslims regardless of their religion. (Refer Islamic Jehad and following video: )- A. All Muslims believe in & fear the day of judgement. This belief alone is sufficient to convey that Muslims do not believe in a green channel to heaven. I am a Muslim & I subscribe to this belief. We know that we are responsible to each & every deed we commit & thoughts that occur and also that we have to answer Our Creator. We also know that God Almighty does not like mischief mongers & we pray to God Almighty that we do not become one of those (mischief mongers). And God Almighty knows best.

3. A woman is not bereft of intelligence or half-intelligent compared to men as claimed in several verses of Quran/ Hadiths. Allah allows women the same social, legal and political opportunities in life that He endows to men. A. I have never read or learned anywhere that God Almighty has expressed Himself to be partial to any one gender. So I believe there is no reason for this wrong inference of yours. In fact, I’ve learned that in Islam, a woman has a slightly upper hand over men for the following reasons: • Mans has to provide for an woman (food, clothing, shelter etc) & not vice-versa • Man is responsible for her protection • Husband has to pay dower to his woman & NOT vice-versa • Woman is entitled to the possessions & property of her husband • Husband is not entitled to the possessions or property of his wife unless she gives him willingly And God Almighty knows best.

4. The concept of Jazia tax on non-Muslims is disgusting. Social, political and criminal regulations should be same for everyone regardless of religion. same for everyone regardless of religion. A. I do not think that is disgusting. It depends on how you want to perceive & portray that. Jaziya was levied on the non-Muslims, no doubt. But then, Muslims are required to pay Zakath (wealth tax- 2.5% of their annual savings). We all agree that taxes are levied for the welfare of the state. What’s so disgusting about this? Additionally all able bodied Muslim men are required to serve in the national army, while this is NOT enforced on the non-Muslims. Now coming to the second part of this question, each country has its own social & political regulations. It is not proper to interfere in the affairs of other countries. Let me ask you for eg. Will it be alright to expect Spain or Brazil to declare national holiday for Diwali? Regarding criminal regulations, there is no disparity in Islamic laws between Muslims & non-Muslims. And God Almighty knows best.

5. The English translations of Quran by likes of Yusuf Ali, Pickthall, Dawood; Tafseers of Sahih International, Jalalyn; Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim as published by Islamic publishers and websites suffer from discrepancies and DO NOT correctly represent Islam. A. It would require a scholar to answer this & I am not one. I think it is not proper of you also to pose this query to a common man, if you are genuinely seeking a clarification on this. And God Almighty knows best.

6. The Sahih (True) Hadiths (sayings of Muhammad) which talk of rape of war victims, or killing children and other disgusting things (refer Zakir Naik claims Islam – The ONLY Practical Religion of World! and Practical Islam – Science of Hygiene ) are wrong and NOT part of Islam. A. Any Hadith that does not complement the teachings of Holy Quran is NOT ‘Sahih’. A Sahih hadith is identified by its chain of narrators who are authentic & are known to have never spoken or indulged in anything contrary to truth. You talk about rape of war victims, killing of children etc. Islam NEVER EVER allows this. It is hard for me to believe you are ignorantly posting these comments. So I am left to know, it is with malicious intentions that you attach to Islam, things that are not part of it. You are fancying things your own way to misguide people. And God Almighty knows best.

7. A Muslim who could not find Islam addressing his questions and converts to another religion does not require to be killed for apostasy as per Islamic laws, even if he propagates his new religion. Those who KILL apostates or justify their killing in Islamic state are greatest criminals. (Refer Zakir Naik – the mentor of terrorists) A. Has there been any record of an apostate being killed ONLY FOR THE REASON OF LEAVING ISLAM during the times of Prophet Mohammed (PBUH). Islam has always emphasized that religion cannot be forced on anyone. A beautiful narration about this is given in Chapter Al Kafirun (106:1-6) Say: O ye that reject Faith! (1) I worship not that which ye worship, (2) Nor will ye worship that which I worship. (3)And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, (4) Nor will ye worship that which I worship. (5) To you be your Way, and to me mine. (6) And God Almighty knows best.

