Then, according to aides, the plan is to gauge public reaction. If House members are deluged with nothing but hate mail from their districts, Republicans might decide to do nothing but emphasize border security, perhaps even voting on the border bill produced last year. That’s at least until 2014 primary-election filings are over. (The biggest threat to Republicans on immigration is in the primaries anyway, strategists say. No one will lose in the general election because they are too soft on immigration.)

But if leadership’s principles receive some positive feedback, Goodlatte, Cantor, and Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., could advance legislation they have discussed for the last several months. As yet, there is no legislative language drafted, however. Cantor and Goodlatte have talked about a path to citizenship for undocumented “dreamers” who came to this country as kids. Even Rep. Joe Heck, R-Nev., is discussing some sort of “Dream Act.” Issa is mulling broader legalization for other unauthorized immigrants. Rep. Mario Diaz-Balart, R-Fla., is trying to gather support for a legalization plan that would allow undocumented immigrants to get green cards through normal channels, such as children or spouses.

This is at least the second leak to a major media source about the forthcoming “principles” in the last week, even though they haven’t actually been written yet. If you want to know how little confidence you should have in this process, there’s your answer. How the grassroots might react to a new GOP initiative on immigration reform is more important to Boehner and his aides than the substance of the reform itself.

Serious question: At this point, why wait? Cornyn’s view is, I’m all but certain, the view of the majority of the caucus in both the House and Senate. They’re going to pass some sort of amnesty before 2016, be it for DREAMers or something broader. The question is simply when. In that case, what are the arguments for doing nothing this year and waiting until 2015? One, purely viscerally, is that it would be a moral victory over business lobbyists who’ve sworn up and down that they’re going to show the tea party who’s boss by getting immigration passed. But so what? They’ll declare victory anyway when it passes next year instead. Another is that passing amnesty now would move the spotlight off of ObamaCare, which is where the GOP wants it in the run-up to the midterms. I’m not convinced, though. If amnesty gets done, it’ll get done no later than the summer; the fall will be consumed with news of new plan cancellations and stump speeches about the folly of “if you like your plan.” The GOP message machine will be full throttle on O-Care no matter what happens with amnesty, and voters have short memories. Besides, the real battle in the midterms is over the Senate and the Senate passed the Gang of Eight bill long ago. If you want to punish a Senate Republican for his or her vote on that, you don’t need to wait around to see what Boehner does.

The big argument for waiting is that, once the Senate is back in Republican hands, the GOP can dictate terms on immigration reform to Obama. Even if they’re forced to compromise, in theory the final product should be more solid on border security and stricter about legalization than a bill written now would be. But all of that is just another way of asking how much you trust Republicans to drive a hard bargain on this. Per Cornyn, by 2015, they’ll be staring down the barrel of four more years with nothing to show Latino voters by way of immigration reform and a new presidential election right around the corner. They’re not going to hold out for tough legalization measures under those circumstances. (They might hold out for tougher border security.) The closer we get to election day 2016 without a deal, the more leverage Democrats will have in demagoging the GOP, which is an argument for striking some modest deal on amnesty now, while we’re still nearly three years out. That won’t stop the demagoguery — nothing will, including a full amnesty — but it’ll leave it with less teeth. And if you do it now, you know you’ve got new ObamaCare upheaval waiting in the fall that you can use to bring disaffected conservatives back onboard before election day. Look at it from Boehner’s and McConnell’s perspective: If the art of an immigration deal is pandering to Latino voters and big business while minimizing the backlash among the righty base, it makes more sense to pass this when government is divided than when the GOP controls both chambers, no? With government divided, the GOP leadership can kinda sorta spin a compromise bill as a regrettably imperfect solution fashioned by a gridlocked Congress. If Republicans control both chambers, though, there’s nowhere to hide politically. They own the bill, and their only partner on it is The One himself. That might impress Latinos marginally more once something passes, but it also might alienate conservatives more. If nothing else, striking a grand bargain with Obama on amnesty in the last few years of his presidency would give him a little boost for a presidential legacy that stands right now to be defined solely by the ObamaCare debacle. Why do that?

Anyway. Lefty Greg Sargent thinks the GOP won’t agree to a special path to citizenship for illegals but might agree to legalizing illegals with an eye to letting them eventually apply for citizenship under existing channels. Do you find that implausible under a bill crafted by McConnell’s and Boehner’s teams? If so, tell me why. I’m anxious to know.

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Comments

Interesting that this is the issue they’re obsessed with “resolving.” Not a word on Obama’s threat to circumvent Congress with more EOs. Not a word on the new Benghazi revelations. Not a word on the assault on Obamacare’s assault on the First Amendment. Nothing about “resolving” any of those. This is what fills their minds.

But legal immigration reform is an imperative – we should do it now when the we can get it done on our terms. With strict border protection, tracking people on visas etc. when Boehner knows his caucus will have to face the voters soon.

