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Topic: Armenian lessons? (Read 18460 times)

I want to see if there is anyone who would be interested in learning Armenian here at OCnet. In other words, if we were to start a thread on learning Armenian, would anyone be interested? The Armenian taught could be Western, Eastern, or Classical, depending on interest and the availability of teachers (right now we have someone who has expressed interest in teaching any of those.)

If we started a thread on learning Armenian, would people want it to be a place where someone who is learning it elsewhere could ask questions, or would people want actual lessons?

I would be willing to help people with questions as they come up. I speak Western Armenian, but can help you with Eastern or Classical (both of which I have some knowledge through osmosis and listening). If you can speak modern Armenian, you can recognize actually a large amount of Classical imo.

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

Btw, Eastern Armenian might be the language of the modern state, but it is spoken by a minority of Armenians.

Today Eastern Armenian is spoken by the majority of Armenians, and one can find more literature in Eastern than Western Armenian. Eastern Armenian makes its way today also in the United States and Europe through immigrants from Armenia, Iran and Russia. Also, today's largest Armenian community outside Armenia is the community of Russia where almost only Eastern Armenians live. Some TV channels of Armenia broadcast almost everywhere in the world where Armenians live because of which Eastern Armenian more and more spreads. If you go to Google translator, the only Armenian listed there is the Eastern Armenian. On the Internet the majority of Armenian websites are again in Eastern Armenian. So, I don't know why you decided that this language is spoken by a minority.

So, the state of Western Armenian is really not good today, unfortunately. It is still good only in Syria and Lebanon. Most of Western Armenians, being raised in non-Armenian societies and having non-Armenian education know their language not well and speak and write with both grammatical and orthographic errors, sometimes even mixing Eastern Armenian with their mother tongue. If you knew Armenian well, you could see this phenomenon also in the other, Armenian language thread on this website.

On this website most of Armenians are Western Armenians, so here, the "Easterners" are a minority, that's true .

Our very own VasTearn has agreed to do Classical Armenian lessons for everyone who is interested in learning. Instead of doing it here, however, she wants to do it in a separate place so that there are less distractions. So just follow that link to start.

Our very own VasTearn has agreed to do Classical Armenian lessons for everyone who is interested in learning. Instead of doing it here, however, she wants to do it in a separate place so that there are less distractions. So just follow that link to start.

Looks great!! I'll work through this over the weekend.

Many thanks.

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"I don't think I've ever eaten anything Armenian I didn't like. I even drink my non-Armenian coffee out of a St Nersess Seminary coffee mug because it is better that way." --Mor Ephrem

If you know, the Soviet orthography (I call the Reformed orthography "Soviet" which is true but many people in Armenia don't like when I call it so ) they don't use the letter Ւ ւ (viun), only using Վ վ for the sound "v". Instead of Ւ ւ they have put Ու ու in the alphabet, and because the digraph և (not եւ) is widely used in Armenian, they have given it a place in the alphabet.

If you know, the Soviet orthography (I call the Reformed orthography "Soviet" which is true but many people in Armenia don't like when I call it so ) they don't use the letter Ւ ւ (viun), only using Վ վ for the sound "v". Instead of Ւ ւ they have put Ու ու in the alphabet, and because the digraph և (not եւ) is widely used in Armenian, they have given it a place in the alphabet.

Correct. Instead of writing the Mashdotsian Աստուած, they write Աստված.

Most of Western Armenians, being raised in non-Armenian societies and having non-Armenian education know their language not well and speak and write with both grammatical and orthographic errors, sometimes even mixing Western Armenian with their mother tongue.

You just described me "to a T." I take Armenian words and grammar, English words and grammar, a little Turkish, then I mix them together and what comes out is what comes out.

My mom likes growing tomatoes in her garden during the summer. Our neighbors have a cat, named Timothy the Cat (yes, we have a neighborhood pet named after a great theologian.) Timothy likes to spend time in our backyard, which is never a problem for us. He does, however, sometimes dig holes, which is not good when they are too close to my mom's tomato plants. So a while back, I was looking out a window at the backyard and saw Timothy digging a hole. «Կատուն hole մը dig կ՚ընէ,» I said to my mom, who was in the next room. I heard a heavy sigh come from my mom, and I knew it wasn't directed at the cat.

In all fairness, though, there are Eastern Armenians who mix Russian with their Armenian. I run my church's bookstore, and when someone from Armenia buys a cross and wants a chain for it, they ask for a ցեփ. I don't even think they know the word շղթայ. And then their word for ice cream is մոլոժնի, not պաղպաղակ. So I guess everyone does it to an extent. The American Western Armenians are probably the worst, though.

