A trickle of news today, leading with the big item. Bruce Bochy was asked if it’s possible the Giants could skip Tim Lincecum’s second start of the second half if his first one goes poorly. For the first time, Bochy didn’t exactly shoot down the suggestion.

“I don’t want to put added pressure on him,” Bochy said. “But you have to do what’s right.”
It’s easy to read between the lines. The Giants are trying to win the division, and it’s not fair to the rest of the team to endlessly stick with a guy who has a 6.42 ERA. The rope isn’t nearly as long for those who struggle at other positions. (Although Lincecum surely has earned the right to stay out there until the last possible moment.)

Asked if another rough start could be Lincecum’s last for a while, Bochy said, “We’ll keep an eye on him (Saturday). We’ll see how this goes.”

By all indications Thursday, Lincecum needs a decent start on Saturday to keep his spot in the rotation. Elsewhere on the Lincecum front, I got a good look at his bullpen session and saw firsthand what the Giants have been saying for weeks. He doesn’t need extra side sessions — he’s absolutely filthy in the ones he’s already throwing.

Everything was down, everything was moving. Lincecum just hasn’t been able to take that into games consistently. Which begs the question: What exactly is the solution if Lincecum struggles on Saturday? It certainly isn’t more side work.

— Aubrey Huff leaned on a railing at AT&T Park on Thursday and quickly drew smiles and jokes from teammates and staff. Huff’s last experience with the home dugout railing sent him to the disabled list, but he could finally be close to a return.

Huff has missed 23 games since spraining his right knee while hopping the railing in the celebration after Matt Cain’s perfect game, but Bochy said Thursday that Huff could rejoin the team next week.

Huff is scheduled to continue his rehab assignment this weekend, likely with the San Jose Giants. If all goes well, he could be activated in time for Tuesday’s game at the Atlanta Braves.

“He’s getting what he needs right now, which is playing time and at-bats,” Bochy said. “His knee is doing a lot better. I think he can help us, I know he can.”

Huff is 1 for 8 with the San Jose Giants with a homer and two walks. He took part in the San Francisco Giants workout on Thursday.

— Bochy said Santiago Casilla will be ready to close if the situation comes up Friday night against the Houston Astros. Casilla didn’t pitch in the last series of the first half because of a blister, which apparently was worse than it originally sounded.

“If anybody needed a break, it was Santiago,” Bochy said.

— Bochy caught glimpses of his players tearing up the All-Star Game, and said he was “proud of all of them.”

Melky Cabrera was named MVP after hitting a homer and scoring twice, Pablo Sandoval had a three-run triple, Matt Cain was the winning pitcher and Buster Posey walked and scored.

“They did such a great job of representing the Giants,” Bochy said. “It was a good feeling.”

The All-Stars were excused from Thursday’s workout, but Cabrera took part anyway and Pablo Sandoval came to AT&T Park earlier in the day for a workout.

“I wanted to get ready and start the second half strong,” said Cabrera, who had 119 hits in the first half.

Bochy jokingly asked Cabrera if he could drive the car that you get when you’re named MVP. Said Cabrera: “Once, around the block.”

Also, as many of you surely noticed, Sandoval doesn’t have a triple yet for the Giants. “I don’t know why he’s been holding back on us,” Bochy joked.

— Bochy revealed the rest of the order of the second half rotation: Barry Zito and Ryan Vogelsong will follow Madison Bumgarner, Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain. Bochy said he put Zito between Cain and Vogelsong because he wanted to split up the rotation’s two left-handers.

— Bochy said he expects the Giants to be battling the Dodgers and Diamondbacks for the next two months. “It’s going to be a tight race,” he said.

I talked to a few players about this and they feel the same way.

“We got the time we needed,” Angel Pagan said. “It’s time to come back strong. We’re right in it.”

Alex Pavlovic

Post navigation

Lincecum has the worst ERA+ since 1901 for pitchers with greater than 95 innings, I believe was the cutoff. Posted this earlier from the WSJ sidebar that reported this today, but either no one found it interesting or it was lost in the 650-post thread.

Damn. When Tim’s bullpen sessions are solid and he’s throwing filthy pitches and nailing the location, what’s getting in the way of pitching like this in games? Performance anxiety? I just don’t get it.

Thanks, Alex, for watching his bullpen session and reporting back.

Carolyn

Alex, has anyone broached the idea of having Tim visit a sports psychologist?

m34josh

Huff daddy can’t even hit 19 year olds. Why would they activate him? Time to hang em up big guy!

linedrivehitter

dgg there are a lot of basketball players that can hit 3 pointers all afternoon long until the game starts. Ditto with bullpen pitchers. It’s a lot different with a dangerous batter at the plate and you are throwing 7 mph slower than you used to. We need a Lincecum Whisperer to straighten out Timmy’s mind.

Lefty

Clutch: I was being smart-alecky about Brown. I know the player development people are watching him carefully. I’m just excited that he’s back on track and really hoping he has a serious shot at a September call-up and a chance to make the team in 2013.

Injuries: Runzler is back. He’s been pitching for Fresno for several weeks–not especially well, but apparently healthy. He also just bought his wife a new SUV (per her Twitter)! Surkamp has not thrown a pitch since March and has not made progress. Kieschnick broke his shoulder and is not expected back until August. Too bad.

Tommy Joseph is looking good in AA–hitting for some power and an average of .250. Also throwing out nearly 50% of would-be base stealers on the season. He appears to be the real deal and could either be a trade chip himself or make Hector one within the next year.

I wonder who they’ll get rid of when Huff is ready–do they send Christian down? DFA Burriss? Trade Nate? Should be interesting.

Nate for Colon? Yes, please. But as someone said, the A’s already have good outfielders (Reddick, Coco, Cespedes, Seth Smith as a fourth), so why would they need Nate?

South City Jim

The real test will be when Altuve reaches base and starts stealing bases. If his stuff’s filthy then, then he’s back.

Matthew

avwh – I read that this AM, but I don’t know what the heck ERA+ means….I expect Tim to right the ship. Of course, I’ve seen how off he is and the resulting stats, and perhaps my Giants viewing glasses are exceptional in their rose coloring, but that dude also was saddled with incredibly bad luck in the first half.

avwh

Matthew:

ERA+ is a normalized ERA. It adjusts a pitcher’s earned run average (ERA) according to the pitcher’s ballpark (in case the ballpark favors batters or pitchers) and the ERA of the pitcher’s league. Average ERA+ is set to be 100; a score above 100 indicates that the pitcher performed better than average, below 100 indicates worse than average.

