It’s time to talk about Allegiant

Sigh. You guys. It’s time. I’ve given you a month to think about it, but it’s time to finally discuss the elephant in the room. (I mean discuss it in in writing and not just during #TNBookClub where I was drinking wine & may have been more honest than I meant to be. Oops)

The Ending

But someone had to (other than the many people she killed off in the last 2 books). And it was going to be Tris or Four. I rather it had been Tris. It made more sense. In justifying the ending on her blog, Veronica Roth said,

In Insurgent, before she’s “executed,” she [Tris] screams into nothingness, “I’m not done yet!”

In Allegiant, she asks her mother, “Am I done yet?”

And her mother says, “Yes. My dear child, you’ve done so well.”

Also it wasn’t until WHEN it happened, and Tris saw her mom, and Tris realized she was dying, and I accepted (because I flipped through 10, 15-20 of the next pages quickly) that it WAS real, I realized I KNEW that was happening all along. Subconsciously, the moment Veronica announced the book would be told from both Tris & Four’s perspectives, I knew Tris was dying. We ALL should have known. Why else introduce another narrator on the last book? (The Matched Series did it, but in that book’s defense there were THREE people- a love triangle- so it made sense).

But the ending. And Four’s response to the tragedy. It was real. It was raw. It was the best part of the book. If Four hadn’t grieved the way he did, if he hadn’t struggled and then chosen to move forward, I would have hated Allegiant. But what he went through was so real..

Yeah, sometimes life really sucks. But you know what I’m holding on for? The moments that don’t suck. The trick is to notice them when they come around.

And the book ends with Four saying this beautiful line:

But now, I am also learning this: We can be mended. We mend each other.

The epilogue made me wonder what Veronica went through to be able to write that. I don’t think that’s something you learn from talking to a friend who experienced a loss. That came from somewhere personal.

Different Perspectives

It’s been interesting hearing different perspectives to Allegiant over the past few weeks. I can sum them up in a few ways:

The likers because it’s Divergent or Veronica Roth and she can do no wrong

The legitimate likers

The haters because of the Ending

The haters because they were bored

If you think Veronica Roth can do no wrong

I struggle with this perspective the most. Sure, you’re entitled to that opinion, but it doesn’t make you less of a fan of a thing if you don’t love everything an author or creator does. It is okay to be a fan of something or someone & disagree with it. Kinda like when Rob Pattinson looked like a dinosaur at Comic Con. I definitely didn’t agree with that terrible, horrible, no good decision, but I still salivate anytime I see the GQ photo-shoot.

If you loved it, SAY THAT PROUDLY. Tweet it to Veronica Roth- she needs the encouragement.

If you’ve hated it because of the ending

I’ve found that people who hate the book solely because Tris is dead are.. young. I honestly haven’t found an adult who hates the book because Tris died. I think if Tris and Four had a happily every after, these people would start a religion with Allegiant as their Bible.

The haters because they were bored

This is where most people I know fall. And most people I know are grown-up women who love YA. So this category favors them most. And I wonder… why were Grown-woman who love YA bored? The science lessons throughout most of the book (do they kids love science these days?) Was it the fact that a whole new story was introduced with new characters we had no connection to? Was it that every 5 seconds someone new was dying and we couldn’t remember who was even alive anymore? All of the above?

What was up with the sex?

This book was more sexual than any of the ones she wrote before. It seemed like every 5 seconds Tris & Four were either fighting or making out up against the wall. I knew it was coming. I knew they were finally going to “do it” and when they did… I had to ask if they actually “did it!” Not exactly how you want to write a love scene.

I get it if Veronica wasn’t comfortable talking about “throbbing members” and stuff (it IS YA.. although I can name 7 books right now that do YA sex well), but to write something that had us questioning whether they just slept on the couch with their shirts off or if Tris actually got to touch Four’s throbbing member, well, as we said in book club, this was “Fade to Sad” to the umpteenth level. Veronica’s sex scene made Stephenie Meyer’s Breaking Dawn look like erotica.

Four was a whiney little girl

Besides that it felt like a science-text book for the majority of the time, what I disliked the most about Allegiant was that Four was so whiney. What happened to the strong, confident, dark & mysterious Four we loved from Divergent? When did he become this guy:

Maybe that’s why the sex scene was questionable. Who wants to have sex with a whiny, awkward dude? Not to say Four can’t have weak moments- he can. But the Four of pages 1-442 is not the same Four of the ending of Allegiant. His strength at the end is not consistant with the guy we see before Tris is gone.

I think Veronica Roth is a great author & fabulous storyteller. I haven’t written her off for all future books, but, Allegiant wasn’t for me. It wasn’t because Tris died, and it wasn’t for the lack-luster sex scene. Allegiant was just not what I hoped for for the final book in the Divergent trilogy.

What do you think? What camp do you fall into? Did Tris & Four have sex? Was Four a whiny annoying boy to you in this book? Anddd discussss:

I read the book the day it was released, and I probably couldn’t tell you any more about it than she died at the end. That’s how forgettable the book was. It makes me sad because this trilogy had so much potential. I agree with your assessment, besides the ending, the rest of the book left little to no impression on me.

Completely agree with you. I fall in your category – even though I would have liked if she had found a way to “kill” Tris that didn’t seem so… utterly useless. I just wanted to add as a girl who loves science that the “scientific aspect” was so bad that it got me completely out of the book. It wasn’t believable at all. I wanted to throw the book away but, well it was on my Kindle and I don’t want to break it. I don’t understand how we got from Divergent which was excellent to this. I’m so upset that my enthusiasm for the movie is at its lowest, and I find myself hoping that they change the whole plot of the last book so that it makes sense on screen – because let’s face it, if they respect the book it won’t be believable or enjoyable. And of course one of the worst thing was falling out of love with Four. Seriously.

