Hi Ali Sina.News make me scared, because there is censorship.Europeans now know what islam is and they hate it, but they can do nothing butsay 'islam sucks!'Muslims are just 6%, yet we already have shariah law, some countries have fullshariah law with less than 5% muslim population.the anti islamic "far" right get a lot of support by people, but when is timeof election they never get enough votes, and sometimes they just remain thesecond party (like Marine le Pen).So in my lifetime, what i should do? Accept a forced conversion to islam (idon't want to say it)Dying with burqa?Is really this my future? I was happy to not being born in islamia qhen I waslittle. Instead islamia come to my home, and i will die as muslim (even if onlyoutside) woman, or i will die beheaded by someone as infidel.I have only those two choices? Where i can move?

Hi Alice

Islam will never win. As you yourself said, everyone hates Islam. They are not yet doing anything against it because it is not hurting them enough, but as more incidences like the beheading of the British soldier in London become news, more people will come to see that by not doing anything they are betraying their own country and their own children. Declarations made by David Cameron and Boris Johnson, the PM of UK and the Major of London saying Islam had nothing to do with that heinous murder, did nothing but to anger a lot of people. People know the truth and are offended when their intelligence is insulted.

We need to step up our effort to expose Islam. That is why I wrote the script on Muhammad. A good movie about Muhammad will do far more damage to Islam than anything else. See movie.alisina.org

Please join this forum and remain in touch with everyone else. I don’t say we should not fear Islam. If you have a venomous snake in your house you’d be a fool if you don’t fear it. But instead of letting fear paralyze us we should let it motivate us to find the snake and kill it.

We must change our inept governments. When Cameron says "We will never buckle to terror", everyone knows it is hot air. He does not even know who is the enemy. He is protecting the enemy and saying it has nothing to do with the murder. Who in his right mind can believe him?

Once we change our governments we have to change our laws. No the laws of immigration should not be changed, Immigrants are not the problem Muslims are. We should end this insane political correctness and ban the immigration of Muslim and send those who don't want to integrate and keep their faith back. We have to ban all mosques. All mosques promote hate. We have to band the preaching of Islam. We have to ban Islam. Period. Nazism is banned in many European countries. But Nazism is dead. We need to ban Islam.

The media and academia doing everything with their lies to maintain the illusion of there is nothing wrong with Islam.

.

Neither have I. I am not so optimistic as Ali Sina. The governments in all countries in Europe are cowards , and already dedicated to the cause of Islam. Do not say anything bad about Islam, or else..... People who bravely and openly fight Islam are called racist , Nazi's and worse, and although enough people in Europe are fed up with Islam and Muslims, but when there are elections they still vote for the wrong party. Here in Holland left wing people call Muslims the new Jews who are being oppressed and persecuted by extreme right groups . That is what they call anyone who dares to criticizes Islam. Extreme right-wing movements .

When something like this last tragedy happens...( It was the same in Holland when a muslim killed Theo van Gogh) Muslims feel and think they are the victims. So also in Wales... THEY live in fear.

'I won't be going out alone in the near future': Young Muslims in Wales on their fears of a backlash after Woolwich murder The murder of drummer Lee Rigby has seen mosques targeted around the UK, including in Cardiff where bacon was left on a doorstep. Darren Devine speaks to young Welsh Muslims fearing an angry backlash.

And then they start complaining how they suffer.

A mosque in Kent was attacked, while in Essex a man walked into a temple brandishing a knife and up to 100 members of the far right English Defence League gathered in Woolwich.

On Thursday night a burning bottle was hurled at the Zainabia Islamic Centre in Bletchley.

And in Cardiff, bacon - offensive to Islamists on religious grounds - was left in the entrance to a mosque.

A muslima claims...

But Miss Farooq, who specialises in Muslim wills at solicitors Douglas-Jones Mercer, added: “I have to admit that I do feel very conscious and won’t in the near future be going out on my own.

“I believe there are certain individuals who have been very upset at the incident that took place in Woolwich and they may want to vent their frustrations on a Muslim.”

Miss Farooq, who wears Islamic headdress, says she feels more vulnerable because her clothing singles her out as an easy target.

And another muslima is also not sure she will live a long and happy life with all those racist and nasty people in Wales

She said: “I’ve been followed in my car. When I’ve been jogging in the street I used to get really bad racist slurs.

“When I used to go to the gym women would make comments to me. One time I was coming out my house and a car drove past and they were shouting ‘BNP’.

Another news report I just heard is that the policeman in Sweden who allegedly shot and killed a muslim in a Stockholm neighborhood, ( The man was reported to threaten police with a machete,) is being accused of manslaughter.

Ariel wrote:People who bravely and openly fight Islam are called racist , Nazi's and worse,[...]

And whose fault is that? Reading "anti-Islam" material, it's never too hard to find racial prejudice mixed in there. IslamVersusEurope referring to Africans as "animals" (if my memory serves me correctly, they weren't even Muslims), TheMuslimIssue referring to Arabs as "goat herders" (yet don't see a problem with linking to "goat herders" like Nonie Darwish). Even on this forum, we have people cheering on the massacre of Muslims or calling for the sterilization of their women. We have two extreme forms of criticism. One mixed with racial prejudice and the other spouting rubbish only a degree above Muslim apologists (e.g. Hassan Radwan and his ilk). Rarely do they meet in the middle.

