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Hello and welcome to the Fizzle show. This is the Fizzle Show. Our chance to help freelancers, creatives and any entrepreneur by shearing the nuts and bolts of building a small business that works. Every Friday, we publish another conversation about the art and science of supporting yourself doing something that you care about.

Your hosts are, we all work here at Fizzle, [xx] Brooks, he’s the head of Gross, Steph Crowder rhymes with chowder and she’s director of members success. Corporate bar are experienced in fearless CEO whose done everything from venture back startups to blogs to bush trap businesses than me. Chase ribs the heart and the [xx] creative director here at Fizzle.

I’m mostly the dancing monkey don’t let anybody tell you otherwise. In this episode, alright this is a good on you are going to like this one, at least I really did, we love side projects here most of our projects have started out as side projects, during some other full time employment that we had but finding the balance between a side project in a day job also can often feel impossible.

Then you try to fill in a little time for yourself outside of the job and side projects and the whole thing topples over. So, if so many businesses are started out as side projects how can we balance both staying employed for as long as necessary and finding enough time to build our side project well, that’s what we get into in the show today, complete with a few examples, several stories and lots of stuff that we’ll get into like, where is my little list here I’ll tell you some of the things we got into, the legal implications you should be thinking about, the perception backlash of teammate and bosses running with that early project adrenaline did you leap with a safety net or just go and see what happens all that kind of staff.

Follow along at home at fizzleshow.com/115. I’ll be back after of this conversation to [xx] Eddie Gat. This is great. It will make for some hilarious moments, I’m sure it will be. We got a good little delay going here guys, but I got to tell you. I am really excited, in my radio voice, Are you ready kids?

Because today is the first day, we’re broadcasting from my new space, yeah! that’s right. I got it all worked out here. Well, two of us at least. Yeah, well me. It’s one hell of an office. It’s a very pleasant home office. It is a very pleasant home, very pleasant home office. We haven’t heard from Jason about a month, he’s been woodworking non stop.

Listen, OK, my friend Laura, I made her a kissing booth for her 30th birthday she wentYeah you just figured, just throw that in “The kissing booth” and so she’s like oh! it’s so great that I have a carpenter as a friend. I’m like listen you know what, number one, I’m not a carpenter, because every carpenter is going like, you got to be kidding me this is not wood working.

This is pine wood in right angle just like in different dimensions. You’ll have to pause some photos I can’t wait, I’m like working on [xx] Is it not the nice little cabbies, you’ve got the soundproofing going on in here. I got a lot of sound stuff, it’s still not where I wanted but as I’m listening in my voice, I this mics are cutting out a ton of that room’s blast, it sounds very good.

So anyways folks, this is the kind of thing I have been fantasizing for so long, to have a pretty like decent size space is to just do all of my crapping this is, this is like a 15 year journey, this is probably like almost a 20 year journey form me, always having equipment, and then it has to like kind of go in, some like being thrown in to make shift place somewhere, that you kind of pull out it eventually, and then the room is not right for it, every time record music, like I don’t have to tare apart my bed and out the mattress against the window, and like, so it’s like you just don’t end up making stuff, and this is the first space I’ve had where it’s like I it is build for making staff.

Do you feel this is work about work though?

Totally but is the work about work I’m totally willing to invest in because it will the whole dream of this and again we’ll see if I’m ready or not. Proclivity out though. Is that you get it all set up and then you don’t and then and I was talking to someone the other day and is like you’re making a video we don’t need really great if I had some footage of me like drawing or painting out a word keep it simple stupid right, and I’m inter spacing that with the message that I’m saying, well now I can just go set up the camera really quick and actually record that and it’s if I don’t use it it took me seven minutes that kind of stuff makes a big difference when you are living hand to mouth and just on what you make, can’t wait to see.

What happened so can I just before we begin, I wanted recap something from last week, wait that’s called a follow up, something from last week, so you said a word and I had to look it up and we were done pod casting by the time I looked up the answer for what it was because it was the kind of word that I had seen a few times but in my mind I never what do we piece together what it meant and for some reason it had a really dirty commentating which word Listicle you never really, I never really thought about that word I just seen it a couple of times and I thought it was derogatory way of saying I don’t know, yes, a thing that dangles off someone’s body somewhere, I knew that lists were involved but I didn’t get that the “icle” part, was from article and now I do.

It’s just an amalgamation of the word list an article, but the horrible thing about hearing that word and understanding it, is now you look around at the world around you and Oh my God, it’s all just one giant listicle. I’m just. It’s buzz feed right? I feel I’m just a bullet point in someone’s larger mystical, about modern life And it’s a bummer it’s a bummer.

You see it everywhere it’s just a game, this is a game that we’re playing folks, I think. There’s a word that Barry said last week that he he pronounced differently than I’ve always read and in my head, you know one of those things, but I can’t remember which word it was. Oh! yeah it was a good one.

Somebody else tell us. I hope so if you remember that ad, put it in the comments of this one which is vision show at /15, right? 115 What’s wow 115.115. Wow!

15.115Wow we just like reset I was like you know how it feels just like it’s the first three months of reporting with you guys. So Berryl I need you help me get back on task here what are we talking about today? So today is continuation of last weeks conversation which was about kind of dealing with the job that you don’t like, dealing with the job maybe you hate, and different strategies for going about it.

We talked about three different ways taking a different approach to the job that you’e already in, finding a new job or maybe creating their own job so today we’re going to talk about that last part the creating your own job because we really didn’t get to did that last week and specifically we’re going to talk I kind of call it work work balance and the title that I put in our little project planning software because this is about having a day job and starting a side business and what you can do to get that of the ground and stay sane while you’re doing both at the same time.

That’s today’s topic Stef have you had experience with doing like a side project while you had a day job?

Yes definitely and I think its really hard to manage it as well you know I think that it can be challenging to understand when you are supposed to work on your side project and and when is the right time to bail down and be in your day job? And for me that was a big challenge when I was a group-on after I realized that I was really wanting to launch my on career couching business, so for me it was a very tough balance and I had to figure out how to make that work.

Yes, so what did you do? So for me I think the main thing that help was getting up early in the morning. I really had to set aside time before my groupon time, very intentional first thing in the morning getting earlier than I normally would in order to execute on a plan that I had devised the night before, so that time was precious and may have only been hour or two in the morning but it helped me avoid the guilt that I would have face if I had tried to do sneaky things like work on my side business while I was on my company’s time because that was something that I was really dedicated to not doing.

So that was the number one thing for me as finding time that was non negotiable side-business time for me to build and feel excited about it. And the interesting thing is that, I actually felt my life better in a lot of ways by doing that because I was doing something for myself first thing in the morning, which we talked a little bit about in the last episode about how to not hate your job so much.

But starting my day with something that was just for me, my passion, helps me feel better about going to go to a day job that I sort of felt that was not going to be for me forever. So that was my number one thing that I learnt is set aside atht time in the morning and just execute. Yeah. What’s so interesting to me about this conversation about side jobs stuff is, I don’t know, certainly none of the projects that I did on my own or ever started except but as a side project well I have a day job.

Yes it’s pretty common that’s what all of us do isn’t it? Yeah. And yet it’s like it’s almost such an impossible thing to try to balance that with a day job with a life, and then if you throw in a kid and a wife or a partner of any kind, is like totally, Good family and this is I think, the most common feedback we get from people about why they haven’t been able to start a business, or why they don’t have to time for fizzle or whatever, the answer is, I just don’t have time.

I don’t have enough time in my day to work on my own project. No, absolutely. So, beryl, how do you how do you want to go about this conversation today?

Yea, I want to start by talking what you should be thinking about if you currently have a job and you you think you want to start a business while keeping your job. So, the first thing I will say is, you need to think about legal ramifications of starting a side project while you’re working in a job Did you see that episode of Silicon Valley yet?

I did. No. It was the second to the last one of this season and it’s more than just whether or not they develop some of the products while he’s working at HulianI got itlegal arbitration about roving because if they touch Huoise[sp?] system even once then Hoise[sp?] owns it. Yes because think about like a Google they have 20% timer whatever you have 3 times to work on side projects you want to spend that out and your home there’s some great area there, a lot of people don’t have this issue because they’re working in a job that’s completely separate from kind of thingsfrom the lawyers and they wanted like to do an artisanal[sp?] peanut butter and sandwich blog.

Yeah. That’s really common?

Those are hot right now. A lot of lawyers with peanut butter and sandwich blogs? Keep going Bare[sp?] no that’s on, so I think the first thing you need to consider if you thinking about starting your businesses, is there something in your contract that says if you start a business while on company time along company property or whatever, that it’s going to be your company’s business instead of your own, so you need to think about that firstand with the hard thing about that is often times you really rarely know, you can’t like even if it’s in the contract it’s hard to find and you don’t really want to bring that up with someone you work for.

Hey so if I did like little p on the side is that cool A lot of times I can get you in the trouble but you could have a lawyer look over any employments agreements you have and it probably won’t cost you more than a few hundred dollars and it might be a really good peace of mind especially if you feel like there’s some sort of overlap between what you’re trying to build and what your company does.

Now, by and large most people do not even think about this at all. And a lot of times it’s not, I mean it’s, I’ve arguably done that when I worked at a place and then started my own, like a media making internet videos place then I went off and did that on my own but and there’s nothing I could do.

It’s just client services. No but you see in most cases it’s not going to be worth it for somebody to pursue that. It let’s you end up with something that’s really valuable on your hands. You can imagine there must be tons of cases of people who worked at Intel, or Hp or somewhere back in the day and came out with some amazing new technology that ended up building a billion Dollar company around or like you know sales force came out of Oracle and all these different things.

So some of it and not that people are building sales force but it’s something to think about at least. Definitely. Well, I think this raise an important question and this this something I face, even if you do higher a lawyer and you find out that this is OK for you to pursue as a side business while you are in your day job what do you guys think about dealing with the perception backlash, so your teammates finding out about it, maybe your boss finding out about it.

Even if it’s legal, what about dealing with what other people within your company think about it and perhaps even thinking that you are not committed within your job. Yeah, that’s what’s so hard, so this is one of my tips I think what is so critical about this is setting up boundaries so that you can still do your job, if you are like me and you have a side project, it consumes meIt can be consumingIt’s consuming men, and I’ve spent so much of my time thinking about it while I was on the clock for someone else.

The challenge of course is there isn’t enough time in the day to do it were these kinds of burns both your candles at both ends and and all the candles are burning instead of just wax everywhere is if you it just burns you in your job even more, when you disengage. Do you know what I mean? And go totally go totally in this thing in it and people can just see it.

You can see it really clearly, but like more important for me it didn’t lead to either of those things winning, because I’m building something on stolen time instead of setting up boundaries and having more realistic expectation so it’s like one easy boundary for me was this only happens during my lunch break, I have one hour from twelve to one.

Like I’m going to go to a coffee shop with a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and get an espresso and that’s my one hour to work on whatever I want that day, because when I go back I’m back to work, and actually it was like a really great break, It was a good like solid break for me from like the regular work stuff.

So but I really never had any team backlash stuff for me, it was normally people good at their office, like Andy that actually became one of my closest friends. He was just like keep up with your cute little blog dude. who’s laughing now?

Steph did you’ve to deal with that?

I totally did have to deal with that and I don’t know the [xx] myself as whether it was more of a limiting belief or personal mindset think but for me as somebody who’s considered a leader within my company at director level I was terrified, I mean I was scared of my boss finding out I had people underneath me, I was pretty nervous about the message that that was going to send and I don’t know if it was more because I thought it would send a wrong message or because I thought people would look at what I’m building and say to themselves, oh wow why does she think she can do that?

So it might be a combination of things but I have to imagine probably a lot of people out there in the situation who are listening, who are really feeling like leading this double life and I absolutely struggle with that and I don’t necessary know that I ever sold it exactly. I even had people within my company whoever speaks poke friends with and I wanted to post blog update but I felt I need to block them from the update and then it gets to the out of control.

Yeah that’s right. that’s actually that’s it let me think that’s how social media just gets so messy, where are we going to ask of it?

Well, where Ed Ford did get out stuff? I think it did a little bit, I started to have a little core of people that I trusted and what I found was that, the people who did find out, thought it was really cool, and if anything they sort of wasted what they needed to do with themselves. So I do think a lot of that, if you are feeling that way and you are listening to that, a lot of that might be in your own head in terms of a bit of imposter syndrome and feeling like you don’t have enough to say and people at your company might look at it and laugh, and my experience is that’s just not the case.

My boss never found out about it, so I can’t speak to that as much but in terms of peers and things like that I found that in general a lot of companies think it’s cool when people are pursuing awesome things outside of the job because just as you said, in a lot of cases, it makes you a better, more well rounded employee when you come to work passionate and fired up.

Yeah, just kind of depends I think on if you’re able to step right the to things. And so That’s where I think the line starts getting grey is yeah, maybe they look at it as a project that you’re passionate about. Something that makes you more well rounded employee and more passionate about that work at home or there may come a time when your boss and the people around you start to say well, when is she going to tell me she is quitting?

Or when is he going to tell me he is quitting? And I think that’s where it starts to become our problem and so a real key to all of these I think is setting good boundaries for yourself between when is your work work time and when is your side business time. So for those of you that hve done it, how did you manage the difference between showing up to work and doing your job there versus spending time on your company?

Well before you say that, I will do when I get right into that, I have to say I almost wanted to have a funeral for good managers. It’s like good where did all good managers go who are interested in developing people? Because the truth is, when you work here for us, one of the things that’s so exciting to me is developing people, is to watch someone like [xx] or Steph, learn new skills and become more figure out more of who they are, like to me that is just, back in the old day at church that was just deep deep down in my guts now, there’s not I know it would be totally futile to try to keep someone around, who should’t be here or to try to keep someone in a position or focus on these tasks, that it isn’t them and it’s not in them, and this isn’t a necessary, or when they are outgrowing it or whatever, when they are outgrowing it.

That is how we should be managing each other but like most of the time, I feel like, can you imagine, luckily I got this experience of working with a guy who actually even though he wasn’t fundamentally focused on developing people, he had a job to do, he had investors and he had a board of directors that he had to sell on what was going on in the company.

Right. We had three million in investment or whatever it was and we had to make good on that, right? But at the same time, he was old enough and experienced enough to be able to watch me and to realize that I’m going to fly whenever I feel like flying and there’s no way that he can stop me in that.

From the realities on average people under millennials skip jobs for like three years or something now instead of what people used to, and so you know that you and your manager both are going to end up in different places at some point, the way I look at this as a person who is hiring is that the ideal situation as a manager is that you find people whose future career is an extension of a career that they are doing right now, so that their success in this particular role will help them in the future.

If you hire people who are going to go off and do something completely different from what they are doing right now then you run into that situation where they might be working on something on company time, because what’s going to happen is they feel like it doesn’t matter how I do in that role because my new life is different I’m going off to do something else and so their reputation isn’t really at stake, so I think you want some sought of overlap there, I know when I I was in my first job when I decided to start doing something on the side.

I had a really hard time not doing it at work. I remember I would work on it at night and this was when I was travelling, so I was in hotel room, my wife wasn’t there so I had nothing better to do than go home to the hotel and work for three or four hours before I went to bed, but then I’d wake up in the morning and maybe I was in the middle of some problem and I just couldn’t wait to get back to it and I ran out sneaking away for an hour or something in the morning to work on it.

In that case I didn’t tell anyone except for one guy that I worked with because we were more of friends than co-workers and I’m glad that I didn’t tell my boss or anything because that business idea didn’t end up working out and I needed a job. And that’s something you have to think about like there’s a good chance you’re going to have to salvage the career that you’ve been working on.

Totally and that’s not a small point, not that you’re going to have to salvage it but like give yourself this as a rule, where you’re going to end on good terms. Just never end on bad terms, never end on bad terms, and there is going to be situations maybe where you can’t avoid it, but you do everything you can to end on good terms, you know why?

Because you have no idea where your life is going to touch this people again, and it’s not just that company, it’s these people. They show up again and again in your life potentially, even if they don’t it’s just the rule and you make good by that because that’s who you are and that’s how you walk through the world.

Did you, you guys saw the most the most recent season of Mad Man?

I haven’t seen the finale yet. Season 7 [xx] we haven’t seen the finale yet. I’m not going to let youBecause the last season is incredible, the whole season. Yes it’s amazing, I’m not going to let too much fly here but there’s this character Loo who kind of took over for Dan Drapper for a while and I worked with this kind of a guy before, throughout the course of season 7, he’s working on his side project, which was this comic called Scout’s Honor and everybody mocked him and eventually it end up working out for him and he is just waiting.

He’s like, got all this pent up energy and he just can’t wait for that phone call when gets to tell Don Draper to shove it and I that kind of guy before, where their whole goes to burning bridges, because they’re still pissed about their job or whatever, and I don’t think that ever works out for anybody unless you’re like time and age that, maybe you don’t care.

But it’s just like, unless you’re the kind of person that just like you’re totally filled by spite, and then this can bring people back from the dead. But, the point is that you don’t have to be like that, and you can choose to be different, and so I kind of wanted to just say that, but [xx] we were getting into something, I forgot now.

So point being or the point we are headed towards is, how do you establish boundaries for yourself between day job and showing up and being valuable there, and your side business and having enough energy to put time and effort into that? So, I don’t know if you all have managed that or how you manage that.

I’d love to hear how. So let me share an anecdote from somebody that I mentioned a few weeks ago, his name is Joseph Michael and he runs a site called learn scrivvle or fast, and I just re-interviewed him last week because we are going to do a blog article and this particular client take kind like tell his story because it’s pretty interesting.

He was working for a casino, the headquarters of a casino and I think he had the kind of job where you really don’t have a choice and I think a lot of people are in these kinds of jobs where it sounds as if I can speak away and work for an hour right you know I have to be on while I met my job doing stuff, and if that’s the case what he ended up doing was he looked at his schedule and just felt like there is no time in a day and I think everybody feels this, it’s like I just don’t have time.

There was a famous Gary van or truck video from like 2008 he was giving a Keynote talk. Web 2.0?

And yeah, he just gets fired up and in the middle of it. It’s still one of the best things. It’s so motive, he get’s fired up and in the middle of it he starts talking about how you do have time and as a [xx] will this added to the same. He said watching the [xx] a lot, like this is when [xx] is really popular is like you say you don’t have time but I know you watch Game of Thrones, everybody does.

Stop watching Game of Thrones and for Joseph what he did was he had a lunch hour, and it was like everybody would go out and have fun and go to a restaurant or whatever, he gave that up he stopped going out with his colleagues so that he could go, he said he literally would take his laptop, get in his car drive his car to the other end of the parking lot where nobody would bother him, and he would be in there banging away, sometimes he would do a webinar from his laptop from like from the corner of the parking lot.

Just for the same wi-fi or something?

Yes, just with wi-fi from a company or building. So notice that difference by the way. I do take issue with this idea of like, you can do this just hustle harder. You’re just not hustling hard enough, right? And [xx] kind of like you just go and do it. Because I’m not like that. I’m artsy-fatsy, I need my beauty sleep, you do two [xx] we’ve established that a couple episodes ago.

That matters a great deal to me, that my work comes from a place of play instead of a place of obligation or a place of like, I don’t know just over result driven stuff. Because that’s what burns me out, right?

But I don’t think that’s true because if it’s something new and fresh and you’re trying to get it off the ground, it’s not obligation. But here is the other thing, here’s the other thing which that, when you finish that idea is there’s a lot of people out there who are going like I wish I had made more progress on my thing, and they watched Gary’s [xx] talk, which again will be in the show notes, this will show.

Code /115 and they’ll be like, oh, I just didn’t do enough and it’s true, you didn’t do enough but the solution is not to like Pat, Flynn and Gary [xx]. Pat says he likes lives on like four and a half hours of sleep, like last time I talked to him. Last time I talked to him about that was like a year and a half ago.

But no, sleep is like the only way that am going to stay married to wife because number one it cuddles, number two just like am not terrible person when I got some sleep you know what I mean?

Number three cuddles. Number three a little bit more cuddles the pillow talk is the only reason why we were able to survive what we survived but the point being that it’s not is all about hustle, this is other thing where its like is actually harder or its working smarter, that’s getting back to this point about boundaries [xx], I think this is probably the place where the most sort of life hunky things could be incredibly helpful for people, right?

So, one of them we’ve heard, we’ve said twice now is find a time in your day like your lunch break in built in at the time potentially maybe you only have 45 minutes, maybe you only have an hour and a half, I don’t know. But it’s special, its sacred and you are giving up at things, maybe firs of all there is a lunch break as a specific thing but if I abstract that up, one level from that and its just like, give one thing up and replace it with working on your thing, that kind of structure can be completely like life shuttering in terms of how much you are able to get done just because you have a place for it, and I want to mention or talk about that thing that you got when you like did something the night before and you just couldn’t help yourself in the morning like you had to get anywhere, that’s what this whole bookshop project has been like for me, right?

I am itching to get more done on it, right, but that can be unsustainable not only is that it is unsustainable, But of course it is not meant to be sustainable. But there is something else besides that t what it comes from is the lack of, and sometimes this is just an avoidable you can’t plan everything.

But there is another way that is like, what is like what I am learning from the productivity channeling from our chuck in process, that’s the staff that we’ve talked about before, every Monday we check in here’s what I’m going to do this week every week every Friday, check out here is what I did this week from those sorts of things, when you start to see the delta, the difference between what you thought you were going to do and what you actually did, when you were keeping track of it, you start saying I’m going to do more realistic things.

You start, I thought, that’s the fifth week in a row I said I was going to do five things and I’ve only done two in that week, right?

Right. So when you start going a night before, you know when you bite off just a tiny little more than you could chew and it’s that addict sort of thing. I feel there’s, if you look at the old story of the difference between battling everybody out and being able to trying to win an iPad if you lose, you lose [xx] just the war of nutrition and people who matched 10 miles a day got there [xx] exactly, so, if there is some sort of mix between those two for me keep going you will.

Well I think there is a face during any like new project, its like a new PCP and you can get more done then in normal you would be, there is this whole other gear that you didn’t know you have, and I think you have to learn with that sometime. You totally do you like?

And if you don’t feel that, if you like no I don’t have enough time to get my things done, then maybe its something that isn’t really right for you, if you have to force yourself in the very beginning stages of a project find an hour here or there to work on it, maybe it’s time to move on to something else.

That’s a really big point, by the way, I feel like, because how many times in my life did I feel like I really wanted a side project and so because I like wanted to be like Pat [xx] I wanted to be Kobe Bowl I wanted this thing or the other right? And so I was in that mode and and the truth is I was just running with whatever Idea I had at the time.

You know what it mean and it wasn’t a good idea and it was certainly didn’t workout. I can’t put under so much pressure, just to do all the stuff, but then you’re just sitting around waiting for the better idea, and you can’t do that, you have to be working on stuff because that as when the next idea is going to come.

So I don’t know, guys what are you hearing over there?

I mean I think one of the things I’ve found is Jess, you’ve totally said this before and it resonated with me, at a certain point when you work on your passion for long enough, it’s going to start to feel like work, right? Like so I think that that’s partially inevitable. Everything becomes a job. Yeah, totally so you have to anticipate that to some degree, but the other thing I would say is that one thing that really helps me is I found I would loose esteem if I wouldn’t say on top of my plan or even ahead of my plan, so the enemy to my side business was if I was late on getting a blog post up or I hadn’t accomplished what I was supposed to that week and I felt like I was scrambling it felt like I was scrambling and felt forced and not authentic, so when you are working with a really limited time whether it is on your lunch break, sitting in your car, it’s in the morning, it’s five o’clock in the morning or it’s late at night, I think you have to have intention and you have to stay on top of that plan if not ahead of that, so you feel like you have that acceleration from, you know making progress within your business, because if you have a very narrow time frame, and you’re just constantly trying to fight to get back on track, it’s not going to feel good.

And no one is going to enjoy that, I don’t think. Yeah, Barrett, do you have any tips on this boundaries stuff you were talking about? Well, I guess just from a tactical perspective you have before work, during lunch and after work and then the weekends that you can do this thing, and depending on your job, it’s going to change how much time you realistically have to commit towards it.

So probably you talked about in a past episode maybe last episode about you kind of going against the grain at work and maybe not working as many hours as everyone else but doing just as high value and high quality of work. So, that would be one option if you think that you have to work too many hours at work, would be go against the grain, do just as high quality work as everyone else but don’t work as much and then use those extra hours to put in to your business.

But if you work a typical job where you are working 40 to 50 hours a week, then you can find hours in the morning, you can take your lunch break or you can stay up late and get the work done. you bring up important issues about family life though, so, when you throw a family into the mix kind of everything goes out of the window.

If you are in charge of making dinner or putting the kids to bed or whatever your family responsibilities are, it makes it pretty tough in the evening so just pour work and hours into your business, and then still get sleep too so I guess just know that you’ve got to choose, morning, lunch, evening, or weekends or some combination of those but regardless, you need to find 5, 10 and 20 hours a week if you can find it, to put towards your business if you want to make any kind of meaningful progress and another option which is something I did for my second big start up attempt was that after I had some confidence that things were going in a decent direction after my business partner I had committed with from the company.

We were working on the project, I went to my boss this time around and said hey, I’ve got this I project and it’s looking promising I want to go part time and so I was in a consulting role and we made it work it din’t happen right away but after a month or so it cut back to about half time, or 20-30 hours a week, something like that, which just bought a couple of days a week, that I could pour into the same.

