5-7 days, eggs prepared any way, any kind of meat (seasonings are ok) Butter, mayo, sour cream, mustard, hot sauce, any low carb sauces are okay to use. A few ounces of cheese is ok (some don't eat any cheese/dairy at all though). I typicaly loose anywhere from 5-7lbs when I do it and the weight doesn't come back after. I usually maintain for a few days or a week before I start losing again. I just finish an m/e fast last week and lost 6.4lbs in 6 days went from 204 to 198 and still a week later and hovering around the 198 mark still.

i am starting this tomorrow, boiled me some eggs today, i have been on a carb junket, and this helps me get rid of the cravings and back on track before its to late and gets w-a-y- out of hand----i am going to have some cream in my tea in the mornings, i know some do not to dairy, but i have to have a little----i also have some ribeyes thawing----will have them with some melted butter on---yum---will probably make some of the eggs, deviled---hope i can do this for a few days, don't know about the 5-7, i get sick of eggs pretty quickly,---good luck to everyone----

I don't weigh or portion my food so I can't say for sure. I don't count calories either but i'm sure it's well under 2,000. My favorite was a buttered up ribeye steak with a fried egg, yum! I had too much alcohol and carbage this week and am up a grand total of 3.3lbs so I might just be joining you on another M&E fast. I get tired of eggs pretty quickly too so I try to eat more meat when I do. I agree though when you do the fast you can tell the difference right away in hunger.. like right now im so hungry i could eat anything because I let the carbs back in this weekend but as soon as i start the fast all my cravings disappear and it's hard for me to even get hungry let alone try to make myself eat.

my birthday is this week and I'm planning one off plan meal. I think I will jump into the M+E fast for 7 days right afterwards. I seem to do best when I alternate the amount of carbs I eat... so we'll see.

There are probably infinite ways to do a meat-only, meat-and-egg-only, or high-fat-mod-protein-ultra-low carb diet.

Several doctors before Dr. Atkins recommended food plans of 80% fat and 20% protein with calorie restriction. Dr. Atkins used the work of Drs. Kekwick, Pawan, Pennington, and MacKarness in his recommendations for his Fat Fast and Modified Fat Fast.

Dr. Kurt Harris posted on his blog, Archevore, (the blog was titled PaNu then) some time back, that if one weren't losing weight with his standard recommendations, that one could try this:

How to Lose Weight
THURSDAY, AUGUST 27, 2009 AT 10:56AM
Let's see if I can write the world's shortest description of everything you can do to lose weight. OK, you'll have to read some of the rest of the site to make sense of it, I suppose. But it will still be pretty short.

PaNu is not a weight loss program. It is a healthy eating regime that also happens to be the most powerful and simplest (not easiest, necessarily) regime that I have encountered to achieve your genetically determined normal lean body weight. Being at a particular weight is simply evidence of a having a healthy metabolism, and should obviously not be a health goal in itself.

If you have trouble losing weight following the first 4 or 5 steps, you may have what I unscientifically call a "broken metabolism".

If you have a broken metabolism, with stubborn residual insulin resistance (liver, not adipocytes), or your leptin receptors are screwed up by WGA from wheat and your satiety switch is broken, or any of a number of theoretical metabolic derangements from years of eating the standard american diet, you may have trouble losing weight without going VLC (say 5-10% carbs) and you might indeed gain weight if you eat excess protein beyond your needs.

The extra insulin response to excess dietary protein may simply drive more fat storage. I would not expect this in most people, but it may happen in some. See this.

What to do?

If you can't lose weight and you need to, you must cut carbs until you have ketones in your urine. Ketones in your blood is ketosis. Ketones in your urine is ketonuria. Ketonuria is proof of ketosis. GNG (gluconeogenesis) and ketosis is the sure way to prove your insulin levels are low as you can get them.

Then, as dietary fat has the least effect on serum insulin, and dietary protein has a small but measurable effect, eat only the minimum necessary protein (.8 -1 g/Kg/d) and the rest as fat.

5% carbs should guarantee GNG and ketonuria. (This will mean almost no vegetables and no sugary salad dressings, etc. Your food must be naked except for healthy fats)

15 -10% protein (drop it as you adapt)

80-85% fat

This, by the way, is ridiculously easy to achieve if you use butter and cream, but a bit impractical otherwise. This is close to Kwasniewski's Optimal Diet. Read the book.

A few more things not mentioned by Kwasniewski but that I think are important:

It is helpful to absolutely eliminate fructose from your diet if you have any issues with weight. The SAD (standard american diet) has absurdly high amounts of fructose that destroy your liver's insulin sensitivity. Fructose may be the single biggest cause of broken metabolism.

The second biggest (or maybe first, who knows?) cause of broken metabolism may be gluten grains. Wheat germ agglutinin (WGA) binds leptin receptors and insulin receptors, in addition to nasty effects on the immune system and gut. So even if you have no immunologic issues like celiac disease, and you don't believe like I do that almost everyone has subclinical damage to the gut from gluten grains, wheat may be making it harder for you to lose weight by affecting your satiety switch and by directly causing fat storage.

Excess Omega 6 linoleic acid ("the third horseman") probably also has an effect on weight loss, as there is evidence that excess n-3 linoleic acid contributes to the inflammation in the liver that is part of metabolic syndrome. Just one more reason to keep industrial vegetable oils limited.

Stick to white rice and potatoes if you absolutely must eat starch. No wheat, barley or rye.

Try eating one big meal a day to satiety, then allow yourself nothing but decaf coffee with whole cream or fast the rest of the time. I eat like this about three days a week. It is really easy once you are keto-adapted*

It is, I believe, easier to go cold turkey from carbohydrates than taper off. Teasing yourself with cereals and bagels is more difficult than simply enduring a few days of nausea or hypoglycemia. Just carry a container of sliced oranges or apples and eat a slice if you are hypogycemic. (Yes, there is a bit of fructose there, you are just eating it while you adapt to ketosis) Totally avoid grains and starches. Use fruit for emergencies. It will pass.

*I define keto-adapted as being conditioned enough to ketosis that you can easily fast without getting light headed or hypoglycemic. I think VLC (50g) or ZC (5-10 g) folks are all ketoadapted. LC (100g/day carbs) not as much. Even if not in ketosis all the time, KA folks can slip in and out of it easily and their metabolism has all the machinery for ketosis and GNG constructed. Caution: metabolic speculation informed by experience.

Meat, both muscle meat and offal, meat fat, bone/meat broths, and eggs are the basis of my nutrient intake. I add butter, cream, cheese, homemade yoghurt, and a few plants (for the micronutrients and some variety), and occasionally some fish, and follow Dr. Richard Bernstein's Law of Small Numbers. I found that going below 20g/CHO/d made me feel unwell. I feel best at 20-30g/CHO/d. The occasional day of below 20 or up to 40 or so is not a problem for me.

This ends up with a daily total of: 20-30g/CHO, 50-70g/PRO (I don't fret if I go a bit higher, but do watch it that I don't go lower than 50g) and enough FAT to feel well and cheery.

Liver, brains, kidneys, egg yolks, cheese, and cream all have carbs, so it is easy to get to that 20-30g/CHO/d.

"Protein metabolism requires some insulin response and any excess protein will be mostly converted to glucose, which requires a considerable amount of insulin to be used."
---Peter DobromylskyjMaintainers over-55 Thread

Hi, Lizzie. It's lovely to see you too. Thanks for your kind thoughts. I hope you are doing splendidly.

I neglected to answer the part of the question about the origins of the meat and fat food plan. Those with ancestors in the northern parts of the globe, before the advent of agriculture, ate what they could hunt. They ate the whole animal, bones, marrow, the inside parts, even the contents of the stomach (which gave them micronutrients from the plants the animals had eaten). Dr. Michael Eades has posted about the pre-agricultural diet of human beings, on his blog. (A few berries, herbs, leaves and roots were added, as found, in regions where such things grew.)

Dr. Wolfgang Lutz writes about this in his book, Life Without Bread. Dr. Lutz called the diet since the advent of agriculture, the real "fad diet".

Dr. Blake Donaldson was the first doctor to write about a pre-agricultural diet for helping patients (heart disease, diabetes, arthritis, allergies, obesity, etc.), AFAIK, in his book, Strong Medicine, copyright 1961. (Dr. Donaldson started putting his patients on meat and fat diets, sometimes with one serving of veg/fruit, in the 1920s.) Dr. Donaldson interviewed museum curators at the American Museum of Natural History, as well as the explorer, Vilhjalmur Stefansson, about what our ancestors ate, and their health.

Dr. Richard MacKarness wrote about the diet of our ancestors in his book, Eat Fat and Grow Slim, ca. 1960 (depending on the edition one reads).

