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On a more serious note, although hep C is not generally considered a sexually transmitted infection, there is growing evidence that hiv positive men who have sex with men are more susceptible to the sexual transmission of hep C.

It's worth noting that this study took place in Europe and so far, there is no evidence that the same is happening in the States. However, that may be because the phenomenon has not yet been looked at in depth in the States.

If you're barebacking with people other than a monogamous partner, it's worth keeping in mind and testing regularly - at least annually - for hcv. Anyone who is hiv positive should be regularly screened for hcv anyway.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

It's worth noting that this study took place in Europe and so far, there is no evidence that the same is happening in the States. However, that may be because the phenomenon has not yet been looked at in depth in the States.

There were a few reports of groupings in NYC, but I think it's a bit early to draw much of a conclusion. Like any of these things where you have to do interviews of sexual practices with people that infected, I'm often left wondering about how reliable it is. But we'll see.

Of course, as always the worriers will seize on this as a reason to wrap their entire body in cellophane.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

my hep c is barely active (?). we weren't able to get enough of the hcv from my blood to do any tests after my last draw

It could be that you've cleared the virus on your own (around 20% of people infected with hcv will). You should get another hvc VL sometime in the New Year. If you're undetectable, chances are good this is the case with you. If you were not completely undetectable when the last hcv VL was taken, it could be that it was a new infection that your body was in the process of clearing. You should be having a hcv VL taken no less than once a year anyway, until such time as you've been undetectable for a few years, either through your own body clearing it or through treatment.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

My doctor was telling me after I got diagnosed with HIV is that I shouldn't worry about it so much. She said "If you had Hepatitis C" you would have more issues with it. (Not quite sure what she meant)

She even said that Hep C people wish they had HIV rather then Hep C. So I wonder what causes more symptoms. Basically my good friend who is in medical also said that Hepatitis C is usually more bothersome to deal with then HIV. Anyone heard of that.

She even said that Hep C people wish they had HIV rather then Hep C. So I wonder what causes more symptoms. Basically my good friend who is in medical also said that Hepatitis C is usually more bothersome to deal with then HIV. Anyone heard of that.

I'm not sure about the desease's symtoms, I've read/heard its even more "silent" then HIV. But my doctor told be the treatment is a bitch. Some type of interferon that has severe side effects, including psychological/psychiatric effects that make sustiva look good.

I have had a few poz partners after diagnosis that were being treated for HIV and had no other STD. We have practiced unprotected sex. None of us has had a rebound in viral load or any other health problem. With occasional partners I always have protected sex which did not prevent me from catching gonorrhea once.

I am glad to see Dr Sanjay Bhagani, top UK hep C doc saying many infections could probably be attributed to injecting drug use rather than sex. I have been advocating this position for 2 years.

This said, I think the Q of hep C transmission in gay men is unsettled. I personally do not think unprotected fucking is enough in itself based on research to date, unless it's a technically inept n bloody shag. But the jury, strictly speaking, is still out.

And yes, I would rather have HIV than hep C, even tho there is a chance of a cure with the latter.

Yer, I live in a town where syphilis is "rife" - the blokes I shag, we all get tested ultra regular and around the same time (we have syncronised, yikes) and compare notes, unusual but the way to go -- odd to come to the realisation you live in a petri dish in the age of civil partnerships. Condoms, alas, not hugely protective of syphilis, very bad for poz folk to get this, depletes CD4 count. - matt

I have had a few poz partners after diagnosis that were being treated for HIV and had no other STD. We have practiced unprotected sex. None of us has had a rebound in viral load or any other health problem. With occasional partners I always have protected sex which did not prevent me from catching gonorrhea once.

Thanks, Ann, for posting the links about how gay HIV+ men may be "more susceptible to the sexual transmission of hep C," and thanks, matt, for pointing out that "hep C transmission in gay men is unsettled," and that "the jury...is still out."

I wanted to post those links myself, but being an old fart and a coward, I refrained from from being the first to do so. I just knew I would be accused of wrapping my "entire body in cellophane." Of course, I do admit that I go through 1,000,000 cubic feet of Saran Wrap a week, but that's neither here nor there. No one would care one way or the other.

Whoa, Nellie, bar the door: I just cannot understand--what with hep C, syphilis, gonorrhea, etc.--why the use of a condom is so destructive to "intimacy" in these parlous times. Of course, I fully understand why the issue has generally failed in safer-sex regimens for those who are HIV- or do not know. This is an issue that can be debated ad nauseam, but if someone is already HIV+, why would someone do something that could be extremely deleterious to one's health? Why would one take the chance of acquiring an additional virus that might result in cirrhosis of the liver, liver failure, and the need for a liver transplant?