8. All those Muslim rulers like Babur who admit in their own biography of indulging into pedophilia, homosexuality, cutting thousands of head, narcotics and keeping harem of women are not actually Muslims but disgrace in name of Islam. (Refer Babri Masjid demolition – Symbol of Hindu-Muslim unity) A. It is not your duty or mine to judge who is a Muslim & who is not. Let’s leave that to God Almighty. As far as the likes of Babur & others are concerned, what is their significance in Holy Quran & the traditions of Prophet Muhammed (PBUH). Anyone or anything that goes against the teachings of Holy Quran & Sahih Hadiths have to be abandoned. And killing of innocents & immorality are grave sins in Islam. And God Almighty knows best.

9. All those clerics, organizations and countries that call for constant war against non-Muslims are against Islam and criminals. For example refer to following fatwa issued from Saudi Arabia: A. Islam teaches against unjust wars & hardship on people. Holy Quran narrates, (Chapter Al Baqra, 2:190-194) “Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you but DO NOT transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. (190) And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where THEY HAVE TURNED YOU OUT; for TUMULT AND OPPRESSION ARE WORSE THAN SLAUGHTER; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. (191) But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful. (192) And fight them on UNTIL THERE IS NO MORE TUMULT OR OPPRESSION and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression. (193) The prohibited month―for the prohibited month―and so for all things prohibited there is the law of equality. If then anyone transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear Allah and know that Allah IS WITH THOSE WHOLE WHO RESTRAIN THEMSELVES. (194)” Again in the same chapter, (2:217), “They ask thee concerning fighting in the Prohibited Month. Say: “Fighting therein is a grave (offence); but graver is it in the sight of Allah to prevent access to the path of Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and drive out its members. Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can. And if any of you turn back from their faith and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter; they will be Companions of the Fire and will abide therein” Now, what do you learn from the above verses (please pay attention to the words in CAPITAL LETTERS). That Islam recognizes unjust fighting as a grave sin. Islam ALLOWS fighting only when one is offended or oppressed (No First Attack Policy), AND ONLY UPTO the extent that oppression has ceased. Beyond that FIGHTING IS NOT ALLOWED. Islam also encourages one to practise restraint (Ahimsa) by stating “Allah IS WITH THOSE WHOLE WHO RESTRAIN THEMSELVES. (194)” And God Almighty knows best.

10. Non-Muslims should have the same rights to propagate their beliefs in Islamic countries, (so far the beliefs are not criminal, immoral and violent) as Muslims have the right to propagate Islam in non-Islamic countries. But if Muslims believe that it is against Islam to allow preaching of any other religion in Islamic countries, then they should also stop propagating Islam in other countries. A. I do not know under what logic you are raising this question. Islamic countries proclaim (no hiding) that they follow Islamic religion. Than is it modest of you to ask them to allow other religions. In the same breadth let me ask you, is it modest to ask the Government of Nepal (World’s Only Hindu Nation) to allow propagation of Islam? And God Almighty knows best.

@True Indian 1. What about someone, who could not accept Islam true from his heart? If a Muslim realizes genuinely that Islam is not correct then does he have liberty to leave it? And this fact can only be known to Allah that whether someone is cheating or not, then why does Islam order to kill the apostates? How will Muslims know that someone who has left Islam was actually cheating Allah?

2. So you accept that Allah will not forgive the sins of Muslims?

3. So first read those verses and hadith in which women are stated as inferior. Please go through the link in the article for the same.

4. Jaziya is the sign of inferiority of its payers as it has been told as the symbol of subdued non Muslims in the Islamic rule. See the related verse in Quran.

5. Please read the next para to get clear picture of this question.

6. What about the verses and hadith given in the link provided in the article?

7. Should not then you condemn Zakir Naik and other terrorist Mullahs who justify apostate killing?

8. So why not Muslims leave it to Allah that who is Muslim and who is not? How do Muslims know that if someone is a Muslim or a Kafir? Why Muslims do Dawah? Why apostate is to be killed? Why dont you call Babur and Zakir Naik terrorists?

9. Verses [2:190,191,192] were canceled by the VERSE OF SWORD which says- “But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem [of war]; but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oftforgiving, Most Merciful”

Did you notice words in CAPITAL LETTERS?

10. Can a robber be said as noble just because he robs after declaration that he will rob? Will it be OK if some day Hindus of India stand and declare India a Hindu Rashtra and then prohibit preaching of Islam? And what if they invade Muslim countries, conquer those and convert Muslims by swords or Ayat e Saif (verse of sword)?

How should I treat your reply? Consider it as ignorance or practice of Taqiyyah; which one!

Because whatever you wrote is pure b******t. If translations of Pickthall and Yusuf Ali are wrong, can you suggest an accurate translation?

