If the Koran is supposed to be Allah`s final guidance for mankind then it only shows how pathetic Allah is when it comes to conveying guidance. If this is the best that Allah can do then it can only discredit Allah to the point where the Koran chops the legs away from Allah and proves that the whole of Islam is false. No real god would make such a pig`s ear when conveying final guidance.

no matter what whoever communicates anything to anyone or anything does it to suit oneself. It is because there is always some purpose behind anyone doing anything at all. The quran is best communication possible for its purpose by its author.

From our point of view any sort of communication from god will not be up to our standard because we have no fixed standard to measure things up to nor we can have one to judge things by. It is because we are born knowing nothing at all and keep learning and keep finding new things and so there is no time when we all could agree on anything due to differences in our knowledge. One person is 100 years old already and other is just born and will take another hundred years to reach some conclusion which will be very different from the man died already after life of 100 years. It is because human beings keep adding to bank of information with time.

How much information is needed for us human beings, we cannot decide. imagine God telling us history of the world. Even if he told us names of people imagine could we carry that book? how about names of the books and all the prophets and the places he sent them to and people he sent them to. Likewise how much detail should be there in the scripture about anything at all. So we can see that all this god could do for us but could we use all that information and if we could not then what could be the point in god giving us a huge book that was useless for us anyway?

So rather than raising silly objections against the scriptures, we better educate ourselves and try and make sense of whatever little we have from god. If we were clever enough we could not be asking silly questions and wasting our time.

One can see my on going work on the quran by clicking HERE and then going to discover islam forum section.

Last edited by Mughal on Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

There are Muslims who do follow Allah's commands without any "interpretations", as it is written in the Quran.

They are ISIS, Boko Haram, the Taleban, Al Shabab and the hundreds of various jihadist groups roaming around the planet, and causing death, destruction, misery and mayhem, just as it is written in the Quran, sunna and sirat rasul. Not to mention the barbaric sharia laws.

You, Mughal, do not like the words of Allah, so you feel that you have the right to change them, because you want your own personal Islam.

Mughal wrote:From our point of view any sort of communication from god will not be up to our standard because we have no fixed standard to measure things up to nor we can have one to judge things by.It is because we are born knowing nothing at all and keep learning and keep finding new things and so there is no time when we all could agree on anything due to differences in our knowledge. One person is 100 years old already and other is just born and will take another hundred years to reach some conclusion which will be very different from the man died already after life of 100 years. It is because human beings keep adding to bank of information with time.

I am surprised that you do not see how foolish it is on Allah's part to send message to us if what you say is true. If we humans are designed in a way that we can never find any communication upto our standard (because of n number of reasons as you mentioned) then does it make sense to send communication to such a creature who is not capable to understand the significance of it? The stupidity of Allah does not end here. He later punishes humans if they don't find quran to their standard when he fully knows that by design humans would not be able to find any knowledge to their standard.

To see how stupid this is let us take an example. Would it make sense on my part to teach a 5 year old kid about complex models of universe? Wouldn't people call me an idiot if I further blame/punish them for not understanding or not taking interest in understanding what I say? I should know that any such communication to a 5 year old kid is pointless because by design a 5 year old is not capable to understand such things nor is he interested in listening to such stuff.

Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.

The quran is best communication possible for its purpose by its author.

That is why you have to completely rewrite it, right?

Dear manfred, for your information I am not rewriting the quran but expressing my understanding of the message. Each person has to make sense of the quranic text for oneself and share it with others and the best possible interpretation will ultimately carry us through because in time we will come to realise what is right and what wrong as our knowledge increases with time and effort we put into our learning of the message the way we are told to learn it.

pr126 wrote:There are Muslims who do follow Allah's commands without any "interpretations", as it is written in the Quran.

They are ISIS, Boko Haram, the Taleban, Al Shabab and the hundreds of various jihadist groups roaming around the planet, and causing death, destruction, misery and mayhem, just as it is written in the Quran, sunna and sirat rasul. Not to mention the barbaric sharia laws.

You, Mughal, do not like the words of Allah, so you feel that you have the right to change them, because you want your own personal Islam.

Brother peter, you cannot follow anything without interpretation that is impossible. I will agree that some people interpret the quran different as opposed to others but only they can explain why they do that just as I am explaining my interpretation of the quran and the reasons behind it. Unless one goes through my writings one cannot know why I am interpreting the quran the way I am.

So, Mughal, you are saying you are "interpreting" the message. But would ISIS not also say this? So who should kill whom as an apostate? Surely both cannot be right.

And if such vastly different interpretations are possible, then surely the communication was very poor indeed. If gave a lecture and one student thought I talked about issues around intelligent design and the other thought I explained the causes of malaria, does that not mean I gave a lousy lecture? Who is responsible to explain things clearly? The speaker or the listener?

And an all-knowing all-powerful communicated is such a way that people argue about what he said, for 1400 years?

And you are quite wrong when you say we don't know why you are doing what you are doing. Most of us have read quite enough of your writing to work it out. It is a massive self-deception and an attempt to make Mohammed's rants acceptable in the 21 century. You are merely deceiving yourself and others.

Mughal wrote:From our point of view any sort of communication from god will not be up to our standard because we have no fixed standard to measure things up to nor we can have one to judge things by.It is because we are born knowing nothing at all and keep learning and keep finding new things and so there is no time when we all could agree on anything due to differences in our knowledge. One person is 100 years old already and other is just born and will take another hundred years to reach some conclusion which will be very different from the man died already after life of 100 years. It is because human beings keep adding to bank of information with time.

I am surprised that you do not see how foolish it is on Allah's part to send message to us if what you say is true. If we humans are designed in a way that we can never find any communication upto our standard (because of n number of reasons as you mentioned) then does it make sense to send communication to such a creature who is not capable to understand the significance of it? The stupidity of Allah does not end here. He later punishes humans if they don't find quran to their standard when he fully knows that by design humans would not be able to find any knowledge to their standard.

To see how stupid this is let us take an example. Would it make sense on my part to teach a 5 year old kid about complex models of universe? Wouldn't people call me an idiot if I further blame/punish them for not understanding or not taking interest in understanding what I say? I should know that any such communication to a 5 year old kid is pointless because by design a 5 year old is not capable to understand such things nor is he interested in listening to such stuff.

Dear skynightblaze, it is true that human beings can never know what Allah knows because humans are born with very limited capacity in comparison to God. However it is possible for people to come to a reasonable understanding of the message from which they can benefit as I have explained in in detail HERE and HERE. All the main questions that come to minds of people are dealt with by the quran itself and all one has to do is read the quran and try to understand it.

Allah has told human beings facts about things but people will have to come to know them in their own time by their own efforts. You people keep on this website keep looking at the quran through explanations of mullahs and their critics instead of making sense of things by yourselves by having facts and quran before your own selves. This is why you will not be able to understand the quran till you change your way of looking at the message of the quran as clearly explained by me. It is for thios reason you do not realise that why Allah created mankind. You simply think Allah created mankind for his pooja paat as a test and if people will not do as Allah tells them then he will roast then in a place called hell forever. Not only that you people think that Allah punishes people in this very life for their sins and many are destoyed by Allah for that reason.