So I think maybe I need your list of 7 books that do YA sex well in order to get better. ^^

Thank you for this review! 🙂 I think I can now go and re-write my review fully embracing my feelings over the book. I’ve written my review a few weeks bad and had no wish to post it because I wasn’t satisfied with it and at the same time couldn’t make myself re-write it. I’ve struggled with Allegiant, not because Tris died but mostly because of the science book feeling and Four of pages 1-442, and that questionable did they or didn’t they sex scene. I loved both of the previous books and I thought this was a fitting end to the series but it was clearly the weakest of the three. But I can’t disagree with you – I still think Veronica is a great storyteller and Divergent is still one of the better YA dystopian trilogies out there and totally worth reading! 🙂

yes! I’d still recommend Divergent overall.. I REALLY want to find someone to read Books 1-3 in a row & see what they think? I wonder if they’d feel differently? without having long stretches and breaks in between books?

Ooh! I just made my hubby read the books, so I’m waiting to hear his thoughts. 🙂 So far he said that he thought Divergent and Insurgent should have been incorporated into one book for a bigger “bang” at the end. And he’s picked up on sudden transformation in Four’s character in book 3. But he’s usually a very tough critic in general, so not sure it would be positive. He’s finishing Allegiant right now.
I’ve read the first two books back to back and then waited almost a year for the third and I think that did hurt a bit of my perspective. I wasn’t as into these characters picking up this book after so much time has passed. I didn’t care for them as much anymore.

Bekah, I just read all three books in a row. I finished Allegiant 20 minutes ago and my non-fiction reading husband is giving me looks for sobbing over a book. But to answer your question, I do NOT feel differently…pretty much feel the same way about everything. This book was so unbelievable and pretty boring, then the ending took me by surprise because I was not expecting such amazing heartfelt grieving…oh my god….had I known I’m not sure I would have read because life is sad enough without wallowing in it, though I agree the way Tobias grieved was the most authentic and real part of the book. I think I need to go find something smutty to read to cheer myself up…..

But that’s just it… she (like all of us) was NOT immersed in the world, because Roth YANKS us from that world in Insurgent. The fact that we have to keep reading about clothing color to remember that the factions exist at all is a clue to how uninvolved the factions become to the books by book 2. If it was SO part of them, then it would be part of them regardless of obvious clothing color tells. It’s written in first person after all. We should BE Tris. Instead we want to smack Tris in the head and say TALK TO FOUR ALREADY, GIRL.

Deanne

That’s me! I Started Divergent last week, powered through FAST, Read Insurgent really quickly as well, and then… stalled on Allegiant… It was just so… meh.

The dual narration was odd, unexpected, and poorly executed. When SM did it with Breaking Dawn I thought it was an odd choice (Midnight Sun!? Hello? Moar Edward please!) but it was done fairly well, it was always obvious whose head you were in, so it was a good storytelling device. But, I agree with everyone else. Tris and Tobias “sounded” too alike, I often had to check and see who I was reading. Fail #1

Fail # 2 for me was the story. Really? The Faction thing was all a Science Experiment? Wert? Well…, there’s a bit of a downer… People were watching them on screens the whole time? Yikes, that’s kinda creepy…. Woah wait, these “Government” types WANT more Divergents (aka Genetically Pure) peeps, but they let Jeanine kill a bunch of them?? WHAT? Uhm… that doesn’t make any sense, you’ve lost me there… If they can make all these serums, can’t they just test-tube some GP’s? Wouldn’t that be easier? Should I read that again? Nah… I can’t be bothered… …and then we go back to the Factions fighting, and more revolutions brewing and people wanting to overtake the government? Seems kinda futile to me…. let’s just all take that memory serum shall we?

It was so baffling I found it undermined the storytelling from the previous books by making it all seem meaningless.

By this time, I was starting to recall some grumblings from people saying they didn’t care for the last 2 books, so I might have Googled a few details (totes did), just so that I could read the damn book without dread, because I was getting to the point that I just didn’t want to pick it up anymore, so I just needed to KNOW.

Another fail for me was that “did they or didn’t they?” sex scene. First, for someone who spent a lot of detail on kisses and touching foreheads, and thumbs brushing chins and hip bones… THAT’S IT??? that’s ALL WE GET? No FAIR! and then we didn’t even get some sort of “Next-Morning-Awkward-Glance-of-Acknowledgement”? HELLS NO!! The kisses early on in Insurgent were hotter than that whole thing. Total Cop Out = Fail #3

Frankly, though I did not like that she killed-off Tris, (and Imma just gonna ignore the elaborate plot that lead there)….that section was probably the best written part of the book! and the Tobias stuff after was awful, but good awful, ugly cry, good, awful…. I didn’t really like it – but I could take it, I really could, IF the rest of the book was better!! (though I admit it – I prefer some sort of semi-happy ending okay? is that too much to ask of my entertainment? )

As it is, it’s just all so dissatisfying! Ugh.

I haven’t seen the Divergent movie yet – but, I’m not quite looking forward to it as much as I was last week. ~le sigh~ (except for the Tobias parts, will always be looking forward to those parts… though from what I hear there isn’t nearly enough kissing, or forehead touching… or thumbs in belt loops… ~le sigh~)

And… I’m pre-hurting for my daughter who is reading the series, is in the middle of Insurgent, and has asked me if Tris and Tobias break up and/or get married. Dang. Big Mommy Fail on that one.

OK, Bekah, long, and months after the original discussion, but I feel better for sharing my FEELS. Thnx.

Lynn

My daughter and I saw the movie Divergent and loved it. Then we read all three books in a row. Neither of us liked Allegiant. I hated the ending. Her death was stupid and senseless. I’m not going to lie–I definitely would have preferred her to live, as well as Four. I thought they were great characters, both separately and together, and didn’t really care to see either of them die after reading about them for three books.

However, I also fall into the other category, as well, as I thought the entire book was poorly written and made no sense. Her death is all the more frustrating and disappointing because of the ridiculousness that leads up to it. Her death really overshadows the whole series for me. I didn’t feel any hope or sense of triumph at the end. I would have also preferred a more promising ending for Tris and Four. But the end just feels so depressing. I’m glad some enjoyed it but I didn’t like anything about it. I’m fine if the screenwriters start from scratch on this one!

Jo

I’m in the same boat, saw the film then read all 3 books in a row. I agree – would have preferred Tris and Four with a happy ending. It was really sad for Four with Allegiant ending the way it did. It didn’t seemed as sad for Tris as she was able to join her parents at the end. But with Four he ended up alone again and considering what he had to go through growing up, it seemed a bit cruel to have given him that ending – really sad!

