My family moved out of California back in 1962, moved to Oregon. In the late '60's the hippies moved to Oregon and Washington to the old logging camps to set up communes and to beg at the universities. When I enlisted in 1969, I left Albany, Oregon and never looked back. Frankly, I am amazed he could even BUY a handgun in Oregon anymore. Eugene is the hippie central of the universe, if you've never been there, it is Haight Asbury 1966 frozen in time. I must admit, it sure takes guts to live in Oregon, especially Eugene, and act like an American. I salute his moxie.

The tube struck again. Lol. I watched that and one vid lead to another and I've watched lots of them now. There's one that a few people were doing open carry trash clean up and because one of them was filming the police they stopped and had to talk to him. It was above board, though now it seems they get bothered when people video tape them. Some of the camera people do it to get a rise out of the LEOs and may be antagonistic though some want to show that some LEOs are acting like Nazis about things. It's a two edged sword. Not all LEOs are "evil" and not all camera holders are smart.

See the vid about Livermore CA. police trying to charge two guys, who open carried, with disorderly conduct. Then charges were dismissed against them, then the police brought charges of disorderly conduct against more of their buddies. From what I can understand, in the end the charges were dropped. The reason? Some idiot got scared to see some guys toting guns openly, in holsters I might add. There was even someone that stated, people getting scared of peaceful citizens openly carrying should NOT result in disorderly conduct charges for people who open carry.

I watched more vids about a lot of things in the same vein. How some woman from Australia wants to ban Semi-Auto handguns. Then they will "take it in stages" to eliminate more guns. The woman was not well informed about firearms of any kind so when you have a "semi-auto" firearm, you pull the trigger and "several bullets" come out. She said it. Idiots abound and if most have their way, they won't ever "be safe". First firearms, then bows, then knives, then sticks and so on.

Just made me want to write her and ask her if all firearms disappeared from the planet like they never existed, wouldn't a criminal with a baseball bat be as equally destructive to her person? I just don't know where and when, if at all, the stupidity will end. We all know that drunk drivers kill people and yet these idiots have not banned cars. We know that a firearm is a tool and a weapon is not it's only use. A pencil is a tool, though you can use it to harm people, so why don't these "brain-dead, jump on the bandwagon of fad" idiots ever realize though some random online test states they have an IQ up there with Einstein that they are in fact as dumb as a bucket of broken glass? Oh wait. Broken glass can be useful. My apologies to the glass.

"Steal from me and you are automatically enrolled in my weight gain program. Lots of servings of lead to meet your needs."

"It is not death that a man should fear, but he should fear never beginning to live." Marcus Aurelius

My family moved out of California back in 1962, moved to Oregon. In the late '60's the hippies moved to Oregon and Washington to the old logging camps to set up communes and to beg at the universities. When I enlisted in 1969, I left Albany, Oregon and never looked back. Frankly, I am amazed he could even BUY a handgun in Oregon anymore. Eugene is the hippie central of the universe, if you've never been there, it is Haight Asbury 1966 frozen in time. I must admit, it sure takes guts to live in Oregon, especially Eugene, and act like an American. I salute his moxie.

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Eastern Oregon is a whole different world.

"The only difference between a tax man and a taxidermist is that the taxidermist leaves the skin."

I agree with Quigley_Sharps if most of the Willamette Valley didn't exist Oregon would and is a great place to live. Just try and stay out of the valley. Everybody with a brain needs to vote, it's the only way we have a chance at beating the valley dwellers. No offence to the smart ones in the valley.

Good for him, if your state allows open carry then by all means do it, if this would have been Arizona the cops probably never would have stopped him. If we do not embrace our rights we will find they no longer exist.

"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws." - Ayn Rand

My Mileage Does Vary - MM

How can you be tried by your peers when 90% of the people are not your peers. - MM

Good for him, if your state allows open carry then by all means do it, if this would have been Arizona the cops probably never would have stopped him. If we do not embrace our rights we will find they no longer exist.

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This is EXACTLY what most of thought here in the PRK. I belong to huge gun rights forum for our state, many of our members were open carrying and recording the videos for Youtube. We begged and pleaded with them to please stop, many of knew that the videos were being used against us in the state legislature instead of helping us.

Chiefs of police and sheriffs were using the videos to demonstrate the dangers to LEOs as it pertained to open carry. The hysteria only increased when a Calgunner(s) walked into a mall and all were open carrying and recorded the incident with LEOs.

Again, we were attempting to encourage our members to stop feeding the opposition ammunition to take away our legal right to open carry, the feuding and arguments continued and "Open Carriers" continued to go to community events, shopping centers and malls with video and continued confrontational behavior.

In the end, we lost the right to open carry, effective Jan 14, 2012 and many in our community believe it was due to the "In your Face" aggressive behavior of our members and "Open Carriers" who did not realize the long term ramifications. While I look at open carry as a display of my once legal rights, there is a way to do it without making ourselves look like a threat to the public and LEOs.

