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Cant Itachi just use his eyes to force kabuto? (he did say that some time ago, to tobi right? or that just a tobi thing)

I expect that with the snake being joined to Kabuto as it is, he is probably immune to genjutsu. Specifically, much the same as Kirabi can break (seemingly all) genjutsu because he has 2 chakra sources, I expect that Kabuto can use his snake-graft to free himself from genjutsu.

I expect that with the snake being joined to Kabuto as it is, he is probably immune to genjutsu. Specifically, much the same as Kirabi can break (seemingly all) genjutsu because he has 2 chakra sources, I expect that Kabuto can use his snake-graft to free himself from genjutsu.

Just wondering, didn't Kakashi and/or Asuma + Kurenai mention how fast Itachi's Tsukiyomi was back in Part 1 of the series? I remember when Kakashi was stabbed repeatedly by Itachi in the Tsukiyomi world that a second barely passed by in the real world. Or at least that's what they all seemed to say. Assuming this "rule" stands, can't Itachi just end it that quickly or maybe the rules for it have changed overtime?

I remember when Sasuke used genjutsu on Bee that it wasn't really acknowledged as Tsukiyomi. While Kabuto, Naruto or Bee could break themselves free from "general" genjutsu with the aid of their allies, how would it work with Itachi's Tsukiyomi?

I feel like I just complicated things way too much. I apologize but I find the idea interesting.

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"Sometimes you're so focused on your enemies, that you forget to watch your friends."

Madara's hyping of Harashima can't help but make Yamato look like even more of a disappointment. I'd actually like to see him join the 3 way showdown aswell. Maybe Sasuke can somehow get his own rinengan from 'consuming Yamato'

Liked the kage all working together and Tsunade getting the spotlight for once. Madara is getting a little weird with his reverence for Hashirama...seems like he has a pretty serious man crush on him . Doesn't help that he has the guy's face embedded on his chest but all this about how great the 1st was. Man, keep it in your pants Madara. However, his comment about teaching him to rise from the dead was pretty interesting. I wonder what he was getting at there...

The Mexican standoff between Itachi, Sasuke and Kabuto... that should be pretty nice. It's been my guess for awhile now that Sasuke would be the one to finish Kabuto. But this adds a nice extra layer to it because depending how things go it could be a good thing or a very bad thing for the heroes if Kabuto dies now.

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Originally Posted by james0246

I expect that with the snake being joined to Kabuto as it is, he is probably immune to genjutsu. Specifically, much the same as Kirabi can break (seemingly all) genjutsu because he has 2 chakra sources, I expect that Kabuto can use his snake-graft to free himself from genjutsu.

I was referring more to his arrogance towards the current generation of Kages as a whole. Tsunade was only the fourth choice successor to Hiruzen at best, behind Jiraiya, Orochimaru, and Minato. As powerful as some of their predecessors they may not be, but almost any two of the current Kage would be able to curbstomp Madara if he only had his own abilities.

I don't see how you can claim that, everything we know and everything we were told about him tell exactly the opposite story.
Be it from Oonoki, from Dan, from Kabuto, from Madara himself and many others it's just a fact that Hashirama and Madara were the stuff of legend. Considerably more powerful than any Kage, any two Kage or probably all of them together.
His very name is what convinced them all to form the first world-wide alliance in history because they had no hope otherwise and that was before they knew about a Zetsu army or Edo-Tensei.

The fact that he is now using powers he gained after his fight with Hashirama doesn't mean he couldn't win with those he had before. The man is litterally field-testing his powers, the 5 Kages put together haven't been able to make him serious, he is simply using the power he took from his old nemesis against them and they haven't proven equal to the task.
For all his new strengths, the fact is that Madara has not even bothered to make real use of the Rinnengan yet, has hardly used his EMS except for a basic stage of Susanoo and didn't even make much use of the fact that he is undead because all the Kage put together haven't been able to hurt him save for a little graze from Oonoki.

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Originally Posted by itachi-san314

you can say I'm in denial, but it's a fact that madara himself said she was stronger than A, which means she's the strongest kage power-wise. oonoki and gaara have the best techs. A is fastest. Mei is weakest in my book

She's the Kage who can hit the hardest, nothing else, and even that wasn't enough to make more than a crack in Madara's Susanoo in its ribcages stage.
As far as I'm concerned, Mei's Suiton jutsu which stopped Madara's Katon was more impressive than what Tsunade did for the moment, I only hope that after she regenerates she will show off something more impressive and new than just a big punch.

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Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Madara is getting a little weird with his reverence for Hashirama...seems like he has a pretty serious man crush on him .

Madara obviously only respects power. Hashirama as the strongest man of his time (and apparently to this day still) is the one person he respects over everything else. If you don't have this level of power then you're not worth anything in Madara's eyes. If you're a Senju and not up to his expectation then you're worse than a waste of oxygen, you're an insult to what you should stand for.
I suspect though that if Hashirama wasn't long dead, Madara would be a little less nostalgic and a little more hateful torward Shodai.

kimish went front....the 4th is the best most powerful character i ever created to...the 1st and madara are so powerful, they are myth.

almost wish they find a way to bring the 1sts back. seeing them going all out, blow for blow with unlimited life and neverdying.....it would be amazing.

didn't sarutobi who knew the 1st personally, say that minato was the strongest hokage ever? Minato did beat tobi after all. he would have probably killed him too if he didn't have to worry about the kyuubi, his dying wife, his newborn son and the future of the village he swore to protect. but yea, I want to see the fight between hashirama and madara too =)

Not to mention, Hiruzen went 1v2 against the old-gen hokages and kicked their asses while being emotionally challenged. Madara is just a Hashirama fanboy

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The fact that he is now using powers he gained after his fight with Hashirama doesn't mean he couldn't win with those he had before. The man is litterally field-testing his powers, the 5 Kages put together haven't been able to make him serious, he is simply using the power he took from his old nemesis against them and they haven't proven equal to the task.
For all his new strengths, the fact is that Madara has not even bothered to make real use of the Rinnengan yet, has hardly used his EMS except for a basic stage of Susanoo and didn't even make much use of the fact that he is undead because all the Kage put together haven't been able to hurt him save for a little graze from Oonoki.

QFE, if anyone can make Madara get serious, it's Naruto...but he's too busy duking it out with Tobi, so what hope is there for the 5 kages?

Not to mention, Hiruzen went 1v2 against the old-gen hokages and kicked their asses while being emotionally challenged. Madara is just a Hashirama fanboy

even though it's a retcon, it's established now that the first and second were not even close to fighting at their true strength since orochimaru was controlling them and didn't know their full capability. kabuto on the other hand, allows his ET some free will to fight how they want

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Originally Posted by lucasd

Madara did not know 4th, so it is hard for him to give marks...
Also Sage should be the strongest ever.

you're assuming that tobi isn't in part madara. he's done so many things that supposedly only madara could know or do that madara being at least a part of him is highly likely.

I don't see how you can claim that, everything we know and everything we were told about him tell exactly the opposite story.
Be it from Oonoki, from Dan, from Kabuto, from Madara himself and many others it's just a fact that Hashirama and Madara were the stuff of legend. Considerably more powerful than any Kage, any two Kage or probably all of them together.

There's a significant jump between "stuff of legend" and "more powerful than [...] probably all of them put together." Hiruzen was the stuff of legend in his prime, but I don't see him beating all the current Kage combined.

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His very name is what convinced them all to form the first world-wide alliance in history because they had no hope otherwise and that was before they knew about a Zetsu army or Edo-Tensei.

But it was after they knew he had 7 of the 9 bijuu compared to the rest of the ninja world's one with Killer Bee missing. Given the state of Konoha after Pain's attack, mobilizing the other nations to protect Naruto and stop Tobi from completing a plan he didn't actually need to do that much more to accomplish was the only logical thing to do. Madara's name is legendary now, but you're talking about an age where the only people who actually remember him were children when he was alive.

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The fact that he is now using powers he gained after his fight with Hashirama doesn't mean he couldn't win with those he had before. The man is litterally field-testing his powers, the 5 Kages put together haven't been able to make him serious, he is simply using the power he took from his old nemesis against them and they haven't proven equal to the task.
For all his new strengths, the fact is that Madara has not even bothered to make real use of the Rinnengan yet, has hardly used his EMS except for a basic stage of Susanoo and didn't even make much use of the fact that he is undead because all the Kage put together haven't been able to hurt him save for a little graze from Oonoki.

He used the Rinnegan to drop two meteors on Oonoki's face as well as avoid being curbstomped a matter of seconds after whipping out his Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan against two Kages + a Naruto clone + nameless fodder that stopped being useful the moment he started using his regular Sharingan. He's also used Susanoo's full abilities during this fight, launching projectile attacks as well as using its close-range abilities for defense and a combination attack with Hashirama's pollen, far beyond anything we've seen Itachi or Sasuke do with it. Claiming that he's not using all of his abilities is disingenuous.

Madara has a lot of hype, but based on what we've actually seen, I'm disappointed. He's ridiculously powerful in his current state, but his original powers certainly weren't godly, as evidenced by how quickly he had to start using the Rinnegan and the fact that even with all his extra powers he still took a blow from Tsunade that would have literally destroyed him if not for Edo Tensei.