I know Riley wasn't the coach, but he tried to "school" him frequently. (And someone like Pat Riley wouldn't like a bust at #2 on his resume ) I agree though that if anyone can bring out Beasley's potential it would be Larry Brown.

Yeah, I'm sure Riley tried his best. But 'frequently' wasn't frequently enough apparently. The daily message of a coach who knows how to deal with him will help, but who can say if Larry Brown can do that. He probably has a good a chance as anyone though.

It sounds like if Toronto doesn't do a S&T it's out of principle and spite.

I had mentioned this yesterday but...

If its worth 5 cents on the dollar - they should NOT do it out of principle. #### Bosh. #### Miami having to deal with a premadonna (as RIley, I'm sure, nudge nudge wink winked Bosh saying we'll handle it and get you your max. deal - let him handle an unhappy camper).

Yeah. I agree with that sentiment (the Tim W sentiment). I would say we should look to the Indiana Pacers as the team we should avoid being. Never terrible, never great leaves them always in the middle of the draft. I will never, ever argue for tanking or losing to get a higher draft pick, but you also - if you want to develop your young talent - have to play your young talent and let them get you the best they can. If that means you end up as at the bottom, at least you're not there with a team of veterans. You pick yourself up, get better in the offseason, and hit her again.

You need to build your team that way, or build one you think can win a championship, if not now, then at some point. No sense in building a team that you know will never take you past the first or second round at best. Championship or nothing - now or in the future. That's the way all GM's and all players have to look at it.

And, most importantly, you have to believe the players you've assembled can take you there. Otherwise it's all just a waste of time.

I actually think that Indiana lucked out by all the injuries they had last year. Without the injuries, they might very well have made the playoffs, or at least would have been in contention for them, giving them a lower draft pick. As it is, they ended up getting a potential star, in Paul George. Still, I completely agree with your assessment. Larry Bird has been a fittingly mediocre GM who has always looked for the safe route, like drafting Tyler Hansborough instead of players with a little more potential. I was actually surprised about the George pick because it goes against what Indiana usually does. Cole Aldirich, Xavier Henry or even Patrick Patterson would have been "safer" picks.

Well, you know, if you are gonna ruin a franchise, you might as well do it for spite.

That's what I think, anyway.

Please - this happens in business all the time - people will do things out of spite to send a message. Its called not being a pushover. And ya....it is what extremely successful people do..not only those who want to scrape for the little they can return. Its how reputations are formed.

If Colangelo ends up getting a big name player with a big salary with the exception, I'll be extremely disappointed. I understand not wanting to have a losing culture, but the problem the Raptors have is they have so good young talent, but no great young talent. They need to get a high lottery pick next year and a shot at a potential top 10 player if they want to be anything but a mediocre team for the long term.

Mediocrity is far, far worse than a season or two in the lottery without the right players. I like the Raptors young guys, but they simply don't have the pieces to be anything but a mediocre team without a true elite talent.

The Clippers were a team mismanaged and they drafted badly, which is why they have been bad for so long. Same with Golden State or most teams that have been perennial lottery teams.

Either you have the confidence you're a good enough GM to be able to rebuild the right way and do it fairly quickly (2-3 years) or you simply don't have confidence in your abilities, and that's not a good sign.

And I like what Sam Presti has done in Oklahoma, and that is the model Colangelo should be using, but let's not canonize the guy just yet. So far, his team hasn't made it past the second round and if he hadn't lucked out and grabbed Durant, they wouldn't be anywhere close to where they are now. Let's see what Presti over the next 2 or 3 years. Right now, RC Buford has to be the guy with the best GM title.

You forgot Minnesota, as in my eyes they are the clear front runner for what the hell are you doing. I just heard they were thinking of signing Luke Ridnour, another PG!!!

Why doesn't anybody want Beasley?? He's like 21 only, and every year gets better. He's a number 2 Pick overall, so if we lose our number 4 pick, why don't we invest in a number 2 pick who had a better season than bosh did in his second year in the NBA! FML! I hate Colangelo. I think he's distant brothers with rob babcock

You forgot Minnesota, as in my eyes they are the clear front runner for what the hell are you doing. I just heard they were thinking of signing Luke Ridnour, another PG!!!

Yes, they definitely take the cake. I hadn't heard they were thinking of signing Ridnour. That's amazing. I said before the draft lottery, that if Toronto didn't win, I wanted to see Minnesota win so they could draft three PGs in the top 5 in two years.

Why doesn't anybody want Beasley?? He's like 21 only, and every year gets better. He's a number 2 Pick overall, so if we lose our number 4 pick, why don't we invest in a number 2 pick who had a better season than bosh did in his second year in the NBA! FML! I hate Colangelo. I think he's distant brothers with rob babcock

He's a horrible defender, does little other than score, has real off court issues and might be stuck between the 3 and 4.

Darko was a number 2 pick, as well, does that mean the Raptors should try and get him?

And I'm not quite sure where you get that Beasley had a better 2nd season than Bosh did. Simply looking at PER, which is just stats, Bosh had a better season, and Bosh was also a better defender and didn't have any off court issues.

I'd be fine with taking Beasley back if it mean unloading one of the Raptors contracts, but I see him as a slightly more athletic Glenn Robinson. A guy who really only does one thing well, and who will never be able to lead a contender, but who doesn't have the game to be a good role player.

The whole not dealing out of spite would be egocentric and stupid. Bosh is gone.... who cares what he is making next year. Do you really think we have a team that will make playoffs anytime soon? We have numerous players locked up in long term deals and no significant cap room in sight, and don't know how to spend it. We just wasted a bunch of money on mediocre talent (Amir- I love the guy but that's ridiculous).

Make the trade, get the pick back, a TPE, and a young talent. I'm not opposed to Beasley, I think he would be okay in Toronto's environment. If not let him play and trade him away. Use the TPE on a real centre with size and rebounding. Trade turk and one of the point guards for a SF that can slash, drive and play D and a young PG (Collison)

I don't want to see another rebuilding term. Especially if we don't make a trade here. We are really going to handcuff ourselves. How protected is our draft pick next year??? Top 3????

The whole not dealing out of spite would be egocentric and stupid. Bosh is gone.... who cares what he is making next year. Do you really think we have a team that will make playoffs anytime soon? We have numerous players locked up in long term deals and no significant cap room in sight, and don't know how to spend it. We just wasted a bunch of money on mediocre talent (Amir- I love the guy but that's ridiculous).

Make the trade, get the pick back, a TPE, and a young talent. I'm not opposed to Beasley, I think he would be okay in Toronto's environment. If not let him play and trade him away. Use the TPE on a real centre with size and rebounding. Trade turk and one of the point guards for a SF that can slash, drive and play D and a young PG (Collison)

I don't want to see another rebuilding term. Especially if we don't make a trade here. We are really going to handcuff ourselves. How protected is our draft pick next year??? Top 3????

The pick is lottery protected until 2015. And the best the team can hope for with this roster, even with a couple of trades, is mediocrity. I'm not happy with that. To me, that's WAY more depressing than rebuilding.

I'm not sure why you say you don't want to go through ANOTHER rebuilding term. I haven't seen ANY rebuilding. I've seen constant retooling, which is what you're apparently suggesting, and which hasn't worked.

hmmmmm maybe I mean loosing. Before Vince there was a lot of rebuilding going on.

The thing with rebuilding is that you have to be able to keep those stud players that you draft. We can't do that! We are not a team that builds through free agency because most American players don't want to come here. So our option is have a predominately European team or trade for good players with long term contracts. Drafts are important and we have three young players that can be good for this team. To keep these guys we have to have to start winning and make this a franchise players want to come to.

Tim W.: I can understand where you're coming from with wanting to see the Raptors rebuild, but I dont think it's ever going to happen -- or, at least, the roster you see right now is the closest we're going to get. I dont think BC is ever going to make a move that he thinks will make the team do badly in the regular season. That isn't what MLSE hired him for. MLSE wants us making the playoffs every year, because that makes most fans happy and sells merchandise. Of course they want a championship, but they don't want to endure 5 years of losing to get a shot.

On the upside, 'rebuilding' is not at all the only way to win a championship. The Lakers did not get where they are by rebuilding. Neither did Boston. Fans like the concept because they can understand the logic of it, but in the real world, it's not even all that common as the road to the championship. The main way is just good trades. No special reason the Raptors can't do that, although of course it's unlikely (since winnign a championship is always unlikely).