Shift our immigration from family based to skills based. we are the only developed nation that promotes family based immigration. If an immigrant can speak English, has a higher degree, job experience, Masters or Ph.D. from the US – their chances of immigrating improve. – in return for this: Eliminate chained family migration – eliminate visas for brothers and sisters. Eliminate the diversity visa. Implement strict border protection, tracking people on visas etc.

Legal immigration is popular with Asians who have the highest median income in the US, they are social conservatives and should be in the GOP fold.

For illegal immigration – settle for limited legalization for dreamers. It is being done by executive order anyways. Give dreamers work/student visas and have them apply through the existing venues for legal immigration. no special pathways.

After the midterms – the pressure on the GOP to do something increases drastically and we lose our bargaining power. This is an issue democrats will keep beating us with.

ps: I saw a proposal that would give visas to a limited number of illegals – that would allow them to work/leave the country etc but they would have to apply through the existing channels for permanent residence. I want to see more details on this proposal before making up my mind on it. there should be a built in provision that would prevent a future congress from giving them a special path to citizenship.

1. ENFORCE THE RULE OF LAW
Reject ANY proposal to continue to allow Illegal Immigration.

2. STOP ENABLING / PROMOTING ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION…For example:
- WHY does the United States PAY FOR Food Stamp Education in MESXICO? Is it to entice illegals to come to the U.S. illegally, or is it an education program to get Mexicans to tell their family/friends illegally in the U.S. to sign up for Food Stamps?
– Senators just discovered thorugh an investigation that the United states is actually HELPING to deliver ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT children being smuggled into the U.S. to their ILLEGAL parents already in the U.S. Yeah, that’s right — when smugglers are caught trying to smuggle the children of Illegals living in America into the U.S. to re-unite them with their parents, the U.S. Government is not arresting the smugglers and sending the kids back to Mexico…the Government is helping these ‘human traffickers’ to deliver these Illegal children to their illegal parents in the U.S.

That’s right..we KNOW about this, you SOB! So why don’t you do ANYTHING to stop the flood of Illegals into the US…stop the government from AIDING human traffickers & illegals from bringing more into this nation…before you propose even 1 freakin’ bill to help illegals become Instant citizens?!

And how about you start off by holding a Press conference and APOLOGIZE to Conservatives and TEA Party members you attacked and insulted for daring to oppose your BETRAYAL of the military in this Budget Bill disaster you supported?!

91 million Americans out of work and they want to give big business cheaper labor. This is almost criminal.
The GOP leadership is democrat light.
Yet these fools really believe that they won’t be slitting their own throats with amnesty. The dems will have a supermajority in the House and Senate and we will never see a GOP president again.
Once they have packed the courts with radical left judges, we will become hardcore socialist.
Treason.

They are merely “floating” their dirty games to find out just how deep they can stick the knives in conservative backs without hurting themselves beyond repair. If successful with this final solution to holding power permanently, they’ll no longer need to play the silly game of pretending to be conservative at all.
That we should elect such conscienceless ilk is telling about us. That they should dare to use the word “principle” in lieu of their total lack of such, far more telling about them.

AP, quit calling it a controversy over “immigration reform.” Call it what it is: ILLEGAL ALIEN AMNESTY.

bluegill on January 15, 2014 at 7:23 PM

Agreed. This isn’t an immigration issue; that’s been bullshit all along. This is pure race politics based on a blizzard of illegal aliens and the fear of bad Hispanic voting demo. Anything else is a lie.

To be fair, whenever they sit down to talk with their most important constituents, that is all the big contributors to their campaigns want to talk about.

We need to figure out how to crack both parties open and scoop out the nonunion working American filling.

We could do it by directly targeting the open borders business lobby.

We need a populist who will support enacting a $12+/hr. minimum wage, reducing legal immigration and vigorously prosecuting sanctuary cities and the employers of illegals.

fadetogray on January 16, 2014 at 11:51 AM

Sounds good to me. I think now is a fantastic time for a third party. There are folks on the left and right who are disappointed with their choices and neither party is working for the people. But now we need a leader. Do you have anybody in mind?

There are many mind-boggling annoying things about this, but one of them is that there is simply no evidence for the this view that we can’t win in 2016.

None. On two counts.

First, 2012 left 3 million conservative votes on the table. They got their base out. We didn’t. That had nothing to do with amnesty. It had everything to do with the incompetence of the Priebus organization.

Second, there is simply no empirical evidence that amnesty will change the minds of any Hispanics. In fact, the evidence supports the contrary.

I don’t even think they believe their own claims; otherwise they wouldn’t be hiding, like Ryan, afraid to come out and debate their constituents.

The question has been raised as to why HA comments are declining. IMO, it is because this is no longer a conservative site. It is morphing into a RINO site and too many liberal trolls are allowed to post.

I now visit Red State more than HA and the comments at Red State are very well thought out and liberal trolls are not allowed to post. The comments are monitored. I like snark and sarcasm that is in the coments section at HA, but the writers are not conservative. MKH is no conservative and neither is Ed or Alla. Jazz is a joke, and is not a serious thinker.

They are no better than the Democrats that whore theirselves for Big Labor and the radical homosexual lobby.

In fact, they are worse. Because they PRETEND to be friends to Limited government Conservatives. All the while, they are just interested in getting to D.C. to slut theirselves to the Chamber of Commerce and Big Pharma or whatever.

Let’s stop sending these clowns to D.C. to get up there and offer their services to the Chamber or the Big Oil / Big Pharma / Unions / Radical lobbying groups. How many lap dances has McConnell or Cornyn done for their big donors over the years?

Meanwhile they just whine and whine how they “can’t stop the President and his radical agenda” unless we send them more money or sign their pissy little petition on Facebook or such.

Suck it you lousy pieces of ****_*_)*)(()*&(*)&^OIyosadhfl;akshdrfo82341241231.098723%&^$&^#PO&(*&^*(&%^&%$!!!!

Sounds good to me. I think now is a fantastic time for a third party. There are folks on the left and right who are disappointed with their choices and neither party is working for the people. But now we need a leader. Do you have anybody in mind?

magicbeans on January 16, 2014 at 12:22 PM

That’s the key. Going against the entrenched elite is risky business.

Ron Unz might be a possibility. He’s a rich guy with little government experience. He ran and lost badly against Pete Wilson for the R nomination for Governor of California in 1994.

Do you plan on telling your congressman or just someone online, writing from his rec-room who wants you to vote for his third party, the democrats or to stay home?

V7_Sport on January 15, 2014 at 10:06 PM

My congressman is a Democrat in the top 10 most competitive seats. I used to tell my congressman that he was doing it wrong when he was a Republican, and he didn’t listen and lost. What exactly do you want me to do now?

This is an enormous tactical blunder for this election year. Due to Obamacare, Conservatives currently enjoy a tremendous enthusiasm advantage over liberals for the mid term elections. Republicans will win big this year if they don’t blow it. But sticking their finger in the eyes of conservatives by betraying us on the only other issue that excites us as much as Healthcare is absolutely blowing it. It is a truly mystifying strategy. They should not deflate us by betraying us on this issue in an election year. I promise you many, already disillusioned with Washington, will stay home if they do, or possibly even start a third party. If they must go down this path, they should wait until they have made big gains in these midterms so the terms of a future Immigration package can be more sensical coming from a more conservative Congress.

Separately, the entire strategy is a fool’s errand. The conventional wisdom in the beltway that Republicans must end the Immigration debate before 2016 is simply wrong. Republicans rightly supported the Civil Rights Act of 1964 in a greater percentage than did Democrats, but did they get credit for it among black people? No. Black people vote for Democrats by over 90% to this day. Why do Republican insiders think this will be different for Hispanics? Registering millions of new voters for the Democrats, and bringing in millions more as a result of this policy, is not the way to get Republicans elected. It is a sure ticket to permanent minority status. Again, as the Civil Rights vote shows, Republicans will not get any credit for an amnesty. Once a section of the voting block is turned into an interest group locked into identify politics and looking for government goodies, they are Democrats for life. The only way to overcome the disadvantage in Hispanic votes is to educate Hispanics about the benefits of small government. It may not be an easy path, but it is the only option. Enrolling millions of new Democrat voters seeking goodies from Uncle Sam will do nothing but destroy the Republican party for good. There is a reason Democrats are pushing for this so hard. I just can’t believe Republicans are helping them tie the noose around their own necks. They call it the Stupid Party for a reason.

Republicans rightly supported the Civil Rights Act of 1964 in a greater percentage than did Democrats, but did they get credit for it among black people? No.

The Civil Rights Act is a bad example here: Most of the southern states opposed the Civil Rights Act and Democrats were in majority in these states. This was more of a north/south vote (North here is all non-confederate states)

Not sure how the North/South divide invalidates the point. The fact is, the Republican party voted in larger percentage, nationwide, for the Civil Rights Act than did the Democrat party. But black people still vote 90% Democrat, every time. Republicans got no credit for it at all, and no votes.

With illegal immigrants, it will be the same thing. They aren’t going to say “hey, they voted for amnesty!” Most of them will not even be aware of which party voted for what, and will simply continue to go with whatever the media and identity politics tells them. Time and again the data points show this to be true. All voting amnesty will do will be to give the Democrats millions of new votes, and with chain migration tens of millions more in the coming decades. That is why the Democrats want it so bad. Breaking the identity politics hold is the only way to get HIspanic votes, and that takes education. Very tough, but doable if the effort is concerted over time. It is the only option here.

