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Re: Who is Redszone's #24 prospect?

Originally Posted by REDblooded

Doug, what kind of info/scouting reports do you have on Henry Rodriguez? I'm voting for him purely based off of position and numbers, but would like to know more...

He is fast. I timed him to first base on a drag bunt and it was 3.45. While it was a drag bunt, that is still incredibly fast. Outside of that, I know next to nothing. I have seen him hit about 10 times, in grainy video online from Venezuela. I think his arm can handle shortstop. I haven't seen anything close to enough of him defensively to say one way or the other as far as him sticking at shortstop. He never had to make any plays more than a few steps to his side when I was able to watch him. There is some video up on youtube of him though. I took it with my camera, off of my laptop where I was watching the game online. He looks like a slap hitter in the video's, but I only had a few of them. I missed the at bat from the previous night where he rocked one off the CF wall for a triple.

Re: Who is Redszone's #24 prospect?

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Does him being left handed give him an advantage in getting major leaguers out more than it would a right handed pitcher? If the answer is no, and it is a no, then there should be no advantage given. In fact, being a lefty means the league is likely to hit you harder than being a righty. So we should actually deduct something small from lefties. (I only went back to 2003, but lefties were hit harder over that time span).

I'm not disagreeing with you, but in a way, his being left-handed does give him an advantage in getting major leaguers out. We all know the saying about left-handed pitchers always having jobs in MLB. Clearly, it gives him an advantage in getting left-handed hitters out. Because effective LH pitchers are such a commodity, he will be given more opportunity than a right-hander with similar overall results, which could theoretically result in him getting more major leaguers out.

Re: Who is Redszone's #24 prospect?

Originally Posted by camisadelgolf

I'm not disagreeing with you, but in a way, his being left-handed does give him an advantage in getting major leaguers out. We all know the saying about left-handed pitchers always having jobs in MLB. Clearly, it gives him an advantage in getting left-handed hitters out. Because effective LH pitchers are such a commodity, he will be given more opportunity than a right-hander with similar overall results, which could theoretically result in him getting more major leaguers out.

I see where you are coming from, but at the same time there are plenty of Brandon Phillips out there who can't hit righties either.

Re: Who is Redszone's #24 prospect?

Of course. I'm just saying that you can make the argument that you could factor in which arm a pitcher uses when ranking prospects. At a minimum, it at least changes the value of the player even if the numbers are the same.

Re: Who is Redszone's #24 prospect?

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Does him being left handed give him an advantage in getting major leaguers out more than it would a right handed pitcher? If the answer is no, and it is a no, then there should be no advantage given. In fact, being a lefty means the league is likely to hit you harder than being a righty. So we should actually deduct something small from lefties. (I only went back to 2003, but lefties were hit harder over that time span).

So you agree that handedness is pertinent then. :

"You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

Re: Who is Redszone's #24 prospect?

Originally Posted by Red Daddy

All I know is that Serrano dominates and strikes out twice as many as Fairel, walks less, and I would much rather have Serrano than Fairel, lefthanded or not.

True to this point, let's not forget however Fairel had 110 IP to Serrano's relatively short debut of 49 IP. Not to mention Fairel is 21 and Serrano 23. New guy in the league who guys haven't seen yet with his polish is likely to look a whole lot better than he is. Serrano had 10.5 K's per 9 and Fairel 8.7, Serrano 2.2 BB/9 Fairel 3.0. That differential (which isn't twice as many) is pretty likely to shrink a solid deal and in the end I don't see them as all that different in terms of overall value.

"You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

Re: Who is Redszone's #24 prospect?

Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo

True to this point, let's not forget however Fairel had 110 IP to Serrano's relatively short debut of 49 IP. Not to mention Fairel is 21 and Serrano 23. New guy in the league who guys haven't seen yet with his polish is likely to look a whole lot better than he is. Serrano had 10.5 K's per 9 and Fairel 8.7, Serrano 2.2 BB/9 Fairel 3.0. That differential (which isn't twice as many) is pretty likely to shrink a solid deal and in the end I don't see them as all that different in terms of overall value.

Fairel's k rate according to KC61 is 5.4. He is correct as that was his k rate in high A ball. It was 8.7 in low A, compared to Serrano's 10.5 K rate in Dayton.

Re: Who is Redszone's #24 prospect?

Originally Posted by Red Daddy

Fairel's k rate according to KC61 is 5.4. He is correct as that was his k rate in high A ball. It was 8.7 in low A, compared to Serrano's 10.5 K rate in Dayton.

And so you are just gonna go with the high A rate for Fairel then? I used the only league they both pitched in as the best indicator. But on the season combined Serrano was at 10.6 K/9 and 2.4 BB/9 and Fairel 7.7 K/9 and 3.1 BB/9 only then we have to sit and toss around the fact that Fairel pitched at higher levels and again at a much younger age. Bottom line too me is I see little difference in their productivity going forward.

"You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

Re: Who is Redszone's #24 prospect?

Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo

And so you are just gonna go with the high A rate for Fairel then? I used the only league they both pitched in as the best indicator. But on the season combined Serrano was at 10.6 K/9 and 2.4 BB/9 and Fairel 7.7 K/9 and 3.1 BB/9 only then we have to sit and toss around the fact that Fairel pitched at higher levels and again at a much younger age. Bottom line too me is I see little difference in their productivity going forward.

Re: Who is Redszone's #24 prospect?

Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo

Fairel yes live, Serrano yes not live (video). Why?

Well you live in Springfield according to your profile so I figured you made it to some Dragons games, but then you kept quoting numbers that you saw rather than things you saw in person. Just curious if you had actually had a chance to see either guy because it sounded like you hadn't.

Re: Who is Redszone's #24 prospect?

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Well you live in Springfield according to your profile so I figured you made it to some Dragons games, but then you kept quoting numbers that you saw rather than things you saw in person. Just curious if you had actually had a chance to see either guy because it sounded like you hadn't.

Well true I have and perhaps I'll get a chance to see Serrano next year but I doubt it, with his age I imagine he'll be aggressively moved, then again that's unusual for this development team but it happens (Mes). That said and while I'll fully admit that seeing a guy in person and to a further extent multiple times gives you a better impression of a guy I don't nor any of us need to see any of them if we get a good scouting report and look at the numbers good and hard. And you frankly gave me nearly enough of a scouting report to come to the conclusion I did, based on what I already knew about him. Of course I'm no fool I learned my lesson on assuming a lack of growth by a player via physical maturity (Fairel) or improved mechanics thru my debates with Cam on Heisey/Henry, he won that debate and in hindsight what I didn't see was Heisey's potential with proper mechanics (increased power). So I'll give that to both you and the OP on the subject that maybe Serrano has something he can improve that will dramatically improve his potential. But short of that I stand firm on the fact that the OP made it out like talking about Fairel was a waste of time when we had (he intimated) a far better pitcher (Serrano) to discuss all based on about 2-3 MPH. Not really that big difference given all the other circumstances we know and/or don't know about them IMO. And at present I don't see the gap that the OP intimated with that post. Of course all this could be for nothing if the OP didn't mean to intimate it but the kind of gives it away. And really why you and I are debating it is strange as we seemingly have a similiar opinion of the 2 when it comes right down to it except you have seen him in person and I haven't.

I would take Serrano's stuff over Fairel's. Not by a ton, but I think his stuff is better. Fairel being a lefty isn't anything. You either get guys out or you don't.

"You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

Re: Who is Redszone's #24 prospect?

And really why you and I are debating it is strange as we seemingly have a similiar opinion of the 2 when it comes right down to it except you have seen him in person and I haven't.

I wasn't debating. I was just curious as to if you had seen them both pitch because I figured you had been to plenty of Dayton games because of where you are from but you talked about both as if you hadn't seen them.

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