BTS JW Rinzler's 'Making of Return of the Jedi'

Even though I know there's already a thread devoted to this video I'm going to post the whole 30 minutes of the Yoda death scene footage someone found on a laserdisc used to demonstrate the Editdroid that some fan found on eBay. I think it's relevant to what we're talking about. Not only do you see appreciate Frank Oz' work is you see that there's a line about Yoda saying he was the one who kept Obi-Wan from telling Luke about his father. You can also see that Rinzler reporting about George insisting that Richard Marquand shoot a lot of coverage so he could have more choices editing was correct, because this scene was shot from every possible angle! You can also see that Marquand was definitely directing. Not only that but you hear him off camera telling both Frank Oz and Mark Hamill when, where and how to move!

you say he wasn't there in any official capacity , but how do you know ? From what I've heard he was involved in some things because it was quite natural to get his help on things he knew about - he had produced the first 2 after all and would've had a lot of useful knowledge etc.
as you say - he and Lucas weren't enemies .

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Because Kazanjian took over Kurtz's role with the company in 1979... that little film called Raiders of the Lost Ark, had Kurtz not botched the budget of Empire he would have been co-executive producer with Lucas, not Kazanjian. Besides what "advice" is Kurtz going to offer? You act like Kazanjian was somehow out of his depth. This is the same guy who worked as an assistant director on big budget movies like The Wild Bunch and The Hindenburg. He was only a few years removed from working with master director Alfred Hitchcock on Family Plot. He was highly regarded in the industry... the man certainly knew how to handle big productions.

Also you already had a producer named Robert Watts, you know that guy who had been the production manager on ANH and an associate producer on TESB and producer on Raiders... pretty sure he could handle any problems the production ran into. Given the talent and experience you already had assembled behind the camera I'm not sure what "advise" Kurtz is going to give.

Yancy

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yeah , I know who Kazanjan is and I know who Robert Watts is , they've both had successes and failures like anyone else , however all the talk about them isn't going to prove your point . So I'll ask again - how do you know Kurtz wasn't there in any official capacity ?

As for what Kurtz could've contributed to the production : He was the Producer on the first 2 Star Wars films , I'll say that again 'cos it's quite an achievement - He was Producer on the first 2 Star wars films . I mean do I really have to spell out all that that entails ?

Gary Kurtz was a line producer, nothing more. He didn't co-create Star Wars, he was hired to make sure George's vision could be realized on film. At times he ran studio interference, at times he had to run 2nd or 3rd units for pick up shots. He did a commendable job, and his work is extremely important to the Saga as a whole. But ultimately it was not Kurtz's money that was on the line... it was George's, and it was George with the vision and the tenacity to see the OT finished, even when there were multiple times he could have thrown his hands in the air and signed it all away to Fox. But unfortunately Kurtz failed at his primary job as a producer... making sure a production comes in on time and on budget... he dismally failed in this regard with TESB and it cost him his job.

I think the real reason for Kurtz's recent comments about Lucas and Star Wars are fairly transparent, he feels he is entitled to enjoy the same fruits of Lucas' success with Star Wars. I'm sure Kurtz feels somewhere that Lucas is responsible for his lack of success post-TESB, but again these were problems of his own creation. Ultimately it was the out of control budget of Return to Oz that did him in. He was already an outsider in Hollywood, and now he was partially responsible for a massive Disney flop. Them's the breaks in the industry... it's pretty unforgiving. But I have a hard time forgiving a man who bad mouths Lucas especially considering he still receives a hefty royalty check for Star Wars, and because he also received generous disbursements of profit points for Star Wars and Empire from Lucas... the man never has to work for the rest of his life. Show some gratitude man.

Heck, I'll go one further. I think it speaks volumes about Lucas character that he has never said a bad thing about Kurtz. He's fairly reluctant to talk about the dissolution of their professional relationship. Lucas has described it as "creative differences" and I think he said in one interview that he was disappointed the budget had gotten out of control. He's never gone out of his way to publicly dismiss Kurtz or deride his work in interviews. He's kept is classy... a lot more than I can say about Gary Kurtz.

Yancy

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and when did Gary Kurtz 'bad-mouth' Lucas ? It must have been pretty serious to get you all riled up like that .

Heck, I'll go one further. I think it speaks volumes about Lucas character that he has never said a bad thing about Kurtz.

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Yet, Lucas has no problem talking about the fanbase of OOT fans that he despises all the time. There is no director who is that outspoken about a part of his fanbase like Lucas is. And before you say that no fanbase is that critical of a director like Lucas, I always bring up the utter hatred by fans of Godfather III, and how Coppola handled it differently then Lucas. Fans hated Godfather III with a passion, and the critics and fans savaged his daughter for playing the role of Michael Corleone's daughter, saying she was a terrible actress and made a bad movie even worse. Not once on the Godfather DVD did Coppola take a shot at the fans for being critical, but talked about how he understands fans did not love the movie, and he has many regrets about it, and one of the reasons he made it was he was having financial problems at the time and it was an easy paycheck. Unlike Lucas who gives a big F-U to the OOT fans who grew up with those versions of the movies and made SW what it is today.

And yet, the OT is built on the foundations of a teenage kid, Luke Skywalker, as the hero. Sure, he's not Hunger Games young, but his youth is one of the biggest draws of his character, especially if you're telling a hero's journey story of growth in adventure. If you want your heroic character more or less already full-grown and, well, heroic right from the start, then sure you can go the older route. Bond, Indy and various Marvel heroes can stand to be older, because we're not really invested in them growing from one stage of youth to maturity. In fact, in some of them, we may have somebody else assuming the "young hero" role, falling under their sway (the Pirates films are kinda a good example of this, but the "young hero" there was more or less overshadowed by the crazy Keith Richards clowning of the older figure).

At any rate, we knew that the PT was going to be, in part, about Obi-Wan training Anakin, which by itself suggests a youth vs. maturity thing, and more or less requires at least the same age roles that Luke and Han had in the OT. As such, I really don't buy that the "Anakin as a 30/40-something" idea ever could've worked as anything other than unfilmable backstory, and anyone who thinks that it's seriously another Lucas-betrayal of never-set-in-stone plans ought to take it with a grain of salt. I mean hell, if River Phoenix hadn't died, there's a decent chance we could've seen him play Anakin long before 1999 (or at least there's just as much room for speculation there as anything else).

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First, much of what you say is based on the assumption that the PT would be done in the same/similar style as the OT.
That is by no means a given.

Lucas has said in the past that the PT would be different than the OT, more focused on politics and such things. The overall outcome is also very different, the good guys loose and the bad guys wins and one of the primary characters turns to evil. Since Anakin will be turned to evil, his journey doesn't have to be the same as Luke's. Since it is his fall that is to be the focus then you can start him off at an older age.

It is also not a given that Anakin would be the focus. The focus could instead have been on Obi-Wan, his friendship with Anakin, how he tries to train him, fails at that and in the end how he is forced to fight his former pupil and friend. Anakin would be important, no question, but he might not be the focus.
So then the PT + OT is how Obi-Wan failed with Anakin but succeeded with Luke.
Here you can have Anakin and Obi-Wan quite close in age but Obi-Wan has to be a bit older. He is still Anakins teacher/mentor and they are also good friends. That could be one of the problems, that Obi-Wan ignores problems or flaws with Anakin due to their close friendship. And things he should have reported to others, he keeps silent about.

Before Anakin and Vader were merged, Lucas did talk about possible prequel films and there the focus seemed to be Obi-Wan, how he was a friend to Luke's father, trained Vader, how Vader betrayed Luke's father and the fight between him and Obi-Wan.
And when RotJ was made, Anakin was indeed older than he is now. If Ian was cast in order to be the emperor in the PT films, then it is likely that Lucas would have thought about Anakin age as well.
So all things considered, Lucas did seem to plan for a PT with an older Anakin but later he changed his mind.

Yet, Lucas has no problem talking about the fanbase of OOT fans that he despises all the time. There is no director who is that outspoken about a part of his fanbase like Lucas is. And before you say that no fanbase is that critical of a director like Lucas, I always bring up the utter hatred by fans of Godfather III, and how Coppola handled it differently then Lucas. Fans hated Godfather III with a passion, and the critics and fans savaged his daughter for playing the role of Michael Corleone's daughter, saying she was a terrible actress and made a bad movie even worse. Not once on the Godfather DVD did Coppola take a shot at the fans for being critical, but talked about how he understands fans did not love the movie, and he has many regrets about it, and one of the reasons he made it was he was having financial problems at the time and it was an easy paycheck. Unlike Lucas who gives a big F-U to the OOT fans who grew up with those versions of the movies and made SW what it is today.

