If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Websleuths News

Join Websleuths Radio for the final discussion of THE KILLING SEASON
with Josh Zemam, Rachel Mills and special guests including Bob Kolker author of Lost Girls

I just don't see where Knox did this: Patrick was suggested to her by them, under conditions of duress for her. Mignini was under no duress with his 20 indictments which were thrown out.

What are you not seeing? Amanda accused Patick of murdering Meredith. She then voluntarily (no duress whatsoever) wrote a statement confirming this accusation and delivered it to police, calling it a "gift". For the two weeks following this "gift", Patrick was in jail. He was arrested as a direct result of her "gift". Even though she knew this was a lie, and should have understood that the arrest would ruin his life, she did nothing to assist Patrick.

One of the prosecutors illegally wire tapped police and media. I suppose we have to allow for the possibility that this same prosecutor could illegally wire tapped police and media again.

Amanda demonstrated that she does not care about how her actions impact others, and that she is quite comfortable with the knowledge that someone's life was destroyed because of her actions and statements. We know that when someone is suffering as a direct result of her actions, she will not do anything to assist. It's quite likely that Amanda's moral compass is permanently skewed and that she acted this way on more occassions than the ones that have been widely publicized.

So ... we have the possibility that the prosecutor will illegally wiretap someone and the possibility that Amanda will continue to selfishly, and without moral conscience, harm others.

I have a sister who fits this description, who has made my life hell for decades. It's called malignant narcissism. If I felt Amanda were like her, I would want them to lock her up and throw away the key. I just don't see Knox as this.

What are you not seeing? Amanda accused Patick of murdering Meredith. She then voluntarily (no duress whatsoever) wrote a statement confirming this accusation and delivered it to police, calling it a "gift". For the two weeks following this "gift", Patrick was in jail. He was arrested as a direct result of her "gift". Even though she knew this was a lie, and should have understood that the arrest would ruin his life, she did nothing to assist Patrick.

That is a particularly nasty thing to do.

IF I come to begin convinced of this version - as I have read numerous ones which show duress, guilt, being unable to retract - then perhaps I will begin to eye Amanda with less compassion. Also, she may have had reason to suspect PL, if they told her they had found a hair belonging to a black man, and if she was not there.

What are you not seeing? Amanda accused Patick of murdering Meredith. She then voluntarily (no duress whatsoever) wrote a statement confirming this accusation and delivered it to police, calling it a "gift". For the two weeks following this "gift", Patrick was in jail. He was arrested as a direct result of her "gift". Even though she knew this was a lie, and should have understood that the arrest would ruin his life, she did nothing to assist Patrick.

That is a particularly nasty thing to do.

In her written statement, didn't AK herself admit that the visions of Patrick at the cottage seemed more like a dream? I think I recall something like this, which in my mind bolsters the argument that her statement was created by the questioner's suggestion.

IF I come to begin convinced of this version - as I have read numerous ones which show duress, guilt, being unable to retract - then perhaps I will begin to eye Amanda with less compassion. Also, she may have had reason to suspect PL, if they told her they had found a hair belonging to a black man, and if she was not there.

It seems that some people are willing to overlook Amanda's horrendous lies, and her complete absence of empathy and compassion when someone is suffering as a direct result of her actions. I would not want anyone like Amanda anywhere near me, my family, or anyone I cared about. I feel the very same way about Joran van der Sloot.

You've mention duress a couple of times. How was Amanda under duress when she, sitting alone, asked for paper and pen, and then wrote a statement confirming her accusations against Patrick? How was Amanda under duress a day, or 3 days, or even 14 days later such that she could not tell investigators that she told a big fat lie about Patrick?

In her written statement, didn't AK herself admit that the visions of Patrick at the cottage seemed more like a dream? I think I recall something like this, which in my mind bolsters the argument that her statement was created by the questioner's suggestion.

Or am I getting my instances confused?

No, you are not confused. Amanda had been having visions and nightmares - very typical after one's home is broken into, and a friend murdered - she wrote that the police had "convinced me that my dreams are real."

It seems that some people are willing to overlook Amanda's horrendous lies, and her complete absence of empathy and compassion when someone is suffering as a direct result of her actions. I would not want anyone like Amanda anywhere near me, my family, or anyone I cared about. I feel the very same way about Joran van der Sloot.

