[I've been in plenty of courthouses, including state, federal district, and
federal appeals in the last two weeks, and have never had to show ID. --Declan]
---
To: Declan McCullagh <declan@private>
cc: politech@private, BSteinhardt@private
Subject: Re: [Politech] ACLU's Barry Steinhardt on showing ID and "building
privacy" [priv]
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:55:05 -0700
From: John Gilmore <gnu@private>
The simple way to not show ID going into buildings is to not patronize
businesses that persist in making you enter ID-checking buildings.
This is what the free market is all about. I've rejected many
different businesses for exactly that reason. There was one parking
lot at the Embarcadero Center that insisted on "searching my trunk" if
I was going to park there. Needless to say, they never got a cent
from me, but they did get an earful.
At buildings which insist on ID, I refuse to show it. I phone the
business inside, and tell them that the building is refusing to let me
come in to do business with them. Meanwhile I'm hanging around in the
lobby, nagging the guards about why they thought that making people
show an ID was going to keep a plane from flying into the building,
making them nervous, and raising questions in the minds of the other
people entering the building. Usually the business I'm visiting sends
somebody down to "sign me in", which gets me in without an ID. (If
not I just leave.) And I make it an issue with the business, "Have
you objected to this policy? What was the response? What will you do
to pursue the issue?" If the answers are unsatisfactory (to me) then
I take my business elsewhere.
There was a big rash of this right after 9/11, but it died out within
a few months afterward in most places. We discovered, however, that
Oakland has a law requiring hotels to ask for ID, and letting cops
look over the ID records anytime they want. It was passed to try to
curb prostitution!!! Talk about hitting a fly with a sledgehammer...
and of course, it is not uniformly enforced.
When it comes to government buildings, different rules apply. You
often have no choice about whether to enter (e.g. to endure an IRS
audit, or to come to a courtroom to respond to a lawsuit). In those
cases I believe there are viable court challenges to any imposed ID
requirement.
John
---
Subject: [Fwd: [Politech] Jim Harper takes issue with need-new-laws views
on building privacy [priv]]
From: jason <jaegner@private>
To: Declan McCullagh <declan@private>
Date: 29 Sep 2003 21:59:37 -0400
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Jim makes a great point. Don't surrender your right to privacy in light
of the threat of terrorism.
We're the perfect target for terrorism because of the freedoms that
present a catch-22 situation for our publicly elected representatives:
How can you protect your constituents and preserve their
constitutionally guaranteed freedoms at the same time?
It's a tough question and history doesn't help as much as it does on
other issues. On one hand, one could argue that the 2nd Amendment is
enough to protect privacy and the general welfare of the public. On the
other hand, it could be argued that the former argument would plunge us
back into the Wild West.
At the end of the day, I think it all comes down to the willingness of
the people to engage in the process of our republic. In other words,
vote but don't vote one way because someone tells you to. Get involved,
understand the issues, and THEN vote.
Apathy is the enemy of democracy and capitalism is the enemy of a
republic. The success of our country has always been a result of the
balance between these ideological principles.
Hopefully, people haven't given up yet. I know I haven't. :)
--Jason
---
From: Majstoll@private
Message-ID: <a8.22e736e1.2caa5bb1@private>
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 00:08:17 EDT
Subject: Declaring War on Building ID Policies
To: declan@private
Declan - please share with your readers - Mike Stollenwerk:
Barry Steinhardt is right to ask for more rules on private use of data on
government IDs - government invented the IDs and ID numbers for government
transactions, and should have front loaded the law with a general
prohibition on non-governmental actor use of ID and ID numbers.
But Jim Harper of Privacilla.org makes a good point that individuals need
to stick up for their rights to refuse to carry or show ID or disclose
sensitive information.
US persons should start sticking up for their rights to refuse to carry or
show ID or disclose personal information generally - and make it personal
when you do it so everybody remembers you. I do this often -
see:
<http://www.privacyactivism.org/Item/139>http://www.privacyactivism.org/Item/139
where the New Yorker hotel threatens to call the Police Antiterrorism Squad
against me in an audio file because I failed to let the front desk copy a
photo-ID.
But also there are rules in force to use against building managers and
hotels demanding to see ID, or copy the data from them:
1. Some states prohibit the use of ID swiping machines - more should join
them.
2. MasterCard and VISA strictly prohibit merchants from demanding to see
additional ID when using your signed credit card - report violators at
<http://www.mastercard.com/cgi-bin/contactus.cgi?template=ContactUsMV&rgn=1>http://www.mastercard.com/cgi-bin/contactus.cgi?template=ContactUsMV&rgn=1.
3. Over a dozen states have laws against merchants recording personal
info. on credit card slips - in California, it is class actionable under
Civil Code Section 1747.8; and in New York, such practices violate New York
Law: "ARTICLE 29-A, Section 520-a 3. No person, firm, partnership or
corporation which accepts credit cards for the transaction of business
shall require the credit card
holder to write on the credit card transaction form, nor shall it
write or cause to be written on such form, any personal identification
information, including but not limited to the credit card holder`s
address or telephone number, that is not required by the credit card
issuer to complete the credit card transaction; provided, however,
that the credit card holder`s address and telephone number may be
required on such form where (i) such information is necessary for
shipping, delivery or installation of purchased merchandise or for
special orders; (ii) authorization from the credit card issuer as to
the availability of credit is not required by the issuer to complete the
credit card transaction; or (iii) the person, firm, partnership or
corporation processes credit card transactions by mailing transaction
forms to a designated bankcard center for settlement. ..
6. Whenever there shall be a violation of this section an
application may be made by the attorney general in the name of the
people of the state of New York to a court or justice having
jurisdiction by a special proceeding to issue an injunction, and upon
notice to the defendant of not less than five days, to enjoin and
restrain the continuance of such violation; and if it shall appear to
the satisfaction of the court or justice that the defendant has, in
fact, violated this section, an injunction may be issued by the court
or justice, enjoining and restraining any further violations, without
requiring proof that any person has, in fact, been injured or damaged
thereby. In any such proceeding, the court may make allowances to the
attorney general as provided in paragraph six of subdivision (a) of
section eighty-three hundred three of the civil practice law and
rules, and direct restitution. In connection with any such proposed
application the attorney general is authorized to take proof and make a
determination of the relevant facts and to issue subpoenas in
accordance with the civil practice law and rules."
But in the end, ending silly ID checks will require that people stop
carrying them and/or refuse to show them. Most buildings will have
procedures for this case, requiring tenants to come down to the lobby and
escort folks - do this a few hundred times a day and the ID checks will go
away. Airports too can be re-opened for the public again as well - it will
take some lawsuits and protesters, but it can be done.
Mike S.
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