Lonnie Soloff, Indians head athletic trainer, said Miller will spend the next seven to 10 days playing catch and throwing off the mound to see if he can find a new way to control and command the baseball. If not, he will undergo surgery on the finger that will cost him this season and, perhaps, his career.

Man. I feel so bad for that kid. As frustrating as it is for us as fans, I'm sure that isn't one tenth the frustration that Adam feels himself. Poor kid. Hopefully he can do it because that would just be too bad for that arm and that talent to go down the drain from one damned finger.

Why didn't Miller have this surgery last year? If you remember, at the time, Miller had a hole in the finger that was leaking fluid. The surgery performed by Dr. Tom Graham sealed that hole and repaired one of the pulleys. But Graham could not do the reconstruction because of the risk of infection brought about by the hole.

Obviously, this is a very complicated issue -- one I'll do my best to explain in a story on Indians.com in a little bit. But the gist of it is that Miller threw a bullpen session this morning that was so wild that the Indians' training and coaching staffs have reason to question whether he will be able to adjust enought to be a competitive professional pitcher. It's a sad -- and I'm sure frustrating -- state of affairs for the 24-year-old once known as one of baseball's top prospects.

tribefan333 wrote:That's a damn shame. I know people can be frustrated, but you have to feel for this kid.

Best of luck to him.

My thoughs exactly. The kid has a God given gift that many of us would kill for & something like this derails it. I hope he can buck the odds & still have a major league career, even if it's not for another year or 2.

If the Dolans owned BP, they'd give promotions to everyone responsible for the oil spill.

This really sucks. Not for the Indians, but for Miller. Very, very unfortunate for him and I feel for him. I know how hard he worked to come back last year and this offseason, but looks like the fat lady is warming up to call it a career for him. Damn.

This really sucks. Not for the Indians, but for Miller. Very, very unfortunate for him and I feel for him. I know how hard he worked to come back last year and this offseason, but looks like the fat lady is warming up to call it a career for him. Damn.

+1

This doesn't seem like something he could've avoided with working out. Just bad luck and a fragile body I guess.

now this is purely speculation on my part, as i have no idea about anything when it comes to medical matters, nor on what it takes to be a major league pitcher, but i just can't help but wonder what might happen to miller after all is said and done that they needed to take some other sort of drastic measures and let's say "amputate" his chronically-injured middle finger???

i know that sounds just a bit morbid, but bear with me here and let me explain.

when tommy john first blew out his elbow, it was a pretty radical idea to even consider transplanting another ligament from another part of the body to replace the one that was blown out. 25 years later, it has become so commonplace, they do the surgery within an hour and the pitcher comes back better than ever in about a year.

former indians pitcher blob dickman not only had the tommy john surgery done, he also had a portion of one of his fingers amputated in a childhood farming incident that actually helped him throw a sinking fastball that made it so he couldn't even throw the ball straight if he wanted to. love him or hate him, the fact still remains that blob is the indians all-time career leader in saves and he saved a then single-season record of 45 games for the tribe in 2005 just 2 years after he had the tommy john surgery.

now then, one of the largest growing segments of the plastic surgery business is "toe removal surgery" in which women are actually having one of their toes removed (either their middle toe or their ring toe) so that they can fit into these ever more increasingly smaller pointy-toed shoes. it is my understanding that it actually makes it not only easier to fit into their shoes, but it also gives them better balance on the more spikier heels too.

furthermore, when that former so-called "one-armed pitcher" jim abbott was pitching for the angels and yankees, he often said that the only reason he threw left-handed was because he didn't have a right hand and so it just basically forced him to throw left-handed. so in other words, he (pardon the pun) adjusted to the hand he was dealt. at times, you could probably even say that he was better than most other normal-bodied pitchers. shoot, he even threw a no-hitter against the tribe in 1993.

i also have a friend who had 2 fingers on his hand cut off by an auger. while it certainly caused him to be disabled from his job, he actually is much better off now as he is a member of a professional fishing tour now and it's because he is missing those 2 fingers that he is now able to grip his rod and reel in a manner that people with all 5 fingers just can't and so it gives him a real competitive advantage and he has won many fishing tournaments and won a lot of money doing it too.

the point i'm trying to make here is that even with a disability, these people all seemed able to compensate for their problems and are actually better because of it. so why couldn't miller do the same??? i gotta believe that he could probably throw a mean split-fingered fastball or a change-up like nobody else before him then. i can just picture those old espn commercials that had the big unit randy johnson throwing something he called "the crazy ball"??? miller could call it his "star trek ball" or his "vulcan nerve pitch". hee-hee!!!

no but seriously though, don't get me wrong now. i would much rather see that miller keeps all his fingers intact and the tribe doctors finally get a handle on his problem, but if the worst possible scenario occurs, all may not be lost after all. we can only hope.

davemanddd wrote:now this is purely speculation on my part, as i have no idea about anything when it comes to medical matters, nor on what it takes to be a major league pitcher, but i just can't help but wonder what might happen to miller after all is said and done that they needed to take some other sort of drastic measures and let's say "amputate" his chronically-injured middle finger???

i know that sounds just a bit morbid, but bear with me here and let me explain.

when tommy john first blew out his elbow, it was a pretty radical idea to even consider transplanting another ligament from another part of the body to replace the one that was blown out. 25 years later, it has become so commonplace, they do the surgery within an hour and the pitcher comes back better than ever in about a year.

former indians pitcher blob dickman not only had the tommy john surgery done, he also had a portion of one of his fingers amputated in a childhood farming incident that actually helped him throw a sinking fastball that made it so he couldn't even throw the ball straight if he wanted to. love him or hate him, the fact still remains that blob is the indians all-time career leader in saves and he saved a then single-season record of 45 games for the tribe in 2005 just 2 years after he had the tommy john surgery.

now then, one of the largest growing segments of the plastic surgery business is "toe removal surgery" in which women are actually having one of their toes removed (either their middle toe or their ring toe) so that they can fit into these ever more increasingly smaller pointy-toed shoes. it is my understanding that it actually makes it not only easier to fit into their shoes, but it also gives them better balance on the more spikier heels too.

furthermore, when that former so-called "one-armed pitcher" jim abbott was pitching for the angels and yankees, he often said that the only reason he threw left-handed was because he didn't have a right hand and so it just basically forced him to throw left-handed. so in other words, he (pardon the pun) adjusted to the hand he was dealt. at times, you could probably even say that he was better than most other normal-bodied pitchers. shoot, he even threw a no-hitter against the tribe in 1993.

i also have a friend who had 2 fingers on his hand cut off by an auger. while it certainly caused him to be disabled from his job, he actually is much better off now as he is a member of a professional fishing tour now and it's because he is missing those 2 fingers that he is now able to grip his rod and reel in a manner that people with all 5 fingers just can't and so it gives him a real competitive advantage and he has won many fishing tournaments and won a lot of money doing it too.

the point i'm trying to make here is that even with a disability, these people all seemed able to compensate for their problems and are actually better because of it. so why couldn't miller do the same??? i gotta believe that he could probably throw a mean split-fingered fastball or a change-up like nobody else before him then. i can just picture those old espn commercials that had the big unit randy johnson throwing something he called "the crazy ball"??? miller could call it his "star trek ball" or his "vulcan nerve pitch". hee-hee!!!

no but seriously though, don't get me wrong now. i would much rather see that miller keeps all his fingers intact and the tribe doctors finally get a handle on his problem, but if the worst possible scenario occurs, all may not be lost after all. we can only hope.

go tribe!!!

Good news Dave. This just in; Shapiro read your post and inked Larry Flynt to an all small letter contract. Also has an interest in the drummer for Def Leppard. Too bad he missed the boat on Chris Reeves.

If he can't use his middle finger, he can't pitch. End of story. He has a better chance of learning to throw left handed at that point. If he had always been missing it, maybe, but not now. How would he throw a curveball? Or a sinker. Or a changeup. Straight 4 seamer, he may be able to command, but that's it. Tough break.

Actually, there was a guy named Mordecai "Three-finger" Brown who won 238 games for the Cubs with missing digits. He, and his strange deadly curveball, completely dominated to the tune of a 2.06 ERA (3rd all time).

So hey... ...I for one welcome Adam "Three-Finger" Miller to the rotation.

davemanddd wrote:now this is purely speculation on my part, as i have no idea about anything when it comes to medical matters, nor on what it takes to be a major league pitcher, but i just can't help but wonder what might happen to miller after all is said and done that they needed to take some other sort of drastic measures and let's say "amputate" his chronically-injured middle finger???

i know that sounds just a bit morbid, but bear with me here and let me explain.

when tommy john first blew out his elbow, it was a pretty radical idea to even consider transplanting another ligament from another part of the body to replace the one that was blown out. 25 years later, it has become so commonplace, they do the surgery within an hour and the pitcher comes back better than ever in about a year.

former indians pitcher blob dickman not only had the tommy john surgery done, he also had a portion of one of his fingers amputated in a childhood farming incident that actually helped him throw a sinking fastball that made it so he couldn't even throw the ball straight if he wanted to. love him or hate him, the fact still remains that blob is the indians all-time career leader in saves and he saved a then single-season record of 45 games for the tribe in 2005 just 2 years after he had the tommy john surgery.

now then, one of the largest growing segments of the plastic surgery business is "toe removal surgery" in which women are actually having one of their toes removed (either their middle toe or their ring toe) so that they can fit into these ever more increasingly smaller pointy-toed shoes. it is my understanding that it actually makes it not only easier to fit into their shoes, but it also gives them better balance on the more spikier heels too.

furthermore, when that former so-called "one-armed pitcher" jim abbott was pitching for the angels and yankees, he often said that the only reason he threw left-handed was because he didn't have a right hand and so it just basically forced him to throw left-handed. so in other words, he (pardon the pun) adjusted to the hand he was dealt. at times, you could probably even say that he was better than most other normal-bodied pitchers. shoot, he even threw a no-hitter against the tribe in 1993.

i also have a friend who had 2 fingers on his hand cut off by an auger. while it certainly caused him to be disabled from his job, he actually is much better off now as he is a member of a professional fishing tour now and it's because he is missing those 2 fingers that he is now able to grip his rod and reel in a manner that people with all 5 fingers just can't and so it gives him a real competitive advantage and he has won many fishing tournaments and won a lot of money doing it too.

the point i'm trying to make here is that even with a disability, these people all seemed able to compensate for their problems and are actually better because of it. so why couldn't miller do the same??? i gotta believe that he could probably throw a mean split-fingered fastball or a change-up like nobody else before him then. i can just picture those old espn commercials that had the big unit randy johnson throwing something he called "the crazy ball"??? miller could call it his "star trek ball" or his "vulcan nerve pitch". hee-hee!!!

no but seriously though, don't get me wrong now. i would much rather see that miller keeps all his fingers intact and the tribe doctors finally get a handle on his problem, but if the worst possible scenario occurs, all may not be lost after all. we can only hope.

bookelly wrote:Actually, there was a guy named Mordecai "Three-finger" Brown who won 238 games for the Cubs with missing digits. He, and his strange deadly curveball, completely dominated to the tune of a 2.06 ERA (3rd all time).

So hey... ...I for one welcome Adam "Three-Finger" Miller to the rotation.

Still had his middle finger, and he lost the fingers when he was young, so he was able to adapt. I don't think Miller can adapt at this late stage. But I did learn something new today, thanks.

bookelly wrote:Actually, there was a guy named Mordecai "Three-finger" Brown who won 238 games for the Cubs with missing digits. He, and his strange deadly curveball, completely dominated to the tune of a 2.06 ERA (3rd all time).

So hey... ...I for one welcome Adam "Three-Finger" Miller to the rotation.

Still had his middle finger, and he lost the fingers when he was young, so he was able to adapt. I don't think Miller can adapt at this late stage. But I did learn something new today, thanks.

He wouldnt have to cut off the entire finger. Cut it off to the point where the locked up joint is gone. Maybe lower so that he could get some flick or whatever from the middle joint on that finger like he use to from the locked up joint at the end of the middle finger. Hey, if he cant find a way to throw with the injury, the surgery doesnt work, why not try cut it off if you want to make it to the majors. We are talking about realizing a life long dream in making it to the majors and possibly millions of dollars. Wicki pitched with a nubbed off index finger and it gave him extra movement, why not Miller?

By the way I think throwing with his left arm is kind of rediculous, that would take years to get control of it.

I understand people have pitched with missing digits in the past, but the idea that people are just freely proclaiming that Miller should just have the finger cut off is just madness.

If he's not able to learn to command the baseball with the finger on, but unresponsive, do you really think he'll be able to learn how to command it with a missing finger?

It's not a point of whether or not it's possible to pitch in the major leagues with fingers missing, it's a point of whether or not it's possible to learn to do something different, grip wise, than that which you've been doing day in and day out for the last 20 years.

The options seem clear to me and they are the options that the Indians are talking about: - he either learns how to pitch with the current anatomical change or he has surgery in an attempt to return his finger to the same function it had prior to the injury.

Neither looks to promising at this point, but I'd say both are far more likely than anyone ever contemplating just chopping the finger off.

davemanddd wrote:now this is purely speculation on my part, as i have no idea about anything when it comes to medical matters, nor on what it takes to be a major league pitcher,

....but that won't stop me from making perhaps one of the most insane propositions in the history of the internet.