What is the difference between sero-sorting withough taking safer-sex precautions and refusing to take HAART?

« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 03:39:57 AM by edfu »

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"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Whoa, Nellie, bar the door: I just cannot understand--what with hep C, syphilis, gonorrhea, etc.--why the use of a condom is so destructive to "intimacy" in these parlous times. Of course, I fully understand why the issue has generally failed in safer-sex regimens for those who are HIV- or do not know. This is an issue that can be debated ad nauseam, but if someone is already HIV+, why would someone do something that could be extremely deleterious to one's health? Why would one take the chance of acquiring an additional virus that might result in cirrhosis of the liver, liver failure, and the need for a liver transplant?

What is the difference between sero-sorting withough taking safer-sex precautions and refusing to take HAART?

Are these really parlous times? Don't seem like it to me.

I don't think issues with safer-sex/condom usage somehow magically disappear once you become positive.

I do think you're overstating the risk of HCV transmission via sex, which as far as I can interpretate (both from personal data and this bash of unbiased data above that you reference) is that it unconnected with bloodless sex/drugs.

And, there is a huge difference between sero-sorting sans condoms and refusing to take HAART.

In reference to hep C: It has not yet been firmly established that it is NOT transmitted through unprotected anal sex having nothing to do with fisting (which is indeed a recognized transmission factor, along with intravenous drug-taking). If the level of hep C in the semen of the insertive HIV+ partner is high, why it wouldn't it be as dangerous, if not more so, as semen from an insertive HIV+ partner with detectable viral load to an HIV- partner?

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"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

I am familiar with the word, thanks. Just think it's an exaggeration of the world we live in and the risk that exist.

Quote

If the level of hep C in the semen of the insertive HIV+ partner is high, why it wouldn't it be as dangerous, if not more so, as semen from an insertive HIV+ partner with detectable viral load to an HIV- partner?

Is this a genuine question or are you making an assumption that HCV must be easily transmitted via "normal" sex?

From what I gather (reading the above) links and general discussion on HCV, that while HCV can be found in semen, it's not conclusive whether exchange of semen transmits HCV. If it were easily transmitted, wouldn't there be a lot more co-infected people? Wouldn't HCV be much more common?

I don't know if it's consistent across all areas, but I think my clinic tests everyone, regardless of whether they consistently use condoms or not, once a year. The battery of tests includes test for other STDs as well (along with measuring immunity to the other HVs).

My doctor was telling me after I got diagnosed with HIV is that I shouldn't worry about it so much. She said "If you had Hepatitis C" you would have more issues with it. (Not quite sure what she meant)

She even said that Hep C people wish they had HIV rather then Hep C. So I wonder what causes more symptoms. Basically my good friend who is in medical also said that Hepatitis C is usually more bothersome to deal with then HIV. Anyone heard of that.

I'd rather have hep C. I have had hep C. However, I wouldn't want hcv genotype 1b as this seems to be one of the most difficult to treat. I had genotype 3a and was treated in 2002-03 and as my hcv VL has been undetectable since around ten weeks into treatment, I've been declared cured. My last hcv VL was taken sometime earlier this year. More info about genotypes can be found here.

I had hep C for around 13 years before I became poz and I didn't have one single symptom of hep C until that time. After hiv seroconversion, I had all sorts of problems that couldn't be attributed to hiv but could be attributed to hcv. Coinfection with hiv is known to accelerate hcv progression in some people, and it did in me.

The treatment for hcv really sucks, but if it gets rid of it, it's worth it. Although nowdays they recommend treating genotype 3a for 24 weeks, I did it for 52 and if I had to do it all over again, I'd do a year again. My hiv-neg ex-husband also has genotype 3a and he only treated for 24 weeks and his virus came back on him. He refuses to try the treatment again. (wimp)

Some type of interferon that has severe side effects, including psychological/psychiatric effects that make sustiva look good.

The big difference between having side-effects from hiv meds and having side-effects from hcv meds is that you're only going to be on the hcv meds for a year. Knowing that, and knowing the meds were working, is what kept me taking them, regardless of side-effects. And let me tell you, the side-effects were pretty shitty.

