Last logitech mouse I bought was the G500, which was a jittery unusable mess with practically zero accuracy, also an uncomfortable RSI inducing nightmare(too narrow). I'm never buying another logitech mouse.

Currently rocking a 16400 DPI Redragon Perdition, solid high quality construction, comfy, tons of buttons(12 programable thumb buttons). Oh and it's reasonably priced. A bit fiddly to get the settings where I wanted them(partially because of the high DPI, because windows has limited sensitivity presets) and the thumb buttons took a bit of breaking in, but I love it now.

If you prefer something more similar to the logitech ones, I'd recommend Roccat Kone XTD, which has awesome accurate tracking and is very comfortable.

Looks good, but I'm really waiting for a new wireless mouse from them. I love my MX Revolution since the rechargeable battery lasts forever, even when you redline it. I just can't see myself getting something with a cord. Evil cords... <_<

Is it as light, accurate and comfortable as the Deathadder 2013? Sure doesn't look like it. The thumb gripper of the Deathadder alone make it far more valuable to me. I'm going to pass because logitech.

AngryMongoose:Why do they keep shoving laser sensors into gaming mice? A Microsoft standard optical mouse would do you better for gaming than any "gaming" mouse with a laser sensor.

DPI is not a measurement of speed, it is how many points of data the device can pick up over a distance of one inch (which lasers are far better at doing). As a consequence, the "speed" of the cursor will increase, and you are meant to lower the mouse sensitivity in game. This is why there are always sensitivity settings, even in the worst of the console ports. A lot of devices use DPI as a quick way to change the cursor speed in game, which is why many incorrectly think it's just a unit of speed. High DPI + comfortable sensitivity settings make the movement of the cursor smoother and more accurate, especially with micro movements. A mouse is only as good as the surface you use it on, and a proper surface will allow you to nudge the mouse a mm this way or that with a negligible coefficient of static friction (the force it takes to overcome the frictional force of a stationary object is higher than the "coefficient of kinetic friction", eg the force it takes to keep an object moving, so unless you have a nice mousepad you might find it difficult to make small movements because the mouse will "stick" to it, and you'll inevitably move it further than intended).

One thing I will never understand is the idea of custom weights for mice. You will quickly get used to any mouse you buy, so the only thing a new weighted mouse does for you is save maybe 5 hour's worth of learning curve. Pretty gimmicky at the end of the day. Plus, given the ability to change the weight, I would go insane looking for the "perfect" setup, finally decide on something and spend the rest of my days thinking the other weight was better but I'm too used to this one to change now... No thanks.

I personally love my G700s (wired/wireless connections should be standard on every device IMO; X1 controller ftw), and I love Logitech's unified, singular driver for all their gaming devices, and I love its scripting ability. I won't be dropping this any time soon.

The slider on windows actually isn't good to use. It doesn't really matter at the end of the day unless you're anal about these sort of things like I am, but only exactly one point on that slider (6th notch IIRC) is 1:1 with movement:data. Increasing the slider causes the cursor to move in units of more than one count of data, decreasing causes it to move in units of less than one count of data. See http://www.overclock.net/t/1251156/an-overview-of-mouse-technology#user_xviii for a less stupid explanation. It's a pain in the rump but sensitivity is ideally adjusted per game- otherwise windows is polluting your input. Also of note: "enhance pointer precision" is nice for laptop touchpads, but it's a form of acceleration and is polluting your gaming input.

jpoon:Is it as light, accurate and comfortable as the Deathadder 2013? Sure doesn't look like it. The thumb gripper of the Deathadder alone make it far more valuable to me. I'm going to pass because logitech.

Logitech offers a range of products and it's very much you get what you pay for. The expensive ones are very nice, the cheap ones are not as nice. I've owned many a logitech product over the years and I can tell you their higher end products, unit defects and preference notwithstanding, are definitely of good quality and design. I can't say the same about razer though; buying a razer product is a gamble; it's very much hit or miss, and their design process seems to be "function follows form"...

DPI is not a measurement of speed, it is how many points of data the device can pick up over a distance of one inch (which lasers are far better at doing). As a consequence, the "speed" of the cursor will increase, and you are meant to lower the mouse sensitivity in game. This is why there are always sensitivity settings, even in the worst of the console ports. A lot of devices use DPI as a quick way to change the cursor speed in game, which is why many incorrectly think it's just a unit of speed. High DPI + comfortable sensitivity settings make the movement of the cursor smoother and more accurate, especially with micro movements. A mouse is only as good as the surface you use it on, and a proper surface will allow you to nudge the mouse a mm this way or that with a negligible coefficient of static friction (the force it takes to overcome the frictional force of a stationary object is higher than the "coefficient of kinetic friction", eg the force it takes to keep an object moving, so unless you have a nice mousepad you might find it difficult to make small movements because the mouse will "stick" to it, and you'll inevitably move it further than intended).

