As you may already know, Iberia has no service to Asia and there's no indication that they will launch any service in the future. My question is why Iberia can't operate a single profitable to route to Asia. I do not expect them to have a huge network, but it surprises me that they can't even fly some times a week to PEK, HKG or NRT, for example. So, I would like to know the possible reasons of this. I suppose it is related to market size, and to the fact that there isn't enough market to sustain it, but it shocks me that even with connections (IB's network at one end: Spain, Portugal, West Africa, Latam; and OW at the other: JAL in NRT and CX in HKG), there's no enough demand. A flight MAD-HKG would be a hub-to-hub route for OW, as well as MAD-NRT.

It surprises even more if we look at the high number of european airlines that serve PEK, HKG or NRT.

Finally, I suppose that with the BA-IB merger, Iberia to Asia will be less likely than without it, but it stills surprises me that more than 10 cities in Europe can have a flight to Tokyo and MAD is unable.

There are approx 13 flights a day (BA/IB) MAD LHR so connecting LHR HKG with BA or CX is easy. Ditto BA to PEK/PVG, BA/JL to TYO. In addition, you have EK just started daily MAD DXB, QR flies BCN/MAD to DOH, and SQ BCN/SIN. I would guess that IB has done the numbers and for now is concentrating on areas where they know they make money (eg LATAM) and has no wish to enter the frenzy to Asia.

To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215

Anyhow one thing that works against routes to the Far-East is geography. Spain is on the far southwest edge of Europe, so unlike France, Germany or more central countries virtually all the traffic must be generated in the Iberian peninsula as people are not going to back-track to Spain to catch a flight to Japan. One hope IB could have is to connect some South America traffic to Asia, but even that has many options to chose from these days.
Also the fact that Spain historically has not had much business links at the Far-East, nor is a large business destination on its own further reduces viability of long-haul service.

Air Europa and another Spanish airline (I think it was Air Madrid - now bankrupt) flew to Beijing and Shanghai for a while. That was soon reduced to just Beijing and then cancelled all together. It appears that long-haul flights to South America are more profitable. Air China now flies from Beijing to Sao Paulo via Madrid. I've always thought that Hong Kong would be a good option, with CX connections to the Phillipines and Taiwan. Right now, you need at least 2 stops to get to Taiwan (I flew TPE-HKG-BKK-SVO-LHR-MAD).

Quoting realsim (Thread starter):Finally, I suppose that with the BA-IB merger, Iberia to Asia will be less likely than without it, but it stills surprises me that more than 10 cities in Europe can have a flight to Tokyo and MAD is unable.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 7):Maybe the "problem" is in London. I mean, with a unified BA-IB, LHR would be the natural gateway to Asia, while MAD would be the natural gateway to Latin America.

I actually think the BA-IB merger might work in favor of MAD-Asia flights. First of all because it might force a shape up in IB's on board product and service - which are key in high yield ultra long haul. But secondly, the fast-growing business market between Latin America and Asia will demand a one-stop connection - not the two that would be required if all BA-IB flights to Asia are out of LHR. So I think PVG and NRT (aided by a hopefully resurgent JL) are not that far on the horizon from MAD.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 7):Planes such as the 787 might make Asia-MAD flights more feasible due to lower fuel costs.

Certainly, and it would likely be the right-sized aircraft for some thinner routes like say MAD-BOM or MAD-HKG.

Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 9):Air Europa and another Spanish airline (I think it was Air Madrid - now bankrupt) flew to Beijing and Shanghai for a while. That was soon reduced to just Beijing and then cancelled all together. It appears that long-haul flights to South America are more profitable.

Its not just profitability, but also that airlines like UX or the defunct Air Madrid/ Air Comet rely mostly on VFR passengers for their long-haul flights, which is not a big component between Spain and China. IB generally has a more balanced passenger mix.

Quoting OP3000 (Reply 10):But secondly, the fast-growing business market between Latin America and Asia will demand a one-stop connection - not the two that would be required if all BA-IB flights to Asia are out of LHR. So I think PVG and NRT (aided by a hopefully resurgent JL) are not that far on the horizon from MAD.

I thought about that, but wouldn't oneworld passengers be better off if they fly, say, LA or AA from South America to the U.S. and then AA, CX or JL from the U.S. to Asia? There are many LatAm-East Asia city pairs that can be served this way with one-stop with a shorter travel time than via Europe.

IB does codeshare on JL flights AMS-NRT, routing MAD-AMS-NRT using IB flightnumbers.
But JAL pulls out of AMS in late September, so maybe IB will switch to FRA for codesharing in the future, or via CDG.

I don't think IB has much chances on Asia due to their geographical position in Europe. The majors are in place and have dozens of good connections via AMS, CDG, FCO, LHR, MUC, MXP and ZRH to name a few.

As far as oneworld is concerned I guess connections via LHR will be developped and eventually that could lead to route openings in MAD seeing how precious slots are in LHR should some route have enough support from MAD. A oneworld family partnership with AY should do miracles but that doesn't seem to be very explored by IB. CX and JL must be options to seek but if that didn't happen by now there must be reasons that are either that it wouldn't work or that the people in charge are incompetant. I would tend to vote for the first option but seeing how little cooperation there seems to be in terms of route planning and sharing there is in oneworld, I wonder.

If anything, TP has more chances to succeed at taping the Brazil-China/India market than even IB does.

Quoting brightcedars (Reply 22):. A oneworld family partnership with AY should do miracles but that doesn't seem to be very explored by IB. CX and JL must be options to seek but if that didn't happen by now

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 11):I thought about that, but wouldn't oneworld passengers be better off if they fly, say, LA or AA from South America to the U.S. and then AA, CX or JL from the U.S. to Asia? There are many LatAm-East Asia city pairs that can be served this way with one-stop with a shorter travel time than via Europe.

Yes, flying to Asia via the U.S. is the most popular routing for South American pax. LAN currently code-shares on CX's HKG-JFK-HKG and HKG-LAX-HKG flights. Also, LAN code-shares on CX's HKG-AKL-HKG services and provides one-stop connections for many South American passengers via AKL and SYD. CX recently stated, "Flight schedules and Auckland’s geographic location means that the fastest routing between Hong Kong and Santiago will be via Auckland. The fact that New Zealand does not require transit passengers from many countries to obtain visas will also make travelling via Auckland an attractive proposition between South America and Hong Kong and Asia. Many passengers already connect between South America and Hong Kong, using the service of Cathay Pacific, and Cathay Pacific expects the number of passengers to increase significantly."http://www.cathaypacific.com/cpa/en_...b338588210VgnVCM62000007d21c39____

25 A342
: I wonder how many connecting passengers AY has that go from MAD via HEL to Asia? Notice how perfectly HEL is positioned when going from MAD to Northea