WWI Digest 1129
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Cats (was Re: Modelling Facilities)
by Shane Weier
2) Re: Cats (WW I Cats)
by "Fernando E. Lamas, M.D."
3) Re: Cats (was Re: Modelling Facilities)
by Ernest Thomas
4) Re: Hansa-Brandenburg C-1
by Joey Valenciano
5) Re: WWI digest 1124 (NASM)
by David Laws
6) Re: WWI digest 1124 (NASM)
by REwing@aol.com
7) Re: Cats (was Re: Modelling Facilities)
by Suvoroff@aol.com
8) Re: Cats (was Re: Modelling Facilities)
by "Mike Muth"
9) Re: Cats (was Re: Modelling Facilities)
by REwing@aol.com
10) Cats on Aircraft!
by Mike Dicianna
11) Re: Cats on Aircraft!
by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer)
12) Re: Cats on Aircraft!
by Mike Dicianna
13) AEG G.II (was Re: Cats on Aircraft!
by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer)
14) Re: AEG G.II (was Re: Cats on Aircraft!
by Bob Pearson
15) Re: AEG G.II (was Re: Cats on Aircraft!
by Mike Dicianna
16) Re: Cats (was Re: Modelling Facilities)
by TPTPUMPER@aol.com
17) RE: Hansa-Brandenburg C-1
by Pedro e Francisca Soares
18) Thanks !
by "Leonard Endy"
19) Re: Cats (was Re: Modelling Facilities)
by Ernest Thomas
20) Re: Cats on Aircraft!
by Joey Valenciano
21) Re: AEG G.II (was Re: Cats on Aircraft!
by Joey Valenciano
22) H-B C.I
by mbittner@juno.com
23) Fw: FS WW1 AERO MAGAZINE
by "The Bittners"
24) Re: H-B C.I
by Mike Dicianna
25) Re: Cats on Aircraft!
by Mike Fletcher
26) Hannover lozenge
by The Rayner Family
27) Re: Cats (was Re: Modelling Facilities)
by KarrArt@aol.com
28) Scanned Baby
by "Leonard Endy"
29) RE: AEG G.II (was Re: Cats on Aircraft!
by "Dr. Phillip Anz-Meador"
30) Re: Hannover lozenge
by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer)
31) RE: Hannover lozenge
by Shane Weier
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 11:07:57 +1000
From: Shane Weier
To: wwi
Subject: RE: Cats (was Re: Modelling Facilities)
Message-ID: <199807260124.LAA10480@mimmon.mim.com.au>
Bob,
>:-) Instead I'll just use this as an excuse to mention that years ago
Judy
>Robinson had a letter in OTF wondering about the sparcity of cats in
WW1
>photos (whew - got on-topic just in time).
Someone (Bob K?) mentioned the ubiquity of dogs in WW1 paintings and
photos. Surely this is the answer to the absence of cats.
> Anyway my question is has anyone done any feline marked
>aircraft
No, but the most satisfying weeks of my Army career were spent using my
markman skills and sniping rifle to conduct a cat eradication program.
God, I wish I was allowed to do it here in the city too.
Shane
(who has had quite enough of other peoples cats squeezing through the
slats into the laundry and pissing in the laundry basket, and stinking
up my spray painting area - back on topic, see)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 18:25:41 -0700
From: "Fernando E. Lamas, M.D."
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Cats (WW I Cats)
Message-ID:
At 04:33 PM 7/25/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Sorry, but I just had to point out that the majority of these posts have
>mentioned cats - I'll just use this as an excuse to mention that years ago Judy
>Robinson had a letter in OTF wondering about the sparcity of cats in WW1
>photos (whew - got on-topic just in time). This brought about the reply that
>there are some in photos and occasionally as a unit marking as well (Spa.87
>for example). Anyway my question is has anyone done any feline marked
>aircraft -
> Bob Pearson
>
Come to think of it, I have seen a Jasta Raben group pet photo that
included a pet fox and even a little, hairy pig-looking creature but I can't
recall ever seeing a WW I pet photo with a "cat" except for the lion cubs of
Lafayette Escadrille.
The Aeromaster Decals Albatros Collection #2 sheet does include the
arched black cat insignia of Lt. Lehmann of Jasta 59. I may build an
Albatros in that scheme for my daughter Patricia to go with her Pfalz.
