5.1 should have more dailies iirc so the variety will increase even more. When it comes down to doing dailies for just the coins there will be a lot of options. I for one will for example definitely skip that stupid daily in the Vale where you kill 30 spirits or kill 4 of those giant beetles in DW. I'll just do something for anglers or cloud serpent or something instead for coins.

Sure and as I've said all along if the current iteration of LFR is as easy as DS then were good. I have no problem with that. You do however. I'm not sure why you think you can use DS as an example but then in that other post you made rail about how shitty DS was.

My point remains. Guys like you screamed it was to easy, they made it harder, it didn't work out, Blizzard responded. Now guys like you are screaming the same shit over again and just like in early cata theyll release a blog detailing why they did what they did and then things will change.

The only point they made it harder was early cata, which they reverted right afterwards. The reason I'm bringing up DS is because, DS is the only raid ever before MoP that has ever had a LFR. You claim it was too hard for people, both I and Blizzard disagree. I'm not screaming for anything to become harder, I'm saying that it's impossible to make LFR any easier while keeping it as a raid. If it's any easier then as I said before, you might as well solo it because the rest 24 might be afk.

Sure and as I've said all along if the current iteration of LFR is as easy as DS then were good. I have no problem with that. You do however. I'm not sure why you think you can use DS as an example but then in that other post you made rail about how shitty DS was.

My point remains. Guys like you screamed it was to easy, they made it harder, it didn't work out, Blizzard responded. Now guys like you are screaming the same shit over again and just like in early cata theyll release a blog detailing why they did what they did and then things will change.

I'm still unsure if we agree on stuff or we disagree on stuff. o_o
Seems we share some pov at least

---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 11:26 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Chaozu

The only point they made it harder was early cata, which they reverted right afterwards. The reason I'm bringing up DS is because, DS is the only raid ever before MoP that has ever had a LFR. You claim it was too hard for people, both I and Blizzard disagree.

I do not remember if he said it was too hard. Didn't he said that it was kinda the right difficulty in a previous post? (don't want to go back and look for it I'm lazy)

The only point they made it harder was early cata, which they reverted right afterwards. The reason I'm bringing up DS is because, DS is the only raid ever before MoP that has ever had a LFR. You claim it was too hard for people, both I and Blizzard disagree.

I don't claim it was to hard. I claimed it was just right. I said people still died on it, so if Blizzard has made it any harder than that it's probably pretty stupid. Just like people still died in wrath heroics. Then they made them harder in cataclysm. Then they made them EVEN EASIER in mists.

I'm not sure how you can infer you think you know the mind of Blizzard just from the fact they didn't add that stacking buff but okay you've got some zen master telepathic direct line to them. Maybe you can tell me what the future is as well?

---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 10:28 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Brazorf

I'm still unsure if we agree on stuff or we disagree on stuff. o_o
Seems we share some pov at least

---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 11:26 AM ----------

I do not remember if he said it was too hard. Didn't he said that it was kinda the right difficulty in a previous post? (don't want to go back and look for it I'm lazy)

Allow me to make it CRYSTAL clear. If LFR is is as easy as DS we are fine. If it's to much harder then DS then that system is stupid, it works against the principle that lfr is meant for people can't raid on the regular to see content and be nerfed into the ground in a short amount of time.

The hammer comes down:

Originally Posted by Osmeric

Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

He said that LFR was too hard since people wipe there, he thinks it should be possible to just smash through it on the first try with a group of 25 randoms.

I said from what I've read Blizzard has made them harder. If you actually go back and read I said DS was the right tuning. Even though people still died in it. That's precisely the point though. DS being as easy as it was people still died. Making it any harder is a bad idea. If the tuning is what DS tuning was were fine. Your going nuts over nothing.

The hammer comes down:

Originally Posted by Osmeric

Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

I don't claim it was to hard. I claimed it was just right. I said people still died on it, so if Blizzard has made it any harder than that it's probably pretty stupid. Just like people still died in wrath heroics. Then they made them harder in cataclysm. Then they made them EVEN EASIER in mists.

I'm not sure how you can infer you think you know the mind of Blizzard just from the fact they didn't add that stacking buff but okay you've got some zen master telepathic direct line to them. Maybe you can tell me what the future is as well?

---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 10:28 AM ----------

Allow me to make it CRYSTAL clear. If LFR is is as easy as DS we are fine. If it's to much harder then DS then that system is stupid, it works against the principle that lfr is meant for people can't raid on the regular to see content and be nerfed into the ground in a short amount of time.

