You fought for your hair, good for you, i did too before i came out as Trans so i know EXACTLY what that fight was like. But, that's still not
remotely all the male socialisation pressures you went through growing up. Are you sure that none got under your skin? Or that none did damage in the
course of your overcoming them? How would you even know?

Oh Gawd, well, let's just scrape that barrel shall we, and see what fetid muck can be found within...

Swimming lessons at school, communal showers, the other lads laughing at my equipment. Getting pinned down and kicked in the balls from a run up
position, which meant my gonads ending up in a holding pattern somewhere near my kidneys, and therefore having to have surgery to corral them back
into their original position, surgery which was very painful to recover from, and left twin diagonal scars just above my genital area. Six weeks out
of school also resulted from that assault.

Constant bullying, much name calling related to my bookishness, thoughtfulness, tendency toward preference for quiet reflection, rather than
boisterous oafishness, also bullying related to my lack of sporting prowess which was mostly down to asthma.

This was all during junior school, before I was even eleven years old.

Constant badgering, and various forms of phallus waving on the part of my peers continued all the way through high school, which is where I learned
how to disarm a knife wielding opponent, break a jaw, dislocate various joints, all for the purpose of defending myself from increasingly psychotic
individuals with their own mental problems. I have been shot at, pelted with stones, had knives waved in my face, been hit with cricket bats, rounders
and baseball bats, been attacked with a dumbbell, and all before I was even an adult.

However, I have always known that those people who did those things to me, were sick. I have also, since growing through those things, become
virtually unassailable, to the point where my view is that if someone tried to kill me and succeeded, I would have to say they earned it, because that
upbringing has made me close to death proof, when compared with your average, non military citizen who has never had an official days marital arts
training.

In terms of what it has done to my psychology? Nothing I do not value intensely. I am proud to be what I am, proud to be standing here today. Every
single day that I continue to do so, is my way of saying to the bastards of the world "For all your prick waving, you still can't kill me, can you?"

Wow! just don't stop, another five hundred pages and it would be an opus Magnus of the first order. I know the times the Beatniks were rising, Jack
Kerouac was on the road , And the Teddy boys had just realised they looked to Gay, and had to act Macho, to get their Mojo back. So Instead of male
physical contact, was how many head buts they could get in, so their mates could say " He cant be a f#$%$# poofter". Where the sad fact was he was the
biggest poof of them all., and couldn't do a thing about it.

I wasn't talking "transgender" I was talking people that had undergone SRS. Lynn Conway estimates around 20,000 in 2002 in the US that I got from an
old article from an AUS gender website and somewhere around 1000 more each year receiving surgery in this country annually which has also increased
annually since then.
My estimated 50,000 post op transsexual people in the US was likely high. Your 1/30 may be for people with some flavor of gender diversity, but in
this discussion, I believe we were only talking about those that had undergone SRS?

You're really aggressive, overly statistical and political with all this transphobe stuff to the point of being slightly offputting, even to me. I'm
happy you're out and trans something and people are standing in line to have sex with you as you wave your flag which is fine, but you don't
seem to be have many qualities I can relate to. I would also prefer to stand out in the rain rather than under your particular transgender
umbrella.

Your input and activism is all well and good but you're pushing away more allies here than you are gaining I think and I don't think anyone has been
too convinced they're a transphobe that needs to get therapy?

originally posted by: TrueBrit
Swimming lessons at school, communal showers, the other lads laughing at my equipment. Getting pinned down and kicked in the balls from a run up
position, which meant my gonads ending up in a holding pattern somewhere near my kidneys, and therefore having to have surgery to corral them back
into their original position, surgery which was very painful to recover from, and left twin diagonal scars just above my genital area.

Uh Oh! Genital surgery corrections.

You're off the list!

It all sounds traumatic and challenging though but has added to your depth of character. I find that attractive in people.

It did take me some time, after leaving full time education, to respond to personal space invasion without violence, about two years to normalise
somewhat. It made social interaction difficult until I was about seventeen and a half, eighteen years of age, at which point I learned how to drink.
Rum is very helpful medicine!

originally posted by: Crazy Diamond
a reply to: Domo1
First of all, I honestly think, from reading your posts, that you are a good, tolerant person and I totally understand your position on this subject.
But let me ask you, what do you think is the worst reaction that you might have if you were to find out the best sex you've ever had was with a woman
born different? And I am curious only about your reaction, not how other men might react. To use your "cheating wife" analogy, what would be worse for
you, finding out that your wife of ten years has been cheating on you or finding out that your wife of ten years was born different?

No offense but I bet you would be unpleasantly shocked when it turns out that the majority of hetero identifying males find the thought of
accidentally sleeping with one of us horrifying. Not all but probably the majority, it is almost if like they can't help it it just bothers them.
Does this sound familiar? I spent enough time around gorilla chest thumping types to know. If scares the bejeezus out of them like they will catch
the gay. I know it sounds silly but girl we have to take baby steps with them, ease them into the water. It will take a little time but things will
gradually get better. Your young you have a lot of time to find out just be patient.

Oh, trust me, I would not be shocked at all, especially considering that I live in a country where many hetero males think they have to be
ultra-macho, alpha dog dominant types to somehow prove their masculinity. The mere thought of something happening with a woman born different would
surely put some of them in a state of rage which would quite possibly end with physical violence. Some of them still believe that women are nothing
more than automated cooking machines, sex toys and quite often punching bags. What's worse, many women are fine with that.

I cant even fully blame any of them but rather feel sorry for them. They don't know any better, they were born into such culture, many around them act
the same so it's completely "normal". I was lucky enough to be able to live in US for a while, meet people from all over the world, which gave me a
different perspective. I realized that in essence we are all the same. It breaks my heart seeing supposedly conscious beings being driven by their
most primitive, basic instincts and acting often worse than animals (not that we are not animals but you know I mean).

This song perfectly captures my feelings about this. Very emotional song for me, every time I listen to it I get goosebumps. Lyrics are embedded in
the video and are very important for the full effect.

I just wanted to point out that I don't personally agree with you on the "meanness" issue. Again I think suicide falls on the individual who commits
it. Some people are just mentally stronger than others. I have had enough meanness thrown at me to cover 2 lifetimes and I'm still here. I admit
though I have considered checking out early but couldn't do it. I wanted to live to try to make the world a better place or at least live long enough
to see some real change. I'm not by any means downplaying the sorrow that a selfish act like suicide brings with it or even defending people who are
mean. However the CONSTITUTION does protect peoples ability to speak freely meaning you will end up with plenty of A-holes. It is up to us to teach
the younger generations that it is ok to be different and not worry about she shallow words of troglodytes and neandertals.

Oh Gawd, well, let's just scrape that barrel shall we, and see what fetid muck can be found within...

Swimming lessons at school, communal showers, the other lads laughing at my equipment. Getting pinned down and kicked in the balls from a run up
position, which meant my gonads ending up in a holding pattern somewhere near my kidneys, and therefore having to have surgery to corral them back
into their original position, surgery which was very painful to recover from, and left twin diagonal scars just above my genital area. Six weeks out
of school also resulted from that assault.

Constant bullying, much name calling related to my bookishness, thoughtfulness, tendency toward preference for quiet reflection, rather than
boisterous oafishness, also bullying related to my lack of sporting prowess which was mostly down to asthma.

This was all during junior school, before I was even eleven years old.

Constant badgering, and various forms of phallus waving on the part of my peers continued all the way through high school, which is where I learned
how to disarm a knife wielding opponent, break a jaw, dislocate various joints, all for the purpose of defending myself from increasingly psychotic
individuals with their own mental problems. I have been shot at, pelted with stones, had knives waved in my face, been hit with cricket bats, rounders
and baseball bats, been attacked with a dumbbell, and all before I was even an adult.

However, I have always known that those people who did those things to me, were sick. I have also, since growing through those things, become
virtually unassailable, to the point where my view is that if someone tried to kill me and succeeded, I would have to say they earned it, because that
upbringing has made me close to death proof, when compared with your average, non military citizen who has never had an official days marital arts
training.

