Sparrow those rules are TFF rules. If you want to stay in TFF community you have to obey them. There was no reason to provoke any member of this forum. You do this many times. If you think that the rules are shit then you have no place in here.

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This was the quoted rule... "Behaviour; 1. Treat others with the respect that you would want and expect from others."

As for the actual subject of this poll, until they can create a study which consistently proves the paranormal existence via the scientific method, I don't believe. Even if I saw one with my own eyes, if it can't be proven, I'm more likely to dismiss it as insanity than anything else... I wouldn't mind if they existed, though. I've always wanted to live in a world of magic, and I think souls are pretty magical.

Do i need to remind you that there is a part of the science that is called Psychology?

Human = body + soul.

What i m saying is that souls survive. ( so i don't believe in ghosts but i do believe in souls)

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All you're doing is playing with semantics.

For a soul, if there was such a thing, to survive beyond the death of the host body it would need to break all the known laws that govern our Universe. So I ask again, by what means does a soul transcend the physical laws of the Universe? If a soul exists within the human experience surely there is a process in which it crosses over to another plain of being. What is that process?
Whenever an exchange of energy occurs there is a formula that explains that event. What formula or equation explains organic life transcending, or transmuting itself to a nonorganic form while maintaining consciousness?

And Psychology is nothing more than the study of the mind... it's a scientific discipline grounded in science and observation.

For a soul, if there was such a thing, to survive beyond the death of the host body it would need to break all the known laws that govern our Universe. So I ask again, by what means does a soul transcend the physical laws of the Universe? If a soul exists within the human experience surely there is a process in which it crosses over to another plain of being. What is that process?
Whenever an exchange of energy occurs there is a formula that explains that event. What formula or equation explains organic life transcending, or transmuting itself to a nonorganic form while maintaining consciousness?

And Psychology is nothing more than the study of the mind... it's a scientific discipline grounded in science and observation.

Human = organic mass

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I m not playing with semantics i use semantics as ancient Greeks did. You see, you tell me that Psychology is nothing more than the study of mind. I tell you that Psychology is a greek word and it means the study of soul. Psychology = Soul + Speech (Ψυχολογία = Ψυχή + Λόγος) Psychology examines the state and the behavior of the soul that is strickly connected with mind. So there is a science in human universe that is searching the souls. That lead us to the point that there is soul after all and it is accepted as a fact by the human community. ( if you still doubt i can link you psycology books including the last book of my uncle who was professor of Psychology in Ludwig Maximillian univercity of Munich. I believe that you can find new things in those books.)

You are asking me a question about how the souls cross to another plain of being. You need a process. Ancient greeks gave an answer that through death the souls are realised from the body and cross to another plains of existance. (Homer poet of Iliad and Odyssey, wroted that as well in 5000bc while Achilles and Ajax died, Aristotle also spoke about soul in the book of De Anima in latins or Peri psyche in ancient greeks). Many Greeks and Latins spoke about the existance of soul and gave examples of every day life. Those writings were the results of observation of human spirit in the last moments of life while the death process was on the way. That answer is also a fact that was used by Freud and the rest Europeans psychologists.

And Sparrow before you make a definition of a science again , learn first what the word of each science means. Cause Psychology is not the study of mind. Tell that to a Psychology professor and he will tell you that you are not so well informed.

To the subject now. Science accepts the existance of soul by Psychology and Religion also accepts the existance of soul. Both do not accept the existance of ghosts.

...Unless my text books are vastly incorrect, as is my psychology teacher, the dictionary, and google, psychology is the scientific study of the human mind and of behavior...

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Saeriel i gave the definition of Psychology read my text carefully. If your books give a definition that psychology is the study of human mind and of behavior then is incorrect yes. And if your teacher use this definition then he is incorrect as well. And google is also incorrect, many academic scientists found mistakes in the web everyday!You see in science when you study a part of human being or a situation or physics or whatever else, you must start from the beggings of human observation. The first and pioneers who spoke about Psychology were the ancient Greeks. They gave to this science the name. You know why English language borrowed that from greek language cause they couldn't invent a better word to describe the science that examines the human soul that is strickly connected to the mind. Cause Psychology is studying the soul using mind methods. Its wrong to say that is the science that study the mind only, cause the mind is the way to understand the soul. The ultimate goal for this science is the soul. For physics is the natural phainomens. To do that physics use the natural laws. So you can tell that physics study the natural laws.... cause natural laws is the instrument, while the natural phainomens are the goal. Same in Psychology.

Ask your Psychology teacher to give you a definition of Psychology. Then you can speak to him about the name of the science which is soul and speech. Question him. You will find out if he/ she is a good teacher or not...

