M6 - 66 Minutes, the investigation - should the Scientology be rehabilitated?[00:00 ] Presenter: Thank you to be with us for "66 minutes - the investigation" devoted this evening to scientology, a doctrine born in the imagination of an American science-fiction writer of the ‘50s that claims several million followers in the world. In France, it is regarded as a sect. It would count close to 4' 000 members. A few weeks ago, the death of a young woman brought scientology to the front of the scene. It occurred in Nice. Report by Morgane Courgeon for Tony Comiti productions.Comment: Olaf, a Norwegian deputy, was in his country when he learned the news. It was on March 28th. His daughter, who studied here in Nice, committed suicide.Olaf (in English, translated): It was there, out of this balcony. She jumped from the third floor.Comment: Her name was Kaja. She was 20 years old. Olaf reconsiders today the spot of the drama. He is received by Henrich, the best friend of his daughter. He does not understand why Kaja decided to put an end to her life. [ 01:00 ] And more than that. He wants to know which role scientology could have played in this suicide.Olaf (in English, translated): Under her scarf and jacket, there was a bag and, inside, I found the test.Comment: It is a free personality test, distributed by scientology. Kaja filled one a few hours before committing suicide. This day, the girl makes shopping. Then she goes for the first time to the local scientology center, located at hardly 100 meters of the building where she lives. It is here that she passes a stress test. A list of 200 questions.Female-intonated voice: Do your past failures worry you? [02:00] Do you frequently think of death, disease, pain and sorrow? But also: Would it require a specific effort from you to consider the idea of the suicide?Comment: To this question, Kaja answered yes. Far from her, therefore, the idea to put an end to her life. However, a few hours later, she jumps out of the window. Meanwhile, a scientologist analyzed her answers and presented her with a graph which would describe her personality. When the curve is below the gray zone, it is bad. It was the case for Kaja.Olaf (in English, translated): The curve is very, very negative, you see? According to them, she was irresponsible, egoistic. She was unstable, depressed, nervous. For me, they destroy people with this kind of test. All that is completely idiotic. It has nothing to do with my daughter. [03:00 ]Henrich (in English, translated): She was happy. Everyone says that she was happy to live. It is the memory which one has of her.Comment: We went to the scientology of Nice building. But over there, the journalists are not welcome.Woman scientologist (deformed voice): Can you ask your friend to stop the camera?Morgane Courgeon: It is anyway important to have a statement.Woman scientologist (deformed voice): All I can say to you is that I did not see this person. I am not the police force. An investigation is underway. In is not the media that will inquire into what occurred to this person. The police force does what it has to do, that is it. I said what I had to say to the police force.Comment: No bound is proven between the suicide and the test. But the father of Kaja awaits an answer on the reasons which pushed her daughter to take her life.Olaf (in English, translated): I am in anger, because I will never see my daughter again. She died. These cults, they should not be authorized. I think that there should be a law to prohibit them.Comment: The investigative judge of Nice is charged of seeking the causes of the girl’s death. [04:00 ] And the scientologist who made pass the test to Kaja was heard by the police force. The investigation is still underway.Presenter: 12 years ago, in a similar case, a court in Lyon had condemned several scientologists for manslaughter. The suicide of Kaja, but also recent remarks attributed to the cabinet director of Nicolas Sarkozy, according to which the cults would be a non-problem in France, started a sharp polemic. Then, is the scientology or not dangerous? You will first see what scientology is, then which are its practices, how it recruits members, with the exclusive testimony of a Frenchwoman who states she was locked up during nearly two months by scientologists last January. Inquiry by Jennifer Deschamps for Tony Comiti productions.Video extract: The