Since Eclipse's release, I have been listening to Journey's post-Perry catalog a lot. It's down to Arrival and Revelation for my favorite effort, and I think that Arrival took the first spot last night. I think to truly appreciate an album you need to take it out in the middle of the night and drive through the most scenic places available. So last night we were out and I had Arrival playing. Where Eclipse tries way too hard, Arrival sounds completely natural. Arrival feels like that Journey just went into the studio and played what felt right, rather than going in with the preconceived notion of "Journey with big combat boots on."

My favorite tracks are:

Loved By You: This is a 21st Century Journey ballad done right. The clean guitar work from Neal is just perfect and compliments the song so well. Jonathan's piano part had such a great feel to it (I'm a huge fan of his "Piano With a View" album and this is right up that alley with the feel and tone) The lyrics are excellent with a subliminal dark feel to them (If I should die before I wake...) Lots of great atmospheric orchestration as well.

Livin' To Do: The intro of this song makes it for me. Would love this song even more if the electric guitar never came in; Neal sounds fantastic on that acoustic. Steve's vocals are really impressive in this one- lots of feel and power. Like Loved By You, the orchestration is just perfect. Rather than feeling like an extra element as it does in some of the Eclipse work, it holds the song together as a crucial part of it. Did I say I wished Neal stuck with acoustic? Alright well maybe until that great solo. No shredding, just beautiful notes, and some great fills by Deen at the end of it too. This song couldn't get any better, right? Wrong. Jonathan's outro organ solo is sonic euphoria. Such great feel to it and Deen's finesse adds such a wonder element.

With Your Love: This is a contemporary charts dream song. Everything about it is such a natural departure from 80's Journey and it has its own identity. Once again Steve's voice sounds great. The guy has (had) a perfect voice for a new Journey. He has his own style, he isn't Steve Perry and doesn't try to be. I really like that.

Live And Breathe: Possibly my favorite track on the album. Such an atmospheric modern sounding song. Ross isn't a virtuoso bass player, but his lines in this song should show his critics and peers that he is definitely a respectable force to be reckoned with. Not really sure why Neal (allegedly) has such a problem with his playing. Speaking of Neal, his solo in this song is so unique to Journey and had such a great feel to it. This is what Neal wanted to play; not something he's purposely playing just to try to be different from the legacy sound.

Kiss Me Softly: Jonathan's piano playing really stands out. It's very reminiscent of his mid 90s solo work which is just excellent. Neal's acoustic/clean electric back and forth playing adds so much mood to this song. The acoustic solo is the answer to the acoustic tease that Livin' To Do is. Would love to hear Neal incorporate this into Journey a lot more often.

To Be Alive Again: The music is great, although the lyrics aren't really very significant to me. Just a happy feel good song for people in mid life crisis who want to feel young again. That said, it's dangerously catchy. Great chorus and the "Be Good To Yourself" esque piano is pretty good. Then Neal's great solo comes in and he's got some fierce competition with Jonathan during it. Makes for such a great feel to the song.

The rest of the songs in order for most favorite to least favorite:
Signs Of Life
World Gone Wild
Higher Place
Lifetime Of Dreams
We Will Meet Again
I Got A Reason
All The Things
Nothin' Comes Close

Arrival is Journey naturally being Journey. They weren't trying to be anything except for what they really were at that time. They had a great vocalist who brought his sound to the table. There was no clinging to the legacy sound, but there also wasn't a deliberate effort to get away from the legacy sound. Neal and Jonathan both had released excellent solo albums recently before Arrival and they definitely brought that great playing to this effort. Arrival is definitely the best $5.00 I've ever spent on a CD.

"It's really important if you're going to remain a valid band that you play your new stuff. Otherwise you become a parody of what you started out doing." - Janick Gers of Iron Maiden

Archetype wrote:Since Eclipse's release, I have been listening to Journey's post-Perry catalog a lot. It's down to Arrival and Revelation for my favorite effort, and I think that Arrival took the first spot last night. I think to truly appreciate an album you need to take it out in the middle of the night and drive through the most scenic places available. So last night we were out and I had Arrival playing. Where Eclipse tries way too hard, Arrival sounds completely natural. Arrival feels like that Journey just went into the studio and played what felt right, rather than going in with the preconceived notion of "Journey with big combat boots on."

