Those elected to the State Legislature this year will have to run again next year, as a means to get rid of the gerrymandered results.

Republicans are saying this overturns the will of millions of people, but in reality, this is the only way the GOP is holding on to power in states that are trending more blue. Drawing unbiased districts is the only way to have fair elections, not in having some state or federal congressional district that's about 3 miles wide and 90 miles long snake through a state to target certain voters.

I don't know if this will make the North Carolina State Legislature blue, but I suspect it will even out the representation within the state, and hopefully stop the wave of fascist-type bills and laws that have been streaming out of that body.

Those elected to the State Legislature this year will have to run again next year, as a means to get rid of the gerrymandered results.

Republicans are saying this overturns the will of millions of people, but in reality, this is the only way the GOP is holding on to power in states that are trending more blue. Drawing unbiased districts is the only way to have fair elections, not in having some state or federal congressional district that's about 3 miles wide and 90 miles long snake through a state to target certain voters.

I don't know if this will make the North Carolina State Legislature blue, but I suspect it will even out the representation within the state, and hopefully stop the wave of fascist-type bills and laws that have been streaming out of that body.

My God you're a post election dumpster fire.

240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!

Those elected to the State Legislature this year will have to run again next year, as a means to get rid of the gerrymandered results.

Republicans are saying this overturns the will of millions of people, but in reality, this is the only way the GOP is holding on to power in states that are trending more blue. Drawing unbiased districts is the only way to have fair elections, not in having some state or federal congressional district that's about 3 miles wide and 90 miles long snake through a state to target certain voters.

I don't know if this will make the North Carolina State Legislature blue, but I suspect it will even out the representation within the state, and hopefully stop the wave of fascist-type bills and laws that have been streaming out of that body.

Won't matter. They can draw it on pure party status, and still keep the majority until someone declares the GOP as a racist organization.

When the congressional districts were redrawn for this year, they will wound up with a 10-3 advantage even through the voting was D46.6/R53.3 difference.

Comment on districts redrawn in order to protect "minority-majority" districts (as is commonly done); is this not also improper boundary-drawing?

I think it is only bad when Republicans are doing it.When Democrats do the exact same thing on state legislatures that they control it is fine and dandy because they are not evil/racist/misogynistic/hunters of baby seals and haters of puppies like the Repubs!

Comment on districts redrawn in order to protect "minority-majority" districts (as is commonly done); is this not also improper boundary-drawing?

Having a minority-majority district isn't an issue. It's actually encouraged. What makes this an issue is when you prove the intent to manipulate the boundaries to give advantage to one party (which is what NC Republicans were caught with).

Maryland is an example of a truly gerrymandered state (at the federal level). Can you prove the Democrats' intent to dilute GOP voters? Pretty much every district will touch a Baltimore suburb, so how do you divvy up the seats? MD's GOP can challenge the map (especially with a GOP governor at the helm)...will it do so? Or they acknowledge that just like AR pivoted to the GOP, MD pivoted to the Democrats?

This is only one such possible way to do it, but this is really a problem that begs for an algorithmic solution. Both parties are guilty of gerrymandering, and it shouldn't be done on any level. I'd much rather trust the drawing of districts to mathematicians than politicians.

Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are

Those elected to the State Legislature this year will have to run again next year, as a means to get rid of the gerrymandered results.

Republicans are saying this overturns the will of millions of people, but in reality, this is the only way the GOP is holding on to power in states that are trending more blue. Drawing unbiased districts is the only way to have fair elections, not in having some state or federal congressional district that's about 3 miles wide and 90 miles long snake through a state to target certain voters.

I don't know if this will make the North Carolina State Legislature blue, but I suspect it will even out the representation within the state, and hopefully stop the wave of fascist-type bills and laws that have been streaming out of that body.

My God you're a post election dumpster fire.

I can't help it if you're not smart enough to start topics on your own.

This reinforces what I told Hillis in another thread prior to the election, where I predicted Trump winning with 286 EVs (and was, of course, taunted and ridiculed for daring to suggest that Clinton could lose) and stated that if Trump lost, I'd be disappointed but would go on with my life, whereas if Trump won, he'd be DEVASTATED.

And so far, it looks like this is eating him alive on a daily basis.

"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group

This reinforces what I told Hillis in another thread prior to the election, where I predicted Trump winning with 286 EVs (and was, of course, taunted and ridiculed for daring to suggest that Clinton could lose) and stated that if Trump lost, I'd be disappointed but would go on with my life, whereas if Trump won, he'd be DEVASTATED.

And so far, it looks like this is eating him alive on a daily basis.

Couldn't agree more. There seems to be a new thread bemoaning the election result on almost a daily basis.

With regards to your point about moving on if Trump lost; I think that perhaps a lot of us expected Trump to lose and were able to mentally prepare ourselves for not only that, but potential Republican losses in the House and Senate as constantly touted by the media. Democrats were convinced, properly convinced, Clinton was going to win, and they figured they would take back the Senate and cut the Republican majority in the House. Spurred on by the media, they believed all of these things and have been left in utter shock by the results.

This reinforces what I told Hillis in another thread prior to the election, where I predicted Trump winning with 286 EVs (and was, of course, taunted and ridiculed for daring to suggest that Clinton could lose) and stated that if Trump lost, I'd be disappointed but would go on with my life, whereas if Trump won, he'd be DEVASTATED.

And so far, it looks like this is eating him alive on a daily basis.

I remember that prediction you made and you were spot on with it! Well done!

I am enjoying watching the whinging and name calling continue from those armchair social engineer leftists who lost.

If the past few weeks are a glimpse into how the leftists will treat 4 years, possibly even 8 years, of President Trump & GOP politics then we are in for a treat; exciting times!

This reinforces what I told Hillis in another thread prior to the election, where I predicted Trump winning with 286 EVs (and was, of course, taunted and ridiculed for daring to suggest that Clinton could lose) and stated that if Trump lost, I'd be disappointed but would go on with my life, whereas if Trump won, he'd be DEVASTATED.

And so far, it looks like this is eating him alive on a daily basis.

Indeed. Right up there with some people at work that had to take a couple of days off to recover, and not from partying over the outcome.

Haven't seen that PacificBeach person that trash talked you either since the election, probably a sock puppet anyway.

Last edited by Boeing717200 on Fri Dec 02, 2016 1:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!

This is only one such possible way to do it, but this is really a problem that begs for an algorithmic solution. Both parties are guilty of gerrymandering, and it shouldn't be done on any level. I'd much rather trust the drawing of districts to mathematicians than politicians.

You can't do that. You'll totally eff up the donor pools. They won't know who to pander to.

240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!

Comment on districts redrawn in order to protect "minority-majority" districts (as is commonly done); is this not also improper boundary-drawing?

I think it is only bad when Republicans are doing it.When Democrats do the exact same thing on state legislatures that they control it is fine and dandy because they are not evil/racist/misogynistic/hunters of baby seals and haters of puppies like the Repubs!

Well when a court labels Democrat voter ID laws targeting a race "almost surgical precision" and the conservative 5th circuit court tells them that their voter ID laws are unconstitutional, we can talk. Until then, the GOP owns the racist voter ID laws "solution" in search of a nonexistent problem.

I know many of you were around in '08 and '12 when Obama won, and I remember the reaction at the time. I remember the doomsday posts and the whining and calls of "not my president," which is funny in retrospect considering the dumpster fire of a human being that was just elected.

I know many of you were around in '08 and '12 when Obama won, and I remember the reaction at the time. I remember the doomsday posts and the whining and calls of "not my president," which is funny in retrospect considering the dumpster fire of a human being that was just elected.

Just to be clear, both candidates were a dumpster fire this year. Things couldn't have been quite as bad. Over the top insults and straight up vulgarity weren't exactly permitted until recently.

Last edited by Boeing717200 on Fri Dec 02, 2016 3:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!

Why don't we just skip the bullshit and let math and computers draw our districts.

Geez we had an attempt by the Dems (which I am by the way) to do that with Gerrymander after the 2000 census trying to dilute the Republican contingency.The Dems method was put a pocket or street from one area and move the voting place miles away to discourage voting.It was a out house mess. I drove 17 miles north of where I lived to my assigned polling place in another county. The people on the other side of the street drove 23 miles South to another county.Not counting the previous polling place across the street from my house and route I had to drive by 9 or 11 polling places to get to vote.

