If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Re: Obitos Dimension Jutsu

The real question is why did Kishi state (trough the manga) that Obito can't attack when going intangible when he can turn just a part of his body intangible? Why is he not turning his torso intangible to avoid an attack and then swing his arm with a kunai to kill a guy?

Yeah all the question you put up are a plot hole if you ask me but in the end ... Its just a manga.

I can put even better ones.

If he turns his eyes intangible how can he see? The light would go trough him.
If he turns himself intangible WHY is he visible? If light goes trough him he should be invisible.
If he turns his head intangible how can he hear? Air would not interact with him and so sound waves would not interat with him. This could be argued that having the rest of his body tangible the sound waves would propaget trough his own body but then how is his body here comunicating with his body that exist in another dimension?
If he turns himself intangible HOW can he speak? How is teh air from our dimension interacting with him? Sound waves need a medium (air) to propagate.
If he turns intangible like vs the Bijudama (complet and 100% of himself) WHY is he still on Earth? If he is completly intangible then there is no force of gravity to hold him on earth and considering the speed the earth turns around its axis(around 1000 miles per hour depending on where you are) he should be in space by now.

Thing is after i noticed a human moved at the speed of light, ending on the other side when he had friction with our atmosphere and said human was just fine... Even better then this at the end of this travel said humans impacted 2 diferent objects AT THE SPEED OF LIGHT and just about nothing happened.
No idea how many people know this but if you can move an object at the speed of light (imposible as you need more enerngy then you have in the universe, infinite) then said object would have infinite mass. Going by my logic and object with infinite mass would also have infinite density(not sure abotut this).. In essence Raikage and Tsunade where traveling black holes lol.

Re: Obitos Dimension Jutsu

@Suzaku

No, no. He is CONTROLING IT. If it was an automatic response then Minato would never get that drop on him.

But now let's asume he is not controling it. The simple fact that he knows his chest would be intangible when someone hits that area and the rest would be tangible would be enough for him to do the same thing as if he would control it.

Re: Obitos Dimension Jutsu

Physics in Naruto aren't realistic, anyway. They shouldn't bother you. The fact that his eyes have magical properties in the first place is just as unrealistic.

If they explain how an ability works, you pretty much just have to take it at face value.

It has to at least be consistent with what we know, though- this is how suspension of disbelief works and why we can say that magical eye powers aren't unusual by this point because that's a standard thing in this story. The intangibility aspect of Kamui doesn't act like anything else in the series. At least his teleportation and alternate dimension thing have some analogues that don't break established logic with how the world works. We have super-speed that resembles teleportation, actual teleportation with FTG and various forms of Kuchiyose, several different 'dimensions' like the Fushi Tensei and mental bijuu realms and Pure World. Intangiblity just doesn't really fit unless it's like Dan's jutsu where he literally turns into a ghost and can seemingly only fly around and interact with living people.

Tobi gets to have his jutsu cake and eat it too by being in both 'another dimension' and the physical world at the same time, raising all kinds of questions about how he can even do something like walk while phasing through Kakashi's body. We've seen a lot of crazy shit in Naruto, but Kamui's intangibility jutsu just doesn't fit in some peoples' opinions, and rightfully so in my own.

No, no. He is CONTROLING IT. If it was an automatic response then Minato would never get that drop on him.

But now let's asume he is not controling it. The simple fact that he knows his chest would be intangible when someone hits that area and the rest would be tangible would be enough for him to do the same thing as if he would control it.

I think Suzaku meant there's nothing to suggest he can control which *parts* are intangible, not the actual response (like Gaara's sand). I don't think it makes sense either way, since there would be no way for him to keep clothes on or keep those chains attached when he was fighting Minato and phasing in and out if it was an on/off switch for his whole body. It's definitely on a per-part basis and it's almost definitely done on his own accord at the speed of Sharingan-enhanced reflexes, but it can also be instinctively/subconsciously like in the last chapter with Rin and Kakashi's bodies. All of it is ridiculous though :P

Re: Obitos Dimension Jutsu

Lol I think it was shown when he tried to touch rin that he had just found out how to control it. At first his hand goes through her, then it doesn't. He has absolute control over the technique which is why Minato got the best of him. He has to know or guess in advance which part of him he wants intangible otherwise he get's raped. This is actually the best technique to give an idiot like Obito, there isn't much skill involved actually. Oh I don't wanna get hit, let me turn that off real quick. Oh ok now I wanna grab naruto let me turn that on real quick.

