A humble submission, sequel trilogy
Wow, you guys have done all of this already, huh?

I came across this site in a discussion about the prequels. Someone basically asked me what I thought would have been better than what we got, so I had to put my money where my mouth is.

I thought you guys might like to see the outline I posted.

It's not a script! Though feel free to flesh it out, or even request a real script from me if you like this stuff.

What I've tried to do is reconcile a prequel storyline with the original movies - something that didn't seem a high priority for the recent movies. I *think* it ends up with a more satisfying and meaningful story arc. It ties a lot of the plot together, and even explains some of the apparent inconsistencies in the originals.

Comments, if you can wade through the slab below, are welcome.---

Mongoose’s version of the Star Wars prequel trilogy

…because I know you care.

Part 1: the original scripts

Let’s have a look at some of the original script stuff that should guide the prequels, a lot of which clearly didn’t get looked at when the movies we actually got were made. Here’s what people (mostly Obi-Wan) in the original movies say about the period of time that would become the prequel.

This is the stuff I expected to see expanded on in the prequels:

---LUKE: No, my father didn't fight in the wars. He was a navigator on aspice freighter.

BEN: That's what your uncle told you. He didn't hold with yourfather's ideals. Thought he should have stayed here and not gotteninvolved. “He didn't hold with your father's ideals. Thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved.”---

So we see that, immediately before the Clone Wars, Anakin was living on Tatooine, or was at the very least *there*, and was close enough to Owen for them to argue over idealism. There was a possibility of Anakin “staying” on Tatooine.

---BEN: He was the best star-pilot in the galaxy, and a cunning warrior.---

Note: cunning, and exceptional as a pilot. Not an over-confident idiot.

---BEN: I have something here for you. Your father wanted you to havethis when you were old enough, but your uncle wouldn't allow it. Hefeared you might follow old Obi-Wan on some damned-fool idealisticcrusade like your father did. ---

Ok, we have to accept he’s probably lying about Anakin wanting Luke to have the lightsaber (it’s not impossible that it’s true, though! See part 2 for my idea that Vader knew about Luke). We can see that Anakin followed Obi-Wan on “some damned-fool idealistic crusade”.

---BEN: […] For over a thousand generations the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic.---

Not an absolute, but I always got the impression that the Jedi were kinda like awesome Ronin dudes who wandered the universe and had adventures. Not the police.

---BEN: A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until heturned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the JediKnights. He betrayed and murdered your father. Now the Jedi are allbut extinct. Vader was seduced by the dark side of the Force.---

Note that Obi later says that this was all true, “from a certain point of view”. That is, we have no reason to think he’s lying, except to obscure Vader’s true identity.

So he helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Knights – not wander over to the Temple and kill the kiddies. I mean, they’re not Knights, the Empire didn’t really exist at that point, and he hardly had to hunt.

He was seduced by the dark side of the Force, not by the Emperor. I know that sounds a bit vague, but I think he really *could* be seduced by the dark side. See part 2.

---BEN: Well, the Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energyfield created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us.It binds the galaxy together.---

It’s not made of microbe-GODS!!!>:[

---LEIA: General Kenobi, years ago you served my father in the CloneWars.---

This says that Bail Organa was a mover and a shaker in the Clone Wars. It also shows that the Jedi did not necessarily operate for themselves under the command of other Jedi – again, I think of them as funky Ronin dudes.

---MOTTI: Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerer's ways, Lord Vader.Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjureup the stolen data tapes, or given you clairvoyance enough to find theRebel's hidden fort...---

(This is the convo on the Death Star, where the arrogant Motti gets hisself chokified for dissing Vader).

Jedi were clearly not running around in the streets in Motti’s lifetime. They weren’t the freaking police. “Ancient religion”? Sounds more like Jedi were, even before Vader, semi-mythical. Again, this goes to the bad-ass, wandering hero idea.

BEN: You father was seduced by the dark side ofthe Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I have told you was true... from a certain point of view.---

The conversion does not sound like Anakin had some moral crisis. The good side of Anakin was – as far as Obi-Wan can tell – destroyed. He’s not conflicted, he’s EVIL.

---BEN: When I first knew him, your father was already a great pilot. But I was amazed how strongly the Force was with him. I took it upon myself to train him as a Jedi. I thought that I could instruct him just as well as Yoda. I was wrong.---

“A great pilot”??? Does that mean he was good at, um, Pod Racing? Bull! And Obi-Wan took it on himself to train Anakin, not because Yoda refused, not because Qui-gon left Anakin to him in his will, but because of Obi-Wan’s own pride – that he thought he could train him as well as Yoda could have.

