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Re: Unohana is being REALLY useless right now

Originally Posted by Saint Markus

@SuperSaiyan4, so Unohana is "useless" because she hasn't attempted to save your favorite character and blah, blah, blah, blah?.

p.s., Okay, if Mayuri barely knew anything, then how did Urahara know about the "Bankai Stealing" method that he explained to Ichigo?. And correct me if i'm wrong, when did Urahara even find out about the situation with the Vandenreich and Soul Society?.

Fact is, the Captains were warned about using their Bankai against the enemy and Byakuya jumped the gun. period. As Nodt was wounded enough, for Byakuya to use "other methods" in fighting. Um, isn't Byakuya well skilled in "Kidou Arts" and "Shunpo". He used these techniques very, very well against Zommari (7th Espada) in Hueco Mundo, but here against a Quincy, he automatically needs to unleash his most powerful technique?.

Plus, he did this before against Tsukishima and barely won. Against a Fullbringer at that.

Truth is, Byakuya was overhyped by Kubo and you can't take it.

Shunsui (or even, Ukitake) over Byakuya's prideful a$$, any day. Pride always equals defeat, when relied too much on, but don't go blaming Unohana, who's had more experience on the battlefield and seen more tragedies than Byakuya ever has and accuse her for being useless or soft. Even, Aizen was hesitant to attack her, when he revealed his true colors.

Be patient yo, Unohana will show you, who she truly is in a battle, just as Yamamoto just did.

p.s., You can't teach me how to debate. It's my opinion versus yours and we both as Bleach fans just think differently about the manga and the characters. PEACE.

1. You really didn't read what I said have you? Byakuya is not my favorite character. Hitsugaya is

2. Urahara probably saw the Arancar that faced off with Ichigo before the Quincy went to Soul society? Perhaps Urahara observed the nature of how that badge thing worked while Mayuri never even got a glimpse of the device that was used against VC Sasakibe? Perhaps Urahara just knows it b/c he's Mr. Know-it-all? And Urahara found out about the Quincy and Soul Society when Ichigo received a call from him.

3. Again, I am referring to what Byakuya said, himself. Why would he say that he can't defeat his enemy without Bankai when he is the only one clearly aware of his own limits in his skills using Kido or Flash step? I am using what is written in the Manga. You are pulling baseless assumptions out of nowhere. As to why he thought that, perhaps he assumed that using any kido based attack will just be absorbed by the Quincy after learning about their ability to subjugate Reishi (from Mayuri perhaps from his fight against Ishida).
And Nodt wounded? He got small cuts on his arm. Are you aware how much damage a character has to suffer in order to be considered "injured" when you consider what other characters went through during past fights?
- The only warning the captains got was that their bankai would be rendered useless. The real reason why Byakuya lost at all is because his bankai was stolen and was used against him. He risked losing his Bankai (did not risk it being used against him), in the hopes of regaining his control over his weapon in his battle against his enemy, who he clearly states that he cannot defeat without a Bankai.
-As for his fight against Tsukishima, you do remember that captains and VC have their Reiatsu lowered to 1/5th of their maximum power? Perhaps a bankai was necessary to fight a skilled fighter, even for a captain?

4. Again, I do not care for Byakuya. I care for logic and sensibility. I think you, yourself, are being butthurt by me criticizing YOUR favorite character, perhaps?

5. Aizen was not hesitant to attack Unohana. Why would he considering that Unohana was under his illusion? Speaking of pride, I would say that Aizen did not see any reason to kill Unohana, as he did not see any reason to finish off Ichigo or Komamura on the Sogyoku hill. His primary objective was to retrieve the Hogyoku, not eliminate every captain that he comes across.

6. Byakuya did not lose because of his "pride." it was not his pride that drove him to sacrifice his Bankai. It was his determination to protect Soul Society (to quickly develop a strategy to overcome the Quincy's measures against their Bankai) that led to his bankai getting stolen, and thus to his defeat. Besides, your statement, "pride equals defeat," is not always true, considering his very victory against the 7th Espada.
Moreover, you miss my point. Regardless of whether Byakuya dies or not, this does not change the fact that Unohana is not doing ANYTHING. There is a difference between biding for time/preparing/waiting for opportune moment and just waiting serenely in a godforsaken room while thousands of her subordinates die by the second.

P.S. It seems that you are completely confused about the point of a debate. It is just a discussion between two opposing thoughts, like what we are doing here. What you fail to do is bring forth arguments that are accurate and are supported by the source material.

Isnt it possible, that byakuya dies,,,, but gets revived by unohana, so what if his zanpaktou blew away in ashes. ok so he flatlined, cant she bust out the kidu shock paddles and bring him back.

Its not like he got cut in half, his body is mostly intact.

also this makes me wonder why his bankai hurt him so badly? I guess he doesnt truly accept his power so it can hurt him. its like the opposite of FGT training.

If all the dead people get resurrected, it would definitely undo all the emotional atmosphere building and impact that Kubo worked for the past several months.

Even if you train to be super strong, you have to consider the reality of thousands of blades poking at you from thousands of directions, not once, but twice. You can think of it as that Kuchiki honed his "offense," but his "defense" sucks.

Re: Unohana is being REALLY useless right now

Urahara actually saw kirge trying to steal ichigo's bankai and he also saw kirge while he screamed "WHY CAN'T I STEAL YOUR BANKAI".

As far as byakuya, he did use other stuff to beat zomari but to what extent does it apply to ass nodt? We have seen a few kido byakuya uses in battle. Byakurai, sokatsui, rikujokokuro and danku. Byakurai works in close range to deal little damage. Was there a practical point in byakuya using this? If he tried he would have been shot by nodt's holy arrows each of which seems objectively more power and more damaging than byakurai. Sokatsui would perhaps have been better but it is still a low level kido and he has to deal with a quincy in the range area. Perhaps would have worked in conjunction with something else but at a range it is more than probable that nodt would have had time to set up his bluts. RIkujokokujo would perhaps have been interesting but I doubt it would have worked for long against a fully powered nodt. He used it against renji, who was weak to begin with and zomari after taking on the full might of his bankai. I doubt it would have been as effective against nodt. Danku works against powerful high level kido like attacks however nodt showed nothing against which this would have been useful. Even if byakuya used it to block the holy arrows there is the issue that nodt can simply move around it and spam them. Now, byakuya did get past nodt's blutz with his shikai but there is the consideration that blutz can be strengthen and we did see nodt straight up blocking byakuya's sword with blutz later on.

It is important to consider the fact that the captains were not aware that bankai could be stolen, they thought that bankai was only sealed. The gamble the captains made on their bankai was to figure out how to break the seal. If bankai was only being sealed it made more sense that they would have several captains trying to break the seal than not having any of them doing that. I mean, most captains would have eventually needed bankai to deal with volstandig anyways. So what were the captains supposed to do? Even if they had only 1 captain figuring out the facts it would have also meant they were planning for a lone captain to lose his bankai and gambling that that lone captain would figure out how to break the seal. In turn they had 4 captains working on how to break the seal which if they had been right about the seal would have meant 4 times as many chances of figuring out how to break the seal. So the issue is not that the 4 captains used bankai to try and break the seal, the issue was that the assumption that bankai was being stolen was wrong to begin with.

I don't think unohana has the power to revive people. What she does is simply medicine, she cannot do stuff standard medicine cannot do. Resurrecting people is as far as we know beyond what standard medicine can accomplish so we should assume unohana cannot in fact do that. The only one who we know for a fact to be able to do such a thing is orihime who goes well beyond the realm of medicine with her abilities. As far as reviving characters though I think we should focus on what batch said the last chapter. If he could bring back ichigo after basically beheading him them bringing back other chapters as his servants would be possible too. It would be very interesting if byakuya's body is taken and he is brought back as a vandereich member. Even if his bankai was stolen he could easily have it returned if he is brainwashed or perhaps even be given quincy abilities.

