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Apple did compete on price - they competed by demanding that every publisher raise the price of all ebooks by 50%.

I'm 100% positive that that's absolutely not what happened. Funny sense of re-writing reality you have there. I've heard a term for that before, I'm sure you bandied it about before...

Publishers were happy to oblige.

They were timid, afraid to take on Amazon alone. What happened wasn't that Apple asked them to raise their prices across the board by some set amount, what they asked them to do was quit letting Amazon set their prices for them. *That's* what they were happy to do, they just never had the backbone before iBooks.

Amazon wasn't hurt - they still dominate the market.

90% to 60%, and no longer able to bully the publishers around to the same extent as before. I don't know how you can think that doesn't count as being "hurt". Perhaps if that three-letter term I referenced above would come to me, what is it?...

The only people who lost were consumers (like you!). People like you lost big time.

You mean how I now have more plentiful options for eBooks? Wow, I'm soooooo hurt!

Go cheer for the people who beat the shit out of you some more. It amuses them.

No one laid a finger on me. They've offered products which I've willingly paid for. I know that's a strange concept for a large contingent around here.

I find it silly that the DoJ has brought this case. But they have, and I'm trying to understand their justification for doing so. The collusion angle is the only one I can come up with that holds any water.

My personal opinion is that this case is either misguided good intentions, or possibly just someone's ambitions playing out. I'd apply a variation on Hanlon's razor, and not attribute it to malicious ambition without some evidence.

No problem. I've just grown tired of fanboy accusations and how that ruins otherwise intelligent discussions.

I am as well, which is why I've taken up using it against those that tend to throw it out, which I mistook you for. There's a strong streak of crazy here on Slashdot, and maybe I'm foolish to try, but I'd like to think exposing their hypocrisy might do some good.

Every successful business pressures it's suppliers. Sometimes the pressure is cost, sometimes delivery, sometimes quality, etc. You may as well complain that the consumers are the real predators here, because they are the ones who want the low prices from Amazon, Walmart, etc.

I'd call both Amazon and Walmart predators. Not simply for exerting pressure, but for the overbearing and inequal manner in which they do it. But I'm fine with us not agreeing on that. The main thing we need to see eye to eye on this is simply that I'm not saying Amazon is doing anything illegal simply for negotiating from a strong position (nor Walmart, for that matter).

I do think there is at least a bit of anti-trust concern with their "if you don't deal with us on eBooks, we won't carry your paper books" tactics, but I'm basically ambivalent, and would err on the side of not pulling out the anti-trust guns if pushed to make a choice.

I think if Apple had not required publishers to sell in other stores at or above the iBookstore prices, this wouldn't be an issue that the DoJ would pursue.

That's not illegal. And this whole thing is absurd because it levels the playing field. Amazon can no longer force publishers into shitty deals, which is what was happening before Apple entered the picture.

Amazon would tell publishers "you will sell to us at this (absurdly low) price, or we won't carry your print book". They are the real predator here.

Other than anti-Apple fanboys

Ah, the fanboy chestnut.

It's only a "chestnut" because people use it to mean "someone who likes something I don't like", which, quite ironically, is almost universally more fanboyish than the person being called a fanboy.

I personally think "fanboy" is a good term (to be a fan of something), but the OSS/Linux/Android crowd perverted it to mean the above.

I make my living writing iOS and Mac OS software. I'm commenting from a Mac Pro with an embarrassing number of iPhones, iPads and iPod touches connected to it. If anything, I can be accused of being an Apple fanboy.

That's impossible. The publishers have to collude together. Apple "colluding" with them individually (which is exactly what they did), is called standard business. A contract between two companies is not collusion (unless they are on the same side of the supply or distribution aspect and represent a monopoly on a product or commodity).

Fucking rabid fanboi...

If but that you mean the idiots who hate Apple (or MS, or Google) for no reason other then they prefer the products from another company, you have me confused with the Slashdot peanut gallery. It's a common mistake for the members of said gallery to see anyone who defends "Evil Company X" as a "fucking rabid fanboi".

Price fixing is an agreement between participants on the same side in a market to buy or sell a product, service, or commodity only at a fixed price, or maintain the market conditions such that the price is maintained at a given level by controlling supply and demand.

Setting a minimum price for a product is not price fixing. Publishers are free to set a minimum price for their books. What they aren't allowed to do is collude together to set a fixed price (minimum or otherwise). Also, the book sellers (like Apple, Amazon, B&N, etc.) aren't allowed to collude to set fixed prices either.

