In the next day or so, I will be tourqueing up the main and rod bearings. In the past, I have used regular motor oil on the bearings before assembly. Does anyone have any thoughts about other lubricants for the bearings. The motor will probably not be running until early Sept. Any suggestioms would be most welcome.

George

George Raham [TD4224]

Permatex 81950 Assembly Lube.

Basically, you will need this stuff already in your bearings when you spin it around and around trying to build oil pressure the first time... oil may not provide enough of a film during initial cranking, especially after a couple of months.

If you do the time honored thing of filling the oil pump with vaseline to help achieve prime, do not even think about turning the engine over until you have a sump full of oil. I turned mine over to get my distributor set up (a task that could have waited until after engine prime) and drove all my vaseline into the main oil galley. I ended up turning my engine backwards with a rear wheel and priming through the lower banjo fitting... it worked, once it got past the vaseline, but it wasn't as elegant as I was trying to achieve!

warmly,dave

Dave Braun

Hi George, When it comes time to prime your oil pump, I found that using a marine "lower end" oil primer works just great, available from CTC or Princess Auto. You just attach it with a litre of oil to the input port on top of the pump cover and pump away, until all your galleries and oil filter are full. You will have instant oil pressure on startup. Cheers Phil

Phil Atrill

Thanks Dave, I'm heading into the city to-morrow and will pick the Permatex up. It's been a while since I've reassembled a motor and I figured there had to be something out there that would do the job better than plain motor oil. Your help is greatly appreciated.

George

George Raham [TD4224]

Hi Phil, That looks like a great item to have for spring start-up and for the first startup of a new motor. I'm off to Calgary to-morrow and will stop at the Princess Auto and pick one up. Where did the fitting to the oil pump come from, or did it come with the pump? Many thanks for your suggestion and help.

George

George Raham [TD4224]

George. The hand pump comes with two fittings, neither of which will fit directly to your oil pumps port, but I did find a female brass NPT adapter that steps it up to the correct size from the plumbing section. Although the port on the oil pump is not actually a tapered thread, the brass adapter stills turns on by several threads and seals before getting too tight. Cheers Phil

Phil Atrill

George there are a lot of assembly lubes, Lubriplate is one that comes to mind. Ask the parts house for one of the better ones. Unlike motor oil they won't drain off while your waiting to fire the engine up.

LED DOWNEY

Thanks for that comment Laverne, and it's interesting that you should mention Lubriplate. I have used it for a lot of different purposes but never considered it an assembly lube. It certainly is a multi-use lubricant.

George

George Raham [TD4224]

I think there are some better ones on the market George but I have used the Lubriplate without problems on several engine rebuilds. Last 4 or so I've used some black moly stuff but the name escapes me. I'll have a look in the shop tomorrow if I can remember or just ask your parts house what the best assembly lube they have is.

LED DOWNEY

I use a 50/50 mix of engine oil and Power Punch (or STP). Whatever is used needs to cling to the parts and stay in place during assembly and for any period of time before start up. Cheers - Dave

David DuBois

You might want to rethink the use of Lubriplate for internal engine applications. It's a fantastic lubricant for firearms, etc., but it's not soluble in oil. BTW, if you use the 'pack it with vasoline' trick, don't turn the engine backwards or you'll create a cavity. Bud

Bud Krueger (TD10855)

They make a lot of different products Bud. Are you talking about #105 assembly grease?

LED DOWNEY

Thanks for the caution Bud. I wasn't aware of it not being soluable in oil. I have used it in wheel bearings and many other places with great success. I will be getting the Permatex or other for my purpose.

George

George Raham [TD4224]

George, You need a good moly lube. I actually used the Cam lube that Moss supplies. I spread this on the cam bearings and most importantly on the lobes and lifters. I used it when assembling the main and conn rod bearings as well. I pre-loaded my oil pump with a turkey baster, since I have a later car with a plug in the pump.Don't neglect the cam and lifter faces, as these are particularly vulnerable to start-up damage.

Steven Tobias

i am not familiar with moss's cam lube, but the cam guard assembly lube my local machine shop uses has specific warning about NOT applying to any bearings. tappets and cam lobes only. the oil is dumped after intial start-up and set up. they use a moly grease assembly lube. regards, tom

tom peterson

LaVerne, the only Lubriplate that I know is the stuff that we used to use to lubricate mechanisms of weapons back in my USMC armorer days. I've never come across any other product by that name, but there may well be others. I'll have to go and Google it. Bud

LaVerne, I've sent a question off to Lubriplate's tech section asking about the product's solubility in oil. I'm waiting for the response. IMHO, it is important for the assembly lubricant to eventually be assimilated into the engine oil. Clotting would not be a good thing. Bud

Bud Krueger (TD10855)

Thanks to everyone for their comments and suggestions. After a frustrating tour of the city of Calgary in my quest for "assembly lube", I finally found someone who knew what I was talking about. I ended up with a product made by RED LINE. It claims it has "3 times greater film strength than conventional black Molybdenum Disulfide lubricants". I guess "3 times" is good, but I probably would have settled for "2 times".

Phil, I got the oil primer pump at Princess Auto, and I'm sure I can figure a way to attach it to the priming hole on the pump. It will be a great item to add to my "ODD" tools for the TD. Thanks for the information on it.

George

George Raham [TD4224]

Bud, Lubriplate is used extensively on airline aircraft landing gears.

Mike Hart (52 TD 16378)

Mike, there's no question about its ability as a lubricant. The question is about what happens ti it when the engine starts and the oil begins to circulate through the engine. Will the engine oil dissolve the Lubriplate that is on the rod/main bearings or simply displace it? Bud

Bud Krueger (TD10855)

George, The Redline stuff http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=136&pcid=17 is what I would use. Again, don't forget to liberally coat the cam lobes and lifter faces.