My favorite tracks are:

Loved By You: This is a 21st Century Journey ballad done right. The clean guitar work from Neal is just perfect and compliments the song so well. Jonathan's piano part had such a great feel to it (I'm a huge fan of his "Piano With a View" album and this is right up that alley with the feel and tone) The lyrics are excellent with a subliminal dark feel to them (If I should die before I wake...) Lots of great atmospheric orchestration as well.

Livin' To Do: The intro of this song makes it for me. Would love this song even more if the electric guitar never came in; Neal sounds fantastic on that acoustic. Steve's vocals are really impressive in this one- lots of feel and power. Like Loved By You, the orchestration is just perfect. Rather than feeling like an extra element as it does in some of the Eclipse work, it holds the song together as a crucial part of it. Did I say I wished Neal stuck with acoustic? Alright well maybe until that great solo. No shredding, just beautiful notes, and some great fills by Deen at the end of it too. This song couldn't get any better, right? Wrong. Jonathan's outro organ solo is sonic euphoria. Such great feel to it and Deen's finesse adds such a wonder element.

With Your Love: This is a contemporary charts dream song. Everything about it is such a natural departure from 80's Journey and it has its own identity. Once again Steve's voice sounds great. The guy has (had) a perfect voice for a new Journey. He has his own style, he isn't Steve Perry and doesn't try to be. I really like that.

Live And Breathe: Possibly my favorite track on the album. Such an atmospheric modern sounding song. Ross isn't a virtuoso bass player, but his lines in this song should show his critics and peers that he is definitely a respectable force to be reckoned with. Not really sure why Neal (allegedly) has such a problem with his playing. Speaking of Neal, his solo in this song is so unique to Journey and had such a great feel to it. This is what Neal wanted to play; not something he's purposely playing just to try to be different from the legacy sound.

Kiss Me Softly: Jonathan's piano playing really stands out. It's very reminiscent of his mid 90s solo work which is just excellent. Neal's acoustic/clean electric back and forth playing adds so much mood to this song. The acoustic solo is the answer to the acoustic tease that Livin' To Do is. Would love to hear Neal incorporate this into Journey a lot more often.

To Be Alive Again: The music is great, although the lyrics aren't really very significant to me. Just a happy feel good song for people in mid life crisis who want to feel young again. That said, it's dangerously catchy. Great chorus and the "Be Good To Yourself" esque piano is pretty good. Then Neal's great solo comes in and he's got some fierce competition with Jonathan during it. Makes for such a great feel to the song.

The rest of the songs in order for most favorite to least favorite:Signs Of Life World Gone WildHigher PlaceLifetime Of DreamsWe Will Meet AgainI Got A ReasonAll The ThingsNothin' Comes Close

Arrival is Journey naturally being Journey. They weren't trying to be anything except for what they really were at that time. They had a great vocalist who brought his sound to the table. There was no clinging to the legacy sound, but there also wasn't a deliberate effort to get away from the legacy sound. Neal and Jonathan both had released excellent solo albums recently before Arrival and they definitely brought that great playing to this effort. Arrival is definitely the best $5.00 I've ever spent on a CD.

I LOVE Arrival. I personally prefer Eclipse on the whole, but when it comes to (as you said it best) "Journey naturally being Journey", Arrival is second to none IMO. While I don't deny the album is over-saturated with love ballads, I will personally admit I like all of 'em on Arrival. Not classics, but still enjoyable stuff. The rockers are incredible.

S2M mentioned to me a couple of weeks ago that Eclipse isn't the sort of album that acts as the soundtrack to those "unforgettable moments" like Journey's classic Perry-era albums were. I admit he's right on that: but as of late, Arrival seems to be my personal soundtrack to my "unforgettable moments", which has made me appreciate that album even more than I already did previously. "To Be Alive Again" seems to be the anthem of my life at the moment, "Higher Place" being another option for that rank, as well as summing up how I feel towards a certain girl in my life.

Though I'm ten years late, I wanna thank the band (and Steve Augeri of course) for making Arrival.

They've really put together a nice Post-Perry catalog now with 4.5 albums. Counting soundtracks and bonuses they've created about 65 songs off the top of my head since they moved on. I say Kudos.

