Leaking Cascade Fill Station -- Brand New Unit

Help! We were told that leaks from our cascade fill station aren't covered under warranty, that anything coming from sea level to other altitudes will inevitably leak, and therefore, we are responsible for fixing leaks coming from our new compressor. I've been working to get the leaks fixed, mostly just tightening from the source right now which does seem to help (temporarily) as we were told by our vendor that we might have to buy teflon tape.

Is this routine and normal? The reason I ask is because I'm so tired of excuses, vendors know them all. The leaks cause it to loose about 1000 psi every 7 days, so to keep those filled up to 6000 psi will be impossible.

Oh and another problem...When I hit the panel lights, the whole system faults and shuts down. Is this a possible wiring problem, maybe we need another breaker switch? I'm willing to own this one, hoping someone else might have had a similar problem.

Do What??...........

HAVE YOUR LAWYER CONTACT THE MANUFACTURER!!

I've never heard of such a thing. If it leaks at sea level, it leaks at 10,000 feet. Or backwards. Someone's messing with you, big time. You bought it, It has a Warranty, THEY have to fix it. Period!! No Excuses.

I just read that reference to Teflon Tape again. Why did anyone put something together without Teflon to begin with?? EVERY Threaded Joint gets Teflon. Any Joints that were assembled at the Factory should have Teflon on them to start with, and any that were put together at your location should also have it. Who put the system together?

Last edited by hwoods; 09-10-2007 at 05:27 PM.
Reason: Second Thought.........

Leaking Where?

One of the Cascade bottles leaks from the bottom of the bottle, there is a bleeder valve of some sort, I can't get a really good view of it, I just know it is still leaking after I tightened it. The unit is pushed up against the wall pretty good so it is not an easily accessible site to take it entirely off and replace the teflon. The other location is somewhere in the filtering system, I think that only leaks until all the air is purged out from that side but the biggest problem is the leak from the bottle.

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, all the joints do have teflon tape, we were just told this would need to be replaced, by us, if it leaks. It was explained to us that this is a common occurance and not covered by warranty.

Help! We were told that leaks from our cascade fill station aren't covered under warranty, that anything coming from sea level to other altitudes will inevitably leak, and therefore, we are responsible for fixing leaks coming from our new compressor. I've been working to get the leaks fixed, mostly just tightening from the source right now which does seem to help (temporarily) as we were told by our vendor that we might have to buy teflon tape.

Is this routine and normal? The reason I ask is because I'm so tired of excuses, vendors know them all. The leaks cause it to loose about 1000 psi every 7 days, so to keep those filled up to 6000 psi will be impossible.

Oh and another problem...When I hit the panel lights, the whole system faults and shuts down. Is this a possible wiring problem, maybe we need another breaker switch? I'm willing to own this one, hoping someone else might have had a similar problem.

the BS meters are pegging into the red...

The problem isn't with the manufacturer.. it's with the vendor who sold it and installed it.

The sea level to altitude line is complete BS... in theory then, a cascade system installed in Death Valley will never leak...

Fact: They should have done the proper installation. They should have come out to your station, checked the wiring to see if there was enough power to properly run the unit.

Fact: I would contact other FD's who bought a system from the same vendor and ask them if they have any problems. If they are being fed the same line of BS, I can feel a class action lawuit coming on.

‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

???????

You have a bleeder valve on a cylinder??? does this thing have an air dryer?
I second (or third ) the bring a check and pick this POS up now!! Then look around for a reputable dealer.
I work in the industrial gas industry and the bleeder on a 6000 psi cyl. just don't compute!!!!
Alan

leaks around teflon do happen, but their problem not yours. Teflon is not a sealant it is a lubricant to make tightening easier, and has been proven to cause leaks.

Apparently this is not a DOT cylinder, but an ASME cylinder. ASME cylinders do indeed have a bleeder on them, as well as a relief valve. It is either leaking thru the bleeder, or at the threaded joint. Either way, I would insist that the vendor deal with it. Any problems with the purification on the compressor should also be dealt with by the vendor. Is this dealer an authorized warranty repair center? If not - I would find one. Either way, any repairs should not come at any cost to you. The "sea level" theory is absolute B.S. If I treated my customers this way I wouldn't have a job for long, and my employer probably wouldn't be a vendor for long.

One more thing - all threaded joints do not necessarily get Teflon. A compressor contains dozens of JIC fittings, o-ring fittings, and flared-tube fittings, none of which require Teflon.

I'm glad you brought that up.Depending on the type of joint,many DO NOT require teflon or sealer.As to the unit,I would give the vendor two options.Fix it to MY satisfaction or bring me a check for the FULL purchase price and we'll get a unit that will operate correctly.Of another brand.Never heard of a bleeder on a hi pressure tank and I can't imagine on a 6000 psi unit why you would have one on the TANKS,After all this is multifiltered DRIED air.We have DOT tanks,so I can't speak to the ASME versions.T.C.

Manufacturer?

I don't want to say who the manufacturer is, from all indications they are very reputable and good compressors. They are made in the U.S.A. and it is a very reputable company, I have no complaints at all aside from the system faulting when the panel lights are turned on...and the frustrating leaks.

They are ASME bottles, it has been very helpful to hear some of the things you all would do, I just didn't know if I was being unreasonable to think it ridiculous we fix our own leaks, and how tight etc. to torque the different areas that are leaking, this isn't our expertise. I feel that if the bottle leaks today, something within the compresser will leak next month, and so on and so forth....

I don't want to say who the manufacturer is, from all indications they are very reputable and good compressors. They are made in the U.S.A. and it is a very reputable company, I have no complaints at all aside from the system faulting when the panel lights are turned on...and the frustrating leaks.

They are ASME bottles, it has been very helpful to hear some of the things you all would do, I just didn't know if I was being unreasonable to think it ridiculous we fix our own leaks, and how tight etc. to torque the different areas that are leaking, this isn't our expertise. I feel that if the bottle leaks today, something within the compresser will leak next month, and so on and so forth....

Judging by the number of problems you are having with this unit the manufacture of the unit is not that reputable. Or they just dont do that good of a job putting together compressors. We bought a compressor last year and nothing leaked and it came from overseas to the US. The vendor installed the compressor and did a complete check of the system once he completed the installation. You sir are getting hosed by your vendor and the manufacturer. I would be demanding full repairs to my satisfaction or a full refund. For the amount of money paid for the system you shouldnt be doing any sort of work like that on it.

Years ago, we had a Bauer compressor. The machine itself, was good. The service company, was not. When it came time to replace the machine, that brand was not considered due to that being the only service company. I liked the machine, just not the company.

And based on what you have had to put up with, the machine would have been returned. There is no excuse for them not fixing the issues.

Sounds to me like this is an installer issue. Who built the truck? Call the salesman up first thing tomorrow and tell him he better communicate with the factory or you'll have your town's solicitor do the communicating for you.

I have had dealings with a most manufacturers in the U.S., and found most of them very helpful and easy to deal with, especially the major ones. ( Mako, Bauer, Eagle, etc) On the other hand, there are some real questional dealerships out there. Getting complaints from the end-user is the only way the manufacturers can police their own ranks and take action against these sub-standard outfits. In a competitive market, they can't afford dissatisfied customers. Call your manufacturer and complain - loudly. The squeeky wheel gets the grease.

I have had dealings with a most manufacturers in the U.S., and found most of them very helpful and easy to deal with, especially the major ones. ( Mako, Bauer, Eagle, etc) On the other hand, there are some real questional dealerships out there. Getting complaints from the end-user is the only way the manufacturers can police their own ranks and take action against these sub-standard outfits. In a competitive market, they can't afford dissatisfied customers. Call your manufacturer and complain - loudly. The squeeky wheel gets the grease.

I got to thinking about that just today. Is it a dealer/install issue or a manufacturer. If it's the prior, go above their head to the manufacturer. I doubt any reputable manufacturer wants to have their reputation blemished by some POS dealer.

Outlook is better

Thanks for the Replies/help/information. I hope if nothing else this tells the distributor that they can't really get away with giving us misinformation. I didn't realize what a long relationship buying a compressor creates between yourself and the distributor and I am pretty upset that there can never be any trust...timeline to buy oil, do our air quality tests and which one to get, service checks, etc. I guess it will be up to us to do our research to make sure nothing else is communicated incorrectly.

I did go ahead and make contact directly with the Manufacturer who did indicate that leaks ARE COVERED UNDER WARRANTY!!! They are going to schedule a service representative for us. Meanwhile the compressor is now at 4000 psi from 5000 psi from about 4 days ago so a pretty steady drainout......

Fixed and Happy!

I don't know that we would have fared as well without all your help and advise on this forum, thanks everyone. A qualified technician came down and fixed all of our problems, he did still grumble a little that they had hoped we would fix it ourselves. I hope we sent a strong message.

Speaking as a distributor of compressors, leaks from the compressor itself are almost always covered by manufacturer's warranty. Other items installed at the same time like bottles,piping, fill stations, etc., should be covered by the installing vendor. If you have a lax vendor, then you either need another one to take care of you or you need to put pressure on them to get things corrected. If your problems are with the compressor itself, then you may want to contact the company and ask them to handle your complaint. They may put pressure on the vendor or have another vendor take care of it. I know that if one of my dealers fouled up an installation and blamed it on my machine, they wouldn't remain a dealer for long.