Q & A (June 2012)

I’ve been seeing a working girl I really like, and I think she likes me too, at least enough that she felt comfortable scheduling a day-long sightseeing trip with me in a few weeks. But I have my suspicions that she may not be doing this work out of her free will (i.e., she may be trafficked or otherwise forced into this). She works from 10 am until midnight 6 days a week, and is certainly not keeping the entire donation; she has both a boss and an operator who takes the appointments. She’s Asian and speaks virtually no English, and has been working only for a few weeks. She has very few possessions and sleeps in the same apartment where she works, and another girl works from a second bedroom while the operator works in the living room. I’d really like to help this girl because I think she’s too sweet to be in whatever situation she’s in. Could you give me some advice on how to approach the subject and how I could help her?

In “A False Dichotomy”, I pointed out that only the Paris Hiltons of the world freely choose to work; the rest of us have to do something, and our choices are limited by our abilities, temperament and opportunities. If any of those factors are unusually narrow, choices can be very constrained indeed; furthermore, a person may elect to temporarily perform a job he would not otherwise choose because it opens a door to greater opportunities later. This last is especially true for immigrants from poor countries; lack of education, language barriers and the high cost of migration present formidable obstacles to employment, so upon first arriving in a country a person might indeed take a job he doesn’t really care to do as a stepping-stone toward something better. For men, that’s often agricultural or other manual labor; for women it’s often domestic or sex work.

Could your lady friend have been coerced in some way? Anything’s possible, but nothing you’ve written points to that. You seem to think her hours are long, but I worked the same number per week and so do lots of people in sales jobs. You say she isn’t keeping her entire fee, but I’m sure you expect the operator to be paid and her employer to make a profit; I daresay you don’t keep all the money that passes through your hands at work, either, but that doesn’t mean you’re “trafficked”. And you say she has few possessions, but since she speaks virtually no English and has only been working a few weeks, it’s likely she hasn’t been in the country much longer than that, and would therefore have only those things she could afford to transport…which probably wasn’t much.

She may have incurred a debt to migrate; she may even be paying a rate of interest you or I would consider usurious, or be subject to other unpleasant conditions…but I could say the same thing about medical interns. None of that means she did not choose her situation as the best available one, nor that she regrets her choice. As I pointed out in “Thought Experiment” (which I strongly urge you to read), you have to give her the same respect as you would give anyone else; if you wouldn’t interfere in the affairs of a waitress, clerk or barber, you shouldn’t do it to a whore, either. You’ve scheduled a day-long trip with her, and since you like her you’ll undoubtedly continue to visit her after that; if she is genuinely in trouble and sincerely wants your help, she will eventually find a way to ask you for it. But if she doesn’t, you have to allow her the dignity of her own choice, even if you don’t like that choice.

I met an escort for the first time about 10 months ago and saw her again 3 months ago, and in the meantime she and I have exchanged emails; besides scheduling visits we also discuss personal things, and I find myself attracted to her (not just physically). I’m aware that from her perspective being polite and friendly (and sounding interested in her clients’ activities and interests) is good for business, but is there any way to tell the difference?

For women there’s a third possibility between “just being nice because it’s her job” and “sexually interested”: it’s “genuine like”. Men tend to be (not always, but usually) dualistic about women; either they’re attracted or they aren’t. But women often like men as people without feeling a sexual attraction, hence the dreaded “friend zone” men complain about. There were a lot of my clients I enjoyed talking to and socializing with, even though I would never have had sex with them had money not been involved. It’s really impossible for me to tell from a distance which group your escort belongs to, but while you’re trying to figure it out it’s important for you to remember that her affection could be sincere without being romantic.

What are your views on group sex when it is all male and you are the only female? I’m not sure how to handle the situation or what the best way to go about it would be.

