Doesn't matter who we need when the competition is spending 630 Million on F1 in a single year. Ferrari has a large budget, but it's not that damn large! That's pretty hard to beat, as evidenced by the last 3 years.

Oh please, money is not the reason Ferrari is losing to Red Bull. In fact, they have been the biggest beneficiary of money over the years in F1. Anyway, $630 million you pointed out, is quite misleading to say the least. Ferrari can spend a billion dollars, they still would not have produced better cars than Red Bull in the past 4 years.

Doesn't matter who we need when the competition is spending 630 Million on F1 in a single year. Ferrari has a large budget, but it's not that damn large! That's pretty hard to beat, as evidenced by the last 3 years.

Maybe fix the wind tunnel first?

I remember a year ago, the wind tunnel was an issue.

This year, it is still an issue. Don't they have people working to fix this wind tunnel for them from last year? In the era of limited testing, a properly working wind tunnel is a must for every F1 team.

I don't think you can dismiss the article so easily (i.e., without any arguments whatsoever): NZZ is not a tabloid but among Europe's most respected papers, and they are quoting the British Companies House, which has insight into the financial situation because

Companies House is the United Kingdom Registrar of Companies and is an Executive Agency of Her Majesty's Government, under the remit of the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (BIS). All forms of companies (as permitted by the United Kingdom Companies Act) are incorporated and registered with Companies House and file specific details as required by the current Companies Act 2006. All registered limited companies, including subsidiary, small and inactive companies, must file annual financial statements in addition to annual company returns, which are all public records. Only some registered unlimited companies (meeting certain conditions) are exempt from this requirement.

This year, it is still an issue. Don't they have people working to fix this wind tunnel for them from last year? In the era of limited testing, a properly working wind tunnel is a must for every F1 team.

Ferrari has many more problems than the wind tunnel mate. Which is becoming a pretty lame excuse. I agree with SpaMaster that they could've spent 1B and still would be where they are now. The problems run very deep and will take years to fix and turnaround. Hopefully those who are making the changes don't get sacked first.

"Ecclestone? You have to show respect for your elders, especially when they get to that stage in which they are no longer in control of what they say. However, old age is clearly incompatible with certain roles and responsibilities". This was how Luca Montezemolo, president of Ferrari, replied to Bernie Ecclestone, who had been scathing in his criticism of the team from Maranello after they had asked the FIA for clarification over an overtaking by Sebastian Vettel in Brazil. The head of the Formula One circus had described the action of the Rampant Horse as being "not Ferrari-like" and said the alleged episode was "a joke".

SCANDALOUS — "Someone said that it was scandalous that we asked the FIA for clarification over the yellow flags and that we went a bit too far. Ferrari's actions were perfectly transparent - repeated Montezemolo - as we saw the video of what happened after the race, a video that was shown on websites all over the world. We received thousands of requests from our fans and decided that a request for clarification was the most simple, correct and logical action to take. The FIA declared that for them there had been no infringement and so the matter was closed. Congratulations to Vettel and Red Bull because whoever won after such a difficult season deserved the title and because at Ferrari that is what we do. And we would like everyone to congratulate us next season if we win the world championship. We were nevertheless one of the main protagonists this season. We challenged for the title right till the end and next year will be very important for us. The most important thing is to be there at the top. We will have to work very hard to give our two drivers a winning car".

COUNTER-ATTACK — On Ferrari Day in Valencia, Montezemolo went on the counter–attack, replying to Ecclestone. "There are a number of things that are not right in Formula One and the moment has come to finally sort them out in the appropriate places" stated the number one at the Rampant Horse during the press conference. "It is not acceptable that Formula One no longer transfers technology to our road cars. The aerodynamics is now becoming something which has nothing to do with the research. This cannot be a sport in which there is no longer testing on the track. We have run out of patience. We are car manufacturers, not sponsors. As Ecclestone said, 'it's a joke...'".

