Comments on: Pope to pro-choice pols: How does excommunication grab you?http://hotair.com/archives/2007/05/09/pope-to-pro-choice-pols-how-does-excommunication-grab-you/
The world’s first, full-service conservative Internet broadcast networkMon, 03 Aug 2015 01:02:09 +0000hourly1http://wordpress.org/?v=4.1.5By: Hot Air » Blog Archive » Video: Chris Matthews talks over Catholic bishop for four and a half minuteshttp://hotair.com/archives/2007/05/09/pope-to-pro-choice-pols-how-does-excommunication-grab-you/comment-page-1/#comment-2990345
Wed, 25 Nov 2009 23:49:40 +0000http://hotair.com/archives/2007/05/09/pope-to-pro-choice-pols-how-does-excommunication-grab-you/#comment-2990345[…] background for the discussion, the Pope’s flirted (and un-flirted) over the last few years with excommunication for Catholic legislators who betray […]
]]>By: Hot Air » Blog Archive » Vatican quietly alters transcript of Pope’s remarks on pro-choice polshttp://hotair.com/archives/2007/05/09/pope-to-pro-choice-pols-how-does-excommunication-grab-you/comment-page-1/#comment-396865
Fri, 11 May 2007 13:13:58 +0000http://hotair.com/archives/2007/05/09/pope-to-pro-choice-pols-how-does-excommunication-grab-you/#comment-396865[…] His apparent endorsement of excommunication kicked up way too much of a fuss, especially in Mexico, so they went back in after the fact and cut a few words to make it slightly more ambiguous. If the White House tried that, they’d be pilloried; if I tried that with one of my posts, I’d be pilloried. Just like Greg Mitchell was when he (allegedly) did the same thing. […]
]]>By: natesnakehttp://hotair.com/archives/2007/05/09/pope-to-pro-choice-pols-how-does-excommunication-grab-you/comment-page-1/#comment-395991
Thu, 10 May 2007 16:53:22 +0000http://hotair.com/archives/2007/05/09/pope-to-pro-choice-pols-how-does-excommunication-grab-you/#comment-395991

What do you think they’re doing for the Catholic politicians who are manifestly in error over abortion?

You’re referring to intent. Intent is irrelevant to my point, which is that this will only fuel anti-Catholicism. It’s already started. Did you see that “column” about how the SCOTUS voted the way they did on the partial birth abortion law because the Pope told them to?

Sydney, I’ve been more than cordial with you. I gave a clear argument that didn’t explore name-calling. Gloves off.

You are an itellectually dishonest harping wingbat. You support capitol punishment; great. But when it comes to the Church, there is a huge difference between “supporting” capitol punishment and tolerating it “if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.” It is not the only possible way. Option #2 is life in prison.

This is an itellectual argument so it may be over your head.

Lastly, you can take your bile, revenge, and hatred; wad it up in a tight little ball; and shove it up your a$$.

natesnake on May 10, 2007 at 8:36 AM

natesnake: It’s a far, far better thing you do than you have ever done.

]]>By: natesnakehttp://hotair.com/archives/2007/05/09/pope-to-pro-choice-pols-how-does-excommunication-grab-you/comment-page-1/#comment-395702
Thu, 10 May 2007 12:36:41 +0000http://hotair.com/archives/2007/05/09/pope-to-pro-choice-pols-how-does-excommunication-grab-you/#comment-395702Sydney, I’ve been more than cordial with you. I gave a clear argument that didn’t explore name-calling. Gloves off.

You are an itellectually dishonest harping wingbat. You support capitol punishment; great. But when it comes to the Church, there is a huge difference between “supporting” capitol punishment and tolerating it “if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.” It is not the only possible way. Option #2 is life in prison.

This is an itellectual argument so it may be over your head.

Lastly, you can take your bile, revenge, and hatred; wad it up in a tight little ball; and shove it up your a$$.

Right because we all know Jesus only accepted the perfect, 100% followers, who had never committed sins, or disobeyed the church – oh, wait. He accepted tramps, prostitutes, etc.

They repented.

Does the Pope have a right to dictate my religion to me? Yep. My politics? No. Great thing about America – separation between church and state. You know who else thinks their religious leaders have the right to dictate to their politicians, and interfere with politics? Muslims. You’d all be fine with an Imam dictating what one of our politicians does and believes, right?

Don’t be ridiculous. The Pope has no political authority. The separation between Church and State? What insitution of the US government (or any other government) is the Pope currently in charge of? Gee, maybe we small government types should votes for an administration that will cut off federal funding to the Vatican. It’s bad enough that the Democrats increase spending on welfare but that recent $18 million subsidy to the Catholic Church really crosses the line.

Wake up amerpundit. The Pope exercises a moral authority. He inspires and enrages millions of people because of it. You haven’t the slightest obligation to pay attention to anything he says. If you and I are allowed to give our opinions on politics then why isn’t he?

This is a political statement. He didn’t say: “To all Catholics, if you want to be pro-choice, then you can’t stay in the church.” He went for, and addressed politicians.

He didn’t go for and address politicians. He was asked a question and answered truthfully. Let me refresh your memory:

The Pope was asked whether he supported Mexican Church leaders threatening to excommunicate leftist parliamentarians who last month voted to legalize abortion in Mexico City. “Yes, this excommunication was not an arbitrary one but is allowed by Canon (church) law which says that the killing of an innocent child is incompatible with receiving communion, which is receiving the body of Christ,” he said.

The Pope isn’t Bill Clinton. He can’t, and would not and should not, weasel his way out of simple questions. The fact that the Pope is Catholic seems to be very surprising to you. A Pope who upholds Catholic doctrine? Say it isn’t so!

]]>By: Freelancerhttp://hotair.com/archives/2007/05/09/pope-to-pro-choice-pols-how-does-excommunication-grab-you/comment-page-1/#comment-395433
Thu, 10 May 2007 01:40:20 +0000http://hotair.com/archives/2007/05/09/pope-to-pro-choice-pols-how-does-excommunication-grab-you/#comment-395433Mahoney is guilty of a great many things. Working the dodge to keep pedophile priests out of trouble is certainly among the worst. Playing legal games to avoid complying with warrants, destroying records, etc., all to what end? Protecting the criminals, and ignoring the innocent victims.

I don’t know how all that squares with his “flock”, made up more and more of illegal mexican immigrants, most of whom have very strong family values. Mahoney doesn’t care, as long as they can keep coming, his coffers can keep getting more and more full.

]]>By: E. M.http://hotair.com/archives/2007/05/09/pope-to-pro-choice-pols-how-does-excommunication-grab-you/comment-page-1/#comment-395317
Wed, 09 May 2007 23:09:43 +0000http://hotair.com/archives/2007/05/09/pope-to-pro-choice-pols-how-does-excommunication-grab-you/#comment-395317Actually, the Pope had some harsh words for Cardinal Mahoney, who is a Liberation Theology guy. Mahoney isn’t in line with the Church, and he’s superseded by the Pope.
]]>By: Catie96706http://hotair.com/archives/2007/05/09/pope-to-pro-choice-pols-how-does-excommunication-grab-you/comment-page-1/#comment-395279
Wed, 09 May 2007 22:35:36 +0000http://hotair.com/archives/2007/05/09/pope-to-pro-choice-pols-how-does-excommunication-grab-you/#comment-395279Okay, regarding the ex-communication for women in the church who have an abortion. They have this “Project Rachel” which is designed to ask for forgiveness, reflect on the terrible deed, and to offer the forgiveness of the Church. Depending on the Diocese sometimes there even is a special Mass once or twice a year for those who have had an abortion. In fact, last night here in Augusta there was one of those Masses and it was open to not only the women but the men who also participated in one way or another with abortion and no issues were made as to why you may have been there. I would know, because as I told you all last year that is something I live with everyday and will for the rest of my life.
As for the Cardinal, well as others have said, he’s got to be kidding me. I cannot find where in Church doctrine that said that we must let all the illegals come in regardless of the laws that they’re breaking. This sort of garbage makes me sick.
As for Pelosi, Kennedy, Rudy, et. al. they have to live with their own conscience. Perhaps they don’t have one of those but maybe they do. Although, I have to wonder.
I remember when Tim Kaine was elected Gov. of VA & he said that his faith wouldn’t interfere with the carrying out of the death penalty. However, shortly after he took office he stayed the execution of some killer. I will be honest and I cannot tell you if anyone has been executed since he took office. It would be interesting if anyone knows.
As for the death penalty, as far as I’m concerned take them to Gitmo and never let them have contact with their family, television and have them make little rocks out of big ones. Their families should not have the opportunity to visit them just as the families of their victims cannot sit and conversate with their loved ones anymore either thanks to the criminal.
Sorry for the rambling.
]]>By: Sydney Cartonhttp://hotair.com/archives/2007/05/09/pope-to-pro-choice-pols-how-does-excommunication-grab-you/comment-page-1/#comment-395250
Wed, 09 May 2007 21:56:21 +0000http://hotair.com/archives/2007/05/09/pope-to-pro-choice-pols-how-does-excommunication-grab-you/#comment-395250

“The Catholic church does not support Capitol Punishment. “

That is a flat-out, 100% pure lie. You are lying. Stop. I just quoted a section of the Catechism of the Catholic Church which says the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty.

Your persistant defiance of this teaching is just as bad as those Catholic politicians who persist in supporting abortion. It’s one thing to think that most, if not all, criminals should avoid execution. But you are LYING ABOUT THE CHURCH’S TEACHING ON THE DEATH PENALTY.

This week the head of the Los Angeles Archdiocese, Cardinal Roger Mahoney, basically threatened his faithful with denial of heaven if they don’t support amnesty for illegal aliens….

Guess he forgot about that little something in the bible about honoring your government and following their dictates. Just a little oversight, a few words in the bible that can be ignored…no big deal, the Cardinal can choose what part of the bible to adhere to, he is a Cardinal…not some ordinary man, he is special, he can ignore God’s words.

]]>By: Iblishttp://hotair.com/archives/2007/05/09/pope-to-pro-choice-pols-how-does-excommunication-grab-you/comment-page-1/#comment-395230
Wed, 09 May 2007 21:43:48 +0000http://hotair.com/archives/2007/05/09/pope-to-pro-choice-pols-how-does-excommunication-grab-you/#comment-395230People seem to forget that an organization that has lasted 2000 years doesn’t get there by being inflexible and unresponsive. The Church acts on a much longer timescale than the next election cycle.
]]>By: colorfulbeachpersonahttp://hotair.com/archives/2007/05/09/pope-to-pro-choice-pols-how-does-excommunication-grab-you/comment-page-1/#comment-395208
Wed, 09 May 2007 21:24:13 +0000http://hotair.com/archives/2007/05/09/pope-to-pro-choice-pols-how-does-excommunication-grab-you/#comment-395208Here-in can be found the basic problem with all lefty positions; “I want to be a member of the _ _ _ _ _ ( fill in the blank: church, nation, club, organization, whatever you choose) but I don’t want to follow any of the rules, regulations, laws, beliefs, guidelines or doctrines that I personally don’t like. However do not have the audacity to say I am not a member in good standing, patriot, loyal member, merely because I choose to follow certain rules , and ignore the ones I disagree with. Only a liberal has the twisted sort of logic that says I can ignore all the rules and still demand entrance or claim membership in the club, its called inverting reality
CBP

…the will of the masses is divided by far-reaching distortions and the mass mind is corrupted by a knowledge worse than ignorance because it is false.
Ely Culbertson

. . .the “anti-war” crowd (and I’m afraid this Pope may be with them regarding the war)

Halley

Here’s a little exercise for all those who thing that JPII or BXVI were against us overthrowing Saddam Hussein: Show me a quote from either of them. JPII did say that when man resorted to war all mankind loses but he also acknowledged the unfortunate necessity of war at times. He never, to my knowledge, specifically criticized Bush or the US and actually removed any Vatican spokesman who did.

Ole Rudy has had a public life for decades and has persistently been pro-abortion. This is not new as you seem to imply.

I think Rudy’s learning to follow the ways of the church, as he’s moved towards being more pro-life. I just don’t think he’s opposed to the teachings, but he’s moving towards them. He’s learning.

amerpundit

As you said, the Pope was not addressing any particular politician much less Rudy. However, Rudy is still unapologetically pro-abortion. He may be trying to hone a more palatable message than his “Get over it” line. But he is still for unlimited abortion (including partial birth abortion).

Here’s a twist: Almost every Catholic GOP politician could be excommunicated for support of Capitol Punishment.

natesnake

Not true. The Catholic Church’s teaching on capital punishment is that it is morally licit but should be used sparingly. Pope John Paul II was notably against the death penalty in societies that had the ability to remove dangerous people by imprisonment. He, however, was always clear that this was his personal opinion and it did not constitute a teaching of the Church. You can disagree with the Pope on this issue and still be in union with the Church.

]]>By: natesnakehttp://hotair.com/archives/2007/05/09/pope-to-pro-choice-pols-how-does-excommunication-grab-you/comment-page-1/#comment-395177
Wed, 09 May 2007 21:05:48 +0000http://hotair.com/archives/2007/05/09/pope-to-pro-choice-pols-how-does-excommunication-grab-you/#comment-395177I missquoted a statistic. There were only 54 executions in 2006. There was 114 death sentences handed down in 2006.

The Catholic church does not support Capitol Punishment. I remember this being a sticking point with John Paul II. The Church supports “preservation of all life” which includes opposition to abortion, the death penalty, and euthenasia.

I’m not here to change your mind, just to give some statistics. I’m Catholic and try my best (and it’s a bitch sometimes) to faithfully follow all the cannons of the Church.

No. Unless you see no problem being locked up with a serial killer. Go ahead. You can be his roommate.

If memory serves correct, the most heinous offenders have their own cells. Tim McVeigh had his own cell just a few doors down from the Unibomber.

Bottom line, we have millions of people in prison. We only execute hundreds (114 in 2006) of them a year. The appeals process is long, ineffective, and costly. From a financial standpoint, we’d save money not executing them.

I wonder how he feels about catholic Marines who have killed in combat.

The Catholic Church is fine with Marines.

2265. Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others. The defense of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm. For this reason, those who legitimately hold authority also have the right to use arms to repel aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their responsibility.

Our Constitution protects religion from the intrusion or coercion of the state. But we have precious little protection against the political adventurism of all manner of churches and religious organizations.

As much as I personally believe that separation of Church and state has encouraged Americans to attend Church and allowed the US to become greater than if the Church ruled the state, this is actually true, the Church is protected from the state but not necessarily the state from the Church.

Reading the Lou Dobbs article made me want to ask is there different levels of heaven and hell?

Maybe it’s possible to say to someone, that’s not hell enough for you, seems not that much different from saying he’s not Christian enough.