I'm on the fence on what the facts are, but I say that it's better safe than sorry. It can't be a BAD thing to improve the environment, decrease our carbon footprints, recycle, and develop green energies. So why we're waiting for definitive proof, might as well go that route. If it's bunk, we have cleaner air. If its not, we may save the planet.

It becomed a BAD thing when global warming is used to push for global socialism and the destruction of America's ability to compete in the worlds markets. I have a REAL problem with people trying to punish america while giving more prolific polluters like China a free pass, and attempts at trying to destroy my quality of life by mandating things like tiny homes, tiny windows in those homes, and spenging thousands of extra dollars on heating/cooling systems for a 1% increase in rated efficiency.
If a reasonable, even handed approach to reducing carbon footprings or whatever was being pursued, I'd have no problem. things like Nuclear energy. fuck pipe dreams like wind and solar energy.

It does prove that the earth was much warmer in the past before there was any man-made input. Thus, natural climate change fluctuates the earth's temps, not mankind.

An analogy, if you will:

Suppose forest fires occur naturally. And let's say people also start forest fires. Let's also pretend for a second that there's also some person out there that knows nothing about the causes of forest fires.

Finally, let's say this disbeliever then looked at a graph showing the occurance of forest fires over a 10 million year period.

Do you think he would have grounds for concluding that humans cannot start forest fires?

The answer, of course, is no. Hopefully you can connect the dots and see how it's relevant to our discussion.

Quote:

That's what this graph is for (proves that CO2 isn't causing warming):

Since you apparently need it spelled out for you: a lack of correlation does not imply a total lack of causation (or amplification).

Last edited by Fuckyouformakingmeregister; 03-28-2008 at 05:44 PM..
Reason: grammar

Suppose forest fires occur naturally. And let's say people also start forest fires. Let's also pretend for a second that there's also some person out there that knows nothing about the causes of forest fires.

Finally, let's say this disbeliever then looked at a graph showing the occurance of forest fires over a 10 million year period.

Do you think he would have grounds for concluding that humans cannot start forest fires?

The answer, of course, is no. Hopefully you can connect the dots and see how it's relevant to our discussion.

Since you apparently need it spelled out for you: a lack of correlation does not imply a total lack of causation (or amplification).

Ah my pathetic little bitch

Naturally occuring forest fires for 10,00,000 years burned till they ran out of fuel raging across half a continent

Man made forest fires get put out within weeks if its a bad bad fire.

So anyone but a pathetic bitch can see that man made forest fires contribute less to forrest firrerryyies than natural ones.

But back to relity

Once again for the dimwitted. If C02 has a delay of 1000 years After the globe warms up and continues to RISE or even remain at the same level long after the globe cools down. It cant have had a significant effect on warming the globe or

GASP there would have to have been a catastrophic event to offset the co2 each time the earth got warm to let it cool again. No such catastrophic events are evident in the record that coincide with the earth cooling.

Get it?

I realize that whole cause and effect thing is a bit beyond your immediate grasp so take a decade or so and work it out mmmkay?

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CFCs are incredibly potent greenhouse gases (crazy high oscillator strengths). The Montreal Protocol, which started the process of banning CFCs, did more to prevent greenhouse warming from human sources than even the most optimistic estimates of Kyoto would have accounted for.

When did that happen? Because in the early 70's american cosmetics companies voluntarily stopped using CFC's as propellants. And the reason had nothing to do with any greenhouse gas issues. They rape the Ozone pretty well.

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It becomed a BAD thing when global warming is used to push for global socialism and the destruction of America's ability to compete in the worlds markets. I have a REAL problem with people trying to punish america while giving more prolific polluters like China a free pass, and attempts at trying to destroy my quality of life by mandating things like tiny homes, tiny windows in those homes, and spenging thousands of extra dollars on heating/cooling systems for a 1% increase in rated efficiency.
If a reasonable, even handed approach to reducing carbon footprings or whatever was being pursued, I'd have no problem. things like Nuclear energy. fuck pipe dreams like wind and solar energy.

good post

USA circa 2001 has 0 carbon footprint

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There is nothing to worry about. Legions of wise people with nothing but all of best interests at heart are ensuring our future of love and infinite bliss. Go watch TV :Bflaps
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Naturally occuring forest fires for 10,00,000 years burned till they ran out of fuel raging across half a continent

Man made forest fires get put out within weeks if its a bad bad fire.

So anyone but a pathetic bitch can see that man made forest fires contribute less to forrest firrerryyies than natural ones.

Once again you miss the point. The argument has nothing to do with forest fires. I even said it was an analogy. But perhaps if I lay it out differently, you'll grasp what's being said:

Here's the "logic" of yours and Badger's argument about global warming:
a) There's a graph that shows a trend of temperature increase occuring in the past
b) Human induced CO2 emissions weren't around in the past
c) Therefore the current observed variation in temperature has nothing to do with human induced CO2 emissions

Now let's apply that kind of "logic" to forest fires:
a) There's a graph that shows forest fires occuring in the past
b) Human induced campfires weren't around in the past
c) Therefore the current levels of forest fires have nothing to do with humans induced campfires

Contrary to what you both seem to believe, multiple things can impact climate at any given time. The existence of natural warming cycles does not immediately eliminate the possibilty that something like CO2 is enhancing its effect.

