What Event Fatigue?

There came a moment on Saturday when we iFanboy second stringers (Ali Colluccio, Timmy Wood, Jeff Reid and I) sort of convened in the middle of the floor, at a loss for what to do with our afternoon. I had browsed every booth and talked to all the artists and writers I could get a moment with, and if I ran into that Skrull Black Widow cosplayer one more time I think we were going to have to exchange traders insurance information. Looking at the schedule, shifting weight from aching foot to aching foot, one of us eventually said, “Eh, I think I might go to the Avengers vs. X-Men panel.” It may even have been me.

Even if it was me, I admit I was still going in with some hesitation. One year ago, I had spent that same Saturday afternoon in that same conference room at the Fear Itself panel, and even as it was happening I thought, “This may not be shaping up to be the best use of my time in Chicago, necessarily.” The highlight, if I’m being honest, was during the Q & A session when a fully grown adult male asked how big a role Power Pack would have in the event and was visibly crestfallen when the answer was “none, really.” I regret not interviewing that guy.

So we thought we’d pop in. Check it out, as a lark. Find a chair for an hour and spread out, stop the dogs from barking.

We got to the panel room and stumbled into what felt like a geothermal vent. A pulsing torrent of man-heat radiated from the room before you could even approach the door. In fact, you couldn’t approach the door: there were a bulge of fanboys pressing against the entrance like they were cosplaying as a Who concert, like if they wished and pushed hard enough the dudes on the other side of the room would burst through the opposing wall, making enough room for them to finally get in. We couldn’t even hear what was being said in the room. Ever the devil on iFanboy’s shoulder, I goaded Timmy Wood into opening the door closer to the front of the room; twenty people sitting with their backs against it splayed out on the ground in front of him, and 400 people shouted “WRONG DOOR” like he had walked into a reactor on accident.

As we sheepishly made our way back downstairs, we noticed a line that spanned the entire length of the fourth floor. We approached a volunteer to ask what all the hullabaloo was about, but before we could get a word out she said, “This is the DC ‘New 52’ panel. If you want to get in, the line starts all the way back there.”

One thing was certain (other than the fact that eight months is officially too long to call a thing “the new” anything): events are back, baby. If they ever went anywhere to begin with.

You’ve seen people kvetching over the years. “Uch, you have to buy all those tie-ins, and the storylines of your regular books get hijacked for six months, and God forbid I just want to read Secret Avengers…. Can we not just spend a year letting each book tell its own good stories?”

This seems different, though. This isn’t the usual “people say they hate events, then they slavishly buy the events” phenomenon. People seem legitimately excited about things these days. Either that marketing is working like a charm, or people’s cold, cold hearts are melting.

How long has this been a thing?

My comic book shop of choice is part of a chain, and they had a meeting wherein every store was asked to choose which side they were on in the case of Avengers vs. X-Men. The manager of my store is with the X-Men, in part because “my staff would have killed me if I went the other way.” They care. They will talk to you about it. At length.

Marvel was giving away buttons at their C2E2 booth that said “I’m with the Avengers.” They hadn’t gotten the X-Men ones printed up in time. People were losing their shit.

Look at that guy on the left over there. We have event hats now, apparently.

Here’s the thing: I’m a decrepit, gnarled old man. I see this AvX stuff and I think, “That’s a cute idea. That might be a fun way to spend a summer,” but I also sort of feel like I’ve trod this path before. During Civil War, which based on how it feels was about 73 years ago now, I was getting to the shop the minute it opened, frothing at the mouth in anticipation of what outrageous thing was going to happen next. I don’t see myself getting sucked in like that this time. But unlike Civil War, there’s something in the air this year. This feels like… fun. People are really enjoying this, and I’m enjoying how much people are enjoying it.

You know what it is? It’s like we’re all at a ballgame. And not one of those Boston vs. New York games, either. It’s a sunny, exciting afternoon down at the ballpark, watching our favorite players at the top of their game. People are in the spirit, and it’s great. It doesn’t have to be anything more than that.

Of course, we have yet to see how it all turns out, but that’s 2013’s problem. At the Marvel booth this weekend, they were showing previews of a Fear Itself pinball game for the Xbox and PS3. The line for that probably won’t be quite as long.

I’ve started thinking like Conor. Not every event has to have ramifications that lead to the next event. What I want is a good story. If it changes everything, that’s cool. If it doesn’t and I still enjoy it, that’s cool too.

I think one of the biggest problems with fans today is their obsession with continuity. It has become such a problem that some writers are not getting to do some of their stories. I was talking to Cullen Bunn recently and he was telling me a story idea he had for Wolverine that would be out of continuity. Marvel turned down his idea even though they thought it was great because the “fans wouldn’t buy it.” Sad days.

@mykey–i’ve often wondered about that….why we don’t see more out of continuity stories or titles. I guess fans “don’t want them”, but i certainly would be interested…there are so many characters that i like in the abstract (X-men) but have found very difficult to break into the books because of the dense continuity.

@Conor do you think that most comic fans will ever get sick of continuity? I know all of my friends, myself included, would prefer stories along the lines of what @Mykey described. Continuity ties creators hands and with the rising interest in Image and other independent lines, it seems that will force Marvel and DC to start allowing writers outside of the box.

@conor, Grayghost, Mykey, etc…The ‘Things Will Be Different’ mentality started with the Big Two. It’s hard to blame the average comic book reader, who has this expectation, to suddenly say, ‘it doesn’t matter’, and read it any way. Especially for $3.99 a pop. You can’t market cookies for years and suddenly make cakes and genuinely expect no outcries of, “But, what about my cookies?!?” Marvel is Pavlov and we, their dogs.

@Kmanifesto: That implies a lack of free will and reasoning capabilities among the comic book reader. You have to be able to see past the marketing and think for yourself. There’s a pizza place near here that says, “Best pizza in town!” on the outside. It’s not. But I don’t get angry about that.

The cookie/cake analogy doesn’t work because they’re still making the same thing: comic books. It’s the “importance to continuity” aspect that people get caught up in and place too much importance on, rather than just wanting to read good/entertaining stories.

@conor – There’s no reason to be glib. Some people may read and enjoy comics for different reason than you.

Consumer expectations in comics isn’t a matter of “free will” or “reasoning capabilities”. Consumer expectations are created. by those that make the product or design the market..
The fact that you buy comics, in spite of what you should expect in the purchase based on the solicit, sounds more like a cynical habit, or worse, a way to justify an addiction.

The only way the “cookie/cake analogy” doesn’t work, is if you misunderstand it. If Company A sells cookies (Big Comic Event Will Change Everything You Know) and then sells you a cake (BIG Comic Event Made Promise, But Fails To Keep Said Promise), you can’t blame some readers for being upset when the stories sold were not the stories told.

@Kmanifesto: I’m not being glib, I’m being serious. The onus is on the readers who seem to have ceded all control over to the marketing departments at Marvel and DC. If you’re new to comics and it’s your first big comic book event? Fine, I can see a reader being taken in by the marketing and expecting something that isn’t going to happen. But if it’s not your first rodeo and you still expect everything to change after a big event then the fault is on the reader for not understanding how things work in mainstream comics. Change is always promised, change is (almost) never delivered.

The cookie/cake analogy is still flawed because cookies are not cakes. Comics are still comics. They are promising you a comic book story, they are giving you a comics book story. Your analogy would be correct if I went to buy an issue of BATMAN and they gave me TIME MAGAZINE instead.

here’s an observation on continuity – As I have been reading stuff about the new seasons of Mad Men and Game of Thrones and even Community; each show runner and head writer talks about how their goal is to change the characters in every season. That’s fundamental to viewer investment and the show’s overall excitment.

What is happening here in comics? Here’s an event, at the end nothing is different even though we say it will be but you just have to learn this from experience and hundreds of dollars spent?

BUT it’s all about the story, it has to be a good story. If it’s a good story than it’s ok. So how can it be good when nothing changes?

@edward: A good story in comics doesn’t depend on change. If it did, there would be virtually no good stories in DC and Marvel comics.

Of course you need to determine what “change” means. Status quos don’t usually change but characters often do. That’s character development, which is what those show runners are talking about, and that kind of change happens all the time in comics and in comic book events.

@Conor: character development and change are totally different things. A bottle episode with Walter White and Jesse discussing stuff in a basement is great character development. Episodes where Walter White commits murder or forms an allience with a drug cartel changes the character.

