JLR's green future

There’s a fascinating, official, insight into the future of Jaguar Land Rover buried in yesterday’s Sunday Times’ Business section.

Of the four ‘green’ projects – all supported by the government’s Technology Strategy Board - most surprising is the ‘Limo Green’ concept.

Based on the new XJ saloon, the LG is – like the Chevrolet Volt - a self-charging electric vehicle. Jaguar says the LG, which is likely to cost £500m, will be launched in 2011.

Rather than having a conventional engine and electric motors (which are both connected to the wheels in a conventional hybrid) the LG is powered primarily by its lithium-ion battery packs, which in turn drive a 170bhp electric motor and two-speed transmission.

The battery packs will be charged by a 47bhp Lotus-designed petrol engine, which runs at a constant speed to keep consumption and emissions to an absolute minimum. The LG can also be plugged into the mains for an overnight recharge.

Apparently the LG’s aluminium monocoque will be further lightened through the use of composites, so that the whole vehicle will come in at 1350kg. Early estimates suggest the LG will be good for 57mpg and 120g/km. However, the car’s exhaust will be close to completely pollutant-free, a crucial advantage for future US sales.

Expect to see an LG concept alongside the dramatic new XJ production saloon this autumn.

Also in the pipeline is the REHEV (Range Extended Electric Vehicle) project, which has already been previewed in the Land_e concept car. This sees an electric motor built into the car’s rear axle (powered by a battery pack), which can drive the car via the rear wheels in pure electric mode as well as working alongside the petrol engine in rough conditions.

This system is being worked on for the three-strong Freelander family (which will eventually include the small LRX and a new seven-seat Freelander spin-off). However, something similar is almost certainly destined for the next-generation T5 platform, which will underpin the Disco 4, Range Rover 4 and Range Rover Sport replacement.

The Sunday Times also confirms Autocar’s story that Jaguar is working on fitting a KERS (Kinetic Energy Recovery System) to future models. This takes the form of a flywheel that recovers and stores energy when the car is slowing. Jaguar says that fitted to a V6 diesel XF, fuel consumption improves by 20 per cent. Expect to see KERS on Jaguar’s cheaper models.

Finally, Jaguar says that it intends to increase the amount of recycled aluminium in its XJ and XK models from 50 to 75 percent by 2011, as part of the REAL (REcycled ALuminium) project. Interestingly the maker says that move will drive down costs to the extent that it can switch to using aluminium for its future entry-level models, which could include the XE roadster and next-gen XF.

Join the debate

I see I'm a bit late to this party but anyway... 1350kg? The XJ is an all aluminium monocoque. Strip out the electric seats and most of the gizmos, presumably use the Lotus Omnivore two-stroke, and use perhaps half the battery capacity of the Tesla Roadster. I have my doubts about a production version matching that claim but c1500kg may be possible without the price going stratospheric. Great around town and on the motorway, less so on a good B-road, unless they up the power of that Omnivore

It's funny to read all this childlike evangelism on. umm I think they call it "environmental responsibility". Horse is correct and none of your selective strawmen can change the facts.

What is it you do not understand about the commodities market for raw materials: if the recycle pool is not large to absorb a new use for a material, the virgin material will be less expensive... and necessary to increase the total size of the pool for sustainable recycling.

The Sunday Times piece is, as Horse basically says, feel-good PR fluff... a "reality distortion field"... though it's nowhere near as bad as some of the stuff that comes out of the BBC.

Oh and Horse did not even mention the battery technology, which at this time does not even exist for a practical implementation - get around more and read the electronics specialist pubs/sites. Current Lithium-ion variants do not fit and throwing money at the "problem" will not solve it and suddenly make it appear on the shelf... something which has become apparent to even GM. In case you hadn't noticed, the Volt project is in disarray.

One of the good things about (P)HEV development is that it's scared the bejezus out of the OPEC tyrants... again. The demo-models we currently have "work" but it's going to take some quantum leaps in technology before a universal solution is available... and then, eventually, the trucking industry will have to be err, tackled. Good luck with The Teamsters, in the USA anyway.

'God spare us from these idiots. Recycled aluminium? Do these people look at metal prices? Aluminium has gone from $1.50 to less than 60 cents a pound in the last six months. Sure use aluminium if you must, especially as its now relatively cheap, but why recycled? Haven't they heard, metal prices - except gold - have crashed and are unlikely to head back up. Last year people were pulling up drain covers for scrap, now you can't give away most all recyclables. Typical of planned economies - everything done counter-cyclical by halfwits, with money that's not their own.'

