Since as far as I am concerned baseball comes in a pitiful 4th behind football, hockey and baseketball it's easy for me to bail out. AGON caught looking at a 3rd stike from Mariano with the bases jammed at Fewnay Park (instead of at least fouling it off) did it for me. I never let a wife, employer, neighbor or acquaintence give me a bad day and I'll be damnned if a baseball team is going to put a cloud over my head. I'm done with the the Sox. I'll wait for the Bruins to get excited. Sox will have to settle for the wildcard and steal one from the Yanks at the Stadium if they survive Texas. And MAYBE then I will turn in and see what's going on. Maybe!

Well, don't know that I'd have actually started a thread about it, but I can't say as I don't understand the sentiment. Playing like crap, injuries mounting, the end could be nearer than we'd like to imagine.

ya i understand your frustration fenwayjack. it has been the same story every year with the sox since 07. start slow, pick up and then stall out at the end due to injuries and lack of depth. how is it that so many redsox players get injured every year? and you would think theo would have realized by now that bench depth is huge for the success of the sox as they continue to sustain a large amount of injuries every year. for a gm who gets as much praise as theo, he sure makes a lot of mistakes whether it be signings, trades, etc. and considering that he has been responsible for 1 world series champsionship during his 7 or 8 year tenure as sox gm, (he does not deserve credit for 2004 due the fact that the majority of the players on the team were already there before theo took over) i think theo is extremely overrated. this past trade deadline was a clear example as to just how bad theo is. this team had the potential to be a world series caliber team even with buchholz getting injured for pretty much the rest of the season. in order to make up for the loss of buchholz, they need to make multiple moves at the deadline. first was a starting pitch to replace clay. theo got bedard for 4 prospects. decent trade but high risk. (injury prone, jsut came off the DL a few days prior to the trade, never pitched in september or october) he then also traded for mike aviles which i would consider a low risk low impact pick up. and then he decided that he was done when the sox clearly had more holes to fill. right field was a huge question mark with josh reddick being unproven and drew again landing on the DL. hunter pence was availble and would have been a good fit for the sox in right field going forward. and he added one thing the sox really need, a right handed impact bat. theo passed on him. ubaldo jimenez was available but the price was too high. fair enough. now that leads me to one area that theo really could have improved on and thats the bullpen. there is far too much unpredictability in the sox pen. you never know what your gunna get from guys like albers, bowden, morales, doubront, wheeler, etc. jenks was on the DL and still is and is now likely out for the season. (another great signing by theo). so what the sox really needed was a reliable late inning set up man. and the perfect replacement for jenks just so happened to be available in the form of mike adams who has been one of the most consistant and reliable shut down relievers in the mlb the last 3 or 4 years. theo again decides to pass and mike adams ended up a texas ranger when it was all said and done. as did another good bullpen option in koji uhera. (though i was ok with him passing on uhera) so theo passed on hunter pence(who the went to an already strong phillies team who is the team to beat this year), mike adams, koji uhera, ubaldo jimenez, and eventually mike gonzalez. lots of good pieces to be had but theo came away with 1 injury prone starter. the sox needed a boost adn theo failed to deliver. he claimed that the bullpen would be fine going forward when in reality it has been any but. now the sox are 2.5 games out of first and are heading in the wrong direction. beckett is injured, bedard is injured(imagine that), miller is tanking, wake is still extremely mediocre and lackey is still struggling. i hope theo takes the cubs gm job after this year so the sox can get a gm who is actually good at something outside of drafting.

At the risk of being called a chronic whiner, it sure seems to me any Sox fan new or old, good or bad, is just as entitled to vent his or her frustration at this point, as any member our high priced, All Star laced line up is entitled to cash their pay checks, after once again just showing up.

Those here venting their frustration, are no more aggravating to me then those who chose to use stats to look at things through rose colored glasses, and in the process avoid seeing what is clear.

As Toronto demonstrated yesterday, even if our pitchers throw a shut out, we still need to find a way to push across at least one run to win!!!

I know all the stat guys will jump all over me as they did last week when I said our team, especially our line up, lacks a winning attitude. To me sadly the difference that way between our team, and our hated (but still respected) rivals was made crystal clear yesterday. 5 of our pitchers combine to give up one run in 11 innings, and we still lose. Meanwhile 7 New York pitchers combine to give up 10 runs in 9 innings, and they still win.

This is now the second time in a week our line up has produced nothing. Frankly when your losing by 10 runs I can better accept that then when you lose by 1 run. Just like if your shut out by Cliff Lee, and not 5 or 6 guys.

