The truth about a complex built for veterans and the middle class and how it has evolved through the years to become one of the more interesting and controversial of New York stories.

Comment Policy

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Friday, December 23, 2011

Holiday Wishes

Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukah, and Happy Holidays!

(Your ST or PCV apartment can look like that, too...with a few modifications!)

I think our best shot at a white christmas this year is the inevitable backup of the mack gray machines spewing white suds throughout the basement. I plan to bring the kiddies down to see it so they will always have happy memories to share...even if their clothes don't get clean. ;)

Does anyone have any knowledge of any other bidders on this place we call home? If Sty/pcv is such a deal (as the TA board wants us to belive), why is there no other real esate moguls beating down the doors of CW to get their hands on this "Cash Cow"? If the TA plans go through, this will be the biggest real-estate debacle since Tishman bought this pig and decided to put lip-stick on it.

Toilet backed up during the night, called Security shortly after 6 AM. Said we would get a call back from Maintenance. Within 5 mins., someone phoned and said a handyman was on his way. Problem resolved in under a half hour.

>>>"I'm sure the Brookfield CEO, who used to run CW, and all the other ivy trained lawyers and accountants have nothing better to do than waste time on a deal that has no chance..."<<<

Do you think Tishman ever thought for one moment that; instead of getting rid of the old tenants, it was going to be the tenants who got rid of them! How many “ivy trained lawyers and accountants” do you think they had?, and they were all WRONG!

Yes Anonymous (December 25, 2011 6:49 PM), there are bad business/investments decisions that are made every day. How many deals/investments do you read and hear about where people are interviewed and they say "We were told it was a sure thing", "no way can you lose"? Only to find their life savings are gone along with any choices they have for their future. Its people who never question what they are told, "lemmings" that line up and willing to walk off a cliff one by one following their leaders (board members)to financial ruin. It's your financial future, ask questions, demand answers, demand that all negotiations are transparent. Don't enter some deal, because someone else tells you it's a "bargin", "deal of the century", or that "you can't lose"! Be responsible, you owe it to yourself and family. DUE DILLERGENCE IS KEY! Caveat Emptor, buyer beware!

To: to: December 25, 2011 6:49 PMIt’s statements and beliefs like yours, that lands people on 60 Minutes saying “Our Life Savings are gone!”

As to whether there are other offers, there could be and we wouldn't necessarily know about them. Also remember that the rents of the formerly deregulated apartments haven't yet been determined. That's been the major obstacle to moving forward.

What's troubling about all this is that the flow of information about all the proposals has been greatly filtered by the TA. The most important single fact to know is that in order for any plan to move forward, by law at least 15% of the tenants must indicate willingness to by at the given price. This means that the tenants' only real power that is truly meaningful is the ability to influence or even control the vote.

Consider...the more the price is adjusted to keep the percentage of buyers at or close to 15%, the more money a company likely Brookfield makes as the rental apartments become vacant over time.

So Brookfield is likely to come with a buying price of 450K. This means that when everything is eventually sold, Brookfield will gross a little over 8 billion dollars. The Guterman plan specifies a price of about 315K per apartment. Many more tenants will purchase at this price. So the Guterman plan will gross a little under 7 billion.

Maybe there are some downsides to Guterman. My main point is all the tenants should have access to all the information rather than the TA executive board not using its offices to disseminate all the information.

I have to agree with the comment about Garodnick working everything like a political campaign. This is a very insightful comment. Please bear in mind...Garodnick used to work for the law firm advising the TA, Paul, Weiss... Brookfield is a major member of the National Association of Real Estate Trusts...one of the major contributors to Schumer. All of this needs to be watched very closely. The last thing these guys want is for all the proposals and all the information to be transparent. And there are other proposals...definitely!

But as mentioned before...the only power the tenants have is controlling or influencing the vote for likely to buy among the tenants. Without the necessary 15% positive response, no proposal can legally go into effect. Please spread the word about this. People need to know...they definitely do have power...but it's only enabled through organization & communication.

I think the guy who posted earlier is right about tenants being Lemmings. I am afraid most of the tenants are too lazy and apathetic to do their own homework. It's just easier for The Lemmings to believe what is spoon feed to them by the TA.Most of the tenants here want to be treated like mushrooms, kept in the dark and feed shit! If this is truly the case they will get what they deserve, RIPPED OFF and taken to the cleaners.

I, personally, have no interest whatsoever in buying my apartment. However, I think that those who are interested in buying should do a LOT of research first. Remember, this place is held together with spit in some places because of the shoddy maintenance and patching up done over the years by MetLife; it's built on a toxic waste dump and the plumbing could have been put in by people who didn't have enough material (such as copper) to do a really good job. Good luck to those who choose to buy, but BUYER BEWARE because this place is not as solid as it looks. They didn't even have the material to float the floors which is why we have such a problem with the new tenants disregard for noise mderation. The TA, Garodnick and Schumer are a bunch of schnorers so be very wary of them.

