G'day Norm, Nope! Not at all! Corticene is a strange deck colour somewhere between a muddy brick red and tan! I needed it for my HMS Manxman Abdiel class fast mine-layer. Never seen it on a carrier!? 😲See -https://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/products/rn24-corticenethey took over the White Ensign naval paints when WE sank / emigrated 🤔 Cheers Doug 😎PS Being nuts is an essential pre-requisite to building model boats and ships 👍😉

Thanks. Trouble with a carrier there are so many small deck sections on all the various outboard platforms, I assume wherever feet would go there would be corticene. Carriers are capital ships, which have timber decks as a rule. But maybe the bridge had planked floors, but everywhere else corticene. Boat decks also.You know, model ship builders have to be nuts!

Hi Norm, Tell me about it!! 😭I have Ark Royal (1939 version) and USS Enterprise (first nuclear super carrier) both 1:350, and there are 'bits' hanging off all over the place 😭I also have HMS Hood and KM Bismarck also 1:350. I am slowly modifying them for radio control (Plastic Magic!) so one day I can re-enact the Battle of the Denmark Straight. Don't plan to blow up my Hood though 😉In the nineties I had the pleasure of working on a Colossus Class Fleet carrier (ex HMS Vengeance) which ended up with the Brazilian Navy.Of course she had been updated and modified many times (I was there to modernise the comms) but I never saw any Corticene.Carriers may be capital ships but only the USN were stupid enough to give them wooden decks, which is why they lost so many to dive bombs and kamikaze planes. Whereas these bounced off the RN carriers armoured decks 😊BTW; did you know that all the major carrier advancements still seen in modern carriers; closed bow, angled flight deck and automated landing systems were all invented by the British? 😊👍Happy building, Doug 😎

Hi Doug,Your Ark Royal, what is the deck colouring on her boat decks? Of course the Brits invented all those mods. They have had the most actual action! Are the arrester wires on your model? If so, what is the spacing between them? As you will see in my pic, taken today, the flight deck is armoured. My problem is the decks of all the small gun platforms etc. Also the deck surrounding the funnel? That might well have been armour.I assume you are in the UK? I am in Ontario.Norm

Hi Norm,All the weapons, boats and other 'hangers-on decks' are Humbrol colour Matt Sea Grey # 27, Revel approximate Matt Mouse Grey (Mausgrau) # 47. Don't know what paint type you use but I have several conversion charts so let me know and I'll see if I can find an equivalent. Flight deck is Matt U.S. Light (!) Green # 117, which is actually not so light, more of a Sea Grey-green. Arrester wires: On the Ark there are 8 ! According to my plan-#1 33.5m from the edge of the roll down,#2 6.6m from #1#3 6.6m from #2#4 7.33m from #3#5 7.33m from #4#6 6.95m from #5#7 5.64 from #6#8 5.26 from #7No guarantee for accuracy!! Or even if 'Lusty' was the same but it's an indication. 😉Your build is looking good 👍 I'm wondering if you are taking all this trouble why don't you go the 'whole hog' and bring her to life😉 Finish the hull and give her some motors 😊No, I'm not in UK, I'm in Munich where I've been for the last 32 years, Tempus fugit😲, hence my forum name 😉Cheers Doug 😎

Hi Doug,Surprise. I did flight deck estimated colour from photo off net as being dark grey. I have all the other decks similar. Hope is ok,I originally thought to build her for RC, but my plan was for 1/8" to the foot, and no way could (a) build in my workshop space, as even built in two halves they have to be put together at some stage during build, and (b) launching a seven foot model would be a big problem on our lake. My Nelson is 1/16" and sails very well. Another reason was, as my wife pointed out, I have enough ships to sail, and storage is a bit of a problem. We have one upstairs room, known here as a loft, which rather resembles a museum when all ships are in port so to speak. She reckons we shall have to move soon, get a bigger house!What took you to Munich?Norm

Hi Norm, "What took me to Munich"?I think it might have been a BEA Trident in those days! 😉Seriously though folks, I came back from a business trip to Moscow (a saga in itself!) to find a trade magazine on my desk with an ad from a Munich company looking for RF engineers to promote their RF test gear in the US.I jumped at it, spent a year in Munich learning the equipment (and the way they think!) and then went to the States East Coast for a 6 week look-see. Came back wrote a 14 page report that made me no friends and said 'No way Jose!'Interestingly 3 months later the MD over there quit and the whole thing collapsed, more or less as I had predicted. So I moved to the Communications Division and began to specialise in Naval Comms systems and never looked back. Took me all over the world to navies and shipyards. Didn't make me rich but it was very interesting and sometimes a lot of fun; like the carrier in Rio de Janeiro for example 😉 Also had a lot to do with a COMMS refit for the RCN Coast Minehunters some years ago 👍BTW: I was thinking of building the Ark large scale, I've seen huge model tankers here 3m+ which are built in two sections and only bolted together at the lake!Since then I'm older and wiser (or is that weaker??!🤔)Your dark grey is probably OK, during the war all ships were patched up with whatever was available when needed anyway! I shall do mine with a touch of green for the flight deck, like most RN ships that operated in the Atlantic.All the 'bolt-on decks' can stay mid-sea grey.Cheers Doug 😎

Hi Doug,Surprise surprise, got another problem. Attached [ic showing two small empty platforms. I don't think they would have had 40mm guns - too small - and I doubt more gun controls or range finders. Any ideas?

Hi Norm,the GA I have, as on active service 1940, doesn't show any sponsons between the 2nd 4.5"AA and the director abaft the front of the island!?It also shows TWO 8 barrel pompoms starboard between the radio mast and the island! It also shows the 4.5 turrets much flatter, almost flush with the flight deck!What you have may have been later add ons. I suspect that the smaller square one was simply for access to the radio mast and the tuning unit which would be at the foot of it. Since the round one also has a door and bulwarks to stop people sliding overboard it would have been manned sometimes and I suspect that either a Quad Vickers 0.5" MG AA (see pics) or a 20mm Oerlikon AA might have been mounted there. Most carriers initially had up to 8 of these Vickers, but they were b.. useless against fast metal aircraft and were soon replaced with 20mm. So if I were you I would be tempted to put a twin 20mm on there. At some stage of the war it would be correct!

The Vickers is impossible to find in a reasonable scale, only teeny weeny etch sets. I once went bonkers putting one together in 1/600 scale for my HMS Manxman, makes yer eyes go funny 😲 There are 8 at 1/350 on my Ark Royal 😡I'm currently in contact with Adrian Smith of Battlecrafts to get some made up in 1/72. He's just done me some 4.7" guns for my 1/72 HMS Hotspur H class destroyer. Not cheap, but damn good 👍 If he ain't got it he'll make it if we can give him photos and drawing or reference sources. The original ship builder often has such an online archive; Vickers for instance.http://www.battlecrafts.co.uk/What date are you depicting with your model? Can you post a pic of your plan? Where did it come from? I've also forgotten what Scale you are building! Aha just found it 1/192 ! Hope this helps more than confuses! Cheers Doug😎Last pic, Illustrious, date unknown, is bit tiny but does show 'something' on sponsons aft of the 4.5s. look like twin 40mm to me, so maybe the sponsons were enlarged at this stage?

