Actually, this place, in the era I participated,, and I think probably still now, was pretty creepy.

After people left for other arts, they were called "no mind" and "walking dead" and a couple other terms in a pretty cultish way.

Back then, it was called chung moo quan, but it's the same group. After the founder and his top guys went to federal prison for tax evasion, they changed the name, but once they all got out, it became clear that the behavior would be the same, crazy.

However, these guys work real hard to get little fighting ability. It's sad, really.

What a story, and "However, these guys work real hard to get little fighting ability. It's sad, really." all too true in general nowerdays...These guys seem as much a religious sect as a Mcdojo..

"Training = pain." - I said that.

PizDoff when drunk: "I'm actually MOST pissed that my target for the evening got drink...then I gave her my Bullshido Canada hoodie like a gentleman because she was outside with not much on...did I mention she barfed twice when I got our jackets...steaming barf is kinda fascinating..." - PizDoff.

" geet of your ass and do something about it besides just sitting and you're keyboard and bitching about it."

What? Twenty years of hard training is sitting on my arse? I workout everyday. I hit the gym four times a week. I do my kung fu, I do my bag work , I do my sparring, I do my conditioning , i do my cardio. I've fought longer than some of you on this board have been ALIVE.

Thats another question on my mind, how old are most of you and how long have you really trained for? BW just said he was 17, how do you now anything at that age?