NostroZ:Not sure where subby gets his info from... but Israel will be America's number one ally when it comes to cyber-security and prevention of these types of info leaks in the future.

As far as weapons sales, well, all I found was that Israel cancelled it's sale to China in 2000 over US concerns.

I know it's hard to understand this... but Israel is it's own country... China is its own country... please try to realize that other people in the world have wills just like you.

So? They agreed to protect US technology when we shared it with them and to not export it without US approval. If they can't live up to their agreements then we should stop providing them with our technology. Not to mention that it's intellectual property that doesn't belong to them so they are basically stealing from US companies.

Try "Googling Israel sells US secrets to China" and look at all the incidents that come up.

vpb:So? They agreed to protect US technology when we shared it with them and to not export it without US approval. If they can't live up to their agreements then we should stop providing them with our technology. Not to mention that it's intellectual property that doesn't belong to them so they are basically stealing from US companies.

Yeah... it's too bad... would be a lot easier to steal/replicate the technology without any of the diplomatic niceties like China does.

I agree... Israel should not accept ANY US military aid and to compensate for loss of sale, be allowed to sell the highest grade military equipment to anyone they deem profitable (Venezuela, Fark rebels in Columbia, Cuba, Afghanistan, etc.)

It's not like Israel didn't survive without America before, it will survive without America again... no biggy... just don't hate on Israel when it's clear that China is the one that wants the technology at any cost.

NostroZ:vpb: So? They agreed to protect US technology when we shared it with them and to not export it without US approval. If they can't live up to their agreements then we should stop providing them with our technology. Not to mention that it's intellectual property that doesn't belong to them so they are basically stealing from US companies.

Yeah... it's too bad... would be a lot easier to steal/replicate the technology without any of the diplomatic niceties like China does.

I agree... Israel should not accept ANY US military aid and to compensate for loss of sale, be allowed to sell the highest grade military equipment to anyone they deem profitable (Venezuela, Fark rebels in Columbia, Cuba, Afghanistan, etc.)

It's not like Israel didn't survive without America before, it will survive without America again... no biggy... just don't hate on Israel when it's clear that China is the one that wants the technology at any cost.

So, admitting that Israel undermines US national security and steals the intellectual property of US companies is "hating on Israel"?

I think Israel could survive without US aid too, and they would if they didn't have such a powerful lobby. If Israel can't stand on it's own two feet after 65 years then it's time to admit that the whole thing was a mistake.

NostroZ:vpb: So? They agreed to protect US technology when we shared it with them and to not export it without US approval. If they can't live up to their agreements then we should stop providing them with our technology. Not to mention that it's intellectual property that doesn't belong to them so they are basically stealing from US companies.

Yeah... it's too bad... would be a lot easier to steal/replicate the technology without any of the diplomatic niceties like China does.

I agree... Israel should not accept ANY US military aid and to compensate for loss of sale, be allowed to sell the highest grade military equipment to anyone they deem profitable (Venezuela, Fark rebels in Columbia, Cuba, Afghanistan, etc.)

It's not like Israel didn't survive without America before, it will survive without America again... no biggy... just don't hate on Israel when it's clear that China is the one that wants the technology at any cost.

Except, you know, without all that airlifting an weapons and stuff....

Darth_Lukecash:Except, you know, without all that airlifting an weapons and stuff....

In 1947/48... War of Independence... Really?Citation Needed.

We're not talking about after the six day war in the 60s, after which America realized that Israel has some nice military technology and would be a useful strategic ally... you'll have to provide a bit more than your presumptive word.

That's an especially silly argument. The Chinese do it too, so it's OK for Israel, even though Israel sells military technology that compromises our defense in ways that an iPad doesn't.

Not at all... I am deeply saddened when I read about the Patriot missiles being sent to China in 2011 by Israel. They said they would not share the technology and they did... which is bad... but what's WORSE is China actively trying to STEAL that technology... they did the same with Pakistan and the stealth helicopter that crashed when seal team six did the OBL raid. Pakistan sold the plane and any scraps to China. That's double standards.

In this article there is no mention of Israel... only China doing hacking... yet subby mentions Israel and all we're talking about is Israel... you see what I mean about double standards.and how some people LOVE to HATE on Jews... even when they are NOT MENTIONED, they will be brought in to scapegoat the hate.

NostroZ:Darth_Lukecash: Except, you know, without all that airlifting an weapons and stuff....

In 1947/48... War of Independence... Really?Citation Needed.

We're not talking about after the six day war in the 60s, after which America realized that Israel has some nice military technology and would be a useful strategic ally... you'll have to provide a bit more than your presumptive word.

vpb:NostroZ: Darth_Lukecash: Except, you know, without all that airlifting an weapons and stuff....