Questioning these translations is the first step in admitting the guilt. It becomes easy to evade and escape. Typical Islamic mentality, I guess. So, should we go to Arabic version of Koran? By this, you are literally condemning 70% of Muslims in the world as they are not Arabic.

All those translations are done by pious Muslims. They are a white wash; they conceal many things with a purpose like Ali adding the word lightly in the verse which tells Husbands can beat wives. But you do not see this word in Arabic version.

Al-Azhar university has not objected to these translations and in fact it has approved all these translations including two Sahih’s and also reliance of traveler (Islamic Sharia Law).

Saudi Arabia approved the translation of Yusuf Ali. OIC has approved the the translation by Pickthall. Saudi Arabia has sponsored the translation of Noble Koran by Hilali and Mohammad Muhsin Khan.

Many Hadiths were removed from English version of Sahid Bukhari as they were found too damaging to the credibility of Islam.

What you people are trying to do is to keep Non Muslims in a false sense of security as others will keep on doing their duty, violent or non violent. You are part of Islamic extremism. There is nothing like Islamic extremism or Islamic radicalism, it is just pure Islam.

You are saying there is no compulsion in religion. Many Muslims quote 2:256 and you quoted Sura 109 probably out of your ignorance.

This chapter is from Meccan period. If it is teaching tolerance it is abrogated by verses like 2:193 (8:39), 9:005, 9:029, 48:28, 61:09 and 9:33, 9:123, 98:06-07 and many more.

You want to know what Maududi says with regard to this chapter? This is what he says for 109:06:

“That is, “My religion is entirely distinct and separate from your religion. I am not a worshipper of your gods and you are not worshippers of my God. I cannot worship your gods and you are not prepared to worship my God, Therefore, you and I can never follow and walk one and the same path together.” This is not a message of tolerance to the disbelievers, but a declaration of immunity, disgust with and dissociation from them as long as they are disbelievers. Its object is to disappoint them absolutely and finally that in the matter of religion the party of Allah’s Messenger and his followers would ever come to terms with them. This same declaration of immunity and expression of disgust has been made in the Makki Surahs revealed after this Surah successively.”

……….

“…..The fact is that Allah recognizes only two ways of life, the religion of Truth and the religion of falsehood; that is why He has declared: Lakum dine-kum wa liya din. And He has classified the people also into two groups, one group will go to Paradise and this consists of the believers, and the second group will go to Hell and this consists of the disbelievers collectively. And He has declared the two groups only as the potential opponents of each other: “These are the two parties who have disputed about their Lord.” (AI-Hajj: 19). That is, one group comprises all the disbelievers collectively and they are opposed to the believers … We do not admit that they are separate and distinct communities according to their beliefs, but as against the Muslims they all form one community. For the Muslims affirm faith in the apostleship of Muhammad (upon whom be Allah’s peace and blessings) and in the Qur’an and they refuse to affirm faith. For this very reason they have been declared to be unbelievers and are one community as opposed to the Muslims ……”.

before 1989, there was no problem in kashmir, there was peace and amity despite muslims being in majority. They were patriotic Indians. Then trouble started in 1989. According to YOUR definition, They were good muslims before 1989, and after that they are NOT muslims?

Even some Islamic critics say that verse 2:190 is defensive in nature. Lets quote this verse:

And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits. (2:190, Shakir).

What is this way of Allah? Ali and Pickthall use the phrase ‘in the cause of Allah’.

A man came to the Prophet and asked, “A man fights for war booty; another fights for fame and a third fights for showing off; which of them fights in Allah’s Cause?” The Prophet said, “He who fights that Allah’s Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights in Allah’s Cause.” (Bukhari, 4,52#65).

There are some more Hadith which say the same thing (Bukhari 4,53,355; Bukhari 4,52#43).

Now lets go back to the verse 2:190. It is telling Muslims to fight for Allah’s cause or in Allah’s way i.e. to make Islam superior over others. It is saying that the whole world must be ruled under Sharia law.

And if Non Muslims oppose this Islamic ambition, then Muslims should fight them. This is what this verse is saying. The primary force here is Islamic advance to create an Islamic society destroying others.

Do not transgress means, if Non Muslims convert or agree to pay Jizya, then they should be left. Otherwise, what?

This verse is one of many verses calling for warfare against Non Muslims.

