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I was wondering if there was a way to PM or email you.
I would like to bring to your attention a few concerns regarding the forum and the moderators that you need to be aware of. Is there an email or can I PM you in any way?
I would appreciate your respond.
Bayad shoma bedaneed.
tashakore Reply

I understand that we are looking at limiting games by the CPU and not the graphics card, but lets be a little realistic...some of those performance per watt figures aren't what an end user is going to be seeing when comparing his options. Reply

Perhaps a weird thought but AMD bought that new ZRAM process that theoretically could put a huge cache on a small space with the flaw that it had so-so latency, then they later bought version 2 of the same but so far they didn't use it.
Now what if this is an experiment with that technology, or a preamble, because at some time you would expect them to start using stuff they bought the license off, although at the time of the ZRAM announcement people were projecting use in a very far future that might not be what AMD has in mind, or the situation might have changed as to the performance of current versions of ZRAM.
What do you think, any link to it?
Reply

If you look,you'll see a story here in Anandtech.com for the first AMD X2s dated June 2005. The processor there was the 'top notch,for something unheard of in the processor industry. And even so doing with DDR400 memory.

What is strange in these processor scenarios. There is Moores law. And there is the 'business quarter law. The article here,of wich I am commenting to,if the first of the detail in the "new processors"-the 65Nm processors. The AMDX2xs where also "new" when the 2005 articles was published. Today,as of reading this article,the "old"(and then top notch)is no longer being supported ..or as per use,no longer maintaining the subject cache sizes. AND well,point me if I am not correct,but the "old"processors are no longer going to be manufactured.

Well I have usually considered that in these events of "new,and old"technology that somehow,if something is 18 months past.I can actually afford it. This changes a little with the new Intel setups. Since the Intel lineups finally seem to break this cycle of the previous as I explained here.

For an entire year,I saw article after article,putting AMDs top notch as base line for performance. Ney user could address something of a culminating relationship to what had performance and what they could afford. And AMDs "top notch" an "industry standard" wich of course nobody could afford. At least if somebody was passing the buck,it wasn't happening with me.

Annyway,I would just like to say I wish AMD good luck.Yet I cannot be ashamed to say that I can now put together a system for less than 1000$ with the same parts as that '"top notch"industry standard seen for the permiating part of 2005.

Am I better for thinking that way ? 18 months passed,and my dollars are spendable but not supported ? I dont think that anybody could consider an AMD setup a 'low-end setup if for example the 4800+1Mb l2 can be had for 230$.

That is the enevitable consequence is the final exhaustion of the supply of the component. Yet I could say that I have a "top notch" 2005 version of AMD technology. With 2007 PARTS! Being on the exhausted end,I dont know who could feel better about this.

Wish AMD luck. Still with their record,I probably should say that I do not wish to look forward to exhaustion,at the same time as extingusishment,as in the mentioning of taking a break to what one pays for.

Being able to sell more chips is not an argument for consumers but for AMD. Brisbane is not like Prescott - AMD has done a good job. Further development is needed but first 65nm units are running and are the basis for new architectures with increased transistor count. Reply

Hey all, I know that Socket 939 is obselete now but I think It'd be awesome if they'd make a 939 65nm core.. I still have my Opteron 144 at 3.1ghz on my Lanparty board and would love to see a core I could update to before the nextgen AMD achatecture makes it out.

I don’t understand why anyone or any review expect stellar overclocking or performance from these 65nm’s?
Did AMD promise any? No. AMD promised a transition to 65nm and on time. That’s what we all should expect and appreciate the successful transition.
Do you remember the first batch of Intel's 65nm Core 2’s? It was not as good as what you see today. Frankly I think AMD did much better in 65nm than Intel back then, and this first release is giving Core 2 due's matured chip a run for the money. After all the review here clearly shows AMD is on tract w/ 65nm’s performance per watt and energy consumption. Don’t forget its still K8 architecture competing w/ the latest and the greatest of Intel's.
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quote:Do you remember the first batch of Intel's 65nm Core 2’s? It was not as good as what you see today. Frankly I think AMD did much better in 65nm than Intel back then, and this first release is giving Core 2 due's matured chip a run for the money. After all the review here clearly shows AMD is on tract w/ 65nm’s performance per watt and energy consumption. Don’t forget its still K8 architecture competing w/ the latest and the greatest of Intel's.

Which first batches?? The ones XS has been receiving far before the official Core 2 Duo release?? What's the OC that AT got??

It's not that bad for Brisbane IMO. It seems more like an architectural limitation than process or thermal limitation. Core 2 Duo still has ways to go and roadmaps sort of reflect it. Though the increase in L2 access latencies may mean it was done to increase the clock speed potential. Reply

This is not the first time this has happened, it may be easy to forget, but do you guys remember the thoroughbred?

Thoroughbred A was the first 180nm to 130nm shrink and had a hard time reaching the speeds the mature 180nm cores were getting. It wasn't till AMD added another layer to the core (Thoroughbred B) that we saw the expected speedups from a die shrink. Reply

Why don't you set manually the voltage, to know really what's the improvement with 0.65 transition?
1.30v to compare it with 5000+ 90nm, and 1.25v to compare it with 4600+ EE 0.90nm.
It would be a good thing IMO. Reply

There are already people who believe that odd numbered multipliers offer worse performance compared to even numbered multipliers. I cant help but wonder why AMD chose to start implementing floating point multipliers now. The first thing that comes to mind, is maybe to refine their pricing ? Although, I've never really noticed much performance (if any) difference using odd vs even numbered multipliers, I can not help but wonder if floating point multipliers will play a factor in performance. Reply

AMD has been stepping in baby steps in their innovation merits. Ever since the IMC and the enhancements from K7 to K8 it seems like they improve little by little. I hope this gives them a rude awakening to how competitive the market can or could be in future. If they did it before they can do it again.

