Well Pet Store/TCG has been around since at least Wrath. I just don't understand why it's just now an issue. I can understand people not liking microtransactions. What I can't understand is why they are only getting up in arms now, as opposed to way back when TCG and Pet Store were first introduced to WoW?

TGC started out in 2006. No one said any more than how much they wanted the various mounts that came along with it. That's kinda where the 'demands' for a game store stemmed from, since the availability of trading cards was pretty restricted depending on location, and the mounts themselves ended up more readily available from third parties for the price of a selection of limbs, as oppose to the general playerbase for the much more reasonable couple of pounds a pack - but even there, still something of a gamble.

There was outrage and slippery slope hailing of the end times when the sparkly pony was launched toward the end of Wrath (2010ish?), that wained however as people turned instead to ridiculing That Retarded Horse as people sensed the slope was pretty shallow and offered reasonable footing.

The only person that has zero understanding on the basics of what WOW is built on is you Mr. And you best show that when you call ppl that are not willing to pay extra as lazy... And idiots. No they are not. That sort of logic just shows how far YOU are from reality if you think Blizzard can come out with statement like that.

Blizzard can not have it both ways. Thats just a fact. They can not both keep subscription and ingame cash shop. You might accept it.... but like I said... You dont get the logic of basic consumer rights. Blizzard WOULD be betraying players that have been paying for this game for years if they add the shop and still expect the same ppl to pay sub. Thats just a fact that not even you with your poor logic can not debate. Cause Blizzard said it THEMSELFS few years back. And thats just a fact they and you have to accept.

We chose to go with the subscription-based model instead of that approach. We've taken the approach that we want players to feel like it's a level playing field once they're in WoW. Outside resources don't play into it -- no gold buying, etc. We take a hard line stance against it. What you get out of microtransactions is kind of the same thing and I think our player base would feel betrayed by it. I think that's something else you have to decide on up-front instead of implementing later.

--Rob Pardo, Blizzard's Senior Vice President of Game Design (2/20/2008)

It was not ME that said ppl have the right to feel betrayed. It was the Senior Vice President of game design at BLizzard. So putting "betrayed" in "" just shows your lack of real logics instead of accepting the bloody obvious that Blizzard can not come back few years later after adding few mounts and pets and rip the core out of the game - and still think 8 million players are willing to pay subs like nothing happened. It doesn't work like that Mister.

First of all, don't verbal me. I said that people who aren't willing to pay extra are either lazy or unsuccessful or they just don't want the items enough. The ones who claim that they're being somehow wronged by this are the idiots.

"The logic of consumer rights"? Hahaha! You're just spouting nonsense; misusing words and concepts you quite clearly don't understand. Blizzard is well within their rights to maintain a cash shop; Pardo's comment clearly refers to anything that gives a player a competitive advantage in-game. He specifically cited gold buying because of the versatility of that currency in-game and thus the advantage it could offer a player, as well as the de-stabilisation of the in-game economy. Cosmetic helmets, mounts and pets do none of these things.

I'd suggest you quit while you're behind, little boy. Your general ignorance of the business world is making you look like a complete, belligerent fool.

Originally Posted by Grevie

I can try, but i read your post.. it will be a waste, you think you re right about your statements, and a bit angry about people thinking diffrent than you, you even are challenging me about it, it will be a waste of time, with you trying to close every argument, we can argue hours, that's seems a waste of time , but yeah #paymore is the new trend, it seems ilogical for the consumers, get more things for
what you already pay make the money most valuable. IHMO.

Oh, yes, of course. You don't need to provide any evidence for your claims, because you can call me unreasonable - yet another unsupported claim! I'd again re-iterate my request that you all stop invoking logic in this argument, it has absolutely nothing to do with logic. The only logic rearing its head around here is in the form of logical fallacies spewed up by the angry, shrieking crowd of people who don't understand what a business is.

@Inahu: You are wrong, and blind to the simple fact that the 15 dollars you pay every month is supposed to give you all out access to what the game has to offer.

If we let them get away with this its only a matter of time before its more stuff you can buy but still have to pay a monthly fee.

It is comparable to having to pay for Xbox Live as a "service" to just use your internet you already pay for, at least in the future they are committing to having a ton more servers so its more reasonable that way.

and by the "its a buisness making money" argument, it would be ok if they doubled the monthly fee, and also charged a 1 dollar admission to every raid you do to help fund the instance servers.

