I never quite understood the "real women" comment when referring to weight and curves. It always seemed to imply to me that skinny women aren't really females.

In reality there are more cuvy women than there are women who look like those in commercials, magazines, TV, and movies. "Real Women Have Curves" was the title of an HBO movie based on a play and starred a wonderful young actress America Ferrera. She also starred in "The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants".

Not sure about the rest of you but the NutriSystem commercials make me want to barf.....this coming form someone who used to work for NS.

Yeah, the point is, a lot of what are held up as ideals (models, many actresses, certain figure skaters) have body types (stick figures) that are supposedly wonderful but actually a miniscule percentage of the population naturally and attainable by the rest only through eating disorders or radical plastic surgery. I could diet until I died, and I would still have hips significantly wider than my waist.

Juliet - The fact that your hips are wider than your waist is a good thing....
The other way around would be bad....
I have no idea why girls shaped like broom handles are supposedly the fashion 'ideal', I'd say the overwhelming majority of men prefer the swimsuit/lingerie model type, which is sporty & curvy, definitely shaped like a female, but without .....umh.....extra fat.

Response to Wolf's last comment, I really think that is just science talking. Health is the key to attractive. But sometimes guys and girls cause other things to be publicized.

I find it interesting is the thread about Guys, has not gone in this direction?

First I recognize there are exceptions to the rule, and not everyone is just because the majority is.

I think of is how many women have told me that most of the time they want to look good to other women more then men. Men aren't that hard to please, it is the women in the world. "If you look good to another woman then the men are most likely going to drop."

IMO allot of it comes down to what gets popularized to look at and what people actually want. It is subject to interpretation at any time. Guys acutely wanting opposed to liking to look at the "broomstick" type I think comes from the fact most men are insecure down deep. And to share the down deep means they become very vulnerable. Although there is really no correlation other then the "minds eye" perceiving to be safer, it also has a little to do with a guy feeling like he is big and strong - protector. I mean who isn't tougher than Kate Moss? When it comes to looking they are being told that that is hot, so they mindlessly follow what the media tells them.

On the other hand there are guys who have a desire for women that are bigger than them. I had a friend in high school 5'2" who loved women 6'+. I have another friend who thought that Kristy Ally should keep the weight on.

And as someone was saying, It is not that a woman is "real" by the amount of curves or lack there of. That is just a phrase. Literarily real would mean a woman that feels good and is secure with herself in my book. What ever you got, if you wear it like you own it - that is attractive. Expl. Brittany Spears, I see a picture and think, "she is really not that hot." Then I start thinking about how how there is so much confidence that she is - and she winds up being really hot. Attitude can make the biggest difference.

I am so glad not to have seen the names Pairs H, Pamela A, Anna Nicole....thank goodness there is more taste on this forum then those tackywadd trollops. But Brittany is OK

I think it's a matter of preference, not a judgment. I've always thought that Marilyn Monroe was the ultimate woman, and women like Michelle Pfeiffer (sp?) just don't look healthy. If you look WAY WAY back, there was a woman named Bettie Page, a pin-up girl back during WWII (I think). She was the ideal, where today she'd be considered WAY too fat! She also had very strong features and dark hair, which I've always found very attractive.

That said, I've got to agree with the Kate Winslet fans. I also have to admit that I was a huge fan when Lindsay Lohan broke out (before the big weight loss and while she still had red hair). Ah, to be 20 years younger....! (And rich...and famous enough to meet her...)

I also liked Shakira before she went blonde. She had the most gorgeous, long, nearly black hair!

As you might also gather, it takes far more than a pretty face to impress me. These women also have that something extra; they're great actors, and/or have great personalities. (Kate was just on Conan last night!)

Oh I know Betty Page, considered Fat these days? Not the populous I know. Heck half the pictures of her in "jungle gear" that I recall she always has that definition just under her ribs clearly. IMO not fat in the slightest bit. The girl on NCIS totally reminds me of Betty - I geuss I would evn say that "Punk rock scientist" thing she has going on make her pritty darn ....... BP and Vagas posters, yep.

You must not remember Michel P from Grease 2 - like who would want to remember that movie. I do agree now - Frankie and Johnny, she didn't look well. And also note the idea I mentioned about men being insecure, most likely that is the need for the "broomstick."