Caitlin

Personally, and im gonna be frank, I hated the movies. I read all 3 books in a day and then watched both movies the day after. They made the movies different and I hated them for that, they took the magic of Tris and Tobias away as they never kissed, held hands or did anything. In some ways, it was good, but there were too many ‘flaws’. I dont see how VR, as co-producer, let Tris be portrayed as dumb and cowardly, and Tobias didnt even have the right hair colour, like WTF. Tris’s hair was cut the wrong length and it left me infuriated. No, the movies were horrible and I will probably not see Allegiant, as it is devastating, not boring, and that the movies are lifeless. I’m sorry if you loved the movies but the books and an imagination is all you need with this series…

Kim

I was a huge fan of the Divergent series. I read both Divergent and Insurgent several times while waiting for Allegiant to be released. After finishing Allegiant, my first thought was – I never thought I’d find a book I hated more than Breaking Dawn.

In fact, Allegiant has turned me off of YA novels. I pulled the Fever series off my bookshelf and read about Jericho Barrons just to get Allegiant out of my brain.

And usually after finishing a series, I like to go back and re-read the first book, just to experience it again. I have no desire to read Divergent ever again. The characters are just done for me.

YEAH!! Love that book series. It’s amazing how everything tied together and was so well thought out from the very first book. When you reread (because it’s impossible not to), notice all the hints of what’s to come that she drops in book 1 about what happens in book 3, etc.

Also, notice how I must comment on anything Fever Series or Barrons related.

might be a fun re-read for book club… bet a lot of outlander fans would enjoy it

MariaCecilia

Bleargh! The Fever series is the only thing I’ve picked up from your excellent book club that I’ve been completely disappointed by. Barrons – undynamic. (That man may be built but he is NOT sexy! He has the charm and personality of a brick wall.) The writing – unimaginative and dull. The plot – repetitive and going in circles. The heroine – I’ve even forgotten her name – irritating. The only good thing was, she learned to kick ass after the first book and became slightly less irritating.
If I could hand over my Fever e-books to someone who wants them for free I’d do it because I’m not EVER going to re-read that series. Or Divergent or Matched for that matter. (Rant ends here.)

Alexandria

Yeah I can’t re-read it without thinking oh he dies she dies, and oh he doesn’t remember stabbing this butter knife in Edwards eye!! The worst death was Uriahs sorry it was!

Sarah

Yh thats true i croed but for tris i knew she was gonna die my friends did a spoiler alert

BeaDee

I finally got through the library hold list for Insurgent, and I’m probably not going to read it. Everybody says it’s not as good as Divergent and Allegiant is worse and… well… it’s the holidays and I have better things to do. Like make pie. I’ll come back to them if they actually make the movies.

aprilfcrain

Honestly… Don’t let all this stop you. Insurgent was my favorite. I was surprised constantly and I love how it doesn’t jump ahead in time like so many sequels do. It’s literally like you turned the page in Divergent and kept reading!! Give it a chance!

Lorena

HOW?! I just can’t understand how anyone could like Insurgent. It’s soooooooooooooooo boring and frustratingly whiny. What was surprising to you? Seriously I am curious, because nothing in the book surprised me except that it was published and Caleb’s character.

Maybe I need to reread it, but everyone seems to dislike insurgent, not as much as they hate Allegiant, but I liked Insurgent but I read both Divergent and Insurgent in the same day that usually helps… no anticipation.

I can think of another book other than the Matched series that introduced another narrator in the last book, perhaps you’ve heard of it… Breaking Dawn… I actually was a Breaking Dawn hater, the ending was too clean and tied up for me (take that Gayle Foreman) My fav book was Eclipse #leghitch but the two Breaking Dawn movies were my favorite movies and Eclipse was my least favorite. This gives me hope that Allegiant can be redeemed by the movie industry.

Yes- i think we discussed that during book club but i forget because of #wine… but i think the movie COULD be good.. b/c they won’t let it be boring. plus #eyecandy. why do i hashtag so much irl now? ugh

Blondieinco

I’m hoping for the same thing with Mockingjay. Catching Fire was sooooo good and I didn’t really love that book. Hopefully they can take Mockingjay and make it a great movie.

Melymori

Thank you for this review, I think I fall in two categories:

• The haters because of the Ending… And not only because Tris couldn’t had a happily forever after with Four, but because I found it a stupid and senseless death. And I do love the shock and mourning sensations when a beloved character dies for example in Harry Potter but in this case it felt almost like a joke and a predictable one which only makes it worst.
• The haters because they were bored…it took me a month to finish it, and I mostly read it over the treadmill because I needed something to numb my mind while running, I don’t even remember the sex scene, which is probably a good thing anyway.

And just like Kim, Allegiant has put me off from YA books, I only hope that it’s just for a little while.

“I found it a stupid and senseless death.” The second person to call it stupid & senseless.

Good point… sighhhh

Melymori

Yes! I would have rather if she got shoot in her butt and survived.

aprilfcrain

I enjoyed it… Yes I am a Divergent fan… And yes I did find some of it BORING. But as a whole, it didn’t annoy me as much as SO MANY other final books in a YA series including: Mockingjay ( yep I said it! Boring, confusing, RUSHED, hated it) Matched series, Delirium Series (worst ending to a 3rd book) and ESP Beautiful Creatures!!! THOSE stories just get worse and worse with each book. So I don’t get why do many people are in such a tizzy over Allegiant, I think Four was damaged in this book- w the whole I’m not divergent thing… While I found it a bit whiny. I think he was entitled to freak out a little bit. Poor guy has been through a lot (domestic violence anyone?) yet still in the end he pulled it together which I appreciated. I thought that was more real than if he had continued to be strong four through the entire book.
I’m totally ok w the ending and agree it was the best part of the book.
All in all, no it wasn’t my favorite but uh it beat half vampire babies and warewolves imprinting IMO. Haha yep. Said that too 🙂

i hated mockingjay but in a battle of the book endings i don’t know what i’d hate more.. i’d have to re-read mockingjay but NEVER

Lorena

It was so obvious that he wasn’t divergent though in the first book! Like it was almost clearly stated that he was able to avoid some simulations simply because he WANTED to do so.

