We are planning to do our first Y3P walk on 20 July, we have the OL2map, a guidebook and the printed guide from mac.hawk (ta very much). Do we need to be able to use a compass with the map or the fact we have the other items and will be doing the walk on probably a popular day, is the use of a compass less of an issue?

Its less of an issue right up to the point you get lost. You may find its a clear day, and you can always see people. But if the weather closes in and you need to find your own way, or a quick way off high ground then its a good idea to at least know the basics.
That said, you don't need to be Ray Mears. Read a bit about it and have a bit of a practice before you go.

A compass is only any good if you know how to use it and be able to relate it to a position (or projected position) on a map. Personally, whilst I have a compass I have never used it in 20 years of hiking, have never felt the need to use it and in my opinion it's far more important to be able to read the map and be able to recognise features on it in the (very) unlikely event you get lost. To be honest, if you avoid 'The Bog' and take the new surfaced route over Whitber/Sell Gill hills it's very difficult to imagine just where you can get lost. 'The Guide' and map will get you round fine.

We got lost today coming off Ingleborough in thick cloud and driving rain. we wanted the Horton path but ended up going down to Clapham, the guy at the cafe there gave us a lift back to our car at Chapel le Dale but he says it happens a lot. Will take a look at the map OS2 that I left in my car !!!!! but for those who know the hill well are the exits for these paths close to each other still not sure where we went wrong !!!!!!!!!

The exits are roughly within less than 100 yards of each other and I'd (obviously) agree with Robmed56 (and I do cover this in 'The Guide').

However, advice, whether you want to take it or not, as follows .....

As you summit the Ingleborough plateau and head for the trig point/+windbreak shelter everyone in the party should take note of your location, the pile of stones etc.

1. If anyone in the party owns a GPS simply look to the co-ordinates on the data sheet as supplied with 'The Guide' and you should be able to reach the trig and return to the descent point. You might wander about a bit but you should be able to get there and back.

2. If the weather/visibility is that bad and you're really concerned about finding the route back down to Horton, simply summit the plateau, ignore reaching the trig point, and return back down the stepping to take the path down into Horton. You'll have missed (no pun intended) about 400 yards of walking in total but will avoid getting lost.

3. If without GPS when you reach the trig point you should be able to see the +windbreak shelter (if you can't see the +windbreak shelter from the trig point - A. why are you up here & B. Get off by any means possible!). So stand at the trig point and make sure the windbreak shelter is to your left. From here you have two options, either head towards the windbreak shelter and pass it on your left until you reach the lip/edge of the summit plateau then turn right and follow the lip/edge along the plateau until you reach the pile of stones indicating the exit.

Alternatively, and OK this isn't exactly precise, but if you stand with the trig point directly at your back (the flush bracket of the pillar - it's a small rectangular metal plate near the bottom of the pillar with OS BM S5619 indented on it - should be at your back) and imagine you're at the center of a horizontal clock, the +windbreak shelter (and large pile of stones) to your left should be at about 9.15 o'clock-ish (the hour hand), the direction you need to aim for is something around 11.30 o'clock, and you should reach a point where the descent to Horton/Chapel le Dale is available. If in doubt aim more 11-ish and when you reach the lip/edge of the summit plateau turn right and follow it to reach the descent point.

The route down to Clapham is more 1 o'clock-ish

4. Someone pre-walk to summit Ingleborough and view all the exits (and maybe photo from the summit and make them available), there are 3 main ones - up/down from Ingleton, Clapham & Chapel le Dale/Horton so they will know if they're on the wrong route.

Finally, I appreciate that there are the remains of Iron Age dwellings on the summit and therefore there's historical value to that but is it really unreasonable to hope the National Park authority couldn't put some sort of waymaking at least at the main exits to help people find the right route off the summit plateau in rubbish weather. A direction indicator to sit on top of the trig or at the windbreak shelter would also be very useful in lousy weather.

Last edited by mac.hawk on 22 Nov 2013, 22:42, edited 1 time in total.