2 Samuel 16:9,11 - "Why should this dead dog curse my lord the king? Let me go over, I pray thee, and take off his head...let him alone, and let him curse; for the Lord hath bidden him."

Matthew 7:15 - “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

Matthew 24:11 - “…and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.”

Monday, April 23, 2012

Ed Young Warns of the Heretical "Poverty Vibe" in Christianity - While Mary Ann the Camel Takes a Big Ol' Dump Right on Cue

Ed Young rides in on camel for 4/22/12 sermon.

God definitely has a sense of humor. This Sunday Ed Young started his sermon by riding in on the animal prop of the day, Mary Ann the Camel. But Mary Ann the Camel stole the show, taking a big ol' dump on the stage at the precise moment that Ed himself was using the Bible to justify his own wealth, and mock poverty and sacrifice.

Way to go, Mary Ann! You have given us all a fitting visual image of what happens most Sundays when Ed Young teaches on finances; poop comes forth and is strewn all over the Fellowship Church stage.

Camel lifts tail, takes dump at 11:59 mark.

At the moment Mary Ann the Camel let loose of her bowels, at the 11:59 mark of the video below, Ed was mocking what he called the "poverty vibe" in modern Christianity. Here is what Ed was saying as Mary Ann defecated on cue:

"God's blessed us, we hold it [money] loosely, he's going to give us more and more and more. We have it tightly grasped, we're not going to have as much.

There's a whole vibe out there these days in Christianity, it's been around for a long, long time. It goes back to the Catholic Church, it goes back to self-deprecation [cue Mary Ann the Camel, now taking a big ole dump], there's this whole 'poverty vibe' out there. A lot of books have been written about it, it sounds so sexy and cool and biblical. Fact: they're not biblical. Fact: they're heretical. No where in the Bible does it tell me as a follower of Christ I'm to take an oath to poverty. Where's that in the Bible? Where's that in the Bible that I should feel guilty if I'm blessed of God? You cannot make that argument. Think about the patriarchs and matriarchs of our faith, many of these men and women were LOADED financially."

What is he talking about? A "poverty vibe" in Christianity? Who out there is calling for vows of poverty in modern Christianity? No, the only "poverty vibe" out there is the vibe from mega church pastors misusing scripture to guilt even the very poorest of Christians into forking over 1/10th of their income to the church which pays the pastor a six-figure salary. No one is calling for vows of poverty - although some recalcitrant bloggers are calling for a little transparency on how the money is spent in churches like Ed's, and for mega church preachers to stop using their churches as ATM's and marketing machines for their own personal brands.

In my view Ed's jab at a "poverty vibe" and "books" written about it, is Ed taking a shot at David Platt's views in the book "Radical", and perhaps even Francis Chan's recent lifestyle conversion. Platt is troubled by the materialism of most Christians while the gospel is not going forth to the nations and while many people are starving.

I suppose for Ed Young to disavow his own materialism and live a more modest lifestyle closer to that of the average pew sitter - for him that would be taking a vow of poverty, relatively speaking.

At least this time Ed didn't pull the "get out your checkbook and give me your account and routing number" routine....but at the conclusion of the service Ed did give a text number for people who prayed to receive Jesus - or more importantly, who decided to start giving money to the church - should send a text message to.

So again, thank you, Mary Ann the Camel, for putting your dung right there on the stage to provide the stench that surely Ed's money sermons are to the nostrils of God.

Women are Scripturally forbidden to be pastors, preachers or leaders over men in any capacity. The average woman today is a feminist in her philosophies. This is tragic and a curse upon America. This is why the sin of abortion is commonplace. This is why the sin of divorce is so prevalent. One sin begets another. Women preachers and feminism are synonymous.

Women have equal human rights, are of equal worth, and are not inferior to men in any way; BUT, woman do not have a right to usurp authority over men. Feminism DEMANDS equality in the area of authority, and cries "inequality" if they don't get it. This is what Lucifer said in Isaiah 14:14... "I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High." Lucifer just wanted EQUALITY, wanting to be "like" the most high.