Go pick up a baseball and throw it. Tell me which finger touches the ball last, or which one has the most emphasis when you throw a breaking ball. Your middle finger does it all, without it you can't pitch, period.

Why didn't Miller have this surgery last year? If you remember, at the time, Miller had a hole in the finger that was leaking fluid. The surgery performed by Dr. Tom Graham sealed that hole and repaired one of the pulleys. But Graham could not do the reconstruction because of the risk of infection brought about by the hole.

Obviously, this is a very complicated issue -- one I'll do my best to explain in a story on Indians.com in a little bit. But the gist of it is that Miller threw a bullpen session this morning that was so wild that the Indians' training and coaching staffs have reason to question whether he will be able to adjust enought to be a competitive professional pitcher. It's a sad -- and I'm sure frustrating -- state of affairs for the 24-year-old once known as one of baseball's top prospects.

We can at least be assured that Adam Miller is in good hands. Dr. Tom Graham is an outstanding hand surgeon. I know this because Dr. Graham reconstructed a ligament in my thumb back in the 90s when he was in Cleveland working at the Clinic. If there is anyone who can fix Miller's finger, it's Dr. Graham.

Why didn't Miller have this surgery last year? If you remember, at the time, Miller had a hole in the finger that was leaking fluid. The surgery performed by Dr. Tom Graham sealed that hole and repaired one of the pulleys. But Graham could not do the reconstruction because of the risk of infection brought about by the hole.

Obviously, this is a very complicated issue -- one I'll do my best to explain in a story on Indians.com in a little bit. But the gist of it is that Miller threw a bullpen session this morning that was so wild that the Indians' training and coaching staffs have reason to question whether he will be able to adjust enought to be a competitive professional pitcher. It's a sad -- and I'm sure frustrating -- state of affairs for the 24-year-old once known as one of baseball's top prospects.

We can at least be assured that Adam Miller is in good hands. Dr. Tom Graham is an outstanding hand surgeon. I know this because Dr. Graham reconstructed a ligament in my thumb back in the 90s when he was in Cleveland working at the Clinic. If there is anyone who can fix Miller's finger, it's Dr. Graham.

Why didn't Miller have this surgery last year? If you remember, at the time, Miller had a hole in the finger that was leaking fluid. The surgery performed by Dr. Tom Graham sealed that hole and repaired one of the pulleys. But Graham could not do the reconstruction because of the risk of infection brought about by the hole.

Obviously, this is a very complicated issue -- one I'll do my best to explain in a story on Indians.com in a little bit. But the gist of it is that Miller threw a bullpen session this morning that was so wild that the Indians' training and coaching staffs have reason to question whether he will be able to adjust enought to be a competitive professional pitcher. It's a sad -- and I'm sure frustrating -- state of affairs for the 24-year-old once known as one of baseball's top prospects.

We can at least be assured that Adam Miller is in good hands. Dr. Tom Graham is an outstanding hand surgeon. I know this because Dr. Graham reconstructed a ligament in my thumb back in the 90s when he was in Cleveland working at the Clinic. If there is anyone who can fix Miller's finger, it's Dr. Graham.

Moonlight Graham?

Can he be our 5th starter?

I believe "Archibold 'Moonlight' Graham" was an outfielder who's only cup of coffee came late in the 1914 season for Connie Mack...and he never got to wink at the pitcher.

Apparantly Lonnie Soloff is going to give an update as to Millers status during the 2nd inning of todays game..... I'm listening to the game at the minute, so hopefully we should have an answer as to whether or not Miller is having surgery pretty soon.

Good news on the Miller front. His velocity and control is increasing each day he throws, which has been every 3 days so far. Surgery option getting further away. He continues to have no pain in the finger.

Miller will not be having the surgery at this point..... the Indians are going to let him continue to see if he can be effective with the decreased range of motion in his finger.

I guess this is good news...... hopefully it means Miller has made significant strides with his control over the last 10 days.

To paraphrase the announcer on the MLB.com Gameday team:

Miller has thrown off the mound every 3 days.

He has seen increased velocity, accuracy. He hasn't experienced any pain or any further decrease in motion.

Tomorrow he will start throwing his slider off flat ground - as of yet he's only thrown fastballs and change-ups. They're not out of the woods yet, but it seems like positive steps have been made and surgery is getting further and further away.

Schwaby said that Adam has altered his release point to compensate for not being able to fully bend the tip of that finger. He now puts the finger together with the index finger in order to get the final grip, making his new release point.

