ct8282 wrote:
Lame! I ask every single D4 owner.... 'Is your D4 not capable of handling any shooting situation you throw at it?'

IMO anyone who upgrades from the D4 to the D4s is wasting money. Of course, if money was no concern then sure I'd get one just because, but I see no decent reason based on feature set to justify an upgrade.

ISO of 409k. Really? Who would honestly shoot at that and for what purpose? I ask current D4 owners... 'Who currently shoots at max ISO on their D4 and for what reason? Are the images useable?'
SRaw. A nice little feature but the files of a D4 are only 16mpix and about 40mb per Raw file. An SRaw on the D800s, now that would make sense, but on the D4s it's pointless IMO. I've never heard any D4 owner complain about their 16mpix files. To the contrary I've only heard people talk about having more mpix.

It's not about shooting at ISO 409k but rather this means the camera provides cleaner files at other ISO values. Better ISO performance is priceless to sports shooters and that's why they would pay an extra $1500 for a D3s instead of buying a D3.

grenadier2002 wrote:
ONLY 16.2 MP?
The 's' versions have always been cosmetic updates with a slight improvement in image quality (D2h, D2x, D3...) without changing the resolution. It is mainly a marketing trick to up the sales (and increase the price) with an existing body with minimal investment (half the 'features' are usually firmware improvements) - Nikon does want to milk the cow without upgrading the production lines.

hijazist wrote:
It's not about shooting at ISO 409k but rather this means the camera provides cleaner files at other ISO values. Better ISO performance is priceless to sports shooters and that's why they would pay an extra $1500 for a D3s instated buying a D3.

Nail on the head- it's why many would rather have the 1D X when shooting action in lower light; that extra stop (if it's real) should put Nikon clearly ahead. Now, about those super-teles....

Improved AF (claimed anyway) - through improved algorithms - sounds like a firmware update to me
AF at 11 FPS - the old was 10FPS with AF
New AF group mode
High ISO up to 409600 ... that's insane and one stop better than the D4

Not sure it's worth a "S" model ... where the D4X?

Why are you always so negative? Have you shot this yet Andre?

The improvements sound great, and it's a good move by Nikon to update the D4.

gugs wrote:
The 's' versions have always been cosmetic updates with a slight improvement in image quality (D2h, D2x, D3...) without changing the resolution. It is mainly a marketing trick to up the sales (and increase the price) with an existing body with minimal investment (half the 'features' are usually firmware improvements) - Nikon does want to milk the cow without upgrading the production lines.

Guy

Hey Guy,

I don't see the D4s as any "marketing trick" as you accuse Nikon... every "s" version has always been an improvement, with "real" improvements to an existing camera. I think you are being a bit harsh here on Nikon.

ct8282 wrote:
Lame! I ask every single D4 owner.... 'Is your D4 not capable of handling any shooting situation you throw at it?'

IMO anyone who upgrades from the D4 to the D4s is wasting money. Of course, if money was no concern then sure I'd get one just because, but I see no decent reason based on feature set to justify an upgrade.

ISO of 409k. Really? Who would honestly shoot at that and for what purpose? I ask current D4 owners... 'Who currently shoots at max ISO on their D4 and for what reason? Are the images useable?'
SRaw. A nice little feature but the files of a D4 are only 16mpix and about 40mb per Raw file. An SRaw on the D800s, now that would make sense, but on the D4s it's pointless IMO. I've never heard any D4 owner complain about their 16mpix files. To the contrary I've only heard people talk about having more mpix.

What was Nikon thinking? Perhaps they aren't thinking that existing users of a D4 would upgrade but to attract new purchases of the D4s by those who are now coming into the market for a camera with those spec's.

So don't upgrade, but what about the guy who just now is in the market for a sports camera or wildlife camera? I know if I didn't have a D4... and I had the choice to buy a D4 or a D4s, I would be thankful for Nikon for adding the improvements and I would get the D4s...

It's amazing the negativity that is flowing here in this thread... just like with the negativity when the DF was announced... yet now you can read from many satisfied and happy DF owners...

Every step forward that Nikon makes with the camera's they make, will be an eventual step forward for each of us at some point when we do buy an upgrade to our existing camera's. So rather than stand there and kick dust onto Nikon, let's show a little gratitude...

The D4s has had some excellent upgrades to the video modes, one being 1080P with 60 fps option.
400K iso should mean a 1/2 stop improvement at some of the lower iso's, say 6400 ISO. If you're going to get cleaner images and colour at 6400, that would be very welcome.

It also fills in a few missing features (possible firmware upgrades for the D4)
- ISO Auto Control for Manual Exposure
- Simultaneous recording to memory card and external recorder
- Audio can be adjusted during video recording

There's a few of things going on here when it comes to targeting the crowd.
1. D3 and D3s users who didn't feel the need to upgrade too soon.
2. D4 owners who have worn the there camera out and buy a new camera every couple of years (eg. sports shooters, news teams)
3. Camera/video team (eg many photojournalists) who like the upgraded video functions.
4. And of course, those who just like to buy the latest.

I know people will lament any video, but I think this is being viewed incorrectly.
Anyway, all sounds ok from here.

The improvements look good to me. Any improvement across the board in noise reduction is welcome. I haven't used the camera yet but generally an upping of the useful ISO should mean an improvement in the lower settings as well. And frankly I welcome the video upgrades as well. It had to be an embarrasment for Nikon that the D800 makes better video than the D4. Considering the sensor size and price the D4 should have been better. Let's see if they've managed to improve the video picture quality. And again about the16.2 sensor... I get that bigger is better but that relates to pixels as well. Doesn't it?

As a D4 owner, I'm curious what real world results are like. On paper, it looks like I'll keep my D4 and wait till the D5 comes out, but so many times things that seem like small upgrades actually end up being quite impressive in the end.

For example, Nikon claims faster AF lock on - this is a big deal for birds in flight. Sometimes a fast bird swoops in quickly and you only have a couple seconds before the action is over. In these cases I know I've personally had more than a few instances where the D4 just could not achieve a lock, even with having the sensor right on the bird. Of course, most of the time it's not a problem, but just saying, there's always room for improvement depending on what you shoot.

So, I'm going to wait and see what happens in the real world before completely dismissing the camera out of hand.

One of the guys I shoot with only upgrades a "full" level. He went from a D3 to a D4, and will likely wait for a D5 before upgrading again. Each new camera is not going to appeal to the previous cameras owner..... if you have a D4 you may not be willing to pay for the upgrade no matter how BIG or small it might be..... there are folks out there who upgrade every two cycles.....

People need to stop looking at the D4s as the automatic next step for D4 users.... instead it might be aimed at guys like me who have a D3s right now.........

ct8282 wrote:
Lame! I ask every single D4 owner.... 'Is your D4 not capable of handling any shooting situation you throw at it?'

IMO anyone who upgrades from the D4 to the D4s is wasting money. Of course, if money was no concern then sure I'd get one just because, but I see no decent reason based on feature set to justify an upgrade.

ISO of 409k. Really? Who would honestly shoot at that and for what purpose? I ask current D4 owners... 'Who currently shoots at max ISO on their D4 and for what reason? Are the images useable?'
SRaw. A nice little feature but the files of a D4 are only 16mpix and about 40mb per Raw file. An SRaw on the D800s, now that would make sense, but on the D4s it's pointless IMO. I've never heard any D4 owner complain about their 16mpix files. To the contrary I've only heard people talk about having more mpix.

With the main areas of improvement being in Video handling and Live View then we can see clearly who Nikon are targeting .. and it did need improving in those areas compared to Canon. For stills shooter - maybe not worth the upgrade but for video users clearly it is.