When the numbers come out, they may mot even get the 15% they need. Prices are going to be higher than most expect so it is only going to appeal to the "market rate" tenants that will actually save a bit each month by buying in.

Of course, the "affordable rate" sales are only meant to help them get to the 15% they need to make the deal go through.

Then, "PRESTO!." Brookfield becomes the new TS, CW, Rose or whatever. Now they own the place and they carry on just like the others have for the past six years.

The conversion plan is just a scam to help them buy the place with the unwitting blessing of the tenants. Not with my blessing...

I saw one of the "maintenance" guys going round with a pointed stick (for want of knowing the real name!) and a cart harpooning plastic bags and garbage on the 14th Street Loop. Problem was, he only picked up the garbage that was right at the edge of the "garden," but didn't bother walking a few steps to get the stuff that had blow in closer to the buildings. What a waste. This guy shouldn't be getting paid for doing such a crappy job.

I feel that the Tenants' Association has completely broken faith with the tenants and I wish I had not subscribed to membership all these years. They have done little to nothing about the quality of life violations here. All they seem interested in is becoming property owners. They just do not represent the tenants any more. Maybe they never did because apart from getting us a couple of dollars back on some of the more egregious MCIs, I can't think of anything else they've done. The Association is run like a smokey backroom deal dive (though probably minus the smoke) and they are as obtuse and devious as any politicians who do business in the proverbial smokey back rooms. I am very disappointed in them. I am a long term tenant whose quality of life has gone down the toilet since the apartment downstairs from me became a dorm/whorehouse (I kid you not) and I have no intention whatsoever of buying my apartment. The TA used to claim to be in favor of rent stabilization and affordable housing, but I am beginning to see that they are a bunch of liars and as for Garodnick, well he is just another sleazy, self-serving politician who I will never, ever again vote for no matter who his opponent is.

What I really love about many recent posts involves the necessity for higher insider pricing than many expect (assuming you're even interested in buying), as well as the "many" likely bids being assembled to buy the complex, due to its highly desirable location, thereby justifying those higher bids.

Excuse me, but haven't we heard this all before? Or are we that stupid that we've already forgotten the bear trap that Tishman and Co. fell into with their B.S. (read fraudulent) Wall Street accounting methods?

This place is NOT luxury...PERIOD. As Architectural Digest once noted, "It's Stalanist Architecture" and is solidly middle class...which is just fine. Calling it anything more is just a real estate agent-inspired sham designed to gin up pricing.

Or take it from Richard LeFrak, when he was asked last year if he would be intereted in buying, "Sure...but only for the right price. But c'mon, one bathroom apartments are NOT luxury in this city."

First of all, occupants are not allowed to move people in and out “every few months.” If this is true, we ask that neighbors report this activity to us. Secondly, the reason that we ask residents to call Public Safety with noise complaints, EVEN IF THEY HAVE CALLED BEFORE ABOUT THE SAME APARTMENT, is that our system tracks the worst offenders and kicks these cases up to the Legal Department. We then start a very aggressive campaign including the notification of the guarantors. This has been a very effective program with proven results. But we can’t know about noise unless Public Safety is called.

@Anony 11.22 AM-Please tell me that the threesome college combo were all women. Please, because if there's guy in the equation, then, as Jerry explained, you become an orgy guy. And if you become an orgy guy:

"Don't you know what it means to become an orgy guy? It changes everything. I'd have to dress different. I'd have to act different. I'd have to grow a moustache and get all kinds of robes and lotions and I'd need a new bedspread and new curtains I'd have to get thick carpeting and weirdo lighting. I'd have to get new friends. I'd have to get orgy friends. ... Naw, I'm not ready for it."

The "window" you were watching is just a clever ploy by the TA to convince you to buy your apartment.Live Porn, what they are not telling you is this is free now, but after you buy your apartment, you have to put 25 cents in the coin box for every 5 mins that you watch or the window shade comes down.

We usually get NO heat during the daytime Monday through Friday. They figure the earners are out at work and the useless old folks should catch cold and die. It helps empty out the low rent unrenovated apartments.

As has been the case for years, it appears that some apartments get tons of heat and some do not. Every winter for the past 13 years I have had to have my windows wide open due to stifling amounts of heat coming up. This, even when the temps are above freezing on occasion. Hopefully, issues like this will be resolved once the condo conversion is completed.

So why do people want to buy overheated or freezing apartments in a fire trap? I don't. The heating and plumbing always sucked and they still do. It's a stone-cold Rose heart that's worse than the Speyers. How will anyone resolve these things after the condo conversion? Hoping won't do it.