Lincecum has an ERA+ of 51.

Dirty Al

Thanks Alex. Nice to have you back.

We can all rest easy now. Huff is on the way.

Foothills Ryan

Nate for Colon is good for a chuckle. I don’t think Oakland is a good match for Nate. They can do better for cheaper. I’m thinking Cincinnatti, San Diego, Kansas City…

Foothills Ryan

beg the question?

is that the appropriate usage. Dr. Lefty??

South City Jim

I got one. Nate and Timmy to Cinci for Mike Leake. When Leake doesn’t pitch, he plays 1B and bats third.

Foothills Ryan

google it. is that a hoax, or does beg the question really mean to burn with curiosity.

stickman

If Huff is one for eight at San Jose so far his return might be a bit later than Bochy hopes.

Lefty: Thanks for the updates on the injuries. I wonder if anyone in the organization is talking about Surkamp’s situation. It all seems rather opaque to me.

Of course Timmy needs to see a sports psychologist ~ probably a hypnotist as well. Sometimes they can do amazing things ~ at least according to what i have witnessed.

Foothills Ryan

Lincecum & sports psychologist is probably in the works. Nothing to lose on that front.

AVWH,

I think the only appropriate response to that stat is speechlessness.

Jason T.

Huff is coming back? Great. Just what Bochy needs. Another way to take starts away from #9. He can start the Buster/Aubrey/Brandon platoon.

CaGrown

Like Sabean laughed about sending Timmy down to the PCL because the PCL hitters just tee up against major league pitchers, the same is true about those Single A pitchers with Huff. Now I know other major leaguers go to Single A and hit .400, but, boy, they see Huff, and those pitchers just line up to get him out.
1 for 8–we should all laugh like Sabean, and keep laughing, because that just might have been Huff’s hot streak.

South City Jim

Stickman. several weeks ago I heard a report that the Giants were opting against season ending surgery for Surkamp and shutting him down indefinitely. I’m not sure if it’s his shoulder or elbow but I doubt you’ll see him pitch this season in a competitive game. Might start throwing off flat ground before the end of the season, but not much more. He was placed on the 60-day disabled list to clear up a spot on the 40-man roster.

South City Jim

I thought Sabean’s comments were interesting considering that last season Zito threw a 2-hit complete game shut out in a PCL game. Maybe they can’t hit curve balls. In any event, we’ll see what Timmy has Saturday night.

Lefty

Foothills: No, that is not a correct use of “beg the question.” Hardly anyone gets that right. However, if enough people start using “beg the question” to mean “raise the question” (which is how Alex used it and how people typically use it), it may become “correct” by virtue of having been co-opted by enough speakers of the language. Language is a changing, breathing organism, and meanings/usages do evolve over time.

Stickman: I agree on Surkamp and wonder why there hasn’t been more information or why he hasn’t had surgery…seems like a pretty important tidbit, given that he was THE backup plan going into spring training.

Foothills Ryan

Sounds like Surkamp should have gone under for the knife in April.

Oh well. Who needs starting depth anyhow?

—

Lincecum and Nate to Cinci might have some legs if Bronson Arroyo is heading back our way. Kung Fu Panda at third and Kung Fu pitcher on the hill.

Foothills Ryan

Great point Lefty. I think that has already occurred. That’s how people use the term anyhow. When was the last time somebody used it correctly while referring to a “logical fallacy due to assumption error”? It has pretty much come to mean what it sounds like it means.

Nameless bob

Isnt “beg the question” a practice of assuming the argument being made has already been proven as part of the argument made?

Lefty

I LOVE that Melky came to today’s workout. Pablo: just follow Melky around and do what he does. Melky was a bad boy like you when he was your age, and now he’s a stud–about to be a very RICH stud. And he has Melkmen and MelkMaids, and those are cooler than panda hats.

I have a birthday coming up, and I’m thinking Mr. Lefty needs to get me a MelkMaid outfit.

After thinking about it some more, I’m glad they left Zito #4 and Vogey #5. Hard to run into three pitchers more diverse than Cain > Zito > Vogey. If they switched them, then you get Cain and Vogey, fairly similar, back to back, followed by the two lefties. Better to mix things up.

Slide Dog

[Homer Simpson voice] mmmm … Lefty … Melkmaid outfit … uuuuuhhhhh

Can we expect a new avatar?

SurfCity

Lefty, never misunderestimate the process by which word usage develops 🙂

GideonTownsend

Gregor Blanco is my favorite Giant!

rocktavia

Trade Tim? Are you guys crazy?

Slide Dog

My favorite mal-aprop is ‘mute point’ … over time the moot-to-mute ratio has continued to fall, to the point where I don’t remember the last time I’ve heard some actually say ‘it’s a moot point’. Radio jocks are particularly bad abusers of the mute point.

jerseygiant

After Houston at home, it’s another trip east and more hot humid weather in Atlanta and Philly. No excuses this time. Timmy’s 2nd start of 2nd half should be Friday night against Phillies. If he pitches well Saturday. Go, Giants!

hwighting

if huff steals any of belts ABs I will angery. we don’t owe him anything except a big fat check. you can throw veteran loyalty out the window with huff.

Livefree

Aug 1 2010 is when Huff’s performance began dramatically deteriorating … that means we’re coming up on 2 years of nonproduction. There is NO reason to think he can help. …. There also is no reason to think Bochy knows he cant help. Bochy played Guillen every day.

Luke mcwarmsky

I wonder if Timmy’s or Huff’s cliff dives have anything to do with substance abuse?

ODB

If Huff is available, that idiot Bochy will start him.

dunUdirty

Lincecum had better pull his stuff together. Even if he finishes with a sub .150 record it would STILL be hard justifying selecting Zito over him in a four man rotation for the playoffs.

Stating the obvious, but if he has two consecutive (or 2 of 3) 2&1/3 inning +5 ER starts we’re going to see penny…who will give us 3&1/3 solid inning start with 2+ER which will be enough to make us all crazy enough to say that “salty from
Clovis” has even a reasonable thought rolling around in his “baseballess” mind.

