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This message was self-deleted by its author (nadinbrzezinski) on Tue Nov 6, 2012, 02:04 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

46. yes, that's right. You are of the both sides are the same,

48. No, not quite

I am on the yes, they are radicals, yes they are extreme, but they are not the other...there is a profound difference. Nor are they evil. If you don't get how dangerous your thinking is, you should crack a history book... I recommend any modern civil war for that matter, Boston circa 1855 is a good case study too.

28. 30+ years ago, I might have agreed with Nadin. Now, though, I view the Rape-publican

Party as a bunch of fascists.

I would challenge anyone willing to continue to give the Rape-publicans a break to name even one piece of positive legislation or policy put forward by the Rape-publicans in the past 30 years. It cannot be done, because it has not happened.

39. I said evil for a reason

They are radicals, but not evil... Words matter. And I refuse to engage in other ism. It's simply not healthy.

Radicals can be tamed, evil has to be destroyed.

Other ism is really dangerous. Perhaps it's the been in a war zone and it's not nice and debriefed victims of actual, real genocide, that make me take pause at this yes...stupidity and dangerous thinking.

72. Why do you accuse people of labelling Republicans "others" as though that's a pejorative?

When they correctly label them as fascistic?

Calling them and their agenda by its correct name shouldn't be shut down - it needs to be exposed. Why do you persist in condemning anyone who accurately calls them out for their reprehensible positions as perpetuating some kind of "otherism? (whatever that means)?

92. So the policies (and even the people) are demonstrably fascist (which is evil)

but you believe that anyone who calls them out on that is crossing some kind of linguistic barrier?

That doesn't even make sense. And it smacks of censorship. Or you are deliberately constructing some kind of accusation to falsely accuse DUers of going down that route. Exposing the truth, critiquing policies - that's part of the democratic process. Accusing people who participate in that of emulating Nazi techniques is pretty unfair.

97. I am not shutting down none

You are projecting there. As to the creation of the other, there are scads of academic papers on the subject, as well as a few good books on it.. You might want to check a few out of the library and read them. I am being like as serious as a heart attack.

The language I am seeing here s very reminiscent of that used by the Guatemalan far right about the Maya before the genocide started. Nothing more "amusing" than hearing stories of that nightmare from survivors. Lets just say they were similar to Eastern Europe a few decades earlier.

So yes, I am serious as a heart attack, and the other side is doing it as well.

You want to call them on policies? I am right besides you. You want to call them heartless...ok, you start to remove their humanity, you lost me...it as to do with what happens for real.

85. Paulo Freire’s “Pedagogy of the oppressed”

Freire’s words seem almost like a forewarning:

Dehumanization of the oppressed is a distortion of being more fully human, sooner or later being less human leads the oppressed to struggle against those who made them so. In order for this struggle to have meaning, the oppressed must not, in seeking to regain their humanity, become in turn oppressors of the oppressors, but rather restorers of the humanity of both”.

10. you'd have a hard time convincing me

that Dems cheat in elections like the Rethugs do. I'm a long way from Chicago in a swing state & have seen the pattern for at least 20 years. Rethugs think "the ends justify the means"-- sorry, they are not to be trusted.

37. We have a cold civil war now

I don't think it will lead to a wide scale shooting war. But it is just as serious a division, and shutting up about it is never good. Don't worry I feel like I AM on the front lines of the cold Civil War.

I'm talking historical--25 years in one state is historical. I have never seen or heard of a reported case of Dem suppression or tampering (not even sign-stealing or vandalizing). I have seen it many times from Rethugs. Just this past weekend near here someone went through a whole neighborhood and spray painted over all the Obama yard signs, for example. This is commonplace. But I'm more worried about the evil at the upper crusty end of the Rethug party--the ones who own the machines and the media. It is clear that they WILL steal and attempt to steal elections. Now. In the present. Never mind history.

Anyone who hasn't jumped ship from the Rethugs now is either Fuxed over, lo-info, or greedy unethical rich. It's an unholy union, corrupt to the core. In my mind corruption on the scale we are seeing is evil. Check out the "Voter Integrity Project" in North Carolina--Rethuglican effort to disenroll people. Some people even received letters stating that they were dead.

We can agree to disagree on this. But you'd have to give me some concrete evidence of current Democratic party cheating to counter the extensive list of things I have seen from the R side-- to have a hope of getting me to sing Kumbaya today or any day.

The Rethug party as it is today--is ethically challenged. Dems OTOH usually do the right thing, and I'm sure sometimes they fail, but their record is far superior. It's a clear choice.

60. So Libruls should shut up

cause "they" got guns?

Somehow if civil war breaks out, I actually do think Obama and the well-armed Armed Forces WILL save me & I won't have to try to shoot anyone myself (--if you knew me you'd laugh at that idea, altho I'm pretty good with darts).

My words are my only weapon and I will always use them when appropriate. To "shhhsssh" people is like going back to the McCarthy era, if you like history. I don't believe in being silenced like that. (Or more recently look at those in media & govt who were too cowed to take a stand against the WMD snowjob). Do you want DU to be PC or do you want it to be about freedom of expression? If you can't say what it is we're up against here, where can you say it?

You can't "turn the other cheek" towards people who refuse to do that for you. And referring to their practices as evil and corrupt is not too harsh when it is clearly apparent. Anything else is agreeing to live in fear.

69. I hope you don't mean this personally

..."predictable." Snide.

I am not engaging in "Otherism" across the board. I lay the majority of the blame for the cold civil war at the feet of a few greedy rich guys & their corrupt followers, a few Christians in Name Only, a few media moguls, and a few rightwing agitators (i think we know who they are). I think it's OK to call these people evil masterminds. EVIL.

The average middle class & poor folks who have been brainwashed and scared and robbed --and still call themselves "Republicans" -- they are not the Other. They are victims.

So what would you suggest. OTHER than chilling, being silent? How did I misunderstand you? You are telling people not to use the word "evil" in connection with Rethuglicon. That seems like avoiding the truth.

83. I've read it,

& I think you need to talk to some Rethugs and other right wingers about "otherizing." I am only speaking against them in self-defense. I don't hate people but I do call them at their hateful behavior.

"Fascists are not evil." -- well I can go with calling them sick malignant psychopaths, but I don't get there's much difference.

Evildoers are evil.

This is giving me a headache--maybe we can take it up later, since we agree on the extent of the problem--but you want to argue names for it? You'll have to convince me that some hardcore Rethuglicon really cares what I call him/her. (No personal put-downs tho--that's otherizing to me).

99. No, unfortunately I see them

Doesn't mean I have to "forgive them, they know not what they do." They know very well.

Sometimes you have to try to root out evil where you see it. Predatory hateful behavior in humans is like poison ivy--it just keeps sprouting up and all you can hope to do is knock it back.

I'm looking for a better quality of human in political office. So of course I don't expect Rethuglicons to fill the bill. (Not talking about ye olde moderate Republicans--(a dying breed) --am talking the new Rethuglicons who would destroy the country before they'd compromise with Obama--and who steal elections by every means possible, in broad daylight).

26. I respect you very much...

... but I just don't agree this time. The other side (no need for quotation marks) is indeed, an unending fountain of evil. Their words say it and their actions prove it. I see no reason to think otherwise. None.

44. omg, legitimate rape, aspirin between the knees for women,

blocking jobs bills, the debt ceiling fiasco, and a list of countless other dangerous crazy fucked up in the head stuff coming from the right these last 4 years (and 8 before) do quality them as extremely evil.

What do you want? What is it you are asking of us? To forgive them? to slink in a corner and count our own sins instead of fighting theirs?

70. I'm going to trash this thread...

... before you attribute even one more of your made from whole cloth issues to me, Nadin. The condescending tone you are using toward me, is personally insulting. VERY bottom of the barrel. I'm am gravely disappointed in the way you have acted.

I'll never again see anything you post the same way and that's a shame.

88. No, it is part of it, sorry.

98. Yet you expect me to...

... to temper my words about the fucking goons who are responsible for killing people in this Nation and around the world each and every day, with impunity? I've got news for you, journalist Nadin, the civil war has been going on for many years and we're getting our asses kicked.

102. No, do as you wish

In fact, will shut this whole discussion down, since more than a few are misrepresenting why I am trying to convey. I guess debriefing genocide survivors and reading scads of academic papers on this makes my views ivory tower and I am the enemy...just trying to share, but it isn't working fella, so off to delete thread I go. And unlike you, I will delete it.

67. here's what I think he'll do

--a kind of choked-up maudlin, "spend time with the family" concession. And then he'll slink away. Tomorrow he'll be "oh well, God has something better in mind for me. And he'll confer with his buddies operating behind the scenes to figure out what that might be..."

51. I'm nervous they're using Hamilton County OH as a predictor....

when it is one of two (out of 88) counties in OH that use Hart Intercivic voting machines:

Tagg Romney's private equity firm, Solamere Capital, is invested in another private equity firm called H.I.G. Capital. A little over a year ago, H.I.G. invested heavily in Hart and took over its board.

-snip

That said, several top executives at H.I.G. are what's known as bundlers for the Romney campaign, according to a database created by USA Today using data from the Sunlight Foundation. That means they have raised tons of money for Romney. There are also three H.I.G. executives on the board of Hart InterCivic, and two of them have donated to Mitt Romney's campaign (though one gave to both Romney and President Obama in the last election cycle).

52. Why I am hoping OH will really not matter.

53. I don't know. I hope you're right, but he's so arrogant

and egotistical and power-hungry that I'm not sure that he will concede even when it's apparent that he's losing or has lost. He will probably have great difficulty grasping the fact that the great unwashed masses just don't want him, that all the billions at his command didn't work, and that he's lost to a black man.

66. What, you expect Ronmey not to concede?

68. I'll agree with you on the concession. The other stuff - No way.

I've read your posts about "other-ism" and although there is some truth to it, I think that you just don't get how evil many people in the Republican party are.

And no, I don't think that this will lead to a hot civil war. Present some recent evidence that it might and perhaps I'll consider your point of view. Otherwise, it's really just assertion on your part.

73. Indeed it can. n/t

77. American civil war, bacon's Revolt

The American Revolution

The Salvadoran Civil War, the Guatemalan Civil War, the Mexican Revolution, the wars in the Balkans, I could include a few genocides two of them in those listed wars, sorry that be three, forgot the Balkans for some strange reason. Oh I forgot the biggie in the creation of the other, the Holocaust, let's not forget the Tutsi massacres, then there are the death camps in Cambodia...and this is the short list.