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Regarding Zodac and Wun-Dar: Zodac becoming a cosmic guardian does not have to happen in the last 100 years, actually if you put the bios into a timeline it seems highly unlikely, because we know

A) the Elders made a secret bargain with Overlords of the Timeless Dimension of Trolla that one member of the Elders has to join the Cosmic Enforcers in order to being allowed to keep the Sword of He on Eternia. So, Zodac has to become a cosmic guardian (and retain his physical form) before the appearance of Vikor, who battled the remaining Snake Men.

B) Zodak took the place of Zodac in the Council when Zodac left Eternia. And only after that he trapped King-Hiss. So unless you assume the Snake-Men were banished just 100 years ago ...

I actually thought somebody was doing an Emiliano impression at first and thought "hey, that's pretty spot on". And then it turns out it actually was Emiliano! It's so good to have our man from Sicily back again.

For the record, I really hope the theory that Mattel is planning to make 200X variants is true. At least that way we'd have a hope of someday getting 200X heads for figures that already missed out or are going to be sold without one. We might even get some extra tooling on the variants for more (classicized) 200X design elements.

But how many folks here bought 2 of each figure with multiple heads just so they could display one of each?

True, myself being one of them.

But, I'm talking about the fans who don't buy an extra figure for the sole purpose of displaying both heads. Those are the fans that are getting slightly "screwed" imo. I think just doing the 200x head packs are a much better solution for "all" fans because:

1) all the non-200x fans/fans that don't buy an extra figure to display both looks, will get (for instance) an extra weapon included with the standard figures that they can actually equip onto the figure as opposed to an extra head that will just sit to the side,

and 2) all those 200x fans will buy the 200x head packs, plus they're gonna get that one extra weapon with the standard figures, and Mattel is still gonna be able to sell them a second figure of the corresponding head-pack heads, to those fans that will want to display both looks, anyway, nothing changes in terms of sales from those who buy doubles of the figures to display both looks.

The only difference is now, the fans who didn't buy a second figure to display both looks, will now have an extra weapon/accesssory in place of a useless second head, plus they will now have the "option" of still getting that second head through a head-pack.

And the fans who always would buy a second figure to display both looks, will essentially, instead of ending up with 2 bodies and 4 heads, with 2 of those heads being useless, will now have extra accessories that "both" figures can "always" be equipped with, if they so choose, plus those fans too, will now have the "option" of still getting those second heads through a head-pack, and of course will also still be buying a second figure to display that head, but now they won't be stuck with 2 useless heads out of the 4 total (believe me, I know, cause I have many of them.)

Originally Posted by MegaGearMax

Ask yourself, isn't this the same thing with the Weapon's Paks? That there are more weapons that aren't getting displayed?

But that's just it, I just think the head packs are a better solution for "all" fans, it's a "win-win." The fans who don't want the extra weapons don't have to buy the weapons packs, and the fans who don't want the extra heads, won't have to buy the head-packs.

And as for the supposed "excessive" extra weapons/accessories already being included with the standard figures? Well heck, I'd be fine if they relegated those too, to another separate weapons pack, and just included new mini-comics with the figures instead.

val - im very interested to hear about this lubic related surprise we have coming up?!

penny - as an englishman, i have to say that those accents were absolutely incredibly accurate! ... you could, without a doubt, pass for an english lady! ... spot on ... you should try a yorkshire or geordie accent next! we have loads of different twangs and dialects over here! ...

eamon - i am in agreement about your views on the clamp champ figure, the actual toy clamp was always awkward to handle ... but i think he is an interesting character nontheless, just not one of my favourite toys ...

Last edited by tmc1984; December 9, 2010 at 06:59pm.

''He-Man lives and possesses that key, I must possess all or I possess nothing!'' (Skeletor, 1987)

The orginal He-Man has a more masculine face, I´ve also to mention, that the distance between nose and mouth is a little bit more than the MOTUC Version, which gives the vintage version a more Hulk-Look...

While a like a bit more of the boyish looks on He-Man,
I do like that first He-Man in there more than the other original He-Man's in your JPG.
That one looks like a better casting.
But that 3rd one looks ugly IMO.

I'm not sure if it actually is a different casting, as maybe it's the contrast, or lighting, or what, but it still looks better.
I know it's a subtle thing, but it stands out to me.

We're talking about Mattel's nuking of extra 200x inspired heads and of 200x inspired styling elements on a MOTUC figure.
It's one He-Man in one package for MOTUC.

Even Scott's example was of Count Marzo and He-Man being visually confusing against each other, which doesn't hold water I'm sad to say.
No one proposed that you have two separate He-Man figures at the exact same time with two different looks, both in the same type of packaging with the exact same name.

Like we talked about in the show, I can't see any real reason not to do extra 200x heads and elements unless it's just to save money or because someone at Mattel is scared of or hates 200x.

Like Neutro said, this is an Adult Collectors line anyway. The example of why they heads can't be included because of an illogical hypothetical situation at retail for a line that hasn't gone to retail outside of a few 2-packs, doesn't fly as far as I'm concerned.

I don't agree. You talk like it's either or.
But how many folks here bought 2 of each figure with multiple heads just so they could display one of each?

You indirectly bring up a point we didn't cover on the show. It's actually better for Mattel to DO the extra heads because it increases sales quantities of those figures.
A number of people will buy more than one on purpose just to be able to display both heads.
That's extra sales of an entire figure for Mattel thanks to a relatively minimal extra production cost.

And if not, like we said on the show, there's always the option of an Accessory Head Pack full of 200x heads that Mattel can sell for extra cash.
Or to release a 200x variant as Danielle described.

In my heart, I think Scott is fighting the good fight for us fans.
And I really hope he can convince upper management to reverse their position on this.

Probably the same reason the two main American accents other countries do are the Jewish New Yorker or Southern Drawl.

I think you have to live in the country to hear the subtleties between various accents.

Please don't think I agree with what they decided. I totally agree with you that as a collectors line they really should not spare any expenses to give "collectors" what they would like. 200X accessories will always be included as evident with Sy-Klone, but heads such as Grizzlor's shuld be allowed when it really suits a particular character. And yes this doesn't make sense that we could possibly get one with Stinkor almost immediately after we were told "no more 200X Style heads".

If Mattel is worried about Classics vs. 200X heads,
they should just put the head that they feel comfortable with
on the figure while its in the bubble and have a 200X head
hidden somewhere in the packaging. This way everyone is
happy. Mom and Dad won't be confused and the collectors
now have an option.

Maybe the vintage fans who don't care about such things wouldn't have noticed....

...but the 200X fans most definitely WOULD. After all, fans DID notice Roboto, King Hsss and Buzz-Off didn't have any 200X heads a month before Toyguru made the announcement in September.

While 200x is my favorite He-man era & figure line, it's really not that important to include every details of it in this line.

And yes people for the most part wouldn't have noticed it slowly disappearing. Some will always complain "wah I didn't get the certain extra head I wanted!" But there are so few characters left that have unique 200x designs, it hardly matters.

And anyways, they haven't stopped including it. Grizzlor still had 200x influence, Buzz-off has 200x, Sy-clone has 200x... the line is still a combo of all He-man eras.

@JVS3
I think what TG and upper management are talking about is if they had 2 looks for figures say a MOTU Classics line and say a 200X Classics line, a mother or possible father buying these figures would be confused if their child said: "I WANNA HE-MAN figure!! Waaah waaah!" Mommy/daddy go to the store and see 2 completely different looking He-Man figures both the standard version not some variant, but one looks (I use this term loosely) "anime-ish" and another looks like the classic "Filmationesque" or classic toy. Which one does the kid want? That's what I think he was referring to. Kinda like the Avatar figures - 3 3/4" and 6" figures - 2 distinct looks, but which one does the kid want? Most parents who don't care or know much about toys, really don't understand the difference other than price tags.

That is the only think I can think of. Plus the when the "suits" found out about all the extra tooling that the 4H did they saw all that $ going away and had a hissy fit and said stop it. This over budgeting stuff needs to stop. Plus I'm still thinking that they (mattel) are still haunted by the figure ratio feasco.

Nice show. Thanks guys and gal. or whatever the proper word is that I should use.