The best answer to this verse come very fittingly in 2:193. The verse 8:39 also says the same thing. Lets see this from Noble Koran:

And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone). But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.) (2:193, Al-Hilali)

Mark the sentence ‘worship is for Allah alone’. This is the condition for ceasing of hostilities, which means very presence of disbelief in Islam is aggression on Muslims and Islam.

The Arabic word used here is Fitna; it also comes in 2:191 but with different meaning. Ali and Pickthall, in order to divert the attention, translate it as oppression or persecution (an attempt of white wash). But the original intended meaning can be inferred from Shakir’s when he writes the condition for ceasing hostilities ‘religion should be for Allah only’.

You are so ignorant that you even quoted 2:217. This verse is literally a testimony to Islamic fascism in Koran. Read the full verse from Noble Koran:

They ask you concerning fighting in the Sacred Months (i.e. 1st, 7th, 11th and 12th months of the Islâmic calendar). Say, “Fighting therein is a great (transgression) but a greater (transgression) with Allâh is to prevent mankind from following the Way of Allâh, to disbelieve in Him, to prevent access to Al-Masjid-al-Harâm (at Makkah), and to drive out its inhabitants, and Al-Fitnah is worse than killing. And they will never cease fighting you until they turn you back from your religion (Islâmic Monotheism) if they can. And whosoever of you turns back from his religion and dies as a disbeliever, then his deeds will be lost in this life and in the Hereafter, and they will be the dwellers of the Fire. They will abide therein forever.” (Al-Hilali, 2:217)

The context for this verse is Nakhla raid which I will not explain here for the sake of time. But you can read from here:

But what it is telling is that Non Muslims not believing in Islam is far greater crime than Muslims fighting and killing Non Muslims in the eyes of Allah.

This is what Ibn Kathir writes: “Since Jihad involves killing and shedding the blood of men, Allah indicated that these men are committing disbelief in Allah, associating with Him (in the worship) and hindering from His path, and this is a much greater evil and more disastrous than killing.”

@ Sri, All the verses you have quoted talk about aggression towards non-Muslims, no doubt. But you have nicely (deliberately) skipped the context in which these verses were revealed. These were revealed during war times. And these wars were imposed upon the believers. Muslims DID NOT start them. And what do you expect when one is attacked. The least is to defend oneself. These verses are only in line with this. Islam ALLOWS self defence in the event of oppression.

“For the verse 2:194, you will get the answer in 2:217, which you also quoted but completely skipped the main point.”

Here I am quoting below Yusuf Ali’s translation for your reference. The prohibited month―for the prohibited month―and so for all things prohibited there is the law of equality. If then anyone transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear Allah and know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves. (2:194).

They ask thee concerning fighting in the Prohibited Month. Say: “Fighting therein is a grave (offence); but graver is it in the sight of Allah to prevent access to the path of Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and drive out its members. Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can. And if any of you turn back from their faith and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter; they will be Companions of the Fire and will abide therein. (2:217)

I am asking you, what’s wrong in this? It clearly states “Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can”- Do you expect people to humbly lay down their lives when attacked. That would be foolish & impractical. Islam does not want people to be foolish & impractical. Islam only allows self defence.

“Quite a number of the people of the Book wish they could turn you (people) back to infidelity after ye have believed, from selfish envy, after the truth hath become manifest unto them; but forgive and overlook, till Allah accomplish His purpose; for Allah hath power over all things.” (2:109)

God Almighty has clearly revealed intentions of people like you here. But He still asks the believers to FORGIVE & OVERLOOK. “till Allah accomplish His purpose”- How? one may ask. You see that multitude of non-Muslims are realizing the truth in Islam & embracing it. This is how God Almighty accomplishes His task. But people like you will never realize / accept this because you DO NOT WANT TO. It calls for a clear conscience & hatred free heart to know The Truth. It’s ultimately your choice what you want to perceive as truth. But you bear responsibility for your decision.

@True Indian : I will try to show you what’s wrong (if you can see), when the Verse says “They” I presume it means non Muslims, and it clearly says that “They” will not accept Islam (assumption by Dialogue), here no effort is made by Allah to tell the believers to understand and analyze whether what “They” follow on logical standards (may be its better or at least as good) but behold, here comes next “ if believers turn on their faith or die in unbelief” their actions will lead no fruit and fire companions wait for the turned into “Them” and regular “Them” in Hell. So what is the option: either Kill or get killed? And the irony is the entire ware is based on the mere fact that “They” don’t believe in some idiosyncratic ideology. Either my way or Highway! Man just grow up out the vision impart for likes of Zakir Naik and see things for a birds view. Are people so dumb to draw conclusion form a passage/verse?

