I have a very reliable source who just informed me of their source claiming Gilbert went off on MB tonight to the tune of MB threatening to walk away right now. Original source works amongst Gilbert's interests in CTown, whether Cavs or Quicken I am not sure.

Just throwing it out there for others to maybe reiterate if they hear or know of anything.

Again I don't normally do this so if Rich feels this needs to be removed b/c no further evidence/souce is there fine.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

FUDU wrote:I don't have a history of this but I'm putting it out there.

I have a very reliable source who just informed me of their source claiming Gilbert went off on MB tonight to the tune of MB threatening to walk away right now. Original source works amongst Gilbert's interests in CTown, whether Cavs or Quicken I am not sure.

Just throwing it out there for others to maybe reiterate if they hear or know of anything.

Again I don't normally do this so if Rich feels this needs to be removed b/c no further evidence/souce is there fine.

I'm sure this is possibly true, but... who cares?

He's not walking away right now. If the Cavs lose this series, he's toast whether or not this is true.

FUDU wrote:I don't have a history of this but I'm putting it out there.

I have a very reliable source who just informed me of their source claiming Gilbert went off on MB tonight to the tune of MB threatening to walk away right now. Original source works amongst Gilbert's interests in CTown, whether Cavs or Quicken I am not sure.

Just throwing it out there for others to maybe reiterate if they hear or know of anything.

Again I don't normally do this so if Rich feels this needs to be removed b/c no further evidence/souce is there fine.

If you can't trust a message board rumor, who can you trust? Screw it. Gilbert better get in someone shit.

FUDU wrote:I don't have a history of this but I'm putting it out there.

I have a very reliable source who just informed me of their source claiming Gilbert went off on MB tonight to the tune of MB threatening to walk away right now. Original source works amongst Gilbert's interests in CTown, whether Cavs or Quicken I am not sure.

Just throwing it out there for others to maybe reiterate if they hear or know of anything.

Again I don't normally do this so if Rich feels this needs to be removed b/c no further evidence/souce is there fine.

I'm sure this is possibly true, but... who cares?

He's not walking away right now. If the Cavs lose this series, he's toast whether or not this is true.

Just posting it as to point out shit might really being hitting a fan tonight.

Not looking to be right or get any kind of credit.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

FUDU wrote:I don't have a history of this but I'm putting it out there.

I have a very reliable source who just informed me of their source claiming Gilbert went off on MB tonight to the tune of MB threatening to walk away right now. Original source works amongst Gilbert's interests in CTown, whether Cavs or Quicken I am not sure.

Just throwing it out there for others to maybe reiterate if they hear or know of anything.

Again I don't normally do this so if Rich feels this needs to be removed b/c no further evidence/souce is there fine.

I'm sure this is possibly true, but... who cares?

He's not walking away right now. If the Cavs lose this series, he's toast whether or not this is true.

Just posting it as to point out shit might really being hitting a fan tonight.

Or maybe he's sick of the "Woe is me" attitude, just like Phil Savage?

Dunno. Personally, I always thought LeB was a prick. A super-talented prick that I wanted to stay in Cleveland for the length of his career, a prick I could easily overlook b/c of what he brought to the table, but a prick nonetheless.

He's not going to shoulder the blame. He ain't gonna wax poetic about his struggles. I am thinking he might want to get a gig on TV with David Blaine and show him how to disappear on a basketball court. But, should they win, he will be talking about himself in the third person about how great he is. It's time to put up or shut up.

"It's all about winning for me, and I think the Cavs are committed to doing that," he said. "But at the same time I've given myself options to this point, and like I said before, me and my team, we have a game plan that we're going to execute, and we'll see what we get."

FUDU wrote:I don't have a history of this but I'm putting it out there.

I have a very reliable source who just informed me of their source claiming Gilbert went off on MB tonight to the tune of MB threatening to walk away right now. Original source works amongst Gilbert's interests in CTown, whether Cavs or Quicken I am not sure.

Just throwing it out there for others to maybe reiterate if they hear or know of anything.

Again I don't normally do this so if Rich feels this needs to be removed b/c no further evidence/souce is there fine.

I'm sure this is possibly true, but... who cares?

He's not walking away right now. If the Cavs lose this series, he's toast whether or not this is true.

Seems to me that LBJ is pouting on the court. Why this is? Who knows? Power struggle with Roker is very possible.

From what Windy is saying, FUDU's rumor, and from what I can see on the court, they have a coup on their hands.

The question is, will they put their egos away and fix this thing for game 6 and salvage the series?

If Brown is too stupid to defer to LBJ's wishes then he deserves the ass-canning he is going to get about 5 minutes after the season is over. I'm not saying Lebron SHOULD have this type of control, but at this juncture SOMETHING HAS TO GIVE or we are going to be "witnessing" a funeral Thursday in possibly more ways than one.

Why did I have to be born in Cleveland?....between this and the shit weather this week I don't know how much more I can take

FUDU wrote:I don't have a history of this but I'm putting it out there.

I have a very reliable source who just informed me of their source claiming Gilbert went off on MB tonight to the tune of MB threatening to walk away right now. Original source works amongst Gilbert's interests in CTown, whether Cavs or Quicken I am not sure.

Just throwing it out there for others to maybe reiterate if they hear or know of anything.

Again I don't normally do this so if Rich feels this needs to be removed b/c no further evidence/souce is there fine.

comish wrote:Seems to me that LBJ is pouting on the court. Why this is? Who knows? Power struggle with Roker is very possible.

From what Windy is saying, FUDU's rumor, and from what I can see on the court, they have a coup on their hands.

The question is, will they put their egos away and fix this thing for game 6 and salvage the series?

If Brown is too stupid to defer to LBJ's wishes then he deserves the ass-canning he is going to get about 5 minutes after the season is over. I'm not saying Lebron SHOULD have this type of control, but at this juncture SOMETHING HAS TO GIVE or we are going to be "witnessing" a funeral Thursday in possibly more ways than one.

Why did I have to be born in Cleveland?....between this and the shit weather this week I don't know how much more I can take

Bron was trying to be Bron and get his teammates involved.

Again, they fucked up too many bunny shots, lost on too many 50-50's, and clanged too many open J's. Then Bron had an uncharacteristically shitty game. happens; even to him.

Perfect storm.

IMhO, only Shaq had the ego play running from when he wasn't put back in the game in game 4 and we ran too many 1st options for him that he banged around with the touch of a man playing with hooks for arms.

Beyond Brown, however, there are other responsibilities. It lies with the captains and that means LeBron James. While he will be the first to tell you that he's a leader and you can see that his teammates are fully invested in that situation, he has not seemed to act like one during much during this series.First off, he's undermined his coach by acting lax after losses when Brown has been sounding alarm bells. It is James' personality not to be too worried about anything and it was not expected that he'd be throwing people into lockers and such. But his "we'll get 'em next game" philosophy has clearly backfired. With the exception of Game 3, despite all the handshakes and nonsense, the Cavs have been knocked on their heels in every game.It has further become problematic that James has been disengaged during the games. Not only has he fallen into the trap of "letting the game come to him," but he's been increasingly distant. In huddles he's looking at the ceiling or into the distance. It is not the James anyone on the team knows and his teammates and coaches have seen it. More problematic, they can't explain it and that is making the entire locker room uneasy. On Tuesday it was Zydrunas Ilgauskas and O'Neal that actually were more proactive. They were showing more leadership than James both on the floor and off the floor.There were two skirmishes on the court. One was with Kendrick Perkins and O'Neal and the other was with Mo Williams and Rajon Rondo. James showed no such fire and then didn't get get involved in the exchanges, staying off to the side.Whatever James says in the locker room behind the scenes stays there. In the past, it has been quite obvious that James has a huge role in everything that happens. Perhaps that is still the case. But the way his teammates are playing they have either tuned him out or he's not showing the same fire as he regularly did during the season.

You really think the performance of the rest of the team is not a result of LBJ right now? He gets all the credit in the world for "making these guys better". Well, these guys are NOT this bad. Mo is NOT this bad. Jamo is NOT this bad. West is NOT this bad.

Beyond Brown, however, there are other responsibilities. It lies with the captains and that means LeBron James. While he will be the first to tell you that he's a leader and you can see that his teammates are fully invested in that situation, he has not seemed to act like one during much during this series.First off, he's undermined his coach by acting lax after losses when Brown has been sounding alarm bells. It is James' personality not to be too worried about anything and it was not expected that he'd be throwing people into lockers and such. But his "we'll get 'em next game" philosophy has clearly backfired. With the exception of Game 3, despite all the handshakes and nonsense, the Cavs have been knocked on their heels in every game.It has further become problematic that James has been disengaged during the games. Not only has he fallen into the trap of "letting the game come to him," but he's been increasingly distant. In huddles he's looking at the ceiling or into the distance. It is not the James anyone on the team knows and his teammates and coaches have seen it. More problematic, they can't explain it and that is making the entire locker room uneasy. On Tuesday it was Zydrunas Ilgauskas and O'Neal that actually were more proactive. They were showing more leadership than James both on the floor and off the floor.There were two skirmishes on the court. One was with Kendrick Perkins and O'Neal and the other was with Mo Williams and Rajon Rondo. James showed no such fire and then didn't get get involved in the exchanges, staying off to the side.Whatever James says in the locker room behind the scenes stays there. In the past, it has been quite obvious that James has a huge role in everything that happens. Perhaps that is still the case. But the way his teammates are playing they have either tuned him out or he's not showing the same fire as he regularly did during the season.

You really think the performance of the rest of the team is not a result of LBJ right now? He gets all the credit in the world for "making these guys better". Well, these guys are NOT this bad. Mo is NOT this bad. Jamo is NOT this bad. West is NOT this bad.

I'm frustrated, but most of all I'm confused. I don't understand the LBJ I've seen for more than half this series.

Its not about numbers. Its about attitude. This wasn't a fucking bad game.

I don't know what it was, but it wasn't that.

I have never ever seen this from LeB before now.

Something's gotta be up. How else do you explain it? He's playing like he's got mono.

I agree, I just don't get it.

This is clearly the results of something going on off the court.

Be it the locker room, his personal life, I don't know what the fuck it is.

But something is wrong with LeBron James and it sure as shit has nothing to do with x's and o's. Got nothing to do with having a bad game, and it has nothing to do with his supporting cast.

Something's fucked up here.

I'm with you guys. It's like he didn't care. Lebron is entitled to "off nights" and of coarse a HUGE part of Lebrons game is getting everyone else involved with his AMAZING passing abilities. But, there's that and then there's last night. Last night he was just not there. I am so confused right now. I really just do not understand wtf is going on.

I'm just gonna call my shot now. If Lebron goes elsewhere after this year, no matter how shitty of a cast he has surrounding him, $5 says he wins the title and at least 6 members here light themselves on fire and commit suicide.

jb wrote:And Mo is that bad. And KG is killing Jamo. And Shaq is done.

Channelling Dennis Green.

SD :

JB my man ,Lebron went Paul Cruz with a basketball.

Yeah Mo is fer shit , and Mike Brown should be scrubbing out floors on a grocery store , butt Ray Charles can see that Bitch wearing #23 mailed it in.

The deeper question not that we're likely to find the answer is why.

But to deny your lieing eyes , man that shits fer Suckas.

Look at that entire bench thru the game , they played like death row victims with the hangman's noose in sight .

Uninspired fate accompli .

""All is well ""

SoulDawg

Is it possible, conceivable, even in a theoretical sense, that there is a middle ground?

Bron sucked and deserves some serious scrutany and criticism for a truly horrific game and this is a pivotal and defining moment coming up but the final chapter is not written; even for this series. Even for this season. And people want to write it for his career at age 25. Assinine.

True.

The complete judgement and character assasination of leBron over a career based on 2 games is just not balanced nor entirely rational right now. Ther is much overreaction heaped on a player who took the worst franchise outside of the Clippers and Grizz in the NBA and has single handedly turned them into a marquee franchise and contender with a mediocre at best surrounding cast.

True.

But no. There is no middle ground for Soul Dawg, who has never stumbled upon this forum until this morning. It is all hyperbole and zero sum.

Yawn.

Last week Tree arrived, this week you. It is almost as bad as having to watch the last 2 games of this series.

jb wrote:And Mo is that bad. And KG is killing Jamo. And Shaq is done.

Channelling Dennis Green.

SD :

JB my man ,Lebron went Paul Cruz with a basketball.

Yeah Mo is fer shit , and Mike Brown should be scrubbing out floors on a grocery store , butt Ray Charles can see that Bitch wearing #23 mailed it in.

The deeper question not that we're likely to find the answer is why.

But to deny your lieing eyes , man that shits fer Suckas.

Look at that entire bench thru the game , they played like death row victims with the hangman's noose in sight .

Uninspired fate accompli .

""All is well ""

SoulDawg

Is it possible, conceivable, even in a theoretical sense, that there is a middle ground?

Bron sucked and deserves some serious scrutany and criticism for a truly horrific game and this is a pivotal and defining moment coming up but the final chapter is not written; even for this series. Even for this season. And people want to write it for his career at age 25. Assinine.

True.

The complete judgement and character assasination of leBron over a career based on 2 games is just not balanced nor entirely rational right now. Ther is much overreaction heaped on a player who took the worst franchise outside of the Clippers and Grizz in the NBA and has single handedly turned them into a marquee franchise and contender with a mediocre at best surrounding cast.

True.

But no. There is no middle ground for Soul Dawg, who has never stumbled upon this forum until this morning. It is all hyperbole and zero sum.

Yawn.

Last week Tree arrived, this week you. It is almost as bad as having to watch the last 2 games of this series.

SD:

I Yawn while you Fawn all over that shit performance .

Bath in it and succor in the warmth .

You didn't know Tim Couch was dead either and still don't.

Game recognizes game .

In the Big games your best step up , and the lames step off.

If you think that kid was engaged trying his damndest and didn't give up then your the only one in the World who thinks all is well .

Something is very wrong with that team.

Yeah Mike Brown should have been gone three years ago , but that still ain't no excuse for Bron hanging everybody else out to dry.

Just because I don't frequent a Cavs forum or hhave the audacity to make you look at reality about your Boi King James don't give ya those kinda rights .

My wife is his biggest fan , and her pardner owned the law firm which guided him thru Saint mary's including all that stoopid shit with his wacky mammy when he jeopardized the sate Championship thru his indulgences. , so don't play me like no sucka sucka.

I call it like I see it , and this series all of a sudden looks like its the last thing in play.

The Mutha Fucka is clearing a way out a here from the way it looks in my corner .

To me it appears deeper than just Bouncin Browns round empty dome .

Thursday night , Boston will attempt to stab us in the heart burn us with gas and then drag us out in the sunlight they won't need his help.

But the Cavs Cleveland and all the long suffering faithful who follow Cleveland sports would certainly appreciate it if he could bother to be bothered .

JB, it's one thing to keep saying it's just a bad game when everyone else might just be completely overreacting. Columns from the media go against that, but they don't necessarily have more insight than us.

But how can you ignore Windhorst? Dude is THE source. And here's more from him from espn

Those numbers are not why James' performances have been shocking. Is it his nonchalant attitude that mixes with tentative play when he is trying to make something happen? That is what will be remembered for years and what has thrown so many of his supporters off balance.

It's throwing passes into teammates' feet or over their heads, the kind of lack of focus James never shows at this level. When he turns the ball over, it's usually because of his aggressiveness -- trying to squeeze in a pass or losing the ball in a crowd when fighting into a double- or triple-team.

It's standing quietly on the weak side of offensive plays, waiting to see whether the ball will come to him while his team is down on the scoreboard, as if he were biding his time in the second quarter of a game in mid-February on a long road trip.

It's staring into space during huddles instead of giving instructions to teammates or advice to coaches.

It's going back to biting his nails, a habit he thought he had kicked a year ago. It's no longer wearing his finest suits to games to show off his expensive wardrobe to the cameras, as was his custom.

In the Cavs' locker room, and next door in the team family room, and upstairs in the coaches' and executive offices, people who know James well are trying to figure it out. The truth is James' teammates have never seen him in this type of mood before, so passive and reactionary. Not the outgoing, over-the-top leader they have come to follow no matter how it might look on television.

James' family and friends are just as shell-shocked, whispering and wondering what they can do to help

The coaches, especially Mike Brown, who is suddenly on the hot seat after back-to-back winning seasons, are looking at things in game film that they had never seen from the MVP.

I know more about pizza than you. Much more in fact. - Cerebral_DownTime

I am more pissed at LBJs press conference responses after butt-whippins than I the actual butt whippins. Says MB being mad is over-reacting. Everythings OK. I've spoiled Cleveland. Three bad games in 7 years. No fire. No urgency. Ugh.

I can hear it now. LBJ will be pissed that the city turned on him after "all he's done for Cleveland." Cleveland has kissed his butt for 7 years. Cleveland only whispered criticism of LBJ. No one would ever say that "the King has no clothes," for fear of the King going to a different kingdom. He certainly has been more than willing to soak in all the worship and adoration all these years, but will bitch now there is any criticism. You gotta take the good with the bad, big fella.

I can also hear this now. I left Cleveland because we did not win a title. Woj's article talks about LBJ looking in the mirror. Well, LBJ, if this team doesn't win a title, go right back to the mirror... you are the reason.

"The nose of the bulldog has been slanted backwards so that he can breathe without letting go." -- Winston Churchill

aoxo1 wrote:JB, it's one thing to keep saying it's just a bad game when everyone else might just be completely overreacting. Columns from the media go against that, but they don't necessarily have more insight than us.

But how can you ignore Windhorst? Dude is THE source. And here's more from him from espn

Those numbers are not why James' performances have been shocking. Is it his nonchalant attitude that mixes with tentative play when he is trying to make something happen? That is what will be remembered for years and what has thrown so many of his supporters off balance.

It's throwing passes into teammates' feet or over their heads, the kind of lack of focus James never shows at this level. When he turns the ball over, it's usually because of his aggressiveness -- trying to squeeze in a pass or losing the ball in a crowd when fighting into a double- or triple-team.

It's standing quietly on the weak side of offensive plays, waiting to see whether the ball will come to him while his team is down on the scoreboard, as if he were biding his time in the second quarter of a game in mid-February on a long road trip.

It's staring into space during huddles instead of giving instructions to teammates or advice to coaches.

It's going back to biting his nails, a habit he thought he had kicked a year ago. It's no longer wearing his finest suits to games to show off his expensive wardrobe to the cameras, as was his custom.

In the Cavs' locker room, and next door in the team family room, and upstairs in the coaches' and executive offices, people who know James well are trying to figure it out. The truth is James' teammates have never seen him in this type of mood before, so passive and reactionary. Not the outgoing, over-the-top leader they have come to follow no matter how it might look on television.

James' family and friends are just as shell-shocked, whispering and wondering what they can do to help

The coaches, especially Mike Brown, who is suddenly on the hot seat after back-to-back winning seasons, are looking at things in game film that they had never seen from the MVP.

Fat Sweaty Kid is just a journalist ax. They all have heavy biases. Who knows how long this has been going on and he's been waiting? I don't think Windy is god anymore than Grossi, MacManaman was, or Hoynes.

Personally, I think this is so out of the norm we're gonna look back on this and realize that he's hurt, he tried to do other things to help on the court but couldn't go, he tried to be stoic, and he's going to be forever pissed and hurt at being called out. maybe not so much by the national mediots, but by the locals and the fan sentiment.

I truly think this could swing what had previously been a decision to stay here.

One last thought I will get flambayed for, I'm sure.

This is a 25 year old man.

He's invited the pressure for sure, and up to now has lived up to it.

Could he be cracking some right before our eyes and needs support and not disdain?

Shit, I know 25 year olds, probably some who are lighting up Bron, who can't even move out of their folks homes.

Fuck it. I'm as peeved and disappointed as anyone here, beliefe you me. I was born after 64, but long enough to be a developed fan by MOR and lived through all the shit as a madman. But I'll be damned if I'm gonna turn on this kid after all the fan enjoyment he's brought me over a poor performance on the court. I'm just not.

I hope he stays for the rest of his career. It is literally the only realistic chance the Cavs have at a title, and probably staying.

If Bron leaves, and when he is done, without significant structural changes in sports or an economic rebirth, only the Browns will have any credible shot at contending in this market, and I expect the cavs to be gone.

As far as turning a decision, you really may be correct, however it would be something of a mistake for him. I mean, the sentiment that the grass is greener, in THAT dept, is woefully incorrect. God help the kid if he put this shit up in NY or Chicago. As far as the pressure cooker of fans/media, Cleveland is on the low end of the scale there.

Regarding turning on him, hey the guy has never been loyal to anyone but himself, and that's cool, but recognize it as being the case. LBJ didnt do cleveland any favors. He was drafted, and he stayed where the money was, all the while making sure he doesn't lock himself in for too long. Even if he resigns, he'll do another 3 year deal and we'll be talking about the same shit when he is still only 28.

IOW, Cleveland doesn't owe him shit. He's gotten as much as he can ask for in this relationship.

I want him to stay. But they way he goes about his buissness is never gonna make Ctown fans feel warm and fuzzy. He will always hold the town hostage.

I will say that if he were just slightly less talented he might find the line in the sand, but he is that talented, so he wont. You're gonna pay for everything you get with him, IMO. And as premium paying customers, if you follow me, the town is going to expect to get what they pay for. The venom didn't come because we lost, it came because the bare minimum is going down swinging.

No one has to feel bad about being upset for not getting that, no one has to feel sorry for King James. He isn't Couch or DA lying on the turf while browns fans cheer the event of a knee injury.

To whom much is given, much is expected. And honestly, I don't think the town has set the bar all that high.

jb wrote: He's invited the pressure for sure, and up to now has lived up to it. Could he be cracking some right before our eyes and needs support and not disdain?

Dr. Phil, is that you?

I have a feeling there may be a lot of truth in what you wrote. Injury+failure to deliver (not over yet)+ impending FA leads to a crisis in confidence from LeBron? Certainly plausible.

But I would have an easier time being more understanding if his entire persona wasn't built around narrowly obscured refernces to higher powers, Jesus Christ, the second coming, etc. Not bothered by the religious aspects, just find the irony incredibly rich that The Savior of Cleveland is suddenly wilting under the pressure.

Maybe he was manipulated by Nike. Maybe he's gotten shitty advice from his handlers. Maybe he's done too many bong hits with Jay-Z. But the reality is he and his inner circle have brought this pressure on LeBron, Inc. via a carefully crafted image campaign over the past 7 years. It's a bit too late in the game to suddenly ask for a pass on the amount of effort put forward, IMO.

I'm not a hata. I'm rooting for the kid (and he is a kid) as a person, and because I'm a native. But when you build yourself up to great heights, when you raise expectations of millions of people to finally be able to celebrate a championship, you cannot be shocked at the back lash when you are perceived to have laid down, at home, in Game 5.

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team