The situation at the MH17 crashsite since July 17

MH17 was the first aircraft ever which crash into a warzone. This has a big impact on the investigations into the cause of the crash and who is responsible for downing.

Two seperate investigations are done. The Dutch Safety Board investigates the cause of the crash without looking for who did it. The Dutch prosecution investigates who is responsible for the downing of the aircraft.

When the aircraft crashed the crash location was under full control of the rebels. There is no doubt about that. Many photos and videos show rebels with guns guarding the area and preventing access.

This blog provides an overview of the situation around the crash site since the aircraft crashed.

The situation in East Ukraine at July 16. It is clear the area around the crash site and north of it are controled by the separatists.

For example Debalcevo (Debal’tseve) is clearly controlled by separatists.

Mind after the MH17 crash all of a sudden this area becomes strategically important.

MH17 crashed at July 17 (Thursday) in the afternoon. The Russian tv station Livenews.ru was on the spot as one of the first media. Also some photographers were on site a few hours later.

The OSCE arrived the next day at the scene. The OSCE was in East Ukraine to monitor the war. They were not allowed to enter all fields were debris were located. Especially the area where the cockpit was located was not accessible for OSCE for two days.

At July 18 181 bodies had been recovered. That means bodies found and put near the road. (Trouw)

At July 18 the OCSE the 24-member delegation was given further access Saturday to the crash site but their movements were being limited by the rebels. (Skynews). Bodies were put in bodybags along the road.

At Saturday July 19 most of the bodies who were in bodybags along the road where put into trucks and brought to a trainstation at Torez (Armytimes.com) See also RTL report. Here a photo and report

After a couple of days the rebels became more relaxed. Many photos show fotographers, bystanders and some researchers close to the debris. Reports are that Ukraine aircraft safety experts have been in the area.

A lot of false or incomplete information has been spread, both by Western and Pro Russia media. For example Minister Timmermans told in a speech at the UN Security Council that separatists stole a ring of one of the victims. This was not true. See this video for the other side of the story.

6. Demands that the armed groups in control of the crash site and the
surrounding area refrain from any actions that may compromise the integrity of the
crash site, including by refraining from destroying, moving, or disturbing wreckage,
equipment, debris, personal belongings, or remains, and immediately provide safe,
secure, full and unrestricted access to the site and surrounding area for the
appropriate investigating authorities, the OSCE Special Monitoring Mission and
representatives of other relevant international organizations according to ICAO and
other established procedures;
7. Demands that all military activities, including by armed groups, be
immediately ceased in the immediate area surrounding the crash site to allow for
security and safety of the international investigation;

Meanwhile at July 25 the Dutch newspaper Telegraaf reports about plans of the Netherlands for sending commando troops to secure the site. This never happened and the Dutch government never confirmed plans to send troops.

Malaysia government negotiated with the rebels and because of that the black boxes were handed over. The Malaysia PM told on CNN how he personally negotiated with the rebels.

All the time there were no shellings, no granades and no shootings nearby. The Ukraine army was far away.

After the bodies were removed investigators wanted to enter the crash site. Both the Dutch and Australian Air Force flew in equipment to research the cause of the crash. Fighting then started. Many times it was not possible to enter the crash site. The OSCE had to negotitate with both rebels and Ukraine. Sometimes they managed to get access to the crash site.

The situation at July 21

Around 20-23 July heavy shelling occured at Donetsk. Rebel tanks in the city. Ukraine is intensifying its fights. Here a report by Wall Street Journal

At July 24 BBC reporter Fergal Keane reported on Twitter that the crash site was abandoned. No workers, no guard, just as TV crew.Australia had sent 50 police officers who are in London.

At July 25 all bodies which were found were back in the Netherlands. (NOS)

Around July 26 heavy fighting started between Ukraine forces and the rebels. Ukraine wanted to occupy the crashsite. See Telegraaf. Nu.NL

Ukraine Army passes a small village called Stozhkovo close to the crashsite.

There are reports on fighting near Shakhtersk, the 12th mine area.

The situation at July 28. Ukraine Army starts to fight in a westerly direction to get closer to the crashsite. Max Seddon is a well informed journalist. He writes in this post at Buzzfeed:

Thanks to a new Ukrainian offensive, the crash site is now inaccessible to international experts.

This video was recorded at the end of July. It shows the Ukraine army active north of the crashsite. This blogpost explains the route of the convoy seen in the video.

At July 30 Australian reporter Stephen McDonell explains on tv the situation. He clearly states the fighting has intensified. Ukraine forces believe the world is at their hands and want to force a way into the crash site.

At July 31, two weeks after the crash, investigators were able to work on the crash site for the first time (Telegraaf)

Ukrainian officials said they had suspended offensive operations against the rebels to allow the monitors to reach the site safely. Commanders at Ukrainian military positions near the site confirmed that they had been ordered to halt their advance.

For a couple of days investigations in a limited area were possible. Many locations where debris were found were not accessible. Rebels did not allow access. The red parts on this map (toegang geweigerd) were not allowed to be entered by the investigation team. The map is part of a dedicated website of the Dutch government.

The green parts are searched. The orange parts are unsafe.

About 6 % of the total crash site has been investigated by the Dutch team during the 6 days of recovery of bodies. (RTL)

RTL reports on August 28 the investigation team was hindered by the rebels. Usage of additional sniffing dogs, drones and cranes to lift debris was not allowed. The team was intimidated by rebels carrying guns. If team members picked up objects from the ground, rebels sometimes requested to put those objects back (RTL nieuws)

This photo in this article shows a rebel with gun near investigators. I have also seen many photos with no rebel in the neighborhood.

Sniffing dogs were used at the crash site. Photo is taken from the OCSE website.

At August 6, PM Rutte of the Netherlands announced the team will stop investigating because the situation is too dangerous. (RTLnieuws)

At August 7 Ukraine government suspends ceasefire at MH17 crash site after recovery mission halted (Reuters)

At August 8 Kiev says the cease fire is still in force in the crash site area. (Reuters)

End of August there was a lot of shelling at the crash site according the Russian Ministry of Defense. The Russians accuse the Ukraine Army of destroying evidence.

However at November 16 this blogpost was published on a Pro Ukraine website Ukraine@war. It uses Google Earth photos of September14. It clearly shows burned spots and some trenches.

At September 5 a ceasefire was announced. This was a direct result of the talks between Russia and Ukraine in Belarus. (news.com.au and RT)
At September 10 there was still hope entry of crash site would be possible when ceasefire started (source)

Between September 7 and September 11 several reporters visited the crashsite. For instance Rudy Bouma, Gert Jan Dennekamp, Alec Luhn, Paul Sonne

Paul Son publishes an article in Wall Street Journal describing heavy damage to churches and houses near the crash site.

At September 9 , several journalists were trapped in an artillery shootout between the cities of Khartsyzk and Makiivkato the east of Donetsk, on the way back from the crash site, and were forced to wait in a line of cars as shells whistled overhead. (Foreignpolicy.com)

the major part of the crashsite is quiet, however in the distance are shellings heard.

Also at September 14 OSCE visited the western part of the crash site. Here is the report. A OSCE car was hit by mortars. An interesting part of the report is this

Due to the proximity of the checkpoint and incoming fire, the SMM moved away on the road towards Maloorlivka in order to reach Kirovske, to the south, where the SMM was told it would be escorted by “DPR” representatives to Donetsk through Shakhtarsk. While en route to the “DPR” checkpoint, the SMM observed impacts close to the SMM vehicles, incoming from the north, and aimed at “DPR” positions. The SMM decided to pass through the first “DPR” checkpoint located at the entrance of Kirovske. The SMM could not use the parallel road as the SMM observed that this path was mined.

The map showing the positions of the Ukraine Army and separatists. And here another map of the area at September 14.

Both show that north of where the OSCE was hit by mortars, Ukraine Army had positions. So the shooting at OSCE was likely done by Ukraine troops.

At September 18 someone made a video of 48 minutes at the crash site. Guided by someone of the rebels he was able to film. No fighting heard in the neighborhod.

A large rocket which entered the ground is clearly seen. So there has been heavy fighting in the past.

Vrije Tribune has an overview of the situation since July 17. The Dutch blog describes why geo politics are far more important than finding the truth. When winter comes in it will be impossible to do research. After winter evidence is likely to be too much contaminated.

At September 19 the Netherlands government announces the 30 extra investigators who are in Ukraine waiting to access the crash site are being flown back to the Netherlands. The crashsite is too dangerous to enter. (NRC.nl)

The situation on September 19 at 12:00

OSCE sents a Tweet saying “We’ve now 80 monitors in the region, with many more to come”

Russia reports that Dutch investigators have not been at the crash site and that the preliminary report is too vague and based on photos. A railroad has been repaired to enable transportation of debris. (TASS)

This video shows heavy fighting in the area of the crash site near Nikishino. It is between September 22-26

At September 27 Malaysian minister of Transport said his country would ask the United Nations to send peacekeeping forces to secure the crashsite. However the next day it seemed he should not have said that. Dutch government said Malaysia, Australia and the Netherlands will not ask UN for troops

Around end of September heavy fighting around the airport of Donetsk. Ukraine forces trying to get access to airport. Donetsk still in hands of rebels. (NOS)

The SMM visited the village of Hrabove (70km east of Donetsk) in order to assess the awareness of the local authorities and the local population about the procedures related to the recovery of items and other personal belongings of the passengers of the MH17 plane. In Hrabove and its surroundings, as well as in Rozsypne, the SMM observed leaflets and posters informing the public about the recovery procedure of personal belongings and/or other remains. These were displayed in visible places such as post offices, shops, bus stops, pharmacies, schools, administration offices, churches, checkpoints and neighbourhoods, including information boards. The SMM moved towards Petropavlivka (89km north-east of Donetsk), but was unable to continue further due to security concerns.

At Oktober still heavy fighting around Donetsk. 6 civilians killed at a busstop.

At October 12 Dutch journalist Joost Bosman visited the crash site and made photos. He reported it was quiet.

At October 13 The Ukraine State Emergency Service in Donetsk will collect all personal belongings. They expect to do that in a single day. They will also search for human remains. The SES is controlled by the rebels. The Netherlands say they negotiated using silent diplomacy. The OVSE talked with the SES. The OSCE reported machine guns shooting near the crash site. The OSCE then called the Ukraine commander. OSCE did not know who did the shelling but after the phone call it was quiet. At about 14 km from the site fights were heard.

October 14 no searching for personal belongings and human remains. The safety situation near the crash site is not good according OSCE and the SES. However a Dutch journalist visited the crash site today. We went to Rosypne and Grabova. All quiet. Fightings near Petropavlika. Journalist Joost Bosman writes in newspaper Tubantia: It is indeed dangerous to work at the crashsite. But not impossible. This has been proven by the mission on Monday October 13. Winter is coming and if investigators really want to have results they have to be quick.

At October 15 the village of Petropavlovka is shelled. This village is occupied by the separatists show it is obviously shelling was done by Ukraine army. Other villages in the area (for example where the cockpit crashed) are quiet. Farmers are ploughing their land. Dutch journalist Gert-Jan Dennekamp
was in the area.A photo report of NOS reporter Gert-Jan Denekamp can be seen here.

Malaysia complains about not being allowed access to crash site by separatists.

At October 16 several journalists visited the crash site and filmed. It is very clear this is not a war zone. No shelling or shooting. You seen a tractor of a farmer driving by etc. Rupty, a TV channel part of Russia Today published a short video showing the situation at October 16.Graham Phillips (he is a biased journalist paid by the separatists/Russian government ) went to the crashsite on October 16. He claims to have seen still human remains. (Facebook) Mind this can be propaganda. He also made two videos (video 1) and video 2. Also at October 16 Kini TV published a video with footage taken at the crash site. The video shows civilians walking at the site, a motorcycle passing by.

At October 17 Dutch journalist Gert-Jan Denekamp reports on Twitter: couple of mortars in the neighborhood of Rossipnoje and Petropavlovka. Just when locals want to place a memorial cross at the crash site.

Oktober 19 the Dutch NOS showed an item about a Dutch relative of a MH17 victim. He went to the crash site to find personal belongings. He now understands it is too dangerous to do investigation.NOS reports two of the three villages are pretty quiet. However at Petropavlovka there is still fighting and shelling. Civilians had to stay in the bombshelter for three hours.Accordings NOS shootings were reported in the village of Hrabove (Ukrainian: Грабове; Russian: Грабово, Grabovo, also spelled Grabove) last couple of days.At Oktber 25 Dutch photographer Pierre Crom visits the crashsite. He reports on Instagram

25-10-2014 A large crater left by a rocket is seen on the #mh17 crash site in Grabovo. Multiple explosions were heard during the morning.

Pierre Crom also saw human remains at the site like human bones. See his Tweet

Many fragments of human bones sometimes up to 20cm on the #mh17 crash site

At October 24this video wasd published at Youtube. A young lady walks around the crash site. It certainly is a recent video .

On October 31 a small Dutch mission with local SES and OVSE was able to visit the crash site. Human remains were collected at the burn site.

At November 4 again Dutch people and SES were able to visit the crash site. They found personal belongings and human remains (Telegraaf)
Also on November 5 the team found personal belongings and human remains
at November 6 Dutch experts were on the site to judge which debris are transported to the Netherlands for reconstruction of the aircraft. ( NOS)

At November 10 RTL reporter Jeroen Akkermans visits the crash site. It is all quiet. Villager tell that it has been quiet for weeks. At Donetsk there are heavy fightings and at 30 km there are some shots fired once in a while. Live goes on, there is a market and busses drive.

At November 11 the Dutch mission was at the crash site. However without cranes and trucks so recovery of wreckage was not possible. The area was quiet.

At November 12 the Dutch mission again is at the crash site. Now a crane has been supplied by the local SES. Photo by Jeroen Akkersmans.

At November 16 finally the recovery of the wreckage started.

At November 17,18 and 19 the recovery continued. No shooting, situation was safe.

At November 26 Dutch reporter Harold Doornbos visited the crash site. There were still some smaller debris. First snow was falling.

20 Comments on The situation at the MH17 crashsite since July 17

“Graham Phillips (he is a biased journalist paid by the separatists/Russian government ) went to the crashsite on October 16. He claims to have seen still human remains. (Facebook) Mind this can be propaganda. ” Someone i listening to Ukraine propaganda – Graham is an English blogger who was living in Ukraine when this all started last year. He then began to blog about it. Worked for a short while as stringer for RT – because he was already getting footage, on his own. He was arrested and thrown out of Ukraine but came back, when after speaking to lawyer was told – they had no case. He again began working on his own and just a couple of weeks ago was hired by a different Russian TV station. So unless you are looking to come across as biased, you should delete these types of comments. Patrick Lancaster, an American journalist was with him at the crash site. @PLnewstoday to verify what I am telling you. Please don’t get too sucked into Ukrainian propaganda when working on this. It is too important.
Marilyn Justice, Nova Scotia, Canada

September 9/2014 :
„Hrabove, like Rozsypne, was hit by heavy artillery a few weeks ago. No one was hurt, but the shells hit the village graveyard and a nearby bird farm, according to the village priest, Father Sergei.
Overwhelmingly, people in Hrabove blamed the Ukrainian government and President Petro Poroshenko for the conflict that has now claimed more than 3,000 lives, many of them civilians, according to the United Nation’s most recent statistics.”http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-ukraine-russia-malaysia-flight-20140909-story.html

July 21/2014
„The Malaysian experts were to arrive to Eastern Ukraine on Sunday evening, however they were delayed in Kiev over security concerns.
On Monday, a truce in the 40 km radius zone around the Malaysian Boeing crash site has been agreed with Donetsk self-defense forces, Ukraine’s Prime Minister Arseny Yatsenyuk said. However, according to reports Kiev shelling has not ceased yet, preventing the Malaysian experts in Donetsk getting to the site.“https://www.rt.com/news/174444-malaysian-experts-ukraine-crash/

July 28/2014
„Ukrainian Foreign Minister Pavlo Klimkin denied government forces were fighting rebels in the area and said they were respecting a 40-kilometre (24-mile) unilateral ceasefire perimeter around the crash site. (..)
Government troops killed about 20 rebels and destroyed eight vehicles in Horlivka, Lysenko told a news conference in Kiev. Lysenko said earlier that “Donetsk will be next.”
Ukrainian troops were also fighting in Shakhtersk, about 20 kilometres away from the crash site, local news wire Novosti Donbasa reported yesterday. That would put the fighting right at the edge of the crash’s 40-kilometer ceasefire perimeter.
The UK government said the crash site may have been altered.
“Worryingly, we are aware of information suggesting that separatists were planning to scatter parts of other aircraft on the site,” the UK Foreign Office said in an e-mailed statement.“http://www.themalaymailonline.com/world/article/us-says-satellite-photos-show-russia-shelling-into-ukraine

July 31
Twelve days after MH17 was blown out of the sky, pieces of the plane remain here, but for days investigators haven’t been able to reach the site. On Wednesday, efforts to get to the bottom of the deadly crash hit another roadblock, as Ukrainian officials warned of possible landmines near the site.
In the hour a CNN team spent at the crash site Wednesday, there were no separatists, inspectors or Ukrainian soldiers there.
Just distant smoke that explains why the inspectors’ large convoy has not, for the fourth day running, arrived.
Ukraine’s National Security and Defense Council claimed Wednesday that “terrorists” — the term it uses to describe rebels — have set up firing positions and laid mines on the access road to the crash site of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.
Dutch investigators in Ukraine did not mention mines but announced Wednesday that unsafe conditions kept their contingent from visiting the crash site for the fourth straight day.
CNN could not independently confirm the veracity of the statement by the Ukrainian officials, though CNN’s team traveled to and from the debris field safely Wednesday.
The dangers in the area make the work of international experts “impossible,” the Ukrainian defense council said.
It was the fourth straight day the OSCE has joined the 50-strong team of Dutch and Australian investigators in declaring the region too dangerous to work in.
CNN’s team reported seeing three or four points of smoke from artillery fire. Because the area was militarized before the plane crash, it was not possible to know whether those firing positions were new.
Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte asked Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko in a phone call Tuesday morning to halt the fighting around the crash site so that investigators can access it, Rutte spokesman Jean Fransman said.http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/30/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/

August 2/2014 :
Fresh fighting Saturday around the site of a Malaysian airliner that crashed more than two weeks ago in eastern Ukraine hampered an international team of experts searching for human remains there.
About 70 Dutch and Australian investigators had resumed work for a second straight day when shelling disrupted the cease-fire between Ukrainian soldiers and pro-Russian separatists.
“The artillery impact was very loud and the ground was shaking,” Alexander Hug, deputy chief monitor with the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe mission in Ukraine, was quoted by the French news service AFP.
He estimated the artillery hit about two kilometers away, close enough for investigators to decide to leave that area.http://www.voanews.com/content/international-experts-back-at-plane-crash-site-in-ukraine/1970228.html

