Cat's and Brian did a fabulous job, but unfortunately, it seems Bill Garretson is a bit incoherent. Beyond being difficult to understand (audibly), he speaks in long "yarns", and seems a tad, shall we say, delusional. Most of the folks in the "chat room" agreed... Bill's account is implausible, if not outright ridiculous at times. Here's a few of the main points:

1) Bill first explains (essentially), that he went to California to avoid being drafted. He then back-pedals, and says "he wanted to see the country he'd be defending... and would have gone to Canada if he was dodging the draft".

2) No Sex with Parent... a "radio sales pitch" ONLY.

3) The phone lines were ALREADY cut when Garretson arrived home!

4) Bill claims no phone calls were placed from his residence that night. (De-bunked by Cats on the spot, by a letter written by Jerry Friedman, who received a call from Steve Parent that night).

5) Bill HEARD "popping noises"... and was angry at Parent... convinced Parent was "throwing firecrackers" OR "making his car backfire". How do you make a car backfire??

6) He was 'writing letters" and HEARD SCREAMS.

7) He put down what he'd been writing, and "peeked out" and SAW "a man straddled over another".

8) He SAW two women running from the main hoouse.

9) Bill HEARD a woman say "stop, I'm already dead".

10) He "peeked" a second time, and HEARD "heavy breathing" and 'whispering" coming towards his front door.

11) He went "back to writing letters".

12) At one point he says he was "up all night"... at another point, he says "he finished his letters and went to sleep".

13) THEN it gets BIZARRE. He claims at some point afterwards, three men came to his door (at least one wearing a "pressed suit"). One man was holding a baby, wrapped in a blanket... and the baby had THREE EYES! Lynyrd shits you not! LOL It's mental. Then he back-pedals, and says the "third eye, could have been a birth mark". One of the men (pointed a gun at him), and asked to use the phone. Garretson said he was afraid, knowing there was no usable phone in the house. (There's even inferences... the baby could have been Sharon's).

That about sums it up. Although Cats and Brian did a fabulous job, and it was all quite entertaining, no real information could be taken from this interview. It seems Bill has been victimized by the event, and he's not quite coherent. Substance abuse? Who knows...

garretson was in a very bad motorcycle accident several years ago and lost both his legs and suffered brain damage. i don't know how he can have a job. if he claimed this in the interview, i would think he was suffering from dementia.

I'm wondering if Garretson has advanced senility, or maybe he never was quite "all there". If you read his polygraph transcript, he's unclear even back in 1969 as to exactly what happened, rambling on and on about stuff, running events into each other.

Beauders said:>>>>"garretson was in a very bad motorcycle accident several years ago and lost both his legs and suffered brain damage".<<<<

Hi Beauders.

Well... if this is true, it explains a lot.The man sounded very old beyond his age, and he talked in circles.

I have to wonder if Cats and Brian were aware of this accident, and his resulting condition, at the time of the interview.Generally, Cats doesn't miss anything... so, I'm assuming she was aware of this...

Beauders... do you know of an article, or newspaper clipping which proves this motorcycle accident (and the resulting injuries), took place?If so, please e-mail it to me.

Don't let this motorcycle accident get in the way, even if it's true. Please understand that WG has basically been incoherent and inconsistent ever since he was arrested at Cielo Drive. Whether he ever was better than this, only the good people of pre-1969 Ohio might know.

His IQ must be terribly low, perhaps even bordering on retardation. He, of course, has had quite a shock...whether this is what brought this on or not is a mystery to me. But living with the aftermath WG has been a quite sad case.

What I believe in this account is his story from when SP left to when the men in black show up. The walk-in closet story is much more believable than the I didn't hear anything story...especially with the dogs being present.

don't know about parent and garretson but i had a friend in the early 80s who went to cali to collect a 'debt' from someone. he ended up at 10050 cielo and was hit on by altobelli on the same trip! he knew nothing about the manson murders and did'nt know where he was til someone told him later.

katie, I always thought Parent went to Garretson's on the pretense of selling a clock radio because he wanted to try to catch a glimpse of the movie stars Garretson worked for, not because he was romantically involved with Garretson. Parent had a girlfriend. I don't know where the COL came up with this theory, either. Probably because selling a clock radio at that time of night seems ridiculous; but it doesn't mean you're gay. Not that there's anything wrong with that...

Carol, it's funny, I was just thinking...why would a guy get off work late at night and speed over to some guy's house that he only met once with the only pretext being to sell a clock radio.

I agree, there's got to be more to it than that. You can sell a clock radio anywhere. He could have just sat out on his sidewalk one day to sell a clock radio.

So, it could very well be just to see "movie stars". I think that when he dropped Garretson off the first time, he asked who lived there, and Garretson said "movie stars". And maybe he just felt like having a couple of beers with someone, and brought the clock radio in in hopes that he might sell it.

I know when he left Garretson's he said he was going to another guy's house to try to sell the clock radio, but that doesn't make him gay.

someone(call him steve) owed him money for a LARGE amount of weed. steve knew altobelli somehow and told my friend(call him billy) to meet him there thinking that it would freak billy out you had to know steve to know that he had a sick sense of humor and was'nt trying to intimidate bill at all. anyway billy shows up at the address he was given knocks at the door hes let in by a creepy looking older guy who shows him into the living room and says steve will be here soon. of course steve doesnt show up for an hour and billy has to fend off the creepy older guys advances. after awhile steve shows up with bills money and they leave to go out for dinner before billy gets on a plane to come home. at dinner steve asks billy if he had a good time with rudi billy says no i did'nt thank you very much! then billy says man that was a creepy guy and a creepy house. steve says you don't know where you just were do you? that was the room sharon tate was murdered in! can't remember if steve said altobelli owned the place,lived there or was just hanging out but thats the name of guy that was hitting on billy.

when billy got back to town he came to my apartment got out my paperback of helter skelter and turned to the photo of the living room.'i was there,i was right there!'

a funny sidenote was that steves sister was in a zz top video i think it was legs...i believe she was wearing a red dress in the vid. as for rudi maybe he swung both ways but going by what billy said i doubt it!

William Garretson was also involved with Rosie Tate Polanski. Rosie as you all know is Roman and Sharons unborne daughter. Somewhere on the net there is a pitcure of them together; it nearly looks like they having some sort of romance.

Well look who we have here..straight outta the Denver Underground..not Compton..no.

Sorry about the lack of DOOM bro but I'm almost positive your buddies over at godlikeproductions have a million insiders talking about the NEXT BIG EVENT that will obliterate us all if that makes you feel any better...

If anyone was going to have a slight bit of sympathy and possibly even understand where poor William was comming from I thought it would be you Hippie Scholar...come on your among friends you must have some insight...aliens..men in pressed suits sneaking around in the dark..this is right up your alley right???

>>>Well look who we have here..straight outta the Denver Underground..not Compton..no.<<<

They don't have those up in Canada do they?

>>>>Sorry about the lack of DOOM bro but I'm almost positive your buddies over at godlikeproductions have a million insiders talking about the NEXT BIG EVENT that will obliterate us all if that makes you feel any better...<<<<

There came into Egypt a Pharaoh who did not know ......

It reminds me of the opening of the old "Kung-Fu" series where Master Po tells his pupil, "As quickly as you can, snatch the pebble from my hand" ..... (The pupil attempts to take the pebble but fails in his attempt)

The master replies, "When you can take the pebble from my hand, then it will be time for you to leave".

Think about that.

Oh, and uh, try not to think so hard, it could strain your brain and you might end up like poor willie.

Seriously speaking this guy Garretson puzzle me a bit. As the only survivor he seems to be incapable to come up with any reliable explanation of why he didn´t hear or saw anything to bother about on the night of the murders. That dosen´t make sense to me.Maybe he was to afraid or in a state of schock to remember, maybe. But why on earth did he involve himself with that Rosie "bogus" Tate Polanski? Where did she come from and what become of her? There is also the question why Garretson wasn´t killed? There could be some truth in that Patricia Krenwinkel knew Garretson since before. If so, she spared his life. But why did she do that? Because she had nothing against Garretson. I have always said that the perpetrators and the victims knew each other. These murders were drug related, and it was also about money. Where there is drugs- there is money. If it´s true that Linda Kasabian had been burnt on a drug deal on Cielo Drive we have a motive. This was pay back time. If some of the perpetrators had been to Cielo Drive before the murders took place they couldn´t have missed the fancy cars and the luxurious lifestle there. Surely there also would be a lot of money.

yeah in Canada we may not have underground bases or gems like Compton.....but we do have UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE and a publicly funded broadcaster in the form of the CBC-The Canadian Broadcasting Corporation...two fundamental components which make this country GREAT and differentiates us from you our wonderful neighbours who we love to hate but mostly love.

>>>As the only survivor he seems to be incapable to come up with any reliable explanation of why he didn´t hear or saw anything to bother about on the night of the murders.>>>

I don't know.

>>>Maybe he was to afraid or in a state of schock to remember, maybe. But why on earth did he involve himself with that Rosie "bogus" Tate Polanski? Where did she come from and what become of her?>>>

I think he was afraid. I think he was scared out of his wits. Why become involved with this "fake offspring"? Mental illness.

>>>There is also the question why Garretson wasn´t killed? There could be some truth in that Patricia Krenwinkel knew Garretson since before. If so, she spared his life. But why did she do that? Because she had nothing against Garretson. I have always said that the perpetrators and the victims knew each other.>>>

I don't think the murderers knew any of the other victims, but I think it's possible that Pat knew Garretson. Now..did he see and recognize her? I doubt it. It was dark outside and he didn't get a good look.

>>>These murders were drug related, and it was also about money. Where there is drugs- there is money. If it´s true that Linda Kasabian had been burnt on a drug deal on Cielo Drive we have a motive.>>>

V717, the motive was neither drugs nor money. I'll explain shortly in a future thread. Linda Kasabian had never been to Cielo Drive before.

>>>If some of the perpetrators had been to Cielo Drive before the murders took place they couldn´t have missed the fancy cars and the luxurious lifestle there. Surely there also would be a lot of money.>>>

I wouldn't consider a Camaro or a Firebird "fancy cars". The Porsche was expensive, but Jay was living outside his means. He had a "beer wallet" and a "champagne appetite".

I wouldn't call their lifestyle "luxurious". They had just enough money to be noticed. These people were definitely not "rich".

If Charlie really wanted to kill some "rich pigs", he should have started at a "real" movie star's house. Sharon was a bit player at best. Her net worth at her death was around $180,000. Folger had more at around $300,000. Voytek had none. Jay was in debt.

You still have it stuck in your head that Manson was directing traffic at Cielo drive when he wasn't.

A clear pattern of Charles Manson getting personally involved in the fuckups of his friends and associates is clearly visible when you look at the activities of Bobby Beausoleil with Gary Hinman and Tex Watson with Lottsapoppa.

Again, this is widely known but always discarded by the HTLB faithful. Why?

It's like you don't want to accept the FACT that Charles Manson wasn't cast in the role that Vince said he was.

As long as you pin the tail on Charlie, you will NEVER get at the truth.

Charles Manson, love him or hate him, basically fell on the sword for his "Friends" which Vince refers to as "Family".

The man who KNOWS what happened i affectionately refer to as the "Pope of San Luis Obispo" and he's definetly the "Peter the Roman" of the Tate/LaBianca saga.

Charles Manson is a Muscian, a Pimp, a Con Man, a Hobo, a Hillbilly and a wise old sage who made the hell of prison his home, but he's NOT a murderer.

He's all things to all people. He's a mirror image of what you see in yourself.

Tex Watson is a murderer.

Only a man of evil can masquerade as a man of God and remain hidden in a cloak of obscurity even to this day.

Watson is Satanic and always was and always will be.

So was Yana the witch and so was Sexy Sadie; a one time associate of Anton LaVey.

Forget the FACT that Sharon Tate herself was a White Witch and was initiated into the coven of Maxine Saunders ..... and before you jump all over me, even the guy who did the Charles Manson Superstar documentary stated that Sharon Tate was part of Maxine's Coven or was for a time.

Forget the crap that took place in Griffith park, in which Leno LaBianca actually wrote about in a letter to his ex-wife where he said he was "Concerned" about what was going on there.

Forget about Salindar Nader and why this guy was chosen to die on the very same night as the LaBianca's but only AFTER the Labianca home was handled.

If you drink the Helter Skelter koolaid and refuse to look at what we KNOW after 42 years of Bugliosi mind-fucking, then you're like a dog that chases its tail running around and around and getting NOWHERE.

William Garretson has fried eggs for brains. He's over, DONE. Finished. His head is on life support. You're not going to get anything out of him that can be translated into english.

You need to talk to the Devil and that's Tex Watson. He knows and satan never spills his guts unless you make a deal with him.

>>>If Charlie really wanted to kill some "rich pigs", he should have started at a "real" movie star's house. Sharon was a bit player at best. Her net worth at her death was around $180,000. Folger had more at around $300,000. Voytek had none. Jay was in debt.<<<<

Ah .... now we're getting somewhere.