To put the proportions of the fatty meat diet in short form: fatty meat, including offal and bone marrow, in the proportion of 80% meat fat, and 20% protein, of total calories. This is what Dr. Donaldson and Dr. MacKarness recommended. Drs. Kekwick and Gawan had some of their patients on 90% fat and 10% protein to lose weight. Dr. Alfred Pennington's writings and work are very much worthwhile reading, too. His success putting patients on LCHF diets put LC diets in the news. Here is a paper of his from 1953 on LCHF diets for obesity. Dr. Donaldson also had patients in hospitals on meat, three times a day, and they recovered from many ailments. His book is fascinating reading.

Sunny, I use heavy cream or half-and-half, and butter, along with the meat, meat fat, offal, bone broths, eggs, fish, and bits of plant matter. If one has no intolerance for dairy products, such as lactose or casein intolerance, or sensitivity to amines, there is no nutritional reason to avoid them, AFAIK. Some find that they lose weight by leaving out the cream, cheese, etc., even when replacing those calories with beef fat. Some leave out particular foods, and do not replace them with anything containing calories.

"Protein metabolism requires some insulin response and any excess protein will be mostly converted to glucose, which requires a considerable amount of insulin to be used."
---Peter DobromylskyjMaintainers over-55 Thread

Any thoughts about how to feed children? My youngest balks at a lot of this food. Although I will say, she did really love the chicken thighs my husband slow-cooked on the bbq last night in a no-sugar sauce...seems the better we get at cooking, the easier this is.

Well, it seems as though I have aquired a reaction to eating eggs I had 3 hard boiled eggs at lunch and not more then 5 minutes later I had hives and was itching like a mad woman. It's been 8hs and I'm still ITCHING!!! What the heck? Ugh. Not cool. I love eggs. Now what am I going to eat? Someone suggested chicken salad, so that may be my "go" to food.

Hi, Lizzie. It's lovely to see you too. Thanks for your kind thoughts. I hope you are doing splendidly.

I neglected to answer the part of the question about the origins of the meat and fat food plan. Those with ancestors in the northern parts of the globe, before the advent of agriculture, ate what they could hunt. They ate the whole animal, bones, marrow, the inside parts, even the contents of the stomach (which gave them micronutrients from the plants the animals had eaten). Dr. Michael Eades has posted about the pre-agricultural diet of human beings, on his blog. (A few berries, herbs, leaves and roots were added, as found, in regions where such things grew.)

Dr. Wolfgang Lutz writes about this in his book, Life Without Bread. Dr. Lutz called the diet since the advent of agriculture, the real "fad diet".

Dr. Blake Donaldson was the first doctor to write about a pre-agricultural diet for helping patients (heart disease, diabetes, arthritis, allergies, obesity, etc.), AFAIK, in his book, Strong Medicine, copyright 1961. (Dr. Donaldson started putting his patients on meat and fat diets, sometimes with one serving of veg/fruit, in the 1920s.) Dr. Donaldson interviewed museum curators at the American Museum of Natural History, as well as the explorer, Vilhjalmur Stefansson, about what our ancestors ate, and their health.

Dr. Richard MacKarness wrote about the diet of our ancestors in his book, Eat Fat and Grow Slim, ca. 1960 (depending on the edition one reads).

To put the proportions of the fatty meat diet in short form: fatty meat, including offal and bone marrow, in the proportion of 80% meat fat, and 20% protein, of total calories. This is what Dr. Donaldson and Dr. MacKarness recommended. Drs. Kekwick and Gawan had some of their patients on 90% fat and 10% protein to lose weight. Dr. Alfred Pennington's writings and work are very much worthwhile reading, too. His success putting patients on LCHF diets put LC diets in the news. Here is a paper of his from 1953 on LCHF diets for obesity. Dr. Donaldson also had patients in hospitals on meat, three times a day, and they recovered from many ailments. His book is fascinating reading.

Sunny, I use heavy cream or half-and-half, and butter, along with the meat, meat fat, offal, bone broths, eggs, fish, and bits of plant matter. If one has no intolerance for dairy products, such as lactose or casein intolerance, or sensitivity to amines, there is no nutritional reason to avoid them, AFAIK. Some find that they lose weight by leaving out the cream, cheese, etc., even when replacing those calories with beef fat. Some leave out particular foods, and do not replace them with anything containing calories.

Hope this all helps.

