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8.5 Days in India - Insane?

I have until tomorrow to book two AA FF business tickets for a mid-October journey/birthday celebration that would give us just 8 1/2 days on the ground in India (11 days total travel). We're both very eager to go (okay, I'm obsessed) but, sadly, we cannot take six weeks off like some of you. And although Mr. Crosscheck and I both travel often on shorter business trips to distant places, we fear that eight days won't cut it for the sub-continent.

We would fly in and out of Delhi limit our journey to three destinations:

I don't think it's insane at all, but I do think it will need careful planning.

A couple of questions.

Why, when you only have 8.5 days there and part of that will be travelling, are you spending three in a "cool rural retreat"? I would use those days to make your overall trip a little more relaxed and go to the retreat somewhere closer to home later on.

Secondly, is there a specific reason for Varanasi? If so, keep it in. If not, consider somewhere closer to Delhi like Jaipur.

Consider an extra day in Delhi on arrival to allow for jetlag. Plan nothing for that day, just relax and wander around near the hotel if you feel energetic, or veg out in the room or the bar if you don't. If you try to be up and active when your bodyclock is still in the USA (I'm presuming that from AA) you will feel exhausted for days.

For that reason I suggest choosing a hotel in the Karol Bagh market district for your first two nights. There will be lots of interesting things right outside the door.

I would do it. In some ways a short trip is a nice intro to India. You're moving quickly, but won't be there so long that it will become exhausting. Of course, keep in mind that I've gone to Japan on three or four day trips when an opportunity jumped at me!

Unless you plan to go to Sarnath, I agree that 3 nights in Varanasi is too much for this short trip. The first time I went to Varanasi, we spent just two nights, and it was still worth the trip. If I recall, the flights all arrive mid-day, so with two nights you get a half day, one full day, and then another half day on day three.
(You can read my report at http://www.fodors.com/community/asia/lcuys-second-india-trip---dec-2005.cfm)

I'd also like two nights for Agra, but you can still see enough with only one night. Take the early morning tourist train from Delhi. You'll arrive about 9am and have the rest of the day. I'd arrange a driver in advance to pick you up from the train, so you don't waste time negotiating once there.

You could visit the Taj late that same afternoon or at sunrise the next morning. You'll also have enough time to visit Itmad-Ud-Daulah's Tomb (the Baby Taj), the Fort, and maybe even the gardens across the river from the Taj. Keep in mind that the Taj Mahal is closed on Fridays.

Thanks, everyone. I will be hitting all of you up about the specific itinerary once we decide what to do about the tickets.

Alan, here are the answers to your questions:

- Jet lag? Yes, we are traveling from the west coast of the U.S, but I'm still not sure we want to spend two days in Delhi. Thanks for the tip about hotel locale.

- Why Varanasi? Because it's quintessential India, plus we have an interest in the music there. Bob, interesting to note that you think two days is plenty (gleaned that from your trip report). A shorter stay there would free us up for more time elsewhere. Or maybe we should save it for the next trip.

- How are we traveling? Flying to Varanasi, train to Agra, for the rest probably a private driver.

- Why a "retreat"? We tend to prefer rural Asia over giant cities - would hike to villages and get a little off the beaten track. Thinking of several spots in Rajasthan, but tops on my list is Ahiya Fort in Maheshwar near Indore, which might not work because it requires an additional internal flight.

- Delhi: Thinking of avoiding Delhi entirely...just spending one night then going to the Oberoi at the Taj to relax.

I still think you need at least 24 hours in Delhi to relax, so consider two nights. Why do I think that? The voice of experience; Australia is a long way from anywhere: http://my.flightmemory.com/AlanS

However, I have designed this as something for you to work with based on one night there. The distance from Agra to Varanasi may look short, at about 600km, but Indian times on routes like that are loooong (see my blog on Indian Roads). You would be really struggling to drive that comfortably in a day. So I suggest a car for Delhi-Jaipur-Agra but the train for Agra (Agra Fort Station) to Varanasi and the plane to return to Delhi, although a train may do for that.

The flights will be quite long it will take days to get over jet lag usually expensive visas involved lots can go wrong there on a crammed itinerary.October not the best month particularly in the south.So I am firmly in in the wait
till you have more time camp.I might consider Bali Hyatt Sanur beach www.komaneka.com Monkey Forest same Hindu vibe you are looking for with a more seamless experience.

I am going to differ from all of the above comments. You like rural, and so do we so I've been looking into such places. I think you can acheive your goal of seeing some of the true India and having some relaxation all at the same time. Do so by skipping ALL of the usual places most people visit in India (or Rajasthan anyway). Read this article that recommends that first time visitors to India do not do the usual, and get some ideas for some spectacular heritage places you could spend your time.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/asia/india/8811180/India-the-fairytale-charms-of-authentic-Rajasthan.html

Book 3 of them (or similar places) and take life easy in your 8.5 days.

And, if you want to do some more outdoorsy things, take a look at this place that is only 70k from Agra. It sounds quite interesting and could probably fit nicely into an itinerary. http://www.chambalsafari.com/activites.html

Thanks - I actually like your itinerary, Alan, but Mr. C is now saying that we should wait until we have more time. We know about Australian distances/jet lag...Have been there three times and it's one of my favorite places. Quo - I spent a month in Bali in the '80's and have been reluctant to go back because it was truly paradise then and seems so resorty now. But we will return at some point with our sons and combine the orangutans in Borneo.

To complicate this dilemma, we just found tickets to India for longer in mid-September (11 days), but I'm concerned about the monsoon. It seems as if India is chaotic enough without having to worry about floods and landslides.

julies,
I think we were posting at once. We are considering out-of-the-box places, including a short tribal tour led by Indian art expert Louise Nicholson (http://www.louisesindia.com/) but we're reluctant to give up Agra and Varanasi. I do think others have a good point about jet lag/relaxing. No matter where you go, it takes a while to get into the rhythm of the place, and it seems that India works its magic slowly.

crosscheck - we were in India Sept 14-Oct 10 and did not experience rain once. I would jump at the chance to travel, even if limited in time. Visit Varanasi at the end of the trip when the monsoon waters may have subsided a bit. The water levels at the ghats (steps) will lower.

I agree with the prior posters about limiting Varanasi to 2 days. Just remember that it takes time to get to and from places and that there can be delays.

I like Tra_Eller's itinerary, but think you should include another day in Delhi if you have additional time. We were greatly surprised at how much we enjoyed our time there and there is much to see between New Delhi and Old Delhi. I suggest you hire a driver as things are greatly spread out in Delhi.

I also suggest you make stops at the Monkey Temple and Stepping Wells between Jaipur and Agra. We liked those stops even more than Fatehpur Sikri as they were so different from other sites that you will see. The drive between these cities also affords you with an opportunity to see village life along the way.

We rated Jaipur very highly on our list of cities and we enjoyed just strolling through the streets and watching the people in addition to seeing the sites. When it got unbearably hot, we stopped in for a reprieve at the theatre to see a Bollywood movie which was great fun, especially to my husband who had not seen one before. While we could not understand everything, the storylines of these movies are easy to follow and quite entertaining.

As for jet lag - be sure to sleep on the plane and push yourself forward. The jet lag on the return flight is usually much worse.

In Agra......do visit Fatehpur Sikri too......Mughal Emperor Akbar's capital for a while............about 40 kms away from Agra. It is really a splendid collection of buildings about open-spaces, if you are interested in Architecture.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatehpur_Sikri

Ofcourse Taj Mahal is peerless.

Talking about a collection of buildings, let me also mention the Capitol Complex of Chandigarh, designed and conceived by the great French/ Swiss architect Le Corbusier.

I set my watch to destination time as soon as I have settled in my plane seat. From that moment on I think in that time. For example, if it's 1pm when I leave LA for Hong Kong and it's 5am in Hong Kong, then my watch is set to 5am and the first meal served on the flight is breakfast in my mind regardless of what it is called by the flight stewards. I still try to get some sleep during the trip, but I am unconcerned if I don't get a lot of sleep because I never plan any activities for my first 24 hours. That lets me relax and get adjusted to local time on arrival.

I make sure I wake before local breakfast time on my first morning in the hotel and from then on any jetlag is gone.