"IF" Charlie wanted to ... but he didn't. Tex allowed things to get out of control, as his history seems to suggest.

Remember Lottsapoppa?

Charles Manson would have NEVER set foot in that guys house had it not been for Tex Watson's little drug burn where Tex left his girlfriend as collateral for the cash he stole.

That's a FACT. Nobody can dispute that.

>>>>Dennis Wilson made millions.<<<<

Rosemary LaBianca did pretty good too. In fact, at the time of her death, her net worth was rumored to be even more than abigail folger's.

I'm sure that Rosemary LaBianca was a wonderful woman in life, but she's no James Cramer.

I'd love to see what she was buying and selling and to review a list of all transactions (Deposits and Withdrawels) that were made to her trading account for the year of 1969 and perhaps 1968. The tax returns for the Carriage Boutique for those years might also yield some interesting data.

If Charlie really wanted to kill some "rich pigs", he should have started at a "real" movie star's house. Sharon was a bit player at best. Her net worth at her death was around $180,000. Folger had more at around $300,000. Voytek had none. Jay was in debt.-So what? I´m sure the perpetrators didn´t check the victims bank accounts before the murders. A couple of thousand Dollars would be a big fortune for them-. And by the way, Charlie didn´t have "kill the rich piggy syndrome-."

Jimmy, when did you do an about face and become one of Charlie's foot soldiers? Were you kidnapped and thrown into a closet for days until you came out parroting Charlie's words?

>>>A clear pattern of Charles Manson getting personally involved in the fuckups of his friends and associates is clearly visible when you look at the activities of Bobby Beausoleil with Gary Hinman and Tex Watson with Lottsapoppa.>>>

Jimmy, who made Manson go to Hinman's and almost cut his ear off? Who made Manson go to Lottsapoppa's and shoot him? Nobody did. These were his own actions, his own decisions. Why keep on bringing up these actions, which were Charlie's alone, as a defense for his innocence?

>>>Forget the FACT that Sharon Tate herself was a White Witch and was initiated into the coven of Maxine Saunders ..... and before you jump all over me, even the guy who did the Charles Manson Superstar documentary stated that Sharon Tate was part of Maxine's Coven or was for a time.>>>

That is NOT a fact. It's just conjecture and innuendo, and has nothing to do with her murder.

>>>You need to talk to the Devil and that's Tex Watson. He knows and satan never spills his guts unless you make a deal with him.>>>

I've never defended Tex Watson. I know he's a pathetic loser, murderer AND a liar. Why would I talk to him? He's one of Charlie's greatest protegees. One of the finest, mindless killing machines that Charlie could have hoped for.

Charles Manson would have NEVER set foot in that guys house had it not been for Tex Watson's little drug burn where Tex left his girlfriend as collateral for the cash he stole.>>>

Yes, Charlie went to Lottsapoppa's house. But was he being a "knight in shining armor". No. He went there for his own reasons, which have nothing to do with "saving a damsel in distress" or "saving his family".

He most likely went there to (1) get rid of Lottsapoppa and (2) have something to hang over Tex's head for later murder missions.

>>>Rosemary LaBianca did pretty good too. In fact, at the time of her death, her net worth was rumored to be even more than abigail folger's.

I'm sure that Rosemary LaBianca was a wonderful woman in life, but she's no James Cramer.>>>

I was only talking about the "wealth" at Cielo Drive because V717 brought up the fact that they had "fancy cars".

Rosemary did have a lot of money. Where did she get it? I don't know. Supposedly she was good at the stock market. I'm scratching my head over that one. How does a former "car hop" become a financial wizard?

I will agree with you on one thing. The LaBiancas were definitely not totally legit. Something just doesn't add up.

I'm not suggesting they caused their own murders, just that they had some shady dealings. To what extent...I don't know.

Katie8753Well if the motive is money, don't you go after the "big fish"? Why dally with minnows?-Yes, the motive: Drugs, money and paranoia. Tex Watsons sweeping drug business with Lotsapoppa. Tex was also doorman at "Whiskey A Go Go" for a time. What connections did he get there? Tex Watsons also sold wigs and so did Rosemary La Bianca. We have many loose ends here. Contrary to popular belif Tex Watson was fairly independent from Manson he had a life outside the family. Remember that Susan Atkins told, that before they drove up to Cielo Drive she and Tex took some hard drugs that they had been hiding from Manson. That dope must have been from one of Tex little business activity-.About "kill the rich piggy syndrome."If I understand Charlie right he rather prefer to make the best use of "rich piggies" than killing them. He didn´t go after Dennis Wilsson.

