Since obviously many people are affected by the disappearance of particles forever, a workaround solution was devised and implemented. Far fewer people are affected by this removal of sim owner/manager abilities so the easy non-solution route was apparently taken.

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What could possibly take as long as 5 minutes to demo? Seriously, I can't think of anything it took me that long to demo. Not even a mesh head or body.

On the other hand, I did the research before going out and looking. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If you mix and match clothes it can take a while to see if they work with what you had in mind. For example some over the pants shirts can work well with some pants, but will heavily clip with others. Unless you have like a couple of pants you want to test it with, it'll take way longer than 5 minutes to check. Same for shoes and pants. Depending on pants' length and shoe shape (length, straps, other details) some will work nicely together and some won't.

And don't know how you were able to spend less than 5 minutes on demoing the bento head (if you did). Unless you're perfectly happy with some premade shape from the MP which had a stylecard, of course. Because if not, then messing with sliders can take a long while to even see if you can possibly achieve what you want to with "this exact' head.

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If you mix and match clothes it can take a while to see if they work with what you had in mind. For example some over the pants shirts can work well with some pants, but will heavily clip with others. Unless you have like a couple of pants you want to test it with, it'll take way longer than 5 minutes to check. Same for shoes and pants. Depending on pants' length and shoe shape (length, straps, other details) some will work nicely together and some won't.

Never ran across that problem. Like I said, I did the research first.

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And don't know how you were able to spend less than 5 minutes on demoing the bento head (if you did). Unless you're perfectly happy with some premade shape from the MP which had a stylecard, of course. Because if not, then messing with sliders can take a long while to even see if you can possibly achieve what you want to with "this exact' head.

I created my own shape for both body and head. Like I said, I did the research first. You can even find my posts on the forums asking about them back in October/November. I've been in SL long enough to know what I'm doing for the most part.

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No, no, you don't get me - if you disabled the self destruct in an otherwise unmarked fitmesh clothing demo... what would you get?

Full version. I remember seeing a few people in clothes like that, when I did like what they were wearing enough to inspect it and then found it's the demo, without any visible demo signs. Most fun part is that they had good avatars, with one of popular mesh head brands, mesh bodies and good bento AOs and those clothes weren't on the expensive side either. And unlike with copybotted gachas we can't even say that they "didn't knew", because buying non legit gacha is fine from that aspect, they might not have time or even want to research, not like it's a normal procedure for using a MP or a gacha yard sale, so they can be totally innocent. But asking a region owner to kill the scripts in the timed demos... it's 100% intentional.

1 minute ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Never ran across that problem. Like I said, I did the research first.

1st hand experience is more important in my opinion. Research can heavily reduce the number of options, though, I'll give you that. But you literally can't make a shape for the mesh head without putting it on first. But props to you if you found the perfect head and made shape that you're happy with in 5 minutes plus some research time. I also know what I'm doing, especially with mesh body parts, but far too picky when it comes to details, so things like measuring distance between eyes by moving slider 1 digit at the time and other nonses like that takes a long while.

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Full version. I remember seeing a few people in clothes like that, when I did like what they were wearing enough to inspect it and then found it's the demo, without any visible demo signs. Most fun part is that they had good avatars, with one of popular mesh head brands, mesh bodies and good bento AOs and those clothes weren't on the expensive side either. And unlike with copybotted gachas we can't even say that they "didn't knew", because buying non legit gacha is fine from that aspect, they might not have time or even want to research, not like it's a normal procedure for using a MP or a gacha yard sale, so they can be totally innocent. But asking a region owner to kill the scripts in the timed demos... it's 100% intentional.﻿﻿﻿﻿

To be fair you can't know for sure - Maai for instance once handed out a black stocking demo that was just like the fatpack with the notable exception that it only was black. Wearable demos are rare but not unheared off.

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To be fair you can't know for sure - Maai for instance once handed out a black stocking demo that was just like the fatpack with the notable exception that it only was black. Wearable demos are rare but not unheared off.

That's true, I remember seeing some demo eyes like that too. They had demo text on the inside, but on visible part they were purely functional/normal, just one color instead of 25+ in full version. Either way, seems like script killing for such demos won't work anymore anyway.

Now if only LL fixed the ancient bug when scripts are set (sometimes at least) to not running state if you're kicked from somewhere and your home place is offline or doesn't exist anymore... Which in case of no-mod stuff means either a major inconvenience caused by having to setup a fresh item(s) or even loss of something, in case of no-copy/no-mod things, like some gachas.

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1st hand experience is more important in my opinion. Research can heavily reduce the number of options, though, I'll give you that. But you literally can't make a shape for the mesh head without putting it on first. But props to you if you found the perfect head and made shape that you're happy with in 5 minutes plus some research time. I also know what I'm doing, especially with mesh body parts, but far too picky when it comes to details, so things like measuring distance between eyes by moving slider 1 digit at the time and other nonses like that takes a long while.

I learned how to create shapes in 2004. Not sure what part of that you aren't getting. I've been creating shapes for 15 years.

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I guess one reason was because people used it to make 5 minute demos permanent...

Valid point but it seems to me that clothing and attachment makers should learn from their past mistakes and stop relying on scripts to enforce their 'demos'. If they put in a little extra effort with demo textures on their products or added a demo prim that cannot be removed then this argument would be moot. If I learned that people were doing this it would be the very last time I ever used that method of demo enforcement.

I would do this quickly though.
Currently older viewers are still able to make use of "Disable Selected" & "Disable All". Reverting the viewer change is simple.
However LL will soon block this feature serverside so it will break in older viewers too. Convincing LL to revert the serverside block will probably be more difficult.

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For those confused it's quite simple. The issue is not that scripts can be shut down. The issue is that there is no function to re-enable scripts in a no mod object. If LL would simply enable the function of "Run Scripts" for no mod objects, problem solved. I guess it is easier to destroy a function then to create a solution.

To clarify your confusion, it is not Chaser's job to pass along your problems to LL. My suggestion was that you should do it and I even provided the link where you could do so in the event you were unable to find it in all this confusion.

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As much as I would love to agree with you, I will need to side with LL on this for the time being, until server code is modified to support the ability to undo what is done with the estate manager's disable script thing. not every estate manager is benevolent, and i have had instances where an estate manager used this feature you love soo much to break no modify, and sometimes even no mod, no copy things of friends, just because that estate manager did not like my friend. not everything has means to get a new copy, especially older things, and this has been used to permanently break things owned by other people, as a means of attacking those people far more than is justifiable. yes, the ability to set things running would be able to fix this. There are however applications for scripts that are not running, but generally it involves a separate script that toggles if said script is running or not. this is done in things like the 8.5 version of nanite systems, as well as various guns made over the years.

If you are wanting to have people support the ability to set scripts as running in no modify objects, make the appropriate jira, and link the jira to people, and have them upvote it. ranting here doesnt lead to anything being done on LLs end, blaming firestorm devs doesnt do anything, because LL can take action against firestorm, if firestorm doesnt comply with security changes. and telling everyone here to make a jira for you doesnt help, aside from creating a bunch of similar jira pages, none of which have significant support because the support was distributed.

sorry that people used this feature as a weapon, or to abuse the system enough for LL to start removing the feature.

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No JIRA ticket is going to reverse this decision. I will just sit back and watch the acceleration of the mass exodus out of SL. Fewer and fewer people will play/join/stay because of these diminished rights and freedoms. The population of the grid has already massively dropped over the last few years and things like this will accelerate the inevitable demise. People pay A LOT of $$$ including myself for a region and then lose a major region performance management tool? This will not be a popular decision once sim owners realize what abilities have been ripped away from them. R.I.P.