Very impressive once again Boris! I don't see really anything that's odd... but if you like some thoughts... the wet look of the eyes could be a bit emphasized. Apart from that indeed a good Cameron-Diaz style recognizable.

Definitely better than a lot I've seen. Probably just the lighting angle but the indent modelling at the lips on the left side seems a lot (?) but it isnt impossible as it is ... I have to work to find criticism. Neico.

Yep, I agree about the eyes (wet look) ... a secondary light source to give a second reflection set within the eyes ... the double reflected points look Ok elsewhere. Or if there was a setting ... room or landscape reflected in the eye then place is added. Ooops never logged on .... Guest / Neico / Neil Cooke

Frederic don't make me cry. I riipped and unwrapped the whole mouth to get the corners right. Those are very worked over and there were some wrappings but now you have to point me concrete what is disturbing. I'm running out of ideas.

Very nice image Boris. Just one thing: take a look at the shoulders. There's this light edge on her right shoulder. I would try to get rid of that. The right shoulder near the neck gets a bit darker to the back. Try to achieve that same effect on the left shoulder. When the colour of the shoulder would run a bit darker towards the top edge it would run towards the background and thus give it a bit more depth. If you get what I mean. We always made jokes about it but he was right in a way. I had a teacher once in art school who said: the highest light is never on the edge of a body.

Boris wrote:Frederic don't make me cry. I riipped and unwrapped the whole mouth to get the corners right. Those are very worked over and there were some wrappings but now you have to point me concrete what is disturbing. I'm running out of ideas.

Hi Boris :

Wow ! Beautiful girl ! OK , here's where I kick you in the nuts ; Just kidding ... This girl really is awesome , I think . Personally . I feel that it might flow more freely if you were to post more often to the RS list , about your creations .

This would help all of us to follow along with such high-level modeling and rendering . I know we should already be aware of this great site of yoyrs , but we are lazy , sometimes , and a gentle nudge might not hurt .

Some mention of the mouth area ; well , if you look really closely you will see that there is a tiny hole at the mouth corner . That's fine , but because of light placement that 'hole' has a bit of specularity showing , which tends to accentuate the shape of the mouth end .

It's no big deal , of course , but becuse of our human nature , we can actually see tiny little details like this . It's crazy , but it's true .

Now , this girl has a wonderful mouth , but her teeth show no specularity . At first glance , we can not see her nice teeth , but we can see her mouth-corner .

Takes so much hard work to get anywhere near your level of quality , Boris . Every 3D artist needs a partner to gently point out the slight flaws ... I have found that asking the general public for input is like asking to be torn apart ... simply because of my attachment to the endless work I do .

I have actually gotten to the point where most/some CGI artists find themselves ... just creating for myself . If you/they/her/him/them do not like it ...
oh well ...

Posting to CGTalk : I posted there , and got nadda ! I would say that there is an incredble collection of wanna-be's there , who can merely regurgitate what they have been told by other wanna-be's ...

Perhaps I am far enough down in this reply to loose the nit-wits , the bored , the wanna-be's ...

Of course , technicallity will never suffice . There will always be flaws . To chase them is madness . The way out , in my opinion , is to simply add a personal amount of creativuty .

You can't get there from here . So why do we even try ? No answer . Best to just accept that and work toward creating our own unique works that , perhaps , show a more artistic perspective than cold absolute realism desires .

Boris wrote:Frederic don't make me cry. I riipped and unwrapped the whole mouth to get the corners right. Those are very worked over and there were some wrappings but now you have to point me concrete what is disturbing. I'm running out of ideas.

Hi Boris :

Wow ! Beautiful girl ! OK , here's where I kick you in the nuts ; Just kidding ... This girl really is awesome , I think . Personally . I feel that it might flow more freely if you were to post more often to the RS list , about your creations .

This would help all of us to follow along with such high-level modeling and rendering . I know we should already be aware of this great site of yoyrs , but we are lazy , sometimes , and a gentle nudge might not hurt .

Some mention of the mouth area ; well , if you look really closely you will see that there is a tiny hole at the mouth corner . That's fine , but because of light placement that 'hole' has a bit of specularity showing , which tends to accentuate the shape of the mouth end .

It's no big deal , of course , but becuse of our human nature , we can actually see tiny little details like this . It's crazy , but it's true .

Now , this girl has a wonderful mouth , but her teeth show no specularity . At first glance , we can not see her nice teeth , but we can see her mouth-corner .

Takes so much hard work to get anywhere near your level of quality , Boris . Every 3D artist needs a partner to gently point out the slight flaws ... I have found that asking the general public for input is like asking to be torn apart ... simply because of my attachment to the endless work I do .

I have actually gotten to the point where most/some CGI artists find themselves ... just creating for myself . If you/they/her/him/them do not like it ...
oh well ...

Posting to CGTalk : I posted there , and got nadda ! I would say that there is an incredble collection of wanna-be's there , who can merely regurgitate what they have been told by other wanna-be's ...

Perhaps I am far enough down in this reply to loose the nit-wits , the bored , the wanna-be's ...

Of course , technicallity will never suffice . There will always be flaws . To chase them is madness . The way out , in my opinion , is to simply add a personal amount of creativuty .

You can't get there from here . So why do we even try ? No answer . Best to just accept that and work toward creating our own unique works that , perhaps , show a more artistic perspective than cold absolute realism desires .

arjo wrote:Very nice image Boris. Just one thing: take a look at the shoulders. There's this light edge on her right shoulder. I would try to get rid of that. The right shoulder near the neck gets a bit darker to the back. Try to achieve that same effect on the left shoulder. When the colour of the shoulder would run a bit darker towards the top edge it would run towards the background and thus give it a bit more depth. If you get what I mean. We always made jokes about it but he was right in a way. I had a teacher once in art school who said: the highest light is never on the edge of a body.

Arjo , he already submitted the render ! Tell me , why would anyone point out flaws in a work that has already been let go ? Boris can not go back and say , "please give me this render back so that I can correct the flaw Arjo pointed out" .

I'm totally puzzled , and totally confirmed about my feelings concerning posting work for the general public to disect . It's bizzare , but even when you can't do a fuckin' thing about it , someone wil come along and point out flaws .

Boris wrote:Frederic don't make me cry. I riipped and unwrapped the whole mouth to get the corners right. Those are very worked over and there were some wrappings but now you have to point me concrete what is disturbing. I'm running out of ideas.

I am sorry, but I am not enough of an artist to actually point out what I feel is wrong with the corners of her mouth. It is like studio said - the human visual system is very well trained to recognise human faces, and espescially to notice if something is wrong with them. It takes great talent and training to actually identify the exact cause of the problem since the detection is on a very low level. I think this is one of the big differences between artists and regular people.

Please don't cry, it is an awesome model. I just had to tell you that I reacted in the same way on this image as I did on Luna. The rest of the mouth is perfect, it is just the very edges that feels off. Maybe it is the specular highlight, maybe they are too deep, unfortunately I don't know.

About posting crits after the image has been sent away: I did not at all intend to do this intentionally to hurt anyone - it is just that this time, I feel that we might have been given too little time to reflect on this image.

"He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works."

many thanks for your good input. Correct .... I should have waited for more feedback but on the other hand who knows if I would have posted the pic at all to cgtalk. But filled up with lots of spiritually drinks I got the courage to post The feedback there is also very positiv. So no bad feelings.
Nevertheless it's good to get those critics even after posting the picture. One learns of this and this is good and I'll keep those things in mind for my next works. So for example the problem with the mouthcorners. Now I understand what you mean Frederic Thanks again to you all!

As the image has been posted to "the big boys" over at cgtalk, which is done for critique from the big boys, should that make it "illegal" for us to critique it here? I think not. Anyway, here are my comments, and first of all I must just say that the corner of the mouth doesn't draw attention from me (a good thing). The straight line around thee corner area distracts me a little more though.

1) The lightning, especially the key light, seems "odd" or have a too high falloff. Her hair have lots of specular, and to some extent also her right part of the nose, or in that area, reacts to the lightning. However, the sholders seem very dark, as if there is almost no light reaching. There is a shadow there, proving this false. So I can only conclude that the falloff is too much, or lightsource is placed too close to her hair. This may only be a personal lightning preference and may be totally ignored

2) However, this one seems to me a little more "serious". Under *her* left eye (right on picture) the nose has two sharp lines or whatever that really drew my attension toward it. It is not her nose shadow, but two "other things". There has to be some artifacts there, because the shading looks very unnatural.

3) Personal preference, may be ignored. When portrayed on such a dark background, I'd be given her more backlight, especially the shoulders are now disappearing into the darkness. Probably just me...

Only thing missing at cg-talk now is a full figure render complete with lingerine and that "dark spot" (sorry, couldn't resist bringing that up again)...