Unleash the Hounds! (Link Roundup)

There are lots of articles and essays of interest to modern Pagans out there, sometimes more than I can write about in-depth in any given week. So The Wild Hunt must unleash the hounds in order to round them all up.

A CBS affiliate in Denver reports on a Satanic couple who are claiming the theft of a “Vote for Satan” sign from their property was a hate crime. It’s a typical dog-bites-man sort of story, though I was annoyed they described the couple as people “who claim to be Satanists.” Look, if they say they are Satanists, then they are! There’s no Satanic court that needs to pass judgment on their Satanic-ness before you report them as such. I’d love to start seeing articles that call Christians “self-described” or that they “claim” to be Christian.

Jason Pitzl-Waters

I believe this advice goes best. “Listen, my advice to you: you take this money that you’ve been collecting for your parish, go get yourself a nice dress, you know? Fix
yourself up. Find some man, find some woman, that you can connect with,
even for a moment, ’cause that’s really all that life is, Sister. It’s a
series of moments. Why don’t you seize yours?”

MertvayaRuka

Am I a huge nerd because I heard this in Tommy Lee Jones’ voice and it was preceded by the sound of a neuralyzer going off?

http://www.facebook.com/kargach Rob Henderson

I always loved his assessment of “The Walrus and the Carpenter”‘s true meaning.

Are there no level headed , reasonably intelligent people left on the right ?Someone from her side of the political /religious idealogy needs to call this wacko out .Coming from the left it won’t have the same effect. Janet Mefferd needs to be put in her proper place w/ the rest of the loonies by someone on her side w/ a level head and some intelligence .I do understand free speech and will fight for it , but with it comes responcibility. A person just can’t go around spewing whatever crap they want to. With thier rights also comes the rights of others , she doesnot have the right to libel others and spread lies and half truths willy nilly without consequence .Has the entire political right and Republican party gone off the deep end to the point they can’t or won’t censure wackos spewing inaccurate and libelous crap? Can we get an organisation like the ALCU , or the SPLC to sue these fools for libel ? Someone or something needs to stop this stuff. Unfortunatly there are weak minded people out there that believe this nonsence Those like Mefferd , Limbaugh and their ilk need to be stopped . A reasonable threat of a libel prosequetion would be a good start , a detirent . Or is there a standards board for Radio and TV broadcasters we can alert to this kind of nonsence.I’m just wondering if there is a legal or regulatory way we can stop this crap. Sorry i rambled a bit , i just think there should be reprocussions for such things , this kinda of stuff pisses me off. Kilm

LeohtSceadusawol

In the olde days, we’d have just shoved her in a wicker effigy.

http://www.wildhunt.org/blog/ Jason Pitzl-Waters

No, we wouldn’t have.

LeohtSceadusawol

Obviously not. Hence the redundant e and the emote.

I suppose I could point out that my comment was to show how there is no point in taking her wilful ignorance personally beause that only panders to her viewpoint.

Damned if we do, damned if we don’t.

http://www.wildhunt.org/blog/ Jason Pitzl-Waters

I’m a tad sensitive to such jokes because I’ve had to deal with more than one troll here who though it was hilarious to consistently “joke” about killing Christians. It just makes us look bad, even if we use a winking emoticon.

LeohtSceadusawol

Fair point.

Although, just being Pagan makes us look bad to a lot of the more fundamental Christians (such as the Pope).

I will say this, though. If it looks like the rabid extremism of Christianity returns (and, in all honesty, the trends do seem to be pointing in that direction), I say that retaliation is fair. (Note – retaliation is reactive, not proactive.)

Kilmrnock

Leo, i was just ranting/venting . Altho not an easy task we Must take the high road when dealing w/ the lunatic fringe . Jason is correrct ………we cannot allow ourselves to drop to their level . We MUST be the Better Person when dealiong w/ these folks.Both Pagans and Judeo Christians have some rather nasty things in our pasts . We at least must rise above all of that , and the common nonsence , name calling etc . Show our Honor , Integrety, and Intelligence in these matters . Kilm

LeohtSceadusawol

“We at least must rise above all of that , and the common nonsence , name
calling etc . Show our Honor , Integrety, and Intelligence in these
matters .”
Not all ‘Pagan’ paths are paths of peace, though…

(I wouldn’t say I am a reconstructionist, but my biggest current influence is the Poetic Edda…)

http://twitter.com/lunamoth42 Luna

I think the only repercussions we can hope for is that she looks as bad to others as she does to us. But her audience is already her audience and I don’t think they’d be listening to her if they didn’t already hold the same views.