Speaking of Timothy the Cat (the theologian, not the pet,) I have heard more than once that some of his writings survive today only in Classical Armenian and that they have yet to be translated into any modern language. Is this true? Have you ever heard of any plans to start translating his work? It would be so edifying to have his work in a modern language, not only Modern Armenian, but even English, so that people all over the world can read his work. Are there any rumors about this ever happening?

Is there any way to hear the letters pronounced as they are presented in Lesson 1? Would this be something to be added in the future?

Are there any websites that could help me hear how Grabar is spoken?

I do not learn well by reading; for me I have to work with the subject matter and hopefully solve problems with it. Can my needs be met somehow?

No one "speaks" Grabar. In fact no one has heard it as it was truly spoken for about the past millenium. There are hunches as to what it sounded like, but no one can say for sure.

Today, we read Grabar with the Modern Armenian phonology, either Western or Eastern.

Yes, it is clear from the intro that Grabar is not a language that individuals speak to one another. However, clearly the letters form some sort of sound that is used.

Are there any websites that can help me 'hear' this unspoken language then, that will start at a basic level so I can get the connection between the sounds and rhythms of the language? Examing youtube videos of Armenian liturgies are not all that helpful since the language spoken is much too fast for me to make the connections I need to make at this stage.

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"As the sparrow flees from a hawk, so the man seeking humility flees from an argument". St John Climacus

I would suggest that you find any recording of people speaking Armenian, but particularly sermons as the priests are more likely to pronounce the words as they should be pronounced. Get a feel for the sound of the language at first, and try to pronounce the letters to the best of your ability. You will be pronouncing Grabar as Modern Armenian, which is how the Church does it. I don't think there is any audio of people trying to recreate what it originally sounded like, but maybe others can point you in a different direction.

The above link has the alphabet, and if you click on the letters, a guy's voice actually pronounces the sounds they make. It's the Eastern Armenian pronunciation, which actually is closer to the original Grabar (Գրաբար.)

Grabar, by the way is really pronounced "Gurabar." There is a little "u" sound there, like in the word "but." Also, Armenian words tend to have the accent on the last syllable. So it would be "GuraBAR."

Is there any way to hear the letters pronounced as they are presented in Lesson 1? Would this be something to be added in the future?

Are there any websites that could help me hear how Grabar is spoken?

I do not learn well by reading; for me I have to work with the subject matter and hopefully solve problems with it. Can my needs be met somehow?

Dear Fr Chris

Please, if there are suggestions etc concerning the lessons, feel free telling all of it in the comments field on the blog site, so I can make changes.

You may hear how the letters are pronounced also at this website - http://www.matenadaran.am/v2_1/Just click on the letter you need, an additional window will open. Then in the upper part of the window you'll see the letter, its name (written in Armenian though) and a word beginning with that letter. Click on that part of the window and you'll hear all of it. They have put some music there though, ugly and noisy at times. You can switch it off at the bottom right corner. You'll see that music small icon there to click on it and switch it off.

Also, at the website of St Nersess Seminary, you can download, for example, the first recording of this page, a proclamation - http://www.stnersess.edu/classroom/sml/daily/arevakal/index.phpIt is called "EE na orhnestseen". Hear it. Though Fr Daniel who reads it is a Western Armenian, there are very few differences in that text between Eastern Armenian and Western Armenian pronunciations. So, hearing that you'll understand how Classical Armenian sounds. There are other proclamations too on that page. There are also songs. Well, browse in that website's recordings.

I am really enjoying the Classical Armenian blog. I will be caught up with the work in a few days.Please do continue! BTW: the link to the video of the Catholicos & Deacons doesn't seem to be working. Many thanks for making these resources available!

Is there any way to hear the letters pronounced as they are presented in Lesson 1? Would this be something to be added in the future?

Are there any websites that could help me hear how Grabar is spoken?

I do not learn well by reading; for me I have to work with the subject matter and hopefully solve problems with it. Can my needs be met somehow?

Dear Fr Chris

Please, if there are suggestions etc concerning the lessons, feel free telling all of it in the comments field on the blog site, so I can make changes.

You may hear how the letters are pronounced also at this website - http://www.matenadaran.am/v2_1/Just click on the letter you need, an additional window will open. Then in the upper part of the window you'll see the letter, its name (written in Armenian though) and a word beginning with that letter. Click on that part of the window and you'll hear all of it. They have put some music there though, ugly and noisy at times. You can switch it off at the bottom right corner. You'll see that music small icon there to click on it and switch it off.

