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Went to the Giants - Brisbane game a while back and even though the standard of the game wasn't brilliant it was a cracking day nevertheless. Giants play an exciting style of footy and their skill level is superb albeit inconsistent. The day we were there it was about 24 degrees warm sunshine, t-shirt weather. Perfect. The other thing is its such a great ground for watching footy at. Has a real suburban feel as opposed to a stadium environment. Love being able to walk around the whole ground, watching from different vantage points.

Looking forward to seeing Giants and Swans there next weekend.

Oh and the Giants song is easily one of the best, and kick to kick is the ideal way to cap off the day. Thinking about a 3 game footy fix membership for next year.

‘It’s very hard to live in a studio apartment in San Jose with a man who’s learning to play violin.’ That’s what she told the police when she handed them the empty revolver. The Scarlatti Tilt – Richard Brautigan

I think you are bit harsh on them. We go to two of three games at Spotless to get a footy fix,
and when they are on song they are great to watch. They look they are having a good time out there. Better than watching us most games this year it pains me to admit. Their recruiting of senior players the last few years like Patfull, Griffin, Mumford, Shaw etc has been masterful. They have the ability to score heavily very quickly and finish opponents off in ten minutes the way good teams can. I guess I admire their resilience in overcoming getting wiped out week in, week out for the first two seasons. I think payback time for them is just about here, and they will be in the top 4 next year.

Still don't care.
Bums on seats is how they make money.
I'd rather give my money to charity.
Oh. Wait....

Wild speculation, unsubstantiated rumours, silly jokes and opposition delight in another's failures is what makes an internet forum fun.Blessedare the cracked for they are the ones who let in the light.

The GWS Giants are a complete nightmare in the making for the AFL and the thing is I'm not sure if I'm happy about it or not

I can see the big picture of growing the game and the fact that there is potentially an untapped market but I think the AFL have over-estimated the appetite for an additional AFL team in Sydney and under-estimated massively how hard it will be. Typical patronising Melbournian arrogance about the game and how we should be grateful for a second team. Total under-estimation of how entrenched NRL is and the Western Sydney Wanderers have been a nasty little competitor they didn't bargain for quite so quickly. The arrogance they showed with Sheedy mouthing off at everyone here plus their complete lack of local engagement in Sydney (I'll ignore their idiotic sponsorship of Manly) does not help either.

Whilst there are certainly some other teams' supporters in Sydney who may well change their second team allegiances most genuine AFL fans in Sydney are already rusted on Swans fans and not for changing. GWS therefore need to generate a new support base from scratch and whilst success will help I think its anticipated effect (because GWS are heading for the top for a long long time) will not be a great as some predict.

So the AFL will have an unstoppable team with one of the deepest lists in the modern era - their ability to trade will be unsurpassed - that will be playing in front of a sterile environment with I reckon 10,000 as a baseline maximum. Sure they'll sell out the Swans derby and finals but most of their games will be in a half empty ground.

All the time the AFL shelling out multi-millions a year for a team that is flogging its poorer cousins down south. Can you imagine the reaction when they start winning flags and I reckon from 2017 on they will be in the premiership window for a good decade.

I do believe that GWS could eventually be viable and successful but it will take 20 years and many millions of extra AFL funding to achieve this aim. And add a similar figure for Gold Coast who I think have ZERO chance of a long term successful future being in the sporting graveyard of Australia - as soon as Ablett retires they are simply gooooone.

If you read my comment properly you would note the word eventually - because if they are it will be a long time in the future and after hundreds of millions of AFL dollars. It's a question of whether a potentially viable club is worth all that cash..

Only time will tell.

I'm nor ambivalent re GWS but they will be a thorn in the AFLs side for decades ahead I believe - this is a 20 - 30 year project and I have massive doubts if they AFL has the guts to back in the face of the vested Victorian interests it will face

I can see the big picture of growing the game and the fact that there is potentially an untapped market .

You also see the that's it's a long term project and involves serious investment.
Both the Suns and the Giants were tracking for finals until injuries took their toll.
Both the Suns and the Giants are already equivalent to NRL neighbours.
Both the Suns and the Giants play in boutique stadia more suited to their situation.
All through history new clubs have struggled especially new AFL ones.
So why whinge?

It's a long term proposition, but the AFL is clearly aware of that. The Swans were trailblazers for footy up here which will help them a lot, but don't forget that our crowds took a while to build- we usually have three generations of long term fans from my family at Swans games, and most teams rely on that for big numbers and it takes a long time to build on it. I know a couple of families where one person has been interested and gone once or twice, which lead to them taking another, then another.

Just taking a quick look, 5 of their top 10 crowd numbers games at the Showgrounds have been from 2015- this is their fourth year playing there (27 total games) and they've only played 6 games this season so even with the small sample size and modest numbers, 5/6 of those games to come from this year is a good sign of growth; that one game they played that wasn't in the top 10 was vs. North, who we know only too well doesn't draw a great crowd around Homebush. So far they've had growth in their average crowd size each year, last year got a healthy bump due to playing the Swans there but even taking that game out of the picture their average crowd size increased. This year their average crowd is up again from last year and they're yet to get that healthy bump from playing the Swans.

Looking at their average crowd growth year to year, and removing the Swans game to not get the bump and using YTD figures (that also don't include the Swans) their growth has been- Y1-Y2: 164, Y2-Y3: 257, Y3-Y4: 1331. Ignoring that they've experienced an above average increase in attendance in the most recent year, if you look at the average growth across those 3 years it's 584. If they can sustain that average crowd growth of around 500 per year, by year 10 they'd be looking at an average attendance of around 13k? Given that's just straight on average growth and probably should be based on a percentage increase each year that would compound, and they're likely to start winning more and more games, it leads me to think that number is probably going to be around 15k- and that's before they start getting some kind of generational influx.

The upfront numbers of bums on seats haven't looked great, but they've consistently grown. I might write up a neat counter piece to the next bit of crowd bagging those guys get from the NRL media.

I knew him as a gentle young man, I cannot say for sure the reasons for his decline
We watched him fade before our very eyes, and years before his time

IMO the Giants are far more trailblazing than the Swans. The Swans took VFL and SFL supporters and nailed them as Swans supporters.
It took a long time to build juniors and cement the foundations of a successful club.
Good on the Giants for starting something from virtually nothing. Look on the bright side and the indirect benefit to the Swans.
There are more AFL games in Sydney, more investment in Sydney football and more media coverage.
The Showgrounds development might even have had an influence in the end of ANZ games.
One day they'll be a big Sydney derby and there might be an end to the deplorable Sydney media bias.