In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban. : Maybe so, but the kid already has a bad reputation. Whatever happenned to earning your contract ? Posted by jpBsSoxFan

I don't like PK because of the uniform he wears but he is one heck of a player and Montreal needs players like him. As far as his reputation ? No DUIs, No wife or girlfriend beatings (Lucic ?), no drug possessions or convictions, no participating in bounties etc.

If their was the social media in the 70s n 80s like there is now. Esposito and Cheevers would be considered a "bad reputation" type athlete both falling down drunks at times. I've seen Neely get in fights with many of his teammates during practices. You pay players for performance, PK has performed well.

Me thinks Detriot is an option as well. Many veterans to keep his head in line. Overall Montreal just may have had enough of his antics despite his skill. If Pittsburgh or Philadelphia would think of a RFA offer sheet the price may be right. The Bs, nope, I think Hamilton needs to show his stuff.

I think I might opt for the Cap space and Hamilton's promise. Teasingly PK would do fine under CJ and his defensive structure with Chara as a force. Yet, not Hamilton in a trade. Montreal needs youth and promise, the Bs would have something to offer. The history of the two franchises trading is almost nil.

Would you do Hamilton for P.K for straight up? Nobody is going to say yes in here, but I'd have to think about that one.Posted by kelvana33

OK, I'm a big Hamilton fan, but trying to be objective as possible I wouldn't trade them straight up. To me it would be just like a Kessel for Seguin deal straight up. Yes, Kessel/Subban are better right now, but I think that eventually they both will be significantly better than Subban and Kessel.

In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban. : OK, I'm a big Hamilton fan, but trying to be objective as possible I wouldn't trade them straight up. To me it would be just like a Kessel for Seguin deal straight up. Yes, Kessel/Subban are better right now, but I think that eventually they both will be significantly better than Subban and Kessel.Posted by BadHabitude

Though I will say this, I think we've got a good idea of what kind of player Kessel is, with P.K, I don't think we've seen him reach his potential yet.

Would you do Hamilton for P.K for straight up? Nobody is going to say yes in here, but I'd have to think about that one.Posted by kelvana33

Subban is the better player at the present moment because of age and time in the league. But do you trade "potential" just because of that ?

No is the answer for me. Having patience to see those younger players come around to show what they've got can be as fruitful eventually as trading for current talented players.

e.g. Seguin was no where near the player Kessel was in Seguin's first year. The improvement in his play has closed the gap quickly to not even bat an eyelash to say ( for me ) that Seguin will be a better player in all around play then bruins8/heyoo's boyfriend.

The same could possibly happen years down the road with Hamilton when compared to Subban if patience is shown.

6'5' defenceman who have offensive instincts like him and skate like the wind are not players that come around too often.

Subban hasn't proven himself yet. he is not worthy of a big payday. He is a cocky, arrogant kid who must earn the right to be paid the big bucks. Some people on here are making him out to be just as good as Weber, Chara or Karlson.Posted by jpBsSoxFan

Karlsson might have won a Norris on his goals and assists, but he isn't close to the same category as Weber, let alone Chara.

And no, Subban hasn't proven anything. He skates fast, is learning NHL D and has a very quick release. With only two NHL seasons under his belt, he goal total took a dive Year Two, going from 14 to seven.

Goal production for a young defenseman is a bonus but isn't something I would look at in judgement of how good a young player is or not. Subban separates forwards from the puck in the corners and in the open ice quite often, doesn't panic with the puck in his own end as much as other young blueliners, carries the puck up through open ice allot better than most veterans Dmen with ease, has a better one-timer than all but a few offensive minded defensman in the NHL right now and has one of the better seeing-eye-wristers during the PP than most as well.

I'm with seobrien I hope Montreal runs the young stud right out of the East!

In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban. : Karlsson might have won a Norris on his goals and assists, but he isn't close to the same category as Weber, let alone Chara. And no, Subban hasn't proven anything. He skates fast, is learning NHL D and has a very quick release. With only two NHL seasons under his belt, he goal total took a dive Year Two, going from 14 to seven. Here's the question for those who think it's a lowball: What has he done?Posted by Not-A-Shot

Leading the team in TOI is a pretty telling stat, and often a guage of reliability. Offering the TOI leader less than three other Hab defensemen and less than half of Markov's rate is rightly considered a lowball offer. Subban outscores those guys too.

Whether you look at TOI, points, or potential, Subban bests his salary offer comparables, on the team and around the league, by a healthy margin. It's a lowball offer.

He really wants a long term deal. The kid has the potential to become one of the elites, I believe it and think he deserves more. With that being said the Habs are playing the negotiations game with a player that wants to stay in Montreal. In the end money talks therefore Mr. Bergevin might have to up the offer. He signs for 12m for 4 years.Be careful otherwise the Flyers might take a crack at him and it won't be worth 4 1st round picks.

Ya as much as i dislike him if he was wearing a bs jersey id be happy to have him. Mon must be crazy to low ball him like that. Id say 3.5mil average over 4years would get him to sign the contract. For players in nhl right now if the cba doesnt change this, it is better for younger players to sign shorter term deals. Look at rask if he has a top 5 season hes looking at a big long term deal along the terms of j. quick.

In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban. : Karlsson might have won a Norris on his goals and assists, but he isn't close to the same category as Weber, let alone Chara. And no, Subban hasn't proven anything. He skates fast, is learning NHL D and has a very quick release. With only two NHL seasons under his belt, he goal total took a dive Year Two, going from 14 to seven. Here's the question for those who think it's a lowball: What has he done?Posted by Not-A-Shot

You fail when you pay a guy for what he could be and not for what he has done. He's played well, and he's been benched for being stupid. He's got great offensive skills, but he loses focus. He may not choose to sign this or any similar deal, but he doesn't have a lot of choices right now.

You fail when you pay a guy for what he could be and not for what he has done. He's played well, and he's been benched for being stupid. He's got great offensive skills, but he loses focus. He may not choose to sign this or any similar deal, but he doesn't have a lot of choices right now.Posted by Bookboy007

You also fail when someone with great talent and potential, who already leads your team in TOI, signs elsewhere for market value, and you lose him.

You fail when you pay a guy for what he could be and not for what he has done. He's played well, and he's been benched for being stupid. He's got great offensive skills, but he loses focus. He may not choose to sign this or any similar deal, but he doesn't have a lot of choices right now.Posted by Bookboy007

Habs were horrible last season and their PP was off. It's not what he could be because he's had one very good rookie season and last season a so so year. Let's not forget when he came in the playoffs before his full rookie season for the Habs and was a big reason Crosby was shut down when the Habs beat both the Caps with Ovechkin and then the Pens. I think he's proven himself some what, he's not looking for Weber, Doughty numbers, he's hasn't proved those but he deserves more than what they offered.

One of my favourite players to watch skate in the game. I think the offer is a joke considering what they're paying Kaberle & Markov, but as long as he doesn't go anywhere else in the East (except Boston), or Vancouver. I'd be more than happy.

Goal production for a young defenseman is a bonus but isn't something I would look at in judgement of how good a young player is or not. Subban separates forwards from the puck in the corners and in the open ice quite often, doesn't panic with the puck in his own end as much as other young blueliners, carries the puck up through open ice allot better than most veterans Dmen with ease, has a better one-timer than all but a few offensive minded defensman in the NHL right now and has one of the better seeing-eye-wristers during the PP than most as well. I'm with seobrien I hope Montreal runs the young stud right out of the East!Posted by SanDogBrewin

He scored seven goals last season.

(not in order)

1. wrist shot from between the circles with no traffic2. one timer from the circle on a 5 on 33. one timer from top of the circle on a 5 on 34. two on one from below the hash marks (rush created by Subban)

I can't find the other three. Either way, let's not get so high on this kid's jock. If a player scores seven goals, he deserves no praise for his scoring ability.

In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban. : Leading the team in TOI is a pretty telling stat, and often a guage of reliability. Offering the TOI leader less than three other Hab defensemen and less than half of Markov's rate is rightly considered a lowball offer. Subban outscores those guys too. Whether you look at TOI, points, or potential, Subban bests his salary offer comparables, on the team and around the league, by a healthy margin. It's a lowball offer.Posted by Fletcher1

The sample size is too small. He's only been in the league for two full years.