It’s me! The semi-anonymous bee who keeps coming back for feedback from you lovely ladies.

Just to refresh your memory, I was a super-regular poster on the boards for months. My live-in boyfriend and I were talking marriage BIG TIME. Ring deposits, venue decisions. We seemed to both be on the same page regarding marriage and heading down that path. I felt an engagement was imminent.

Then in October– a bombshell. His finances are a wreck (see my other post). I got lots of great feedback from you ladies about what to do. Some of you said leave him, some said stand by him, some of you said wait and see. Well, I considered leaving (really) but couldn’t do it. However, I haven’t been that great at “Standing by him” either. Things have mellowed since the big fight but I still asked him to move out of our condo (which he did) and that has been a huge blow to our relationship.

We have been together a year and a half. He is quiet and shy, and not assertive at all. Now I wonder if his passiveness in life has played a part in his financial situation? In short, I have recently found myself thinking that he is too passive to deal with conflict head on. This passiveness extends to other areas of his life as well (unwillingness to finish school despite being very intelligent, lack of a career path or job goals, inability to ask for promotions at work, etc.).

Although the idea of leaving him and being REALLY BROKEN UP FOR GOOD seems incomprehensible to me, I realize now that what I am questioning is his ability to be a provider. You know how it is when you have shared everything with a person. We have been together for so long, I can’t even imagine dating someone else. I have no desire to, honestly! But, I am traditional and want a husband who can step into that provider role. At 27, I think it may be too late for him to grow into it.

I’m torn. I love him, cherish our friendship and deep connection, but feel that his passiveness rules his life.

((HUGS)) you remind me of one of my favorite bees that left a while back ((HUGS))…. I definitely think you can (in the words of M) lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. does he want to change or does he think that everything he is doing is okay? if he sees nothing wrong then it may be time to move on, if he thinks there is a problem then you can both work together. it sounds like perhaps he’s giving up on everythng because his finances are making him lose you?

eta i didn’t give the parallel for my allegory. You can show him all of the wonderful things that he’d be gaining and the fact that he would be losing you, but that’s not going to help him if he doesn’t want to be helped. does he want to be helped.

Well he has gotten a second job, and he works all the time now. But he hasn’t made a budget or gotten financial counseling or anything like that. So the extra $$$ he is now making at Job #2 sort of just dissappears into thin air. He doesn’t have any real idea of his cash flow, so the money from the new job isn’t making any real impact.

I’m just very frustrated, and probably not being very supportive (honestly). I don’t want to hold his hand through this process, despite the fact that it may be overwhelming for him. I need to see him do this independently, and not out of fear of losing me.

More than anything though, his passiveness about career/school/money/etc. has me worried.

Also, to answer some questions, I think he wants to keep ME. But no, I don’t think he cares much about changing his finances. I think everything he is doing, he is doing because I gave him an ultimatum. I don’t think he would have ever changed if I hadn’t insisted. I don’t think he has aspirations of owning a house, a newer car, a savings account, a career, etc. I think he merely has aspirations of marrying ME.

Would he be willing to talk about those issues, either with you or with you and an objective 3rd party? It seems like there must be some sort of reason that he’s choosing to drift. Do you have any sense of what that reason might be?

Uh, I think we may have dated the same guy. He was my best friend, really great to be with. I know what you are saying, we were on the marriage march. But finances are the number one cause of divorce, and you NEED security in a relationship. This isn’t really a negotiable.

If I can give you some advice: leave now. Two things will happen: he will change and you will get back together, or he won’t and you will be better off. But being in a comfortable relationship with him will prevent the change. You will get nothing, and he is likely to get worse.

This isn’t like amorphous change, like paying more regard to my feelings. He needs to make concrete steps to clean his life up to be the person he can be and you deserve. If he can’t do this, it MUST be over.

It sounds really important to you that he figure this all out on his own… I don’t think that he’ll be able to. If you’re willing to work with him on it, then I think you guys could turn it around together though! He seems willing to work hard, which is huge huge huge.

Re: passiveness on career/school though… that’s a different issue. You mentioned he never finished college… what’s his career situation?

@Mrs. Dg– we tried counseling but he is SO QUIET he literally said less than 10 words during the entire session. We went about 3 times. He sat there in silence, occasionally crying, and I filled up the endless silences with the stuff I’m saying here. The therapist and I gave him lots of opportunities to talk– I mean 2-3 minutes of silence while he struggled to find words. But he couldn’t talk about it. He clams up in social situations. He is extremely shy. So therapy wasn’t really effective because I didn’t feel like he was participating at all.

@mrbee — He went to a 4 year college on scholarship, dropped out as a freshman because he partied too much. Then tried his hand at 2 different technical schools, which he also dropped out of because he didn’t want to put in the work.

He has worked for a major retailer for 7 years now on a crew that does displays. He makes good money, but it is not a career. If the store goes under, he is out of a job, and he doesn’t have a skill set to fall back on. The 4 year degree isn’t all that important to me but ambition and desire for a career are. If he wanted to be a plumber/electrician/contractor, for example, I would be thrilled to help him get that certification and open his own business, etc. But he doesn’t. He has no “dreams”/aspirations/etc. He is content.

I actually struggled with social phobia in my twenties. Have you considered that it might be the root cause of some of his issues? Social phobia can often make it difficult for people to go to class and also to interview for new jobs.

This is one of those things that sounds so anti-romance: To leave someone because they can’t budget? By that reasoning all shop a holics and hollywood starlets should be single!

That being said – marriage isn’t all romance and love and finances are part of the less than romantic side of the backbone. If it were me, I wouldn’t marry someone without this being a completely resolved situation. I think while the wedding might be beautiful and fun – the marriage would be painful and lonely until it ended in divorce, and thats no way to live. (I am UBER sorry if that came out to harsh – its just my opinion from reading your posts.)

IF he wants to change and you can be there and supportive, yall could work through the whole thing and live in love for years to come. BUT he has to change for him – not for you or for not wanting to loose you. Change done for someone else very commonly is temporary and ends reverting back to the initial problematic behavior AND adds resentment towards the person the change was done for.

Sometimes what some men need is a good woman to stand beside them and show them the way and vice versa. I know you want him to find his footing on his own but those gentle nudges from you might be what he needs. While its easy for some of us to be assertive in these areas…it much harder for others but if he sees that you’re willing to work with him and not against him…he may make a turn around for you…for the both of you.

But trying to work together (what a marriage is all about) is half the battle….give him a little time…he has to crawl before he walks…