Today is Memorial Day in the US which means its a day to remember those who have died in war. What group has died in war more than any other group? Men, in particular young men, and many young men died as nothing more than cannon fodder.

The modern equivalent of cannon fodder does not involve drafting men to die in wars. The modern equivalent of cannon fodder is attempting to get young men to follow gynocentric scripts for the benefit of women which involves getting married and/or having men’s income transferred to women via taxes and government spending. The tradcons, the feminists, and other groups are all guilty of trying use young men as cannon fodder. It’s not an exaggeration to say that all of these groups want to use young men as cannon fodder. They want young men to do things that in the best case scenario not in their best interests and in the worst case scenario will involve losing your assets and your children, and being thrown in prison.

In online parlance, “MGTOW” basically refers to any man who’s off-script. There are many scripts out there.

The tradcon / white nationalist script: bust your ass and remain celibate, then marry some supposedly good and worthy Christian “virgin”, move to some rural area, have lots of kids and homeschool them, grow your own food and brag about your lifestyle on the Internet.

The feminist script: bust your ass and have egalitarian relationships with feminist women based on mutual respect, marry an ageing spinster or single mother, have 1 or 2 children and indoctrinate them with feminism, move to the suburbs, pay off your wife’s debts, brag about it all on the Internet and then tearfully claim it’s all your fault when she frivorces you and ruins your life.

The MHRA script: bust your ass and do lots of activism on behalf of MRA organizations. Donate money, show up on protests and conferences. Paint a target on your back for tradcons and feminists to shoot at. Whenever attacked, claim that you support “gender equality” and love women.

The PUA script: bust your ass, work out like crazy, spend your free time learning all sorts of “valuable” skills, go on a diet, approach 10 women everyday, travel the Third World, brag about it all online, then move to the Philippines or Latvia when you’re tired of it all, then self-publish your memoirs in online format and sell it on Amazon.

The people pushing these scripts are all targeting the same demographic, young single betas, so they are in fierce competition. What is making their job even harder is that a growing segment of these betas are refusing to follow any script. This is making more and more people angry and frustrated, as evidenced by increasingly shrill public discourse about MGTOWs and the “Sexodus”. Young men are supposed to be dumb disposable shits, after all, and follow a script. But a growing number of them simply won’t do it.

Each of these groups is trying to draft young men as cannon fodder, and they’re all using the same tactic in trying to draft them, shaming language. However, it is not working. Most of these young men have never heard of MGTOW, yet they have decided to refuse to become cannon fodder for these groups, effectively becoming MGTOW.

Why are young men refusing to become cannon fodder in increasing numbers? First, the attacks on them are become more and more shrill which just steels their resolve to become cannon fodder. Each of the groups that want to use men as cannon fodder are not offering young men any incentives to follow them. There’s a saying that was said in the Soviet Union, “They pretend to pay us. We pretend to work.” Even the Soviets understood somewhat that incentives matter which is more than can be said for any of the groups that Hollenhund listed. Sending young men the equivalent of increasingly insane strong worded letters is not a strategy that will work to convince young men.

Why should a young man become cannon fodder for the indirect or direct benefit of women they are fed up with? Even if a young man is willing to sacrifice himself as cannon fodder, he isn’t going to sacrifice himself for a group he is fed up with and likely hates him. More and more young men are figuring this out and refuse to become cannon fodder.

19 Responses to “Young Men Are Refusing To Become Cannon Fodder”

It’s not like they want to give that impression, obviously. Shaming as a tool has usually been used in shrewd ways. Shamers will insist that they aren’t shaming you because they hate or despise you, they’ll say they are doing it to actually help you, to give you the impetus to become better.

This is, of course, bullshit. The simple truth is that the excess wealth that only men, especially young men, can create is a hotly sought commodity. The same applies to the selfless sacrifice only men are capable of, that only men are expected to give. Every society depends on it for its survival, and every interest group wants to harness it. They all need disciples, coolies and useful idiots.

This is especially true in societies caught in prolonged stagnation, which happens to be the case in the West. Everybody knows that only an insane amount of wealth could prop up the various welfare systems society depends on like Medicare etc. It has to come from somewhere, otherwise bankruptcy is certain. And it sure as hell ain’t going to be women and old people who create it. Only young men can do it, which is why you see more and more shaming directed at them. Their toil is sweat is loudly demanded, because women, children and pensioners need it. It’s all packaged in bullshit about how real masculinity has to make a comeback and so on, but the reality is that they’re simply seen as a resource to be plundered with maximum efficiency.

He uses PUA as a form of white knighting for women, just like the subreddit redpill, any & all faults of women get blamed on game

A woman treats you like shit, you werent alpha enough or not gaming her correctly, dont blame the woman for being a raging a piece of shit

Roosh & the tradcon redpillers on reddit, dont want to hold women accountable for anything, this is essentially why they cant stand MGTOW

Roosh outright refuses to deal with true PUA, note he never mentions dread game, or any advanced game any competent PUA knows by default

He practises numbers game & logistics, basically blue pill pua

If your game consists of running basic numbers & logistics, you’ll never understand women or the dangers all women represent, even as fwbs or multiple ltr’s

Roosh is a below average PUA & gamer, this right there is the problem with Roosh, hence his fucked up bullshit of trying to push tradcon redpill to cover up for his lack of any real PUA skills

Roosh just like the tradcon redpillers on reddit, cant handle standing up to women, or holding women responsible for their own actions, hence he cant stand the largest growing movement of men who refuse to put up with sociopathic assholes called women

Just like Matt Forney shutting down inmala fide, this is nothing more then a tradcon takeover attempt

Just like the christian attempt spearheaded by the likes of Dalrock, Keoni Galt & SSM failed, Rooshv’s tradcon redpill nonsense will fail

This is a good thing, if it’s true. Rightfully, if young men refuse to be cannon fodder, a)there will be more who are alive, unmaimed, untraumatized and around to give companionship to women and b) if ALL the young men refuse to be cannon fodder, exactly how will wars be conducted? The issue will be moot, and blood will be saved on an international scale. I find the thought of fat, slow, out-of-shape, elderly generals and all manner of military brass attempting to conduct wars themselves in the absence of any kids to muster and command HILARIOUS as well as fundamentally just.

Yes young teenage girls aren’t tainted yet, its usually when they get a little older. Maybe we should make marrying tweens legal and when they get older and rude then cull them to keep the pool pure. Lower the age of consent to 13. But in the same regard girls at young age learn to manipulate men with smiles and sweetness, we can’t let that cloud our minds cause we know where that goes.
Teenage boys do talk of problems with about half of teenage girls also but generally they are sweet until about age 18 then they flip the switch.
The main issue is westernized women with american women leading the reigns while trying to input their feminazi values on foreign women unsuccessfully most the time cause all the foreign girls I’ve had all speak of the bad mannered american woman.
The only american women who have a real grip are women who have seen the light and are humbled from problems they have caused starting with eve until now. But usually girls are damaged goods by age 25.
Women past the truelly innocent ages are angry and crazy psychotic that will cling to a double standard equally as a cake.
Women at this stage turn everything on men and blame men for their inadequacy As the first line of defence and clamour after feminism and gather in their feminized gaggles saying its not them that are like this, its the first thing you’ll see them saying they are pure and perfect. This comes from their natural need to be accepted in public acting sweet but are defiled under the exterior. Its a shame since eve tricked Adam that they have whored society to the state its in. The bible predicted this since eve.

I agree about PUA shouldn’t be included in that list, with the exception of the business-cults arising from PUA groups that ask you to pay money to learn how to attract women. Those are just preying on the desperate and weak. Everything you really need to know is out there on the internet for free and some of it isn’t pretty.

And yes, incel MGTOW’s aren’t really MGTOW’s. They are just tagging along until things “get better” (around 30+ when the cock carousel starts flinging off their old high school “friends” and they need a beta provider to pay off their credit card debts, etc). Then it’s off to divorce-rape court for them.

I consider myself an MGTOW in the sense that I can date women, but choose not to right now. I got out of a very bad drama-filled relationship (she cheated and confessed, I dumped her, she went batshit crazy at the idea of a man kicking her to the curb, etc). I’ll eventually start dating again, but will never trust another woman fully again and marriage is definitely not in the picture unless she’s a fucking rich virgin that shits out gold bars and can suck a golf ball through a garden hose (contradictions are deliberate).

I think Hollenhund was referring to things like Roosh’s sudden turn into become a tradcon over the last week. If you haven’t heard about this, watch Roosh’s red pill schism video where he’s now all about “neomasculinity”. ” Neomasculinity” is an attempt to take over game, MGTOW, etc. by Alex Jones and his organization of tradcons/conspiracy theorists.

Yes, Roosh’s latest antics were the main reason I wrote that comment. He and PUAs like him have always been enthusiastic about shitting on MGTOWs and any other men who isn’t like them, and this latest schism in the Manosphere, if we can call it that, is further proof that they have no desire to change their attitude.

One thing PUAs have in common with all the other interest groups pushing their own scripts of male disposability is that they believe in a fantasy. They believe, or at least want to believe, that time is on their side, and history will prove them right.

The PUA fantasy is simple: Game will spread and become mainstream, men will internalize it en masse and re-learn how to be “real men”, they will attract women and turn them into feminine, submissive, fertile beauties who reject feminism. Thus leftism will be destroyed, there will be more great sex taking place, Western civilization will be saved and the white race won’t go extinct.

(As I’ve said, all other groups have their own fantasies in which they become the winners, but I’m pretty sure most of us here are more or less familiar with them.)

Needless to say, this is complete nonsense. Nobody will save this wretch of a civilization, Game won’t become mainstream and there won’t be some glorious renaissance of traditional “gender roles”. In fact, the opposite will happen: a growing segment of men will opt out of the mating market, average female quality will continue to decline, there will be even more anti-male legislation and feminism will continue to spread around the world.

Obviously it’s not pleasant to live in a world where the ideals you hold dear are losing their relevance, a world heading in a direction that horrifies you, a world which contradicts the promises of your ideology. This is why PUAs are becoming more and more desperare, angry and tired. In that they are similar to tradcons, feminists and everyone else complaining that weak, pathetic manboys are robbing us of the chance of a great future.

They are angrily imploring average betas to man up, take charge, just DO SOMETHING to avert a horrific future, because they simply have no idea what else to do. And the more they realize that future won’t be averted, the more they will turn their rage against average betas.

All in all, with all due respect, I do think PUAs in fact belong on that list.

I’m not a regular on PUA sites and forums, so admittedly my exposure to them is limited. Based on what I’ve seen of them, they are getting more and more disheartened and irritated by current cultural and social trends. Which is hardly surprising, because these trends mean that more men are opting out and Game remains a marginal phenomenon, as I’ve said above.

Roosh isn’t selling seminars indeed, but his livelihood is wholly based on his public image, and apparently his problem is that this image is difficult to sell in a society where more and more men are opting out of the game, making Roosh appear to be some Don Quixote figure. He’s showing signs of fatigue and frustration. The vehemence with which he and his disciples attack and shame MGTOWs is kind of amusing, but hardly surprising.

We can argue what constitutes a real MGTOW, but it’s pointless. If you leave, or refuse to enter, the mating market for whatever reason, society will dismiss you as one of them. That’s the thing that matters.

I’ll have to disagree with you about PUAs. They give women attention, validation and sexual satisfaction, so at least they’re seen as useful to a gynocentric society. Plus they are still in the game, which means average women, tradcons and feminists still have some hidden respect for them, and there’s always a hope that they can somehow be betaized. And if you interact with women and seek any type of relations with them, you give them legal power over you, which society sees as good. MGTOWs, on the other hand, have no utility in such a society whatsoever. That’s why they generate so much anger and shaming. They’re seen by every interest group as potential recruits who just won’t man up and join the fight on the right side, whichever side that is.

It’s true that women complain about PUAs all the time, but that’s not relevant. Women have always complained, bitched and moaned about men as whole, in every society, in every era. It’s nothing new.

Plus, outside of those PUAs who sell products, why would PUAs want more guys to learn Game?

Because it affirms their worldview. It gives the impression that social trends are proving them right, that Game works and it’s spreading, that they are getting more followers.

Excuse me for repeating myself, but if you can’t notice this really simple fact, I frankly don’t know what to say.

Roosh isn’t selling any product besides his books. Does he want more guys to learn Game? Hell yeah.

Even worse, there seems to be a segment of MGTOW that is against any and all self-improvement.

And this segment will continue to grow, because there are social trends discouraging men from attempting self-improvement. The YMY law and anti-male legislation in general, prolonged economic stagnation that affects men disproportionately, the decline of average female quality and so on.

You can complain about these trends all you want. You don’t have to try convincing me of anything about MGTOWs or society. I’m not invested in them, I don’t care about them. But social trends aren’t affected by individual complaints, no matter how shrill those are. People respond to incentives. Right now there are few incentives for men to self-improve. That’s a simple fact. No amount of shaming will change that.

Women want ‘alpha fux, beta bux’. Being alpha fux without complying with the funding aspect, is greatly disruptive to the goal of female primacy and entitlement.

No. It means she’s getting AF. She’s free to get BB from someone else anytime she wants. AB is the female ideal. AF/BB is a worse deal, but it’s still more than nothing, which is what they get from MGTOW.

There is nothing that women see more as ‘getting something without paying’ than Game. Nothing is more non-compliant with FI than Game.

The first sentence is true. The second isn’t. We know women want all sorts of things from men as a whole. Sexual attention and validation is one of them. This needs no explanation.

When you’re thirsty, a glass half full of water isn’t an ideal solution to your problem. But it’s still a solution compared to an empty glass.

Even worse, there seems to be a segment of MGTOW that is against any and all self-improvement.

And this segment will continue to grow, because there are social trends discouraging men from attempting self-improvement. The YMY law and anti-male legislation in general, prolonged economic stagnation that affects men disproportionately, the decline of average female quality and so on.

You can complain about these trends all you want. You don’t have to try convincing me of anything about MGTOWs or society. I’m not invested in them, I don’t care about them. But social trends aren’t affected by individual complaints, no matter how shrill those are. People respond to incentives. Right now there are few incentives for men to self-improve. That’s a simple fact. No amount of shaming will change that.

There was no need to „create symmetry”. I included PUAs as a fourth example because they have many things in common with the other three interest groups. They are looking for followers among average, single betas. They are calling on them to put trust in a supposedly good cause and thus lend it legitimacy. They believe there are big social problems caused by men in one way or another, problems that only men can solve, but only if they follow a particular script. They all believe it’s men who must take risks, make an effort, make sacrifices if necessary, for the sake of a better future where both sexes will supposedly thrive. They all believe women lack agency, and cannot be expected to do anything on their own that makes a difference in society. And when they don’t get the results they want, they blame men.

The fat acceptance movement is ideologically aligned with hegemonic feminism, it’s endorsed by mainstream media, many interest groups feel complelled to pander to it, and opposing it in any way will earn you social ostracism and a widespread witch hunt. But yes, except for these minuscule differences, it’s indistinguishable from MGTOW.

I realize I’m talking past you, but it’s the same thing you’re doing, so I guess it’s only fair.

In this context it’s irrelevant if Game works or not. I’m not invested in this issue, so you don’t need to waste your time trying to trick me into revealing myself as some dreaded Game denialist you can then complain about. What is relevant is that those who propagate Game are invested in the narrative that it works, is in fact spreading and is becoming mainstream. It’s the one narrative that can lend them legitimacy.

And yes, if you entered a relationship with a woman because someone encouraged you to do so, it’s very likely you’re following a script.

What’s probably happening is that there is a growing awareness of, and belief in, Game among a group that comprises a smaller and smaller segment of all men. The larger trend is men opting out altogether. Badger has written about this. There’s no wonder we’re seeing more and more public discourse on sperm counts and testosterone levels dropping, the supposed epidemic of male porn addiction, male underperformance in economics and education, herbivore men, faggy men etc.

I wrote about the “tradcon / white nationalist script” for a reason. As far as their narrative on the mating market is concerned, there’s no difference. Traditional conservatism and white nationalism promote male disposability in exactly the same way. There’s no reason to separate the two.