Relationship deal breakers, then and now

This is a post from staff writer Robert Brokamp of The Motley Fool. Robert is a Certified Financial Planner and the adviser for The Motley Fool’s Rule Your Retirement service.

I recently had breakfast with a woman I dated almost 20 years ago, soon after I graduated from college. She’s married now, with two beautiful kids and a husband who seems like one of those solid, true-blue, stay-at-home-dad kind of guys. I’m married now, too (though not to a stay-at-home dad), with kids who are also pretty swell, mostly because my wife is such an outstanding mother.

My former girlfriend and I dated for approximately two years, as I recall, and remained close for a while after we no longer lived in the same city. However, I can’t recall us ever talking about marrying each other, largely because neither of us was sure we wanted to marry anyone. I actually was quite adamant about remaining single my entire life; she may have been more on the fence.

This got me to thinking about how priorities change for relationships as we get older. Every once in a while, I’ll have a conversation with someone about “deal breakers” — the personality traits or habits that would make any relationship (whether it’s romantic, professional, or platonic) pretty much impossible. If you would have asked me in my 20s for the list of deal breakers in a potential spouse, I would have listed something along the lines of the following:

She consumed drugs or alcohol (which I saw as the same thing). I was a very judgmental and self-righteous young man.

She smoked.

Her goal was to get married, and soon.

She had little to no sense of humor.

She wasn’t Catholic. I told you I was very judgmental and self-righteous.

She was a couch potato.

She didn’t like the smell of pickles. Just kidding, sorta — my sisters used to tell me I smelled like pickles. They also called me Lurch (as in the “Addams Family” butler). Don’t you love siblings?

There would have been other characteristics that would have been challenging, such as hating to dance, not appreciating music, and not enjoying books (which are these pieces of paper that are glued or stitched together – you might have seen some in your grandmother’s house). But they wouldn’t have been insurmountable. And, of course, I’m not talking about the extreme relationship squashers – for example, being a cannibal. I’m just talking about the characteristics and habits that you’d encounter in everyday life. I’m sure you had/have your own, which would be interesting to read in the comments section below.

A couple of decades later, some of those deal breakers would still be important (were I in the market for a mate again), while others, frankly, seem rather silly. I couldn’t date anyone who was an addict of any kind, though casual drinking is just fine; I do it myself (though I still have never been drunk). As for being Catholic, I don’t even go to church anymore, much to my mother’s gnashing of teeth. A sense of humor is still good to have, but couples don’t have to find the exact same things funny. Since I’ve become a bit of a health nut, smoking would still be tough, but perhaps not quite deal-breaker status. I’d still include “couch potato” on the list. Music and dancing have become less important as I’ve gotten older.

What strikes me now — after spending many years building a career, raising a family, and co-running a household — is the lack of any practical deal breakers I would have had back then. Specifically, there’s nothing about the management of money. Of course, in my early 20s I was still in that “save the world” phase. I had been in a seminary, then chose a pre-med degree so I could be a doctor for underprivileged populations; but instead of going to medical school, I became a volunteer teacher in inner-city schools (though my specific school ending up not being so inner-city). To have put something about money on the deal-breaker list would have seemed shallow and materialistic.

But I’ve since grown up. If I were to make that list now, it would have something about the management of money. It wouldn’t be as strict as “A woman with more than $10,000 in credit card debt and carries a balance” because I’ve known so many good people who have been in that situation. But I’ve also seen so much marital strife caused by financial difficulties and mismatched priorities. My wife, who’s a mental-health therapist, has plenty of examples of her own, from her many years of helping people get their lives together.

It’s not that two people have to be perfectly matched. When my wife and I first met, she was much more comfortable with a low bank account than I was. It was understandable, given the way she grew up. But she recognized that it wasn’t ideal, and I relaxed a bit, too; we got each other to compromise. She’s been fabulous about setting up various accounts for our financial goals, and I’ve relaxed about spending a bit more for things like family vacations.

The real deal breaker would be huge amounts of debt with no appreciation for the consequences and no real desire to change. No interest in saving for the future would also be tough. For me, money isn’t about buying things; it’s about security for my family, education and experiences for my kids, and enough money to not fear old age or health crises. I can’t imagine being with someone who didn’t understand that. Even if she didn’t mind the smell of pickles.

We all gotta grow up sometime

If my 23-year-old self were able to read this post written by my 43-year-old self, I think the young me would have been quite surprised, and perhaps a bit disappointed – at least until I had the chance to talk about my kids, my wife, and my job as an actual, bona fide writer (for a company with the wacky name “The Motley Fool,” no less). I just wouldn’t have anticipated becoming so practical and having a job related to money; it might have felt like selling out or something.

But if my 43-year-old self could talk to my 23-year-old self, I’d try to explain that being financially responsible is the foundation for everything else, especially once you have kids. I’m not sure I would have understood, but nowadays, I couldn’t have it any other way.