Are you really that stupid? Price fixing is when a MINIMUM price to the public for A PARTICULAR ITEM has been set.

Apparently so, since that's not price fixing. Price fixing is setting a fixed price. Not a "MINIMUM" (does all caps make it true or something?). Also, it requires collusion between either the suppliers or the distributors (in order to manipulate either the supply or the demand to enforce the fixed price), neither of which happened.

Book publishers are well within their rights to set a minimum price for their products.

Apple used their dominance in the mobile app market to fix their price as the lowest price, if you want to sell in the iBookstore you must give Apple the lowest price and nobody is allowed to sell it for a lower price than Apple.

That's not a fixed price.

As far as using "their dominance in the mobile market", there's so much wrong there I'll just make a list:

1. Apple does not have an app monopoly (required for this to be illegal)2. App "dominance", even monopoly, has no bearing on book sellers (how is Apple supposed to leverage this against them?).3. Even assuming they have a monopoly (they don't, but just for argument's sake), in what way did they exploit this?4. It's funny how supposedly "Android is winning", but somehow Apple is a monopoly.5. Publishers could have easily not gone with Apple's offer. Amazon was eBook monopoly at the time (which is exactly why they went with that deal, to leverage against Amazon!), and are still the dominant eBook seller (60% market share).6. There are still books exclusive to Amazon, so clearly this deal isn't as hard core as you make it sound.

This was just a shrewd business deal which gave power back to the publishers and busted the Amazon monopoly (which they were actually abusing against other book sellers, and even the publishers themselves!).

That's one of only two places where it has to be. Either the publishers get together and agree on a fixed price, or the distributers all get together and agree on a fixed price. Without one or the other, you can't really have collusion or price fixing. Also, laughably, you actually need a fixed price for price fixing (it's right there in the term!).

More choices, breaking of a monopoly that was strangling the publishing industry.

Apple colluded with publishers to remove their books from Amazon if Amazon would not agree to sell at a higher price.

That's not collusion. Amazon has exclusive book deals as well. Does that mean they "colluded to remove their books from iBooks"?

How is that not price-fixing?

Price-fixing is setting a fixed price (that should be obvious), and that is done by manipulating supply and demand (like what DeBeers does with diamonds, but there needs to be an arrangement between many suppliers of diamonds for this to be illegal).

So the real question is, how is this price-fixing? The prices are variable from book to book and publisher to publisher, and the same book across different services can be sold at various prices. And, finally, there's no collusion between publishers.

A cartel would be an agreement between the publishers. Do they have an agreement amongst themselves? No. They all have separate, independent agreements with Apple, which is completely legal. Not just completely legal, but that's exactly how business works. You open a store and make deals with suppliers to provide goods for your store. How do you think it's supposed to work?

Its not amusing at all. Amazon dominate by competing on old fashioned things like price, Not being corrupt. I find it sick that your defending a mega corporation (again), when the illegal corrupt actions affect everyone.

It's quite... fascinating, how you can defend a monopoly and demonize the company that broke the monopoly, doing the very thing you just defended the monopoly for doing in the first place!

Apple entered the book market and competed against Amazon doing the very thing you laud Amazon for doing: they competed on price!

The DoJ's case alleges that the agency pricing model had a clause where the publisher wouldn't sell their books in other stores for less than they were charging in the iBookstore. If true, this is Collusion, and falls under anti-trust laws. http://definitions.uslegal.com/c/collusion/

The definition isn't that long. Here it is:

Collusion occurs when two persons or representatives of an entity or organization make an agreement to deceive or mislead another. Such agreements are usually secretive, and involve fraud or gaining an unfair advantage over a third party, competitors, consumers or others with whom they are negotiating. The collusion, therefore, makes the bargaining process inherently unfair. Collusion can involve price or wage fixing, kickbacks, or misrepresenting the independence of the relationship betweeen the colluding parties.

For example, in a divorce action, the husband and wife may agree to fabricate a story or suppress evidence to provide evidence of lawful grounds for a divorce. As another example, collusion may involve cooperation between competing sellers, in the form of an agreement, express or tacit, limiting competition, or a merger or other means to raise the market price above the competitive level.

Where's the collusion? The first sentence: Collusion occurs when two persons or representatives of an entity or organization make an agreement to deceive or mislead another.

Who is being mislead? Other than anti-Apple fanboys who think Apple did something wrong here.