Now what I don't understand if the 2000 style is gone then why, for example, the big red ring on Sy-Klone? What am I missing? Please advise.

When I hear "beserker" I think of the Beserker pirates from Thundercats and "hear" one of them say beserkers. beserkers.

Originally Posted by Berserker79

I agree to Eamon 100% about the He-Man face...

The orginal He-Man has a more masculine face, I´ve also to mention, that the distance between nose and mouth is a little bit more than the MOTUC Version, which gives the vintage version a more Hulk-Look...

Yeah, it seems like the answers to the 200x-style in the figures go in a circle like a Snakeman eating his tail.

We ask: Why can't we have 200x inspired heads?

They answer: Because it would cause "Brand confusion" on store aisles for kids and parents buying them at retail

Then we ask: Then why don't you release these figures at normal retail?

They answer: Because this type of figure no longer sells well enough at retail.

So which is it? An adult collector niche line where multiple heads and "styles" are in no way confusing to the collectors buying them online? Or a retail oriented line that needs to maintain a certain "style" to prevent confusion as to what figures people are buying. (I.E.- Star wars Clone Wars vs. Star Wars OT lines.)

It's either one or the other, but they are treating it both ways. In the end, they either:

A. Want to cut costs by reducing the alternate heads, (because we know they still integrate the 200x style- just look at Sy-clone and his big back ring) and they just won't come out and say that is why. Or:

B. What you all said on the podcast, some person(s) at Mattel are terrified of association with the 200x line and are trying to eliminate as much 200x-influenced designs as possible. (Because we all know the design of the 200x series was it's failure, not ridiculous case-packing....)

I'm not mad or upset, but I just want to be treated like an "adult collector" and given valid reasons (that make sense) as to why something is a certain way. If they announce something they intend to do, (like no more 200x heads) I want a reason why that makes sense. Otherwise don't announce it if your reason why you are doing it causes confusion.

And this is not in any way against Toy Guru or anyone else in specific, I know they are just repeating what they are told. I know Toy Guru goes above and beyond for MOTUC, making it as great as possible, and cares about it just as much as we all do, and I appreciate that.

For these problems, I'm sure the reasons why, and the answers given as to why, are crafted by the money men and execs whose bottom line is profit and keeping a baseline consumer group.

And yes people for the most part wouldn't have noticed it slowly disappearing.

Gotta disagree.

If anything MOTUC was starting to incorporate the mixture between eras much better. At first (From He-Man to Zodac) it started out almost exclusively vintage. Later, around summer 2009 (Hordak to Carnivus), the line became more of the mixture that fans liked, with new stuff as well as 200X things. Since October, we're back to almost all vintage, with NO new stuff and 200X elements scaled way back. I'd say the fans have definitely noticed.

You see, some of us enjoyed those elements. Anything to make these figures not be the old figures that we already have. We want to see new innovations and ideas on old favorites or have innovations and ideas from other eras survive onto these classic beefy bodies, instead of being forgotten.

Some will always complain "wah I didn't get the certain extra head I wanted!" But there are so few characters left that have unique 200x designs, it hardly matters.

And anyways, they haven't stopped including it. Grizzlor still had 200x influence, Buzz-off has 200x, Sy-clone has 200x... the line is still a combo of all He-man eras.

Without those alternate heads, I think there's something off about mixing the looks. Vintage Grizzlor was a savage beast, while 200X Grizzlor was a well armed hunter. Now we have a savage beast with alot of weapons. Sy-Klone...The Big Red Ring looks better with the 200X head than it does with the vintage head. I see MOTUC Sy-Klone and want to take his BRR off.

I think they need that certain head to become that particular character. Imagine if Sy-Klone came with his Anwat Gar head as the sole head and his BRR wasn't removable? That wouldn't be Sy-Klone to alot of fans.

...but now they won't be stuck with 2 useless heads out of the 4 total (believe me, I know, cause I have many of them.)

Ok wait, I just realized that these fans would still be left with 1 useless head out of 1x head-pack and 2x the same figure. Still it's better than 2 useless heads out of 4 though, I suppose. Hmmm...

