Presenting Sir Stirling Moss - 2011. I don't think I'll ever see the end of this. It's fascinating how former drivers perceive Michael. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, of course but somehow I think Moss expresses his in a disrespectful manner (marked in bold below). But again, that's just MY opinion !

Asked whether he felt Schumacher would do it this year, Moss pulled no punches again as he scoffed: "No he's not. Do you mean win? No, of course he's not.

"Michael is a great driver, a seven times world champion, which does not actually mean much.

"The point is we have never really seen Michael with a number two (a team-mate) to judge him by, that we can say is comparable.

"Therefore it is very difficult for us to know just how good he is, so personally I don't think he's going to win races.

"I think coming back was a mistake.He has done a tremendous amount for motor-racing, most of all bringing Ferrari back to the top when they were doing nothing.

"But I think it's going to be very difficult for him again. He's going to be lucky to even get on the podium."

Stirling Moss! I don't know what to say about this guy! If don't like Schumi then don't talk about him! His statements about Schumi has now become like an old broken record! But it's one of the few ways he can now create headlines!

Sir Moss is perfectly right in his right of having an opinion. Poor man can't defend himself on forums. I share his opinions 100%, Schumacher makes no chance even not in 2011.

He makes good strong points in his comments and opinion. I mean, the man Schumacher never had a 'real' teammate. He only had one, because all other teams have one. Really!

The may be a little exception on this, and that's Schumacher begin period at Benetton. But still it's questionably the time he(his manager?) came up with that plan to never had a fair teammate to make him look better and give him more chance on the title, and set it in work.

He is KNOWN to never have a fair team mate. They always have been 2nd-men, the one's who had to move over or use the brake on purpose in F1. What a shame.

Therefor Moss is right to say; "We don't really know how good he REALLY is." purely on the team mate relations in his past.

We can say, well, in 2010 this was NOT the case. Well, maybe that's true.
If one compares the 2010 season of Schumacher, one should compare the 1993 Benetton season with it. Michael and Patrese. Only compared with 1993, in the Benetton team back then one must see the 1993-Patrese as the 2010-Schumacher and the 1993-Schumacher would be the 2010-Rosberg. It's comparable ...

And so long Mercedes doesn't change the team into a One-man show policy in preference for Michael, and keep on going in the line of 2010; all fair, no team-orders and stuff. Then Michael indeed could have real problems again in 2011. And he may praise the Lord on his bare knees to get even a podium.

Presenting Sir Stirling Moss - 2011. I don't think I'll ever see the end of this. It's fascinating how former drivers perceive Michael. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, of course but somehow I think Moss expresses his in a disrespectful manner (marked in bold below). But again, that's just MY opinion !

Asked whether he felt Schumacher would do it this year, Moss pulled no punches again as he scoffed: "No he's not. Do you mean win? No, of course he's not.

"Michael is a great driver, a seven times world champion, which does not actually mean much.

"The point is we have never really seen Michael with a number two (a team-mate) to judge him by, that we can say is comparable.

"Therefore it is very difficult for us to know just how good he is, so personally I don't think he's going to win races.

"I think coming back was a mistake.He has done a tremendous amount for motor-racing, most of all bringing Ferrari back to the top when they were doing nothing.

"But I think it's going to be very difficult for him again. He's going to be lucky to even get on the podium."

Sadly Moss seems to get more bitter with every year. The guy was a top driver, but really needs to get over his MS issues; perhaps taking a leaf out of John Surtees' book;

"... it is all very well these people who have all the negatives about Michael, but the fact remains that he created that relationship with the team which then related to the way the cars performed on the track and he got the job done," Surtees said. "He did a wonderful job for Ferrari and I am not so sure he won't do the same thing for Mercedes."

I know everyone is allowed to have their own opinions. But whenever I read comments from Moss, I always sense a bit of nastiness. Maybe it's just because he's always negative towards Schumacher. He never had a top team mate, but he was always able to show his abilities against his title rivals which is just as important.

I'm not even a fan of the guy, but anyone who doesn't respect his talents is a fool, and that includes past F1 drivers and champions.

Don't think it's really fair to say he never had a real teammate. Ferrari defiantely made some really stupid team order calls but Rubens is clearly not a bad driver. Massa ain't bad either and looked atleast as good as much hyped Raikkonen in the same car, atleast until his accident. What we can say for sure is that, apart from a few races in 1991 he never had a WDC teammate. If you want have that taint his legacy of course you could. On the other hand you could argue that Irvine, Massa and Barrichello were not poor drivers at all. They are all multiple GP winners and have finished P2 in the WDC standings and most of the time Schu beat them.

IMO the Jury is out on Rosberg. He clearly had the upper hand on Schu last year. If that was due to old age, long absense, bad car or just that Rosberg is much better than anyone anticipated remains to be seen. 2011 should provide some insight given that the Merc is a somewhat decent car.

Michael on official F1 website: I am confident that we can compete for podium finishes, and I am hopeful we can fight for victories at some of the races...

Waiting for Melbourne to learn what the real picture is.

___________

I can add, all is as expected in Barcelona, but that's not how we started first day of testing, and in our hopes we came full circle - from depression to current level of anticipation that we have a fighting chance. I really want to see Michael next to Vettel, one one one on the grid, first row - my dream.

Thing about MS never having a teammate is, who could he have had - and who had one at that time anyway?

Hill had DC, surely a second man, and then JV, a rookie and also not so well regarded here (erroneously perhaps)
JV had Frentzen...
Hakkinen had DC, again...
Kimi had DC, then JPM
JPM had Ralf and Ralf JPM
Alonso had Trulli (and had him kicked out when he was being beaten) then Fisi.

Now most of MS's WDCs came with Rubens as a teammate. I'm not so sure Rubens was so poor in comparison to DC, JPM, Trulli or whoever.

MS was however head and shoulders above them all, plus - and this is part of the competition - he could eke out that advantage by forming the team around him, just as Alonso did and does, Lewis et al.

And yet of course, no one in the history of the sport, not even MS himself, has been good enough to last as long as his erstwhile teammate.

Even so, for what its worth, I've always thought he's come back in the hope Rubens leaves soon enough and he can win that last remaining record, for most GPs started.

It's not Schumacher's fault that his team mates couldn't hold a candle to him. Barrichello was pretty highly regarded when he moved to Ferrari and got DEMOLISHED! Yes he had preferential treatment, but that makes little difference. They drove the same cars.

As an aside, does anyone really think that Schumacher would come back to F1 at the ripe old age of 41 without ensuring he enjoyed the same perks he had at Ferrari? The difference is he had a torrid time adjusting compared with Rosberg. and he got DEMOLISHED! They drove the same cars... they even modified the cars to Schumacher's liking with no change to the status quo.

There were a few seasons when Michael wrapped up the championship early, and Barrichello had the entire team devoted to him. Did we see Barichello suddenly appear like world beater? Nope.

Sir Moss is a bit jealous, I think. I also think that Michael isn't terribly concerned about what his detractors think. He just puts his head down and goes to work... Mercedes isn't looking too bad this year. If he won another two championships I'd love to hear what his detractors would say then. He's pure class.

Thing about MS never having a teammate is, who could he have had - and who had one at that time anyway?

Hill had DC, surely a second man, and then JV, a rookie and also not so well regarded here (erroneously perhaps)JV had Frentzen...Hakkinen had DC, again...Kimi had DC, then JPMJPM had Ralf and RalfJPMAlonso had Trulli (and had him kicked out when he was being beaten) then Fisi.

I emphasised the bolded part because that just shows the ridiculous nature of this forum. JV is not regarded by anyone because of his arrogance with the BAR project, it put alot of peoples noses out of joint (in and out of the pitlane/paddock) and while JV should share the blame for that, his lowly rating on this forum is beyond comprehension.

The point is (and this is leading to the MS teammates discussion) people have very, very short memories. From the time JV joined the F1 circus till Hakkinen retired/JV started to go backwards (end of 2001)...it was a commen perception that, while Schumacher was still the standout, Hakkinen and Villeneuve were the next two stars that could cut it with him. The 2 main drivers that had the pure speed, tenacity and bravado to put MS in his place. I remember this general perception especially during 1998-2000, while Hakkinen was fighting MS for another title and Villeneuve was working miracles with a very average BAR team and was being courted by other teams.

Now while Hakkinen still gets genuine credit for his feats, Villeneuve is often very overlooked. Maybe its the personalities of the two men and how they both went down with fans? Dunno....but MS must have been rapt when JV took himself out of the WDC equation from 1999. No doubt about it. Out of 2 genuine rivals...he only then had one to worry about.

All that said, regarding Schumacher, I believe had he partnered either Hakkinen or Villeneuve in their primes at Ferrari (or elsewhere) and beat them fairly and squarly...his reputation would be far more complete. They were the 2 standouts at that time, both had beaten MS to titles already, no one else came close. Coulthard, Barrichello etc were all a rung below.

Imagine how much harder MS's life might have been having to fight both MH and JV at once? We...as fans...truly missed out.

I emphasised the bolded part because that just shows the ridiculous nature of this forum. JV is not regarded by anyone because of his arrogance with the BAR project, it put alot of peoples noses out of joint (in and out of the pitlane/paddock) and while JV should share the blame for that, his lowly rating on this forum is beyond comprehension.

The point is (and this is leading to the MS teammates discussion) people have very, very short memories. From the time JV joined the F1 circus till Hakkinen retired/JV started to go backwards (end of 2001)...it was a commen perception that, while Schumacher was still the standout, Hakkinen and Villeneuve were the next two stars that could cut it with him. The 2 main drivers that had the pure speed, tenacity and bravado to put MS in his place. I remember this general perception especially during 1998-2000, while Hakkinen was fighting MS for another title and Villeneuve was working miracles with a very average BAR team and was being courted by other teams.

Now while Hakkinen still gets genuine credit for his feats, Villeneuve is often very overlooked. Maybe its the personalities of the two men and how they both went down with fans? Dunno....but MS must have been rapt when JV took himself out of the WDC equation from 1999. No doubt about it. Out of 2 genuine rivals...he only then had one to worry about.

All that said, regarding Schumacher, I believe had he partnered either Hakkinen or Villeneuve in their primes at Ferrari (or elsewhere) and beat them fairly and squarly...his reputation would be far more complete. They were the 2 standouts at that time, both had beaten MS to titles already, no one else came close. Coulthard, Barrichello etc were all a rung below.

"it was a commen perception that, while Schumacher was still the standout, Hakkinen and Villeneuve were the next two stars that could cut it with him."

In a panel full of pundits Jacques only got a few points from rather biased non-journalists in 1999 and 2001 and barely came 3rd in 2000, one point ahead of a rookie named Jenson Button and way, way behind Michael and Mika.

It's not Schumacher's fault that his team mates couldn't hold a candle to him. Barrichello was pretty highly regarded when he moved to Ferrari and got DEMOLISHED! Yes he had preferential treatment, but that makes little difference. They drove the same cars.

As an aside, does anyone really think that Schumacher would come back to F1 at the ripe old age of 41 without ensuring he enjoyed the same perks he had at Ferrari? The difference is he had a torrid time adjusting compared with Rosberg. and he got DEMOLISHED! They drove the same cars... they even modified the cars to Schumacher's liking with no change to the status quo.

There were a few seasons when Michael wrapped up the championship early, and Barrichello had the entire team devoted to him. Did we see Barichello suddenly appear like world beater? Nope.

Sir Moss is a bit jealous, I think. I also think that Michael isn't terribly concerned about what his detractors think. He just puts his head down and goes to work... Mercedes isn't looking too bad this year. If he won another two championships I'd love to hear what his detractors would say then. He's pure class.

Signed,

Former Schumi detractor who's seen the light.

