Bob Hawke and crackers

Strewth its getting to be a daily ritual for the ALP to drag out a new dinosaur to try to extort money form the party faithful in support of the ever more desperate Rudd campaign. Maybe when it comes to the Labor government now would be the time to remind readers of that wonderful Monty Python Sketch about a certain Norwegian Blue…

79 Comments

Ahhh Iain I love my Monty Python LOL. Dead parrot ( or possibly silly walks-hell there is probably lots that fit LOL ) is probably apt at this point in the election campaign. As far as Hawke goes ,that old prick could pay for the entire election campaign himself with the commissions he has earned selling large chunks of Australia to his ideological mates the Chinese. I used to think he was a great Aussie but I was cured of that illusion some time ago ! He has only two loyalties and that is himself and his poxy Fabianism.
Cheers P.

Iain, it ocurs to me that, going by the tone and language of these ALP emails you keep producing, that you have got yourself onto the database of the ALP campaign under false pretences, feigning to be a supporter when your real motive was to use correspondence such as this one (and the countless others) to put on public display as a means of mockery & derision. That’s your choice and I understand that you may well feel perfectly entitled to do so, HOWEVER …. I don’t like it.

I have no doubt that an ALP supporter could do likewise to the Liberals and, in fact, I have often been approached by Sophie’s advisers to participate in her campaign with all sorts of lamebrain, idiotic and simplistic requests for help and support but guess what? I have never used any of that correspondence against her or the Liberal Party. Because as a matter of principle I think to do so would not only be beneath me, it would be beneath contempt full stop.

Sorry mate, you are wrong to play ‘friends’ with the ALP just so you can mock them in this way.

you are wrong to play ‘friends’ with the ALP just so you can mock them in this way

What a load of codswallop. The ALP deserve all the derision and mockery they get.

$350 billion in the hole
a carbon tax we weren’t going to have
50,000+ asylum seekers and illegal immigrants, all currently on welfare
1,000+ drowned at sea due to Kevvie’s ‘humane’ policy
four men dead due to mishandled pink batts scheme
The ‘back-of-a-serviette’ NBN’s massive cost and schedule blow-outs
multiple attempts to censor the media
Green schemes akin to throwing money down the toilet
the stalled and hapless PNG ‘solution’
Rudd’s refusal to accept blame for any of this mess

Ray
The ALP invited me to subscribe to their news feed and it is they who assume that all subscribers are in fact supporters and as such all of the correspondence which is generic rather than specifically and individually composed for my benefit is the result of them feeding their subscriber list into a mailing engine. As such it is another tool in the election process just like mainstream advertising or electoral tweets which I am sure you would consider to be fair game for criticism. Thus I have written about the email campaign with an absolutely clear conscience because my interest lays with the rhetorical methods and devices being used by the ALP. Its part of politics and the election and I am amazed that they are trying to take their “supporters” for such mugs with the puerile arguments that they have been putting. So rather than chiding me for my sense of humour and love of mockery why don’t you try to unpack the message they are trying to send here and judge it on both its veracity and effectiveness because that is the intent of this and other posts of its ilk.

How did they “invite” you to subscribe, Iain? The text of those emails suggests you signed up as a supporter, ie you contacted them, not the the other way around. As for the veracity of the ALP messages in those texts, all parties send out this type of crawling stuff to their members and/or registered supporters. It’s not meant for general publication, nor does it relect on anyone (except on those who seek to misuse it).

Ray
On their website there was a button that I clicked on to “receive email updates”, that is an invitation in my book at NO point did they say that by doing so I would become an ALP “supporter” and as I said earlier its just another form of electioneering and therefore entirely suitable for discussion and criticism. Further the ALP themselves invite recipients to spread the message far and wide and they do not claim that the correspondence is in any sense of the word private or privileged. .

GD, you forgot to mention the positives of Labor’s 6 years, being chiefly that our economy has grown, employment has grown, unemployment has stayed relatively low, interest rates have fallen and we have avoided recession. In short we have a strong economy, not a stuffed one that you seem to want to portray. As for your list of negatives:

$350 billion in the hole: Our net debt is actually a lot less than that but what’s your point? It’s manageable and, moreover, debt is a necessary tool used by Governments to keep building through harder times. That debt has kept Australia out of recession and was necessarily incurred. It’s not crippling us and will eventually be paid down by natural increase in revenues. No credible economist in the world believes Labor has mismanaged our economy - quite the opposite actually.

a carbon tax we weren’t going to have: Yeah, I don’t like that one either but it’s hardly had the massive impact you, Abbott et al claim it has. If it’s repealled (like Abbott says he will) then what you’ll find is no reduction to gas & electricity prices whatsoever and no one will be better off. Governments tax things and contrary to what you rusted-ons say, they don’t need mandates to do so. They don’t need mandates, for instance, to raise taxes on alcohol & cigarettes, or to tax a whole range of things that actually raise a lot more money than the carbon tax. This has been singled out because it’s seen as politically opportune to do so, rather than for any valid economic reason.

