Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on September 21, 2017, I’m Paul Lathrop.

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we will talk with Marcus Allen about being wrongly prosecuted in Detroit.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about a Due Process Failure in Kentucky.

Amy: I’m Amy Dillon and we’ll also talk about a court case in Utah saying employees don’t have to take a bullet for the company.

Belle: I’m Belle McCormack and we’ll talk about a DGU from Washington State where a homeowner credits training for no shots being fired… so climb aboard

Amy: strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul: episode 423 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

Rob- Live fire training with a student. I recorded Tracy on Self-Defense Gun Stories. Carried every day.

I heard from Jeff and Robyn Street. They live in Naples Florida and went through the eye of hurricane Irma. They prepared well and did well. They have water and power, so they have air conditioning, but they don’t have phone or internet yet.

John- As regular listeners to the show know, my wife and I love to visit thrift stores and church bazaars. This weekend I picked up a tennis racquet carry bag with a shoulder strap which I intend to convert to a covert bag for either a folded stock rifle or my AR15 pistol. So for $1 plus some cheap foam I will have a carry bag that lets me go about my business without frightening the hoplophobes,

(Rob- Hey, Bugsy, don’t touch my lucky tennis racket.)

Amy – Recovering from recent hurricanes in the SouthEast! Scheduling my training classes for the upcoming 4th quarter, working on redesigning my website CCWstyle.com, and gearing up and training for the 3-Gun Nation Regionals in Virginia on Nov 10th. I’m excited to be headed to Dallas next week for the Gun Rights Policy Conference! I’m driving from South Carolina to attend!

Belle- Got the new 2018 schedule up on the website for FAS, very busy at t

Patches!! – If you are attending the upcoming Gun Rights Policy Conference in Dallas, we will have PSP patches available for purchase. Cost is $10 each. If you can’t make GRPC, you can still buy a patch by emailing john@politesocietypodcast.com. We accept PayPal or checks.

Should our friends bring their headsets?

Promo about upcoming training classes here.

Patches!!!

Break

2- News 1

Due Process Failure

When the Police State is running things you must be careful. We are not talking about being questioned at a train station in East Germany during the Cold War. We are talking about the treatment of American citizens by federal authorities. The case of Gerardo Serrano is a textbook example.

Mr. Serrano lives on a farm in Kentucky. He unsuccessfully ran for the US House in 2014 as a pro-Second Amendment candidate. He is licensed to carry and typically conceals his Sig Sauer .380 caliber pistol.

Mr. Serrano decided to drive to Mexico for a visit with his cousin in September 2015. Along the way, he took pictures with his phone to document his journey. Everything was going swimmingly until he reached the border crossing in Eagle Pass, Texas. He held his phone out the window and captured an image of the Customs Agents in the vicinity. The photo depicts the two agents holding their hands up in an apparent attempt to prevent him from taking their picture. The agents then directed Mr. Serrano to the side of the road and asked him to surrender his phone. He refused to comply.

The agents then opened the door to the new Ford F-250, unbuckled his seat belt and removed him from the truck. His phone was seized and the agents demanded his phone’s passcode. Again, Serrano refused to comply. His truck was searched and a loaded six round .380 magazine was found in the center console. He was detained for three hours and was told he was free to go. However, his truck was not free to go. Serrano then rented a car and drove back to his Kentucky home.

The authorities seized Mr. Serrano’s truck under federal asset forfeiture. The truck was considered a “conveyance of illegal exportation.” Of course, these types of findings are normally made once someone crosses into Mexico. It seems that the border agents don’t like to have their picture taken.

Mr. Serrano requested a trial to resolve this matter on September 7. His other options were to pay a ransom to the agency in the amount of $4,000 (10% of the value) or just let them have it. It will be interesting to see how this works out for Mr. Serrano.

John – As bad as this is, Mr Serrano just lost a truck. The SAF has filed an amicus brief in a case out of Florida where the District Ct said you can have either your 2nd rights or your 4th amendment rights but not both. A man answered the door at 1:30am with a handgun in his hand. He was shot and killed by the cops who knocked and then shot when he answered the door. They were seeking info on a motorcycle parked near his house.

Rob- John, I disagree, but I hope he hasn’t lost a truck, but I agree this is abusive prosecution, and the so called civil rights activists are silent..because the victim was a gun owner. Why is the Trump administration continuing the prosecution of this legal case?

Cleanup in Aisle 14

The Utah Supreme Court sided with a group of Wal-Mart workers who were fired for defending themselves when they were assaulted by an armed shoplifter. Six workers were fired after they fought with a shoplifter who pulled a gun on them inside the Layton Wal-Mart. The company had claimed the employees violated Wal-Mart’s policy of disengaging, withdrawing and alerting authorities. During a hearing, Utah Supreme Court Justice Christine Durham bluntly asked if an employer should be able to fire somebody “for refusing to take a bullet for the company?”

The court said, “Utah law reflects a policy favoring the right of self-defense. That public policy is an exception to the at-will employment, but only under the narrow circumstances where an employee cannot withdraw.”

In practical terms, this means the employees can sue Walmart for unfair termination.

Amy –

Rob-

Gun Quotes

People with armed security should not lecture the rest of us about gun control.

Source unknown.

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest (Marcus Weldon).

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3- Interview 1- Marcus Allen Weldon

You were arrested after a self defence incident. You were wearing a santa suit, so this was christmas of what year?

You were arrested and charged.

When did you get a not guilty verdict?

It cost you about how much to defend yourself?

And that was the end of it?

Are we sure that it is taken care of now?

What would you tell your 26 year old self?

Get insurance.

Practice closing your mouth until you talk to your lawyer.

4- Interview 2

Brian Hill-

Rob- We’re not violent. We don’t recognize violence until it is in our face.

Marty Hayes-

Rob-

5- DGUs (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

Training Training Training

A Marysville Washington homeowner credits his training for a no shots fired DGU.

Sunday night just after midnight, Joe Hemrich was awake and sitting in his living room when he heard a noise outside. He turned on his surveillance cameras but did not see anything. Not knowing what it was, he went to investigate. He found a man in his driveway under his carport. The area appeared to be ransacked and the man looked to be holding a baton or a stick.

Four feet away from the man was his child’s bedroom. Up until recently, the 70 degree temps meant that the bedroom windows were open at night.

Hemrich drew his weapon and ordered the man back. The man dropped this baton and backed up and even got down on the ground when ordered to do so.

The father of three held his stance in the doorway, holding the pistol he has owned and trained with for 12 years on the criminal with four warrants out for his arrest and happened to be on the lam.

“This is the first time in my life it has ever come out of the holster when I wasn’t at a range,” he said. “I train so I know exactly where it is, exactly how to pull it out, whether my finger is going on the trigger.”

He stated that the extensive training allowed him to focus on the subject in front of him and not on his gun.

“I carry a firearm to protect myself, my family, my community with the intentions of never having to use it,” he said.

The surveillance video was still rolling when it captured Hemrich walk the suspect at gunpoint to the front yard, ordering him to the ground and holding him until police arrived about five minutes after the altercation began.

Marysville police said he did everything right and most importantly, he complied with the officer’s commands when they arrived on the scene.

POGO once again is proven to work.

Amy- Great example of effective training

Rob-

Leave your Ex alone

Nothing good happens after midnight. And nothing good happens when you go to your ex-girlfriend’s home after midnight.

Christopher Carter showed up at his ex-girlfriend’s new boyfriend’s home just before 4 AM this last weekend. An argument erupted and shots were fired. Police said that Carter shot both his ex-girlfriend and her boyfriend. She was shot in the leg and he was shot in the arm.

The boyfriend went in the house, grabbed a pistol and shot Carter. Carter was pronounced dead at the scene.

The couple were treated and released at the local hospital.

The Athens Alabama police chief stated that they had reviewed the evidence and statements were taken. The investigation will continue for several weeks but they believe they have a case of self-defense. The case will be handed to the County district attorney and will probably go to grand jury.

John –

They always say he shouldn’t have been shot

In Laplace Louisiana last week Kalvin Ferrygood tried to break into a home. When the homeowner heard two voices in the back of his house, he went to the door to see what was happening. That was when Ferrygood forced his way into the home. The homeowner defended himself and opened fire.

Saint James Parrish Sheriff’s deputies found a gun in the backyard which they believe belonged to one of the two intruders. They also stated there is video evidence of what happened.

Ferrygood had just been released from jail four months ago after being arrested for shooting five people on Christmas Eve 2008 at a night club in the Parish.

Ferrygood’s family was defending him. They stated that the mojo had him running and that he wouldn’t break in or hurt anyone. As stated, the video shows differently. Mojo is a synthetic marijuana which has been known to cause erratic behavior and even cause death.

According to the Parish Sheriff’s office, the homeowner acted in self-defense and he was not arrested. They are working to identify the second subject.

Rob- Good job having a gun ready when you need it.

John – not meant for human consumption

Don’t Judge a Book by Its Cover

79 year-old James Noah and 77 year-old Barbara Melton were inside their apartment on a Saturday afternoon when there was a knock on the door. Melton answered the knock and two men shoved her aside and forced their way inside.

The two men started assaulting Noah with a blunt object. But, Noah was practicing POGO and was able to draw his handgun from his waistband and fired one shot. He hit his 26 year-old assailant in the head.

The second would-be robber fled the scene after his partner was shot. The first robber was alive with life-threatening injuries.

According to a neighbor, Noah was a vet and had training which kicked in during the encounter. Noah was recovering but had some bruising on his face. No criminal charges will be sought against him.

We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com Please take a minute and share them with a friend.

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6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

Listener e-mail discussion

Listener Kay writes in

Hello gang!

First off thank you for the wonderfully informative podcast! since I started listening roughly a year ago I have yet to miss an episode.

I just listened to your segment with Paul Martin on being prepared. As Paul spoke about having friends in the Salt Lake Valley who are prepared but do not consider themselves “preppers” it dawned on me that We who live in Utah are just that. I did not realize that it has become a way of life here. Now I, not being of the Mormon faith, but lived here almost all of my 40 years,pick up on these ideals because it is a way of life here. But the Idea of food storage here is not just for doom and gloom. As the Mormon church teaches, it is to be self sufficient, in case of loss of job, accident, etc. that may keep you from having funds to feed the family.

Our food storage consists of canned at home, re-fried beans, whole beans, rice, powdered milk, and wheat. very little is store bought “canned” items. We also have bottled (a lost art in some areas of the nation) mirepoix (onions, celery, carrots in chicken stock) for soups and the like, for each member of our family we have no less than a weeks worth of food on hand.

Due to the fact that we live in Southern Utah, which is high desert, we get a variance of weather. In the summer temps reach 110+ and in the winter can reach freezing during the night. we generally have on hand 2 gallons of water per individual per day for just as many weeks as food. Sounds like overkill to some but to us it is might be enough.This is just if we decide to barricade and ride out the problem. If we must bug out we have backpacks for each individual containing enough food water and first aid for three days. we also carry a field medical bag with surgical kit. To top it off, each family member has a primary and secondary firearm system with ammo to spare. As far as training is concerned, local meetings happen quite regularly for first aid, canning and bottling and general food storage.

In just our neighborhood alone there are a plethora of different skill sets among the neighbors and we all know each other well. With local parties and gatherings that are usually put on by the Mormon Church you get to know the people around you very well creating almost a band of families you can trust. As I write this we do sound a tad crazy but better to have it and not need, it than need it and not have it.

Rob- What a wonderful neighborhood.

Amy – Not crazy, very prepared! For example, when a natural disaster happens, grocery stores are emptied, and supplies are hard to find.

John – I worry about my daughters and their families. We preach that they need to have extra food. I may finally be getting through to one of my sil who is diabetic.

Rob- We recently found out that the election last november in New Hampshire was probably a fraud. New Hampshire has same day registration, and more than five thousand voters entered New Hampshire to cast their vote on election day, and then never became state residents. New Hampshire voted for Hillary by a margin of only 2700 votes. They elected a democrat senator with a margin of 1100 votes. Yep, that is the definition of fraud. Dr John Lott proposed a solution.

We already have a national instant background check system in place. Scores of judges already ruled that this particular background check does not infringe on any of our constitutional rights. This is the background check system we use when an honest citizen buys a firearm.

The background check wasn’t an infringement when I had to use it..or so I was told. Democrats also told us that the instant background check system is necessary to keep felons and illegals from buying guns, and to keep honest gun owners from buying more than one gun a month. We can use these background check systems today to keep illegals from voting and to keep US citizens from voting more than once.

Earlier this week, the Wisconsin Senate Judiciary and Public Safety Committee approved a bill that would bring constitutional carry to the Badger State. Given that they didn’t get any form of concealed carry until 2011, this is amazing. The chairman of the committee predicts it will pass both houses of the legislature. It is unclear whether Gov. Scott Walker will sign the bill as he has indicated he is happy with the current system. If you live in Wisconsin, you might want to give your governor a call on this. Now if the North Carolina Senate would get their act together on constitutional carry….

My recent articles have been published on gunware.net. This week I’ll be writing about competitive shooting. I will also be adding my articles bank to my website ccwstyle.com and linking them there in the future as well.

www.Patreon.com/politesocietypodcast

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. I’d like to thank (Guests) for joining us today. So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Jae, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Craig, and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)

Rob: Until the next time…

Amy stay safe,

Belle: be aware

John: and we’ll see you down the road.

(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?

(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam. For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else. Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Monday September 11th , I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we will talk with friend of the show and frequent guest Dr John Edeen about a doctor referral service.

Tracy: I‘m Tracy Thronburg , and We will discuss the US Virgin Islands wanting to confiscate guns.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our DGUs we talk POGO even at Taco Bell .. so climb aboard

Tracy: strap in

Rob : and hang on!

Paul: episode 422 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them), getting

Rob- I cut the walls out of a flooded house in Texas. I also got in some dry fire and life fire practice. I was going to interview Jeff and Robyn Street for my podcast, but they are busy dodging their own hurricanes. I was able to donate some money to Marcus Weldon.

Gary-

Tracy- I just got back from a Ladyseed class this past weekend down by San Antonio, at Tim Crosnoe’s home range. Tim was one of our instructors. A big word of thanks to Tim and Kristin Crosnoe for putting me up for three nights. I very much enjoyed their company and hospitality. It was a great class. Dr. John Edeen was there and helped out. I’ll tell you, the class is A LOT harder than I expected. In all of the years that I’ve been shooting, never have I fallen asleep on the range, much less during live fire. I’m pleased to report that I finished the class on a high note, with all of my 400-yard shots and the 250-yard head shot on the Redcoat target. While I didn’t make Rifleman this time, I’m looking forward to my next Appleseed class. I can’t let Rachel beat me at anything, and I’ve got my work cut out for me to get to her level of rifle shooting.

Paul/Susan-

Promo about upcoming training classes here.

Break

2- News 1

Aldermen want a ban on weapons at Chicago rallies after Charlottesville violence

Last week, a Chicago Alderman introduced an ordinance in response to the violence in Charlottesville, Va.

The ordinance says that because right-wing “paramilitary militias” carried guns and other weapons at the “Unite the Right” rally that devolved into violence, Chicago police should have explicit power to outlaw weapons at Chicago events.

Given that Chicago police can ban loudspeakers and other disruptions, Alderman Edward Burke said in a news release “it seems only fitting that Chicago should also be able to restrict the carrying of weapons during public demonstrations in order to curtail the possibility of violence.”

Chicago police already have broad powers about what may or may not be brought to marches and other public gatherings in the city. But the new proposal specifically bans “firearms, knives, weapons, sharp objects, shields, fireworks, chains, bats, clubs, sticks, batons and any other rod-like instrument.”

It also allows the Police Department “to determine other items that may not be allowed at an assembly.”

Violators would face fines of $500 to $1,000, and up to 10 days behind bars. The proposal will head to a joint Finance and Public Safety Committee hearing.

Rob- This sounds like legislating “pre-crime” to me. So far we’ve seen communist mayors disarm peaceful protesters while they stood back and let left wing goons beat people up.

Any rationalization will do to make chicago citizens vulnerable. How about we arrest chicago drug gangs and put them in prison.

Tracy – Let’s just go ahead and ban car keys while we’re at it (because car keys can be sharp objects) and have everyone take public transportation to the rallies. This is just sad.

ELMHURST POLICE: THERE WILL BE NO GUNS AT CONCEALED CARRY CLASS Safety concerns raised over a planned firearms class qualifying people to carry concealed weapons in Illinois are baseless, according to Elmhurst police chief Michael Ruth. “It’s strictly a classroom environment. There’s no weapons, there’s no firearms, there’s no ammunition. There’s none of those things.”Social media activity had raised the specter of armed students coming to the classes being offered in the Knights of Columbus Hall.Brad Carey, who manages hall rentals, was as emphatic as Ruth about the rental by Illinois Concealed Carry, LLC, the organization putting on the classes. “In the contract I had them sign, there’s no ammunition allowed in the hall, there’s no shooting going on.” Carey said. Carey also stated that during the rental the Knights bar will be closed and locked up.The issue was brought to the attention of the Elmhurst City Council meeting Tuesday when a resident told council members about their concerns. The resident cited what they claimed were written statements by previous class attendees that they were “required to bring a firearm” and were “required to shoot on the last day of class.”Ruth and Carey said after a full class day on Saturday, the Sunday classroom work would end at 1 p.m. Participants are expected then to leave Elmhurst for hands-on gun work at an approved firing range outside the city.Those intending to fire weapons outside Elmhurst after the class must possess a valid Illinois Firearms Owners Identification card issued by the Illinois State Police. Weapons to be transported must be broken down and not easily accessible from within the vehicle.

Paul- Gary, isn’t there a firing portion to the qualification to get an Illinois CCW?

Rob- You can smell the stupid from here. This is really poor journalism. Someone said shooting is required, so I don’t want a class in my neighborhood. It just SOUNDS dangerous.

In fact, the only point of the mandated training is to dissuade licensed gun owners.

Virgin Islands prepares to grab guns ahead of hurricane Irma

On September 4th ahead of the landfall of Hurricane Irma Kenneth Mapp, the Governor of the US Virgin Islands issued a directive that raised quite a few eyebrows. Quoting directly from the 2rd paragraph of the directive.

“The Adjutant General is authorized and directed to seize arms, ammunition, explosives, incendiary material and any other property that may be required by the military forces for the performance of this emergency mission”

Immediately after some in the media informed the Governor that the Virgin Islands were a territory of the US and were subject to the constitution, including the 2nd amendment, the Gov tried to backpedal and say that he was only authorizing release of weapons from an armory.

Rob- Annex the virgin islands and make them a county in Florida.

Tracy – No, annex them to Illinois!

Rob- notice the difference between this and Texas/Louisiana!

Gun Quotes- Can we hate our country enough to change it, and yet love our country enough to think it worth changing? Misquote of G. K. Chesterton

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with John Edeen.

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3- Interview 2

We’ve heard the claim that “Democrats want your guns”. I’ve heard it from republican candidates when they are running for office. I wanted to know if that was true.

That isn’t too hard to do. We know how many people have concealed carry permits in each state. We know what the permits costs and if the state doesn’t give permits to ordinary citizens. We also know the party affiliations of state governments. All we have to do is put it all together.

We see some consistent trends. Fewer of us get permits when the cost go up. The more training the state mandates the fewer of us get our permits. Some states make you take out a newspaper advertisement or call your employer before you can get a permit. Only judges and politicians get permits in “may issue” states.

You’re about three times more likely to get your permit if you live in a republican dominated state than in a democrat dominated state. If you really want to see political bias then look at the permitting schemes. The constitutional carry states are republican or neutral. The may issue states are all democrat controlled.

There is one exception. Vermont became democrat controlled and they never have had any gun licensing laws. They still don’t.

I wish it wasn’t so, but I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Judging by their actions, the democrats want us disarmed. I wish both political parties defended our rights.

Tracy – Many medical practices are now owned by major healthcare corporations, such as Healthcare Corporation of America. HCA has a policy prohibiting firearms at their facilities. How can we circumvent this? I work for a group of specialty physicians, some of whom are gun owners, but their practice is owned by a large corporation. Are those patients just out of luck?

Rob- Doc, why is this necessary?

5- DGUs (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

PA Home Invasion

Servando Santos was warned. After assaulting an elderly lady in Dauphin County PA, he forced his way into a nearby home. The homeowner confronted Santos and warned him that he was armed. Santos continued into the home. The homeowner then fired several shots, one of which hit Santos in the abdomen. He then continued further into the home and struggled with other people before being subdued shortly before police arrived.

Santos continued struggling with officers and was taken into custody. He was given medical attention at the scene and transported to a local hospital where he died from this wound.

The female from the first residence was in the hospital in critical condition

Tracy – what does Farnam say? Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

(Farnam says move!)

Taco Bell Shooting

Two armed robbers walked into Taco Bell in Cleveland. It was the middle of the afternoon and they were wearing masks on their faces as if they were acting in an old western. Instead of a Taco Supreme, they ordered the employees behind the counter to lie down on the ground. The robbers were both armed. Six employees were in the store that evening.

The robbers walked up to the cash registers and three other employees then fired several shots at the two masked men. They shot one of the robbers 6 times. The other robber immediately ran from the restaurant.

Police found the first robber laying face up on the floor unconscious with a faint pulse with the loaded gun still in his hand. He died after being taken to a local hospital.

The second robber had not been apprehended.

Gary –

Tracy – I’m glad to see an employer who lets their employees be armed at work.

Rob- great job. Work together next time.

Indianapolis Carjacking Prevented

Law student Kari Bird was getting out of her car. She was parked outside her home. It was almost midnight and a group of 3 or 4 young males approached her. She didn’t think much about it until one of the robbers presented his firearm and demanded her keys.

Just after handing over her keys, she remembered that all of her very expensive law books were still in her car. She reacted quickly and drew her own gun from the center console.

The robber said ‘Oh, [expletive]’ , and then ran.

Tracy- do we know what state this was in?

Rob- What would you tell your students to do?

Rob-

Spokane Neighbors Stop Burglars

Recently in a close knit Spokane neighborhood a couple was watching TV and noticed by the reflection in the TV that a couple of people were walking up to the house next door. They didn’t recognize either person and knew that the woman who lived there was not home.

They knew they were going to have problems contacting the neighbor since she had gone to an area of notoriously poor cell service.

Raymond Dupris watched the couple from his window as they walked past the house then came around back through an alley. The female burglar was pacing around and the next thing Dupris sees is a backpack fly over the fence and the male suspect jumps the fence. When he broke in the door, Dupris told his wife to call the neighbor from the other side of their home.

The neighbor came over with his gun and Dupris’ wife called Spokane police.

When the burglar tried to exit the home through the bathroom window, the neighbor aimed his gun at him. He then tried to flee through the front door but was cornered by Dupris and the neighbor.

“He just stopped in his tracks and got down on the ground. I held him down on the ground and got on him with my knee on the back of his neck and the other neighbor had the gun on him, and we were just waiting for the cops,” Dupris said.

Spokane police arrived quickly and arrested the 21 year-old man. He make an appearance in court for a residential burglary charge and a $500 bond was set.

Tracy – My doors are locked for YOUR protection! I’m also NEVER going to look for trouble. Call 911. This is why we have property insurance.

Rob- I want them to listen to this podcast so they have a plan. That means they know what to do, and what to not do.

Pistol Packing Mama chases off home invader

Brett Santo walked into Sarah Long’s home in Elyria OH and approached her 15 year-old daughter. When Long’s 17 year-old saw Santo, she screamed which launched her mother into action.

She grabbed a pistol by her bed and charged Santo but dropped her gun while still in her home. She and the 17 year old chased Santo out of the house and down the sidewalk until they lost sight of him.

Officers were dispatched to the area on a report of burglary suspect fleeing the area and Long provided a description.

Police found him on a short distance away and during the ride to the station admitted to burglarizing the home.

This was not the first time Long chased Santo from her home. He entered her home but left when confronted. This time when he approached her daughter, the mama bear made an appearance. Her boyfriend had just left the house and had told her to keep the pistol handy.

Rob- To give moma bear a bit of credit, maybe she chased her daughter, not the thief.

We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com Please take a minute and share them with a friend.

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6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

Listener e-mail discussion

Text Message #1

Hey guys

I was just wondering how many magazines would recommend someone to have for pistol and rifle?

Thanks

Jp

Tracy – The more, the better, and remember to buy quality magazines! Your life may depend on it.

Gary –

Hal thinks Paul’s choice in guns is… Less than ideal

I had just about forgiven Paul for his glock-fan-boy shame since he smarted up and started carrying a S&W Shield and then we came to episode # 412 and the question of BBQ guns. Paul made the statement regarding 1911’s… “I am not a 1911 fan” (gasp!!!) “I do not like them” (heresy!!!) “I think they are very old technology” (that should be stated as ‘have stood the test of time!’) and then, shame of shame “incredibly outdated”… OMG!!! I almost drove right off the dang road! I must admit, he did save a very small bit of face when he described how much he liked the Cabot 1911 with the meteorite grip, I could hear the lust in his voice! That made his previous comments almost bearable! I had to put the torches and the tar and feathers back into the closet that I hide them in and will once again try to find a way to forgive Paul for his blatant sacrilege of not liking a near perfect form of sidearm that some of us learned to shoot at the age of 7… some 53 years ago… as taught by our Marine father.

In response to the obvious question… yes, I have shot the glock, many times, and find it to be the Yugo of firearms, cheap, somewhat efficient, ultimately serviceable and totally undesirable, for me, on par with a hi-point… this is my opinion, no better than Paul’s, and we all know what they say about opinions!

now, if one of you would be so kind as to tell me what font we are supposed to use when utilizing sarcasm, those portions of my commentary in which I am utilizing sarcasm would be much more easily discernible…

sign me

Hal in Kaliforniastan

p.s. I am inserting a picture of a pair of the Cabot 1911’s in which much of the near perfect form of handgun is made of meteorite… please feel free to join me as I drool all over myself!

Rob- I read Amanda Suffecool’s book on producing a concealed carry fashion show.

Do you want to attract more women and minorities to your club? Do you want more young people at your events and fundraising activities? Here is your opportunity to back up your words with actions. Since concealed means concealed, new gun owners don’t know what they are missing.

Put on a concealed carry fashion show that looks like the members you want rather than the members you have. You can do more than tell new gun owners that they are a welcome part of Armed America; You can show them. Show them that concealed carry holders “look just like them.”

Amanda wrote this book with us in mind. This is a nuts-and-bolts kind of instruction manual. She identifies the people, positions, tasks and decisions you need to make your event a success. Events like this have been done before. We all can learn from their experience, the good and the bad.

I want you to do it. A fashion show does more than demonstrate methods of concealed carry for men and women. It can recruit new members into your club, and it can be entertainment for existing members. The show can be a fundraising event for your organization. You can showcase local vendors and promote their products. A fashion show does that, and something equally important.

A concealed carry fashion show communicates what responsible gun owners in your community look like. You get to make that statement rather than accept how gun owners are portrayed in the media.

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. I’d like to thank (Guests) for joining us today. So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Jae, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Craig, and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)

Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Tracy: be aware,

Rob: and we’ll see you down the road.

(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?

(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam. For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else. Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

Rob- I read the Wren decision out of the DC appeals court. I recorded David Cole for Self-Defense Gun Stories. I carried every day. We dodged a hurricane, so it is still a little wet to go to the range. I did some dry practice indoors.

John- My week has had dual highlights. First, I had dinner – in person, mind you – with Paul on Wednesday as he was driving through with a load. Then, my granddaughter Olivia spent the weekend with us which is always a treat. I also attended the Greensboro, NC gun show with my son-in-law and his dad. My biggest take-away is that AR prices are way down – Ruger AR-556s for as low as $449 – and that the new short barreled firearms from Mossberg and Remington are big hits.

Tracy- I went to Camp Gladiator five days this week. I gave a retired husband and wife a lesson on Thursday night, where they quickly learned that good gear choices can make or break a private lesson, and I worked as the chief range safety officer at Shady Oaks Gun Range today in Cedar Park. I’m still on the lookout for a reliable source for gas for my Denali.

Paul/Susan

Promo about upcoming training classes here.

Promo about patches

Break

2- News 1

So Let It Be Written So Let It Be Done.

In July 2010, R. Joseph Franzese submitted an application for a business license. He proposed opening a gun shop called Second Amendment Arms (SAA). Franzese bought the property advertised as commercial property, but the city now claims it was not zoned as commercial. He contends the city will block a gun shop, no matter where it’s located. TheSecond Amendment Foundation became Franzese’s ally and backed a case challenging a ban of firearms sales within city limits. A federal court judge in Illinois denied a City of Chicago motion for summary judgment and refused to dismiss the case. Robert M. Dow, Jr., U.S. District Court Judge set Sept. 28 as the next date to discuss damages for the plaintiff in Second Amendment Arms v. City of Chicago.

Alan Gottlieb, SAF founder and Executive Vice President, said “The City of Chicago under Rahm Emanuel is trying to be too clever by half. We would have thought by now that they would have ceased this pattern of spending tens of thousands of taxpayer dollars on stubborn litigation, but the city seems determined to be dragged kicking and screaming into compliance with the Second Amendment. Since losing its gun ban fight in the Supreme Court’s 2010 McDonald ruling. Chicago has been digging its heels in deeper and deeper, throwing every kind of legal roadblock it could in an effort to delay what seems inevitable. The city has got to follow the law and the constitution, and as long as they keep fighting, we’ll keep suing. That’s what winning firearms freedom one lawsuit at a time is all about.”

John – What Chicago is engaging in is a form of “red-lining”. The use of zoning to keep out legal business. It was originally used to keep African Americans out of certain neighborhoods because mortgage companies wouldn’t lend to them.

Rob- I agree, John. This is a civil rights violation and it has been going on for a very long time. Why is the city’s bigotry allowed to stand? The city demands live fire before it will grant a permit. A judge should demand that the city open police ranges to civilian use until a private company stands up.

The focus of the article is the federal Gun Free School Zones Act. This legislation was originally introduced by Senator Joe Biden and signed into law by President George H. W. Bush in 1990. In 1995 this law was struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court. This was a landmark decision. It was the first time in over 50 years that the Supreme Court placed limits on Congress’ ability to legislate under the Commerce Clause. In 1996, Congress massaged the language and reenacted this unconstitutional statute.

This statute criminalizes the possession of a firearm within 1,000 feet of the boundary of a school. There are exceptions to this rule. Unloaded firearms that are in locked containers in a vehicle are exempted. Private property within 1,000 feet of the school boundary but not part of school grounds is also an exception. Additionally, persons licensed to carry may be exempt. However, you must have a license issued by the state in which the school district resides.

If you live in a Constitutional Carry state and you do not possess a state-issued license, you have a problem. You are committing a crime if you find yourself carrying a firearm within 1,000 feet of a school boundary. Dr. Lott’s article points out the difficulty of even driving across a typical city without violating this law. Even if you are unaware of the school tucked back in the woods two streets to the east of you, you are eligible for a five-year, all expenses paid prison term and a $5,000 fine. Even gun-friendly states have anti-gun politicians and prosecutors in their larger cities.

Congressman Ron Paul introduced legislation to repeal the GFSZA on three separate occasions. His bills never made it out of committee. Can you say national reciprocity? The more things change, the more things stay the same. Gun control is about control, not guns.

Rob- I used to open carry in California. You had to know where every school was located.

Belle- How is this enforced?

Truckin’ through Wisconsin

Truck driver Guy Smith of Wisconsin pulled into a weigh station Kenosha County in June of 2016. He then found himself charged with carrying a concealed weapon after his revolver was seen in the cab of his truck. Of course, they confiscated his property. Mr. Smith does not possess a concealed weapons permit.

Smith’s defense attorney, John Monroe, prepared two theories to defend his client against these allegations. The first defense is as simple as it gets. In 2011 Wisconsin passed a law making it legal to have loaded handguns in vehicles. A revolver is a handgun, isn’t it?

To paraphrase, Monroe said the charge never should have been filed because the the law allows handguns in cars to be unencased and loaded. This seems pretty clear, doesn’t it? But the prosecutor intended to take this case to trial. The prosecutor actually stated that the law could not mean what it said because it would invalidate concealed carry law. The judge in the case corrected him by stating that it would “in cars.” Again, this seems like common sense stuff. That is true unless you are a prosecutor with an axe to grind against citizens arming themselves.

The second defense theory Monroe devised centered around Castle Doctrine. Wisconsin, and most other states, allow the use of firearms in their home, business or vehicle. As Mr. Smith’s truck provides transportation, a livelihood and lodging all three elements of a castle exist.

When prosecutor Thomas Binger learned of the defense Monroe planned to present at trial, he asked for a postponement. Presumably this was to give the State more time to prepare.

On August 28, just before the date of trial, the State dismissed all charges against Mr. Smith. Monroe pointedly stated they were not informed of this dismissal until the defense had been prepared and they traveled to Kenosha. As Dean Weingarten of Gun Watch stated, this sounds like a case of punishment by process. Was there ever an intention of going to trial with this? Or, was Mr. Smith just being railroaded by a powerful government?

After the dismissal, Mr. Smith said, “I’m just a trucker trying to stay alive. I want my gun back and I don’t want a record, and I’m not paying a fine. I didn’t do anything wrong.” Well done, Mr. Smith. Perhaps we need a remake of Mr. Smith Goes to Washington?

5- DGUs (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

Hurricane Harvey Mischief

As we have seen this week, while thousands were fleeing Hurricane Harvey, the low lifes came out to “play”. About an hour after the storm made landfall, police in Corpus Christi responded to a call and found a man with a gunshot wound in the head.

It appeared that the man tried to break into the home and the armed homeowner defended himself. The man was coherent and was transported to the local hospital.

In a second incident near Houston a few hours later, a home invader was shot and killed by the homeowner. Both incidents were still under investigation.

Rob- Low light. You need a flashlight and a cell phone.

Gary-

Tracy: My doors are locked for YOUR protection.

Belle- low light practice is more important than people give it credit for. How often is it dark? About half the time? Why wouldn’t you practice that skill?

Belle Night sight can be a distraction too. Low light shooting is likely to be close, because of the diminished ability to see anyway. Practice your point shooting or as Marty teaches, your Default Stance and you’ll develop the necessary skill.

Evil Roy shares a story

Fans of SASS or Cowboy Action Shooting know Gene Pearcey by his SASS moniker of Evil Roy. He recently posted this story.

Here’s a self-defense story from a friend. It demonstrates the value of awareness, presence of mind, and making other members of you family familiar and proficient with available firearms. Being a cool head doesn’t hurt either.

My friend stops at convenience store on the way back from the lake. His shorts are wet so he takes his small pistol out of his pocket and puts it the door pocket. He tells his wife the 1911 is in the center console and goes inside. A small car pulls up alongside and a guy gets out. The wind blows his shirt up exposing a weapon. The wife is not sure if it is a knife or gun but she is alerted. My friend comes back to the Suburban and opens the rear doors and reaches for the cooler. He turns around to see the guy standing very close looking very tense, wild eyed and agitated. Bad things are about to happen. Suddenly he gets very still and very slowly lowers his hands to his side and makes some idiot remark about looking for gas. My friend looks over his shoulder and sees his wife aiming a very shiny 1911 through the truck at the guys head with the safety off from the passenger’s seat. Guy very slowly mutters some nonsense and leaves. The wife did not say a word through the entire encounter. Lots to learn from this incident.

Rob- Teamwork is insanely effective.

Belle- Great example of why it’s important to be aware of pre-attack indicators.

Wrong ATM

Sierra McFatridge was outside getting her dog when she heard the crack of gunfire and saw a robber falling right in front of her. She said, “I didn’t know where the shot came from and then he was right there in front of me.”

A 51 year-old man had just visited the local ATM, withdrawn cash and was walking home when the robber hit him in the head. The robber had a rock. His intended victim had a gun.

The thug got away but a neighbor saw a woman in the get-away car and gave the license plate number to police.

Police said the victim was transported to the hospital with non-life threatening injuries. Once again the case was still under investigation.

Rob- The victim was walking with his son.

Gary- Grandma was robbed.

Man hold suspect at gunpoint until police arrive

In South Carolina, a deputy was serving a warrant for car theft when Christopher Cravets spotted the officer and ran from the scene. He was wanted on an armed robbery charge. The deputy called for backup and multiple agencies responded. The manhunt was on.

Charles Belcher had gone to visit his girlfriend in the area and she informed him of the ongoing manhunt. He retrieved his gun from his truck and went back inside.

He then went outside to check the property. He spotted Cravets hiding in the back of an Explorer in a carport on the property. He ordered the man out of the SUV and to lay face down on the ground. He then held him at gunpoint until the police arrived.

“The only thing I was worried about is if he had a gun and if he was going to try to shoot me,” Belcher added.

We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com Please take a minute and share them with a friend.

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6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

Listener e-mail discussion

Text message #1

Greetings all! Nice to have all the new voices on the show. All the best to Rachel in her new endeavor. I am getting a motorcycle and am wondering what others do who are disarmed at work. Thanks in advance. Also, even though I am disarmed at work , the vehicle I drive is 80,000 pounds. How many grains is that you math people!

Al the Iron Range trucker

560 million grains!

=====================================

Email from Dr Sean

Ok folks I have tried to stay out of the 1911 “discussion” but….allow me to go back a few episodes. You had a guest who was trying to decide between a Springfield EMP and the range officer. I own both and would suggest either or both for anyone. The EMP is nice for CCW when you have light clothes or need deeper concealment. The range officer is great to have a full size 1911 on your hip. Buy both and you can choose each day. They feel the same in your hand and function exactly the same. The only difference is the recoil.

ok Paul I have to agree with you on wanting a 64 1/2 Mustang (I would love one too) but anytime we compare cars and guns we run into problems. So if we are going to compare a 64 1/2 mustang and a new car the difference we see is a huge increase in government regulation and safety features as well as digitalization. So I’m afraid you would have to compare the 1911 to a “smart gun” in that comparison. I don’t think any of us want a smart gun!!

I’ll agree with Belle “1911 finest handgun known to man”, but I also like to take my wife’s XD mod2 out for some target shooting too. She carries hers all the time and loves it.

All in all, carry what you practice with, practice and get training often and above all else POGO!!

Thanks for all you do and see you at GRPC.

Dr. Sean

—

Sean D. Brodale DO

========================================

Barton carries in his truck!

Hey crew,

It has been 7 years since I have had interaction with the DOT but today was my lucky day. The Officer approached from the passenger side and asked if we could pull off into the truck stop parking lot a few blocks up. For Paul’s benefit we do 99%of our Excavation work in Barron county WI so we don’t see scales ever. Before he left I informed the officer of my Glock 22 as I openly carry. When we got to the parking lot and he started the inspection he and I had a wonderful chat about firearms as he cited me for a non approved air line splice and let the few other things go with a warning provided they are fixed within 15 days. Be polite with officers and do what they say always but especially when armed. This gentleman was polite as we chatted about guns walking around the truck and trailer looking at the needed repairs. Enjoy your night!

#norecipes

Barton in Wisconsin

==============================================

Jake writes in about safeties on firearms

I understand where he is coming from, but I have to disagree with Paul on manual safeties on concealed carry firearms. I have carried for years with a fullsize with no manual safety and a subcompact with manual safety (depending on the season, what I’m wearing, and the required level of concealment). If you ever observe me when shooting, you will notice on every gun, even those without when I draw or otherwise prepare to fire, my thumb swipes downwards on the left side of my gun as if disengaging a safety, and ends in a proper shooting grip. On guns without safeties, it doesn’t cost me anything in terms of time or mental effort, and of course it’s necessary on guns without safeties.

I’m beginning to change my mind on the usefulness of safeties and DA/SA guns purely for additional safety when reholstering. Reholstering is the most dangerous gun handling task we commonly do, and a stray string from a sweatshirt, piece of brass, rock, fold of a t-shirt, or any number of other things could get stuck inside the holster or trigger guard on holstering and cause an accidental discharge. With a hamer-down DA/SA gun, you can keep your thumb on the rear of the hammer so you feel it begin to move if the trigger is pressed by anything, and with a gun with a safety, you can physically stop the trigger from moving. If I want to carry with the safety off, I can toggle the safety on, holster, then withdraw just far enough to disengage the safety before reholstering. Lately, though, I just keep the safety on – I instinctively disengage it on drawing anyway.

Just my $0.02.

Jake (Formerly from Iowa)

Belle- 1911s are…The Finest Handgun Known to Man? Too much of a broken record?

Just wanted to thank Tim Crosnoe for his elaboration of natural point of aim as it is sometimes talked about in pistol shooting. I had begun to wonder how NPOA could be used in pistol shooting as the shoulders are mostly muscular joints. This seemed contradictory to the NPOA we learn at Appleseed which takes the muscles out and relies on the sling and bones to get an NPOA. It’s nice to know that I’m not the only one thinking about NPOA as it is different in pistol shooting vs rifle shooting. Thanks to Tim

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. I’d like to thank (Amanda Suffecool and Paul Martin for joining us today. So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Jae, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Craig, and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)

Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Tracy: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.

(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?

(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam. For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else. Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Tuesday, August 22nd, 2017 I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we will talk with Karl Rhen about Historic firearms training.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about the Arizona Supreme Court upholding state pre-emption

Paul: we’ll also talk with Gail Pepin about the Mantis X Training system, so climb aboard

Rob: strap in

John: and hang on!

Paul: episode 419 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

Rob- Carried every day. Recorded Amanda Suffecool for “Self-Defense Gun Stories.” What Amanda is doing with concealed carry fashion shows is amazing.

John- Thanks to a reminder by Erin Palette of Operation Blazing Sword, I signed up for Massad Ayoob’s MAG-20 class to be held in a suburb of Charlotte (North Carolina). I’ve wanted to take the MAG-40 for a long while but either the time or the distance wasn’t convenient. This gets me halfway there and it’s only a little more than 2 hours away.

Paul-

Promo about upcoming training classes here.

Break

2- News 1

Paul – Government tension in Arizona

It is not unusual for state governments to pass preemption laws. However, many city leaders believe they know best. They pass measures knowing that their local regulations conflict with state statutes.

The most recent example of this overreach is found in Tucson, Arizona. A recent, unanimous ruling by the Arizona Supreme Court struck down a 2005 ordinance requiring local police to destroy seized firearms. The problem is an earlier Arizona statute that prohibits local governments from enacting measures related to firearms or ammunition. Additionally, Arizona passed another law requiring cities to sell seized or otherwise acquired firearms to licensed dealers.

The issue was brought to a head by SB 1487. This law provides that legislators may point out instances of cities ignoring preemption laws to the Attorney General. If the Attorney General finds this to be the case, he or she may withhold up to half of the city’s state funding. Tucson argued that this amounted to illegal coercion. Justice John Pelander, however, stated the intent of SB 1487 is to, “require and incentivise political subdivisions to comply with state law.” This is a positive step in the right direction. It gives teeth to preemption laws that cannot be ignored by power hungry local officials.

Rob- Tucson destroyed hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of firearms. That is enough money to buy all the Tucson cops body armor..but the city says they don’t have enough money for that. They the municipal government does have enough of the taxpayer’s money to fund years of legal challenges claiming they are above the law.

John- It is interesting to compare this decision with the recent one that didn’t uphold pre-emption by the Washington State Supreme Ct. In this case the AZ justices read the law and applied it. In Washington State, the majority justices had to virtually invent exceptions to that state’s very strong firearms pre-emption law.

Rob- Politicians in a black dress.

John- Under Dillon’s Rule, counties and cities are creatures of the state. They only have the power clearly granted to them by the state. This is a long-standing legal principle.

Paul –

Rob- The law requires deliberate misconduct.

John – Gun Quotes- A businessman cannot force you to buy his product; if he makes a mistake, he suffers the consequences.. A bureaucrat forces you to obey his decisions, whether you agree with him or not. If he makes a mistake, you suffer the consequences; if he fails, he passes the loss on to you. Ayn Rand

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with Karl Rhen.

