You have all been duped (A Williams and Demps Tale)

Ok, so the 10 game experiment that I was looking forward to with Marcus Thornton has come and gone. I gave Marcus 10 games as a King to see if last year really was his ceiling and if his game had really devolved since his rookie season. I know 10 games isn’t exactly a ton of time, but the offensive prowess that Marcus Thornton has exhibited since then is just downright nasty. Guess what folks? He is who we thought he was and possibly better.

22 PPG

49% from the field

44.7% from beyond the arc

1.9 steals to 1.5 TO’s

I’ll tell you what. This kid is the main reason I opted to upgrade from half season tickets last year to full season tickets this year. His energy coupled with his being from our hometown school of LSU (yes, hometown, if you don’t think NOLA is an LSU town you are crazy) provided a young asset that we had not seen since the likes of Chris Paul. The fact that we found this guy in the 2nd round and robbed him from a Miami Heat team that is competing for a title right now makes it all the more savory. Rookie SG’s are not typically successful in their rookie years in the league and for this kid to be making an impact so fast left us with hope we hadn’t felt since 2007-08. “Holy crap, Chris Paul finally has his backcourt mate.”

Not so fast!

The young duo of Chris Paul and Marcus Thornton that posted ridiculous offensive effiency numbers as a starting unit last year was in serious jeopardy due to Monty Williams reluctance to hand Marcus the starting job. We were then told that our newest hope was going to be relegated to the 6th man duties for his new team because Marco Belinelli and his uber-fantastic defense (which, by the way, has been considered bottom 5 in the league defense by Synergy Sports at points this year, along with the fact that the team’s defensive efficiency numbers *cough Nikko* were better with Thornton on the court) were going to supplant Thornton in that starting 5. Ok, at this point, we are starting to wonder what is going on. Belinelli couldn’t even crack consistent minutes on a bad Toronto team and now he’s supplanted Thornton? No matter. Visions of Jason Terry were dancing in our head. AN ACTUAL BENCH!! Belinelli can shoot from downtown after all. Monty assured Marcus “it’s not who starts, it’s who finishes” and the world goes round.

Marcus endures a tough preseason at the hands of the Monty Williams’ coaching staff and refuses to attend a “voluntary seminar”.

Game 1 – 11 minutes. Monty must be teaching him a lesson. Play defense or else.

Game 3 – 30 minutes in a huge win against SAS. Ok, that’s what I’m talking about folks!

Game 25 – Marcus Thornton comes off the bench for his most meaningful game of the season, leading the Hornets to their largest come from behind victory in franchise history. The crowd is bananas. Marcus is going bananas. Chris Paul is talking about Marcus like he’s a beast. Monty Williams says he’s happy for him. Alas, may the feud be over?

Game 26 – Breakthrough! Back to back successful games from MT5. The crowd’s going nuts. The city is abuzz. The favored son is back in business. Surely Monty Williams must see the value in having someone who can light that offensive flame at the drop of a hat, especially when the defense of his wings has gotten severely worse over the last 15 games!

Games 38-47 – Hornets go on a massive winning streak. The team is playing it’s best ball of the season. Marcus Thornton is getting playing time. Jarrett Jack doesn’t look completely awful. Things are looking up. Finally. The full potential of this team.

Games 48-54 – After 1 good and 2 subpar games, Marcus Thornton has fallen back out of the rotation, again…, Jarrett Jack and Willie Green are sharing the majority of the 2 guard minutes. We go 1-6 in this timeframe. MT5 bobblehead night is cancelled. Panic is starting to seep into the masses. Uh oh time. This was the first telltale sign.

Game 55 – DNP.

Game 59 – He’s gone.

Game 60-69 – KABOOM GOES THE DYNAMITE

The chronological order of this season. 2 things are blatantly obvious to me by game 58 right before the trade. 1) Monty Williams will never give Marcus Thornton consistent minutes 2) Jarrett Jack is the worst defender on our team, getting SG minutes ahead of Thornton, while complaining about playing time. The logic for giving minutes to players applies really only to Marcus Thornton and Aaron Gray.

Now for some reason, throughout all of this, the fans are vehemently defending then CoTY candidate Monty Williams. After all, we are playing defense most nights and Thornton not playing must be the cause to that effect.

I’m here to tell you that you have ALL BEEN DUPED (myself included until now) by a coach that you will defend to your dying breath. Ending at the Collison trade, with no real bench except for what we had last year, we had a 39-30 team EASY. Chris Paul had been able to carry much crappier players than Thornton and Ariza (Devin Brown, Morris Peterson, Rasual Butler) to better records than we are seeing out of these current Hornets. Much less the fact that Okafor has had a full year to gel with the team and David West is in a contract year so of course he is going to give effort.

This heinous crime was committed with no regard for the fans of New Orleans. The Hornets have sent out the best prospect they’ve had since Chris Paul for a THREE MONTH FRICKING RENTAL.Don’t tell me that Collison and Thornton weren’t worth a living crap. They brought a bad team that didn’t give a crap early to a 37-45 record. Look at GS and all the talent they have. They probably won’t even win 37 fricking games this year. Not to mention the fact that Chris Paul came back WAAAYYY to early from his injury and essentially buried our playoffs hope single handedly. These kids were winners of the highest caliber. Advanced stats bullcrap all you want. I look in cold hard wins and these two won us more games than they should have on pure effort and talent alone.

WHY ARE WE NOT BEYOND LIVID AT THIS POINT? THEY ARE BOTH GONE! The only bright future we have had on this team in the past 6 years was given away. Houston didn’t even care about Ariza. They wanted his salary gone. We got rid of Posey. I’ll forgive that trade as it may have turned out equal if things had turned out the way they should have. We never ONCE this season got to see Marcus Thornton given the vote of confidence he shouldn’t have been denied in the first place. We all look at JR Smith, Brandon Bass, etc. of the world as terrible development from Byron Scott. The difference between Marcus Thornton and those players? MARCUS WAS ALREADY THERE! He just needed fine tuning. Instead, Monty acted like a confused moron and dug himself a hole he couldn’t get out of in the locker room. The cancerous infestation of the Jarrett Jack’s of the world was already working it’s magic. Marcus never had a chance.

The top level of our organization has no direction and no backbone. This much is clear. The Hornets traded away their fan favorite, ticket selling, confident, YOUNG, passionate machine for a 3 month rental. And we defend Monty Williams. Hell, I’ve defended Monty Williams. After last night. I have seen enough.

He is who we thought he is. He wanted to be here more than anyone on our current roster. His on court passion gave back to the fans their value. That was always the value in Darren Collison and Marcus Thornton last year. No matter what happened that night, you KNEW that those two were going to go to bat for your team. In the best way they knew how. If it wasn’t enough. It wasn’t enough. Don’t blame them for not trying.

Now I’m sitting here typing this journal, wondering why in the hell both of those 2 are gone with very little to show for it, seeing Marcus Thornton raise his stock in 10 games more than he did all of last year. I’m stuck watching lackluster performances from our 2 guards last night and Felton, Smith, Lawson bent them over and made them their puppy dog bitches. I’m stuck watching Jarrett Jack still play the 2 guard when Belinelli should be getting 30+ minutes a game. I don’t believe in advanced stats. Sorry. Belinelli is a tough ass, in your face, defender and I apologize for saying he was otherwise. Never blame him for not trying. He’s the last vestige of mental toughness we have left on this team after the gaping hole was left by the departure of Marcus Thornton. When the going gets tough, the Hornets play Jack and watch the tough get tougher. AGHHH! I only wish I had tried harder to keep Thornton here. To not try to see the other side. The other side sucks. Ask Sacramento. They’re cackling with glee right now, making fun of us as they parade around acting like they got a steal.

Speaking of steals.

Don’t even get me started on Chris Paul.

This mess is so long that I will not proofread it. My anger will not subside. The 10 game trial is over. The Hornets got robbed. They even paid Sacramento to take Thornton. LOL.

If you don’t want to read about Thornton then just ignore the article, there’s plenty of Hornets fans that do want to read and discuss this.

