Hikohadon wrote:As long as you fuckers aren't trumpeting Johnny Douchebag, I'm good. I'll give anyone but that disaster a shot at this point.

+1

He's just a dumber version of Colt McCoy, and unlike Hiko I don't have a burning hatred of Colt McCoy, but for the love of God NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One of the dumbest things I've ever read. Manziel almost had as many rushing yards as a freshman that Colt had as a 4-year starter. Colt was one of the most accurate passers in college history and the main knock on Manziel is his accuracy. You can hate Manziel but to compare him to Colt is pure personal dislike, nothing having to do with football.

Hikohadon wrote:As long as you fuckers aren't trumpeting Johnny Douchebag, I'm good. I'll give anyone but that disaster a shot at this point.

Truth. His off the field issues make Josh Gordon look like a monk.

Hyperbole much? Josh Gordon was kicked out of school; Manziel was suspended for what, a quarter?

Not talking about the autographs. The guy is a legendary night before the game party machine. Ever wonder why he is so inconsistent from week to week? It's not the defenses. It's the magnitude of his hangover. Allegedly, of course.

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team

Hikohadon wrote:As long as you fuckers aren't trumpeting Johnny Douchebag, I'm good. I'll give anyone but that disaster a shot at this point.

Truth. His off the field issues make Josh Gordon look like a monk.

Hyperbole much? Josh Gordon was kicked out of school; Manziel was suspended for what, a quarter?

Not talking about the autographs. The guy is a legendary night before the game party machine. Ever wonder why he is so inconsistent from week to week? It's not the defenses. It's the magnitude of his hangover. Allegedly, of course.

Him and half of college football. The guy's last two games were his worst of the season, not coincidentally against 2 of his toughest opponents; seems pretty normal to me. Doesn't exactly scream inconsistency.

Hikohadon wrote:As long as you fuckers aren't trumpeting Johnny Douchebag, I'm good. I'll give anyone but that disaster a shot at this point.

Truth. His off the field issues make Josh Gordon look like a monk.

Hyperbole much? Josh Gordon was kicked out of school; Manziel was suspended for what, a quarter?

Not talking about the autographs. The guy is a legendary night before the game party machine. Ever wonder why he is so inconsistent from week to week? It's not the defenses. It's the magnitude of his hangover. Allegedly, of course.

Him and half of college football. The guy's last two games were his worst of the season, not coincidentally against 2 of his toughest opponents; seems pretty normal to me. Doesn't exactly scream inconsistency.

And fuck whoever is making me defend Johnny Manziel.

Fucking sorry I brought it up.

EOD we can all agree - don't draft the kid.

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team

Hikohadon wrote:As long as you fuckers aren't trumpeting Johnny Douchebag, I'm good. I'll give anyone but that disaster a shot at this point.

+1

He's just a dumber version of Colt McCoy, and unlike Hiko I don't have a burning hatred of Colt McCoy, but for the love of God NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One of the dumbest things I've ever read. Manziel almost had as many rushing yards as a freshman that Colt had as a 4-year starter. Colt was one of the most accurate passers in college history and the main knock on Manziel is his accuracy. You can hate Manziel but to compare him to Colt is pure personal dislike, nothing having to do with football.

First, fuck you.

Second, if you want to get into specifics, than here it is.You have an undersized Texas QB who, while mobile, is undersized. I liked McCoy because while he had his flaws, I thought he could read and react to defenses. I thought a good head coach could work with that. I don't think Manziel will be able to make the transition and it has nothing to do with his attitude and everything to do with him not being as football literate as I feel McCoy is.

In a nutshell my admittedly, umm, intuitive opinion is that he's gone from someone who about 2 months ago on the 1st page of this thread was ranked as the 127th prospect in this draft class, someone I was QUOTE intrigued by QUOTE as possibly being undervalued, to a Top 10, maybe even Top 5 pick--why exactly?

Smells like a drastic stock value overcorrection to me. Smells like 'Fourteen Ponder Shit. (<--Nirvana cover coming to an iPod near no one)

Yeah, he was intriguing as a 3rd or 4th rounder. Fuck the Top 10. Fuck the first round. Fuck the 2nd round...

Hikohadon wrote:With the list it is and without really having researched the players too much, I'd be fine with:1st (1st pick): Bridgewater, Carr, maaaaaaybe Hundley (if he comes out, which I doubt), I've seen his stock being a late 1st rounder.1st (2nd pick): Hundley2nd: McCarron (I guess), Grrrrappollo (I guess), Tajh Boyd, Mettenberger (I suppose)God, this has gotten ugly.

Yes. Get 'em all. If history is any indication, maybe ONE of them will be a Flacco or Alex Smith. (Catching lightning in a bottle and landing a Brees or a Rodgers is sheer folly for this sorry franchise.)

