March 18, 2012

Says Ta-Nehisi Coates, attacking the filmmaker for a documentary that shows poor white people in Mississippi and poor black people NYC displaying divergent attitudes toward the government. The white people want the government out of their lives, and the black people accept government intrusion that comes in the form of welfare benefits. Coates assails Pelosi for thinking that by offending "both sides," she can get away with demeaning poor people:

That a person who would use journalism to render whole geographies as cartoons, would journey to friendlier environs and pull the same vapid trick should be expected....

Since when did shitting on poor and working people become worthy of self-congratulation? When did punching down become avant-garde?

That's how Coates frames it. Now watch the video:

ADDED: I love when Bill Maher says (at 8:48):

You and I are not racists. I just gave my imaginary child's college fund to Barack Obama, and your mother is Nancy Pelosi. So of all the people in the world — we are not out to fuck black people.

That's a very crude analysis of racism! They stroke themselves with this belief that because they support the Democratic Party, they are certified non-racists. Where's the self-criticism? Isn't it at least possible that their party's policies represent a low opinion of black people, that they are paternalistic, that they take advantage of a seemingly locked in voting bloc?

115 comments:

Pelosi, irony of ironies, simply shows the result of almost 50 years of Lefty indoctrination.

They created a permanent underclass by convincing blacks they could never be equal and couldn't survive without the Demos to protect them while providing enough bread and circuses to sap them of their initiative.

And now they're trying to do it to the white middle class and working class they say they love so much.

The poor people Ta-Nehisi goes to bat for need no assistance in the demeaning department, they self-demean daily with nary an assist. Hey Ta, ever occur to you to ask ANYTHING of the poor, behaviorwise?

Yeah, I speculated on this today. Maher is condescending in his "largesse," whether his own personal or his delegation of the government as the giver of money and goods ("whatever the hell they got to offer").

It isn't just looking down at the poor. It's scorning poor whites who don't want handouts and excusing the freeloaders because they might be ex-cons.

No, Maher's treatment of the two different populations was despicable.

And Pelosi's observation that their audience "didn't laugh" never reached the right conclusion; there was no moral equivalency between the treatment of the welfare recipients and those who reject govt help.

New York WASN'T funny. It was mean and pathetic and sickening. But not a toothless one among em.

OTOH, Mississippi was HYSTERICALLY funny because the people are such YOKELS, haha. Such DOPES.

It's true that both were stereotypes but Maher goes on to extol the "truth" of the Black experience while breathtakingly belittling the "chip on the shoulder" of the White guys.

No, that discussion and the different treatments of the two populations reveal much about the liberal mindset. That's what I think.

Assuming the polling that Maher referenced was accurate, most of the Mississippians we saw would've said that Obama's a muslim and that they didn't believe in evolution and most of the New Yorkers we saw would've said Obama's not a muslim and that they did believe in evolution. And yet the New Yorkers don't seem to me to be any smarter than the Mississippians. Indeed, they seem profoundly and proudly disingenuous.

They say that Republicans are the stupid party and Democrats are the evil party. If these 'snapshots' are representative of the seedy underbelly of each party, then maybe there's something to that.

Why don't the liberals do a poll of muslims in the Middle East and ask them whether they think Obama is a muslim.

Considering that his father was a muslim, and (as I understand it) if you are born to a muslim father, muslims consider that you are a muslim, I bet easily over half the muslims in the Middle East think Obama is a muslim.

Of course, in our Western tradition you are whatever religion you decide you are, so if Obama says he's Christian, then according to our traditions, that's what he is. But I find it a little amusing that liberals like Maher hold up the fact that some Americans think Obama is a muslim as some self-evident proof of idiocy, when actually, technically, and based on his being adopted by and raised for part of his childhood by an Indonesian muslim, it is not a ridiculous belief.

Coates also believes that we can't compare American blacks to African immigrants who tend to outperform them in nearly every economic and education metric. He's an apologist for bad behavior whose lens has been too heavily ground on one side.