God, Four’s character is so much more interesting than Tris’. I wish we’d gotten the second book from his POV instead.

Lucy

I must say I completely disagree about Four & the sex scene. Everybody’s calling him a whiny bitch as if he didn’t have any reasons to act and feel the way he did. I think we’re all so used to these (alleged) nearly flawless male leads, that when someone as human as Four comes around, we find it weird. Also, I don’t know what everyone was expecting the sex scene to be like. This is not 50 Shades Of Gray! I mean, didn’t you see how giggly and cheerful the two of them were the day after? Come on. ANYWAYS, to each their own, of course.

yes it’s YA so no one expects 50 shades of gray.. but like 94% of the people i talked to weren’t sure it WAS sex… or just a heavy hook up… and like i said… there are lots of YA novels that do innocent sex WELL!

Lorena

Lucy, I did not think Four was a whiny bitch. I just cared nothing about anyone in the books.

The makeout against the wall scene was the hottest scene in the book, and I read that like a month ago (finished the book last night on my flight home). The makeout in the sculpture could’ve been hot except I kept expecting them to fall or get shot by Four’s mom at any moment.

Anyway, the sex scene was questionable. In fact, it wasn’t until reading this post that I realized it may have actually BEEN a sex scene. Mostly because I didn’t care if they had sex because I wanted them to break up and Tris to start dating Matthew because he was *way* more interesting of a character by that point in the book, but… you know, whatever. Also because it was totally unclear. AND to solidify the unclearness AND the flawed male point you made — we get Four’s POV and all males WOULD HAVE thought about the sex in a crass way the next day. At least for a moment. He would have at least expressed it in his brain at some point during the long ass drive back to Chicago. No male would not think about FINALLY getting some of his hot gf’s tail the next day.

I must agree with you on all the points. I wasn’t so bothered about the ending, but just the entire book was so bleh.

The entire info dump with the whole genetics segregation thing … come on … its not that the science was messed up, its just the whole idea in this novel was so bogus! I didn’t buy it. You want to play with the effects of genetic discoveries, watch Gattaca, they did it right.

There was no action, so unlike the first two books, we were just sitting around not even knowing exactly what was going to happen.
Just, so disappointed.

Alexis

I am also young and every single one of my friends said they cried when Tris died, but I didnt. Now, if it had been Four, then yes I probably would have cried.

I agree with all of this. If Tris hadn’t died, Roth would’ve done her main character a huge disservice. I saw it coming early on, before I read the spoilers and then read Allegiant (well, most of it…I couldn’t even make myself finish it because I was so bored). I think Tris’ death is what she did RIGHT with that book. Nothing else in the book felt true to the characters I had fallen in love with in the other books. I also think many of the readers, myself included, clung tightly to the factions and were really interested in them, so the focus on the Bureau or whatever it was called was just…not what we signed up for. I think a trilogy is always tough to finish out and the readers, largely, will never be satisfied. Allegiant certainly didn’t take away from how much I loved the first two books. At the end of the day, Roth is a good writer. She’s getting people to read…even if they aren’t satisfied with what she chose to do with her characters.

So glad you posted this as I had to miss the Boozy Book club when you discussed. I really felt no connection to Allegiant. I can’t say I hated it as much as Mockingjay (which I really hated) – but I agree, the ending redeemed it a bit. But generally I felt the same with Mockingjay and Allegiant – disjointed, no emotional connection, blah….

But whatever. I assumed they did not have sex because Tris is an idiot. But whatever. I’d read Lokane fanfic recently and that was much better (and not M rated).

(yawn) It took the fact that I’d already ready 60% of the book for me to actually finish the book. I knew someone was going to die and I assumed it was Tris because Four couldn’t die based on who his character was at the core. It was much more realistic he’d take memory serum than die.

“I think Veronica Roth is a great author & fabulous storyteller.”
I don’t agree with this. I think she is a good author and a good storyteller. Fabulous is just… too superlative. (and makes me question your taste ;)) But in all seriousness, Divergent was a SOLID book. I can say she is a great author and fabulous storyteller based on Divergent. Then she wrote those other two books and I realized that she’s just as green as any new author and needs more time to flesh out story and character and plot and pacing. Mostly pacing.

Her world building was so amazing in Divergent, and then she just destroyed it in Insurgent and Allegient. I cared nothing about the characters by the middle of Insurgent and because I wanted to know WTF the rest of the world was like I had to read Allegient. Otherwise no. And if THAT is why your readers are reading, then you are not a great author or fabulous storyteller.

Let’s put it this way: Divergent inspired me to write another novel. Insurgent inspired me to quit reading books for 6 months. Allegient inspired me to see if Broadchurch was available on my flight so I could see some quality storytelling to erase my mind of the book.

So, yes, I agree that Roth could write more great things. But she should move out of YA for one, because clearly it’s not her style, and she should really focus on what her lead character’s story actually is and tell that. In Divergent she did that. She told Tris’ story. It could have ended with her getting top marks and then taking a job to be with Four. It could’ve ended there and been absolutely fantastic. Because that WAS Tris’ story. Instead Roth wanted to tell Four’s story and so she wrote two more books in order to do so. Insurgent should have been from Four’s POV because that book was actually about him (since Tris spent the whole effing book trying to cope alone with her guilt unnecessarily). The fact that Roth has now come out with ALL of this other Four writing says to me that she really just wanted to tell HIS story, not Tris’. That she realized Tris’ story was over when she became the best of Dauntless. That was HER transformation and she didn’t grow from that point forward.

