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The ACT! Team Runs Away From Zuhdi Jasser Debate

Today I received the following email from ACT! for America, it’s about the so called Muslim Zuhdi Jasser.

A Muslim supports Rep. Peter King

Dear Christopher,

In his New York Post commentary below, Dr. Zuhdi Jasser continues his courageous call for Muslim reform, including support for Rep. Peter King’s announcement that he will hold congressional hearings to address the issue of Islamic radicalization.

Dr. Jasser is at odds with Muslim Brotherhood-connected organizations like CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations) and ISNA (Islamic Society of North America), as well as Rep. Keith Ellison, a Muslim who has denounced Rep. King’s call for such hearings.

How ridiculous. Jasser can call himself whatever he wants, but he is no Muslim. The reason being is because to deny even one Koran verse is to apostate from Islam. This is besides the fact that he speaks out of both sides of his mouth.

Thank you for your email. It takes a deeper understanding of Islam than what you may see on the surface in order understand as we do why and how Dr. Jasser practices a moderate form of Islam. Dr. Jasser proposes that The Gates of Ishtihad be re-opened and re-examined. This would, in Islam provide for the revisiting of many of the radical tenants of their faith. So yes, we are friends of Dr. Jasser and while he has a huge (and some may say insurmountable) uphill battle within his own faith he is not backing down and he is putting his life on the line in doing so.

I hope this has helped to shed some light on why we are good friends with Dr. Jasser and support his work.

Best Regards,
-The ACT! for America Team

In return…

I have a deep understanding of Islam (anytime you want to debate the scriptures just let me know), and if you did you would know he is not a Muslim. I also know that Jasser has no real Muslim following or authority in the Islamic world. By promoting him your organization is spreading false hope, as most Americans want to believe that the problem will resolve itself. It will not. With him you are only wasting time, and of course you did not even begin to address my article about him, or his belief that Israel is “occupied territory”. He also does not lay the blame on Islam, and Islam is the problem.

Chris

The reason I say Jasser is no Muslim, is because Islamic Law states that he is not.

From the Reliance of the Traveller
ACTS THAT ENTAIL LEAVING ISLAM

(7) to deny any verse of the Koran or anything which by scholarly consensus belongs to it, or do add a verse that does not belong to it;

As far as the The Gates of Ishtihad go, the Sunni’s (which most Muslims are) closed them centuries ago. Besides that, the Koran states that no one can change the word’s of Allah.

Koran verse 010.064
YUSUFALI: For them are glad tidings, in the life of the present and in the Hereafter; no change can there be in the words of Allah. This is indeed the supreme felicity.

The Koran also states that Mohammad was the last of the prophets. It is called the Seal of the Prophets.

Koran verse 033.040
YUSUFALI: Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.

I would like to see how Jasser is going to get around all of that. I also would like ACT! or anyone else who thinks he is going to save the day, to name just one US Mosque that supports him. Here is were Act! ran to the hills.

Your blog article is a hit piece and after reading it I chose not to respond to your claims as it is clear you are not interested in learning more about Dr. Jasser. Nothing we say or write will change your mind and you have made it clear. We have other obligations and simply cannot spend more time on your claims.

Best Regards,
-The ACT! for America Team

In other words, they have no real answers. Here is the final email in the exchange.

From: “Christopher Logan”
To: “ACT! for America”

My blog article has quotes from Jasser in it. Quotes which you obviously do not want to address. You have not refuted a thing I said, and have to chosen to run away from the debate. Congrats!

Christopher, I remember your recent article on Jasser. I remember taking note that you were one of few that questioned him. But I do not remember if in that article, you spoke of sending a communique directly to him? Have you? Has he answered it?

Christopher, I also got the report from ACT! and I wrote the following to Jasser. He has not replied as of yet.

M. Zuhdi Jasser,

You call yourself a Muslim but how is it you are not in favor of seeking first the
Kingdom of Allah and His righteousness? That means you are a nominal Muslim, doesn’t it?

I am all in favor of Muslims being able to practice their religion quietly and
peacefully, but when Islam is designed to be a total system that is contrary to every
other system, there will not be any peace for Muslims until they dominate and suppress
all others. For that reason, I think that it is not possible for Islam to coexist
peacefully in a democratic, Christian or Jewish or Hindu country.

I think that he can be as dangerous as what the useful idiots call ‘moderate’ moslems. He is on the ‘hit list’ of many moslems. But it gives a false sense of security if even his type of islam continues. Too many parts of sharia and the koran just leave open for people to become radicalized.

Jassar does not have any power, or political power, in islam to change one darn thing.

My question is, ‘how can he still believe in islam if he wants to change it?’. islam IS jihad – it is mohammed worship and mohammed was one of the most despicable people of history.

I can see he, and people like him, create another sect in islam. But even the so called ‘peaceful’ sects of islam wage jihad – they just don’t do it violently and they don’t do anything to stop the violence in islam either. The end is still the same for us if they do it with or without violence.

AND they are treated as apostates and killed if they don’t accept the ‘true’ islam of whomever is persecuting/killing them that day. Even the Shia and Sunni don’t think each other are ‘moslem enough’ so wage their eternal war.

I think that Act for America is thinking that we need people like Jassar on our side. I agree – somewhat. He has done good for us with that DVD and other things. But I always circle back to what I stated above so in the end – do I trust him? … not really. Or more like I don’t trust his kids or his future generations to become just as radicalized as the ‘moderate’ and violent jihadists that we are dealing with now.

Hey jackass, learn to spell fantasy. I’m a moderate Muslim and very loyal and patriotic American who took an oath to defend this country, my country, against all enemies, forein and domestic. Stop watching so much Fox News and actually do some real in depth research and talk to real Muslims, and have something truly insightful to say – not something you’ve regurgitated from your homies Beck, Limbaugh, or Hannity.

I don’t even watch FOX News (unless someone alerts me to a video) and I have spoken to plenty of Muslims. It is impossible for a Muslim to be loyal to Sharia and America. Do you condemn Sharia Law? Let me know when you want to debate the Islamic scriptures which call for the dominance of non-Muslims.

Loyal and patriotic to what?
TO WHAT?
You took an oath not to defend the country, but to defend the constitution.
Why are you surprised that a good number here don’t watch Fox, Hannity, Beck et al?
We were not talked into our opinions.
We studied Islam, compared it to Western civilization and the development of institutions, and found it to be an existential threat to the West.

In 1930, there were many “moderate” Italians. It made no difference.
In 1933, there were a lot of moderate Germans.
It made no difference.
In 1941, there were a lot of moderate Japanese.
It made no difference.
The Axis was trying to conquer the world. They were defeated.
So perhaps there are moderate Muslims.
It makes no difference– Islam kills, tortures, humiliates and despoils EVERY SINGLE DAY.

He may not be able to spell fantasy but you can’t spell foreign. You also can’t tell an enemy of America if you tried. Start out by looking in a mirror. You say you took an oath to defend this country yet here you are not only supporting an enemy of this nation but you say you are one of them by saying you are a muslim. Or are you a muslim in name only? Do you really know what it means to be a muslim? Do you really know what it means to an American Soldier?

btw, I did “do some real in depth research and talk to real Muslims” as well as read the koran. Have you?

best question yet – what is ACT? They claim 150,000 members, but they are all so quiet and ‘under the radar’ (in their own words). What we need is to get out more and have a public voice. Protests, blogs like Chris’, visible in your face action. But America has become a nation of cowards. If we keep going like this, we will become like Europe, and what world do we leave for our grandchildren?
standupamericanow.org !

Yeah, there are not enough of them in the UK. I think that the people in the UK depend on a very few to carry the load, or else there are just too many that are either afraid or too darn lazy, or really ignorant of what islam is and what they are going to be condemning their children and their future, to.

moslem’s ‘smooth talk’, bribes, bulling, etc is aim for not only political leaders, but religious leaders and the educational system too. And moslems depend on those ‘leaders’ to sell their people out and they depend on their ‘useful idiots’.

Thank you all for the information regarding who and what ACT is. Personally I think that I will continue to demonstrate with, support and stand the ground with my fellow members and friends of the EDL.

You may need to call them something else as there’s already a Welsh Defence League.

AN AMERICAN

January 5, 2011 at 4:00 am

I too, have written Mr.Jasser and have received no response. So all I can say is don’t hold your breath.

I can see Dr. Jasser point but I think he is like a two sided coin:One side is devotion to Islam and the other side he is trying to appease non Muslims. An impossible task since Islam does not allow any margin of appeasement.

The big question about Mr. Jasser is he being sincere or is he practicing TAQIYYA.

Here’s the problem. ACT does a great job, I’ve been to some of there meetings and every member knows the threat of Islam. What ACT can’t do as a national organisation is go after Muslims in fear of being considered a hate group and then lose any cred they might have in the PC, MC world. They have to move carefully. But here lies the problem some day they will have to have the come to Jesus meeting and call Islam and its followers what it really is. I believe that the real TAQIYYA is how ACT is doing their job and it’s great. Chris, I believe you are 100% correct in your assesment and Western Civ. will have to see it your way or it’s over but for now ACT is working to educate the super sensitive one baby step at a time. thanks for your work and keep up the fight..elmore

Yeah, I agree. Act’s volunteers have been donating enough to get a lobbyist in Washington D.C since 2009. They are working on getting about 25 or so spots on TV to inform the public. And we have done many other things in our cities around the USA. One was, in California we led up the movement to get UCIrvine to hold the MSU accountable for their totally bad behavior. We also have tried (I can only speak for California now) to get the other UC campuses to put a halt to the growing anti-semitism which the MSA and their useful idiots, are festering. One campus that had the divestiture issue was UCBerkeley.

What our ‘stuck on stupid’ state couldn’t seem to pull off (thanks to all of the citizens who voted these morons back into office!) was to straighten out what is taught in our schools. I have told parents what they need to do and they solve the situation for their kid(s) but they don’t solve it state-wide.

We have a growing awareness of what islam is due to Act for America. I was the only one in my county for several years and it has grown to 3 Chapters in my county alone and many more in other counties surrounding me.

You are right ACT! does get the word out, I just want people to face the reality that “moderate” Muslims are not the answer. A perfect example is Daniel Pipes. He has talking about the so called moderates for probably a decade. So where are they? How much longer are we supposed to wait? My main point is besides getting the word out, we need leaders with real answers, and not just wishful thinking. The Netherlands Geert Wilders is one of them. As he wants to end all Muslim immigration, and Mosque construction.

Chris,Islam can only be moderate to the extent that the follower is either disobedient or indifferent to its texts and doctrines and that’s in a nut shell but trying to get the PC and MC to see this is going to be impossible.. way to get people fired up..elmore

What we need to do is stop alienating people also. Stop this bickering about gays/straights, Jews/Christians, blacks/whites, etc. And Christians (I am one and therefore I do know what the heck I am talking about) need to stop their junk. They, with their words, start this ‘you are condemned’ junk just like the moslems do. Although the moslems are much more violent in their accusations, the Christians are just as off putting. And I am talking about them in relation to non-moslems such as the gays, etc.

But back to the UK AND the EU. They need to get off their lazy behinds and start doing something and stop letting the minority take care of the problems. Or else they are going to see what happens in Lebanon, Africa, etc soon. And it ain’t pretty. It isn’t pretty now with moslems claiming their enclaves as dar al islam.

And I have heard more often than I can count how I am the problem and they bring up their ‘I know a moslem blah blah blah’. Those moslems they know will do exactly NOTHING to help them when their violent jihadists attack. In fact they fund them with their zakat, and give them moral support by their silence and/or smooth talk.

Christopher, I agree with you completely. Jassar has had plenty of exposure over the years, yet I’ve heard of no call for jihad, other threats or even ‘moderate’ outrage from his cohorts. I always suspected that he was a CAIR plant.

I agree with Chris also, but by using Jassar and having him do what he is trying to do is just more prof that it can’t be changed. Jassar only makes the case that there must be change and Muslims are not doing it. If I heared this for the first time, that there was a Muslim saying there needs to be change that’s much more compeling then hearing Clinton, Bush, Obama, Reed and all interfaith talkers goes on that Islam is religon of peace. In the end Jassar fails but, in the mean time, he does more to educate the masses to a problem then the harm he does by the lies that politicans and PC’s blindly tell us. elmore

I agree with what you are saying Michael. As I believe he has done positive things by illustrating the very real threat of Islam and its goal. His calling for change is admirable and his flick was raw and compelling. He may not denounce every aspect we would want to be defined as unacceptable but he is the closest we got to a moderate Muslim. If you listen to Bridget Gabriel she would tell you he does live under threat and I believe Mrs. Gabriel to be a trusted and powerful ally in defying the bastards.
I must admit after watching the closing of the Third Jihad I was left scratching my head as he declared his Muslim faith. It left me questioning what I just watched and his message. Then I wondered if it was something that had to be said so he was seen by Muslims as not one who left Islam and could rally other the unicorns (lol).
I certainly never want to hear the trash about Israel being occupied territory. Someone needs to cut this crap out and hold those that allowed the false notion that Palestine had any right to claim anything but Jordan the land of the Palestinian people.
I do think Act has made strides in spreading the word of Islamic brutality and savagery. We need more groups like it to strengthen the fight. I have learned a great deal from our brothers and sisters across the pond in the EDL and give them props daily for inspiration. Without any insular government support ( in actuality the EDL are faced with a gov’t which chooses to vilify and criminalize the rational outrage of the people) the citizens of the EDL continue to resist. It is a beautiful thing. As the EDL is the first formidable adversary that the Islamic menace has faced. The EDL has waged a powerful resistance and their success is our success. Their fight will significantly impact the survival of the western culture.
Chris keep up the great work. Love your site. Keep on kickin’ ass!

Many criticize the size of the EDL movement. But it has grown and continues to grow. Much more pertinent for me is the fact that EDL are loud and clear enough that people hear them. As a member I am proud of the EDL. They are organised and vocal and are defending my freedoms and those of my children.

It is a hopeless case to say that you are going to save your reputation, and somehow still go after Islam. If you stick your neck out, you will be attacked from all directions. What is the option then? We have to work together.

Why will so few take advantage of the offer from Dr Terry Jones to work with the and fight this force together? We at Dove are none of what many say – not homophobic, not racist, not zionist, not bigots, not anti-Muslim. We are pro-freedom of speech, pro-human rights.

Our biggest supporters are The Truth TV – mostly Middle Eastern Christians. Why? They are the ones getting blown up. Their families are dying, being persecuted, and they have no choice but to get bolder, not run and hide. People simply won’t work with Dove and The Truth TV because they saw how attacked we were, how mocked we are. The reason? We are a force that Islam is afraid of.

But the truth is still the truth, and we are not going away. Most on this forum are right – we have to work together and stop attacking each other. Or maybe we are trying to save our own little kingdoms, so carefully built. They are all going to fall if we don’t get over our fear.

The Orthodox denominations are truly on the front lines. We must all remember this every single day; we can learn much from their argumentation.
The Melkite Patriarch is a dhimmi.
But Pope Shenouda III stands quite firm. That is why he is in exile. When the five people under him were forced by corrupt secular and Islamic authorities to choose another Patriarch for the Coptic seat in Alexandria, they refused to do so.
That is the strength that should inspire us all.

Quote:
How ridiculous. Jasser can call himself whatever he wants, but he is no Muslim.
end quote.

I think Dr. Jasser is a Muslim, but I don’t think he supports the ummah.
He senses his community, unassimilated, untransformed, has no future in the West, and he’s trying to cling to his religion.
Maybe he has an interpretation of it that we don’t know about?
Either way, Dr. Jasser has to find the time to articulate his vision. We won’t know anything until he does.
Still, we understand that there is a deep and wide gulf between the society, legal system and polity Islam dictates and how these things are understood in the West.
For a Muslim, to make peace is to force surrender.
In the West, all commitments made under duress are invalid.
Do you see the problem?

One of the great strengths of Western reason is that we don’t understand things in black and white terms.
If anything, black and white thinking is viewed as obscuring rather than clarifying the truth. It is because of careful reasoning that we can understand the differences between Islam and our culture.
Now that Islam is closer, let’s not drop the ball.

As a member of ACT and a supporter of both Loganswarning and Dr.Jasser’s American Islamic Forum for Democracy, I have to take issue with the entire theme of this thread. I challenged Dr. Jasser on his statement that he would have problems with former Muslims serving as anti-terrorism instructors, and he responded with a long, well-reasoned clarification of his position. Simply put, he said that to have ONLY former Muslims teaching about Islamic ideology would be ill-advised. On this point I would have to agree. For example, could a Hindu give a better explanation of what Christians believe than a Christian?

Dr. Jasser also stated that having presentations on Islam by ONLY Muslim Brotherhood types (like CAIR) would also be ill-advised. He believes that there is such a wide range of views on Islam, that one single source for information can lead to serious distortions in a training environment. I have to agree with him on that. (Continued below.)

With all due respect, I usual agree with you, but not here. How do you know he didn’t lie to you? The man clearly talks out of both sides of his mouth, as he speaks out against organizations like CAIR, but stands up for Islam itself.

But “to indict a whole system for using some people who hate or fear Islam,” he said, was “wrong.”

How do you know he is not lying to you? He is known for his double talk, and for ducking questions like how many Muslims supporters he actually has.

UPDATE: Bear this in mind: Zuhdi Jasser made a last minute effort to quash Geert Wilders’ appearance on Capitol Hill under the aegis of Senator Kyl, calling Kyl’s office the morning of the day Wilders was supposed to appear stating another Jasser LIE — that while Jasser had been in The Netherlands Wilders refused to meet with Jasser because Wilders quote “doesn’t meet with Muslims”. THAT NEVER HAPPENED.

As a resident of the West, isn’t Jasser entitled to his own interpretation of his religion, provided he hurts no one?
What kind of Christianity is a Christian entitled to?
What kind of Buddhism?
What kind of Hinduism?
The issue here is individualism, and if you don’t believe in it, then you subscribe not to the West.

Therefore, while I find it useful to augment our knowledge of Islam by recourse to sources straight from the camel’s mouth (so to speak), this would not be inviting Muslims to “teach” us — at least not if we mean that word seriously and sincerely — but simply getting damning information out of Muslims about Islam (which is difficult but not impossible to extract from between the lines of taqiyya dawa, supplemented by more candid formulations by Muslims when communicating to fellow Muslims).

(Continued) Some people who oppose the Islamist agenda would seem to want to simply ban Islam outright, as Nazism was banned in Germany. With 1.4 billion Muslims, that isn’t realistic. However, efforts to reform Islam and restore the Mu’tazilite rationality to the ideology that existed during the “Golden Age” of Islam has great prospects. Dr. Jasser and others could pry open the door to ijtihad. The Christian Church was reformed by an insider, Martin Luther. Ironically, Luther pushed the Church back to the original concepts of faith, whereas Mu’tazilite movements push the ideology away from the salafist irrational blind faith and militant intolerance.

So, rather than throwing Dr. Jasser under the bus, we should support his alternate and moderate views of Islam. We can still have issues with him (Luther was an anti-semite, too), but he and other moderate Muslims are the best hope we have to reform the Islamic ideology and rid it of its political and shariah baggage.

To say Dr. Jasser isn’t a Muslim (using Reliance of the Traveller) is like saying Billy Graham isn’t a Christian using Catholic orthodoxy.

I am not calling for Islam to be banned, but if it was banned in America, Muslims would still be able to practice it in Islamic countries. You say the effort to reform has great projects. Please back that up with some facts. You also say Jasser could pry that door open. Please name just one Mosque that supports him, and let me know which Islamic organizations will follow his lead. Will it be Al-Azhar, the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, Hezbollah, ICNA, MAS,……I could go on and on. He has no real Muslim support or respect from Muslims. He was thrown out of an Arizona Mosque, and even had a cartoon of his face on a dog drawn in a Muslim publication. Would you like me to show you some quotes off some Islamic sites about him? On top of that why is he latching onto non-Muslims. Why isn’t he out giving speeches in Mosques? What other “moderate” Muslims? Please point out a major anti-Sharia movement in the West, that is lead by Muslims.

You quote Reliance of Traveller all the time, but now you try and discredit it, in your effort to see what you want to see here. Do you know more about Islam than Al-Azhar? Face it Chris, the line of thinking that “moderate” Muslims are the answer is a proven failure. The UK tried it, and they are being devoured by Islam. Sorry, we have limited amount of time and I will not spend any of it promoting Jasser, or the “moderate” Muslims are the answer falsehood.

How do I know Dr. Jasser isn’t lying to me? I engage in ideological debates with Muslims every week. Most of these exchanges end up with the Muslims accusing me of taking some verse from the Quran “out of context” or they make personal attacks. Dr. Jasser has corresponded with me on a number of times with rational and well-supported dialogue. If you can tell a tree by its fruit, this Muslim has been relatively straight with me. Yes, he has some views with which I don’t agree, but he’s the best moderate we have to work with. Muslims are very political, and perhaps as Dr. Jasser speaks more and more for Islam, even the Muslims will follow his lead. Name another Muslim who is more reasonable and credible.

Chris, you or I do not get to dictate who is a Muslim or not. Islamic Law does, and he gets no respect from the Muslim community. You also missed my point, he does not want the blame to lay on Islam. When we both know Islam is the problem. Sorry Chris, you do what you think is best, but I will not promote him or the the belief that “moderates” are the answer.

A great book on the positive prospects of the Mu’tazilite view of Islam can be found in “The Closing of the Muslim Mind” by Robert Reilly. The House of Wisdom was established by al-Ma’mum in 830, and it was presided over by Al-Kindi, who said, “Nothing should be dearer to the seeker after truth than truth itself.” He achieved harmony between reason and the Quran by giving an allegorical interpretation to any passage the seemed to contradict reason. This lasted for about two decades, but forces opposed to reason eventually got the upper hand. Today the backwardness and unreasonableness of Islam is becoming more and more apparent.

Regarding using the Reliance of the Traveller, it is valid for opposing Islamists. Since Dr. Jasser is against political Islam and Sharia Law, using it as a test of HIS religious credentials is not reasonable.

You can’t be a moderate muslim and be a muslim. It’s apostasy, or taqiyya undercover. Does Jasser agree the Koran is unmodifiable, perfect? If yes, he is a Muslim, if no, he is not. So he answers yes, now cite any old verse about murdering the infidel, and what do you get? taqiya.

I have some questions for Jasser? Do you pray 5 times a day, if not how many times a day? Do you prostrate? How often do you go to mosque? Which mosque (if you have one after being booted from one per above?) Let’s bring together Jasser and 4 other muslims at his ‘mosque’ that agree with him and discuss? Do you fast? Do you attend Friday prayers? Do you go to mosques in cities you visit? Lots of questions, and lots of silence.

I think ACT does great things, but this moderate muslim path is a dead end and a waste of time and just leads to confusion with ACT members who are starting to ‘get it’ then along comes Jasser, seems like a nice fella….la la la.

What the CAIR and other Muslim organizations are truly fearful of is that everyday American’s are beginning to understand what ‘Sharia Law’ is all about and the goal of global jihad. There is cunning and mass hatred in the Koran and western civilization better take steps to stop it. Just look at the numbers of hate crimes against Jews and Christians in Europe and the breathtaking growth of Muslim population in the last 5 years. No comparison to the whining of Muslims that Islamaphobia is growing…The reality of this will take one’s breath away…Libyan Leader Mu’ammar Al-Qadhafi was quoted several years ago as saying: “We have 50 million Muslims in Europe. There are signs that Allah will grant Islam victory in Europe—without swords, without guns, without conquest—will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades.”
This can happen in the US if we allow ourselves to be intimidated by Muslim bullies and ‘spin meisters’ and continue to allow open immigration of Muslims who really do not want to follow our laws…We need our representatives, like Peter King, to be supported so they will not feel the pressure from the PC crowd that will call them bigots and racists…Chris…keep up the great work!

Yes, you are right. I’m glad many Americans are beginning to wake up, but we still have too many that would rather watch American Idol that come to a meeting to hear about the dangers of encroaching Islam. Muslims are moving into smaller communities and appear peaceful, quiet, even fearful….and we stupid Americans fall all over ourselves trying to placate them. I regret that Act! muddies the waters by accommodating this so-called “moderate” Muslim. The man would have to throw out huge chunks of his “holy” book (all the violent parts) and what would he have left, but a bunch of Bible stories and Judeo-Christian principles — all scrambled up and misleading, of course! None of this makes no sense to me: why he would pretend to be Muslim, or pretend to be a moderate, or that ACT would support him.

The fearful mien Muslims wear tells us much about the relationship between fear and pride.
If you see someone mask their feelings with bravado or an excessive show of pride, you can bet a good dollar that they’re probably afraid.
And if someone affects fear, you can certainly bet that underneath is tremendous arrogance.

As to the moderation of Islam, nothing could speak to this more than the actions of muslims – not their words. The day we see a the Imams of islam abrogate sharia, the muslim people bring their “extremists” to a court of law for justice, immigrate to a country leaving halal and dawah behind, the complete repudiation of Hammadmo’s lifestyle and teachings, maybe then we have something to start looking at. But so far even those who make some of these claims are devoid of any real defining action. They could easily start in their own countries, they would go along way by cleaning house. The prosecution of any representative terrorist group could make a good start. But 1400 years of islam or death, does not bring a lot of hope.

Whether Jasser is a muslim by definition or not is a moot point. The most irrational approach to the problem of radical Islam is to believe that America will just get fed up, pull out all the stops, stand up to Islam and that will solve it. If this were possible, it would’ve already happened. This will never happen while Americans see no difference between political and religious Islam. What matters here is America’s perception of such a separation – not whether or not the tenets of Islam allow such a thing! – but whether or not Americans feel that Isalm has good guys and bad guys. The only possible solution is that Islam evolve into a mosque/state separation (good vs bad in politically correct American minds)and then – and only then – will Americans support standing against the political Islamists. Anyone working towards building that perception is doing a good thing – not ‘giving false hope’.

It is not a moot point. Because if he is not considered a Muslim, he will not get a Muslim following. America is just waking up to the threat of Islam, and we are not going to rollover and play dead. Jasser is spreading false hope because the Muslim community does not care what he has to say. Now why don’t you name just one US Mosque that supports him? Then let me know what credentials he has, that he is going to reform Islam. The West is falling to Islam, and you want to continue with a policy that is a proven failure. Good thinking…

Well said admin. This man Dr Jasser has proved his lack of validity by the way he lied about Geert Wilders,speaks volumes about Dr Jassers integrity. He is a moslem and as such he cannot change the quran,( the word of allah). If he thinks he can modify the quran, moslems will deal to him. moslems will think this is their duty, to protect islam! Europe is pretty bad now and Britain in dire straights. Mr Wilders and the EDL are the only outspoken advocates for the western way of life in Europe. I am a supporter of Act for America, but it goes against all I have learnd about islam to support Dr Jasser.

I really surprises me that MEMRITV.com isn’t ever mentioned in these “debates” because, there, the proof of the pudding is irrefutable. The crazy, wingnut, illogical and blatantly false beliefs of the goofier muz are put on display in their own words. Every now an then, I cruise through some of the vids they publish there for a few laughs. A couple of times I even saw vids in which muz stated that islam is a dead end….as I believe. The desperate, hysterical reaction to slights, real and imagined, to islam tell a story too. They know they are stupid and wrong, at least the smarter leaders do, and the inane crap they put out is so obviously directed at the most ignorant people on the planet that it amazes me.

While I agree with Chris about Jasser, let’s not throw the baby out with the bathwater. ACT is a good organization, just as SIOA and Logan’s Warning and others who fight the encroachment of the totalitarianism of Islam. We shouldn’t start fighting each other but instead, realize that everyone in this fight has a role to play. Some need to be confrontational, some need to be under the radar to educate and help implement change and some need to be on the streets, in their face and writing about it to let us all know where the front line is. There is PLENTY to do to fight this scourge and we all can’t do everything the same.

Right on Chris! I’m so thankful for you for standing firm about this. Besides problems with Jasser since the get go, I’m against this whole approach that wastes time & resources deceiving or at least confusing the masses with the notion that there is or could be some sort of moderate Islam. Jasser claims to be a “devout Muslim” but doesn’t even follow his own clear texts, what a con artist.

What an interesting conversation. I’ve also contacted Dr. Jasser with some pointed questions, and have not heard a word from him. Not to offend anyone else, I would equate this situation to, say, an individual remaining in the Roman Catholic Church, hoping to bring a more “evangelical” point of view to the discussion; or a dyed-in-the-wool Democrat trying to reform his party from the inside. If your mind and heart have been changed and you can’t reconcile your beliefs with your church/political party/social club/spouse even….you are wasting your time and energy and diluting your message. Jasser ought to relinquish his ties to Islam, and ACT should help him do that, instead of playing games. (However, I do believe trying to create a third party is a waste of time; I prefer a grassroots movement to reclaim the principles of the Republican party — smaller government, more personal responsiblity, low taxes, secure borders, etc.)

Chris, I must admit that it was gutsy for you to take on Act for America as you did. I’m not sure I would have confronted them the way you did but OTOH, I can’t disagree with anything you said. If the truth is a “hit piece”, as AFA suggests, then we need more hit pieces to drive home the facts.

I have tried on several occasions to confront AFA on Obama’s continual ineligibility to be president. I have told them to stop calling Obama “president” until he provides documents that qualifies him to be dubbed that title. They finally told me (without providing any sources) that he is the president and they will continue calling him so until otherwise stated. In other words, AFA is taking the word of the lamestream media and not researching the truth of Obama’s lack of natural born citizenship as so many of us have. So I can relate with your lack of success in persuading the likes of Brigitte Gabriel in this regard.

But back to the subject here. Personally, I like Dr. Jasser, though like the other posters here, he has not responded to past correspondence from me. However, the issue that he and AFA seem to sidestep is the fact that, as some quote, “there may be peaceful Muslims but there is only one Islam”.

Here is where Jasser and AFA’s ammo cease to exist and I’ll illustrate:

In the Christian faith, we have various denominations. Many of them are further divided up, like the Presbyterian and Lutheran churches, for example. The Presbyterian denomination has two factions (for lack of a better term), the conservative Presbyterian Church of America and the liberal Presbyterian USA, the latter which supports abortion on demand and same sex marriage. The Lutheran Church has two main factions, the conservative Missouri Synod and the liberal Evangelical Lutheran Church of America (ELCA), the latter of which generally supports abortion and same sex marriage like the Presbyterian Church USA (PCUSA).

You can read online and via their literature what the tenets of faith and bylaws these denominations and factions of denominations subscribe to. You may agree or disagree with them and you may be revulsed as I am by the morally bankrupt positions of the PCUSA and ELCA but at least you know where they stand and whether you wish to affiliate with them.

The same does not apply to Islam, at least from what I have read. We hear about the so-called “moderate Muslims” but last I checked, there are no mosques that are listed in the phone book as “moderate” or otherwise (if I’m wrong, feel free to correct me). There are no denominational factions that divide Islam as they do the adherents of the Judeo-Christian faith. Thus it is entirely fair to conclude that all mosques (in America and elsewhere) read the same Koran and interpret it the same way. The burden of proof is not upon us to prove that there is more than one interpretation of Islam. The burden is upon them. And I don’t know of any mosques with signs saying “moderate” on their edifices. If Jasser attends one of them, I’d like to know of it.

Thus it’s reasonable to conclude that there is but one Islam and as such, I believe it’s reasonable to observe its adherents, wherever we may meet them, as troublemakers until they prove otherwise.

M. Zuhdi Jasser cannot possibly be as ignorant of Islam as his arguments indicate. With Jasser, as with other Muslim “reformists” like Kamal Nawash and “Tom” Haidon, we have individuals who cannot possibly not know the sordid details of Muhammad; the sordid details of the founding texts of Islam and of the teachings of the Sunna and mainstream Islamic law; and the sordid details of Islamic history. Of these “reformists”, then, we must conclude that they are either:

1) strangely and markedly schizophrenic

or

2) lying to us.

There is no third possible alternative. And needless to say, neither #1 nor #2 proffer useful allies for our concern.

When, for example, Jasser defines the “Islamist” as following

“a supremacist form of Islam which depends upon the medieval Wahhabi-Islamist interpretations of our Islamic scripture and tradition”

— he is clearly distinguishing a good Islam of “scripture and tradition” from the bad Islam of the “Islamists”. Unfortunately, as Chris Logan here and countless others have shown, the normative and mainstream scripture and tradition of Islam is replete, saturated, with hatred, venom, intolerance and calls for concerted violence against non-Muslims who do not submit to the rule of Islam.

In another article (this time from Jasser’s own website), a reporter noted that

“Jasser agrees that there are problematic verses in the Quran”

though that reporter failed to specify which verses are “problematic” to Jasser, and why; and what Jasser would plan to do about it.

It aggrieves to see representatives for ACT! for America demonstrate such retrograde cluelessness about the problem of Muslims. Their argument — when they are not spinning their wheels trying to prop up Jasser’s cred — basically amounts to “beggars can’t be choosers”: i.e., since there are so few genuine Muslim reformers around, we need to take what we can get, even if he has problems and frayed threads indicating a seamy underside.

I can’t argue any point you have made, using Islamic texts, to accurately describe how Islamists view Zuhdi Jasser as nothing more than an apostate worthy of chop chop square. Now you know why Muslims don’t flock to Zuhdi – Shariah Law and Political Islam says it is a death sentence to be carried out by any Muslim.

I don’t agree with Zuhdi Jasser or Tawfiq Hamid 100% – heck I don’t even agree with myself 100% of the time and the Zuhdi conundrum is one of those times.

Political Islam and Shariah Islamia are the biggest threats to America. In the short term the Shariah threat of major importance is Family Shariah Courts being legally recognized under U.S. Jurisprudence. The next Shariah threat are blasphemy laws being adjudicated under hate crime laws. Then there are Shariah Accomodations in public and private institutions.

Zuhdi Jasser is openly fighting against Political Islam. I will join with him in his fight against Political Islam taking hold in America. Zuhdi Jasser and his group should be the “Go To” Muslim voice in America rather than the Muslim Brotherhood sub families in CAIR, MSA, ICNA, and the 20+ other groups admitted into evidence in the HLF Trial. Which would you rather see?

Before you take out your long knives and impale Zuhdi Jasser – Think of how he can help our movement in the short term. Zuhdi is the Islamist wedge issue here in America. Because there are no Zuhdi Jasser’s outside of the West because all the Zuhdi’s have had hair cutting appointment in Chop Chop Square.

Jasser is talking out of both sides of his mouth, as he stands up for Islam. How will non-Muslims supporting him gain him Muslim supporters? Why isn’t he in Mosques giving speeches? The answer to that, you already know. Because he gets no respect from the Muslim community. America has been waiting almost 10 years for “moderate” Muslims to come to the rescue. I think it is time to move on, from that idea.

Thank you for the reasoned response. From my perspective if Zuhdi gets respect or not from the wider Islamic community in America is irrelevant. Here is why: I don’t care what the Muslim community does or doesn’t do because at the end of the day most ALL “good” Muslims will side with the Muslim over the non-Muslim, that fact is beyond debate.

Our side of the movement, anti-Shariah Islamia, is all I care about. We can use Zuhdi’s stance on anti Political Islam as wedge issue and at the same time deflect all the knee jerk epithets of hater, bigot, etc… because WE are allied with a devout Muslim – and then throw right that fact back at them and ask them why they are not aligned with Zuhdi a devout Muslim.

True it is just a debating point but it is a very important one if utilized correctly and without reservation.

I was once rigid in my knowledge of Islamic law and culture to dismiss Zuhdi as irrelevant because his politics are diametrically opposed to Islamic Law yet he still calls himself a devout Muslim. [I can not reconcile that fact even now}.

Within the last 6 months I realized I need to be more flexible and reevaluate how Zuhdi can help “our” work. That means using Zuhdi’s stance against Political Islam as a partner rather than discarding him(Zuhdi) just like our adversaries do.

CAIR, ISNA, MSA, etc… would like nothing better to have ACT For America, Logan’s Warning, Jihad Watch, etc… dismiss what Zuhdi brings to the table. Would you rather allign yourself with ACT For America or CAIR, ISNA, and the MSA.

I am aligning myself with Zuhdi and ACT For America.
Zuhdi is my shield and spear – And Zuhdi will use ACT For America to help him get his message out to a larger and hopefully national audience.

Ibrahim, I do not understand how you can separate political Islam from Islam itself. By its very nature, Islam is political; as Hasan al-Banna put it, “an all-embracing concept which regulates every aspect of life.” I am a Jew. Al-Banna’s description of Islam could equally apply to my faith. There is no separation of “synagogue” (if you will) and state. The difference between your faith and mine – between the Qur’an and the Torah, between the words of Muhammad and the words of Moses – is the God we worship. The God of the Qur’an is a very different God from the God of the Jewish Bible.

Ibrahim said: ” I don’t care what the Muslim community does or doesn’t do because at the end of the day most ALL “good” Muslims will side with the Muslim over the non-Muslim, that fact is beyond debate.”

You are 100% correct, and that is my point. Promoting Jasser only moves non-Muslims away from this fact. Because here is what he has said.

“We will seek to show Americans and the world that a plurality if not a majority of Muslims do not toe the line of political Islam.”

What he is saying is just not true, and he is not the spokesperson for the ummah.

You saying that I am alligning myself with CAIR is ridiculous. I speak out against them as well, and I will continue to make people aware that “moderate” Muslims are not going to save the day. Sorry, I am not going to spread false hope, nor will I call Jasser a devout Muslim. Because he is not.

Chris, will you be at the CB hearing Wednesday, the 12th? It will be at 49-51 Chambers St. (I think the Emigrant Bank Bldg) at 12:45. It’s a hearing about Walmart, but Pam Geller will be there to protest the mosque.

Wow – Zuhdi does make for interesting debate. However, we do not live in a world of absolutes.

Just as Zuhdi is a conundrum for our side he is equally problematic for the Islamist side.

The difference is the Qur’an, Hadith, and Umdat al-Salik (Fiqh) are absolutes with virtually no wiggle room for reflection and change. Zuhdi, love him or hate him, does upset that apple cart. Islam is a house of cards and does not stand up to debate, reform, or change – that is why Mo made such activity a capitol offense.

I will use Zuhdi’s stance against Political Islam as a tool in my arsenal when battling the Islamists here in America. ACT For America is an ally and should not be attacked by our own. Lord knows there is enough petty BS infighting within our movement as it is.

Chris I love the work you do and look forward to getting your email alerts in my box most every morning. I forward them to my friends put them up on FB page. So keep doing what your doing because your work is important and effective.

I agree with you. We have two problems: The imaginary “moderate” Islam and the real fanciful ACT!

Regarding Jasser: There are rare Muslims who claim to be both “moderate” and “devout.” Such combination is an oxymoron. Jasser is one such Muslim. He is self-proclaimed as “devout” while exhibiting signs of being a “true” moderate. Now that is truly mind-boggling. I’ve asked him what parts of the Qur’an, Hadith and Sura he has dismissed as un-Islamic. He did not reply to my email although his web site condemns the many radical and violent sections of Islamic scripture (as of this month). Unfortunately, the Qur’an itself prohibits Qur’anic deconstruction. I do know that I would not be telling the truth if I claimed I was a “devout Christian” while at the same time I argued for dismissal of a third of the Holy Bible and Christian tradition. I would rightly be called an apostate.

ACT! is one example of an organization tiptoeing around the truth of the root problem of Islam. This organization, while doing much good work to expose some horrific aspects of Islam, refuses to publicly recognize “Islam” as the source of the deception, sedition, and sharia law that both American and foreign Muslims are in the process of imposing on our country. ACT! publicly refers to “radical” Islam as the root of the problem when in fact the root extends deep into Islam itself. In dialogue with ACT!’s leadership, I learned that they refuse to publicly identify Islam, just plain Islam, as the root of the problem. Why? They don’t want to appear to “slander” or disrespect Muslims. The organization is influenced by their politically savvy leadership (the sort that tends to sacrifice truth for temporary gain) while being cowed by the Islamic version of slander. They bought into the deception: The truth is slander. It dare not be expressed.

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Quotes About Islam

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"Those who know nothing about Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those people are witless. Islam says: 'Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all!' Does this mean that Muslims should sit back until they are devoured by the infidel? Islam says: 'Kill them, put them to the sword and scatter them.' Islam says: 'Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword.' The sword is the key to Paradise, which can be opened only for the Holy Warriors! Does all this mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war? I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim."

About Logan’s Warning

The primary mission of this website is to educate non-Muslims on the ideology & practice of Islam and to Islam's threats to our free and open society. The goal is to assist in developing legislation to defeat the dangerous Sharia movement underway here in America. Violence is not the answer, nor is it acceptable.