Let’s just assume that they were written in the war time. But after war is over why they are not being removed? While writing these verses writer didn’t thought that people may misinterpret these verses and can create trouble for the non-muslims in near future. Times are not the same always didn’t the writer realizes that?

You are talking about self-defence. Do you mean people who didn’t read quran are not aware of self-defence?

❷ Muhammad’s three options for the non-muslims whom they encounter in the suo moto holy war

Sahih Muslim Book 019, Number 4294: It has been reported from Sulaiman b. Buraid through his father that when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) appointed anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him to fear Allah and to be good to the Muslims who were with him. He would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war, do not embezzle the spoils; do not break your pledge; and do not mutilate (the dead) bodies; do not kill the children. When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them. Then invite them to migrate from their lands to the land of Muhairs and inform them that, if they do so, they shall have all the privileges and obligations of the Muhajirs. If they refuse to migrate, tell them that they will have the status of Bedouin Muilims and will be subjected to the Commands of Allah like other Muslims, but they will not get any share from the spoils of war or Fai’ except when they actually fight with the Muslims (against the disbelievers). If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them. When you lay siege to a fort and the besieged appeal to you for protection in the name of Allah and His Prophet, do not accord to them the guarantee of Allah and His Prophet, but accord to them your own guarantee and the guarantee of your companions for it is a lesser sin that the security given by you or your companions be disregarded than that the security granted in the name of Allah and His Prophet be violated When you besiege a fort and the besieged want you to let them out in accordance with Allah’s Command, do not let them come out in accordance with His Command, but do so at your (own) command, for you do not know whether or not you will be able to carry out Allah’s behest with regard to them. source:http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/muslim/019.smt.html#019.4294

❸Sudden Night raids on an unaware people.Prophet allows killing of women and children as they are polytheists

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 234: Narrated Anas: The Prophet reached Khaibar in the morning, while the people were coming out carrying their spades over their shoulders. When they saw him they said, “This is Muhammad and his army! Muhammad and his army!” So, they took refuge in the fort. The Prophet raised both his hands and said, “Allahu Akbar, Khaibar is ruined, for when we approach a nation (i.e. enemy to fight) then miserable is the morning of the warned ones.” Then we found some donkeys which we (killed and) cooked: The announcer of the Prophet announced: “Allah and His Apostle forbid you to eat donkey’s meat.” So, all the pots including their contents were turned upside down. source:http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/052.sbt.html#004.052.234

❺ Muhammad sends a goon to attack non-muslims.The goon doesn’t know on what account he should pick up a figjht!!!!! ..as always Muhammad has the standard answer ..pick up a fight in the name of Islam ..submiot or perish!!!

Sahih Muslim Book 031, Number 5917: Suhail reported on the authority of Abu Huraira that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said on the Day of Khaibar: I shall certainly give this standard in the hand of one who loves Allah and his Messenger and Allah will grant victory at his hand. Umar b. Khattab said: Never did I cherish for leadership but on that day. I came before him with the hope that I may be called for this, but Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) called ‘Ali b. Abu Talib and he conferred (this honour) upon him and said: Proceed on and do not look about until Allah grants you victory, and ‘Ali went a bit and then halted and did not look about and then said in a loud voice: Allah’s Messenger, ————ON WHAT ISSUE SHOULD I FIGHT WITH THE PEOPLE? Thereupon he (the PROPHET) SAID: FIGHT THEM UNTIL THEY BEAR TESTIMONY TO THE FACT THAT THERE IS NO GOD BUT ALLAH AND MUHAMMAD IS HIS MESSENGER, and when they do that then their blood and their riches are inviolable from your hands but what is justified by law and their reckoning is with Allah. source:http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/muslim/031.smt.html#031.5917

If you are apologetic muslim trying to defend the indefensible ..i have the correct advise to you

throw away these hate filled accounts from the Quran and Hadit and reclaim the true Muhammad who was not present when the Caliphs were doctoring the quran and hadit for political motives.

If you take away the legalizing of immorality, inequality and violence from Islam ..i have no problem with you

But if you justify sharia law and these hate inciting verse and accounts ..it won’t be tolerated

I read your reply. All three have given excellent and fitting replies. I am not sure whether you have read from the link, I put, which refers to context of the verse 2:217. Your own scholar, Ibn Kathir, explains the context of this verse; but you have not read or you are feigning innocence.

