Tkachuk's surprising but not the end of the world. You'd like to get more of an impact player at 4, after such a terrible year, but he should be a useful part of that mix with Brown, White, Batherson, Chlapik and Formenton. There's some good talent in that group, but it really needs an elite talent, so I'd have preferred Zadina, but Tkachuk will play and play well.

The trade down to get Bernard-Docker is maybe the best trade Dorion's made as a GM - slim pickings, but it's a good move. The draft was wide open at that point. JBD is a good player, could partner well with Chabot as he has good mobility but isn't as dynamic.

The emphasis on "character" still kind of drives me up the wall. I get that our dressing room is broken, but an 18 year old kid isn't the fix to that. It's even more silly than prioritizing positional need over the best player available. I also don't get how an organization that places such an emphasis on character can seemingly always be in such short supply of it, but that's a broader conversation for another day.

Tkachuk seemed to be rated #3 in the draft by many scouts for more reasons than just character. Him, Brown and White could be a good core identity line. But we will surely still need more elite skill in the next few years of working towards a new team in a new arena. Really surprising that there were no player trades in th 1st round of the draft. Most seem to think the best time for big trades is at the draft, yet there were none. Trades another casualty of the cap era i guess. Maybe there will be some today. I guess that's good news for keeping Karlsson unless its bad news that our trade leverage just dropped one more notch.

Y'all know more about prospects than me so I'll admit I have no real opinion here.i don't get the 8 goal thing, but there must be more skill there? I mean... bottom 6 guys aren't first rounders right?

I'm glad they weren't targeting a guy to play soon with the 22nd. Rather than taking European league guys who used to play for Boucher of Crawford, it would make sense to play cheap contract guys.

If they want to sign Karlsson, they can't go full rebuild i would think. Who knows what he wants though. It's hard to believe the hype about what's up. We were supposed to see trades galore yesterday... really there are few. At the moment, looks like we will be seeing a similar team to last year - though maybe the goaltending is a question. Anderson wants to play somewhere else? Me too...

Feels like we are going to have Chlapik, White, Brown, Tkachuk. So that's something. The depth is concerning though...

Hossa wrote:Tkachuk's surprising but not the end of the world. You'd like to get more of an impact player at 4, after such a terrible year, but he should be a useful part of that mix with Brown, White, Batherson, Chlapik and Formenton. There's some good talent in that group, but it really needs an elite talent, so I'd have preferred Zadina, but Tkachuk will play and play well.

The trade down to get Bernard-Docker is maybe the best trade Dorion's made as a GM - slim pickings, but it's a good move. The draft was wide open at that point. JBD is a good player, could partner well with Chabot as he has good mobility but isn't as dynamic.

The emphasis on "character" still kind of drives me up the wall. I get that our dressing room is broken, but an 18 year old kid isn't the fix to that. It's even more silly than prioritizing positional need over the best player available. I also don't get how an organization that places such an emphasis on character can seemingly always be in such short supply of it, but that's a broader conversation for another day.

I decided to look it up, and it is quite sad how few trades were a clearcut win:Condon for a 5thWingels for magic beansa 2nd for Lazar26th and 48th for 22nd

Then there are a couple that I liked but are debatable:an extra 3rd to move up and pick BrownStalberg for a 3rd

And then the godawful ones:Duchene for Turris, Bowers and a 1stPhaneuf for GaborikBurrows for Dahlen (though I didn't mind it at the time)Hoffman for Boedker

Hossa wrote:Tkachuk's surprising but not the end of the world. You'd like to get more of an impact player at 4, after such a terrible year, but he should be a useful part of that mix with Brown, White, Batherson, Chlapik and Formenton. There's some good talent in that group, but it really needs an elite talent, so I'd have preferred Zadina, but Tkachuk will play and play well.

The trade down to get Bernard-Docker is maybe the best trade Dorion's made as a GM - slim pickings, but it's a good move. The draft was wide open at that point. JBD is a good player, could partner well with Chabot as he has good mobility but isn't as dynamic.

The emphasis on "character" still kind of drives me up the wall. I get that our dressing room is broken, but an 18 year old kid isn't the fix to that. It's even more silly than prioritizing positional need over the best player available. I also don't get how an organization that places such an emphasis on character can seemingly always be in such short supply of it, but that's a broader conversation for another day.

I decided to look it up, and it is quite sad how few trades were a clearcut win:Condon for a 5thWingels for magic beansa 2nd for Lazar26th and 48th for 22nd

Then there are a couple that I liked but are debatable:an extra 3rd to move up and pick BrownStalberg for a 3rd

And then the godawful ones:Duchene for Turris, Bowers and a 1stPhaneuf for GaborikBurrows for Dahlen (though I didn't mind it at the time)Hoffman for Boedker

Context changes a few of those, to be fair. I know they should have gotten someone other than burrows, but they did get pretty far on that run which should at least make it somewhat palatable...

Gaborik - at least he isn't Phaneuf

What burns me about the Duchene thing was losing turris. That was a good team, and if they were going to sell the farm and add it might have been enough considering where they were. They say they love character, after refusing to keep turris? Alright then...

Adding Duchene was no doubt an upgrade on paper, but it really reads as a half go for it move... It's a mid play hesitation in trade form. Directionless. And it blew up spectacularly.

I'm as optimistic as anyone and can usually spot signs of a plan... I have no clue what they're trying to do at the moment.

There's an interview on TSN somewhere with Pierre Dorion and Trent Mann. Mann said he isn't worried about Tkachuk's 8 goals. He said he was playing on a line without a centre so he was trying to feed Jordan Greenway (the guy theoretically playing centre). Dorion chimed in to say look at his WJC numbers (where he assumedly had a centre). He had 3 goals and 6 assists in 7 games. Pretty good as an underage U20 player.

Also, on the USDP team the year before he played 61 games and had 25G and 29A. That doesn't seem bad. And he had 12G and 11A in 23 games with the USNTDP team in the USHL that year.

The other thing the Sens guys mentioned that Tkachuk scores goals from in close, where a lot of NHL goals are scored, especially in the playoffs.

The rest of the draft was solid for the Sens. Again, trading back to get JBD and then also pick up Tychonick was a great move. Two very good, mobile blueliners who should play two or three years at North Dakota and be ready to compete for a spot. I like it. I like JBD more as well, but Tychonick has skill and was good, not great at the U18s. There were some reports of off-ice issues with Tychonick, which makes his selection a tad surprising, but no idea what the details are there.

Gruden wouldn't have been my first choice at 95 with some good talent left on the board, but he's a solid player who can play all over the line-up. NTDP fans beat up on him because he would sometimes slide up to the first line instead of Farabee, in an attempt to spread out the offence, and Gruden just is not talented enough to play with elite talents like Hughes and Wahlstrom, but that's also why he was a fourth rounder. I know there was a minority, analytics-informed view that the gap between Gruden and Farabee wasn't that significant, and as somebody who was lukewarm on Farabee, that suggests good value for Gruden here. He has a chance to be a useful third liner someday.

Crookshank is another good pick, more upside than Gruden but also far less likely to be a player. Energetic player with a fair bit of skill, the kind of smaller player who plays on his edges rather than straightaway speed, a profile that has more of a place in the league going forward. Probably would have risen higher had he produced more, as around a point per game as an undersized late birthday in the BCHL is not great, but for the fifth round he's a nice pick.

Mandolese is good value in the 6th. Going into the draft, he was thought to be part of that cluster of top goalies with Rodrigue, Skarek and Lindbom, so to grab him late in the draft is good value. Big goalie profile, more technical than athletic. Goalies are voodoo though, and I like the club's approach to taking fliers on guys like Mandolese, Hollett and Daccord late in the draft.

The last two guys were not on my radar. It was generally considered a very poor year for Minnesota hockey school prospects, but Loheit playing a year in Penticton is smart, as he didn't even get a trial in the USHL this year. Novak is more random, a late 98 from Ontario, who tried out for the Halifax Mooseheads a couple years ago and is off to Bentley College, which is like the Albania of division 1 programs. I could be wrong, but if Novak makes the NHL, he may be the first Bentley product to ever do so. Anyway, the NAHL is an improving league, but our record from secondary leagues below the USHL is pretty weak.

Overall, a pretty good draft. Tkachuk defines the draft and we all have our opinions on that pick, but generally while not the highest upside option, he's got some skill and is a safe bet to be a useful piece. The rest is a pretty good mix, and while some suggest JBD was off the board, the draft was wide open at that point, and he has been solidly in the early second round range most of the season. A lot is being made of the fact we have stopped drafting Europeans, but that isn't news. Our Swedish pipeline dried up years ago when Forsberg left, with Jaros, Englund and Hogberg the only Swedes in the system, and other than Nurmi in the 7th round in 2016, we haven't taken a player out of Europe anywhere other than Sweden since Kaspars Daugavins in 2006. That's concerning, because we should be looking for value in Europe, but that's been our approach for a while.

....There’s a widespread feeling it would serve Tkachuk well to go back for a second year of U.S. college hockey, but the Senators are going to be selling hope next season and, let’s be honest, having him in the lineup, learning how to play at the NHL level, wouldn’t be the worst thing for the franchise.

The Senators are committed to going younger, too. Forwards Alex Formenton, Logan Brown and Drake Batherson will all get good looks in camp and could make the opening night roster.

Tkachuk told reporters he needed to discuss the situation with his father......

Sounds like Ottawa wants him on the team, and they're leaning toward another year of development. When does he have to decide by?

By the sounds of the article, it almost seems like they have a play your way off the team me mentality for anyone even close to being a legitimate NHLer.

I'm assuming that's White, Chlapik, Brown, formenton, Batherson, Tkachuk... anyone else? If the sun sells they're selling hope, I'll take their word for.it because it aligns with the cheapness and personal style of.melnyk as he rides this thing out. With so many questions, it's strange those guys seem like the sure things.

There's maybe 3 legitimate top 6 guys on that projected group. I'm not sure there's a top pairing defenceman..Chabot will be but already? Who knows how to handle Anderson, I can't get over that statistically the worst goalie in the league thinking someone wants him at 37. Yes hes due for his bounceback year but can that really hold up?

They're barely going to be at the cap floor if I'm reading this right (and who knows if Duchene and Stone will want to stay...)

To be good, they need either Karlsson or two top pairing D . Also need 3 top 6 forwards...

And a goalie.

So... with the 2018 draft over, we should be waiting for the payoff of the 2014-17 drafts? Thinking of all this, I don't see why they kept this year's pick. Is next year's expected to be very poor? Hard to see a path, but maybe we need to wait for the pins to fall...

That was a good post above and I’m all for kids playing and all that. They’ll put up more wins than last years team I’d guarantee it.

However I just don’t see guy Boucher coaching kids, unless he really got a talking to from dorion. I just can’t see him back there watching all the mistakes and learning happening out there. Tom pyatt will probably play 40 minutes a night, or wait did dorion get rid of pyatt and all Boucher’s toys? Hmmm.

Keeping the 2018 1st rounder means they can't tank. Plus, it's easier to say they're selling hope than to actually do it. Ryan, Gaborik, Smith, Burrows, Pyatt and McCormick can't be wished away. Which team is going to want any one of them? You can maybe move Ryan with Karlsson, maybe. But again they can't tank, so moving Karlsson isn't an option. At least not until the deadline. And maybe that's where the hope comes in. Tkachuk, being drafted from the NCAA is apparently eligible to play in the AHL, or so I read somewhere. Put him in the A along with Formenton, Batherson, Brown, and one of White or Chlapik, and call them up after the deadline.

No one will want Ryan (3 years), Gaborik (2 years), or Smith (2 years) on account of those extra years, but maybe we get rid of Burrows and Pyatt. That opens up enough room for most of the kids. I doubt they can get rid of anyone over the summer.

Ismellofhockey wrote:Keeping the 2018 1st rounder means they can't tank. Plus, it's easier to say they're selling hope than to actually do it. Ryan, Gaborik, Smith, Burrows, Pyatt and McCormick can't be wished away. Which team is going to want any one of them? You can maybe move Ryan with Karlsson, maybe. But again they can't tank, so moving Karlsson isn't an option. At least not until the deadline. And maybe that's where the hope comes in. Tkachuk, being drafted from the NCAA is apparently eligible to play in the AHL, or so I read somewhere. Put him in the A along with Formenton, Batherson, Brown, and one of White or Chlapik, and call them up after the deadline.

No one will want Ryan (3 years), Gaborik (2 years), or Smith (2 years) on account of those extra years, but maybe we get rid of Burrows and Pyatt. That opens up enough room for most of the kids. I doubt they can get rid of anyone over the summer.

Even if Belleville was a reliable place to develop, and I'm not sure it is considering how bad the team has been, I don't think Tkachuk is ready for the AHL. Few 19 year olds are, and I think that risks stunting his growth. He needs another year to work on his quickness and puck-handling, because he's never really had a dominant offensive year, neither in college nor at the NTDP. His options are London or staying at BU, and I'd be inclined to suggest the latter, because it's a quicker game and he could join the team after the season, as guys like Mittelstad and McAvoy have done.

As for the rest, Formenton isn't eligible for the A, and I don't think Batherson is ready for the NHL, as his best case is probably Mark Stone, who needed almost two seasons in the AHL. White and Chlapik should have spots to lose, and they should put Brown in a position to succeed but I don't really know what that is. He's our most talented, maybe even our most important forward prospect, but I honestly don't know what's best for his development right now. If he's in the NHL, he should be given skilled line mates.

Anyway, it's all full of contradictions. On the one hand, you'd like to see the team go young and give spots to young players who deserve them. On the other hand, Boucher is disinclined to do so by nature, we already have 12 one-way contracts up front, assuming Stone is re-signed and MacArthur is still done, and Eugene isn't going to pay out NHL salaries to AHLers. Unless they buy-out Gaborik or Ryan, or package them with Karlsson to ensure we get embarrassed in another trade, we are stuck with them. Smith could be useful, Burrows I'd waive.

The area of greater concern is the blueline, frankly, if we're trying to compete. It was a dumpster fire last year, and we're potentially subtracting a Hall of Fame defenceman from the group. Ceci is brutal, both to the eye test and the analytics, but we have no choice but to throw ice time at hime. None of Boro, Wideman, Claesson or Harpur should be anywhere near the top four of a contending team. And we aren't really putting Chabot, and to a lesser extent Wolanin and/or Jaros, in a position to succeed if they have to carry that group to mediocrity.

Ismellofhockey wrote:Keeping the 2018 1st rounder means they can't tank. Plus, it's easier to say they're selling hope than to actually do it. Ryan, Gaborik, Smith, Burrows, Pyatt and McCormick can't be wished away. Which team is going to want any one of them? You can maybe move Ryan with Karlsson, maybe. But again they can't tank, so moving Karlsson isn't an option. At least not until the deadline. And maybe that's where the hope comes in. Tkachuk, being drafted from the NCAA is apparently eligible to play in the AHL, or so I read somewhere. Put him in the A along with Formenton, Batherson, Brown, and one of White or Chlapik, and call them up after the deadline.

No one will want Ryan (3 years), Gaborik (2 years), or Smith (2 years) on account of those extra years, but maybe we get rid of Burrows and Pyatt. That opens up enough room for most of the kids. I doubt they can get rid of anyone over the summer.

Even if Belleville was a reliable place to develop, and I'm not sure it is considering how bad the team has been, I don't think Tkachuk is ready for the AHL. Few 19 year olds are, and I think that risks stunting his growth. He needs another year to work on his quickness and puck-handling, because he's never really had a dominant offensive year, neither in college nor at the NTDP. His options are London or staying at BU, and I'd be inclined to suggest the latter, because it's a quicker game and he could join the team after the season, as guys like Mittelstad and McAvoy have done.

As for the rest, Formenton isn't eligible for the A, and I don't think Batherson is ready for the NHL, as his best case is probably Mark Stone, who needed almost two seasons in the AHL. White and Chlapik should have spots to lose, and they should put Brown in a position to succeed but I don't really know what that is. He's our most talented, maybe even our most important forward prospect, but I honestly don't know what's best for his development right now. If he's in the NHL, he should be given skilled line mates.

Anyway, it's all full of contradictions. On the one hand, you'd like to see the team go young and give spots to young players who deserve them. On the other hand, Boucher is disinclined to do so by nature, we already have 12 one-way contracts up front, assuming Stone is re-signed and MacArthur is still done, and Eugene isn't going to pay out NHL salaries to AHLers. Unless they buy-out Gaborik or Ryan, or package them with Karlsson to ensure we get embarrassed in another trade, we are stuck with them. Smith could be useful, Burrows I'd waive.

The area of greater concern is the blueline, frankly, if we're trying to compete. It was a dumpster fire last year, and we're potentially subtracting a Hall of Fame defenceman from the group. Ceci is brutal, both to the eye test and the analytics, but we have no choice but to throw ice time at hime. None of Boro, Wideman, Claesson or Harpur should be anywhere near the top four of a contending team. And we aren't really putting Chabot, and to a lesser extent Wolanin and/or Jaros, in a position to succeed if they have to carry that group to mediocrity.

Pencilling in guys isn't the same as thinking they're ready.. I'm just not sure the team gives a shit.