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See, you're saying that in comparison, Lucas slammed SW fans in his DVD commentaries for not liking the prequels which I've never heard about. He basically had the same attitude as Coppola did where he knows the older fans prefer the original trilogy. He also knew before he made them that the expectations of fans were going to be huge and the movie he was making wasn't going to please everybody. He never said anything like "Oh they're stupid for hating Jar Jar." or anything like that. He never went "Michael Bay" on fans. If he did there definitely be a huge uproar about it! Now if you want to hear him apologize for the prequels, it's not going to happen. He made the movies he wanted to make. If you interpret that as him giving "a big F-U" that's your problem. Coppola was also lucky the internet didn't exist when Godfather III came out because as bad as the response was then, it would have been a hundred times worse with the internet! Coppola could be civil because the reaction from the press was relatively civil and he didn't hear directly from fans and if he met them they wouldn't insult him or his daughter to his face. If he had to read what fans with anonymity had to say at the time I doubt he would be so understanding.

As for what Kurtz could've contributed to the production : He was the Producer on the first 2 Star Wars films , I'll say that again 'cos it's quite an achievement - He was Producer on the first 2 Star wars films . I mean do I really have to spell out all that that entails ?​

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Yes, but he also let the budget of the previous movie get out of hand which is why he wasn't asked to be producer on Return of the Jedi. Creatively, he contributed next to nothing to their success so why would they need him back? Kurtz now is distancing him far away from JEDI, because of it's reputation as the worst of the three and is taking no credit for it whatsoever, so I'm not going to give it to him.

and when did Gary Kurtz 'bad-mouth' Lucas ? It must have been pretty serious to get you all riled up like that .

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Oh I've definitely heard Kurtz in every recent interview about Star Wars basically say his absence as exec producer on Jedi is the reason it's not as great as the previous two movies and also criticizing the prequels and accusing them of being driven by merchandising. Maybe those are his actual feelings about it but it also seems he's also telling the disillusioned SW fans what they want to hear.

Oh I've definitely heard Kurtz in every recent interview about Star Wars basically say his absence as exec producer on Jedi is the reason it's not as great as the previous two movies and also criticizing the prequels and accusing them of being driven by merchandising. Maybe those are his actual feelings about it but it also seems he's also telling the disillusioned SW fans what they want to hear.

I wouldn't call it badmouthing but he is definitely not stopping or dimissing the "Kurtz Theory". Personally I believe in the "Marcia theory". From an IGN interview.

IGNFF: Well, I know that when talking about the directors and the auteur theory and directors throwing off their shackles in the '70s and what it eventually led to... by the way, a group of friends of mine, we have something that we, ironically enough, call the Kurtz Theory – which directly relates to Lucas. Essentially, it's that when you lose all checks and balances – someone who has the ability to say no to you or to convince you that this might not be the right direction – you get films like Episode I.KURTZ: Yeah. Well, I think that's true. In the case of Episode I, there's probably something else going on as well, which is it was a merchandise-driven project ... they knew that the money from the merchandising would make a lot more money than the money from the film. It's a tired film, in the sense that there's no passion or energy there, and that comes from that kind of slightly cynical attitude, I think. There's a lot that could have been. In Episode I, there's a tremendous amount of story potential that was wasted.If, on balance, you're looking on it on the basis of "Well, it's going to make a lot of money no matter how terrible it is," then you're going to go in not with the right kind of energy to make it right. That's not limited to Episode I – there are lots of films that are made that way. I think you have to approach every project with a kind of wonder.I didn't know Alfred Hitchcock very well ... he was working at Universal when I was there, and I met him several times in Lew Wasserman's office and a couple of times around the lot, and I watched him work on Family Plot a bit. He was a fairly intimidating guy and he was ill as well, at that time. So, he wasn't his old self, I suppose. Anyway, he did say one day that when someone asked him what was his favorite film of all of his projects, he said, "The next one."I think that's a wonderful comment, because that shows that he was excited about the idea of planning something new. I think all filmmakers should feel that way, because that energy then is transported into the project. If you're tired before you start, if you're only doing it for the money, if you don't like the script – then you're going to go out everyday and show up, but you're not going to transfer any of your personal energy into that project.IGNFF: From your personal experience, how would you compare the George you worked with on American Graffiti to the George you worked with towards the end of The Empire Strikes Back?KURTZ: It was quite different, actually. He was very different. I think the most unfortunate thing that happened was the fact that Indiana Jones came along, and Raiders of the Lost Ark had come out in between. George and I had many, many discussions about that, but it boiled down to the fact that he became convinced that all the audience was interested in was the roller-coaster ride, and so the story and the script didn't matter anymore.Now Raiders is not a bad film, but the script actually was much better than the finished film. There were a lot more nuances in the character, and there was less action. It would've been a better picture if that script had been made. But, as it is, it's an interesting and entertaining film – it's just that this idea that somehow the energy doesn't have to be put into getting really good story elements together. One of the arguments that I had with George about Empire was the fact that he felt in the end, he said, we could have made just as much money if the film hadn't been quite so good, and you hadn't spent so much time. And I said, "But it was worth it!"