The type of interferon is pegylated interferon alfa. Pegylated means that it's been formulated to stay in the system for longer. Before pegylated interferon, one had to inject three times a week. Pegylated interferon is injected once a week. Yes, that's right, you have to inject yourself. Interferon makes you feel like you have the flu. It's the same stuff your own body produces when you're ill and it's what triggers fevers and muscle aches etc. It's also produced by the body during hiv seroconversion - hence the ARS flu-like symptoms.

Interferon is a cytokine, a specific protein that is no stranger to the human body. In fact, the human body is constantly making interferon, and makes even greater amounts when trying to fight off an intruder, such as a virus. People experience this when suffering with the flu. When sick with the flu, the body makes extra interferon to defeat the virus causing the illness. The extra interferon causes symptoms such as fever, nausea, achy and sore muscles, joint pain and fatigue. This is called an antiviral effect. Interferon therapy is currently the gold standard in treatment for certain types of hepatitis B and C. source

The drug taken during hep C treatment that causes psychological side effects is Ribavirin. There's a pretty good run-down of Ribavirin side-effects here, and I had them all except for nausea and vomiting and neutropenia. One side-effect they don't mention is the all-pervasive brainfog. I was lucky I could remember my own name some days, and ordinary things like chairs and tables became "thingies" and "whatsits". I call that year my black-hole year, because it's like a hazy, bad dream.

Actually, there's around three times more people living with hep C than hiv. Even so, it's not thought to be normally sexually transmitted - although it does happen sometimes. It IS very easy to transmit (for example) in a medical setting where equipment hasn't been cleaned and sterilised properly. Unlike hiv, hcv can remain able to infect when outside the body and on environmental surfaces. This is why I refuse to go to a dentist who claims I have to have the last appointment of the day so that the equipment can be sterilised properly. Just like hiv, many people who have hcv don't know it. As I'm far more likely to get hep C from shoddily sterilised equipment than hiv, they can stuff their last appointment of the day. If a dentist can't be bothered to treat the equipment he uses on all people the same, I'll go elsewhere.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Look, as far as I know there's a high prevalence of Hep C infection among non-injecting drug users, and knowing how many queens are out there snorting this and that every weekend and doing so in large groups where sharing of straws and pipes happens I think some of us here should probably be focusing on that phenomena instead of insisting folks are getting it from normal non-blood inducing anal sex. I'd also think this accounts for much of the "clustering" of cases in large cities with large partying gay populations.

Why isn't this being mentioned here? If you're going to party and snort things then do not share stuff.

Furthermore, keep in mind that when people are diagnosed with Hep C they're more likely to state that they had anal sex then they are to state they were using drugs (even if it didn't involve a needle) or engaged in fisting.

Well Miss P, I did mean to mention that in my last post above when I talked about hep C being able to be transmitted from objects in the environment, but I forgot. Do I get a spanking? If not, why not?

It's true, it's true, it's true. Sharing straws or other snorting implements has been implicated in hep C transmission. I believe there's more evidence across the board to support this transmission vector than there is to support sexual transmission.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Well Miss P, I did mean to mention that in my last post above when I talked about hep C being able to be transmitted from objects in the environment, but I forgot. Do I get a spanking? If not, why not?

It's true, it's true, it's true. Sharing straws or other snorting implements has been implicated in hep C transmission. I believe there's more evidence across the board to support this transmission vector than there is to support sexual transmission.

Happy now, Missy?

Ann

Yeah, but my point here is that this board has so many gay guys on it and I dare say most of them have snorted at least coke once in their life (most of them have done it many more times than one) and they should know about not sharing a rolled up dollar bill or a cut off straw from Burger King. But yet we've got these insistent types that seem to think Hep C is going to be magically solved with condom use.

But my larger point is that seeing how hardly anybody focused on this transmission route in this thread, and seeing as how evidently everyone is so worried about getting Hep C while infected simultaneously with HIV, then we look not very much further why people are getting Hep C in addition to HIV, even if they stopped using any drugs post-HIV diagnosis the Hep C from sharing straws might not show up for eons.

But yet we've got these insistent types that seem to think Hep C is going to be magically solved with condom use.

