I would imagine that there were some very heated arguments in the Cheney house over this issue. I mean how could he stand by for this long while Bush is trying to ammend the constitution? It's his daughter! How could he look the girl in the eye? "Yes <insert daughter's name> I love you, but I'm going to go along with George on this one, freedom does not apply to you". I wonder what finally jolted some common sense into him?

imo, if cheney's daughter was not gay, he'd back the amendment the entire way. i'm wary of people who are compassionate only when the cause affects them directly.

neserk -- i don't see this as cheney speaking up for gay marriage. all he said was that it's a state issue.

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HEY! Don't take the wind out of my sails!

I've met many people who were against issue X until it affected them directly (usually via a child or sibling). Then they realize that there is more to the issue than they realized. I think for those it affects it is more real than for those of us who it is an ideal. It isn't an intellecutal issue but a heartfelt issue. So there

I've met many people who were against issue X until it affected them directly (usually via a child or sibling). Then they realize that there is more to the issue than they realized. I think for those it affects it is more real than for those of us who it is an ideal. It isn't an intellecutal issue but a heartfelt issue. So there

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What about people who remain against a certain issue.... even...if it affects them directly....
Of course you will say they are bigoted and closed minded.
While I would say they are consistant with their beliefs/ideas.

What about people who remain against a certain issue.... even...if it affects them directly....
Of course you will say they are bigoted and closed minded.
While I would say they are consistant with their beliefs/ideas.

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looks like you're carrying a conversation on with yourself. It is easier to just imagine what the other person is saying. And much simpler than a real conversation...

What about people who remain against a certain issue.... even...if it affects them directly....
Of course you will say they are bigoted and closed minded.
While I would say they are consistant with their beliefs/ideas.

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Nah, I would say they have no compassion for their fellow human beings and if they base it on religion then they are debasing their own religion.....

What about people who remain against a certain issue.... even...if it affects them directly....
Of course you will say they are bigoted and closed minded.
While I would say they are consistant with their beliefs/ideas.

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And I'm sure we could find an issue where the same could be said about you. Might not be gay marriage, but there's something you would say someone is being bigoted and/or closed-minded about while others would say they are sticking to their beliefs.

What about people who remain against a certain issue.... even...if it affects them directly....
Of course you will say they are bigoted and closed minded.
While I would say they are consistant with their beliefs/ideas.

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just curious, at what age should someone solidify their beliefs and be consistent for life?

just curious, at what age should someone solidify their beliefs and be consistent for life?

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Never, times change. Under the philosophy that consistency in ideals and beliefs is the ultimate goal we would still be under British rule. Not that I don't like Britons, everyone on these forums from the UK seems to have their head screwed on right. I like being an American, so you see sometimes change is a very good thing.

Way to go Cheney. I think Cheney has figured out where 90+% of conservatives stand on the gay-marraige issue.

I personally don't care if a gay couple wants to get married. I like the idea of states deciding for themselves. It's that extreme religious zealot right that are so against it anyway.

I think gay marraige is a step towards making homosexuality just a feature of ones personality, not 'who they are'. ie. "I am a guy/girl that happens to be gay" not "I'm a gay guy/girl, and that's the first thing you should know about me".

You really think the Christian Right makes up less than 10% of the conservative electorate? If that were true I doubt Rove would be spending so much time working to get their vote.

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That's not what I said. I said that the extreme religious zealot right is ~10% of conservatives. I haven't been to church in over three years. In fact, my aunt and grandma are the only Bush supporters I know that regularly attend church.

While conservatives tend to be christians, not all christians are "crazy hell-fire and damn-nation, push my beliefs on you, let's bomb an abortion clinic, gays are demons" people. Those types are the minority (and give the rest a bad name and image). Most conservatives don't make "religion" their central focus in the booth. But that nutso 10% does.

huh?? In my experience, 9 out of 10 conservatives I talk to don't care if gay people get married. The 1 in 10 is the religious nut.

Could you clarify please???

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I'll try. You said that over 90% of conservatives feel that gay marriage should be a states rights issue. Let's say that number is 90.1% in your estimation. That means that less than 10% (ie. 9.9%) of conservative voters would feel that it should be a national issue with the ensuing constitutional amendment.

I just think the Christian Right makes up more than 1 in 10 conservative voters. I'm not arguing with your conclusion, just the numbers you cite.

Yeah, my numbers aren't necessarily true for everyone. In my subjective experience I haven't met many conservatives that care about gay marraige. Of con's I know it's one of the least important issues. (Although, most conservatives I know would be libertarians).

I would imagine that there were some very heated arguments in the Cheney house over this issue. I mean how could he stand by for this long while Bush is trying to ammend the constitution? It's his daughter! How could he look the girl in the eye? "Yes <insert daughter's name> I love you, but I'm going to go along with George on this one, freedom does not apply to you". I wonder what finally jolted some common sense into him?

Edit: Fixed wording

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The Cheney situation is very interesting. His daughter is supporting his campaign, and the assumption could be she is s true blue Republican (though this could be a whole different thread - supporting a party that does not support you).

I can say that I have a friend that supports a Constitutional amendment banning Gay marriages and unions. But she does not have an issue with my lover and I, and even has had us come over for dinner. She does not believe that we should have equal rights as a man and woman who marries.

I wish (in more ways than one) that my parents were alive today. It would be interesting to hear their views. My Mom, I believe would want equal rights for committed Gay/Lesbian partners. For my Dad, I am not sure. There was love there till even the end, but my being Gay, or Gay rights,
was not to be mentioned or discussed.

As to what was the "jolt", maybe his daughter mentioned the dissent within the Log Cabin Republicans. It could also be a surprise at the Convention next week. Cheney may step down, for "health reasons".

What about people who remain against a certain issue.... even...if it affects them directly....
Of course you will say they are bigoted and closed minded.
While I would say they are consistant with their beliefs/ideas.

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And that is why schools in some parts of Virginia remained closed after the SCOTUS ruling. That's why is some areas of the south segregation is still around. Maybe not in schools and the such, but in the town none the less.

Some ideas need to die. Particularly when the law and social changes demand it.

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