Re: Unohana is being REALLY useless right now

lol ...lots of byakuya fanboys crying over him...cursing unohana "why did you not heal byakuya... we dont care if everyone else dies...just heal byakuya"... for a healer/doctor every life is equally important...its not about who is a captain and who is not... such lame arguments ... get your thought process right first...and let byakuya go in peace...he is done for now...

Re: Unohana is being REALLY useless right now

Originally Posted by dex

lol ...lots of byakuya fanboys crying over him...cursing unohana "why did you not heal byakuya... we dont care if everyone else dies...just heal byakuya"... for a healer/doctor every life is equally important...its not about who is a captain and who is not... such lame arguments ... get your thought process right first...and let byakuya go in peace...he is done for now...

I can deal with Byakuya dying a righteous death, which he did. He's just been featured way too much.
What I CAN'T deal with is a "healer/doctor" not doing anything to help ANYONE.

Re: Unohana is being REALLY useless right now

Oh you did NOT just go there. May there be Dishonor on your family! Dishonor on your cow!

On a more serious note, I take it that you couldn't bring forth a good counterargument to my latest points. I will be taking your personal jabs as a sign of your defeat. Good day, good sir. May Unohana choke on her own hair while she sleeps.

Re: Unohana is being REALLY useless right now

I can deal with Byakuya dying a righteous death, which he did. He's just been featured way too much.
What I CAN'T deal with is a "healer/doctor" not doing anything to help ANYONE.

i agree on the point that kubo dragged his death a lil bit...first 2 pages of this manga could have been perfect as last 2 pages of previous one...but its ok since he was one of the major characters...
about not healing anyone...tell me if there is a war then will the doctors heal people in midst of a battlefield or heal them when they are brought to the medical camp ? its same here...and we cant say that she didn't heal anyone...that part has not been focused on coz its obvious...why will kubo focus on unohana healing some random people when there is lot more interesting stuff to show...

Re: Unohana is being REALLY useless right now

Originally Posted by SuperSaiyan4

What I CAN'T deal with is a "healer/doctor" not doing anything to help ANYONE.

Do you know more than we do? If anything there is no hint that she isn't doing whatever is in her might to help those wounded Shinigami, not one, not two and neither a dozen, but hundreds of wounded shinigami in different states. There is no good reason for her to abadon all those in need for one or two fan favorites. Why should she leave the already handicapped guys/gals without safety so one character can be healed for your pleasure?... Think things through before posting more wrongheaded statements and assumptions.

Re: Unohana is being REALLY useless right now

Originally Posted by SuperSaiyan4

Oh you did NOT just go there. May there be Dishonor on your family! Dishonor on your cow!

On a more serious note, I take it that you couldn't bring forth a good counterargument to my latest points. I will be taking your personal jabs as a sign of your defeat. Good day, good sir. May Unohana choke on her own hair while she sleeps.

you didn't make any points, it's just you complaining about "little Byakuya" not getting healed by Unohana.

p.s, I believe more in Frosty the Snowman's powers than Hitsugaya-chan's Bankai. Technically, Frosty is more reliable in a battle than Snowboy. lol.

Re: Unohana is being REALLY useless right now

By the time ichigo headed for SS we already had well over 2000 casualties. Then by the time yamamoto got killed the stern ritern made a point of calling those soldat things and they destroyed every building and remaining shinigami through sheer numbers. More so, the soldat destroying every building should have had an effect on the 4th squad barracks. So it is not as much as unohana not doing her job as much as it is a situation of her not having anyone to actually heal. And of course, healing someone in the middle of a war zone would be kinda complicated without at least someone reliable watching her back which kotetsu isn't.

To be fair, hitsugaya does have a pretty good record when it comes to battles. He did have trouble with shaolong but that was only because he was limited to a fifth of his power. Later on we actually saw him come up with a pretty good way to deal with the sexta espada at the time and a fraction of his bankai power did seal harribel until wonderweiss helped her out. Of course, hitsugaya has suffered a number of defeats against aizen but then again, who hasn't? Even shunsui along with shinji and soifon got their asses handed to them by him.

Re: Unohana is being REALLY useless right now

you didn't make any points, it's just you complaining about "little Byakuya" not getting healed by Unohana.

p.s, I believe more in Frosty the Snowman's powers than Hitsugaya-chan's Bankai. Technically, Frosty is more reliable in a battle than Snowboy. lol.