After much begging and pleading, I just got Patricia a cat for her eighth
birthday and she just loves that damned thing. Even after it walked all
over the paint-by-number paint set she left uncovered last night and we
found multi-colored cat paw prints all over kitchen table this morning.
AARRRRGGGHHH!!!
Before I got her the cat, I impressed upon Patricia what a great
sacrifice I was making so that she could truly appreciate the gift. So, if
you ask her why her father got her a cat for her birthday, she will promptly
answer:
"Because Papi loves *me* more than he hates *cats*".
Fernando Lamas
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:29:38 -0500
From: Ernest Thomas
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Cats (was Re: Modelling Facilities)
Message-ID: <35BA8682.73CE@bellsouth.net>
Shane Weier wrote:
>
> No, but the most satisfying weeks of my Army career were spent using my
> markman skills and sniping rifle to conduct a cat eradication program.
> God, I wish I was allowed to do it here in the city too.
While I think that would be alot of fun, you would get a lot of archie
(there, I'm on topic)from the animal rights crowd. But thanks for
sharing that. I'm standing by you on this matter. Having a cat is like
having a wife, only without all the fun bits.
But dogs, while lacking a certain style, are worthwhile companions.
E.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 10:32:57 +0800
From: Joey Valenciano
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Hansa-Brandenburg C-1
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980726103257.00b3f9d8@philonline.com.ph>
>List member Peter Crow decided to introduce me to Vacs and kindly
>offered me the Wings 72 kit of the Hansa Brandenburg C1.
>
>Till now I managed to get both wings off the mega flash (as Joey call
>it) as well as the fuselage, which I believe is something to be proud
>of, being my first.
I'd cleaned up a number of wings via the traditional sanding method before
I wised up and took Bob Norgen's advice from his instruction sheets: scrape
away w/ curved X-acto blade.
Then you can sand the area smooth later when the wing is thin enough.
>Now I'd appreciate if someone would tell me (or better send me a scan)
>what the cockpit and gunner's position look like on the inside.
Do you have the FMP book? If not, I'll check it out and see if there's
anything there.
>Let me just pass one thing I've learned: the kit's wings had all the =
>scalloping nicely formed ...
Ways I'd repair wing ribs:
1) Add thin plastic strips at the wing ribs and spray w/ some tough laquer
paint to blend it in to the rib and simulate some kind of scalloping.
2) Fake it, make the rib stations lighter or darker. It works.
*********************************************************************
Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician,
joeyval@philonline.com. sitarist
Metro-Manila, Philippines
"The more you know, the more you don't know."
*********************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 13:16:56 +1000
From: David Laws
To: wwi
Subject: Re: WWI digest 1124 (NASM)
Message-ID: <35B7FCA5.6F56@webtime.com.au>
MIKE (Muth )
Lawyer Jokes !
IT'S JUST NOT FAIR IS IT
Must the innocent always swing with guilty ?
David ( Laws )
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 23:38:44 EDT
From: REwing@aol.com
To: wwi
Subject: Re: WWI digest 1124 (NASM)
Message-ID:
<< Er, thanks, I think. Remember, I'm the only one on this list who can get
Bob
and Rick off on the $100 bill counterfeiting charge;-))
Mike >>
And if you've noticed Mike, I haven't said anything bad about
lawyers!! I didn't know that Bob was going take out the metal strips of the
bill.;^} I still get a good chuckle over the experience.
"Strike a blow for justice; punch out an attorney" Lawyer friend's bumper
sticker!!!!
-Rick-
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 23:39:02 EDT
From: Suvoroff@aol.com
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Cats (was Re: Modelling Facilities)
Message-ID: <1359ccce.35baa4d7@aol.com>
I like cats.
If you don't like cats, that is of course your right.
However, "cat eradication programs" and so on are not on-topic.
Additionally, I do not think I am the only person on this list who does not
want to hear about this sort of thing.
So if you must pursue this thread, please take it off-line.
Yours,
James D. Gray
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 23:44:28 -0400
From: "Mike Muth"
To:
Subject: Re: Cats (was Re: Modelling Facilities)
Message-ID: <003501bdb847$b18341c0$2506bacc@bucky>
Ah Shane, something we agree on ;-))
Mike Muth
-----Original Message-----
From: Shane Weier
To: Multiple recipients of list
Date: Saturday, July 25, 1998 9:10 PM
Subject: RE: Cats (was Re: Modelling Facilities)
>Bob,
>
>>:-) Instead I'll just use this as an excuse to mention that years ago
>Judy
>>Robinson had a letter in OTF wondering about the sparcity of cats in
>WW1
>>photos (whew - got on-topic just in time).
