The healthcare conspiracy

the reason i am against the national health care is this prison food is from the state that is payed by the citzens in that state and look how poor
the food is for that also if im not mistaken it will be 6 years before we even see a national healthcare since that is how long they want to rate
taxes for us so in essence we put stock in this health care plan for 6 years then finaly we are able to use it and it will be like prison food since
everone in the state is paying for prison food the end result will be in the same except just add one step ur money will go to the state then to the
goverment to the heath care providers so yay we all get to be treated equally and standrized

sorry for the bad spelling and some info may be incorrect ecause it is old data and/or i personaly misunderstood plz correct if im am wrong

So right now I have insurance from a large provider... and I have had to use it often ... I had to have a couple of catscans and a couple of MRI's
and they were approved same day... sure I had to pay a bit on my end but I am freeking alive so until I see a "New Plan" that is as good or better
than what I have today AND is good enough for our "Politicians" without the "exemptions" for the "chosen" I will stick with what I have.

[edit on 10-8-2009 by infolurker]

So say you lose your job tomorrow, you probably won't be able to afford insurance anymore. Now your insurance lapses and it seems from your post you
probably have some existing condition. How are you going to feel about this same system then? I would bet that a no cost system that covers you would
start looking pretty good as you sit there in pain.

You stated unless its as good or better then you currently have but it's shortsighted to think you will always have that coverage. How about the
people that have no coverage, do you not care at all what happens to them? How do you know this won't be better then you have? Job losses are
climbing every day, let's just hope that as winter comes we don't have a lot of people die because they can't afford to get treated since they lost
their jobs.

So why would you want to keep letting the insurance companies mandate what care you receive than the Government?

So back to the OP.

If you dont want to pay for your neighbor then why do you pay for your neighbors health care through the fire service.

Answer that question because I will not fall for you derailing this thread again.

If my neighbor is ill it has no effect on me, if my neighbors house catches fire there is the chance my house will catch fire too. We don't pay the
fire service for our neighbors protection we pay it for ours.

What has been the saddest part to me, is watching my fellow Americans finally stand up and protest the Government with the fervor and passion we
should have had for our Constitution all these years, and knowing that they are unwittingly doing it in support of giant corporate conglomerations
which do not care if they live or die. When individual's rights to fair trials were stopped there were no protest among the average citizens. When
Habeus Corpus was suspended, again the middle class working Americans did nothing. But when a suggestion to overhaul health care in America - the Top
10 US Health Insurance companies profits rose buy over 400 % between 2000 and 2007, while one fifth of Americans who had coverage lost it - when that
industry is put on the block for reform, now... now the average citizen will protest. Why? The reform suggested may not be the best plan we could
come up with, but that is why you need to go to your Congessperson's town hall meeting and talk, discuss alternatives, find out information. But to
go there simply to shout down those who want reform out of fear, this is sad to me. I have read some of the proposed reform and do not like all of
it, but I know there is no "death panel." Obama is a tool of the PTB just like those that came before him, and those that will follow, but he is
not a SOCIALIST either. Stop being afraid, America. Think, act, and yes, finally give a sh*t about your freedoms. But don't buy into the protests
on behalf of insurance companies profits. They will take your money every month for your entire life, but when you get sick they will force you to
sue them 90% of the time. It is a racket, a game of three card monty which you cannot win.

If my neighbor is ill it has no effect on me, if my neighbors house catches fire there is the chance my house will catch fire too. We don't pay the
fire service for our neighbors protection we pay it for ours.

Do I think thats right? No, but that is your answer.

No you are dead wrong.

Most of our runs are medical. Almost all your tax dollars to the Fire service is for medical.

Anyway why would anyone be so selfish to not give a damn what happens to there neighbor.

This is how a teenager thinks, not an adult.

Anyway the analogy is because most of what you pay for the Fire service is for medical reasons and a lot of them are for non emergency cases.

The fire dept. is now EMS? Sure I know fire fighters are trained in basic CPR and stuff like that, but that is a lot different then sticking an IV in
your arm and cutting you open to remove a tumor or needing brain surgery or what not. I hate to break it to you, but fire fighters are not
professional doctors, they might be in training or want to be a doctor at some point, but they don't surgery.

Most departments have Paramedics and EMT. An EMT runs IV lines, intubation tubes, we fix sucking chest wounds, eviscerated intestines, you name we do
it. The Paramedic can administer drugs. We have medical licenses. We are by Federal and state law health care providers.

You are out of your league in arguing these points. I know I do this everyday, it is what we do. How many houses do you see burning? Most times when
you see a Fire truck running code it is for a medical run. Its big and gets through traffic better because its like a ramrod and everyone pulls over
for it, unlike an ambulance.

