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The purpose of this thread is to discuss the setting for Valkyria Chronicles. You can feel free to discuss the different aspects of the setting, from the countries involved, to the current conflict, to the military organizations and so on. Anything technology or hardware related should go in the Weapons and Technology thread. http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=80859

In particular, I get the feeling that there can be spoilers lurking in some of the background material, so please use those spoiler tags!

Thread Guidelines

If required, please use spoiler tags (with appropriate titles) if your comments are based on the latest episode raws (or any non-anime source).

[spoiler=episode number]Don't forget to use a title for the spoiler![/spoiler]

Please include the episode number or some such title in the spoiler tag (spoiler=episode number) since it at least helps others to identify if they may or may not have seen that particular episode. A spoiler without such a title is almost as bad as no spoiler since the temptation not to click is so difficult

Please keep discussion about plot and storylines in the relevant Episode Discussion threads, not here.

Be polite to your fellow forum members and try and keep the discussion on topic and above all, enjoy.

-4Tran

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Principality of Gallia

The Principality of Gallia, located in between the Atlantic Federation to the West and the Eastern Europan Imperial Alliance to the east, is known for its neutrality with the policy of universal conscription among its nationals to serve in the Gallian military and its richness in ragnite ore.

Its capital is located in Randgriz, with the government being led by a Prime Minister and the throne being led by the House of Randgriz. Its currency is the ducat.

East European Imperial Alliance

A union nations in the eastern regions of the Europan continent under the East Europan Emperor. It is known by all informally as "the Empire".

Its origin is traced back to the Industrial Revolution, when ragnite was harnessed as an energy source which resulted in the creation of many east Europan nations. There are, however, joined by a network of marriages among their royalty.

The Empire holds customs dating back from medieval times, including a strong hatred for the Darcsen people for the "Darcsen Calamity".

Atlantic Federation

A union of West Europan democracies created during the Industrial Revolution, they are known informally as "the Federation".

Thanks to the Industrial Revolution and with the discovery of ragnite, many west Europan countries underwent many revolutions that resulted in the creation of democratic states. A Councilor is the head of the Federation, though there are rare agreements with the Federation's members.

It is rumored that alliances were gained by blackmail and secret agreements.

__________________

Even if we were at odds with each other, I still thank you for training me, Instructor Bowman - Yu Ominae, reflecting on Bowman's death after killing him in Phantom Island

While he may be the first son, his mother is comparatively low born compared with the mother of his other siblings. Thus there is an assassination attempt which kills his mother, most of his closest retainers and almost Max himself. He subsequently loses his position as first prince through other scheming on their behalf.

This is a major motivation of his assault on Gallia as he hopes to use it as a foothold to take back the crown prince position that he views as rightfully his.

While he may be the first son, his mother is comparatively low born compared with the mother of his other siblings. Thus there is an assassination attempt which kills his mother, most of his closest retainers and almost Max himself. He subsequently loses his position as first prince through other scheming on their behalf.

This is a major motivation of his assault on Gallia as he hopes to use it as a foothold to take back the crown prince position that he views as rightfully his.

Aye. He's like Lelouch in more ways than one.

While I can understand why Max wants Gallia, I don't get the Federation's attempts to stir the pot. They think that they can get a cheap victory at the Empire's expense or what?

You mean interfering in Gallia? Gallia has huge deposits of ragnite and the entire reason for the second Europa War was due to growing scarcity of it in the Empire and Federation. Securing Gallia for any side would mean they would have a distinct advantage over the other.

Ah, the old "conquest for resources" gambit. But, given the Federation's MO, I would have expected them to use commercial ways to secure the ragnite. A well-worded treaty would be more useful than provoking a full-scale war.

Eh, they probably tried years ago. However when you've got an institutional system of training all your citizens for warfare AND the resources to build/purchase supplies for them all AND have a few genius weapon designers like Professor Theimer... well... I'm betting Gallia thumbed their noses at a deal because it wouldn't benefit them at all.

Also, given the way that they're portrayed in the game it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that a number of small nation states were forced into joining the Federation rather than willingly joining.

If Maximillian hadn't invaded Gallia there was a distinct possibility that the Federation would have still tried to strong-arm them into joining through an invasion.

Ah, the old "conquest for resources" gambit. But, given the Federation's MO, I would have expected them to use commercial ways to secure the ragnite. A well-worded treaty would be more useful than provoking a full-scale war.

