Looks very cool. The proposed itemization changes sound good, and I'm really curious about the paragon revamp. It sounds like it could really give length to endgame. I'm also curious about loot runs and nephalem trials modes. Looks like even though they disappointed me when it came to story, they're getting my money again. Also, I love the dark Gothic look of the maps in westmarch.

Originally Posted by danutz_plusplus
Looks very cool. The proposed itemization changes sound good..

what?! they call it loot 2.0, but its basicly the same as before, only they call some stats "epic" or whatever. legendary items still only seem to have one CtC stat as their "epic" part.. and its still just chasing your main stat. still not even close to d2 itemization. most other new changes are meh.

Originally Posted by dyze
what?! they call it loot 2.0, but its basicly the same as before, only they call some stats "epic" or whatever. legendary items still only seem to have one CtC stat as their "epic" part.. and its still just chasing your main stat. still not even close to d2 itemization. most other new changes are meh.

If you look closely - you'll see that legendary items now have unique properties - like skills or effects. This is something that might make them highly desirable for unique builds.

Originally Posted by HiddenX
Diablo is THE cause for an increased number of dumbed down action CRPGs since the 90s -> I played the first one - detested, abominated, loathed and abhorred it - never came back

It started well before Diablo. Gauntlet, Ghosts n goblins, Golden axe, Moonstone etc. There's always been a market for action fantasy games. If anything, RPGs are the ones that tried to jump into the existing action fantasy market, not the other way around.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan
There's a difference between action fantasy and action RPGs.

I think the line is pretty blurred

Diablo definitely had a profound effect on the genre, though we got games like Baldur's Gate and Planescape right after.

I'd say Diablo's success had an effect on the genre - just like StarCraft and WarCraft did. Nothing especially new, just very very polished and fun. The rest of the market can't help but respond to the top dog - if only to ask 'what are they doing right?'

Originally Posted by kalniel
It started well before Diablo. Gauntlet, Ghosts n goblins, Golden axe, Moonstone etc. There's always been a market for action fantasy games. If anything, RPGs are the ones that tried to jump into the existing action fantasy market, not the other way around.

Blizzard gave a completely new feature to this genre :

The hunt for loot.

In the end, RPGs have become "loot hunting simulations", nothing more, cynically put.

Story ? Who needs a story if a game like that sells so well ?

— “ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer
Blizzard gave a completely new feature to this genre :

The hunt for loot.

I don't know - gauntlet and moonstone were pretty loot driven.

In the end, RPGs have become "loot hunting simulations", nothing more, cynically put.

But they were loot hunting games well before as well - might and magic is the best example that springs to mind, and they were doing that well before Diablo.

Story ? Who needs a story if a game like that sells so well ?

Again, early RPGs had terrible stories too. Even good RPGs had terrible stories. Eye of the Beholder had two fantastic games, the story was little more than 'you're adventurers, you've been paid to investigate this haunted castle/dungeon' that's it. Story matters for non-comic adventure games, not RPGs.

Maybe this quote might seem familiar or applicable

Originally Posted by CGW
Might & Magic II seems to have swerved off the path in the boring "monster mash/Monty Haul" direction, where ever-more-powerful characters with ever-more-powerful weapons fight ever-more-powerful monsters until it all escalates into the realm of the ludicrous.

I remember M&M 1 didn't even have a story. You just had a very vague goal that you were looking for the "inner sanctum". There was no explanation at all for why you were looking for it, or why it was important. You just wandered around killing monsters and collecting loot until you opened the right door and abruptly won the game, without any explanation for why.

Originally Posted by HiddenX
Diablo is THE cause for an increased number of dumbed down action CRPGs since the 90s -> I played the first one - detested, abominated, loathed and abhorred it - never came back

I remember all the Diablo clones, and we have Blizzard to thank for that. The horror of it was almost 90% of them were horrible.

Also don't get me stated on who needs a story in there RPG's. I can be very passionate about this topic. Let me get back to my Bioware games now.

Originally Posted by Couchpotato
Also don't get me stated on who needs a story in there RPG's. I can be very passionate about this topic. Let me get back to my Bioware games now.

HINT-(I need story or the game is just plain boring as hell)

So what did you do in the times when RPGs didn't have stories? Ultima series (hack and slash ) was among the first to actually have a good story in my memory, hardly anything else compared really. Betrayal at Krondor maybe? lol Some of the gold box were OK, but then they were taken from D&D modules until the Savage Frontier games.