Remember when Dick Greyson became Batman? That’s change. The issues when he talks to barbara or goes home to the circus? Character development. Which is better?

Conor stated, “…But if it’s not your first rodeo and you still expect everything to change after a big event then the fault is on the reader for not understanding how things work in mainstream comics. Change is always promised, change is (almost) never delivered.”

@Conor – based on that statement alone, you have declared everyone that visits your site either an idiot or a cynic.

@Conor: That aside, how do you think comics are set up to deal with either interpretation?

I’m just thinking here, Avengers vs. X-men, what’s the story? dudes hitting each other? Snyder’s Batman, the character learns about Gotham, learns about his place in the city, is different afterwards. Swamp Thing, Alec Holland chooses to become a monster and fights a nebulous bad threat, I don’t even know if that’s change or just doing the same thing

@Kmanifesto: One would have to buy the premise that you have to be a cynic to still find enjoyment in mainstream comics while understanding that nothing ever really changes in the status quo. Which I don’t.

“The onus is on the readers who seem to have ceded all control over to the marketing departments at Marvel and DC.”

I don’t know what to say to consumers who don’t see the truth in statements like the one above.

It frustrates me that adults cannot take responsibility for the way they spend their money and how they let companies string them along and keep them strung out then bitch about the company instead of their own personal weaknesses.

@conor – the analogy works if Marvel = Bakery. Besides, it’s obvious you get my meaning (whether you agree or not) because you focused so much on the analogy as opposed to my point. To say my analogy was incorrect reflects your understanding of said analogy.

And, yes…one can be cynical toward a subject and still derive pleasure from said subject. A bit sadistic, but in psychological terms, it is still considered enjoyment by some.

@ScorpionMasada – Having the attitude that people are idiots for expecting a product to be what is sold, actually reflects poorly on those who accept the scam and go along with. In the criminal justice system, these people would be charged with aiding and abetting.

@Kmanifesto: I’m not cynical about comic books. I’m not sure how you could listen to me talk about looking forward to AVENGERS VS. X-MEN on the show a few weeks ago and call me a cynic. And if I was a cynic, I wouldn’t have made them my job.

I am a realist, though. I’ve been reading comics since the early 80s and going to the store every week since the early 90s. I know what mainstream comics are and what they aren’t, despite what the marketing people try to tell me.

@ScorpionMasada – Thanks, mom. I will always champion truth in solicits. I will not, however, join in with those that have thrown in the towel and accepted shoddy work ethic by a company for the sake of a good story. If you don’t expect better, you will not get better.

To expect less, is no different than an addict who will accept any form of abuse as long as they get the next hit.

@conor – Fair enough. I’m a ‘returning reader’ after several years of co-owning a comic shop in the late 80’s and returning with the New 52. The industry’s ways are not unfamiliar to me. The pie is much smaller for those trying to make money so no gimmick is left unturned and often leads companies to do desperate things.

Just because they have taken the low-road, should not mean that as a consumer we should not expect better. If this is not addressed, it will be the reason for 20 titles at $10 a piece for a much smaller number of readers.

I think the thing with Fear Itself was that no one really knew exactly what it was until around 3 issues in. Marvel was very vague while marketing it, and thus they weren’t really able to build up to much of a buzz around it (plus, I don’t think they would’ve been able to build a hype around that comparable to AvX). With AvX, though, it seems like Marvel is doing the exact opposite: just going balls to the wall in hyping the possibilities that this can bring. Plus, it doesn’t hurt that 2 incredibly popular franchises are front and center of this blitz. Really happy to see that this is working, as I like seeing people excited about this little hobby of mine…give me hope that it’s going to have future legs.

Yeah, Fear Itself was initially developed as a Cap/Thor story that was expanded to become a line-wide event. And in retrospect, I think it’s fair to say it didn’t have enough of a hook for a line-wide event.

I can envision an alternate reality where a scaled down version of Fear Itself was just a crossover between Thor/Cap/Iron Man/JIM along with a couple tie-in miniseries (Avengers, X-Men) and one shots (Spider-man), and everybody went apeshit for it.

I agree. I lent the main series to a friend, and he said it made no sense,

When I read it again to try understand his complaint I realised without the tie-ins and the hype it’s a lot of disconnected scenes, At the time whe I read it with Amazing Spider-man and Runaways it felt great, by itself not so much.

As an example of “the more things change…”, I think my opinion of Fear Itself took longer to go negative because I was reading Uncanny X-Men and Avengers in addition to the main series. The additional context from those tie-ins (which were pretty good) kind of buoyed my opinion of the whole thing. I don’t think the Fear Itself series left any major plot points to the tie-ins, but rather chose to leave out a lot of the necessary character beats.

As for AVX tie-ins, I’m already reading Uncanny, WATXM, and X-Men Legacy, so we’ll see how those books impact my impression of the main event.

i’ve started looking at these types of things like pop music. Its designed to be a specific kind of mass market product, but its kinda foolish to expect it to be high art. The fun comes from the fact that you know what you’re gonna get.

There are so many comics being published nowadays, its pretty easy to get outside the pop market if you really want to.

I am burned out on event fatigue after Flashpoint & I avoided Marvel’s event last year. I am avoiding Before Watchmen & AvX all together this year. If in 6 to 9 months when they are done I may check them out & if they are crapola I will avoid them completely while thankful I saved my money.

Well I’m avoiding event fatigue by not buying the books what so ever. I should have done it years ago because I’m happy for the first time buying comics and not worrying about buying anything event related.

Hell I’m not even buying semi/mini events such as the JIM crossover with New Mutants or the next big JIM crossover with Fraction’s Thor. It saves me money and doesn’t stress me out as much.

I decided to avoid AvX simply because of the total cost of 12 issues for the main series. I would’ve bought a 6 issue event for $24 of the same story, but I’d rather spend $48 dollars on other things. I can find out what happens in AvX from the solicits and internet spoilers. When it’s over, I can forget it ever happened and go about my business enjoying the comics I like.

I’m trade waiting on it. The cost is catching me this year and I’m on the verge of jumping off single issues completely. If I can avoid the big Marvel event in single issues without caving I’m moving to trades for everything.

Like several others it seems, I’m kinda done with the big events. The last one I honestly enjoyed and looked forward to was 52. That said, I am looking forward to two mini events/crossovers, The Court of Owls and Omega Effect. Both stories look self contained, organic, and fun.

For me I’m just picking my events more carefully. Fear itself wasn’t really the sort of story I normally go for, and I realised 4 issues in, so I dropped it. AvX is the same, I’m not really an A or X fan so have no stake in the event. Whereas Flash trapped in a alternate universe trying to get home, and there’s Funhouse Mirror versions of famous characters, that appeals to me.

The Night of Owls I am super-excited for, plus you can chose your own involvement, I don’t feel I HAVE to buy everything to understand it, I can buy just Batman, or I can buy the side books too. The mini-Daredevil event also appeals to me. Short quick crossovers do more for me that drawn out events.

I hope AvX does well, Marvel needs a win, and if I hear good things I’ll try a trade.

I don’t think Events are a bad thing, but I think the consumer needs to be more savvy when purchasing.

Event fatigue is a like a myth, you’ll have a core group of people always proclaiming the it exists, then another group claiming it doesn’t exist. (Wow the comics as religions goes much further then just the characters as gods metaphor)

I think there are people more burned on the companies, or even having the feeling you need to buy separate comics to get a full story. I know I’m down to one Marvel comic, and only a few DC. I won’t be buying the connecting titles for their little mini-events happening, Omega happening in Pushisher/DareDevil/Random Spidey comic as an example, but will still be buying Punisher.

I don’t necessarily have event fatigue (though I’ve avoided all DC events since dropping Final Crisis midway and opted out of my first Marvel event Fear Itself before it began) but have a need for more self-contained titles with more than two stories per year regarding Marvel and DC super hero books. Man, I miss the one-and-done Jonah Hex format.

As a long, long time reader, I continue heading deeper into smaller press titles as well as Vertigo and exploring older titles via back issues, than interested in mega-events. Marvel events aren’t special to me anymore since the big names not only team-up every summer for a major battle but hang out in between in team books where rosters are a cross section of their core franchises. It’s not special to see Spider-Man team up with the Fantastic Four or Avengers if he’s a member of both teams. Ditto for Wolverine. And Namor. And the Thing. Etc. Etc.

