motherscratcher wrote:Fuck, I knew I should have gotten in on Archer. If I'm not in from the beginning I have a tough time making myself jump in midway. Sounds like this is one that I have to catch up on.

I think it's on Netflix. The plot isn't exactly complicated either, pretty easy to get caught up on.

e0y2e3 wrote:When Betty starts beating Sally again next week you both will be wrong.

This show is going to push Sally's youth movement more and more and her strength will be every single bit as important as Don and Betty, if not more so. They started this last year (a lot). She kept losing her battles with Betty last year, that is going to stop.

No reason whatsoever to be so binary with a plot line so complex. Continuing clashes between Sally and Betty are as inevitable as an irrelevant Indians' season, replete with the generation gap angle.

Doesn't mean that ending scene carried that interpretation.

PS - Doesn't mean I'm dissing Dingle Stetson or any of your favorite bloggers or your infatuation with mediocre network sitcoms like Community. I just don't agree with a single interpretation.

Was terrified they'd milk the Greg the Rapist storyline out once we found out he didn't die in Nam. He's done now. They can move on with Joanie's character.

Lots of good Draper scenes. The elevator scene was classic right at the beginning. As was his verbal beatdown of the new dude at the bar. The dream sequence murder shows that this season will be all about Don approaching midlife crisis and trying not to cheat on Megan, which looks like it will be impossible. Her telling him to "watch the smoking" ... she may as well of just said "Don, sleep with all my hot friends". Bossing Draper around is a big mistake that Don will make her pay for by banging everything in Midtown that can fog a mirror.

Peggy - how can you not love her character? Show does a great job showing both sides of her, with her guard up at work and down outside of it and the internal battles she wages mentally with being a woman with some status in a mans office. Her beatdown of Roger was excellent. Roger is peeling 20's like Ray Liotta's character in GoodFellas here in season five. And has mailed it in professionally more than Mike Holmgren. Will be interesting to see which way it goes with him.

Chick that plays Sally Draper is an amazing child actress.

"It's like dating a woman who hates you so much she will never break up with you, even if you burn down the house every single autumn." ~ Chuck Klosterman on Browns fans relationship with the Browns

So besides Greg going back to Nam and that relationship going down the shitter, did anything else significant happen in this episode? It seemed really dramatic the whole way through with Don's sickness/Don and Megan mini-fight/Chicago killer angle, but then nothing really happened. Correct?

With two more seasons still left after this one, it looks like they're going to burn this entire season with Draper on him fighting temptation, then likely succumbing late in the season leading to some dramatic season ending cliff hanger. Maybe with Betty, maybe with Peggy, maybe with a returned Dr Faye (please God) ... maybe with the hostess from the corner bar.

"It's like dating a woman who hates you so much she will never break up with you, even if you burn down the house every single autumn." ~ Chuck Klosterman on Browns fans relationship with the Browns

Draper has been so professionally disengaged through four hours this season. You saw Weiner get him back in the mix a little with his verbal beatdown of the new guy at the bar last week. Something major is going to happen at the firm, and Draper is going to have to rip off the warmups and get back in the game. Things just going to well at SCDP right now, time for some drama.

"It's like dating a woman who hates you so much she will never break up with you, even if you burn down the house every single autumn." ~ Chuck Klosterman on Browns fans relationship with the Browns

swerb wrote:Something major is going to happen at SCDP either this week or next.

Draper has been so professionally disengaged through four hours this season. You saw Weiner get him back in the mix a little with his verbal beatdown of the new guy at the bar last week. Something major is going to happen at the firm, and Draper is going to have to rip off the warmups and get back in the game. Things just going to well at SCDP right now, time for some drama.

Cooper bites it is my guess. His complete irrelevance at the start of the opening episode feels like foreshadowing. It would create a great void for Pete to try to exploit while Sterling is a child and Don is focussed on personal matters. Wither Layne?

swerb wrote:Something major is going to happen at SCDP either this week or next.

Draper has been so professionally disengaged through four hours this season. You saw Weiner get him back in the mix a little with his verbal beatdown of the new guy at the bar last week. Something major is going to happen at the firm, and Draper is going to have to rip off the warmups and get back in the game. Things just going to well at SCDP right now, time for some drama.

Cooper bites it is my guess. His complete irrelevance at the start of the opening episode feels like foreshadowing. It would create a great void for Pete to try to exploit while Sterling is a child and Don is focussed on personal matters. Wither Layne?

