Actually tengkorak I think the "THink outside of school" mentality really hurts a lot of children.

I've known quite a few that wre so pressured to stay "outisde the system" by their parents that they really had issues making friends at all.

But beyond that, the idea has come full circle, as I've noticed now a lot of kids seem to think that working a trade, even going to college, is
beneath them.

We can't all be "special" children. If we are all special, then all we have done is raise the bar on averageness.

A lot of young people I know think should be able to come up with some idea, then the world will hand them life on a platter. Instead of looking to
invest in a career, they are waiting for that one "outside the box" thing that will never come for them.

I don't think people stop to think that we can't all be BIll Gatesfor instance. The world needs a lot more people working those "menial" jobs than
it does the innovators.

It was sad to me, so many people I knew in high school, now in college, would not want to work an otherwise stable and sometimes even lucrative job
because of that stigma of being "in the system."

I don't think there is anything wrong with kids today and I have several. They way our society deals with kids is very wrong however.

Success is punished, although we push this "be all you can be" crap. They don't even let kids play dodge ball on the playground because the fat
kids can't get out of the way and it hurts their feelings. They also in many cases don't let them pick teams because it hurts the feelings of
some kid who gets picked last, that kind of thing. For kids who are good at athletics and not so good at academics, their primary place to excel has
just been stripped away. Add to that the way we have cut out arts programs and the kid who has terific musical or artistic ability has been
stripped of that method of achievement and hence pride amongst his school mates. Boys are without question discriminated against. Schools
today are not willing to deal with spirited boys. they want them feminized and drugged up so that they can sit around like robots. that is simply
against the nature of a young boy who needs an outlet and is frankly much different than a young girl. I've got both and have friends who have both
and the differences are stark, even with twins. Boys are simply much more active and naturally agressive
We care too much about the feelings of kids today. I'm not suggesting that we ignore the feelings of kids, but speaking with them and dealing with
them like they have adult level emotional depth is stupid. They need structure, to know that they are safe and that you love them. If parents
started being parents instead of trying to be their kid's friends, the kids would be a lot better off. When I grew up, "johnny was a bad kid".
That was it. Folks did not try to figure out why and in many cases his parents did not either. Your were not allowed to play with Johnny and
hopefully Johnny's parents would get him into shape. What Johnny was doing was the issue. Not how Johnny was feeling that made him do it.
The activities today are far too serious. Some sports are year round, to get into a good college and play a major sport, you have to play both
school ball as well as a select league. Competetion on an academic level is much greater and it all adds up.
Bottom-line is that if you deal with kids the way you were dealt with and not in an "enlightened" way, they will be OK. Trying to insulate them
from the realities of the real world does them a diservice and as they get older and begin to realize that the world is a tough place and that they
have been unprepared to deal with it, the rage, drugs, etc manifests themselves. Kids are strong. They need guidance to give them the
opportunity to show and be proud of their strengths. we have taken too many opportunities away from them to do that.

It's really not that complicated. Kids are so guarded and protected for their own mental "well being", that the only endeavors the embark upon are
a video game, TV or anything else that provides fast satisfaction and little or no long term reward or use. Problem is they are being smothered in
protection and given no opportunity to actually live beyond an hour at a time. 'Course you could probably still call me a kid but that's my
opinion, no one has vision, those that do get it stomped out...

What I really think it is, is that there is so much pressure placed on us (I'm 18) and a lot of strange babying to go with it. It's confusing. I was
pushed so hard, everything was about school, I would get in trouble if I had multiple B's on my report cards. Then there are the rules about no
scoring in sports and no teams and all that nonsense.

In my opinion, school has one REAL purpose, and that is to teach you how to be a mindless drone. One that they condition to fit whatever mold they
want. It comes from experience. I was on the path to West Point in my freshman year when we moved to Florida half way through the school year. My
grades were great and I was headed for all GAP Honors classes.

However, I didn't fit the mold and conditioning that all the other GAP Honors kids had. The system here follows you with the same teachers and group
of students from elementary school. I didn't hang out with them, I spoke my mind and the teachers never liked my papers.

I was then endlessly harassed by the staff, the Deans and my Guidance Counselor in particular. They started taking my credits away and telling me that
I couldn't make the credits up because the grade was otherwise an A. The school district wouldn't help and I eventually figured out that I wasn't
the only one. Kids with high standardized test scores were kept like this so that the school could keep it's rating high.

