Neobie,Congratulations on your 500th post! It's a major accomplishment because your posts have a high quality density.

I want to debate your conclusion that the last 5 teams stayed at Sheremetyevo and left on the 910am arriving flight. With a half hour to get the camera/sound equipment off and set up and one hour minimum to get to the dam, they would be there no sooner than 1040am on your scenario. Mark/Michael would have been searching for the house or working at the Construct since before 0900am so that's about 100 minutes. I cannot believe that on a DETOUR they would not have finished up and found the house on their own long before anyone else arrived. Also, the fact that there is daylight as the second plane was landing does not rule out a 645am arrival. Sunrise was apparently 1 hour 24 minutes later. This is not an odds-on bet but it is not impossible.

How do you know that those 5 teams took SU781? Until some questioner hears from Amanda/Kris, there is probably no way to know for sure.

I think your explanation of what happened at Sheremetyevo is plausible, but here is the amount of time teams arriving there had to connect if arrived on time:

Sofia 4.5 hoursFrankfurt 1.75 hoursMunich 2.5 hoursIstanbul 3.5 hours

Except for Frankfurt, that's ample time for customs, transfers and security.

Amanda: Yeah, well first of all we missed the flights. In Russia apparently it takes three hours to go through customs and we weren't expecting that. We had an hour-and-a-half gap to go through customs and we thought that would be plenty of time, and it wasn't. However as you noticed we weren't the only team to make that mistake. Everyone except for three teams missed the flight. So that was the first thing that put us behind.

Kris: When we were in Transylvania we were at the airport and there was tons of different flights to choose from, and it was kinda our job to pick and choose which flight we wanted, and we decided to connect through Frankfurt because we thought it was kind of a busier airport. We thought we'd get through it a lot quicker and not get held up, but it turns out that we didn't time the timing in Russia right, so it put us in the back of the pack.

Reality TV World: You said that the delay on the flight was caused by customs?

Amanda: Yes.

Kris: Yeah, in Russia.

Reality TV World: Did you even come close to making the connecting flight out of Moscow?

Kris: Well we were sitting in this little waiting room for hours on end just looking at our clocks, because we were there an hour-and-a-half before our flight was supposed to leave so we thought we were gonna be okay. It just ended up taking a really long time. And we ended up seeing all the other teams there and we were all bummed out, we were like "Oh gosh, this sucks we kinda got screwed."

Reality TV World: How far behind that first 5:40AM arrival flight was the one that you and the other four teams ended up flying on?

Kris: It was about four hours difference.

Amanda: Yeah, three or four hours difference. We knew that the three teams would be the first ones were in good shape.

Quote

Reality TV World: Do you know how far behind [Mark and Michael Munoz] you finished?

It's time to discover how teams are going to get from Delhi Airport to those camels. In a separate post I presented the choice of Jaisalmer and Bikaner as the major camel centers in India. That does not mean that camels could not have been staged anywhere in India that has sand (quite a bit), but it is logical to expect that either Jaisalmer or Bikaner was chosen. So how do you get there from Delhi. It is going to take a while since neither place is large enough to warrant an airport. They are the end of separate major train lines, but will take a while to reach there.

So let's start out of Delhi and see how we do. We can take a through train from Delhi all the way to Jaisalmer:dep. Delhi main train station 1740 arrive Jaisalmer 1100 (total time of 17 1/4 hours).

You can take a train from Delhi to Jodhpur , dep. 2045 arr. 0800, and then switch to a train from Jodhpur to Bikaner dep. 1005 1600 (total time of 19 1/4 hours).

Or you can take the daily nonstop flight from Delhi to Jodhpur DEL JDH 1210 1330 and switch to a train to get to Bikaner dep. 1345 arr. 2120 (total time of 9 hours) or to Jaisalmer dep. 1520 arr. 0940 (total time of 21.5 hours).

Those are the major options. There are flights that get into Jodhpur slightly earlier if you leave a lot earlier, but why bother? You can't get to Jodhpur or Jaisalmer any faster.

Now, the arrival into Delhi flying from Novosibirsk, Moscow and Almaty is at 2115. That means that both evening trains to Jodhpur are missed. That makes it likely that teams would fly from Delhi to Jodphpur as shown above.

To get from Jodhpur to Phuket, here is the basic combination(there are several variants of it):

It's time to discover how teams are going to get from Delhi Airport to those camels. In a separate post I presented the choice of Jaisalmer and Bikaner as the major camel centers in India. That does not mean that camels could not have been staged anywhere in India that has sand (quite a bit), but it is logical to expect that either Jaisalmer or Bikaner was chosen. So how do you get there from Delhi. It is going to take a while since neither place is large enough to warrant an airport. They are the end of separate major train lines, but will take a while to reach there.

So let's start out of Delhi and see how we do. We can take a through train from Delhi all the way to Jaisalmer:dep. Delhi main train station 1740 arrive Jaisalmer 1100 (total time of 17 1/4 hours).

You can take a train from Delhi to Jodhpur , dep. 2045 arr. 0800, and then switch to a train from Jodhpur to Bikaner dep. 1005 1600 (total time of 19 1/4 hours).

Or you can take the daily nonstop flight from Delhi to Jodhpur DEL JDH 1210 1330 and switch to a train to get to Bikaner dep. 1345 arr. 2120 (total time of 9 hours) or to Jaisalmer dep. 1520 arr. 0940 (total time of 21.5 hours).

Those are the major options. There are flights that get into Jodhpur slightly earlier if you leave a lot earlier, but why bother? You can't get to Jodhpur or Jaisalmer any faster.

Now, the arrival into Delhi flying from Novosibirsk, Moscow and Almaty is at 2115. That means that both evening trains to Jodhpur are missed. That makes it likely that teams would fly from Delhi to Jodphpur as shown above.

To get from Jodhpur to Phuket, here is the basic combination(there are several variants of it):

"Our fans are pretty good. They don't give away too much. Sometimes people love dropping spoilers, but our fans are good. They tend to do it in such a way that doesn't ruin it for fans who don't want to know."--Phil Keoghan

So... Krasnoyarsk was a 20 to 24 hour Pit Stop? At the train station, Mel/Mike talk about Mark/Michael using up all their money "yesterday", so Krasnoyarsk probably didn't get extended by more than a day.

Can anyone find the correct train this episode? Even when I look at old schedules (the schedule just changed the day before our train) there doesn't seem to be a train departing at 10.26pm. There's a 011U (2336-1238) though. I'm also seeing other trains leaving throughout the day - what's up with that?

Quote from: CBS Preview

Fly to "the Pink City" in India!

Sounds like Jaipur's the first (and probably only) stop in India, huh? Haven't seen any night shots yet, so I'd say the entire leg takes place on the 13th? That would give us an extended Pit Stop in Novosibirsk that we should look out for, presumably because it's difficult to get Phil ahead otherwise...

I think it'd be a pretty straight-forward route if teams leave on the 12th after a 36h Pit Stop. Expect complete bunching.SU1440 to Moscow SVO: 1055-1210, or any earlier flightsSU533 to Delhi: 1620-00509W709 to Jaipur: 0545-0630, or the other flights Apskip also has

« Last Edit: March 16, 2009, 06:07:40 AM by Neobie »

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So... Krasnoyarsk was a 20 to 24 hour Pit Stop? At the train station, Mel/Mike talk about Mark/Michael using up all their money "yesterday", so Krasnoyarsk probably didn't get extended by more than a day.

Can anyone find the correct train this episode? Even when I look at old schedules (the schedule just changed the day before our train) there doesn't seem to be a train departing at 10.26pm. There's a 011U (2336-1238) though. I'm also seeing other trains leaving throughout the day - what's up with that?

Quote from: CBS Preview

Fly to "the Pink City" in India!

Sounds like Jaipur's the first (and probably only) stop in India, huh? Haven't seen any night shots yet, so I'd say the entire leg takes place on the 13th? That would give us an extended Pit Stop in Novosibirsk that we should look out for, presumably because it's difficult to get Phil ahead otherwise...

I think it'd be a pretty straight-forward route if teams leave on the 12th after a 36h Pit Stop. Expect complete bunching.SU1440 to Moscow SVO: 1055-1210, or any earlier flightsSU533 to Delhi: 1620-00509W709 to Jaipur: 0545-0630, or the other flights Apskip also has

Well that itinerary gives them 4 hours 10 minutes to get from SVO T-1 to SVO T-2 and clear exit secruity/immigration/customs.

schedule for good train (taken by Brad/Victoria and lagging teams get there in time to take it):dep. Locarno 1042 arr. Domodossola 1230dep. Domodossola 1248 arr. Spiez 1353dep. Spiez 1403 arr. Interlaken West 1423 total trip is 4 hours train;other teams go earlier and get there slightly earlier(except for Christie/Jodi who get a circuitous route 1 1/4 hours hours earlier but arrive later or teams that are behind Brad/Victoria);

then self-drive less than an hour to RuhpoldingTasks in Raushberg near Ruhpolding parasailing, 25 mile drive to Schnoau am Kongisee for tasks, then Evening Extedned 18 hour Pit stop in Salzburg at Schloss Hellbrunn

Nov. 4 begin leg 3;Salzburg to Bucharest starts with driving to Alzburg rail station, getting on a train to Munich and switching there to an airport train. The schedules from Salzburg all the way to MUchich Flughafen (on average once per hour) are:

1103 13171152 14171303 15261314 15371352 15571441 16571552 17571617 1827Flight choices depend on arrival at Munich Airport. Tammy/Victor initially get LH3480 1525 1825 but then it comes back with a mechanical problem. RO312 1645 1945 is taken by 3 teams.LH3424 2130 0025+1 is taken by everyone else except Brad/VictoriaBrad/Victoria attempt to get 15 minutes ahead of the alst group by going MUC AMS and AMS OTP but delays on the flight into Amsterdam doom them to not departing until the KLM nonstop the next morning and not arriving into Bucharest until after 1pm.

then tasks in Beijing and start TBC or NELextended pit stop (note: this may also be one later later after next leg)

Nov. 20 pitstop continues

Nov. 21leg 11 startstaskspitstop

Nov. 22leg 12 return from Beijing to U.S. for Finish Line in Hawaii via TokyoPEK NRT on Air China has several choices:CA6651/NH956 0845 1305CA925 0930 1350CA167 1350 1750

Continuing on from Tokyo-Narita to Honolulu (NRT to HNL), there are 9 choices with departures between 645pm and 10pm. With the 6 hours 45 minute flying team and 5 hour time difference, these flights arrive HNL 0630 to 0950. The most logical choice to me would be UA880 NRT HNL 1925 0710+1. All these are same day due to crossing the International Date Line.

Finish Line on Maui, so teams will take a 36 or 37 minute flight Honolulu to Kahului. There is at least one every hour from 5am to 9pm and several in some hours.tasksFinish Line

I have had a difficult time reconciling the arrival time in Novosibirsk. Thanks to the latest newsletter by Edward Hasbrouck, I think I now have it straight. The problem is that I could not find a 2226 departure train in the TransSiberian Railway schedule. With airlines schedules and most train schedules, local time is used. However, the TransSiberian Railway stays on Moscow time. So 2026 is really 1826 Moscow time, when there is a train departure. It arrives Novosibirsk at 0647 Moscow time, which is 947am local time. That is a 12 hour 21 minute run, among the fastest trains on that route.

To make a rough estimate of what that means for episode 5 timing in Novosibirsk:

Arrive Novosibirsk 0947Go across town to clue with DETOUR, taking maybe 15 minutesRussian Brides would require a 20 minute self-drive, then a 10 minute(if done correctly) drive to the church, then a 20 minute self-drive back to the Bioblioteka orRussian Snowplow would require a 10 minute delf-drive, then maybe 20 minutes for both teammates to complete, then 20 minutes self-drive back to the BibliotekaTo be ready for the run took 10 minutes and to do it no more than 10 minutesTo find Phil inside the State Academy, 5 minutesI estimate total time of 70 minutes using either DETOUR (unless a team went to the wrong church or had navigational difficulties)

Maybe, despite what the producers say (what blizzard?), it wasn't a Trans-Sib train. I found a Russian Rail schedule (train 085, I used a Wednesday) that matches the times you posted. Also, according to this site, you have to book TS in advance, but RussianRail tickets can be purchased at any rail counter.

The flight information indicated that after the 0700 flight OVB to SVO, there was "a flight to Delhi". There were 2 ways to do this. One is the nonstop flight SVO DEL SU533 1620 0050 that Neobie proposed. What I have shown for Nov. 12 but not 11 is this combination through Almaty:KC872 SVO ALA 0920 1645KC907 ALA DEL 1805 2115This one gets teams to Delhi about 3.5 hours earlier so it is what I would do in the same situation.

I found the mandate that teams must fly through Moscow a bit unusual, as that is typically done for first episodes only.

According to the Insider videos (thanks TARAsiaFan!), Tammy/Victor and Mel/Mike worked together transferring from one Moscow airport to another. One was in the far south (Domodedovo; there are no flights to Vnukovo), and one was in the north (Sheremetyevo). Victor says they had 5 hours to make the transfer.

This fits nicely with the following schedule, which involves three separate flights from Novosibirsk to Moscow:

Jaime/Cara, Margie/Luke, who are "consoling" Tammy/Victor at the Novosibirsk airportSU810 to Sheremetyevo Intl Airport, Moscow: 0700-0815

Mark/Michael, Jennifer/LaKisha, Jodi/ChristieSU1440 to Sheremetyevo Intl Airport, Moscow: 1055-1210 (this is the next and only remaining flight that can make the Delhi direct)

EverybodySU533 to Delhi Intl Airport, India: 1620-0050

Tammy/Victor and Mel/Mike were trying to avoid the Domestic<>International transfer in Sheremetyevo! Was this a wise decision?

Hmm, teams were seen on a morning 15th flight from Bangkok to Phuket, no? If teams arrived in Jaipur on the 13th and checked out early the next morning, wouldn't they have too much time to be stuck in Bangkok? I mean, examples could be:

Do we have a mandatory "travel to Phuket via Delhi", or do we have a slightly-extended Pit Stop again?

Here's one way Phil could escape after eliminating Jodi/Christie on the 13th:IC895 to Delhi: 1815-1855TG316 to Bangkok: 0005-0535TG203 to Phuket: 0730-0850, giving him a day over the racers

Phil doesn't need a 36-hour Pit Stop to get ahead, unlike in the previous leg. Between Jaipur and Novosibirsk, it's still likely Russia was the extended Pit Stop. Now we just need to look for direct evidence!

« Last Edit: March 23, 2009, 06:54:55 AM by Neobie »

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Given the release times there is no reason that all 7 teams should not have been on SU810 OVB SVO 0700 0815. It looks to me that either that was not available or Tammy/Victor made a mistake in booking to Domodedovo airport for a flight leaving earlier U6099 OVB DME 0640 0755. However Tammy/Victor if for some reason they could not get on SU810 should have waited for SU1440 OVB SVO 1055 1210. Flights to Domodedovo in between were:

Rewatched the episode, and Victor whispers "ten" when Margie asks him what time their flight leaves (while Jaime blurts out a louder "seven"). The earlier flights must have been sold out.

Is there any reason to believe that not all teams arrived in Phuket on the same flight? We have Tammy/Victor and Mike/Mel (coincidentally the first two teams) on the 7.30am Bangkok flight, but they're nowhere to seen with LaKisha/Jennifer, Cara/Jaime and Michael/Mark at Phuket Zoo (which, if it's the monkey, is our first location).

