Welcome, New Readers! Please Catch Up With the Previous Solution-Intensive Conversations

Everyone, I can't thank you enough for your ongoing encouragement and support; I truly appreciate it. Your support is what made this possible. And here's a special shout-out to my web designers at Educo Web Design. They're nice people to deal with, and they do outstanding work!

I firmly believe that this era is the time of reckoning across the planet. ALL of the issues that have been arrogantly ignored and "blown off" are coming back with a vengeance. From environmental pollution, to the oil dependency that Pres. Carter warned Americans about 30 years ago, to the economy. ALL of it. This reckoning includes Black folks across the globe.

Specifically in terms of African-Americans it includes:

(1) The mass self-hatred and lack of racial pride that we've papered over with slogans about multiculturalism, biracialism, etc. This self-hatred has metastisized into the openly Black-hating statements of creatures like Yung Berg, Ne-Yo, Kimora Lee, Tiger Woods, etc. ALL of this has come back to bite us in the buttocks.

(2) The unaddressed misogyny in the Black collective, which has caused unprecedented levels of violence against Black women and girls. This has metastisized into OPEN, VEHEMENT support for woman-beaters like Chris Brown. Open, vehement support for pedophiles like R.Kelly.This has also morphed into OPEN, VEHEMENT support for BM exploiting and refusing to marry BW. African-Americans' acceptance of unfettered misogyny has accomplished something that even slavery couldn't do: This is what has caused the FINAL DEATH of the African-American family. All of this is the end result of catering to Black men's wounded egos.

(3) The unchallenged anti-intellectualism among the African-American collective. This has morphed into African-Americans lifting up, and celebrating, ignorance and depravity as "acting Black."

(4) The refusal to hold our (mis)leadership class accountable for their failures and trespasses. This has resulted in a current leadership cadre that is filled with jackals, buck-dancing Crossover Negro Politicians who cater to White racists, and impotent tv talking heads [i.e,. the "usual suspects" who are invited to Tavis Smiley's annual book promotion fest].

This is the time and the day when ALL of these things that we've collectively refused to address are coming to a head. All of these things will be the death of most African-Americans. Most African-Americans will form a permanent underclass in this country. The permanent underclass "flood waters" are already around our necks, while our people continue on with business as usual.Those few African-Americans who will survive and thrive despite the flood must start building Arks and/or looking for seats on somebody else's Ark. Right now!

Let's also be clear about the fact that African-American women are utterly ALONE in carrying the "I've got to narrow my options in order to maintain what I've been told is racial loyalty" banners. This topic was explored with the the following post, "An Open Letter To African-American Women Who PUBLICLY State That They Would Never Date/Marry Outside The Race: A Reader's Money Quote From Felicia." http://muslimbushido.blogspot.com/2009/06/open-letter-to-african-american-women.html

In terms of detailed solutions, that's what we've BEEN talking about here! LOL! For those who are unfamiliar with this blog, I suggest you start with the following solution-intensive posts and discussions:

Well...As Nietzsche observed, "The higher we soar, the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly."{more chuckling} Personally, I'm looking forward to reaching the vanishing point in relation to my haters. LOL!

I have a question, if you don't mind answering. I understand the concept of divestment but what is the end game? Do black women just become a separate community of just women? Will other ethnic groups be willing to deal with a community of just women? I don't see whites(or any other group) accepting black women into their communites and bedrooms en masse. Some clarification would be helpful.

I'm going to play along and assume (for the moment) that you're not a troll of some sort.

You asked, "I understand the concept of divestment but what is the end game? Do black women just become a separate community of just women? Will other ethnic groups be willing to deal with a community of just women? I don't see whites(or any other group) accepting black women into their communites and bedrooms en masse. Some clarification would be helpful."Why is this so mysterious ONLY in terms of BW? I notice that NOBODY ever asks these sorts of questions of the droves of BM who mate with and marry non-Black women.What has been the "end game" for the droves of BM who mated and married out? Who ever said anything about "a separate community of just women?" Did the droves of BM who mated and married out form a "separate community of just" men?

I would think that BW's experiences would in many ways be parallel to those of the droves of BM who have mated and married out.

"What has been the "end game" for the droves of BM who mated and married out? "

Only about 9% of black men are married out. I'm of the opinion that black men are just hardly getting married at all. Apparently many are taking advantage of the myriad of sexual options available to them. However, is that black women want pursue? What's our end game?

Thanks for quoting Nietzche...since you know I fancied myself as somewhat of a Nietzche Jr. since my early teen years! *wide grins*

I concur with the position of the reader who stated that we should be solution-focused. I don't even go to blogs where people are constructing completely IGNORANT rebuttals and linking to my blog or naming me.

Yesterday at my blog, I presented a seven-part Emergency Response Plan for black women - borrowed from the U.S. government's plan of action after 911.

NO ONE has stated that black women would isolate themselves. Black women can enter society at ALL levels and be participative at all levels. They don't need to be in all-black residential areas to do so.

Divestment has nothing to do with interracial dating and mating and if that occurs, that's just a natural sequence.

Again, I don't understand why this is so mysterious ONLY in terms of BW. What is the "end game" for the BM who left Black residential areas and social environments to pursue their aspirations?

The end game is what many BW want (which is the same as what many other women want): To live in a safe environment. To have a reasonable opportunity for a wholesome, healthy marriage and LEGITIMATE family of one's own. To pursue self-actualization. These things are not available in Black residential areas. They are also not available in all-Black social environments. This really isn't a mystery.___________________

Hello there, Lisa!

Ahh...yes, Nietzche. LOL!

Yes, I also prefer solution-focused conversations. That's been the point of most of the discussions here. I saw your "Emergency Response Plan" for BW post. It was another one of your trademark, outstanding, "deeper than deep" essays. *Smile* I always have to take time to digest your essays----they give a LOT of food for thought. I'll be back over at your place after I've had a chance to reflect on your latest post.

The answers to BW's collective challenges/problems are all connected. There are a multiplicity of things that we must do if we are going to survive AND thrive.

Some of these things are external (find healthier social environments, and quality people). Some of these things are internal (discard distorted thought patterns in exchange for healthier ones---I've talked about this angle during the "Inner Slum" and "Inner Sanctuary" series of posts).

However, I would set an initial priority on escaping external threats to one's life. A person can't work on their mind or character if they are dead. Once peole get out from under life-threatening environments, then they can spend more effort on cleansing their hearts and minds.

For example, there may very well be people that are already telling the person life-saving information, but they can't receive the information because they're too busy "hating on" that person. We've discussed this while discussing AA class issues. Particularly during the post entitled "Self-Purification: Run From Hateration and Arrogance" dated 1/25/09.

We've had a number of heated conversations about very difficult issues. However, this is part of process of seeking clarity.

There are things happening where I could see many non-Black communities trying to re-impose some sort of segregation. There are powers that be that will not let anyone have a good neighborhood, government programs that keep bringing the worst element into decent neighborhoods. People can only take so much. So how can Black women and their children divest when soon many communities will not want any Black people in the their community.

I'll continue to play along (for now). You and Wondering (assuming for the moment that you're not the same person) are speaking a lot of LEARNED HELPLESSNESS. AAs do this a lot. It's one of the distorted mental habits that keeps us on the bottom. This mass learned helplessness was discussed in the 10/31/08 post "The Inner Sanctuary, Part 3: Decide to Beat the Curve."Instead of looking for (sometimes readily available) answers, AAs are creative in finding self-imposed barriers to freedom. This is a slavery-based mindset. With the living examples of Blacks that have already escaped Black residential areas, you're talking as if BW are PHYSICALLY locked-into cages within these neighborhoods.

What I find so bizarre about this is that our ancestors weren't so mentally helpless. That's why I mentioned the examples of "Pap" Singleton and the Exodusters in the first "Going to Kansas" post. Former slaves in the 1870s managed to escape the South. Maybe we should take a closer look at how they made it out of the South. And here folks are in the 21st century talking about "how can we divest"?Again, just ask all the BM who have already divested and left Black residential areas. This is not a mystery.

There's also the peculiar, Borg-like AA belief that there can't be a solution for any one of us until there's a solution for all 35 or so million of us. All any one BW needs is a solution for herself and her closest loved ones who are willing to survive and thrive.

