Because that's what we do. What's the point of spending million of dollars to find out what causes it if we're not going to try to fix it or prevent
it?

The prime suspect, as far as a cause goes, takes place during fetal development. I would imagine most parents would rather (if need be) adjust the sex
or brain chemistry of the child while still in the womb and forgo all of the suicide attempts and scissors and stuff.

Wouldn't you?

Hell yes. But until there is a "cure", you treat the symptoms. The symptoms are incorrect body chemistry and parts. Those are treatable things.

But I do agree with finding a prevention to gender dysphoria. Again, hell yes.

Ah the bathroom issue in public schools. Different beast. Still I've yet to see evidence that teachers are teaching children to make a
choice.

When you teach kids about something and 'celebrate' it you are influencing them.
There should be none of this in our schools. It's a shame schools don;t spend more time teaching kids how to celebrate hard work and achievement.

people who promote sexual reassignment surgery are collaborating with and promoting a mental disorder.

A thousand years from now, this will be an undisputed fact of reality......but today we all live in a distorted sense of reality that favors a SJW
ideology of pure insanity.

It must be hard for todays 'activists'. Their ancestors tore down virtually every unfair barrier there was, and now all that is left are the rather
insane causes like gender identity and global warming. Lord only knows what the activists of the future will come up with.

Do you understand that a psychologist has absolutely no business making a statement in a professional capacity about biology, don't you?

I mean, psychiatrists and psychologists practice soft science. They are simply not qualified to make such a judgement about biological matters,
because most individuals in that field lack knowledge of biology, except as is specifically regards their work. You also understand, I assume, that
where matters of identification of sexual or gender issues are concerned, a biologist, a geneticist, would be far better placed than any soft science,
roll neck sweater type ever is, to comment from an informed position?

I enclosed two reports yet you talk only about one.....and yet are you a professional psychiatrist and if so can you prove it?

Saying that a psychiatrist or psychologist has nothing to do with biology is so wrong... since when is mental HEALTH no longer a part of healing the
body (mind)?

You are out of your area of expertise unless you can enclose your white paper or book on subject matter.

You have only given an opinion not fact.

As did you on the word of a discredeted old fool, move on and accept he was wrong and your halfway there.
Show us your credentials first.

wow, your ignorance is showing big time...do a little research these "children have years of therapy, also anyone who goes through the surgery has to
have a lot psychiatric appointments and and many evaluations before having "surgery"

Paralysis by over-analysis has become commonplace and plays well in the PC culture. This issue, to me, is a mental disorder. One which is supported by
the acceptance brigade. No one should be chastised for this confusion, rather be given support and help. Instead they are encouraged to make life
altering decisions that will lead to irreversible emotional trauma down the line. It's like telling someone to embrace their anxiety disorder, and
telling them they are special and be proud. I don't think they are freaks, rather they have psychological issues and telling them to embrace it makes
them feel good and gives them an 'identity'.

I wonder, years down the road, what statistics will be available that correlate sexual reassignment surgery and suicide and/or substance abuse.

Exactly!

And how many young people will later realize they let "others" make these decisions for them by supporting their decisions even if being a minor.

There is a reason why we call kids minors..... they still have to learn what life is all about before cutting off a body part or adding fake parts is
not only unnatural but perverted yet there are many who support their children's decision with little to NO mental health evaluations.

Because that's what we do. What's the point of spending million of dollars to find out what causes it if we're not going to try to fix it or prevent
it?

The prime suspect, as far as a cause goes, takes place during fetal development. I would imagine most parents would rather (if need be) adjust the sex
or brain chemistry of the child while still in the womb and forgo all of the suicide attempts and scissors and stuff.

Wouldn't you?

Hell yes. But until there is a "cure", you treat the symptoms. The symptoms are incorrect body chemistry and parts. Those are treatable things.

But I do agree with finding a prevention to gender dysphoria. Again, hell yes.

The irony of it all, is that you would have to turn to people like Dr. McHugh and Ken Hamm to find funding for such an endeavor in today's political
climate... and all thanks to the LGBTQ community... who would hang you from a tree if they ever heard you say "I'm sick".

Because that's what we do. What's the point of spending million of dollars to find out what causes it if we're not going to try to fix it or prevent
it?

The prime suspect, as far as a cause goes, takes place during fetal development. I would imagine most parents would rather (if need be) adjust the sex
or brain chemistry of the child while still in the womb and forgo all of the suicide attempts and scissors and stuff.

Wouldn't you?

Hell yes. But until there is a "cure", you treat the symptoms. The symptoms are incorrect body chemistry and parts. Those are treatable things.

