Pathfinder Battles Preview: The Big Blue

Friday, October 5, 2012

I'd planned to spend the next few weeks leading up to Halloween on some of the spookier figures in the upcoming Shattered Star set of Pathfinder Battles prepainted miniatures, but this week our doorbell rang here at Paizo, and our partners at WizKids delivered one of the greatest pre-Halloween treats of all in the form of the final paint master of the Gargantuan Blue Dragon, the special "case incentive" promotional figure for the set.

Here she is, in all her magic-item-bedecked glory, shown here with regular-sized Seoni the sorceress for size-comparison purposes:

What you see before you is the mighty Cadrilkasta, a wyrm blue dragon that serves as the primary nemesis of the campaign's fifth installment, "Into the Nightmare Rift".

Cadrilkasta has long haunted the skies of Varisia, scanning the countryside for signs of ancient Thassilonian ruins. So obsessed with the Runelords is Cadrilkasta that she has carved their runes into her chest, as shown in this close-up image.

In the Shattered Star Adventure Path, Cadrilkasta is encountered digging up an ancient Thassilonian ruin looking for a powerful magical artifact. Since the PCs will likely have several shards of the potent artifact that serves as the basis of the campaign by the time they meet her, it's probably safe to say that she will be just as interested in them as they are in her.

When you plop this giant figure down on the table, it'll make an encounter your player characters won't soon forget! We're still trying to straighten out Seoni, and she only just met the dragon yesterday!

Before I go, I wanted to take a moment to talk about dragons in general, and the philosophy of how we decide which figures to include in Pathfinder Battles sets. The Gargantuan Blue is our first Gargantuan dragon, but it definitely won't be our last. When news about this figure first leaked on the internet earlier this week, some long-time miniatures collectors expressed a bit of disappointment, because they've long wanted a Gargantuan Green Dragon, which has not been produced to date by any prepainted miniature company. As a longtime collector of prepainted miniatures, I assure you that I also want a Gargantuan Green Dragon, and am working hard to include one in an upcoming set.

Cadrilkasta is an important dragon in the Shattered Star Adventure Path. Since this set is designed to support that campaign, the blue dragon made for a logical choice as the case incentive miniature. Based on an incredible Wayne Reynolds painting and sculpted with amazing detail by WizKids, we're confident that this is a super-cool dragon that you will be glad to have in your collection, even if you've already got a giant blue dragon in it from a few years back.

It's our intention to do every "true" dragon in every size category, Small, Medium, Large, Huge, and Gargantuan. We plan to be producing prepainted miniatures for years and years, and I'm confident that we'll get to all of them eventually (some, like the green, probably sooner than later). But when a set is made to support an existing Adventure Path, as many of our sets will be, it's going to provide the dragons appropriate for that campaign.

For Shattered Star, that means a Gargantuan Blue. But I assure you, the rest of them are coming!

That's it for this week (and what a week it's been!). Check back next week for a return to the originally intended spooooooky theme. I've got some stuff that will scare you out of your socks!

The thing I like most about this mini is that is shows old dragons as I always thought they should be shown—as potent magic users. Most dragon minis show dragons as these feral creatures ready to go toe to toe with you. That might work for a younger dragon, but those old wyrms have so much magic going on that it always irks me when the minis show them as these feral fighting creatures. They would be wearing tons of magic items and casting spells left and right. Like this figure. It is the first dragon mini I can think of which shows a dragon in this light, which makes me happy.

-Lisa

I totally agree. This dragon wreaks of vanity, greed and power. I'm totally on board with this new direction!

Not wanting to sound like my usual whinging self but isn't this blog post a HUGE spoiler for an AP volume that isn't even out yet?

I find it surprising that Paizo are so good at avoiding spoilers on the boards yet use a blog post with no spoiler warning to say "Hey guys this is the BBEG for book 5 of our current AP!"

Some warning would have been nice.

The warning came weeks ago:

August 3rd blog wrote:

Before I get to today's initial reveals, I want to talk briefly about spoilers and the nature of previewing a set of miniatures for an adventure campaign that hasn't been published yet—it's going to be a bit difficult, and you probably ARE going to have a few minor details and surprises spoiled by reading these weekly blogs.

I'll take care to hide truly egregious spoilers (“this guy is the arch villain of adventure three, but he's the PCs' best friend for the first two adventures, LOL”) behind spoiler tags, but as the entire point of showing off these miniatures is to, well, SHOW OFF THESE MINIATURES, I'm not going to hide every image behind a spoiler tag. If you're the type of player or GM who gets bent out of shape knowing that certain monsters are scheduled to appear in an adventure you haven't played yet, it may be a good idea to keep your eyes away from this space for the foreseeable future.

Not wanting to sound like my usual whinging self but isn't this blog post a HUGE spoiler for an AP volume that isn't even out yet?

I find it surprising that Paizo are so good at avoiding spoilers on the boards yet use a blog post with no spoiler warning to say "Hey guys this is the BBEG for book 5 of our current AP!"

Some warning would have been nice.

The warning came weeks ago:

August 3rd blog wrote:

Before I get to today's initial reveals, I want to talk briefly about spoilers and the nature of previewing a set of miniatures for an adventure campaign that hasn't been published yet—it's going to be a bit difficult, and you probably ARE going to have a few minor details and surprises spoiled by reading these weekly blogs.

(“this guy is the arch villain of adventure three, but he's the PCs' best friend for the first two adventures, LOL”) behind spoiler tags, but as the entire point of showing off these miniatures is to, well, SHOW OFF THESE MINIATURES, I'm not going to hide every image behind a spoiler tag. If you're the type of player or GM who gets bent out of shape knowing that certain monsters are scheduled to appear in an adventure you haven't played yet, it may be a good idea to keep your eyes away from this space for the foreseeable future.

‘Cause I'm going to spill some secrets.

My point stands. I don't know what the blog will be before I click on it and in this case my eyeline read the first line under the first picture as a matter of course. Do I now have to avoid the blog altogether on the off chance that massive spoilers come out?

Contrary to the above statement "I'll take care to hide truly egregious spoilers" I think the phrase "What you see before you is the mighty Cadrilkasta, a wyrm blue dragon that serves as the primary nemesis of the campaign's fifth installment, "Into the Nightmare Rift"" is a MASSIVE spoiler.

Firstly I had no idea the Blog post would contain spoilers before I clicked on it so I had no way to avoid being spoilered. Secondly, Erik didn't follow his promise to put spoiler tags on crucial plot information. Thirdly stating that you are going to spoiler things in a blog post 2 months ago and thinking that covers things isn't acceptable.

So what are my choices? Avoid the blog posts altogether it seems is my only option.

Contrary to the above statement "I'll take care to hide truly egregious spoilers" I think the phrase "What you see before you is the mighty Cadrilkasta, a wyrm blue dragon that serves as the primary nemesis of the campaign's fifth installment, "Into the Nightmare Rift"" is a MASSIVE spoiler.

The description of the module itself says the PCs will be encountering a blue dragon as boss of a excavation site. Not really a spoiler there.

Honestly, how do you expect Paizo to sell a line of miniatures tied to a specific adventure path without disclosing what monsters are in it and naming them by name?

Truly fantastic mini as I thought it would be. Love the sculpt and paint scheme. I agree 10% with Lisa Dragions should be cast in this light - an intelligent and greedy creature to be feared. I knew this would be good and hopefully this will put to rest the negativity surrouding a blue dragon incentive once and for all.
Two thinks to thank you for Erik - thank you for the reasonign behinfd the miniand thank you for that scale mini - poor seoni. That alone sells the grandeur of the piece.
Now I await the spooky stuff eagerly(especially the lovecraftian themed stuf...) As for a future Gargantuan, I'll wait until after I have this one to start wishlistiting the next. Yeah a green would be cool but so would that Shamhazian Demon or the Tarrasque (or another spawn of Rovagug). For now I shall simply bask in your success.

The thing I like most about this mini is that is shows old dragons as I always thought they should be shown—as potent magic users. Most dragon minis show dragons as these feral creatures ready to go toe to toe with you. That might work for a younger dragon, but those old wyrms have so much magic going on that it always irks me when the minis show them as these feral fighting creatures. They would be wearing tons of magic items and casting spells left and right. Like this figure. It is the first dragon mini I can think of which shows a dragon in this light, which makes me happy.

And as we saw in a recent game, even a simulacrum of a dragon such as that can be a force to be reckoned with :)

(expecially when it can go toe-to-toe with the party while spell-bombing them into oblivion :) )

Thats a really awesome mini. I like it.
It truly shows how different cosmetically Pathfinder blues are compared to D&D.
I kind of liked and miss the short-necked pit bull with the rhino horn...but this thing is just to georgeous.

The jewlery is weird...but if it suits the character in the adventure Im on board.

Is the name of the miniature "Gargantual Blue Dragon" or "Cadrilkasta, Blue Wyrm"? I strongly suggest you name it the latter. That leaves room for a generic gargantuan blue mini in the future.
I just feel she looks to much like a specific NPC and not really a generic blue dragon.

At any rate I cant afford a case of minis but will realy try to get one on the secondary market just like the Rune Giant.

I know these are sort of unreleated questions but if anyone knows:
1- Will Rune Giants and other minis like that ever be available for purchase on the site without ordering a case?
2- Now that GenCon is over can we buy the green spectre?

Contrary to the above statement "I'll take care to hide truly egregious spoilers" I think the phrase "What you see before you is the mighty Cadrilkasta, a wyrm blue dragon that serves as the primary nemesis of the campaign's fifth installment, "Into the Nightmare Rift"" is a MASSIVE spoiler.