I am challenging this whole idea put forth by ignorant and foolish mullahs and their equally stupid critics. Allah has created mankind for his IBAADAH. Word ibaadah in the proper quranic context does not mean pooja paat. All it means is to do as told by Allah in order to fulfil his purpose for which he created mankind. This is why in many of my posts I have been explaining how important it is for mankind to know why Allah created them. Are you people so foolish that you cannot even think that God does not need any pooja paat? Had he created mankind for pooja paat will he then create people totally ignorant? Will he in that case send his message to just one person to tell the world? How long could that person take to tell that message to the world? Meanwhile how could God prove anyone has done anything wrong deliberately? Can anyone in your right mind do anything wrong knowingly and deliberately? So merely jumping on bandwagon of stupid people does not make one a scholar. As I have explained already Allah has created mankind to know God through his creation and revelation by their own efforts. For this purpose he has set-up the universe and things in it and put people through a process wherein they struggle for whatever comes to their minds because they have not been given any source of information other than their own brains and senses and whatever is there to learn and do things and rise to the level of thinking whereat they can benefit from guidance of Allah.

This is a totally different concept from sins and tests and punishments or forgiveness etc etc. First get familiar with the concept the quran puts forth and then sit and criticise it all you like. Islam is a deen ie a way of life or the way to live their lives for people and it is not a religion ie a dogmatic creed. Mullahs and their critics want us to accept islam is dogmatic creed with some useless rituals that has nothing to do with reality. This is why they are spending a lot of time and resources to get that point through. However they keep failing and very badly. So people should find out what is islam, a deen or a mazhab?

manfred wrote:So, Mughal, you are saying you are "interpreting" the message. But would ISIS not also say this? So who should kill whom as an apostate? Surely both cannot be right.

And if such vastly different interpretations are possible, then surely the communication was very poor indeed. If gave a lecture and one student thought I talked about issues around intelligent design and the other thought I explained the causes of malaria, does that not mean I gave a lousy lecture? Who is responsible to explain things clearly? The speaker or the listener?

And an all-knowing all-powerful communicated is such a way that people argue about what he said, for 1400 years?

And you are quite wrong when you say we don't know why you are doing what you are doing. Most of us have read quite enough of your writing to work it out. It is a massive self-deception and an attempt to make Mohammed's rants acceptable in the 21 century. You are merely deceiving yourself and others.

Dear manfred, let me take you through a little exercise if I may. Let us choose word AL-DEEN and let us look at what Allah says about it in the quran.

The question is, what is meant by word deen? Can anyone dare disagree with me that it means way of life appointed by Allah for people to live by. It in no way means a collection iof some baseless dogmas and some rituals.

Here Allah is telling us the true way of life will prevail over all other false ways of life.

In fact there are many verses in the quran where it uses word deen in sense of a way of life. This being the case why mullahs misinterpreted the quran in surah 1 verse 4? My interpretation for this verse is the day of deen of Allah ie the day the deen which is from Alah will become established and the people will use it to decide all issues of their lives thereby. Is my interpretation of this verse correct? Yes, because in 48/28 above we are told a day will come when deen of Allah will become an established reality over an above all other ways of life.

In these verses Allah tells us people deny the day the deen of Allah will become fully established in this world. Later people are asked, do you know what the day of deen is? And same is asked again. After that they are told, it is a day ie a period of time, when none will be authority over another save Allah ie it will be rule of law of Allah whereby all people will have learned to live. This is why life will become blissful, dignified and secure for humanity.

How will deen of Allah become accepted worldwide? It is because the ways of life people will adopt independent of way of life advised for them by Allah will lead them to hell of their own making and so people will learn things the hard way and that will force them to find something better and better so little by little adjustment in their ways of life over a long time will land then in the lap of deen of islam just like a baby learn to walk.

It takes a very patient person to work through the quran to see what it actually says and how it all fits together. DEEN of ALLAH means rule of law revealed by Allah not baseless dogmas and useless rituals, which I remember explaining in detail. I explained what words like SALAAH, ZAKAAH, SOWM, AZAAN, HAJJ etc etc mean and why they are called pillar of deen of islam. People need to read what I have written then study the quran and see how things change. One can only try and take the horse to the water hole but is it up to the horse to drink or not to bother.

I cannot discussed things in detail for the time being because I am busy with my interpretation of the quran which is more important for me to complete than get involved with individuals right now. Nonetheless I wish everyone good luck with whatever they are doing for learning to reach the ultimate truth. God helps those who help themselves.

