6:43:57 PM Me: Ohio doesn't issue permits, Ohio issues 5 year licenses after passing extensive background checks and training. I went through all the legal hoops and personal probing during March of last year.

6:44:53 PM Interviewer: Why did you decide to apply for a license?

6:47:13 PM Me: I live in Cincinnati, which is the 16th most violent city in the country. Almost every single nightly news had about 10-15 minutes of news stories involving people getting violently assaulted, raped, or murdered. I finally came to the realization that there is a chance that some of this may occur to me no matter how cautious I am, and I wanted to do everything within my legal means to prevent myself from becoming a statistic.

6:48:46 PM Interviewer: Have you felt more safe since you got your license?

6:50:16 PM Me: Well, feeling safe doesn't really mean anything. Being safe, and having an option to effectively defend myself against deadly force, means something. I have had to draw one time, but thankfully I didn't have to fire a single shot. I honestly don't know what would have happened to me if I didn't have my defensive firearm with me at the time.

6:50:45 PM Interviewer: Do you care if I ask you to describe the situation you were in?

6:57:08 PM Me: I was taking a walk around my neighborhood and passed a young male sitting in the grass about 10-15 feet away from a bus stop, talking on his cell phone. There were two bags leaning against the post, that I assumed belonged to him. He asked where I was going, and if I was in a hurry, to which I responded "I can't help you bud." He then got up and started yelling and making threats to me, while increasing his pace to a jog and putting his right hand in his pocket. I don't know if he had a pistol, knife, or what-not in his pocket that he was going to use on me, and I was not about to find out after being threatened. I don't remember me actually drawing, or what I actually yelled at him. But when I presented my defensive firearm, he turned 180 and ran full bore the other direction.

7:01:05 PM Me: Ted, there are some people that think license holders are just out there looking for a reason to shoot somebody. Even before that incident, I loathed putting my pistol on my hip. It was the ultimate symbol and reminder as to the kind of people that you may run into. It was also the one thing that may have saved my life, and I didn't have to pull the trigger. My hands were shaking too much to dial 911 to report the incident for over half an hour. My pistol is now the ultimate reminder, to me, that I have an option to live, when I otherwise may not have had that option.

7:02:37 PM Interviewer: Well man, I just want to say I'm glad you had to use it and that nothing happened to you.
How did you get involved with the Students for Concealed Carry on Campus group?

7:08:38 PM Me: Shortly after I got my license, I started looking at the Ohio Revised Code in depth, as well as the lack of safety measures and security on my campus. This prompted me to start contacting the administration and police department on campus about my concerns, where I was blown off after two or three emails sent back and forth, especially when I said I feared that there may be shots fired on our campus. Less than a month later, April 16th came around, and a day or so later SCCC was formed by Chris Bown from North Texas University. Later in April, shots were fired on my campus on the porch of a dorm. I joined, became a campus leader, and am now on a national organizer for the group. I joined because I don't believe that people who hold valid licenses and carry nearly everywhere else in their daily lives for defense of their own life shouldn't be allowed to carry on college campuses.

7:09:50 PM Interviewer: Now is it about private or just public campuses?

7:13:52 PM Me: I personally believe that about every college campus, public and private. I do respect the rights of private property owners, which is why I'd like to see the immunity clause in the Ohio Revised Code (ORC) that applies to private businesses, also apply to college campuses (public and private), while explicitly stating that institutions of post secondary education can not punish valid license holders from carrying on college campuses. This would protect the universities from any liabilities if a license holder should, heavens forbid, have to fire to save their life, while making it legal for a license holder to legally carry on campus property. The way the current ORC is, if a license holder is walking on the sidewalk bordering a college campus they are perfectly legal. However, if they step foot on the grass, they're now guilty of a felony.

7:15:51 PM Interviewer: Does the group have the same position on a private campus? I thought I read it was only for public. Obviously you would know better than me.

7:17:24 PM Me: Now, as a group, we've taken the official stance that we're aiming to change the laws to read more like Utah's. That is just my personal view on it, which is viewing it as a form of affirmative action, so to speak, that would also protect the university from any potential litigation that may go their way (which is highly unlikely, even if it was legal).

7:19:02 PM Interviewer: Got you.
Some people who oppose allowing the license to apply to universities claim it would make these places more dangerous. What do you say to your opponents arguments?

7:23:36 PM Me: Out of the over 40 sates that issue concealed handgun licenses, every single state has seen a drop in crime, both violent and property. License holders do not cause any problems off college campuses, such as malls, movie theaters, restaurants, parks, etc., so to me it is illogical to assume that they will not practice the same diligence in a college classroom as they would in a business office. Life is stressful in both situations, college has academics, for some work, for some peer pressure and parties, etc. However, life off campus has similar situations but on greater magnitudes. Mortgages, car loans, bars, making a corporate deadline, etc.

7:25:16 PM Me: Given that the predictions of our opposition in pretty much every state when the concealed carry laws were introduced have been proven false (such as arguments over parking spaces turning into shoot outs, places turning into the wild west, and blood running down the street), why should we assume any differently on college campuses? Heck, statistically speaking, your average license holder is five times less violent than a non-license holder. Are you really going to worry about somebody who's past an extremely harsh background check, has voluntarily had their photo taken by law enforcement agencies, has voluntarily been fingerprinted, has undergone classroom and range training, and has taken a decent chunk of change out of their pocket for the license?
7:25:40 PM Me: Wouldn't it be wiser to instead focus on the gang banger that's shoving a pistol in his pants and doesn't give two hoots about the law?