Just my .02 cents from a guy who just lost his legal right to open carry.

This is EXACTLY what most of thought here in the PRK. I belong to huge gun rights forum for our state, many of our members were open carrying and recording the videos for Youtube. We begged and pleaded with them to please stop, many of knew that the videos were being used against us in the state legislature instead of helping us.

Chiefs of police and sheriffs were using the videos to demonstrate the dangers to LEOs as it pertained to open carry. The hysteria only increased when a Calgunner(s) walked into a mall and all were open carrying and recorded the incident with LEOs.

Again, we were attempting to encourage our members to stop feeding the opposition ammunition to take away our legal right to open carry, the feuding and arguments continued and "Open Carriers" continued to go to community events, shopping centers and malls with video and continued confrontational behavior.

In the end, we lost the right to open carry, effective Jan 14, 2012 and many in our community believe it was due to the "In your Face" aggressive behavior of our members and "Open Carriers" who did not realize the long term ramifications. While I look at open carry as a display of my once legal rights, there is a way to do it without making ourselves look like a threat to the public and LEOs.

Just my .02 cents from a guy who just lost his legal right to open carry.

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Yeah...the strategy is to not use your rights or somebody will take them away. Pure BS and a coward's way of thinking.

Let me ask...if you are afraid to use a right...does that right really even exist?

You didn't "lose" the right to open carry because some people exercised it, you lost the right because the people of California overall stupidly continue to elect people who are anti-constitution.

You will never get those rights back by hiding under the bed...only by making those who would deprive you of them pay and replace them with those who truly believe in the things that once made this nation great.

I grew up in California...and remember a time when we had all the rights of people in other states...and exercised them. I got my first gun I could call mine when I was 12 years old (well, not counting my Daisy BB gun...I think I got it at 7 or 8). When I saw the way the state was headed and realized that the majority of the idiots were going to let it happen, I got the hell out and refuse to go back.

Yeah...the strategy is to not use your rights or somebody will take them away. Pure BS and a coward's way of thinking.

Let me ask...if you are afraid to use a right...does that right really even exist?

You didn't "lose" the right to open carry because some people exercised it, you lost the right because the people of California overall stupidly continue to elect people who are anti-constitution.

You will never get those rights back by hiding under the bed...only by making those who would deprive you of them pay and replace them with those who truly believe in the things that once made this nation great.

I grew up in California...and remember a time when we had all the rights of people in other states...and exercised them. I got my first gun I could call mine when I was 12 years old (well, not counting my Daisy BB gun...I think I got it at 7 or 8). When I saw the way the state was headed and realized that the majority of the idiots were going to let it happen, I got the hell out and refuse to go back.

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First of all, I'd watch the way you speak to people.

The ACTUAL technique we suggested was to EDUCATE the public WHILE open carrying. Passing out pamphlets and fliers while being well dressed and NON-CONFRONTATIONAL. Being dressed like a tactical mall-ninja, open carrying and then being a raging a-hole to LEOS on video DOES NOTHING to help our movement. Educating the public and being civil showed people how it should be done.

Secondly, we DID lose the right to open carry because of people who thought recording the confrontation and being a belligerent A-hole to LEOS and posting it on Youtube, those same people thought it was a good thing.

It sure seems you find it easy to criticize and name call when you decided to turn tail and run as opposed to standing your ground and fighting like we have been doing. LMAO, so you call me a coward as I actively fight and defend our rights here and as you put it, "When I saw the way the state was headed and realized that the majority of the idiots were going to let it happen, I got the hell out and refuse to go back"

Yes, I left when I enlisted, BUT, on a return trip from Canada, my buddy had a sister in Eugene, this would be 1980, and we stopped in. What a sad, sad POS of a town. Both of us were vets so it was even more sickening. Ate lunch and left, pronto. It is too bad our universities and colleges have become training camps for hippies and socialists. Education must mean something else, all together (education must mean something else) [ala airplane].

No need for name calling, we are all on the same side here I would believe.

There is a proper way to do things, and while being respectful to LEOs, everyone needs to state their rights, and if necessary provide a copy of state laws. Being articulate, calm, and respectful while open carrying gives no ammo to those who would take those rights away. While concealed carry is the more tactful/strategic way to carry as the perps do not know, open carry is more of a political statement. If we had open carry here in Texas you can bet your ass I would do it occasionally, as I prefer concealed carry.

The ACTUAL technique we suggested was to EDUCATE the public WHILE open carrying. Passing out pamphlets and fliers while being well dressed and NON-CONFRONTATIONAL. Being dressed like a tactical mall-ninja, open carrying and then being a raging a-hole to LEOS on video DOES NOTHING to help our movement. Educating the public and being civil showed people how it should be done.

Secondly, we DID lose the right to open carry because of people who thought recording the confrontation and being a belligerent A-hole to LEOS and posting it on Youtube, those same people thought it was a good thing.

