This is a discussion on Starting Bankroll?? within the online poker forums, in the Learning Poker section; I've only been playing for 2 months now and I want to be profitable. What do I need to monitor my progress in terms of

I've only been playing for 2 months now and I want to be profitable. What do I need to monitor my progress in terms of studying my hands, plays, etc. and what would be a good BR to begin with? When should I start worrying about my ROI and what EXACTLY does it mean and stand for? I've made mental mistakes so far and feel like I spent $200 worth of experience. Right now after 2 months my ROI is -32% and my average profit is -.60. I just float on a very small bankroll. Is it a major mistake to deposit only the minimum amount (25) if I truly want to profit? I put too much pressure on my game and tend to start playing too tight if I know I'll have to redeposit if I lose to play another game. I had a problem with being impatient and waiting for the right time to play as well. I have children and when I first began I'd play while they were awake and I split my attention and now I'm learning to be patient because of course I play better focused and I've had my first week of consistent low stakes tourney wins this week at night. I feel things starting to go uphill game wise and I want to be able to do it right this time as I have a new respect for the game.

If you need to ask, the notion of bankroll does not apply to you. Instead, you should budget how much money you are willing to spend per month on your poker hobby, how much you want to play, and then figure out the stakes you'll play from that.

#4

20th August 2012, 3:01 PM

blazinskighhy [10]

I don't want to lose money. and yes I play at sit n go's 6max. It's easier to figure out my opponents. I mess myself up every time I deposit the minimun b/c I play on tilt after just a few games. I'm only going to make one more deposit if I don't flip this I'm done and I don't know what I should start with. If you are profitable what deposit amount makes you feel comfortable?

I don't want to lose money. and yes I play at sit n go's 6max. It's easier to figure out my opponents.

Playing 6max SNGs is not about figuring out your opponents. It's primarily about proper ICM-based push-folding.

Until you understand the above sentence, bankroll management should not be a concern of yours.

#7

20th August 2012, 3:10 PM

blazinskighhy [10]

$1.50 double up. Most of the time they're good for me but sometimes ridiculous things happen which make me want to move up to stakes where the players are actually thinking and not shoving in their chips in preflop after my reraise with poc AA and flopping two pair.

#8

20th August 2012, 3:12 PM

blazinskighhy [10]

ok @belgosuisse how do you propose I actually make money rather than playing just as a hobby? I don't want to play for fun.

#9

20th August 2012, 3:19 PM

BlueNowhere [4,234]

Poker at: Pokerstars

Game: NLHE

If you get angry at people playing bad and it makes you want to play better players I'd suggest pokers not for you.

Google ICM push/folding. Try to understand what you read and post questions here if you don't.

Get the trial version of sngwiz and learn how to use it.

After you've done all of this, play some poker.

Also, note that Double or Nothing SNGs are a game format where collusion is highly profitable, and it's extremely difficult for the poker rooms to police it, so much so that Pokerstars has given up on the format after a huge chinese collusion ring scandal.

#11

20th August 2012, 3:25 PM

blazinskighhy [10]

I understand that things happen and 1.50 isn't a lot of money so it's not a major risk shoving your chips in with any hand as any 2 can do if the situation is right. It doesn't anger me, it just puts me on tilt and then I get confused and play horribly. I just put a range on the ppl I play with and most of the time it pulls through. It's just those sore losses when you think you have it from the get go and you invest everything in that one hand then it's all gone from the oh no. I laughed at the play and was proud of my decision, because the very same decision will help me win the next one, but still it sucks.

#12

20th August 2012, 3:25 PM

micromachine [5,618]

Online Poker at: Pokerstars

Game: Cash, MTTs

More money to be made in cash games than SNGs imo.

For normal SNGs recommended BRM is to have 50 buy-ins for the level you are playing. Not sure if this applies to DONs though.

It's definitely a terrible idea to try and play when you have family or life commitments preventing you from focusing. One of the reasons I play exclusively cash games rather than tourneys/SNGs is that you can sit out after any hand if you need to do something.

#13

20th August 2012, 3:33 PM

blazinskighhy [10]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BelgoSuisse

Google ICM push/folding. Try to understand what you read and post questions here if you don't.

Get the trial version of sngwiz and learn how to use it.

After you've done all of this, play some poker.

Also, note that Double or Nothing SNGs are a game format where collusion is highly profitable, and it's extremely difficult for the poker rooms to police it, so much so that Pokerstars has given up on the format after a huge chinese collusion ring scandal.

Ok, I have just read about collusion at sNg's DON's. Thank you for the info. I will test it out, do more research, and ask if I don't understand. One more deposit, that's it. I think I'll go $100 deposit after I finish my poker homework. I have never touched cards before last year, but somehow there are people out there who seem to be worse than I am and I've taken many $1.00s lol (yeah at the .02/.04) from what I call "call girls", trapping, switching up, etc. I don't think I'm horrible but alas, I don't know anyone who actually plays the game.

#14

20th August 2012, 3:36 PM

blazinskighhy [10]

Quote:

Originally Posted by micromachine

More money to be made in cash games than SNGs imo.

For normal SNGs recommended BRM is to have 50 buy-ins for the level you are playing. Not sure if this applies to DONs though.

It's definitely a terrible idea to try and play when you have family or life commitments preventing you from focusing. One of the reasons I play exclusively cash games rather than tourneys/SNGs is that you can sit out after any hand if you need to do something.

Yes. Terrible. SHAME ON ME!!! I can LOL at myself all day for this and maybe I would be in marginal profit. It has been proven to be better at night when my children are asleep, I had to buy $200 worth patience and lessons learned!!! My first tournament ever I finished 56 or 57 out of 500 and my confidence in my ability really went up and now I'm investing myself to learn the craft.

#15

20th August 2012, 3:41 PM

Big_Rudy [1,834]

Poker at: Carbon

Game: FR NLHE, STT

re: Poker & Starting Bankroll??

Quote:

Originally Posted by blazinskighhy

$1.50 double up. Most of the time they're good for me but sometimes ridiculous things happen which make me want to move up to stakes where the players are actually thinking and not shoving in their chips in preflop after my reraise with poc AA and flopping two pair.

This is a common error in thought for newer players. If you can't beat people who are bad and/or not thinking; you'll have little chance of beating those who do. Stay at the lowest levels until you can at least beat those games before trying to move up.

For SnGs the standard recommended bankroll is 50 buy-ins. I play SnGs almost exclusively any more though, and I like to have 100 BI for whatever level I'm playing. For DoNs you could get away with a lot less. But, really, until you make the transition to a winning player, the size of your bankroll won't matter since it'll just take you longer to go broke the bigger bankroll you have.

I agree with MM that there is probably more money to be made in cash games, but since I play mainly for recreation I play the format that I enjoy the most; which is SnGs.

Since it doesn't look like anyone has addressed it yet, ROI is Return on Investment, or how much profit/loss you can expect, on average, for every SnG you play.

A lot of people dislike DoNs, but I used to play them quite a bit. I wouldn't worry too much about collusion at the lowest levels. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I think it's more common at higher buy-in levels rather than the lower ones. Regardless, collusion or not, I think DoNs are a good place to start since the strategy for these is really pretty simple and you should be able to adopt a basic, winning strategy for these after just reading a short article or two on them from the internet.

#16

21st August 2012, 3:41 PM

Arjonius [3,167]

To be profitable requires only one thing - you have to be better than your opponents. Although this is patently obvious, there are always people asking what game and/or level to play - as if that were more important.

It's not, at least not at the recreational level. Play what ever form(s) of poker you enjoy, build enough game to be better than your opponents, and the result is basically inevitable. You will be profitable.

Once you are, and assuming the amounts of money are meaningful to you, then you can look at fine-tuning to optimize your win rate. Or not. It's fine, for example, to decide you prefer MTTs even though your win rate is higher in cash games and/or SNGs.

#17

31st August 2012, 5:19 AM

Cdub512 [1,383]

Game: HORSE

figure out what kind of poker game you are best at, and go from there. try to improve all the time in that game and learn from your mistakes. there will be losing and getting unlucky after going all in no matter what, all you can do is make the best decisions and play as well as you can.

#18

31st August 2012, 7:39 AM

MadMaddie [402]

Online Poker at: 888 Poker

Game: holdem

Good Luck blazinski.
I am just starting out myself and am investing $100. I am going to just play the multiple table Sit-n-goes because I think they are the most appealing to me (and some freerolls too)

Here's hoping we both have more money than we started with by the end of this next month

#19

31st August 2012, 8:55 AM

nitulbhatia [972]

Game: Holdem

Good luck to you and Madmaddie, hope it goes well for u, starting bankroll of any reasonable amount is ok, just play within your limits.