Hi again,here the best pic I have of the port side, date unknown. Shows your two platforms but no weapons discernable 🤔 The round one may simply have been a refuge for deck crew when things got hectic or they were under attack. Saw such refuges on the old Colossus class carrier in Brazil, also used one once😲It's now past midnight so Goodnight from Munich, Cheers Doug 😎Forgot to mention; the build is looking very good, such a shame she'll never move 😱

Still up!Here another pic showing the port quarter 1954.The square platform is still there and as I suspected it's for access to the aerial mast ATU and tilt unit for maintenance. Further aft is a round platform with what looks like a single 40mm. A lot more clutter has been added by this date! 🤔 The island has grown as well!Shame it was lovely large photo, I had to scale it down to get the site to accept it 😭And now, definitely goodnight! 😎

Hi Doug,I am beginning to think I will have to make her a generic of Illustrious! I originally intended my model to be as she was in 1942/3. She had so many modifications I am getting lost.My only drawing is one by Norman Ough, from the Great Britain Trust. It has proved to be rather inaccurate. Usually I get drawings from Greenwich, but for some reason they were unable to this time. Maybe just as well as from all the pics I have seen she was probably never as designed. I made the Hull from those drawings, and have had to make alterations to agree with photos! The turrets I had already realized I must alter. Not too great a problem. Just remake the actual turrets but barrels okay. According to my drawing there were two multiple Pom poms abaft the funnel, one one deck below the base of the funnel and the other at flight deck level and two forward of the island, one at flight deck level. I have all the Pom Pom units eight barrelled. Your pic taken from port side forward I was taken in the Pacific I think, as she has the damage to the bridge from kamikaze hit. I'll take a pic tomorrow showing my model as she is now see what you think.Best till thenNorm

Hi Norm, Looking good 👍Looks like your plan is pretty much the same as my GA dwg, no little platforms port side forward! On the other hand, here a port side pic showing them.The little square one has deck above it with railing. The round one has the same gun as you have on the port bow, 40mm single?Then come the director mount then two single gun mounts as you have. Above and between the two singles is a crane mount. Then comes the 8 x pompom. Aft of that the photo gets a bit vague🤔There is a railed gantry running from the port fwd. pair of 4.5s back to the pompom gundeck. the gun decks are also railed. This gantry probably runs back to the stern, and is the same on the starboard side, as I have seen on the old Colossus class Vengeance in Brazil. Learned to keep my head down while walking along them! 😉Your bridge looks a bit low? Still digging - more soon👍Cheers Doug 😎

Starboard side! Photo from 1940.Same square platform for antenna mast maintenance, with same railed deck above. Same round platform behind that (as you already have built) with what looks like a single 40mm or 20mm? Single barrel but shorter than the 40 up front! Then nothing except gantry deck until aft end of the island; then antenna mast mount, boat deck and crane, antenna mast, then some small AA 1x40 and 2 twin 20s?, director, searchlight, antenna mast, then 2x 4.5s. also a close up pic of port fwd. 40mm mount and battle damage! All for now👍Good night from Munich 😎

Some info. on radar, armament and wartime mods! 'Ya pays ya money and yer takes yer choice'! 😎"Armament, electronics and protectionThe main armament of the Illustrious class consisted of sixteen quick-firing (QF) 4.5-inch (110 mm) dual-purpose guns in eight twin-gun turrets, four in sponsons on each side of the hull. The roofs of the gun turrets protruded above the level of the flight deck to allow them to fire across the deck at high elevations.[11] The gun had a maximum range of 20,760 yards (18,980 m).[12] Her light anti-aircraft defences included six octuple mounts for QF 2-pounder ("pom-pom") anti-aircraft (AA) guns, two each fore and aft of the island and two in sponsons on the port side of the hull.[11] The 2-pounder gun had a maximum range of 6,800 yards (6,200 m).[13]

The completion of Illustrious was delayed two months to fit her with a Type 79Z early-warning radar; she was the first aircraft carrier in the world to be fitted with radar before completion.[11] This version of the radar had separate transmitting and receiving antennas which required a new mainmast to be added to the aft end of the island to mount the transmitter.[14]

The Illustrious-class ships had a flight deck protected by 3 inches (76 mm) of armour and the internal sides and ends of the hangars were 4.5 inches (114 mm) thick. The hangar deck itself was 2.5 inches (64 mm) thick and extended the full width of the ship to meet the top of the 4.5-inch waterline armour belt. The belt was closed by 2.5-inch transverse bulkheads fore and aft. The underwater defence system was a layered system of liquid- and air-filled compartments backed by a 1.5-inch (38 mm) splinter bulkhead.[15]Wartime modificationsWhile under repair in 1941, Illustrious's rear "round-down" was flattened to increase the usable length of the flight deck to 670 feet (204.2 m).[16] This increased her aircraft complement to 41 aircraft by use of a permanent deck park.[17] Her light AA armament was also augmented by the addition of 10 Oerlikon 20 mm autocannon in single mounts with a maximum range of 4,800 yards (4,400 m).[18] In addition the two steel fire curtains in the hangar were replaced by asbestos ones.[19] After her return to the UK later that year, her Type 79Z radar was replaced by a Type 281 system and a Type 285 gunnery radar was mounted on one of the main fire-control directors.[16] The additional crewmen, maintenance personnel and facilities needed to support these aircraft, weapons and sensors increased her complement to 1,326.[7]

During her 1943 refits, the flight deck was modified to extend its usable length to 740 feet (225.6 m), and "outriggers" were probably added at this time. These were 'U'-shaped beams that extended from the side of the flight deck into which aircraft tailwheels were placed. The aircraft were pushed back until the main wheels were near the edge of the flight deck to allow more aircraft to be stored on the deck. Twin Oerlikon mounts replaced most of the single mounts. Other twin mounts were added so that by May she had a total of eighteen twin and two single mounts. The Type 281 radar was replaced by an upgraded Type 281M, and a single-antenna Type 79M was added. Type 282 gunnery radars were added for each of the "pom-pom" directors, and the rest of the main directors were fitted with Type 285 radars. A Type 272 target-indicator radar was mounted above her bridge.[16] These changes increased her aircraft capacity to 57[20] and caused her crew to grow to 1,831.[7]

A year later, in preparation for her service against the Japanese in the Pacific, one starboard octuple "pom-pom" mount, directly abaft the island, was replaced by two 40 mm Bofors AA guns;[21] which had a maximum range of 10,750 yards (9,830 m).[22] Two more twin Oerlikon mounts were added, and her boilers were retubed.[21] At this time her complement was 1,997 officers and enlisted men.[7] By 1945, accumulated wear-and-tear as well as undiagnosed shock damage to Illustrious's machinery caused severe vibrations in her centre propeller shaft at high speeds. In an effort to cure the problem, the propeller was removed, and the shaft was locked in place in February; these radical measures succeeded in reducing, but not eliminating, the vibrations and reduced the ship's speed to about 24 knots (44 km/h; 28 mph).["

Hi,I made the bridge to my drawing. I think it's right. I would think that Noram Ough had his basic dimensions correct. If not I might as well start over! In the pic I am attaching, there is a platform with what looks like a very large searchlight, but it is not clear enough to be sure, Seems a bit unlikely.I am giving her a 36 foot launch. I assume it would have been grey, though I am tempted to paint it black, with varnished wood cabin and mahogany foredeck.I am beginning to feel a bit stupid asking so many questions. I hope you don't feel 'oh no not him again!😡 Never had anyone to consult before. Most of the time here it's me helping others in our little club.You got around a lot of ships all over the world I think. What were you doing, or shouldn't I ask?RegardsNorm

Hi Norm, Norm (!) Oughs drawing may well be 'as built'. During the war she received many mods. Depends on the time snapshot you want to recreate. I may be wrong about the island (photo perspective) but it seemed that way. I remember standing on the topmost island deck of a Colossus class carrier, at the foot of the antenna mast, looking down at ants crawling about on the deck, and the even smaller ones on the dockside! 😉 I was up there inspecting the COMMS antenna fit. That was my job the last 30 odd years. On existing ships I would survey the COMMS systems for upgrades and refits. For new build ships I would discuss the requirements and possibilities with the navies and then discuss with the shipyards how to achieve them! All good stuff, but the last 10 years I was getting a bit stiff for the climbing, so I sent a younger colleague up while I discussed the existing system and any problems with the crew in the Wardroom😉Can't see your pic, the site only accepts jpgs etc🤔 An irritation that has often cost me time to do conversions 😡We'll have to 'gang up' on Fireboat (Stephen) to get this improved.i often wanted to upload a pdf page, but had to convert to jpg etc first😭

