Thursday, October 22, 2009

TASER Restrictions

The maker of Taser stun guns is advising officers to avoid shooting suspects in the chest with the 50,000-volt weapon, saying that it could pose an extremely low risk of an "adverse cardiac event."

The advisory, issued in an Oct. 12 training bulletin, is the first time that Taser International has suggested there is any risk of a cardiac arrest related to the discharge of its stun gun.

But Taser officials said Tuesday that the bulletin does not state that Tasers can cause cardiac arrest. They said the advisory means only that law-enforcement agencies can avoid controversy over the subject if their officers aim at areas other than the chest.

So what use is the TASER if you can't fire it at the largest target possible - center mass? We guess we'll be going back to shooting and killing non-compliant subjects and mentally disturbed individuals shortly.

109 Comments:

The thing about this 'decision' by Taser is, you really can't control the spread of the barbs. If hitting someone in the chest increases the chances of cardiac arrest, then it may be prudent formunicipalities to re-evaluate the possession and use of the taser as standard "less than lethal" equipment. Maybe we need to go more the route of the bean bag shotguns, or the return of thedreaded SAP!

Oh, and don't aim at their head cause it may cause brain damage, and don't shoot them in the privates because it may make then sterile. Try not to shoot them if they are standing in water. If they have a history of drug abuse then you shouldn't shoot them either. We, the makers of Taser, are not saying that our product causes any of this to happen, we're just saying we gave fair warning to Police Officers therefore they are responsible. Thank you.

who needs a taser when you are still issued a night stick and can deploy it in your defense lawfully--- you have an assailant, you pop him in the melon with the stick and justify your actions on paper--- yes it is a trr and a lot of paperwork but you go home and shitbird goes for a stitch job at the hospital--- fuck him, he wanted to box and he got his ass handed to him, next time he may think twice about f'in with the police-----

SCC, the fact is that if you look at the cases where suspects died after being tased, there was another factor which contributed to the death, i.e. drugs, alcohol, physical health etc. Someone please show me a case where the TASER caused a death and there were no other factors involved........

How about making the darts honkin' bigger and doing away with the wires. Oh, and each cartridge should have six or eight darts. Now were talking! Yeah, and the darts should be propelled by black powder charges or something, that could put them right through the target...oh wait... I think I already have one of these.

Having used this thing a couple of times, this makes little or no sense to me. It's not like there is a tremendous amount of accuracy attainable with these darts. And forget about having an opportunity to put 40 rounds or 50 rounds through one for practice!

I think these things were a GREAT use of force alternative, BUT issuing an advisory like this just shifts liability from the manufacturer to the user, something that TASER corp wasn't doing in the past. Now they can say "WE TOLD THEM NOT TO SHOOT PEOPLE IN THE CHEST. WE EVEN SENT THEM AN ADVISORY BULLETIN TO THAT EFFECT"

You can also expect to see this TASER bulletin as the centerpiece of future wrongful death lawsuits against law enforcement agencies... "Well Officer Doe, if you were aware of the TASER advisory for NOT shooting suspects in the chest, WHY DID YOU DO IT?

"We" don't have tasers in the first place to go back to shooting anyone.

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"We" is the CPD dope. "We" are going to go back to shooting active resisters because they are going to be up close and personal to our guns and they are going to grab them. TASER gave us distance. Now we won't have it.

"In the moody and darkly lighted video, Theodore McClendon said 'the thug mentality is what killed my parents.' He said the people who killed them saw the couple's classic American car, the kind 'that thugs want so they can really soup it up.' So they just decided to take it, he said.

'My parents happened to be the unfortunate victim of their immaturity and their thugism, and quite frankly to their primitive nature,' he said. 'We got to change this. Unless we change this we are doomed to have an uncivilized society. We are doomed to live in a quagmire of primordial existence. Unless we change it.

But we got to admit it. That's where black leaders have to wake up. Black leaders have to come to grips that our pathologies run deep.

Despite the causes of black pathologies, we must understand they exist. We need to address them rather than to blame external forces, blame economics, blame the white man. Blame something that's not going to solve anything.

50,000 volts !Jeez, the condemned only received2,000 volts when they were put todeath in the Electric Chair.But apart from the twitching andshaking the Tazer does not causethose "other" unpleasant side effects.

I'd be interested in the stock purchases or sales of company stock by employees just prior to the release of this memo. They have effectively slit their throats. I can no longer carry one as a "less than lethal" tool. If you deploy this tool in a situation requiring "less than lethal" force, your getting sued if it goes bad.

OT but...You are missing the point! The city, with the blessing from FOP want to stop you from saving the 6&4 BFD and PD days and cashing them in! Big expense to the city so with less weekends in the new plan you will most likely burn those days to get some weekends off! Genius!

Taser is a less lethal option,always has been.ED,or excited delerium is a modern garbage science term for a non-existant medical condidtion.Both the AMA(medical) and APA(psychiatry)do not aknowledge ED as a real medical condition.

Tasers are safe, don't ya know. Isn't that what we constantly hear? Taser is trying to make itself immune from future product liability lawsuits from Taser deaths by stating their product can't be used by hitting center mass. Go back to the old Asp my friends.

Remember when being in possession of a taser or taser like devise was a UUW? Than a certain retired CPD superintendant was hired as a chief spokesman for Taser. Our department ran out and bought them, then upgraded them and everyone passing through the academy had to be Tased???????Amazing how this shit happens...

You are supposed to aim and hit the target IN THE BACK in the best case scenario. (It is the largest muscle mass area which has the best effect with the prongs)

In the CPD training we are told we should very calmly walk around behind the offender if it's all possible and then line up the red dot square in the middle of his back and fire. It has the most effect plus it's safer because of less chance of striking someone in the eye.

Any time someone uses force, there is a chance that the other person is going to be hurt to some degree. Far more people are saved by not being shot than have taser induced heart attacks. The laws need to be changed to indemnify the officer and the dept. Not doing so will only result in a good tools not being used for fear of being sued. And of course, the continued engorging of souless, blood sucking, parasitic bottom feeding attorneys.

Optimally, You want to introduce the darts into the back, not the chest. The back is a larger muscle structure and provides better deployment area. It also provides a barrier from the heart, having the lungs, esophogus, and stomach in the way. Taser has always recommended that you try for a back shot. As one poster put it, they are shifting the liability from them to the user. Taser is not saying not to use their tool, just don't deploy it to the chest. Back shots are more fun anyway. They never see it coming and cannot prepare for it. So if you carry a taser, don't be afraid to use it, just try and position yourself for the suprise back shot. Lastly, don't try to taser a subject armed with a gun. This is not a viable alternative. Deadly force calls for deadly force. The taser is a nice tool, but it is not the "magic bullet." An encounter with a man with a gun calls for opposite and at least equal, if not, greater response. Don't get killed trying to use less than the force neccessary.

"We" don't have tasers in the first place to go back to shooting anyone.

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"We" is the CPD dope. "We" are going to go back to shooting active resisters because they are going to be up close and personal to our guns and they are going to grab them. TASER gave us distance. Now we won't have it.

Off the Subject:Have you heard anything concerning a rise in officers being fined punitively on cases that the city has vowed to fight? Apparently, another lawsuit was lost by the city's lawyers that are suppose to protect the officers.

This seems like an attempt to move whatever liability there might be for the use of a Taser from the company to the user.

That's not an altogether bad thing. The user is ultimately responsible for the use or misuse of the Taser.

However, I don't see how it is practical in many cases not to hit the chest area, even if you don't aim there.

It may be that some kind of legislative solution is in order to clarify just what the limits of police use of force should be, rather than allowing police forces to essentially make up their own rules about it. Although, chanaces are the legislature would just muddy the waters.

lol this old sgt has been saying for the past couple of years that the Arizona based tazer company being hit with lawsuits left and right has had their lawyers put out mutiple legal disclaimers after settling more than 80 wrongful death suits and hundreds pending. Guess who is responsible if you squeeze the trigger 2-3 seconds too long and someone dies,...that would be you SGT, because no boss above you is fool enough to carry a tazer! Get real people, sometimes it helps, sometimes it kills, and sometimes it makes a crazy go much wilder on you...well I have gotten by without a tazer for almost 3 decades, so why would I shoulder the legal responsibility alone for CPD. That's right I won't! Sgt.

Here's to all the liberal strokes...maybe in a perfect world we wouldn't need tasers. The fact remains that we live in a society where the savages prey on the non-savages. I can't say that they prey on the weak because they will prey on ANYONE, uniformed police included. So here's the deal, if you don't want to be beaten by the police, tazed by the police, or shot by the police...don't give the police any reason to do these things to you. Act like a fucking human being and play by the rules. Don't beat people, don't rob people, don't use drugs, don't carry illegal weapons, don't force the police to use a gun in the protection of themselves or others. Seems so easy, doesn't it ?

The Taser is made and meant to be fired at the back of a subject....NOT the front if at all possible....The back is the largest muscle group on the upper body. The Taser works by creating a strong muscle contraction thus rendering the offender incapable of controlling his body.

Fuck this shit. Major fight inside Fenger H.S. at 1135 hrs. 022 and 005 officers responded to fights all thru the school. Taser deployed by P.O. on POS "HOHOR STUDENT" who fought with Police and School Security. Jessie-or is it Al Sharpton- time to ride the bus to the school again asswipe.

OT: Apparently the female court sergeant at Area 1 finally got what was coming to her. Starts with her authoritative bitchy bullshit to an officer who showed up with plain clothes on. Officer says his box 1 partner couldn't make it due to another court appearance so he had to show up in that officer's place and that there was no time to switch clothes because he was on the street and this was at the last mintue. She continues with her bullshit and sees the star number of 4 digits on the officer, with that this officer who is a sergeant tears her a new ass. Can't stand that retard and her ridiculous tennis elbow brace. Apparently that happens from pushing pencils your whole career

I'm surprised no one brought up yesterdays FOP meeting and how Masters danced around questions under oath about his status with the CPD and his ability to carry a Gun. The best was when it was stated that if you want a easy UUW just arrest Masters.

There's a reason these folks are numbskulls. A well aimed kick in the gonads should calm them down. If Jesse & the play reverends find this too harsh they should get volunteers from the community to deal with these folks. I think the "THUG Mentality" should work just fine.

* Adjusted revenues for the third quarter of 2009 were $26.8 million, an increase of $4.0 million or 17% over the same quarter of the prior year. For the first nine months of 2009, adjusted revenues were $73.2 million, an increase of $6.8 million or 10.0% over the first nine months of 2008. Adjusted revenues exclude the impact of a $3.5 million revenue deferral related to the X26 to X3 trade-in credit program, the balance of which is expected to be recognized as revenue when the trade-in occurs or the offer expires at December 31, 2009. On a GAAP basis, net sales for the third quarter and first nine months of 2009 were $23.3 million and $69.7 million, respectively. Net sales for the third quarter and first nine months of 2008 were $22.9 million and $66.4 million, respectively.

* The Company generated $5.5 million in cash from operating activities in the first nine months of 2009 with ending cash and cash equivalents of $45.4 million and no debt.

Significant events in the third quarter of 2009 include the following:

1. International sales represented 19% of net sales and 16% of adjusted revenues for the third quarter (including the impact of revenue deferred for GAAP purposes relating to the X26 to X3 trade-in program). Significant shipments during the third quarter included follow-on orders for 1962 TASER(R) X26(TM) ECDs, 1962 TASER CAMs(TM) and related accessories to Australia.

2. Sales to our Federal and military customers significantly increased during the quarter, partly due to the first order for TASER(R) X26(TM) ECDs and cartridges shipped under an indefinite delivery, indefinite quantity (IDIQ) contract from the U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP).

3. On July 27, 2009, the next generation TASER(R) X3(TM) ECD was unveiled at the annual TASER Conference. The TASER X3 is capable of firing three cartridges without reloading and uses a Pulse Calibration System(TM) to constantly monitor and calibrate electrical output to provide more consistent effects on the target.