But after nine throwing sessions, including three bullpens, Miller has had no pain, no inflammation and no further decreases in range of motion, and he's made enough incremental gains in command and velocity that the Indians now believe he might be able to avoid surgery.

"He's proven us wrong on all three fronts," head athletic trainer Lonnie Soloff said.

More at the above link.

Last edited by cozmeesah on Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Why didn't Miller have this surgery last year? If you remember, at the time, Miller had a hole in the finger that was leaking fluid. The surgery performed by Dr. Tom Graham sealed that hole and repaired one of the pulleys. But Graham could not do the reconstruction because of the risk of infection brought about by the hole.

Obviously, this is a very complicated issue -- one I'll do my best to explain in a story on Indians.com in a little bit. But the gist of it is that Miller threw a bullpen session this morning that was so wild that the Indians' training and coaching staffs have reason to question whether he will be able to adjust enought to be a competitive professional pitcher. It's a sad -- and I'm sure frustrating -- state of affairs for the 24-year-old once known as one of baseball's top prospects.

We can at least be assured that Adam Miller is in good hands. Dr. Tom Graham is an outstanding hand surgeon. I know this because Dr. Graham reconstructed a ligament in my thumb back in the 90s when he was in Cleveland working at the Clinic. If there is anyone who can fix Miller's finger, it's Dr. Graham.

Moonlight Graham?

Can he be our 5th starter?

I believe "Archibold 'Moonlight' Graham" was an outfielder who's only cup of coffee came late in the 1914 season for Connie Mack...and he never got to wink at the pitcher.

Dude...come on. Moonlight played for the Giants, and John McGraw, not Connie Mack.

You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves-----Abe Lincoln

Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts. -----Lars

"Each time he's made improvement," said Soloff, "We've seen incremental gains in control, command and velocity."

Miller, according to Soloff, has changed his release point. Before his surgically repaired finger stiffened early in spring training, the ball came out of his right hand exclusively on the right middle finger. Now he's using his index finger as well.

"We can tell because there is a callus on the index finger," said Soloff.

Miller has been throwing fastballs and change-ups. He'll start throwing sliders today and Sunday in flat-ground sessions. On Monday he'll throw fastballs, change-ups and sliders off the mound.

"The next step will be batting practice or a simulated game," said Soloff.

Soloff said the Indians never thought Miller would get to this point. They felt surgery would be needed.

"To be honest with you," said Soloff, "we anticipated a failure in one of three parameters -- Adam having symptoms of pain or swelling, a change in the physical presentation of the finger regarding range of motion or inflammation or that he just wouldn't be able to do it.

Why didn't Miller have this surgery last year? If you remember, at the time, Miller had a hole in the finger that was leaking fluid. The surgery performed by Dr. Tom Graham sealed that hole and repaired one of the pulleys. But Graham could not do the reconstruction because of the risk of infection brought about by the hole.

Obviously, this is a very complicated issue -- one I'll do my best to explain in a story on Indians.com in a little bit. But the gist of it is that Miller threw a bullpen session this morning that was so wild that the Indians' training and coaching staffs have reason to question whether he will be able to adjust enought to be a competitive professional pitcher. It's a sad -- and I'm sure frustrating -- state of affairs for the 24-year-old once known as one of baseball's top prospects.

We can at least be assured that Adam Miller is in good hands. Dr. Tom Graham is an outstanding hand surgeon. I know this because Dr. Graham reconstructed a ligament in my thumb back in the 90s when he was in Cleveland working at the Clinic. If there is anyone who can fix Miller's finger, it's Dr. Graham.

Moonlight Graham?

Can he be our 5th starter?

I believe "Archibold 'Moonlight' Graham" was an outfielder who's only cup of coffee came late in the 1914 season for Connie Mack...and he never got to wink at the pitcher.

Dude...come on. Moonlight played for the Giants, and John McGraw, not Connie Mack.

Soloff said Adam Miller, attempting to redefine his pitching motion, hit a "bump in the road" Monday and has been shut down. Miller had just started throwing batting practice when he experienced pain and swelling in his right middle finger and stopped throwing. He was scheduled to play catch today in Goodyear, Ariz.

Miller has been trying to avoid career-threatening surgery on his finger by trying to change his delivery and release point.

"We'll know more based on how he tolerates his throwing program over the next three to five days," said Soloff. "The difference is that Adam increased his intensity facing hitters. Surgery is always going to be an option. If in three to five days he's not better, we would consider sending him to see Dr. Graham. But since the symptoms have resolved, we're encouraged by that."