What really bugs me here is that we all know our line up is far better then this. I know key injuries this year have once again devastated us. But New York has had to deal with the same problem once again year, and once again this year, has managed to find a way.

Our line up is every bit a strong as New York's. Right now our pitchers need that half of the equation to live up to their abilities. We need a winning attitude in spite of adversity from our very gifted line up. Starting tonight they need to demonstrate if they actually have the ability to kick it up several notches.

What's left of our Starting Pitching staff in general is not going to give up less then 4 or 5 runs a game. We need RUNS, and lots of them!!

And NO I am not a Yankee Troll. I am only a long time (50+ years) dedicated Sox fan who has seen this act so many times before I am sick of it! There is a time to forget the stats, and the injuries, and just refuse to lose....... Now is that time for our team!!

The formula for losing is weak hitting and pitching, and that's the case with the Sox. Yesterday demonstrated how bad the hitting can get, but it was one of the few games recently in which the Sox pitching was very good. And it could not happen at a worse time.

Hey Jack, hang in there. No reason to give up now. The Sox will be just fine. Too much is being focused on AGon striking out the other night. That game is old news and we continue on to the playoffs. The best part of the season is right ahead.

As Dennis Eckersly said after the game... ONLY Mariano gets THAT call!!! No other pitcher gets that pitch called a STRIKE because it WASN'T a strike... Gonzalez had been swinging at BALLS recently... I give him credit for reigning in his anxiousness and NOT swinging at yet another ball!!! It's a risk the umpire will do what he did and even with a catcher setting up inside and practically diving outside to catch the pitch, most umpires aren't going to end a game on an iffy pitch... When Peter Gammons and Eckersly both are frothing at the mouth at the call you know it most likely wasn't a strike!

At the risk of being called a chronic whiner, it sure seems to me any Sox fan new or old, good or bad, is just as entitled to vent his or her frustration at this point, as any member our high priced, All Star laced line up is entitled to cash their pay checks, after once again just showing up. Those here venting their frustration, are no more aggravating to me then those who chose to use stats to look at things through rose colored glasses, and in the process avoid seeing what is clear. As Toronto demonstrated yesterday, even if our pitchers throw a shut out, we still need to find a way to push across at least one run to win!!! I know all the stat guys will jump all over me as they did last week when I said our team, especially our line up, lacks a winning attitude. To me sadly the difference that way between our team, and our hated (but still respected) rivals was made crystal clear yesterday. 5 of our pitchers combine to give up one run in 11 innings, and we still lose. Meanwhile 7 New York pitchers combine to give up 10 runs in 9 innings, and they still win. This is now the second time in a week our line up has produced nothing. Frankly when your losing by 10 runs I can better accept that then when you lose by 1 run. Just like if your shut out by Cliff Lee, and not 5 or 6 guys. What really bugs me here is that we all know our line up is far better then this. I know key injuries this year have once again devastated us. But New York has had to deal with the same problem once again year, and once again this year, has managed to find a way. Our line up is every bit a strong as New York's. Right now our pitchers need that half of the equation to live up to their abilities. We need a winning attitude in spite of adversity from our very gifted line up. Starting tonight they need to demonstrate if they actually have the ability to kick it up several notches. What's left of our Starting Pitching staff in general is not going to give up less then 4 or 5 runs a game. We need RUNS, and lots of them!! And NO I am not a Yankee Troll. I am only a long time (50+ years) dedicated Sox fan who has seen this act so many times before I am sick of it! There is a time to forget the stats, and the injuries, and just refuse to lose....... Now is that time for our team!!Posted by tetonman50

5 of our pitchers combine to give up one run in 11 innings, and we still lose. Meanwhile 7 New York pitchers combine to give up 10 runs in 9 innings, and they still win. Well said. baseball can be mysterious at times, but what happened to the sox yesterday is not acceptable

In Response to Re: Signing off : 5 of our pitchers combine to give up one run in 11 innings, and we still lose. Meanwhile 7 New York pitchers combine to give up 10 runs in 9 innings, and they still win. Well said. baseball can be mysterious at times, but what happened to the sox yesterday is not acceptablePosted by mick711

Exactly Mick, this is not acceptable!! And calling it unacceptable does not make anyone of us who feel that way, a whiner. There is something seriously wrong here. I'm hearing more whining about a bad call by an umpire, which sadly are going to happen, then the fact that our entire line up cannot manage to produce a single run in two games this past week.

I understand that these days baseball is first and foremost just another business. To that end Theo has done a great job in assembling a money making machine for the owners. But I think we fans who foot the bills really want more then just that from our hard earned dollars!!!!