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Now that last quote of Lucas can be interpreted in a lot of ways. I don't think he thought he shouldn't have put that much work making Empire good but lamenting that the franchise could be so successful despite that effort. The prequels bore that out. They were despised by fans and still made millions of dollars! Anyway Kurtz lost me when he criticized Raiders of the Lost Ark.

Kurtz also mentions Godfather Part III and Sofia Coppola too. Getting back to that, Coppola might have been stung by the criticism afterwards but he didn't have to constantly hear how much it sucks from people. They usually bring up how great the first two Godfather movies are along with Apocalypse Now. They choose to mostly ignore the GF III. Most Rocky fans hate Rocky V but they won't talk about it mostly will talk about how great the earlier movies are, especially the first one is. Star Wars is different where it's just non-stop bitching about the prequels. Even when they talk about the original trilogy and how great it is they have to also mention how the prequels suck in comparison. And this went on even before Episode I even premiered. In 1997 a now-defunct magazine called Sci-Fi Universe decided to How did they choose to celebrate the 20th anniversary of Star Wars? They chose to do a cover story called "50 Reasons Return of the Jedi Sucks". You can look up the list online. Now there are some legitimate gripes but for the most part it was all nitpicking. You could do the same for the other two movies. What irks me is that instead of celebrating this amazing movie that changed their lives they instead decided to focus on the negative and complain and it's always been that way.

BTW, possibly the earliest source for those dates was an interview with George Lucas in Star Wars Insider # 25, from April 20, 1995. There is a graph with the relative placements of the PT and OT films, and it matches what we have today. In the interview, Lucas says that in Episode I, Obi-Wan is thirtyish. Anakin, inEpisodes II and III, is "about the same age" as Luke in A New Hope. This must be before he switched everything around to make Qui-Gon the older Jedi. (Or maybe before Qui-Gon even existed?)

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Qui-gon existed I think by 95, but his role and age were much different. He was supposed to be a Jedi that joined Obi-wan either on Tatooine or on Coruscant, and wasn't there from the start. If I remember, I think Dark Horse Comics added the timeline graph in 95 or 96. At that point, the Clone Wars was going to be two years, instead of three. Need to look back at the individual issues at the time.

Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn said:

Also, at that time within the EU and fandom, I think the date assigned to the Clone Wars (the ending of them) was 35 years before the original trilogy. Timothy Zahn appears to have been the first author to include this date in his work, which he said came from Lucasfilm around 1991-1992.

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Yep. He had to correct that later on when he went to do "The Hand Of Thrawn" duology.

Lawrence Futol said:

See, you're saying that in comparison, Lucas slammed SW fans in his DVD commentaries for not liking the prequels which I've never heard about. He basically had the same attitude as Coppola did where he knows the older fans prefer the original trilogy. He also knew before he made them that the expectations of fans were going to be huge and the movie he was making wasn't going to please everybody. He never said anything like "Oh they're stupid for hating Jar Jar." or anything like that. He never went "Michael Bay" on fans. If he did there definitely be a huge uproar about it! Now if you want to hear him apologize for the prequels, it's not going to happen. He made the movies he wanted to make. If you interpret that as him giving "a big F-U" that's your problem. Coppola was also lucky the internet didn't exist when Godfather III came out because as bad as the response was then, it would have been a hundred times worse with the internet! Coppola could be civil because the reaction from the press was relatively civil and he didn't hear directly from fans and if he met them they wouldn't insult him or his daughter to his face. If he had to read what fans with anonymity had to say at the time I doubt he would be so understanding.

