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In other words, Felton is crappier than Lin at basically every single facet of the game.

Great.

Felton sucked for Portland last year. I am going to cut him some slack that his problems were because of Nate McMillan and the Blazers but he better come to camp in shape or Woody will tear him a new one.

If the Knicks' front office fails to retain Jeremy Lin, I think it's safe to say that the off-season was a huge failure.

We downgraded at the PG position (yes, Felton will be a downgrade, especially in this iso-heavy system, considering Lin is a great isolation player and Felton is not), we downgraded at the SG position, all for the sake of adding a couple veterans who, while they are good pieces, aren't enough to fix that fact that you have a huge hole in the starting lineup.

Knicks now have the worst backcourt in the NBA defensively and offensively it's bottom-tier as well. Like hell they can compete.

Like I said Idk the organization has spent millions and are deep in the Luxury tax with only a 1-7 playoff record... but hey why put any depth in the position where age has ruined the Knicks twice before... Why would the Knicks FO do that when they can have a fat PG, a 38 year old drunkard, and a 35 year old NBA rookie.

If they weren't going to keep Lin fine then they should of acted like it 100%. I mean that Nash trade was an invite to be fleeced by the suns (I am still glad it didn't go down), but jumping to Kidd next as a plan B without having Lin signed was stupid.

Thats why all we as fans can do is

Cause the knicks can't just stay out of their own way and get ahead....

Felton sucked for Portland last year. I am going to cut him some slack that his problems were because of Nate McMillan and the Blazers but he better come to camp in shape or Woody will tear him a new one.

The thing is, Felton has never been good at any of those things.

Ever.

And unlike Lin, Felton is a known commodity. We're not getting anything more out of him. We know exactly what we're going to get when he comes in and starts chucking 15 shots up with his career 41.2 FG%.

Lin has room to improve and brings a lot more to the table off the court.

And unlike Lin, Felton is a known commodity. We're not getting anything more out of him. We know exactly what we're going to get when he comes in and starts chucking 15 shots up with his career 41.2 FG%.

Lin has room to improve and brings a lot more to the table off the court.

This smells of God Damn Dolan....Not to sign LIN will be a huge mistake......
we have a shot at a PG that could really be a big part of our future....
Now we have Kidd < Felton and the Spanish dude for 3 years.....DUMB DUMB DUMB

Projecting Raymond Felton's performance and other offseason thoughts

This thread is under the assumption that the Knicks do not match Jeremy Lin and make Raymond Felton the starting PG for next season. How will he perform?

First of all, for those of you comparing Linsanity to what Felton did last year, you should throw that out the window. You can't judge him based on last year. However, at the same time, you also can't judge him on the half season he played with us, because it's a small sample size and he was under coach D'Antoni. Let's take a look at what Felton has done since 2009. We are going to look at the past 3 seasons, in order to get a good sample size. The overall conclusion that I've made is that we will most likely get a Raymond Felton from the 2009-2010 season and will least likely get the Raymond Felton from last season, and I'm ok with that.

In Charlotte, he played under Larry Brown who was as anti-D'Antoni as any coach can be. A PG's numbers actually decreased while playing for Brown, and such a thing did happen to Felton. However, note how efficient he was. He shot 45% from the field and 38% from 3. I would take that in a 12 and 6 point guard anyway. It gives us stability at the position. We aren't going to blow anyone away but we'll be set for the next 3 years assuming he keeps this up. During his tenure in Charlotte, his real value came at the defensive end (see his OWS and DWS, Offense and Defensive Win Shares). I've seen Felton (prior to this season) being constantly referred to as a bulldog. I believe that with Felton in shape and actually giving a crap about the game, expect that to be nothing more than a distant memory. Now let's look at his time with us. Of course, his defensive value decreased under D'Antoni, and offense spiked. He did turn over the ball as much as Lin did during Linsanity (around 3.5 times a game) and shot 42 and 35% from the field and 3, respectively. That's nothing to bat an eye at, but it's league average. Under Mike Woodson, Jason Kidd, and Carmelo Anthony, the key to Felton's remaining time in NY will be his tenacious defense and his efficiency on offense. Felton was our 2nd option on offense with Amar'e in that half a season. Now, he will be ~4th or 5th. He has MUCH less of a load to carry and many more options to kick it to, and don't act like he won't learn a thing or two from Hall of Famer Jason Kidd.

I'm going to stay out of talking about Lin because that situation looks like a massive clusterf*ck. At the end of the day, until the players and management come out and confirm things, all we can do is speculate, and roll with the roster they give us. Even though we got significantly older, these old players are nothing like the ones we got in years past. We aren't giving Jerome James and Jared Jeffries 5-year deals. These deals are appropriate to the window we have. We have 3-4 years to win a title, and then we'll start over again and rebuild if need be. Take a look around at this mess of a league. We just got our of a lockout where owners complained about players getting contract they don't deserve. Purely looking at what players like Nic Batum and Omir Asik have done, is it really logical to say these players deserve the money they're given? We just got out of a lockout and the owners have not learned their lesson that this is a player's league, and the National Basketball Association as a whole looks like a big freakin' joke.

IS A BACKUP 5 POINT 3 REBOUND CENTER REALLY WORTH $8 MILLION?

This is a reason why I could care less about any basketball team not named the New York Knickerbockers. This isn't like baseball where I just love the entire game so much. Anyways, back to the topic at hand, it is by no means impossible for the Knicks to pull off a solid post-season run just because one guy may not be here. Who knows, looking back, we may have all the pieces that we need right here. No one predicted that Dallas would go as far as they did 2 years ago.

This is a what have you done for me lately league Knicks still make jersey sales on Melo and STAT

What you seem to lose out on is JEREMY LIN SCREWED JEREMY LIN (vince mcmahon voice) The moment he went back to Vegas he sealed his fate he didn't want to be on the knicks so Bon Voyage wish you good luck in your future endeavors. IN NO WAY IS THIS THE KNICKS FAULT And so long as the conversation as shifted from WHEN WILL THE KING GET HIS RING to IT IS TIME CARMELO STEPS UP GET OUT OF THE FIRST ROUND AND GET HIS RING BECAUSE HE IS GETTING PASSED OVER BY HIS PEERS there will never be a shortage of story lines next year

Believe me I'm not blaming the Knicks here in the least bit. They dealt in good faith with Lin & his agent from the start, let him go set his market price & had every intention on matching that original offer sheet. & I agree I think Lin screwed himself out of marketing opps in the long run. I don't think he had any clue that the Knicks would ever blink at matching this second offer sheet, until they did. This is just a messed up situation all around & should never have come to this. I hope he's happy with his decision to milk that extra $5M on this deal. I have a feeling he will be losing out more than he's actually gaining, Linsanity in Houston is not going to be nearly the same hyped up situation as it was in NYC.

I expect about 13-14 pts & 7-8 assists for Felton, about what I would have expected out of Lin next season. Production wise I don't think we'll lose all that much, but excitement wise there's just no comparison.

Great thread StreetDreams. I believe that playing for the Blazers the year after they lost Brandon Roy and the NBA strike both contributed to Felton being flabby n sick last year.

I think he'll return to his 2010-11 form and one thing im a little happy about is while he wasnt anything spectacular defending Rondo, he did a better job then Douglas, Bibby, Billups, Davis and Lin did. And the Celtics are a team we could easily match up with if we're gonna be a 2nd round playoff team.

When Rays on a team hes content with hes the type that will go all out and give it 100%. Im happy to have him back

I expect about 13-14 pts & 7-8 assists for Felton, about what I would have expected out of Lin next season. Production wise I don't think we'll lose all that much, but excitement wise there's just no comparison.

To be fair, Linsanity was the most exciting thing our organization has seen in over a decade.

Felton did bring excitement, he brought a solid starting PG that was miles ahead of Chris Duhon, and nailed that insane game winner against the Raptors. But comparing him, or just about anything else to what Lin did in February, is unfair.

The big concern with Ray's game and its statistical reflection is his outside shooting. He'll definitely get his looks from the arc, but he's going to have to hit a solid 40% of them to make the kind of impact necessary to his and the team's success.

To be fair, Linsanity was the most exciting thing our organization has seen in over a decade.

Felton did bring excitement, he brought a solid starting PG that was miles ahead of Chris Duhon, and nailed that insane game winner against the Raptors. But comparing him, or just about anything else to what Lin did in February, is unfair.

I could care less about excitement as long as we're winning games.

Absolutely it's all about winning. If we're winning games the Knicks will quickly forget about losing Lin. But you have to admit the excitement he brought to the games, even when the initial Linsanity peak levelled off, was something we will all miss, at least in the first few weeks of the season. In the end I just hope the Knicks are better off without spending that money on Lin, & I hope for his sake that Lin is happy with the decision he made. Something tells me if he could have done things over again, he wouldn't have signed that 2nd offer sheet. But who knows what's going through his head right now. Maybe he's happy to be on a team where he'll be the #1 draw & will have free reign to do his thing again like he was doing when Melo & STAT were injured? If so then I severely misjudged the kid, I thought he was about more than that.

Absolutely it's all about winning. If we're winning games the Knicks will quickly forget about losing Lin. But you have to admit the excitement he brought to the games, even when the initial Linsanity peak levelled off, was something we will all miss, at least in the first few weeks of the season. In the end I just hope the Knicks are better off without spending that money on Lin, & I hope for his sake that Lin is happy with the decision he made. Something tells me if he could have done things over again, he wouldn't have signed that 2nd offer sheet. But who knows what's going through his head right now. Maybe he's happy to be on a team where he'll be the #1 draw & will have free reign to do his thing again like he was doing when Melo & STAT were injured? If so then I severely misjudged the kid, I thought he was about more than that.

Are there Chinese investors involved with the Rockets? Could be a factor. I know Yao Ming is still intertwined with the franchise, and has undoubtedly been in Lin's ear.

The big concern with Ray's game and its statistical reflection is his outside shooting. He'll definitely get his looks from the arc, but he's going to have to hit a solid 40% of them to make the kind of impact necessary to his and the team's success.

He'd better have a focused and well organized offseason, to be sure.

And eat some fruit Raymond, Jeeeeeeeeeeeezus.

Very good point brother...well about both his 3 point shooting and eating some fruit. Both great points, and i think having good to great perimeter shooting is very underrated. The way it can open up the paint and break down a zone defense cannot be overlooked. I think it can also really help the point guard control the tempo too if he can hit 3's

Are there Chinese investors involved with the Rockets? Could be a factor. I know Yao Ming is still intertwined with the franchise, and has undoubtedly been in Lin's ear.

Dunno about the Rockets' situation, but I do know the Knicks & Cablevision made a TON of extra money that they never would have because of Linsanity last year. They even got Time Warner to pony up the dollars to carry the MSG network again! Cablevision stock went up as well when Linsanity happened. Can't for the life of me figure out why the Knicks wouldn't match this offer, even at the increased dollars in year 3. I get the feeling this was more than simply about money for Dolan. Either that or he's just playing us all for fools right now & still plans to match the offer? We'll all find out on Tuesday, but I don't think Dolan would ever be that clever.