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Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

Originally Posted by Carey

Def. possible, both may have more upside. Te'o might have locked himself into predominate 3-4 teams. Still would take him in the first if he got to our pick. I still think he has more range then Mcclain and he is comfortable in coverage, just not an insane amount of upside to overcome his defensive line getting dominated like Alabama did last night.

Oh, I still want him.

I think he and Ellerbe would be a pretty good combo...assuming we get the Ellerbe we got this year.

If Ellerbe leaves, I think we need to look to maybe double dip at ILB if we stay in a 3-4 or get a fast OLB if we go to a 4-3.

Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

Geno Smith apparently is planning to skip the Senior Bowl.

Personally, I think that is a mistake. I understood why Luck skipped it last year because he was likely to be the top pick, but I think Geno Smith could have really shown his stuff and made a lot of folks on the fence believers.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

Originally Posted by Ravenalytics

I think Te'o gets by on smarts and instincts more than athleticism. I don't think he'll have a great combine.

He doesn't need a great combine. Everyone knows that he'll test well and interview well. He'll probably do well in bench. The events most will be looking at with Te'o are the 3-cone, 40, and vertical jump/long jump.

Right now, I wouldn't be surprised if he runs the 40 in the high 4.6's (similar to Hightower). However, Te'o is also about 2" shorter (at least) and 15-20lbs smaller than Hightower. Ideally, if Te'o runs in the 4.5's then he will really bump his stock up.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

Doesn't really matter about height when your an ILB. Ray Lewis is the greatest ever and is only 6'1, while London Flecther is only 5'10. I still think Te'o is better than both Kuechly and Hightower, I think he'll be gone well before we pick.

Alec Ogletree is not going in the first round, and I would not like him as our first round pick, Kevin Minter is better and may go late in the first round.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Geno Smith apparently is planning to skip the Senior Bowl.

Personally, I think that is a mistake. I understood why Luck skipped it last year because he was likely to be the top pick, but I think Geno Smith could have really shown his stuff and made a lot of folks on the fence believers.

Terrible mistake. Geno could legitimately get overtaken for #1 QB in the class if another QB has an incredible Senior Bowl and Combine. He really needed to just put his nose to the grindstone, play the game, and show improvement.

I think he's scared of falling even more, frankly. He's just going to keep his mouth shut and hope and pray that people fall in love with his numbers instead of watching the tape of his late-season collapse. I'm actually growing to really dislike him as a prospect.

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

He doesn't need a great combine. Everyone knows that he'll test well and interview well. He'll probably do well in bench. The events most will be looking at with Te'o are the 3-cone, 40, and vertical jump/long jump.

Right now, I wouldn't be surprised if he runs the 40 in the high 4.6's (similar to Hightower). However, Te'o is also about 2" shorter (at least) and 15-20lbs smaller than Hightower. Ideally, if Te'o runs in the 4.5's then he will really bump his stock up.

I really doubt Te'o is going to have a good Combine... he's not an athletic freak at all. I believe he's listed at 6'2 255... he might consider dropping 10 or 15 pounds for the Combine in hopes of getting his speed up. Just judging from his tape I don't see the kind of elite lateral movement and looseness that translates to a good 3-cone time. Kuechly for example put up a 6.92 3-cone which is excellent and very indicative of his sideline-to-sideline ability. I do see Te'o having good strength numbers, i.e. bench and vertical jump.

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Doesn't really matter about height when your an ILB. Ray Lewis is the greatest ever and is only 6'1, while London Flecther is only 5'10. I still think Te'o is better than both Kuechly and Hightower, I think he'll be gone well before we pick.

Alec Ogletree is not going in the first round, and I would not like him as our first round pick, Kevin Minter is better and may go late in the first round.

I don't agree that Te'o is a better prospect than Kuechly. Taking a hard look at his tape, you don't see the kind of elite sideline-to-sideline athleticism Kuechly had when he came out. I think Te'o might be out of the conversation for 4-3 Mike at this point, to me he looks more like a 3-4 ILB only or maybe 4-3 SAM. If he drops some weight and really shows improved sideline to sideline ability in the pre draft process he might work his way back.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

I don't agree that Te'o is a better prospect than Kuechly. Taking a hard look at his tape, you don't see the kind of elite sideline-to-sideline athleticism Kuechly had when he came out. I think Te'o might be out of the conversation for 4-3 Mike at this point, to me he looks more like a 3-4 ILB only or maybe 4-3 SAM. If he drops some weight and really shows improved sideline to sideline ability in the pre draft process he might work his way back.

Te'o may have a bad BCS game, but Kuechly played against lesser competition, while Te' was dominating against some of the top teams in America. Its also funny how you bring up "elite" sideline to sideline speed, because while Kuechly had a very average rookie year, Hightower has been lights out whenever he's been on the field, and a lot of people said that Hightower should drop weight, and said there's no way he could excel in a 4-3 scheme as a ILB, guess he proved everyone wrong this year.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

I really doubt Te'o is going to have a good Combine... he's not an athletic freak at all. I believe he's listed at 6'2 255... he might consider dropping 10 or 15 pounds for the Combine in hopes of getting his speed up. Just judging from his tape I don't see the kind of elite lateral movement and looseness that translates to a good 3-cone time. Kuechly for example put up a 6.92 3-cone which is excellent and very indicative of his sideline-to-sideline ability. I do see Te'o having good strength numbers, i.e. bench and vertical jump.

I don't agree that Te'o is a better prospect than Kuechly. Taking a hard look at his tape, you don't see the kind of elite sideline-to-sideline athleticism Kuechly had when he came out. I think Te'o might be out of the conversation for 4-3 Mike at this point, to me he looks more like a 3-4 ILB only or maybe 4-3 SAM. If he drops some weight and really shows improved sideline to sideline ability in the pre draft process he might work his way back.