Hikohadon wrote:With the list it is and without really having researched the players too much, I'd be fine with:1st (1st pick): Bridgewater, Carr, maaaaaaybe Hundley (if he comes out, which I doubt), I've seen his stock being a late 1st rounder.1st (2nd pick): Hundley2nd: McCarron (I guess), Grrrrappollo (I guess), Tajh Boyd, Mettenberger (I suppose)God, this has gotten ugly.

Yes. Get 'em all. If history is any indication, maybe ONE of them will be a Flacco or Alex Smith. (Catching lightning in a bottle and landing a Brees or a Rodgers is sheer folly for this sorry franchise.)

Since Alex Smith was the #1 overall pick and plays, well, not like a #1 overall pick, I hope that whomever we draft is NOT an Alex Smith.

In a nutshell my admittedly, umm, intuitive opinion is that he's gone from someone who about 2 months ago on the 1st page of this thread was ranked as the 127th prospect in this draft class, someone I was QUOTE intrigued by QUOTE as possibly being undervalued, to a Top 10, maybe even Top 5 pick--why exactly?

Smells like a drastic stock value overcorrection to me. Smells like 'Fourteen Ponder Shit. (<--Nirvana cover coming to an iPod near no one)

Yeah, he was intriguing as a 3rd or 4th rounder. Fuck the Top 10. Fuck the first round. Fuck the 2nd round...

True, but there have been tons of QB's that make a huge in-season leap up the boards, and some of them actually deserve it. I get more scared when the leap takes place between February and April.

I look at David Carr and I liked everything about his game except his head. So if l'il bro can be David Carr with some balls, sure, fine, take a chance on that, I guess. Since I haven't watched him, I can't speak to if his leap is due to his stellar play or just a reaction to the increasing erosion of the position in the draft. Taking him reeks a little of desperation, but desperation is what I have a lot more of these days than patience.

Well, he's a Sr and his numbers have really only improved incrementally year by year, and his YouTubez don't yield anything that says NFL to me, so my inclination is to say that the ridiculous jump in his draft stock is due to position, overcorrection, and hype. At best, he stinks like one of those Beck/Kolb 2nd rounders that we may have the privilege to take in the Top 10 thanks to the stupid QB market in the NFL the past few years.

(Though, I guess even the NFL's QB Market is less stupid than a 10yr 240mil deal for a 31 year old, so I suppose that's swell or something.)

Mariota would have been my favorite of the bunch, so naturally he returns to school. Bridgewater's good but out of reach, absent an almost certainly ill-advised trade-up. Fuck Carr. Johnny Manziel has some stripper-girlfriend appeal but is almost certainly a bad idea. Hundley is scary raw. I'd be OK with McCarron in round 2, which probably means we'd have to use a Top 10 pick on him by the time May comes around. Mettenberger is terrible. If Boyd's really slid all the way to the 4th round (NFLDC has him at 112 at the moment), that's OK value for him, I suppose.

So for 2014 it's roll with Hoyer or get into the middle of that mess...

In a nutshell my admittedly, umm, intuitive opinion is that he's gone from someone who about 2 months ago on the 1st page of this thread was ranked as the 127th prospect in this draft class, someone I was QUOTE intrigued by QUOTE as possibly being undervalued, to a Top 10, maybe even Top 5 pick--why exactly?

Smells like a drastic stock value overcorrection to me. Smells like 'Fourteen Ponder Shit. (<--Nirvana cover coming to an iPod near no one)

Yeah, he was intriguing as a 3rd or 4th rounder. Fuck the Top 10. Fuck the first round. Fuck the 2nd round...

This.

There's nothing wrong with Carr as a prospect. Good prospect.

There's everything wrong with the Waiting for Gadot obsession that rockets a Carr to a top 10 or 5 pick über reach that demands immediate rookie PT and 2 years of development patience. That is a half decade franchise killing move.

I'll say it again. Go to the stats page of your liking & sort by descending QB rating order. Tells you all you need to know.

Evaluate QBs like guards & safeties and you'll draft well.

Base your draft on desperation & how they look in the field house in April in shorts & Ts working with Winthop Jr in a Kinky Boots routine & your the Jags, Browns & Vikings.

In a nutshell my admittedly, umm, intuitive opinion is that he's gone from someone who about 2 months ago on the 1st page of this thread was ranked as the 127th prospect in this draft class, someone I was QUOTE intrigued by QUOTE as possibly being undervalued, to a Top 10, maybe even Top 5 pick--why exactly?

