In the video clip, Mary has had a car accident that leads to a near-death experience. In her experience, the fiery place of torment is perceived as a vivid reality. When she wakes up in the hospital, the woman next to her tries to convince her that it wasn't real and that her experience is easily explained away. Her "explanation" has always been tempting, since many feel that a "loving God" could never punish people.

In the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus, Jesus tells the story of an affluent man who cannot imagine a reversal of fortune in the afterlife. He lived a life of luxury on earth, but finds himself in torment after his death. Even in the midst of his tormet, he attempts to cling to his former authority by commanding Abraham that Lazarus function as his servant.

Discussion Questions

1. Who do you suppose Jesus was addressing in this parable?

2. Why do we find the fiery place of torment to be an objectionable concept? How do we try to explain it away?

3. In what ways do we try to rely on our heritage or our earthly accopmlishments to keep us from eternal trouble?

Background

In Luke 16 Jesus tells several parables about rich people. In the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus, the Rich Man remains nameless. All we are told is that he has five brothers and that he wore purple and fine linen. He appeals to Abraham as a fellow Israelite as if that will gain him special privelages. Abraham tells the rich man of the harsh realities of eternity: Judgement is irrevocable. In fact, a great "chasm" has been fixed between heaven and the fiery place of torment, so that no one can cross from one side to the other. We may naturally minimize the irrevocable nature of the fiery place of torment, but in this parable Jesus undermines its permanence; there is no chance to appeal.

The rich man was trying to get a pass based on his resume. The point of contrast in the parable is between the rich man's riches and the abject poverty of Lazarus. The scriptures tell us that Lazarus was hoping to get some bread crumbs from the rich man's table. This refers to the use of bread as napkins in wealthy middle-eastern households. The rich would wipe their hands on bread and toss it to the floor as unworthy of consumption. Lazarus was not too proud to fight the dogs for scraps.

The rich man didn't end up where he was because of sins of commission, he ended up there because of sins of ommission. Jesus points out how sinful it is to ignore suffering and pain around us. 1 John 3:17 " If any one of you has material possessions and sees his brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in you?"

More Questions

4. What resume items do you believe will get you into heaven?

5. What sins of ommission have been brought to your attention recently?

6. If we truly perceived the fiery place of torment as real, how would it change our daily behavior? Our dealings with others? Our spiritual lives?

*Note* The video clip on youtube is unlisted. If you are not a member of PL Bible Study Group and would like to watch it, PM me for the link.

I think one reason people don't want to believe in the fiery forever is because they want to ease their conscience. They don't want to live right so they rationalize that it is not a real place.

Another reason is that people say a loving God would not do that to a person. And He wouldn't. People make that choice and send themselves to their eternal destinations. But people don't want to aceept that responsibility.

2. Have to agree with whitetm. People don't want to believe that a place like that is real. They also want to think and try to reason in their minds that God wouldn't send them to that place. How could a God so loving send them their, which in the end they convince themselves that they will just wing it and everything will be okay in the end.

3. We are all brought up from children to young adults from are parents in a way that they were raised from their parents. That means the passing down of are family heritage, family religion, family beliefs. Each of us are taught all these things and we base are eternal troubles on those teachings from are relatives/parents. For example in the catholic church I believe(correct me if wront) that they say if you want to go to heaven and have treasures you have to do good deeds to others. I hated this when this happened last week and I hope and pray that I am wrong. But look at the life of Coach Joe Paterno. He was catholic. He spent his entire career and most of his life doing good deeds for others. Me being a student from Penn State I have seen personally the things he has done for the school. He has built libraries, help built the catholic church on campus, has also helped in many other buildings for the students of the campus. JoePa has done many things, but that will not get him into heaven.

4.I believe the only thing a person needs to have to get into heaven is that they have been born again, they have repented their sins and have asked the Lord for forgiveness.

6. This should change our lives big time! I mean we should not want others to go that place of torment and pain. It should encourage us to talk to every one we come across to spread the name of the Lord.

You wouldn't go in there for a million bucks...A Cop does it for less...A Reserve does it for free....

First of all, I thought the video clip was just straight up weird. I know I shouldn't think like this, but I was trying to figure out what demonination would ordain a female Pastor and also not buy into the place..at all. I know Universalism says that the wicked go to punishment for a certain period of time, but it seemed that this lady didn't believe in the place period. And who was the guy with the chin hair in her near death experience? He was also at the funeral..?

1. In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, Jesus was addressing the Pharisees , and ultimately those who love money. That was established in Luke 16 verse 14.

2. I agree with tiff and stryker. The truth of the matter is we all deserve 2 deaths. Physical and spiritual. Scripture says that the place was not meant for us, it was prepared for Satan and his angels *Matthew 25:41*. But when you die separated from God, there is only one other place to go. This is the truth of scripture and using emotions to rationalize against the truth of scripture will get you burned. literally.

3. In Genesis 20 God said that he would show love for a thousand generations to those who love him and keep his commandments. Well the Jews tried to ride this one out to the fullest, always throwing out that Abraham was their father. Jesus clearly showed them that he was the only way to the Father, not through family ties. My family is pretty much split between mello and straight up hoodlums. The thought that I could appeal to God based on family ties is hilarious.

First of all, I thought the video clip was just straight up weird. I know I shouldn't think like this, but I was trying to figure out what demonination would ordain a female Pastor and also not buy into the place..at all. I know Universalism says that the wicked go to punishment for a certain period of time, but it seemed that this lady didn't believe in the place period. And who was the guy with the chin hair in her near death experience? He was also at the funeral..?

