I had originally heard that this whole Sex Scene/Mini Game was a mod, but whether the ESRB takes a hit or not, I don't think that Rockstar/TakeTwo will suffer. After all, when you think about it, the popularity of the GTA series is directly proportional to the negative press it's gotten. The more the censors hate it, the better it sells, and on another note, I think that if the guys behind GTA took the hit and accepted an AO rating, WalMart will have a tough decision to make. When you don't carry the best selling game of the year, you take a bit of damage.

Well, here is the big point about this (which I sort of forgot to mention in my podcast). Here are the ratings and the definitions from the ESRB web site:

MATURETitles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content, and/or strong language.

ADULTS ONLYTitles rated AO (Adults Only) have content that should only be played by persons 18 years and older. Titles in this category may include prolonged scenes of intense violence and/or graphic sexual content and nudity.

Now let's take a look at what the "R" rating from the MPAA means:

R RESTRICTEDUnder 17 Requires Accompanying Parent Or Adult Guardian.

NC-17No One 17 And Under Admitted.

Now GTA was rated M for Mature. That means that GTA should be played only by persons aged 17 years and older. This is not the same as an R-rated movie.

This is the problem that is going on. People think M game=R-rated movie. Actually the correct correlation is M game = NC-17 rated movie. Kids should not be playing any M-rated game, period. The ESRB works, but people need to understand the ratings and understand that M-rated games should not be played by little kids.

When you read statements from Speaker pro Tem Yee where he says "This particular game has been known to include extremely heinous acts of violence, and now it has been uncovered that the game also includes explicit sexual scenes that are inappropriate for our children", he is actually 100% correct. GTA is inappropriate for children ... and that is why it was rated M. M-rated games are not intended for children, they are intended for adults. So Yee ... what's your point again?

As a parent myself I actually <shock> take an active interest in what my child is watching/reading/doing. I make sure that she is only exposed to what I feel is appropriate content. I never, ever play M-rated games around her, or even watch R-rated movies for that matter. In the end children need to be protected by their parents and not the government. I mean, would you trust the government to take of your children? This is nothing more than grandstanding and getting good press. Once the press stops covering these types of stories the grandstanding will disappear and they'll move onto their next target.

Oh, no doubt that that game should be played by kids, people just ignore details and make too many assumptions about labels and things, when it clearly says "not to be played by children under 17". I completely agree.

Just curious, what are your opinions of bad publicity helping games like GTA?

i always tought it was weird that at 17 you can get into Nc- 17 yet you cant get into a less explicit R-rated film.....

most forms of human information exchange are not perfectly suitable to all people yet people continue to use profanity and present a sexualy explicit clothing or lack of clothing.... some people will allways push for the maximum in orwellian society but that tendency is just a malfunctioning sense of justice to the point that people want control of other people...the search for security can lead people on the path of the fascist state and the search for expanded freedom to the democratic utopia

Quote from: Ben Franklin

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.

so any time some self-absorbed idiot jabbers on about saftey ask your self "is this the path of good intentions along the road to hell?" or don't... doesn't matter anway

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"6.4 Um's per minute" or "The Speed of Wright

An adventurer in the land of who gives a ****

The idea is to mix one ingredient that will burn very fast with a second ingredient that will supply enough oxygen for that burning. This burns so fast, it's an explosion.

What it comes down to is bad parenting. They buy these things for their kids without taking a look at what these games actually ARE, and when their kids perhaps do something anti-social, and they then see this game, they blame the game. Parents should take an active interest in the games - the ratings are there for a reason, as simple guidelines for parents and consumers.

I agree that some of it has to do with the parents, but I wouldn't say that it's bad parenting so much as ignorance. Very few people understand the ESRB, as Steve pointed out. When you look at what Yee said, he was talking not only about San Andreas but also berating the ESRB and accusing them of having a conflict of interest because they're supposedly funded by video game publishers. Of course this isn't true, but it's a good example of how little people know about game ratings. People see the "M" on San Andreas and think, "Oh, well Timmy's mature for his age," but that doesn't mean you should let Timmy play a game that's clearly meant for those over 17.

