What I find most wasteful is sitting in front of the computer without much to show for it.

When my contribution matters, people use what I do every day, then I'm satisfied.

Waste is not being creative and productive, and having your work rendered useless.

You must enjoy what you're doing to be creative and productive.

What gives me value is creating something original, that nobody else could create, present it, everyone liking it a lot, and then putting it into a real product and having thousands or hundreds of thousands of people using it. The enjoyment of knowing that you've made a beneficial contribution is good. (That's one aspect of my real job)

If you don't enjoy what you're doing, then you're wasting your life programming. Find a different career, go work at a Zoo, or join the police academy, or go work as a volunteer in poor African countries, whatever helps you to enjoy life.

But I think that programming makes you smarter and sharper while single player game-playing (and definitely TV!) makes you dumber. I have trouble respecting people who just play games all the time.

Multiplayer games are less dumb because there's interaction and competition/cooperation with people. And some movies are good because they can be inspiring.

Sorry, but that is a ridiculous notion. Programming all the time just makes you know more about programming (EDIT: Not exactly true as those skills will transfer to other areas as well.). Period. It does not make you a better chef, know more about medicine, or how to tune a car. Again, it is all about balance. It's funny, I know a brilliant programmer and a brilliant surgeon. They are two people at the top of their respective games. Both of these brilliant men can barely tie their shoes without falling over. I remember one of them asking me, during a particularly bad winter storm, how to start a snow thrower while they held the handle that said in giant red letters "PRESS HANDLE TO START".

A question. Why is it that when we see Garry Kasparov beat Deep Blue in chess, it is held up by papers all over the world as an amazing testament of the human intellect? It's just a game. However, it is a game that has had the benefit of time. Time to be accepted as a good pursuit. Video games do not, yet, have that luxury.

EDIT: Also, playing games all the time makes you dumber? Prove it. Show me. Because we actually have evidence that playing games on a regular basis can have a positive effect on other areas of competency. Like this, for example: http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2004/12/66086

So if playing games makes you better at other things, why can't programming?

Actually, Markus, you are correct. There are plenty of skills one learns in programming that transfer to other areas. Completely agree. I guess I was over rotating on the "..single player game-playing (and definitely TV!) makes you dumber." comment.

As I told in the first place, I'm not willing to stop programming . I was just wondering if I was the only one who felt I spend too much time with it .

As for the other topics this has led to, I will not try to discuss, but I must confess I own all the english I speak (and type) to Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy 6 and all those amazing SNes games . Not to mention the Steven Seagal and Chuck Norris movies which taught me how to properly swear .

However, I do believe there are activities that stimulate our brain more than others. But who told that we have to stimulate our brains 100% of the time ? We also need to have some fun !

As somebody said previously, I think the important is the balance . (Even if your balance is 70% programming and 30% doing something else)

Also, playing games all the time makes you dumber? Prove it. Show me. Because we actually have evidence that playing games on a regular basis can have a positive effect on other areas of competency. Like this, for example: http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2004/12/66086

Lol, ok well I'm not going to quote a study/journal article, but I'm sure there'd be plenty showing my point (and yours conversely! That's the trouble with academic articles).

But anecdotelly, I know many losers who have lost years of their prime youth/adulthood to dumb games, especially world of warcraft and friends. I'm sure you would too.

Yeah, I never understood why people feel that way. TV I can kinda sorta see how it'd train you to be passive, but playing games? Huh?

I recently learned a great word that sums up a person's state while watching TV - <a href="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/torpor">torpor</a>. I think many RPG games involve the same level of mental inactivity, such as the requirement to level up by repetitious actions (such as chopping trees to increase wood chop skill in Runescape).

Lol, ok well I'm not going to quote a study/journal article, but I'm sure there'd be plenty showing my point (and yours conversely! That's the trouble with academic articles).

But anecdotelly, I know many losers who have lost years of their prime youth/adulthood to dumb games, especially world of warcraft and friends. I'm sure you would too.

The video games do not have bad effects on the health on my view, these "losers" have social problems and I prefer a loser that "wastes" his time in playing with WoW than a loser drinking alcohol and beating his wife. I think that the practice of video games do not cause these social problems, please don't mix everything. I agree with ChrisM, video games have to be accepted as a good pursuit. If someone practices a sport very often, how cares? Nobody will tell him "you practice too much, you will become dumb" whereas if someone plays a lot with video games, the reaction of the people will be completely different, it is simply a kind of discrimination.