But the riot issue is too close to dismiss.

And Sterling has that history of heart trouble.

Unless it is DD/DW himself?!?! Scarlet fever?

I don't think it's going to be Draper ... I think this whole start with him, the douchie surprise party, him being passive in the board room, the sickness, the dream ... all a set up for some epic Draper episodes where the firm goes through some major strife, causing Draper to answer the bell, professionally kick some asses, and for that to lead into some sort of marital infidelity.

"It's like dating a woman who hates you so much she will never break up with you, even if you burn down the house every single autumn." ~ Chuck Klosterman on Browns fans relationship with the Browns

swerb wrote:Something major is going to happen at SCDP either this week or next.

Draper has been so professionally disengaged through four hours this season. You saw Weiner get him back in the mix a little with his verbal beatdown of the new guy at the bar last week. Something major is going to happen at the firm, and Draper is going to have to rip off the warmups and get back in the game. Things just going to well at SCDP right now, time for some drama.

Cooper bites it is my guess. His complete irrelevance at the start of the opening episode feels like foreshadowing. It would create a great void for Pete to try to exploit while Sterling is a child and Don is focussed on personal matters. Wither Layne?

But the riot issue is too close to dismiss.

And Sterling has that history of heart trouble.

Unless it is DD/DW himself?!?! Scarlet fever?

I don't think it's going to be Draper ... I think this whole start with him, the douchie surprise party, him being passive in the board room, the sickness, the dream ... all a set up for some epic Draper episodes where the firm goes through some major strife, causing Draper to answer the bell, professionally kick some asses, and for that to lead into some sort of marital infidelity.

Facsinating concept of his character . DD/DW as a preditory creature. Marital bliss and fidelity makes him soft and he needs one to have the other, or one is the bi-prtoduct of the other rather than unhappiness or unfulfillment; and ultimately he has no control over that.

I thought I was into the fidelity aspect of this show, Rich would sell his house to see some adultery.

I happen to agree with Rich, something is going down at the firm AND I think we start to see some legit trouble with Betty and the hubby after he purposely didn't tell her Don called back. Megan seems hell bent on Don recognizing that SHE'S the wife now and any iota of attention he gives back to Betty & the kids irks Megan.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

When Draper was talking to Megan and she said "And watch your smoking" ... at which point Draper looked at the smoke with a disgusted face and hotboxed the last 1/3 of it ... that was a definitive moment.

She will pay for trying to tell Draper to watch his smoking.

Like telling JB to watch his spelling. Who the F does she think she is? One more comment like that and she'll be back in Montreal as a cocktail waitress by episode 9.

"It's like dating a woman who hates you so much she will never break up with you, even if you burn down the house every single autumn." ~ Chuck Klosterman on Browns fans relationship with the Browns

Really enjoyed that episode (finally). It was probably the only one I've really liked all season (I know they all start out slow, but still). The party, the fight, the business deal gone awry, all very entertaining. Pete Campbell is obviously on the brink of a nervous breakdown. One or more of these things may have taken him there: overwhelming guilt for cheating on his wife again, childlike jealousy of not being able to bed the high school girl from driving class, or a realization that he can be a world class asshole. It may be something deeper, shit I don't know, but it's fun to watch. The actor portraying him, Vincent Kartheiser (had to Google that), pulled off his best performance ever IMO.All that being said, I don't think that episode could have been much better. What was it missing? Betty, her husband, mother in law, and the kids. Great. I don't think there's much of anything that can happen between them that I can genuinely give a shit about. I think next week could be just as good/bat-shit crazy; we'll see.

EDIT: I realized that I left out an extreme level of Don Draper envy on the list of Pete Campbell's dysfunctions, which might be a root cause of the others.

And what an OUTSTANDING episode of Mad Men last night. A fascinating character study of two of the mentally weaker people on the show, Pete Campbell and Lane Price. Some epic Draper scenes, some classic Roger one liners, and the first office fistfight. While there were no major bombshell plot developments, last night should have reminded all Mad Men fans why this is the best show on television: no hour drama has ever been better at developing characters, making you care about them, and effectively managing several very interesting sub-plots throughout the course of a season.

Last night was primarily about Pete. Who has wanted to be Don Draper since the first episode of the first season. And now, ironically, he has most of Don’s life from when his idolization of him began: the house in the suburbs, the beautiful housewife, kids, and a position as one of the firm’s top account men. Yet Pete is more miserable than ever, because he feels like he doesn’t get the respect he deserves professionally (because he’s so snively) and lacks the cool confidence that just comes natural to Draper. He wants to be respected, admired, and feared like Draper … but it will never happen for Pete. Evidenced last night by the fact he couldn’t even fix his own faucet (don’t worry Pete, I couldn’t do that either), when he was kicked to the curb by the girl in driving school in favor of “Mr. Handsome”, and by his “character choice” at the “party with Roger’s friends” they attended.

Then the cab ride home with Don. With Draper as the moral compass! Classic! Telling Pete how lucky he was to have Trudy and a beautiful baby. Pete just absolutely incensed that he was getting the moral high ground from Draper.

The scene was a fascinating look at both men. Don, who always wants what he doesn’t have. And Pete, who pretty much has everything he’s ever wanted, but lacks the self-confidence to ever be truly happy. And at its core, this is what Mad Men really is. In depth character examinations of successful business arena males during the 1960’s. All of them wired a little different, and together, cover a large cross section of the types of people the world is made up of.

If all ya’ like is bells, whistles, shiny things, and massive plot developments … ya' prolly weren’t super impressed with last night. If you appreciate outstanding writing and all the hidden little things that make great television shows great, you loved last night.

Other quick takeaways …

• Three EPIC Roger one-liners last night: “Work, work, work Don.” (at the “party”), “I know we should probably do something here, but am I the only one that really wants to see this?” (before the Pete/Lane fight), and “When this job is going great, it provides everything you could ever need. Believe me, I remember.” (to Cosgrove near the end)

• The Lane/Pete fight. LOL … that’s all I got.

• Trudy’s outmaneuvering of Draper when he tried to get out of going to their house for the dinner party was super. Trudy is a great supporting character in this show.

• Megan continues to assert her will on Draper, making him call to try and get out of the party when he tried to make her do it. The show is going out of its way to point out weekly the stark differences between Betty and Megan as wives.

• Lane – poor guy. Couldn’t close the deal with Jaguar. Socially awkward. Made a pass at Joanie, who it is good to see back in the office. Be interesting to see what they do with her character the rest of the season.

• With SO MANY great characters on the show, every Sunday you get a couple that are kinda left outta the mix. This week it was Peggy and Betty. It looks as if the whole Betty & her husband storyline will be there this year … but not be featured or prevalent. I do expect the Sally Draper storyline to expand as we move into the second half of the season.

"It's like dating a woman who hates you so much she will never break up with you, even if you burn down the house every single autumn." ~ Chuck Klosterman on Browns fans relationship with the Browns

Absolutely perfect timing for the Pete melt down. He recently has kind of propelled himself as one the big boys in the office, and at least in his mind he thinks he's gained a certain level of their respect evidenced by him calling Lane a homo in front of the boys. But when Lane said put up your dukes Pete was waiting for the elder tribesmen to step up for him and bail him out, LOL not a chance.

The Don, Roger & Pete triangle is awesome. You got the self made superstar in Don, who gets completely annoyed by Pete. Pete, who was hired by Roger (who also hired Don), and wants nothing more than to be Don, but won't be nor can be. Then Roger, (who hired em both and has always viewed himself as a scary judge of talent) all along hoped his hire Pete would turn out to be another Don (who Roger sees some of his younger self in) yet just can't stand Pete for a handful of reasons.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

Lots of reviews online hit it on the head for this season. Death has been the prevailing theme in the background (the nurse murders, the killer at U of Texas, etc.) and I agree that I think it comes to the forefront before the end of the season. The best speculation I saw, or at least that would be the most interesting, is that Don is so happy, something will happen to Meghan. That would probably drive Don off the deep end.

"It's like dating a woman who hates you so much she will never break up with you, even if you burn down the house every single autumn." ~ Chuck Klosterman on Browns fans relationship with the Browns

Would be one way of keeping any Betty Don reunion open, and also leaves the possibility of any Don and Joan/Peggy stuff ever happening, which I know a lot of people seem to think a Don/Peggy thing has a legit chance, I completely disagree however.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

Lots of reviews online hit it on the head for this season. Death has been the prevailing theme in the background (the nurse murders, the killer at U of Texas, etc.) and I agree that I think it comes to the forefront before the end of the season. The best speculation I saw, or at least that would be the most interesting, is that Don is so happy, something will happen to Meghan. That would probably drive Don off the deep end.

Totally agree.

Don seems to have it together, so expect it. And Weiner will off anyone.

