cc_rider:special20: Tatsuma: Coming on a Bicycle: Why? Because they insult your invisible sky monster and the stuff he or she supposedly wrote up as a set of rules? Sure, it's a bit screwy of them, but they serve otherwise healthy food.

So it's alright to give product animals to vegans, because fark them and their stupid choices?

Very mature.

But bring vegan is a choice. Not dogma.

Strict adherence to religion is also a "choice", as is being an asshat and serving/selling someone a product that goes against their beliefs.

Agreed - it was wrong to serve a food product to people who do believe that consuming it obliterates their chance to enter heaven. I suppose strict adherence through guilt explains why so many kids get baptized before they even have a choice for themselves. Yup. Nice grey area there. Let's talk about politics now.

Big_Fat_Liar:Hahahahaha. Won't happen. How are you going to sue somebody for putting pork in hamburgers? You'd have a better chance at winning your loser lottery if it turned out to be beef or some kind of tofu crap.

... Hamburgers are called that way because they originate from Hamburg, Germany.

I'll never forget the day I bit into a hamburger and my teeth hit something hard that gave way with a crack and a sudden pop, then a warm runny liquid oozed onto my lip. I slowly removed the burger from my mouth, placed it onto the table and pulled back the top bun to reveal the broken body of a tiny Bruce Willis.

SphericalTime:FTA: <i>Suleman Nagdi, from the Federation of Muslim Organisations, said: "For people, this is touching at the very tenet of their faith, the very heart of their faith. There needs to be a criminal procedure against the company," he said. "At least it would bring some confidence into the community."</i>No, I think civil procedure would be just fine in this instance. Violating the tenets of a religion really doesn't strike me as ever being a criminal matter.

farkeruk:So in which case, it might as well all be dumped, as these things hardly apply to 21st century society. We've solved the problems that God cared about through technology, therefore, God should have turned up and said "about the bacon? go right ahead now".

Oh, I'm not arguing that the dietary rules still belong, just pointing out that back in the days before science there were lots of reasons to ban pork.

Although, trichinosis, including brain eating worms, is still a problem in much of the world, due to poor sanitary conditions. There's actually been an increase in recent years due to people eating pork in Mexico while on vacation.

MorePeasPlease:I'll never forget the day I bit into a hamburger and my teeth hit something hard that gave way with a crack and a sudden pop, then a warm runny liquid oozed onto my lip. I slowly removed the burger from my mouth, placed it onto the table and pulled back the top bun to reveal the broken body of a tiny Bruce Willis.

give me doughnuts:And in response to the situation in the article: Fark 'em if they can't take a joke. If you want to keep kosher, or halal, bring your lunch from home.

Ditto for organic, vegan, gluten-free, unpasteurized, etc. etc.

Can an infidel kitchen even make halal food? Public schools can't do kosher and shouldn't even try--the past history of every implement and surface in the kitchen would be important, the re-koshering can only be done by an observant jew, and lastly, there's the whole hornet's nest of which kosher authorities different jews recognize. Far better to just say "The cafeteria is treyf" and be done with it. Is halal any better?

nekom:NostroZ: At least it's not Chinese rat-burgers (advertised as lamb).

It happens everywhere and that's why I'm very suspicious of where my food comes from.

It's a worldwide problem, and it makes you wonder what ELSE is in there. Horse meat and pork may have religious or social meaning to some, but as far as a health concern meat is meat. Neither horse nor pork will kill you. But if you aren't getting exactly what's advertised, it raises SERIOUS questions about the food supply chain in the world.

This. So much this.

Fish is even worse. Most of the fish you eat isn't what is advertised. I recall something around 3/4. (But don't take my word on it.)

berylman:I am genuinely curious about the Muslim stance on Aardvark meat because I happening to be sitting on a lot of it and have few salable recourses. Some call it ground-pig.... whatever it is actually quite tasty pan fried..

special20:cc_rider: special20: Tatsuma: Coming on a Bicycle: Why? Because they insult your invisible sky monster and the stuff he or she supposedly wrote up as a set of rules? Sure, it's a bit screwy of them, but they serve otherwise healthy food.

