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It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

We don't have a money back guarantee. Initial sales have been strong so far though so I suspect the feedback and reviews should begin rolling in over the next couple of weeks.

We've been working on True Keys for nearly 4 years so in many ways you're getting version one and version two out of the gate. We knew there was no reason to come to market unless we could really push the envelope when it came to piano VI's. It just happened to take us 4 years to get it to that level.

I'm sure you guys made an informed decision on not selling them individually, despite concerns being raised here (at the least). I'm looking out for an individual piano so this won't be for me. Unless those reviews you are counting on will sway me otherwise

Given the exceptional quality of the Vintage D and the American Concert D, I don't know what anyone could say about another software piano that would make me want to spend twice their price to replace them. They have established the market price for state-of-the-art pianos. Although I can (fortunately) afford to buy all the VST pianos on the market, after it while it becomes a matter of principle not to over-pay for these things. Especially when price and quality don't correlate on previous piano software products.

If Vintage D et al are of exceptional quality and no other software could possibly be much better, why are you posting here apparently interested in another piano VST? No offense meant, just wondering.

I would prefer the individual pianos as well, for obvious reasons. I bought Ivory II back in the day but I only ever use one piano of it. Vintage D certainly has a competitive price (American D less so, but still acceptable). So $350 is indeed a bit much unless there was an actual playable demo. I'll admit the provided demos do sound very nice but they have a good bit of reverb, and listening to Vintage D demos with similiar reverb does make it sound somewhat similiar for the demanding classical pieces. Reverb just tends to connect the notes and possibly makes it sound more resonant (usually the down side of sampled pianos).

So, I'm not sure if I'll buy it right now, although it's tempting. What's $350 compared to what we spend on other stuff, right? Thinking of the gear involved in that Pianoteq patch the other day...

As I mentioned before in another thread, I have already decided to be a guinea pig for this.So, I have just bought True Keys: Pianos via the webstore. The registration and ordering process went smooth, and the flatrate shipping is definitely a nice feature for international customers.

I promise to post a review and create DPBSD samples of all the pianos in the bundle. Hopefully dewster will have worked through his backlog by the time I get this...

Well, I can definitely understand the arguments of those wanting to buy only one piano of the suite.But I do also see why VI Labs decided to offer only the bundle - as Ryan mentioned earlier in the thread, the bundle is priced the same as two individual pianos would have been if they had offered that option.

My thoughts and math (and why I'm fine with getting the bundle):

With the current USD/EUR exchange rate, True Keys set me back about €280.That's 20€ more than the whole Ivory II Grand Pianos suite. I consider that competitively priced.It is also 20€ less than Ivory II Italian Grand and American D combined, so I get a 3 piano bundle for less than 2 separate pianos which I bought in the past.And considering Ryan's pricing statement, since I would have wanted to buy at least the True Keys American and German libraries, I basically get the Italian on top for free.

My first piano VST was Ivory II Italian. I instantly did not like it, so that money was wasted completely. Then I got the Ivory Grand Piano Suite, of which I liked the German D best. More money all in all, but at least I got something usable out of it. So maybe that's the reason I'm partial to bundles. As I quickly realized, the playability makes all the difference, and you can't judge that from demos, so I rather have more pianos to try and find my favourite.

Of course, being able to demo the product and then only buy the favourite piano would be by far the best option for a potential customer; it's too bad this is so difficult with a heavyweight sample library.

In any case, more options are always good for the customer, so maybe the single libraries will be made available individually sometime in the future. I guess that will depend on whether VI Labs considers demand for this to be big enough.

After going through it, my expectations for the product are now even higher. Apart from being hyped up by the introduction, I'm specifically excited about their understanding and implementation of repetition strikes.

EWQLP looked great on paper too - it has true repetition samples and true staccato. However, I find that it behaves better without the repetitions, and the staccato doesn't actually work for normal live playing - you have to use the mod wheel to "select" the stacatto samples! I'll be interested to see how it goes with True Keys. ;^)

If Vintage D et al are of exceptional quality and no other software could possibly be much better, why are you posting here apparently interested in another piano VST? No offense meant, just wondering.

I'm always interested in a new pianos and hopeful that they will improve upon previous products. My exact words were, "I don't know what anyone could say about another software piano that would make me want to spend twice their price to replace them." I'm really objecting to bundling the pianos to drive up the price to just try their product. I think the Vintage D and American Concert D have established the price for state-of-art pianos at $140-$180, not $350. It just annoys me to pay twice as much (or more) to see if I like one of these 3 pianos better than the Vintage D. On the other hand I'd immediately buy one of them to try if it were priced at $180, just as I immediately bought the American Concert D when it became available.