The description of the module itself says the PCs will be encountering a blue dragon as boss of a excavation site. Not really a spoiler there.

Honestly, how do you expect Paizo to sell a line of miniatures tied to a specific adventure path without disclosing what monsters are in it and naming them by name?

Which is why I don't read the descriptions of the modules.

The whole blog post could have had a spoiler tag. That's not so hard. Then if anyone wanted to avoid spoilers they could.

My objection to this was that I had no chance to avoid being spoilered. I'm all for Paizo promoting their products, of course they should do that, my point is that more care should have been taken. Yes Paizo have put up some warnings but I contend that they reasonably could have done more to avoid this situation.

I find the jewelry and pose to be excellent and exciting.
The ancient dragon has a personality and history. Much more interesting than a figure that looks like it has been standing still its whole life wating to be discovered by a single adventuring party.

Yep the more I look at this one I really like it. I got in on the WoC minis late and never got the blue. This one has ten times more character and looks like a pathfinder dragon not the other guys version. Probably get two. Love the pose as well.

It truly shows how different cosmetically Pathfinder blues are compared to D&D.
I kind of liked and miss the short-necked pit bull with the rhino horn...but this thing is just to georgeous.

The jewlery is weird...but if it suits the character in the adventure Im on board.

Is the name of the miniature "Gargantual Blue Dragon" or "Cadrilkasta, Blue Wyrm"? I strongly suggest you name it the latter. That leaves room for a generic gargantuan blue mini in the future.
I just feel she looks to much like a specific NPC and not really a generic blue dragon.

At any rate I cant afford a case of minis but will realy try to get one on the secondary market just like the Rune Giant.

I know these are sort of unreleated questions but if anyone knows:
1- Will Rune Giants and other minis like that ever be available for purchase on the site without ordering a case?
2- Now that GenCon is over can we buy the green spectre?

1 When Shattered Star releases, presuming they have Rune Giants left, they will go on general sale. You can presently pick up a Black Dragon from H&M

I want this but the case incentive minis dont seem to come to this side off the pond..indeed it's impossible to buy a case and I can't afford the sub (postage costs are ridiculous)So It will be E-bay again and probably cost me a fortune

Is there any chance of WizKids making a 'generic' gargantuan Blue Dragon? I love this miniature (especially the pose) but as Jason Grubiak said, the jewelry and runes on its scales make it a bit too much like a unique NPC for my tastes. So is there a possiblity that you will release a Gargantuan Blue Dragon figure similar to this but without the jewelry and runes in the uncertain future?

I'm not buying into the generic vs. NPC argument. Just how many gargantuan dragons are their running around in your adventures? Any dragon that has been around long enough to grow to gargantuan size is going to have acquired some magic and is going want to employ it. Cadrilkasta is a better representation of what a party would encounter than anything that has been made before. Quite frankly, I think that even huges and larges would have some items on them. Does it look a bit odd? Well, maybe it takes a little getting used to. But does it fit how Pathfinder and D&D portray dragons? Absolutely!

I'm not buying into the generic vs. NPC argument. Just how many gargantuan dragons are their running around in your adventures? Any dragon that has been around long enough to grow to gargantuan size is going to have acquired some magic and is going want to employ it. Cadrilkasta is a better representation of what a party would encounter than anything that has been made before. Quite frankly, I think that even huges and larges would have some items on them. Does it look a bit odd? Well, maybe it takes a little getting used to. But does it fit how Pathfinder and D&D portray dragons? Absolutely!

I think people have varying levels of suspension of disbelief and often prefer to 'imagine' the additional details to a D&D/Pathfinder miniature rather than to have it already on display. I for one don't mind the bling this dragon has got, and it certaintly fits the monster's background but I must confess I do have an issue with the etched runes on it's underbelly. That alone for me says 'individual NPC' rather than 'generic gargantuan blue dragon'.

Think about it. How many Garg. Blues does one plan on throwing at a party? They are unique creatures.

I am fortunate to have a DDM Garg. Blue. I even had a chance to use it in my old 3.5 Homebrew. (It was Teleported away by a Prismatic Wall. Very anticlimactic!) Back when it was released I managed to snag one for $30US. The thing goes for over $100 today. Crazy!

The point is we will be getting another Garg. Blue that will likely be had for under $100, maybe well below $100. And as Lisa so eloquently put, this Garg. Blue is the way an Ancient Magic using Dragon should be portrayed. She is absolutely right about that.

I have had to come around. I like my DDM Garg. Blue. But I am looking forward to one day running Cadrilkasta. She is unique, as all Garg. Blues should be. And even those DMs or GMs out there that doesn't plan on running the AP, should be able to use this unique figurine to create a very memorable encounter. And isn't that what it is all about? I just hope Cadrilkasta doesn't get quickly Teleported away. ;)