Much of this boils down to the will to live well. Either people seek out ways to survive and thrive, OR they can remain behind with the soon-to-be permanent Black underclass. Nobody else can supply the will to live well for another person. That's something that each woman has to cultivate for herself.I've already escaped. I know other BW who have escaped Black residential killing fields. Several of the blog readers have explained how they escaped. One reader divested (Beverly from one of the Reader's Money Quote posts) and made it all the way to France to follow her dreams.

I hope you find the will to find ways to live well. If not, then no amount of information can help you.

I would really appreciate it if you would stop by the Sweet Potato Pie blog, read the post that Tracy mentioned, and give her friend Tamika some words of support and encouragement.

So many BW are dealing with situations where we've been left "holding the bag" for all sorts of family burdens. And so many of us have situations where relatives leave us to carry these family burdens "by our d*** selves" (as one of my coworkers puts it). So many BW are care providers without being offered the relief of being a care recipient. For some, not even once in their lives.

This far too common (for AA women) scenario makes me extremely angry. It makes me want to fight back. It probably makes you want to fight back as well. One way we can fight back is by taking the time to extend kindness to each other. By being supportive when we have the opportunity to do so.

This is one of those opportunities.

Please take the time to extend some concern and encouragement to Tracy's friend Tamika. May God bless you for doing so.

"Oprah is a fully-divested black woman... there is NOTHING AT ALL that she requires from the black community to remain self-actualized.

Condi is a fully-divested black woman...there is NOTHING AT ALL that she requires from the black community to remain self-actualized.

I can name countless other black women who are in the public eye who have fully divested."

Another divested(I'm not sure in which instances one can use the word "fully"), sister is Janet Langhart, married to former Sectretary of Defense William Cohen. Black women (AA in particular, as this is the group that seems to fall for the guilt trips the most) need to see examples of other BW who have divested and are living healthy, successful, fulfilling lives._____________________

"There's also the peculiar, Borg-like AA belief that there can't be a solution for any one of us until there's a solution for all 35 or so million of us. All any one BW needs is a solution for herself and her closest loved ones who are willing to survive and thrive."

This is similar to alot of BW one encounters on these blogs. They'd make comments along the lines of "I have sons of my own, am I not also divesting from them?"

If one moves to a safe neighbourhood, are they going to leave their kids behind? If one starts living a more fulfilling, rewarding life, are their children not also going to benefit? It's come to a point where I realise that alot of these women are damaged themselves, and want to keep/pull other women in the same cesspool that they dwell in. They see this damaged behaviour in their sons, so know that their sons are already on the way to growing up to be the sort of males we warn other BW about. Those whose children aren't like that want to protect them. Others who have passed this damaged mindset onto their kids, or raised them around other damaged folks know that the problem isn't protecting their children. It's protecting OTHER people from them and their children!

That's why I always give a side eye when I hear a BW protesting cases of negroes getting bitten because they were foolish(Jena 6, Genarlow Wilson, etc) and she comes out with....."I have sons of my own, they could be next." Really? You have sons who would act like these fools? And you aren't ashamed to say it?!_____________________

"I hope you find the will to find ways to live well. If not, then no amount of information can help you."

Don't mean to be rude, but this is the only reply that was necessary! Some folks just want to chit chat to stop you from doing real work. There are countless discussions that have taken place on this very issue here on this blog, WAOD, and the series that Rev Lisa did. I'm yet to come across a question that cannot be answered on one's own if they actually bothered to read them all. I may be wrong, but I smelled tRoLl right from the first line. Just sayin'!

You said, "Black women (AA in particular, as this is the group that seems to fall for the guilt trips the most) need to see examples of other BW who have divested and are living healthy, successful, fulfilling lives."This is true. This is probably the reason why Evia and others are diligent about posting so many pictures of such women.

You said, "If one moves to a safe neighbourhood, are they going to leave their kids behind? If one starts living a more fulfilling, rewarding life, are their children not also going to benefit? It's come to a point where I realise that alot of these women are damaged themselves, and want to keep/pull other women in the same cesspool that they dwell in. They see this damaged behaviour in their sons, so know that their sons are already on the way to growing up to be the sort of males we warn other BW about. Those whose children aren't like that want to protect them."I'm coming to the same conclusion.You said, "Some folks just want to chit chat to stop you from doing real work. There are countless discussions that have taken place on this very issue here on this blog, WAOD, and the series that Rev Lisa did. I'm yet to come across a question that cannot be answered on one's own if they actually bothered to read them all. I may be wrong, but I smelled tRoLl right from the first line.""tRoLl"? {chuckling} I like that. That's funny. Yes, I smelled the tRoLl stench as well. However, I try to err on the side of being patient with those who might be truly confused.Peace, blessings and solidarity.

