Description

A good mixture of climbing abounds. There are trad lines up to three pitches, great slabby routes, and offwidths (ouch!).

There is an entrance fee for the Central Area and for Lower Blair (if you park in front of Blair III). Otherwise, access to the crags is free. The fee areas are Federal land, so Golden Eagle and Golden Age passes are accepted. The camping, once totally free in the surrounding areas, has become more restricted. There is a fee campground in the Central Area with tables and outhouses. Otherwise, free camping is permitted wherever it's not explicitly prohibited. Laramie is a college town with some local brew and dining available a mere 10 miles away. There are a great number of moderate classics as well as some stiffer grades for the big guns out there. There are areas right off the road and some more remote where you'll have little company. Most formations have walkoffs, but rap bolts are fairly prevalent.

References: "Rock Climbing at Vedauwoo" by Robert Kelman, "Fat Crack Country--Rock Climbing in Vedauwoo" by Zach Oranczak, "Vedauwoo Bouldering" by Davin Bagdonas and "Heel & Toe: The Climbs of Greater Vedauwoo" by Skip Harper and Rob Kelman. You can also visit www.vedauwoo.org for more information about Vedauwoo and the Snowy Range.

Getting There

You can't miss it. No, you really can't miss it! Take I-25 North to Cheyenne. From Cheyenne go West on I-80 to the Vedauwoo Road, Exit 329. Look for the rocks to the North of the Interstate. You're there.

I yarded off a huge "timebomb" flake that, for years, was used as a killer rest stance just before the crux. The flake was easily removed with a light pull while being lowered. I felt it move substantialy when I first stood on it. Without the flake, the route felt more sustained on toprope.... So, if you want to "feel" like you're doing a "first", get after it. Bring a drill and update the anchor while you're at it.This is an awesome line, but it is not the best rock Vedauwoo has to offer. Hollo...[more]Browse More Classics in WY

References: "Heel & Toe: The Climbs of Greater Vedauwoo" by Skip Harper and Rob Kelman is an absolute must for any trip to Vedauwoo. You can also visit jwharper.com for some more general information about Vedauwoo and the Snowy Range, as well as newer routes not in the first edition of H&T.

Does anybody have good directions to the Heartbreak Hotel area in Vedauwoo? The guide book describes a nice walk around the place... We took a trip to Vedauwoo for the first time, and we found the Crystal Freeway formation which is supposed to be near to it, pretty cool. After we found that, it was supposed to be right close...yeah right??? If you end up behind all these formations (turtle rock is supposed to be one of them?) there is some hardcore bushwacking that is no fun. It was at about this time that we lost the guide book down a nasty cavern...we all felt that was a pretty good place for it at the time...:) BTW- the Nautilus was great fun, and very easy to find too!!!

To get to Hypertension and Heartbreak Hotel, go to the saddle between Turtle Rock and Friction Tower (Crystal Freeway is the north face of Friction Tower). Turn left and scramble/hike uphill over broken slabs about as far as you can go. When you top out (about 100 yds or so uphill) near a cluster of small pine trees, you are looking across a small 'cirque'(about 75 yds) directly at Hypertension, a very overhanging finger crack - it's on a south facing buttress. Go right from Hypertension, around this buttress to its 'backside' (north face) to find Heartbreak Hotel. Neat climbs for a hot day, never sees the sun. Good luck. Hope you find your guidebook.

Thanks for the info! Were heading back up in September, and want to see what we missed. This helps! You said that you head uphill/left from Crystal Freeway. So, if your back is facing Strawberry Jam, do you walk straight up, and slightly left to get up to the cluster of pine trees you mentioned? In other words, do you go basically straight up the slabs? If this is the case, I can see where we went wrong... we headed down, and right...ish. BTW - we plan on bringing a long stick of some sort to [retrieve] the book...:)

Head up left (per previous) from the saddle between the two formations (Turtle Rock and Friction Tower), ie before you get to Crystal Freeway - NOT from the Crystal Freeway. I'm sending you a topo via email to make it clearer. Hope it helps. You will have fun over in there, ie Heartbreak Hotel.

Hey thanks, I really [appreciate] that!!! One thing though, the email address I have isn't working (im in the middle of a move). Could you do me a HUGE favor, and send the topo to welshwatson@juno.com. You will be awarded with a ton of positive chi...:)

Just got back from Vedauwoo. Seems to me the last two times I've visited I've found NOLS and Outward Bound taking up a rather large expanse of rock. They top rope the first pitches of the classic area climbs and are really slow. Usually shuttleing 4 students and a guide up one route. After bumping into them three days in a row I pulled a guide over and asked where they were NOT going to be. Guides of both groupes said they frequent the area mid July. Note this for future planning.

You can actually find copies of Heel and Toe at the University of Wyoming Bookstore, on the first floor of the Wyoming Union building. It's on Ivanson and 15th I think. I don't really know because I walk everywhere on campus. Just don't make it obvuous you're not a student or faculty, I don't know how neurotic the campus security is.

Yeah, in hindsight, I'm sorry posted that. When I went back to pick up a copy myself, they were all gone. First edition Crack Country it is then. And I would imagine the many guides in the Snowies and Vedauwoo would not appreciate more competition, at least the ones I hang out with wouldn't. It might turn out like the Bastille Crack in Eldo. God help you if you say something "Un-American" on a Saturday there, the ROTC kids from CU rapping the first pitch (but not climbing it) might make you explain yourself.

Took a trip up to Vedawoo on Friday (April 25th). Still a bit of snow on the ground. Lots of fog. Edward's is good and dry. Many of the other routes on Walt's Wall,Coke Bottle, etc. have little waterfalls running down them. Should be excellent in a week or two.

