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LiveLooper Enhancements

I've been using the Livelooper a lot recently working with a Beatboxer and I've discovered a feature I would like, I thought I may share it with you all. Apologies if you can already do this.

I tend to use the LiveLooper in manual trigger mode so I can record loops on the fly whenever I want them; once the looper channel are all used up, or if you just want to free up more channels - it would be brilliant if there was a 'Bounce-all-to-One' button somewhere on the interface which would take all the active loops and buss them down to one armed or designated channel on the LiveLooper - then you could start the whole looping business over again without having go through a time consuming process of clearing any redundant loops.

Any thoughts? Easy or hard to implement for 2.1?

Stereo In/Out and Bounce-all-to-One would be great improvements I think - I had thought of individual volume pots on each channel - but routing them to a desired type of mixer is overall more flexible I think.

Great to hear about your use of the LiveLooper Matt -- I don't get much feedback about it and it was a lot of work to implement.

Loop bouncing might be a good feature although I can imagine all kinds of complexities if the loops aren't the same length (the smallest common multiple can get pretty large). I'm wondering if I could solve your problem in some other way -- i'm also wondering how many less clicks it would be to clear redundant loops versus selecting which loops to bounce.

I'm happy to take suggestions but there's no chance of this kind of, what i would call "significant-enhancement" happening for 2.1. I've already got my hands full with the existing tasks on the roadmap.

I've done a modest amount of audio programming (VSTs and a wave player with Port Audio) and I didn't imagine my request would be simple. C'est la vie!

To be honest if you think it has the legs to be a new Contraption, I think it would work just as well with half the amount of loops: 8 is usually more than enough as I rarely seem to get past 4 or 5 without having to bounce them all.

I tend to use the first loop as a template if you like; which is a silent loop 1 bar in length - then I can (clock) sync everything to that loop, usually with 0.25 set as the decimal fraction.

The LiveSlice plugin I used to use for similar purposes (until I got fed up with the long waits for updates and the MIDI learn restrictions) which had an interesting feature in the record section: whereby you set the musical duration (in bars) to record for - then you triggered the recording. This is in opposition to the user defined punch in/out points of the LiveLooper However I find the LiveLooper much more flexible for on the fly recording – as it can do both standard musical and more contemporary measures.

In my programming-Layman's terms, the Contraption (BounceLooper?) could have the following (thinking very much off the top of my head):

Bounce-Loop: A loop slot, which the user can set a predefined length for the bounce. It could have a sensible limit (say 8 bars for example). This would then limit the length of a single recording to 8 bars. I guess it could be thought of as a 'Capture' feature – 'capture what's happening in the BounceLooper for x bars please' button.

Loops: 8 available slots for recordings – not all required to be filled for a bounce.

Recording: the Canon and LiveLooper work really well in their recording facility so I don't see any real need to change this.

Bouncing: I would kind of assume you could make a switch statement to reference a variable which checks whether a loop is playing or stopped/muted/empty - the loop slots which return a 'playing == true' are bounced together into the aforementioned Bounce-Loop, and the remaining loops are reset to a clear state ready to be filled again. Then it would be a case of figuring out the maths to multiply the various loop lengths in order to fill the Bounce-Loops length.

Re-Bounce: The next bounce could in theory need to mix the previously bounced material along with any new recorded loops.

I kind of see it as a way for a performer to keep resampling new material, effect it, and re-ingest it – this could lead to all sorts of re-sampling electro-acoustic goodness.

Too bad you didn't get much reply on the livelooper, I'm really digging it and would love to see some improvements in the future like stereo, or something like in ableton live where the 1st loop sets the tempo or so. Reverse, ect.

Let's do a big brainstorming about the livelooper !
I used to use it a lot, and I am planning to come back to it. Let's keep in touch.
I remember having sync problems when stoppinng a replaying the main clock. But many things can be improved. It's worth it since the livelooper could be the most important element of live performances, with AM only.

Another thing I'd like to see is an Auto-record function like a peak detector but only for the 1st loop. Meaning that whenever you start playing, it's records but you have to press a key or a midi pedal to start looping or go to the next loop. It could also start recording by watching for the 1 incoming midi note for example.

Yeah, the live looper is awesome Ross, i use it for my live stuff and beatboxing and all sorts.

If you want a 'bounce to one' function, for now, couldn't you use [i]another[/i] instance of LiveLooper that was receiving an output from the first livelooper? That would be my first port-of-call for something like that.

True you could, but if you kept on employing that line of thinking you could end up with massively overcomplicated and inefficient patches - with resource hungry Contraptions doing a simple task because it's the only way to currently do it in the software. This is not only in term of CPU/RAM resources etc. but for example the fact that the LiveLooper takes a lot of screen real estate to display it's properties panel.

I'd prefer to throw out an idea for an improvement or new Contraption than keep bodging a patch to just make it work. It appears Ross is serious about consistently developing Mulch in the near future, and I see adding to it's Contraption palette and making small improvements to existing Contraptions a crucial part of it's development.

I really think Mulch has an edge over similar type of modular software, mainly because nothing ever seems to be bodged or rushed - it's all thought through from many angles, and tends to get it right form the ground up. The caveat to this approach is that over time, rival software has a developed a stronger, more diverse list of tools available to the user - Mulch's hasn't really updated in a while - but is soon the be ;)

It's just the fundamental body of the Contraption. 8 loops/tracks, and the brace tries to signify the summing to the Bounce loop. The design mimics the LiveLooper so a familiar user could get to grips with it straight away. The volume controls allow the user to get a desired mix of the loops before the bounce.

[img]http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/308946/BounceLooper%20001.jpg[/img]

The record/bounce length selection needs to be thought out next - similar to the LiveLooper again? Also need to think what options could be in the Bounce Loop section - length settings of the loop?

I have thought about incorporating simple LP/HP filters into each loop for basic EQ to allow the user to create a more dynamic/timbral mix before summing. I would pop these above the Volume controls, as a simple crossfader-esque control: the far left to be full LP and far right to be full HP.

My only concern then is not to get the interface too cluttered and Contraption too resource intensive.

One method while not instant would be to set up a file recorder and have it to grab all 16 channels in one file then load it to play it back. You could wire a few file recorders before hand... The way AM handles temp files is kinda interesting so I think you actually keep using the same file recorder, loading that file into the file player and they would all sound different.

Just wanted to say that I agree with other folks who have suggested enhancements to the LiveLooper... My wish list would be:

1) Allow any loop to set or follow global tempo.
2) Stereo loops.
3) Allow multiple loopers to sync to each other, so you can get more than 16 synchronized loops.
4) Instead of using a single looper with 16 tracks, each looper instance could have only 1 stereo track and sync to the global clock. You'd use as many loopers as you need, and place them at any point in the signal path.