Here would be my post-Perry GH:

1. Arrival instrumental
2. Remember Me
3. Higher Place
4. Livin' To Do
5. I Can Breathe
6. Faith in the Heartland
7. Out of Harms Way
8. Never Too Late
9. Change for the Better
10. Wildest Dreams
11. What I Needed
12. Edge of the Moment
13. Chain of Love
14. Resonate
15. She's a Mystery

I was a late comer to Arrival. Just last year I started giving it it's due, and it really is a great album. It's too bad Augeri's voice didn't hold up, because he is who I would pick to lead Journey other than SP, if I had my choice. Just a terrific showman on stage from the DVD and clips I've seen, never got to see him live.

I literally have bad luck with this album. My first Arrival CD my buddy jacked-up and scratched the living shit out of it. I finally found another deal at Wal-Mart for 5$, pick it up and now I got everything but the CD. Nowhere to be found. WTF? Anyway, Arrival ranks high for me. A little TOO ballad heavy but everyone knows this. I feel since it was Journey's first stint of the post-Perry era that they felt they needed to load Arrival up from start to finish. Many tracks but it certainly ranks in Journey's catalog for sure.

Arrival is my favorite Journey album period, by a country mile.... It holds so many memories for me, so many amazing songs, I must have cranked this one up in the car at least a thousand times. I totally appreciate this post. No album by Journey or anyone else will even come close to this one for me. 10 years later, this is still my favorite, and I can't see anything dethroning it. I remember me and a two friends were going through break ups, and we blared the shit out of Signs Of Life... Got to a lot of girls with Kiss Me Softly... We Will Meet Again... renewed my passion for drumming... Living To Do helped me cope with a loss... and I still remember the first time I saw Higher Place in concert... I jumped up so high I landed on my fucking chair... I could go on and on and on... What many feel for Escape or Frontiers, I feel for this album...

Schon Rules All wrote:Arrival is my favorite Journey album period, by a country mile.... It holds so many memories for me, so many amazing songs, I must have cranked this one up in the car at least a thousand times. I totally appreciate this post. No album by Journey or anyone else will even come close to this one for me. 10 years later, this is still my favorite, and I can't see anything dethroning it. I remember me and a two friends were going through break ups, and we blared the shit out of Signs Of Life... Got to a lot of girls with Kiss Me Softly... We Will Meet Again... renewed my passion for drumming... Living To Do helped me cope with a loss... and I still remember the first time I saw Higher Place in concert... I jumped up so high I landed on my fucking chair... I could go on and on and on... What many feel for Escape or Frontiers, I feel for this album...

Now THAT's a ringing endorsement. Signs Of Life is my favorite track on that album. Love that song.

Schon Rules All wrote:Arrival is my favorite Journey album period, by a country mile.... It holds so many memories for me, so many amazing songs, I must have cranked this one up in the car at least a thousand times. I totally appreciate this post. No album by Journey or anyone else will even come close to this one for me. 10 years later, this is still my favorite, and I can't see anything dethroning it. I remember me and a two friends were going through break ups, and we blared the shit out of Signs Of Life... Got to a lot of girls with Kiss Me Softly... We Will Meet Again... renewed my passion for drumming... Living To Do helped me cope with a loss... and I still remember the first time I saw Higher Place in concert... I jumped up so high I landed on my fucking chair... I could go on and on and on... What many feel for Escape or Frontiers, I feel for this album...

Now THAT's a ringing endorsement. Signs Of Life is my favorite track on that album. Love that song.

Seen and met the band twice on the Arrival tour of 2001. First night we seen them in Tampa and when we met them after the show we told them we were seeing them the following night at West Palm Beach. Augeri turned to us and asked if we wanted to make a request for West Palm (seeing as we had flown over from the UK to see em), and we instantly said 'Signs of life' which they hadn't played at Tampa. Steve turned to Neal and asked him about playing the song and i remember Neal saying instantly and i quote, ''sure thing guys we will play that song for you'' Following night they played it, it was our request godammit, YES. Memorable trip.
Fantastic 2 shows and 'Signs of life' remains my fave song off of Arrival.

''I Swear I Will Never Play Another Fuckin Diane Warren Song''.....Neal Schon On Bad English....

Schon Rules All wrote:Arrival is my favorite Journey album period, by a country mile.... It holds so many memories for me, so many amazing songs, I must have cranked this one up in the car at least a thousand times. I totally appreciate this post. No album by Journey or anyone else will even come close to this one for me. 10 years later, this is still my favorite, and I can't see anything dethroning it. I remember me and a two friends were going through break ups, and we blared the shit out of Signs Of Life... Got to a lot of girls with Kiss Me Softly... We Will Meet Again... renewed my passion for drumming... Living To Do helped me cope with a loss... and I still remember the first time I saw Higher Place in concert... I jumped up so high I landed on my fucking chair... I could go on and on and on... What many feel for Escape or Frontiers, I feel for this album...

Now THAT's a ringing endorsement. Signs Of Life is my favorite track on that album. Love that song.

Seen and met the band twice on the Arrival tour of 2001. First night we seen them in Tampa and when we met them after the show we told them we were seeing them the following night at West Palm Beach. Augeri turned to us and asked if we wanted to make a request for West Palm (seeing as we had flown over from the UK to see em), and we instantly said 'Signs of life' which they hadn't played at Tampa. Steve turned to Neal and asked him about playing the song and i remember Neal saying instantly and i quote, ''sure thing guys we will play that song for you'' Following night they played it, it was our request godammit, YES. Memorable trip.Fantastic 2 shows and 'Signs of life' remains my fave song off of Arrival.

Wow... How cool is that?? Damn... I met them a few times, never thought to make any requests lol...

Schon Rules All wrote:Arrival is my favorite Journey album period, by a country mile.... It holds so many memories for me, so many amazing songs, I must have cranked this one up in the car at least a thousand times. I totally appreciate this post. No album by Journey or anyone else will even come close to this one for me. 10 years later, this is still my favorite, and I can't see anything dethroning it. I remember me and a two friends were going through break ups, and we blared the shit out of Signs Of Life... Got to a lot of girls with Kiss Me Softly... We Will Meet Again... renewed my passion for drumming... Living To Do helped me cope with a loss... and I still remember the first time I saw Higher Place in concert... I jumped up so high I landed on my fucking chair... I could go on and on and on... What many feel for Escape or Frontiers, I feel for this album...

Now THAT's a ringing endorsement. Signs Of Life is my favorite track on that album. Love that song.

Seen and met the band twice on the Arrival tour of 2001. First night we seen them in Tampa and when we met them after the show we told them we were seeing them the following night at West Palm Beach. Augeri turned to us and asked if we wanted to make a request for West Palm (seeing as we had flown over from the UK to see em), and we instantly said 'Signs of life' which they hadn't played at Tampa. Steve turned to Neal and asked him about playing the song and i remember Neal saying instantly and i quote, ''sure thing guys we will play that song for you'' Following night they played it, it was our request godammit, YES. Memorable trip.Fantastic 2 shows and 'Signs of life' remains my fave song off of Arrival.

Now that is cool! I'm glad you were accommodated. It's stuff like that that makes fans HUGE fans.

Archetype wrote:Livin' To Do: The intro of this song makes it for me. Would love this song even more if the electric guitar never came in; Neal sounds fantastic on that acoustic. Steve's vocals are really impressive in this one- lots of feel and power. Like Loved By You, the orchestration is just perfect. Rather than feeling like an extra element as it does in some of the Eclipse work, it holds the song together as a crucial part of it. Did I say I wished Neal stuck with acoustic? Alright well maybe until that great solo. No shredding, just beautiful notes, and some great fills by Deen at the end of it too. This song couldn't get any better, right? Wrong. Jonathan's outro organ solo is sonic euphoria. Such great feel to it and Deen's finesse adds such a wonder element.

This is my favorite song on the album and the highlight of the show I went to that year, in my opinion. They didn't play it at every show that year, so I'm glad I caught one where they did. The music is outstanding and compliments the lyrics perfectly. One of Augeri's best vocals while he was in the band, in my opinion.

Rick wrote:I was a late comer to Arrival. Just last year I started giving it it's due, and it really is a great album. It's too bad Augeri's voice didn't hold up, because he is who I would pick to lead Journey other than SP, if I had my choice. Just a terrific showman on stage from the DVD and clips I've seen, never got to see him live.

I caught one of the first few shows Journey did after Augeri joined the band, in Indianapolis in November '98. He sounded great that night. I saw them a few months later in June or July of '99. He ruled the stage that night, much more confident than the first time around.

