Prison: Where you are held against your will, paying homage to da man, enduring years of repetitive routine designed to subdue your independence, doing time with liars and hypocrites who revel in their ignorance and hatred of the state and where critical thinking is itself a crime.

Should this punk lose the next 20 years of his life, going to prison for manslaughter, getting out on parole in his 30's, have to start from scratch but with a prison record, his life a total shambles. Prison changes a person. This guy is just a kid, but after a decade or more in prison, he'll be a hardened convict.

Right now there's a chance this guy can be redeemed. Maybe he can pull his head out of his immature ass and maybe become a functioning, contributing, useful member of society. Sure the death of his friend is trajic, but maybe this guy can learn from it and become something.

Throwing him in prison just forces him to become a convict, almost certainly removing any chance that this guy will ever be anything but a burden on taxpayers and a threat to society once he's released. I'm basing that near-certainty on US recidivism statistics - yes, I know there are many exceptions, but statistically, the vast majority of convicts are irredeemable after an extended prison sentence.

So the judge looked for a more humane solution. One that could possibly turn this kid into a citizen rather than a convict. One that had a hope for a bright future rather than a dark one.

I have to say I agree with that idea and applaud the man's humanity and his initiative.

Now, as an atheist, I deplore the judge's solution. Right idea, wrong application. But at least his heart was initially in the right place.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein

Should this punk lose the next 20 years of his life, going to prison for manslaughter, getting out on parole in his 30's, have to start from scratch but with a prison record, his life a total shambles. Prison changes a person. This guy is just a kid, but after a decade or more in prison, he'll be a hardened convict.

Right now there's a chance this guy can be redeemed. Maybe he can pull his head out of his immature ass and maybe become a functioning, contributing, useful member of society. Sure the death of his friend is trajic, but maybe this guy can learn from it and become something.

Throwing him in prison just forces him to become a convict, almost certainly removing any chance that this guy will ever be anything but a burden on taxpayers and a threat to society once he's released. I'm basing that near-certainty on US recidivism statistics - yes, I know there are many exceptions, but statistically, the vast majority of convicts are irredeemable after an extended prison sentence.

So the judge looked for a more humane solution. One that could possibly turn this kid into a citizen rather than a convict. One that had a hope for a bright future rather than a dark one.

I have to say I agree with that idea and applaud the man's humanity and his initiative.

Now, as an atheist, I deplore the judge's solution. Right idea, wrong application. But at least his heart was initially in the right place.

Fuck yes. 100 times over.

Church may have been a poor choice, but alternative sentencing wasn't.

Jail does not work. It is punishment, not rehabilitation. This kid has a chance.

Should this punk lose the next 20 years of his life, going to prison for manslaughter, getting out on parole in his 30's, have to start from scratch but with a prison record, his life a total shambles. Prison changes a person. This guy is just a kid, but after a decade or more in prison, he'll be a hardened convict.

Right now there's a chance this guy can be redeemed. Maybe he can pull his head out of his immature ass and maybe become a functioning, contributing, useful member of society. Sure the death of his friend is trajic, but maybe this guy can learn from it and become something.

Throwing him in prison just forces him to become a convict, almost certainly removing any chance that this guy will ever be anything but a burden on taxpayers and a threat to society once he's released. I'm basing that near-certainty on US recidivism statistics - yes, I know there are many exceptions, but statistically, the vast majority of convicts are irredeemable after an extended prison sentence.

So the judge looked for a more humane solution. One that could possibly turn this kid into a citizen rather than a convict. One that had a hope for a bright future rather than a dark one.

I have to say I agree with that idea and applaud the man's humanity and his initiative.

Now, as an atheist, I deplore the judge's solution. Right idea, wrong application. But at least his heart was initially in the right place.

Fuck yes. 100 times over.

Church may have been a poor choice, but alternative sentencing wasn't.

Jail does not work. It is punishment, not rehabilitation. This kid has a chance.

I agree that alternative sentencing was the right way to go. The U.S. has the highest documented incarceration rate in the world. And it's not about rehabilitation, or "getting criminals off the street," or any other such excuses; it's about punishment and retribution. As AS said, the kid would go into jail a sad, scared teen who did a stupid and irresponsible thing and emerge a hardened criminal. Great system.

That said, the judge's alternative was not only unconstitutional but would likely result in an outcome almost as bad as 10 years of prison. Oklahoma is one of the churchiest, most fundie-ridden places in the country. (On a visit to Tulsa several years ago, I had the feeling I could close my eyes, turn in any direction on the compass, walk a short distance, and be assured of hitting a church.) What kind of church do you suppose the kid will be attending for 520 Sundays? More than likely one where he'd have it drilled into him that women should be subservient to their husbands, gays are the scum of the earth, Jesus should be invoked in public schools, abortion should be illegal in all cases, evolution is a lie, and everyone who's not a Bible-believing, born-again Christian is going to hell. Yeah, that'll create a model citizen.

How much better it would have been if the compassionate judge had sentenced the kid to 10 years of community service--working in soup kitchens, changing bed pans in cancer wards, helping poorly educated adults learn to read . . . actually doing some good in the world. That would help a kid like this see things in perspective and gain some much-needed responsibility.

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.

(19-11-2012 01:35 PM)cufflink Wrote: ...
More than likely one where he'd have it drilled into him that women should be subservient to their husbands, gays are the scum of the earth, Jesus should be invoked in public schools, abortion should be illegal in all cases, evolution is a lie, and everyone who's not a Bible-believing, born-again Christian is going to hell.
...

Well, he could have learned all that in prison and also picked up some very useful survival skills.

Church may have been a poor choice, but alternative sentencing wasn't.

Jail does not work. It is punishment, not rehabilitation. This kid has a chance.

I agree that alternative sentencing was the right way to go. The U.S. has the highest documented incarceration rate in the world. And it's not about rehabilitation, or "getting criminals off the street," or any other such excuses; it's about punishment and retribution. As AS said, the kid would go into jail a sad, scared teen who did a stupid and irresponsible thing and emerge a hardened criminal. Great system.

That said, the judge's alternative was not only unconstitutional but would likely result in an outcome almost as bad as 10 years of prison. Oklahoma is one of the churchiest, most fundie-ridden places in the country. (On a visit to Tulsa several years ago, I had the feeling I could close my eyes, turn in any direction on the compass, walk a short distance, and be assured of hitting a church.) What kind of church do you suppose the kid will be attending for 520 Sundays? More than likely one where he'd have it drilled into him that women should be subservient to their husbands, gays are the scum of the earth, Jesus should be invoked in public schools, abortion should be illegal in all cases, evolution is a lie, and everyone who's not a Bible-believing, born-again Christian is going to hell. Yeah, that'll create a model citizen.

How much better it would have been if the compassionate judge had sentenced the kid to 10 years of community service--working in soup kitchens, changing bed pans in cancer wards, helping poorly educated adults learn to read . . . actually doing some good in the world. That would help a kid like this see things in perspective and gain some much-needed responsibility.

10 years of free labor is a bit rough isn't it?

At the rate we throw kids in jail, pretty soon there wouldn't be any jobs left. Just slave labor from prisons.