And if the leg starts at 8.50am when the Bangkok flight lands, would teams take so long as to be stuck at the rickshaws at 4 in the afternoon?

For comparison, non-eliminated teams took 1h33 to 3h12 on the Locarno half-leg and 1h1 to 1h27 on the Interlaken half-leg.The Munich-Salzburg long distance leg took 5h58 to 9h36.The Bran half-leg took 1h57 to 4h38.The Novosibirsk leg took 2h31 to 5h17.

« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 12:26:26 AM by Neobie »

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All of these land within a half-hour of when a 0730 deaprture would, so it's not a big deal.

I have taken another look at my listings for Jaipur to Phuket via either Delhi and Bangkok or Mumbai and Bangkok plus the one from Mumbai to Sinagpore. The impact of all reasonable possilbities is whown here:

Which flight is best depends on when a team can depart from Jaipur Airport. If released early in the morning, then they could arrive Phuket between 1940 and 2035. If they have to wait until the evening, then then will arrive Phuket bewteen 0840 and 0935.

My prediction is that they will be released in Jaipur after a 12 hour pit stop before midnight. The first flights they can get ar shown on top above, but probably some teams are forced onto the evening flights. The Hours of Operation at the Phuket Zoo, which is open from 0830 to 1800. So the teams arriving at 0840 or 0935 will be behind at least one to two hours.

"Our fans are pretty good. They don't give away too much. Sometimes people love dropping spoilers, but our fans are good. They tend to do it in such a way that doesn't ruin it for fans who don't want to know."--Phil Keoghan

Yup, it could be off by 10 minutes, but since I said that it hardly matters why should anyone care? The key is what actually happened. On November 15 TG203 departed Bangkok at 736am and arrived late in Phhuket at 858am. Again, well within that 30 minute window that I mentioned. I thank Neobie for the technique needed to find that information.

On November 13(we don't know that for sure but I believe it is correct)

The source said Nov 15, not 13?

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"Our fans are pretty good. They don't give away too much. Sometimes people love dropping spoilers, but our fans are good. They tend to do it in such a way that doesn't ruin it for fans who don't want to know."--Phil Keoghan

The Timeline says(and has for weeks if not months) that they arrive in Phuket the morning of Nov. 15, so I picked that out of my memory incorrectly and made the statement "Nov. 13 ... I believe is correct"(it was the date of arrival into Jaipur, not Phuket). So you are correct on that. The departure and arrival times have been corrected above, but again it's a bit of why bother since they are only a few minutes different. What does matter is if any team made it in the night before, which gives them a one to two hour edge given the Phuket Zoo hours of operation. That is what we need to know and don't.

Well, if T/V and Mel/M were teams 1 and 2 in India, and that is the flight they are on, isn't it relatively safe to say that that most likely represents the first available flight?

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"Our fans are pretty good. They don't give away too much. Sometimes people love dropping spoilers, but our fans are good. They tend to do it in such a way that doesn't ruin it for fans who don't want to know."--Phil Keoghan

Here's one flight combination that the lead teams missed:IX195 to Dubai: 1040-1220, KL167 to Singapore: 1635-0350, MI750 to Phuket 0710-0755

Even if TPTB mandates a connection in Delhi, teams (assuming a 12-hour Pit Stop) still have plenty of time for:G8111 to Delhi: 0855-0935, MH185 to Kuala Lumpur: 1220-2010, MH609 to Singapore: 2245-2340, MI750 to Phuket 0710-0755

With the morning sun still shining when Tammy/Victor check in, I suppose we'd be having something along the lines of a 24-hour Pit Stop?

Phil doesn't need the extra time, he arrived in Phuket on the morning of the 14th (after an overnight Delhi-Bangkok flight). I think production is deliberately trying to avoid Hours of Operation bunching! Which still doesn't explain the very strange Salzburg extension...

« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 02:32:31 PM by Neobie »

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