The next Reboot movies in the 2020s

Comments

> @starkaos said:
> rattler2 wrote: »
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> Except there is a version of Spiderman that doesn't have Mary Jane. Honestly I felt Gwen Stacy was a bit more developed in the Amazing Spiderman movies than Mary Jane Watson was in the original trilogy.
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> And there is the African American MJ from the Homecoming movie. However, Gwen Stacy was part of the Spiderman comics and it is possible that there might have been a Mary Jane if the Amazing Spiderman wasn't cancelled. Forgot who the love interest in the Amazing Spiderman was. Not sure why they couldn't integrate the Amazing Spiderman into the MCU since it didn't have the problems of Spiderman 3.

There is a timeline where Gwen Stacy got the spider powers. Another where Uncle Ben did. Another where Peter died saving the city and a youngster named Miles Morales became Spider-Man (his Uncle by the way got his hand webbed to his trunk lid in Homecoming).

Amazing Spider-Man 2 under performed and they cancelled all their plans...is why that iteration wasn’t brought into the MCU.

Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.

I imagine they also didn’t want a universe that lifted the bad parts of “Hulk” and “Batman Forever”

Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.

"We couldn't imagine not having this movie somehow fall within some degree of continuity. We don't accept the word reboot. Reboot does not actually describe the fact that this movie would not be possible without the 10 movies that came prior to it. The very events of the movie themselves are caused by Leonard Nimoy as Mr. Spock and his story, which picks up essentially after the last movie, Star Trek 10 [Nemesis]. ... So our movie is both a prequel and a sequel. It's a sequel if you're a fan, and a prequel if you're not."

The only connection Star Trek 2009 has with the original continuity is Spock and Kirk's parents. I can buy the argument that it is a reboot and a sequel since it is a continuation of old Spock's story and a reboot of everyone else's, but it is not a prequel. A prequel requires Star Trek 2009's events to have an effect on TOS. Inane lines like "our movie is both a prequel and a sequel" makes me not trust anything coming from an interview.

> starkaos said:
> rattler2 wrote: »
>
> Except there is a version of Spiderman that doesn't have Mary Jane. Honestly I felt Gwen Stacy was a bit more developed in the Amazing Spiderman movies than Mary Jane Watson was in the original trilogy.
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> And there is the African American MJ from the Homecoming movie. However, Gwen Stacy was part of the Spiderman comics and it is possible that there might have been a Mary Jane if the Amazing Spiderman wasn't cancelled. Forgot who the love interest in the Amazing Spiderman was. Not sure why they couldn't integrate the Amazing Spiderman into the MCU since it didn't have the problems of Spiderman 3.

There is a timeline where Gwen Stacy got the spider powers. Another where Uncle Ben did. Another where Peter died saving the city and a youngster named Miles Morales became Spider-Man (his Uncle by the way got his hand webbed to his trunk lid in Homecoming).

And it would be interesting to see a movie of each of these different variations. There is the Spider-man into the Spider-verse movie coming out that has Miles Morales and Gwen Stacy as Spider-man, but instead of Uncle Ben as Spider-man AFAIK, we have Spider-ham.

In which of these movies does it turn out that Forge is Peter's science professor time-traveled from the future where Forge is old? There just isn't enough crossover in the Spider Man movies to make me believe it's really a Marvel story.

A reboot doesn't require discarding all previous continuity from each established series.

"In serial fiction, a reboot is a new start in an established fictional universe, work, or series that discards all continuity in order to recreate its characters, plotlines and backstory from the beginning."

Not sure you understand the concept of what a reboot is...

There are far too many different definitions to reboots which my posts proved which makes the definition for a reboot vague and confusing. Only one definition I found says discards all continuity while the others don't mention it or mentions that it is not always the case. However, most reboots seem to ignore continuity from previous versions rather than discard it.

According to Cambridge Dictionary, "to start something again or do something again, in a way that is new and interesting:"

According to Dictionary.com, "to produce a distinctly new version of (an established media franchise, as a film, TV show, video game, or comic book)."

According to Oxford Dictionary, "Restart or revive (a process or sequence, especially a series of films or television programmes); give fresh impetus to.