Feminists claim they are simply asking for equality, to be "like" men in authority. Today, America is infested with women in authoritative power positions, and America is going to Hell because of it. Homosexuality is commonplace, abortion has become completely shameless, pornography is considered normal, divorce is highly encouraged nowadays, etc. Sin! Sin! Sin! Feminism is a Trojan Horse sin, that brings with it a slew of godlessness and woeful evils. Feminism and the Word of God are DIAMETRICALLY opposed to each other!

April 23, 2012 10:06 AM - nice try. All those problems (and thousands more) you mention in our society and churches were there long, long, long BEFORE, we started trying to treat women equally in our churches. MEN are the abusive pastors, pedophiles, molestors, adulterers, theives, manipulators, controlers, etc. About time we got some women involved in leadership to keep these good old boys from more abuse. Good luck trying to find a sect/cult that believes the way you do.

The same thought that goes into this draconian thinking about deacons also says women can't be adult, coed Sunday School teachers UNLESS the woman teacher is the pastor's wife, because the pastor and his wife are in ministry TOGETHER. (Where is THAT in the scriptures?)

In other words, if you'll give me about 20 minutes I can explain exactly what the scriptures don't say, but meant to.

Ed Young is only "blessed" because he teaches an incorrect doctrine of mandatory tithing. Scare people into opening their pocketbooks and you are likely to reap the windfalls.

Once you see past his gift of communication, you see his gift of manipulation.

Ed Young, the New Testament is filled with scriptures concerning money. You are the "rich man." Do you not see? Funny how scriptures apply to everyone except you. Quit gorging yourself on materialism and maybe more people would listen to what you have to say.

Sorry, Ed. That "poverty vibe" goes back to Jesus Christ himself -- who didn't have a roof under his head and walked from place to place. It goes back to the Apostles and the early church, who held everything in common and gave to each according to their needs.

"God is gonna open the windows of heaven in our lives when we...the camel filter"

What exactly does that mean? Nothing, right?

"You could take your last breath in the next minute" (or something close to that)

Does this remind you of a salesman putting on the pressure to get the close? The salesman tells you that you must decide NOW. Don't THINK! Don't discuss with your spouse. My pastor used to remind us how we could be in a car wreck on the way home.

Also, maybe it's in there, but I don't recall Jesus talking at all about the local church. Are there verses on that that I've forgotten?

The Biblical teaching of womanly submission is vastly different than the monstrous image that feminists paint of authoritative husbands and pastors. If you don't do your job at work, you are going to get written up or fired. It should be no different in the home. A husband who is married to a rebellious wife has no recourse of action nowadays, because society has gone insane with "Domestic Abuse" laws. A husband legally can't rebuke, scold or discipline his wife in any manner, except to beg her to do her job at home.

So then who is going to correct her when she fails to care for the children? ... when she fails to clean the house? ... when she doesn't care about the children's safety? Child Protection Services? A psychologist? A shrink will just send a struggling wife to a psychiatrist for drugs that'll totally debilitate her. Good luck finding a church that'll care about your family. Despite the thousands of excellent churches in America, many people are finding it increasingly difficult to find a decent church that believes the King James Bible, isn't money-hungry, and a church that believes in goes soulwinning. Most pastors today are simply interested in making a living, and continually pressure their members for more money.

Men are prohibited in America from commanding their homes anymore. In most places in America today, police are required by law to remove the husband from the home, by force if need be, merely based on an accusation by the wife that he was abusive towards her. After the O.J. Simpson murder trials, feminists used the event to make wide-sweeping changes to our nation's laws, now commonly referred to as the "O.J. laws."

you removed women from the Satanic Charismatic Movement, it would disappear overnight. Wouldn't that be a great thing! Women preachers are notorious for demonic speaking-in-tongues, fraudulent faith healing, and greed. God likens rebellion to witchcraft in 1st Samuel 15:23. Women who enter the pulpit are disobeying God, openly and shamelessly, which puts them in the same boat as demonic witches.

How does all this fit in with women preachers? In many ways. As America has turned apostate, feminism has crept into our churches. As a consequence, woman have entered the pulpit in alarming numbers, bringing lesbianism and a host of other sins into the church. The sin of rebellion is a Trojan Horse sin. In other words, when a woman rebels against God by usurping authority over men, a host of other sins follow. Women must accept their role in the Body of Christ as those who learn "in silence (quietness) with all subjection." Women preachers are repulsive. It's just not right, ethically or Biblical. Wherever you find a church with a woman in the pulpit, you'll find a liberal-minded church that is infested with doctrinal heresies. This is why God told women to shut-up, and for men to do the preaching. So shut up!

I admit that being able to watch the camel made things a whole lot more interesting. And I can see where doing something novel can attract people and nothing wrong with that. But once you get them there in the audience, what you tell them they must do, is the thing that's questionable.

And, again, he's appealing to emotion-just like all high-pressure salesmen. He doesn't say "take some time, think over these ideas I've shared, see if they make sense to you and your spouse." You're just supposed to believe that he's right about all he's saying and that doing what he says you should do is a good thing.

I understand what the bible has to say about the role of women - what irks me is the bible says a Deacon is to be the husband of "one wife" but so many men I know have been married & divorced once, twice & three times. Double standard in my eyes.

I also think Ed brought a "really smart camel" on stage and showed what it really thought of Ed's message. LOL

Without referring to the speaker's character or person, I think it wise to point out the flaw in the study. Mr. Young holds up a "sewing needle" and says that Jesus is saying it is harder for a camel (pointing to the monstrous animal on the stage) "to go through the eye of a sewing needle" (holding up the sewing needle) than for "a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

What?

Anyone who spends just a modicum of time studying the text would know that ancient Hebrews and Arabs carried their possessions on the back of a camel. The wealthier you were, the bigger the load (and the bigger and more valuable the camel). To enter the ancient and walled capital of Jerusalem, camels had to go through a very narrow gate called "Needle Gate." For those of us who have been to Jerusalem, the Needle Gate entrance remains to this day an entry point into the old city.

It was impossible for a camel, loaded down with a man's wealth on his back, to go through the Needle Gate. The wealthy had to REMOVE all his possessions from the back of the camel and walk through the gate with nothing on the camel's back. It was very common for the wealthy to pause outside Needle Gate and take time and energy to unstrap, unload, and pile possessions outside Needle Gate. Hebrew boys would receive a small coin to gaurd possessions as the wealthy moved the camel (sans possessions) through Needle Gate and then come back out to take his wealth into the walled city, carrying it himself one load at a time.

Jesus, the Master Illustrator, would take that which was familiar to the Hebrews and drive home an eternal principle. Do you wish to enter the Kingdom of God? Then if you are wealthy, you must be willing to remove all your possessions from your camel like the wealthy outside Jerusalem (i.e. "You have to be willing to let go of riches").

It is not that it is impossible for the rich to enter the kingdom--that is not what Jesus is saying. It is only possible for the rich and wealthy to enter the kingdom of God when they are willing to lose it all for the cause of Christ. Doesn't mean they will--it just means they must be WILLING to lay it all down for the King.

As I listened to the message (and I did), I realized that the problem may not be in the character or disposition of the speaker, but the remarkable inattention to the text itself. When speakers who present themselves as Bible teachers spend more time working out logistics to have a camel on stage and less time figuring out the meaning of the text, then you have a circus show, not a church.

He seems to be saying there near the end that not being generous could be keeping you from eternal life. So does that imply you might just end up in hell if you don't start being generous with the church? Jesus will say he never knew you?

What he seems to be "selling" in this sermon is freedom from guilt. Maybe many wealthy people feel guilty for having money. He's telling them that their guilt will go away IF they are generous to the church. And he tells them to give 10% to "the house," save 10%, then enjoy the rest guilt-free.

It just sounds like someone who knows the concerns of the wealthy and he's tailoring the message to address their concerns. Plus he told them their life will have no meaning and be a stinking mess if they don't become generous.

Why couldn't he just say to go be generous with people? Be generous with your money, your time, your attention, your caring, etc. But that's not what he said.