It is Prophet who started the war in Arabian peninsula; no one else. From the time he started preaching, he was adamant that every one obey and follow him blindly.

No one has attacked Muslims in Medina, not before this verse 2:217. You can check your sources like Ibn Ishaq’s Sira or Tabari’s History of Islam or shut your mouth.

I never missed any thing; it is you is trying to dodge. Now tell me, do you have a brain that is functioning?

You wrote ‘tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter’; then you are saying Muslims are being attacked. Some translators wrote persecution.

But are you blind? Can’t you see what is in this verse? Your Allah was comparing various crimes; they are; Muslims fighting and killing Non Muslims; and other three crimes are, by Non Muslims, according to you, are 1. to prevent access to the path of Allah, 2. to deny Him, 3.to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and drive out its members.

I just broke up what you wrote. In comparison of crimes, even if we ignore the 1st condition, look at the second. It says, to deny him (Allah) meaning not converting to Islam and follow Mohammad. In essence this disbelief in Islam is worse than Muslims breaking traditions and moral laws and one fo them is killing Non Muslims like it happened in the context which you wanted dearly. This verse sets your moral ladder made of water, dear.

Where do you draw the line? Who is oppressing Muslims in Medina? I hope you know that this verse (2:217) was reveled when he was in Medina. This is related to highway robbery and breaking of noble traditions.

Actually the Arabic word used here is Fitna. What is Fitna? Can you say? If you want to talk, talk clearly.

I told you what is the context for this verse, Nakhla raid. Why don’t you come with your context.

To say that I have neglected context for this verse is pure heresy after I have provided the link.

Do one thing. You come up with your context rather than involving in cheap rhetoric like war is going.

Are you so dumb to believe that war is going and your Allah is telling Prophet to fight until religion is all for Allah. What a crap? Even 5th grade student will understand it. Actually you too understand but you can not defend what is indefensible i.e. your prophet and his immoral life.

But I want to clarify that, you quoted those verses, not me. I just expanded them in to meaning full sentences, so people can understand what they are really for. Get this straight.

Now come to the matter. It looks like you are calling me to Islam. OK, I will if you prove that your Mohammad is not a rapist and pirate (thief). You want to stand for this challenge. You can take the help of your Islamic scholars; I have no problem.

Islam has killed your reasoning, I can easily see that. It has happened to many people. Noe explain this.

What is this people are realizing about Islam?

You write “God Almighty has clearly revealed intentions of people like you here. ( after 2:109)

Is it because of this Islam has given the death penalty for apostates? Is it because of this Islam bans other religions proselytizing in Islamic countries, while they do it in Non Muslim majority countries? Then you lie that many are converting to Islam and boast that many are converting to Islam with out any concrete proof.

Are you sane or insane? You are not even ashamed of writing this stuff here? Still you do because, you have no conscience; Islam has killed your conscience.

Another thing: What is this truth? Why engage in a useless rhetoric like saying Islam is truth? Explain it. Your Allah, going by Koran is anti God, a mad man’s creation.

What is the proof that is in Koran for existence of Allah? Please save giving natural phenomenon as proofs.

You know nothing and yet you are calling every one to Islam. Yeah, Allah tells you this right in 3:110, 2:143 i.e. teach about religion. What a load of s***.

what’s more the verse just before 21:107 (that @True Indian shared) proves another anomaly of Quran

here’s Quran 21:106 “Verily, in this (the Qur’ân) there is a plain Message for people who worship Allâh (i.e. the true, real believers of Islâmic Monotheism who act practically on the Qur’ân and the Sunnah legal ways of the Prophet SAW).”

This clearly means that the Quran is only for people who ALREADY BELIEVE in Allah and not for those who DONT WORSHIP ALLAH ….again proving that Quran is not for entire mankind BUT only that part of mankind that is muslim.

Most Indian Muslims don’t know about the genius (not to be confused with morality or righteousness) of Mohammed. The Arbas in Muhammad’s time were believed to be the descendants of of slave woman . They were not looked upon with great respect bcoz of this belief.