…and he stuffed something up.

---LUKE: There's still good in him.

BEN: I also thought he could be turned back to thegood side. It couldn't be done. He is more machine now than man. Twisted and evil.---

So Obi-Wan would need to have attempted, or argued in favour of an attempt, to turn Darth back into Anakin. “It couldn’t be done.” An attempt was made, and it failed.

---VADER: When I left you, I was but the learner; now I am the master.---

The last time Vader saw Obi-Wan before their duel on the Death Star was when they were still in a master-apprentice relationship. And Vader “left” Obi-Wan. He wasn’t left bleeding on the ground.:/

---VADER: You don't know the power of the dark side. Imust obey my master.[…]VADER: It is too late for me, son. The Emperor willshow you the true nature of the Force. He is your master now.---

See, it sounds like something in the dark side is forcing Vader to obey the Emperor. It doesn’t sound like he’s (still!) following the Emperor because of a vague promise years ago to teach him how to stop people dying. (PFF!) In fact, we see in Empire Strikes Back that Vader wants to betray the Emperor with Luke!

Part 2: how it could have happened

Please note that I’ve never read the books. I was a massive fan of the movies as a kid, but the books seemed kinda sacrilegious. So I mentally filled in the blanks, and when I heard about the prequels I had some hope that some of my imaginings would turn out right.

So I guess I was more disappointed than some…

Anyway, here are the main plot elements in 12-year-old Mongoose’s head;

How did Anakin turn: Ok this is kinda complicated. First, he already had some control over the force when Obi-Wan met him. He was young, maybe Luke’s age in New Hope, and an unbelievably good soldier, one of the best pilots in the galaxy. He, beyond Luke, had actually worked out some force stuff for himself. Basic telekinesis to push enemies, for example.

Anyway, Obi-Wan notices, laments that this guy has got to the limits of where he can go alone, and takes him on as a student.

The important thing is that Anakin had always used some dark-side powers. Obi-Wan warns him off it, tells him it can subvert his will and – most importantly – makes him vulnerable to the controlling powers of the Sith. Anakin argues, says it’s cowardice to avoid both sides of the force, just superstition that makes Jedi afraid, and that there’s no such thing as Sith. He really doesn’t believe the warnings. He’s been using the dark side without any problems.

So although Obi-Wan makes it a condition of teaching Anakin that Anakin will give up the dark side stuff, Anakin keeps practicing in secret. It some battles, we see him use his dark-side powers.

So he’s slowly getting corrupted by the dark side. He still thinks he’s powerful enough to control it, and it appears he’s right. Even Obi-Wan turns a bit of a blind eye to it, forgiving Anakin for his arguments in favour of the dark-side, because Anakin really is a good guy, and he’s hugely powerful, and Obi-wan maybe even starts to believe that the dark side can be controlled.

Anyway, Obi-Wan finally realises he’s made a mistake in being lax with Anakin, and gets jack of it. He tells Anakin that what he’s doing is too dangerous, and he has to stop or Obi-Wan will stop teaching him. Anakin leaves. (They won’t see each other again until the Death Star).

Things come to a head. There’s a hell-difficult fight - I always liked to think it was between Anakin and some other dark-side users, like-minds and maybe friends up to that point, other Jedi he encouraged to use the dark side - but they were too weak to control it, they get corrupted by some new master (the emperor), and they turn on him with a “join us or die”. He panics a bit, realises that he’s stuffed up and that the dangers are real, that he’s caused the downfall of some good people, but he’s fighting for his life against these guys. So he’s getting attacked with dark-force, and he’s using every trick he has to fight back. More dark force of his own, and he’s better than them, a lot better, and he beats them. But only barely – he’s horribly wounded. He’s also soaked in dark-force energy, and he knows he’ll have to mend his ways. He realises that the warnings are right – these guys were being coerced by an outside power through the dark side.

Brief dialogue, he turns over his lightsaber (see below), and explains that he came horribly close to losing his will to the dark side.

