Universities and Polytechnics

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science how many universities and polytechnics there are in the North-West, North-East and Midlands Regions, respectively; and what is the population in each case.

Eight in the North-West Economic Planning Region, five in the Northern Region and 12 in the East and the West Midlands Regions. The populations in 1969 were approximately 6.8 millions, 3.3 millions and 8.5 millions respectively.

Is it not clear from these figures that the North-West Region does not get its full and fair share of facilities for further education and higher education? Could the hon. Gentleman say when it is intended to extend these facilities, and will he particularly look at the needs of North-East Lancashire, which has not a single polytechnic? Will he ask his right hon. Friend to give us an assurance that the advanced courses in Blackburn will be retained as the basis on which a polytechnic in North-East Lancashire could in due course be built?

If the right hon. Lady will look at the statistics she will find that her conclusion is not right, particularly if she is thinking of students-to-population. I hope she will agree that both the universities and the polytechnics should be regarded in a national context.

My right hon. Friend has no intention at present of designating polytechnics additional to those which have been publicly announced, but obviously the claim put forward by the right hon. Lady will be seriously considered in the event of that being so.

Would the hon. Gentlemen bear in mind that there are
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already in existence in Blackburn first-class business study facilities, that Blackburn is itself a major headquarter centre for many firms in the region; and that it seems appropriate, in view of the management training needs in Blackburn, that the management study section should be preserved?

Does the hon. Gentleman appreciate that many students who have failed to secure admission to universities are anxious to get into these polytechnics, and that it is extremely difficult, unless we establish some kind of clearing house, for these students to know the number of places available in the polytechnics?

I am not hostile to what the hon. Gentleman is seeking to do. But I put it to him that there are problems with a clearing house procedure in any way analogous to that of the universities. For example, we must consider whether it should simply cover degree course work only. This is the kind of problem which makes it so much more difficult.

Does my right hon. Friend accept that there are strong reasons, in the development of higher education generally, for a large part of the growth to be in the polytechnics, thus easing somewhat the strain of expansion in the universities?

While I am happy to hear the Secretary of State speak of the expansion of polytechnic facilities, may I ask whether she will tell us, with reference to an earlier Question, how she will ensure the maximum use of facilities at those polytechnics if her Department does not take steps to ensure that as many qualified students as possible know about the places available at polytechnics?

When I go round the schools I frequently point out to teachers—particularly those in sixth forms—the need to tell the children more about polytechnics and not always to advise them to go to universities. I believe that the more we do this the better it will be both for the intake to the polytechnics and for those who are eventually coming out to find jobs.