scientology is a religion which has methods to help you to find answers to the questions of the life. [05:00 ]Comment: Promotional videos which seem to be coming straight out of Hollywood. Prestigious members like John Travolta or Tom Cruise. Scientology, an organization established in 164 countries worldwide, succeeded in many of them to be recognized as a religion. But in France, since a 1995parliamentary report, it is regarded as a sect. Then, last February, the remarks attributed to Emmanuelle Mignon, adviser of the French president, throw a paving stone in the pound.Female-intonated voice: For me, the sects are a non-problem. As for scientology, either it is a dangerous organization and one prohibits it, or they do not represent a particular threat for the law and order and they have theright to exist in peace.Comment: Immediately, it is the polemic. Emmanuelle Mignon affirms she never made these remarks. On the following day, Nicolas Sarkozy tries to rectify the situation.Nicolas Sarkozy: With regard to the sects, my position was always clear. The sectarian activities are unacceptable, inadmissible and it is necessary to handle it with greatest firmness.Journalists: Is scientology a cult? [06:00]Nicolas Sarkozy: It is not with me to say it. There is a commission. It is with it to say if it is a cult.Comment: Then, is it necessary to be afraid of the scientology? The organization, in all cases, does not hide. It asserts 4' 000 active members in France and has, inter alia, this building of three floors in Paris. It is there that Danièle Gounor, the spokesperson, receives us. She accepts the principle of the interview, authorizes us to shoot some pictures in the hall, but not more.Daniele Gounor: Here, it is space where the new people are accommodated. Those who come to buy a book or to attend a conference or to have information. You have here the of L Ron Hubbard’s office, an office that can be found in all the scientology churches and represents the source of the writings that one studies here.Comment: Ron Lafayette Hubbard, founder of scientology, deceased 23 years ago. At the origin, an obscure American science-fiction writer. In 1954, he publishes a essay about mental health. It calls it dianetics. [07:00] According to scientology, more than 20 million copies this book will be sold worldwide. There also exists a DVD version. It proposes solutions to all the problems of life.Video extract: Stress, anxiety, depression. But where are these things coming from? It is called the reactive mind. It is the part of your mind which records all your moments of pain, and which uses them to dictate your acts, without your knowledge. Your reactive mind is the cause of what goes wrong in your life. But thanks to dianetics, you will be able to get rid of it.Comment: It is on the basis of this book that he founded scientology in 1952 (sic), an organization which preaches a civilization without insanity, criminals and war. [08:00] One year later, he declared it a religion. In 1966, he explained it in this interview, the only one which he never carried out.L Ron Hubbard (in English, translated): This is a spiritual being, bound in material problems and fleshly interests. And I concluded from it that it needed a hand.Comment: Ron Hubbard is for the ones a benefactor of humanity. But for the others, his church is before all a business machine. Scientology counts more and more detractors among its former followers. Like Roger Gonnet, a former scientology of Lyon dignitary. He left it in 1982, reproaching it for being interested above all by the wallet of its followers. [09:00 ]Roger Gonnet: In fact, I have a few hundred kilos of them in it. I have books which are obviously the ABC of the sect management. Here...Comment: For years, he accumulated documents which can put scientology at evil. Some are confidential, the other accessible to all.Roger Gonnet: There, I still have a whole set of scientology advertisements. You will see that it is luxurious. Here is one which is absolutely typical: "Learn your rights". They claim to teach the humans rights. You see, there is a DVD and other stuff. And it always finishes by: "Purchase order"! On the "Purchase order" page, it becomes rather interesting: it is the price. 1,500 dollars, 810 dollars. They sell that by packages to you, by large packages. [10:00]Journalist: Is the scientology, it a religion, a cult?

