I don't know your kids' babysitter so I can only guess at her rationale, but think about her age for a second. She's 13. She was just born when Halo:CE came out (FUCK we are old). Has she played them to the lengths we AJ douchecocks have? Did she play them in order? Hell, I don't think she would've been able to even play Halo 2 online depending on when she picked up the series. I'd argue what's missing from her opinion is what is messing with ours: perspective. I don't think there's any way she's experienced Halo's multiplayer from beginning to end like we have. To her, the dramatic shifts from the first 3 games to the last ones probably aren't as jarring.

As for me, I'm butthurt because after Halo 3 the series has been trying to not be Halo. Reach showed how little of a shit Bungie gave about the series anymore. 4 was trying too hard to stand out as a non-Bungie game, and Drew did a good job showing how overdesigned everything is. What disappointed me the most though with Halo 4 wasn't how badly 343 showed they had no idea how to write, design, or balance a Halo game, it was that 343 showed they didn't even know how to be original. Heavy COD influences in multiplayer, paint by numbers plot, etc. Halo 4 was the first game I felt had the shitty "appeal to the lowest common denominator" icing on top. So yeah, when THAT is your last taste of this franchise, Halo 2 IS heaven. Almost no one here will argue that Halo 2 plays better than CE, but goddammit we still played that game for 3 years. Halo 4 didn't even last 3 months.

I don't know your kids' babysitter so I can only guess at her rationale, but think about her age for a second. She's 13. She was just born when Halo:CE came out (FUCK we are old). Has she played them to the lengths we AJ douchecocks have? Did she play them in order? Hell, I don't think she would've been able to even play Halo 2 online depending on when she picked up the series. I'd argue what's missing from her opinion is what is messing with ours: perspective. I don't think there's any way she's experienced Halo's multiplayer from beginning to end like we have. To her, the dramatic shifts from the first 3 games to the last ones probably aren't as jarring.

As for me, I'm butthurt because after Halo 3 the series has been trying to not be Halo. Reach showed how little of a shit Bungie gave about the series anymore. 4 was trying too hard to stand out as a non-Bungie game, and Drew did a good job showing how overdesigned everything is. What disappointed me the most though with Halo 4 wasn't how badly 343 showed they had no idea how to write, design, or balance a Halo game, it was that 343 showed they didn't even know how to be original. Heavy COD influences in multiplayer, paint by numbers plot, etc. Halo 4 was the first game I felt had the shitty "appeal to the lowest common denominator" icing on top. So yeah, when THAT is your last taste of this franchise, Halo 2 IS heaven. Almost no one here will argue that Halo 2 plays better than CE, but goddammit we still played that game for 3 years. Halo 4 didn't even last 3 months.

I agree with everything you are saying. I think the difference is that I let go of the pain ages ago. When I was sitting there playing Halo 2, bored, realizing that what I was playing differed, in some very key respects, from what was teased, realizing that I had not ridden the hype train, but the hype train had ridden me, that Mister Chief had been nothing more than my 300-lb semi-retarded prison cellmate, I went through a form of catharsis -- I was purged of pity and fear. Although I have tried to voice my complaints over the years, my heart just hasn't been in it.

I think that's why I feel it's a little unfair when we bitch so much about Halo games. The only continuity, really, is branding, which is just a marketing trick to get us to make purchases based on nostalgia/past experience. The Master Chief - Cortana relationship is just as distinct and unique as Link - Zelda or any other host of video game couples. The shooting and jumping is still just shooting and jumping, reskinned for the current market. And if free-to-play teaches us anything, it's that people will pay top-dollar for new skins.

The reason I bring up the babysitter is this - from a fresh perspective, with loads of time on her hands and limited resources (like most of the older members of this forum when first introduced to Halo and Halo 2), she finds a lot to enjoy about Reach and Halo 4, no complaints. Is Halo 4 worse than other Halos? Maybe, sure, yeah. Is it, objectively speaking, a bad game? I don't think so. We here on this forum are incapable of making an objective assessment.

So, instead of bitching for hours and hours and months and years about games that will always disappoint our nostalgia, why don't we just let it go? The best thread I've read on here in a while was that ridiculous argument about The Last of Us multiplayer. We may have started out as a secret Halo fansite, but there's so much more to us. Our Halo discussions are no longer exciting -- they are bitter and boring.

We here on this forum are incapable of making an objective assessment.

Wow. There is a lot of bitching in this thread. Halo 2 was shit compared to its predecessor, and you guys look back on that like it was heaven. It seems like what is missing from these conversations on previous halo and future halo is perspective.

A 13-yr old girl who babysits for us plays the crap out of all halo games and loves them. She's not an idiot. So what is missing from her experience that you guys are getting so butt-hurt over?

Not trying to jump your ass here, just pointing out the reason for my original point. You may not have liked Halo 2, but you often speak as if the only reason peopled liked it or anticipate The Master Chief Collection is because of nostalgia. And while that may be your opinion? I'm not exactly keen on being talked to like I'm seemingly blinded by the past and don't know what I should like. I'm well aware of my fondness for Halo 2, I'm well aware that Halo 4 is fucking awful by my standard and this is likely the last time I will get to play a good Halo game. And I'm also well aware that your opinion differs from mine, which is perfectly fine. But I have to draw a line in the sand when it comes to someone claiming that I don't know what I'm talking about, especially when it comes to my own opinion and taste.

I just want to point out that there's a giant Halo 2 Sucks thread. Go back and read what most of you said about the game back then. Not holding it against anyone, but I just find it ironic how every time a new Halo comes out the current one is awful until the next one comes out and then the last one becomes good and the new one awful. See my discussion with Drew about Halo Reach vs Halo 4.