My feelings about group sex where I’m the only woman are a lot like my feelings about being whipped: I’m really excited about it beforehand and get very turned on thinking about it after it’s over, but while it’s going on I’m mostly concentrating on getting through it. I know that may seem paradoxical, but sex is strange that way; sometimes the fantasy is a lot better than the reality. So don’t be disappointed if it falls short of your expectations; it’s still an amazing experience and fun to talk about later. When it’s one guy and multiple women things are a lot easier, because most women don’t mind a little kissing and touching or rubbing against other women even if they’re not really bisexual; they get caught up in the moment so (as the expression goes) “it’s all good”. But when it’s one woman dealing with a group of men she’ll be the focus of the whole thing, and while that’s exciting and exhilirating it’s also exhausting! Obviously that’s much less so if some of the guys involved are bisexual, but that’s really a different situation so for purposes of simplicity let’s just assume these are all strictly hetero guys we’re talking about.

Experience has taught me that even two at the same time is a handful, and three is about the practical maximum a skilled girl can work on at once. Yes, four is theoretically possible because you’ve got two hands, but you’d be surprised how much more difficult it is than three unless you have no gag reflex at all and the guys don’t mind pressing awfully close to one another. If you’re dealing with more than three guys it’s probably best to do it “train” or gang-bang style, with men taking turns rather than coming at you simultaneously from all directions. In a situation like that the action should occupy the center of the area, so the others can watch from the sidelines.

However, if you’re actually going to interact with more than one man simultaneously (i.e. true group sex rather than a “train”) it is absolutely imperative that you can trust at least one of them to protect your safety; it’s very easy for the one entering you vaginally or anally to slip off the condom while your attention is elsewhere, but if one of the men really cares about you he will also be watching to make sure that doesn’t happen. Men can be incredibly foolish when it comes to condoms; roughly a third of them will happily enter a whore or other promiscuous woman without any protection whatsoever, and since the most serious common disease today (HIV) is much more easily transmitted from man to woman than vice-versa, you have a lot more to lose than a would-be condom sneaker does. Even if you’re taking them on only one at a time, I would still advise you to have at least one out of four you can totally trust; even nice, normal guys can get caught up in the heat of the moment and turn into a pack, and you need to have a couple there who can be counted on to keep their heads just in case some of the others get carried away.

One Year Ago Today

An essay demonstrating that the “sex trafficking” hysteria is “Rooted in Racism”.

27 Responses

i just dont understand how so many men can be so reckless about their health.it is said that condoms take away part of the pleasure(although i dont know from experience,never had sex without one),but still how can they risk their lives like this?i beleive that thats one of the main reasons clients of sex workers should not be shamed by the general public,but get informed as much as possible about safety and health. if someone offers more money for sex without condom,a woman desperate for money might take the chance.

“alles ohne” … or “all without” (i.e. “bareback) is a fairly common, underground service provided in a lot of German Fkk’s and brothels and the additional charge varies from 50 to 200 Euro – but suprisingly, most men tell me it’s around 50 Euros. I’ll be visiting an upscale Fkk in a couple of months but I don’t engage in this service and I’m pretty sure none of the girls at this establishment provide it.

As a young man, in the 80’s – before we really knew about AIDS – whether or not I wore a condom depended pretty much on the girl. The few hookers I was with in the U.S. wanted them used so I did – though one hooker I developed a relationship with told me not to bother after one broke during a session and we never used one again.

When I visited Japan, or the Phillipines – none of those girls ever slapped anything on me though one was rifling through her purse in the dark once and I heard some plastic crinkling – I have no clue what she was doing though – it wasn’t a condum. To this day I remember that because it still bugs the hell out of me what she was doing – we did it twice that night and both times were preceded by this purse-rifling and celophane crinkling routine. Unless she was applying some kind of lube – which I didn’t feel by the way.

I never caught anything – except once … after I started dating my … wife! :P It was chlymidia and it was a breeze to get rid of.

