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Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

I said, "Yes, before Christianity stealing, rape and murder were not only legal but common. In fact it took either conversion or puppet governments lead by and only by Christians to stop it."

Those things were not legal in ancient Israel/Judea. As per Old Testament Law. If a someone killed someon on accident, he could flee to a "Sanctuary City" and stand trial. If found guilty of manslaughter, he was then forced to remain in the 'Santuary City' (where he is technically safe from retribution) until the death of the current High Priest. This punishment (of being forced to stay there) was the punishment for manslaughter. This taught the people that even though it was not murder, people must learn to respect life and pay a price for taking one even on accident.

Look what happened to Cain when he murdered Abel. Look what happened to people who raped. Look what happened to people who stole (especially from God, regarding war spoils to be sacrificed).

Now, that stuff is from the Bible, but if you're Christian then the OT is word of God and thus true.

Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

Originally Posted by Cephus

Then feel free to start a thread in the appropriate sub-forum, I'm sure lots of people would be happy to point out how ludicrous Rand's ideas are. Then again, you're a libertarian so you probably wouldn't get it.

Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

Originally Posted by jet57

She represents free trade and a laissez-faire capitalist reality. She was about the selfishness of the indvidual: kind of like plants, they grow according to their abilities to receive sun and water over others; that's how they dominate. Of course what she fails to mention is that a forest becomes a forest through the efforts of metaphysical collectivism: human beings are naturally collectists, that's how we survive. Therefore one man cannot do it without walking on the backs of others.
The concept of this very country was to build a system wherein walking on the backs of others was all but outlawed.

As I said earlier, Ayn Rand has no more a handle on utopia than Walt Disney.

Speaking of personified animal stories, she's the Little Piggy Who Went to Market.

On the outside, trickling down on the insiders.
We won't live free until the 1% live in fear.
Hey, richboys! Imagine the boot of democracy stomping on your faces, forever.

Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

I've noticed lately that debating the Bible with some Christians doesn't work any better.

The Bible never says to not eat meat!!11!!

"It is best not to eat meat" Romans 14:21.

That doesn't count!!

I like you dude. But you have to understand that people who are ignorant and subservient to religion will not see that there are inconsistencies in it. The best example I have for Christians about the illogical/unanswered nature of their religion is simply:

Adam and Eve were the first humans created by God. They had Cain and Abel. When Cain and Abel got older, they got married. TO WHOM!?!?!?!?!?!

Peace is a lie. There is only Passion. Through Passion I gain Strength. Through Strength I gain Power. Through Power I gain Victory. Through Victory my chains are Broken. The Force shall free me.

Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

Originally Posted by Hatuey

I like you dude. But you have to understand that people who are ignorant and subservient to religion will not see that there are inconsistencies in it. The best example I have for Christians about the illogical/unanswered nature of their religion is simply:

Adam and Eve were the first humans created by God. They had Cain and Abel. When Cain and Abel got older, they got married. TO WHOM!?!?!?!?!?!

IIRC, Cain married a daughter of Seth (another child of Adam and Eve). Abel was killed by Cain before he was married (iirc). Then I have to wonder how Seth got a daughter. I'd have to research it a bit.

Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

I for one can't wait to hear how the Old Testament, the Code of Ur-Nammu and the Code of Hammurabi don't count.

Code of Hammurabi

1. If any one ensnare another, putting a ban upon him, but he can not prove it, then he that ensnared him shall be put to death.

2. If any one bring an accusation against a man, and the accused go to the river and leap into the river, if he sink in the river his accuser shall take possession of his house. But if the river prove that the accused is not guilty, and he escape unhurt, then he who had brought the accusation shall be put to death, while he who leaped into the river shall take possession of the house that had belonged to his accuser.

3. If any one bring an accusation of any crime before the elders, and does not prove what he has charged, he shall, if it be a capital offense charged, be put to death.

4. If he satisfy the elders to impose a fine of grain or money, he shall receive the fine that the action produces.

5. If a judge try a case, reach a decision, and present his judgment in writing; if later error shall appear in his decision, and it be through his own fault, then he shall pay twelve times the fine set by him in the case, and he shall be publicly removed from the judge's bench, and never again shall he sit there to render judgement.

6. If any one steal the property of a temple or of the court, he shall be put to death, and also the one who receives the stolen thing from him shall be put to death.

7. If any one buy from the son or the slave of another man, without witnesses or a contract, silver or gold, a male or female slave, an ox or a sheep, an ass or anything, or if he take it in charge, he is considered a thief and shall be put to death.

8. If any one steal cattle or sheep, or an ass, or a pig or a goat, if it belong to a god or to the court, the thief shall pay thirtyfold therefor; if they belonged to a freed man of the king he shall pay tenfold; if the thief has nothing with which to pay he shall be put to death.

9. If any one lose an article, and find it in the possession of another: if the person in whose possession the thing is found say "A merchant sold it to me, I paid for it before witnesses," and if the owner of the thing say, "I will bring witnesses who know my property," then shall the purchaser bring the merchant who sold it to him, and the witnesses before whom he bought it, and the owner shall bring witnesses who can identify his property. The judge shall examine their testimony--both of the witnesses before whom the price was paid, and of the witnesses who identify the lost article on oath. The merchant is then proved to be a thief and shall be put to death. The owner of the lost article receives his property, and he who bought it receives the money he paid from the estate of the merchant.

10. If the purchaser does not bring the merchant and the witnesses before whom he bought the article, but its owner bring witnesses who identify it, then the buyer is the thief and shall be put to death, and the owner receives the lost article.

Christianity

Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

“Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

"Hence, whoever knows well this art of distinguishing between Law and Gospel, him place at the head and call him a doctor of Holy Scripture." Martin Luther.

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before Christianity stealing, rape and murder were not only legal but common.