"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim tribute to patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness -- these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. . . . reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principles."George Washington

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters."Benjamin Franklin

It would be one thing if Moore was running for state office; say, Alabama's state senate orassembly, or even governor. That would be Alabama's sole business---and, if Moore is indeedguilty of what he's accused of having done, Alabama's sole shame.

But Moore is running for the U.S. Senate, which has a far more direct impact upon the nationthan running for his state's senate or assembly or statehouse. That is very much the businessof Americans who don't live in Alabama, as it would be regarding such a candidate running forthe Senate from, say, New York, or Pennsylvania, or California, or Mississippi, or Texas, orthe Carolinas, or the Pacific Northwest, or California.

It's one thing for a member of either house of Congress to commit the sort of act Moore is accused of having done after they've been elected to Capitol Hill with no known such act attached to them previously; it's something else entirely for a member of either house in Congress to have been sent there despite his or her home state's having known they committed such acts or were accused of having done so before they stood for election to that office.

The nation is not Washington alone, and Washington alone isn't calling for Moore to back away from the race if he's guilty as accused. The nation is not the Republican or Democratic parties alone, and Republicans and Democrats alone aren't calling for him to back away from the race if he's guilty as accused.

We once thought it was a disgrace to have elected a president known before taking his oath of office to have been somewhat of a serial adulterer. There were enough of us last year who thought it was a disgrace to elect a president caught on tape believing he couldgrab women by (a five-letter feline euphemism for a woman's vagina) at will. Why should it be less disgraceful for a state to send to the U.S. Senate a man who proves to have sexually assaulted a fourteen-year-old girl when he was in his thirties?

Or would we have been quicker to want Moore---if he is guilty of such a sexual assault---run out of town and to the nearest hoosegow if he were a Senate candidate from New York or California?

Which reminds me that, as we have been reminded by a large enough number ofcommentators, the presumption of innocence applies legally to a court of law. Until or unless the Moore question goes to court, if it does, anyone can say anything they damn well please about any facet of it, for better or worse.

The irony of all of this is yes, the voters of Alabama have every right to elect who they wish; however, the Senate does not have to seat that person nor do the voters have a right to remove one from office once he gets there.

Logged

Yearning to stay free takes place in many ways at many different times, whether by withstanding planes or bayonets

The irony of all of this is yes, the voters of Alabama have every right to elect who they wish; however, the Senate does not have to seat that person nor do the voters have a right to remove one from office once he gets there.

The Senate can expel someone who is of such low character they cannot allow them to be associated with that august body of liars, con artists, thieves, grifters, and yes, sexual predators. They didn't kick Barney Frank out for running a whorehouse for homosexuals out of his 'congressional home' at a time when, yes, there was 'something wrong with that'.

They haven't voted anyone out since 1862, and that includes numerous other such such notables as Huey Long.

In the interest of complete disclosure, some of those resigned before they could be given the boot. After all, even criminals have some standards.

Logged

How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!Seventeen Techniques for Truth SuppressionAnd I looked, and rose up, and said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people, Be not ye afraid of them: remember the Lord, which is great and terrible, and fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses. Nehemiah 4:14 (KJV)

The irony of all of this is yes, the voters of Alabama have every right to elect who they wish; however, the Senate does not have to seat that person nor do the voters have a right to remove one from office once he gets there.

If Roy Moore is elected and the senate refuses to seat him they will open up a can of whup ass the likes of which no one has ever seen!

The Senate can expel someone who is of such low character they cannot allow them to be associated with that august body of liars, con artists, thieves, grifters, and yes, sexual predators. They didn't kick Barney Frank out for running a whorehouse for homosexuals out of his 'congressional home' at a time when, yes, there was 'something wrong with that'.

They haven't voted anyone out since 1862, and that includes numerous other such such notables as Huey Long.

In the interest of complete disclosure, some of those resigned before they could be given the boot. After all, even criminals have some standards.

It's a new era Joe, and the Oligarchy is playing for keeps and will not permit another Tea Party/Trump type upset from their corruption from happening again.

It's why the GOP changed the rules twice in the last two elections to ensure no grassroots Conservatives can mount a takeover of the party from within, and why they will now make the rules themselves, outside of the convention and outside of public eyes.

Mordor on the Potomac thinks they can and will tell us little people who needs to rule us, and Bob Corker let that little truth slip out of his yaw the other day by stating that the voters in Alabama voting for Moore over Strange was a "Bridge too far".

I will state for the record - I think we are well past the point of being able to restrain or stop tyranny via civil means in this country.

All that remains is how much this people are willing to put up with before they decide enough is enough.

But by then it may be too late to do a damn thing about where we are headed.

If we must have an enemy at the head of Government, let it be one whom we can oppose, and for whom we are not responsible, who will not involve our party in the disgrace of his foolish and bad measures. - Alexander Hamilton

If Roy Moore is elected and the senate refuses to seat him they will open up a can of whup ass the likes of which no one has ever seen!

They will be in violation of the Constitution of the United States, refusing the People of the State of Alabama their duly elected representation in the Senate.

Logged

How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!Seventeen Techniques for Truth SuppressionAnd I looked, and rose up, and said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people, Be not ye afraid of them: remember the Lord, which is great and terrible, and fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses. Nehemiah 4:14 (KJV)

They will be in violation of the Constitution of the United States . . .

Actually, no, they won't.

Article I, Section 5, part 2: Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, punish its Members for disorderly Behaviour, and, with the Concurrence of two thirds, expel a Member. The member'shome constituents can scream blue murder (as happened in 1967, when the House refused to seatAdam Clayton Powell, Jr. while he faced corruption charges), but either the Senate or the House isallowed to do it constitutionally.

Article I, Section 5, part 2: Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, punish its Members for disorderly Behaviour, and, with the Concurrence of two thirds, expel a Member. The member'shome constituents can scream blue murder (as happened in 1967, when the House refused to seatAdam Clayton Powell, Jr. while he faced corruption charges), but either the Senate or the House isallowed to do it constitutionally.

That does not give them the right to overturn an election just because THEY don't like the result!

Article I, Section 5, part 2: Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, punish its Members for disorderly Behaviour, and, with the Concurrence of two thirds, expel a Member. The member'shome constituents can scream blue murder (as happened in 1967, when the House refused to seatAdam Clayton Powell, Jr. while he faced corruption charges), but either the Senate or the House isallowed to do it constitutionally.

No taxation without representation!

Where have I heard that before?

Logged

How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!Seventeen Techniques for Truth SuppressionAnd I looked, and rose up, and said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people, Be not ye afraid of them: remember the Lord, which is great and terrible, and fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses. Nehemiah 4:14 (KJV)

That does not give them the right to overturn an election just because THEY don't like tge result!

Crap, it that was the case I vote we throw the whole bloody lot out and start over Especially the ones from California and the Northeast.

Logged

How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!Seventeen Techniques for Truth SuppressionAnd I looked, and rose up, and said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people, Be not ye afraid of them: remember the Lord, which is great and terrible, and fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses. Nehemiah 4:14 (KJV)

That does not give them the right to overturn an election just because THEY don't like tge result!

Expelling a member isn't quite the same thing as overturning an election. (For thatmatter, neither is impeachment; you may remember Droopy Drawers Clinton's sycophancytrying to argue that impeaching him equaled an attempt to a) overturn an election, and b)foist on the people a man they didn't elect to be president, the Constitution be damned.)The Constitution does not say, Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, punish its Members for disorderly Behaviour, and, with the Concurrence of two thirds, expel a Member, except in cases where they don't like the election results in the Member's home district or home state's choice. (That last is a reminder that state legislatures and not the general voting public elected Senators until the 20th Century, gang.)

Funny thing---nobody except Adam Clayton Powell's direct constituents (and maybe a fewbat-headed liberal commentators) objected when the House voted by practically 3-to-1 not to seat and ultimately expel him in early 1967 for facing accusations (and a couple of formal legal charges) far less grave than the accusations Mr. Moore faces. Powell was merely and exponentially corrupt, not a suspected or accused child molester.

It would be one thing if Moore was running for state office; say, Alabama's state senate orassembly, or even governor. That would be Alabama's sole business---and, if Moore is indeedguilty of what he's accused of having done, Alabama's sole shame.

