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I know who he is and

I could care less. You zealots treat these guys like rock stars or something; very strange. Anyway, I think my posts are full of coherent, intelligent statements. You may not like what I have to say, but they are concise arguments with good points that have yet to be rebutted. A look at your responses, however, reveals a myriad of problems, both in structure, logic and grammar. Now, regarding your latest pathetic attempt to insult me: don't worry about holding your breath for me; you don't need to. I will accept your unwillingness to address the issues I have outlined as an acceptance of defeat.

Manike

Really, you didn't even bother reading what I said, did you? My contention is not with the X-mag or its availability--I don't care! My problem lies with AGD's inability to supply much-sought-after upgrades! Congratulations in your proof of concept; you don't need to educate me on how advances are made or the trickle-down effect. I just want to be able to purchase those advancements when they finally reach the rest of us! You can build markers that will never see the hands of the average AOer until the cows come home, but please make sure that you have the upgrades we are clamoring for in stock!

Sorry

I didn't know that "attitude" had been added to the list of things to be censored. I thought this was a forum where people could express their opinions. If you look at my posts, that's all I've been doing. If anyone has been disrespectful, it has been some other members who-rather than engage me in intelligent debate-call me names. If you guys don't like what we have to say, then why host a forum?

ddinwdc, I take it you did read the rules where it says that no cussing is allowed? along with 'no disruptive behaviour' and flaming? Just in case you didn't here is a link http://www.automags.org/chat/forumfaq.shtml I believe that if the text is too small for you, you can change it under 'view -> text size -> large' to aid reading If you cuss at me again I won't even bother to read future posts of yours.

If I had to rebut every wrong post and opinion you have stated and keep, repeatedly, pointing out what you are missing, I would be spending more time on your opinions than they are worth in my opinion I'm not going to keep repeating myself or trying to shout louder than you are. I used to play those games with my sister when I was a kid and realise the futility of it.

This thread and others were started because of the wait for X-mags. Yes there are other issues with product which should be addressed. I'm not argueing against that. But when you said most people couldn't "care less about the X-mag" I thought it needed pointing out just how wrong you were, and why the X-mag is phenomenally important to the general market place, not this forum and those few people here clamouring for upgrades and parts. There is a much bigger and more important picture than the vocal few here who like to exercise their rights on a forum to whine and moan when they can't get something as quickly as they want.

Yes they should be listened to, to an extent, but they aren't as important as they would often like to think they are.

AGD is NOT going to survive simply by selling to the members of this forum. Something you alluded to in your first post here and that I agree with.

Re: I know who he is and

You're funny...

And I did address your issue.

Originally posted by ddinwdc I will accept your unwillingness to address the issues I have outlined as an acceptance of defeat.

BTW- In case you haven't realized, you're not making friends the way you are. I think it's time to re-examine your strategy here before Cphil or one of the other mods treats you to an extended AO vacation.

All I know is that the Xmag is what brought me back looking at AGD products again, and the LX bolt that kept me here.

A decade or so ago I was an AGD user and just didn't stay because of the paint-blender effect. I never looked back untill recently (thanks for the reintroduction, Manike)

Honestly, I heard about the xmag before I heard about the new bolt innovations. When I saw pictures of the Xmag, I started looking again at the AGD products and that's how I discovered teh LX bolt. (and it's integration in the Xmag).

I now have half a dozen AGD markers (compared to none, only a half a year ago, and contemplating the acqusition of more), and though none are my "primary" markers, this is/may be changing, and a decade of familiarity with other producs needs to becom overcome or not.

tom you shouldnt have to come on here and tell the masses why its taking so long. your LOYAL customers know the hold up and are willing to play with their emag until the xmag comes out.

dd ill respond to you quoting tom. when tom makes something, he wants to make something that is considered perfection. to do this takes time. unfortunately the ule parts are not the only thing agd works on. they are having problems getting the 4500 flatlines out. there are people out there who are in the same boat as you with the flatlines. they want it and have to wait. now tom can make them not wait but agd will be flooded by flatlines returning for being faulty. same with the ule bodies. do you honestly want something, or even the chance that there is wrong with your ule? if you do im sure tom can supply those ule's next week.

Re: Oh really?

Originally posted by ddinwdc Manike, you got to work on that comprehension problem of yours. The second sentance in Tom's post is (drum roll please):

"This is in response to to the many threads currently running about AGD's ablility to deliver product."

Actually... This is the very FIRST sentence in Tom's post. The subject of which is, to borrow your line (drum roll please...) The wait on X-Mags. Tom used the other products to prove his point on this subject and you used them to start your tirade. And we won't discuss your grammatical and spelling errors.

As a personal note.... Were you my customer, I would tell you to take your business elsewhere since you are obviously unhappy with anything that happens here.

Rebel

Why don't you address my "grammatical errors"? I would thoroughly enjoy watching you try. As for Manike, if there is so much interest in the X-mag, then why -- according to Tom -- aren’t they selling? But I digress, because I'm not even arguing with you about that issue. I told you, I don't care how many super-special, secret-club, limited-edition mags you build--just sure you can deliver the other products in a timely fashion and in adequate quantities. I completely agree that AGD should be designing for non-mag users. That is why it perplexes me that they have limited advertising and use this forum as the primary gauge for market demand and product design. And finally, I didn't cuss at you, I called you a name, something that others have done to me many times here. It was uncalled for and I removed it the second I posted it(without any passive-aggressive mention of an edit, Wang). As for "disruptive behavior", I fail to see how expressing an opinion could be viewed as being disruptive. These things get ugly when OTHERS start attacking me for my views. I am simply defending my position.

As for passive-aggressive... I'm not the one who comes out calling people "tough guy," wanting somebody's phone # just so he can get owned in person, and being a general nuisance.

I think Freud himself would say "You have issues."

I'm done. No more. (And don't think of my silence as a victory on your part. We know how you get confused with that.) The fact that you insult friends of mine (Manike) is proof that you aren't worth any more of my time. Keep this attitude on AO up and you won't be on AO much longer.

Originally posted by ddinwdc (without any passive-aggressive mention of an edit, Wang).

I will

use whatever words I like, sir. But really, is all this minutia necessary? I simply stated my point in a discussion that I did not start on a thread I did not author. Why all the hostility towards one person's opinion? Its not like I come on here and start threads with titles like "AGD sucks" or "'Cockers rule". I come here for information and, when prompted, give an opinion. I am a loyal AGD customer who has purchased thousands of dollars of goods from them. If I complain, its because I care. You people complain about PBNation, but I must admit I have never once been flamed on that board and have never recieved the kind of personal vitriol that I do here. Maybe its not them, maybe its you.

Re: I will

It's the way you treat other people we have problems with. Not your opinions.

Originally posted by ddinwdc use whatever words I like, sir. But really, is all this minutia necessary? I simply stated my point in a discussion that I did not start on a thread I did not author. Why all the hostility towards one person's opinion? Its not like I come on here and start threads with titles like "AGD sucks" or "'Cockers rule". I come here for information and, when prompted, give an opinion. I am a loyal AGD customer who has purchased thousands of dollars of goods from them. If I complain, its because I care. You people complain about PBNation, but I must admit I have never once been flamed on that board and have never recieved the kind of personal vitriol that I do here. Maybe its not them, maybe its you.

Why don't we just go out and play with what we currently have and when it comes out.. then get one. Its not like your current gun is a piece of doo doo otherwise you wouldn't of bought one in the first place.

AGD are nice enough to let us know the future of what's to become of AGD... like rumors of what's up with X-mag and roller triggers etc for us forum readers to have an idea of what's to be of AGD. Look at all the other companies... they plan their project and wouldn't give anyone any ideas of what to become of it at all till it is finalized. Maybe its a mistake that AGD is being too friendly with their loyal customers on the forum by giving them more information then is needed.

I really like AGD.. they give us an oportunity to adjust their product before it comes out.. new ideas incorporated.. etc. how many other companies does that?

I personally went out and got myself an Angel Speed.. and when the X-mag comes out.. I either 1) sell my angel and buy and X-mag .. or 2) I keep them both

cheers.. and lighten up guys.. no need to point aggression at each other time will fly .. and we'll all be discussing about the X2-mag later on.

Re: AGD's Reply to the Wait on Xmags (long)

Originally posted by AGD
Some facts about the xmags, we are currently 300 on backorder and its not going up. This is not a big backorder by any standards. We have 500 machined bodies in the pipeline right now. This is a prudent number in process for this level of backorders considering its such an expensive product. While AO has been complaining, there have been multiple dealers that have had these guns sitting on the wall and not selling. Adventure Games NH had the first 9 to come off the assembly line with no preorders. She wanted to cut it back to two but I told her to come to the AO dealers section and sell them. She did and got no takers in the auction she set up, she only took two. More were sitting at Predator Marketing in CA for weeks until an AO guy found them and bought them. This is even after I made a personal appearance out there to show them the marker and get them charged about it. Fox River Games home of our sponsored team Swarm had them sitting on the wall for weeks until AO found them there too.

I haven`t read through all the pages in this thread so someone might have said this before.

There`s currently a CnC X-mag beeing delivered to me and I never would have bought it unless I had stumbled upon this place.
Before I started to visit this place I and everyone around me believed that mags was a thing of the past, nothing new happening with them. They would chop, have a slow bps and just suck...

I started reading because I wanted to know what all these people were still doing here if the marker that the company made sucked. I read, and I read and some beliefs I found to be true.
Then along comes a thread and pictures of the X-mag (or as extreme as it was called then).
I saw some videos of bps and the level10, needless to say, my jaw dropped to the floor...
I was all over it in a second the marker had all I wanted.
However the people around me "harass" me for buying one because they still believe that mags are a thing of the past.

I have seen the light only because I stumbled upon this forum, if I hadn`t I would still have used my Adrenalin Impulse and be happy with it.
The reason I see why those x-mags were hanging on shelves is that you don`t spend enough money on commercials.
Send a X-mag to PGI for review and see a rise in demand. Because I know they`ll love it.

Bring your products to the people, don`t expect the people to come to you.

(I haven`t read through this to check for errors, I got a fever and a sore throat.)

My gosh, your posts are clearly avoiding what manike and everyone else is saying. You bring up other people's flaws but you don't address their arguements. It's like you're pulling a WAS. Yeah, WAS has cleaned up more but you pulled one. You dance around the topic. As manike and others said... AGD is basically playing it smart and safe by putting out minimal to ensure sales. If you make surplus, you lose money... If you make too much surplus, you go bankrupt. If you screw up like that again, bye bye company.

Think about it, stupid.

Oh, and BTW...
Stop using a dictionary and thesarus to make yourself seem smarter than you are. You seemed to suddenly advance your vocabulary in about... 3 posts.

Footemps

"Advance my vocabulary"? Since I don't use a dictionary when composing posts for an obscure forum, I will take that as a backhanded compliment. In fact, I have addressed that argument. I'm not going to do it again, because I am sick of repeating myself for people who either don't bother to read my posts or are incapable of comprehending them. So, instead of calling me names, why don't you read what I have written? You're not the only one who nihongo ga wakarimasu. Think about that, baka gaijin. Tonari No Totoro? What are you, a child?

yeah... so I'm now a baka gaijin... Might as well go a step further and call me ahou. Sheesh... I don't really care if you call me a gaijin since I already know I'm not Japanese. I just like studio Ghibli, that's why I used their totoro logo. If you don't like my taste in Japanese animation, I don't mind. It's only my preference.

I've also noticed that you've been talking circles around the subject. From what I've read, you've been complaining about AGD's incapability to keep up with demand.

Wait a sec, I think I'll take your advice and reread your whole little diddy against manike and co. again. Wow, I didn't even realize it goes back even further... I keep going once I reread and this time I'll take notes...

...
...
...

Done! Okay, I see that I precieved correctly on your agrument that AGD is incapable of keeping up with demand for products. The problem with discontinuing the xmag is that it shows that AGD doesn't care enough to keep a good product going. You see, the xmag isn't really there for big sales, it's supposed to be the f1 of paintball markers. It's there to show the power of AGD and it was used to further develop other products such as ULE. It's not a matter of keeping the xmag alive to get sales. It's very sales inefficient actually, AGD makes little profit on it. They make it for the sake of it being the best.

Don't say I'm calling you names either, you've been doing it a lot more than I have. You just happened to push me over the edge with your "I think I know better than the president of a company and the designer of the C&C mill scheme" attitude. Yes, you did make a good reccomendation at first but you didn't realize that if AGD discontinued the xmag, a hell of a lot of people would get mad at AGD and head somewhere else for that "top marker". The ULE Emag doesn't fill the "top of the world" description like the xmag does. Once AGD drops the xmag, a whole flock of people hoping for an xmag would run somewhere else and never consider anything else AGD. You said that the xmag would get people in the door but you didn't consider the people who would only want the xmag and nothing else.

(Your analogy with the toyotas and sports cars is a bit flawed too. You said that the xmag is the sports car that gets people in the door. The ULE isn't a minivan fyi. It's probably the next most expensive sports car on the lot. Then everything else would fit as the SUV/Minivan/Sedan category.)

Your idea is pretty good, I'll give you that... but your presentation sucked. You made it seem like an attack at the xmag and then you got all defensive about your idea. I can see you're pretty passionate about the ULE's but AGD needs a powerhouse to keep new people coming in.

Edit: I forgot to mention that I am a child... Well, not technically a child... A teenager to be precise. Still, I can see your standpoint but I think you screwed up on getting your point across.

Re: Re: AGD's Reply to the Wait on Xmags (long)

Originally posted by Vegard There`s currently a CnC X-mag beeing delivered to me and I never would have bought it unless I had stumbled upon this place.
Before I started to visit this place I and everyone around me believed that mags was a thing of the past, nothing new happening with them. They would chop, have a slow bps and just suck...

I started reading because I wanted to know what all these people were still doing here if the marker that the company made sucked. I read, and I read and some beliefs I found to be true.
Then along comes a thread and pictures of the X-mag (or as extreme as it was called then).

I saw some videos of bps and the level10, needless to say, my jaw dropped to the floor...
I was all over it in a second the marker had all I wanted.
However the people around me "harass" me for buying one because they still believe that mags are a thing of the past.

I have seen the light only because I stumbled upon this forum, if I hadn`t I would still have used my Adrenalin Impulse and be happy with it.

-Vegard

Welcome to the fold brother. Glad to have you here. Hope you feel better. I know you will when that X Mag arrives!

People this is the testament to the interplay between this site and the believers that come of it. But its the story between he tells that is the deciding factors in marketing in the US. Look closely at that opposing factors he delt with making his choice. He stepped up in spite of what "others" said. How many others out there can be so brave? That is the gamble that Tom plays... every day...