2+ Year Member

Why is this the prevailing strategy? I can't think of any worse way to combat something that we aren't sure of, that could end up threatening human life as a species(obviously a very small amount of cases). It makes 0 sense to me that whenever we hear about an ebola outbreak or something stronger that we hear about doctors sitting there in danger continuing to treat patients.

There isn't that much more they can do for patients than other health-care workers. The fact is that physicians are much harder to replace that people lower down the food chain, and if we're talking a threat to human life, dynamics like this are absolutely important to recognize. If they've never experienced an illness before, I don't see how putting them in close quarters with infected patients is going to help things at all.

I understand the appeal to emotion that some will have " but physicians should do everything within their power to help people," Well here's how I look at that: you can see 1 patient and risk your life and thus the ability to help others in the future, or you could administrate the treatment of that 1 patient without having direct contact or simply wait till you can get proper equipment so you can directly treat them and not get infected and not risk being infected and having your abilities compromised.

5+ Year Member

Check out non-core rotations like ophtho, derm, rads, path, rad onc and gas. Clerkship is like a liquor store; they keep the good stuff in the back, behind closed doors. [email protected]

What you're getting at with the end of your question is the thing that plagues people who actually want to do good. The people with good hearts, with good souls want to touch the lives of patients. To really cure disease, mend the wounded, and cure the sick. Too many people enter medical school with good intentions but are then met with hours upon hours of misery, the world closing around them, their relationships lost, their souls beaten. The response? "Man, i did really well... and for what? I hate patients, I have no friends, I lost my hobbies, and now I'm in debt. Do I really want to do family medicine?" BOOM the dermatologist is born. The REASON they went into medical school is no longer the REASON they want to do derm. They want a life. They want money. They did well enough to get it, so why not? [email protected]

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2+ Year Member

I understand that and I'm not just talking about ebola, but in general. I don't understand the mentality of physicians being significant in the initial phase of preventing contagious disease. If anything I'd say they're extremely unimportant initially and then as the disease progresses, they become more important and vital.

5+ Year Member

I understand that and I'm not just talking about ebola, but in general. I don't understand the mentality of physicians being significant in the initial phase of preventing contagious disease. If anything I'd say they're extremely unimportant initially and then as the disease progresses, they become more important and vital.

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Yes, but you don't know what stage people will be when you get there. You think NPs and PAs can handle it? Really? We can't make the argument that they're unqualified one moment and that they're perfect other moments bc we find the situation icky.

Check out non-core rotations like ophtho, derm, rads, path, rad onc and gas. Clerkship is like a liquor store; they keep the good stuff in the back, behind closed doors. [email protected]

What you're getting at with the end of your question is the thing that plagues people who actually want to do good. The people with good hearts, with good souls want to touch the lives of patients. To really cure disease, mend the wounded, and cure the sick. Too many people enter medical school with good intentions but are then met with hours upon hours of misery, the world closing around them, their relationships lost, their souls beaten. The response? "Man, i did really well... and for what? I hate patients, I have no friends, I lost my hobbies, and now I'm in debt. Do I really want to do family medicine?" BOOM the dermatologist is born. The REASON they went into medical school is no longer the REASON they want to do derm. They want a life. They want money. They did well enough to get it, so why not? [email protected]

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2+ Year Member

Yes, but you don't know what stage people will be when you get there. You think NPs and PAs can handle it? Really? We can't make the argument that they're unqualified one moment and that they're perfect other moments bc we find the situation icky.

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I don't think anyone can handle it. I'm not looking for anyone to attempt to cure the people in the initial stage, all I want are accurate symptoms, histories and to have all the highest level people figure out what is going on and what to do about it. All I need the people seeing the patients to do is abate their symptoms while my studs can figure out what we're dealing with and how we fix it. If we have something more deadly than ebola, can a physician actually directly do anything more than a nurse? Not really in my opinion as I don't see how you could if you had no idea what it was. I suspect the only argument against this is that you'd get a more accurate characterization of symptoms with physicians doing the evals.

Also by stage, I mean in terms of populations acquiring the disease(ie 1st wave, 2nd wave) not sequelae.

5+ Year Member

I don't think anyone can handle it. I'm not looking for anyone to attempt to cure the people in the initial stage, all I want are accurate symptoms, histories and to have all the highest level people figure out what is going on and what to do about it. All I need the people seeing the patients to do is abate their symptoms while my studs can figure out what we're dealing with and how we fix it. If we have something more deadly than ebola, can a physician actually directly do anything more than a nurse? Not really in my opinion as I don't see how you could if you had no idea what it was. I suspect the only argument against this is that you'd get a more accurate characterization of symptoms with physicians doing the evals.

Also by stage, I mean in terms of populations acquiring the disease(ie 1st wave, 2nd wave) not sequelae.

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The disease is irrelevant. Even if it was deadlier than Ebola, you'd still want the doctor at the top of the food chain - a physician.

Check out non-core rotations like ophtho, derm, rads, path, rad onc and gas. Clerkship is like a liquor store; they keep the good stuff in the back, behind closed doors. [email protected]

What you're getting at with the end of your question is the thing that plagues people who actually want to do good. The people with good hearts, with good souls want to touch the lives of patients. To really cure disease, mend the wounded, and cure the sick. Too many people enter medical school with good intentions but are then met with hours upon hours of misery, the world closing around them, their relationships lost, their souls beaten. The response? "Man, i did really well... and for what? I hate patients, I have no friends, I lost my hobbies, and now I'm in debt. Do I really want to do family medicine?" BOOM the dermatologist is born. The REASON they went into medical school is no longer the REASON they want to do derm. They want a life. They want money. They did well enough to get it, so why not? [email protected]

Stop hovering to collapse...Click to collapse...Hover to expand...Click to expand...

Yes, but you don't know what stage people will be when you get there. You think NPs and PAs can handle it? Really? We can't make the argument that they're unqualified one moment and that they're perfect other moments bc we find the situation icky.

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He's not arguing that they're perfect.
He's arguing that they're more disposable.
A real humanitarian, that one.

"We can... and we've got to... do better than this."Dr. Seuss

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5+ Year Member

Docs would still be at the top, just I don't feel they need to have the immediate contact with the patients.

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And what would they be doing? Sitting on lawn chairs?

Check out non-core rotations like ophtho, derm, rads, path, rad onc and gas. Clerkship is like a liquor store; they keep the good stuff in the back, behind closed doors. [email protected]

What you're getting at with the end of your question is the thing that plagues people who actually want to do good. The people with good hearts, with good souls want to touch the lives of patients. To really cure disease, mend the wounded, and cure the sick. Too many people enter medical school with good intentions but are then met with hours upon hours of misery, the world closing around them, their relationships lost, their souls beaten. The response? "Man, i did really well... and for what? I hate patients, I have no friends, I lost my hobbies, and now I'm in debt. Do I really want to do family medicine?" BOOM the dermatologist is born. The REASON they went into medical school is no longer the REASON they want to do derm. They want a life. They want money. They did well enough to get it, so why not? [email protected]

Stop hovering to collapse...Click to collapse...Hover to expand...Click to expand...

5+ Year Member

Check out non-core rotations like ophtho, derm, rads, path, rad onc and gas. Clerkship is like a liquor store; they keep the good stuff in the back, behind closed doors. [email protected]

What you're getting at with the end of your question is the thing that plagues people who actually want to do good. The people with good hearts, with good souls want to touch the lives of patients. To really cure disease, mend the wounded, and cure the sick. Too many people enter medical school with good intentions but are then met with hours upon hours of misery, the world closing around them, their relationships lost, their souls beaten. The response? "Man, i did really well... and for what? I hate patients, I have no friends, I lost my hobbies, and now I'm in debt. Do I really want to do family medicine?" BOOM the dermatologist is born. The REASON they went into medical school is no longer the REASON they want to do derm. They want a life. They want money. They did well enough to get it, so why not? [email protected]

Stop hovering to collapse...Click to collapse...Hover to expand...Click to expand...

5+ Year Member

Check out non-core rotations like ophtho, derm, rads, path, rad onc and gas. Clerkship is like a liquor store; they keep the good stuff in the back, behind closed doors. [email protected]

What you're getting at with the end of your question is the thing that plagues people who actually want to do good. The people with good hearts, with good souls want to touch the lives of patients. To really cure disease, mend the wounded, and cure the sick. Too many people enter medical school with good intentions but are then met with hours upon hours of misery, the world closing around them, their relationships lost, their souls beaten. The response? "Man, i did really well... and for what? I hate patients, I have no friends, I lost my hobbies, and now I'm in debt. Do I really want to do family medicine?" BOOM the dermatologist is born. The REASON they went into medical school is no longer the REASON they want to do derm. They want a life. They want money. They did well enough to get it, so why not? [email protected]

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Removed5+ Year Member

son if you have an ebola patient, you have a duty to that patient
it's not just your job, it's your responsibility to take care of them
i'm the farthest thing from an premed idealist but i think this is what we're supposed to do

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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5+ Year Member

son if you have an ebola patient, you have a duty to that patient
it's not just your job, it's your responsibility to take care of them
i'm the farthest thing from an premed idealist but i think this is what we're supposed to do

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He'll be 23 when he graduates from medical school, currently an MS-2. The "duty to patient"/responsibility thing hasn't hit him quite yet.

Check out non-core rotations like ophtho, derm, rads, path, rad onc and gas. Clerkship is like a liquor store; they keep the good stuff in the back, behind closed doors. [email protected]

What you're getting at with the end of your question is the thing that plagues people who actually want to do good. The people with good hearts, with good souls want to touch the lives of patients. To really cure disease, mend the wounded, and cure the sick. Too many people enter medical school with good intentions but are then met with hours upon hours of misery, the world closing around them, their relationships lost, their souls beaten. The response? "Man, i did really well... and for what? I hate patients, I have no friends, I lost my hobbies, and now I'm in debt. Do I really want to do family medicine?" BOOM the dermatologist is born. The REASON they went into medical school is no longer the REASON they want to do derm. They want a life. They want money. They did well enough to get it, so why not? [email protected]

Stop hovering to collapse...Click to collapse...Hover to expand...Click to expand...

2+ Year Member

son if you have an ebola patient, you have a duty to that patient
it's not just your job, it's your responsibility to take care of them
i'm the farthest thing from an premed idealist but i think this is what we're supposed to do

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well first I'd say my duty to a patient is no more than the duty of a chef to their customers.
However if you're going to make the duty argument, I could easily say that jeopardizing my life = a loss of care for patients in the long run, rather than a gain of one, so I don't see that as a valid point.

well first I'd say my duty to a patient is no more than the duty of a chef to their customers.
However if you're going to make the duty argument, I could easily say that jeopardizing my life = a loss of care for patients in the long run, rather than a gain of one, so I don't see that as a valid point.

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Wow, MS-3 is going to hit you like a ton of bricks if you think medicine is analgous to a chef and his customers. I could totally see you as the med student on surgery refusing to help the resident with placing a central line on a patient who has HIV/Hep C. You seem to have a view of medicine from a very egocentric angle.

Check out non-core rotations like ophtho, derm, rads, path, rad onc and gas. Clerkship is like a liquor store; they keep the good stuff in the back, behind closed doors. [email protected]

What you're getting at with the end of your question is the thing that plagues people who actually want to do good. The people with good hearts, with good souls want to touch the lives of patients. To really cure disease, mend the wounded, and cure the sick. Too many people enter medical school with good intentions but are then met with hours upon hours of misery, the world closing around them, their relationships lost, their souls beaten. The response? "Man, i did really well... and for what? I hate patients, I have no friends, I lost my hobbies, and now I'm in debt. Do I really want to do family medicine?" BOOM the dermatologist is born. The REASON they went into medical school is no longer the REASON they want to do derm. They want a life. They want money. They did well enough to get it, so why not? [email protected]

Stop hovering to collapse...Click to collapse...Hover to expand...Click to expand...

Check out non-core rotations like ophtho, derm, rads, path, rad onc and gas. Clerkship is like a liquor store; they keep the good stuff in the back, behind closed doors. [email protected]

What you're getting at with the end of your question is the thing that plagues people who actually want to do good. The people with good hearts, with good souls want to touch the lives of patients. To really cure disease, mend the wounded, and cure the sick. Too many people enter medical school with good intentions but are then met with hours upon hours of misery, the world closing around them, their relationships lost, their souls beaten. The response? "Man, i did really well... and for what? I hate patients, I have no friends, I lost my hobbies, and now I'm in debt. Do I really want to do family medicine?" BOOM the dermatologist is born. The REASON they went into medical school is no longer the REASON they want to do derm. They want a life. They want money. They did well enough to get it, so why not? [email protected]

Stop hovering to collapse...Click to collapse...Hover to expand...Click to expand...

5+ Year Member

He's not arguing that they're perfect.
He's arguing that they're more disposable.
A real humanitarian, that one.

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He better hope to God he gets into Radiology - the clinical specialties will destroy him. He'll be putting his life in danger quite a bit in those specialties.

Check out non-core rotations like ophtho, derm, rads, path, rad onc and gas. Clerkship is like a liquor store; they keep the good stuff in the back, behind closed doors. [email protected]

What you're getting at with the end of your question is the thing that plagues people who actually want to do good. The people with good hearts, with good souls want to touch the lives of patients. To really cure disease, mend the wounded, and cure the sick. Too many people enter medical school with good intentions but are then met with hours upon hours of misery, the world closing around them, their relationships lost, their souls beaten. The response? "Man, i did really well... and for what? I hate patients, I have no friends, I lost my hobbies, and now I'm in debt. Do I really want to do family medicine?" BOOM the dermatologist is born. The REASON they went into medical school is no longer the REASON they want to do derm. They want a life. They want money. They did well enough to get it, so why not? [email protected]

Stop hovering to collapse...Click to collapse...Hover to expand...Click to expand...

5+ Year Member

I meant more in the MS-3 required clerkships - Surgery, IM, maybe OB-Gyn

Check out non-core rotations like ophtho, derm, rads, path, rad onc and gas. Clerkship is like a liquor store; they keep the good stuff in the back, behind closed doors. [email protected]

What you're getting at with the end of your question is the thing that plagues people who actually want to do good. The people with good hearts, with good souls want to touch the lives of patients. To really cure disease, mend the wounded, and cure the sick. Too many people enter medical school with good intentions but are then met with hours upon hours of misery, the world closing around them, their relationships lost, their souls beaten. The response? "Man, i did really well... and for what? I hate patients, I have no friends, I lost my hobbies, and now I'm in debt. Do I really want to do family medicine?" BOOM the dermatologist is born. The REASON they went into medical school is no longer the REASON they want to do derm. They want a life. They want money. They did well enough to get it, so why not? [email protected]

Stop hovering to collapse...Click to collapse...Hover to expand...Click to expand...

Yes. Although quite expected when one graduates from med school when most traditional premeds are entering medical school.

Wow, MS-3 is going to hit you like a ton of bricks if you think medicine is analgous to a chef and his customers. I could totally see you as the med student on surgery refusing to help the resident with placing a central line on a patient who has HIV/Hep C. You seem to have a view of medicine from a very egocentric angle.

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Most of my actively bleeding patients lately have had Hep C. Of course, I am working a lot of nights in the ED...

OP, the doctors go into the hot zones because we have the knowledge and experience to diagnose and treat. In general, other members of the treatment team do not. If you send someone else who collects suboptimal data, your treatment will be suboptimal.

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