He’s off to be placed in medical containment, to recover. But AHA! The Emperor nabs him! The Emperor tries to convert him, now that he’s absolutely drenched in the dark-side. The Emperor knows that’s the way to do it, that’s why he sacrificed all those other sith-apprentices, knows that anger and hate are the way to get the dark-side to control him. But he’s still too strong! He’s pretty awesome, after all. So the Emperor, having him basically at his mercy, puts him in the torture chamber. He utterly ruins Anakin’s body, and when Anakin is barely conscious and at the depths of hate and desperation and agony, Anakin tries to fight back with Dark Force, and the emperor finally corrupts him…

(See? That’s what the emperor is doing with Luke in the last movie. He’s forcing Luke into a position where he either dies, or uses the dark-side out of rage and desperation, because that’s how the emperor takes over).

Anakin never makes the decision to go over to the emperor. He is, essentially, broken. It was his own arrogance and impatience with the slower, more peaceful light side that opens the door, but in the end he is compelled by the dark side.

So when the good guys show up to “rescue” Anakin, well it’s not Anakin any more, it’s Vader. And he is unstoppable.

The thing I most missed in the prequels was seeing Vader at his height, going after the entire Jedi Order and winning. That should have been the third movie right there. Vader being awesome.

The Emperor:

A senator? Pff! Let’s look at history for a better way to change a Republic into an Empire: be a General, and turn up at the capital some day with all the troops.

So Palpatine is a great General, fighting on the fringes of the Republic. At the start, Anakin is one of *his* - he’s already noticed Anakin’s power, and he’s been very carefully encouraging him, placing him in situations to encourage his anger and aggression. It actually makes sense for a soldier, and Anakin is a stupidly-cool soldier. Palpatine is a good friend of Anakin. He helps Anakin secretly train some of his new Jedi-apprentice friends in the new techniques – ie. the Dark side. These will eventually become the Sith-apprentices Anakin stops training them, and Palpatine secretly takes over.

Palpatine’s plan is to take a victorious army back in triumph, and take over. That’s how it was usually done, by the way, in human history.

His problem is the Jedi. They’ll stop him, and he knows it. He’s not a fighter, he leads from the rear. He needs one hell of a bodyguard, and that’s going to be Anakin/Vader.

So when Obi-Wan turns up a take him off for training and adventures, he’s not pleased.

By the way, he usually avoids Jedi, doesn’t like them around or in his army. When Obi-Wan is near Palpatine he senses a dark taint (it’s just silly that they never do in the movies), but he thinks it’s coming from the dark-force he’s just seen Anakin use. Otherwise Palpatine is careful to avoid close contact with Jedi. He’s too important to meet with these wandering ronin dudes. Scruffy buggers.

He only makes an exception when he realises that Anakin is helping some other more “progressive” Jedi in the Dark Side.

The kids (Luke and Leia):

I say: wouldn’t it be cool if he had some idea Luke existed? Bear with me here. He wants Luke to help him overthrow the Emperor, and he’s actually protecting him from the Emperor until he can get a chance to get Luke onside.

Vader is playing both ends. In Empire Strikes Back, whenever he’s in earshot of someone who could report to the Emperor he’s all “oh, we need to get him to the emperor”. But when he’s got Luke on his own he changes his tune – he wants to kill the emperor.

By Return of the Jedi, suddenly the emperor isn’t so trusting of his good buddy Vader. He keeps Vader on a very short leash. Maybe he got wind of Vader’s plans? Maybe he’s smacked Vader around a bit between movies, gotten a better control over him. Vader does seem unusually cowed a fair bit in the last movie when he talks about the emperor.

So what’d need to happen to set all of that up would be, first, Anakin knows that Padme is pregnant. Then, later, when it looks like he might die, after his fight with the baddies, but before the emperor gets him, he hands his lightsaber over to someone, to give to the child. See, Anakin has realised he’s stuffed up, and he’s talking about not being a Jedi any more, after/if he gets better.

Ok, so later, we’ve got Vader smacking things up and killing Jedi. The Emperor asks him about Padme and child, but Vader lies! He says the child and mother died.

See, Vader wants Luke to grow up so that, together, they’ll be enough to beat the emperor. Obi-wan discovers that Vader knows about Luke but isn’t coming after him, even though the emperor would obviously want him to. He sees this as a sign that Vader has some good in him and can be turned, and convinces some of the other Jedi to try to convert Vader back, while Obi-Wan takes the kid to Owen. This is the attempt to turn Vader back to the light side which Obi-Wan talks about in New Hope. It fails, and when, during the attempt, they say they know about Vader protecting Luke and Padme, Vader answers that he needs Luke to beat the Emperor and take over himself – not because he’s “good”. Then he kills everyone, so the only people who know the Luke plan is Vader and the audience.

