Much as been made about Jeff Ireland's poor job as a general manager. But let's take a look at where this franchise was from a draft perspective before Ireland assume full responsibility of the draft and after Shula retired.

The Jimmy Johnson Days

While Jimmy was the head coach of the Dolphins, he selected 44 players. Here is a list.

Out of those 35, 2 played in a Pro Bowl (Yeremiah Bell, Chris Chambers) - 5.7% success rate. Wannstedt drafted two players in the first round. One was a complete bust (Jamar Fletcher) and the other one was serviceable (Vernon Carey).

Out of those 35, 8 were serviceable, 22.8% success rate.

Out of those 35, 26 were busts or contributed very little to the Dolphins. 74% failure.

The Nick Saban Days

Nick Saban selected 11 draft picks during his short tenure with the Dolphins. Here is a list:

His two first round picks were Jason Allen (bust) and Ronnie Brown (decent career with the Dolphins). Ronnie Brown made 1 Pro Bowl. No other player made a Pro Bowl from these draft classes.

4 players in these draft classes turned out to be serviceable (Ronnie Brown, Matt Roth, Channing Crowder, Travis Daniels). But none of them turned out to be anything special over the long haul. Saban's second draft was a complete failure.

63% of Saban's picks were busts or contributed very little.

The Randy Mueller Days

Randy Mueller was the GM of the Dolphins during Cam Cameron's tenure as head coach. For a long time, the Dolphins had a Head Coach calling all the shots and decided to move to a more divided approach in which the GM and Coach were at the same level. Here is what that 2007 draft yielded.

1 Pro Bowler yielded in Paul Soliai. Samson Satele didn't last long with the Dolphins, although he's had a long NFL career, playing for Oakland and Indianapolis. Brandon Fields has been a top punter, but not much else came from this draft class. Success rate of 18%. Failure rate of 63%. Ted Ginn was a bust with the Dolphins. John Beck was a bust instead of the QB of the future.

The Jeff Ireland Days

I always put an asterisk when I say the Jeff Ireland days, because Bill Parcells actually had final say on personnel moves from 2008 to 2010. Additionally, it is too early to judge some of his picks as typically you want to wait 3 years before doing so.

Here is a list of the players drafted under Ireland's watch, excluding players selected in 2012 and 2013:

Synopsis: As much criticism as Jeff Ireland receives for this drafts, he has had a higher success rate than any other person selecting players post-Shula. Also, remembering Shula's last few years, he probably has a higher success rate than even Shula did during that time.

Jeff Ireland gets a lot of criticism, some of it probably deserved. But the results he has yielded from a draft perspective seem to be better than anything else we've seen in a while. He hasn't missed on 1st round picks, even if they haven't turned into elite players and he's hit on a few late round picks where previous GMs missed on them way too often. Yes, he has had some ugly misses like Pat White and Chad Henne, and hindsight being 20/20, we'd all take Matt Ryan over Jake Long now. But if you look at where this team was headed during the Wannstedt years and where it culminated with in 2007, this was a roster bereft of talent. Now, it is a roster with enough talent to compete for the playoffs.

This is not an argument for keeping Jeff Ireland around. Just a reminder of where this franchise has come from to where it is from a talent evaluation perspective.

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Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:43 pm

jammer

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Re: A Look at Dolphins Draft History Post Shula

Nice research.

I'm not sure how badly I want Ireland to stay, but I will continue to add the note that in 2008 it has been said he argued for Miami to take Matt Ryan and not Jake Long.

If he is fired but in a year or two the talent he selected blossoms then you have to wonder if his name won't be kicked around like Pioli's is now.

That research is alot better than those drafts. While statistically Ireland might be better than his predecessors, you can see the direct correlation from the drafts to our lack of success.Ive heard of going into a season being a lame duck coach , never being a lame duck team.

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Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:19 pm

rodneyfaile

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Re: A Look at Dolphins Draft History Post Shula

Jimmy Johnson was 36-28 in the regular season, and 2-3 in the playoffs while with the Dolphins.

Dave Wannstedt was 42-31 in the regular season, and 1-2 in the playoffs while with the Dolphins. The Dolphins won the AFC East in 2000 under DW.

Nick Saban was 15-17 in the regular season, and no playoff games while with the Dolphins.

Randy Mueller was around for the 1-15 season. We do not speak of it any further.

The Jeff Ireland years of 2008-2012 total up to 31-33 for the regular season, and 0-1 in the playoffs. The Dolphins won the AFC East in 2008.

---------------

I guess the only thing that I would point out is that SOMEBODY was contributing during those winning seasons and playoff games with Jimmy and Wannstedt. What did those guys Ireland drafted "contribute" to? A losing record?

