Read the transcript from the Wednesday show

CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC ANCHOR: Good evening from Ferguson, Missouri. I`m Chris Hayes. Night has fallen here in Ferguson, and we have seen a dramatic change here tonight. A real shift in the mood in Ferguson at this hour. Last night, officers didn`t use tear gas, but there were tense dramatic standoffs happening in the streets. The night before, rocks being thrown at media, and this, of course, followed days of chaotic scenes with police in riot gear using tear gas and rubber bullets. Tonight, it is largely calm. About 100 protesters circling on West Florissant. Partly that`s because the rain. Partly that`s because the police, frankly, have made it very difficult to get down to this part of West Florissant, and partly because of the sheer exhaustion of a genuinely traumatized community. And partly, I think, because a new sense that the wheels of justice are in motion. As there were major developments today in investigation into the fatal shooting of Michael Brown at the hands of Ferguson police Officer Darren Wilson.

The grand jury began to hear evidence on the case for the first time today. Attorney General Eric Holder came to town to meet with FBI agents pursuing a federal civil rights investigation, which has included conducting a third autopsy of Brown`s body and canvassing the neighborhood for witnesses to his death. Holder started today by meeting with community leaders and local students who shared their own experiences dealing with local police.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRADLEY J. RATFORD, STUDENT: We told him some people were targeted. We told him that we feel that now we just race after Americans were targeted, we felt that people of low income were targeted. He told a story about when he was growing up, he was pulled over by a New Jersey police department, police state trooper. I`m not sure how they are called in New Jersey. But he told a story how he was humiliated. They told him to get out of his car, they searched his car.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: Report in "The New York Times" Holder and Justice Department officials are weighing whether to open a broader civil rights investigation into Ferguson`s policing practices. At a lunch stop in a local restaurant Drake`s Place, Holder met the man who in many ways has become the face of officialdom at the protest. Captain Ron Johnson, the highway patrol officer, charged with overseeing security.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAPTAIN RON JOHNSON, HIGHWAY PATROL OFFICER: We did. We had the community came out, activists, the elders of this community. And they did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: After a briefing from FBI investigators and a meeting with elected officials, Holder had an emotional meeting with Michael Brown`s family. His trip to Ferguson was intended to reassure the community there will be justice for Mike Brown delivered, possibly by an entity they can trust. And the reason why his visit was so significant is precisely the massive chasm of distrust that exists between members of the community and the other men currently overseeing an investigation to Brown`s death, Bob McCulloch, St. Louis county prosecutor. That criminal investigation by the local county prosecutor is now the subject of a surreal open political war between McCulloch and Missouri Governor Jay Nixon, in which the prosecutor appears to practically daring the governor to take him off the case. Under the state of emergency, currently in place here in Missouri, the governor has the authority to appoint a special prosecutor and McCulloch has said he won`t step aside unless he`s ordered by the governor to do so.

Now, last night, Governor Nixon issued a statement saying he wouldn`t ask McCulloch to recuse himself, but "there is a well-established process by which a prosecutor can recuse themselves from a pending investigation." In other words, each is saying no, you go first. And the standoff came to a boiling point today, McCulloch tore into the governor on a local radio station.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB MCCULLOCH, ST. LOUIS COUNTY PROSECUTOR TODAY: Unfortunately, if it`s Nixonian double speak as usual. He undermines everything, and, you know, he undermines everything except the cover that he`s drafted or pulled over his head. And that`s his sole purpose in this. So stand up, you know, man up, stand up and say, I have this authority. I am not removing McCulloch, I am removing McCulloch, and let`s get on with this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: McCulloch even cited one of his biggest own detractors, one of his most vocal critics, State Senator Maria Chappelle-Nadal who was standing here with me last night calling for his removal from the case on this show.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCULLOCH: I caught a bit of the Senator Chappelle-Nadal`s statement and she`s right on the money saying, he`s ducking the issue. He doesn`t want to answer a question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: Amid all the controversy, Holder told reporters that he hoped the work being done in the federal investigation would help cool the heated temperatures in Ferguson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC HOLDER, ATTORNEY GENERAL: The hope also is that through the trip that I`m making out here today and by stressing the importance of and the way in which this investigation is going, that hopefully will have a calming influence on the area. People know that a federal, thorough investigation is being done, being manned by these very capable people. My hope is that that will have -- give people some degree of confidence that the appropriate things are being done by their federal government.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: Joining me now is Yamiche Alcindor, reporter for "USA Today." You`ve been doing fantastic reporting. I`ve really been in the following of your coverage closely, so what changed today, what didn`t change today?