Where is this mysterious platform? Maybe I can find it. A large searchlight would not surprise me. Could also be an early radar antenna, need to research the types mentioned above.If the launch has a cabin it may be an 'Admirals Barge', and Admirals had a lot of freedom to paint them how they wanted. So black and mahogany sounds very appropriate to me 👍Often said on this site (and elsewhere) but: 'The only silly question is the one you don't ask'! Keep up the good work, Doug 😎

Yep, you're right, definitely a searchlight👍Behind it you can see the railed gantry I mentioned before.'Running buses' is a boring way to describe excursions to India & Nepal.Sounds pretty interesting (and hair raising) to me!Cheers Doug 😎

mdlbt.com/29462

40mm AA bofors - Posted: 30th May 2017

Thanks for the portside pic. Answered my upcoming query - did Illustrious' Bofors have a shield. I have Norman Ough's book, with excellent detailed drawing of the gun, but no way can I get all that detail made at 192 scale.

Hi.Not sure if the attached pictures will help.They are not all from Illustrious but do show some good detail.The pictures of the book pages are of HMS Victorious,sister ship.May be of help to you.regards Bill.

Hi.I am building a working model of HMS Victorious,circa 1941 (sister ship) and have a lot of pictures and plan drawings.Please give me a couple of days as I am away but I will get back to you.Regards Bill.

Hi,Thanks. What scale are you building to? I had originally intended to build to 1-96, but my workshop facility would not be able to cope, and my wife also pointed out I have enough sailing models already! So waterline to 192.Norm

Hi Norm.I am building to 1/128th Using a Fleetscale basic format but making lots of the fittings.I attach a few pictures which may help.I have a lot more if you wish me to send the via post plus some reference books details.The picture of port side with crew on deck is circa 1949 so quite late.I am lucky to have a good size workshop so space is not a problem.

Hi Bill,Thanks. The flightdeck pic is a beaut. Trouble is she underwent so many alterations, mainly of course to the island. I have so many very poor photos taken off the net, and I don't think two are the same! I am afraid my model is going to be a hybrid over ten years.I am putting up a couple of pics showing my space problem. One problem I have is that the damp emitted by the washing machine and dryer tends to rust things.

In fact I manage okay, but my wife occasionally complains it is difficult to get to the dryer.Have another query. Attached pic taken from Wikipedia. What is the structure below the curve down end of the flight deck?It was taken in 1940 so probably original build.

Hi, there's also a gantry running underneath and of course the girder work supporting the roll down. here's a somewhat later pic, Landing On view. On my Ark Royal plan it's very similar.cheers Doug 😎PS Note Blackburn Buccaneers on deck!

Hi Doug,No wonder you're a fleet admiral! Sounds as if you have had quite a time, and I'd guess just about retiring, which I've been for some sixteen years now after most of my adult life running tour coaches, twenty years overland to India and Nepal. Resurrected model ship building when I came to Canada.There is a guy in Hamilton with an American carrier which is about seven feet long. He has a special box and trailer for it. Installs the ballast after launching. It sails well, though does not like wind, and is not much to look at. He had it on our lake about three years ago for our annual Canada day regatta. My longest ship is HMS Ceres, five feet. Sails well and is remarkably stable for such a narrow really oversize destroyer.Back to sorting out pom pom control systems about half an inch high, and fguring out how to fit the windscreen to Fairey Fulmars.BestNorm