Steven Tobias

Thanks Steve for your comment. The cam has been coated with the assembly lub. provided by the cam supplier. It may be that I could have used the same lub. for the rods and mains, but hindsight only serves the future. Next time, I may remember that idea. Glad you endorse the Redline.

George

George Raham [TD4224]

George.......I've used STP on a few engine builds.I got thsat tip from some old hot rod engine builders 40 years ago when Andy Granatelli hyped the stuff.

Colin Stafford TF6688

When putting together race engines years ago, we always used STP as an assembly lube. In real hot weather, straight out of the can, if it's cool weather, a 50/50 mix will make life a little easier. In fact, we never ran without it in the oil. WE figured, if it was good enough for Richard, it was good enough for us. But, I must admit, we got it for free!

P S Jennings

I remember (just barely) when I was a young man, STP was pretty universally accepted as an assembly lub. I still add it when I change my TD's oil. It seems to stretch out the time before I have to add the first quart!Many regard it as snake oil, but when I was young (here we go again), and light aircraft engine mfgrs and the FAA were not as specific as they are today, we used to add a can to oil changes in engines that were notorius oil consumers. One in particular, was the Continental O470...1 1/2 to 3 quarts per hour was considered acceptable by Continental. After the addition of STP, we would see 5-6 hours for the first 10 hours or so. After this, it would taper back to its old self. This particular engine ran perfectly well with good compression right to the TBO (recommended time between overhaul) which, at the time, was 1500 hours. As I remember, the engine was then field overhauled. This entailed chroming the cylinder bores and polishing the crank. The cam and lifters were fine. Essentially, nothing was worn out!

Steven Tobias

In 1939 a company call Vauxhall (Luton Beds) was making Churchill tanks with engines that now had an OHC. These tanks went over to Poland and with the cold and single viscocity oils of the time the cams would spall on start up before the oil could warm up and thin out enough to get to the OHC. A company called Rocol put a can of a black "oil Fortifier" on the GM's desk telling him to bath the cams in this just before assembly. With the "short" life span of the tanks they never had another spalled cam! That "oil fortifier" (Moly Slip) was Molybdenum Disolphide and for years was not available in the States. It is now sold by our favorite LBCC. EVERY engine I have owned(including lawn mowers and weed wackers) has this Moly SlipE in it. I used to have to get it direct from Rocol in England then from a distributor in Toronto then from Home Hardware now. I mix in the oil at 1 oz per qt and have NEVER had an engine failure..... and yes I use it in my Mooney M20C :) and will use it in the XPAG!RegardsRod

Rod Murray 54TF 3006

I always mix moly grease with Red Line oil as an assembly lube, and have also never had a failure. To each his own snake oil!

Tom

t lange

Hate to bring this topic up again, but this is one of those areas were you really want something with Zinc in it. Not sure you can find it. I used GM engine assembly lube on my engine. At the time (2005) it was very high in zinc. Don;t think it is now. This gives just that little extra protection. Similar to what Rod was saying with the moly slipe

Bruce Cunha

I got my response from the 'LubExpert':My question: Does Lubriplate dissolve in motor oil? I think ofLubriplate as the stuff that we used to use on weapons in the USMC.

The response:

LUBRIPLATE is the brand name for more than 250 different fluids andgreases. Some LUBRIPLATE greases such as No. 105, which is used torebuild engines, may melt and then emulsify into motor oil after theengine heats to its full operating temperature. The grease you may haveused on your M-1 rifle is much thicker/more dense than No. 105.

IMHO ... may melt and then emulsify into motor oil... is not what I want to have happen when my engine oil meets my assembly lube. Fini ... Bud

Bud Krueger (TD10855)

I emailed Pen Grade about their product being specific to the XPAG engine out of curiosity and received the following response (no interest)

Thank you for contacting us about Penn Grade 1 High Performance Oil “THE GREEN OIL”! We have a Break-In Oil SAE 30 (part # 7120) mono-grade oil formulated specifically to meet the critical lubrication needs of new engines during break-in while allowing proper seating of rings and component ‘run-in’. Enhanced levels of “zinc” (zinc dialkyldithiophosphate a.k.a. ZDDP) and superior oil film strength from Penn Grade™ base oils offer complete anti-wear, anti-scuffing protection for even the most demanding of applications such as those presented by break-in of engines with ‘flat tappet’ cams. Running the new engine for about 125 to 150 miles then stop, change oil and filter and refill with the proper viscosity for your engine is what most engine builders have informed us. From our research your 1952 MGTD at above 32⁰F (0⁰C) 20W-50 (part # 7119) may be an option. We would also advise you to consult your owner’s manual for their recommendation for viscosity also.

Mike Hart (52 TD 16378)

Not very exciting info but, Lubriplate came in large tubes for standard grease guns. We bought it by the case. It was used by us construction equipment operators in closed bearing compartments for a while. Due to it's thinness and ease of "washing" off a surface,it wasn't much good for anything exposed. P&H crane, (Pawling & Harnischfeger), company came out with a directive that if Lubriplate was found in any of their cranes, the warranty would be null and void! We stopped using it ever since. From that point on we used Black Bear greases, Texaco greases and Dryden oils.

Paul sr

Permatex Ultra Slick is favored by many. It looks and feels just like Cam assembly lube, perhaps because that's what it is :-)

J E Carroll

I assembled an engine years ago with Lubriplate,when I changed the oil & filter after a short breakin, allthe lubriplate was in the canister filter. It was not compatible with oil. Havn't used it since. Dave Rezin