And there's no one replacing us. As we age and move on, the next generation just doesn't want to grind. Why pay $15/month on top of the standard game cost when you can play with your friends for just the price of the disc?

Why go through 36+ hours of mind numbing leveling, with no challenge, no excitement, when you can hop into CoD multiplayer on day 1?

While other genres are expanding to try to reach new people and markets, the MMO market is shrinking. Fewer and fewer people are willing to put forth the hours, dedication, and coordination required to "have fun."

My take on WoW's decline - it's not just WoW. It's all MMOs. And it's no one's fault.

I don't think it's about generations. I think it's about casual gamers. Not everyone want to spend hours each day on a game.

Video Games/Computer Games are all about immersion. The entire facebook game mindset is destructive to gaming as a whole.
The sooner that gaming becomes the province of the gamer once again and not most of the public, the better. The RPG and RTS(And TBS as well) genres have suffered greatly since social gaming/casaul gaming has arrived.

id rather play wow than cod, cod is just full of little squeakers and kids even tho its an 18+ rated game atleast with wow you cant hear em cos theres no voice chat feature (well there is but nobody uses it).

---------- Post added 2013-03-19 at 06:58 AM ----------

tbh games will suffer alot due to tablet games and mobile games etc and online free games on facebook and miniclip but MMO genre is far from dead runescape is still going strong and its older than wow it was released in 2001 wow in 2004

Yeah, really. I'm not saying CoD is a great game, or a great line of games even - I'm more saying that it's that experience that kids want.
They don't want to put forth "investment" into their games. They don't want to have to pay $15/month for a game, or invest hours just to get something done, or have to coordinate "times" to play with friends that aren't just 15-20 minute windows.

They want to just jump in, start playing, immediately have fun, and occasionally play with friends.

There are so many different games out there, even in the same genre. Games have to compete for players' attention. If players have to go through a grind they find boring, they'll just go play something else. Extra Credits just came out with a video about intrinsic and extrinsic rewards.

Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

Video Games/Computer Games are all about immersion. The entire facebook game mindset is destructive to gaming as a whole.
The sooner that gaming becomes the province of the gamer once again and not most of the public, the better. The RPG and RTS(And TBS as well) genres have suffered greatly since social gaming/casaul gaming has arrived.

But those facebook games are played by people of all generations, young and old. My mother plays them and she's 48, and I know people my age who play them. It's not about different generations, it's about different kinds of players.

Yeah, really. I'm not saying CoD is a great game, or a great line of games even - I'm more saying that it's that experience that kids want.
They don't want to put forth "investment" into their games. They don't want to have to pay $15/month for a game, or invest hours just to get something done, or have to coordinate "times" to play with friends that aren't just 15-20 minute windows.

They want to just jump in, start playing, immediately have fun, and occasionally play with friends.

Then why play a MMORPG in the first place ? Games like CoD or Mario Kart and thousand of others give you exactly that ?!

The problem with WoW is that it focuses too heavily on items. People have been gradually shifting from the experience and challenge and entertainment and social interaction towards, "I just want that item".

It isn't necessarily a bad thing to have big time sink video games go the way of the dodo. There are numerous problems that arise from these types of games, more so the feeling you HAVE to be there or you wont progress. I know I personally plan to avoid mmos once WoW goes under. (If that ever happens)

And there's no one replacing us. As we age and move on, the next generation just doesn't want to grind. Why pay $15/month on top of the standard game cost when you can play with your friends for just the price of the disc?

Why go through 36+ hours of mind numbing leveling, with no challenge, no excitement, when you can hop into CoD multiplayer on day 1?

While other genres are expanding to try to reach new people and markets, the MMO market is shrinking. Fewer and fewer people are willing to put forth the hours, dedication, and coordination required to "have fun."

My take on WoW's decline - it's not just WoW. It's all MMOs. And it's no one's fault.

Ecactly why would i want to go through 36 hours of lvling only to put 100+ hours of grinding for a piece of loot? dont want to waste all my free time in one game seriously people have lives

Once, wow was tending to reward investment, now, it tend to reward skill, and it's better like that, i prefer this than a game where you can get everything ONLY by playing several hours, even if i'm playing a lot of time, that's just unfair to peoples who do not have time. (While EVERYONE can simply use his brain)
Also, raids are way harder than before cause of HM, in fact, Blizzard made content for everyone that's all, peoples cries cause the game is easy, but thoses peoples mostly havn't cleaned hardmode, and they complain about the game being easy while they aren't able to clean this supposedly easy content.

The world isn't what it was 8 years ago...... people have other things to do than burn hours and hours on something that is just a game.
Our economy is changing..... In the country I live in, I noticed in the past 10 years a huge change in how a family is organized.

Where the dad used to be able to support his family by working alone, that isn;t possible now; both parents need to work now to be able to have a nice, comfortable live with their kids.
The economy is still progressing to a 24/7 economy.
The world is getting faster and faster.

Where you could spend hours and hours on a game, that isn't possible anymore for a lot people.
I have a job which is going on 24/7; that is the nature of my job; because people wanna be able to access all kinds of services 24/7.
The world is getting smaller also... My services are used throughout the world. When people in my country are sleeping, people are awake and working in other countries.

The pressure to be good/great at what you do is increasing.

Games has to develop with these changes in the world. Games are supposed to be fun and something people can enjoy in between the business and stress of their daily lives.
If games become as stressful as daily live is, how will people keep playing it, if all they want is just to get away from stress and stuff?

People aren't looking for a second job, when they play a game, they are escaping that by means of a game.
These changes we see today in wow.

People don't have the time nor the need to be part of a virtual community; so we see a decline in community. People just aren't investing in that anymore.
People don't need grinds, they want to see the rewards quickly.
People don't want to hang in the middle of the content, they want to clear it all before the next patch hits.

These changes, I find logical, seeing the changes happening to our lives now.

And here I thought grinding was what defined MMORPGs, or RPGs in general. With WoW making grinds take less and less time, it feels like we're slowly going back to the Arcade-era where you just popped in a coin, shot some guys, and quit again.

---------- Post added 2013-03-19 at 09:07 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Synstir

-snip-

This game is +12, and afaik Blizzard never aimed at making this game for people in their 30s with families to support. And OP was talking about kids these days, he did mention that older people didn't have the time to play anymore.

Once, wow was tending to reward investment, now, it tend to reward skill, and it's better like that, i prefer this than a game where you can get everything ONLY by playing several hours, even if i'm playing a lot of time, that's just unfair to peoples who do not have time. (While EVERYONE can simply use his brain)
Also, raids are way harder than before cause of HM, in fact, Blizzard made content for everyone that's all, peoples cries cause the game is easy, but thoses peoples mostly havn't cleaned hardmode, and they complain about the game being easy while they aren't able to clean this supposedly easy content.

To be clear, the game was once about farming.

And, farming is boring, not hard, that's all.

It was only farming if you wanted to be on bleeding edge content. Thankfully, back then you didnt have to be doing bleeding edge content. Yea, there was a time when not everybody was clearing the same content. Back then it wasnt the loot that felt satisfying, it was beating the boss.

To me, the game started going south around the time of ulduar. Loved vanilla, though there was a bit too much farming... TBC was perfect... WotLK was meh. Ulduar was the turning point, because after that came ToC/ToGC which just felt like they threw it out there to give people loot and stuff to do. Naxx was kind of nice for people to experience, though the difficulty really wasnt there at all.

Once, wow was tending to reward investment, now, it tend to reward skill, and it's better like that, i prefer this than a game where you can get everything ONLY by playing several hours, even if i'm playing a lot of time, that's just unfair to peoples who do not have time. (While EVERYONE can simply use his brain)
Also, raids are way harder than before cause of HM, in fact, Blizzard made content for everyone that's all, peoples cries cause the game is easy, but thoses peoples mostly havn't cleaned hardmode, and they complain about the game being easy while they aren't able to clean this supposedly easy content.

And here I thought grinding was what defined MMORPGs, or RPGs in general. With WoW making grinds take less and less time, it feels like we're slowly going back to the Arcade-era where you just popped in a coin, shot some guys, and quit again.

---------- Post added 2013-03-19 at 09:07 AM ----------

This game is +12, and afaik Blizzard never aimed at making this game for people in their 30s with families to support. And OP was talking about kids these days, he did mention that older people didn't have the time to play anymore.

I don't think the majority of players are young............ But I don't have any numbers, so I can't be certain.