Here is the algorithm problem starts to cause issues. Where I voted you were divided into school districts votes (6 districts), cities, (5 cities), counties ( 4 counties), state house, state senate, federal house and federal senate and double that yet if it was a primary, we have closed primaries. If it was my school district, city or county election then there was only 11 households that voted at that polling place. It was an outhouse mess. 6 x 5 x 4 x 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 = 1920 different ballots on a general election and up to 3840 different ballots if there was more than one candidate in a primary. You have to take school districts, cities, counties, state house, state senate and federal house and senate when making districts. Sitting behind a computer screen with a pipe does not work in the real world.I was so glad when I rebuilt. I now vote down the street.

I know many of you were around in '08 and '12 when Obama won, and I remember the reaction at the time. I remember the doomsday posts and the whining and calls of "not my president," which is funny in retrospect considering the dumpster fire of a human being that was just elected.

It is not funny really, but very true about the way Obama was greeted by the Conservatives on here and everywhere. A conspiracy of vitriol, and outright hatred and also a conspiracy of blockage from the get go. We own Trump, he won, and now it is his turn to suffer the arrows of opposition and yes some hatred. He has earned it. I doubt that we will see the concentrated avalanche of hatred we have seen for the last eight years against Obama, unprecedented in my lifetime.

Why don't we just skip the bullshit and let math and computers draw our districts.

Or send the two candidates with the highest number of votes in the primaries, irrespective of party affiliation, to the general elections. Views tend to moderate and campaigns tend to be about policy, not demonizing the opponent, when candidates cannot rely on the R or D next to their name alone to get votes.

Those elected to the State Legislature this year will have to run again next year, as a means to get rid of the gerrymandered results.

I for one think it is an excellent resolution. Elected officials are not often enough held to account for their political misdeeds, although for that we can blame partisan elections and voters who choose strctly by party affiliation (like so-called fiscally conservative Republicans who keep electing representatives who cost their states millions in legal fees to defend indefensible laws).

If this decision stands, at least the message in North Carolina is clear:politicians who change the rules to their benefits may have to campaign sooner than expected, and under different rules... Perhaps they'll think twice.

If this decision stands, at least the message in North Carolina is clear:politicians who change the rules to their benefits may have to campaign sooner than expected, and under different rules... Perhaps they'll think twice.

We can only hope and pray this happens, the system is corrupt, broken by greed and getting worse. If this last fiasco of an election does not teach us, we are doomed to more dissention and turmoil. Somebody once said famously, "a nation divided cannot stand" He was correct then and now.

Comment on districts redrawn in order to protect "minority-majority" districts (as is commonly done); is this not also improper boundary-drawing?

I think it is only bad when Republicans are doing it.When Democrats do the exact same thing on state legislatures that they control it is fine and dandy because they are not evil/racist/misogynistic/hunters of baby seals and haters of puppies like the Repubs!

Well when a court labels Democrat voter ID laws targeting a race "almost surgical precision" and the conservative 5th circuit court tells them that their voter ID laws are unconstitutional, we can talk. Until then, the GOP owns the racist voter ID laws "solution" in search of a nonexistent problem.

Clearly Wisconsin voter ID laws are working. All those cross border counties with adjacent states flipped. Word is out of state student voting was down too. Hmmm...

240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!

Those elected to the State Legislature this year will have to run again next year, as a means to get rid of the gerrymandered results.

I for one think it is an excellent resolution. Elected officials are not often enough held to account for their political misdeeds, although for that we can blame partisan elections and voters who choose strctly by party affiliation (like so-called fiscally conservative Republicans who keep electing representatives who cost their states millions in legal fees to defend indefensible laws).

If this decision stands, at least the message in North Carolina is clear:politicians who change the rules to their benefits may have to campaign sooner than expected, and under different rules... Perhaps they'll think twice.

Can we all sit around and have a chuckle when the results are the same?

BTW....your sig...do you even understand how our country works? Calfornia's wants and needs should not outweigh the rest of the country, not ever. It's but one State in a nation of 50. Besides, you guys already have mob rule. The rest of the nation will pass on that nonsense.

