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But don't forget, a gymnasium (spelling) floor is specially made with give and flex and rubber-like piles under the wood so that it's a lot harder to damage yourself (volleyball).

Try the same actions with badly designed kneepads on concrete or a wooden stage and you might find a lot of problems with your knees later in life.

I'd just like everyone to be aware that knees are the "forgotten spine" of injuries. They cause so many problems and mobility issues and health hazards, but few people hear about it until it happens to them.

I would hate any of us to serious compromise their mobility simply because they didn't understand the context of how to fall from reading it on HoP...

HoP Posting Guidelines* Is it the Truth?* Is it Fair to all concerned?* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Posted:3rd Sep 2003I will be buying my duras sometime this week but I did want to have some fun with peg stilts as well.

I KNOW that everyone says to make them but I was thinking that it might be easier to throw some $$$ and have someone else make them who actually knows what they're doing. I just get the feeling that I would make a pair and then say "gee I wish they were a little more centered" and "if I had the right tools I could make them better" and a million other problems with them. I'm sure there are people that have been making peg stilts far longer and better than I would and since they are easy, they can't be that expensive... any ideas?

Posted:3rd Sep 2003I posted a design above and I made them in an hour or 2. I believe, having built them that my weight will be perfectly centred though I could be wrong. If you have a jigsaw I'd say make 'em yourself. You could probably get a carpenter to make then too (if they use the design exactly, as any caprenter should easily be able to do, there should be no difference) but they might be worried you sue in case of breakage and injury, plus you'd have to make sure they understood the importance of follwing the design exactly...

I dunno if there's people who actually make stilts that you could buy them from, but it'd be interesting having them delivered...

Posted:4th Sep 2003For info (if anyone's interested ), I have solved the problem of connecting the top of the stilts to my legs. I'm going to buy some piping of suitable diametre and cut it in half and attach the velcor to that

Posted:4th Sep 2003HOOO-HAAAAA! I just got back from Burning Man and I saw lots of stilts there.A couple of guys had powerskips and OMFG they are awesome! They could jump and bounce like on a trampoline and they could run at incredible speeds. Gina and I were sooooo jealous with our trash can stilts. Others had even cheaper stilts made of 5 gallon plastic buckets.There were several stilter events at BM, one of which was "stilter hour" at the stilter bar. The bar was about eight feet off the ground. You had to be on stilts to reach the bar, but if you could you got free gin and tonics.Sound like a good idea? Giving free drinks to people on stilts?I took a dive whilst heading home after three drinks. It was hard enough stilting on the uneven dirt of the playa, but the drinks didn't help any. I did a proper breakfall to the side but still hurt my ankle, hip, and groin. (I was fine enough to firedance later that evening )Had I just dropped straight down on my kneees I probably would have broken them both.

Posted:5th Sep 2003First of all, let me assert that I am not against kneepads, or any kind of padding. Proper padding only makes a proper breakfall better. Also, I'd like to support Charles admonition that vollyball is played on flexing gymnasium floors (or sandlots, also more forgiving than sidewalks). Those spongy kneepads they use are not strong enoungh to fall on.A proper breakfall would be a sidefall where you bend at the knees as you go down, spreading the impact over space and time. Throw your arm out high and slap the ground. Your head, knees, and tailbone should never touch the ground. Technically speaking, in karate, judo, jujitsu, and aikido, the fall is called "Yoko-sutemi-tani-otoshi" or "Valley Drop."

Posted:5th Sep 2003Cheers Maximus...That's the technique I've been trying to tell them about, but everyone seems to thnk if they have the right kneepads then nothing will go wrong.

At the end of the day, there is only so much impact padding can absorb. What is owrrying me is that people seem to think that some kneepads will absorb ALL of the impact and they don't need any other falling training.

I've seen first-hand what happens when people don't have training...no problems for 2 years and then, suddenly, stuffed knees and two broken wrists!

HoP Posting Guidelines* Is it the Truth?* Is it Fair to all concerned?* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Posted:5th Sep 2003You don't need to be shattering your knees to stuff them up seriously, just a small number of minor impacts now might screw them up in a few years time.

Also, do you really feel you won't be using taller stilts in the future? Because if you do, and you have a habit of falling onto you knees without spreading the impact, it's unlikely that you will be able to break that habit %100 of the time.

I'm sorry for sounding like a doom-monger (love that word). But I worry when people think that just because they haven't hurt themselves in an obvious way, doesn't mean they aren't doing irreversible damage.

Especially talented and wonderful people like you, NYC.

HoP Posting Guidelines* Is it the Truth?* Is it Fair to all concerned?* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Posted:6th Sep 2003NYC...my niece tripped and broke her knee trying to land kneeling on tile two years ago. She was wearing her volleyball pads at the time, it was in the locker room during a practice.In *any* fall you are not supposed to land on your knees directly, padded or unpadded.