Apparently And you took $100 less a week or something like that? RightYeah, wherever it was and partly I did that because my business partner was full time and that’s a weird situation you can get into if you’re part time and your business partner is full time on the project then it can lead to some weird dynamics and you just feel pressure [xx] I’m doing more than you is the number one [xx] And I also felt like, and this is maybe something that that I had planned to talk about later, there’s this point which, you’re going to have to take a leave.

You don’t necessarily have to. If you’ve listened to Steve Chew from mywifegotajob.com.if you’ve heard his story, he actually still works a day job to this day. He’s in semi-conductor manufacturing in Silicon Valley, and he has, his wife has a successful business, and he has a successful side project, both of which earn more than his day job does, and yet he still works his day job just because he loves it and because he’s figured out a way to, he puts in a few hours after work, on his side project, and it’s enough to earn a ton of money, and have fun and whatever.

So, you don’t necessarily have to. But for me, I just felt I was going to have to take the leap at some point, and so, I kind of eased in into it. I went half time for a while, without fully committing, my boss was well let’s check in every few weeks and see how you are doing, you’re supportive of it and eventually a few months later I went full time on the side project.

I love that I’ve got a couple ideas on, just a couple more on this boundary stuff. Number one is, as you mentioned the family stuff, if you have not yet, please if you are in some sort of long term relationship with anybody, please go listen to episode 55 if you haven’t yet and even if you have go listen to it again, there’s a handful of ideas in there that can be so incredibly helpful when you’re processing and trying to do a business on the side.

Mainly, how do I get my partner on the same page as me about this business? Because I got to be honest you guys, I never did that, and I never got she always believed in me, she always routed for me but I never brought her in, I still don’t do a great job of that, I don’t like to talk about this stuff, my brain shuts down after five but getting her on the same page has meant so much and it alleviates so much of that, just that invisible tension that happens and so when you’re working on a side job, get your partner on the same page as you, right?

Or your buddy or whatever like another thing, you mentioned weekends. You can have one weekend a year, sorry, one weekend a month maybe or maybe every six weeks or you just do a sprint. You find an [xx] for two nights in some somewhere or something like that and you just sprint, no internet, you’re just writing or whatever or you’re just internet or you’re making the website or who knows what?

Right? But you sprint, you just have a weekend, those compact times when you’re spending more than an hour, more than three hours, like you’re going for full days maybe even more than four days on a thing, because it’s so time boxed? That can be so helpful to get so much crap done in such a little amount of time.

For me when I was building my stuff I always felt just like this way to like even right now with fizzle we’ve got a to do list and a plan that’s so much longer than we’ve the resources for and its a really stressful place to live all the time you got to be like fall on, super zen, about this stuff, like breathe in, breathe out, but I want to talk really quick about this planning thing I mentioned before.

I feel like this work smarter not harder thing is actually is maybe one of the biggest pieces of this. When you have a plan of what you’re doing, and you realize that this side project is a hunch, it’s a hypothesis, it’s a test, OK? What would it take? How would I know if this is worth spending another amount of time on it, right?

So here is a question, how long are you going to work on a side project? Most of you in the audience, if you’re anything like me would say, I don’t know, I didn’t think about that, I’m just working until it’s not working anymore, right? How will you know if it’s not working? How will you know if it’s working?

Answering those two questions, really only answering one question. How would you know if this is worth spending a lot more time on? Right? So maybe if that’s like, oh, I’ve got 50 people on the email list, or maybe it’s like I’ve made, when I’ve had my first $1000 month, or something like that. Or $100 month or I made my first $100 from this thing.

There’s a lot of metraxy[sp?] that you can set that’s totally up to you but deciding on what that is and saying how much time do I think I need to do that? So maybe it’s 2 months, maybe it’s 6 months, maybe it’s 12, I don’t know. But if you have a good plan like that, so that you can then zoom back out and go like, alright, manage myself I’m the CEO now.

How I’m doing at this job? Is this my position? I want to develop myself, is this what I should be doing? Like all of that sort of stuff. Man if we can just zoom out and realize that like, this is one idea of hundreds that you’ll have through out you life, and the whole point is simply to not give up, because one of them will probably end up working out, if you the DNA and stuff like that.

And there’s no way to tell until it’s happened but that idea of like really creating a simple strategic plan that then you can fulfil is great, I think part of that is having that timeline, how many months are you going to work on this? Okay, I’m going to work on this for 6 months. In 6 months I will have accomplished x, y and z and my hypothesis, is that I would have achieved these results.

If you can just put that on a freaking post it note in your bathroom window you know what I mean, that you see every morning to remind yourself this is what you’re heading towards and then maybe another one for why you are doing it, just like a picture of you on a beach or something, whatever you’re into but, because the thing that’s going to kill your work, is going to be you giving up.

And you know why you give up? It’s because you didn’t focus on the important work. Instead, you kind of flubbed about. I’m like yes, not really cut out to be an entrepreneur, because we all do that. How many hours were you just on Facebook? I don’t know, felt like 20 minutes, that was three hours you were just on Facebook, that never happened to me more than when I was trying to build my own side project.

The distraction never happened more in my life. Yes, you made some good points in there and so I’d recommend a couple things, a couple of tools here. The first one is rescue time, maybe we mentioned that before but rescue time catalogs the time you’re spending on your computer every week and it can send you a summary that says, two hours on Facebook.

10 hours in email, and you can see ho your time is actually broken down across your applications and websites. That is incredibly informative and it will show you real quick doing actual work or play work. And then the second thing is, [xx] & ship it journal is really good for what you were talking about a minute ago [xx] with planning projects and putting constraints on them.

So that you know, is this done, when is it done, how do I know whether to move on or keep going? All of those boundaries are great to set especially if this is a side project and it’s not your full time job. I just want to present the other option which is hey, just explore this [xx] just allow your self to just fiddle around and fool around with it.

Cause I certainly had seasons in my life where actually, that’s what I needed to be doing, and putting myself under all of these structures and trying to become someone that I wasn’t and all this other stuff wasn’t helpful in anyway, shape or form. If I would just have been free and easy with it, it would have been so much more helpful.

So the other options I realized that that’s an option for you and that’s why it’s like, I’m not quitting my jobless here, or in the next two or three years this might take me five years to figure out and that’s OK. Creating that room for that left hand path is OK. Don’t act like someone who has a hard deadline to work towards if you’re just going to explore.

Don’t put all this pressure on yourself, don’t act like you need to start making money, don’t act like it’s imperative you quit your job tomorrow if your going to explore just use the time to explore and enjoy it. If you want to quit your job and you want to get out of there ASAP then do the the project planning thing and have some boundary.