I know Huff has sucked since then, but don’t discredit him completely.

We wouldn’t have won the World Series, let alone the NLDS if it weren’t for him. So just remember that please.

However, I’m not interested in him taking Belt’s spot at all. Pinch hitter and an off-day-for-Belt-giver. That’s what his role should be from here on out.

totalfan62

Yes indeed. “Mute” instead of “moot” always bothers me as well.

Lefty: good one on the Melk Maids costume. I’m going to be chuckling all day at that line!

On Timmy: we’re touching on some good points here. Another bad start —or even a good at home vs. Houston then a stinker in Philly–and he should go on the 15-day DL for a complete physical/mental examination. Nutrition and diet, eliminate ALL drugs (alcohol, tobacco, marijuana or other recreational), and focus on body and mind being completely healthy. Something is definitely wrong, and it does not appear to be physical or mechanical. Also, the Giants and their medical staff should be driving this process, not Timmy’s dad.

Woj

Absolutely wonderful news that Timmy’s rotation spot is hanging by the thread. This is long overdue. By any measure Timmy has been a 1 man party-killer in 2012. I have had tickets to Saturday’s game for a long time and was not happy when I found out Timmy is going to be pitching in that game. I can’t watch all the carnage that usually occurs when Tim pitches on TV. Saturday I’ll see what kind of crooked #s go up for the Astros first-hand.

Note to Daddy Lincecum: Your son is getting paid handsomely by the Giants for prior success. You are correct, SF doesn’t win the WS without him in 2010. But equally true is that he is the worst starter in the NL halfway through THIS season and SF won’t win the division or make the playoffs lugging around his stink-e-tude every 5th game going forward.

The Oracle

What a HUGE relief that Aubrey Huff will be back soon. We are saved.

Woj

Huff should just rehab in Scottsdale with Tin Man Fat Paycheck Collecting Freddy Sanchez. That way we’ll know he is truly done for this season.
Proposed AZ rehab program for Huff:
925am – wake up, clear empty beer cans off closest dresser, check to see if any MLB groupie ended up in bed, if so, time for her to go.
930am – get breakfast served to him by Mrs. Sanchez’ nanny
10am – go back to sleep
1045am – wake up, call Brian Sabean & Bochy tell them ‘everything is on schedule for my rehab’
11am – turn on Spike TV and watch it with Freddy
noon- go to Bank – cash weekly paycheck
1230 – find a good Mexican place, pick up some grub for Sanchez and himself
1pm – swimming in Freddy’s huge pool and lunch
2pm – find out when Giants are playing that day on TV. If game has started, get onto Internet to find out what happened in first 3 innings.
230pm – post blogs under mysterious names stating I(Huff) should be playing over BB9 because Giants need a vet presence. Remind fans of what I did during 2010.

Sound good?

pacman68

Second half starting tonight. Time to start fresh.

GO GIANTS.

Lefty

Livefree and Crez: You’re both right on Huff. His numbers did begin to slide in Aug. 2010, and he’s never been good since. He was OK, not amazing overall (numbers-wise) in the postseason: .268/.339/.357/.696 with 1 HR, 8 RBI, 5 BB, and 2 doubles.
I do remember several huge hits, though:

–game-tying single in Game 3 of NLDS (9th inning)
–singled and scored winning run in Game 4 of NLCS (9th inning)
–knocked in first run and scored tying run in Game 6 of NLCS (3rd inning)
–hit two-run homer in Game 4 of WS to start the scoring in a 4-0 victory (3rd inning)

We all remember his dramatic sacrifice bunt in Game 5 of the WS–but it turned out not to be significant because Renteria hit a homer anyway.

He definitely pulled his weight then, and thanks for the memories–really. As for now, I’m not quite clear on why anyone thinks he can “help.” There is all of 2011 and the first part of 2012 to suggest otherwise. Going 1-8 in rehab games in single A is not exactly raking, either.

dgg

Matthew,

We may be looking at things through the same rosy view, but I always read your thoughtful posts, which often stand out as an island in a sea of negativity. They’re easy to find because of your avatar.

Foothills Ryan

Nameless Bob,

Great job on articulating “bet the question”. I think the point has been sufficiently hammered home for dear Alex and his droogs…

Hurray, the second half starts today. A new page for everyone even dear Tiny Tim. Marty Lurie was pissed when callers kept calling him ‘Timmy’. Well he needs to eat and look like a man and pitch like one or such monikers will stick. It’s the second half and the KNBR astrologer’s prediction will come to fruition. He’ll come out of this alive and well.

And dear Lefty will be watching the games with here Melk-maid outfit that her hubby got for her. Sounds like a gift for him as well.

What the Astros have to look forward to in the second half. Take heart giants fans, it could be worse, a lot worse!

michael

Crez

Nice post, and I agree. However, any mention of Huff is like red meat to so many on here who enjoy tearing him to pieces. If you want to list all the reasons as Lefty did, sure it can support cutting him. However, I personally have been quite pleased with the support the Giants have shown. Huff has been a different person than Rowand and Tejada. He has been a team player, and thus the team and FO have been supportive. I see his situation more as Burrell last year and even DeRosa. He has agreed to go to San Jose, no matter the results, but a lot of 10 year vets would refuse to do that. He genuinely seems to want to stay with the team and try to contribute. I don’t see giving him a chance to fill in on occasion and pinch hit from the end of the bench as the end of the world. Most here say he has used up the good will from the World Series, I personally feel he has plenty left. 7 weeks till the September roster expansion. That doesn’t seem too long.

Slide Dog

Surprised that the Astros might consider trading altuve, they have a surplus there with a prospect waiting in the wings according to the chronicle. Interesting … Very interesting.

Bud

Why can’t Huff stay on rehab assignment until he is hitting over .300 in the minors? As others have said, the danger of having Huff on the active roster is that Bochy will actually want to put him in the lineup. Even worse, you KNOW if the Giants are in the playoffs, Bochy will have at least one game in which Huff will get an unexpected start based on a Bochy hunch that he needs his experience and a “veteran bat” in the lineup.

Kyle Perizi

If Huff’s domestic situation has been resolved in terms acceptable for his own psyche then it’s not out of the realm of possibilities that he could return to something close to his 2010 productivity. What a boost that would be. TL is another story.

Jay

That begs the question, would the White take Lincecum for Rios today?

Jay

White Sox

michael

Kyle

Hear Huff’s wife and he are working on their marriage, and she has been with him in San Francisco.

Expat

At this point I wouldn’t mind seeing the a trade for Francoeur (but the Royals probably won’t return any Sabean phone calls after J Sanchez for Melky). The Royals get salary relief and Nate and the Giants get a potential power bat who can compete for Blanco and Pagan starts. Maybe the guy is fading but he’s only 28 and he looked really good just a couple years ago.

3rd king

I cant beleive we start the second half talking about two guys whose tenure as Giants are almost over.

Time to move on. Go Giants

totalfan62

Woj says: July 13th, 2012 at 5:22 am….

——————————————————————-

I guess you think this sarcastic, snarky post is humorous and should be shared with us. I think it’s awful, and I would never make statements like this about our players. Your comments are simply disgusting.

Am I disappointed in Huff? Without a doubt, just like most every Giants fan. Am I disappointed that Freddie Sanchez couldn’t recuperate and won’t play for us this year? Again, without a doubt and again like most every Giants fan.

That being said, your slanderous and degrading comments on Huff are unacceptable. Although he has “crashed and burned” (Sabean’s words), he has continued to work at rehab and has been a positive influence around our team. Whatever personal struggles he has are his business and should not be fodder for your lame attempts at humor.

Freddie Sanchez sacrificed his body in order to stay in the lineup in 2010, and made major contributions to our WS championship. He suffered a significant injuy on that play in June 2011, underwent another surgery and grueling rehabilitation. He did everything in his power to get back to playing condition. Everything we could expect of him and more. Your putdowns and inflammatory comments are way out of line.

If this is all you can contribute to Giants Extra, I suggest you take your act to McCovey Chronicles (they love that type of nonsense) or some other blog where similar narrow minded cretins share their particular type of vitriol. We sure don’t need or want it here.

Foothills Ryan

It begs the question; Woj is a bad commenter because he is a cretin.

Is that the correct usage?

michael

Total Fan 62

Well said on both issues!!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

dj

>>>Everything was down, everything was moving?

This can be a problem. Lincecum needs to throw good strikes. Movement is good but no control can be deadly.

Adam

Strictly speaking, it should be “it raises the question” but I’ve given up on that particular battle. Internet culture has not been a friend to prescriptivists…current cringe-worthy faves are “for all intensive purposes,” “towing the line,” “hone in on,” and “I would/could/should of done ___”

I love Krukow, but he’s a great one for malapropism as well:
“He spinned it right out of here”
“Cain has been the benefactor of strong hitting today by the bottom of the Giants order”
“Smoked down the line and Huff had none chance!”

Michael@754 = ++++++++++ TotalFan=+++++++ SOME FANS don’t get the process = players have terrible moments, seasons, outings, games and are/would be the first to mention how deplorable their results appear. People like myself who seemingly want 17 obliterated should ask themselves why his teammmates consider him a necessary teammate moving forward. Put away the past, he’s returning to the club.

Slide Dog

Since the board seems to be in a collection ‘dream state’, awaiting tonight’s game, here’s a second half reverie.

Huff and Lincecum simultaneously ‘snap-out-of-it’, amazingly transforming themselves into Cy Young and MVP candidates. They lead the team to a 100 win season, Belt posts > 1.000 OPS and Blanco OBP > .400.

… it was a good bottle of Cabernet for me … can you ask for that as alternative medicine in the hospital? Hope you’re out of there dude, nothing good happens when you hang around those places more than a couple of days.

Expat

Krukow had the best line I’ve heard all year when he was talking this morning on Murph and Mac about the Pablo situation and how these guys need to handle themselves on and off the field:

“this is no longer a frat party…”

That should be posted up in the Giants clubhouse

Lefty

Expat: Agreed on Krukow; I heard that, too, and I thought it was extremely well said. I hope this little escapade with the police, juxtaposed with a great All-Star experience, is Pablo’s wake-up call (you almost threw it away but you have lots of potential).

“And he has a quick 0-2.” They started saying this (mainly Kuip) a year or so ago. 0-2 is, by definition, TWO pitches, right? So what would a “slow 0-2” look like? I think what he really means is “a quick two strikes” (it could take a number of pitches to get there)–but “a quick 0-2” makes NO sense.

Then, a week or so ago, I heard Kuip say “a quick 0-1.” And I let out a primal scream like the Mama Bear in “Brave.”

For those who know what I mean, why bring up something so obvious (apologies to anybody who personalizes this) but one may know that a quick 0-2 or a quick 0-1 – paints a picture that is clear as day, although I must admit Ken Harrelson takes things to the extreme.

If a Pitcher walks the “bags-drunk” with zero outs and the 4th batter of the inning falls behind Oh and One or “takes the first pitch for strike one and the second pitch for strike two” = the time frame can seem awfully QUICK. The phrase has nothing to do with “quickly” as pertains to real life.

When us kids rode in our parents back seat station wagons on the way to vacation = it took “forever” in our minds-eye to get their = Tahoe or Disneyland or Ben Lomand = but the same ride home / 6 days before school started (ugh) seemed like it took MUCH less time.

JustMyThreeCents…

ClutchUp

And … Bill King, the renaissance announcer was a huge reader and ballet lover and somehow fit in his love for Russian History. Apparently he sailed off solo many times on long trips during off seasons of his various three sport announcing gigs.

IMO Bill had a word picture vocab that has never been equalled especially in all three sports ….

King, dead at 78 deserves MORE recognition IMO. I regret not listening to enough A’s games when He and Lon Simmons were the lead guys.

Kings’ Tributes @ his memorial still give me goose bumps (chicken-skin) and his “three rules” in broadcasting should make Professor-Lefty smile.

Maybe a fan refocus would be good too. In the greater scheme of things, the only thing, IMO, that effects the outcome of this season is Lincecum or whomever the 5th arm turns out to be. Not Huff, not Sandoval, not Belt, just pitching, as ever it always has been. Lincecum fixes his problems, we walk away with it. Penny tries to plug the gap Lincecum would leave, it’s a close thing (very close), Penny or a surrogate fails to step forward we’re toast. No bat in creation is going to us 5-7 WARP in a half season, as Lincecum will.