No you may not, You may answer the points made to you, and not post piles of unrelated nonsense. The question was if you and ISIS have entirely opposing interpretation of what the message of the Qur'an actually is, was Allah unable to communicate his message clearly, or was he unwilling?

And we don't need a lecture on deen. It essentially identifies Islam as a totalitarian political ideology. That is why the Nazis liked it so much. And who decided who is the apostate, ISIS or you? The one with the biggest gun?

And if Islam is not largely about stupid dogma and silly ritual, why is it full of both of those?

Mughal wrote:Dear skynightblaze, it is true that human beings can never know what Allah knows because humans are born with very limited capacity in comparison to God. However it is possible for people to come to a reasonable understanding of the message from which they can benefit as I have explained in in detail HERE and HERE. All the main questions that come to minds of people are dealt with by the quran itself and all one has to do is read the quran and try to understand it.

Dear Mughal, Please rectify your basic reasoning skills first. Before you utter rubbish about God's logic or his plans for guiding mankind, please prove that quran came from God i.e Allah. Now you would win the TROLL of the year award on any forum and your posts are an insult to human intelligence. In such a case, it's highly unwise to call others foolish or ignorant. I doubt if you understand how others see your posts.

As far as your argument is concerned, you are changing your argument now. You initially said that any sort of communication from god will not be up to our standard. Now you are saying that it is possible to reasonably understand the message of quran which means that communication from God can be upto our standards.

Now I am bored of asking the same old question again and again to which you answer with paragraphs of spam. How can quran claim itself to be CLEAR when only 1 person (yourself) has understood what it is trying to say in last 1400 years? Also I want to ask a question which others have already asked..

If quran is a message of peace and if someone interprets it exactly the opposite i.e. a message of violence then what does it tell you about the author's way of communication? Is he a clear communicator?

Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.

No you may not, You may answer the points made to you, and not post piles of unrelated nonsense. The question was if you and ISIS have entirely opposing interpretation of what the message of the Qur'an actually is, was Allah unable to communicate his message clearly, or was he unwilling?

And we don't need a lecture on deen. It essentially identifies Islam as a totalitarian political ideology. That is why the Nazis liked it so much. And who decided who is the apostate, ISIS or you? The one with the biggest gun?

And if Islam is not largely about stupid dogma and silly ritual, why is it full of both of those?

Dear manfred, Allah has revealed his message as it should have been revealed and it is up to people to educate themselves to the level required for understanding of the message. So people who educate themselves enable themselves to tackle the message of the quran and those who do not suffer the consequences for remaining ignorant by not being able to live their lives as they should. This will remain the situation for as long as people have this mindset, attitude and behaviour towards the message of God ie they will keep on fighting each other till they beat each other up and thereby lead each other up the right track by force. We human beings are like children of same parents and our parents have given us an advice and some of us listen to it while others do what they like but family goes through hell because of those who disregard the advice without actually studying it properly to benefit from it. Likewise we need to look into the advice given by Allah than not being bothered with it assuming we know better or that we will have accepted the advice if it was this way or that way instead of seeing into it as to what actual sense it gives us and whether it is beneficial for us or detrimental. With this attitude even if God became a human being like us and gave his book in our own hands we will just leave it on a side and get on with what we are doing or want to do.

The question of apostasy does not arise in deen of islam because people have right to follow their own thinking after all Allah has created people to discover things for themselves because he has created them not knowing a thing so why will he punish them for that? One day sit on your own and think about it may be penny will drop.

Mughal wrote:Dear skynightblaze, it is true that human beings can never know what Allah knows because humans are born with very limited capacity in comparison to God. However it is possible for people to come to a reasonable understanding of the message from which they can benefit as I have explained in in detail HERE and HERE. All the main questions that come to minds of people are dealt with by the quran itself and all one has to do is read the quran and try to understand it.