Spoiler for Game spoilers I guess. Better be safe than sorry:

Well, the AF ambassador to Gallia did kidnap the princess with a team of AF Army special forces that have infiltrated Gallian soil. So I'm not surprised if this was done to blackmail the government.

__________________

Even if we were at odds with each other, I still thank you for training me, Instructor Bowman - Yu Ominae, reflecting on Bowman's death after killing him in Phantom Island

Eh, they probably tried years ago. However when you've got an institutional system of training all your citizens for warfare AND the resources to build/purchase supplies for them all AND have a few genius weapon designers like Professor Theimer... well... I'm betting Gallia thumbed their noses at a deal because it wouldn't benefit them at all.

Also, given the way that they're portrayed in the game it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that a number of small nation states were forced into joining the Federation rather than willingly joining.

If Maximillian hadn't invaded Gallia there was a distinct possibility that the Federation would have still tried to strong-arm them into joining through an invasion.

Heh. Looks like Gallia is well-prepared. They seemed to have done everything right: using the blessing of resources wisely, while developing human capital. However, while the Fed is not above using warfare to supplement their commercial interests, they probably wouldn't push anyone to the brink, for fear of "kicking the iron board", as Hellsing's Alucard would put it.

The Fed reminds me of the side Westwood/EA created for their Dune games: the Ordos. No doubt, there is a ruling cartel behind. I wonder who their "first among equals" is?

1. What are the sizes of the respective militaries? By all appearances, the Imperial army is the largest of the three belligerents, but by how much? And how much of that force has been sent to the Gallia campaign?

2. What's the relationship between the Gallian Militia and Regular forces, and their respective sizes? I would presume that the Regulars were the standing pre-war military, and the Militia are the conscript soldiers called up to active duty at the beginning of hostilities. However, do the Regulars get their forces enlarged by conscripted troops as well, or do they all go into the Militia?

3. How heavy is the fighting in Gallia? From the beginning, I assumed that the Imperials were in danger of overrunning Gallia, but from the relaxed attitude of the Gallian soldiers and their ability to counterattack seems to refute that. Maximillian is supposed to be some sort of strategic genius, but the lack of action seems to belie that. Is the section of the front where Squad 7 is just really quiet, or has the Imperial force stalled, or are the Imperials just not that good?

By the way, if the answers are spoiler territory, please don't answer them.

__________________

The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won...

1. What are the sizes of the respective militaries? By all appearances, the Imperial army is the largest of the three belligerents, but by how much? And how much of that force has been sent to the Gallia campaign?

2. What's the relationship between the Gallian Militia and Regular forces, and their respective sizes? I would presume that the Regulars were the standing pre-war military, and the Militia are the conscript soldiers called up to active duty at the beginning of hostilities. However, do the Regulars get their forces enlarged by conscripted troops as well, or do they all go into the Militia?

3. How heavy is the fighting in Gallia? From the beginning, I assumed that the Imperials were in danger of overrunning Gallia, but from the relaxed attitude of the Gallian soldiers and their ability to counterattack seems to refute that. Maximillian is supposed to be some sort of strategic genius, but the lack of action seems to belie that. Is the section of the front where Squad 7 is just really quiet, or has the Imperial force stalled, or are the Imperials just not that good?

By the way, if the answers are spoiler territory, please don't answer them.

1.

Spoiler for Answer:

No details are given for the Imperial military. For Gallia...

80,000 ground units
10,000 marine units
2,000 military police units

2.

Spoiler for Answer:

Basing on my knowledge on conscript/national service armies, the regulars would be those individuals who decided to go on and serve after their conscription has ended. The militia is only used for emergency situations such as war or natural disaster.

But in the VC universe, it seems that those called up for service and are not in the regulars are automatically placed in the militia, as so it seems to be. There is some tension between them as hinted many times in the game (also in the manga too) due to their "importance", as I would say.

3.

Spoiler for Answer:

Well this is most likely due to the reason that the Imperials are consolidated in Ghirlandaio fortress. It's also probably because the Imperials are defeating the Gallians all the time that Maxie boy's confident when they later invaded Gallian soil.

Like the Gallian regs, the Imps don't think too highly of the militia since most of them are made up of Gallians called up to do national service.