Latest from the OSCE Special Monitoring Mission
The SMM, together with Australian and Dutch experts, visited the crash site of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17. The convoy comprised 25 vehicles, including a bus and two mobile ambulances. The crossing of territories controlled by Ukrainian government or the so-called “Donetsk People’s Republic” (“DPR”) or the so-called “Luhansk People’s Republic” (“LPR”) went smoothly and was well organized. The SMM observed a new checkpoint positioned at Mius (14 km south-east of Debaltseve). At the Ukrainian checkpoint in Debaltseve (70 km north-east of Donetsk), the agreed ceasefire seemed to hold. About 10 kilometres south of Mius, the SMM was met by an “LPR” escort, and drove to the main wreckage site. The SMM saw several instances of artillery impacts at 7–10 kilometres southwest of the crash site between 13:03-14:19hrs.http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/122189

August 4/2014 :
Latest from the OSCE Special Monitoring Mission
The SMM, accompanied by 132 Dutch and Australian police and other specialists on 2 August, and by 109 Dutch and Australian police and other specialists on 3 August, accessed various locations associated with the Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 crash in the Donetsk region. On both days, the SMM – at the village of Petropavlivka (7 km south of the main wreckage site at Hrabove, which is 78 km east of Donetsk city) – heard artillery impacts, twice on 2 August (first at a distance of 2 km and the second at a distance of 7-15km); and once on 3 August (at a distance of 3 km). The SMM, whilst in Petropavlivka on 2 August, also heard on two occasions what appeared to be overhead aircraft at high altitude.http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/122234

Published August 11/2014
“Well, we had been hoping that the plane crash would lead to some sort of, perhaps, pause in the fighting. But we didn’t see that”, says Ole Solvang, a Human Rights Watch activist. “You know, it was almost the opposite”. Now rebel presence is scattered throughout the region, manning main road checkpoints and overseeing activity in the central railway station. As the Ukrainian army attempts to seize the city back from its rebel occupiers, civilian casualties are becoming more common. “There has been too much shelling. It was just horrible”, says a local woman trying to escape with her family. With journalists fired upon, tracing the path of the anti-aircraft missiles that downed MH17 proves impossible, and the search for remains at the crash site is suspended.“https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTXaS6dyQaI

Have we so far found any evidence of the actual crash site being shelled as an attempt to destroy the evidence and/or stop investigation.
I mean, do we have video/photos of impact craters that can be geo-located to the crash site.

I see it repeated that “crash site was intensively shelled by Ukrops”. But when I search for details I see only/mainly things like:
“There is fighting going on. We can’t take the risk,” said the deputy chief monitor of the OSCE observer mission.
And I see reports of ONGOING artillery fire that indicates that crash area is used as a shield to shell Ukrainian positions.

If we can see images & geo-locate & date if impact craters we can find out from what direction the shells came from and when.

At the time the OSCE has not made any crater analysis. But you see the crater in some videos and photos. And there are statements of residents that they have been shelled by the ukrainian armee. I think they know best where the shelling came from.

Sotilaspassi: propaganda images? There are many craters to be seen at Google Earth images in the vicinity of crash site. How can you rate this as propaganda? Same as pictures taken from ground level. There are a couple of craters very close to main crash area. Easy to geolocate.

It is a fact Ukraine army started an offensive from Debaltseve towards the crashsite immmediately after the bodies were removed from the crashsite.
I am wondering why. Ukraine clearly violated the UN resolution by this.
We have not heard any objection by Western governments about these actions.

We also pretty sure know Ukraine shelled the area. See the OVSE report. One of their cars was shelled from a location which was under control of Ukraine.
There are various craters in the area. I have asked Bellingcat many times to analyse. Their response was: both parties shelled the area, we do not think this is interesting to further investigate.

I am not saying the separatists did not shell. This needs to be investigated.

(proRUssians used the area to attack UA forces, a lot of outgoing fire was reported, at least some counterfire happened, ceasefire never worked (proRUssians were gaining new border crossing, UA was trying to isolate Donetsk), both sides did things to make the area too dangerous for DSB)