Charles Cosimano

Ok, the simple answer is that unless you are personally attacked, no you can’t sue for libel. And even then the odds are you would not win. Their lawyers would have you for lunch and leave the leftovers for the church supper.

http://www.magickal-media.com/ A.C. Fisher Aldag

To sue for libel, you have to prove monetary damages or other life-demeaning changes — like you lost business, weren’t hired, were denied an apartment, lost custody of kids — due to something that someone wrote about you.

Charles Cosimano

And you would have to prove that the person was saying was not only untrue, but the person knew it was untrue. An almost impossible standard.

Kilmrnock

For those who don’t know me ……………I am a Sinnsreachd / ADF Warrior and Live by a strict Honor/Conduct code . Not being a young man i remember the days when Politicians and most Newscasters had Honor, respectability.and a resonable amount of integrety. The current state of afairs turns my stomach.When i was young no one would even consider acting the way these people do now.The idea of personal integrety and responcibility still mattered, as did personal honor. There always has been political disagreement , but not to point of deadlocking our government , the idea of politicians being public servants was still the norm. After the elections these people would get down to the bussiness of running the country , not deadlocking over political difference ………….they would eventually do what was best for the American people that elected them to do so . Not what is going on nowadays . And please don’t anyone try to tell me the right is not blocking Obama Because he is Black . Racial predudice is alive and well in modern America . The political right is mostly Old , Rich , Old gaurd bigots ………….anyone one who denys this is not the sharpest knife in the drawer. And the so called Republican base , the RR and Nar types are just as bad . Altho the American mainstream press has always had a liberal slant we could depend on reasonable reporting . The advent of a completly extreme right wing press to me is an odd occurance and that they will spew all this kind of nonsence truely bothers me . What happened to simple honor and integrity in the press , this not only happens in the right wing press , but they seem more the ones that support those such as Mefferd and Limbaugh .How and why are these people allowed to do this . As a person of Honor and Integrety this stuff boggles my mind and just plain pisses me off.again sorry for rambling . Kilm

LeohtSceadusawol

What about the ‘left’?

Would you rather these people were open about their stance or were duplicitous/two faced? Personally, I prefer the honest bigot. At least you can spot them a mile off.

Kilmrnock

I personaly tend to be a centrist . My views tend to be Small l liberatarian w/ liberal leanings .I am neither left or right , one of those pesky indepandants. As a Celtic Traditionalist my views are tempered by my beliefs.My thought was someone from her own side would have more wieght in puting those like her in their proper place .Rantings/critism from the left are easily dismissed by people like Mefferd , but critique from someone well respected on the right would be much harder to ignore. My biggest problem with those like Limbaugh and Mefferd is thier spreading of half truths and outright lies into the public domain .Those of us in the Pagan and LGBTQ and jiont communities have enough of an image problem w/o having to deal w/ them as well. We are working toward tolarance and accetpance , they are working against it . Kilm

LeohtSceadusawol

I get that, but you only really mentioned one side of the house (as it were).

Also, this bit caught my eye:

“How and why are these people allowed to do this .”
Freedom of speech/expression. As much as they may be bigoted, as soon as anyone calls for their silence, they are made into victims and martyrs.

It is an impossible situation, really.

If we ignore them, we let them spread the misinformation. If we ‘challenge’ them, they prove that we are ‘against’ them.

I figure the best thing is to avoid being ‘leftist’, ‘rightist’ or even ‘centrist’ in this and merely try to get knowledge out without bias.
I’m just unsure as to how possible that actually is.