YAMICHE ALCINDOR, "USA TODAY": I think people, what changed today is that people really feel as though the federal government has stepped in. Not just on a broad basis and a vague idea, but the idea that the Attorney General Eric Holder, is actually here in their community. It`s a big deal for a lot of people here. They say that he could have just said something, he could have stayed in Washington and talked about it, but people here say now we really trust that this process is going to be fair, it`s going to be balanced and people are really going to think, OK, the federal government is going to come in and really look at this from a perspective that the local are not going to be able to do.

HAYES: Do you feel that same sense of exhaustion among people here, people are still so angry and frustrated. We see a lot - fewer people on the streets tonight. I think part of that, again, is the police have managed to keep people away, you know, the arrest, but there`s also it seems to me and I wonder if you agree, that people just are spent, they are just spent.

ALCINDOR: People are really, really exhausted. In some ways people are walking around kind of in a mile-long circle. And they are kind of getting exhausted. But I should tell you that I talked to a girl today who said that I`m not tired, because I saw Michael Brown`s body lying on the ground. And that`s going to be the reason why I keep on protesting. She said she had a little baby that was less than one year old and she said I gave her to my grandmother because right now all I can do is protest because I saw him lying there for hours and hours and I can`t stop protesting until I see somebody indicted for that.

So, I think people here as long as they are - they are very exhausted, but I think they are also somewhat traumatized. And that trauma and that pain means that they`re going to continue to protest.

HAYES: Yeah, the trauma is very real. And I`m not sure necessarily if all of us in the media have done a good job of showing people that, because it`s hard to kind of see. It doesn`t look like protesting or teargas. But that is something that you just - there`s like a real trauma to everyone, and person after person talks about seeing that body in the street.

ALCINDOR: I think that body in the street is what`s motivating a lot of these people to stay here. It`s raining tonight, they are walking around the miles. It`s uncomfortable, it`s muggy. People are like, it doesn`t matter. I`m going to continue to chant Michael Brown`s name. People are losing their voices, but they`re like, I saw that body. He`s - I`m mean to be not graphic, but, you know, he`s bleeding on the ground with no sheet. And he`s looking just like one of us. People are really traumatized by that. And I think even older people are -- I - woman today with the cane, she said, you know what, I have to take a rest because I can`t keep walking around in circles, she said, but I`m not going home. I`m just taking a rest. And I think a lot of people are saying that.

And yes, sure, we are not really talking about the trauma because I talked to so many people who burst into tears when they are trying to explain to me why they`re here. People that have seen the body and people that came from Chicago and Florida and New York that say I know somebody who was also killed by the cops. And I`m upset about that now.

HAYES: I saw a man today, I was right around here where Michael Brown was shot, and there was a lot of folks out there today, there was kind of a memorial atmosphere. I saw a guy walking by just sobbing and just stopping in the middle of the street, doubled over on his ease just racked, just couldn`t move. And it just struck me also that there hasn`t been a lot of space to grieve for anyone. I mean that the funeral is Monday and I think we`ll see a lot more of that. Yamiche Alcindor, from "USA Today." Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

ALCINDOR: Thanks.

HAYES: All right. Joining me now, Phillip Agnew who is director of Dream Defenders and Reverend Osagyefo Sekou, a native of St. Louis and the fellow of the Fellowship for Reconciliation. So, it also feels to me like there`s a step happening now where this is - there`s word that Michael Brown`s family will be traveling to New York to participate in a march that`s planned there over the death of Eric Garner, he`s a Staten Island man who was put in a chokehold by an NYPD police officer on the cell phone video saying I can`t breeze. Who died. Do you think there`s some kind of moment here that`s going to zoom out into something larger around the way policing happens in the city - this country and criminal justice more broadly?

PHILIP AGNEW, DIRECTOR, DREAM DEFENDERS: Right. I think we need to talk about demands right now. I think we`re in a position to sincerely have a conversation with our elected officials about what we want. We have departments around this country that have acted with reckless (INAUDIBLE) and have killed black men in the middle of the street in front of their families, in front of stores and nothing has happened. And so, we want federal investigations. Eric Holder is down here now. We want federal investigations into all of those police departments. Because it`s not just happening in Ferguson. It`s happening in Miami Beach, it`s happening in Miami Dade. It`s happening in Chicago, it`s happening in L.A., it`s happening in New York. And we`re seeing it. Just in the past month. And so, we want a federal investigation into all of those police departments. We want McCulloch off the case, too. You were talking about it earlier, it`s like having a blind man operate on you. This person hasn`t convicted a police officer for killing a black men ever. He needs to be off the case. He`s not qualified to do it. And so, these are demands that we frame, that we are talking about .