During the AAA all star game Tom Seaver said a pitcher’s best friend is strike 1. Timmy needs to get the first pitch to each batter over for strike 1 and then use the speciality pitches to get the hitter out. He needs to throw the speciality pitches so they look like a strike. Too often they are easily seen as a ball and taken. He has the stuff, he just needs to command it.

No one wants to go to plan B but the team is bigger than just Timmy.

Expat

I like the thread, Lefty. Language to the broadcaster is like hitting to the position player, so it’s fun to analyze. I don’t have a problem with certain malapropisms, grammatical errors, etc. by broadcasters if they do it well. Like George Brett’s or Ichiro’s ugly swings – they work so they’re beautiful. Color guys get a lot of slack in the language department but they have to bring personality and insight.

Take Greg Papa’s baseball’s announcing – he didn’t bug me because of language per se (I don’t recall them ever butchering the language) but his homogenous stream of speaking was the problem.

ClutchUp

If ya’ll retake the quiz = you NOW get a letter grade. Occupy Giants Extra = People have been heard 🙂

Angry Dan

“HEIGHTH”

Bapah

Footy, your question “Woj is a bad commenter because he is a cretin.” begs the question, “Why does a being a cretin necessarily make one a bad commenter?” ( It doesn’t look like that lately.)

South City Jim

Channel, can’t disagree with anything you’ve said in your 11:50 am post, Lincecum and Zito are key. But the team needs to hit with RISP. Last year there were four starters with sub 3.00 ERAs after the break and the team stunk. No runs, no wins.

ClutchUp

* % grade *

Jstreet

Clemente, I hate to be a sycophant, but you constantly make the most sense, and show me new (and old) ideas more consistently than anyone here. And you generally do it without fanfare or angst. ClutchUp might be the Mayor of the blog, Lefty the brains (and passion), and others are the guts, lotta guts. But you Mr. Channel are much appreciated. Keep typing. I will keep reading.

Bay area rogue

The Rogue must laugh at the “trade timmy” talk. To early for panic chatter. Bochy is enabling this “Ace” too long. No more excuses or mothering. He is the worst starter in MLB. Sit him down and piss him off. Make him appreciate what it is to be a ‘gigante’. The rules are the same for everybody. Perform or sit. Bochy and fat Sabean need to act like men and stop worrying about a grown man’s feelings.

yeah, but in the end, they hit well enough to walk away with the NL West if they got the pitching they’ve had in any of the last 3 years.

Foothills Ryan

CC,

that chat doesn’t look that fun. how young are the participants?

Will the second half start already?

I hear the Astros are good team to throw a no-hitter against. And put up 10 runs. Good way to start the second half. Just win baby, or it’s kingdom come.

Foothills Ryan

Bapah,

Sounds like you are using the Socratic method instead.

Foothills Ryan

If the Giants score runs in the second half, it will take a lot of pressure off Zito and Lincecum. All members of the team have to carry the load. And that includes Nate Schierholtz, Gregor Blanco, Sandoval, Arias, Pagan, Belt…

Lefty

Lotta “mid-season reports” this week. Here is an excerpt from Marcos Breton in the Sac Bee this morning:

“…the goal is to hoist the trophy again. It’s what they begin chasing tonight, though it won’t happen with abysmal situational hitting, shaky defense, blown saves and Lincecum as a shell of himself.”

Well, you when you put it THAT way…I guess a half-game out and tied for the wild card is pretty good…

Agree with Channel, although his intellect_Power sometimes leaves me at the loading dock but he makes me “tune in” and read and listen, hoping if you will that I can decipher all that he shares with us.

That leaves me (sometimes) on the outside looking in. I enjoy everyone who (seemingly) stays balanced and on point, meaning that the season ends closer to christmas than it does when it started.

I’ve allowed myself to coach “out-of-balance” where I got to upbeat too soon or got to down – too soon and for me personally I was fortunate to have men (and women) in my life who literally or symbolically put their arm around me and steered me in a better direction.

My “other” favorites are: TotalFan62 – Dinero – JD4SF – Expat – Mavo, Bapah, Al Oha and Anti-Lasorda … who NEEDS to get his fanny in her and play catch up = 😀

Lefty

The only thing worse than the All-Star Break is the (shudder) off-season. Four days with no meaningful baseball is just no fun.

2holehitting

Is adjsuted ERA historical or seasonal? What is the formula used?

Would it not be a way to penalize good pitchers on a good pitching team or in a good pitching division or playing against poor offensive teams?

If you have excellent pitching, then runs scored will always be down. If you play in a division that has had historically decent pitching, then the ERA in your park would be historically lower compared to peer parks.

I seem to remember the Giants shutdown that vaunted hitting team in Texas as well.

in way of confession, I like Ratto…he serves a purpose in an otherwise bland, kissup, phony media world. I was impressed at how well he worked with Kozimor on Chron Live. I asked him about it, and after 2-3 questions, he said scr*w Kozimore. So I finally asked him about that ‘intimate’ relationship with Ratface (Kozimor), but the censors trapped it. Sort of an experiment, but I suspect a Kozimor/Ratto pairing may be in the offing.

I have to apologize for starting the trade Timmy talk on this thread. I was half joking. I do believe that Nate is a perfect fit for Cinci but can’t think of anyone on that team we want except for starting pitching, so I threw Timmy in the mix. Makes no sense trading him when his value is so far below his potential and track record. Of course, if he continues pitching like this into next year, then there is no trade value.

South City Jim

Of course we’d love Joey Votto, Brandon Phillips or Drew Stubbs but I mean within reason.

would they even consider a trade of Nate with Blanco back on the bubble?

South City Jim

Maybe not. If Blanco continues to struggle, maybe we end up with a Christian / Schierholz platoon.

ClutchUp

“Good afternoon all you Giant Fans: “Your mission should you decide to accept it is to answer the 5 following questions without using “artificial-non-brain recall methods”.

As always, should you or any of your Giants Extra Teammates be caught or killed, this “Blog” will disavow any knowledge of your intentions.