So it's alright to give product animals to vegans, because fark them and their stupid choices?

Very mature.

But bring vegan is a choice. Not dogma.

Strict adherence to religion is also a "choice", as is being an asshat and serving/selling someone a product that goes against their beliefs.

Agreed - it was wrong to serve a food product to people who do believe that consuming it obliterates their chance to enter heaven. I suppose strict adherence through guilt explains why so many kids get baptized before they even have a choice for themselves. Yup. Nice grey area there. Let's talk about politics now.

It doesn't work like that - not all religions are like Christianity. You don't get to 'not go to heaven' because you do something that is forbidden - you're supposed to keep yourself 'clean' and the only enforcers of it are your neighbours - the clan if you will.

iwatts:rebelyell2006: iwatts: Tatsuma: People who do these kinds of things (usually for profits) are the worst type of people.

Because the people who ate the burgers got sick? Were endangered in any way?

The lambburgers were not actually lambburgers. Which is fraud if it was intentional.

Yeah..... I get that part.

Personally, I'd reserve the "worst type of people" label for those who harm people. Such as those that knowingly serve e-coli tainted burgers. Burgers that cause no harm, other than violate some sort of Islamic or Judaic religious custom that actually predates both religions (ancient Egypt)? No. Not the "worst".

As outlandish as it may sound, some people might be allergic to pork (a very tiny number). And so they might eat the Jewish and Muslim foods (and anything else labeled pork-free) because those should be safe. They would definitely be physically harmed by eating those foods.

Just like nuts or shellfish or wheat being added to food without being mentioned in the ingredients or food name.

Tatsuma:Big_Fat_Liar: Hahahahaha. Won't happen. How are you going to sue somebody for putting pork in hamburgers? You'd have a better chance at winning your loser lottery if it turned out to be beef or some kind of tofu crap.

... Hamburgers are called that way because they originate from Hamburg, Germany.

Really? So they aren't necessarily made out of ham or hampsters, but could even be made out of beef?

legion_of_doo:I respect other traditions, though. in reality, anyway, and not necessarily on the internet. I wouldn't serve meat to a vegetarian, nor pork to a Jew or Muslim. just a respect thing.

Amazing how that concept is lost on so many farkers. I bet more than a few of those saying "It's a stupid tradition anyhow" would be up in arms had they been putting beef into black bean burgers.

It doesn't matter why they don't want to eat pork (delicious, wonderful, pork), all that matters is they don't want to eat it, they paid someone to serve a more expensive meat that didn't contain it, and that someone served pork labeled as lamb.

flondrix:give me doughnuts: And in response to the situation in the article: Fark 'em if they can't take a joke. If you want to keep kosher, or halal, bring your lunch from home.

Ditto for organic, vegan, gluten-free, unpasteurized, etc. etc.

Can an infidel kitchen even make halal food? Public schools can't do kosher and shouldn't even try--the past history of every implement and surface in the kitchen would be important, the re-koshering can only be done by an observant jew, and lastly, there's the whole hornet's nest of which kosher authorities different jews recognize. Far better to just say "The cafeteria is treyf" and be done with it. Is halal any better?

Use clean utensils and cook ware, and ensure no contamination between batches. That is about the extent of it. Treat the halal meat as if it were from a completely different animal, so ensure you wash the cook ware and don new gloves before handling it, and you should be good to go.

Dimensio:Munchkin City Coroner: Sick tag? Really? For some yummy pork getting into their lamb burgers? Did someone take a bite and yell, "Uck! This tastes like pork! I hate pork!"? No! They couldn't tell the difference and I bet they loved those burgers. I don't particularly care for the taste of lamb (a shall we say "down to earth" concern, no worries about only getting 71 virgins in magic happy place), but if it was in a hamburger and I couldn't tell the difference then no harm, no foul. Put lambs in there, sloths, carp, anchovies, orangutans, breakfast cereals, fruit bats, whatever. If there is no health risk and it tastes good then there is no problem. Just enjoy your burger.Amusing tag should have turned left at Albuquerque for this one.You are correct; fraudulently mislabeling food products deserves absolutely no legal consequence.

