Good Ideas

As my knowledge of all things Tolkien is far inferior to that of some things Wiki, I want to suggest some things...

First of all: Page titles such as Barahir grandson of Faramir should be avoided as much as possible. Only when there are more than one Barahirs should this be used. If you have to do this, do it this way: Barahir (grandson of Faramir) so you don't forget whether or not you added that dratted comma...

Further it might be an idea to add a sort of "pub" for this kind of discussions. - Bokkie 18:04, 3 Sep 2005 (EDT)

Great points. Barahir is one of those names that are used quite frequently, i.e. Barahir son of Bregor, Barahir son of Hador, [[Barahir grandson of
Faramir]], etc. In the beginning I was debating whether to do the parenthesis or not, but now that you bring it up, it is most likely something that we need to use.

A portal for discussion other than the main page is a good idea too, I'll try and think of a good name for something, although Portal might work, heh.

Feedback

Thanks for the compliment :) It's people like you who keep me motivated. --Hyarion 18:45, 15 October 2005 (EDT)

I've got to second this user's enthusiasim. I've recently gone back into the Silmarillion and stumbled upon this wiki. It's amazing. Far better than others I've seen. I especially appreciate the panoply of images. It really gives a kick to a 300 word article on some third string elf who died in the First Age. I also want to compliment you people on the new skin. It's both more stylized and more functional than the previous one. This just keeps getting better and better. Thanks a million. --Kosure 14:25, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Hi Kosure, thanks for your feedback, it is statements like yours which bring a smile to our face and encourage us to improve the wiki even more, as we still have so far to go. We look forward to seeing you around in the future. --Hyarion 16:25, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Hello Gimli, yes our content is under the same license, GNU FDL as Wikipedia. Any articles derived from Wikipedia will be rewritten so we have no plans to add an acknowledgement on the articles at this time. Wikicities is free to copy our content but it is disappointing to see so many wikis working against eachother. --Hyarion 10:26, 6 March 2006 (EST)

Hi Hyarion, I was doing alot of work on the lotr wiki without realising this site existed until a few days ago. now Im not sure what to do since the lotr wikicities community is going fairly well but has nowhere near as many articles as here. not sure if its worth trying to copy or what - perhaps there could be some way we could agree to format/arrange articles differently to justify having 2 tolkien wikis Gimli 19:47, 6 March 2006 (EST)

Ya I'm not really sure either. There's also The Tolkien Wiki and a couple other wikis out there too. I honestly can't think of any aspects the two wikis would differ on off the top of my head but let me know if you think of anything. I know Robin from the lotr wiki said he was going to concentrate on The Lord of the Rings and since we cover more than just that they didn't want to merge. Competition is always nice but I just don't like watching us waste our time doing the same things. Let me know what I can do. --Hyarion 20:39, 6 March 2006 (EST)

That sounds alright to me especially since I am not very familiar with The Silmarillion related things - I guess just because of the wikis names wikicities could focus on LOTR and you on JRR Tolkien himself? Gimli 02:53, 9 March 2006 (EST)

Heh, unfortunately that would leave us with around 100 articles :p. Our goal since we started has been to focus on everything related to J.R.R. Tolkien, including his works, non-canon material, secondary material, collectibles, languages, films, the fans, etc. As we've devoted so much time to this already I think we will be continuing on this path, sorry. --Hyarion 11:36, 9 March 2006 (EST)

Main page redesign

I'm trying to redesign the main page a bit so as to not scare off any visitors. If you have any suggestions just let me know and I'll add them. The introduction text should probably be rewritten, possibly shorter. I also think instead of a featured image and a featured article we could showcase a featured article with an image from that article, and a bit more text directly from the article. --Hyarion 16:12, 23 April 2006 (EDT)

IMO, the link to Welcome in the opening sentence is unnecessary, as the welcome message is just below it. Coupling the featured picture to the featured article is a sound idea if you'd ask me; gives the page some more coherence *thumbs up*. --Earendilyon 17:04, 23 April 2006 (EDT)

Hm, good point I can take it off for now, eventually I'd like to remove the welcome statement from the main page and add it to the welcome page, and then also add a Tolkien Gateway page with information about the site if the welcome is not enough (and link to that as well). Then we can focus on news / featured articles / navigation links, hopefully it will be self-explanatory enough that people won't get confused, though I doubt many even read the paragraph. I'll try and get a Featured article page rotation going so people can submit possible featured articles, vote on them, and move them onto the main page a bit faster, as now it's just random. --Hyarion 17:10, 23 April 2006 (EDT)

Personnally, I've no problem with a randomly chosen featured article. Why complicate things with voting and stuff? It also will point people to lesser know articles. If it's really a daily new featured article, it will liven things up a bit. Why not make it an hourly featured article, will pace the rotations circle a bit up (by a factor of 24, to be precise)! --Earendilyon 17:16, 23 April 2006 (EDT)

Hehe, hm, definitely a thought. I'll see if I can rig something to do it automatically but we might have to change it manually. What we could do is have Featured article/April 23 2006 and the main page could have [[:Featured article/{{CURRENTDAY}}]]. I think one reason people do vote for Featured articles as it allows competition for users to rewrite and tidy up articles in hopes that their work would be featured on the main page. And if we did this we could also have an Improvement center where we post articles that need to be improved. But combining the two by doing random featured articles would work great too. --Hyarion 17:22, 23 April 2006 (EDT)

Purpose of site?

This is going to come across badly, I'm sure, so I apologize in advance for my skepticism. But, er, what exactly is the purpose of the Tolkien Gateway as opposed to the various other Tolkien wikis online (or, for that matter, Wikipedia itself)? In particular, it looks like a number of the articles here are at least currently based on the corresponding entries from Wikipedia. What was the argument for branching them off to form a separate site rather than simply improving them in place? (Not that I object to the impulse to create one's own site, mind you! But I feel some level of concern about fragmentation of effort.) Steuard --128.135.152.14 12:24, 31 May 2006 (EDT)

Hyarion's response

Adding my own header as it looks like I've gone off and written a novel

Hello Steuard, what an honor to have you here, make yourself at home :) Don't worry, your question doesn't come across badly as why we are here is an important question.

Your first question is why should we be here when there are other Tolkien wikis, good question. We’ve been around for over 3 years now, well before much of the hype surrounding wikis and when everyone and their grandmother decided to have one. With almost 4,500 articles we are currently the largest and most active Tolkien-related wiki or encyclopedia for that matter. With hundreds of updates a day, we are really growing fast and it becomes much more than one person could do on their own.

There are a couple other wikis that I have knowledge of, The Tolkien Wiki being one. I’m not a fan of that particular engine and unfortunately the activity is minimal but Walter is a great guy. Then there is lotr.wikia.com which started later and though at first they stated they were concentrating on The Lord of the Rings it seems they have since changed and now have MERP related articles, I'm not sure where they are heading to be honest (not to sound rude I hope as I honestly don't). They also have advertisements and are a for-profit company, I don’t think the Tolkien Estate will be very pleased. There’s also a few non-English Tolkien wikis, Ardapedia and Kontu Wiki, I actually convinced Merri to start the Finnish wiki and he has done a great job with it. We are also considering expanding into other languages as well but we will probably concentrate on English for the next few years before trying to expand.

Wikipedia is a great project but unfortunately they can only concentrate on the major Tolkien-related articles. While we focus on everything, including essays, reviews, music, publications, collectibles, images, etc. Wookieepedia is an example of where we are heading as they have well over 30,000 articles, by far too many for any environment not specializing on the subject.

You will notice that some articles have roots from Wikipedia, yes. When we started out we borrowed some content from them as is allowed with the GNU FDL. However we have greatly improved on those articles and have been rewriting them from the ground up constantly. You will find many of our editors on the site still contribute to the Tolkien articles on Wikipedia and we are by no means trying to mimic what they do.

It seems the above still doesn’t create a convincing answer so here are some raw projects that we are working on that we would not be able to accomplish on Wikipedia:

We are listing all Amon Hen, Mallorn, Beyond Bree, Orcrist, LotR Fan Club, Tolkien Journal, Parma Nole, Lembas Extra, Arda, etc. journals and putting their contents and cover page on their own articles. The article will of course contain links to purchase the back issue as well as the official site of the publication.

We also received the rights this week to store all of the Fraud of the Rings comics, this is something not even freely available on the official site.

Now that just looks like one big advertisement…sorry about that. If you need me to be more specific on something please let me know. We are always very open to new ideas and if you have any suggestions please let us know.

One thing I’ve been meaning to talk to you about is linking to your FAQ as well as the newsgroups. What we’ve been doing with Tolkien forums is when there is a specific topic being discussed, such as the whereabouts of the Entwives, we link our article to their thread. I’d like to do this with both the Meta-FAQ and newsgroups so for example on our article on the Shire we could link to your FAQ on whether the Shire was meant to be England, etc.

Thanks for dropping by as it means a lot to us, and keep up the great work on your sites! --Hyarion 14:05, 31 May 2006 (EDT)

Good answer. :) It does sound like you'll be much freer to add information on "minor" topics here than you would be on a broad site like Wikipedia; I think you've convinced me that it's a good idea. I hope that some level of cross-fertilization goes on between the community here and the community there.

As for my Meta-FAQ (and related work), you are of course welcome to link to any bits of it that you think would be useful. (That's something else that some folks might have a problem with on Wikipedia, come to think of it.) I've always wished that I had time to track down the best Usenet newsgroup threads to link to for each of my FAQ topics, but real life keeps me too busy these days to consider such a major project. It would have been much easier if, like you, I'd started keeping track of the threads at the same time that I started writing the FAQ! In any case, best wishes with the site, and many thanks for your detailed answer to my question. Steuard --128.135.152.14 16:23, 31 May 2006 (EDT)

Great answer, Hyarion! I applaud your ringing defense and statement of purpose of this fine Wiki. You really covered a lot of ground here. I joined up a year to make some solid contributions to a developing LOTR wiki, and I have some humble contribs. Hopefully I'll be making more in the future. All power to the Gateway!--Theoden1 15:30, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

Quotes

Some wikis (namely the Star Wars wiki) use quotes to describe articles. i.e. "A demon of the ancheint world. This foe is beyond any of you." -Gandalf would describe the Balrog. Could we start doing this? -Lord Aragorn1414 14:31, 17 July 2006 (EDT)

Hello Lord Vad...Aragorn, we like to think of Wookieepedia as our sister wiki as we tend to borrow quite a few ideas from them. Quotes at the top of articles to describe the character/place/item/etc are one of these ideas. We haven't fully implemented all the articles but some such as Hobbits or The Silmarillion or Dragons, etc. display this idea. This is something we definitely wish to expand on and if you have any quotes you would like to use feel free to do so. --Hyarion 14:40, 17 July 2006 (EDT)

Canon and other things

First off, I'm wondering what "canon" this encyclopedia will use. As of now, it's inconsistent: for example, there are two Glorfindels, but has Orodreth, not Fingon, as Gil-galad's father.

Secondly, all the non-movie art is very nice, since I don't care much for the Jackson films having, in general, "supremacy" through images (quite irritating in Wikipedia, though the editors have lately arranged adaptation pictures in tables - gives equal treatment to all, not just the Jackson ones). Ideally, all appropriate articles should have artworks before film images.

Finally, could someone make a The Lord of the Rings: Weapons and Warfare article, so we can cut it up (i.e. point out some total inventions) for the non-book readers? Info from that book has been inserted in Wikipedia articles; thankfully they were deleted. Rog 22:49, 15 August 2006 (EDT)

Hello Rog, I've addressed the first issue at Forum:Canon scale so I'll reply to the other two. I'm glad you are a fan of the illustrations, as am I. We try and bring new images to the reader's eyes by putting the illustrations first but I think there are some circumstances where the film images are more accurate and will have to be put first. Accuracy vs. Beauty of the illustration is yet another difficult topic.

Great idea on the Weapons and Warfare article, I'll try and have one up by tomorrow. --Hyarion 23:15, 15 August 2006 (EDT)

Top Editors

Hyarion, I'd like to suggest that you change the Top Editors list again. Dwarf Lord at least should be added, being the fourth highest, and still picking up speed. --Narfil Palùrfalas 09:01, 19 September 2006 (EDT)

Thanks Narfil, Main Page has been updated. Maybe I'll work on having the page grab the top 5 dynamically. --Hyarion 11:49, 19 September 2006 (EDT)

A-Z List

I've moved the A-Z list up closer to the top as I have a feeling a lot of people were not noticing it there at the bottom, I'm still not 100% satisfied with its current position but I think it will at least get noticed more. If you guys think otherwise just let me know. --Hyarion 17:41, 27 June 2007 (EDT)

I think it's fine there. I admit I had hardly noticed it before. At least it's more visible. --Narfil Palùrfalas 17:46, 27 June 2007 (EDT)

Featured Quote on Main Page

Hi, wouldn't it be good, if at least once a month a new quote would appear here? The current one is from the last year, i think. ;-) - —Unsigned comment byEldarion Telcontar (talk • contribs).

It definitely is about time we have both a new quote and a new featured article. The lack of new quotes stems from various long-lasting discussions on whether to use a random quote from a pool of Tolkien quotes, or to weekly/monthly/etc vote on a specific quote. We're also working on a website dedicated to quotes which we hoped to grab randomly from there but I'd rather not wait until that project is finished. I think a good time to start a new quote will be once we launch our new skin. --Hyarion 01:35, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

As we are starting a new featured era, it would be a good idea to change Past Featured Articles to Featured Articles. It's more accurate. --Theoden1 21:03, 12 May 2008 (EDT)

I agree, the Featured Article Project is coming along nicely, now its time to focus on quotes. What needs to be done exactly? Do we need need more quotes written down, or is there some fancy code that needs to be entered to generate the quotes? As Ive said many times before, not a big tech guy, but I'll be glad to help where I can.--Quidon88 21:05, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

There is this one Main Page/Quote page, that has a random quote generator, but unfortunately, all are unlinked. -- Ederchil 23:53, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

There is a Nominations page for quotes also. Maybe we could nominate them ourselves? The good/relevant/preferred ones? ~~ Þelma 03:05, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

Þelma, the Featured Quote era has begun. Click on the link on the main page and take a look at the current quote nominated.--Theoden1 13:03, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

Theoden1, you make it sound like an world event. :) And far from me to contradict that ;) I will take a look. ~~ Þelma 13:28, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

Shouldn't Past Featured quotes be changed into Featured quotes like it was done with the Featured Articles? The Past Featured Quotes are to find at Featured quotes/History now. -- Eldarion Telcontar 16:40, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

Featured Article on Main Page

I'm just wondering why "Aragorn II" is still "Today's featured article". Maybe i'm mistaken but isn't "Witch-king of Angmar" already sucessfully elected and hasn't "Gandalf" already five "Agree"s? Wouldn't it be about time to change the Featured Article after so many months? -- Eldarion Telcontar 15:12, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Elvish Word of the Day

I favour just "word of the day"; also give minor languages some screentime. -- Ederchil(Talk/Contribs/Edits) 21:44, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Of course. Can it be done? How? And by whom? Sage 08:27, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

We probably need a stash of them, and select 30 at the beginning of each month. With subpages, it can be done. But I don't know where exactly on the main page this can fit...-- Ederchil(Talk/Contribs/Edits) 09:08, 29 May 2009 (UTC)