…and of course you’ll see that he really *is* conflicted, and his insistence that he needs Luke to beat the emperor is partly justification.

So that’s why Obi-Wan keeps Luke with Owen – he *knows* that Vader knows about the kid, but that for some reason Vader isn’t acting on it. Vader doesn’t realise that Obi-Wan is still around, though, so Obi-Wan keeps his head down. If he tries to intervene and bugger off with the kid, Vader might realise Obi-Wan is still in the picture and be forced to nab Luke too early for everyone’s plans.

Owen doesn’t want Obi-Wan hanging around either, because he’s worried Vader will get wind of it and come after them. That’s also why he’s so overprotective of Luke. He’s hoping Vader is content to leave Luke along, and doesn’t want to push it.

Of course, then some idiot storm-troopers go and mess things up, and Obi-Wan, who was always intending to train Luke, has to take the chance and go. The rest is history.

Vader, of course, doesn’t realise it’s Luke until after the Battle of Yavin – note that he never actually sees Luke in New Hope, except maybe in the distance after he’s killed Obi-Wan, and is probably a bit distracted.

About Leia: Vader doesn’t know about her. In fact in the final movie, he says that Obi-Wan was wise to hide her – not wide to hide *them*, just her. This fits in nicely with the possibility he knew about Luke all along.

Leia would only need to be hinted at in the 3rd movie, too – Owen could take “the boy”, hinting *but not stating* that there was a girl, too. Well ok, maybe admit there is another one, but do not say her name!

If you know that Luke and Leia are twins by the time Empire Strikes Back rolls around, then their kiss is totally incest! Gotta save that bombshell for the last movie.

She goes into hidingexile with her mum, and is adopted by Organa when Padme dies.

Padme:I’m thinking that it’d be cool if Padme was in on the attempt to turn Vader, though I think an accidental death might be the way to go there – don’t want to push Vader’s evil-ness too far, and it’d be good if the good Jedi stuffed something up, leaving it to poor, brave Padme to give the ultimate sacrifice. They make the attempt some time after Obi-Wan has left with Luke, after Vader has been chomping through the remaining Jedi and they decide that turning him, as Obi-wan and Padme have been suggesting, is their only chance to beat him. They get the best of what’s left, along with Padme, and go after Vader – and they all die. It’s this period of preparation that Leia spent with her mother, and remembers in the final movie.

Yoda: no Yoda! Yoda should be this awesome wise guy that people talk about, but no-one sees. It’s important that you don’t know it’s him when you first see him in Empire Strikes Back!

Again, Jedi should be a loose group, funky wandering hero Ronin guys, not a damn police force. Not seeing Yoda, only hearing that he’s somewhere else, should be fine in that kind of setting.

I guess I could be convinced otherwise on Yoda, but… it’d have to be a loud argument.

Vader’s Fighting Style:

Jedi flips and stuff are cool. Vader doesn’t do that shit, though. Why?

He’s the Jedi equivalent of a tank. He’s just this unstoppable force, menacing. Have Jedi jump-flip at him – he’ll use the force to pluck them out of the air, smack ‘em on the ground, and stick ‘em with a lightsaber. They get distracted, even for a moment? Choke you, biatch. They quickly learn that you don’t leap near Vader, you go careful and keep your Force-defences going – lightsabers only. That’s how Obi-Wan fights Vader in New Hope, too. Careful, concentrating. It adds an element to that fight – there’s a lot going on that you can’t see.

Vader doesn’t need showy lightening ala emperor – he just methodically stomps anything that comes at him. In Empire strikes Back, he just soaks up Han’s blaster fire – no wussy deflection, he just sucks it up! Better yet, HE TAKES A LIGHTSABER HIT FROM LUKE WITH BARELY AN “OUCH”! It just boings right off.

So, I like Mace Windu. He’s a good character. Imagine, Vader has nailed the other Jedi, it’s just Mace and him. Mace, being awesome, manages to hit Vader full on, just like Luke does in Empire: ouch, but Vader doesn’t stop. In that moment of OMGWTF, Vader nails him. That’d be a cool death – he should have beat Vader, but it was VADER, so he still lost.

Jedi: were awesome, semi-mythical Ronin dudes who turned up to right wrongs and slay baddies. Not a council in the capital, not the cops, but wandering heroes.

The Clone Wars: the one bit I had no idea about. Could be a lot of things. What we got was unnecessarily convoluted, IMO. Less on the cunning political plots, more with the characters and action, I say!

Organa: has to be cool, since Obi-Wan (and, almost certainly, Anakin) worked for him in the Clone Wars. Most important: his adopted daughter (Leia) has to be a Princess! So he’s got to be at least a Prince or something. And Alderaan “has no weapons” – so Organa and the Jedi were doing something cunning together in the wars.

Anakin’s character: think Han Solo at extremes. Completely unimpressed by authority, confident, smooth. Arrogant, though, and power-hungry. Not because he’s got some lame adolescent political theory, but because he knows he’s good and can be trusted – he has faith in himself.

Part 3, a brief timeline:

Ep1: Happy adventures, war on the rim. Obi-Wan meets Anakin, they become good friends, Anakin learns force stuff, learns about the Jedi (leaving specifics of the “Force” to the original 3, because no-one wants to hear it all twice). Helps Padme in some heroic adventure, gets a kissy. Ends with the start of the Clone Wars.

Ep2: The Clone Wars in progress/towards the end. Develop Anakin’s dalliance with Dark side, he marries Padme, who gets preggers. Big fight between Anakin and the dark side, but then the Emperor cheats and nabs him while weak. End with Anakin replaced by Vader, who then kills most of the dudes who came to rescue him.

Ep3: Vader triumphant. The rise of the Empire. Luke gets hidden and discussed. Padme dies, sad because her guy is a big evil bastard – but dies *trying to get him back* because she’s not some piss-weak woman who dies of a broken heart, is she? Ends with the last of the Jedi resistance dying while trying to bring Vader back.

Cue: A New Hope!(See, on the surface the “hope” is still the Alliance’s chance to beat the Deathstar, but on a larger scale the “hope” is now actually LUKE, because he’s everyone’s hope, the Jedi’s, the Alliance’s, Vader’s, the Emperor’s, EVERYONE’S).

Wow, great post. I really liked a lot of the ideas you had. A lot of people tend to fall into traps when trying to rewrite the PT by using 90% of the same characters and ideas. This take at is is much better thought out and introduces a lot of ideas that still hold a lot of connection to the original movies.

The part about Yoda not being in the movie at all: brilliant. Why can no one else conceive of this. I would also hold that the whole notion of the Sith and the master/apprentice thing should not be present (you didn't mention that it was, but I just want to make sure). I also really like the idea that the Jedi are sort of underground. Motti and Tarkin's statements in ANH make no sense based on the universe we see presented in the PT.

Interests:Defending the forces of evil from the whiney forces of good; spreading awareness about violence and its ability to solve all problems - from the very smallest to the very stupid…est…; sticking up for the little guy, as long as the little guy shares my point of view or is willing to convert in exchange for some ‘sticking up for’; and of course, plotting world domination and putting and end to reality tv once and for all. <br /><br />Oh, and beautiful women.

Country:United States

Posted 11 May 2006 - 08:11 PM

Wow, I’d have never come up with some shit like that. Good show, man! Good show.

Obviously there's a big difference between having a story and actually fitting that into dialogue and a script that works. I'm not sure that I'm capable of it - I do write some fiction, and am well aware of how characters sometimes refuse to do what you want them to. I might give it a go, though.

I guess the main point about the conversion is this: when the Emperor tries to turn Luke in RotJ, he doesn't try to rationalise with him, he tries to get Luke to use the dark side of the force, to use his anger and hate. It seems much more - I guess the word is satisfying - much more satisfying if a Sith Master can exploit the taint of the Dark Side in a good Jedi, and essentially take him over, rather than, um, TRICK him into doing evil stuff. That's what being a Sith Master *is* - the ability to dominate other Jedi through the dark side.

The nice thing is, Obi-Wan's warnings and discussion with Anakin could easily explain this process to the audience, and it fits perfectly into what actually happens in RotJ.

...and that does maintain the idea of good intentions leading to evil - the Jedi has to be tempted to use the dark side to do GOOD, but will ultimately be corrupted by that. It makes the same sort of political message I think Lucas was trying to make, but in a much more subtle way (eg, the modern temptation to use torture to achieve a good outcome).

Oh, and my underlying philosophy here is that the movies, the 6 of them, are ABOUT Anakin Skywalker, his rise and fall. He's the only character who's alive in all the movies, with the possible exception of R2 and Threepio (though, frankly, I found the cramming of every possible reference from the originals into the new movies was downright twee. Even if they are in the new movies, they really could be seen as (largely passive) witnesses, sorta like the audience themselves, but on-screen).

Really, I don't want Anakin to be a feeble angsty teenager. I want him, absolutely any time you see him on screen or read his name in the script, to be Anakin MUTHAFARKIN SKYWALKER!!! (yeah!).

I haven't read the entire thing yet... but damn! That was honestly one of the best conceived and fleshed out plots and stories I've seen. It could have worked a hundred times better than anything George has ever come up with.

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one that was disgusted and horrified by Luca$$' prequel trilogy. I remember sitting there watching TPM and thinking "I waited 15 years for THIS CRAP!?" I had hopes that Eps 2 and 3 would be better, but like many of you, I was severely let down.

The backstory that I had in my head was much better than anything Luca$$ ever came up with, and is somewhat similar to what has been posted here. Several times I have considered actually putting my version down on paper, but various things have prevented me from doing so.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I feel better knowing that I'm not the only one whose childhood was destroyed by Luca$$ and his greed.

Good stuff. Some questions: How do you intend to resolve the story of the '1,000 generations' business (20,000 years)?

Some thoughts. I always saw the Clone Wars as being something like this-

1. Jedi can't be beat. They are -that- good. The Empire has tried, for a long time.
2. Sith decide that it would be a good idea if the Empire stopped trying. On a continued
breathing level. Jedi got upset, stomped the Sith (or 'a' Sith who became the
namesake).
3. Sith survivors escape due to corrupt political alliances. Decide to help the Empire
and teach those naughty Jedi a lesson they won't soon forget.
4. Midichlorians are found to be the key to successful Cloning. Jedi find themselves
fighting an enemy just like them. Start to lose. One innocuous guy helps out by
supplying battle droids (which should me more like Terminators and less like Laurel and
Hardy).
5. Things get worse as clones also start to appear behind the lines as Jedi and Leadership
type persons and the whole Republic fragments into civil war based on these 'Sixth Day'
type rendition/replacement efforts. Somewhere in this we learn that a 'Sith' is
involved as a family name the Jedi recognize.
6. It's revealed that there are TWO Sith operating in this when the outside man (working
for the Empire) gets lucky and goes for a deep penetration raid that eventually ends up
overrunning the Republic. And on Coruscant, as the terms for surrender are about to be
negotiated, the other (Sidious/Palpatine) steps out to meet and greet. Only to turn on
both his Master and the Jedi by commanding the Clones -and- Droids to attack everyone.
7. At this point, it is revealed that Anakin, who has had a dark personality to begin with
but is coming along nicely with a wife and a purpose in life. Only to find out, in the
end, he is a clone too. And has been secretly aiding and abetting Sidious even though
he doesn't always remember being there (one of those psychodrama things where "And
there he was cloaked in shadows (Darth Vader) and I just...went blank." _Because you
were him, nutjob._ This allows us to see 'Darth Vader' much earlier in the story.
8. Anakin throws off his evilness to save the day from Sidious' massive Force attacks
(pumping up the midis has made him a serious Force power) but dies_ in the process.
Only to be reincarnated by Sidious after telling Obiwan to save Padme` and the brats.
9. Thus the setup for the reason why Luke (and the Light Side) go to such incredible
lengths to save the man who is a zombie inside a dead shell. Anakin did everything
right. And simply had choice taken away from him.

One other thing. I don't remember Obiwan giving all that extra stuff about trying to save Anakin in ROTJ. I only remember the "He's more machine than man now, twisted and evil." response to Luke's insistence that there is good inside Vader.

If this is SE crap, please don't use it. The SURPRISE should be that Anakin is Darth Vader. And everyone should vigorously aid in sticking their thumbs in Lucas' eye for screwing up the OT as much if not more than the PT.

Good stuff. Some questions: How do you intend to resolve the story of the '1,000 generations' business (20,000 years)?

