Men's Rights Activists respond to the Elliot Rodger murders with a hearty "Nothing to see here! Move along!"

The We Hunted the Mammoth Pledge Drive continues! If you haven’t already, please consider sending some bucks my way. (And don’t worry that the PayPal page says Man Boobz.) Thanks! And thanks again to all who’ve already donated.

If anyone was hoping – against their better judgement – that Men’s Rights activists would be inspired by the tragedy in Isla Vista to reconsider any of their beliefs, or even to reflect for a moment on the many striking similarities between passages in Elliot Rodger’s book-length manifesto and comments posted every day by MRAs and others in the manosphere, well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you should not keep that hope alive.

It’s not that they’re not talking about the tragedy. A look through the top 100 posts in the Men’s Rights subreddit, the largest Men’s Rights forum online, reveals that roughly a third of them, including the top stickied post, relate in some way to Elliot Rodger’s rampage and the discussions that have come up online and in the media in its aftermath.

But the message of virtually all of these posts is: “Nothing to see here! Move along!” There are numerous posts expressing outrage that anyone would see any connection between Rodger’s toxic misogyny to the Men’s Rights movement; there are others mocking and attacking the #YesAllWomen hashtag; there’s even one suggesting that Rodger, who wrote about how he longed to watch all the women of the world starve to death in concentration camps, wasn’t actually a misogynist at all.

Sorry to break it to you, fella, but that’s not how defamation suits work. If it were, all of us who call ourselves feminists would be collecting millions of dollars from the Men’s Rights subreddit for all the patently untrue things you guys say about us every day of every week.

Still others make sure that everyone knows that Rodger hated men too – not that this has actually gone unnoticed in the media or in discussions of the tragedy.

And then there’s this fellow, who seems to think that Rodger only hated men, and that his big problem with women was that he loved them too much:

There are, it’s true, two posts that raise the issue of what might be done to prevent tragedies like this from happening in the future. One of them takes on the issue of “virgin shaming.” (Sure, I’m against that, and against slut shaming too. Odd that roughly 100% of the virgin shaming I’ve ever heard in my life has come from MRAs and other non-fans of this blog, even though — sorry to break it to you fellows — I’ve not been a virgin since the early Reagan administration.)

Meanwhile, the other “positive” suggestion — the stickied top post, submitted by one of the forum’s moderators — is pretty transparently intended as a PR move – and an excuse to bash feminists.

Yep, “creep shaming.” That’s the problem! Way to cut through all the bullshit and get to the heart of the matter! The problem isn’t that some men — well, a lot of men — think and act in predatory and entitled ways towards women. The problem is that sometimes when they do, women call them “creeps.”

The problem isn’t that the world’s creepiest and most entitled man just killed 6 innocent people, the problem is “creep shaming.”

After killing his roommates and a friend of theirs, Rodger attempted to get inside a sorority so he could massacre the women inside it. But he couldn’t get anyone to let him in. Probably because, well, whoever was nearest the door thought he looked a bit, well, creepy.

“Creep-shaming” isn’t some insidious form of discrimination against awkward men. It’s a defense mechanism that women develop to protect them against predatory men. And in the case of the Isla Vista murders, I’m guessing that the willingness of women to go with their gut sense that Rodger was a creep literally saved lives.

But the mods of the Men’s Rights subreddit would rather moan about “creep shaming.” They would prefer that women lower their defenses against men like Elliot Rodger — because it hurts their feelings to sometimes get called a “creep.”

Guys, this is why people think Elliot Rodger was an MRA.

EDIT: I added more to the conclusion because I had more to say about creep shaming.

I’m guessing by the nym that Black Linen Sheets is a PUA, probably with something to sell? What he thinks porn performers killing themselves has to do with feminists I’m not sure. There are lots of feminists who don’t like porn, but feminists didn’t create the stigma against porn performers, and if you look at cases where former porn performers are being hounded and harassed when they’re trying to move on to new professions then I’ll bet you dollars to donuts that the people doing it aren’t feminists.

Lids: Ew, that guy does sound creepy. I’m sorry that happened. What the hell did he mean “become asexual before something bad happens?” Did he mean, he was going to do something bad? Like some kind of threat?

BLS: Nope, gumdrop, no one’s entitled to sex or attention from anybody else. Not sure what else you’re trying to get at as nothing you wrote makes a lick of sense.

. If they wanted their goals met about child support, changing laws that allow women to lie on men in court, and etc, they would have done so buy now.

And thus spoke the ignorance of those in the MRM. See, I read a lot ofmra sites, know thy enemy and what not, and the thing is they dont understand the law or how the family court system is supposed to work. The above actually is one of their concepts but itll never become law bc law is intended to serve a public need and in contentious divorces in which a judge determines final outcome, well, they are best suited to determine if anyone has lied. But why would there be legal punishment for that? One would have to prove it and even if they could, its still not criminal court wherein perjury actually does carry a penalty bc the person is under oath when being questioned. The atty speaking on behalf of their client can technically say whatever they want within reason.

As for TRO hearings which is normally what MRAs mean when they talk about “she lied!” will likely never change. Just like when LEOs arrive at a DV call their job is to err on the side of caution based om the claims of the alleged victim,, so too is the court’s job to initially take the complainant’s word for it and issue TRO. I imagine most divorce related TROs do not get extended though I’m not sure of stats.

Anyway most of the legal changes mrm seeks will never come to fruition bc theyre positions are.largely unconstitutional.

Lastly, do please go your own way and…goodc luck.

Oh one more thing its poor logic to opine that just bc he killed more men that negates ALL the videos and the manifesto TELLING US he did it bc he hated womem and the men they slept wi th. This ks not the deathh toll olympics and I wish ppl would put on their thinking caps when thjnking about this issue bc there is waaaay too much “rationalizing” going on in this country that he “must” have been “crazy” bc no one , especially men, want to talk much less think aboutthe way they and their friends treat women.

On the troll who got banned, and the one in the other thread who may or may not have been the same person (more likely just from the same forum) – men, including our host, notice how the women on this board were able to spot those guys for what they are pretty much right away, even before they rage-sploded? That’s because our radars for this kind of thing are more finely tuned than yours are, because we have lots of experience being the targets of misogyny. So maybe next time when we say “hey, misogynist ragemonkey who’s clearly trolling here” actually listen to us rather than telling us to be nicer, yeah?

AA? Nope. Listening to him is like listening to a long, sustained dog fart. You don’t enjoy the sound. The being making it hasn’t got sense enough to be embarrassed or apologetic. It adds nothing of value* to the world and it makes you want to leave the room immediately.

*Aside from the relief it must cause it’s issuer

At least dog farts are stinky and funny.

cassandrakitty:

They’ll be on Etsy any day now, whining about how the vendors will only sell to bad boy alphas.

This actually happens in the AVEN group every few weeks or months. Someone along the same vein as this guy will pop up whining about wanting to be asexual and women being evil. It’s rather annoying. And they always try to guilt us too.

I wondered if it was AVEN. I was on there briefly, a good while ago. Must have been lucky to miss the dudebrodeadbrains.

Black Linen Sheets:

What are you even on about? Your teal deer is just blathering. But this bit:

In fact men and women are entitled to sex and attention because guess what, those are natural human needs.

Wrong. Fail. Needs are for air, food, shelter, healthcare – the things without which you will die. “Death from lack of sex or attention” isn’t actually a thing, and don’t try pushing suicide on that one, it’s not natural causes and you should know it.

You’re pushing the same bullshit line as neuroguy on Pharyngula. Any suggestion that person A is entitled to sex, or has a right to it, means that sooner or later there’s a person B whose right to bodily autonomy is taken away from them. Sure, people have the freedom to pursue sexual and other relationships. They don’t have the right to them. If it’s not mutual, it’s rape.

Does anyone else think that “black linen sheets” sounds anything but sexy, or even practical? Be one thing if we’re talking batiste (can’t recall the English word for it) but otherwise I’m thinking scratchy and showing any hairs, dandruff, cat furs …

Haven’t most of the large media outlets almost *exclusively* said that he hated men, at least in the absence of explicitly stating that he hated women?

There was a particularly egregious example on CNN where they split it into five points “learned” from his manifesto. Not sure if it’s still up but it’s a good example of the media dodging the misogyny topic but fully embracing “vengeance against men”.

The media has opened up slightly since then, but more in inviting editorials that essentially say “a lot of people [we won’t name or invite to speak] are saying we should talk about misogyny, and sure that was there, but this was 100% the fault of untreated mental illness and they are all insensitive and should shut up”.

-_____-

But thanks for the post. More proof that the MRA’s are stuck in their own bubble full of persecution and lacking in facts.

@weirwoodtreehugger I didn’t claim any of those things. In fact, my argument is that you people DO NOT represent real feminism. You guys are frauds.

@cassandrakitty I am not blaming feminists for that. I am blaming fraudulent fake feminists as exemplified by this website. And no I am not a PUA, you should know, you talk to them all the time. Do they talk like me? Do their arguments sound anything like mine?

@Ally S Fuck off creep to you right back. Isn’t there someone else you should be telling that to?

@kittehserf Any suggestion that person A is not entitled to sex, or does not have a right to it, means that sooner or later there’s a person B whose right to bodily autonomy is taken away from them.

The same conclusion follows from the opposite assertion based on a different context. So there you go. A bunch of frauds. Because statements such as:

And my post about the two pornstar suicides and the REAL character of patriarchy that we live in?

Are typical of PUA’s. Fuck off. Like last time, I’m not coming back. You worthless losers contribute to problems like Rodger’s and Funke. And it’s funny because all this concern trolling and I’m not even sure this loser blogger even mentioned the latter.

Before you open up your sell out worthless mouthes, maybe repeat a few times, Rodger and Funke, Rodger and Funke, Rodger and Funke.

And don’t talk to me about polite conversation because on this side, we are beyond offended already. So fuck right the fuck off with your fucking profanity bullshit and politeness or whatever. You are only going to get yourself in more shit.

@cassandrakitty I am not blaming feminists for that. I am blaming fraudulent fake feminists as exemplified by this website. And no I am not a PUA, you should know, you talk to them all the time. Do they talk like me? Do their arguments sound anything like mine?

Yep. You sound like the PUAhate guys too, and like MRAs. It’s funny watching you all jockey for position against each other, because you’re basically all the same.

The same conclusion follows from the opposite assertion based on a different context.

Care to translate that from Troll to English?

There’s no different context. Saying men are entitled to sex means someone else has to provide it, and that means someone else doesn’t get to say no.

Plus, of course it’s only cis het men you’re talking about, isn’t it? Or are you saying that if a gay dude walked up to you demanding you sex him, because he’s entitled to sex, that you’d be happy to comply? If you said no, you’d be denying him his rights!

But since it’s only het men you think have this right, it doesn’t matter, does it? Because women aren’t actually people to misogynists like you.

I didn’t claim any of those things. In fact, my argument is that you people DO NOT represent real feminism. You guys are frauds.

Why aren’t we real feminists? You are just spouting nonsense without backing anything up.

Fuck off creep to you right back. Isn’t there someone else you should be telling that to?

Do tell. Who in your esteemed troll opinion is the creep Ally should be telling to fuck off?

Any suggestion that person A is not entitled to sex, or does not have a right to it, means that sooner or later there’s a person B whose right to bodily autonomy is taken away from them.

No you fuckwitted jackanapes. Bodily autonomy begins and ends with your own body. Nobody ever has the right to sex with an unwilling person. What the everloving fuck are you even talking about?

And don’t talk to me about polite conversation because on this side, we are beyond offended already. So fuck right the fuck off with your fucking profanity bullshit and politeness or whatever. You are only going to get yourself in more shit.

Any suggestion that person A is not entitled to sex, or does not have a right to it, means that sooner or later there’s a person B whose right to bodily autonomy is taken away from them.

The same conclusion follows from the opposite assertion based on a different context. So there you go. A bunch of frauds. Because statements such as:

And my post about the two pornstar suicides and the REAL character of patriarchy that we live in?

Are typical of PUA’s. Fuck off. Like last time, I’m not coming back. You worthless losers contribute to problems like Rodger’s and Funke. And it’s funny because all this concern trolling and I’m not even sure this loser blogger even mentioned the latter.

Which still makes no goddamned sense. I guess “real feminists” can’t make a cogent argument. And I guess “real feminists” think that women shouldn’t have bodily autonomy and owe sex to whatever random man demands it.

Yeah.

And no I am not a PUA, you should know, you talk to them all the time. Do they talk like me? Do their arguments sound anything like mine?

Actually, yes, BLS, from what little sense I can make of your randomly strung together words, you sound exactly like a PUA.

Shame he’s the gross kind of undead that smells like rotting meat instead of the super sexy alpha bloodsucking kind. Woe, bitches only like vampires and constantly reject perfectly nice zombies who would only eat part of their brain if allowed to! Woe!

Nah, it’s more like… they’re pathetically indistinguishable from each other in their grossness, ideas, and pomposity? I’ve just been thinking about last night’s filth and his flipping out every time someone said he was Erin or any other troll. They all think they’re so special, so good at trolling, at hurting people, at being a total skidmark in the underpants of life, whatever – and they seem almost insulted when we don’t recognize their particular trademark brand of disgusting as different from all the others’ – but they’re pathetically indistinguishable to the point where we pretty much always assume that whoever’s trolling is just someone who’s been trolling, even if they’re not.

They think all women are the same, but I can tell all the women on here apart preeetty well; they, on the other hand? If David came on and told us that he’d managed to find out, through some sorcery, that 85% of our trolls were actually one troll, the only thing that would surprise me would be how one asshole managed to make that volume of comments.

Gees BLS is astonishingly incoherent; the conflation of entitlement to sex inevitably leading to the denial of bodily autonomy is a complete non sequitur. So here’s another song for him with a message he seems particularly loathe to receive – it’s in the six word chorus shouted by the crowd 😉http://youtu.be/z87GJiNA7dE

If David came on and told us that he’d managed to find out, through some sorcery, that 85% of our trolls were actually one troll, the only thing that would surprise me would be how one asshole managed to make that volume of comments.

Yeah, Erin and Davis (i think it was him) seemed identical to me. (Also that made me laugh! ^)

Xanthe – I was the one pointing out to BLS that his “men are entitled to sex” means sooner or later, if they’re not denied their Nat’ral Rights, that a woman (because only het men count, yo) will be denied her autonomy because of it. It’s the same conversation in Pharyngula with that neuroguy twerp and his “people have a right to sex!” shit.

Nobody is entitled to sex, let alone having some Gahd-given constitutional RIGHT to it, because other people get to say no. I know the Mammotheers know this, but BLS’s inability to blockquote seems to have caused some confusion.

dustydeste – LOL that’s a more interesting point about the samey sameness of these trolls, isn’t it? They really do blend into one ugly mess of “always agree with me and fuck me on demand” in the end.

We Hunted the Mammoth tracks and mocks the white male rage underlying the rise of Trump and Trumpism. This blog is NOT a safe space; given the subject matter -- misogyny and hate -- there's really no way it could be.