"From the first to the end of the Sixth Generation of consoles, for THIRTY FOUR YEARS, this is what﻿ gaming was and it was FANTASTIC! You enjoyed the experience and gaming was what it was supposed to be FUN, COMPLETE, no DLC back then the new content was called a sequel and we waited eagerly for it."

"The logic of consumer rights"? Hahaha! You're just spouting nonsense; misusing words and concepts you quite clearly don't understand. Blizzard is well within their rights to maintain a cash shop; Pardo's comment clearly refers to anything that gives a player a competitive advantage in-game. He specifically cited gold buying because of the versatility of that currency in-game and thus the advantage it could offer a player, as well as the de-stabilisation of the in-game economy. Cosmetic helmets, mounts and pets do none of these things.

There is extensive gold selling/buying in game, you should be completely blind to not see it. Apart from scammers, there are also people who use cash-shop to sell mounts to other people for gold. Blizzard even tried to make it "easier" by introducing 1 BoE pet. And in-game cash-shop always leads to promotion of gold-selling, directly and indirectly. Gold-buying via cash-shop existed for quite a time.

I'd suggest you quit while you're behind, little boy. Your general ignorance of the business world is making you look like a complete, belligerent fool.

Sadly, tons of people who are leaving game, can't outweight income which Acti-Blizzard gets from brainwashed people. By buying pet/mount/help/flask/whatever in $$-shop, those people are just supporting them to continue with their foul practices.

Oh and when you will start to make accent on "business" in game, well you are killing game, that's it. Gaming was used to be art, not some cash cow for milking. That quote from Pardo was not the only evidence of Blizzard (pre-Activi$ion) politics, when cash-shop was something entirely unacceptable for WoW. Now it's even gonna become part of in-game UI like in some f2p game. It's just a spit towards already paying customers.

If we're talking about items and not the currency. I pay $20 for a mount. I have to sub to use it.

Blizzard also had to figure out ways to help market it and having it link back to WoW likely made them some nice money. The RNG on top of market place kept these items in the dream category. Seriously sucks though to not be able to use something because of a subscription fee.

Every time Blizzard announces something new for the pet store we see the same threads come up about how a game with a monthly sub fee shouldn't have a microtransaction store. I get really frustrated when I see these posts because some people just don't get it.

You pay a monthly fee to be able to log in to your account and play; nothing more, nothing less.

Blizzard is a business and they have to do with that money whatever they feel will be most profitable. This can be anything from developing PvE and PvP content to developing items for the Blizzard store. The purpose of the former is to keep people subscribed to WoW and maybe even bring old people back/new people in. The latter is designed to bring in additional revenue to be able to develop more content.

The most important thing to realize is that Blizzard will NEVER make Tier Sets or any current content gear available for cash; they are not stupid enough to do that and you can mark my words that it'll never happen.

The Blizzard store is not a slippery slope, it is a smart business move to bring in more money for the company. The more resources Blizzard has, the more content they can develop and the better off we are as players.

Many others in this thread have already disproved your opinion and thoeries.

Apply blizzards business model to any other subscription on the planet and you'd be outraged:
You login to Netflix and they've put no new movies on for 6 months. You do a search, find a new movie only to find when you click play, it tell's you there's going to be a $5 charge.
You get in an accident. You click your onstar button and they tell you they need to have your credit card number before they can contact help for you, and it will be a $20 fee.
You turn on your tv (directv/cable/dish whatever) only to find all you get are the infomercial channels. Every other show is pay per view.

Starting to see how dumb that model is? If you can't see it's the same exact thing, come back in a couple years when you're a little older and wiser.

Apply blizzards model to any other subscription service,you'd be outraged:
Netflix adds no new movies for a year, you click a new movie, there's a $5 fee.
You're in an accident, click your onstar button, but there's an addition $20 fee for them to help.
You turn on your tv only to find all you get are the infomercial channels. Every other show is pay per view.
See how dumb that model is?

You're ignorant if you think it'll stop at purely cosmetic stuff. You'll be seeing different sort of buffs to ingame currencies soon enough. Be that honor, conquest, valor, justice, charms - you name it.

