On 2013-02-12 04:26, Anestiki wrote:Well, there is nothing truly authentic about tiki in general. It is an invention of mainland Americans about an idealized polynesia that never existed.

And yes, after the thousandth mai tai and navy grog, although made authentically, it is refreshing to have a change.

At least there are a few people who are creating and not endlessly parroting something that has already been done.

This is a bit odd coming from someone who has been here for some years, has a great home Tiki room etc.

Is it not our main mission here to embrace, recreate, preserve the "Vintage" Tiki lifestyle
I myself need a semblance of authenticity & a working knowledge of the history that allows us to enjoy classic
decor, architecture, cocktails etc. that I grew up with.

I find that many of the younger members here don't feel, or get that, But to be fair it was before their time.

I just feel a need myself to honor those roots, sure nothing wrong with adding a new cocktail recipe
but it lacks any history & nostalgia that is at the core of our Tiki scene.

First of all, I meant no disrespect to Beachbum Berry's books. They are amazing drinks.

However, if the tiki revival is to be more than a passing fad, it has to do the hard work of adding something new that keeps people excited (maybe even create their own drinks that people will be looking back to 50 years from now...). Otherwise, it will only be a pale reflection of the original era (albeit with some amazingly good cocktails).

For the last several years I have seen very few new ideas presented. It is definitely not as fun to search through the forums as it used to be. I believe we're all over the initial excitement of rediscovering the golden era of tiki. It should move on to experimenting and adding to the canon of great tiki drinks. Sometimes the experiments won't work or be mediocre, but I'm sure there's another great tiki drink just around the corner. Who wouldn't want to re-experience the equivalent of their first Trader Vic's Mai Tai again?

I was simply putting forth my current favorite books. I was not looking to supplant all of the hard work done by the original creators as well as those who have researched them and brought their hard work to light.

Anestiki, you have a completely valid point of view
I just don't think I agree with it

As a former Bartender, I can not think of a single cocktail from the last 30 years
that is better than any classic/vintage cocktail of the first half of the last century.

But maybe I don't look at "Tiki" like the rest of you, I am not looking to improve it
or evolve it, I am perfectly happy just having my Dad's version of it.

Now I am fine with the "Tiki Revival" of today, being a mash up of several influences
that are not a part of the classic Tiki Bar experience, just as long as I have the vintage "Don's, Mai Kai or mid century Chinese/Tiki dive
that was just as it was some 60 years ago.

I see Donn Beach, Trader Vic (and their staffs) as the giants whose shoulders modern mixologists stand upon. I think you can argue that most every "new" recipe out there is a riff/variation on an extant classic. What I like about the old recipes is that they're a bit more "forgiving" as far as substitutions for rums and other ingredients; they tend to withstand a bit of tinkering. Like, for example it's nice to know you don't need Ron Zacapa 23 to make the drink "work"

Regarding both points of view, let's not forget that the last section of BeachBumBerry's Remixed features many new recipes from the Tiki Revival. This disagreement appears to have resulted from the unfortunate choice of the word "boring" to describe the classics. Of course any drink can become boring if drunk often and to the exclusion of all others.

Perhaps some object to the new recipes being referred to as Tiki drinks since they didn't originate during the 50's and 60's Tiki bar heyday but they are certainly exotic. Where does that leave the Zombie or Mai Tai? I think the term Exotic Cocktail adequately describes recipes, both old and new, that have five or more ingredients!

An activity sure to initiate much participation would be for the Tiki Central community to categorize drinks as either exotic, tropical or tiki.

I would add that one of the pleasures of the old classics is that they generally do not incorporate (or suffer from) the "flavored" spirits we see so often used today. There is a certain elegance and pleasure I associate with using a "straight" spirit and then enjoying the various effects of the "old-timey" syrups and flavorings. The interaction and the "edges" of the flavors are delivered differently into the mixture.

Are the old classics good? Mostly yes. Can people make good "new" drinks today? Absolutely yes. The "new" drinks today have a whole different suite of ingredients from which to choose. Times are different, and tastes evolve with the times. But that evolution is not always better. Fortunately there is a well-established bastion of folks like us TC'ers who care to remember and enjoy and thereby preserve the known mixology home-runs of the past.

I seems to me that a few of the comments about various recipe books mentioned in this thread are loaded with some broad generalizations which I personally wouldn't make. I think it is a difficult stretch to simply declare one author or book as "better" than another when the recipes come from completely different time periods, select from completely different palates of ingredients, and are in some cases of completely different levels of complexity. One in particular often stays in the realm of 8-to-15 or so ingredients versus the others tendency to stay in the realm of 4-to-8 or so ingredients. These differences are what drive many of us to begin collecting and experimenting with various books and the various "genres" or "styles" or "time periods" of the mixology contained in each.

On 2013-02-13 04:41, Atomic Tiki Punk wrote:Anestiki, you have a completely valid point of view
I just don't think I agree with it

As a former Bartender, I can not think of a single cocktail from the last 30 years
that is better than any classic/vintage cocktail of the first half of the last century.

But maybe I don't look at "Tiki" like the rest of you, I am not looking to improve it
or evolve it, I am perfectly happy just having my Dad's version of it.

Now I am fine with the "Tiki Revival" of today, being a mash up of several influences
that are not a part of the classic Tiki Bar experience, just as long as I have the vintage "Don's, Mai Kai or mid century Chinese/Tiki dive
that was just as it was some 60 years ago.

I am curious to what everyone else thinks ?

I don't think we've yet exhausted the possibilities presented by the suite of ingredients Donn and Vic made use of. Those are some broad shoulders we're standing on. I'll keep iterating on their ideas, doing things the hard way, and see what I can come up with.

And frankly, if I was left just with a 1934 Don's Zombie and a Trader Vic's Mai Tai I think I'd be just fine.

Target release date is August 13, 2013 - that's just a few weeks from now. Book description, along with pre-order link, is pasted below. I've ordered a copy and will post details here when I get my copy.

BOOK DESCRIPTION AND PRICE GUARANTEE FROM AMAZON:
Publication Date: August 13, 2013
All of us need a break now and then, whether it's from the stress of everyday life or the boredom that comes with routine. You'll find it in Liquid Vacation, a colorful, sometimes wild walk through the tiki culture in Las Vegas, from the early days of the Stardust Hotel to the present as it's embodied by Frankie's Tiki Room, just minutes from the famous Strip. Liquid Vacation author P Moss, a dedicated student of the tiki culture, walks readers through the swaying palms, whispering bamboo and rustling grass skirts of the tiki world from Aku Aku and Don The Beachcomber to Frankie's, the world's only 24/7 tiki bar, and especially the drinks that make tiki tiki. Liquid Vacation is written by P Moss with original tiki drink recipes by: Chris Andrasfay, co-founder of Frankie's Tiki Room, and bartenders Allison Hartling and Mike Richardson.

Special Offers and Product Promotions
Pre-order Price Guarantee! Order now and if the Amazon.com price decreases between your order time and the end of the day of the release date, you'll receive the lowest price.