For any Christians out there that has said things such as, "I know MY God is real, yours is a joke", and things like that, are you kidding me? You have as much proof that your 'god' ever even existed or does exist. Don't tell people that their religion isn't right or this one is stupid. Yours makes just as much sense. And trust me, it doesn't have much sense at all.

True. But even I don't beleive in this. But what people say is absolutely ridiculous. I don't beleive in any huge religion, as from my name, but the only reason certain people beleive a certain religion is because it sounds like it makes the most sense. That's pretty much how all religions are started. And if you think about it, religion is terrible. It's killed so many people, just so other people could have their way. Some people are messed up, but for those who respect and appreciate other people's beliefs, you're the ones who can tell those no-good, self-centered, incompitant morons that they're going to "hell". Or whatever bad place they believe in.

Religionless wrote:...but for those who respect and appreciate other people's beliefs, you're the ones who can tell those no-good, self-centered, incompetent morons that they're going to "hell".

Doesn't that seem just the teensiest bit inflammatory to you? I know that many of us on this forum have good relationships with people of faith, and we get a good discussion out of them, but we tend to stop short of telling them they're going to hell. What we tend to do (and please forgive my sweeping generalisation here) is to ridicule the ridiculous, but respect those who respect us.

Religionless wrote:And if you think about it, religion is terrible. It's killed so many people, just so other people could have their way.

Astute observation, but I would argue with your interpretation. When a religious leader or a religious group is in a position to do harm, then they are too powerful and need to be brought back to Earth again. That is what we want to do. We want to stop religious fundamentalists devaluing science in the classroom, and we are using satire and ridicule to bring them down. I don't think religion is terrible per se, I think it is terrible when it has too much power and influence.

Anyway, welcome to the forum Religionless, please read the rules (like where you're supposed to make your first post!) and enjoy yourself.

"I don't mean to sound bitter, cynical and cruel; but I am, so that's how it comes out." Bill Hicks."One should not believe everything one reads on the internet." Abraham Lincoln"Are you OK?" daftbeaker (<-- very good question, people should ask it more often.)

Religionless wrote:... but the only reason certain people beleive a certain religion is because it sounds like it makes the most sense.

I would argue that the reason most people believe in their religions is that they were brought up with them. Just look at the geographic distribution of religions. People mostly just follow the religion they were taught as a child, without ever seriously questioning whether it is the one that makes the most sense. To them I say "Baaa-aaa-aaa-aaah"!

We are here to critique Intelligent Design, not bash religion or religious, many whom disagree with ID. Are their opinions of ID not worthy? This is not an atheist forum - we are from all walks of life.

There are more constructive ways to discuss personal opinion, but would concur with Roy - read the forum rules.

But that's just it. Because they grew up with this certain religion, they are too scared to question it. And I don't beleive in hell either. It's ridiculous, and I've been told that I'm going to go to hell, even by my friends. That just tears my heart out. Just because I (or anyone else) who doesn't believe in their religion, means they're going to suffer for it. And no one even knows if their religion is right. and don't tell me, "well the Bible says so." That's no proof. That's like picking up a Harry potter book, holding it in front of your face and saying, "It says it in here. It must be true." Who knows, maybe FSM is right. Thats what "god" wants people to believe because that is the right way. I don't believe there is one right way though. Whatever you beleive is true (to yourself), and it goes the same way for everyone else. If life were like that, wouldn't it just be grand?

And my bad for the whole "Christians" thing for the subject title. But usually those kind of people tell other people they're wrong. If Christiantiy isn't the right religion, those kind of Christians are in trouble... (by their belief)

First of all FSMism is an open and ackowledge parody i.e a Joke i.e Not a genuine religion. Secondly its fine and dandy for some of you to say that you are not here to taunt and belittle people but the reality is otherwise. You respect those who respect you? Well what did Rastafarians ever do to you to recieve the treatment We have? The truth of the matter is that the very survival of this played out joke comes at the expense of the religious. Its some kind of athiest vengance complex born of intolerance for people that don't bow down to relativist scientific supremacy wish wash, in fact its the same menatlity that manipulated religious ideology to abuse people just reversed, enforced atheism. Its all the same cast of charachters. Power hungry vampires lashing out in vexation. There's absolutely nothing to justify openly mocking people of faith like you do to Rastafarians other than the fact that intolerant and violent hatred is the life blood of your pretense to rational. Most likely a conflicted conscience of those desperatly wanting to come to g-d yet slavishly ruled by an ego resisting the exposure of its limitations.

Sorry, elijah, but people who post stuff like you just did almost make me despair for the human race.

Faith is fine. Nowhere does scripture say that you have to follow an organised religion to have faith; in fact Jesus Himself had an issue with the people who gain power over others by imposing organised religion (read what He did to the people in the temple, and the parable of the widow).

As I see it, no person is being ridiculed here, just the hubris of one particular small branch of organised religion trying to muscle in on science lessons with allegory being touted as fact!

I certainly haven't felt threatened here in any way for my faith. But that might be because I use the brain I have and I think for myself. I concentrate on the basics of my faith and not the trappings of the Church. I don't need to believe in the religious heirarchy to believe in an all-powerful God. I also don't need to believe in an anthropomorphic all powerful God in order to believe that there is a spiritual dimension to existence. I certainly don't need to be told by other people that what they believe is the whole truth and everyone else with any other faith is intrinsically wrong and will go to hell - which is the stated position of a lot of so-called Christians.

By the way, anyone who follows a Protestant tradition is following in the footsteps of people who thought for themselves; why can you not see that God (the God of any religion, not just yours) is too big to be confined by a few words in one book or other! Ask yourself if organised religion is so right and must not be questioned, ever, why are there so many different 'Christian' sub-groups? Why is there not just one, all-powerful, Church?

If you find your faith challenged by parody and the ridicule of the position of the ID proponents, then perhaps it isn't as strong as you think it is.

"Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens."("Against stupidity, the gods themselves contend in vain.")-- Friedrich Schiller (1759–1805)Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.-- Philip K DickWhat happens when all the renewable energy runs out?-- Victoria AylingEnglish isn't much of a language for swearing. When I studied Ancient Greek I was delighted to discover a single word - Rhaphanidosthai - which translates roughly as "Be thou thrust up the fundament with a radish for adultery."

elijah wrote:First of all FSMism is an open and ackowledge parody i.e a Joke i.e Not a genuine religion. Secondly its fine and dandy for some of you to say that you are not here to taunt and belittle people but the reality is otherwise. You respect those who respect you? Well what did Rastafarians ever do to you to recieve the treatment We have? The truth of the matter is that the very survival of this played out joke comes at the expense of the religious. Its some kind of athiest vengance complex born of intolerance for people that don't bow down to relativist scientific supremacy wish wash, in fact its the same menatlity that manipulated religious ideology to abuse people just reversed, enforced atheism. Its all the same cast of charachters. Power hungry vampires lashing out in vexation. There's absolutely nothing to justify openly mocking people of faith like you do to Rastafarians other than the fact that intolerant and violent hatred is the life blood of your pretense to rational. Most likely a conflicted conscience of those desperatly wanting to come to g-d yet slavishly ruled by an ego resisting the exposure of its limitations.

A few questions, if you don't mind...

Does the treatment of rastafarians you mention include anything other than use of the word "pastafarianism"?

Do you know that there are multiple religous people on this forum?

Exactly who are you refering to as being a "power hungry vampire lashing out in vexation", or as having "enforced atheism"? Neither of those have anything to do with the official FSM movement.

Are you seriously basing a claim of "intolerant and violent hatred" merely on the fact that we use the word "pastafarian"?

You know, I still don't recall seeing any thread where good ol' 'Lije actually says whether he is a Rastafarian or not. He sure gets indignant on their supposed behalf. But he never contributes to the conversation, nor answers direct questions. He just rants.