Nikolaos, I'm not sure where you are, but at least in North America, the norm is for a bachelor's degree (4-5 years, however long it takes) and then to seminary. I believe Holy Cross is four years for the M.Div?

It's standard practice for Orthodox priests in North America to be both university AND seminary-educated. Some bishops will allow exceptions to that standard practice - for SEMINARY at least, but it's on a case-by-case basis, and up to the discretion of the bishop, and the Holy Synod he belongs to might have to weigh in on the decision, as well.

I know someone who immigrated to the US from a Orthodoxy country in his late teens. He never took any university courses for his bachelor's degree. He is now in his early 30s, married with a family. He is going through his diocese's diaconal vocations program to become a deacon, but before he can go to seminary he has to get his bachelor's degree, per our bishop.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with serving Christ's Church as a layman! You could chant, serve in the altar (if your parish has adult altar servers, some don't), teach the youth and/or adults, etc.

There is plenty to do in the Church! And it's wrong thinking to think the only way a man can serve the Church is as clergy!

To echo what arimethea said, it will vary, sometimes even within jurisdictions. For example, the Antiochian priest that chrismated me had to have a secular job to help support his family. One of the local Antiochian priests that I know here, however, does just fine in pay (he's been a priest 30+ years and has a decent sized parish, which I suppose might play a part).

To become a Greek orthodox priest, i have found out (correct me if I'm wrong,please) you need to have a 4yr degree and then go to a seminary school for another 3-4 years, WOW !

I'm not a young-en anymore, never graduated from college. Does that mean I'm out of luck?

Is there another way to become a priest? I relay wanted to be a priest and this came about recently due to an incident that happened that brought me back to my religion from a long time away

Maybe it would be helpful for you & us to understand why you want to become a priest? The seminaries and education have an important role to play in preparing priests. Useful knowledge and also character assement while seminarians are living in the seminary.

If you have recently returned to active participation in the church you could start by offering to get more involved: volunteer for anything available. This will help you to understand more about the church. Start reading the GOARCH web site. It is fantastic and yo will learn more about your faith. Go to any retreats or seminars or talks available.Most important: go to church reguialy , make some good Greek orthodox Christians friends in your parish and go to communion.

To become a Greek orthodox priest, i have found out (correct me if I'm wrong,please) you need to have a 4yr degree and then go to a seminary school for another 3-4 years, WOW !

I'm not a young-en anymore, never graduated from college. Does that mean I'm out of luck?

Is there another way to become a priest? I relay wanted to be a priest and this came about recently due to an incident that happened that brought me back to my religion from a long time away

Maybe it would be helpful for you & us to understand why you want to become a priest? The seminaries and education have an important role to play in preparing priests. Useful knowledge and also character assement while seminarians are living in the seminary.

If you have recently returned to active participation in the church you could start by offering to get more involved: volunteer for anything available. This will help you to understand more about the church. Start reading the GOARCH web site. It is fantastic and yo will learn more about your faith. Go to any retreats or seminars or talks available.Most important: go to church reguialy , make some good Greek orthodox Christians friends in your parish and go to communion.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with serving Christ's Church as a layman! You could chant, serve in the altar (if your parish has adult altar servers, some don't), teach the youth and/or adults, etc.

There is plenty to do in the Church! And it's wrong thinking to think the only way a man can serve the Church is as clergy!

If you can put these 2 things together, that would be PERFECT, in terms of a beginning.

I also wanted to add to the "list" that you also are required to learn Byzantine Music (while it is a requirement there are definitely guys who "skate by" that rec.

I am starting to talk to him about things. I would not if he did not have seminary training.

Not meaning to pick on you in particular Gamliel, but... this is everything that is wrong with the "ask your priest" bs on this site. Actually, it gets at a lot that is wrong with Orthodoxy period.

what's so wrong about it?

Someone pm'd me about this, and this is what I said to them, which I think basically sums up what I was thinking...

Likewise with priests, the specific thing that set me off was the part about how Gamliel wouldn't have gone/go to his priest if he had not gone to seminary. To me that's just silly. Don't get me wrong, I am all for priests getting an education, but just because someone didn't go to seminary that doesn't mean they're theologically or pastorally illiterate. Many saints through the centuries had fine educations, sometimes at the best schools in the known world, but other priests didn't, and a lack of education didn't make them worthless when it came to advice (one story that comes to mind is when someone asked the desert father Arsenius: "how is it that you with such a good Latin and Greek education, ask this peasant about your thoughts?" and Arsenius replied "I have indeed been taught Latin and Greek, but I do not know even the alphabet of this peasant")

My priest has been around long enough that I am starting to talk to him about things. I would not if he did not have seminary training. Want to be a priest? Go to seminary.

