Posted
by
Soulskill
on Friday July 08, 2011 @03:50PM
from the mal-where? dept.

smitty777 writes "Deputy Undersecretary Schaffer of the DHS National Protection and Programs Directorate confessed to being aware of foreign technology that had been imported with spyware, malware, and other security risks. According to the article, 'More worryingly, the hearing specifically mentioned hardware components as possibly being compromised — which raises the questions of whether, perhaps, something as innocuous as Flash memory or embedded RFID chips could be used by interested foreign parties.' These hearings were held on July 7th to 'examine the nature and extent of the current threat to America's infrastructure.'"

Spy on us ? Why, that would indicate some amount of distrust. Why would the government distrust us? They are here to serve us, and our opinions are really important to them - we event vote for them for crying out loud. I sure know my vote counts, I see it all the time. Every big decision the government makes (you know, healthcare, civil liberties, where/when we go to war), a vote is called and we only do if the majority are game. I mean, this is a democracy, right? That's what we do. America - full of proud citizens whose relationship with their government is forged with a mutual respect and understanding.

Uhhhh...did you READ what you linked to? Former pres Carter said comparing Obama to Hitler or saying they should have buried Obama when they buried Ted Kennedy is going too far and you know what? He is right. You want to say he is a shitty POTUS? Fine I agree with you as a matter of fact, but comparing him to one of the biggest mass murderers in history is not only ridiculous but an insult to all those that suffered to get rid of the Nazis in WWII. There is a difference between dissent and being a troll, and I think most of us would agree the Bushhitler and Obamahitler posters were just that, trolling.

As for TFA well surprise surprise to quote Gomer Pile, you send all the manufacturing overseas to a country that has been artificially lowering the value of ITS currency to make sure imports tank and exports rise, a not nice thing to do in the first place, and then you're shocked they may be doing other not nice things like pwning the gear they sell you? Can we get a DUH boys and girls? The very same country that was paying dirt farmers in Kosovo to dig up our crashed F117 so they could steal the tech, THAT country? Naaah, what makes you think they'd do anything naughty?

To paraphrase a line from one of my favorite movies "Why do you think they are so big? Its because they fucking steal, every idea that ain't nailed down" and what better way to steal ideas that put a bunch of backdoors, rootkits, and other nasties on the products that we are hooked on like crack?

Geez...who would have ever thought that moving all our manufacturing, especially of IT components offshore would have engendered these types of risks???

[rolls eyes]

Seems like now...setting up an expensive chip fabrication plant, all in the US, would be a profitable business venture...market to the US federal govt. only US made electronics, certified not to have foreign malware contained within? Not only would they buy the higher priced components, but would easily pay a premium on top of that for a nice profit.

It would go down good with politicos too...due to creating new US jobs.

It would be even cheaper to buy a nice, respectable-looking pre-aged shell company [nevada-corporation.com](complete with years of respectable history, in a state with corporate disclosure rules approximately as stiff as Somalia's... Add a lawyer as a corporate officer to gain attorney-client privilege for just a small additional fee!) and then sell counterfeit parts re-marked as True, Blue, All-American ones.

If you suffer the comparatively unlikely misfortune of getting caught, just fold the shell and buy another one! It's not like you are dealing pot or anything serious, so the risk of having the consequences make it past your corporate person and back to you personally are well worth the profit...

I think you are correct in assuming that US made government certified tech would not have foreign malware in it. It would only contain US government certified malware put there in place to spy on "the bad guys"

The conservatives and libertarians passed laws to give corporations tax breaks for shipping jobs overseas, and they have filibustered every attempt the Democrats made at ending the whole rewarding-companies-for-putting-Americans-out-of-work thing. Not only would this not "go down good with politicos", there's a fair chance that you'll be accused of being a traitor and experience the joy of being flooded with anonymous death threats from freepers and the like.

Geez...who would have ever thought that moving all our manufacturing, especially of IT components offshore would have engendered these types of risks???

And you don't think that if we kept IT component fabrication here that the US government wouldn't be putting their spyware inside? At the rate our government is becoming less-transparent, I'd expect the spy agencies to do such a thing. I remember laughing at that old take-off of the Intel logo that said "Big Brother Inside". That's one reason that opensource hardware is such a cool idea.

I don't quite follow that. As much as I dislike the whole concept of the DHS: of course he is aware of foreign technology being imported with spyware, it's his job to be aware of threats like that. It's not a new threat either [theregister.co.uk].

It might potentially be treasonous not to do something about it - but he didn't admit to that, quite to the contrary he gave evidence to the actions they are taking and ought to take.

BTW is "interested foreign parties" our new code for "China"? Just curious.

Well, it'd be easier to catch impropriety here than in China or Taiwan. At least Wikileaks and myriad of other groups aren't afraid of releasing evidence of wrong doing committed by the US entities, and we have plenty of whistleblowers with public interest in mind to provide them the data. If we depend on China for supply, what leaks organisation will dare keep them in check? I suspect no one.

Unfortunately companies doesn't realize that offshoring construction in the long run is a bad idea because it doesn't develop their processes much and it drains the country from money. Automation of manufacturing processes will also mean that you have to get rid of employees but you will still keep the money circulation at home.

So in the end this means that the US and Europe are bound to lose if they can't cover for the trade deficit that appears.

When you have broad legal rights to flash a warrant and a gun(or skip the warrant, if that is too much hassle) and get the access you want within your area of jurisdiction, insecure systems are not in your interest: you want highly secure systems that people are legally obligated to unlock at your request.

The legal right to demand access to a system is a monopoly. The ability to access a system by exploiting its bugs is a power shared with

When you have broad legal rights to flash a warrant and a gun(or skip the warrant, if that is too much hassle) and get the access you want within your area of jurisdiction, insecure systems are not in your interest: you want highly secure systems that people are legally obligated to unlock at your request.

insightful, in the true sense of the word. (but I wish it wasn't this that you were so insightful about; this isn't exactly good news, really).

An attack like this could have a few purposes. The 2 that come to mind for me are: (1) growing a botnet to steal information from unsuspecting users (and other botnet type uses), or (2) having a specific target in-mind and using broad attacks and hope you penetrate the target.

The virus that hit the nuclear material processing plant in Iran was a piece of Malware that infected thousands and thousands of systems, but its ultimate goal was just a few machines. If these tainted components that enter the US ha

Go watch the video of the hearing and listen to what Schaffer actually said. All he says is that he is aware of cases in which products have come into the US with vulnerabilities. He doesn't say a thing about it being done intentionally or that China is doing it or anyone else is doing it. The question was crappy and badly worded, too.
52 minute mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFlgaJa4UVk [youtube.com]

in fact, I think I recognize that. isn't that the computer history museum at the old SGI site in mtn view?

just seems strange to show a photo of a computer museum. if anything, those old computers would be more trustable now, compared to the complex 'dont know really what is entirely inside' boxes we have now. (I'm half serious).

During questioning, Schaffer said that a whole-of-government effort would be required to combat security holes caused by malware and spyware making their way through America's electronics supply chain.

dunno. doesn't that look a bit like a plea for more (intrusive) government powers?

The emergence of new centers for manufacturing, design, and research across the globe raises concerns about the potential for easier subversion of computers and networks through subtle hardware or software manipulations. Counterfeit products have created the most visible supply problems, but few documented examples exist of unambiguous, deliberate subversions.

conterfeit products.

ugh.

first of all, SONY comes to mind as a master rootkit installer. was this counterfeit? hardly! most recognizeable brand name, perhaps, in the world.

second, I would not trust brand names any more or less than 'counterfeit' brands. this does seem like a 'request' for more powers of search/seizure or whatever.

A while ago I bought this neat little toy from a wholesale shopping club, supposed to show the current and forecast local weather. The device was wireless, and came with a wireless broadcast device that plugged into your internet connection. While setting up the device it became clear that the wireless link was bidirectional, with information about the wireless device showing up on the controlling web page. While the company was based in the US, the device was manufactured in China.

doesn't this bring up the old notion of 'unknown code' or code that you can't verify?

systems are so complex, I doubt ANYONE could totally verify the typical desktop pc that we all have. maybe 20 years ago, individuals could actually audit and know everything that goes on inside. today, impossible. even whole teams can't know all that goes on inside, hw and sw, both. add in a network connection and, well, good luck!

if the DHS really cared about security, they'd be pushing for ALL open soruce hardware and

In fact, passive RFID chips are so small and dense (and designed in USA or Europe) there is no room for extra functionality. At best there would be a dozen or so extra transistors sprinkled around. When you are trying to make millions of devices, the more chips you can pack on a wafer yeilds more profit. Also, every extra transistor affects sensitivity.

Finally, these RFID tags are read by a reader. So in theory, one attack vector could be SQL injection. ID lengths are like 96 bits. Not a lot of room

The problem with compromised hardware wouldn't have existed, or at least not on that scale, if it wasn't for the fact that devices are increasingly connected to the Internet. If it wasn't for that, you would have no way to control your compromised hardware. So at most you could make it defective at some level, or make it become defective after a set period of time. It's the equivalent of remote control bomb vs time bomb - the time bomb is essentially 'dumb', it can't be controlled. The point is you can't us