Same old story from Outcast

Hey guys wassup, there wernt very many people on our server tonight so i chanced i night time stroll onto outcasts server. When i got there i was "padawan" and outcast was on so, i was sending privite messages to the ATS recruits saying things like "we only offer the truth so go to www.soljk2.forumotion.com and find out our side of the story", i think i might have had one recruit convinced because he disconnected once he read the message so idk maybe he came on here.

Anyways outcast disconnected too but herny and abrum were still on so i was unsure how best to go on, i decided to have balls of steel and set up a bind saying pretty much the above statement, changed my name to phoenix and began lets say.....advertising, nobody really said much to tell you the truth.

However soon after unknown to me outcast came back on and i pressed my say bind, he didnt seem too happy but surpisingly he didnt disconnect me. he said to me "phoenix if you say that again u i will ban you with all the other exiles. We'll if i was banned i couldnt rally any recruits to our cause so instead i started talking to outcast, i said "all im offering is the truth im not bad mouthing you", he replied, "but this is ATS, real ATS". I said "that is your opinion" and said "how come you ban all my friends?". So he pulled out the old "you wouldnt understand" card and also said, "you are new, u dont know about what ATS was, u just a kid". "i was like er thanks but im 21 m8". he replied, "kid attitide i mean". so i said afew other things like "we trusted you and you screwed us" and "how come u deleted our forum and server?" I got very little response and in fact i was probably lucky to still be on the server at this point. I will say abrum was actually being very friendly considering i was doing what i was, he just said "hey phoenix how u doing?". So it looks very much like abrum is wanting to stay clear of the argument.

Anyways surpisingly outcast really didnt seem too intrested in arguing with me other than to say "the real ATS is right here, yours is not real". Taken aback by his disintrest in putting me straight i wondered, is he not arguing because he has no defence, or is he genuinly tired and weary of the bad blood and the conflict? So i left him alone and went to talk to herny to see what he had to say.

Herny seems positively and genuinely sick, he told me that him and sebbat have been having discussion because they both want to find a diplomatic solution to the mess he feels we are all in, he said that he wants to meet with nick and hektor (possibly with outcast) to discuss and remedies he can think of to the problem. Herny did seem very honest, he said he hates the bad feelings between us and that he feels very sad, he just wants it all to be over so that he can get on with his life.

He said that he thinks (as we all already know) that we should give the name back to outcast because he created it and therefore its his property, i said that was exactly what our clan is about, we carry the torch of fair play too, we uphold the loyalty and the legacy that ATS requires and we also bring the great friendships and bonds into it. I said there is very little chance of us changing our name because it means everything to us. Herny said that it didnt matter about the feelings we have about the tag because those feelings should exsist amongst us regardless of our clan name. Which i think i does but the clan name still means everything to us as well. However other than the clan tag both herny and outcast (from what herny was saying) seem to have no more requests. Herny said if we remove our tags and change our name then all of this bad blood between the clans is finished, we would be at peace. Im mean idk about that..........

Apparently (according to herny) both himself and outcast are gutted, outcast feels like he has lost everything and herny too feels the same, herny said "i dont know why you still fight for the tag, you have taken everything else, you have so many more members, we have nothing". he went on to say "you have won the war, you have all the members, all the people, your in a better position than us on the server ratings, outcast has nothing, u are at such an advantage now, havent you made your point?,". he also said "you should at least give him back what is his, the tag is all he has left. All of you have now left ATS so leave the name behind with you and give it to its rightfull owner".

Apparently according to herny even outcast himself has said he feels that he has lost and we have won, he just wants to have his name back and have us change ours and then all of us can be at peace, i know that all of us here love ATS, our clan tag, and the connection that ATS implies between all of us, so changing our name would be no small thing and I know that most of us here are against it.

I tried to explain to herny that outcast left us, and that all we were trying to do was save it, then outcast comes back laying claim to everything which we have tried to rebuild. Herny said that it wasnt the point, rebuilding it is fine, but we shouldnt have rebuilt it as ATS, we should have used a different name. I said but it was ATS that we were trying so hard to defend for all of us, that why we rebuilt it, to stay true to the name and the tag!

I went on to say "outcast deleted the forums and reset the server, he screwed us, he didnt tell us anything how can u ask us to be happy about that?". Herny then replied "he didnt do it to screw u, he didnt tell you because he was on holiday after he did it. Then he said "Do you know anything about the other three?" i said "the other three?". Herny said "yes there were three forum before the one you guys were on." "The forums were previous generations of ATS, all of the three forum before you guys different generations of ATS, they were outcasts and at the end of each generation he deleted the forum and made a new one". (now i didnt know anything about this) But herny said "After every generation it was fine all of the people went to the new forum with outcast and started again, you guys are the only ones in four generations to do what you have done, everybody else was fine, so why has your generation done as what they have?"

Anyway after this herny just said he was sick of the whole thing and it was really getting him down, and that him and outcast just want to put an end to it asap. Outcast of course wants his clan tag back but other than that he says wants peace.

herny also asked my to deliver him a message, it is a message of apology. he said he is really sorry for everything he has said and done on our server and forum and he sencerly apologies for it, he said he feels really bad and hopes we can accept that.

I think herny is a good guy so im happy to accept that but others idk.......

Anyways most of this stuff is what we already know but i just though i would relay to you my goings on tonight, and what is happening on their server. And how herny and outcast feel and what there immediate hopes and requests are.

They want to put an end to it, but outcast wants his tag, neither want there to be two ATS's any longer so they say that if we could give up ur tag then that would be then end of it.

herny is looking into taking matters into his own hand by seeking meetings with nick and hektor an maybe more people very soon.

Herny seems positively and genuinely sick, he told me that him and sebbat have been having discussion because they both want to find a diplomatic solution to the mess he feels we are all in, he said that he wants to meet with nick and hektor (possibly with outcast) to discuss and remedies he can think of to the problem.

That is real, he wanted to talk with nick hek me max and him, not outcast.

This is very good news, Phoenix. Thank you for being so diplomatic with them, and props to them for being so diplomatic in return. I'm really happy to hear that they want peace. Knowing this, I am looking forward to speaking with Outcast and the others; it sounds like it may be very productive.

I will say the trust.. herny and the others doesnt want again ATS with our memners and the other members, they want to change our name but maybe in that talk we can have good news and maybe a solution about our problems.

That may be sebbat, but if they are as willing to be peaceful as Phoenix's post implies, then once we have discussed the issue respectfully, I see no reason members from both sides couldn't "swap places." If we stand for the same core values, and we recognize that the other side wants only fun and peace as well, then the only real difference between us is administration. If this is the case, people can choose whether they want to be led by someone who some say is wise, or by members they elect themselves. There are valid reasons for either, and I wouldn't hold it against anyone who chooses either way.

well... i dont really see it as good or bad news...they just recently made the list of exiles...their server ranking rose from 22 to 15 again.

that doesnt seem very honest to me, but calculating.

i think basically they are acting nice now, so that we finally change our name and done. that is all they wanted before and now...they maybe have now seen that they cannot convince us with their propagandistic attacking way... but its only a tactic

as long as i see myself banned from theire forums, and others too, or even banned rom their server; as long as i see them treating us like rebels; as long as i dont see any public announcement of outcast, that he lost here his community, and only fews stayed, and that obviously HE was the reason for that loss; as long as i dont see such things, i cannot believe that that was a progress

That may be sebbat, but if they are as willing to be peaceful as Phoenix's post implies, then once we have discussed the issue respectfully, I see no reason members from both sides couldn't "swap places." If we stand for the same core values, and we recognize that the other side wants only fun and peace as well, then the only real difference between us is administration. If this is the case, people can choose whether they want to be led by someone who some say is wise, or by members they elect themselves. There are valid reasons for either, and I wouldn't hold it against anyone who chooses either way.

Everyone makes the choices they believe are best at the time.

Yeah i mean im very unsure about our next step from here, I didnt go on outcasts server yesterday with the notion of being peacefull and diplomatic, however outcasts lack of enthusiasm for arguement and disagreement, i wouldnt say i respected it, but in a way it did humble me a little. Now most of the things that i ive but in the above topic were said from herny not outcast himself so im not sure how much of this true and we know that sometimes outcast can be a little sinister, however if it is all true im not sure where we go from now.