Some thoughts. I always saw the Clone Wars as being something like this-

1. Jedi can't be beat. They are -that- good. The Empire has tried, for a long time.
2. Sith decide that it would be a good idea if the Empire stopped trying. On a continued
breathing level. Jedi got upset, stomped the Sith (or 'a' Sith who became the
namesake).
3. Sith survivors escape due to corrupt political alliances. Decide to help the Empire
and teach those naughty Jedi a lesson they won't soon forget.
4. Midichlorians are found to be the key to successful Cloning. Jedi find themselves
fighting an enemy just like them. Start to lose. One innocuous guy helps out by
supplying battle droids (which should me more like Terminators and less like Laurel and
Hardy).
5. Things get worse as clones also start to appear behind the lines as Jedi and Leadership
type persons and the whole Republic fragments into civil war based on these 'Sixth Day'
type rendition/replacement efforts. Somewhere in this we learn that a 'Sith' is
involved as a family name the Jedi recognize.
6. It's revealed that there are TWO Sith operating in this when the outside man (working
for the Empire) gets lucky and goes for a deep penetration raid that eventually ends up
overrunning the Republic. And on Coruscant, as the terms for surrender are about to be
negotiated, the other (Sidious/Palpatine) steps out to meet and greet. Only to turn on
both his Master and the Jedi by commanding the Clones -and- Droids to attack everyone.
7. At this point, it is revealed that Anakin, who has had a dark personality to begin with
but is coming along nicely with a wife and a purpose in life. Only to find out, in the
end, he is a clone too. And has been secretly aiding and abetting Sidious even though
he doesn't always remember being there (one of those psychodrama things where "And
there he was cloaked in shadows (Darth Vader) and I just...went blank." _Because you
were him, nutjob._ This allows us to see 'Darth Vader' much earlier in the story.
8. Anakin throws off his evilness to save the day from Sidious' massive Force attacks
(pumping up the midis has made him a serious Force power) but dies_ in the process.
Only to be reincarnated by Sidious after telling Obiwan to save Padme` and the brats.
9. Thus the setup for the reason why Luke (and the Light Side) go to such incredible
lengths to save the man who is a zombie inside a dead shell. Anakin did everything
right. And simply had choice taken away from him.

One other thing. I don't remember Obiwan giving all that extra stuff about trying to save Anakin in ROTJ. I only remember the "He's more machine than man now, twisted and evil." response to Luke's insistence that there is good inside Vader.

If this is SE crap, please don't use it. The SURPRISE should be that Anakin is Darth Vader. And everyone should vigorously aid in sticking their thumbs in Lucas' eye for screwing up the OT as much if not more than the PT.

Saberist

Saberist - You lost me at Midicholorians. I think every prequel Lucas idea should be scrapped. BTW, I think there is already a perfectly good reason why Luke tries to turn Vader back to the light-side, or maybe I just misunderstood you.

I just read the humbe submission and thought it was well thought out and wondered why no one has ever thought of trying to do a fan remake of the prequels and getting it done the right way. I think that everyone who grew up with the original trilogy was completely disappointed with George's attempt at the prequels. As an artist it would be a great idea to take a look at creating the prequels as a CGI version. I would hate to think that what we have now will be a part of Star Wars Lore.

Does anyone else agree?

If yes or no I will start a new thread to find out how good or bad an idea this just might be.

...
Oh, and my underlying philosophy here is that the movies, the 6 of them, are ABOUT Anakin Skywalker, his rise and fall. He's the only character who's alive in all the movies, with the possible exception of R2 and Threepio (though, frankly, I found the cramming of every possible reference from the originals into the new movies was downright twee. Even if they are in the new movies, they really could be seen as (largely passive) witnesses, sorta like the audience themselves, but on-screen).
...

Even as early as 1986 I remember Lucas talking about this japanese saga/movie that was told not through the eyes of the main character, but through the eyes of it's servant, and how this inspired him to have R2 and 3PO as the storytellers in Star Wars. Of course, this was Lucas BS as always, but ever since that day I could not help it: everytime I watched the originals I always imagined this was a story that happened .. a long,long time ago, and it was told to us by (a very old )3PO and R2.

I always hopped, up to the last moment, that the prequels will have this robotic-duo as the marginally involved characters who would witness the events leading Anakin to becoming Vader. I know it's a bit of a stretch to imagine R2 having known young Anakin, but still.
(and don't get me started on having C3PO being built by Anakin .. OOMG!!)

I know that you believe you understood what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you read is not what I meant.

Yeah 3P0 and R2 being the witnesses of these events was actually a good idea, but he didn't make any effort to do it well. And while he was dropping lots of ideas in favour of other ones, he could well have dropped that. The problem with the prequels is they focused too much on trying to tie events to the original series. So in the end they came off like fan fiction.

"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).