Thanks, all. I'm glad everyone is still looking out for me. I managed to extend the hold on all the various flights and I'm going to call a few Indian friends/experts today to get their opinions. As of yesterday, we were thinking of Bhutan instead (still flying through Delhi) because all of the itineraries there seem to be just a week. But India keeps calling to me.

djun, Mr. C is reluctant about September, not just because of the rain, but because of the heat. I vividly remember something about a "three-shirt day" in your trip report.

Blwe, yes, the Taj Mahal is still on our list. Will be consulting all of you about specific itineraries once we decide whether to go. As of today, I'm thinking of skipping Varanasi and just doing Agra-Jaipur-Ahilya Fort - that would be just two domestic flights.

Trav, Wish I could say that I follow your jet lag advice - I almost never make it to the hotel breakfast in Europe.

If you are thinking about Bhutan, why not consider Sikkim? Sikkim, an independent kingdom until 1975, is now a part of India. Less touristed than Bhutan, with dramatic Himalayan scenery, dotted with Tibetan Buddhist monestaries, it is one of the most fascinating places we've visited. A week in Sikkim would be perfect.

crosscheck - you are right about Sept being brutal! My husband and I swear to one another that we will not travel to Asia again in the heat. We did Vietnam in May. Not a pretty site looking at my husband in his sweat soaked shirts.

September in India will be generally rainy........Delhi and plains of north India are exceptions. These areas will be rather humid and sweaty. It will be raining in the hills mostly.

@ Kathie.....Sikkim is really wonderful, particularly North Sikkim.......Yumthang, the valley of flowers( during May) on the Chinese border is simply wonderful. In September, it will be rainy and slushy though.

@Dgunbug, Thank you for your suggestion of the Monkey Temple (Galta?) and the Stepping Wells. I have these on "the plan" so glad to hear they are worth it! (Step Wells between Jaipur and Karauli . it will be my first ever time in the area--first time in Jaipur!!!

Thanks for your concern, Cali. This is turning into a real nailbiter. We have until January 7th at midnight to book, and are still on the fence. Spoke to several people last night at an event where everyone but us seemed to have visited India. This opened a whole Pandora's box. Their advice:

- 8.5 days IS too short...but better than nothing
- 8.5 days is fine...but go to the South instead
- Do Bhutan with a Taj Mahal add-on
- Don't miss Calcutta
- Wait until you can go for a month
- Wait for the Jaipur Literary Festival
- Wait for an Emirates sale

Clearly, if we go, we will have to return to India. But we cannot do that until we get the first trip out of the way. We are going to get one more opinion today from the expert who would book our driver, etc., and will report back.

Kathie, Thanks for the link - I read your whole inspirational trip report...instead of getting my work done. Sikkim sounds awesome and is now officially on the bucket list, but Blwetorch seems to be correct about iffy weather.

dhunbug, We go to Mexico every winter (when it is not even that hot) with two other families, and the "archivist" of the group always has to photoshop out Mr. Crosscheck's sweat. So I shutter to think about how he will look in India. He will have to spend the whole time in air-conditioned theaters screening Bollywood films while I hit the bazaars.

Hi atravelynn, Great to see you here on the Asia board. You must have read my mind about Plan B: We are considering a gorilla trip in Sept if India doesn't work out.

Calcutta is again a very intense city. It can take from 1 day to a full month to see, depending upon, how you look at it. The Museum, the largest in India is worth seeing. A cruise on the Ganges will be a real treat. If you can undertake the boat trip to the Sunderbans( where the rivers meet the Bay of Bengal), it will be really special....with a chance to see the elusive Royal Bengal tiger. Calcutta was the capital of British India till 1911......and was known at that time as the 2nd most important city of Britain after London. Away from Calcutta ( now Kolkata, the local Bengali nomenclature) you will also like the queen of the Himalaya, Darjeeling. Darjeeling besides being famous for the exquisite tea is also well-known for the view of the great mountain range Kangchenjungha( the 3rd highest peak in the world, after Everest and K2). Darjeeling is just an over-night train journey from Kolkata. Kolkata was famous as the City of Palaces............we wondered why?!...............later on, as we grew up, our trained architect's eye learned to look beyond the temporary stalls on the side-walks, beyond the creepers on the parapet walls.......and there we discovered the 'palaces' of the by-gone days. Don't let Kolkata grow upon you...otherwise, you'll yearn to keep returning, every few years.