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This is the most that Lucas has ever said. I don't have sources for where the first two quotes came from. They were given to me by another individual.

"Right or wrong this is my movie, this is my decision, and this is my creative vision, and if people don't like it, they don't have to see it."

--George Lucas

"The thing about science-fiction fans and "Star Wars" fans is they're very independent-thinking people. They all think outside the box, but they all have very strong ideas about what should happen, and they think it should be their way, which is fine, except I'm making the movies, so I should have it my way."

--George Lucas

"...some of the people had a hard time with the reason that Anakin goes bad. Somebody asked whether somebody could kill Anakin's best friend, so that he really gets angry. They wanted a real betrayal, such as, "You tried to kill me so now I'm going to try and kill you." They didn't seem to understand the fact that Anakin is simply greedy. There is no revenge. The revenge of the Sith is Palpatine. It doesn't have much to do with Darth Vader; he's a pawn in the whole scheme....

So I had to ask myself, what was I trying to say and didn't I say it? Did it just get missed or it is it not there? I had to look at it very hard. I had to ask myself, Is this how the audience is going to react? Fortunately, Steven confirmed that most of everything was working. So I may lose a certain demographic - maybe, maybe not. But I had to make a decision, and I decided that I'm not going to alter the film to make it more commercial or marketable. I have to be true to my vision, which is 30 years old, but I have to be true to it."

--George Lucas, The Making of ROTS, page 188.

"Oh, it always hurts. It hurts a great deal. But part of making movies is you get attacked, and sometimes in very personal ways," says Lucas. "The point is, like if you paint your house white and somebody comes over, 'Well that should be a green house.' Well, fine, but I wanted to paint it white. I don’t think there was anything wrong with painting it white. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with me for painting it white. Maybe it should be a green house, but I didn’t want it to be a green house. I wanted it to be a white house.”

--George Lucas, 60 Minutes Interview 2005.

Wearing a particular T-shirt isn't nearly the same as flipping his **** like other directors have been known to do.

purplerain said:

Does the book say anything about the people in purple who are seen with Palpatine?

Does the book say anything about the people in purple who are seen with Palpatine?

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On page 47 there is concept art by Nilo Rodis-Jamero of Jerjerrod, who, despite being titled "Grand Moff" in previous drafts, here (associated with the revised rough draft) appears either alien or otherwise mutated, and in robes (as opposed to in uniform like Tarkin). This looks like what would become the Imperial advisors (the purple people you're talking about). They seem like an outgrowth/remnant of the larger role for Jerjerrod in the early versions of the story. His place in the story seems to interface directly with the Emperor too, sort of like a competitor to Vader. He calls the Emperor "my Master."

On a different note, there is a mention of some notes which may or may not predate Empire, on page 11. One of these is "girlfriend for Luke." Maybe this is all the detail Lucas had in mind when he told a questioner who asked about that topic, "you haven't seen the last three yet."

Qui-gon existed I think by 95, but his role and age were much different. He was supposed to be a Jedi that joined Obi-wan either on Tatooine or on Coruscant, and wasn't there from the start. If I remember, I think Dark Horse Comics added the timeline graph in 95 or 96. At that point, the Clone Wars was going to be two years, instead of three. Need to look back at the individual issues at the time.

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The timeline in Insider 25 has two years between Episodes II and III, but we know so little about how and when the story of the prequels in general was broken into chapters that it's hard to say if this was to be the Clone Wars or what. Similarly, I don't think we know when Qui-Gon was invented either. The most we know is that Qui-Gon seems to have been created as a mentor of Obi-Wan's who appears in the story once they reach the capital, and at some point the notion that he was younger than Obi-Wan was considered. There aren't dates on anything, I don't think. It would be really nice to be able to check out the notes and drafts of the prequels the way they presented them for the OT in the Making Ofs.

Yep. He had to correct that later on when he went to do "The Hand Of Thrawn" duology.

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Really? I thought I saw that for Heir to the Empire, he just made up a date (which by sheer coincidence lines up with the prequels as they were eventually made). LFL gave him the 35-before-the-OT date for Dark Force Rising, and I thought that date remained in EU sources until ... hmm. Actually that's interesting... when did sources stop giving that as the date for the Clone Wars? Some of the old encyclopedias place that within their timeline even. When did EU people get told that that was going to be different?

Just checked some comics. The one from 1996 I looked at doesn't have a timeline at all, and the ones from 1998 just have a big gap in the timeline between ~4000 years before the films and ~5-10 years before.

"Right or wrong this is my movie, this is my decision, and this is my creative vision, and if people don't like it, they don't have to see it."

--George Lucas

"The thing about science-fiction fans and "Star Wars" fans is they're very independent-thinking people. They all think outside the box, but they all have very strong ideas about what should happen, and they think it should be their way, which is fine, except I'm making the movies, so I should have it my way."

--George Lucas

"...some of the people had a hard time with the reason that Anakin goes bad. Somebody asked whether somebody could kill Anakin's best friend, so that he really gets angry. They wanted a real betrayal, such as, "You tried to kill me so now I'm going to try and kill you." They didn't seem to understand the fact that Anakin is simply greedy. There is no revenge. The revenge of the Sith is Palpatine. It doesn't have much to do with Darth Vader; he's a pawn in the whole scheme....

So I had to ask myself, what was I trying to say and didn't I say it? Did it just get missed or it is it not there? I had to look at it very hard. I had to ask myself, Is this how the audience is going to react? Fortunately, Steven confirmed that most of everything was working. So I may lose a certain demographic - maybe, maybe not. But I had to make a decision, and I decided that I'm not going to alter the film to make it more commercial or marketable. I have to be true to my vision, which is 30 years old, but I have to be true to it."

--George Lucas, The Making of ROTS, page 188.

"Oh, it always hurts. It hurts a great deal. But part of making movies is you get attacked, and sometimes in very personal ways," says Lucas. "The point is, like if you paint your house white and somebody comes over, 'Well that should be a green house.' Well, fine, but I wanted to paint it white. I don’t think there was anything wrong with painting it white. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with me for painting it white. Maybe it should be a green house, but I didn’t want it to be a green house. I wanted it to be a white house.”

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Everything you've posted I've actually read before and I still don't see how that's an "F U" the fans. He acknowledges that the fans wanted Star Wars to be is different but he doesn't say they're wrong. To me it's more being true to his vision and not letting anybody else dictate what the prequels should be, whether it's the studio or the fans themselves. His biggest crime it seems is not giving the fans what they seem to want or trying to please them. If he had been really concerned on making fans happy and satisfied The Empire Strikes Back wouldn't be the way we it is. I've read so many opinions from the fans on what should have happened in the prequels and they're all different. He was never going to please everybody.

Wearing a particular T-shirt isn't nearly the same as flipping his **** like other directors have been known to do.

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I know what you're talking about. The "Han shoots first" one. If he had worn that at a Star Wars convention or San Diego comic con then I would agree with you but he wore that one day on the set of "Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull". That's where most people first saw it in a "making of" featurette and it's so quick that you had to get a screencap. I don't think he wore that thinking "This will really burn the Star Wars fans who happen to watch the "behind the scenes" footage of the Indiana Jones movie!

"Right or wrong this is my movie, this is my decision, and this is my creative vision, and if people don't like it, they don't have to see it."

--George Lucas

"The thing about science-fiction fans and "Star Wars" fans is they're very independent-thinking people. They all think outside the box, but they all have very strong ideas about what should happen, and they think it should be their way, which is fine, except I'm making the movies, so I should have it my way."

--George Lucas

"...some of the people had a hard time with the reason that Anakin goes bad. Somebody asked whether somebody could kill Anakin's best friend, so that he really gets angry. They wanted a real betrayal, such as, "You tried to kill me so now I'm going to try and kill you." They didn't seem to understand the fact that Anakin is simply greedy. There is no revenge. The revenge of the Sith is Palpatine. It doesn't have much to do with Darth Vader; he's a pawn in the whole scheme....

So I had to ask myself, what was I trying to say and didn't I say it? Did it just get missed or it is it not there? I had to look at it very hard. I had to ask myself, Is this how the audience is going to react? Fortunately, Steven confirmed that most of everything was working. So I may lose a certain demographic - maybe, maybe not. But I had to make a decision, and I decided that I'm not going to alter the film to make it more commercial or marketable. I have to be true to my vision, which is 30 years old, but I have to be true to it."

--George Lucas, The Making of ROTS, page 188.

"Oh, it always hurts. It hurts a great deal. But part of making movies is you get attacked, and sometimes in very personal ways," says Lucas. "The point is, like if you paint your house white and somebody comes over, 'Well that should be a green house.' Well, fine, but I wanted to paint it white. I don’t think there was anything wrong with painting it white. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with me for painting it white. Maybe it should be a green house, but I didn’t want it to be a green house. I wanted it to be a white house.”

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Everything you've posted I've actually read before and I still don't see how that's an "F U" the fans. Nowhere in those quotes do I even hear him insult fans, especially to the degree fans have insulted him. He only acknowledges that the fans wanted Star Wars to be is different but he doesn't say they're wrong. To me it's more being true to his vision and not letting anybody else dictate what the prequels should be, whether it's the studio or the fans themselves. His biggest crime it seems is not giving the fans what they seem to want or trying to please them. If he had been really concerned on making fans happy and satisfied The Empire Strikes Back wouldn't be the way we it is. I've read so many opinions from the fans on what should have happened in the prequels and they're all different. He was never going to please everybody.

Wearing a particular T-shirt isn't nearly the same as flipping his **** like other directors have been known to do.

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I know what you're talking about. The "Han shoots first" one. If he had worn that at a Star Wars convention or San Diego comic con then I would agree with you but he wore that one day on the set of "Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull". That's where most people first saw it in a "making of" featurette and it's so quick that you had to get a screencap. I don't think he wore that thinking "This will really burn the Star Wars fans who happen to watch the "behind the scenes" footage posted online of the new Indiana Jones movie!"

Yep. He had to correct that later on when he went to do "The Hand Of Thrawn" duology.

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I don't have time to look through VOTF right now, but I had thought the earlier Clone Wars timeframe was still in effect in that book. I don't think Zahn knew what the PT timeline for the Clone Wars would be when he was writing the HOT duology.

Let's leave the Gary Kurtz issue out of this thread unless it relates to the book or whatever he might have done on ROTJ - likewise GL's supposed attitude towards the fans.

On another note, I'd strongly encourage some of the topics being discussed to be put into their own threads - Anakin's age, now the Clone Wars timeline. There's a couple of old threads related to the early concepts of the Clone Wars:

Reading the book one of the biggest contributions Richard Marquand made to the movie was insisting on making Nilo Rodis-Jamero, who had been assistant art director on TESB, the costume designer for ROTJ.

“As I was storyboarding what Richard had in mind, it was difficult to just draw characters without any costume, because it didn’t make any sense to me, so I went ahead and did costume design,” Rodis-Jamero would say. “One day while we were having a story session, Richard turned to George and said, ‘Why don’t we have Nilo costume design?’ I was absolutely taken aback. I didn’t have any plans to do that, but over the next few weeks Richard kept pushing me to do this. “Finally, George says to Richard, ‘You’re asking me to not use John Mollo, who won an Oscar for me? You’re asking me to replace John with Nilo, who’s never done costumes before?’ I was standing between them and Richard’s response was, ‘Why don’t we give Nilo a chance?’ So George turned to me and he said, ‘You’ve got two weeks to prove it.’”Marquand had frequently expressed disappointment with the costumes of Empire, so he sat down with Nilo and talked him through how he would direct the costume designer and what the changes would be, while the latter took notes. “For two weeks, I don’t remember any sleep,” Rodis-Jamero continues. “When you get opportunities like that, you just go on rocket fuel. “Then we had a big presentation for George. Norman Reynolds was there, Jim Bloom was there, Howard Kazanjian was there. And Richard was very kind. He allowed me to present it, even though they were mostly his ideas, and walk George through them one after another, and pretty soon George just took over. Then the meeting was over and George and company were leaving the room, so I raised my hand and asked, ‘What does this mean?’ He turned to me and said, ‘Oh, yeah. You got the job.’ Richard gave me a hug and said, ‘Go home and sleep.’

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I wouldn't feel too bad for John Mollo btw, because he went on to do Ghandi and win a second Oscar! My favorite of ROTJ costumes(besides Leia's slave girl outfit) is the Imperial Dignitaries. Rodis-Jamero rom The Annotated Screenplays:

"On Jedi, one of the most exciting things from a design point of view was the advisers who surround the Emperor. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what they might look like because I thought it was important that through them you might understand what the Emperor's world is like. Coming from a Catholic background, I sort of made a joke, and that's why they look like bishops. So they wear red, and they have elaborate headgear. This was a challenge because it wasn't in the script, and you see them only briefly in the movie."