50,000+ asylum seekers and illegal immigrants, all currently on welfare: It’s actually 45,000 asylum seekers arriving by boat over the past 6 years and they are not “illegal immigrants”. Illegal immigrants arrive on a tourist visa by planes and overstay. You’re confused here – or you just like to lie exaggerate. Or both. It might surprise you to learn that we actually do take refugees as part of out normal intake and international obligation – 20,000 per year. Yes, the arrivals by boat (ie the ‘queue jumpers’) has got out of control but that is not the fault of the government, nor should it determine the election. You are just playing the fear card a la Howard over what is a worldwide problem and over what should be approached in a bipartisan fashion. Btw, your remark that they are “all on welfare” is pathetic and totally at odds with the truth. another lie exaggeration, GD?

1,000+ drowned at sea due to Kevvie’s ‘humane’ policy: See above. And don’t pretend you actually care about how many asylum seekers perish trying to get here. You don’t, but you’ll even stoop to using their deaths for political purposes, just like that pig Morrison.

four men dead due to mishandled pink batts scheme: Oh, using people’s deaths for political purposes again? You’re so compassionate, GD. Look, workplace accidents happen all the time but the main fault in those cases seems to lie with Queensland’s building regs.

The ‘back-of-a-serviette’ NBN’s massive cost and schedule blow-outs: Some of the world’s greatest ideas and plans have been conceived that way. The cost of the NBN accounts for a fair bit of that debt you keep complaining about but that’s what you do when you invest in the future GD … you borrow. The Labor NBN will be worth 10 or maybe 100 times its outlay by sometime next decade but not if it’s dumbed down a la Abbott’s idea. You make me laugh – you condemn Labor for wasting money yet Abbott is planning to throw away $30 billion on a Clayton’s NBN that (a) won’t work (b) will be worthless in ten years time. And you reckon the coalition are good managers?

Green schemes akin to throwing money down the toilet: Like Abbott’s $3.2 billion plan to plant trees and bury carbon? A plan that is unfunded (no carbon tax to offset it, remember) and that by his own admission, won’t achieve anything. More coalition waste.

the stalled and hapless PNG ‘solution’: It’s already working (after little more than a month). The problem here is, it was brought in too late but don’t worry, Abbott will fully adopt it. Because it’s the only solution that can work.

Rudd’s refusal to accept blame for any of this mess: What mess? The country is stuffed huh? You’re not getting any gigs and you’re being forced to busk on the streets for falafels now? Haven’t you heard of giving credit where credit is due?

Labor has spent the kids’ inheritance: Kids don’t “inherit” government revenue or reserves, GD. And they don’t pay back government debt. No government in our history has provided more for our kids’ futures than this one.

Is that all you’ve got? None of the above are grounds to throw out a government, not one that has managed the economy so successfully through the hardest economic circumstances in 80 years.

They’ll lose though and there IS a reason that they should. I’ll write about that later but you’ve missed the real reason and the point altogether. Hint: It starts with a “J”.

Ray
It has long been my practice to subscribe to all sorts of political feeds and to use those feeds to both gain insights into their creators the policies and methodology that they use to propagate their ideology I see no reason to apologise for doing so. You have never batted an eye lid in the past over this practice but now that I have been documenting the efforts of the ALP in this medium you are throwing a wobbly.
I can only conclude that this is because Rudd is doing so badly.

i hope you wash your hands after reading those e mails iain. any thing the labor party sends out is tainted with filth and corruption and smut. bob hawke? a foul mouthed drunken old womanizer who couldn’t keep it in his pants. julia gillard, a dodgy lawyer who like many others tried to fleece union funds paid by hard working australians. kevin rudd, a lying psychopath who cannot be trusted. bill shorten, a bloke so far up himself and so desperate to seek attention that he married the GGs daughter.

cant wait to saturday. just a shame we can only kick them out of the parliament and not throw the filthy communist rabble into the deepest darkest dungeon we can find. they have ruined this great country. people who continue to support them should hang their heads in shame.

Only 3 days to go and we can start to clean up the mess you helped create Ray. Now you have abandoned your Labor Green mates and claim to be independent. Your a joke ray. I have been waiting 6 years for this and I will be one of the majority of Australians celebrating on Saturday night not you!!!

Byron – you dolt – when one decides to cast one’s private vote at an election, one is NOT RESPONSIBLE for whatever it is you imagine that government subsequently inflicts on non-thinking, thick-headed dolts like you. The only “joke” around here is you with your simple/stupid accusations.

Btw, I have not “abandoned” the ALP by deciding I will vote for Cathy McGowan in Indi. The simple reality is that the ALP cannot win this seat but Cathy – a decent person who I have personally met – certainly can. And I’m more than pleased to help her get rid of one the worst politicians in our history – one Sophie Mirabella.

Ray
this emphasis from the left about so called “gaffes”is a rather sad variation on the obsessive notions of “political correctness” which seeks to exaggerate and misconstrue both the meaning and intent of off the cuff remarks made by candidates. Frankly if all you have is mockery or faux horror for a slip of the tongue then you have nothing of substance at all.
Oh Yeah here is a starting point for your promised post:

A COALITION government would save about $40 billion over the next four years in a budget plan to be unveiled today in the hope of demolishing Labor’s claim that Tony Abbott’s cuts would tip the economy into recession.

The plan adds a small number of savings to a list unveiled last week but stops far short of Kevin Rudd’s estimate of $70bn in Coalition cuts, one of the central claims in his campaign against a change of government.

After taking about $34bn worth of spending measures into account, the savings program promises to add $6bn to the budget bottom line over the next four years and comes with an explicit finding by the independent Parliamentary Budget Office that key Coalition policies would add to economic growth.

While substantial, the savings target is in line with the $35bn in spending cuts and tax increases in Labor’s first budget in 2008, undercutting arguments that it amounts to an “austerity” program that would damage the nation’s growth.
Digital Pass $1 for first 28 Days

Health and education will be exempt from the savings and the Coalition has indicated the two areas would keep their overall funding levels over the forward estimates.

Adding to the political brawl over costings, the Opposition Leader faced questions yesterday about whether he was treating voters with “scorn” by giving them only 48 hours before polling day to evaluate the details of his policies.

Coalition Treasury spokesman Joe Hockey and finance spokesman Andrew Robb will release the final cost estimates today to demonstrate how he would scale back the budget deficits faster than Labor while also reducing forecast commonwealth debt by about $16bn by 2016-17.

The Coalition plan answers a final costings tally from Labor yesterday that showed no significant change to the budget balance, deepening next year’s deficit by $124 million but adding about the same amount to the surplus predicted for 2016-17.

Labor’s plan revealed that almost every new measure promised during the election campaign has been offset by spending cuts in the same portfolio, raising $1.6bn with few details on where the cuts might fall. Departments will be forced to “absorb” the funding pressures from scores of Labor programs ranging from $100m in medical help for Defence Force families to a $20m education program for the National Broadband Network.

Labor has submitted 66 policies to Treasury for costing under the Charter of Budget Honesty, with the costings of 36 measures yet to be verified.

The Coalition will not release the findings on each policy prepared by the PBO, unlike the policy of the Greens to allow the public release of its election costings. Instead, the Coalition has had its final plan verified by former Treasury official Geoff Carmody, former Queensland auditor-general Len Scanlan and former head of Prime Minister & Cabinet Peter Shergold.

The Prime Minister seized on the latest national accounts, which showed the economy expanded 2.6 per cent in the past year, to warn that a Coalition government would jeopardise growth by cutting spending too hard.

“Pulling the plug on public investment prematurely by massive cuts places continued growth at risk in the Australian economy,” the Prime Minister told reporters.

“My question for Mr Abbott is to guarantee that his massive cuts will not hurt the economy, not hurt jobs and not risk triggering the economy into recession.”

The Coalition intends to counter that claim by revealing today that the PBO forecasts an economic growth “dividend” from policies such as the repeal of the carbon tax.

The boost to growth from the policy platform would add $1.1bn to commonwealth tax revenue over the next four years, but the Coalition has not “banked” the gain by including it in its budget bottom line.

Instead, it intends to outline the dividend in general terms to support Mr Abbott’s repeated promise to lift economic growth.

While the $40bn savings target is significant, it is spread over four years and is similar in scale to savings programs in the past.

Labor outlined savings measures – including spending cuts and revenue increases – worth $35bn over five years in its 2008 budget and $15bn over five years in its 2009 budget.