4. Six (6) product liability suits were dismissed during the quarter, representing at the end of the quarter a total of ninety-six (96) wrongful death or injury suits that have been dismissed or judgment entered in favor of the Company.

Every good tool that we have as police officers is being taken away slowly but surely. No more searching cars incident to arrest (AZ v. Gant), vehicle pusuits, now tasers. When will it end and when will we be allowed to do our jobs?

I would administer the wood shampoo over electric massage anyday of the week! Chased a guy with a gun down an alley and a sgt. tazed him. Dude had already pitched the gun which was now next to another gang banger who was thinking heavily about picking it up. Luckily he had two other real guns pointed at him. Gun vs tazer, no contest.

50,000 volts !Jeez, the condemned only received2,000 volts when they were put todeath in the Electric Chair.But apart from the twitching andshaking the Tazer does not causethose "other" unpleasant sideeffects._____________________________Apples to oranges......Amps is whats used to kill by electrocution assbag

heh... let us carry saps again or better yet instead of these batons made of "garbage wood" (the varnish on it is worth more than the baton itself) how about bringing back the REAL tune-up sticks made of REAL wood like Northside's beloved cocobolo though we're more than curious about the potential curative powers of an impact instrument turned from Lignum Vitae which is far harder by several degrees in addition to having suitability for maritime applications (propeller bearings, block & tackle, belaying pins etc) due to it's resin...

as soon as we can find a woodshop that still does lathe work, we'll purchase a likely piece, have a template drawn on an existing baton and have a blank cut; we'll run a lanyard and do some "field testing."

we like the one comment about ju jutsu... a very much admired late uncle was a Special Forces NCO during the Vietnam War... we had to run what we learned by him whenever he was home on leave... it was NOT PRETTY but we learned a lot. our real rude awakening was learning in the academy that corp. counsel essentially has final say over how Police Officers can/can't protect themselves and we ALL know corp. counsel wouldn't be caught dead near a pissy stairwell let alone fighting it out with some white tee-shirts IN one...

stay safe and watch those hands and if you must go hands on, completely and totally destroy the offender and their will to fight/resist...

OT Can anyone tell me why we have a Director of R&D AND a Commander of R&D (ruthie)? Isnt that the same job? Also J-fed how about explaining the double standard when it comes to treating exempts who f-up compared to us lowly PO"s. Look at Cuelo, Crump, Ruthy, Masters, Lodding, Roy and now Gross???? what happened to ANY of them....NOTHING!!!!!! you are a fake and a phony and a sorry excuse for a "leader".

OTDispatcher on zone 6 doesn't give out a 10-1. Two 10-1 events come accross the board and her partner can be heard loudly and urgently telling her to get out the 10-1 event. Dispatcher refuses so the secondary does what she is supposed to do and dispatches the job. The primary dispatcher who failed to dispatch the job is the sister yes I said the sister of the guy who failed to dispatch the infamous 10-1 last month. Guess stupidity runs in the family. Best part is that nothing happened to the primary who failed to dispatch the 10-1 in a timely manner but a supervisor was seen giving papers to the secondary who thought quickly and gave out the job (I didn't see the papers but am told it was a reprimand). Watch your back out there guys and girls because while most of us up here at OEMC want you to make it home, some of us just arent cut out for this job.

Two words a cop never wants after his or her name: deceased or defendant.

Tasers have bothered me for years and I have been tracking the Taser controversy for the past couple. I know there are extremes in favor and against Taser use but cautions of late have been coming from more rational sources.

The American Medical Association comes down to a common sense middle. AMA says Tasers, used properly, can save lives and, when not, cost them. The manufacturer isn't going to bum rap its own product, of course, so the caution is maybe the tip of the iceberg. Also, the RCMP has been tracking Tasers since their own gonads got in the vice and even they aren't going as far as the manufacturer--yet.

My own take is that a Taser should be used in the continuum of force just below the hand cannon. Simply too risky and too unpredictable and I've certainly seen lots of improper use.

I believe they would be "less lethal" as opposed to "less than lethal."

