Height Control ??

VIC

716 posts

VIC, 716 posts

Im hitting the water tomorrow and Im thinking I must at around 8 hrs now? (and wow - Ive actually progressed when I think back to just trying to deal with the board and foil in the water!!).

Im able to get good runs in both directions but my height varies from brief touch downs to the heights of breaching . As Ive read and learnt - looking at the water in front of the board is like trying to drive on a road full of potholes and dodge them whilst looking immediately over the bonet - you'll hit every one.

Looking to the horizon kind of helps but then with gusts of wind and resultant speed (Im trying to control that cuz it just kind of gets a bit scary!!) the amount of lift from the foil changes and then everything changes again !!

Are there any hot tips I should take with me tomorrow to get better height control ??

Edit - Im running a full length mast and no Im not about to buy another!!

NSW

1114 posts

NSW, 1114 posts

4 May 2018 7:53PM

You will receive many different bits of advice and all should be valuable. I am a slow learner and found a couple of things worked for me.1. Ensuring the trim of the wings and a small adjustment of the rear wing made a huge difference. 2. Above made it easier to find equal foot balance and controlThere's more but these 2 points were key

QLD

306 posts

QLD, 306 posts

4 May 2018 8:14PM

I find it easier if the foil is trimmed for more front foot pressure. It is much quicker to increase or decrease pressure on the front foot to control height. If the foil is neutrally trimmed you need to weight transfer between the front and rear foot, takes more time so a bigger chance of breaching or touching.

WA

242 posts

WA, 242 posts

4 May 2018 7:14PM

I found looking at the water 20-30 feet in front of me helped a lot. Also, standing tall but with slightly bent and relaxed knees. Once you're up and feeling pretty good about things, DON'T MOVE TOO MUCH. Any changes you need to make should be small and subtle - unless you hear the gurgle. You want to aim for half mast height if you can. Over time you will know what the correct cruising height feels like. Until then, err on the side of lower rather than higher and keep challenging yourself to doing longer and longer runs until you are rarely ventilating or touching down. After a while, you'll just be doing it automatically.

QLD, 1474 posts

52 posts

52 posts

4 May 2018 8:01PM

In the long run, a neutrally balanced foil is the best. Don't "unbalance" your foil to front weight bias just to get past this part of the learning curve. As above, slightly bent knees and small weight shifts. But the truth is just water time. You WILL get to the point where riding a foil in a straight line is as comfortable as a twintip. One day, pitch control will just click and you will wonder why it seemed so hard.

382 posts

382 posts

4 May 2018 8:10PM

I have only ridden a neutral balanced foil so can't compare with methods of needing more front foot pressure.

However, I did notice that flying overpowered made it more difficult. If you fly overpowered, you instinctively fly the kite high to stop it generating too much power. When the kite was high like this, I noticed it was more difficult to shift my weight in small changes as I felt I was trying to overcome inertia in the kite. Being properly powered so I could fly the kite lower made it easier as I wasn't fighting the kite.

Any chance you were just more powered than you should be? Note overpowered for foiling does not feel the same as overpowered for a twin tip / surfboard so be careful not to use the same scale of pull in the harness

4337 posts

4337 posts

5 May 2018 4:56AM

Good fast, try not to increase height by shifting your weight. Do it with speed. Ie more speed = more lift = up you go. Then gradually lean on the front foot to reduce height.

Try to relax. I found myself trying to muscle the foil being all tensed up and stiff. You cant muscle the foil in the early stages. Think relaxation and flow. That's how you will conquer the foil. Sorta like when you are wave riding a leisurely wave and you are just flowing carving with the wave. Foiling is sorta like that. Flowing in a 3d space.

VIC

716 posts

VIC, 716 posts

5 May 2018 9:28AM

Thanks for all of the replies - a few things stood out to me:Dont muscle the foil around - I have found that doesnt work well!! Toppleover - good luck if you get out but my advice in the early bit is to try to stop the foil flying - ie front foot pressure and let the foil lift you rather than transferring weight to the back foot, touch downs from too much pressure dont hurt !And the other bit which is where Im thniking my problem is coming from is kite control - I typically fly my kite quite low and its damn hard to dump power when it is low. Today Ill work on flying the kite higher in the window !!

WA

242 posts

WA, 242 posts

5 May 2018 10:51AM

Kite control (trim) will have a huge impact on foiling success. Many people are under the impression that sheeting in equals more power and sheeting out equals less power. In simple terms that may be true but there's much more to it than that. Yes, jamming the bar down as far as it will travel will feel like there's more power in the kite. That's because it's pulling the kite back into the power zone of the wind window. Having the kite sitting that deep in the window rarely translates into efficiency on the foil. In fact, quite the opposite. The kite is wanting to pull you and the foil sideways. Because the foil is so efficient, you'll still travel forward, but you may struggle to actually get onto the foil even when fully powered. By sheeting out and allowing the kite to fly ahead of you and closer to the edge of the window, you'll suddenly feel as though a switch has been flicked and you're flying with ease and your upwind angles have improved dramatically. 90% of the time when I'm kiting, my control bar is a 1/3 to half way along it's travel parameters. I'll certainly sometimes jam the bar down when sining the kite side to side when water starting, but once I'm up on the board and ready to start forward travel, the bar will be pushed out to the point just before the kite starts to luff.

I know that this will be obvious stuff to most of you, but I'm constantly amazed by the amount of riders who are bogging along like windsurfers in a 15kt breeze with their bars jammed down as low as they can go.

VIC

716 posts

VIC, 716 posts

QLD

1474 posts

QLD, 1474 posts

5 May 2018 7:05PM

Bit overpower today (gusty 15-25 on a 8m Drifter). First time on a long mast, hated the first hour - even just positioning the board in the water was so much harder than with the half mast. Thank God with some perseverance something clicked & I had my best session & longest runs on the foil to date.

VIC

716 posts

VIC, 716 posts

5 May 2018 8:01PM

Toppleover - this leaning bit is HARD !! I was the same wind wise - I pumped up a Bandit 8m and could get going with my SB and boost - then the wind dropped off so grabbed the foil - Im still having height control issues!! In both directions I can get decent runs on the foil but Im still up and down ?? My speed does change but I cant see that Im moving weight or feet in anyway ?? And I get gusts but no direct relationship between gust and height !! And sometimes the foil just moves up and down - again I dont think I change anything ?? Big Sigh - Im expecting the feedback will just be 'time on the water'!!

QLD

1474 posts

QLD, 1474 posts

5 May 2018 8:12PM

Select to expand quote

Lambie said..Toppleover - this leaning bit is HARD !! I was the same wind wise - I pumped up a Bandit 8m and could get going with my SB and boost - then the wind dropped off so grabbed the foil - Im still having height control issues!! In both directions I can get decent runs on the foil but Im still up and down ?? My speed does change but I cant see that Im moving weight or feet in anyway ?? And I get gusts but no direct relationship between gust and height !! And sometimes the foil just moves up and down - again I dont think I change anything ?? Big Sigh - Im expecting the feedback will just be 'time on the water'!!

After a 3 hour sesh, I'm absolutely knackered - I really do think getting the height control is just time on the water mate. Don't think being overpowered helps much either.

QLD

3693 posts

QLD, 3693 posts

5 May 2018 8:36PM

Shift your weight by side lunges.Keep your knees pliable but firm.Aim to just skim the water with the board, cos that's easier to "feel" than trying to ride half the mast height etc. More mast out of the water, less feel from the foil...

NSW

1114 posts

NSW, 1114 posts

5 May 2018 9:26PM

Agree with all suggestions as above and suffered similar experiences with balance. But as I have posted several times a slight adjustment of the rear wing can make a significant difference. I am a happy foiler these days. Note: a few brands now provide rear wing adjustment options.

4337 posts

4337 posts

15-25 is too powered for an 8m. You should have been on a 6m. next time do a size down.

Don't shift your weight by side lunges. That is essentially trying to "muscle" the foil. It will go terribly wrong for you.Concentrale on relaxing and small incremental movement for now.

If the foil goes up and down by its self theres 2 possibilities. 1) you are shifting your weight and you dont realise it. You have to try and train out years of sloppy weight shifting riding surface boards. On the foil you have to have perfect weight distribution.2) There is a change of current in the water. Typically driven by the swell.

166 posts

166 posts

6 May 2018 4:32AM

I'm just learning as well and struggling with this as I am only running a 60cm mast because the places I kite are quite shallow. I had good success in my last session by hanging off the harness more with less weight on my legs. I've never heard anyone recommending this but it is a technique that only works if your power is coming from a kite or sail. Slightly bent and relaxed knees are important too. Ultimately it is just practise and experimentation until you find out what works for you. There seem to be multiple different riding styles. Some really good guys have a very wide stance while others are quite narrow.

VIC

2640 posts

VIC, 2640 posts

6 May 2018 7:45AM

Lambie, it will always be TOW.and it is that time on water that will get you the muscle memory that will take over from the inefficiency of trying to think your way through every twitch and wobble.And also gets you past the nervous energy stage where every movement is done in a tense body state which is both energy sapping and jerky.

QLD

1474 posts

QLD, 1474 posts

6 May 2018 9:04AM

Select to expand quote

RAL INN said..Lambie, it will always be TOW.and it is that time on water that will get you the muscle memory that will take over from the inefficiency of trying to think your way through every twitch and wobble.And also gets you past the nervous energy stage where every movement is done in a tense body state which is both energy sapping and jerky.

Totally agree with Ral, yesterday once I was too tired to fight the foil (about 1hr) - I had more fun & was foiling much better. But still a total foil kook

VIC

2640 posts

VIC, 2640 posts

6 May 2018 9:47AM

I read many posts that talk of this much or that much hours of practice.but much of those estimates are based on Session times that will vary with what we as individuals describe as a session.for foiling beginners you need to only count the time from diving the kite and up on board till next crash or stop then add these together to get the hours you have actually spent trying to foil.if we do this then you will see that for actual time trying your progress is probably quite fine, and the stages and hurdles not so much to panic about.then factor in if you can get those magical 3 day in row of foiling times where real progress happens versus the relearning after breaks time.

QLD

3693 posts

QLD, 3693 posts

Plummet said..15-25 is too powered for an 8m. You should have been on a 6m. next time do a size down.

Don't shift your weight by side lunges. That is essentially trying to "muscle" the foil. It will go terribly wrong for you.Concentrale on relaxing and small incremental movement for now.

If the foil goes up and down by its self theres 2 possibilities. 1) you are shifting your weight and you dont realise it. You have to try and train out years of sloppy weight shifting riding surface boards. On the foil you have to have perfect weight distribution.2) There is a change of current in the water. Typically driven by the swell.

Do stop saying one kite size for this much wind is correct for anyone except yourself. Depending on the foil I was on and water conditions, a 6m kite could be anything from horrendously overpowered to annoyingly underpowered.

The point with side lunges is to keep your torso upright and centered over your board, and use your relaxed but controlled bent knees to fine tune the balance and absorb the shifts in the board's trim. It's a cue, not the end goal.

If you're bending at the waist or thinking you're pushing on your front foot, you're going to be easily knocked off balance and unable to adapt to non-trivial changes in trim.

Proper balance means you don't have to futz with crutches like moving straps, standing in weird places, or fiddling with rear wing setup.

NSW

1114 posts

NSW, 1114 posts

Plummet said..15-25 is too powered for an 8m. You should have been on a 6m. next time do a size down.

Don't shift your weight by side lunges. That is essentially trying to "muscle" the foil. It will go terribly wrong for you.Concentrale on relaxing and small incremental movement for now.

If the foil goes up and down by its self theres 2 possibilities. 1) you are shifting your weight and you dont realise it. You have to try and train out years of sloppy weight shifting riding surface boards. On the foil you have to have perfect weight distribution.2) There is a change of current in the water. Typically driven by the swell.

Do stop saying one kite size for this much wind is correct for anyone except yourself. Depending on the foil I was on and water conditions, a 6m kite could be anything from horrendously overpowered to annoyingly underpowered.

The point with side lunges is to keep your torso upright and centered over your board, and use your relaxed but controlled bent knees to fine tune the balance and absorb the shifts in the board's trim. It's a cue, not the end goal.

If you're bending at the waist or thinking you're pushing on your front foot, you're going to be easily knocked off balance and unable to adapt to non-trivial changes in trim.

Proper balance means you don't have to futz with crutches like moving straps, standing in weird places, or fiddling with rear wing setup.

Proper balance needs no muscling.

Based on my 1 season experience I agree about the kite selection as too many variables but suggestion of a kite size may help some for a starting point.Comment on fiddling with rear wing doing so helped me significantly with balance and wing ventilation.Race kiters tune wings to a finite degree.In the end with continued experience we all figure out what works.

QLD

1474 posts

QLD, 1474 posts

Plummet said..15-25 is too powered for an 8m. You should have been on a 6m. next time do a size down.

Don't shift your weight by side lunges. That is essentially trying to "muscle" the foil. It will go terribly wrong for you.Concentrale on relaxing and small incremental movement for now.

If the foil goes up and down by its self theres 2 possibilities. 1) you are shifting your weight and you dont realise it. You have to try and train out years of sloppy weight shifting riding surface boards. On the foil you have to have perfect weight distribution.2) There is a change of current in the water. Typically driven by the swell.

I knew I was going to be overpowered but the 8m Drifter is the only kite I have atm mate. I'm looking for a 5 or 6m, if anyone wants to sell