I would hope that Mayhew realizes that if he signs Avril to a big deal he would be signing his own ticket out of Detroit. That much money in Avril would hamstring him, he wouldn't be able to do much of anything with the rest of the defense. The Avril issue is the problem with building the Dline from the inside out, the DTs have made Avril sit on that line of is he just good or is he actually a playmaker. Minny had the same problem way back, but they would just let their guys walk and fizz out somewhere else. I like the way the Giants built their Dline from the outside with DEs that are great pass rushers and can move inside on obvious passing downs. Even mediocre DEs cost too much damn money to have so much money already tied into the DTs. Mayhews best bet is to just use draft picks for the DEs and when they produce move them then reload. The lions shouldn't need great DEs when their DTs draw so much attention and have so much depth.

At the minimum its clear that Avril is a better player than KVB, Willie Young, and Lawrence Jackson so if you are going to let Avril leave you are losing your best DE and need to find 2 players better than the ones on the roster. Those guys showed they couldnt cut it. I dont think signing a good player like Avril hamstrings the team so long as other aspects of the team are not ignored like they were this past season. If Avril comes back on a 4 or 5 year deal it can be backloaded, incentivized, etc so that his salary cap number for 2013 is lower than the $10.6 he had this past season. They ll restructure Stafford and that ll lower his cap number by sevaral million as well. Corey Williams at $5milliion/season is probably not coming back. They could restructure Suh to lower cap number, etc.

The point is Avril is a guy that gets to the QB and forces turnovers, he is exactly the type of guy Mayhew claims to be looking for. The NFL salary cap can be manipulated by any number of methods though eventually it ll come back with dead money at some point. Mayhew will have to spend on guys like Avril and Houston - young productive players until some of his draft picks start panning out. WJB calls this "kicking the can down the road" but Mayhew has to do it this season. He cant afford to stand pat this season and start KVB on one side and Willie Young on the other and let Bentley and Jonte Green start at corner because he s worried about future cap problems. Mayhew, Schwartz, Cunningham, Linehan they re in this together and another disaster season will lose them all their jobs. You have to look at the situation from the perspective of the people making the decisions.

Well if your saying Mayhew is only looking at saving his job then the future of the team his smartest move would be to ignore the defense and spend virtually everything on offense. If the offense can put up top 5 pts they have a better chance to put up a decent season than by half assing the defense. The back seven is devoid of playmakers and now with KVB showing he's got nothing left the Dline isn't as strong either. Mayhew just doesn't have enough resources to fix the defense in one offseason. Mayhew should just look to bring in more young athletic guys on defense as cheap as possible, resign Avril and hope the offense scores enough to make up for the poor defense.

I agree, I dont think a one year plan will work unless some of the lesser known players really emerge. The teams on the schedule also look tough. Im not convinced they can be better than anyone else in the division particularly if the Bears hire a better coach than Lovie. Still I think Mayhew will do his best to try and make it work

I would hope that Mayhew realizes that if he signs Avril to a big deal he would be signing his own ticket out of Detroit. That much money in Avril would hamstring him, he wouldn't be able to do much of anything with the rest of the defense. The Avril issue is the problem with building the Dline from the inside out, the DTs have made Avril sit on that line of is he just good or is he actually a playmaker. Minny had the same problem way back, but they would just let their guys walk and fizz out somewhere else. I like the way the Giants built their Dline from the outside with DEs that are great pass rushers and can move inside on obvious passing downs. Even mediocre DEs cost too much damn money to have so much money already tied into the DTs. Mayhews best bet is to just use draft picks for the DEs and when they produce move them then reload. The lions shouldn't need great DEs when their DTs draw so much attention and have so much depth.

At the minimum its clear that Avril is a better player than KVB, Willie Young, and Lawrence Jackson so if you are going to let Avril leave you are losing your best DE and need to find 2 players better than the ones on the roster. Those guys showed they couldnt cut it. I dont think signing a good player like Avril hamstrings the team so long as other aspects of the team are not ignored like they were this past season. If Avril comes back on a 4 or 5 year deal it can be backloaded, incentivized, etc so that his salary cap number for 2013 is lower than the $10.6 he had this past season. They ll restructure Stafford and that ll lower his cap number by sevaral million as well. Corey Williams at $5milliion/season is probably not coming back. They could restructure Suh to lower cap number, etc.