No matter which way you twist it or turn it, the fact is that Marcus never got a chance to show what he’s good for. That’s all on Monty, it’s his fault, and he should be held accountable for it. I like Landry, and the jury is still out on whether it was a good trade, but if the Hornets lose in the first round of the playoffs because of their inability to score I will not be a happy camper…

Love the passion. I wish it was for something positive the Hornets did, but I completely understand your point and in some ways I am starting to come over to your side of thinking in one way. As I look out at the league, I am realizing that the chances of the Hornets winning a title anytime soon is pretty slim. Based on that, why not just market the hell out of a guy who could sell tickets, even if he doesn’t really produce wins?

I live in Jacksonville, and they had a chance to draft Tim Tebow. They weren’t winning a title with him and they ain’t winning one without him, so why not draft the guy who can create hundreds of millions of dollars of revenue?

I will be very curious to see what kind of contract Thornton gets this summer. I look at guys like him and Nick Young and think that a bad team will throw big money at them. We’ll see.

When the Hornets start playing with the intensity displayed at the beginning of the season, I’ll have something positive to say. Can’t excuse crappy effort from a team that makes a living on playing harder than the other team.

Why I single out Beli, cause he seems like he shows up to play every night, regardless of whether the shot is dropping. He looks like a different man since the trade. He’s *shockingly* losing way to much time at the SG position to WG and JJ.

I agree regarding Beli. Guys a true battler and gives it his all. You never know, if Marcus had done so on the defensive end he mighta been in creole blue still

Just A Fan

March 16, 2011 at 11:46 am

Great article I am also dumbfounded as to why an organization that is struggling to maintain a fan base trades away all of their best young talent. Like it or not Marcus was a ticket seller. He is an exciting player who plays with his heart. Nobody said he was the greatest defender but who on this team is. We have no offensive spark at all. Marcus has led comebacks of monumental proportions while the rest of the guards on the bench watched him do it. This happened after he was the last player off the bench and yet he didn’t care. He just wanted to win. Who on this team has that kind of passion and will power on this team now. I took part in the I’m in campaign, I’m just wondering “What” am I in for.

Me too. “I’m In” for what? Constantly shipping out players for others? Am I advocating that chemistry doesn’t matter and that we should trade for a whole new team next season? At this point, sure, let’s get some players that are here to stay and build a foundation.

I posted a few months back that I thought the most effective small three guard line up the Hornets could deploy was CP-Thornton and Beli. With that trio you really had the whole package… a dominant point guard who could break down a defense, a slasher and volume score at the two and a decent defender who’s willing to play within the offense, PASS, and a 40% three point shooter who’s knocked down over 100 three balls this season ( and counting). Ain’t gonna happen now, but its fun to dream.

Big flipping deal. Thornton’s jacking up shots on a terrible team. Have you watched any of the games he’s played with Sacramento? Yeah, he’s a good offensive player, but his already-shaky defense has taken a huge step back, when he even bothers. The few steals he gets are from gambling, not from smart play (like many of CP’s steals).

Look, I loved watching Marcus – he was the lone bright spot for me last season, and I was hoping with all my heart he wouldn’t turn into another Julian Wright – but at this point in his career, he’s not the kind of player you want on a playoff team. It’s obvious that he’s got the talent, and I’ll still enjoy watching him. But right now, I’d rather have the best possible Hornets squad as we approach the playoffs, and Landry’s going to be a lot more valuable.

Highmore, I do watch EVERY game Marcus has played in, and this is what I see: a young BALLER who I believe is a bright future in the NBA! He has more steals than ever, and when playing against Ellis, Marcus SHUT him down (Ellis went 3-11 with Marcus on him). When Marcus’ coach noticed, he pulled Marcus off of Ellis & placed him on GS’a top scorer! Marcus then shut him down!! Against our own Hornets, he showed his defensive presence against Beli as well!! I see that as being pretty damn good for this being his 2nd season in the NBA! I love when guys say ‘big deal’ when players like Marcus are doing well! You’re right…I suppose all those players on ‘terrible’ teams (as you call it) should be doing the same…right? Here’s the thing though, the guy is doing OUTSTANDING! He’s showing in 1 1/2 yrs what so many in this league can only dream of! His team loves him, his fans love him, Sactown’s feeling him, ESPN’s feeln him, and so am I! This trade has done more for him as a player, I believe, than many realize! I believe he’s now free to do alot of that which makes him unique…he makes the fans go crazy!! As Doghouse said it best, he goes to bat for his team every single night!!! I only wished our guys could have half his heart!!! But he’s moved on…THANK GOD!!! Cmon Marcus…be the baller everyone knows u are!!!! We love what you represent…HELL YEAH!!!!

