This particular trip is rather noteworthy as it was full of 'firsts'. My partner and I decided that it was about time we went on a proper vacation. We've done plenty of 2-3 day city breaks (SFO, EYW, BRU, OSL and the like) but we'd never actually gone and done a real vacation. The opportunity presented itself not long after I started my new job with FR which was rather fortunate. I decided to take the first 2 weeks of February off work. Deciding where to go was a bit of a challenge. It was quickly decided that we should go somewhere warm and sunny (no brainer on that one).

We quickly decided that South Africa was the place for us. After asking for a few recommendations here on A.net and from friends who had visited SA, we decided on flying down to Jo'burg, spending the night there, continuing to Kruger Park for a 3 day safari, returning to Jo'burg and flying down to PLZ the next day, driving across SA to Mossel Bay where we'd spend the night, and then onwards to Cape Town for 3 days before flying CPT-CDG-BHX.

Once the destinations were decided, we looked at various airlines operating the routes, I checked AF, and saw that the A380 was on the JNB route, and there was no contest. I'd seen the A380 for the first time at MCO, and then a few years later at LAX, but never got to set foot on one. We decided that +10hr flights in economy would be a bit too uncomfortable so opted for Premium Voyageur which had just been installed on the A380 fleet. This would also be my first trip with AF.

After what seemed like an eternity (only 4 weeks in reality, but I'm an impatient person) the date finally arrived, and I was just as excited for the vacation, as I was the flights to/from SA.

The crew were very efficient and professional, the cabin was very clean and in very good condition. A soft drink and biscuit were served, the last drinks were served just as we began our decent into CDG.

The weather was cloudy, misty and cold, we touched down on runway 8R (I think). We pulled up to the gate at Terminal 2E, where we had to wait for 10-15 minutes before a ground agent arrived to position the airbridge. Once off the aircraft, we made our way to our next gate, where we were just in time to see our A380 being towed into the gate and prepared for departure to JNB.

With a few hours to spare, we made our way to the AirFrance Lounge, which was almost completely deserted. We made use of what little (though delicious) food that was on offer, along with copious amounts of gin, and champagne. After 2 hours or so, we both became a bit bored and decided to go for a walk around the rest of the terminal. There were only a couple of flights departing from 2E that late in the evening, they were all AF flights, aside from our JNB flight the others were off to TLV, EZE, SGN, GIG, GRU & SIN.

Deserted AirFrance Lounge

After more wandering, we made our way back to the gate area which had filled up by in the 45min or so we'd been gone. Boarding was called, and we made our way to the upper level as our seats were on the upper deck. Boarding the A380 with a multi-level triple airbridge set up is amazing, something that made most pax stop and say "wow".

We taxied extremely slowly around Terminal 2E, waited at a few intersections, before we noticed that we had made a U-Turn and the captain announced that we had to return to the gate due to a technical problem. Once back at the gate, it was another 20-30 minutes before we were informed that the one or more fuel pumps were not working. After 2 hours, we finally pushed back again, and commenced an extremely slow taxi around the airport, past T1 to the deicing pads. Once deiced, we were cleared for take off and finally started rolling. Take off felt extremely slow, and it felt as though we were very low and slow to climb for the first 10-15 minutes or so.

After returning to the gate.

Obligatory legroom shot.

Mood lighting while waiting to push back a second time.

The crew were finally released and handed us menu cards, the options if I recall correctly were lamb and beef. A drink service commenced quickly followed by the meal service. We were all handed a meal tray and not even asked our preference, as far we could see, everyone received chicken with rice. The meal was just ok. Since AF-KL are the same company I expected the meals to be quite good (I've always enjoyed the KL offerings) but that was not the case. I think part of my apathy towards the meal was probably down to the fact that it was 4AM and I just was too tired to eat.

The seats were extremely uncomfortable, neither of us were able to sleep more than an hour or so. The headrests were an inconvenience and the seat would be best without them. The footrests were rather cumbersome to use and provided no added comfort. As we were in an exit row, the tray tables were in the arm rests, and were rather small compared to those fitted to the other seats. The seat was the most disappointing element of the flight, even though we had considerable leg room, it was absolutely impossible to get comfortable. By the end of the flight we both had neck and back ache. On a positive note, I'd like to point out that the storage areas - a large compartment running along the cabin wall and over head space was more than sufficient. The amenity kit, while simple, was a nice touch and the noise canceling headphones were great.

The IFE worked quite well, although I didn't actually use it a great deal. I just played around with it and explored the features before I settled for reading a book. Towards the end of the flight, both of us filled out the survey and let AF know exactly what we thought of the seats.

Breakfast was served which consisted of a selection of ham, cheeses and bread. I was actually hungry by this point and rather enjoyed it. The crew asked us to not open the window shades, which irked me a bit as I like spend more time looking out the window than anything else - so I had to settle for watching the tail cam on the IFE.

Breakfast was delicious

On approach to JNB

mium Voyageur">
A very uncomfortable seat. You can even see the plastic behind the cover.

Landing in JNB was rather uneventful, we arrived on runway 3R just behind a TAAG 777. Everyone was off the aircraft relatively, however there was quite a bottle neck in the terminal once the queues from both airbridges converged. There was further congestion at immigration as the aforementioned TAAG flight had arrived at the same time. There were a lot of people pushing and cutting in, after an hour and a half we were finally through and at the Gautrain station heading to our hotel in Sandton.

All in all I'd rate the whole experience as 'average' at best. The service on the BHX-CDG sector was excellent, and the crews on both sectors were very professional and efficient. I definitely would NOT recommend Premium Voyageur for reasons already stated. I doubt I'd fly long haul with them again.

Unfortunately there is no return trip report or a report for our flight JNB-PLZ, as 3 days into our vacation I became rather unwell, so I wasn't really in the mood to take notes and lots of pictures. I will say the Comair/BA service JNB-PLZ was excellent. Our return trip CPT-CDG-BHX was operated by a 772 (F-GSPQ). On check in at CPT we tried to upgrade to Premiere to try and avoid a repeat of the flight to JNB, however the cabin was fully booked. Jokingly, we even tried to 'downgrade' to Y (the seats looked a lot more comfortable) but that cabin was also completely full.

I would like to say that I absolutely loved South Africa, the people that we met there were so friendly and welcoming. I would love to return there in a couple of years and explore the country further and stay for longer. 10 days simply wasn't enough to see/do everything.

If you'd like to check out any of my other photos from the trip, including pix from flights to/from CPT and PLZ the link is posted below.

Quoting MCO2BRS (Thread starter):The seats were extremely uncomfortable, neither of us were able to sleep more than an hour or so. The headrests were an inconvenience and the seat would be best without them. The footrests were rather cumbersome to use and provided no added comfort. As we were in an exit row, the tray tables were in the arm rests, and were rather small compared to those fitted to the other seats. The seat was the most disappointing element of the flight, even though we had considerable leg room, it was absolutely impossible to get comfortable.

I flew just over a month ago on a AF 777 on route CDG-HKG on the Y+ (Premium Voyageur) and I have to say I agree in the most part. However, when I compare it to flying in Y I'm guessing you get a plus service when flying on Premium Voyageur and the price difference between Y+ and J is quite a lot.

Thanks for sharing. There were not many reports on Premium Voyageur before, guess now there is.

I read your report earlier today, and that reminded me that I hadn't posted this report . My partner flies with AF long haul frequently, and he definitely prefers Y over Y+ perhaps the fact that our seats were bulkhead/exit seats had something to do with it.

I will say that our return trip CPT-CDG on the 772 was about 10% more comfortable than the outbound.

Congrats on scoring the A380, although a bit of a shame that AF didn't live up to your expectations. I've only had good experiences on them, and the service has always been good especially the meals. Overall AF have the best Y meals in the industry, but that may have changed now as they've introduced the á la carte menu. I.e lowering the quality of the standard meal in order to make people purchase the premium ones.

Quoting MCO2BRS (Thread starter):The crew were very efficient and professional, the cabin was very clean and in very good condition. A soft drink and biscuit were served, the last drinks were served just as we began our decent into CDG.

A shame that they put you in the regular Y cabin, I thought premium voyageur got to sit in front of the curtain on EU flights. At least that was the case last time I flew AF around 10 months ago.

Quoting MCO2BRS (Thread starter):With a few hours to spare, we made our way to the AirFrance Lounge, which was almost completely deserted.

Were you able to access the lounge for free with the Y+ tickets, or did you have to pay for it?

Quoting MCO2BRS (Thread starter):The seats were extremely uncomfortable, neither of us were able to sleep more than an hour or so.

On the adverts the seats looked very nice and comfy, although a shame that they proven not to be. Were they equal in comfort to a standard Y seat?

All in all, it seems like AF delivered a rather mediocre product. In my opinion I see no point in opting for Premium Economy. The massive premium is simply not worth it, when the only things you get are a slightly enhanced seat (giving some escalated expectations, due to the massive overprice), and often times the same meal as in Economy. It's possible to find cheap Business Class tickets for the same, or not much more than the price of a premium Economy. And the only airline who do actually deliver a decent Y+ it seems are TK. With proper seats, proper meals, and a pricetag that actually makes it worth paying (i.e only a small premium over the standard Y).

It is only really of any benefit on a day flight when staying awake watching movies. Forget trying to sleep in it - it's awful. I actually found the Y seat on the 773 (ten abreast) more comfortable for sleeping than Premium Y on the A380.

If you fly by day, and don't plan on sleeping, perhaps you will find the extra cost worth it.

Quoting signol (Reply 5):I'm sorry you became ill. Do be aware that parts of Kruger can be malarial, it might be worth checking with your doctor.

Loving your destination pictures on Flickr Woolworths is very common in SA, a kind of equivalento to Marks and Spencer.

The very first thing I did on my return to the UK was to see a doctor. I was sent to hospital immediately (as I was showing all signs of having malaria). Thankfully it turned out to be something far less serious, and was cleared up within a few days of getting home. I had taken about 500 pictures, but uploading them all to Flickr seemed a little excessive. I miss seeing Woolies in the UK, so seeing it there was a bit of nostalgia, hence the pic

Quoting LH4116 (Reply 6):Were you able to access the lounge for free with the Y+ tickets, or did you have to pay for it?