Ex-sci: It is a business above all. A way to make a lot of money. Order form.

Interviewer: What is the goal of Scientology?

Ex-sci: Money and power. Maximum power, maximum money.

Voiceover guy: Amongst the commercial practices that ex-followers speak out against is the use of this device. The electrometer. It is a device that allegedly allows people to detect emotions, an essential object. Each follower must own one. They cost between 3,000 and 5,000 Euros.

Scilon: Here. Now we have a reaction, there is pain, there is pain apparently. A pinch. So I'll see (couldn't hear). Now I'll tell you to remember the moment when I pinched you. There, thank you.

Female interviewer: What happened?

Scilon: You remembered the pain. The test shows when you have negative emotions; now we can go into this zone to dig further.

Voiceover guy: The objective of the electrometer is therefore to reveal what affects you and to work on your weaknesses. It is used during paid sessions called "auditions". Pierre Vetzel (sp?) is a lawyer. In 1977, unhappy in his life, he got to know Scientology. Immediately, he became fascinated with the electrometer. He bought tens of hours of auditions. He spent 30,000 Euros in 5 years.

PV: The part where they caught me was on my suffering. And because of these bottommost processes that you bury in this base suffering, you never escape from it. <-Not sure of previous sentence.

Voiceover guy: Each audition called for another. Pierre Vetzel started what he calls a descent into hell. One day at the electrometer, a scientologist asked him a surprising question, to say the least. The needle moved.

PV: I reacted to "Have you ever committed crimes against humanity?" And then he said, "There, what is this?". I said "I don't know. Search." "There's definitely something, the needle..." And after a moment, you make it work, if you're imaginative, if you're emotional... So I started finding stuff. When it ended I thought I was the reincarnation of Adolf Hitler. And I broke down crying, saying "I'm a monster... I'm the one who created the second world war... I'm responsible for 30 million deaths, it's awful. And I saw myself there, I saw myself in the bunker, I committed suicide. It was the 30th of April 1945. Yeah, yeah, I swear to you.

Voiceover guy: The electrometer, which the scientologists claim to be both scientific and religious, has been analyzed by experts in courts of law. According to them, it's a simple effect of resistance to the electrical current that passes in the cylinders. Thus the needle varies according to whether the guinea-pig is in stress or sweating, or not. In a report, an expert concludes that it is a device whose nature it is to impress new followers and that it is no longer defended except in credulous or ill-informed places. Some followers have spent phenomenal sums of money.

Alain Stauffen (sp?) for example. In January 2002, after 15 years inside Scientology, this musician pressed charges for organized fraud.

AS: All in all, I've given the equivalent of 60,000 Euros, which is not a lot. What you have to know is that the financial investment which is incurred by going to the highest level of endoctrination is something that goes well beyond 300,000 Euros. But when you're in it, money doesn't have the same value anymore. Because money is considered energy.

Voiceover guy: For Danielle Gounord, when you invest yourself in Scientology, it's to the fullest. She doesn't deny that such amounts of money could be spent by followers.

Interviewer: We often hear about amounts such as 200,000 Euros. Do these amounts seem realistic to you?

DG: People talk all kinds of nonsense. But it also varies according to the individual, obviously.

Interviewer: You, for instance, how much has it cost you?

DG: I've been here for 25 years. I have no idea. No idea. I'll tell you that it's true that, dunno, I haven't spent money that I didn't have. When you make a priority out of it - I prefer to spend my holidays studying Scientology, than to go in the sun to tan on a beach, you see.

Interviewer: Is it possible to tell us, for example, what your sales figure is?

DG: I don't know. I don't know, and even if I did - I mean, I don't know exactly. I have an idea, but even if I knew the exact figure, I don't need to disclose it.

Voiceover guy: In France, Scientology has the status of a non-profit organization. It is not required to publish its accounts and doesn't. The organization is rich. According to our sources, in 58 years, it has accumulated between 10 and 20 billion dollars worldwide. But its leaders have never been sued for personal enrichment.

This fortune serves first and foremost to conquer new countries and to buy luxurious buildings in big towns such as here in Berlin, Germany.

And here is one of the latest acquisitions. This building of 5,600 square metres in the heart of Madrid was bought for 9 million Euros. In 2004, thousands of people assembled in the heart of the Spanish capital for the ceremonious inauguration. In the first row, Ron Hubbard's successor, the American David Miscavige, worldwide leader of the organization.