So basically, back then – it was up to the girl. If they wanted a condom used – it was cool and I never argued and never even mentioned it. I always carried them with me in case they wanted to use one but didn’t bring one. It was pretty irresponsible on my part – because, although I didn’t fear disease – there was a real possibility of pregnancy. But – that was another thing I left up to the girl, I figured she knew or not if she were on the pill, and I assumed if she didn’t want a condom it meant she was on the pill. A couple DID stop me before the moment of truth and exclaim they didn’t want to get pregnant – so I did the “pull-out” thing thinking that was effective – which it isn’t. I got real lucky – none got pregnant though I got my wife pregnant twice while she was on the pill.

A funny story about women and their sexy lies for men. I had a girlfriend named “Cat” who was a sexual super-heroine. I DID ask Cat the first time I was with her if she wanted me to use a condom and she replied … “Absolutely NOT!”. And the way she said it was absolutely super-hot. She told me there was nothing to worry about since she was on the pill. Later I asked her how long she had been on the pill …

I suspect part of it is that men have never had the sex comes with risks (pregnancy) concept that we have. So it’s harder for them to wrap their minds around STD risks.

I’ve done quite a few group things, and Maggie’s right. It always depends on the person, of course, but the only issue I’ve ever found to handling multiple men at once is positioning.

I’ve done quite a few multiple men sessions, and here are some other things I’ve learned-

Make certain your position is comfortable, especially if you’re going to maintain it for any period of time. Relax. If you’re all tense, your muscles constrict and you get tired quicker. I know, it’s tough to be relaxed your first time, but it’s really helpful if you can be. Stay lubricated.No mater how excited you might be, after the 20th- or so man, you might chafe unless you are well lubricated. How much you’ll need just depends on you. I’ve found I need very little to go for hours, but I’ve known of women who got uncomfortable after a dozen or so.

If this is on camera, positioning becomes really important, and complex, you have to leave an “open side” for the camera, and you might have to get into a position that’s not totally comfortable. Try to support your self as best you can while maintaining stability. You’re not going to be able to relax if you’re feeling like you’re going to fall over.

Maggie’s spot on about the men being very uncomfortable being close to each other or touching. Often, they will get more turned on watching, and waiting their turn. she’s also spot on about if you’re using condoms, making sure all the men are wearing them. You didn’t go into detail on the situation you will be in, or how much you know or can trust these men. If you’re going into double or triple digits, it’s really best to have a “second”, some one standing by monitoring the situation, making sure that everyone is playing safe. If it’s a non-condom situation where everyone is supposed to be tested, it’s even more vital to have someone making certain to look closely at EVERY test paper, and it’s even better to have a second person making sure only tested men get to you.

Also, be careful about how men are going from one place to another, if they are. If they are going anal to vaginal, make sure they change condoms, or clean off. (If you’re doing that, really helps if you’re well prepared.) In the heat of the moment, they tend to forget that.

Ok, enough advice from me.

So, play safe, relax and have fun.

(Maggie, four at a time is more than theoretically possible, and five is do-able, believe me, I know. :))

I totally defer to your expertise in this matter, and in fact the only reason I didn’t contact you when I got the question is that I knew I could count on you to add your experience when it appeared! I also have to defer to you on four and five; I tried four once and it was so annoying I wanted to scream at them to let me alone. ;-)

It’s not “butting in” when your opinions are welcome, and I sincerely mean it when I say yours are among the most welcome. Even when they disagree with mine. Correction: especially when they disagree with mine. :-)

I guess I’m just too darned romantic – and I can’t do the multiple guy thingie. I know it’s not “gay” if it’s a “three way” but still – I think about another sausage in the room and potential for “tea-bagging” and I don’t think I could get it up if I taped a steel rod to it with duct-tape.

A friend of mine invited me to a “Lady Marmalaide” party in London – and I just told him … “Dude, I just don’t think that’s a venue I can perform in!” :(

I have nothing against public sex – and I think I can shut the men who are watching it out of my mind but I can’t if there’s a possibility they may jump into the action!! :P

It’s lined with a vasodilating gel. It’s specifically designed for men who suffer from erectile dysfunction when using condoms.

Now my personal opinion is that the best thing to do is just be a smart shopper when buying condoms and get ones that feel good. There is a big difference between brands and styles. By the way, I think the man should consider doing the shopping here. I found that when I let her do it, she would sometimes buy condoms that felt terrible and killed my erection. It wasn’t on purpose, she was just in a hurry and grabbed what was available. (I don’t know who designed these particular ones. The Pope maybe? Someone who wanted to stop the “sinning,” anyway.) However, she usually didn’t object if I brought my own. (In fact, one girl insisted that I bring them, I think she was worried about being caught with them on her.)

I thought about doing the multiple guy thing, there was a girl around here who did these kind of parties (I saw her twice, but just me and her), but ultimately I decided that even though I thought the idea was very hot that I probably wouldn’t be comfortable around the other men. It’s not a sexual phobia so much as it is that I tend not to get comfortable with strange men as quickly as I do with strange women. Besides she and I never connected very well.

Whatever you do – don’t buy the new Okimoto .002 or .003 condoms from Japan. These are the thinnest condoms available on the planet. The upside is – they truly do feel like “nothing” – seriously, they do. The down sides though? They seem to be made for some weird space alien race with extremely skinny penises – I broke two in a row of the .003 just putting them on. And because they feel like nothing – and they’re hard to see, you’re sitting there thinking … “WTF did I break this thing?” and then you have to do a strange “pull” check to see if the thing is still there, or if it ripped in half. Makes you look like a total spaz. You really feel like an idiot with this but I guess it’s pretty awesome for the ego when you rip it just slapping it on.

“Oh shit babe, wait a second – I’m sure I have bigger ones …”

Strangely, I got the THINNER .002 on with A LOT of work – I don’t think it’s latex though – some other kind of super polyurethane or something. It worked – you don’t want to look down at it too much because it’s so constricting that it looks painful – but isn’t too much so.

I just went back to the Okimoto Crowns – which are my favorite – they don’t smell like latex and they generally fit okay, though still a bit tight since I think they are made for Japanese men. But they are only .004 thicknes and as tough as nails. The down side is they are PINK tinged in color which … I don’t know why they did that.

I suspect part of it is that men have never had the sex comes with risks (pregnancy) concept that we have. So it’s harder for them to wrap their minds around STD risks.

Yes, but men also appear to be able to “zone out” of reality altogether when sex is involved. They can understand STDs exist, but then mentally hop to a parallel universe where disease is no longer present.

Since most adults are going to have an STD at some point (a super-majority if HPV is included), it is more useful to assume everyone is infected than the opposite.

Well Maggie, I certainly fall into the male duality paradigm and have very few female friends (mostly close work colleagues actually). However, since reading your column I think you could be an exception to that. I’d love to hang out for a few episodes of Pete and Pete over a few beers with you. BTW, thanks for turning me on to that show. I watched the shorts and LMAO!

With the guy who’s seeing the Asian call girl, there are a few things to keep in mind:

1. She’s definitely here illegally. Whatever the excuse she used for coming over, she wouldn’t have been allowed in if she had been honest about what she was coming here to do on her visa application. If she’s caught she’ll be deported, even if she has a valid visa. She’s probably on a tourist or a student visa, anyway, which means she’s legally not allowed to work at all. If she’s been here a fairly long time on her tourist visa, then she’s overstayed and is now undocumented. There is a possibility that she’s already legally married to an American, but the marriage may be not a real marriage but done for purposes of getting a green card.

2. Asian people from the poorer parts of Asia prefer to save as much money as possible while they are working in the US, and will put up with conditions that we Americans would consider squalid. This is not just undocumented aliens either, I’ve known H1-B Visa holders who lived in ridiculously squalid conditions because they were just here to save up as much money as they could before going home to live like kings.