But I do agree with finding a prevention to gender dysphoria. Again, hell yes.

The irony of it all, is that you would have to turn to people like Dr. McHugh and Ken Hamm to find funding for such an endeavor in today's political
climate... and all thanks to the LGBTQ community... who would hang you from a tree if they ever heard you say "I'm sick".

We could try GoFundMe

Well... because I'm not sick. Not anymore.

But I understand what you are saying. The problem is that people like McHugh aren't looking for that because they understand the cause; they are
looking for that because they are driven by misconceived morals. Don't even get me started on Hamm... he believes we really somehow put two of every
animal on a boat. 6,000 years ago. Literally. That guy isn't gonna be listened to anybody with a third grade education.

What you don't understand is that all of the studies, science, and medicine involved with gender dysphoria lends to an understanding of the
cause. It's what they are trying to figure out! So supporting quacks or religious nutters isn't the quickest way to prenatally solve gender
dysphoria. Science is.

But, in the meantime, they understand enough to know that you, as a fetus, develop sexually in two different hormone baths (many but two major ones).
One for the brain, the other for the body. They don't always line up. So what do you do? Fix the body or fix the brain? If you are in the womb and
there's a way to prevent it, by all means, do it. But if it's after you are born, you fix the body, obviously. Which is why they do what they
do.

I wonder if there isn't a lot of political pressure on the scientific community to validate the claims that transgenderism/gender dysphoria is a
physical condition, rather than just psychological, and that in advance of any conclusive proof.

Overall the weight of these studies and others points strongly toward a biological basis for gender dysphoria.

But in the opening paragraph the author describes the quantity of evidence for a genetic basis to transgender identity as a "bit". There's a "bit"
of evidence? That's not proof you know, that's a "bit" of evidence that can be interpreted to support the notion that transgender identity has a
genetic component, not that it's predominately genetic/physical, but merely that it might have a genetic/physical component. Even given an
physical/genetic component it could still be largely psychological. Elaborating on the "bit" of evidence the author goes on to say that "Identical
twins are somewhat more likely than fraternal twins to both be trans. One would need to know the particulars of this identical twins vs
fraternal twins study to assign any weight to it. The numbers of twins studied would be a good start.

Male and female brains are, on average, slightly different in structure, although there is tremendous individual
variability

So besides sounding like a statement prepared by a lawyer to hedge his clients bets, it also sounds like there's overlap to me. So some men have
structures that are most often associated with women and some women have structures that are most often associated with men, not that these structural
differences are exclusive to either men or women. And what percentage of men and women have "typically" male and female structures? I need numbers,
it's curious to me that they aren't provided.

The author mentions a study conducted at the University of Barcelona that involved 42 people. . . the author reports that the study showed that "even
before treatment the brains structures of the trans people were more similar in some respects to the brains of their experienced
gender than those of their natal gender"

That's not conclusive at all, notice the "more similar" "some respects" . Why all the qualifiers? My guess is that the evidence didn't conclusively
support the premise that there is a physical/genetic component to transgender identity.

Trans people have brains that are different from males and females, a unique kind of brain,” Guillamon says. “It is simplistic to say that a
female-to-male transgender person is a female trapped in a male body. It's not because they have a male brain but a transsexual brain.” Of course,
behavior and experience shape brain anatomy, so it is impossible to say if these subtle differences are inborn.

So the differences that have been found, could have been caused by behavior and experience rather than being inborn.

In another study the reaction of males and females with gender dysphoria to "an odorous steroid" was compared to the reaction of non gender dysphoric
males and females. (Again, to what degree is this difference in reactions among non-transgender dysphoric males and females predicative of men and
women, we don't know, the author doesn't tell us) The study found that "adolescent boys and girls with gender dysphoria responded much like peers of
their experienced gender" BUT "the results were less clear with the prepubertal children."

Why "less conclusive with the prepubertal children"? One possibility is that this mindset of being transgender, this habit of thinking of oneself as
the opposite gender, effects the structure of the brain and does so increasingly the more this habit/mindset Is practiced.

This kind of study is important, says Baudewijntje Kreukels, an expert on gender dysphoria at VU University Medical Center, “because sex differences
in responding to odors cannot be influenced by training or environment.”

But of course one's response to odors can most certainly be "Influenced by training or environment"

Then a study that compared the response of gender dysphoric boys and girls to a certain clicking sound. The author claims that "Boys with gender
dysphoria responded more like typical females" BUT "girls with gender dysphoria also responded like typical females". I couldn't have come
up with a sentence structure more prone to give the impression that the girls response to the sound also tended to support a physical/genetic
component to transgenderism, an erroneous impression I believe, had I tried. Why not just say "However, gender dysphoric girls responded just like
girls"? In any case a careful parsing of the statement indicates that the author of the article is reporting that the results among gender dysphoric
girls did not support a genetic/physical component to gender dysphoria.

The evidence laid out in the article doesn't "point strongly toward a biological basis for gender dysphoria". It's a "weak" pointer as best, really
leaves open the possibility and nothing more. But I suppose there would be a significant out cry, significant social and political pressure brought
to bear, if Scientific American said so. So why bother, they've stated "between the lines" clearly enough for anyone that isn't blinded by bias,
that there isn't any conclusive proof that gender dysphoria even has a genetic or physical component, much less that its cause is predominately
physical/genetic.

I mean read the last line:

But given the variety of transgender people and the variation in the brains of men and women generally, it will be a long time, if ever, before a
doctor can do a brain scan on a child and say, “Yes, this child is trans.”

"If ever" . . . Indeed. Why not "when"? Why "If ever"?

I think that there is a lot of political, legal and social capital to be had by convincing people that "something" is genetic. It raises/elevates
that "condition" for lack of a better word, to the status of race. I think for many, that's the real motivation behind trying so hard to convince
people that gender dysphoria; and homosexuality for that matter, are genetic.

edit on 12-5-2017 by imwilliam because: spellin, removed some vulgar swear words and an unkind, (but just and accurate) observation about one
of the mods, you know, the usual

Im happy that you worked out your problems, my comment was not aimed at you or your personal experience .

My comments are aimed at those who think the psychiatrist is not qualified to deal with the topic being discussed.

But a psychiatrist did deal with it. And recommended transition. And now I'm happy.

What?

I think he is discussing how some shrink wrote the paper that is the topic of this thread who said trans people are just crazy people who need
psychiatrists (the kind like him..that will most likely just use electroshock therapy until you say you like football or something)

Way to jump to conclusions.

Let's try again....

A psychiatrist is far more qualified to have an opinion on the matter than pretty much anyone else.

But yeah keep up with petty insults and thinking you know it all.

If you determine it to be a mental health issue, then yes
would you see a psyche doctor to deal with cancer?
no..you wouldn't.
gender dysphoria is a physical condition. the manifestations are appropriating cultural and physical norms of the opposite gender.
the manifestations are not the problem, they are symptoms.
head docs deal with problems
they are out of their league.

Actually no the psychiatrist has done a medical degree and a psychol

A psychiatrist is a physician who specializes in psychiatry, the branch of
medicine devoted to the diagnosis, prevention, study, and treatment of mental disorders. Psychiatrists are medical doctors, unlike psychologists, and
must evaluate patients to determine whether their symptoms are the result of a physical illness, a combination of physical and mental ailments, or
strictly psychiatric.

Having read thru the pages of responses, several thoughts to share:
The doc may have his own religious bias, but the undeniable fact is, a person is born into a particular body. You may not like your nose, your gender,
your height, your skin color. You can spend all your energy despising yourself. Cut, carve, and inject your body, but you will never be whatever
Barbee doll or Ken doll you envision yourself to "really be". You will only become a physical facsimile of that. And you will have mutilated the
beautiful gift of a body you were born to.

Personally, I don't judge, but how about putting all that energy into just loving yourself?...as you are? If you feel like dressing like a girl, go
ahead, have fun, or dressing like a cowboy - yippee ky yay.

Well said, they don't understand that there are energies...and even those that they hold high esteem for, like some in these pseudo-medical
professions have an agenda in normalizing certain unnatural tendencies.

Keep up the good work, friend.

I was born extremely sensitive to things most are not and have expanded upon it. And have had much persecution when younger BECAUSE of it. Everyone
knows i am different. Your kind of logic will soon be swept from the planet

That is a nice hippie sentiment, but your body and your clothes are two different things, no? In the real world it matters what your body looks like.
Try going out dressed like the opposite gender from what you are, you might find that there's more to being a man or woman than clothes.

He has written six books on the subject and has 125 peers who agree with his findings.

Better read it again if you want to make a thread about it; it says he has published 125 peer-reviewed articles. There are probably a lot more than
125 peers who agree with him but that doesn't make your argument any less tired, cherry picking your scientists to believe in. There are many more who
don't agree with him. You are making an appeal to authority but inconveniently there is no single authority to appeal to.

Anyway, why are you so passionate about this? If you want to help people, why not go after tobacco companies, or booze ads, or sweatshops in the third
world, or some other do-gooder cause?

You are acting out of base disgust, or out of a desire to keep your world-view stitched together, in a world that is chaotic and not able to be pinned
into easy and singular categories, like gender.

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