One thing I will never understand is the idea of custom weights for mice. You will quickly get used to any mouse you buy, so the only thing a new weighted mouse does for you is save maybe 5 hour's worth of learning curve. Pretty gimmicky at the end of the day. Plus, given the ability to change the weight, I would go insane looking for the "perfect" setup, finally decide on something and spend the rest of my days thinking the other weight was better but I'm too used to this one to change now... No thanks.

I know how DPI work, merely saying that i find 1600 enough for me to aim precisely without needing to buy 6400 DPI mouses.

As far as mouse weight, i think the main use in those are in wireless mice due to batteries. ive seen people who put weights in mice to replace the weight that the batteries normally have to keep the weight consistent. thought i agree that its far easier to just adjust to the mice your using or just buy one you like to begin with.

As far as logitech products, i often buy low end products from them and they are pretty good in comparison to other low end products. they are a good manufacturer in my opinion and i wasnt putting them down in my post, merely this single model that looked like it would be very uncomfortable to use.

I know how DPI work, merely saying that i find 1600 enough for me to aim precisely without needing to buy 6400 DPI mouses.

I can aim reasonably precisely with an optical mouse, if I needed to. I do think we're reaching the limits of human perceptibility with 8000 DPI, but it could very well be that I only think this because I've never experienced anything higher. The difference between 1,600 and 8,000 is night and day to me. I could use 1,600 though. I could also use an optical mouse. But I have a nice mouse that has the added perk of going up to 8,200. I have my doubts, but it's possible the difference between 16,400 and 8,000 might also be significantly perceptively different.

Though I do think 16,400 DPI is just a selling point with no actual benefit, similar to megapixels in a camera- megapixels hardly matter after a certain threshold (like 10), but that's not common knowledge so they make cameras with 45MP sensors and the bigger numbers fool people into thinking the product is inherently better, and it sells better.

In short, there is no "need" for high DPI, but that doesn't mean it isn't nice to have.

I know how DPI work, merely saying that i find 1600 enough for me to aim precisely without needing to buy 6400 DPI mouses.

I can aim reasonably precisely with an optical mouse, if I needed to. I do think we're reaching the limits of human perceptibility with 8000 DPI, but it could very well be that I only think this because I've never experienced anything higher. The difference between 1,600 and 8,000 is night and day to me. I could use 1,600 though. I could also use an optical mouse. But I have a nice mouse that has the added perk of going up to 8,200. I have my doubts, but it's possible the difference between 16,400 and 8,000 might also be significantly perceptively different.

Though I do think 16,400 DPI is just a selling point with no actual benefit, similar to megapixels in a camera- megapixels hardly matter after a certain threshold (like 10), but that's not common knowledge so they make cameras with 45MP sensors and the bigger numbers fool people into thinking the product is inherently better, and it sells better.

In short, there is no "need" for high DPI, but that doesn't mean it isn't nice to have.

yes, i agree its nice to have and difference exist, merely that im doing fine with 1600 as well.

as far as megapixels go, i want all the megapixels. of course provided that other functions are equally good. because digital zooming is important to me, and for that you need huge resolution sensors.

I know how DPI work, merely saying that i find 1600 enough for me to aim precisely without needing to buy 6400 DPI mouses.

I can aim reasonably precisely with an optical mouse, if I needed to. I do think we're reaching the limits of human perceptibility with 8000 DPI, but it could very well be that I only think this because I've never experienced anything higher. The difference between 1,600 and 8,000 is night and day to me. I could use 1,600 though. I could also use an optical mouse. But I have a nice mouse that has the added perk of going up to 8,200. I have my doubts, but it's possible the difference between 16,400 and 8,000 might also be significantly perceptively different.

Though I do think 16,400 DPI is just a selling point with no actual benefit, similar to megapixels in a camera- megapixels hardly matter after a certain threshold (like 10), but that's not common knowledge so they make cameras with 45MP sensors and the bigger numbers fool people into thinking the product is inherently better, and it sells better.

In short, there is no "need" for high DPI, but that doesn't mean it isn't nice to have.

yes, i agree its nice to have and difference exist, merely that im doing fine with 1600 as well.

as far as megapixels go, i want all the megapixels. of course provided that other functions are equally good. because digital zooming is important to me, and for that you need huge resolution sensors.

