MODERATORS

I am in a bit of a position. I am a 21 year old male, and I feel like I want someone special in my life. A partner, you know? But the problem is I kinda stayed away from talking to to girls while I was a teenager and carried that all the way to who I am now. I just kinda froze and got very self aware around the fairer sex. Got really awkward. However, I also started disassociating myself from people in general, and I kinda became an angry bitter person. Recently though, I have become quite lonely, and I want to talk with someone, but I cannot because I feel that my social and communicating skills are very poor. I feel that I could treat her right, respectfully and do what it takes to be the best person for her. However, I also fear that I might be getting into relationship for entirely wrong reasons: sex and a physical relationship (God knows I think about it a lot, and I have never even had any). But still, I feel guilty as to why I might be searching for a relationship, and that makes me depressed. I do not know what kind of person I am, and I feel rather shitty about looking for sex in a relationship.

So, I felt like the best way to snap out of this is to start socializing again. Not really look for a relationship, but to establish a much bigger and healthier social circle. I tend to be loud and almost like a clown in front of close friends and family, and I am generally regarded as a good person by them. But the moment I meet someone new, or I see someone attractive, I freeze and go full recluse. I do not know how to stop this.

I have begun by trying to make eye contact with people, strangers. Not lingering or creepy, but simple eye contact. it has done wonders, but I cannot seem to move beyond that. I do not know how to socialize well, and I kinda need help.

As an older married guy who was once in your position, my recommendation is to own your situation. Own your singleness. Revel in the freedom. Exploit the opportunity to do things on your own.

In college, I took an 18 month hiatus from my frenetic attempts to "fit in" and date, and just enjoyed being a single guy. I read thousands of pages of philosophy, theology, history and poetry. I walked in the woods. I went free-climbing on rock faces over rivers with a close friend from the dorm. I went to a foreign country to help the poor build houses.

I smiled at girls, made corny jokes, and threw out cheesy compliments, but mostly just watched and listened and learned. I thought a lot about the casual dating in junior high and high school and how pointless it had been. And then I did the INTJ thing and went into systems analysis mode.

I drew up charts and graphs of my various relationships and social interactions and concluded that there was really only one very, very specific type of woman I would want to spend the rest of my life with. In spite of my dorm-mates' jibes and jokes, I determined that I would either live the rest of my life as a hermetic philosopher-monk, or fate/God/the Universe would help me find "the one".

I had resolved myself quite happily to the monastic ideal, when I met her. She fit every "check in the box" on my list (except one, that I determined I could deal with, due to her possessing other unanticipated bonus qualities) and I told my roommate after the first outing that I was going to marry her. He laughed.

But, well over a decade later, we're still married.

My advice on socializing is to do what you can. INTJ's are good at observing, analyzing and coming to conclusions. We may suck at interpreting social cues and may miss all sorts of unspoken clues. But our hidden gift is that with our capacity for information storage and retrieval, we can become good imitators of behavior.

I am a natural social misfit, awkward and weird. But most people's first impression of me is the opposite. They believe I'm gregarious, charming and out-going. It's all just a survival act, but if you learn to play the game, (and you CAN), it can work for you. Just be sure you have plenty of "off" time to hide in dark quiet rooms away from everybody.

Study the various James Bond's, Cary Grant, Matt Damon, and other magnetic personalities that owned the room/stage/scene when they walked in. Imitate. Benefit. Smile knowingly, charmingly, disarmingly, when accused of being a ham/cornball/class-act.

And most of all, treat yourself well. Get plenty of rest. Exercise, and drink plenty of water. It's a hard battle to be around people and express interest in them. It's downright exhausting to listen and focus and really, truly care about what they're saying. But if you have exhausted your own reserves (which, for we INTJs, are apparently minuscule), you won't have anything left for others.

And then you'll be angry. And sad. Alone. Which isn't ALWAYS bad. But when you're ALWAYS alone, it isn't good.