Then treasurer Wayne Swan announced $44bn in savings over four years in his final budget in May this year without sparking talk of a recession.

The Coalition savings program is also balanced by a similar amount of spending increases, including a $10bn outlay on Mr Abbott’s signature plan for paid parental leave.

The $40bn in savings are set against approximately $34bn in spending measures.

The net impact will be a $6bn improvement in the budget balance over four years, enough to add substantially to the surplus in 2016-17 although the Coalition will not commit itself to specific budget targets in each year.

Mr Hockey and Mr Robb will redouble their warnings about Labor’s debt levels by promising that their policies will reduce borrowings by $16bn by 2016-17, not only by improving the budget bottom line but also cutting the loans needed to fund major projects.

The latest budget updateforecast net debt to reach $217.3bn or 12 per cent of GDP by 2017, a level that is well below other advanced economies.

Mr Abbott told The Australian yesterday a Coalition government would do what it has promised on budget changes and economic reform but would not make any changes “inconsistent with our mandate”.

The Opposition Leader said he thought there would be a fairly rapid return to business confidence when it was clear the Coalition’s cuts would not live up to Labor’s scare campaign.

“We aren’t going to spoil Christmas but then people do expect an incoming government to make it very obvious from day one that the place is under new management and that the place is open for business and the errors of the previous government are going to be corrected,” he said.

“If people think they can get out and do their job without being second-guessed and criticised by government I think there will be a rapid restoration of confidence.”Source

Worse than that, unless you are a fully subscribed member of the ALP and you view the Coalition as the Visigoths, the central criticism against Labor’s opponents is just silly. “We are in the business of building the house up,” says Rudd, “the conservatives have always been in the business of tearing the house down.”

Really? The party of Menzies, Howard and Abbott is all about tearing down Australia? Why? How? This just won’t ring true to most voters.

“We are in the business of building the nation’s future where as Mr Abbott believes in $70 billion worth of cuts for the nation’s future,” says Rudd (using a figure widely discredited by independent fact checkers). “Cuts that will hurt your jobs, your school, your hospital and your cost of living. And $70 billion of massive cuts that risk throwing the entire economy into recession because we are living through fragile global economic times.”

Again this gets cheers from the party faithful, and strangely enough much of the commentariat, but does it make any sense? Do mainstream voters really believe the Coalition want to get into power to plunge the country into recession, reduce standards of living and diminish the quality of our schools and hospitals. And for what end?

If you barrack for Labor the way Joffa barracks for Collingwood, you will hate the evil conservatives and cheer this sort of message. But it is no way to win over mainstream voters.

You must have a critique that is plausible. Rudd was much better on his positive messages about the NBN, education and jobs and training. The attack on the Abbott and the Coalition is ineffective because it is over the top, underestimates the intelligence of voters and just seems hysterical.

Don’t know about that Ray, most of what I read from you here would, if in book form, be award winning fiction.

And as for saying oh, Labor can’t win the seat so I’ll vote for an independent, I mean that attitude is despicable. You are either a Labor supporter or you aren’t. If you are part of a bulk of people with the same attitude that ensures that your party can’t win, whereas if everyone said we’ll at least try, the end result might be surprising.

It’s something about loyalty I think, and the lack thereof says a lot about the individual.

Iain, I am not a “Joffa” style barracker of the ALP and you know that. I certainly don’t just cheer along with everything they do or what Rudd says like you do with the Coalition. I also don’t engage in over-the-top criticism of the Opposition on every little thing.

But I do have “a critique that is plausible” in suggesting they should not be thrown out and, as I’ve said all along, I will put that up as a post before the election. I’ll most likely write it tonight and you can read my response to this News Ltd copy & paste crap you keep using as your argument. Then.

Byron, if Tony Windsor were running in Indi I’d vote for him and he’d be elected. He’d beat Sophie in a canter.

You see, it’s only your opinion that the government is “the worst in history” but you know what? I don’t see any 100-metre long soup lines or people on the streets with a cup and a sign that reads “Buddy can you spare a dime?”. Tell me Byron, do you have a job? Are you earning more or less than you were in 2007? Are you paying off a house? Are you paying more or less interest than you were in 2007? Do you have kids? Are you getting more or less government help for raising them (and for their education) than you were in 2007? Some “bad” government, eh? You wouldn’t be a Liberal Party member by any chance would you mate? I reckon you are.

