For instance, here is a stage from last month. There is just not a lot to figure out. Safely burn it down as you see it. If this stage is repeated, there appears to be no advantage. Again, this is not known to be a Regional stage, and is stated to me to not be, but would it really make a difference if it was?

I just really enjoy watching Jordan shoot. I was never that fast when I was 18.

The only advantage to having shot a stage before is if it involves something you've never done...head shots from retention...or something you seldom practice...going prone. I don't think most IDPA stages are long enough or involved enough to make figuring them out, after the walk through, a big deal

Quote:

The Regional's stages are, I am informed, designed to test your shooting and gun handling skills. I'm still trying to just improve my reloads. Now that would give me an advantage.

That video clip was just depressing

__________________...because the journey is the worthier part...The Shepherd's Tale

Jordan is indeed talented but he works hard. That’s why he was an IDPA World champion.

Tang, as you know, I had the pleasure of SOing Logan Fowler’s classifier recently. I believe Logan is another one of the young Turks at age 22; he holds several GSSF and Steel Challenge records. When I added up his score it was 78 and some change. Definitely Master level. The second time he was within a few tenths of his first try.

After his classifier, Logan ran the Glock plates consistently under two seconds. I shot the Glock plates last week in 4.78 at a match. So, it all shows, my fellow “Senior” friend, that we have a ways to go.

It really is a pleasure to watch excellent shooters at work. Logan and Jordan ought to have a good time at the Regional and I’m looking forward to again seeing all the shooters from the SO ranks.

As far as it being depressing to watch Jordan’s reload, I tend to see it as “inspiring.” If it makes you feel better, here is another stage where Jordan is just like all the rest of us. Who hasn’t done this little ditty?

If you need a classifier to qualify for the Winton match, we'll hold one this Saturday.

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We will be holding an IDPA Classifier at Richmond on May 18th. Note that there are some special issues with this event:

- Time constraints require that we keep this to 12 shooters or less
- Priority will be given to (in the following order): shooters registered for the Winton or State (Sacramento) sanctioned matches who need a classifier to meet eligibility requirements, new IDPA shooters who do not hold a current classification of any kind, then everyone else
- All participants must be a current IDPA member (https://www.idpa.com/join-now)

To reserve a spot, you must RSVP to me by PM (include your name and email address). I will lock the shooter list on Thursday evening (5/16) so that you know in advance whether you have a spot or not.

It is hard to see how even repeating such stages would be an advantage anyway. There was nothing special to work out.

Even if a stage is repeated, I am not sure it creates any advantage. As I remember, my best time on the stage you cite was the first time I shot it. That stage went through a variety of adjustments. Indeed, most of the people who won their divisions and classifications at last year's Regional were from out of the area and had the advantage of seeing it fresh and just running their guns.

I suppose someone could claim that the stage designer should not shoot the match designed or that those who set up a stage should not shoot it because of an advantage but IDPA stages are set up to be straight forward so as to test shooting and gun handling skills. I'm just not sure it makes any real difference.

Again, this is not known to be a Regional stage, and is stated to me to not be, but would it really make a difference if it was?

It's incredibly bad form for a club to test-run stages or specialized props that are to be used in a sanctioned match. Regardless of your opinion, for anything other than standards-type stages (no props, no elaborate movement, etc.), it does provide a level of familiarity for local shooters that is not available to out-of-towners.

The good news is that the MD for the Winton match is a good friend, and a very ethical competitor. I have zero doubt that he would avoid doing anything that could be construed as providing practice for championship match stages.

It's incredibly bad form for a club to test-run stages or specialized props that are to be used in a sanctioned match. Regardless of your opinion, for anything other than standards-type stages (no props, no elaborate movement, etc.), it does provide a level of familiarity for local shooters that is not available to out-of-towners.

The good news is that the MD for the Winton match is a good friend, and a very ethical competitor. I have zero doubt that he would avoid doing anything that could be construed as providing practice for championship match stages.

Gryff:

You have been at this longer than I but I do not fully understand your comments. I do agree that the MD has not one care about giving some unfair advantage. In fact, quite often, the more challenging the stage, the more pleasure it provides. For some, it is about challenging oneself to be better. Previewing to practice would take the accomplishment out of it.

In the 2010 State Match at 5 Dogs, they used a Texas Star. We never use that around here. Are you saying that their IDPA shooters never saw that before? And if they had, that they gained an unfair advantage? I guess so.

In the 2009 Richmond Championship they used a sliding target that we do not use around here. The two sliding targets sled was probably shot at their matches. No? That championship also had a non-weighted dummy to drag about. Had that been used before? Ours weighs quite a bit but every competitor is allowed to handle it before we shoot the stage. There was also a dark tunnel into which shooters were sent to engage targets. Is that the only time that device/set was used in Richmond? I saw scaffolding used on numerous occasions that we have never seen around here too.

The sliding targets were also used in the 2012 State Championship. It seems the local shooters there have seen it quite a few times. Yes? We do not use shirts on targets but that is used at local clubs. I suppose such would create an advantage for local shooters too.

I am saying that I do not really care because running the gun is the same. I appreciate those that see an unfairness but it seems so miniscule to me. In my view, people would generally shoot better if they just focused on running the gun. Generally, around here we hope everyone who shoots has his/her personal best match ever.

Last year, the scissor stage that you found challenging at our Regional was totally new for all shooters here. The match director stated earlier in this thread that he had surprises and some evil props for us. Given that he makes most of these himself, there will surely be many surprises.

Last edited by Awedtone; 05-15-2013 at 11:55 AM..
Reason: (I have this habit of always leaving out a couple of dogs.)

The opportunity to practice stages prior to a match is an advantage. Knowledge of the course designs, especially if complete with distances and briefings, are an advantage.

Are you saying unpublished COF's prior to a match is a competitive advantage for staff, and publishing course designs prior to the event would be in the best interest of the sport?

If you are, I agree.

By the time the new book becomes official, IDPA will have fixed this wrong.

Finally all entered participants will be allowed to set up at a cover line and take the same look that AC's MD's CSO, SO, ASO, Stage designers, have enjoyed themselves while prohibiting all others. I wonder if a particular garage door stage at the Washington State IDPA Championship a few years back had anything to do with this rule?

The maximum number has been adjusted so there are 22 spots open as of today. The last day for early discounted registration is May 31st. After that, the registration fees rise to $70.00 until the end of registration on June 15, 2013.

I know some have been waiting to confirm work and other scheduling issues. There is room for you.

If the host club sets up and shoots the same stages as are going to used in a sanctioned match they gain a possible advantage. If someone is aware of the stage designs prior to the match ( the more info available like the course briefings and distances the more valuable the info) They have a potential advantage. How much of an advantage depends on how they use that info/experience. They will at least know what to expect and prepare for such as weak hand shooting, long distance, prone, timing on movers/swingers, kneeling, etc., to think otherwise is silly.

As to publish or not publish the stage designs is only a valid question if they are made available early enough and are provided with all the necessary information as discussed above. Then and only then is the potential there for balancing out the advantage.

Stages and props have got to be designed, built, and yes maybe even tested. People will complain if someone has seen or shot the stage previously, but people complain worse when a stage is put together and the angles don't work because it wasn't tested, same with the props.

Ya it would be cool though if designs were posted a couple days prior to IDPA matches.

In the 2010 State Match at 5 Dogs, they used a Texas Star. We never use that around here. Are you saying that their IDPA shooters never saw that before? And if they had, that they gained an unfair advantage? I guess so.

No. The Texas Star is a fairly common prop at USPSA matches, so it is not what I would consider specialized. But at the 2009 State Match in Richmond, we used a Texas Star passing through the edge of a window to simulate people's heads temporarily being visible in the window. This is what I consider a specialized setup, and it would have been inappropriate to use it in a local match in the few months prior to the State Match.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awedtone

In the 2009 Richmond Championship they used a sliding target that we do not use around here. The two sliding targets sled was probably shot at their matches. No?

Not at Richmond. That was a prop from Ukiah so I don't know if they used it or not prior to the state match.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awedtone

That championship also had a non-weighted dummy to drag about. Had that been used before?

Not what I would consider to be a specialized prop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awedtone

There was also a dark tunnel into which shooters were sent to engage targets. Is that the only time that device/set was used in Richmond?

Built specifically for the match in the days prior to the event. Used after the match, but not before.

Stages and props have got to be designed, built, and yes maybe even tested. People will complain if someone has seen or shot the stage previously, but people complain worse when a stage is put together and the angles don't work because it wasn't tested, same with the props.

Ya it would be cool though if designs were posted a couple days prior to IDPA matches.

The current draft of the new rulebook recommends that stage designs are posted at least two weeks before the match so that there isn't the inequity of some people knowing the stages in advance while others don't.

Having the stages published last year made the match more enjoyable for me. It gave me a chance to practice going prone without looking like a manatee beaching itself

The stages was posted last year online before the match.....for this match ?
Please post a link if it is done this year.
We got the stage book at early check in on Saturday afternoon and when we asked if we can watch the S.O. shoot or look at the stages we were told no.

Well . . . the ballast was pitched for the March GSSF match. Don't they frown on both rail lights and bayonets during matches? If I remember correctly, Logan shot something like a 1.74 on one string of the plates in this win.

We got the stage book at early check in on Saturday afternoon and when we asked if we can watch the S.O. shoot or look at the stages we were told no.

Extraneous people on the range during the S.O. walk-through/shoot is not desirable because there is no one to supervise visitors and it adds potential confusion. On Saturday, the volunteer S.O.s are first together for match briefings and there is a lot going on. The R.O.s have a long day because we also evaluate and tweak the stages to make them fair and efficient for all sized shooters. Barrels are often added and etc.

The S.O.s range in size from 65 to an undisclosed elevation. Some are even of a large girth (Wait a minute . . .) Heck, just arguing about whether one of the S.O.s meets the minimum height requirement takes quite a bit of time.

BTW, congratulations to Duane Young and Glenn Yemoto. They were selected as 2 of only 6 IDPA Safety Officer Instructors for the State of California under the new rules. Both will be at this match and both are members of the Safety First Shooting Association at River Oaks Range.

BTW, congratulations to Duane Young and Glenn Yemoto. They were selected as 2 of only 6 IDPA Safety Officer Instructors for the State of California under the new rules. Both will be at this match and both are members of the Safety First Shooting Association at River Oaks Range.

The time for registration is winding down. There are only 7 days left before late registration closes. As of yesterday, there were only 19 slots left. Some may be taken by those who have spoken up but whose forms have yet to be received. If you have sent registration but have not heard from the registrar, you may wish to check with him. Remember: You must get your registration form and money to the registrar so he can verify IDPA Classification, prepare your competitor packet, secure awards and set the squads.

I use an X300 on Unlimited class in GSSF and don't use weapon mounted lights for any other class.

I checked with Logan and he said that he also ran the X300 during that March GSSF competition (in Unlimited). His duty gun will be set up with a light so he is trying to use that set up. He started doing it a few matches ago.

I and another SO ran Logan's classifier this spring. I posted in another site that after his two runs of the classifier in 78 and some change, he ran the plates consistently sub 2 seconds with just the stock Glock that he used for the SSP classifier a few minutes earlier. We also tried to beat 1 second for Mozambiques at 5 yards. At that time I had just taken Rudy's 3 day High Speed Shooting class at Defensive Firearms Training. Logan can shoot.

I checked with Logan and he said that he also ran the X300 during that March GSSF competition (in Unlimited). His duty gun will be set up with a light so he is trying to use that set up. He started doing it a few matches ago.

I and another SO ran Logan's classifier this spring. I posted in another site that after his two runs of the classifier in 78 and some change, he ran the plates consistently sub 2 seconds with just the stock Glock that he used for the SSP classifier a few minutes earlier. We also tried to beat 1 second for Mozambiques at 5 yards. At that time I had just taken Rudy's 3 day High Speed Shooting class at Defensive Firearms Training. Logan can shoot.

Any competitor who would like to order extra sandwiches on Sunday's match is to contact Don Reponte. Tell him how many and what kind. If ordering up to 3, payment can be made at the time of registration. More than 3, prepayment must be made.

Only a few days left for registration. The available slots are dwindling.

There is one shooter who must compete from a wheelchair. If you know any classified IDPA shooters who are disabled, you may wish to let them know that accommodations will be made. As many may know, IDPA reaches out to disabled competitors to say, You are welcome. Our Regional extends the same sentiment.

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I am informed that registration closed and the match is full. Some folks are trying to postmark after the June 15th cut off but I am informed that such registrations are being returned. Please come out and watch or catch up with us for a regular match or other event. All energy is now focused on making a good match for the existing competitors. For those who didn't postmark in time, we appreciate your interest in the match.