Nope Nope Nope Nope Nope. I argued that Unohana is not serving any purpose or playing any roles in this war, to the point that it is ridiculous when she is literally a medic. You pretty much argued that this was not true by saying:
1. I am (allegedly) just pissed that Byakuya is dead
2. There are other people supposedly not doing anything, so Unohana just standing by is justified
3. Unohana is unable to help/reach those in need of healing.

I countered this by saying
1. I don't like Byakuya
2. Others are fighting in battles while others are on their way to help or in a position where they are unaware of the war that's going on in Soul Society
3. There are those, including Rukia and Renji, that are not near enemies at the moment. If Unohana is badass as you say she is, there should not be any reason why she cannot help those in need.

Most atrocious aspect of this reality is that she is literally a MEDIC. Why can't she treat those in the battlefield, just as she treated the captains in the fake Karakura town during the Aizen arc?

You did not put forth any compelling or legitimate argument as to why Unohana is NOT being useless. That's why you lose mr Troll.

Do you know more than we do? If anything there is no hint that she isn't doing whatever is in her might to help those wounded Shinigami, not one, not two and neither a dozen, but hundreds of wounded shinigami in different states. There is no good reason for her to abadon all those in need for one or two fan favorites. Why should she leave the already handicapped guys/gals without safety so one character can be healed for your pleasure?... Think things through before posting more wrongheaded statements and assumptions.

you really do need to read carefully.
1. None of the characters that have died so far are my "favorites."
2. There are no indications that she is treating ANYONE. YOU are making baseless assumptions here. From what we do see is that Rukia, Renji, and Byakuya, among many others, are left injured and near death, while we are only shown a couple panels showing Kotetsu and Unohana having idle conversation. If I witness any indication that the 4th division is fully occupied with treating the injured, I will concede, but there is NOTHING to indicate that Unohana is doing anything useful. The fact that the main firepower of the 13 divisions comes from the captains and the only picture that we are shown is Unohana standing by while the 13 divisions lose its main fighters, then the only legitimate conclusion that can be drawn is that Unohana is not TREATING ANYONE.

i agree on the point that kubo dragged his death a lil bit...first 2 pages of this manga could have been perfect as last 2 pages of previous one...but its ok since he was one of the major characters...
about not healing anyone...tell me if there is a war then will the doctors heal people in midst of a battlefield or heal them when they are brought to the medical camp ? its same here...and we cant say that she didn't heal anyone...that part has not been focused on coz its obvious...why will kubo focus on unohana healing some random people when there is lot more interesting stuff to show...

She is a "medic." Medics provide emergency medical care under battlefield conditions. That's what the 4th division is trained to do. She is trained to provide treatment in the absence of hospitals or equipment, as shown when she restored Ichigo's reiatsu as they were traveling from Hueco Mundo to Karakura town, and as she treated the injured captains and Hiyori after their fight against Aizen.

As for "why will kubo focus on unohana healing some random people when there is lot more interesting stuff to show,"

for the several panels Kubo decided to show Unohana during the battle, Unohana is shown just standing by. There is no indication that there are patients being treated or that Kotetsu and Unohana, herself, is participating in the process.
When you form the argument that "she COULD be treating someone, we just don't get to see it," that is a baseless argument. What we ARE shown is that Unohana is not doing anything. That is what bugs me.

Re: Unohana is being REALLY useless right now

Well, I understand those who say that it's really strange that Unohana isn't doing anything in this War so far. She neither fights, nor treats anyone.

Also I understand the talk about Byakuya dieing, when he might have been easily saved. As we know Captains are the most important part of Gotei. Even Vice Captains in SS Arc were refered by Yama as "easily replaceble", so for SS to loose even one Captain during such a War is a loss, but they lost Byakuya, lost Yama (who seems to be stronger than most of the current Captains combined) and also like three of those Captains who are still ok lost their Bankais to Quincies, so the actual power of the current Gotei went down several times, thus Unohana really seems useless for now.