A Virginia Tech official in 2006 praised the defeat of a proposal to allow students with state-issued concealed handgun permits to carry their handguns on college campuses in Virginia. At least 20 unarmed students were killed on the VA Tech campus Monday morning by a single gunman. Virginia House Bill 1572 was proposed in 2005 by Shenandoah County, Va., Republican Del. Todd Gilbert after a VA Tech student with a state-issued concealed handgun permit was arrested and charged only with "unlawfully" carrying a handgun on campus. The bill would have prohibited state universities in Virginia from enacting "rules or regulations limiting or abridging the ability of a student who possesses a valid concealed handgun permit ... from lawfully carrying a concealed handgun."

After the proposal died in the state's House Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety, The Roanoke Times quoted VA Tech spokesman Larry Hincker as celebrating the defeat of the bill. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions," Hincker said on Jan. 31, 2006, "because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."

Following Monday's multiple-victim shooting at VA Tech, Erich Pratt with Virginia-based Gun Owners of America called that philosophy "idiocy." "I think gun control advocates will say, 'See, we need more gun control,' even though this is exactly the product of gun control," Pratt said.

Currently, only Utah has a statute specifically authorizing law-abiding individuals with concealed handgun permits to possess their firearms on state university property. Most other states have explicit or implied prohibitions. "Every school campus [other than those in Utah] in this nation is a 'gun free zone,' supposedly," Pratt bemoaned. "But, isn't it amazing that criminals, bad guys never obey those laws."

Regarding Utah, Pratt adds, "Isn't it interesting that that's the one state where we haven't heard of any school shootings." At least two school shootings have been stopped by armed civilians before police arrived:

· January 9, 2002, Appalachian School of Law in Grundy, Va. - 43 year old Peter Odighizuwa, who had flunked out of the small law school earlier in the week killed three people and wounded three others. Two law students - Tracy Bridges and Ted Besen - retreived a handgun from Bridges' vehicle and held Odighizuwa at gun point for several minutes before police arrived. (Bridges was a reserve deputy sheriff, but was not on duty at the time of the incident.)

· October 1, 1997, Pearl High School, Pearl, Ms. - 16 year old Luke Woodham carried a rifle onto the school campus, killed his ex-girlfriend and one of her friends and wounded seven other people. Assisstant Principal Joel Myrick retreived a handgun from his truck and held Woodham for police. It was later learned that the teeneager had beaten and stabbed his own mother to death before the attack at the school.

Pratt is not optimistic, however, that lawmakers will allow public university students and faculty members to protect themselves from mass murderers like the one who struck VA Tech Monday. "The only schools and universities where these tragedies have been stopped abruptly were the places where law-abiding citizens had a gun that was accessible to them and they were able to stop the shooter," Pratt noted. "The schools and universities that had to wait for the police to arrive, those are the ones that find these high death tolls.

"It's just a real shame," he concluded, "that these guys never get it."

[Wrong! Their cause of death was a freak who thought it was a good idea to start executing people. Gun control, or the lack thereof, had absolutely nothing to do with the situation.

Conservatives have no more business hijacking a tragedy of this sort than the gun-control advocates do trying to further crack down on guns. It’s crass opportunism at its worst.]

Hijacking a tragedy? We wear seatbelts in cars. Not because we expect to be involved in a crash but just in case. We keep fire extinguishers in our house. Not because we expect the house to burn down. The government does not dare outlaw fire extinguishers or seatbelts because we have a right to proactively defend ourselves against an unlikely tragedy. Guns are different, apparently.

Now, I don’t disagree with your political opportunism sentiments. However, don’t ignore the importance of having a fire extinguisher by your bed when you wake to a raging fire in your home. Nor can you ignore the effect that having one legally armed and responsible student present at VA Tech somewhere in the mix during today’s tragedy. It is a subject worthy of debate. Properly equipped, most Americans rise to the occasion when confronted with situations like today’s. The powers to be have ensured that the opportunity for ordinary students to do something extraordinary, like saves lives, was absent. Worse, it was only recently the subject of debate on campus and in VA courts.

Again, politically charged or not, it is what it was and was not.

52
posted on 04/16/2007 2:17:25 PM PDT
by Tenacious 1
(No to nitwit jesters with a predisposition of self importance and unqualified political opinions!)

Jude 24 and others of their ilk never learn from history. It wasn't too long ago that Collin Ferguson, the Long Island train murderer traveled all the way from Texas to New York exactly because the liberals made laws to keep people unarmed and he could carry out his murders with no threat of bodily harm to himself.

He came right out and said so.

53
posted on 04/16/2007 2:20:59 PM PDT
by metalurgist
("For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul?" No to Rudy)

Although I believe people have the right to bear arms and protect themselves, it seems very sad that one has to pack on a campus!

Why? It would be nice to think that a place of learning was exempt from insane nuts but that's just not reality. History has shown otherwise. There's no reason in this world to exclude any college campus from concealed carry weapons.

Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6

There will always be freaks -- there's nothing we can do to change that. People, including freaks, will always find a way to access weapons to inflict harm -- there's nothing we can do to change that, either. Yet jude24 smugly declares:

Their cause of death was a freak who thought it was a good idea to start executing people.

Wrong! Their cause of death was their state of defenselessness. It assured the freak that A) he would meet with zero resistance and B) could go on killing until the cops showed up.

Sure, your declaration that their cause of death was a freak with a gun sounds like level-headed common sense, but you've fooled yourself and are in danger of fooling others.

Remember: there will always be freaks -- there's nothing we can do to change that. People, including freaks, will always find a way to access weapons to inflict harm -- there's nothing we can do to change that, either.

There's only one aspect of the equation that we can change: peoples' abilities to defend themselves. If you're going to deal with reality, then you must accept that the ONLY factor that's going to make a difference is the one you CAN change. That truly is common sense.

I would feel very uncomfortable sending my son to a campus that he felt the necessity to carry a concealed weapon for protection. Its crazy. Although I believe people have the right to bear arms and protect themselves, it seems very sad that one has to pack on a campus!

Like my Father told me, when I told him I "packed" a gun with me in my truck:

"It's better to have a gun and not need it, than to need a gun and not have it..."

31 students needed a gun today, and didn't have one, because they obeyed the law...

When a law restricts my ability to protect myself and my family, as far as I'm concerned, that "law" doesn't exist!

A bill that would have given college students and employees the right to carry handguns on campus died with nary a shot being fired in the General Assembly.

Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill was defeated. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."

65
posted on 04/16/2007 2:37:56 PM PDT
by bigjoesaddle
(If Gandhi were President instead of Ronald Regan, we would be calling one another "Comrade" now.)

An offshoot idiocy: my daughter’s 19YO boyfriend can’t shoot my semiauto AT THE RANGE without his mommy present. Explanation: if he’s under 21, he has to have his legal guardian give permission. Since when does a competent 19YO have a legal guardian? Of course, I’m perfectly okay with him watching me get a boxful of .40 shells in a 4-inch grouping...

Colonel, USAFR

66
posted on 04/16/2007 2:39:05 PM PDT
by jagusafr
(The proof that we are rightly related to God is that we do our best whether we feel inspired or not")

Many people have been saying this today. But think about it if many students are allowed to say carry their handguns in their backpacks or where ever they please, and something like this happens guns will be pointed in all directions, ever heard of friendly fire? Then when the police get there who are they suppose to shoot, hard to tell when everyone is shooting. Then think about this, have you ever shot a handgun? It’s not what it looks like in the movies. I’ve taken handgun safety courses and obtained a licence for one but even I can still miss a target from 15 feet away sometimes. I am not for taking away the right to bear arms but I think before people go around saying let everyone who wants to bring their gun to campus should, needs to think of the consequences. Increased security of people trained to use these weapons should be looked into first.

72
posted on 04/16/2007 2:49:44 PM PDT
by migjig
(Nobody has more guts than our soldiers!)

We are at war, both abroad and AT HOME, with an enemy who has sworn to kill as many of us as possible. This enemy DOES NOT recognize conventional rules of war such as the Geneva Convention. They do not wear recognizable uniforms. This enemy DOES NOT distinguish between military and civilian targets. At present civilian targets in the United States are NOT ARMED and have very little means by which to counter an attack. And because civilian targets are NOT armed, they are a softer, easier, less dangerous target than a heavily armed soldier. For that reason, this enemy PREFERS civilian targets.

As of this writing, we have yet to learn whether the deaths of 32 Americans at Virginia Tech was the work of a disgruntled, deranged student or former university employee.

Its entirely possible that this killer was, in fact, a member of some radical muslin sect who took it upon himself to conduct what is now being called instant jihad against a very soft target, obeying the utterances of one of the more radical Muslim mullahs and randomly killing as many Americans as possible. At least one Muslim cleric has specifically called for the killing of our children. Given the PC environment in this country  which is at its zenith on college campuses  we may NEVER learn that fact from the authorities in charge of this investigation AND IT REALLY DOESNT MATTER BECAUSE THE DEFENSELESS VICTIMS ARE JUST AS DEAD!

Israel has been at war with these folks for more than half a century. The Israelis know that it is NOT possible to have enough police out there to protect their civilian population. For that reason, it is common to see Israeli citizens  admittedly former military (as most Israelis are) going about their daily lives  with an Uzi slung under their arm! Most Israeli citizens carry smaller weapons not so easily seen. Because they ARE at war, they are an ARMED society. Yes, they ARE attacked. But with the exception of suicide bombers — the attackers know that they will either be killed BEFORE the body count mounts or will certainly die before fleeing the scene.

The Israelis REFUSE to live as prisoners. Many of them had experienced that in Europe. They KNEW what they had to do and did it: THEY GRASPED THE SIMPLE FACT THAT WHEN IT CAME TO IMMEDIATE PERSONAL SECURITY, A CITIZEN IS ON HIS OWN AND ALLOW THEIR CITIZENS THE GOD-GIVEN RIGHT TO DEFEND THEMSELVES!

Any guesses when American authorities will begin to connect the dots? Can you say never? Without SERIOUS public pressure on these authorities, we will continue to die needlessly while waiting for the SWAT boys to show up.

What amazes me is that more of this sort of thing hasnt happened in OTHER soft targets like public and private schools, shopping malls, theaters, sports bars (most states currently prohibit even CCW permit holders from carrying in bars), restaurants, etc.

The enemy is NOT stupid. This is just the beginning.
And if you think you and yours will NOT be in the cross-hairs, think again.

I live 10 miles from a Big Ten University in Pennsylvania and this is exactly why I refuse to to on that campus anymore. To many idiot liberals on that campus, and I will not be a sacrifice for their stupidity.

The occurrence at Virgina Tech will not be the last. As long as schools prevent the right to carry on their campuses they will be a target rich environment for anyone who wants to kill without having to worry about the consequences.

Once again, unfortunately, liberal stupidity (I know, it’s an oxymoron) has resulted in actions having undesired and brutal consequences.

He needn't have been an Islamderthal himself for this to be Islamofascist plot.

Very true. More to the point is the infamous Oklahoma City Murrah Building bombing in 1995. Although government and the MSM never told us the truth about that one, McVeigh and Nichols were agents and fronts for a much wider conspiracy masterminded by Iraqis who had gotten into the US after the Gulf War. (Reference: Jayna Davis, The Third Terrorist (Nashville, TN: WND Books, 2004)).

DUHHHHHHHHHHHHH!! Yesssssssss, In fact I have a CC for Nevada, I have fired every caliber of weapon from .22 up to a 20mm and 50 calibur.....Let me get this straight, you would rather the police not have to sort things out because if there were a lot of people with a weapon it might get messy...we I think that if there was a gunman and 30 students with a gun, then the majority of those 30 studenst would be aiming at the gunman.... get a grip

” Increased security of people trained to use these weapons should be looked into first.”

Look, most people have been brain washed into thinking that the “police” will come and save the day - well, that only happens on TV. And from my generation, having grown up in a rugged area of the country, my view of the “police” is that of Barney Phyfe, not Rambo, and from recent observations there is no need for this to change.

I had earlier posted my hunch that the shooter was indeed an Islamist (student, most likely) and if you check out post # 50 on this thread, LibLieSlayer reported that he heard a radio report that that was true, though still unconfirmed.

The cause of death was some wacko with a couple of hand guns. Don't make it into something it isn't.

Virginia has a concealed carry law. However, it is suspended at VA Tech, thanks to liberal minds who for some reason believe that a college campus is immune from the dangers that exist in the rest of society (and that guns are by their very nature evil).

Tech also differs from elite colleges, where it is unusual to meet anyone who grew up on a farm or in a rural environment. Lots of kids in Virginia grow up in rural environments. It's not unusual for them to get their first guns at a fairly young age. By the time they go off to Tech some of them are no doubt expert marksmen.

There were hundreds of kids in that dorm this morning. At least a few were probably quite capable of using a firearm. If only they had been allowed to have one in their possession, there probably wouldnt be 32 people dead at the other side of campus.

The above is how I see what happened. Of course, some will disagree.

85
posted on 04/16/2007 3:15:55 PM PDT
by freespirited
(Resentment, redistribution, and re-education. The three Rs of liberalism.)

I’m one person who won’t be disagreeing with you. I live in a rural part of Virginia. There was a headline update on the online version of our twice weekly local rag.....none of the folks from this area who attend VT were among those injured or killed.

86
posted on 04/16/2007 3:23:24 PM PDT
by Gabz
(I like mine with lettuce and tomato, heinz57 and french-fried potatoes)

Then don’t fire at the person unless you’re closer than 15 feet. If you have a gun, you MUST use your head. I’m all for training. No, not everyone should have a gun. About half the people are just too emotional to handle having a gun. And the cops should be better at accessing a situation. If you demand training for gun owners, then it won’t be a wild-west shootout. If a killer is shooting and civilians return fire, no, they won’t hit each other. But I say again, you have a right to be alive. A God-given right IMHO. Not cowered in corner waiting for death. Ayn Rand was right.

I listened to the Lars Larson Oregon show discuss the shooting today. He has a national show in the evening. He said Oregon’s concealed carry law was written to specifically prohibit local authorities from passing ordinances or administrative rules prohibiting lawful carry on public property like school campuses. Sheriffs and school administrators go ahead and write up the rules anyway and have to be continually slapped down.

There were hundreds of kids in that dorm this morning. At least a few were probably quite capable of using a firearm. If only they had been allowed to have one in their possession, there probably wouldnt be 32 people dead at the other side of campus

The VA Tech idiot Larry Hincker has the blood of innocent people on his hands...

...as well as all the VA legislators who voted to pass the ban. I say publish their names and give them some grief for their foolhardy votes. They should bear some responsibility and be held accountable for their votes to ban.

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