Without wishing to defend Toby Young, it is worth pointing out that Andrew Adonis has no practical experience of education, transport or (although this is more contestable) social mobility, but that hasn't stopped him posing as an expert in all three fields under four Prime Ministers and making a fat living from them.

One of the regulators of the SLC, who apparently worked as a solicitor for the NHS, told me in all apparent seriousness that they were not bound by the criminal law.

Young being appointed in a subject he knows nothing about is hardly unusual.

Without wishing to defend Toby Young, it is worth pointing out that Andrew Adonis has no practical experience of education, transport or (although this is more contestable) social mobility, but that hasn't stopped him posing as an expert in all three fields under four Prime Ministers and making a fat living from them.

One of the regulators of the SLC, who apparently worked as a solicitor for the NHS, told me in all apparent seriousness that they were not bound by the criminal law.

Young being appointed in a subject he knows nothing about is hardly unusual.

Fair comment. I’m not highly impressed by including the lady from Boots, either given their employment practices (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09m6rfl shortly)Plus quite a lot in the Guardian not long ago and they are in a long-running dispute over Union recognition... their ‘sweetheart’ union isn’t popular with the regulators, AIUI.

It is certainly correct to say that many economists (including relatively free market ones) believed the Thatcher/Howe labour market reforms would result in UK unemployment soaring to 5m.

But I don't believe it was the view of a majority, or even a sizeable minority, of labour market economists.

The consensus view of economists at the time was that labour market liberalisation would result in firms firing all the unproductive workers. This would result in a double whammy to the economy: those people who had previously been spending (and paying taxes) would no longer be doing so, while those people still in jobs would respond to greater uncertainty by upping their savings rate, therefore also lowering aggregate demand.

In other words, economists at the time forecast what did actually happen in Spain following labour market reform.

Now, why was it that the economists were wrong:

1. They had underestimated the drag of a large number of people working in unproductive jobs. As firms lost unproductive workers, they moved to replace them, confident that they would be able to let people go if things turned south.

2. As the inflation dragon began to be slayed, people felt confident borrowing, and this held up domestic consumption much better than expected. (With the caveat that it laid some of the later problems for the UK.)

and finally

3. World economic activity picked up, and this raised demand for British goods at a crucial time.

Without wishing to defend Toby Young, it is worth pointing out that Andrew Adonis has no practical experience of education, transport or (although this is more contestable) social mobility, but that hasn't stopped him posing as an expert in all three fields under four Prime Ministers and making a fat living from them.

One of the regulators of the SLC, who apparently worked as a solicitor for the NHS, told me in all apparent seriousness that they were not bound by the criminal law.

Young being appointed in a subject he knows nothing about is hardly unusual.

He’s undoubtedly a self-aggrandising blowhard but isn’t that a requirement for quango-esque appointments.

I’ll be interested in what Adonis does next as he’s an apparatchnick par excellence. But singularly lacking in wider employability.

Edit: I’ve no doubt there are some competent public sector lawyers out there but they’re thin on the ground,

It is certainly correct to say that many economists (including relatively free market ones) believed the Thatcher/Howe labour market reforms would result in UK unemployment soaring to 5m.

But I don't believe it was the view of a majority, or even a sizeable minority, of labour market economists.

The consensus view of economists at the time was that labour market liberalisation would result in firms firing all the unproductive workers. This would result in a double whammy to the economy: those people who had previously been spending (and paying taxes) would no longer be doing so, while those people still in jobs would respond to greater uncertainty by upping their savings rate, therefore also lowering aggregate demand.

In other words, economists at the time forecast what did actually happen in Spain following labour market reform.

Now, why was it that the economists were wrong:

1. They had underestimated the drag of a large number of people working in unproductive jobs. As firms lost unproductive workers, they moved to replace them, confident that they would be able to let people go if things turned south.

2. As the inflation dragon began to be slayed, people felt confident borrowing, and this held up domestic consumption much better than expected. (With the caveat that it laid some of the later problems for the UK.)

and finally

3. World economic activity picked up, and this raised demand for British goods at a crucial time.

Interesting graphs. Also got the Italian election, the German re-run, and the Swedish election, plus the midterms from the US.

Of those, I think the Italian election is the one with the greatest potential to "change the world". Italy is economically moribund, has terrible demographics, and struggles mightily in the Euro. (It's historic system was to have rigid labour markets offset by high inflation and constant devaluations.)