I agree with a lot of what you have said, (and you've been a lot more successful at the whole "find a mate" thing than I have!) but I'm personally not a fan of mental checklists when it comes to the opposite sec. IMO, one of the best things about relationships is that you come across things you never would have thought of, and then you get a whole new way of seeing the world. They are useful as a guide to what might work and what won't, but I would be careful of being blinkered by checklists.

As someone who has found a perfect mate, I agree that creating a mental checklist is a bad idea and can severely limit yourself.

It's great that it worked for this person. His story is very romantic. But it doesn't always work out that way. What if your checklist is wrong? Will you miss out on the happiest possible outcome of your life because you nerded out too hard about an illogical thing?

After our first date, I vowed I would never go out with my now-wife again. She drove me crazy! And then she drove me crazy. And over a decade later, we're still together - working through our issues, building our family, and planning the rest of our lives together with a happiness and contentment I never even had the capacity to imagine before her.

The point being, never say never. It's okay to have ideals, but don't let them develop into expectations or you may be disappointed.

It started with a very simple pros/cons, two-columns on a legal pad. Then I started digging deeper into other qualities, traits, family relationships and evaluating how they'd all influenced past relationships for good or for bad. Based off of my previous dating experiences, I predicted what sort of traits would probably work better or worse for future relationships.

A lot of it ended up being meaningless, but it helped me identify traits that were definitely deal breakers, those that were highly desirable, and then those that were irrelevant.

You just have to go into a relationship with your eyes wide open and accept and love the person as they are, with no agenda to try and "change" or "fix" them. It won't happen. If anything, once they feel secure in a marriage relationship, the traits that were minorly annoying, will probably become more pronounced.

IF you want things to work into time spans of decades, you have to just decide that it's worth it to overlook the small things, as the good parts of a mostly healthy long-term relationship certainly outweigh the small annoyances, for which our own neuroses may be held as responsible as our SO's shortcomings.

I am much the same way, have always been. I have also found it is hard to do something about when coupled with social anxiety. I am however making progress, learning how to "play the game", and if I can get myself in the correct mental state before I meet someone (by this I meen go do something with a group of strangers/friends), I can be quite charming or at least normal, though I quickly fall into the quiet trap again and must constantly fight it.

If I have the energy and mental state for it, I can also talk and engage with almost anyone, but if I'm even a little bit drained, I retract and start analyzing stuff inside my head again.

Find something you're interested in, and then find other people that are interested in the same thing. It's much easier to start up a friendship when there is something else involved - instead of awkwardly trying to find conversation topics, play chess for example. You've got something to focus on that isn't "oh god, I'm being social!!" but something that will generate conversation quite naturally. For me, it was joining my college's music society.

Also, find somewhere to throw yourself in the deep end! If something comes up, such as an invite to a largish party that you don't know many people at, go for it! Rock, introduce yourself to a heap of people, and just see what happens. Talk about music, the weather, how you know (or don't) other people there, what do for a job/college, the whole works. You do that, you meet a few people, then you get invited to a few more parties, and the game continues. And if socialising goes badly; well, you never have to see those people again.

As to a relationship - stop thinking of girls as another species. Talking to girls like normal human beings will get you much further than putting them on a pedestal. (Source - I'm female). They fundamentally want the same things in relationships as guys do, in that everyone wants something different. So don't have the aim of meeting girls - aim to make friends and widen your social circle. The relationship will follow :)

I'd expand this and say one should consider dabbling in a bunch of slightly interesting topics. My friends love hanging out with me because I can go from a conversation about jazz music to obscure fantasy literature by way of ancient Greek and Roman architecture and there's almost always something in that path that resonates with people. The challenge here is not to be a smartass about it and try to demonstrate your intellectual superiority (which, trust me, you don't really have, you're likely just more "book smart" than most of the people there) but to genuinely engage with the others on a topic which they find meaningful.

I spent much of my life basically only caring about video-games and books, which limited my social circles to people who cared about them about as much as I did. Once I got to college I was fortunate enough to have lots of friends in a bunch of different fields, and I realized that I could maximize those friendships by picking up a basic foundation in lots of different things. I can have a discussion or debate with my economics and political science friends and quickly jump to philosophy or religion. I also got a lot more interested in art in general and music in particular, and while I still don't care much for pop culture (aside from games) I at least make an attempt to be conversant in it.

Like I said, the issue here is to really be interested in things and thus be interesting. It takes a lot of practice to know how to approach conversations (remember, you don't want to dominate it but rather be able to be responsive and a good conversationalist regardless of the topic) but it's something that I think INTJs can be good at. This increases confidence and gives you a decent foundation to use when practicing conversation. I still routinely miss what other people would consider obvious cues in conversations, but I can usually regain composure quickly and I don't usually have to worry about being a fish out of water because I have at least a bit of grounding in the subject at hand.

Totally. I've been invited to friends' parties before with the specific reason given being because I would be able to hold a decent conversation with all the other people there. If I'd remained a game geek then that wouldn't have been the case.

Now that's what I should have done. Too late now though. I actually did use to play in an orchestra, but I lost all interests and motivation after I got the basics. I stayed for a while more, but ultimately quit. I should have rejoined in college, but I was too stupid to see past that I thought my instrument was boring and gone for the people xD

Or maybe learned something else..

I try to go to parties when I can, and sometimes it works out pretty well, but I never really make friends aka I pretty much never talk to or see the people I meet there again.

Practicing small talk is the only way to expand your social options. You need to work on genuine facial expressions, studying certain types of movies for this can help, but a mirror might work just as well if you have an idea of what you're doing.

You need to work on controlling a comfortable and consistent voice that will make people comfortable talking to you for the first time. This is something that's more difficult than it sounds, because you can't control how people react to you, but you can improve your odds with practice.

Never be aggressive, allow most of your new conversations to be perhaps 1 to 3 exchanges, and build on those successes by learning from them and feeling good about them.

One of the easiest ways to meet girls is to join social circles, or social organizations. You need to meet males who regularly socialize with groups of people, because they're most likely to introduce you to girls, and meet new girls with you for the first time.

Dress nicely, girls notice this almost before they realize that you're a man or a woman because of how materialistic the world is. They're looking for money before anything else. Tell girls you take care of yourself with a fresh and regular haircut. Speak clearly and always give the impression that you're enjoying yourself. No one wants to talk to someone who's depressed or needs emotional support.

Hope all this helps. It may take weeks, it may take years, but you've gotta develop these skills. Good luck.

Step one is stop thinking of us as The Fairer Sex ;) Approach us like we're people first and potential dates second. You're definitely on the right track with trying to establish a bigger and healthier social circle. The more comfortable you are talking with women in a casual setting where there's no expectation of picking her up, the more comfortable you'll be talking with women when you do want to ask them out.

It's fine to want a relationship for both companionship and sex; I think most people who are looking for a partner want that. There's no need to feel guilty for wanting to have some sex! The thing to remember is it can take a lot of trial and error before you find someone where you want to have sex with them and they also want to have sex with you, and it's just about personal tastes; if someone isn't attracted to you, that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you, they just weren't the right person.

Pop culture promotes a lot of messed up ideas about relationships: like how many thousands of cartoons have we seen where Boy meets Girl and she doesn't have a personality but she's pretty so he wants her, but there's another boy who's a big, strong jerk, so the underdog Boy has to do something impressive to prove to Girl that he actually has higher status than Muscle Guy, and it works and Boy gets Girl because female humans aren't people with their own individual preferences and agency, they're prizes to be given to the most deserving males. I just saw one like that on The Simpsons. Obviously it's 100% bullshit; people like each other because their personalities are compatible, not because one has achieved high enough status to earn the other.

...yeah that got a little ranty. My point is our culture seems to encourage men to put women on a pedestal and feel like it's scary to talk to us because a man's worth is affected by whether a particular woman accepts or rejects him. And it's not, I want to nip that in the bud. I'm not saying you're being sexist or anything like that, and it's hard to talk to anyone if you don't have a lot of experience socializing (and maybe have some anxiety issues if you're like me), but when a man is nervous about talking not just to people but to women specifically, that says to me he might have absorbed some of these ideas from pop culture that aren't helping him.

The eye contact is good, remember to smile too. And it's OK to be awkward - own your awkwardness and laugh it off, don't worry about trying to be suave. Introverts tend to be good listeners so you have an advantage there. People like to talk about themselves; you can have a conversation without having to come up with a lot of things to say if you show interest in what they're talking about and ask them questions. But if they never talk about something you're interested in and they don't respond when you bring up interesting things, then it's time to find someone else to talk to ;) If they're part of the group, you can still get along with them (getting along with boring people is a very useful skill to practice!), just try not to get trapped in a one-on-one conversation.

I've been reading captainawkward.com for a few months and it has excellent advice for people like us who don't have a lot of experience with socializing. You can even write in if you have a specific question, but there's already a lot of general dating advice in the archives that I think you'll find helpful.

That was well constructed. I particularly enjoy your bit of insight into how popular culture. I agree that popculture, particularly romcoms about the nerdy guy, portray relationships and how the actors perform what could be called "creepy" but well-intentioned romantic acts can give a poor role model for romantic relations.

The one thing that really broke the floodgates for me was Burningman. I hung out with a crew from a different state, lots of beautiful acrobats and funny-smart engineers. And over the last decade I've learned that everyone is just people, even super hot smoking babes with their tits out. Maybe that sounds trite, but it was an important lesson for me.

one simple fun thing you can do is to smile at strangers. i do it sometimes, just smile at people as you go through your day. it's infectious so the more people you smile at the better your smiles will get. makes you feel great.

You just need confidence. The best way to gain confidence, in my opinion, is to know who you are at this point in time, then acknowledge your flaws and actively work towards overcoming them.

I don't mean some life-long inner exploration bullshit. You know exactly who you are right now, and it sounds like you're actively working to better yourself as well.

So what reason do you have to not feel confident? None. You are a perfectly valid person. Your awkwardness, or you shyness, or whatever, do nothing to devalue you as a person. Everyone has flaws, and you're working to fix yours - so you're already ahead of the curve.

Not everyone will like you, but someone will. So be the person you want to be, and then expose yourself (not like that) to people until you find someone who appreciates the person you are.

The second best way to gain confidence is to feign confidence long enough to get yourself out there and realize that it isn't nearly as bad as you imagine it to be.

Check out meet ups in your area. Go do things you like to do, socially. Heck, I just signed up for a group called "The Geek Club" full of nerdy, socially tentative people just like me, haha.

You sound like you might also have some social anxiety. If you're in school, it's usually free to talk to a counselor, who can help determine whether you're just socially inexperienced or whether you might need more than just help gaining confidence and meeting people.

My personal story from a girls perspective: in order to get of this rut (I was a virgin at 20) I just started throwing myself at any opportunity to go socialize. Especially where we would be drinking so that I could have some courage juice to do what I really wanted. This opened up chances to get out of my super prude phase. I know this is looked down upon but I slept with anyone I was attracted to to get over this stiff felling I got whenever a guy would get close to me. I would just get stuck and nervous and couldn't progress to any stage after that awkward flirtatous stage.

I'm a quick learner so it didn't take me long to figure out who I was and really loosen up and not be so....stiff. I kept my count of sexual partners below 5 (including my husband) just as my own preference. It was just enough to loosen me up and get me ready for my relationship with my life partner and love of my life.

You may have to have a few one night stands (safely!) to get over that stuckness your going through. If you can find another way major kudos since this option is probably not ideal but just an idea as it's what helped prepare me for when I did meet the one that wasn't just for sex.

Hey man. I know that feel (well some of it). I will start off by saying that you seem to be looking at this as logically as one can, which is a great start. I like that you are starting with small steps like eye contact. Thats something I am trying to nail myself at the moment. Even throw in a wry little smile when its a cute girl of you are feeling up for it. You will be surprised at the confidence boost you will get from a positive reaction. Be it a fleeting smile or whatever.

I know this is gonna sound a bit odd but before you do anything else read Neil Strauss' book "The Game". Its pretty infamous at this stage and some of the material is ever so slightly dated and pussy orientated but the book doesn't exactly show you how to bed women, but how to act and feel confident enough in yourself. I'm sure you can find it TPB or whatever but if you like it I would suggest buying it simply as a thank you to him.

My fucking god just commenting to say that that is one of the best books (or hell, the best) I've ever read. I turned 21 yesterday, and in the kissless virgin situation (much like Neil Strauss was) and what I am actually finding to my amazement is that I'm actually going through the phases of his thinking just like he was in his book... aynway, that book was incredible.

All humans are herd animals. They require contact with others in order to maintain a healthy mental state. As much as I spend a lot of time by myself, I also make time for my friends or for romantic relationships. Not just because it is enjoyable (in bits) but also because it is good for me. More importantly, Social skills are skills and like any skills they become dulled when they are not practiced. When this skill is not practiced, an anxiety can be born, which causes isolation and a very bad cycle continues.

A lot of people seem to confuse social anxiety and awkwardness with introversion. Not only is that wrong, it also does those people who have anxieties a disservice. It justifies those terrible feelings. I have some anxieties, but they are not related to my introversion. Introversion relates to how a person "recharges". Introverted people recharge by spending time by themselves, working on projects by themselves, etc. Extroverts find their energy from others, that is what motivates them.

I think its a very dangerous thing to equate anxiety and introversion. If I had written off my anxieties as a facet of my introversion, I would have no friends, no relationships, not have my job, and generally be a very lonely and sad person.

As far as your problem OP, you need to slowly re-intergrate yourself into social situations. Do this gradually. If you have one friend, go out with him or her and their friends. Don't over think things. Don't try to over-compensate. Just relax. Don't try to be funny or charming. Just try to get through the night. And remember, if you are with others, especially people who know each other already, there is absolutely no pressure to maintain or add (much) to the conversation. Most awkwardness comes from trying too hard.

Good luck. I am fairly successful at my social life but I used to be like you. What you need are rational instructions you can read and integrate into your life, and then try them out to see how they work.

Fortunately, this kind of thing exists. There's a lot of it though, and going through all the material will take a long time. Took me years. Google these terms: "active listening" "presence in conversation" "cultivating presence" "kinesics" and information on how to have good conversations. These kinds of things will start opening up other bits of information you could use. In terms of how to be better with women, I recommend a few things: a book "How to succeed with women", and by the same authors a cd "Overcoming the Nice Guy Syndrome: How to Stop Being Shy Without Becoming A Jerk". For online seduction resources, the most moral and logical ones I've found that don't resort to useless trickery, being a jerk, or unfair manipulation would be "The tao of badass" "authentic man program" and selections from the free website Pickup Podcast.

I recommend first learning about active listening and communication skills and then taking that information into the field and testing it out. You'll find it to be really a lot of fun. This is how you stop the vicious cycle from a downward direction to an upward one. The way to get out is use meetup.com or some other internet social website that encourages real life meetings. Find a reddit meetup if you want, I've been to a couple, they are nice.

I also highly suggest getting yourself involved in learning some sort of dance.

It also makes you dependent on the dopamine release. I suggest the opposite, don't masturbate at all, and use the pent up energy to do constructive things, like running, which will get you out of the dumps and improve your station in life.

Even if you are doing both, you're still dependent (addicted in some cases) to the dopamine rush. I propose that the masturbating internet porn addled culture we live in today is, in fact, inferior to previous incarnations. Not because there is porn, there has almost always been porn, but because we have become trapped in a Skinner box ready to push the button and pull the lever (how's that for innuendo).

I respectfully disagree. The vibe on reddit may for the whole be one of immaturity, but there's a lot of wisdom hiding here. There's millions of people on reddit. One of them probably has the solution to your problem.

Have you read the top rated comments on here? There is some wisdom. The beauty of Reddit's design (literally the reason I come to the site at all) is that it is separated into subreddits where you can find advice relevant to subject matter and relevant to point of view (this thread being of the latter variety, but if posted elsewhere may be from former). The more specialized the sub the more likely you are to get relevant advice and information, right up until it becomes a needle stack with a single piece of hay at the bottom.