In 1947/48... War of Independence... Really?Citation Needed.

We're not talking about after the six day war in the 60s, after which America realized that Israel has some nice military technology and would be a useful strategic ally... you'll have to provide a bit more than your presumptive word.

Yes, we are talking about after the six day war, the Yom Kippur war in particular.

I have never understood the claim that Israel is an important strategic ally. Against what?

What are they going to do, help us defend Israel?

Okay, so we're agreed then... AFTER the 60s the US started caring/helping Israel.

Please educate yourself before you claim the US helped in the War of Independence, or anytime before the 60s... Israel is its own country with or without the US help, get used to it, the Jews are not your pets to chose if they can live or die.

In this article there is no mention of Israel... only China doing hacking... yet subby mentions Israel and all we're talking about is Israel... you see what I mean about double standards.and how some people LOVE to HATE on Jews... even when they are NOT MENTIONED, they will be brought in to scapegoat the hate.

So if I don't want to give $3 billion a year to someone then I am anti-semetic? I don't want to give that to France either, so I am....what? Anti Gallic?

And you are the one who turned this into an Israel thread. What did you think spouting all that nonsense was going to accomplish?

In this article there is no mention of Israel... only China doing hacking... yet subby mentions Israel and all we're talking about is Israel... you see what I mean about double standards.and how some people LOVE to HATE on Jews... even when they are NOT MENTIONED, they will be brought in to scapegoat the hate.

So if I don't want to give $3 billion a year to someone then I am anti-semetic? I don't want to give that to France either, so I am....what? Anti Gallic?

And you are the one who turned this into an Israel thread. What did you think spouting all that nonsense was going to accomplish?

The subby is the one who chose to make this about Israel, not me...

BTW, you don't give shyat to Israel, your government does... the same goes with Egypt, Pakistan, Columbia, and the over thousand military bases you have around the world. All financial decisions your were not and will never be consulted on.

In this article there is no mention of Israel... only China doing hacking... yet subby mentions Israel and all we're talking about is Israel... you see what I mean about double standards.and how some people LOVE to HATE on Jews... even when they are NOT MENTIONED, they will be brought in to scapegoat the hate.

So if I don't want to give $3 billion a year to someone then I am anti-semetic? I don't want to give that to France either, so I am....what? Anti Gallic?

And you are the one who turned this into an Israel thread. What did you think spouting all that nonsense was going to accomplish?

The subby is the one who chose to make this about Israel, not me...

BTW, you don't give shyat to Israel, your government does... the same goes with Egypt, Pakistan, Columbia, and the over thousand military bases you have around the world. All financial decisions your were not and will never be consulted on.

Anyone remember that rant about the "**AAs tryin' to use viruses on people who download music" written by Cory "stallman" Doctorow from yesterday in the entertainment tab? Yah, this sort of shiat is what that commission was really writing about. Still pissed that little piss-ant tried to hijack that and turn it into a rant against the entertainment industry. Way to go twit, you are the reason america is cratering, all because you don't want to pay for your entertainment.

NostroZ:Darth_Lukecash: Except, you know, without all that airlifting an weapons and stuff....

In 1947/48... War of Independence... Really?Citation Needed.

We're not talking about after the six day war in the 60s, after which America realized that Israel has some nice military technology and would be a useful strategic ally... you'll have to provide a bit more than your presumptive word.

So, what's the next step for the US? Will it start arresting and prosecuting the people responsible? I'm assuming these plans are taken from US-based companies. I had hoped the Chinese would have backed off after their corporate espionage was exposed.

dopirt:So, what's the next step for the US? Will it start arresting and prosecuting the people responsible? I'm assuming these plans are taken from US-based companies. I had hoped the Chinese would have backed off after their corporate espionage was exposed.

Why would you think that? China will do what china does for China alone.

NostroZ:Please educate yourself before you claim the US helped in the War of Independence, or anytime before the 60s... Israel is its own country with or without the US help, get used to it, the Jews are not your pets to chose if they can live or die.

I hate to break it to you, but I don't owe Israel. In the Yom Kippur war Israel would have gone under is the US hadn't saved it. If anyone owes anyone anything then it's Israel that owes us, not the other way around.

I wish I could say that the USA was it's own country and that we aren't your "pets" as you put it, but there seems to be a massive lobby called AIPAC that says otherwise.

I'll stop "hating on Israel" when Israel stops sucking $3 billion per year out of my country and selling it's technology to foreign countries. Oh, and spying on us too,

Darth_Lukecash:NostroZ: Darth_Lukecash: Except, you know, without all that airlifting an weapons and stuff....

In 1947/48... War of Independence... Really?Citation Needed.

We're not talking about after the six day war in the 60s, after which America realized that Israel has some nice military technology and would be a useful strategic ally... you'll have to provide a bit more than your presumptive word.

And here's my dropped citation

Citation is lacking in proof. The US was supportive politically of the creation of a state of Israel... but they did not send troops to help create the state or defend against ALL the states that attacked the Jews when their country was declared real. This hatred of the Jews and their country is so strong 17% of the UN still does not recognize Israel as a country.

The US supported Israel as a form of 'acquiescence' to the British and their Balfour declaration (since they owned that land prior). Secondly, the political motivations were as follows, in the link you provided: root causes of American interests in the region: the Soviet threat, the birth of Israel, and petroleum.

Notice that anti-soviet and oil is the lead and end to America's interest about Israel... it's politically strategic, but it's not done out of some moralistic need to help Jews and NO AMERICANs fought on behalf of the US in Israel during the War of Independence. Weapons were not dropped in, supplies NOT provided, aid NOT sent... that's after the 60s and Israel fought off a few wars at that point.

Get real about politics my friendly Farker.Israel is a pawn against the soviets and a bishop to safeguard the oil.

NostroZ:vpb: So? They agreed to protect US technology when we shared it with them and to not export it without US approval. If they can't live up to their agreements then we should stop providing them with our technology. Not to mention that it's intellectual property that doesn't belong to them so they are basically stealing from US companies.

Yeah... it's too bad... would be a lot easier to steal/replicate the technology without any of the diplomatic niceties like China does.

I agree... Israel should not accept ANY US military aid and to compensate for loss of sale, be allowed to sell the highest grade military equipment to anyone they deem profitable (Venezuela, Fark rebels in Columbia, Cuba, Afghanistan, etc.)

It's not like Israel didn't survive without America before, it will survive without America again... no biggy... just don't hate on Israel when it's clear that China is the one that wants the technology at any cost.

What universe do you live in where Israel existed without help from the united states?

vpb:NostroZ:Please educate yourself before you claim the US helped in the War of Independence, or anytime before the 60s... Israel is its own country with or without the US help, get used to it, the Jews are not your pets to chose if they can live or die.

I hate to break it to you, but I don't owe Israel. In the Yom Kippur war Israel would have gone under is the US hadn't saved it. If anyone owes anyone anything then it's Israel that owes us, not the other way around.

I wish I could say that the USA was it's own country and that we aren't your "pets" as you put it, but there seems to be a massive lobby called AIPAC that says otherwise.

I'll stop "hating on Israel" when Israel stops sucking $3 billion per year out of my country and selling it's technology to foreign countries. Oh, and spying on us too,

You're not 'breaking' anything to me in stating that you feel you owe nothing to Israel.

You are causing some alarms to say that you wish the USA could be it's own country and was not a pet of the Jews.

That is some real old world antisemitism that I'd like you to get checked. It reminds me of the Jobbik party in Hungary and how they feel the Roma and Jews have parasited on their country.

Darth_Lukecash:dopirt: So, what's the next step for the US? Will it start arresting and prosecuting the people responsible? I'm assuming these plans are taken from US-based companies. I had hoped the Chinese would have backed off after their corporate espionage was exposed.

Why would you think that? China will do what china does for China alone

I think that because as of late the Chinese government has been getting caught repeatedly engaging in corporate espionage. The US has been quite vocal about wanting China to knock it off. The president, I believe, even talked about it. China did curtail some of it's hacking, but this puts it front-and-center. The next US action, I think, is to start plugging the leaks states-side. I don't think China wants it's spies arrested and their computers seized and scrutinized. It can only....

You know what, this thread is not about this at all. Forgive my transgression.

NostroZ:Darth_Lukecash: NostroZ: Darth_Lukecash: Except, you know, without all that airlifting an weapons and stuff....

In 1947/48... War of Independence... Really?Citation Needed.

We're not talking about after the six day war in the 60s, after which America realized that Israel has some nice military technology and would be a useful strategic ally... you'll have to provide a bit more than your presumptive word.

And here's my dropped citation

Citation is lacking in proof. The US was supportive politically of the creation of a state of Israel... but they did not send troops to help create the state or defend against ALL the states that attacked the Jews when their country was declared real. This hatred of the Jews and their country is so strong 17% of the UN still does not recognize Israel as a country.

The US supported Israel as a form of 'acquiescence' to the British and their Balfour declaration (since they owned that land prior). Secondly, the political motivations were as follows, in the link you provided: root causes of American interests in the region: the Soviet threat, the birth of Israel, and petroleum.

Notice that anti-soviet and oil is the lead and end to America's interest about Israel... it's politically strategic, but it's not done out of some moralistic need to help Jews and NO AMERICANs fought on behalf of the US in Israel during the War of Independence. Weapons were not dropped in, supplies NOT provided, aid NOT sent... that's after the 60s and Israel fought off a few wars at that point.

Get real about politics my friendly Farker.Israel is a pawn against the soviets and a bishop to safeguard the oil.

While it is true that no American fought or weapons supplied by the government they did supply political backing. So its untrue that Israel would have survived without the backing of US. Israel did get help from the US, the most it could attempt due to the cold war.

It's important to remember that The US just got done fighting in a war, and the population resources was exhausted. And more importantly, we didn't want the Russians to get directly involved.

The vital importance was for the US that the area didn't go commie: they didn't care who ran it or how.

dopirt:Darth_Lukecash: dopirt: So, what's the next step for the US? Will it start arresting and prosecuting the people responsible? I'm assuming these plans are taken from US-based companies. I had hoped the Chinese would have backed off after their corporate espionage was exposed.

Why would you think that? China will do what china does for China alone

I think that because as of late the Chinese government has been getting caught repeatedly engaging in corporate espionage. The US has been quite vocal about wanting China to knock it off. The president, I believe, even talked about it. China did curtail some of it's hacking, but this puts it front-and-center. The next US action, I think, is to start plugging the leaks states-side. I don't think China wants it's spies arrested and their computers seized and scrutinized. It can only....

You know what, this thread is not about this at all. Forgive my transgression.

What... Spying between allies?China is our number one economic trading partner as said by Bill Clinton himself... how can this be? What will be the consequences?Should we think about the intricacies of politics and state sponsored spying.... Or.... Blame the Jews!

The choice is simple... if you want to stop thinking and find blame... it's easy... Okkkaaayy.

Darth_Lukecash:While it is true that no American fought or weapons supplied by the government they did supply political backing. So its untrue that Israel would have survived without the backing of US. Israel did get help from the US, the most it could attempt due to the cold war.

It's important to remember that The US just got done fighting in a war, and the population resources was exhausted. And more importantly, we didn't want the Russians to get directly involved.

The vital importance was for the US that the area didn't go commie: they didn't care who ran it or how.

Right, so we're all in agreement then... America helped Israel politically in 1948, meaning, no guns, no airlifts, no troops, no boats... just a recognition that yes, Jews ARE allowed to have a piece of land on this planet. Which is still a radical thought to some people it seems.

dopirt:Darth_Lukecash: dopirt: So, what's the next step for the US? Will it start arresting and prosecuting the people responsible? I'm assuming these plans are taken from US-based companies. I had hoped the Chinese would have backed off after their corporate espionage was exposed.

Why would you think that? China will do what china does for China alone

I think that because as of late the Chinese government has been getting caught repeatedly engaging in corporate espionage. The US has been quite vocal about wanting China to knock it off. The president, I believe, even talked about it. China did curtail some of it's hacking, but this puts it front-and-center. The next US action, I think, is to start plugging the leaks states-side. I don't think China wants it's spies arrested and their computers seized and scrutinized. It can only....

You know what, this thread is not about this at all. Forgive my transgression.

Let's make it about China, not Israel.

I'm not sure China cares about hurting our feelings. They are preparing for wars over natural resources. They have full intentions of making sure their way of life reigns surpream.

NostroZ:You're not 'breaking' anything to me in stating that you feel you owe nothing to Israel.

You are causing some alarms to say that you wish the USA could be it's own country and was not a pet of the Jews.

That is some real old world antisemitism that I'd like you to get checked. It reminds me of the Jobbik party in Hungary and how they feel the Roma and Jews have parasited on their country.

Funny, so far you're the one equivocating "Israel" with "Jews," and have been for most of the thread. Almost as if it were a convenient dodge for deflecting criticism of that nation and its practices...

The political "pets" comment- which was itself merely quoting you- was in reference to AIPAC. You know, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee? Unless you'd like to go ahead and explicitly claim that any comment on Israel is of necessity a comment on all Jews, you should probably stop using them interchangeably.

NostroZ:Darth_Lukecash: While it is true that no American fought or weapons supplied by the government they did supply political backing. So its untrue that Israel would have survived without the backing of US. Israel did get help from the US, the most it could attempt due to the cold war.

It's important to remember that The US just got done fighting in a war, and the population resources was exhausted. And more importantly, we didn't want the Russians to get directly involved.

The vital importance was for the US that the area didn't go commie: they didn't care who ran it or how.

Right, so we're all in agreement then... America helped Israel politically in 1948, meaning, no guns, no airlifts, no troops, no boats... just a recognition that yes, Jews ARE allowed to have a piece of land on this planet. Which is still a radical thought to some people it seems.

Fair enough, in glad to see that you realize israel birth had some US support, and I recognize that Israel did Their fighting on their own.