To anon 5:43, because after the condo conversion the engineers will have made their assessments and surveys and any engineering shortcomings will have been addressed. Also, as anon 7:06 mentioned, we're not going anywhere so we may as well own the dang thing and have some say. I am not in the camp which believes that stuy town one bedrooms will be 5 million dollars a piece. The carrying charges will be equivalent to our R/S rents. If the end of the cosmos does indeed ensue, as so many posters are predicting, we can just walk away. While I realize that the imminent implosion of this complex awaits us, I would like to remind people that building which were in far worse condition have undergone successful conversions.

No it won't defy physics but if you were planning on being a renter with all the bullcrap here for the next decade or two anyway, and leave your place possibly 2 your kids, we'd might as well own it. I'd like the tax deduction tbh, and i'd like some equity.

You only end up with equity if your purchase is ultimately worth more that what you pay for it--taking into account the future cost streams you will be responsible for as an owner vs. as a renter.

Nobody here has the quantitative inputs required to make that calculation so I find it confusing that so many people are ready to make the decision to buy. Maybe those same people won't be able to digest that data even when it is provided to them. Who knows.

I do know that P.T. Barnum had a name for folks like that. I also don't know who wants to leave an upside down mortgage "2" their kids.

"You only end up with equity if your purchase is ultimately worth more that what you pay for it--taking into account the future cost streams you will be responsible for as an owner vs. as a renter."

Based on what we will all be paying as insiders, the apartment WILL be worth more than what we pay for it. No need to worry about upside down mortgages "2" one's kids. There will be plenty of apartments to cover maintenance charges. Finally, if someone doesn't want to buy they don't have to.

if no tax abatement-then a NYC 2br condo would incur AT LEAST 600 in taxes a month--add mt probably at AT LEAST 600--THAT is 1,200 and that is VERY CONSERVATIVE--NOW LETS SAY 200K MORG PAYMENT-THAT IS AT LEAST 1,300 MT SO ALL TOGETHER 2,500 AND that is probably the cheap side....insiders price would be good but taxes could kill us

Then DON'T BUY!!! The tax issue exists for anyone that chooses to buy a Manhattan apartment so that's not here nor there. If you are worried about the tax burden, then DON'T BUY. Stay as a rent stabilized renter. What's the problem?

You're right you don't understand. Those of us who are real rent stabilized people dont want a conversion because voluntarily taking ANY apartments out of the rent stabilized pool makes it much more likely that rent stabilization will end sooner than later. After all politicians like those who showed up to support the TA plan could give a rats ass about RS, all they care about is votes. Every one of them would love to see RS end, then they wouldnt have to pander to the "poor folks". Instead they would be free to take money hand over fist from their wealthy real estate friends like TS, etc. We are not fans of that and we are not fans of the TA. Despite what you think everything isnt about you!

Right now all we have is assurances and a cloistered group of folks imploring us not to consider other alternatives.

A real plan would involve a binding legal document (how about an offering statement?!?). When someone shows me that, I'll be able to make at least a reasonably educated decision. Right now, anyone who proclaims to know how things will sort out is full of something--and that thing would not be facts...

Well I'm a "real rent stabilized person" and I support the Brookfield plan. I support it because I understand that it (and not RS) is the only way to protect affordable housing for the middle class into the future.

Good sir/madam: I have no doubt that you are able to follow a thought to its logical conclusion, so I ask you where in my statement did I mention that I "was ready to commit" to anything? I mentioned that I support the Brookfield plan. All any of us have to go on at this point in the info that was presented to us. If the "facts" of the proposal change from what has been presented, I do reserve the right to not support the proposal. I don't believe that I mentioned anywhere in my statement that I "was ready to commit".

Until There Is Silence No More

The Tenants Association and our councilman Dan Garodnick have mysteriously remained silent about a purported incident that occurred on July 12: the mugging by a group of individuals of someone right by Peter Cooper Village, along 20th Street.

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"We'll be introducing a new process to identify registered dogs thus enabling Public Safety Officers to clearly approach offending dog owners. The registration will hang from the leash handle; clearly identifying the dog as registered.

"If the dog is not registered by May 1; a summons will be issued at the point of contact. If we learn the dog owner is not a resident, they will be escorted off the property."

Rick Hayduk, CEO and General Manager of PCVST. Letter to Barry Shapiro, February 2016.

THINKING of Renting in PCVST?

Read Yelp reviews to find out what it's like living here. Please note: All apartments are currently "rent-stabilized" but that doesn't prevent apartments from going up to 4K to 6K a month and even higher. How does this happen? Ask our politicians! Fact: Now less than half of the complex's apartments have the old rents and it's getting worse year by year--or better if you are the Real Estate Board of New York!

The Other Yelp Reviews

Yelp can be tricky and bounce reviews for a variety of reasons, like being a member and posting just one review. Very often, however, these reviews hold important truths about what's being reviewed. READ THESE TOO.