>
>Someone (Bob K?) mentioned the ubiquity of dogs in WW1 paintings and
>photos. Surely this is the answer to the absence of cats.
>
>> Anyway my question is has anyone done any feline marked
>>aircraft
>
>No, but the most satisfying weeks of my Army career were spent using my
>markman skills and sniping rifle to conduct a cat eradication program.
>God, I wish I was allowed to do it here in the city too.
>
>Shane
>
>(who has had quite enough of other peoples cats squeezing through the
>slats into the laundry and pissing in the laundry basket, and stinking
>up my spray painting area - back on topic, see)
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 23:46:49 EDT
From: REwing@aol.com
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Cats (was Re: Modelling Facilities)
Message-ID: <237a12c3.35baa6aa@aol.com>
<< Anyway my question is has anyone done any feline marked
aircraft - I did my Canuck as C.705 with the diagonal striped rudder/fin and
the cat on the fuselage. >>
You're right. A lot of dogs in the photos and only the occasional lion cub or
two, but no kitties. There is an Albatros D-something that has a black cat on
the side. I've got the decals for it, but haven't built it yet.
-Rick-
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 21:22:14 +0000
From: Mike Dicianna
To: wwi
Subject: Cats on Aircraft!
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980725212214.0067ea28@proaxis.com>
Joey sent me the scans from the MvR datafile. The first thing that came up
was a AEG G.II that Manfred flew in early in the war. The fuselage marking
is a
kitty! I put the scan on my webspace...enjoy!
Have to build this one...is there a 1/72nd scale kit available of this aircraft?
I could do some searching, but if someone has one in their collection or
closet...
Mike DC
Again, many thanks to our own JoeyVal!!!!
http://www.proaxis.com/~dicianna/c01.jpg
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 21:37:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer)
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Cats on Aircraft!
Message-ID: <199807260437.VAA21488@ednet1.orednet.org>
>Joey sent me the scans from the MvR datafile. The first thing that came up
>was a AEG G.II that Manfred flew in early in the war. The fuselage marking
>is a
>kitty! I put the scan on my webspace...enjoy!
>Have to build this one...is there a 1/72nd scale kit available of this aircraft?
>I could do some searching, but if someone has one in their collection or
>closet...
Well, if you really want to do a "cat" aircraft, there are the
Nieuports and SPADs of N.87/Spa.87 which are kinda neat looking
with their "alley cat" escadrille insignia. Kits are readily
available for those aircraft.
Right of the top of my head, I can't think of any other "cats"
(as opposed to lions and tigers and the like) used on WW1 aircraft.
Cheers and all,
--
Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 22:35:24 +0000
From: Mike Dicianna
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Cats on Aircraft!
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980725223524.0069d01c@proaxis.com>
At 12:40 AM 7/26/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
>
>
>>Joey sent me the scans from the MvR datafile. The first thing that came up
>>was a AEG G.II that Manfred flew in early in the war. The fuselage marking
>>is a
>>kitty! I put the scan on my webspace...enjoy!
>
>>Have to build this one...is there a 1/72nd scale kit available of this
aircraft?
>>I could do some searching, but if someone has one in their collection or
>>closet...
>
>Well, if you really want to do a "cat" aircraft, there are the
>Nieuports and SPADs of N.87/Spa.87 which are kinda neat looking
>with their "alley cat" escadrille insignia. Kits are readily
>available for those aircraft.
>
>That is my dilema, This AEG G.II would become part of a series of MvR known
aircraft. Not being familiar with the aircraft, I noticed a datafile listed
for an AEG G.IV. Is the G.II an earlier version that could be backdated?
Mikedc
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 22:48:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer)
To: wwi
Subject: AEG G.II (was Re: Cats on Aircraft!
Message-ID: <199807260548.WAA13560@ednet1.orednet.org>
>>That is my dilema, This AEG G.II would become part of a series of MvR known
>aircraft. Not being familiar with the aircraft, I noticed a datafile listed
>for an AEG G.IV. Is the G.II an earlier version that could be backdated?