At his side, in sunglasses, the most famous Scientologist - Mr. Tom Cruise.

TC: 20 years ago I regained hope. It happened the day when I discovered Scientology.

Voiceover guy: Iban Ahonna (sp?) is president of Scientology in Madrid. He didn't hesitate to open the doors of his building to us.

Director: Here we have the symbol of Scientology, the "S" with 2 triangles. The lower triangle is that of comprehension and the upper one is the one of knowledge, of responsibility and control. By combining these two essential parts of Scientology, you can have a better life.

Voiceover guy: If Iban receives us so warmly, it's because a few months ago in Spain, Scientology won a court battle. It won the right to be inscribed on the list of religions, at the sides of the Catholics, the Jewish people and the Muslims. In Spain, we managed to see more closely what the journey of a scientologist is like. The building is both a training centre and a very specialized library.

President: Here, we have books in all languages. Spanish, French, English, Italian... And this, this is exactly the same thing as that. Except that thanks to the carton, you can bring it straight home. And afterwards it's up to you to decide, you read it and if you want to, you come back to see us.

Voiceover guy: But it all starts with recruitment. The simplest method is also the most efficient: posting yourself on the sidewalk and talking to passers-by. Through this means, recruiters manage to make about 30 people enter the building daily, one or two of whom will inscribe themselves. The interested visitor is immediately looked after by a counselor. This Sunday morning, Helena, aged 46, entered for the first time.

Counselor: Sometimes you feel incapable of solving a problem. And that's where we can step in. We can help you to be less influenced by things that affect you, that worry you. We want to help you so that you can solve your problem more easily. That doesn't mean I'll solve the problem for you, it's you who will be doing it. But it's in that direction that we'll be helping you.

Helena: Yes, I need it. I love my son. He's a very good person. But he's brainwashed because of drugs. I'd like for him too to seek help here.

Counselor: This card is a subscription to the international association of Scientology. Everything is explained. This card allows you to get preferential prices here and in other centres. It allows you to attend courses. It is totally free for six months.

Voiceover guy: After this period, Helena will have to pay 500 Euros yearly for her subscription. Today, in 10 minutes, the counselor still managed to make her spend 35 Euros for the two books of initiation to Scientology. She will begin studying immediately. Every evening she'll be able to attend courses, paid seminars... but not only those. The director of the centre shows us a lesser-known activity.

Director: Here is the centre of purification.

Voiceover guy: Iban explains to us that to enter Scientology, each follower must undergo purification therapy.

The director shows a lesser known activity:"This is the purification center"

Iban tells us that each new Scientologistmust undergo a purification cure(?):5 days of sport to clean his body,large amounts of vitamins, long hours of sauna.

"This is the sauna, it is very hot"

and mandatory jogging.

-- This is to assimilate vitamins, and eliminate toxinsand drugs from my body

-- how much do you pay for this 5 days cure(?) ?-- 400 €-- Do you find it expensive?-- No, I feel much more alert. When I see people in the street,I clearly see that they are affected by all thatI am curently eliminating.You know this feeling in the morning, when you say "pfff, still those things to do ..." for me, this feeling has completely disappeared.Now I think much faster.

One of the highlights of the week is the mass.

Juan Lazaro, 45, is not your average member.A few months ago, he acquired the title of chaplain.

every Sunday morning, he orders the office,under the eye(?) of Ron Hubbard.

-- Is he your God?-- No, he's a friend. A friend who gave me, in his writings,the exit map from this confused world.-- Who is your God then ?-- In Scientology there is no god per say;It (affirms) the existence of a superior being, because he exists.But leaves the choice to the free will of each individual.

For his speech, he chooses excerpts from texts by Ron Hubbard.

"Scientology answers to the deepest problems ofhumanity. How to live happily with your neighbour.how to take responsibility for the survival of the group. "

Mass is held once a week for 20 minutes.And even if Scientology gives everyone the choice of his God,at the end of the office, LRH, the founder, will be thanked.

