It might be a good idea to mention Puppy Linux on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wubi_(Ubuntu) as a similar project. I think Puppy linux is an excellent alternative to wubi. There are a lot of people who want to get handson experience on linux without repartitioning their harddrive.

looks like something which could help many, feel free to add a link from the Wubi Wikipedia page to the Puppy Linux one.

The laptop has a built in SD card reader but I do not have access to it with puppy linux. Every thing else is working pretty well and I think that this little Puppy is the way to go for a laptop but I would like to be able to use the sd card reader. Please help me............

I'd like to see an easier, more noob friendly way to install *nix packages. I've been a fairly self sufficient windows user most of the last ten years. I've tried *nix several times but to this day tend to have problems getting/installing programs.

I understand there are different types of archives and compression which make this task difficult but, if it's possible, could some sort of universal package extractor/installer be created for puppy(does one already exist?)

I really dig puppy over the other distros I've tried and brag about it everywhere but in the end still end up back on winblows for mediocre tasks because its easy to aquire/install the apps I need for that particular task.

Ok. First off I like Puppy, but I have had some issues.
1. Loading software packages rarely works for me. Of course this could be my ignorance, but there it is.
By comparison, loading packages into Ubuntu or Mint is rather straigtforward and logical. Uninstalling is often difficult also, so I usually don't even try.
2. Typing into a Forum Window can easily cause a net crash for me if I make a mistake and press the wrong key (usually delete, I think). So, as now, I am currently typing this in Geany and copy and pasting into the Puppy Forum window.
3.Flash and Java are problematic for me. I haven't been able to install/ upgrade the software. I make music on my Windows based DAW and correspond with others and listen to music online in different formats. Some formats do not work well with Puppy out of the box and installing the proper software hasn't usually worked. Sound playback formats are not always available. Adding the proper codecs is not easy.
4. Printing is not as refined as it is in Windows, and I realize that is because the drivers are not optimized for Linux (no industry lead drivers). I.e. there are no indicators for when ink is low nor is there means to control the type of print quality to use (draft or fine). When I try to recommend Puppy to others, printing control and photo control are two of the highest priorities. This is a general Linux problem.
5. I have difficulty if I need to access the terminal. I bought an Ubuntu manual to try to become familiar with the terminal and the corresponding language, but alas it is totally illogical to me. It reminds me of my old trials with assembly language. A language for mathematicians and engineers.

So much for the negatives. I still like Puppy. It is fast, safe and one of the easiest to use out of the box. Internet setup is straightforward once to you get the hang of Puppy. All in all its a good op system. Thanks guys.

I bought an Ubuntu manual to try to become familiar with the terminal and the corresponding language, but alas it is totally illogical to me. It reminds me of my old trials with assembly language. A language for mathematicians and engineers.

Though some might disagree (now that they have mastered shell scripting to some degree or other) I have to say that shell script is plagued with some odd syntax, making it at times extremely cryptic and almost cantankerous. Even competent shell script programmers sometimes struggle to get it to do exactly what they intend.

Funnily enough, many who have taken the time to learn shell, still think of C as cryptic or impossibly technical. However, I think, that C (albeit a compiling language) offers a much more consistent and traditional programming approach in comparison to, for example, the bash shell. Yes, pointers take a bit getting used to (and pointers to pointers and so on) but once the concept is mastered it provides an immensely powerful technique and very efficient and fast code. I actually love programming when pointers are involved - it is so simple.

I do think it is a pity that traditional shell scripting is so embedded in Linux/Unix system management/operation, because I'm sure some cleaner shell script language would be a joy to use comparitively (e.g. Lua or Python in style - but still small in size) and increase the number of shell level system developers. Perl, alas, is full of weirdness and black magic too..._________________Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit.Last edited by mcewanw on Fri 19 Jun 2009, 03:31; edited 1 time in total

I bought an Ubuntu manual to try to become familiar with the terminal and the corresponding language, but alas it is totally illogical to me. It reminds me of my old trials with assembly language. A language for mathematicians and engineers.

Though some might disagree (now that they have mastered shell scripting to some degree or other) I have to say that shell script is plagued with some odd syntax, making it at times extremely cryptic and almost cantankerous. Even competent shell script programmers sometimes struggle to get it to do exactly what they intend.

Funnily enough, many who have taken the time to learn shell, still think of C as cryptic or impossibly technical. However, I think, that C (albeit a compiling language) offers a much more consistent and traditional programming approach in comparison to, for example, the bash shell. Yes, pointers take a bit getting used to (and pointers to pointers and so on) but once the concept is mastered it provides an immensely powerful technique and very efficient and fast code. I actually love programming when pointers are involved - it is so simple.

I do think it is a pity that traditional shell scripting is so embedded in Linux/Unix system management/operation, because I'm sure some cleaner shell script language would be a joy to use comparitively (e.g. Lua or Python in style - but still small in size) and increase the number of shell level system developers. Perl, alas, is full of weirdness and black magic too...

Python integration is linux is very good, I do not see why someone would have to limit himself on using C or Bash.

The options are so many.

Another language that plays very well with linux and is a breeze to learn is FreePascal.

I have tried several puppy distros and think they are great especially that they can be run and contained on a usb. However I am not very familiar with linux. My main use for it is to use as a back up OS from which I can restore my PC and web browsing. I think it would be a great addition to puppy if it had support for the touch pad, an option for dbl click to open (really having trouble getting use to single), a more noob friendly file manager(dbl pained with an easy way to move files like a move option on right click), and partionining and imageing software. I know they are availible for linux but I really have trouble installing them. It is great that puppy allows the use of files from many distros, but geting them installed can be very difficult for noobs who are not familiar with linux.

I have used Ubuntu and Mint on my desktop machines, as well as OpenBSD for a WebCache Proxy Server for my home network.

What I like; The ease of installation to a small usb flash drive, and the fact Puppy caches writes to extend the life of the memory - GREAT JOB!

I like how it is light-weight and has all of the nice icons and menu items that make things so easy to find and do, such as networking.

I know this is a smaller community than Ubuntu, and it doesn't have advertising funding like Mint, but I want to echo how the Newbie documentation was very little help for me running 4.2.1. I didn't learn anything from it, but then again, I'm not new to Linux. The various Puppy resources seem scattered and I wish I didn't have to search the forum for basic answers, but, that's the way it goes.

For example, my Laptop is a newer model, a Dell Latitude E5400. Therefore, the hardware is newer, and some drivers needed to be added, etc. I wanted to get my Broadcom wireless card working, and fortunately I found the hybrid driver posted on the forums, and now I am wireless. However, the site http://www.linlap.com/wiki/dell+latitude+e5400 said I needed the Linux Kernel version 2.6.27 or higher to run the official driver with ndiswrapper. So, at first I thought I would have to compile a new kernel. That doesn't bother me, I have done that before for Ubuntu, but then I found out the source had to be patched to work with Puppy. So, I searched for patched source to work with Puppy 4.2.1, but the kernel source I found was less than 2.6.27. So I read the part about patching the kernel source, but then it said I needed an squashfs patch to match my kernel source, and I was stuck. There were no clues about how I could get the source for the squashfs and modify it to work with a newer kernel source than shown in the example. I searched for a newer kernel on the forums, but again, no luck. I should mention I downloaded and placed the kernel_src-2.6.29.4-patched.sfs from http://puppylinux.com/sources/kernel-2.6.29.4/ in the proper location for .sfs files, but it wouldn't mount, so I think it is for a version of Puppy newer than 4.2.1.

So, yeah, the docs seem a bit disorganized and outdated. If you want to see a really awesome FAQ about an OS, check out the OpenBSD FAQ, and their man pages. Those people really know how to write documentation.

Again, I know everyone is doing this for fun, or volunteering, so I am not complaining, but you asked, so that is my main concern... compiling a new kernel version isn't as easy as doing it for Ubuntu because of the patches required.

MORE about what I like;

I like running off the usb stick so I can backup and fix my Windows XP installations. I got Ghost for Linux, plus I compiled chntfs for Linux, because my friends always seem to break their windows and forget their Administrator password. I also like running the usb stick on my work laptop so I can do things without messing with that installation.

Notes:

I need to upgrade Alsa to 1.0.18 or higher so I can get sound working, and I would like to see if I can use the "intel" driver from xorg that comes standard with the newer versions of Ubuntu because display is not as crisp as when I use Mint.

One last thing... The wakepup floppy is a great idea for those older computers, however, I have a newer desktop computer that is supposed to be able to boot to a usb drive, but it doesn't want to boot my Puppy usb stick, but it doesn't have a floppy drive... Sooo, it would be cool to have a wakepup CD-ROM...

Thanks for all of the hard work people! I am happy to be using Puppy on my 1GiB SanDisk Cruzer Micro, formatted to VFAT.

I still consider myself a "noob" even though I have experience with Puppy since the 1's and 2's.

I've used Puppy 3, but went back to 2.17ce because of stability and compatibility problems.

Over the years I've left puppy because of the lack of wireless support, or the programs I wanted did not run (streamtuner/xmms, supertux, chess), or were no longer included.

For example the open office sfs debacle. It wasn't until version 4.11 that I was finally able to get open office's .sfs to load and work.

I've left puppy because of SeaMonkey, and poor/non existent support for flash and java, difficulties getting them to work. Even today with 4.11 getting these things to work is no picnic.

But I always come back to Puppy. Why? because with every version I am intensely curious to see what they've fixed and what is still or newly broken. It's fun to tinker and break/fix things, on a non-critical machine. Not sure I would use any bleeding edge distro on a critical machine.

Puppy has been a loyal friend when I am performing data recovery for myself and others. I've run Puppy as a live cd and hard drive installs. A friend who was used to Vista complained that Puppy's internet was "too fast." HAHA.

Haven't experimented with usb yet or the wake pup floppy. Do people still use floppies? YES!

Past attempts to dual boot with windows xp and puppy ended in failure because of grub (and supergrub could not help me) so I'm not ready to dual boot xp or vista and xp yet. Maybe in the weeks before my windows 7 beta expires I'll try again.

Printing: I've never had trouble with Puppy printing to a usb or network printer, it's amazing! But then I only use hp printers which are well supported.

Wireless: Puppy still does not support the current level of wifi encryption but wep 64 bit works great - that's what I am using at the moment. HOPE NONE OF MY NEIGHBORS HAVE HACKED ME.

I think that Puppy has lost sight of the original "just works" goal lately and leans more towards the "nothing works without lots of tinkering aspect of linux.

I'd like to see Puppy fork into two versions:
1. development
2. stable-everything works!

I'd like to see better support for downloads, packages and community pets. For example if I want to find the latest pet I have to search the forums for days, and when I find it, download and try to install the link is broken, or the pet won't install due to missing dependencies, or it's an older version of whatever and breaks something else.

My suggestion, which I have made before is that installs check for newer or prior version of whatever on the machine before overwriting.

NO AUTOMATIC UPDATES - Why? If nothing else, the package manager should update the list of AVAILABLE packages, give the user the option.

But ideally when something is fixed we could save lots of cd's etc. by just offering the update as most distros do (heck, even microsoft operating systems can do that!) instead of forcing people to download an entire new distro and burn a new cd. Especially for folks on dial up or dsl. At 56k even a mini distro takes a very long time!

Wireless support: I know a lot of people have worked really hard on wireless, but it's still not ready for the latest encryption standards. I have other skills that I can contribute but programming and writing drivers etc is not my cup of tea. Past forum posts asking for help have received snippy responses. Tragic.

Compatibility with past versions is lacking - I should not have to abandon my favorite programs if there is no comparable program to replace it with. Bummer.

All in all Puppy is one of the best mini distros out there, but it could be so much better!

I think there are too many options in the "start menu". It should be cleaner like in Windows and then in a Control Panel type environment you should have all the complex options.

I think it's just kind of overwhelming for a newbie to see all that stuff in the Menu, and especially since I am trying to get Puppy to work on my Mother's laptop I don't want her accidentally clicking all over the place like she tends to do.

Posted: Thu 25 Jun 2009, 07:37 Post subject:
too many optionsSubject description: for a newbie, why have so many options to break things

Whilst setting up Puppy on an old pc for a friend, it dawned on me that he may alter desktop settings and system configuration settings inadvertently, leading to a disappointing experience. Why not reduce the number of menu options to basics, possibly adding an advanced configuration button, hiding all the settings that could alter the system.
My friend needs only a web browser, nothing else. If Puppy is meant to be a no brainer, why have such a complex desktop menu?

If I had a wish [noobish] it would be to make installing regular Linux programs easier. I am totally Linux illiterate and can't figure out how to install even the simplest of things.

My ultimate need/goal of looking at Puppy was to reclaim an old laptop [bad HD] and make it into a Teamspeak server. Teamspeak has a Linux server program, but I haven't a clue on how to go about installing it, let alone saving what I've done so that I can run the thing from a CD/DVD. I've read briefly about multisession DVD use of Puppy and that sounds promising [Teamspeak is very small - perfect for something like Puppy] but being Linux illiterate it becomes very difficult to get past the basics.

There you have it, I'm not embarrassed to admit it. 20 years ago I probably would have taken up the cause and learned Linux, but now it's too late - the old brainpan is full and the learning part is suffering from it.

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