I'm sure LFR is the same difficulty as DS, the reason you heard people wipe there is because they do, because they don't know the fight yet! I said this earlier and you still claimed they had to make it easier.

People wiped lots in DS as well, because they were terrible, doesn't mean they should make it any easier.

Just having to do the 1 cooking daily during Cataclysm for a couple of months made me into a quivering wreck. I can't stomach them. 45 a week is just.. no.

It tells you something that people are already so burnt out on dailies after 1-2 weeks after the expansion. What's it going to be like after a few months, and when the next content patch is just... more dailies?!

Yea I had the exact same thing I actually did them the first 2 weeks and never again same with the JC dailies DM, the tournament dailies in icecrown and even firelands I just went trough it once for the stuff I wanted and never went back there I just cant stomach and being forced doing it everyday for x amount of months to have an optimal rep token gain. And fun part is right now in MOP if you like being self sustaining (proffwise) you need to do it on alts as well because of the rep requirements and those *roosterblocking daily gating* you know what I mean :> on top of that everything is soulbound so I cant even ship my golden lotus rep thingies of to my alt either. Don't even get me started on harmonies.

Originally Posted by Gilian

It is actually really fair that someone who spends more time in the game gets rewarded more.

that's a rather black and white way to put it care to explain this to me then:

take Person A lets call him Ash the pet battle master. This person is a extreme casual person logs maybe 1-2 hours a day doing some dailies and some pet battling before logging of again. hes weekly hours are about 14 hours give or take.

Now take person B lets call him Ragnarok the raid destroyer and rep hoarder. This person works 8 hours a day, barely has 15-30 mins when he gets home to get raid ready. raids about 4 days a week (3 of them during weekdays) after raid he needs pretty much log of again to go to bed so he cant do dailies during those 3 days. This person spends about 4-5 hours online every day with peaks of 8 hours in the weekends this totals about 36 hours minimum per week give or take.

Yet with the direction Blizzard it taking now since the Wrath and the invasion of dailies. Person A will cap the reps and have access to the gear and rewards weeks before person B does.

Now go back to your statement you say that people who spend more time in game should be rewarded more and get rewarded faster then people who dont, yet they dont as a matter of fact person B gets punished in a way and is forced to choose with this current setup. In vanilla and TBC person B would have indeed be rewarded more but nowadays this is not really the case anymore and person A will reap the rewards with ease and laughs his damn ass off.

your logic doesn't really apply anymore to nowadays WoW.

I think a lot of the whine we hear isn't about the fact that dailies take long or are hard or the need to farm the charms. The point is that in a way you are forced to do them everyday even if it only takes an hour there is no way to skip them during the week and then being able to catch up in the weekends or during a vacation when you have more time to spare because you absolutely cant that's the point.
Not to mention it makes it even more tedious for alts because your locked in that same dailies lockout. The older rep farms provided you a choice . Do a little bit everyday (think person A) or if you had time in the weekends (Person B) skip them during the week and during weekends shut your brain out, grab a bag of ships, some cold beers, jack up the music and grind your harts content out for 6 hours to catch up what you missed during the week.

A lot of people have already noted its starting to look like a job even if its just a 30-1h job but its a job nonetheless.

the easiest solution would have been to add a tiny bit of rep to the respective mobs (like the black prince rep currently or fulborg rep back in old vanilla) or to add a repeatable quest then people at least have an alternative if they want to catch up.

Its about having a choice that fits to your play style in combination with your real life limitations.
Its the same reason why people are upset about the celestial/shadopan rep gating behind the golden lotus. This is a serious alt killer for most of them.

take me for example i have an alt that technically only needs celestials and an other alt that only needs shadopan the mere thought I have to grind out 3 weeks of golden lotus dailies for both of them to be even able to start working on what i want for my alts is brainkilling and the fun part is the only reason it took me 2 weeks hitting revered now on my main with golden lotus is because I had a 2 week vacation if I dint had that then it would have taken me twice as long because I am in a similar boat as person B which I described earlier.

It is obviously clear that blizzard is desperately trying to stretch there content to last longer by doing this not to mention there basically setting your pace in spoon feeding what your allowed to do and to achieve on a daily base. The fact that people cant even see this is hilarious tbh.

Gating or caps for some tings are fine I am not debating that and I have no problems with valor caps or justice caps since they provide gear and soon the ability to upgrade gear. but on daily playtime content is just ridicules its like blizzard it trying to say here are your dailies spend 15 mins in this zone and then lol you wont get anything else so GTFO out of here. that is how it feels atm you finish the klaxxi dailies for example and then I dont even go back in to that zone again for the day same with the other hubs as well. Its a wonder they dint put caps on the amount of pat battles your allowed to have or amount of pets your allowed to capture a day -_-.