As for the transition to 65nm, it was no surprise that these parts could not over clock very well. The K8 is showing its age and I think there are no more ways you can breathe life back into it especially when Core Duo is out in the market. Reply

Why awekening, and why rude? The fact is AMD kept PARITY with intel on power AND performance inthe lower end with 90nm!!! part with Intel beeing at 65nm for a year allredy!
In other words, When AMD's 90nm process is FAR better that Intel's ever was. Same happened with 130nm. Two words: SOI,APM.
No confusion, all thi means no one should avaluate AMD vs. Intel on process_used base. Simply put, as of now(at stock) Intel rules on perf&power while AMD rules on idle_power and price(up to 4200+/E6300 combo). Reply

quote:The impact of higher voltages on power consumption also applies to Intel as well. As you will see in our power comparison, in a number of cases our Core 2 Duo E6300 required even more power than the E6600 we tested last time. The reason being that our E6300 sample runs at a core voltage of 1.325V vs. 1.2625V for our E6600 sample. Just things to keep in mind as you look at the power results over the next few pages.

I you really consider power consumption to be important, it is much more important to look at idle power consumption than power consumption at full load. Most business PCs idle a lot of the time, and AMDs CPUs are much better at saving power at idle.

EIST was designed for P4, and for a 3+ GHz P4 it makes sense to drop the multiplier to 6. However when the E6300 normally run at a multiplier of 7, you don't get much of a power saving by dropping the multiplier to 6. AMD C'n'Q allows for much lower settings. Reply

I doubt many PC enthusiasts place much importance on CPU power consumption. If they did Intel would never have sold any P4 chips. With Video cards drawing 200+ watts per card, a 65 nano AMD chip is a sweet piece.

From my perspective, this is the first AMD 65 nano chips and like most process drops there is little performance gain just in lowering the nano size. AMD has a lot in the pipeline and as it arrives I suspect PC enthusiasts will be quite satisfied with both the CPU options and performance.

It should be pretty obvious that 99.9% of the market doesn't need faster CPUs, dual cores, quad cores, etc. until we get a decent O/S that can use these CPU features and full 64-bit function. How friggin long will we have to wait for quality 64-bit software to arrive? That is something that would help PC performance significantly, yet we've been waiting two years and the software folks have delivered almost nothing. Reply

Quote: I doubt many PC enthusiasts place much importance on CPU power consumption.
If they did Intel would never have sold any P4 chips.

That is where you are wrong. Say it after me: Million-dollar-marketing-campaign.
Not the best product wins, but the best advertised.

Think back to P4-times: Some average I-know-that-I-have-to-press-the-big-button-to-make-my-compie-start-Joe would enter a big (online) store like DELL where his only choice was a P4 - end of selection.
Asked why he should buy it he would receive something like this: It has 3 REAL GHz, other manufacturers have _only_ about 2GHz. And then he would buy.

PS I'm no AMD-fanboy. One has to clearly admit that Intel did a marvellous job with it's Core2. Only reason to buy is aforementioned power consumption in idle (my PC is idle 90% of the time) und the nice low price.

Too strange. If you read hardware sites you could come to the conclusion that there are no single core CPUs anymore. Reply

Looking at those benchmarks, I think Intel won based on per/watt performance. AMD had lower watt usage but also lower performance. Given that a cpu can work harder, then be idle, i see per watt performance as the most important thing. I would have expected AMD to do better, but they did not come through. Reply

Sorry fo no reading the second sentence, the first one was too crazy to continue reading back then ... So"

Wwhat is "pure idle" ? CPU is able to go between C-states in (micro-to-mili)seconds, How fast can you type?
AV checking? when you type? to check whether one is coding some exploit? :)
Backgroung file-idexing? no thanks, I prefer on-MY-demand search to on OS's demand.
Email-autocheck? done in 0.1s at 5% CPU used, once in 5 minutes...
IE7? no, thanks, not required for Windows Update...
Flash ad open? no, thanks, flash enabled only for reasonable sites or the ones requiring it(a few). Also, an usuall Flash is only up to 10% K8 core at 1000MHz
etc.
You may ask, why X2/C2D then when no background BS? Well, as of now I'm pretty happy with my Q1 install of Win2k on A1.66/512M/R9200/dualUXGA backed up by ~ 2TB NAS(with 3G P4C :). The system is more responsive than nearby mate's X2/1G with all that "necessary" bloat you mentioned.
Me having loaded 50+ webpages and 5-10 active apps a common sight... Reply

Now I figure, maybe, maybe, the average PC has become so bloated and unmaintained as to not even be able to put CPU's to Sleep states?
I have not seen this except outrageously malwared machives yet. However my sample size may be unrepresentative a bit too much.

If it is so, to abandon PC and return to calculus at primary may be a good idea. Reply

I upgraded to an S939 X2 earlier this year, so I'm going to be out of the serious upgrade market for a while (might pick up a better CPU or graphics card that's about it). So personally I'm waiting for K8-L and co-processors to see how things shake out. I do have to say I had hoped better from AMD, but after 3 years of dominance I think a stumble like this is just what they need to get them back on the war path of innovation. Reply