Any true 'green' vehicle must be recyclable to a meaningful extent to ultimately be less harmful to the environment, not just noxious emissions and energy consumption. You actually state the low price of aluminium as a bad thing. If JLR get to the point of having a complete aluminium range of cars, trust me BMW et al will follow suit. Do the sums - cheap recycled aluminium = more lighter cars at reduced cost = benefits for all. You are confused as hell, and take your self-assumed intellect way too seriously for your own good.

And I repeat again - yours was a nonsensical rant, and horsepoop at that.

Hi Mr High Horse. You can dish it out (in a third-rate kind of way), but you're psychologically incapable of receiving it. Superficially smart, you're actually from a class that people here are beginning to recognise: mediocrity."

When I used the word 'idiots' I was referring to the people at JLR discussed in HH's blog, itself based on the info from yesterday's Sunday Times piece. Idiots for having a zeal for use of a recycled commodity when that commodity's price for the new stuff has just fallen dramatically and idiots for believing that pumping out PR stuff to a friendly Fleet Street journo would be lapped up without question, particularly the weight claim for the three years away LG serial hybrid thing. This was not therefore me starting 'abuse' against any Autocar commentor. What I wrote drew the comment from Dan McNeil of 'Poor old Mr High Horse, he really is a monumental dullard' and, well, read the rest for yourself above. If you can't see that as personal and abuse, well, you and I don't share the English language.

As for fulsome answers until such time as full vetted biographies are mandatory before comment making at Autocar I chose to write directly to blogs and other articles rather than explain 'where I'm coming from'. On the day that Britain has just upped its national debt by half a trillion pounds, nearly £10,000 extra debt to be serviced and paid off by every man, woman and child, I think we've all got a bit more to worry about than commenting protocols.

Horseandcart - "As to queries, it's none of your business. I have an active mind, that's all. Is that a crime these days?"

Just curious that's all - I know it's none of my business but I do think a slightly more fulsome answer might help us understand where you're coming from. I am guessing from other comments on here that your fulsome comments are not appreciated by the majority of contributors and I was wondering if you might enlighten us all rather than just be rude to people - obviously not. I'll just ignore your posts in future.

I have to say that I agree with the horse man. Nothing wrong with a good strongly worded debate, that's how we would do it face to face afterall.

I think he's bang on about the weight issue too. There's not a hope in hell that this is going to come in anywhere near 1350kg. Think about it. Based on the XJ, which although light for its class is still a BIG saloon. Battery packs are massively heavy. Electric motors AND a small petrol engine. This thing is going to be nearer to 2000kg than 1350...

Or can someone tell me how they are going to manage to stick to 1350kg?

- another village is missing its idiot. I never said or implied anything about lighter vehicles, value judgement wise, merely the fanciful stating of the LG's weight. Your haste to indulge in your 'agreement' with the other feeble-minded condemners has denuded you of your ability to read and comprehend. As to recycling it's a general point about cost. When something is at rock bottom cost in its virgin state why the push for the recycled version? When a commodiy is expensive it may make sense to use existing stock, like paper, glass, metals and so on from an economical point of view. This was the case for a short period in 2007/8. The price of aluminium has fallen by two-thirds since then. The price difference between new and recycled Al. has narrowed majorly. That was the point I was making.

And as to 'ranting', were you brought up in an anally retentive household or something? When normal people express a view with force it does not mean a rant, it means passion, conviction, delight in robust debate. Are you frightened of people who make points with passion? Does confrontation unnerve you? Are you a man or a mouse? Would you prefer we all act and communicate like robots? What is wrong with people like you? Contrary opinion to what you regard as 'mainstream' opinion or received wisdom seems to frighten you and you react by jumping down on it. What age are you? I'd guess 25ish, young enough to be the product of a dumbed-down, controlling education system and society, where cohesiveness and 'towing the line' is more important than questing for the truth, however uncomfortable it may be. To be frank people like you genuinely scare me, as you appear like 'Stepford Wives' although probably male , probably.

Light weight should be as much a Holy Grail as alternative technologies here. What's needed is some kind of challenge (or threat) to manufacturers who are seriously into hybrid-tech; the challenge being to produce a viable and thoroughly affordable 4 seater hybrid car weighing less than 1,000 kg, and capable of not less than 100 mpg on the combined cycle. Any manufacturer unable to demonstrate due commitment to the cause won't be eligible for any future spondoolies if they subsequently scream that they're going bust. Also, this car must be capable of transporting its top-hat wearing occupants and a basket of eggs across a ploughed field...