Hello everybody, sorry I haven't posted in awhile. I am still pretty engaged in the lucid dreaming stuff, and I practice almost everyday to keep it in mind. Although, I went from being fully fledged into it to just mildly into it. You see, I have a slight "drug problem" which really consists of nothing but smoking weed here and there but I have an addicts mind. Any drug is too much for me and when I discovered lucid dreaming I realized that if I could master it that would give me exactly what I was looking for in drugs. I was doing really good in october and almost never smoked once the whole month because I was so engaged in lucid dreaming but I eventually caved in and when I start I get hooked on doing it everyday, way too much. When I smoke I get incredibly negative thoughts and I can just feel that I am doing it just to get high. So my question is, how good does lucid dreaming get? I lucid dream pretty frequently but they are very short and only seldomly long, I still haven't tapped into WILD yet so there is a lot of ground to cover. I actually had a lucid dream just earlier before I woke up where I sat down with a friend I was walking with and asked him tons of interesting questions like, "What do you represent?", "Who are you in waking life?", and "Do you know this is a dream?" So yeah, I can definitely achieve it but I just want to know.. when I get it down will it REALLY be a magical enough experience to keep me untempted by the ever present drugs in my life? I want to live my life as happy as I possibly can and I know for a fact that lucid dreaming > drugs.. but I can't seem to fully convince my addict mind that it really is a fact yet. So I ask you guys, how powerful does lucid dreaming get, and what are some examples of why it's such a transcendent experience in your waking and dreaming life? Thank you to anyone who has read this much! Sorry for the wall of text, I hope someone can help though.

I think you are correct in seeing that lucid dreaming, like certain kinds of drugs, is one of the ways that you can enter into an altered state of consciousness. My feeling is that certain naturally occurring substances, especially the psychotropic variety were provided to show us that these altered states were possible, but then we are supposed to do the real work of getting to those levels without using them. I wish I could have seen this at your age really, so you are already way ahead of many.

It's more appropriate to compare Lucid dreaming with psychotropic drugs not weed because lucid dreaming at it's best is really like a trip with one major difference. Reality is not distorted as with almost all psychotropics. Reality is completely replaced and you are left with all of your senses operating normally so you can experience the altered reality clearly. This is very important in terms of getting the fullness of the experience, learning from it, and remembering. For me, once I experienced a perfectly real world in which all of my senses are operating as normal, one that I could explore, touch and even alter, I now have a new high standard of what an altered consciousness can be. Nothing else can give you that. What you can learn there is truly unlimited. Ultimately, you are trying to take something back with you in to your waking life. Some of experiences you have are just really entertaining, some very deep and healing, others just insightful, others spiritual, etc.

Having used these substances and had the equivalent in lucid dreams, I am convinced that the same things we are after in drugs can be provided by lucid dreams. Lucid dreaming at it's best is above ANY experience you can have on drugs. Anyone who doesn't know that, just hasn't had what's possible yet.

Unlike drugs, experiencing the high-end lucid dreaming experiences is not something you can just pop or smoke with instant results. It takes a life long effort, but the rewards are much greater and you don't have the dependency on the substance/crutch.

So keep at it and your are on the right track here. The best way is not the easiest way.

Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

Great post! Thank you so much! You say towards the end how it is not something you can just pop or smoke for instant results and I definitely think that's what makes it less enticing to the average drug users. However, I am a very determined person and i'd prefer the natural way over the drug way any day.. especially considering I have an intense mental addiction to drug use. (Not to be confused with a physical addiction) I am currently not using anything at all, and that means absolutely nothing.