HAYES: Concrete.

AGNEW: Yeah, concrete demands. And I think it`s awesome that the family is able to do that and join in solidarity, but it`s sad that it has to be at a funeral.

HAYES: Reverend, I was reading some history. Great historian Rick Perlstein. He just got a book out about Reagan. He writes - he`s written a sort of history of conservatism. And he writes about Nixon and law and order and how Seminole - the Watts Riots and the `68 riots were in creating the politics of law and order. Politics we`ve lived with now.

AGNEW: Yes.

HAYES: That were created in some ways, the world we inhabit now.

AGNEW: Yes.

HAYES: And to me it`s this question of when do we turn the corner on those politics, right?

REV. OSAGYEFO SEKOU, FELLOW, FELLOWSHIP OF RECONCILIATION: Well, I think - I think we turn the corner only with the level of resistance that we have consistently seen. These young people have done America a great service by bearing witness, engaging in civil disobedience and non-compliance. And they should be celebrated and not demonized. What we see now is a low level, what many of commentators have talked about as a kind of low level turnout is the result of high levels of repressing. Police extractions on television, journalists being attacked. And in the midst of all of that repressing, these young people consistently come out and they resist.

HAYES: Yeah, you know, it`s worth noting this. People who watch protests, if you`ve ever been an organizer of a protest, go try to get 100 people to show up for something.

SEKOU: Yes.

HAYES: It`s much, much harder than it looks. And we`re looking at people that for 12 nights in a row have come out. The vast majority nonviolent.

SEKOU: Yes.

HAYES: The vast majority risking.

SEKOU: Yes.

HAYES: Teargas and rubber bullets.

SEKOU: Yes.

HAYES: Arrest.

SEKOU: Yes.

HAYES: Exhaustion.

SEKOU: Yes.

HAYES: And coming out again and again, and often with no - there`s not some central email blast that`s going out.

SEKOU: No, no. It`s been really - because the experience of these young people has been one of economic deprivation and between 2000 and 2012, unemployment in Ferguson has doubled. The average income is like one in four people in Ferguson lives below the poverty line. The average income is like $36,000 - medium income is like $36,000 a year, that`s a $14,000 difference. It`s really people trying to make a dollar out of 15 cents. And so, when you look at the ways, in which these folks have lived under high levels of oppression, combined with now being occupied. I mean police had guns at a church last night. They were searching a church last night, which is a sin and it`s something reminiscent of the `60s.

HAYES: Right.

SEKOU: Of the activities of Birmingham, right? That right now we are experiencing a kind of postmodern corner.

HAYES: Yeah.

SEKOU: It worked in Ferguson at this moment.

AGNEW: And nobody is going home. Nobody is going home. Listen, there will be - floors with everything. But when I was out here yesterday talking to the young boys out here, I asked them one question, what do you want? Unequivocally, unanimously they wanted justice. You arrest this man. You bring him to justice, swift justice, just as you would if I had taken a cigarillo from the store and exactly justice in the store - in the street. Arrest this man. And it`s a very simple, simple demand. But it touches that a political analysis that we are human. We deserve what anybody in this country deserves when something wrong has been done and to them. And we`re not going to stand for a police force that thinks that they can quell that just by being out here every night. This isn`t going to stop. You can`t unsee what you saw last week.

HAYES: I think part of what`s been important about the story also is, you know, I went to -- talked to the major today in Ferguson. And I went to a part of Ferguson about two miles from here - it might as well be another planet.

AGNEW: Yes.

SEKOU: Yes.

HAYES: And that`s true in New York City, I mean there`s people - in New York City, I remember during the mayoral race talking about stop and frisk. It`s like .

SEKOU: Yeah.

HAYES: That`s happening on the other planet. Part of what makes the politics so tricky is that there are people, genuinely good-faith and well-meaning individuals who just have no idea .

AGNEW: Right.

HAYES: Of what police -- what it feels like to be policed in certain communities in this country.

AGNEW: That`s going away.

HAYES: And this moment they`ve seen it.

SEKOU: But I think also like when the way, in which we`ve talked about saying how things are different now, that things are calm and things are peaceful now, the reality is that the violence has been so high by the police. This level of violence. Because this is still violent. This level of violence has become normative to us, and that should scare us all.

HAYES: Phillip Agnew and Reverend Sekou, thank you gentlemen.

AGNEW: Thank you very much.

HAYES: I appreciate it.

SEKOU: Thank you, dear brother.

