Kenetiks - New Guy.

I found this site from a link on another forum and after reading over the purpose for the forum and it's rules, decided that I should join. So I'll introduce myself.

I use the pseudonym "kenetiks" online. This is for a simple reason. I keep all my personal information completely separate from my online identity because of privacy concerns on my part.

I am an atheist. Although, on the ultimate question of an original creator of the universe that we reside in, commonly known as "God", I feel the question is simply unanswerable at this time as no side could, in my opinion, claim to know the unanswerable 100%.

On the Evolution vs Creation question, I fall firmly on the evolution side and this has nothing whatsoever to do with my atheism. I would enthusiastically hail either side on it's merits of evidence . I also don't think in terms of evolution vs creationism. I don't feel the need to simply pick a side. I find evolution is not only plausible but evidenced and I just do not see any evidence for creation.

My reason for joining is that I like engaging in lively but civil discourse. I don't think yelling/flaming/name calling/ad hominems/etc is debating or furthering the cause of either side. I'm also quite open to learning. I look forward to being pointed to new materials, papers and websites to read.

One thing to keep in mind though. I travel quite a bit and work a lot and with that, my internet access to post will be sporadic at best. So if I fail to reply back to anyone for a few days it will be for this reason but I will try my best to reply back as soon as I can.

And that about wraps it up I think. Fire off any questions you like and I'll be happy to answer any withing reason =)

Hello kenetiks, and welcome to the forum. I hope this forum can help you further your knowledge in the Creation Evolution debate (i.e. you get something out of it, and contribute as well), and do so in a way that is help full to others. I also hope those of us who are regulars can be of assistance to you as well.

I am an atheist. Although, on the ultimate question of an original creator of the universe that we reside in, commonly known as "God", I feel the question is simply unanswerable at this time as no side could, in my opinion, claim to know the unanswerable 100%.

The above is basically an agnostic statement, not an atheistic one. Just thought it would be worth mentioning.

Hello kenetiks, and welcome to the forum. I hope this forum can help you further your knowledge in the Creation Evolution debate (i.e. you get something out of it, and contribute as well), and do so in a way that is help full to others. I also hope those of us who are regulars can be of assistance to you as well.The above is basically an agnostic statement, not an atheistic one. Just thought it would be worth mentioning.

Quite right. I identify as an atheist. Although the proper term is probably Atheist Agnostic.

To put it another way, I do not believe in any god(s) but that does not mean in the future some god could not present itself.

I keep trying to differentiate religion and creationism but this is a difficult task. They are after all inherently linked. But I prefer to take them individually on the merits of evidence. Neither of which to me, have produced evidence to justify my belief in either. And I do not take things on face value. When I question some assertion, I will dig into the matter until I find a sufficient answer backed by evidence and not appeals to faith.

I also do not hold my opinions dogmatically. I support whatever the evidence reveals, nothing more and certainly nothing less. If the evidence supported creationism, I would be a creationist. If jesus could have been proven to have actually existed(although this would not by itself resolve the question of his alleged miraculous origins) I would do an abrupt about face and admit that this was a historical figure.

But attempting to prove or disprove the christian religion has very little to do with evolution. Even if I said that christianity is completely false this would not mean that therefor, evolution is true. And this also works in reverse order, although would need much more discussion.

In any case, your assertion that I have not already accepted the evidence is untrue at it's core. I have spent countless hours doing just that. As a direct result of those hours spent in search of the truth without any expectation of the outcome; I lost complete faith in any deities, any supernatural beings of any kind, or an afterlife. This is simply the result of honest inquiry. Anyway, I look foward to talking with you more.

If jesus could have been proven to have actually existed(although this would not by itself resolve the question of his alleged miraculous origins) I would do an abrupt about face and admit that this was a historical figure.

That's one of the reasons I said "Or that you'll someday accept the evidences adduced?" So this leaves basically two considerations:

1- Not knowing of the evidence2- Not accepting the evidence

My hope is on #1, and that evidence adduced will be a step in the right direction.

"someday you'll accept the evidences adduced?" seems to assert that I'm not accepting proof. This is untrue.

I've read over the thread in the link cata posted. Some of it is quite interesting and is pretty well referenced. My main objection of course, is that none of it is first hand accounts of his life or deeds and many sources were written long after his death. Also there are some pretty reasonable questions to some of the references mentioned. But this itself is not enough to dismiss jesus as not being a historical figure. If we were that stringent in vetting historical figures then a lot of well known people wouldn't qualify. So while not being absolutely conclusive, I find that it is more than sufficient to qualify him as an actual figure in history and I will proceed as if this is the case. But of course I haven't fact checked every reference or researched them yet. So this position may ultimately change after I do more research into the subject.

In any case, as I stated earlier, this was only in the context of him having actually existed and not the case for his divinity. Which is an entire other matter of debate.

Either way, I am not, nor have I ever, ignored evidence. If I find new evidence, I alter my position to take this into account. The fact that work takes up most of my time means by effect that I do not have the time to devote to massive amount of research. This means that a lot of facts and evidence do get by me and this is in no way means I dismiss evidence offhand. There is a lot out there I do not know and if I claimed that I did, would be extremely arrogant of me.

My entire purpose on this forum is to seek out truth. It is meant to be a learning experience for myself. Although, I would point out, this does not mean I an open to reconverting to christianity or converting any other form of religion. But it does mean that I am open to every single piece of evidence and will admit when I am wrong. And I have no objection to evidence that would support a conclusion no matter which side it happens to land on. I have no expectation one way or another. Conclusive proof for or against creationism, evolution or proof that any deity exists or doesn't, would be equally amazing to me.