>>2455957I'm just kinda fiddling around and trying to learn how to actually design maps. I really like smaller maps with lots of inter-connectivity, so I can probably make it both DM and single-player orientated.

>>2455968That's always the best way to start out with mapping. My first map was a small theater like deathmatch level.

>>2455973I agree as well. Those maps have the most replay value because of all it's different ways to reach the exit. Alltough making those aren't my strongest points. My maps usually end up being to linear

>>2455951Hey anon! Just played through it on GZDoom on UV, it's pretty good thus far. I really liked the descent into the foggy abyss, and the new Decorate monsters were pretty good. Near the yellow key closet I think there was an actor with missing sprites? Also, I'd recommend changing the Barons into Hell Knights, Baron's are just damage-sponges.

I kind of like it though, I like the opening house a lot actually. Keep working on it, I'd like to see the finished product!

Yes it will be. This is horrible misinformation. DOOM 4 is going to be streamed during the Bethesda conference on June 14. Stop spreading this lie.

The only things that aren't being streamed are the stage demos that will occur later during E3 on Bethesda's show floor. They'll probably let journalists stream and record those instead of doing it themselves.

>>2456004Thanks for playing through it! I'll have a look at the missing sprite thing. Most Barons are Hell Knights on lower difficulities, but if you recommend replacing a few on UV, I'll switch a couple around.

>>2455973Testing with PrBoom+, aiming for at least complevel 9, but I'd like to be able to get it to run in complevel 2.

Also thanks! I'm thinking of maybe making 5 or so maps and then putting it out for critique.

>>2455983I find the best way to kick the linearity is to make a fairly linear level, but then put in windows to other areas that the player can hop through, or hallways connecting previously separate areas.

>>2455979The level design of Chex's Quest is pretty solid and very diverse. Especially in Episode 2 and 3. I'd definitely give it a playthrough, atleast once. Just download Chex Quest 3, which is technically the full version of Chex Quest with all three episodes, and runs on the latest ZDoom.

>>2456081I've only played episode 1 myself, but didn't like it. It suffers from the areas all looking similar and just general blandness. The actual flow of the maps isn't the worst, but it's far from D1 imo.

>>2456095Yeah, I can understand that. It's the weaker one of the list, and could get you bored after seeing another storage room, but the layout was pretty on par with Doom. The later episode are a lot better quality wise.

>>2456094the news post is shitting all over brutal doom and mark because the creator of the website knows mark can't answer because, being the creator of the website, the implied threat is 'I will ban you if you reply to this thread'>>2456083top kekthe people that play brutal doom, even if they only came to the threads because of brutal doom getting an update just now, are far more than the thread regularsface it, these are Brutal Doom's threads now

DemonSteele can't be played with Brutal Doom, which is unsurprising to anyone who knows not to load two gameplay mods together. This clearly means Terminus is jealous because ????Doomworld posting about Brutal Doom's release means it is damage control for Terminus because I don't even fucking know.

>>2456150>This clearly means Terminus is jealous because ????because rather than spend 5 minutes putting a notice in the readme he labored for days to photoshop and code in the golden revenents, probably whinging to himself about how this will totally rekt all those people for daring to enjoy another (better) gameplay mod

>>2456158it is a personal affront to their mod, which means it is a conspiracy

i mean, come on, >>2456145 is suggesting that mark is forbidden of replying to news of his own mod, which is patently wrong.yesterday he was saying mark is banned, so i guess they just have to make things up.

>>2456190Having both replacements of everything coexistant and being able to choose between Doomguy and Hae-lin would be kind of neat, but I recognise that would require an absolutely unlikely and unreasonable amount of rewriting.

...just having a Demonsteele'd version of Doomguy would be cool though, in the distant magic future where all things happen.

Swinging around a chainsaw and bisecting demons like a sword would be rad, but yeah, it'd involve rewriting both mods.As I said yesterday, I'd like to see a Brutal DemonSteele patch just to see what it'd be like and what people could do with it, but simply stacking two mods together would never feasibly work.

