I believe Teddy would be so much better in this offense than he was in that antiquated Norv Turner offense. I like, no I love the job that Case has done but Teddy would be better in spreading the ball around and not just buying so much time to look for Thielen. I do like how Rudolph is utilized in the redzone but if Teddy isn't playing it safe and give the playmakers a chance to make plays then he's a better QB imo because of ball placement.

On Sunday, Diggs ran an excellent route and the ball should have been on the outside but it was behind Diggs and the CB made a play on the ball to knock it away. This has happened several times this season where the ball placement has been off. I'm not saying Teddy would have definitely done better but I believe he would have.

My biggest concern is that Minnesota rewards Keenum's one good season with a large contract and he revert back to his usuall self. There are just too many examples of QB's having one good season and get paid handsomely (e.g., Elvis Grbac, Joe Flacco, Matt Castle, etc..)

I'd like to see what Teddy could do in this offense as opposed to an offense that clearly has the same routes as Tecmo Bowl

[quote="Gemfow"]I believe Teddy would be so much better in this offense than he was in that antiquated Norv Turner offense. I like, no I love the job that Case has done but Teddy would be better in spreading the ball around and not just buying so much time to look for Thielen. I do like how Rudolph is utilized in the redzone but if Teddy isn't playing it safe and give the playmakers a chance to make plays then he's a better QB imo because of ball placement.

On Sunday, Diggs ran an excellent route and the ball should have been on the outside but it was behind Diggs and the CB made a play on the ball to knock it away. This has happened several times this season where the ball placement has been off. I'm not saying Teddy would have definitely done better but I believe he would have.

My biggest concern is that Minnesota rewards Keenum's one good season with a large contract and he revert back to his usuall self. There are just too many examples of QB's having one good season and get paid handsomely (e.g., Elvis Grbac, Joe Flacco, Matt Castle, etc..)

I'd like to see what Teddy could do in this offense as opposed to an offense that clearly has the same routes as Tecmo Bowl[/quote

I agree. I firmly believe the biggest mistake made this year was not starting Teddy after the bye. He's a better quarterback. Zimmer and Shurmer know it too. They should have pushed their feeling harder on the captians. It was a safe play for them from a career standpoint though. I can see it costing this team a legit shot at a Ring. December, and into the playoffs is big boy football. From what I've seen, Case isn't gonna be the guy leading them to the promise land, he's been a product of the system and excellent o line play. Come January, football is played on another level, Pressure is real!
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Last edited by Alaskan on Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

soflavike wrote:
I would submit that "buying time to look for Thielen" has been an EXCELLENT strategy for us this season.

When Case has time, yes. But if the Oline remains injured, Case will fall apart. He makes his best throws to Theilen, who I believe is his first read almost every play. Even then sometimes Theilen has to makes some awesome catches. The floaters come when Case is pressured, or has to look for another receiver. If the Oline comes together again, I dont think there will be a problem, and we will win the division. But if the Oline is as bad as last week, I think Zimmer will take a long look at starting Teddy. I dont care who is the QB, as long as we win the division. Im already afraid we have lost the 1st seed cause of how bad the entire team played last week.

PurpleKoolaid wrote:
When Case has time, yes. But if the Oline remains injured, Case will fall apart. He makes his best throws to Theilen, who I believe is his first read almost every play. Even then sometimes Theilen has to makes some awesome catches. The floaters come when Case is pressured, or has to look for another receiver. If the Oline comes together again, I dont think there will be a problem, and we will win the division. But if the Oline is as bad as last week, I think Zimmer will take a long look at starting Teddy. I dont care who is the QB, as long as we win the division. Im already afraid we have lost the 1st seed cause of how bad the entire team played last week.

If the Oline is as bad as last week.
Keenum - 6 sacks 10 hits and 20 hurries a career high.
Why would you want to subject Teddy to that?

PurpleKoolaid wrote:When Case has time, yes. But if the Oline remains injured, Case will fall apart. He makes his best throws to Theilen, who I believe is his first read almost every play. Even then sometimes Theilen has to makes some awesome catches. The floaters come when Case is pressured, or has to look for another receiver. If the Oline comes together again, I dont think there will be a problem, and we will win the division. But if the Oline is as bad as last week, I think Zimmer will take a long look at starting Teddy. I dont care who is the QB, as long as we win the division. Im already afraid we have lost the 1st seed cause of how bad the entire team played last week.

I've been trying not to engage you in these pointless Case vs. Teddy arguments, but I just have to ask ... WTF are you talking about?

Case Keenum through Week 13 ranked 5th in the entire NFL against the blitz, and top 10 against pressure. His great strength this year has been extending plays in the pocket and keeping his eyes down the field to make completions. And "floaters"? Keenum has the 5th fewest throws that could have or should have resulted in turnovers (PFF calls them "turnover-worthy" throws).

And you keep singing this "Thielen has to make awesome catches" tune, which is just plain false. It was more true early in the season, but it's not true now. Not any more than any other top-10 QB. Yes, Top-10, which Keenum is -- despite your never-ending campaign to get Teddy Bridgewater in the lineup.

Finally, given the uncertainty of his physical condition, Teddy needs MORE protection than Keenum, not less.

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
I've been trying not to engage you in these pointless Case vs. Teddy arguments, but I just have to ask ... WTF are you talking about?

Case Keenum through Week 13 ranked 5th in the entire NFL against the blitz, and top 10 against pressure. His great strength this year has been extending plays in the pocket and keeping his eyes down the field to make completions. And "floaters"? Keenum has the 5th fewest throws that could have or should have resulted in turnovers (PFF calls them "turnover-worthy" throws).

And you keep singing this "Thielen has to make awesome catches" tune, which is just plain false. It was more true early in the season, but it's not true now. Not any more than any other top-10 QB. Yes, Top-10, which Keenum is -- despite your never-ending campaign to get Teddy Bridgewater in the lineup.

Finally, given the uncertainty of his physical condition, Teddy needs MORE protection than Keenum, not less.

If you want to continue this sh!t and say Case is the better QB, fine. I was done with it but i'll say a few more things. !st, WTF are you talking about? He had 6 freaking sack when the Oline stunk. I wasnt talking about before that here. Ponder could have played behind that Oline and he played like a horses as$. Also, Shurmur had been calling great plays up till last week, which helped Case a lot. I dont think they threw more then 2 of the short screen passes to Kyle or the RBs that had worked so well before.

Case had 3 turnovers in one game. I think that matches Teddy's worse game, when he had about 1/2 a second to throw the ball.

I DONT WANT TEDDY PLAYING AS LONG AS CASE IS PLAYING WELL. I dont know how else to tell you that. I want the team to win. I have faith Teddy can get the job done as well as Case, but Im not calling for a switch. Yet.

The receivers have all made better catches this year, then since the Moss and Carter days. With Reid pitching in. AT has bailed Case out and given him a ton of YAC. Thats great, I like the short game and let the receivers try and break it. But you cant deny the catches these receivers are making, with Case just throwing the ball in the general direction sometime. Look at Kyles TD catch last week. And Diggs ball that bounced off him. No reason to throw the ball that high. And if you aernt seeing the balls flotaing on Case occasionally, I dont know what to say. He has been very lucky not to have more INTs. I think we would have won if he could hit Diggs and AT on full run and drop it into their hands instead of them stopping to catch it.

Theres no way the doctors would put Teddy out there if he wasnt ready. He has had a lot more time to recover then others who have with those knee injuries. He's young and will heal fast. But your right, he will always be like Bradford in that hes a QB with a knee injury. The Vikes may have to go after another QB this year fairly early.

Finally, I hope Case plays out the season, and playoffs. That will mean the Vikings are back on track.

I don't think he said Case was the better quarterback, I think he specifically took issue because what you said about Case that just isn't accurate ...

When Case has time, yes. But if the Oline remains injured, Case will fall apart. He makes his best throws to Theilen, who I believe is his first read almost every play. Even then sometimes Theilen has to makes some awesome catches. The floaters come when Case is pressured, or has to look for another receiver.

Case is one of the best QBs against the blitz in the league at the moment and the moves he was putting on the Panthers when the oline broke down last game were really awesome. I was actually commenting to a friend as we watched the game how cool he was under pressure as if Teddy's personality had rubbed off on him a little.

"Everyone has a plan 'til they get punched in the mouth." - Mike Tyson

PurpleKoolaid wrote:
If you want to continue this sh!t and say Case is the better QB, fine. I was done with it but i'll say a few more things. !st, WTF are you talking about? He had 6 freaking sack when the Oline stunk. I wasnt talking about before that here. Ponder could have played behind that Oline and he played like a horses as$. Also, Shurmur had been calling great plays up till last week, which helped Case a lot. I dont think they threw more then 2 of the short screen passes to Kyle or the RBs that had worked so well before.

Case had 3 turnovers in one game. I think that matches Teddy's worse game, when he had about 1/2 a second to throw the ball.

I DONT WANT TEDDY PLAYING AS LONG AS CASE IS PLAYING WELL. I dont know how else to tell you that. I want the team to win. I have faith Teddy can get the job done as well as Case, but Im not calling for a switch. Yet.

The receivers have all made better catches this year, then since the Moss and Carter days. With Reid pitching in. AT has bailed Case out and given him a ton of YAC. Thats great, I like the short game and let the receivers try and break it. But you cant deny the catches these receivers are making, with Case just throwing the ball in the general direction sometime. Look at Kyles TD catch last week. And Diggs ball that bounced off him. No reason to throw the ball that high. And if you aernt seeing the balls flotaing on Case occasionally, I dont know what to say. He has been very lucky not to have more INTs. I think we would have won if he could hit Diggs and AT on full run and drop it into their hands instead of them stopping to catch it.

Theres no way the doctors would put Teddy out there if he wasnt ready. He has had a lot more time to recover then others who have with those knee injuries. He's young and will heal fast. But your right, he will always be like Bradford in that hes a QB with a knee injury. The Vikes may have to go after another QB this year fairly early.

Finally, I hope Case plays out the season, and playoffs. That will mean the Vikings are back on track.

First, YOU are the one who's on a campaign to replace Keenum with Teddy. You SAY you want Case playing as long as he's playing well ... it's technically not a lie, but the problem is that you REFUSE to acknowledge when he plays well. If he has a good game, it's Shurmur's playcalling, or his receivers bailing him out, or his offensive line. It's NEVER HIM. If a pass falls incomplete, its "that ball should have been picked off."

Here's a great example of what I'm talking about ... the TD throw to Rudulph. If you're going to use THAT throw as an example of a bad throw, well, you're proving my point. In a pretty mediocre game from Keenum, that was the best throw he made all day. He put it in a tight window between three defenders. I find it unbelievable that you would use that throw as your example.

As for your primary statement regarding Keenum's supposed lack of ability under pressure, when I present you HARD STATISTICAL EVIDENCE of how wrong that statement is, your response is some kind of nonsense about Ponder. Oh, and how I left out Week 14. The only reason I left out Week 14 is because those stats aren't available to non-subscribers yet. But you see it as a conspiracy.

I will also cite another advanced statistic: Turnover-worthy throws. It's an actual stat from PFF. Case Keenum came into Week 14 ranked 5th in the NFL with just 2.1% turnover-worthy throws. And in spite of having 2 interceptions, that number will not likely rise, as PFF will not see the Diggs interception as a turnover-worthy throw (not a good throw, but not turnover-worthy, since Diggs got both hands on it). So I'm sorry, but your "he's very lucky not to have more INTs" statement is purely subjective on your part. Once again, you have no data to back up your hard-and-fast opinions.

In summary: When it comes to Keenum's supposed lack of ability under pressure and penchant for turnovers, YOU ARE WRONG. The statistics prove it.

Now let me be clear. This was obviously not Case's best game. The first interception was really bad. The second one was primarily his fault ... deliver that ball on the money, and Diggs doesn't have the chance to let it doink off his head. A better throw to Diggs at the pylon results in a TD. It wasn't a great game by any stretch. That being said, Cris Carter put it best: If you didn't attach a name to the stat line or the game film, if it were any other starting quarterback, nobody would be asking whether it's time to replace him. In spite of everything that happened, this game was tied at the 2-minute warning, and a lot of that was due to the play of Case Keenum.

As for Teddy, I never said he'd be hobbling around like old man Bradford. I simply said that if the O-line is banged up and leaking, that's not the time I'd want Teddy in there, GIVEN THAT HE'S NEVER ACTUALLY TAKEN A HIT SINCE COMING BACK. You say, "They wouldn't put him out there if he wasn't ready." That's fine, but it seems to me that the time to test that readiness isn't under the worst of conditions. I will concede, however, that is purely my opinion, no more valid than yours.

If you want me to stop arguing with you about this, then stop calling Keenum lucky and give hime some credit. Or give me some data to prove your points.

halfgiz wrote:I agree on the terrible coordinator.
Wallace, Diggs, Thielen, Rudy and Wright had good games. Not a bad bunch of recievers

The offensive line gave AP a rushing title.
Our weakness was our passing game.

Maybe in Soviet Russia the OL gave AP the title that year. More like AP got the title despite the OL. The 2015 OL was HORRIBLE. Kalil Turnstyle, Clemmings basically not there even though he was there...

I do get that the 2015 Offense surrounding cast was not as good as what we have in 2017, but that being said, Case has put up elite numbers. So I still think the question of whether or not to start Teddy is a bit silly at this point.

Winning is not a sometime thing it is an all of the time thing - Vince Lombardi