Of course, everything written before. not mean that each individual can for its own development internally be living in the age of light and life, or at any other time, it's personal growth and independently. of the stage is the universe. right?

I think that's the point Absonite,
I do not know if it is exactly the "enlightenment" as we say sometimes, but I think, it is felt that the ideal of light and life, with all that implies, and want to bring it to life. While this clash with the logical limitations of the outside world.

Nelson asked: "What would you think if I were to extend my question beyond an individual world that is settled in light and life to a local universe, a super universe or better yet, the entire grand universe? Could a grand universe, settled in light and life have exhausted all possible experience?"

Hey Nelson - I don't think there will ever be an end to creationism or experiential growth into potentiality. The finaliter adventure to come will also be in a time and space universe so the adventure continues. A couple of quotes on the question:

(353.7) 31:10.11 We venture the forecast of future and greater outer universes of inhabited worlds, new spheres peopled with new orders of exquisite and unique beings, a material universe sublime in its ultimacy, a vast creation lacking in only one important detail — the presence of actual finite experience in the universal life of ascendant existence. Such a universe will come into being under a tremendous experiential handicap: the deprivation of participation in the evolution of the Almighty Supreme. These outer universes will all enjoy the matchless ministry and supernal overcontrol of the Supreme Being, but the very fact of his active presence precludes their participation in the actualization of the Supreme Deity.

(353.8) 31:10.12 During the present universe age the evolving personalities of the grand universe suffer many difficulties due to the incomplete actualization of the sovereignty of God the Supreme, but we are all sharing the unique experience of his evolution. We evolve in him and he evolves in us. Sometime in the eternal future the evolution of Supreme Deity will become a completed fact of universe history, and the opportunity to participate in this wonderful experience will have passed from the stage of cosmic action.

(353.9) 31:10.13 But those of us who have acquired this unique experience during the youth of the universe will treasure it throughout all future eternity. And many of us speculate that it may be the mission of the gradually accumulating reserves of the ascendant and perfected mortals of the Corps of the Finality, in association with the other six similarly recruiting corps, to administer these outer universes in an effort to compensate their experiential deficiencies in not having participated in the time-space evolution of the Supreme Being.

(201.9) 17:3.11 On the headquarters of each superuniverse the reflective organization acts as a segregated unit; but on certain special occasions, under the direction of Majeston, all seven may and do act in universal unison, as in the event of the jubilee occasioned by the settling of an entire local universe in light and life and at the times of the millennial greetings of the Seven Supreme Executives.

(642.5) 56:7.5 Each new evolutionary attainment within a sector of creation, as well as every new invasion of space by divinity manifestations, is attended by simultaneous expansions of Deity functional-revelation within the then existing and previously organized units of all creation. This new invasion of the administrative work of the universes and their component units may not always appear to be executed exactly in accordance with the technique herewith outlined because it is the practice to send forth advance groups of administrators to prepare the way for the subsequent and successive eras of new administrative overcontrol. Even God the Ultimate foreshadows his transcendental overcontrol of the universes during the later stages of a local universe settled in light and life.

(642.6) 56:7.6 It is a fact that, as the creations of time and space are progressively settled in evolutionary status, there is observed a new and fuller functioning of God the Supreme concomitant with a corresponding withdrawing of the first three manifestations of God the Sevenfold. If and when the grand universe becomes settled in light and life, what then will be the future function of the Creator-Creative manifestations of God the Sevenfold if God the Supreme assumes direct control of these creations of time and space? Are these organizers and pioneers of the time-space universes to be liberated for similar activities in outer space? We do not know, but we speculate much concerning these and related matters.

(643.1) 56:7.7 As the frontiers of experiential Deity are extended out into the domains of the Unqualified Absolute, we envision the activity of God the Sevenfold during the earlier evolutionary epochs of these creations of the future. We are not all in agreement respecting the future status of the Ancients of Days and the superuniverse Master Spirits. Neither do we know whether or not the Supreme Being will therein function as in the seven superuniverses. But we all conjecture that the Michaels, the Creator Sons, are destined to function in these outer universes. Some hold that the future ages will witness some closer form of union between the associated Creator Sons and Divine Ministers; it is even possible that such a creator union might eventuate in some new expression of associate-creator identity of an ultimate nature. But we really know nothing about these possibilities of the unrevealed future.

(643.2) 56:7.8 We do know, however, that in the universes of time and space, God the Sevenfold provides a progressive approach to the Universal Father, and that this evolutionary approach is experientially unified in God the Supreme. We might conjecture that such a plan must prevail in the outer universes; on the other hand,the new orders of beings that may sometime inhabit these universes may be able to approach Deity on ultimate levels and by absonite techniques. In short, we have not the slightest concept of what technique of deity approach may become operative in the future universes of outer space. *

(643.3) 56:7.9 Nevertheless, we deem that the perfected superuniverses will in some way become a part of the Paradise-ascension careers of those beings who may inhabit these outer creations. It is quite possible that in that future age we may witness outer-spacers approaching Havona through the seven superuniverses, administered by God the Supreme with or without the collaboration of the Seven Master Spirits.

Thank you Alina,What would you think if I were to extend my question beyond an individual world that is settled in light and life to a local universe, a super universe or better yet, the entire grand universe?Could a grand universe, settled in light and life have exhausted all possible experience?

Even on Paradise you will be growing through experience. We will always be finite beings no matter what. So we will always be growing through experience, even after we have found the Universal Father on paradise. Our journey will just be beginning! And the quest for the mother will pick up steam as we venture back out into the universes. There is never going to be a point it in the future of eternity where you are going to say to yourself "I think I have finished growing from experience and I have experienced it all". Also beings don't have to be finite to experience, experiential reality. After the Supreme is completed there is going to be adventure of the Ultimate.

(1280.6) 117:2.6 There will come an end sometime to the growth of the Supreme; his status will achieve completion (in the energy-spirit sense). This termination of the evolution of the Supreme will also witness the ending of creature evolution as a part of Supremacy. What kind of growth may characterize the universes of outer space, we do not know. But we are very sure that it will be something very different from anything that has been seen in the present age of the evolution of the seven superuniverses. It will undoubtedly be the function of the evolutionary citizens of the grand universe to compensate the outer-spacers for this deprivation of the growth of Supremacy.(1280.7) 117:2.7 As existent upon the consummation of the present universe age, the Supreme Being will function as an experiential sovereign in the grand universe. Outer-spacers — citizens of the next universe age — will have a postsuperuniverse growth potential, a capacity for evolutionary attainment presupposing the sovereignty of the Almighty Supreme, hence excluding creature participation in the power-personality synthesis of the present universe age.

(1294.10) 118:0.10 Creative growth is unending but ever satisfying, endless in extent but always punctuated by those personality-satisfying moments of transient goal attainment which serve so effectively as the mobilization preludes to new adventures in cosmic growth, universe exploration, and Deity attainment.

Edited by -Scott-, 20 March 2013 - 06:30 PM.

If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

Interests:Studying the cosmotheosophy (the cosmology, theology, and philosophy) taught by the Urantia Book.

Posted 20 March 2013 - 06:52 PM

Nelson askes: Could a grand universe, settled in light and life have exhausted all possible experience?

At this point, my answer is: no.

Why?

Simply because: accepting that experience (itself) is limited currently results with me considering God' ability lovingly to create infinite meaningful, valuable, and insightful experiences of beauty, truth, and goodness for me to enjoy with God and with others - as limited.

However

I do accept that the Grand Universe will be one day settled in light and life - and that will mark the end of that specific stage (but not all) of Supreme development.

Here's another quote about the achievement of personal light and life. However, the ascending mortal's achievement of personal light and life is not supreme as are the Master Michaels who are masters of both de-scension and ascension, the full monte.

p1458:6 132:2.9 By the time of the attainment of Paradise the ascending mortal's capacity for identifying the self with true spirit values has become so enlarged as to result in the attainment of the perfection of the possession of the light of life. Such a perfected spirit personality becomes so wholly, divinely, and spiritually unified with the positive and supreme qualities of goodness, beauty, and truth that there remains no possibility that such a righteous spirit would cast any negative shadow of potential evil when exposed to the searching luminosity of the divine light of the infinite Rulers of Paradise. In all such spirit personalities, goodness is no longer partial, contrastive, and comparative; it has become divinely complete and spiritually replete; it approaches the purity and perfection of the Supreme.

Reading through all of the references I see a definite distinction between "growth" and "experience".
The latter can potentially become exhausted.
Is it not true that the centeral universe and it's inhabitants, even Paradise had to grow beyond their self contained perfection in order to cope with finite creation? It can be argued that this was not experience but certainly it was growth.
Malvorian for example - came out to greet Grandfanda.
A new being that came into existance? or a perfected being that had to grow beyond a perfected state?
Was this experiental growth? Does experience have meaning for perfected beings?

Life often gives us our greatest gifts brilliantly disguised as our worst nightmares.

Reading through all of the references I see a definite distinction between "growth" and "experience".The latter can potentially become exhausted.Is it not true that the centeral universe and it's inhabitants, even Paradise had to grow beyond their self contained perfection in order to cope with finite creation? It can be argued that this was not experience but certainly it was growth.Malvorian for example - came out to greet Grandfanda.A new being that came into existance? or a perfected being that had to grow beyond a perfected state?Was this experiental growth? Does experience have meaning for perfected beings?

Of course, the evolutionary experience is to perfect the imperfect beings, but spiritual beings Havoners and Paradise are already perfect. So mortals not be perfect, but improved. For Havoners, we are the adventurers of time and space and like to hear our stories. (this is a quote)

(152.2) 14:0.2This is the one and only settled, perfect, and established aggregation of worlds. This is a wholly created and perfect universe; it is not an evolutionary development. This is the eternal core of perfection, about which swirls that endless procession of universes which constitute the tremendous evolutionary experiment, the audacious adventure of the Creator Sons of God, who aspire to duplicate in time and to reproduce in space the pattern universe, the ideal of divine completeness, supreme finality, ultimate reality, and eternal perfection.

Interests:Studying the cosmotheosophy (the cosmology, theology, and philosophy) taught by the Urantia Book.

Posted 21 March 2013 - 12:13 PM

As I know it, experience in general is involvement with situations happening. I experience living a human lifetime on Urantia. I experience various interactions with things, and relationships with beings. etc... those situations are happening, and I experience them because I am involved with them. When I am not invokved with a situation happening, then I am not experiencing that happening situation.

My relationship with God is a situation happening with which I am involved. My relationship with God had a beginning, but may not (and I am working to ensure that relationship does not) have an ending. Although the finite references situations that have both beginnings and endings, the finite also includes such situations that had beginnings but may not have endings (0:1.11). Therefore, my relationship with God is a finite experience, which can be said to continue perpetually forward.

If settling the Grand Universe in light and life means the exhaustion of all finite experience - then that suggests that the experience of my relationship with God (which is finite - albeit open ended) could be exhausted.

Absonite, not deplete the Grand Universe reflexivity in the Age of Light and Life.We will continue on the path upward evolutionary experiences.To fully use the potential is still a long time ...Only in that distant time when all universes will exhaust all possible potential.

and..

...when all creatures attain the final level of finite existence, and after total universe development makes possible their attainment of God the Supreme as an actual divinity presence, then, inherent in the fact of such contact, is contact with total experience. The finite of time contains within itself the seeds of eternity; and we are taught that, when the fullness of evolution witnesses the exhaustion of the capacity for cosmic growth, the total finite will embark upon the absonite phases of the eternal career in quest of the Father as Ultimate. 117.5.14

I suppose the question is: If we never stop experiencing, will we ever comprehend the eternal or the infinite?

Does this quote answer that question?

106:7.5 No matter how much you may grow in Father comprehension, your mind will always be staggered by the unrevealed Infinity of the Father-I AM, the unexplored vastness of which will always remain unfathomable and incomprehensible throughout all the cycles of eternity. No matter how much of God you may attain, there will always remain much more of him, the existence of which you will not even suspect. And we believe that this is just as true on transcendental levels as it is in the domains of finite existence. The quest for God is endless!

Interests:Studying the cosmotheosophy (the cosmology, theology, and philosophy) taught by the Urantia Book.

Posted 21 March 2013 - 04:05 PM

The way the UB uses the word comprehend is very different than how I (and nearly everyone I know) uses that term. The implication with how the UB repeatedly talks about us being unable to comprehend various things, beings, situations, and processes seems to me to be about something more than merely mentally grasping explanations for, and getting the gist of, how stuff works. Instead, the way the Revelators use the word comprehend implies some kind of epic encapsulation for a topic that only can be achieved from using a vantage native to beings of specific cosmic levels relevant for a topic.

i.e. that which is eternal is that which has neither start (beginning) nor finish (ending). In my everyday use of this language, accepting that definition right there is enough for accurately saying that I comprehend what eternal-eternity-eternality is - (that which eternal-eternity-eternality means). But such everyday use of that term is not what the Revelators seem to me to mean when they use the word. They seem to me to mean grokking (epically encapsulating on a relevant level of being) eternal-eternity-eternality - which only really can be accomplished by eternal beings!

So I basically have all but completely stopped using the term comprehend when talking about certain UB teachings, given that what I mean by the word is so different than what the Revelators mean by the term.

In light of that, my answer to your question, Nelson is exactly what Bonita just pointed out: God, The I AM, (and associated issues like infinity and eternality) is always going to remain incomprehensible - according to that very special way the Revelators use the term comprehend (and it's inverse: incomprehensible).

But we can get a certain kind of basic mental gist for successfully thinking about (and accurately discussing) various topics within the universe frame, such that they colloquially "make sense".

Then the question becomes: As we are on an endless quest to comprehend infinity/eternity - God the Father I AM - and we will never fully comprehend either, who in your imagination can?
Possibly God the Supreme - when fully realized - and complete, the experiental Trinity?

Life often gives us our greatest gifts brilliantly disguised as our worst nightmares.

Nelson - some text on our joint destiny with The Supreme. I think that our Finaliter adventure will be a completely unique "experience" for us and God. The Father descends to experience the ascension of we created ones unto the cocreated fusion of two into the potential of one. But that creative and experiential process results in the completed experiential Supreme which will be the face/hand/voice of God to come in cocreation experience with the Corps of Finality in that time to come and in that place now being prepared for that experiential adventure to come. So, Father has also embarked on an eternal experiential destiny of His own through this process in play here in this time and space place. There is text speculation as to who all might journey out in this mighty host or in service to us once the superuniverses are settled in L&L. God has a complex and interesting relationship with Himself as well as all others. I am blessed to have others here who can diagram these complexities as I am unable to fathom the differentiations of the I Am.

(1239.4) 112:7.15 The present known destiny of surviving mortals is the Paradise Corps of the Finality; this is also the goal of destiny for all Thought Adjusters who become joined in eternal union with their mortal companions. At present the Paradise finaliters are working throughout the grand universe in many undertakings, but we all conjecture that they will have other and even more supernal tasks to perform in the distant future after the seven superuniverses have become settled in light and life, and when the finite God has finally emerged from the mystery which now surrounds this Supreme Deity.

(1239.5) 112:7.16 You have been instructed to a certain extent about the organization and personnel of the central universe, the superuniverses, and the local universes; you have been told something about the character and origin of some of the various personalities who now rule these far-flung creations. You have also been informed that there are in process of organization vast galaxies of universes far out beyond the periphery of the grand universe, in the first outer space level. It has also been intimated in the course of these narratives that the Supreme Being is to disclose his unrevealed tertiary function in these now uncharted regions of outer space; and you have also been told that the finaliters of the Paradise corps are the experiential children of the Supreme.

(1239.6) 112:7.17 We believe that the mortals of Adjuster fusion, together with their finaliter associates, are destined to function in some manner in the administration of the universes of the first outer space level. We have not the slightest doubt that in due time these enormous galaxies will become inhabited universes. And we are equally convinced that among the administrators thereof will be found the Paradise finaliters whose natures are the cosmic consequence of the blending of creature and Creator.

(1239.7) 112:7.18 What an adventure! What a romance! A gigantic creation to be administered by the children of the Supreme, these personalized and humanized Adjusters, these Adjusterized and eternalized mortals, these mysterious combinations and eternal associations of the highest known manifestation of the essence of the First Source and Center and the lowest form of intelligent life capable of comprehending and attaining the Universal Father. We conceive that such amalgamated beings, such partnerships of Creator and creature, will become superb rulers, matchless administrators, and understanding and sympathetic directors of any and all forms of intelligent life which may come into existence throughout these future universes of the first outer space level.

(1240.1) 112:7.19 True it is, you mortals are of earthly, animal origin; your frame is indeed dust. But if you actually will, if you really desire, surely the heritage of the ages is yours, and you shall someday serve throughout the universes in your true characters — children of the Supreme God of experience and divine sons of the Paradise Father of all personalities.

From the sons of Father to the children of the Supreme. I think that's a promotion?

The way the UB uses the word comprehend is very different than how I (and nearly everyone I know) uses that term. The implication with how the UB repeatedly talks about us being unable to comprehend various things, beings, situations, and processes seems to me to be about something more than merely mentally grasping explanations for, and getting the gist of, how stuff works. Instead, the way the Revelators use the word comprehend implies some kind of epic encapsulation for a topic that only can be achieved from using a vantage native to beings of specific cosmic levels relevant for a topic.

i.e. that which is eternal is that which has neither start (beginning) nor finish (ending). In my everyday use of this language, accepting that definition right there is enough for accurately saying that I comprehend what eternal-eternity-eternality is - (that which eternal-eternity-eternality means). But such everyday use of that term is not what the Revelators seem to me to mean when they use the word. They seem to me to mean grokking (epically encapsulating on a relevant level of being) eternal-eternity-eternality - which only really can be accomplished by eternal beings!

So I basically have all but completely stopped using the term comprehend when talking about certain UB teachings, given that what I mean by the word is so different than what the Revelators mean by the term.

In light of that, my answer to your question, Nelson is exactly what Bonita just pointed out: God, The I AM, (and associated issues like infinity and eternality) is always going to remain incomprehensible - according to that very special way the Revelators use the term comprehend (and it's inverse: incomprehensible).

But we can get a certain kind of basic mental gist for successfully thinking about (and accurately discussing) various topics within the universe frame, such that they colloquially "make sense".

True, the word comprehend. has a deeper meaning in the UB. not as commonly used.I use it from that perspective. It would be something like as of a small branch that we put into the land. born a new plant...

Comprehend is, for example, take a teaching and then, ensure that penetrate our mind until identify with it, until it hits deeper levels of consciousness compared to what we had before.