You've mention duress a couple of times. How was Amanda under duress when she, sitting alone, asked for paper and pen, and then wrote a statement confirming her accusations against Patrick? How was Amanda under duress a day, or 3 days, or even 14 days later such that she could not tell investigators that she told a big fat lie about Patrick?

As I said elsewhere:
Amanda had been having visions and nightmares - very typical after one's home is broken into, and a friend murdered - she wrote that the police had "convinced me that my dreams are real." I call this duress.

In her written statement, didn't AK herself admit that the visions of Patrick at the cottage seemed more like a dream? I think I recall something like this, which in my mind bolsters the argument that her statement was created by the questioner's suggestion.

Or am I getting my instances confused?

Amanda admitted that she was drugged up on the night of the murder, and she describes her memories as "flashbacks". Drugged up "flashbacks" are usually considered to be incomplete memories of actual events; incomplete because the drugs interfered with laying down a solid memory.

Still ... what prevented Amanda from speaking the truth about Patrick after she told her mother about her horrendous lies? Nothing, as far as I can see. She had 14 days to come forward, to show compassion for a life she was destroying, but she chose to remain silent. That, in my opinion, is completely unforgiveable, and it speaks to very poor moral character.

BBM. Not exactly cross town. Her boyfriend was only a few minutes (walking distance) away.

Still, there were knives at the house where Meredith and Amanda lived - why form the intent at RS's? BTW is there something in the background suggesting three ways? AK may have been sexually active but women don't tend to suggest bringing another woman in, men do. And if they decided to try and bring Meredith in, why the knife? This concocted story has too many GINORMOUS gaps that can't be filled with the scant evidence.

__________________
Disclaimer: I have a JD, but I am not licensed to practice. Therefore, do not interpret anything contained in my posts as legal advice - they are my personal opinion only.

As I said elsewhere:
Amanda had been having visions and nightmares - very typical after one's home is broken into, and a friend murdered - she wrote that the police had "convinced me that my dreams are real." I call this duress.

From Trial Transcripts:

Prosecutor: "I stand by my statements that I made last night about events that events that could have taken place in my home with Patrick." [In Italian: "I confirm..."] Do you know what the word "confirm" means in Italian? "In the flashbacks that I'm having, I see Patrick as the murderer." There wasn't any policeman with you when you wrote that. No one. You wrote that in complete liberty. Do you know how to explain to me why? And this is even more decisive than what you said some hours earlier. Can you explain this?

Amanda admitted that she was drugged up on the night of the murder, and she describes her memories as "flashbacks". Drugged up "flashbacks" are usually considered to be incomplete memories of actual events; incomplete because the drugs interfered with laying down a solid memory.

Still ... what prevented Amanda from speaking the truth about Patrick after she told her mother about her horrendous lies? Nothing, as far as I can see. She had 14 days to come forward, to show compassion for a life she was destroying, but she chose to remain silent. That, in my opinion, is completely unforgiveable, and it speaks to very poor moral character.

Perhaps she was terrified that if she did so, they would go back to unfairly accusing her?

Prosecutor: "I stand by my statements that I made last night about events that events that could have taken place in my home with Patrick." [In Italian: "I confirm..."] Do you know what the word "confirm" means in Italian? "In the flashbacks that I'm having, I see Patrick as the murderer." There wasn't any policeman with you when you wrote that. No one. You wrote that in complete liberty. Do you know how to explain to me why? And this is even more decisive than what you said some hours earlier. Can you explain this?

Well, I cannot speak for Amanda, but if I were she, I would have said, "Since you lied to me, told me you knew I was there, told me I would be locked up for 30 years, told me the text from Patrick had great meaning, told me Raff was no longer standing up for me, when he really just admitted that while asleep he could not vouch for me also being asleep, I came to think your story about Patrick was reality."

What are you not seeing? Amanda accused Patick of murdering Meredith. She then voluntarily (no duress whatsoever) wrote a statement confirming this accusation and delivered it to police, calling it a "gift". For the two weeks following this "gift", Patrick was in jail. He was arrested as a direct result of her "gift". Even though she knew this was a lie, and should have understood that the arrest would ruin his life, she did nothing to assist Patrick.

That is a particularly nasty thing to do.

Wasn't that statement given the night Amanda was grilled by LE without the interrogation being video/audio taped?
How many times has a person "confessed" or pointed to a person in these types of pressure cooker questionings because they believe they are led to believe it is the right thing to do.... You and I say would never do something like that, but then I've never been subjected to what Amanda went through that night.

What I need is some real evidence that AK was in the room when MK was murdered.