James, I’m voting for an Independent because that’s my prerogative, my right and my choice – I want to see someone who will fight to bring this electorate everything it was denied for 12 years under Sophie. You don’t live here so you don’t know how much she’s neglected this electorate and how it is in desperate need of some pretty basic stuff (like natural gas for instance and a better rail systyem). Already, McGowan’s impact has seen both sides (Labor & Liberal) pledge more help so it seems to be working. But ‘blind loyalty’ in voting for a candidate that is not really up to it (and has no hope of winning) just because she’s from the ALP is no longer a proposition around here. It’s hardly “despicable” to be pragmatic and vote for someone who will help my community and general area.

It is interesting to note in your choice Ray, that the issues that matter to you are not federal ones, rather state issues, and as such have nothing to do with this election ?

All members, and I have yet to see one, (regardless of their propaganda machines’ protestations ?) work in Canberra solely for their own electorate. You have extremely loyal members over the years, that tried like hell for their local electorates, but unless that electorate was a vital swinging seat, then it was follow party lines, or you wouldn’t be on the list come preselection time.

A Federal govt can (and does) provide States with funding for those major issues, Tony. They’re not the only ones, btw. By any measure, Sophie Mirabella has not “tried like hell for her local electorate” of Indi and can point to no major achievements here in her entire 12 years – although she did try to falsely claim credit for bringing the Wodonga Oncology (cancer treatment) centre. That claim has been rebutted by not only several Ministers but also by the local working party responsible for driving the push for the centre, who have categorically stated that Sophie Mirabella had no input into the project whatsoever and at no stage offered her assistance in lobbying for it. She’s a dud and she should go.

Come on man, you can’t have been impressed by Joe ‘sweaty’ Hockey’s announcement today that the coaltion of no hope will improve the budget bottom line by a ‘whopping’ $6 billion over the next 4 years forward estimates.

It’s a f*cking pittance in the scheme of things and is tantamount to the coaltion admitting they can’t manage the economy any better than Labor.

Well, even worse, given that to achieve that ‘massive’ improvement they’ll be cutting left, right & f*cking centre from benefits to average Aussies.

Face it, GD, your lot are are not ready to govern, and it’s no wonder your precious ‘Fat-boy-slim’ Joe was sweating like a pig while announcing those pitiful costings.

Yeah, even ‘used car salesman’ Joe couldn’t sell us that lemon with any sincerity. He knew it, why didn’t you?

Congratulations on already voting for the Coalition of no hope, no jobs and no f*cking idea.

Ray. I have sat back and watched and said very little for months but it is clear you are losing it. You are starting to sound more and more like Bob Ellis and you really don’t need to go there. Get used to the fact that you are wrong. The crap we are turning into as a culture is a shadow of what Australia was and it is entirely the fault of the labor mongrels that have forced their poxy fabian socialism,their degenerative class and culture war and corrupt party structure and their incompetence into our way of life. Like it or not we are in deep shit financially and it will take a decade of pain to dig us out of the hole. We are well in excess of $350 billion in that hole if you take all the off budget and forward commitments into account and the very real spectre of the resources boom we have dodged a bullet with is vaporising like labors hopes for the future. Add that to a downward revaluation of the dollar and our overseas sourced debt will blossom further. All this bullshit over our debt being small is garbage when you consider that debt is now a full years income for the government so this bunch of bastards that could not survive on 115% of their annual income for the last 5 years ( I will give them the $40Bil that the GFC stimulus needed ) were only ever going to grow that debt more because it is NOT in their nature to be able to survive on the 90% it would take to repay in in under 15 years !
No doubt you will come back with abuse as you always do but guess what ? I care about as much as the labor faithful in this clip ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg
So have a nice Day because I certainly will on Saturday when we collectively get to pull the chain and flush these turds down the hole for hopefully a generation!

MYTH: Australia only escaped the “Global Financial Crisis” because of Kevin Rudd

FACT: Australia’s escaped relatively unscathed from the so-called “Global Financial Crisis” due to the legacy of the Howard Government leaving strong budget surpluses and eliminating the debt – Australia had no net debt federally, and, according to the IMF, some of the lowest gross debt in the world. Furthermore, the Howard government’s reforms to industrial relations ensured a flexible labour market and increase productivity. This – combined with some prudent monetary policy (the lowering of relatively-high interest rates by the Reserve Bank giving Australians a higher disposable income, thereby boosting consumption) and the strength of Australian banks – is what spared us.

The nation’s gross debt has risen almost $1.5 billion a week in the first two months of the second Rudd Government

On average, Australia will have a yearly interest bill of $10 billion over the next four years. That works out to be interest payments, on average, of almost $190 million every single week, and that is before a dollar is even paid back

Peter & GD, I am hardly “losing it” by pointing to the Coalition’s pathetic costing announcements yesterday. No wonder they wanted to keep this stuff under wraps until the last moment to avoid scrutiny. Have a good look at it and scratch your heads, boys – all this carry on about debt and deficits and spending and fingerpointing at Labor has amounted to what? The Coalitions plan to save a measly $6 billion in the budget bottom line over the next 4 years … maybe!

The Coalition have as much as admitted they cannot manage the economy any better than Labor, which stands to reason and supports the worldwide economic view of experts that the government is running a strong economy and should not be replaced.

You lot have carried on like pork chops for 3 years now and you accuse me of “losing it”? Give me a break, all your bleating has amounted to nothing and you simply want change for change’s sake because you are totally biased to the conservative side of politics. You have no vision, only mean-spirited views of the poorest people in our society and overseas. No compassion and, quite frankly, no understanding of what the real role of government is.

Ray, once again I think people here are somewhat concerned for your health and well being. Tomorrow are you going to be in the company of others, especially tomorrow evening as, well I don’t think you should be left alone, for your own well being.

Don’t patronise me with your fake concerns for my “health”, James. I don’t get upset by Federal election results and it won’t bother me in the slightest if the bogans from Western Sydney and the below-average-intelligence voters of Queensland kick the Government out, as they’re likely to do.

“it won’t bother me in the slightest if the bogans from Western Sydney and the below-average-intelligence voters of Queensland kick the Government out” You really do have tickets on yourself don’t you ? This comment unfortunately displays the mentality that rusted on,self aggrandising , entitlement afflicted moral pigmies that many chardonnay socialists are. This is why you attract so much derision from those “adults” that you fail to understand and despise so much. It very much supports the old adage that if you are not a socialist in your twenties you have no heart,if you are still one in your forties you have no brain.

There is no point criticising Ray for his views, no matter how ill informed they may be guys.
After all, that is, historically, labor’s way.
I have been having the same argument with Ray, GD, for over a month now, and his Gordon Gekko type response was ?

debt is good, debt is normal, debt was a quintessential facet of keeping this country out of the gfc !

Right out of the labor play book !
Now the saving measures that Abbott will introduce, in Ray’s opinion are the proverbial drop in the bucket ?

The next government has over $300 billion to pull back ? They have to start somewhere ?

At least, for the first time in six years, the pattern of debt accummulation trend line, will finally start to go in the right direction ? Trust me, that we will ! :(
Even you, a labor diehard, must see that the accummulation of massive debt has to stop, and that we are all paying for it, with money that should be earmarked for schools, teachers, hospitals and all the other vital infrastructure we need, being shot overseas in the way of massive interest payments ?

One wonders if there will be labor wake party, that Ray can attend, to have a community sulk with other labor diehards ?

PS Loved your link James, but Rudd and Co wouldn’t be the first political party in this country, not to pull that stunt ?

and for nothing ?
it looks like labor has gotten away with the classic cover up of all.
That is by NOT releasing the actual fiscal/bank balance of Australias bank balance !
That tells me all I will ever need to know !

Tony, the bald truth is that Abbott intends to run deficits for the entire term he wants to be elected to. Deficits that will be hardly any less than Labor’s. And deficits that he will have to go further into debt to fund. We have been served up a dose of reality here, which is that in the current climate it’s prudent to use debt to keep the economy going – and even Tony Abbott is effectively conceding that.

Peter, what were you saying about “abuse”? I’m hardly a “socialist” (quite the opposite actually – I develop property as my main pursuit) so I’ll just ignore your latest insulting rant.

That was hardly abuse Ray ( you may want to read your own posts and remember that when you point a finger there are three pointing back at you) LOL and I did say “chardonnay socialist” and I certainly stand by that as you certainly have the rhetoric down pat ;-)

the bald truth is that Abbott intends to run deficits for the entire term he wants to be elected. Deficits that will be hardly any less than Labor’s

Do you have a link for that Ray, otherwise it is just more rhetoric, you are swallowing, from a floundering labor propaganda machine ?
It took Howard six years to repay all of the Hawke/Keating debt, it will no doubt take the same for Abbot & Co to do likewise now.

We have been served up a dose of reality here, which is that in the current climate it’s prudent to use debt to keep the economy going – and even Tony Abbott is effectively conceding that.