The other thing I want to say related to earlier you cant start a side project and then just sucking your job. That doesn’t work, because like Quabec said earlier, many of your projects are going to fail and it’s highly likely that you are going to have a failed project before you have a successful one and so if you’re going to do this thing on the side don’t just take that as, oh I’m starting my thing therefore I can suck at my job because if I get fired is not a big deal that could be a very bad situation and the way to protect yourself from this is to keep showing up and keep being valuable and not just put off your real work because you are excited about the other thing.

I think that’s being on because again to me the real danger with that is not even getting fired or any of that that is a real danger. There’s this other thing going on which is like your sacred dignity your ability to look at yourself in the mirror and feel good about yourself but beyond that if this sustainability of your work and if your constantly stealing time to do stuff it just builds up its this blackness that the work your stealing time to go do gets worse and then the work that you’re getting paid do in your day job gets worse so nobody ends up winning.

TotallyLet’s talk about you started your company it’s on the side, you’re still doing good work and it’s kind of starting to tick off a little, you’re seeing some traction[sp?] so you’re not just exploring at this point you put some boundaries around it and you’re starting to see some momentum maybe you’ve built a little built of an audience maybe you have a product idea, where do you go after you start to kind of testing the waters and then you’re starting to move further in?

I want to talk to Seth do you have any ideas on that?

So in terms of where to go after you’ve started to see some success like what the next step is?

What would you do?

So you’ve decided you’re going to start a business on the side, you’ve done it and now you’re kind of starting to see some progress. This point that I’m about to make kind of goes back to something that Jess was saying, and I think it always answers the question two things that were big for me and this also has to do with talking to your partner I life about what you’re doing you know one thing that John and I did we sat down and I made him very aware that this was the direction I wanted my life to go in and we did decide what that end point was going to look like.

In Fizzle we call it freedom number I had sort of freezed with him or like a spaghetti number if you will meaning what was like the bear minimum that I was going to have to bring in [xx] profitableExactly exactly in order for us to know that this was the real deal and we came up with that number that was the first thing.

The second thing is this kind of freaks me out to this day I remember one night and my Chicago winner here I was January and I was sitting in my car I just gotten back from work I think I was on the phone with my mum, and I just picked up this random in April and I said to myself, I don’t know how it’s going to come together but I know that by that point I am going to be at a crossroads where I’m going to be able to quit.

And I’m going to put my head down, and I’m going to figure out how I can do that work that I’m actually passionate about by that day. I actually marked it in my Google calendar and weirdly I actually ended up quitting my job that day to work for Fizzle which is really weird but I don’t think it’s a coincidence.

I was squarely focused on that being the time when I was going to get to go and jump off the cliff and work on the things that I’m really passionate about. So I think knowing what you’re working towards and having that hard end date I think Covet may have mentioned this in our last episode but knowing that there’s an end day helped me be able to resolve give my full heart and soul to my day job because I knew it wasn’t going to be forever, so I would really say try to come up with something realistic where you think that you might be able to push yourself and just work really hard towards being able to make that transition.

You Understand so much power even when you put your eyes from the intention out into the universe like that, right because what happens is like as my friend We are just starters right? We come from the south, we are the same thing as the southerns. Okay guru, and so, what happens is, when you put your intentions out there this is I don’t know if you guys are familiar with this secret but very good.

They have a DVD now. What’s the secret?

I can tell you [xx] understand it’s eager to take but understand but it’s very powerful right? And if you get involved now, you can get involved in my network Mark [xx]. You noticed how biased just all business are nowadays [xx] on to the next check point, he’s got his clip board. We had our 10 minutes of home office discussion at the beginning.

Oh man. Just taking [xx] all over chassis[sp?] heads. And listen you can joke about it for sure, but. That’s the thing it’s a big deal it’s intentionalBecause if you don’t set an intention you’re going to just keep spinning your wheel into eternity and I will say I worked a lot harder knowing that I had this date that I wanted to have my dream life and that might sound cheesy or weird but it really did work for me and I think the proof’s in the pudding power of the Chris Johnson 10, 10, 10 thing where it just simply saying the ten people the 10 project the 10 thing that I want to do.

It’s simply realizing it in yourself to go like oh I’d love to do that and writing that down on something. For me was when my no longer wife’s step-father, they’ve since been divorced, the step father is no longer [xx] [xx] too When I was 17 and he started dragging me to [xx] meetings they told me to go home and make a little mood board or something of the things that I want wanted in my life [xx] So there was like a tropical vacation up there was a brand new shiny Honda Civic [xx] Hunchback or what are we talking [xx] Regular and that led to a lot of places.

Yes how could it not when you got a picture of a civics sedan looking at you I tell you what you’re going to start shaping up or shipping out so something that comes to mind when we talk about like what do you do next, I think this is really dependent on how you’re going to function based on your financial resources and so for some people, leaping without a safety net can be motivational.

They can feel like, Oh! men I really got to get something done here and that can be enough to power them through and to get some stuff done. Other people are going to be just completely terrified and paralysed by the fear of spending savings without any income coming in or without enough income to cover that you need to and so I think you really need to have a conversation with yourself and your family or your spouse or whatever about that situation and there’s a good chance that you aren’t going to be able to know how you’re going to react and until you’re in that situation, but be prepared that it may do things to your emotional state and that you may need to have a fallback position or something if you let’s say quit your job, you think I might have all this time and build my business really fast and then you find out well, time isn’t really the limiting factor in a lot of cases, it’s having a good idea and it’s being able to focus on what you need to get done, a lot of times people quite their jobs and then they find themselves playing Xbox all day because they just feel like it’s just really hard to focus and direct yourself to get things done and then you’re spending your savings just a downward spiral so really think about that and I think the answer is different for everybody.

You hear stories of some people who leave before they have any income and then you hear other people like Steve Chew who hasn’t left yet even though you’ve had a business for five years and I don’t know how you’re going to figure that out but such such a big point because a lot of us read crap on the internet and then we go like, oh!

right so this is how it’s supposed to be done. When really that’s just that’s like the scariest point of view this is [xx] point of view, this is [xx] point of view and that is how they did it, and they have a lot of experienceThat’s how we’re wiredBut you have to still be able to with yourself, right?

I agree with that. But what are some of the questions that you need to ask yourself in that conversation because it’s easier to say that you going to do it your way and somebody’s way might my way and that’s why it was successful, otherwise you’re going to be somebody else, but the truth is realizing that, what just said, have a conversation with yourself, right?

I agree with that but what are some of the questions that you need to ask yourself in that conversation because it’s easier to say you going to it your way, and somebody’s way might not be your way and different ways work for different people. What are some of the questions that people can ask themselves, as they are thinking about I want to in this job, or I think I might make a job someday from this job to being a full time entrepreneur.

What are the questions they need to ask themselves about the criteria they should set for that decision? So specifically from a financial stand point, there’s something known as a runway and that’s basically how much money do you have in savings and and given your monthly spent, how long does that give you before you run out of cash?

It’s the same for your business, it’s also same for your personal finances, and so lets say you have $100, 000 in the bank and you’re spending $5000 a month then you have 20 months. and that’s a thing that you are not going to earn anything, but you can also project that six months from now I’m going to start to earn this and then you can model it out spread it to get it out, however, despite doing that you might still find yourself in a state of panic and with all this anxiety and paranoia you might get three months into it and maybe you miss your first months of projection, I’m supposed to be earning $1000 by now and I’m not at all so what did that do to my runaway?

And that can really start messing with your head. So I think you can do all you want to plan for it and you should, but it still doesn’t mean that you’re going to be prepared when those emotional factors start coming into play. Yeah. Alright, so the first thing is understanding your financial runway and so a combination of how much money do you have in the bank?

What are your monthly expenses? And how much money is your business hardly making to off set this expenses?

Yeah, you know what is so exciting about all of this right? I remember, do you remember back in the day like having this conversation with your partner, or spouse or yourself and just going like; so how much do we really need? What do we need? And like, what are our like the budget stuff, like what are our expenses?

What’s the car payment? What’s the house? What’s the [xx]? How about taxes? and you’re getting to that, I love that spaghetti, sort of, spaghetti income level. The Roman profitable level of just, like this is the lowest we need to survive. We can drink box wine if we have to, right Steph?

It opens your eyes, it really does. Well, it does something to your eyes, it’s like, is that pink eye? No it’s franzia, butFranzia, so Franzia darling, franzia I was going to say Ryan, you have to stay positive. I think my grandma used to always say she was going shopping at [xx]. There are a lot of, so it’s a really good conversation to have with yourself and I suggest this even if you’re not thinking about leaving your job, just to look at your expenses and say, if I really had to how low could I get my expenses?

Think about it, like if you haven’t seen the documentary on happiness, it on Netflix, it’s just called Happy that’s great, one of the things that we know in our happiness research, is like income doesn’t actually have a great deal to do with it. It’s just up to a certain point. Until, yeah and it’s way lower than you might imagine, In someone’s study said 75 in what another one said 50 it’s, hard to tell because all over the world there is all this different income levels and arguably the happiest place on earth is Nagasaki or something like that, right?

Like one of those little Islands out there that like there is no men there, because they all died. Right? So now they’re like young kids and stuff like that running around, and I guess some men have come and populated some [xx] in the island, but it’s mostly these old women who lost everybody they loved during these wars, they’re right where the bombs went off right?

And I can’t remember if it’s on the Island, I don’t think it’s on the Island, nobody survives on the Island, but that the hardship builds so much happiness, that’s one of the things that they find in a lot of these research about happiness, is that like tough terrible hard things makes us better, makes us happier, right?

And so in some ways, just kind of ratcheting down brings us mindfulness of like what a dollar is and how you make a dollar, and then how you spend a dollar, that is happening as a real life thing, all of a sudden you’re totally oblivious to, right? Because guess what, one click and it’s here in two days, right?

So Amazon Prime and all that stuff. Yeah, $4 of [xx] is here tomorrow. Oh, see 3.99, it’s not even 4, it’s 3.99, right? This is the world’s we live in, but the point is I’m just remembering those conversations, how fun they can be, and how this idea of doing a side project, one of the biggest things, the first thing that I actually have on my list to talk about is like start now, do it now, this is the most exciting fun thing you could do right now, and it’s just free, like you give up lunch, right?

And it’s like the national reserve, it’s like one weekend a year and two weeks of my, I don’t know, something like that, but you can choose every month to give a weekend and just build a thing. I found this article called the 51 coolest side projects we’ve ever seen, and let me see if If I still have it up, I don’t.

I just want to like, there is a few of them, I’ll but it on the show’s there is a few of them that were just really cool because they are just simple ideas. The message is medium rare, okay? This person goes around, I don’t know if it’s a he or a she, and kind of does a review of his hamburgers, but then uses bits from the hamburger to talk about design principles, so it’s a way to just sort of make you hungry and learn a little bit about design at the same time.

Let’s see there were some pod casters a song a day. Just some lady who was like listen, it was all my friends, they didn’t know where to find new music, and so I started sending them emails. One a week with one new song to listen to. And now it’s grown into a thing, as the side project, just a great idea, right?

Well that’s how Zeegut[sp?] started. There you go, Zeegut[sp?] and also so brain pickings and things. Want to see a couple of others. One Jim’s pancakes. He just every morning I think he does a new pancake make artist thing. This guy, he’s like the one that’s showing the millennium falcon done as a pancake.

Like he’s making pancake art, I love that, it’s incredible. Yeah, that one is cool. Catalyst, wedding [xx] I’m trying to find a couple of the other ones that I really liked. There is one that I actually signed up for “Think Clearly”. It’s a practice for hatching your visions and making them come true, it all begins with a blank page and coffee.

And every whatever week, he sends you a hand written, sort of like note kind of thing, telling you how to take better hand written notes, but not just taking notes, but like getting your thoughts out on a page, using a page and a pencil as a tool to get your thoughts out very clearly and very fast, so that you can actually do something with them.

Simple things like that where it’s all of these great little silly side projects, that can turn into incredible things. Like my friends, Dan and Tom at studio need who did that with the Glyth[sp?] and it just ended up becoming a massive thing that’s buffed their company making all of these great products.

The number one on my list is Start Now. Because what you’ve got to ask yourself. The questions that you get to ask yourself when you’re doing a side project are kind of the biggest questions you could ask yourself in the whole world, and if you keep them small like who am I and what am I here for? Well, I might be here in some way that’s unhelpful.

Let me sketch it, go back and say, what do I enjoy, what am I good at, what am I better at than other people are at maybe? And maybe making art out of pancakes. It’s a really big deal to do this stuff and it’s a real luxury to be able to do it. And in some ways I feel like you’re leaving money on the table when you’re not doing this, and I’m not talking about money, I’m talking about a life that you’re engaged in, that you’re like using your hands and your brain and your heart to do something and you’re taking a little piece of you and you’re putting it out in the world and it’s touching other people and then giving them words and pieces and images and things that they didn’t know how to express themselves, and it’s incredibly beautiful and it might be exactly what you are here on this earth to do.