I can see where some people might like the ACD better than the Vintage D, although personally I still prefer the Vintage D. (I'll spare you stories about how good I think it is.) But I don't feel disappointed that I bought the ACD at $180 and still continue to experiment with it trying to find some setup that I would prefer over the Vintage D. However, I would feel very disappointed had I paid $350 just to try it and it didn't become my primary piano. Like I said above, I'm quite fortunate and could easily just go buy every software piano that was introduced. But I still don't like the feeling of overpaying for things even if I can.

BTW, I'm not the least impressed that there are 3 pianos in this bundle. I've already purchased EWQL (4 pianos) and Ivory II (3 pianos) at similar or higher prices. I paid over $400 for EWQL and have always felt extremely annoyed by having to pay for all 4 of their pianos. Had I been able to buy one of those pianos for $180-$200, then I would never had bought the others and simply emotionally wrote it off as a learning experience.

If these new pianos were all state of the art then I would be happy to pay $180 each for them. If none are state of the art then I suspect I would find out after buying the first one and buy no more. The fact that they are bundled suggests to me that at most only one of them is likely to be really good. Else the company would have the confidence to sell them individually knowing that after you like the first one you bought you would want to buy another to try. If you have a great product your customers will always come back for more. If they don't have that confidence in their pianos it's a red flag to me.

If you have a great product your customers will always come back for more.

Absolutely true.

And that fact can fit in to a marketing strategy where the trio of pianos offered includes one very good one. If you find that it is receiving rave reviews you may very well decide to pay the $350 just to get the "good" one.

Always remember, it takes a lot of financial investment to bring these products to market. If there is no payoff for them when they get it right, they will not be motivated to keep striving for better.

Yeah, business is business? Rope in as many as you can on the package through hype and those really interested in one piano but don't mind the package cost (and those that want the whole package of course), then make them available individually later. Crude suggestion but understandable.

What I don't get is why software pianos in general aren't sold via download. Is it really an issue to download 60 GB of data these days? Not to me it isn't. Could probably even lower that with good compression and then unzip during installation. And on top of that, dare I say it, that same download could be used as a limited time demo.

What I don't get is why software pianos in general aren't sold via download. Is it really an issue to download 60 GB of data these days? Not to me it isn't. Could probably even lower that with good compression and then unzip during installation. And on top of that, dare I say it, that same download could be used as a limited time demo.

I would think that the benefits of a download would far outweigh the downsides. Especially if you're convinced you have a great product, a demo would do wonders. This works for the whole software industry, why not for some creators of piano libraries?

And don't get me started on iLok. I have one, but I also have so many usb devices that I'm constantly struggling as it is and don't need the audacity that is copy protection through such a horrible dongle method (that only punishes the paying customer anyway). Not to mention the horrors of setting that thing up and put actual licenses on it. I'm almost certain that this hurts sales more than what is saved through preventing piracy.

I'm almost certain that this hurts sales more than what is saved through preventing piracy.

How can you be certain? None of us have access to information to support that.

Also, the reverse seems fairly certain. They surely know that the sales lost to piracy of unprotected software must be greater than the sales lost to people unwilling to deal with an Ilok. It this were not the case, it would make no economic sense to require an Ilok!

By that logic, 80% of software out there would rely on iLok. But that's not the case. It's used on very, very few applications. I'm not talking about DRM in general (although I'd have to say more about that as well), just this dongle bit.

About DRM in general (very OT, but if anyone is interested). I'm also a bit of gamer. The game industry is probably the biggest target of software piracy. In my humble opinion, as far as people in that industry are concerned, there are those that get it and those that don't. Here's one who does (again, strictly IMO):

with the power of laptop or even tablet these days I believe more people will run their VST through those device, but it only provides a very limited number of USB ports..... which makes me think that iLok (or other device that uses a USB port) is not the way to go for future VSTs.... I do have a iLok myself but it doesn't bother me much because I'm using a desktop.

Actually I'm very interested in the Italian grand of the True Keys myself but I won't spend that much to pay for the others that I don't "want".....

If any of you are at the NAMM show you can come visit us in the MOTU booth (Hall A - Booth 6410). I know some of the nuance is lost due to volume, but we have some Focal Twin 6's and a set of 7506's you can listen through.

...However, if you'd like a few of the MIDI files we can send them over to you. Anyone who wants a few of them can send a message to ryan@vilabsaudio.com and I'll get them put into a zip file and send them over.

Hello VILabs,As you propose, i will really appreciate if you may send me the midi files of yours demos.

By advance, thank you

(PS: Few days ago, i had already ask for the demo by email, but you certainly do not receive it)