Well here it is gain, the sentence has come down....5 years probation, 75 days in jail, 100 hours of community service and he can never be part of or be in contact with a fire company aever again. IS this fair.....somehow i dont think so, but liek myself and SFDLT5 have been saying, the judges in this county give out nice light sentences here. Im sure there will be plenty of discussion, i will check back after work to see were it is ***, and give any addtional info i may have at that point

07-08-2002, 12:30 PM

nyfirefighter55

woooooooo whooooooooo yeeeeeeee haaaaaaa....dont bend over to get the soap al

07-08-2002, 12:51 PM

sfdlt5

Well the sentence is lighter than I thaught it would and should be. You are all going to be ****ed about this one. Know instead of ****ing and moaning about the sentence , help us in Oneida county out. Help us get the state or even the county to adopt NFPA standars. Remember it is time to fix this danm fire service once and for all.:eek:

07-08-2002, 12:58 PM

CJMinick390

Yes, he probably should have received more jail time, but my guess is that he will feel that the real injustice (since from what I hear he doesn't think he did anything wrong) will be the stipulation that he can never have anything to do with the fire service again. At least he won't hurt anyone else...:rolleyes: I wish you all in Oneida County all the best as you try to make something good come out of this horrible event.

07-08-2002, 01:16 PM

NCRSQ751

I don't think it's sufficient, 75 days isn't enough jail time if you ask me. At least he can't be a firefighter anymore - that's one good thing. I think he should do his community service somewhere he can do some actual good - in a burn unit maybe - give him a taste of what he did to Bradley Golden. I know you can only do so much with the law, but I don't see that 4 years is too much to ask for the taking of a life.

07-08-2002, 01:41 PM

jiffy911

:eek:
I'm no law expert, but that sentence seems to me like a slap on the wrist...
Just my thought.

07-08-2002, 01:53 PM

littlemissemt

Wait, ONLY 75 days in jail??? That is a slap on the wrist, big time. He should have been given a longer sentence (preferably LIFE). He took a life, that is all there is to it. And he thinks that he did nothing wrong? Somebody needs to give him a big reality check. His negiglence took somebody's life. This "training exercise" should have been more well-planned and EVERYONE that was in charge should have known what was going to happen, and if Baird wanted more smoke, he should have consulted with ALL in charge. At least he can't fight anymore fires nor have any contact with a department.
I have an idea for what he should do for his community service..he should spend all that time picking up trash wearing a sign saying "Due to my stupidity, ego, and negligence, a young rookie firefighter lost his life." That would be perfect.

07-08-2002, 02:06 PM

sfdlt5

Help us

:mad: I knew that it wouldnt take long for this to start to heat up. Many of you are so amd about this that it is blurring your vision. Some seem to be getting that dreaded tunnle vision. Go ahead and vent though, I'm not trying to stop you. Please as a vollie in Oneida county I plead with you to Email the Governor and ask him to make NY an NFPA state. This is the one thing that might be good about this whole thing. If we can all band together and make a change for the better. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: I feel the sentence should have been longer. I also feel that i would like to see Baird paint my station from top to bottom ( call me selfish). Maybe as he is doing it we could get a minor call or two. Would be nice to watch him scwerm as we pull out of the barn with the sirens wailing.:mad:

07-08-2002, 02:24 PM

truck6alpha

Appears a little light to me, but I'm hoping some lessons were learned here. I'd be curious as to how the Golden family feels about it. At least he's not going to be fighting fires anymore.

07-08-2002, 02:27 PM

GeorgeWendtCFI

I am reserving my comments until I read the official version, including what comments the judge may have made.

Does anyone up there know if the sentence is 75 days IN jail (stipulated) or 75 days in jail? The difference is one guarantees he will do 75 days. The other fits into sentencing guidelines that means he will do significantly less.

For example, in NJ, he would do less than 20 days if he was sentenced as a first time offender to 75 days flat.

07-08-2002, 03:37 PM

LadyCapn

sfdlt5, rather than getting angry at us and demanding that we write your Govenors to adopt NFPA standards, I think YOU need to do that.

None of us will balk at helping in this way, but realistically it means nothing coming from us. We do not live in NYS, nor do we vote in NYS. But you do. Pleas for action coming from firefighters within NYS will carry far more weight than from 300 firefighters from other States and Countries.

Firefighters within NY need to get together, strike a committee and EDUCATE other firefighters. WHen that is complete, then and only then should you approach upper levels of Government. Education of firefighters themselves ensures the support you need to put pressure on for change. Pushing for NFPA standards will cause dissention from Municiple governments and independant FD's who don't want to spend the money required. You need to gather a significant support group ready to counter the cries of lack of funds with educated answers and alternatives. Only then will change happen.

Good Luck..

