Wicked Chinchilla:Its been a while, but IIRC, he could have a happy ending, he just chooses not too. In the movie he forgives his would-be wife they and their son go live "happily ever after" fabulously rich.

Wicked Chinchilla:Out of curiosity: was the first theory that Knox did it based on anything aside from: "Gee, they lived together, she probably killer her then right? I mean, roommates kill eachother all the time, it seems perfectly reasonable"?

She acted inappropriately in the police station when the cops kept them waiting to be interviewed for hours; practicing handstands, necking and giggling with her boyfriend. (Not all at the same time obviousely).Oh and she'd had sex with boys and smoked marijuana. Shocking I know, British and Italian students are souls of propriety.

miss diminutive:I completely missed this case the first time around, but was there actually any evidence against her or was it simply a case of local authorities needing to pin it on someone and she was simply a suspect by virtue of living in the house?

ethics-gradient:manwithplanx: I'm curious as to whether the rest of the EU would have to hand her over should she go to any member country.

Yes I think we do, which is something I personally find appaling and frightening; that an incompetant system like Italy can reach out and grab people from here in the UK. (Not that the UK is perfect by any means, but the cynical stupidity of some of the other EU countries beats us by a long shot.)Why did our politicians allow this? I reckon it's actually the same root cause as the Euro crisis, a refusal to admit to the glaring reality that different EU countries have very different standards of competance in policing, judiciary, government and finance. Let's face it, some countries are better at some things than others.

Had Knox and Sollecito been tried in a British court of law I'm sure the judge would have ruled case dismissed within less than a day and they would have walked free without a stain on their characters.

It's fascinating of the Italian's proclivity for believing in a "brutal sex game gone wrong". I'd laugh but we Americans believe that in every shadow lurks a child molester. Interesting cultural comparison.

GungFu:miss diminutive: I completely missed this case the first time around, but was there actually any evidence against her or was it simply a case of local authorities needing to pin it on someone and she was simply a suspect by virtue of living in the house?

Yeah, that's how Americans see it.

Everyone else sees somehow who lied, accused an innocent man and has generally shown to be a bit of a coont.

Thank you, spot on. There's no doubting the Italian justice system is idiotic, but it's in pretty good company there worldwide, and that, or being an American abroad, doesn't automatically make Knox innocent. That young woman's behaviour has been odd in the extreme from immediately after her arrest onwards, and certainly suspicious enough to warrant her arrest and a trial, which of course will now never be fair or just unless accidentally. If the trial was about being a coont, she's be found guilty in a few minutes.

As for those Farkers saying EU extradition rights over US citizens is unfair, that's laughable in the extreme - quite the opposite is true. The US have FAR more power to extradite EU citizens to the US, unfairly so. Try reading up on Gary McKinnon as just one example and the disgraceful amount of time and effort spent trying to extradite him, or Christohper Tappin, who thought he was exporting car batteries to the Netherlands only to find out they were batteries for 25-year-old missiles in Iran (which might not even still exist), was extradited and told he could either plead guilty and get 33 months in prison, or stand trial and perhaps get 30 years. But the EU have almost no power in extraditing US citizens to stand trial.

Some poor sod was brutualy murdered, and I'm not convinced she's innocent just because the legal system is guilty of being stupid.

manwithplanx:doglover: Typical of a legal system. The truth doesn't matter, speed doesn't matter, common sense doesn't matter: as long as the lawyers have money to burn the battle isn't over. Ws are Ls waiting to happen and Ls are Ws ready to bloom and a decision is only final if you're unlucky enough to land in front a supreme court.

Sigh.

Anyway, I hope she bugs out to a country where Italy can't extradite her from and ends this case once and for all. It's too late for Justice.

TFA said Italian Law cannot compel her to return to Italy from the United States, but she may be tried in absentia and would presumably be arrested upon return to Italy should she be found guilty. I'm curious as to whether the rest of the EU would have to hand her over should she go to any member country.

I suspect she would be handed over, not just because of the smoothed extradition process in the EU, but because the general view outside USA is that there was a massive miscarriage oif justice here, and Knox is not innocent.

ElPresidente:GungFu: miss diminutive: I completely missed this case the first time around, but was there actually any evidence against her or was it simply a case of local authorities needing to pin it on someone and she was simply a suspect by virtue of living in the house?

Yeah, that's how Americans see it.

Everyone else sees somehow who lied, accused an innocent man and has generally shown to be a bit of a coont.

Thank you, spot on. There's no doubting the Italian justice system is idiotic, but it's in pretty good company there worldwide, and that, or being an American abroad, doesn't automatically make Knox innocent. That young woman's behaviour has been odd in the extreme from immediately after her arrest onwards, and certainly suspicious enough to warrant her arrest and a trial, which of course will now never be fair or just unless accidentally. If the trial was about being a coont, she's be found guilty in a few minutes.

As for those Farkers saying EU extradition rights over US citizens is unfair, that's laughable in the extreme - quite the opposite is true. The US have FAR more power to extradite EU citizens to the US, unfairly so. Try reading up on Gary McKinnon as just one example and the disgraceful amount of time and effort spent trying to extradite him, or Christohper Tappin, who thought he was exporting car batteries to the Netherlands only to find out they were batteries for 25-year-old missiles in Iran (which might not even still exist), was extradited and told he could either plead guilty and get 33 months in prison, or stand trial and perhaps get 30 years. But the EU have almost no power in extraditing US citizens to stand trial.

Some poor sod was brutualy murdered, and I'm not convinced she's innocent just because the legal system is guilty of being stupid.

The common thread here - no citation of a motive, a witness, even placing Knox at the time of the crime scene, a murder weapon, or any other physical evidence. However she was "acting odd" at least, according to british tabloids, hence you're not convinced she's innocent.

One would almost say, that without the biased circumstantial reporting, there would be absolutely nothing to cause one to think she is anything BUT innocent. Indeed, the moment that they put hands on Rudy Guede, who's semen was inside Meridith, who's bloody handprint was at the crime scene and who confessed to being at the crime scene, a reasonable person would have expected the case to be closed.

But no, Amanda Knox did a handstand (or so they say) while being held at the police station for better part of a day. SO VERY VERY SUSPECT.

GungFu:miss diminutive: I completely missed this case the first time around, but was there actually any evidence against her or was it simply a case of local authorities needing to pin it on someone and she was simply a suspect by virtue of living in the house?

Yeah, that's how Americans see it.

Everyone else sees somehow who lied, accused an innocent man and has generally shown to be a bit of a coont.

Isn't this man, Rudy Guede, already in jail for raping and murdering Kercher?

Bungles:manwithplanx: doglover: Typical of a legal system. The truth doesn't matter, speed doesn't matter, common sense doesn't matter: as long as the lawyers have money to burn the battle isn't over. Ws are Ls waiting to happen and Ls are Ws ready to bloom and a decision is only final if you're unlucky enough to land in front a supreme court.

Sigh.

Anyway, I hope she bugs out to a country where Italy can't extradite her from and ends this case once and for all. It's too late for Justice.

TFA said Italian Law cannot compel her to return to Italy from the United States, but she may be tried in absentia and would presumably be arrested upon return to Italy should she be found guilty. I'm curious as to whether the rest of the EU would have to hand her over should she go to any member country.

I suspect she would be handed over, not just because of the smoothed extradition process in the EU, but because the general view outside USA is that there was a massive miscarriage oif justice here, and Knox is not innocent.

Care to make it interesting? I'll bet a year of total fark that if convicted again she never EVER gets extradited.

doglover:manwithplanx: TFA said Italian Law cannot compel her to return to Italy from the United States

Ever hear of diplomacy?

You want your trade agreement, Mr Ambassador? *sips chianti* You give us the Knox girl and you get your agreement. And may your first child be a masculine child.

I sure have.

You want to rethink that stand, Mr Ambassador? *sips Kentucky bourbon* You ever been to Aviano? You remember how utterly dependent the local economy is on having a major USAF base there? I'm not saying we'll pull out, but Cyprus would just LOVE for us to drop all our money on them instead.

manwithplanx:'m curious as to whether the rest of the EU would have to hand her over should she go to any member country.

I doubt she'd ever travel outside of the USA again, especially to Europe, even if she wasn't convicted in this new trial. I know I wouldn't be risking Italy trying to pull some shiat the minute they knew I was out of the country.

I was on a trip in the US at the height of the case.... the USA had coverage that is radically different from how the rest of the world perceived it.

Be aware that if you're in the US, you've been presented this case through an incredibly strong prism of "innocent American girl abroad", with a massive PR campaign focused on a "corrupt system".. Check out the coverage in essentially neutral countries on this, like Australia or Germany. It is not positive of Knox.

Arthur Jumbles:GungFu: miss diminutive: I completely missed this case the first time around, but was there actually any evidence against her or was it simply a case of local authorities needing to pin it on someone and she was simply a suspect by virtue of living in the house?

Yeah, that's how Americans see it.

Everyone else sees somehow who lied, accused an innocent man and has generally shown to be a bit of a coont.

[i.telegraph.co.uk image 460x288]

Isn't this man, Rudy Guede, already in jail for raping and murdering Kercher?

Yes, and he's going to be out in a couple of years because the corrupt and incompetant prosecution gave him a sweetheart deal so that they could pursue their satanic sex orgy theory with the other two.