The filmmaker is a New York toothless intellectual if she can't tell the difference between a dollar spent on something that gives a return (i.e. defense) and a little or perhaps even no return (i.e. a dude in New York.)

Take a look at the face of the New York interviewee, when she asks if he intends to work or wants to work.

He says no, and you can visibly see his inner conscience blasting - you can see the conflict with what he knows is right - that he should work - and he's ignoring it.

And he has created the excuse for his choice (as we all do - we choose bad first then invent the excuse simultaneously or just after) - the excuse for his choice is that his ancestors built the country as slaves and he's now getting his for their labors.

What are you looking at? You're link said nothing about that, and didn't question or critique the actual poll. The author just said he didn't think we should be asking these types of questions in poll surveys.

My overwhelming take away from the piece is that Alexandra Pelosi is an incredibly stupid woman. Not for the content of the clip (with which I have no problem); but for her inane comments liberally sprinkled through the conversation like "We are losing own own people." What the hell does that mean?

Then she goes own to compare the defense budget (or some portion of it) with the line-item for food stamps....ugh.

I always end up wondering if I am in any small way helping to pay for someone's vacation time, or health benefits by clicking on this or that link. One thing I think Alexandra Pelosi had right was the extent to which the discourse or journalism has deteriorated. It's just supposedly well educated people fighting over the meaning of teeny tiny crumbs. I don't want to pay for someone's health insurance by clicking on a link and participating further.

Maher tries to draw a distinction by saying - well you didn't go to the welfare office in MS! She says, "there would be..." and then backs out and starts a new sentence. What she was going to say, I suspect, is "there would be the same types of people we saw in NY at the welfare office in MS". What's clear is that Ms. Pelosi went seeking underclass people and specifically targeted race.

MS has the highest % of black people yet she couldn't find a black person to interview? She was specifically targeting poor whites to make them look silly.

"she was targeting the poorest of the poor who almost always vote Democratic"

Really? Because of the people she showed in MS, I didn't see the poorest of the poor. I saw 5 men (in this clip anyway) and only one who was declared to be "on food stamps". Did I miss something or are you drawing conclusions based on your own prejudices?

For the record, according to Islamic Law, Obama is a Muslim. Sorry to have to say it but it's true. He's also an apostate. Probably too much nuance for the Left who wants to see things in black and white - HE'S NOT!

I went back and watched the whole MS video - she only shows one guy who "takes from the government" and that guy is clearly mentally ill. She does the Michael Moore thing where, while someone is talking, she edits in images of poverty. This makes you believe that the images are representative of the person.

"As the son of the Muslim father, Senator Obama was born a Muslim under Muslim law as it is universally understood. It makes no difference that, as Senator Obama has written, his father said he renounced his religion. Likewise, under Muslim law based on the Koran his mother’s Christian background is irrelevant."

What struck me was how Maher tried to authenticate that he and Pelosi aren't racists.

"You and I are not racists. I, after all, just gave my imaginary child’s college fund to Barack Obama and you are the daughter of Nancy Pelosi, so of all the people in the world we are not out to fuck black people.”

I've never thought Obama was a Muslim. I doubt he's a Christian, either. Being sincerely religious means believing in something greater than yourself and nothing Obama ever does indicates he's capable of such a belief.

Lord knows those Mississippi crackers are morons voting against their own interest - look what 50 years of uninterrupted Democrat rule has done for Detroit and East St Louis! What person in his right mind wouldn't want to emulate that?

There is no indication that anyone but #6 is poor and he appears mentally ill. #1 references being "willing to go broke".

Most of them say something intolerant - #1 says something about homosexuality, #2 says something about Obama being a Muslim, #4 says Obama's a "half-breed" (but not that he dislikes him for it), #5 says he doesn't much like black people and has an emblem declaring white pride and #7 uses the word "retarded".

So, out of the 8, 5 say something intolerant, 1 is mentally ill and 2 say nothing but what they believe.

This wasn't a video series about poor-vs-poor. It was a video series about some seemingly intolerant people (who we must hate for their intolerance) vs. some seemingly poor people (who we must pity to some degree).

Short take: red neck white racist trash too proud to take handouts, NY urban sophisticates have no problem living off other people's money. I would rather be governed by the white trash the the urban sophisticates.

As for the rest of the pseudo intellectual garbage expoused by Maher and Pelosi, as noted by others here, in accordance to Muslim tradition a child of a Muslim is a Muslim hence is Muslim eyes Obama is a Muslim albeit not a practicing Muslim; Libs wrong, red neck's right. As for being against intraracial marriage, perhaps if HBO poled those dazziling black urbanites, especially the woman, would they get a different result compared to the rednecks? The condecension from the both of them regarding the rednecks being against Obama because he is black ( or mullato) but ignoring the urbanites being for Obama because he is black. Being against a man because of his race equals bad but being for him because of his race equals good. They smirk about the rednecks because they believe in creationism all the while they believe AGW. They ridicule the rednecks for voting based on God ( whose existance can neither be proven or disproven) while they vote on beliefs grounded on a disproven economic phliosophy. Limbaugh at his best could not ridicule them more or better than they have ridiculed themselves.

From what I saw, I think I could get the MS guys to work pretty easily, but clearly the NYers we're not interested. Notice that she didn't ask the MS guys if they wanted a job. That's the difference, and it's another proof of why intelligence is overrated.

I was struck by that comment also. I don't know enough about the younger Pelosi to brand her as anything. so I shant. I know her mom is a life blood sucking leech on society, but I withhold judgement on the daughter.

So, I disregard 1/2 of Mahers' contention. But to pat himself on the back as not being a racist because he gave a multi-millionaire another million? Really? So all I have to do is give a minority money and I can never be considered a racist by the left again?! Hell! Sign me up...the best part is I have given to homeless people for years, decades even, so I get in retro-actively. Suck it you racist bastards! I gots' me a get outta jail free card now!!.

@Garage

I ask this in all sincerity...your posts for the last few days have been unusually contentious, snarky, and sometimes down right just non-sensical name calling. Are you all right? Is the family healthy? You usually have a different point of view than I do, but you usually make some points to consider...now, not so much.

At least Alexandra Pelosi half admitted the rednecks were not everyone she met in Mississippi. Maher ludicrously suggested they were. (One of the fascinating things in this clip is the just below the radar one-upsmanship that neither Pelosi nor Maher could resist in competition with one another. The puropose for both being, of course, to further their own interests and nothing else.)

But both of them drip contempt toward all these poor people, even while Maher makes excuses for the blacks (its own form of contempt). And the two of them seem blissfully unaware of exactly how contemptuous they are of the poor -- and how contemptuous the poor would be of them were they to pay the two of them any mind. And so they wonder, astoundingly, why they might be losing the loyalties of any of these people. I am not sure they are fast enough, but the only surprise is that they have not lost them totally.

I also found it interesting that neither Pelosi nor Maher, while seemingly well schooled in teh history of black oppression, had any notion of what poor whites had to endure in the South. It wasn't like Southern white landowners treated their white sharecroppers well, either.

I mean, the South lost the Civil War. It was defeated & occupied by a not very effective occupation government (Reconstruction). It should be no surprise that it would lag behind the North for a generation or two or three.

The MS guys were not scamming the system, they were just dumb, unemployed and poor. To miss that point demonstrates a huge difference between right and left.

The left thinks being less intelligent is a sin, and they don't think a dumb person can also be moral, except by accident, or even by mistake as they think the MS guys were.

They have more respect for a capable person who is a crook than an honest man who doesn't have the ability to take advantage of his fellow man.

They didn't care about the moral difference here or the fact that the NYers' thinking is the problem and what's bankrupting the country. They were only interested in why Democrats are't getting the rubes' votes. If both crowds were voting Democrat, they wouldn't even see a story here.

