White Christmas is a stupid, terrible episode

I've been watching episodes of this show in no particular order on Netflix. I'm not as excited about it as most people, I think it can get a little on the melodramatic side, but most of it's been perfectly fine. White Christmas however is the first episode i've come across so far that i think is just plain bad.

I actually thought it started out very promising. I like Jon Hamm, and the first act made me genuinely curious to find out what was going on. The first story of the episode about the virgin guy trying to get laid had a decent enough premise and a nice twist, and could've been an okay stand alone episode had it been expanded on a little. The second story of the episode is where it started to lose me quick however.

So the premise of the second story is that there's a company that basically makes copies of people's minds to sell back to them to act as their personal slaves. The question whether self aware AI's deserve human rights has been explored countless times in Sci Fi: Star Trek, Ex Machina and Ghost in the Shell are examples that come to mind. Black Mirror doesn't explore this premise though. Even though the AI copies are just as self aware and real as their human counterparts, they have no rights, are abused and tortured in the most horrific ways and are destined to suffer for eternity. I get that it's supposed to shock the viewer, but it is beyond the realm of believability. As it is we treat animals with infinitely more respect and dignity than conscious AIs are treated in this Black Mirror episode. If one day humans manage to create artificial life that is aware of its own existence, It would not be treated like a neat gadget to automate your toaster, which is the most ridiculous *beep* i've seen in science fiction in years.

This isn't even close to the most ridiculous thing that happens in this episode though. In this same hypothetical future you can block people in real life. This means when someone is being a bit of a dick, you press a button and they become blurry silhouettes and their speech becomes too muffled to understand. The person you block sees the same happen to you. you are basically erased from each other's reality for however long the block is in action. I'm convinced Charlie Brooker, the writer of this episode, gave a total amount of 10 seconds of thought to this concept. If anyone could just totally erase whoever they wanted from their reality and only interact with the people they like, society would *beep* crumble. This system could so easily be abused it wouldn't possibly work in any real life scenario. People would isolate themselves completely, students would block their teachers and parents, criminals would block police officers. Nothing of the sort is addressed. The ''Block'' mechanic is rather used as a cheap gimmick to set up a predictable, melodramatic plot twist.

This episode COULD have ben okay had any of the concepts been explored realistically or in an interesting way, but instead this episode chose melodrama over thoughtful Sci Fi, as is more often the case in this show than i'd like.

Re: White Christmas is a stupid, terrible episode

Lol at you saying people could block teachers, police officers, and their parents. You know what would happen if you blocked a police officer? You would be immediately taken to the ground and arrested. That is just common sense. You block your teacher? Cool you fail out of school, again your problem. If my kid blocked me? Okay you are kicked out of the house, let's see how long that block lasts.

The thing about the AI is it ISNT REAL. It is simply code. The only time I felt bad for it was when they set the guy up in the end to be stuck there for 720,000 years. Real or not...that's not cool. Your problems with the episodes are complete stretches and are just simply you trying to be angry about something. Also, if you think people would give a crap about the cookie thing then you obviously don't leave your house much. The people who would think it is bad would just not use it.

I respect your opinion, and you don't have to like the episode, but when you mentioned the problems with the block system it was laughable.

Re: White Christmas is a stupid, terrible episode

They are not stretches at all. if something is self aware it's alive. There is no difference between the AIs and their human counterparts. yes, they are technically just code, but code so complicated it's no different from the way your brain is technically ''coded''.

The blocking mechanic would completely change the way we interact and destroy the fabric of society. Officers wouldn't know who to arrest if you blocked them, because they have no way to identify you. When you give children or teenagers a powerful tool to defy authority, it would be naive to think they wouldn't use it. they would drop out in huge numbers. Imagine a world where no one ever had to hear anything they didn't want to hear. It would look like Tumblr come to life.

Re: White Christmas is a stupid, terrible episode

I'm sure they have to it where it is ILLEGAL to block police officers. I think you are expecting there to be no consequences for these actions. Consequences keep people in check. Why do you listen to your parents when you are a teenager? Because if you don't, have fun being kicked out of the house. The fact you think that people would abuse this system is laughable. Sure there would be SOME people who do, but the world needs ditch diggers.