OTOH - I don't now if death is literal here. 66 was really when the "old" 60's died and what people think as the 60's / 70's started. Next cultural game change came in the early 80's. So that may be the figurative statement.

Last edited by jb on Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

And what an OUTSTANDING episode of Mad Men last night. A fascinating character study of two of the mentally weaker people on the show, Pete Campbell and Lane Price. Some epic Draper scenes, some classic Roger one liners, and the first office fistfight. While there were no major bombshell plot developments, last night should have reminded all Mad Men fans why this is the best show on television: no hour drama has ever been better at developing characters, making you care about them, and effectively managing several very interesting sub-plots throughout the course of a season.

Last night was primarily about Pete. Who has wanted to be Don Draper since the first episode of the first season. And now, ironically, he has most of Don’s life from when his idolization of him began: the house in the suburbs, the beautiful housewife, kids, and a position as one of the firm’s top account men. Yet Pete is more miserable than ever, because he feels like he doesn’t get the respect he deserves professionally (because he’s so snively) and lacks the cool confidence that just comes natural to Draper. He wants to be respected, admired, and feared like Draper … but it will never happen for Pete. Evidenced last night by the fact he couldn’t even fix his own faucet (don’t worry Pete, I couldn’t do that either), when he was kicked to the curb by the girl in driving school in favor of “Mr. Handsome”, and by his “character choice” at the “party with Roger’s friends” they attended.

Then the cab ride home with Don. With Draper as the moral compass! Classic! Telling Pete how lucky he was to have Trudy and a beautiful baby. Pete just absolutely incensed that he was getting the moral high ground from Draper.

The scene was a fascinating look at both men. Don, who always wants what he doesn’t have. And Pete, who pretty much has everything he’s ever wanted, but lacks the self-confidence to ever be truly happy. And at its core, this is what Mad Men really is. In depth character examinations of successful business arena males during the 1960’s. All of them wired a little different, and together, cover a large cross section of the types of people the world is made up of.

If all ya’ like is bells, whistles, shiny things, and massive plot developments … ya' prolly weren’t super impressed with last night. If you appreciate outstanding writing and all the hidden little things that make great television shows great, you loved last night.

Other quick takeaways …

• Three EPIC Roger one-liners last night: “Work, work, work Don.” (at the “party”), “I know we should probably do something here, but am I the only one that really wants to see this?” (before the Pete/Lane fight), and “When this job is going great, it provides everything you could ever need. Believe me, I remember.” (to Cosgrove near the end)

• The Lane/Pete fight. LOL … that’s all I got.

• Trudy’s outmaneuvering of Draper when he tried to get out of going to their house for the dinner party was super. Trudy is a great supporting character in this show.

• Megan continues to assert her will on Draper, making him call to try and get out of the party when he tried to make her do it. The show is going out of its way to point out weekly the stark differences between Betty and Megan as wives.

• Lane – poor guy. Couldn’t close the deal with Jaguar. Socially awkward. Made a pass at Joanie, who it is good to see back in the office. Be interesting to see what they do with her character the rest of the season.

• With SO MANY great characters on the show, every Sunday you get a couple that are kinda left outta the mix. This week it was Peggy and Betty. It looks as if the whole Betty & her husband storyline will be there this year … but not be featured or prevalent. I do expect the Sally Draper storyline to expand as we move into the second half of the season.

Just catching up and your read on that so is so close to mine and even the avclub review it is scary. You just get this show or you don't

Lots of reviews online hit it on the head for this season. Death has been the prevailing theme in the background (the nurse murders, the killer at U of Texas, etc.) and I agree that I think it comes to the forefront before the end of the season. The best speculation I saw, or at least that would be the most interesting, is that Don is so happy, something will happen to Meghan. That would probably drive Don off the deep end.

Totally agree.

Don seems to have it together, so expect it. And Weiner will off anyone.

OTOH - I don't now if death is literal here. 66 was really when the "old" 60's died and what people think as the 60's / 70's started. Next cultural game change came in the early 80's. So that may be the figurative statement.

I cannot even pretend to know what Weiner will do (he was the only Sopranos writer that always surprised) but I think your OTOH is more right than random dude from Rich's blog.

Thinking Megan is going to get exposed as having a past as crazy as Don's. Maybe in porn. Maybe an escort. Just playing back the foreshadowing about her being an actress and knowing men in other parts of the city. Something that shatters him and drives him back to Besty as she alienates Henry.