HAYES: All right, there is some other news to report tonight beside what`s going on here in Ferguson. We heard some of the strongest language ever used by President Obama. What he was talking about, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES: One day after the release of the horrifying video of the execution of American Photo Journalist, James Wright Foley, President Obama, address it in some of the strongest language he ever used as president.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: ISIL has no ideology of any value to human beings. The ideology is bankrupt. They may claim out of expediency that they`re at war with the United States or the west. But the fact is they terrorize their neighbors and offer them nothing but an endless slavery to their empty vision. And the collapse of any definition of civilized behavior. One thing we call all agree on is that a group like ISIL has no place in the 21st century.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

HAYES: Secretary of State John Kerry, use even stronger language against ISIS, also known as ISIL, tweeting, ISIL must be destroyed, will be crushed. And state department has submitted a request about 300 additional U.S. service members to give up the security at U.S. Embassy in Baghdad and at U.S. facilities at the Baghdad airport. And according to a senior U.S. official speaking to MBC News, the request is under consideration by the Pentagon, no decisions have been made, James Wright Foley who has been held captive since 2012 will according to ISIS, not be the only American journalist executed if U.S. airstrikes persist. And the video ISIS released, made clear they`re speaking directly to the United States following a small portion of that video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is James Wright Foley, an American citizen of your country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: Just this afternoon, the Pentagon acknowledge the U.S. recently attempted a rescue operation to free some American hostages held by ISIS in Syria. According to Pentagon Press Secretary Rear Admiral John Kirby, the mission earlier this summer was not successful, because the hostages were not present at the targeted location. Meanwhile, there were 14 more U.S. air strikes against ISIS seating in the Mosul dam today, according to a press release from the National Security Council. Joining me now, Lawrence Korb, a Senior Fellow of the Center for American Progress, he served as assistant secretary of defense in the Reagan administration. Lawrence, this news today about a Special Forces mission into Syria in the midst of what is the most chaotic darkest civil war (inaudible) on the planet right now, to extract hostages, that strikes me as a pretty big deal.

LAWRENCE KORB, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS: It`s probably the biggest thing Obama has done since going after bin Laden. And it shows how concerned he is about human beings, and the other is, I think it sends a signal to ISIS, be aware, you know, we can come after your leaders. We got bin Laden and Mr. (inaudible), you better be careful as well.

HAYES: There`s now a situation in which you have the Prime Minister David Cameron, coming home from vacation because of the voice on that tape, clearly seems to be someone from the U.K., and we`ve been getting reports for months now, more than months of foreign fighters joining ISIS. How significant do you think that is?

KORB: Well, I think it`s very significant, because a lot of them have, unfortunately, happened to be Americans. And basically what will happen is, they can go over there, get trained and maybe come back here or come back to the U.K. or other European countries. And I think that`s what Obama was trying to say today. You know, this is not a good group that`s trying to, you know, help people or re-establish, you know, the way the world was under Mohammed. These are barbarians and they kill more Muslims than anyone else.

HAYES: Yeah. I mean, it`s -- the reports out of there, some of the videos that they have posted are just unspeakably horrific, it just mass slaughter, attempted genocide. I don`t think there`s any debate at the moment about the absolute degraded monstrosity of what ISIS is doing. There is debate about how -- what the U.S. does about it, there`s a lot of emotion and anger understandably after they posted that video, it`s so chilling. But what do you see as the strategic options, from a strategic perspective, in dealing with ISIS?

KORB: Well, ISIS did this because they want us to stop the bombing we`re doing. If anything that enhance it, I think, Americans who are on defense of somewhat (inaudible) about this, are gonna say, no, you have got to go after these people because of who they are. And I think what you`re going to see is, many more U.S. airstrikes supporting (inaudible) Kurdish forces and Iraqi military forces for example. They move from the dam to try to take back Tikrit, and my guess is ALL other things being equal, you`re gonna see a lot more American air strikes than we would have had this not happened.

HAYES: But, Lawrence, to play devil`s advocate for a moment here, I mean, the Saddam Hussein regime in Iraq is unspeakably horrific and his acts as well. I mean, just everything we knew about how they conducted themselves, they also pursue genocide in (inaudible). So, we learned what that -- going to U.S. war in Iraq looked like. Is there a danger we`re being drawn back into one that won`t ultimately, make the lives of Iraqis better or be in American strategic interests?

KORB: Well, I think the fact that you have a new government in Baghdad gives you hope that the Iraqis will do the fighting. We`re not going to send ground troops in there. You know, large army divisions or anything but, we`re going to have, as we have now, Special Forces on the ground. But we use American air power. Remember, you know, how long we bombed in Libya, several months, how long was 77 days in Kosovo. So, American air power if you get the cooperation of the troops on the ground can turn this around. And Obama did say today, you know, it`s up to you people here to get rid of these guys.

HAYES: But Libya strikes me as a perfect example which was a successful mission with respect to the air strikes in the respect that it stopped the assault from Khadafi. He was ultimately obviously killed, but Libya`s a mess right now. I mean, that if -- one question, I think that has a lot of people worried as we watch this kind of gradual, not so gradual escalation.

KORB: Well, I think you`re right. But remember, Iraq is a special case. We created this mess by going in and destabilized in the country. So, moral imperative is stronger there, but Obama has been very clear, in the final analysis, you have to have an inclusive government, and if you don`t do that, then you`re going to have to live with the consequences. They`ve achieved one of the objectives, there`s no way ISIS is going to go into the Kurdish area now, so, at least you have got at least one third of Iraq that won`t go under their control. They`re not in the Shiite area. So, really it`s in the Sunnis, and by these people acting so barbarically, I think you`re going to see the Sunnis turn against them, particularly if you have an inclusive government.

HAYES: That was what happened with Zarkawi, who was, you know, leading a group that was kind of (inaudible) were so, unspeakably barbaric in his actins. He ended up alienating anyone who could possibly be an ally in the resistance against America. Lawrence Korb from the Center for American Progress, thank you.

KORB: Thank you for having me.

HAYES: Last night was relatively calm here in Ferguson, there was several -- there were several interactions, one in particular between a police officer and protesters that resulted in an officer being suspended today without pay. We will show you that interaction which is caught on camera, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES: Last night here in Ferguson, Missouri was a relatively calm night in the streets relatively. The first time in days, police did not deploy tear gas to these protesters. The relative piece of last nights demonstration was as I`ve said, relative. Not all interactions (inaudible) protesters and police were at all calm. Late last night here in Ferguson, this scene was caught on camera and posted online.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My hands are up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stand up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My hands are up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hands up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get back. Get back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re going to kill him?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s your name, sir?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go (BLEEP) yourself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your name`s go (BLEEP) yourself.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

HAYES: Following a public outcry from the ACLU and others, that officer, who works at the Saint Ann police department, was suspended. The Saint Ann police chief told a local TV station, the officer in question had raised his gun because he saw a weapon in the crowd. After realizing it was a BB gun, he continued to scan the crowd with his Air-22 rifle raised, which he described as standard procedure.

Quote, "It was havoc at that time. He also got urine thrown on him, having to deal with that is obviously disgusting. However, when he is trying to protect the public and ask the people to back up, under no circumstances do I or our department condone his language." Language being the problem there, not the gun pointed.

The chief said he placed the officer on unpaid suspension. Police have killed another man just a few miles from here, where Michael Brown was killed by police. We have reported that yesterday. But, the reaction there has been very different, both by residents and the police. And, what we have seen in Ferguson, more on that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES: Today, Sam Dotson, the chief of police in St. Louis went before the media and announced the release of cell phone video showing the killing of 25-year-old Kajieme Powell by two St. Louis Police Officers yesterday. The killing that took place just 3 miles from where Michael Brown was killed by police in Ferguson.

Powell was suspected of shoplifting two energy drinks and doughnuts from a convenience store. And, a 911 caller reported to police that Powell was carrying a knife. Police Chief Sam Dotson described the video as he saw it to reporters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAM DOTSON, ST. LOUIS POLICE CHIEF: The suspect continues to say, "Shoot me. Kill me now." The police officer, you can clearly hear them say, "Stop. Please, drop the knife." The suspect does start towards the front of the car, towards the driver`s side then goes around towards the passenger side of the vehicle, approaches the police officer that is in the passenger seat in a threatening manner and begins to close the distance.

Both officers indicated that they are in fear of their life as the suspect walks towards the officer in the passenger side. You can see the officer take one to one and a half steps backwards. As he does that, the suspect continues to advance towards him. Both officers fire their weapon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: I have seen the video and it is amazing how quickly the situation escalates to the point that the officers fire their weapons. MSNBC has decided not to show the cell phone video of the killing of Kajieme Powell. The tragedy coming on the heals of Michael Brown`s death elicited a new wave of anger in the community.

Protesters gathered to the crime scene to chant, "Hands up! Do not shoot." And, many questioned why police could not have use a taser on Powell or some non-lethal force instead of killing him. One things that is clear is the officials in St. Louis appeared to have learned some lessons from what happened in Ferguson.

Police Chief Dotson entered the crowd to talk to protesters in attempt to calm tensions yesterday on the scene. And, the mayor of St. Louis, Francis Slay orchestrated an impromptu jobs fair at the site of the protest. But, Slay`s chief of staff told us resulted in 85 signups. Today, the mayor spoke with Powell`s grandmother to personally offer his condolences. And, joining me now is the mayor of St. Louis, Francis Slay. Mayor, why did you decide to release the video?

FRANCIS SLAY, ST. LOUIS MAYOR: Well, first, I just want to make sure we -- as we approach this, we are very sensitive to the fact that a young man lost his life in our city and was shot by a police officer, Kajieme Powell. And, that is something that does impact our community tremendously. And, as we go forward, we want to make sure that we do everything in a very sensitive way; sensitive to the fact that a young man`s life was lost, and sensitive to the context that this has happened, particularly on the heals of what is going on in Ferguson.

We decided to release the video, because there was -- the person that took it was actually trying to shop this video around, and it did come into our possession, so we put it out there, because it was going to get out there anyway. And, we wanted to make sure that the public had the information that we had. We released the 911 audio. We also released the dispatcher tapes as well.

And, we have released this particular video, so that we are being very transparent in our approach in handling this, doing it in a very sensitive way. I did tell, by the way, the young man`s grandmother that we were intending to do this at the time. So, I did notify her and I notified a lot of community members about it. Certainly, any kind of shooting is not something, you know, that is really good to look at. But, I thought it was necessary in the circumstances.

HAYES: One of the things about the video is that, you can tell that -- there is -- this man is very riled up. He is yelling shoot me. And, the training protocol seems to be obeyed here. I talked to people that do police training that within 21 feet, someone with a knife is a lethal threat. They can close that gap. At the same time, everyone I was talking to on the scene is asking, could not you use nonlethal force? Was there another way for this to come to a resolution that is not so unspeakably terrible?

SLAY: Well, that is certainly a legitimate question, and that is a question that is going to be asked by a lot of people. Different people can look at the situation certainly, you know, after the fact and watching it on video and come to all kinds of conclusions. But, these officers, first of all, are trained. They are put in a very difficult situation.

They have to make quick decisions and they are trained to protect themselves. They have to make a judgment call. And, basically what we got now. We got two investigations going now. We have a parallel investigation, one. A criminal investigation, which is protocol for our police department as well as internal affairs investigation. So, those investigations will look at these very, very carefully. Certainly, get all the evidence gathered then come to conclusions as to the results.

HAYES: You sent a truck over to the scene of the shooting yesterday, where there were protesters who had gathered to sign people up for a jobs fair, I believe, or jobs program through the city. What motivated that decision? Are you attempting to learn lessons from what is happening here in Ferguson?

SLAY: Well, certainly we have learned a lot from what happened in Ferguson, and there is certainly a lot to be learned there. I sent staff members out there to get a sense of what is going on in the crowd. Talk to some of the people there. Listen to their concerns.

And, one message that kept coming over and over again by a number of those out there is that, "Hey! You know, we are out here protesting, but we could use a job. We need to be employed. We need to be able to support ourselves and our family."

So, I had my workforce development director, and his team out there. We signed up at least 85 to 90 people in the program that helps them learn how to look for a job, and there are job training programs as well.

HAYES: What do you think the takeaways are going to be for you as mayor, for your police force from what is happening in Ferguson and then this event coming right on the heals of it in terms of how you all think about policing? How you train police? How you have engineered a relationship between the community and the police?

SLAY: Well, I think we always have to continue to look at the training component, and make sure we are doing everything that we can to make sure we have the best trained police officers we can have. And, we certainly are doing that all the time. I think it is a good takeaway here is we have to never lose site of the fact that we are dealing with the loss of life, a very difficult situation, a tragic situation.

Several things are important. One is sensitivity. Sensitivity to that fact. Sensitivity to the emotions that are in the community. These are real lives we are talking about, these are not just videos, and we are not watching T.V. And, the other thing is communication. You cannot underestimate the importance of communication. Accurate communication, prompt communication. Responsible communication, so that you can quell any potential spike in emotions as much as possible.

HAYES: Mayor of St. Louis, Francis Slay. Thank you for your time.

SLAY: Thank you.

HAYES: One of the blocks of Ferguson that you have not seen yet, and what is happening there, next.

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HAYES: Twilight has come to Ferguson and there is an unexpected calm that has settle over this stretch of West Florissant that has been a site of so much chaos, so much anger, so much aggression, and so much tear gas. We will bring you much more live from the scene ahead.

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HAYES: There are at least two Fergusons. The one you are regularly seeing on T.V. the last week and a half, and the protest of the shooting and death of Mike Brown, and neighborhood like the one in which Mike Brown died.

There is another Ferguson, stately homes and wrap-around porches and large lawns. And, many of the folks of that Ferguson, well, they are getting organized today to turn the city`s image around. I went to a local coffee shop, where the newly created friends of the city of Ferguson set up shop with yard`s signs and T-shirts, and I spoke with Mayor James Knowles.

As noted by U.S.A. today, Knowles is one of the youngest mayors in St. Louis County. Former City Councilman and former President of the St. Louis Young Republicans. The mayor and I decided to walk down one of the blocks in Ferguson you have not seen. We talked about that neighborhood. We also talked about whether in both perception and reality, Ferguson was really two towns doing battle with each other.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: I got to say, this seems like a pretty divided town.

(LAUGHING)

JAMES KNOWLES, FERGUSON MAYOR: Sure.

HAYES: And, you know? In a few different ways, race, you know, socioeconomically. I mean, this is a different Ferguson than Camp Hill Apartments where Mike Brown was shot.

MAYOR KNOWLES: Sure. Well, you know, I think the one thing I want people to understand is that there are definitely things that make us different. I mean, we definitely have different styles -- I do not live in any of these homes. I grew up here, you know, first kid in my family and the extended family to go to college. The only one to get my master is degree.

I do not live in these homes, but I have shared values with these people, just like I have shared values to the people in Camp Hill Apartments. And, that is really how -- even being diverse socioeconomically, which we clearly are, reverse racially, which we clearly are, we have been able to successfully -- especially over the past couple decades, really live, work and play together and grow together and so -- whereas people have left here. A lot of people have left here. There are also a lot of people who have stayed here and enjoyed that diversity.

HAYES: I got to say, though, having spent days talking to people --

KNOWLES: Yes.

HAYES: There are a lot of people here who feel like the status quo before was not working for them before. They were, basically, living under this constant threat of police harassment. I mean I can go out there and stick a microphone in someone is face, and they will tell me a story of getting stopped by Ferguson police or County Brown and it seems like there is a little bit of a gap in perception of the folks who are living in this part of Ferguson and that part of Ferguson.

KNOWLES: Well, I mean, I think you have to be careful who you talk to out there too. There is definitely -- as you and I talk about earlier, Ferguson is very small, you know, 6 square miles. There are a lot people from around here that may have interactions. They do not necessarily live here. But, the people who live here and become part of the community generally have great interactions.

You know, Camp Hill Apartments, one of the things we have struggled with in the past few years, there is a lot of subsidized housing over there. A lot of people do not stay very long. You know, they come and go. There is even a disconnect over there between some of the people who live in the townhomes, and who have lived there a few years, and the people who, you know, come and go every six months, turn over with the different -- three owners in the past few years.

There is definitely a disconnection. We have been trying to reach out for the past couple years with those people. As been point out, we are a city that is been in transition. It did not happen over night that we became majority African-American. But, we continue to reach out and be more inclusive all our boards and commissions, our neighborhood associations are very representative.

HAYES: But, is this going to change? Do you feel like what you are seeing is a wakeup call that something got to change in the way Ferguson works.

KNOWLES: Well, I mean, clearly, we have to make sure -- Number one, I have said it for the past two weeks. We have to find a way to stabilize housing. There is, all across North St. Louis County, a problem with housing where people only live for a few years. They switch school districts, you know, every year. They move houses every year, every six months. They never really set down roots. We have to find a way to do that.

HAYES: So, you think that is sort of the -- that is your takeaway from this?

KNOWLES: Yes, the takeaway is we got to find a way to stabilize them here in the community and make them part of it. You cannot make somebody part of a community if they are only here for a short period of time. And, that is the key that actually me and many of the mayors around here have been talking about, especially since this crises has begun. We recognize that already. But, I think we see that this really has helped precipitate that issue.

HAYES: Mayor, thanks a lot.

KNOWLES: No problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: All right. That stretch of Ferguson you saw just there, that is 2 miles from where I am standing now. I am going to talk to someone who knows the history of Ferguson, Mr. Trymaine Lee, who has been doing just incredible reporting on the ground here. That is ahead.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY HENRY, FERGUSON RESIDENT: My support of the Ferguson police department has been like 100 percent. You know, I support them thoroughly. You know, it is just like I had talked to someone before. Their job is their job. Just like my job is my job as a general contractor. So, whatever is going on, you know, in the police department, it will work it is way out. You know, it can be taken care of.

HAYES: You have faith in that? You have faith that there is going to be justice.