Republicans will win big this year if they don’t blow it… They call it the Stupid Party for a reason.

daviddunn on January 16, 2014 at 2:57 PM

I don’t it’s stupidity. It’s corruption and fear. It’s the corruption of purpose of the party and the simple and consuming fear of the media. If you look at every action they take, really dissect it, it involves many stages and layers of reasoning and calculation driven by corruption and fear. The problem ultimately is that such reasoning within the political realm always faces the verdict of public perception and frustration, and ends up failing and looking stupid. But it is not driven by stupidity. The fact that fear and corruption lead to stupid actions is not the same thing. We could say fear and corruption make them stupid.

Corruption and fear may be their motivation, but that doesn’t change the fact that their actions are stupid. They are fearful of losing power, and they have bought into the idea that passing amnesty is the only way to face “the demographic tide”. They bought into a shallow conventional wisdom rather than thinking beyond Stage One, and that is stupid. They are making a decision to screw their base out of corruption and fear, IN ORDER TO KEEP POWER. But the decision will actually have the opposite effect – it will cause them to lose even more power. That is why it is stupid. They are the Stupid Party not because of their motivations – after all, corruption and fear of losing power motivate the Democrats as well. They are the Stupid Party because the things they do end up producing the opposite of what they want, and increase power for their enemies rather than for themselves.

They are the Stupid Party because the things they do end up producing the opposite of what they want, and increase power for their enemies rather than for themselves.

daviddunn on January 16, 2014 at 4:11 PM

Not much difference between our statements. But I don’t like the sop of “the stupid party.” It’s too glib, and lets them off the hook. It suggests that we just need “smarter” reps. Often the “smartest” are the most afraid and corrupt.

There are many varieties of stupid, and someone can be stupid and also be a tough SOB who puts up a “stupid” but good fight once in a while. But the GOP never does this. NEVER. It behaves with absolute ironclad predictability based on the motivating factors of their fear and corruption. You will never fail to predict the how, what and why of GOP actions by a study of their fear and corruption. In fact, they sometimes contort themselves in ways that are kind of clever. That it ends up being stupid — that is, bites them in the as* — is a function of the fear and corruption.

Why is HA experiencing such low comment/traffic lately?
OmahaConservative on January 15, 2014 at 7:41 PM

HotAir has veered to the left. For example, Ed, Guy Benson, AllahP and MKH have all expressed support for amnesty at some point now. It’s sad to see. And let’s not even mention Jazz. Only Erika hasn’t, that I’ve seen. Michelle Malkin’s HotAir this isn’t.
bluegill on January 15, 2014 at 7:45 PM

Yes. What drives traffic down is that every thread is now a battle to defend conservatism. Bluegill points this out:

AP, quit calling it a controversy over “immigration reform.” Call it what it is: ILLEGAL ALIEN AMNESTY.
bluegill on January 15, 2014 at 7:23 PM

The vocabulary is being altered to redefine the issues. You end up in a battle to resolve what you are even discussing.

I am holding on. I enjoy the comments at HA, but acknowledge the headlines are becoming less conservative and more confrontational. Heck, hostile. I would miss the people who post here. It would be very sad to lose this site before the election. Is that the point?

My instinct says moderators dislike the conversations enough they are trying to put a lid on it. Thus turn-off headlines

Hey, maybe then you can tell the boss conservatism doesnt sell

Hold on everyone. If HA keeps bucking, maybe Breitbart will open a venue. That site is red hot and the young writers are awesome

Meanwhile, I do not believe Boehner is testing the waters. He is playing at testing the waters, so conservatives will think he has ‘given up on amnesty because he ‘got; the message. He needs them to trust the GOP enough to vote GOP in the coming election.

Boehner has obviously promised big biz that amnesty is a sure thing. They are coming out of the woodwork in support, Marriott, ATT, etc

The only way to overcome the disadvantage in Hispanic votes is to educate Hispanics about the benefits of small government. It may not be an easy path, but it is the only option. Enrolling millions of new Democrat voters seeking goodies from Uncle Sam will do nothing but destroy the Republican party for good. There is a reason Democrats are pushing for this so hard. I just can’t believe Republicans are helping them tie the noose around their own necks. They call it the Stupid Party for a reason.
daviddunn on January 16, 2014 at 2:57 PM

There is your mistake. Republicans have no interest in reducing the size of government because that would reduce their power. They are looking to replace their base so they will no longer have to throw a fig leaf at conservatives. They hate us because we aren’t part of their beltway intelligentsia.

Heck yeah, I do. I’m one of those people who makes congressional peons hate their jobs every time this subject comes up. lol

Excellent.

That said, this is an issue where I won’t accept half a loaf. If the GOP goes for amnesty in any form whatsoever, they’ll do it without me.

Roll up your sleeves then. I think this is going to be the next big battle. (Personally, I don’t think anyone who has, say, served a tour in Afghanistan should be deported but it would have to be a pretty high bar to cross) The other stuff like minimum wage are more nonsense ideas that aren’t worth expending the political capital to squash but this requires an overwhelming response to put down.

Gator Country

Are you planning to tell your Congressman anything, and what will you tell him?

I plan on telling them all, last time I went through most of the phone directory and made repeated calls on the ones who were wobbly. I also sent e-mails and actual letters to the congressmen in the state that I am registered in and the ones that I reside in. I see this as a general quarters event, it’s too bad we aren’t better organized.

I’m guessing that it’ll be along the lines of, “If the Republican leadership thinks we need to pass an amnesty bill now to get enough Latino and progressive votes for our side to win, then I’m in full support of it!”

You’re an idiot just by your ranting and raving. If calling people traitors every time you don’t agree is “reasoning” then you need to grow up.

Advocating that we vote for democrats to speed up the collapse of the country or the collapse of the GOP is stupid and traitorous. Advocating that people stay home on election day to make their voice heard is just stupid. That’s just a well reasoned point.

I’ve been doing the numbersUSA for years now concerning amnesty.

Gee, that might, as you put it, slow the “resolution”..

I cast my first vote for Reagan via absentee ballot from an airbase back in 80.

Uphill in the snow, both ways. Well done, you voted for Reagan. I’m glad there wasn’t anyone to remind you over and over about his less than stellar conservative record as governor or an internet or you might have been telling folks to vote for Carter.

I watched him run in 76 and saw how the GOPe pushed him aside for that idiot Ford. Since my dad couldn’t vote for him, he voted for Carter.

He lost the primary, fair and square. I see that the apple didn’t fall far from the tree.

So I suppose that makes him a traitor too.

Dumb. It makes him dumb. Anyone who was a republican, who wanted Reagan yet voted for Carter over Ford was dumb. Was there lead paint in the house?

I’ve said it before and will say it again, your twisting of people’s, including mine to impugn the worst just shows how shallow you are.

I have addressed what you have written a lost line by line, there is no twisting, anyone who advocates voting for democrats to achieve republican principles is an idiot. Anyone who does so knowing it will harm the country is a traitor.

I’ll also say it again that you’re someone in the establishment’s sockpuppet.

What does that even mean? I would say that you are a DNC moby sent here to sew confusion and despair among the right but I think you have just been rolled by them. I think you have been jerked around by your insecurities and your need to thump your chest about how pure you are into doing the opposite of what’s in your best interests. Congratulations, you are uber-pure! Congratulations! You are helping socialists.

You mock the notion of a 3rd party and that’s ok with me because it only tells me you don’t understand history…

I mock your 3rd party because it has no chance of being a viable party for the foreseeable future. I mock it because it will only split the vote to help elect democrats. I don’t understand history? Ross Perot? The Bull Moose Party? Ralph Nader?

(Personally, I don’t think anyone who has, say, served a tour in Afghanistan should be deported but it would have to be a pretty high bar to cross)

V7_Sport on January 16, 2014 at 7:22 PM

WTF?? There are no illegals in the military, genius. There are aliens but they are resident aliens who are legal.

I love how some people seem to think that we have illegals serving just because we have non-citizens serving. Non-citizen !=> illegal alien. I know the left likes to try to conflate all aliens (as they try to call illegals “immigrants” and lump them in with green card holders and the rest) but that is just not how things are and the reason why illegal aliens are NOT “illegal immigrants”. Illegal aliens are not immigrants of any sort. And they most certainly are not serving in the military – and most definitely not doing any tours in Afghanistan.

My congressman is a Democrat in the top 10 most competitive seats. I used to tell my congressman that he was doing it wrong when he was a Republican, and he didn’t listen and lost. What exactly do you want me to do now?

besser tot als rot on January 16, 2014 at 1:58 PM

I want you to stay strong, stay involved and don’t give up. If this is an issue you are passionate about you should at least bookmark NumbersUSA (and Hotair) and when it starts to hit the fan make calls and send e-mails not just to your congressman but the ones who are showing themselves to be on the fence about the issue. It would be great if you could get involved with the GOP to help get rid of your congressman and replace him with someone who will be more apt to listen.
I love your user name by the way.

Exactly. Just like when they keep fretting about “default”. We will never have to go into default, as long as we keep collecting more than our debt obligations. We would only default if we refuse to pay them. In such a scenario of denying the raised debt ceiling is that other spending would have to be cut. To wit, food stamps has doubled since 2008. Yet, everytime AP does his eyorish bit about how devastating it would be to not raise the debt ceiling because default.

Advocating that we vote for democrats to speed up the collapse of the country or the collapse of the GOP is stupid and traitorous. Advocating that people stay home on election day to make their voice heard is just stupid. That’s just a well reasoned point.

V7_Sport on January 16, 2014 at 7:48 PM

Shut up idiot. All you do is harp that everyone needs to tow the GOP line. Well. How do you like what’s in the omnibus bill that was just rushed thru without a good readover contra their own rules about having bills available for X time for review and debate?

We get it, you want to give the GOP more chances to correct itself. Have at it and give your cogent reasons why someone should consider holding their nose and voting for the lesser of two evils. It is your right to opine and the rest of us can consider it and accept your rationale or chose to reject it for some other method to help turn the country around.

By the same token, those at the other end of the scale and for LIB are equally right to maintain their opinion that it’s over.

Just as others are wherever they find themselves between the two extremes – free to discuss their position and why they think their view is better.

Again, just shut up because you’re not in the least bit interested in debating the pros and cons of the various positions – to you anyone not rah-rah for Team Red is a traitor.

Tell you what, why don’t you just trot over to the NSA and drop a dime or two and have them investigate me and my fellow traitors advocating for active destruction of the US? You stupid sack o sh1t!!1

Ross Perot effectively denied Pappy Bush. That was in retrospect a good thing. And yes I voted for him twice because I was already tired of being scroomed by the elites behind Bush 1 & Dole.

The Bull Moose Party? A progressive party because the GOP wasn’t progressive enough for Teddy. Nader? a Libtarg Greenie.

Lincoln? You didn’t mention him. Why? Oh yeah, he buried the Whigs that wanted to go slow on slavery and kept telling folks that it was not yet time to deal with it. Well, where do you think the newly minted republican voters came from? They came from both the Whigs and Democrats because individually they were tired of slavery and wanted action.

The same will be true with amnesty. There are plenty of democratic folks hostile to amnesty, why else does anti-amnesty legislation & polling consistently poll higher than the party affiliation split? If this comes to pass and a 3rd party rises to make repealing amnesty their central plank, they will most certainly become a threat to established order.

That’s why both GOP and Dems passed the omnibus containing provisions that they hope will protect them from the TPers and others, such as leaving IRS fully funded and tacit approval for them to continue denying and harassing non-profit organizations. The problem with the GOP is that many of them are corrupt. A soiled diaper is cleaner and less toxic than Boner or McWattles.

How do you deal with that? Asking them nicely to throw you a conservative bone more often or throw them out on their ass?

At least from my POV, better a devil Dem in office than reward a corrupt GOP letting him maintain his death grip on incumbency. There’s always another cycle to replace the dem with new and hopefully more a more conservative new blood.

Have a look at what Reagan said about a 3rd party run. It was true then and it’s true now. Probably why your dad voted for Carter, huh.. Maybe next year will be the year it FINALLY takes off.. LOL.

V7_Sport on January 16, 2014 at 7:48 PM

Again, you lack understanding of history in context of the times. What was the exigent national crisis in the US in 1975? Nothing much, that’s what. Yeah there was Watergate – over and done with. Vietnam? Winding down. So what sense of crisis was there that people might feel that neither party was addressing? Nada.

Jump to 1980, remember Anderson the 3rd party candidate? Yeah, US was thrashing in inflation, fuel crisis, crisis of global confidence and a pesky Ayatollah holding a few hostages. John was trying to thread the gap between a limp-wristed Carter and a nuke riding cowboy. Often left unmentioned was that he was a Rockefellerian repub from Illinois – a moderate, aghast that this stupid actor would be representing the GOP. But even then, he managed to get about 7% which is much more than the joke that was Nader.

From Wikipedia:

Anderson increasingly found himself at odds with conservatives in his home district and other members of the House. He broke with the administration on Vietnam, was not always a faithful supporter of the Republican agenda, and was a very controversial critic of Richard Nixon during Watergate. In 1974, he was re-elected in Rockford with the lowest percentage of his career. His spot as the chairman of the House Republican Committee was challenged three times after his election. And, when Gerald Ford was defeated in the 1976 Presidential campaign, Anderson lost a key ally in Washington.

But feel free to tell us why a 3rd party would have no chance now or soon. That you have yet to do beyond “because I said so”

No, that’s not what I have written. What I have written is that it is traitorous for people to wish the worst on the country and deliberately vote to that effect. Not a hard concept. You just dislike it being spelled out so clearly. It isn’t clever, it wont get you your 3rd party, it will just further injure an already reeling America.

We get it, you want to give the GOP more chances to correct itself.

I want us to correct the GOP rather than destroy it. Further, I want you to realize that you aren’t going to get everything you want from any political relationship. Playing pretend party leader will just trade one set of frustrations for another.

Have at it and give your cogent reasons why someone should consider holding their nose and voting for the lesser of two evils.

Didn’t you just tell me to shut up? It’s not the lessor of 2 evils I want you to choose, it’s the easier fight. You vote for someone you are only going to have to push 10% of the time rather than 50% of the time. You vote for someone who you CAN push rather than someone who thinks you are a bitter, racist, gun clinger.

By the same token, those at the other end of the scale and for LIB are equally right to maintain their opinion that it’s over

.
If “it’s over” then why stick around? There are other countries. I’ll stay here and keep swinging. Lives, Fortunes and sacred Honor have been given and bigger setbacks than the hotair pity-party have been endured. (That would actually be a better name for your political party, be my guest, no royalties)

Again, just shut up because you’re not in the least bit interested in debating the pros and cons of the various positions –

So now we are back to shut up. You are giving me whiplash. Regardless, the answer is still no.

Tell you what, why don’t you just trot over to the NSA and drop a dime or two and have them investigate me and my fellow traitors advocating for active destruction of the US?

While there are some of you here in the “Destroy the country in order to save it” cult that are pretty creepy, I’m hoping that you are just internet blowhards and not out to commit acts of violence to “speed up the desolation”. You wouldn’t be stockpiling ammonium nitrate, would you?

Ross Perot effectively denied Pappy Bush. That was in retrospect a good thing..

It elected Bill Clinton. Good to see you are happy about that and good to see you understand that 3rd party challenges, at best, split tickets.

And yes I voted for him [Ross Perot ] twice because I was already tired of being scroomed by the elites behind Bush 1 & Dole.

LOL! You voted for Ross Perot twice. Even after he quit and then rejoined again. Even after the complete ass he made out of himself.

Well, where do you think the newly minted republican voters came from? They came from both the Whigs and Democrats because individually they were tired of slavery and wanted action.

LOL, so all you need is a cause like slavery, a candidate who was as articulate as Lincoln and to be willing to see another Civil War. I’m pretty sure you would be fine with the latter…

The same will be true with amnesty.

So fight it, Or would you would rather have your pet project happen even if it damages the country.

If this comes to pass and a 3rd party rises to make repealing amnesty their central plank, they will most certainly become a threat to established order

If it comes to pass, how are you going to repeal it? If 10-12 million illegals are given amnesty and full constitutional rights as citizens repealing it would be making them Illegal again ex post facto. Once this is done, it’s done. Best to stop it before it happens.

That’s why both GOP and Dems passed the omnibus containing provisions that they hope will protect them from the TPers and others,

It’s a conspiracy.

Asking them nicely to throw you a conservative bone more often or throw them out on their ass?

Get organized and then get in their faces, the opposition does it beautifully.

At least from my POV, better a devil Dem in office than reward a corrupt GOP letting him maintain his death grip on incumbency.

Why not elect the best you can get and then WORK to hold them accountable? That’s the way the system is supposed to work, right? That’s the way the opposition pushes their agenda. It’s harder than just sitting at home or actually collaborating to make the bottom fall out, but it’s the good fight, it does work (we stopped amnesty before) and it’s a hell of a lot more satisfying to send the pajama boys of the world back into their parents basement that give them authority over your destiny.

I really miss that man. We really could use the like again. The passage is at 5:50 but listen to it all. We have been here before, we are going to need to pull ourselves out of this this time without that great man.

Vietnam? Winding down.

Lost you mean, deliberately so by the same people who snatched defeat out of the jaws of victory in Iraq. The ones that you were advocating voting for not too long ago.

What was the exigent national crisis in the US in 1975? Nothing much, that’s what. [...]So what sense of crisis was there that people might feel that neither party was addressing? Nada.

We had lost Vietnam, there were people coming back broken and poisoned with agent orange, we had hostages being held in Iran for 444 days, we had Soviet ICBM’s pointing at us, we had Opec putting the screws to us to the point where there were gas lines, there was stagflation, high unemployment, taxes were through the roof, the left was running wild after their glorious 60′s and their war on poverty, etc. The country, under Jimmy Carter was a mess..

But even then, he managed to get about 7% which is much more than the joke that was Nader.

So that’s something to celebrate? 7%, eh? How well did the independent party do in the next election? And the one after that? John Anderson was no conservative by the way, but if you are advocating voting for democrats, that probably isn’t an issue.

That’s why both GOP and Dems passed the omnibus containing provisions that they hope will protect them from the TPers and others, such as leaving IRS fully funded and tacit approval for them to continue denying and harassing non-profit organizations. The problem with the GOP is that many of them are corrupt. A soiled diaper is cleaner and less toxic than Boner or McWattles.
AH_C on January 16, 2014 at 9:40 PM

10-23-13 politico:
Issa, an influential Republican who leads the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, described the legislation as a “come-from-the-shadows” effort that would allow the government to do a full accounting of those who are in the U.S. illegally. Immigrants in this new status would be able to travel to their native country while on this temporary visa, he said.

“It’s halfway – and it always has been – halfway between full amnesty and simply rejecting people,” Issa told POLITICO on Wednesday. “I think if we’re going to break this logjam that’s occurred for my whole 13 years I’ve been in Congress, we have to find middle ground.”
…
A spokeswoman for the Judiciary Committee did not respond as to whether the panel’s chairman, Bob Goodlatte of Virginia, will schedule the bill to be marked up.

GoodRatte is the one who just scrubbed traces of anti amnesty promises from his web site

Issa was at least somewhat knowlegeable about the IRS harrassing of tea party before the election:

Camp and other members of the Ways and Means Committee sent at least four inquiries to the IRS, starting in June 2011. Utah Sen. Orrin Hatch, the top Republican on the Senate Finance Committee, sent three inquiries. And Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., chairman of the House oversight committee, sent at least one.

However, for some reason, the S did not hit the fan until after the election, and they did not make it an election issue – the denial of rights to equal participation in electioneering – which AH_C correctly points out is happening again

How do you deal with that? Asking them nicely to throw you a conservative bone more often or throw them out on their ass?

At least from my POV, better a devil Dem in office than reward a corrupt GOP letting him maintain his death grip on incumbency. There’s always another cycle to replace the dem with new and hopefully more a more conservative new blood.

AH_C on January 16, 2014 at 9:40 PM

AH_C has a point. It is obvious Boehner has promised amnesty to big business, because they are now coming out of hiding ATTMarriott. This means they do not fear consequences (while they lose tea party, they gain 20 million illegals). The IRS is going to coast on harassing tea party before this next election. They are setting up a Serf class, and they want you to vote yes.

The argument is not simple, the politicians, crooked. You cannot simply go along and expect to not be betrayed

Last I heard, somebody was desperately trying to find a primary challenge for Boehner. Although I understand there’s probably no time. Those rumors about him retiring I think indicate he plans to screw over conservatives (on any number of issues, but probably primarily over Amnesty) and he figures he’ll never be reelected afterwords (on the other hand, there’s the example of McCain campaigning as a conservative every 6 years…).

What I cannot stand about this issue is the lack of honesty about what is really being discussed. Despite all the euphemisms it’s simply an amnesty for votes. Nothing is going to change the fact that there are 10′s of millions of people that want in, and we only officially let a million in. So what is streamlining the process? Get your paperwork done in a week and then you still wait 10 years for your number to come up? Are they really going to try to let millions upon millions in every year? There already is a pathway to citizenship – it’s called submitting the paperwork and waiting your turn.

Those rumors about him retiring I think indicate he plans to screw over conservatives (on any number of issues, but probably primarily over Amnesty) and he figures he’ll never be reelected afterwords (on the other hand, there’s the example of McCain campaigning as a conservative every 6 years…).
John_G on January 17, 2014 at 10:24 AM

This is the problem with the current Congress. A lot of these Old Boys are so old, they are basically running for re election just to keep someone else out. A lame duck Congress and a lame duck president with the same objectives. Re elect this crowd and the next day they will dump you

He’s a loon who believes it’s acceptable to vote for democrats just to bring about the collapse of whatever is left.

The question is, who are they working for?

Reptilian shape shifters? The Illuminati? the Bilderburg group? The Joooooooos? Maybe they are just crappy politicians who stuck their finger in the aid and found that many out there are actually for amnesty?

How do you deal with that? Asking them nicely to throw you a conservative bone more often or throw them out on their ass?You roll over and whine on hotair you get involved and demand that they enforce the borders and follow the laws that they passed before there is any talk of immigration reform

At least from my POV, better a devil Dem in office than reward a corrupt GOP

AH_C has a point.

No, he doesn’t. He’s trying to guarantee that the whole system collapses so he can have his pipe dream of a reform party, never mind whether or not that’s conservative. This mentality is pretty narcissistic, “to hell with everything, I just want what I want”.

WTF?? There are no illegals in the military, genius. There are aliens but they are resident aliens who are legal.

Bautista was devastated. An illegal immigrant from Mexico, she had served six years in the U.S. military — including a 13-month tour in Iraq — and was eligible to apply for naturalization under a decades-old law.

…[snip]Illegal aliens are not immigrants of any sort. And they most certainly are not serving in the military – and most definitely not doing any tours in Afghanistan.
ThePrimordialOrderedPair on January 16, 2014 at 7:51 M

During 10 years in the U.S. Army, Luis Lopez served in Iraq and Afghanistan, won medals and had a commander laud his service as a “critical part of the success of his unit fighting the global war on terrorism.”

Mr. Lopez is also an illegal immigrant.

rukiddingme on January 17, 2014 at 12:40 PM

Gee, so ThePrimordialOrderedPair was wrong. Shocker. :-D Thanks, rukiddingme.
Lopez and Bautista, and anyone else who has honorably served ought to be able to stay IMO.