I have no idea what kind of money the victim had. I think Sharon's estate was only valued at $40,000.00 and that included everything she owned. Roman turned it all over to her dad. There's paperwork on the internet somewhere. Abigail's estate has also been mentioned, but I don't remember the amount of hers, Voytek's or the LaBianca's. I think Jay's $ was tied up in his business and home.

>>>>Jimmy, when did you do an about face and become one of Charlie's foot soldiers? Were you kidnapped and thrown into a closet for days until you came out parroting Charlie's words?<<<<

I've said many times that Tex Watson was the main catalyst for the murders, but you insist on placing the blame on Manson, as Bugliosi had done.

The more that you begin to study the interraction between these people, especially in the weeks leading up to the Cielo Drive incident, it's very clear that Tex Watson was acting INDEPENDANT of Charles Manson's wishes.

Tex Watson was running his own little drug business and even Susan Atkins confirms this.

This is where things started to turn ugly.

I'm confident that this is where the paranoia led to murder.

>>>Jimmy, who made Manson go to Hinman's and almost cut his ear off? Who made Manson go to Lottsapoppa's and shoot him? Nobody did. These were his own actions, his own decisions. Why keep on bringing up these actions, which were Charlie's alone, as a defense for his innocence?<<<

Bobby Beausoleil contacts Charlie telling him that Gary is a "Problem" and then you have TJ Wallerman putting Charlie on the phone with Bernard Crowe because TJ thought that Lottsapoppa wanted Manson and not Watson because TJ knew Watson as "Tex". These were TJ's own words.

>>>That is NOT a fact. It's just conjecture and innuendo, and has nothing to do with her murder.<<<

Nicholas Schrek seemed to think this was factual, as i do, and I do personally believe that Sharon Tate being a White Witch may have attributed to why she was sacrificed.

Understand something ... Even Tex Watson himself stated that on the night of the Tate Murders that he was "POSSESSED".

There is a Satanic element to what happened. I certainly believe there is. Yana the Witch and Sexy Sadie were also practishoners of the "Black Arts".

The knife through the neck of Leno LaBianca is a Satanic calling card.

We know that Tex had "Ambitions" and he wanted to be "Somebody".

Also, think back to the story that Bill Nelson told about Mama Watson coming out to visit Tex at a house he was staying at and how she left because of the presence of evil that she said she felt when she was there. That's pretty amazing shit and it ties into the Satanic side of what was happening at the time.

>>>I've never defended Tex Watson. I know he's a pathetic loser, murderer AND a liar. Why would I talk to him? He's one of Charlie's greatest protegees. One of the finest, mindless killing machines that Charlie could have hoped for.<<<

Again, you place Charlie in a position as if he was the orchestra leader of a murder spree.

Charles Manson had nothing to do with what happened at Cielo Crive and in fact was pretty damn upset when Susan Atkins came back and told him what went down up at that house. Manson himself told that to Geraldo.

Tex Watson and his his little drug lord princess, Linda Kasabian, were the satanic disciples that brought down the house of Tate. It wasn't Charles Manson who did that.

Charlie was more into getting his message out through his music and he ended up getting jerked around by Terry Melcher.

Charles Manson was no saint, back in the day, but he was certainly not the murderer that he's been portrayed to be.

There's enough here for one to see that what Vincent Bugliosi had claimed isn't exactly true.

>>>>Jimmy, when did you do an about face and become one of Charlie's foot soldiers? Were you kidnapped and thrown into a closet for days until you came out parroting Charlie's words?<<<<

I've said many times that Tex Watson was the main catalyst for the murders, but you insist on placing the blame on Manson, as Bugliosi had done.

The more that you begin to study the interraction between these people, especially in the weeks leading up to the Cielo Drive incident, it's very clear that Tex Watson was acting INDEPENDANT of Charles Manson's wishes.

Tex Watson was running his own little drug business and even Susan Atkins confirms this.

This is where things started to turn ugly.

I'm confident that this is where the paranoia led to murder.