I unsubbed today, been playing since early 2006 - and this is where I get off. It's the principle and the lack of integrity on Blizzard's side - not the current content.

They already have the exp boost for the in game store and are also putting in charms, you sir have esp.

To all of those people whore are going to unsub because of a Blizzard Store, can I have your gold ?

Some people will leave and some people will comeback

People are going to care about Blizzard Selling ilvl 483 pve gear when the during the 522 ilvl tier season ?
Selling a Season 11 pvp gear during season 13 ?

And let's face it, Raiding and RBG are serious business nowadays

For myself I cant wait to buy an xp potion 100% for my lvl 25 Alliance Pally, wich I don't have the courage and time ( I'm busy with my Horde) to start the leveling process again and then buy a 483 ilvl Pve Set so I can join Alliance raids. umadbro ?

WoW isn't a game where an instore game should work. Firstly it has a subscription fee, so they are double dipping into peoples wallets.

GW2 on the other hand is a perfect game for an in-store game, you can't pay to win like wow. Its not a gear progression game. its about aesthetics. Also they have a trade you can make gold in-game and convert it to the store currency gems. You don't have to spend a dime if farm enough, or you have money you can just buy currency via cash. GW2 is making huge amounts of money from their store because they release new content and stuff to buy ever 2 weeks. WoW can't and doesn't release new content that fast.

If Wow allows you to spend gold in the game store then its ok for old players who have banked a lot. bad for new players but I doubt there are a lot of new WoW players.

So it's ok for them to start charging us for raid/pvp gear since we're able to play without it. And the extra income and development might just go into new items for the store.

Let me explain something to you, the monthly fee goes to profit, powering all the systems wow run on and paying all the employees that work on maintaining wow.
When you buy an expansion you buy all the content that's intended for a full expansion.

Anyways, I think blizzard are realizing that a free to play model is the better option for todays gaming market but they're not going to throw their entire subscribtion fee away instantly. Give them a year to figure out how and what they'll do with cash shop and make a system that actually works for it, untill wow goes free to play expect monthly fees to get cheaper. Blizzard has said that they lack the "new" players to wow, part of that barrier that new players have to go past is the monthly fee and 4 expansions. It's simply expensive to start to play wow, espeacially if you're not sure what's it about. Making wow free to play will break half that barrier and it'll be a lot more inviting to new players once wow is free to play.

Because buying gold and buying items with no stats is in the same boat I mean, buying the new items coming out to the pet store will help me get world 1st and the highest arena rating ever obtained. This point has been said many times already but I guess it needs to be said again.

None of the items in the store are in anyway a requirement to play the game nor do they boost anything you do.

You are wrong OP. we pay for:
Account.
Maintenance
Premium Services that are:
Game content from time to time.
Opportunity to achieve what we want in game. (and we don't get this)
Imagine you rent a house but the owner tells you "if you want to use the kitchen you must pay additional fee"
And that is just wrong, good for the business but wronng.
And another wrong thing.
YOU pay the developers to make things, like content, items, achievements.
Well they made that items that will be sold at AH from the money you paid, and that money goes into services, soo they make things being paid from your own money and then they ask more money to give you that items. WRONG.

Until about 2 years ago all TCG items were Bind on Pick Up. Which means the only way you could get those items was by either a) buy TCG decks and b) buy item code on ebay. Most people didn't have access to the latest TCG expansions because their availability was limited so prices on these decks/codes if you didn't live in the US were pretty high.

Blizzard changed how TCG item work and made them Bind on Use after you redeem the codes probably because a) lots of people got scammed or b) they knew people value TCG items so much so they wanted to increase booster packs sales.

I tend to go with b) tbh because... well.. cash shops etc etc. Everything Blizzard does lately isn't in favor of the player, but their own pockets. Also, the return of specific discontinued loot cards in the most recent TCG expansion only strengthens my belief.

So, yeah, either you're a new player and probably don't know most of this stuff and how Blizzard changed over the years or you simply didn't pay much attention to it.

Someone mentioned gw2 as a game where u can get everything from the $$$ shop for ingame currency if u grind enough. Thats 100% true for Neverwinter too and i think to some extend to SWTOR.
I wish the ppl who are defending blizz and saying that this is just cosmetics think about what part of their game is actualy cosmetical. I personaly spend 75% of my time when im online into getting rare stuff: pets/mounts/good (imo) looking sets. I also spend a decent amount of time farming gold wich ALSO some ppl have it easy as a norwigian friend of mine for example that has no issue to spend 200 euro for a TCG loot and sell it ingame and do that every 3-4 weeks or so.
Ppl are correct when they say that this isnt something new and its been around for a while, BUT as all things its all about the scale. Eventualy it just gets out of line. For me i think the stepping stone wasent this ugly helmets, but instead the bat mount wich has been desired for a realy long time by a majority of players as a natural reward for the horde side.
Now for that random idiot who was calling ppl lazy for not buying the ingame store stuff. I get realy tired of ppl who thinks that everyone is in the same financial status as they are, and if they have tons of cash to spare so should everyone else. Come please to Bulgaria and get a normal goverment job with a magisters degree as i have , get ur 350 eu paycheck, pay ur fucking bills and come back to me again about ingame store.
Why should i feel like a second class player in WoW just because i cant afford all the stuff that TBFH is looking better than all the crap blizzard designs lately as a reward for PVP or PVE.
I would have been just 1/10 less frustrated if i could atlest farm for this items myself : ie farm gold and trade it for the blizz balance or smt, coz knowing its there and u can only get it for cash feels realy bad.
They should man up and come out clean and say if they intend to transition the game to F2P or folow the sub based system. If they come out clean and say that for example in 1 year from now they plan to drop the subb and the whole point of this item shop is that transition i could understand their actions. But for as this moment i find this bussness practises higly shady and unjust. As i stated earlier on page 32 blizzard is far away from broke to need extra 10-20% income. Ppl need to realise that every single move like this is like pining a nail to a deads man coffin. The truth is that this game relyes mostly on old players and bit by bit they quit, and even if u dont care now eventualy it will get to the point that u would quit aswell because there wont be a community left for u to play with (and this is not a theory its a fact, and ppl from low pop servers know it very well).

I don't get it. Blizzard is testing something to make more money that has barely any benefit for the consumers. People here are defending it with the only arguments "it doesn't affect your or my gameplay" or "I have plenty of money".

Can someone explain to me how this can makes sense to someone? Why do you people want this ingame store so badly? Why do you want to get rid of your money so badly?

It's seriously mind boggling... Blizzard seriously wants to claim that players asked for this and that the big benefit is that it's convenient because you don't have to alt-tab to your webbrowser anymore?

10 pages later, still no answer. Once someone can answer this we might be done "discussing".

Originally Posted by Inahu

Please, self-deetermined arbiter of logic, explain what is illogical about anyone asserting that a business broadening its income streams by offering a larger variety of content in exchange for real currency - thereby accomplishing the stated objective of every business ever - is illogical. Go ahead, I would love to see you try this one.

A business trying to make money is not illogical. You defending it as a consumer when you gain nothing from it besides being able to spend more money on their product and enjoy more advertisement is very illogical.

The only good argument I can come up with is that this way Blizzard makes more profit so they can put out more/better content. But who are we kidding. Like they are not swimming in money right now...
Would also be really hypocritical to think a business whos only purpose is to make more profit will spend your money for your benefit in a 9 year old game.

Because they are a business trying to make money also doesn't mean we need to accept that they are extremely greedy.

Again, it's a corporation, not some trust fund. They take additional revenue after covering overhead and invest it into other projects (not just "pocket" it). Sure, employees may get bonuses, but where do you think the money to make Hearthstone or Titan came from?

And as a corporation, they also try to make as much profit as possible with having to invest as little as possible. Do you really think all of their profit they turn around and invest and never take home any profit at all? They probably invest just enough to where they are near certain they will make a hefty profit from it. This is the basic fundamental of any business.

I hear SWTOR is a great game that uses the same paymodel as WoW USED to use. =D

SWTOR Is a good game... I play both. The Cartel Coins are a good idea... You get nice vanitey items. Its a company at the end of the day and they need to make money so kudos to them. As a long of people say if you dont want to the items dont buy them. Blizzard isnt saying if you have to buy this item or your account will be banned.... You are the foolish people buying them then complaining because you sent x $ on it

"Prepare for the unknown by studying how others in the past have coped with the unforeseeable and the unpredictable."
"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking."