theboozler,I will second Norma's thought about baking one of these pies in a high temp ceramic cooker. With the addition of molasses in this dough it likes to get real brown on you....but ya never know. A shorter,hot bake would give some really nice oven spring from this dough I'll bet...give it a go boozler. Good luck!Bob

Norma pretty much answered all of your original questions. In my case, I was making small experimental MM clone pizzas that were smaller than what Norma was making, and I used my food processor because of the smaller amount of dough. I long ago gave up windowpaning dough so I did not do so with my MM clone doughs. I tried letting the dough get a short fermentation at room temperature before freezing the dough, but I mostly went directly to the freezer with my MM clone doughs. I subsequently read an article that Norma found, at http://www.pmqmag-digital.com/pmqmag/201209#pg16, that said that it was not necessary to let the dough sit at room temperature before freezing, do you can go directly from the mixer bowl to the freezer (after coating the dough balls with a bit of oil). It is possible to defrost the dough at room temperature, as Norma noted, but usually I defrosted the frozen MM clone dough balls overnight in the refrigerator compartment of my home refrigerator. I also tried two nights in the refrigerator and that worked well but I wouldn't go beyond two days. As for the baking temperature, I would use around 500 degrees F. The MM clone doughs contain a lot of molasses and if you bake the pizzas at too high an oven temperature, the bottom crust can brown excessively and maybe even burn, as Chicago Bob has already noted.

Next time you should try the MM clone formulations as given and follow the recommended procedures. The changes you made, even if well intentioned, are likely to produce different results because you increased the amount of the yeast, when it should have been lowered for ADY (see more on this below), and because you let the dough double before freezing. Sometimes these types of changes will work but Norma and I were trying to do everything as closely to the MM ways as possible.

ADY can be used instead of IDY but you need about 33% more ADY than IDY by weight. Also, you should rehydrate the ADY in a small amount of the formula water at around 105 degrees F for about 10 minutes before adding the rehydrated ADY to the rest of the formula water, which should be on the cool side.

ADY can be used instead of IDY but you need about 25% less ADY than IDY by weight. Also, you should rehydrate the ADY in a small amount of the formula water at around 105 degrees F for about 10 minutes before adding the rehydrated ADY to the rest of the formula water, which should be on the cool side.

Thank you for the quick replies everyone.

I used about 25% to 50% more ADY by weight then IDY. My reasoning was that I read in a few places, mostly over at thefreshloaf.com, that when making this substitution you needed to add about 25%. Perhaps that advice was for volume not by weight? Also I guesstimated I added up to 50% more because measuring 4.725 grams of yeast with a scale with a resolution of 1 gram/ accuracy of +-1 gram is kinda tough! Anyway, next time I'll decrease the yeast instead, or I'll check a different grocery store for IDY. My usual store was all out.

I'm sorry. I reacted too hastily on the yeast conversion. You should use more of the ADY but by about a third. I have corrected my last post on this. So long as you use the proper conversion, there should be no need to go out and buy some IDY.

I'll check a different grocery store for IDY. My usual store was all out.

theboozler,

I forgot to mention that supermarkets rarely sell IDY under the designation instant dry yeast. Fleischmann's sells one of their forms of instant dry yeast under the name RapidRise. The dry yeast sold for breadmaking machines is also instant dry yeast. Most of our members who make a lot of pizzas buy their yeast (IDY or ADY) in one-pound packages. There are many places online where the one-pound packages of yeast can be purchased. The big box stores like Sam's and Costco also sell the large packages.

I forgot to mention that supermarkets rarely sell IDY under the designation instant dry yeast. Fleischmann's sells one of their forms of instant dry yeast under the name RapidRise. The dry yeast sold for breadmaking machines is also instant dry yeast. Most of our members who make a lot of pizzas buy their yeast (IDY or ADY) in one-pound packages. There are many places online where the one-pound packages of yeast can be purchased. The big box stores like Sam's and Costco also sell the large packages.

Peter

Great thanks, Ill have to remember to shop for yeast at our next costco trip.Yeah Kroger up the road only had the small jars of Fleischmann's ADY in stock when I went by, I did look for RapidRise and bread machine yeast but no luck. This particular location's shelves are consistently under stocked .

Great thanks, Ill have to remember to shop for yeast at our next costco trip.Yeah Kroger up the road only had the small jars of Fleischmann's ADY in stock when I went by, I did look for RapidRise and bread machine yeast but no luck. This particular location's shelves are consistently under stocked .

Sometimes stores will have these items located separately in different isles....

Thank you very much to everyone who took part in creating this dough! I cooked up my two dough balls over the weekend and they were quite tasty. I apologize for not taking pictures, we were very hungry and couldn't wait!

I'd say the dough was similar to a MM dough but certainly not the same. Compared to MM they were too chewy and the crumb was more dense, also the flavor seemed a bit bland for MM. I'm going to try again with a higher protein content. I believe 14.2% protein content was the target stated earlier in the thread. Also, I'll skip over the initial rise before freezing.

Overall I was very happy with the pizza and we ate well, but I think I can do better.

Overall I was very happy with the pizza and we ate well, but I think I can do better.

How long will this dough keep in the freezer?

theboozler,

There will always be differences between a pizza prepared and baked in a commercial setting as opposed to a home setting. There are even differences in the different MM locations, even though the dough balls should be about the same at all of the MM locations and the workers should be using the same corporate manual.

As far as freezing the MM clone dough balls is concerned, I would not go beyond two weeks, to be on the safe side. But, that is up to you. If you want to experiment going beyond two weeks, you may be able to define the outer limits in your particular freezer compartment.

Florida9 became a member of the forum on December 22, 2012 and last visited the forum earlier this month on January 2 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=21904). I don't know that anyone could have read through this entire thread in that period of time and lived to tell about it or without being put in a quiet home somewhere mumbling something about MM#7, fifteen brands of molasses, hydration bake tests, carpet samples, and Chicago Bob (who also hails from Chicago-land). .

Florida9 became a member of the forum on December 22, 2012 and last visited the forum earlier this month on January 2 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=21904). I don't know that anyone could have read through this entire thread in that period of time and lived to tell about it or without being put in a quiet home somewhere mumbling something about MM#7, fifteen brands of molasses, hydration bake tests, carpet samples, and Chicago Bob (who also hails from Chicago-land). .

Peter

Peter,

I do wonder if Florida9 did get his formulation from this thread somewhere though. Maybe he had information from Chicago Bob.

Thanks to this post, I have been making MM clones for the past couple of months. Although it has been years since I've been to a MM, this dough is really good. Thank you all for helping with this clone.

I thought I might be able to give one contribution. (If it has been mentioned somewhere and I missed it, I apologize). The last time I tried my MM clone, I used the paddle attachment of my KA mixer just to incorporate the ingredients. I then used the "stretch and fold" method that Peter Reinhart uses. 4x with 5 minutes between them. Then I put it in the fridge for 2 days. This dough came out extremely fluffy with great oven bounce. It was the best of the bunch that I have done.

Thanks to this post, I have been making MM clones for the past couple of months. Although it has been years since I've been to a MM, this dough is really good. Thank you all for helping with this clone.

I thought I might be able to give one contribution. (If it has been mentioned somewhere and I missed it, I apologize). The last time I tried my MM clone, I used the paddle attachment of my KA mixer just to incorporate the ingredients. I then used the "stretch and fold" method that Peter Reinhart uses. 4x with 5 minutes between them. Then I put it in the fridge for 2 days. This dough came out extremely fluffy with great oven bounce. It was the best of the bunch that I have done.

Jason,

I am glad to hear you can make clone MM pizzas now.

I don't think your contribution has been tried before with a "stretch and fold".

Has anyone tried making an MM clone using the Blackstone oven yet? I am curious what stone temps you used. I tried it on Saturday and my lower stone was about 800 deg F. Way too hot!! I knew it at the time, but I tried anyways. The crust browned too fast and left the inside raw. I have been successful at oven temp of 500 with a stone. But I'd like to dial it in with my Blackstone. Thank you!!

I need a little help from the experts. I tried the MM clone dough on my Blackstone oven tonight. I got really close to the results that I wanted, but I need a little advice. Here is my recipe & procedure:

- Whisk the oil, water, and molasses together in the bowl of a stand up mixer.- In a medium bowl, add the yeast and salt on each side of the weighed flour. - Dump the mixture of flour, salt, and yeast into the mixture. - With paddle attachment mix on lowest speed. Use a metal spoon or dough scraper to get any extra flour that might stick to the edges of the mixing bowl mixed into the ingredients well.- When all flour is absorbed, perform 4x “Stretch and Folds” with 5 mins between each- Stretch the dough tightly into a ball and pinch the bottom.- Roll the dough ball in cornmeal or lightly oil and put into a plastic container. - Put the dough ball into fridge for 2 days ferment. - Put dough out at room temperature for 30-60 minutes- With a little flour, stretch the dough to about 14" and top.

I preheated my BS oven to a lower stone temp of 650 deg F and an upper stone temp of about 730 deg F. I baked it for just over 4 minutes. I'm sorry I don't have pictures, but the bottom got a little burnt and the middle top was slightly raw. I felt like I couldn't leave it on any longer without burning too much.

My question is...how do I get the middle to cook all the way through without burning the crust? The middle of the crust may have been able to be a little thinner when stretching the dough. The other thing I was thinking is that I need to increase the hydration when using the hotter oven. I have gotten this recipe to work great with a 500 deg F home oven. The other thought would be to reduce the temperature of my BS oven, but I am really hoping to use about 650 deg lower stone. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!!

I really don't know, but think you need a lower bake temperature in your BS to make a MM pizza. With all of the molasses that is in a MM dough I could understand how the bottom of the crust would want to become burnt at the temperature you are using. I can also understand how the middle top could be partly raw. The crust is thicker on a MM pizza, so I think that is why a lower bake temperature also might be needed to fully bake the rim. I have not tried a MM pizza in my BS, but am fiddling around with different baked temperatures for different pizzas in my BS.

Maybe if you still want to try the higher baked temperature you are using you could put a screen or something else under the bottom of the pizza after the bottom browns enough. I did that before in my one bbq grill mod when the bottom wanted to burn too fast.

If you could bake a good MM pizza in your home oven, you should be able to also bake one in your BS is you play around enough.

I agree with Norma's assessment. The MM dough has a lot of sugars in the dough because of the large amount of molasses. High-sugar doughs do not do especially well on pizza stones at high temperatures. The bottom of the pizza will usually burn and the top of the pizza will be underbaked in parts if you pull the pizza once the bottom crust turns brown. There is no way of maintaining the character of an MM crust if you lower the amount of molasses. Substituting another type of sweetener will not solve that problem either. Using a screen as Norma mentioned might help but there is no way to predict how that will work in the BlackStone unit. You might start with lower temperatures and work your way up from there until you are satisfied, if that is to be. One of the biggest lessons you will learn from making different types of pizzas is the need to achieve the proper relationship of the dough formulation to the type of oven and its operating temperatures.