Nice post. A little comment about the part marked in bold. They didn't modify the car to suit MSC. They just wanted to find a way to manage the weight distribution better and correct the horrendous understeer it had. This affected both drivers. So they tried a car with a longer wheelbase. Didn't make any difference to Michael coz' Rosberg still beat him. But the changes they made didn't allow Nico to start competing for wins either. In short the W01 sucked and had a very narrow setup range. The car was only partially responsible for his MSC's bad year. More to do with his 3 years off and his racing brain not waking up yet. MSC has no preference for a car with a longer or shorter wheelbase. He just wants a fast nervous car.

In a panel full of pundits Jacques only got a few points from rather biased non-journalists in 1999 and 2001 and barely came 3rd in 2000, one point ahead of a rookie named Jenson Button and way, way behind Michael and Mika.

Well I've got magazines stacked sky high at my place (collecting dust ) from F1 Racing, to Autosport...to Autocourse annuals etc where Jacques Villeneuve, from 1998 - 2001, was genuinely ranked/discussed/placed amongst the 3 best drivers in F1. From Nigel Roebuck...to Alan Henry... to Gerhard Berger...to even the likes of Matt Bishop (who generally thought JV was an arse for whatever reason...) lauding JV's performances particularly from 98-2000.

He is KNOWN to never have a fair team mate. They always have been 2nd-men, the one's who had to move over or use the brake on purpose in F1. What a shame.

Therefor Moss is right to say; "We don't really know how good he REALLY is." purely on the team mate relations in his past.

That's a good point.

Why didn't Flav chase Senna to drive the other Benetton in 94 season?

Why didn't Ferrari stick a pile of $$ in front of Hakkinen to replace Irvine?

As it turns out there were no top drivers available in early 00's (Trulli, Ralfie, Frentzen, Jacques, Panis, da Matta, de la Rosa, Salo etc surely not) aside from Raikkonen* and Alonso whom Ferrari did each sign when they were able to.

Moss shoukd keep quiet. In retrospect he carries that unfulfiled F1 career on hi shoulders: always been a #2 to Fangio he coukd never shine against the Majestro when it came to racing those silver cars. His self esteem must have suffered alot never having beaten Fangio to a WDC. So in a way he is behaving like Barrichelo. By Mosses word, We don't know how good Fangio really was because he mostly raced against Moss who never amounted to much in F1... See the irony here?
His outstanding sportscar career only reinforces that frustration that he was never an alltime great In F1.

I know everyone is allowed to have their own opinions. But whenever I read comments from Moss, I always sense a bit of nastiness. Maybe it's just because he's always negative towards Schumacher. He never had a top team mate, but he was always able to show his abilities against his title rivals which is just as important.

I'm not even a fan of the guy, but anyone who doesn't respect his talents is a fool, and that includes past F1 drivers and champions.

Moss WAS a fan of Schumacher a long time ago. In fact, he was at Monaco in 1997 and could'nt find the words to explain how a genius Schumacher was.

At the time Schumacher was a double-champion, a no one (except a few people of course, but no one said "raisonnable") could think he would smah all F1 records. Then came the 3rd, the 4th, the 5th titles and the rest, the 40th, the 50th the 51th victories and the rest.

Have you ever heard Moss speak about Fangio ? How could one imagine Moss would take it easy when a driver would surpass his beloved hero ?

I'm sure Michael loses a lot of sleep over what his critics say ;) Let's hope he has a competitive year. Having him in a fast car dicing it up with the young guns, his teammate included, can only be good for F1. We'll find out soon enough if Mercedes/MS have upped their game.

Nice post. A little comment about the part marked in bold. They didn't modify the car to suit MSC. They just wanted to find a way to manage the weight distribution better and correct the horrendous understeer it had. This affected both drivers. So they tried a car with a longer wheelbase. Didn't make any difference to Michael coz' Rosberg still beat him. But the changes they made didn't allow Nico to start competing for wins either. In short the W01 sucked and had a very narrow setup range. The car was only partially responsible for his MSC's bad year. More to do with his 3 years off and his racing brain not waking up yet. MSC has no preference for a car with a longer or shorter wheelbase. He just wants a fast nervous car.

Well, I figured that would make it a bit more paletable for those who think MS was nothing more than a lucky also-ran.

I don't try to pretend to know what effect wheelbases have on the performance characteristics of these cars, especially when we're talking about a couple cm difference. It's clear that he's no longer at his prime, and had a pretty rough time getting to grips with it all. But I still maintain that he looked at FA get beat by a rookie, KR getting beat by Massa, JB win a championship while struggling to outperform Rubens Barrichello in the second half of that season, and figured... "even at 41, I must still be at least as good as some of these guys."

Well, I figured that would make it a bit more paletable for those who think MS was nothing more than a lucky also-ran.

I don't try to pretend to know what effect wheelbases have on the performance characteristics of these cars, especially when we're talking about a couple cm difference. It's clear that he's no longer at his prime, and had a pretty rough time getting to grips with it all. But I still maintain that he looked at FA get beat by a rookie, KR getting beat by Massa, JB win a championship while struggling to outperform Rubens Barrichello in the second half of that season, and figured... "even at 41, I must still be at least as good as some of these guys."

Ha Ha ... The part in Bold .... I have a bunch of buds who've mentioned the same thing !

But seriously ... there will always be haters and who think MSC was just 'lucky'. Stirling Moss for example ;) But the haters have the right to hate. I just leave it at that !

But in this phase of his career, I am just glad to see him compete. His drive and competitive nature is something most of the drivers on the grid look up to. I think he'll do much better this year and Nico is no slouch either. It's gonna be great !

I am not Schumacher's fan, but the level of hatred here really makes me hope Schumacher will win a race in style this year.
About Moss: I think he can't stand Schumacher because he really thinks Schumacher is better than Senna and Fangio, and that makes Moss a third tier driver, because Moss always acknowledged Fangio to be his better. For a F1 driver to acknowledge that kind of thing is very hard, but he was happy enough to be second to an absolute genius. Now if Fangio is no longer a freak of nature, that makes Moss very ordinary and definitely one of the rest. Which of course he cannot bear; hence the Schumacher obsession.

I am not Schumacher's fan, but the level of hatred here really makes me hope Schumacher will win a race in style this year. About Moss: I think he can't stand Schumacher because he really thinks Schumacher is better than Senna and Fangio, and that makes Moss a third tier driver, because Moss always acknowledged Fangio to be his better. For a F1 driver to acknowledge that kind of thing is very hard, but he was happy enough to be second to an absolute genius. Now if Fangio is no longer a freak of nature, that makes Moss very ordinary and definitely one of the rest. Which of course he cannot bear; hence the Schumacher obsession.

I am not Schumacher's fan, but the level of hatred here really makes me hope Schumacher will win a race in style this year. About Moss: I think he can't stand Schumacher because he really thinks Schumacher is better than Senna and Fangio, and that makes Moss a third tier driver, because Moss always acknowledged Fangio to be his better. For a F1 driver to acknowledge that kind of thing is very hard, but he was happy enough to be second to an absolute genius. Now if Fangio is no longer a freak of nature, that makes Moss very ordinary and definitely one of the rest. Which of course he cannot bear; hence the Schumacher obsession.

That's telling, because I remember Moss was actually quite a fan of Schumacher before 2002, after 2002, when Michael got equal to fangio, he wasn't singing priase.

U remember albert park 2001, ITV interview, Moss was clearly a fan and stated Michael was making the difference in modern day f1 where the differences are mere tenths. I'm sure Moss was a fan, but he decided to renounce publically his true opinons of what he prevously thought.

I was going through my old F1 magazines and found this quote from Michael,Total Sport, September 1996:

"Q: When will you retire?"MS: To be honest, sooner rather than later... There's a problem with old drivers. If you go right up to the age limit then you start to think about it, the driving, and then you become too slow.So I guess I could go on for another five or six years... as long as I'm enjoying it."

I suppose he still enjoys it. And his speed seems to be ok as well.But it's interesting hearing him talking about quitting in the early 00 or thereabouts. While he is still going strong in 2011 and thinking about driving beyond 2012...

When you talk about getting old when your not old, it's different when you get older and discover you still have something driving you. In 2006 in the Monaco after driver briefings before Silverstone, Nico Rosberg said "I can't see him retiring, Michael just has so much drive,." at the time when Rosberg said that, it actually made me think he would be back. And he did come back, like a reformed drinker who couldn't stay away from his drug, speed and tyres underneath him to feel alive, and he actually said that in 2009 testing, "I felt alive again." When someone says that despite having loads of money and time to relax, you know they belong somewhere else.

Schumacher surprised himself in terms of how long he was in f1, you don't stay in f1 that long unless you really are dedicated to something, but he did need that break after 2006 to just live like a retired man enjoying his success, he seemed like he was giving it a shot, but after a while, you stop relaxing, and wanna stretch, is he the stay at home guy who has pizza and watch a film, or the guy who wants a challenge? Until he really does get old to a point where he finds t's a struggle, he's gonna maximise his f1 life, because he already knows what it feels like to be retired and looking back, when you lost something and get it back, you do approach it with freshness, so I'm not surprised if he goes on. He's got a challenge that he didn't have at the end of his ferrari era and he's fresh from a big break, and the critics have this situation of a living legend carving out a possible additional chapter, it's gotta be perhaps one of his greatest challenges.

When you talk about getting old when your not old, it's different when you get older and discover you still have something driving you. In 2006 in the Monaco after driver briefings before Silverstone, Nico Rosberg said "I can't see him retiring, Michael just has so much drive,." at the time when Rosberg said that, it actually made me think he would be back. And he did come back, like a reformed drinker who couldn't stay away from his drug, speed and tyres underneath him to feel alive, and he actually said that in 2009 testing, "I felt alive again." When someone says that despite having loads of money and time to relax, you know they belong somewhere else.

Schumacher surprised himself in terms of how long he was in f1, you don't stay in f1 that long unless you really are dedicated to something, but he did need that break after 2006 to just live like a retired man enjoying his success, he seemed like he was giving it a shot, but after a while, you stop relaxing, and wanna stretch, is he the stay at home guy who has pizza and watch a film, or the guy who wants a challenge? Until he really does get old to a point where he finds t's a struggle, he's gonna maximise his f1 life, because he already knows what it feels like to be retired and looking back, when you lost something and get it back, you do approach it with freshness, so I'm not surprised if he goes on. He's got a challenge that he didn't have at the end of his ferrari era and he's fresh from a big break, and the critics have this situation of a living legend carving out a possible additional chapter, it's gotta be perhaps one of his greatest challenges.

Good post Sean. I just found it a bit funny to read that quote, and compare it to the situation today.But it seems he still has the fire to win, that makes all the difference.

That's telling, because I remember Moss was actually quite a fan of Schumacher before 2002, after 2002, when Michael got equal to fangio, he wasn't singing priase.

U remember albert park 2001, ITV interview, Moss was clearly a fan and stated Michael was making the difference in modern day f1 where the differences are mere tenths. I'm sure Moss was a fan, but he decided to renounce publically his true opinons of what he prevously thought.

Yep, I remember that too; Moss was always heaping praise on MS in th 1990s then began finding reasons him discredit him. I don't know whether RSNS is right, but Moss' volte-face is certainly curious.

Please do not discuss other posters, and cut out the xenophobia. Please also stick to the topic, which is 'Michael Schumacher' and not 'Sir Stirling Moss'. His opinions are what matter here, and not the man.

would have been nice to see him hit 100 race wins but i dont think hes got much chance in the next 2 seasons. im expecting a much more competitive michael but i dont think the car is quite good enough to beat the the RB 's and ferrari

Anything can happen. If the package is good enough to stay in touch with the front then the possibility exists. How do we know that Webber isn't going to take out Vettel again, or someone blows an engine, or a fortuitous safety car period occurs. With the new tires the opening races could be a lottery and the first team that hits on the ideal tire strategy will have the early advantage.

I hope the W02 is at least good enough for him to be able to defend against the top cars, and to get past the slower cars effectively. That and a little good luck.

He looked rather promising last year at Melbourne. Would've possibly racked up a podium without that first corner incident. And that was in a car he had a lot of trouble in throughout the year. In this car he might prove to be an outsider