It is simple. If a cop sees a block then he goes and arrests the person. If a kid blocks his parents then he/she is probably going to be kicked out of the house. You block a teacher, you fail. ALL of these things would have extreme consequences that would keep people in line. If you dont get that consequences are what keep people in check, then I don't know what to tell you.

Re: White Christmas is a stupid, terrible episode

And notice that the story line answers the obvious whole in the blocking system: not being able to see/hear people does not prevent you from doing violence to them. The character demonstrates this when he smashes the vase against the wall. At the same time they hint at how very unsatisfying such violence would be.

Re: White Christmas is a stupid, terrible episode

if I can block someone temporarily, I can cheat, steal etc. because one can still touch the physical world just can't interact with humans. I can sneak up on someone and steal their wallet or rob someone blind and they'd have no way of identifying me. I dont need to see them, just their possessions. Itd be naive to think everyone will abide by the rules based on consequences. That's assuming everyone has morals, without mental health disabilities, and care about consequences in the first place. Deterrence does not work on passionate crimes.

And IF there are some kind of rules where ppl can't abuse the blocking system, then as OP stated, it should've been explored a little more.

I still enjoyed this episode but they are valid points. Hardly laughable as you've described.

Re: White Christmas is a stupid, terrible episode

Try ignoring the police, your parents(as a child in their house), or any authority figure. You can do it today, and they will not even have the convenience of knowing exactly when you started ignoring them and have it confirmed. You don't need an implant to ignore people and pretend they don't exist.
Go ahead. Try it out. I double dog dare you.

I don't think you thought this through very well.

A child would presumably have their implants purchased by their parents who would have some sort of control, i.e. they cannot block who their parents do no want them to, obviously the parents would be on that list.

Teachers/schools could have no-block requirements.

Police could have a block override.

Please try again after thinking this though a bit more.

Re: White Christmas is a stupid, terrible episode

Everything he said was on point. Blocking is a ridiculous concept and they used some pretty bad examples to show it. Beth, cheats, gets pregnant and blocks Joe just because she didn't want him to find out. Because it was inconvenient for her. Just imagine your partner blocking you out of the blue and then you see them with a child. To prevent you from inquiring, they block you and put a restraining order. Peachy, right? I think it's pretty safe to assume a lot of blocked people would go insane. Not to mention the 'block-everyone' punishment for Hamm's character in whom they basically planted a seed for a mentally unstable individual and released him into the society. The whole idea is just not well thought out.

As for the AI, how is it not real? What makes someone real? Have you heard of Descartes "I think, therefore I am"? You basically copy and therefore create a person who's able to think and feel. You even admit it's 'not cool' and feeling bad for how they are being treated. Imagine you realizing that all of your memories up to this point weren't 'really' yours and that you're a copy of someone, who is now considered 'just a code' for others to do whatever they please for all eternity.

Re: White Christmas is a stupid, terrible episode

Blocking would be an advanced restraining order at that point. If he didn't run up to her and cause a scene in public he probably would have had a case in court or something. Instead he gave her a reason to make it LEGAL. Facebook also thinks with targeted ads, is it alive? The reason I feel kind of bad is because I don't think abuse for no reason is okay in any sense. I don't care it is is real, fake, thinks it is real...it just isn't right (for the whole 720,000 years thing). The one where they had basically slave labor, I am okay with because at least the cookie had a purpose.

Again the blocking wouldn't be too bad because at the end of the day there are consequences for your actions. Block a teacher, you fail. Block a cop, get arrested. Block a parent, get kicked out. Let's see how many people try abusing the system when they end up in jail, kicked out of the house, or can't find a job.

Kill Hatred with Kindness

Re: White Christmas is a stupid, terrible episode

That 'scene' in public was pretty mild considering the situation. I can't say how I would behave if my wife/girlfriend blocked me while carrying my child (at least what I think is my child), but I would be emotional as hell and I would bet any sane individual who doesn't have ice water running through his veins would too. Someone less stable could actually hurt the person who blocked him and cause a real scene. At the very least, the one who blocks should be held responsible for any consequences if he or she didn't have a valid reason for the block. And avoiding a discussion is a pretty invalid reason.

One of the greatest fears of most people is being ignored and left out of society. As we are social beings, (forced) isolation could cause severe mental issues, especially if it is enforced by your loved ones.

As for what is a real person it's still up for debate, but I'm pretty sure the consensus is that anything which possesses self-consciousness would be considered a real person. It can reason and display emotions dynamically instead of being scripted, it's just mechanical instead of biological. Enslaving such an individual just because it doesn't have a body is a pretty big breach of ethics. Not to mention it still has a potential to be mentally broken as Hamm's character pointed out and (if not trained properly) could probably rebel and cause damage, depending on the level of control they posses.

Any psychologist with half a brain employed by the government to test out both of these ideas would be against them from the start and would never have allowed them to be implemented, as they are potentially very dangerous to the society.

Again they did not think this through. Yes they just want to represent the dark side of technology, but as ideas they are pretty far fetched.

Re: White Christmas is a stupid, terrible episode

Just imagine your partner blocking you out of the blue and then you see them with a child. To prevent you from inquiring, they block you and put a restraining order. Peachy, right?

I don't think that in reality anyone would be able to block someone like that indefinitely completely unilaterally. He has rights as a person, as her husband, and as [presumably] the father.

That was just incredibly cruel what his wife did to him, and I don't think that any court in reality would allow that to go on for years on end without explanation to the husband until the wife's death.

So, bottom line is, that while I can imagine a block like that being used in theory, there would be many legal stipulations on its use in reality if a technology like that ever comes to exist.

Re: White Christmas is a stupid, terrible episode

i agree with OP. this situation is not real. we wont enslave AIs. that is just not whats going to happen. we will probably give them the same rights as we have for ourselves because they are the same as us minus immortality

and some episodes are not very real. like this one, or like Bear episode. there is no way that people will be okay about torturing someone for entertainment value. but i am ok with it because it is considered art. it doesnt have to be 100% real. it should make a point by exaggeration

there is some kind of blocking going on todays social media already right. and you can go too far with blocking concept(Christmas episode). ostracizing is considered worst punishment imaginable. another matter(Bear episode), you can go too far with distancing self from others sufferings. dehumanization, making ordinary people torture others by giving them illusory authority, like Milgram's experiment . there certainly are applications to it. and with AI(Christmas episode).. well there is a big debate about it going on so no point in mentioning it here again

so Black Mirror is only making a point. to start discussion. once it starts, then we'll find solutions to this problems that it is focusing on

Re: White Christmas is a stupid, terrible episode

I thought the blocking was ridiculous because if someone is having a heated argument and then gets blocked, they are still in the room and they can still punch you or kill you. I mean just imagine if you are having a serious fight with someone and they block you? You'd be so mad you'd probably start lashing out physically because you can't communicate any other way. Seems counter productive if the idea is to distance yourself from someone who is out of control. 

Re: White Christmas is a stupid, terrible episode

If the person kills you then he/she goes to jail. How are these even the first thoughts that come to peoples' minds?? Sure it might enrage some people, but at the end of the day it doesn't change your personality. JAIL is a good reason not to kill somebody who blocked you.

Re: White Christmas is a stupid, terrible episode

So your argument is that no one would commit physical violence or murder because they could go to jail afterwards? That doesn't stop everyone in the real world, so why do you think it would be different on a twisted show like Black Mirror? People get murdered and beat up all of the time because someone loses their temper in the heat of the moment. Which is why blocking someone in person is a stupid concept. That angry person is still in the room, only now they are 10x more pissed off than they were before they were blocked.

Re: White Christmas is a stupid, terrible episode

Keep in mind the suffering of the AI in order to be obedient is not brought to the attention of the person using it. It just arrives and that person thinks it is a program customized for them, not necessarily an actual copy of them forced into slavery. I attribute it to exactly how we treat animals today (to an extent). Many meat processing plants abuse animals. Animals alive with limbs missing, restricted movement for tenderness, etc. The real only difference that we know of is the amount that the AI/animal is aware of their captivity. We assume animals do not have the cognitive thinking to know they are trapped and being sent to die, but we know the AI is conscious of their fate.

Re: White Christmas is a stupid, terrible episode

Agree with your overall assessment of the episode and I share some of your complaints. Aside from the sloppy thinking re: the blocking (it would never work the way it's presented in the episode -- some reasons have already been given in this thread), the biggest flaw of this episode for me is that it has no coherent storyline. It's just randomly jumping from one premise to the next without fully exploring any of them.

First, we're in that house, and obviously, something's wrong there (for anyone who has watched at least one or two more episodes of the show, it should be obvious from the start that this is just a virtual environment). -- Then the focus shifts to Jon Hamm as the creepy stalker and the murder and voices in the crazy woman's head and all that. -- But then that storyline is dropped and now we're suddenly getting thrown into a new scenario about copying your mind and abusing AIs as domestic slaves -- only to see that scenario fall to the side because now we're focusing on Potter's love life and this whole new idea of simply blocking people from your life. -- But of course, the logical flaws in that premise are brushed under the carpet because now we have to deal with that grandpa murder case and a ton of non-sensical legal implications and punishments that are unrealistically one-sided -- and it ends with Hamm's character being blocked from any interactions with society for whatever reason and the copy of Potter's mind being punished for quasi-eternity while Potter himself sits in his cell and -- sorry, I don't even know how to properly summarize that ending.

This whole episode is just one incoherent mess of ideas, none of which get the full exploration they deserve. There are at least four separate episodes in there, and I'm disappointed they rammed it all into one like this.

Re: White Christmas is a stupid, terrible episode

I find it funny that people are saying 'it would never happen' when it comes to blocking. Most of the technology we have today, along with the social effect, are things we would never have believed 30 years ago.

The unforseen effects of technology is the foundation of this series.

Re: White Christmas is a stupid, terrible episode

ct780, you do know that the White Christmas episode was basically it's own stand-alone episode that aired separately from the rest of season 2, obviously during Christmas. British shows like to do that.

That's why it's basically 3 episodes thrown into one, and I've honestly got no problem with it because I watched the seasons as they aired and it felt more natural to have a big grand stand-alone episode like that as opposed to being tacked on the end of Season 2 like it is on Netflix. I can imagine watching it in that context and not liking it.

To the original argument, I agree with the very last person who posted that literally all technology today is unimaginable from those in the past.

Also this show is supposed to be more like the Twilight Zone, which uses science fiction as a commentary on the human condition. It's very concept-oriented, Charlie Brooker was using the idea of copying a person's AI and making them work as a way of making people about our own consciousness, whether or not we know that we all aren't cookies ourselves.

But, in questioning all of these things and opening up a discussion at least you're thinking about the concept, even if it is just to scrutinize it. Better than something that's so boring you forget it immediately.
(Unfortunately that's how I feel about most of the 3rd season)

Re: White Christmas is a stupid, terrible episode

Uh, no offense, but it doesn't matter in which order you shoot or air or watch a show's episodes -- if an episode's internal structure is a complete mess, no different shooting/airing/watching order will fix that. (And I watched the episode separately from the rest of Season 2, so Netflix had nothing to do with it.)

And like I said, it wasn't a big stand-alone XXL-sized episode. I would've been fine with that (just like I enjoy, for example, the Doctor Who Christmas specials). But it was three separate episodes/premises crammed into one. If you want audiences to really think about a concept, you present different sides of it, you put pros and cons on the screen, and you make it impossible for the audience to see it as a simple black-and-white matter. Unfortunately, the episode completely failed to do that, and again, the problem was that none of the various premises received enough room to breathe.

Re: White Christmas is a stupid, terrible episode

I agree with the loser and suicidal chick story arc was unnecessary. It was placed only to justify Hamm's character getting blocked in the end.

The other 2 stories do tie in together however. The real Joe refused to talk to anyone thus prosecutors couldn't convict him, so they needed to interrogate the AI to get a confession, guess the second story showing us the girl getting her own cookie was necessary for the latter part of the story so viewers can understand how AIs work and be used (and abused) in different situations.

Re: White Christmas is a stupid, terrible episode

They all tie together, at the end. There are callbacks to the technology, and the way Hamm manipulates the person he's (supposedly) colluding with, and the multiplicity of voices, and the primal fear of separation anxiety.

People who are dismissing this episode based on a perceived lack of focus/coherence are [standard IMDB trope] Missing The Point [/Standard IMDB trope].

Sure, there are logic bombs in the story, and certain plot points are implausible in the Extreme. (Free example: there would be NO NEED for a confession, if you could make an exact copy of a person, memories complete. Durr.) But I have to give it credit for what it does accomplish, very Very well.

"Personally I hope they make all the gods black and change it from Valhalla to Valholla!"

Re: White Christmas is a stupid, terrible episode

White Christmas was a bit more of a jumble of technology than the other episodes. The "yourself as human slave", was a backing for "a copy of yourself that confesses", and then "a copy of yourself that we punish".

The blocking thing was a backing to the plot twist of why the pregnant girl inexplicably walks away from the relationship while pregnant, ie., she knows it is not his child.

To me this is like fitting puzzle pieces together to make the story, I didn't find it that bad. Trying to shoot holes in Black mirror is not a fruitful excercize. In the electronic bees episode, a simple EMP generator (yes, there are handheld ones you can make on youtube) would have stopped the problem, but for every plot there is a way to ruin it. The point is not the technical accuracy, but what the plot means, and what the author is trying to say.

Take the "punish a copy of myself". You probably don't remember a movie, "the long ships", featuring a young Sidney Portiat that featured a torture device where the victim slides down a knife, obviously with the idea that he is cut in half on arrival at the bottom, and to either side are two matching beds of spikes.

Now I saw that as a child, and it always amused me. If you are split in half, are the two halves of you each still amenable to (further) torture?

Likewise, making a copy of a criminal mind and then torturing that (by living forever in a interaction free room) brings up issues. Why not make 10 copies and torture them all? 100? 1000? The original criminal does not even know he is being tortured, so perhaps it would be more satisfying to tell him about it? Make him watch? Would he even care if his doppleganger is being tortured?

This is exactly the kind of mental exploration that black mirror is designed to invoke, and it is why Black Mirror is "what the twilight zone wanted to be when it grew up". Its a great and unusual show.

Re: White Christmas is a stupid, terrible episode

Humans would feel no more guilty torturing an AI than they would, telling Siri to eff off. Its just a tool to the humans. A bit of software. And being that no human would have experienced the world of the AI personally, they never will realize how 'alive' the AI actually was.

Re: White Christmas is a stupid, terrible episode

It is no more alive than toy robot. If we PROGRAMMED that robot to ACT alive, or human, or PROGRAMMED REACTIONS to SIMULATE emotions/feelings, it is still JUST code and mechanics.

ACTING "sentient" is still just ACTING.
It's crazy for us to think we have "MADE LIFE" when all we did was mimic life.

Now, if someone gets off by tourturing AI, that person has issues that need delt with.
Then again, we murder real people online all the time via GAME AVATARS (Call Of Duty etc) and never think twice about pulling the trigger..... so.... maybe there is no hope for us? :D

Re: White Christmas is a stupid, terrible episode

You are both being FAR too dismissive of some incredibly deep issues, with endless gray areas and no real answers.

The episode had serious flaws, but in concept it's fairly brilliant.

Some questions: What defines "life?" Or "sentience?"

If the copy of the husband was really *identical,* then your dismissive "no more alive" statement is demonstrably false. If it's not, then a confession from it would be useless. See how that works?

Lots to think about.

Final point: *you* decided to apply the "acting" label. It's useful to examine how you would determine such a thing. Don't know if you have children, but a related scenario is: as they grow up, when are they "copying/acting" out emotions, from perceived social cues, and when are they *really* experiencing them? If you have kids, you know Exactly what I mean.

LOTS to think about. If for no other reason, I applaud this episode.

"Personally I hope they make all the gods black and change it from Valhalla to Valholla!"

Re: White Christmas is a stupid, terrible episode

If WE built it from parts, it is not alive. did it grow from an egg? nope. can the parts it is made of self heal? nope. say a wire in a robot arm gets cut... will the wires and cover HEAL itself? nope. Sure, it maybe FIX itself out of stuff and parts we provided to it, but that is not GROWING or HEALING itself.

Nothing WE build from parts is alive, just pretending to be.

And the moment we start to think these tools are alive just because we programmed them to imitate it, THAT MOMENT humans become worthless junk. Because they are somehow our equals which they aren't.... WHO would you save if you could only save one: a live seeming robot or a person?
And I don't think anyone really wants to devalue us that way. But it will probably happen. ;)

Re: White Christmas is a stupid, terrible episode

If your definition of "alive" depends upon whether something can heal, or grew from an egg, then you need to re-think things. I'll leave off the list of things that fit the criteria; a simple google search will do that for you.

As I said, these types of questions are what elevates this episode. The treatment lacks, agreed. . .but I (respectfully) maintain that you've not fully thought through the deeper issues.

Have you read Philip K Dick? He explores many of the same concepts. Many movies have, as well. It's a VERY old question, with no real answers.

Not yet, anyway. . .

"Personally I hope they make all the gods black and change it from Valhalla to Valholla!"

Re: White Christmas is a stupid, terrible episode

Huge PKD fan. :) Yes, this show definitely reminds me of PKD style stuff. I'm gonna stick with my "if we make it, it will never be alive" concept because of my computer background.

I just worry that people WILL devalue real HUMAN LIFE, as these fake lives surface. Unplugging a sim life should be no different than shutting off a light bulb to us. When it no longer is, we're toast!! :)

Re: White Christmas is a stupid, terrible episode

office water cooler talk with three coworkers.... all three agreed AI is never really alive and subject to us deleting, altering, or changing however we like.
One even said, "It's even in the name: AI ARTIFICIAL Intelligence. It IS Artificial."

I did not lead the convo in any way. I simply asked if AI is real, how would we know, and is shutting it off "killing" it.
Was a fun talk! :)

Re: White Christmas is a stupid, terrible episode

Percieved intelligence, like in a chess playing program? It is "smarter" than you because it is programmed deeper than your chess playing abilities? It is not intelligent, just following coded instructions. Still artificial. Same with a program that is designed and coded to take in info, and recode itself: just following instructions. It isn't alive.

Re: White Christmas is a stupid, terrible episode

I do say, yes, it is STILL only following the coded instructions WE programmed it to do. We had to design the system to do that. Changes could be similar to a computer virus. Hopefully the new code is good code, but can also eradicate it if needed. When your computer gets a VIRUS, is that suddenly "AI"? Or alive? No, just extra code. Yet, it "grew" seemingly on its own.

At the end of the day, we can pull the plug, shut it off, and power it up the next day in the same state. We don't do that to kids.

Should someone out there value their car, or robot, or computer over human life, they should get their head examined. Regardless if it acts alive or holds sentimental value to someone, it is still just replaceable STUFF.

Additionally, if the majority of the population THINKS this stuff is "Alive" because of how it ACTS... auto driving cars, chat-bots, robots with human-like personality and interaction and appearance, well that is their personal issue. It is still just stuff we can shut off at will. No matter how advanced it SEEMS.

Re: White Christmas is a stupid, terrible episode

Right. The virus propagated itself via our instructions. But if you didn't know where it came from, it would seemingly have grown on its own.... like self coded things derived from experiences. At end of day, wires, code servos, SEEMINGLY sentient "thoughts" are still wires, servos and code.

Your last sentence*: if we COPY people and put them IN TO a 3d robot thing, should we value the copy just like the original? I guess this is exactly what this episode is all about with the cookie: it is STILL just a thing they trained to serve the REAL life person. Just because it ACTS alive or freaked out, it is still just a thing WE made from nothing.

When our copy becomes as valued and respected as ourselves (because it is ACTING alive), then we are doomed as a species. We'll make this stuff, until we are all dead, and they go one reproducing themselves with zero purpose other than reproducing. WE are a little better at life than that. :)

* As it stands right now, we have no way of PROVING if we have transferred our "selfs" or "essence" or "soul" into something or just copied it all. If I copied me as is, then asked myself, "are you actually the REAL me", of course my COPY would say yes. But *I* would still be here in me! How would we ever really know? The cookie thought she was real too.

possibly but you also seem adamant against backing up yourself when we build the technology to do that.

Your last sentence*: if we COPY people and put them IN TO a 3d robot thing, should we value the copy just like the original?

i have no direct answer for this, maybe? but i would not allow myself to be copied if i still exist.

I guess this is exactly what this episode is all about with the cookie: it is STILL just a thing they trained to serve the REAL life person.

Just because it ACTS alive or freaked out, it is still just a thing WE made from nothing.

that's not very different from having children is it? should we do artificial insemination of unused sperm and eggs and train them to serve REAL people? just because it ACTS alive or freaked out, it is still just a thing WE made from nothing.

i would never do this, that's the craziest thing about this episode, this is slavery whether it's an actual child or some kind of AI clone that acts alive.

When our copy becomes as valued and respected as ourselves (because it is ACTING alive), then we are doomed as a species.

or maybe that's how we continue as a species.

We'll make this stuff, until we are all dead, and they go one reproducing themselves with zero purpose other than reproducing. WE are a little better at life than that. :)

you do not know that they have no other purpose. if what you say is true we can program them to learn other purposes. and they shouldn't even be programmed to reproduce, only self-preserve.

But *I* would still be here in me! How would we ever really know? The cookie thought she was real too.

you wouldn't. that's the point. i don't think you and i see how this technology can/would be used in the same way. if someone gets into a car accident and loses a limb they can get a prosthetic, if someone has heart or lung failure they can get transplants (there are also artificial ones), eventually not that far from now we should be able to transplant fully artificial organs of all kinds.

if someone gets into a traumatic brain injury why can't that ever be replaced by something artificial if it functions exactly the same and no one will know the difference?

if the person becomes braindead, gets a 3d printing of their brain from the day before transplanted into them, wakes up, goes to work, performs all their job duties, takes care of their kids, we should not do anything like this ever?

back to your question from way on top. this person whose brain got transplanted with a replica of their own brain should be valued just like the original if it in fact does functional like the original.

there would obviously be many rules for this. just like we don't randomly and arbitrarily artificially inseminate people just because we can.

Maybe the answer is, stop messing with AI etc

it's the answer if you only know to fear it.

Re: White Christmas is a stupid, terrible episode

Someone CODED the virus to copy itself and spread and mix up its own code to be less detectable. WE programmed it to do that - it is not ALIVE like an actual virus, just immitates it. We pull the electricity, it's gone. Wish we could do that with REAL viruses. :)

Sure, we back up CODE. There is no way to back up ME. I'm still in me, it would be a copy, not ME.

Children: We don't unplug them (kill?) over night. AI, computers etc, we do. No reason NOT to. It's just a thing. A living, breathing, growing organic person is NOT just a thing, not replicatable, not replaceable.
It is no more slavery than us using a mechanical sliding door, or a coffee machine, or a robot that vacuums, or builds a car, or an AI that tries to sell you something online.... all just things. So is a coded, mechanical AI thing, still just a thing.

Thier purpose will ALWAYS be "Binary" jsut 0's and 1's. There will not be any more of a special purpose for AI as it is just )'s and 1's as well. Like a digital watch, mechanical doors, etc etc etc... NOTHING has changed: still something we build for a funtion. We don't make children and force them to do nothing other than say mow the lawn - that is slavery of a BEING. AI is just chips and code, not a being, just ACTING like one. It will never be sentient... just ACTING like it is sentient. Like SIRI. Are we supposed to "respect" SIRI? And that voice who answers a Google Search?? God, I hope not... but it SEEMS real so we should respect those like human life? Then we're F&^%ed.

I understand your point about putting a copy of someone into a robot. But that person has died. And we have created a computer program simulation of them by storing memories, opinions, ideas, "personality traits" etc.... but it is all still just 0s and 1s again. If we give 0's and 1's respect like REAL living organic life, we are done as a species. It is STILL only 0 and 1, code, and electronics WE can shut off on a whim, and turn back on again. We can't do that with "LIFE" because it doesn't work that way. Thus, AI is never alive to kill.

Have you read the warnings by such idiots as Hawking, Gates, Elon Musk? They are saying the same thing.

And since IMDB is killing our discussions in two weeks... it has been fun! :) Take care!

Re: White Christmas is a stupid, terrible episode

the first time i saw this episode i did not care for it at all....between it being longer than the others and at first seemingly very disjointed it was a disappointment. I went back and rewatched the first two seasons with a friend who hadn't seen them before and when I saw white christmas episode again, i landed up liking it quite a lot. it wasnt until the second time of viewing all the eipsodes again that i really got all the references in white christmas that linked basically all the episodes into that one story, albeit altered slightly.

Re: White Christmas is a stupid, terrible episode

Sometimes when I read posts like these I wonder if people get the show at all. Just to be sure: the show is supposed to show the dangers of technological advances. Do you think everything we use today is perfectly convenient? Do you think being able to meet someone on the internet and being able to get their information (which let's face it: it's quite easy) is safe? That's the whole point of the stuff Black Mirror shows you! It's supposed to make you question about the dangers of technology and the world we live in.

Do you think the writer came up with the "blocking" concept because they were hoping someday we could have something like that?