The mental gymnastics it takes to scam yourself like this are just STAGGERING

Thus is it with those who believe in a religion who's central figure is a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father that can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

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Organized Religion is like Organized Crime; it preys on peoples' weakness, generates huge profits for its operators, and is almost impossible to eradicate.

actually if we go up and down a little futher in John 10, we see that Jesus seems to be referring to Psalm 82 where God is calling everyone is called a "god". and this would seem to indicate that he's not exactly calling himself "divine" unless you want everyone to have the same "divineness".

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"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

The mental gymnastics it takes to scam yourself like this are just STAGGERING

Thus is it with those who believe in a religion who's central figure is a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father that can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

Your forgot about the part where the snake spoke ancient Aramaic and was really an evil goatman that lives in a lake of fire in the center of the earth.

The mental gymnastics it takes to scam yourself like this are just STAGGERING

Thus is it with those who believe in a religion who's central figure is a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father that can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

Your forgot about the part where the snake spoke ancient Aramaic and was really an evil goatman that lives in a lake of fire in the center of the earth.

If English was good enough for Jesus Christ, it's good enough for me

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Organized Religion is like Organized Crime; it preys on peoples' weakness, generates huge profits for its operators, and is almost impossible to eradicate.

17 hours ago I left this thread to go to sleep, which by God's wisdom humbles me daily with its requirements. I have since eaten, gone to class, inspected a home that my wife and I might be purchasing, gone through the market district to make a grocery trip, and gone to the library to check out a book. Shortly I will be studying for my classes for the rest of the week.

I don't understand why some of you think that I am cowardly for not having the resources to attend to this thread twenty four hours a day, but I will do my best to answer the questions with time. You should probably also be aware that I have over twenty thousand posts on this site before the new forums took effect, and am approaching ten thousand posts on another atheist website. So, though I am a proud sinner who needs God's grace constantly to be a civil person, I'm not emotionally thin skinned or ignorant of your arguments.

So, give me the same grace you give yourselves, I'll reply as I am able.

People probably would give you more credit, or get off your back etc., if you didn't rant about such things, and actually answer their questions. Those here who believe you should be here to answer them, are themselves idiots (or fools), and attribute nothing to the discussion. However, if they've asked you the question or questions while you were logged in, and you didn't answer them, then, that makes you the idiot (or Fool) and not them.

-Nam

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Quote from: David Garrett Arnold

there are oceans of words aged in prayer,against geometric lines, and cloudbeaten skies;credulous allure—slowly captivated in hearts fair—trees and flowers bloomed in grace upon one's eyes.

This is presented as a "prophesy" but it strongly suggests that Mark (or at least that section of Mark) was written after the Temple had already been destroyed. A similar controversy exists regarding the dating of the book of Daniel, with some scholars claiming that the prophesies therein were composed after the events they supposedly predict.

I've read the same on Genesis, on how Moses couldn't have written Genesis based on certain criteria that would make it improbable that he did.

-Nam

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Quote from: David Garrett Arnold

there are oceans of words aged in prayer,against geometric lines, and cloudbeaten skies;credulous allure—slowly captivated in hearts fair—trees and flowers bloomed in grace upon one's eyes.

No one stated they did. What's being stated is that people claim that the books written by those names attributed to them, were actually there. They make it "eyewitness accounts" even though it's most likely they are not. Also, they don't have to be but at least some other sources should be able to back up the story to place more validity to it, don't you think? A group of people from the same religion and/or tribe is not using other sources it just becomes hearsay, and tales.

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Historians and news reporters almost never actually witness what went on. Investigators write official reports all the time, having only done an investigation after the fact.

This is true. But most of those people doing the research try to get as many sources as they can to show the truth of it, and not just hold onto a few or just one.

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If we assume that Luke wrote the book that bears his name, there is very little claim that he was an eyewitness to any of it. What was important was that he was surrounded by people that claimed they knew Jesus, and were convinced that Jesus was the Messiah, and Son of God.

Irrelevant. I know people who've written books on fairies, and since people believe they've seen fairies, and are convinced they exist, doesn't mean they actually do. And, that goes with the claims that Jesus existed; especially based on the evidence because people were convinced he existed. That doesn't make something exist, by the by.

-Nam

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Quote from: David Garrett Arnold

there are oceans of words aged in prayer,against geometric lines, and cloudbeaten skies;credulous allure—slowly captivated in hearts fair—trees and flowers bloomed in grace upon one's eyes.

Fool, I believe jetson wants it straight from the horses' mouth, so to speak. So have you come across any scripture that directly shows Jesus making a claim of divinity? It's a simple yes or no question. If yes, then please cite the verse.

No, I don't see. Because Jesus would have rebuked someone who worshiped him, but he doesn't. He repeatedly receives worship from people, from birth to death, and then in resurrection.

As for Jesus claiming divinity, he called himself the Son of Man most often, and that was a divine title of the prophecy about God's Messiah. If you are asking if he said "I am God", no I don't think so. Only "I AM" which is the name of God. He also said that he and God are one. To Jesus there was no difference.

Philippians 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, [1] being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

So you love your god as you would love a person who wrote e-mails to you but not by name. Please tell me of your god’s intentions regarding Chinese people. I would like to know what he has in mind.

Also, how does your love of your god compare with your love of your wife or child?

God intends to save many Chinese people from themselves, and to treat all of them justly. He has grace in store for each and every one. My love for my wife doesn't compare to my love for God. Even though my wife is cool.

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You actually skirted around my questions. For instance you could not supply the name of just one person, whom you have never seen or heard from, in this world you ‘love.’

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I did not assert that all relationships are skin deep. I did ask you what sort of love you have for your god and you did not answer. You only related how some life begins when your god ‘seals’ the elect (how did they get to be elect anyway?) with something you call the holy spirit. That sounds like mumbo jumbo to me. If god promises always to be with a xtian how come xtians screw up just like everyone else?

I could go on and pick and pick at what you say but to what purpose? How can you, an intelligent person, believe in this nonsense, which is invisible to you?

If you think that the most meaningful question to ask me is if I've seen God then clearly you do think that relationships are skin deep. Right now you and I are communicating and I've never seen you. I think that a large proportion of the people I've ever interacted with I've never actually seen. Some of them you might be able to convince me were liars or not real, but that would get less likely as time went on and my relationship deepened. I think that most of the people I come to know and love without seeing them prefer to eventually exchange pictures of them in their normal surroundings, as I do also. So I can't think of anyone right now that I know and love but don't know what they look like.

It brings up a really good point though, which answers your other question. You asked me how I love God, well the love that I have for God causes me to want to see Him honored for who He is, and to be able to share everything I am with Him, and to know Him as He knows me. So in short, I want to see God's face. It is my pleasure that God has made His intentions clear regarding this matter, that now I have been reconciled and washed by His grace, so I will see His face.

God saves the elect by His own pleasure, and seems to not get very specific but His principles are clear. Everyone deserves to be repayed justly for their sins, but God chooses those who have been most humbled and oppressed in this life. In essence, if you are receiving pleasure in this life from your sins then you are not the one who is on the path of salvation. If you hate the world because of its sin and misery, and recognize that at its core it is wrong, then you are of the same mindset of the elect. God lifts up the poor, the oppressed, the broken. The scum of the world are being saved.

The Bible says that even though they are being saved that it is an ongoing process, and God delights in ongoing processes. It took him thousands of years to reveal His plan of salvation directly, and He loves turning subtle actions of grace and mercy into overwhelming floods of love. So that one man forgiving those who treat Him unjustly becomes the turning point in human history. God loves to do these things, to show that you can fight evil with good and you can make the world a better place just by loving people. So the reason, in short for why Christians still sin, is that they are in the process of conquering the patterns and habits that they and the rest of the world have collected for all this time. Instead of waving a magic wand over them and ending it, God is inviting them to be participants in redemption and to see experientially that He does all things well, reconciling all things.

I don't understand why some of you think that I am cowardly for not having the resources to attend to this thread twenty four hours a day, but I will do my best to answer the questions with time. You should probably also be aware that I have over twenty thousand posts on this site before the new forums took effect, and am approaching ten thousand posts on another atheist website. So, though I am a proud sinner who needs God's grace constantly to be a civil person, I'm not emotionally thin skinned or ignorant of your arguments.

So, give me the same grace you give yourselves, I'll reply as I am able.

Fool, I understand that you can't be on this thread 24/7. But you have responded to many other posts that were posted after mine, which was on the first page. It is now page 5, I have yet to see any indication that you even intend on replying to my post.

I have a question. Christians maintain the belief that Jesus' life, death, and resurrection was the key to God's forgiveness of human sin and salvation. Why, exactly, did these events have to occur in order for God to forgive humans of anything? What is the relevance of:a) the life, death, and resurrection of a divine entity manifested in the flesh (Jesus), to

b) A God's his attitude towards human sin.

'Cause honestly, I see absolutely no causal relevance of a) to b). If God wanted to forgive humans, why didn't he just do it, why were the events described in a) a prerequisite to forgiveness?

Sorry I missed your post before.

It's a good question. You might be surprised at the answer.

The Bible says that the cross was a demonstration(of God's righteousness). He was revealing the situation as it truly was since long before the crucifixion. God had been forgiving peoples sins and treating them graciously for all time, and had created the world well aware of the suffering that would be caused by his creatures acting disobediently. Since God knows all things, He is intimately aware of the suffering of every man woman and child who ever came into existence. So when Jesus went to the cross, it was to SHOW people the character of God. It was to REVEAL that God was humble and lowly in heart, and that He cared for us and has always cared for us. It was to PROVE that God had not abandoned His people, or failed in His promise.

The revelation of Jesus is the model for God's plan, except that we are all heirs by grace, and Jesus displayed God's perfect righteousness in the flesh by works. So Jesus died in the flesh and was raised again, I die to the flesh and am raised again. As Jesus was glorified and lives eternally I will be glorified and live eternally.

Well, since Jesus was not mute, he was able to talk to people about his experiences easily. You might have had him confused with Moses, or one of the demonaics.

Who recorded those conversations since not a single word of the New Testament was written in the presence of Jesus?

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Quote from: kenn

You want to understand God and the world around you through science and logic alone and, because you cannot come up with a "reasonable" explanation for what they ate when leaving the ark, you dismiss it.

If there was a christian god why would he need to have us have to do so much. I mean if he knew what would have happened to Adam and Eve and didn't stop or change it. Then it isn't worth worshipping it.

God had been forgiving peoples sins and treating them graciously for all time, ...

No he hasn't, actually. The deity to which you refer did not exist in the human lexicon or consciousness until the ancient Jews invented that deity. Many cultures and tens of thousands of years of human existence passed into history before the Israelites' notion of their deity was written down and formalized.

The God of Abraham is nothing more than one of thousands of deities humans have believed in. If the God of Abraham has always existed, he certainly masked his existence to a great many humans and robbed them of his supposed grace.

My love for my wife doesn't compare to my love for God. Even though my wife is cool.

This has to be without a doubt, the most scary, creepy, goosetingling things that an xitan can say. To put an imaginary being before family that is real and tangible is absolutely a mind boggling reality for these people. And the more frightening thing is that they are taught to believe this philosophy and foolish hierarchy for obvious cult-like reasons.

It's sad. These people all come in this forum and sound exactly the same when they speak. Like robots for an imaginary god. Like god software has been installed in their brain like a virus keeping vital system programs running. Reality and reason is quickly discarded in favor of superstition and intangible faith.

And their all programmed to put this before their wife, husband, kids, friends, etc.. How do they not see a giant red flag here?

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Hguols: "Its easier for me to believe that a God created everything...."

Who recorded those conversations since not a single word of the New Testament was written in the presence of Jesus?

Well I've got no reason to believe that not a single word was written in His presence, but I think that Luke penned Luke, John penned John, Matthew probably penned Matthew, and a guy named John Mark probably penned Mark.

This has to be without a doubt, the most scary, creepy, goosetingling things that an xitan can say. To put an imaginary being before family that is real and tangible is absolutely a mind boggling reality for these people. And the more frightening thing is that they are taught to believe this philosophy and foolish hierarchy for obvious cult-like reasons.

It's sad. These people all come in this forum and sound exactly the same when they speak. Like robots for an imaginary god. Like god software has been installed in their brain like a virus keeping vital system programs running. Reality and reason is quickly discarded in favor of superstition and intangible faith.

And their all programmed to put this before their wife, husband, kids, friends, etc.. How do they not see a giant red flag here?

Pontificating on the reasons for my behavior in a purposeless universe is just as creepy as anything I've said on my wildest day.