Can anyone cite a specific example of how any American military action SINCE WW2 has had anything to do with any AMERICAN'S freedom? And don't try
to use the bombings of the al Qaeda camps in Afghanistan in October, 2001 as an example, since there has been no real evidence to support the
justification for it, 9/11, as being what the government-MSM claim it is/was. Can anyone cite anything that isn't mere rhetoric, opinion or emotion
concerning American "freedoms" being achieved by its military since WW2? Let the crickets chirp... or the hollow, baseless, rhetorical bashing
begin.

No argument here. Why can't people just ADMIT that we're helping OTHERS out, or at least THINK we are, and that it has nothing to do with OUR
freedoms (or really lack of freedoms anyway, nowadays, at least since the "Patriot" Acts)?

The way I see it, and my contemporaries agree, we, as Americans do the things the anti-war crowd deem to be un-acceptable, because they, themselves
lack the balls to do it themselves.
Thats fine, but when abdullah comes to take your grand-daughter away because she was driving a car, ...
I did what I could. you cowards.
While you hid behind political correctness, I ate bugs.
While you defended the right of someone you grew-up 5,000 miles from their reality to beat their women, I slept in the cold.

While I watched the medic take pieces of my flesh so as to sew the pieces that were viable back together, and no aenesthetic, cause that was for the
guys that were "really" hurt, I didn't think of the traitors like you.
I thought, I love America, and I am glad I did this so someone else didn't.
You think happy talk gets you through life?
So did the Germans in 1932.

*edit* I'm going to bed because 6:00 comes quick.
even with my crap, I go to work every day, I could say put that in your pipe and smoke it, but I don't want to contribute to the delinquency...
.

Who can say? What proactive actions have thwarted attempts to inflict harm or damage? If the allies had the type of electronic gathering equipment
we have today during say...World War II could we have prevented the horrific actions of Hitler? Perhaps, but I bet we would have a lot more advanced
information about their planned aggressions and movements and with that information deploy our forces effectively and reduce the number of deaths in
the armed conflicts.

Now jump to present day...Israel bombed a suspected Syrian Nuclear Facility. Syria denied any type of involvement in Nuclear activities. Israel
refrained from acknowledging they bombed the facility- however we are now finding out that the only reason why Israel knew what they knew was by
planting a trojan onto a Syrian notebook computer that allowed Israel to obtain important information to make up an informed decision. Any common
sense would tell you that the only purpose of that Syrian Nuclear Facility was to be used for nothing more than to advance their weaponary inventory
and share among their friends and terrorist organizations and anyone else on the black market. Obviously because of its location it was never
intended for civilian energy purposes. All it would take is one EMP device to disable a country- and we all know there are at least a handful of
nations that would love to try that because all they care about is what waits for them in the afterlife. So, tell me, with that sort of things have
been done since World War II to that have kept our Freedom? I don't know for sure, but I bet you someday, down the road, some documents will become
available to the general public that could answer your question.

Tallcool1, Veterans Day is to reflect upon, acknowledge & honor the service & sacrifice of those who served. If you served with Honor, this is your
day too. Don't let anyone try to tell you otherwise.
........

A sincere, proud & humble thank you to, & prayer for..

my fellow veterans: known & unknown. It is an honor to have served with, if not alongside, you.

those who came before us: for showing us the meaning of valor & honor when no one is watching, & paying the price for our freedom

our parents: who taught us strength, courage of conviction, personal responsibility & the importance of knowing peace with the man in the
mirror

our families: who give us the strength to carry on when at times we don't have enough within ourselves, & remind us why we do what we do, when
at times its hard to remember

our communities: who provide a hug or a shoulder to our loved ones, when we can't be there to wrap our arms around them

those who will come after us: for fighting to preserve what you will inherit, & not having let it all have been for naught.

Originally posted by Dean Goldberry
Can anyone cite a specific example of how any American military action SINCE WW2 has had anything to do with any AMERICAN'S freedom? And don't try
to use the bombings of the al Qaeda camps in Afghanistan in October, 2001 as an example, since there has been no real evidence to support the
justification for it, 9/11, as being what the government-MSM claim it is/was. Can anyone cite anything that isn't mere rhetoric, opinion or emotion
concerning American "freedoms" being achieved by its military since WW2? Let the crickets chirp... or the hollow, baseless, rhetorical bashing
begin.

I guess I would ask what you define as "military action". Every time the fleet ballistic missile submarine that I served aboard in the 80's, the
USS Stonewall Jackson, went on a deterrent patrol for 70-80 days, I consider that a "military action. My shipmates and I sacrificed our lives every
time the diving alarm sounded and we lived with the radiation from the warheads and the reactor and the pressure of the water above us to protect our
country from an attack from foreign superpowers.

American freedoms WERE protected by the deterrence of foreign attack 24/7 365 days a year.

You might hear crickets.......all I heard was the hum of the turbines 600 feet below the surface.

I Remember

Here's to us, one and all
Who heard the message and answered the call
To break away from the old mainstream and live our lives on a submarine
Sub School gave us the chance to pass the test
To declare that we were The Best of the Best.
When we left New London with orders in hand
We all headed out on different courses for distant, faraway lands.
Some went East coast some went West
But no matter where you ended up, your first boat's the best.
You reported on board not knowing what to think
But now you're known to all as a nub and a dink.

