This was meant to be a Fallout 3 DLC review

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Mmm... very interesting article. I can't comment on Fallout 3's DLC, but I can add that I wasn't entirely happen with the whole GFWL process required to get Warhammer 40k: Dawn of War II beta going properly so I could play with my friends .. .btw, Dawn of War II beta is on Steam, but uses GFWL (WTF?), Steam's in and out of game invitation system worked perfectly well, it was simple. Now? I have to invite my friend 2-3 times before the game decides that it'd be a good idea.

I completely agree, GFWL is auto-fail. I'm not sure how much money Bethesda is getting from Microsoft to sell what little they of have left of their pitiful soul.

I don't think GFWL would seem quite as awful if Steam didn't do it so right (and I realise that some people do have equally big problems with Steam, but not as many it seems).
The bit I couldn't understand was that a lot of people had to install a hotfix from M$ before GFWL would work, and yet Steam, made by non microsoft engineers just installs right out of the box on any old system from my old XP box right up to my newest Vista x64 rig, with exactly the same lack of drama.
Valve must be laughing their collective arses off over this.

I was pretty annoyed of GFWL until I decided to go dualboot with Win7 and Vista, and install GTA IV on both partitions. I though that GFWL kept my save games online, meaning that it wouldn't batter what OS I played it on.

Turns out that I was totally wrong...

GFWL causes a huge problem when it comes to installing under Win7. Right now I can't even get it running any more. To top that of, it turns out that save games isn't stored online. I have to log in to GFWL to save something ON MY HARD DRIVE! WTF is up with that?!

Originally Posted by phuzzI don't think GFWL would seem quite as awful if Steam didn't do it so right (and I realise that some people do have equally big problems with Steam, but not as many it seems).
The bit I couldn't understand was that a lot of people had to install a hotfix from M$ before GFWL would work, and yet Steam, made by non microsoft engineers just installs right out of the box on any old system from my old XP box right up to my newest Vista x64 rig, with exactly the same lack of drama.
Valve must be laughing their collective arses off over this.

Nah, lets face it even if we were still working with floppy disks **** is still ****.

The best thing in this whole mess ? It's a LIVE Marketplace. Which is as you maybe know, not a wordlwide service. Eastern and Central Europe ? MS thinks it's not worth it, so no XBOX Live (this no GFWL) for Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary and lots of other countries. Now, how to buy something via GFWL, if there is no GFWL in these countries (in terms of using credit cards). The only option is to buy MS points via those point cards - but that case is even worse, as there are only 2 types of it - 2100 and 4200 points.

Funny, that, considering the greater realm of fanboyism has been telling me for over a year that it's impossible for Valve ever to go out of business. And that's a good thing, because at the moment, the second this happens, every game ever released on steam instantly becomes unplayable. If that happens, we can presumably expect to see an abrupt reversal of the hyperventilating, clutching, pathetically needy "steem ftw!" attitude that's been universal up to now, but of course by then it'll be far too late.

I know I'm wasting my breath here, but incidents like the one Joe describes are a warning. This whole online-only-distribution thing is an exceedingly bad idea for any one of dozens of reasons. The issues described in this article and one about Gears of War becoming unplayable will, I suspect, be looked back upon with chagrin when the ordure eventually collides with the rotary ventilation device.

And that's a good thing, because at the moment, the second this happens, every game ever released on steam instantly becomes unplayable. If that happens, we can presumably expect to see an abrupt reversal of the hyperventilating, clutching, pathetically needy "steem ftw!" attitude that's been universal up to now, but of course by then it'll be far too late.

If that ever happens, I believe Valve will set Steam as a "free bird" with some sort of patch, of course that valve's games would become "obsolete", as there is no one to patch them or to solve bugs... but EA doesn't do that also and is a big company :D

U can have the games (i have copies of mine)... Steam is not just Valve games, there are lots of other producers/developers in there, and as long as there are servers, the games will survive

I managed to get the torrent for this working.
So far I have seen no reason to buy this game, over pirating it.
A good persuader for not buying it is the fact that it doesn't work.http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_3_bugs
Grade A guys!
And they wonder why people pirate, and don't feel like they're stealing, maybe it's because you steal from us all the time Microsoft.

Odd, i can hand on heart say i've never had a problem with GFWL. Admittadley i've only used it for Fallout 3 and the DoW II Beta so i don't have ahuge experience, but its all worked tickity-boo for me.

And Viruk, comments on how its easier to pirate the game are one thing, but openly declaring you are commiting such piracy is another and often not allowed on some sites, no idea about Bit-Tech.

First, we can easily package half of this argument up with the fad of Microsoft hate. Oh, excuse me, "M$oft".

I can remember many, many a game that required hours and hours of downloading fixes, researching what files to delete, realizing my graphics card had a driver issue, etc. Sure, I'd get pissed, but it's not like it sucks up your life. Go make a damn sandwich! Spend time with your family! It's only a freakin' day, and you have the rest of your life to play the game.

Now think back to those other times, and realize how pissed you got. Were you anywhere near as pissed? Pissed enough to write an article that isn't constructive at all? It's all because there's a word floating about: "Microsoft".

Yes, it's buggy. No, it's not the end of the world. Have you even researched how many people are on the Games for Windows Live team? I don't see a mention. You don't want to be labeled as a poor journalist now, do you?

GFWL is an excellent idea, especially for me as I'm already a big console game, and have been with Xbox Live since the start. I love the integration, and I love the confused look on my friends faces as they as "Where can I download the Dawn of War 2 beta on my xbox?"

Admittedly not there in execution, but the same goes for the entire industry. Don't go on a damn witch hunt just because Bill Gates was involved.

I like the ingame link to the xbox live friends list and achievements a lot, but i have to agree a lot with some of the things in this article.

It should be an easy thing to buy the DLC, but it's as if MS have gone out of their way to make it as hard to do so as physically possible.

the first obvious place to look, the ingame downloads link in the menus - does not work.
i'd heard it was on live, so looked at the ingame live thing - not there either

Thats when i had to give up and google it.
turns out you can only get it if you install the 'standalone' version of GFWL, seems to be a totally separate entity to the ingame GFWL for no apparent reason whatsoever.

so after much faffing about and googling, i finally paid for it, after that the download went fine.

But seriously, could they make it any harder if they tried? :|

EDIT: speaking of achievements, i think you should get one for managing to download the DLC

Originally Posted by El Dubious MungI think this is all a bit melodramatic, don't you think?

First, we can easily package half of this argument up with the fad of Microsoft hate. Oh, excuse me, "M$oft".

I can remember many, many a game that required hours and hours of downloading fixes, researching what files to delete, realizing my graphics card had a driver issue, etc. Sure, I'd get pissed, but it's not like it sucks up your life. Go make a damn sandwich! Spend time with your family! It's only a freakin' day, and you have the rest of your life to play the game.

Now think back to those other times, and realize how pissed you got. Were you anywhere near as pissed? Pissed enough to write an article that isn't constructive at all? It's all because there's a word floating about: "Microsoft".

Yes, it's buggy. No, it's not the end of the world. Have you even researched how many people are on the Games for Windows Live team? I don't see a mention. You don't want to be labeled as a poor journalist now, do you?

GFWL is an excellent idea, especially for me as I'm already a big console game, and have been with Xbox Live since the start. I love the integration, and I love the confused look on my friends faces as they as "Where can I download the Dawn of War 2 beta on my xbox?"

Admittedly not there in execution, but the same goes for the entire industry. Don't go on a damn witch hunt just because Bill Gates was involved.

ERhm.. WTF are you sayin', It's normal and acceptable to have a completely independent software shoe-horned into a perfectly working digital distribution system, so that a semi-interested M$ can maybe make a profit with it?!

It's as tough you're saying it's okay for anyone that buys a new car(or new game) to have to check the battery, fiddle the fuel line a couple of times, reflash the ECU, call tech support because the darn thing doesn't want to start?!?! WTF!!

Btw some people don't have any family and/or a life, and some people only have a day to live, so if we expect to have a sold product work correctly (and ono the first day) out of the box (or the checkout web page in this case), there shouldn't be any Arsehole coming up and saying " Give them a break", "Don't go on a witch hunt 'cause It's M$".. etc, because it's our rightful duty to do so, since in the end it's US that pay for the darn products..!!

Matchmaking is fine and all, when it works. It allows ranking and prevents cheating. But that is only when it works. I have played about 10 ranked games on the DOW2 Beta, and it has registered NONE. And in about 4 of those causes, the game was terribly laggy. I have had to resort to playing public games and kicking anyone with a huge lag and terrible performance, because at least this way I can enjoy a game. Sure, I won't get ranked, but I'm not anyway!

P2P on the PC is just a terrible idea. There has got to be a better way of doing a matchmaking system. And why the hell can't I use my Steam friends list to invite people? Sure, GFWL works alright for sending invites, but now I have had to add all my Steam freinds onto my Live friends list, and some of them even had troubles porting over their actual Gamertags, and have had to make a new one just to play the DOW2 Beta! Now I have people on my friends list with two gamertags, just because GFWL doesn't like them.

Now sure, things could get better. They can fix the issues etc, but the problem is GFWL is a bad idea from the beginning. Unlike Steam, which was (is) a great idea that had teething issues. I really can't see how MS can turn this into a winning solution on PC.

Thanks Vimesey, I never knew that, I also never cared.
It's a fact this is easier to pirate than to deal with Microsoft's idiotic programs.
It's also a fact, that if they improved their product quality, they probably would have never had such a wide degree of piracy.