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With the recent movement the league is having towards 3-4 defenses, pass rushing OLBs are at a premium. Scouts are on the constant look out for the next college DE that there team can convert to OLB in this scheme, which has lead to more of these kinds of prospects being taken in the first 2 rounds of the draft (see: 2009). Finding an OLB for the 3-4 that has the ability to get double digit sacks seems to be very hit or miss in the draft. They are much harder to find then linebackers that can set the edge against the run and/or cover, but don't have an elite ability to get to the QB. Because of this, I feel as if you are only taking a potential 3-4 OLB in the first two rounds if you think he has that ability.

For this study I have pooled together 25 players that have spent atleast one year in the 3-4 as an OLB. This group consists of the players that have either been taken within the first two rounds of the draft, or ones that are viewed as good-great pass rushers. The only exceptions to this are Terrell Suggs, James Harrison, Elvis Dumervil, and Calvin Pace not being in it due to them not perfoming the necessary drills.

I have made a two-part criteria that potentially shows the correlation between the results of the 3-cone drill, the vert, and the broad jump in relations to a prospects ability to rush the passer at the next level. Obviously 1,2, or even 3 measured/timed drills cannot guarantee a success in this skill at the next level, but its very intriguing to look at.

To fit section A of this criteria a player must have been timed doing the 3-cone drill under 7 seconds. For section B, the player must have jumped a vertical of atleast 39'' AND have done the broad jump over 10'00''. Without further a due, here you go...

DeMarcus Ware:6.85 3-cone time; 4.07 shuttle time; 38.5'' vert; 10'02'' broad jump - He almost fit into both sections of the criteria, to go along with a crazy shuttle time. It's not hard to see why he has had an insane 80 sacks in his first 6 seaons.

Lawernce Timmons:6.92 3-cone time; 4.32 shuttle time; 35'' vert; 10'03'' broad jump - Started his career as an OLB and has showen good pass rushing ablities before being moved inside.

Manny Lawson:6.90 3-cone time; 4.21 shuttle time; 39.5'' vert; 10'04'' broad jump - Has not had many sacks in his career, while not starting early on in his career he lead the league this past year in QB pressures.

Connor Barwin:6.87 3-cone time; 4.18 shuttle time; 40.5'' vert; 10'08'' broad jump - Actually has not played OLB yet, but projects there very well this year after showing a ton of pass rushing promise in his first season.

David Pollack:6.87 3-cone time; 3.94 shuttle time; 37'' vert; 10'00'' broad jump - Showed the ability to be an elite pass rusher before he suffered a horrible spinal injury that ended his career.

Bobby Carpenter:6.88 3-cone time; 4.31 shuttle time; no vert available; no broad jump available - Only player to fit in either section of the criteria that turned out to be a bust.

Section B - Vert & Broad Jump

Brian Orakpo: 39.5'' vert; 10'10'' broad jump; 7.26 3-cone time; 4.45 shuttle time - 19.5 sacks his first two years in the league.

Cameron Wake: 45.5'' vert; 10'10'' broad jump; 7.12 3-cone time; 4.13 shuttle time - Wow, no idea how this guy went undrafted with numbers like that. He broke out this past season (his 2nd in the NFL) with 14 sacks.

Shawne Merriman: 40'' vert; 10'01'' broad jump; no 3-cone time available; 4.21 shuttle time - 29.5 sacks his first 3 years in the league before 'roid gate and turning into glass.

Joey Porter: 39'' Vert; 10'04'' broad jump; 7.37 3-cone time; 4.41 shuttle time - Perfect example of a player who used his explosion over anything else to rush the passer. Porter is just 3 sacks shy of 100 in his entire career.

Just missed - LaMarr Woodley: No 3-cone time available; 4.42 shuttle time; 38.5'' vert; 09'09'' broad jump - Very close to fitting into section B, although we don't know if he would have fit into section A due to not having a 3-cone time on file for him.

Robert Ayers: 7.56 3-cone time; 4.51 shuttle time; 29.5'' vert; 08'06'' broad jump - Has had injury problems, regardless he has shown little in the pass rushing department with only 1.5 sacks in his first 2 seasons.

Tamba Hali: 7.28 3-cone time; 4.31 shuttle time; 30'' vert; 8'10'' broad jump - The only complete engima of the entire study. Had a break out year in the 3-4 despite poor times and and measurements. He gets by with a tremendous motor and good strength to go along with great pass rushing moves.

What I take from my study is that the linebackers who time under 7 second in the 3-cone drill generally are elite edge/speed rushers. This is probably because they have the agility, flexibility, and closing burst to dip and turn the corner without losing any of there speed. In essence, those are the things that the 3-cone drill tests you on and it seems as if 7 seconds is a decent barometer for it.

Even though there were only 3 players to fit section B of the criteria - although I wouldn't be suprised if Harrison and Suggs jumped the neccessary amount to be in it - its obvious to me why a player would be effective with those measurements. By having the tremendous combination of both jumping numbers, it shows the explosion the player might have. All 3 linebackers in this area (as well as Woodley, who just missed out) use there explosion and strength to get to the QB rather then there pure speed and ability to turn the corner.

In case you were wondering, there are 5 potential 3-4 OLB prospects in this year draft who fit one of these criteria's...

With the recent movement the league is having towards 3-4 defenses, pass rushing OLBs are at a premium. Scouts are on the constant look out for the next college DE that there team can convert to OLB in this scheme, which has lead to more of these kinds of prospects being taken in the first 2 rounds of the draft (see: 2009). Finding an OLB for the 3-4 that has the ability to get double digit sacks seems to be very hit or miss in the draft. They are much harder to find then linebackers that can set the edge against the run and/or cover, but don't have an elite ability to get to the QB. Because of this, I feel as if you are only taking a potential 3-4 OLB in the first two rounds if you think he has that ability.

For this study I have pooled together 25 players that have spent atleast one year in the 3-4 as an OLB. This group consists of the players that have either been taken within the first two rounds of the draft, or ones that are viewed as good-great pass rushers. The only exceptions to this are Terrell Suggs, James Harrison, Elvis Dumervil, and Calvin Pace not being in it due to them not perfoming the necessary drills.

I have made a two-part criteria that potentially shows the correlation between the results of the 3-cone drill, the vert, and the broad jump in relations to a prospects ability to rush the passer at the next level. Obviously 1,2, or even 3 measured/timed drills cannot guarantee a success in this skill at the next level, but its very intriguing to look at.

To fit section A of this criteria a player must have been timed doing the 3-cone drill under 7 seconds. For section B, the player must have jumped the vertical higher than 39'' AND have done the broad jump over 10'00''. Without further a due, here you go...

DeMarcus Ware:6.85 3-cone time; 4.07 shuttle time; 38.5'' vert; 10'02'' broad jump - He almost fit into both sections of the criteria, to go along with a crazy shuttle time. It's not hard to see why he has had an insane 80 sacks in his first 6 seaons.

Lawernce Timmons:6.92 3-cone time; 4.32 shuttle time; 35'' vert; 10'03'' broad jump - Started his career as an OLB and has showen good pass rushing ablities before being moved inside.

Manny Lawson:6.90 3-cone time; 4.21 shuttle time; 39.5'' vert; 10'04'' broad jump - Has not had many sacks in his career, while not starting early on in his career he lead the league this past year in QB pressures.

Connor Barwin:6.87 3-cone time; 4.18 shuttle time; 40.5'' vert; 10'08'' broad jump - Actually has not played OLB yet, but projects there very well this year after showing a ton of pass rushing promise in his first season.

David Pollack:6.87 3-cone time; 3.94 shuttle time; 37'' vert; 10'00'' broad jump - Showed the ability to be an elite pass rusher before he suffered a horrible spinal injury that ended his career.

Bobby Carpenter:6.88 3-cone time; 4.31 shuttle time; no vert available; no broad jump available - Only player to fit in either section of the criteria that turned out to be a bust.

Section B - Vert & Broad Jump

Brian Orakpo: 39.5'' vert; 10'10'' broad jump; 7.26 3-cone time; 4.45 shuttle time - 19.5 sacks his first two years in the league.

Cameron Wake: 45.5'' vert; 10'10'' broad jump; 7.12 3-cone time; 4.13 shuttle time - Wow, no idea how this guy went undrafted with numbers like that. He broke out this past season (his 2nd in the NFL) with 14 sacks.

Shawne Merriman: 40'' vert; 10'01'' broad jump; no 3-cone time available; 4.21 shuttle time - 29.5 sacks his first 3 years in the league before 'roid gate and turning into glass.

Just missed - LaMarr Woodley: No 3-cone time available; 4.42 shuttle time; 38.5'' vert; 09'09'' broad jump - Very close to fitting into section B, although we don't know if he would have fit into section A due to not having a 3-cone time on file for him.

Robert Ayers: 7.56 3-cone time; 4.51 shuttle time; 29.5'' vert; 08'06'' broad jump - Has had injury problems, regardless he has shown little in the pass rushing department with only 1.5 sacks in his first 2 seasons.

Tamba Hali: 7.28 3-cone time; 4.31 shuttle time; 30'' vert; 8'10'' broad jump - The only complete engima of the entire study. Had a break out year in the 3-4 despite poor times and and measurements. He gets by with a tremendous motor and good strength to go along with great pass rushing moves.

What I take from my study is that the linebackers who time under 7 second in the 3-cone drill generally are elite edge/speed rushers. This is probably because they have the agility, flexibility, and closing burst to dip and turn the corner without losing any of there speed. In essence, those are the things that the 3-cone drill tests you on and it seems as if 7 seconds is a decent barometer for it.

Even though there were only 3 players to fit section B of the criteria - although I wouldn't be suprised if Harrison and Suggs jumped the neccessary amount to be in it - its obvious to me why a player would be effective with those measurements. By having the tremendous combination of both jumping numbers, it shows the explosion the player might have. All 3 linebackers in this area (as well as Woodley, who just missed out) use there explosion and strength to get to the QB rather then there pure speed and ability to turn the corner.

In case you were wondering, there are 4 potential 3-4 OLB prospects in this year draft who fit one of these criteria's...

FYI Quentin Groves never played in a legit 3-4. He played for the Jags 2 years as a 4-3 d-lineman and we played 3-4 very few times. Just a few looks of 3-4 then gave up on it because wrong personnel and staff to run it.

He went to Oakland where he now plays 4-3 LB and has had his best season thus-far. Never truly was a 3-4 LB and never played for the Dolphins. Not to be a jerk, but please do not be down on a player that you have posted about without proper research.

I also think u have Quentin Groves confused with Quentin Moses.

With that being said great post and this was being discussed earlier and the correlations are pretty accurate._________________

DarthDavis wrote:

I tell you I respect the Jags forum nothing but classy posters. They got a good group over there.

You are correct, I did confuse his with Quinton Moses. I'm just going to take him out of the study. Groves is actually someone I really wanted for the Jets 3-4 when he came out of Auburn. No need to state I need to do my "proper research", when I spent almost 10 hours on this. I made a mistake by swapping players, had nothing to do with lack of research. Easy mistake considering there 1 draft apart from each other, same first name, same size, same position (sort of), and one was drafted by the Raiders where as the other is on the Raiders.

And did you really have to quote my entire post just to make that point? Page strettcchhhh .

Wow I'm really blown away by the study you did. I personally never thought that these specific combine drills would have a correlation to production in the NFL. What you put together shows that it's very true. In that case I would love for the Jets to select Justin Houston, even though some scouts are saying that he can't stand up and that he is a 4-3 DE, I disagree.

I'd be interested in seeing this kind of data in regards to the players' 10 yard splits. While it is nothing more than a subset stat based on the 40 yard dash, it's a good barometer on how a player can "time their launch" based on audible sounds and get up to top speed when prompted to run.

IIRC, the 10 yard split rage really hit a peak when Clay Matthews ran a sub 1.6 10 yard split. One can make the direct correlation of Matthews' reaction time and ability to get to top speed right off the bat as one of the key pieces of his pass rushing skill (it's that and the hair, IMO)._________________

I'd be interested in seeing this kind of data in regards to the players' 10 yard splits. While it is nothing more than a subset stat based on the 40 yard dash, it's a good barometer on how a player can "time their launch" based on audible sounds and get up to top speed when prompted to run.

IIRC, the 10 yard split rage really hit a peak when Clay Matthews ran a sub 1.6 10 yard split. One can make the direct correlation of Matthews' reaction time and ability to get to top speed right off the bat as one of the key pieces of his pass rushing skill (it's that and the hair, IMO).

I can tell you that there is not much correlation. I have a list of pretty much every pass rushing 3-4 OLB in the past 8 years or so (about 30 players), along with there combine numbers that I compiled. There really is no real pattern with them and they flucuate a lot. There are players who you think would have great ten yard splits who don't and there are players who you would not expect them to have good splits and they did. It seems like a wash in someways, and has more to do with getting out of a track stance faster more so then anything else.

Kind of hard to take this stat serious when Kamerion Wimbley performed better then DeMarcus Ware. You can however take something away from Matthews split because it is so much better then everyone elses. But seems like theres no correlation and on-field diffrence between a 1.54 split and a 1.61 split. Hell, Vernon Ghlolston did it in 1.53 and I can say first hand he never fired off the line well.

I've always preached that you want a vert of 35", a broad of 10', a cone of about 7.10 or under, a shuttle of under 4.2, at least 20 reps, a 40 of at least 4.8, and 10 under 4.65.

Meet ALL of those criteria and you have a guy that will probably be reasonably decent at playing 3-4 OLB. Miss on one number, the guy still has a chance, miss on multiple #'s and the guy is a huge risk.

A couple of guys that GB has that were picked up to play the position:

Not elite by any means, and has no wow to his game, but all n' all he's a decent player. His workouts are pretty much paint that picture too. You also have to figure that he was an UDFA and not invited to the combine, and likely didn't have near the level of training at the drills that the rd 1/2 guys had.

Brad Jones, round 7, 4 sacks as a rookie (started half of '09 after Kamp went down with a knee, was on IR most of '10, but entered the year as GB's starter)
6'3", 232 lb, 4.54 40, 1.59 10, 19 reps, 33" vert, 9'11" long, 4.21 shuttle, 6.75 cone

Again, not elite by any means. He's not a fearsome pass rusher, but does have a speed rush with good bend (little else). However, if you look at those #'s, they are darn near DB #'s, and from day 1 he was really good dropping into coverage. It could be said that Clay's emergence was heavily tied to Jones taking over for Kamp, Kamp wasn't good at dropping and rushed the majority of the time, hence Clay had to drop a lot, when Jones came in Clay rushed a lot more as Jones could handle the zone drops. Obviously there are issues here, Jones was really small and has been bulking up. His injury this year is also an old one he had on draft day, it just got worse (shoulder). You can read his game in his #'s though, decent speed rush around the outside, good dropping into coverage. Not much in the run stopping and power rush department. Again, like Zombo, he was not invited to the combine and likely did not have that good of drill training.

One thing worth looking at with 3-4 OLB's is the shuttle-40 relationship. Subtract the shuttle time from the 40 time. Those with >0.5 tend to be good all around players at the position, that is they make good linebackers, and not just pass rushers. The exception to this rule at LB's are the turbo guys that can run really fast, overcoming their lack of COD skills with raw speed (at least under 4.6 40).

Pass coverage ability can almost always be read in the 3 cone at the position. Guy that do good at it (<7.1) are typically not a liability dropping. Guys that do great at it (a la Jones above) if they have awareness should have pass dropping as a strength of theirs, as Jones does. This holds true at all LB positions, not just 3-4 OLB. The 3 cone is a good test of LB pass coverage raw physical ability._________________

Kind of hard to take this stat serious when Kamerion Wimbley performed better then DeMarcus Ware. You can however take something away from Matthews split because it is so much better then everyone elses. But seems like theres no correlation and on-field diffrence between a 1.54 split and a 1.61 split. Hell, Vernon Ghlolston did it in 1.53 and I can say first hand he never fired off the line well.

We talked about this on 49ers MB. A guy posted something like this before the draft. I've said before the 10 yrd split is overrated. BJ, 3 cone and shuttle time is what to look for. Nice post. I've always been higher than most on Houston(top 15) and Acho(early 2nd rd) @ OLB. All they did was confirm what I saw on tape. Nice post by the way.