240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!

Besides, you guys already have mob rule. The rest of the nation will pass on that nonsense.

Like other GOP state are far more sensible in terms of the way they rule? There's a thing called a trifecta: party domination of the executive branch and the two legislative branches.

After the 2016 elections it stands as follows:Republicans: 26 (including NE which officially has a non-partisan senate, but its members identify as Republicans)Democrats: 6Split control: 18*

*From this split control, you can say there's a powerless executive when the legislature is overwhelmingly for one party and can override vetoes. Maryland and West Virginia are polar opposites: a governor (Republican for MD, Democrat for WV) that has to deal with a legislature (Democrat for MD, Republican for WV) with the power to override vetoes.

Mob rule? CA? Take a look at the South and the Midwest and talk to me about mob rule.

Those elected to the State Legislature this year will have to run again next year, as a means to get rid of the gerrymandered results.

Republicans are saying this overturns the will of millions of people, but in reality, this is the only way the GOP is holding on to power in states that are trending more blue. Drawing unbiased districts is the only way to have fair elections, not in having some state or federal congressional district that's about 3 miles wide and 90 miles long snake through a state to target certain voters.

I don't know if this will make the North Carolina State Legislature blue, but I suspect it will even out the representation within the state, and hopefully stop the wave of fascist-type bills and laws that have been streaming out of that body.

Won't matter. They can draw it on pure party status, and still keep the majority until someone declares the GOP as a racist organization.

When the congressional districts were redrawn for this year, they will wound up with a 10-3 advantage even through the voting was D46.6/R53.3 difference.

Then change it to proportional representation and a party list. It's the fairest way of doing it.

Ummm could someone explain why we're attacking a poster who isn't discussing the election at all?

That's easy. It's the typical conservative M/O. You change the subject so that the real subject is obfuscated or forgotten, and those attacking don't have to deal with the subject at hand

.

MaverickM11 wrote:

MileHighClubber wrote:

sccutler wrote:

Idle question:

Comment on districts redrawn in order to protect "minority-majority" districts (as is commonly done); is this not also improper boundary-drawing?

I think it is only bad when Republicans are doing it.When Democrats do the exact same thing on state legislatures that they control it is fine and dandy because they are not evil/racist/misogynistic/hunters of baby seals and haters of puppies like the Repubs!

Well when a court labels Democrat voter ID laws targeting a race "almost surgical precision" and the conservative 5th circuit court tells them that their voter ID laws are unconstitutional, we can talk. Until then, the GOP owns the racist voter ID laws "solution" in search of a nonexistent problem.

Gerrymandering has been a problem since the term was coined in honor of former Vice President Elbridge Gerry, way back in the 1800's. Both parties have done it, of that there's no doubt, and it's wrong no matter who is doing it.

But the newest round, in GOP-dominated states, are designed to either eliminate or marginalize African-American voters. In the last 4 or 5 U.S. House elections nationwide, the Democrats have received more votes than the GOP. But with districts drawn to group African-Americans in ridiculously drawn districts to lessen the impact of their vote, and with voter ID laws clearly made to lessen their overall vote, it's taken a new, vile twist. And it isn't just the laws. Look what Alabama did after they passed one of these voter ID laws. They then closed 42 of the 46 locations where voters can register to vote. Guess where just about all those places were located: African-American areas. That is outright voter suppression.

And the fact that, unlike past gerrymandering, these new laws are being struck down even by conservative-leaning Federal courts is a clear indication of how far the GOP is willing to push the boundaries of voter suppression.

I still expect next year that, after these elections, the GOP will still retain a majority in their state legislature. But I believe you'll see their numbers drastically reduced, with a lot of these scorched-earth, far-right lunatics being tossed. I think you'll the state much more evenly represented.

I think it is only bad when Republicans are doing it.When Democrats do the exact same thing on state legislatures that they control it is fine and dandy because they are not evil/racist/misogynistic/hunters of baby seals and haters of puppies like the Repubs!

Well when a court labels Democrat voter ID laws targeting a race "almost surgical precision" and the conservative 5th circuit court tells them that their voter ID laws are unconstitutional, we can talk. Until then, the GOP owns the racist voter ID laws "solution" in search of a nonexistent problem.

Clearly Wisconsin voter ID laws are working. All those cross border counties with adjacent states flipped. Word is out of state student voting was down too. Hmmm...

Yes black and student votes were way down just coincidentally....can't imagine why the GOP would want that "Working" would assume there was a problem before; apparently for the GOP that problem was blacks and students exercising their right to vote.

Well when a court labels Democrat voter ID laws targeting a race "almost surgical precision" and the conservative 5th circuit court tells them that their voter ID laws are unconstitutional, we can talk. Until then, the GOP owns the racist voter ID laws "solution" in search of a nonexistent problem.

Clearly Wisconsin voter ID laws are working. All those cross border counties with adjacent states flipped. Word is out of state student voting was down too. Hmmm...

Yes black and student votes were way down just coincidentally....can't imagine why the GOP would want that "Working" would assume there was a problem before; apparently for the GOP that problem was blacks and students exercising their right to vote.

Pfft. What a rediculous logic fail. Students had to vote based on their residency status and minority's didn't have Obama to vote for. Next time try a better candidate. A freakin tree stump should have been able to beat Trump.

240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!

Clearly Wisconsin voter ID laws are working. All those cross border counties with adjacent states flipped. Word is out of state student voting was down too. Hmmm...

Yes black and student votes were way down just coincidentally....can't imagine why the GOP would want that "Working" would assume there was a problem before; apparently for the GOP that problem was blacks and students exercising their right to vote.

Pfft. What a rediculous logic fail. Students had to vote based on their residency status and minority's didn't have Obama to vote for. Next time try a better candidate. A freakin tree stump should have been able to beat Trump.

Most students in most states have always been able to vote where they're going to college. I did. My brother did. So you're telling me it's just nothing that now, the GOP states want kids to travel back home, during school week, to vote? There was little if any fraud the other way (but we know fraud legislation from the GOP is a huge solution looking for a problem), so why change it? That's easy. They don't want them to vote.

And tell me that closing 42 of 46 DMV's in Alabama, where you register to vote, and because the state requires ID's to vote, didn't hurt African-American turnout? Can you really tell me that with a straight face? If you do, you know you're lying right through your teeth. It was done EXACTLY to keep African-Americans from voting.

Besides, you guys already have mob rule. The rest of the nation will pass on that nonsense.

Like other GOP state are far more sensible in terms of the way they rule? There's a thing called a trifecta: party domination of the executive branch and the two legislative branches.

After the 2016 elections it stands as follows:Republicans: 26 (including NE which officially has a non-partisan senate, but its members identify as Republicans)Democrats: 6Split control: 18*

*From this split control, you can say there's a powerless executive when the legislature is overwhelmingly for one party and can override vetoes. Maryland and West Virginia are polar opposites: a governor (Republican for MD, Democrat for WV) that has to deal with a legislature (Democrat for MD, Republican for WV) with the power to override vetoes.

Mob rule? CA? Take a look at the South and the Midwest and talk to me about mob rule.

Wonder about the population of those states. California is so wrapped up for Democrats, they have super-majority veto power over the Democrat governor.

Wonder about the population of those states. California is so wrapped up for Democrats, they have super-majority veto power over the Democrat governor.

Replace California with virtually every Southern state, and Democrats with Republicans, and it's the same issue.

So focused on CA being overwhelmingly blue (which only happened after the last contested senate race went for the Democrats, giving them a supermajority in the senate), when there are other states that became even redder (Kentucky, for example).

The best example of an uber-blue state: HI, where the state senate balance begins next year at 25-0 for Democrats. That's right. It will be the only chamber where one party will control all the seats (something not seen since 1979 in the South).

Clearly Wisconsin voter ID laws are working. All those cross border counties with adjacent states flipped. Word is out of state student voting was down too. Hmmm...

Yes black and student votes were way down just coincidentally....can't imagine why the GOP would want that "Working" would assume there was a problem before; apparently for the GOP that problem was blacks and students exercising their right to vote.

Pfft. What a rediculous logic fail. Students had to vote based on their residency status and minority's didn't have Obama to vote for. Next time try a better candidate. A freakin tree stump should have been able to beat Trump.

