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Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

Definition of PEDOPHILIA
:sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object; specifically :a psychiatric disorder in which an adult has sexual fantasies about or engages in sexual acts with a prepubescent childhttps://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pedophilia

The American Psychiatric Association defines a paraphillic disorder as a condition in which people

•feel personal distress about their interest, not merely distress resulting from society’s disapproval;
or
•have a sexual desire or behavior that involves another person’s psychological distress, injury, or
death, or a desire for sexual behaviors involving unwilling persons or persons unable to give legal
consent.

The above means that a big group of people, pedophiles, are being categorized as having a mental disorder based on legal guidelines regarding the legal age of consent. If homosexual orientation is not a choice (but rather a normal aspect of human sexuality), and pedophilia is not a choice, shouldn't they be treated the same by the APA? Going further, why shouldn't necrophilia and zoophilia be recognized as simple variants of sexuality rather than as mental disorders? Legal restrictions shouldn't influence whether a certain sexual orientation is considered normal or a mental disorder.

What am I missing?

"If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

No. Because whether something is a choice or not is irrelevant to whether it qualifies as a paraphilia.

hmm...I may come back to this later.

Originally Posted by mican333

Because they fit the definition of a disorder.

Explain - what specific definition do they fit?

Pedophilia, zoophilia and necrophilia are not sexual orientations. They are mental disorders. Homosexuality is a sexual orientation and not a mental disorder.

The APA used to categorize homosexuality as a mental disorder. Changes in classification generally coincided with changes in public opinion.

Again, explain why homosexuality is NOT a mental disorder while the others ARE.

Apparently you are missing many major difference between homosexuality and certain paraphlias. You seem to be arguing from the position of ignorance as in using your lack of understanding regarding paraphilias and homosexuality as the basis of your argument about why we should treat them similarly.

Well then edumacate me, Mican. Make everything crystal clear to poor ignorant me.

"If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

Re: Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

The definition of a paraphilia. And since you posted that definition in your OP, you must know what it means.

Originally Posted by evensaul

The APA used to categorize homosexuality as a mental disorder. Changes in classification generally coincided with changes in public opinion.

As well as a better understanding of homosexuality.

Originally Posted by evensaul

Again, explain why homosexuality is NOT a mental disorder while the others ARE.

Because homosexuality does not fit the definition of a mental disorder and the others do fit the definition of a mental disorder.

Originally Posted by evensaul

Well then edumacate me, Mican. Make everything crystal clear to poor ignorant me.

I'm not saying that you yourself are at all ignorant. But your argument is. It argues as if there is no relevant difference which means that it's ignorant of any relevant difference. Since you provided a definition of paraphilia in the OP, I doubt you are personally ignorant of it.

Re: Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

Originally Posted by evensaul

So explain how you are applying it. Don't just point to it. What part of the definition applies to pedophilia and makes it a mental disorder?

"have a sexual desire or behavior that involves another person’s psychological distress, injury, or
death, or a desire for sexual behaviors involving unwilling persons or persons unable to give legal
consent."

Re: Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

Originally Posted by mican333

"have a sexual desire or behavior that involves another person’s psychological distress, injury, or
death, or a desire for sexual behaviors involving unwilling persons or persons unable to give legal
consent."

What makes you think that pedophiles have a desire to cause distress, injury or death? Support this.

Or are you saying that the second part about legal consent is what applies?

Come on, Mican, you're not normally this reticent. Speak up and explain yourself.

"If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

Re: Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

Originally Posted by evensaul

What makes you think that pedophiles have a desire to cause distress, injury or death? Support this.

The definition doesn't say that they have a desire to cause distress.

And is it your argument that pedophilia is not a paraphilia? If so, support or retract this assertion. If not, then you have no need to challenge me what I say it's not. So yes or no, do you agree that pedophilia is a paraphilia?

Re: Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

Originally Posted by mican333

The definition doesn't say that they have a desire to cause distress.

And is it your argument that pedophilia is not a paraphilia? If so, support or retract this assertion. If not, then you have no need to challenge me what I say it's not. So yes or no, do you agree that pedophilia is a paraphilia?

Again, The American Psychiatric Association defines a paraphillic disorder as a condition in which people

•feel personal distress about their interest, not merely distress resulting from society’s disapproval;
or
•have a sexual desire or behavior that involves another person’s psychological distress, injury, or
death, or a desire for sexual behaviors involving unwilling persons or persons unable to give legal
consent.