And race isn't the issue, there are white people who are capable and scamming the system , and their are Blacks who want to work, but can't find it.

If it wasn't for the attitudes, the Black guys here would be much more employable than the whites were, but attitudes and morals make all the difference and completely overrides their relative abilities. I'd hire the white stupid guy before the black lazy scammer and it has nothing to do with race, and you would do the same.

These groups were not comparable. They needed to find some toothless stupid guys in NY or some capable lazy guys in MS and then compare them. Of course then there would be no story, because race is not the problem here, just the excuse.

Isn't it at least possible that their party's policies represent a low opinion of black people,...

More than possible, but a reality. They don't think blacks, women, rednecks, or anybody but their elitist selves are capable of properly capable of governing or controlling and taking responsibility for their lives.

The Dems, who constantly rage against greed, can't understand why people vote "against their own interest," i.e. why aren't these people greedy. Dems plant the seed of greed and support greed. They have nothing against greed, as long as it works in their favor.

By definition half the people in America have IQs less than 100. It's not hard to find stupid people. If you're in line outside a welfare office or if you're sporting a stars and bars t-shirt, chances are, the interviewer can find something stupid or extreme in your views. But Maher and Pelosi are smart, and they believe that our defense budget is a haven for welfare queens. You don't have to be stupid to be stupid.....Point of order: I have some first hand knowledge of life among the white trash. Sometimes their missing teeth are caused not by poverty, but by their fear of pain and distrust of welfare mill dentists.

And they confuse honesty with stupidity. They can't understand why anyone poor would vote to make it harder to steal.

Although the left understands self-sacrifice and principle, they don't think poor people are capable of it. Nope, they're just being stupid. Especially if their principles are conservative ones.

To me, this video is incredibly damming to the left, and specifically these two in how they discuss it, but they are so dense, they can't see it. I'm sure they are both well-educated and quite smart - yep, very sharp cookies.

""... of all the people in the world we are not out to fuck black people.”--Bill Maher"

Well just look at those Blacks in the video. They are ruined for life, and their children are as well. They will never be proud contributing citizens, never advance themselves or their families beyond what waiting in line can get them. That's exactly because of the policies these two support.

They have fucked over more Black people than all the slave owners who ever lived. And it's not even close.

The Blacks who left the plantations two centuries ago were better off than the guys in that line. At least they had hope and motivation. You guys have stolen so much and now you think you can make it up to them with a check - you arrogant racist bastards!

Scott, I don't know if you think my last point was over top, but although Blacks were certainly far more oppressed 200 years ago than today, they had more intact families than today, they were starting out to build farms and businesses, and their freedom and self-respect was expanding. In short they had much to look forward to. I don't see much in the future for the guys in that line, their multiple baby mommas, or their kids. I know such people, I've seen them grow old before their time and it's not gonna pan out for them, and they don't even have the drive to fix that. They have been robbed of everything.

It's hard to imagine a more sanctimonious, self-righteous asshole than Bill Maher. Most of us would have to study, plan and rehearse to be that much of a jerk, but he's a natural Phd in liberal condescension and elitism. Somehow he thinks it's a positive reflection on himself to donate a million dollars to perpetuate a system that has kept the black man down for 50 years.

red neck white racist trash too proud to take handouts, NY urban sophisticates have no problem living off other people's money. I would rather be governed by the white trash the the urban sophisticates.

Except each resident of Mississippi takes about $5000 in federal expenditures than they pay in while New York residents pay about $5000 per capita more in tax than is returned to the state.

So Mississippi residents would be much worse off than they already are if they really put their money where their mouth is while if New York depended on itself entirely its citizens would be better off.

The Blacks who left the plantations two centuries ago were better off than the guys in that line. At least they had hope and motivation.

You really have a warped view of history, don't you? First of all, slavery ended less than 150 years ago, not 200 (the Emancipation Proclamation went into effect Jan 1, 1863--and even it only freed 3.1 of the 4 million slaves in the U.S). Second, blacks were legally second class (or lower) citizens in most of the country until the mid 1960's.

Blacks were certainly far more oppressed 200 years ago than today, they had more intact families than today

Except if the owner wanted to split up a family and sell them off individually, he was perfectly free to do so (and this practice was quite common). And we won't even mention the number of slaves who were raped by their owners.

Except each resident of Mississippi takes about $5000 in federal expenditures than they pay in while New York residents pay about $5000 per capita more in tax than is returned to the state.

There's a simple solution to that imbalance, if it bothers you so: Return as much federal spending as possible to the states. That, plus flatten the income tax and move a bunch of military bases from MS to NY.

Yea, sorry about the 200 years thing. Brain fart. I said after the civil war too, so the mistake is obvious, and not really the point.

My point is that people, and not just Blacks, have lost any shame in taking handouts, and that's is probably more damaging to a human's potential than poverty or even the oppression of racism. It's the difference between being an adult and a child.

You don't need to back off the 200 years claim, bagoh20, at least if people are willing to pay more attention to John McWhorter citing Nobel Prize-winning historical research than to Freder Frederson recycling "Uncle Tom's Cabin":

However, as classic work by Robert Fogel and Stanley Engerman has shown, despite the horrors of slavery, overall, during the pre-emancipation era, about two-thirds of enslaved families had two parents—far more than today.

Most all liberals are just like that...speak out of both sides of their mouths. They will rip the people of the south, (for instance, Maher called the Mississippi and Alabama primaries "Toothless Tuesday"), but the out of the other side of their mouth claim the high road and say they actually want to help them, while claiming the GOP wants to do nothing to help them.

The reason why Democrats are losing people is not just contained to the swell of the entitlement society; it is losing people because many even-minded independents who have voted left of center most of their lives are now beginning to see that the Democrats dont actually stand for the things they preach about. Hell, just look at our state...they wont vote for a mining bill that will bring thousands of jobs to a middle class they claim to represent because it will actually help a governor from the opposite political party.

I don't get why Freder jumps on my case for being off by 50 on a number. He's got no problem with Obamacare costs doubling before it even gets started. Now, I ain't smart, and I don't got me no Harvard degree, or Nobel Prize; I'm just a rube, hoping to someday get my Althouse Hillbilly Certificate, but I don't think I've ever made an $800 billion mistake.

Don't sweat it, Bagoh. I noticed the error too, but also knew it was tangential to your point. Freder jumped on it was because you gave him a weak point that he could hammer in the first post before going on to post two three etc. ; as appears to be his MO. He's just trying to get a rise out of you. So don't feed the troll.

The entire racial preemption made no sense. It was as if Maher ADD'd off course to talk about what he had for breakfast. Too dost-protesty if you ask me.

I watched the clip several times to try to figure out what the "single, ready to mingle" man was saying when he said "We call it money in the baaa--". Was he saying "money in the 'Bam"? I could never quite make it out.

Last time I was in Manhattan, my lefty Indian friend was eager to introduce me to her black friend. He asked me point blank if, being from the midwest, I thought blacks were lesser human beings than whites. I said I was offended that he would repeat to me such typical New York bigotry. I then asked him if he thought women were equal to men. Like our mutual female friend wasn't even there he said "Well, we both know the answer to that". There is no doubt in my mind that Democrats are MUCH more racist and sexist. but, but, but everyone knows that isn't true. right?

Freder Frederson said...red neck white racist trash too proud to take handouts, NY urban sophisticates have no problem living off other people's money. I would rather be governed by the white trash the the urban sophisticates.

Except each resident of Mississippi takes about $5000 in federal expenditures than they pay in while New York residents pay about $5000 per capita more in tax than is returned to the state.

So Mississippi residents would be much worse off than they already are if they really put their money where their mouth is while if New York depended on itself entirely its citizens would be better off.

3/18/12 2:40 PM

Freder strip out the military spending in Mississippi (because the availability of land and the willingness of the locals to want bases) then get back to us. If you are going to quote figures then get them right. And by the way no state kicks in more than it gets from the federal government, otherwise their wouldn't be a federal deficit.Also states with no income tax the residents pay a higher percentage of their income to the federal government than states that have income taxes. But that wouldn't fit in to your narrative.

"Except each resident of Mississippi takes about $5000 in federal expenditures than they pay in while New York residents pay about $5000 per capita more in tax than is returned to the state."

Each resident of NY gives 5k to the people of MS, huh? I guess you'd be shocked to learn of the "average" concept. See what happens is that the average NYer actually gives more money than the largely poor population gives, on average. To suggest that EACH person in their respective states is a net giver and taker is incorrect.

I'm still amused that people like Freder think a bigoted racial stereotype of rural white folk is acceptable.

This is what I hear from him: "nigger racist gheto-trash too proud..."

How enlightened. How tolerant.

How racist.

The only difference between usage of the terms redneck VS nigger is that one is protected by political correctness.

And if the Left really believed in the things the lecture the rest of us about, they wouldn't keep making these mistakes. Because it really should'nt take a leap of realization to see that one racial slut is just as bad an another.

At one point does a black person say, "for as unfortunate and horrible the global slave trade was, I was born in the best and most opportunistic country because of it. I don't accept what had occurred, but I accept the cards that have been dealt and I will try to make my ancestors proud for their sacrifices."

This is stupifying on so many levels that I hardly know where to begin. As Johan Goldberg once said; "It's a trifecta of stupidity!".

Imprimis: I know these people. My own family is much like them. Some of them aren't pretty, or cute, or educated, and some of them don't make a lot of sense. But you can depend on most of them to do what they say they're going to do. They'll fix your truck, plow your field, butcher your hogs, fight your war, or watch your back. They're good people.

Secundus: Why are the people in the Mississippi video exclusively male? I know for a fact that there are people of the female persuasion in Mississippi. Perhaps Alexandra didn't want to get a representative sample.

Tertius: Did one of them say something racist? I guess I missed it. The only guy that commented on race said BO wasn't black; "he's a half breed". That's true, isn't it? So what was the point of including that?

Quartius: I am amazed that Maher and Alexandra want everyone to be like them. Who do they think is going to wash their clothes, cook their food, and change the tire on their limo? Who's going to plow the damn field and grow their food? It sure won't be one of those losers!

Pentius: When it comes right down to it, what good are Alexandra and Maher? Can they actually do anything? If they can I'd be greatly surprised.

Sextius: An objective psychologist would have a field day with this video. It is rife with social pathologies from start to finish.

"And tar paper shacks and trailers dot the rural southern conservative ruled landscape. If it weren't for Democrats that toothless dude wouldn't even have food stamps."

And bombed-out houses and ruined factories litter the urban northern leftist-ruled landscape. Hey, at least you have fresh air and warmth down south (and I'm a guy who likes living up North, by the way), not to mention, cleaning up a few falling-down houses from the fields of Mississippi will be a heck of a lot easier then cleaning up the South Bronx or North Philly.

"You don't drive around rural Wisconsin much, do you?"

Or rural New York, for that matter--my wife and I went hiking last summer in Massachusetts and returned via NY, and I was getting depressed at some of the really beat-up old towns we went through.

"I guess if you had said NYC instead of Detroit, you would have just sounded ridiculous."

That depends on what part of NYC you're talking about. Midtown? Sure I'd love to spend a night there. East New York? Not so much.

Fred Fred ignores how the rest of the country uses the south for military bases. That's where the seeming disparity in balance of payments comes from. The federal government swallows up huge tracts of land in dixie, spending great gobs of our defense budget there. Our voluntary military comes mostly from dixie, strangely enough.