drdiags wrote:Thanks Throw and Pink. I was trying to find the post Hans Gruber removed. I gather there is a way to get this pm'd to me from reading that thread, if anyone happened to have the removed material?

What I had PM'd to me is posted on there, along with more from what I can tell.

I haven't posted anything on FB and I don't think I have on here since the relocation committee denied the move. I've been withholding my thoughts until/if Hansen and Co. throw in the towel. I know these guys are working some magic behind the scenes. It's been too quiet on their front and KJ sounds like a man that's really worried.

Well Hans I hope we didn't prematurely derail anything, but thanks. If the Sac group is still searching for money they obviously have over reached as well. I hope this news breaks soon. we all want to see KJ and company eating that big dish of crow with Stern having to carve up the carcass.

To Be P/C or Not P/C That is the Question..........Seahawks kick Ass !!!! Check your PM's, Thank you for everything Radish RIP My Friend. Member of the 38 club.

Two pages w/out Sacramento posters... Are they pulling a Blitzer? Come in off of the ledge, boys.

Seriously though, kills me that we won't know anything until the 15th regardless of this news reported by Hans. The fact that Hansen's been so quiet in all of this doesn't give me the impression that he's desperate by any means (contrary to consensus among Sac fans).

E.C. Laloosh wrote:Two pages w/out Sacramento posters... Are they pulling a Blitzer? Come in off of the ledge, boys.

Don't you have some salmon to smoke or something, hide the salmon, or whatever you do with salmon up there. I've been busy and tired of comments like "come in off the ledge" when Sacramento is clearly in the drivers seat right now.

E.C. Laloosh wrote:Two pages w/out Sacramento posters... Are they pulling a Blitzer? Come in off of the ledge, boys.

Don't you have some salmon to smoke or something, hide the salmon, or whatever you do with salmon up there. I've been busy and tired of comments like "come in off the ledge" when Sacramento is clearly in the drivers seat right now.

Salmon's delicious. I love chowing down on a piece of smoked salmon while drinking a cup of joe and listening to old school grunge music.

E.C. Laloosh wrote:Two pages w/out Sacramento posters... Are they pulling a Blitzer? Come in off of the ledge, boys.

Don't you have some salmon to smoke or something, hide the salmon, or whatever you do with salmon up there. I've been busy and tired of comments like "come in off the ledge" when Sacramento is clearly in the drivers seat right now.

E.C. Laloosh wrote:Two pages w/out Sacramento posters... Are they pulling a Blitzer? Come in off of the ledge, boys.

Don't you have some salmon to smoke or something, hide the salmon, or whatever you do with salmon up there. I've been busy and tired of comments like "come in off the ledge" when Sacramento is clearly in the drivers seat right now.

Sacramento is in the driver's seat? How do you figure?

At this point, all the NBA can do is loudly proclaim that they will refuse to allow the team to be relocated.

What the NBA can not legally do:1) Force the Maloofs to sell to anyone, much less the Sacramento group2) Refuse to allow the Maloofs to sell (barring a clear conflict of interest)3) Set any artificial barriers on any sales agreement or artifically manipulate the valuation of a member franchise

What you Sacramento folks don't seem to get is that a sales agreement between the Maloofs and the Hansen group has already been signed, sealed and delivered. Funds have already been deposited to escrow. To both the seller (Maloofs) and the purchaser (Hansen/Ballmer group), an agreement has already been reached reflecting the true market value of the franchise.

After this sale was negotiated and the deal closed, the NBA interfered on behalf of a secondary group of buyers (whom I will refer to as the Sacramento Group). The NBA negotiated the terms of an agreement outside of the existing transaction and without the consent or knowledge of the Maloofs (seller). The value of this deal is actually lower than the existing negotiated sale.

At this point, the NBA is blindly hoping that the Hansen/Ballmer group will walk away from their existing purchase agreement, surrendering the deposit and releasing any interest in the Kings. That is the reason the NBA voted first to prohibit the relocation of the Kings franchise. That is their ace and they have played it. The NBA hopes that if the Ballmer group realizes they won't be able to move the Kings, then they will just drop the sale.

However, the NBA can not legally interfere with the actual sale without clearly violating the Sherman Act. The problem for the NBA is that their negotation with a third potential buyer (Sacramento Group) is just smoke and mirrors. It has no legal teeth and means nothing other than, "Hey, if we refuse to let you sell to Hansen, then there's this other deal over here waiting for you."

Unless the NBA can prove in court that the existing Hansen/Ballmer offer represents a natural conflict of interest for the NBA, they have no legal justification to reject the sale. Doing so would artificially manipulate the market for the member franchise, to the detriment of both the seller and purchaser as agreed on the "fair market", and would be in violation of the Sherman Act. There is specific language in the Sherman Act that prevents the price fixing of franchises. If the NBA steps in and interferes with the sale, forcing the seller to accept a lower offer, this would be a textbook case of market manipulation as prohibited by the Sherman Act. And there are currently a cadre of very successful, very intelligent attorneys preparing for this argument right now. It should upset you Sacramento fans to learn that the Maloofs are rumored to be on this side of the fight.

All the Sacramento Group can hope for at this point is that the Maloofs will tire of the fight and sign a deal that is unfavorable to them. The moment they accept that deal, then the Hansen/Ballmer group would have a much tougher fight in court. At that point, the Maloofs could argue that the deal they accepted was set by the market and whatever terms were included made it an equal offer.

However, that has not happened, and many sources close to the fight (including the Maloofs) are publicly saying that it won't happen.

If the NBA can't sweet-talk the Maloofs into selling to the Sacramento Group, then the Hansen/Ballmer group will continue their purchase of the Kings and the fight will continue. Again, the NBA is fully aware they can not stop the purchase because they can not prove any actual conflict of interest. Again, many sources close to the deal (including Hansen himself) are stating that the Hansen group has gone quiet because he fully intends to purchase the Kings and move forward. That is hardly a win for Sacramento.

Once Hansen purchases the Kings, anything can happen. But if you're foolish enough to believe that Sacramento is in the driver seat, then you must not be paying attention. The Maloofs have already stated that they will not accept the Sacramento offer, and that in fact, no offer from Sacramento will ever be possible.

But please, do keep entertaining me with your hope. It's almost cute in a sad kind of way.

E.C. Laloosh wrote:Two pages w/out Sacramento posters... Are they pulling a Blitzer? Come in off of the ledge, boys.

Don't you have some salmon to smoke or something, hide the salmon, or whatever you do with salmon up there. I've been busy and tired of comments like "come in off the ledge" when Sacramento is clearly in the drivers seat right now.

Sacramento is in the driver's seat? How do you figure?

At this point, all the NBA can do is loudly proclaim that they will refuse to allow the team to be relocated.

What the NBA can not legally do:1) Force the Maloofs to sell to anyone, much less the Sacramento group2) Refuse to allow the Maloofs to sell (barring a clear conflict of interest)3) Set any artificial barriers on any sales agreement or artifically manipulate the valuation of a member franchise

What you Sacramento folks don't seem to get is that a sales agreement between the Maloofs and the Hansen group has already been signed, sealed and delivered. Funds have already been deposited to escrow. To both the seller (Maloofs) and the purchaser (Hansen/Ballmer group), an agreement has already been reached reflecting the true market value of the franchise.

After this sale was negotiated and the deal closed, the NBA interfered on behalf of a secondary group of buyers (whom I will refer to as the Sacramento Group). The NBA negotiated the terms of an agreement outside of the existing transaction and without the consent or knowledge of the Maloofs (seller). The value of this deal is actually lower than the existing negotiated sale.

At this point, the NBA is blindly hoping that the Hansen/Ballmer group will walk away from their existing purchase agreement, surrendering the deposit and releasing any interest in the Kings. That is the reason the NBA voted first to prohibit the relocation of the Kings franchise. That is their ace and they have played it. The NBA hopes that if the Ballmer group realizes they won't be able to move the Kings, then they will just drop the sale.

However, the NBA can not legally interfere with the actual sale without clearly violating the Sherman Act. The problem for the NBA is that their negotation with a third potential buyer (Sacramento Group) is just smoke and mirrors. It has no legal teeth and means nothing other than, "Hey, if we refuse to let you sell to Hansen, then there's this other deal over here waiting for you."

Unless the NBA can prove in court that the existing Hansen/Ballmer offer represents a natural conflict of interest for the NBA, they have no legal justification to reject the sale. Doing so would artificially manipulate the market for the member franchise, to the detriment of both the seller and purchaser as agreed on the "fair market", and would be in violation of the Sherman Act. There is specific language in the Sherman Act that prevents the price fixing of franchises. If the NBA steps in and interferes with the sale, forcing the seller to accept a lower offer, this would be a textbook case of market manipulation as prohibited by the Sherman Act. And there are currently a cadre of very successful, very intelligent attorneys preparing for this argument right now. It should upset you Sacramento fans to learn that the Maloofs are rumored to be on this side of the fight.

All the Sacramento Group can hope for at this point is that the Maloofs will tire of the fight and sign a deal that is unfavorable to them. The moment they accept that deal, then the Hansen/Ballmer group would have a much tougher fight in court. At that point, the Maloofs could argue that the deal they accepted was set by the market and whatever terms were included made it an equal offer.

However, that has not happened, and many sources close to the fight (including the Maloofs) are publicly saying that it won't happen.

If the NBA can't sweet-talk the Maloofs into selling to the Sacramento Group, then the Hansen/Ballmer group will continue their purchase of the Kings and the fight will continue. Again, the NBA is fully aware they can not stop the purchase because they can not prove any actual conflict of interest. Again, many sources close to the deal (including Hansen himself) are stating that the Hansen group has gone quiet because he fully intends to purchase the Kings and move forward. That is hardly a win for Sacramento.

Once Hansen purchases the Kings, anything can happen. But if you're foolish enough to believe that Sacramento is in the driver seat, then you must not be paying attention. The Maloofs have already stated that they will not accept the Sacramento offer, and that in fact, no offer from Sacramento will ever be possible.

But please, do keep entertaining me with your hope. It's almost cute in a sad kind of way.

You know you're in trouble when you have to resort to legal arguments and potential lawsuits as your argument for why you are in the driver's seat. The NBA wants the Kings in Sacramento. Do you really think you will beat the NBA? And even if you did win through the courts, embarrassing the NBA wouldn't be a good start for your franchise.

Oh, and your salmon is damn good. I was being serious when I said you should go make more of it instead of wasting your time here.

salamander wrote:You know you're in trouble when you have to resort to legal arguments and potential lawsuits as your argument for why you are in the driver's seat. The NBA wants the Kings in Sacramento. Do you really think you will beat the NBA? And even if you did win through the courts, embarrassing the NBA wouldn't be a good start for your franchise.

Oh, and your salmon is damn good. I was being serious when I said you should go make more of it instead of wasting your time here.

The NBA doesn't have a choice but to accept the sale to Hansen

Also the NBA embarrassed itself years ago, especially when they moved Vancouver to Memphis and uprooted a great franchise in the Sonics to go to a severly worse market in OKC

Stern is the embarrassment and putting his ass on the spot in court and destroying him in every way is every Sonics fan delight

salamander wrote:You know you're in trouble when you have to resort to legal arguments and potential lawsuits as your argument for why you are in the driver's seat. The NBA wants the Kings in Sacramento. Do you really think you will beat the NBA? And even if you did win through the courts, embarrassing the NBA wouldn't be a good start for your franchise.

Oh, and your salmon is damn good. I was being serious when I said you should go make more of it instead of wasting your time here.

Yeah, legal arguments are pretty pathetic... until you have to watch the guy w/ the legal argument walk away with a smile on his face, whistling and twirling keys to the moving truck for his fancy new NBA basketball franchise.

salamander wrote:You know you're in trouble when you have to resort to legal arguments and potential lawsuits as your argument for why you are in the driver's seat. The NBA wants the Kings in Sacramento. Do you really think you will beat the NBA? And even if you did win through the courts, embarrassing the NBA wouldn't be a good start for your franchise.

Oh, and your salmon is damn good. I was being serious when I said you should go make more of it instead of wasting your time here.

salamander wrote:You know you're in trouble when you have to resort to legal arguments and potential lawsuits as your argument for why you are in the driver's seat. The NBA wants the Kings in Sacramento. Do you really think you will beat the NBA? And even if you did win through the courts, embarrassing the NBA wouldn't be a good start for your franchise.

Oh, and your salmon is damn good. I was being serious when I said you should go make more of it instead of wasting your time here.

You're right. Sacramento is in the driver's seat.

The correct image would have the driver holding Stern's hand, who is walking him in the direction he's supposed to drive.

salamander wrote:You know you're in trouble when you have to resort to legal arguments and potential lawsuits as your argument for why you are in the driver's seat. The NBA wants the Kings in Sacramento. Do you really think you will beat the NBA? And even if you did win through the courts, embarrassing the NBA wouldn't be a good start for your franchise.

Oh, and your salmon is damn good. I was being serious when I said you should go make more of it instead of wasting your time here.

I'd rather have an ownership group that is threatening to sue if the NBA tries to block an existing sales agreement with a seller who has openly stated he wants to sell to me, than an ownership group waving around an inferior offer they pulled out of thin air while the seller openly says he wants nothing to do with you.

News flash: It doesn't matter what the NBA wants. What does the NBA have to do with the sale of that team? NOTHING. They have zero power over who buys or sells that team other than voting on a conflict of interest.

What matters is what the Maloofs want. They're the ones who ultimately decide who does or doesn't buy the Kings. The NBA knows that, which is why they're trying to block a relocation now, before the sale goes through. It's the only thing the NBA can legally do to try to block a sale. They're hoping two billionaires will tuck tail and run. Generally, that is not how billionaires become billionaires, but you know... that's really all they've got in the quiver.

Being in the driver's seat means you are setting the tone, you are the one in control.

Right now, it is Hansen who is in control. Hansen is the one with a binding sale agreement, in writing, signed by the seller, with payment made in full. All Hansen has to do is kick back and follow through with the purchase. Let the NBA fight it and hang themselves with their own rope.

Sacramento is the third wheel, waving an inferior offer at the media as if that means anything to anyone. Apparently, nobody has bothered to explain to them that without the Maloofs signatures, it means less than the paper it's written on.

The seller (Maloofs) just told your newspaper there was no way they would ever accept an offer from Sacramento and that an arena deal in Sacramento was impossible. Only the NBA is interested in your arena plan, but you need more than that, you need the owner of the Kings to accept it. And both owners (current and upcoming) have both stated they have no interest in the Sacramento arena plan. How is that being in the driver's seat? I must be missing something.

Literally the only thing the NBA can do for Sacramento is force Hansen to stay in the current arena. Meanwhile, Hansen can just sit on the team, force them to play in the existing arena, and wait it out. He can do exactly what Clay Bennett did here if he wanted to be a dick about it. Just trade away the good players, and let them lose. Stop maintaining the arena, and wait it out. Eventually, the NBA will capitulate and let Hansen move wherever he wants because ultimately, what is best for the NBA is to have owners investing in a watchable product, playing in arenas that will generate revenue for the NBA.

Eventually, the NBA will stop caring about how the arena is financed. They'll feel the pain in their wallet and Hansen will have his way. Literally the only people who feel pain over all this mess will be Sacramento. Do I think that's fair? Nope. But that's the fight the NBA has chosen.

So while you claim to be in the driver's seat, I'd see it more as being stuck in the electric chair while the governor and warden fight over when to pull the switch.

Smelly McUgly wrote:So, Mr. Gruber, should I still be happy or what? I have been positive throughout this whole thing. I should still be positive, right?

I don't need any details, just a "Yes, you should feel great" or "No, things are worse, we're losing him, doctor!"

HansGruber wrote:I've been asked to stop sharing specifics but I just heard some news that should make Sonics fans thrilled.

Just know this: The Ballmer Hansen team is for real, they have Stern in a corner right now, there is no legal way to deny the Hansen sale, and as we speak, plans are being put into effect.

The irony of all this is that I hate the NBA, have never really cared about the Sonics, yet for the first time in my life, I got to hear some breaking news that few are privy to. Always wished I could get a secret Seahawks scoop but never got one. I'm a nobody. But sitting here right now bouncing in my seat, excited for you Sonics fans, and wish I could share. Keep the faith. Shit is about to get real.

salamander wrote:You know you're in trouble when you have to resort to legal arguments and potential lawsuits as your argument for why you are in the driver's seat. The NBA wants the Kings in Sacramento. Do you really think you will beat the NBA? And even if you did win through the courts, embarrassing the NBA wouldn't be a good start for your franchise.

Oh, and your salmon is damn good. I was being serious when I said you should go make more of it instead of wasting your time here.

I'd rather have an ownership group that is threatening to sue if the NBA tries to block an existing sales agreement with a seller who has openly stated he wants to sell to me, than an ownership group waving around an inferior offer they pulled out of thin air while the seller openly says he wants nothing to do with you.

News flash: It doesn't matter what the NBA wants. What does the NBA have to do with the sale of that team? NOTHING. They have zero power over who buys or sells that team other than voting on a conflict of interest.

What matters is what the Maloofs want. They're the ones who ultimately decide who does or doesn't buy the Kings. The NBA knows that, which is why they're trying to block a relocation now, before the sale goes through. It's the only thing the NBA can legally do to try to block a sale. They're hoping two billionaires will tuck tail and run. Generally, that is not how billionaires become billionaires, but you know... that's really all they've got in the quiver.

Being in the driver's seat means you are setting the tone, you are the one in control.

Right now, it is Hansen who is in control. Hansen is the one with a binding sale agreement, in writing, signed by the seller, with payment made in full. All Hansen has to do is kick back and follow through with the purchase. Let the NBA fight it and hang themselves with their own rope.

Sacramento is the third wheel, waving an inferior offer at the media as if that means anything to anyone. Apparently, nobody has bothered to explain to them that without the Maloofs signatures, it means less than the paper it's written on.

The seller (Maloofs) just told your newspaper there was no way they would ever accept an offer from Sacramento and that an arena deal in Sacramento was impossible. Only the NBA is interested in your arena plan, but you need more than that, you need the owner of the Kings to accept it. And both owners (current and upcoming) have both stated they have no interest in the Sacramento arena plan. How is that being in the driver's seat? I must be missing something.

Literally the only thing the NBA can do for Sacramento is force Hansen to stay in the current arena. Meanwhile, Hansen can just sit on the team, force them to play in the existing arena, and wait it out. He can do exactly what Clay Bennett did here if he wanted to be a dick about it. Just trade away the good players, and let them lose. Stop maintaining the arena, and wait it out. Eventually, the NBA will capitulate and let Hansen move wherever he wants because ultimately, what is best for the NBA is to have owners investing in a watchable product, playing in arenas that will generate revenue for the NBA.

Eventually, the NBA will stop caring about how the arena is financed. They'll feel the pain in their wallet and Hansen will have his way. Literally the only people who feel pain over all this mess will be Sacramento. Do I think that's fair? Nope. But that's the fight the NBA has chosen.

So while you claim to be in the driver's seat, I'd see it more as being stuck in the electric chair while the governor and warden fight over when to pull the switch.

you are too for too Sir. let me know if you need some baby powder for that hand because you are pimp slap in the crap out of them.

Smelly McUgly wrote:So, Mr. Gruber, should I still be happy or what? I have been positive throughout this whole thing. I should still be positive, right?

I don't need any details, just a "Yes, you should feel great" or "No, things are worse, we're losing him, doctor!"

HansGruber wrote:I've been asked to stop sharing specifics but I just heard some news that should make Sonics fans thrilled.

Just know this: The Ballmer Hansen team is for real, they have Stern in a corner right now, there is no legal way to deny the Hansen sale, and as we speak, plans are being put into effect.

The irony of all this is that I hate the NBA, have never really cared about the Sonics, yet for the first time in my life, I got to hear some breaking news that few are privy to. Always wished I could get a secret Seahawks scoop but never got one. I'm a nobody. But sitting here right now bouncing in my seat, excited for you Sonics fans, and wish I could share. Keep the faith. Shit is about to get real.

Yeah, but now we're getting stuff like this:

Brock Huard ‏@BrockESPN 10s

NBA will find path to not destroy relationship w/Ballmer & make Hansen whole“@_MParker: @BrockESPN What’s your gut feeling on what it means?

"If given the opportunity without fear of incarceration, I would honestly beat the living **** out of Jerry Rice."

One of the things I don't understand is how can the NBA stop the team from being sold and then moved. Remember when the Seahawks were headed to LA? They even had practices down there. The Oakland Raiders did move to LA. A suit was filed based on eminent Domain and was lost. The NFL had to pay Davis millions.