This questionnaire will self-destruct by the Top of 5th inning tonight, especially if we are down 2-1, even though MadBum has 8 strikeouts and we still have 15 outs to go. 🙄

Pop Quiz: 5 questions:
(1) Which SF Giant hit the 10,000th home run in Giants history?

(2) Which high flying teammate came to Will’s defense in the SL “brawl?”

(3) Which short-time SF Giant outfielder caught a fly ball out, tripping on the RF Bullpen mound while the winning run tagged-up and scored from third?

(4) Which one of these Hall of Famers also played for the Giants: Steve Carlton, Duke Snyder or Warren Spahn?

(5) September 18th 1997, Which Fodger vs. Rod Beck was on base and seemingly might have scored but was held up at third base … before Shooter struck out Todd Zeile and induced Eddie Murray to hit into a Kent to Johnson to Snow DP?

South City Jim

I’m a huge Marty Lurie guy, love his pre/post game shows but he can’t possibly think the Diamondbacks would consider trading Upton before the deadline? I couldn’t believe he was even giving that lip service last night on KNBR. C’mon Marty.

Matthew

CU, I feel left out… Hopefully as a newcomer you can vote me ROY,though age restrictions may bite me.

Clutch #106, I think (1) was Ernest Riles and he also stole the 10,000 base, hence the line “the only person in the 10,000 / 10,000 club”. The only other one I know is (4) was Carlton and he was terrible for us.

WoW = Answer to Number 5 = Lives in Infamy … was involved w/Clemens in an on field incident.

I tried kissing the Dodgers third base coach after the game but security led me away … Actually with NO outs = it WAS the correct move since this “playa” ran like a piano ….

Matthew

“I’d like to thank my blog mates, who I couldn’t have done this without. The managers… My syntax coach, Lefty.. My strategist, Clutch Up… My double play partner, dgg. Angels fly because they can’t take the train…”

Matthew

Oh, it’s the 57 th round phenom, Piazza Pie! Gotcha…

ClutchUp

SSF = I heard the Godfather interview w/Marty – I didn’t get that take? I heard him say to Woodson = Nobody trades within division and what I really took away was: “If ARZ are shopping him at the Jul 31st deadline = then something is terribly wrong with the Team/Chemistry”…

I would suspect he is self taught, since he’s trained as a historian. I’d go out and grab someone in economics out of Cal. It does explain Boras scaring the heck out of them at the negotiating table, though. It’s like bringing a knife to a gun fight, IMO. They ought to go full geek and go grab Bradley Woodrum out of Chicago, if his wife will let him leave Chinatown, there. It might come down to almond cookie competition with a good Chinese bakery here.

Matthew

Whoops on 4…. Thought it was the old’ nasty…. Was it Spahn at the end of his gig? On #2 I remember the interview after with BB which he said ” you can by $1,100 Italian suits but you can’t buy class”…. ZING! So, not sure who , but my second guess was Candy Man

South City Jim

Team chemistry can’t be that bad. I don’t buy it and Woodson wasn’t buying it either. Gibson is old school, he doesn’t baby players so the appearance of clubhouse issues are easily perceived. Similar to when Frank Robinson managed the Giants. Gibson sat Collmentor’s butt down after 4 or 5 starts. You think Timmy would have made 18 first half starts pitching like he did if he was with Arizona? I think not. Now, if they trade Upton before the deadline, I’ll be the first one on this blog admitting I was wrong. 🙂

South City Jim says: July 13th, 2012 at 1:37 pm
Clutch, #4 can’t be wrong. I personally saw Carlton pitch for the Giants. Maybe there’s more than one correct answer but Carlton was a Giant.

SSF: I did not say you were wrong = I said the Q was answered “incorrectly” … 😀

All three played for the SF Giants ….

ClutchUp

South City Jim says: July 13th, 2012 at 1:35 pm

Agreed Jim: Both Upton rumors are just rumors. All of internet baseball went into seizures with the four days off.

BJ and Justin are important factors to their respective teams.

Matthew

I’m getting the sweats reminiscent of HS days when quizzes had those tricky questions… Thanks for a stress free Friday afternoon, Clutch

ClutchUp

Candy Man is correct.

South City Jim

Okay, trick question.

By the way, yesterday I’m driving to work and Murphy is talking about the famous emery board incident with Houston and the Giants in 1986/7 time frame and he keeps saying it’s Joe Niekro. I seem to recall it was Mike Scott. Which one was it?

Matthew

So that means , on the retake, I’m 4 2/3 for 5… By my math, that’s 93.3%… Not quite my score on the (easier) Merc quiz.

Do some more, Teach…er, Coach….

South City Jim

When it comes to Giants’ nostalgia, I’m better at remembering the bad things, like who started game 162 of 1993, who started game 7 in 2002 WS, who dropped the fly ball in 2003, etc. etc. etc.

“Good afternoon all you Giant Fans: “Your mission should you decide to accept it is to answer the 5 following questions without using artificial-non-brain recall methods. As always, should you or any of your Giants Extra Teammates be caught or killed, this “Blog” will disavow any knowledge of your intentions. This questionnaire will self-destruct by the Top of 5th inning tonight, especially if we are down 2-1, even though MadBum has 8 strikeouts and we still have 15 outs to go…

Part Two Pop Quiz: 5 questions:

(1) What did Former Giant Mike Ivie have in common with Aubrey Huff?

(2) What former Giant and Dodger was also a SF Giants General Manager?

(3) Which Giants who became a Dodger “hurt” you the most? No real wrong answer!

(4) Name your favorite Giant the year (2000) they opened PacBell — not named Bonds or Kent.

(5) Describe the coldest game you attended at Candlestick.

ClutchUp

Channel … you … posted which link awhile ago? 🙁

totalfan62

Answer to Clutch’s question #4…ALL OF THEM. All three of these Hall of Fame players played for the Giants at the end of their careers. I think the Giants might have been the last team in the long careers of Snider and Spahn. We let Carlton go and he then went to either Minnesota or Cleveland. I’ll look it up and get back.

the one to Jweekly. A great place for an intresting read about many topics.

South City Jim

Clutch #138:

(1) mental disorders
(2) don’t know
(3) Jason Schmidt – can’t say his quick demise bothered me any
(4) Kirk Reuter
(5) Don’t know the date but it was in 1988 against the Montreal Expos, night game, and it was the game that Jeffrey Leonard hurt his wrist coming in for a line drive…essentially ending his Giants’ career. It was brutal. Somehow I lasted to about the 7th inning and left…couldn’t take it any more.