Dear Mughal, Please rectify your basic reasoning skills first. Before you utter rubbish about God's logic or his plans for guiding mankind, please prove that quran came from God i.e Allah. Now you would win the TROLL of the year award on any forum and your posts are an insult to human intelligence. In such a case, it's highly unwise to call others foolish or ignorant. I doubt if you understand how others see your posts.

As far as your argument is concerned, you are changing your argument now. You initially said that any sort of communication from god will not be up to our standard. Now you are saying that it is possible to reasonably understand the message of quran which means that communication from God can be upto our standards.

Now I am bored of asking the same old question again and again to which you answer with paragraphs of spam. How can quran claim itself to be CLEAR when only 1 person (yourself) has understood what it is trying to say in last 1400 years? Also I want to ask a question which others have already asked..

If quran is a message of peace and if someone interprets it exactly the opposite i.e. a message of violence then what does it tell you about the author's way of communication? Is he a clear communicator?

Dear skynightblaze, to prove anything people first need to realise the need for proof and then look at the nature of the case for which a proof may be needed and then see if there is a way to prove the case then look at the claim and available evidences and see if they make sense and if they do than that is the proof. I have explained all this in detail in my writings. The question therefore is how to prove the quran is word of God? The way to prove the quran is word of God is by examining it in light of real world realities as to what it says in it and find inconsistencies within or with statements it contains about real world realities and our fidnings about realities. This is what we humans have not done yet ie we never sat down and tried and make sense of the text of the quran and the proof is there are hardly many people who know what the words used in the text of the quran mean or why they mean what they mean or how they came about to be used in the quran in the first place. We simply accepted what palace mullahs told us and started to criticise the quran instead of questioning scholarship of mullahs who tried to mislead us on behest of rulers and money lenders.

One only has to see the curse of money lenders in india and china the most populated countries on the earth. The reality is yet to sink in, in time to come as to where we are heading and why and who is leading us and where. The quran told us 1400 plus years ago to observe real world realities to learn from to become learned and told us very clearly that that is why we are bestowed with brains and senses and provisions. It also told us the best possible way of life to use provisions for our own development and prosperity and so far humanity has not discovered any better way of life than the one told in the quran already so long ago. A clear proof that the quran is word of none other than Allah because if man could think that far ahead then we will have been a lot better people than we are. If we deliberately do not follow a way of life because we want to fight with each other to show to each other who is better man then battlefield is all set and we can keep going till last man is left standing just to prove we know better than our creator.

Allah has already told us that we can only live a blissful, dignified and secure life if we learn to live with each other as a complementary community of people ie by standing in for each other not standing against each other. We are told all that because Allah told us he has created us advantaged and disadvantaged so if both advantaged and disadvantaged worked as one people like a good family there is not going to be any problem. However we see that we can take advantage of each other so we go for that and that is the way of life we have adopted for our living and the results are still to come and they are not going to be encouraging for our chosen ways of life. This is why one day deen of islam will become a reality no matter how much many of us human beings detest that. This is what the quran says, so was that a coincidence?

Ladies & Gentlemen. What you see above is not a blank space. Your eyes are misleading you. The correct interpretation is written in the holy Book, handed down by Allah. It is a 3200 year old depiction of Muslims exodus from Egypt. Where are the Muslims, you asked?. By will of Allah, they already passed they are here--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->>>And where are the Egyptians, they haven't arrived. They are . <<<---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- here

That the twisted logic with which dear mughal, you are using here to convince us the most absurd and obvious tale going back 1400 years. Then decent Muslims are surprised why Jews in Khybar & Yatrib refused to believe, nor follow Mohammad.

The question of apostasy does not arise in deen of islam because people have right to follow their own thinking after all Allah has created people to discover things for themselves because he has created them not knowing a thing so why will he punish them for that? One day sit on your own and think about it may be penny will drop.