I am not the kinda person who justifies legal drugs or OTC medication either.. when I say no drugs I mean no drugs. From benadryll to mushrooms, I am legitimately sober from it all. The problem is, I live in a community where drug use (especially marijuana) is incredibly common and pretty much the norm. I have no friends anymore because I can't find anyone who doesn't do a shit ton of drugs to the point where I can tell it's a huge crutch in their lives. I'll go to hang out with someone and they'll literally spend hours just thinking of ways we can get high (even considering things like selling stuff they have to buy a bag of pot or something) and somewhere down the line I just started to realize how insane that is. I started to realize that no matter how good the drugs are there is always one thing in common; you take the pill, smoke the grass, etc etc and no matter how good it is it's eventually gonna be over and when it is, what then? I want something that doesn't ever end, and that is sober consciousness. I believe this is the only way to be truly happy all the time.

I have gotten better and better at lucid dreaming but I still am not near to the point where all my temptations to use drugs are gone. I just don't have long enough experiences or total control in them for me to fully satisfy my urge to "trip" or experience the altered state of consciousness that I no longer wish to pursue in my waking life. I guess all I can do is keep on trying and stay positive.

I forgot to add an example of why I love it. One of the most awesome things for me in lucid dreams is being able to touch things and how perfectly real things feel. I often make decisions in lucid dreams to stop and touch various objects just for the purpose of comparing the feel to how waking-life objects feel and trying to determine while in the dream if they feel the same. In one dream I was walking on a trail with some people and suddenly, out of the blue, dropped to the ground and started sifting the dirt and grabbing nearby plants just to see if they felt real. It was really amazing how perfect everything was. I also love to levitate, especially when DCs are there. It fills me with this wonderful feeling, like being high for sure. What's also amazing is that during the dream I am absolutely sure that levitating is completely natural and can be done any time.

The Beach Boy wrote:Great post! Thank you so much! You say towards the end how it is not something you can just pop or smoke for instant results and I definitely think that's what makes it less enticing to the average drug users. However, I am a very determined person and i'd prefer the natural way over the drug way any day..

In this case it turns out the natural way is the best way which is the most important thing. The issue is that we all have a need to to explore consciousness, that's a natural desire that exists within us, I believe for our own conscious evolution. It's a good thing, we just don't always know how to fulfill it. We also have within us the ability to experience these states without adding any external substances. Certain drugs can be useful to show us that these other states of consciousness exist, but we are supposed to learn how to achieve them without drugs. Lucid dreaming is one way that these states can be experienced.

The Beach Boy wrote: I am not the kinda person who justifies legal drugs or OTC medication either.. when I say no drugs I mean no drugs. From benadryll to mushrooms, I am legitimately sober from it all. The problem is, I live in a community where drug use (especially marijuana) is incredibly common and pretty much the norm. I have no friends anymore because I can't find anyone who doesn't do a shit ton of drugs to the point where I can tell it's a huge crutch in their lives.

One thing I figured out at your age was that if I wanted to get away from drugs I would have to find a new group of friends, friendships that weren't based on our mutual interest in drugs. I don't judge people who use them, in fact don't even think they should be illegal. But there is a better way, a higher way toward the same natural desire.

The Beach Boy wrote: I started to realize that no matter how good the drugs are there is always one thing in common; you take the pill, smoke the grass, etc etc and no matter how good it is it's eventually gonna be over and when it is, what then? I want something that doesn't ever end, and that is sober consciousness. I believe this is the only way to be truly happy all the time.

The great thing about lucid dreaming is that it never runs out (not to mention it's also free) and I have found it to be truly satisfying, even days after a real eye-opener lucid dream. For me, the best ones actually have a building up of good feelings that peak after around 2 days after the dream. That's pretty amazing, to feel really good and satisfied for almost a week after.

The Beach Boy wrote:I have gotten better and better at lucid dreaming but I still am not near to the point where all my temptations to use drugs are gone. I just don't have long enough experiences or total control in them for me to fully satisfy my urge to "trip" or experience the altered state of consciousness that I no longer wish to pursue in my waking life. I guess all I can do is keep on trying and stay positive.

Just keep at and try to figure out how to lengthen the time in the lucid dream, that makes a huge difference in the quality of the experience. 90% of the lucid dream experience is just being there, regardless of how much control you have or what's happening in the dream. The longer you are there, the more of it you absorb, and the more potential for a consciousness-expanding experience.

Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

Again, thank you so much! Every night I always wake up from three or four really detailed and complex dreams that always involve friendly story lines and beautiful sorts of adventures. Because of this dream recall and ability to have such fulfilling non-lucid dreams I believe I have real potential for lucid dreaming. Unfortunately, I am not really on top of my lucid dreaming right now. I could be doing a lot more to initiate it.. i'm kinda just running off of "well I hope it happens." How did you personally begin to lengthen your dreams and get to a point where you get so much from them? The lucid dreams I have had so far have brought me great joy but definitely not anything like what you are saying here where it could have fulfilled my consciousness expanding desires two days after it happened.

They only way I can lucid dreams is to have a real focus on making it happen, anything less than full effort doesn't work for me even after 2 years of doing it fairly regularly.

As far as making the lucid dreams longer, that is best accomplished with the WILD technique. Often with other methods, the dream is already more than 1/2 over by the time you become lucid. Another thing is to remain calm and tell yourself that you will be having a long dream as soon as you become lucid. A lot of mine are still on the short side so there's more for me to learn for sure.

But in terms of satisfaction, most are really deeply satisfying. The vivid, detailed dreams you were talking about remembering when you wake up would probably be amazing if you were awake while they are happening instead of just remembering them when you wake up. Mine really don't seem like dreams at all, more like taking a short trip to a real place, another world. It's just really mind-blowing and I almost always get caught up in that aspect. Even though you are creating it, you experience it as a separate person from other people there and also from the environment. That's the out-of-body part of it that makes it so trip-like. Walking around in some foreign land while evaluating it in your mind in real time, trying to figure out where you landed, thinking about what your physical body is doing in bed. I think it's really that separation, being split into 2 that's so mind-blowing. Anyway, I could go on and on. It's best to just go there and experience it.

Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

Wow you really are great at explaining this: "thinking about what your physical body is doing back in bed." that is incredibly interesting! I've never even thought of that, that truly sets in perspective how amazing it really is. Of course it's evident that your body is back in bed but the idea of being in that other world and then contemplating where you really are under the full influence of your waking mind is insane.

Do you think you could give me a brief explanation of how you personally go about performing a successful WILD? I've tried many times but I don't think i've gotten it yet, also do you have any tips on how to train the imagination to be more and more vivid because it seems when I try to do WILD I have trouble truly imagining the place I want to go to in a detail strong enough to really give me any sort of actual impression.

You may also like to consider taking up meditation, 20mins per day can be enough. Ive had some very "wow" spiritual experiences with that, ones which had me thinking about all the time for 3-6 mths. I had a spiritual sexual experience one time in another plane which was soo great, normal sex couldnt compare to it at all and become nothing compared to it for a couple of years.

That being said, Ive also had some great lucid dreams which I get pleasure from thinking about again.... awesome places. The most beautiful place Ive ever seen was during a LD. If you are craving certain feelings you get from drugs, there is no reason why you cant create the same feeling (or even better) in a LD.

I love LD as its free entertainment, very exciting as i never know what will occur etc.

..........

It was shocking to read that where you live everyone does drugs and you cant find friends who arent on them. They obviously arent really truely living their lives much. You may consider at a future time of moving away and finding friends who really know how to live life and enjoy it. (I grew up in a town in which smoking dope, growing it or selling it was the norm... but there was still different social circles in the town who didnt do it).

Yeah, it's a bummer man. Drugs are the normal here, it's seriously depressing. I can't get any peace of mind from the stuff. That's why I desperately want to master lucid dreaming so I can just leave drugs behind completely. I don't want to ever be tempted to get into these states of useless living that so many of my "Friends" have been living..

When I was in my teens smoking a lot of pot, I used to call it the "drug of apathy".

We didn't come to Earth and into this life just to numb our brains, "feel good" and not give a crap about accomplishing anything. I tried it for a while too, before figuring out that it was such a waste. It's good that you can also see that as well.

Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus