No problem. Also, where are you a resident and what region do you want to work? I see you have some Florida schools, why not Miami? I'd give you a coin flip, maybe better. Also, I see Ohio Northern and Toledo, I would add Akron and Case if I you want to work in Ohio. Just my .02

And sorry to interject again, but is there any chance of a retake? Even 3-4 points would do a ton for you. I took a year off to work and retake, went from 158 to 162, and those few points have given a lot more options, or the schools you're currently shooting at with $$$$.

I want to go to WV, work in WV, and im a WV resident. I really do appreciate your advice though. I could take a year off and retake, so that is an option for W and L. The weather in Florida is why i have applied to those schools. Ohio is close to home. Mississippi is attractive because Oxford is similar to my home town and I like it down there. The others sent me stuff and I liked the way they looked.

Fair enough, and if WV is where you want to work, I don't see any reason to go anywhere but WVU, unless you really really want W&L (it being close to the border makes sense). But you're pretty much a lock at WVU, likely with some $, and with the dirt cheap in-state tuition, you're looking at very little debt as opposed to W&L where you'll likely be paying sticker for $150K+ in debt. If I were you I think I would take the in-state and potential $ at WVU if you're positive that's where you want to work. Sorry to already turn this from a "what are my chances?" to "choosing a law school" thread.

you should have a good chance at wvu. Since you are a wvu guy, wvu might be a good fit for you, especiallly because their instate tuition for residents is soo inexpensive. make sure that application is submitted asap

I have applied to all those schools. WVU was the first one sent out. Believe me I know I could score 162/163, maybe even better on the LSAT. However, I really do not want to take a year off. WVU would be an excellent fit considering I have an internship in Morgantown asfter the conclusion of 1L. I haven't heard from WVU yet though. Not even the standard email saying they got my application and heres your online access login ect. I have at least received that from every other school except Ole Miss, but I applied there yesterday. I sincerely appreciate everyone's input and time, so thank you.

A 162 or 163 would be better considering my GPA is lopsided. The last 2 years it averages to about a 3.6. I am not sure how much of a difference that makes, but I would assume it has some influence if your a boaderline applicant.

WVUguy11 wrote:No drugs haha, but please elaborate. I am assuming that means only the above median t-14 students are getting jobs?

Pretty good summary of the situation:

vanwinkle wrote:

romothesavior wrote:

jaestro wrote:Incoherent rambling

Don't let the door hit you on the way out, and just remember that if it weren't for the "pessimists", you'd probably have no idea WTF was up with law school or legal market.

And +1 to doublechecks. There are very few people who are T14 or bust, so called "elitists" on TLS. But when people want to see what they want to see, they'll convince themselves of anything.

I think the problem people fail to understand is that the legal community itself is elitist. It's certainly not the students that make it this way; if I had my choice of what to do, I'd go to the cheapest law school in the country and use good grades and prior work experience to get me a job. But it doesn't work that way at all. In good times there were enough jobs that a number of T3/T4 students (though not all) could still find some kind of work, but we're not in good times now. We're coming off a recession that spawned over 20,000 legal layoffs in two years, while law schools kept graduating students at a total rate of 40,000 per year. Simple math says there aren't enough jobs to go around, and while there's always some hiring going on to overcome movement and attrition, it's not nearly enough to soak up all or even most of the current grads each year.

Given that, you have to look in advance at how those that are hiring do hire. Almost universally, degree prestige plays a role. Even places that traditionally hired T3/T4 students would often rather fill their ranks with students from top schools; they didn't before because those students weren't interested in those kind of jobs then. Grads from top schools are interested now, because shit jobs are better than no jobs. So they get those jobs right now, even though the T3/T4 grads used to. Treating those kind of jobs as though they're reserved for grads from the bottom schools is naive, because like anywhere else in the world, the employers would take better if they could get better. And thanks to the economic climate, now they can.

That's the thing people often don't get. We're not elitists, we're repeating what legal employees themselves do. Most legal employers consider grads from higher-tier schools to be "better" than grads from lower-tier schools when hiring. It's not the only factor, and someone with top grades from a T3 still might beat out a T1 or T2 grad with mediocre grades, but let's face it, most T3 grads don't have top grades at their school either. If only the top 30% or 20% or 10% is getting hired, that means going in you have a 70% or 80% or 90% chance of being unemployed.

Going, "oh, TLS is elitist" doesn't make this problem go away. It doesn't change how legal hiring is done or the fact that every employer will judge you based on where you got your JD, and that in a depressed hiring market you're competing with so many grads from better schools that you're practically unemployable. Unless you have personal connections to an employer or you're in a market so obscure that nobody from better schools would even think to seek work there, you're screwed right now, and that's true whether a bunch of people on the Internet are "elitists" or not.

WVUguy11 wrote:No drugs haha, but please elaborate. I am assuming that means only the above median t-14 students are getting jobs?

Everyone gets a job, even if its in BIGFASTFOODLAW. Even the bottom of the class at a T-14 might land some 45K a year legal gig. The real question is, how many kids get a job with which they can service 20K a year in debt payments (only 10 if you get a full ride!)? I guarantee you that you are not going to like the answer, especially at the schools you listed.

I am not worried about debt. Specifically WVU, where I want to go, I can live rent/food free, and I am fortunate to not have to worry about my own tuition. Therefore, it comes down to J.D. or no J.D. I think ill take J.D. and the West Virginia market, which is rebounding with the growth of the energy industries.

WVUguy11 wrote:I am not worried about debt. Specifically WVU, where I want to go, I can live rent/food free, and I am fortunate to not have to worry about my own tuition. Therefore, it comes down to J.D. or no J.D. I think ill take J.D. and the West Virginia market, which is rebounding with the growth of the energy industries.

Yah, WV is rural enough that there is probably some demand for smallaw services - 40k at a small firm out in the country is not out of the question. Still, you're probably better off asking mommy and daddy to just hand over the money.