I'll tell you one thing, I currently work in 003 and there were a couple of Sergeants on Midnights who would show up and TASER these assholes in a heartbeat. I saw it myself many times. The Sergeants backed there guys to the fullest and never ever hesitated using the tool. Sgts from around the city can learn alot from Sgt Jimmy L. and Sgt Joe H.

My .45 cal pistol is safe and doesn't cause heart attacks. Damn if I want an assailant to have a heart attack, just two warning shots through the liver is usually enough to bring about total cooperation and a visit to the Medical Examiner.

Anonymous said...And to think old retired boss terry hillard sold the city as lobbist all the the tasers! How much did terry make? Who did he payoff?

10/23/2009 12:26:00 AM

Hey, there are only so many 6 figure jobs for ex-superintendents over at the CPD Memorial. What's an ex-superintendent to do for Filet Mignon money? You wouldn't want one of them to go hungry, would you?

Look at poor old Leroy Martin, still having to hump down to the ME's office every day to sit in that chair. How the hell are they supposed to survive on 75% of superintendent's salary?

I'll tell you one thing, I currently work in 003 and there were a couple of Sergeants on Midnights who would show up and TASER these assholes in a heartbeat. I saw it myself many times. The Sergeants backed there guys to the fullest and never ever hesitated using the tool. Sgts from around the city can learn alot from Sgt Jimmy L. and Sgt Joe H.

I second that. Sergeants Jimmy L and Joe H of 003 with probably 13-15 years on the job knew how to take care of there guys each and every day. We've lost Jimmy L to a unit and he's sorely missed. Both Sgts were hardworking, knowledgable and have BIGGGGG Balls! I couldn't believe my mind when they came to 003 they were new Sgts, both true leaders!!

4. Six (6) product liability suits were dismissed during thequarter, representing at the end of the quarter a total ofninety-six (96) wrongful death or injury suits that have beendismissed or judgment entered in favor of the Company.

a. Show up to call in a shiny clean car.b. Properly park said shiny clean carc. Exit said car being mindful of residents grass,flowers and small lawn ornaments and or pets as you exit the vehicle.d. Check self in sideview mirror for proper amount of Hair Gel and/or amount of Visible Cleavage.e. Flash that Winning Coppertone Smilef. SASH E over to the immediate area of the alleged disturbance.g. Softly utter in your most theatrical compassionate voice,"Gee are YOU OK????" (show genuine concern in your eyes.)h. IF VIOLENCE IS PRESENT....SCURRY BACK TO SAID SHINY CAR AND NOW COOLED LATTE,GET ON BLACK BERRY,CALL FOR HELP.I. Never EVER EVER use display draw or otherwise point ANY weapons at any citizen at any time under any circumstance.J. Await over buffed (and SEXY) SGt to arrive with a TASER.Just the mere SIGHT of the laser sight SHOULD thwart even the mass murderer lurking in the baement of the house of the job you are milking.K. After all is done,professional hug said buffed (and SEXY) Sgt.L. Go to lunch or other HIDE SPOT.

SAN JOSE -- A federal jury in San Jose has awarded $6 million to the family of a Salinas man who died after police officers repeatedly shocked him with Taser stun guns.

The jury on Friday found that Taser International of Scottsdale, Ariz., was responsible for the death of 40-year-old Robert Heston Jr.

He died on Feb. 20, 2005, a day after police officers shocked him with tasers as many as 30 times while trying to subdue him at his father's home. A friend had called 911 to report Heston was behaving violently.

The jury found that Taser International had failed to warn police that its stun guns could be dangerous when used on people under the influence of drugs or in conjunction with chest compressions.

An autopsy found that Heston died from a combination of methamphetamine intoxication, an enlarged heart due to long-term drug abuse, and Taser shocks.

I participated in the TASER conference call Friday and learned that the reason for the change in "preferred" target area is to prevent barbs to the eyes. There is no concern about the "cardiac" event and TASER assured all on the call that they'll back their product. Deep breath guys......

I think the Taser is a great tool. Less copper get hurt fighting the shitbags. But the tasers are breaking down or low volts. In some districts, sgt's who have never discharged a taser are horting them from the sgt's who have the balls to zap a assailant. Hey you ball less sgt's out there, give up the working tasers to the working supervisors.