Christianity"The eye of a needle" is part of a saying of Jesus recorded in the synoptic gospels:“I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” Matthew 19:23-24Parallel versions appear in Mark 10:24-25, and Luke 18:24-25.The saying was a response to a young rich man who had asked Jesus what he needed to do in order to inherit eternal life. Jesus replied that he should keep the commandments, to which the man stated he had done. Jesus responded, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." The young man became sad and was unwilling to do this. Jesus then spoke this response, leaving his disciples astonished.The "eye of a needle" has been interpreted as a gate in Jerusalem, which opened after the main gate was closed at night. A camel could only pass through this smaller gate if it was stooped and had its baggage removed. This story has been put forth since at least the 15th century, and possibly as far back as the 9th century. However, there is no evidence for the existence of such a gate.[3][4]Variations on this story include that of ancient inns having small entrances to thwart thieves, or a story of an old mountain pass known as the "eye of the needle", so narrow that merchants would have to dismount from their camels and were thus were more vulnerable to waiting brigands.Cyril of Alexandria claimed that "camel" is a Greek misprint; that kamêlos (camel) was a misprint of kamilos, meaning "rope" or "cable".[2][5] However evidence for such a Greek term is weak, there is little or no Greek manuscript support, and it goes against the standard principle of textual criticism that errors tend to happen towards the easier reading, not against it.

Also, I was taught that salvation is a free gift. But must you also be willing to give your 10% or must you be willing to give up all your wealth? Aren't those requirements that go beyond simply receiving a "free" gift?

Thank you, Wade, for clarifying what Jesus would have actually been referring to in his use of the camel illustration.

This is what concerns me so much in preaching these days, is preachers wanting to allegorize scripture to get meanings out of it that really are either just flat out wrong interpretations - such as this case - or reading meanings in scripture that were never intended, to try to make their own personal application.

It seems to be to be outright blasphemy, to put words in the mouth of God that he never said or never would say. It is to make a mockery of scripture, to turn it into their own "Aesop's Fables" of sorts.

If there is more to salvation than simply truly believing that Jesus died for your sins and turning from your sins, then preachers should explain this clearly up front. They should quit appealing to emotion and tell people to count the cost-costs could involve giving up wealth, your life, everything. Actually I guess Young is saying just give the local church 10% and you're off the hook.

It's impossible for a camel to go through the eye of a needle! That's exactly what the Lord wanted people to conclude. Verses 25-26 say, "When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who, then, can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." No man has the resources within himself to live up to God's standards. That's why we have to cast ourselves on the mercy of God. The rich young ruler in Matthew 19 wasn't willing to do that. He wanted to enter the Kingdom but on his terms. However, that's like trying to put a camel through the eye of a needle. The only way into the Kingdom is by becoming broken in spirit, mournful, and eager for a righteousness that you can't attain and don't deserve.

Everyone - Mary Ann the Camel has contacted her friend Watchdog, to clarify that it wasn't JUST the nonsensical teaching on the "poverty vibe" that ticked her off...it was Ed calling camels "big, ugly and smelly". [at the 3:00 mark].

She said that she tried to spit at Ed, but she just couldn't get a good line on him, so she waited until he passed between her and the camera, and she decided to let loose.

There are thieves in the hen house...chief of them in the apostate John MacArthur!

By covetousness they will exploit you . . . ." (2 Peter 2:3).

As an example of MacArthur's income, in 2006 MacArthur made $160,363 with $13,828 in benefits from his "Grace To You" ministry, and also in 2006 MacArthur made an additional $123,785 with $25,757 in benefits from "The Master's College." For proof of these figures, see page 5 in 2006 IRS Form 990 for "Grace To You" and page 5 in the 2006 IRS Form 990 for "The Master's College.

That's not counting the 10's of thousands he makes "speaking" at Churches across America.

He slanders all these preachers like Joel Osteen and Ed Young Jr. and this Pharisee is raking in the cash...what a hypocrite!!!

Pastors/elders/teachers want to be liked. Some want to be liked so much that they’re willing to entertain their hearers while preaching the Bible. They wrongly assume that because people enjoy their sermons, they enjoy Jesus as well. The problem is that if we’re seeking to entertain our hearers, then we don’t believe God or Scripture can hold the attention of God’s people. In other words, you may say “the Bible is worthy of your attention,” but if you’re using entertainment to communicate this, then you’re undercutting your message with your methods. If the Bible is worthy to be heard because God is its Author, then you shouldn’t have to use entertainment to get Christians to listen to it. You just might be entertaining your hearers to death.