I see nothing there in the first half that necessarily applies to pedophiles. And the same for the first part of the second half. The final part should be stricken as it applies legal standards to psychological evaluations. So I see nothing that should classify pedophiles, as a group, as having a paraphillic disorder.

If you disagree, then offer a rebuttal. So far, all you've done is write a little but say nothing.

"If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

Re: Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

If homosexual orientation is not a choice (but rather a normal aspect of human sexuality), and pedophilia is not a choice, shouldn't they be treated the same by the APA?

No. Because whether something is a choice or not is irrelevant to whether it qualifies as a paraphilia.

Originally Posted by evensaul

Going further, why shouldn't necrophilia and zoophilia be recognized as simple variants of sexuality rather than as mental disorders?

Because they fit the definition of a disorder.

Originally Posted by evensaul

Legal restrictions shouldn't influence whether a certain sexual orientation is considered normal or a mental disorder.

Pedophilia, zoophilia and necrophilia are not sexual orientations. They are mental disorders. Homosexuality is a sexual orientation and not a mental disorder.

Originally Posted by evensaul

What am I missing?

Apparently you are missing many major difference between homosexuality and certain paraphlias. You seem to be arguing from the position of ignorance as in using your lack of understanding regarding paraphilias and homosexuality as the basis of your argument about why we should treat them similarly.

Re: Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

In the op I wrote: "Legal restrictions shouldn't influence whether a certain sexual orientation is considered normal or a mental disorder." Restated, legal definitions and concepts, such as a legal age of consent, should not be involved in determining mental disorders, because they are social constructs which may vary from country to country, by state, or over time.

You have not rebutted that position. When pressed, you evade and resort to asking me questions. So do you have a rebuttal? If so, write it.

"If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

Re: Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

Originally Posted by evensaul

In the op I wrote: "Legal restrictions shouldn't influence whether a certain sexual orientation is considered normal or a mental disorder." Restated, legal definitions and concepts, such as a legal age of consent, should not be involved in determining mental disorders, because they are social constructs which may vary from country to country, by state, or over time.

You have not rebutted that position. When pressed, you evade and resort to asking me questions. So do you have a rebuttal? If so, write it.

OK. The issue is harm. If one’s sexual desires, if acted upon, will harm another Then it can qualify as a paraphilia. And of course having sex with underage people who are too young to consent is uniformly harmful to those people. So when it comes to determining if one is old enough to consent, a pretty rational line is the legal age of consent.

Re: Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

Originally Posted by mican333

OK. The issue is harm. If one’s sexual desires, if acted upon, will harm another Then it can qualify as a paraphilia. And of course having sex with underage people who are too young to consent is uniformly harmful to those people. So when it comes to determining if one is old enough to consent, a pretty rational line is the legal age of consent.

No harm is committed by thoughts. A pedophile who sincerely swears off touching children and even looking at pictures harms no one. The inclusion of a legal age of consent is an artificial and inappropriate insertion to the definition of a mental disorder. Legal definitions had no legitimate place in determining whether homosexuality should be considered a disorder. Other sexual orientations should be addressed similarly.

"If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

Re: Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

Originally Posted by evensaul

No harm is committed by thoughts. A pedophile who sincerely swears off touching children and even looking at pictures harms no one.

But he still has a mental problem. Whatever clinical term you may accept or reject, you DO agree that there is something wrong in this guy's head, right? And it likewise makes sense to put a label on his dysfunction, right?

Originally Posted by evensaul

The inclusion of a legal age of consent is an artificial and inappropriate insertion to the definition of a mental disorder. Legal definitions had no legitimate place in determining whether homosexuality should be considered a disorder. Other sexual orientations should be addressed similarly.

First off, pedophilia is not a sexual orientation so the last comment is based on a false premise and is discarded for that reason.

And the legal age of consent is not artificial. It was determined by the relevant experts (not law enforcement but medical/psychological) that having sex with a person too young to consent is harmful to that person. So the age of consent is not forwarded randomly by some judge or law enforcement officer but by the appropriate psychological experts. And the legislature acts upon what the experts have forwarded as the age of consent and used that for the law.

So the mental definition of a paraphilia is not based on what law enforcement says. The mental definition is based on medical experts and the legal definition of age of consent is likewise based on that.

Re: Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

Originally Posted by mican333

But he still has a mental problem. Whatever clinical term you may accept or reject, you DO agree that there is something wrong in this guy's head, right? And it likewise makes sense to put a label on his dysfunction, right?

The label is pedophilia. Who are you to call it a dysfunction? Why is pedophilia dysfunctional while homosexuality is not?

Originally Posted by mican333

First off, pedophilia is not a sexual orientation...

Of course it is. The APA has bowed to public pressure to say that it isn't, but it most definitely is. Pedophiles are sexually aroused by children of a certain age. You and I find that disgusting, and the APA doesn't want to legitimize it, but if it isn't a sexual orientation, then why do pedophiles get sexually aroused by looking at children? It is just asinine to pretend they don't have a sexual orientation towards children.

Originally Posted by mican333

And the legal age of consent is not artificial. It was determined by the relevant experts (not law enforcement but medical/psychological) that having sex with a person too young to consent is harmful to that person. So the age of consent is not forwarded randomly by some judge or law enforcement officer but by the appropriate psychological experts. And the legislature acts upon what the experts have forwarded as the age of consent and used that for the law.

Do you deny that the legal age of consent varies from nation to nation, and by state within the US? Do you know what the age is for consent is for girls in much of the Muslim world? 12. Guess where else 12-year olds can get married in certain circumstances? Massachusetts. If psychiatric experts are determining a single age of consent, why aren't all the laws the same?

Originally Posted by mican333

So the mental definition of a paraphilia is not based on what law enforcement says. The mental definition is based on medical experts and the legal definition of age of consent is likewise based on that.

Of course it is based on what law enforcement says, that is why the word "legal" is included in the definition.

"If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

Re: Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

The label is pedophilia. Who are you to call it a dysfunction? Why is pedophilia dysfunctional while homosexuality is not?

Because one fits the professional definition of a paraphilia and the other does not.

Originally Posted by evensaul

Of course it is. The APA has bowed to public pressure to say that it isn't, but it most definitely is.

SUPPORT OR RETRACT this statement.

Originally Posted by evensaul

Pedophiles are sexually aroused by children of a certain age. You and I find that disgusting, and the APA doesn't want to legitimize it, but if it isn't a sexual orientation, then why do pedophiles get sexually aroused by looking at children? It is just asinine to pretend they don't have a sexual orientation towards children.

I'm sorry but words have definitions and while you are free to make up your own if you want, professionally the term "sexual orientation" does not apply to pedophiles.

Originally Posted by evensaul

Do you deny that the legal age of consent varies from nation to nation, and by state within the US? Do you know what the age is for consent is for girls in much of the Muslim world? 12. Guess where else 12-year olds can get married in certain circumstances? Massachusetts. If psychiatric experts are determining a single age of consent, why aren't all the laws the same?

I never said psychiatrists determine a single age of consent. They have determined the concept of age of consent.

Originally Posted by evensaul

Of course it is based on what law enforcement says, that is why the word "legal" is included in the definition.

If what law enforcement says is based on what the psychiatric experts say, then it's based on what the psychiatric experts say.

And really, this is just nit-picking on your part. Even if I were to accept that it's a bit funky that legal definitions of corresponds with the professional definition, the solution would be to find a better way to determine age of consent for the professional definition. This issue, even if conceded, in no way supports either throwing out the definition of "paraphilia" (a tweak would fix the problem) or saying that pedophilia is not a paraphilia/disorder.

Unless you are just going to not categorize sexual desires that, if acted upon, would involve unwilling partners (such as those who cannot consent), then pedophilia definitely deserves to be categorized as such. Arguing over which word is just nit-picking. Even in layman's terms, there is something wrong with such desires and it's appropriate to have a word to apply to such things

Re: Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

You may try to dispute this source, but the article gives a good general idea of what happened. There are other articles on the web explaining how the APA alters positions under pressure. It is not immune to politics.

"If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

Re: Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

You may try to dispute this source, but the article gives a good general idea of what happened. There are other articles on the web explaining how the APA alters positions under pressure. It is not immune to politics.

Just giving me a link is a linkwarz violation. So if you want to provide info from that link, cut and paste the pertinent text.

And keep in mind that I challenged you to support or retract that the APA bowed to public pressure to declare that pedophilia is not a sexual orientation when in fact, it is.