Smells like a drastic stock value overcorrection to me. Smells like 'Fourteen Ponder Shit. (<--Nirvana cover coming to an iPod near no one)

Yeah, he was intriguing as a 3rd or 4th rounder. Fuck the Top 10. Fuck the first round. Fuck the 2nd round...

This.

There's nothing wrong with Carr as a prospect. Good prospect.

There's everything wrong with the Waiting for Gadot obsession that rockets a Carr to a top 10 or 5 pick über reach that demands immediate rookie PT and 2 years of development patience. That is a half decade franchise killing move.

I'll say it again. Go to the stats page of your liking & sort by descending QB rating order. Tells you all you need to know.

Evaluate QBs like guards & safeties and you'll draft well.

Base your draft on desperation & how they look in the field house in April in shorts & Ts working with Winthop Jr in a Kinky Boots routine & your the Jags, Browns & Vikings.

I always enjoy the rational solution approach. It's so cute.

Here's the problem with said approach: You never get a QB. You wallow in suck fo-ev-ah.

You see, you can't evaluate QB's like you do guards and safeties because NO ONE ELSE DOES.

If you WANT a QB that you like and you don't have one of the top 2 spots in a QB-rich draft, you have to OVERPAY to get him.

They are the limited availability waterfront property that everyone wants, so people are willing to pay twice what they would for a house a mile inland.

And, yeah, if that waterfront property you overpay for has a crumbling foundation, then, yep, yer fucked. But that's the chance you take for that view.

Unless you're one of those that's fine with buying the house a mile inland and hoping an earthquake sinks everything between your front door and the shore into the sea. It happens once every 5 years, maybe 5% of the time, so, hey, sounds like a plan.

It's a boring fucking prospect and the odds are it no more leads to winning than overpaying for a bad QB does.

Whatever, I end my caring about this now. This draft sucks for QB's anyway now that Mariota went back, and after Hundley does too there will be absolutely no interesting prospects outside of Bridgewater, who will be a Texan this time next year. It's so depressing that I've already subconsciously written next year off too. Give In For Winston!

I don't believe for one second that Foles is better than Luck. But I know for a stone cold fact the Eagles are getting far better QB play from Foles than the Colts are from Luck.

Conclusion is they built a better team from coach to OC to other O players. They didn't wring hands & Dick around goin boo hoo we have to play a 3rd round prospect. Ditto Seattle. And all the Os with QBs not led by Luck & RG3 and their 80 fuckin ratings and mediocre play.

So Donny here's what you should see:

You are either lucky enough to have an established consistent vet QB or you stfu and build your team and stop crying about QB and reaching for franchise killing charlatans

You're not Nostrafreakingsdamus with those statements. I don't really disagree, but citing the QB ratings chart as proof of your theory is hogwash. You ignore all the surrounding circumstances. Foles isn't doing much without that strong balance of the running game, and let's get some sample sizes before getting all giddy about it. That same list of ratings shows that other thing that gets stated over and over again, top stud picks in the draft.

Frankly I think you've been trying too hard to wake up everyday and find the secret to success in this game. It's a team game, you need a good guy at the helm, that's not a newsflash hot off the wire.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

I don't believe for one second that Foles is better than Luck. But I know for a stone cold fact the Eagles are getting far better QB play from Foles than the Colts are from Luck.

Conclusion is they built a better team from coach to OC to other O players. They didn't wring hands & Dick around goin boo hoo we have to play a 3rd round prospect. Ditto Seattle. And all the Os with QBs not led by Luck & RG3 and their 80 fuckin ratings and mediocre play.

So Donny here's what you should see:

You are either lucky enough to have an established consistent vet QB or you stfu and build your team and stop crying about QB and reaching for franchise killing charlatans

Laugh out loud at the concept that Foles is playing well bc Philly "built the cockpit". They have some nice skill players, meh O line, meh D. Team looked like shit with Vick.

I'm not gonna assume the QB they draft is any more likely to be a bust than any of the other guys they take.

FTR - I think I'm leaning towards Hundley with the Indy pick at this point, so you're free to use that first pick for your cockpit guy.

Redshirt Hundley rookie year except for certain run packages.

Contrary to popular belief, I do not want the Browns to reach for just any QB just to get a QB. There HAS to be someone in this draft that they think could be a possible long term franchise elite championship QB. I want them to identify that QB(s) and make sure they get him (one of them). If he has a top of the 2nd Rd grade, take him with the Indy pick. If he has a top of 3rd Rd grade, trade into the back of the 2nd to get him if you have to. If you identify Guiton as the best QB in the draft not named Bridgewater and you think you can get him in the 5th, fine. Just make sure you get it done.

The only reason I've advocated taking him with one of the firsts or the second is that it's likely that you're not the only one to identify this QB. Get too cute and lose him to the guy willing to make sure he gets his man.