Montezemolo can cry foul over aerodynamics being so prevalent in F1 these days and testing being banned, what he can't cry foul about is him and his management not adapting to the changing world of engineering within F1.

Just reeks of incompetence in not adjusting to the shift of using state of the art wind-tunnels and CFD in particular, we're not talking about a midfield team are we? Ferrari have no one to blame but themselves, particularly Domenicali and the people he had around him.

The fact that with a non-working wind tunnel for half a season, Ferrari came just 3 points from Red Bull and his hundred of million dollar wind tunels and CFD investments is very telling.

Forcing teams to use overly expensive technology, when they can achieve same or better results by cheaper means and already existing fascilities (like Ferrari's own Fiorano track) does not make any sense.

If they are really serious about cost cutting, they need to let the teams use their own expertise as they see fit (be it theoretical or empirical). This will be the only true way of saving costs.

Ferrari building a brand new wind tunnel, when they have a fully built and functional track sitting in there collecting dust is a vulgar waste of money.

Don't forget Ferrari own (or used to own) Mugello as well. They totally maximizdd their investment in track testing their cars and the switch to limited testing but extensive cfd and wind tunnnel development made the investment in tracks pointless for their F1 team.

Don't forget Ferrari own (or used to own) Mugello as well. They totally maximizdd their investment in track testing their cars and the switch to limited testing but extensive cfd and wind tunnnel development made the investment in tracks pointless for their F1 team.

This was true from 2000-2004, when Ferrari just used the track every single day and really got the benefits going.

The fact that with a non-working wind tunnel for half a season, Ferrari came just 3 points from Red Bull and his hundred of million dollar wind tunels and CFD investments is very telling.

Forcing teams to use overly expensive technology, when they can achieve same or better results by cheaper means and already existing fascilities (like Ferrari's own Fiorano track) does not make any sense.

If they are really serious about cost cutting, they need to let the teams use their own expertise as they see fit (be it theoretical or empirical). This will be the only true way of saving costs.

Ferrari building a brand new wind tunnel, when they have a fully built and functional track sitting in there collecting dust is a vulgar waste of money.

To be honest I am getting a bit bored with aero. Even the latest cool stuff with engines and exhausts is solely for aero benefit. 2013 pirelli tire is exciting because it will change aero. Booooring. LDM has a point that zero or almost zero testing IN MOTORSPORT is ridiculous. Now, it is true that the teams shot themselves in the foot, but still. Bernie is just pissy that Ferrari stole the limelight for a day or two after the championship with this so-called flaggate. However, no matter who you are you don't go around saying Ferrari "are a joke" in that capacity and expect to get away with it. Bernie needs to remember that without the established teams F1 is dead - witness the collapse of HRT, the withdrawal of Toyota/BMW, the teetering (at times) of Williams, Lotus/Renault, Sauber, among others. If Ferrari walk away from F1 tomorrow, they can turn around and fund factory race cars in EVERY SINGLE CAR CHAMPIONSHIP IN THE WORLD and still have plenty of money left over. Red Bull are in this and while they keep winning Maeteschitz maybe will keep funding it, but what happens when Newey retires or the team goes through a dry spell?

"Ecclestone? You have to show respect for your elders, especially when they get to that stage in which they are no longer in control of what they say. However, old age is clearly incompatible with certain roles and responsibilities". This was how Luca Montezemolo, president of Ferrari, replied to Bernie Ecclestone, who had been scathing in his criticism of the team from Maranello after they had asked the FIA for clarification over an overtaking by Sebastian Vettel in Brazil. The head of the Formula One circus had described the action of the Rampant Horse as being "not Ferrari-like" and said the alleged episode was "a joke".

SCANDALOUS — "Someone said that it was scandalous that we asked the FIA for clarification over the yellow flags and that we went a bit too far. Ferrari's actions were perfectly transparent - repeated Montezemolo - as we saw the video of what happened after the race, a video that was shown on websites all over the world. We received thousands of requests from our fans and decided that a request for clarification was the most simple, correct and logical action to take. The FIA declared that for them there had been no infringement and so the matter was closed. Congratulations to Vettel and Red Bull because whoever won after such a difficult season deserved the title and because at Ferrari that is what we do. And we would like everyone to congratulate us next season if we win the world championship. We were nevertheless one of the main protagonists this season. We challenged for the title right till the end and next year will be very important for us. The most important thing is to be there at the top. We will have to work very hard to give our two drivers a winning car".

COUNTER-ATTACK — On Ferrari Day in Valencia, Montezemolo went on the counter–attack, replying to Ecclestone. "There are a number of things that are not right in Formula One and the moment has come to finally sort them out in the appropriate places" stated the number one at the Rampant Horse during the press conference. "It is not acceptable that Formula One no longer transfers technology to our road cars. The aerodynamics is now becoming something which has nothing to do with the research. This cannot be a sport in which there is no longer testing on the track. We have run out of patience. We are car manufacturers, not sponsors. As Ecclestone said, 'it's a joke...'".

The fact that with a non-working wind tunnel for half a season, Ferrari came just 3 points from Red Bull and his hundred of million dollar wind tunels and CFD investments is very telling.

The windtunnel worked all season long. It didn't suddenly develop a crack in it or something.

And Ferrari invests tons in the same things Red Bull does as well. Its an even playing field.

I agree that the focus on aerodynamics has reached of point of "Ok, enough", especially at a time when the rest of the car world is focusing on reducing drag on their cars and developing more eco and mpg friendly vehicles, but I'm not going to play the 'we were at a disadvantage' card. We just weren't. The car that Ferrari designed from the get-go wasn't up to par. They did a good job of getting it fairly competitive but it probably just didn't have the performance ceiling some other cars did in terms of development. I think the raceday team and particularly Alonso should be thanked for being 3 points away from Vettel in the championship more than anything.

According to the German language Speed Week, although Red Bull and Ferrari ended up fighting for the title, it was McLaren with the consistently faster car, based on an averaging of race laps throughout the 20 Grands Prix season.

Based on all the fastest race laps this year, McLaren was just 1.8 tenths from perfection, the report claimed.

Champions Red Bull came in second with an average of 3.8 tenths off the best, followed by Lotus, at 7.0 tenths.

There is no methodology that can accurately compensate for all the contributory factors, but I think they have hit upon the fastest car.

Looked at another way, for 2012 only:

If all the race teams performed equally and the car was the only variable, I'd have wanted a McLaren.

If all the cars were equal and I had to pick a team to drive for, I'd pick Ferrari.

In real life, where a combination of these things matter, I'd want a Red Bull.

Even at the end of the season, the McLaren was up there with the Red Bull on pace. Apart from the odd weekend it was fast all season, sometimes clearly above the competition. But, between the team, drivers, and the fall of the cards, they managed to throw away what should have been absolutely no worse than second in both championships, probably first, proving that the car isn't everything in F1. And that even (possibly, and certainly in the public perception) the fastest driver in (almost certainly) the fastest car is no guarantee of fighting to the end or the title, let alone winning it. Even in the longest season ever, which should help the best package to win.

Would it be possible for Ferrari to cover their Fiorano track, say to the press that it is being changed into a children playground (everybody loves children) and that the noise inside is because of the crash cars and racing videogames?

Would it be possible for Ferrari to cover their Fiorano track, say to the press that it is being changed into a children playground (everybody loves children) and that the noise inside is because of the crash cars and racing videogames?

I bet that is what Red Bull would do if they had a track.

Nope, they wouldn't even waste the time thinking about something so ridiculous. They'd just give Newey a few extra sheets of paper, sharpen a few more pencils and let the guy work his magic. Hopefully Ferrari have Merlin hidden up their sleeves and have some found some magic themselves.