It sure seems you find it easy to criticize and name call when you decided to turn tail and run as opposed to standing your ground and fighting like we have been doing. LMAO, so you call me a coward as I actively fight and defend our rights here and as you put it, "When I saw the way the state was headed and realized that the majority of the idiots were going to let it happen, I got the hell out and refuse to go back"

There is a difference between talking the talk and walking the walk.

In the future, I would hope you could be tad bit more civil.

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Then feel free to watch it...no bother to me.

When you start blaming people who exercise a right for you "losing" it, you are going to have to expect to be called a coward....and a stupid one to boot for remaining in the political entity with more laws on the books than any other in the world.

You can resent the fact I was smart enough to leave all you want and pat yourself on the back for "fighting and defending" rights there by making sure that nobody offends those delicate souls who tend to piss their pants when the see a gun all you want..that is also no bother to me.

I am sorry that you are no longer able to protect yourself and your family with an unloaded gun because you choose to live among the idiots...now that was a right worth holding onto.

As far as being civil to one who blames people who choose to carry an unloaded weapon and confront public servants who take unconstitutional actions against those who who do so...I really see no reason to.

When you start blaming people who exercise a right for you "losing" it, you are going to have to expect to be called a coward....and a stupid one to boot for remaining in the political entity with more laws on the books than any other in the world.

You can resent the fact I was smart enough to leave all you want and pat yourself on the back for "fighting and defending" rights there by making sure that nobody offends those delicate souls who tend to piss their pants when the see a gun all you want..that is also no bother to me.

I am sorry that you are no longer able to protect yourself and your family with an unloaded gun because you choose to live among the idiots...now that was a right worth holding onto.

As far as being civil to one who blames people who choose to carry an unloaded weapon and confront public servants who take unconstitutional actions against those who who do so...I really see no reason to.

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I would hope that other real patriots take heed to what has happened in my state, "In your face, over emotional responses" while open carrying only hurt our movement. Knowing your rights as stated including but not limited to(IE Terry Stops/Terry VS Ohio)as an example and being well spoken and civil helps everyone.

We are in a media war, the antis- use the media to show us as crazy, gun toting maniacs, so when you open carry, please dont act like what the stereo type is, be professional and educate others as much as possible.

Lastly, it's pretty clear you (Paxmentis) have not read what I have posted, I dont resent the fact you left, I am actually quite pleased you left because the fight we are fighting needs dedicated patriots who will stand their ground a fight. I am not calling you a coward, all I am saying is, if eveyone had that attitude, where would we eventually go?

I dont need to open carry and I never have. Due to my employement, I am actually allowed to carry concealed wherever and whenever I want (yes, even in the PRK). Your personal attacks on me are pretty funny and quite sad at the same time. I made a logical and civil statement and you again display the textbook examples of ad hominem attacks. I would hope you could address the topic at hand.

Moderator, I would like to apologize for the direction that these posts have taken. I am asking that if Paxmentis needs to continue the attacks, I have NO problem addressing him by way of PM (private msg) this forum as I understand it, is to share knowledge, not a forum for personal attacks.

Maybe I am reading more into this, but it seems to me as another encounter with "Law Enforcement". Law Enforcement is not your friend, they do not like a balance of power, and many cities and states have passed laws making it illegal to video them doing their "thing". Read a few "Police Products" catalogs and the terms "Law Enforcement" and "Civilians" runs the gambit. The police think they are the civilian military, an occupying force, if you will. Force for law will not make persons compliant or unwillful. See 1775 a.d. Boston, MA.
True, I carry concealed because in Wyoming we have Constitutional carry.
As for the question about how I am an expert on Oregon hippie tendencies, My Aunt lived in Waldport and I ride my FXDWG out to see her about every other year. Lots of rich Kalifornians moved to the Willamette and Siskiyou bringing their Kalifornia ideas with them. My Aunt just passed so no reason to go to Oregon again.
Law Enforcement (not police or peace officers) is the problem and the constant prodding from the (SPLC) Southern Poverty Law Center (liars all) doesn't help. One pamphlet put out by the SPLC to police stated when "the suspected militia member steps out of his vehicle facing away from you, he is preparing to shoot. Be sure your pistol is in your hand as you will have only a split second to save your life". So, when the preacher turned around, the cop shot him 9 times. The preacher died. Yes, an Indiana anecdote, but as best as I could remember. It also falls in with "will police shoot us"...um, yes. As long as government continues to funnel money into the LE farms, military escalation is inevitable. Where will it end?<label for="rb_iconid_5"></label><label for="rb_iconid_5"></label>

Ok, Lets us Reason together, in a civil, and straight forward, discourse. Stating ones Opinion, and position, on an Issue is to be encouraged here. Disparaging Remarks, are NOT encouraged, and can, if egregious, cause the BADAdmistrator To descend like a Ton of Bricks. This is a place for exchange of ideas, and even strongly held opinions, But we do it as Brother/Sister Monkeys. ..... YMMV....

Bruce in alaska (BTPost) An Atheist will never be able to say, "I TOLD YOU SO"!! ....