Many priests I know never went to seminary at all. Believe or not, I've found that some of them are far better priests than those who have gone to seminary.

In Christ,Andrew

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"I will pour out my prayer unto the Lord, and to Him will I proclaim my grief; for with evils my soul is filled, and my life unto hades hath drawn nigh, and like Jonah I will pray: From corruption raise me up, O God." -Ode VI, Irmos of the Supplicatory Canon to the Theotokos

To become a Greek orthodox priest, i have found out (correct me if I'm wrong,please) you need to have a 4yr degree and then go to a seminary school for another 3-4 years, WOW !

I'm not a young-en anymore, never graduated from college. Does that mean I'm out of luck?

Is there another way to become a priest?

In the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, no. In Greece, yes. If you've been away from the Church for a long time, it's probably best to serve as a normal layman for several years before even considering ordination to the clergy.

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But for I am a man not textueel I wol noght telle of textes neuer a deel. (Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale, 1.131)

To become a Greek orthodox priest, i have found out (correct me if I'm wrong,please) you need to have a 4yr degree and then go to a seminary school for another 3-4 years, WOW !

I'm not a young-en anymore, never graduated from college. Does that mean I'm out of luck?

Is there another way to become a priest?

If the answer is a solid definite NO u r out of luck there is no way u can do it without a degree~~then is there another way possible i can work in the field serving god?

I relay wanted to be a priest and this came about recently due to an incident that happened that brought me back to my religion from a long time away

Try to find a subject that interests you, or is related to our profession. As far as I heard, any Bachelor's degree counts. Just do the SPD (Special Program for the Diaconate) at Holy Cross in Brookline. You will be assigned a mentor, and be prepared for service as a deacon. This should be good preparation for you.P.S. The Church has a shortage of deacons. If you work and serve as a deacon, it will be OK Talk to your spiritual father, he could give you better advice.

I am somewhat offended by the comment that someone wouldn't speak with their priest had he not had a seminary education. I know a very fine, upstanding, caring, and intelligent priest who does not have a seminary education. I don't think he even has a bachelor's degree, but that doesn't matter to me. He was ordained very late in life (somewhere between 60 and 70, I don't recall where). He is, without a doubt, one of the people I most respect and look up to.

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I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice. Can you guess what it is?

This bothers me a bit somewhat. So with all the requirments it takes to be priest, how come there isn't any to be a monk?

Dumb question I'm sure.

Do you think monasteries will take just anyone? They have their requirements, too!

Amen. Standard practice is to have a waiting period just to become a novice, let alone the multiple years, requirements, confessions, and solemn promises that go into the making of a no-turning-back monk.

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"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

The Church has a shortage of deacons. If you work and serve as a deacon, it will be OK

In my area, the Greek Archdiocese has a severe shortage of deacons! When Palm Sunday comes, the OCA deacons aren't to be found in the parishes they serve, as the Greek parishes have borrowed them all, and pay handsomely, too!

The Church has a shortage of deacons. If you work and serve as a deacon, it will be OK

In my area, the Greek Archdiocese has a severe shortage of deacons! When Palm Sunday comes, the OCA deacons aren't to be found in the parishes they serve, as the Greek parishes have borrowed them all, and pay handsomely, too!

In the Greek Archdiocese, we've had 2-3 generations of young men who wanted to serve the Church and were never 'left' as deacons because there was too great a need for priests. Now the permanent deaconate program (fueled by men who will keep their secular jobs), in its 2nd go around, seeks to fill that void, and seems to be gaining momentum.

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"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

The priest filling in for the parish priest at the Greek Orthodox Cathedral here in Wellington told us that he was not an educated man. I was very surprised to hear that. I asked about seminaries and he said that now they are setting them up in Greece. I was surprised to hear it wasn't like the Roman Catholic system.

Do seminarians live in Orthodox seminaries the way Roman Catholic seminarians do, or do they just attend classes during the day like a university? Having them live together would work with RC seminarians, who are celibate, but Orthodox seminarians would most likely have a wife and possibly children, who would probably not want to live in a seminary.

The priest filling in for the parish priest at the Greek Orthodox Cathedral here in Wellington told us that he was not an educated man. I was very surprised to hear that. I asked about seminaries and he said that now they are setting them up in Greece. I was surprised to hear it wasn't like the Roman Catholic system.

Do seminarians live in Orthodox seminaries the way Roman Catholic seminarians do, or do they just attend classes during the day like a university? Having them live together would work with RC seminarians, who are celibate, but Orthodox seminarians would most likely have a wife and possibly children, who would probably not want to live in a seminary.

it's kind of "best of both worlds" actually. The single guys will live in a dorm, as well as young ladies who study theology. At Hellenic College/Holy Cross which is the Greek Archdiocese school, there is a whole undergrad program that young men or women can be a part of and have a "normal" college experience.

there is also married student housing, for seminarians who are married. that's on a different part of campus.

that's the fyi at HC/HC. each seminary kind of has its own arrangements.