Would it be possible for Ferrari to cover their Fiorano track, say to the press that it is being changed into a children playground (everybody loves children) and that the noise inside is because of the crash cars and racing videogames?

so, are you guys preparing for another 'calm and peaceful' beginning for 2013 like we had in 2012?? any news on the car development front??

Lol, I'm sure there will be much doom & gloom prior to Australia. I'd about bet the house on it. Question is will they fix the problems with the F2012? Only time will tell. There are some early rumors about, but they won't get good or close to accurate until January, IMHO.

Ferrari is working hard on the project 664, the technical staff has studied the F2012 intensively, in order to keep the strong points and to improve the many weak features of the car.
The whole design was based around the Acer exhausts, which were quickly abandoned, because they did not give the desired results on track, this was one of the main reasons the F2012 performed not as expected.
The 664 will no longer have this exhaust system, but will most likely use the sides/exhaust concept as seen on the Sauber and Red Bull, this system has proven to be the most effective way of using the hot air from the exhausts and improving downforce, because of this change, they will have to redesign the diffusor.

A lot of work will also be done on the front and rear wings, David Sanchez, former head of aerodynamics McLaren, has joined Ferrari and is working especially on this, most likely he will completely redesign the DRS system, which was also one of the weak points of the F2012.
The pull rod front suspension will stay and will probably be used by McLaren and Lotus also, a system that was abandoned because of the higher noses, but came back in fashion with the 2012/2013 technical regulations, which forced the teams to lower the front area of the car.

The pull rod is already confirmed on the 664, as it allows a lower center of gravity of the car (shock absorbers and torsion bars are placed lower) but the biggest gain is of aerodynamic nature, because it provides a cleaner air flow towards the rear diffusor.
Mechanically the front suspension will undergo some changes, to make it more stable especially when braking, a known problem of the F2012, and to make the car more compatible with the new Pirelli tyres, the same will hapen to the rear suspension.

In the rear area we will almost certain see a solution, as seen on this year Red Bull, but also as far back as on the Williams FW16 1994, this solution is to encase the rear suspension with an aerodynamic foil, including the triangles of the suspension and the axle shaft, in this way, the whole rear suspension becomes an airflow profile.
This profile will guide the airflow to the lower profile of the rear wing and the diffusor, thereby increasing the downforce of the car.

Ferrari is working hard on the project 664, the technical staff has studied the F2012 intensively, in order to keep the strong points and to improve the many weak features of the car.The whole design was based around the Acer exhausts, which were quickly abandoned, because they did not give the desired results on track, this was one of the main reasons the F2012 performed not as expected.The 664 will no longer have this exhaust system, but will most likely use the sides/exhaust concept as seen on the Sauber and Red Bull, this system has proven to be the most effective way of using the hot air from the exhausts and improving downforce, because of this change, they will have to redesign the diffusor.

A lot of work will also be done on the front and rear wings, David Sanchez, former head of aerodynamics McLaren, has joined Ferrari and is working especially on this, most likely he will completely redesign the DRS system, which was also one of the weak points of the F2012.The pull rod front suspension will stay and will probably be used by McLaren and Lotus also, a system that was abandoned because of the higher noses, but came back in fashion with the 2012/2013 technical regulations, which forced the teams to lower the front area of the car.

The pull rod is already confirmed on the 664, as it allows a lower center of gravity of the car (shock absorbers and torsion bars are placed lower) but the biggest gain is of aerodynamic nature, because it provides a cleaner air flow towards the rear diffusor.Mechanically the front suspension will undergo some changes, to make it more stable especially when braking, a known problem of the F2012, and to make the car more compatible with the new Pirelli tyres, the same will hapen to the rear suspension.

In the rear area we will almost certain see a solution, as seen on this year Red Bull, but also as far back as on the Williams FW16 1994, this solution is to encase the rear suspension with an aerodynamic foil, including the triangles of the suspension and the axle shaft, in this way, the whole rear suspension becomes an airflow profile.This profile will guide the airflow to the lower profile of the rear wing and the diffusor, thereby increasing the downforce of the car.

Ferrari is working hard on the project 664, the technical staff has studied the F2012 intensively, in order to keep the strong points and to improve the many weak features of the car.The whole design was based around the Acer exhausts, which were quickly abandoned, because they did not give the desired results on track, this was one of the main reasons the F2012 performed not as expected.The 664 will no longer have this exhaust system, but will most likely use the sides/exhaust concept as seen on the Sauber and Red Bull, this system has proven to be the most effective way of using the hot air from the exhausts and improving downforce, because of this change, they will have to redesign the diffusor.

A lot of work will also be done on the front and rear wings, David Sanchez, former head of aerodynamics McLaren, has joined Ferrari and is working especially on this, most likely he will completely redesign the DRS system, which was also one of the weak points of the F2012.The pull rod front suspension will stay and will probably be used by McLaren and Lotus also, a system that was abandoned because of the higher noses, but came back in fashion with the 2012/2013 technical regulations, which forced the teams to lower the front area of the car.

The pull rod is already confirmed on the 664, as it allows a lower center of gravity of the car (shock absorbers and torsion bars are placed lower) but the biggest gain is of aerodynamic nature, because it provides a cleaner air flow towards the rear diffusor.Mechanically the front suspension will undergo some changes, to make it more stable especially when braking, a known problem of the F2012, and to make the car more compatible with the new Pirelli tyres, the same will hapen to the rear suspension.

In the rear area we will almost certain see a solution, as seen on this year Red Bull, but also as far back as on the Williams FW16 1994, this solution is to encase the rear suspension with an aerodynamic foil, including the triangles of the suspension and the axle shaft, in this way, the whole rear suspension becomes an airflow profile.This profile will guide the airflow to the lower profile of the rear wing and the diffusor, thereby increasing the downforce of the car.

I've been trying to find a way to determine the race pace of the cars (as opposed to qualifying pace) and my first attempt has been to take the fastest lap from each of the top four teams (whichever driver was quicker). While obviously there are factors that work against fast lap as a barometer (strategy, motivation, traffic) over a 20-race season a lot of those factors will balance out. Certainly not perfect but it does give an insight into Sunday performance.

Most interesting of all is that Ferrari ends up being the second quickest car (after Red Bull) when the data was complete, ahead of McLaren and Lotus.

Race pace was always strong point of this car, but as you said fastest laps today it's about who will have new tires at the end of the race, good example Vettel 3rd pitstop and fastest lap in Hungary, but his Redbull was nowhere near Lotus or McLaren race pace, even better example is Mercedes in Germany GP.

Race pace was always strong point of this car, but as you said fastest laps today it's about who will have new tires at the end of the race, good example Vettel 3rd pitstop and fastest lap in Hungary, but his Redbull was nowhere near Lotus or McLaren race pace, even better example is Mercedes in Germany GP.

It's rather about setup aimed towards qualification or race. In the case of F2012 the car looked good after the 5 red lights because it was a lot heavier, as opposed to the light car in Q, where you need plenty of downforce - something which F2012 lacked most notably in slow speed, mechanical grip corners, as opposed to aero corners.

Interesting interview with Domenicalli, lot's of talk about the organization of the team at Maranello and how changes are still being done in order to be more competitive. Unfortunately is just in Italian: http://www.omnicorse..._medium=twitter

Fry and Domenicalli has been doing a huge job since 2010 with the organization and working process. It's always a pain doing big changes in those areas and it takes time until it starts to pay dividends. I Have faith in both of them and remain optimistic for the future (2014 onwards).

