And on immigration, I cannot be in any better company than standing with The Anchoress:

More importantly – for the soul of America – Are we going to put together massive trains and – at gunpoint – load these people and head them south? Is this what we want America to be?

We have to think long and hard about what it means – and what it will FEEL like – to gather people together at gunpoint and put them on trains to send them to a place they do not want to go. Our intentions could be the purest and most noble in the worldâ€¦that scenario still still smacks of history we donâ€™t want associated with us. It sets a precedent we dare not embrace. I donâ€™t want to see such pictures in our history books. That is not America. That cannot be America, if she is to survive.

…

A friend emailed me that he was feeling very hopeless, that if we could not â€œship â€˜em outâ€ we – as a nation – are doomed.

I think if we do â€œship â€˜em outâ€ without concern for their humanity, for their dignity (and for our humanity and dignity – and for our souls) we may well be doomed.

Some people do a lot of things. I have seen people do worse on college campuses and they are native born Americans. I have seen a crucifix in a jar of urine called art. I have also seen Mexican mothers on TV crying because their sons were killed in Iraq wearing the uniform of the US military.

AJ:

I think that talk of us being “doomed” because of the current state of illegal immigration is absurd and melodramatic. I am reading a book right now on WW2, the loss of life, the chaos, the cruelty, to expenditure in treasure and the enduring scars that war left were so staggering that people today can not comprehend it…but we were not “doomed”.

I fail to understand why people get so hysterical about immigration reform. Secure the borders, create a work program, do criminal background checks, keep track of who is here and stem the tide. We can deal with this without shipping millions of people off in cattle cars. It should be remembered that illegal entry is a Class B misdemeanor, it is not a death penalty offence.

It’s this kind of thing that is scary, Clarice picked if up from
the corner and posted in comment thread at JOM.
Note that in email American is not capitalized. I asked Clarice
if this was typo – she said she had just cut and pasted.

Interesting as a few months ago, Anchoress/GatesOfVienna
had post regarding the EU (hence eu) no longer capitalizing
Jesus.

La Raza objects:
“A Hill rat just passed along an alert that went out from the D.C. office of La Raza today warning its allies about the Alexander citizenship bill, S. 1815.But first. Here’s Senator Alexander talking about the bill on the Senate floor: Joined by Senators Cornyn, Isakson, Cochran, and Santorum, I have introduced S. 1815, the Strengthening American Citizenship Act, that is indispensable to any comprehensive immigration bill. This legislation, that I plan to offer as an amendment at the appropriate time during this debate, would help legal immigrants who are embarked on a path toward citizenship to learn our common language, our history and our way of government by:â€¢ providing them with $500 grants for English courses;
â€¢ allowing those who become fluent in English to apply for citizenship one year early (that is, after four years instead of five);
â€¢ providing grants to organizations to offer courses in American history and civics;
â€¢ authorizing a new foundation to assist in these efforts;
â€¢ codifying the Oath of Allegiance which new citizens swear when they are naturalized;
â€¢ asking the Homeland Security Department to carry out a strategy to highlight the ceremonies in which immigrants become American citizens; and
â€¢ establishing an award to recognize the contributions of outstanding new American citizens.

Now to La Raza’s concerns. Among them, in the e-mail I’m looking at, the La Raza staffer warns: â€œwhile it doesnâ€™t overtly mention assimilation, it is very strong on the patriotism and traditional american values language in a way which is potentially dangerous to our communities.â€So, “patriotism and [A]merican values”â€”by which I’ll assume they mean learning English and knowing basic history–are â€œpotentially dangerousâ€ to Hispanics?

AJ, you must admit that these people are not helping the cause
and unless one is actually living in one of the border states, one
cannot fully understand what LaRaza is doing everyday that
exactly works against a reasonable immigration solution.

Victor Davis Hanson has written a book “Mexifornia” on the
problems. He is from a farming family and is firsthand and
eyewitness to what is going on there, and it is not pretty.
He wants them assimilated and not separate. LaRaza wants
them as separate as possible.

I agree with you, Terrye. I carried on an all-day discussion with another blogger yesterday on this topic. I say discussion rather than debate, because he and I generally agree, and basically just kept bouncing ideas off each other. There is a lot of disagreement floating around the blogosphere on this issue, but the one area that seems to be developing consensus is to, first and foremost, stop the bleeding. I found this link in a comment on a post at CQ this morning. It wouldn’t be the be all/end all solution to the problem, but I think it could certainly be a significant step. There cannot, IMO, be a solution that does not include stopping the tidal wave of illegals into this country.

I think this recent Gallop Poll that showed 80% of Americans don’t want anything that even remotely sounds, looks or feels like amnesty for those illegals already here, took our elected representatives totally by surprise. Right now there’s a lot of posturing on both sides of the political aisle while the pols are trying to figure out which position will (a) gain them the most votes, or (b) lose them the fewest votes.

Since, as Terrye notes, rounding them up and shipping them out would probably not be physically possible, the only other solution would appear to be a two-pronged approach: provide disincentives for companies and individuals who hire illegals, and make it easier for immigrants to come here legally. In other words, true immigration reform. Unfortunately, I don’t have much confidence in our congressmen and senators to do either. We may have a few chaotic election cycles before the dust settles on this.

Really? Cathing them and deporting them is not possible. Then how possible is your suggestion:

“We can deal with this without shipping millions of people off in cattle cars.
– Secure the borders
– create a work program
– do criminal background checks
– keep track of who is here and stem the tide. ”

How possible is it to conduct background checks on 12 million people?

Let also remember that you going to have to still hunt down those who are criminals and will not step forward because they know that they will fail the background check.

You also need a constant threat of capture otherwise you will never be able ot secure the border.

Dear Retired Spook,
Bolded the entire graph on LaRaza email on purpose on
that one. Too late and too tired to just bold the quoted
lines.
Worst I have done with tags, so far, is not closed the link on the

The Soul of America? When you break into someone’s home and pollute their atmosphere with new diseases you have no dignity. When you tresspass on property that is not yours you have no honor. When you steal the rightful heritage of those who built their homeland you are disrespectful. When you trample on the flag of your guest, you spit in his face and you are dispicable. When you ignore legal authorities you are an anarchist. When you displace true owners of their priveleges you are the worst kind of thief. When you expect handouts and rights at the same time you have no SOUL!

I allowed this comment through to illustrate what won’t work.Â The ‘disease’ is hate and that is what needs to be removed from civilized debate – AJStrata

I made a long post about two related “Indigenous” movements which are really c0mmunist-inspired “nationalist” movements.
One is in Mexico and one is here.

The one here Aztlan/La Raza wants to make the SW into an Indian “Aztec” nation that is not part of the US. They don’t recognize our country or our right to determine who comes in or who becomes a citizen. They say that they were here first and can go where they want. They don’t recognize our borders.

There is a similar movement in Mexico that wants to overthrow the government. It is the EZLN or Zapatista Army.

Really, these are communist movements that are exploiting Indian people.

I think that the people coming here must be documented and checked to see if they are criminals. But in Mexico a lot of people aren’t registered. They are supposed to register their babies but they don’t, so they are ghosts in Mexico, too.

I have agreed with you on several issues such as the Miers nomination, FISA/NSA, and the port debacle. However, I respectfully disagree with you on the illegal immigration issue. Iâ€™m with the Tom Tancredo / John and Ken crowd regarding reform i.e. secure the borders first, amnesty never. More importantly, itâ€™s personal for me. Last fall, I came close to losing several members of my family because of Mexican gangs in L.A. A group of my family and friends went to a local park to watch a peewee football game. The guys (teens to early 20â€™s) were surrounded by a dozen or more gang bangers demanding to know â€œwhat set do you belong to?â€ When the boyâ€™s mother said that her son did not belong to a gang, all hell broke loose. The mother was knocked to the ground with a bat, kicked, stomped and beaten. They had to fight their way out with the kids, the girls, the mom and the boys. Then, as per usual, the Mexican gang bangers came back, searching the neighborhood to defend their â€œhonorâ€ and shot up the area killing a young man who they had never met.

Given the high number of illegal aliens that make up these gangs, Iâ€™d say there was a 50-75% chance that they were illegal aliens. Either way, Iâ€™m 100% certain that the sanctuary laws and the non-enforcement of the immigration laws protect these criminals and stop the police from doing their job. Of course, they always have the option to flee to Mexico (like David Marchâ€™s killer) and return whenever they feel like it through our laughable border security.

This story is but one of thousands in Los Angeles, the Southwest, and places like Arizona where the ranchers / farmers / Indian reservations are terrorized and their land trashed by illegal aliens. So, the pictures I see are images of innocent young men who have their brains blown out for walking in the park and their killers protected from the police. Versus the image of illegal aliens arrested and deported. Guess which picture doesnâ€™t bother me at all? I know what it feels like to be held at gunpoint, but I will never give in to it. I refuse to be terrorized by Al Queda, illegal aliens or any other thug who hates America and its laws. If people want to come to this country, they can do it legally and demonstrate that they respect our country, our laws and its people. Anything else is unacceptable.