>>2456165Because that would require an awful shit ton of work, obviously.Due to the way both mods work, he'd have to either

1) incorporate all of the BD decorate and ACS features in his mod, which is basically stealing, and would make his mod to not be an original mod, beside having to understand how Mark's code work, which is really hard due to it's structure, and preventing BD's functions affecting Demonsteele's gameplay, which is easier said then done

2) incorporate all of HIS mod into BDs decorate and ACS which would basically require him to develop the same mod twice, without any gurantees that it will work, and the result will be basicaly another iteration of BD. He'll have to make 2 mods instead of one, and one of those mods would not really be his in the end.

3) Implementing same features BD has in DS, in his own way, which would require to: use functions and assets from BD (note that while Mark used a lot of other people's work in his mod, he also used a lot of his own frankenspriting and edits, so that would require Term to ask for their use if he'd want to), and would invite HATRED from BD fanbabies who will definitely shout that Term is stealing Mark's work, even if Term would get permission from Mark to use the aforementioned assets.

Option number 3 is the only one that would allow DS to remain the mod of Terminus and not a mashup of BD with something else. And that option would invite hell from BD's fanbase, which is totally not worth the effort.

So somebody else would have to go with option 3, requesting permissions from both Term and Mark, and the end result would be a mashup he can't take full credit for. That would require the brave person in question to have affection for both mods, will and skill to make them compatible, which is I'm almost sure are mutually exclusive.

>>2456201See, though, here's the thing. Both mods are balanced around their own weapon and monster sets. You can't have Hae-Lin up against Brutal Doom monsters, the zombies alone would ruin everything. And I'd like to see Brutal Doomguy even try to fight the Blackened. Even if you're okay with throwing balance totally out the window, then you still have to account for the fact that both mods have additional systems that are again dependent on their monsters - Hae-Lin can't gain combo rank or souls from non-Demonsteele monsters, and Brutal Doomguy can't do fatalities or get cruelty bonuses on non-Brutal Doom monsters. Modding just doesn't work the way people seem to think it does.

>>2456214What you are attempting to explain is something I already understood, and was entailed in the recognition that it would require an absolutely unlikely and unreasonable amount of rewriting, but a genuine thank you for expounding on that in my stead.

>>2456217Not advanced. Unnecesary complicated. It's literary a Rube Goldberg Machine of coding. Rewriting it from ground up would be easier, but that also would immediately get you accused of stealing Mark's limelight.

the thing about reading someone else's code is that you only see 20% of it. the other 80% is a complex mental model inside the author's head which no-one else ever sees. this is why it's easier to rewrite something from scratch than understand existing code.

>>2456201>>2456253Oh and there's actually an examle of two mods developed specifically to work together - DoomRLA and kyle's rpg mod. And that's because of an extremely close partnership and enormous effort of their respective creators. It's not something you can assume.

>>2456250SE is supposed to be more "compatible" with other stuff because of more competent use of inheritances, but inheritances won't help if the heir replaces same state parent has, which is the main problem here - you'd have to make same states to do both DS things and BD things at once, which would require rewriting the code.

>>2456276That's it? That's all? So the only thing you'd need to modify for a compat patch are two irrelevant actors, one automatically spawned every time someone bleeds and one that isn't given to the player by default in the first place?

And people are seriously angry about this? This isn't even protection! This is just "learn to mod" 101!

>>2455193Anybody? We both have the 227i patch for Unreal Gold, and I've read that saving and loading multiplayer matches is possible, but the game just isn't having it. Using the savegame command from the server console crashes the server.

>>2456250>two gameplay overhaul mods that both replace every actor, each in their own wayHow in the fuck would you ever make these compatible with each other without completely rewriting both of them from the ground up?

>>2456315Yeah. Plasma rifle speed projectile, fired at about half the speed. I'm probably going to slow it down more and make it do more damage though instead. My plasma rifle already acts pretty similarly.Right now it doesn't use any ammo either, and I think I'm gonna change that...

>>2456352Consider making it shoot bouncing projectiles; those are always fun. If your engine of choice is gzdoom you can consider using model projectiles too (consisting of two flat planes and a single png texture, bd has one you can "borrow" and edit.)

a very nicely made green stone castle map, and fun to run around once memorized. somewhat inscrutable before that, though.*

very few monsters, and a nonlinear layout means you can miss one or two quite easily when pushing for time. the secrets are also a little bit pointless.

still, i liked this one. i'm pretty sure there's another version of it too, that's larger and has a cyberdemon in the inner chamber, but i may be remembering a different map.

____* hint: to get in the front way, push on the front of one of the skull pillars, but i prefer going round the back for the chaingun. but it needs straferunning, which i doubt the author had in mind at the time it was made.

>Real Programmers don't write specs -- users should consider themselves lucky to get any programs at all, and take what they get.

>Real Programmers don't write application programs, they program right down on the bare metal. Application programming is for feebs who can't do system programming.

>Real Programmers don't eat quiche. They eat Twinkies. And Szechwan food. (Do not go to eat Szechwan food with a group of Real Programmers unless you are prepared to argue bitterly over the last spring roll.)

>Real Programmers' programs never work right the first time. But if you throw them on the machine they can be patched into working in "only a few" 30-hour debugging sessions.

>>2456095CQ1 is worth playing for novelty only, 2 and 3 actually stand up to Doom, besides texture repetition and such.

>Chex, a boring ass cereal>makes a genuinely entertaining and well crafted game for free>I mean obviously they intended to make money by the marketing boost from it>but seriously we should've encouraged this somehow

>>2456616A bunch of really cool artists and photoshoppers who the Designated OP, Tyrant of the Thread has chained in his basement work tirelessly to produce quality OP images for the enjoyment of us all.

Because it's driving me up the wall that I finally got Doomseeker to place nice with my router, but now half the shit I want to play with my husbando doesn't work with 2.0. (DoomRL, BDJ, even SmoothDoom. Come on!)

>>2457302>find something better than DOORYEL to put on the key pillaryeah, I realized thatwas probably going to see if I could Quake-ify the door side textures anyway it so they didn't stick out so horribly

>looking for a midi version of Them Bones by Alice in Chains.>Download one from some random midi site>Some chucklefuck literary uploaded the background music from Barrels O' Fun from Doom 2 as a midi version of Them Bones.

I had a heartly laugh at that, and it's the best midi version there is of that track anyway.

>new doom supports WAD's, up to GZDoom-based ones>new doom as bonus has full DOOM and DOOM 2 remade for newgen>new doom has key to change the side you're holding weapon - including classic, on the middle

>>2457464nope, i've been spoiled by too many years of the engine being free software. i won't go back to the bad old days of fighting with software because of not being able to read and/or tinker with the source at leisure.

>>2457758Switch/cases don't have anything to do with actual switches in doom. What you want to do is click your linedef and set it up like in my image, and in the associated script (script 1 in this case) you just stick the Print(s: command and whatever platform manipulation you want.

>>2457796yw anon. Lurk around the tutorial articles on the zdoom wiki to learn more about ACS, or look up the code examples provided with many of the actions specials and functions. If you wish to do anything more than multi-function switches at least.

>>2458062>Engine wise they're much, much more advanced.They have more features, sure, but I don't think Build has aged quite so gracefully. Even in EDuke32 the game feels really janky, especially regarding projectile hit detection. RPG shots seem to just harmlessly pass through the enemy sprite about half the time. Doors are a bigger threat than most of the enemies, who have a tendency to go completely retarded and get stuck on simple geometry. I've even seen that happen to flying enemies, which doesn't even make sense. Overall, it feels like idtech1 was built to run a kickass game and run it well, while Build is just MAKE MOAR FEATURES with little regard for whether the end result actually plays well or not. The level design and character are what just barely saves Duke from being in the same camp as Tekwar and Witchaven.

>>2457992Blood and Duke tied and then Shadow Warrior. All are excellent however you can't go wrong.

I've played Blood the most by far though. When I was reintroduced to it from /vr/ all these years later I replayed the campaign back to back like three or four times. I just couldn't stop playing it. I think I've replayed its standalone campaign more than any other single player game in my life. There's competition from Dark Souls but that also has to do with the online multiplayer so that adds to its replayability.

Blood's weaponplay is home to the most satisfying gunplay I've experienced in any FPS ever. The weapons are just so fucking fun to shoot, especially with their alt fire modes, and goddamn I love the dynamite.

>>2458348Bretty gud for a first map. >Anybody wanna give me some tips on monster placement?Those demons at the lower level don't do much.

Anyway, use monsters according to their role in combat to make exciting fight where the player has to adapt to the circumstances. I think tormentor667 or someone else wrote a great essay on that. Once you know what different monster types do under certain circumstances, it's up to you to shape the kind of gameplay you like with them and level geometry. Personally I'm a big fan of really interconnected levels and using lower-tier enemies in an intelligent way to pose a threat rather than plutonia-style skellington armies and chaingunner ambushes. A nice trick with multi-path levels is having monsters chase you from several rooms away, making it a bit unpredictable where and when you'll be attacked by them.

