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Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...

Yeah I agree with that, but having Ray on the field next to him in practice, in the game and etc. would just be huge in my opinion. If there's any team that Burfict can excell with it's the Ravens.

The thing i love about Burfict is his attitude, he plays like a Mad man out there. He has 0 off the field issues, that we know of atleast. He's a model citizen of the field. He puts all his emotions in the game. Those are ravens traits.

Without a doubt we are the ideal team for him. Ray Lewis is also his Idol btw. Remember when Lardarius entered the league and he was slobbing all over Ed Reed's balls because he was his idol? That's the same thing here. It will be up to him to soak up everything he can from Ray Lewis.

The word is he's a quite guy off the field, kind of shy. He doesn't say much, but when the helmet comes on, he's a different guy. If you can get him to use that between the whistle, that would be incredible. His potential is out of this world.

Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...

Id take burfict all day. Watching him play makes you go "wow!". He's an absolute gamechanger and brings a sense of intimidation. He's got great instincts and is fantastic in pursuit. He plays with more fire than even ray lewis. Ill take a penalty here and there for a guy of his talent. Besides, nfl coaches and lockeroom can make a difference with his kind of issues. He has no off the field issues and doesent have a character problem. His problem is coachable. Id trade up for him

Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...

Far as Burfict is concerned, if your truly believe that with the right kind of "mentor" (Ray) he can be reigned in a little then its a no brainer and you take him. His talent is elite, his head is questionable. If the Ravens take a pass on him, then I will be willing to give the brain-trust the benefit of the doubt and assume the risk is to great (even if he turns out to be in credible)

The Ravens need to stick to the BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE philosophy which has served them well. That being said, likely there will be a guy who can fill a need available who is in that best player available argument.

“A linebacker's job is to knock out running backs, to knock out receivers, to chase the football,”
-Ray Lewis

Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...

If we do our "homework" and go talk to his coaches that he had a lot to do with getting fired, do you really think theyre going to be singing the kids praises? I think itll be more about his personal interview than the coaches, but thats only if he has a damn good reason for being so insubordinate, which really there is no excuse for.

I think that "mad man" mentality is great TV but not so great for a disciplined defense. with fines and penalties being thrown about for illegal hits, i just dont see the benefit out weighing the upside personally.

Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...

If Burfict interviews great he;s going to go a lot higher than #29. If he doesn't there are some issues that's going to push him out of the first round and significant guaranteed money. Either way I see him as a real long shot to be a Raven.

Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...

Wicked: do you really think Devon Still will be a good Pro? For some reason Penn State has produced some real bust defensive players as of late. (Maybin, Odrick, etc.)

It's hard to tell.

GOTA and I were talking about this the other day actually. The problem is most collegiate teams don't develop 3-4 personnel because only a handful of teams actually run the 3-4 (Alabama being one of them...Georgia another), so a lot of these big and quick DT's are devloping interior pass rushing skills and that's not the purpose of the 5-technique DE in the NFL. I think Devon Still could be a decent player in the right system.

Guys like Odrick, Glenn Dorsey,Phillip Merling, Marcus Spears, etc. were bigger DT's in a 4-3 that specialised in rushing the passer and getting into the backfield. All of these guys are in 3-4 schemes and just haven't done well with it at all. Sometimes it does take a few years for a guy to develop into a 3-4 guy and sometimes it's just not what they're good at doing.

Chris Canty is a good example of this. He's a long/lean DT (6'7" 317lbs) and his best attributes are quickness and burst, but he doesn't use his hands well and in Dallas' 3-4 he just didn't perform as well as he is now with the Giants in their 4-3.

Scouts and GM's need to be cautious with these guys.

Personally, I think Brandon Thompson is a better 3-4 guy than Devon Still. Thompson (Clemson) does a good job standing OL'men up at the LOS, shedding the block, and making a tackle. He's not a finesse guy. He'll do well in a 3-4. Alameda Ta'amu from Washington is another good 3-4 prospect, but as a NT. He and Dontari Poe (Memphis) will likely be the 1st two 3-4 NT's taken. Ta'amu is a lot more athletic than Poe is, but for a team like Houston or Pittsburgh, Poe is ideal. He's basically a Terrance Cody clone. Josh Chapman from Alabama is a great 3-4 prospect as he has been playing in the 3-4 for a few years now. Mike Martin (Michigan) and Tydreke Powell (UNC) also appear (so far) to be decent 3-4 prospects.

I bet if the Ravens, Giants, Lions, Bears, etc had a guy like Glenn Dorsey or Marcus Spears they would do really well as an interior pass ruisher.

The problem is most scouts and GM's seem to look at a kid's size and assume that they'll be able to function in a 3-4. That's not always the case.

Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...

Here are my thoughts on Burfict:

They call him the "coach killer". Yea...ok. Dennis Erickson was fired for going 21-28 in 3 years, including 2 losses in bowl games, and 3 losses to their in-state rival, Arizona. The fact that Dennis Erickson "couldn't control" Vontze Burfict says all you need to know about him as a coach.

1. Burfict had 1 year of being a shit head on a losing program with a coach who knew his days were numbered. The year before, Burfict was touted as one of the top defensive players in college. What happened there? Something did and it's going to have to come out during his interviews.
2. The guy, physically, is one of the best MLB talents that the NFL has seen since Patrick Willis. If he can get his head on straight or get into a locker room (like the Ravens) that can show him the ropes and how to be a professional then he's going to be one of the best MLB's in the league with a quickness.
3. The problem is he plays with reckless abandon and as a result can rack up some 15-yard penalties and his aggressive nature make him a liability in pass coverage. Can he be coached on that? At what point does upside and talent outweigh these types of issues because what's the point of having a great physical talent if he cannot play within the confines of the league?
4. He needs humbled and he needs a mentor.
5. I don't know that his risk is worth a 1st round pick.

Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

It's hard to tell.

GOTA and I were talking about this the other day actually. The problem is most collegiate teams don't develop 3-4 personnel because only a handful of teams actually run the 3-4 (Alabama being one of them...Georgia another), so a lot of these big and quick DT's are devloping interior pass rushing skills and that's not the purpose of the 5-technique DE in the NFL. I think Devon Still could be a decent player in the right system.

Guys like Odrick, Glenn Dorsey,Phillip Merling, Marcus Spears, etc. were bigger DT's in a 4-3 that specialised in rushing the passer and getting into the backfield. All of these guys are in 3-4 schemes and just haven't done well with it at all. Sometimes it does take a few years for a guy to develop into a 3-4 guy and sometimes it's just not what they're good at doing.

Chris Canty is a good example of this. He's a long/lean DT (6'7" 317lbs) and his best attributes are quickness and burst, but he doesn't use his hands well and in Dallas' 3-4 he just didn't perform as well as he is now with the Giants in their 4-3.

Scouts and GM's need to be cautious with these guys.

Personally, I think Brandon Thompson is a better 3-4 guy than Devon Still. Thompson (Clemson) does a good job standing OL'men up at the LOS, shedding the block, and making a tackle. He's not a finesse guy. He'll do well in a 3-4. Alameda Ta'amu from Washington is another good 3-4 prospect, but as a NT. He and Dontari Poe (Memphis) will likely be the 1st two 3-4 NT's taken. Ta'amu is a lot more athletic than Poe is, but for a team like Houston or Pittsburgh, Poe is ideal. He's basically a Terrance Cody clone. Josh Chapman from Alabama is a great 3-4 prospect as he has been playing in the 3-4 for a few years now. Mike Martin (Michigan) and Tydreke Powell (UNC) also appear (so far) to be decent 3-4 prospects.

I bet if the Ravens, Giants, Lions, Bears, etc had a guy like Glenn Dorsey or Marcus Spears they would do really well as an interior pass ruisher.

The problem is most scouts and GM's seem to look at a kid's size and assume that they'll be able to function in a 3-4. That's not always the case.

I'll give you the opposite case too. Last season at the Senior Bowl Cameron Jordan looked incredible. He had moves that other pass rushers in college just don't have. He played in a 3-4 defense at Cal and looked like he would be the perfect NFL 3-4 DE.

Unfortunately Jordan gets drafted by the Saints and is now a 4-3 DE. Mickey Loomis, the Saints GM, is at the Senior Bowl and was interviewed and asked about Jordan yesterday. He said that Jordan is doing very well against the run and is farther along in that then they hoped. It took him most of the season to start to figure out how to pass rush as a 4-3 DE and guess what, that's what a 4-3 DE is supposed to do. He's not supposed to be a run stopper.

Another case of a team trying to take a talented kid and recreate him. Eventually Jordan might become a very good 4-3 DE but at 6'4 290 with great run stopping skills it's obvious that he should be playing in a 3-4.

Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...

Bleed -

Considering the number of teams that need a MLB I think that if Hightower has a standout combine performance and does well during his interviews, which I don't see why he wouldn't, then he and Kuechly will be a top 20 selection.

This isn't a great class for DL'man, OL'man, corners, safeties, or QB's, so I think you'll see positions like RB and LB going a lot earlier than last year or the year before.

Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...

Originally Posted by GOTA

I'll give you the opposite case too. Last season at the Senior Bowl Cameron Jordan looked incredible. He had moves that other pass rushers in college just don't have. He played in a 3-4 defense at Cal and looked like he would be the perfect NFL 3-4 DE.

Unfortunately Jordan gets drafted by the Saints and is now a 4-3 DE. Mickey Loomis, the Saints GM, is at the Senior Bowl and was interviewed and asked about Jordan yesterday. He said that Jordan is doing very well against the run and is farther along in that then they hoped. It took him most of the season to start to figure out how to pass rush as a 4-3 DE and guess what, that's what a 4-3 DE is supposed to do. He's not supposed to be a run stopper.

Another case of a team trying to take a talented kid and recreate him. Eventually Jordan might become a very good 4-3 DE but at 6'4 290 with great run stopping skills it's obvious that he should be playing in a 3-4.

Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Bleed -

Considering the number of teams that need a MLB I think that if Hightower has a standout combine performance and does well during his interviews, which I don't see why he wouldn't, then he and Kuechly will be a top 20 selection.

This isn't a great class for DL'man, OL'man, corners, safeties, or QB's, so I think you'll see positions like RB and LB going a lot earlier than last year or the year before.

Whats the history of MLB being drafted in the first round though? I tried looking up a position breakdown. assuming FB TE and Safety are probably the least, id assume a MLB is probably 4th on that list as far as first round picks used on the position. I dont think teams value ILB as much as other positions, unless you have a once in a lifetime talent (Lewis, Willis, etc) not saying these guys arent talented but are they in the upper echelon that teams wont see better value?