We don’t have a playoff team. Being a 7 or 8 seed is not a playoff team. What we as a team should be doing is building a team for the future. Instead of doing so we trade away any and all young talent. At this point people should be asking what does the future hold. How has the coaching staff developed players…they haven’t. Does anyone believe Pondexter is any better now than at the beginning of the season? That falls directly on the coaching staff. This team is definitly headed in the wrong direction. At this point Monty is a huge failure. Stop trading away the future and learn to develop it !!!

That’s exactly what I was referring to. I want a team with a legitimate chance of winning. Not a team as others would be happy with to knock someone else out of the playoffs. I pay very good money for my seats and I deserve a better product than what we have now. I believe we have no long term goals on this team. I mean who are you going to build around if Paul and West leave. The future looks bleak to me. Bad coaching, no ownership, low fan base, no rookies or young players…. How do you see the future?

MaxALM

March 16, 2011 at 4:55 pm

If CP leaves, the future is gonna be damn dreadful.

Nithenz

March 16, 2011 at 1:14 pm

First of all, i’m still not convince wich side to take. Landry value will show in the playoffs, and what you say about trading a fan favorite is also true. But later it came to my mind several players that played for us and they all have something in common with MT5.

Lee Nailon
Eddie Robinson

Damn, need to rush to work, but i will make this short.
Several players put down great numbers on losing teams. I know the list had some others in my head, but i think you understand my point. I loved MT5 and wished it could have work here, but i prefer winning than having an AI type of player.

Talking bout E-Rob, am i the only one who remembers his attemp at his own board to get a rebound that would give him a triple double!! (think it was while on the cavs vs utah for sure). Some players think just in I, good players think about the TEAM.

I agree, that’s why I’m happy to see that Marcus’ offensive play is certainly not that of the ‘I’ type of player. If anyone thinks Marcus is out for stats, then perhaps they should look at his stats! Even better, watch his games…the guy is clearly working hard to get others involved in the game…don’t think so, listen to his teammates during postgame…they say it!!!!!

Doghouse, you’ve got some balls to post something like this at this point. But I’m glad you did. I wouldn’t have posted something as openly passionate, and I won’t say “F*** Monty” because I still think he’s a good coach. But I won’t EVER forgive the Hornets for trading Marcus away. EVER. I will always be bitter about it. It was a match made in heaven, and Marcus clearly wanted to play for the Hornets first, and the Hornets second. He didn’t want to leave his home. How much more perfect could it have been? Cheap (the Hornets love cheap, sorry to say), Efficient, Explosive.

Most of all, while Landry is a great player, they are indeed RENTING him for 2.5 months, now closer to 1.5 months. The Hornets won’t resign him unless West goes somewhere else. And even then, it’s an uncertainty. The Hornets gave away a huge part of their future and huge revenue boost for a 3 month experiment. Most of the people here will say “GET OVER IT” because they think it’s the right move, simply because it was Monty’s and Dell’s decision. All hail Monty and Dell.

All hail Monty and Dell for giving us the privilege to watch Jarrett Jack, Willie Green, and Marco Belinelli in what could be the most boring, mediocre backcourt I have ever seen. And don’t get me wrong, I like Monty and Dell. But I will never forgive them for handing so much talent on a silver platter to another team. If I am not mistaken, Green-Belli-Smith-Landry-Gray are all expiring this year. So Monty and Dell, YOU BETTER GET US SOME GOOD, EXCITING PLAYERS NEXT SEASON.

Big Ups for the post Doghouse. Alot people on here hate on Marcus but i agree with you on wat youve been saying. We trade marcus for a rental that doesnt even win us a ring? Makes no sense at all. I wudnt even defend the DC trade. These two are our future and we trade them. Ive been saying for the longest time that we build around these two but now theyre both gone. Now we are left with a slow, overrated (only on Hornets 247) backup point guard, below average boring wings, and nothing to build around when CP3 leaves. Once cp3 gets the chance he is gone to NY and there is no denying it.

With DC & MT23 we wudda had two stars to build around in the future, sell tickets, and even still win basketball games. Best of all we have no draft pick next year. Demps is gonna have a shit load to do to keep the Hornets alive. My dream wud be for us to resign Marcus next year and Collison but thats wishful thinking. Hate all you want but these trades ultimately hurt us

Great article, This is everything that I have been feeling all season, but couldn’t find the words or balls to post here.

By them shipping Thornton away, a young player that gave us all goosebumps anytime he was called to the scorer’s table, we Hornets fans have been disrespected in a way that is truly unimaginable given the ownership situation here and the city’s attempts to raise attendance.

If that’s true about Belly( bottom 5 defensively according to Synergy Sports, bad on/off defensive efficiency) then Belly really does provide ok to below average defense. That’s not what i wish from our starting shooting guard, and I can understand you’re spite with regards to Belinelli.

As with Marcus Thornton, i still stick by what i said. I’ll say my points again.
1.) Potential is something that is very difficult to harness, one that involves a lot of factors. I think I said this about Pondexter and I said it with Marcus as well. Marcus has the IMMENSE potential to be a potent scorer. – true. But to be a potent scorer in a winning situation? That we still don’t know. I rest my case because clearly, you still don’t see value in what i say. You throw it away, never truely digesting what i have to say. No point in discussing. I agree, with your idea. Monty mishandled the Marcus situation. I also thought that stretch of games where he played well was the breakthrough for our boy Marcus. The breakthrough I WAS SEARCHING from him – that he could completely assimilate himself to the concept of a team and not just blitz the court.

2.) Your idea that DC and Marcus Thornton carried the Hornets to a 37 – 45 record is completely incomplete. Chris Paul carried the Hornets to a 23-22 record. DC and Marcus carried them to 14 – 23. If we translated that to an 82 game season, that’s a 31 – 51 record. Plus you completely discount West in all of this. i can’t calculate the win shares of the 3 for the 37 games that CP3 was out, but i’m pretty sure that West played a huge role along with those 2 to “carry” us to a 14 – 23.

3.) If you don’t remember, I hated the DC trade. DC was going to be traded, that’s for sure. But i thought Demps seriously dampened his trade value by adding Posey to the equation, whilst getting Ariza’s mid-level contract. I was shaky with Ariza from the get-go noting in my previous post that i gave it a C, i was even considering on giving it a D but did not solely because of Ariza’s effect on our perimeter D. HATED THAT TRADE. pls read that right. You seem to box me and a few people here into compartments named “Haters” when in reality we are just people who differ in opinion on some. THIS IS NOT ONE OF THOSE. COMPLETELY HATED THE TRADE, and I STILL THINK WE COULD HAVE GOTTEN MORE WITH DC. ok digest that first. ok.

I absolutely, postively, without a doubt in hell, would have still done the Landry trade, 9 times out of 10, even after watching Marcus completely explode for the numbers you just said. I won’t defend myself, because it seems pointless right now, seeing that Demps just shipped the – as you coin it – “favored” son of NOLA and you’re blinded by the numbers put up by Marcus in a system perfectly suited for Marcus but is a recipe for nothing.

That said, I would have loved it if Marcus could have developed his game there, in NOLA, in a creole blue uniform. But Marcus and his haphazard ways never really fit in this system, never really found a connection with Paul’s controlled, calculating game.

I love the passion you have for the Hornets, absolutely love it. I share in your passion, and i think we all want what’s best for NOLA. but we view the game of basketball in completely different lenses. We can never know for sure which one is better.

And with that, I’m taking a hiatus from Hornets247. I’ve had it with all this negativity. I am a realistic optimist in most of the things in my life: academics, social life, work, etc… But i feel differently for the Hornets. Maybe it’s because it’s the first team I’ve followed since watching the Jordan led Bulls, maybe it’s because i like creole blue. Who knows. But since i followed the Hornets, I’ve ALWAYS BEEN AND ALWAYS WILL BE an optimist to the fullest extent with regards to the Hornets, as you may know now(what with all the mentions by MM – thank you by the way). And although i did not agree with everything the Hornets organization did, I still cheer for improvement, improvement and more improvement. Because I believe there is no use in crying over spilled milk, lest you step on them and slip and get yourself a concussion. I’ve shared my critiques in many Hornets related news over the years, the Tyson Chandler trade(both of them BTW), the Peja signing, the DC trade, the handling of Marcus, JR Smith, Brandon Bass, not picking players i thought could help the Hornets be better, but instead the organization drafted players who never really showed any promise, the Jamal Mashburn issue, the Baron Davis issue, the Magloire situation, etc.. i could go on and on about countless issues i’ve disagreed with. But what did i do? I still supported the team through it. I supported Emeka(who we got for TC), i supported Peja through his years here, i’m trying to support Ariza(as hard as it may be), i’m supporting Landry, i tried seeing Bryon Scott’s issue with said players(i saw it, somehow), i still supported the FO through the drafts, gave Mashburn and Davis the benefit of the doubt, supported Desmond Mason through those brick fest jumpers. Because, I will say it, I love this team, and knowing all the fans from NOLA, i’m beginning to love NOLA in general so much so that I’m still going to support the city even if in the RAREST case of the Hornets moving out(maybe find a Saints blog and learn football?). It is for those reasons that I feel emotional right now about going away. I have invested so much time for the Hornets, and would have donated money if i had money, but to see all this negativity overtake this site, a site I truly love since my brother suggested it to me, for one whole year and possibly beyond, is a sight i cannot stand. This site was able to survive most of the issues that has taken over the team – The CP3 situation(and Youngfella’s insistence on trading him) and the TC trade(how we all hated that we lost the CCC and our defensive identity) just to name a few. But slowly, I’m feeling that this whole Marcus issue will not go away for years, because Marcus was a beloved son, one that carried us through the dreary days of 0809 and because he’s from LSU.

I don’t know how to end this comment(journal whatever) so i’ll just say good luck to all of you and to all your endeavors. To Ryan, MM, Joe and 42, I hope you do a splendid job keeping this site together. Hopefully, once i’ve cleansed myself of all the negativity, i have a site to go back to where hopefully we can support the team again as a united fan base the city and the team can be proud of. to MD, i hope your passion sustains but your mind be more open and your tongue be more sensitive. I wish you the best. GEAUX HORNETS! We can reach the playoffs. Say it. Chant it. Believe it. WE CAN REACH THE PLAYOFFS. Baby steps, baby steps. Paalam.

Really, the Thornton thing is going to go away. It’s practically gone, and considering he’s not coming back, there’s no reason for the discussion to continue too much longer. It will slowly fade away, as it has been doing for a while.

Plus, you know you won’t be able to stay away once playoffs start. You won’t want to. Things are going to be awesome!

I’m really optimistic right now, and I assure you that the tone of my upcoming posts are going to convey that. People will forget alllll about Marcus when we win a first round series.

“…His energy coupled with his being from our hometown school of LSU (yes, hometown, if you donâ€™t think NOLA is an LSU town you are crazy)…”
______________________________________

Not even getting into the Thornton debate. But, whether you like it or not, New Orleans’ “hometown” schools are Tulane, Loyola, UNO, etc., regardless of who the majority like to cheer for. LSU is Baton Rouge’s “hometown” school. My guess is that the majority of NOLA supports LSU, as does the majority of Lake Charles, Lafayette, Natchitoches, Monroe, Hammond, Thibodaux, etc. But it doesn’t make them LSU’s “hometown”. Despite what you may think, the world doesn’t revolve around LSU.

lol, rite. Im from New Orleans and I can tell you, I see way much people walking around in LSU tiger gear than I do in Tulane or UNO. UNO plays in the Sunbelt division and Tulane’s big sport is baseball, the super lame, gay sport.

MaxALM

March 20, 2011 at 10:23 pm

Congratulations, Marcus. Tonight against T’Wolves:

23 points on 12 shots
4-5 from 3pt
8 rebounds
9 assists (NINE)
1 block
2 TOs
+28 for the game, the highest of all starters in the game