You are again forgetting one of the major differences in governing style between lib and labor Ray ?
That is, when labor come in, they have a tendency to have massive, expensive bureaucracies, whereas the libs don’t. Whenever they come in, what happens ? They have a massive cleanout of the public service, saving millions straight off the top of any continuing debt. That’s history.

If you are talking about the GFC Ray, there is still no evidence, other than our banks that got burned in dodgy overseas markets, that it had absolutely NO EFFECT HERE at all. I have asked you previously to back up this premise, that you keep pointing to, in labor’s defence, and other than reading from the labor playbook, nothing of substance in this matter, has ever been forthcoming from you. Want to know why ?
Because, it doesn’t bloody exist !

Ray
while I have no problem with the coalition’s path to surplus the important difference between them and Labor is that they have a plan to pay down the debt over the the forward estimates which is important because we both know that even if the ongoing stimulus is warranted eventually that debt has to be addressed and its better to do that sooner rather than never as would be the case under Rudd.

That’s just a pathetic appeal to safety-in-numbers, Peter. Of course you feel safe in your abuse here because, let’s face it, this is essentially a right-wing blog run by and for those with similar views to its author. Iain, you might note, does not engage in abusive and personalised fingerpointing at my points of view and (because he is a more decent chap and treats me with respect) I do not respond to him in the same manner I might respond to other, less tolerant and less respectful commenters here. In short, Peter, if anyone here wants to use the safety of the site’s stance (and anonymity in a lot of cases) to attack me and my character, instead of debating the actual issues, I will give them back the same treatment and then some.

Iain.
Stimulus is only required now because we need to overcome the economic negating effects of labor/green’s ill conceived environmental imposts,mining tax and their ridiculous border protection failure ! The GFC was over four years ago.

No Iain, Labor is planning to return to surplus by 2016/17 – Abbott won’t commit to that. Anyway, I’m in the process of writing my election summary (or ‘Why Rudd deserves another term’) post, so maybe we can ‘thrash it out’ there when it’s up. I suspect the likes of Peter, Tony, James and GD will come out with their usual rhetoric but it all looks pretty hollow now, seeing that the coalition can’t balance the books either.

Ray , you heap your vile abuse on a whole State (below-average-intelligence voters of Queensland) and a million people in another city (bogans from Western Sydney) and you have the gall to accuse me of abuse ? QED ( and if you don’t know what it means bloody look it up and then go get some help.

I suspect the likes of Peter, Tony, James and GD will come out with their usual rhetoric but it all looks pretty hollow now, seeing that the coalition can’t balance the books either.

They can’t Ray. Simply because Rudd and Co are too embarrassed, and know it truly would be a wipeout tomorrow, if they did release the ACTUAL bank balance of our treasury. How can the libs commit to anything without this information. Wait until next week, when the true situation is actually released, and Abbott has to front the media/country to tell us just how bloody bad things REALLY ARE !

I hope your election summary is a little more fair handed, unlike your previous efforts here ?
Actually, I, like probably many here, are only interested in one summary Ray.
The one we will hear about nine o’clock tomorrow night, when the winner should be announced. It will be early, as the early trends will no doubt point the way, and we will all be able to get an early night, and sure ourselves up for the pain, that will no doubt start on Monday.

” Labor is planning to return to surplus by 2016/17 – Abbott won’t commit to that.”
Bullshit Ray !! These are Hockey’s figures ” The Coalition costings lead to a $29bn deficit this year that will fall to $21.6bn and then $2.7bn in the following two years before a $4.8bn surplus in 2016-17. ” If you are going to argue a point at least get your facts right ! And remember Swans “surplus as promised and on time” ? That is labor’s way , over promise and under deliver !

Peter, I’m well aware of what QED means. I also know what self-pwning means and you just did that.

I did not say “the whole State” of Queensland are of below average intelligence. Nor did I say all people in Western Sydney are bogans. You have jumped to conclusions and showed a lack of comprehension, mate.

In any case, it’s hardly “vile” or “abuse” to refer to a group of nameless and largely unidentified people as below average intelligence or bogans. It’s not exactly personal – you’re having real trouble with comprehension there too.

Peter, I’m still in the process of digesting Joe’s gobsmackingly stupid announcement from yesterday and still in the process of putting that together for a new post. Thanks for the correction (I’ll check that out) but would you mind backing off and waiting until the post is up? Then you can go berserk again, like a dog with rabies! (sorry for that “abuse” if you see it that way but I’m just returning your fire).