Also, at the website of St Nersess Seminary, you can download, for example, the first recording of this page, a proclamation - http://www.stnersess.edu/classroom/sml/daily/arevakal/index.phpIt is called "EE na orhnestseen". Hear it. Though Fr Daniel who reads it is a Western Armenian, there are very few differences in that text between Eastern Armenian and Western Armenian pronunciations. So, hearing that you'll understand how Classical Armenian sounds. There are other proclamations too on that page. There are also songs. Well, browse in that website's recordings.

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

Yeah, Classical Armenian case declensions are a bit complicated. Modern is easier.

Regarding the word for God, Աստուած, fifteen hundred years ago it was pronounced with a w in the middle. I think it was something like Astowats, or Astwats (I might be getting that wrong.) Now there is no w in Armenian phonology, so everyone just says "Astvats" (Eastern Armenian/Classical Armenian) or "Asdvadz" (Western Armenian.)

The letter ւ is tricky. In Classical Armenian in the old days, it was a w. Together with ո (ու), it made a diphthong, ow. Now, w has disappeared and been replaced with the v sound. That letter, when by itself, is pronounced as v. When with ո (ու), it makes "oo." When ու comes before another vowel, however, it again makes v. That is why Աստուած is pronounced Astvats now. Confused? It's OK.

I notice that there are three lessons up. Is anyone using them? I notice that no one has left comments. I tried to leave a comment a few days back at the Western Armenian lesson site, but I had trouble. Before the comment would post, I got a question asking me for a URL. Of course I had no idea what they were talking about, so I didn't post a comment.

Is anyone else trying to post comments over there, but not able to?

Also, would audio recordings of words and how letters are pronounced be helpful?

I notice that there are three lessons up. Is anyone using them? I notice that no one has left comments. I tried to leave a comment a few days back at the Western Armenian lesson site, but I had trouble. Before the comment would post, I got a question asking me for a URL. Of course I had no idea what they were talking about, so I didn't post a comment.

Is anyone else trying to post comments over there, but not able to?

Also, would audio recordings of words and how letters are pronounced be helpful?

LOL. I'm inspired, but need patience. The Armenian alphabet is hard on my eyes, even in younger days. I haven't tried to post a comment. I think audio is always helpful.

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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

I tried to leave a comment a few days back at the Western Armenian lesson site, but I had trouble. Before the comment would post, I got a question asking me for a URL. Of course I had no idea what they were talking about, so I didn't post a comment.

Is anyone else trying to post comments over there, but not able to?

Salpy, I tried to send a comment as someone else (without being signed in) and it was OK. For example, select the profile "name/URL", write your name there or whatever you want to, don't type anything in the field of URL, it is not needful, and send your comment.

I'm still thinking how to add the audio material to the blog. When I have done this, I'll let you know.

I didn't continue the blog for Western Armenian because there was no response whatever to it, so I considered it wasn't needed and stopped adding anything.

Didn't someone post a link here where you could write in Armenian font?

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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

You may try to download and use the first keyboard and also DKD - Dar Keyboard Driver 0.1b from that page. Both drivers are created not only for Armenian, but also some other languages. And they allow the user to edit the keyboard according to their preferences.

Is there any way to hear the letters pronounced as they are presented in Lesson 1? Would this be something to be added in the future?

Are there any websites that could help me hear how Grabar is spoken?

I do not learn well by reading; for me I have to work with the subject matter and hopefully solve problems with it. Can my needs be met somehow?

You may hear how the letters are pronounced also at this website - http://www.matenadaran.am/v2_1/Just click on the letter you need, an additional window will open. Then in the upper part of the window you'll see the letter, its name (written in Armenian though) and a word beginning with that letter. Click on that part of the window and you'll hear all of it. They have put some music there though, ugly and noisy at times. You can switch it off at the bottom right corner. You'll see that music small icon there to click on it and switch it off.

Also, at the website of St Nersess Seminary, you can download, for example, the first recording of this page, a proclamation - http://www.stnersess.edu/classroom/sml/daily/arevakal/index.phpIt is called "EE na orhnestseen". Hear it. Though Fr Daniel who reads it is a Western Armenian, there are very few differences in that text between Eastern Armenian and Western Armenian pronunciations. So, hearing that you'll understand how Classical Armenian sounds. There are other proclamations too on that page. There are also songs. Well, browse in that website's recordings.