Anyway. (long sigh) Glad this post came out right around when I bothered to finish the book 😉

Katie

After read the series back to back in one weekend, it seems to me that Roth didn’t nearly put enough thought into Tobias’/Four’s voice. It isn’t distinct enough from Tris’ in Allegiant and I often felt confused and frustrated that I couldn’t really tell the two apart at times. From the beginning of Divergent, it is obvious that Four and Tris think very differently. If Insurgent would have been from Four’s perspective, and I mean done well, I think the dual perspective we see in Allegiant would have worked and not so blatantly revealed that Tris was going to die, something I believe could have been better if it was more of a surprise. My criticisms about the books aside, I think Roth is brave to kill off the main character of her series, being as beloved as she was. It shows that the protagonist, and thus the reader, doesn’t always get what they want, but that yes it can be done in a way that is meaningful, as Tris wouldn’t have left any other way, and that can be even better than the happily ever after that we expect (aka Hunger Games epilogue…bleh). Killing Tris in a meaningful way, and then having Four come to terms with life after her was perhaps Roth’s best decision in Allegiant. It proves that life does and must go on after deaths. For the disbanded factions. For Four. For all of us.

Also can we talk about how PETER WAS SUCH A DISAPPOINTING CHARACTER TO LIVE.

Aloki

Great post! I think we all needed to have a group cathartic moment to move on.

I listened to Allegiant on audiobook so the Four wussy inner musings really hit home hard. Hearing a male voice read those words just felt off. I actually didn’t mind the alternating POV (loved it in Reached to end the Matched series) it just became so apparent that Veronica Roth struggled to write the way a male thinks and processes feelings. In the first few books we grew to love this amazing Four from his actions through The Tris POV but his “thoughts” just seemed like another version of Tris. It wasn’t until she died that our Four we fell in love with was back.
I’m fine with the ending even though I didn’t think it was necessary Tris died. However, the death through epilogue were the most well written and “true” parts of the book for me.
I do worry that Tris dying may effect the movie series as a whole. I am/was sooooo excited about the movies but that was dimmed somewhat knowing the main character isn’t going to make it. Seems risky to have the info out there before the first movie even comes out.
All that said – I liked the end of Allegiant better than Mockingjay. I know it has its nay-sayers but Reached (Matched) does a great job of wrapping up a dystopian YA series if you want some realistic tradgey but still have the main characters live some type of HEA.
As for the sexy times? Bring on that list of YA non-fade to sad yummy times please. We all need it!

MariaCecilia

What she said. Couldn’t agree more with Bekah. Except for one thing: after book 1 I would also have leaned towards the opinion that Veronica Roth was a good storyteller. But after reading book 2 and 3 I’m more leaning towards the opinion that Veronica Roth was a writer who came up with a good dystopian idea – the Factions – and two intriguing characters – Four and Tris – and after the first book didn’t quite know what to do with them.
If she writes something completely different on a level with Divergent, I’ll put her on my list again, but right now, I’m not expecting anything much.
(Demanding bitch? – yes I know. But there are too many GOOD books in the world to waste your time on the so-so ones.)

So, I have to come out of my lurker hole to comment on this one…You, my friend, have made me feel like I’m not alone as well as summed up my own feelings in a way I couldn’t do myself.

Based on Amazon comments I read too many of, I thought I was all alone in not wanting to murder Veronica over the ending. While I didn’t like that she killed off Tris, I saw it coming and don’t understand how no one else did (or so I thought). It was the only logical step. One place we differ is I was angry that the end was so obvious (to me) and that she didn’t give me a twist. For example, after Four’s perspective (after Tris dies), she could have faded to a hospital scene where Tris was saved by some miracle “life” serum the bureau was hoarding! Would that have been too much of a shocker, really? Then Tris would still have her whole ending but with a happy surprise twist. I dunno, that’s all I would have liked in my romance.

I do agree with you on everything else and how YOU. COMPLETE. ME. For serious. I haven’t been able to articulate how I feel about the book because it was just so damn boring I don’t really even remember anything but the end. And it really was a well written ending. Four’s grief is so palpable.

Also, for me, I felt the switch between characters to be jarring because their voices read the same to me. I kept having to peek back for a reminder of which character it was

Okay. Sorry if you struggled to read this. My migraine brain has killed too many brain cells to be coherent.

one thing TN is good for- making sure you know you’re not alone!!!! xo

JellyBeanRainbow

Two months later and I finally finished Allegiant. I almost didn’t.
It was boring.
I thought they didn’t have sex .
I was expecting someone to die and didn’t even care who it will be.

It’s almost like Hunger Games trilogy, the first book was so promising and the next two were kind of disappointing.
Stphenie Meyer comes to my mind at this moment and I’m starting to think Twilight series was a masterpiece, those books didn’t disappoint at all. ( or Harry Potter series)

Macey Johnson

In an interview, she said she wanted to leave it up to the viewers in what happened in the sex scene. She has her own idea of what it was, but won’t say.

Macey Johnson

Veronica said that she had new that Tris was going to die when she was writing Allegiant. In Divergent and Insurgent Tris comes close to death, but Veronica said that if she died then it would have been less powerful. She didn’t want Tris and Tobias’s love story to be “and they lived happily ever after” and got married, had kids, ect. She wanted Tris to have a memorable and powerful ending. In the other books she learned what death really was about and what sacrificing yourself really was. To sacrafice yourself you should have a good reason and do it out of love. In her death she showed her most powerful traits. Being selfless and brave. I personally loved the ending and loved how she stuck to what she wanted to do, not what the fans wanted.

I don’t think the people were upset with Tris’ story, it was more about Four.

Macey Johnson

Yeah, I was so disappointed with how Four wasn’t officially Divergent. It was a special connection they both had with each other and it was taken away from him. Then when he found out, he started acting like a baby. It’s ok to show your sadness, but he completely lost it. And I felt like he just had a pity party the whole story and that was suppose to be a big plot twist when really it just ruined the story. I felt like Allegiant didn’t tie up the plot well and that it felt like a completely different story. I also wish Tobias died instead of Tris. Also, I HATE CALEB!!!!!!!!!!!

SG

I am still reading Allegiant and have been skipping around for the important parts (i do that). I already know the ending.
When i first started reading Allegiant, I knew that there HAD to be some sort of sex scene, considering a) tris and tobias are CONSTANTLY making out and b) it was an obstacle in her fear landscape. So naturally, i immediately started fishing around for that part of the book becuase i had to know for sure.
And then i finally found that notorious “sex scene” and was so confused. From a plot standpoint, that should have been the actual thing. But the way she wrote it….is ambiguous even the proper word for it? Because she was so graphic and yet did not specify in any way at all what it actually was, not even vaguely. I mean, i understand not wanting to be pornographic, but at least make make the intentions a little clearer

You know what ELSE is weird? It WAS one of the obstacles in her fear landscape, yet… that’s like.. NEVER brought up again..

