Posted by MikeT23 on 8/22/2013 2:29:00 PM (view original):LOL. In the all important WAR category, Raines and Lofton were 69 in 23 and 17 seasons, respectively. Ichiro is 59 in 13. I don't even need a calculator to know who's brought more value to their teams.

Yeah, Raines. You can't bring value if you aren't there.

Dumbass.

So I could dig up Babe Ruth, throw his bones on the field for another 5 years and he'd still be more valuable than pretty much anyone for his career? That seems retarded.

Retard.

You do realize that a dead body would have a negative WAR, right? Or did you not know that? If Ruth were able to come back and play zero WAR ball for 100 more years, he wouldn't lose value.

I do. Ruth was 155 or so on his career. I think ARod is the active highest about 30 points behind him. So, if I kept rolling Ruth's bones out on the field, he'd be more valuable than ARod for how long?

Posted by bad_luck on 8/22/2013 2:44:00 PM (view original):Also, Ichiro will probably play a few more years at near zero WAR baseball. And he's a special case since he was dropped into MLB in his prime, he didn't play as a 19 year old like Raines.

So, at zero WAR, Ichiro can play 7 more seasons and add as much value per season as Raines. Yet, somehow, Raines should be a lock for the HOF while Ichiro is a "no"?

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/22/2013 2:29:00 PM (view original):LOL. In the all important WAR category, Raines and Lofton were 69 in 23 and 17 seasons, respectively. Ichiro is 59 in 13. I don't even need a calculator to know who's brought more value to their teams.

Yeah, Raines. You can't bring value if you aren't there.

Dumbass.

So I could dig up Babe Ruth, throw his bones on the field for another 5 years and he'd still be more valuable than pretty much anyone for his career? That seems retarded.

Retard.

You do realize that a dead body would have a negative WAR, right? Or did you not know that? If Ruth were able to come back and play zero WAR ball for 100 more years, he wouldn't lose value.

I do. Ruth was 155 or so on his career. I think ARod is the active highest about 30 points behind him. So, if I kept rolling Ruth's bones out on the field, he'd be more valuable than ARod for how long?

Raines added 3 per season.
Ichiro added almost 4.

Do you not understand the meaning of "value"?

I do, but I'm thinking you don't.

We're evaluating complete careers, not present day value.

Raines, over his entire career was more valuable than Ichiro has been over his entire career.

Ruth's career was more valuable than Arod's. Even if Ruth comes back and plays zero WAR baseball for 100 years. You don't prorate it per year, especially when you're dealing with 1) an active player who hasn't completed his decline and 2) a special case who dropped into major league baseball at his absolute prime.

To be fair, Raines played during 23 different seasons, but he hardly played 23 seasons. For instance, he only got a cup of coffee in 79 and 80. Ichiro only has about 1200 fewer plate appearances in his MLB career than Raines did, 500 fewer games.

Posted by AlCheez on 8/22/2013 2:56:00 PM (view original):To be fair, Raines played during 23 different seasons, but he hardly played 23 seasons. For instance, he only got a cup of coffee in 79 and 80. Ichiro only has about 1200 fewer plate appearances in his MLB career than Raines did, 500 fewer games.

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/22/2013 2:29:00 PM (view original):LOL. In the all important WAR category, Raines and Lofton were 69 in 23 and 17 seasons, respectively. Ichiro is 59 in 13. I don't even need a calculator to know who's brought more value to their teams.

Yeah, Raines. You can't bring value if you aren't there.

Dumbass.

So I could dig up Babe Ruth, throw his bones on the field for another 5 years and he'd still be more valuable than pretty much anyone for his career? That seems retarded.

Retard.

You do realize that a dead body would have a negative WAR, right? Or did you not know that? If Ruth were able to come back and play zero WAR ball for 100 more years, he wouldn't lose value.

I do. Ruth was 155 or so on his career. I think ARod is the active highest about 30 points behind him. So, if I kept rolling Ruth's bones out on the field, he'd be more valuable than ARod for how long?

Raines added 3 per season.
Ichiro added almost 4.

Do you not understand the meaning of "value"?

I do, but I'm thinking you don't.

We're evaluating complete careers, not present day value.

Raines, over his entire career was more valuable than Ichiro has been over his entire career.

Ruth's career was more valuable than Arod's. Even if Ruth comes back and plays zero WAR baseball for 100 years. You don't prorate it per year, especially when you're dealing with 1) an active player who hasn't completed his decline and 2) a special case who dropped into major league baseball at his absolute prime.

When did you decide what we're evaluating?

Ichiro has been more valuable to his teams. He hasn't been burning up a roster spot, and payroll, for the last 1/3 of his career while barely being above AAA quality.

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/22/2013 3:29:00 PM (view original):Seriously, and this will tell me all I need to know about your baseball knowledge, would you take Raines 23 year career or Ichiro's 13 year career if you were the GM of a baseball team?

Raines. He was better.

I love your attempt at the pro-rated WAR argument.

According to Mike's logic, Mike Trout has been more valuable in his less than 2 years of MLB than Ichiro was for his 13 years of MLB.

Trout : 2 years : 19 WAR : 9.5 WAR per year.
Ichiro :13 years : 55 WAR : 4.23 WAR per year.
Mike Trout for the Hall of Fame.