Asylum seeker problem won't quietly go away

As the Federal Government has learned, if it chooses not to speak about asylum seekers, plenty of others will step in to fill the void, writes Paul Karp.

The deaths of 31 asylum seekers at sea are an unspeakable tragedy which should cause Australians to reject cruel policies which are evidently still incapable of deterring the perilous journeys.

The tragedy and the response to it also shows why attempts to slow the 24-hour news cycle in general - and hide the failure of asylum seeker policy in particular - are doomed to failure.

Government attempts to reduce media scrutiny on boat arrivals had already got off to a poor start. First, it shifted from a policy of total blackout on the issue to weekly briefings by Scott Morrison. The early signs were that the media would still get the information in a timely and accurate manner, thanks to journalists and citizens on Christmas Island like local councillor Gordon Thomson, who is tweeting news of boat arrivals.

The second crack in the plan was demonstrated by the tragedy of a boat sinking off Java on Friday, with 24 asylum seekers perishing at sea, a toll which may rise to 50 or more. With the Government initially refusing to comment, all the Australian public had to go off was the claim that asylum seekers had been abandoned. Survivors from the tragedy said the rescue effort took 26 hours despite them giving Australian authorities GPS coordinates and being promised help in just two hours. Despite the preference for weekly briefings, Scott Morrison was forced to give two briefings in the space of two days to deny the claims.

The wisdom of not announcing the boats is debatable, although we should be deeply suspicious of any such limitation of information in a free society. Most people saw it as a disgusting ploy to escape accountability, to con Australians into believing that an irresponsible election promise had been fulfilled, not by stopping the boats but by hiding them. Some believed that while that may have been the intention of the policy, it may yet have a silver lining if it made the Australian public less fearful of boat arrivals. It might have proved galling to reward the party which has done the most to whip up fear on the issue, but if the Coalition stopped feeding the beast, we might have found our way to a more humane policy.

But the events of the past week show that radio silence is not an option. What it shows is that if the Government says nothing, someone else will fill the vacuum. This week it was the victims of Australia's asylum seeker policy, who the Government said were in Indonesia's search and rescue zone - as if any human beings are ever outside our jurisdiction when we have the capacity to protect them.

But in the coming years on this and other issues, people will be lining up to fill the vacuum: the Labor opposition (especially when they have a new leader); disgruntled backbenchers, enigmatic Nationals or former Coalition parliamentarians; and sectional interests or lobby groups, whether they be unions, rent-seeking corporations, or disadvantaged groups.

The Government is naive to think it can change the fundamentals of the 24-hour news cycle. Just because it promises to be a government of "no surprises" that will "only make announcements when it has something to say" does nothing to change the fact that column inches will have to be filled. Tony Abbott may try and cultivate a reputation like that which Barry O'Farrell appears to enjoy as a "do-nothing" (and impliedly, therefore, do-no-harm) premier. But as social and economic problems emerge and develop, inaction and failure to communicate will be criticised just as heavily as any particular policy response.

The Howard government promised to decide "who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come". The results of that mindset are there for all to see this week. The Abbott Government goes one step further - to determine what we know about who comes to this country, and therefore the circumstances in which we can talk about it.

The Australian people and the media will not be controlled in this way, and will continue to hold the Government to account. They will be forced to break their silence eventually, as Morrison was this week.

The sooner the Government focuses on real solutions to the tragedy of deaths at sea and other public policy problems, the sooner they will have a good-news story to tell. But not this week. The Abbott Government starts with the ignominious record of being both a do-nothing and say-nothing government.

Paul Karp is a freelance journalist with interests in Australian politics and social policy. View his full profile here.

Comments (532)

Robert:

30 Sep 2013 2:51:33pm

When looking at this problem let's compare. Labor had this matter for 6 years and couldn't achieve any success, Tony Abbott has been there for what? a couple of weeks and already you're yelling failure...nonsense, Tony's doing just great and when so called asylam seekers are complaining you just know it's working.Keep at it Tony,you're the best!

reaver:

Dr B S Goh, Australian in Asia:

30 Sep 2013 7:32:03pm

PM Abbott and LNP Govt must persevere and stop the boatpeople once and for all.

Our Big Brother and Human Rights Hero had hundreds of thousands of boatpeople. In 1996 it introduced the Wet Feet and Dry Feet Policy. No boatpeople is accepted for asylum. It is the only proven method to stop a significant boatpeople problem.

The blame for the boatpeople problem is due to Rudd and the ALP Govt which demolished Howard's effective border control in 2008.

Tom1:

01 Oct 2013 8:39:56am

DrBS. I have been following politics keenly for years. Although I have difficulty in agreeing with LNP philosophy I did think that in his early days Howard was at least honest. He lost it when he decided that winning an election by persecuting boat arrivals was more important than bipartisanship. This action was the cause of the current problem, and no amount of LNP followers claiming otherwise can change that.

Your view of history overlooks the fact unless both parties work together on this issue, one liners will not do it.

Abbott when he had the chance, for a second time backed down. His attitude of "We do not want their consent, we want their understanding" has toned down to grovelling.

I do not criticise his now common sense attitude towards Indonesia, but his outlandish opportunism over this issue before the election is to be deplored.

Robert:

Tom1:

01 Oct 2013 12:16:20pm

I have just heard the actual tape of John Howard telling the Australian people that "We do not want in this country people that would throw their children into the sea." He also commented that people must have stood by whilst children were plucked up and thrown into the water. These despicable lies by Howard are followed up by Peter Reith stating that there were photos showing that this occurred, and that he did not doubt the veracity of these photos.

No wonder Labor objected.

Hearing the tape again after all these years leaves one breathless as to the extent some politician will go to stay in office.

Wave2surf:

01 Oct 2013 1:32:34pm

My best mate is a captain of a ship.

His comments, having read the report was

Yes it was a lie that children were thrown overboard, but that would have been preferable to what they actually did, they sabotaged the boat so it would sink. The Navy then have no option but to rescue.It was far more dangerous than throwing a kid with a life jacket in the water, after all, you can then pick them up, if you have sunk your own boat, there is no option to pick people up, you just have to hope someone else pick you up, in this case the Navy.

Unfortunately, the seriousness of what actually happened was lost in the political storm of the lie.

And I think It was Peter Reiths lie, he was not re contesting his seat, was the minister of defense, was told the truth, but didn't pass it on to Howard.

hypnotizing chickens:

30 Sep 2013 7:58:19pm

I just watched the 7;30 report.

Is it any wonder the issue is inflamed in Indonesia. The ABC sends countless 'journalists' to Indonesia interviewing and stirring up the Indonesian politicians suggesting Abbott is trying to invade their sovereignty.

The ABC in particular will never let the issue die until we have open boarders just like the green party wants.

Over the last decade the ABC, through its extensive TV, radio and multimedia networks, must have broadcast at least 5000 pro refugee/open boarder stories and probably 5 suggesting the system is being rorted.

Matt:

01 Oct 2013 7:18:39am

Why is the ABC pushing this particular barrow so hard? It is the only mainstream media in which I have any modicum of faith, but my lifelong love and interest is being substantially diminished by this suspicious behaviour. I have lived for a third of my adult life in regions from which the asylum seekers originate, as an educator, which gives a more intimate than most knowledge of the people, and while I can say compassion is a noble virtue, this situation is being grossly misrepresented. It is what lets the Greens down as well, what is really going on here. I beg for others to render a few theories.

Alpo:

01 Oct 2013 1:27:17pm

What's your insider knowledge Matt? Why are those people risking their lives to come to Australia? Why are they risking to drown with their children, wife... to come here? Probably because the risk of death at sea in order to have a chance for a better life is worthwhile running when you come from the hellhole they come from?

The well cashed up come by air, with a tourist visa, land here and quickly disappear into the community.... but nobody talks about them. Why?

Tom1:

Paul101. You are of course right. Richard Alston, Howard Government Minister started this slander against the ABC to the point he had an inquiry which came up blank.

Howard stacked the ABC Board, but still they were not satisfied.

The trouble with followers of the Coalition, including their politicians is that they have lost any perspective of reality. When they hear the truth, it is foreign to them. "The ABC does not agree with us so it must be stopped. It is too left wing"

These same people are happy to believe that Abbott can simply make the boat people problem a national emergency, turn back the boats, go into Indonesia and buy boats, insert spies into villages, and all will be well. They are happy to believe this, and wonder why all of the nation is not as stupid. And of course to ther mind the ABC should laud such rubbish.

One thing about Abbott, he does not appear as stupid as he makes out, or has treated his supporters. It is obvious that having won the election in a very underhanded way, he knows that the people he once treated with disdain, are not as stupid as some Australians, and a little bit of grovelling will do the trick.

baz471:

01 Oct 2013 12:12:22pm

There is no censorship. The government has opted to release statements on a weekly basis. The ABC has no intrinsic right to demand daily or hourly updates. The ABC is an entertainment network, financed with public money and I am not aware that the public has requested the ABC to take up the role of policing the output of the government. Time we all demanded a review od how the ABC is spending our tax dollars.

Tom1:

01 Oct 2013 1:28:02pm

baz. When trying to demean the ABC, or show concern over "Our tax dollars"a little bit of realism, or less spin would help. Sky news' most fawning Abbott sycophant, Paul Murray, last night on his usual ranting anti Labor show spared a little time to criticise, (faintly of course) the Coalition's secrecy.

If you care to observe impartially, most news outlets consider that Abbott's latest brain explosion is not sustainable.

I am sure that with a little encouragement from from those that only want to hear what suits the coalition, the current Government will once again go through the futile exercise of having an inquiry into the ABC's impartiality.

hypnotizing chickens:

Actually for about the last 6 months of the labor/green guvament the ABC stopped reporting on individual boat arrivals. they did this, i assume, to help the labor/greens.

Now the ABC/green/alp alliance is suggesting that the LNP is hiding something by not reporting individual boat arrivals. Why the change?

What would we in Oz think if we had a continuous line up of Indonesian government 'journalists' interviewing our back benchers, ministers and government officials, asking them what they thought of Indonesian military helping tens of thousands illegal immigrants break our laws?

Of course we would think that's wrong and it shouldn't be happening and the Indonesian guvament is playing us for fools. It may not even be true. but we assume the Indonesian media must be telling the truth.

Imagine if we were fed this for years.

The ABC do not want to report the news they want to become part of the news. Well done to MIKE MOORE and the whole ABC 'FRONTLINE' team.

GK:

01 Oct 2013 9:07:42am

I'm currently in Indonesia and I can assure you that the local networks are covering this widely and in not too positive a light. Quite different from just three weeks ago. Has nothing to do with the ABC, has everything to do with already badly managed relations with our neighbour.

Bob:

01 Oct 2013 10:23:00am

I agree hypnotizing.The ABC are irresponsible in the constant stirring up of trouble between this government and the Indonesians.Their reporters have verballed and miss represented the Indonesian and Australian foriegn ministers. They are worse than school children running form one side to the other saying she said that about you and then going to the other side saying that they said this about you. All of it half truths designed to cause trouble.For a national broadcaster to deliberately damage relations between Australia and it's closest nieghbour for political purposes is apalling and disgusting. They should be held responsible.

Mitor the Bold:

30 Sep 2013 8:04:54pm

Claiming victory now is as premature as claiming failure - it's still early days, so let's see what he can do by Christmas or so.

He's already succeeded, though, in making us all believe that the measure of success or failure in our humanitarian responsibilities is in how many desperate refugees we can refuse entry to our prosperous, spacious nation. It's typical of Catholic hypocrisy that success is measured in symbols and material rather than people.

Frank:

01 Oct 2013 12:23:00am

No hard line has been applied yet, and all the noise is coming from the bleeding hearts. The social consequences of Rudd and Gillards mess will be there for all to see in twenty years time but of course the do-gooders will all be pulling their heads in then/.

LH:

01 Oct 2013 9:15:06am

Here we go again with the "bleeding heart" insult! I, for one, am proud to be labelled with that tag! Without the "bleeding hearts" of the past, we would not enjoy the lives we all enjoy now! Why is it so necessary to refer to people who care about others in such a way? Do you enjoy ANY of the benefits of progressive policies made during history? Like wages, perhaps? Or libraries? Or public health? or a pension? Stick to the debate!

Frank:

01 Oct 2013 10:05:41am

All fought and earned for "L.H" but you probably expect everyone else to pay for your social conscience. I've just returned from one area where the do-gooders and social engineers have plenty to answer for but of course have slinked away leaving a mess behind......Some areas in Australia are already showing signs of the same, yet you lot keep shoving down our throats. Call me racist, whatever you like really, but don't expect me to go along with your weak and stupid idealistic ways of handouts and support for those breaching our border security.

struck dumb:

01 Oct 2013 11:04:42am

Perhaps instead of the continual bleating about the boats, our bleeding hearts could do something practical and start campaigning noisily for a speed-up of Caberra's refugee checks and processing. It makes a snail look like a grand prix driver! Get the message out that documents are necessary for a speedy entry into Australia. Get some movement into the legal processing and make it more attractive, so that desperate people do not risk their lives and that of their children in leaky boats.We are slowly accepting so very few refugees who have had their status confirmed by the UNHCR, and this has caused the bottleneck that frustrates those seeking our help.

BJA:

01 Oct 2013 5:22:21am

How do you know?And by the way Abbott said that Labor was responsible for the 1000 odd drowned while they were in government.Who was responsible for those hundreds drowned when there was the Howard Government and who is responsible for those drowning now?It's a tough act this even handed trick, isn't itI see that you're not wearing a blue tie - but your blue petticoat is showing.

Id:

01 Oct 2013 7:50:00am

What I am reading makes me ashamed to be an Australian.Not a single one of these "keep them out" lot have the faintest idea of what it means to live in a devastated country, not knowing who is friend and who is a deadly enemy.Not a single one of them lifted a finger to create our living conditions. That was done by the effort of, and at the expense of, the despised trade unions.It is so pathetic to hear bludgers calling others bludgers.I hope they remember how many of the people of Darwin, and the troops, ran when they were bombed.No sympathy for them either?

Bob:

01 Oct 2013 10:38:18am

American and Australian troops have died in these peoples countries to give them the opportunity to get rid of the Taliban and Sadam Hussien so they can have a democracy, self determination and to improve their own country. Yet they did not help us. They accused us of invading their country in self righteous indignation and asked us to leave. The best opportunity to make their own country safe was thrown back in our faces. The least they could have done was to help us help them. Now the best they can manage is to run away.All they are doing is making the rest of the world just like what they are running away from.A quote on the RSL building "those not willing to fight for freedom do not deserve it".

Mick:

01 Oct 2013 11:56:33am

this is exactly why it is important to send them back to fight for their own country. We are getting the cowards not the gutsy people or polite ones. ( the polite and respectful ones wait in camps and are invited to other lands and we should have bleeding hearts for them. ) we need more of these genuine people not the pushy , sly cowards we are getting who are flush with money to give to smuggler criminals. The best way forward is to send them back with some military training, a weapon and uniform to go and protect/fight for their own country especially in those peaceful religion countries to build new democracies based on truth, freedom and justice.

Zoltar:

01 Oct 2013 11:01:08am

Paul, it would have been celebration at the new openness.

During the Rudd/Gillard years the media was notified of boat arrivals, but only rarely was the public directly informed. Some media outlets passed all this information onto the public, others were more selective. Which resulted in those who relied upon the ABC for their news, being under the illusion that many fewer boats had arrived, than was actually the case.

To the best of my knowledge, there existed no government website where you could find a list of boat arrivals. Labor did provide information on the number of people in immigration detention, but when the numbers started to get embarrassing, these reports ceased appearing.

jennbrad:

01 Oct 2013 11:12:03am

Why? Surely setting a time interval for briefings is idiotic. Sometimes you wouldn't need to brief for several weeks, sometimes several times in a single week. Wouldn't it make more sense to initiate briefings when there was something to report?

joker:

01 Oct 2013 7:28:06am

'They ignored the pleas of the latest boat and sunk killing mainly children.'

The boat was in Indonesian waters, just 50 metres off shore before it started breaking up. What of the adults on board (especially the men) they are the ones who let the children drown, not the Australian government. However I believe people like you allow them drown by encouraging the asylum seekers to come to Australia in boats.

Anon E Mouse:

01 Oct 2013 10:51:51am

I instantly thought of the sinking of the govt vessel the Malu Sara in the Torres Strait in 2005 when hearing that people called Australia for help. What emerged from that tragic event where there was a total loss of life of those on board, was some very sad examples of public servants in the search and rescue area who had total disdain for those on the boat. I am sure you can find these statements online.

Now, seeing a similar delay - and it doesn't matter where it happened - and then the major silence on the issue from govt, it is eerily similar to the Malu Sara sinking.

Fyi I believe we need to find a humane way to stop people using the people smuggling pathway via sea for a number of reasons.

Stereotyping people into negative categories, particularly those with a different view from you, is not helpful.

Tony, you are quick to lash out and judge folk, - that is exactly the reasoning behind the failures to provide help to the Malu Sara. After that disaster, I am just plain cynical about what we are being told by govt media spin agents.

If the govt was fair dinkum about the people smugglers, they would be following the money trails - forensic accountancy - but sadly it is too easy to just portray people as less than human and therefore somehow deserving of the horrors that befall them.

struck dumb:

01 Oct 2013 11:13:17am

That boat was unfortunately in Indonesian waters, so our navy could not just barge in and do something without permission from the diplomats, and that takes time! It was the Indonesian authorities who stood by and watched what happened, along with the men who swam to shore, and the authorities claim the sea was too rough to mount any rescue attempt. If the seas were as rough as claimed, that would also have slowed our response time, even assuming the nearest naval boat was in Darwin.The Indonesians have already made it quite clear they view any interference from us as a violation of their sovereignty. What do you want? WW3? or a humane solution, which unfortunately is going to take time and a lot of good will from everyone.

Falcon:

30 Sep 2013 6:23:42pm

What you seem to forget is that Tony and the coalition said that the boats would stop "from day 1" They haven't. At least three boats have arrived on our shores since they were sworn in.They have even used an agreement negotiated by the previous government and Indonesia to return those they have rescued near Indonesia to Indonesia. Those that have arrived are being processed off-shore as they would have been under the previous government. The only difference is that we don't have Morrison and Abbot on the TV telling us how the government has lost control of our borders and what a lot of no-hopers the government are. In fact they aren't saying anything much on anything.

rudski:

CC:

30 Sep 2013 7:58:22pm

Falcon, this campaign you are espousing along with ABC radio and TV is deplorable.Abbott said he would make a difference from Day 1and he has.He has dived into the problem and is trying according to his promise to bring this problem to an end.All we hear is a ridiculous campaign.The government doesn't have to tell you or Leigh Sales every day what they are doing.

Tom1:

01 Oct 2013 9:47:55am

Tony: Spin is a great weapon in politics. It works on you. Of course Abbott knew that he could not stop the boats on day one. However he did use that expression on many occasions rather than , as you indicate, "From day one we will work towards stopping the boats" which does not have any political impact.

Of course it is what reasonable people expect so the term he used was just to deceive the gullible.

Even without Labor obstructing him he has not stopped any boats, and people have drowned, even though no fault of the Australian Govt. However had they stopped on day one, they would not have drowned.

Labor was prevented from introducing their Malaysian solution by the opposition (Because they did not want the boats to stop), and the only thing that seems to be working is Labor's New Guinea policy.

Abbott is in the real world now. It will be interesting to see how he handles it.

rudski:

John51:

30 Sep 2013 9:03:35pm

You can now make that 4 boats since last Monday. So I have no idea how his supporters here can say he seems to be making great progress. Sorry to me that seems to be living in a state of delusion or treating the rest of us as fools.

And all of this chest beating seems to totally ignore all of the lives that have just been lost.

reaver:

01 Oct 2013 11:52:26am

The boats are slowing and Abbott has done twice in a week what Labor did once in a year- return asylum seekers to Indonesia. It's far from conclusive that the issue will be solved, but at least we're finally moving in the right direction.

Peter Graham:

01 Oct 2013 6:57:57am

No they didn't Falcon, another Labor lie. They said they would start to put their policies, to stop the boats, in place from day one. Big difference there, don't worry about it though just keep drivelling through your beard. You have plenty of support on here.

Andy:

Paul01:

01 Oct 2013 9:53:35am

And where are the libs sending asylum seekers Andy?

To Manus and Nauru.

Who set the policy and camps in place?

Boat arrivals were declining prior to the election.

I call you on your "I wouldn't care", you would be screaming about censorship to all and any because you must know that it is unforgivable for elected representatives to try and restrict the free flow of information for base political purposes.

enno:

Andie:

And who had closed Manus and Nauru and pillored the LNP for having used them for off shore detention?????

How much did it cost us to reopen camps on Manus and Nauru that Rudd and Gillard had crowed about closing when they dismantled a policy that had stopped the boats?????

Rudd and Gillard have overseen one of the greatest failures of policy we will ever see - 50,000+ illegal arrivals, 1200+ deaths at sea and tens of billions cost to the taxpayers already and for the next decade as the mess is cleaned up.

Tom1:

01 Oct 2013 10:02:06am

Andy: Let us get real here. If the instant briefing of the Australian public was so detrimental to solving the boat people question, why did Abbott and Morrison have daily, even hourly news conferences deploring the arrival of more boats, and blow by blow descriptions of every detail. That is not to even mention the bill boards.

Are we to believe that it suited the Coalition to undermine Australian boarder policy if it helped to elect a LNP Government. That is the logic conclusion of your argument.

Tony cannot walk on water, or raise the dead. He only thinks he can. However three years in a Seminary has not given him that power. He does not know it but he is a mere mortal.

Anon E Mouse:

Mitor the Bold:

30 Sep 2013 8:08:24pm

He can do what he likes for the first 18-months of his reign - he knows we'll all forget. The people who decide (swinging bigots in outer intelligentsia) don't exactly rely on factual information for their decision-making anyway.

joker:

01 Oct 2013 7:36:36am

'The people who decide (swinging bigots in outer intelligentsia) don't exactly rely on factual information for their decision-making anyway.'

If only the poor ' (swinging bigots in outer intelligentsia)' were a smart as you MtB, then Labor and the Greens would finally be in government never to ousted, questioned, held to account or ridiculed, eh.

Mitor the Bold:

01 Oct 2013 8:27:25am

They just were in charge. But they were not voted out because of what they'd achieved or not achieved, but because of what they'd not delivered to the baying crowd (read: half-educated handout coters who like to blame everyone else for the poor life decisions they've made).

Whomovedmycheese:

30 Sep 2013 8:14:57pm

How is Australia responsible when the boat goes down 50 metres from Indonesia? The media are slurring the good work of our defence force when they publish rubbish headlines like Australia fails to provide assistance. This is not Australian waters this not even international waters it is Indonesia. Would you hold the NZ navy responsible for a trawler sinking in cairns. Ridiculous.

Paul01:

Tom1:

01 Oct 2013 10:11:16am

cheesy: I would be the last to demean our defence forces. However no one really knows where the boat was when it first signalled it was in distress. That is the problem with media blackouts, people are left to their own imaginations.

This also is a problem with using our armed forces in civil operations. Who knows what a civilian politician (Morrison) is likely to instruct military officers to do? Morrison has a political agenda. The armed forces should be left to carry out what are accepted norms and conventions.

enno:

01 Oct 2013 12:03:55pm

Utter uninformed drivel. One of the key principles of the western democracy, is that the armed forces act at the direction of the responsible parties in the civilian government - the PM and the Minister for Defence.

Otherwise, you get a situation like Egypt or Pakistan or South America where the military thinks that they can, and should, intervene in government whenever they feel like it.

Anon E Mouse:

GRF:

30 Sep 2013 9:36:14pm

The question of the moral responsibility for the lives lost at sea is an important one. And this question is much more pertinent for the Labor party, under whose stewardship there were more than one thousand deaths at sea.

First and foremost, the responsibility lies with those who profit by these activities; this includes the people smugglers and any officials getting kick-backs.

Secondly those who pay to board the boats, knowing they are not seaworthy, with the express purpose of thwarting Australian immigration laws, bear responsibility not only for any loss of their own lives, but, by providing financial incentive to the trade, are also partly responsible for the deaths of others at sea.

Thirdly, those who deliberately place children on the boats in the hope this will facilitate their own entry by family re-union, bear direct responsibility for the deaths of these children should that eventuate.

But nowhere in this list is the Australian Government. No. Labor is not morally responsible for the deaths at sea that eventuated under their watch. Their action in dismantling the Howard measures was foolish, irresponsible and driven by what they saw as their own political interests. But the blame for the deaths belongs with those engaging in the trade.

reaver:

Mike North:

30 Sep 2013 6:46:53pm

My thoughts exactly, We have a had the Monday briefing from Misnister Scott Morrison and have been informed in detail of the weeks events.The Acting Commander Air Marshall Mark Buskin has explained the details of the rescue operation and the effort undertaken to act.All detainess have been moved or in the process.Some returned to Indonesia or about to be returned to India.I think its a far cry from the no control, helpless state the nation was floundering in over the last few years. The Government is acting on the issue. The knockers are just that, knockers. I am willing to wait at leat 6 months before casting judgement on the present governments abbility, direction and intention.

enno:

Rhonda:

30 Sep 2013 10:47:24pm

Well Mike, you say the government 'is acting on the issue'. In actual fact, with the exception of their irresponsible fast-tracking of asylum seekers within 48 hours (which could create health risks), the policy this government is 'acting on' is the one created by the Labor government!

The hastily-promoted 3 Star General who should have be there for the Coalition's entry into government, opted to go on a holiday instead, so his stand-in Mark Buskin fronted the media. Yes, he gave details of the rescue operation plus previous boat arrivals. He also mentioned another boat arrived overnight, but he stated we will have to wait until next Monday's briefing to be given the details. WT...??

I don't consider this a satisfactory 'briefing' in any way - especially when the Minister responsible (for want of a better word) walks out when journalists are still asking questions. The same Minister I might add, who happily stood before the media ad nausea on a daily basis, prior to the election, bagging Labor - especially over the policy they are now running with.

Barj:

01 Oct 2013 12:51:21am

Would you be willing to wait six months before complaining if you were one of the refugees? Would you be willing to wait six months before complaining if the government removed some of your entitlements without telling you? History tells us that you should consider that possibility carefully because it has followed the action of governments gagging of the press before.

Andy:

01 Oct 2013 7:55:38am

the six months was with respect to the ability of the govt to deter boat arrivals of refugees so we can take more of the refugees waiting in refugee camps, who can't and wont pay people smugglers to get them processed and settled faster in australia.

would you rather we carry on with the armada of boat arrivals, taking the places of people who wait in an oderly fashion in the UN camps? with the many deaths at sea that the left didn't give a stuff about while the ALP were in power?

Rhonda:

01 Oct 2013 12:14:45pm

..'with the many deaths at sea that the left didn't give a stuff about while the ALP were in power?'

Andy, that's an outright lie and you know it. In fact, the Gillard government even sought the help of an independent panel in an attempt to solve this complex and distressing issue, but the Coalition blocked its full implementation. Their intention was to drag the asylum seeker issue out until this election (which they tried to bring about, for the past three years), so the very last thing they wanted was a solution. Deaths at sea was an added bonus.

Remember Tony Abbott (trying to further obstruct) demanded an increase of the refugee intake numbers to 20,000, which Labor readily agreed to, but since then the Coalition have gone back on their own demands and cut it back to 12,000?

Remember the billboard declaring the number of boat arrivals? I've seen footage of Tony Abbott gleefully changing the figures as another boat arrived. Scott Morrison was on tv every other day, hardly able to contain his pleasure when the numbers increased, especially when tragedies occurred. They milked the asylum seeker issue for everything they could.

Remember when Kevin Rudd implemented the PNG policy? Scott Morrison rushed to decry it each and every day holding up a piece of paper, calling it simply a bluff. This only served to give people smugglers a message to 'come on down - nothing's changed'.

Now, not only are Morrison and Tony Abbott dodging the media for the most part, when they do give a briefing they won't divulge any details 'so as not to give people smugglers any information which might jeopardize Australia's operations'. Scott Morrison was happy to LIE about Labor's PNG policy which could have jeopardized the whole operation, but now they are happy to implement it.

What a bunch of hypocrites. I'm wondering how much it will take before those who voted for them, see this government for the frauds they are...

Andie:

Roger:

01 Oct 2013 2:28:45pm

Just to clarify here, Rhonda. You accept that it was a mistake for the Rudd government to have reversed the Howard Pacific solution in 2007/8, believed and supported the farce that was Gillard's East Timor fiasco, supported the Malaysia solution (even though it was decried as heartless by the Greens and was so incompetently put together that the High Court disallowed it), and fully support the Rudd PNG plan. You are making progress! Happy to accept that those who called for the abandonment of the Pacific Solution have the blood of some 2000 dead on their hands, too? Even more progress. Now all you have to do is accept that, at last, we have adults in charge, who will again fix up Labor's mess. See, it wasn't that hard, was it?

Barj:

01 Oct 2013 12:49:20pm

The choice should not be either or. If our government drastically increased the number of refugees accepted from the people waiting in an orderly fashion in the UN camps then the numbers arriving in the people smugglers leaky boats should decrease just as drastically. But for that to happen we need to face up to some facts that, though glaringly obvious, have been completely ignored.

Fact number one. Our country is not small. It is big.

Fact number two. Our population is not big. It is small and particularly small when compared with that of Indonesia.

Fact number three. All of us who are not Aboriginals or Torres Strait islanders are refugees or descended from refugees. Some came in boats. Some came in planes. Some came in chains. All came uninvited by either Aboriginals or Torres Strait islanders.

maggie:

30 Sep 2013 6:53:46pm

actually the boats were going down after the png solution even though the monk still was yelling about them, he said the png solution was no good but decided it was good after he got elected, I don't think he has the brains or the understanding of the situation and is now putting our navy in the firing line to be blamed for any thing he doesn't agree with, Look out with japan now offering aid to equal what Australia is giving for the use of their facilities it puts us in a very risky position. I don't think abbott has the brain power or the common sense needed to be a good leader. God help us all.

Ozziefried:

01 Oct 2013 8:50:05am

Ah yes, Abbott the Rhodes scholar - they were desperate for a 'scholar' from the colonies that year. Maggie is right, an intelligence deficit is in evidence in LNP ranks eg minister for sport but none for science, Duh! As to opinion(s) articulated on this forum re the current asylum seeker tragedy at sea: Abbott and mottley crew supported by Howard are choosing fortress Oz, push the boats back, blame Indonesia. No matter that emeritus gnome Howard participated in the destruction of Iraq where guess what? Yes some of these asylum seekers are from Iraq. In the seventies during the aftermath of the Vietnam war, Malcolm Fraser took a courageous decision by allowing those fleeing from Vietnam, arriving on the Australian shore illegally, a safe haven. His was a compassionate decision, an example that should be followed. Aside from our obligations at international law, I repeat, we have a moral obligation to assist those whose lives and homes Australians have to helped destroy.

Patricia:

01 Oct 2013 10:07:06am

Well said Ozziefried. I believe one of the retiring Liberal MP's said of Abbott that the year he won a Rhodes Scholarship was a very lean year in terms of eligible candidates. I have been observing Abbott for a long time; he is an intellectual lightweight and now a diplomatic disaster.

If the best the Liberal Party can offer up as leader is Abbott I don't know what it says about the rest.

Rhonda:

01 Oct 2013 12:26:25pm

CC, being a Rhodes Scholar is no proof of having common sense (as evidenced in Tony Abbott's case). (Some of it is awarded for sporting prowess for a start). But judging by your post, I can see you are easily influenced.

All Ears:

OntheRun:

01 Oct 2013 7:11:44am

Are you saying you voted for a Liberal candidate believing that a policy could be fully implemented and have full effect within one day?I hope your unrealistic expectations have not effected your mental health. This matter may not be the most important to you, but other matters all add up.

Paul01:

01 Oct 2013 8:59:45am

So your are accusing SBY of being aware of a few local coppers being corrupt and therefore SBY is trying to bully Australia in order to cover up that minor corruption in a country of 250 million people?

Amazing stuff.

Did you know that Indonesia is made up of over 8,000 island with 922 inhabited? How would you police small boats leaving so many islands?

Also remember it is not against the law for a group of people to get on a boat and sail out to sea, so how do you stop them?

Policy:

Mike 1:

01 Oct 2013 2:09:39pm

Great thinking Einstein, just cut off their food supplies. That would go down well with Aussie farmers don't you think ? It easy to see how Abbott conned you. What happens when 200,000,000 people come and take what they want ? I just don't believe you people.

Pegaso:

30 Sep 2013 10:04:20pm

Robert, unless you are only 6 years old, you will recall that Labor inherited the problem from Howard.Boats sunk, people died under his watch too.What we should be concerned about is that Indonesians dont form the view that Tony Abbott Conservativism is the flavour of choice for the majority of Australians.Australia must be very careful not to project a "superior than you" attitude in this Asian region.We must not emulate the Israelis who see themselves as superior to their Arab neighbors.The results of that attitude are very evident.One suspects Tony was in the Oxford boxing gym, the day that the subject of diplomacy and women's equality was presented to his class.

Herb Ray:

30 Sep 2013 11:32:04pm

Tony Abbot is doing us proud!I see plenty of sour grapes here today!-but who cares! He'll keep his wotd.Hopefully they'll close Aunty down soon!Its the 'Lemmings' stations piping vindictive left spin for the mindless to blindly follow over the cliffsLook at Q+A tonight the Laurel and Hardy show starring Albanesi and Shorten what dribble- Not to mention Julia Guillard everywhere !Obviously the feminist journos choice!Raking through her ashes hoping for a Phoenix

Barj:

01 Oct 2013 12:37:58am

Tony is not doing just great. His behavior in treating Australians and Indonesians with contempt, gagging the press and treating refugees as if they were not refugees but an invading force is thoroughly unacceptable.

Paul01:

Alexandra:

01 Oct 2013 5:59:58am

As Opposition Leader, Mr Abbott and his cronies shouted down from the roof tops and votes down any attempt by the former Government to find a solution to boat arrivals and implement them. If Tony Abbott had been serious about real action on boat arrivals he would have, as Opposition Leader, worked with the Government on measures to try and prevent further boats arriving because it was in the national interest to do so. But it would also have been the moral and humane thing to do. Mr Abbott?s choice was to work in a bipartisan way to find a solution or work on political advantage. We all know the path he chose.

To say that he is doing his best and we should give the guy a break because he has only been in Government a few weeks, is therefore disingenuous.

GrumpyOldMan:

01 Oct 2013 9:46:48am

Robert claims ... "Labor had this matter for 6 years and couldn't achieve any success, ..."

Now why was that? Maybe it was because the conservatives, shock jocks and the Murdoch press did everything they could to prevent Labor achieving any success because the longer the asylum seeker problem remains unsolved, the greater the chances of the conservatives regaining power.

The asylum seeker problem has ALWAYS been far more complex that Abbott's naive and simplistic slogans indicate. It is a regional problem, not just an Australian problem, or an Indonesian problem, or even a bi-lateral problem. It is a regional problem. In fact, as we now see around Syria, asylum seekers are a global problem which is intricately connected to wars, dictatorships, hate, ignorance, and religious and cultural intolerance.

Without these driving forces, I assert that the vast majority of people will be quite happy to live in their homelands, and not take the many risks of seeking refuge in another country. If they want to emigrate for economic reasons they will apply for visas and travel in comfort and safety by air. Do you not understand this? Abbott and Morrison clearly don't understand it.

Now we see Abbott crawling out of his policy gutter and trying to pretend his 'stop the boats' rhetoric was just something from the nightmares or left-wing fools.

Can you believe the hypocrisy of the man? He clearly will do anything, or say anything, to grab and retain power. And he will try to prevent anyone from noticing the difference between what he said he will do when in opposition, and what he will actually do in government when the stupidity of his slogans actually gets exposed.

Dr Jeckyll and Mr Hyde would feel quite at home in Tony Abbott's Australia!

reaver:

01 Oct 2013 12:10:00pm

Labor and their allies had control of both the House and the Senate, GrumpyOldMan, and they did so for both of their terms. They could have passed legislation dealing with this problem. They didn't. It's no-one's fault but their own that they changed the law and when it went very predicably pear shaped, didn't change it back.People who want to emigrate for economic reasons will apply for visas and travel in comfort and safety by air if, and only if, they are allowed to do so. If they're not allowed to do so then they'll use other methods, as the current global situation shows.

Tamarrah:

01 Oct 2013 9:53:26am

The aftermath of the Liberal six year campaign is reaching its inevitable conclusion having to duck out.

? But the most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly and with unflagging attention. It must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over. Here, as so often in this world, persistence is the first and most important requirement for success." said Adolf Hilter

to which Josef Goebbels added

?If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie ?can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.? ( or at least the propagandists version thereof)

My addendum is one can forgive politicians for lying, they will use any means they can get away with to take power, it is what they do. One can forgive Governments sponsored to promote corporate lobby interests in keeping stuff secret, thats how they operate. However in a democratic state one cannot forgive the people for not being intellectually and morally vigilant enough to see through the lies.

The boat people issue is a chimera, matter of no consequence. Howardists and now Abbottists, have managed to fabricate something like the Salem witch trials shared hysteria over bogeymen under the bed. That Australians have allowed themselves to be infected with this nonsense is a national disgrace. There is no solution because there is no problem just a Liberal legacy impulse to be crueler than thou and a public convinced to bay for blood.

pandora:

01 Oct 2013 10:34:12am

Depends on what sort of "progress" one thinks is desirable.

A humane, legal set of policies where no ones human rights are abused, no one illegally detained without charge or trial in either an on shore or offshore mental illness factory and where realistic safe pathways are created s people's lives can be saved and asylum offered without the necessity of taking a dangerous boat journey?

John Coochey j:

30 Sep 2013 2:57:01pm

It is rather hard to work out the purpose of this article but it is interesting the myths that sorround the issue boat arrivals. Some "on the left" have claimed that Australia ha signed conventions which allow refugees to come whenever and in whatever numbers they choose. That is not correct the international conventions on refugees only obliges signatories not to send them back to which ever country they are fleeing from and then only if they come directly from that country. It does not give a right to swan around the wold looking for the best deal. The recent deaths in fifty metres from Indonesia appear to be of Lebanese who were economic refugees due to depressed conditions in N Lebanon. Australia does not have a border with Lebanon and these people must have come through or past many countries where they would have saved. Look up the signatories to UN conventions on refugees, they include Afghanistan and Somalia. They are not going there.

tonywasAboatchild:

30 Sep 2013 7:52:48pm

whilst I agree the refugees from Lebanon do have umpteen nations to seek for refuge I just wonder if they chose Australia in some poetic way for our support for Israel ( which has de-stabalised Lebanon just as much as Syria and iran etc etc)

ThatFlemingGent:

01 Oct 2013 7:14:48am

We're also signatories to the UN Refugee Convention (1951, re-signed 1967), with Article 31 stating that a state cannot impose penalties on those entering a country otherwise illegally for the purpose of seeking asylum regardless of method of transport or documentation.

This is something that even the ABC Fact Check fails to take into consideration

reaver:

01 Oct 2013 12:21:30pm

As you're aware, ThatFlemingGent, (you have been informed enough to know) Article 31(1) deals with immunity from prosecution. Australia doesn't prosecute unlawful non-citizens so it doesn't apply to our situation. Neither method of transport nor documentation are mentioned in Article 31.If you genuinely knew as much about the Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees as you think that you do then you wouldn't make claims such as that Australia re-signed the Convention in 1967. We signed onto the Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees, which was an amendment to the Convention, in 1967.

Tony:

30 Sep 2013 8:35:03pm

Actually the Labor government, and specifically Bob Carr acknowledged these people are entering Australia illegally.

If a yacht enters an Australian port from overseas without giving 96 hours notice tand going through the correct procedures the skipper will be charged with entering illegally whether it is a foreign or Australian vessel.

Andy:

01 Oct 2013 8:00:34am

i recall the high court found that entering the country without a valid visa is illegal. the people can apply for asylum having arrived without a visa, and that is legal, but their means of arrival is (i believe) illegal.

reaver:

01 Oct 2013 10:21:27am

You're the one who appears to not understand Article 31 of the Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees, ThatFlemingGent. Article 31(1) gives genuine refugees immunity from prosecution should the country that they enter have illegal entry as a prosecutable crime. As with all immunities from prosecution 31(1) doesn't make the illegal action legal it just means that those committing it can't be prosecuted.Article 31(2) allows countries to detain asylum seekers until they have been confirmed to be genuine refugees and their entry to that country regularized by the issuing of a visa or until they are accepted by another country. If their claim for refugee status and asylum is rejected the Convention ceases to apply to them.

ThatFlemingGent:

01 Oct 2013 12:19:48pm

"You're the one who appears to not understand Article 31 of the Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees, ThatFlemingGent.:"

No. I am correct and no matter which way you cut it "andy" is lying and still wrong. You are merely trying to muddy the waters by misrepresenting/misinterpreting what the Articles mean - the issuance of a visa for example is strictly your own invention and "another country" does not necessitate a third nation (other than the origin or the country in which asylum is sought).

"The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of article 1, enter or are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence. (Article 31, (1))"

"The Contracting States shall not apply to the movements of such refugees restrictions other than those which are necessary and such restrictions shall only be applied until their status in the country is regularized or they obtain admission in to another country. The ContractingStates shall allow such refugees a reasonable period and all the necessary facilities to obtain admission into another country Article 31, (2))"

reaver:

01 Oct 2013 1:50:35pm

ThatFlemingGent, the original articles of negotiation still exist. There is record of what the writers of the Convention meant. My "misrepresenting/misinterpreting what the Articles mean" is what they were written to mean. The issuing of the relevant documentation, in Australia's case a valid visa, is what "their status in the country is regularized" means. "obtain admission into another country" means and has always meant a country other than the one which the refugee is physically in. 31(2) specifically states "until their status in the country is regularized OR they obtain admission into another country." This unambiguously states that the country that the refugee is in is NOT "another country".

semprini:

Apart from the political angle, boat accidents happen. A boat accident this bad, or much worse, happens in the Phillipines a couple of times a year.

But meanwhile, not a snivelling peep from you, about what an unspeakable tragedy it is, when four times that many people are deliberately murdered in Pakistan last week. Or when twice as many people are deliberately murdered in Nigeria yesterday. Or three times as many people were intentionally murdered in Iraq three days ago ? No, according to you, those events, unlike this foolish accident, would not be "unspeakable tragedies", they would just be a misunderstanding.

BG:

Roger:

30 Sep 2013 7:57:16pm

Too right - and the XBC 7pm news tonight spent over 10 minutes proclaiming that the government's policies can not possibly work, followed by the same on the 7.30 Report. We don't have an objective national broadcaster but an unofficial political party, paid for by our taxes but with no recourse to the electorate. Have we yet had from "our" ABC a single Drum article arguing the case FOR stopping the boats? So much for the ABC's charter of balance and objectivity. By the way, did Paul Karp write that the 2000 odd deaths under the ALP was an "unspeakable tragedy"? No, of course not. His hypocrisy and political bias is palpable. And, in case anyone forgot, the present government was only sworn in 12 days ago!

John51:

30 Sep 2013 9:17:23pm

Oh dear if anyone makes a criticism of Abbott on the ABC Drum than it is big bad biased Aunty ABC. What a lot of crock. It seems some people are sensitive to a little criticism of their favourite hero.

The difference is that it is the Asylum seeker issuer that Abbott make such a big fuss over. Remember before the election it was a national emergency according top your great hero Abbott and Morrison. A national emergency. The nation was being swamped by boat people. Abbott was going to turn the boats back yet we have had 4 boats in the last week.

This issue was such a national emergency that when he did go to Indonesia he did not even bother to take Morrison with him. What didn't he trust him to go over their and tell them how he was going to turn the boats back. I am waiting to see if Abbott even opens his mouth and brings this up when he over there talking to their President.

No body can criticise Abbott over this and yet he had no problem with criticising labor every day making out how this was such an emergency. We better hope Abbott has more than three word one liner's to argue his point over there otherwise he will look like a real fool. And the problem is that we will as well.

OntheRun:

01 Oct 2013 7:15:51am

I see that Kevin Rudd started the rise in boat arrivals. All on the back of comments claiming mandatory detention was inhumane. For some reason, its only when the Liberals took over once more that deaths where inhumane.

Drunken Sailor:

30 Sep 2013 10:47:44pm

I entirely agree - and the fact that the victims of the latest "unspeakable tragedy" were driven to their boat by the Indonesian army, were in Indonesia's search and rescue zone, and that just about any AFL player could have kicked a ball from the beach over the boat where it sank seems to make all the shrill carping about Australia's failure in this just a little hollow.

Alexandra:

01 Oct 2013 5:42:03am

And the people affected by these tragedies are coming to Australia by boat. Abbott and Co have been providing a response to these events for the last three years by repeating the mantra of Stop the Boats cumulating in scoreboard billboards plastered around the country and overloading our letterboxes with pamphlets depicting graphs of the number of arrivals.

maggie:

30 Sep 2013 6:57:35pm

yes its a pity the LNP didn't do that instead of destroying everything that was being achieved, it wont go away, as soon as the 13th comes round abbott will need to be on his toes as the alp sink in the fangs as he did when in opposition, I don't think he will last to long then when he has to stand up and answer questions. ummmm errr ahhhh

dean:

Zoltar:

01 Oct 2013 7:05:46am

Dean, I'm quite happy to keep the asylum seeker debate going, as it's a proxy argument for the immigration and population debates that never happen.

For those of us who reject the big Australia vision, the boats must be stopped. Because such uncontrolled migration is anathema to the prosecution of effective immigration policy in a restricted setting.

ideologueLie:

30 Sep 2013 3:06:47pm

Where does "your" "unbias" ABC get all these loony leftwinged anti- conservative haters.

Fair go, the Liberals have been in power for five minutes and already these ABC encourage spruikers are anouncing:"The Abbott Government starts with the ignominious record of being both a do-nothing and say-nothing government."

dman:

30 Sep 2013 6:42:03pm

It's the drum, for opinion pieces, what do you expect. It doesn't make the ABC biased. Every time a story is posted on the dr that is not in favor of the LNP hysterical people cry bias. You're forgetting that heaps of alternate views invluding this in favoit of the lnp are posted all the time

Abbott said he'd stop the boats, but there's a steady streamof them arriving still, 3 this week. The point is Abbotts policy was all talk directed at xenophobic undertones and actually isn't working.

Sammy:

30 Sep 2013 7:33:19pm

Give the government a break - they have been in government for what.. 8 days and you jump on them. Labor made this hell of a mess and now the coalition have to pick up the pieces and fix it - and fix it properly they will.

maggie:

01 Oct 2013 6:40:59am

isn't this what you did to Gillard and then to rudd, so what are you whinging about, don't you like getting it back, come on fair go, its the Rudd PNG plan that is having the best affect on the boats and you deny it, just because it was an alp innititive, but now that abbots in you think it was all his idea, remember he rubbished it, He said it wouldn't work, but scott morrisson is mouthing the same words as did Rudd. you will not be settled in Australia, you want us to go away, but you didn't, did you. abbott is a moron, so is his team, already proving that. remember how he jumped up and down about boat people, remember how he was quick to make it a big thing in the media,how people were drowning at sea, at least the ALP didn't leave them to drown as the LNP did by refusing to help, remember how he was going to stop the boats, then he was going to buy the boats now he just like you want them to just hide away, it is amusing isn't it, as he has stated if a government cant stop the boats they should not be in government, abbotts words, so it looks like he will step down at the next election and it will be the last we see of him and his daughters.

Forrest Gardener:

Monty B:

30 Sep 2013 8:46:51pm

Abbott did not promise to -do-nothing and say-nothing-. He promised to stop the boats. Remember? He repeated the slogan every day like a parrot with Tourettes. He said only he could stop the boats that he would do so from day one.

OntheRun:

01 Oct 2013 7:19:08am

And actions have started from day one. The trend of arrivals may show a change in six months time. When Kevin Rudd declared open border, it didn't take one day to get the present number of arrivals. It will take even more time to clean his mess up.

dman:

30 Sep 2013 9:36:58pm

Everything they touched turned into a disaster? Really? Everything?. Hmmmm exaggerating much there Forester Gardner? I think what you mean is: who cares what the LNP do, I don't care if they're good or bad, I just don't want labor in because Jonesy and Rupert tell me they're bad

Polly Wolly Doodle:

Andie:

30 Sep 2013 7:28:04pm

After watching the ABC news tonight and their reports strongly pushing stories about how they reckon Tamils from Sri Lanka and asylum seekers in Indonesia will continue to pay to get on boats suggests that the ABC are worried the Abbott will succeed and prevent further deaths at sea of these people.

Tony:

Craig Thomas:

01 Oct 2013 11:33:16am

They've spent the last few years asserting that the problem is "insoluble", that boats couldn't be turned back, that TPVs don't work, etc....

The amusing thing is that the Howard government's success at reducing the economic migrant asylum-shoppers down to about 100 per year by introducing TPVs and towing boats back proves that the "insoluble" problem was indeed solved, prior to the ALP trashing the solution and creating the problem again.

Andy:

01 Oct 2013 8:39:55am

if the ABC were indeed a commercial entity we could legitimately ignore it, as we weren't contributing to it. The ABC is funded by everyone's taxes, even those of bogans. It would be great if the ABC gave equal scrutiny to both sides of politics rather than ignoring the boat issue until the coalition got in power.

Many (including those who are educated and who aren't bogans) see the ABC as the mouthpiece of the labor party, not the mouthpiece of all australians. It shouldn't be seen as a political organ of either side, and it is to its shame that it doesn't perceive this as a problem.

christophus:

You'll come begging:

01 Oct 2013 12:38:40am

Within six months, all of you LNP supporters will be on your knees begging for an election when bozo and his circus troupe reveal their total lack of unworthiness to govern. It's been three weeks - how many boats stopped? How many scandals all ready?

Patrick53:

30 Sep 2013 3:07:32pm

You are right on the money Paul. What we are witnessing now is the World According To Howard Part Two. Being both a hero and mentor to Abbott , Howard , that mean little man who lost his own seat still carries an awful lot of clout in the Liberal Party .

Abbott carries Howards's manifesto for neo-con supremacy in his back pocket wherever he goes so just observe the changes this new government makes and know that Howard may have been humiliated and booted out but now he is back with a vengeance. It wont be long at all before the trade unions and the working people of this nation are under attack.

One more term of government was all that Howard needed to totally dismantle the trade unions and make it open-slather for the rich and big business but he went a bridge to far with workchoices and paid the price.

And now he is going to pull the strings on his puppet Mr Abbott..this will get very ugly and this nation of ours will pay the price.

Petyer of Perth:

30 Sep 2013 6:24:42pm

patrick53- Oh God, give it a break mate, get over it and stop the BS. Abbott is doing very well and I fully expect he will end up being a very successful PM and Australia will benefit greatly from his time in office. However, I'm sure that your rusted on mates and your good self will still be screeching, and screeching, and screeching, and-----

the egg:

30 Sep 2013 8:36:49pm

Give it a break mate !! Normally I wouldn't give a toss about the views of right-wing brain-dead idiots like you Petyer of Perth but in this case I will make an exception.I was brought up Tory voting middle-class english but the scales fell from my eyes many years ago when I discovered how greedy, nasty, selfish, one-eyed Tories like you were.Complete waste of time having and expressing an alternative point of view. I do find it amusing however how you find the "rusted-on lefties" so single-minded but see no fault in your own narrow view of the current political scene.My opinion of Abbott is based on ten years or so of political reading and I believe he is dangerous for the majority of people in this country. Read the background to this guy and the rest of the gang and see what they bring to the political table. It ain't a pretty picture !!!

Monty B:

30 Sep 2013 8:52:44pm

-expect he will end up being a very successful PM-

For that to happen he will need to show more commitment to his own slogans. His -stop the boats- crisis has become a minor irritant to glossed over and hushed up. His -stop the waste- crisis can now wait until next year.

Pop:

30 Sep 2013 7:59:27pm

Patrick, is the 53 your age or IQ? Please be half reasonable the give the man a chance, to be fair, we wouldn't even be discussing this policy if Rudd hadn't dismantled the policy. (and then blamed the people of Australia!!!)

dean:

Alpo:

30 Sep 2013 3:07:58pm

"Government attempts to reduce media scrutiny on boat arrivals had already got off to a poor start."... Not only that, the Coalition have trapped themselves inside an asylum seekers straightjacket... they can't escape, they won't be allowed to squeeze out with some stupid trick.... But the asylum seekers issue is not just the only one, it's the beginning of the end of the Abbott Government to be followed by all the other little political graves he has carefully dug for himself... The debt, unemployment, industrial relations, the environment, public services, and the list goes on and on...

sammy:

James Murphy:

30 Sep 2013 7:58:59pm

it's funny that for a devoted Labor worshiper, and one who complained bitterly about the "relentless negativity" coming from the Liberals in opposition, that you're doing exactly the same thing, but, because you're Labor, it's apparently perfectly ok? I suggest googling "double standards", because it's quite clear you don't understand the concept at all.

I pity your inability to approach anything remotely political with even a modicum of objectivity. It merely shows a lack of comprehension, a lack of imagination, a lack of initiative, a lack of intelligence, or maybe a combination of all. Still, all political parties need unthinking, unquestioning drones as a "base-load" vote source, so you're no different to any other political party fanatic in that regard.

Oppositions should certainly oppose, but they should do so in ways which are ultimately constructive. The Liberals rarely, if ever achieved that, and Labor is following the same infantile path, despite claiming that they were going to be "new and improved". Still, I guess after 2 terms of petty infighting and encouraging class warfare/community division, Labor know nothing else...

Alpo:

01 Oct 2013 11:56:14am

"that you're doing exactly the same thing, but, because you're Labor, it's apparently perfectly ok?"... NO, it's just "an eye for an eye"... Abbott will be relentlessly stricken by a popular rage of Biblical proportions (Old Testament style)... there is no escape for him and his gang. I told you guys before the election when I used the metaphor of the "Pandora's Box". The box remained open after the election, and the genies are out and about."Oppositions should certainly oppose, but they should do so in ways which are ultimately constructive."... You should have told that to Abbott. Why did you remain silent?.... Now it's too late, the Pandora's Box can only be sealed again by a Coalition loss at the next election (which may be closer than many think if the battle in the new Senate gets really hot....).

CC:

30 Sep 2013 8:10:32pm

It is going to be along 12 years for you Alpo.Abbott said he would act on Boats arrivals and he and Morrison have moved on the problem immediately.I guess a government that makes a promise and then does it's best to deliver on that is a rarity in your world.BTW... keep that list going, it'll make for a good laugh.

dean:

30 Sep 2013 8:25:54pm

Lets talk about it in 12 months Alpo, because the problem will no longer exist. I know that it will be hard for you to swallow but lets face it, the problem started with Labor and will be fixed by the Liberals. The fact that Rudd/ Gillard will never take responsibility for the 1000 plus deaths is typical.

Alpo:

Gilbert:

30 Sep 2013 3:11:23pm

Stop (taking about) the boats.

I believe that the reason boats stopped arriving under the Howard government was the sinking of the SIEV X, and the loss of life associated, which did more to discourage people from taking the boat journey to Australia than Woomera and Baxter detention centres ever did.

When civilised countries accept a policy to let distressed people die at sea, then we will no longer be a destination.

This is what Howard and Ruddock have taught Abbott and Morrison. This is the real new policy of stopping the boats, it is stop saving people on boats, and when enough have died to rival the suffering they have endured in the country from which they have fled, then Australia won't have a refugee problem.

dman:

Sammy:

30 Sep 2013 7:37:51pm

I think that you will find Indonesia had disputed the Australian navy entering their waters and decried it a breach of their sovereignty only last week. So sorry, you cant have it both ways. Anyway, an Indonesian boat, crewed by Indonesians, full of non australians from half the world away, assisted by the Indonesian army, sets sail from Indonesia, is in Indonesian waters and sinks........ and somehow that makes it Australia's fault???. If these people wanted help, why not call indonesia who were hundreds of miles closer

andy:

30 Sep 2013 8:15:39pm

and no indonesian boats could respond within indonesian waters? you want us to believe the australian navy could steam uninvited deep into indonesian waters when they were too lazy or uninclined to do anything about it themselves?

Never Red:

30 Sep 2013 10:01:47pm

Actually you are correct except they were not in international waters or is Indonesian waters now international waters or are you saying that a boat from Darwin will always get there before a boat from Indonesia and that no other boats where anywhere near them , no fishing boats , no cargo ships, you are really in la la land.

The Royal Australian Navy and customs Taxi service is almost always there to prevent loss of life remember when the illegal boat exploded injuring many people and service personnel, why they did not want the boat to be turned around.

So when your out fishing and run into trouble you are going to call a rescue service miles away because you don't like the land your heading for or maybe the Darwin express will come to your rescue in Victoria, from your favourite fishing spot as they were the only boat around at the time ?

We must be the only country that runs a water taxi service from one country to another for people attempting entry illegally. Labor caused this mess and they are responsible for the lives lost at see by picking people up in another countries waters and bringing them to Christmas island etc, the key message from the Indonesian rescue service was they were surprised that the Australian boats did not take then to Christmas island as they used to when rescued by Australian vessels inside of INDONESIAN WATERS. no wonder the criminals give these pour souls the phone number for Australian Rescue service.

P.Sam C.:

Paul, of course we must help others where possible. Australia islooking after some 50.000 new arrivals (asylum seekers/refugees/457 visa holders/485 visa holders) per year.

How many more could we take in before we're all be a neglected people? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, million per year? There are even more than that figure waiting to come here.

Be mindful that there are 1.2 million Australians unemployed, with a pool of 55.000 jobs only, and that there are over 100.000 Australians homeless: sleeping in the open. It has been bitterlycold - soon it will be untenably hot. What to do about our lot?

DAMO:

30 Sep 2013 10:27:52pm

Spot on P.Sam CThe bleeding hearts out there have more compassion and understanding in their little fingers for the country shopping refugee than they have in their whole bodies for our own poor and destitute.The inner city latte sipping yuppies will find their latest trendy cause will go the way of the dinosaur and deservedly so.I hope Abbott finally succeeds in stopping the boats once and for all .It's time we look after our own FIRST !!

Bev:

01 Oct 2013 8:28:15am

The left wants to open the flood gates to refugees with the strain it causes on our infrastructure and that's OK because we have to be compassionate. At the same time they preach the message that we must get rid of our cars, close down power generators and go back to living in caves because of global warming. We are told that Australia will be hotter and drier and unable to support our present population according to global warming reports. Does anybody see any contradiction's here?

stuffitinyourpocketandrun:

You've just put a price on humanity and compassion...The right = people who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

When the ALP wanted to borrow such that we might invest in infrastructure for our future your ilk called them spend thrifts..

Why not use the labour provided by asylum seekers to build the infrastructure of the future ..we did something very similar with the building of the Snowy Mountains Hydro Electric infrastrcture...oh yes indeed, I see the contradiction in your argument absolutely!

reaver:

01 Oct 2013 12:40:46pm

Of course we've put a price on humanity and compassion, stuffitinyourpocketandrun, because it has a cost. It's a lot harder to be compassionate if you're broke.You're suggesting using refugees as indentured labour? To use your words "oh yes indeed, I see the contradiction in your argument absolutely" The fact is that unlike previous waves of refugees those who come to Australia as IMAs are among the groups most likely not to have jobs, among the most likely to rely upon welfare for long periods of time and are the least likely to speak English. Recent history has proven that they're NOT willing to work.

Charles:

30 Sep 2013 3:13:30pm

We will stop the boats from Day1 no matter what, when we get into power!Dr No Abbott continually said this over and over when in Opposition!Well he is in power now so where are the resultsHe has had eight days to fix this problem so has he fixed it?Not when you see a number of deaths already, many being childrenWhose fault, who cares, get it fixed!You promised that you had the answer from Day1End of story!

Petyer of Perth:

30 Sep 2013 6:28:22pm

I for one definitely DO NOT remember Abbott saying, 'I will stop the boats from day one'. We know it must be hard to accept that Labor are where they deserve to be but telling porkies and twisting things to suit is certainly not going to get you anywhere.

peter of mitcham:

Mycal:

30 Sep 2013 9:02:47pm

It may have been what he ment Graham but he never qualified it or clarified it until just before the election, after 3 years of screaming about it. My English is just fine BTW but thanks for you interpretation of the great mans thoughts.

He created the situation, feed the hysteria and took a radical and immoral position on it, but now the adult is in charge we should not hold him to account?

Greg:

01 Oct 2013 10:19:23am

and nothing that you have a distorted view on would have occurred if Labor was not brain dead enough to break a system that was working. Yet another example that the Labor/Greens are all froth and bubbles but no substance.

stuffitinyourpocketandrun:

30 Sep 2013 9:03:41pm

We bow to the holier than thou born to rulers such as yourself.... we remain eternally grateful that you've taken the reins of power..we undeserving fools have not yet seen the light...but your ever magnanimous approach shames us into a greater appreciation of all our flaws..you have illuminated a pathway of enlightenment for us....I hope one day to more like you!

do the professor:

Are you serious. Abbott was sworn in less than 2 weeks ago.But you claim he is responsible for drownings 50 metres from Java.

Every fishing boat, ferry, yacht, oil tanker, dinghy or jet ski that comes to grief in Indonesia is obviously now Abbott's fault.

You obviously believe we should be taking substantially more refugees. Just say HOW MANY per year. Then say what you will do when that number is reached. You will probably say just let the rest in anyway.

Fair enough. You want open boarders. That is a legitimate stance. Get out and advocate for it. don't disguise your plan as some sort of humanitarian escapade.

Business will get rich from a big Australia. Fair enough. I'm concerned about the environment not money.

And when you speak of disguising plans...the current ALP and Colaition policy is predicated on the belief that desperate (Largely Islamic) women and children coming to our shores on boats pose a potential terrorist threat to our nation..and that we should not be compassionate, humanitarian or altruistic until they have spent years rotting in filthy refugee camps..

Do The Professor:

Thanks for the response. but you didn't say how many refugees aust should take each year and you did not say what we should do when that number is reached.

The green/alp/abc alliance never answer this simple question which goes to the crux of the issue.

If you want open boarders, just say so and make your case for it. it is a legitimate aspiration. business want it so they can get richer. Fair enough. I don't believe in the 'big Australia' mantra of the ALP/Green/ABC alliance. But I believe you have a right to put your point of view. So make your case.

ummagumma:

01 Oct 2013 1:19:16pm

Nobody I know of is advocating open borders....you are reaching for that response from your ideological adversaries in an attempt to pursue another argument...It doesn't have to be the "Either or" situation you are suggesting....

If every government policy is predicated on principles of altruism, humanity, compassion and respect for human dignity..then maybe we can find a way to take vastly increased numbers of refugees and asylum seekers and benefit enormously as a result...

Think something akin to the Snowy Mountains Hydro Electric Scheme...in terms of wealth and nation building - the potential exists to utilize and skill a labour force that could ad inestimable value to this nations economy...and how thankful and fierce in loyalty would these new Australians be for the opportunity to realize their aspirations in our land of milk and honey!

Abbott is singing the "Food security" song in Jakarta...I wonder if he is looking for an agricultural labour force!

Bev:

01 Oct 2013 8:33:44am

It has often been said that socialists will grind thousands of the "undeserving" (in their eyes) into the dust to support one of the "deserving" (in their eyes). Real compassion socialist style is an oxymoron.

Jack:

Barnesy:

Waterloo,Nobody wants people drowning at sea. The issue for me is the way Abbott has turned this serious international humanitarian problem into a domestic political issue to win votes.

Nobody can deny Abbott has used this issue as a political weapon. It's disgraceful.

War is bipartisan in Australia, Abbott thinks we're at war (hence the use of military) yet he voted against everything Labor wanted to do for 4 years on this issue for the simple reason to create chaos around the government. Hypocrisy. Hypocrisy. Hypocrisy.

You play with matches you get burned, and Abbott will get burned, eventually.

reaver:

30 Sep 2013 3:13:39pm

So, Paul, what evidence can you supply to verify the claim that "Most people saw it as a disgusting ploy to escape accountability"? Although my evidence is only anecdotal the vast majority of the people I've spoken to couldn't care less as long as the job's being done.Those who drowned this week were not the victims of Australia's asylum seeker policy. Our policy clearly conveys the message "Don't get onto the boat". If people ignore that message and get onto the boat then anything that happens to them isn't Australia's fault.

Monty B:

30 Sep 2013 6:26:41pm

--If people ignore that message and get onto the boat then anything that happens to them isn't Australia's fault--

I would have thought if people ignore the message and get onto the boat it proves comprehensively the message is a failure. That is why Abbott has moved from grand slogans -we will stop the boats from day one- to playing the issue down as a minor irritant?, to attempting to cover up the information.

reaver:

antipostmodernism:

30 Sep 2013 3:14:44pm

Absolute rubbish that the government just trying to cover up boats to pretend the problem is solved. Obviously that could never work. Only a Labor supporter could push this line. The government is deadly serious about stopping the deluge of boats as a matter of principle. Believe it or not Lefty's, an open border is an affront to most Australians, including our new leaders. The government is signalling that it is hardening up, militarising operations, and will not be distracted by pesky leftist media and activists from trying to undermine their efforts. It is telling asylum seekers and people smugglers that things are not going to follow the script that always ends in capitulation. The government is trying to intimidate, confuse, and leave an impression of being a little unhinged and unpredictable to brutish types who smell our weakness. They are also muscling up to the Indonesian bullies in fighting for our right to sovereignty right now, so to say they are doing nothing is absurd partizan crap.

Jack:

01 Oct 2013 10:34:20am

So let me see if I get this right, Rudd destroyed our boarder protections, Rudd warns of gillard lurching to the right, Rudd goes further right than everyone as a ploy in his plan to win the election but that?s okay, people like you want Rudd to be given months for his plan to work and no other opinion is allowed, Abbott inherits Labor's disaster, people like you verbal his comments to paint it as a broken promise, you attack Abbott because the problem is not fixed by the third week and because Abbott wants to bring some control into the disaster.

stuffitinyourpocketandrun:

01 Oct 2013 12:08:43pm

Rudd destroyed our border protections? Nonsense...more hyperbole from the frothing right! Sincw hen have we been overrun or invaded by masses of people coming by boat..since when has the number of asylum seekers attempting to enter Australia impacted our quality of life??..what total nonsense!

Rudd went no further to the right than the Howard...indeed Howard was so far to the right of Rudd he was out of sight!

The situation is not and has never been a disaster..more partisan hyperbole from people clearly still in election mode.

Wake up pal..there are literally 10's of millions of refugees globally and only a tiny fraction of that number are seeking asylum in Australia...as with most of the nonsensical commentary from the right on this issue....there's a stench of xenophobia that can't be ignored!

damon:

30 Sep 2013 3:21:18pm

Dear Paul, confected outrage about the news cycle is amusing, even if this is the third left wing article on this topic published on the Drum in the past couple of days.

No rational analysis promotes or accepts unfettered or unregulated immigration, and no country has such a policy. You should explain why you believe it is appropriate for Australia, and how such a policy would be managed in a way that would not cause unacceptable social disruption.

peter of mitcham:

30 Sep 2013 8:21:06pm

It's an opinion, Damon. Someone is voicing their opinion, just like we are now. Why is it so hard to understand? When newspapers confuse reporting facts with opinion of confected outrage, then there's trouble. But this is a venue where people can discuss something, yeah?

Hung One On:

Coogera:

30 Sep 2013 8:45:47pm

Hung One ON:

Its pointless thinking about hypotheticals. Indonesian army personnel were involved with the organisation of a people trafficker boat. The boat was in trouble near Indonesian territory and sank 50m from Indonesian land. Everything makes it an Indonesian not an Australian problem.

Frank of NQ:

01 Oct 2013 9:26:20am

Hung, I am trying to imagine. My empathetic skills don't seem to be working like yours. I see the Bondi lifesavers slam dunking that one and the likes of you and your mates asking Indonesia to intervene.

reaver:

30 Sep 2013 6:33:11pm

You mean that Abbott's delegated responsibility to the relevant parties, ru4real? The horror, the horror! As was proven by the formed Labor government, particularly under Rudd, having the PM trying to cover everything simply doesn't work.Why would he recall Parliament? What legislation are you suggesting would be put through in this recall sitting? Are you suggesting that Parliament should be recalled just for some kind of lip service sitting?

Petyer of Perth:

30 Sep 2013 6:36:33pm

ru4real- Get over it mate, Mr Abbott has said from day one that this government will not be running a daily or hourly commentary for the media and will be making a weekly announcement of boat arrivals and conducting a media conference. That's not secrecy, it's not covering up and it's not going back on any promises, it's simply a new government, determined to stop the shameful illegal immigration industry set up by Rudd and Gillard and the billions of your and my taxes it is costing and it's way past the time it was stopped. It appears to me that every bit of information that could possibly be in the public arena already is so what's the problem anyway? Oh that's right, the main game is to just slag off the government as much as you can but all it does is make those doing the slagging look childish and bad losers.

Coogera:

30 Sep 2013 8:55:08pm

ru4real:

A good PM spends his/her time governing the country not wasting time talking to the media so people like you can have some entertainment. As far as the incident is concerned, it has nothing to do with Australia, so why would we need to hinder governance to discuss an incident that occurred in Indonesia. I suggest you submit your inquiries to the Indonesian Embassy. Alternatively you could address your inquiries to the local TNI (ie army) command and ask why are they involved in people trafficking and why did they overload the boat and not supply life jackets. You could also address your inquiries to the survivors asking them why they did not get the Indonesians to respond to their distress and why did they put women and children on board without life jackets knowing they could not swim.

Zoltar:

01 Oct 2013 5:26:18am

On the offchance that you missed media exchanges before the election along the lines of "Have you cleared this policy change with the leader of the opposition?", responded with "I have no need to", Scott Morrison has had autonomy and responsibility over asylum seeker policy for quite some time. It's Morrisson's baby.

TC:

30 Sep 2013 3:25:28pm

Typical leftie reasoning. The ALP started the boats coming, couldn't stop them coming for six years and now the Coalition is supposed to have stopped all boats coming in the two weeks since being sworn in. Too, too funny. And this guys idea to stop the boats sinking is to let all these people just come here. These people were Lebanese, what claim to refugee status do they have? The boats sunk 50 metres offshore from Indonesia and the hill i on teh beach of Indonesia but somehow Australia's vessels have to rescue them, despite being it being Indononesian territorial waters. the Left of this country has gone stark raving mad but thankfully the sensible, practical centre of Australia is no longer going to kow tow to complete and utter fruit loops.

dman:

30 Sep 2013 6:53:16pm

"the alp started boats coming". What the??? Boats have continued to come under labor and liberal and even well before that.

"these people were Lebanese, what claim to refugee status do they have?" ummm well maybe if you'd let them submit their application for asylum you'd know. They need to apply for asylum, so if you're right and their not genuine refugees they'd be sent back anyway. Or do uou think its appropriate to refuse refugees simply based on nationality. Thats a little bit racist wouldnt you think.

Tony:

ThatFlemingGent:

01 Oct 2013 7:33:54am

He didn't stop them coming. They followed worldwide trends in asylum seeker numbers, plus he tried to cook the books to ensure that as few possible arrivals arrived on "Australian" territory (by carving out what is considered the migration zone to minimise the territory)

The ability of the know-nothings to blatantly rewrite history and deny what happened is borderline mental illness.

reaver:

01 Oct 2013 2:06:16pm

Let's look at the facts, ThatFlemingGent.Howard didn't stop the boats. What he did do was massively cut down their numbers. In 1999 there were 86 boats, in 2000 there were 51 and in 2001 there were 43. The Pacific Solution was brought in in late 2001 and in 2002 there was only 1 boat, just as there was in 2003 and 2004. In the entire seven year run of the Pacific Solution there were only 29 boats. Rudd removed the Pacific Solution in late 2008 and in Labor's best year after that there were 60 boats (in 2009) more than twice the total number of boats that came during the entire Pacific Solution.The claim that the Pacific Solution didn't have any downward effect on IMAs can easily be disproven simply by reading the annual reports put out by the UNHCR entitled "Asylum levels and trends in industrialised countries". These report prove that while the Pacific Solution was in place and only while it was in place when asylum levels rose around the rest of the industrialised world they rose less in Australia and when the fell around the rest of the industrialised world they fell further in Australia. This trend reversed after Rudd eliminated the Pacific Solution with the levels rising more in Australia than around the rest of the industrialised world and falling less than around the rest of the industrialised world.

Graf Cackle:

30 Sep 2013 10:23:42pm

Our 'friend' Saudi Arabia fomenting sectarian warfare in Syria ( threatening to restart the Lebanese civil war) is something that springs to mind as a possible cause to flee.

If we and our allies were not so addicted to warlike meddling in other countries(like Iraq and Afghanistan), perhaps the number of refugees would be reduced. We have somef respomsibility for the issue at its source.

Perhaps when the cyclone season starts Abbott will finally reappear to declare victory

Frank of NQ:

Barry:

01 Oct 2013 10:47:01am

"You can spin it any way you want, but it?s still a fact." That is the fact you use is your spin of a comments taken out of context that in reality bears no relationship to what was said when taken in its entirety. The real fact is that he said he will "make a difference from day one" and by changing the rule he has met that promise. As to your pathetic born to rule statement, I suggest you and Labor look in the mirror given the depth of lies you will use to achieve the power you feel is naturally yours. To quote your ALP brethren, "Power at any cost".".

hugo:

30 Sep 2013 3:29:22pm

'The sooner the Government focuses on real solutions ' Real solutions?, how easy it is to say 'real solutions' but some one has to pay. Is there anybody out there willing to state them and then pay for it? We tell these economic and/or refugees 'go to Indonesia, stand in line, and you will go to Australia'. But we don't tell them that there are 40 million of them, around the world, infront of them. they wait and wait in Indonesia with no outcome, so they get on the boats, I do not blame them in any way.For a long time I believed that it is our duty to take in refugees, but now I ony see a flood of refugees, and all the posible help we can give is a drop in a ocean. We only have one solution, and that is to say no, to all, we are human beings with human nature controling us, if one see's another going to Australia, then ferried to Christmas Island, then to Australia, housed, fed, dental and hospital, all for free, they too will believe they have this right, and get on a boat.

do the professor:

30 Sep 2013 7:14:54pm

Hugo I think 40 million is a wild underestimation. its more like 1.5 Billion. think about it.

Whats the population of the Middle East;Sub-Saharan Africa,SE AsiaSouth America90% of these people would all qualify under our generous system. Anyone rejected just takes us to the high court at taxpayers expence and gets citizenship due to foolish very rich judges.

And it goes on and on and on.

Anyone from China who just claims to be Falon Gong gets automatic entry. No proof required. There's another billion.

Rub their noses in it:

01 Oct 2013 2:25:09am

hugo,

The other interesting fact I find, is how many of these boat arrivals in Australia are counted in the 40 million plus displaced people and 15 million plus refugees quoted by the UNHCR prior to their arrival in Australia.

A very small proportion is the answer. Because very few of the 40 million plus displaced people and 15 million plus refugees can afford the $10,000 the people smugglers charge.

The global pool of people from which boat arrivals to Australia can come from is much larger than 40 million and I would suggest numbers in the hundreds of millions. And most of these I would suggest are in no more danger than a person on the streets in any of a number of American cities. But we don't accept these people on the streets of these American cities in our refugee program. Do we.

countrygirl:

30 Sep 2013 3:30:00pm

I agree with Paul Karp and urge the Labor party and those members of the government parties who have concerns about the present policies to be willing to work together and in consultation with independent experts towards a bipartisan or "tripartisan"humane and generous immigration regime for asylum seekers. This needs to be done in cooperation with our regional neighbours and international organisations working with refugees.

Jilleene:

Petyer of Perth:

30 Sep 2013 6:41:16pm

Australia already has a humane and generous immigration system in place and it's open to any GENUINE refugees who play by the rules and apply via the UN system which is the system Australia works under. Queue jumping illegal economic immigrants should be flown straight out to a UN camp near where they started from and start the process rather than pay their way to Australia's back door and in doing so push genuine refugees further and further back in the queue. If this was done just a few times watch the boats stop.

Tony:

awake:

30 Sep 2013 3:32:29pm

World wide the asylum seeker problem amounts to 10,500,241 human souls, according the the UN.

Australia's place is 49th in world ranking for accepting asylum seekers we have around 12,500 in detention. Who takes the most - top is Pakistan, followed by Ethiopia and then Germany. 23,000 people leave their home daily across the world (again UN stats).

Abbott and Morrison spread such fear among the Australian population with Stop the Boats, battle ready, immigration scares that is has come back to bite hard with our 24 hour news cycle.

reaver:

30 Sep 2013 6:53:01pm

The countries with the greatest number of refugees are those that share a land border with the source countries, awake, and none of them offers anything like what we do here in Australia. No-one travels halfway around the world bypassing country after country in order to get to Pakistan or Ethiopia. Comparing Pakistan to Australia is comparing apples and wheel nuts.Germany is not only not the third highest receiver of asylum claims in the world, it's not even the highest in the industrialised world. Every year the UNHCR puts out a report entitled "Asylum levels and trends in industrialised countries". The 2012 report showed that Germany was second highest in the industrialised world receiving 64,540 claims in 2012 compared to the US's 83,430 claims in 2012. When you look back at asylum claim numbers over a five year timescale Germany falls to third place in the industrialised world behind the USA and France.

The Reg:

Rub their noses in it:

01 Oct 2013 2:09:54am

awake,

The UNHCR doesn't rank countries according to these statistics. You cannot compare countries that put refugees and any children they might have while they are refugees in refugee camps decade after decade and count them as refugees with countries that take in refugees and rapidly move them on to citizenship thereby removing them from their refugee total. You cannot compare or measure the humanitarian value of a countries immigration program by counting refugees when many of the people in the humanitarian immigration program are not counted as refugees but are in most cases are more needy than most of those that are counted as refugees. You cannot compare countries which rely on other countries to pay for their refugee programs with high cost countries which finance their own refugee programs. You are not comparing like with like.

It is only the refugee advocates that grubby their hands with producing this garbage that passes as refugee league tables. Anybody who quotes them is either an idiot or a liar.

Zoltar:

01 Oct 2013 5:42:44am

The UNHCR uses a different methodology for assessing asylum seeker/refugee numbers in OECD countries, compared to others. The numbers that these methodologies produce are incompatible for ranking purposes. Many of the UNHCR reports state this, but if one bothers to read the footnotes it should be obvious. Any UNHCR ranking that places Australia 49th is meaningless crap.

The nose:

Johnno:

30 Sep 2013 3:46:20pm

The author certainly has a point:If there is a media void on the boat issue, someone will fill it.Yep, that's a fact.

The situation at election time seemed to be:The Australian Government was heard to be serious about stopping the boats and was seen to be making arrangements for more asylumcentres in Australia. Trying to soothe opposing electorate attitudes while being horrified at increased boat arrivals and occasional loss of life.The media was happy, the opposition was happy and Indonesia was happy. The opposition filled the void.

The electorate, not the media, took action on the matter and demanded the boats be stopped.

The voters who gave the Abbott Govt the go-ahead to stop the boats are well aware of the cosy arrangements between The Gillard/RuddLabor Govts and the Indonesian Govt that allowed and probably encouraged an increasing number of boats carrying asylum seekers to set sail for Australia in accident prone craft.Indonesia was always going to be upset with a determined effort by Australia to stop the boats.

What is mystifying is that Indonesia is not being blamed for letting unseaworthy craft leave their shores in the first place.Further, that Indonesia has treated the Australian representative, Julie Bishop like a "silly woman" in her talks with her Indonesian counterpart.Further, that sections of the Australian media, such as a current article on "The Drum" are happy to endorse the Indonesian attitude and extend an invitation to Indonesia to treat our Prime Minister in the same manner.

There has been a change in direction of policy by the elected Australian Government and I suggest that a large part of the Australian electorate want to see positive results notwithstanding Indonesian and Australian opposition sensibilities or a media void for that matter.

Frargo:

30 Sep 2013 3:50:17pm

Our faceless PM fronted after several days of silence and told us that about 200 boat people had sought refuge in Australia since he took office. If we have to wait this long for a guesstimate he may as well not bother. His strong arm tactics aren't working with the Indonesians nor the people calling out for help on the boats. Perhaps we need an opinion poll or a call from Alan Jones to tell us how great he is at border protection. Number one priority for non refugees.

Peter of Perth:

30 Sep 2013 3:52:37pm

Paul, you seem to have a hell of a lot of confidence in what the illegal immigrants are saying while running down the government. Of course the illegals will say anything to support their story. Why not support your government in it's efforts to stop the utter shambles that Labor created and left for the Liberals to solve? One other thing that we should be asking is that why, after Rudd said repeatedly that no one, not even one of the illegal boat arrivals would ever be settled in Australia and this has been supported by the Liberal government, have we been told by the illegals that they were on their way to Australia and their families in Melbourne and Sydney have told the media that they have been waiting for their friends and relatives to arrive in Australia? The fact is that Rudd and Gillard created the problem this country now faces withy illegal boat arrivals and the billions of taxpayer dollars it is costing and it must stop and I fully support the Abbott government in it's endeavours to do so. No one forces these people onto the boats and they have to take responsibility for their own actions and the outcome of those actions. Also, what does it tell us when the Lebanese government itself has confirmed the number of people who were on the boat? I thought that countries were supposed to work together to assist each other to solve problems but as we see every day, this is clearly a one way street.

Hoodwinked:

30 Sep 2013 3:56:10pm

Well before the election our borders were under attack by the asylum seekers and the Labour government had lost control of our borders was the cry. After the election the emergency must have receded enormously if the commander of Operation Sovereign Borders, Lieutenant General Angus Campbell, is able to be granted leave. As far as I am concerned Abbott and Morrison are hypocrites and Liars, and have performed the biggest con on the Australian people regarding this issue and others as we shall find out in due course.

honesty:

30 Sep 2013 3:57:13pm

If the coalition had the courage of their convictions they would withdraw Australia's ratification of the 1951 Refugee Convention. They won't because they are moral cowards who want the international plaudits.

So instead we give lipservice to the convention while putting up barriers which endanger lives. Of course, the whole 'stop the boats' slogan hides the ugly truth: there are votes in xenophobia.

Oh, and beware the much repeated lie that Howard stopped the boats. He didn't.

reaver:

30 Sep 2013 7:06:06pm

Howard didn't stop the boats, honesty, he just massively cut down their numbers. In 1999 there were 86 boats, in 2000 there were 51 and in 2001 there were 43. The Pacific Solution was brought in in late 2001 and in 2002 there was only 1 boat, just as there was in 2003 and 2004. In the entire seven year run of the Pacific Solution there were only 29 boats. Rudd removed the Pacific Solution in late 2008 and in Labor's best year after that there were 60 boats (in 2009) more than twice the total number of boats that came during the entire Pacific Solution.

Rusty:

30 Sep 2013 3:57:14pm

Scott Morrison, Immigration Minister,just finished a rational, well considered press conference. The first of many, weekly press conferences where full transparency and detail is being provided to the Australian public.

Unlike the incompetent Rudd/Gillard/Rudd ALP government that was irrational and panicky in its press releases/conferences that occurred on an almost hourly basis - and were just noise.

Brewster:

30 Sep 2013 3:59:32pm

As sad and tragic as they were, why are the deaths of 20 boat people who took well known risks getting so much more media attention than the thousands of poison gas victims or the cowardly murder of sleeping students in Nigeria or the victims of famine and disease etc et c? Good headlines for the media and lazy journalists perhaps who can drum up easy stories.

Tony:

30 Sep 2013 4:00:03pm

What fact free rubbish!

1." it shifted from a policy of total blackout on the issue " When was there a blackout? Blatant falsehood.

2. "reject cruel policies which are evidently still incapable of deterring the perilous journeys." The Coalition's policies haven't been implemented yet. So how can you claim "still incapable"? As for 'cruel', yeah a really unbiased analysis this one.

3. "Most people saw it as a disgusting ploy to escape accountability" Well not exactly. Maybe 'most' you hang out with but then they are a select few. How exactly was 'most' determined?

5. "to determine what we know about who comes to this country, and therefore the circumstances in which we can talk about it." No one has sought to limit what you know. The government simply refuses to spend its time chatting to you on your terms. Frankly, given the quality of this article there reluctance is well founded.

Is this partisan smear and innuendo of all and sundry truly the best the ABC can do? Have quality journalists banned their articles from appearing on the Drum?

Tropical:

30 Sep 2013 4:04:32pm

Give it a rest. The ABC and its cheerleaders were stunningly silent when nearly four thousand drowned at sea.And now you are screaming blue bloody murder because you have been slowed down in the media cycle.Just another damned hypocrite in a long conga line of media suck holes.

Reinhard:

KG:

30 Sep 2013 4:06:17pm

The most puzzling aspect of the government's behaviour is the strange belief that ad hoc decision-making that is little short of irrational can do anything other than make the government look either inept or malicious.Perhaps this government made the mistake of believing its own election hype, without thinking beyond the claims.Not good enough.

Tony:

30 Sep 2013 9:07:25pm

Have you ever been in a position where your decisions counted for anything? Or is your claim of 'adhoc decision making' based on total ignorance?

Abbott hasn't got some of Australia's most successful military people involved because he makes adhoc decisions. They obviously respect him and his mode of operation and he has provided them with the operational environment they requested.

Hard to swallow I know but even the former President of the Labor Party has jumped on board with Abbott and quit the Labor Party because he respects Abbott and his style.

Now Labor has one former President facing criminal charges and another changing sides to help the LNP. Maybe 'adhoc decision making' is inaccurate?

ken:

30 Sep 2013 4:07:25pm

I still think Rudd's initative (to guarantee that no boat person would be allowed to settle in Australia) was part of a solution. The next step would have been to do a deal with Indonesia whereby we would, each year, take a number of refugees off Indonesia's hands, the number being, say, the average annual number of boat people over the last three years. This number would be reduced by ten for every boat person who made it to Xmas Island or to an Australian rescue-ship. The deal with Indonesia would include their undertaking to take vigorous steps to 'stop the boats'. Obviously they would have a strong incentive to do so anyway.

One news report said that Indonesian troops and vehicles were used to move the refugees to the boat. The way that Indonesia is riddled with corruption would make it likely that the Army, which is up to its ears in commerce, would be deeply involved in people-smuggling which must be a very lucrative business.

Incidentally, a few weeks back Canberra Times readers were confronted with a large ad: 'STOP THE GOATS'. It was for a land development. The goat reference was to an upgrade of the access road, described as previously a goat track.

Zoltar:

01 Oct 2013 6:00:21am

Rudd's plan was moronic. Hundreds of thousands, and perhaps millions of refugees would give their right arm to be permanently resettled somewhere, even PNG. People would still come by boat, and people would still drown. This was an election fix, and little more.

EVAN:

"The deaths of 24 asylum seekers at sea are an unspeakable tragedy which should cause Australians to reject cruel policies which are evidently still incapable of deterring the perilous journeys."

Ah the bleeding heart stories are coming thick and fast today.The only people that are to blame are the people who aided and abetted those people to get on a dangeriously unseaworthy boat in the first place.

the plainsman:

30 Sep 2013 4:15:45pm

Because of the amount of black money involved this won't be stopped easily. Very shrewd use of technicalities in the outdated 1951 UNHCR is occurring and we are victims. We cannot even ask and take into account vhow "asylum seekers" get here. That is a disgrace and the UN just sits blithely by and lets signatory states , and misguided people smuggling passengers be used. Australia needs a Royal Commission with very broad Terms of Reference to investigate this problem and look into any Australian connection. It is not just "illegal" human cargo coming in guns and drugs are, so with the huge amount of money involved there must be Australian connections that should be stamped out.

Tony:

Bodin:

30 Sep 2013 4:16:31pm

The 24 hour cycle will fill the vacuum with views and speculation. If the government does not feed it with data the the 24 hour cycle risks becoming a limited and very repetitive medium which will lose followers simply because it is a rehash upon rehash.It may be that the appetite for the non stop breathless rehash of the lasts vague comment will do what all oversupply does , devalue the underlying commodity.If it becomes the case (and I am not sure it can) that for all but rapidly developing stories the social media based vox populi part of the cycle loses punch because it is filling the gaps between events with pointless drivel then the strategy of restricting the flow will work.There seems to be little loss of quantum of talk about this issue. There is much less material and substance and much more speculation and inference.To some extent the value of the 24 hour cycle is its ability to react, but as we have seen the feeding of it with repetition of content by varied players simply fatigues the general populace and provides fodder for those who earn a living dissecting the nuances of a politicians announcement or comment, most of which was not written by them, read by them or understood by them at the time of its work shopping by "communication" experts whose driving momentum is to provide something for the next update. As for deaths at sea they will not be resolved by 24 hour or minute by minute breathless statements, nor by an open door policy(that would surely encourage even more to risk it). As long as the countries of origin persecute and those that can be mobile see the first world as a much better place to live and refugee status offering a faster track than normal immigration then this trade will continue, if not to here then across the Mediterranean and into Europe.We cannot support mass immigration either in social or economic terms without accepting the social and economic costs of doing so. The quandary facing the Abbott Government is better stated as a choice between the say much do nought government, do nothing and accept whatever reaction the electorate has, or do what it can and say little allowing the sagacious commentators to feast on self justified, nebulous and speculative fill in the (less and less accurately named ) 24 hour news cycle.

deliah:

Lawrence of Bavaria :

30 Sep 2013 4:16:47pm

Let's call a spade a spade. Except for the Greens, no side of politics in Australia ever formulated any boat arrival policy to prevent asylum seekers from drowning. That is just propaganda disguised as compassion. It has this hint of humanity and genuine concern. This fake worry, to prevent asylum seekers from attempting "the perilous journey" was always and still is nothing more than a cynical ploy to justify harsher and more inhuman measures against asylum seekers. It feels that nobody in Canberra could care less about drowning boat people. Because every death at sea is a deterrent in itself. The most tragic, but also the most effective. When more people are not arriving in Australia less people will be leaving Indonesia. Asylum seekers had, sadly, drowned before but only after the gutwrenching pictures of asylum seekers drowning off Christmas Island some spinmeisters all of a sudden turned our politicians into the guardians of reckless asylum seekers who had to be stopped from undertaking a lifethreatening journey for their own good. It was never for their own but for the politicians good. It was designed to make us warm and fuzzy that they stood up for protecting the sanctity of human lives. (Only to slowly destroy the lives of those who survived in hopeless detention). This is not only patronising, condescending and disingenous but also deeply offensive. No-one gloats about lives lost, but in all of this to pretend to have the asylum seekers "best interests" at heart is absolute drivel. Our politicians never have and they never will. But they shouldn't masquerade harsher and harsher measures against asylum seekers as a concerned response. We deserve better.

ThatFlemingGent:

01 Oct 2013 7:55:42am

"Let's call a spade a spade. Except for the Greens, no side of politics in Australia ever formulated any boat arrival policy to prevent asylum seekers from drowning. That is just propaganda disguised as compassion. It has this hint of humanity and genuine concern."

The only workable method that even comes close to addressing the problems of asylum seekers taking excessive risks (including drowning at sea) is a regional solution to address the problems at the source. The Houston report addressed this but politicians ignored it.

This won't get up in the current climate as both major parties are trying to court the degenerate, uninformed and frankly xenophobic yobbo vote for short term political gain. The Greens are probably the closest but they're being vilified by both sides of politics and the scum media for not kowtowing to the desires of the lowest common denominator.

Until such time as a genuine leader bites the bullet and ignores the ignorant bogan ranting about "those illegal immigrants" (they aren't) we're stuck with half-baked non-solutions.

Craig Thomas:

01 Oct 2013 11:35:19am

Not sure which planet you are from: The Howard government introduced an effective solution that reduced boat arrivals to 100 per year, stopped the drownings at sea, and allowed Australia's refugee intake to once again be directed at genuine refugees.Nothing "half-baked" about that - it worked.

Jacob:

30 Sep 2013 4:18:12pm

Abbott may be right not to trust his ministers to speak to the media without first being given Credlin's spin messages.

His chief law giver, Brandis, thinks it's OK to hit the public purse for attending his mates' weddings; Pyne (does he ever shut up?: only when Tony tells him to) prematurely reveals their plans on student fees and university caps; the health minister takes the advice to keep a low profile so seriously that no one knows his name.

Hunt has to spend $3.2b on direct action that nobody believes will make the 5% reduction target and his boss does not believe is necessary anyway (if Abbott does not believe in it, why not save us the $3.2b?); Turnbull, full of certainty before the election, is all of a sudden not so sure and needs an inquiry into the NBN; Hockey tells us it's all worse than we know but cannot say how (is that secret too?).

Morrison looks like he suddenly found that there are 50 shades of grey to this asylum seeker business and hopes he can cloak it with invisibility.

Is there anyone in charge of this circus?

And Tony just looks heartless and callous when he won't answer questions about drownings.

Turn back the boats, Tony. Put your fluoro vest on and hop on that patrol boat!

Iswide:

01 Oct 2013 7:27:46am

Tony: "Heartless and callous is allowing people to drown for six long years when you know it is your policies that are encouraging the behaviour!"

Heartless and callous on a much bigger scale is participating in an illegal invasion to such up to the Yanks. Millions of peopled dead, injured and displaced. Those in Australia responsible - Howard and his Cabinet, which included Abbott.

OverIt:

01 Oct 2013 9:49:29am

What are you saying Iswide? You mean that because the actions of a former LNP government resulted in a lot of unnecessary deaths, it's OK for a Labor government to introduce a policy that also lead to unnecessary deaths, because the number of deaths was lower?

Iswide:

Dr. Ghostly:

30 Sep 2013 4:18:35pm

So the Indonesian Military are up their necks in people smuggling and they clearly were involved and taking kickbacks - otherwise why ferry the refugees to a particular boat. Then the refugees leave, watched by the military, then get into strife and their boat breaks up 50 meters from shore while the Indonedian Military look on. People drown and still the Indonesian Miltary do nothing but watch. So the reugees, now a football kick from the shore, call Australia to rescue them. Got to be joking. What would Australia do - send a warship into Indonesian waters at the behest of some refugees. Get real. How coem the Indonesian Military again look as pure as the driven snow for another bunch of heartless murders while they do nothing, absolutely nothing. Who is going to call the Indonesian Military involvement in this and so many other corrupt and cruel losses of life while they take cutbacks in order to make it happen?

punch:

Tony Abbotts extreme rightwing asylum seeker policy is discriminatory, dangerous and, as proven, will cause more deaths at sea. His policy is certainly not about saving lives.

Scott Morrisons hardline actions - stop the boats, push the boats back, turn the boats around, fly sick men, women and children to Manus and Nauru without proper medical attention or health checks, throw them into squalid conditions in malaria and disease ridden developing countries increases the chance of death even more.

Their clumsy attempt to hide the flow of information about boat arrivals highlights this governments incompetence, a policy bound for failure and derision.

Not only is the government attempting to hide the facts - our new so-called leader Tony Abbott dodges the media. An intelligent, confident, transparent leader would not run away.

He/she would stand their ground, confront the press, voice an expression of condolence for the deaths at sea and inform the media when a statement or more detailed information would be made available. That's normal and expected behaviour.

I am ashamed. I know millions of decent, informed Australians feel the same and will act to get rid of this illegitimate government who gained power through total deceit and continue to lie to Australians without blinking. I do not trust trust Tony Abbott or his chosen henchmen/woman.

deliah:

Come On Aussie:

30 Sep 2013 4:20:26pm

A well constructed article. I must express my dismay at the lack of compassion/humanity shown by the Coalition with regards to those seeking asylum, and their contempt for the general public of Australia, and the Indonesian Government is infuriating and embarrassing. Negative, racist comments contributed by some members of the Australian Public has saddened and sickened me. People seek asylum because they are desperate to escape from the conditions and circumstances they find themselves in, usually through no fault of their own. Who could possibly condemn someone for wanting basic human rights and a better quality of life for themselves and their children, or seeking out Australia, land of the 'Fair Go. We're all human, all destined to live and die- 1 life- let's not continue to be so bloody petty and selfish.

Hmmm:

30 Sep 2013 8:37:09pm

So you are saying there are no human rights in Indonesia? Or Malaysia, or India, or Pakistan, or UAE, or Saudi Arabia? So Lebanese pass all these countries because the only country with hope is Australia, gee the coalition government must be truly wonderful!

Pete:

30 Sep 2013 11:19:33pm

Taking your naive views to their conclusion, Australia is obliged to take 10s of millions of people 'wanting basic human rights and a better quality of life'. This is so utterly impractical, I'm surprised the argument get reduced to such a childlike form. This kind of soppy analysis is seen through immediately by the majority of Australians, who just voted in a government to get tough on people smugglers. Wanting to protect the Australia we love, and not become a dumping ground for every failed state's citizens is hardly petty or selfish.

mike:

30 Sep 2013 4:21:02pm

"The Howard government promised to decide "who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come". The results of that mindset are there for all to see this week."

No, the results of that mindset were there for all to see - virtually no boats and zero drownings - right before Rudd dismantled those policies. The results you see this week are the results of the Labor/Green mindset that demonised Howard's successful policies. It will take time to implement the full suite of those policies again but they will stop the drownings.

Zoltar:

01 Oct 2013 8:07:33am

Dave, clearly the result is the endpoint, and not points along the way. There were virtually no boats, no drownings, and no one in detention when Howard left office. What can be said of the situation when Rudd/Gillard left office?

Reinhard:

01 Oct 2013 2:14:24pm

Here is the IPA's own Chris Berg, for once telling it like is"When it became clear the vast majority of those detained on Nauru were eventually resettled in either Australia or New Zealand, the bluff was over. Potential refugees understood a stint in detention was the price of asylum. Boat arrivals started picking up from 2006 onwards" http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-23/berg-on-the-positive-side-thousands-more-may-find-refuge/4837438

mike:

01 Oct 2013 10:39:51am

Clearly you're the one who is desperately spinning, Dave. As Zoltar pointed out I was referring to the endpoint, when Rudd took office in 2007, not the early stages of the Howard policies. Effects take time to kick in.

paulinadelaide:

30 Sep 2013 4:24:00pm

I find it difficult to follow how you get from your opening sentence to your last. Even so I was unaware another ship had sunk and lives lost. But the fact that the govt may have delayed sharing it with me wouldn't seem to have stopped it from happening, largely due to the normal course of events where typically something happens and then it's reported. I note your quote from Howard. I also note the quote held quite well until Rudd #1 changed the system. You obviously care about the well being of refugees, which is fine. But to blame silence from the Abbott government on a boat sinking is utter drivel.

Linda:

What point are we, as a nation making?? We can't even be up front and HONEST with ourselves.

Childrens lives are being lost! And yet we spew out jargin on how we value childrens lives.... so much were giving $75,000 to have ONE!!So much hypocrisy: all front benchers are Catholic!

Just for the record they've (the Catholics) have gone againt God because they worship 'saints' 1st rule is: worship only God no other idols eg st michael, st jude etc ALL Catholics have broken the first commandment!

They're hipocrates

Any other 'Christian' Prime Minister would be devastated by the loss of so many, especially children.Abbott don't careHis religion don't careHis party don't care as long as there's pate from a goose thats force fed.

mortan:

EVAN:

30 Sep 2013 4:25:52pm

Keep up the blame game Paul and the ABC video of the rescued Asylum seeker blaming all Australians for the tragedy.If it has the same effect on the majority of my fellow Australians as it had on me then our hearts just got a little bit harder.Australians don't like que jumpers and have no sympathy when they come to grief.

DaveS:

30 Sep 2013 4:27:41pm

A couple of things you stated resonate ......the Coalition stopped feeding the beast, we might have found our way to a more humane policy.... one can only hope. A touch wishful and a slap ironic if it does....The Australian people and the media will not be controlled in this way, and will continue to hold the Government to account. They will be forced to break their silence eventually..... shamefully some are swallowing this form of blatant censorship. The minister has stated he will only comment on operational issues , so any other questions will be ignored. THAT is not how an elected official of the Australian Govt should act

DaveS:

01 Oct 2013 8:21:06am

I believe that if asked a question by our free and unencumbered media , he should answer. We like our media to ask difficult questions to our elected representatives , and we like it even more as the minister is required to answer or have it put on record that they didn't.What happens to a reporter if they publish a scoop that affects Mr Morrisons' operational issues? Will they be punished? Silenced?What of a whistle blower?? If you see something illegal occurring and it doesn't come up in our well vetted and spun weekly report, will you be prosecuted?Will these issues become seditious? Its now a military operation so that's a real possibility.No apparently worrying about open and transparent Govt makes me a sycophant who voted Labor and loves Mr Rudd.

Michael:

I beleive that if he is asked a relevent question by our free and unencompered media he should answer.

However there is no supression of media there is no 'shamefully some are swallowing this form of blatant censorship.'

There will still be briefs but they people involved have better things to do then drop everything and talk to the media every time something 'interesting' happens.

"What happens to a reporter if they publish a scoop that affects Mr Morrisons' operational issues? Will they be punished? Silenced?What a disgusting question. You seem to be suggesting that the minister is going to be involved in some ilegal or underhanded activities with no evidence to even suggest anything of the sort.

"What of a whistle blower?? If you see something illegal occurring and it doesn't come up in our well vetted and spun weekly report, will you be prosecuted?"If you do something illeagal I hope so. If you do something that is legal it would be very hard to.

"No apparently worrying about open and transparent Govt" I don't know why you are worrying about an open and transparent government when it is no less open and transparent now then what it was four weeks ago. It is just structured differently.

At first glance it appears you just have a problem with change. You liked having up to the minute breifings of media and don't want that to change.

Pete:

30 Sep 2013 4:30:43pm

More naive diatribe on a complicated issue. The boat got into trouble in Indonesia, the people got on a dangerous boat in Indonesia, and it sank in Indonesia. How this is Australia's problem, I don't know. If the author is suggesting we run a search and rescue service, the smugglers will simply up the trade, and use even cheaper, less seaworthy boats. That's the problem with the pro-refugee lobby: they just don't think things through, rather, it's one continuous series of simplistic soundbites on how mean we are. The voters spoke at the election: they don't want these people, and won't be blackmailed by them into saving their lives that they choose to risk. This is different to accepting refugees overall, most people are quite happy to take those from the UN camps.Most people are sympathetic, but don't feel a skerrick of responsibility for these people-smuggled refugee's awful situation, and if you're looking to dispense sympathy, there are plenty of other causes felt more worthy (starting with those refugees that can't afford to buy their way in, and remain stuck in an inefficient UN camp system).

All Ears:

Zoltar:

01 Oct 2013 8:38:49am

All ears, the boat was headed for Indonesia when it sank, not Australia.

And given that is appears that the vessel was carrying insufficient fuel, the intended destination may have never been Australia. Sailing into International waters and hailing a Navy taxi is a common ploy.

Serendipitous:

30 Sep 2013 4:36:55pm

Whether or not Mr Morrison believes a media blackout is critical to his government's plans to turn back the boats, the one thing it will achieve is to cause many Australians to FEEL that things have changed since the election, whether they have or not. If this was the government's intention, some will consider it politically smart. Others will consider it slithery.

Pat:

30 Sep 2013 4:39:17pm

Anyone who does not feel for the poor, unfortunate victims, has no heart.

Anyone who believes that allowing and assisting them to come to Australia, has no brain. Any person with commons sense and basic logic will realise that re-settling people who arrive by boats would only 'invite' thousands more to end up drowning on the open sea. No matter how much you increase the numbers of settlers , there will always be thousands more who will 'jump' on the leaky boats, if is the ultimate prize is the prosperous life in Australia

Please don't pretend to claim some sort of 'high moral grounds' and some sort of 'super' compassion by encouraging more boats to end up like the last one. There is nothing compassionate about innocent children drowning in the sea. Such hypocrisy?!!!

whitelephant:

gottabejokin:

30 Sep 2013 4:40:50pm

for a minute there I thought this was a fantasy piece with all the garbage in it. Floating at sea for 26 hours, accordong to who, here we have these lefties using lies and innuendo to push their personal causes. The fact that those on board from LEBANON were not refugees but finacial country shoppers that could afford to pay for 10 odd family members, a sat phone etc puts these claims as garbage. Bringing 8 children(really big centrelink payments hey) on a boat then phoning as soon as they leave the shore and expect a taxi service to come get them, I am sorry but I do not have any sympathy for these types of people. Why is it they managed to save themselves but no one else, what ever happened to family first, this just goes to show how shallow these people are, its all about money, bugger their families, 50 metres from the shore line but so many died, there is a lot more to this than we are being told by these illegals, rough seas, certainly not in any of the pics, more of a set up.

peter abbott:

30 Sep 2013 4:42:34pm

So Paul why didn't you hold the previous Government and the person responsible to account seeing you think it is so important.

Over a thousand died that we know of and thousands died about which we have no details. In the latter days of the Rudd Gillard attempt at Government it was ho hum another death and not one of you journalists held the person responsible to account. Not one of you.

A boat flounders on a remote beach in Java (have a look on a map) and its bleeding hearts at 20 meters.

I await the day that honourable journalists get out and find out the facts and report them rather than rehash news feed data with there unwanted and usually inaccurate opinions attached.

OverIt:

01 Oct 2013 10:11:17am

No nation can be held responsible for events over which they have no control, do not sanction and that take place within another sovereign nation. Australia has no reason to hold an enquiry just because we were the intended destination.

It's like suggesting that the US should hold an enquiry into a New-York bound Qantas flight that gets into difficulties just past New Zealand and crashes into the sea.

Idiocracy:

30 Sep 2013 4:45:43pm

"The Australian people and the media will not be controlled in this way, and will continue to hold the Government to account. They will be forced to break their silence eventually, as Morrison was this week."

Paul,

I think you're over-estimating us (Australians and media alike). I think the Abbot Government is on the money. Treating us like morons got them elected, so it seems only reasonable that treating us the same will keep them in government.

Stupid is the new black (I hope this slogan doesn't confuse you all due to its length, but it doesn't really work if kept to only three words).

Graham H:

Bluey:

30 Sep 2013 4:49:34pm

What the..? Do you people not understand the meaning of the word hypocrisy?

For the past several years the only news source we had on boat arrivals and the whereabouts of asylum seekers (university dorms for example) was from locals, merchant shippers and shortwave enthusiasts sending info onto Bolt and suchlike.

A bit like the huge convoy of no confidence that was studiously ignored by MSM.

So it's pleasing to watch a weekly report of facts from Morrison and Commander Campbell - better a boardroom meeting than gossip around the tea room.

Kitty:

30 Sep 2013 4:49:37pm

The government of secret men's business makes a joke of Australia. Attempts at secrecy suggests something to hide, greater scrutiny will result and that will not be soon enough. Lies and slogans should not be tolerated, if MSM won't hold the blue tie boys to account social media will so the rabbit has had his last undignified run.Our society has reached such low standards/morals with the asylum seekers that we can never judge other countries on human rights. We have condoned racial, religious, and gender abuse over recent times and we should be deeply ashamed.

dean:

Crikey Paul - get a real job. It has been 3 weeks and you are squealing that there is a conspiracy. This govt is doing exactly what it said it was going to do.

You are not getting a tweet every 10 minutes so it is now a cover up????

Through one of the largest policy mistakes in our countries history (self admitted by Rudd during the election campaign), the Govt provided a glimmer of hope to desperate people - that if they risked their lives and paid smugglers they may be able to stay in Australia.

This govt is now slowly but surely putting in place a range of initiatives to make it impossible to get here by boat. Some call it mean policy - I call it life saving policy.

Lets have a talk about it in 12 months time when the mess starts to clear up - until then you are simply preaching to the far left who are thankfully seeing their govt funded legal service and advocacy provision jobs disappear and the massive waste cease.

All Ears:

OverIt:

01 Oct 2013 10:15:35am

FROM day one. Not ON day one.

It's obvious you're searching for ways to prove Abbott is a moron and your leaderless party of choice would have been a much better bet, but give him longer than two weeks to dismantle a problem that was five years in the making.

Mike (the other one):

The answer to this load of drivel can be summed up by answering the second paragraph.

We don?t have 'cruel' policies, it is simply a standard of border protection and we don't force anybody to make perilous journeys.

We also don't tell anybody to sabotage their boats and then demand to be rescued by Australia. We don't tell them to pay people smugglers large sums of money for illegal passage. We certainly don't tell them to put their families at risk and we did not advise them to make their way to Indonesia in the first place.

In fact Paul, you're part of the problem by writing the sort of stuff that encourages people to do the wrong thing.

OverIt:

01 Oct 2013 1:35:15pm

Let me try to explain it to you, All Ears.

Say, for example, there's a village pub in an area where mobile reception is patchy or non-existent. It's well used by regulars and occasionally someone down on his luck rocks up and is given a free beer.

Now say there's a change of manager, who feels sorry for the homeless man and decides to give free beers to any homeless person who turns up. After all, there's not many homeless people in the area.

Within a short space of time, not only are homeless people turning up in larger and larger numbers, but people who aren't homeless are paying a local guy to hire them a bus to get to the pub, where they will pretend to be homeless so as to get free beers. As more and more people are given free drinks, the publican has to put up the price of beer for his regulars. The regulars also have to wait longer and longer to be able to get served the beer they are now paying a higher price for.

Now, say, there's another change of manager. This manager decides not to give free beers any more. He announces this to the regulars, but it takes time for the message to reach those who come from further afield to get the message.

So all those who continue to rock up expecting free beers are doing so because of the PREVIOUS manager's policy, not the new one's.

Eventually the word will spread, but in the meantime the new manager can't accept the blame for trying to rectify a disastrous situation of the previous manager's making.

GP:

30 Sep 2013 4:54:17pm

I wonder what the Daily tele and the OZ will report. We will have to go back to former foreign ministers to speak on behalf of the Government. I presume they now have the spokesman role.Wed dont need media advisors. The footy season will soon be over and the Tele will have nothing to talk about. I presume there will also not be traffic gridlock on the M4 now that the refugees are off the front pages. Lets ask the liberal MP. I quite like the strategy. Dont talk about it, ignore it and all the problems disappear. Climate change, budget emergency, refugees , expense claims. Eyes, ears and mouths closed shut.

mack:

30 Sep 2013 4:54:34pm

I'm not sure how you can claim that this is a "do nothing" government in respect to boat people. The differences are there for all to see. Two weeks on the job and two boat loads of asylum seekers rescued in the Indonesian search and rescue zone have been handed over to Indonesian authorities; a boat load of asylum seekers in the Torres Strait has been returned to PNG, and boat people arriving in our own search and rescue zone have been shipped off to Nauru and Manus Island within 48 hours.

Also, I'm not sure how you can claim that ?The Howard government promised to decide "who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come". The results of that mindset are there for all to see this week?. Surely, it was the policy introduced by Rudd in 2008 that provided the precursor to the sinking off Indonesia this week? After all, Kev admitted during the recent election campaign that he was slow to respond to the people traffickers? response to his abolishing the Pacific Solution ? and the boats, and drownings, resumed.

Hmmm:

30 Sep 2013 7:04:16pm

Linda, Aussies did not let these children die, it was 1. Their parents who put them in dangers way, 2. It was the people smugglers who organised a condemned boat, 3. It was the Indonesian military who facilitated the transaction, 4. It was the Indonesian government who have done nothing to stop the these practices. Do not blame me for this tradegy!

Purrum:

reaver:

30 Sep 2013 7:20:44pm

This government very much represents We, the people, Linda, as the people voted for them and this was a central coalition election policy. We look out for our mates and we always have each others backs, but these people are not our mates.

BJA:

01 Oct 2013 11:23:16am

Australia, as you no doubt very well know has an elective oligarchy.The deficiencies of an oligarchy, any oligarchy, were pointed out in great detail by Plato.Nothing has changed.However it is surely irrational to say that because one mob won an election that every person in the electorate is then responsible for every thing which the government does.If you add to that the general level of bias bigotry and ignorance which informs the overwhelming majority of the electorate it is surely nonsensical to hang responsibility for the elective oligarchy's actions on someone who may have voted against them and done so for reasons based on what they believe to be fundamental principles of ethics.I unhappily submit to being governed by any government.When fools are placed in a position of power that's a matter for them and those who put them in that position. Like any noxious stimulus, all that can be done is to avoid it as much as possible and hope that it goes away sooner rather than later.Who knows, Abbott might decide that since he thinks carbon dioxide is weightless that he is not fit to be the Prime Minister of a nation state in 2013 and he might resign.

Jim Kapetangiannis:

30 Sep 2013 5:13:11pm

I've just read in another report on the ABC news web page that the asylum seeker boat that capsized was just 50m off the coast of Java. Indeed in that report, Indonesian military personnel are implicated in transporting these hapless asylum seekers to this boat.I would be very interested to know how close Australian navy or customs vessels are allowed to the Indonesian mainland, how long it would take to reach 50 metres from the Java shore from allowed limits and of course, what permission they required from Indonesian authorities to enter their sovereign territory.Maybe that will help us understand why it could have taken so long to reach these poor people. The other side of the story however is that the Indonesians were just 50m away. And they did what to help.....?Really....some perspective please

Victor of Kew:

30 Sep 2013 5:16:18pm

'We will determine who comes to this country and the circumstance in which they come.' Its not harsh and it is an endeavor to have a lawful and orderly migration system. Cooperation from Indonesia is demanded, (no visa , sent back to where they flew in from) and how is Australia responsible for a boat capsizing 50 -60 metres off shore.

Does Indonesia want Australia to patrol their borders to protect ours. Perhaps we should learn from Israel and the way they protect their borders!!

where's Tony:

30 Sep 2013 8:47:17pm

We will determine etc., I'm pretty sure the people of North Vietnam and Iraq must have thought along these lines too ! If only we'd listened to them we could have avoided 2 illegal conflicts.As a member of a Search and Rescue Squadron in The RAF a few years ago, I cannot remember one incident when helping those in distress in another nations waters was not met with approval by the those nations.No we Australians are not directly responsible for the tragic loss of life on the high seas but we are responsible for turning such a tragedy into a political football and using refugees as pawns in our stupid/self serving political games.Let me add FYI that I am no "Rusted on leftie" I simply want a government that leads and keeps me informed of which direction I'm being led in, only then can I make a conscience vote in the next election as I did in the recent one.

dean:

dave hall:

30 Sep 2013 5:34:16pm

Just to be clear these people set out from Indonesia in an overloaded crappy boat and it founders in Indonesian waters a long way from either international waters or Australia's rescue zone and we are to blame for the subsequent drownings? Man oh man the leftist mindset is just utterly WRONGNo one forced them onto the high seas in an unsuitable and unreliable vessel that was their own choice and a very stupid one indeed given the change of government and the change of policy that means that they will never get permanent residency in this country.

Personally I can not for the life of me understand why it is the case that Indonesia does not station more of its own navy assets in the area given the number of "Asylum seekers" illegal emigrants that foolishly go for "pleasure cruises" in this part of their rescue zone. Frankly their failure to do so shows that they are the ones who don't care. Meanwhile our navy is doing the heavy lifting by pulling the bodies ,alive and dead, from Indonesian waters as the "Asylum seekers" illegal immigrants treat them like some kind of free taxi service.

The solution is simple we should move our navy assets out of the area and make that repositioning so they are well out of range very widely known. If needs be lets give a patrol boat to Indonesia so that they can rescue the idiots who are killing their own children * and then blaming us and then the question of where to take those rescued fools will be moot.

peter of mitcham:

30 Sep 2013 8:40:55pm

Dave! If you can't understand what motivates people to seek asylum, that's fine. Go and find out, from a reputable source. This is not about boats, remember we arrived on boats with no papers and riddled with diseases, it's about people.

skubeedoo:

30 Sep 2013 5:38:08pm

Can someone please explain to me at what point some other country will stand up and accept responsibility for people claiming to be asylum seekers. If a boat breaks up and sinks 50metres of the coast of another country, how is this Australias problem?

Looking at the news coverage and online stories, these people do not look like they are escaping persecution but rather they are escaping from an unfavourable economic climate.

While I very much sympathise with those who have lost a loved one I am one voice among the masses who would like to see a stop to the boats and legitimate refugees take the priority the deserve in being allowed into Australia to start their new life.

This country was built up to what it is by legitimate immigration and and the process works but it seems now that there are some who think they are more deserving than others who are satisfied with jumping the queue without regard for the genuine refugees.

Hudson Godfrey:

30 Sep 2013 5:38:11pm

There's no doubt in my mind that our asylum seeker policies are little more that the recycled detritus of the past decade and a half of failure. Failure to meet our humanitarian obligations and failure at the same time to stem the trickle of little brown people having the temerity to sail towards Australia. Some of them keep coming and a few keep dying.....

The main thing Morrison's cack-handed attempt to disrupt the 24 hour news cycle seems to have produced thus far is the absence of the government's injection of spin into the stories reaching our ears regardless. Ironically the picture we're getting leaves us most incredulous as to how the Indonesians managed to fail over an extended period of time to respond to an unfolding emergency within sight of their own shores. It seems to me that the only time there are too few resources to complete that task are when nobody actually cares to respond. Thus in the absence of spin the situation gets a good deal worse to the tune of people on both sides playing blame games while people drown and the most withering of gazes are cast once more in Indonesia's direction.

The only way to fix this is to deal with the obvious need to relieve pressure on asylum seekers getting in boats by taking enough of them so that an orderly queue emerges and the remainder recognise the merit in waiting and applying rather than pushing their luck with the seas and a very unsympathetic immigration department.

To fail to provide those alternatives under the circumstances these events have created is getting dangerously close to being at diplomatic odds with our nearest and largest neighbour. So I for one think it about time that Abbott realised that "We will decide..." statement of Howard's was never really an assertion we could hope to back up.

Rub their noses in it:

01 Oct 2013 12:55:37am

Hudson Godfrey,

They are not obligations. They are not legally binding. It is however something we choose to do.

But when arrivals by people smugglers have reached 1,000 per week, which amounts to about 50,000 per year. And when 1,000s of people have lost their lives on dangerous boats which threatens to grow into many thousands more in coming years. And when our entire Immigration program of 200,000 plus per year is being threatened with being taken over (that is when you include family reunion immigration) by people smugglers let alone our humanitarian immigration program. I suggest that it is time to rethink our policies on how we help people who come to Australia to claim Asylum. And your suggestions of taking people in such numbers in our humanitarian immigration so as to stem the flow, given that the people who can afford to pay $10,000 per head to the people smugglers puts them in the most wealthy 10% of their source countries, makes absolutely no sense.

Don't get me wrong I'm not vouching for vote grabbing slogans or for megaphoning policies to get votes but I think it is fair to say that Labor's open door policy for asylum seekers has been a disaster, not only for Australia but also the asylum seekers themselves.

The "We will decide..." statement of Howard's is only something Australia can back up only as long as Australia enjoys the favour of the global financial elite who effectively own Australia. Funnily John Howard did more to deliver Australia to these global financial elites, with his blind ideology, than any other Prime Minister in our history. No doubt these global financial elites will rub the noses of all Australians in it at a time of their choosing. When, not if, this happens the sounds of those racist Australians complaining about their mistreatment will no doubt bring a smile to many peoples faces.

Hudson Godfrey:

01 Oct 2013 1:20:56pm

There are obligations to human rights and we have been violating them in the name of deterrence. That much at least is abundantly clear, and should be on our consciences more than I think we allow it to be when we apologise for brutality in the name of a form of pragmatism that serves some very ugly motives.

I think we might agree that even if we are inclined to roundly condemn our government's policy and the shills who defend it what we cannot do is sustain an orderly program unless we set some limits in line with doing our part fairly, properly and hopefully in line with humanitarian obligations. And if only we meant to obey the rhetoric we hear that puts saving lives at sea ahead of selectively denying people with the wrong kind of background then we would do just that.

The fact is that we're clearly beholden to a cat let out of the bag at first by Hanson, then Howard and to some degree every so called leader since. How to find our way back to the bipartisan support we had for humanitarianism during the Fraser years is a question we can by now barely even hope to answer.

My argument nevertheless would be that once we set numbers what we mostly do is argue about where those people are to be taken from. Either the camps in Africa, Burma or somewhere else further afield or maybe a few more from Indonesia simply because if only those people had ANY viable alternative to getting on a boat they might actually be encouraged to wait. It is after all merely human nature to treat an ounce of hope as if it outweighs a ton of deterrence.

Dad:

30 Sep 2013 5:38:38pm

No Paul, as the recent election may indicate a majority of Australians have a view on the problem and nothing you or the media says is likely to change that. What do they have to go on if, for example, they only read this website and ignored the commercial media.

1. Dozens drown, a stones throw from shore in Indonesia.2. Those drowned were mostly Lebanese.3. Many of the victims are children, put in harms way by their parents.4. Those drowned were assisted in getting to their vessel by Indonesian military personnel.5. The survivors are complaining that they were not assisted by Australia.

I am not saying any of this is 100% true but it is likely it will turn out to be correct as more information comes to light.

What conclusion, do you expect people to draw? Why would most people think that the Australian government are responsible? Why would the elements of this particular tragedy make people sympathetic?

Rub their noses in it:

01 Oct 2013 1:11:06am

Dad,

I thought the lack of discussion on Asylum Seeker policies during the actual election campaign, with the exception of Jamyes Diaz, was almost deafening. So much shouting and frothing at the mouth by the LNP prior to the actual election campaign and then almost nothing during it.

I think by the election campaign most people realised that Tony Abbott's stop the boats slogan and his turn the boats around when safe to do so policy was a load BS. I suggest most people voted for Tony Abbott because too many Australians mistakenly believe that he can wave a magic wand and return Australia to a John Howardesq prosperity, not understanding that John Howard used ever increasing private and foreign debt to create an allusion of wealth.

Dad:

01 Oct 2013 8:14:09am

Not saying it will be possible or easy. Tony Abbott will find it is actually very difficult but just because it is hard does not mean serious effort should not be made. Most Australians want to see some attempt at slowing the rate of boat arrivals and drownings. The boats are just a final step. Working with under resourced neighboring countries to stop arrivals by air into those countries would be a good first step.

Rub their noses in it:

01 Oct 2013 2:29:15pm

Dad,

You missed my point.

Which was most people who voted for Abbott, voted for him for reasons other than his Asylum Seeker Policies.

I believe by the time the election campaign started most people were sick of the three word slogans and the megaphoning of policies which most people had come to see as appeals to their worst side for votes. I think even Abbott became aware that if he used these messages to any significant extent during the actual election campaign then there were a significant number of people, including his supporters, who were ready to call BS to his face, in front of cameras and on national TV.

Darren:

30 Sep 2013 5:44:29pm

Spot on Paul. If the Abbott government wishes to hide and conceal information regarding their policy commitments then Australians will judge their cowardice accordingly. We will get the information from those willing to speak the truth in real time. Slogans only work when in opposition which the coalition is yet to understand. The coalition have a track record of demonizing asylum seekers (children overboard lies during the Howard government) to create fear against desperate people in need of compassion. No policy is too low while pretending it demonstrates strength to ignore the plight of the vulnerable. Why? Because Abbott. That's why.

Kazza:

lucky guess:

30 Sep 2013 5:49:22pm

What a lot of hideously imbalanced rubbish.Noone is stopping the media from reporting anything Paul and they are issuing weekly bulletins as well. Seems to me you like a lot of media types are missing being spoon fed.You might get some exercise now chasing leads. Another thing you can do is a bit of independent research to improve future offerings

Bottlebrush:

30 Sep 2013 5:50:14pm

I don't know where this idea came from about the media holding the Coalition to account for their immigration policy. It never happened in the past three (or even six) years and has not happened in the last few weeks! If they had done this we might have had a bit more scrutiny and people could have seen what a sham the "Stop the Boats" slogan really is.

Accountant:

30 Sep 2013 6:00:49pm

Interesting take on this article from the "righties". The real point is that Abbott and Co made so much election milage out of boat arrivals and Labor "losing control of our borders" (a moronic statement since the asylum seekers were routinely stopped and rounded up). And all the time the current mob were belittling the previous mob for being unable to stop it happening. Stop the boats from day one, was the boast.It's not quite so easy when you are the one having to negotiate with neighbouring countries who may not like your plans.So we get "buy the boats" and "hide the boats", and people drowning... all of which, prior to the election, was apparently an outrage caused by Labor, but is now just something that happens and is not as bad as ferries sinking in the Phillipines.Typical conservatives... don't give a twopenny cuss for anyone who's not their own family or circle of friends. And these guys call themselves "the adults"!Time to really grow up guys... smell the industrial pollution, overcome your intrinsic fear of admitting problems and face it that what we are seeing now is nothing compared to what will happen when a few low-lying countries go underwater. Oh, wait, I forgot, that climate change stuff is all leftist drivel.

Clark K:

30 Sep 2013 8:21:23pm

Why are you so worried about the rest of the world? Focus your energies on our own people and their progress. Our own Aborigines, the poor, the disabled. Australia cannot save the world. Let's do our best to improve the lives of the citizens who are here. All this asylum stuff is a few of our elite trying to get plum jobs in the UN.

RoxyR:

30 Sep 2013 6:02:45pm

One aspect I find interesting is that the people on the boats have the telephone numbers of the Australia authorities so that they can come and rescue them. How many people in Australia would know who to ring?

A second question, do they have the telephone numbers of the equivalent Indonesian authorities programmed in before they set off?

Coogera:

30 Sep 2013 6:03:53pm

The articles are getting worse! Why on earth does the Australian government have to give immediate briefings about sinkings occurring in other countries. Government accountability is limited entirely to events under its jurisdiction.

deliah:

Terry2:

30 Sep 2013 6:08:34pm

We have been told - although the foolish media shutdown makes it confusing - that the most recent tragedy occurred 50 meters off the coast of Java and evidently those onboard had been phoning AMSA repeatedly.If this is correct it is totally unacceptable that Australia is being blamed and it is time that Indonesia accepted some responsibility for these people and the boats which, as the coalition have repeatedly pointed out are Indonesian boats with Indonesian crews plying from Indonesian ports.I hope that Abbott will be sensible and ask for Indonesia's full cooperation in stopping this trade in humanity.

Alexander Downer - all of a sudden ubiquitous - has pointed out that Singapore frequently returns boatloads of unauthorised arrivals without a quibble from the Indonesian authorities; that's interesting can we have more information please ABC.

Goose Lechien:

30 Sep 2013 6:11:49pm

So Mr Karp, what is your suggested solution to the deaths at sea?

The only way that this will be achieved is by stopping the boats or offering a service in well found vessels or aircraft. If this service were to be offered this would put the monied ahead of the poor. The boat people are a class of refugee who have the finance to take the leaky boat option and avoid the prolonged waits (sometimes years) in refugee camps.

I know that we get told there is no such thing as a place in a queue for refugees but aren't paying boat arrivals trying for some advantage over the people waiting in camps.

Refugees who do not have the finance are not faced with the prospect of drowning only of waiting.

The policy of not allowing access to mainland Australia and processing boat arrivals offshore presumably puts these people with access to boat fares into some alignment with the poor people waiting in the camps.

I just wonder if boat people processed in the Australian camps get a faster track to Australia than those waiting in foreign camps. If this is the case it would seem that the monied are still getting a better deal.

What is your plan, Mr Karp.

What really gets up my nose is any implication that Australian Border Services (of any ilk) are somehow responsible for deaths at sea because of reaction times.

All these deaths at sea will sadden most Australians but let us just remember that it is the refugee that makes the choice step on these unseaworthly craft that are operated by illegal smugglers. The expectation that there will be an Australian vessel on hand to answer every emergency or scuttling in the Indian Ocean is obviously impossible.

I'm not so sure that scheduled media bulletins on refugees, rather than the daily inudundation, is not a bad idea. Maybe this would allow time to produce accurate and informative reports.

rexie:

30 Sep 2013 6:16:43pm

I would like just anybody at all to propose a workable and humane solution to this problem. The two extremes regarding asylum seekers is that we accept everybody and anybody that wants to come here. Clearly this is not possible as Australia is not financially, or environmentally capable of supporting the purported numbers who wish to come here.On the other hand we can completely reject any applicants regardless of their (at times) horrendous experiences and cruel circumstances.Clearly neither of these options is tenable.All the posturing by all sides of politics is devoid of any meaningful solution. I believe Australia has more than done its share and should not be ashamed that we cannot accept all and sundry. Because of Australia's resettlement program (unlike many other host countries) it is an attractive target for disillusioned citizens of other countries. This would no doubt increase the likelihood that more people would want to come here. I would like to be humane and welcome with open arms "the tired and the hungry and the homeless" but this is impossible.It is time the UN addressed the problems that create this situation. So much of the world's resources seem to be aimed at fomenting and supporting wars against sovereign countries for dubious reasons. Imagine all the money invested in immoral wars and looting of other countries' resources, being spent on bettering the lives of these same people! I know it is a pipe dream, but dare to dream.

Breach of Peace:

30 Sep 2013 6:18:17pm

It is an exaggeration to say,"if it chooses not to speak about asylum seekers" Paul. The Minister or General representing the Australian Government will be speaking but just not as regularly as the public may wish with public and media scrutiny. You are 'assuming' that the majority of "Australians to reject cruel policies which are evidently still incapable of deterring the perilous journeys". Please cite some evidence instead of your emotional opinion as we can then make up our minds.

Australia has been and is complicit with the Americans in their theatre of false flag and immoral wars in Iraq, Iran (helping Iraq with intelligence with the Iraq-Iran war) and Afghanistan. From the invasion, occupation, dissemination and dislocation of millions of civilians creating untold hardships for these scattered peoples and then they land in our country and we wonder why? The last group before this boat was all of the above. Please appropriately place the blame where it genuinely should be. Countries have to deal with the mess these wars create at taxpayer expense which is such a futile waste of resources. The deaths from drowning are nothing compared to the brutal murder and mayhem in war. You are most correct that the "Asylum seeker problem won't quietly go away!"

Toneli:

30 Sep 2013 6:27:00pm

Bill Shorten, I heard spouting that Australia's population, as it is today, except for the first nation people, is made up entirely of immigrants, many of whom were refugees. Australia has always been sympathetic towards the refugee's plight - and I might add, still is.

It is not refugees per se, that Australian's are against, but their method of arrival, legal entry or "illegal".

Alexander Downer made a valid suggestion (see http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/grisly-trade-must-end-before-relations-with-indonesia-can-mature/story-e6frgd0x-1226729529046) and that was that every "illegal" be returned and exchanged for someone who has been waiting, sometimes years, in refugee camps. Seems to me that this makes significant sense.

Rub their noses in it:

01 Oct 2013 1:41:01am

"It is not refugees per se, that Australian's are against, but their method of arrival, legal entry or "illegal"."

should be rephrases as

It is not refugees per se, that Australian's are against, but the people smuggling, the debt bondage, the debt slavery, the abuse of vulnerable people, the deaths at sea, the enormous strain placed on our defence force personal to unceasingly act as a rescue service, the destruction of identity documents, the unverifiable stories that are used to gain approval for Asylum Claims and the uncontrolled nature that goes with this vile trade in people that the Australian people are in general against.

Terry Torian:

30 Sep 2013 6:39:29pm

Encouraging the boat people to do their grubby little deals with people smugglers is what causes these drownings. If they weren't encouraged by Australia's refugee industry then these deaths would not occur.

Rub their noses in it:

01 Oct 2013 1:25:51am

The problem for Rudd, Gillard and Labor was and is that they allowed their Asylum Seeker policies to be hijacked by well intentioned people who had no real grasp on the human disaster that their policies would allow the people smugglers to create.

Waterloo Sunset. 2014:

After reading comments about this for a few years, it's apparent to me that there are two camps (not Kevin's BTW): two schools of thought.

There are those that don't want drowning and there are those that cause it.

Those that don't want drownings have been vigorously pointing out the problems with sending messages to the drowners (the smugglers and embarkation helpers) and the travellers, that the boats at some stage will be rejected.

Those that cause the drownings have been vigorously campaigning to allow boat people to land and be released into the community - or at worst, released into accommodation while being advocated into turning their story into a genuine case.

In the first school (made of the logical, caring sensible citizens), Australians believe that if they (the travellers)can be convinced that their boat will be rejected, they will live. They then have the choice of continuing their lives in The Punjac, or returning to Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, or Beirut - the Paris of the East (a beautiful place).

If they can be convinced - as they obviously are (by the second school of thought) - that they can come and live here without enrolling offshore application process, they will keep paying $20,000 per person passage and getting help from the Indonesian army: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-29/indonesia-military-implicated-in-deaths-of-asylum-seekers/4987772

It's not hard to convince them, just keep writing on the internet, they all have access to the www. Just make sure that you don't regret it.

Willi Wundshammer:

Ravensclaw:

30 Sep 2013 7:15:00pm

Funny how with the exception of the Christmas island drownings (and only because the ALPBC had no choice in the matter), the left leaning media didn't seem to give a rats about asylum seekers drowning.

Now that we have a Coalition Government such events are suddenly big news again.

Don't blame the incoming government for this. Fault lies first and foremost with the people deciding to make the dangerous journey and the people smugglers. Moral responsibility lies with the former Labor Govts that completely and utterly wrecked a working system.

These drownings occurred 50 metres from the Indonesian coastline and we now have 3 opinion essays attacking the Coalition Government, and none in support.

I call this action from the ABC yet another of many instances of deliberate left wing political bias and a disgrace.

My taxes are paying for a left wing cheer squad. I want my tax dollars back!

Reinhard:

rudski:

Where are the political "wins" if they do release the information daily?

I don't believe the government is attempting to slow down the 24 hour media cycle in general - it's attempting to remove the policy from the 24h cycle.

It makes total sense, purely from a political point of view.

The daily updates will always be negative news.It takes away the fuel the opposition would use against the government.It adds confusion on the total number of arrivals.The government can claim boat arrivals are down.It gives time to focus on other policy.I'm sure there's more.

As for many of the points in this article, like the "free society" argument they don't stake up to the reality.

Fact, Indonesian government bodies helped profited and helped transport them to this "unspeakable tragedy".And so how it's our fault.....

Amethyst:

30 Sep 2013 7:23:57pm

Australia did not 'cause' this tragedy and we need to stop beating ourselves up over events that are beyond our control. Suggesting that this is a 'national tragedy' is nothing less than emotional blackmail. I don't believe you'll find the Indonesians beating their breasts about it.

Hmmm:

stephen:

30 Sep 2013 7:49:49pm

'a do nothing government ?'

Abbott's only been there for 3 weeks. Give him 3 years then get back to us.

The reason why Morrison has restricted the release of information about boat arrivals, is because those who are waiting to depart on more boats do not know the success or otherwise of previous vessels : the less information that people-smugglers aware are of, the better it is for us.

stuffitinyourpocketsandrun:

01 Oct 2013 12:24:50pm

Excuse me??...you have clearly forgotten that this entire front bench was in power for years and have already been ejected from office once by the Australian electorate back in 2007..this is take II and as such this admin is a mere continuation in every regard of that which operated under Howard!

The LNP NEVER renewed in opposition, they just recycled...the only new idea they have is Fraudband...everything else is a rehash of a policy platform already rejected in a landslide by the Australian electorate in 2007.

I want to live in Australia that still lends a hand to someone in dire trouble instead of turning them away in some idiotic attempt to preserve a lifestyle that others SHOULD remain ever envious of...it's a putrid and disgusting position and is tainted with xenophobia...I am surprised you guys haven't called for the building a great big electric fence around the land of milk and honey..

Nick:

I'm not going to add on what desperate people will undertake to escape what is bad to find a better place. Other than, a plea for more compassion folks (and a lot less politicking).

But I will reflect on the unfolding tragedy of those in a relationship with a parliamentarian. In opposition, they don't make many winning runs and implement not much at all. But after this election, now in government, their partners must wonder what it was all about, what has happened to the joy of making those much desired changes for the better.

Malcolm Fraser stated several memorable observations: that life wasn't meant to be easy; and, famously wanting to put sport back on the front pages. Did that twitch Killen's whiskers.

Original Aussie:

30 Sep 2013 8:02:38pm

The boat was full of foreigners , sunk at 50 meters offthe Indonesian coast - Why is it Australia's responsibility?, just because it was the DESTINATION? Hundreds die every month in the Mediterranean, bodies wash up all the time? is that Australia's fault too?. These illegal boat people get on their cell phns to relatives in Australia? for the Aust navy to go get them, the Aus Navy are not the NRMA !! for gods sake? Personally, I am sick and tired of hearing about the whole issue; If an adult makes the decision to get on an overcrowded un-seaworthy vessel to come to Australia, then THEY hold the responsibility of what happens. Not the Australian people.

stephen:

30 Sep 2013 8:04:32pm

What should concern us about this whole matter, (quite apart from whether a solution might be found that is agreeable to both parties) is that Indonesia seems not to take our protestations seriously, and they seem bent on a stalling procedure which might make their case easier for them, and harder for us ; my point is, is that if Indonesia is sometime in the future to be a significant trading partner, then what sort of relationship will be get, if now, at a very important moment when other societies are floundering and their residents are looking for somewhere else to live - a people, I might add, which is inimical to our Western values, though, of course, equitable to Indonesia's - that the world's most populist Muslim nation is so unhelpful - so instinctively difficult ?

M. Mouse:

30 Sep 2013 8:06:39pm

This written by a freelance journalist....must be annoying having to actually go and find some news to write about now we have finally got rid of the exhausting "today I announce some more spin" routine we had with the ALP who fed the chooks to stop them from having to do any real investigative journalism....so all they can write about is boats, boats, boats... isn't there anything else going on?

Polly Wolly Doodle:

01 Oct 2013 12:22:05pm

Dear Mr M Mouse,

Investigative journalism was seriously absent during the ALP tenancy. Why should it change when it costs money to do it? It is so much more cost effective to feed off the press releases from LNP or ALP.

Clark K:

30 Sep 2013 8:15:45pm

The Indonesians are upset about our sovereign borders yet cannot police their own and save a sinking boat 50 metres off shore. If you are of the left please explain how this sinking is our responsibility and at the same time howl at Australia for upsetting Indonesia over sovereignty issues. Are we responsible for deaths in their waters and if so are you suggesting we should sail into their waters without consultation? Be careful that your response does not belittle the capacity of our neighbor to manage their own affairs.Not expecting many replies on this one.

Ozziefried:

30 Sep 2013 8:16:57pm

What a nasty, nasty little bunch of isanders we Australians have become. We went to 'war' in Iraq because little gnome Howard wanted schmoochy up to Bush and bushettes. We particpated in the destruction of the Iraqi infrastructure, then when they come as asylum seekers to our shores, yes via illegal means, we boot them off to the tragic fate discussed in the aforementioned article. Abbott and his mottley lot have learnt well from gnome Howard and co, who really have not come to terms as to where Oz is geographically located on this globe. Meaning that Abbott and mottley lot are still stuck in mud of white colonialism, hence irrespective of which international conventions have been ratified by Australia, white fortress Australia reigns. Some not-very-bright earlier comment suggested that Oz should take a leaf out of the Israeli border 'protection strategy'. As I said, not-very-bright. Nation states of our region should not expect any intelligent strategies in relation to resolving the problems surrounding illegal arrivals, nor on any other matter. It little matters what Indonesia did or did not do, what matters is that Australia as a responsible nation state, take the lead in compassion. Too many big words for Abbott and mottley crew.

mack:

. how many asylum seekers do YOU think we should resettle every year?. how would YOU select them?. what would YOU do with the first boatload the exceeded the quota?

...or haven't you thought that far ahead?

Or do you think that Australia is a global lifeboat, and is required to pick up, and resettle, the losers from every third world conflict on the planet? Only if they have the means to pay a people trafficker, of course!

BTW, we went to war in Iraq and Afghanistan to pay our fee for remaining in the US alliance - after all, we've been bludging on it since 1942. It's as simple as that.

Original Aussie:

01 Oct 2013 2:05:37pm

Speak for yourself; if you are on a government housing list living in your car, and you hear that these refugees get precedence over you, you'd would be a happy camper; generalizing that Australians are nasty is extremely insulting.If you feel so strongly, invite a family of 17 to come live with you, i bet you'd change your tune then.

kwensee:

30 Sep 2013 8:29:57pm

Typically the softie journalists are out of touch with community ideals. The tragedy and "bad policy" is people getting in boats, and governments like Indonesia that let practically anyone transit through. If the asylum seekers really just want protection from persecution, they can equally go to India or Indonesia--two places much closer and easier for them to reach. We don't like people cheating our road rules and we don't, by the same token, like people cheating (short cutting) our border rules. Every country has them, it's not at all a bad thing.

Whitey:

30 Sep 2013 8:36:32pm

What we have learned from this tragedy is that Indonesian military ferried these poor souls to their doomed boats, and then refused to rescue them. It is obvious that the illegal transportation of these poor people is condoned at least at the middle level of government of Indonesia. It is unlikely that that Indonesia will help in any way to stop this very lucrative trade in desperate people.We must accept that we won't get much help from Indonesia to stop this trade. Indonesia had a responsibility to help, and didn't.I hope at least this will discourage people from making this perilous journey, but would have hoped it could have been achieved with out loss of life.

Helen:

30 Sep 2013 9:44:40pm

I place the blame of yet another boat tragedy on the bleeding-heart lefties. There is only one reason why this inhumane people smuggling business is still continuing and that is because smugglers believe there is still a product to sell with so many in Australia opposing a tough stand on asylum seeker boats. Just picture a people smuggler chatting to his mate: ?There is lots of money to be made in this business, bro. You can sell tickets to desperate people at thousands of dollars per head. You just tell them you already got thousands of people onto Australian soil. In Australia awaits free medical care, free education, plenty of jobs and if you still can?t find a job, the government will pay you a salary for free. They might even give you a house. It is paradise.??? Finding people to sail the boats, no problem, just get a teenager from somewhere and promise him he?ll be a tourist operator. The beauty is Australians can?t prosecute minors, so if caught, there is not much skin of his nose.? ?You can even bribe the Indonesian police to take the customers to the boat?. ?And you don?t need expensive boats, you see, that?s the trick. You use really old, leaky boats, because when it starts to take on water, the people on board can call the Australians. Always make sure that they have a contact in Australia???Yes, the Australians will even rescue in Indonesian waters? ?You see, those softy Australians are under so much pressure from their left-wingers, they?ll never make a tough stand. So, as long as we keep pushing boats with people, especially with children, in the water it will keep the lefties vocal, and we?ll be in business?.

Then picture yourself in front of someone sitting under a cloth in the scorching sun in a refugee camp who have the rags on their body as their only worldly possession and who see children die daily from mal-nutrition and diarrhoea. Go explain to them that they can?t have a second chance in Australia, because we rather spend our refugee budget on rescuing people who pay ridiculous amounts to people smugglers, involving rescue operations in Indonesian waters that must cost hundreds of thousand dollars, and we need to maintain detention centres.

Unfortunately, in Australia asylum seeker boats is now synonym with asylum seeker policy, yet if we can take a tough stand on boats and stop them, we?ll be able to help many, many more desperate people. Is the life of someone on a boat worth more than someone trapped in an asylum seeker camp? Please can we have less hypocritical emotion and more rationality in this debate!

Barnesy:

30 Sep 2013 9:46:09pm

I am a bit dismayed at the respondents here stating that Abbott is beginning to make progress already. Really? All I have seen is a seriously offended Indonesian government.

What I despise is the way he has used this serious international humanitarian issue as a way to frighten certain elements of our population into thinking we are "being invaded". That these people fleeing persecution are somehow going to threaten Australia's way of life.

And then, after 3 years of himself making the hot topic in all of the news every single night for 3 long years, just all of a sudden decides to not talk about it publicly any longer. Why? Because it suits him politically at this moment in time.

Catherine:

30 Sep 2013 9:52:44pm

Heard an Iranian asylum seeker on radio this morning saying he had paid $100,000 to a people smuggler to get his family of 17 to Australia but they were still waiting in Indonesia. He also said money was not a problem. A lot of them seem to be economic refugees. Why don't these people try the "legal" method of entry to Australia?

ClarkeK:

30 Sep 2013 11:27:20pm

How quaint and surprising that a freelance journalist argues that 'attempts to slow the 24-hour news cycle in general.....are doomed to failure".

Media coverage, especially by the ABC, is designed to support the current boat-smuggler model rather than look at more systematic humanitarian solutions (even Alexander Downer's proposed swap system - boat arrivals returned to Indonesia in return for a UNHCR refugee).

Look at the damage that ABC programs such as the live trade coverage, and the emotional stampede that followed, caused. Press coverage relies on emoting and engendering all sorts of controversies. It would have been far better to identify particular areas of the live trade and logically and co-operatively work towards solutions. As it was this ABC program has caused enormous harm to many Australians but the producers got their headlines.

The 24 hours news cycle can be easily resisted if the will is there and there is plenty of reasons not to acquiesce in this dumb agenda so that, in Bruce Dawe's language, you are 'this evenings headline'.

Frank:

01 Oct 2013 12:18:55am

Your opening paragraph "Should cause Australians to reject cruel policies" is of course a stupid ascertion and just what the do-gooders and so called refugee industry wants to promote. After spending thgree weeks seeing the continuing negative impact on another country where the do-gooders have been driving the process, Australia should be rejecting all uninvited arrivals and turning them over to the United Nations to deal with. Abbott needs to be playing hardball with Indonesia and stop all aid their until they actually take charge of the situation there and of course direct their Navy to accepty boats turned around or towed back. Had a gutfu;l of the whole episode and Rudd (and the rest of those in Labor who created the problem)needs to be brought to account for the whole bleeding mess. No pensions, no perks, just sanctioned and dismissed from public service in disgrace. It wont happen of course, because the system is as corrupt as the politicians are, and organisations like aid agencies and universities keep propping them up on pedastals as some reward for the dollars they have conned out of them.............A joke really and the ABC is complicit in it.

Barj:

01 Oct 2013 12:20:20am

The wisdom displayed by our present government of not providing timely announcements of the arrival, condition, problems and treatment dished out to refugees arriving in boats should not be debatable under present circumstances. It should be soundly condemned because it is a practice that should only be tolerated if and only if war has been declared and we are not even at war with the people smugglers let alone the refugees.

Thankfully the Indonesian press can still provide the timely information denied to us by our government.

Peter:

01 Oct 2013 1:59:28am

Tony Abbott and his side kick Scott Morrison chose to play extremely hard ball with the politics of the asylum seeker issue.

See a head kick it, pull some hair get after it, grab a headline with outrageous statements do so, win an election on the back of the misfortune of other human beings..... what a great thing to exploit. Whatever it takes.

The cool thing about the asylum seeker/economic refugee issue is the undeniable fact that massive numbers of refugees are on the move big time every where I travel.

And as a side note to Barnaby Joyce.........climate change refugees will come your way some time soon brother. Thats a rolled gold dead set certainty during your life time.

The way out of this mess is that I recommend that Mr Abbott toodle off to a quite retreat where he can contemplate the reality of servings for breakfast, lunch and dinner of the asylum seeker issue for many a moon.

The other undeniable outcome of hard ball politics is the messy Senate Election results which will further restrict the daily diet for Abbott and the other hard ballers like this Morrison and this fellow currently masquerading as the Attorney General.

One can only be truly grateful that Mr Abbott will have this additional dietary option......a whole bunch of single issue people to wrestle with will be the only desert course available at every meal.

There is much more to life than the winning of a political contest so maybe our new PM after quite contemplation during his retreat will finally get the reality of the awfulness of hard ball politics during his period as Leader of the Opposition and see his way clear to get the politics out of asylum seeker policy

CJD:

01 Oct 2013 2:26:25am

I'd love for many of the individuals who post on this issue who are so willing to allow people to go to hell who suffer under and seek to escape corrupt, brutal and injust regimes, or attempting to escape warzones or the threat of war, to be suddenly thrust in their shoes for a few years. By the way...don't spittle on your screens, it's unpleasant for the poor microbes who have to share your ugly space.

get real:

01 Oct 2013 5:26:42am

I for one am sick of the 'news' being filling with the politically inspired barrage of announcements about the illegal 'migration/invasion' of people from the rest of the world who choose to risk their lives and those of children. If people want to come here they line up like everyone else and make an application and it is properly considered in the context of Australia's needs and also the genuine humanarritian issues. It is simply ridiculous when Australian troops are dying to made the countries of origin safe (er) to them also have migrants from those countries claiming they want to come here for safety reasons. Economic refugees are not asylum seekers but simply those who can afford to bribe politicians, police and everyone else in the food chain.GR

Tony:

Seems talk sin Jakarta are going particularly well following apologies from Abbott for "breakdowns in the two countries' relationship under Labor over boatpeople and live cattle exports"

Breakdowns in the relationship under Labor? But of course, most sensible people have known that all along. Sensible people dealing with Indonesia have been well aware of the deep seated resentment arising from the way in which Indonesia's meat supply was summarily terminated with no consideration for the difficulties it caused.

Seems the Indonesian's actually appreciate Abbot's maturity and are prepared to let by gones be by gones and move on.

Pity Labor supporters and the ABC couldn't demonstrate the same maturity but it seems it is beyond the reach of both parties.

Tony:

"We are determined to end this scourge which is not just an affront to our two countries but which has so often become a humanitarian disaster in the seas between our two countries.

"Much of the detail will be left to further discussions between the coordinating security minister of Indonesia and the Border Protection Minister of Australia."

And with that SBY announces the deal is done and the staff have been left to deal with the details. Relationship repaired, problem solved, moving right along.

But then there is this .....

Abbott said ""Never again should this country take action which jeopardises the food supply of such a friend and partner as Indonesia is."

There it is. The cause of the rift between Australia and Indonesia. It was caused by a frenetic and out of control Labor administration looking for a cause and stomping all over Indonesia in their haste to appear sensitive to a minority group. Abbott understands and has dealt with it. The Indonesians are happy.

Hell, isn't this a refreshing change from the spin and spittle filled six years just finished?

Peter Graham:

01 Oct 2013 6:52:52am

The Howard government promised to decide "who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come". The results of that mindset are there for all to see this week.

No Paul the result of ignoring that mindset, as Rudd and Gillard did, is what has caused the influx of illegal migrants and 1000's of deaths at sea.Abbott's policies are not even in operation, yet you blame him for deaths as a result of his non existing policies.

You are a typical left charlatan, why tell the truth when it is easier to demonise the right.

Reinhard:

Alpo:

01 Oct 2013 7:00:49am

The idiocy of the Abbott Government's position on asylum seekers is clearly illustrated by their stance that because the asylum seekers sail to Australia from Indonesia, therefore they are an Indonesian problem. The President of Indonesia has already told Abbott their own truth: Asylum seekers are an Australian problem and an annoyance to Indonesia, because the only reason they go to Indonesia is to get asylum in Australia.The edifice of lies and manipulation is already crumbling down....

Rob:

01 Oct 2013 9:07:59am

Of course they are in agreement- TB agreed with everything SBY said in regards to respecting Indonesian Sovereignty- TB even agreed his "tough; statements of the past may have gone "too far".So from turn back the boats-to buy the boats- to hide the boats he has gone to water and joined the boats.Do keep up.

Michael:

Less then the length of a football field and we are supposed to take responcibility for it?

How far are we supposed to go? How far can we go?

It's not a simple matter, the only Australian vessels in the area were armed vessels.We're supposed to go more then a kilometer into soverign territory with an armed vessel to try and help people who were 50 meters off the coast.

Any fisherman, police boat, military boat of the indonesians could have been there hours before us and as the seas picked up and it became harder for us to help. It was left too late. But that is not the fault of the policy or our government.

I Love Polls:

01 Oct 2013 8:56:30am

It again shows just how old-fashioned Abbott is, if he actually thinks he can block us from information. It's as if he has no idea how quickly information travels around the world. To say it's to keep the people smugglers in the dark, just shows how primitive he thinks the Indonesians are when it comes to technology. All he's doing is letting others get their version of events out first, but then has to convince us otherwise if it reflects on him unfavourably. Better to just be honest from the outset. But what can you expect from a man who runs from question time and runs from the media? Perhaps the purpose of having his daughters hold his hands wherever he went leading up to the election, was to stop him from running away whenever a question was asked that was in the too hard basket.

Harquebus:

GrumpyOldMan:

01 Oct 2013 10:10:31am

Exactly H.

But there are no conservative votes to be won with that sort of policy are there! And radio shock jocks would lose their precious ratings if they advocated that. And the Murdoch journalists wouldn't support it because their boss is also a ty... !

GCS:

01 Oct 2013 10:50:10am

Yes me too- but the difficulty is that when we in the West 'intervene' to remove tyrants and abusers we often make matters worse- as in Iraq-Libya- Egypt-Syria-Afghanistan.I think the problem is that our intervention is more often than not based on the West's (including Israel's) economic and geo political interests.Be that as it may it is no reason to demonise those trying to escape from such tyranny and abuse. Our lack of understanding and compassion says more about us as a supposedly civilisied, intelligent society than any tyrant.

Snufkin:

01 Oct 2013 9:44:01am

Thanks for the article. As is so often the case, the author condemns the current, recently sworn in government's approach as "cruel" without offering much in the way of alternatives. No response is fault-free but one possible approach might be to provide those who are genuinely in danger with temporary protection only. Permanent Australian citizenship could automatically be ruled out if arriving (by whatever means), without the appropriate documentation and through the usual processes most others do cooperate with. Once the danger in the country of origin has been assessed BY AUSTRALIA as "acceptable" they could be returned. No doubt my suggestion will greatly annoy some, but apropos current noisy squeals about Indonesia's sovereignty, what about our own? Do we not, like all other nations including Indonesia, have the right to determine "who comes here and the manner in which they do?" What is so outrageously unacceptable about this? By the way I have a European friend who occasionally gives me a copy of the conservative British paper the "I X". (International Express). It is fascinating to read letters from many who, though themselves recent migrants to the UK, are critical of their adopted country's approach to "poorly regulated" immigration.Have a good one.

leafygreens:

The Reg:

True Blue Ozzie :

01 Oct 2013 11:17:40am

Abbott's daily beef about the boat people for the last 6 year's, has become the haunting of his government so soon into there term of government.

Australian's wont wear this blatant coverup on the issue of the boat people, it's just so un- Australian ! Abbott made this issue of boat people so huge in opposition , he can not just walk away and hide everything. It's time to stand by he's ridiculous policy and prove he's right or he's got it so very very wrong. I believe the later will be proven to be the truth !

His endless rampage and spin is just that, one could almost see him choking on his words, during his speech after dinner in Indonesia last night ! As was the case with bishop of her meeting with Indonesia .

There stupidity is making Australia look quite stupid on the world stage, not a good look for our future.

Craig Thomas:

01 Oct 2013 11:30:53am

The ALP, with the assistance and encouragement of all kinds of irrational utopianism from ABC journalists, implemented policies that encouraged people to migrate to AUstralia illegally and abuse the system of asylum.You caused over 4,000 deaths at sea.

Trying to pin the blame for the latest result of the ALP's dysfunctional policy in this area on the incoming government is shameless and hypocritical.

Articles such as this one - besides being an innacurate and poorly-analysed version of reality - continue to encourage people to embark on boats resulting in ever more deaths.

You should hang your head in shame, Paul, for the misery and suffering you have encouraged.

Australia accepts for resettlement 20,000 refugees per year. This is the second most generous refugee intake in the world. There is no reason the Australian taxpayer should be expected to fund any increase in this amount. And those 20,000 refugees we resettle each year should be sourced from the genuinely deserving genuine refugees who have fallen victim to warfare and persecution in their homeland.

Instead, the likes of Paul would like to see those genuine refugees displaced be economic migrants who are well-funded and enter this country illegally by boat after leaving Indonesia, a country from which they cannot claim to be fleeing on account of persecution.

ummagumma:

Reinhard:

01 Oct 2013 2:01:28pm

Craig not 20,000, 13,500...Are you not aware of the Coalition policy to reduce the humanitarian refugee intake by 6500?Oh and Abbott is solely to blame for any deaths at sea since he took office, he constantly declared that he would stop the boats. He hasn't...

Wave2surf:

01 Oct 2013 11:54:02am

I read several things from this article.

1 That Paul Karp thinks that the media are in charge and that the ministers job is to provide something the media can write about and sell

This is incorrect, its about time the media let Ministers do there job. It takes a long time for accurate information to be gathered, and presented. Ministers should not be forced to front the media when it isn't possible for them to even have the full facts, or accurate information. They will of course be accused of Lying if they get something wrong, and of hiding if they take time to do the job properly.I have thought for about a year that the PM should have weekly briefing and Q&A session, and spend the rest of the time running the country, rather than becoming the Medias lap dog.

2) How can Australia's government ever be responsible for a boat, registered in a foreign country, crewed by foreigners, that embarks on a journey from another country, and sinks without ever getting out of sight of land.

Even the fact that a boat, within site of land in Indonesia, would use a phone to ring Australia rather than radio and phone for local help is beyond belief.

If we were to blame any government, its the Rudd government, but even that is tenuous, as while his policy might encourage people to come by boat, at the end of the day, the Australian government has no power over any boating or shipping activity that originates in another country, until it arrives in our waters.

The responsibility for this boat sits firmly with the Indonesian Government, and the crew who were on-board, as they are the only ones with any power to actually stop a boat.

All we can do is make it pointless and undesirable for someone to arrive in Australia without ID, passport ets and hope like hell that discourages people from trying such a dangerous trip.

If we withdrew our Customs and Navy ships from Christmas Ireland, how many more would have drowned?

We should be commending both the Navy and Customs for how many people they have plucked from the sea and sinking boats over the last 6 years.

R. Ambrose Raven:

01 Oct 2013 12:04:07pm

Brutalising refugees is obviously much the most popular option - the entertainment is seen as well worth the cost.

Yet there appears to be quite a lot that could be done to develop small-scale industries both within the concentration camps (thus making them forced labour camps) and for the locals (who themselves have low incomes but face increasing resource stresses). Since the Robben (sorry, Manus) Island refugees won't be coming to Australia, we can be less afraid of training and educating and employing them in some cottage industry. A President of Nauru at the time of the Pacific Solution said, 'We would welcome them if they could assist in our development here."

Granted, many haters will want brutality on principle, regardless of the cost of detention (except as a useful excuse for complaint). Good, progressive policy being adopted anywhere risks the adoption of such policies in Australia. After requesting that readers be seated before reading further, I'll point out that good policy actually works, while bad policy doesn't, meaning that we are actually better off for good policy - and we are also really actually worse off for bad policy, even if the filthy rich successfully offload most of the cost onto the non-rich. A great problem is that the mainstream media treats the difference as an entertainment, and many people are stupid enough to be taken in.

Indeed, I'd argue that for us our greatest problem is that we have policies designed to appeal to the haters, the rent-seekers, and transnational capitalists, rather than simply seeking to arrange a comfortable standard of living for ordinary people. Policies that suit the former are very very unlikely to achieve the latter.

Reinhard:

01 Oct 2013 12:29:53pm

Abbott, Bishop and Morrison seem to have a "three wise monkeys" approach to asylum seeker policy..Abbott sees no evil. "Boats, what boats?"Bishop hears no evil. "I've never heard the Indonesians say they had a problem with tow-backs, honest!Morrison speaks no evil. "Don't mention the boats!"

Polly Wolly Doodle:

01 Oct 2013 12:30:15pm

This government is incompetent. Policy execution is a shambles already. One thing Abbott can brag about, is his competency in not taking responsibility and blaming the previous. Tedious and incompetent.

We now have an incompetent government that team Abbott showed every sign of becoming. We got the prime minister we deserved.

BJA:

01 Oct 2013 1:14:41pm

A geologist of my acquaintance accuses me of only going back to the blue green algae. She's right of course and my failure to take account of when the earth had a reducing atmosphere is a severe limitation on my perspective.You're not seeing much at all if you only go back to the Synapsids and as for trying to see things clearly when you cut them off at the diversion of the progenitors of the Chimps and humans - well the myopic constraint is excruciating.The problem of oppressed people attempting to escape oppression is definitely older than history. The understanding necessary to attempt a solution must be able to see the problem from at least the dawn of history.The current problem has "recent" origins in how eg the various peoples who now live in Afghanistan came to be there.From the perspective of since WW2 the current matter clearly has a source in the greed, myopia and stupidity of places like Australia and USA for not as a matter of urgency attempting material equality for all the world's peoples at least since the 1950s.What is and is not the Law?The parents are or are not responsible?Howard? Rudd? Gillard? Abbott? Feeeeerrrrget it?

No sane solution to a problem embedded in the entire history of humanity since at least 10,000 years ago is possible unless it is understood as such a problem.

Reuel T:

01 Oct 2013 1:16:59pm

Australia has an immigration policy. We will allow people to come here but we must discourage asylum seeking by boat.Tamils from Sri Lanka should go to the nearest Tamil country - India and Muslims from middle east can always go to the nearest Muslim country. Why is the ALP, Greens and journalist like Paul again trying to promote suicidal policies when the voters have just changed the government.Maybe Abbot should privatise the ABC if the ABC journalists want to destroy this country.

Rob:

Farside:

01 Oct 2013 1:24:42pm

Send them back..all of them...men, women, children... back to the nearest UN processing centre then, on a one for one basis invite the next soul, diligently waiting in the cue, with there checks verified and lacking the money to be a country shopper, to step forward and and come to Australia...problem goes away.

polony:

01 Oct 2013 1:40:24pm

Until he can stop the flow of people with a well founded fear of persecution who come from places where identity documents needed to get on a plane to Australia are difficult to acquire, our government is fighting against basic micro-economics if it wishes to prevent asylum seekers attempting to get here by boat.

Original Aussie:

01 Oct 2013 1:54:45pm

The undocumented arrivals travelling here on boats should be frisked and all cell phn's confiscated so they cannot call the Australian navy when they deliberately sabotage their boats, maybe this latest incident will reinforce Abbots tough stand on this highly profitable human trafficking business. Re: Indonesia is playing Australian pollies like a violin..with each chord played it asks for more money and under the table deals...Indonesia is corrupt from top to bottom.

Why don't the journalists ask why rich Arab nations will not take Muslim refugees? for example: Saudia Arabia and its neighbours? If you are a journalist of any note start asking the RIGHT questions?? and stop trading in propaganda from deluded leftist elites and politicians, whose focus on ideology outweighs their grasp on reality.

Original Aussie:

01 Oct 2013 2:01:15pm

Why does Indonesia always act so thin skinned and Australia politicians hesitant to ''upset' them...? Watched an interview on Lateline last night with a Indonesian woman politician, I listened carefully she talked for about 5 minutes and made absolutely no sense ? And she ducked questions left right and center! After all the (illegal) arrivals land on Indonesian soilthen travel to the coast? Plus the one thing i did manage to understand was she said after 2015 things will get worse??Investigate THAT !

Goku:

01 Oct 2013 2:03:16pm

I wonder what would happen if things started to go bad in Israel, and Israelis started fleeing to Australia, sometimes by people smuggler boat. I doubt they would be locked up or sent offshore. And this goes to the core of the approach to asylum seekers the government (both present and former) has.