>>2458348>Anybody wanna give me some tips on monster placement?well it's more of an art than a science but

- initial attackers, guys on the floor in the room you just entered who immediately see you and come towards you

- snipers/guards, guys who see you but are fixed in place in positions harder to aim at

- ambushers, guys you don't see immediately but come in later as you advance into a room, in alcoves or behind doors or whatever

- triggered traps, monsters in closets or off-map teleporters, this is a subset of ambushers but also kind of distinct as they're not just placed in a room but need linedefs being triggered to appear.

balance these groups along with obstacles or environmental hazards. obviously you don't need to use all four in every encounter and certain monsters work better in certain groups than others (demons are not good snipers duh! but i mean more subtle things like arachnotrons being more of a threat at range)

For "must play", when introducing people to Doom, I tend to show off stuff that pushes the engine to its limits and does crazy stuff. So things like Psychic, Demonsteele, DoomRLA, Zen Dynamics, Reelism, Metrood, etc.

>>2458348all right now having actually played it i (>>2458413) think you've not done a lot wrong, i agree with >>2458407 about the two demons by the lift, and i also think the blue key teleporter squad needs to have more than one destination (as everything at that point was coming from one direction) but otherwise you've got a good evenly distributed mix of monsters that attack immediately and monsters in waiting and such, along with height differences, interconnection, a coherent texture theme and all that good stuff.

>>2458517Asylum of the wretched (linked to it before ITT) manages to though. And I mean in F.E.A.R you're an invincible super soldier and the game's nearly impossible to not breeze through for an experienced fps player, but that manages to be spoopy too (the first playthrough anyway).

>>2458630Well it's probably that I haven't dome much with it, but it seems much harder to retrieve, use and store data. One thing I'd like to implement if only for the sake of it for example are projectiles that inherit the XYZ velocity of the actor firing them on top their usual forward momentum. I haven't the faintest clue how I'd do that in decorate, while in ACS that'd be much simpler.

sup /vr/oombeen getting back into DRPG after a while of not playing itwhat's the level event with the chest that spawns near you and you can open it?the indicators that appear on screen don't change after i open it, they just remain static. is this supposed to happen or have i fucked with the settings too much

Been playing the new version of Brutal Doom on the new realism mode, doing a doom2.wad run. One of the features of the mode is a decreased runspeed, which as it turns out makes certain jumps impossible without noclipping. Liking the mode otherwise though, very punishing.

I've been playing it a lot too, and honestly the only thing i'd really rebalance about Realism is the enemy aggressiveness. It gets real fucking annoying that every single ranged enemy immediately starts firing the moment I come into their sight.

>>2458854>>2458861>>2458870Actually, I am working on a Berserk mod (which is what the weapon sprites are for) - it's just really slow because i wanna make sure everything looks good. Someone's already volunteered to help with it and do the coding stuff.

Was working on the crossbow and Dragonslayer this morning, both of which are getting bretty close to being finished.

>>2458915no prob, been working on-and-off on starting this up for a while now>>2458912(also i know this is on the wrong side of the screen since it's on his left hand, i just flip back and forth when working for composition's sake)

>>2458948>Actually broke the renderer, as of now it is still impossible because of how fast it goes.

So it's impossible to play, and no one plays it.

So it's ded.

Metrood was gonna have some maps and shit, but once that fell out, the project was set aside, it's true that Samus is pretty much finish but I feel like Term had bigger plans, had he not gotten dicked over, they would have been achieved.

>>2458958Its not impossible to play, i once hosted a Cyberrunner server and everyone had fun. Problem is that if you reach a bigass speed you will go Event Horizon mode. And Metroid on the technical side, is finished, everything is there. The only thing it needs is sprites.> I feel like Term had bigger plans, had he not gotten dicked over, they would have been achieved.If you're referring to the E-mail that Terminus got from Nintendo, it was just a "we are watching you" letter. And Nintendo probably forgot about this mod because of the lack of updates. (Besides, Nintendo can't do much, if its a free project without any profit, they can't C&D it and they cannot claim anything regarding dipping out stuff from their games as every sound and even the sprites are made from scratch)

Terminus plans for the mod were pretty much killed because everyone who said they were making maps and to an extent, sprites for the Arm cannon did not delivered and the only one who was making a single player map had its HDD killed.