According to my references, the G.IV was "a slightly refined version
of the AEG G.I, G,II, and G.III types." (Windsock, Vol 3. No. 4)
However, no hints are given as to what the "slight refinements" are
which might be necessary to change a G.II into a G.IV or vice-versa.
Still, if the refinements are truly "slight", it should be a doable
proposition. Alas, I have no other references on either aircraft.
Cheers and all,
--
Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 23:01:24 -0700
From: Bob Pearson
To: WW1 Mailing list
Subject: Re: AEG G.II (was Re: Cats on Aircraft!
Message-ID: <06012418739342@KAIEN.COM>
Mike,
If you can wait until after the FMP Pfalz volume is done later this year,
the next one up in the series is to be on AEG. With luck I may get to
illustrate it and would then know what the differences are . . . . . . . .
sometime next spring :-)
Regards,
Bob Pearson
----------
> From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer)
> According to my references, the G.IV was "a slightly refined version
> of the AEG G.I, G,II, and G.III types." (Windsock, Vol 3. No. 4)
>
> However, no hints are given as to what the "slight refinements" are
> which might be necessary to change a G.II into a G.IV or vice-versa.
>
> Still, if the refinements are truly "slight", it should be a doable
> proposition. Alas, I have no other references on either aircraft.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 23:04:38 +0000
From: Mike Dicianna
To: wwi
Subject: Re: AEG G.II (was Re: Cats on Aircraft!
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980725230438.0069cc7c@proaxis.com>
At 01:59 AM 7/26/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Mike,
>
>If you can wait until after the FMP Pfalz volume is done later this year,
>the next one up in the series is to be on AEG. With luck I may get to
>illustrate it and would then know what the differences are . . . . . . . .
>sometime next spring :-)
>Regards,
> Bob Pearson
>
>Cool...it will take me that long to get around to doing that aircraft in
my MvR series. (If I can find one) Scratchbuild the puppy? I hope not...
Mikedc
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 04:30:43 EDT
From: TPTPUMPER@aol.com
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Cats (was Re: Modelling Facilities)
Message-ID: <16c6bd37.35bae934@aol.com>
Hi There!
In my volunteer position of cataloging the photos and negatives in the
Ferko Collection at UTDallas, I have seen thousands of WWI photos, of
aeroplanes, pilots, and so on. I have yet to see a cat as a pet, though I
have seen a pig, a goat, and innumerable dogs. (Oliver von Beaulieu-
Marconnay's dog was named Fips, for example.) I saw one photo last week of
nine pilots, accompanied by five dogs. I have seen dogs on wingtips, on
tailplanes, on pilots' laps in the 'pit, and without the pilot in the 'pit,
wearing a flight helmet. For the "cat people" on the List, sorry . . .
Have Fun!!
IRA
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 10:54:18 +0200
From: Pedro e Francisca Soares
To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'"
Subject: RE: Hansa-Brandenburg C-1
Message-ID: <01BDB883.BF784A00@fei1-p10.telepac.pt>
-----Original Message-----
From: Joey Valenciano [SMTP:joeyval@philonline.com.ph]
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 1998 4:37 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: Re: Hansa-Brandenburg C-1
I'd cleaned up a number of wings via the traditional sanding method =
before
I wised up and took Bob Norgen's advice from his instruction sheets: =
scrape
away w/ curved X-acto blade.
Then you can sand the area smooth later when the wing is thin enough.
Hi Joey
I did use the curved blade to deal with the leading edge and it worked =
fine. Still I feel more at ease using sandpaper on the trailing edge =
than to scrap away with a blade.
>Now I'd appreciate if someone would tell me (or better send me a scan)=20
>what the cockpit and gunner's position look like on the inside.
Do you have the FMP book? If not, I'll check it out and see if there's
anything there.
I don't, so if you would be willing to take the trouble and check I'd =
appreciate it a lot.
Ways I'd repair wing ribs:
1) Add thin plastic strips at the wing ribs and spray w/ some tough =
laquer
paint to blend it in to the rib and simulate some kind of scalloping.
2) Fake it, make the rib stations lighter or darker. It works.
Good tips. Thanks
Um abraco
Pedro
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 10:48:22 GMT
From: "Leonard Endy"
To: wwi
Subject: Thanks !
Message-ID: <35bc0717.1085871@legend.firstsaga.com>
My wife and I would like to thank you all for the numerous
congratulations we received on the birth of our first grandchild.
Although she suffers from computer-phobia she is constantly amazed at
the comraderie and friendly gestures that the list members make
towards each other. If there is one thing I miss being retired from
the Army it's the comraderie that existed in that line of work. This
list has sure helped to fill that void....
And the baby is doing fine. I got to hold him yesterday at the
hospital and it was fantastic.
Probably the best gift a child can give his/her parents is a
grandchild. Well, except maybe some WWI related material.
Thanks again !
Len and Margie
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 07:59:54 -0500
From: Ernest Thomas
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Cats (was Re: Modelling Facilities)
Message-ID: <35BB284A.3104@bellsouth.net>
TPTPUMPER@aol.com wrote:
I have seen thousands of WWI photos, of
> aeroplanes, pilots, and so on. I have yet to see a cat as a pet,
though I
> have seen a pig, a goat, and innumerable dogs. I have seen dogs on wingtips, on
> tailplanes, on pilots' laps in the 'pit, and without the pilot in the 'pit,
> wearing a flight helmet. For the "cat people" on the List, sorry . .
I think that settles it. Cats are just inapropriate animals to have
around the aerodrome!/%]
E.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 20:26:59 +0800
From: Joey Valenciano
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Cats on Aircraft!
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980726202659.00753f2c@philonline.com.ph>
>Well, if you really want to do a "cat" aircraft, there are the
>Nieuports and SPADs of N.87/Spa.87 ...
A question:
I've seen a profile of an SVA 1 w/ the cat insignia.
Is this a WWI or post war colour scheme?
*********************************************************************
Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician,
joeyval@philonline.com. sitarist
Metro-Manila, Philippines
"The more you know, the more you don't know."
*********************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 20:31:28 +0800
From: Joey Valenciano
To: wwi
Subject: Re: AEG G.II (was Re: Cats on Aircraft!
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980726203128.00753f2c@philonline.com.ph>
>If you can wait until after the FMP Pfalz volume is done later this year,
>the next one up in the series is to be on AEG.
Oooh, goody goody
>With luck I may get to illustrate it
Even better news. Tell them FMP people to hurry up then.
On the AEG G.II, the profile in the Richtofen Special looks as if it had a
thinner (less voluminous) fuselage than the G.IV. Maybe the wings were a
bit different too?
*********************************************************************
Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician,
joeyval@philonline.com. sitarist
Metro-Manila, Philippines
"The more you know, the more you don't know."
*********************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 11:11:42 -0500
From: mbittner@juno.com
To: wwi
Subject: H-B C.I
Message-ID: <19980726.111210.-161803.1.mbittner@juno.com>
In looking through my database, I show the following for the Hansa
Brandenburg C.I:
Publication put out of OFH in Austria
Windsock: Vol 3 No 2 (1/72nd Classic Plane review); Vol 11 No 1 (Color
plates "In Polish Service"); Vol 11 No 2 (Polish continuation); Vol 12 No
5 (1/72nd Sierra review and color plates)
WW1 Aero: No 105 (Cockpits & Instruments); 131 (structural drawing); 155
(GA drawing)
Sorry, nothing at all on the AEG G.II.
Matt Bittner
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 11:18:14 -0500
From: "The Bittners"
To:
Subject: Fw: FS WW1 AERO MAGAZINE
Message-ID: <000f01bdb8b0$ff296620$e2aabfa8@jvaughan>
>Another from r.m.s.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Shonmania
>Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
>Date: Saturday, July 25, 1998 4:59 PM
>Subject: FS WW1 AERO MAGAZINE
>
>
>>I have WW1 Aero magazine #108-153 for sale. Excellent condition,
>$60(includes
>>postage).
>>Shon Howell
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 11:12:27 +0000
From: Mike Dicianna
To: wwi
Subject: Re: H-B C.I
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980726111227.00697e14@proaxis.com>
At 12:14 PM 7/26/98 -0400, you wrote:
>In looking through my database, I show the following for the Hansa
>Brandenburg C.I:
>
>Publication put out of OFH in Austria
>Windsock: Vol 3 No 2 (1/72nd Classic Plane review); Vol 11 No 1 (Color
>plates "In Polish Service"); Vol 11 No 2 (Polish continuation); Vol 12 No
>5 (1/72nd Sierra review and color plates)
>WW1 Aero: No 105 (Cockpits & Instruments); 131 (structural drawing); 155
>(GA drawing)
>
>Sorry, nothing at all on the AEG G.II.