You’re right, Peter. I do find it difficult to avoid explaining common sense to those who don’t understand that (by definition) approximately 50% of people in Queensland (and elsewhere) are of below average intelligence. If you don’t understand that then I can only conclude you’re in that 50% group too. Now please – I’m busy. Just go gnaw on some other bone and wait for the post.

Actually Ray, on current poll numbers the “below average intelligence” subset are around the 45% ish ( 2PP of course) . Enjoy your time putting together your work of vitriol and fiction and I sincerely hope you use something other than labor’s forecast numbers as we well know how good they have been up to this point. ( it will be pretty hard as they have not costed around half of their policies and the NBN report has been suppressed so we can’t know what that is going to tell us) . Tell me have they actually got ANYTHING right in the last six years that makes you so sure they are the best to lead ?
I will leave you to your labour of love now as I do actually have to do some productive ( got a barb for that too ;-0 ) work.

So anyone who votes Labor is of below average intelligence and those who vote Coalition are Einsteins? Wow, I’m glad I don’t have the (low) level of IQ that could come out with that stunning analysis, Peter. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt though and presume you were being tongue-in-cheek. Enjoy your bone, mate.

(PS: Have you worked out the definition of “below average intelligence” yet? Let me explain: If there are 100 people in a room taking an IQ test, the results will show that 50 of them are smarter than the other 50. It’s just a fact)

Tony, I don’t care if no one responds to my post. I have always taken the view that silence from the dissenters means they are unable to deconstruct my point of view in any meaningful way. Rock solid arguments tend to have that effect!

Let me know when you come up with one, that justifies labor’s massive incompetence Ray, and I will gladly give you a gold star.
Please don’t blame it all on the GFC again.

I have always taken the view that silence from the dissenters means they are unable to deconstruct my point of view in any meaningful way. Rock solid arguments tend to have that effect!

The view can also assert, that the argument is so far out there that it doesn’t warrant a response ?

For the benefit of all here, lib or labor, do us all a favour, please take a step back, and just think about the current trends, all the FACTUAL information in the last week, you have dutifully ignored, and make it a post that gets us all thinking, and not just another labort love fest will you ?

“Tony, I don’t care if no one responds to my post. I have always taken the view that silence from the dissenters means they are unable to deconstruct my point of view in any meaningful way. Rock solid arguments tend to have that effect!”

Or it could just be stunned disbelief and silence ;-)

Really gotta zip now ( yeah,yeah I know you don’t give a toss , go and chew on a bone etc,etc )

Tony, why are you still at it? And face it, if it were not for me this site would be nothing but a place for coalition cheerleading. At least I give you something to actually debate, although it would be good if you tried to actually debate instead of this type of groupthink response you all engage in. Without opposing views there’s nothing for you to say, is there? Now I’m busy – do you mind leaving it at that for the time being?

As for if it were not for me this site would be nothing but a place for coalition cheerleading that is not entirely correct.
If labor had managed to do something right in the last three years, I would be the first. Actually, I did above come to think about it. The cash spashes were pretty good. Yay !
There you go
Bugger all else worthy of note though.

There have been some classic Photos, Cartoons and videos around during this election.

With Kevin Rudd under real pressure in his own electorate of Griffith, Bill Glasson for the LNP looks like doing a number on the born again leader and the following video put out today by the Glasson camp I think is great. Good amateur production values, and great selection of music;

Comments are closed.

Welcome to the Sandpit

I love a good argument so please leave a comment

Please support the Sandpit

Do you feel lucky?

Copyright

Portions of any work that are quoted are reproduced on the basis of the "fair dealing for purpose of criticism or review" section 41 of the Copyright Act 1968.
let's look at the Australian Copyright Council's fact sheet on Fair Use:

The Federal Court has stated that “criticism and review” involves making a judgment of the material concerned, or of the underlying ideas. Criticism and review may be strongly expressed, and may be expressed humorously, and need not be balanced. The defence can apply where the criticism or review takes place in a commercial context, such as in published books or newspapers or on commercial television.

However, the court emphasised that the purpose of criticism or review must be genuine. If the person has other motives – especially if these motives involve using the material to make a profit, or using a competitor’s material to
divert customers from the competitor – the fact that they have also engaged in a form of criticism or review is not
enough to prevent the use from infringing copyright

All other content on this site is copyright Iain Hall and may not be reproduced in any form with out explicit permission of the author.

Comment Copyright

Anyone who comments at the Sandpit under a pseudonym does so on the clear understanding that by doing so they are giving any and all rights and ownership of those comments to the site-owner who may reproduce them in any form or at any other site or venue entirely at his own discretion.