I kinda wonder if nephew isn't actually sleepwalking, and the odd things he does at night are credited to "ghosts" by SIL. It's altogether too incidental that she has ghosts in her house, and they show up in yours when nephew spends the night. But I think it's still possible that something is happening without the perp being completely aware, as the incidents are all so random.

I am not a parent, but I have nieces who visited me when they were younger, and they were close friends with some neighbor kids. These were all good kids, but I was very surprised to discover that they would do very stupid things (esp. at a sleepover) and the extent to which they would lie. Several times the kids did things that hurt me and other people; they knew this, and yet they continued to lie.

Some of the incidents required discussion with the parents, who were concerned and spoke to their children. The parents never declared that their children were incapable of doing these things or lying. One parent said, “The kids came clean too easily. There’s more to the story than they’ve admitted.”

The children are all in their 20s now, and all have turned out to be decent human beings.

Logged

It takes two people to play tug of war. If you don't want to play, don't pick up the rope.

Another reason that we suspect nephew (I keep remembering things that help the puzzle pieces come together)...it was him who "discovered" the dog food in the cheesecake. How would one even know to look there unless you knew about it before hand?

Also, DH said he checked in on the boys before he left for work and he said DS, though awake, could hardly keep his eyes open, further corroborating DS's story.

Nephew has been pretty heavily affected (more so than his sisters) by the split of his parents. Like I mentioned in the other vacation post, ex-SIL was successful in turning her son against his father where for a period of time, nephew was refusing to go to his house for visitation and blaming his dad for everything. Also, two weeks ago, his dad's girlfriend had a baby. A boy. Nephew had made it quite known that he didn't want this baby to be a boy as he wanted to remain his father's only son.

Not definitive proof by any means but it might help give some additional insight as to why we do suspect nephew was involved. Attention seeking behaviour perhaps?

What if you got all the kids together (or just talked to them separately if that would be too hard to arrange) and told them that unless you were able to get to the bottom of the pranks, the birthday sleepover would not be happening because you couldn't trust them to all behave when they were together? (Or that the cousins wouldn't be able to attend the birthday sleepover because no pranks had ever happened except for that time they were there, so either they were responsible or something about the dynamic created when all the cousins were together was responsible for an atmosphere in which people were tempted to play pranks?) I suspect that if you told them if they were honest about what happened, you would consider letting the sleepover happen/let them attend the sleepover, they might confess.

What if you got all the kids together (or just talked to them separately if that would be too hard to arrange) and told them that unless you were able to get to the bottom of the pranks, the birthday sleepover would not be happening because you couldn't trust them to all behave when they were together? (Or that the cousins wouldn't be able to attend the birthday sleepover because no pranks had ever happened except for that time they were there, so either they were responsible or something about the dynamic created when all the cousins were together was responsible for an atmosphere in which people were tempted to play pranks?) I suspect that if you told them if they were honest about what happened, you would consider letting the sleepover happen/let them attend the sleepover, they might confess.

Unfortunately, I don't think this would work. I think if I did this, once she found out, cousins' mom would get her hackles up and go on the defensive. It wasn't her kids. It was either me or a ghost that did it.

Another reason that we suspect nephew (I keep remembering things that help the puzzle pieces come together)...it was him who "discovered" the dog food in the cheesecake. How would one even know to look there unless you knew about it before hand?Also, DH said he checked in on the boys before he left for work and he said DS, though awake, could hardly keep his eyes open, further corroborating DS's story.

Nephew has been pretty heavily affected (more so than his sisters) by the split of his parents. Like I mentioned in the other vacation post, ex-SIL was successful in turning her son against his father where for a period of time, nephew was refusing to go to his house for visitation and blaming his dad for everything. Also, two weeks ago, his dad's girlfriend had a baby. A boy. Nephew had made it quite known that he didn't want this baby to be a boy as he wanted to remain his father's only son.

Not definitive proof by any means but it might help give some additional insight as to why we do suspect nephew was involved. Attention seeking behaviour perhaps?

What if you got all the kids together (or just talked to them separately if that would be too hard to arrange) and told them that unless you were able to get to the bottom of the pranks, the birthday sleepover would not be happening because you couldn't trust them to all behave when they were together? (Or that the cousins wouldn't be able to attend the birthday sleepover because no pranks had ever happened except for that time they were there, so either they were responsible or something about the dynamic created when all the cousins were together was responsible for an atmosphere in which people were tempted to play pranks?) I suspect that if you told them if they were honest about what happened, you would consider letting the sleepover happen/let them attend the sleepover, they might confess.

Unfortunately, I don't think this would work. I think if I did this, once she found out, cousins' mom would get her hackles up and go on the defensive. It wasn't her kids. It was either me or a ghost that did it.

And she will look like a twit. Are you really willing to risk your home and the safety of your pets and children if these kids come back, just to keep this woman from getting upset?

What if you got all the kids together (or just talked to them separately if that would be too hard to arrange) and told them that unless you were able to get to the bottom of the pranks, the birthday sleepover would not be happening because you couldn't trust them to all behave when they were together? (Or that the cousins wouldn't be able to attend the birthday sleepover because no pranks had ever happened except for that time they were there, so either they were responsible or something about the dynamic created when all the cousins were together was responsible for an atmosphere in which people were tempted to play pranks?) I suspect that if you told them if they were honest about what happened, you would consider letting the sleepover happen/let them attend the sleepover, they might confess.

Unfortunately, I don't think this would work. I think if I did this, once she found out, cousins' mom would get her hackles up and go on the defensive. It wasn't her kids. It was either me or a ghost that did it.

And she will look like a twit. Are you really willing to risk your home and the safety of your pets and children if these kids come back, just to keep this woman from getting upset?

LOL!!

You have a very good point. I think I'm stumbling over doing a sleepover cut direct because it has never happened before and because I feel like I'd be punishing everyone for the actions of one (or possibly two).

My gut tells me it was nephew and based on that, I wouldn't mind doing a sleepover cut direct for him but because I doubt that cousins' mom would then let my nieces come over without him (her kids are a package deal), I'm reluctant to pull the trigger.

What if you got all the kids together (or just talked to them separately if that would be too hard to arrange) and told them that unless you were able to get to the bottom of the pranks, the birthday sleepover would not be happening because you couldn't trust them to all behave when they were together? (Or that the cousins wouldn't be able to attend the birthday sleepover because no pranks had ever happened except for that time they were there, so either they were responsible or something about the dynamic created when all the cousins were together was responsible for an atmosphere in which people were tempted to play pranks?) I suspect that if you told them if they were honest about what happened, you would consider letting the sleepover happen/let them attend the sleepover, they might confess.

Unfortunately, I don't think this would work. I think if I did this, once she found out, cousins' mom would get her hackles up and go on the defensive. It wasn't her kids. It was either me or a ghost that did it.

And she will look like a twit. Are you really willing to risk your home and the safety of your pets and children if these kids come back, just to keep this woman from getting upset?

LOL!!

You have a very good point. I think I'm stumbling over doing a sleepover cut direct because it has never happened before and because I feel like I'd be punishing everyone for the actions of one (or possibly two).

My gut tells me it was nephew and based on that, I wouldn't mind doing a sleepover cut direct for him but because I doubt that cousins' mom would then let my nieces come over without him (her kids are a package deal), I'm reluctant to pull the trigger.

Does that make any sense?

Sort of.. but you have to you decide if the safety of your home, family and pets is more important than the reaction of this woman. That's what it comes down to safety vs this woman being unhappy. If she refuses to let the girls come because the boy can't - that's on her not you. You have to do what is right and what makes things safest for you and yours. Don't let her manipulate you into allow this to happen again.

If it were my house, the party would happen. The sleep over would not. All children would be made aware of exactly why not.

I suspect that somehow, somewhere, the answers will eventually magically appear when the kids realize that there really are consequences.

I've invited all DS's cousins which include 5 nieces and 1 nephew who were not there that night and are 110% innocent in all of this. Do I still cancel the sleepover? Do I tell my kids they are not allowed any more sleepovers at all with anyone? Somehow that doesn't seem right either...