9/11 Conspiracy Solved

The events of September 11, 2001 have left lasting scars on the psyche of America and other countries around the world. It set in motion a global understanding of modern terrorism, and sparked an ongoing war that shows no signs of abating. The desire to come to terms with this cataclysmic moment in history has taken many forms over the years - from somber mourning to reignited patriotism to outright rage.

But, one vocal segment of the population is driven by skepticism; from the earliest aftermath of the towers' collapse, they've charged that a mass conspiracy is at play. The boldly titled 9/11 Conspiracy Solved is a representation of this viewpoint.

Based on years of collected research from investigators Michael C. Ruppert, Mark H. Gaffney and Kevin Ryan, the film contends that 9/11 was the ultimate inside job. They assert that the plane attacks were orchestrated to mask a $240 billion dollar covert operation which was largely set in motion many years earlier as a means of weakening the Soviet Union following the Cold War. This operation was funded by $10 million dollar securities which were to become due on September 12, 2001.

Throughout the course of the film, the audience is assaulted with a rapid-fire collection of sketchily detailed charges involving recovered hard drives, specific victims who were targeted in the towers, suspicious money transfers which occurred in the moments before the attacks, and the role that insurance giant AIG may have played in the proceedings.

9/11 Conspiracy Solved isn't conceived with the sophistication or pacing that an experienced filmmaker could bring to the material, and it seems to have no sense of how effectively information can be delivered and absorbed. It's essentially a lecture recited at a break-neck pace and set to a powerpoint presentation. Over the course of 43 minutes, the film's narrator outlines a dizzying series of connections and inconsistencies - some of which could have easily merited deeper exploration on their own - but the very nature of the production, coupled with a troubling lack of authentication for some of its more incendiary claims, undermine the film's efforts to provoke its audience at nearly every turn.

Can't they understand that steel skyscrapers can't possibly "collapse" in the manner alleged? These structures were designed to support several times their loaded weight. The twins were designed also to withstand aircraft impacts. Burning jet fuel and office equipment can't melt or significantly weaken structural steel. Moreover, for such synchronous, symmetrical collapse, virtually every weight-bearing point on a given floor would have to fail at exactly the same moment, followed by the same thing occurring on the next lower floor, all the way down. This could never, ever happen absent some sort of controlled demolition. If there was some portion of the building that was severely compromised, we would see a localized failure, if anything, with twisting and partial collapse following the path of least resistance, not a symmetrical, total collapse through the core columns and other structural supports. Even if 3 floors were somehow wiped out in a flash, the remaining intact structure below that point would easily withstand the momentum of the falling upper portion, at least deflecting it in one direction or another, not allowing it to fall virtually without resistance through the strongest supports.

Besides the symmetry and synchrony, a dead giveaway is the speed at which the buildings "fell" (did they really fall, or did the towers disintegrate in place?), close to the rate one would see in free fall. It takes tremendous energy to collapse a steel skyscraper, and even more to convert most of it to dust, but a near-free fall collapse means that almost all of the potential energy of the structure and its contents is being used to draw the materials to the ground, without any significant energy left over to collapse anything in its path.

Regarding Building 7, Dutch demolition contractor Danny Jowenko, prior to his untimely death, stated his conviction that WTC 7 was brought down by controlled demolition. It certainly looks like it to my eye, and I find completely unsatisfactory NIST's contention (seconded by Popular Mechanics magazine) that the building buckled inward on one weakened column - the videos of the demise of WTC 7 instead show a symmetrical, synchronous collapse as we would expect in a controlled demolition, just as Jowenko concluded.

These issues explain why NIST dragged its feet on publishing any sort of explanation of the unprecedented collapses (the 3 steel skyscrapers in NYC would be the first 3 in history to collapse primarily due to fire).

And it's not just "conspiracy nuts" who are questioning the official story. Peter Ketcham, a former NIST employee, has gone on record saying that explanation we've been given is highly doubtful. In an interview, he stated among other things, that when he scrutinized the collapse of the 3 NYC skyscrapers, as well as NIST's report thereon, "What became immediately obvious to me was that there was overwhelming evidence that all 3 of those towers - 1, 2 and 7 - collapsed due to controlled demolition."

Those who cling to the official version of events, and claim that no such conspiracy could be concealed from the greater public, may have to revise their views. That is, what's more likely, that the laws of physics were suspended for one day in Lower Manhattan, or that your assumptions need revision about what's possible in the way of a criminal conspiracy?

I never could stand Bush Jr. Even when he was delivering what was supposed to be the most heartfelt speech about this heinous deception on the American public, I couldn't overlook that slight smirk on his self-satisfied mug. I believe he was another puppet involved in this up to his eyebrows, and his day of reckoning will arrive.

Including the Jewish owner of the 3 buildings and his son and daughter who just happened to be absent that day instead of being on the upper floor of one of the twin towers eating breakfast like they had done every morning before 9/11!

Randy
- 02/27/2018 at 12:55

I personally watched flight 93 turn over Cleveland, I was at Lorain waste water treatment plant so was 8 other guys on the back of my truck

Batvette are you serious there because I was under the impression and always have been that steel melts at 1700 I could be wrong there however don't try and tell people that office equipment ,I.e paper , computers ,monitors,tables etc etc when alight get hot enough to melt steel because that would be one of the dumbest claims I've heard since bush , Blair and all the other cronies swore that they had 100% knowledge that saddam had weapons capable of mass destruction I'm no scientist nor a fireman of any description but I know for a FACT that ,that's impossible for an office and all it's equipment to get anywhere near the heat needed not even to melt steel but just weaken it ,it just couldn't happen , you then of course go at the person your trying to belittle by stating the jet was full with it's fuel ,mmmm well generally long flights may fill up with fuel but never from state to state then the plane was hijacked going one way then another so when hit I'll guarantee it didn't even have a quarter of it's intake capability.When plane hit towers most of the fuel as seen went up in flames and the rest ,yes , burnt with the office and it's equipment ,so do me a little favour and find out exactly what heat jet fuel gets too when alight,I'm pretty sure the answer is there somewhere but too be honest from your comment I HONESTLY think it doesn't matter to you because I believe you are one of them that is either paid in one offs or it's your job to contradict anything that goes against the trollop we are fed by govts ,this is undoubtedly the worst cover up in history ,JFK has nothing on this

For them who call disbelievers sheeple are either here to state such idiocy or are total idiots,911 to say was an inside job is clutching at straws true however bush and his cronies knew what was coming and did nothing with thus action they have to take part blame for the deaths unless people are disregarding witnesses I.e Susan lingard , a C.I.A operative or was for she was jailed , stripped if her job because she came out and said that she had tried to warn top brasses and they ignored her then we have other countries mine included who warned USA too which again was ignored ,tower 7 should and would never come down due to a fire caused by falling debris ,the clean up was illegal for the govt got rid quickly of all the evidence after all this was a murder case of gigantic enormity and yet it all sailed over to china,the simple coincidences could and won't ever be portrayed as just that so if I'm a sheeple because I believe in evidence then so be it better that than to be a complete and utter disgrace of a person to believe in what the American govt try feed us all ,I'm no conspiracy nutter but I'm also an honest and truthful person with integrity unlike some sad asses m just like saddam had all them proven weapons of mass destruction and we all know how that panned out don't we

Well done. So much material. The interlocking of the ruling elites is startling yet true. The US is run by crime families and sadly the American public are stupefied beyond redemtion so I am afraid nothing will ever come of this. It's endless war, enslavement and lies until the whole shitaroo gets flushed down the toilet.

Those choosing to believe official govt positions on any number of things can be intelligent in other areas ...but they have an internal WORLD VIEW or CORE BELIEF that the govt is generally made up of people just trying to do good. So Firstly, they CANNOT even consider anything outside this "core belief view of their world" or their whole mental structure they decided they needed to erect to aid in their understanding of the world would be wrong. Secondly, people who need to erect such mental structures for understanding of things have an ego structure which doesn't allow them to be wrong, otherwise, they would consider themselves to be idiots and fools, just like they consider those who don't believe as they do ...RATHER than simply mistaken from jumping to preferred conclusions before they allowed themselves to look at enough evidence.

Fortunately not everyone has this "view of their world" problem which makes it nearly impossible to penetrate. You could waste hours upon hours rubbing their face in evidence and they will go off and find some like minded person who CLAIMS to have debunked or provides some other explanation (as ridiculous as it may be such as the pancake theory) and they will accept such explanations which are most convenient to suit their ego protected view of their world wherein govt is good and helpful; so it couldn't possibly be the govt.

At the moment I couldn't really tell you why some HAVE to DECIDE what is what early on, then refuse all facts and evidence that would go against such a premature decision of how things are or what happened. It could be anything. For some reason they have to decide "THIS is what I believe." It is akin to those who feel hot and jump into a river head first. To those who see that as being unwise they say, "hey its fine." Really? Just because you haven't pile driven your head into a sinker or a rock yet doesn't mean that will always be the case.

There are those who will CLAIM they have no dog in the fight and have unemotionally looked at all the evidence and have come to the conclusion that it wasn't an inside job. One can only laugh. They are exactly the same type as described who want to pretend they are not.

I cannot speak for "truthers" or whatever the mentally blockaded choose to label people who like myself were first initially felt that the military should use the guilty party's heads for soccer practice. However, the mentally unblockaded, upon seeing the evidence, naturally has to question the official line of nonsense.

To be sure the mentally blockaded are supported greatly by the owned propagandists called the major media. Such media continually reinforces what the govt and media have been training in them: If something is called a conspiracy theory to distance yourself from that or you will be considered a kook. That reinforcement has been very effective on a certain segment.

All in all it boils down to an ego problem. Those who run from anything labeled a conspiracy by the media, have been trained and conditioned to do so by the media, fear being wrong AND being considered a kook, so much so that they cannot view evidence as it is. They can look right past it as if it wasn't there and claim they looked at it. And automatically place undue weight upon those they have come across who claims that they have debunked it. Such debunkings of solid evidence means what to those who take evidence as it is, not shaded by their belief system? Nothing, just as it should be.

CitizenX has nailed it. Just trying to explain what I see in some friends who refuse to see. Although I'd prefer not to call them fools, since they are highly functional in other areas, just not when it comes to govt and their refusal to believe that the usa govt would do bad things on purpose.

However, it is a bit beyond naive to consider that such groups (Bergerbilders, CFO, etc.) run by the banksters which control a great deal of govt and the media they own are working for your best interests. If they make their money by getting it from you, just like the govt does, how is that in your best interest?

In fact ONLY the few politicians who have your best interests at heart are working to REDUCE the size and expense of govt thereby leaving you with more of your dough, providing you the ability to do something you want or need to do with it. However, many in govt believe they know better what to do with it, such as skim most of it into their and their friends pockets which is big govt SOCIALISM. They talk a great game, point to others as the guilty, and dribble a little to those they can buy votes from with such talk.

With as much proven FAKE news that has come to light these days (latter half of 2016+) due to independent investigative reporting, it must be apparent that such has been ongoing for a long time. Very evident to anyone not hoodwinked by the obama constant BS and clearly long before; in light of the Church commission questions to the CIA and their admission that they have their people placed within the media. You can view it on Youtube as well as other documentaries on this website. You can also view exCIA agents telling what they did and what went on, from a doc on this website. About supplying fake news and false information to politicians.

More evidence that the "govt is good believers or gullible major media(propagandists) believers" will have to look past.

If ANYONE can watch the way in which the buildings came down and not see that there's a HUGE problem with the government's story on 9/11, no amount of hard evidence can ever convince them of anything their limited intelligence will allow. They should be disregarded as fools.

In response to all the posters who come here only to talk about how silly it is people are still focused on this, why are you even posting here? Doesn't that mean you have more free time you could spend actually doing anything else that's functionally worth while than wasting your/everyones time posting poorly thought insults in a thread that, to your own description, is outside of your interest field?

Alas... how terrible is wisdom when it brings no profit to the wise, Johnny?
Hey, you ever watch the Mickey Mouse Club? 'Cause you know what today... today is? Today is Wednesday. It's anything can happen day.

Anyone who has taken an objective look at this event knows that the "official story" is not only improbable but implausible and in many ways actually impossible. It has all but become self evident. People who still believe that the government tells them should be pumping gas and emptying garbage bins for the real human beings.

A non...after reading the thread it is very apparent that you did not watch this doc.

If you want to look at two done by two groups of hundreds of credited and accomplished professionals...that offer no opinions as to motive or theories but only analyizes evidence look at 9/11 intercepid or any of that he subsequent films produced by this group of pilots. Or look at 9/11 evidence speaks out. Done by highly trained and skilled architects and engineers who are questioning information based on evidence and their concern of safety in building skyscrapers. The same building safety standards are used to this day and if a steel tube structure skyscraper can fall due to a fire then safety standards need to be reevaluated accordingly...VERY GOOD QUESTION!!!

Just to be devil's advocate I'd like to see a documentary of a random event and link all sorts of coincidental issues to it to prove any event can be considered conspiratorial if one looks hard enough.

Jack 1952 You work for the government, at least the dark. Bush/Cheney government. It was obviously against the laws of physics that 3 huge buildings collapsed at free fall speed. People are very deluded to accept the government version of this and a third Bush is actually running for the Presidency. The Bush family are nazis and have run the USA for many years. Jack 1952 you seem to be one of them.

Hi, I am always overwhelmed with the words used here (and other documentaries) there are so many meanings I dont know. It seems I need to learn a new language to see what others do regarding 9/11 researcher info. I know its my responsibility to educate myself but I wish there was a class or a book like "9/11 for dummies".

bbc found six of them an after that fbi director robert muller came out n said they had no idea of the identity of the hijackers just to keep their story from looking to stupid no hijackers no one to fly the plane----------------------------------- chew on that for awhile susan g.

1 building falling would have been a possibility, 2 buildings falling would have been a hell of a coincidence, 3 buildings falling is preposterous.
Add to that, we have not been shown surveillance tapes of a plane crashing in the Pentagon, knowing full well several cameras were recording the surroundings....and if there were no cameras, then why the hell not?
No wonder architects and engineers and the population around the world are questioning 9/11.

oQ yes thats alot of coindences n yes their was video but the FBI confiscated it n would'nt release it and by the time they did the hang mans noose had already been tied 19 times

JACK OLIVER
- 02/15/2014 at 23:02

the pentagon had 172 security camera round it but you or the rest of us wont ever see that film

JACK OLIVER
- 02/15/2014 at 19:56

Heres another tip for you if they didnt have nothing to hide why the FBI confiscatethe videos of that hotel n gas station n would'nt release that video and when they did they just release 5 frames from camera that was at the pentagon not the hotel or gas sation , and yes it was airplane that hit wtc but dont make out like you seen it .

Why you think they waited so long to bring down bluiding 7, 9 hours later was that the plan---------or was they hopin twc 1 would crush it,, if that was the case they would'nt have wasted time n rigging b. 7 ,, but when twc 1 did'nt hit it, they went to plan b. So they had to rig it regardless they could'nt take the chance we need to go back n look at twc 1 when it came down .... I think tower one was the only one that fell over instead of straight down n toward bluiding 7

Building 7 burned for SEVEN HOURS! Why is it so impossible for you to believe that for this reason alone it finally fell?

Let me ask you this question. What exactly do you think happened? And who exactly do you think did it and why?

Please don't tell me things like it wasn't commercial aircraft that hit the towers, Pentagon,and crashed in Penn. because I was standing in Battery Park watching the towers fall on 9/11. Oh and my neighbor is the wife of the late actor Anthony Perkins (Psycho the movie) and her sister was on the plane that crashed into the Pentagon, and yeah she didn't come home that day. It's so insulting for the thousands of survivors who lost loved ones to have to hear these ridiculous theories regarding what REALLY happened to them.

So please give me your best explanation of what you think really happened and how it could have happened. I'm waiting. BTW I welcome anyone else's theory.

Mo As
- 02/13/2014 at 03:41

It's your people who did the doc and reveal the truth not the Saudi Gov, anyway believe or not 9/11 was conspiracy, Saudis and Muslims are innocents of what ur media have faked on them.

susan g
- 02/13/2014 at 19:35

Okay, you say 9/11 was a conspiracy.

Then tell me what exactly happened. How did it happen and by WHO did it happen.

You can't just say it was a conspiracy and the Saudi's and Muslims had nothing to do with it. You have to have a better explanation. You HAVE to have facts!

What are YOUR facts that tell you Mo As that it wasn't 19 Saudi's with box cutters?

I'm all ears! I want to hear YOUR explanation of how the whole thing went down.

Millswah
- 02/14/2014 at 04:32

It's frustrating and bitterly disappointing you can see what really happened that day and its all well documented. Yes innocent people lost their lives but for what? Terrorism? Or some corporate bankers who wanted to get rich??

look at the 9/1 commision. Why was the iron shipped off to be recycled so quickly without it being tested properly? look at bushes connections to Osama bin Laden and his brother (worked for the CIA). Silverstein also made a HUGE profit on the attacks.

if a plane hit the pentagon, release the footage. simple? They haven't, and a plane couldnt fly at that speed that low and go through lights without the wings coming off and losing control. Use your common sense!

Where was the debris of the plane that crash landed? just a huge crater. no bodies found?

No black boxes were found either, does that not seem strange? But a passport was found of the alleged attacker, who apparently hijacked the plane. Not only that but they failed to scramble fighter jets to take down the planes because they were on exercise/training for the exact same scenario that occurred. - they had never failed to intercept a flight on radar until 9/11. To which they failed to intercept 4 planes. Does that not ring alarm bells?

All the eyewitness accounts from police and firefighters who said they heard booms, bangs, simultaneously from lower and upper floors.

The buildings fell in free-fall speed. It shouldn't have collapsed from within - only a controlled demolition does that. thermite was found as well - military explosive.

And jet fuel cannot burn for that long and cannot melt iron - there was molten lava at the site for weeks after? why was that?

Also Bush/CIA knew the attacks were coming.

WTC7 came down like a demolition, the top falls in on itself. high buildings have burned for more than 7 hours and never collapsed.

Also the architect said it was built to with sand several Boeing collisions.

Bush has also been caught LYING about where he first heard and seen the attacks - He's in a school classroom (on video), when the second tower hits and thats when he's told about the attacks, but he says, during a speech, he was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go inside and he SEEN the 1st plane hit the towers on the TV. He never seen a plane hit the towers because it wasnt seen directly, like the second plane hitting the towers. A film crew documenting new york fire fighters recorded it and that wasnt aired until the next day. SO HOW DID HE SEE IT ON TV??? He was in a classroom.

It happened so the patriot act would be signed. then we all become terrorists, and lose our rights. Terrorism isn't defined either, have a look and see if there's and absolute definition of terrorism?

Also there's a huge amount of profit in war. A war which was funded by America. Al-Qauda wasfunded by CIA/US dont believe me? check out Operation Cyclone.

Oh and where were the alleged weapons of mass destruction? All lies!!

Do your RESEARCH and DON'T listen to mainstream media.

susan g
- 02/14/2014 at 19:19

Every single thing you mention has been addressed and an equal if not more plausible explanation for was given.

I've never heard that Bush claimed he watched the 1st plane hit the tower. That's ridiculous.

I believe Bush used 9/11 as an excuse to invade Iraq. Period.

Again, okay you don't believe the official report on 9/11. Fine. But what do you think DID happen? You see all you are doing is throwing out maybe's, what ifs, and whys. All you have are a bunch of suspicions. Nothing even close to solid evidence. I did see plane wreckage at the Pentagon! A piece of the tail was lying front and center in front of the building right after it happened. The light posts were also bent just as you would have expected if the plane clipped them coming in. Have you ever seen the horrifying result of a commercial jet nose diving into the ground at a high rate of speed? There's nothing bigger than a shoebox and a large hole left. What was seen in Penn. was what one would totally expect to find.

I suggest you actually read the 9/11 report. It's more than 500 pages of documentation. It's all there from the interviews with the people at the flight schools who gave the terrorists flying lessons to the information that was ignored by our government leading up to 9/11.

If you are going to dispute what happened then you have to have a provable and believable explanation for what DID happen. Nothing you've said hasn't either been disproven or is nothing but speculation on your part.

I believe there were many people , journalists and investigative reporters, along with many others who looked for another explanation for what happened. Well it's been 12 years now and not one piece of concrete evidence has come to light that proves conclusively that it went down any other way than the 9/11 commission concluded.

JACK OLIVER
- 02/16/2014 at 02:51

that was'nt no tail section from a 767 an where was the rest of the plane 767 weights 100 tons an you seen some piece of scrap metal on the ground that could have came from any where no engines no TAIL SECTION no seats and i have read that report which six of ten of the commissioners said the government lied bout the offical story an to tell you the truth which you would'nt know if it ran you over,how could you be so blind they killed your follow americans n got away with it,and you want to no why they did it to cover up the 240 billion dollars that ole man bush used to buy up the collasping russian economy as a ten year security bond that wastook out on sept 11 1991 and if you dont believe me look up wat is CALL THE GREAT RUBLE SCAM

JACK OLIVER
- 02/16/2014 at 03:25

and yes I have seen other sites where planes have crash and their was always wreckage all around and big sections of planes everywhere they would'nt have simply vanished maybe in your magic world that you live in where steel just disaapears and building just fall over

JACK OLIVER
- 02/15/2014 at 20:09

so I guess you believe in the offical story of the one colunm collapse in building 7

JACK OLIVER
- 02/15/2014 at 21:59

and another thing why would you expected miss penkin home that day any way ,,, she was on her way to lax just wondering

JACK OLIVER
- 02/10/2014 at 11:14

Everybody knows or should that bush or bushes was behind this and if you dont you got to be deaf dum n blind

I'm not deaf, dum, or blind, and I DON'T think the Bush or the Bushes had anything to do with it. I believe it was the Saudi's who were seen on video tape going through security to board the various planes that would later go on to crash. I believe the many phone conversations with the flight attendants and passengers who were on the planes describing in excellent detail what was happening and who (those Saudi males seen going through security) was doing it. There were dozens of phone calls between husbands and wives, mothers and fathers, sisters and brothers. Are you saying this was fake and none it really happened? Really?

So come on sport! Lets hear your assessment of what REALLY happened and how it REALLY went down. I can't wait to hear your iron clad explanation.

JACK OLIVER
- 02/15/2014 at 20:59

yes susan g I heard some of theses so call phone calls and it sounds like two people talkin that did'nt know one another and as for the calls them selves in 2001 their was'nt enough cell tower to keep a call goin for 23 minutes in a airplane goin 500 mph.FLYING at 30000 feet and why did'nt you here anything in the back ground your airplan is hi jacked flying bad n everybody is quite remember when cell came out n you had to search for a signal specialY over the remote area them planes was flyin over and yes they was FAKE---- and as for the hijacker goin through security I only seen one picture that was time stamp and that was at the airport in maine boston's that day did'nt work for some reason same at washington so that film could have been of any time and dont know of dozens of calls between family memberstheses could have been anybody and the one I did just seemed fake theses so called people is something to support the offical story--- than theses hijackers that could turn off the transponders BUT could'nt un key the mike so they wouldnt broad cast over the air but more icing for the "cake" offical story---- you can deny all you want but ou'll always be on defence defending the offical story that they changed 5 times ,

Roi Truax
- 12/20/2013 at 00:42

I've seen many of the 9/11 docs, including the engineer and architects one. I understand the case being presented and for the most part, I've fewer problems with them than with the "official" explanation. My biggest overall feeling though is... Indifference. Really. I wish I were kidding around, but I look at these things and hear guys like Jones and Russo yakking about rights and freedom and sovereignty and NWO and the banks and think, "Oh well America, there it is the way you made it". No matter though... There's a sale at Target/Walmart/Macy's this weekend!

your right we voted them in there at least some of you did i didnt vote for bush either time

drstookey
- 10/26/2013 at 14:38

I have read many of the previous comments and I am amazed at how people throw ideas around as truth and call others "idiots" for having the ability to think and speak freely. Regardless of the many "conspiracy theory" documentaries there are and the amount of "holes" people are claiming either side has you do not need much more than a high school education to understand what is really happening. I am also amazed at how many people in this country live in a bubble and think the rest of the world, outside of the US, are uneducated evil doers that hate the US because of our freedoms. A woman and her family in Florida volunteered to have government RFD chips implanted into themselves because they felt in some way it would help keep them safe from the "evil doers". Is this freedom? Know history! Know even the smallest amount of physics and the properties of materials, know something other than what has been fed to you via mass media and the internet and do something about it because your "freedoms" are disappearing as fast the worlds resources. And when those resources pass the tipping point and the 1% that control whats left are telling you you need to fight for them to get any, under the pretense of safety and freedom, you can look back at all of these "theories" or "truths" or whatever you want to call them and understand why it all happened.

Why are so many people suckered in by this 911 conspiracy fluff? I'm amazed how someone can suddenly decide after watching "loose change" or some other such nonsense that they now possess the skills and knowledge of a fleet of structural engineers. How many of you have actually seriously questioned this comfortable little delusion that's been woven for you? What's it like believing you know a secret that the rest of us are too dumb to get?

Running around the place shouting "WAKE UP SHEEPLE!" and all this other inane crud is not helping your public image either you bunch of lunatics, calm the f--k down.

with all due respect, maybe you should look up Susan Lindauer who was a UN operative and a whistleblower. she told Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld in May of 2001 that there was planning to blow up the towers on September 11th. this poor lady woke up to the CIA arresting her, her husband, and her children. she spent one year in jail. and now that Bush has introduced the Patriot Act and all your rights are worth zero, they should hang Bush by his balls
. Its all online, maybe B4 ppl start bashing everyone, they should do a little research, now ask yoursepf if it was an inside job,

jaberwokky
- 11/03/2013 at 18:23

I'm not disagreeing with you regarding Bush and his administration, hanging by the balls would be something I'd normally avoid but in this case I'd make an exception. However it's not because I believe he and his cronies blew up 3,000 of his own people. The sinister nature of what this particular fantasy entails and the nature of how truthers will only seek out information to corroborate their delusion is disturbing to say the least.

Your post implies that Susan Lindauer was arrested because she was a threat to their master plan. A cursory glance around the web will tell you that this was not the case. The use of the Patriot Act to stop her was extremely heavy handed, childish and deplorable but the charges brought against her suggest she was acting against the interests of national security.

wreek havok
- 11/03/2013 at 18:56

Hi and thanks for the reply. I probably should have paid closer attention to what she was saying in her interview. I try not to be swayed by someone's opinion, I like to think I formed my own when I listen to some of these people being interviewed. Just to change the subject for a sec, you owe it to yourself to watch the BBC doc on the OJ case.....totally mind blowing when you watch what this PI from Texas uncovers. I'll try and get you the link

JACK OLIVER
- 02/11/2014 at 20:57

We have to seek out the truth cause you dum ases believe that load of crap that bush fed you

Joshua Marks
- 11/03/2013 at 07:37

Well, this is embarrassing JWokky... I hate to have to point this out in response to your flurry of "keyboard whacking":

"...how someone can suddenly decide after watching "loose change" or some other such nonsense that they now possess the skills and knowledge of a fleet of structural engineers."

Um, you apparently aren't familiar with the documentary RIGHT HERE [yes, shouting... but it's with laughter - relax] titled 9/11: Explosive Evidence - Experts Speak Out. Yeah, it's a documentary with hours and hours of testimony by - get this - over 2,000 structural engineers and architects! Wow - sometimes the truth actually is funny as it slaps idiocy in the face... No worries, I'm blushing *for* you.

Oh, but by the way - you might want to check it out, it's free too! And right here - take a break from the dangers of having to read the lunacy of the comments section and have a breath of fresh air - two - thousand - structural - engineers. Yep, a FLEET!

jaberwokky
- 11/03/2013 at 17:51

Embarrassing? Are you humiliating me with your rapier wit?

Don't presume I'm not familiar with any of the information you present, I've watched plenty of 9/11 documentaries. However, I look at these stories from all possible sides so that I can develop a balanced and informed opinion. When you take the time to do the same you'll start to see the flaws in your belief system.

Good luck with the razor sharp slap downs, you're doing great champ.

Joshua Marks
- 11/03/2013 at 19:34

Jaberwokky, you've run around calling people "jokes," lunatics, seriously fear for the world for "our" lack of "getting it"... Below, you bemoan that you are "shouting into the bowels of idiocy..." Well, pull your head out of your a*s - we can hear you - you know that right?

If you want to defend the thoroughly discredited NIST report - begin. These are serious topics for serious people and many of us get tired of people like you holding their pee-pee in one hand and berating us as you dance at the bathroom door with a speech-to-text headset on as you pause between World Of Warcraft battle sessions.

"Rapier wit"? No, I'm not a Dungeons and Dragons character - you humiliate yourself on such serious topics - despite having watched "plenty" (which is unconvincing to say the least, Mr. "Balanced Opinion") - if you want to take up the arguments of "material evidence," defend NIST, point to 19 hijackers - most of which were declared to be still alive after the event - get on with it son - you're the one that declared having a lock on common sense! Otherwise, maybe you and your genius "brothers-in-arms" trolling on these serious topics should go spend your time in shallower water arguing why Mr. Burns couldn't really block the sun over Springfield.

jaberwokky
- 11/03/2013 at 19:49

Your persecution complex is taking you for a ride. Cool your boot heels.

No More Lies
- 11/07/2013 at 19:47

What I find interesting about rational people like yourself, is that as soon as they're asked for facts, they resort to name calling and dismiss the other side as nut jobs.

NIST itself has stated that there was no evidence at all to indicate that the temperatures in building 7 were anywhere near what they would need to be to soften steel. This is based on their own testing and analysis of the steel pulled from the wreckage.

However, they still argue that it was fire that brought down the build, despite, by their own admission, there being no evidence to support this.

Does this really sound like a logical, rational conclusion based on science?

jaberwokky
- 11/07/2013 at 21:49

And what I find interesting about people like yourself is that no matter how regularly, concisely and extensively your questions have already been answered (ad nauseam) elsewhere you'll ignore this because they're not the answers you expected to hear, it's not good enough for you, you'd rather jump at shadows. That smacks of delusion to me and I'm finding it ever harder to tolerate. Try to think about it from that point of view for a few minutes.

There's not a single shred of evidence to suggest that 911 was anything other than what it was reported to be, tentative allegations don't cut it. The 911 scenario as laid out by the truther cult is ludicrous and embarrassing.

I'll concede you are right regarding my initial outburst. The irony of acting like a lunatic to draw attention to other people's lunacy doesn't escape me :)

Any way, I've played this game long enough, I'm bored, time to move on.

No More Lies
- 11/07/2013 at 22:46

That's my point, it hasn't been answered, not by NIST or any other experts, or by you.

You find anywhere in the official explanations or online, anywhere, that explains where the energy came from to cause the catastrophic destruction of the buildings.

The North tower was hit between floors 93 and 99. This is the top of the building, a very small portion in relation to the rest of the of the building, and yet it had the energy to crush the perfectly sound structure beneath it, into dust. Which, as I mentioned, was engineered to withstand a weight load much greater than was crashing down. You can verify this for yourself.

And yet you find this believable? It defies the laws of physics. And you say it's ludicrous and embarrassing to question this?

I find your intellectual laziness and lack of understanding of high school level physics embarrassing

And it further proves my point that people like you, who spend you're time calling us idiots, have not spent any time actually researching the official story. You don't even know what the official version is that you are defending. But you believe it unquestioningly.

Perhaps you have no formal education, and therefore have little experience with critical thinking.

jaberwokky
- 11/07/2013 at 22:55

Oh you know me so well ... is that you mom? As I've already said, I'm done.

No More Lies
- 11/07/2013 at 23:14

Of course you're done. You're out of your league intellectually, and in typical fashion with you people, as soon as you're confronted with facts, you excuse yourself from from the discussion.

Spend some time studying the topic so you can at least defend your position

jaberwokky
- 11/07/2013 at 23:21

I can't, I'm off to lend my expertise to this other theory. Apparently some time back there was this boat called the titanic that sank as a result of an iceberg collision. Now as you pointed out I'm no expert in physics but I smell something funny. I mean there's no way frozen water could sink the unsinkable, right?

Why was the boat out that far?
Where was the iceberg going?
What secret cargo was the big boat carrying?
Was it actually a boat?
If Leonardo Di Caprio really did die that day then who is that guy in Inception that looks like him?

All very important questions.

I'll keep you posted by blabbing ignorantly all over documentaries as I find them. Wish me luck :)

No More Lies
- 11/07/2013 at 23:41

You should've left it at "I'm done"

By replying with mockery, while failing to address the very basic question I posed, only further erodes your credibility. And confirms my suspicion you have no understanding of the topic at hand

This is by no means the first discussion I've had with someone who was reduced to childish gibberish. It's typical of people who have been exposed as having little understanding of a position they're arguing for. Another tactic is to take their ball and go home, or to throw themselves on the floor in a screaming fit.

I presented you with facts, and you replied with nonsense. Why is it that you stand on the side of logic, reason and fact and yet you have displayed none of these in your comments?

Dress warm, the Northern Atlantic is very cold this time of year

jaberwokky
- 11/07/2013 at 23:55

Ah please, mom, this is getting embarrassing for both of us.

Edit: Mockery is all your delusion is fit for. Take care :)

No More Lies
- 11/08/2013 at 01:24

Of course I'm deluded, I believe the laws of physics should be the same everywhere on Earth.

Only sane people with a firm grip on reality understand that Newton's Laws of Motion only apply when it's convenient.

Why don't you please put me out of my deluded misery and explain why they didn't apply that day. After all, the best way to mock me is prove that I'm wrong.

mraliyusuf69@hotmail.com
- 11/09/2013 at 20:24

just read your debate, and i usually dont comment, but no more lies just OWNED you

gsjikwblao
- 12/24/2013 at 01:35

You just sit back and wait

Rick Hart
- 01/14/2014 at 01:03

Quite the contrary. It is, after all, the thousands of structural engineers, physicists, demolition experts, etc who are demanding a real investigation. Anyone can have a theory. The peer review process in *real* science can bat the ball back and forth until a plausible explanation is arrived at. The people at NIST, FEMA, & ASCE will not accept or debate alternate theories. If truth is really what you're after, you think they would be open to criticism, if for no other reason than to put the issue to bed.

Ron
- 01/26/2014 at 06:42

Well said!

JACK OLIVER
- 02/09/2014 at 12:51

Thats what their wanting us to do rick to just forget about the whole thing while 3000 people was murder that day for WHAT to cover up the money old man bush stoled to rip off russia and his son cover it up with his group of thuggs, and his executive orders that hid the records of pasts presidents for a while an his testimony that was given off record and behind closed doors so lets not forget or the past will come back to haunt you with their so called new pearl harbor

Jon Anderson
- 02/04/2014 at 02:46

HAHA you are wasting your time. The people who have decided it's a conspiracy will not be swayed, they will change the back story over and over as things are debunked. Two buildings got hit by enormous aircraft going 500 mph. That's an incredible amount of force. The fuel caught everything on fire inside the gaping holes, and heated the steel structure to a temperature where it's tensile strength was lowered below a point where it could support the building, and it gave way. Everyone that thinks 9/11 is a conspiracy happens to also have a PHD in google, they have not taken chemistry, or physics, or math, or anything else useful in understanding what's actually at work. If you think you can fly a 737 into a skyscraper and it the building should survive.... I just don't understand how someone could be that s*upid.

Joshua Marks
- 10/22/2013 at 07:38

Doubters that it was an "inside job" demonstrate that the idiocracy is in full bloom. You do understand that the NIST report is a "conspiracy theory," no? "19 hijackers... blah, blah..." This is a theory of multiple players "conspiring." Get it?
There are 47 documentaries RIGHT HERE under the section titled "9/11." Do a little research - you are not required to begin hitting those keys on your computer machine every time you watch a film on a topic you clearly have no depth in because a thought bounced around your head.
Doubters, dig in and hold on to your seat as your world turns upside down - there's a truth movement sweeping the world that is ready to catch you when you're ready to let go...

47 docs ... So? That doesn't mean s**t and you know it. There could be 447 and it wouldn't make a difference. They all rehash the same tired old disproven schlock and ignore any evidence. How many docs are there out there purporting to prove the existence of aliens? How many for fake moon landings? What about the bullshit cancer cure claims? If there were 47 docs out there telling you that rubbing butter on your nuts will make you lay duck eggs would you be running around the internet screaming that too? IN ALLCAPS!!!!!!!!?

In my experience the people debunking your bulls**t cult crusade are the ones who have done the proper research. They don't have to shout as loud as you loudmouths to make a point either. Funny how the truth works.

Please stop this nonsense, you're distracting from real issues affecting everyone, issues which urgently need the attention you're leaching off and which suffer when cast in the same light as your lunacy.

wreek havok
- 10/26/2013 at 00:47

with all due respect, maybe you should look up Susan Lindauer who was a UN operative and a whistleblower. she told Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld in May of 2001 that there was planning to blow up the towers on September 11th. this poor lady woke up to the CIA arresting her, her husband, and her children. she spent one year in jail. and now that Bush has introduced the Patriot Act and all your rights are worth zero, they should hang Bush by his balls
. Its all online, maybe B4 ppl start bashing everyone, they should do a little research, now ask yoursepf if it was an inside job,

Joshua Marks
- 11/03/2013 at 00:43

Yes, thank you for so vividly demonstrating my point. "Jabberwokky" indeed. And to make the point about "all caps" in all caps, followed by, what is it 6 or 7 exclamation points and a question mark - impressive and clever Jabberwokky.
I'm not sure if you see the "idiocy" yet, but carry on... Btw, my caps prior were in lieu of the inability to use bold formatting.
"47 documentaries..." is not a point of material evidence, but a point of evidentiary reference material. The material evidence is in the 47 documentaries (e.g., nano particulate thermite). *are you taking notes?* I won't cover the massive evidence presented, as that is actually the point of... ahem, dare I mention it again? - the 47 documentaries.

Joshua Marks
- 11/03/2013 at 18:35

For proper context here: JabberWokky had previously replied with being genuinely concerned for the world for having lunatics like "me" writing in the comment section - and is dismayed at having to share [his] planet (with me).

[Jabberwokky - your running through and cleaning up your graffiti is appreciated by some I'm sure, but ruins the continuity of the thread]

jaberwokky
- 11/03/2013 at 19:58

My replies were deleted by the mods, not me. You'll see that when it happens to you.

Edit: I'm done with this nonsense. You're just too childish.

Joshua Marks
- 11/03/2013 at 20:17

Apologies and appreciate the clarification.

Edit: Thanks for playing.

No More Lies
- 11/07/2013 at 19:58

"In my experience the people debunking your bulls**t cult crusade are the ones who have done the proper research"

Really? They have yet to explain where the energy required to pulverize three steel and concrete buildings came from.

Even if the top part of the buildings sustained catastrophic damage from the impact of the planes, which NIST itself states didn't happen, the top portions of the buildings collapsing down did not have the necessary energy to bring down the rest of the buildings, let alone turn them to powder.

The vast majority of the buildings were structurally sound and designed to withstand far more weight than was crashing down. This if an indisputable fact regarding the engineering of the buildings.

So where did the energy come from? It's very basic physics, and you yourself should understand this.

Greg Burton
- 10/08/2013 at 21:32

Another flaming, molten, reeking, stinking brick in the now massive wall of incontrovertible direct and circumstantial evidence; substantiated by means, motive, and opportunity (cui bono) that shrieks, cries out, admonishes 911 was an inside job.

I'm sick to death of all these time-wasting conspiracy theorists,It's just so pointless.. The JFK nonsense,area 51,the ' fake' Moon landings,911....get a life people and do something worthwhile.Put your mental energy Into studying real,amazing and life-changing areas. Quantum physics Is more mind-blowing than any silly theory.How about trying to find a solution to world hunger or curing disease? Think of all the multiple man-hours that multiple people are wasting discussing all this rubbish which Is never going to be proved one way or the other - what Is the point? I weep for all that mental power being wasted....and for what? Nothing has ever come from ANY of these theories and nothing ever will so why bother?

You're wasting your breath here man, this is where common sense comes to die. Nice to see you try though. :)

Dave Ace
- 09/16/2013 at 00:42

Reality theorists, I now believe,, are way worse than conspiracy theorists. If you ask just one of them to "not" be able to find the factual links shown in the documentary (even just using the dreaded Google), the response to the question quickly degrades into amusing and uneducated attacks on credibility and assumptions of your "side" of the issue... (I didn't say I choose a side?). Like the White Rabbit in Carroll's Wonderland, they disappear down the holes their heads usually fill and the truthful response to that simple question vanishes with them. It certainly makes it easier to choose that imaginary "side"! Have a nice day. :)

translation: "this documentary contains cold, hard facts laid out in a non-sensational way. no flashing lights n pulsing sounds. it was too grown up for me. so it is boring."

or maybe i am wrong, and maybe you arent here for information, but for edutainment.
either way, everything this guy says can be researched and verified.

"this is no documentary..." i dont know what your idea of a documentary is, but... lol

AddNewComment1
- 09/05/2013 at 03:27

a documentary is usually from an objective point of view and shows both sides of a controversy. This is a one-sided conspiracy theorist opinion. If all of these "facts" were so easily discovered...why isn't everyone screaming about it?

Touchy
- 09/14/2013 at 19:13

Well this guy here made a movie about it...

Badnews Bear
- 10/14/2013 at 02:53

objective point of view? impossible for humans!

Jayz Shahid
- 07/11/2013 at 16:45

Most Highest - Everest
Most Largest - Russia
Most Longest - The Nile
Most Fooled - Americans
Wake up!, your government fooled you. Get them !

Hey folks! This stuff is real, We The People are actually under attack and living in a fascist police state and it is up to us to make sure that everybody is aware of it and that we hold all of these neocons responsible for their crimes against humanity. It goes much further than the White House. Looking at the inactivity of our houses of congress and our court system appointing our presidents regardless of the will of We The People, through to Jamie Diamon and the rest of the 1% who have confiscated and destroyed our national wealth, WE HAVE TO HOLD ALL OF THESE TRAITORS RESPONSIBLE. That, or stick our heads in the sand and hope for the best. Those odds look considerably slim.

ok so why wasn't the fighter planes called up?
or why no1 see a commercial airliner?
why the underneath of the plane matches military and not civilian?
good honest hard working firemen n policemen say they heard bombs.
what good footage shows the plane hit the pentagon? ...... with our technology????

are there is so much more that makes me wonder??

as for the government they need to start remembering their lies and start proving their innocence.

just watched about 20hrs of conspiracy theory's on how it was the government and iv got to admit they have a lot of strong evidence proving a lot of s*it, were all the governments evidence has been proven to be wrong and i haven't seen nothing on Muslims 2 be fair except the hijackers! but even they wasn't through and through Muslims (drink drugs) plus they were all cleared access to the country by important people.and even shared rooms with cia ?? ABIT F**KING DODGY IF U ASK ME

I think the biggest thing is that people should really open their eyes and watch the collapse. I have never thought the two towers looked like demolitions. Building 7 appears to look more like what i see in the other pictures, but that is likely do to so much damage from buildings one and two hitting it. And I agree that these so called "engineers" always use misdirection when leaving out little facts, such as these were damaged buildings, no equivalent to a other burning skyscrapers not hit by planes or fallen on by two enormous structures.

Just because the 9/11 Commission report doesn't explain in depth, word for word, EVERY SINGLE DETAIL AND HOW IT HAPPENED, doesn't mean that it's a farce. If anything, it proves even more that the government had no idea what was going on. Would you have liked it better if they came back three days later with a fully concluded investigative report perfectly explaining everything? I don't know about you guys, but THAT would seem rather fishy to me. The fact that the 9/11 commission report has a few holes in it is a good thing...it shows that the government didn't EXACTLY know what happened, that was just the conclusion they drew with the facts that they had. 9/11 conspiracy theorists are f--king nut jobs, to say the least. Most of them just hate George W. Bush and want to make him look like a worse president than he already looks. The s*it is over. Nobody will ever PROVE that the government carried out 9/11(probably because they didn't), so everybody should just kinda sort of shut the f*ck up about it.

Doesn't mean that it's a hoax. There are many holes in the theory of evolution, doesn't mean that it's false. I know I'm up against an entire commentary section full of 9/11 conspiracy theorists who hated George W., but bring it on. Did you not pay any attention whatsoever when he was in office. The biggest reason 9/11 conspiracy theorists claim that he had to carry out 9/11 is something called "The False Flag Policy". As a 9/11 conspiracy theorist, I'm sure you're fully aware of what this is. He originally came out and said that it was caused by a terrorist group led by Osama Bin Laden, and that he was in Afghanistan. We went there, but very very briefly, then it was immediately to Iraq, even though there were no rumors whatsoever that Bin Laden was there, and 6 months after 9/11, in March of 2002, you can find video of Mr. Bush addressing the nation and saying that he's not even looking for Bin Laden anymore, and that he honestly couldn't care less of his whereabouts. What I'm saying is that George Bush did whatever the fu*k he wanted to do. Why would he need to kill almost 3,000 innocent Americans to invade the wrong country? Use logic.

D Saleh
- 06/06/2013 at 03:51

Again, you are ranting about what you don'tor sorry are incapable of comprehending. Just stop embarrassing yourself. Do you know anything about Osama bin Laden? NOOOO you only know what they show you on the news. Did you know Osama worked for the CIA? Don't Google it now and come and say you did because if you had known you wouldn't have said what you stated in your post. JUST STOP POSTING IGNORANT SH*****T.

Alaskies
- 06/07/2013 at 02:01

Prove to me what you just said. EXACTLY. YOU CAN'T. . Osama Bin Laden working for the CIA...where did you hear that? Did you actually see it? Do you have A SHRED of evidence to prove it, other than word of mouth from other complete r*tards such as yourself? The answer is no. Unless you can show me a credible source that proves that what you just said is even partially factual, YOU are the ignorant r*tard. The only reason I'm getting so much hate is because look at this video, where it's posted, the title. 99% of the people who come on here are conspiracy theorists with no proof of the words that spew from their mouths except the words from each other. Pathetic.

rainmaker
- 08/02/2013 at 05:30

"Did you actually see it?" Ha-ha! :D

Statements like this sound like "How do you know Obama was given birth by a woman? Did you actually see it?" It's virtually impossible to discuss anything with such a person, who is stuck in a 1x1x1 inch box.

Just saying, think a bit before you say something.

rainmaker
- 08/02/2013 at 05:15

Arguing about 9/11 is stupid for both sides, because normal people will never know the actual truth. But one thing is clear: George W. Bush, just like most of world leaders, didn't have ANY part in decision-making, 99% of all politicians are just puppets. It's crazy that many people still think that presidents and primer ministers still rule around the globe. They are nobody, just spokesmen with more or less clean reputation to sustain a decent public image. We probably know about 9/11 as much as George W. Bush does, meaning that he also doesn't know the full truth.

Logic is always good, but only if it's intelligent and follows common sense and doesn't contradict critical thinking. For example, "pull-the-trigger-and-get-your-banana" is also logic, but not something to be proud of.

MJK
- 05/10/2013 at 00:39

you live in another world .. mentally i mean .. but its okay .. atleast tht hw ur govt wants you to think.

Alaskies
- 05/25/2013 at 07:58

Put together a complete sentence, spelling everything correctly and using proper grammar, then we'll talk about how I "live in another world, mentally". What a joke.

Booya
- 05/25/2013 at 22:07

No one will "shut up" about it Alaskies. This would be dangerous for future generations, and future generations will be made aware of goes on with the entrenched, out of control elements in government and agencies by simply learning about it. Should it be any coincidence that a "Commission" for 9/11 was wholly politically motivated and inadequate? Just look at the WARREN Commission and you will understand. 9/11 was not a new phenomenon of corruption.

batvette
- 05/30/2013 at 12:55

Wholly politically motivated? How? Even if it were, it was done by politicians. Is this news to Pollyanna?
I get it. The Warren Commission was corrupt because it didn't reveal a conspiracy as you wanted it to. The 9/11 commission was corrupt because it didn't reveal a conspiracy as you wanted it to.
You can have your crazy beliefs. Do get back to us when you have a peer review journal published research piece of rebuttal to the NIST report. Do get back to us when you have an iota of evidence it was an inside job.

Alaskies
- 06/01/2013 at 03:48

I couldn't have worded it better myself. These people are so crazy that they think the president of the USA killed almost 3,000 of it's own innocent citizens so it could invade another country, but according to MJK, WE'RE the ones who live in another world lol.

Booya
- 08/27/2013 at 00:05

Wrong. Presidents do not have that kind of power, they have said so themselves. They answer to private interests, military thugs, powerful rogue elements, and banksters - You do not control that type of power or move against it without paying the consequences. You are the crazy one for believing in a magical, fairyland where everything on your Tee-Vee, be it Fox News, CNN, or MSNBC are the Holy Gospel Truth - How naive are you. Do you pay attention to history? Do you realize False Flags have occurred since the dawn of Civilization and the absolute human lust for power? You are the one that believes in the 9/11 Commission Report which IS by definition a "conspiracy theory."

Next up, people will believe what is told to them about the ramping up for war against Syria under false pretenses. The Iraq War, BOTH TIMES, was based on KNOWN lies. All wars are planned, they do not happen by god damn accident. The Vietnam War started due to the false-flag Gulf of Tonkin incident, which is an ADMITTED, official truth for the History Books. How much more lies will people shovel into their brains without at all learning about the past?

SatanMonsanto
- 06/23/2013 at 06:07

Here's an iota: Military training exercises.

batvette
- 08/27/2013 at 07:01

yeah they have them every day. so what?

joe
- 08/11/2013 at 19:08

what about the hard drives that have been found in rubble, bank accounts, names of the dead,
its not over til its over, justice to those who have died for the greed of those small forms of life, will happen, time heals,, even justice

batvette
- 08/27/2013 at 07:03

NAMES OF THE DEAD! That's IT, by golly. The damning proof. WE GOT NAMES OF DEAD PEEPS.
Remember the Alamo!
Attica! Attica!

iint
- 06/24/2013 at 00:46

And yet your on here, watching conspiracy theories and bitching about it.

Acezero 44
- 04/03/2013 at 06:22

The whole human race gets to be an eye witness.

just watch,. and then ask,.

why did the laws of science fail that day,. fire? really? how? WHAT?

Its not like the JFK video where we cant see nothing. this was the best video account history may ever have.

Science is rare, most people cant understand any of it,. it cant just be digested an memorized to pass a test.. it needs to be absorbed and deeply thought about.

Its not surprising the American people accept the official report..

Most other avid students of science have a life they need to protect, and political suicide is a real thing,. its scary stuff.

One day the lies will destroy America,. just like any marriage or anything else built on lies.

In 1962, President John F. Kennedy was presented with a detailed plan titled Operation Northwoods which called for US military and intelligence agencies to commit acts of terrorism on the American people that, in turn, would be blamed on Cuba thus justifying an invasion of that Caribbean island nation and its subjugation to the United States.

And a corrupt, politically motivated, and inadequate "commission" was made following his assassination. Coincidence? i think not.

Matt PapaBear Cavrich
- 03/18/2013 at 06:12

Bush’s appearance at the Emma E. Booker Elementary School in Sarasota, Florida, on September 11, 2001 had been in the planning stages since August [Booker web site], but was only publicly announced on the morning of September 7. [White House, 9/7/01] Later that same day, 9/11 hijackers Mohamed Atta and Marwan Alshehhi traveled to Sarasota and enjoyed drinks and dinner at a Holiday Inn only two miles down the sandy beach from where Bush was scheduled to stay during his Sarasota visit. [Longboat Observer, 11/21/01, Washington Post, 1/27/02]

Anyone else seeing holes here, a plane crashed in PA nearly everyone can agree it was headed for the White House, they just needed to have Bush relocated so the President, which I believe planned this whole thing along side CIA, was safe. Regardless inside job or not it'll live in infamy just as the attacks on Pearl Harbor (another inside job?)

The building 7 questions are stupid. Building 7 had an entire side of it blown out by BEING HIT BY ANOTHER BUILDING. Not to mention the numerous fires that were burning weaking the steel support beams. Buildings 1, 2 and 7 weren't the only buildings to come down that day. The collapse of towers 1 and 2 damaged or destroyed almost a dozen buildings that day. The only reason building 7 and the other buildings weren't in the commission report is because they weren't directly hit by terrorists. The were brought down because of damage caused by the debris of the skyscrapers that fell down that day. It's really a pretty simple explanation. Not everything is some big elaborate conspiracy.

Name
- 06/10/2013 at 10:18

What about the vaults being cleared out?

greycb
- 11/03/2013 at 03:47

PRETTY simple great description of mind that can believe that

joseph
- 03/08/2013 at 16:28

in my humble opinion, if 9/11 happened as was told by our government and news media outlets, then ask yourself why 9/12 or 9/13 or 9/14 didn't happen??? if an enemy declares war, that enemy doesn't just strike once, and disappear.... Unless, we have solid evidence, we should not judge! saddam= no solid proof of a link to 9/11- no WMDS Either.. bin laden= "the most wanted man in the world" evades capture for over a decade, then just so happens to be captured killed and discarded at sea, before the families of the victims, and surviving victims even get a glimpse of the so called mastermind of this human tragedy???? who went on trial for the 9/11 attacks? nobody! the evidence was destroyed the witnesses disappeared and the world ordered the case dismissed. Next Case Please!

Did you know that most of those so-called hijackers that
supposed to die in a crash are reported to still live? Just watch any video
broadcasted by the main stream media on the day of catastrophe. Look at the
plane coming out of the building on the other side of one of the twin towers.
Zoom in, watch it frame by frame, there is a layer mask implemented. You can
find it in almost every live broadcast. The videos were tempered with/ edited.
The mask makes the plane's nose disappear in the pure air. You could argue
blaming that one some sort of glitch, but since it is shown on nearly every
single broadcast there is no doubt.

How come, the most advanced defence system in the world did
not do the job it was design to do? Why were procedures relating to emergency
situations like this one, and scrambling the planes to intercept changed only
days before the event, and reversed back a few days after?

Why when interceptors were finally scrambled, they flew the
most distant base in the area, and at first they were directed in the opposite
area? It is all verifiable data.

Why the defence secretary D. Rumsfeld was in the field
instead of trying to protect his country and do the job he is paid for?

Why Bush did nothing when he was told about the events
taking place? (Sir, America is under attack, we are trying to establish who is
behind it.) Should not he just stand up and say, sorry kids I have some presidential
matters to attend to?

WTC 7 (the building in which the data involving the
financial affairs were kept, Enron and so on)

Follow the money, insurance claims, options, move of
securities. Who has made substantial profit?

All Iraq personnel was evacuated and the lease of part of
WTC was also cancelled only days before
9/11.

All broadcasts were synchronized and there is a
distinguishable 'bleep' in them and some frames are blacked out.

Why Bin Landen's family was allowed to leave the country
when everyone was stranded? If Osama was accused would not be prudent to keep
those people under investigation.

Pilots were supposed to be amateurs and yet they did manoeuvre
planes like pros, many pros says the way they flew planes was physically
impossible, mostly because of planes limitations. It takes hundreds of hours
just to fly that birds not to mention performing acrobatic turns.

I can go on..

It bugs me that there are people out there that still
believe in the official version of 'the conspiracy theory' - that's how i call
it. I want to prompt you to read some more. Dont let anyone to tell you what
you should think of it. Read a lot, ask questions and make your own opinion.
Remember that main stream media is controlled by someone/organisation, so it is
wise to assume you will be told only a fraction of truth, the rest can be learn
through deduction and research. If members of the panel assembled to
investigate the evens of 9/11 express concerns about the legitimacy of the
official version how could that not ring you a bell?

I also cannot comprehend how a bunch of guys in caves with a
pc had logistic capabilities to undertake this kind of operation and so effectively
synchronise it in time. That is simply impossible. There are far too many
coincidences and anomalies that speak against the official version of events. I
think that a vast majority is convincing enough that the truth that we were
told is not correct.

Leaders of any nation who are appointed by people, to serve
people. They make an oath of the loyalty to the people, it is people of
America, who make America. America without its people is just a piece of land.

When leaders take on American people, regardless of their
intentions and premises, they commit treason and should be charged as that.

The biggest problem with the conspiracy theorists is that they present no evidence, and often not even a credible guess, as to who else might have been involved. It is all empty speculation. Anyone can poke holes in any report of what happened in a disaster. Conspiracy theorists have done this in spades, expecting detailed explanations of everything that happened from the plane approaching the buildings to the collapse. That all of the details may not be available to anyone because of the enormity of the situation apparently just fuels the theorists more. They love a mystery and will read into a lack of information every crazy thing they can think of and jump on it as if it meant something sinister. Yet they never say who, what, when or why the conspiracy happened.

Louise, it's obvious you have not looked into this. There is PLENTY of evidence that the towers didn't come down as a result of the planes crashing.

batvette
- 05/30/2013 at 12:17

"Louise, it's obvious you have not looked into this."

The mantra of the conspiracy theorist. Anyone who disagrees with your groundless beliefs must be ignorant or uninformed. (or part of it)
I guess that's why nobody in the media will give you the time of day any more....
Why would she not "look into this"? She doesn't care about all the victims, doesn't care how this has affected all our lives?
I think she, like I, has. Quite deeply. And the more I see the more I believe truthers are off in their own little world.

tim leblanc
- 10/08/2013 at 13:48

this needs to be dragged out over four hrs with more detail that things were done a way to prove it was planned. Michael more it don't rush it . I didn't know 3/4 of the people that were talked about slow down and HD this shit I couldn't read 1 document you showed. good base for your story

mn_skatepunk
- 06/02/2013 at 20:12

That's not true at all. There's numerous investigations as to what happened. All the credible investigations found that the reason the towers fell was a combination of the impact of the two planes and the intense fires that didn't melt the support beams...but the fires did weaken the beams enough for a collapse to happen.

Paul
- 08/11/2013 at 03:36

Cognitive Dissonance.
It's a sad fact that the vast majority of us will conform to the theory which upsets our world view least. "God" forbid our government and "protector" would do anything to jeopardize the lives of their own citizens. But by all means drop a nuclear bomb on Hiroshima and kill over 150,000 Japanese, or create a "War on Terror"/Oil investment which has killed hundreds of thousands more..

You're simply wrong that alternative evidence has not been presented. It has. I don't need to explain - you'll find it if you look. The fact of the matter is you're simply not interested in any alternative evidence and I don't blame you for it. To even consider that these attacks could have been "homegrown" is an earth shattering possibility with severe global implications let alone personal ones. My advice; stay in your cocoon where it's safe.

Rocky Racoon
- 03/03/2013 at 08:55

If these guys had all died that day I would say they got what was coming to them but for them all to so conveniently been somewhere else-I don't think all the money in the world could erase the guilt I would feel pullling a prank like this and the wars that followed. The world may well end before somebody spills the beans but if we survive as a species and are not extinct due to global warming or ww3 somebody has to crack. OR watch how many get bumped off as time goes by....

Though nearly all of this film was speculative, it does open some interesting doors as it pertains to possible motives.

Trying to assert either that the planes were drones, or that all of the evidence put forth has been "debunked" by believers of the official theory, are both premature.

As it stands, no one as of yet has refuted the peer reviewed journal in copanhegan that summerized 4(not 1) different samples that appear to have had explosive materials.

Furthermore, NIST was forced to redact their earlier claims about how building 7 fell and admitted freefall for about 17 stories. This came about when individuals challanged their scientific method(or lack there of) for coming to such a conclusion. This draws speculation into either the partisan or competent nature of the organization, and thus must cause all future and prior information they have provided as "tainted".

This leaves us with the necessary function of a new, independent investigation, with subpoena powers, into the events of 9/11, as serious questions have not been answered, and the official theories backers have been discredited; leaving one theory relatively no better than the other.

And for all those people that "should have known", I leave you this quote, though i dont remember who it was from:

"It is easy for someone not to understand something, when their job depends on them not understanding it".

"if jet fuel truly "weakened" the structures, one of them would have tipped over."

If you think 12-20 stories of a structure like the WTC would remain intact once its mass was subjected to gravitational load on a diagonal plane, you don't have a lot of knowledge about basic engineering. The whole thing is like a giant empty box and is designed to withstand its own load vertically with some wind load. It is not designed to remain intact if one were to attempt to "tip it over".

"there are waaaaaaaaaaay too many clips of people that day saying "we/I heard a bomb" to ignore."

The typical comment is "it sounded like a bomb went off". Usually stated by someone who has never heard a bomb go off. It is not at all unusual to hear explosion like sounds at a building fire of that magnitude, especially with fires up and down various levels having been started by jet fuel pouring in.

With a notable exception*, in no case does anyone describe the many multiple, near simultaneous, explosions right at the time of collapse, consistent with controlled demolitions.

*There is one firefighter who is on tape saying "it was like a controlled demolition, boom boom boom boom!" but funny enough, he is on the record saying he doesn't believe he witnessed a controlled demolition and it was terrorists and planes.

There are many videos that exist of both towers collapsing and in none of them do we hear explosions resembling controlled demolitions.

"no jumbo jet hit the Pentagon. where's my proof? where is yours that one did?"

Hundreds of eyewitnesses, for one. Video news footage showing a lot of debris consistent with a large passenger plane with American Airlines markings. The flight data recorder. However anyone with a bit of common sense should end that line of argument here:

Because American Airlines, a publicly traded company not owned by Bush or the US Government, said it did. And they and their insurers lost/paid out billions for the events that day.

I hope further explanation is not necessary.

Fletch Fletcher
- 05/17/2013 at 21:44

Sorry. You're completely wrong on the Pentagon debris consistent with a large passenger plane. No engines found. No wing damage to the building. No plane parts in the right places... just still images released to the media later. Video evidence of a hole too small for an airliner to fit through. It smells.

batvette
- 05/30/2013 at 12:07

"consistent with a large passenger plane."

How many examples of a large passenger plane hitting a blast reinforced building at cruising speed do you have to compare this too? How about NONE?

"No engines found" That's a lie right there. Pictures of the scene show what is identified by experts as the center hub of one of the compressor stages.

" just still images released to the media later."

You mean taken by the media and released by the media.

"It smells."

Your acceptance of reality is optional.

JD101
- 03/02/2013 at 08:43

I for one think that 19 hijackers DID crash some planes into the towers. I don't think there were any bombs in the building at all. Too many moving parts. I DO think that everything is not as they would have you believe. I DO think that some insider groups planned and moulded these terrorists. For example, Osama used to work for the CIA. He could very well have been on the payroll of the CIA or other nefarious groups in order to brainwash these people into doing the job for them. Whether it was some US Government inside conspiracy or not is kind of irrelevant. Just look at what happened after the bombings. The USA took a terrible disaster and used it to run amok in the middle east for the benefit of big oil Co's and Israel.

No matter what anyone believes, I don't understand the problem with the questions. I don't take Popular Mechanics as an official government document. Also, the families involved with 911 asked a lot of good questions which the government failed to address in its report.

Since when is full disclosure and complete investigation a bad thing? Some are willing to accept the initial report. I think it is lacking. Ken Starr, looking for unethical behavior by the Clinton's in the Whitewater investigation, took 5 years and about $40 - $70 million of your our tax dollars (depends on who you ask and how you ask) so that Clinton could lose his law license for 5 years and the world would know the color of Monica's dress. You know what color it was, don't you?

But an investigation that should have been as thorough as anything ever undertaken by this government, apparently involving 4 planes, the World Trade Center facilities, the Pentagon for pete's sake, and now 10 years of war with Iraq and Afghanistan, warrant-less wiretapping, laws to allow our president to assassinate anyone he decides is proper, on and on. It took Bush almost a full year to even request the 911 Commission! WTF?

I think a proper examination and an answer to any question anyone wants to ask is proper and fair. There is a lot at stake, now as then.

do you remember (from various documentaries) how German cities looked after wwII carpet bombing, all buildings were destroyed, yet there was always one or two walls remaining standing all the way up... you should google some pictures from large earthquakes, or floods or fire and see how buildings look like after collapsing, they are leaned, with whole sections of the floors still in shape, there is virtually no case when a building is reduced to dust... i am in construction (and demolishing) business for 20 years, and there is NO FORCE that can completely destroy a building except CONTROLLED DEMOLITION...
My point is that there is NO WAY that wtc 7 could have been destroyed in such manner even if jet crashed in it, let alone from some trivial BBQ fire.
Therefore we can certainly conclude beyond any doubt that wtc 7 was professionally destroyed in CONTROLLED DEMOLITION, i repeat -wtc 7 was DESTROYED IN CONTROLLED DEMOLITION ON THE VERY SAME DAY of alleged attack! How can that be? It is not a job that someone can organize in those moments of complete chaos and disorder in couple of hours. It needs to be meticulously planned, and it takes a lot of workers and logistics, and a lot of time to prepare such a large building for controlled demolition. THOSE ARE THE FACTS -THE CONCLUSION I LEAVE TO YOU! Wake up fellow Americans, there are other things beside hamburgers and baseball and the shitty information about 911 that is spoon-fed to you...
greetings from europe

this is evidence that hasn't been explained that I would LOVE to be explained. Thanks lex. VALID POINT

dopefire14
- 02/28/2013 at 10:59

Our Government is Nothing more than Criminal Masterminds. This has been planned For Decades maybe Centuries. Everyone That Was in it Knew About it and the Important People that Didn't Were Redirected Just Like the Citizens of this Country, I Would Love to Read the 9/11 Commission Report but I Know I Will have more Questions than Answers. Again this Video was very Detailed but with No Definite Accuracy on the Truth of Twin Towers & The Pentagon, Which We Will Never Get Anyways but More Like an Obvious Logical Reasoning with Facts of 9/11 Which is Again Helpful. I Would Recommend this Video to Anyone with an Open Mind.

c'mpn ppl, building 7 (wtc 7) was professionally demolished- i repeat -professionally demolished -at the very same day of alleged attacks, how that can be????????????? what al-qaeda ppl somehow survived the plane crash and entered building 7 and did a job that normally takes days and a lot of workers to do???? WAKE UP, PLEASE!!!

I've read all the comments and I have to say that any good conspiracy
leaves enough information or clues that can be manipulated and
interpreted in so many ways, depending on who's handling the evidence.
We've seen this with the Kennedy and MLK assassinations. We've seen
documented proof of false flag operations in the past that have led us into war. We've caught many
political, business, and some military leaders out right lying or
claiming culpable deniablitly when accountability is needed time and
time again.There is as much information as dis-information out there and
much of it can be taken with a grain of salt. No matter how convincing
either sides' evidence can be. Some of the evidence claimed by the
'status quo' is compelling enough to debunk several of the theoretical
nuances of the conspiracy theorists, agreed. So, all I have to go on are
some far fetched theories of how a building with a couple of fires came
down so eloquently when less sophisticated buildings around the country
have burned for literally hours and hours and have still remained
standing. Oh, and the fact that historically, the U.S, and other
countries have allowed the corporate/banking fascist elite to dictate
policies for their own benefit, generation after generation.This country
seems to favor the few, and what have we learned about the "few"? Is it
not beyond the realm of possibility that in some way these events,
whether they were planned from the beginning or a result of total
incompetence, were exploited by a few individuals for whatever reasons?
Many of the "few" have benefited from this tragedy and our civil rights are being
stripped daily because of this so-called War on Terror. Have you had a
chance to read the Patriot Act, Jay? And all the other legislation
passed for our "own good" as a result of all this and more? Problem,
Reaction, Solution. Manipulation 101. In my opinion there can be only
three possibilities; 1. Due to the total lack of professionalism and
severe incompetence of the best armed; most technologically advanced
country on the planet, with a military budget exceeding the GNP of most
small countries, a handful of radicals boarded three of our planes, with
box cutters, and got lucky. Well, two out of three ain't bad, huh? 2.
It was an inside job which took a few years to plan, by certain
"insiders" from the CIA, Big Business and our Federal Government. You
would need those kinds of cross departmental connections to make this
happen, and we know that in the past, the CIA has worked, or colluded
with organized crime and corrupt government officials worldwide. Or, 3. "They" saw
it coming and enabled or allowed it to happen, for whatever reasons, as
an opportunity to further "their" agenda. Any one of these possibilities
is totally unacceptable. But what other possibilities are there? I personally believe this was part of an
overall agenda that seems to be progressing quite well, considering all
that we're losing as American citizens. A crime needs means, motive and
opportunity and with the access "they" have, it was all there. Oh, and a
pattern of historically diabolical plots in foreign policy that has
destroyed every democratic leaning country from the Middle East to South
America in the past 60 years. You see, when you F%@K over as many
countries as we have, you have to be looking over your shoulder all the
time. Hmmm, maybe they did get lucky.

I've read all the comments and I have to say that any good conspiracy leaves enough information or clues that can be manipulated and interpreted in so many ways, depending on who's handling the evidence. We've seen this with the Bobbie Kennedy assassination. We've seen documented proof of false flag operations in the past. We've caught many political, business, and some military leaders out right lying or claiming culpable deniablitly when accountability is needed time and time again.There is as much information as dis-information out there and much of it can be taken with a grain of salt. No matter how convincing either sides' evidence can be. Some of the evidence claimed by the 'status quo' is compelling enough to debunk several of the theoretic nuances of the conspiracy theorists, agreed. So, all I have to go on are some far fetched theories of how a building with a couple of fires came down so eloquently when less sophisticated buildings around the country have burned for literally hours and hours and have still remained standing. Oh, and the fact that historically, the U.S, and other countries have allowed the corporate/banking fascist elite to dictate policies for their own benefit, generation after generation.This country seems to favor the few, and what have we learned about the "few"? it is not beyond the realm of possibility that in some way these events, whether they were planned from the beginning or a result of total incompetence, were exploited by so many for so many alleged reasons. Many have benefited from this tragedy and our civil rights are being stripped daily because of this so-called War on Terror. Have you had a chance to read the Patriot Act, Jay? And all the other legislation passed for our "own good" as a result of all this and more? Problem, Reaction, Solution. Manipulation 101. In my opinion there can be only three possibilities; 1. Due to the total lack of professionalism and severe incompetence of the best armed; most technologically advanced country on the planet, with a military budget exceeding the GNP of most small countries, a handful of radicals boarded three of our planes, with box cutters, and got lucky. Well, two out of three ain't bad, huh? 2. It was an inside job which took a few years to plan, by certain "insiders" from the CIA, Big Business and our Federal Government. You would need those kinds of cross departmental connections to make this happen, and we know that in the past, the CIA has worked, or colluded with organized crime and corrupt officials worldwide. Or, 3. "They" saw it coming and enabled or allowed it to happen, for whatever reasons, as an opportunity to further "their" agenda. Any one of these possibilities is totally unacceptable. I personally believe this was part of an overall agenda that seems to be progressing quite well, considering all that we're losing as American citizens. A crime needs means, motive and opportunity and with the access "they" have, it was all there. Oh, and a pattern of historically diabolical plots in foreign policy that has destroyed every democratic leaning country from the Middle East to South America in the past 60 years. You see, when you F%@K over as many countries as we have, you have to be looking over your shoulder all the time. Hmmm, maybe they did get lucky.
Thank you for your consideration.

9/11 was a coup d' etat, as the subsequent insanity of the Bush/Cheney junta has proven. The main obstacle has been the american peoples refusal to accept the obvious, despite dozens of historical precedents...But in The United States of Amnesia nobody is taught history are they? What is the problem with yanks? Do you enjoy being stupid, blind and grossly uninformed/overweight?

"Enjoy" might be the wrong word. And calling us overweight is just insensitive to those of us suffering from ice cream addiction.

Glen Hale
- 02/26/2013 at 05:53

The owner of WTC Larry is on record saying he spoke to the fire chief about "pulling " Building 7 if can't be to hard to find the the fire chief he spoke to and ask some pertinent questions, if such a chief ever existed?

The moon landing was faked! The Kennedy(s), 9/11, and this & that a;ll were conspired! And on & on...w/the BS.
It is like those people who see a flying saucer/ufo's, or ghosts, even big foot(s). It is human nature to disbelieve. If you were not there nor didn't see it for yourself. Why call people liers? Or fakers? Or even nuts? If they are not gaining any money out of it. What is their point or intentions?They really believe they saw what they did or know what they know. People cry "conspiracy" if one little thing if off centered. That is their choice to say what they will. But if you were not there, and you did not see, feel or expierence whatever things it is. Then please, ...think over the possibilities. I have seen and read people actually believe the Newtown Conn. shooting was staged. The children bodies were dummies. The reason. To have better gun laws. What a sad thing to say. The thought of that is so laughable for a sad sick day.
9/11 was no set up or conspiracy. No explosives were used. Yes, ..very lax'd action(s) by the Gov that day. But that is it. And on July 20, 1969 they landed on the moon. A powerful telescope can see the things left there. They even use lasers reflectors to measure the distance the moon from the earth. PEACE OUT!

You are so right! Conspiracies abound and they are just meaningless drivel! I got a good one for you that I am sure you will like, so I hope you are ready for a good, long chuckle: On 9/11/01 nineteen wacky Arabs armed with nothing but box cutters hijacked four commercial airliners in broad daylight. One was slammed into the ground, one hit the pentagon and the other two hit the world trade center, causing these two 110-story buildings to fall into tidy piles of dust at free-fall speed. Oh and the really silly part is that at the very same moment all of this was going on, NORAD was playing war games pertaining to commercial airliners slamming into the world trade center! Can you believe this crazy yarn! This is why no fighters could figure out what those wild and crazy Arabs were doing in those airliners. I got a big kick out of the film footage which clearly shows two gray military jet drones hitting the two WTC towers, and the White House telling everybody they are two white jumbo jets with commercial airliner markings on them, and an entire country fell for it. I know, sounds absolutely fantastical! All of this was master-minded in an Afghani cave by Osama Bin Laden, whose family is best of friends with the Bush family, but there is no connection there of course. And as it turned out these zany Arabs just happened to forget their luggage and leave behind the most damning of evidence including flight manuals and copies of the Koran. But you know those wacky Arab terrorists! They tend to drink too much at stripper bars the night before they slam planes into structures like the World Trade Center and the Pentagon --- those crazy guys! I just think these Arabs must have all been stand up comedians before they picked up their box cutters. And to top all of this off, billions were made hedging commercial airline stocks for United and American Airlines, the two companies most heavily impacted by the 9/11 event, just prior to 9/11! Then nobody at the White House thought this hedging was worth following up on. I know, it is hysterically hard to believe! You gotta love a good conspiracy story!

Me
- 02/27/2013 at 04:28

Nice try, but it don't fly. Freaky how conspiracies really are so abound when facts are questioned. Today was the anniversary of the 1st WTC in 1993. Was that a conspiracy? Gee, ..I wonder why you haven't mentioned a word about that. I wonder why the 1993 WTC bombing was not a conspiracy? 9/11 was too big to be faked. Sorry for the bad news. Again, no conspiracy on 9/11. Just bad agency follow thru, & very poor management. What part of reality do you not get? I never said conspiracies are not meaningful, U did!.And I agree, you just have to question things, but to make up hyped-up inflated happenings is foolish.
OBL was not the only family member who has $. The whole family has it. He inherited the $. Before the dumbass was even born, the elders had the construction business & have done business all over. I know a Major in the Army who is friends w/one the BL family member through construction contracts overseas where he was stationed. Does it mean that Major is or had conspired? Nope. Until you can PROVE w/FACTS w/out hyped-up made up crystal ball knowledge. U loose. U never told me your age. I wonder why? And again, ...today 1993 WTC bombing! What, ...no conspiracy there?Why!!?? ...U B KOOL ;-)... .

God Bless.
Me.

dmxi
- 02/27/2013 at 16:24

the '93 bombing....good that you brought that one up,in case you don't know...the guy taped his handlers(fbi) when they ordered him to build an active device which was used on that date.look it up!

pwndecaf
- 03/01/2013 at 22:30

The FBI has been the leading terrorist organizer in the US. Most of the cases prosecuted involved guys being talked into a bombing something by FBI plants and then the FBI tells them how to do it and supplies them with the goods - they don't actually work, but how is this keeping us safe from terrorism?

There are plenty of articles available over several years related to this continuing joke - the Rolling Stone, HuffPo, CBS, etc. This is the "proof" that the FBI is keeping us safe. Google Terrorism FBI Entrapment for links.

From one article on the NYT: Of the 22 most frightening plans for attacks since 9/11 on American soil, 14 were developed in sting operations.

Alrighty then! Thanks for your efforts!

batvette
- 04/12/2013 at 07:05

We know about the FBI's tactics.
This is not evidence to support the conspiracy theory.
And the bomb in 1993 was built and used by a terrorist. Not the FBI.

Jonny
- 03/04/2013 at 21:26

I had forgot about the unpredecented get/put stock market activity which seemed to suggest parties had inside information. I consider this evidence almost as compelling as the physics arguments raised that (I think) aren't answered by the official story about what happened that day. Good point

And yet how many incidents do we have as precedent that Arabs can and do hijack airliners? Quite a few!
And can you explain to me what difference would it be if a hijacking of an airplane took place at night or in "broad daylight"? The plane is in the air and has lights inside. What difference does it make? Aren't you just saying whatever silly thing that pops into your head?
As for that "tidy pile of dust" google 9/11 satellite image.... you can just go now.

D Saleh
- 06/06/2013 at 04:09

The only person s*upid enough to write this is, well its BUSH himself!!

Msfeebie
- 02/25/2013 at 21:34

I am totally convinced that this was a murderous cover up and it is demonic in its very essence and roots of treachery and robbery..

Demons? I believe the tooth fairy and easter bunny also were in collusion. Possibly leprechauns as well.
(firefighters on the scene reported seeing a dwarf fleeing the towers right before the collapse)

Felisha A. Cooper
- 04/13/2013 at 06:47

you are so unlearned and naive, until if you saw the sky falling you would say thats a false sky and it is animated to look like it is falling!!!!!

Remember the look on Bush,s face when he was first told that a plane had crashed into one of the towers,Then he was told about the second.If that wasen,t spontaneous then he should receive an academy award.

When it comes to 9/11 I always felt the majority of people were so shocked and awed (pun intended) by that day that all common sense went out the window for those folk that did not lean towards dissension like those who question 9/11.
Common sense things like...

- Smaller buildings not hit by giant planes just randomly implode like an old stadium demolition (Building 7).

- Plane crashes by giant commercial jets completely "evaporating" and not leaving behind things like, oh I don't know... fuselage,engines,wings,tails,bodies of passengers after crashing into a structure like The Pentagon or a PA wooded area that was not that dense.Seriously,look up photos of commercial jetliner plane crashes,there is shit everywhere! Not on 9/11 though.

- The world's most powerful military had no way of scrambling all those super cool jets I see in those neat Air Force,Navy propaganda adverts to take out the jetliners who I'm sure were not responding to any Boston/New York air traffic controllers and normally would have been shot down ASAP!

I guess those few simple things always put me in the camp that the whole 9/11 thing wasn't some kidney failed mastermind hiding out in the Afghan mountains ordering a few dudes with box cutters to wreak havoc.It's actually alot more terrifying then that convienient truth.

Building seven fell down. I don't see how a building of this size is going to fall and fall any differently than it did. As I stated before, google "high rise demolition videos". You will hear a series of coordinated explosions and then the building will begin to fall. This did not happen with building seven. Watch as many videos as you want concerning the collapse of building seven and you will never hear the series of explosions that you hear from a planned demolition.

Normally, pilots try to avoid the crash or attempt a soft landing to limit the damage and hoping to save themselves. They do not, as they did on 9/11, fly full speed into the ground or into a building. The National Transportation Safety Board reported that the flight impacted at 563 mph in Shanksville. Parts of planes and bodies were recovered. "Truthers" just ignore this fact. All victims were identified using DNA, even though their bodies were nearly obliterated. County coroner Wally Miller found and identified nearly 1500 body parts in the field in Pennsylvania. There are also pictures of plane parts found at the Pentagon as well over one hundred eye witnesses to the crash. Seriously, look it up.

The planes that struck the Twin Towers would not have been shot down. It is not the policy of air defence to shoot down hijacked airplanes. On October the 22, 2009, Northwest Airlines flight flew one hundred and fifty miles past the airport. They had not been in contact with the airport for over an hour. It was being tracked on radar and their position was known. It was not shot down. Air defence is set up to defend against missile and invasion by air, not to defend against domestic passenger planes. Secondly, imagine the indignation and anger of the American people had they shot down those planes before they hit their targets. Since it would not have been known that they were suicide missions, why would you shoot them down?

Pilots and flight attendants were trained to adopt the "Common Strategy" tactic, which was approved by the FAA. It taught crew members to comply with the hijackers' demands, get the plane to land safely and then let the security forces handle the situation. Crew members advised passengers to sit quietly in order to increase their chances of survival. In other words, it would be relatively easy for hijackers using box cutters and the threat of bombs to hijack a plane. All it took on 9/11 is for careful planning to coordinate the hijackings from a central planner (Bin Laden) and it should be relatively easy to carry out. The hard part would be to find those willing to do such a thing. Unfortunately, religious zealots, looking to secure a place in heaven, are the perfect candidates for such a mission.

I doubt that this will sway your opinion. It is more likely that you, like so many others, will ignore what I have posted and refuse to investigate the details of what I have presented, but here it is, anyway.

ericthefool
- 02/28/2013 at 07:26

Why won't the Pentagon just release the video of the "plane" hitting the Pentagon then.....why is it being withheld?

WiseGapist
- 03/01/2013 at 17:51

Relatively easy to carry out? I wouldn't think so.

Jack1952
- 03/05/2013 at 04:53

A limited group of fanatics enter the United States. A small number of them take flight lessons. They buy airline tickets for flights at three different airports leaving at about the same time. They have a preset time at which they grab airline personnel, threaten them with boxcutters maybe even killing them, loudly proclaim they have bombs, storm the cockpit and then attempt to fly them into buildings.

or

Government conspirators recruit demolition teams to enter three huge buildings, spend an indeterminate length of time planting explosives and then covering their work so no one notices the clandestine project going on under their noses. They convince two major airlines to say their planes were hijacked, get airline and airport employees to go along with this plan, recruit passengers or kill them of something. Shoot a missile into the Pentagon and recruit over one hundred witnesses to the event. Get people to lie about talking to passengers over the phone, find people to lie about seeing the plane crash into a field in Pennsylvania, radar people lie, NORAD personnel lie, clean up crews remain silent about what they find. News media cover up the truth. Get the FBI investigators and those who file the NIST report and the 9/11 commission report to fabricate a story.

Of the two which is the easiest plan to carry out.

WiseGapist
- 03/05/2013 at 08:10

'a small number of them take flight lessons' - you know what a gross over-simplification that is? To learn to competently pilot a commercial airliner and achieve those targets?
Also, for all hijackers to stroll onto their flights with concealed weapons, none being caught n the process, with the US level of airport security?

Where was the footage of the supposed hijackers in the airports? The footage of the plane hitting the Pentagon?

I don't even subscribe to the explosives theory, I have strong suspicions about wtf happened with WTC7 though, your explanation?

I think highly trained, possibly Mossad operatives got slipped through airport security and hijacked the planes with US approval. It's not Bin Laden's desert muslims pulling it all off.

Jack1952
- 03/05/2013 at 13:57

Those hijackers have sat at the controls of planes before 9/11. They didn't have to be experts. They only had to know how to follow a flightpath and a reasonable knowledge of the geography of the surrounding target area. Flight simulators have been on the market for years prior to 9/11.

Airport security was lax before 9/11. There is footage of the hijackers at the airports. Just as there is only one video of the first tower being struck and that not a showing of a direct hit, a Pentagon video would just as likely be as inconclusive. The only reason there are so many films of the second tower being hit is because of all the cameras focused on the tower already on fire. If I had a camera, I would most likely have taken film also. There was no reason to point a camera at the Pentagon. Nothing was happening there until the plane struck. If the second plane had hit the Pentagon there would have been videos of that as well.

Don't characterize these Muslims as a bunch of Bedouins who have never used a toaster. They were well travelled individuals with western educations. Your Mossad theory is something that you made up and has absolutely no evidence to back it up.

WiseGapist
- 03/05/2013 at 19:26

Simplify it as much as you like to make it plausible.

Airport security was by no means lax prior to 9/11, you think that was the first instance of people getting onto planes with things they shouldn't? Air security has been a concern for decades.

I was referring to World Trade Center 7 and why that collapsed.

I was under the impression the Pentagon had a number of external security cameras, the footage of which was not disclosed.

The Muslims may well be trained, but all of them slipping onto planes with weapons undetected is suspicious. I'm not going to go into a lengthly explanation of the Mossad theory because frankly I cba with continuing such a worn out argument and it is a lengthy explanation. The whole 9/11 debate is so dried up of fruitful battleground I'd sooner debate something else. Only reason I got dragged back in is because I'm a sucker for an argument even a boring one, for a time.^^

Enjoy the mass media definition of the truth and I'll go side with the skeptics.

batvette
- 04/12/2013 at 07:15

They have some cameras, not as many as you think, and their time intervals do not facilitate view of a 400mph object.
The assumption you may have that they have cameras everywhere pointed out into the sky is not rational.
Besides, who in their right mind would break into the Pentagon, by crossing the lawn and what, smashing a window?
There is no reason for the cameras you assume to exist, to exist.

Ryan Han
- 03/05/2013 at 10:25

So, you say that it is impossible to carry out this cover up because so many people had to be in on it.

Wrong, only a few have to be in on it, all the others are on " Need to know basis", otherwise known as "Compartmentalized knowledge".

This has been done many times before by the US gov't. The CIA has been running operations unknown to public for decades. And oh yeah, remember the Manhattan Project? 130,000 people working on it and the public was kept in dark as to what they were making.

Jack1952
- 03/05/2013 at 13:34

A crew does not place explosives in buildings and then cover up their work and not realize the implications of what they are doing. Airline and airport personnel are going to know exactly what they are lying about and that they are complicit in the murder of fellow Americans. Witnesses who lie about seeing a plane fly into the Pentagon or a plane crashing in Pennsylvania are going to know what their roles are in the cover up. Any type of action concerning passengers cannot be done without those involved knowing exactly what it is they are doing. Your "need to know" scenario breaks down when those alleged planes carry out their missions. Every one involved will realize their role in the crime. If you, unwittingly, took part in this mission, would you keep silent when you realized what it was that you were asked to do and that you were tricked into your part in this mission. Yet, not one person has come out and said that they now know they inadvertently did something that helped the government commit this crime. I know. You will tell me that they would be killed if they told. No evidence. So now all you have are unsubstantiated suspicions based on your dislike of the government. In other words, every "truther" scenario is nothing but conjecture and fabrication.

batvette
- 04/12/2013 at 07:11

So you just said it was a few yet also state that 130,000 worked on the Manhattan Project.
Didn't those 130,000 freely talk about at least the unclassified part, that they did work on it?

Lastviewer
- 02/24/2013 at 04:01

I listen to all this and the same peoples come up, over & over, in so many instances. Time after times. Even one generation after the other.
Makes me think about the rest of the US population...
No good men to fill those post in the US Elite?

Bottom line, no one will sort that out soon. Anyhow, it woldn't be permited.
Just stange I'd say: - The US nation once decided that abuse from Mornarchy went far enough, had a revolution and gained sovereignty through a democratically elected Gov. Fine, but who's running that boat in now days exacly? Up to a point where so many questions of 911's widows were ignored?

Your right. The widowers have a right to have their questions answered. I THINK the investigation was not substantial enough. I think lots of people would agree with that

$38185636
- 02/24/2013 at 00:46

To all of the induhviduals who love to excrete Orwellian Doublespeak phrases such as "conspiracy theorist" or "9/11 truther," those of us with some intelligence and foresight know what you are doing. You are trying to pin a negative label on anyone who is smart enough to challenge the official 9/11 story and the subsequent BS you are spewing..

It is no different than the doublespeak of the individuals who see conspiracies everywhere. Sheeple, brainwashed, wake up people, and the suggestion that unless one does not see things as you do, they lack in intelligence and foresight...and you pin the positive label on yourself of being smart because you think it takes wisdom to challenge the official story. Wisdom is not in the challenge. It manifests itself when a person knows that one has to look at all sides of an issue and reaching a fair and balanced conclusion at the end. There just isn't enough evidence to prove any collusion on the part of government officials. They are innocent until proven guilty.

dmxi
- 02/25/2013 at 18:52

citations like hoovers 'theres a conpiracy so massive...etc'(something in that direction) & kennedys known quote about hidden covert governance should make one ponder (&theres a lot more of insider indications),or not?

Jack1952
- 02/26/2013 at 00:01

Hoover's declaration was in reference to a communist conspiracy to take over America. That sentence has been taken out of context many times. If one reads the entire transcript it is enormously clear that he is referring to communism and is in line with the anti communism paranoia of the fifties. Kennedy speech was about the relationship between the press and the presidency. Kennedy knew that there would be covert operations carried out by the government but he encouraged the press in this speech to report more on international news and tried to assure them that he would be as open as possible. (paraphrased) Neither of these quotes are evidence of wrong doing on 9/11. Guilt is established by direct evidence.

I have to concede that there are bad people in the world. Rockefellar's statement does not prove complicity by any government individuals or agencies. It has nothing to do with what happened that day. Only the facts can do that. Politics is filled with shady characters. That statement is not an indictment of guilt when used in a specific incident. It is totally irrelevant.

dmxi
- 02/27/2013 at 21:29

i was only trying to give you a lead...you have to dig!
edit:as i see you do & are capable of 'digging'....see you on the otherside.........................................maybe?

Jonny
- 03/04/2013 at 21:12

hi. this intrigued me. can you please help those seeking enlightenment by reducing unnecessary digging? (ie share a link!)

thanks in advance

dmxi
- 03/06/2013 at 00:29

that would acquire me backtracking all the material that i've researched for myself to come to my own conclusions.you have to start somewhere & starting with rothschlids,rockefellers,morgans & warburgs dynasty history is a good start.watch 'all wars are bankers wars'
on this site & go from there.....enjoy the search for truth

but always look in all directions or you will be hit by deception.

ericthefool
- 02/28/2013 at 07:42

How about Eisenhowers speech about the Military Industrial Complex....I guess that was just taken out of context too... right....

Jack1952
- 02/28/2013 at 08:10

Eisenhower rightfully warned us against the Military Industrial Complex. What does this have to do with 9/11? Because one is capable of something does not automatically imply guilt. You prove nothing by this reference.

Jonny
- 03/04/2013 at 21:09

valid point. very valid point. less name calling nonsense, more structured debate encouraged. I like people that make salient remarks

batvette
- 04/12/2013 at 07:20

Laughing.
So you're "smarter" than those who point out the absurdity of the theory.
"Guest" surely has a Phd. in a relevant field and has pursued his belief by publishing in peer review journals, right?

Americans should believe the results of the 911 commission report. And they should believe in the single bullet theory. And they should believe in the Gulf of Tonkin. And they should believe that the Federal Reserve is a trying to solve unemployment.

A nation of sheep being controlled by a group psychopaths. Far too late for any push back. Your next step is deservedly soylent green.

Another reference to sheep. Why is it the same people all believe the same conspiracy theories? Just another specie of "sheep", maybe?

dewflirt
- 02/25/2013 at 08:24

That made me chuckle, Just what my mum said when I came home with a mohican, somewhat deflating but true nonetheless :)

dmxi
- 02/25/2013 at 18:47

nice to see you also was flaunting a mohawk .i knew there was a connection somewhere between us.best wishes....................................................................d.

Jack1952
- 02/26/2013 at 00:18

Your mother was obviously a wise woman. A Mohican? Kool!! lol.

ericthefool
- 02/28/2013 at 07:43

Why do you deflect every statement that talks about sheep?

Why do you back the Govt every chance you get?

Jack1952
- 02/28/2013 at 08:18

It's not a matter of backing the government. When you accuse anyone of a crime, you have to have irrefutable evidence so there is not a shadow of doubt. Not liking them isn't enough. It is the only fair way to judge the merits of any case.

Calling people sheep is insulting and implies that the one using the term is the only one capable of free thought. If you have a point to make, use evidence and logic. Don't call those you disagree with you sheep and dismiss them. It means that you expect everyone to think as you do...and isn't that just another specie of sheep. I'm starting to repeat myself.

karmagolden
- 02/23/2013 at 15:21

There will always be an extreme right and left to an issue, but in the middle is some 'truth' from each side. Seems like the only argument against Truthers and Conspiracy Theorists is that they are outright wrong and that there is no corruption in the government, business, people, the whole wide world at all. Here, the only argument against Truthers and Conspiracy Theorists is that there is only the Truth and no conspiracy at all. Just like Big Tobacco when they all swore under oath that nicotine was not addictive. They weren't lying. Only truth- no conspiracy. Seems like some people posting here would have us believe that even the
2008 mortgage crisis and resulting Wallstreet bailout was all in our
heads. We need those 2 words to define the theorists, the brave individuals sometimes whistleblowers, who risk it all, to expose the REAL truth and speak up against the conspiracy that prevents the 'truth' from being exposed. Now back to 'truth'. It is that middle ground, not the extreme right or left. It is not waaaayyyyyyy out there on either side. It is getting right down to the simple truth and that is hard enough.

OK, this has little to do with the larger claims in this presentation, but at 42:11 the aircraft identified as E-4B (advanced airborne command post) is, in fact, a Russian Beriev A-50 AWACS (airborne warning and control system). Then at 42:14 the aircraft shown is a USAF A-3 (AWACS). It's just some sloppy research in aviation; a field of interest to me

As a rule, I do not normally comment or leave any input as to my opinions regarding any film with a topic charged with either conspiracy or overtly religious overtones. This time I couldn't resist.

I am fully aware that I am neither smart enough nor educated as much as I would like to be in all things that matter in life in general. I certainly do not have any inside connections to the issues of the day to make an informed opinion on whether the truth is as told or not.

What I do know is; more time was invested in investigations on the Air India, Swiss Air & Lockerbie disasters prior to coming to conclusions, reasons or fault for said accidents or sabotage. The average criminal trial takes far longer. In fact, I was involved in a fairly serious motorcycle/car accident many years ago & it took over 4 years of investigation, back & forth between my lawyers & ICBC ( the provincial insurance agency where I live). Clandestine investigators following me around taking video & photographs. "Unbiased" doctors examining me to try to disprove my claim of a severely broken back & other injuries along with several surgeries & many metal bolts, pins & rods installed in my body so I could walk again before the case even went to court.

I do not even begin to pretend that I know the truth of 9/11 but I do find it suspect at best that the results were settled so quickly & efficiently, a conclusion reached all the while disposing of evidence & debris from ground zero as it was called without further inquiry. Virtually nothing left to study & investigate as the years went by & questions were & are continually asked.

As someone earlier commented: Most other aviation accidents/disasters have far more & longer investigations into the incident than did the tragic outcome of 9/11. How could such a massive & complicated event with such incredible loss of life be investigated & solved so quickly? The largest terror strike on U.S. soil in history.

I like to believe I am not a simple minded nor excessively naive man. I do not subscribe to any conspiracy truther ideologies or anti-government, survivalist ideals. I just honestly find any of the answers put forth to 9/11 difficult to swallow.

Our leaders in government, world wide, most all have a history of lying & deception. That does not mean that they too cannot be deceived themselves & maybe, just maybe someone somehow got one over on them just as they have countless times done the same to others.

Don't know, probably never will. Just like JFK, Jimmy Hoffa & all the Elvis sightings at the local strip mall. Bottom line: "A little less conversation, a little more action please!"

I would think that the investigation surrounding your motorcycle accident were carried out due to the possibility of fraud. Not saying that you're guilty of fraud but insurers would love any excuse to not pay out. Insurance companies did not suspect wrong doing on 9/11 and paid out immediately. Why would they do this if they thought for one second that those crashes were intentionally carried out by anyone other than hijackers?

Imightberiding
- 02/24/2013 at 08:17

Of course that was the reason regarding my case. No fraud involved. At least not on my part. The lawyers for ICBC & the judge? I'm not so sure about considering the final settlement. But a small insignificant case such as mine taking 4 years to settle? I would suspect the insurance companies would have settled immediately on 9/11 if they thought the planes accidentally flew into the towers. Regardless of who was piloting the planes or who was behind it still points to the crashes being carried out by hijackers. No accidents here for insurance companies to quickly settle up on. Planes were hijacked & intentionally flown into towers killing thousands. Huge case, very quick investigation & settlement.

By the way, I did not receive your comment in my email as per usual. I just happened to revisit this doc & happened upon your response to my comment. Doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason as to order either. I also noticed a new doc on the site that I did not receive notice to via email. Comments are in a different format as well. Wonder what's up?

@Vlatko Do you know what's up? I bet you do.

standucci
- 02/26/2013 at 19:27

Its a good point but I think there are two problems. The insurance companies couldn't deny payment due to public backlash once news of rejected payouts to the victims of 9/11 were made public. Because of Insurance company's implication, either spoken or unspoken, that 9/11 was a conspiracy is equivalent to signing their own death certificate especially within the first couple years of 9/11. The public supported going to war on the blind rage and anger of 9/11 imagine what the public would do if insurance companies refused to payout claims to innocent victims?

The other problem is: Regardless of whether or not it was an "inside job" the victims of 9/11 would still be granted their life insurance claims unless the insurance companies had proof the victims were in some way connected and responsible for 9/11. Similarly, if the hijackers had taken out life insurance policies they would be rejected for the exact opposite reason- they weren't victims, they were perpetrators.

Jack1952
- 02/27/2013 at 20:21

The owners of those buildings, Silverstein for example, also received insurance payments. If he was thought to be involved in the destruction of his own building, there would have been no payouts. It never came into the equation. Insurance companies do not cover fraud. A friend had his hotel burn down and it was declared arson. They couldn't prove that he burnt down his own building but he did not receive a penny until a serial arsonist admitted to setting the fire four years later. Insurance companies do not pay out to those who destroy their own buildings.

ericthefool
- 02/28/2013 at 07:18

Where is this Utopian World you live in. I want to dance with unicorns on rainbows. You are a little too trusting in this Govt. I will tell you that, what happened on 9/11, DID NOT HAPPEN. I wish I could live in fantasy land like you, but some people just know too much.

Jack1952
- 02/28/2013 at 08:31

If you think that Muslim extremists flying hijacked planes into buildings and killing thousands is a depiction of a Utopian World, I shudder to think what you feel is a flawed world. Nothing Utopian about it.

rufusclyde
- 04/08/2013 at 01:05

It's Utopian in that it is rooted in an idea of good guys, the apparatus of state of the US, and wicked Moslem devils. It is not rooted in reality, which is that all states, the US included, are constructs that serve their masters. In the case of the US, the post-war compromise between labor and capital ended in the early seventies, and capital now dominates the state. The wicked Moslems are always linked to the intelligence agencies of the various states, from the 9/11 hijackers to the Bali bombers to the Madrid bombers to the London bombers. They are steered by intelligence agencies, who in turn serve the state, which in turn serves monopoly capitalist elites. So even if the structural damage from the crashes couled with the heat from the fires did produce universal collapse in under twenty seconds of 1,2 and 7, which I do not believe it did, who really ran the operation?

Jack1952
- 04/08/2013 at 02:10

You have your bad guys, too...all the heads of state and the elite. The good guys are all the victims of this cabal.

Isn't it strange that no one ever reacts to this blatant control? No resistance anywhere. Even if they do you'll just chalk it up to government subterfuge. There will never be the revolution against these powers. What a hopeless situation. Even the school shootings are the work of black ops. I suppose that guy who broke into my place a few years ago and stole my piggy bank was a black ops guy, too, sent to reinforce my belief in the need for increased policing. Just tightening the screws.

I suppose your contention is that there are no Muslims that are angry and violent enough anywhere in the world that would do such a thing or things. No small groups striking back at western domination and imperialism. Not a single one of them with the courage, the resourcefulness and the commitment to try and get their oppressors where it hurts. You have a high opinion of the abilities of government and a very low opinion of the rest of us....except yourself, of course. You have the wisdom to see through all their covert operations.

"So even if the structural damage from the crashes couled with the heat from the fires did produce universal collapse in under twenty seconds of 1,2 and 7, which I do not believe it did, who really ran the operation?" If it fell due to the crashes and fires, a small organization is all that is needed to pull it off. Just steal a few planes (done hundreds of times in the past) and fly them into a building and see what happens.

When you make accusations like yours, you should be able to back them up. Saying that you don't trust the government isn't enough. Otherwise, your accusations are as lame as this video.

rufusclyde
- 04/08/2013 at 07:43

Absolutely bizarre non sequitor drivel. All of human history since the dawn of civilization is the story of elites striving to gain and keep power. From Gilgamesh to the Russian oligarchs, people have done what they felt was necessary to gain power. People have reacted to control throughout history. The elites have used propaganda, like the bilge spewed by the Church, to control folks, but occasionally they have to massacre them, or jail them. You might notice that PInkerton men, various state militias and the FBI seldom shot up capitalists in the labor upheavals of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. Try reading some history. The peasant's revolt under Wat Tyler, the revolutions of 1830, the revolutions of 1848, the Russian revolution, the Chinese revolutions of 1912 and 1949, the Mexican revolutions of 1810 and 1910, the Haitian revolution of 1891, the first Indochina war, ad infinitum. The Church dogma has been replaced with the flights of fancy that pass for history taught in public schools and regurgitated in the mainstream media. And by folks like you.

Jack1952
- 04/09/2013 at 01:46

What I am saying is that your accusations are automatic. You feel that since those in power have done wrong to stay in power this is the evidence that proves they always do wrong. Anything that says contrary is automatically a lie.

I am an atheist. Anyone who has been following the comment threads on TDF will verify that I have said it many times. I do not put out church dogma and I do not study science and history with any agenda but to learn all I can. I try to remain neutral as best I can. If you can prove to me that the American government was involved in 9/11, I will believe it. I am not that enamoured of the United States that I blindly adhere to everything that the American way of life is supposed to stand for. All I have heard in the way of evidence concerning government involvement in 9/11 in tenuous at best and is invariably driven by emotion and no facts. I will not be swayed by emotional appeals or the suggestion that I am some sort of brainwashed sheep. If you want people, like myself, to believe your theory, then you have to have evidence. I do not re-write history to suit my political beliefs, no matter what they are or what history tells me.

rufusclyde
- 04/09/2013 at 02:45

I said nothing of the kind. At no time did I make any assertion anything along the lines that "because they do wrong, they always do wrong." In the specific instance of Islamic terrorism in the post-cold war era, the "terrorists" consistently have links to western intelligence apparatus, and the official description of these events are consistently laden with contradictions. An acquaintance of mine was blown up in 2002 in Bali, purpotedly by Jemaa Islamayah, an Indonesian group tied to Australian intelligence, also to Phillipino intelligence, and in turn to US intelligence. The war on terror has consistently moved in a direction wherein US or US satraps militarize regions vital to US strategic interest. So there is plenty of evidence, not ideological dogma, to point the finger at an impetus beyond Moslems-who-hate-our-freedom. The US is home to 46 million on some kind of food stamp program, while it maintains hundreds of overseas military bases and is fighting multiple wars in regions that in no way affect the "freedom" of US citizens at home. So in light of the overwhelming evidence that the Global War on Terror (TM) is a complete fraud, I could care less what you believe. It's more your nonsense-spewing that I take exception to, rather than your mis-informed beliefs.

Jack1952
- 04/09/2013 at 05:12

You touch on one of my biggest criticisms of the United States. I object, in the strongest way, to the military presence around the world and the huge military budget while Americans live in poverty. I hate the Tea Party, me first, attitude. Trickle down economics is a fancy way to say "I don't want to contribute to the welfare of my country." Corporations are allowed to lobby for their personal projects and try their best to corrupt the political process. A lot of this is the fault of the American electorate. The educated and financially secure vote. The rest throw their hands up and ask "What's the use?" I wish the American public, especially those who are at the bottom end of the economic scale, would get involved. They don't realize the power they have.

Claiming that terrorist groups have ties to Western intelligence is too vague. How can anyone know, for fact, that Australian intelligence were involved with the tragedy in Bali. Just because it makes sense to a political ideology, doesn't make it so.

rufusclyde
- 04/09/2013 at 06:55

That bit about it making "sense to a political ideology" is more drivel. Just because you are ignorant of a thing, does not make it not so. Way back a long time ago, the right wing dictator Suharto's intelligence agency made pals with Moslem fundies. Eventually BAKIN created Komando JIhad, a fundy paramilitary group, or terrorist organization, if you like. This group was used to identify and monitor "jihadists", some of whom were then sent to Afghanistan as part of the fomenting of Brzezinski's "arc of crisis", that is being stoked to this day in Syria, Iran, Azerbaijan, etc. Anyhow, the Indonesian jihadists were sponsored by Saudis and linked up with Phillipinos and Thais, the Phillipinos being part of the Moro front and the Abu Sayaff group. Just like Bin Laden, the SE Asian "terrorists" were US assets. The Australians admitted forknowledge, and Australian intelligence was involved in the investigation in concert with the Indonesians, and nobody ever raised the issue of the JI relationship to the indonesian state or the US, despite the fact that it is well established that the JI 'terrorists" worked for the US. My grandmother gave me a kitschy little plaque that said "you ain't learnin' nothin' when you're talkin'". You are sure not learnin' nothin' when you're typing comments.

Jack1952
- 04/10/2013 at 14:30

You certainly cover a lot of territory and create quite a spider's web of intrigue. Don't see a lot of documentation to back it up, however. I'm assuming that you are claiming that Australia had foreknowledge of the bombings in Bali in 2002. Could you direct me to any information that validates this claim and the nature of this foreknowledge. All I could find was predictions of the second bombing in 2005. This would make sense as it follows the axiom "Fool me once, shame...".
Foreknowledge of the first bombing be a little more puzzling, depending on the nature of this knowledge. Not saying in isn't so, but I need confirmation from credible sources.

rufusclyde
- 04/10/2013 at 16:30

You certainly use a lot of words to convey the message that you don't mind commenting on subjects about which you are totally ignorant. I didn't create anything, with regard to this subject. I stated originally that the Bali bombers were part of a network of paramilitaries used by US intelligence, and explained the nature of that relationship. This is a comment board for documentary films, so that might explain why you don't see much documentation. I suggest you try a library. Your last caveat is pretty funny though, so maybe your ignorance is feigned and part of a joke.

Jack1952
- 04/10/2013 at 19:11

"The Australians admitted forknowledge". Copied and pasted from your comment. It certainly suggests they knew ahead of time about something and since you went on the say they investigated with the Indonesian government, I assumed the Bali bombings. You led me there and I asked for a source. I can only assume this statement was untrue or I misunderstood its meaning.

Go to the library is your answer for documentation. Most people with proof of their allegations are only too glad to give it. You seem quite eager to make the accusations but not so eager to show the precise information that would prove their veracity. Besides, isn't the library the repository of misinformation on history and science? It certainly was the place I went to for the material to complete school projects so I could receive a good education or as you say " flights of fancy that pass for history taught in public schools". It's going to be difficult for me to disseminate the propaganda from truth without proper guidance in a place like that.

rufusclyde
- 04/10/2013 at 19:29

I led you nowhere. You used an appeal to emotion, a propaganda technique, or the reflex of somebody who shoots off their mouth without any knowledge on a given subject, by alleging that I had created a "spiderweb of intrigue". It is a fact that US intelligence has directed the use of "jihadists" in the pursuance of US strategic aims. It is a fact that among these jihadists were Indonesians. It is a fact that among the Indonesian jihadists were assets of Indonesian intelligence. It is a fact that Australian and US intelligence have a history of operating with Indonesian intelligence. It is a fact that subsequent to the Bali bombings, anti-terror legislation was introduced in Australia, and the Australian government lent military support to the US attack on Iraq that was equalled only by the UK and Canada. On the other hand however, there apparently exists a network of wicked Moslems, who intend to bring in a new Caliphate by killing Australian tourists, British and Spanish commuters and American office workers. The fact that these wicked Moslems are all connected to intelligence operations overseen by the CIA, and that the attacks coincide with major US geo-strategic issues and consistently result in increased militarization in US proxies is just one of those things that happens when you party naked. Again, if you want to learn something, type less, read more.

Jack1952
- 04/10/2013 at 20:05

Tell me what to read, where you read this information, and I will. That's all I'm asking.

rufusclyde
- 04/10/2013 at 20:39

No, you are making bizarre claims about how no one resists state control, facetiously claiming that a piggybank thief is a government operative, alleging that
I am spinning a web of intrigue, and just generally puking out a lot of drivel without positing a single counterfactual assertion. Odd that you make so many posts and then claim that rather than undertaking output, you're really looking to intake information.

Jack1952
- 04/10/2013 at 21:56

I am now just asking for information. Forget the rest. Give me the sources that you use that convince you that I have a distorted view of the world. I want to see them. If I am wrong, I want to know how wrong and why.

rufusclyde
- 04/10/2013 at 22:02

Fella, sources that I use did not convince me that you have a distorted view of the world, reading the claptrap you emit in your voluminous posts did that. Instead of banging out a few hundred posts on the forums for these docs while claiming that you're on a quest for knowledge and understanding, put your little fingers to work typing keywords into a search engine.

Jack1952
- 04/10/2013 at 22:54

Help me with the keywords, then. Be generous and save me the trouble of reading a lot of irrelevant material.

rufusclyde
- 04/11/2013 at 06:27

I've heard that the Lord helps those who help themselves. I have never seen firsthand evidence of this, but rest assured, I have no interest in helping you, so perhaps you can give it a whirl. I worked in a bar years ago, and you remind me of the sphincters who used to pontificate on various subjects in a seemingly desperate need to display a boundless lack of knowledge.

Jack1952
- 04/11/2013 at 19:51

I've worked as a bartender for ten years myself. I'm no stranger to small talk. I tried to show a little more respect for my customers and didn't look down on them, unless they became violent.

Since you won't or can't give me the evidence I asked for, I can only assume you took the facts and forced them into your own world view. You have done nothing to show me otherwise.

On a positive note, however, I did learn a lot in this discussion with you and I thank you for that. I googled some of terrorist groups you mentioned and they led me to all kinds of interesting sites and learning new things is what it was all about in the first place.

rufusclyde
- 04/12/2013 at 16:44

The devil is in the prepositions. Follow the exchange. You claimed that I had spun a web of intrigue BEFORE you asserted that you couldn't find any information relevent to the subject, not SINCE I didn't provide information to you that you required in order to make an informed comment. Bloviator, thy name is Jack. Again, the hundreds of posts that you make don't indicate a search for knowledge. The flow is going the wrong way.

Jay
- 02/26/2013 at 07:28

Have you had a chance to read the 9/11 commission report? I recommend it, the investigation was very in depth, methodical, and redundant in proving facts. What it was not however is long in length, because the need for a decade of investigation was not necessary with the amount of man power that was assigned to the events. These conspiracy documentaries on their own seem all too believable and fact based until someone goes through them piece by piece to prove the fact that hijackers flew the planes into the towers, the Pentagon, and a field in Pennsylvania. I think everyone owes it to the victims to read the commission report before/after they watch and take these films and make a decision as solid truths and decide for themselves. In general most people have the hour and a half to watch a convincing documentary and agree with the opinions. They do not have the will or want to read a lengthy rather drab book or investigative reports that can point them to the truth because it is not as convenient or entertaining as a film. Of course I'm not saying this was you as you seem to be open in your opinions. I highly recommend reading the report.

Dario Sartor
- 02/27/2013 at 06:07

Well, "Jay", the 911 Commission Report was a half-baked farce. They never explained the actual gravity collapse of the twin towers, let alone mentioning the 3rd tower that fell that day (Building 7) at all. Imagine that. Also they never checked if the buildings came down via explosives, despite many many witnesses (including firefighters, police, personnel, in and around all 3 buildings) hearing multiple explosions going off before and as the towers fell.

Some "investigation". It's was a total sham. And so are you, troll.

AE911Truth has over 1700 architects and engineers agreeing that those 3 towers were brought down via controlled demolition. I'll take their expertise over some trolls any day.

Jack1952
- 02/27/2013 at 20:05

1700 architects and engineers in the entire world out of millions. I guess the millions who do not belong in this group are not expert enough. 1700 is not an impressive figure. In fact, it is an exceptionally poor showing.

Did you actually read the 9/11 commission report or did you decide that it is a sham and therefore not worth your time?

JGHSucka
- 03/06/2013 at 10:59

Senator Max Cleland, who resigned from the 9/11 Commission after calling it a “national scandal”, stated in a 2003 PBS interview,

“I’m saying that’s deliberate. I am saying that the
delay in relating this information to the American public out of a hearing… series of hearings, that several members of Congress knew eight or ten months ago, including Bob Graham and others, that was deliberately slow walked… the 9/11 Commission was deliberately slow walked, because the Administration’s policy was, and its priority
was, we’re gonna take Saddam Hussein out.”

9/11 Commissioner Bob Kerry also has unanswered questions. As reported by Salon, he believes that there are legitimate reasons to believe an alternative version to the official story.

“There are ample reasons to suspect that there may
be some alternative to what we outlined in our version,” Kerrey said. The commission had limited time and limited resources to pursue its investigation, and its access to key documents and
witnesses was fettered by the administration."

Commissioner Tim Roemer, speaking to CNN, stated that Commission members were considering a criminal probe of false statements. As quoted,

“We were extremely frustrated with the false
statements we were getting,” Roemer told CNN. “We were not sure of the intent, whether it was to deceive the commission or merely part
of the fumbling bureaucracy.”

Believe what you will.. or only what you've been taught.

Jack1952
- 03/22/2013 at 19:15

Without a doubt, the Bush administration used the 9/11 attacks as a reason to invade Iraq. That doesn't prove they took part in the 9/11 attacks. All it shows is an opportunistic administration willing to use events to its own advantage. I would have been frustrated with a government who didn't care about the facts of the attacks but only in how to manipulate the facts to suit their own agenda. This does not surprise me at all. My believing that they had nothing to do with the attacks does not mean I am a fan of Bush or his administration. In fact, I dislike them, intensely.

greeninwi
- 03/21/2013 at 17:53

When someone explains to me, scientifically, how WTC7 fell...I will buy the official story. So, please, explain how a steel reinforced concrete skyscraper can fall at free fall speeds without being hit by anything. Conveniently #7 is not discussed in the 9/11 commission report beyond stating that internal "fires" caused the building to collapse at the rate of gravity. I won't even get into the BBC reporting the building had fallen while it was still standing in the back drop. I do not know what happened that day, nor do I know exactly who to blame. However, I am not a fool. Buildings (speaking of #7) do not just pulverize themselves without "assistance". Period.

octavio
- 03/18/2013 at 23:05

the 911 comission report is not meant to explain the collapse of the towers. they didnt mention building 7 cuz it was colateral damage. The purpose of the report is to study the causes of the attack, not the the effects of the planes hitting the towers.
I would take the espertise of architects and published scientific papers (havent found a single one from acual scientists). I am not American and i dont think im biased.

guest
- 04/10/2013 at 05:31

and where do the tons and tons of steel and iron alloy disapear with out thermite explosions that can melt those metals while a jet engine could only reach a fraction of that,

Arthur Boucher
- 02/28/2013 at 02:59

i highly recommend you use physics.there is absolutely no way those buildings could fall that fast that neatly. it's impossible.period.the attacks themselves are impossible.that should be obvious.there's no book that can change physics of falling structures. the way they cleared and got rid of the buildings is against the law.i'm not saying your s*upid , but you clearly have bad luck thinking.or your cia or fbi. there hasn't been many if at all terrorist attacks.every case it's the cia or fbi holding someones hand , providing the materials used in the attacks pushing them them to do what they want. even Putin is laughing at America. at least he dosen't make a law that he's allowed to terrorize his country.

Jay
- 03/01/2013 at 08:08

You are a structural engineer correct?

batvette
- 03/03/2013 at 17:49

They fell neatly? Have you seen satellite pics of that day?

"Cleared and got rid of the buildings"?

A convenient way to excuse not having a bit of evidence- they took it all away before we could find it.

"or your cia or fbi"

Is this where I should stoop to equal depths and accuse you of being a terrorist, or one of our rivals, like French or Russian? Like anyone who questions my conspiracy theory MUST therefore be employed by the conspirators to do so- it's impossible I could just be plain silly wrong and it's human nature for people to come along and point this out?

AE911Truth represent less than 1/10 of one percent of their profession in the US, Canada and Europe, the regions they tapped. If you think that is significant enough to even mention then you don't understand the scientific method or its fundamentals of consensus over fringe.

That's hardly surprising as I've never seen a truther approach this with anything but ideology first.

rufusclyde
- 04/08/2013 at 00:59

Scatvette! Still spinning for all you're worth! Do you have figures for the number of architects and engineers in Canada, the US and Europe who have undertaken to study the available evidence from the 2001 attacks and then concluded that the officially-sanctioned account is likely to be accurate? The number of professionals who belong to AE911 Truth in no way correlates to the scientific method. The history of scientific discovery is one long story of dissenting opinions, from heliocentrism to eugenics to string theory. Kuhn stated that, "as science progresses, it's concepts are repeatedly destroyed and replaced". Your whole view of reality is predicated on a demonstrably false notion of a morally superior exceptionalism of the United States government, and an understanding of history that is supported by one hundred years worth of propaganda.

Dennis
- 03/02/2013 at 10:57

I have and from what i read from it report of it I say nuts!!! to you I have over 2yr's of looking at this 9/11but thank you for your time.??

Michael Hein
- 03/06/2013 at 00:13

WOW! Are you in denial? Watch all of the video that's out there and then ask yourself honestly if you think planes and fire brought those buildings down. They clearly blew up rather than fell over other than building 7 which fell perfectly in its footprint at free fall speed after being hit by nothing at all. ALL 1st responders reported multiple explosions, traces of thermite was everywhere, evidence was rushed away so as not to be investigated, PULVERIZED dust from river to river which was 2-3 in. thick and not to mention that no steel structure has EVER given way due to fire. Our government is full of greedy, egotistical, selfish liars and are surrounded by 'banksters' that want nothing more than more money and more power. I'm done here, sry if I blew up

$38185636
- 02/23/2013 at 05:22

the official 9/11 story (unbelievable fiction / aka the mother of all conspiracy theories) is what is known as subterfuge, which is defined as deceit used in order to achieve one's goal

wow you yanks you gotta get your government in line or its gonna cause a hell of problem stamp out the corruption is a must!!!!! its you the public

the people and i just hope you still got some good people that work for your intel agencies that are prepared to fight against this corruption and step forward but alone your gonna get wacked buy the bullys ,,,,,J.F.K.......YES THE LAST TRUE AMERICAN PRESIDENT..LOOK WHAT THEY DID TO THAT POOR MAN FOR WANTING CLARITY

GOD BLESS ALL THE VICTIMS HOPE THOSE OF YOU ARE LEFT STAND FOR WHATS RIGHT AND FIGHT FOR JUSTICE

the two planes which hit the towers were drones. just look at the footage. these planes are light gray and do not have any markings on them....the question is what happened to all of the people who were on the two passenger planes which were erroneously thought to have hit the towers

Interesting theories to be sure. Also, they're not likely to be truly debunked, just insulting and specifically disregarded as loony conspiracy nonsense. You have to love the way no real debunking occurs, just alternate theories after the fact that are used to create doubt. People are oddly more comfortable with reports that reveal nothing than with sensible reasons that cast doubt on an investigation that never actually occurred.

I believe there was collusion somewhere in the government. We will never positively know, IMO, who did what. I think the Cheney/Rumsfeld duo is evil enough to be part of it.

One could say that anything that took down both towers and other buildings is going to have a massive effect and reach that could point in a thousand directions if you wanted to pursue them, but it does fit conveniently into a government conspiracy.

People have been believing unsubstantiated things for as long as there have been people. What would be easier to believe: that a small group of fanatics managed to take advantage of the rivalry of the many US intelligence and law enforcement services or that a cabal of hundreds of people worked for decades at a conspiracy that in the end had no real effect whatsoever? The die hard conspiracists that are left are like religionists. Even if they would get access to all the evidence surrounding 9/11 and got to speak to everyone involved, they still wouldn't accept anything that contradicts their opinion. The fact that you can publish anything on the internet, no matter how far fetched proves that there is no organised conspiracy. If there was, the conspiracists would be the first to be silenced.

what makes you disregard consistant facts with the official inconsistant fiction?if you are unable to doubt then you are able to serve.

Me
- 02/23/2013 at 00:47

Explain your facts.

dmxi
- 02/24/2013 at 01:01

my facts?explain your.....what the hell,won't work if you are convinced by the commision report.everyone is entitled to take their pick....even if it's their own nose....trying to touch the 'processing' organ to see if it's at least 'there' when it's not functioning.

disasters/terrorist attacks
d....& the list goes on as you surely know except if this is your first encounter with this topic.

Me
- 02/26/2013 at 01:47

It failed bcuz of HEAT The jet fuel. The structure And yes, they proved it.

pwndecaf
- 02/26/2013 at 02:27

Burning jet fuel only lasts for about 10 minutes and it doesn't melt steel at the temperature it burns. It can weaken it, but after only an hour the remaining fire will bring down a skyscraper? Never happened before. But it happened twice here? Three times?

Me
- 02/26/2013 at 08:38

You just said it....and answered it yourself. :-)... . Melting/weakening are 2 different things, yes. But the heating weakening of all the weight from above above(floors)that caused it to pancake. It is plainly seen on all video's. Key word===>weight from weakened steel beams. Also, the way it was built made it fall the way it did on BOTH buildings. Damn, I forgot the websites name on the construction method of the how & why. It is on Google 9/11 heat steel failings. BTW, ..the amount of jet fuel was HUGE! PEACE OUT....Me

pwndecaf
- 02/27/2013 at 01:52

What I remember seeing was smoke. You've heard the phrase "All smoke and no fire." Guess what that actually means. Not a very hot fire.

Me
- 02/27/2013 at 02:07

I've seen that jet grade burn. Yes alotta smoke, but hot it sure is. You can say what ever u want. Was NO conspiracy. Just very bad org from the gov's security agencies. Just horrible. They all think their **** don't stink. They "ALL" had a rude awakening on 9/11 w/their BS ways. I was there. You were not. Saw flames burn, people jumping & hearing the thunderous noise the human body makes when hitting the ground. Nothing was left pof the body. Just wetness & blood stains & body parts. Heard at least 35. I hated to look.
Theres no proof of a conspiracy. Just people like you who were NOT there. Like I told ya before. Wheres your facts. U ain't got none just a very active imagination. Hey try Hollywood?...lol. U b kool....Me

pwndecaf
- 02/28/2013 at 03:06

If you were there it would not give you any more insight than me as to who did what. Even if you died in one of those buildings you would have even less insight. That argument is a non-starter.

If you were really there, I probably saw a lot more on tv than you would have seen live.

Me
- 02/28/2013 at 04:18

WOW, u r 1 fool on the subject of REALITY! LMAO@U For you to say what you did is not only stupid out of reality! Do not send/reply back, if U do I will only delete it. U r not worth the effort! stupid answers for reality! U r a KID! Not waistin any more time on a block of ur stupidity. . WOW!

Jack1952
- 02/27/2013 at 21:05

The jet also took out columns that helped to support the building. The resulting fires, which burned until the moment of collapse and quite strongly, caused the steel to buckle and list toward the crash site and finally give way to the weight of the floors above it. Any close up of the buildings will show intense fires burning right up until the point of collapse. To prove controlled demolition you have to show the existence of explosives , how it was installed, where and when it was installed and who installed it. A dubious account of thermite by a guy who collected a small sample is not close to evidence. The 9/11 commission report gives a detailed explanation of how these buildings collapsed. A lot more detail than anything you will see on youtube.

Ryan Han
- 03/01/2013 at 09:56

You work for the Government, right?

Jack1952
- 03/01/2013 at 12:18

Wow! Another predictable conspiracy argument. If you run out of evidence to present you just accuse those who disagree with your theory of being in on it.

I'm not even American and I wouldn't live there, mostly because of their lousy political system. I work continental shift in a factory, an ordinary working stiff. I doubt you'll believe that, however.

dmxi
- 02/26/2013 at 16:01

well,they didn't actually prove it (if you mean the popular mechanics set up) that has been debunked as false settings as the computer reconstruction was also.

Jonny
- 03/04/2013 at 21:33

when did they prove it? can you please share?

dmxi
- 02/24/2013 at 22:36

that comment is in total compliant to official media outlet... that you seem to be part of the machinery itself.....have you served?if so,do you condone military actions that have been implemented,meaning to pacify/democritize iraq/afghanistan?if so,have they functioned to do the forementioned?i'm anxious to hear your view if you have one...?
so,let's hear your rhetoric of sanctioning global state policy & you explain the benefits of 'al-quaida'(don't forget,this name derives from a CIA asset meaning :the base;but i'm sure you know that?!)
& the cui bono of the aftermath?you explain to me the coincidences, which are fingerpoints to logical reasoning in exempt to the official report?
i understand your exclusion....but don't question my rationality!
(meaning:if you can't be constructive ;stay!)

Me
- 02/24/2013 at 23:23

Well, lets see. I was in Nam, My daughter was in Iraq etc...I was in NYC 1/2 mile away or so when they hit those towers and came down! Were you in any of those places? BMX?...those are bike's, .. right? A kid thing under 35 I believe.
Your age I do not know. but my daughter is 32. Its easy to see what your saying. I do not believe the gov for except Iraq w/Bush League & Co. blew that BS w/"slam dunk" & even going into Iraq in the 1st place. Those Muslims fools did it alone, even tho I believe the US Gov BLEW IT big time!
Funny how when 1 thing looks outta place,..""CONSPIRACY" they yell! No way. Yes, some they have covered up but I laugh when people yell conspiracy when 1 single thing looks outta place. Cya....Me

dmxi
- 02/25/2013 at 18:39

much respect for your biography & your daughters...whats her take on the matter?

by the way it's DMXI,an abreviation in tag of my real name & not BMX...but i deserved 'one' for my nose picking allegory....cu2......me(also)
ps:you should look a litttle deeper then you will find a whole lotta things are out of place.

Me
- 02/25/2013 at 22:34

Oh ok, DMX name thing. . my bad. Just bcuz they "look" outta place does not mean consp'rty! Being older than T-Rex I have been there done that, seen it, lived it. Know facts from the source. 9/11..no consp'rty at all. Just the lack of thinking those Muslim fools didn't have the balls or know how to doing it was 1 thinking. Who would fig'd fools could take 4 planes, and making it look easy to hi-jack 'em cleanly, and kill themselves flying into buildings etc.. ? Not me or "MANY" Gov people either. Any human being w/balls & anger can do just about ANYTHING!!! Plus doing it for 74 virgins each man??? as a young guy, If I knew I'd get 74 virgins, all to my liking and wanting. I woulda flown a 20 foot 10-hp balsa wood plane upside down into Mt Rushmore!!! KA-BOOOOM!!! Ok girls, ...lets go!

U B KOOL!.....Me

dmxi
- 02/26/2013 at 16:04

those nutty muslims you mention had cia connections & the fbi was ordered to back down...sheesh surely a coincidence??!

greycb
- 11/03/2013 at 17:57

are you for real 1 thing out of place more things out of place than can shake a stick at with official story hate that conspiracy word tho honest people with genuine doubts and concerns get labled and ignored so if there is in fact there is a CONSPIRACY its easier for the perpetrators to get away with it do you have NO questions or doubts after viewing i take it all the (truthers)evidence that wd make you quite gullible unless you have more answers than everyone of us (conspiracy theorists}just trying to get a little clarity

Richard Chase
- 02/22/2013 at 18:46

If people can't see the truth- it's really so easy, then they simply do not want to. Or, they simply are not capable of reorienting their biased and regulated education. 9/11 was in the works for almost 20 years.

Anyone who believes otherwise is imbalanced or instructed to believe this way. Period.

Personally, I have absolutely no interest in the people who accept this travesty as presented by the government, et al. They are a waste of time and energy that could be better spent daydreaming about the way things used to be in America.

Your words apply to no one better than you. I see this rigid, unreasonable, blinkered, black and white mindset in most "truthers". You seem to have made up your mind up for good...not healthy.

BTW, anyone who hijacks the word "truth" is rightly viewed with incredulity and suspicion.

Richard Chase
- 02/22/2013 at 21:07

Hogwash. Just hogwash, sir.

Dean Edgington
- 02/23/2013 at 03:36

Really? That’s a dead-end retort. Elucidate
sir...if you can.

princeton
- 02/24/2013 at 20:27

I'm not certain but i believe the word "truthers" was actually conceived and is mostly used derogatorily by those referring to people who question the official 911 story.

Dean Edgington
- 05/21/2013 at 08:44

I understand, but I think it has become a derogatory term because the 9/11 *truth* movement kinda asked for it. To refer to them as "truthers" is an efficient pointer. No one should claim to represent the truth in such a hotly contested debate. How dare they, damn these so-called "truthers" whether they be religious, political or otherwise. I'm not buying it and I will continue to use the term...we all know who they are.

Epicurus
- 02/23/2013 at 18:48

I completely agree with Dean Edington.

What would you say to someone who was in your position and then after years of watching the videos and looking at the evidence, decided that it was not an inside job? Someone with no bias, no interest, just concerned with evidence.

you keep dreaming about the way things used to be in america. keep dreaming for that fabled better time that never existed. unless of course you were a white middle age male.

Richard Chase
- 02/23/2013 at 20:03

If after years... it lead me to the truth, so be it. But that's not going to happen.

And I don't have to 'dream', that better time happened, I was there.

Yes, I'm "white" and past being "middle-aged." Being white enabled me to visit the beautiful country of Viet Nam- twice.

Travis Tapp
- 02/24/2013 at 06:59

Being white enabled me to visit the beautiful country of Viet Nam- twice. spoken like no other races were there

Guest
- 02/25/2013 at 15:53

wasn't very beautiful by the time you left...

Richard Chase
- 02/26/2013 at 22:18

I agree, it wasn't my war. I was 17 years old and didn't know a bomb from my rear end.

Epicurus
- 02/25/2013 at 19:23

Well I personally believed that 9/11 was caused by the bush administration, namely Rumsfeld and Cheney who I hate with a passion. I watched all the documentaries and argued with people just like you do (sometimes even calling them sheep and just blaming them for watching fox news). However after looking for answers to my questions and beliefs, i started to find that there were rational explanations. there are plenty of documentaries and websites out there as well as entire independent committees from universities and other organization like popular mechanics, who all have great explanations.

i suggest you keep looking but stop acting like you already have your mind made up.

Richard Chase
- 02/26/2013 at 22:18

Who's "acting"?

Epicurus
- 02/27/2013 at 00:57

okay, stop behaving like you have all the answers and already know all that you need to know.

a_no_n
- 02/24/2013 at 21:32

Instead you choose to believe the people making millions out of selling you some fantasy.
If people like Alex Jones were telling the truth with their paranoid fantasies, would they be making $5 million taxable dollars a year from exposing it, or would they be dead?
Kennedy would probably be able to answer that question better than me.

Richard Chase
- 02/24/2013 at 21:50

Hmm... Alex Jones. Yep, got me there. I can't figure out for the life of me, why he's not "dead." But, he certainly isn't my only source of information. The Web oozes with information. All kinds of information. And after analyzing what I had digested, the conclusion is obvious for reasonable people. It wasn't 19 Muslims.

a_no_n
- 02/24/2013 at 22:01

how is the conclusion reasonable? wheres the evidence?
The web also oozes with information about magical ponies that have adventures and are coloured like rainbows...doesn't mean my little pony actually exists!
tell me, did you look to see if any of that 'information' you 'digested' had been debunked? Because most of the Truther stuff has been fully debunked now.

The scientific method is about questioning EVERYTHING, even the stuff we'd like to believe the most.

Richard Chase
- 02/24/2013 at 22:09

Okay. The "scientific method" you tout has been used to discover nano-thermite was used in the buildings. As far as the rest, well, there is too much. I've told it to death, to people like you- you are a person aren't you?

a_no_n
- 02/25/2013 at 00:14

lol, no it wasn't...that theory has been disproved time and time again...Like i said, if 'Truthers' were telling the truth, they would be hiding underground, not making millions of dollars every year from it

Am i a person...wtf is that even meant to mean? In your deluded little brain, it isn't even remotely possible that another human being could possibly hold a differing opinion to yourself? You've seriously got to ask if i'm a person...that's pretty sad dude!

Debunking911 . com has a pretty decent explaination for the Thermite thing...demolishing something like the twin towers would have taken Tons and TONS of Thermite...ridiculous ammounts.

Richard Chase
- 02/25/2013 at 01:33

After giving you the benefit of doubt, it's clear what you think you're doing. No more time for you. Good day, sir.

a_no_n
- 02/25/2013 at 01:50

People tend to react like that when their faith is challenged...it's much easier to just ignore the truth and cling to the fantasy. I gave you my reasons for my opinions, and a source to back them up...Where's your evidence?

Kendrick Reed
- 02/25/2013 at 09:41

And yes I know of the popular mechanic so called debunking.. that was undetailed.. just theories with no support

a_no_n
- 02/25/2013 at 12:42

How? What's wrong with it? It all seems perfectly valid to me. The website i showed goes into extensive detail on why most 9/11 truther theories are bullsh1t.
When you're having grown up debates, you need to prove WHY you think your opinion is correct. It isn't enough to just say no...this isn't baby school! If you want your ridiculous theories listened to, you need to be able to back them up properly...just poo-pooing legitimate science because it isn't what you want to hear doesn't really cut it...especially when you're arguing for a totally deluded paranoid fantasy.

batvette
- 03/03/2013 at 18:33

I'll chime in and add that the scientific method holds as one of its basic principles that simply offering doubt or disbelief of a prevailing hypothesis held by consensus is not a credible position of dissent.
A viable alternative theory must be published to withstand similar scrutiny by their colleagues.
Thus it is laughable that truther arguments are often peppered with the word "science", when the entire position is built upon simply disbelieving everything the gov't claims.

Rocky Racoon
- 03/04/2013 at 22:10

Not only did Muslim shijakcer's fly into the wtc Saddam Hussien had weapons of mass destruction and had to be murdered by his own people ( imported mercenaries currently employed in Libya attacking Syria) That WTC bombing was the Pearl Harbour they needed to get the American people to buy into a protracted war in the Middle East just like the PNAC claimed it would or is that a fantasy cooked up by truther's as well. The planes alone could not drop those towers and furniture fire could not bring down wtc7 and still no wmd's what a surprise. And Obama has done nothing but increased the security state measures that will be used against the American people don't know why they care about the guns so much their civil rights are already gone bye bye. Your choices Pepsi or Coke Regular or Supersized that is Western Style Democracy. The next thing you know these gun tooter's will be turned into Militia's by the likes of Glen Beck to protect murcans from all the brown skinned people that snuk into our country illegally. If we don't destroy ourelves in a 3rd world war global warming will get us. We will be passed the tipping points by 2037 no arctic ice and melting permafrost will release enough methane to do the job-South America will last maybe a decade or so longer so...If I had enogh moolah I would set up shop somewhere down there. With all the survival kits my compound could handle. Sometimes it is wiser to just head for the hills

JL Summe
- 02/28/2013 at 17:30

So one plane is equal to tons and tons of thermite? One more thing of interest is that building 7 had just had one floor converted to a special operations bunker to keep the one's in charge safe. They wasted no time in getting the hell out of there didn't they. That work was obviously used for something else.

a_no_n
- 02/28/2013 at 17:37

no...but all the office equipment in the buildings was enough to weaken the infastructure of the building...Steel loses it's strength at 500 celcius...a heat easily achieved by a long burning office fire soaked in high power jet fuel.

JL Summe
- 04/05/2013 at 05:07

the fire was oxygen starved by looking at the black smoke and aircraft fuel does not get as hot as you have believed. On a side note those buildings were not the greatest money makers in the world. From what I have read they may have been only 50% occupied. Just step back and think about it for awhile. Most Americans fell for this hook,line and sinker. We are nothing but controlled media sheep and that's a fact Jack!

batvette
- 03/03/2013 at 18:42

Actually they attempt to present their predetermined conclusions as scientific by publishing them in a journal. Unfortunately that journal was of the lowest repute and its senior editor resigned after their paper was published saying she hadn't even been contacted for her editorial approval before it went to print.
That very well documented fact seems to have escaped truthers field of vision. Why is that?
Never mind if we forget the fraudulent nature of the Bentham's journals, the analysis has been reviewed by experts who pointed out flaws in its methodology from the very first page.
Again you people are oblivious, if there was any truth to the points you base your beliefs upon the press WOULD seize upon it as the story of the century. They don't because they looked at it and saw it for the nonsense it was.
So many significant journalists did give you the time of day some years ago, no gov't evil forces silence them. Now you're like lepers. Why is that? Why can't you self reflect upon yourselves and see how silly this has become?

Useful Eater
- 03/04/2013 at 14:56

The press tow the line.
They lie and spread propaganda all day long,they are part of the problem,they regurgitate what they are told by powerful people and yet you think they would jump on a 9/11 conspiracy story.
They will not bite the hand that feeds them.
How anyone can watch mainstream news and think of it as anything but government propaganda is beyond me.

Jack1952
- 03/05/2013 at 04:26

Yet it was the press that broke the Watergate Scandal, reported on the Iran-Contra affair, nearly destroyed Clinton and let us know about Abu Ghraib. Automatic disbelief is as blind as automatic belief.

How does the government feed mainstream news? They rely on ratings,advertising revenue and sales. That is their money maker.

Useful Eater
- 03/05/2013 at 04:56

It feeds them the stories they report,I didn't mean they paid them.
Journalists that ask difficult questions don't get invited or get to ask any more questions of government spokespeople.

You messed up your disbelief slur.

The examples you use are pre 9/11 excluding the Abu Ghraib thing,a cat that was already out of the bag,not due to investigative journalism but one brave man.
I mention that because daily the press gets worse and its certainly worse now than in Nixons time.

I guess in fairness I should have said alot or most of the press is worthless instead of my generalisation.

There is a good reason people are dumping mainstream media for alternative news sources,you can think what you like about these new sources of information but it is an obvious sign that alot of people are getting sick of war propaganda and news stories with the depth of an episode of
bugs bunny.

SilverBee
- 02/25/2013 at 18:25

Richard, I've almost avoided listening and watching, so hard it was for me to even think the worst--even though part of me could believe anything of the Bush administration wolves. I'm watching this documentary now, and I see, I see, I see all the connections. My only questions--and ones I can't dismiss--are, "How in the world could this many people get together to bring all this about? Considering the time it would take to arrange everything--building renovations, even a paint company which is apparently thought to have supplied some kind of flammable paint used in the Tower(!); arrangements as to placements of offices of whistleblower-types so they'd be on the right floors(!); scheduling of events and traveling so conspirators would be "out of town" so to speak; arrangements of suppliers of specific tools that would be used later; and so, and so on, and so on--how and who and ?????

There is no scenario in which my mind can pull together everything that would be required. And then we say an incompetent president made all this happen. I'll keep watching to the end of the documentary. If those questions get answered, then there's something to this. Otherwise, it just remains a question in my mind.

Richard Chase
- 02/26/2013 at 22:27

It really is extremely complicated. The incredible amount of people in collusion. It's taken years and years to put in proper perspective. However, in a nutshell, think "Illuminati." And that entails far more than most people realize, understand, or believe. A whole another world, among us.

With their worldwide, corporate power structure, owning the banks and factions of the U.S. government, coupled with the immense wealth they have amassed, it was child's play to manipulate 'us' and it continues.

The people on this thread who adamantly oppose any suggestion of a mass conspiracy are either plants or of no intellectual consequence. In other words, useless to the discourse. That's the intention, after all. Thank you so much for your response- A voice of reason.

Jack1952
- 03/05/2013 at 04:29

The voice of a true autocrat. "Agree with me or be quiet". You are no different than those you accuse.

Useful Eater
- 03/04/2013 at 15:03

There were 130,000 people working on the Manhattan project at a cost of $26 billion in todays money.
People like you and I were completely oblivious to its existence at the time.

That is what I think about when people say it would require too many people to remain a secret.

Jack1952
- 03/05/2013 at 04:33

That was a war effort against a common enemy. Americans were united in their fight against the Axis powers. 9/11 was an attack on America. How do you get thousands to go along with such a plan and not any one of them have seconds thoughts about how terrible an act it was. They were being asked to assist in a plan to kill fellow citizens.

Useful Eater
- 03/05/2013 at 12:54

Im not saying 130,00 people were involved in 9/11.

I don't know who knew what,my own opinion is that it was in some sense allowed to happen,that I think wouldn't require so many treacherous murderers.

I use the Manhattan project example to get people to think that just maybe they are completely clueless about what happens behind the scenes.

As for American citizens being unwilling to kill fellow citizens,thats a somewhat weak argument.
The US has exposed its own population to nuclear and bioweapon tests.
Also Im not sure someone that has killed brown people all over the middle east would have much of a problem killing a few Americans "for his country" if it was framed that way.
Murderous scum are murderous scum.

Arthur Boucher
- 02/28/2013 at 03:10

me neither,if a person can't see a truth that's waving it's arms and screaming right in front of them , i'm disgusted by total ignorance. the terrorist are clearly not foreign.

Richard
- 02/22/2013 at 17:11

Great post...you name names, events...There was a conspiracy...elements of our government are not as safe as we would like to think they are...Good Job!

They sure did name names. A lot of names. Someone knew someone else, is distantly related to that other guy, worked for a company that is subsidiary of another company, was in the military with this other fella...and they all are involved in this massive plot.

There are inconsistencies with every story ever told. If you want every T crossed and every I dotted before you believe the official version, it will never happen. I don't blame you for not liking the American government, but if you accuse them of such a heinous act, you must have more than anomalies and the vague "follow the money" tale this video tells. Just a lot of events and people with tenuous links that only make sense if you don't require the physical evidence to show their relationships to prove their involvement in the 9/11 tragedy. Superficial at best, and wouldn't last an hour in a legitimate court of law.

Charles Bernard
- 02/23/2013 at 17:42

Then why should they wish to destroy the evidence of the felony so quickly and ship it off to China? An illegal act in and of itself.

Jack1952
- 02/24/2013 at 00:47

They didn't destroy evidence. They cleared the site and sold the steel to Chinese interests. North American scrap steel was of better quality than the Chinese top grade steel. I was working in the scrap business at the time and Chinese reps were visiting scrap yards all over North America looking to buy all the steel they could. The steel of the WTC would have been a windfall for the Chinese.

Google "high rise demolition videos". You will see that seconds before each demolition there are a series of explosions to weaken the support structures. Then the building collapses. There are no series of co-coordinated explosions before the collapse of any of the world trade centre buildings. This is inconsistent with the idea of planned demolitions. The authorities knew why the buildings went down. There was no need to investigate and therefore no evidence. The idea that it was a planned demolition did not become a part of the lexicon till a few years later, especially after the release of the movie "Loose Change".

princeton
- 02/24/2013 at 20:46

lol... its scary how some of you buy every line you're fed by "officials".. haha.. FACT! the world is full of conspiracies.. even delivery drivers "conspire" against each other to earn more money. Businesses constantly conspire to wreck the competition. But I'm to believe individuals who control entire industries, armies and billions of dollars of tax payer money could never possibly conspire to do something like this...

it should be obvious that when that much wealth and power is involved under any circumstances, .. the whole mess is full of conspiracies.. basic human instinct for survival and dominance are all that's needed to fuel that fire.

Only a child would trust all that is told to him by these individuals and organizations who have all the reason in the world to lie to you and have proven themselves as liars who are willing to kill to get their way over and over again..

its too creepy how y'all just eat it up without even a flinch. This is why history repeats itself.

Jack1952
- 02/24/2013 at 23:18

People are corrupt and not to be trusted and conspire to do bad things all the time. Therefore, members of the American government are guilty of conspiring to hijack planes and fly them into buildings and cannot be denied. It has a back door logic to it, I guess.

Try this. Russell Williams, Robert Pickton, and Paul Bernardo are serial rapists and killers. They are also Canadian. I am also Canadian. Therefore, I must be a serial rapist and killer. Illogical? Of course. Just as illogical as your argument. Guilt is proven through the facts of the incident at hand. Past misdeeds and the idea that someone is capable of a heinous act does not prove guilt. It is the fodder of gossip and innuendo and irrelevant.

ericthefool
- 02/28/2013 at 07:40

Dude, you are sticking up for this country's criminal cabbal at every chance you can get. I know, you know, that our Gov't isn't all hunky dorry. Why would you deny everything....you make no real sense and have no argument when you constantly deny anything evil this Country does or has done.