I agree with both Keith and Chris. Part of what I enjoy about playing games at this point in my life is that I do in many ways go into a torpor. I am totally focused in on this fantasy world and having a fun little challenge while I'm at it. It's a good thing to do when I want to de-stress and relax from all the regular things in life. It's the same exact release I get when I watch movies and read books (both of which I also do frequently). However, when I read I often get great ideas for stories to write (some of which I do write), I learn new vocabulary, and I often get a slightly different perspective on life. If I am watching a movie I often have the same results - I get excited about something else, stimulated to do something or learn something different. Video games are much the same way, especially because I have made a career of game programming. I get implementation ideas, I see something I admire, etc. Not to forget that my overall speed of use with a computer increases and no doubt my ability to quickly match patterns does too.

World of Warcraft and other painfully repetitious MMOs I believe draw upon the same twitch as gambling does. In fact, most stats-based or achievement-based games seem to do this on some level. "I just need to get that next level" or "I just have to get one more," are very very similar to the "just one more try" attitude of gambling. I actually agree that these sorts of games are pretty dangerous. I played WoW myself for about 3 months, and often would play for 4 hours at a time (especially when in a dungeon with 39 other players). Maybe the difference is that I hated leveling up and was only in it to see the amazingly beautiful worlds and bosses (although I'm the type of guy who really loved Endless Ocean, a game where you just swim around and look at stuff), so when they released the expansion, requiring me to spend more time leveling up, I quit. But I've been known to spend a lot of time getting stupid achievements in L4D also... so what's the balance? Are there are types of games that are nothing but bad for you? I'd definitely say no, as it completely depends on what the individual is getting out of it, and once again depends on moderation.

The video games do not have bad effects on the health on my view, these "losers" have social problems and I prefer a loser that "wastes" his time in playing with WoW than a loser drinking alcohol and beating his wife. I think that the practice of video games do not cause these social problems, please don't mix everything. I agree with ChrisM, video games have to be accepted as a good pursuit. If someone practices a sport very often, how cares? Nobody will tell him "you practice too much, you will become dumb" whereas if someone plays a lot with video games, the reaction of the people will be completely different, it is simply a kind of discrimination.

umm, practicing for a sport and playing video-games are very different. sports are good for your health, they circulate the bloodflow get hte heart pumping.

video-games may work your mind a bit, make you think quickly but too much video-games is bad for your health in an abstract way, because if you spend 1 hour playing video-games that is 1 hour you took from doing something active.

umm, practicing for a sport and playing video-games are very different. sports are good for your health, they circulate the bloodflow get hte heart pumping.

video-games may work your mind a bit, make you think quickly but too much video-games is bad for your health in an abstract way, because if you spend 1 hour playing video-games that is 1 hour you took from doing something active.

Really? How about the recent reports that the majority of professional football players are not big from exercise but are found to be obese? How about the damaging effects long term for high contact sports? How many overweight golfers or bowlers are there on professional circuits? Playing a sport does not always = health.

So, take sports out of the picture. How about professional pianists? Painters? PROGRAMMERS? Teachers? etc. You are assuming that if you didn't play a video game that you would, instead, be out running a marathon. What if, instead, you spent that hour away from a video game to read? More acceptable by a wider group of people casting judgment but equally bad for your workout routine

Here is the real issue: video game shave a bad connotation in society. One that, however, is becoming less and less "bad" over time. It is following the same exact acceptance arc that all content mediums have followed over their course to broad acceptance.

And what about active games? EA Active, Dance Dance Revolution, Wii Sports, Wii Fit, etc.? Natal and the PS3 motion controller will continue this trend (perhaps). What a video game is, is evolving and part of that evolution is shedding the outdated notions of what a video gamer "is".

Here is an interesting bit. I live in an area where American Football takes over a huge portion of people's lives. The tailgating, full days of over eating and watching 5 hours of games on Saturday and Sunday (10 hours in a weekend), grown men dressing up in their favorite team/player's jerseys, dressing their kids the same way, they discuss sports at parties, stats whenever there is a lull in the conversation, etc. and it is perfectly acceptable and normal to behave this way. Transfer the same exact actions to the video game industry and these activities become abnormal, weird and geek. Why?

The advantage of time+social acceptance. Again, this will happen in society over time, more kids talking about the games they are playing than the sports their dad's are watching.

