Don't like what's coming out of Lindens mouth thinking this core can still get it done with our best players at 34 years of age and Bieksa and Burrows not to far behind. Is he even watching the playoffs? This group would be lucky to muster up a goal let alone a win against these teams. We'd get destroyed

This is a complete rebuild here. He and the new GM better not start doing what the Iginla Flames did and believe this group can still do it. It's over, stick s fork in them. Rebuild

"I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? - Plastics." - The Graduate

RoyalDude wrote:Don't like what's coming out of Lindens mouth thinking this core can still get it done with our best players at 34 years of age and Bieksa and Burrows not to far behind. Is he even watching the playoffs? This group would be lucky to muster up a goal let alone a win against these teams. We'd get destroyed

This is a complete rebuild here. He and the new GM better not start doing what the Iginla Flames did and believe this group can still do it. It's over, stick s fork in them. Rebuild

I actually really like it...he builds expectations, sells seasons tickets, fails spectacularly with the the core and we nab that David kid next year

RoyalDude wrote:Don't like what's coming out of Lindens mouth thinking this core can still get it done with our best players at 34 years of age and Bieksa and Burrows not to far behind. Is he even watching the playoffs? This group would be lucky to muster up a goal let alone a win against these teams. We'd get destroyed

This is a complete rebuild here. He and the new GM better not start doing what the Iginla Flames did and believe this group can still do it. It's over, stick s fork in them. Rebuild

Actions speak louder than words. The problem is that the existing core has NMC/NTCs. So he can't exactly throw them all under the bus, especially the Sedins/Bieksa who are Canucks' for life. But he has to "behind the scenes" move the younger ones that aren't so entrenched in the city. i.e. Kesler and/or Edler who realize like you that the core as it is constituted can' get it done in 2014 and would be willing to go to a contender.

The key for the Canucks to contend again, is for guys like Kassian and Tanev to take the next step and become the core and "best" players on the team. The Canucks need several more people in that age range that have good upside and will grow with them over the next year to make them "contenders" again. They can do that from flipping older guys like Kesler and/or Edler for guys 3-5 years younger.

This isn't a one season fix here. If the Sedins were Getzlaf/Perry's age, yes. But back to reality here, they ain't. When your best players are ancient and you don't have Pavelski and Couture and Burns and Vlasic to bail the old guys out - Thornton and Marleau and Boyle you have no choice, you rebuild. You're only fooling yourself like Gillis did and Sutter in Calgary. With how many good young teams there are in the western conference, we have no choice. We can't compete with those teams. We need to stop talking about 2011, that was lighting in a bottle. Never gonna strike again with this thin group as your core surrounded by a bunch of lame journeymen reclamation projects. It's wake up time, rebuild!

"I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? - Plastics." - The Graduate

RoyalDude wrote:Don't like what's coming out of Lindens mouth thinking this core can still get it done with our best players at 34 years of age and Bieksa and Burrows not to far behind. Is he even watching the playoffs? This group would be lucky to muster up a goal let alone a win against these teams. We'd get destroyed

This is a complete rebuild here. He and the new GM better not start doing what the Iginla Flames did and believe this group can still do it. It's over, stick s fork in them. Rebuild

I got a bit concerned too when I read that he didn't totally agree with Tortorella's assessment of the team and core.

The plan should be to move a core player at the draft or during the summer. Maybe move another one during the season, like at the deadline, depending on how the team is trending.

I doubt the Sedins will waive, and so far as I know they have full NMC's. Nothing doing there.

Kesler is only 30 years old. Keep him if possible. I think Kes can be to Horvat what Sundin was to Kesler.

Hamhuis, despite some ups and downs the last couple of seasons, is our most steady two-way guy.

Bieksa is a guy that you keep. His attitude is "go down with the ship" he doesn't want out. This is his team. Reminds me of a guy who now runs the front office. Keep Bieksa, let him play out his contract and then re-sign him at a lower price and let him finish his career in Vancouver as a bottom 3 guy who can mentor some of the kids.

Burrows is worth keeping since the Sedins aren't leaving.

The rest of the team should be expendable.

Those 6 guys form the core of this team right now. They should all be kept for the foreseeable future, especially if we are giving "the kids" a shot.

Henrik and Kesler will be a fine pair to mentor a guy like Horvat. Between the two of them I think they can teach Bo how to become a very complete NHL center.

Burrows is a very smart player, he has always thrived by adjusting to his linemates and going to the places where they can find him. He's the perfect two-way winger for what he does. Daniel likes to make plays, but he's also adept at finishing them. Jensen and Kassian can easily learn from both of those guys. Shinkaruk too if and when he makes the team. Should we draft a guy like Dal Colle, Ritchie, or Virtanen, same goes for them.

Any young defensemen that come through our system will need guys like Hamhuis and Bieksa to help them develop. Corrado comes to mind right now, Tanev is still learning from those guys too, in the latter's case particularly when to jump into the rush and help out from the point.