Arthur Jumbles:GungFu: miss diminutive: I completely missed this case the first time around, but was there actually any evidence against her or was it simply a case of local authorities needing to pin it on someone and she was simply a suspect by virtue of living in the house?

Yeah, that's how Americans see it.

Everyone else sees somehow who lied, accused an innocent man and has generally shown to be a bit of a coont.

[i.telegraph.co.uk image 460x288]

Isn't this man, Rudy Guede, already in jail for raping and murdering Kercher?

Well he should definitely spend some time behind bars for forever ruining the beret with his giant fivehead.

GungFu:miss diminutive: I completely missed this case the first time around, but was there actually any evidence against her or was it simply a case of local authorities needing to pin it on someone and she was simply a suspect by virtue of living in the house?

Yeah, that's how Americans see it.

Everyone else sees somehow who lied, accused an innocent man and has generally shown to be a bit of a coont.

Being a coont isn't a crime in Italy, right? It's certainly not what she's being legally charged with.

Bungles:I was on a trip in the US at the height of the case.... the USA had coverage that is radically different from how the rest of the world perceived it.

Be aware that if you're in the US, you've been presented this case through an incredibly strong prism of "innocent American girl abroad", with a massive PR campaign focused on a "corrupt system".. Check out the coverage in essentially neutral countries on this, like Australia or Germany. It is not positive of Knox.

I live in Australia, it's not negative towards Knox. If anything, the take away is - corrupt and incompetant prosecutor, girl is probably innocent.

ace in your face:Bungles: manwithplanx: doglover: Typical of a legal system. The truth doesn't matter, speed doesn't matter, common sense doesn't matter: as long as the lawyers have money to burn the battle isn't over. Ws are Ls waiting to happen and Ls are Ws ready to bloom and a decision is only final if you're unlucky enough to land in front a supreme court.

Sigh.

Anyway, I hope she bugs out to a country where Italy can't extradite her from and ends this case once and for all. It's too late for Justice.

TFA said Italian Law cannot compel her to return to Italy from the United States, but she may be tried in absentia and would presumably be arrested upon return to Italy should she be found guilty. I'm curious as to whether the rest of the EU would have to hand her over should she go to any member country.

I suspect she would be handed over, not just because of the smoothed extradition process in the EU, but because the general view outside USA is that there was a massive miscarriage oif justice here, and Knox is not innocent.

Care to make it interesting? I'll bet a year of total fark that if convicted again she never EVER gets extradited.

Oh, I'm sure she'd never be from the US, just that if she travelled within the EU, there would be a very strong chance she's be extradited internally within the EU.

TwistedFark:Bungles: I was on a trip in the US at the height of the case.... the USA had coverage that is radically different from how the rest of the world perceived it.

Be aware that if you're in the US, you've been presented this case through an incredibly strong prism of "innocent American girl abroad", with a massive PR campaign focused on a "corrupt system".. Check out the coverage in essentially neutral countries on this, like Australia or Germany. It is not positive of Knox.

I live in Australia, it's not negative towards Knox. If anything, the take away is - corrupt and incompetant prosecutor, girl is probably innocent.

That's just not true, I was in Melbourne for a huge chunk of this trial. The common view was "corrupt mess of a system" that was pushed into collapse by a massive US media interest, but that at the core of the case, Knox was not innocent (not premeditated, but some sort of manslaughter "everything went wrong" style narrative).

It's not entirely different from certain current views of the Pistorius case..

maddogdelta:Wicked Chinchilla: Its been a while, but IIRC, he could have a happy ending, he just chooses not too. In the movie he forgives his would-be wife they and their son go live "happily ever after" fabulously rich.

This was the original story..

A recent book about it is here

Have you ever read the count of Monte Cristo? Having your father imprisoned for two years and then dying poor may be an inspirational starting place, but it hardly makes it a true story.

That's like Tom Clancy knowing a guy in the CIA who once went to Columbia and therefore claiming all his books are based on a true story.

ElPresidente:Christohper Tappin, who thought he was exporting car batteries to the Netherlands only to find out they were batteries for 25-year-old missiles in Iran (which might not even still exist)

He openly discussed removal of military markings and had previously routed items to Iran, via the Netherlands, using the same company name as that given as the destination for the batteries. There are many concerns with the extradition treaty (although the US hasn't refused an extradition to the UK since the treaty agreement, the UK has refused 10 to the US), but taking Tappin as a cause celebre may be misguided.

Bungles:TwistedFark: Bungles: I was on a trip in the US at the height of the case.... the USA had coverage that is radically different from how the rest of the world perceived it.