It does appear however that should we be willing to change our clan tag and give outcast it back then all else would be forgotton, we would be at peace, the banned would be unbanned and we would be able to co-exsist in harmony. And i really does seem that their ATS is sick of the arguement and just want it all over so they and us can get on with our lives.

Now herny for one is extremely unhappy at the moment and i do kind of feel sorry for him because he is a good guy. But i just dont know what we can do to remedy the situation without making too much of a radical decision.

But ive been thinking about our clan tag, yes we love ATS, and yes it is the bond that brought us all together, but in a way herny is right, the bonds that we all share now wouldnt change even if we changed our name. I know most of us are very reluctant and apprehensive to change our clan tag but i wounder sometimes why this is, is it because we cant think of a suitable name to change it too? Or is it because we think the ATS clan tag is great and we all want to keep it? Or is it just because we are all in the habit of wearing it and dont want to change it because any other name would seem alien and unfimiar?

Sometimes i think that if we were to change it wouldnt be so bad, sure it would take a little bit of getting used to but im sure in time we could grow to love a new tag just as much.

Ok this isnt a proposal it is simply an inflammatory thought so please dont think i am immediatly suggesting that we change our name however.

If we are to change or clan tag it wouldnt have to be that different, we could change ]=XXX=[ to something like }-XXX-{. we could keep our stars and flames ect.... that wouldnt be a problem. Our slogans could still stand the way they are.

Also we would need to change our name to something that represents the situation we are in, something that represents us leaving outcast, something that still implies meaning amongst us, and something that we could all relate to.

So here's a few thoughts:

New Age KnightsNew Age ExilesNew Age Legacy

Personally i like New Age Legacy, because it represents the current ATS legacy we are all fighting to uphold. By changing it to NAL it still has meaning, we are ATS of a new age, creating a new legacy. We are still who we are, we are not a warped different clan, we are the same clan adding new meaning to our mission and future. That way our clan would be under a different name, and it would now be our clan, our own personal clan with which we can begin making new history. But we havent changed anything really, everything else stays the same, we are just taking a step forward in what we may call..........EVOLUTION.

Regardless of what name we go by, our friendships, loyalties and mission and the bonds forged between us remain the same, is it such a huge sacrifice if we could truely obtain peace?

So basically we would change from : ]=ATS=[~Phoenix To : }-NAL-{~Phoenix

This is a mere suggestion, many of us still want to stay ATS, all im trying to do is though possible solutions into the hat.

If anybody else has other suggestions please throw them into the hat as well.

I am pleased nick in in support of finding a solution, this one i have suggested may seem too radical, we will see.

I wanted to put more than this but i have forgotton some points so i may edit this post again later with further reasons and suggestions.

well... i dont really see it as good or bad news...they just recently made the list of exiles...their server ranking rose from 22 to 15 again.

that doesnt seem very honest to me, but calculating.

i think basically they are acting nice now, so that we finally change our name and done. that is all they wanted before and now...they maybe have now seen that they cannot convince us with their propagandistic attacking way... but its only a tactic

as long as i see myself banned from theire forums, and others too, or even banned rom their server; as long as i see them treating us like rebels; as long as i dont see any public announcement of outcast, that he lost here his community, and only fews stayed, and that obviously HE was the reason for that loss; as long as i dont see such things, i cannot believe that that was a progress

btw: long post phoenix XD

so... as long as they arent able to stop they're lies and attacking attitude it would be suicide...i dont believe in this... that is in my opion only strategy... if they were willing to have peace they would stop degrading us.

read the news:

Outcast wrote:

All the radical change that was made on the website and server are served to see who the real ATS as these new members do not know can handle it and use it wrong.Some thought that we had hacked the site and the server, it was obvious nobody knew. While others took advantage of saying that was the work of other clans cheaters who did all this and that ATS was hacked completely. Surprise! for those who thought about that xDDThe 4 active founders Maximus Gich Huracan and I are like each year developing ideas and keep out cheaters pseudoclans, protecting future generations, because today more than 75 percent of the players today use some cheat to play.

A fundamental reason for the expulsions supported by all the founders was the behavior and the chronic lack of Hektor.The desire for power, always wanting to win at any cost, the ambition to learn tricks that are not part of the game led up to this radical decision.Here is one of the main reasons for a high ATS board member was expelled from the clan for life.This time we recruit +15 old age precautionary only, but with a better criterion.Use of the Admin Heal has the maximum penalty if it applies for any person in duel. Really disappointing.

We recommend not to go where pseudoclanes servers take advantage of this situation and not only can this have an advanced level or HC. Well this is configurable at any level and many pseudoclans use fake names on their own server to mourn and apply this to their own partners or "friends" inclusive.ATS has seen much over time to know these things.

(this is interesting too, how he says that new thoughts and new spirits are SOOOO good... and downgrading us -.-: )

Outcast wrote:

This map is too full for duels and much fun. It has fulfilled many expectations in surprising geniality functions implemented by our good friend Abrum.As time passes new players are bringing fresh ideas to enable uptake and also an idea leads to another idea.JK2and other games, has the potential to change the virtual world whereeveryone plays, and it's exciting to play on maps where for the firsttime we are fascinated with this game.

well, they dont stop making us bad... doesnt sound for freedomit is only a behaviour they show to make us feel, like we had to change the name, or that we really stole something...

but we didnt

i would like to hear from outcast anwers to these question:

"Did you make ATS for urself or for the JK2-Players"if he confirms that he did it for himself, he should change his name... because THAT isnt fair... he is only then here to get his feeling of POWER... and MORE POWERif he doesnt confirm, still lying, he shall explain me, how he can ban and downgrade all these JK2-players if he made that clan for them

i want finally clear words, and clear behaviour with real content, and the real background... he still only uses big, empty phrases, and lies to enfore his influence! he really does!

i cant see any thruth behind his will to make peace.

he knows, that when we change our name, he considere himself as the winner... we were rebels, we did something new, something which isnt ats...but in fact, we CREATED ATS how it is supposed to be: fair play and respect... not tyranny and greed. (and contradictions ^^)

there is NO need for is to change the name, it is like stating that he is right... but he isnt...i am always for being the one giving in in the end... but not, if it means to lose ur self while doing it... it would be suicide... and suicide is worst thing to do... (and i am not even religious ^^)

outcast blinded alot of ppl, like maximus tried again, as he posted here first time... read the answers to his post... read them, many ppl were blinded by his big words, giving him trust again, until i criticised it... and then all had to show their real faces...

Dont get blinded... see the facts... and even if u let my opinion out of this, you cant deny, that there are facts listed by me, leading to my conclusion...

But thats point xaso, you say changing our name would be proving that outcast has been right all along but that isnt nessassarly so, we are in the drivers seat, we are winning the war, he knows it, they all want it to be over, their only request before we can secure peace is that we change the name. Ok i know that should we do that it would be a big step for all of us but that is why i suggested the above change, (new age legacy NAL). Because it means we are not abandoning our ATS name, we are simply evolving. The name implies the meaning of what we are doing, why we have spilt from Outcast and what our new mission is. The legacy, is the ATS legacy that we now what to take to greater highs and New Age of course realates to the fact that we what to create a bright future and extending our success in rebuiding ATS even further. All of the traits still stand, all of our feeling, friendships, morals and loyalties are not altered by this.

Herny kind of has a point, we have everything, we are superior to outcast now, we have all the members, all the friendships and all the success, outcast in comparison has very little, because our server attracts much more people and we are better liked than by other clans than he is. But herny says outcast doesnt want to fight anymore, has no problem with our success, our loyalty to this clan, the fact that we have created a greats legacy than he has. He just wants his tag back and all else will be forgotton, the exiles will be allowed to participate on his server if they want, and we will all be at peace.