Why is wild card runner up acceptable in Boston, and typically not in New York? At this point things going as they are, even wild card runner up is not a shoe in.

To the stat lovers out there I totally agree clearly the stats show this to be a gifted team. But in the end only one stat matters that is W&L.

Now just like 2004 in the ALCS against the Yankees this line up has to demonstrate it has the heart to dig deep enough to get out of the hole they and some adversity is quickly digging themselves into, and get the job done. Is there a stat that measures that requirement? Or is that simply called professional pride?

As Dennis Eckersly said after the game... ONLY Mariano gets THAT call!!! No other pitcher gets that pitch called a STRIKE because it WASN'T a strike... Gonzalez had been swinging at BALLS recently... I give him credit for reigning in his anxiousness and NOT swinging at yet another ball!!! It's a risk the umpire will do what he did and even with a catcher setting up inside and practically diving outside to catch the pitch, most umpires aren't going to end a game on an iffy pitch... When Peter Gammons and Eckersly both are frothing at the mouth at the call you know it most likely wasn't a strike!

----------------------------------------------------All in all, a great pitch.

In Response to Re: Signing off : Exactly Mick, this is not acceptable!! And calling it unacceptable does not make anyone of us who feel that way, a whiner. There is something seriously wrong here. I'm hearing more whining about a bad call by an umpire, which sadly are going to happen, then the fact that our entire line up cannot manage to produce a single run in two games this past week. I understand that these days baseball is first and foremost just another business. To that end Theo has done a great job in assembling a money making machine for the owners. But I think we fans who foot the bills really want more then just that from our hard earned dollars!!!! Why is wild card runner up acceptable in Boston, and typically not in New York? At this point things going as they are, even wild card runner up is not a shoe in. To the stat lovers out there I totally agree clearly the stats show this to be a gifted team. But in the end only one stat matters that is W&L. Now just like 2004 in the ALCS against the Yankees this line up has to demonstrate it has the heart to dig deep enough to get out of the hole they and some adversity is quickly digging themselves into, and get the job done. Is there a stat that measures that requirement? Or is that simply called professional pride? Posted by tetonman50

We won the 2004 ALCS because:

The planets were perfectly alligned.GRD into the RF stands was lucky.Fortunate timely hits by Papi and others.Choke by Yankees

Why not wait until the ALCS before you panic and pass judgementYou seem premature in giving up.

In Response to Re: Signing off : We won the 2004 ALCS because: The planets were perfectly alligned. GRD into the RF stands was lucky. Fortunate timely hits by Papi and others. Choke by Yankees Why not wait until the ALCS before you panic and pass judgement You seem premature in giving up.Posted by Your-Echo

Hi Echo, Actually I am trying my best to not give up. But honestly if we all just follow your advice (in particular those who can actually shake up this line up and wake them up) and wait until the ACLS to pass judgement, we will be passing judgement on two other teams, not Boston. Someone from Tito or the FO needs to show some emotion here!!!

Your 100% correct in that it's premature to give up on this team. But I also believe I am correct in pointing out that a team with this much talent, being so hot and cold at bat, or even able to manufacture a single run or two in games like last night, has some serious problems someplace.

Our pitching is what our pitching is. Right now depending on Beckett's injury the best we can hope for is we go into the Post Season (if we even get there) with two reliable starters, and then just hope our line up can score a bunch of runs the next few games.

What it seems we are looking at is the expectation for Beckett and Lester to basically be as perfect as they can be, and line up to chip in with a few runs. Which also means Beckett and Lester must win all their games.

I'm not giving up but I am not happy about our chances to even get to the ACLS if that is how Tito and the FO are thinking!! Time to talk about some Boston pride here!!!!!!!!!!

Since as far as I am concerned baseball comes in a pitiful 4th behind football, hockey and baseketball it's easy for me to bail out. AGON caught looking at a 3rd stike from Mariano with the bases jammed at Fewnay Park (instead of at least fouling it off) did it for me. I never let a wife, employer, neighbor or acquaintence give me a bad day and I'll be damnned if a baseball team is going to put a cloud over my head. I'm done with the the Sox. I'll wait for the Bruins to get excited. Sox will have to settle for the wildcard and steal one from the Yanks at the Stadium if they survive Texas. And MAYBE then I will turn in and see what's going on. Maybe! Posted by fenwayjack

If baseball is a pitiful 4th, then why do you call yourself fenwayjack? You'll be back as soon as the Sox go on a winning streak, and needling Yankee fans again .