So there is a little story I’m going to share here from a [xx] real life, one that closes out Steph or Corbett, you have any last words on your end?

I mean I don’t know which story you are going to share Barett, there is one that I kind of wanted to pose and put on the table in terms of questions to ask yourself. So, can I go ahead and read this little exert from Paul foxton[sp?] Share. Okay, so for me what this means is, in addition to asking yourself whether your financial situation needs to be in order for this to be viable, before you go and quit your job, ask yourself if you’re even doing it for the right reasons.

And this point really resonates with me, so he says; I left my job for a negative reason, I hated it. Once I was out I had no goal beyond that, I was directionless. When it happens next time I will be doing it for positive reason for something I really want to do. It’s more difficult to get there, but will be sustainable and meaningful.

And that I think it’s just really important for everybody out there. It goes hand in hand with our last episode. But, just because you hate your job, is not the reason to go jump off the cliff and try to make it work. You have to leave because feel on fire about what you’re going to work on next, and feel positive about it.

So, in addition to the financial questions, I would just say, ask yourself, are you doing this, are quitting your job for the right reasons or is it more of an escape hatch. I like that. Gormit. I think this, in the end, this is like a very personal decision and so hopefully everybody had like a lot of different point of view in terms of how you handle yourself with your job, chase that don’t burn your bridges, maybe burn you bridges if that’s right for you, may be quit your job tomorrow and see how it works out they’re kinds of way you can do it and its just all about your comfort level and how important.

I wonder how like upper middle class I really in, I assume that you can just go get a job if you need to I think that’s probably just a result of where I grew up and who my dad knows or something but. No, I think that’s true I really do I think that I told myself that. I think that for a lot of people I mean I’m going to go get a job but I also I don’t know how much my own opportunities in clustered level.

I do know people who struggle to get jobs but they would be in the opposite situation, they would be unemployed trying to build a business and maybe that’s a whole different conversation we can have. And I’m not talking about getting a dream job I’m talking about flipping burgers. Or whatever it is or being an over driver or something, the cool thing now is imagine this.

This is something we didn’t talk about throughout this whole conversation but there’s just this whole gig economy out there where you could be an over-driver, you could be a ttask grabit[sp?]. You could do all these things just to get by without having to have a boss and and that’s a pretty cool thing, I think that’s going to become a more realistic option for a lot of people going forward, where if you have a business idea you can do these things on the side that allow you to be flexible with your time so that if maybe you worked hard the first 15 days of the month and you found out that I have earned enough from driving over now I’m going to spend the next week like working on my business idea full time and see how that goes.

Yeah I love it. Alright Beret[sp?] give us your story. Hey, this was from the firms and I’m not going to quote the name of the person but I want to share it because it’s powerful. He says “I won’t quit my day job unless my side projects can earn about three or four X of what I’m making now”. I work at a university and have fringe benefits that are out of this world.

I recently had major surgery with the price tag of over $40, 000 and I paid exactly zero dollars out of pocket my daughter is able to attend school nearly tuition free and my sons will enjoy the same benefit when it’s their time. The university provides me with 20 days paid vacation days, plus two more paid week at Christmas plus paid sick days.

in other countries where health insurance is not tied to employment, you probably don’t face this dilemma. But it’s a major thing here and frankly I think it hold back many would be entrepreneurs. I was self employed as a copy writer for several years more than five and I had some excellent years and then several nightmare years during the recession I also think the market is being [xx] by so many people making writing courses and hanging out their shingles as independent writers so that worried me too.

So that’s why I sought refuge in current fulltime gig and luckily I was able to retain some of my clients as a moonlighter. Now, I’m transitioning again away from client work into building my own online business. And so why I wanted to close with that one is we get it, it’s hard. The system is hard if you’re making a lot of money and you have a certain lifestyle it can be difficult if you have kids, if you have medical issues it can be difficult.

And yet there are so many people building businesses that help them have a better career make more money than they ever could in their own job, and live their life that they want to live. And at some point you have to detach yourself from the job that you have and the things and the lifestyle that you are tied to in order to experience things that could be greater than that.

And if you’re not willing to do those things it might just be that you always have a side project then you don’t ever have a full time business, but at the end of the day it’s going to be personal and you’re going to have to make some tough decision to get there. I have been Chase [xx] ReevesI’ve been [xx] I’ve been Barry Brooks.

I’ve been Steph Crowder, And we’ll see you there, and we’ll see you another time. So there you have it, Fizzleshow. Course/115 at 115, because if you’re following, following the [xx] there, listen you’re going to find show notes, you’re going to find the links that we mentioned to all of those sites it’s you’re going to find conversation going on about this episode there, including that Garry [xx] web 2.0 talk.

If you haven’t seen that, go to Fizzle show. Course/115 and watch it right now, because it really is great. Here is an iTunes review from W server in the US of A. I have to admit your last show, because it will show. Course/113, discussing Mary’s problems trying to monetize her following was just a great show.

Thank you for the different opinions allowing the listeners, me, to have opinions to weight before moving ahead. Thank you so much w server. Listen if you like this, please leave us an honest rating on iTunes, it doesn’t cost you much and it means a world to us because it helps other hopeful entrepreneurs find the show.

Simply search for the show in iTunes store and click right overview, you know what our goal here is, is to help starting business builders feel more comfortable in their own skin, and you leave us a review, you help us do that. You can also share this episode or some other episodes with your friend, that helps as well.

Thanks. Alright folks, remember no matter how hard it gets or how hot it gets, we’re humans bring us together you are not alone and it’s not a win lose zero sum game, let’s make something we care about, thank you, take care. [xx] hard and and dig in thanks, we’ll talk to you next [xx] Friday.

We appologize for any innacuracies in this transcript. We are still looking for a transcript vendor that can, let us say capture our unique way of doing things 🙂

“Start your business as a side project AND balance your time well. Here’s how. ”
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The Top 10 Mistakes in Online Business

Every week we talk with entrepreneurs. We talk about what’s working and what isn’t. We talk about successes and failures. We spend time with complete newbies, seasoned veterans, and everything in between.

One topic that comes up over and over again with both groups is mistakes made in starting businesses. Newbies love to learn about mistakes so they can avoid them. Veterans love to talk about what they wish they had known when starting out.

These conversations have been fascinating, so we compiled a list of the 10 mistakes we hear most often into a nifty lil' guide.

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