Eric wrote:They've really put together a nice Post-Perry catalog now with 4.5 albums. Counting soundtracks and bonuses they've created about 65 songs off the top of my head since they moved on. I say Kudos.

Here would be my post-Perry GH:

1. Arrival instrumental2. Remember Me3. Higher Place4. Livin' To Do5. I Can Breathe6. Faith in the Heartland7. Out of Harms Way8. Never Too Late9. Change for the Better10. Wildest Dreams11. What I Needed12. Edge of the Moment13. Chain of Love14. Resonate15. She's a Mystery

1.Never Walk Away
2. Place In Your Heart
3. Signs Of Life
4. State Of Grace
5. Anything Is Possible
6. With Your Love
7. Change For The Better
8. Turn Down The World Tonight
9. Kiss Me Softly
10. A Better Life
12. Edge Of The Moment
13. Resonate
14. Live And Breathe
15. Remember Me

"It's really important if you're going to remain a valid band that you play your new stuff. Otherwise you become a parody of what you started out doing." - Janick Gers of Iron Maiden

It's so nice to see so many people share the love for this record. I was a big fan of Arrival since it's release and i don't remember so much acclaim in the past in this forum; i guess the album took its place in fans' hearts slowly by time. Maybe that's true because in 2001 you would only compare Augeri with Perry and Arrival with all the classic albums, while now the comparison is done with the post-Perry albums/singers.

I think Arrival had moments of brilliance songwriting-wise and the production was solid. Not the most memorable performance from the band maybe as it's not as loud as Eclipse , but it was by far more soulful and it communicated the feel of it all around. It was ballad heavy indeed and could have missed one two songs , however the band was in ballad /mid tempo mode at that point and they produced very good ones. John Kalodner had commented for Arrival that no matter if it's a ballad or a rocker , if it;s a good song it must be in the album despite Schon's (expectable) preference on more rockers. But i cannot agree more with the a&r guru. It just happened the opposite from what happens now in Eclipse that the band created great rocking tunes but imho the ballads are below average.

Finally Steve's performance was the best moment in his career i think, far more better than tall stories and the rest of journey recordings. Though he had the 'discipline' to deliver the Perry-isms , you could hear he was making every song his own , and put his mark on them.

I, too, love Arrival! I listened to it for the first time in quite a while the other night. I had forgotten how wonderful this album truly is. Steve Augeri really shines as lead vocalist. Talking about having a connection with songs on album, I certainly had a connection with Arrival. It ranks up there with anything Journey has ever done with Steve Perry.

The more I revisit this album, the more unjourneyish it sounds. The Schon/Blades tracks are prolly the best post-Perry work the band has ever done, but a few of the tracks are head scratchers or just boring. "Livin to Do" and "Loved by You", as good as they are, feel like solo works from Schon and Cain. "Nothing Comes Close" sounds like Bad English with Augeri instead of Waite. The current lineup gets unfairly slapped with the "cover band" label alot, but in the case of the insincere, ballad-by-numbers, "With Your Love", it's pretty accurate. This sounds like a band trying waay to hard to re-capture the lightening in a bottle magic of Faithfully. "Live and Breathe" is another Augeri-penned clunker like "Believe" or "Butterfly". I just do not get this song at all, and the constant refrain of "Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah!" at the end is annoying. Emerging from Perry's shadow, Journey either needed to release a cd of feel-good melodic rockers like Revelation, or move in a bold different direction like Eclipse. Arrival aims to do a little of both, but as a result, fails to forge it's own identity. Wish it was an album of Schon/Blades rockers with maybe 3 ballads tops. I still like it, but it's something of a confused mixed bag.

"I think we should all sue this women for depriving us of our God given right to go down with a clear mind, and good thoughts." - Stu, Consumate Pussy Eater

It's a fantastic album...still love it to this day. Augeri sounds great and the songs are just good.

I remember making the comments at the time how "Nothing Comes Close" sounds like Bad English and how "All The Things" could have even been Hardline...both great songs. "To Be Alive Again" and "Signs Of Life" are my 2 favorite tracks. "Live And Breathe" and "Loved By You" could have been the only 2 ballads, but "All The Way" (while my least favorite track on the album) wasn't too bad. I wish "Remember Me" would have been included.