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3- Interview 1- Karl Rhen Pt 1

4- Interview 2 – Karl Rhen Pt 2

5- Mantis X

Rob- 6- DGUs (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

Rob- Judge returns fireIt was just another Monday morning when Judge Joseph Bruzzese, Jr. parked his car in his reserved spot next to the Jefferson County courthouse in Steubenville, OH yesterday. Within a couple of minutes things would change.As Judge Bruzzese walked toward the stairs leading up to the courthouse shortly before 8 AM, he was “ambushed” by Nathaniel Richmond. According to Sheriff Abdalla, video footage showed a vehicle with 2 occupants at 7:12 AM which then left and returned at 7:30.Richmond approached the judge and shot him at near-point blank range in the chest then took off running toward the vehicle. Judge Bruzzese was armed and both he and a probation officer returned fire. Video showed the judge taking 5 shots at Richmond. Richmond was shot and killed by one of the two.The sheriff said had the probation officer not been there, “this “gentleman” would have kept on shooting until he killed the judge.”Although Richmond had never appeared in Judge Bruzzese court, he has had been involved in a number of cases in the last several years. He had filed a lawsuit in the judge’s court in April, alleging wrongful death in the death of his mother in a house fire in 2015. The hearing was scheduled for the end of August.Richmond was the father of Ma’lik Richmond who served 10 months in juvenile detention after a conviction, along with another high school football player, for the rape of a 16 year-old girl in 2012. Richmond was a star on the football team and the case got international attention amid allegations of a cover-up to protect the football team. Ma’lik had no contact with the judge in his case.Judge Bruzzese was alert and talking after the shooting and was airlifted to the hospital in nearby Pittsburgh and is expected to survive. Judge Bruzzese has served on the court since 1997 and had been elected to the most recent 6 year term in 2014. He had started carrying a gun years ago because there’s “nutcases out there who want retaliation.”

Paul- I can’t talk about Ohio, but many states treat judges as above the law. They can get permits in states where the rest of us would have to go unarmed. I looked at the 25 most dangerous occupations, and “Judge” didn’t make the list.

John – NC treats judges and DAs as above the law in terms where you can carry. Beyond that, I see this as a case showing how it is important to stay in the fight even if you wounded. It could save your life.

Rob- Some Ohio judges granted themselves authority to carry in their courtroom and everywhere else in public WITHOUT having to obtain an Ohio carry permit. It must be nice to be king..or at least a judge.

Paul – 3 shots connected with at least 6 fired. More training please

John – Self-defense against crossdressers

In Lithonia, Georgia recently, a man dressed as a woman broke into a local home just after 2 AM. The homeowner confronted the subject and gave him a verbal warning. The burglar continued to approach him and he fired one shot. He did the right thing in the opinion of neighbors because he has a wife, daughters and mother in the home. The burglar died at the scene. The homeowner is not being charged as the police have determined this was a self-defense shooting.

Paul – Do you think alcohol or drugs might have been involved here?

Paul – Might have been better if you POGO

A Kansas City MO man and woman had just returned home at 5 AM from a visit to WalMart after working the night shift. They had put the groceries in the apartment and he was walking her to her car when a man dressed all in black came around the corner. He was demanding them to give me things and threatening him with a gun. The male victim emptied his pockets.

He then started moving them into the apartment. At this point the male victim decided to grab his gun which was just inside his door and fight back.

“I walked out, he was still holding the gun and I thought he was going to shoot me that minute, and I just took a couple shots and he ran off,” the victim told police. Unsure if he had hit the man, he and his girlfriend retreated into his apartment and called 911.

Responding police found the man dead.

Rob- I have to call this man foolish. He didn’t have a gun with him. Once he faced a lethal threat, he did not make the decision to use lethal force, but waited until he had his gun pointed at the criminal to decide to shoot. That is an important distinction. You can choose to NOT SHOOT at any time, but I want you to make the choice to save your life when you see an immediate and unavoidable lethal threat.

John – Bob Mayne, Ben Branam, and Paul Carlson had a great discussion on visualization in a recent Handgun World Podcast.

Paul-

Rob- Training with realistic targets can help you shoot when you need to.

Cellular 911 Call

A Verizon Wireless store employee practiced POGO and it probably saved his life. 2 men attempted to rob the cellular store in the late morning recently. While being held at gun point, the clerk pulled his firearm from his waist band and fired several shots at the thug brandishing his gun at him.

The wounded suspect was “awake and breathing” and the clerk had “both guns in his hands” as 911 audio revealed.

The clerk does have his government issued permission slip to carry his gun concealed.

The suspect had fired his gun but it was not determined who shot first.

The suspect was transported to a local hospital gunshot wounds. He and his comrade had been in the store several times recently. The other robber fled the scene in a light blue van.

John – I wonder if he will keep his job.

Paul – I don’t know if it’s a great idea to handle the gun, but you have to make it safe.

We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com Please take a minute and share them with a friend.

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7- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

Voice mail

Email #1, this one from Phil

I enjoy your podcast and… really wish you’d give more information about each episode in the written introduction. I don’t know who the guests are, so please describe what they talk about, so I can decide if that episode is what I want to hear. (“We need/want more listener feedback” is too often the only thing you post.)

Thanks for hearing me!

Email #2

I just listened to your podcast of a week ago and I heard Paul mention Dirty Harry’s 16 shot revolver. If I may…a correction. The Dirty Harry movies are better than most when it comes to the realistic portrayal of guns. You see, I have this annoying habit of counting shots in the movies, especially when it comes to revolvers. If they go overboard I’ve know to express my displeasure, especially to my wife. That’s when she usually gives me a look and I shut up. Anyway, Harry usually shoots 4 or 5 times before the end of that “scene”. Never more than 6 that I can recall. Exception… in the second movie (Magnum Force) during the police shooting competition, Harry shoots 6, then is clearly seen using his speed loader, then 6 more before he yells “out”. Anyway, the point to this silly email is to point out that the Dirty Harry movies are the rare example of Hollywood getting it “pretty close” to right.Regards,Tony

Rob- I looked at the costs to get your concealed carry permit in “shall issue” states. We paid over 4 billion dollars and spent over 65 million hours in classes to get our permits. As you should imagine, that much time and money talks, and the state mandates disarmed 11 million of us. We would at least double the number of people legally carrying if constitutional carry were the law of the land. That and more are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland, and at my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com.

John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money

Our listeners may remember Cody Wilson. Among other things, he developed the Liberator pistol which can be made using a 3-D printer. We interviewed him at the 2016 GRPC. Cody now has a company selling 80% AR lowers and mini-CNC machines that allows you to complete that lower. This past week his Internet provider, Cloudfare, cancelled his GhostGunner.net account. While Cloudfare preaches “free speech”, they closed his website over content. This is the same thing that they did to the white supremacist site Daily Stormer. It leads to the question as to whether social media companies are deciding to purge or restrict libertarian or conservative oriented websites because of their “values”.

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. I’d like to thank Karl Rhen and Gail Pepin for joining us today. So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Jae, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Craig, and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)

Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Rachel: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.

(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?

(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam. For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else. Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.