Whilst I, and many other critical, rational thinking human beings would agree that " people have right to follow their own thinking" Islamic sources and the ways and example of its prophet do not.

Seems you don't know your deen as well you ought Mughal.

Reliance of the Traveller page 599o9.0 JIHAD(O: Jihad means to war against non-Muslims, and is etymologically derived from the word mujahada, signifying warfare to establish the religion…

Quran 3.85If anyone desires a religion other than Islam,(submission to Allah),never will it be accepted of him, and in the hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost all spiritual good.

Quran 2.161 Those who reject Faith, and die rejecting,- on them is Allah's curse, and the curse of angels, and of all mankind

Quran 9.29Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Quran 9.111God hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur 'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than God? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

Sahih Muslim Book 019, Number 4366: It has been narrated by 'Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.

Al Muslim Book 016, Number 4152: 'Abdullah (b. Mas'ud) reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: It is not permissible to take the life of a Muslim who bears testimony (to the fact that there is no god but Allah, and I am the Messenger of Allah, but in one of the three cases: the married adulterer, a life for life, and the deserter of his Din (Islam), abandoning the community.

Sahih Al BukhariVol 004, Book 052, Hadith Number 196.-----------------------------------------Narated By Abu Huraira : Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' and whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)"

Sahih Al BukhariVol 008, Book 082, Hadith Number 794.-----------------------------------------Narated By Anas : Some people from the tribe of 'Ukl came to the Prophet and embraced Islam. The climate of Medina did not suit them, so the Prophet ordered them to go to the (herd of milch) camels of charity and to drink, their milk and urine (as a medicine). They did so, and after they had recovered from their ailment (became healthy) they turned renegades (reverted from Islam) and killed the shepherd of the camels and took the camels away. The Prophet sent (some people) in their pursuit and so they were (caught and) brought, and the Prophets ordered that their hands and legs should be cut off and that their eyes should be branded with heated pieces of iron, and that their cut hands and legs should not be cauterised, till they die.

Sahih Al BukhariVol009, Book 084, Hadith Number 057.-----------------------------------------Narated By 'Ikrima : Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Sahih Al BukhariVo 001, Book 011, Hadith Number 626.-----------------------------------------Narated By Abu Huraira : The Prophet said, "No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr and the 'Isha prayers and if they knew the reward for these prayers at their respective times, they would certainly present themselves (in the mosques) even if they had to crawl." The Prophet added, "Certainly I decided to order the Mu'adh-dhin (call-maker) to pronounce Iqama and order a man to lead the prayer and then take a fire flame to burn all those who had not left their houses so far for the prayer along with their houses."

Tabari 9: 82 The Messenger sent Khalid with an army of 400 to Harith [a South Arabian tribe] and ordered him to invite them to Islam for three days before he fought them. If they were to respond and submit, he was to teach them the Book of Allah, the Sunnah of His Prophet, and the requirements of Islam. If they should decline, then he was to fight them.”

I see you have avoided most of the questions being asked to you however you replied to only one and I must say that you are still not upto the mark with your reasoning. Actually , you are spamming in those posts to be precise. Some of the paragraphs are so horribly written that your posts could be shown to someone as an example of how to NOT debate. I therefore decided that I ignore them .

Mughal wrote:The question therefore is how to prove the quran is word of God? The way to prove the quran is word of God is by examining it in light of real world realities as to what it says in it and find inconsistencies within or with statements it contains about real world realities and our fidnings about realities.

I have found inconsistencies so lets reject the quran together. Check the following post where I showed you that reality is inconsistent with the claims of quran.

Mughal wrote: This is what we humans have not done yet ie we never sat down and tried and make sense of the text of the quran and the proof is there are hardly many people who know what the words used in the text of the quran mean or why they mean what they mean or how they came about to be used in the quran in the first place. We simply accepted what palace mullahs told us and started to criticise the quran instead of questioning scholarship of mullahs who tried to mislead us on behest of rulers and money lenders.

