What I find odd is that I used to like Leno's standup, and I liked him as guest host when it was the Carson show. But after it became his own, I rapidly lost interest in it. Somehow it became almost a parody of himself, telling really lame jokes and then laughing at them as if they were really clever.

I still liked Headlines, though.

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One thing about Leno, he'll die on stage. He'll work until he can't anymore. If it gets to the point where no one is willing to pay up to do standup, he'll do it for free.

The theory has been floated in the past that comedians tend to hate Leno because he doesn't seem to have the demons that others do.
He's got a seemingly loving and stable marriage, doesn't appear to have substance abuse issues, and by most accounts, comes across as a really nice guy to people.

I suspect that they've missed the possibility that Leno is horribly insecure and this manifests itself in the workaholic ways and wanting to be liked by everyone.

Leno is set to inherit The Tonight Show from Johnny Carson in May. Before the big premiere, he chats about his career in a 60 Minutes segment that also includes agent Helen Kushnick recalling all the rejection Leno faced in his early years — “He was too dark, he was too ethnic, he was too menacing — they actually did tell me that they thought he’d be frightening to children” — and his wife Mavis remembering a casting director who spurned her husband, then put out a notice for a “good-looking Jay Leno.”

and

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Bill Carter publishes a follow-up to The Late Shift called The War for Late Night: When Leno Went Early and Television Went Crazy. Once again, he emphasizes Leno’s insane work ethic — Jay doesn’t even understand the idea of vacations — and obsessive desire to be loved. In the end, Leno comes across as pathetic and desperate: He’s devoted his entire life to his work, and he doesn’t know what to do when faced with the possibility of his show being taken away.

What I find odd is that I used to like Leno's standup, and I liked him as guest host when it was the Carson show. But after it became his own, I rapidly lost interest in it.

Yeah, I've said the same thing. His appearances on Letterman's show were absolutely hilarious, and I liked him as a guest host... so at the time I briefly liked that he got the TS, since it would mean two "good" shows. But he just got really bland. While Letterman too is admittedly sort of a pale imitation of his former self, he at least makes fun of it when he recycles jokes. (Actually, even though this was one of the things forced on him by his evil agent, I liked that Leno originally had 2 songs from musical performers -- at least if I liked the musician!)

I don't watch entire shows of any of the others. I watch very little of Ferguson, who everybody else seems to love.. I record it and others for a funny bit once in a while or musical guests.

Fallon does sort of seem like Letterman in the early days -- doing wacky stuff just to be wacky, and his game show bits and parodies are excellent.

I hope Fred does his Lawrence Welk character while band leader. Heck they could probably convince many senior citizens out there that it is a replay of the Lawrence Welk Show and it would boost ratings.

A couple of observations on the topic. I'll preface this by saying I'm only an occasional watcher of any of these shows and have no real preference to any of them. I watch if there's a guest I want to see. I'm also in the demo that doesn't matter anymore.

I've seen Fallon a few times, and I really like him, but he doesn't strike me as the type that's going to appeal to the younger demos. Just because he's younger than Leno doesn't mean that he appeals to 20 or 30 somethings. From what I've seen of Kimmel, he's CLEARLY going after that demo, as he has a lot more current pop-culture stars than the others and his bits appear geared toward a younger demo. Fallon even admits to being an "old soul" in this article:

I think Fallon is just a younger Jay or Dave, but essentially does the same shtick.

Does Kimmel get better ratings among the desired demo than Dave or Jay do/did?

And I think the days of the Tonight show format are waning. There are just so many other choices out there. TDS and Colbert do well among those demos for a cable show and have a completely different format. Or at least it's presented differently.

As for Jay, it's hard to "feel sorry" for a guy worth what he's worth. He'll keep working, and hardly starve doing it. He's famous enough that people won't forget who he is. I predict he'll be like Seinfeld when his show ended. He'll do all kinds of gigs, which he still loves to do, and I bet he becomes a featured Vegas performer, where he'll do nightly shows for an extended period and he'll do well at it.

I've seen Fallon a few times, and I really like him, but he doesn't strike me as the type that's going to appeal to the younger demos. Just because he's younger than Leno doesn't mean that he appeals to 20 or 30 somethings. From what I've seen of Kimmel, he's CLEARLY going after that demo, as he has a lot more current pop-culture stars than the others and his bits appear geared toward a younger demo. Fallon even admits to being an "old soul" in this article:

I think Fallon is just a younger Jay or Dave, but essentially does the same shtick.

Faillon isn't as cranky as Dave but does have Lorne Michaels in his corner so I don't think he's going anywhere anytime soon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steveknj

Does Kimmel get better ratings among the desired demo than Dave or Jay do/did?

Other than the week when he first moved to 11:30, no.
(See the chart in the article I posted about ratings)

Leno still beat him in demo most of the time.

However, Leno's lead was shrinking and as I stated earlier in this thread, I don't think he could have maintained it for more than another year or two.
(His lead in demo took a significant hit in the Conan fiasco.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steveknj

And I think the days of the Tonight show format are waning. There are just so many other choices out there. TDS and Colbert do well among those demos for a cable show and have a completely different format. Or at least it's presented differently.

I've been mulling over similar thoughts.
I'm not sure that even the Great Carson would do so well in today's environment with everything else that's available.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steveknj

As for Jay, it's hard to "feel sorry" for a guy worth what he's worth. He'll keep working, and hardly starve doing it. He's famous enough that people won't forget who he is. I predict he'll be like Seinfeld when his show ended. He'll do all kinds of gigs, which he still loves to do, and I bet he becomes a featured Vegas performer, where he'll do nightly shows for an extended period and he'll do well at it.

I'm guessing that you didn't watch Leno's final show but at the end when he was saying goodbye, you could tell that he absolutely loved, loved doing this job. For him, it's not so much the money but the fact that this was his dream job.

And by his employer's metrics (ratings), he did the job very well, made them a lot of money, and didn't cause them a lot of problems (ala Charlie Sheen) and was a good soldier for them.

And his bosses rewarded him for all his good work and loyalty by taking his dream job away from him, twice.

I'm guessing that you didn't watch Leno's final show but at the end when he was saying goodbye, you could tell that he absolutely loved, loved doing this job. For him, it's not so much the money but the fact that this was his dream job.

According to most sources "in the know," the money is meaningless to Leno. Supposedly he's never spent a dime of his Tonight Show money and simply lives off what he makes from his weekend stand up gigs.

Since he has no kids, I hope he's got a lot of charities in mind for his massive net worth. Maybe some of it will go toward endowing and creating a museum to house and maintain his car collection.