>>>Jimmy, who made Manson go to Hinman's and almost cut his ear off? Who made Manson go to Lottsapoppa's and shoot him? Nobody did. These were his own actions, his own decisions. Why keep on bringing up these actions, which were Charlie's alone, as a defense for his innocence?<<<

Bobby Beausoleil contacts Charlie telling him that Gary is a "Problem" and then you have TJ Wallerman putting Charlie on the phone with Bernard Crowe because TJ thought that Lottsapoppa wanted Manson and not Watson because TJ knew Watson as "Tex". These were TJ's own words.

>>>That is NOT a fact. It's just conjecture and innuendo, and has nothing to do with her murder.<<<

Nicholas Schrek seemed to think this was factual, as i do, and I do personally believe that Sharon Tate being a White Witch may have attributed to why she was sacrificed.

Understand something ... Even Tex Watson himself stated that on the night of the Tate Murders that he was "POSSESSED".

There is a Satanic element to what happened. I certainly believe there is. Yana the Witch and Sexy Sadie were also practishoners of the "Black Arts".

The knife through the neck of Leno LaBianca is a Satanic calling card.

We know that Tex had "Ambitions" and he wanted to be "Somebody".

Also, think back to the story that Bill Nelson told about Mama Watson coming out to visit Tex at a house he was staying at and how she left because of the presence of evil that she said she felt when she was there. That's pretty amazing shit and it ties into the Satanic side of what was happening at the time.

>>>I've never defended Tex Watson. I know he's a pathetic loser, murderer AND a liar. Why would I talk to him? He's one of Charlie's greatest protegees. One of the finest, mindless killing machines that Charlie could have hoped for.<<<

Again, you place Charlie in a position as if he was the orchestra leader of a murder spree.

Charles Manson had nothing to do with what happened at Cielo Crive and in fact was pretty damn upset when Susan Atkins came back and told him what went down up at that house. Manson himself told that to Geraldo.

Tex Watson and his his little drug lord princess, Linda Kasabian, were the satanic disciples that brought down the house of Tate. It wasn't Charles Manson who did that.

Charlie was more into getting his message out through his music and he ended up getting jerked around by Terry Melcher.

Charles Manson was no saint, back in the day, but he was certainly not the murderer that he's been portrayed to be.

There's enough here for one to see that what Vincent Bugliosi had claimed isn't exactly true.

>>>Jimmy said: Tex Watson was running his own little drug business and even Susan Atkins confirms this.>>>

When did Susan confirm this?

>>>Bobby Beausoleil contacts Charlie telling him that Gary is a "Problem" and then you have TJ Wallerman putting Charlie on the phone with Bernard Crowe because TJ thought that Lottsapoppa wanted Manson and not Watson because TJ knew Watson as "Tex". These were TJ's own words.>>>

Did Bobby tell Charlie to come over and cut Gary's ear off? Did TJ or Tex tell Charlie to shoot Lottsapoppa? Who put a gun to Charlie's head and made him do those things? Nobody! Those were Charlie's decisions.

>>>Nicholas Schrek seemed to think this was factual, as i do, and I do personally believe that Sharon Tate being a White Witch may have attributed to why she was sacrificed.>>>

Nope, I disagree. Sharon Tate was NOT a card-carrying, broom-riding, sign-toting witch. PERIOD!

>>>Also, think back to the story that Bill Nelson told about Mama Watson coming out to visit Tex at a house he was staying at and how she left because of the presence of evil that she said she felt when she was there. That's pretty amazing shit and it ties into the Satanic side of what was happening at the time.>>>

Oh yeah, Bill Nelson. He's the pillar of truth.

Mama Watson was upset that her son was living in filth with jobless nobodies, not attending college like he said he would, and basically fucking his life up. She left and asked him to go with her.

>>>Charles Manson had nothing to do with what happened at Cielo Crive and in fact was pretty damn upset when Susan Atkins came back and told him what went down up at that house. Manson himself told that to Geraldo.>>>

Jimmy you must be smoking some good crack. Manson had EVERYTHING to do with Cielo Drive. And Waverly Drive. Manson ordered the murders at both places. The only difference between Manson and Watson is that Manson didn't perform his deeds. He got Tex and the girls to do them.

That's why he shot Lottsapoppa. To hold it over Tex's head so he would kill.

It sounds to me like Charlie thought that Gary was jerking bobby around. Even bobby had said that Gary pulled a gun on him.

Charlie got called into something that wasn't of his doing and he was pissed.

As for the slicing of the ear .... shit happens. I'm sure he didn't plan it that way. He had the sword and I also believe that Bruce Davis went with him.

Had Gary retuned the money for the bad mescaline that he had sold to bobby, that more than likely would have been the end of it.

>>>>Did TJ or Tex tell Charlie to shoot Lottsapoppa? Who put a gun to Charlie's head and made him do those things? Nobody! Those were Charlie's decisions.<<<<

You're missing the whole point here Katie.

Charlie KNEW that Tex's girlfriend was being held captive and would probably have been murdered had Manson not intervened.

It's been said that Bernard Crowe had said that he was going to come down to spahn and start killing people there.

Manson wasn't going to walk into that place unarmed, in fact, he didn't even have to go since this was Tex Watson's screwup but this situation posed an immediate danger to those people staying at Spahn.

Manson went there not to Kill Bernard Crowe, but to defuse the situation with him. Manson even offered his own life but, as TJ Wallerman had stated, Bernard Crowe said that it had to be the girl.

>>>Jimmy said: There's more bullshit in this case than there is fact.>>>

You got that right bucko.

Everything you're peddling is bullshit.

Charles Manson is guilty. Guilty of ordering murders, guilty of attempted manslaughter, guilty of abusing children and young people, guilty of leading people astray, guilty of theft, guilty of pimping, guilty as charged!!!

Charles Manson was ALWAYS in charge. He never lost control until after his followers finally woke up to the fact that he wasn't "Jesus", he was just another shyster, another con man looking for a shill.

He was ordering murders while in jail. He was ordering his minions to shave their heads, carve their foreheads, make threats, make hang-up phone calls, stalk people, crawl to the courthouse, sit on the sidewalk and sing, chant and talk gibberish, and finally to rob a gun store to get him out.

You wouldn't know the truth if it swam up behind you and bit you on the ass.

You, and the rest of your obsessive blog cult members along with their facebook picture stealing stalker sickofans are what gives Charles Manson a bad reputation that he probably doesn't really deserve.

You sickos have pumped this case like a cheap penny stock and milked it for all it was worth, portraying Manson as the Devil, yadda, yadda, yadda when the reality is that you bitches are even worse than he ever was.

You try to portray yourselves as knowledgeable researchers when the vast majority of you are nothing more than a pack of fucking idiots who cling onto something because it makes them feel morally superior to others.

Even with William Garretson, it's almost beyond pathetic how you all latch onto a borderline retard like and act like he's got all the answers.

That's just tragically SAD. Maybe if somebody had the bright idea of interviwing this guy 30 years ago, you might have gotten something intelligle out of his mouth.

I have to laugh; you dirtbags sit there drooling like the social deviants that you are salivating over what you might believe to be a new FACT or shred of evidence hinting at motive.

This blog has become more like Sgt Peppers Lonely Hearts Club for HTLB addicts.

What's Colonel Fucktard going to do now that this case is becomming as old as the Panamints?

Maybe you can answer that one Colonel Katie since we all know that the Colonel is the sockpuppet master of cyberspace?

You are NEVER going to get a final answer on what happened unless you fly Tex Watson out of the country in the middle of the night and take him to one of those Bulgarian getaway places that the CIA likes to use when they entertain their guests.

The only time that people step foward to provide anything NEW is when they're either looking for money or are peddling a new book.

Nobody comes foward because they have a conscience. The human animal is a vile creature thats driven by his own passions.

Hi Jimmy. Are you broadcasting from your basement again? Better watch out for those Brown Recluses. They can be prittttyyy-naaaasty. HA HA.

>>>You wouldn't know the truth if it swam up behind you and bit you on the ass.>>>

I beg to differ. We know it better than you do.

>>>You, and the rest of your obsessive blog cult members along with their facebook picture stealing stalker sickofans are what gives Charles Manson a bad reputation that he probably doesn't really deserve.>>>

We don't steal facebook pictures. You've got the wrong blog bucko.

>>>You try to portray yourselves as knowledgeable researchers when the vast majority of you are nothing more than a pack of fucking idiots who cling onto something because it makes them feel morally superior to others.>>>

And you differ how....???

>>>I have to laugh; you dirtbags sit there drooling like the social deviants that you are salivating over what you might believe to be a new FACT or shred of evidence hinting at motive.>>>

And what NEW facts have you come up with Jimmy? Oh...let's see....Charlie says he's innocent. Oh yeah....THAT'S NEW!! HA HA.

>>>What's Colonel Fucktard going to do now that this case is becomming as old as the Panamints?

Maybe you can answer that one Colonel Katie since we all know that the Colonel is the sockpuppet master of cyberspace?>>>

Oh now I'm Colonel Scott again. Well, I have to say, if I have to be accused of being someone, I'd pick the Col. Or Lynyrd. I've been accused of being both! Now that's good company! LOL.

>>>The only time that people step foward to provide anything NEW is when they're either looking for money or are peddling a new book.>>>

I'm not writing a book.

>>>This video is just for you Colonel Katie - Enjoy.>>

Hey thanks Jimmy. Why don't you show that video to Chuckie. He might have a "brain cell revival" remembering when he started his cult! HA HA.

So Jimmy, you're down to watching Aussies make videos about "cult building"?

Are you planning to start your own cult?

Let's see...what cult what that be? A cult for jobless, useless, non-performing people? A cult for cretinous, low-IQ lobotomous folks?

Well, if that's the genre, then you can probably start with some familiar suspects.

Give Sandy & Squeaky a call. I'm sure they're looking for a new "master". The one they used to serve is all used up. He's only a banana peel away from senility and grabbing butterflies off the wallpaper.

Or maybe you'd like to start a cult on "alien invasions". Well, you missed the boat on that one. Marshall Applewhite already did that one to death. And I mean that literally. HA HA.

But since you're following Aussies, maybe you're thinking of doing a "kangaroo cult". The one wherein someone has to live in the pouch. I'll tell you what...those big ole back feet can kick the hell outta somebody. Have you ever been "clomped" by a kangaroo? HA HA.

As long as this Camping fucker stays alive, he will perpetuate his death knoll to any idiot that will listen, and continue to hear the "ca-shing" of the cash register every time he he pushes the "sale button". HA HA.

Truth be told, these girls can't carry a tune in a bucket, especially acapella. If it wasn't for the echo sound chamber, it would sound like a cacophony of strange noises blended together of a horse giving birth and a girl's choir on their first recitation that was tone-deaf. LOL.

Jimmy baby did you forget to take your meds?? I will say this though I bet you are the life of the party when you get all manic and start with the armageddon stuff..insert some Alex Jones mumbo jumbo and its like time to blast off..

What else..oh yeah did you know Jimmy that you have your own theme song..since I heard this I cannot stop laughing..its so fitting on so many levels so check it out-- hope you dig it as much as I do:

Thanks Katie and as much as I would love to take credit for finding the Monkey Boy song this I cannot do. I came across it on someone's youtube channel who I will not name in case they do not want to be outed..hahhaa but yeah its a great song for a great guy and therefore I was compelled to share it with the world!!

>>>What else..oh yeah did you know Jimmy that you have your own theme song..since I heard this I cannot stop laughing..its so fitting on so many levels so check it out-- hope you dig it as much as I do:<<<

I don't endulge myself in the idiotic ramblings of the FAN BASE that you do Tramp, being the real Tramp that you obviously are.

The only song that fits me is the one performed by Carly Simon, "NOBODY DOES IT BETTER" !

That says it all right there. End of Story.

Anyway, have fun kiddies and sickofans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaV-6qerkqI

Let me know when you stalk up some new facebook pictures. Maybe another one of Ruth Ann's kids may take some new video footage or something.

I don't endulge myself in the idiotic ramblings of the FAN BASE that you do Tramp, being the real Tramp that you obviously are.----------------------------------->>>nice David Icke reference btw..let me guess is he your role model..someone who is possibly even more out of touch with reality than yourself...yes a perfect ROLE MODEL FOR A DUMMIE..its all making sence now.

And wait a second did you just call me a TRAMP???hahahaaa thats awesome comming from an A list misogynist like you..seriously I expect nothing less from your type...so I am guessing you didn't like the song then??

FRIENDS

"Charlie Manson is a five foot seven schizophrenic, who if it weren't for the murder of Sharon Tate, would never be known or discussed. And I'm not saying he isn't funny and entertaining. I'm saying he's a dime a dozen criminal-class punk, who had the good fortune of running into some middle class pseudo-revolutionary white girls." -- Tom G

"The simple and undeniable truth, is that Charlie and the gang were/are the biggest idiots, morons and imbeciles on the planet." -- Leary7

"Them fucking fruitcakes could not pour piss out of a boot, with the bottom written on it."--Harold True