>>2459008No...., if i know Terminus well, is that he can't into mapping or spriting, only coding and consider one important thing, Metroid Dreadnought was mean to be a PvP mod and its complete but nobody plays it.

The maps were a secondary thing that could be added later, same as new sprites. And by the time he was waiting for the stuff he made Demonsteele and everyone knows who became the boss' favorite toy.

Yeah, he's not much for spriting or mapping, but it can still be a severe buzzkill when someone comes up to you and says "your mod is cool, I want to make shit for it" so you get prepared for this stuff and then said person's hard drive explodes and then falls off the face of the earth, you're left with a bad taste in your mouth.

Slow. I haven't touched my mod in the past week between being on vacation and getting ready to get back into the swing of things, and I ain't starting on Kustam til the monsters are done. Admittedly all that's left is to grab some sprites for the Cyberdemon replacement (Yholl was awesome and gave him top tier behavior), make a new archie, replace the masterminds, and the fatsos.

There's still some online quirks I want to hammer out too but fucked if I know how I'm gonna fix those

1: Release early, release often. Don't release a near-finished build without anything else to bolster it, because people are gonna play it and go "What now?" and all you can do is "Well that's it!".2: Don't rely on people to do stuff you can't do yourself, which sounds a lot more cynical than it really is. The big thing to keep in mind is that nobody is as dedicated to your project as you are, and for a lot of people this is simply a hobby that they kick back and do in their spare time for fun. They might get interested in something else or stop having fun or run out of spare time--and by having a massive chunk of development dependent entirely on their work, it means if something happens or if they're unable to deliver, that avenue is completely cut off.

This doesn't mean, of course, that you shouldn't accept anyone who offers to help, but it does mean that you should always have a backup "just in case" plan, so development doesn't grind to a halt.

this was mostly a first attempt, i had played the unfinished version (>>2457302). some final thoughts:

- good job with the texturing in general and the replacements for door track colours.

- as you can see in the demo i got pretty lost. while i appreciate that you don't want to spoonfeed the correct route to the player, the fact is it's a switch quest that is mostly totally open, every branch is available from the outset, and you can mostly clear out a branch without being able to reach the point of it (the switch/key at the end). compounded by closet traps opening before the thing they're protecting is available (revenant closet by yellow key opened but i still couldn't get the key)

- having to step gingerly around a box of shells in the middle of a corridor, because if i touched it i would waste most of it, is pretty annoying: please place pickups where they can be avoided more easily.

>>2459532Hey, Project M is still a thing (Nintendo is butthurt about it, they ban anyone on Miiverse who mentions it) but they don't C&D it, so i don't see why something that's smaller (Metrood) should get C&D'd.

>>2459826You could set up WASD if you wanted to. Probably wasn't that common since it hadn't yet been established as any sort of standard, although Ultima Underworld did use something similar.>w/s to run/walk forward>a/d for turning>z/c for strafing>x for backwards

Quick question if I may, does anyone know if there's a Blood source port knocking around anywhere? I want to play it without it it being in potatovision, preferably with controller support. I realise I may be asking a lot but any help would be great

>>2460084>>2460076"One of the best Doom mods to be inspired by the works of Albert Camus. Really brings home the total distance there is between all people, men and women, imps and demons, and the futility of communication. For what are we communicating but the fact of our inability to communicate? Ultimately however there is hope; WildWeasel believes that we can change, after all, albeit that we may not survive the transformation."Dunno what's messed up with your browser, do you not have Javascript enabled?

>>2460084.One of the best Doom mods to be inspired by the works of Albert Camus. Really brings home the total distance there is between all people, men and women, imps and demons, and the futility of communication. For what are we communicating but the fact of our inability to communicate? Ultimately however there is hope; WildWeasel believes that we can change, after all, albeit that we may not survive the transformation.

That review. That review that makes it sound like the wad was made by the Gods of Doom themselves. Strange that It isn't showing.