I don't believe - as HYUFD does - that there is a likely Forza Italia, LN, Five Star coalition to depart the Euro. (That's like suggesting there would be a coalition government of Jeremy Corbyn and Daniel Hannan.) But I do think it is reasonably likely that a moderately Eurosceptic party will "win" the Italian elections.

Interesting graphs. Also got the Italian election, the German re-run, and the Swedish election, plus the midterms from the US.

Of those, I think the Italian election is the one with the greatest potential to "change the world". Italy is economically moribund, has terrible demographics, and struggles mightily in the Euro. (It's historic system was to have rigid labour markets offset by high inflation and constant devaluations.)

I don't believe - as HYUFD does - that there is a likely Forza Italia, LN, Five Star coalition to depart the Euro. (That's like suggesting there would be a coalition government of Jeremy Corbyn and Daniel Hannan.) But I do think it is reasonably likely that a moderately Eurosceptic party will "win" the Italian elections.

All countries have internal divisions but Italy has never really reconciled to unification *(Cavour/Verdi shout). The Lombard plain is like Bavaria in its worth ethic. The Abruzzo has more in common with the land of the Vandals. Odd really, Sicily and England both had the Norsemen conquer them but they took radically different directions.

*in my view etc. Unlike most on here, I recognise both shades of grey and the possibility that my opinions are wrong.

King Cole, Julian far exceeded expectations, defending Gaul and even taking the war into Germania. Indeed, he went on to win the most flawless victory in any civil war (as the armies massed, the emperor died of disease, after naming Julian his heir).

Mr. D4, I would've been more specific but couldn't recall just who was actually in Italy at the time. I think a tiny sliver of Roman influence remained, and obviously the Pope was there, poping around, but the Ostrogoths had long since been dispatched at the idiotic behest of Justinian, and I don't think the Venetians and Genoese had really got going.

King Cole, Julian far exceeded expectations, defending Gaul and even taking the war into Germania. Indeed, he went on to win the most flawless victory in any civil war (as the armies massed, the emperor died of disease, after naming Julian his heir).

Makes him significantly different from Young, then.

I may seem unusually negative about him, but his book was one of the, if not the most unpleasant examples of self-aggrandisement I’ve ever read, and, seeing him on the likes of Question Time has only confirmed my dislike.

King Cole, don't watch QT much, certainly any more, but I do remember him being on because he said one of the most impressively stupid things I'd heard since Mehdi Hasan (on Any Questions) claimed Muslims in Britain were treated like Jews in 1930s Germany.

Toby Young asked why things had to be kept secret. Why we couldn't just be told intelligence information about our security. I forget the precise matter that was being discussed, but distinctly recall taking the important and correct decision to switch off the television before any more stupid spilled into my ears.

Have we finally found an issue all PBers can agree on - that QT is shite?

I think we can all agree that Toby Young is an empty-headed big mouth. What in God’s name is someone like May, who gives the impression of being serious and sober, doing approving such an appointment, beats me.

The Tories need to appeal to the student generation. They claim to understand this. And they such a pillock to an important public sector post?

It suggests a less than happy place. It would concern me as a parent if there was such turnover at a school attended by my children.

One wonders how much due diligence has been done on Mr Young’s actual achievements. Or will this be like Camilla Batmanghelidjh - someone who is good at talking but bloody awful at implementation? Governments seem to be particularly vulnerable to such people.

Wow.Have we finally found an issue all PBers can agree on - that QT is shite?

I think we can all agree that Toby Young is an empty-headed big mouth. What in God’s name is someone like May, who gives the impression of being serious and sober, doing approving such an appointment, beats me.

The Tories need to appeal to the student generation. They claim to understand this. And they such a pillock to an important public sector post?

All countries have internal divisions but Italy has never really reconciled to unification *(Cavour/Verdi shout). The Lombard plain is like Bavaria in its worth ethic. The Abruzzo has more in common with the land of the Vandals. Odd really, Sicily and England both had the Norsemen conquer them but they took radically different directions.

*in my view etc. Unlike most on here, I recognise both shades of grey and the possibility that my opinions are wrong.

