Cal football: More on Lyles, Seastrunk and the NCAA

Information collected in the past 36 hours along with a few observations …

*** First off, let’s remember that 1) Cal believes it has done nothing wrong in its dealings with Willie Lyles and 2) the school has not received a notice of inquiry from the NCAA — it merely submitted documents at the NCAA’s request.

*** I’ve spoken to several compliance officers about whether Lyles could be classified as a Cal booster given that it paid him $5,000 and that he accompanied Lache Seastrunk on an official visit.

As one source said, “The NCAA could turn a ham sandwich into a booster.”

The consensus is that if Cal has its documents in order, it will be difficult for the NCAA to classify Lyles as a Cal booster — the school would have paid for a service that was available to other schools.

But look for the NCAA to revise its policy in the future and bar “scouts” from making on-campus visits with recruits.

*** The key, according to the compliance specialists, is whether Cal has its documents in order.

To hear the Bears tell it, they did — but the NCAA will be judge and jury based on the material Cal submitted.

Did the football program document when it received shipments from Lyles, what it received (emails, written reports, game video), when it communicated with him and when it paid for everything?

The threshold to justify $5,000 worth of scouting material is not high, but producing it in airtight fashion isn’t always easy.

“Even if Cal isn’t guilty of anything,” one source said, “it can certainly make them look bad” if they don’t have everything in order.

*** The same goes for the relationship between the Cal coaches and Lyles.

Do the phone and text messaging records match the school’s public position (that the Bears had nothing more than a business relationship with Lyles) …

Or do the records raise the prospect that Lyles somehow acted as a Cal booster?

Again, Cal has said all the right things, and the document that I’ve seen indicates everything was on the up-and-up.

But I haven’t seen everything — not close to everything.

*** One compliance officer told me that it’s not uncommon for schools that have submitted info to the NCAA to never hear back — that if everything checks out, the NCAA may simply move on without issuing any kind of closure document/statement.

I’m not saying that will happen in Cal’s case, only that it’s one possible conclusion.

*** Cal also provided a list of scouting services it has used in recent years, with the costs:

That doesn’t mean Cal’s in the clear by any stretch. But if you’re a Cal fan who wants to believe the Bears have done nothing wrong, they’ve responded the way you’d hope they would respond.

* One thing that struck me while talking to Tedford was his recounting of Lache Seastrunk’s official visit.

Tedford made it clear that when he had a private conversation with Seastrunk, it was with Seastrunk and his mother — Lyles was not involved.

To borrow a phrase used by one astute observer of the Oregon situation, that’s a very different narrative than the one Lyles has painted in regard to Seastrunk’s mother — as the rogue parent who refused to sign a LOI with Oregon.

Jon Wilner

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Unless I missed something Seastrunk’s Mom wasn’t portrayed as rogue parent. She didn’t want her kid going all the way to Oregon when she lived in Texas. Pretty normal reaction from any parent.

Yeah, you’d hope a parent wouldn’t stand in the way of what supposedly a kid wanted to do but it doesn’t sound like a “rogue parent”.

Os Beaver

Georgia Tech just got big sanctions. Oregon will almost certainly face just as bad or worse. Oregon St. will have some great chances to win the Pac-12 North!

Calfan

Much ado about little. Anyone can go back and make a run of the mill transaction seem fishy if the details are questioned, people’s memory is faulty and innuendo is reported. But, being as I’d rather root for a 6-6 team that doesn’t outright pay for players than a 12-0 team that does, I have to give kudos to JW for checking that our local teams are on the up-and-up. I expect he will do so with ALL our local teams.

Jungle Jim

Great article Jon.

Lets be honest — Tedfraud is cheating… Not nearly to the extent as NikeU or U$C, but where there is smoke, there is fire.. How many times are we going to see this movie and still be surprised by the ending?

We all know to be successful in the current NCAA landscape you have to bend the rules. Tedfruad is no worse than any other high-paid college coach, but he’s not as squeaky clean as his excuse-makers claim.

And he’s definitely not squeaky clean enough to afford to stumble to 4th and 5th place every season, loaded with pro talent. I love our players but can we really be naive and say that we can sign the Deshawn Jacksons’ and Aaron Rogers’ of the world without paying them a cent — while Texas, U$C, Oregon, Ohio St. etc. etc. etc. are promising them bags of cash???

Deshawn who refuses to acknowledge his time at Cal but rather claim himself as an alumni of “Long Beach Poly Highschool,” somehow was pried away from $C and UCLA right in his backyard — just so he can come up north (to a school he obviously wasn’t too cracked up about) to not get paid, and have to go to class??? Yeah right..

All I know is that Sandy Barbour should have been S–canned a long time ago.. She has made a mockery of Cal sports and is an embarrassment to the University. Tedfraud and Barbour are bureaucratic buttbuddies who get paid to stroke each other and deflect all criticism no matter how legit..

“The NCAA could turn a ham sandwich into a booster”… This is such a BS attempt to marginalize the rightful policing of a blatantly corrupted system. It’s not a “witch hunt” WHEN EVERYONE IS GUILTY. How can people throw out the “witch hunt” crap when schools are getting busted left and right season after season???

Tedfraud’s latest dumbfounded shoulder shrug, sounds just like his same patented dumbfounded shoulder shrug after every big game no-show… After every season ending tank job… After his players are caught faking injuries…

But just like everything else its “not to Tedford’s knowledge” right?

Reasonable

Yeah, Aaron Rodgers was paid to attend the only school that was interested in him. That makes a lot of sense!

Bobby

Jungle Jim, nice work!

You absolutely convinced me that a 0-star JC recruit like Rodgers NEVER would have chosen Cal unless Tedford paid him $5,000,000 and had his wife make him a home-cooked meal every Sunday.

Forget that some people like to go away to college and be guaranteed a starting position on day 1 so they can get to the NFL in 3 years, DeSean MUST have taken money, because Cal was terrible when he signed, coming off a 10-2 season in which they should have played in the Rose Bowl and had just had two receivers get drafted.

You’re right, Sandy Barbour has made a mockery of Cal sports by (1) spearheading an effort to wean the athletic department off state funds at a time during the biggest fiscal crisis in California since 1932, (2) renovating Memorial stadium and making Cal’s facilities no longer a laughing stock for the entire Pac-12, and (3) fight against a hostile faculty, city council, and group of overly-reactive old blue alums.

Thanks for the fresh perspective!

Cuts mean 1 thing

END The UC Master Plan now!

Hungry

You’re such a sad case Jungle Jim!

el Palo

Timeline of the payment in relation to 2010 signing day still does not make sense. Also, why would they pay someone that kind of money when they just got started? Granted, Lyles was part of ESS, but he wasn’t the entire outfit.

The benign explanation is that they expected Lyles to take that info from his former employer. Of course, Lyles is a weasel for stealing it (his other actions qualify him as a weasel regardless so this is not new). The sinister explanation? Ask Chip Kelly.

jpf

Jungle Jim you state “She has made a mockery of Cal sports and is an embarrassment to the University.”

Your post is a mockery of Cal sports and YOU are an embarrassment to the University. I understand you’re a fan of Cal, but I sincerely hope you are not an alumnus of the University. For your lack of logical reasoning, fact checking, and spell-checking certainly do not befit someone with a degree from a school of any merit. And I certainly hope a person of your extreme ignorance and attempts to inflame could not possibly be produced by the university I hold so dear. Then again, one needs to choose to be educated. If you prefer to remain ignorant and hateful then no one can help you.

Jacob Wang

What info Lyles has provided has not translated on the field: The Bears have not challenged for a national title since 2006. They played in the Armed Forces (2007), Emerald (2008), Poinsettia (2009), then no bowl in 2010

ccrider55

Maybe should have paid more? 20,000 more?

Just kidding……sort of.

Esquire Joe

Jungle Jim, your ridiculous diatribe was so pathetic that I couldn’t help but be reminded of the final scene from that classic film “Billy Madison”:

“What you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”

Marc

#5,6,8, 10 and 13, well said. Nobody is happy with the teams performance the last few years, but Tedford turned this program around and one has to respect that. Jungle Jim is a donkey who thinks he knows much more than he does.

Cwoo46

UW Fan here:
Again, I believe Tedford showed a pair when he stepped up and spoke on the situation. Too much speculation on “why” a kid would leave Texas to go to another school. I lived in Austin when D Breeze played at a local high school. True, that he wasnt heavily recruited by UT, however other Big 12 schools in TX wanted him. Texas kids are proud, just like everyone else is of the state of Texas, BUT Texas youth have an affinity for the state of California as well.

I didn’t/don’t like that argument about Lache. It’s a faux red herring debate. There is enough information about Lache’s recruitment by oregon to find sanctionable offenses w/out wondering why a kid would leave the state of Texas to play football. An independant mind, and opportunity to play sooner than later are good enough reasons not to play in the SEC or Big 12.

One last thing. While in Austin, which in my mind is not only the best city in TX but offers the best education in a state chalk full of some of the worst educational high schools in the nation, I found that:

That there are generations of families that have NEVER LEFT THE STATE OF TEXAS. Not even on Vacations or road trips. Outside of that group, there were some that had visited New Orleans. It shook me to my core.
It’s conceivable that a young mind would want to see more of the world.

Eric

@12

Though I am not a Tedford supporter and firmly believe that Cal should have never signed that extension (and now is paying for it), that was an aweome beat-down of JJ, who does not represent any of the folks who provide rational and fact-supportable data to back up their arguments on Tedford. Billy Madison is a classic.

BillyR GoBears

Jungle Jim:

How you can say that Sandy B. has made a mockery of Cal Athletics? JT has done nothing but win/lose with class and dignity. He stuck by the University through the tree sitters debacle. Sandy was able to hire Monty and bring our hoops program back to relativity. Our performance in the Sears Trophy program has been nothing but stellar! I live in Eugene and the UO program can be very annoying. I’ll take our performance any day! Go BEARS!!!!!

dantheduck

“First off, let’s remember that 1) Cal believes it has done nothing wrong in its dealings with Willie Lyles and 2) the school has not received a notice of inquiry from the NCAA — it merely submitted documents at the NCAA’s request.”

Jon, this same statement can be made about Oregon as well. UO does not believe it did anything wrong and it also has not recieved a notice of inquiry from the ncaa. In other words, the PERCEPTION that UO is in more hot water is coming from the media; the NCAA is treating UO just like any other school who has dealt with Will Lyles…

MoreNCsarecoming

Jungle Jim

Why did you call USC, U$C?

And why did you call DeSean, “Deshawn” when we all know him by “MeSean”.

And why did you call him “Tedfraud” when I like to call him “Tedfurd”.

Otherwise, nice work.

Datarade

@dantheduck

Maybe that was the case with the UO Compliance Officer, but definitely not with Kelly. Remember his staff requested out of date material from Lyles after the UO investigation was initiated. Sounds like they knew they were doing something wrong, and were attempting to cover their tracks.

dantheduck

@datarade,
You mean based on the speculative media reports, correct? Again, the perception that is out there is based on the media’s story, not anything from NCAA comments/actions…
I am not trying to cover up or offer an excuse as I feel like I’m a pretty level headed duck fan and know that something does stink and sanctions will happen (though I’m not sure of the severity); my point being that the first paragraph in Wilner’s article could be said about UO just as well as Cal, so if he is trying to calm fears about Cal’s “wrongdoing” then the same could be said of Oregon.
Also, since the media has already convicted oregon, shouldn’t this be clear cut enough that the NCAA would send a letter of inquiry? Based on these columns you would have thought they recieved one already…

nedbear

Hey man, when are those NC’s coming? If they come again, do you have to give them back? Is there a restocking fee when you give them back?

Haha

Probably have to give them back, like the Heisman bro; oh, and their self respect and dignity.

The Wisdom Cow

I will be very disappointed (and surprised) if Cal does not have sufficient documentation regarding when transactions occurred (phone calls, e-mails, packages, etc.). Seeing that the basketball team got a ruler to the knuckles not too long before these transactions, primarily because the recruiters failed to properly document their phone calls, I will be ashamed of the Athletic Department had the lesson not been learned and applied, especially to the big money making sport.

JC

Again, a story that only reports what it wants to. Oregon did in fact provide a database it received with “ACTUAL” and “CURRENT” recruit information TWO days after the initial release of outdated information. The person who provided that info has said they ment to include this with the initial release. Apparently LSU also released the Outdated info they received in conjunction withe the Current recruit info. Both Oregon and Lyles have reported that a large amount of the recruit informatoin they received was VERBAL….which at the time was within NCAA guidlines….Beaver fans, don’t hold your breath hoping Oregon will get hit with massive sanctions…..USC and GT were hit very hard mainly for giving the NCAA the middle finger. Oregon has made it clear it is fully cooperating. If infractions exist I doubt they will be as severe.

Andrew

One thing I see missing; they paid a total of $15,000 to Lyles’ companies, not just the $5,000 being reported. Elite Scouting Services is listed as a company Cal bought scouting services from and that just happens to be Lyles original company.

elPalo

JC– so I guess the verbal reports that Willie Lyles gave to UO were 5X as extensive as the ones he gave to Cal because both apparently received the same written info.

daniel

cal paid $10,000 to Elite Scouting Service in Jan. 2009, which was ran by Willie Lyles at the time, so cal acutally paid Lyles $15,000

StanTheMan

“Even if Cal isn’t guilty of anything,” one source said, “it can certainly make them look bad” if they don’t have everything in order.

Cal does a great job of looking bad all by itself. They don’t need the NCAA’s help.

MoreNCsarecoming

StanTheMan says:
July 16th, 2011 at 5:27 am
27..
“Even if Cal isn’t guilty of anything,” one source said, “it can certainly make them look bad” if they don’t have everything in order.

Cal does a great job of looking bad all by itself. They don’t need the NCAA’s help.
___________________________________________________

Hilarious!!!! I laughed so hard it shook my layers of fat.

MikeD

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If there are other sites that amy is posting at under all her various aliases please let me know by posting a message on the project forum on userscripts.org site, I’ll do my best to add her to the block list for any site I know about.

First Oregon is still better.. 2nd Stanford is also still better, and im pretty sure that Washington is better.

Todd

Unless Tedford can find a way to buy “coaching ability” it won’t matter what Cal does in recruiting. It doesn’t matter who, or how they recruit. Tedford & Cal ain’t going to win anyway you look at it!

LB

@Daniel and Andrew above: Are you serious? Lyles didn’t run Elite Scouting, he was an employee there. He broke off to start his own service. Saying that Cal paid Lyles $10K when he was at Elite Scouting is like saying I just paid some Jack in the Box employee a dollar for a jumbo jack. You do understand the difference between owning a business and being an employee of one…right?

People, there’s nothing to see here. Anyone who knows anything will tell you that Tedford is a boy scout. Question the results on the field all you want, but if you question Tedford’s integrity in recruiting you’re going to look foolish.