The group must decide what to do about Vic who was injured during the chase. Elishia wants to let him die but James wants answers from him and he convinces Elishia to operate.posted by DirtyOldTown (21 comments total) 1 user marked this as a favorite

Well. No answers here, only questions. Which is frustrating in a way; I don't mind mystery box shows in general but at some point they have to show some of what is in the box.

-I had long guessed that the Dr. was one of the risen, but this episode reveals more interesting possibilities about her as well: that this happened to her, and she came to Yoorana to try to understand it, only to have Noredgard use her samples to reverse engineer the process. Or else she's been in on it from the outset. And, it seems, she doesn't face the travel restriction that everyone else has had.
-Is Sarah now one as well? I thought the show was going to give us the full meal deal - James winds up with a daughter by one wife, who dies; and a dead wife come back.
-Paddy finding his old will is going to cause some waves.
-What the hell was up with Vic? Like, seriously, what the hell - whatever happened to him, it felt like a completely different character than the one we met at the beginning of the series. Is the show trying to imply that sometimes people come back but there is another force animating them?
-those were some incredibly shallow graves being dug...is that an Australia thing? Maybe a water table issue? Because I would expect that scavengers would dig those two bodies up pretty dang quick.

Looking forward to another series of this, but I'm hoping it starts pushing towards a few bits of concrete evidence. There must be rules - so clue us in on some of them, please?posted by nubs at 9:19 PM on October 26, 2016

Oh, yeah...this episode marks the only use of a gun so far.posted by nubs at 9:21 PM on October 26, 2016

it seems, she doesn't face the travel restriction that everyone else has had.

Are we sure? I kind of assumed this was the reason for her pushing Charles to test every possible exit route out of town.

Is Sarah now one as well?

That was the read I get. Do you think there is a finite number of risen and when one is killed, another one can rise?

What the hell was up with Vic? Like, seriously, what the hell - whatever happened to him, it felt like a completely different character than the one we met at the beginning of the series. Is the show trying to imply that sometimes people come back but there is another force animating them?

Elishia flat out said the person killed at the end was not Vic. She didn't explain, but she said the original Vic died in the car crash. But does that mean the other Risen are not originals?posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:58 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]

Are we sure? I kind of assumed this was the reason for her pushing Charles to test every possible exit route out of town.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but my sense was that she was relatively new to town - and the ending made me think she was leaving. She never, ever showed any signs that the others did during the tests - Charlie was on the ground, bleeding from the eyes, and she was capable of pulling him back and had no distress at all.

That was the read I get. Do you think there is a finite number of risen and when one is killed, another one can rise?

I like that take on it - it explains John Doe's late emergence after Carlo. But the count is confusing at this point - was Vic really one, or was it a difference force animating him? Because when Vic died & came back, no others of the risen had. And does the doctor count, or is this group the result of something more focused, and why should Sarah - who is defintely outside of Yoorana - get to come back if the effect is limited to Yoorana?posted by nubs at 8:30 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]

How terrible/ironic would it be if Sarah was risen outside of Yoorana and could not go back? James would have two wives who could never be in the same place at the same time.posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:12 AM on October 27, 2016

If Sarah has the same driving force in her as Vic did, then I would expect that she can move where needed. Vic didn't display any of the other signs of difficulty while on the bridge; I expect it's some type of thing that takes over the body of someone recently dead for the express purpose of restoring things to normal (killing the revived) and then it probably commits suicide or somesuch. Still would be terrible to have Sarah come back with an absolute implacable focus on making sure that Kate dies.

I don't know, I'm now just making things up like this is my story.posted by nubs at 11:04 AM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]

Oh, and another interesting thought in general -some of the revives clearly have unfinished business:

-Paddy: dealing with his aboriginal family
-Maria: dealing with her husband's assumption of an affair and the fallout of their final fight
-Kirstie: finding her real killer

It's not clear yet if Charlie, Kate, or John Doe do. I don't think.posted by nubs at 11:21 AM on October 27, 2016

Maybe there are two differing strains of risen: legit raised from the dead people and unholy doppelganger zombies.