I m not playing with semantics i use semantics as ancient Greeks did. You see, you tell me that Psychology is nothing more than the study of mind. I tell you that Psychology is a greek word and it means the study of soul. Psychology = Soul + Speech (Ψυχολογία = Ψυχή + Λόγος) Psychology examines the state and the behavior of the soul that is strickly connected with mind. So there is a science in human universe that is searching the souls. That lead us to the point that there is soul after all and it is accepted as a fact by the human community. ( if you still doubt i can link you psycology books including the last book of my uncle who was professor of Psychology in Ludwig Maximillian univercity of Munich. I believe that you can find new things in those books.)

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No again, you are as wrong as anyone can be.
This is the correct definition of Psychology, as found in the MerriamWebster dictionary...

Definition of PSYCHOLOGY

1 : the science of mind and behavior
2 : the mental or behavioral characteristics of an individual or group
3 : the study of mind and behavior in relation to a particular field of knowledge or activity
4 : a theory or system of psychology <Freudian psychology>

The scientific discipline we call Psychology does not concern itself with the study of, nor the searching out of, souls. It only concerns behavioral psychology when lunatics and people with mental disorders believe they have seen or talk to 'ghosts' or 'souls' or whatever you want to call those entities which do not exist in the real world.

You are asking me a question about how the souls cross to another plain of being. You need a process. Ancient greeks gave an answer that through death the souls are realised from the body and cross to another plains of existance. (Homer poet of Iliad and Odyssey, wroted that as well in 5000bc while Achilles and Ajax died, Aristotle also spoke about soul in the book of De Anima in latins or Peri psyche in ancient greeks). Many Greeks and Latins spoke about the existance of soul and gave examples of every day life. Those writings were the results of observation of human spirit in the last moments of life while the death process was on the way. That answer is also a fact that was used by Freud and the rest Europeans psychologists.

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If your answer is 'we have souls just because we do and ancient greek philosophers say so'... sorry, that won't wash with me.

The ancient Greek philosophers, when they weren't having sex with young boys, were interested in the essence of things. In that search, some of them were quite amazing. Some of them understood that things are made up of smaller things, and that those smaller things are made up of yet even smaller things, and so on. They conceived of the elements and of atoms and a medium in which atoms interact and react (vacuum), the building blocks as it were. The Periodic Table is built on ancient greek philosophy... that said, they knew only of the essence of what makes up the universe, not of the true nature of the universe. Some Greek philosophers surmised that all trees are based on one perfect tree. That the one perfect tree existed in the ether, or in a realm outside this world to keep it from corruption. While such a belief touches on Darwinian Evolution, it is not even close to how life comes to be or how life evolves over time.

To the subject now. Science accepts the existance of soul by Psychology and Religion also accepts the existance of soul. Both do not accept the existance of ghosts.

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Science only accepts that which can be passed through the scientific method.
There is no scientific discipline that accepts the existence of a soul, only the remote possibility that a soul could exist... because you cannot prove that something does not exist.

The ancient greek philosophers and the ancient greeks in general were not homosexuals nor pedophiles and this myth is a ridiculous invention of some idiotic "professors".Don't you DARE say that again.Not even for fun.You hear me troll boy?No,don't say a thing,sit down on your chair,think a bit,shut your mouth and know your place.You came here with an attitude,you're gonna walk away with that attitude,you get it?Enough is ENOUGH.Behave or take a hike.

No again, you are as wrong as anyone can be.
This is the correct definition of Psychology, as found in the MerriamWebster dictionary...

Definition of PSYCHOLOGY

1 : the science of mind and behavior
2 : the mental or behavioral characteristics of an individual or group
3 : the study of mind and behavior in relation to a particular field of knowledge or activity
4 : a theory or system of psychology <Freudian psychology>

The scientific discipline we call Psychology does not concern itself with the study of, nor the searching out of, souls. It only concerns behavioral psychology when lunatics and people with mental disorders believe they have seen or talk to 'ghosts' or 'souls' or whatever you want to call those entities which do not exist in the real world.

If your answer is 'we have souls just because we do and ancient greek philosophers say so'... sorry, that won't wash with me.

The ancient Greek philosophers, when they weren't having sex with young boys, were interested in the essence of things. In that search, some of them were quite amazing. Some of them understood that things are made up of smaller things, and that those smaller things are made up of yet even smaller things, and so on. They conceived of the elements and of atoms and a medium in which atoms interact and react (vacuum), the building blocks as it were. The Periodic Table is built on ancient greek philosophy... that said, they knew only of the essence of what makes up the universe, not of the true nature of the universe. Some Greek philosophers surmised that all trees are based on one perfect tree. That the one perfect tree existed in the ether, or in a realm outside this world to keep it from corruption. While such a belief touches on Darwinian Evolution, it is not even close to how life comes to be or how life evolves over time.

Science only accepts that which can be passed through the scientific method.
There is no scientific discipline that accepts the existence of a soul, only the remote possibility that a soul could exist... because you cannot prove that something does not exist.

