If you watch after the first Bengals drive, TO was all smiles talking to Palmer, I'm sure he told him to throw at 32 all day. Thank god Sparano saw that Allen was struggling early and got him out of there.

"They realized 32 [Allen's number] was a liability out there. Once we exploited that a couple times he saw no more of the field."-Terrell Owens

That is some damning criticism! Just about as bad as what was said about Bobby Carpenter a few weeks ago. I still like Allen but definitely not as our starting corner.

Allen has shown that he simply can't hang with the big boys for long stretches of time. He is adequate for spot duty, but once you throw him in for longer stretches and give him more chances on the field, his deficiencies catch up with him.

Plus, Sean Smith actually did something definitive to regain his starting spot. He smothered his man (TO most of the time) for most of the day, and sealed the deal with his first INT.

Allen has the ability to make plays, but he makes as many negative plays which negates his value as a starter.

_________________A good RB is nice, a good QB even better, but it's best to be able to stop someone first.

BTW...why aren't the same people calling for Culver to start over Clemons? Clemons hasn't made a single game changing play this season but has been burned on several occasions? Yesterday, he not only dropped an easy INT he batted it right to TO for a walk in TD. The guy has 1 PD this entire season. 1.....

BTW...why aren't the same people calling for Culver to start over Clemons? Clemons hasn't made a single game changing play this season but has been burned on several occasions? Yesterday, he not only dropped an easy INT he batted it right to TO for a walk in TD. The guy has 1 PD this entire season. 1.....

Whether it counted or not, the hit in Roethlisberger was game changing. I will admit he has missed some tackles this season but I think he is holding his own. Not sure much was expected from him.

BTW...why aren't the same people calling for Culver to start over Clemons? Clemons hasn't made a single game changing play this season but has been burned on several occasions? Yesterday, he not only dropped an easy INT he batted it right to TO for a walk in TD. The guy has 1 PD this entire season. 1.....

Whether it counted or not, the hit in Roethlisberger was game changing. I will admit he has missed some tackles this season but I think he is holding his own. Not sure much was expected from him.

Define holding his own. Did he "hold his own" yesterday? The guy has been MIA most of the season and the only potential game changing play was last weeks hit. Everyone dogs Allen for the TD yesterday. Go look at the play again and look where Clemons went. He drifted over to double cover Ocho Cinco while Owen's got the ball pretty much where Clemons Started. Maybe that was the defense that was called but it sure looked to be zone and Clemons made the wrong decision.

I agree with Junkie here... teams are targeting Clemons and I don't blame them. He dropped 2 interceptions yesterday (one of which winded up in TO's hands) and consistently lets the deep route behind him.

Hell if it wasn't for the late breakup by Benny Sapp against T.O. on that one bomb it would've been another TD! Idk if Sapp had the original coverage on him, but where was the safety help?

I'm not sure Culver would be a better option, but I do know we need a Safety... maybe early in next years draft if we don't get a big name free agent.

Define holding his own. Did he "hold his own" yesterday? The guy has been MIA most of the season and the only potential game changing play was last weeks hit. Everyone dogs Allen for the TD yesterday. Go look at the play again and look where Clemons went. He drifted over to double cover Ocho Cinco while Owen's got the ball pretty much where Clemons Started. Maybe that was the defense that was called but it sure looked to be zone and Clemons made the wrong decision.

He's made his share of mistakes and missed tackles but has defended some passes and made some tackles. He's a 2nd year free safety still learning. Not much is expected and he isn't getting beat consistently by the QBs he's faced. Whether he was responsible for that TD or not he kept Palmer in check the remainder of the day. And yes, he has been a part of a few deep TD passes. But even the best safeties have that happen from time to time.

BTW...why aren't the same people calling for Culver to start over Clemons? .....

Because most Miami fans have always hated Allen for being a No. 1 pick.

NFLJunkie wrote:

Clemons hasn't made a single game changing play this season but has been burned on several occasions? Yesterday, he not only dropped an easy INT he batted it right to TO for a walk in TD. The guy has 1 PD this entire season. 1.....

That could have been a game changing play & had TO caught that last one it would have been one also.

Define holding his own. Did he "hold his own" yesterday? The guy has been MIA most of the season and the only potential game changing play was last weeks hit. Everyone dogs Allen for the TD yesterday. Go look at the play again and look where Clemons went. He drifted over to double cover Ocho Cinco while Owen's got the ball pretty much where Clemons Started. Maybe that was the defense that was called but it sure looked to be zone and Clemons made the wrong decision.

He's made his share of mistakes and missed tackles but has defended some passes and made some tackles. He's a 2nd year free safety still learning. Not much is expected and he isn't getting beat consistently by the QBs he's faced. Whether he was responsible for that TD or not he kept Palmer in check the remainder of the day. And yes, he has been a part of a few deep TD passes. But even the best safeties have that happen from time to time.