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For me, I think this has developed into a requirement that I be able to work with my partner on different projects to build our financial future. That’s been a cornerstone of our marriage (it even started before we used the m-word!), and I wouldn’t want it any other way if (heaven forbid) I end up back on the dating scene.

I still have the same “deal breakers” as I did in my 20s. Granted I’m only in my 30s, but I still look for the same qualities and avoid those deal breakers. Money management has always been on my list. I guess it’s because I’ve read a lot of books on financial independence and that is something I value highly. If the other person is not on board with that, then I don’t see the relationship going very far.

If your 23-year-old self wasn’t interested in finding someone to marry and build a life with, then screening potential girlfriends by their ability to manage money actually WOULD have been shallow and materialistic. In a dating relationship where two adults maintain independent lives while enjoying each other’s company, I’d say their finances are none of your business and vice-versa.

In hindsight I’d disagree. In my 20s I dated people who I thought were interesting without any consideration of their money management skills (or maturity.) It was a mistake.

My goal to date people who took the road less travelled led me, the baby MBA, to eventually have a failed marriage with a punk rocker who had chronic money issues. He was interesting for sure, but he could have easily brought me down financially. But by the time I considered that part of the equation I was too emotionally involved to make the rational decision (end the relationship and marry someone more suitable.)

I am quite a bit older now with daughters of my own. They will be taught to consider the reliability, maturity and money management skills of the individuals with whom they become romantically linked, whether or not they are ready for marriage.

Considering the financial status of a potential mate/date makes good sense. That doesn’t mean you have to ask about credit scores on the first date as someone suggested. But if your date’s credit card gets declined on the first date, second date, third date, etc… you have to stop and wonder what’s going on and whether or not someone who doesn’t handle money well or know their credit limit is going to be the right choice for you.

Well maybe I’m “too young” but I thought your first list was at least half good! My husband and I met at 20 and while some of my priorities have changed (I became a Christian and I know a lot more about money management now) many of them are still the same. I think now that I’ve been married a few years I’ve moved “honesty and openness” from a high priority in a spouse to nearly the top one – I’m so happy with how my marriage is playing out in that regard and can’t imagine it any other way. Seems I picked a good egg that evolves with me, particularly on the money side of things.

And this is why teenagers call their parents uncool. It’s becuase we get practical and realistic. When I was a kid, choosing a girlfriend because she would make a good mother was not something on my mind, but when I got alittle older suddenly that started to become important. We all gotta grow up sometime!

I think it is important to find someone who isn’t a big spender and won’t constantly pressure you into spending money on things you don’t need. I hear of people who are trying to pay down debt, yet constantly struggling with their significant other because the other one is always wanting to eat out, go out with friends, or buy other materialistic junk. If you struggle like that for a while, maybe its time to move on as they will always be fighting against any progress you can make.

I personally don’t believe in having “deal breakers” in mind that knock out certain people in the dating quest.

When I met my now husband he didn’t have a car, had failed out of two colleges, had no money to speak of, and $1000 in CC debt with no desire to change.

I went to a top 10 school, was focusing on my career and building financial security, was very religious and had my life basically together.

If I had had deal breakers, I wouldn’t have even gone out wwith him. But I liked him, and got to know him better. Some things wound up being less important to me than I had thought, but mostly I just tried to enjoy who he was. Slowly, he started to pull his life together. He went back to school, got a degree, got a job and proposed to me. He even began going to church and re-sparked his relationship with God. I never pushed for any of these things, but he just naturally wanted to be a stable guy that could have a family, and so he took these steps on his own.

He still isn’t the Ivy league doctor I had imagined myself with, but he’s so perfect for me. He makes me laugh, is creative, happy, and has the biggest heart full of unconditional love. He helped me to be less judgemental, serious, and jealous, and has opened my eyes to new possibilities.

I am glad that I never let deal breakers get in my way, but I also never asked him to change who he is. I just loved him and we both grew to be what each other needed.

I don’t think it’s shallow to have certain deal breakers — sometimes they’re a way of articulating what values and lifestyle habits work for us. For example, I couldn’t form a long-term relationship with someone who breaks the law — like dealing drugs, stealing or cheating someone in business. That’s a deal breaker for me, yet it hasn’t bothered some of my friends in the past.

I’ve seen couples who had rough beginnings grow and change together for the better, and couples who thought they had everything going for them end in debt and divorce. I try to keep an open mind, but at the same time realize there are certain values I hope to share with my future husband.

I guess I think of deal breakers as rules you set for yourself to keep you from dating someone that you would otherwise be attracted to. If my husband had been doing something I find grotesque like dealing drugs, I doubt I would have been attracted to him, and thus wouldn’t need a rule to keep me from him.

I’m just glad I followed my heart and didn’t worry about how my husband looked on paper or stacked up to the man I thought I would marry because it turns out that as much as I thought I had it all together, I really didn’t konw what kind of a man would make me happy.

Aww, that’s a really sweet story! He sounds like a gem. You also sound like you have your head on your shoulders and had a lot of empathy, patience, and ability to see to the heart of the matter.

I know for myself, I need rules because I can get sucked into a place emotionally where my logic doesn’t work as well, so having rules keeps me from making big mistakes. Interestingly, it was a book called “Deal Breakers” that helped me get out of a toxic marriage, I had to step back from all of the whirlwind of emotions and guilt and love and blame, and realize how much the marriage violated the dealbreakers I would have instituted if my head had been clearer. I now have a series of “boundaries” to try to keep me from making the same mistakes, and to keep me in a healthy situation and in a healthy mindset.

My current dealbreakers: if they don’t have
-That “click” where things just feel right and you get each other
-Integrity and an ethical code they follow day-to-day
-A curious inquiring mind
-Kindness and sweetness
-Some financial stability (low income is fine if he can handle it)

@Phoebe – I enjoyed your story because it reminded me of friends who are happily married to people their friends and family didn’t think “looked good on paper”. Life has a funny way of surprising us :)

I worry that in this era of online dating, it’s getting easier for people to approach potential relationships with a shopping list. Some of the “must haves” on people’s profiles are quite daunting.

Good comment. People are always changing and because of that “dealbreakers” point to only one specific point in time. I never thought to have dealbreakers per se and I’m glad because then I would have missed out of a lot of the cool guys I got to know and learn about myself from. I realized that I’d rather have someone whose nature was want to improve and enjoy learning about new things rather than someone who seemed to be paper perfect at the time I met him, but later realize he had tendencies I didn’t agree with.

It feels like the problem today is everything has become a commodity, including the “right” relationship.

Instead of worrying about creating wonderful credit scores and having an advanced degree(s), how about having the self-esteem and respect for your instincts and feelings to just love someone. The power of love can be very transforming to those who might need it, even if they think they don’t.

It seems to me at 65 years old, that Phoebe has the right idea. She let herself feel the love and receive it and trust that her instincts were right.

Because when all is said and done, when you’re old and gray, the person you can still talk to and makes you laugh is worth any high credit score or professional degree.

That’s why I made sure to add the word “some” because its definitely not everyone. I’m single myself (as in unmarried, but I am in a relationship), and I’m also divorced. I learned so much along the way. Since my divorce 10 years ago I’ve seen so many couples come and go – I’ve been learning a lot from them.

I kind of have to respectfully disagree. My first husband (met at 19) seemed like a great guy in every way, but after marriage I realized he was the star of the show in that all money earned went to his indulgences, and I was only the stage hand.

But even if you are not exactly the same when it comes to finances I think you can still work things out if you are on board with the big picture.

For us we’ve been upfront and clear when it came to money before we were married. We had a famous financial summit prior to buying a house together (prior to marriage).

Then after marriage we paid off all our unsecured debt and we agreed not to use credit or unsecured debt except in very limited and agreed situations. We got on a spending plan and an allowance and we’ve pretty much been working the same plan since 2007. I pay all the bills and generally manage our savings.

Mr. Sam would prefer to do more trading and investing and I’d prefer to keep more in the bank but we come to agreeable solutions. We just went thru the process of getting life insurance and umbrella insurance and Mr. Sam didn’t really have that as a priority for our finances.

Most of what we do is easier because Mr. Sam is frugal but pays little attention to money matters and I’m the spendthrift but I’m somewhat militant about our finances. Its a good balance.

I joke with my husband that if he had a Match.com profile, I would have never clicked on him and yet, we have been together for over 12 years and he is still my best friend. On paper, he has a lot of my deal breakers but in person, he is my knight in shining armor.

I believe one of the many reasons that has kept us going strong is our outlook on money. I have many friends that struggle with how to spend or save money with their spouse but for us, it has never come into question. Even when we were dating, we were open and honest if we couldn’t afford something. I guess we never went too far out of our way to impress eachother with money.

If I am ever in the dating scene again, I will run and hide from men who try to lure me with expensive gifts and fancy dinners. I feel like they are overcompensating.

My husband seemed a deal breaker from the very beginning, as I didn’t see myself marrying a foreigner, I even told my parents that I am dating somebody but it’s definitely not serious (imagine their reaction:-). Well, the relationship grew on me and we solved the foreign thing by getting married and immediately moving to the US where we became both foreigners.
If I had known in advance that we’ll eventually settle into a me working, him stay-at-home-dad type of marriage, this may have served as another deal breaker – but it works extremely well for us. Only yesterday I told him I couldn’t imagine how we would have managed if he was working (we just had a sick kid returned from daycare)
And as for financials, since coming to the US, we have been into negative 6-digit loan situation (post graduation), maxed our credit cards at one point (pre-finding a job), but have now been debt-free for a while. So no assumptions in that regard either.

Well Iâ€™m still in my 20â€™s, but far enough along that Iâ€™ve started thinking about what I want as a life partner (Iâ€™m hetero, I love that term for both gay and straight couples, better than spouse).

He must:

– Be financially smart, or learning (this has always been important to me)

– Have good work ethic, no matter the type of work. When my first boyfriend and I started dating he did not have a job. It took him nearly 6 months to get one, and he didnâ€™t start looking until several weeks prior. I later found out he was working for his motherâ€™s company and was threatened to be firedâ€¦by his own mother! He used to brag about all of the ways he could get out of working. He was nice and funny and cuteâ€¦.but I did not have much respect for himâ€¦and that killed it for me.

– Be independent. By that I mean, not relying or asking for help just because he doesnâ€™t want to work at it himself. Again, ex-boyfriend example lol. We kept in touch several years after we broke up. Last I heard, at the age of 29 he was still getting at least Â½ of his expenses paid by his parents, if not more. I wouldnâ€™t be surprised if at the age of 31 he was still being substantially subsidized by his family. UNATTRACTIVE.

– A deal breaker is self-pity. Someone who is consistently unhappy but unwilling to do anything about itâ€¦and even enjoys the feeling of helplessness. Iâ€™ve been in a relationship with someone with depression, but he appeared to exploit it. Iâ€™m sorry if this is insensitive, but after that, I donâ€™t think I can be in a long-term relationship with someone with chronic depressionâ€¦particularly if they are not seeking treatment. I have the opposite outlook of life and facing problems than someone dealing with depression (which is a â€œget over it and get on with itâ€ attitude) and I donâ€™t think it would work because they would be frustrated with me for not understanding, and I would be frustrated for not understanding as well, and not being able to help.

– Another thing I wonâ€™t do is date an excessive drinker. Done it, never will again.

I swear I am not really picky or judgemental, but Iâ€™ve worked hard at improving myself and my life and I only would like someone that has paid the same kind of attention for theirs

I wish I had given more consideration to articulating my values and expectations regarding finances before getting married the first time – but I was young, stupid, and in love.
It didn’t take me long to figure out that our viewpoints were very different – but it took me years to realize that this was not going to change. A direct quote from my ex, “We don’t have any money – why do we need a financial plan?”
Fast forward to marriage #2 and you can be sure that we discussed our financial viewpoints before we took the big step. It’s an ongoing discussion and we don’t always agree – but we are moving in the same direction and, based on past experience, I can appreciate the lack of stress that comes from knowing the other person is on the same financial page.
I’m not sure if “dealbreaker” should be taken as a criterion for not starting a relationship or getting to know someone. I think if you are attracted to someone it’s probably worth getting to know them better before crossing them off your list. But to me it is definitely worth having a clear idea of your own values and the abiity to articulate them. If the other person cannot do this, or is unwilling to have the discussion, then it is definitely a warning sign, especially around finances. In my experience love does not conquer all without a healthy dose of reality mixed in :)

Religion can be a big deal breaker. It’s not being self-rightous, it’s a practical issue. I’m Catholic. I belive in using fertility awareness to space my children. That’s not a popular stance and there’s not really a way to compromise on it. So, that leaves me with other observant Catholics, or certain evangelicals or men who are very health/environmentally conscious. I also insist on having my children raised Catholic. Again, it’s not that non-Catholics are bad people, it’s just that certain things can’t be comprimised on…. I believe in infant baptism and some evangelicals don’t…so what do we do? That’s not being judgmental, it’s being realistic. THESE are the things that matter in marriage, the practical day-to-day issues. Not romantic, but…

And these are exactly the reasons why a serious ex and I broke it off. I had my opinions on religion (mostly all negative, I admit), and he was a staunch Catholic who wouldn’t budge on issues like BC and raising a family to be Catholic.

Looking back on it, I should have seen the warning signs early in the relationship. He was almost perfect in every other aspect, and was most definitely perfect on paper, and I tried my hardest to please him while staying true to myself. In the end, those religious differences just weren’t reconcilable. I wish I had understood that when I was 19. Luckily we didn’t marry, but I wasted several years on a relationship that was probably doomed from the start!

So that’s now one of my dealbreakers – religious guys are just not for me. Too much pain and angst to be worth it! I am lucky to be with someone now who accepts me for who I am and what I (don’t) believe, instead of trying to change me.

Coming from another Catholic, I think it’s GOOD that you know you don’t want to be with someone really religious! If something is important enough to me to stake my eternal well-being on it, I’d much rather someone be honest with me and say we just shouldn’t be together. They’re right! It’s too important to me not to share it with someone important enough to me to be my spouse. No sense pretending that’s going to change.

I think honesty is key, both with the other person, and with ourselves. If something makes you all cringe-y every time it comes up, you don’t want to have to hide that your whole life.

And to drea, another one of the big ones I’ve found is how few people really believe marriage is indissoluble. That should absolutely be a deal-breaker. If one of you thinks of marriage as being impossible to end before death and the other thinks of it as something you try with great hopes, but may not work, you probably shouldn’t get married. You have no agreement on what you’re entering!