Your local public library probably has a copy. Copyright law allows for making one copy of printed materials for [reference] or research. If you get the redux ratio right, you can fit the 'open' page of the book onto [a single] 8.5x11" page of a copy machine. This was done in the BCPL many times while Boulder Climbs North and BCS were out of print.

The CU library has a copy of "Heel and Toe" in its Special Collections, Mountaineering section.Since its in the special collections, you can't check it out. You have to apply for photocopying (which I'm sure they will allow), and they will let you photocopy no more than 10 pages.

I'm sure all copies at local public libraries have been "lost", as unscrupulous individuals would be willing to pay the library replacement fee and just keep the book.

Bob, you've made some incorrect personal assumptions about me. First of all, you saying that *I* did something is offensive. I don't see where I said that I copied any guidebook, I personally did not. While you state for me not to take this as a personal assault, you berate my proposed moral flexibility. I am sure that false accusations are covered somewhere in your moral spectrum, and possibly in the lessons that your mother taught you. As well, your habbit of posting to this board in response to me then LATER asking me to call you about it is not appealing to me. If you want to know something, contact me first, then post your response after we've talked, not before.

When a book is out of print, I can't go buy it in such a way that the author gets any money out of it (nobody gets [royalties] on Ebay). When your favorite music album is out of print and you scratch yours, would you copy it to tape? When something is out of print, there isn't one to buy until the new one is out. In this case I don't see a date around for that. I'd agree with sending the author a few $ or a 6-pack of beer or whatever, provided you can find where to contact them if you have to copy the book.

I saw a lot of people [with] copies of BCN and BCS. A photo-copy of BCS fell into my hands in fact. And guess what? I already have a copy... two if you count the one that was stolen. But I do pull out a page from the binder and take it up a climb with me at times.

Rossiter isn't going to suffer any over my guidebook practices, considering I've owned 2 copies of BCS, one of BCN, the Eldo book, the Flats book, the BC book, and both of his RMNP books. Don't worry too much about me copying your books either- although I've never seen or read one, if they are in print and I wanted one, I'd go buy it. If I could not purchase the info, I'd go make a photo copy though, and if I wasn't afraid of you going off on me I'd buy you a 6 pack in return. Sheesh.

All of that said- one point I left out. I am talking about *out of print and unavailable* material. If the guidebook is in print, I agree with all who say go buy your own. I see that the "Rob Calm" person is actually Rob Kelman and he's put his info up there.

Your assumptions are wrong. They may not be bad, but they are wrong. Still, I think a standard of evidence further than assumption or presumption should be had prior to calling someone a thief, particularly as you noted that it seemed very out of character for me. You are correct, I wouldn't steal. Of course I've photocopied pages from a guidebook before. You think I carry my whole book collection into the backcountry or up the [Diamond] with me? I shrink it down and tuck it into my sock or pockets.The 'effort' I put into checking legal status of copying material was nothing more than reading what was posted in my university library at the copy machines years ago and some discussion of that with a few of my profs- which at the time was intellectual, and not applied to guidebooks. I was doing research papers although we're talking over a decade ago... It was validated by an English Department head as well.In private, your arguments were a lot better and I think a more lengthy discussion of your point of view would be a good input into this discussion, or maybe even writing something for the issues page. This is not the first time it's been debated here and no doubt won't be the last.

The Sherriff and his deputies set up camp this morning in the park to investigate after someone found human remains (skull with a bullet hole) somewhere near the Nautilus. But climbers kept on climbing!

Ernie, I saw the police at Veda. and was wondering.... It is a nice place to climb and camp, although, be aware... Camp in numbers if possible. I have had an episode where we (wife and i) were camped in the truck, and a bunch of Wyoming trucks drove up around our vehicle, we stayed in, and out of site, they eventually left... Also, a few friends of mine (man, wife, and kids) had their camp encircled by Wyoming trucks shooting guns into the air, and the people saying "you greenies (Colorado licence plates) "Go home!" He ended up packing up camp and leaving after they left for fear of family safety. Ya' gotta love Wildoming! h

My apologies for the less cordial Wyoming Natives. There are a larger number of us dragging our knuckles about than I'd like to think. Do keep in mind however that on a summer weekend, 90% of the parking spots are taken by vehicles from Colorado. The running joke is that CO's best kept secret is Wyoming.

If you don't want to deal with bitter locals upset that they drive 15 miles to walk 6 before they find a route that's open, then can I suggest South St. Vrain canyon? Or perhaps South Platte if you want the same type of rock? Clear Creek Canyon is pretty open too, as well as the Flatirons, but all three are getting a bit far south. Lumpy Ridge, I hear, has some good climbing. Or do some of that unclimbed granite near Virginia Dale. Or perhaps you could pick a other route than Edward's Crack, Kim, or Coldfinger. Go do Jaquot's face (its the line of bolts right of Ed's) or Candlestick (big chimney a ways left of Friday the 13th). Go try Overload or work Lucille. Try Father #1 or for something easier do Horticulture. Try Captain Nemo. Everybody up there it seems is afraid to push it out into interesting climbs, so those of going for a quick afterwork burn can actually do so and not just walk for hours on end looking for an open route. You people are on vacation, you've got time to walk a bit eh?

I'm presently roadtripping more than climbing at Vedauwoo (and I live in Laramie) because I can never get on any routes worth doing. There's something ridiculous about getting up there at 8 in the morning and still getting beat to Edward's Crack by "Greenies."

And for what its worth, the police were there because a body was found at Vedauwoo a month or two back. I remember when they were looking. We'd arrived at Vedauwoo around 7:30 and still barely made up to Ed's in time. There were 4 parties waiting to start when we got down. And a group going up Walt's who dropped their trail line. Fighting them off with a stick I tell ya!

Yes, we greenies should not be traveling within the borders of our country to climb anywhere but within our home state. We should probably also not be attending or sponsoring any events that bring income to Wyoming You should probably institute a State Passport System, so you can limit travel within your borders by issuing Visas. Do not judge a person by the color of their license plate!

I have been to Wyoming a few times to climb...and I have never had a bad experience, beyond the speed trap in Sinclair. I told the driver to slow down when I saw the billboard sized 15MPH sign and the old patrol sitting there. And if anyone has seen my bullet ridden skull, please return it, they have a habit of rolling out of your pack you know.

At the risk of sounding like a troll, let me lastly say this: Having lived in the Boulder area for nearly seven years, I got used to crowds. The idea of going into Eldo, or Boulder Canyon, or even the Flatirons often brought with it a sense of lack of solitude. However, most of the time, I only had to fight for a parking space. It would seem however, that there are only a few climbs worth doing at Vedauwoo, but they are most certainly always worth driving an hour or more for. Like I said, if you're going to come all this way, do something more obscure than the now super-polished area classics. I've become a connosieur of obscure routes, sometimes grunting up a climb that hasn't been done, by anyone, in years. It does not bother me that you come to Vedauwoo, or anywhere in Wyoming for that matter. It bothers me that you come for only one place, or only one route. I don't suppose you've ever been to Sweet Water Rocks, near Lander, or the sandstone above the dam at Flaming Gorge Resevoir? I doubt you're aware of the sport climbing near Cody, or Limestone near Ten Sleep. I see continuously people who come to Wyoming to climb, thinking the only good rock is in Vedauwoo, Sinks Canyon, The Tetons, and the Winds. Its a big state. There is so much more here and if you're willing to look you'll find it. But I forgot, Colorado climbers are lazy. I should know, I used to be one. In my time there I learned of a lot of places that could use some development, if you felt like going. But if you're happy to keep climbing in the same old place over and over again and tell yourself that this is the best, feel free. I'll just as soon go where I can find the solitude that Wyoming has so much of.

Guilty, Yes I have climbed Edwards Crack and Kim, but once was enough for me.

Fremont [Canyon] rules, but I cannot seem to encourage any of my friends to drive up to Casper again with me....(maybe your onto something)...heh

It is Dome Rock that is between here and Lander/Wild Iris...that reminded me of the S. Platte, specially the sketchy historic bolt clipping....if it wasn't for the traffic ticket and my first driver side rear tire disintigration on my buddy's Ford Exploder, that trip would have been perfect.

But enough about me, how about climbingwyoming.com, I am sure that would attract a few of us lazy bastards away from Vedauwoo....and the URL is even available...you could be the next Wyoming Ambassador...go for it!

Soul Fire- a good overhanging hand and fist crack on John's Tower, Blair. 30 feet long but steep and sustained the whole way. Next to Scarlet Begonia's under the two giant boulders.Hasnt seen a second ascent.

The Milkman-10c, Climb Father #1 until you reach the horizontal seams out right. Climb out right getting some small pro until you reach a bolt. The climb then heads up past another 4 bolts passing the folds and right of the shallow corner on the top. Fun face climbing and you can expect to have the route all to youself.

The new guide should be coming out in the next month. Zach Orenzach is putting it out and he seems to have done some good research, a lot of history about the area and FA info that is reliable. There will only be a limited amount of copies since he is a dirtbag climber so score one when they come out.

I made a post on the route Drop Zone in May, but now that I read more into this site, I think it's more appropriate here. I've been climbing for a couple years and Vedauwoo is my home. The more I travel to places like Hueco and the Gunks, the better I feel when I come home to the Voo. Don't get me wrong, I loved climbing at both of those places. I just feel in my element at Vedauwoo.

As for Skip Harper, I greatly admire him. He's done so much for documenting the area, and we should all be thankful. The huge groups aren't necessarily from him, but NOLS and outdoor groups like that. I have no problems with small groups wanting to go climb, heck even I will take some (4 or 5) of my friends out for a day. The thing with this is sharing. If someone just walks up, wanting to do whatever climb and I'm on it, I'll offer to pull my rope for a couple of attempts or they can climb on my rope! I really don't care, we need to stop fighting though. If we continue to fight and not abide by things like Leave No Trace and support the Access Fund, Veedauwoo is doomed for climbers and possibly everyone. As much as I can do, I'm afraid that Vedauwoo might turn into what's currently happening in Hueco Tanks or the Happy Boulders in California.

Sincerely, I am a Wyoming native. And I really don't mind if the "greenies" want to come climb in my back yard - they are citizens of the United States too. This is a great country in that the citizens have freedom. But please respect that it is my backyard. Pick up the trash (I'm not throwing out blame, we do it too). But help me out here. We (ALL of us) need to make a conscious effort to share and to take care of this precious treasure. If everyone enjoys it as much as they say they do, they should take care of it.

I made a post on the route Drop Zone in May, but now that I read more into this site, I think it's more appropriate here. I've been climbing for a couple years and Vedauwoo is my home. The more I travel to places like Hueco and the Gunks, the better I feel when I come home to the Voo. Don't get me wrong, I loved climbing at both of those places. I just feel in my element at Vedauwoo.

As for Skip Harper, I greatly admire him. He's done so much for documenting the area, and we should all be thankful. The huge groups aren't necessarily from him, but NOLS and outdoor groups like that. I have no problems with small groups wanting to go climb, heck even I will take some (4 or 5) of my friends out for a day. The thing with this is sharing. If someone just walks up, wanting to do whatever climb and I'm on it, I'll offer to pull my rope for a couple of attempts or they can climb on my rope! I really don't care, we need to stop fighting though. If we continue to fight and not abide by things like Leave No Trace and support the Access Fund, Veedauwoo is doomed for climbers and possibly everyone. As much as I can do, I'm afraid that Vedauwoo might turn into what's currently happening in Hueco Tanks or the Happy Boulders in California.

I am a Wyoming native. And, sincerely, I really don't mind if the "greenies" want to come climb in my back yard - they are citizens of the United States too. This is a great country in that the citizens have freedom. But please respect that it is my backyard, my home. Pick up the trash (I'm not throwing out blame, we do it too). But help me out here. We (ALL of us) need to make a conscious effort to share and to take care of this precious treasure. If everyone enjoys it as much as they say they do, they should take care of it.

Reading through all these posting relating to the mofo greenies, I would like to clarify that the majority of these comments come out of Laramie, and not "Wyoming". Vedauwoo is located in a "National" Forest, and everyone is welcome there. Unfortunately, Vedauwoo is just east of Laramie, and we all have to live with that.

Looks like climbingwyoming.com is under construction. Somebody with deeper pockets (and more time on their hands) beat me to it. How long before I find out if anything has been climbed in Wind River Canyon, I can only wonder. If they're in league with you guys, does that mean that all the Vedauwoo beta will move there? I tremble with trepidation.

How do you link a guidebook with an area?? Some areas on this database, such as Rifle, have 2 or 3 guidebooks listed under the area description but the Vedauwoo section has no guides listed. Heel/Toe and Fat Crack Country should be linked to that page. It would also be great if some of the older historical guides could be listed for each area, like Layne Kopischka's old guidebooks for Vedauwoo. Someone out there must have old an old copy that you could scan the cover and send in.

I'm a Laramite that does not subscribe to the conspiracy theory that the Greenies are taking over. I am not bothered by the crowds descending upon Vedauwoo during our 4 months of good climbing. There is a ton of stuff to climb that does not see the great throngs of topropers and hangdoggers from Boulder if you are willing to walk a little further. Please excuse the mindless Scroggin? spewing being emitted from some of the so called locals.

I suppose I earned that. About a week (maybe more) of being an elitist tool, coupled with no delete button, will tend to earn one his fair share of flames. But I suppose you could've responded with "not as many crowds as it looks," or "just as much of a lazy oaf as the ones he's complaining about" (potentially true I might add) or even throw my seven years as a colorado resident (mind you I grew up in Cheyenne) back at me. Instead you make fun of my name. Wow dude. My hat is off to you. I must have missed that part when I learned how to debate. I could tell you I've grown some, and just get irritated when any one place (Eldo, Supercrack Buttress, Devil's Tower, The Dome in Boulder Canyon) gets over-run for one supposed classic when all the really good stuff lies dormant; but then you couldn't flame me for it. And if you can't flame somebody, why go online?

I love this stuff of the anonymous coward. Climbers are people with nutz and most that I know are not afraid to say what they think. On this Vedauwoo site, there are way too many comments by the anonymous cowards. Are you afraid that someone will kick your ass if you speak up? Are you intimidated by the prospect that you will have to back up what you say? Are you afraid that you may end up in a duke out and might get whipped? Aw! Some people hide behind this title so that they can cut on anyone with whom they have a beef. Some don't like Heel and Toe and the author. Some don't like the new attempt at a guide for the area. If you feel this way, don't be afraid to put your name behind the comment. I don't need a guide book for this area and if you are a local like me you don't need a book to show you around the place; I practically live there so a book is not important to me. I don't like these guided groups from Wy. or Colorado that come up here and storm the rocks and trash the place. It is all about money, not ethics. These groups destroy the character of the area. Most of these groups are loud and don't come close to fitting to an area like Vedauwoo and the people who bring them will never speak to these issues because of the earning potential these groups bring to them. At any rate, I am not an anonymous coward and I'll back up and defend what I say. John Benson Cheyenne, Wyo.

I really tire of the anonymous cowards. In my opinion, if you are going to cut on someone in the comments section you need to sign your name and not be afraid to back it up if you have the nutz for it. People cut on the Heel and Toe book and author; now there is a new publication out and already the cowards are starting with the lips flappin' if you have something to say, say it and sign it. What? Are you afraid that you will someday encounter these people and you will have to defend yourself either with words or fists? Gripes, yes I have them. The guided groups at Vedauwoo are really taking away the character of the place. They are loud and have no clue about behavior in these almost sacred places. The leaders never clue them in because they fear loss of profit and that is a bunch of bullshit. John Benson, Cheyenne, Wyo.

Would anyone out there care to dispel the nasty rumor that the new guidebook was selling for twenty bucks in a Casper climbing shop but only for ten on the web? A fifty per cent discount for buying on the web? Hell of a deal. My understanding is that the Casperites are miffed. Happy climbing. John Benson, Cheyenne, WY.

I enter the debate only because climbers are a witty crew: All of us WYO natives were taught the concept of wanting Greenies to 'go home'. Ironically the majority of us grow up and move to COLO. COLO is where WYO economy comes from. What's the biggest city in WYO? Denver. It's the airport, the shopping, the sports, the entertainment and the source of groceries. Without the COLO economy, WYO would blow away in mere days (VEED pun intended). VEED is popular because it's on a freeway in a populated area. If it has a 100 mile radius draw, then 90% of the vehicles will be from COLO because that's the population dispersion in this region. This is why UW and Snowy Range do their marketing in COLO. The rest of the western states embrace anything they can get from out of state in the Bush economy. And, in turn, COLO people go to WYO to remember what freedom tastes like. Not to steal anything but to embrace it and to experience it. It's rather pointless to think of Laramie and Albany Counties as being that separate from COLO. It would make sense to WANT weekend touring climbers to stick to Walt's, Edward's and Cold Fingers so that the outlying areas are kept pristine (is the lichen getting climbed off on John's Wall yet?). We complained about Edward's being crowded 20 years ago and whined about Layne making a guidebook. If WYO climbers aren't flocking to the quartz walls of Lake Marie instead of VEED there may be a reason of geography or economy. I'm willing to bet few local VEED climbers' grandparents were natives anyhoo. We're the most transient country on this Earth. COLO has hundreds of thousands of conservative whackos and rednecks but let's hope they don't visit WYO. And if your alarmed by gun-firing rednecks in your campsite you're probably just sane! (though they might have been hired by the local climbers hehehe). - Jay P.

The weekend of July 10 '04 a friend and I climbed on the Holdout. Beef Eater to be exact. When I got to the top, I noticed someone had chopped two of the three bolts. Luckily, I brought enough gear to make the belay safe, but that didn't solve the problem of getting down safely. We then walked to the three other rap stations on the Northwest side only to find the same scenario. All but one bolt was either chopped or the nuts and hangers were removed leaving the raps usless.

We then walked to the Southeast side only to find the same BS there. Now, we didn't look above "Flaming Blue Jesus" because it was out of sight from the top, but I presume it was the same story.

We ended up having to down climb a section of rock that was uncomfortable to say the least. Who ever did this was trying to prove a point of some kind. I'm not sure exactly what, but I did light a fire under my ass. This is a good way for someone to get hurt. Climbers beware of the state that some ahole left the raps on top of the Holdout.

John, were the rap bolts on Holdout chopped or just had the hangers removed? Someone else posted a comment in June that someone stole all the hangers on the rap Holdout anchors. It would be good to know if we're dealing with some cheap prick stealing hangers or a deranged moron who's chopping bolts.

Yea I just picked up a copy of Rock Climbing in Vedauwoo by Heel and Toe and I noticed there was no info on rappel anchors like how far a rap is or even where they are. Does anybody know where to find out this info?

"Yea I just picked up a copy of Rock Climbing in Vedauwoo by Heel and Toe and I noticed there was no info on rappel anchors like how far a rap is or even where they are. Does anybody know where to find out this info?"

Dear Anonymous Coward: Rappel stations are indicated by the symbol "R" in the graphics . There are dozens of them in the book! For almost all rappels, a 50m rope will suffice although a 60 m rope is required on some of the more recent rappel stations. When there is an issue with rope length, it is spelled out in detail, e.g., the written information given on p. 79 and set off by a warning sign. Also the symbols "DC" and "WO" are used for down climb and walk-off. The issue of lengths of rappels is discussed on p. 12. Disclaimer: it is the climber's responsibility for employing safe rappel techniques and not that of the guidebook author.

If you want to get technical about it, the name "Sioux" is generally not preferred. A name created by French Canadians, it is a shortened version of the Algonquin word "Nadouessioux" which means "little snakes," or "enemy" and that contrasts most ideologies (fairly passive) of the Lakota nations which encompass the macroscopic name "Sioux," literally translated to mean "friends" or "allies." See also the name Lakhota.

I must agree with they guy who said that most of the "Colorado, leave us the hell alone" comments are coming out of Laramie. And I hear most of those from students at UW. However, I know a couple of the major "players" I'll call them in Laramie in the climber's social circle. And they could care less. They rarely show their faces at the popular and "crowded" areas. They, as locals, know where the cool places are and few others, even Wyomingites, know these places. I lived in Wyoming for 21 years. I am a Wyo native as I've said before. WE NEED to start SHARING!!!! Quit whining about people being on "your" route and make a few friends. Bring some beer and share. Just be sure to clean up!I reiterate - I'm a Wyomingite and it really is ok for out of staters to come to the Voo, my home. I welcome you."Date a climber, they use protection!"

Hey Chris- The Solar Collector is a bit of a pain to find, super easy to miss while walking down the trail. If [you're walking] from the parking area below Ed's just walk past Holy Saturday, past the Land of the Rising Moon which will be up high on the right. After passing these just keep an eye out on the left side of the trail and you'll see it about 300 ft back. In Kelman's book he says it is adjacent to Turtle Rock Tower although I dont know quite what that is. Virgin's Crack is pretty cool but probably mungy since nobody goes out there.

«I was looking for Solar Collector a few weeks ago and [couldn't] find it. Did someone misplace the rock? Any help would be appreciated for the directionally challenged!»

«Hey Chris- The Solar Collector is a bit of a pain to find, super easy to miss while walking down the trail. If [you're walking] from the parking area below Ed's just walk past Holy Saturday, past the Land of the Rising Moon which will be up high on the right. After passing these just keep an eye out on the left side of the trail and you'll see it about 300 ft back. In Kelman's book he says it is adjacent to Turtle Rock Tower although I dont know quite what that is. Virgin's Crack is pretty cool but probably mungy since nobody goes out there.» ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Chris: I know the author of “Rock Climbing at Vedauwoo, WY” and he, like you, is directionally challenged. That’s why he included GPS coordinates for climbs in the outlying areas so if he needed to go to them a second time, he wouldn’t waste a lot of time trying to remember where they were. In fact, he is so challenged that he uses a GPS unit so he won’t get lost trying to get back to his car.

So stop being so last century. Buy an iPod and a GPS unit and enjoy your walk to the Solar Collector and other outlying areas and arrive there with no problems. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wade Griffith of Boulder:

You say “In Kelman's book he says it is adjacent to Turtle Rock Tower although I dont know quite what that is.”

What a coincidence. A guy from Laramie named Wade Griffith did the beautiful and accurate illustrations in the book. In his drawing on p. 6, he shows the location of Turtle Rock Tower. Take a look at the illustration.

Also, in “Rock Climbing at Vedauwoo, WY”, it is not stated that Solar Collector is “adjacent” to Turtle Rock Tower. It states correctly, p. 31, “To reach Solar Collector, take the Turtle Rock Loop Trail from the Holy Saturday Parking Lot. At a mile and a third, Turtle Rock Tower will be clearly visible on the right.”

As Kelman explains on p.4, the name “Turtle Rock” has an ambiguous meaning because its use by climbers did not correspond to its appearance on the US Geological Survey Map (Sherman Mts. East Quadrangle Wyoming). Kelman clarifies this with a lucid explanation. I’ve always found the guy to be a stickler for details, which not everybody appreciates, as it tends to make him a pain in the butt according to his climbing partners.

There are 3 references to Turtle Rock in the Index including a specific reference to Turtle Rock Tower. That might have helped you figure out what Turtle Rock Tower is (but it would require looking in the Index!). The unusually high quality of the Index stems from the fact that the author is a professional editor and the small company publishing the book did not place limitations found in the more mass produced guidebooks.

Cheers,

Rob.calm _______________________________________________________ ‘Tis better to have trad and failed then not to have trad at all.

P.S. Wade Griffith of Boulder, are you related to Wade Griffith of Laramie?

Watch your gear at Vedauwoo because it looks like there are some greasy theft artists at work. I caught two who ran off with some slings and biners, denied they did it then said I had a bad attitude when the slings showed up in one of their packs. My partner got some great 35 mm close up shots of one of them and maybe I'll post them at the area so all can have a look at 'em. johnny b.

Has anyone else wondered what inspired Robert Kelman to measure the approaches to several areas in furlongs?? When I wanted to go to Jurassic Park, the guidebook said to hike in 4 furlongs. I was baffled. For all of you that weren't around in the Dark Ages, including myself, a furlong is 660 feet, or 1/8 of a mile. It was used to measure the distance of crop rows plowed by oxen in medieval England. Why Kelman would choose this ancient measurement is beyond me. Does anyone else have an explanation??

I busted up laughing when I read your comment Jeremy. A bunch of us spent a couple days this weekend back in the Devil's Playground, End of the Road Rocks, Spelunk Spire, etc area. We spent much time philosiphizing about your question. Hell, out of several engineers, a couple physicists, a couple teachers, etc, we still couldn't remember how long a furlong was. I guessed that it was an 1/8 of a mile (it seemed like I heard that about horse racing or something?).

In the next edition, we hope that he uses the following distance measurements: angstroms, parsecs, barnes, light years, picometers, or other such nonsense. All this aside, we still couldn't find that dammmmed Parade Rock.

After sifting through the Vedauwoo route descriptions, I have come to the shaky conclusion that the area IS NOT all offwidths. If I were to take a trip there, and if I enjoy finger and hand cracks, would I be disappointed?

This is not to say that I wouldn't sample the wide things...I just don't consider myself a connoisseur.

Jay, If you enjoy short routes on sharp rock that will bruise your hands even if taped and cut your skin even if covered, then you won't be disappointed. Seriously though, lots of the stuff here is short so if you come looking for long routes or multipitch adventures this place has a limited number of climbs to offer. Think Joshua Tree (if you have ever been there) but with bigger crystals and more pure cracks per square mile. On the upside, this place is hard to beat for its main style of climbing: flared straight in overhanging cracks, and yes they come in every size.

Not to mention it's a beautiful place where just wandering around and exploring is as delightful as climbing.

And yes, if you come looking for long routes and multipitch adventures you might be disappointed. If you visit Yosemite looking for sweet limestone pockets, you will be equally bummed.

If you think testy, yet low-commitment crack battling in a timeless landscape of worn granite piles and pockets of high-plains aspen and evergreens sounds OK, you'll probably find your visit was worthwhile. Also user-friendly car-camping both free and paid, and you can't beat the highway access.

But yeah, keep that 4 Camalot on your butt. It'll probably come in handy at some point.

Finally got up here last weekend to check the place out. Very cool place very cool climbing. I was a bit surprised by how close all the main areas where to the highway, but still a beautiful place. We came up on Friday and after climbing found what we thought was a perfect private camp spot. Well as the night went on more and more cars and trucks kept coming down the road seeing us and then turning around and going elsewhere. Just as it was getting dark, a freaking army of RVs, motor homes, trucks dragging trailers of ATVs and who knows what else come down the road, surround us, and start making camp. These people who were obviously all together. A couple of them pulled up into our campsite got out conversed with each other standing about ten feet from my buddy and I staring in disbelief, and proceed to get back in their cars pullout drive about fifty feet down the road and pull into the middle of field in front of us and set up camp without saying a word to us. Next a couple dudes start guiding a motorhome into the middle of our camp, almost get the dude stuck and he reverses into field across the road from us and flips on his generator, they never said a word to us. Standing there we didn't think it could get any worse, until the army of goblins come busting out of all the homes on wheels and start playing football in front of our camp. I'm talking like 30 freaking kids!! Next come the ATVs zipping back and forth up and down road and the hum of like eight more generators. We quickly grabbed our sleeping gear and hiked until we found a good spot where these people weren't on top us, but just a warning to the unsuspecting fools like us. ABSOLUTELY THE RUDEST BUNCH OF PEOPLE I HAVE EVER EXPERIENCED CAMPING!!! I'm not exaggerating.

Andrew points out a common problem with Vedauwoo on the weekends: its popular. Not just with climbers either. So if you want solitude on a Saturday, be prepared to go a long ways or show up in the off season. That or just come up during the week. That's what I always do.

There's a large boulder below the Slabs area with a short east-facing toprope route. It climbs an obvious series of slopey cobbles started by standing on a boulder and reaching high for some horrible overhanging crimps. A few more desperate moves leads to much easier vertical slopers up higher. The whole thing is maybe 25 feet tall. Name/grade/FA?

Doug, Are you talking about the large boulder right off the Turtle Rock trail, right by the parking lot below Walts Wall? If not this boulder, where is this boulder at? The Slabs is no area that I know of.

From the lower parking lot, it was maybe 75 yards walking directly towards the Coke Bottle in the vague drainage. The route isn't obvious unless you're walking back towards the parking lot, there's a pine tree that partially obscures the line. Guess I should've taken a pic of it.

Doug, I'm pretty sure I know which boulder you are talking about now. I have never heard of anyone doing that, though it may have been done. It is an obvious and beautiful line. The guy to ask about that would be Davin Bagdonas, who posts on this site under his name. Hope that helps.

I was up in Vedauwoo last week & found two obscure routes: a route called Side Street, 5.12, starts just to the right of Main Street up a left-leaning seam on thin gear and joins Main Street. I couldn't touch it. The other route was called Winners and Losers, 5.12c, out at Reynold's Hill. I guess just last year it was pictured in Alpinist as a project, but it had been climbed years ago and went unreported. Looked totally sick, I knew better than to try an OW roof of that grade!!! The guy I was climbing with said someone named Varco put the routes up.

Pablo, just needed to correct that Hypertension does not have two pitches. Hanging at the stopper nest does not count as doing the whole route. Just wanted to clear that up because things like that are important to me. Also SAL, not much controversy really, just some unreported routes.

On another note, I am sensing a bit of hostility toward Vedauwoo locals with people assuming for the most part that we are just a host of mean characters. For the most part, this is false. Step up with some respect and you will get the same in return. If I contributed to this at all with the "some local" BS that was unintentional. The motivation for that was to not be labeled a horn blower, because sharing those problems was the point of adding them. I didn't just leave the FA field blank because I get sick of everyone assuming that someone from somewhere else put that stuff up. It's all about respect, really.

Attention everyone who climbs at the Voo. This last Sunday I was with a good friend belaying him on a project at Coyote Rocks. He has been working this line all fall and had set up an anchor system for toping out. Sadly someone has taken all of his anchor set up. THIS IS NOT COOL. RETURN THE ANCHORS TO ITS PLACE! Not sure who would do this, but it was obviously anchors not gear left, so whoever you are please return the gear to its rightful owner.

Yeah, on a route that Scarpelli and Suzuki failed to send years ago. It's right next to Unnamed #4 at Coyote Rocks. Since Justin, who has been working this thing for over a year now, has not yet placed bolts at the top, it seems like a good time saver considering that most all of his belayers have to work around class schedules and their own climbing objectives. Much like project draws on an unsent line, I don't really see why anyone would steal the anchor up there, especially since its clearly for the hard seam, not the easier dihedral to the right.

I was looking through a random book the other day, and it showed a picture of a train going through "Sherman" or maybe Sherman Pass or something near Vedauwoo with a great looking rock formation in the background. I've climbed at Vedauwoo quite a bit, but didn't recognize the formation, and I also can't really think of any formations where the train passes so close to the rock. Do any of you happen to know anything about it? I will try to scan and post the photo later today.

Well, the railroad doesn't go anywhere near any of the area that's considered Vedauwoo. If I had to guess, it'd be in and amongst the Sherman Granite that's near 287 south of Laramie. That rock formation stretches from almost as far south as Fort Collins to clear up past Wheatland. A quick google search reveals that similar photos have been taken near Dale Creek and Sherman, two barely-there villages near the Ames Monument.

I think Jason has a legitimate point here. If not to proclaim your status as a climber, or to indicate where you've been to other climbers, why put such a bumper sticker on your car? Mind you, I have a sticker (which I picked up in Joshua Tree, in case you're curious, every one else seems to be) on my Toyota that says, simply, "Dirtbag Climber". I have numerous others.

Now, the reason such a sticker does not exist is because Vedauwoo lacks an advocacy organization. The Access Fund has been sufficient, as well as self-policing within an often disparate and pugilistic local scene. If you want to form one, I won't stop you, but I doubt many would join. It isn't necessary, so spending money on bumper stickers in lieu of tape or cams seems like a frivolous and unnecessary expense when a lot of us are already Access Fund members.

This is a great area. Awesome place to learn crack climbing skills. It also seems that almost every route is a grade lower than it should be. This is hard place to climb at but very fun and demanding. Vedauwoo Rocks.

Can anyone out there give me some advice? My 11-year old son is CRAZY about rock climbing; took some limited indoor classes and shows real proficiency. He is begging me for lessons but I don't know if there is anything available for his age group that isn't several hours away (we live in Cheyenne). Can anyone steer me to any possibilities?