It's amazing how many people in this thread believe it's okay to deceive your customers as long as a profit is made.

Tatsuma:Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: So for kosher salt, does the rabbi like kill the salt in a spiritual way?

Kosher salt is called that way because it's a salt that is used for kashering meat, not because it is kosher in itself. Salt alone is kosher by default.

Dr Dreidel: I'd actually be interested to see if that holds up as a legal argument. After all, doesn't the Tanya say that EVERYTHING can be elevated to the level of "religious ceremony"?

More or less, yes. Not just the Tanya, either.

For Judaism I could seriously argue the case successfully. If you read all the halachot that go into the meal, from washing of the hands to how the meal has to be prepared to proper eating to what can be said/done during the meal and finally birkat hamazon, there are literally hundreds of pages covering this in terms of applicable halachot.

rebelyell2006:iwatts: rebelyell2006: iwatts: Tatsuma: People who do these kinds of things (usually for profits) are the worst type of people.

Because the people who ate the burgers got sick? Were endangered in any way?

The lambburgers were not actually lambburgers. Which is fraud if it was intentional.

Yeah..... I get that part.

Personally, I'd reserve the "worst type of people" label for those who harm people. Such as those that knowingly serve e-coli tainted burgers. Burgers that cause no harm, other than violate some sort of Islamic or Judaic religious custom that actually predates both religions (ancient Egypt)? No. Not the "worst".

As outlandish as it may sound, some people might be allergic to pork (a very tiny number). And so they might eat the Jewish and Muslim foods (and anything else labeled pork-free) because those should be safe. They would definitely be physically harmed by eating those foods.

Just like nuts or shellfish or wheat being added to food without being mentioned in the ingredients or food name.

It happens everywhere and that's why I'm very suspicious of where my food comes from.

It's a worldwide problem, and it makes you wonder what ELSE is in there. Horse meat and pork may have religious or social meaning to some, but as far as a health concern meat is meat. Neither horse nor pork will kill you. But if you aren't getting exactly what's advertised, it raises SERIOUS questions about the food supply chain in the world.

This. So much this.

Fish is even worse. Most of the fish you eat isn't what is advertised. I recall something around 3/4. (But don't take my word on it.)

Well, with fish you also have to consider where it's from, even if it is the exact fish you think you're buying, because some areas have so much heavy metal contamination that certain seafood is considered unsafe. For instance, the PA Fish & Game commission pamphlet recommends eating only so much catfish out of the Monongahela river, I don't recall the exact amount, and that pregnant women should avoid it entirely. That's why I only eat farm raised catfish.

Tatsuma:KiltedBastich: No real reason it couldn't be both. I could easily see a narrow-minded real 'Murican getting his jollies knowing he was boosting his bottom line and sticking it to the Mooslins at the same time.

... you know you're obsessed when you blame the Tea Party for something that happened in England.

Stone Meadow:Never ascribe to obsession that which can be explained by mere stupidity.

Missed the follow up comment, didn't you? Good reading comprehension there. Let me help you folks out with that.

KiltedBastich:To clarify, yes, I know this is the UK. This was presented as a hypothetical.

Do you enjoy knowing you are entirely predictable? How's that working out for you?

As far as I know, there is no punishment for violating the rules on how to get dressed - think of them more as "preferences". He presents the "god-approved" way, but that doesn't mean your way is wrong (unless you put the pants on your head). Judaism has tolerance for ranges of opinion (certain restrictions apply).

DeathCipris:That's...troubling that people were/are that inept they can't figure out simple tasks without divine instruction.

Because until the 17th Century (when the Shulchan Aruch was written - it's the book the MB was based on), no Jews wore clothing? Having a standard - any standard - creates the idea that doing something mundane (like getting dressed) connects you to the larger group, or to the culture, or to god.

Maybe it's about control or superstition, but I always figured it was more of a "fundamentals" thing. Julio Franco has a fundamentally weird batting stance, but he made a 20-year MLB career using it, so...

RottNDude:Ah yes, religious dietary restrictions, a tenet of yore that has absolutely no basis in the real world...

In fairness, the dietary restrictions were put there for a reason - at a time when it wasn't understood that if you simply cooked something, the parasites/etc get killed. The religious leaders did it for the good of their people at the time, they just don't make sense at a time when we can easily prepare things properly.

I would assume that Halal meat is sold at a premium price. Adulterating the product with a cheaper type of meat is fraudulent.All religion/voodoo/superstition aside, this is, at its core, a case of fraud.

nekom:It's a worldwide problem, and it makes you wonder what ELSE is in there. Horse meat and pork may have religious or social meaning to some, but as far as a health concern meat is meat. Neither horse nor pork will kill you. But if you aren't getting exactly what's advertised, it raises SERIOUS questions about the food supply chain in the world.

Where horse meat is illegal (wasn't it illegal in the USA until a couple years ago?) it is a certainty that any slaughterhouse or butcher shop processing it is not undergoing regular government inspections.

Dr Dreidel:DeathCipris: Out of curiosity, why is that level of detail necessary for such a mundane routine in religious doctrine? It had to serve a purpose at some point I assume.

I have asked that question many times. The closest thing to a satisfactory answer I've ever gotten was that there has to be SOME way of doing things - some people like the dopamine rush of "doing god's will", so giving them the "approved" method satisfies that need.

It's not a great answer, but for the devout, no guidance would throw a null pointer error.

My theory is that there's a certain amount of religious one-upmanship going on. As one of the religions with the longest history(and a tradition of lawyerism) , Judaism has collected more of it. Roughly speaking, by following more 'rules' they prove themselves more holy/worthy of redemtion than their peers, so their peers have to come up with more rules, etc...

JustGetItRight:Amazing how that concept is lost on so many farkers. I bet more than a few of those saying "It's a stupid tradition anyhow" would be up in arms had they been putting beef into black bean burgers.

It doesn't matter why they don't want to eat pork (delicious, wonderful, pork), all that matters is they don't want to eat it, they paid someone to serve a more expensive meat that didn't contain it, and that someone served pork labeled as lamb.

That's theft by deception and it is criminal.

I'd like to think that someone who ordered black bean burgers might be able to tell the difference.

MorePeasPlease:I'll never forget the day I bit into a hamburger and my teeth hit something hard that gave way with a crack and a sudden pop, then a warm runny liquid oozed onto my lip. I slowly removed the burger from my mouth, placed it onto the table and pulled back the top bun to reveal the broken body of a tiny Bruce Willis.

I'm sure I'm supposed to get something from this. Should I be drinking?

fmk040:Dr Dreidel: Tatsuma: rev. dave: but unless it is related to religious ceremony,

For both Muslim and Jews, eating a meal is a religious ceremony

I'd actually be interested to see if that holds up as a legal argument. After all, doesn't the Tanya say that EVERYTHING can be elevated to the level of "religious ceremony"?

There is ceremony (or really, observance - "grace") at every meal, yeah, but it's kind of a stretch to call handwashing and birkat hamazon (grace before/after meals) a ceremony. Friday/Saturday/holiday meals are a different beast (because of the tradition to specifically have 3 meals, the pomp of kiddush, etc).

// do Muslims have b'dieved (accidental transgression) clauses?

Yeah, we do.Quran 6:54: "Peace be on you!Your Lord had inscribed for Himself (the rule of) Mercy.Verily if any of you did evil in ignorance,and thereafter repented and amended (his conduct),Lo! He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

I'd actually be interested to see if that holds up as a legal argument. After all, doesn't the Tanya say that EVERYTHING can be elevated to the level of "religious ceremony"?

There is ceremony (or really, observance - "grace") at every meal, yeah, but it's kind of a stretch to call handwashing and birkat hamazon (grace before/after meals) a ceremony. Friday/Saturday/holiday meals are a different beast (because of the tradition to specifically have 3 meals, the pomp of kiddush, etc).

// do Muslims have b'dieved (accidental transgression) clauses?

Yeah, we do.Quran 6:54: "Peace be on you!Your Lord had inscribed for Himself (the rule of) Mercy.Verily if any of you did evil in ignorance,and thereafter repented and amended (his conduct),Lo! He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."