The point is Avril is a guy that gets to the QB and forces turnovers, he is exactly the type of guy Mayhew claims to be looking for. The NFL salary cap can be manipulated by any number of methods though eventually it ll come back with dead money at some point. Mayhew will have to spend on guys like Avril and Houston - young productive players until some of his draft picks start panning out. WJB calls this "kicking the can down the road" but Mayhew has to do it this season. He cant afford to stand pat this season and start KVB on one side and Willie Young on the other and let Bentley and Jonte Green start at corner because he s worried about future cap problems. Mayhew, Schwartz, Cunningham, Linehan they re in this together and another disaster season will lose them all their jobs. You have to look at the situation from the perspective of the people making the decisions.

Well if your saying Mayhew is only looking at saving his job then the future of the team his smartest move would be to ignore the defense and spend virtually everything on offense. If the offense can put up top 5 pts they have a better chance to put up a decent season than by half assing the defense. The back seven is devoid of playmakers and now with KVB showing he's got nothing left the Dline isn't as strong either. Mayhew just doesn't have enough resources to fix the defense in one offseason. Mayhew should just look to bring in more young athletic guys on defense as cheap as possible, resign Avril and hope the offense scores enough to make up for the poor defense.

I agree, I dont think a one year plan will work unless some of the lesser known players really emerge. The teams on the schedule also look tough. Im not convinced they can be better than anyone else in the division particularly if the Bears hire a better coach than Lovie. Still I think Mayhew will do his best to try and make it work

I think the division may be an advantage next year. The Vikings needed a record year from AP and Ponder played mistake free early in the season for them, so they are very likely to fall off again next season. The Bears defense is not going to play like they did for Lovie for any other coach and without a top defense Cutler's not going to have anyone to bail him out when he gets frustrated. Green Bay will probably be better, but overall the division may be easier.

January 7th, 2013, 9:42 am

wjb21ndtown

Re: Off-Season Moves

rao wrote:

I think the division may be an advantage next year. The Vikings needed a record year from AP and Ponder played mistake free early in the season for them, so they are very likely to fall off again next season. The Bears defense is not going to play like they did for Lovie for any other coach and without a top defense Cutler's not going to have anyone to bail him out when he gets frustrated. Green Bay will probably be better, but overall the division may be easier.

I think you're discounting the value of Minny's D, the fact that they'll be bringing back virtually all of their important players, and they'll be adding pieces in the draft/FA. I expect Minny to be a much more complete/solid team next year, and that's something that's going to be virtually impossible for us to accomplish in one offseason. Last year was the year for us to rebuild and look complete, but we did nothing. Mayhew is garbage.

That said, if we do take a one year approach, not only will it not work, but it will set this team back 3-5 years, which is why I think Mayhew should be gone now.

9 out of the 10 worst teams in the NFL fired either their GM or HC. The only team that did neither, the Detroit Lions. Chew on that one for a bit...

January 7th, 2013, 6:06 pm

The Legend

Off. Coordinator – Joe Lombardi

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 4080Location: WSU

Re: Off-Season Moves

wjb21ndtown wrote:

rao wrote:

I think the division may be an advantage next year. The Vikings needed a record year from AP and Ponder played mistake free early in the season for them, so they are very likely to fall off again next season. The Bears defense is not going to play like they did for Lovie for any other coach and without a top defense Cutler's not going to have anyone to bail him out when he gets frustrated. Green Bay will probably be better, but overall the division may be easier.

I think you're discounting the value of Minny's D, the fact that they'll be bringing back virtually all of their important players, and they'll be adding pieces in the draft/FA. I expect Minny to be a much more complete/solid team next year, and that's something that's going to be virtually impossible for us to accomplish in one offseason. Last year was the year for us to rebuild and look complete, but we did nothing. Mayhew is garbage.