Thanks Aunti EM---your post are always very helpful---i do not have a tolerance to dairy products, so glad of that----i have heard before that some lose faster by leaving it out, but when i have the urge to eat something i always have a tea with a little cream, cuts the craving fast---

ive done the fat fast and that works if you can stay on it. i got a bit light headed at times, which happens when im burning tons of fat in ketosis. i dont think i gained any back, but boy was it hard to stomach some of those 'meals'... plan ahead... make your menu before so you arent trying to figure out calories when your mouth is watering...

I guess I must've done it wrong because I didn't lose a single pound. Also, I have since become allergic/sensetive to eggs, so maybe that is why I didn't lose. Or it could be because I combined it with JUDDD... was hoping for a loss. Oh well.

Melisa, I hope you find a combination that suits you splendidly. It seems to take a lot of experimenting to discover which foods, which amounts of those foods, as well as ranges of CHO, PRO, and FAT that one does best with. And that seems to change with hormonal changes, seasons, temperature, age, stress, etc.

"Protein metabolism requires some insulin response and any excess protein will be mostly converted to glucose, which requires a considerable amount of insulin to be used."
---Peter DobromylskyjMaintainers over-55 Thread

I guess I must've done it wrong because I didn't lose a single pound. Also, I have since become allergic/sensetive to eggs, so maybe that is why I didn't lose. Or it could be because I combined it with JUDDD... was hoping for a loss. Oh well.

It's possible that combinding it with JUDD made you not loose any weight. What did your UP & DD menus look like?

Hi, Lizzie. It's lovely to see you too. Thanks for your kind thoughts. I hope you are doing splendidly.

I neglected to answer the part of the question about the origins of the meat and fat food plan. Those with ancestors in the northern parts of the globe, before the advent of agriculture, ate what they could hunt. They ate the whole animal, bones, marrow, the inside parts, even the contents of the stomach (which gave them micronutrients from the plants the animals had eaten). Dr. Michael Eades has posted about the pre-agricultural diet of human beings, on his blog. (A few berries, herbs, leaves and roots were added, as found, in regions where such things grew.)

Dr. Wolfgang Lutz writes about this in his book, Life Without Bread. Dr. Lutz called the diet since the advent of agriculture, the real "fad diet".

Dr. Blake Donaldson was the first doctor to write about a pre-agricultural diet for helping patients (heart disease, diabetes, arthritis, allergies, obesity, etc.), AFAIK, in his book, Strong Medicine, copyright 1961. (Dr. Donaldson started putting his patients on meat and fat diets, sometimes with one serving of veg/fruit, in the 1920s.) Dr. Donaldson interviewed museum curators at the American Museum of Natural History, as well as the explorer, Vilhjalmur Stefansson, about what our ancestors ate, and their health.

Dr. Richard MacKarness wrote about the diet of our ancestors in his book, Eat Fat and Grow Slim, ca. 1960 (depending on the edition one reads).

To put the proportions of the fatty meat diet in short form: fatty meat, including offal and bone marrow, in the proportion of 80% meat fat, and 20% protein, of total calories. This is what Dr. Donaldson and Dr. MacKarness recommended. Drs. Kekwick and Gawan had some of their patients on 90% fat and 10% protein to lose weight. Dr. Alfred Pennington's writings and work are very much worthwhile reading, too. His success putting patients on LCHF diets put LC diets in the news. Here is a paper of his from 1953 on LCHF diets for obesity. Dr. Donaldson also had patients in hospitals on meat, three times a day, and they recovered from many ailments. His book is fascinating reading.

Sunny, I use heavy cream or half-and-half, and butter, along with the meat, meat fat, offal, bone broths, eggs, fish, and bits of plant matter. If one has no intolerance for dairy products, such as lactose or casein intolerance, or sensitivity to amines, there is no nutritional reason to avoid them, AFAIK. Some find that they lose weight by leaving out the cream, cheese, etc., even when replacing those calories with beef fat. Some leave out particular foods, and do not replace them with anything containing calories.

Hope this all helps.

Wow - AMAZING post. THANK YOU so much for this great info. I'm saving it so I can check out the links. You've encapsulated in one post so much good, supportive info for LC lifestyle!

__________________
Tracey
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"...had we been discussing disorders of growth - why some people grow to be more than seven feet tall and others never make it to four feet - the only subject of discussion would be the hormones and enzymes that regulate growth. And yet, when we're discussing a disorder in which the defining symptom is the abnormal growth of our fat tissue, the hormones and enzymes that regulate that growth are considered irrelevant."
- Gary Taubes, Why We Get Fat