>
>
>Matt Bittner
>
>Thanks for checking it out!
MikeDC_____________________________________________________________________
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 12:10:09 -0700
From: Mike Fletcher
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Cats on Aircraft!
Message-ID: <35BB7F11.A6AFC722@mars.ark.com>
There was also some Curtiss JN4 Canucks with a cat marking on them...
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 12:11:51 -0700
From: The Rayner Family
To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list
Subject: Hannover lozenge
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980726121151.00711728@pop.mindspring.com>
All,
Have a birthday gift of an Eduard Hannover looming soon (sorry Matt, I had
to try braille scale). I've looked through most of the stuff in the archive
(very helpful), and found clear consensus that 5 colour lozenge was more
appropriate than the Eduard supplied 4 colour. However, I just picked up a
copy of Scale Aviation Modeller that has a good (?) article by Harry
Woodman on the Hannover CL. series. In it, he makes some strong assertions
that it is not correct to assume that 5 colour is appropriate (and I quote):
"One writer has said that the Hannover CL.IIIas (all of them) had five
colour fabric applied to the wings etc., one wonders how he can be so
certain. We now have people who can convert the description pink (as quoted
in an official report) into a precise shade by some magical process. Even
more astonishing are those who can look at a black and white photograph or
even a reproduction in a book and state categorically that the fabric is
four or five colour." (and he goes on, but you get the drift). BTW, he says
the Eduard decals are "acceptable" (if dulled down to represent fading).
Now, I'm not a fan of the colour police, but the list seemed to agree with
the five colour theory (very reasonably it seemed to me). I'm new to the
subject area (I don't have the datafile either), so what do members think
of Harry W and his comments? My reason for asking is that I ordered 5
colour lozenge from Aeromaster at the Nats, and two weeks after their
promised "few days" delivery time, they wrote to me to say they are sold
out and these decals are discontinued. I will probably go for another 5
colour, but am considering the possibility of the Eduard decals in the name
of convenience and cost.
I saw someone mention (I think) Koster had some new decals for Hannovers at
the Nats - are these braille scale, and could someone give me a source?
Also, are there any sources for Americal/Gryphon other than direct from
them?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:23:18 EDT
From: KarrArt@aol.com
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Cats (was Re: Modelling Facilities)
Message-ID: <16c7bd34.35bb8227@aol.com>
In a message dated 98-07-25 23:47:49 EDT, you write:
<<
You're right. A lot of dogs in the photos and only the occasional lion cub
or
two, but no kitties. There is an Albatros D-something that has a black cat
on
the side. I've got the decals for it, but haven't built it yet.
-Rick-
>>
best shot I've seen is a photo of a solitary cow "guarding" the Jasta 5
Alabatros line up.
Robert K.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 19:51:33 GMT
From: "Leonard Endy"
To: wwi
Subject: Scanned Baby
Message-ID: <35bc883e.21606001@legend.firstsaga.com>
Only because some of you asked...there is now a link at the
Swap'N'Shop site that leads to a few pictures of my grandson.
I promise to get back "on-topic". ;-)
Len
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:42:46 -0500
From: "Dr. Phillip Anz-Meador"
To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'"
Subject: RE: AEG G.II (was Re: Cats on Aircraft!
Message-ID: <01BDB8AC.0A4631A0.panz-meador@vsti.com>
FWIW:
(1) americals has the cat marking for G.5/15 (not 6/15 as shown on the
referenced JPG) on their sheet no. 80 (1:72 scale); they are similarly
available in 1:48 scale.
(2) i've had the same question about backdating the G.IV to earlier
versions. the canadian blahblahblah museum is sending me photocopies of
the file materials used to restore their G.IV, as well as digitial pix
(promised for september). if there's anything there, i'll forward it along
to the list.
phillip
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Shatzer [SMTP:bshatzer@orednet.org]
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 1998 12:51 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: AEG G.II (was Re: Cats on Aircraft!
>>That is my dilema, This AEG G.II would become part of a series of MvR
known
>aircraft. Not being familiar with the aircraft, I noticed a datafile
listed
>for an AEG G.IV. Is the G.II an earlier version that could be backdated?
