you can compare the anabolic/androgenic ratios alot of places have these posted, SD is pretty strong for an oral i would put it up there above anavar and tbol as far as mass/strength goes, prob just weaker than d-bol as it doesnt blow you up quite as much, but comparing designers to injectables (especially the long esters you listed) is apples/oranges

they're all real steroids, they're all pretty different, and they all affect different people to different extents

in general though there's a big difference between orals like SD and dbol and injectables like test and EQ. Obviously there's going to be a huge difference when you are comparing something with a 6 hour half life to something with a 14 day half life. And the anabolics/androgenic ratios shouldn't be taken too seriously.

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<------ Hard to believe, but I wasn't on any anabolics in the avatar shot

I like this question. I have never pinned, but have read there is no comparison with Test regards to appearance and body composition compared to SD for example. Test being much better. Not sure what that means since I have never pinned Test but I sure am tempted and would like to know.

I'm on test and dbol right now. I've messed around with designers. I didn't respond to SD from PP, I got nothing out of it. However, I'm 2 week into my cycle and the dbol is making me a mad man in the gym, plus i've packed on some size. Cannot wait to have the test kick in.

I think comparing designers steroids to "actual" steroids is like apples to oranges.

I will never look back, I may throw in some x-tren, but I will never have a designer steroid cycle solely again.

I like this question. I have never pinned, but have read there is no comparison with Test regards to appearance and body composition compared to SD for example. Test being much better. Not sure what that means since I have never pinned Test but I sure am tempted and would like to know.

I like this question. I have never pinned, but have read there is no comparison with Test regards to appearance and body composition compared to SD for example. Test being much better. Not sure what that means since I have never pinned Test but I sure am tempted and would like to know.

pretty sure test causes a lot more wet gains and bloating then superdrol. you will look a lot drier and harder on sd.. the problem with it vs test is it's high toxicity hence putting a limit on how long you can run it = gains are hard to keep.

pretty sure test causes a lot more wet gains and bloating then superdrol. you will look a lot drier and harder on sd.. the problem with it vs test is it's high toxicity hence putting a limit on how long you can run it = gains are hard to keep.

correct i agree 100% superdrol by itself is not exactly....ideal

but to kick start a cycle of say test e jumped with sd for 4 weeks- thats good cycle

From what I have learned reading both Seth Roberts and Llewlelyns books, is that the current and already banned stock of prohormones/prosteroids are all real steroids. They were all created back in the 1950's-60's and put aside or forgotten in favor of more efficient AAS. They refer to these preferred AAS as the "stand-bys"(deca, Dbol, Boldenone, etc)

As the supplement industry took off in the late 1990's, these forgotten steroids were resurrected and sold as "prohormones/prosteroids" in OTC supplements because they werent on any schedule III list at that time. But, alas, the FN Government has started to catch up......

The question you are technically asking is "What makes a steroid different from another steroid?"

And for this there are many differences. Compound, structure, injectable vs oral, half life, bulker vs cutter, amount of water retention, glycogen etc etc.

Each steroid is different, and many people will tell you any steroid can be used for any purpose (this implies theres no difference). While this is true, steroids ARE different from each other by many factors just like the factors above^^. And because of this, some are better at cutting like winstrol, and some are better at bulking like dbol.

Now, although both can be used for let's say cutting.... I guarantee you if you take 2 people, give one dbol and one winstrol and keep their diet and training constant, the one who took winstrol will look more "cut."

Then there are differences in strength gains between compounds.

And last but not least, sides.

Each steroid has a difference in strength gains, size gains, and sides. These are the three general departments that one takes into account when choosing their steroid and these are the three departments that generally make steroids different from each other. Strength, Size, and Sides. SSS biotch!!!!

I like this question. I have never pinned, but have read there is no comparison with Test regards to appearance and body composition compared to SD for example. Test being much better. Not sure what that means since I have never pinned Test but I sure am tempted and would like to know.

Test is nowhere near as strong as SD. If someone were to pin test for double the legnth of an sd cycle than they would maybe catch up. Test is slow and steady and SD is blow you up quickly.
All orals by nature weather they're illegal or legal designers will put on weight faster than injectables will, however injectables can be ran long and are easier to hang on to muscle mass in pct.

yes they can convert to other hormones other than test. Which is why the libido shuts down because you body stops making test even if your steroid of use is test or not.

See this is where I gey confused. On another board where pinning Test rules, everyone states their Libido explodes while on Test, even though they are taking in exogenous hormones and yet most people here on Orals experience shut down. To be honest, a raging Libido while on TEst is very attractive to me and is one opf the reasons I am considering the hassles of pinning Test.

See this is where I gey confused. On another board where pinning Test rules, everyone states their Libido explodes while on Test, even though they are taking in exogenous hormones and yet most people here on Orals experience shut down. To be honest, a raging Libido while on TEst is very attractive to me and is one opf the reasons I am considering the hassles of pinning Test.

Test aromatises into estrogen. Most designers don't. When you are taking most designers, your natural testosterone production goes down to 0. So you have neither any signficant or normal levels of either testosterone or estrogen, so your libido goes down. Even if you are taking other stuff along with test, the test still is there, and still converts to estrogen

See this is where I gey confused. On another board where pinning Test rules, everyone states their Libido explodes while on Test, even though they are taking in exogenous hormones and yet most people here on Orals experience shut down. To be honest, a raging Libido while on TEst is very attractive to me and is one opf the reasons I am considering the hassles of pinning Test.

That's because you have high test just not your natural test.

So while on test shots your test will be say maybe 5x normal levels, this will cause your body to stop making test all together just like an oral would. However sice your shots are actually test it's okay. Now when adding a oral steroid in it can't take away thr libido because of your synthetic test your injecting.

So the key to figureing it all out would be to rememeber that you don't need your natural test for libido, because synthetic test will do the same stuff on cycle.

I'm on test and dbol right now. I've messed around with designers. I didn't respond to SD from PP, I got nothing out of it. However, I'm 2 week into my cycle and the dbol is making me a mad man in the gym, plus i've packed on some size. Cannot wait to have the test kick in.

I think comparing designers steroids to "actual" steroids is like apples to oranges.

I will never look back, I may throw in some x-tren, but I will never have a designer steroid cycle solely again.

Werd, I'm really only a fan of 19-Nor orals. Freakin' X-Tren was the junt! I still think ACL's Tren-X was laced man. I put on 14lbs in 2 weeks with that stuff!

So while on test shots your test will be say maybe 5x normal levels, this will cause your body to stop making test all together just like an oral would. However sice your shots are actually test it's okay. Now when adding a oral steroid in it can't take away thr libido because of your synthetic test your injecting.

So the key to figureing it all out would be to rememeber that you don't need your natural test for libido, because synthetic test will do the same stuff on cycle.

This is often why people use it for a "base" on cycle. It reduces the unwanted side affects of say, Trenbolone, Deca or some orals that reduce the libido..

I guess what I am asking is.,..why do orals shut down libido while Testosterone injections boost libido?

Did you read my answer above? none of the orals available convert to testosterone and nothing outside of dbol + anadrol convert to estrogen. Without being in a reasonable range of testosterone and estrogen levels, libido disappears in most guys.

Did you read my answer above? none of the orals available convert to testosterone and nothing outside of dbol + anadrol convert to estrogen. Without being in a reasonable range of testosterone and estrogen levels, libido disappears in most guys.

Well said... a good ratio of estrogen to testosterone helps very much with libido.

Designers don't convert into test, and most shut down estrogen production too. Thus no libido.

Man... but the first few weeks on designers... my libido goes crazy through the roof... then down.

Well said... a good ratio of estrogen to testosterone helps very much with libido.

Designers don't convert into test, and most shut down estrogen production too. Thus no libido.

Man... but the first few weeks on designers... my libido goes crazy through the roof... then down.

and thats because they bind more strongly to most androgen receptors that for the first little while your free circulating testosterone is higher than normal. But it still eventually gets all used up, and then libido goes down.

you can compare the anabolic/androgenic ratios alot of places have these posted, SD is pretty strong for an oral i would put it up there above anavar and tbol as far as mass/strength goes, prob just weaker than d-bol as it doesnt blow you up quite as much, but comparing designers to injectables (especially the long esters you listed) is apples/oranges

SD is far more powerful than dbol, that is a fact. Dbol just holds a ****ton of water due to the aromatisation, whilst sd actually dries you out....and it still adds more weight in most cases.

Did you read my answer above? none of the orals available convert to testosterone and nothing outside of dbol + anadrol convert to estrogen. Without being in a reasonable range of testosterone and estrogen levels, libido disappears in most guys.

Yes, read it. Thanx. So it's Test and Estrogen which control Libido? Too much of either and Libido still suffers?

What is it about orals that shuts down Test production since the do not convert to Test. If estrogen goes down, why doesn't the body compensate and produce more Test to compesate like it does with other AI's?

Sorry for the biology questions but been wondering bout this for some time and I think it is keeping in line with thread topic. Not everyone here understands what goes on when they take the two.

Yes, read it. Thanx. So it's Test and Estrogen which control Libido? Too much of either and Libido still suffers?

What is it about orals that shuts down Test production since the do not convert to Test. If estrogen goes down, why doesn't the body compensate and produce more Test to compesate like it does with other AI's?

Sorry for the biology questions but been wondering bout this for some time and I think it is keeping in line with thread topic. Not everyone here understands what goes on when they take the two.

The body has more than 1 set of limiters on it. Itdoesn't necessarily "sense" production of test directly, it senses androgen receptor activity. So whether or not estrogen goes down, it still sees higher than normal activity at the androgen receptor, so it chooses not to produce any testosterone. Basically to little of either causes libido loss, for some guys too much estrogen or even too much testosterone lowers libido. I've talked to a few pros, and for some their libido is higher while they are on their maintenance dose rather than their cycling dose. it seems that over a gram of test a week is where the libido starts to go back down. Mind you its not like its low libido, its still pretty high, just lower than test levels below that. It may just be that its harder to keep estrogen in the normal range with test dosages that high, i'm not sure.

What is it about orals that shuts down Test production since the do not convert to Test. If estrogen goes down, why doesn't the body compensate and produce more Test to compesate like it does with other AI's?

Its not just orals that shuts down test production. Its any exogenous (outsuide source) steroid, ie one that is put into the body. Without getting too far into everything, its a very delicate balance and the body constantly tries to regulate it. This is why its not recommended for younger people to take steroids.

By adding a steroid to the body the body tries to compensate and regulate. The body knows the androgen receptor is still being stimulated so it slows the natural production of test to compensate. And if the outside steroid is taken long enough the body will eventually shutdown its natural production due to the outside steroid's chronic administration. Hence why PCT is needed after a cycle... to help restore your natural production and balance back out this delicate system.

Yes there are TONS of other factors at play here but this is to answer your question in a basic way.

Also your body isn't producing more test with an AI. Test gets converted to estrogen by aromatase and enzyme in the body. The enzyme is blocked by the AI... hence the name aromatase inhibitor. By blocking this enzyme you decrease the amount of estrogen because test can no longer convert to it. But Test can still get converted to DHT by 5reductase unless you are blocking that pathway. You also have to know that most test in the body is not free and is bound to SHBG.... blah blah blah... see its very complicated.

I think we should also remember that everyone's body often times has different preferences on which steroids it likes most. For instance, it's just not in the cards for me to have gyno. Of all the DS I've had, no symptoms of gyno whatsoever. Furthermore, where others put on 2-5lbs of LBM using Tren-Xtreme, I put on 14lbs and held 12lbs after PCT. Still carrying that weight AND some to this day. SD on the other hand (although I'm guessing that Superdrone from PP didn't work out correctly with potency) was relatively mild for my body compared to the 19-Nor. Most other people have the opposite effects. So where one guy says, "This steroid is awesome and stout", others may say "I didn't experience any gains from that same compound." However, the DS industry is far more flaky and fickle when it comes to authenticity of product and consistency of results than the black market for injections and orals. For some reason, companies would rather just lie and make a quick buck for 6 months on a few thousand customers than to actually offer a product with results. Our country has gone to crap when it comes to integrity. End Rant.

I think we should also remember that everyone's body often times has different preferences on which steroids it likes most. For instance, it's just not in the cards for me to have gyno. Of all the DS I've had, no symptoms of gyno whatsoever. Furthermore, where others put on 2-5lbs of LBM using Tren-Xtreme, I put on 14lbs and held 12lbs after PCT. Still carrying that weight AND some to this day. SD on the other hand (although I'm guessing that Superdrone from PP didn't work out correctly with potency) was relatively mild for my body compared to the 19-Nor. Most other people have the opposite effects. So where one guy says, "This steroid is awesome and stout", others may say "I didn't experience any gains from that same compound." However, the DS industry is far more flaky and fickle when it comes to authenticity of product and consistency of results than the black market for injections and orals. For some reason, companies would rather just lie and make a quick buck for 6 months on a few thousand customers than to actually offer a product with results. Our country has gone to crap when it comes to integrity. End Rant.

X-tren worked wonders for me and even at high dosages no gyno. Never had gyno sides. And Superdrol didn't work for me either and it was from PP. I didn't gain crap from it, I also didn't have any sides even at a high dose of 50mg (and again no weight gain worthly of giving the superdrone credit for)