As I already said, you shouldn't fall for that trap. You're just zooming in on junk, digital noise, not data relevant to the actual picture.

which is why i said "provided that other functions are equally good". Megapixels alone is useless. megapixels together with good lenses and sensors is,as one commenter there put it, "Geek porn". As far as why i need digital zoom and cant use optical zoom, well, a lens that can do that wont fit in my back-pocket now would it.

link68759:Wow I thought the escapist userbase would be full of informed gamers; apparently not so...

AngryMongoose:Why do they keep shoving laser sensors into gaming mice? A Microsoft standard optical mouse would do you better for gaming than any "gaming" mouse with a laser sensor.

You quoted me but never actually address what it is I said. Yes, laser mice often have a better DPI than optical mice. And I'm aware that a high DPI means a high resolution in the tracking. But DPI still isn't the only consideration when buying a mouse (and there is a limit to what is actually useful). A big part of it is that laser mice have hardware mouse acceleration, the enemy of anyone trying to shoot accurately in an FPS. They also stutter considerably compared to optical mice, when used on a cloth or hard mousepad (regardless of how well they perform on glass).This guide: http://www.overclock.net/t/951894/the-truthful-mouse-guide has a good section on laser vs optical.

link68759:Wow I thought the escapist userbase would be full of informed gamers; apparently not so...

AngryMongoose:Why do they keep shoving laser sensors into gaming mice? A Microsoft standard optical mouse would do you better for gaming than any "gaming" mouse with a laser sensor.

You quoted me but never actually address what it is I said. Yes, laser mice often have a better DPI than optical mice. And I'm aware that a high DPI means a high resolution in the tracking. But DPI still isn't the only consideration when buying a mouse (and there is a limit to what is actually useful). A big part of it is that laser mice have hardware mouse acceleration, the enemy of anyone trying to shoot accurately in an FPS. They also stutter considerably compared to optical mice, when used on a cloth or hard mousepad (regardless of how well they perform on glass).This guide: http://www.overclock.net/t/951894/the-truthful-mouse-guide has a good section on laser vs optical.

Not sure if you were addressing me or him, but re-read my post (as well as the rest of the thread), I modified it shortly after posting.

That article is so old as to be outdated (treating 1080p as a fringe case, unlikely high res and most of the products he draws from are years older than the already dated time of writing) and also of questionable validity- nearly all of the following comments are not agreeing with his findings, which the author does say is only based off his own personal experiences. It seems that a lot of what he is attributing to laser error is really just software defect in the way pre-Windows 7 handles the cursor (easily more observable at higher DPI).

I won't argue this further though; there is enough in the comments to sufficiently call his observations into question.

One thing I will never understand is the idea of custom weights for mice. You will quickly get used to any mouse you buy, so the only thing a new weighted mouse does for you is save maybe 5 hour's worth of learning curve. Pretty gimmicky at the end of the day. Plus, given the ability to change the weight, I would go insane looking for the "perfect" setup, finally decide on something and spend the rest of my days thinking the other weight was better but I'm too used to this one to change now... No thanks.

I have a glass mouse mat so I use the weights to keep it from sliding by it self from the weight of the cable. I just got an G502 and it couldn't stay fixed because of the way the cable was folded and the low friction surface. A nice thing about the weights in the G502 is the placement all around the bottom keeping the center of gravity low compared to my G500 which had the weights kinda centered in the middle.

I also just like my mouse to have some weight.

AngryMongoose:A big part of it is that laser mice have hardware mouse acceleration, the enemy of anyone trying to shoot accurately in an FPS. They also stutter considerably compared to optical mice, when used on a cloth or hard mousepad (regardless of how well they perform on glass).This guide: http://www.overclock.net/t/951894/the-truthful-mouse-guide has a good section on laser vs optical.

First, it's all laser optical. Optical mouses and lases mouses all use lasers LEDs. The g502 uses a new kind of laser, though. Logitech also claims that the G502 has no mouse acceleration, smoothing, pixel rounding, and snapping. I don't really know what to look for but it is very precise (blame it on user error if it isn't) and I have seen no stuttering.

EDIT: Okay I'm spouting off bullshit, an optical mouse isn't laser but laser mouses are optical. http://youtu.be/QjhdSUP7LGg?t=2m30s also tech sales talk about the new sensor.

One thing I will never understand is the idea of custom weights for mice. You will quickly get used to any mouse you buy, so the only thing a new weighted mouse does for you is save maybe 5 hour's worth of learning curve. Pretty gimmicky at the end of the day. Plus, given the ability to change the weight, I would go insane looking for the "perfect" setup, finally decide on something and spend the rest of my days thinking the other weight was better but I'm too used to this one to change now... No thanks.