Liz

When I first read Divergent, i was sucked in, couldn’t put the book down. Insurgent wasn’t as great but it was still good, but then i read Allegiant and I got bored.

I wasn’t the biggest fan of the duel perspective but I get why she did it. What bothered me the most was the entire backstory for Divergent and the factions. It was a weird take that I didn’t see coming. It was new, but there was so much being crammed in, in so little space that when it wasn’t boring, it was confusing. And I get that Veronica wanted to elaborate on Tobias’ story, give him layers…but I think we lost part of him when she tried to make him more relatable and vulnerable. In the end, I’m still a huge fan of the series.

Also, when I heard Veronica explain why she ended up killing Tris, I totally let go about my feelings for the end. It really made you put down the book and process what happened…like an aha moment instead of a little freak out girl moment

mamagnosis

Loved Divergent, liked Insurgent, disappointed about Allegiant. I just felt that Roth was going to expand on something bigger than genes. I get the whole government control thing but, I just wish it was something beyond that. What about focusing on David’s superiors? They just happened to be cool with everything? Roth had a great story, but it just lacked the bigger picture.

Zahboss

Lol Tris and Four fucked so hard she died choking on his d***

kaddie24

I’m an adult. I hated the end. Yes, because Tris dies. I was so f-ing depressed after. On the other hand, after her death, I felt was the best writing in the whole book- Four was fantastic. This book made me realize, I’m a happily ever after girl. Just who I am. I don’t want to be sad and man, this book made me sad. I can’t even imagine watching it on the big screen. Water works. Other than that- I had several questions/realizations and agree with many of what you wrote, and many that caused me to really feel that the book wasn’t good. Did they do it? I think so, but I wanted it to be spelled out, then I thought, dang this is a 16 year old I’m hoping will get some. weird. Why was Four so whiny? I kept waiting for Evelyn to say, JK I don’t choose you. Where was Evelyn living the last two years? Etc. etc. I loved the first two, but I doubt I’ll ever read Allegiant again.

Chelsea

I’m not saying V. Roth is perfect, but I loved every single book in the series, including Allegiant. I actually like Allegiant the best! Roth seems to become a more thorough and intelligent writer as the story progresses (or boring as you say). I value that in a book. I loved this series! I savoured every moment all the way up until the sad, yet necessary, ending.

disqus_YyvEwwvDMB

While I do agree that the book was not exactly the most interesting for the most part, I do believe Tris’ death and Tobias’ following grief is what pulled the book together.
Two things I didn’t like about the book one bit though is one, the number of people that just died all the time and two, like you said, the “sex” scene wasn’t exactly a sex scene or even close to one. Although Veronica has said she wasn’t thinking about the readers when she wrote it and just the story and I do not disagree with her about that being the right thing to do, she left a little too much to the imagination, not quite leaving us with anything concrete to imagine at all.
However, I didn’t hate the book as much as all of you seem to, surprisingly. Initially, yes, I found it difficult to accept the two character perspective, but it was interesting to see from Tobias’ point of view. I disagree about him being a whiny, little girl though. The only reason he appeared so weak is because he was finally being himself because of Tris, which is what the author was trying to convey, in my opinion.

Sorry about the long post, but overall, I think as a SERIES, it was good. Started off great, Insurgent was not better than Divergent, but it was an interesting read nonetheless and Allegiant’s ending sort of, you know, was a good way to end the series.

It was really good to hear all of your opinions.

Grace Corpron

I’m basically under 13, and I don’t know what to think about Allegiant. I loved it but I hated it. The ending was great, just really sad, but also imbuing/inspirational.

Maggie

I think four is vulnerable in the last book because he was exposed , in insurgent he slowly started breaking down with the confession of his father beating him , talking with his mother , amongst other things . In the last book he was kind of lost with his emotions and problems , he was trying to figure out how to go on and explore his relationship with his mother and what to do about his dad. He also blames himself for making hasty decisions , and getting people killed in his act . I think he just wants to be understood and accepted and he finally got that from his mother and then he had to deal with tri’s death when everything was going well for him . So as you can see his past and events have left him vulnerable , I wouldn’t say his weak at all .

Maggie

Also in divergent four was vulnerable as well . He was just good at hiding it . The only time we got insight of him was when he was with tris . About the sex scene I think she vaguely described for young viewers or probably just to leave it up for interpretation . Overall I think the series and allegiant was wonderful . The last book especially taught you many things about love , fear, values , bravery etc . The plot was great and all three books connected together .

Caitlin

I agree, Tobias was always vulnerable, he could just always hide it really well.. and if dem people wanna think otherwise, they didnt read the book properly. I also agree about the sex scene, people I know are in year 5 and reading it so… ya. You could tell in the last book that Tobias felt so happy when Tris and him held hands or she put her hands on his shoulders, and especially when they kissed. Dont get me wrong, I was DEVASTATED, but it was right, because people would say through out the series, once a stiff, always a stiff, and she proved them for the better. I dont know if i will get over it, but i will try, becuase Veronica was right to do it. Once a stiff, always a stiff.

india

To be honest i loved the text book of Allegiant. The reason i love dystopian so much is because its really interesting to learn about why they are like that and so forth. I do also think that tris did deserved to die if that makes sense…not in a bad way like boo tris sucks but in a way that is like you deserve a good ending. I do agree however with the fact that i thought that tris and four where either making out or hating each other throughout the last two books.

Jane

In your categories, you left out a fifth group, and honestly I think this is the actual majority:

The haters who disliked the book because it was just a poorly written book that made no sense, veered so far away from the original premise that it didn’t even belong in the same series, insulted the intelligence of any person who ever took a science class, and served as what will surely be a textbook example of what happens when the editors and publishers are so assured of a series’ success that they don’t even try to make sure the final book is actually well-edited and well-crafted because they know people are going to buy it anyway.