7:28:37 PM Interviewer: What do you think of the gun free zones?

7:32:28 PM Me: I call them criminal protection zones. They logically serve no purpose. If somebody is going to commit an illegal activity, do you really think telling them that they're not allowed to do it, or making it more illegal, is going to stop them? We have thousands of career criminals on the streets, they don't care about laws against murder, assault, drug trafficking, vandalism, rape, nor the fact that they can't legally possess a firearm of any kind to begin with if they're a felon. Career criminals habitually break the law, and the more they do so and the more time they spend behind bars, the more violent they become. I was blessed by being able to participate in a citizen's police academy and got to see quite a bit of statistics as well as see this first hand, both in the prison system and from the passenger seat of a patrol car. They don't care about you or me, or our families. It's never the law abiding citizen that causes harm to people Ted, and making innocent people defenseless does not keep them safe.

7:33:57 PM Interviewer: Like the mall shooting last month or the month before? As opposed to the church where an older woman did have her license and gun on hand?

7:35:53 PM Me: Precisely. To my knowledge, there have only been 3 people killed in Ohio by the over 101,000 concealed handgun license holders. All of them have been ruled justified, and the license holder was never charged with anything. You can find many many many news reports from across the country about law abiding citizens using their defensive firearms to defend themselves, or another person going back to 2003 here: http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefenseblog/blogger.html

7:37:53 PM Interviewer: Thanks for the link

7:38:12 PM Interviewer: I forgot to ask, what's your exact position with the group? What do you do?

7:39:37 PM Me: I'm the campus leader here at the University of Cincinnati, in Cincinnati, Ohio. I'm also the second amendment liaison, and act as a go-to man between our organizations and other organizations, in addition to being the one who started our empty holster protest in during the week of 10/22/2007 and the coming one during April 21st of this year.

7:41:52 PM Interviewer: So there would be a lesser chance of another Virginia Tech happening if licenses were allowed to affect a campus?

7:45:11 PM Me: This is a question that gets asked a lot. It's not something that you can definitely say yes, or definitely say no. I do know that two students armed with guns stopped a sociopath in Virginia in 2003 at the Appalachian School of Law before he could kill more than 3. I know that students helped pin down the sniper using their firearms in 1966 at Texas University, and that a student and a police officer ended his rampage. I think Suzanna Hupp put it best in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhyuJzjOcQE She's a former Texas State Rep.

8:00:33 PM Interviewer: Sweet, thanks. I just have one last question (for now, I might be contacting you agian when I speak to the anti-concealed carry professor this week), how did you get the idea for the empty holsters?

8:02:22 PM Me: My buddy Allan and I were chatting shortly after the tragedy at VT, and he mentioned what an impact it would be if a bunch of students wore empty holsters to class for a day at his school. The only problems is that he's in a distance learning program up in Kettering, OH, so he doesn't attend a brick and mortar school. So, I took the idea, extended it for a full week, and ran with it.

"Seems like an excellent interview. Any clue when the story will run so I can have my wife (a Kent State student) grab a copy of the Stater for me?" Found out it's actually going to be in their magazine, http://www.theburr.com/

As an ex scout, yup, but I would love to have the chance to file litigation that would pay for my college education.

Robert Hairless

February 6, 2008, 04:05 AM

Good interview. You did well: level headed, rational, and articulate. Just enough.

It's a solid "A." :)

Conqueror

February 6, 2008, 09:12 AM

I was wondering what happened to Ted, Scott asked me to contact him and do this interview but he never responded to my email. You did a solid job, he seems fairly sympathetic to our cause and I hope the article ends up reflecting that.

jeep45238

February 7, 2008, 04:22 PM

Same here. I'm unsure about the USA Today reporter I spoke with today is going to do, I detected a bit of personal bias in her, but I also detected a desire to do a good piece of journalism - hopefully that means real journalism filled with balance and facts.

jeep45238

February 14, 2008, 11:26 PM

Received this email just a little bit ago:

Kristin, Scott, Michael,

I just heard my story is running tomorrow. They were holding it to run on the front page, but it was decided late this evening to run the story tomorrow in light of the latest campus shooting. Just wanted to give you a heads up.

Decent article, seemed to be well balanced. First half was pretty well done - your interview seems to have not been twisted in any way that I noticed.

The second half deals with opponents of SCCC, their viewpoints and feelings. The writer didn't delve into any statistics themselves, but did not seem to sway the story either way. The only gripe I have is that they interviewed more than 1 person on the "against" side but it seems that the arguments given and interviews so shortened that more than 1 was necessary to equal the length and breadth of Mike's.

BruceRDucer

April 30, 2008, 09:19 AM

7:35:53 PM Me: Precisely. To my knowledge, there have only been 3 people killed in Ohio by the over 101,000 concealed handgun license holders. All of them have been ruled justified, and the license holder was never charged with anything. You can find many many many news reports from across the country about law abiding citizens using their defensive firearms to defend themselves, or another person going back to 2003 here: http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefe...g/blogger.html

---Jeep45238

This is a beneficial interview, and Jeep, you are commendable for your objective presentation. People like you are lookin out for people like me, and the average citizen. :)