It's come to a point where I realise that alot of these women are damaged themselves, and want to keep/pull other women in the same cesspool that they dwell in. They see this damaged behaviour in their sons, so know that their sons are already on the way to growing up to be the sort of males we warn other BW about.

Those whose children aren't like that want to protect them. Others who have passed this damaged mindset onto their kids, or raised them around other damaged folks know that the problem isn't protecting their children. It's protecting OTHER people from them and their children!

My reply:

Or they feel incredibly guilty, because of what their children have become (or might become in the future) and realizing that they have raised the dangers in everyone's midst!

The guilt keeps them bound to their children and fearful that their children will no longer have the unconditional love and support that other black women have been guilt-tripped into giving them!

Or because they are caught in the "raise their daughters but love their sons" mindset, and see their sons solely as potential victims and never perpetrators, they can't imagine they might need to at some point engage in some judgment and consider tough love for their bad-behaving sons!

Yet, at the same time, by raising their daughtes, they might have given them tough love from the beginning, never cutting them any slack, and thus forcing them to "act right," their daughters are less likely to get into trouble, while their sons to become and remain troublesome.

Don't mean to be rude, but this is the only reply that was necessary! Some folks just want to chit chat to stop you from doing real work. There are countless discussions that have taken place on this very issue here on this blog, WAOD, and the series that Rev Lisa did. I'm yet to come across a question that cannot be answered on one's own if they actually bothered to read them all. I may be wrong, but I smelled tRoLl right from the first line. Just sayin'!

Thanks for that facist line; no toleration of questioning or dissent right? My point was, I'm not trading black men and their problems for white supremacy in the white community. Maybe you don't know many white men but they are often no better than black men: male privilege plus white skin privilege. I'm all for divestment but we better prepared for the racism of the white community; it sure as hell hasn't gone away. I plan on moving to a multi racial setting. Hopefully i can avoid the death of the ghetto and the white power of the suburbs.

Hello, been away for the past week and a half (had loads of work to do) so just came online a few hours ago and have seen the madness (a la WAOD). I was unfortunately too late in the last thread as I was not able to comment before you closed the comments section but I'll save my comments concerning all that for another time (if it comes up again).

I will not lie, when I read wondering/also wondering's (their writing style seemed quite similar)comments, I just thought "TROLL". If you remeber, a few posts ago, Rev. Lisa was talking about people who want to be spoonfed even the most obvious things.

If this particular commenter was really interested in the divestment issue, wouldn't they have read the posts that have been made explaining them? You, Rev.Lisa and some other bloggers have written and had discussions about this already. The questions the commenter asked could easily have been answered if they looked at any of the posts that have been written.

I also want to touch on what jalilimaster said. I've seen quite a number of black women online saying that they have black sons so wouldn't them divesting be 'abandoning' their sons. I'm like 'what the heck?'. When you take yourself out of a danger zone into a place that's safe for you, wouldn't you take your kids with you (unless ofcourse if they are grown themselves)? A black woman making decisions that are best for her and that enable her to thrive and succeed will benefit any child she has. I do not know why this is so hard for some people to comprehend.

"Thanks for that facist line; no toleration of questioning or dissent right? My point was, I'm not trading black men and their problems for white supremacy in the white community. Maybe you don't know many white men but they are often no better than black men: male privilege plus white skin privilege. I'm all for divestment but we better prepared for the racism of the white community; it sure as hell hasn't gone away. I plan on moving to a multi racial setting. Hopefully i can avoid the death of the ghetto and the white power of the suburbs."

@ khadija,This is something else I have noticed. These 'anti-divestment for black women' people first try to use the age old guilt trips to prevent black women from divesting. They come out with nonsense like "I ain't never gonna leave bruthas", "so wouldn't I also be abandoning my sons", "I will never give up on the black community/black love" etc. They barely talk about what is actually being discussed i.e. -black women making decisions that will give them the best in life-black women withdrawing support from those who do not support us-black women taking themselves out of danger zones.etc

Instead they choose to accuse us of abandoning/betraying/giving up on etc.

When that doesn't work, they make it about interracial relationships or non-black people and how every race has problems. In the comment I posted above (by wondering), she decides to take it from being about black men to being about white men.

@ wondering,what does black women divesting have to do with white men?who asked you to trade any of your problems?what does black women making the choices that guarantee them the best in life have to do with white men or problems in the white community?

You said, "Thanks for that facist line; no toleration of questioning or dissent right?"

It's not about "questioning or dissent." The "this smells like tRoLl stench" reaction is based on what sound like bad-faith questions.

There are the numerous examples of BM who have left Black residential areas and social circles. But despite these numerous examples that we have seen for DECADES, your questions make divesting sound like interstellar travel to unknown planets.

Given these numerous examples of BM who have divested and went on to live NORMAL lives (i.e., the did NOT form "separate communities" of BM-only, or any of the other peculiar, implausible questions you raised), it makes one wonder about the motives for your odd-sounding questions.You said, "My point was, I'm not trading black men and their problems for white supremacy in the white community. Maybe you don't know many white men but they are often no better than black men: male privilege plus white skin privilege."

Again, this reaction is quite odd in the context of incidents such as Dunbar Village, the Hovey Street murders, Nailah Franklin, Alexis Goggins, the daily street harassment that BW face in Black residential areas, etc. And these are just the semi-publicized incidents. All sorts of things are happening to BW in Black residential areas as we speak.You said, "I'm all for divestment but we better prepared for the racism of the white community; it sure as hell hasn't gone away."

Again, this is odd (= suspicious). What makes you think that BW aren't ALREADY dealing with racism? The way you've phrased this makes it sound as if BW are somehow insulated from racism as long as they live/socialize in Black constructs. NOT. Don't you remember recurring incidents like the "Bring a Light-Skinned Woman" parties, etc? BW (particularly dark-skinned BW) are being discriminated against in all-Black settings right now.You said, "I plan on moving to a multi racial setting. Hopefully i can avoid the death of the ghetto and the white power of the suburbs."

What makes you think that so-called "multi-racial" settings are innoculated from racism/White supremacy? This is the problem with the "Why don't BW expand their horizons to include other 'men of color' ONLY" thinking. Other so-called people of color are often as racist as White racists, AND they are also often as color-struck as BM.

There are difficulties and trade-offs everywhere one goes.

It's not that there's anything wrong or suspicious about asking questions. The "tRoLl stench" is coming from the skewed, and downright peculiar, assumptions that seem to be underlying your questions.Peace, blessings and solidarity.

Lisa said, "Opponents of the collective advancement of black women will always use the "bait and switch" tactic in discussions: "I'm supportive of black women desiring collective progress BUT..." is a common statement you will hear. Note that the word "but" (or "however") will always signal the bait and switch.

The bait was the expression of counterfeit solidarity.The switch will consist of one of the tactics that I have outlined in Step Four of the emergency response plan."

In addition to the "I'm all for freedom, but how can we possibly be free due to ____________?" question pattern, I'm fascinated by how STRANGE these questions are. I'm still trying to grasp the connection between divestment and the imaginary "separate community of just women."

I could see these sorts of reactions if we were discussing something where there was NO living, visible model to extrapolate from (such as interstellar travel). But we have watched countless BM divest for decades. This is not mysterious, uncharted territory.

You said, "I don't see how divestment can be a bad thing. And the boogeyman is not going to come out of the woodworks and attack anyone. I always get the impression that some folks are bent out in scaring the daylight out of black women with this nonsense of "how difficult it is going to be being away from the community, etc.."

Yes, this is quite strange. Meanwhile, the (Black) boogeyman IS currently killing, raping, and beating BW left and right in Black residential areas!You said, "Women of other ethnic groups move to other regions and foreign countries to study,live and work. I know of women who come to the States precisely to get married...I worked with two Austrian women who came to NY city on a work visa. The Austrian women wanted to stay here permanently so they went on a dating spree with white American men."

{loud laughter} Yes, OTHER women know what to do to secure their future happiness!You said, "It so happened that the white men they dated were not really interested in them. The women concluded that black men would take them seriously so they began dating black men.

They were correct because very quickly one of them met and married an African man from a very prominent, elite family. The second Austrian woman is still dating black men."

{more laughter} Yes, everybody ELSE has caught the hint. Other people have NO problem admitting "what time it is" in order to get where they want to be in life.Ana, I think you're right. Watching other BF inmates escape into better lives will probably encourage the remaining BF inmates to get a clue. Nobody likes being left behind.

I think these are good posts for all of us to review. I remember being resistant to the idea of being able to leave when I first read the "Kansas" post. I get it now and the shift in perspective has been very beneficial!!

Yes, it does feel like we've all travelled quite a distance from our earlier conversations. And not just here, I feel the same way about the conversations over at Rev. Lisa's house. At the beginning, I was extremely resistant to her calls for introspection.

I've learned so much from your input, and that of other readers. For me, the conversations with the readers are what makes this beneficial.

When we come together and reason together is when great progress is made. THANK YOU for enriching these conversations with your participation!

It is important that you provided the "teaching moments" that were necessary when dealing with Internet Tyler Perrys! Yes...we have plenty of the droppings of ITPs (male bloggers who are very poorly-disguised as women) and who THINK that their deception is actually working for them.

{yawn}

I've had them at my blog forum and I don't call them OUT just because I can USE THEIR FOOLISHNESS to teach other women.

I think that it is necessary to ask these "I'm soooo deeply confused so allow me to pose a few questions" bloggers if they have EVEN READ your series or my series.

If their answer is "no, I haven't", then NO further time with explanations are even needed with them because they are clearly choosing to step into the conversation UNPREPARED.

Coming to serious discussions WITHOUT reading the material wastes everyone's time. We don't have to condone that mentality.

These folks seem to want to AVOID taking the time to study the material that has been prepared so they want to show up in these comment sections slyly asking for the "Cliff Notes".

NOPE. A cup of deception and a cup of manipulation can not be added to the pot!

"Thanks for that facist line; no toleration of questioning or dissent right? My point was, I'm not trading black men and their problems for white supremacy in the white community. Maybe you don't know many white men but they are often no better than black men: male privilege plus white skin privilege. I'm all for divestment but we better prepared for the racism of the white community; it sure as hell hasn't gone away. I plan on moving to a multi racial setting. Hopefully i can avoid the death of the ghetto and the white power of the suburbs."Sounds like you're the one with little exposure to white people.

You mentioned "Internet Tyler Perrys"--(male bloggers who are very poorly-disguised as women).

{loud laughter}

Yes, I think I will take a more stern line with these types of trolls in the future. It's funny, a reader emailed me to say that she's starting to be able to distinguish one troll from another with these "I'm soooo deeply confused" comments. LOL!

As a matter of fact, I have my own guesses as to who Wondering/AlsoWondering is. I'm not going to call out any names (NO publicity for trolls, etc.), but I think he's an individual that used to frequent "Black Girls Rule." {more laughter}

"I think that it is necessary to ask these "I'm soooo deeply confused so allow me to pose a few questions" bloggers if they have EVEN READ your series or my series.

If their answer is "no, I haven't", then NO further time with explanations are even needed with them because they are clearly choosing to step into the conversation UNPREPARED.

Coming to serious discussions WITHOUT reading the material wastes everyone's time. We don't have to condone that mentality."

To the poster that goes by the nameof 'WOndering/Also wondering', my only reply to your reply to my original post can be seen in Rev Lisa's post above. If that makes me a fascist, then I'll change my name to Mussolini!

Absolutely love your site and look forward to reading your book. I will actively pass on all of this information. All PC aside I laugh at a lot of what you write because it is absolute common sense...it almost feels INSANE that is has to be said to Black women. I cry for what Black women do to themselves. What Black women will put up with is atrocious and build out of fear and being a sheep.I am married to a Black man whom I know is an exception to what appears to be the rule. I only say this because I have friend who are beautiful, intelligent , dark, feminine etc.etc. who limit themselves with the "Black Community", Black men and the Black church. God Bless YOU! Black is beautiful. I pray that Black Women WAKE UP.