It will also be easier to touch Bhutan...the border town is Phuntsoling...from Kolkata( Calcutta), via Dajeeling. But again, in September, the Himalayan region( including Bhutan) will be rainy...and the hill-stations feel rather melancholic during rainy seasons.

If you decide to go, i'd go with Trav_eller's itin, and agree if poss, have more thab a hectic one day in New Delhi . Sounds like you view this as a basic, first time trip.

For the quieter part of the trip, plan on spending the evenings AT the hotel, and pick decent ones. They do NOT have to be 5 star!!!! At the end of busy days of sight seeing/exploring, having a nice little refuge place and hotel with restaurant lets you relax and digest physically and mentally at the end of the day (and get ready for the next) I almost never eat dinner AT hotel restaurants...except in India, where the feet-up at end of day and NOT having to go out again were welcome. Oh yes....massages too are cheap and a nice way to relax,

LATER when you are able to take a bit longer time, or even if not,you can do the slower paced trip (and the South is perfect for that).

"or you can take a jeep. I've heard too much about cruelty t the elephants i guess."

Mine seemed well-looked after and wasn't mistreated by the mahout. Of course, if no-one rides the elephants there would be no reason to look after them at all. Then you would only be able to encounter them in zoos.

It's whirlwind, but it enables you to see a lot. I think it's doable if you can get the right transportation connections. And a full day in Varanasi will give you a great taste of it. You could probably do a sunrise boat trip on morning 9 before flying back to Delhi.
If you're really not interested in Delhi, you could perhaps get an afternoon train to Jaipur on day 2, giving you more time elsewhere.

Thanks for the continued interest in our trip. I promise to include all this decision drama in the report...if we go. We now have until tomorrow at midnight Delhi time (whenever that is) to get the tickets. If we do go, I won't bug all of you about the itinerary until several months from now, in case we can add some extra days. Jaipur is sounding a little too touristy for us, although we do have some interesting people we could meet there. If possible we'd like to go to just three locations: Agra, Varanasi and Ahilya Fort (near Indore, with 3-4 days there). Any ideas about how we could work that out?

Actually, I know nothing at all about this agency (I've just been using their site for research), but they have some pretty nice looking options on the site like mini itineraries you can put together, and they might be able to help you out.

In case you need to buy a train ticket, you can do that online on www.irctc.co.in
'Tatkal' (urgent) tickets are also available 24 hrs. prior to train departure, and you do not need to take a hard copy with you, a soft copy on mobile or laptop will do.

Excellent. I thought for a moment you'd pike out. Now we'll get serious. First thing: got to www.jetairways.com, click on 'About Us' and go to 'Our Network', top of the list. Go to 'View out route map'. That'll show you flights. Peruse.

You can do this the easy way or the hard way. Me, I'd go for the easy way. Agra is your madness, of course. There ain't no flights so, whichever way you do it, you're up for at least ten hours [2 X 5 hours] driving. I'd be wary of overnight trains - you'll probably have an adventure but you won't get any sleep, which will screw you up the next day.

And join Jet Privelege.

Getting IN to Agra is your problem. Either fly to Kajuraho and go overland from there OR fly back to Delhi and drive down.

To get out of Agra, probably the easiest way is to drive to Jaipur and fly to Indore from there. Otherwise it's back to Delhi... nahhh. A night here

At Ahilya, book either of the two best rooms. If you click on 'rooms' the first picture that comes up is the Dogster suite - your room. Don't take the others unless you want a view of the vegetable garden. Or a tent. Not luxe but fabulous position [second picture]. Enquire whether the 'maharaja' will be in residence. If he ain't the service is slack. I'll advise more later.

I love the way you're all invested in my ridiculously brief journey. At this rate, we'll have 1000 posts by October...and then it will all be over in a flash.

Now that I have the tickets, I vowed I would take a break from agonizing about the specific destinations. But I couldn't resist taking a look at everyone's cool links, especially "my" suite at Ahilya. (The tent looks excellent as well - which has more light?)