I'm sure LFR is the same difficulty as DS, the reason you heard people wipe there is because they do, because they don't know the fight yet! I said this earlier and you still claimed they had to make it easier.

People wiped lots in DS as well, because they were terrible, doesn't mean they should make it any easier.

Ehh yes and no. The only thing I remember wiping on regularly was the Madness. Sometimes on spine. People wouldn't single target shit down. The rest of DS was virtually tactic free and you could even ignore the mechanics that did exist. I remember all the groups didn't even bother to kill the oozes on the ooze guy. We just zerged him down. IF current lfr is that tuned hell yea. If it's that tuned then were good.

That's also not what i've been reading about LFR. I've been hearing it's actually harder and requires co-ordination which is stupid honestly. DS lfr required next to none. Requiring co-ordination from 25 people thrown together is asking a bit much. I mean should these random 25 people get on a vent as well?

Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2012-10-10 at 10:35 AM.

The hammer comes down:

Originally Posted by Osmeric

Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

It will take you, on average, about 20 minutes a day to do enough dailies to get your 90 Charms for the weekly.

"Let's get one thing straight. This is not a cheerocracy. I am the cheertator here. I make the cheercisions, and I will deal with the cheeronsequences. Now, if there are no more cheeruptions, we can cheertinue. Thank you."

Ehh yes and no. The only thing I remember wiping on regularly was the Madness. People wouldn't single target shit down. The rest of DS was virtually tactic free and you could even ignore the mechanics that did exist. I remember all the groups didn't even bother to kill the oozes on the ooze guy. We just burst him done. IF current lfr is that tuned hell yea.

I didn't do DS LFR much since it was boring as hell, the runs I was in though we had wipes on every boss at the beginning. When I tried once again a couple of weeks later, I could literally sit down and afk, go do something else, and the boss would still go down. Heard that later on it got worse though because they were carried by raiders who wanted extra loot, and when they had what they wanted it was only the terrible people left so the wipes began again. If they can't even handle something that easy, they don't deserve neither content nor loot.

I didn't do DS LFR much since it was boring as hell, the runs I was in though we had wipes on every boss at the beginning. When I tried once again a couple of weeks later, I could literally sit down and afk, go do something else, and the boss would still go down. Heard that later on it got worse though because they were carried by raiders who wanted extra loot, and when they had what they wanted it was only the terrible people left so the wipes began again. If they can't even handle something that easy, they don't deserve neither content nor loot.

Alright well were in agreement about something. DS LFR is the proper tuning. I'll have to try and get in LFR this week to see if it's the same. Should be itneresting.

The hammer comes down:

Originally Posted by Osmeric

Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

that's a rather black and white way to put it care to explain this to me then:

take Person A lets call him Ash the pet battle master. This person is a extreme casual person logs maybe 1-2 hours a day doing some dailies and some pet battling before logging of again. hes weekly hours are about 14 hours give or take.

Now take person B lets call him Ragnarok the raid destroyer and rep hoarder. This person works 8 hours a day, barely has 15-30 mins when he gets home to get raid ready. raids about 4 days a week (3 of them during weekdays) after raid he needs pretty much log of again to go to bed so he cant do dailies during those 3 days. This person spends about 4-5 hours online every day with peaks of 8 hours in the weekends this totals about 36 hours minimum per week give or take.

Yet with the direction Blizzard it taking now since the Wrath and the invasion of dailies. Person A will cap the reps and have access to the gear and rewards weeks before person B does..

While I see your point you have to take into account that what person A will ever see are factions reward (and maybe some LFG). While person B while slowing down on the reputations will have access to a wider range of gear and/or different rewards through the raids he does 4 times a week.

Player: I'm having bad luck at raid drops! *whine* *whine*
Blizzard: Ok, here's non-raid way to boost chance.
Player: It takes too much time and now that it is there I'm feeling I can't ignore it, make it effortless! *whine* *whine*

Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

Unless of course you don't like repetitive daily cases, in which case it isn't "Have fun!" that Blizzard is saying, they are saying "suck it bitches, you are going to do what we tell you to and like it". Goodbye are the days where you did group content to progress in group content, now you will do your daily quests and like it!

The reason the "look at all this optional content!" never gets a "solution" from Blizzard is because the solution is in your own hands: Don't do the dailies you don't want to do. If you're doing the sort of raiding where you need the best VP and JP pieces RIGHT NOW but can't be bothered to put in time to get them, then buy some crafted stuf for re-evaluate your playstyle.