My best guess is that Gravity doesn't affect him unless he wants it too either. As shown when the Kunai went through his head, then he WTF kicked it at naruto. I mean really, that crap was so stupid it was funny. Unless I missed something :<

As for the OP was asking, if his leg is intangible in one dimension and it isn't in the other he center of gravity hasn't changed. For you to fall you have to lose your center of gravity, essentially mind over matter. Which is why most people catch themselves by slamming their legs back down on the ground to maintain that center of gravity. I'm totally guessing on this part

Edit

Him being able to decide whether gravity affects him was also shown when he emerged from the ground and ordered the bijuu's to attack. IIRC he didn't place his arms on the ground he just sorta floated upwards.

Naruto's sealing-cloak is ugly, he needs to finish his chakra agreement with kyuubi already!

Re: Obitos Dimension Jutsu

Originally Posted by badluckartist

I think Suzaku meant there's nothing to suggest he can control which *parts* are intangible, not the actual response (like Gaara's sand).

Yes, exactly. I'm saying that he can either turn the ability on or off, and that it creates a special state in his body, where it will automatically warp into the other dimension when it comes into physical contact with another object. That's the only way it makes sense. If he could control which portions become intangible, he'd be able to attack even while passing through his opponent.

As for physics issues such as clothing, the ground, his organs, etc., like I said, those are just things you have to suspend disbelief with, as is almost always the case when fiction deals with incorporeality, teleportion, and time travel. Why don't ghosts fall through the ground? Why don't time travelers wind up in the vacuum of space? There are consistent issues in fiction which you just need to accept as a non-issue.

If you're going to get into stuff like that, I mean, where do you stop? Trying to figure out the mechanics of an eye with moving patterns in the pupils? Eyes that can create a vortex to another dimension? How's that organ supposed to work? How would such abilities be activated purely by emotion? Hormones? If that's the case, why can't they induce it manually through science? How was Kabuto able to acquire genetic traits simply by transfusing a slurry of dead bodies into his blood stream? Why didn't he just immediately die, which is what would happen if you did that in the real world?

See what I mean? Start picking at that paint chip and pretty soon you've got a hole in the drywall.

Re: Obitos Dimension Jutsu

Start picking at that paint chip and pretty soon you've got a hole in the drywall.

That goes for to a lot of things in life, at least in fiction you always have the option to play by their rules. And I think you can have some fun trying to decipher things.

[irrelevant details]

---

@OP Mmmphh I didn't really want to get involved but I think for simplicity's sake you should look at the situation differently.

Suppose the following: there are two Obitos -- one that functions like any normal human being and the other being an Obito that uses MS. So what's happening is there's some sort of tag-teaming between the two. This can be described as the true or false tangibility Suzaku mentioned above (which actually suits this situation well) as the manga has repeatedly illustrated.

And for argument's sake assume that the sole mechanism allowing this is in fact the MS (which doesn't always function through physical means). In this case, when it's activated the first Obito switches into the second, hence becoming an object (still real) but with no fixed point in the physical world --> a continuous being becoming discrete without losing grasp of its former state (though they're still one).

The proof(s) of this is that [1] as he's using the MS the first Obito continues to reflect light (people can still see him). And furthermore it's established that [2] a soul is required for autonomy in Naruto, [3] while only chakra is required to imitate life. We've seen this with Orochimaru (his arm sealed) and more comprehensively with Sasori (body made from puppet equipment). Obito satisfies both requirements therefore affecting relevant "dimensions" appropriately whether it's simultaneously, one or the others, real or imaginary, or none at all is beside the point (yet so far it seems that he can only attune himself to affect one of them at a time). Or in other words as long [2] and [3] is stable with [1] "Obito" is maintained.