I feel like my “bored” category would fit you.. i was just trying to be a BIT nicer… but … i agree :/ ugh whyyyy VR. WHYYYY?

Jane

I don’t know if I was really bored so much as just really annoyed by the book. I think my irritation kept me too hyper to notice if I was bored or not. 🙂

Lynn

I agree with this, too!

Jennifer

I completely agree.

Jesse

I couldn’t like it, and I’m not sure which category I fit into but, I read books to live and love and hurt and experience every gut wrenching emotion vicariously through words, but it just wasn’t good for me, in my opinion tris’s character development was beautiful and Four’s/Tobias’s was disappointing, he’s getting into politics? What the fuck? He is supposed to be somewhat of an enigma and I understand that he’s not like his father but one of his four fears is becoming him, and what was his fathers profession? Politician. And I had no serious problem with tris dying, I loved her character, as I love any ballsy strong female lead but I feel like F/T should have known what she would do. What is her lifelong goal? Make her parents proud, what did her parents believe in? Selflessness, and she’s not about to send her big bro to his death when she thinks she can survive the serum, that would be selfish. Also I hated that Tori never got to see George again, that was the saddest part for me.

Jane

The whole premise of that final plan was completely preposterous and contrived – I did not believe that Tris would ever propose that they implement such a thing; I did not believe that they would agree to something so stupid; I did not believe that they wouldn’t bother to think of anything else in the 48 hours they had to work with; I did not believe that they would give no thought to any alternatives when this first dumb idea would mean someone had to die. It was not believable on any level, especially when alternatives DID exist.
The ending was completely predictable the moment Caleb volunteered to go on this idiotic mission. But by far the most annoying thing about this book is that it then goes on chapter after chapter after chapter acting like it’s NOT completely obvious what’s going to happen now. Between these two issues, and the totally ridiculous explanation for Chicago, I feel like this book was just one long exercise in insulting the reader’s intelligence.

Lynn

Yes!! I completely agree with this. I whole premie was so ridiculous. I would also add the ridiculous insta-family reunion between Four and Evelyn. Totally didn’t believe that, either.

Ana

I just finished the series… My friend read the first two and told me to read them they are great, unfortunately I read faster than her, so I finished the third book before she started. Haha. They book felt a little too much like Brave New World. Not sure if any of you know that book. But man, the thing that irritated me through this whole book was Four. WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED TO HIM?? Why did she distort that character and then wait until the very end to redeem him?? This was my first YA book that had the main character die, and I usually don’t have a problem with it, IF it’s meaningful. I don’t really feel that this one was. It’s not that I wanted a happy ending or anything, but the death just felt a little senseless, like she just wanted shock value. I don’t know….

Alexandria

Ok I hated Allegiant mostly because now I can’t re-read divergent without thinking oh well you die! And then the reason why I am most mad is because Uriah died!!! Ugh I still love u Uriah!!!

Rina Mendoza

I think the texts between my sister and I sum up perfectly how I feel about this book

“Shaking my head at this book”
“Haha why?”
“Meh, I don’t even know if I care why”

And seriously I can’t even decide why I’m disappointed. My sister didn’t like the entire thing because it got too complicated. Too much going on. I love complicated and I love more story lines, etc. But not if you’re really gonna take it there and develop it. I don’t expect Roth to know all the answers but most of it felt too surface-level and too loose-ended. And too easy. I would have been more intrigued by great mastermind plans that ran into complications and it wasn’t that easy to overtake the government than by, like you said, not remembering who was alive or dead. The only plan that failed was Nita’s and that’s only because tris is apparently such a mastermind at plans that she was able to foil it.

I do agree that it was better that tris died instead of four. And although Four was kind of whiny, Tris was a self-righteous bitch most of the book too.

That’s all I have to say for now. I just finished it so I have to process some more. Not sure if I care enough about this book to though.

Austin

I don’t think four was any more whiny than the other books it’s just that we saw it from his point of view. We got all of his thoughts and opinions. Maybe he thought like this the whole time and he just hid it.

BeeGee

Read Allegiant the day it came out and was BORED!!!! And Disgusted. Over it ALL… You know the feeling.

Then I watched the Divergent trailer the other day and entered into recovery. I read Divergent and Insurgent back to back and then tackled Allegiant again.

Lo and behold, reading all together informed me that Allegiant was written by the same author and did relate somewhat to the other two. At the end I even felt moved (and fairly convinced that 4 and Tris had probably really had full penetration sex). Almost went back to Amazon and gave another couple of stars.

Try it — builds character.

Lore

I’m 43, so not particularly young, and yes, I hated it mainly because she killed Tris. No, actually, more so, because she killed her and then was on her blog saying she didn’t do it for shock value. Yeah. Right. So many other good books out there, and what a waste of my time this turned out to be.

Arielle

so I’m just coming off of reading (and re-reading the first 2) the trilogy, and I actually didn’t hate allegiant. I know, I know, tell me what horrible taste I have and how I must not have read the book you read. But it’s true I did.
Admittedly I couldn’t get into the split perspective easily, and the new world arc seemed contrived. It felt like Roth was throwing away all this great worldbuilding she did for the old “it was all a dream” schtick. I mean there was just so much going on, maybe it merited another book, just because I felt like we got such little time with this new world. And the 2 perspectives didn’t click with me immediately bc I felt like we really knew Tris inside and out and in some ways we were still getting to know Four for ourselves, not just through Tris’s eyes (if that makes sense). But I felt like the way things went down was true to the spirit of the series and the characters themselves.
Maybe I’m a masochist, but as much as I hated Tris’s death it had to happen. In no way is a dystopian YA novel gonna have a “happy ending” without a significant death. It just doesn’t happen. I feel the same way about Allegiant as I did Mockingjay: they both were devastating but necessary. I’ll agree that as soon as Caleb volunteered to die that i knew Tris was going to not only bc that’s who she is, but also bc I knew that she was uncomfortable w/ it, as much as she liked to act otherwise.
I didn’t feel bored by the book at all. Just thrown for a loop with this new world. I want to know more. What was happening in the world when this Purity War took place? What was happening before that? And what about after the story ends? Like they said they were lobbying for change but I have a feeling that it’s not gonna change much. Idk. I just wish there was another book to answer/flesh out the world outside the fence. I feel like the factions are meaningless and were a hard loss.
Nonetheless, I’ll probably read it again to get new perspective.