Ed Young needs to read 1 Tim. 3:1."Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task. Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.

NOT A LOVER OF MONEY. All I have seen or heard from Ed Young is how much he loves the good things in life. He and his wife are the king and queen of high living. Oh, but he you say he has money but isn't a lover of money? Open your eyes people. He has turned Christianity into a profit making venture with his wife. There's no end to his lust for wealth.

One more comment. Ed Young talks about giving his 10% and then saving 10% and then the 80% is his to do with as he wants. "All for the glory of God." This is the most legalistic comment of the entire sermon. If you "do your lawful duty of giving 10%" then you are free to do with the rest as you will. Giving 10% is not a command under the new covenant. If you give because you think "the Bible commands it" then you are legalistic and you are making Christ's sacrifice of no use. This, Ed Young, is the true heresy.

A lot of the mega pastors make in excess of $500,000 per year in salary, housing and car allowances, clothing, etc. At least John has his own ministry and did not just walk into it like some ohers that do. $300,000 is really modest compared to others who seldom preach, fail to visit, and take off 10 weeks or more per year. John at least knows how to preach.

Wasn't there jealousy and differences between preachers even in the Bible? Peter and Paul? And they each had their following.

I think the basic problem today, other than human nature, is the whole she-bang is based on an ancient book written to ancient people. So you have modern people trying to apply all the different scenarios in the Bible to their real lives today; then mix in preachers with their various interpretations; then the fact that there's a lot of money to be made off of large groups of trusting and hoping people. It's a mess. And, yes, some good gets accomplished in all of it also.

It is in the public record that for the 2006 calendar year he received $123,785 for being President of The Masters College and Seminary 134. and he received $160,363 for being President of Grace To You. 135. That’s $284,148.00, not counting his church salary, book royalties and speaking fees.

Other GCC leaders are also well compensated. For 2006, the Executive Director of Grace To You, Phil Johnson, received $193,430. John Macarthur’s son-in-law, Kory Welch, as Video Production Director at Grace To You received $102,277 and other Grace To You board members received in excess of $100,000.

The leaders of The Masters College and Seminary are also well compensated with their Sr. VP, Richard Mayhue, receiving $199,211 in 2006. And the public record, though limited, shows that their Seminary Professors are also well paid with one receiving $146,882 for 2006.

In the IRS 990 form for 2009, Schedule L, in the section titled, "Business Transactions Involving Interested Persons," and listed under "Contract Services," it's shown that GTY paid $667,000 to The Welch Group Corporation. The Welch Group Corporation is a production company whose CEO and sole owner is Kory Welch, John Macarthur's son-in law. In the IRS 990 form for 2008, Schedule L, it's shown that GTY paid The Welch Group $741,000 for its services. That's $1,408,000 paid to The Welch Group from GTY for those 2 years.

I think your post was sarcasm, but actually a bar would probably have less hypocrites. Why NOT go to a bar and discuss religion with your fellow drinkers? Didn't Jesus hang with them and criticize the religious leaders?

If I hadn't known what was coming I could have predicted it. But think about this. I wonder if in Ed's warped way of thinking he was hoping something like that would happen to attract more attention. Why would he think he could ride a camel onto the stage and have someone feed it while he droned on for that long and not have something like that happen?

Personally, I will steer my children from traditional occupations and tell them they should be a mega-church pastor. They don't need a lot of education and student loans and can get rich by just telling people that the Bible says to Tithe. The mega-pastor career is the fastest track to prosperity for the silver tongued that the United States has known. Oh, and if you are a woman, follow the guy who has his sights set on this...it's your ticket to the good life and botox and jet planes and big houses. Just make sure that your womb is fruitful.

"It is a pattern when a comment makes sense and goes against New BBC that the term "troll" is used."

Obviously not true since the TROLL's comments NEVER make sense.

That's the only thing positive I can say about his idiocy. At least he's consistent.