Now, this is not to say she doesn’t have a bad deal and isn’t in a tough situation. However, it’s likely more nuanced then you think. For example, she might accept an offer of marriage from you and give up her current lifestyle, provided you would help take care of her, mom, dad, brother, sister and maybe chip in for a few water buffalo back home (that sounds sardonic, but a girl I chat with in Thailand bought her mom 4 water buffaloes. She’s a professional girl and works doing computer work, but she’s still Thai).

However, she’s not necessarily going to want to go home to work in a textile factory or what have you. (Heck she may prefer doing this kind of work in the US as opposed to Bangkok, where she has a lot more competition.) She probably wouldn’t even want to get a waitress job in the US, which doesn’t pay as well and is probably harder work (a Thai waitress I knew was getting carpal tunnel from carrying heavy trays of sushi in the restaurant where she worked). It’s also one of the very small number of alternative career paths she would have as a non-English speaking undocumented alien in the US. (Undocumented waitresses get ripped off just as hard as undocumented call girls, incidentally).

“Being a prostitute, engaging in prostitution, being a procurer of prostitutes, all are crimes involving moral turpitude. Living off the proceeds of prostitution makes one inadmissible.”

“However, being a customer of a prostitute is not a crime involving moral turpitude.”

Now, I figure this is just a legal answer and not a moral one, but I’m wondering what the logic is here? (I know that as Neofeminism has gotten more powerful, the idea that “being a customer of a prostitute” is worse than being a prostitute has caught on in much of the world. These laws were clearly written before the advent of the Swedish model and John Schools, I suspect.

Even so, I wonder how it works when they were writing the laws that being a customer of a prostitute is not a crime of moral turpitude but being a prostitute is.)

What a bizarre interpretation; so bizarre, in fact, that you’re the first person in two years to make such a pompous, snarky suggestion. If you knew anything about the persecution of sex workers, you wouldn’t need to ask why I choose not to show my face.

If he meant it that way he can apologize, but I suspect otherwise. I’ve seen that same tone used by collectivists against others many times. Because they are afraid to think for themselves, they want to beat down everyone who does.

About the “is she trafficked” question: it’s hard for me to put myself in the mind of a sex trafficker. That is, when I ask myself, “If I were coercing women to be prostitutes against their will, how would I go about it?” it takes me a while to come up with an answer. It’s just not the sort of thing I spend a lot of time thinking about.

But I’m thinking about it now, and one thing I would NOT do, if I were a trafficking pimp, is allow one of my girls to go off with a guy, away from me, for an entire day. There’s just too much chance she’d tell you what was going on, and I’d wind up in prison. Now, this doesn’t mean that your sight-seeing trip is proof positive that she isn’t a trafficking victim, but I feel that it’s strong evidence she isn’t. Maggie knows more about cases where trafficking has actually taken place than I do, and if she tells us I’m all wet about this, than I am.

Here’s one of the vile things about prohibition (and especially the Swedish model): if prostitution were legal and this guy truly felt something was wrong, he could go to the cops and say, “something’s not right” (we’ll pretend, for the sake of arguments, we live in a world where going to cops is a good idea). But in a prohibition situation, to do so exposes him to criminal charges, exposes her to criminal charges even if she’s legitimate and exposes anyone helping her to pimping charges. And the same goes double for working girls, who can’t alert someone to a potential bad situation without exposing themselves to charges.

Exactly so. That’s why health officials the world over are almost universally against prohibitionism; if it were not for laws against homosexuality, drug use and prostitution AIDS would be a rare, contained disease by now. Laws against these activities frighten sufferers away from seeking help, so they stay infectious and spread the disease further. Trying to change destructive behavior armed only with criminal laws is like trying to build a house from the ground up with only one tool: a sledgehammer.

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