The argument about taking large game with a 9mm makes about as much sense as hunting one with a Jennings .25 I suppose it holds still enough, that round can probably kill most things, right?

The point, is whenever possible to make a clean kill. Causing needless suffering is not about sportsmanship, or the sign of a good hunter.

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My point is that no one thinks twice about using a bow and arrow, but using a .40 caliber handgun makes you an inhumane sob. If a 20 gram arrow at 315 fps can kill a deer, a 180 grain XTP at 1000 fps will too.

A poacher can kill a deer with a .22LR. I'm not advocating the handgun as a pirmary weapon. It's for short range applications. Im not pulling it the G23 for a 55 yard broadside shot.

My point is that no one thinks twice about using a bow and arrow, but using a .40 caliber handgun makes you an inhumane sob. If a 20 gram arrow at 315 fps can kill a deer, a 180 grain XTP at 1000 fps will too.

A poacher can kill a deer with a .22LR. I'm not advocating the handgun as a pirmary weapon. It's for short range applications. Im not pulling it the G23 for a 55 yard broadside shot.

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A poacher can take one by shooting it through the eye with a .22lr. I know, because my grandfather kept food on the table durring the Depression that way. However, it isn't the Depression. Adeqauate hunting weapons and ammo are not outrageously expensive and available.

The smallest semi-auto I would take for a broadside shot to a deer would be a 10mm. At least you are getting .41 caliber ballistics, especially if it is loaded properly.

But, there is no way I would consider taking my G17 out and popping rounds at deer.

Neither.
Personally I wouldn't consider anything less than a 357 mag or a 10mm for deer.

44 mag would be my handgun caliber of choice for close range work.
They hit something like a 30 30 carbine close up.

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A 9mm loaded to full potential isn't too far behind a .357 Mag out of weapons with similar barrel lengths. Underwood is hitting 1300 fps from a G19 with 124 gold dots. Not too far from .357 mag velocity from a 4 inch gun.

IME the .41 mag gets the job done well when loaded down a bit with a 210-220 Gn KSWC. I go for 1,200 fps and it is good to as far as any hangun in my hands, which puts a t a 10mm in the ballpark, with a 200 gn so for me they are a wash. Ironically I have to handload the .41 down and the 10 up from common factory loads.

A 9mm loaded to full potential isn't too far behind a .357 Mag out of weapons with similar barrel lengths. Underwood is hitting 1300 fps from a G19 with 124 gold dots. Not too far from .357 mag velocity from a 4 inch gun.

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I've shot hot 9mm. I own a Smith 686 .357 magnum. The two aren't even comparible.

Have you seen what modern pistol bullets will withstand? XTP bullets are tough. The modern bonded bullets hold together well too. Deer are thin skinned game. I think it's Winchester that is making .223 ammo for deer now. A 9mm pistol bullet is plenty tough enough to penetrate to vital organs in the accepted performance window of the cartridge.

If a 9mm can punch through a windshield or car door and still make 12 inches in gel, I think it'll work on a deer with no armor.

Have you seen what modern pistol bullets will withstand? XTP bullets are tough. The modern bonded bullets hold together well too. Deer are thin skinned game. I think it's Winchester that is making .223 ammo for deer now. A 9mm pistol bullet is plenty tough enough to penetrate to vital organs in the accepted performance window of the cartridge.

If a 9mm can punch through a windshield or car door and still make 12 inches in gel, I think it'll work on a deer with no armor.

The loaded weight between the G17 and G23 is not much. The G23 is only an ounce lighter.

The PITA is the size. A full size service pistol needs to be carried on the hip, and it will just get in the way when your gutting and hauling. Compacts and subcompacts are just more comfortable to carry.

Have you seen what modern pistol bullets will withstand? XTP bullets are tough. The modern bonded bullets hold together well too. Deer are thin skinned game. I think it's Winchester that is making .223 ammo for deer now. A 9mm pistol bullet is plenty tough enough to penetrate to vital organs in the accepted performance window of the cartridge.

If a 9mm can punch through a windshield or car door and still make 12 inches in gel, I think it'll work on a deer with no armor.

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