Eventually I started getting in trouble for having an opinion on MySpace. I got in trouble for gathering with friends from school at parks and things
like that. They had me in school full time and in 6 classes online for a year. I'd finally had enough when they forced me to take the standardized
test for the grade below mine again. I asked why I had to take it because I had all the credits necessary to meet the requirements for exemption. I
was called into one of the Dean's offices and the woman harassed me until I was in the office crying and then she didn't want to let me call my
mother.

I left that school and found out later that the drop out rate was %73.

Originally posted by TasteTheMagick
What I really think it is, is that there is so much pressure placed on us (I'm 18) and a lot of strange babying to go with it. It's confusing. I was
pushed so hard, everything was about school, I would get in trouble if I had multiple B's on my report cards. Then there are the rules about no
scoring in sports and no teams and all that nonsense.

In my generation (60's), we were told to "do the best you can and learn from your mistakes and dont repeat those mistakes". There was some pressure
to acheive, but not in the "extreme". That is what I think is part of the problem..the "extreme" in practically everything. Well unfortunately,
blood cannot be squeezed from a turnip. Everything has a limit. Expectations that are byond the limit results in catastrophe.

Originally posted by TasteTheMagick
In my opinion, school has one REAL purpose, and that is to teach you how to be a mindless drone. One that they condition to fit whatever mold they
want.

That also seems to be the trend in the workforce. Companies will instead hire some fresh newbie still green behind the ears in any given field instead
of the more experienced, tamed and practical worker. You hit it spot on..they want someone they can mold, form and shape into their little "puppet"
instead of someone who can think on their feet and "Get er Done".

Another problem with schools these days is that they are severely overcrowded, have teachers that handle 30+ students per class, underpaid and
overworked, with very little time or will to give attention to the students. Plus, alot of the school rules have become too laxed in many areas. Dress
code, the allowing of cell phones and igadgets in class that only distract. Also what is taught is completely different, lacking the core basics and
foundations. It is more now of how many to pass to continue to get funding than it is to ensure quality education so that you have bonafide graduates
who actually know how to point out their state on a map or point out their country on a world map.

Then there is the home situation. Indeed when you get an entire generation of kids who are basically in a situation of "material love", where
parents just buy their kids stuff to keep them out of their way, that is neglect and is no wonder why so many kids are going in circles aimlessly on
an endless loop of confusion. Discipline has also gone to the wayside due to nosy neighbors and social workers who did not like it when they were
given a good arse whoopin when they were young, so now that they are adults they condem capitol punishment and the good parents cannot do the proper
discipline practices as once was common place.

Today many parents expect the school to do their job for them. Alot of parents are more concerned about their careers and bonuses for the holiday than
they are about their own kids. That is a very sad situation.

Basically there is alot to blame over the reasons why the young are in pain and angry at the world. More often than not, it all stems from one
place..in the home.

This has been going on for generations. Probably every generation. When some people get old, they look at the youth and label them as
"immoral, dim-witted and lacking ambition." And these people forget that they themselves did the very same things.

Morals are not out the window. The crime rate is the same as it was 50 years ago. The media is reporting more of it, but that doesn't mean that
there's more crime. People need to understand that not much actually changes between generations.

Discipline has also gone to the wayside due to nosy neighbors and social workers who did not like it when they were given a good arse whoopin

I can't agree more. I was spanked as a kid. Not always by just the hand of my parents either. I think I'm better because of it. I see a lot of
people, mostly around my brothers age(14). Who have NEVER EVER been spanked at all, only ever getting a time out now and again to the point where they
don't even care. I know I was a little ass when I got spanked, and that was the reason. A lot of kids don't even get that: I did something stupid or
bad thus I have been punished for that...probably don't want to do that again.

Now it's: Hey, I did something stupid or bad and all they did was make me sit in my room where I spend all my time anyway.

Right! It used to be the punishment fit the offense. When I was young and was restricted to my room, we didnt have computers or game consoles. We did
have small tv's and board games and such. But those things, incluidng all my model kits, other items that were a privilage to have and had to earn to
get them, were taken away during my room restriction.

I doubt that happens these days when a kid is told to go to their room as punishment. With all the gadgets these days, it would be like a vacation!

I dont know if its like this else where, but I live in NYC and there is sooo much negative energy here, it sucks the life out of you. I personally
think its because there are so many people in one place trying to reach the same goals, $$$, whether it be through college or on the streets selling
drugs, there is so much competition and with the future looking dark people are getting discouraged and taking it out any way they can.

children these days tend to be out of control, especially in the 18-21 range...although they're not really considered children, but they act like it.
anyway, my reasoning is simply that the generation that was raised with the idea that telling your child "no" is wrong and harmful are growing up
without any kind of social graces and that since they always got their way as children, it should continue into their adult life. so we have a
generation that doesn't understand that sometimes you just can't win. so they get angry and stomp their feet in little temper tantrums and cry
foul.

that, and we are so saturated with pop culture and technological distractions that they can't help but think that all that stuff is necessary to
their happiness and that their parents' should give them everything that they "should" have and that "all the other kids" have...even if the
"other kids" are just actors on TV or are celebrities with sickening amounts of money.

and of course, there are the doctors in the pockets of the pharmaceutical companies, who prescribe anti-depressants and other dangerous, experimental
drugs on children whose parents don't want to put effort into raising. i have seen this first hand, sadly, with my niece.
children are difficult little beasts, but i thank whatever that i'm not a child now. if i was, i would probably be diagnosed with autism, or ADHD or
ADD or whatever else they could make up to take the burden of raising a child off the shoulders of the parents, who, if they can't handle it,
shouldn't have had children to begin with.

ultimately it is the parents who are at fault in most situations; plopping the child in front of the television at ages as early as a year old?
that's disgusting. 2 and 3 year olds don't need to sit and watch DVD's and cable shows to keep them occupied. they need to play with other
children, and more importantly, to play with their parents and to know that their parents and family love them and want them around and that are not
just "mistakes". parents need to be patient and to understand that children are not tiny adults. the children don't know any better and grow up
accordingly, so they act like adults but have child brains. parents need to be parents, not friends, not authority figures, not wardens or police,
not bosses.

and yes, eating/drinking copious amounts of junk food and having little physical stimulation doesn't help matters either.
turn off the TV, eat some fruit, and go outside and play.

The OP has hit on an interesting point. The youth are bombarded with the spins and negetivism of the media(TV, radio). Gore and anger from movies
and games as well. But guess what that is the crap they willingly choose to put in their head. Somehow we as parents have fostered this
entertainment crazed group. Watch a family at a restaurant- more than once I have seen two teens(preteens) texting while dad is on the cell phone.
Nobody talks or even looks at each other.
As for choices you can change the channel, turn off the cell phone, read or work instead of yakking on cell phone or texting. I think they need
direction and adults have failed miserably with that. In some ways, some of these points are raised in the recent Clint Eastwood movie "Gran
Torino".

Oh, c'mon, the youth of today are feeling things that were unknown to earlier generations (of recorded/known history). They just won't tell you.

Some are pretty savvy: notice this is in the 'metaphysics' sub-category.

These young people will perceive and relate things to the world that have been not just lost and 'forgotten,' but attempt to bring them into their
lives. I'm not talking fantasy and si-fi; I'm talking realtime potential.

They'll have to fight the elders to do it: none are more suited, for they have a brilliance that will break forth, beyond imaginings.

I am now 21 years young. My anger and pain has subsided for the most part, replaced with something far more destructive, apathy. It may be easiest
to answer the questions simply by giving a short explanation of the life I have lived, and the experiences I have endured.

From age 1-12 I was a very successful child. I could count to well over 100 at the age of two, and was reading by age 5. Always had exemplary grades
and perfect attendance. I was a star athlete and was widely praised in the social arena. My teachers expected great things from me, and I rarely let
them down.

My family had owned rental properties as long as I could remember. At age 11 my parents sold them and bought a 1000 acre ranch. I suffered from
horrible allergies at the time and it was very difficult for me to spend time out there. My father bought my brother and I go-karts trying to bribe
us to go out there. I tried to explain to him that I still was unable to go. My eyes would swell shut and breathing would become so difficult that
at times I feared death. He told me I needed to toughen up and quit being a pussy. I told him I was sorry I was made this way, and he proceeded to
kick me about 10 feet across the room. He then told me I needed to move out. I went to pack my clothes. He came in the room and told me I could
only bring things I bought. So I grabbed the one shirt I had purchased on my own loaded it in a backpack and hid under a car in our driveway.