Maximus and Charles, from what I have seen this fall looks almost like a crouch and fall to the side, yes/no? You're arm that will hit the ground is stretched so as to help spread out impact as well as to protect the head from hitting the pavement?

NYC, you would never tell a newbie to light up with all the proper safety protocal. I would expect the same respect for yourself as you learn something new as well.There are a bunch of stilt resources as well as several in NYC. Check out a performance/clown website, any number of performers from the Coney Island listing, or even check with the Big Apple Circus and see if you can get a couple of pointers. Hope that helps!

Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Actually, I honestly don't anticipate wanting higher stilts. I'd really prefer to make a decent costume and stilt walk with the intent of perhaps spinning some poi. I'm planning on putting some decent padding on the knees since I'll need big 'pants' anyway.

I would, however, love any safety advice for a part time stilt walker. Don't worry, I'll never quit my day job.

One of the reasons why I had been taking this so lightly is the height of the stilts.

Pele, let's not exaggerate. There is no way I'm going to burn down a night club and kill hoards of people if I fall wrong on my stilts. People ski, mountain bike and do other things that put their knees at risk. Besides, your niece has taught us that even standing can be dangerous and yet I continue to reclessly do that.

No seriously, I will look into any information about stilts in New York and I'll get on them knowing that I could injur myself even though I'll wear lots of padding. And if I break my knees then you all get a dollar.

Though if anybody FINDS any advice or information, I'll clearly take it.

Posted:5th Sep 2003Oh no...<images of that Fuel Use thread flashing before my eyes>...NYC and Charles arguing again...everyone run for cover...

NYC, there are thousands of ways you could trip in your stilts, burn down a night club and kill hordes of people.

You could knock over a fire dancer on the way down. You could give a party goer a fright, who then stumbles back into another one whose hair gets pushed into someones cigareete, catches light and sets fire to the wall and tablecloth.

You could catch the edge of a tablecloth, pulling a candle and some spirits off the table, that could ingnite each other and set the floor on fire...

Lots of different ways, really.

But, I think i might be in danger of just making a stupid point instead of contributing to this thread any longer.

You are still a talented and wonderful peson, NYC, and i'm a stupid git...

HoP Posting Guidelines* Is it the Truth?* Is it Fair to all concerned?* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Posted:6th Sep 2003You guys are all on crack. Yes, I can imagine that while stilt walking in central park I could trip and fall, knocking over the hundreds of people that have lined up in a domino formation all the way downtown across 5 avenues and 25 streets into a club which just happened to be open on the sunday afternoon that I was stiltwalking in the park and tip over one of the gasoline buckets that they always keep there which would ignite from one of the welding torches of the guy that was fixing his muffler in the corner of the club and kill everyone.

I am dangerous. I am one of those people who ruins it for everyone else by falling down in an empty park and killing hundreds of firefighters.

C'mon kids. I'm on a pair of durastilts in a park. Gimme a friggin break.

Posted:6th Sep 2003Besides Charles, are you suggesting that by learning how to properly fall you have become trip proof? If the girl on extacy decides that your knees are god you're going to fall and, according to you, kill us all.

Learning how to properly fall will decrease my chances of injury to myself if I fall. Period.

Posted:6th Sep 2003Sorry kids, I am taking offense to the implication that me, stiltwalking, is endangering others because I don't know how to fall properly. That's a false implication and a bit rude.

If the suggestion is that a beginning stilt walker shouldn't be in crowded clubs in the first place, that's obvious. But me falling on my knees rather than my side while in a park isn't going to burn your little sister to death.

NYC you are reading way more into this than what is there, and you are putting rude implications where there are none.

The point is that you wouldn't want anyone to pick up something potentially dangerous and just do it without learning how to protect themselves.It's the same with you. Stilts, no matter how short can be dangerous in a fall, to you and people around you. Instead of just running around and hopping up on them, wouldn't you rather learn how to protect yourself properly? Just like you would tell any of your spinning newbies, or your chemical mixing students? There are alot of things in this world that we do blindly that can injure us, so why add one more to the list?

We are just looking out for your knees. You want to fall on them and break...that is your perrogative.

Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Posted:6th Sep 2003NYC, just remember - knees never heal properly. Even a slight injury (which I suspect is most likely) can cause trouble for years to come. You simply can't get off your knees to let them rest. My father injured his knee over a decade ago and it's still giving him trouble... and all he did was bang it against the side of a boat avoiding a jellyfish.

Posted:6th Sep 2003I've just read Maximus' post on how to fall:- quote:Originally posted by Maximus:

A proper breakfall would be a sidefall where you bend at the knees as you go down, spreading the impact over space and time. Throw your arm out high and slap the ground. Your head, knees, and tailbone should never touch the ground. Technically speaking, in karate, judo, jujitsu, and aikido, the fall is called "Yoko-sutemi-tani-otoshi" or "Valley Drop."

peacefully yours,Maximus Ego Was wondering if Maximus or anyone else could clarify this?

i.e. I'm not sure how you can bend at the knees and not land on them. Or do you land on them and then roll to the side?

I'm not asking for me, I'm scared of stilts; but I thought it might be useful to get the falling method clear for everyone.

"You can't outrun Death forever.But you can make the Bastard work for it."

Posted:8th Sep 2003ok and here's another view...i've always been told - and have used twice when either tripped on stilts or been pulled down (Berlin Love Parade '02-love that crowd interaction!) - that when you fall on stilts the idea is to bend at the knees and lean way back...this leaning back (with straight back) slows your fall and when you land your thighs absorb the impact with your muscles.

My biggest fear when falling is that I'll put my hand out, so falling to my knees in this way prevents that and I don't find it all that uncomfortable/dangerous.

Okay, so what I did is incite a HUGE debate. I am on another performance board that deals with circus peeps primarily, so I asked what they thought on this whole falling thing. WOW! They are currently debating between this sit back falling thing, and a valley drop. They will be videotaping this weekend and put them up....

However, they all agree that knee pads and a knee drop are the fastest way to injure yourself from even the lowest of stilts.And, NYC you are talking about stilting as if when you are on them people will stay away from you, and that any accident you have you will be clear to go down, that walking in a park is not like walking in a crowded club. Maybe there is a bigger area but let's look at this....Gravel. Slippery ground covering. Holes that you can not see for whatever reason. Children who are fascinated. Idiots who are...well...idiots (an acquaintence recently related a story when stupid kids thought it would be fun to run and dive between his stilts. He went down hard but was uninjured.). There are alot of variables, and we are trying to watch out for you...speaking of which...

In actuality I have always seen, that stilters walk with "ground clowns", someone who tries to run interference or crowd control.

Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Posted:9th Sep 2003quote: However, they all agree that knee pads and a knee drop are the fastest way to injure yourself from even the lowest of stilts. Ug... OK, I will not wear kneepads and will try my hardest to fall backwards to avoid the knees altogether.

Pele, you are still confusing the issue. If I do a breakfall on a child I'm still going to hurt them. If I fall perfectly on top of another fireperformer I am still going to reak havoc. If an idiot runs up to a professional stilt walker and tackles him, he could still fall on an elderly woman. I don't see how learning how to fall properly is going to affect any of the factors you have set up. I don't see the paralel between me telling a newbie to spin fire without safety and me stiltwalking in a park. If you are implying that all stilting is dangerous to the people around them, fine. If you're implying that I am more dangerous to children because I don't know how to fall properly, then I disagree. A beginner stiltwalker is going to be a beginner stilt walker. If a child grabs my stilts, or steps in front of my car, or drinks a beaker of acid, they are going to get hurt. And I will try to be careful when dealing with all three.

Again, the ONLY thing which learning how to fall properly will prevent me from doing that not knowing how to fall will not prevent me from doing is hurting my knees, which IS important but does not affect all of the other factors which have been thrown at me.

Does anyone have any information on what, specifically, I can do to prevent injury? Not a vague 'learn how to fall' or 'do it right' but actual specifics on how to do that?

Posted:9th Sep 2003quote:Originally posted by Pele: I have heard that one too Knoxious.

Okay, so what I did is incite a HUGE debate. I am on another performance board that deals with circus peeps primarily, so I asked what they thought on this whole falling thing. WOW! They are currently debating between this sit back falling thing, and a valley drop. Is it a public forum?

Would be interesting to have a link to that thread and see what they reckon the best falling method is.

"You can't outrun Death forever.But you can make the Bastard work for it."

Posted:9th Sep 2003NYC, are you missing the point? You just asked for specific things to keep you upright, after I gave you a list of things to look out for and one of the largest things you can do to keep on your feet is have someone around to watch your back. You are reading between the lines and missing points, again. You know I love you but chill.

I also never said not to wear knee pads. They are an excellent idea for those just in case moments.Speaking of which, in a dance routine my troupe and I are doing, we need knee pads. One of the girls is married to a hardwood floor installer.Their knee pads are awesome. They have this gel stuff in them that takes the brunt of the blow and really buffers things. They have padding in them as well, so it is double protection. And very importantly, they stay put through alot of wear. I had never concidered these before so I thought I would offer it as an alternative option!

Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK