Re: The REAL facts about Marc Bulger, and one opinion

I'm not concerned about what he did 5 years ago, I'm not concerned about excuses for what the offensive line might have been, what are the facts right now that prove Bulger is at least average as a starting QB in the NFL?

Well, as has been stated, there's no way to assess a QB while ignoring the Line in front of him. It's like saying the world famous NASCAR driver, Jimbo Billy Bob Stonewall Jackson, Jr, sucks and I don't want to hear about his pit crew that put the tires on backwards, and filled his gas tank with water, and replaced his motor oil with kool-aid. Maybe ol' JBBSJ, Jr. does suck or maybe he doesn't........but you have to factor in that pit crew to know.

Having said all that, just to play devil's advocate, you may not be concerned with what Bulger did 5 years ago. Me neither. That's a lifetime ago! Then why should we care about the previous two years? If it's the recent past that is our best indicator of future performance (a different debate topic itself), then why are looking back 32 games? If we look at his last 4 games, he's actually been quite good.

I guess my point is where we draw the magically line of a meaningful timeline is subjective enough to give every corner of this debate the perspective that they are right.

"Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

Re: The REAL facts about Marc Bulger, and one opinion

Any assessment of the offensive line is mostly opinion is it not? Or do we have facts to determine exactly how poorly they played and how those facts have been addressed in the offseason?

If we are going to require only facts when determining how poorly Bugler is, shouldn't we require only facts when determining how great he might return to being?

As was my point also in the discussion, we can blame the offensive line for many things but it is the opinion of a former pro-bowl DT who is a friend of the QB that he contributes to the offensive line looking bad. Now that's an opinion and not fact but I give that more weight than most opinions.

Re: The REAL facts about Marc Bulger, and one opinion

Any assessment of the offensive line is mostly opinion is it not?

Every assessment of every position is an opinion. Hopefully, those assessments are based on facts only, but the assessment itself will always be an opinion. It may be an opinion held so tightly that we see it as fact, but an opinion still the same.

we can blame the offensive line for many things but it is the opinion of a former pro-bowl DT who is a friend of the QB that he contributes to the offensive line looking bad. Now that's an opinion and not fact but I give that more weight than most opinions.

And it's an opinion that should be given weight. He would certainly know better than us. And if the argument you're making is that Bulger doesn't like to take a hit, then I don't know that anyone is arguing against it. He's gun shy, or at least looked it during the Jets game. However, without a blitzer in his face, he looked outstanding the other night.

"Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

Re: The REAL facts about Marc Bulger, and one opinion

Then we are in agreement.

I've always held up for Bulger because I think he's probably a great guy, he performed exceptionally well for a long time and was a difference maker. There is a point where players decline in physical and mental ability. I think Marc is there. When a guy like Farr says he can get the job done if everything else is perfect, well this team is NOT perfect. I would run Marc out there this year as Spags is doing but I would also have him on a very short leash and be prepared to build for 2010 without him. If this team is 2-6 half way through the season, Marc would NOT be my QB in week 9.

Re: The REAL facts about Marc Bulger, and one opinion

If this team is 2-6 half way through the season, Marc would NOT be my QB in week 9.

I believe we are in agreement, but I would have more qualifiers than just the record. If the team is 2-6, and Bulger is not making the passes he should, then it might be time for Boller. However, if this team is 2-6, and Jackson is ineffective, and the defense gives up mega-points, then maybe a switch at QB is needed, or maybe it's not.

There's just too many variables (IMO) to make the record the sole if/then factor.

"Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

Re: The REAL facts about Marc Bulger, and one opinion

The Rams front office showed this offseason they are more interested in 2010 and beyond than winning this year. They voluntarily paid Bennett, Holt, Pace, Pisa and Leonard millions each to just go away to get them off the books for 2010. That is screaming in your face that they have a plan they are executing. I seriously doubt Bulger is in that plan unless he is in 2006 form. Just being slightly better isn't going to cut it.

Re: The REAL facts about Marc Bulger, and one opinion

Originally Posted by RebelYell

The Rams front office showed this offseason they are more interested in 2010 and beyond than winning this year. They voluntarily paid Bennett, Holt, Pace, Pisa and Leonard millions each to just go away to get them off the books for 2010. That is screaming in your face that they have a plan they are executing. I seriously doubt Bulger is in that plan unless he is in 2006 form. Just being slightly better isn't going to cut it.

That may be so. But I wonder, if they were willing to sacrifice 2009 at the altar of 2010/beyond, then why not grab a future QB this year?

"Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

Re: The REAL facts about Marc Bulger, and one opinion

I think one of Bulgers biggest things is that he is not a leader. Plunkett(PATS)Archie Manning (Saints), Brodie(Niners) Even ELI (GIANTS)are just a few of the QB's who were on Crap teams but made things happen. They were leaders of a ship going down, Bulger may already be on the life raft. But the next two weeks should be interesting, Bulger will be out for 2 games if I read right and Kyle will get a chance to run the show. Bollier wasn't that bad coming out of college , he was just put on team that didn't really need a qb. Since then it has changed in Raven country. They need an offense to even up with the aging defense . Flaco is fresh blood, so Kyle is out the door. he looked pretty good last week and this could be his time to shine. At thei Point Bulger is the best we have ,but the beast could be unleashed in the next two weeks. The best at the sot is all I want. Whomever it may be.And no, you can't say Bulger sucks , But he hasen't done much to boost his credibility.

Re: The REAL facts about Marc Bulger, and one opinion

What is with people who say Bulger is not a leader? What bit of credible evidence do you have pointing towards this? Have players said this about him? Coaches? Is it because he's not vocal enough? I don't remember Joe Montana running around yelling at his teammates, or Steve Young for that matter. Troy Aikman? Nope. The list goes on and on. Bulger is a less-vocal, more-tough guy. He's proven in the past he can put the team on his back and carry them (17 comebacks, 13th all-time). However, he has to stay upright to do so, and has to have more playmakers around him, either offensively, or on the defensive side of the ball ...

Whether or not Bulger is a good guy has little to do with my opinion of him as a quarterback. I have no reason to believe whether is an upstanding citizen or not. If he was a Michael Vick type, or like T.O. persay, I might have less patience for him, but as long as he's not out causing trouble, it really doesn't go much past that for me ...

How would QB's like Chad Pennington or Jeff Garcia be viewed if they ever played on a really solid football team that had championship credentials? Trent Dilfer has won a Super Bowl, you don't have to have a world beater at QB to do so. So, with the numbers that Pennington and Garcia have, if either or them would have had their teams in contention year in and year out, or if either have won a Super Bowl, they'd be viewed at a much more elite level than they currently are. Instead, they have Marinoitis Tarkententitis, because no matter what kind of numbers they put up in their career, they are just not going to match up. This, despite the fact, that they put up good to great numbers year in and year out ...

As for Big Ben, the debate with him gets old. The situations are not even remotely the same. First of all, look at the defense they field in Pitt. Ben can take alot more chances than Bulger can, simply because of that. As for the offensive line in Pittsburgh, I've heard it called one of the worst ever. However, when I watch Ben play, I see a QB that is constantly trying to fire the ball down field. I also see a QB that holds the ball way too long, a QB that is willing to take chances, one who has playmakers around him. In that regard, is the line really that bad, or is it the case of a QB who holds the ball just a split second longer than most, and is willing to take a sack here and there in exchange for possibility of making a huge play?

Re: The REAL facts about Marc Bulger, and one opinion

so ramsinfiniti if you watched most pitts games, than you might have noticed that he doesn't get sacked just standing there holding the ball very often. He feels the pressure as the say and scrambles. When mark takes a sack, its like he doesn't even know that the blitz was coming, There is your difference

Good/great QB learn to move in the pocket to help out his o-line he does not move.
you want to see how a great Qb moves in the pocket to avoid sacks watch dan marino. Maybe bulger should

Re: The REAL facts about Marc Bulger, and one opinion

I think one of Bulgers biggest things is that he is not a leader.

One piece of supporting evidence. Just one.

"Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

Re: The REAL facts about Marc Bulger, and one opinion

As to the fact why we didnt go after a QB this year plain and simple we needed a O-lineman. That was the most important thing needed at that time

But if the organization is looking past this year, then why not get the QB of the future now? Why get a OT to simply protect a QB on his way out?

"Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod