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Re: ** The Official 2012 MLB Thread! **

Boy,what an ugly end to the Yankee season. Bad CC, bad offense.....and as Joe Girardi(God he has nice guns watching his meeting with the media after the game...hate being shallow but he has nice arms)added it's not fair to blame it all on ARod. Has had a miserable playoffs but he had lots of company in regards to futile production with the big bats in the Yanks lineup. There was just about NOBODY who had good at bats after the first game when the Yanks tied it 4-4 in the ninth on a two run shot by Raul Ibanez.

Yankees being swept by Detroit begs the question how can the Yanks retool with few great prospects and with such a need to blend in youth not really being able to afford giving up the few really good ones(mostly in the lower minors). Spending on plus 30 flawed players like Curtis Granderson and Nick Swisher would hurt them and as incredible as it sounds they may give Alex Rodriguez away paying the vast majority of his contract just so he doesn't clog up their budget for the next five years at an average of 23 million. Derek Jeter looks like he's reacted to surgery as well as could be expected and is likely to be ready to play by spring training...but when you're pinning hopes on the healthy return of a 39 year old veteran, even one as venerable as Jeter you've got fundamental flaws on your club it may take time to correct.

In the other league the Giants were downed 8-3 by a Cards club that seems on a mission. Great start by Adam Wainwright who even without Carlos Beltran a second straight game was given a ton of support from the Cards offense. Only a two run shot by Giants third baseman Pablo Sandoval in the ninth made the score slightly more respectable. He's not around much anymore but I know Abs is in his glory with the Cards on the verge of their third WS appearance since 2006(Met fans will NEVER forget that one in particular,either) Funny how Carlos Beltran goes from taking a called strike three perfect curve by Adam Wainwright to end the Met's NL hopes that year to being a crucial part of the Card's season and playoff drive. That's why baseball is so great....random stuff leading up to karmic bliss!

Re: ** The Official 2012 MLB Thread! **

Originally Posted by Ninja108

Seeing what I saw in this series..yuck. Never have I seen a Yankee team look so bad. Best wishes to the Tigers as they represent the AL.

Ninja,though the Yanks are #2 in my heart compared to my Mets I can't think of anything in recent years with the Yankees that represents quite as dismal and disillusioning moment for Yankee fans as this postseason Yankee debacle. If George were still here God help who would feel the sting of his wrath....A-Rod tops the list but almost EVERYONE just stunk. Now A-Rod says he wants to stay....if there is ANY way to get him to those fools in Florida,do it!!! Pay 80% of his salary....just lose him!!! Granderson, Swisher,Martin, Teixeira... so many flawed players....you can get away with a good but not great supporting cast if you had a couple of stars like Fielder and Cabrera to anchor the lineup augmented by a fine rising centerfielder in ex-Yankee Austin Jackson. And consistent great pitching but CC as good as he usually is was a notch below this year and no other Yankee starter has that kind of persona to ride the team through the playoffs,other than Andy Petitte and we can't count on him next year. Agreed wishing the best to the Tigers on a great run that sees them in the World Series...perhaps against the Cards who broke their hearts in 2006.

Re: ** The Official 2012 MLB Thread! **

Still not the worst Yankee loss I've seen. Game 7 of 01..nuff said.
As for George...while I do agree changes need to be made and more accountablity,more often then not his moves hurt the Yankees,not helped.

Re: ** The Official 2012 MLB Thread! **

My home team is Detroit Tigers. I'm a Michigan native who wants this club, which defeated Yankees on Oct. 18 to win their 11th American League [AL] pennant in franchise history, to end up winning the 2012 World Series.

The three other teams, including Yankees, listed above having advanced to their League Championship Series means Tigers is the only one that have not won a World Series within the last three years. In fact, Detroit hasn't won it all since they went wire-to-wire in their legendary 1984 season under the management of the late George "Sparky" Anderson.

Detroit has four World Series titles: 1935, 1945, 1968, and 1984. In their ten previous Fall Classics, Tigers played Chicago Cubs four times (1907, 1908, 1935, 1945) and Cardinals three times (1934, 1968, 2006). Seven of ten … against the same two teams. That seems claustrophobic. The three other World Series were played against three separate clubs: Pittsburgh Pirates (1909), Cincinnati Reds (1940), and San Diego Padres (1984).

Right now, Game #07 of the National League Championship Series between Cards and Giants is in the bottom of the 2nd inning. San Francisco is ahead 1 to 0. We'll find out how it ends tonight. The winner captures the National League [NL] pennant, of course, and will play Detroit Tigers for the title of the 2012 World Series.

Re: ** The Official 2012 MLB Thread! **

Originally Posted by RazorzEdge88

I want the Tigers in the mix. Their owner is a rare breed - a guy who actually cares about the success of his team. He expanded the Tigers payroll out of genuine interest in the team's success, and became the only owner in baseball to approve of an operating loss for his team.

You got your wish dude I think the Tigers deserve this chance and although the Giants will give em a run for the money I see Detroit takin it

Re: ** The Official 2012 MLB Thread! **

I would NEVER count the Giants out.... kinda feel bad for Cards fans because the Cards could not find a way to seal the deal. No offense in the last few games, plenty of mistakes,pitching couldn't hold on. Complete opposite of the Giants who took advantage of almost every opportunity and would NEVER go away. This will go at least six games,I'm going with the Giants over Detroit.

Re: ** The Official 2012 MLB Thread! **

Originally Posted by sonny10305

That's sorta what you said about the Yankees......how did that work out for ya

True....but the Giants do have a very team oriented approach towards winning. Yanks depended basically on CC and home runs in bunches. Gives Mets fans like us hope though....you don't need superstars busting the budget. You need a couple of great players, some great complimentary players, some luck, a lot of heart and never say die approach.

Re: ** The Official 2012 MLB Thread! **

Originally Posted by Sausy

True....but the Giants do have a very team oriented approach towards winning. Yanks depended basically on CC and home runs in bunches. Gives Mets fans like us hope though....you don't need superstars busting the budget. You need a couple of great players, some great complimentary players, some luck, a lot of heart and never say die approach.

I know you reference is towards the Giants but you just described our Mets to a T

Re: ** The Official 2012 MLB Thread! **

Not shocked by last night's game at all. All due respect to the Tiger's pitching staff,the Yanks had been reeling for a couple of months and were lucky to get by the ALDS.
Yet the media fell all over themselved proclaiming them unbeatable because they beat the Yankees and I think it went to the Tigers heads.
I'm sure they'll bounce back but this is a wake up call for them.

Re: ** The Official 2012 MLB Thread! **

Originally Posted by sonny10305

I know you reference is towards the Giants but you just described our Mets to a T

Not QUITE yet but getting there.....our pitching staff with young studs in Jon Niese, Matt Harvey and the upcoming Zack Wheeler ( plus RA Dickey,Johann Santana and Dillon Gee) is promising. Keeping DWright and continued growth by Ike Davis and Daniel Murphy, Ruben Tejada and either by acquisition or development a couple of our outfield spots plus Josh Thole has to provide the contact hitting spark he did early on. But if we improve and add a couple of grinder types with heart and dsire as well as talent to reinforce the posivity Terry Collins has been preaching to the boys and most impotantly, stabilize our bullpen so we can be in a position to win games even if like the Giants we don't ordinarily score a ton of runs we will be in a situation that if we take advantage of the opportunity can be a serious playoff contender even without a flashy, superstar filled roster with very generous budgeting.

BTW my prediction of a Giants WS victory is working out pretty well for me in the early going!

Originally Posted by Ninja108

Not shocked by last night's game at all. All due respect to the Tiger's pitching staff,the Yanks had been reeling for a couple of months and were lucky to get by the ALDS.
Yet the media fell all over themselved proclaiming them unbeatable because they beat the Yankees and I think it went to the Tigers heads.
I'm sure they'll bounce back but this is a wake up call for them.

Yep...don't think ANYONE expected Verlander to be so ordinary,though. Kudos to the sparkplug Pablo Sandoval's World Seeries tying three homers in a game...the legend of the Panda grows! Barry Zito gave em more than enough allowing only one run in five and two thirds innings and the bullpen capably took it from there. It is strange though to see a World Series star like Tim Lincecum pitching out of the pen, as his season unfortunately has seen him go from "The Freak" to "WTF is wrong with him"? But hopefully he can get that spark he had back ...for now I'm sure he's enjoying doing anything to help contribute towards a second title for the San Francisco Giants in two years.

Re: ** The Official 2012 MLB Thread! **

Giants go up 3-0 over Detroit as Ryan Vogelsong continues his strong playoff run going five and two thirds scoreless innings and Tim Lincecum continued his dominating relief efforts pitching two plus innings in a 2-0 Giants triumph going back to Detroit....Detroit's power duo of Miguel Cabrera and Prince Fielder continue their WS futility as the Tigers seem to be now on the receiving end of what they gave the Yankees. Just total futility, three shutouts in a row which is a WS record to open up the series. Think sonny has to think again about dissin' my Giants prediction of WS victory...though I DID say 7 games, not anticipating the potential of a Giant sweep at all!

Re: ** The Official 2012 MLB Thread! **

Originally Posted by Sausy

Giants go up 3-0 over Detroit as Ryan Vogelsong continues his strong playoff run going five and two thirds scoreless innings and Tim Lincecum continued his dominating relief efforts pitching two plus innings in a 2-0 Giants triumph going back to Detroit....Detroit's power duo of Miguel Cabrera and Prince Fielder continue their WS futility as the Tigers seem to be now on the receiving end of what they gave the Yankees. Just total futility, three shutouts in a row which is a WS record to open up the series. Think sonny has to think again about dissin' my Giants prediction of WS victory...though I DID say 7 games, not anticipating the potential of a Giant sweep at all!

Ooops..my bad....Barry Zito allowed one run in the first game, past two were shutouts but the Tigers did score 2 additional runs in the first game after Zito left.

Re: ** The Official 2012 MLB Thread! **

Originally Posted by Sausy

Think sonny has to think again about dissin' my Giants prediction of WS victory...though I DID say 7 games, not anticipating the potential of a Giant sweep at all!

Nah not at all I have no dog in this fight just thought the Tigers were a better team but it will be all good for the Giants cause they are in the National League after all. I hate to see it end so quickly wanna just hang on to baseball for as long as possible before the long cold winter without it. But at least us Mets fans will have Kevin Burkhardts Mets Hot Stove which starts up again on SNY November 15

Re: ** The Official 2012 MLB Thread! **

Yep, sonny and Ninja. Giants deserve this and Detroit proved streaky offensively. Verlander,Cabrera and Fielder were no match for great team pitching and Marco Scutaro! In the end, clutch team work is more important than players with gaudy statistics and huge contracts....hope for our Mets maybe, sonny that it isn't necessarily a long climb for our Mets to get into serious playoff contention.

Ninja, at least you get some satisfaction the Tigers turned into the Yanks, as sonny said. Wish it was a more competitive WS, six or seven games. This one isn't going to go down as a thriller by any means because it ended in a Giants sweep but congratul
tions to the Giants on a job well done.

Re: ** The Official 2012 MLB Thread! **

Originally Posted by sonny10305

Nah not at all I have no dog in this fight just thought the Tigers were a better team but it will be all good for the Giants cause they are in the National League after all. I hate to see it end so quickly wanna just hang on to baseball for as long as possible before the long cold winter without it. But at least us Mets fans will have Kevin Burkhardts Mets Hot Stove which starts up again on SNY November 15

I'm about to go into baseball withdrawal,too...oh, I hate that too but looking forward to KB's show and especially your Mets Hot Stove thread!

Re: ** The Official 2012 MLB Thread! **

Not shocked at all by the Tigers sweep. As with the Yankees showing the flaws they had all year in the ALCS,the Tigers showed the ones they had in the World Series.
If Cabrera and Fielder could be held hitless,most of the TIgers offense would go along with them. That and their bullpen proved to be their doom.
COngrats to the Giants,who were the better team and IMO,were the best team in this postseason from the start.

Re: ** The Official 2012 MLB Thread! **

Have to mention the passing of Marvin Miller at 95. His confrontational style made him unpopular with owners and wouldn't work in today's baesball landscape but he brought the MLB players from virtual indentured servitude bound to their teams unless traded or discarded to free agency which gave players a great say in the affairs of the game as well as far greater control over therir destinies. Arbitration, free agency, so much that Marvin Millers iron will forged by his direction of the steelworkers union that baseball players seem to take for granted today at times. A great man who even for his controversially combative personality should be in the Baesball Hall of Fame simply for how greatly his leadership helped transform the game.

Re: ** The Official 2012 MLB Thread! **

We might gripe about the contracts of today but as you pointed out,they were basically treated like slaves until Miller stood up for them. It's a shame he wasn't put in the HOF.

Oh yes, Ninja. Ten year 200+ million dollar contracts aren't great for baseball but what existed before was truly indentured servitude even for the best players and it is the players that make the game memorable and part of the national fabric. Marvin Miller gave dignity and equal footing to the players... he revolutionized organized sports and how can he not be recognized for changing the game so inherently from an unequal exploitation to a tremendous revenue maker worth billions it is today? Marvin Miller belongs in the HOF without question.

Re: ** The Official 2012 MLB Thread! **

The Dodgers are going to collapse and go bankrupt soon! Hasn't history taught us that over spending leads to nothing! They are over paying for mid to average players! I am not going to cry when things go south for them, but laugh. As the post above, money doesn't buy rings.

Re: ** The Official 2012 MLB Thread! **

gencySoon we'll see if big checkbook defeats big teamwork. It never seems to fail...some team gets flush with money but you make mistakes and you get hamstrung by payroll infllexibility for years...look at the Giants, paying Barry Zito huge bucks for seven yearts when he just wasn't a lockdown ace deserving of the contract. He did, however, prove invaluable this year in the playoffs, so I guess some good came out of it. But they never made the mistake again and don't seem poised to overpay for a front of the rotation starter like that again, not for seven years.

Marvin Miller, who recently passed away did a great service to baseball pllayers and the fans and game as a whole when he fought for free agency and arbitration. Fought for the right of players to have some control over their livelihood...where for most of baseball's history they were totally under the control of the ownership. But huge contracts not just for superstars but just solid/good ones come with great risk of blowing up in the faces of baseball organizations, and often do.How much is enough? I read a couple of days ago where Scott Boras, super agent to the superstars, complained a club like the Yankees weren't spending ENOUGH! His calculation was an organization like the Yanks should spend $300 million dollars on salaries.. the current ownership, though under Hal Steinbrenner is much less prone to the outlandish,no expenses spared spending bursts of his dad George Steinbrenner and wants to get the salary of the club for luxury tax purposes to no more than $189 mil in 2014. I bet he hopes the Dodgers and other flushed with money organizations see superstars and pennants in their futures and will get some sucker to bite on the next WTF???!!! signing.

Players should control their destiny, but going for the highest dollar leads to contracts which just cannot be justified. Zack Greinke, the second highest paid right hander in history? He's been good, had one great year....guess LA is betting the ranch on superstars with their new money loaded investors and their astronomical quarter billion a year( for the next 20 years) television rights contract. Someone to hate MORE than the Yankees!