>>2460084>One of the best Doom mods to be inspired by the works of Albert Camus. Really brings home the total distance there is between all people, men and women, imps and demons, and the futility of communication. For what are we communicating but the fact of our inability to communicate? Ultimately however there is hope; WildWeasel believes that we can change, after all, albeit that we may not survive the transformation.

>>2459813>whats the point if you can't mouselook?have you tried turning quickly with the keyboardshit's awfulpeople ended up using TSR utilities that would let the player immediately flip their direction at a press of a key if they didn't have a mouse

although, you still needed to run a utility like novert to get semi-modern mouse control back in the day (since in Doom, forward/backward movements with the mouse also moved the player, and as far as I know, it was designed for trackballs)

>>2459638map's designed for that, like pretty much any vanilla Doom 1&2 map, and he recorded a .lmp, so he's running vanilla or in Chocolate, neither of which support vertical mouselook (since they'd vertically auto-aim anyway)I played it with just buttons though, just to make sure it was reasonable, though.

>>2459737If you burstfire the chaingun, it's completely accurate (which he did)I usually use the standard shotgun there.

>>2459654>good job with the texturing in general and the replacements for door track colours.Thanks. Mostly just used textures that it wouldn't look terrible if they didn't align perfectly, and any issues I really noticed, I fixed. Spent a little bit of time after trying to vary things up a bit, there was a lot more unadorned tech wall earlier.

>as you can see in the demo i got pretty lostyeah, even I got mildly confused (although, it's easy enough to figure out with a quick glance at the automap)I should move the revenant trap to trigger when you do actually get to the switch that lowers the key or maybe even when you pick up the key, and trigger a different trap for the switch that opens up the the one that lowers the platform)

>having to step gingerly around a box of shells in the middle of a corridor, because if i touched it i would waste most of it, is pretty annoying: please place pickups where they can be avoided more easily.Yeah, I moved it to the side, I noticed that in a playthrough just after uploading it, heh.

Classic Doom /was/ scary. It's hard to translate that into modern spooks when you have source ports where you fly around like a crank-infused Cheetah with dead accurate mouse aim and full speed strafing.

As for making Doom spooky, I'd take a lot of pages out of PSX and 64. Assuming we can't do sprite edits, that means major things would be:>Ambient music>Excessive use of colored lighting>Bonus for abusing lightmap textures>If the monsters are going to be slow, slow down Doomguy excessively>If monsters are going to remain fast (at least fastmonster or faster), let Doomguy keep his world records>Definitely modify weapon and monster sounds across the board. At the cheapest, just recycle PSX Doom's.>etc

Modern ports allow you to do a lot of cool tricks. I know I said it last thread, but rc-dc (reconstruction deconstruction) was a great little bite-sized map I played through recently that made use of said features. It's music really helped.

>>2460342Don't gloss over sound design either. Sticking some reverb in the level along with some creepy ambient sound goes a long way.

Anyway years ago when I was playing around in decorate with this tomb themed map I was working on, I made a +stealth monster that made that blood curdling alternate player death scream when they attacked. Even though I made the map myself those things made me shit my pants.

>>2460418>What reasons would you use the normal Shotgun over Double Shotgun?ammo conservation: ssg is overkill for many of the smaller types of monsters since the sg will already one-shot them, and a map may have very low amounts of shells available currently. also range, the sg remains effective at a longer range than the ssg.

>Same goes for fists and chainsaw (excluding berserk pack)the chainsaw sticks you to monsters. i remember one map recently where i reached the end with next to no health and no ammo at all, and there was still one baron left alive. so i finished it off with the unpowered fist rather than risk damage from chainsawing a monsters with a very low pain chance.

>pistol and chaingunagain, ammo conservation: if one is severely limited in ammunition the pistol can fire one shot at a time but the chaingun will always fire at least two. obviously this only matters in a situation with an incredibly severe ammunition shortage, but it does happen.

>>2460418>What reasons would you use the normal Shotgun over Double Shotgun?It's slightly, vaguely better against mancubi if you're low on health and there's no cover, because it has very little chance of getting off a shot. Other than that it's mainly for ammo conservation against imps and zombiemen, or for whittling anything down at a distance.

Fists and pistol on the other hand are completely overshadowed.>What would you do to balance this out?Seriously? I'd just have the player start with a shotgun so they don't have to resort to the pistol basically ever. It's no fun. If you really want to balance the shotty and supershotty out I'd nerf the SSG to do 200% rather than 300% of the normal shotguns damage.

>>2460438>because it has very little chance of getting off a shotI mean with between the fire rate*pellet amount and pain chance of the mancubus. The ssg is slow enough that the fatty retaliates between reloads sometimes.

>>2460438>People who think balancing the SSG by dropping it's damage to 2x the SG's damage is a good ideaDropping it's damage output to 2x make it as pointless as the pistol because of it's spread and firing rate.

SSG is OP like crazy but overnerfing it makes it completely pointless.

I love when people pretend using mouse with Doom is not how it was originally played. Wolf3D supported mouse movement and people used it. If you used inferior controls that doesn't make you more authentic. I almost exclusively play the vanilla wads in Chocolate and it's fast and frantic. The game DOES look more scary though, the low red environments and lower lightning changes the look quite a bit. Experiencing Chocolate is something everyone should do, I think, just don't give me this "mouse is overpowered" crap.

>>2460467There is no tactical advantages to the SSG.SSG is pretty much quite literally there just for the damage.Remove the damage and the SG beats it out in every way.

>Less pause between shots so monsters flinch more consistently>Highly accurate and is pretty much guaranteed to not waste any pellets>Looks sexy>SSG's damage removal either means less pellets(Becomes worse at flinching monsters) or same number of pellets(Spread is fuckawful and now without the damage)

Not to mention that if we're talking Doom 1 balance we'd have to ignore all the great monsters Doom 2 added.

>>2460438>>2460446I think the ssg could be balanced by either dropping the pellet count per shot from 20 to like 15 or 16 or alternatively upping the regular shotty's count to 8-10 pellets per shot. Since the ssg's fire rate is slightly more than half the regular shotty's rate, the damage output per minute would still be bigger, but there would be bigger motivation to switch between the two depending on the situation.

Chainsaw glues you to enemies. It's meant to be a straight upgrade, but it can be dangerous because it takes some control away from you with how randomly you get nabbed around.

Pistol's a joke unless you're in some kind of insane ammo-conserving moment, but it'd have to be really bad. Chaingun is dead accurate on the first bap, but fires two shots.

SG has no vertical spread over the SSG. In rare cases, this makes it a good sniper/ammo conserve when you're low/out of ammo for other guns and you need to take care groups of enemies. The no vertical spread means it's semi-reliable at medium range whereas the SSG is not. SG is also a more conservative gun to use when you're storming down halls of weak trash rather than wasting double shells.

There's nothing wrong with upgrades.

A system like HD's where you can fire the SG as fast as you can remember to pump it with secondary fire would make it more efficient than the SSG at groups.

>>2460548even if SSG had same damage ratio as shotgun in Doom 1 it would have had an advantage in certain situations, since there were plenty of places that had shotgunners two abreast, and shooting them before they shoot you is pretty much the only way to deal with them.

>>2460418Things that are a bit far away are always better hit with the normal shotgun (the SSG spread is hilarious), normal shotgun can one shot some enemies (so you can conserve ammo, SSG eats it up), it shoots more rapidly, so you can interrupt enemies more (although killing them faster with the SSG can be a better option).

Pistol doesn't really have a use with the chaingun being a thing. Chainsaw is much better than non-berserk fist in just about every situation.

I wish the non-berserk fist did a bit more damage though, there should be SOME reason to use it.at least most levels do have a berserk pack

>>2460597> it would have had an advantage in certain situations, since there were plenty of places that had shotgunners two abreast, and shooting them before they shoot you is pretty much the only way to deal with them.Chaingun would do it faster and more efficient.

Also Shotgunners do not take 7 pellets to kill, they take 3.The SG would still win out in this situation unless they are just far enough for the spread to not line up.

And in that case it would actually be just as likely to strafe and shoot to line them up rather than relying on a now weakened SSG for anything.

>>2460552Even if you tone down the SSG the Chaingun will make the SG pretty irrelevant because it has an underappreciated DPS.

And buffing the shotgun to 8 pellets would make it kill Pinkies consistently with two shots instead of sometimes taking 3.But buffing it to 10 makes the SG better than the SSG.

>>2455934How am I supposed to finish the Doom 2 level "Barrels of Fun" without dying with Brutal Doom?No matter what I do one barrel always manages to go off. I think its the retarded friendly space marines that shoot the barrels.