Maybe the fact that coaches allow 50% of draft picks to be contributors has watered the team down. Maybe some of the needed to be busts. Their "contributions" haven't led to us having a good team.

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Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:40 pm

Rich

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Re: A Look at Dolphins Draft History Post Shula

FINesse wrote:

That research is alot better than those drafts. While statistically Ireland might be better than his predecessors, you can see the direct correlation from the drafts to our lack of success.Ive heard of going into a season being a lame duck coach , never being a lame duck team.

With so many players who come here after doing well and suck, or suck here and do good elsewhere, I think coaching and player development is a far bigger problem than talent acquisition.

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Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:52 pm

Rich

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Re: A Look at Dolphins Draft History Post Shula

rodneyfaile wrote:

Jimmy Johnson was 36-28 in the regular season, and 2-3 in the playoffs while with the Dolphins.

Dave Wannstedt was 42-31 in the regular season, and 1-2 in the playoffs while with the Dolphins. The Dolphins won the AFC East in 2000 under DW.

Nick Saban was 15-17 in the regular season, and no playoff games while with the Dolphins.

Randy Mueller was around for the 1-15 season. We do not speak of it any further.

The Jeff Ireland years of 2008-2012 total up to 31-33 for the regular season, and 0-1 in the playoffs. The Dolphins won the AFC East in 2008.

---------------

I guess the only thing that I would point out is that SOMEBODY was contributing during those winning seasons and playoff games with Jimmy and Wannstedt. What did those guys Ireland drafted "contribute" to? A losing record?

Maybe the fact that coaches allow 50% of draft picks to be contributors has watered the team down. Maybe some of the needed to be busts. Their "contributions" haven't led to us having a good team.

Jimmy had Marino. Wannstedr inherited the defense Jimmy built with Taylor, Thomas, Madison and Surtain.

But how did Wannstedt do in his last season, once his fingerprints were all over the team?

You're not distinguishing the forest from the trees.

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Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:54 pm

rodneyfaile

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Re: A Look at Dolphins Draft History Post Shula

Rich wrote:

With so many players who come here after doing well and suck, or suck here and do good elsewhere, I think coaching and player development is a far bigger problem than talent acquisition.

That is for sure.

No wonder Ireland's draft picks go on to contribute on this team. Someone has to play, and they don't seem to be able to get anything out of players acquired in FA.

Maybe Ross needs to let Ireland build the coaching staff as well. It doesn't seem like they are on the same page. I get the feeling Ross is meddling and in over his head. Better he should leave football decisions to his GM.

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Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:57 pm

rodneyfaile

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Re: A Look at Dolphins Draft History Post Shula

Rich wrote:

rodneyfaile wrote:

Jimmy Johnson was 36-28 in the regular season, and 2-3 in the playoffs while with the Dolphins.

Dave Wannstedt was 42-31 in the regular season, and 1-2 in the playoffs while with the Dolphins. The Dolphins won the AFC East in 2000 under DW.

Nick Saban was 15-17 in the regular season, and no playoff games while with the Dolphins.

Randy Mueller was around for the 1-15 season. We do not speak of it any further.

The Jeff Ireland years of 2008-2012 total up to 31-33 for the regular season, and 0-1 in the playoffs. The Dolphins won the AFC East in 2008.

---------------

I guess the only thing that I would point out is that SOMEBODY was contributing during those winning seasons and playoff games with Jimmy and Wannstedt. What did those guys Ireland drafted "contribute" to? A losing record?

Maybe the fact that coaches allow 50% of draft picks to be contributors has watered the team down. Maybe some of the needed to be busts. Their "contributions" haven't led to us having a good team.

Jimmy had Marino. Wannstedr inherited the defense Jimmy built with Taylor, Thomas, Madison and Surtain.

But how did Wannstedt do in his last season, once his fingerprints were all over the team?

You're not distinguishing the forest from the trees.

Exactly. Those teams were more talented, and thus harder for a rookie to become a "contributor."

Ricky Williams drama had a lot to do with that poor 2004 season.

I see your forest and trees. A probowler is a probowler, but when it comes to "contributor," I think you have to factor in what they "contributed" to. What is/was the state of the Dolphins when they reached the level of "contributor?"

I think those previous teams were a lot tougher for a rookie to "contribute" on. I think a draft pick would have a much easier time making the squad on our recent teams.

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Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:10 pm

bobby0112

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Re: A Look at Dolphins Draft History Post Shula

rodneyfaile wrote:

Rich wrote:

Ricky Williams drama had a lot to do with that poor 2004 season.