Shortly after that my parents divorced. With the divorce I learned that santa, the easter bunny, and the tooth fairy were fictitious. I also learned
that the idea of meeting a girl, settling down, having kids, a dog, and a white picket fence may be a fallacy as well.

I was in a very strange place. I went to one junior high, while all my grade school friends went to another. The divorce had become very ugly and
shortly after a close friend took his life. I had become utterly alone. Sure there were people around, but I could never really identify with any of
them. Toward the end of junior high I started faking sick to get out of school. Emotionally I was a wreck, and going to school to take more abuse
was the last thing I wanted.

Then I started high school. I still skipped class, but my grades were pretty good. My teachers despised me because I could miss class but still pass
the tests. I always knew I was intelligent, but I never really started to value it until then. I had realized that I could teach most of the classes
I was taking as well as, or better than, most of the teachers that were paid to teach me.

This was my first glimpse at a system that was failing us. I learned that school is about regurgitation as opposed to growth. A student is praised
for his ability to memorize as opposed to being praised for his ability to be creative. I realized that a world built on this foundation is set to
fall or stay stagnant. Either option was a failure in my opinion.

At 16 I dropped out of school and got a job. I bought a car and took my first step towards the modern materialist mind set. Every penny went into
making the car faster and more appealing. I started drinking, and started doing drugs. I realized that if I was under the influence I could pretend
that everything was okay and that I was happy. I was cited for possession of marijuana shortly after. I was put on youth probation. I very much
liked the probation officer. I looked forward to the meetings because we would just sit there and talk about life, sometimes for hours. I ended up
getting a ticket for possession of alcohol on my seventeenth birthday. I also failed a urinalysis the week before that. I went and met with my
probation officer. I figured I’d go to jail or end up on probation longer. It was actually just the opposite. He told me that I was far to bright
to get stuck in the system. We never had a meeting again. I was released from probation.

Between the age of 16 and 18 I went to school off and on. I would attend classes that had teachers worthy of teaching and drop the other classes.

I once was having a party at my house. One of the girls there became very emotionally unstable and started threatening to kill herself and others. I
asked her to leave. She waited patiently for her ride in the entryway. 20 minutes later I got a phone call, it was her cousin. He was pissed
because “I made her walk home.” He started threatening me. I had liquid courage at the time and told him to meet me outside my house. Shortly
after I get a call telling me he’s outside. I go to the front door and realize there are about 20-30 people at my house, in both the front and back
yards. I knew if I went outside it would be anything but a one-on-one fist fight. I called the 911 and told them what was going on. The lady on the
phone laughed at me and asked If I was joking. I told her I was serious and hung up the phone. One of the people outside pulled a gun, so myself and
some other people form the party went to the front door locked and loaded with an arsenal. The mob left my house after that, and the cops never
showed up.

At 18 a friend of mine had an appointment with the naval recruiter. I had gotten too high that afternoon and decided I'd go with him instead of
going home. My friend went to take a practice ASVAB and the recruiter convinced me to take it as well. The recruiter came back when time was up and
nearly defecated in his pants. I had scored a 99, which was a perfect score. After that I talked to other branches and finally decided on the
Marines. I went to MEPS in Denver. My official ASVAB score was a 97. The liaisons were absolutely floored. During the medical screening I told the
doctor I had bronchitis as a child. After reviewing my medical documents I was permanently disqualified from the military.

I had been dating the same girl from age 17-19. Her mother was a meth addict. At first I approached it with a live and let live mentality. Until it
started to effect her daughters well being. Her daughter and I got into an argument because I suggested her Mom get help. Later that evening her
Mom comes to my apartment and tells me she is clean and then precedes to point a gun to my head. This is when everything I knew changed. I was
viewing the room and my life in third person. It was so surreal. I decided the best option was to call her bluff. Next thing I know the guns in her
purse again and she's out the door. She ended up getting charged with aggravated assault and while searching her home for the gun they also found
380 grams of meth. She only served 7 months.

Shortly after the assault the girl and I split. It was very rough on me because she had become much like family to me. A few months after the
break-up her best friend told me she had gotten an abortion. I was clueless, in fact, I never even knew she was pregnant. I was absolutely crushed.
It took me months to build up the courage to confront her about it, and when I did, she got pissed at me. She accused me of trying to ruin her night
by bringing it up. Sadly, she was unable to see how much heartache she had caused me over the months I harbored the secret.

Right before turning nineteen I was cited for possession of marijuana. On my nineteenth birthday I was sentenced to one year of juvenile probation.
My probation officer came over that night and I was very intoxicated. He let it slide. During the time I was on probation I continued to abuse and
had my probation revoked on two separate occasions. Then the school year started. I went back and attended high school. I was the star pupil in my
school and received praise from both student and teacher. My performance in school made the courts so happy that I was released from probation 5
months early.

I continued to use and abuse after I was released. I started getting heavy into all topics that are discussed on ATS. I slowly started sobering up
as I learned more and more of the gross atrocities that are committed throughout the world on a daily basis. Shortly after my twenty-first birthday I
had my last drink. I have now been sober for nearly six months.

So here I sit today, sharing my story in hopes that it may give an incite into the types of experiences the youth deals with. In truth, the most
traumatic experiences were the experiences that helped positively sculpt my life.

I am still somewhat angry inside, only because I often feel powerless. The world around us needs change, and it seems like everyone but the youth is
interested in the status quo. This feeling of powerlessness is what has caused my anger to slowly dwindle to apathy. If you have any more questions,
ask.

That is such a sad story. But I expect no less from today's world. It really is the fact that so many generations thought that the status quo was
the way to go, that the crowd would always make the right decisions, and that they didn't really have to think on their own, because all their
decisions had already been made for them and they just went along without a question. I admire your independence Namaste, thanks so much for the eye
opening story.

I am 25 and lived a very similar life to yours up to this point, which I won't go into detail here.

The problem is with a lot of 'us' (putting myself in the young-people category) is that many see the world for what it is: people living their
nuclear family ideals, money is all that is powerful/meaningful, elders wasting their days trying to get enough green bits of paper together so they
can finally break the work cycle and retire to their just-paid-off homes to die... and we don't like what we see.

Some aren't even consciously aware of the reasons behind their actions, but the truth is your (older generation's) game stinks and we don't want to
play. The seeds were planted way back before we were born, it's just taken some time to filter through and finally surface - all we need is fresh
direction that doesn't come from the monetary system and the revolution will be here. I find it somewhat ironic that you often hear the term
'sheeple' bandied about by users of these forums and yet that's exactly what they, themselves are.

SS,Naga makes a good argument a few posts back - the near future could be very interesting indeed.

What I don’t understand is why the schools and parents are always blamed for these depressed, destructive kids. Sometimes children just end up that
way, for whatever reason, sometimes because of chemicals in their brains that they can’t control.

Some kids are not “fixable” and were not broken by a society. Sometimes it isn’t anyone’s fault. That’s the hard truth of the matter.
Demonizing parents and reworking the school system will not save them. Even their parents have to acknowledge this when this is what they are faced
with or they set themselves up for a lot of grief and disappointment.

If reaching out doesn’t work, if getting them help doesn’t work then they’re on their own as adults to figure themselves out, and sometimes this
works, sometimes drastic or subtle things transform people, but it’s up to them to change, not society- by then even if society was at fault it’s
already too late.

People will never be perfect, society will never be perfect, striving for perfection and clinging to naïve notions, or spiteful finger pointing will
not save us from the angry young and it certainly won’t save them.

At the risk of sounding like a bitter geriatric old man I have to call it like I see it.

These kids today by and large have no respect for anyone or anything. They value nothing.

And the reason they are the way that they are is because they mirror their parents.......who also have no respect for anyone or anything. Most of them
have grown up being parented by the stupid box and have had noone to show them how to behave reasonably.

All they know is me, me, me...whats in it for me.....but I want this and that....spoiled obnoxious little reflections of their irresponsible adult
role models.

I consider myself to have been rambunctious and a bit wild when I was a lad so I know what I am saying here, if I had behaved like or spoken to my
folks the way kids today do I would have had my little a$$ whipped.

If anyone wonders why our prisons are full capacity, it is because kids are growing up to be men who do not understand the concept of "no". And any
parent who actually does have the courage to discipline their kids get taken to task by an educational and legal system that promotes coddling and
rewards irresponsibility.

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