I totally agree.

I think Kuechly is a significantly better prospect than Teo.

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Te'o may have a bad BCS game, but Kuechly played against lesser competition, while Te' was dominating against some of the top teams in America. Its also funny how you bring up "elite" sideline to sideline speed, because while Kuechly had a very average rookie year, Hightower has been lights out whenever he's been on the field, and a lot of people said that Hightower should drop weight, and said there's no way he could excel in a 4-3 scheme as a ILB, guess he proved everyone wrong this year.

Kuechly may have played against lesser comp than Teo, but he also didn't have multiple first and second day picks playing in front of him taking up all the blockers either. Kuechly showed in college a much better ability to shed blocks and is vastly superior in pass coverage.

And he was far from average this year...lol. He led the NFL in tackles and was the defensive rookie of the month in December. He was so good that the Panthers are going to move Jon Beason, a Pro Bowl level MLB to OLB and keep Kuechly there.

He had an outstanding rookie year and is the running for defensive rookie of the year.

I definitely haven't seen Hightower being "lights out". He missed 2 games granted, but he also had like a third of Kuechly's tackles and didn't force a single turnover (he recovered 2 fumbles).

Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Te'o may have a bad BCS game, but Kuechly played against lesser competition, while Te' was dominating against some of the top teams in America. Its also funny how you bring up "elite" sideline to sideline speed, because while Kuechly had a very average rookie year, Hightower has been lights out whenever he's been on the field, and a lot of people said that Hightower should drop weight, and said there's no way he could excel in a 4-3 scheme as a ILB, guess he proved everyone wrong this year.

LOL, because Kuechly didn't lead the entire freaking NFL in tackles this year to go along with 2 picks, a sack, 3 fumble recoveries, and 8 PD's. He had an insane year despite playing the first 4 games of the year out of position on the weak side. Kuechly is a stud, he had the best rookie year for a non-pass rushing LB I've seen since Brian Cushing in 09. In fact his game is very reminiscent of Brian Cushing, Kuechly might not be QUITE as good an athlete.

Hightower has been pretty good but the Patriots don't play him at ILB, they play him on the strong-side in their 4-3, where he doesn't have to go sideline to sideline. They also use him pretty much only as a pass rusher in their nickel package, Jerod Mayo and Brandon Spikes play more in coverage. I liked Hightower a lot when he came out but I didn't think he could play 4-3 Mike at all and I still don't. I think he could be a good 3-4 ILB just like Te'o but Kuechly is on another level, he can play any LB spot in the 4-3 as well as 3-4 ILB, and be elite (if he keeps playing at his current level or better.)

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

I really doubt Te'o is going to have a good Combine... he's not an athletic freak at all. I believe he's listed at 6'2 255... he might consider dropping 10 or 15 pounds for the Combine in hopes of getting his speed up. Just judging from his tape I don't see the kind of elite lateral movement and looseness that translates to a good 3-cone time. Kuechly for example put up a 6.92 3-cone which is excellent and very indicative of his sideline-to-sideline ability. I do see Te'o having good strength numbers, i.e. bench and vertical jump.

I don't agree that Te'o is a better prospect than Kuechly. Taking a hard look at his tape, you don't see the kind of elite sideline-to-sideline athleticism Kuechly had when he came out. I think Te'o might be out of the conversation for 4-3 Mike at this point, to me he looks more like a 3-4 ILB only or maybe 4-3 SAM. If he drops some weight and really shows improved sideline to sideline ability in the pre draft process he might work his way back.

Asa ND fan, I've watched almost alll of Te'o's games, and I agree with all of this.

He's very smart, good tackler (despite the bowl game) and pretty strong. He is not a huge sideline to sideline guy like Kuechly, but he is much better at taking on blocks of lineman (IMO).

I would not expect a huge combine in terms of 40. But I would expect at least the low to mid 20's in the bench.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn

I totally agree.

I think Kuechly is a significantly better prospect than Teo.

Kuechly may have played against lesser comp than Teo, but he also didn't have multiple first and second day picks playing in front of him taking up all the blockers either. Kuechly showed in college a much better ability to shed blocks and is vastly superior in pass coverage.

And he was far from average this year...lol. He led the NFL in tackles and was the defensive rookie of the month in December. He was so good that the Panthers are going to move Jon Beason, a Pro Bowl level MLB to OLB and keep Kuechly there.

He had an outstanding rookie year and is the running for defensive rookie of the year.

I definitely haven't seen Hightower being "lights out". He missed 2 games granted, but he also had like a third of Kuechly's tackles and didn't force a single turnover (he recovered 2 fumbles).

This. I forgot to mention in my post about DL play and its effect on the evaluation of LB play. Kuechly didn't have squat in front of him at BC and he doesn't have squat in front of him in Carolina either, the Panthers have like the worst starting DTs in the league, yet Kuechly is still a monster.

Meanwhile all 3 of ND's DL are going to be top-150 picks, Nix and Touitt are going to be 1st rounders. Yet Te'o still got owned by Alabama's OL which is pretty much 100% NFL-caliber. I'm not going to let 1 game overshadow my evaluation of Te'o, he is still a great prospect, but it is what it is.

The same is true for Hightower. Alabama's DL was amazing during his time there (except maybe for Cody, LOL) and New England has Vince Wilfork keeping him clean of blockers. Frankly of the 3 prospects (Kuechly, Te'o, Hightower) I'd rank them in that order. I like Hightower but he was even stiffer and slower sideline to sideline than Te'o. Those 2 are closer to each other than to Kuechly, though--that kid is just on a different level. I can easily see him being the NFL's best MLB/ILB in a few years.