HENRY: Justice is going to be served regardless, whatever I say, whatever anybody say, you know? I am just like I said, I am 100 percent supporter to the police department. The majority of the officers know me by name. And, like I said I have been here for years, where I live at. I like people --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: That was a resident of Ferguson I talked today at a coffee shop where friends of the city of Ferguson were organizing. They were handing out t-shirts, "I heart Ferg" and yard signs, "I heart Ferguson." Now, joining me to talk about the history of this town as resident is MSNBC.com National Reporter Trymaine Lee and John Wright, a native of St. Louis, who is assistant superintendent for the Ferguson-Florissant School District; now the Advisory Board of Webster University.

Now, let me begin with you Mr. Wright. I spent a few hours today with folks who were at this staging center for Friends of the City of Ferguson. And, it was predominantly white. Not exclusively, but predominantly white, and people there just seemed like all of this have kind of landed from Mars. They had no idea there was this much anger, that there was this much frustration with police. That any of this was just kind of there beneath the surface. What do you make of that?

JOHN WRIGHT, MEMBER OF ADVISORY BOARD AT WEBSTER UNIVERSITY: I think you have most of the people do not know the history of the community. And, you have to remember this one was a sundown town. And, you have many individuals who moved in the community, remember that. And, so you have wounds that have never been allowed to heal because you have a police department who keeps arresting, harassing those there, and it keeps those wounds alive. So, if they never heal, those things are shared from generation to generation.

HAYES: Mr. Wright, would you just explain what a sundown town is?

WRIGHT: A sundown town is a town where you are not allowed to be around after the sun goes down. Ferguson used to have a road coming out of the black community next to it, that was chained off until the 1960s. They had a pile of asphalt that was blocking the road, and anyone who went into the town, I am told by many residents, you were subject to being locked up and you had no recourse.

And, so we have a number of areas -- many times in St. Louis, we have St. Louis voters -- St. Louis voted in 1916, 2 to 1 to have a segregated community. That was ruled unconstitutional. We went into race restricted covenants that lasted until 1948. After that we had steering and real estate companies fearing African-American to certain neighborhoods and frightening whites out of those neighborhoods to new subdivisions.

We have to remember it is a money game. The game is to make money. They do not care if you are white or black. How can you chase whites out and sell those on to blacks from depressed areas and make a load of money. Ferguson is one of those areas where blacks were shuttled into the southwestern section of the County at city first. Next to the black city of Kinloch --

HAYES: Trymaine, one of the things -- it was really, I think, important today to talk about folks at this coffee shop, it is a very different type of protesters out here, it really felt like two worlds.

TRYMAINE LEE, MSNBC.COM NATIONAL REPORTER: Right.

HAYES: I mean -- And one of the things that struck me there, the surrounding areas, they talk about Ferguson being in transition. It has gotten less white, more African-American over time. Surrounding areas are even less white. I mean Kinloch and Dell Wood and Jennings and all the surrounding areas are 85, 90 percent African-Americans. And, so some of the folks I was talking about, we stayed. You know, we do not have racial animus. This is not a divided town because we are still here and we got a diverse community.

LEE: I think when you look at a community like this as Mr. Wright said, about sundown town, there are still those lasting messages, and those feelings do not quite go away. And, it is also about the perception. None of those who are not in a different world, but really across town but your neighbors. So, in Missouri there was a law passed that said if you are in a certain school district, you can go to an accredited school district. And, so last summer, when a bunch of kids from Normandy High School went to go out to Hopewell, Parents came out in mass and they said they feared drugs and gangs.

HAYES: Normandy is largely black, Hopewell is largely white --

LEE: Normandy is about 98 percent black, mostly poor. Hopewell, you know, it is mostly white, and middle class. They feared it. The white children embrace black children, but now they send the kids back because of all these laws. The real fear of these poor black people, you are going to come to our schools. You are going to rape our children and bring drugs and violence. And, that is still there based on little else because not like every black child out here is a criminal, but we are still dealing with that.

HAYES: Mr. Wright, what do you think we are going to see? I mean what is happened over the last 11 days, how is that going to change the politics, the perception, the kind of governance structure, not just here in Ferguson, but all around North County?

WRIGHT: You have to remember race is a money game. As long as people make money off of white fear, the game will keep being played. People need to be educated. No one cares about what color you are. They care about how they can make money off of you. As long as whites run, the game will continue to be played.

And, so, I think we have to educate ourselves and tell people how to follow the money to clear up the game. People still make money off of the whole thing of chasing whites out of neighborhoods. They are chasing them to neighborhoods where they are building brand new homes. That is how you sell them.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.END

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