However, if events were the length of Seige, then, back-peddling may be in order.

It could just be that Marvel has trained you guys to accept what they put out no matter what.

I mean, you guys are very much IN the industry now. You went from three guys talking about the books you liked most… to a whole bullpen of employees scrambling to put up any “exclusive” that the Big Two throws your way. You still like indie books, sure, but your headline articles are more likely to be previews of the latest Rob Liefeld stuff at DC, or big announcements about random minute creative team changes on books that none of you are even reading.

You guys are more like Newsarama now, for better or worse. Some of you, like Jim, apparently still think it’s kinda weird to not mind “event fatigue” or whatever. But do you expect that the paid employees of Newsarama mind covering comic cons? Of course not. It’s basically their job, and it’s a relatively fun job, and they aren’t expected (or even really allowed) to be critically minded of Marvel and DC all that often. In those regards, iFanboy has pretty much followed suit; you’re training yourselves to act that way, to accept anything and push everything that’s out there. You guys have transitioned from a site that was critically minded (positively and negatively) and relatively skeptical of the Big Two… to a site that pretty much cheerleads them.

The biggest evidence to the contrary is Josh not liking some of what Fraction has done recently. Which is sort of the exception to the rule, and a very small exception at that.

I mean, I don’t blame you guys. I still like your site, but at this point it’s entirely expected for iFanboy to figure out ways to like, defend, and push whatever Big Thing Marvel is doing next. Seeing articles poo-pooing the idea of “event fatigue” is entirely expected. In a few years you’ll be writing articles saying that it isn’t so bad to be paying $3.99 or $4.99 for digital comics from Marvel and DC. I mean, you’ve never taken a stand on anything.

It was funny, a few weeks ago, when someone accused you of making AvX #1 the Pick of the Week simply because Marvel sponsored you that week. But the truth is actually much weirder: Marvel doesn’t even have to give you money, and you’d still make most of their Big Dumb Projects picks of the week. You even made a few issues of Final Crisis PoTW even though you didn’t understand them. The PoTW, and iFanboy in general, used to be about the comics that you guys liked the most. Now it’s about whichever comics have the most top-down HYPE that week.

With all due respect, guys–I actually think AvX is kinda fun, but it’s like you guys learn nothing from the past. You’ve slowly but surely become suckers for whatever Marvel or DC is pushing.

My favorite part of this stupid rant was how Josh’s dislike of Fear Itself was only a small and insignificant exception. Did you calculate the insignificance of it yourself using the Psychometric Chart of Criticism?

This rant is based on gross, and largely untrue, generalizations. The worst part is @flapjaxx won’t have the decency or integrity to come back to this board and attempt to defend his statements with actual facts or tangible examples. I mean why even bother to come on this site if you think this little of it? Do you really need to make yourself feel good by tearing other people down? Just sad.

Then I can get the public library’s copy of the trade and sit down and read the whole big mountain of tie-ins at my leisure.

It’s usually also a good time to catch up on my own neglected piles of related issues, anyway.

And it’s nice to read these events without having invested too heavily in the “line-wide” blowouts, with the perspective offered by a bit of time having passed, and by a general cooling-off of the overheated derision, gushing, dismissal or fawning of the All-Knowing Everybody Has An Opinion Machine.

Spider-Man and Daredevil having been doing some nice Marvel-Knights-ish things over in the Wacker-verse, without spilling too far into the Line-Writ-Large. Those are events I read as the events conclude, or even as they happen, because they’re generally somewhat fun (they have Spider-Man in them). I may even read the issues as they arrive at my house, instead of waiting until the trade comes out (although Marvel generally collects stuff on a nice regular schedule).

Also, I think people may be more into AvX because of the involvement of some other writers, and the team-writing process might keep Matt Fraction from wandering off too far into long-playing slow-burn land.

As far as people still being excited for the New 52, with titles like Animal Man and Swamp Thing leading the charge, you can’t really blame them. Who thought that those titles could sustain this much interest for this long? For the people who hung in there and picked the winners, I’ll bet this has been one heck of a reboot.