Wannstedt traded a 1st round pick in 2002 and a conditional pick which became a 2003 1st round pick for Ricky Williams.

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Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:34 pm

Dphins4me

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Re: A Look at Dolphins Draft History Post Shula

Shula pretty much sucked at drafting.

Outside Marino & he fell into his lap. He struggled with doing it.

This is not saying he did not have his hits. Webb & McDuffie & Bowens.

The biggest difference between Ireland and Johnson... Johnson's team was already good when he got it! It's a lot harder for people to shine when everyone else is good. Irleand's teams sucked and thus easier for an average player to shine out. It's nice that he's drafting "so much talent" on the current roster, but what did that get us? Not a darn thing. If they didn't net a darn thing, are they really talent? Ronnie Brown is a complete flop since he left the Dolphins FYI. On a real team with real RB's he can't get on the field. Every single QB Miami has drafted in those years has been nothing short of disgusting save Tannehill who could very well end up on that list if he doesn't perform next season. And if you want to pin this all on the coaches, I'll fire right back and say who hires the coaches?!? Goodbye Jeff.

Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:00 pm

Rich

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Re: A Look at Dolphins Draft History Post Shula

rodneyfaile wrote:

What is/was the state of the Dolphins when they reached the level of "contributor?"

There is a flip side to that coin. What type of team did Jimmy inherit? What type of team did Wannstedt inherit?

Jimmy inherited a perennial playoff team with a franchise QB.

Wannstedt inherited a top 5 defense.

Ireland/Parcells inherited a 1-15 team that was the worst in franchise history and one of the worst in NFL history.

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Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:14 pm

rodneyfaile

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Re: A Look at Dolphins Draft History Post Shula

Rich wrote:

rodneyfaile wrote:

What is/was the state of the Dolphins when they reached the level of "contributor?"

There is a flip side to that coin. What type of team did Jimmy inherit? What type of team did Wannstedt inherit?

Jimmy inherited a perennial playoff team with a franchise QB.

Wannstedt inherited a top 5 defense.

Ireland/Parcells inherited a 1-15 team that was the worst in franchise history and one of the worst in NFL history.

I agree, and that is the variable to why a "contributor" is too broad of a classification.

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Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:32 pm

NFLJunkie

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Re: A Look at Dolphins Draft History Post Shula

I'd only say that "success with the Dolphins" is the key to your numbers. Saban's list still includes two players still contributing on other teams which would up his overall success rate.

Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:34 pm

Rich

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Re: A Look at Dolphins Draft History Post Shula

rodneyfaile wrote:

Rich wrote:

rodneyfaile wrote:

What is/was the state of the Dolphins when they reached the level of "contributor?"

There is a flip side to that coin. What type of team did Jimmy inherit? What type of team did Wannstedt inherit?

Jimmy inherited a perennial playoff team with a franchise QB.

Wannstedt inherited a top 5 defense.

Ireland/Parcells inherited a 1-15 team that was the worst in franchise history and one of the worst in NFL history.

I agree, and that is the variable to why a "contributor" is too broad of a classification.

Maybe to you.

The fact is... this team is keeping more of Ireland's drafted players over the long run than it did for all previous personnel men.

You cited JJ and Wanny's records as an argument.... I simply countered that argument.

Your numbers are skewed and really shouldn't say "contributor. Maybe "still in the NFL" would be a better marker of talent. It is one thing to select a player. It is another to pay to keep him when his contract is up. Miami failed to make the playoffs this year because veteran players were let go who could've helped this team.

Your numbers are skewed and really shouldn't say "contributor. Maybe "still in the NFL" would be a better marker of talent. It is one thing to select a player. It is another to pay to keep him when his contract is up. Miami failed to make the playoffs this year because veteran players were let go who could've helped this team.

Chad Henne is still in the NFL and I didn't count him amongst the contributors.

So how do you know my numbers are skewed if you haven't really taken the time to dig deeper?

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Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:55 pm

rodneyfaile

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Re: A Look at Dolphins Draft History Post Shula

Rich wrote:

The fact is... this team is keeping more of Ireland's drafted players over the long run than it did for all previous personnel men.

Take a look at who they have gotten rid of, the current state of the team, and tell me if that is a good thing.

Sure they "contribute" ... to being bad.

Making the roster of a bad team gets you a gold star from Rich.

Yay! Contributors!

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Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:57 pm

Rich

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Re: A Look at Dolphins Draft History Post Shula

rodneyfaile wrote:

Rich wrote:

The fact is... this team is keeping more of Ireland's drafted players over the long run than it did for all previous personnel men.