I have a glass mouse mat so I use the weights to keep it from sliding by it self from the weight of the cable. I just got an G502 and it couldn't stay fixed because of the way the cable was folded and the low friction surface. A nice thing about the weights in the G502 is the placement all around the bottom keeping the center of gravity low compared to my G500 which had the weights kinda centered in the middle.

I also just like my mouse to have some weight.

I had a similar problem with my metal mousepad: the cable was heavy and the friction was low enough that it pulls the mouse. However, the cable for the g700s is so long that it hits the floor and stops pulling. This means that my mouse generally drifted forward when I took my hand off- so the cursor wouldn't stay on what I had it pointing at (but the mouse was never in danger of falling off). Small enough problem that I ignored it for a year then I just got something to prop the cable up near the end of the desk. I don't use this, but razer actually makes a product just for that issue http://www.razerzone.com/store/razer-mouse-bungee

I got one recently to replace my pretty old G5 mouse, but there are some things that are just not quite the full 100% satisfaction and the immediate "it's all I ever wanted" kind of feeling when I hold te mouse, witch I had with the G5.On an other note, the wheel in the G502 is terrible, full metal, heavy, slippery and it doesn't give me the right feel.I dug up some older G500s mouse, tore up the inner working bits and used the omron swithces to replace the ones on my old G5 and also replaced the wire. The wheel used on the G500s is pretty decent with the ribbed rubber lining in the middle, Logitech made a good descision in using the same cradle for the wheel in the G502, so I swapped those out. It's not making the mouse shape immediately better, but the use is more comfortable. The G5 is still my working mouse, but the Setpoint software is getting older. The G502 is slowly becoming my gaming mouse, even if it is just because it has more accesseble buttons with decent switches underneath. Just too bad I had to cannibalize a different mouse for parts to make it more usable.Thank god for standardization on parts by Logitech.

Dirkie:I got one recently to replace my pretty old G5 mouse, but there are some things that are just not quite the full 100% satisfaction and the immediate "it's all I ever wanted" kind of feeling when I hold te mouse, witch I had with the G5.On an other note, the wheel in the G502 is terrible, full metal, heavy, slippery and it doesn't give me the right feel.I dug up some older G500s mouse, tore up the inner working bits and used the omron swithces to replace the ones on my old G5 and also replaced the wire. The wheel used on the G500s is pretty decent with the ribbed rubber lining in the middle, Logitech made a good descision in using the same cradle for the wheel in the G502, so I swapped those out. It's not making the mouse shape immediately better, but the use is more comfortable. The G5 is still my working mouse, but the Setpoint software is getting older. The G502 is slowly becoming my gaming mouse, even if it is just because it has more accesseble buttons with decent switches underneath. Just too bad I had to cannibalize a different mouse for parts to make it more usable.Thank god for standardization on parts by Logitech.

How did you replace the switches without destroying the pads? All the screws are under those and once you take 'em off, they're bent. You found a replacement pad source?

How did you replace the switches without destroying the pads? All the screws are under those and once you take 'em off, they're bent. You found a replacement pad source?

I didn't take the pads off, my usual approach is pretty crude actually.First I determine the center of the hole for the screws (blunt pencil works fine), after that with a very sharp knife (scalpel, exacto, boxcutter, whatever you have at hand) I made two cuts, resulting in a cross over the center of each screw. After that, a small philipshead screwdriver can be used to puncture the pad and loosen the screws. The pad will not be taken off the bottom of the mouse. Keep in mind that the small pad on the left is a terrible design choice by logitech and the cut/puncture approach works best with big mouse feet, not the smaller ones. A bonus effect is keeping the screws in the holes when you do it like this.Also, the bottom of the G502 is snapped pretty tight to the top cover and you will need considerable force and leverage to get them apart, even with removed screws.

After re-assembly you can flatten and massage the mouse feet more or less in usable shape with almost no ill effects on the handling on hard mousemats. I have no idea how it will behave on cloth after cutting.

Big warning - warranty almost certainly void with this approach.

Smaller message, a replacement pad source might be regular logitech mouse feet (you can order them on the site) and cut those to size, all the G502 pads are as big or smaller than the G5/G500s feet.

Reading this thread... it's hard to understand why all this DPI stuff is really that important. The mouse I use is just a cheap Logitech wireless mouse with 2 buttons and a scroll wheel, and it seems fine to me. Maybe I'm just ignorant, like the guy claiming 60FPS isn't any better than 30FPS, but I really don't understand this. I mean, if the screen is only 1920x1080 to begin with, how would such precision even be detectable?