Mohammed knew the only way to gain supremacy was to confront the biblical and taurat accounts and fight against the people of the book.Second thing he did was to force his followers to behave like arabs ( with all the violence and sexual license that has always been the hallmark of Arab society) ..and lo! you have today more than a billion people aping the Arabs

I mean..it’s heights! .. An Indian or Bangladeshi who is treated like dirt in Saudi Arabia is still willing to trace his lineage to a desert culture that survived on loot and plunder ..and not being proud of the fact that he belongs to the oldest living culture of the world which is the mother of science , language and philosophy …The Arabs learned how to count from us!

An Arab defending Islam is understandable because that is why Islam was created in the first place..to establish Arab supremacy ..but an Indian pakistani or bangaldeshi boasting of the same is not only self-defeating but foolish

Quraan.47:7……Thus have We sent by inspiration to thee an Arabic Qur’an: that thou mayest warn the Mother of Cities and all around her,- and warn (them) of the Day of Assembly, of which there is no doubt: (when) some will be in the Garden, and some in the Blazing Fire..

Now lets Analyse this……….Now suppose this Verse doesnt INCLUDE that “Mother of the cities and all around her”. will it be possible for prophet Muhammad(mpbuh). it is but natural in terms of preaching around mecca was in the prophet Muhammad(mpbuh) Controls Since this Verse actually gives instruction to the prophet(mpbuh) by instructing the prophet(mpbuh) to “GO AND PREACH IN MECCA AND ALL AROUND MECCA WHICH HE DID IN REALTY”

IT IS A DIRECT INSTRUCTION GIVEN TO THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD(MPBUH) TO GO AND PRAECH IN MECCA AND AND ALL AROUND MECCA……

ONCE AGAIN “Thus have We sent by inspiration to thee an Arabic Qur’an: that thou mayest warn the Mother of Cities and all around her,- and warn (them) of the Day of Assembly, of which there is no doubt: (when) some will be in the Garden, and some in the Blazing Fire..”

1.NOW IT IS A DIRECT INSTRUCTION TO THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD(MPBUH).

2.NOW HOW CAN ONE EXPECT ALLAH(SWT) TO REVEAL QURAAN IN ARABIC AND BEGIN WITH THE NON ARABS,

3.IT HAD TO BE AND IT IS THAT ALLAH(SWT) REVEALED QURAAN IN ARABIC AND INSTRUCTED PROPHET MUHAMMAD(MPBUH) 47:7.TO START WITH MECCA AND ALL AROUND MECCA SINCE IT IS THERE OWN LANGUAGE.

4.WHAT OTHERS(NON ARABS) ARE REQUIRED IS TO ACCEPT THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD(MPBUH) AS MESSENGER. WHICH DOES NOT HAVE ANY CONNECTION WITH ARABIC LANGUAGE.

IT CAN BE CONSIDER AS THE START OF DAWWAH IN ISLAM.FOR THIS PURPOSE ALLAH(SWT) INSTRUCTED PROPHET MUHAMMAD(MPBUH).TO GO IN AND AROUND MECCA.SINCE IT IS THERE OWN LANGUAGE

AS IT WOULD BE COMPLETELY ILLOGICAL IF PROPHET MUHAMMAD(MPBUH) WOULD HAVE PREACHED TO THOSE WHO WERE NON ARABS………SINCE HE FIRST NEED TO CONVEY PEOPLE TO WHOM HE KNOWN THROUGH OUT HIS LIFE…………..’

1) The verse number is 42:7 (and not 47:7 as you have quoted) ..also the translation “all around her” should actually be “those around her” (arabic : waman hawlahaa )

2) Allah had already revealed the Torah to the Jews and Gospel to the Christians in hebrew/aramic.Allah had also sent 1,24,000 messengers before Muhammad ..they all spoke different languages according to the Quran ..WHAT HAPPENED TO THOSE 1,24,000 Languages !!! ?

3.And why is Muhammad required to be accepted by the non arabs if the book was meant for easy understanding of those who understand it ..The Quran boasts that it is simple to understand for it;s followers as it;s language is arabic ….Do you speak arabic? what population of the Muslims speaks arabic?

4.Didn;t Allah know that the Most popular language of the World is going to be English ..how can you assume Allah to all-wise and all-knowing when he reveals his words to an illiterate man ..who cannot een confirm if the scribes have written the right thing or the wrong thing and that too ina language in the most iolent and uncivilized region of 7th century Arabai? how dumb can one get in blind belief 🙁

1.u have wasted your first point in just writing it doesn’t encourage me to write something sensibly i’ll take it as a matter of putting the post……….