Quote:

Once again for the dimwitted. If C02 has a delay of 1000 years After the globe warms up and continues to RISE or even remain at the same level long after the globe cools down. It cant have had a significant effect on warming the globe or

GASP there would have to have been a catastrophic event to offset the co2 each time the earth got warm to let it cool again. No such catastrophic events are evident in the record that coincide with the earth cooling.

Get it?

I realize that whole cause and effect thing is a bit beyond your immediate grasp so take a decade or so and work it out mmmkay?

You don't seem to get it. Even if we believe your story about GIGANTIC CO2 levels in the past, there are actually natural processes, such as leaks/sinks in the carbon cycle, that can eliminate carbon from the atmosphere.

Once again you miss the point. The argument has nothing to do with forest fires. I even said it was an analogy. But perhaps if I lay it out differently, you'll grasp what's being said:

Here's the "logic" of yours and Badger's argument about global warming:
a) There's a graph that shows a trend of temperature increase occuring in the past
b) Human induced CO2 emissions weren't around in the past
c) Therefore the current observed variation in temperature has nothing to do with human induced CO2 emissions

Now let's apply that kind of "logic" to forest fires:
a) There's a graph that shows forest fires occuring in the past
b) Human induced campfires weren't around in the past
c) Therefore the current levels of forest fires have nothing to do with humans induced campfires

Contrary to what you both seem to believe, multiple things can impact climate at any given time. The existence of natural warming cycles does not immediately eliminate the possibilty that something like CO2 is enhancing its effect.

You don't seem to get it. Even if we believe your story about GIGANTIC CO2 levels in the past, there are actually natural processes, such as leaks/sinks in the carbon cycle, that can eliminate carbon from the atmosphere.

sorry shit for brains. you posted "experts" saying that all other effects are ruled out. and that left ONLY co2 as the instigator/prime component

Only Co2 could have the effect on that scale needed

ONLY PROBLEM IS YOU STUPID BITCH IS THAT IF THAT WAS THE CASE THE EARTH COULD NEVER COOL DOWN AGAIN WITHOUT A CATASTROPHIC INTERVENTION THAT IS NOT EVIDENT IN THE RECORD AS UNEARTHED BY 12 BRANCHES OF SCIENCE.

get it yet you wall candy eating fuckhead?

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There is nothing to worry about. Legions of wise people with nothing but all of best interests at heart are ensuring our future of love and infinite bliss. Go watch TV :Bflaps
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did you know......water vapour is a major greenhouse gas??
bet ya didnt!

Its at least five times what they thought it was a couple years ago.

__________________
There is nothing to worry about. Legions of wise people with nothing but all of best interests at heart are ensuring our future of love and infinite bliss. Go watch TV :Bflaps
http://www.genmay.com/showthread.php?t=572323

Once again you miss the point. The argument has nothing to do with forest fires. I even said it was an analogy. But perhaps if I lay it out differently, you'll grasp what's being said:

Here's the "logic" of yours and Badger's argument about global warming:
a) There's a graph that shows a trend of temperature increase occuring in the past
b) Human induced CO2 emissions weren't around in the past
c) Therefore the current observed variation in temperature has nothing to do with human induced CO2 emissions

Now let's apply that kind of "logic" to forest fires:
a) There's a graph that shows forest fires occuring in the past?
b) Human induced campfires weren't around in the past
c) Therefore the current levels of forest fires have nothing to do with humans induced campfires

Contrary to what you both seem to believe, multiple things can impact climate at any given time. The existence of natural warming cycles does not immediately eliminate the possibilty that something like CO2 is enhancing its effect.

You don't seem to get it. Even if we believe your story about GIGANTIC CO2 levels in the past, there are actually natural processes, such as leaks/sinks in the carbon cycle, that can eliminate carbon from the atmosphere.

YOu fucking moron MY story about GiGantic co2 levels in the past?

YOu MORON its the Global Warming junk science that tried to Use those clouds to PROOVE it was co2 to the general populace till EVERYONE WITH A FUCKING BRAIN was clued into the FACT(thats'sFACT that co2 ALWAYS lags warming for the last million years

I would ask you to use a real argument but alas Only a jesuit could take your position and even attempt to confuse people

__________________
There is nothing to worry about. Legions of wise people with nothing but all of best interests at heart are ensuring our future of love and infinite bliss. Go watch TV :Bflaps
http://www.genmay.com/showthread.php?t=572323

__________________
There is nothing to worry about. Legions of wise people with nothing but all of best interests at heart are ensuring our future of love and infinite bliss. Go watch TV :Bflaps
http://www.genmay.com/showthread.php?t=572323