In that same year, 2,604 black individuals were killed by black offenders. And 454 white individuals were killed by black offenders.

As we see, there is cross-racial deadly violence, but offenders mainly cause victims within their own race; it is so-called intra-racial.

What about recent decades? Murders surveyed between 1974 and 2004 show that 52% of the offenders were black, 48% were white. Of the victims, 51% were white, 47% were black.

In that period, 86% of white murders had whites offenders, and 94% of black murders had black offenders.

There may be a hunt by white vigilantes for innocent young black men in Florida — if it exists, the figures show this is a limited phenomenon. Trayvon Martin’s death should be thoroughly investigated and the vigilante should be brought to trial in case he broke the law. But such a crime is an exception.

The main problem for young black men is not violent white men chasing them. It is black on black violence.

The number of net cross-racial violence in 2009 shows that blacks killed more whites than whites killed blacks. To be exact: 245 more.

Leon de Winter is a novelist and columnist for Elsevier Magazine in the Netherlands. His last novel, The Right of Return is a thriller set in Tel Aviv in 2024. He presently lives in Los Angeles.

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1.
BADKarma

Mr. de Winter, what the HELL is wrong with you!??!?! You’re not supposed to do research, and find facts, and ask questions, and stuff!

You’re supposed to obediently accept the Leftist media’s Official Narrative, in which ALL whites are evil, vicious, KKK-loving racists (especially those who live in “red states”); ALL “minorities” (read: “blacks”) are peaceful, innocent, law-abiding, church-going victims; and folks like Jeremiah “To HELL with America” Wright and King Samir “I hate Crackers with every iota of my being” Shabazz are “just expressing an opinion”.

According to Bureau of Justice data for 1976-2005, American blacks, who are only 13 percent of the population, killed 692 whites while non-hispanic whites, who are 72 percent of the population, killed 254 blacks. “This is an
enormous difference indicating blacks are more than 15 times as likely to kill whites than the reverse,” according to the website Destructure

You can’t directly get the probability that an individual is a killer from these statistics unless you make the dumb assumption that every murder is done by a different person. I suppose I should look up how many killings is average per killer.

But under that assumption:

Probability of being a victim:
each white person has a 0.001% chance of being killed by a white person
each white person has a 0.000085% chance of being killed by a black person
each black person has a 0.001% chance of being killed by a white person
each black person has a 0.0066% chance of being killed by a black person

Probability of being a killer (based on the assumption that each killer kills once):
each white person has a 0.001% chance of being the killer of a white person
each white person has a 0.00019% chance of being the killer of a black
each black person has a 0.00052% chance of being the killer of a white
each black person has a 0.0066% chance of being the killer of a black

I am SO impressed. With skills like that, you MUST already work for the Obama regime, and have a degree from one of America’s highest ranking universities; Harvard, if I may be so presumptuous.
Your momma should be proud!
See comment #11.

If one does the math, given the actual percentage of population that is black vs white (13 vs 80), and normalizing the actual murder counts, then whites are killed by blacks at a rate 5 times that of blacks killed by whites… 454 whites killed by 13% of population vs 209 blacks killed by 80% of the population.. Your probability numbers seem incorrect.

That is, normalizing, roughly 35 white people are killed by 1 % of the population (who are black) and 2.6 black people are killed by a comparable 1% of the population who are white. A white persons chance of being killed by a black person is 13.5 times greater than a black being killed by a white. Put another way, if there were the same number of blacks and whites in the population, and given the existing rate of race on race murders, while there were 209 blacks killed by whites there would be more that 1000 whites killed by blacks. I’m therefore less concerned about the plight of the black person being hunted by whites than the other (less PC) plight of white people being hunted by blacks, something the MS Media will never discuss.

It is simply the fact that blacks are killing whites at a rate far greater that whites are killing blacks and to pretend otherwise turns racial animosity on its head, and pretending for a minute that whites are out to kill blacks, if anything, reverses the facts. The truth is inconvenient to the media and the black community that continuously plays the victim instead of recognizing it’s own responsibilities to society. Where are the marches when a white is raped or tortured and murdered by a black person? Are there so many whites that the murder of one just doesn’t matter?

Extremely well stated, “honesty”.
The wages of appeasement can never be satisfied.
Fatal tragedies teach how precious each life is.
The bona fide criminals are the race hustlers and all those appealing to the emotionally immature and vulnerable.

David Schulnik, like our POTUS, is a member of the math-challenged tribe.
Murder rates are usually given for every 100,000 persons, to do away with the very small decimals that Mr. Schulnik has used. Using 305 million for 2009 population, 80% white and 13 % black, we get the following figures:

For 100,000 white persons, 1.21 are killed by a white person
For 100,000 white persons, 0.19 are killed by a black person
For 100,000 black persons, 0.53 are killed by a white person
For 100,000 black persons, 6.53 are killed by a black person

For 100,000 white persons, 1.21 will be the killer of a white person
For 100,000 white persons, 0.09 will be the killer of a black person
For 100,000 black persons, 1.14 will be the killer of a white person
For 100,000 black persons, 6.56 will be the killer of a black person

The outcry over a white murdering a black, in looking at these statistics, would appear to lie in the man bites dog category.

So, Boris, you’re willing to walk alone at night or with your wife/girlfriend or family down the street in a mostly black part of any city in America with a sizable black population? No sane white (or non-black) would consider it. And if you got mugged, the black community would say it’s your fault for being there in the first place.

Actually, this is old news, as others have done the same research over the last few decades. The problem is, black America and liberal white America have refused to accept it, as it does not agree with the narrative of victimhood. However, I’m glad you added your voice to the discussion now, because Americans, both white and black, are beginning to notice how they’ve been bamboozled by “progressivism” and the racial grievance industry.

Given the disparity in populations, that 245 is blown up to trend exactly against this moronic myth that black men are at risk from whites, quite the contrary. It’s the same stupidity as the Duke LaCrosse case. Out of nowhere black Americans suddenly pulled up some dumb urban myth that white guys were fond of raping black women. According to the DOJ, white men have, statistically, virtually no interest in such behavior while the opposite, white women raped by black men, is in the thousands per year.

Welcome to the America of political correctness, where reality is irrelevant and hate-speech against white-folks in the mainstream press is daily. It is simply assumed by large chunks of black Americans as well as many white Liberals on the political Left that whites are intransigent, permanent and incurable racists and for them, that’s the end of the story and facts only get in the way.

“and the vigilante should be brought to trial in case he broke the law” The ‘vigilante” in this case has yet to be charged with a crime. Initial investigation indicates that the “vigilante” was assaulted, stood his ground and fired his weapon in self defense while he lay on his back. EVIDENCE of a crime need be established PRIOR to forcing “vigilante” to stand trial “in case he broke the law”. Typical emo-think that, along with the most racially biased presidential admin in memory are engendering mass hysteria. The left is playing with fire! Back on planet Earth, hispanic dude kills suspicious acting, hooded black man…..big deal.

The “vigilante” stalked Trayvon. When he called in to 911 to report suspicious behavior, he was told to stand down an let the police officers who were sent to investigate take care of it. He refused. I’m not going to speculate about the facts of the case but at the least, the shooter should have been arrested and taken in for questioning. I do not deny that statistics show that blacks are more likely to commit crimes. However, that kid belonged where he was. Had the “vigilante” simple followed the advice of the 911 dispatcher, we would not be having this discussion.

Now I know my comments will be challenged and some of you will label me a bleeding heart liberal who has been brainwashed by the liberally biases media, but whatever. I am a law abiding Citizen who did not go to a rally, did not wear a hoodie, and cringed at the way Sharpton and crew poinced on this. This case is disturbing because it seems that this man’s behavior indicates that he was looking for a confrontation and got it. Now he is hiding behind the stand your ground law when he should not have been a position to stand his ground. Yes there are blacks, particularly poor one, who commit a disproportionate number of crimes. They are also serving an equally disproportionate number of year behind bars.

Eli, there are some new information that you might have missed. Although Zimmerman at first persued Martin, the confrontation took place minutes after Zimmerman had supposively stopped persuing and was heading back to his car. Zimmerman was interviewed (just not arrested) and according to the police who did the original interview evidence was found to support Zimmerman’s claim and nothing (or very little) that went against it.

According to some reports: Zimmerman had several cuts and bruises to the front and back of his head, the back of his sweater was wet and grass-stained like he might have been stuck on his back, ect. Be very careful of the information you are recieving, much like the Rodney King incedent, the news is NOT giving all of the information.

Thank you for these numbers. It’s very interesting.
Dunphy’s article also gives some little publicized facts.

As Krauthammer pointed out tonight … can’t help noticing that the MSM is leaving out the fact that Zimmerman is not white. Curious, isn’t it? (No.)
The fact that he is Hispanic ruins the narrative of oppression by white people.

And, of course, Al Sharpton jumps in to get more and more tempers to flare up (no doubt, he’s hoping for violence) — probably mostly because the name “Zimmerman” sounds like it could be Jewish — fulfilling Sharpton’s anti-semitic fantasies — even though the guy is Hispanic (and I’ve read somewhere, perhaps partially black himself as well).

I wonder how far this is going to go in terms of social unrest? It doesn’t seem to be so “spontaneous” to me, but rather a very deliberate attempt to use this tragedy to rile people up and get them in the mood for protesting — and fill them with anger and hatred. It somehow seems to go along with the Government supported Occupy protests (astro-turfed by the Unions).

The air seems to be getting more tense every day. I think Obama sees that as good for himself and the Radical Left.

So, Mr. Winter; I can surmise from your essay, that blacks are frequenting “white neighborhoods” because they’re safer?
How long will it be before nefarious “whites” can carouse the ghetto’s with equal abandon?
I can’t wait!!! THAT’S REAL FREEDOM!

“Trayvon Martin’s death should be thoroughly investigated and the vigilante should be brought to trial in case he broke the law.”

He’s not a vigilante, because a vigilante is a private citizen who punishes an alleged lawbreaker, and no one (and I MEAN no one) has alleged that Martin broke the law, and there’s no reason to believe that he had.

Zimmerman is an armed private citizen who stalked, provoked a confrontation with and then killed an unarmed minor, who was alleged to be walking down the street. At least that’s what it looks like.

And, he should have been charged under the homicide laws a long time ago.

This moron is “pretty sure” about the baloney he’s spewing, because he’s an ignorant ass who doesn’t have clue one what he’s talking about.

‘Sanford, Florida (CNN) — A lawyer for the man at the center of the Trayvon Martin death investigation said Florida’s “stand your ground” law doesn’t apply to the shooting that killed the unarmed teen.’

‘”In my legal opinion, that’s not really applicable to this case. The statute on ‘stand your ground’ is primarily when you’re in your house,” said Craig Sonner, attorney for George Zimmerman.’

Zimmerman’s attorney is a lot more knowlegable, and does have a pretty good grasp of what he’s talking about.

So, do some of the guys who wrote the law…

‘But the lawmakers who crafted the legislation in 2005 — former Sen. Durell Peaden and current state Rep. Dennis Baxley — said the law doesn’t need to be changed. They believe it has been misapplied in the shooting death of Trayvon by a Sanford crime-watch captain, George Zimmerman.’

‘Zimmerman has not been charged because, police said, it appears he acted in self-defense. The Seminole County state attorney’s office decided Tuesday to take the case before a grand jury.’

‘“They got the goods on him. They need to prosecute whoever shot the kid,” said Peaden, a Crestview Republican who sponsored the deadly force law in 2005. “He has no protection under my law.”’

‘Peaden and Baxley, R-Ocala, say their law is a self-defense act. It says law-abiding people have no duty to retreat from an attacker and can meet “force with force.” Nowhere does it say that a person has a right to confront another.’

‘The 911 tapes strongly suggest Zimmerman overstepped his bounds, they say, when the Sanford neighborhood crime-watch captain said he was following Trayvon and appeared to ignore a police request to stay away.’–Miami Herald

I’ve reviewed both the specifics of the case, including the initial police report, and the Florida statute, and there’s very little chance that Zimmerman, if he’s ever brought to trial, will be able to invoke a stand your ground type defense, no matter what some halfwit is “pretty sure” about.

“For those people keeping score, you can exclude Fantom from your list of civilized, acceptable human beings.”

The man who lives in the condo where the shooting occurred said that he saw Zimmerman on his back on the lawn, screaming for help, with Martin on top of him, beating him. He went inside and called 911, and heard a gunshot. Clearly, Zimmerman fired in self defense.

Who cares what really happened. The jerk played right into Obama’s backroom gang’s plan for a “long hot summer” and race wars. Lynch the idiot, he’s damaged the country, perhaps irreparably.

I’ve been predicting for three years on this forum a pre-election race war in 2012. The MSM and the Demagogues Party comb the news cycle for anything they can use to marshall instant outrage across the country. And by murdering such a good looking young black boy this thick-necked Hispanic moron of a Walter Mitty gave them everything they needed to light the fuse‎. Lyching may be too good for him.

Funny how there’s no eyewitness, yet people are asserting as truth that Martin jumped Zimmerman and Zimmerman shot in self defense. Their proof? Martin was suspended from school for BEING LATE. Yep. That makes him a violent criminal and automatically gives Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt. Not that he’s black, of course not. But that he was, um, chronically late for class. Therefore he deserves to be pursued and shot like a rabid dog. Right.

Statistics mean nothing when it comes to particular incidents. This incident needs to be judged on its own. Did Zimmerman pursue Martin? Did Zimmerman, after reporting his suspicions (and that’s all they ever were) to the police, pursue Martin, force a confrontation, and use lethal force when Martin refused to respond to Zimmerman like a good boy? That’s the question here, regardless of whatever statistics some idiot can look up on the internet.

Any proof of that narrative Sam? I s’pect if Dear lovable Martin was a known individual in that Gated Community, somehow I get the feeling if your “narrative” were true…. I get the feeling Mr Zimmerman…. nosy MR bad bad bad racist Mr Zimmerman would have recognized Dear lovable Trawvon as a great lovable local wonderful … did I say lovable? kid and would not have been alarmed by someone who he did not recognize as being part of the neighborhood.

Course it may just be me who thinks such a nosy individual as Mr Zimmerman would recognise those who frequent his neighborhood.

I don’t notice Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson going after Muslims. Hey, there’s an idea! Zimmerman should declare himself a Muslim — as I understand it he only has to repeat some phrase 3 times — and we can all watch the publicity machine, run by individuals who fear Muslim group solidarity, shut down in a flash…

Seems to me the investigating authorities do indeed suspect that Martin commited the crime of assault for which lethal force was JUSTIFIABLY used to neutralize the threat. Let us know when “your” investigation uncovers evidence that the victim should be arrested, charged, indicted and stand trial “under the homicide laws”. Pesky how the law gets in the way of mindless emotionalism and venemous racialists(Obama/Holder, Dems)who are fiercely supportive of mob rule.

“Seems to me the investigating authorities do indeed suspect that Martin commited the crime of assault for which lethal force was JUSTIFIABLY used to neutralize the threat.”

Well, it seems to me that an armed Zimmerman was stalking and harrassing someone who wasn’t doing anything wrong, and that an unarmed Martin was trying to get away from armed stalker Zimmerman, up until the point Zimmerman confronted Martin and shot him dead.

It also seems to me that the local authorities are a bunch of incompetent halfwits who couldn’t investigate a traffic offense, much less a homicide.

Seems that way to a lot of other people too.

Racist morons, excepted, of course. How it seems to them is that any black kid walking down the street is automatically assumed to be a deadly threat on account of “those people” are violent prone animals, and it’s better to shoot them first and ask questions later.

You’ve alot of specific details for one who wasn’t witness. I don’t know the local authorities. Guess we’ll have to wait until the “real” authorities do their investigation. Meanwhile, when seconds count, the cops are minutes away.

Mr. Martin was inside a gated, let me say that again, GATED community. Meaning that without a gate code or a magnetic key he should not have been inside the gated community. Now mr. Zimmerman (spanish heritage person at the least and there are reports that he isn’t American by birth) should not have followed or attempted to engage Mr. Martin. By doing so he negated any defense he may have had. He called the PD and was recorded using a derogatory term while pursuing Mr. Martin.

Mr. Zimmerman committed murder most likely and as there were/are no forthcoming witnesses stating that he was on the ground being attacked at the time he discharged his weapon and the Sanford PD stated that there were no other witnesses the guy is most likely going to walk. Not because of the castle doctrine law but because it is a hearsay case and the only person who could refute Mr. Zimmerman is dead.

As for those folks calling for the repeal of the castle doctrine law. They are clearly not thinking this through. Because if they did they would understand that the castle doctrine law works for all classes and races of people in the state of Florida. Are they sure they want to wait for the PD to show up and save them when someone is trying to maim and kill them or their children? Did not think so.

Investigating suspicious activity in your immediate environs does NOT “negate” ones right/responsibility to armed self defense.Investigating authorities have preliminarily deemed this a justifiable use of force, NOT murder.

“Now mr. Zimmerman should not have followed or attempted to engage Mr. Martin. ” Zimmerman was a member of the Neighborhood watch. What was he suppose to be watching, reality shows?

“..there were/are no forthcoming witnesses stating that he was on the ground being attacked at the time he discharged his weapon …” The man who lives in the house where the shooting occurred said that he saw Zimmerman, on his back on the lawn, crying for help, with Martin on top if him, beating him, before the shooting.

The number of blacks killed by whites includes blacks killed by hispanics. It would be interesting to see how many of that number is by non-hispanic whites. Los Angeles sees a number of blacks killed by hispanics.

The kid was murdered. It was a real tragedy. I feel sorry for the parents, I can only imagine their anguish. That being said, black America’s embrace of anti-values, ie liberalism, has been stoking the fires of violence and victimhood in the black community for ages. Until reason and individualism are embraced the black “culture” is going to find itself in an unending war of “us against them”, poverty, crime, and all other anti-values that ruin lives. Hatred for whitey and anyone else who succeeds will be criticized and despised. Note to black america; Read AYN RAND, embrace reason, be an individualist. Racism is truly a cancer on society, the remedy is for man to embrace the values of personal resp., character, and integrity.

You got the part about black America “embracing the values of personal responsibility” right. The “murder” part, not so much. Justifiable homicide does NOT a murder make. Preliminary investigation found the dead guy to be the perp. The court of public opinion does not represent due process.

Are you the David S. who used to troll these pages back in 2008? What happened? Axelrod open up the axelturfing piggy bank again? What do they pay you, Davey? $0.05/post?

PJM readers, this is probably the same lib bonehead who liked to troll here before. We’ve been rid of him for some time but now it’s election season again and he’s back. REMEMBER THE FIRST RULE OF TROLL CONTROL: DON’T FEED THE TROLLS!

I doubt if Obama would say the current Trayvon (photo below) would “look like”
his son. The press keeps showing this little boy. He is 6’3″ and 180 pounds.
He also has added a gold grill to his front tooth. I don’t know what happened here, and I am sorry about this families loss, but it looks like another gun grab by Holder/Obama

I agree. Just democraps doing what they do. Using a tawana brawley moment, a gangbanger shot after attacking an innocent homeowner in his own neighborhood. The lying liberal democrats use this to deflect from the truth of how badly President Downgrade has failed.

They do this to get what 91 % Black support? Instead of the ussual 90% they keep on the democrat plantation? LOL.

Funny thing is the racist liberals ave stepped in it this time. It was a Hispanic who is the alleged shooter in this democrat media whipped up frenzey. Wonder how many Hispanic votes the democrats will lose , just to gain 1 % more black votes.

Now factor in the % of race. The age grouping and you have the Trawvon factor. His demographic responsible for for 40 – 50 % of murders, likely lessor crimes are no problem either, … that is a mere 2% of population.

Nothing to see here , move along.

Now take out the “Hispanic” from the White part. And you will fing the two most violent, murderous populations in this country by far.

Can you imagine the shellacking a National Hockey League team would take if it did what the Miami Heat are doing? Wake up; there’s a complete double standard in this country that make criminals look like victims. If an NHL team took some random white person, the zillionth, gunned down in an armed robbery by black thugs, and made an issue of it as black folks killing whites doing nothing but minding their own business, they’d be shut down. How many white people are killing innocent black folks compared to the other way around? This topsy-turvy urban myth Sharpton and nearly the entire black voice in America is pushing around is insane, racist, garbage.

Au contraire, Dave- the only reason this story is important is because the Roseanne Rosannadanna lib media and the Democrat Party thought they found a campaign issue of whites oppressing blacks and ran with it- how sad for them and YOU that the assailant is Hispanic! Meanwhile, 10 dead, 34 wounded in Obamaville last weekend and you race-hustlers ignore it… funny how cheap black lives are to libs.

Obama pays no attention to the Whites killed by Blacks, of which there are a thousand stories. He, his racist buddies, and the MSM turn a blind eye. BUT, one Black teen killed by a Hispanic-Black man, it’s dubbed a White on Black crime, and all hell breaks loose. Our Prez gets involved. Sharpton flies to Florida to incite a riot.

This is the racial violence many of us have foreseen as a part of O’s re-election scheme. We are in the opening skirmishes of a war, and most Americans don’t even know it.

Dave, you surely have put your finger on the crux of the issue. The police have not arrested George Zimmerman, and prosecutors have not charged him with any crimes. They have stated that this is because they do not have any evidence which would enable them to convict him of any crimes. You seem to be aware of conclusive evidence of his guilt. Perhaps you should offer to help out?

SHOUTing will not make your trolling any more convincing. Your argumentation is fallacious and racialist, because that is the best you can do. You are incapable of sober, detached judgment, and it shows – you only pursue an agenda, and it is political. Not legal, not civic, not sincere, for falsehood rules your mind. Can you give references to your protests re: travesty of law when the New Black Panthers case was being swept under the carpet? But that is perhaps too far back, so what about Fast and Furious?

You, lefty idiot, have been trolling this for days now. Like all lefty idiots, you have no capacity for rational thought; you merely run with your emotions and the emotional appeal. You’ve become tiresome in your lefty idiocy.

There is NO evidence that the cops did not investigate. There is plenty of evidence that the cops and DA did not find enough evidence to proceed. I know it might come as a shock to lefty idiots who live in a world of feelings about things, but it does require some modicum of evidence and proof to even reach the probably cause standard for an arrest warrant. It isn’t enough that lefty idiots and racist blacks want him arrested, that’s called mob rule, there has to be at least a minimum threshold of evidence and process to interfere with Mr. Zimmerman’s liberty.

You, Surls, and the poverty pimps are advocating mob rule and I guess you won’t be satisfied until the mob gets their way and has Zimmerman executed. They used to call that lynching.

Apples and oranges. OJ getting off had more to do with the fact that he was a celebrity with money going against an inadequate defense team armed with faulty evidence. BTW, I felt OJ was guilty to begin with and I was disgusted that he got off.

I point out that the 911 dispatcher told Zimmeran to back off. He did not do so. If he had let the police do there job, this would not have happened. All of this is speculation anyway, but it amazes me how a man can be defended so vehemently when he was so clearly in the wrong. Perhaps Martin did attack the Zimmerman. Could some one please tell me how Zimmerman got out of his truck. Assuming he did get out himself, please explain to me why he got out and watt he did when he got out?

Who said the police didn’t investigate? Their inquiry found that a 17yo, 6’3″, 180lb young man was justifiably killed while in the commission of a felonious assault. You may dispute their findings, but at least attempt objectivity. This event is indeed about us all, it has been demonstrated that in areas where criminals are aware that their victims may well be armed, the criminals behave accordingly, an “umbrella effect”. Whether you appreciate it or not, your armed neighbors help keep YOU safer. Think about that next time you see a large man, wearing a hood, acting suspiciously at night, close to your residence.

In fact it is: I could link you to scores of mainstream articles on mainstream sites with mainstream ads that drag in the entirety of the white population of the U.S. including people long dead on this Trayvon story. That’s right, not only am I responsible for this kid but Emmett Till and Jim Crow, slavery too. Enough.

You need to calm down & wait for the results of the Grand Jury investigation. There have been conflicting reports emanating from the media that have contributed to the confusion & controversy. Couple that with the machinations of the race pimps Sharpton, Jackson & our “esteemed” POTUS, & there is a recipe for riots in the streets not seen since the Rodney King debacle. It’s all just plain awful. I cannot wait for Obama to be voted out of office this fall. He has set forth a tone that has served to set back race relations in this country back for decades. Instead of calling for calm & patience (wait for the Grand Jury), he goes on about how a son of his would look like Trayvon. Talk about fanning the flames of rage.

Here’s a quote from an article at a site edited by Obama’s Beer Garden buddy Henry Gates,Jr. with a PBS ad running right next to it.

“We’ve watched as the media and policy makers have heavily overlooked the outright assassinations of countless Black boys and men with little to no significance placed on the value of their lives or the racial implications of why they were murdered.

“It’s enraging when I think of how capriciously Americans shrug their shoulders and turn the other cheek when considering the value of Black life in this country. Institutional and interpersonal racism has left Black America in a very precarious place; just leaving our homes puts us at risk for being assassinated by any self-righteous, gun-yielding neighborhood watchman who deems us suspicious.”

Like all articles Gates oversees at his mainstream hate-speech-lite site, you don’t have to go far to find the real culprit behind everything. White people by the million with no names and faces. Black folks can’t leave their homes cuz of white folks – and aliens. And clouds with weird formations.

This story intimates that white Americans “hunt” black Americans in order to kill them. Nothing could be further from the truth. Look at crime rates and prison population demographics instead of a blaming “murder boogy man”. This story is sad and very misleading as is the usual trash from the media. Crime rates and violent crime are down in all areas of the country except the big cities and a few other areas. Get real about facts!

You can’t directly get the probability that an individual is a killer from these statistics unless you make the dumb assumption that every murder is done by a different person. I suppose I should look up how many killings is average per killer.

But under that assumption:

Probability of being a victim:
each white person has a 0.001% chance of being killed by a white person
each white person has a 0.000085% chance of being killed by a black person
each black person has a 0.001% chance of being killed by a white person
each black person has a 0.0066% chance of being killed by a black person

Probability of being a killer (based on the assumption that the average killer kills once):
each white person has a 0.001% chance of being the killer of a white person
each white person has a 0.00019% chance of being the killer of a black
each black person has a 0.00052% chance of being the killer of a white
each black person has a 0.0066% chance of being the killer of a black

In that same year, 2,604 black individuals were killed by black offenders. And 454 white individuals were killed by black offenders.

”

And correlate that with 2009 population data. Counting Hispanics as “white”. Which conflate two distinct populations but , for sake of argument lets roll with it. Also I doubt the Authors figures separated the euro white from the hispanic/latino white numbers.

So we get the per capita chance that a white kills black. 209/223,553,265 or 0.0000009 , this includes both Euro whites and Hispanic/Latino whites.

Now the per capita chance of Euro whites(that is how the FBI?DOJ crime states do it), as I doubt that Hispanic/Latino whites are computed in the victim states by these figures. Well we get 454/38,929,319 or 0.0000116

Your math is way off. Not to mention the data is crap because it adds both euro white and hispanic/latino white as perps but distinguishes betwixt as victim. So we would have to add to the black kill total the hispanics they kill or take out the blacks killed by hispanics to get a true comparison.

I think you found one error, but you also might have gotten confused by percent signs.

0.0000116 IS the same as 0.001%

The error is that I misread “white individuals were killed by black” as “white individuals killed black” so I got the 209 and 454 reversed.

fixed version:

Probability of being a victim:

each white person has a 0.001% chance of being killed by a white person
each white person has a 0.00019% chance of being killed by a black person
each black person has a 0.0005% chance of being killed by a white person
each black person has a 0.0066% chance of being killed by a black person

Probability of being a killer (based on the assumption that the average killer kills once):
each white person has a 0.001% chance of being the killer of a white person
each white person has a 0.00009% chance of being the killer of a black
each black person has a 0.001% chance of being the killer of a white
each black person has a 0.0066% chance of being the killer of a black

each white person has a 0.001% chance of being the killer of a white person
each black person has a 0.001% chance of being the killer of a white

Note that one point here is that the “realist about race” Fantom was wrong in the previous thread. Each individual black man is no more of a threat to a white man than another white man is so he doesn’t need to be armed to approach one, unless he needs to be armed to approach everyone.

Of course you “misread” ““white individuals were killed by black” as “white individuals killed black”.

That IS your narative.

You see folks. As we have found out. Schulnik is not an honest person. Not even to himself.

Presenting cross data, already known as flawed. That is if you take out the % of murders by hispanics from the white data, whites are far less dangerous to be around. Something we already know. But Schulnik , like the leftwingnut he is refuses to aknowledge. Likewise the data shows that in 2009 blacks committed almost 50% of the total murders. Which brings up the point of another flaw in Schunik’s reasoning. That of the murder reflects the opportunity to victims. Which is simply that if more whites were accessible to blacks.. there would be more dead whites. The reverse is not true unless you add hispanics to the white data which the fbi does. Next to blacks hispanics are the second most violent racial group in the USA.

Of course truth is not a Schulnik specialty. Notice he tried to post this as “anonymous”. Sure he will come with the excuse that was by accident. However we know, by the vast amount of his posting on these two threads that he has no problem with getting it right on placing his name.

Wonder why he posted as “anonymous”? Could be because he knows his lack of truth has cost him all validity as too his opinion.

I didn’t try to post as Anonymous, it just came out that way. Maybe that’s what happens when you forget to put your name in.

Anyway I realize that:

cross killing rates aren’t a really fair estimate of danger

BUT

Your view that meeting blacks is SO dangerous that one should go in guns drawn looking for trouble is nuts. Ok, you’re really phobic of black people, you should stay the hell away from patrolling. Leave that job to people who can be civil who won’t provoke trouble.

I wasn’t so much making a totally serious argument as mocking a self-admitted racist who thinks that making trouble and killing young men who are minding their own business is a GOOD thing.

You said it in this thread

Mr Zimmerman was just a honest man looking out for his Neighborhood. He was attacked by a punk.

Punk dead.

Story ends well.

If it were up to you, every black boy who comes out of a store with candy and a soft drink would be roughed up and possibly shot. And the dead ones, good riddance.

I won’t describe you because insults are against the rules.

I recommend you wear a kevlar vest when you’re in safeway, you don’t know when those inferior races will take a pot-shot. Maybe the kid behind the counter is packing. You better let him know you’re no cream puff!

There are nearly 1 million blacks in prison. That means there 1 out of 16 black males are pos animals. There are 100,000 whites in prison. That means 1 out of 800 is that same kind of pos.

That means that blacks are the most violent to be around by far. It is not even close. You are delusional or just a far left lair. As the facts show.

Likewise it is blacks who have had several “beat whitie nights” at recent state fairs. It is blacks who flash mob for the knockout game. It is blacks who pull random whites out of cars in 2001 Cincinnati. The black leaders refused to help identify the perps. That is no different than the KKK.

Fear , no. I go hiking deep into Grizzly territory upon occasion too. I am appropriately armed for an encounter. Anytime I am around dangerous beasts I am properly armed.

“There are nearly 1 million blacks in prison. That means there 1 out of 16 black males are pos animals. There are 100,000 whites in prison. That means 1 out of 800 is that same kind of pos.”

Baloney.

If you’re interested in the subject, and you don’t want to get your information from some drooling nitwit, who gets his facts wrong pretty much every time, the DOJ has issued a report on prison populations…

The numbers you see in there are probably a bit more accurate than the figures presented by our resident spokesman for the KKK, who most likely pulled those numbers out of a place where decent people don’t usually stick their fingers.

Whether or not you think everyone in the lock-up is a “pos animal” is just a matter of opinion, I reckon.

My opinion is that there are plenty of “pos animals” in jail, and plenty out of jail.

Well BS, I can for one acknowledge when I have made error. I took those numbers from a FBI site, I was surprised that they were that low, it did not match my memory on this subject.

So the correction would be that 1 in 16 blacks are currently in prison and somewhere between 1 in 80 -1 in 120 white males are in prison. Yeah , one is just as likely to be faced with a white pos as a black. Huh BS.

That is actual evidence which race is criminal and violent. 1 in 16 wow, now even the NAACP, as racist as they are , admits that 1 in 6 blacks are pos criminals. And those are only the ones who have been caught. 1 in 6 and you wonder why decent people go armed around such populations of violent criminals.

An excerpt:”The nationwide clamor for an arrest notwithstanding, the lead prosecutor in the Trayvon Martin case tells ABC News that convicting his killer, the neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman, could prove difficult.

“The stand-your-ground law is one portion of justifiable use of deadly force,” veteran State Attorney Angela Corey said. “And what that means is that the state must go forward and be able to prove it’s case beyond a reasonable doubt… So it makes the case in general more difficult than a normal criminal case.” ”

You see the lead prosecuter says that the “Stand your ground” law applies in this case. SO can you now admit you were wrong… or are you the liar here.

Reading the comments to this article make me sick. Everybody reads a few lines about a shooting somewhere and all of a sudden they are experts on what happened. The truth is not found in headlines, the truth is found in details, and none of you idiots knows the details of what happened. You are behaving just like a lynch mob. Two men met in the dark and one got shot. Go home and go to bed.

The Obama administration now has a conundrum. The victim was black and the shooter hispanic. Even NPR this morning was reporting the shooter as hispanic. It is an election year and Obama needs hispanic votes. Which way will he go?

Why is it that when a black kills a black there is not the same emotion, strikes, walk outs, hand wringing and gnashing of teeth? How many young blacks have been murdered by other blacks in gang fighting and nobody says a word? Why is it that when a white American kills a black, it is automatically something racial? Good Americans are being, once again, led to the gallows for the umpteenth time for our guilt lessons. I am sick of it.

And how come we white Americans do not march, strike or participate in walk outs when a black murders a white American for instance the white couple in Nashville, TN who were kidnapped, raped and murdered….Where were the calls of hate crime, black racism, etc and where was OUR disgust in blacks. Have we been so cowered into believing our guilt that the death of white Americans can be shrugged off. Well I am getting sick of it.

If black America wants a race war so be it. Bring it on. It’s about time.

I think you’re talking about this case, which was actually in Knoxville…

“After a jury trial Lemaricus Davidson was sentenced to death by lethal injection and Letalvis Cobbins and George Thomas were sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. Vanessa Coleman has been convicted of facilitating the crimes and sentenced to 53 years in prison, and Eric Dewayne Boyd has been convicted of federal charges as accessory after the fact to carjacking and sentenced to 18 years in prison…”–wiki

The perpetrators were arrested, tried, convicted, and hopefully will be punished, though if it was up to me, they would all be executed.

People aren’t protesting, because of the way it turned out, I reckon. If they’d walked, I think a lot of people would have been screaming bloody murder, which they might still do, because I hear the convictions have been overturned due to judicial misbehavior.

Dave Surls aka David Schulnik? I must admit you do a masterful job of stimulating lively dialog/debate. Good work in reality, even if a little annoying. I live near Knoxville, TN. Honest people must recognize, that in the modern era, the vicious depravity of black v white violent crimes is remarkable. The current political climate combined with the general passivity of your “average white person” suggests that this trend will continue, especially in urban America. Gun and ammo sales says something. Thanks for the back and forth, Democrat Strategist.

No, we’re two different guys, with similar views on this particular case, and the same initials.

I’ll take the rest of your remarks as a compliment, and apologize for being annoying.

However, if you think I’m a strategist for the Democrats, you couldn’t possibly be more wrong. I wouldn’t urinate in the face of the Democrat Party if it was on fire, much less assist in formulating strategies for them…unless the strategy involved having them walk en masse into the middle of a busy freeway. That I might help with.

and the tacit approval to murder implied in the sale and failure to interdict.

yet, the rage for these lives? are they less important than Trayvon? I guess that the only way for the media to ignore Trayvon Martin’s death is to find evidence that the gun used in the murder is linked to Fast & Furious, right?

Until the New York Times, The Washington Post and the L.A. Times care about the most brutal murders in modern American history committed by savages, I think the hooded members of the Miami Heat should be kicked out of the NBA, one and all for being recklessly ignorant.

Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom. The same people that swept their murders under a rug, now are trying to make political hay of the Florida death.

Obama’s a racist. And every day he demonstrates what a lying sack of dirt he really is.

Amen sisiter. Obama/Holder veritably seeth with hatred. Their entire personas(politically and personally) are idenity based. Holder openly claimed that he did not anticipate a time when America could return to equal application of the law to blacks v whites(ie an end to reverse discrimination), no suprise really. Join me and a majority of Americans, including many blacks, in ceaseless prayer/meditation(positive) focusing pointedly on the political defeat of the Obamanation this Fall!!

Note how the LV article say a bullet “grazed” one man’s leg and it was a “relatively minor physical wound(s).” That’s my brother, as nice a guy as you’d want to meet. As one of the LEAST affected the article suggests but I can tell you he’s never been the same. He can barely walk and he “retired” cuz he can’t bend his leg. He uses a cane and sometimes falls down walking outside. He was traumatized so he can’t even think about that day. His life is in tatters.

In short, screw the Million-Hoodie March. They are statistical liars who minimize their own depraved culture of violence celebrated in song. They might as well be holding up “Mein Kampf” as posters as far as I am concerned such is their filthy disproportionate lying. I’m actually proud no one I associate with would do such a thing. I’d never huddle by race and do such a thing, despite a provocation much greater than these hooded protesters. They’re protesting themselves – they’re just too stupid and racist to know it.

On the day they hold up pix of those young English men, that’s the day I’ll listen. As for the mainstream media, they’re ivory tower morons without the slightest sense of context or proportion. Blacks could kill whites 10 to 1 and they’d still drag out Emmet Till as a “sign” of what’s “really” happening; in fact, according to demographics, they pretty much do but somehow have a deluded view things are the exact opposite, that whites are committing some genocide on blacks. If science and truth worked like the hoodie march, Columbus would have fallen off the edge of the Earth and Europeans would’ve rioted holding up pictures of dragons. I’ll never watch the Miami Heat again. I hope they lose every game they ever play.

Obama and his ilk have set race relations so far back in America it’s incredible. Black racists have been popping out of the woodwork, emboldened by Obama and what he got away with despite being in a black KKK church for 20 years. Emboldened by Holder’s “my people” remarks and his naked racial advocacy that has been unchallenged in the MSM.

If you ever wondered how Nazi Germany came about, it was by sad racial myths bruited about as “truths” with the connivance of the larger bureaucracy and so an entire nation of people were little by little emboldened by lies and their own fake anger. I just thank God hoodies are too stupid to build tanks. Can anyone look at the lie that is this million-hoodie march and see what it would really be if whites were 10% of the population? It’d by Crystal Night.