I personally hope Take Two embraces the AO rating so they can take the game farther, and not be held back by rating considerations.They can then make GTA anything they want, as disturbing and violent as they can possibly imagine. Pushing the limits of what entertainment, and true freedom in gaming, can be.I doubt it would have much effect on sales, there's always the internet.

Pornography in games is inevitable, and it's up to parents to talk to their kids and educate themselves on what is what.We might not see it this next generation of consoles, but in the near future there will be games that are PURELY pornographic (adult movie maker?). There are already games for the PC that come close, virtual sex programs and whatnot (just nothing big budget yet).

What we are seeing right now is what they saw back when X-rated movies first started being made. All the conservatives back then made a big fuss over those movies (Larry Flynt, etc), just like they are making a fuss over these games now. It will pass, and then we will have true virtual reality to worry about, gaming implants, 'jacking-in'. Now THAT will be interesting.

Gamers who are criminals for playing illegal games... Imagine serving jailtime just for playing GTA 10.

Oh, no doubt that that game should be played by kids, people just ignore details and make too many assumptions about labels and things, when it clearly says "not to be played by children under 17". I completely agree.

Just curious, what are your opinions of bad publicity helping games like GTA?

Bad publicity will only help games to a point. You might sell a ton of games because of controversial publicity (such as what GTA has been getting) at first, but over time if the game isn't good people won't buy it. Here are the magic formulas:

No publicity + bad game = no sales.Good publicity + bad game = good sales at first, and then a drop-off (usually) as the reviews and work of mouth spreads (look at Enter the Matrix!)"Bad" publicity + bad game = good to big sales in the first few weeks, maybe (look at The Guy Game, didn't do that great), and then little to nothing over time.No publicity + good game = zero to great sales, it's amazing what timing and word of mouth can do for a great game.Good publicity + good game = good to awesome sales, simple."Bad" publicity + good game = awesome to GTA-type sales.

Remember, GTA-type games come around perhaps once every couple of years, if that. The problem we're seeing now is that video game companies are trying to release the next GTA. They want "bad" publicity because "bad" publicity instantly makes people think, "wow, if this game is bad for you (just like GTA) then it MUST be as GOOD as GTA!" Which is completely wrong and illogical, but that is the strength of branding and that is what is happening.

Look at what happened for "True Crime: Streets of LA" a few years ago. It came out in a year in which there was no new GTA games. They did everything they could to appear as the "new" GTA game ... and it worked. The game got some press, both good and "bad", and even though the game only had mediocre reviews it was seen as "the next GTA" so sales were fantastic.

Same thing is happening for "25 to Life" right now. Everyone I know, including myself, wants to see and play this game now, just to "see what all the fuss is about". Sales for that game are pretty much guaranteed to be good/fantastic now as it is going to be seen as the "new" GTA game this year.

In the end there is no such thing as bad publicity, it's just what you do with the publicity you get that matters.

Pornography in games is inevitable, and it's up to parents to talk to their kids and educate themselves on what is what.We might not see it this next generation of consoles, but in the near future there will be games that are PURELY pornographic (adult movie maker?). There are already games for the PC that come close, virtual sex programs and whatnot (just nothing big budget yet).

I absolutely agree. Parents are ultimately responsible for the games their kids are playing but most do not have an interest in them so long as it keeps little Johnny busy and I don't have to deal with him. Parents should educate themselves on the game ratings and what they mean but many do not or do not care. I also agree that they will later try to blame the game when it had nothing to do with how their child turned out. It was probably due to lack of attention and no one caring. As far as the pornopraphy issue.. sex sells bottom line and I agree that it will eventually find its way into the world of gaming.

I think they showed the video of that on X-play. It was censored with these censor bubbles so they could have just censored it even though they were wearing clothing.

« Last Edit: July 08, 2005, 04:33:24 pm by GameManic »

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"Listen, I mean that from my knowledge of the world that I see around me, I think that it is much more likely that the reports of flying saucers are the results of the known irrational characteristics of terrestrial intelligence than of the unknown rational efforts of extra-terrestrial intelligence."-Richard Feynman

they didnt do the whole cute kitty/ puppy or lame politician blocking the action: violent or otherwise?the pics most sites offer are of the fully clothed ped models but the mod and the video were done using a nude skin on the girlfriend.I wonder what it would look like if cj was wearing the pimp suit?..... NO! wait I don't want to know.....

on the same issue anyone ever hear of a Sims ripoff calle the singles.... looks like a B-porn simulator.