For me balance is key. There are things I won’t tolerate for sure, but I don’t want to price myself out of the market completely either as I pointed out in a previous comment. When I look in the mirror and at my life, I am not perfect either.

I’m in my 30s and not *gainfully* employed, living with a (expensive) chronic illness, etc. By PF/GRS standards, I should be single for the rest of my life because I am so not a catch!

Great post! I would’ve had the same thing on my list about music, dancing (though I would’ve said they had to go out drinking… because I always did).

I do sort of wish I had more of a religion thing on my ‘deal breaker list’ though I’m certainly happy with my significant other! My husband was forced to do all the catholic stuff and – like most folks I know who were forced into catholicism – now hates church and would be happy never going to one again. I could probably win him over if I tried hard enough, but as yet haven’t got the motivation to do so.

I’m married with a nursing baby, and planning another- needless to say I haven’t had more than a sip of wine or beer in nearly two years. And geez, last time I was at a club- maybe 3 years ago for a friend’s 30th birthday party? My how priorities change in a decade.

I used to be more of a spender. My husband is super cheap and saves everything. We met in the middle and have nice retirement accounts and savings. His influence on my saving mentality allowed me to be a stay at home Mom, comfortable that we could make it on 45K a year with a mortgage, 2 cars, and eventually 2 or 3 kids.

Thanks for the wonderful post, Robert. I also had a list of qualities that would probably have been likened to your deal breakers. And I was extremely judgemental, I realize now that it was probably due to my strict Christian upbringing, which I embraced and took wholesale. I am still a Christian however experience has taught me that dating or marrying a non-Christian is no longer a deal breaker for me. I am still single (although I donâ€™t want to be) and will be 39 in April of this year and at 12 years of age, I started praying for my future husband, as instructed by my Christian teachers. Society has this assumption that we all get married but I now realize that when statistics say something like 99% of people do this, the 1% that doesnâ€™t do it is usually dismissed. Here we are discussing relationships, and one commenter wrote about some people wondering why they are still single when they donâ€™t want to be. Wellâ€¦.I donâ€™t know why Iâ€™m still single when I donâ€™t want to be. It still baffles me and sometimes I just tell myself that there must be this small group of nice people like me, hoping, praying, wishing and wanting, and adjusting their deal breakers but still nothing happens.
As a Christian, one big deal breaker was never dating or marrying a non-Christian. By Christian, I mean something equal to evangelical (for those of you in the U.S or Canada). However, I decided to widen my horizons after so many years of dating Christians who were not ready for marriage. A few years ago I started dating a Muslim man who, apart from religious differences, was very kind, honest, non-judgemental and with a great sense of humour. We super connected! Now that religion as a deal breaker was gone, I explored the relationship further and discovered he was not interested in having kids. Hmmâ€¦..Iâ€™ve never imagined going through life without becoming a mother. So when I got pregnant and he didnâ€™t want me to have the baby I realized that abortion was not in the works for me. It occurred to me then, that deep down in my spirit, motherhood was more important than anything. I didnâ€™t dump him but decided to have the baby and I am now an awesome mom of a 15-month old girl and I occasionally ask myself why I never took this step earlier. I guess, twenty years ago, having a child out of wedlock was a deal breaker for me. I now tell myself that it might as well have been a myth, believing that I would get married first, have babies and live happily ever after. I now feel bad that religion was a deal breaker that probably cost me some wonderful relationships. I agree with Ivy who posted earlier, I now use my gut feeling more.

Ha, those are mine too, and they have served me well over the years. I don’t even know any people who take drugs or gamble excessively or anything crazy like that, so I don’t have to worry about those kinds of problems. Well, that and the fact I have a husband. :0D

When I first met my husband he was an alcoholic with consumer & student loan debt who didn’t see a reason to save for retirement (never thought he’d have one) and didn’t have a problem with consumer debt either (you’re always going to owe someone something). And he didn’t go to church either.

Well, he’d already recognized the alcohol as a problem, and hasn’t had a drink in years. Talking to me about my dreams for the future made him want those same things, so he changed his behavior to be fiscally responsible. And he goes to church with me on Sundays. I am so thrilled that he’s my spouse, because he’s an incredible human being, and such a wonderful fit for me.

Now, had some of his views not changed and evolved while we were dating, would I have still wanted to commit to spending my life with him? Maybe not. But we are truly in sync with our goals, and it’s been a great match. It’s good to have expectations for a marriage partner, but one shouldn’t necessarily have all lines drawn in the sand before dating someone. People do change, after all.

I’m young, but have enough years behind me to reflect upon and I probably wouldn’t date the people that I did back then. Everyone I dated except my last two relationships were not life-mate material. It may sound insulting (to my exes), but they were just distractions along the way.

Looking back, I learned nothing other than to stay away from folks like the ones I dated. I don’t have a thoughtful list of deal-breakers, but you can rest assure that I know when to jump ship when I recognize it.

I agree that being financially responsible is a foundation for a lifelong relationship & family. I didn’t have any of that until my current partner and we’re better for it. We’re creating a foundation for us to build a future instead of surviving just for the moment. Without the stress and resentment that a lack of financial responsibility causes, our focus can be shifted towards planning, executing and achieving our future goals.

I can’t say I ever had a list of deal breakers but there were nice guys I never dated because I could tell right off the bat we were incompatible. I never dated all that much (my social life was more serial monogamy than actually dating) but once I met my husband I knew that was it – I was done being a serial monogamist. I was a monogamist for life.

Sometimes when I hear Dave Ramsey talk, I think money has an importance in his life that it doesn’t have for my husband and me. Personally, I’d be careful about creating hard and fast rules about relationship deal breakers whether it’s finances or anything else. If it’s meant to be the two of you should be able to come to a mutual agreement on those things that on paper might sound like dealbreakers.

10K in credit card debt would certainly be a deal breaker to me! Unless it was *completely* unforeseen circumstances, it says a lot about a person’s character of indulgence.

The following are also deal breakers:

– Mean drunk (or has to get drunk daily)
– Gambling addict
– Drug addict
– Is racist/prejudice
– Doesn’t like to travel
– Has 3 kids by three different men and one of the fathers is in prison
– Cannot properly pronounce the word “aluminum”
– Cannot name 4 countries in Europe that aren’t Italy or France (hint: Holland isn’t a country)
– Cannot name 3 authors who aren’t Stephen King, JK Rowling, or Dan Brown
– Does not know the name of their current prime minister or president
– Is religious and talks about it all the time
– Is jealous
– Is xenophobic
– Is consistently rude or condescending to others
– Has an iPhone, an iPad, *and* a Coach handbag
– Is a picky eater
– Takes 3 hours to get ready to go out for dinner
– Like to puts her feet up on the back of another person’s chair in a movie theatre or on an airplane
– Talks about her cat/dog for hours at a time

…I think that’s about it. :/

I really don’t care if it seems judgemental or what, it’s just not gonna work out so I ain’t even goin’ there.

“- Cannot name 4 countries in Europe that arenâ€™t Italy or France (hint: Holland isnâ€™t a country)
– Cannot name 3 authors who arenâ€™t Stephen King, JK Rowling, or Dan Brown
– Does not know the name of their current prime minister or president
– Is religious and talks about it all the time
– Has an iPhone, an iPad, *and* a Coach handbag
– Cannot properly pronounce the word â€œaluminumâ€
– Is consistently rude or condescending to others”

Really? *YOU* find it a turnoff when people are rude and condescending to others?? Wow.

And by the way, Holland IS a country… maybe some people in Holland don’t like that the rest of the world uses Netherlands and Holland interchangeably, but c’est la vie, it doesn’t make the whole world stupid for following a globally recognized convention. Yes, you’re a precious smart person, and most likely Dutch to boot, good job. Oh wait, was it rude and condescending of me to point out how rude and condescending you are?

I think deal breakers can be very dangerous. I had a friend who was in her mid 30s and had seriously dated lots of guys. From each failed relationship, she developed another deal breaker. My thought at the end of it was that no guy was ever going to live up to her expectations. Plus what was a deal breaker with one person might not be with another, especially if the next person is willing to change.

Having said that, I do think someone should NEVER marry someone who doesn’t want children if you have any inkling you want them. This is a deal breaker. And largely I agree with the religion discussion. If it’s something that matters to you, I would think carefully before marrying someone who has polar opposite views than you.

Money is a tricky one. My husband had about $10,000 in credit card debt upon our marriage. With my frugal ways and his cooperation, we got rid of it right away and have never looked back. I would have missed out on a wonderful guy and a great marriage if I had ruled him out on that issue alone.

Are there ever things that start out as OK and slowly evolve into deal breakers?

When I was about the same 23 year old age, I thought it was OK to date a guy who had a casual recreational drug use issue – with rules – he couldn’t do it around me or ever have me with him when he purchased his stash. As we aged, I became more mature and he stayed stuck in the smoking/video game world he lived in. He also became less responsible. And yes – the drug use became the ultimate deal breaker.

Now, my current fiance smokes daily and drinks in the evenings. These things aren’t deal breakers, per say, but his inability to deal with them despite growing health issues is giving me cause for pause. Because now, as they directly contribute to medical debt, they’re not as easy to shrug off…

In a recent conversation with my sister (who has been separated off and on from her husband for the past couple years due to his inability to hold down a job or support their family), she brought up the idea of asking someone their credit score on the first date. Even though I’m generally the one who is (or tries to be, with mixed results :/) more discerning about men, I thought that sounded like its own deal-breaker, asking for TMI too soon. As well as a real romance killer! Though it does seem to be more and more common to ask such things. I probably could have avoided a lot of turmoil by asking my ex about his credit score early on.

Thanks God I have an SO now. If someone asked me my credit score on a first date I would walk out. No matter what my credit score is, its humiliating that I’m being measured first by numbers and figures, not who I am as a person.

I don’t have any issue with anyone asking or judging me by my credit score. (Of course someone with excellent credit would say that, most would think)

However having great credit also makes you subject to less than stellar people looking for an easier ride… You still have to CYA with common sense in the world.

The truth is that a persons credit score does say a bit about what kind of person someone is.

I don’t see that being the first question I would ever ask a potential mate… My GF of 5 years is pretty serious working towards marriage. I don’t know her Credit score but she is a spender for sure.. but she does pay her self about $10K a year into retirement vehicles so there is some restraint to putting things off for the future.

It is a metric that does often reflect the lifestyle and responsibilities of a person. But it is not a single metric to base a relationship on either.

“She wasnâ€™t Catholic. I told you I was very judgmental and self-righteous.”

I think you are coming across as self-righteous by even making that snide comment.

I am a devout Catholic, and if you are truly living what you believe on a daily level (not just Sundays or Easter/Christmas), then it is very important to have someone with similar beliefs. It’s not a question of being judgmental, but of being realistic. As it is, my Catholic (but not very devout) SO doesn’t always understand / support me. However, he is way better than the typical a-religious man.

Even devout non-Catholic Christians would find it tough to live with someone who tries to be pious in their daily life and who tries to understand the dogmatic beliefs of my Church.

It isn’t judgmental or self-righteous at all, and by 43 (I’m 46) I would think you’d understand it.

That’s a good point. Changing who you’re being judgmental and self-righteous toward doesn’t actually make you less judgmental or self-righteous. That’s not to say Robert wasn’t judgmental or self-righteous in the past, but patting himself on the back because he’s now judgmental of his former self seems a bit contradictory.

It’s one of my favorite ironies of today’s media. We have to be “tolerant” of absolutely all viewpoints–except deeply religious ones. We can mock those people relentlessly.

Lindsay, I can understand your frustration, that’s a really negative aspect of our culture now. I know my religious friends and family find that very frustrating.

As a counterpoint, I think that some secular people feel very helpless in a country in which it feels like we are held captive by the religious – legally forced to follow rules that we don’t believe in. I suspect that some of the negativity to religion is rooted in that feeling of helplessness. It doesn’t make it right, and ironically I hear the same sentiment of helplessness (secular laws don’t allow for religious values) from my religious friends. I wonder if some of the snideness would disappear if we found a way to have laws that accommodated either way – allow the religious to follow their values and secular to follow theirs, rather than either being hostage to the other’s values. May not be feasible, but it’s an interesting thought…

I support laws that only allocate to the state powers that are truly within the purview of the state. For example, I’d love to see a law that allows any two consenting adults to bestow a certain set of legal privileges on each other, including “next of kin” status for medical affairs, default inheritance of all property, and discounts for purposes of taxation, because two people in committed partnership, even if they’re siblings or something, are generally more stable and better for the economy than any individual trying to make it on his/her own. Then let religious bodies determine their own rules about who can or cannot get “married” within their community. If it’s important to a couple to be “married,” they’re almost sure to be able to find a religious body that will host the ceremony. If not, the legal aspects are at least covered. Religious people can do what they want without governmental interference, and nonreligious people can obtain the same legal privileges as religious people without the religious association. It seems like the way we have it now, the religious and the secular are way too bound up with each other and nobody’s happy.

It’s just an example, and I’m sure there are people on both sides who wouldn’t go for it, but it’s amazing to me how often I find myself scratching my head wondering, “Why is the government involved in this question at ALL, or certainly on a higher level than necessary (i.e. federal vs. state)?”

I don’t think it’s a great idea to have deal-breakers, because you never know who you’ll fall for. That being said, I’m in my late twenties, and, even now, I cannot imagine being with someone who doesn’t mind credit card debt, has no plans for saving for retirement, etc. We have just seen the financial world nearly explode (and I think the wick is only shorter). I don’t understand how people my age don’t appreciate the importance of being financially literate/secure, and saving for the future.

I was also self-righteous (still kinda am – see above). I thought people who wanted money didn’t understand the meaning of life, would never be truly happy, blah blah blah. Now, I think it would be great to live off of investment income, or to have a salary that would allow me to have more of what I want (mostly time to DO the things I want). I want a house, a dog, a family, without having to worry about money. According to my own 23-year old self, I’ve sold out in some ways. According to my current self, I’ve been humbled.

I think it would be very hard for me to move past casual dating with someone who had a lot of debt or didn’t understand or appreciate money. If your interest is in a serious relationship, then you need someone who shares roughly the same set of core values (money, kids, religion, lifestyle) as you do. Otherwise you’re going to be at odds with each other all the time.

I really loved this piece, Robert! It was sweet and personal. And I too look back on the self-righteousness of my young self and wish I had been self-righteous about different things. It’s hard to know the future, though, and it’s hard to know that many of our deal-breakers will morph into the very opposite; on religion, or tastes in spending, or so many other things. I would design my ideal mate quite differently, were I to write my story again. But, I can’t :) at least not unless I do it in fiction!

“But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever” (1Timothy 5:8)
You may not go to church anymore, but you instinctively know……..

-MUST BE HONEST (I should list this one 3 times, as it’s pretty much the biggest deal breaker for me).
-Must be able to talk to me
-Must have self-awareness
-Cannot be violent or aggressive
-Cannot be racist or sexist or homophobic
-Cannot be a drug addict
-Must be able to support themselves, preferably with a proven track record. (I don’t really care what their standard of living is, I just want to know that they can get by on their own).

In general, they need to be pretty open. And I definitely prefer a person who continues to learn and grow (instead of thinking they know everything already).

I always figured ‘dealbreakers’ or ‘rules’ were just artificial blockades to potential relationships. For some they probably are; unreasonably high standards are an excellent way to avoid intimacy. For others it may be a way to rein in runaway emotions.

I never had dealbreakers when I was young, but I didn’t date much either. I wasn’t interested in dating/marriage/family, and all my relationships have been the result of someone pursuing me. I am now married, but were I to become single again, I still don’t think I would pursue marriage or serious relationships. For casual dating, all I’d need would be someone I liked who treated me (and others) well. For marriage, given a second go, I think I would be far too picky to ever do it again.

I like to think I don’t have deal-breakers, but I understand their importance because it’s so easy to get caught up in the emotions of a relationship. What I do have are good male and female friends whose opinion I trust, and who have heretofore been great judges of whether deals should be broken or not

For me, it’s really hard to convey to others my feelings about money and relationships. I think often it is perceived as “I don’t fraternize with people who are bad with money.” I generally don’t, but it’s not nearly that simple. I fraternize with people who respect my choices. People in the “terrible with money” spectrum often don’t fall in that spectrum. I like friends and lovers and a spouse who is open to improvement and efficiency in their life. Not people who say, “I am happy to be in debt up to my eyeballs, struggling, always unhappy.”

It’s just much bigger. I do have friends who are terrible with money or in a tight financial spot, but that are working on improvement, and moving in the right direction. They don’t have to put me down for being fiscally conservative, to make themselves feel better. I am very tolerant of others if they they aren’t going to constantly chastise me for my financial choices. I need friends who understand why I don’t eat out with them every week. Why I can’t drop everything and why I don’t spend money the way they think I should. I could not date someone who constantly pressured me to spend outside of my comfort level, for sure. I see how it certainly matters, even if not choosing to marry.

My spouse and I both have very similar money personalities. I don’t think either of us would have have fared well with other money personalities. A solid financial foundation seems to be the key to everything else in the world, and I just could not compromise on that. I’ve always been attracted to driven men, I don’t think I have ever had to sit down and ask about their financial details. Is generally quite obvious if someone is on the same page as you, and speaks to a correspondence in deeper values. I don’t have much in common with someone who thinks spending money will make them happy. What I found in a spouse (at age 18) was maturity, seriousness, and a feel for what is really important in life. At that age, we really stuck out to each other. I didn’t need a checklist of deal breakers. It would have been silly to ask about his bank accounts and debt (he was working though he did not need to – parents were paying all his bills). Someone who works though they don’t *have to* – was all I needed to know. IT turns out he has never borrowed a cent and saved a ton of money in college. Which was a great start to our financial life together. (I was working and paying my own way, stayed out of debt, but didn’t have much to my name it the process. I think all he needed to know was that I Was also a very hard worker, and independent). Obviously we weren’t buying a lot of crap. If I dated older, I suppose maybe more questions would have to be asked. Things were just pretty transparent as new adults.

This article is spot on!
I had a deal breaker with smoking. Only to later find out that my husband hid smoking from me until we were married. That should have been the first sign things were not what they seemed.

I saw my spouse as having a good job and didn’t question his spending habits. We didn’t move in together until we were married so no surprises there. But when things started getting harder to afford and our bills nor income changed, I started to question where the money went. It was spent on gambling.

Now he has been free of gambling for several years but it took alot of patience and tough love to get there. He has his priorities straight.

We are upfront with the kids on his addiction and we advise the children(they are teenagers) to observe their dates. Are they spending money all the time? Do they use credit cards or pay with cash? See what their future goals are. We want to get them into a habit while young to look for signs.

I wouldn’t have married my husband if I knew back then of his spending habits. But I am glad I did because he has been a wonderful dad to the children and he learned from me how to change his spending habits.

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My name is J.D. Roth. I started Get Rich Slowly in 2006 to document my personal journey as I dug out of debt. Then I shared while I learned to save and invest. Twelve years later, I've managed to reach early retirement! I'm here to help you master your money — and your life. No scams. No gimmicks. Just smart money advice to help you get rich slowly. Read more.

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