Entering Scientology is easy.But is it so easy to leave ?

Back in Paris. For Danielle Gounord, the spokeswoman,leaving Scientology is not a problem.She says you can even get your money back.

-- Do you refund people who are disappointed?-- Yes, it's in the codes, if you're not satisfiedby the service you received, you can get money backwithin 3 months after your departure.It is explicitely written.

-- This is "satisfied or refunded"? (?)-- you could say that.

That's the principle, but in practiceit is sometimes more complicated.Scientology does not like to be doubted(?)

Alain Stofen learned this to his expense (?).One day, disappointed by sessions in which he participated,he refuses to pay € 17000.He writes a letter of complaint.The response is immediate.

-- By writing this letter, I had transgressed the untold rules,because we have absolutely no right to criticize.People from the international management of Scientologysent by telex a program to apply to me, and in it theyordered a sequestration (?)

Alain was able to get this telex before leaving Scientology.It is a 17 points program to force him to pay.

-- Here is point 3: "Ask Alain to come to an office where youwill interview him. Be careful to sit close to the door,in case he would try to leave.This way you can stop him and handle his disagreements. "It is nothing other than a kidnapping (?).

That day, Alain Stofen yields(?)(cède), and pays.He will need 5 more years to leave the organization.

Recently, Scientologists were involved in a much more serious case.We are in Sardinia. In January 20, on Mount Orto Benne,in a isolated house, police discovered a French woman,Martine Boublil, 48, sequestrated by Scientologists.She spent 2 months locked in this room at the 1st floor.(?)(2nd floor selon les conventions anglaises ?)

Commissaire (?) Gabriele Gianini freed Martine Boublil.He is particularly marked by what he discovered that day.

-- We heard a scream, and we entered. She had no way to escape.she was in fairly dismal hygienic conditions.There was no real bed, she slept on the floor.She was apparently denied to use the bathroom;so she had to live amidst her ... "waste", we can say.

This is the house where Martine Boublil lived her ordeal.It has since been cleaned and there is now a bed.

She sent messages of distress from this window,over the fence of a French neighbor.

-- One day, we found papers in our garden, on whichthere were "SOS", in all languages, English,French, Italian...So we thought we had to call the police to check this.We knew nothing of course, we never saw her,she was never outside. We heard groans, screams ..but I thought she had Alzheimer's.

After her release, Martine Boublil is sent to an hospitalin Nouoro a few kilometers away.She has behavioural disorders, and is immediatelyinterned in psychiatry.

We were able to meet her,with the approval of the hospital managanement,who thinks she sufficiently recovered to speak to us.

-- I was generally not allowed to go out of the room.As soon as I put one foot outside the room they came running.I had guards who were as close as that, all the times.

I was in conditions of extreme misery, I had even no pants,they had confiscated all my belongings...I had no bed, I had a mattress after 9 days.I stayed, with the snow outside,without heating for 4 days, I was dying from cold,it was unbearable...Just thinking about it, is hell ...

Three men were arrested on January 20. They areScientologists. To defend themselves, they claim havingfollowed the request of her brother Claude Boublil,one of the ringleaders (?) of the Scientology in France.

-- They had received this work from Mr. Boublil.They said they were paid to do this job.What was quite surprising is that they foundthe conditions of Mrs Boublil perfectly normal.

Why has Martine Boublil been sequestrated ?1 year ago, her mother dies. She falls in a big depression.She is confined to psychiatric unit;very quickly, her brother Claude,who is a general doctor (?),makes her leave the hospital.

Because for Scientologists, psychiatrists are sworn enemies:It is the most ardent of their fightings.In their last DVD campaign, currently underway,they use shock images, and radical talks (?)

They accuse psychiatrists to enrich themselves by practicingelectroconvulsive therapy and lobotomies.