Kilmrnock

All you say is true , and i’m not sure what the best answer to this problem is . Part of what i was trying to say as a person of honor , how can anyone act this way . These people must know that most of what they are slinging is pure BS . I was also attemmpting to say that along with the right of free speech /expresion also comes some responcibility. To be truthful , honest and not libelistic in your speech. I also lament the fact that religion has come into the political arena the was it has . How the RR and Nar types have become so prevelant in modern politics . Besides having to deal w/ political issues , now our politicians have hotbutton religious issues now , that shouldn’t be there in the first place .In America religion is supposed to be a personal issue , dealth with in the home and your church ………….not in the public and governmental arenas .That is how the founders intended things to be .Not the mess we’re dealing with now . kilm

LeohtSceadusawol

“I was also attemmpting to say that along with the right of free speech /expresion also comes some responcibility.”
Whilst I agree with the sentiment, it kind of doesn’t. That’s the whole point of freedom, isn’t it?

“That is how the founders intended things to be”
Societies evolve. Not always the ‘right’ way, but change is unavoidable.

Kilmrnock

Well technically it is . my point is does her freedom of speech mean she can spread outright lies , half truths , all sorts of misinformation about 2 groups of people .i personaly have a big problem with that idea. Isn’t it applied that with rights comes responcibility. And what about our rights , to live our lives w/o having to put up with someone doing this to us . I just think Ms Mefferd and those like her should be able to do such things w/o reprocussions.Just seems odd that her rights trump the rights of the LGBTQ and Pagan communities to live w/o pure unadaltrated nonsence spread in the public domain about us . The whole thing just feels wrong to me , oh well. Kilm

LeohtSceadusawol

The ultimate ‘right’ is might, they say. Obviously that is a step too far for most societies, which means lines have to be drawn.

For me, it is about (direct) harm and stability of (immediate) society.

Does her right to be offensive out-trump their right to not be offended? I have to say yes. Not because I agree with her but because trying to prevent offence is impossible.

So long as that offence is not actually curtailing any ‘actual’ rights, I don’t see an issue.

Kilmrnock

Correction ……….Shouldn’t be able to I agree about free speech . But what she and those like her do is harmful , they are promoting predudice against 2 classes of people . To my mind free speech doesn’t cover hate speech . This type of ranting does promote discimination and hatred of us and the LGBTQ people .To anyone that has experience such things it is quite harmful . I also have a big problem w/ that church that pickets military funerals , they may be within there free speech rights, but i believe have crossed a line that should never be crossed. Kilm

Baruch Dreamstalker

Kilm, it’s philosophically sound that rights come with responsibilities. The problem with putting that into practice regarding the right of free speech is: Who is going to decide if one is living up to one’s responsibilities? The government? Letting the gov’t make that call generally leads to gov’t control of speech, as in today’s Chinese Internet for example.

Now, she can still have repercussions for what she says. Getting slammed in the Pagan blogosphere is a repercussion — not a severe one (not yet) but it means hundreds of thousands of people know who their enemy is. That can have further repercussions down the road.

LeohtSceadusawol

For me, ‘direct harm’ means physical.

I am not particularly empathetic, and am really not to worried about causing offence to people when I speak my mind.

People get offended too easily.

Fvrnite

In terms of broadcasting and other news media, honor and integrity pretty much died after the FCC revoked the Fairness Doctrine, leaving big mouths like Limbaugh open to take advantage of people’s ignorances and biases. The newspapers increasingly being bought out by media conglomerates added to the intentional low wages and high profit margins pandering to the lowest common denominator public ( rather than actually informing or educating them) chased what little honor and integrity away from their staff. Its not about truth anymore, its about the money. And the suckers love manipulative panderers like Limbaugh, Hannity and OC this idiot Janet Mefferd,

Bear in mind in radio ratings rules and the “talk show host” exploits whatever issue of the day is, twisting it to please his or her audience. Mefferd is no exception. As offensive as her spewage is, she is more a detriment to herself than anything those opposing her hate-filled rhetoric could say. Publicising her verbal sewage in places such as Media Matters exposes how pathetic she really is.

Its all about publicity and ratings and it wouldn’t surprise me that people like her do not in fact actually believes what she spouts on the air.

Baruch Dreamstalker

I seriously doubt Mefferd is going to change any minds. She’s preaching to the choir.

That “short answer would be no” article was doing fairly well until he went in the old “everyone’s looking for the same thing” schtick.