I was so excited to read Allegiant after reading the Four pov novella. However, the Four in Allegiant is an imposter. The two are not even slightly the same. Who is the faker who body snatched my favorite boy in a book ever? Who is he? Where did he come from? And why? Why? Why? This makes me ragey. So ragey. Peregrine will heal me though because he doesn’t get body snatched in Into the Still Blue, and that gives me hope.

PS This was my favorite series. Now it is not.

danchelly

I liked the third book because its was interesting, hated it because she died and really? Ok if they stayed together they were going to be the next edward and bella … But too much for me.

I do prefer tris to die than four, i hated that he acted like a girl the whole book…
Havent finished the last book because i just dont want to be angry because of the sex scene and that tris gets killed..
Im a big fan and i loved all the books but i really think she could have made a better ending for the great story divergent is..

But really in a period a less than a year he finally finds his true love and is happy.. She gets to see the world for the first time, she is free and finally grows up and has the this amazing guy. But yeah she dies thats f* stupid… So now he gets back to nothing and acting like nothing happened and he never knew tris.

Cass

I might be classified as young because I’m 15. But I want to discuss, hating the book because Tris died.
I didn’t hate the book because tris died but I did hate the fact that she had to die. After Caleb volunteered to sacrifice himself to go to his death, I was crying and didn’t stop until the book ended. I knew that Tris would take Caleb’s place, especially after that speech Tobias gave to Tris about it being respectable to sacrafice yourself for someone you love. I’m actually surprised Veronica didn’t make Tobias blame himself a but for Tris’ death.
I really disliked having the opinions from both Tris and Tobias because I found my self thinking it was the other person until there was something that hinted otherwise and then I’d have to go back to the start of the chapter to check.
I didn’t hate the book it just wasn’t my favourite. It almost felt like I was starting a new series with all the new characters and locations, along with hardly any connections/similarities to the first two books. But, Veronica did an awesome job and wrapping it up, even if I did use a whole box of tissues.

I am so late to the game with this, but I want to add that I read all of the books right in a row while I was on vacation a couple months ago. I LOVED Divergent… until I got to Allegiant. I wish I had never read it.

I’m not someone who absolutely needs a happy ending (although I definitely prefer one.. this world is sad enough thankyouverymuch), and the fact that Tris died isn’t what made me hate the book… it’s the story that led up to it. Tris’ death WAS senseless. Their plan was stupid, and frankly the whole plot was stupid. If Roth wanted to kill Tris right from the beginning, she should’ve written a completely different plot leading up to it… make Tris’ death necessary and unavoidable and not part of some ridiculous idea in a plan that didn’t make sense to begin with. And WHY would the bureau want to help Janine kill the Divergent? And if the government was there watching them the whole time, why even give that video to Abnegation to hold onto and release? Why not just send someone in with it when it was time? The whole thing made no sense. I wish they would’ve just stuck with the original idea at the end of Insurgent that the Divergent needed to go out into the world to help save the rest of it… throw them into a war raging outside and at the final battle, have Tris throw herself in front of Four to save him, ultimately getting herself killed but having him survive. I still would’ve been devastated, but I could’ve went along with that kind of death. Also…. whyyyyy would David, who was in love with her mother and whose job it was to make sure the Divergent repopulated, KILL the strongest Divergent of them all? I think my anger toward this book came because it made no sense, didn’t mesh well with the other two books, and it felt like Roth just rushed through it to get it done while being distracted by preparations for the Divergent movie.

I found a fan fiction book online called Determinant that looks promising. I’m currently re-reading the first two books again and finishing with that one… maybe I can erase Allegiant from my brain. haha.

AJ Smith

I know its cliche but… I’m in the “If you’ve hated it because of the ending” category, and heres the cliche part… I’m 16. BOOM. but legit I cannot believe that a YA novel would rip your hear out so much! It is a dang YA novel! Its supposed to end as a happily ever after like, just examples don’t think I’m saying it is even close to this crap, Twilight or even the amazing Hunger Games series! I’m sorry but I wasn’t ready to dies like this, I for one could have used a disclaimer at the beginning of the series that says don’t read if you don’t want me to rip your heart out of your chest, taunt you with it by holding it in front of you, then jump all over it like it is nothing and I shouldn’t have been stupid enough to fall in love with anything or one or character… Thanks for reading I know CLICHE.

Megan

Okay, so you know how in Divergent when Tris was ziplining and when she looked over she saw her reflection on the building? I think in the last movie when Tobias is dumping her ashes while ziplining, he should look over and instead of seeing his reflection on the building, he should see Tris’… What do you think?

MADSTA

FOUR IS HOT THOUGH

MADSTA

sex with him would be good

blaise

I agree with the sounding too alike thing. Practically every chapter I had to check to see who’s perspective I was reading from. Sometimes I’d get halfway through and realize it was the wrong person and would have to start over.

That also kind of gave away the fact that she was going to die. Why all of a sudden bring in a different narrator if you aren’t going to introduce a different writing style unless the main narrator is going to at some point no longer be able to narrate….

Jennifer

Actually for your opinion my mom dad and I all disliked the book because of how poorly Veronica Roth killed off Tris. Caleb could have come running in and shot David. Or Tobias should have had Tris in his arms when Tris slipped into the other world.

Jo Ann

I could have not said it better Jennifer. Allegiant is definetly where the story fell apart. It literally made no sense to kill Tris off with two bullets after she survived the death serum. What?! In my opinion the author built Tris and Tobias’ relationship from volatile into a solid one. After Tris lost both her parents, Tobias said he would be her family. Maybe Veronica forgot what she wrote?? After Veronica murders Tris, the story starts to circle the bowl,finally going down the sewer when Evelyn does a 180 deciding she now wants to be a devoted mother. Um…that is ludicrous.

Caitlin

Am i the only one who loved the factions? the order they had? How happy Tris friggin was in Dauntless? all i can say is that I wish it wasnt the factions that had to be broken…