In fact, the persecution blacks refer to every day, including a sad open letter “to my unborn child” at one black website owned by the Washington Post today where she tells her kid it’ll be killed by whites (police, surprise), is a complete myth. White people are not terrorizing blacks in any way, shape or form. If that were true they’d emigrate out. I know I would. Hell, I might create my own country. They don’t cuz it’s bullsh-t. But black Americans don’t have to do what Jews did, they have all of Africa to live in should they wish to be judged by the content of their character. The hoodies don’t, they want to have their cake and eat it too.

Question. In the first case, a suspect was charged, correct? In the second, a suspect has not been identified, correct?

While tragic, your examples are not quite the same. While the publicity may not be there, when blacks commit these crimes, they are prosecuted when caught. The Trayvon Martin case is really about whether or not the police are allowing a man who may have committed a crime off. All of this talk of who are the the real victims is obscuring the real issue.

There are far more factor at work here than race when talking about crime statistics. Social economics for one also play a factor. Education and parenting can’t be ignored either. Both liberals and conservatives need to take a breath and let the grand jury do its job.

Well, they may be prosecuted but that’s not the point is it? The point is that why aren’t black folks marching over injustice and crime in general, not just when they perceive it happening to them? The elephant in the room here is that black Americans only really think about black Americans. Everyone and everything else is either a racist or invisible. You’ll see white and black folks holding vigils when a black man is executed in prison, you’ll only see white folks when a white guy gets it. Even that moron Obama built a frickin’ basketball court at the White House within a month of taking office and his inauguration was like the Apollo. All it lacked is guys in zoot suits playing craps. Who makes these stereotypes – me? Couldn’t he have built a hockey rink?

In other words you have a culture with no interest in the concept of the greater good whining that a culture that in fact demonstrably does have such an interest is the opposite. It’s delusion piled on urban myths with a big helping of plain stupidity. Were this black culture as typified by the Hoodie march, the Miami Heat’s response, the usual suspects, Sharpton, etc., in the majority, do you really think they would be in any way capable of creating a Bill of Rights, and respecting it? Really?

Even Egyptians in 2012 are completely incapable of creating such a document, an issue going on as I write, and they look like erudite and cultured scholars next to the misfits at The Root, United Trinity Church as well as James Cone, Melissa Harris-Perry, Tavis Smiley and Cornel West not to mention the depravity and debauchery of rap and it’s hip-hop culture. If anyone in Egypt behaved like black men and women behave on the streets of every major American city every day, they’d be lynched. I could tape a frickin’ hundred dollar bill to my head in the black Egyptian cities of Aswan and Abu Simbel and walk around at 3 AM without a problem. Try that in broad daylight on a number 5 or 21 bus where I’m from.

Black Egyptians are far poorer, far less violent and far more cultured than American black folks, generally speaking.

Rachel, I couldn’t agree more. The deliberate choice by the MSM to ignore the Christian/Newsom murders and the Wichita Horror murders speaks volumes about their contempt and hatred for white Americans. If the tables had been turned someone on Mars would have heard about those atrocities.

My contempt for the MSM knows no bounds. There should be a bounty on them.

When the likes of Sharpton, Jackson, and Farrakhan are making definitive and incendiary statements about a case, my instincts tell me to reserve judgement, with a strong burden of proof required to believe those race-baiting scam artists.

Why? to divert the press so they won’t notice the 37 shootings and nine murders last weekend in Chicago, the discovery that Corzine lied to congress about where he mislaid that 200 million dollars, or that a couple thousand Catholics are out there protesting that that their religious beliefs are being threatened.

and the perpetrator looks more like his Peruvian mother (Amerindian) than his Anglo father (German ethnicity).

Super observation. As any honest debate will ascede, since this episode is being shamelessly promoted as a race based crime, it does seem relavent to articulate the heritage of the yet to be charged victim/perp. Since the shooter is anglo-aboriginal, without overt evidence of any “blackness”, he must be charged with a “hate crime”, since the perp/victim was so beautifully black. tioedong is all over this, it’s all about “identity rage” in the streets as Obama’s political future grows increasinly bleak.

It’s worse than that. Zimmerman actually was defending himself from Martin. Martin actually did attack. The shooting actually was justified. This is all in the facts released by the Sanford police. Not one major media outlet has seen fit to actually publish these facts:

So if I understand the 2009 murder statistics, 13 percent of the population, black, committed 3058murders, while 80 percent, white/Hispanic committed 3158 murders. that is quite instructive don’t you think???

come on now.. let’s not be too harsh on obama’s son.. if that man at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. isn’t trying very hard to start a race war I just don’t get what he is trying to do.. hate and envy is the order of the day everyday at the whitehouse.. holder, you’re right there is racist cowardice in the USA and it’s emanating from the whitehouse….and the DOJ

454 Whites were killed by Blacks 209 Blacks were killed by Whites. Already we have 13% of the population killing over twice what 80% kills. But to continue with the arithmetic. Adjusting for relative population

454 x 80/13 = 2794 That’s the number of cross racial killings blacks would mathematically have committed if our populations were equal, and the violence rates unchanged.

2794 / 204 = 13.70 That indicates that Blacks are thirteen times more murderous. Not 14% more, but nearly FOURTEEN TIMES.

Black on Black statistics are bad, but not nearly so bad.

2604 x 80/13 = 16,024

16,024/2963 = 5.41% more murderous toward each other than Whites are.

Now some of the disparity is because we give them more targets, but the greater part of this is the direct result of the Liberal Culture of Hate and Violence. A culture of hate and violence that Liberals are using to whip up more hate and more violence.

Your numbers work on the assumption that if the number of blacks in this country were increased that the increase would be those who are criminals. Your math works mathematically, but the math cannot tell the whole story when talking suppositions.

Perhaps there are other factors to be taken in consideration when trying to explain the lopsided numbers. Most murders are secondary crimes. A person breaks in to a house to burgularize it. Owner is home or walks in and suprised thief kills owner. Or mugger shoots victim during robbery. Also, you need to take social economic status into account. Poor people steal and deal drugs to get money. As we all know, there are a higher percentage of Black people under the poverty line than whites, so it stands to reason that a higher percentage of blacks will engage in these criminal activities. Assuming a poor Black person buys into the stereotype that white people have money, who will he or she most likely target for larceny?

Urban areas also tend to be places of greater violence. It seems to basic human nature to become increasingly violent and space and resources become less avaiable. Urban areas have always had higher crime rates going back to the beginnings of civilization.

I’m curious to see how the numbers change when you look at suburban Blacks living above the poverty line in comparison to inner city Blacks living below it. One sad and unforseen consequence of desegregation is that those who could afford to do so, moved in to nicer areas and left their old communities behind, taking their capital with them. “Ghetto flight” still happens today, thus creating a vicious cycle in which poor communities get poorer and more degradated. I have done some preliminary looking around and the evidence seems to point toward the idea that the higher your social status, the less likely you are to be victimized by and the less likely you are to be a perpetrator a violent crime in the first place.

And please don’t ask me to prove it because I am not interested in writing a master’s thesis. Do the research yourself and feel free to post it. I just hope reliable statistics are quoted and I hope said statistics are not reported in a biased manner.

Since everybody has their theory of what transpired between Treyvon and George;
Mine describes the blood on Georges face coming from Treyvon being on top of him when shot. George was easily overcome by Treyvon since he was heavier and physically superior to the older Mr. Zimmerman.
ANYONE in a GATED community can expect to be followed and observed by anyone acting as a civilian crime watch member, especially if you are UNKNOWN in the community.
In this case, the local police have declared this activity necessary due to the record of previous crimes and criminal activity.
Mr. Zimmerman has been described as a vigilante, when actually the description of “vigilante” depicts the actions of the lynch-mob media and race terrorists.

In years past, Florida had an inordinate number of individuals in prison for “manslaughter in self defense”. Even some cases of home invasion.
The new legislation was enacted to re-establish the rights of individuals in threat of bodily harm from an attacker.

In the situation between Martin and Zimmerman, all evidence, and witness reports, support the rights and actions of Mr. Zimmerman, however tragic and undesirable the result.

It appears that Mr. Zimmerman, and a local official or two, will have to be made sacrificial lambs for the simple purpose of satisfying the “lust for revenge” and Race Terrorists of Farrakhan, Sharpton, and the lynch-mob media. This is in keeping with past sacrifices to promote “racial healing’, that will only last until they get fired up at the next incident that receives the focus of the Race Industry.
And so the merry-go-round continues; Life goes on; And nothing really changes.
People refuse to learn and elevate themselves from insubordinate, recalcitrant, juveniles, always looking for absolution from their adolescent behavior.

I can relate, having a relative murdered, and a neighbor assaulted and robbed, spending the next 4 weeks in a hospital. Did I mention the perps were black? I’m still waiting for the ‘Justice Brothers’ to march and shout on their behalf…oh, wait…the victims were white.

This is yet another example of the left politicizing a tragedy. Remember Gabriel Giffords? Race hustlers shamelessly jump on these events to validate their agenda, even when such events are rare. Then, we have the New Black Panthers’circulating a “Wanted: Dead or Alive” poster for Zimmerman. I believe they just fell off the moral high road with a thud. Here’s the link on the poster.

I find the actions of the media quite obscene and irresponsible in the way they fuel speculation as they spread a mixture of truth, half-truths and lies. I have noticed a steady decline in the standards of newspapers over the past 50 years when I first started reading a daily newspaper. I find radio and television news even worse – we can reread a newspaper article but we do not usually have a copy of the broadcast item. It is time for honest people to expose and shame the journalists that deceive the public and who are supportive of deceiving politicians. If we do not do this the real victim is truth.

Really? You find “truth” in mainstream media stories? Actually, the bias is quite apparent. It has been a long-term issue (“All the News Not Fit to Print”), it permeates our most revered outlets (“Gray Lady Down”), and it is clearly biased to the left (“Left Turn”).

The only reason Hispanics are included with whites(which they are) is because it lessens the impact of Hispanic statistics. Hispanics, most aliens, commit about 28% of the murders. The DOJ does breakout the Hispanic statistics, but on a different link. There is an obvious attempt to hide the stat because so many perps are aliens, the vast majority illegal.

#29 Mike2
“The Obama administration now has a conundrum. The victim was black and the shooter hispanic. Even NPR this morning was reporting the shooter as hispanic. It is an election year and Obama needs hispanic votes. Which way will he go?”

The activists who want to railroad Zimmerman describe him as a “white hispanic.” His relatives, trying to get him out from under a bias crimes indictment, state he is mexican hispanic (a doubly protected ethnic group).

The fact that different laws seem to apply depending on the ethincity of those involved speaks to how corrupt our society is.

Interesting details I read in the police report run in the Miami Herald:

Martin family’s lawyer has had Tayvon’s school records sealed.

Tayvon’s father said he had Tayvon come visit him during his week’s suspension from school “to help him get his priorities straight.” (That doesn’t sound like tardiness to class. Additionally, no school I’ve ever heard of gave even 3 days of out of school suspension for anything less than a bad fight, drugs or weapons).

Tayvon’s girlfriend who was talking with him on the phone told police it was NOT Tayvon’s voice she heard screaming for help.That matches the witness’s statement.

Arresting Zimmermann without more conclusive evidence would be setting a very dangerous precedent that you are guilty until proven innocent if you’re involved in a situation that leads to the death of a Black.

Hopefully the police will do a good job with this investigation. I know I don’t like Zimmermann’s looks, but we must follow our rule of law. He should not be arrested until the police find evidence that does not jive with the statements made by the girlfriend and the witness. It is very possible that two unsavory characters got in an altercation, and the one with the gun won.

Whatever this is, it is NOT a White on Black crime.

Whatever truth emerges, Sharpton and our unpresidential Prez should shut up. Obama is shameless. Guess this is another situation where ” the police acted stupidly” where a Black is involved.

There is a witness statement that verifies Zimmermans account and the witness is being shielded from threats from the Black Panthers and other racially motivated individuals and groups that are threatening terrorism and murder if they don’t get their way:

Fellow Citizens:
There has been a lot of media attention to the recent incident where George
Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon Martin. This is indeed a tragic situation and has
caused a flood of questions and strong emotions from within our community, the region
and nation. On behalf of the employees of the City of Sanford, Our deepest sympathy
and prayers go out to the family and friends of Trayvon Martin. As a father, I can only
image the pain Trayvon’s family must be going through. The City of Sanford is
committed to insuring that justice is served and, therefore, the City of Sanford has
contacted the United States Attorney General’s Office for assistance in this matter.
In an effort to continue to be as responsive as possible to the public seeking information on
the incident, I have asked Chief Lee to provide answers to some of the most frequently
asked questions regarding this matter. Below are his responses. Please understand that
since this is still an ongoing investigation, the Police Department is limited in what
information it can publicly release.
The men and women of the Sanford Police Department extend our heartfelt
sympathies to the Martin family. This is indeed a tragic situation. The death of
anyone due to violence, especially a 17 year old young man, is morally appalling. As
this incident has generated a lot of media attention, we wanted to provide answers to
some of the most frequently asked questions.
Why was George Zimmerman not arrested the night of the shooting?
When the Sanford Police Department arrived at the scene of the incident, Mr.
Zimmerman provided a statement claiming he acted in self defense which at the time
was supported by physical evidence and testimony. By Florida Statute, law
enforcement was PROHIBITED from making an arrest based on the facts and
circumstances they had at the time. Additionally, when any police officer makes an
arrest for any reason, the officer MUST swear and affirm that he/she is making the
arrest in good faith and with probable cause. If the arrest is done maliciously and in
bad faith, the officer and the City may be held liable.
According to Florida Statute 776.032 :
776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use
of force.—
(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is
justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action
for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law
enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance
of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance
with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have
known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the
term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or
prosecuting the defendant.
(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the
use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the
person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the
force that was used was unlawful.
Why weren’t the 911 tapes initially released?
There are exemptions to the public records laws for active criminal intelligence and
for ongoing investigations. In this instance, the 911 calls made by neighbors in the
subdivision, and the non-emergency call made by Mr. Zimmerman are all key to the
investigation by Sanford Police Department. In consultation with the Office of the
State Attorney, the Sanford police department had decided not to release the audio
recordings of the 911 calls due to the ongoing investigation. Many times, specific
information is contained in those recordings which is vital to the integrity of the
investigation. At the time, it was determined that if revealed, the information may
compromise the integrity of the investigation prior to its completion. The 911 tapes
have since been released.
Why did Mr. Zimmerman have a firearm in his possession while acting in the
role of a neighborhood watch member?
Mr. Zimmerman holds a concealed weapon permit issued from the State of Florida.
He is authorized to carry the weapon in a concealed manner wherever Florida
Statute dictates. Neighborhood Watch programs are designed for members of a
neighborhood to be “eyes and ears” for police and to watch out for their neighbors.
They are not members of the Police Department nor are they vigilantes. Training
provided by law enforcement agencies to Neighborhood Watch organizations
stresses non-contact surveillance of suspicious situations and notifying police of
those situations so that law enforcement can respond and take control of the
situation.
Mr. Zimmerman was not acting outside the legal boundaries of Florida Statute by
carrying his weapon when this incident occurred. He was in fact on a personal
errand in his vehicle when he observed Mr. Martin in the community and called the
Sanford Police Department.
If Zimmerman was told not to continue to follow Trayvon, can that be
considered in this investigation?
Yes it will; however, the telecommunications call taker asked Zimmerman “are you
following him”. Zimmerman replied, “yes”. The call taker stated “you don’t need to do
that”. The call taker’s suggestion is not a lawful order that Mr. Zimmerman would be
required to follow. Zimmerman’s statement was that he had lost sight of Trayvon and
was returning to his truck to meet the police officer when he says he was attacked by
Trayvon.
Why was George Zimmerman labeled as “squeaky clean” when in fact he has
a prior arrest history?
In one of the initial meetings with the father of the victim the investigator related to
him the account that Mr. Zimmerman provided of the incident. At that time the
investigator said that Mr. Zimmerman portrayed himself to be “squeaky clean”. We
are aware of the background information regarding both individuals involved in this
event. We believe Mr. Martin may have misconstrued this information.
What about media reenactments of the shooting incident?
Any media reenactments of the shooting incident are purely speculation. To date the
Sanford Police Department has not released any rendition of the events of the
evening to anyone other than the Office of the State Attorney. The renditions we
have seen are not consistent with the evidence in this case.
The Sanford Police Department has conducted a complete and fair investigation of
this incident. We have provided the results of our investigation to the Office of the
State Attorney for their review and consideration for possible criminal prosecution.
Although the Police Department is the target of the troubling questions, let me
assure you we too feel the pain of this senseless tragedy that has dramatically
affected our community. Therefore, as we move forward and strive to answer the
questions that are a point of controversy in the community, we ask for your patience,
understanding and assistance in getting the correct information to the community
We trust that this information is helpful to you.
Norton N. Bonaparte, Jr., ICMA-CM
City Manager
March 23, 2012

Mr. Bonaparte;
Thank you, thank you, thank you for posting that response.
As you can see, there are many here that are aware of the extremely difficult situation you have been forced into. You have our sympathy and support in the enormous challenges being placed upon you by the members of the mob and media attempting to influence your appointed duties.
We understand that your professional responsibilities receive pressure from certain advocacy groups intent on compelling retribution in the form of “justice”.
The civil unrest and calls for retribution need the full force of the law applied to them in the same professional and unbiased manner. No leniency can be acceptable to anyone prosecuted for involvement in the vengeance of this case.
It is refreshing to see someone take the time to post such a responsible comment.
Our support and prayers are with you, your co-workers, and families.
Again, I thank you for maintaining your admirable position of professional maturity in the face of immense pressure.

I have just watched a CNN report on the developments around the Tayvon Martin killing. I believe that the way they are reporting – the gossip and rumours, intrusion of unrelated information, justification of public anger – may ultimately undermine the course of justice. How can the media be allowed to do such things with no accountability and consequences?

I’m more than Puzzled, Outsider I’m outraged at the espionage and terrorism these organizations and individuals are propagating, inciting, and allowed to engage in.
They are really inciting national riots and racial murders to cap off the tragedy already experienced by the families involved.
Will all the murders and other race crimes be reported about?
NO; NOT A CHANCE.
Any personal injuries, property damage, or murders committed as revenge for this incident should be prosecuted no less severely than the original incident, with no leniency permitted.
Just because we have a clan of irresponsible, juvenile, and recalcitrant leaders and supervisors in the highest levels of government using their positions to incite more racial strife and civil unrest , doesn’t mean “We The People” have to sit by like helpless pawns, and let these racial terrorists gat away with more crimes.
They want more blood spilled as revenge, and they will very likely get their wish. But, the blood sacrificed will be mingled with their own anywhere they wish to engage in their retribution.

They are demonstrating precisely why the “Stand Your Ground” and “Castle Doctrine” were enacted into law in the first place. And why concealed/carry permits are being issued at a record pace.

You can be sure that I will be going to work, avoiding all scenes of possible trouble, not caring what happens in my neighborhood, coming home and locking the doors from here on out.

Do not come to my door looking for donations, signatures, help from your attacker, to sell something or any interaction from me.

Do not look for me to aid my fellow man in any way.

Even GW Bush has said the Texas Castle Doctrine should never apply in the Martin case. An ex-Pres has weighed in.

Why?

Because from ALL of the evidence to date if I intervene and have to defend myself and that perp is not of my race then I will be charged, tried, convicted, sentenced and that sentence carried out by minority mob rule before the authorities can even finish their investigation.

Duke LaCrosse team, and rush to judgement, and when the facts came out those that wanted that rush to judgment never apoligized for being wrong, and harming so many because they really didn’t want the facts, they wanted a story to fit their bias.

Now we have this case, and in a seldom reported story, there is a witness who gives credance that the way the dead boy is being portrayed is far from being the truth, and the angelic picture may be far from the reality of what he looked like that evening.

And do we really need the race hustlers telling us to rush to convict, while we look at a muslim army officer that killed several and wounded more and there is no similar rush.

I’m in 100% agreement with you. Providing a similar response in PJM’s other article a moment ago.

Let’s suppose the Sanford PD charged Zimmerman with a murder charge (pick any of the applicable ‘degrees’) that sadly many tunnel-visioned Illiberals envision. THEN the evidence collected PROVES Zimmerman’s innocence afterward.

I don’t encourage the sue mentality inundating our nation though dollars to donuts Zimmerman would have a lawsuit thrown the PD’s way lickety-split if such charges, end results occurred.

The unhinged emotional comments from this and myriad of other sites is breathtaking.

I’ll possess the same sentiment if evidence suggests guilt and Zimmerman is later charged with a crime. Due process is a right that can’t be taken lightly.

This Trayvon Martin case should be a real eye-opener for those with eyes. It is typically something accused of the white culture that a lynch mob is formed when racism fuels a pre-trial “justice” invocation. Now we have a group of mostly black people (and I’m sure not a few ignorant tag-along white folks) doing the exact same thing with the acquiesence of our cultural racism double-standard giving them license. And the idiot president fanning their fire, no less.

It’s funny that Obama likes to mention Lincoln so much, and believes himself to be like Lincoln. I think he does represent Lincoln, in a alternate reality sort of way. The evil Lincoln.

Hmmm, watch the other hand. This is NOT about a shooting. It is preparatory instillation of fear for black on white outrage. That perception installed the racist president in 2008/09. The left is banking on it working again in November. The MSM is merely a propaganda machine for the left.

Let’s see, Barack Obama grew inside of a white mother, yet he’s BLACK.
But George Zimmerman grew inside of a Hispanic mother, and he’s WHITE.
So if you have a liberal father impregnate a conservative woman, what do you get?
A very confused young person who is likely to hate everything good and practice everything bad while blaming everyone else. Too simplistic? Racist? I think the only racists I see are minorities that have been brainwashed to stay that way. Most unlike objects in the universe polarize, they gravitate towards their own kind.

Democrats attract the bottom rot of society. They are mentally ill. Intimidation is the core engine that drives them. To the extent that the diversity they preach is totally absent in the media they infest, the university system, the unions, and more. No diversity of thought is tolerated.. I believe many people who work in those industries think differently but are so terrified of speaking their mind that they play liberal. I cannot believe that 50% of this country is mentally ill with rot gut brain disease.

The MSM is the primary propaganda machine that perpetuates the leftist sickness.

We all know statistics lie. I much prefer to go with the “narrative of victimhood” myself. Remember two simple truths: black=good; white=bad. Corollaries: man=bad; woman=good.

Many, many more blacks would be killed by whites than whites killed by blacks if it weren’t for the fact that there are great swatches of the flyover states where you have to go miles and miles to find anyone black. You can expect more blacks to be killed by whites if the price of gasoline drops to $2.50 a gallon. That’s one of the main reasons the anti-black Newt Gingrich wants lower fuel prices — so it won’t cost so much for whites to go in search of blacks to kill.

I can’t wait for obama to be re-elected. Then he will be politically free to take over more companies and turn control of them over to union members, like he did with General Motors. Then maybe we’ll see some needed changes and the disparity in wealth between the poor and the rich will start getting smaller. And the disparity in incomes between men and women. And between blacks and whites.

I’d be all for using outright confiscation to redistribute wealth, but that probably wouldn’t fly — not even with obama as President and Holder as attorney general.

(Don’t knock political correctness: it’s called “correctness” because it’s correct.)