Ariel wrote:People who bravely and openly fight Islam are called racist , Nazi's and worse,[...]

And whose fault is that? Reading "anti-Islam" material, it's never too hard to find racial prejudice mixed in there. IslamVersusEurope referring to Africans as "animals" (if my memory serves me correctly, they weren't even Muslims), TheMuslimIssue referring to Arabs as "goat herders" (yet don't see a problem with linking to "goat herders" like Nonie Darwish). Even on this forum, we have people cheering on the massacre of Muslims or calling for the sterilization of their women. We have two extreme forms of criticism. One mixed with racial prejudice and the other spouting rubbish only a degree above Muslim apologists (e.g. Hassan Radwan and his ilk). Rarely do they meet in the middle.

Oh, yes nice...Let's play the victim. I did not speak about race but about Islam. And I spoke about pure white European left wing people who think they are the best people on this earth because they are of the opinion they have to defend Islam.

Ariel wrote:Oh, yes nice...Let's play the victim. I did not speak about race but about Islam. And I spoke about pure white European left wing people who think they are the best people on this earth because they are of the opinion they have to defend Islam.

Did I say you spoke of race? No I did not. Did I point out why it is so effortless (and so often accurate) for apologists to characterize any group of people who criticizes Islam as "Extreme right-wing movements"? Yes I did. And who is playing the victim here, me or those who are crying about their democratically elected governments?

The problem with labels like that is that they are getting used like and ad hominem argument:

A says: "I believe that Islam is a violent and dangerous ideology, and I can show you evidence for this conviction of mine."

B replies: "You are nothing but an nasty right-wing extremist, akin to a Nazi"

It is way to try to SHUT SOMEONE UP, to prevent him making a case.

Therefore it is important to prevent people from taking this easy way out, by avoiding calls for extreme measures. It is vital that people understand that we are NOT motivated by any kind of hate, racial, religious or any other. We want no more than the truth about Islam to be known, accepted and acted upon. We don't want to fight or kill anyone, we want to help Muslims understand that they have been deceived. We want our governments to understand that the ideology of Islam is a danger to freedom and democracy.

A "right wing extremist" wants to destroy democracy and establish a fascist dictatorship. We want to preserve democracy, freedom of the individual and all the values we painfully, over centuries, have struggled hard to win and maintain. A "right wing extremist" wants to control people and abolish freedom of speech. We want to see people free from the controlling influence of Islam and shariah, and make sure our children will live in places without thought control, where they can develop their full potential in all their talents and speak they minds on anything they like. Above all, we want all this for all Muslims too, as nobody is really free while there are some left who are not.

Ariel wrote:People who bravely and openly fight Islam are called racist , Nazi's and worse,[...]

. Even on this forum, we have people cheering on the massacre of Muslims or calling for the sterilization of their women. We have two extreme forms of criticism. One mixed with racial prejudice and the other spouting rubbish only a degree above Muslim apologists (e.g. Hassan Radwan and his ilk). Rarely do they meet in the middle.

I do agree that some members here have crossed the limits. I also support your stance about having a middle ground but I do not know how exactly we can have a middle ground.

I will criticize both the views in the following 2 paras.

People who hold extremist views about massacring muslims are really angry about muslims which is understandable. Almost every day we have some news regarding muslims causing mayhem somewhere on the planet. There is a limit of tolerance and the muslims as a community has crossed all the limits. How long should people be patient before all this stops? It is obvious that people are going to dislike muslims. Daily nuisance caused by muslims reinforces the negative belief about muslims to the extent that non muslims (who never have been muslims themselves) tend to paint all the muslims with the same brush. Even though this is wrong it is definitely natural and obvious. Radwan and his likes fail to see the whole affair from the non muslim(who have never been muslims all their life) point of view. A simple example that would drive this point home is to point Hassan and his likes their own behaviour. They often generalize FFI as a hate site failing to recognize that not every FFI member holds the same views however when someone from FFI generalizes about muslims they tend to claim that not every muslim has same views.

On the other hand this hatred of muslims is carried forward too much by people putting extremist views here. We are talking about 1.5 billion muslims. That is a whopping number. No 2 individuals are same so how can 1.5 billion people be the same? There are bound to be plenty of innocent people among them. If all the 1.5 billion were criminals, really no place on earth would be safe. Those who harbor extremist views like calling for massacre of all the muslims or calling all the muslims as terrorists or asking to sterilize the muslim women fail to grasp this. Take an example of Ahmed Bahgat . We know that he is a harmless fellow. Should he be massacred? Ofcourse not! There could be plenty of such Ahmed Bahgats in the world. So even the extremist views harbored here on FFI are not justified.

The ideal solution here is to find the middle ground. When we suggest a middle ground then we need to come up with a concrete solution to stop the problems caused by muslims and at the same time ensure that innocent muslims are not targeted. The question is “how do we do that”?

Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.

Muslims need to be shown the door from Western countries but in a civilised manner. Western governments need to categorize islam as a totalitarian political ideology & outlaw it. Giving them one to five years to leave for a country that is compatible with their practices. Meanwhile instituting very harsh penalties to non-muslims for persecution of any kind.

If we act like savages but get rid of islam the savages are still in charge.

My Grand father was a WW2 vet. He told me that at the beginning of the war there were good guys & bad guys but by the end of the war everyone was a bad guy. I never forgot that this is what hate & war do to people.

" The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men."

manfred wrote:The problem with labels like that is that they are getting used like and ad hominem argument:

A says: "I believe that Islam is a violent and dangerous ideology, and I can show you evidence for this conviction of mine."

B replies: "You are nothing but an nasty right-wing extremist, akin to a Nazi"

It is way to try to SHUT SOMEONE UP, to prevent him making a case.

…………...

That, in my opinion, is not really the best way to engage an ignorant leftie like that.

The best would be to keep throwing the ball to them. Put the onus of them to show that islam is good. Each time they say something stupid, which they always will, anybody with even a rudimentary knowledge of the koran can point out why such a person is not giving an adequate explanation, and then follow with another question.

Keep asking questions. To use the hockey analogy, just keep the puck in the opponent’s end of the rink. It doesn’t matter if they have the puck. They cannot score from their own end, and sometimes they accidentally put the puck in their own net.

IslamoCritic wrote:………. Even on this forum, we have people cheering on the massacre of Muslims or calling for the sterilization of their women. ……...

I haven’t done either of those things. Indifference is not the same as cheering about it.

I wouldn’t cheer or have a celebratory drink over the misfortune of muslims, but I am not going to send them any sympathy cards either.

Ariel wrote:…………... And I spoke about pure white European left wing people who think they are the best people on this earth because they are of the opinion they have to defend Islam.

No kidding!!!

People who ignorantly use the race card don’t even mention that!!!

manfred wrote:The problem with labels like that is that they are getting used like and ad hominem argument:

A says: "I believe that Islam is a violent and dangerous ideology, and I can show you evidence for this conviction of mine."

B replies: "You are nothing but a nasty right-wing extremist, akin to a Nazi"

It is way to try to SHUT SOMEONE UP, to prevent him making a case.

…………….

Yup.

Sounds familiar. Such as calling people "bigots" and "callous bastards".

The prophet of Islam was nothing more than a common criminal.

Please tell me if this is accurate:

“I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken.” ~MUHAMMAD (Al-Tabari 6:111)

My Grand father was a WW2 vet. He told me that at the beginning of the war there were good guys & bad guys but by the end of the war everyone was a bad guy. I never forgot that this is what hate & war do to people.

There is never a perfect outcome to war.

The most important outcomes of WW2 were threefold:

(1) The fascists in Italy were crushed. (2) The militarists in Japan were crushed. (3) The Nazis in Germany were crushed.

Notwithstanding any other imperfections in the result, surely justice has never been better served.

The prophet of Islam was nothing more than a common criminal.

Please tell me if this is accurate:

“I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken.” ~MUHAMMAD (Al-Tabari 6:111)

Declarations made by David Cameron and Boris Johnson, the PM of UK and the Major of London saying Islam had nothing to do with that heinous murder, did nothing but to anger a lot of people. People know the truth and are offended when their intelligence is insulted.

People are mostly still sedated. They wake up for a moment and then go back to sleep when they hear the lullaby from Cameron and the media.

Ali Sina wrote:We need to step up our effort to expose Islam. That is why I wrote the script on Muhammad. A good movie about Muhammad will do far more damage to Islam than anything else. See movie.alisina.org

Great idea

Ali Sina wrote:Please join this forum and remain in touch with everyone else. I don’t say we should not fear Islam. If you have a venomous snake in your house you’d be a fool if you don’t fear it. But instead of letting fear paralyze us we should let it motivate us to find the snake and kill it.

I agree. However, I fear a snake less than I would fear muslims in my midst. Snakes have ethics. If they have a place to run away, they will go. If you don’t mess with them, they don’t mess with you.

Muslims have, historically, shown no such ethics.

Ali Sina wrote:We must change our inept governments. When Cameron says "We will never buckle to terror", everyone knows it is hot air. He does not even know who is the enemy. He is protecting the enemy and saying it has nothing to do with the murder. Who in his right mind can believe him?

Sedated people are not in their right mind.

Cameron knows who the enemy is. He just lacks to balls to say so.

Ali Sina wrote:Once we change our governments we have to change our laws. No the laws of immigration should not be changed, Immigrants are not the problem Muslims are. We should end this insane political correctness and ban the immigration of Muslim and send those who don't want to integrate and keep their faith back. We have to ban all mosques. All mosques promote hate. We have to band the preaching of Islam. We have to ban Islam. Period. Nazism is banned in many European countries. But Nazism is dead. We need to ban Islam.

I agree, but I hope you are not holding your breath.

The prophet of Islam was nothing more than a common criminal.

Please tell me if this is accurate:

“I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken.” ~MUHAMMAD (Al-Tabari 6:111)