It also makes me laugh to read comments comparing BBC to Obama when the TROLL is constantly trying to use their failed techniques: calling anyone who doesn't worship his pastor as a "hater," using the term "move on" to encourage Christians to ignore sin, etc.

Quit tearing down God's men, God is blessing these 3 men and you must be jealous.__________________________________

God isn't blessing these three men. They all got rich by taking donations and tithes and offerings given to God and to God's work, and keeping them for themselves. Think about it. Those guys need to get the "real job." Everything they own came from taking money from someone who sincerely believed they were giving "to God."

By the way, yes I am a bit jealous. I am jealous of anyone that can get so fantastically rich just by having other people give the wealth to them. Since I have to work so hard, day and night, five or six days a week, just to make it to the next paycheck...sure, I get jealous of these millionaires. I am not jealous of Bill Gates or pro athletes, or any other mult-millionaire who earned his wealth. But if you got wealthy from donations made "to God", then I have no respect for you. And yes, I am jealous.

But someone who is merely there to have their ears tickled probably wouldn't understand that.

And that is precisely the reason that we find the church in the condition it is in today.

2 Timothy 4:3"For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."

The TROLL's entertainment diatribe is quite revealing. It helps to illustrate the primary difference between the majority of commenters on this blog and himself.

The majority of commenters on this blog care about proper biblical interpretation and God's intended truth (in context).

The TROLL just wants to be entertained. To the TROLL, the truth is boring. Being BORING is a sin (his words). So, Ergun Caner is not sinning because he has been lying for a decade to churches all across the land. He is sinning when his speeches aren't exciting enough. EY Jr. isn't sinning when he preaches an improper interpretation of wealth in the believer's life. He is sinning when he doesn't bring in a camel to crap on the stage.

In other words, the TROLL is a product of our culture. It has nothing to do with Biblical Christianity.

I’m afraid that I have to disagree with Pastor Burleson on this one. Sorry brother. The eye of the needle Jesus is referring to cannot be a narrow opening in the city wall. Why? Because that contradicts scripture. How? First, the disciples were amazed by what Jesus said. As men of the world in the first century they would have known about the gate and the difficulty of passing a camel through it and therefore they should not have been amazed. Next and more importantly Jesus that “By man it is impossible.” Since as Pastor Burleson illustrated Man is entirely capable of coaxing a camel through the gate. Since Jesus did not say it was with “great difficulty,” He cannot be referring to a city gate. By natural extension of this train of thought then rich men would also be able to work their way to salvation which as we can all agree is impossible.

No,rich men (and women) are saved the same way we all are and that is by grace through faith.

"No,rich men (and women) are saved the same way we all are and that is by grace through faith."

Yep, totally agree. The story of the gate (a tale from the 15 century) does not illustrate the point that Jesus is trying to make. It rather contradicts it.

In addition, 2000 years ago the belief in Israel was that rich people were more likely to get into heaven because they were more favored by God (as evidenced by great wealth). Jesus dispels this myth with this example.

It's the same point he was making with the Beatitudes. With man it is impossible but with God all things are possible.

Good post. While at first read I really enjoyed Pastor Burleson's commentary, and had even adopted this understanding:(having heard it before,) myself; but upon further study and research into the "needle gate" theory; I am convinced that this had nothing in relationship to what the "text" presents regarding Jesus' words.Grace and Peace - Elder gab

False Teacher, Young, it is NOT biblical for you to stand up there and say: why should I feel guilty because I have been blessed financially. You are a man with a sickness and it is called the LOVE of money and PRIDE. I am thinking about my brothers and sisters in Christ in Uganda, Ghana, and Ethiopia.....they know truly know JESUS...yet they haven't been "blessed." Why is that? You truly make me SICK. I hate your ways because they are evil. God will NOT be mocked. You will NOT go unpunished.

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About Me

We're small, insignificant, and harmless. But we have a loud, piercing bark that seems to annoy those in mega churches the most. Not Kool-Aid drinkers, only fresh, filtered water, please; with Grape or Cherry flavoring from Walmart. "Let him alone; God hath bidden him to speak:"