It's not at all more complex, OMG theres a few items that do different things, i have to buy the recipes for some items, there's alot more items. There's a reason LoL took those things out, it's just pointless fluff in the game that adds nothing. It's kinda like Repair costs in RPGs, they add nothing to the game but people keep putting them in, even in games where the economy doesn't matter.

If anyone really has that much trouble with Dota 2 and seriously considers it hard, there's much more important issues with those peoples mental states.

You must be extremely biased in your thinking if you believe that DotA and LoL are on the same level of complexity/difficulty.

There are many important gameplay elements in DotA that are not present in League. Items and skills are also far more varied and have more of an impact on gameplay in DotA when compared to League. This coming from someone who has a great understanding of both League and DotA (~1.3k League games played and ~400 DotA games).

I have a lot of friends that I played League with who have been trying out DotA recently and literally ALL of them complain that DotA is far more complex than League. Literally anyone who has played both games for a decent amount of time will tell you that DotA is unquestionably more complex, unless they are lying or have not played both games enough.

The only thing "complex" about dota 2 is runes,(Supposedly) items, and putting your points into either stats or a skill.

Alot of the abilities between LoL and Dota 2 are exactly the same. You could say they both copy eachother but who knows or cares.

The item system in Dota 2 is as complex as the Rune/Mastery systems in LoL, I.E not at all, I.E As complex as going to elitest jerks for WoW talents.

IF you really think the item system that you spend a maximum of 10seconds using during a match of Dota 2 adds complexity to the game then.. whatever floats your boat.

Dota 2 is not hard
LoL is not hard

Yeah the only champion i have really played is juggernaut in Dota 2, The only champions i play in LoL are Nunu and Karthus. I have only lost 1 match in Dota 2 and that was my one and only bot match against expert bots. Juggernaut i build Agility boots and stack battlefuries, I'm unstoppable and carry my team. Karthus/Nunu i build Glass cannon AP builds, I'm unstoppable and carry my team. Both games are easy, both games aren't hard. The complexities of both games take an hour at most to get used to, but then you never really think of them again. Neither are best.

I will say again what they need to fix in Dota 2, Give more rewards to make you want to keep playing, And fix the awful camera. i remember when people used to bash games for their horrible cameras, i don't understand why people don't do it for Dota 2. In LoL the camera distance is perfect and you can see you're entire revealed area around your champion. In Dota 2 all the way zoomed out you can only see like 15 feet around your champion, Example would be someone can gank you without you seeing them even though they are within your revealed fog of war, that is a HUGE game flaw.

They need to fix alot of stuff if they don't want dota 2 to remain a very niche game, they need to show something that they are above LoL and HoN, right now they are just trying to make it as much as the original as possible, you may say this is good and i would agree, but they won't make the money to maintain the game that way. I wan't Dota 2 to be a success.

Yeah the only champion i have really played is juggernaut in Dota 2, The only champions i play in LoL are Nunu and Karthus. I have only lost 1 match in Dota 2 and that was my one and only bot match against expert bots. Juggernaut i build Agility boots and stack battlefuries, I'm unstoppable and carry my team. Karthus/Nunu i build Glass cannon AP builds, I'm unstoppable and carry my team. Both games are easy, both games aren't hard. The complexities of both games take an hour at most to get used to, but then you never really think of them again. Neither are best.

I find it funny how you talk about shit only working in low ELO games and then say shit like this.

Zefie, he's saying he goes glass cannon Nunu & Karthus and is +1400, therefore being qualified to talk about LoL and DotA2 as if his opinion is important and worth something. Try to not take him so seriously.

If you watch team fights from professional games, the majority of the action is not RNG based. Most kills are made off of hard CC, the kind of thing you can't RNG your way out of. The variation in gold reward per kill is not even noticeable.

Higher level players who are playing for prize money tend to prefer not to let their victory be a dice roll, either. Heroes such as PA and ogre who are completely reliant on their RNG are not highly favorable among competitive teams.

Thanks for the response. That makes sense. Even though it's not noticable, it still makes me wonder a bit why they would implement random gold gain from minions then in the first place.

Doesn't matter to me at all, I was just curious about it.

Also, Zefie, thanks a lot for the offer on showing me around. I'm actually in the field at the moment with a really crappy connection and not a lot of time, but after summer, when the fieldseason is over (I'm a biologist) I should have more time, and would be thankful if you could show me around a bit =)

There is definitely some luck involved here, which is why bottle mid with movement skills (qop, weaver, storm) are so popular. The only real way to counter these heroes is to sit on the rune spawn yourself, and if it spawns on the other side, well tough luck. You can't send a side lane to cover the rune 1v1 against a mid, you really can't. You're going to send your CM bot to cover bot rune against a qop at 4 minutes? CM is level 3 and QoP is 5 or 6, CM is going to die, straight up, rune or no rune. And you're not going to send the carry and waste two minutes of his farm just on the offchance he actually gets a rune.

It's not a big enough deal for me to cry about it though. I still consider rune control more skill than RNG. If runes are really that big of a deal to you, you can swap out hard supports for roamers/gankers/carry supports who CAN camp runes with your mid. And that's what it comes down to, pick choices like that that offer you different strengths and weaknesses throughout the match. The more you remove things like rune RNG, the more you remove the need for map control, the closer we get to LoL meta (1 top 1 mid carry/supp bot jungler lewl)

@Waevyrn
The random gold goes all the way back to RoC DotA from what I remember. It's just a kickback to how gold rewards work in ladder games, and there hasn't been a reason to change it. I guess at this point that makes it more flavor and tradition than anything else. If anyone has a better reason I'd love to hear it, but I'd be pretty skeptical.

There is definitely some luck involved here, which is why bottle mid with movement skills (qop, weaver, storm) are so popular. The only real way to counter these heroes is to sit on the rune spawn yourself, and if it spawns on the other side, well tough luck. You can't send a side lane to cover the rune 1v1 against a mid, you really can't. You're going to send your CM bot to cover bot rune against a qop at 4 minutes? CM is level 3 and QoP is 5 or 6, CM is going to die, straight up, rune or no rune. And you're not going to send the carry and waste two minutes of his farm just on the offchance he actually gets a rune.

It's not a big enough deal for me to cry about it though. I still consider rune control more skill than RNG. If runes are really that big of a deal to you, you can swap out hard supports for roamers/gankers/carry supports who CAN camp runes with your mid. And that's what it comes down to, pick choices like that that offer you different strengths and weaknesses throughout the match. The more you remove things like rune RNG, the more you remove the need for map control, the closer we get to LoL meta (1 top 1 mid carry/supp bot jungler lewl)

@Waevyrn
The random gold goes all the way back to RoC DotA from what I remember. It's just a kickback to how gold rewards work in ladder games, and there hasn't been a reason to change it. I guess at this point that makes it more flavor and tradition than anything else. If anyone has a better reason I'd love to hear it, but I'd be pretty skeptical.

Maybe I'm a nub but why don't you just put a ward close by to the rune? We used to do that in HoN all the time. Ward everywhere to give you sight and map control. Or if you have a "pet" class hero have his pet sit at the rune. The beast master for instance.

People do do that, but if you're not faster than the other mid hero or he leaves for the rune before you and gets lucky (50/50 chance isn't that lucky either) then you miss the rune. Rune controls aren't as much for the rune anymore as they are for vision on the major gank lane that is the river early game. Most mids will sit on runes as they spawn, unless they picked a hero like QoP who can teleport to them. And if you're against a hero like QoP you HAVE to sit on runes or she's getting every single one of them.

I'm still surprised midweaver has gone out the door, that used to be mega popular. Even with QoP you won't beat 522 movespeed to the runes.

It's every 2 minutes on the dot. You leave your lane at 1:50 or so and you'll be standing on the spawn location at the right time, you don't have to miss more than a creep or two in lane which isn't really a big deal.

Oh shit I didn't know that. Thanks! Starting just after the horn? I'll have to get a timer.

---------- Post added 2012-06-21 at 02:57 AM ----------

So lame. I was 8-1 with BH rocking this sven/drow combo on top lane who died so fast. Then the game just hits a hug lag spike and tells me to download the latest client. Apparantly it downloads the client as your playing and wanted to install but I didn't have the hdd space. It was lame.