Bullets in Adobe InDesign CS4

I'm working on a paragraph in InDesign which needs bullets on the left. Unfortunately adding bullets moves the whole affected text body to the right to make space for the bullets. But I'd like the bullets to move a bit to the left instead and have the text stay where it was.

Always look in the software's Help guide first. If you go to InDesign Help under the Help Menu, CS3 (the version I have) says, puts it clearly:

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In bulleted lists, each paragraph begins with a bullet character. In numbered lists, each paragraph begins with an expression that includes a number or letter and a separator such as a period or parenthesis. The numbers in a numbered list are updated automatically when you add or remove paragraphs in the list. You can change the type of bullet or numbering style, the separator, the font attributes and character styles, and the type and amount of indent spacing.

You cannot use the Type tool to select the bullets or numbers in a list. Instead, edit their formatting and indent spacing using the Bullets And Numbering dialog box, the Paragraph panel, or the Bullets And Numbering section of the Paragraph Styles dialog box (if the bullets or numbers are part a style).

Click to expand...

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Select the set of paragraphs that will become the list, or click to place the insertion point where you want the list to begin.

Do any of the following:

Click the Bulleted List button or the Numbered List button in the Control panel (in Paragraph mode). Hold down Alt (Windows) or Option (Mac OS) while clicking a button to display the Bullets and Numbering dialog box.

Choose Bullets And Numbering from the Paragraph panel or Command panel. For List Type, choose either Bullets or Numbers. Specify the settings you want, and then click OK.

Apply a paragraph style that includes bullets or numbering.

To continue the list in the next paragraph, move the insertion point to the end of the list and press Enter or Return.

To end the list (or list segment, if the list is to be continued later in the story), click the Bulleted List or Numbered List button in the Control panel again, or choose Bullets and Numbering from the Paragraph panel menu.

Always look in the software's Help guide first. If you go to InDesign Help under the Help Menu, CS3 (the version I have) says, puts it clearly:

Click to expand...

Looking for a solution in the help function is always the first thing I do but it doesn't work.
When I change the indents in the "Bullet and Numbering" Box I immediately get a error message saying
"Invalid indent value. Indents cannot extend outside text frame".
But changing the position of the left side of the text frame is of course no solution because this would cause the whole text to move to the left. I'd like to only move the bullets to the left, just a tad outside the text frame.

A funny prob I encounter all the time is that English is not my mother language and while it's pretty solid I still have problems with design/typography- specialized terms, like "bullets" or "indents". This makes it hard to look for a solution (in my English InDesign).

... I'd like to only move the bullets to the left, just a tad outside the text frame....

Click to expand...

One thing for sure, you can't not put the bulleet OUTSIDE the text frame (or you would have to do it manually and align everything)

The bullet can be at the side of the text frame, but not outside.

If you don't want to use the automatic bullet list button in InDesign, another way to do it, is makink a list manually. Do to so, make a bullet first (opt+8), than add a « Tab » follwed by you text. Fianlly in the « paragraph window », play with the « indent of the text » + a negative first line indent. For example.

If you put a 0,25 inch indent for the text (to the left side) and a negative first line indent of -0,25 inch, you would get the bullet a the very beginning of your text box, than a white space and all the text would begin at 0,25 inch.

If you want your bullet more on the « left side » that the rest of the text you probably have before the bullet list, I suggest you do another box for the bullet and that you align it like you want it.

Looking for a solution in the help function is always the first thing I do but it doesn't work.
When I change the indents in the "Bullet and Numbering" Box I immediately get a error message saying
"Invalid indent value. Indents cannot extend outside text frame".
But changing the position of the left side of the text frame is of course no solution because this would cause the whole text to move to the left. I'd like to only move the bullets to the left, just a tad outside the text frame.

Click to expand...

You need to move the whole frame to the left, then set the indent to where it was before for all the text except the bullets.

You need to move the whole frame to the left, then set the indent to where it was before for all the text except the bullets.

Click to expand...

You are da man! Thanks. Can you tell me where to set the indent, I'm new to InDesign.
It's odd though there is no easier, more elegant solution. Because the "normal" way InDesign treats bullets (moving the text to the right) is a typographical desaster because it's destroying the text's fluent outline making it harder to read.... Anyway. Thanks for your help guy's!

You can insert a space before the bullet, select that space, and give the negative tracking. This is valid if you've made bullets manually.
If you have made bullets with "Type -> Bulleted and Numbered List -> Apply Bullets", then you should apply "Convert Bullets and Numbering to Text" first.
Hope this helps.

You can insert a space before the bullet, select that space, and give the negative tracking. This is valid if you've made bullets manually.
If you have made bullets with "Type -> Bulleted and Numbered List -> Apply Bullets", then you should apply "Convert Bullets and Numbering to Text" first.
Hope this helps.

Click to expand...

This is not possible because the area left to the bullets is not in the text box.

It's odd though there is no easier, more elegant solution. Because the "normal" way InDesign treats bullets (moving the text to the right) is a typographical desaster because it's destroying the text's fluent outline making it harder to read.

Click to expand...

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you. I think having the bullets sticking out on the left doesn't do enough to disrupt the flow of the text and make the list stand out by itself (which, in my mind, is what bullets are for). I honestly can't think of any time I've ever seen bullets set up the way you want them to be done.

At work, our writers like to use bullets for everything so I deal with them all the time. I prefer to use this little trick...

Usually, I would just paste the text from the Word doc into InDesign and then right in front of the first word in each bullet you can hit Command + \. This gives you a little cross symbol-thing that will indent each line to that spot.

I am explaining this poorly so go try it out. But you can set up styles to make it work really awesome and quick. Give it a try...

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