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"6.4 Um's per minute" or "The Speed of Wright

An adventurer in the land of who gives a ****

The idea is to mix one ingredient that will burn very fast with a second ingredient that will supply enough oxygen for that burning. This burns so fast, it's an explosion.

on the same issue anyone ever hear of a Sims ripoff calle the singles.... looks like a B-porn simulator.

I heard about that but that was an AO title. I don't even think they sold it in stores. As fars as that GTA mod goes, I don't think they would put some nude skins like that in there. Especially if they have a sex animation.

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"Listen, I mean that from my knowledge of the world that I see around me, I think that it is much more likely that the reports of flying saucers are the results of the known irrational characteristics of terrestrial intelligence than of the unknown rational efforts of extra-terrestrial intelligence."-Richard Feynman

on the same issue anyone ever hear of a Sims ripoff calle the singles.... looks like a B-porn simulator.

I heard about that but that was an AO title. I don't even think they sold it in stores. As fars as that GTA mod goes, I don't think they would put some nude skins like that in there. Especially if they have a sex animation.

they sold it in stores, my point was that while sex may sell, a simulation of it doesn't, if you check games with a sexual nature as its only selling point don't sell well at all

Logged

"6.4 Um's per minute" or "The Speed of Wright

An adventurer in the land of who gives a ****

The idea is to mix one ingredient that will burn very fast with a second ingredient that will supply enough oxygen for that burning. This burns so fast, it's an explosion.

On the point of parents not understanding the ESRB i think it will become a matter of as those who grew up on the games start having there own kids they will already undertsand what is in games and posibly be playing those games them selves and therefore be taking a more active interest in what there children play it's just for modern day didn't grow up on it. Just need time for society to catch up with technology.

I haven't seen it uncensored, but from what I've seen and from what i heard. The mod jsut activated the footage. From what I've seen it looks like the same style rockstar uses in game and also I've heard the ps2 version has the footage in it to but with no mod to bring it out.

If you ask me, game developers shouldn't be held responsible for content which nobody can activate in-game. Since someone has to make a mod or post a howto to unlock the content (say, through editing INI files, if it's something really simple), it isn't the developers fault that someone has gone and made that mod/howto/whatever. On the other hand, if the content is sitting on one of the game CDs as a video file which anyone can play, then I'd say they're responsible for people who view the content. But most games don't seem to have video content and the like in a format which can be easily played outside the game.

Disabling content instead of removing it seems pretty common, especially if the developers have run out of time. The KOTOR2 team did it (with additional ending scenes, voice acting, and scripts which they presumably didn't have time to finish and tie together), the TOEE team did it (There was a brothel and some quests for it which were merely disabled rather than entirely removed. The Circle of Eight fan-patch re-enabled it), and there're probably other instances that I haven't heard about.

"We can confirm the ESRB is conducting an investigation and that we will be complying fully with their enquiries. We thoroughly support the work of the ESRB, and believe that it has an exemplary record of rating games and promoting understanding of video game content,"

« Last Edit: July 10, 2005, 09:23:31 pm by golgrig »

Logged

"6.4 Um's per minute" or "The Speed of Wright

An adventurer in the land of who gives a ****

The idea is to mix one ingredient that will burn very fast with a second ingredient that will supply enough oxygen for that burning. This burns so fast, it's an explosion.

On the point of parents not understanding the ESRB i think it will become a matter of as those who grew up on the games start having there own kids they will already undertsand what is in games and posibly be playing those games them selves and therefore be taking a more active interest in what there children play it's just for modern day didn't grow up on it. Just need time for society to catch up with technology.

Very true. I know that syphonbyte Jr. isn't going to be playing M rated games when he's 12.

Quote from: Gaming Steve

Look for a new Gaming Steve exclusive about this very topic in the next 24-hours... I think you guys are going to like this one.

I posted the new episode of Gaming Steve in which I interview Dennis McCauley from gamepolitics.com. He was one of the key people who broke this story and has written about this topic extensively over the past few weeks. This is definitely a more "serious" episode than normal, but I think an important one and many of your will find it interesting.