If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

This thread is chock full of proof that Yankees fans don't really want to embrace metrics. The Yankees FO made (my opinion, a smart move) a smart decision to make the catcher a defensive position again. And they did some research and are benefitting from it. However, because the guy is batting .197, Yankees fans see him as absolute garbage.

Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

Originally Posted by snapple

This thread is chock full of proof that Yankees fans don't really want to embrace metrics. The Yankees FO made (my opinion, a smart move) a smart decision to make the catcher a defensive position again. And they did some research and are benefitting from it. However, because the guy is batting .197, Yankees fans see him as absolute garbage.

The problem is there are many indicators above and beyond the pitch framing study that show Martin has pretty much been garbage this year and not just offensively.

He already has 4 PBs, 2 short of his career high set in 2008 when he caught 149 games.
His 27 WPs in 66 games (.41/g) are 15% above his career aveage rate (.35/g).
His 23% CS is worst of his career and only the 2nd time he's been below league average.

And others have already questioned this stat but I'll throw it out there anyway cERA stweart - 2.96, Martin 4.03.

He may still be framing the ball well but that seems to be the only thing he's doing right this year.

Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

Originally Posted by snapple

This thread is chock full of proof that Yankees fans don't really want to embrace metrics. The Yankees FO made (my opinion, a smart move) a smart decision to make the catcher a defensive position again. And they did some research and are benefitting from it. However, because the guy is batting .197, Yankees fans see him as absolute garbage.

It's perfectly possible to embrace "metrics" (just a fancy words for stats) without embracing them uncritically. Just because there's a metric doesn't make it important or even valuable, even if you embrace the concept.

A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.

Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper

I do think pitch framing is a skill and a valuable one at that. I just dispute that it is worth 70 runs over a 3 year period.

I can't prove or discredit it, but I also can't count how many times I watched Posada not even try to frame a pitch, or drop what should have been a called strike, and that led to bad news on the scoreboard. 70 runs over a 3 year period actually doesn't sound all that shocking to me.

Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

Originally Posted by JL25and3

It's perfectly possible to embrace "metrics" (just a fancy words for stats) without embracing them uncritically. Just because there's a metric doesn't make it important or even valuable, even if you embrace the concept.

It's also interesting to me to disentangle pitch framing from a catcher's overall defensive value. It's clearly not the only thing a catcher does that adds or subtracts from his defensive value.

"Welcome to NYYFans, the place where Yankees fans come together to complain about the manner in which our team is winning games" -- Mr. Coffee

Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper

The problem is there are many indicators above and beyond the pitch framing study that show Martin has pretty much been garbage this year and not just offensively.

He already has 4 PBs, 2 short of his career high set in 2008 when he caught 149 games.
His 27 WPs in 66 games (.41/g) are 15% above his career aveage rate (.35/g).
His 23% CS is worst of his career and only the 2nd time he's been below league average.

And others have already questioned this stat but I'll throw it out there anyway cERA stweart - 2.96, Martin 4.03.

He may still be framing the ball well but that seems to be the only thing he's doing right this year.

I bet he'd look a hell of a lot worse if he didn't frame the way he does.