Perused the Jet site. What a fantastic name for an airline. Says it all. Can Kingfisher, the one named after the beer, be trusted as well? Assuming not, and we stick to Jet, Indore-Varanasi-Agra might be a better order, giving us a full day at Agra on the final day before a midnight flight.

Dogster, Are Ahilya and Varanasi too similar as two of our three destinations...both spiritual rivers with ghats, aartis, boat rides, etc.? If the maharaja is not in town (how could he NOT be for our visit?), should we omit Ahilya and just do Varanasi, Agra and a splurge at Amanbagh? Though not a restored fort, it does offer rural splendor, hiking, a village experience and nice Amex Platinum benefits.

julies, my trip was too complex for your link - Is there a site with more variables, like which planes get delayed and which trains have rats? Or, better yet, a call center.

Now, given that ALL your itineraries thus far are idiotic, I suggest you look at a map, pick an area and stay there. As you insist on going to Agra - start with that, like everybody else. Then go left - or right. There are rural areas, villages and outdoors anywhere there isn't a city. As you've never been to India, everywhere is interesting.

'Is there a site with more variables, like which planes get delayed and which trains have rats? Or, better yet, a call center...

No.

ALL the airlines can be trusted. They are not going to fall from the sky. I'm just trying to make it easy for you. Every time I do, you make it complicated again.

Amanbagh is $800 - $1000 a night. Go there. If you are happy to spend that much money then you have enough cash to pay somebody to organise this whole trip for you. I suggest you get a travel agent, give them your dates and let them sort it out.

I told you I needed a break from thinking about this! I always start out all over the place, but usually end up doing a less idiotic slow travel thing. The Amex price for Amans wasn't too much different from Ahilya (plus no additional airfare), so that's how I got that idea. As of now, will continue with Idiotic Plan A (Var-Agra-Ahilya).

At least this is happening - your help, and everyone else's, is much appreciated. Why drive a travel agent crazy when I can torture all of you? To be continued in several months when it's a more appropriate time to book.

Crosscheck, big congrats on the booking. You will not regreat it, and lthis will whet your appetite for future trips.

"As you've never been to India, everywhere is interesting. " Dogster said it much more politely (surprise) than do I, when thinking of those whose aim is to find "the true India" or "the real India."

The challenge is turning off the "real India" and getting a brief respite from it, once there!

In answer to your question about why you should drive a travel agent crazy
it saves headaches, you'll have source of immediate answers to many questions both before and during the trip; you'll have a 24 hour ph number to call should there be any problems; you'll have a back up advocate should you need one; you'll have drivers who will be protective of your health and safety, etc.

Of course, the plusses are valid only if you have a good , reputable, India-based contact/ agent, but there is no shortage of those listed on this site.)

Dogster, thanks (I think) for the warning about the overnight trains. I've got one booked (Ludhiana to Jaipur) for a couple weeks from now. If i get no sleep, or other probs (too much "real India" haha) you can say, "I TOLD you so!"

So...the insanity continues. We had just figured out a workable itinerary (I will spare you), when I found out on flyertalk that, starting in Feb, AA will suspend the nonstop ORD-DEL flight. AA did not let us know, but when we checked our account, the trip status showed "canceled." They are now trying to find us flights on an AA partner, but it's looking doubtful that this will work out. Might have to take a different birthday trip and wait until we have enough time to do India right.

Well, the super efficient Kathie beat me to it. I was going to suggest you read my trip report for more info about Louise, who gets my highest recommendation. She has planned individualized trips for a least a dozen people we know. One couple has just gone on the 4th trip that she planned. Several other friends have gone on her group art and cultural tours, and she also leads trips for museums. We are not "tour people" but after she planned such a stellar trip for us, it is my dream to go on one of her remote tribal tours. She is a true India specialist, knows all the top guides and will gear your trip to your area of interest.

We did not compare costs with other outfitters because a) we knew we wanted to go with Louise and b) our first quote was extremely reasonable because we were going off season and saved as much as 50% on some of the hotels. We also kept costs down by mixing luxury accommodations with inexpensive guest houses.

Since this thread was pulled up, I wanted it to go on record that we did not go to India for just 8.5 days. After AA canceled the flight I put on hold, we managed to get different flights that allowed up to go for 11 days - much better.