We have read the quran for ourselves without basing ourselves on mullahs and we have come to the conclusion that its not only a lie but also unfit for 21st century standards. Btw everyone on this forum thinks that you are trying to mislead people because you do not make sense. Please stop defending this stupid book and making a mockery of our intelligence. You write nonsense stuff and then later act and speak as if people are not wise to understand what you write. I am beginning to think that I am dealing with a lunatic person. There is not much one can do in such a case.

Mughal wrote:Allah has already told us that we can only live a blissful, dignified and secure life if we learn to live with each other as a complementary community of people ie by standing in for each other not standing against each other. We are told all that because Allah told us he has created us advantaged and disadvantaged so if both advantaged and disadvantaged worked as one people like a good family there is not going to be any problem. However we see that we can take advantage of each other so we go for that and that is the way of life we have adopted for our living and the results are still to come and they are not going to be encouraging for our chosen ways of life. This is why one day deen of islam will become a reality no matter how much many of us human beings detest that. This is what the quran says, so was that a coincidence?

regards and all the best.

First of all nothing of what you say is backed by quran but let me just play by what you write.. Whatever you said appears great and unparalleled to you? Ask a 15 year old kid and he too will be able to tell that and that too without reading quran. Buddy what you say is a matter of common sense and most of the human beings on this planet already know this since their childhood. This is common or ordinary knowledge. Now do you wonder why people do not take you seriously?

Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.

Mughal wrote:no matter what whoever communicates anything to anyone or anything does it to suit oneself. It is because there is always some purpose behind anyone doing anything at all. The quran is best communication possible for its purpose by its author.

From our point of view any sort of communication from god will not be up to our standard because we have no fixed standard to measure things up to nor we can have one to judge things by. It is because we are born knowing nothing at all and keep learning and keep finding new things and so there is no time when we all could agree on anything due to differences in our knowledge. One person is 100 years old already and other is just born and will take another hundred years to reach some conclusion which will be very different from the man died already after life of 100 years. It is because human beings keep adding to bank of information with time.

How much information is needed for us human beings, we cannot decide. imagine God telling us history of the world. Even if he told us names of people imagine could we carry that book? how about names of the books and all the prophets and the places he sent them to and people he sent them to. Likewise how much detail should be there in the scripture about anything at all. So we can see that all this god could do for us but could we use all that information and if we could not then what could be the point in god giving us a huge book that was useless for us anyway?

So rather than raising silly objections against the scriptures, we better educate ourselves and try and make sense of whatever little we have from god. If we were clever enough we could not be asking silly questions and wasting our time.

Sending a book knowing very well it will not be understood clearly and will cause lot of destruction was a crime committed by Allah. He is responsible for so much bloodshed on this planet, everyday there is tragedy in some part of the world because your stupid god's message was misunderstood by people who in their all honesty think they understood it right..if he can create billion galaxies was it difficult for him to say things which no one misunderstand. What kind of pathetic this final message is, that has been bringing misery to the people of this planet right from day one.

2:178

O, YOU WHO BELIEVE! RETALIATION IS PRESCRIBED FOR YOU IN CASES OF MURDER, FREE MAN FOR FREEMAN, SLAVE FOR SLAVE, FEMALE FOR FEMALE

O, YOU WHO BELIEVE! RETALIATION IS PRESCRIBED FOR YOU IN CASES OF MURDER, FREE MAN FOR FREEMAN, SLAVE FOR SLAVE, FEMALE FOR FEMALE

Can you tell me what the heck is talking about here

Don't you know iffo?. according to our friend mughal (and other decent & gullible Muslims), this sentence alone, has hidden messages of Allah, describing the universe. It is so advanced and sophisticated in its scope and meaning - only after you have read the Quran, blindly accepted every sura and every word, and (of course) also accepted Islam - then maybe you will understand the meaning of this sura,