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Seiko SBDC033 (sumo) or SBDC029 (shogun)

10-03-2018, 18:29

Hi all, I need some help.
I haven’t seen these two watches physically.
I am considering Shogun but can’t stop thinking of sumo blue dial.
Sumo feels more seiko-ish to me. Is shogun original Seiko design or has it derived its lines from sub?
Titanium doesn’t matter, I am after better finish and wearability as desk diver.
Please advise me on this, or any other options for a casual desk diver ( can go up to to 2k)

Comment

Can't go wrong with any of the above imo. All excellent fully functional dive watches with a lot of style. If you are after a more refined desk diver that still says classic Seiko then you could perhaps look at a second hand MM300 (sbdx001 or 017), that would be a fair step up in both movement and finish and has a sweet ratcheting clasp to the bracelet, but would be up towards the top end of the budget.

Comment

Had both, kept the shogun. Found the sumo a little ill proportioned personally. Personally I think the shogun with it’s unique case design, fairly good movement and ti case and bracelet is a modern Seiko classic. Nothing really like it in the seiko stable. Wish I’d got an orange dialed one when you could - been looking for A second hand one for several years now and come up with zip, nada, nothing which says a little about how sought after the orange one is. I’ve got the earlier reference without the X. Prefer it myself but that’s just me. As a desk diver the shogun wins hand down.

Hi all, I need some help.
I haven’t seen these two watches physically...

I think you would do well to follow the advice of the senior members above—both have more than their fair share of experience with Seiko divers at the price point you’re looking at. Jakes’ suggestion of a used SBDX001 is well-worth looking into too. I can only add bits on the new 6R15 watches you’re considering. Because they share the same movement and of approximately the same size, it would probably be down to your personal preference on styling. Since you haven’t handled them in person, don’t be too quick downplay the difference the case materials make though.

The very obvious difference will be in weight SBDC051 (189g), Sumo (183g), vs Shogun SBDC029 (114g). That is, the stainless steel watches are around 63% heavier than the Titanium. Most people will also feel that the Titanium is more comfortable on the skin, as it’s a poor conductor of heat compared to SS, thus its temperature is closer to that of our skin. Some people really like this aspect, while other like myself, like it, but not to the point of choosing only Ti watches.

...
Sumo feels more seiko-ish to me. Is shogun original Seiko design or has it derived its lines from sub?
...

I agree that the design of Sumo has more Seiko-specific design elements incorporated, both the case and dial. It is one of my favourite watches of all time—am on my third already. However, you may be surprised that this watch actually had no prior lineage, no family line. It is a bit like the original Monster SKX779 in that it just pops up out of the blue (Tsunami wave?), but its design was so well executed it started its own tribe. Both the Monster and Sumo are original designs, Monster a little more, but Sumo connects to Seiko’s dive watch lineage and makes itself a part of it.

The Cal 6R15 is a mid-range movement for Seiko currently. Thinking back through Seiko’s entire history, there has never been a stainless steel diver’s watch equipped mid-range movement. All Seiko vintage divers ran on either workhorse movements (Cal 6105, 6306/9, 7002, 7S26) or high-end (Cal 6159). Historical mid-range movements in the 56, 52, and 83 Series were never fitted to divers.

The Shogun SBDC029 looks a bit like an oddball at first, but it is actually part of a lineage of over two decades. The story started around 1994. At that time, Seiko’s entry level diver, the Cal 7002 Diver, was also the highest grade mechanical diver from Seiko! The mainstream Seiko 200m Divers at the time used quartz movement, with the Professional 200m ones using the Quartz 7C43.

During this period, the Japanese public had a revival of interest in mechanical movements—they led the world into the Mechanical Renaissance that lasted til this day. Seiko had, just a couple of years prior, released a new series of high-grade mechanical movement, the 4S, based on the design of the 52 Series. Up to that point, 4S calibers were only found in certain gents, sports, and dress watches. So, in the following year, the Cal 4S15 found it way into the first mid-range mechanical diver, the SCVF001 200m Diver Titanium (4S15-7000).

This watch was in production from 1995-1997, but a lot happened at Seiko during these two years. A new entry-level automatic movement replaced the 7000 Series, or rather is part of the 7000 family, but an evolution of. The movement was the now-ubiquitous Cal 7S26, along with the Date-only 7S25. In the same year, Seiko also started the development program for the new Grand Seiko Mechanical, later dubbed the 9S Series.

Seiko reallocated the 4S Series to its higher-end sub-brands, Brightz and Credor, to which the 4S still remains today. The SCVF001 Titanium was discontinued and replaced two years later by the Diver’s 200m Titanium SKX403 (1999), powered by the Cal 7S26 and manufactured for only one year.

It took another five years, during which time the Prospex line was born, until Seiko released the successor to the SKX403. This time, the movement was changed to the Date-only Cal 7S25, and that watch was the Diver’s 200m Titanium SBDA001 “Samurai Ti” (2004-2008).

Upon ending the Samurai Ti’s production in 2008, Seiko replaced it with the Diver’s 200m Titanium SBDC007 “Shogun”, which then became the current SBDC029.

The entire line had 1) Titanium case, 2) Crown at 3 o’clock, 3) The shape of the case and bezel can be traced back to the SCVF001 of 1995—the same reason for the case shape of the 6R15 Alpinist SARB017, a descendant of the 4S15 Alpinist SCVF007 of 1995 . The top of the lugs was likely influenced by those of the Samurai Ti.

Comment

Can't go wrong with any of the above.......you could perhaps look at a second hand MM300 .....

Thanks, jakem. I also thought about MM 300, at over 15 mm thick I am afraid it will be too prominent and proud on the wrist in office environment. Will keep this option open and will appreciate a comment on MM wearability.
Regards

Comment

I think you would do well to follow the advice of the senior members ...............
The entire line had 1) Titanium case, 2) Crown at 3 o’clock, 3) The shape of the case and bezel can be traced back to the SCVF001 of 1995—the same reason for the case shape of the 6R15 Alpinist SARB017, a descendant of the 4S15 Alpinist SCVF007 of 1995 . The top of the lugs was likely influenced by those of the Samurai Ti.

Thanks Don, for taking time and putting efforts in to reply in detail . It did answer my question about Shogun design, I want to buy a seiko representative watch and was unsure of shogun design. I knew this question has been asked so many times but I was looking for the answer to shogun place in seiko diver line up. Thanks again for detailed reply.