There are two bolted routes on the Crystal Freeway to the left of Northeast Cutoff and Kitchen's Delight. These routes are new within the last three to four years. They both are rated 5.7; in my opinion they are a little easier than 5.7. I read about these lines on rockclimbing.com. No one takes credit for the F.A. and says that they are unnamed. We climbed these routes and they are very fun. Since there is no name for either, I would like to name the far left route Dharma Nubs. If the folks who put up these climbs decide to take credit for them and want to change the names on this forum, I have no problem with it. I just felt that these lines deserve and name. Climb the left one and you will really dig the nubs.

I was at the Voo this weekend and our posse meet, more like we were interrogated by, this crazy cat named Scarpelli. If you were the one who chopped his route, I would never, ever go back to that crag again. You might even want to quit climbing all together. This dude was pissed ! If he finds you, I believe he will stick both hands (butterflyed) through your ass, grab you by the teeth, and turn you inside out. just sayin'.

@mike1 Yeah, I don't know who's chopping his bolts, or if he's just imagining it, but I heard a huge rant from him today about that. I thought he was going to kill somebody, but when I went over to check it out he was by himself just yelling.

The route in question, set up by Bob S., was destroyed by some chicken s*#t mf; just go back and look at it. It was short and sweet and looked like a lot of fun. My young kids like climbing on that section of rock, and this route would have been and excellent top rope for them and others. I hope Bob finds them and takes care of business; I know a few others around here that would like a shot and them, too. jb

Justin, I just read the letter in your conditions report (missed it before somehow). Dang!! All I knew about the situation was what I gathered from Bob that day. I'd be damn pissed, too. If someone is too incompetent to remove an "offensive" bolt, they obviously have no place doing so, or even in judging it as such.

The routes you saw from MRC are on a feature called "Midsummer Wall." The arching crack is called "The Shortest Night" (9+), and the 3-bolt face which leads to the 7-ish crack is "What Fools..." (we were calling it 9, I guess).

Rob Kelman scoped this area out some time ago, and we installed the rap anchor early this summer. Thanks for checking it out.

Ben, you might want to check with Bob Scarpelli regarding "The Midsummer Wall". I don't know specifically about the routes you mentioned, though I do know that years ago (likely a decade or two ago) he put up the obvious but short roof crack that is a little ways to the climbers left of the arching crack you speak of. The roof crack is called "Another Piece of Cake", inspired by its similarity to "Piece of Cake" in the South Platte. I also know that John Hennings climbed that arching crack you speak of sometime in the early 2000s.

As we all know, it'd be dumb to add a new area for one boulder. BUT, I am sure this boulder has been looked at before but can guarantee it's been unclimbed because the rock quality is horrible. The reason I'm putting this here is because I put a little work into it and under all the shit rock is good rock and it wasn't that hard to get off. If this got cleaned, it'd be a classic. So, if I can get a couple wishful thinkers like myself to get up to this and clean it, I think it'd be totally worth it.

Even though it is doubtful that it belongs to a climber, I found an iPod Touch on the saddle between Glen Dome and Land of the Rising Moon, in Central Vedauwoo. Since karma always comes back around, I am interested in returning it to its proper owner. If it's yours or you believe you lost yours around there, please contact me with some general information regarding this iPod.

Just looked at the dome at 700N last weekend. I can't find anything published on it. I did spy two bolted routes, old, on the right face facing the circular parking area. I went to the back side and found my way to the top. One of the anchor bolts is missing. Across the road to the east where 700N turns off the main road, I found a bolted route on a boulder 200 yards from the road. I would like to know more myself.

So I went out, for the morning, to the normally crowded Friday the 13th alcove. But, today, instead of finding the normal host of people frying in the sun amongst the tape scraps and rope ends, I found a white (soft plastic), narrow-neck Nalgene, and one blue lace-up ClimbX shoe. I would be more than happy to return it to the rightful owner, since I have no use for it.

P.S. PLEASE pick up your trash and do a sweep of the area before you head on to another climb.

P.P.S. 700N is referred to as "Upper Devil's Playground," even though someone tried changing the name to "Limbo." Most of the information you'll find on the area is for bouldering.

Does anyone know which climb this is? It is a beautiful hand crack around the corner from Fall Wall (to the right/north-east). There are rap bolts at the top of the climb and there is a mixed (freshly bolted) face/crack climb that shares an anchor with this climb. A very fun climb! Felt like 5.9, very sustained crack. I can't find it anywhere in any of the guidebooks or online.

Have been googling and searching all weekend, and I cannot find an answer, so I'll go ahead and post the question. We climbed a new-ish bolted route on John's Tower (proper), about 100ft right of Becker this weekend. It was covered in lichen and moss but was an interesting and fun little stop. Anybody have any idea of a name or grade for this route? Thanks!

Can anyone offer any information about this climb? We camped about 0.5 or 0.75 miles past (east) the 8 Ball on the left (north) side of the road and this was right behind our campsite. It's a beautiful crack with very thin hands (maybe off fingers) and a slightly overhanging start with sparse feet. It's only about 35 ft tall with a 2 bolt anchor at the top. I onsighted this with 5 pieces of gear and an insane amount of grunting.

Does anyone have info on the state of the Vedauwoo campground, roads, bathrooms, etc.? I know the Routt-Medicine Bow National Forest staff are on furlough (according to their voice mail greeting), but are the roads closed with gates? Are the bathrooms locked? Is the campground available for use and accessible?

How crowded does this place get and how easy is it to meet people in the campground to climb with? I'm doing a solo road trip and will be passing through in early July - is it optimistic to think I could meet up with people to swap belays without arranging stuff ahead of time?