Fuck, I don't know. They didn't really give us much to go on.

I'm counting on our Australian MeFites to tell us when this premieres down under so I can try and find it on the internet. If it takes fifteen months after it comes out for it to hit Netflix again, I won't want to wait.posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:14 PM on October 27, 2016

Season 2 is supposed to be co-produced with Netflix; I think we should get it for streaming when it is done. Sounds like late 2017.posted by nubs at 12:29 PM on October 27, 2016

One thing I wasn't 100% clear on... Paddy was married to the white woman who was the doppelganger of the awful modern day affluent Fitzgerald? And the person who slit his throat was his son?

So that means he was carrying on a more or less openly acknowledged affair with Kalinda? That makes his murder probably half racism-fed awfulness and half ordinary old jealousy, I suppose.posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:14 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]

ok so Kirstie and Paddy were both murdered and their resurrection seems connected with "setting things right." Kirstie to find her real killer and Paddy to restore the rights of the aboriginal side of the family.

I was impressed with how, so far, they have handled Kirstie's story line. When she meets Kev, there is his relief, but then sadness that her resurrection doesn't matter to him, it doesn't change what he went through. That's an original take on that trope. I am wondering if that's the real focus of the series-the impossibility of change. When Vic is dragging the others out of town he talks about how Kate's cancer will return, she'll have to go through it AGAIN. In his mind, her death can't be changed.

The doc, however, advises John Doe to stop focusing on who he was and decide who he wants to be. To change. i think the doc is someone/something like Vic sent back to "make things normal" who has since changed her mind about what is possible.

I am disappointed with the Kate/sarah story line. Having Sarah die and become Vic's replacement was such an obvious way to solve the two wives problem. I really wanted James to have to deal with the fact that Sarah TRIED TO KILL KATE. Kate had anger and upset and so forth but never did ANYTHING to directly harm Sarah in anyway. Sarah tried to KILL Kate simply for sleeping with her husband.

That is seriously fucked up and they dropped that point fairly quickly. It would have been a lot more interesting for that plot point to get dealt with.posted by miss-lapin at 2:31 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]

I didn't think Sarah knew that the travel restriction meant death. I thought she was just trying to temporarily get Kate out of her way.

I assumed Vic was possessed or being controlled somehow after he died in the car crash. The sudden behavior shift from before the crash was clearly intentional and meant to imply that something else was going on with him.

I'm also guessing that none of the risen are originals. After all, Kate came back with no cancer and boobs intact. My theory is that they are actually clones created by Noregard who have somehow been implanted with the memories of the deceased (but maybe it doesn't work very well which is why the memories are so incomplete and hard for them to recall). I think they were literally planted in the cemetery by someone who wanted it to appear as if they were returned from the dead, to direct suspicion away from Noregard. They probably have some kind of GPS device implanted in their bodies that is capable of killing them if they wander too far away from town. That would allow Noregard to monitor them while they go about their lives unaware that they are living experiments.posted by a strong female character at 6:21 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]

Further thoughts re: Vic -- if my "experimental clones with memories" theory is correct, that might partly explain why Vic is different. He went immediately from dead to alive in a matter of minutes (seconds?), whereas the others were dead for a while before being risen. Maybe that sudden of a transition fucks with your brain.posted by a strong female character at 6:26 PM on October 27, 2016

(Vic obviously is not a clone in this scenario.... since he turned into a singleminded crazy person I am assuming there are different types of risen)posted by a strong female character at 6:28 PM on October 27, 2016

My spouse says that the actress who played Sarah deserves a Special Achievement Award in Acting Pregnant. She waddled, strained, and later even portrayed labor and childbirth in what she insisted was the most realistic way she had ever seen.posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:42 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]