Final note. It is all about MODERATION. You can take ANY hobby/profession too far. It is all about finding the balance in your life that makes you happy. Principal in my life, however, is how my game playing/job effect my family. If I can not be there for my wife and children, first and foremost, then hobbies go out the window. I am fortunate enough to have a relationship that allows me to have time to devote to my interests while still fulfilling my obligations (plus, being able to play video games with all of my kids means that I satisfy 2 areas of my life. BINGO!).

I always mean to program. And then I actually watch music videos, look up trivia on the Internet, and do anything except actually program. That's what really wastes time. I might learn something while I look up stuff on the Internet, but it's useless information.

I always mean to program. And then I actually watch music videos, look up trivia on the Internet, and do anything except actually program. That's what really wastes time. I might learn something while I look up stuff on the Internet, but it's useless information.

And that can mean that you are just not into it anymore. That, or you have programmer's block (much like writer's block). Same thing happens to me whenever I try to update my blog. Once I get past it, I can post a ton of stuff, but sometimes that initial block is a big hurdle to overcome...

I always mean to program. And then I actually watch music videos, look up trivia on the Internet, and do anything except actually program. That's what really wastes time. I might learn something while I look up stuff on the Internet, but it's useless information.

I tend to work in waves, which can be long or short. Sometimes I'll go for months without programming anything notable, and other times I'll be on a programming binge for just as long. It might be days, weeks, or months, but I definitely stick to cycles. Doing it for a living is now shaking that up for me a lot, but I spent some time on the train the other day drawing a sprite sheet for a Java 4k game, and I forgot how it is both very fun and very therapeutic. Sometimes you don't realize what you're missing until you go back to it.

ok say you spent the hour reading, that increases your vocabulary and understanding of whatever language you are reading in.

also, people who spend 10 hours/weekend watching football are strange, and wasting their lives, but there are so many people that do it that it becomes normal....

if everyone played video-games then it would not be considered strange.

P.S:No I do not hate video-games, I play them all of the time, I am just saying that it is a waste of time, and I know it. But sometimes wasting time is necessary in order to let your brain relax and rest so that you can be more productive at other times.

I tend to work in waves, which can be long or short. Sometimes I'll go for months without programming anything notable, and other times I'll be on a programming binge for just as long. It might be days, weeks, or months, but I definitely stick to cycles. Doing it for a living is now shaking that up for me a lot, but I spent some time on the train the other day drawing a sprite sheet for a Java 4k game, and I forgot how it is both very fun and very therapeutic. Sometimes you don't realize what you're missing until you go back to it.

thats me %100 (except for drawing sprite sheets)

as for computer games making people dumb. I remeber back when i was a wee lad using dos and windows shells,that if people asked do you know how to use computers: all you had say was "I own heeps of games".for those who didnt use (command line) dos, you had to learn stuff likes settting up config.sys/autoexec.bat for sound/mouse/ram usage, and copying games( I mean backing up) there was fun with compression to multiple disks pkzip/arj. oh the good old days.

I really cant stand MMORPG's, So with my bias I say: that there responsibile for people wasting there lives.

While I enjoy programming, it's a bit short on social and exercise and therefore I don't spend all my time doing it. Currently I go dancing for social discourse and exercise. I think it's important to do a range of stuff.

Programming exercises your mind and helps develop problem solving skills and perhaps even critical thinking. I don't think anyone can say a negative thing about that, and I have to say better problem solving skills apply to nearly EVERYTHING you do. It doesn't just make you a better programmer.

Your brain is just like a muscle, if you don't exercise it, it will not be as strong. Programming isn't the only way to exercise your brain, but I think it is one of the better ways.

On topic, I spend a lot of my time programming. I don't see it as a waste of time, I see doing anything other than your passion a waste of time. Life is too short to be doing something you don't love doing. And we have the luxury of making money with our passion. Most people end up calling their passions hobbies because there is no way to get money out of it.

Off topic, in the world we live in everything revolves around money. Commercial games are designed to be fun/addictive so you spend your money on them. TV is designed to be entertaining/addictive so you see all the advertisements they pass. Books that are published are ones thought to sell well. The sooner everyone realizes that everything mainstream revolves around money the more informed your decisions can be. Don't be surprised when you or your friends are addicted to any game, sport watching, tv watching, its designed to do just that.

Why do you think Apple designs their devices to not have removable batteries? Why do you think Nintendo comes out with so many hardware upgrade peripherals? Money (Too many off topic examples)...

If your making a commercial game, and you're not designing it to appeal to as many people as possible or entertain your target audience, then you're doing something wrong. Good thing our passion can make us money, some don't have that luxury, and most others don't even know what they love to do, which is worse.

I have enjoyed my little journey into the world of java and games programming, although i was addicted to it i have learned to keep things more balanced.

I now spend quality time with my wife when i am not working, but i cant help but thinking of how i could improve my methods and speed up certain parts of my game which i have totally ripped apart ready for round 2 in march (when wife goes back to work and she stops moaning that i spend every single second programming and learning..lol).

Have i wasted all my time learning java ?...No i am a little wiser and i learned how to do things in moderation.

No matter what you do in life, even if nothing comes from it other than entertainment its never a waste of time :O)

Well I have coded for over a decade now. I love any science, math, or engineering. So, I am not really tied to just coding or even Computer Science.

I find that code is usually a very moral and productive activity if you make it so. People could be using your code 100 years from now on interstellar ships.

While I love coding and Computer Science I do feel that I should have found a more profitable thing to do.

I don't know what else I could have done that would have kept me from being poor. So, I don't really have regrets since I have not been given a better opportunity, but I do think daily that dying poor on living on the street sucks. Who would have guessed that cheaters really do win. I feel ashamed of the unstoppable economic collapse in the U.S., and not having the wisdom to deal with tyranny better.

So, I waste my time coding because I don't really have anything else to do. I conclude that I will be wasting my time coding until I have a self replicating robot army. At that point I will feel that it has been all worth it, but not a moment before.

whenever I play a videogame. I am constantly thinking about how to implement the things that the game uses. And it drives me crazy. cause I cannot just simply enjoy the game .

I may not entirely understand where you're coming from, but if I am distracted by something I can't let go, I find it helps to write it down in a spiral bound notebook I keep for the purpose. After writing it down, I know I will come back to it later, so I don't have to worry about forgetting it.

umm, practicing for a sport and playing video-games are very different. sports are good for your health, they circulate the bloodflow get hte heart pumping.

You are deprived if a video game has never elevated your heartrate and made you feel adrenaline.

Quote

video-games may work your mind a bit, make you think quickly but too much video-games is bad for your health in an abstract way, because if you spend 1 hour playing video-games that is 1 hour you took from doing something active.

If you're talking about action games, then you're not entirely correct; action games are light exercise. Sure, sports are better for you, but games are still better exercise than reading, watching TV, or doing deskwork. Also, with both hands tied up, you can't munch on potato chips.

I hardly play any games at all these days - every spare moment of my day when I'm not at work is spent coding my games! Although I suppose that does involve playing them. Over and over and over and over and over.

I think he meant specifically that video games can "circulate the bloodflow get hte heart pumping". I can be drenched in sweat and totally fried from adrenaline from certain intense video games. In Tribes 1, the Hunter game type was the most intense of any game I've ever played. Street Fighter can do it, but it is pretty short. Some 1st person shooters can do it for me occasionally.

Though obviously nothing can replace real physical activity, I do think video games are especially good for teaching you to think under the effects of adrenaline. Normal people aren't regularly exposed to intense situations where you have to keep it together. Video games are good practice. I think this is why when I fight with my woman she loses it so easily and I have to be pushed quite a bit farther to lose it.

That said, I have seen people totally waste their time with video games. I set up Battlefield 1942 for a friend's kids and they just walked around single player maps shooting their teammates inna fork repeatedly. I thought they would eventually tire of this, but no, they ignored the entire rest of the game just to do the same stupid thing over and over. Just no helping some people. :p

I think this is why when I fight with my woman she loses it so easily and I have to be pushed quite a bit farther to lose it.

I'm pretty sure that's NOT the explanation of this...

Me, I've always dreamed of making a living off of these infernal machines. Started with making games on the C-64 when I was 13. Of course lacking resources to learn assembler I stalled out at 14. I'm still on this path today working on various mISV projects in hopes of launching something I can make a living from.

Bill Gates is a perfect counter example of this 'wasting your life pgming' idea; for those who don't know the Microsoft story started with a BASIC interpreter Gates wrote and ported to a bunch of the new fangled 'micro comuters' back in the day with the Apple II being the most succesful prominent. Get that? A BASIC interpreter. Do you know how f*cking simple a BASIC interpreter is to write? Especially the crappy BASIC of those days? That trivial product, plus a shark like instinct for business (can't discount that) was the at the root of a $BILLION$ business.

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