Im not saying giving the tag up is the right thing to do, but it is an option to be kept in the back of ones mind. I just dont know, i too an at loss to find a solution where we are all happy without making too many sacrifces.

rhere is a basic misunderstanding: you take the WORDS of them for truth... saying that they want peace and sobut i dont believe it... they lie oftne enough, and their actions prove too, that they apparently dont want peace...they only want to downgrade us... and our namechange would mean, that weARE a different clan... those lies are only another trick to get us under control...i want to see finally that their ACTIONS and WORDS fit together ...

well... maybe an update on this:outcast unbanned us from his forum, made a topic where we can crawl again back to his knees... he is collecting his sheep again...no apology... no understanding words... only big words... and for that even gich and huracan made a post...you can go on their website. you are unbanned

Meh... after my entire history with herny in jk2, he has time and time again, given me reasons to not trust him and give me reasons to dislike him. He's just trying to make you feel sorry for him, and trying to use pity to try and get something from us. He lies constantly without any second though most of the time, I've tried to put the past behind me and give him the benefit of the doubt, several times. And I think the only reason he didn't ban Pho on the spot is that because he "has a kid attitude" and that "he is a new member and doesn't understand history of ATS"... I really don't think we should trust them, or at least not herny. Think of all the times he has lied for his own benefit so he can go right around our backs again. The actions he has taken are all pointing to one fact, he is a blatant liar who acts before he thinks, and acts through frustration and pure hate for the opposition. I not trusting that guy anymore.

As for Outcast, this guy doesn't want to admit when he's wrong, so since he doesn't want to listen at all, whats the point? Him and his "followers" will die out in jk2 soon enough, I noticed it already starting to happen before he left... my guess is that it will take the same course as long as they keep their ways the same.

Thats true..Outcast its maybe a little..teah lets say it..stupid...but hes still being a coward dont forget that he never get out of his server where he has power overthise who opposse him...remember he never gave any explanation or even dueled with someone arguing they scripted,cheated or traying to look mature by saying it was a loss of time...the only way he beated some of us was by laming us...so yeah that guy wasnt outcast

There's no use talking about potential names right now. The whole clan needs to decide to change our name before we even talk about what that name would be, and after that we would talk about names for a long, long time.

This next paragraph is spoken from the context of their desire to have me at this hypothetical meeting. My language is in no way meant to imply that I hold more authority than any of the rest of you.

Even before we would decide to change our name, it would be based on many conditions for Outcast's ATS. If I were to engage him and others diplomatically, they would have to give a lot of ground involving attitude, banning procedure, etc. before I would say I would bring the topic of changing our name back to the rest of our clan. Even in the event that we reached this point, I would make sure that we still have access to this forum domain name in the event they break their promises or we change our mind. There's nothing that I would be willing to offer them that we couldn't take back ourselves, because they have in the past and still lie about a lot of things. I don't make myself vulnerable in real life or in debate, and I certainly wouldn't make our clan vulnerable either. As Mereel knows from my talks with Max in the past, just because I'm diplomatic doesn't mean I throw out appeasing compromises or concede valid points. Calm can be strength.

As some have said, we are in the position of power here. Luckily for them, we are nice guys and are willing to try to reach peaceful conclusions. But that doesn't mean we are naive, and we certainly would not leave any outcome in their hands.

In the event that we do change our name, the change would have to be valuable to us. I can't think of any proper moral reason to do it only for them.

Well said nick, some great points there. The condition in which i came up with idea of name change was only under the basis that outcast was being completely humble and honest, anything other than that from him and, any proposals we may consider from his behalf would fall through. As we know what he says and what he does are completly different things. So yes diplomacy is the way forward but we need to keep firm about our goals and not let ourselves be compromised by any arguement or agreement, if it means we must make sacrifices that disadvange our clan in any way. If we agree to co-operate then we co-operate on our terms, and prioritise in doing what is best of our clan first. We must not be unfair, but basically we have to make sure we will always have the final say. +karma nick

@grimlore, we are talking about changing our clan name, not yours mate.

Outcast is unbanning you all, even letting you back in if you wish to rejoin. He also mentions that admin may someday still be obtainable. He said this because Phoenix inspired me to talk to Outcast for your side, while maintaining my rank and loyalty. All 4 founders/leaders have agreed to this formally, you can find this in print on the forum if you wish.

I hope I made a good difference, I know there are some good things about what you want, maybe while I am a member things will be different while you all, as members even. If anyone wishes to rejoin, I'm sure that with my words Outcast will come to trust you again, hopefully you will all have a brand new voice.