As for Bairds sentence, it is no more or less than I expected, but it is a step in the right direction. It holds someone accountable for their actions. And sends the message that this type of behaviour will not be tolerated.

May Lairdsville now heal.

07-08-2002, 03:40 PM

DeputyChiefGonzo

I feel that Alan Baird should have served the 4 years that the judge could have imposed upon him. The judge in the case has handed what he felt to be an appropriate sentence and now he must do his time and community service.

What now?

For us in the fire service, this type of training incident must never happen again!

How do we go about it? We cannot do anything in New York State unless we reside there, but we can educate our personnel in our own state and on the local level.

If a fire department has no standards for joining, then they must be developed. Taking someone in because they are a warm body that can respond does not cut it anymore. Promoting people to officers ranks because of popularity must also stop. It should be the best qualified person.

Training has to be improved. All departments who are planning live burn training in either a burn building or an acquired structure should get a copy of NFPA 1403, at $27 a copy, it's cheap compared to the expenses of a line of duty death or fire training injury.

07-08-2002, 03:56 PM

sfdlt5

lady

Well Lady I am not getting angry with you. I am just hoping that a little outside help would be nice. I live in a small community and we have these old farts called fire commisioners. We have tried to get them to purchase the NFPA guidelines with no success. These are our own local problems. They only give us a 10,000 dollar equipment budget, that includes repairs. If we bitch to much we get nothing out of them. We are on ok terms with them know but that will change cause we need not want a new peice of apparatus. The people outside the state can always help. Why did everyone email the DA in this case if they dont live here what would he care. That is what you are saying right? Ok Im doen need to go get a pepsi.:p

07-08-2002, 04:02 PM

distchief60b

I am with Gonzo here. He should have received the maximum sentence. To repeat what Gonzo says...."THIS MUST NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN!" There is some satisfaction with the fact that he may never again be associated with a fire department activity. But for him to get off with only serving 75 days....come on!!!!

I hope that the prosecutor now goes for the rest of the participants and has the same end result!

My only question here is.......What is to stop him from moving to "OUTBACK TOWN USA" where they may be oblivious to his whole background or where his name may not ring a bell? What if they don't a background investigation? The potential for disaster is still here!!!

Standards must be developed and then followed. Ones in existence already need to be adhered to.

sfdlt5.....you need to help yourself brother! What in heavens name would having him paint your station do to him? We are speaking our in concern for firefighters all across the nation. Not just NY...This is just one incident that has the potential to repeat! Wake up.....What is an NFPA STATE???? As far as I know not every state has adopted the standards but a lot of fire departments choose to follow them regardless. WHY? Well...they are smart enough to know that even though the standard are not mandatory there is some sort of liability out there for not following a standard that is nationaly recognized and developed by a collection of individuals from the industry for which it was designed. It is a NO BRAINER! Florida follows NFPA...and So does Virginia... Don't wait for us to do it for you. Move your department into compliance with standards. Be a pioneer. It has the domino effect....others will follow. Why would the governor of NY care if a bunch of firefighters from outside his state were lobbying for him to do something with NFPA? Start the movement from within....Clean up your own house!

07-08-2002, 04:24 PM

DeputyChiefGonzo

Re: lady

Quote:

Originally posted by sfdlt5 I live in a small community and we have these old farts called fire commisioners. We have tried to get them to purchase the NFPA guidelines with no success. They only give us a 10,000 dollar equipment budget, that includes repairs.

Hmmmmmm....

A $10,000 equipment budget, less $27 for a copy of NFPA 1403 = $9,983!

Listen to what you are saying...you want others to do the work for you..this isn't a Fire Department welfare program, it's all about the safety of your personnel!

Hell, you could all chip in a buck or two and get the copy of the live fire training guideline..have a fundraiser to purchase them....approach the local businesses and ask them for donations...ask your elected officials on the state level to file legislation to help the smaller departments in the area.

The longest journey begins with a single step...

07-08-2002, 05:09 PM

Thunderhorse

Bairds free walk

Until the State of New York wakes up and starts riding herd over the cowboys in the Volunteer Fire fighting Community accidents like this will continue to happen. Mr. Bairds in himslf should not shoulder all of the blame. The Commissioners that oversee his department should also have been brought into court for placing a person not quailified, trained or certified in a position of authority to conducit a live fire training like this. And shame on the State of New York for not having higher standards that allow individuals to be placed in authority positions only because of years of service and how many bells they respond to. There should be a State Standard that all officers in a Volunteer Fire Department must meet before that first run is even allowed with them in charge.

07-08-2002, 05:28 PM

distchief60b

Quote:

The Commissioners that oversee his department should also have been brought into court for placing a person not quailified, trained or certified in a position of authority to conducit a live fire training like this.