You learn about Tradition and learn about Pride,
You learn about Honor and the men who have died,
You learn about the heritage that's been passed on to you
Because now you're considered one of the crew.
You study that boat from bow to stern
From the conning tower to the bilges, it's your duty to learn
Where and what makes that boat go, how it operates and in what direction it flows
How to charge those batteries and keep them alive or how to rig the boat for dive
Draw those systems fore and aft, blow the #ters, Check the draft
These are duties that you must glean when you live your life on a submarine
When you've learned all there is to know about your boat
You show 'em you know it, by your walk through vote
You go before the Qual Board, card in hand
Where they question and grill you to beat the band
And when you think you can take no more
They tell you to wait just outside the door.
For what seems like eons, Time stands still
And when they call you in, you feel quite ill!
But they congratulate you for doing so good
And welcome you into their Brotherhood.
Right of passage declares that you must drink your "fish".
And the tacking on process is not something you wish
But you wear those dolphins on your chest with pride
Because down deep in your heart, you know you're Qualif ied.

It seems like yesterday, it seems like a dream
That I truly lived on a submarine
Most Boats are gone, a memory of time
I wonder what happened to that crew of mine?
The Old Boats that are left, are all museums
And even if you rode 'em, you have to pay admission to see 'em.
So here's to us, those that remember
Who rode the boats out in all kinds of weather
To those past, present and even the future
To those young, hardy lads who still love adventure
So let's lift our glasses and have a toast
To the memory of those daring young sailors and their undersea boats.

Just because you cared about liberating women in Afghanistan doesn't justify the occupation. I care about the war crimes going on in the congo but
the American military doesn't seem to be interested in a place where there is no oil pipeline owned by U.S companies. The French have interests there
so i guess that's their duty to intervene? Where do you get off picking and choosing which situation has more priority to intervene in? There are
many women who prefer rule under the taliban to our occuptation. Look up the documentary Rethink Afghanistan.

If a foreign power invaded American soil or the soil of an allied nation I would sign up in a heartbeat but I refuse to be a part of a war that isn't
justified. I'm no traitor. I probably care about America just as much as you do. I care enough to think critically and to dissent against unjust
foreign policy objectives.

Originally posted by Bunken Drum
Is there a conspiracy, cover up or scandal you wish to discuss OP? If its just about the patriotism, it should go to BTS. Or is this a shameless flag
hunt?

I chose Current Events because Veterans' Day is a current event. My opening post was a simple request that members remember those who serve their
nations honorably and sometimes pay the ultimate price.

We have had plenty of other members who have provided the controversial and the conspiratorial content.

As for stars and flags, I think a review of my posting history shows that these are of little concern to me, although I have been fortunate to post a
few threads and posts that met with broad approval and for that I am very grateful.

Veterans' Day will be over here where I am in about an hour. I'll pack away my patriotic avatar until next year, but my patriotism and my
appreciation for the service others never wanes.

According to Osama, if we weren't supporting and arming Israel and our troops were not in the Arabian Peninsula, 9/11 would have never happened so no
I will not serve to defeat a CIA funded organization and hunt down terrorists that wouldn't exist if it wasn't for our poor foreign policy
decisions. It's my duty as an American to defend the homeland and our allies, not to clean up for the mistakes of corrupt politicians.

If you feel that it is your duty to murder people who could potentially turn into terrorists go ahead but don't chastise me for refusal to back down
from my convictions about an unjustified occupation.

Is your notion that only veterans have a right to speak out against the wars? I don't need to see first hand the atrocities being committed in my
name to make judgments.

As Noam Chomsky says, if America and Israel stop committing acts of state terrorism the terrorisim in the middle east would be reduced significantly.
We have easily killed tens of thousands more civilians than were killed in 9/11, the trade center bombing and the embassy bombing. Every civilian we
kill is another propaganda piece used by terrorists as a recruiting tool for Afghan and Iraqi youth.

Besides, a significant number, possibly the majority of terrorists are fighting due to the occupation and not due to "hating freedom" or whatever
propaganda you have swallowed up under the Bush administration.

There is a BBC peice that shows that Al Qaeda barely existed before the occupation. Al Qaeda means the base, as in the CIA database of resistance
fighters we armed trained and funded to fight to soviets and was not a terrorist organization itself until we invaded.

And it certainly isn't the far reaching network with sleeping cells all over the world as the MSM would have you believe.

Fort Hood was a tragedy, but there is no evidence that the shooter was an Al Qaeda agent. He supposedly tried to contact Al Qaeda at one point with no
success. Believe what you want but I have significant reservations regarding the MSM. They manufacture consent for our foreign policy decisions
without regard to obective fact checking.

My father is a veteran of the Gulf War, Operation Iraqi "Freedom", and Operation Enduring "Freedom". Regardless of how I feel about the
credibility and motives behind these wars, he is truly a great and selfless man.

Originally posted by LAUGHING-CAT
The way I see it, and my contemporaries agree, we, as Americans do the things the anti-war crowd deem to be un-acceptable, because they, themselves
lack the balls to do it themselves.
Thats fine, but when abdullah comes to take your grand-daughter away because she was driving a car, ...
I did what I could. you cowards.
While you hid behind political correctness, I ate bugs.
While you defended the right of someone you grew-up 5,000 miles from their reality to beat their women, I slept in the cold.

While I watched the medic take pieces of my flesh so as to sew the pieces that were viable back together, and no aenesthetic, cause that was for the
guys that were "really" hurt, I didn't think of the traitors like you.
I thought, I love America, and I am glad I did this so someone else didn't.
You think happy talk gets you through life?
So did the Germans in 1932.

*edit* I'm going to bed because 6:00 comes quick.
even with my crap, I go to work every day, I could say put that in your pipe and smoke it, but I don't want to contribute to the delinquency...
.

[edit on 11/11/2009 by LAUGHING-CAT]

Werent you paid to do all that with army provided remuneration, health care, housing, food and other facilities including item discounts etc. You did
work for which you were paid for...come and brag about it when/if you do it to help other people or nation without asking anything in return.

Even a public toilet cleaner get's paid for his work while everyone else uses them, where's your thanks to them?

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