My theory is that they are actually clones created by Noregard who have somehow been implanted with the memories of the deceased (but maybe it doesn't work very well which is why the memories are so incomplete and hard for them to recall)

This is as plausible as anything else at this point, though I would be very disappointed if there isn't an explanation of how they got the memories of someone like Paddy, who has been dead for over 100 years.posted by nubs at 7:53 PM on October 27, 2016

Sarah might not have known it would kill Kate, but she certainly was aware that James had kept her presence secret for some reason. She alerted the police to Kate's presence and then DID NOT share that information with James. Even if we deal with the best case scenario of Sarah just wanted to "cause trouble" sicking the police on someone BY A FORMER COP (or perhaps still a cop merely on leave due to her pregnancy) is pretty serious and wrong.

Now you can say Kate sleeping with her husband is wrong. Sure it is. But it's nowhere NEAR the same in terms of motivation. Kate is dealing with the whole world having moved forward for 2 years and her being in the same place and trying to deal with a huge amount. She, predictably, caved for something familiar.

Sarah, who yes has a right to be angry and I'm kind of shocked wasn't more angry that she didn't know about this sooner, did something intentionally hurtful that has far reaching implications. That's....pretty fucked up. You're allowed to be angry. You're not allowed to sick the cops on someone because you're angry.

So the more I mull over this show, the more worried I get that we're into a very pretty mystery box that doesn't have any answers; the longer it keeps dancing away from giving us anything concrete, the more worried I get with that.

I hope I'm wrong. But the fact that we're through 6 hours of TV without any idea of the "rules" here has me dwelling on Lost and BSG and all the other shows that have danced around the audience promising answers and then never really provided them.posted by nubs at 9:19 AM on October 31, 2016 [2 favorites]

I actually agree with you nubs. There doesn't seem to be a very consistent set of rules that one can extrapolate. The one thing I keep trying to figure out is how can a pharma company have anything to do with something that seems pretty supernatural. My brain just can't see how those two connect and yet clearly they do.posted by miss-lapin at 3:54 PM on November 2, 2016

Just finished this, just in time for season 2, which is coming to Canadian Netflix on Nov 28. I agree totally with what's said above, about how there are way too many questions and not enough answers - and also that I'm not entirely sure the showrunners can pull off a good reveal.

That being said, I'd like to propose an alternative theory to 'clones with fake memories': it's a simulation, all of it. A 'glitch' is an unexpected bug in a computer program. In this case, some of the NPC's have been reloaded into the simulation at the wrong timestamps. Roko's Basilisk has some bugs.

Btw, I still don't know what Vic was, but didn't it look like he had some sort of persuasive power? I'd be backing away quickly from his ranting, but the glitches all stood there and listened.posted by Mogur at 5:20 PM on November 8, 2017 [2 favorites]

Even later to this one, and haven't seen S2 yet, so some of these things may already be resolved. But: Elishia for sure did not die in Yoorana (they make a reference to her having died at the Epworth hospital, which is in Melbourne - well, technically Richmond, but the point is it's yonks away. BTW Yoorana is not a real place, but is clearly somewhere near Shepparton, which is, and is about 200km away from Melbourne - 2 hours or so by car). So Elishia winding up in Yoorana somehow is definitely not consistent with what's been happening when the others try to leave Yoorana. And yet Evil Vic absolutely seems to know that taking the glitches out of Yoorana would destroy them.

I absolutely agree that Evil Vic had some sort of persuasive power in addition to the accelerated healing. When James shoots him, John immediately stops trying to wrestle people across the border, as if the mind control had abruptly ceased.

Also re: shallow graves - no, graves in Australia tend to be the normal kind of depth, those were probably just TV graves. That said, your average scavenger in country VIC is going to be an off-lead domestic dog. (Dingoes don't live in the area, most decomposition will be courtesy of insects.)

In a weird irony, Glitch S2 is not available from Australian Netflix. Dammit. Have to wait to get it from the library.posted by Athanassiel at 5:12 PM on February 5, 2018