In terms of what it has done to my psychology? Nothing I do not value intensely. I am proud to be what I am, proud to be standing here today. Every
single day that I continue to do so, is my way of saying to the bastards of the world "For all your prick waving, you still can't kill me, can you?"

You have sand TureBrit you have sand good Sir and I respect the hell out of that. It sounds like you have learned how not to be a victim early on in
life. I only wish more people could find the strength to fight back instead of a victim. It is like when in the slasher flick the girl finally drops
the bad guy with a kick to the groin but instead of finishing the job with the big @$$ kitchen knife the baddy dropped she runs away only to be
killed later. Fight back people fight back GAT DAMN IT.

I too have hope for the near future. Things seem to be progressing a lot now so it won't always be this way.

Actually, I do have one question for you. How was your high school and current boyfriend treated by his peers while you were in high school? As I
understand, everyone in your high school pretty much knew your situation so I would presume he must've experienced some sort of bullying. If so, and
he was still willing to stick by you during some of your hardest times, he might be a keeper.

I will assume positive intent in your post, and thank you for it, but what does "you have sand" mean? I have entirely failed to come across that
statement in conversation, or my extensive reading history either, and would love to know more about it, and where you got it from!

originally posted by: solarjetman
I'm just going to keep posting this question from Bayne until someone acknowledges it, lol...

What upsets you more, that someone you dated might have been born with a girls brain and always was a girl on the inside but may have had their body
changed so it matched who they really were or that they were born with a girls body but was a guy on the inside the whole time?

I really think the thrust of this back-and-forth going on centers on penis-phobia, not transphobia. Some brought up the point that the surgery
involves making the vagina from the male sex organ, and just can't get past that fact. I know this is my hang up personally. HOWEVER, I will concede
that I can see how viewing this as (quite literally) a mind over matter thing-- that the brain trumps the body-- could be an evolved way of thinking
about this... lord knows the planet could use a mentally-oriented society.

I have to muse on this some more (and unthread a lot of social dogma in the process)

I couldn't agree more, I think its unfortunate byproduct of living in materialistic society. Apparently to some, body is the most important, if not
only, identifier for another human being
And to answer your (Bayne's) question, being hetero male I would certainly be more upset about second scenario.

a reply to: TrueBrit
Wow man, the more I read other people's experiences the more I realize how ridiculously lucky I was to have had mostly normal childhood. Other then
some relatively mild domestic abuse I haven't experienced anything even remote to what you've just described. It really puts things in perspective.
Well, as they say what doesn't kill you makes you stronger so I certainly wouldn't even dare mess with you.

It's great to see that after all that that you've been through you still turned out to be an outstanding example of a human being. Kudos to you
brother.

I will assume positive intent in your post, and thank you for it, but what does "you have sand" mean? I have entirely failed to come across that
statement in conversation, or my extensive reading history either, and would love to know more about it, and where you got it from!

Minerals, guts, balls, a fighting spirit, yes it was intended as a compliment. I despise lay down, give up and be a victim types. I respect strength
and the willingness to at least try to fight back. As they say hero's only die once, cowards die many many deaths.

originally posted by: Crazy Diamond
a reply to: Domo1
First of all, I honestly think, from reading your posts, that you are a good, tolerant person and I totally understand your position on this subject.
But let me ask you, what do you think is the worst reaction that you might have if you were to find out the best sex you've ever had was with a woman
born different? And I am curious only about your reaction, not how other men might react. To use your "cheating wife" analogy, what would be worse for
you, finding out that your wife of ten years has been cheating on you or finding out that your wife of ten years was born different?

No offense but I bet you would be unpleasantly shocked when it turns out that the majority of hetero identifying males find the thought of
accidentally sleeping with one of us horrifying. Not all but probably the majority, it is almost if like they can't help it it just bothers them.
Does this sound familiar?

Yes and no....

Im sorry Hun and no offense but one study conducted by one group of scientists is not enough to change my opinion which is based off of years of real
life experience and wisdom. I was also careful not to blanket policy I said the majority and I stand by that.

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