Interesting. Just some quickly translated points:
- The renewed Maranello tunnel won't be ready until August.
- They are exclusively using the cologne tunnel. Domenicali "McLaren also use this tunnel so it's well capable of producing top performing cars"
- Moving to a split design team like McLaren used to have. This is to guarantee more time for creativity for each car.
- Production department is fine. Those who have come from other teams have confirmed this.
- Development of next years car started only a few weeks before the end of last season. [he must mean aero package]

- Both not mature enough for a top team, they have exaggerated reactions yet.- Jules approaching better than Perez. Bianchi has the advantage of being part of the program for longer. Jules is still learning, Perez is more experienced.- Bianchi si better at driving with the rear of the car, he doesn't only use the longitudinal grip of the tyre. He's not the type of driver that brakes hard and then turns, he brings a lot of speed through the turns something that Perez has more trouble doing.- Pirelli tyres were perfect for Perez because they have a lot of longitudinal grip and less lateral grip and that fitted Sergio's style of driving. Jules also adapted well to those tyres because he has the ability to adapt his driving style to the circumstances.- Sergio still has to be guided and will have to work a lot. In McLaren they will have to do a specific work with him. He thinks Sergio is not ready to be on a team fighting for the championship but he could be wrong. In Woking they have experience with a successful young driver even if their personalities are way different.

There will be two different working groups at Maranello. One for the 2013 car, coordinated by Simone Resta, the other for the 2014 car entrusted to Fabio Montecchi

Damn, just saw the info on Autosport and wanted to finally open the "2013 car" thread - it seemed to me that knowing who is responsible for the car is sufficient info to satisfy the criteria laid out by the mods for new car threads. But you beat me to the info, and so the honor obviously goes to you as well

EDIT: Also on Autosport:

Ferrari has invariably been among the first to unveil its new car each winter, but Domenicali suggested that the 2013 machine will not break cover until the eve of the first test.

Fernando Alonso and Stefano Domenicali"Clearly we have only been concentrating all our efforts on the new one from a few weeks before the final race, given we pushed right to the end on this year's," he said.

"The 2013 car will be launched at the very end of January or the early days of February.

- Both not mature enough for a top team, they have exaggerated reactions yet.- Jules approaching better than Perez. Bianchi has the advantage of being part of the program for longer. Jules is still learning, Perez is more experienced.- Bianchi si better at driving with the rear of the car, he doesn't only use the longitudinal grip of the tyre. He's not the type of driver that brakes hard and then turns, he brings a lot of speed through the turns something that Perez has more trouble doing.- Pirelli tyres were perfect for Perez because they have a lot of longitudinal grip and less lateral grip and that fitted Sergio's style of driving. Jules also adapted well to those tyres because he has the ability to adapt his driving style to the circumstances.- Sergio still has to be guided and will have to work a lot. In McLaren they will have to do a specific work with him. He thinks Sergio is not ready to be on a team fighting for the championship but he could be wrong. In Woking they have experience with a successful young driver even if their personalities are way different.

Is he really comparing bianchi with perez? Bianchi does not even have a seat in Formula 1. I do not even talk about what Perez has achieved so far.

Surely the drivers work with what they have. If Perez is using longitudinal grip its probably because he's adapted his style to it. Give him something different and he'll probably adapt. How do Ferrari assess this longitudinal characteristic when Perez and Ferrari only run Pirellis and no other comparison tyre? Me thinks they are a little peeved he signed for McLaren, they probably wanted him in Sauber for another year to assess him.

- They are exclusively using the Cologne tunnel. Domenicali "McLaren also use this tunnel so it's well capable of producing top performing cars"- Development of next years car started only a few weeks before the end of last season. [he must mean aero package]

On the first one - yes, it's the TMG facility. More details plus exclusive pictures here - F1 Framework - Inside Wind Tunnels. The TMG has lastly been undergoing major overhaul in 2006, so it's a very stable base.

On the dev of 2013 car - the chassis is ready, I can assure you. At this time of the year the rules are clear, the concept design is also done, so is the chassis. The aero parts are the ones that get inserted in the end. Expect to hear that chassis passed FIA crash tests in January.