I just want to point out that there's a giant Halo 2 Sucks thread. Go back and read what most of you said about the game back then. Not holding it against anyone, but I just find it ironic how every time a new Halo comes out the current one is awful until the next one comes out and then the last one becomes good and the new one awful. See my discussion with Drew about Halo Reach vs Halo 4.

I don't think that's true every time though. I'm extremely confident that Halo 4 will be remembered as a black mark on the franchise for a significant portion of the audience regardless of what comes out after.

Now, I do fully agree that problems are magnified when you're in the thick of them and lessened in hindsight. Do I agree with every single decision made in Halo 2? No, I do not. But any disappointment I felt playing Halo 2 wasn't comparable to the disappointment I felt with Halo 4. Of that, I can assure you.

Also, I know I'm the only one. But I've always liked Halo: Reach. Granted, I didn't have much time for the multiplayer given how busy I was with school. But I enjoyed what I played, or should say, it didn't bother me to an extreme extent and that's not an opinion that happened post Halo 4, either.

I understand the point you're going for but I don't think that this is simply another cycle.

I just want to point out that there's a giant Halo 2 Sucks thread. Go back and read what most of you said about the game back then. Not holding it against anyone, but I just find it ironic how every time a new Halo comes out the current one is awful until the next one comes out and then the last one becomes good and the new one awful. See my discussion with Drew about Halo Reach vs Halo 4.

This is false because I liked Halo 3, and I'm pretty sure the only person furiously bitching about it back then was Drew. My only disappointment was in the multiplayer map designs. Other than that, great game. Halo 2 sucked at the time because we could only compare it to Halo 1, and within that spectrum, it's quite different (and therefore terrible). Halo 3, as a sequel to Halo 2, is quite good, especially on the campaign side. Halo Reach sucked because it began a very different trend for the multiplayer. Halo 4 sucked because it multiplied that trend exponentially.

I would take Armor Lock over no weapons on map, ridiculously overdone load-outs (spawning with Plasma Pistols in particular), the worst maps in the series, the Mantis, the Boltshot, Promethian Vision, and killstreaks any day of the week.

Not trying to jump your ass here, just pointing out the reason for my original point. You may not have liked Halo 2, but you often speak as if the only reason peopled liked it or anticipate The Master Chief Collection is because of nostalgia. And while that may be your opinion? I'm not exactly keen on being talked to like I'm seemingly blinded by the past and don't know what I should like. I'm well aware of my fondness for Halo 2, I'm well aware that Halo 4 is fucking awful by my standard and this is likely the last time I will get to play a good Halo game. And I'm also well aware that your opinion differs from mine, which is perfectly fine. But I have to draw a line in the sand when it comes to someone claiming that I don't know what I'm talking about, especially when it comes to my own opinion and taste.

You're right. You're my best friend and I love you. I'm sorry I was a dick about your opinion.

For the record, I've enjoyed the campaigns of all Halos but Halo 2, but I haven't enjoyed the competitive MP since 3. I enjoyed that skull-gathering game from reach, but that wasn't competitive multiplayer, just pure chaos.

What I played in London was just a part of the Maxi-Beta that is going to hit on December 29th, the content of the Beta will be released over time and we will have the chance to play 7 maps and 3 gametypes. During our 2 hours of gameplay, we had the chance to try the first part of the Beta, which will be featuring 2 Gametypes on 3 maps, but before we had the chance to play, 343i introduced us to Halo 5's new features: There's many.

There have been added some small Thruster packs which allow for many new ways to move around, in a Titanfall fashion. A double jump has been intruduced; you can also stay in the air for a few seconds or evade side-wise, even while airborn.

Using a new animation system, our Spartans are able to climb on platforms with their arms with a very fluid and fast motion. There's also a couple of special moves:

The first one is the ability to sprint (faster than the usual run) to charge enemies from the front or from behind. Getting them from the front will remove the enemy's shield immediatly, from the back will insta-kill them; watch out though, Sprinting will prevent you from recharging your shields.

The second one instead is a charge from above: you can click the right stick while aiming on the ground to perform a Ground Pound, but you will be left vulnerable to enemy fire.

Our first game was a classic deathmatch 4v4; there was an indicator for The spawn points of Power Weapons like Rockets, Sniper and Sword. There's also a timer that will let you know when they will spawn.The first map we played on was on the top of a skyscraper, with many platforms with outside and inside zones.

The second one was instead (The guy is talking about Midship, I'll prevent you from reading his terrible description).The Multiplayer felt like an evolution to first person shooters, with a frenetic pace in which it's better to always run and jump, where aiming skills are more important than well knowing the maps.

The second Gametype is called Breakout. It's a 4v4 deathmatch without respawns; if you get killed, you'll be out for the rest of the round. The map is small, it has a Tron look to it, it's an open space with pyramids, parallelepipeds and cubes that can be used as cover. The game will start with the team been literally catapulted on the map: you must be very fast to reach the Power positions on the map. First team to 5 rounds wins,

This gametype is very immediate and fun.

From a technical standpoint, the game runs at 60 fps with an engine that shines for special effects like lights and reflections.

Unfortunately we had no chance to have a look at player customization that will surely be provided in the beta.

It will be possible to choose a loadout, but it won't be like in Call of Duty, the best weapons will be on the map in a typical Halo fashion.

Confirmed by so-called journalists posting on GAF that don't know the worth of an NDA.