Be aware that if you're in the US, you've been presented this case through an incredibly strong prism of "innocent American girl abroad", with a massive PR campaign focused on a "corrupt system".. Check out the coverage in essentially neutral countries on this, like Australia or Germany. It is not positive of Knox.

I live in Australia, it's not negative towards Knox. If anything, the take away is - corrupt and incompetant prosecutor, girl is probably innocent.

That's just not true, I was in Melbourne for a huge chunk of this trial. The common view was "corrupt mess of a system" that was pushed into collapse by a massive US media interest, but that at the core of the case, Knox was not innocent (not premeditated, but some sort of manslaughter "everything went wrong" style narrative).

It's not entirely different from certain current views of the Pistorius case..

I haven't heard anybody here claim Pistorius is innocent. I think you're just making things up now.

Its such a bizarre case. Anyone who paid close attention to Amanda's statements at the start of all this felt fairly certain that she was guilty. She just said some retardedly sketchy things when the investigation began... my "gift" has always been to read people and understand their intentions and motives based on their speech patterns and facial expressions, and every time I saw her that was the overwhelming feeling I got.

With that said... the prosecutor really went off the farking deep end, and went wild with strange stories of satanic sex rituals etc, and really just over stepped himself. It was basically the euro version of the Casey Anthony trial... they probably had a decent case, if they had just stuck to the damn facts and leveled appropriate charges, but the prosecutors got high on the media frenzy and went full retard with speculation.

SnarfVader:Bungles: TwistedFark: Bungles: I was on a trip in the US at the height of the case.... the USA had coverage that is radically different from how the rest of the world perceived it.

Be aware that if you're in the US, you've been presented this case through an incredibly strong prism of "innocent American girl abroad", with a massive PR campaign focused on a "corrupt system".. Check out the coverage in essentially neutral countries on this, like Australia or Germany. It is not positive of Knox.

I live in Australia, it's not negative towards Knox. If anything, the take away is - corrupt and incompetant prosecutor, girl is probably innocent.

That's just not true, I was in Melbourne for a huge chunk of this trial. The common view was "corrupt mess of a system" that was pushed into collapse by a massive US media interest, but that at the core of the case, Knox was not innocent (not premeditated, but some sort of manslaughter "everything went wrong" style narrative).

It's not entirely different from certain current views of the Pistorius case..

I haven't heard anybody here claim Pistorius is innocent. I think you're just making things up now.

miss diminutive:ethics-gradient: I was ready to "admit" to being a 6' German after only 2 hours (felt like much longer)This sounds like an interesting tale...

Long story short. I was registered to live in Berlin and went to spain on holiday with travellers cheques issued in German Marks (Yes it was a while back). I was cashing a pair in the mountain town of Orgiva when the bank teller looked at a piece of A4 beside , went all weird on me and pushed me out the door into the arms of a pair of Guardia Civil! One of whom had an asault rifle. Eyeing his 7.62mm machine gun capable of shooting through walls I accepted their offer of tea and biscuits at the barracks.After being screamed, bellowed and yelled at about being German over the course of hours all this ex patriate Brit could think was "Wow, they really have a thing for Germans here." The fact that I had a German residence stamp in my British passport and had unwisely admitted to speaking German was highly suspicious and such was the pressure they were putting me under that a few hours more I would have admitted it just to make it all stop. Honestly I was almost in tears.After some time the young conscript with the long black rifle took pity on me and showed me a photocopy of a German passport. The German cheque fraudster had exactly the same face as me! Mein doppelganger, echte. But I'm 5'7".Italian cops are more of the same, I only bumped into those morons once or twice but they also just repeat bullshiat at you over and over again. And that's just if you make the mistake of stopping to find a bakery when in the company of men with long hair.

TwistedFark:The common thread here - no citation of a motive, a witness, even placing Knox at the time of the crime scene, a murder weapon, or any other physical evidence. However she was "acting odd" at least, according to british tabloids, hence you're not convinced she's innocent.

Alonjar:Its such a bizarre case. Anyone who paid close attention to Amanda's statements at the start of all this felt fairly certain that she was guilty. She just said some retardedly sketchy things when the investigation began... my "gift" has always been to read people and understand their intentions and motives based on their speech patterns and facial expressions, and every time I saw her that was the overwhelming feeling I got.

With that said... the prosecutor really went off the farking deep end, and went wild with strange stories of satanic sex rituals etc, and really just over stepped himself. It was basically the euro version of the Casey Anthony trial... they probably had a decent case, if they had just stuck to the damn facts and leveled appropriate charges, but the prosecutors got high on the media frenzy and went full retard with speculation.

This is precisely the general view outside the US (aside from the CSI "reading people"...) that I have been trying to explain.