Still, I do understand where Mattel/TG stands regarding sticking to one style for the classics line, though. And honestly, I think the 200x heads just look better on the 200x figures, for the most part. At first, I thought I really liked the second 200x head for Whiplash, for instance, but after looking at him after a while, I realized that for some reason that head just looks out of place on the classics figure, like it's too big, or something. I don't know. What do I know anyway?

Collecting 200x

When I first started collecting Classics, I started with He-Man, Skeletor and Teela with the idea of collecting just the original 8 I had as a kid. When I noticed that they were making Zodak AND Zodac, I decided to display 3 shelves of figures. One with a filmation bent (TRU He-Man, Orko, MAA with the stache), A shelf for the OG or "toyline canon". (He-Man with axe, Teela with snake armor, MAA without stache, Merman with OG head, etc) and a 200x shelf with characters like Zodak, He-Man with the Techno sword, Teela with the snake staff, etc). As the changes from Hasbro developed I found myself dropping this plan due to foreseeable frustration trying to complete a 200x shelf. That frustrates me that Mattel is actively making that difficult if not impossible. Giving me some characters that are directly 200x but not letting me create a cohesive display because we can't get something as simple as a longer haired He-Man with a pouch. So now I'm just kinda collecting with no larger display in mind. And that's a bit disappointing.

I actually thought somebody was doing an Emiliano impression at first and thought "hey, that's pretty spot on". And then it turns out it actually was Emiliano! It's so good to have our man from Sicily back again.

Thats what I thought as well, I thought it was Fakor Emiliano. Great to hear Emiliano back.

I think Val has sit nail on head with the 200x thing someone in management just doesn’t like 200x or is just scared of it due to the performance of the 200x line. Like you say they need to realize the rules and strategy for a kids retail line is different to a adult collectors on-line line.

I would love a head pack, I really want that 200x Grizzlor head, I would have preferred that over the 200x Whiplash head.

I think Val has sit nail on head with the 200x thing someone in management just doesn’t like 200x or is just scared of it due to the performance of the 200x line. Like you say they need to realize the rules and strategy for a kids retail line is different to a adult collectors on-line line.

I think Val is right. Someone who is NOW a higher up must have nearly been fired THEN because of the whole Mattel mismanagement of 200X. He probably is reminded of the whole affair each time 200X is brought up.

All of this is simply Mattel's refusal to admit they screwed up at retail in the first place. Back then, Mattel couldn't sell Batman and Harry Potter, two strong franchises today, much less He-Man. Not to mention clogging pegs with Jor-El and Superman 2 paks, Speed Racer and Ras' Al Ghul 2000.

The orginal He-Man has a more masculine face, I´ve also to mention, that the distance between nose and mouth is a little bit more than the MOTUC Version, which gives the vintage version a more Hulk-Look...

Let me see if I can clear up this confusion about "no 200X" in the online MOTUC line.

As I said on the show last week, this was done for a branding purpose. Eamon is correct in his extrapolation.

There is no "VP who hates or was burned by 200X". If anything, one of the greatest successes of the 200X line was the collector interest, so of course we know collectors loved this line. Heck, the line was so big with collectors that unarticulated figures sold after the line ended.

But collectors who want the MOTUC line to be 200X are going to be dissapointed. This is NOT the 200X line continued. Do we think there are collectors who would support a 200X continuation line, sure! But it is not what we are doing right now.

To move MOTU as a brand forward, it is important to have one cohesive look for characters right now. The 200X redesigns just don't work for that. As I've said before, there is no reason we can't do 200X heads down the road (and I have said this), they are just retired from the current online MOTUC line.

Honestly, I think adding in 200X heads as a future box set or variant is a great way to refresh some characters down the road. In a movie year if this line were to go to retail that could possibly be one of many ways we might change around the original releases. Who knows?

But I hope this will put a cork in the idea that anyone hates the 200X line and design around here. It is cool, and I am personally a huge fan, but it is just not the current look for the brand. The current look is the Classics style.

We know there are fans of 200X designs and I imagine in time (and not anytime in the immediate future) 200X heads will be "Classic-ized" much like Whiplash. But not in the current online line as this look is retired. (things can and do come out of retirement if the timing works and the situation calls for it).