Originally posted by dMrYou're remembering the Carl/Rick/Shane showdown a bit funky. Rick killed the jeebus out of him. Carl didn't shoot Shane because Rick couldn't, except in the sense that Rick simply had no idea Shane was 'sneaking' up on him (which wasn't unreasonable given that he'd just killed him 30 seconds previous).

Rick was the only one to know that everyone was infected with walkerism. No one else had a clue that someone could die without walker participation and turn. And even if Carl was forewarned, he still had to put down his surrogate dad. He saved his dad in doing so because he once again broke the rules. "Stay in the house, Carl" became a cliche of the show. Once again he doesn't, and he saves the day. He broke his dad's rule (again), and it was the right decision. Carl can only see the benefits of shooting first because, in each situation, he's doing it for the good of the group.

Originally posted by Matt TrackerRick was the only one to know that everyone was infected with walkerism. No one else had a clue that someone could die without walker participation and turn.

I think it was pretty clear that Shane was a zombie when Carl shot him. That really wasn't ambiguous at all. The situation in which Carl shot the kid was a little less straightforward than Herschel made it out to be, but I think these sorts of 'moral dilemmas' are intentionally done.

Originally posted by Tenken347What you're missing, though, is that the show explicitly said that it was this way of thinking that turned Phillip into the Governor.

Personally, I think Phillip was pretty damaged before the apocalypse - but I definitely think that the point of his character is that the apocalypse gave him the opportunity to become the monster he always wanted to become, with the point being that the decent and good people are less likely to survive than the morally corrupt. Rick was suffering over the dilemma to sacrifice one person and eventually chose against it at great risk. The Governor barely gave a thought to slaughtering the very people he claimed to be fighting to protect the moment they ceased to blindly obey him,

Originally posted by jfkfcit really didn't make sense why at least Martinez just got in the truck after the Governor turned on his posse. A few episodes ago, they were creating a "Martinez is their version of Daryl" vibe, so I think that if Rick had snapped and mowed down Glenn, Maggie, Hershel, etc, Daryl wouldn't have fearfully just followed him like a little puppy.

In Martinez's defense, he DID just see anyone who even hinted at not following the Governor get gunned down by said Governor. Gov's current gun may have ran out of bullets, but he's now sitting in the truck that I'm sure had more than a few more weapons in it.

Also, Martinez may be their version of Daryl, but there can be only one Daryl Dixon.

I don't really mind Carl killing the kid either given the circumstances. 30 seconds before, that kid would have happily killed Carl, Herschel, Beth, and whoever else he saw. There's no "takesies backsies" in the zombie apocalypse.

When AMC was advertising that "27 people die tonight! Who do you think it will be?" I made the joke of "Herschel, Milton, and 25 extras". I had no idea how close I would be.

I think that's a big reason for the backlash against this episode. It was a fine, even a really good episode. However, it was hyped up as "the war". A war where two entire groups of civilian armies, each of which have never fired a gun without managing to get a headshot on their target, were completely unable to even graze the other side. "The war" was a letdown, and that led to a lot of people feeling robbed.

I was shocked they were getting another new guy in charge of the direction for the show next year, but seeing the finale and just the direction of the show for the past few weeks, I think it's needed. They even copied the idea of "Have the black sheep die in the second to last episode, then promise bloodshed in the next one". Shane went out around the same time in the season as Merle did, to the minute. It's not a big deal, but I don't like that they were running out of storyline ideas that quickly, no matter how small.

As for Andrea's death, she went out like she lived: As an idiot. I don't think a single person watching could believe she would actually be taking breaks to chat, much less that she'd have the dexterity of a lamppost. If they had another scene in there, showing the Governor breaking her leg, smashing her fingers, something, it would have made it more believable.

The group has to live in the prison rather than Woodbury. Rick's group isn't big enough to defend the walls of the town, and Gov killed anyone that was able-bodied enough to help them defend it. Head to the town, ransack it. Bring back whatever you want to make prison life more desirable, but then abandon Woodbury.

The final scene almost seemed like it could have been a series finale instead of a season one. The enemy (Woodbury) has been defeated, everyone's living together in safety, and they can rebuild and wait out the walkers falling apart. It's as close to a happy ending as I think we're going to get from this show.

Originally posted by Tribal ProphetThe final scene almost seemed like it could have been a series finale instead of a season one. The enemy (Woodbury) has been defeated, everyone's living together in safety, and they can rebuild and wait out the walkers falling apart. It's as close to a happy ending as I think we're going to get from this show.

I have no idea what they will go for next in the TV story, but post-Woodbury is where I thought the comic story started to get really good. Everything before Shane's death was a prologue, Woodbury/Prison was a short teaser plot for what the Walking Dead could be, and everything after is the meat of the story as far as I'm concerned.

I was pretty underwhelmed by this one, except for the scene with the Governor gunning down his group. That was great and I was not expecting it. I'm hoping he gets dealt with for good early in the next season. As good a character as he is, I'm bored by the dynamic by now and there are so many other ideas to explore.

I was pretty underwhelmed by this one, except for the scene with the Governor gunning down his group. That was great and I was not expecting it. I'm hoping he gets dealt with for good early in the next season. As good a character as he is, I'm bored by the dynamic by now and there are so many other ideas to explore.

One last thought. I actually was relieved Andrea died. I know the show goes through periods where they want to get more like the comics, and so long as Daryl's alive, Andrea doesn't really have her comic book place.

Daryl is Rick's right hand man. He's the badass, and the crack shot. For Andrea to really find her comic book place, they'd have to kill off Daryl to make room. With Merle gone last week, I really thought they might have Daryl go down in a blaze of glory, avenging his brother's death.

Plus I had all I could take of her "Excuse me?" face with her, Carol, and Dale back in 'The Mist'. Is Carol now the last survivor from the Frank Darabont era?

Originally posted by Matt Tracker And even if Carl was forewarned, he still had to put down his surrogate dad. He saved his dad in doing so because he once again broke the rules.

I honestly think this is stretching things.The only reason Rick was in the least bit of danger was because he was distracted by his son who should've been in the F'N house. If Carl isn't there, Rick has to face one walker. Even if Walker Shane is somehow tougher than a regular walker, Rick just killed him in human form despite literally bringing a knife to a gun fight. He'd have been just dandy.

"Stay in the house, Carl" became a cliche of the show. Once again he doesn't, and he saves the day. He broke his dad's rule (again), and it was the right decision.

"Stay in the house Carl" became a cliche because he kept breaking rules and shit got fucked up, not because day-saving at the hands of rule-breaking Carl ensued.

Were it not for Hershel being a helpful sort things would not have worked out so well for Carl during season two, and arguably many of the problems in that season could've been avoided if everyone was a bit more open and honest with one another so it's not like Carl's only seen the benefits of being a 'shoot first ask questions later' kind of a dick.

Besides, even if you totally buy into that line of thinking, he couldn't have just winged the kid?

Originally posted by oudomBad news for you, The Governor returns to Season 4 as a series regular

I liked the finale, and like the Governor, but this saddens me. I'd rather they at least move on from this dynamic for a while. A year of the Governor plotting his evil revenge on Rick I can do without.

Originally posted by Tribal ProphetI was shocked they were getting another new guy in charge of the direction for the show next year, but seeing the finale and just the direction of the show for the past few weeks, I think it's needed. They even copied the idea of "Have the black sheep die in the second to last episode, then promise bloodshed in the next one". Shane went out around the same time in the season as Merle did, to the minute. It's not a big deal, but I don't like that they were running out of storyline ideas that quickly, no matter how small.

We'll probably never know, since Glen Mazzara doesn't seem to be talking. But my suspicion is that it's the other way around. Politically correct quotes from him hint that he *wasn't* getting to do things the way he wanted to. That he *didn't* have the kind of control that he felt he needed &, for that matter, deserved, having turned things around as spectacularly as he did. It's not clear to me when in the course of filming the second half of this season things started to go south, but from watching the episodes, I think we can guess. There was also a point where Mazzara stopped tweeting - he had been very chatty pimping the show, & that stopped quite abruptly, I think while they were still filming. It also isn't clear whether the problem was with the network or with Robert Kirkman (or both). Although it does seem pretty clear that most of the cast was really happy with Mazzara, & he's where the bulk of the awesome episodes came from.

I've been baffled why I wasn't more shocked when the Guv mowed down all "his people". Did the show do too good a job of portraying how unhinged he'd become, so it wasn't really all that surprising? Having watched it a couple of times, I'm coming to the conclusion that it was badly, weakly, impotently filmed &/or edited -- certainly as compared to previous "big" scenes, like the barn slaughter. It seemed really sanitized compared to the level of gritty gore that's the vibe of the show. There were continuity errors. There wasn't enough blood. We only saw a couple of guys actually get shot. It was very much as though somebody vetoed what they were allowed to show. This bodes very badly for the post-Mazzara era.

The shootout at the prison was confusing. Once we see the prison seemingly deserted, we have to figure that (a la Morgan) they'd set up some kind of booby traps. And the "trap" was all about scaring the Woodburians off, with a bit of walker-offensive weapons. The only ones of "us" that we saw during the whole thing were Maggie & Glen in their riot gear. That there wasn't much killing of the general Woodburians was OK with me -- we're sticking with a moral principle that we really don't want to kill the "civilians" that the Guv dragooned -- I'm OK with that as a long-view strategy. I have no clue where Rick, Daryl, Michone & Carol sauntered out from after the Woodburians bailed. But I have to think that if we'd had some more marksmen out in the yard shooting, that they'd have had a chance at hitting the prime strategic targets (the Guv, Martinez, & the other adjutant).

On the other hand, I did love the Guv using women & anybody else as shields as he was running away. :-)

And the Conan appearance was awesome! (They're good actors, to stay so well in character in that situation!) :-)