Jack1952
- 02/28/2013 at 08:06

I am not sticking up for it and have only referred to 9/11. I am saying that there is no solid evidence that it was complicit for the 9/11 tragedy. I am appalled at the invasion of Iraq, was dead set against the Vietnam war, disgusted by American policy in Central America, disagree with the Patriot Act and much more. With each one of these items, I arrived at my conclusions based on the merits of that specific case. One has nothing to do with the other.

batvette
- 03/03/2013 at 19:32

You're merely giving evidence your position was arrived at entirely by ideology- one of extreme, paranoid distrust of government.

There are plenty of dishonest corrupt people in government- as well as corporations, AND the truth movement. The idea that so many could conspire with a common goal is absurd, and if they were so universally, completely evil and corrupt it's unimaginable to me that a number of them would not have by now come forward and sold the others out for their own personal gain.

"Only a child would trust all that is told to him by these individuals and organizations"

And who would that be? Typical truther BS, Like calling people "sheeple" because unlike you they do not mistake their own ignorance for enlightenment. I don't trust everything the government tells me, but I'm certainly not so irrationally paranoid I could be a truther.

The theme is a universal arrogance and contempt for anyone who disagrees with you- you know more, you did the research, you're in on the inside track, you have the courage to confront evil and all of us sheeple don't want real justice because we are scared of having our world view challenged. Or we're simply morally corrupt and lack your high values- all else failing we're paid by the conspirators. Did I miss anything?

I believe the DSM-IV-TR has many of these qualities listed as symptomatic of Persecutory or Paranoid Delusions.

But of course people in positions of power COULD do this, but why are you discounting that 19 Muslims, angry at US Iraq policy which killed a half million Muslims and humiliated them by defending their land for them as if they were women, deluded this would please their God, might do this as well for equally or more compelling reasons?

We have EVIDENCE they did it. You have none for your beliefs.

Richard Chase
- 02/25/2013 at 01:37

You mention "Loose Change." Apparently you didn't watch it.

a_no_n
- 02/25/2013 at 13:18

the video of tower 7 collapsing, is actually 15 seconds longer than loose change would have you believe...That's because in the missing fifteen seconds you see the penthouse of tower 7 falling into the rest of the building long before the building itself falls...the makers of loose change knew this means that no explosives could have been used in tower 7, and that's why they didn't show it. Because loose change is Making money from you! It doesn't care about informing you any more than Michael Bay does!

ericthefool
- 02/28/2013 at 07:37

Yeah!!!

That free movie on the internet, totally took all my money!!!!

Jack1952
- 02/28/2013 at 07:58

I use Linux operating system for my computer. It is absolutely free yet Linux is doing quite well financially. Hasn't cost me a cent. How is it possible?

a_no_n
- 02/28/2013 at 14:21

Alex jones, the producer of Loose change, makes $5million a year from telling us all "the truth" about the government conspiracies.
Meanwhile Bradley Manning, The guy who gave Assange the Wikileak files is rotting in solitary confinement and could never see daylight again.

When you see what the US government does to people who do try telling the world their secrets, you realize that people like Alex Jones and his cronies are all just selling fiction.

Jonny
- 03/04/2013 at 21:05

I would like to see this original footage you speak of, because, as with the twin towers, the collapse of it seemed quite a lot like a controlled demolition (didn't it?) I'd like to see ANY video of another building falling in on itself in such a tidy fashion. Please share, thanks

Jack1952
- 02/26/2013 at 00:15

I did watch "Loose Change" and if that is all that I had watched, then I might believe in the insider theory. However, I didn't stop there. I investigated every allegation made, watched and read evaluations from every angle and persuasion. The totality of the evidence presented was what brought me to the conclusion that I arrived at. One movie is not enough...not even close to enough.

ericthefool
- 02/28/2013 at 07:36

Gulf of Tonkin didn't happen!!!!

We do not torture!!!!!
Iran/Contra didn't happen!!!!!
The CIA does not traffic drugs!!!!!!

Jack1952
- 02/28/2013 at 07:51

What does that have to do with this discussion? If you are found guilty of one felony in your past that does not imply guilt in any subsequent crimes. Proof is what defines guilt...not past transgressions.

ericthefool
- 02/28/2013 at 07:55

Because you act as though nothing wrong has ever been done by this "Gov't" before. You act as though large scale conspiracies can not take place. I just proved you wrong.

batvette
- 03/03/2013 at 19:13

you seem to believe that mere employment by government includes all individuals within as multigenerational participants in conspiracy.

ZarathustraSpeaks
- 02/22/2013 at 16:51

The simple boring truth about many of the problems in this country and almost all countries is that "evil on a grand scale" is not necessary to explain how we got where we are. Most of the worlds population can be broken down into two "groups". The beneficiaries of economic wealth creation that eventually lead to naval staring apathy and isolation versus those who have not had the luxury of discovering that the economic gains they covet will eventually transform them into those they either envy or despise now. Neither of these "conditions" will ever be an "end in themselves" Conspiracy theories by frustrated writers that use all capital letters to SCREAM at someone that they are right and someone else is wrong is just another attempt to create value in their own lives. We as "semi-intelligent" humans are all caught in the same dilemma of trying to prove a purpose for our existence no matter the country we are from, the parents or guardians we have or any of the other myriad of ways we try to seperate ourselves from our inescapable humanity. Yes I am doing the same thing myself but I do recognize we will have to get beyond the "evil" them versus us to learn anything of significance if thats even possible. Blaming everything on the "evildoers" is just buying into the same rhetoric from "W" Bush that you are blaming for 9/11.

This is ridiculous,I thought by now the so called "truthers" had moved on to the next conspiracy theory. They are just like the "birthers", obsessed. I wonder how many times the word "sheeple" will appear in this thread. That is the standard defense for conspiracy folks when you don't buy their conspiracy theory, they call you a sheeple and go on and on about how blindly obedient and brain washed you are. Never mind that you may have spent your entire life questioning power, scrutinizing what the powers that be have to sell, making sure you never drink the kool-aid- if you don't believe 9/11 was an inside job you are brain washed, according to the so called "truthers".

I dunno, I mostly hear "did you look at the evidence?" And in this case, many strange things have been pointed out. It now seems to me that there is a very good chance 9/11 was a sort of inside job. This level of density of coincidences would really just be absurd. And people, or "sheeple" will really believe anything so long as others around them do. How else would so many religions, all having no evidence, be believed with such fierceness? Only the 'sheeple factor' and a few ideas about the psychology of coping explain that. Why not 'sheep-like' behavior with politics and history as well? The average person has not weighed this evidence, an impossibility really, because there is so much to consider, so why assume that their default view is rational or correct? I think you speak around this video as opposed to looking at it. The video is pretty strong and there are other avenues of inquiry that are also strong, for instance by simply considering the physics of the day.

a_no_n
- 02/25/2013 at 13:15

so other than people are sheeple...what evidence do you actually have?

pwndecaf
- 02/26/2013 at 01:09

If you actually have an argument, why don't you offer it instead of childishly calling names. Yours are the weakest on the forum. You offer nothing.

a_no_n
- 02/26/2013 at 17:28

ironicly i didn't actually call any names in that comment...i was responding to a comment that itself consisted of nothing but childish name calling...so your post doesn't really make sense...was that reply even meant for me?
It would appear you were so frantic to try and attach bad labels to me that you didn't pause to make sure your post actually made sense...want to try again?

pwndecaf
- 02/27/2013 at 02:00

I think it applies to most of your comments so I'll let it stand.

a_no_n
- 02/27/2013 at 04:47

So your going to ignore the fact that it doesn't make sense, and you're going to let it stand...I'm not suprised really, you don't seem like the type to let the truth get in the way of a good old fashioned opinion.

pwndecaf
- 02/28/2013 at 03:15

I said it applies. How does that not make sense? Rhetorical questions don't require answers.

ericthefool
- 02/28/2013 at 07:35

You say "BAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!"

JACK OLIVER
- 02/11/2014 at 14:14

I believe my eyes

a_no_n
- 02/11/2014 at 15:38

unfortunatly eyes and memories are terrible sources of information, they tend to be unaccurate, and warp over time.

susan g
- 02/12/2014 at 16:51

a_no-n is correct. There is a well known experiment that was done during a law school class, where a person pretending to be a robber comes into the classroom runs up to the professor and steals her purse and runs out.

The professor goes around the class and asks each student to give a description of the robber, what he looked like , what he was wearing. No one got it completely right. They all saw and remembered something different.

This little exercise that the professor did was to show how unreliable an eye witness in a court of law can be.

I'll take science (DNA, video, fingerprints) over something that is so open to differing interpretation any day of the week.

Bob Brannigan
- 02/22/2013 at 18:04

Well Wald0, your little rant threw off a lot of heat but not much light. You start with a blanket statement of "Ridiculous" and then rail against conspiracy theorists, but you don't address any actual issues.

Regardless of what happened on 9/11, there was a conspiracy. The official report was deeply flawed, even admitted by some in the committee as a whitewash. It failed to answer, and often outright avoided some basic and important questions. Facts were ignored and evidence was discarded or denied. This raises not just a few questions but literally hundreds.

You could chalk this up to the desire to avoid embarrassment regarding incompetence at many levels, but the investigation was so meager as to be laughable. Ordinary plane crashes are painstakingly investigated at great expense, as are structural failures, yet in this case the story was written before the work began,including explanations that defied the laws of physics.

You reject the idea of a conspiracy but you don't say why. If the concept, in your mind, is simply unthinkable, then the unanswered questions, ignored facts and glaring inconsistencies are irrelevant. Case closed.

Pysmythe
- 02/22/2013 at 18:35

I've seen him address those issues before, quite some time ago, with facts that were devastating for the conspiracy theorists who were attempting to hound him and shout him down about it.
I don't think he wants to be bothered with it much, anymore.
Neither do I.

Bob Brannigan
- 02/22/2013 at 18:57

The fact that both of you are here, and commenting, belies that assertion.

Dean Edgington
- 02/22/2013 at 20:37

I can’t be much bothered with it these days either...the "truthers" have failed to convince me. Even Steven Jones and his thermite theory hasn’t impressed me. I have no reason to believe the official version of events, I despised the Bush admin and his band of "crazies" but I can’t buy the “truthers” theories based on (to my mind) a lack of real evidence.

When it come to corruption and the abuse of power, I think conspiracy theorists are pointing their accusing fingers in roughly the right directions (barr a few omissions) but after those broad stroke they present details that often go a bit nutty.

Sean John
- 02/23/2013 at 19:24

so you don't think it wasn an inside job ?

a_no_n
- 02/25/2013 at 13:13

i think the people inside were too incompetent to be able to pull something like that off! And also there's NO evidence

pwndecaf
- 02/26/2013 at 01:07

Again, how competent does one have to be to do nothing? You are not arguing against what is being said. You've made up your own mind what others "actually" said and go from there.

A conspiracy doesn't need Bush or Cheney. It only means more than one person planned something. It doesn't even have to involve being in charge of the planes. Not acting against known threats is a valid charge to be investigated. Conspiracy - A secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.

a_no_n
- 02/26/2013 at 17:19

It also needs evidence...something that is sorely lacking in your story.
a group of extremist Muslims conspired to hijack airplanes and fly them into public buildings across America...is that not conspiracy enough?
What is it exactly that makes you think that's not what happened?

pwndecaf
- 02/27/2013 at 01:58

So you say. That is evidence that there was no cover-up or complicity? I need to take your word for it because...?

Dean Edgington
- 05/21/2013 at 08:47

I'm pretty sure it wasnt. You may be pretty sure it was. I read the facts differently to you. Need we say more?

a_no_n
- 02/25/2013 at 13:12

At the end of the day, the Truther theory revolves around George W Bush and Dick Cheney being the smartest and most subtle men in the country...So you can see instantly why that theory doesn't stand up on it's own legs!

Dean Edgington
- 05/21/2013 at 08:30

good point

Pysmythe
- 02/22/2013 at 20:41

Lol, you aren't on this site much, are you?

Jack1952
- 02/22/2013 at 19:56

They sure did name names. A lot of names. Someone knew someone else, is distantly related to that other guy, worked for a company that is subsidiary of another company, was in the military with this other fella...and they all are involved in this massive plot.

There are inconsistencies with every story ever told. If you want every T crossed and every I dotted before you believe the official version, it will never happen. I don't blame you for not liking the American government, but if you accuse them of such a heinous act, you must have more than anomalies and the vague "follow the money" tale this video tells. Just a lot of events and people with tenuous links that only make sense if you don't require the physical evidence to show their relationships prove their involvement in the 9/11 tragedy. Superficial at best, and wouldn't last an hour in a legitimate court of law.

pwndecaf
- 02/23/2013 at 01:55

I wish it would have received an hour in court. We might have learned something.

Jack1952
- 02/24/2013 at 19:45

There was a trial, of sorts. Zacarias Moussaoui was charged and found guilty for his role in the attacks. His trial lasted four years and he is now serving a life sentence. One thing of interest to some of the posters on this thread is that the voice recorder for flight 93 was played in the court as part of the trial.

At no time was there any suggestion by Moussaoui that there were members of the American government involved. In an exchange with the presiding judge Moussaoui stated, "God curse America. God save Osama bin Laden - you will never get him". He was facing a death sentence yet he never once spoke of an inside job.

pwndecaf
- 02/24/2013 at 20:32

All the government had to do to be complicit as far as flights were concerned was let it happen, which seems about the way it did happen.

Jack1952
- 02/24/2013 at 21:43

It's sometimes easy to confuse complicity with incompetence. Dealing with a government agency is quite an exercise of frustration and futility. Many times they seem more concerned with their own special interests and protecting their cushy jobs. Everything else takes a back seat. I would say the vast majority of us has had an experience with bureaucratic logic and left wondering how these people can function with what appears to be a limited intelligence. That these terrorists could literally fly in under the radar is not that surprising to me. It is amazing what people can do with careful planning and a little bit of luck. The appearance of complicity does not actually indicate the reality of it.

pwndecaf
- 02/25/2013 at 02:55

You have to consider how the air space of the Pentagon was compromised in such an unprecedented manner. Outrageously inept. That doesn't really sound like SOP which the military practices and carries out always without fail. How did so much go wrong on that day? Just lucky you say - I guess. Similar to the ineptitude of JFK's protectors in Dallas.

I don't think it matters what anyone believes happened - it needs more scrutiny, and someday, we will get it in some measure, IMO.

Jack1952
- 02/27/2013 at 20:35

Mathias Rust, in May 28, 1987, flew his Cessna from Finland and landed in Red Square next to the Kremlin. He was even tracked but was thought to be a friendly aircraft. Soviet air-defence systems were thought to be impregnable and many Soviet officials were dismissed including some of the very top brass of Soviet military. Rust was only eighteen at the time and an inexperienced pilot. A jet, flying at over five hundred miles an hour, covers a lot of ground quickly and can be on top of you before you can react. With the confusion of that day, it was difficult for officials to know what report was accurate and what was rumour. It isn't impossible.

ericthefool
- 02/28/2013 at 07:32

1987 Soviet Union comparison.....

Jack1952
- 02/28/2013 at 07:48

Yes and it demonstrates how what some say is absolutely impossible is not only possible but has been done.

ericthefool
- 02/28/2013 at 07:52

So when the "truthers" show one way...its wrong...but your one way is right? I don't understand your logic....

Jack1952
- 02/28/2013 at 08:26

Its not just my way. The claim is that in five minutes the plane would be intercepted and I showed a time when it wasn't. Therefore, the five minute claim cannot be used as proof of guilt. The claim only works if the five minute window is an absolute and cannot be broken...ever. It's not.

ericthefool
- 02/28/2013 at 07:31

Yes, cause any other plane flying off course would be intercepted in less then 5 mins, while these planes fly around for how long again?

Jack1952
- 02/28/2013 at 07:46

October the 22, 2009, Northwest Airlines flight flew one hundred and fifty miles past the airport in Minneapolis . They had not been in contact with the airport for over an hour. It was being tracked on radar and their position was known. It was not shot down or intercepted. That is much longer than your five minute window.

ericthefool
- 02/28/2013 at 07:49

I can find one instance too to prove everything I say is true.

NORAD says at about 1:30 p.m. on Saturday a Cessna 441 twin engine
aircraft remained out of communication with air controllers. At that
time, the fighters quickly took off from Homestead AFB to intercept the
aircraft. The Cessna pilot re-established communication with air control
and was able to continue flying, NORAD said.

Jack1952
- 02/28/2013 at 07:56

That makes us even. My example shows that it doesn't always happen. I never said that it couldn't happen. The claim is that a plane would be intercepted in five minutes. I showed you an instance in which it didn't happen that way. It's a fact. Look it up. It was big news at the time.

pwndecaf
- 02/25/2013 at 03:19

Moussaoui was arrested in August - before September 11, 2001. Isn't that odd that they couldn't buy a clue what might happen despite the fact that he had asked for training in flying a jumbo jet, specifically flying and not take offs and landings?

He was arrested for that very reason, and yet 9/11 happened. Strange indeed.

ericthefool
- 02/28/2013 at 07:30

4 years to try one dude, but they shut the case on 9/11 in less then 6 months.

Can you believe Bush Sr. was involved in the Iran/Contra affair....nah, that didn't happen either.

a_no_n
- 02/25/2013 at 13:08

yeah...how long the punishment is for wasting a courts time

pwndecaf
- 02/26/2013 at 01:15

Nothing to offer again, I see. You are consistent.

a_no_n
- 02/26/2013 at 17:19

It's a pity you aren't...If you scroll down a bit further you'll see i've actually said quite a bit, and i've posted sources to verify what i've said, which is more than any of you truthers have done.

pwndecaf
- 02/27/2013 at 01:56

Yeah, loved your bit about engineers not knowing how a building's structure works and you need a physicist to tell you. That was good.

Richard A. Tucker
- 02/23/2013 at 02:35

Jack, where does this say the American government did it? To say there aren't covert operations and government people involved would be naive but to claim the whole government was involved has never been said or even suggested. Thanks for playing but but seriously, you must have some of us confused with your lacking imagination and very narrow mindset. I worked for the government and my wife IS working for the government. Are you suggesting that as such we believe we were involved? Go and think before you write.

Jack1952
- 02/24/2013 at 00:20

The people mentioned are the upper echelons of the American government. Top management does not consult with the rank and file when making company policy. Neither does the government. To suggest that these top people would consult with everyone that works for them about their plans is ridiculous. They were operating in a covert operation, if indeed they are guilty.

Dean Edgington
- 02/22/2013 at 20:23

I think wald0 (correct me if Im wrong wald0) addressed the issue of why "truthers" are often plain wrong and disingenuous. They regularly display faulty logic and reasoning and doggedly hold on to ideas that have been called into question if not completely debunked. These are important facts to point out IMO.

Jack1952
- 02/24/2013 at 00:27

Ordinary plane crashes are painstakingly investigated to find out what went wrong. They know what went wrong here. Hi-jackers intentionally flew these planes into buildings. Ordinary plane crashes happen unintentionally and those in the industry want to know how it happened so won't happen again. Poring over the wreckage won't prevent hijackings. It would have been pointless. I do not see how any laws of physics were broken.

Bob Brannigan
- 02/24/2013 at 06:38

For the sake of brevity, I was using the extensive investigation of a plane crash partly as a metaphor. As you said, there would have been slight value to in attempting to sort out the twin towers crashes, but even so, something could have been gained by a full study of the Pentagon and Shanksville events. As for physics; steel temperature and performance, collapse rates, debris fields, damage patterns etc., do not pass the smell test.

I won't belabour these points as I'm sure you've heard them all. We may not see eye to eye on some or even most, but in some ways it's all moot. None of these issues were addressed in any comprehensive way in the official report, and the investigation was totally out of proportion to the event.

For example, when there is an auto fatality in my country, an accident investigation team is assigned and a thorough review is performed, even when substantial eyewitness information is available and the event sequence is clear, even to a casual observer. This becomes part of the public record. An investigator who said, "well it's obvious, let's go for coffee" would have a very short career indeed.

I would have expected an event the size of 9/11 would result in an investigation where no stone was left unturned, but this was not done, providing few solid answers but ample fuel for rampant speculation, some of it quite nutty. I have taken considerable time to research the events and I am left with some serious nagging questions which I think are quite valid and are shared by people I don't put in the "tin foil hat" category.

Of course, I could be wrong or misinformed, but a professional investigation would have raised the same questions and looked for answers. Instead, the original narrative was retained and emphasized, apparently very willfully. Why this was so is perhaps the biggest question of all.

Jack1952
- 02/24/2013 at 19:54

Over 1500 fragments of body parts were found in the aftermath of flight 93. Most were to small to be identifiable as anything but blood, tissue or bone fragments. Coroner Wally Miller said the largest part he saw was a piece of backbone. Yet they managed to identify all victims on this flight. They also recovered the cockpit voice recorder which was played in the trial of Zacarius Moussaoui. 185 of the 189 who died at the Pentagon were identified using DNA from the bodies found on the site. The rest were identified by process of elimination. It would appear that there was a greater and more detailed investigation than many would believe. It would have been a painstaking task to gather all the tiny body parts of flight 93.