If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

So in regards to your initial post concerning Kyrie Irving, in September, he told a Boston radio host he was just kidding about being a flat Earther. He just wanted to have an “open conversation” and prove a point: “If I believe that the world is flat, and you believe that the world is round, does that knock my intellectual capacity, or the fact that I can think different things than you can?”

As best as I can tell, and I have searched quite a bit for a legitimate sound bite or quote from Kyrie on this....he has NEVER recanted his original assertion that he believes the earth is flat...and as the recent youtube clip suggests...he's NOT joking. Now, the way he has approached the topic with media, on podcasts and in interviews, I can definitely see him being careful how he discusses his views, because he knows his audience.

https://youtu.be/pfXHsuaAWeE
All that said, I only titled this thread the way I did because of how popular Kyrie is. Plus, in addition to his candor as he talks about his beliefs, I have utmost respect for the brother's incredible hoop skills.

A friend of mine just sent this to me. Now I'm the kind of guy who will take a good look at anything and see if it makes sense. So, this seems plausible...

I tend to think that belief in conspiracy theories, like flat earthism, help some people to feel relevant in an increasingly complex and hard-to-understand world. In the almost every field of learning, and especially in the sciences, it take years of dedication and learning before you even have a hope of contributing to your field of study. It often takes a degree in a subject just to understand what the experts are talking about — i.e. you are one of a select few who do.

Conspiracy theories, on the other hand, can be understood by anyone, but they are only believed by a relatively small community of people ranged against the massive edifice of the scientific establishment or the globalists, the New World Order, etc. — the powers that be.

So conspiracy theorists believe they know better — they have some special knowledge that the "sheeple" around them can’t see, or refuse to see, and it makes them feel special, superior, in the way they imagine those so-called real experts must feel when they talk in esoteric terms about subjects the common folk can barely understand, but without having to go through years of hard work to get there.

It’s also how conspiracy theorists bring order to chaos — they believe that the chaos and random events in this world are just made to look that way by a controlling globalist elite, and are really part of a meticulous long term plan to enslave the human race (after killing off most of us). Again, figuring this out makes them feel superior to those around them who are still blind to the facts they see clearly.

Of course, in turn, if we’re brutally honest, those of us who engage with the conspiracy theorists are typically doing it because it makes us feel superior to them, since we’re not dumb enough to fall for their nonsense. But that’s okay… isn’t it?

The Bible said for Jesus we're ambassadors / So it's time to rip off this muzzle of fear and passiveness / — Datin

Light, you’ve said repeatedly “the Bible does not teach a flat earth”.....

While I consider this little book just a primer, brother Nathan brings a lot of Scripture to bear on the topic.

I’d be interested to discuss some of it with you, if you have the time and interest.

Love you brother!

Caleb, I went to that link you provided. It seems this whole flat earth doctrine is really giving Christians a bad name. Not that we don't already face persecution for bearing the name of Jesus, but this is giving people an even greater reason not to trust or believe what Christians say.

The Bible said for Jesus we're ambassadors / So it's time to rip off this muzzle of fear and passiveness / — Datin

The Following User Says Thank You to The Light Within For This Useful Post:

I know brother, it’s quite intense and seems to be getting even more so as time passes and the word spreads. I have no interest in being divisive just for the sake of drama. My interest is knowing Christ and if the Bible can be trusted on matters of cosmology where I perceive it teaches different realities than modern (even 500 year old) “science”.

A lot of the push back in evangelical circles is on “interpretation”, or saying certain passages cannot be taken literal..etc.

While it would be much easier to just say “ok, forget the whole flat earth thing”, because Lord knows it’s not popular, I simply cannot yet. I am compelled thus far that the Bible definititively states a different reality, one that aligns with my observable senses much better than what I’ve been taught my whole life.

So, as I see it, there are only a few possibilities.

1. The Bible is silent on the shape and movement of the earth.
2. The Bible supports the heliocentric model.
3. The Bible supports a geocentric model, and modern “science” is deceptive in major areas (this is where I’m at right now). In this one, I believe MANY (if not most) well-intentioned people (Christians and others) are simply unaware that a conversation is even going on about these matters, and are not intentionally deceiving anyone.

Am I missing an option?

Light, visiting a Facebook page is a lot less informative than reading a book. Don’t give up that easy bro. Unless you are truly flat out sick of this convo and topic, because if that’s the case, I understand. (Pun intended, tee-hee)

I am compelled thus far that the Bible definititively states a different reality, one that aligns with my observable senses much better than what I’ve been taught my whole life.

But our observable senses can't fully be replied upon. After all, Jesus said to Thomas blessed are those who haven't seen and believed. We can't see or feel the air yet we know it's there. We as believers also walk by faith rather than by sight. So are you sure you can fully trust your senses? Our senses have been known to be notoriously unreliable.

The Bible said for Jesus we're ambassadors / So it's time to rip off this muzzle of fear and passiveness / — Datin

The Following User Says Thank You to The Light Within For This Useful Post:

My dear, dear Light! Love you man! Thanks for the post! My reliance is on God’s Word (by faith), not firstly my senses. But like I said, my senses do align much better with what I believe the Bible teaches, which is that the earth is firmly fixed and shall not move. I also see the sun move overhead, which also aligns with the Bible’s teaching that the sun is on its circuit and that the sun rises and sets. The whole “flat” aspect of the discussion is more of a rejection of a spherical spinning ball than anything, because of course there are mountains and valleys. Although I’ve read that researchers have taken measurements across the state of Kansas and it’s literally “flat as a pancake”.

My dear, dear Light! Love you man! Thanks for the post! My reliance is on God’s Word (by faith), not firstly my senses. But like I said, my senses do align much better with what I believe the Bible teaches, which is that the earth is firmly fixed and shall not move. I also see the sun move overhead, which also aligns with the Bible’s teaching that the sun is on its circuit and that the sun rises and sets. The whole “flat” aspect of the discussion is more of a rejection of a spherical spinning ball than anything, because of course there are mountains and valleys. Although I’ve read that researchers have taken measurements across the state of Kansas and it’s literally “flat as a pancake”.

My dear dear Caleb, Kansas didn't even crack the top five U.S. states for flatness. By any measure, Florida takes the prize for the flattest state in the nation because the highest point in the state is only 345 feet above sea level. Then Illinois, North Dakota, Louisiana, Minnesota and Delaware follow.

So when are you signing up for a job at NASA? I'd love for you to tour me around, but we can't go too far...okay.

Last edited by The Light Within; 02-10-2018 at 10:44 PM.

The Bible said for Jesus we're ambassadors / So it's time to rip off this muzzle of fear and passiveness / — Datin

The Following User Says Thank You to The Light Within For This Useful Post:

Light, sometimes I sense you are being serious with genuine interest on these matters, other times I sense you are mocking, still other times I sense you are tired of the conversation and would prefer it would just die (which is probably the most confusing, because you keep posting on it).

Whatever the case, I do love you brother and remain thankful for our friendship here and “offline”, which is still technically “online”, just not on HCR. Your faith encourages me brother! What a world we live in!

Light, sometimes I sense you are being serious with genuine interest on these matters, other times I sense you are mocking, still other times I sense you are tired of the conversation and would prefer it would just die (which is probably the most confusing, because you keep posting on it).

Well, you are partially right in all areas. My last post however was just a little more light heat hearted messing around. It would be great to have a tour of the cosmos though.

Do you believe anything is orbiting the earth as we speak?

Originally Posted by Caleb

Whatever the case, I do love you brother and remain thankful for our friendship here and “offline”, which is still technically “online”, just not on HCR. Your faith encourages me brother! What a world we live in!

Last edited by The Light Within; 02-12-2018 at 03:44 PM.

The Bible said for Jesus we're ambassadors / So it's time to rip off this muzzle of fear and passiveness / — Datin

With these types of things, since there is so little I can personally prove (or observe), I do not have many answers (just opinions).

That said:

1. I have seen tiny, fast moving objects of light far up in the sky on many occasions. What are they? I can’t say for sure, but suspect some of them were airplanes.
2. Based on the Scriptures, and my personal observations, I do not believe that the earth is a spinning ball in space, so therefore it stands to reason that I do not believe there are objects “orbiting” in space around a “globe”.

With these types of things, since there is so little I can personally prove (or observe), I do not have many answers (just opinions).

That said:

1. I have seen tiny, fast moving objects of light far up in the sky on many occasions. What are they? I can’t say for sure, but suspect some of them were airplanes.
2. Based on the Scriptures, and my personal observations, I do not believe that the earth is a spinning ball in space, so therefore it stands to reason that I do not believe there are objects “orbiting” in space around a “globe”.

What do you think?

There are an estimated 500,000 or so smaller orbital debris (between one and 10 centimeters in diameter) and about 21,000 larger bits (larger than 10 centimeters) spinning around Earth right now, according to NASA's Orbital Debris Program Office. You can actually see all but the smallest bits moving around us right now here: ||| http://stuffin.space ||| It tracks the paths of hundreds of thousands of orbital objects in realtime.

Just because I haven't seen Jesus by my own personal observations doesn't make Him any less real. Have I seen any of this up close myself, no, but I don't have any reason to believe it isn't there.

The Bible said for Jesus we're ambassadors / So it's time to rip off this muzzle of fear and passiveness / — Datin