__________________

Even if we were at odds with each other, I still thank you for training me, Instructor Bowman - Yu Ominae, reflecting on Bowman's death after killing him in Phantom Island

1) Funnily enough, the game implies that even though the Imperials have a massive standing army... they're actually the technologically superior force rather than the numerically superior force. Their tanks, weapons, training methods, etc, are all leaps and bounds ahead of the Federation.

The Federation on the other hand relies primarily on numbers and quickly churning out massive numbers of tanks and weapons thanks to their better industry and commerce capabilities, but overall they're somewhat like Soviet Russia during WW2 without the T-34 and more money.

As for the size of the force sent to Gallia, I would suggest that it isn't too large. Maybe 100,000 to 300,000 soldiers tops? (Though Selvaria counts as a few thousand soldiers all by herself as episode 8 will likely show.) The Empire wants it for the ragnite, or at least to keep it out of the clutches of the Federation, but overall its not exceedingly valuable. Hence why an Imperial Prince out of favour was sent there. Except that Max volunteered...

2) Exactly as you said, except the Militia originally comprised of volunteers rather than conscripts. As the war goes on in the game you read newspaper articles about various stages of conscription however.

Technically I believe the Militia are meant to be put under the command of Regulars officers like Captain Varrot and then incorporated fully into the Gallian army. The reality is that Damon goes for segregation, hence why things seem clunky. As further evidence of said segregation, the reality is that Captain Varrot is ex-Europa War 1 Militia who stayed on after said war, and thus likely why she was put in charge.

3) So far Squad 7 have been deployed against:
- The "arrow point" of an extremely long blitzkreig thrust. (The bridge.)
- The far south east supply camps of the Imperial army when the major thrusts came from the east and north east.
- The Barious Desert, a place with no strategic worth, no ragnite, no nothing.

So yeah. Not exactly the full force of the Imperial army, but enough to cause issues.

Also, since the blitz against the bridge was pushed back, no Imperial forces have been advancing against Randgriez, which is where the militia base is located. The far north of the country, where the majority of Gallia's ragnite deposits and industry are located, are probably all under Imperial control by this stage of the anime.

The answers to my questions don't seem to have any spoilers, so I'm going to drop the spoiler tags.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yu Ominae

No details are given for the Imperial military. For Gallia...

80,000 ground units
10,000 marine units
2,000 military police units

Interesting; that'd be about 4 divisions or so. Are the figures for before or after calling up the Militia?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalbron

1) Funnily enough, the game implies that even though the Imperials have a massive standing army... they're actually the technologically superior force rather than the numerically superior force. Their tanks, weapons, training methods, etc, are all leaps and bounds ahead of the Federation.

The Federation on the other hand relies primarily on numbers and quickly churning out massive numbers of tanks and weapons thanks to their better industry and commerce capabilities, but overall they're somewhat like Soviet Russia during WW2 without the T-34 and more money.

Ah, but are the Imperials reminiscent of the Red Army in 1939, or 1941, or 1942-3, or 1944-5? There's a world of difference between them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalbron

As for the size of the force sent to Gallia, I would suggest that it isn't too large. Maybe 100,000 to 300,000 soldiers tops? (Though Selvaria counts as a few thousand soldiers all by herself as episode 8 will likely show.) The Empire wants it for the ragnite, or at least to keep it out of the clutches of the Federation, but overall its not exceedingly valuable. Hence why an Imperial Prince out of favour was sent there. Except that Max volunteered...

This makes a lot of sense to me. Even if this theatre is considered a side show, it's not too uncommon to send an influential but inexperienced person there. It can be considered a way to "blood" a prince without too much risk. A useful parallel is Napoleon sending his brother to take charge of Spain in the 19th century.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yu Ominae

Well this is most likely due to the reason that the Imperials are consolidated in Ghirlandaio fortress. It's also probably because the Imperials are defeating the Gallians all the time that Maxie boy's confident when they later invaded Gallian soil.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalbron

2) Exactly as you said, except the Militia originally comprised of volunteers rather than conscripts. As the war goes on in the game you read newspaper articles about various stages of conscription however.

That doesn't make any sense. How can a country be faced with invasion against a superior foe who is quite successful and still be content to resort to volunteer forces. Such a conflict can only go two ways - if the invasion is broadly successful, then Gallia should be in a panic, trying to muster as many soldiers in the field as possible. This obviously hasn't happened, and the Gallian military is actually quite lacksidasical - which would mean that all of the Imperial attacks have stalled or have been sent into retreat. This would seem to be the case except that the narrative would have to be that Maximillian is an incapable commander.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalbron

Technically I believe the Militia are meant to be put under the command of Regulars officers like Captain Varrot and then incorporated fully into the Gallian army. The reality is that Damon goes for segregation, hence why things seem clunky. As further evidence of said segregation, the reality is that Captain Varrot is ex-Europa War 1 Militia who stayed on after said war, and thus likely why she was put in charge.

If there was such a strong current of segregation, then how do the Regulars replenish their losses?

__________________

The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won...

Interesting; that'd be about 4 divisions or so. Are the figures for before or after calling up the Militia?

Not sure on the figures if they're before or after the militia. It's too vague. Sega wasn't clear on this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Tran

That doesn't make any sense. How can a country be faced with invasion against a superior foe who is quite successful and still be content to resort to volunteer forces. Such a conflict can only go two ways - if the invasion is broadly successful, then Gallia should be in a panic, trying to muster as many soldiers in the field as possible. This obviously hasn't happened, and the Gallian military is actually quite lacksidasical - which would mean that all of the Imperial attacks have stalled or have been sent into retreat. This would seem to be the case except that the narrative would have to be that Maximillian is an incapable commander.

If there was such a strong current of segregation, then how do the Regulars replenish their losses?

I guess it is a good question. Cutscenes in the game and the anime do show hatred betweeen the regs and the militiamen/women. Most likely it stalled for some time since Maxie boy wants to claim Randgriz without destroying it.

Another good question is how the regs replenish their ranks. Not sure how I can answer that.

__________________

Even if we were at odds with each other, I still thank you for training me, Instructor Bowman - Yu Ominae, reflecting on Bowman's death after killing him in Phantom Island

Ah, but are the Imperials reminiscent of the Red Army in 1939, or 1941, or 1942-3, or 1944-5? There's a world of difference between them.

Actually the Imperials are probably closer to Nazi Germany at the begining of WW2 with all the technological advances made during WW2 by all sides. They are seriously leaps and bounds ahead of everyone else, except, of course, Professor Theimer who was something like Gallia's mix between Einstein and all the greatest weaponry designers in history.

Seriously. Dude had a hand in just about every single weapon upgrade in the game except for about... maybe 3 of them?

As for the Federation, I would say they would be a copy of the massively underprepared pre-involvement in WW2 Soviet Russia. From the info in the game it sounds like they were pushed hard at the start until they re-wired all their industry into making weaponry and conscripting soldiers. Only then could they hold their own.

Quote:

That doesn't make any sense. How can a country be faced with invasion against a superior foe who is quite successful and still be content to resort to volunteer forces. Such a conflict can only go two ways - if the invasion is broadly successful, then Gallia should be in a panic, trying to muster as many soldiers in the field as possible. This obviously hasn't happened, and the Gallian military is actually quite lacksidasical - which would mean that all of the Imperial attacks have stalled or have been sent into retreat. This would seem to be the case except that the narrative would have to be that Maximillian is an incapable commander.

Actually it makes perfect sense actually... well maybe not perfect. You see there are two major factors to take into account here:

1) Maximillian is very very very patient. He's been waiting ~15 years for revenge, knows he has the superior force, and mentioned a key facet of his desires for taking Gallia in episode 7. He didn't want to invade any faster and further until he learned that in case he potentially harmed it.

2) The nobles decide when and who the militia will conscript. Damon is the current favoured noble lackey of the man who makes those decisions. Guess who's getting incorrect and biased information about the war's progress?

Spoiler for Third Point:

(As a third one, it serves the purposes of the story to have the Imperial advance be slow enough for Squad 7 to run around the country freely. Later on in the show, ask yourself: "What if the Imperial advance had prevented them from going to the Barious Ruins?" The difference in the plot would be mind boggling.)

Quote:

If there was such a strong current of segregation, then how do the Regulars replenish their losses?

During the war? I would suggest that they primarily don't. If they do, they would likely come from the ranks of nobles and any trained men that they bring with them into the regulars. Yes it's stupid. Yes it's inefficient. But it's Damon!

Spoiler for Largish Game Spoilers, though not overly important ones:

After all, in the game, they essentially get to the point where they're practically conscripting everyone simply because the Regulars got annihilated after one major battle and only the Militia was left.

By the sounds of things the war had ground down the Regulars to the point where they could almost all gather in a single place with relative ease.