It's also quite cool that what Obito's pulling off right now is a derivative of Banbutsu Sōzō. Through him Kishi's actually sharing a little of what the S6P (who had mastery of it) could've done (why it had to be him, I don't know). Though we need definitions of the Yin and Yang from Kishi because the MS draws from both, hence, since we don't know how exactly they interact with its users yet, it's probably impossible to describe this transition even at a crude level. For instance, I don't know what will happen to him if his MS (again assuming it's the sole mechanism for his tangibility) is crushed while he's switching states.

Originally Posted by pera2

Real question is, if he steps through Kakashi, his foot is in another dimension, so how come he is standing? What is he standing on in this dimension?

He appears to be standing from observer's pov but it doesn't mean that he's actually standing or even anywhere at that particular point in time while at the second state. Afaik Obito only needs to be aware that he's standing --> as in he doesn't need to brace himself to avoid falling limp like a banana peel while in that second state because 'over there' isn't the physical world (in a loose sense) but if he does consciously force himself to stand in order to maintain posture or some position, it's something I have no understanding of simply because I've never been there --> hence why I've brought up the two states and typed all this "for simplicity's sake" --> hence Naruto being able to make contact with Obito 'over there' through sight and force even he's actually a 'normal person'.

Re: Obitos Dimension Jutsu

Originally Posted by Suzaku

Yes, exactly. I'm saying that he can either turn the ability on or off, and that it creates a special state in his body, where it will automatically warp into the other dimension when it comes into physical contact with another object. That's the only way it makes sense. If he could control which portions become intangible, he'd be able to attack even while passing through his opponent.

As for physics issues such as clothing, the ground, his organs, etc., like I said, those are just things you have to suspend disbelief with, as is almost always the case when fiction deals with incorporeality, teleportion, and time travel. Why don't ghosts fall through the ground? Why don't time travelers wind up in the vacuum of space? There are consistent issues in fiction which you just need to accept as a non-issue.

If you're going to get into stuff like that, I mean, where do you stop? Trying to figure out the mechanics of an eye with moving patterns in the pupils? Eyes that can create a vortex to another dimension? How's that organ supposed to work? How would such abilities be activated purely by emotion? Hormones? If that's the case, why can't they induce it manually through science? How was Kabuto able to acquire genetic traits simply by transfusing a slurry of dead bodies into his blood stream? Why didn't he just immediately die, which is what would happen if you did that in the real world?

See what I mean? Start picking at that paint chip and pretty soon you've got a hole in the drywall.

you guys got me thinking about konan...how did she know the details of obito's jutsu/techs?

did nagato or yahiko fight him...or who did they see him fight?

because i highly doubt that she guessed the time limit thingy...how did she get this insight?
i know she was a top-notch spy/sensory shinobi...but i also know this would not be something obito would just tell them(his weakness).

Re: Obitos Dimension Jutsu

Originally Posted by gnut

whats wrong bro...what did i say?

wasn't trying to take it off topic...

It's nothing that you said.

I was somewhat referring to my initial post here, in that I find it difficult to communicate understanding using day-to-day English. In this case it would've been a lot easier with diagrams, symbols, numbers, and manga panels (but who wants to digest all that information?). And I have no idea where anyone else stands with regards to this manga or real world background so I have to spell things out, try to condense it somehow for forum use while hoping that I get my point through. That's all.

Re: Obitos Dimension Jutsu

Originally Posted by Akabeth

It's nothing that you said.

I was somewhat referring to my initial post here, in that I find it difficult to communicate understanding using day-to-day English. In this case it would've been a lot easier with diagrams, symbols, numbers, and manga panels (but who wants to digest all that information?). And I have no idea where anyone else stands with regards to this manga or real world background so I have to spell things out, try to condense it somehow for forum use while hoping that I get my point through. That's all.

no...it's cool
i got your post but i had already referenced suzaku...
but the konan question still remains...how did she know