1. In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, Jesus was addressing the Pharisees , and ultimately those who love money. That was established in Luke 16 verse 14.

2. I agree with tiff and stryker. The truth of the matter is we all deserve 2 deaths. Physical and spiritual. Scripture says that the place was not meant for us, it was prepared for Satan and his angels *Matthew 25:41*. But when you die separated from God, there is only one other place to go. This is the truth of scripture and using emotions to rationalize against the truth of scripture will get you burned. literally.

3. In Genesis 20 God said that he would show love for a thousand generations to those who love him and keep his commandments. Well the Jews tried to ride this one out to the fullest, always throwing out that Abraham was their father. Jesus clearly showed them that he was the only way to the Father, not through family ties. My family is pretty much split between mello and straight up hoodlums. The thought that I could appeal to God based on family ties is hilarious.

5. There is too many to count. Sometimes I live like a Christian atheist. Believing in God but living as if he doesnt exist. OMGOsh I'm soo guilty! Praying Jesus will burden my heart.

6. Do we really need to answer this? Let's get out there and spread the good news!

I am with you on that! It was weird. My first thoughts on the video would be that car crash lady is in dream state of mind. My first thought is that the guy is suppose to be God and the lady is suppose to be the devil. Then my second thought is that lady is a friend of the car crash victim and a non believer. And the guy is maybe her husband? Very hard to make out.

You wouldn't go in there for a million bucks...A Cop does it for less...A Reserve does it for free....

There are a lot of main line religions that ordain women, UCC, Lutherns , Methodists. I personally to not think it is bibical . A lot that also do not believe in the Trinity, Jesus as the son of God or a literal heaven or the other place. If you don't believe in a literal h**l you have nothing to fear after death. I didn't find the video weird. I think the man was an angel and the women was the victim's pastor.

YaYa Sister
"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize"-voltaire

I know I shouldn't think like this, but I was trying to figure out what demonination would ordain a female Pastor and also not buy into the place..at all. I know Universalism says that the wicked go to punishment for a certain period of time, but it seemed that this lady didn't believe in the place period.

I don't know why, but I'm just seeing the responses to this devotion. But I digress:

My denomination is very strict and always has been. They were known for being hard core from the beginning. However, they now allow women to be licensed exhorters (a fancy word for preachers) and ordained ministers but not ordained bishops. That is the highest rank in our denomination's licensing and is reserved for men only. I won't go into it all, but I agree with their logic behind this. I am actually pursuing my exhorter's license right now.

That being said, I was shocked when I recently discovered that their are ministers - 'seasoned ministers!' - who have begun saying they question the existence of the fiery ever-after. WHAT?!?!?! That is in our Declaration of Faith! In order to even be a church member you have to agree to abide by this set of standards.

Do these people READ the Bible or just leave it laying on the table? Is it even out on the table anymore? How can they preach/believe only part of the Bible? You can't do that!

So - to answer you (and I know there technically wasn't a question) - there is a lot of compromising happening even as I type this. Denominations who once preached the Word are now 'watering it down' for one reason or another. I'm NOT being doom and gloom. There are many denominations and many good churches in those denominations. But we have to be aware of the compromising around us in order to NOT let it happen to us.

Well trying again. Grrrrrr. It all depends on how you interpretate the bible. It says this but it really means something else when there is no verse in the bible to back up what they are trying to make it mean. If there is no punishment in the afterlife then you have nothing to worry about, no accountability. People come to church to feel warm and fuzzy so that is what is being preached from the pulpits.

YaYa Sister
"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize"-voltaire

Well trying again. Grrrrrr. It all depends on how you interpretate the bible. It says this but it really means something else when there is no verse in the bible to back up what they are trying to make it mean. If there is no punishment in the afterlife then you have nothing to worry about, no accountability. People come to church to feel warm and fuzzy so that is what is being preached from the pulpits.

Well trying again. Grrrrrr. It all depends on how you interpretate the bible. It says this but it really means something else when there is no verse in the bible to back up what they are trying to make it mean. If there is no punishment in the afterlife then you have nothing to worry about, no accountability. People come to church to feel warm and fuzzy so that is what is being preached from the pulpits.

I don't want warm and fuzzy. I want the TRUTH. Even if it hurts.

Bump!! Churches need to give the truth, no sugar coating the problems. Give it to them with both barrels!!

You wouldn't go in there for a million bucks...A Cop does it for less...A Reserve does it for free....

I hear people say they "don't want to offend them." I just want to tell them, "Well that's fine. You're going to "not offend" them all the way to h*ll. Because that is where they'll be if they don't accept the truth."

I hear people say they "don't want to offend them." I just want to tell them, "Well that's fine. You're going to "not offend" them all the way to h*ll. Because that is where they'll be if they don't accept the truth."

Stryker: How's that for not sugar-coating? :)

I hate that word "offend". If you don't want to hear the truth then be ready for what will happen in the end. Because their isn't nothing I or anyone else can do for you. BUMP whitetm!! Love it!

You wouldn't go in there for a million bucks...A Cop does it for less...A Reserve does it for free....

The bottom line is God will save who He has called out before the beginning of time. Despite what is not being taught in our churches. And the ones who are not teaching the word will need to give an account of themselves when they stand at the judgement seat.

YaYa Sister
"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize"-voltaire

The bottom line is God will save who He has called out before the beginning of time. Despite what is not being taught in our churches. And the ones who are not teaching the word will need to give an account of themselves when they stand at the judgement seat.

BUMP! AMEN!!

You wouldn't go in there for a million bucks...A Cop does it for less...A Reserve does it for free....