5) I have chosen to forget all the cold night games at the ‘Stick. Weren’t that many for me (we consciously chose day games when possible), and they’ve been obliterated.

ClutchUp

SSF Jim: All us Giant Fans have that affliction.

Salomon Torres = Should have been Dave Burba

Livan = Should have been Woody

Jose Cruz Jr: Drops a routine fly ball in the eleventh inning of game 3 of the NLDS against the Fish – starting a Fish rally; Fish go ahead 2 games to 1, took a lead in the series which they never relinquished….SF declines option on Cruz Jr.

Kuiper was doing the play-by-play and Krukow was doing color commentary. Kuiper first says: “Camps under and catches it — NO he dropped it; Krukow says, “unbelievable” in the background.

pacman68

If Hector is catching Timmy tonight. The second half will look like this.

— Bochy believes Huff will be the bat off the bench. He won’t!
— Bochy believes Pagan is a good center fielder. He isn’t!
— Bochy believes the Belt should bat 7th. He shouldn’t!
— Bochy believes that Crawford will come around. He won’t!

Giants will miss the playoffs.

3 THINGS THAT NEED TO CHANGE FOR GIANTS TO MAKE PLAYOFFS.

— Tim needs to be Tim.
— Giants need to get Broxton of a closer.
— Giants need to get Willingham and have Pagan and Blanco split time in outfield.

If none of those three happen. No playoffs.

South City Jim

Clutch,

When Jose Cruz dropped that ball, I thought it was an illusion. I literally had to watch the replay to actually believe what I had seen. Sadly, he played the best pre-Nate “Pac Bell” RF that season but he’ll always be remembered, at least by me, for dropping that ball. 🙁

totalfan62

South City Jim: I think your Expos/Giants game was Friday May 20, 1988. Expos were in town twice each year at that time, and Leonard was traded for Riles before their second visit to the ‘Stick. Those three games (Fri-Sat-Sun) were night-day-day, so must have been that game. Giants won 11-2, Leonard played the entire game, LaCoss pitched seven innings and got the W. Sound familiar?

South City Jim

totalfian62, the timing sounds right, but Leonard hurt his wrist pretty bad, I don’t think he stayed in the game. Maybe it wasn’t the Expos…that was my recollection but perhaps I’m wrong.

Since we’re digressing and reminiscing (and anxiously awaiting tonight’s game), and since Clutch mentioned Mike Ivie, gotta share this story. Padres draft Ivie, a hotshot high school catcher out of the Atlanta area. They assign him to Lodi in the California League, and his first game is against the Stockton Ports, my hometown minor league team.

My buddies and I had to get an up-close look at the bonus baby, so we go down to the seats by the bullpen. Ivie is catching the starting pitcher who’s warming up, with another player simulating a hitter in the righty batter’s box. Ivie is telling this other player how much he hates catching, how much he misses Georgia and his family, and generally whining about everything. We were flabbergasted, and thought he’d never make the majors.

2. Rest in Peace Tom Haller contracted the West Nile virus during a trip to Colorado and died after LONG battle. Brother Bill was MLB Umpire who was involved in the famous You Tube confontation with Earl Weaver.

3. From Giant to Dodger: Haller (first one hurts) Brett Butler
4. Snow. Close 2nd Aurilia
5. Too many but just one. So Foggy and Cold that Willie Montanez argued a called third strike in the B1st. Willie was a warm weather afficianado.

We sat in Section 9 – Family and Friends Section and early on the Cepeda, Alou, Pagan wives would arrive in Evening dresses with jewelry and Fur Stoles. My brother and I and friends were in sleeping bags.

ClutchUp

Thanks Pac. Where did Slash/78 morph to? Also the Bovine dropped to take the quiz ….

ClutchUp

Pacman: Lots of pent up emotion. How about some Mint Julips, Red Martini’s and Gator Water to soothe your soul?

Woj

@totalfan62
Hey man, it is a free country and I’ll make whatever blog posts I darn care to make. If the merc wants to edit me out so be it. You are free to post yours and I’ll simply skip over them. I urge you to do the same with mine.

Totally disagree with about everything YOU post. Really quick.
Resigning Huff has been a disaster. He was BAD last year and even worse this year. A total utter waste of $20M+ and he stunted Belt’s development to boot.

On Freddy – Another utter bust. Dude was damaged goods when Giants got him and he’s cashed more paychecks than played games the last year. Fact!

My post was humorous and should be read in that light. If you can’t handle being critical of Giants players when warranted than be Krukow’s guest at Homer-ville and excuse yourself of objectivity.

I think right now Freddie Sanchez has decided to NOT finish recuperating so he can sign another contract. Better for $$ to stay on the sidelines than get back and can’t produce. His injury as judged by docs was WAY less severe than Posey’s and Posey made it back on time and has been a superb all star and leader. Freddy? Not so much.

Stop it with your slanderous and degrading dribble. You don’t judge squat. on Huff are unacceptable. Huff went AWOL on the TEAM. Again, bolted from the team flew out of NY and send a friggin text to his boss after departing. All facts. If THAT is a positive influence on the team I’d hate to see what a negative influence is.

There’s also an A’s trivia quiz on their home page of SJMN (thanks Carl Steward for the heads up). 15 questions, same as Giants one. I’m MUCH more of a Giants fan, but back in the day followed both teams. Take the quiz and see how you do. I got 13 of 15, and there’s a couple of good ones. It’s worth a look if you’re a Bay Area baseball fan.

Lefty

Clutch:

Ivie/Huff: I was going to say LH first basemen, but yours is more interesting
2000 Giants: Tie between Burks & Aurilia–I loved Aurilia, still do
Dodger Heartbreak: Jeff Kent–still love him, too
Coldest Game: May 16, 2012 at AT & T! (I know you said Candlestick, but yikes, that was cold, and a very vivid recent memory.)

First Quiz: I knew all three of Carlton, Spahn, & Snider had been on the Giants, but I vaguely thought Snider had refused to play for them after being traded–or maybe I’m thinking of Jackie Robinson?

ClutchUp

Woj – Sorry Sir – But most if not all agree with TotalFan62. How much MORE negative do you wish to become.

Huff has a debilitating condition that has been clinically documented. The AWOL sitch was a sympton.

Freddy was/is a valuable Giant.

Anyway: Like you said, you’re entitled but why don’t their teammates hate them as much as you aspire to?

ClutchUp

Lefty: I passed on hating-on Kent due to the fact that he went to Houston first ….

South City Jim

totalfan62, I could find much on the web but it looks like Leonard may have hurt his wrist in 1987. Seemed to me it happened after the great playoff run in ’87 but maybe I’m off one year. In any event, it was friggin’ cold!

ClutchUp

channelclemente says: July 13th, 2012 at 2:53 pm

Dykstra’s last chapter?

Channel: IMO, another BIG miss-usage of the term “great”.

totalfan62

All right Woj. I’m not getting into a spitting contest with you. I thought your post was over the top, and I disagree with you on FSanchez. Injury prone? Yes. Slacker? No.

I understand your arguments on Huff, but the players and coaches have gone out of their way to support and encourage him. I did not discuss his current contract, for which he has obviously underperformed.

Let’s agree to disagree and move on.

ClutchUp

NEW THREAD Friday’s Giants/Astros lineups

Lefty

Clutch: I said “Heartbreak,” not “Hate” on Kent! I could never hate Kent. Some really great Giant seasons anchored by that guy. We even went to his Wall of Fame ceremony in 2009–we were up close and I got some great pictures…He’s in great shape, and I wish he’d come back and play 2B for the Giants now.

I am somewhere between Woj and Totalfan on Huff. Like most of us, I truly value his stellar contributions in 2010. As I’ve said before, I think 95% of us would have been outraged if he hadn’t been signed after the World Series–not really fair to second-guess that one. But I also suspect/believe he bears some responsibility for how things have gone for him since–whether it’s not taking care of himself physically, maybe too many nights out with his buddy Pat the Bat causing stress in his marriage, etc. I’m NOT saying his anxiety issues are not real, and his marriage problems are obviously none of our business (and that means you, too, Andy “Scoop” Baggarly). But if his personal choices impact the success of the team, I think some objective criticism is warranted–especially when he’s one of the highest paid players.

In contrast, I see Freddy Sanchez as “injured in the line of duty.” He was playing extremely well and probably headed for an All-Star selection when he dove for that ground ball last June. It’s a shame about the money and a bigger shame that he’s not been able to come back and play–and maybe criticism is due Sabean for taking too big of a risk on him (both as to $$ and not having a better Plan B for this season). But I don’t see any reason whatsoever to criticize him personally. On the contrary, if he does recover and wanted to sign a minor league deal with the Giants next year to see if he can make a comeback, I would welcome him back. I would not feel the same about bringing Huff back (obviously not at the $10 mil. option, but at all).

ClutchUp

Lefty says: July 13th, 2012 at 2:56 pm
Ivie/Huff: I was going to say LH first basemen, but yours is more interesting:

*** Ivie was a R/R and was involved in one of many Lon Simmons’ is great play by play calls … adding … something like “Bye Bye Baby Bonanza” where the winner of the drawing one a car or 10K or something.

–First Quiz: I knew all three of Carlton, Spahn, & Snider had been on the Giants, but I vaguely thought Snider had refused to play for them after being traded–or maybe I’m thinking of Jackie Robinson?

***Snyder with a “Y” was considered in the same breath in NY as Mays – Mantle. It was #42 who retired rather than play for the G’s. MUCH, different time frame.

***Regarding Kent: I did not mean the emotion of hate I meant “hate-on” like fans ragging on players who went back and forth but 21 went through Houston to get to LA and Colletti coveted Jeff from day one.

*** Huff and Sanchez: You seemingly make zero bones when discussing Huff’s downfalls yet it was he who publically said as only Aubrey can – that his performance in ’11 and so far this year was “pi$$-poor”. His leaving the team was deplorable yet if you scour through the link about Ivie you’ll see both of them used similar phrases:

(Ivie called his wife, Pam, at their home in Foster City, Calif. to tell her his decision. Despite her best efforts, she was unable to change his mind. “He said it was like being in a burning building and he had to get out,” says Pam Ivie.)

*** Regardless as a MamaBear who is invested here and with the Giants and involved in your own successful marriage, I am surprised (at times) and your inability to let something’s go and let Giant Management and his teammates decide whether he is worthy. The most amazing noun I have ever heard is when people say or said that so and so is “blocking” so and so because baseball people don’t ever use that term. Competition is healthy and some vets seemingly are not required to keep earning their stripes and yet some rookies have to earn their first couple over and over again (like the military).

*** You have elegantly described what is our business or Baggarlys quite well but all of us keep returning to the term personal choices (guessing smoking/drinking carousing) but in all actuality those are most likely in the past and unless somebody has “seen Jesus” recently – open for debate as to the quantity of his escapades. Most of these guys are around each other 24/7 or at least more than their own families. If Huff were “continuing to shirk” whatever duties go with being a ball player it would be obvious to the training staff. They have enough trainers (6) to all share 6 player groups of 4. I don’t think Huff’s perceived good-old-bad-boy image that he probably embellished himself at every occasion to “still be” the cause of any current lack of skill. Maybe he’s just done because he’s just done … but his teammates seem to want him near bye. Age doesn’t take many prisoners…. either capable or players are done. Even Panda will find out = it’s easier for him

ClutchUp

Ooops….

* Even Panda will find out = it’s easier for him to me young and fat than old and fat.

Bay area rogue

The Rogue finds some truth in Woj statements. Huff and Freddy were bad investments. Who cares how nice they are or who has anxiety attacks. CU is a bit of a man pleaser. MLB baseball is a masculine sport. No excuses. I have a Degree in Psychology and anxiety disorder is real of course, but substance abuse, poor life management skills, denial and many other factors aggravate the disorder. The SF Giants are not a hospital. They are a business. If the job is too tough find another line of work. I am sure one big stress reliever for Huff and Sanchez is Payday!!!

Man_Pleaser _ that’s a new one 😉 Flattering since I don’t coach fast pitch girls softball. Hopefully Woj & Rogue don’t find themselves on the dugout railing looking for teammate allies to rag on the others in the dugout. At least they have each other!