But Moore is running for the U.S. Senate, which has a far more direct impact upon the nationthan running for his state's senate or assembly or statehouse. That is very much the businessof Americans who don't live in Alabama, as it would be regarding such a candidate running forthe Senate from, say, New York, or Pennsylvania, or California, or Mississippi, or Texas, orthe Carolinas, or the Pacific Northwest, or California.

It's one thing for a member of either house of Congress to commit the sort of act Moore is accused of having done after they've been elected to Capitol Hill with no known such act attached to them previously; it's something else entirely for a member of either house in Congress to have been sent there despite his or her home state's having known they committed such acts or were accused of having done so before they stood for election to that office.

The nation is not Washington alone, and Washington alone isn't calling for Moore to back away from the race if he's guilty as accused. The nation is not the Republican or Democratic parties alone, and Republicans and Democrats alone aren't calling for him to back away from the race if he's guilty as accused.

We once thought it was a disgrace to have elected a president known before taking his oath of office to have been somewhat of a serial adulterer. There were enough of us last year who thought it was a disgrace to elect a president caught on tape believing he couldgrab women by (a five-letter feline euphemism for a woman's vagina) at will. Why should it be less disgraceful for a state to send to the U.S. Senate a man who proves to have sexually assaulted a fourteen-year-old girl when he was in his thirties?

Or would we have been quicker to want Moore---if he is guilty of such a sexual assault---run out of town and to the nearest hoosegow if he were a Senate candidate from New York or California?

Which reminds me that, as we have been reminded by a large enough number ofcommentators, the presumption of innocence applies legally to a court of law. Until or unless the Moore question goes to court, if it does, anyone can say anything they damn well please about any facet of it, for better or worse.

The problem is that too many on "our side" decided to completely disregard what we had always held as a standard for Presidential nominees, when they decided that it didn't matter that "our" nominee bragged about his own perversion and sexual predation.

We have lost all moral ground, and I see no way forward to gain it back.

Logged

Character still matters. It always matters.

May 3, 2016 - the day the Republican party left ME. I am now without a Party, and quite possibly without a country. May God have mercy!

How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!Seventeen Techniques for Truth SuppressionAnd I looked, and rose up, and said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people, Be not ye afraid of them: remember the Lord, which is great and terrible, and fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses. Nehemiah 4:14 (KJV)

Have you looked at my avitar or read the stuff at the link in my tag line?

I read Frank Chodorov for the first time in the 1980s, when a friend gave me his posthumousanthology Fugitive Essays, and another friend gave me a small collection of his legendarybroadsheet analysis. They both knew of my admiration for Albert Jay Nock, whose protegeChodorov had been, and figured that if I liked Nock (and I still do), I'd enjoy Chodorov. Andthey were right! I've read all Chodorov's and Nock's books and they are never far from myre-reading list. They were two of the most eloquent anti-Statists I've ever read, and to thisday I sit in awe of their erudition.

I read Frank Chodorov for the first time in the 1980s, when a friend gave me his posthumousanthology Fugitive Essays, and another friend gave me a small collection of his legendarybroadsheet analysis. They both knew of my admiration for Albert Jay Nock, whose protegeChodorov had been, and figured that if I liked Nock (and I still do), I'd enjoy Chodorov. Andthey were right! I've read all Chodorov's and Nock's books and they are never far from myre-reading list. They were two of the most eloquent anti-Statists I've ever read, and to thisday I sit in awe of their erudition.

It's a new era Joe, and the Oligarchy is playing for keeps and will not permit another Tea Party/Trump type upset from their corruption from happening again.

It's why the GOP changed the rules twice in the last two elections to ensure no grassroots Conservatives can mount a takeover of the party from within, and why they will now make the rules themselves, outside of the convention and outside of public eyes.

Mordor on the Potomac thinks they can and will tell us little people who needs to rule us, and Bob Corker let that little truth slip out of his yaw the other day by stating that the voters in Alabama voting for Moore over Strange was a "Bridge too far".

I will state for the record - I think we are well past the point of being able to restrain or stop tyranny via civil means in this country.

All that remains is how much this people are willing to put up with before they decide enough is enough.

But by then it may be too late to do a damn thing about where we are headed.