You're right, it's not. I've recommended to friends who like to engage in the occasional bit of nasal indulgence to carry their own straw. It doesn't really necessarily help to use your own rolled up paper money, because who knows who had it up their nose before you. Given the high rate of detectable cocaine on most currency, it's best to be prudent. I also recommend to said friends that they test for hep C occasionally. It's like hiv, I think everyone should be screened, but I guess that's just me.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

For syphillis you can take Zitromax (1 pill a day for 3 days)...But, restence to Zitromax is increasing, so make sure youclean your body with antimalaric Doxycicline for 14 days every two months... (if you have a very active sex life, that is)

HIV positive people are prone to fast progression of syphillis (3rd stage within a week or two has been reported ),so make sure take your antiS after date pills

As for HCV I'm scared of it. It's one of the reasons I'm not having sex. I don't need one more bug.

clean your body with antimalaric Doxycicline for 14 days every two months

Why? Doxycycline is a useful antibiotic and antimalarial and there's no reasons to take it if you don't have an infection

Quote

HIV positive people are prone to fast progression of syphilis

Perhaps. But there have been no prospective studies looking at this, just case reports of strange presentations. Is does seem likely the big S is more severe for people with HIV. But, worry, caution, yes fair enough, but not too much eh? It's not a common disease in general.

Perspective is important. Sex/intimacy is importantl. Life is risk v reward, and the rewards of intimate relationships and even sometimes a decent shag are valuable.

this thread is beginning to scare me. i was okay with my coinfection now i feel the need to reexamen the whole situation again.

D, don't let it scare you. Just make sure you're using plenty of lube to avoid damaging the thin lining of the rectum, whether your lubing up a dick or a dildo - or a fist or a cucumber for that matter. It seems to me that it's damage during anal sex that facilitates hep C transmission more than anything else. That's why fisting has been implicated. It's not that transmission is necessarily happening during the act of fisting, but rather during regular sex after the rectum has been damaged by fisting. The lining of the rectum is quite thin - treat it with tender loving care.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

D, don't let it scare you. Just make sure you're using plenty of lube to avoid damaging the thin lining of the rectum, whether your lubing up a dick or a dildo - or a fist or a cucumber for that matter. It seems to me that it's damage during anal sex that facilitates hep C transmission more than anything else. That's why fisting has been implicated. It's not that transmission is necessarily happening during the act of fisting, but rather during regular sex after the rectum has been damaged by fisting. The lining of the rectum is quite thin - treat it with tender loving care.

Ann

I don't think there's a problem with fisting with a proper latex glove. Oh right... silly me. I forgot how everyone here is allergic to latex (does that go for fists too?) ::rolls eyes::

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Before my recovery i would bb with poz guys coz i was off my face most of the time,but gladly i didnt get any STDs.Now am sober,i wouldnt bb with a poz unles in a relation.

After reading this thread and bb with my man for six months now after two visits with my doctor, sure am glad I am in a committed relationship. I know myself and my partner, we only bb, but we would never sleep with someone outside our relationship without bringing it up with the other. Not to be blunt, but we have dumped many loads in each other and my levels have been better than ever recently.

It may be a shock to some here but I hate condoms and will try anything to not wear one

I have found if my partner insist on a condom if I throw my intire body weight upon him and groan into his ear ... oh baby just let me stick it in a little bit and he will give in . It helps if I have bourbon and cigarettes on my breath . If that fails I just pinch the tip out of the condom and procede in my usual romantical way .

No shit ....when I was much younger this technique was tried on me ...the only ass he got was seeing mine walk out door . I must be freaky cuz they all like me .

I had a guy actually pinch the tip out of a condom . I know he did it because it was laying beside the bed ... if the condom had simply failed I don't think part of it would be in the floor by the bed .

If I was dating a guy that I really likes I would have safe sex if he wanted it, otherwise F that S. Have there been many cases of people catching more than one strain of HIV? If so I would think it would have sparked a new epidemic. Most Poz guys don't use condoms. If they did they wouldn't have gotten HIV. Plus I heard that exposing your system to other's HIV may strengthen your system.

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Pray God you can copeI know you have a little life in you yet. I know you have a lot of strength left.

Plus I heard that exposing your system to other's HIV may strengthen your system.

Seriously girl, is that the new pick up line on manhunt these days? Should I go prop my ass up in the Bear Room at Club Body Center every day this week and attempt to measure the accuracy of this claim? I mean *hello* my HIV clinic is around the corner, it's not a stretch to have my lab work done.

not to mention hep b reinfection is possible where i was with a friend that was reinfected 2 months after going to see the dr he was going down the path of being undetectable but the 3rd month the v/l shot back up to around 500,000 not to mention getting hep b as well , makes the job harder for the dr. as to strains as you mentioned my friend had to get a resistant test to see why the meds wasn't doing the job as the dr prescribed, as a result he had resistants