For 2 months, Scientologists gave to Martine a very peculiar treatment:

-- They don't speak; when you speak to them,they answer "yes" with their eyes like this,and "no" by keeping their eyes open.

For Roger Gonnet, a former high-rank official in Scientology, no doubt:it is a method devised by Ron hubbard to end the psychiatric treatments.It is described in Scientology texts.

-- This is a "Hubbard Communication Office Policy Letter" (HCOPL):

This method is called the Introspection Rundown.

"a person who is in psychosis, must be completely isolated, all present people must be completely muzzled.They must not talk. "(ou reprendre le texte officiel de l'HCOPL en anglais,que je n'arrive pas à lire sur les videos)Miss Boublil was probably at this stage.

For Danielle Gounord, spokeswoman for Scientology in France, there is no ground for polemics (?)

-- I think this case made a lot of noise for not much ...well, it's a family problem, it's pretty hard ...

-- When you read these codes, the introspection rundown,we can think there is still something similar with thecase of Martine Boublil

-- It is not impossible, I do not know...well, maybe there's an idea like that, it is possible ...

-- Do you think he took ideas from the introspection rundown?

-- It is possible yes, I mean, if it is written it must work ...I do not know if the correct criteria(?) were met for this ...

We talked to Claude Boublil, the brother of Martine, by phone.He makes it very clear, there was no sequestration.

-- Why did you take your sister to Sardinia?-- It was to help her !-- You sequestrated her to help?-- Sequestrated ? This story is completely false,and was completely debunked(?).It's just that my sister was very very delirious,and we tried to avoid the "chemical straitjackets"(?) in France,drugs, and everything ...But unfortunately it did not work, that's the tragedy ...and back to square zero .. she's at the psychiatric hospital again.

In Italy, Claude Boublil and 3 Scientologists were placed under investigation for sequestration.While waiting for the investigation to progress again,they were able to leave Sardinia, free.

Martine was transferred to the psychiatric unitof a hospital in the Paris region.

This case puts Scientology under the judicial spotlights again.

For the past ten years, there were no major trial against the organization.Previously, the plaintiffs attacked mostly for fraud;but now, Scientology found a parade:it offers money to its former followers,in exchange for the withdrawal of their complaint.

Alain Stofen claims to have experienced this.

-- They offered a financial transaction?-- Yes, for quite a long time, through my lawyer ...-- How much do they offer?-- I don't want to talk about it ...-- Is it a large sum ?-- Relatively yes ...-- Will you accept one day?-- Not ... the only thing they want, is to escape justiceand continue their activities with impunity,and I have no good reason to offer them this gift,after all what they did...

Because of these polemics(?),Scientology is now struggling to recruit in France.But abroad it continues its expansion.Last year, the organization said to have opened1500 new centers throughout the world.

Fogiel: And with us tonight, good evening Roger Gonnet.We just saw you in the document, you testified for “66 minutes”.

You’re an ex-$cientology executive and you’ve even been a $cientology director in Lyon between 1974 and 1982, before you break up with it and become one of their most fervent detractor.

You also met Nicolas Sarkozy’s staff director and religious affairs adviser, Emmanuelle Mignon, who said “Cults are a no-problem in France", before she denies having said that.

Good evening Mona Vasquez; you’ve been snapped up by $cientology for 7 years to the point of becoming executive for the cult headquarter in Copenhagen, you were 20 years old, today you’re 48 and both of you are about to tell us what happens in $cientology.

We saw this device a little while ago.

[...]Roger you will tell us what it is…Because, actually, when someone join the Church of $cientology, a first test like the one we saw a little while ago is performed.It’s a free test, which is supposed to evaluate you, to know if you have problems and so on…It’s a test which puts you in a state of, let’s say, inferiority,since you’re explained that actually you’ve got a lot of problems and that you really need $cientology. And then, that’s when things get complicated -among other things-and you will explain everything yourself, but you were pushed to buy this stuff. Tell us Roger

RG: It’s a device for "professional $cientologist",it’s designed (supposed) to calculate what’s in our head, or something like that

Fogiel: It’s an "Electrometer"

RG: It is supposed to read thoughts… It does not read thoughts!

Fogiel: You buy it 3000 or 5000 euros each Both of you bought that.

RG: Yes, I bought two. I bought the old and the new model

Fogiel: Well, you’re pushed to buy that and then, as we saw in the document, you’re pushed to pay for very expensive auditions, costing between 170 and 550 € each. What happens during those auditions where you have to use your device?

RG: it’s even more than 1000$ now…

Well, you’re asked a lot of repetitive questions and that’s the thing with $cientology and Hubbard: they teach people, pushing them constanty with the same question, the same question, the same question...to create a sort of hypnosis… slight hypnosis or quite deeper hypnosis, making you believe you lived previous lives, that you’re inhabited…Listen cause I’m about to tell you... You willsave 200 000 € tonight. Listen to $cientology’s extraordinary secret: You are inhabited by thousands of parasite beings!

Fogiel: it’s what you’re told in $cientology

RG: Not in the beginning!

Fogiel: But once you’ve been brainwashed through those auditions which cost you a lot of money each time...and we’ve seen it in the video…There is a lawyer who’s been convinced that he was Hitler’s reincarnation.

RG: But actually, he began to believe it on his own!The problem is this sort of auto-hypnosis, orhypnosis caused by repetition,which makes people believe any kind of crap in the end!

Fogiel: What for, Mona, to steal your money?

[.. useless bla bla bla ..]

MV: It aims at making as much money as possible,to access as fast as possible to power, it’s always the same story.It’s nothing more than that.

Fogiel: You’re put into a position of weakness.

MV: yes, an adept who is in a position of weakness isvoluntary, he is malleable, always maintained in a feeling of culpability... he is maintained through several…actually, his flaws are exploited,and that’s exactly what $cientology’s poisoned chalice is:instead of helping him to grow, his flaws are exploited,and he’s prisoner of his own flaws!

Fogiel: You said: "I thought I was free, I was a slave, prisoner of a prison without bars,like drugs, you can try it… it’s free at the beginning! and then you’re dissocialized before you can realize you’re. I was exploited by the cult, forced to find outrageous amounts of money. The hell lasted for 7 years.”

MV: Yes, I’ve been a little bit concise,I compared it to drug addiction,because when you don’t get your fix of doctrine or audition, you can feel like a junkie during withdrawal. And in case of radical $cientology withdrawal,you are febrile, you are in a withdrawal-induced state, and that’s where the problem is, I think

Fogiel: Roger and you, Mona, what made you adhere to $cientology in the beginning? Didn’t you know it was a cult?

Mona: I didn’t "adhere" to $cientology. It was an accident.It was a youthful mistake.I was a student at Toulouse Art School, I’m a painter,and I was studying painting,and as I got a Bachelor of Philosophy, and as I really loved Philosophy,I thought, when I was 20, sorry, that human being could improved,that there was a way, through books, without going to any church at all,in an intellectual way, I thought that we really couldhelp mankind to progress, that’s all.

Fogiel: you thought that the precepts they were proposing to you could…

MV: No, I didn’t even… I used to read Socrates, I used to read philosophy, I used to read that kind of stuff... until a friend of mine lent me a book…

[.. useless bla bla bla ..]

MV: I had no a mystical approach, I had a rather Cartesian approach…and that friend of mine lent me a book. He wasn’t a $cientologist either, he didn’t know, it was about Dianetics, it wasn’t even about $cientology

[.. bla bla bla ..]

but the trap isn’t the book itself (or is it?). The trap is setalmost halfway of the book, when (in my case at least) a certain state is described,and I said “if what’s written is true, then I wanna know it”.My reaction was healthy, natural...