BICYCLES, MOPEDS, SCOOTERS, ETC.

Of course, "private property" but "public access" - whatever that means! And if a part of it is public access, do the rules of the city apply to our roads and sidewalks? Or does anything give because this complex is "private property"? Who comes here in case of a fire in one of our buildings? The Stuy Town Fire Brigade?

Hint: Look both ways if you are in the complex. Look on the ground, too!

61.03 Control of dogs and other animals to prevent nuisance. (a) A person who owns, possesses or controls a dog, cat or other animal shall not permit the animal to commit a nuisance on a sidewalk of any public place, on a floor, wall, stairway, sidewalk, lawn, garden or roof of any public or private premises used in common by the public, or on a fence, wall [or], stairway or entranceway of a building abutting on a public place

Banned & Oversize Dog Breeds in Stuy Town

Looks like there is some difficulty in enforcing the ban on certain dog breeds allowed inside Stuy Town/Peter Cooper Village. Somehow pitbulls and pitbull mixes have been registered in STPCV and are allowed to be freely walked about the grounds! Registered dogs in the complex are max 50 pounds. Total, if there is more than one! More than two, it's illegal. It's going to get worse, and, face it, Stuyvesant Town and Peter Cooper Village will never be like it once was.

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Read it and Weep

Current Value of ST/PCV

Was 5.4 Billion Dollars when Tishman Speyer bought the place.Became 1.7 Billion Dollars when Tishman Speyer left, with their tail between their legs. Of course, tenants now have to make up the loss.

Ex-landlord

Rob Speyer

1947 Stuy Town Plaque Honoring Met Life Chairman F.H. Ecker (Removed in 2002 and never seen again)

"... who with the vision of experience and the energy of youth conceived and brought into being this project, and others like it, that families of moderate means might live in health, comfort and dignity in park-like communities and that a pattern might be set of private enterprise productively devoted to public service."

I am writing on behalf of everyone at Tishman Speyer to express how honored we are to become part of your outstanding community. We are a business with deep roots in New York, a true love of our city and a great respect for the neighborhoods that make it special. We are committed to maintaining the unique character and environment that have made Peter Cooper Village and Stuyvesant Town such a wonderful place to live for so long. We look forward to providing you an extraordinary level of service and attentiveness that will be the source of pride and satisfaction for the entire community.

Neighborhood Recommendations

New to Stuy Town/Peter Cooper Village? Here are some basic recommendations.

Best supermarket: Associated on 14th St. between 1st Ave. and Ave A. The cheapest prices, fantastic weekly sales, very affordable lunches; solid, responsive management, but earthy. Some of the young female cashiers have attitude to spare, though. May be too far for Peter Cooper residents.

Best gym: Don't waste your money on the Oval Fitness Gym. Instead go to the earthy but real Asser Levy Recreational Center, right above 23rd St on Asser Levy Place (near the FDR Drive). $75 for a year's membership; seniors are almost free. Contains seasonal indoor and outdoor swimming pools, ping-pong table, two pool tables. Called by some rich people who wouldn't get caught going there "the prison gym," and you know why.

A Stuy Town favorite is Lenz's on 20 St. between the 20 St. Loop. The way New York used to be. Be careful of unwanted "pepper" in your food, however. Lenz's got a B grade rating and was temporarily closed down due to an order from the Health Department. Bruno's on First Avenue is more upscale, with a greater selection of food items (higher-priced, too), but was closed down temporarily by the Health Department. Stuy Town's own cafe was closed, too! And not because of all the dogs that hover and piss outside.

Gracefully has two locations, but we prefer for its size the one on 1st Ave. Prices are high and reflect the new tenants that are currently renting Stuy Town and Peter Cooper apartments. ("Do you have a credit card?") We like Gracefully's lunch specials, which are somewhat affordable.

I priced the CVS on 1st Ave near 14st. The non-aerosol hairspray was 20 cents above CVS' own website price, and one of the highest in NY. (Yes, I have hair.) You can save at least a dollar or more buying at another place. So beware. Look around for a better deal on all your items.

I love warm Quaker Oats in the morning. Gristedes is not the place to get it, nor is Associated, though their price is less. Look around!

Macular Degeneration Support Group

If you are currently diagnosed with Macular Degeneration, the New York Eye & Ear Infirmary is offering a support group for you. Conveniently located next to the Peter Cooper Village Stuyvesant Town apartment complex, our group offers the opportunity to share stories with other members, listen to expert guest speakers, and learn coping strategies to reduce stress. Our group runs on the first Wednesday of every month and we would enjoy seeing you there.
Please contact Baptiste Nicolas, Social Work Assistant at 212-979-4105 for further information and to see if this group is right for you!