2.Got Corrupted by humans since there purpose was achieved and hence was the stepping stone towards the final revelation i:e Quraan.

3.Brother let me give u my logic as to WHY Quraan is revealed in Arabic………suppose Quraan had revealed in Sanskrit…….do u know what would have been the status of the Quraan it would have been in the hands Brahmin’s ONLY……..now appreciate Allah(swt). Allah(swt) reveals QURAAN in the language which is spoken and will be spoken till the end of time INSHALLAH!……………..and learning Arabic is not a big deal…..!

4.English is No doubt the most popular language but this MOST popular langue was not the langue of ARAB’S but any way language should not be the issue as QURAAN had to be revealed in one language and now it is QURAAN in Arabic……….

since Allah(swt) has revealed revelation in many languages…including Hebrew

NOW LET ME ASK U ONE QUESTION WHY VEDA’S ARE IN SANSKRIT.WHEN SANSKRIT IS A ALMOST DEAD LANGUAGE…NO ONE READS EXCEPT BY THE BRAHMIN’S OF INDIA ONLY………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….

Why you ‘Agniveer’ try to teach the followers of the Islam or Quaran? As told in Gita you do your duty of telling the world what is right according to you and see for the result. When you believe in the omnipotence of God you should not worry about the violence and intolerance professed by any religion. God is the father of all creatures including non-human beings. Therefore it is very unlikely that Allah would have advised to kill non-muslims or discriminate among human beings. The basis of Quaran is itself suspicious because of the harm the mankind has undergone by its preachings. Mankind need not worry because evil things fall by their own weight even without any external agency. Hence, Agniveer, please go on doing your duty unmindful of the reactions.

I don’t think Agniveer is trying to teach the Quran ..I think agniveer is pretty clear in his call ..he is asking his muslim bros to denounce and condemn the likes of zakir naik who support such hatred and illwill against non muslims.Agniveer believes not only in the omnipotence of god to deliver justice , it also believes in the free will of souls ..some souls exercising their freewill against other souls hampers our collective moksha ..God does not do karma ..souls have to do it.And this very thing our extremely non-violent ancestors forgot when Invaders attacked our country and we became easy prey

Sir, a simple question to you would be ..if god is omnipotent ..should we have the army at all?..shall we assume that if Pakistan or terrorists attack God will take care of it?

A bigger question is “what should we strive for”..i think one should strive for upholding the search and voice of truth AND discarding falsity

I am in agreement with agniveer’s request to our fellow brothers to discard people like zakir naik who want non-muslims to be treated like third grade citizens in Islamic lands and who openly support terrorists

Quran is considered as Islam’s holy book. But, more than sixty percent of the Quran is about non-Muslims. Writings about what Muslims should follow based on the human values for the good of every one is religious. Writings about what non-Muslims should do or how Muslims should deal with non- Muslims is political. Therefore, based on Islam’s most holy book, Islam is more political (61%) than religious (39%). There are 527 verses of intolerance / hatred toward non-Muslims, and 109 verses specifically advocating violence towards non-Muslims. Non-Muslims who like Islam or who ignore about the threats, don’t know much about it.

They say this to make money because emotional fools among muslims fill the pockets of such sayers.

Arundhati Roys are there in every community and every nation who surviwe by ditching the motherland. Namakharaam aur gaddar kaha nahi hote. They get titles from invaders like rai bahadur and other awards… They become famous and invaders and their associates use their opionon to justify their ideology of agression or crimes against humanity.

A person who can not respect others way of worship, really dun deserve to be called a human being , forget about such perosn being a messanger of God.

God being father of us all dun care which way his babies are greeting him. He bothers only to eliminate the torture to his inncent children.

Thats why every Avatar fights against injustice and not against particular way of worship.

I have replied to your video posts in kind to balance the views.this aint my preferred way of debating.

By the way , you display the same mindset that Wafa Sultan highlights in her talks.. Islamists consider any criticism , however genuine, against Islam as false allegation 🙁 .How do you know that the allegations are false apart from the silly rhetoric that “only islam is true , hence everything against is false” !

Dear friend, i would suggest that we have a dialogue on kind of discipline Islam brings.I also want to discuss that how come Muslims criticizing hinduism and christianity and atheism will not repent , but everybody who criticizes Islam would repent ?

Your last statement is welcome and great ..we should be kind to all creatures. Stop killing goats and cows cruelly in the name of God