That said, if we do take a one year approach, not only will it not work, but it will set this team back 3-5 years, which is why I think Mayhew should be gone now.

9 out of the 10 worst teams in the NFL fired either their GM or HC. The only team that did neither, the Detroit Lions. Chew on that one for a bit...

100% agree with you. The Lions will make a lot of committments to players this offseason so if they mess it up bc they have a one year rather than 2-3 year approach they are going to create a mess for themselves that ll be much harder to create next year. THe Bears beat the Lions twice, the Cardinals destroyed us and they both cleaned house

I think the division may be an advantage next year. The Vikings needed a record year from AP and Ponder played mistake free early in the season for them, so they are very likely to fall off again next season. The Bears defense is not going to play like they did for Lovie for any other coach and without a top defense Cutler's not going to have anyone to bail him out when he gets frustrated. Green Bay will probably be better, but overall the division may be easier.

I think you're discounting the value of Minny's D, the fact that they'll be bringing back virtually all of their important players, and they'll be adding pieces in the draft/FA. I expect Minny to be a much more complete/solid team next year, and that's something that's going to be virtually impossible for us to accomplish in one offseason. Last year was the year for us to rebuild and look complete, but we did nothing. Mayhew is garbage.

That said, if we do take a one year approach, not only will it not work, but it will set this team back 3-5 years, which is why I think Mayhew should be gone now.

9 out of the 10 worst teams in the NFL fired either their GM or HC. The only team that did neither, the Detroit Lions. Chew on that one for a bit...

100% agree with you. The Lions will make a lot of committments to players this offseason so if they mess it up bc they have a one year rather than 2-3 year approach they are going to create a mess for themselves that ll be much harder to create next year. THe Bears beat the Lions twice, the Cardinals destroyed us and they both cleaned house

I agree the one year approach is going to screw the team, but that seems to be what people think Mayhew will do. I wish he were gone this year along with Schwartz, but that isn't going to happen and even worse is no one that matters got their walking papers. I would have liked to see the Lions pick up Heckert, he did a great job in Cleavland getting a bunch of young guys that could contribute. He was also a personnel and scouting guy before he became a GM.

I think the division may be an advantage next year. The Vikings needed a record year from AP and Ponder played mistake free early in the season for them, so they are very likely to fall off again next season. The Bears defense is not going to play like they did for Lovie for any other coach and without a top defense Cutler's not going to have anyone to bail him out when he gets frustrated. Green Bay will probably be better, but overall the division may be easier.

I think you're discounting the value of Minny's D, the fact that they'll be bringing back virtually all of their important players, and they'll be adding pieces in the draft/FA. I expect Minny to be a much more complete/solid team next year, and that's something that's going to be virtually impossible for us to accomplish in one offseason. Last year was the year for us to rebuild and look complete, but we did nothing. Mayhew is garbage.

That said, if we do take a one year approach, not only will it not work, but it will set this team back 3-5 years, which is why I think Mayhew should be gone now.

9 out of the 10 worst teams in the NFL fired either their GM or HC. The only team that did neither, the Detroit Lions. Chew on that one for a bit...

So the Lions are the only ones with a brain.

January 7th, 2013, 9:12 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Off-Season Moves

BillySims wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

rao wrote:

I think the division may be an advantage next year. The Vikings needed a record year from AP and Ponder played mistake free early in the season for them, so they are very likely to fall off again next season. The Bears defense is not going to play like they did for Lovie for any other coach and without a top defense Cutler's not going to have anyone to bail him out when he gets frustrated. Green Bay will probably be better, but overall the division may be easier.

I think you're discounting the value of Minny's D, the fact that they'll be bringing back virtually all of their important players, and they'll be adding pieces in the draft/FA. I expect Minny to be a much more complete/solid team next year, and that's something that's going to be virtually impossible for us to accomplish in one offseason. Last year was the year for us to rebuild and look complete, but we did nothing. Mayhew is garbage.

That said, if we do take a one year approach, not only will it not work, but it will set this team back 3-5 years, which is why I think Mayhew should be gone now.

