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Looks to me like there is a HUGE amount of information we are not getting... AND... a HUGE amount of lies being spun out with great force and intention...
IMO one can guess the amount of corruption being hidden by the intensity of lies and spin surrounding the issue... and this one is a WHOPPER!

What is really a shame: If the Public really wanted to... they could DEMAND the truth be found. But they will not.

And the lies stack higher and higher and higher... and corruption become even more deeply entrenched.

One has to REMOVE the bad tooth... one cannot just keep taking pain killers and putting crowns on it.

Brian... seems you are more of an eye witness to what goes on in LA with the LAPD... Personally I have a number of friends here in Atlanta who are from LA and agree with your assessment of the situation; LAPD is one of the most corrupt LE outfits in the country.

Just a side note: Seems I remember a Clint Eastwood movie about this: Magnum Force. Wonder if the movie was made to expose something?

Now for the what is IMO the big question: in a so called democracy; the public gets what they vote for. At least that is the way it is supposed to be. SO:
Why is this LAPD mess the way it is? Did the public vote for this... or does democracy not work as it should in LA... or are too few folks involved enough (read that informed and voting every election) to make a difference... Our country will self-destruct if we allow this kind of cr*p to go on without oversight.

The founders tried to build a country which was not susceptible to this mess... yet we are too smart (lazy, arrogant, intellectual, take your pick) to study what they had in mind and pay heed to the founding documents. And look at the mess we have as a result.

Brian... seems you are more of an eye witness to what goes on in LA with the LAPD... Personally I have a number of friends here in Atlanta who are from LA and agree with your assessment of the situation; LAPD is one of the most corrupt LE outfits in the country.

Just a side note: Seems I remember a Clint Eastwood movie about this: Magnum Force. Wonder if the movie was made to expose something?

Now for the what is IMO the big question: in a so called democracy; the public gets what they vote for. At least that is the way it is supposed to be. SO:
Why is this LAPD mess the way it is? Did the public vote for this... or does democracy not work as it should in LA... or are too few folks involved enough (read that informed and voting every election) to make a difference... Our country will self-destruct if we allow this kind of cr*p to go on without oversight.

The founders tried to build a country which was not susceptible to this mess... yet we are too smart (lazy, arrogant, intellectual, take your pick) to study what they had in mind and pay heed to the founding documents. And look at the mess we have as a result.

So far I have not heard any outrage aimed at the mayor or city council. Just the LAPD. Meanwhile, Dorner gets himself a huge fan club.

Seems to me the Dorner fans should be calling for heads to roll [figure of speech] at the city government level if they are so unhappy with the LAPD.

As for the LAPD handling of Dorner, however they went about it they did fire the guy and in hindsight that seems like the correct move by the LAPD. I think he was also booted from the Nat. Guard. I am a little curious who knew what and when, but if he wasn't doing anything criminal there is not much anyone could do but fire him I suppose.

"You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

"I am not here to rescue you, I am bringing you along for emergency rations" Quark.

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So far I have not heard any outrage aimed at the mayor or city council. Just the LAPD. Meanwhile, Dorner gets himself a huge fan club.

Seems to me the Dorner fans should be calling for heads to roll [figure of speech] at the city government level if they are so unhappy with the LAPD.

As for the LAPD handling of Dorner, however they went about it they did fire the guy and in hindsight that seems like the correct move by the LAPD. I think he was also booted from the Nat. Guard. I am a little curious who knew what and when, but if he wasn't doing anything criminal there is not much anyone could do but fire him I suppose.

Seems to me the more a political organization tries to spin something (read that the more hype in the media)... the more they are either trying to hide or the more heads are on the block.

Regardless... there is a LOT we do not know... so to make an opinion about Dorner being the bad guy... or LAPD being corrupt (well the latter is a given... the question is how much)... well we do not have enough information to determine the truth.

Personally... I smell a cover-up of governmental proportions... probably lots of 'someones' careers are in jeopardy... IMO wise to NOT make assumptions of guilt and innocence until we know more.
As noted earlier... what proof do we have Dormer shot the couple... What proof do we have he shot the cops... what proof do we have the manifesto has not been altered? Lots of questions to be answered.
What I do see is a STRONG campaign to sidestep justice (rule of law and innocent until proven guilty beyond any reasonable doubt by a court of 12 jurors of peers). The frenzy in the media to shape/form public opinion is almost as strong as when BHO wants legislation passed.

IMO there is a lesson here: When ANY politician gets on a wagon... expect there to be more at stake than is being told.

Funny all we have is the murderer Dorner's account of why he has gone off the deep end. I for one will wait till the rest of the story is in before I assume that he was screwed in the firing or not. Maybe so maybe it is all in his imagination that he was wronged. We shouldn't just assume he was wrongly dealt with. That is my comment and anyhow he deserves the death penalty now that is for sure. Thank you, thank you very much

"I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."
"I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."Barry Goldwater

Now for the what is IMO the big question: in a so called democracy; the public gets what they vote for. At least that is the way it is supposed to be. SO:
Why is this LAPD mess the way it is? Did the public vote for this... or does democracy not work as it should in LA... or are too few folks involved enough (read that informed and voting every election) to make a difference... Our country will self-destruct if we allow this kind of cr*p to go on without oversight.

The founders tried to build a country which was not susceptible to this mess... yet we are too smart (lazy, arrogant, intellectual, take your pick) to study what they had in mind and pay heed to the founding documents. And look at the mess we have as a result.

I just KNEW that I wasn't the only one thinking this.

Perhaps, the people have gotten the government and the police force that they deserve.

They've elected their rulers and now they can live in serfdom as they're subjugated to a police state.

I'm glad that I don't live in California and any vacation plans I've ever had to the wacky west coast have been permanently cancelled.

Perhaps, the people have gotten the government and the police force that they deserve.

They've elected their rulers and now they can live in serfdom as they're subjugated to a police state.

I'm glad that I don't live in California and any vacation plans I've ever had to the wacky west coast have been permanently cancelled.

IMO there may be a serious amount of truth in the idea the folks of LA have the govt they deserve... Some contemplative thought about society in that area might suggest some curious things...
There are some SERIOUSLY wealthy folks in the area... amounts of $$$ not easily imagined. These folks tend to expect to have the power to influence govt as they please... I wonder sometimes if this is part of what goes on in LA??? Perhaps the elite WANT the workers held in submission??? Would not surprise me.

As to them electing the rulers and now they live in semi-serfdom... my study of history would suggest you are probably right JP... It is beyond my understanding folks voluntarily vote for serfdom... however there are endless examples of it; even in modern history.

Here is another thought: Cal has a kinda unique state govt style... those initiatives we hear about (Prop ___). The voters can vote for or against anything they choose... yet the results are comical:
OToneH (on the one hand); Folks vote FOR this or that 'cool' green idea... yet they vote AGAINST funding for it... and these are educated folks... many have graduate degrees. Do they think the $$$ to do these things grows on trees?
OTotherH (this time on the other hand); The same folks will vote AGAINST govt managing things in a timely and fiscally responsible way... yet again vote FOR something which is not realistic (even with deficit spending).

While I think the idea of voters making proposition decisions is kinda an interesting model... there seems to be a serious disconnect between requests from the voters and commitments to pay from the voters... Curious system.

One thing I see: Businesses are leaving Cal in droves... many go to Texas where there is economic freedom... Some say this is the reason Texas never felt the recession.... much less suffered from it.