I should clarify. I would run a single Riptide or less and then Kroot and Krootox ect. I would do a lot to tone down my list and they still couldn't beat it. I doubt if I fielded an entire army of vespid they could beat me. I even took pathfinders with upgrades. Brought shadowsun instead of a commander or buffmander and had her join a team of fusion suits. Even maxed out my Tau troop squads.

There was a few close games where I had a single unit left, but ultimately nothing I did could lose. I would probably have to go out of my way to skip shooting a turn to give them a chance to win. My only opponents are orks, IG, and Tyranids. Also my IG opponent thinks wyverns are one of the *BAD WORD DELETED!* units in the IG codex and nothing can convince him otherwise. I even told them to go for my markerlights and they never went for them except like once. I've even tried proxying my skyrays as devilfish and ended up tank shocking them off the board and disrupting them enough with getting in the way to shoot them.

EditI have tried using the burst tide. They said it was less powerful, but still over powered.

I should clarify. I would run a single Riptide or less and then Kroot and Krootox ect. I would do a lot to tone down my list and they still couldn't beat it. I doubt if I fielded an entire army of vespid they could beat me. I even took pathfinders with upgrades. Brought shadowsun instead of a commander or buffmander and had her join a team of fusion suits. Even maxed out my Tau troop squads.

There was a few close games where I had a single unit left, but ultimately nothing I did could lose. I would probably have to go out of my way to skip shooting a turn to give them a chance to win. My only opponents are orks, IG, and Tyranids. Also my IG opponent thinks wyverns are one of the *BAD WORD DELETED!* units in the IG codex and nothing can convince him otherwise. I even told them to go for my markerlights and they never went for them except like once. I've even tried proxying my skyrays as devilfish and ended up tank shocking them off the board and disrupting them enough with getting in the way to shoot them.

EditI have tried using the burst tide. They said it was less powerful, but still over powered.

Well the way you describe it it seems your opponents are partly terrible player and partly use low tier armys and you are an above average player in the first place.If they don't want to learn there is nothing you can do. Just stay friendly and let them play their game. Wait for them to come to you to get some help instead of trying to take the initiative on that and if they don't come to you then that's fine as well.Also i wouldn't do such a thing as skipping an entire turn of shooting. That won't be fun for them at all.

Back then we had a player in our FLGS which was a lot better than most of us. He almost always beat us without a problem with his CQC dwarf army list (WHFB). Given we were still learning but he was a great guy who only gave us advice when we asked for it other than explaining rules so it was always a great atmosphere to play against him and it actually encouraged us to play smarter than we used to just because we wanted to not because he told us to.He also never really toned his army down. It was not the kind of army he would field in bigger tournaments, just the kind of army he liked to play (which was still not bad at all with his skill).

Q: In the case of a template weapon that fires two or more times (such as the Blood Angels’ frag cannon), do they still only inflict D3 hits when firing Overwatch, or D3 hits per number of shots in the weapon profile?A: D3 hits per number of shots in the weapon’s profile.

[/quote]Alright, hadn't seen that.[/quote]

I play ITC and as of now we don't use the FAQ we will be using it when it's official however it is not. And RAW if you have a weapon that fires twice it may shoot twice and also there is no other assault 2 flamer they don't exist outside of tau. So then it begs the question if you charge a Waithgaurd with D-scythes does that mean it can only fire a single D3 right. Not at all by shooting a assault 2 weapon fires twice following the same rules. As a multi shot weapon. All this is legal until the FAQ is released officially

The 109 is a gorgeous mini with rules you should expect to be changed by the next imperial armor. As it stands now it is a glass cannon, but evasive. The best upgrades you can give it are velocity tracker and stimulant injector.

Against any army with high AV or large numbers of vehicles and fliers it is pure death with its haywire burst and flamer, and it's ability to run from combat makes it slippery.

The problem is it is a bullet magnet and your enemies will divert attention to it like moths to a flame. You have to use it wisely. Your dtones weigh you down.

I strongly suggest you have homing beacons in your army for it to deep strike safely and plenty of support to make sure it doesn't die too soon.

I sure hope they don't nerf it. If anything this and the new Barracuda need buffs. Tau is in dire need of potent toys. Particularly in the ITC. I would actually like it's stats to stay the same and it get some cool formations. If it's kept potent your average Tau haters will never have to fight it an engage their brain since its so rare outside the ITC, but it's still there for the ITC and advanced players to actually give our lists a chance at the top.

If this was a GW model it would almost certainly be nerfed into oblivion and called bloody murder unless it was a Necron, Eldar, or Space Marine release. Xenos can't have nice things. Look at the rage our Riptide gets and it's not even all that great compared to some of the super OP stuff out there these days. People just hate Tau.

I actually wouldn't mind a slight nerf. It's an awesome model with awesome weapons but a little bit too strong for many casual games unfortunately.A nerf of the actual unit and strong formations for the tournament player would be great imo.

I am with Jacket on this one. Considering all the cheese that's being poured into other codices individual units (yes I am excluding formations, I don't like them. I prefered the old CAD style more).So hopefully no nerf will follow up. From what I´ve seen there has not been so much hate for 109, like it was for 107 R´varna. Which in all honesty is not as OP. It just came out to early when more of the GW cheese was not yet out and thus earned a bucket of tears, hate and a nerf to go with it. Had it been released now, when the meta is full of Grav/D weapons and nonsense that allows you to assault from DS, it would suffer much less flame.

Everything FW needs buffs. It needs to set the new Tau standard and make GW up its game with our codex units and updates in the future. Only FW have the ability to put pressure on GW by taking sales from them to their own Tau stuff.

Panzer wrote:Well I guess I'm the only one who thinks Tau are in a good spot balance wise and other Codices should get nerfed or buffed to get on the same level as ours..

Oh if we were all brought down equally before 8th ed comes sure. Even bringing us down to the other armies levels (and buffing weaker armies) and finding a middle ground, but I got a feeling that won't happen till 8th and a completely new edition. So while we're still in this rat race we should get the buffs.

Panzer wrote:Well I guess I'm the only one who thinks Tau are in a good spot balance wise and other Codices should get nerfed or buffed to get on the same level as ours..

Oh if we were all brought down equally before 8th ed comes sure. Even bringing us down to the other armies levels (and buffing weaker armies) and finding a middle ground, but I got a feeling that won't happen till 8th and a completely new edition. So while we're still in this rat race we should get the buffs.

It. will never happen. There was never and will never be 100% balance between all armies in Warhammer.

Panzer wrote:Well I guess I'm the only one who thinks Tau are in a good spot balance wise and other Codices should get nerfed or buffed to get on the same level as ours..

Oh if we were all brought down equally before 8th ed comes sure. Even bringing us down to the other armies levels (and buffing weaker armies) and finding a middle ground, but I got a feeling that won't happen till 8th and a completely new edition. So while we're still in this rat race we should get the buffs.

It. will never happen. There was never and will never be 100% balance between all armies in Warhammer.

The thing is that for casual gaming we are the top. But to a tournament player if tau make a mistake we are crushed the other person will have armor 60 armor 3 compared to riptide wing of 15 wounds a single wound is devastating to a riptide based list and in our currant meta not taking riptides or our most OP stuff is statistical suicide firewarriors can't cut through that many MEQs or Demons or Eldar.

The red baron is obvious but the Rope-a-Dope is a little more nuanced. If you deploy him round 1 against an enemy with deep strikers he becomes a juicy target for a drop attack and that's where the EWO comes into play. I have seen entire drop pods full of marines, grey knight terminators and dreadnought die the moment they appear next to him. If he survives and the enemy is still present into your next phase you can boost away or leave into reserves.

A note on drones: these are iffy because you can't leap with them and you cannot leave them until they die. I suggest combining them with the Rope-A-Dope version for a little extra survivability but the Red Baron load out doesn't work as well (you need to be quick to catch enemy fliers.)

Grogalmighty wrote:Ok. I just wanted to clarify something and add an addendum.

There are two viable builds for the 109.

Red Baron: Stim injector and velocity tracker

Rope-a-Dope:Stim injector and early warning override.

The red baron is obvious but the Rope-a-Dope is a little more nuanced. If you deploy him round 1 against an enemy with deep strikers he becomes a juicy target for a drop attack and that's where the EWO comes into play. I have seen entire drop pods full of marines, grey knight terminators and dreadnought die the moment they appear next to him. If he survives and the enemy is still present into your next phase you can boost away or leave into reserves.

A note on drones: these are iffy because you can't leap with them and you cannot leave them until they die. I suggest combining them with the Rope-A-Dope version for a little extra survivability but the Red Baron load out doesn't work as well (you need to be quick to catch enemy fliers.)

A agree with you on the Rope a dope 109. It really works out for the most part and while it's nice having skyfire on the 109 you might as well get 2 barracudas and call it a day skyfire stuff should be used by skyrays and barracudas because they are just more effective.

halogod786 wrote:if running farsight use the ECR as much as you can it will save your life

I assume you're talking about the earth caste pilot array right? Due note that with the new (draft) FAQ rolling gets hot for blasts (and thus I assume templates) isn't a to hit roll, thus you can't use the earth caste array to reroll a 1 you'd roll on your gets hot check for your flamers.

Please note that the rules for the Y'Vahra specify that it can only be taken in a Codex: Tau Empire Detachment.