Take a look at who they have gotten rid of, the current state of the team, and tell me if that is a good thing.

I've seen enough of you around here to know you take everything personally and care more about winning arguments than arriving at correct conclusions. It's pointless talking to you when you reach that point.

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Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:31 pm

Rich

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Re: A Look at Dolphins Draft History Post Shula

rodneyfaile wrote:

I've seen enough of you around here to know you take everything personally and care more about winning arguments than arriving at correct conclusions. It's pointless talking to you when you reach that point.

Throughout the franchise's worst 5 year stretch in history, coaches, players, all sorts of personnel came and left. The only constant through the entire crap show was Ireland, anyone who defends him, defends mediocrity.

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Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:32 pm

Dphins4me

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Re: A Look at Dolphins Draft History Post Shula

Rich wrote:

I don't give a rats butt if they contribute elsewhere. Those guys were finding personnel for the Dolphins, not for the NFL.

Maybe, but when looking it proves NFL talent was drafted. Just not properly coached or given up on to quickly.

Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:49 pm

swerve13

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Re: A Look at Dolphins Draft History Post Shula

Big Dave wrote:

Good info, Rich.

I've always been on the fence about Ireland. I still am.

I'm pretty sure that I would like to see Philben gone.

I really didnt think he was the problem. I thought he was a pretty solid drafter. Especially compared to the awful GM's we've had through here.

Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:31 am

Rich

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Re: A Look at Dolphins Draft History Post Shula

AFCMiamiEast wrote:

Throughout the franchise's worst 5 year stretch in history, coaches, players, all sorts of personnel came and left.

From 2003 to 2007, the Dolphins went 30-50, including the worst season in franchise history.

From 2008 to 2013, the Dolphins went 46-50. And there have only been two head coaches during that period.

So I am confused as to what 5 year stretch you're talking about...

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Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:22 am

Big Dave

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Re: A Look at Dolphins Draft History Post Shula

Rich wrote:

With so many players who come here after doing well and suck, or suck here and do good elsewhere, I think coaching and player development is a far bigger problem than talent acquisition.

I definitely believe this has been a real issue for this team. And I don't understand why a coach should give up on a talented player just because they didn't draft them and they aren't a perfect fit for their scheme. There were several players that were bounced out of here that were successful somewhere else.

Dphins4me wrote:

Shula pretty much sucked at drafting. Outside Marino & he fell into his lap. He struggled with doing it. This is not saying he did not have his hits. Webb & McDuffie & Bowens.

The Don didn't do very well the last few years. I think he was saved in his later days by having the eye to draft Dan the Man and his ability to choose offensive line talent.

I believe it's coaching as well. Ireland is like every other GM in this business. He hits some, and misses some. The Niners blew with all that talent on the roster and in comes Harbaugh and they are contenders. He knows how to use talent, Philben does not. It's unbelievable that Philben gets a pass when he gives plays away. Imagine playing chess and letting your opponent know your next move. Insane...

Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:11 am

Rich

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Re: A Look at Dolphins Draft History Post Shula

Rich wrote:

rodneyfaile wrote:

I've seen enough of you around here to know you take everything personally and care more about winning arguments than arriving at correct conclusions. It's pointless talking to you when you reach that point.

Your numbers are skewed and really shouldn't say "contributor. Maybe "still in the NFL" would be a better marker of talent. It is one thing to select a player. It is another to pay to keep him when his contract is up. Miami failed to make the playoffs this year because veteran players were let go who could've helped this team.

Chad Henne is still in the NFL and I didn't count him amongst the contributors.

So how do you know my numbers are skewed if you haven't really taken the time to dig deeper?

Okay, which is why I suggested the catagory as still in the NFL. If a player is contributing here, or somewhere else, is irrelevant to how good the GM's drafts were. "contributed little" is a subjective term and means different things to different people. Like Chad Henne who is a servicable backup. Another factor in play is the GM's ability to retain talent. The 1970s Atlanta Braves are a great example. They were a farm team for the rest of baseball. Players would leave and go on to have great careers elsewhere. Once they changed that, their fortunes changed. Right now, draft is half the picture with Ireland. Talent retention is the other half where he failed miserably.

Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:39 am

NFLJunkie

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Re: A Look at Dolphins Draft History Post Shula

Quote:

We've been over this before. Jeff Ireland had no say in the hiring of coaches.

This is a ridiculous statement. No one outside the organization knows this and any "rumor" or article by a reporter is simply hearsay. If this is the case, then maybe that is what is wrong with Miami. If Ross has his hands that deep into the final say rather than relying on football men, this team is screwed and will continue to be so.