Well, it’s always an anecdotal thing. I know that personally I most definitely have event fatigue and I will not be buying a single issue of AvX or anything tied into it. Now, it might just be marvel fatigue, but I’m glad there is not an announced DC event. Keep things on a court of the owls scale please thank you.

Also… I don’t think the crowds at a con are very representative of fans as a whole, but we will see. Event fatigue or not doesn’t really matter to me that much other than as a topic to discuss.

There will be a DC event, aside from the constant crossovers between the DC books I really like with ones I don’t read. I’m glad ppl are having fun with this event and while I’m not gonna buy the tie-ins(drew the line there), I read AvsX #0 and #1 and liked em both way more than expected. I don’t have event fatigue because I only read the books I enjoy, I did buy all the Flashpoint titles and overall liked it, skipped Fear Itself and still know all the main things that happened, so AvsX is bringing some fun back to the Marvel U spirit with the story still carrying some weight, fun and serious, glad I bought those two issues.

I personally love the idea of events, the idea of putting all or most of the entire line’s characters in a single large scale story makes sense to me.

What I don’t like are event tie ins, where all the regular books I’m reading are derailed and become completely unnecissariy off-shoots to a different series. Very rarely do tie ins tell a decent story and even less commonly do they have any relevance to the main story of the event or the comic they are told in.

AVX will be great I’m sure, but New Avengers, Avengers, Uncanny X-Men, Secret Avengers, X-Men Legacy, etc. are all going to be crap for the next 5-6 months.

There is nothing wrong with an event as long as the story behind it is good enough to justify it and the writing and the art are up to that level. I’ve been scanning Crisis On Infinite Earths into my computer and the story and art and writing are great. Look at the two pages in issue 7 that show the death of Supergirl. You have good writing, amazing art and panel placement and it didn’t seem forced. AvX is very, very forced. There’s nothing in AvX that couldn’t be worked out over a quick lunch but to make it work Cyclops has to be crazy and Cap has to be authoritative. AvX is 80% marketing, 15% interesting idea and 5% story in my opinion. It’s the event I’ll fish out of the discount boxes at the comic book shows in a year or even a half of a year at far, far less than 3.99 per issue.

** COMMENT MODERATED **
Event fatigue? I am sorry to say I believe I have been diagnost (bad spelling again sorry) with this a long time ago. It seems to me that in the last two or three decades it has become so standard once a year for the big to it has watered everything down and really has made the BIG EVENT more of another hit or miss idea to make a few extra bucks at the readers expense. For me Bloodlines by DC and Fear Itself Marvel have really been a waste of paper and ink, they were not very good and seemed to be lost from begining to end. Again this is only my opinion and others may have enjoyed them although it seems that the majority of people I have chatted with over time these two MAJOR EVENTS were the two biggest flops and being so afraid we are going to miss something we buy just enough issues to look back and say no more and by that time they have made those few extra bucks and well I guess some of us may understand. I’m not even sure if that made any sense although I hope so. I do not think we will stop buying the events because you never know when it is gonna be that good or maybe they kill off one of our favorite characters????
I digress, this has been a great topic and has brought some fun debates, please tRake no offense because I know some people may not like my views either. Thanks to all the staff at IFanBoy for a great eb site for all of us fans and don’t forget we all put on our pants the same way. And the rest of us mere-mortal fanboy commentors lets keep on commenting and have a great debate.

I have problems with how some events are structured, but I still like them when they are good. Just keep them organized well like Flashpoint and I will be happy. AvX is cool so far. But 12 issues? May end up being too many.

I have nothing against events, I’m just not interested in reading them much anymore. When a good one comes along, I do like it; I liked the core mini-series of Siege and Blackest Night. But lately, I’ve realized that I’m gravitating towards series that are mostly left alone and allowed to do their own thing. An example is Hickman’s Fantastic Four, which I’ve recently started. Great stories that are left to their own devices and not referencing the rest of the MU very often.

I’ve decided that AvX is the first event that I’m going to attempt to buy all the tie-ins. Now this is gonna add about $20 to my weekly spending. Sorry Night of Owls, but I’ll buy the trade when later on when it comes out. Oh wait. I’m gonna have to get another longbox cause my Marvel longbox is pretty much full. Add another $7 to that tab.