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Why i m wrong Mister Sparrow??? you are off topic you speak of ancient Greeks like gays... you use MerriamWebster dictionary that is not recomended for the Psychology teachers and students... You have no idea what Psychology means... you copy paste info from the web... I bet that you had never read the book De anima (aristotle about souls and psychology) Tell me some works off ancient Greeks that spoke about souls... you don't know... And yes let me guess you don't know ancient greek language to read them from prototype (That's why you still think that ancient greeks were gays like stupid holywoood american noobs think... while the scientistic community with leader the professor Hunter wrote tons of books to eraze that myth.) Yes and you buy cheap wrong english translations to understand... I m sorry mister sparrow... Psychology is what the word says and described by ancient Greeks. They gave birth to this science. So don't tell me what a dictionary of 1800 tell.(that it is not recomended for Psychology research) Cause the copied the previous texts and the text copied the previous texts and bla bla bla... You see real knowledge is the result of global research not google research, and the heart of knowledge lives in the book pages around the univercities of the world. You speak about the atom theory that ancient Greek told about creation of the world... you are off topic you see. in this thread we are searching in the existance of ghost. If you want a debate in how the world created i know many ancient greek stories to tell. I can start you with Plato theory about creation.. but there is no need... You see you gonna tell me again what you have read of cheap translations with the little minded translators falsly understand the texts of the ancestors. I m sorry, if you want to understand a culture a knowledge a country a civilization an event you have to either live it or learn to live like it...

First of all, I'm sorry what have been caused by my simple response to this poll. I cited the TFF-rules in first line because someone was quoted and I was talked about instead of quoting me when talking about me. That is a bad habit and bashing. Well, I also got a bit emotional when being called ridiculous because of my viewpoint. But I settled my matter in some peaceful way. This thread was closed for me.

Thanks to those who supported me at the beginning, but this should not turn into a flame war against each other.

I know that I'm probably going to make some enemies but I declare that it is neither my wish nor my intention.

But the poll is about ghosts, not about souls. The discussion of souls belongs to psychology and/or religion - but the discussion of ghosts belongs to the ressort of parapsychology. So talking about psychology is already "off-topic". I wouldn't mind talking about Greek mythology and how the world of ghosts or spirits is treated there, could be very interesting to know. In my opinion, mythology goes rather with parapsychology than psychology/religion.

Otherwise, if you all like that "soul"-topic, it would make a good theme for a new poll .... just thinking so by myself.

And please don't bash you three with off-topic in slight offensive manner. As I have seen in other threads you can all be very reasonable in posting. I would be sorry for my friends seeing them torn in a flame war, losing their self-control and this nice forum being destroyed by disharmony and quarrel.

Aristotle, Socrates, and Platos are considered philosophers, not psychologists, no? They were the first threads of psychology, true, but as far as I'm concerned, according to what I have learned, they are not the birth of psychology. That was hundreds of years later, I believe.

I can't claim to know much Greek, especially nothing archaic, however I hesitantly point out that words, especially the older ones, often have multiple meanings and are open to the readers perception. And claiming that the ancient people knew things doesn't seem quite valid to me as a general argument, as they also believed that the Earth was flat and that the universe centered around us.

Though I agree flinging about the assumed homosexuality of people is rather uncalled for.

Saeriel yes the ancient were philosophers, and philosophy is the mother of all other sciences! And indeed they didn't call themselves Psychologists. But the gave definitions about the states of soul. And all these states and conclusions they made they called it Psychology which means the study of soul as the word says. Before them noone studied the soul.

Forgotten Realms is right... We were off topic... Sparrow and me have a different point of view. He is an American i m a Greek totally different cultures...

So we can carry on with ghosts.
There are some good movies about ghosts. Or ghost hunting. I saw one before some months that was called Grave Encounters. i wasn't scared to be honest.

Erm Anduil, I WON'T say philosophy is the mother of all sciences. imo it's pretty much what we'll call humane science. Simply put, we're talking abt humanistics in general. Nothing more, nothing less. As for psychology, interestingly enough, such a concept actually comes far LATER than philosophy so as to speak. Strictly speaking, psychology is abt explaining behaviour via mental patterns. Humanism is just this: exploration on humanity. NOT just on the psychological end, but above all exploring the entire cause-and-effect in everything pertaining to humane acts. It's just like seeing the differences between tactics and strategy in war. The former relies on actual usage via a limited on-the-field scope while the latter is all abt the knowledge of the overall scope at the cost of the details within the tactical end. Actually now that I've came to this point, shouldn't the fact that history and psychology being two diff academic fields be pointing towards the deciding differences between humanistics and science? (read: Reality conceived via 100% concept vs reality coming from 100% theory)

P.S: Just a note on anyone who wanna jump on Sparrow, I think it's pointless to play the reasoning game with him. Human beings are ruled by subjective bias. It's just that at the end of the day, we're talking abt diff individuals with diff levels and nature on this end. Going circular mode is 120% capable in the minds of EVERY human beings. I've seen it from him before and he isn't the first. And neither will he be the last. In fact by knowing his own stance on politicians and ruling governments in general, I know shit will be pointless anyway. -.-