9 out of the 10 worst teams in the NFL fired either their GM or HC. The only team that did neither, the Detroit Lions. Chew on that one for a bit...

So the Lions are the only ones with a brain.

Riiiggghhhtttt... Because we are the model of excellence in the NFL, because our strategy has worked for the last two decades

Hensley ESPN.com's Jamison Hensley writes about all things AFC North in his division blog.

• Blog network: NFL Nation

Kindle was the 43rd overall pick in the 2010 draft but spent his entire rookie season on the reserve/non-football injury list after fracturing his skull while falling down a flight of stairs.

He played in one game last year and one game this season.

"It was kind of mutually agreed upon between the two of us," coach John Harbaugh said of the move.

Harbaugh said he will continue to support Kindle, even though he's no longer a member of the Ravens.

"He and I have gotten real close. I feel some responsibility for him and really want to see him do well," Harbaugh said, according to the Baltimore Sun. "I really think he has a chance to be good in this league. I'll be there to support him and do whatever we can to help him. He's hoping for an opportunity somewhere where he can maybe take the next step."

Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

Mayhew will probably take a nice look at Kindle since he had a lot of athletic ability coming out of Texas, but a lot of weird stuff happened in his 2 years with the Ravens. Could be a nice cheap DE to throw into the rotation on passing downs.

Hensley ESPN.com's Jamison Hensley writes about all things AFC North in his division blog.

• Blog network: NFL Nation

Kindle was the 43rd overall pick in the 2010 draft but spent his entire rookie season on the reserve/non-football injury list after fracturing his skull while falling down a flight of stairs.

He played in one game last year and one game this season.

"It was kind of mutually agreed upon between the two of us," coach John Harbaugh said of the move.

Harbaugh said he will continue to support Kindle, even though he's no longer a member of the Ravens.

"He and I have gotten real close. I feel some responsibility for him and really want to see him do well," Harbaugh said, according to the Baltimore Sun. "I really think he has a chance to be good in this league. I'll be there to support him and do whatever we can to help him. He's hoping for an opportunity somewhere where he can maybe take the next step."

Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

Mayhew will probably take a nice look at Kindle since he had a lot of athletic ability coming out of Texas, but a lot of weird stuff happened in his 2 years with the Ravens. Could be a nice cheap DE to throw into the rotation on passing downs.

I'd love to look at players like this. I wish we would have looked at Vernon Gholson when he didn't work out with his prior team. He didn't seem to fit for scheme, and IMO that's better than Kindle, who doesn't seem to fit for "character" reasons. Teams like NE or NYG or SF and some others can take a non-character guy and not have an issues with him, I don't think we're in that same category. I'm not saying steer clear, and he may be a "last resort," but someone doesn't "fall down the stairs" and fracture their skull on a slip and fall... I mean, it can happen, I'm just betting that he had some assistance, or his skull was fractured before he fell, if you know what I mean...

If I remember correctly the Lions did give Gholston a workout last season. With that said I was on here when he was still a Jet the Lions should look at him as option. The problem is the Jets misused him as a ROLB and he just seemed to give up. Now he's just damaged goods.

January 8th, 2013, 6:05 pm

The Legend

Off. Coordinator – Joe Lombardi

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 4080Location: WSU

Re: Off-Season Moves

Kindle had a massive head injury. he s lucky to even have played in an nfl game after that. what were his off the field problems

Kindle had a massive head injury. he s lucky to even have played in an nfl game after that. what were his off the field problems

He had two DWIs, one in Texas and one in Maryland. Other than that I don't think there was anything else unless you count falling down stairs an off field problem. You could infer from his previous issues that perhaps the stair incident was also alcohol related, but I don't think that was ever stated anywhere.

January 8th, 2013, 8:22 pm

Jk14

Head Cheerleader

Joined: January 29th, 2006, 12:47 pmPosts: 36

Re: Off-Season Moves

Pass on kindle, he's a head case and likes to party more then he does play football. And if Ray Lewis couldn't get him straightened out and playing football what makes you think anyone on our team would.