According to TV Tropes's Continuity Reboot page, "It should be mentioned though, that reboots don't necessarily replace the originals, and they would may be created to entertain people by category, such as adults, teenagers, to children, while another reason a reboot could be made is that the original is bad, and should be remade to better quality, or just simply made as a different version to be made alongside the original."

Then there is the Continuity Rebooter page from TV Tropes.

Sometimes, creators want to give their long-running series a fresh start, so they decide to make a Continuity Reboot. However, they sometimes don't want to just make a completely new reality for their series, instead making the reboot an actual part of the continuing storyline. In cases like this, one tool the creators have is to use a character to explain the reboot. Hence, the Continuity Rebooter.

A Continuity Rebooter is a character who, by some form of applied phlebotinum, causes either an Alternate Continuity to a work to be formed or the current continuity to be replaced with a new one. The character, whether intentionally or accidentally, changes his reality in such a way that the world becomes a fundamentally different place.

However, this trope doesn't refer to a character doing this as part of an Elseworld or What If? story, as those are non-canonical. It's also not any event which just lasts a little while and is eliminated with a Snap Back or the use of the Reset Button. A Continuity Rebooter must cause a long-lasting change in the series' continuity or create a long-lasting and well-explored alternate continuity to qualify, and that change must be part of the main canon. A series revolving around Time Travel doesn't count, since, well, that is a fundamental part of the plot (so no, Back to the Future isn't an example). However, a series that doesn't normally involve time travel and uses it as a device to change continuity would count if the change sticks.

Another factor in a character being a Continuity Rebooter is that the Continuity Reboot is NOT a complete one. The previous continuity is not wholly discarded, simply modified radically. In fact, a major plot point common to Continuity Rebooters is that the Rebooter remembers the previous reality. This also allows the series' creators to bring back fan-favorite characters and ideas from the previous reality to the new one, or even to bring the old reality back wholly (although never immediately). The new reality depends on the events of the previous one to exist, it's not invented wholecloth (like, say, an Ultimate Universe).

A character is a Continuity Rebooter if:

a Continuity Reboot or Alternate Universe is formed,

the reboot can be specifically attributed to the character's actions,

the previous continuity is not wholly discarded and the new reality depends on events from the previous one, and

the change sticks and is not immediately eliminated.

Usually, the character's mucking with the series' continuity is the plot behind a Crisis Crossover, and he uses the Timey-Wimey Ball or some kind of magic or cosmic plot device for the change. The character can alternatively be a Reality Warper who somehow changes his universe's events.

The definition of Continuity Rebooter is a perfect match for old Spock and Nero in Star Trek 2009. So if someone disagrees with Star Trek 2009 is a reboot, then what is it?

Preboot could apply to Star Trek 2009 which is "an increasingly common variation on the Continuity Reboot, the Preboot is a prequel to an existing story or franchise that spins off into an Alternate Continuity before too long." According to Hollwood.com, "Fan expectations is Hollywood’s biggest hurdle to concocting new and improved versions of well-known properties. On one hand, they can’t cater to them — a movie has to play to the widest audience possible. But angry fans are often the loudest, and negative buzz permeates. That’s why there’s no better creative weapon than a “preboot.” Think J.J. Abrams’ Star Trek or the recent X-Men: First Class. A preboot acknowledges the established history of a property, a respectful nod to diehards, while paving over it with a new creative direction. Time travel is a preboot’s best friend."

So we can just call Star Trek 2009 as a weird Reboot or use a term that is almost a Reboot without being a Reboot.

Since you bring up TV Tropes, there's a new term called Soft Reboot. The Kelvin Timeline was one of the original examples when that page was proposed.

I know that the next movies are somewhere in the 2020s and I don't know which year it would be in that decade.

Nobody does. Last I heard, production on the next films in the series were being held up by renegotiations over actor salaries.

"Two ways to view the world, so similar at times / Two ways to rule the world, to justify their crimes / By Kings and Queens young men are sent to die in war / Their propaganda speaks those words been heard before"
— Sabaton, "A Lifetime of War"

It was Gwen Stacy, before she fell to her death. Spidy TRIED to save her but was like one second too late. Spent maybe the next six months in mourning and didn't go out. Then... eventually Spiderman returned for a fight with Rhino. This was around the end of the second movie if I recall correctly.

There is a timeline where Gwen Stacy got the spider powers. Another where Uncle Ben did. Another where Peter died saving the city and a youngster named Miles Morales became Spider-Man (his Uncle by the way got his hand webbed to his trunk lid in Homecoming).

Gwen "Spider-Woman" Stacy hails from Earth-65. (The mainline Marvel universe is Earth-616, for the address of the building the company started in.) In her world, Peter Parker started experimenting with chemicals so he could be a superhero like her, turned himself into that universe's Lizard, then died of complications. (Spider-Woman was thought to have killed him, and Gwen also blamed herself for letting him start down that path.)

Miles Morales originated in Earth-1610; both this universe and Earth-616 were destroyed during the third Secret Wars series, but a combo-platter version was restored by Molecule Man in gratitude for Miles' help in sorting the whole mess out. He now resides in Earth-616, which plays host to two Spider-Men (plus occasional interdimensional visitors).

Benjamin Parker became Spider-Man in Earth-3145. He retired from heroing after his archenemy learned his identity and killed May and young Peter. Later, when that universe's Ezekiel Sims warned him that Morlun and the Inheritors were coming, he took Ezekiel's advice and hid out in the adamantium-lined room designed to disguise his powers (the Inheritors feed on people with animal powers), emerging only after a blackmail plot by Dr. Octopus went wrong and started World War III. He was recruited by the Spider-Army to defeat the Inheritors, where he was instrumental in rescuing Benjy Parker, son of Peter and MJ (and younger brother of May "Spider-Girl" Parker) from Earth-982. Ben has since settled down on Earth-982 with his "grandchildren", May and Benjy.

Thanks to the nature of the Marvel multiverse, almost every story is canon. Saves a lot of arguing.

"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

Thanks to the nature of the Marvel multiverse, almost every story is canon. Saves a lot of arguing.

Every licensed work in a specific franchise could be considered as canon to the fans if not to the IP owner. It just exists in a parallel universe. This is was what I had to do when Disney decided to throw out all the Expanded Universe content from Star Trek. Some of the novels should be thrown out, but others are far better than the movies.

Thanks to the nature of the Marvel multiverse, almost every story is canon. Saves a lot of arguing.

Every licensed work in a specific franchise could be considered as canon to the fans if not to the IP owner. It just exists in a parallel universe. This is was what I had to do when Disney decided to throw out all the Expanded Universe content from Star Trek. Some of the novels should be thrown out, but others are far better than the movies.

Personally I like what Games Workshop says about Warhammer 40,000's canon. "It's all canon, but not all of it is true." IOW, all fluff is written from an in-universe perspective, and every faction wants to make itself look like the biggest badasses in the 'verse.

"Two ways to view the world, so similar at times / Two ways to rule the world, to justify their crimes / By Kings and Queens young men are sent to die in war / Their propaganda speaks those words been heard before"
— Sabaton, "A Lifetime of War"

My fav is Spider-Man 2099.
Anyway it’s hard to pin down the exact terminology for the 2009 film because it has the qualities of both a sequel and a reboot

Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.

The USS Kelvin, as well as the later seen USS Franklin, are both Prime Universe ships. Its just that the event that started the Kelvin Timeline was the destruction of the USS Kelvin. The Franklin in the Prime Universe hasn't been found yet. She was in the Kelvin Timeline.

Also there are Prime Universe refences through the Franklin as well, such as the Xindi Conflict, MACOs, and the Earth-Romulan War.

The USS Kelvin, as well as the later seen USS Franklin, are both Prime Universe ships. Its just that the event that started the Kelvin Timeline was the destruction of the USS Kelvin. The Franklin in the Prime Universe hasn't been found yet. She was in the Kelvin Timeline.

Also there are Prime Universe refences through the Franklin as well, such as the Xindi Conflict, MACOs, and the Earth-Romulan War.

So if the USS Kelvin is from the Prime Universe, then why don't we have access to it in STO? Or for that matter, the Jellyfish since STO should have access to every ship that is part of the Prime Universe.

As far as STO is concerned, the Kelvin Timeline is not a branching timeline. According to the Terminal Expanse mission, it states:

"In 2387, an incident created a quantum universe between our universe and this one. A Romulan ship accidentally traveled here through a singularity.

They found themselves in 2233 and later destroyed the U.S.S. Kelvin in battle. This caused their timeline to differ from ours - as a result, we now refer to it as the Kelvin Timeline."

At no time in Star Trek 2009 was the term branching timeline ever used. So according to the belief that only what is shown in a Star Trek episode or movie is canon, it is an alternate reality, but we don't know if it is a parallel universe, branching timeline, or if it is a new timeline that erased the original.

Only external information that is provided by writers of the movie in interviews indicates that the prime timeline is safe and a parallel universe is created every time that time travel occurs according to one interview. It also mention the Parallels episode view of time travel which is travelling to a parallel universe that looks like the past. This resolves all time travel paradoxes, but doesn't have the drama associated with time travel stories of saving the heroes' timeline. There was no need for Picard and his crew to travel back in time to 21st Century Montana to stop the Borg from assimilating Earth since Picard's reality had no need to be saved. The events of First Contact just resulted in Picard going from his original reality to a new reality.

So creating a new parallel universe every time that time travel happens like travelling to the 1980s to pick up some whales or traveling to a parallel universe that looks like the 1980s to pick up some whales amounts to the exact same thing except for one difference. There is absolutely no need to worry about changing the future, but travelling to an existing parallel universe that looks like the past means that they can get back to their original reality while travelling to a new parallel universe created by time travel means that they are stuck in the new parallel universe. So to get back to a parallel universe that they are familiar with means creating a new parallel universe instead of going back to their original parallel universe by travelling back in time to 'save' their reality.

Personally, I prefer travelling to parallel universes that look like the past or future since there is no paradoxes and the multiverse is not over-saturated with a ton of starkaos due to every choice I make. There might be a ton of starkaos in existing parallel universes, but I did not create them through my choices. There is also the benefit that there is the Many Worlds Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics while there is no similar theory that deals with time travel. Travelling to the future is obviously possible through time dilation, but it would be easier to create some form of suspended animation than it would be to travel lightyears away at almost the speed of light just so someone can arrive hundreds of years in the future.

So if the USS Kelvin is from the Prime Universe, then why don't we have access to it in STO? Or for that matter, the Jellyfish since STO should have access to every ship that is part of the Prime Universe.

Why? Because Cryptic decided to go for the hero ship when they made the Kelvin stuff. If we get a future Kelvin Box, I can see the Kelvin being made available. But which would have been a bigger draw? A ship we only get to see once, and getting ripped apart, or the Hero ship?

So if the USS Kelvin is from the Prime Universe, then why don't we have access to it in STO? Or for that matter, the Jellyfish since STO should have access to every ship that is part of the Prime Universe.

Why? Because Cryptic decided to go for the hero ship when they made the Kelvin stuff. If we get a future Kelvin Box, I can see the Kelvin being made available. But which would have been a bigger draw? A ship we only get to see once, and getting ripped apart, or the Hero ship?

They could have easily added the Kelvin ship as a Secondary Ship, but the main reason why it wasn't added for that Lockbox is that it is from the Prime Universe and not the Kelvin Timeline. The USS Kelvin has one point of interest. It is the only dual nacelle ship that has a vertical layout rather than a horizontal layout. So it makes sense for the USS Kelvin and Jellyfish to be available in STO especially since the Jellyfish is mentioned in the Path to 2409.

So it makes sense for the USS Kelvin and Jellyfish to be available in STO especially since the Jellyfish is mentioned in the Path to 2409.

And it may be made available if we have a second Kelvin Timeline Box.
You're ignoring one fact here. Anything from the Kelvin Timeline MOVIES, including ship designs, are owned by Paramount. While in universe the Kelvin is a Prime Universe design due to existing before the branching point, out of universe she's owned by Paramount and not CBS. Perhaps if and when another Kelvin Timeline movie comes out we'll get another Kelvin Box with some more goodies, maybe even some stuff added in from Beyond. Until then... all we got... is what we have been given in the first Kelvin Box.

The alternate universe issue can be explained lots of ways. My personal favorite is that a temporal event creates chronitons and anti-chronitons which ripple out in both directions from the event, so a time shift can change not only the future, but the past as well. The neat thing about this theory is that people in the universe will be oblivious to their history having changed because there is no linear time. If an incursion happens in 2233, then its ripples have already traveled back to the dawn of creation and the people who are born will have been born with the results of the inevitable future alteration of their time.

In this manner, no matter how many times you change the past, unless you are insulated from the time stream like Annorax, you will never know it ever happened or will happen. It's just your history-future, and you know of no other way it ever could have been.

> @starkaos said:
> khan5000 wrote: »
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> Star Trek 2009 is NOT a reboot:
> https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/orci_kurtzman_why_they_do
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> "We couldn't imagine not having this movie somehow fall within some degree of continuity. We don't accept the word reboot. Reboot does not actually describe the fact that this movie would not be possible without the 10 movies that came prior to it. The very events of the movie themselves are caused by Leonard Nimoy as Mr. Spock and his story, which picks up essentially after the last movie, Star Trek 10 [Nemesis]. ... So our movie is both a prequel and a sequel. It's a sequel if you're a fan, and a prequel if you're not."
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> The only connection Star Trek 2009 has with the original continuity is Spock and Kirk's parents. I can buy the argument that it is a reboot and a sequel since it is a continuation of old Spock's story and a reboot of everyone else's, but it is not a prequel. A prequel requires Star Trek 2009's events to have an effect on TOS. Inane lines like "our movie is both a prequel and a sequel" makes me not trust anything coming from an interview.
> azrael605 wrote: »
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> > starkaos said:
> > rattler2 wrote: »
> >
> > Except there is a version of Spiderman that doesn't have Mary Jane. Honestly I felt Gwen Stacy was a bit more developed in the Amazing Spiderman movies than Mary Jane Watson was in the original trilogy.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > And there is the African American MJ from the Homecoming movie. However, Gwen Stacy was part of the Spiderman comics and it is possible that there might have been a Mary Jane if the Amazing Spiderman wasn't cancelled. Forgot who the love interest in the Amazing Spiderman was. Not sure why they couldn't integrate the Amazing Spiderman into the MCU since it didn't have the problems of Spiderman 3.
>
> There is a timeline where Gwen Stacy got the spider powers. Another where Uncle Ben did. Another where Peter died saving the city and a youngster named Miles Morales became Spider-Man (his Uncle by the way got his hand webbed to his trunk lid in Homecoming).
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> And it would be interesting to see a movie of each of these different variations. There is the Spider-man into the Spider-verse movie coming out that has Miles Morales and Gwen Stacy as Spider-man, but instead of Uncle Ben as Spider-man AFAIK, we have Spider-ham.

Not sure if the Ben Parker version is appearing, but there is an older down on his luck Peter in there. Spider-Ham is a classic though.

The alternate universe issue can be explained lots of ways. My personal favorite is that a temporal event creates chronitons and anti-chronitons which ripple out in both directions from the event, so a time shift can change not only the future, but the past as well. The neat thing about this theory is that people in the universe will be oblivious to their history having changed because there is no linear time. If an incursion happens in 2233, then its ripples have already traveled back to the dawn of creation and the people who are born will have been born with the results of the inevitable future alteration of their time.

In this manner, no matter how many times you change the past, unless you are insulated from the time stream like Annorax, you will never know it ever happened or will happen. It's just your history-future, and you know of no other way it ever could have been.

My explanation for this is that every single time travel event after 2233 is erased and replaced by new time travel events. So if someone time traveled from the 22nd Century to the 20th Century, then the events caused by it would still exist, but the events caused by travelling from the 24th Century to the 21st Century would be erased.