Quote:

And shame on the State of New York for not having higher standards that allow individuals to be placed in authority positions only because of years of service and how many bells they respond to. There should be a State Standard that all officers in a Volunteer Fire Department must meet before that first run is even allowed with them in charge.

Thunderhorse.....you are preaching to the chior here. I see you have only 2 posts so it is understandable. If you read all the posts in the "baird guilty post" as well as "Laridsville Revisited" you will see that a great deal of us have said that over and over.

However...a department does not have to wait for the state to mandate something before they adopt it. The NFPA standards are out there for all to use and as Gonzo says...take up a collection and buy a set. Then put them to use! Be a leader not a follower!

07-08-2002, 05:39 PM

Funkyfire13

Time to change

Ok, so now it is time to heal the fire service in NYS and in the county here, how does that happen, Well i think it needs to start in each and every departmetn in this county and state. We as the members of these departments need to step up and push for change internally first then push for it outside our department on the state or county level. I for one am all for pushing fo rhigher standards in my department....the problem is i am one vote and if i took a straw poll right now i would never win. there are jsut so many that still think that nothing should have been done in this and that things should stay the same. The real question is how do i wake up these people.

07-08-2002, 05:55 PM

Fitguy51

Commissioners

These guys are elected by the residents of the fire district. They serve a 5 year term. That means that if you work at it you can change control in 3 years. Get out there and work the change who sits on the BOC. Most of the votes a cast by members of the FD as the community know nothing about the voting. In fact the only requirement to run for the BOC is that you be a resident of the fire district. You dont have to know LDH from a trash line.

07-08-2002, 06:27 PM

truck6alpha

Hup to, hup to!

Ah, I am hearing again the battle cry that we raised so many weeks ago- minimum standards for fire officers. A professional competency for people leading people into fires, during rescues, and while training. It's an admirable concept and one I applaud (seeing as I've been screaming it from the rafters for so long). But, alas, this is the fire service- 200 plus years of tradition unencumbered by progress.

Are we going to write a happy ending to this story, boys (and girls)? Or are we going to forget this whole thing in a few days and move on? Is this going to be the storm of change we see on the horizon or just a squall?

Just trying to be alliterative when I'm being a cynic. I foresee no overall change in the future. Too many chiefs and commissioners have too much to lose by modernizing and requiring them to meet a standard. We didn't learn our lesson from the law enforcement sector years ago and unless government makes it mandatory (which shouldn't have to be done, but look at how this is playing out) I just don't see it happening.

Sorry, but that's just the way I see it. I'll just have to be happy with increasing professionalism in my little corner of the world and writing about those who won't. Those who fail to learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them...

07-08-2002, 07:44 PM

ChiefReason

Baird sentenced to 5 years probation
July 8, 2002

By KELLY HASSETT
Observer-Dispatch

UTICA - Former Lairdsville firefighter Alan G. Baird III was sentenced to five years probation Monday, the first 75 days of which he'll serve in jail, for the Sept. 25 training death of 19-year-old Bradley Golden.

Baird also is prohibited from working for or having contact with any fire department and must serve 100 hours of community service, according to Oneida County Court Judge Michael L. Dwyer.

There you are, boys and girls. That is what a life is worth in Lairdsville.
But wait; he is now a convicted felon. If he was an avid hunter, he can never legally own a gun, again. He can no longer vote in elections. He will always have to answer "yes" to the question; "have you ever been convicted of a felony?" He can never be a firefighter again; my personal favorite. AND, now that the criminal trial is over, the civil trial can begin. For everyone, including myself, this is where the others will have to ante up. No immunity; civil liability for everyone!
Sure, I wanted to see more jail time; who didn't? But think of the possibilities! And I see positive signs that NYS is getting it together for state mandated training requirements.
How many of you emailed the prosecutor and told him that a sentencing stipulation should be that Alan Baird III should never be a firefighter again? I did. I figured; why give this guy another chance to kill someone. Hats off to the judge!
Jail time sends a strong message. Five years probation is lengthy. 100 hours of community service will get a lot of unsightly weeds pulled. Never again a firefighter-priceless. Is Christine Golden is satisfied with the sentence? I hope to hear from her. If she and the Golden family are satisfied, then I guess we should be also.
Thunderhorse: you took a swipe at volunteers; I won't dignify it with a response, BUT with only (2) posts under your belt, I would choose your words more carefully. The butt you bite may be your own.
Anyone got the link to the transcript of today's proceedings?
I'm feeling a little giddy. Ah, what the heck; Guinness for everyone!
Oh, and where the heck is MONGO?
Be safe.

07-08-2002, 11:06 PM

distchief60b

Chief Reason....

I am slipping....I missed the comment thunderhorse made about volunteers... thanks for pointing it out.

As usual you are full of good points. I never thought of the gun thing or the elections or any of that stuff.

The point that hit me the most was...Is the Golden family satisfied? And...if so...I guess we need to be also.

As usual..your wisdom is appreciated and respected.

07-08-2002, 11:25 PM

ChiefReason

Captstanm1:
Stop; you're embarassing me. Thanks for the comments. I think that I was trying to console myself in knowing that he will lose other civil liberties now that he is a convicted felon.
I wish I could get my hands on the transcripts of the impact statements. And I'd like to hear what Old Al had to say. You know; did he finally admit his crime? But I can wait till tomorrow.
Yea, thunderhorse tried to get that vollie/career thing going. Didn't bite, though. I think I am learning to control my anger a little better. Must be the crust.
Take care, Cap and if you hear from Mongo, tell him I miss hearing from him. And JTL, too. And Motown. And BucksEngine. Hey, Tillerdog!
IMACOJ and proud of it.

07-09-2002, 12:37 AM

flathead

I hate to cast a dark cloud here, but the AP report in the local paper says, " Dwyer (the judge) also ordered Baird to perform 100 hours of community service and barred him from any involvement with any fire departments for THE DURATION OF HIS PROBATION." I don't read that as forever barred from the fire service!:( Anybody else out there have the transcript of the sentencing?

07-09-2002, 12:54 AM

NJFFSA16

Here is the AP wire story

I will post my thoughts as time allows, however, here is the complete AP story re: Baird.
--------------------------------------------------
UTICA, N.Y. (AP) - A former volunteer deputy fire chief was
sentenced Monday to 75 days in jail for his role in a rookie
firefighter's death during a "live fire" training exercise last
fall.
Alan Baird III, 30, of Westmoreland, was given five years'
probation by Oneida County Judge Michael Dwyer, who ordered Baird
to serve the first 75 days in the county jail.
Dwyer also ordered Baird to perform 100 hours of community
service and barred him from involvement with any fire departments
during his probation.
Baird, a 12-year member of the Lairdsville Fire Department, was
convicted in May of criminally negligent homicide in the death of
19-year-old Bradley Golden.
Golden was trapped on the second floor of a vacant house when a
fire during a Sept. 25 training session went out of control.
Another firefighter and a second trainee survived but suffered
severe burns.
Dwyer, who said he had never seen so much interest created by a
case in his 22 years on the bench, criticized Baird for not being a
leader on that tragic fall night.
"This was not an accident. An accident is something
unavoidable," Dwyer said. "This was a series of bad decisions
that you should not have made."
Baird, who had stood motionless as two members of Golden's
family asked for the maximum penalty in emotion-packed addresses,
openly sobbed when it was his turn to speak.
"There's not a day that goes by that I don't think about
Bradley and what happened that night," said Baird, a father of two
young children. "If there was a way I could change it, I would."
Jurors decided Baird acted recklessly in lighting the fire in a
first-floor sofa bed while Golden was in the second-floor bedroom
posing as one of the victims. The fire quickly burned out of
control and blocked all exits out of the 100-year-old farmhouse 88
miles northwest of Albany.
"You were there. You should have known better," Dwyer said.
Golden's stepsister, Amberley Roberts, who asked Dwyer to impose
the maximum sentence of four years in prison, said the family was
comfortable with the outcome.
"I really liked what he (Dwyer) had to say," Roberts said.
"We had hoped for more, but we're satisfied."
Before his trial, Baird rejected an offer to plead guilty to
criminally negligent homicide in exchange for six months in county
jail and five years' probation. Jurors acquitted Baird of the more
serious charge of second-degree manslaughter and a charge of
second-degree assault.
While testifying in May, Baird choked back tears and said he was
not solely to blame for Golden's death.
Baird told jurors he had refused to allow Golden to pose as a
victim in the training drill, since the teen had been training only
three weeks and was not yet certified. It was only after the fire
flamed out of control that Baird learned that Golden and two others
were inside the vacant building.
Baird admitted setting a fire in a first floor stairwell but
blamed other senior officials on the scene for allowing Golden to
go into the house. However, he admitted the exercise was poorly
planned.
During the five-day trial, Assistant District Attorney Michael
Coluzza called nearly two dozen witnesses to build his case that
Baird, then the assistant fire chief, planned the exercise without
consulting others and without adequate safety precautions.
Outside in the morning sunshine after his son's sentencing,
Baird's father was disillusioned.
"This was traumatic. It has shaken me to the bone," Alan Baird
II said. "Jail time serves no purpose whatsoever."
"There are no winners in this situation," said Bill Vineall,
former fire chief in nearby Sherrill who was in the packed
courtroom. "No matter what side you're on, there is plenty of
blame to go around."