I put them all on my iPhone and there are 70 Post-Perry "Journey" songs. But I'm including the Arrival leftovers that ended up on Mickey Thomas and Jack Blades albums (Written by Journey, for Journey and have performances from Journey members), Believe in Me with JSS, Schon and Deen (that I feel was his audition to Cain), Winds of Freedom, Good Time Tonight and Filmore Boogie. Plus all the Bonus tracks: Pride of the Family, Let it take you back, I'm not that Way.

Well, most know on here I adore Arrival. I have to admit it ranks as my most listened to Journey album any era as time has gone on. I love every single ballad on there save one maybe. I should just cut and paste my thoughts on it. The melancholic vibe moves me. I hear a very evolved Journey on here. not Journey just being Journey. And I just don't hear Perry in Augeri's singing. At times I hear a Rod Stewart vibe. Augeri's vocals are rough on a few songs for sure. But I fell in love with his understated soulful delivery. I love Neal's playing on it in a huge way. Love all the piano melody, on and on.

But I can't compare Arrival to Eclipse. Arrival is a moody, melancholic album and many songs about love. I listen to that album a lot in the winter, rainy days.

Eclipse is high energy. I love the power and high tenor clarity of Arnel's vocals and just love this album. This album puts me in a great mood by the time I hit AIP. And, yes, I love the whole ending to AIP. Resonate is amazing. One of their best ever. I think the guitar playing is never overdone for the music. The album just flies by for me. I thought I wanted Arrival .02. I was so wrong. Love the direction they took. I love it that both albums aren't similar. Both are special for different reasons.

Jana wrote:Well, most know on here I adore Arrival. I have to admit it ranks as my most listened to Journey album any era as time has gone on. I love every single ballad on there save one maybe. I should just cut and paste my thoughts on it. The melancholic vibe moves me. I hear a very evolved Journey on here. not Journey just being Journey. And I just don't hear Perry in Augeri's singing. At times I hear a Rod Stewart vibe. Augeri's vocals are rough on a few songs for sure. But I fell in love with his understated soulful delivery. I love Neal's playing on it in a huge way. Love all the piano melody, on and on.

But I can't compare Arrival to Eclipse. Arrival is a moody, melancholic album and many songs about love. I listen to that album a lot in the winter, rainy days.

Eclipse is high energy. I love the power and high tenor clarity of Arnel's vocals and just love this album. This album puts me in a great mood by the time I hit AIP. And, yes, I love the whole ending to it. Resonate is amazing. One of their best ever. I think the guitar playing is never overdone for the music. The album just flies by for me. I thought I wanted Arrival .02. I was so wrong. Love the direction they took. I love it that both albums aren't similar. Both are special for different reasons.

I had them neck and neck with my initial review of Eclipse a few months back. I don't like the idea of re-recording Arrival though. Taking photo ops with Augeri was cool and all that but going back and re-recording an album that featured his vocals is a bit too much. Arrival doesn't need a second chance on the market.
When all is said and done, it will still have outsold Eclipse.

Don you were right about that rerecording of Arrival thing, I thought for sure they meant singing Arrival tunes live.

Having now read the Neal interview, and I'll have to skim the part again, he seemed to be going down the road of saying they might pull a Revelation and have a disc 2 with some post-perry tracks including some Arrival.

I don't know, that's the only thing I could see making some sense. Precedent is there for what posit in the second sense given they've already re-done FITH and TPIYH.

"I love almost everybody."---Rocky Balboa 1990
"Let's reform this thing.Let's go out and get some guys who want to work and go do it"--Neal Schon February, 2001
"I looked at Neal, and I just saw a guy who really wants his band back"-JCain 2/01

Red13JoePa wrote:Don you were right about that rerecording of Arrival thing, I thought for sure they meant singing Arrival tunes live.

Having now read the Neal interview, and I'll have to skim the part again, he seemed to be going down the road of saying they might pull a Revelation and have a disc 2 with some post-perry tracks including some Arrival.

I don't know, that's the only thing I could see making some sense. Precedent is there for what posit in the second sense given they've already re-done FITH and TPIYH.

I thought it was a Cain/ Pineda thing that they would have to sell to Neal but it sure seems like he is on board. They have to be talking bonus songs or a pack-in disc, no way do you re-record Arrival as a stand alone product unless you are selling it exclusively through your website or only through Digital outlets (itunes/Amazon) with no overhead.