According to my references, the G.IV was "a slightly refined version
of the AEG G.I, G,II, and G.III types." (Windsock, Vol 3. No. 4)
However, no hints are given as to what the "slight refinements" are
which might be necessary to change a G.II into a G.IV or vice-versa.
Still, if the refinements are truly "slight", it should be a doable
proposition. Alas, I have no other references on either aircraft.
Cheers and all,
--
Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:01:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer)
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Hannover lozenge
Message-ID: <199807262101.OAA12020@ednet1.orednet.org>
>Have a birthday gift of an Eduard Hannover looming soon (sorry Matt, I had
>to try braille scale). I've looked through most of the stuff in the archive
>(very helpful), and found clear consensus that 5 colour lozenge was more
>appropriate than the Eduard supplied 4 colour. However, I just picked up a
>copy of Scale Aviation Modeller that has a good (?) article by Harry
>Woodman on the Hannover CL. series. In it, he makes some strong assertions
>that it is not correct to assume that 5 colour is appropriate (and I quote):
>"One writer has said that the Hannover CL.IIIas (all of them) had five
>colour fabric applied to the wings etc., one wonders how he can be so
>certain. We now have people who can convert the description pink (as quoted
>in an official report) into a precise shade by some magical process. Even
>more astonishing are those who can look at a black and white photograph or
>even a reproduction in a book and state categorically that the fabric is
>four or five colour." (and he goes on, but you get the drift). BTW, he says
>the Eduard decals are "acceptable" (if dulled down to represent fading).
It is not a matter of identifying or counting colors from a black and
white photograph - the pattern for five color lozenge fabric is
different than the pattern for the four color variety. If the photo
is clear enough that the pattern can be ascertained, distinguishing
between four color and five color is easy enough, even though one may
have no idea what the actual colors are. Any of the Datafiles which
deal with German aircraft which used lozenge fabric has a little chart
in the back of the book showing the differences between the two fabric
patterns - with a little practice and given a clear enough photo, the
two patterns can be distinguished. Woodman missed the boat on this
one I fear.
Cheers and all,
--
Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 07:26:52 +1000
From: Shane Weier
To: wwi
Subject: RE: Hannover lozenge
Message-ID: <199807262143.HAA13990@mimmon.mim.com.au>
GDay
>Have a birthday gift of an Eduard Hannover looming soon (sorry Matt, I
had
>to try braille scale). I've looked through most of the stuff in the
archive
My very favourite aircraft and a superb choice on the road to salvation
;-)
>copy of Scale Aviation Modeller that has a good (?) article by Harry
>Woodman on the Hannover CL. series. In it, he makes some strong
assertions
I am a great fan of Harry Woodman, who is directly or indirectly
responsible not just for WW1 history, but for many of the techniques we
use in modern day modelling. But this:
>"One writer has said that the Hannover CL.IIIas (all of them) had five
>colour fabric applied to the wings etc., one wonders how he can be so
>certain. We now have people who can convert the description pink (as
quoted
>in an official report) into a precise shade by some magical process.
Even
>more astonishing are those who can look at a black and white photograph
or
>even a reproduction in a book and state categorically that the fabric
is
>four or five colour." (and he goes on, but you get the drift). BTW, he
says
>the Eduard decals are "acceptable" (if dulled down to represent
fading).
..takes a sensible aversion to people giving precise colour values based
on inspection of B&W photos and mixes it with something which frankly,
is far more scientific and prosaic.
>Now, I'm not a fan of the colour police, but the list seemed to agree
with
>the five colour theory (very reasonably it seemed to me). I'm new to
the
There is a difference in the shapes of the lozenges in 5 colour from
those in 4 colour fabric. One needs neither to count the lozenges nor to
know what colour each is to identify 4 and 5 colour patterns *as long as
the photo is clear enought to distinguish some of the key shapes*
FWIW I have looked through every photo I have of Hanoveranas and if any
have 4 colour loz the picture is too poor to show it. Furthermore, the
vast majority (maybe all, but I haven't seen *all*) have chordwise
application of the fabric on wings and spanwise on control surfaces.
My advice - send a letter to Glen merril at Americals and get some 5
colour loz from him. You may be surprised at how thick it looks, but
don't depair, on the model it will look far better than anything anyone
else makes -IMHO of course
Regards
Shane
------------------------------
End of WWI Digest 1129
**********************