I think an emulation of the Italian situation is a moderately probable outcome for Brexit Britain. In my view, shades of grey etc, and in particular noting that not everything about Italy is bad, that it has its Milan, just as the UK has London and also that the situation developed over a long period and not overnight. Nevertheless many Italian elements are present or are becoming present in Britain, that Brexit will probably attenuate: old and tired, poor productivity, lack of innovation, reduced opportunities, inward looking, poor social cohesion, moribund politics. These factors have been somewhat mitigated in the UK by immigration but Brexit, as apparently propagated by our government, aims to change all that.

Otherwise I guess either the UK is qualitatively different from Italy in some way that I am not aware of, or something concrete will happen that prevents the UK becoming like Italy.

Have we finally found an issue all PBers can agree on - that QT is shite?

QT is illinformed people giving their slanted views in response to slanted questions..

So much better when an informed interviewer like Andrew Neil asks the questions and can ask suplementary follow up questions.

Neil, is a London unionist puppet, he is economical with his questions and gets a bit mixed upabout real facts and fiction at times.

Andrew Neil is prejudiced in the questions he asks. Counterintuitively, interviewees that know their stuff and hold their ground on opinions that don't fit Neil's fixed views get more out of an interview with him than someone he agrees with and doesn't put any effort into interviewing. Tough questions test the arguments. His show has aired some strong cases for man made climate change, for example

Have we finally found an issue all PBers can agree on - that QT is shite?

QT is illinformed people giving their slanted views in response to slanted questions..

So much better when an informed interviewer like Andrew Neil asks the questions and can ask suplementary follow up questions.

Andrew Neil is the person who was convinced that the present logjam in forming a government in Germany is the biggest constitutional crisis in Germany since WW2 (which is not just risible but involves forgetting everything in Germany from 1945 to the 1990s) and who believes that UK expertise in building Airbus wings cannot be replicated elsewhere (despite the fact that the Spanish - or is it the French, I can't remember - do exactly the same thing for the tailplane).

Interesting graphs. Also got the Italian election, the German re-run, and the Swedish election, plus the midterms from the US.

Of those, I think the Italian election is the one with the greatest potential to "change the world". Italy is economically moribund, has terrible demographics, and struggles mightily in the Euro. (It's historic system was to have rigid labour markets offset by high inflation and constant devaluations.)

I don't believe - as HYUFD does - that there is a likely Forza Italia, LN, Five Star coalition to depart the Euro. (That's like suggesting there would be a coalition government of Jeremy Corbyn and Daniel Hannan.) But I do think it is reasonably likely that a moderately Eurosceptic party will "win" the Italian elections.

All countries have internal divisions but Italy has never really reconciled to unification *(Cavour/Verdi shout). The Lombard plain is like Bavaria in its worth ethic. The Abruzzo has more in common with the land of the Vandals. Odd really, Sicily and England both had the Norsemen conquer them but they took radically different directions.

*in my view etc. Unlike most on here, I recognise both shades of grey andthe possibility that my opinions are wrong.

I don't know. I think quite a lot of us might recognise the possibility that your opinions are wrong.

Toby Young is an idiot, but that's not the problem. Universities have weaknesses that could be potentially be tackled by an Office for Students. The body would have a clear remit and the means and skills to fill that remit. That the OfS has no clear remit and offers a top job to Toby Young indicates pure cronyism on the part of Jo Johnson and the government.

All countries have internal divisions but Italy has never really reconciled to unification *(Cavour/Verdi shout). The Lombard plain is like Bavaria in its worth ethic. The Abruzzo has more in common with the land of the Vandals. Odd really, Sicily and England both had the Norsemen conquer them but they took radically different directions.

*in my view etc. Unlike most on here, I recognise both shades of grey and the possibility that my opinions are wrong.

I think an emulation of the Italian situation is a moderately probable outcome for Brexit Britain. In my view, shades of grey etc, and in particular noting that not everything about Italy is bad, that it has its Milan, just as the UK has London and also that the situation developed over a long period and not overnight. Nevertheless many Italian elements are present or are becoming present in Britain, that Brexit will probably attenuate: old and tired, poor productivity, lack of innovation, reduced opportunities, inward looking, poor social cohesion, moribund politics. These factors have been somewhat mitigated in the UK by immigration but Brexit, as apparently propagated by our government, aims to change all that.

Otherwise I guess either the UK is qualitatively different from Italy in some way that I am not aware of, or something concrete will happen that prevents the UK becoming like Italy.

Italy has quite high productivity actually and it has been failure to properly control immigration into the UK which has put downward pressure on wages and added to demand for housing and services

Otherwise I guess either the UK is qualitatively different from Italy in some way that I am not aware of, or something concrete will happen that prevents the UK becoming like Italy.

Isn't the qualitative difference, ironically, the greater likelihood of the UK breaking up as a result of Scottish independence and the reunification of Ireland?

The UK is a little more likely to break up than Italy. I suppose the key point is how much English/UK government sensibilities towards Ireland and Scotland will influence their actions. For example would they be minded to stay in the Single Market and Customs Union if that was necessary for a workable Irish outcome? Generally England/the UK are good at ignoring Ireland and Scotland. To be fair it's a policy that usually works better for them than their occasional unhappy interventions in those countries.

Otherwise I guess either the UK is qualitatively different from Italy in some way that I am not aware of, or something concrete will happen that prevents the UK becoming like Italy.

Isn't the qualitative difference, ironically, the greater likelihood of the UK breaking up as a result of Scottish independence and the reunification of Ireland?

According to the latest Italian polls the Lega Nord which wants the North of Italy to break away is on 12% in the national polls, higher than the SNP and SF are in Westminster polls.

Plus of course Spain is more likely to suffer an imminent breakaway from Catalonia than the UK or Italy are to see a breakaway after separatist votes won most seats in their recent regional elections while unionist parties are set for a majority in Holyrood at the next Scottish Parliament elections on the latest polls and Unionist Parties in NI still have more representatives than Nationalist Parties

Interesting graphs. Also got the Italian election, the German re-run, and the Swedish election, plus the midterms from the US.

Of those, I think the Italian election is the one with the greatest potential to "change the world". Italy is economically moribund, has terrible demographics, and struggles mightily in the Euro. (It's historic system was to have rigid labour markets offset by high inflation and constant devaluations.)

I don't believe - as HYUFD does - that there is a likely Forza Italia, LN, Five Star coalition to depart the Euro. (That's like suggesting there would be a coalition government of Jeremy Corbyn and Daniel Hannan.) But I do think it is reasonably likely that a moderately Eurosceptic party will "win" the Italian elections.

Five Star with likely produce the next Italian PM in the form of their charismatic young leader Luigi Di Maio with Berlusconi's coalition also an influence in the background.

Didn’t Nige get all upset when foreigners started getting involved in the UK referendum?

Hypocrite is another adjective we can call Farage.

I'm genuinely confused what on earth is going through his mind. UKIP got what they wanted, but there's still the form of Brexit to fight over, why is he always running around the world trying to stoke these sorts of movements?

Didn’t Nige get all upset when foreigners started getting involved in the UK referendum?

Hypocrite is another adjective we can call Farage.

I'm genuinely confused what on earth is going through his mind. UKIP got what they wanted, but there's still the form of Brexit to fight over, why is he always running around the world trying to stoke these sorts of movements?

Didn’t Nige get all upset when foreigners started getting involved in the UK referendum?

Hypocrite is another adjective we can call Farage.

I'm genuinely confused what on earth is going through his mind. UKIP got what they wanted, but there's still the form of Brexit to fight over, why is he always running around the world trying to stoke these sorts of movements?

He's out of a job next year, and given his Parliamentary performances, such as when he finished third in a two horse race, he needs a job/money to fund his divorces.

He's desperate, and all that crawling to Trump got him the square root of bugger all.

All countries have internal divisions but Italy has never really reconciled to unification *(Cavour/Verdi shout). The Lombard plain is like Bavaria in its worth ethic. The Abruzzo has more in common with the land of the Vandals. Odd really, Sicily and England both had the Norsemen conquer them but they took radically different directions.

*in my view etc. Unlike most on here, I recognise both shades of grey and the possibility that my opinions are wrong.

I think an emulation of the Italian situation is a moderately probable outcome for Brexit Britain. In my view, shades of grey etc, and in particular noting that not everything about Italy is bad, that it has its Milan, just as the UK has London and also that the situation developed over a long period and not overnight. Nevertheless many Italian elements are present or are becoming present in Britain, that Brexit will probably attenuate: old and tired, poor productivity, lack of innovation, reduced opportunities, inward looking, poor social cohesion, moribund politics. These factors have been somewhat mitigated in the UK by immigration but Brexit, as apparently propagated by our government, aims to change all that.

Otherwise I guess either the UK is qualitatively different from Italy in some way that I am not aware of, or something concrete will happen that prevents the UK becoming like Italy.

Didn’t Nige get all upset when foreigners started getting involved in the UK referendum?

Hypocrite is another adjective we can call Farage.

I'm genuinely confused what on earth is going through his mind. UKIP got what they wanted, but there's still the form of Brexit to fight over, why is he always running around the world trying to stoke these sorts of movements?

He's out of a job next year, and given his Parliamentary performances, such as when he finished third in a two horse race, he needs a job/money to fund his divorces.

He's desperate, and all that crawling to Trump got him the square root of bugger all.

The silence on Iran is deafening. Good luck to the protestors. I'm sorry they have been so abandoned by the rest of the world, which is too busy pandering to Islam to stand with them. It won't last. https://t.co/sSzz8836Ya

Didn’t Nige get all upset when foreigners started getting involved in the UK referendum?

Hypocrite is another adjective we can call Farage.

I'm genuinely confused what on earth is going through his mind. UKIP got what they wanted, but there's still the form of Brexit to fight over, why is he always running around the world trying to stoke these sorts of movements?

He's out of a job next year, and given his Parliamentary performances, such as when he finished third in a two horse race, he needs a job/money to fund his divorces.

He's desperate, and all that crawling to Trump got him the square root of bugger all.

The silence on Iran is deafening. Good luck to the protestors. I'm sorry they have been so abandoned by the rest of the world, which is too busy pandering to Islam to stand with them. It won't last. https://t.co/sSzz8836Ya

The silence on Iran is deafening. Good luck to the protestors. I'm sorry they have been so abandoned by the rest of the world, which is too busy pandering to Islam to stand with them. It won't last. https://t.co/sSzz8836Ya

The silence on Iran is deafening. Good luck to the protestors. I'm sorry they have been so abandoned by the rest of the world, which is too busy pandering to Islam to stand with them. It won't last. https://t.co/sSzz8836Ya

Didn’t Nige get all upset when foreigners started getting involved in the UK referendum?

Hypocrite is another adjective we can call Farage.

I'm genuinely confused what on earth is going through his mind. UKIP got what they wanted, but there's still the form of Brexit to fight over, why is he always running around the world trying to stoke these sorts of movements?

He's out of a job next year, and given his Parliamentary performances, such as when he finished third in a two horse race, he needs a job/money to fund his divorces.

He's desperate, and all that crawling to Trump got him the square root of bugger all.

Have we finally found an issue all PBers can agree on - that QT is shite?

QT is illinformed people giving their slanted views in response to slanted questions..

So much better when an informed interviewer like Andrew Neil asks the questions and can ask suplementary follow up questions.

Andrew Neil is the person who was convinced that the present logjam in forming a government in Germany is the biggest constitutional crisis in Germany since WW2 (which is not just risible but involves forgetting everything in Germany from 1945 to the 1990s) and who believes that UK expertise in building Airbus wings cannot be replicated elsewhere (despite the fact that the Spanish - or is it the French, I can't remember - do exactly the same thing for the tailplane).

"Informed" is not the same as "wise".

He certainly strikes me as better informed and wiser than most of the people he interviews.

Didn’t Nige get all upset when foreigners started getting involved in the UK referendum?

Hypocrite is another adjective we can call Farage.

Nigel Farage doesn't give even a single damn about either consistency or principles. Nigel Farage cares first and foremost about Nigel Farage. Hence why when his supposed life's dream (Brexit) was being achieved by the likes of Gove, Johnson, Stuart et al that rather than backing them he was simply pissed off at being excluded.

Does Toby Young think eugenics should be used to screen out low-income foetuses if they are purportedly genetically inclined toward criminality? Imagine if in the days of candlelight and archery, we had screened out short-sightedness.

Have we finally found an issue all PBers can agree on - that QT is shite?

QT is illinformed people giving their slanted views in response to slanted questions..

So much better when an informed interviewer like Andrew Neil asks the questions and can ask suplementary follow up questions.

Andrew Neil is the person who was convinced that the present logjam in forming a government in Germany is the biggest constitutional crisis in Germany since WW2 (which is not just risible but involves forgetting everything in Germany from 1945 to the 1990s) and who believes that UK expertise in building Airbus wings cannot be replicated elsewhere (despite the fact that the Spanish - or is it the French, I can't remember - do exactly the same thing for the tailplane).

"Informed" is not the same as "wise".

He certainly strikes me as better informed and wiser than most of the people he interviews.