What Terrell is basically saying is that the only reason his team scored any points is because of one bad player who was benched in the 1st quarter, and we all know the luck of him getting that second catch...

So if not for Allen and dumb luck the Bungles would not have scored...

I actually like Chris Clemons and he is still learning back there at safety. He made a couple of nice plays although I know he will get knocked for not coming down with the interceptions and one could argue Terrell Owens got deep on him at the end of the game, but Palmer badly under threw the ball.

Clemons is still showing flashes of improving and he is a much better upgrade over Gibril Wilson from last years line up.

I really believe he is due to make a big play. Stick with him, he just might blossom into a very good NFL safety.

Jason Allen unfortunately has been having a rough time and I think Sean Smith is poised to be more consistent at corner. He really seemed to lock down the receivers in the second half yesterday.

Brett Favre also said that Allen was the guy they were trying to take advantage of when they played us. That's two players now that have openly said their team's passing strategy was to go after Allen. I can't remember anyone really picking on Smith. Yes he did get burned quite a bit as a rookie, but so did Vontae. After seeing Vontae and Sean absolutely shut things down last week, I'm convinced we've got our future out there.

Brett Favre also said that Allen was the guy they were trying to take advantage of when they played us. That's two players now that have openly said their team's passing strategy was to go after Allen.

Why wouldn't a team go after Allen until he proves himself.

wkloiber13 wrote:

I can't remember anyone really picking on Smith. Yes he did get burned quite a bit as a rookie, but so did Vontae. After seeing Vontae and Sean absolutely shut things down last week, I'm convinced we've got our future out there.

Teams picked on Smith & will pick on him again in the next few weeks. He will be considered the weak link until he proves himself.

Brett Favre also said that Allen was the guy they were trying to take advantage of when they played us. That's two players now that have openly said their team's passing strategy was to go after Allen.

Why wouldn't a team go after Allen until he proves himself.

wkloiber13 wrote:

I can't remember anyone really picking on Smith. Yes he did get burned quite a bit as a rookie, but so did Vontae. After seeing Vontae and Sean absolutely shut things down last week, I'm convinced we've got our future out there.

Teams picked on Smith & will pick on him again in the next few weeks. He will be considered the weak link until he proves himself.

"They realized 32 [Allen's number] was a liability out there. Once we exploited that a couple times he saw no more of the field."-Terrell Owens

That is some damning criticism! Just about as bad as what was said about Bobby Carpenter a few weeks ago. I still like Allen but definitely not as our starting corner.

Allen has shown that he simply can't hang with the big boys for long stretches of time. He is adequate for spot duty, but once you throw him in for longer stretches and give him more chances on the field, his deficiencies catch up with him.

Plus, Sean Smith actually did something definitive to regain his starting spot. He smothered his man (TO most of the time) for most of the day, and sealed the deal with his first INT.

Allen has the ability to make plays, but he makes as many negative plays which negates his value as a starter.

Agreed! I think against certain receivers he can be effective and like you said when he is only being counted on for spot duty. However, he is not starter material. But he still has a lot of value on special teams.

Brett Favre also said that Allen was the guy they were trying to take advantage of when they played us. That's two players now that have openly said their team's passing strategy was to go after Allen.

Why wouldn't a team go after Allen until he proves himself.

wkloiber13 wrote:

I can't remember anyone really picking on Smith. Yes he did get burned quite a bit as a rookie, but so did Vontae. After seeing Vontae and Sean absolutely shut things down last week, I'm convinced we've got our future out there.

Teams picked on Smith & will pick on him again in the next few weeks. He will be considered the weak link until he proves himself.

Its life in the NFL.

Especially when Vontae is on the other side of the field.

I'm not too sure if you guys remember, but Vontae was the one getting targeted last season. Smith was the guy they tried less to throw on. I think you guys are selling Smith too short if you ask me. Take a look at the numbers, when Smith came into the game the Bengals tried to throw to Vontae's man more than Smith's. I would expect a similar result this week. Smith is a big cornerback with wideout speed and ability, quarterbacks don't like throwing at guys like him.

I'm not too sure if you guys remember, but Vontae was the one getting targeted last season. Smith was the guy they tried less to throw on. I think you guys are selling Smith too short if you ask me. Take a look at the numbers, when Smith came into the game the Bengals tried to throw to Vontae's man more than Smith's. I would expect a similar result this week. Smith is a big cornerback with wideout speed and ability, quarterbacks don't like throwing at guys like him.

Good point! Another reason why Davis may have been thrown at so infrequently early this season besides his improved play is because teams viewed the other corner as a much safer option to pick on.