I'm not out my league. You are trying to compare the fire fighters to surgeons and general practitioners.

The analogy you made has no comparison to me going to my doctor willingly and having some government bureaucrat decide what treatment I'm going to
get.

Fire fighters and EMT's trained in emergency medicine to do what it takes to stabilize a person if they are injured. It is a completely different
situation than a doctor diagnosing me with something and then leaving it up to the government to decide if they are going to pay for the treatment or
not.

It's that simple. Fire Fighters and EMT's are not surgeons, unless they are going to school to become a surgeon or have been a surgeon before they
transferred to being a fire fighter or EMT.

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
The analogy you made has no comparison to me going to my doctor willingly and having some government bureaucrat decide what treatment I'm going to
get.

I guess it boils down to who you want making that decision, a government bureaucrat, or somebody in India where most insurance companies outsource
their claims jobs. Just because you and your doctor decide on a treatment, it does not mean your insurance company will approve it, FYI. Medical
necessity is still a factor, regardless who is making the call.

The only conspiracy I see is the lack of comment and discussion about the use of "cover your ass" type medicine.....the one that schedules every
test and scan possible in attempts to stave off possible malpractice suits. That may be the single reason why the U.S.'s health care costs are so
high compared to other countries.

That's where the higher costs occur....not in the necessary care, but in the bogus, unnecessary stuff performed only as a defensive measure.

End the jury decided malpractice suits.....establish a "pool" that can pay those injured in the course of their treatment....and save billions not
performing needless, time consuming, and expensive tests.

So why would you want to keep letting the insurance companies mandate what care you receive than the Government?

So back to the OP.

If you dont want to pay for your neighbor then why do you pay for your neighbors health care through the fire service.

Answer that question because I will not fall for you derailing this thread again.

If my neighbor is ill it has no effect on me, if my neighbors house catches fire there is the chance my house will catch fire too. We don't pay the
fire service for our neighbors protection we pay it for ours.

Do I think thats right? No, but that is your answer.

Actually you do indeed pay for your neighbors fire protection along with crime prevention and a number of other programs. If a house is on fire 2
blocks over, it has no effect on you yet you pay for it.

Also the reality is that if your neighbor is indeed ill, it may very well effect you. If you neighbor fails to get treatment for a communicable
disease, you may get it. If your neighbor is out of work and loses his/her home due to prolonged illness, and the home is foreclosed, the value of
your house will most likely drop. I could go on and on.

The reality is that national health care COULD be a good thing if done right and there are so many people that are either not insured or under
insured, we need to make sure they're taken care of. We need to help our fellow Americans. What's wrong with that?

We have a RIGHT to health care people !!!!
You know the same health care we pay for our government employees to have....irony

There you go! The point I have been trying to make for this entire thread... IF we are going to get a "public option", then we better make damned
sure we get a GOOD plan (and it isn't going to be GOOD if Congress exempts all of their "special" groups and THEMSELVES). Unfortunately to many of
these guys would SETTLE for crap just to spite an insurance company or to say "their side won... yeah" ... oh wait, we all got screwed".... Thanks
allot! THINK about the big picture and the long term people.

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
This entire debate about healthcare is a conspiracy from the insurance companies. They have put up enough money and got a pseudo-grassroots mocement
going against it.

Here is a valid question to those that believe we do not have a right to healthcare free from the insurance companies dictating what they will pay and
what services you get.

If you dont want to pay for others healthcare why do you agree to paying for the Fire Service? Its about all we do is give healthcare. you get hurt we
drive to your house at speed risking our lives to fix your boo boo.

So why then do you pay for someone else to have the right to dial 911? I think you should have insurance for that. Here is how it could work.

"911 whats your emergency?"

"Uh my son set the cat on fire and burned his hand, then the cat ran back in the house and now the house if on fire."

"Your insurance carrier please"

"I dont have insurance"

"Thank you for dialing 911, we suggest you get your garden hose out put out your home and give your child some salve and a band-aid."

If you think you should not pay for your fellow countrymen/womens healthcare then you should not pay for theyre emergency mistakes either.

The insurance companies are scamming you.

No one is denied emergency treatment because of lack of insurance. Yes, I am calling you a liar.

You don't get asked for you insurance when you call 911. Your ambulance crew will ask for billing information, but they still will take you to the
hospital, even if they know they aren't going to be paid. They just charge the rest of us more. Yes, I am calling you a liar.

Health insurance companies don't have to pay people to say they don't want the government to control their health care. Yes, I am calling you a
liar.

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