The priest filling in for the parish priest at the Greek Orthodox Cathedral here in Wellington told us that he was not an educated man. I was very surprised to hear that. I asked about seminaries and he said that now they are setting them up in Greece. I was surprised to hear it wasn't like the Roman Catholic system.

Greece has a 3-tiered system: religious high schools, trade schools (like Community College), and Theological Schools (attached to Universities of Athens and Thessaloniki). Essentially, the system developed to account for (a) the sheer number of priests needed, and (b) that the need dictates that not every priest can receive full training. Graduates of the 1st two levels go out to serve as village priests, but do not have the blessing to preach or hear confessions; only the theological school graduates have those blessings.

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"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

I am starting to talk to him about things. I would not if he did not have seminary training.

Not meaning to pick on you in particular Gamliel, but... this is everything that is wrong with the "ask your priest" bs on this site. Actually, it gets at a lot that is wrong with Orthodoxy period.

what's so wrong about it?

Someone pm'd me about this, and this is what I said to them, which I think basically sums up what I was thinking...

Likewise with priests, the specific thing that set me off was the part about how Gamliel wouldn't have gone/go to his priest if he had not gone to seminary. To me that's just silly. Don't get me wrong, I am all for priests getting an education, but just because someone didn't go to seminary that doesn't mean they're theologically or pastorally illiterate. Many saints through the centuries had fine educations, sometimes at the best schools in the known world, but other priests didn't, and a lack of education didn't make them worthless when it came to advice (one story that comes to mind is when someone asked the desert father Arsenius: "how is it that you with such a good Latin and Greek education, ask this peasant about your thoughts?" and Arsenius replied "I have indeed been taught Latin and Greek, but I do not know even the alphabet of this peasant")

Greece has a 3-tiered system: religious high schools, trade schools (like Community College), and Theological Schools (attached to Universities of Athens and Thessaloniki). Essentially, the system developed to account for (a) the sheer number of priests needed, and (b) that the need dictates that not every priest can receive full training. Graduates of the 1st two levels go out to serve as village priests, but do not have the blessing to preach or hear confessions; only the theological school graduates have those blessings.

Father, do village priests in Greece not hear confessions and preach? Also, if a priest has no blessing to hear confessions and absolve (not to mention give spiritual advice) how do the villagers receive the sacraments, especially in an emergency?

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Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding. Prov. 23:23.

I am starting to talk to him about things. I would not if he did not have seminary training.

Not meaning to pick on you in particular Gamliel, but... this is everything that is wrong with the "ask your priest" bs on this site. Actually, it gets at a lot that is wrong with Orthodoxy period.

what's so wrong about it?

Someone pm'd me about this, and this is what I said to them, which I think basically sums up what I was thinking...

Likewise with priests, the specific thing that set me off was the part about how Gamliel wouldn't have gone/go to his priest if he had not gone to seminary. To me that's just silly. Don't get me wrong, I am all for priests getting an education, but just because someone didn't go to seminary that doesn't mean they're theologically or pastorally illiterate. Many saints through the centuries had fine educations, sometimes at the best schools in the known world, but other priests didn't, and a lack of education didn't make them worthless when it came to advice (one story that comes to mind is when someone asked the desert father Arsenius: "how is it that you with such a good Latin and Greek education, ask this peasant about your thoughts?" and Arsenius replied "I have indeed been taught Latin and Greek, but I do not know even the alphabet of this peasant")

What a profound critique

Well, the subject material and context clearly merited PhD dissertation level analysis, so I tried to reach that level as close as I could.

I am starting to talk to him about things. I would not if he did not have seminary training.

Not meaning to pick on you in particular Gamliel, but... this is everything that is wrong with the "ask your priest" bs on this site. Actually, it gets at a lot that is wrong with Orthodoxy period.

what's so wrong about it?

Someone pm'd me about this, and this is what I said to them, which I think basically sums up what I was thinking...

Likewise with priests, the specific thing that set me off was the part about how Gamliel wouldn't have gone/go to his priest if he had not gone to seminary. To me that's just silly. Don't get me wrong, I am all for priests getting an education, but just because someone didn't go to seminary that doesn't mean they're theologically or pastorally illiterate. Many saints through the centuries had fine educations, sometimes at the best schools in the known world, but other priests didn't, and a lack of education didn't make them worthless when it came to advice (one story that comes to mind is when someone asked the desert father Arsenius: "how is it that you with such a good Latin and Greek education, ask this peasant about your thoughts?" and Arsenius replied "I have indeed been taught Latin and Greek, but I do not know even the alphabet of this peasant")

What a profound critique

Well, the subject material and context clearly merited PhD dissertation level analysis, so I tried to reach that level as close as I could.

Your comment just doesn't make sense as a critique of this site, Orthodoxy or anything really. One person's predisposition towards who they might trust for a particlur type of advice isn't relevant nor does it indict Orthodoxy, unless I'm missing something. But in the context of a message board where people seek advice, someone saying they feel most comfortable seeking it out from a priest with certain qualifications seems reasonable, but in any event it just looks to me like you were angling for a reason to make a snarky comment. Coming from someone who has over 11k posts on this site and finds so much wrong with Orthodoxy I'm a little confused...and your sarcastic response is just more passive-aggressive than effective.

To be clear, I enjoy your presence generally but the snarkniness and "hey, look at me sometimes I'm Orthodox but this week I'm not because I'm smarter than everyone again and I'm here to sit in judgment but only passively because I'm not really sure of myself and don't want to be moderated or have my posting privileges revoked because even though I'm not Orthodox I spend a ton of time here" schtick gets old.

And I generally agree that an education (or lack thereof) doesn't have much relevance to whether someone is capabale of doling out spiritual wisdom, but in many circumstances it makes complete sense that someone have an education for pastoral reasons or so the person (priest) can dialogue regarding, say Orthodo/Catholic schism.

So, your general point has some merit, but why it was couched as a critique of that poster, this site or Orthodoxy is a mystery.

and please pardon me for being a butthead, as I'm laboring under the effects of sleep deprivation at the moment as i just became a father and started a new job. forgive me.

Congratulations! Many years to you and your family, in health and God's blessings.

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"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

Father, do village priests in Greece not hear confessions and preach? Also, if a priest has no blessing to hear confessions and absolve (not to mention give spiritual advice) how do the villagers receive the sacraments, especially in an emergency?

Those, whether in villages or in cities, who do not have the blessing of their hierarch (which is usually reserved for the theological school grads) to preach or hear confessions cannot do so. Because a great number of the Greek clergy do not have the blessing to hear confessions and preach, there is a special office of the "Ierokyrix" (or "Ierokyrikas" - Hiero-preacher), who is an itinerant priest who travels giving sermons and hearing confessions. The hierarchs are often also available to hear confessions (and they always preach, as a rule). I've heard of a case or two where dispensation is given for an otherwise not-privileged-to-hear-confession priest to hear a deathbed confession, but this seems rare.

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"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

Try to find a subject that interests you, or is related to our profession. As far as I heard, any Bachelor's degree counts. Just do the SPD (Special Program for the Diaconate) at Holy Cross in Brookline. You will be assigned a mentor, and be prepared for service as a deacon. This should be good preparation for you.P.S. The Church has a shortage of deacons. If you work and serve as a deacon, it will be OK Talk to your spiritual father, he could give you better advice.

One must have a Bachelor's degree first before applying to the Special Program for the Diaconate.

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But for I am a man not textueel I wol noght telle of textes neuer a deel. (Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale, 1.131)

Try to find a subject that interests you, or is related to our profession. As far as I heard, any Bachelor's degree counts. Just do the SPD (Special Program for the Diaconate) at Holy Cross in Brookline. You will be assigned a mentor, and be prepared for service as a deacon. This should be good preparation for you.P.S. The Church has a shortage of deacons. If you work and serve as a deacon, it will be OK Talk to your spiritual father, he could give you better advice.

One must have a Bachelor's degree first before applying to the Special Program for the Diaconate.

Many universities give credit for life experience and learning. Even if you haven't gone to college before, it's worth investigating to see if you can qualify for such credits. A degree may be closer than you think.

A friend of mine went through the St. Tikhon's dual degree program and became a priest.

"The 5-Year Dual Degree B.A. (Theology) / M.Div. Program is an attractive alternative to the traditional B.A. – M.Div. curriculum, designed for students at two or four-year liberal arts colleges or universities who have completed, or are completing their core liberal arts distribution requirements, and who want to enter a program of professional theological studies at St. Tikhon’s Seminary.

The dual-degree program provides opportunities for students to explore and integrate complementary interests in the liberal arts and priestly formation, and offer a unique perspective on understanding the multiple ways in which religions, societies and people interact in the sphere of theology.

The B.A./M.A. dual degree is a five-year integrated program. Students accepted will spend their first two years taking specified common courses in the Master of Divinity program and completing their baccalaureate requirements while obtaining a solid foundation in pre-theology studies. These students will then spend the third, fourth and fifth program years completing M. Div. requirements, including a summer internship between the fourth and fifth program years."