I know what you're saying Dude, about us not going down the same path as Calgary. However, I don't think that's remotely the case. The Flames were a middle of the pack team up until a miracle run in 2004, after that they were considered to be contenders, but it seemed like nobody really ever took a long look at their depth chart beyond Iginla and Kiprusoff. We know the story, they hung on to their assets too long. Kipper retired and Iggy got sold for below value.

That's not the Canucks. Vancouver has a core of 6 guys, see above, and then probably another 5 guys who other teams would happily take in hopes of supporting their core or adding to it with the hope of a bounce back in a new city.

If Linden, and/or his GM, don't move at least two of Edler, Hansen, Higgins, Garrison, Richardson, and/ Booth, then we are in trouble and taking steps down the same road as Calgary.

This is why I really hope Linden gets Benning. From what I've heard Benning makes no attachments to players, it's all business, and he'll pull the trigger on anyone when he see's the team needs change.

Our forwards get all the harp, but gotta remember 67% of our scorers were hurt at various times this season: Sedins, Burrows and Santorelli. Kesler, Booth is what remained..RK actually had a decent season with 25 goals if he had a 25g-35a winger to play with his line all of sudden is dangerous again.

The defense is whats fucked up imo, they were horrible this season, they deserve as much as the blame for the losses this season if not more, sloppy/unorganized defensive positioning, couldn't control the lanes, not gritty enough to handle the big Cali teams, horrendous setups on the powerplay (part of that can be blamed on Torts/Sullivan though)

It's out of Garrison or Edler, one needs to go.

[Garrison/Edler] - _________ (new dman)

Hamhuis - Bieksa (one of the best 2nd defensive pairings in the NHL)

Stanton - Corrado

Tanev imo could made available to move up in the draft or part of a package to land a top right side dman.He unfortunately isn't needed as much especially with his pay raise coming up where he would be paid like a top 4 dman, but he doesn't really fit in our new top 4 D.

RoyalDude wrote:Don't like what's coming out of Lindens mouth thinking this core can still get it done with our best players at 34 years of age and Bieksa and Burrows not to far behind. Is he even watching the playoffs? This group would be lucky to muster up a goal let alone a win against these teams. We'd get destroyed

This is a complete rebuild here. He and the new GM better not start doing what the Iginla Flames did and believe this group can still do it. It's over, stick s fork in them. Rebuild

I got a bit concerned too when I read that he didn't totally agree with Tortorella's assessment of the team and core.

The plan should be to move a core player at the draft or during the summer. Maybe move another one during the season, like at the deadline, depending on how the team is trending.

I doubt the Sedins will waive, and so far as I know they have full NMC's. Nothing doing there.

Kesler is only 30 years old. Keep him if possible. I think Kes can be to Horvat what Sundin was to Kesler.

Hamhuis, despite some ups and downs the last couple of seasons, is our most steady two-way guy.

Bieksa is a guy that you keep. His attitude is "go down with the ship" he doesn't want out. This is his team. Reminds me of a guy who now runs the front office. Keep Bieksa, let him play out his contract and then re-sign him at a lower price and let him finish his career in Vancouver as a bottom 3 guy who can mentor some of the kids.

Burrows is worth keeping since the Sedins aren't leaving.

The rest of the team should be expendable.

Those 6 guys form the core of this team right now. They should all be kept for the foreseeable future, especially if we are giving "the kids" a shot.

Henrik and Kesler will be a fine pair to mentor a guy like Horvat. Between the two of them I think they can teach Bo how to become a very complete NHL center.

Burrows is a very smart player, he has always thrived by adjusting to his linemates and going to the places where they can find him. He's the perfect two-way winger for what he does. Daniel likes to make plays, but he's also adept at finishing them. Jensen and Kassian can easily learn from both of those guys. Shinkaruk too if and when he makes the team. Should we draft a guy like Dal Colle, Ritchie, or Virtanen, same goes for them.

Any young defensemen that come through our system will need guys like Hamhuis and Bieksa to help them develop. Corrado comes to mind right now, Tanev is still learning from those guys too, in the latter's case particularly when to jump into the rush and help out from the point.

I know what you're saying Dude, about us not going down the same path as Calgary. However, I don't think that's remotely the case. The Flames were a middle of the pack team up until a miracle run in 2004, after that they were considered to be contenders, but it seemed like nobody really ever took a long look at their depth chart beyond Iginla and Kiprusoff. We know the story, they hung on to their assets too long. Kipper retired and Iggy got sold for below value.

That's not the Canucks. Vancouver has a core of 6 guys, see above, and then probably another 5 guys who other teams would happily take in hopes of supporting their core or adding to it with the hope of a bounce back in a new city.

If Linden, and/or his GM, don't move at least two of Edler, Hansen, Higgins, Garrison, Richardson, and/ Booth, then we are in trouble and taking steps down the same road as Calgary.

This is why I really hope Linden gets Benning. From what I've heard Benning makes no attachments to players, it's all business, and he'll pull the trigger on anyone when he see's the team needs change.

Meds, Alain Vigneault is as good a coach as any coach in the game, he got the max out of this group. If you go into next season with the same old, same old, do you honestly think you'll see something different? Having Torts here trying to put a square peg in a round hole tells us that this group can only play one way, the way that AV pretty much let them play. We have seen the max out of this group. There is not magical coach out there that can make them play better, better enough to win the cup. Ain't happening. Maybe if the twins were 8 years younger. Yes, this group is capable of making the playoffs again but if you think that this group can make hay in the playoffs again, you're dreaming big time. How many more times does this fan base need to get smacked in the face with the same old predictable hockey that this core group only knows how to play. This groups game is so predictable and telegraphed, opposing teams don't even need to study the book on them, or study game tapes. It's just lame history repeating itself. The young kids are not ready to make a serious impact yet. They need 2 - 3 years under their belt.

It's pretty much gonna be like the Red Wings if we stay the course, make the playoffs barely and get knocked out in the first round by younger, stronger teams cause we are still holding out hope that aging superstars passed their prime - Zetterberg and Datsyuk can still get it done.

"I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? - Plastics." - The Graduate

AV is a shitty coach. He has no cups but i agree with the dud about the Canucks re their style ; AV fit this team like ugly on Stanley Roper and that shit cannot be just brushed aside . We'll figure it out kids.

The Leafs, said the scout, have no top-six forwards on the way from their list of draft picks and AHL players. And, according to his assessment, they have only one potential top-four defencemen: Matt Finn of the Guelph Storm.

As for the Leafs’ first choices in 2010 and 2011, the kind of players should be making an impact in 2014-15, there is much doubt. Forwards Tyler Biggs and Brad Ross have not turned out as planned. Both are considered longshots now to ever play regularly in the NHL. Defenceman Stuart Percy, the second first round pick in 2011, he is considered a possible NHL player in the future, but more of a 5-6 defenceman and not a top-of-roster player.

The Leafs need change, but to expect it to come internally is unrealistic.

$lacker wrote:Speaking of GM's RD, your boy NoNuts in Toronto appears to be in some hot water over his drafting record. Guess he spent all his luck giving Gillis those awesome draft picks to work with.

The Leafs, said the scout, have no top-six forwards on the way from their list of draft picks and AHL players. And, according to his assessment, they have only one potential top-four defencemen: Matt Finn of the Guelph Storm.

As for the Leafs’ first choices in 2010 and 2011, the kind of players should be making an impact in 2014-15, there is much doubt. Forwards Tyler Biggs and Brad Ross have not turned out as planned. Both are considered longshots now to ever play regularly in the NHL. Defenceman Stuart Percy, the second first round pick in 2011, he is considered a possible NHL player in the future, but more of a 5-6 defenceman and not a top-of-roster player.

The Leafs need change, but to expect it to come internally is unrealistic.

“I didn’t play the game at the NHL level and didn’t get to this position through the scouting ranks,” he said. “But I’m an educated guy who has worked for NHL teams for 20 years, the last 13 as an assistant general manager. I understand every facet of this business implicitly. To suggest I don’t understand the key components of a competitive team is laughable to me. But that’s for others to judge. I’ve been around long enough to know the value of a third-line centre or a shutdown defenceman or having character guys on your fourth line.”

Mondi wrote:I want someone to explain the role of the President of Hockey Ops, if there is a GM in place.

Too many cooks in the kitchen, or reasonable split of duties?

There are two teams to manage don't forget (Canucks and Comets).

My perspective is that the Aquilinis know their public image has taken a hit. They haven't been shy in the past about being involved in press conferences and whatnot, but hiring Linden is a way to take a few steps back, get out of the public image and let the President handle the messaging part of things.

Hockey Widow wrote:Flyers make it official today, Hextall in as new GM.

Yeah, nobody saw that one coming.

Interesting to note Homer's vow that Hestall will be the one making decisions. The question is to what degree? Will it be a matter of Holmgren saying, "We need to get younger and bigger." with Hextall finding the players to do that, or will Hextall's parameters be narrower than that?

The other interesting information to find out is what kind of arrangement exists between the LA and Philly organizations considering that LA is still in the playoffs. Will Hextall have no restrictions on his range of duties in Philly as of now, or what? This may set the bar for whatever negotiations Linden has with the organizations employing his selection for GM, depending on who it is.

Mondi wrote:I want someone to explain the role of the President of Hockey Ops, if there is a GM in place.

Too many cooks in the kitchen, or reasonable split of duties?

I'd lean towards Herb's explanation, except I would understand it as the Prez being the liaison with ownership and the guy who establishes the vision for the team longer term as well as team budget, while the GM handles the finer details and negotiations. Prez handles the 'big-hand-small-map' stuff while the GM executes the strategy and handles the negotiations with agents and other GMs.