You're gonna talk about logic and then tell me the results of the vote somehow logically justify/absolve the voter ID laws? Did the WI GOP know Trump and Clinton would be the two candidates when they passed the voter ID law in 2011? The law disenfranchised an estimated 300,000 registered voters that did not have acceptable ID...this election was decided by around 80,000 votes across multiple states. Now I can't imagine why the GOP would want to disenfranchise all these minorities...hrmmmm

Can we all sit around and have a chuckle when the results are the same?

Believe it or not, I'll be fine if the results are the same. I'm not thinking a new election will change the balance of power, I'm hoping it will annoy the politicians enough they'll think twice before they pass another law that might force them to stand for elections unexpectedly. Former politicians keep saying some of the things they hated the most about their time in office were raising funds and kissing babies. Making them do some more of that seems appropriate. If it flips the vote (one way or the other), that's the proverbial cherry. That should definitively make them think.

Boeing717200 wrote:

BTW....your sig...do you even understand how our country works? Calfornia's wants and needs should not outweigh the rest of the country, not ever. It's but one State in a nation of 50. Besides, you guys already have mob rule. the rest of the nation will pass on that nonsense.

So a state's "wants and needs should not outweigh the rest of the country, not ever." But the "wants and needs" of 100,000 voters should outweigh the "wants and needs" of 3 million, especially when the 100,00 are Republicans, I presume. Very enlightening explanation, I am educated.

Or could it be that, while I understand the purpose of the current process and don't disagree with it on principle, I also think that throwing away more than 1% of the votes is a price too high to pay. There are better systems that do protect the interests of smaller states and do take the results of the popular vote into account too.

Yes black and student votes were way down just coincidentally....can't imagine why the GOP would want that "Working" would assume there was a problem before; apparently for the GOP that problem was blacks and students exercising their right to vote.

Pfft. What a rediculous logic fail. Students had to vote based on their residency status and minority's didn't have Obama to vote for. Next time try a better candidate. A freakin tree stump should have been able to beat Trump.

Most students in most states have always been able to vote where they're going to college. I did. My brother did. So you're telling me it's just nothing that now, the GOP states want kids to travel back home, during school week, to vote? There was little if any fraud the other way (but we know fraud legislation from the GOP is a huge solution looking for a problem), so why change it? That's easy. They don't want them to vote.

And tell me that closing 42 of 46 DMV's in Alabama, where you register to vote, and because the state requires ID's to vote, didn't hurt African-American turnout? Can you really tell me that with a straight face? If you do, you know you're lying right through your teeth. It was done EXACTLY to keep African-Americans from voting.

So, yes, Trump is right, the system is rigged-in favor of the GOP,

So you voted where you weren't a resident? Ever read your affidavit? The first question is typically "Are you a resident of "X" state?" A student isn't a resident. You vote absentee in your state of residence.

240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!

Can we all sit around and have a chuckle when the results are the same?

Believe it or not, I'll be fine if the results are the same. I'm not thinking a new election will change the balance of power, I'm hoping it will annoy the politicians enough they'll think twice before they pass another law that might force them to stand for elections unexpectedly. Former politicians keep saying some of the things they hated the most about their time in office were raising funds and kissing babies. Making them do some more of that seems appropriate. If it flips the vote (one way or the other), that's the proverbial cherry. That should definitively make them think.

Boeing717200 wrote:

BTW....your sig...do you even understand how our country works? Calfornia's wants and needs should not outweigh the rest of the country, not ever. It's but one State in a nation of 50. Besides, you guys already have mob rule. the rest of the nation will pass on that nonsense.

So a state's "wants and needs should not outweigh the rest of the country, not ever." But the "wants and needs" of 100,000 voters should outweigh the "wants and needs" of 3 million, especially when the 100,00 are Republicans, I presume. Very enlightening explanation, I am educated.

Or could it be that, while I understand the purpose of the current process and don't disagree with it on principle, I also think that throwing away more than 1% of the votes is a price too high to pay. There are better systems that do protect the interests of smaller states and do take the results of the popular vote into account too.

Thanks for confirming that you don't understand it.

240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!