No. No, they are not. Dude needs to read some Stephen Prothero.

Sjthornton

Watched the Mari doc on youtube last Sunday – highly recommended!

Zan Fraser

Hey Jason- so many things here, demonstrating why “Unleash the Hounds” is one of my most favorite parts of The Wild Hunt: (1) it seems to me, there are two “coming-out” incidents described here, one Occultist, and one Homoerotic (“Gay”).

Truthfully, as a Manhattanite: I sort-of know Mr. Anderson Cooper, in that we work out in the same gym; it has always been my impression that he is the most self-consciously courteous, polite, gentlemanly individual, respectful of whomever comes his way-

I find it interesting that the piece above references two celebrities “coming out,” one as Gay, and one as an Occultist.

(2) As a Gay Man “out” since the early ’80s (college-level), and Gay-Circuit-Wise since the late ’80s: I appreciate your efforts (in the analysis of History) to separate Classical “Gay Culture”- of some 3000 years ago- from today’s Gay Culture (enacted between consensual adults, however “young” some of these may be);

As an Out Gay Male since the ’80s, plus a Pagan: I think that from the UTH Blurb cited above, we can discern a Movement of the current “Fundie” Populace: to equate “Out” Gayness with the Worst Excesses of “Pagan Rome” (truthfully, my impression was that Greek Culture was more into the Same-Sex relationship than the Roman, but it is Roman Culture that Christian Culture has inherited as the most diabolically “Pagan”)

(3) I have always appreciated the efforts of Pagan Culture (encountered by me, at least, since the early ’90s) to accommodate itself to its Gay (LGBTQ) members; no-where has this been more evident than in the efforts of PantheaCon and PSG to bridge the gap between Hetero-Normative Pagans, and LGBTQ Pagans (Queer Pagans, to borrow an NYC term from the early ’90s); which efforts have been scrupulously reported here, and elsewhere.

(4) It may be that we are “in” this together, as both Gays, Pagans, Gay Pagans, and Pagans Supportive of Both Gay and Pagan Rights- if the Fundie Evangelicals mean to call down “Homosexuality” as “Pagan,” and as “Pagan” leading to “Homosexual.” In which case, the willingness of Pagans to stand As One by their Gay Co-Religionists, is all the more remarkable.

(5) I want to point out two “Witch/ Occultist/ Pagan” individuals “on the scene” from the early days of Stonewall (and both referenced in Histories of the immediate Post-Stonewall movement): Leo Martello, whose experience led him to advocate Witch-Pride Movements, to invigorate the Movement as much as did Gay-Pride events; and Arthur Evans, whose book Witchcraft and the Gay Counterculture (1978) made a connection between the Western Culture Oppression of both Witches and Pagans, and Lesbians and Gays.

Furthermore, the “So You’ve Been Accused of Witchcraft” chart (derived from the Malleus M) is BRILLIANT!! My vote for best-line: “Are You Penitent?”: You feel pretty bad about the whole Dancing-With-The-Devil incident.

Daniel SnowKestral

Congrats for Anderson Cooper’s coming out! And, as well, congrats to Barny Frank on his marriage. Being out since the late 80’s? Wow, I remember how, in the 90’s, it was really hard to be “out” then, too. It seems like it is getting easier all the time, but there are still lots of hatred and bigotry out there. Much has changed in North Idaho and Eastern Washington, but I am still remiss to being out of the closet, here.

http://entdinglichung.wordpress.com Entdinglichung

it can probably be misunderstood to call the pagan religion of the Mari people (and also the pagan religions of the Udmurts, the Mordvins and the Chuvash in the same area and of the Komi further in the North which are practised by a few percent of each of these communities) “revived”, these religions changed over the last centuries and were always non-recogniced by the state up to the 1990ies but they were never dead

LeohtSceadusawol

Revived but not ressurected?

Fvrnite

The “Vote Satan” couple subject was the focus of a juvenile editorial on the Thursday, July 5th edition of the ” Arkansas Democrat-Gazette” . Titled “News from down under: When hate crime should be a good thing” . the editorial ( not signed BTW, but editor Paul Greenberg accepts responsibility for publishing the crap)