Quoting LH4116 (Reply 6):On the adverts the seats looked very nice and comfy, although a shame that they proven not to be. Were they equal in comfort to a standard Y seat?

My partner accessed the lounge for free, and we paid with FlyingBlue miles for me, I don't recall how much it cost unfortunately. According to my partner, the standard Y seat is more comfortable than the Y+ seat - he flies long haul with AF quite regularly, usually in Y.

Quoting LH4116 (Reply 6):Were you able to access the lounge for free with the Y+ tickets, or did you have to pay for it?

I tried this at CDG with my Y+ ticket (coming from HKG and CCS) without success. It's only for J or above pax as I was told (or depending the Frequent Flyer status of course).

Quoting LH4116 (Reply 6):The massive premium is simply not worth it, when the only things you get are a slightly enhanced seat (giving some escalated expectations, due to the massive overprice), and often times the same meal as in Economy. It's possible to find cheap Business Class tickets for the same, or not much more than the price of a premium Economy.

Like I mentioned before (maybe it's just the case for ex-CCSAF flights) the difference between Y, Y+ and J is massive (Example: CCS-CDG-HKG is somewhere bewteen Y: 9.000 VEF, Y+: 15.000 VEF, J: 32.000 VEF). As you can see from Y+ to J is more than double, but like I said maybe is for ex-CCS or South American flights, I'm sure you can get J deals in Europe.

For me it's something beyond the seat. Using Priority Lines for Checking in and Boarding, having your luggage tagged as "Priority", being elegible for J upgrades (As I understand that discounted Y tickets often don't get), extra luggage allowance, amenity kit. I'm not elite on FlyingBlue or SkyTeam so this is added value to me.

I agree with all of you 100% on the uncomfortable seat, I just think that there's more to AF Y+ than that. I honestly haven't tried the Y seat on AF long-haul but I guess it may be a little more comfortable except for the tiny screen for the IFE.

Quoting MCO2BRS (Reply 8):My partner accessed the lounge for free, and we paid with FlyingBlue miles for me, I don't recall how much it cost unfortunately.

Interesting, I suppose normally FlyingBlue Gold members can bring a guest free of charge. Mileage cost for lounge access is around 3500 I think

Quoting mvecchi4 (Reply 9):As you can see from Y+ to J is more than double, but like I said maybe is for ex-CCS or South American flights, I'm sure you can get J deals in Europe.

I did check up some fares today from ARN to BKK on AF. Cheapest Premium Y was around €1800, whereas Business on the same dates was €1600. Very strange indeed! Nevertheless Y+ may serve some purpose, i.e to provide some extra value for the money for those business travelers who are forced to fly on full fare Y tickets for their long haul journeys, i.e an added bonus. But true as you say, it all differs from country to country, which pricing they chose to offer.

I'm going to assume by your profile that you are airline staff (not AF) and traveled on a pass or Zed fare, or just reduced rate. As retired staff from an airline out of business, I'm very thankful for airlines giving me great discounts. I think I would be very hard pressed to fly on a carrier, that has given me great discounts, and then bad mouth them on a trip report. When I was in DC with Eastern, AF was very kind to us and we would get tickets reading F/Y, ie First if available then Y. No J class then and no upgrades for miles, status etc. I traveled the world with them and never had a problem. Except of course in Paris where the agent gave me a green boarding pass, and I questioned space available in F. She said I was inelligable and I referred to my ticket and she gave me a red card and muttered something in French I didn't understand. AF employees were not entitled to F. Point is, when you buy a full fare ticket you can express your thoughts. Otherwise sit back, relax, chill and say thank you.

I do work for an airline, obviously not AF, and travelled as a regular passenger on a standard W ticket. I don't get any concession, special fare or pass from any airline (not even my own, most of the time). If I had been travelling on a discounted ticket, I assure you that would have been made clear in the TR. Having said that, I wouldn't sugar coat it if I received poor or substandard service.

As it was, the full cost of this trip came out of my own pocket, so as you say, I'm entitled to express my thoughts in full.

Quoting MCO2BRS (Thread starter):The crew were finally released and handed us menu cards, the options if I recall correctly were lamb and beef. A drink service commenced quickly followed by the meal service. We were all handed a meal tray and not even asked our preference, as far we could see, everyone received chicken with rice. The meal was just ok. Since AF-KL are the same company I expected the meals to be quite good (I've always enjoyed the KL offerings) but that was not the case. I think part of my apathy towards the meal was probably down to the fact that it was 4AM and I just was too tired to eat.

That is terrible. I mean, at that ungodly hour people really want to sleep instead of eat, and I can understand that the delay may have also created some frustration among the crew members, but I think the rudeness is inexcusable. Plus, if no other meal was available, perhaps it would have been wiser to just not distribute menu cards at all. At the minimum, the crew should have explained or apologized about the non-availability of the offered choices.

Quoting MCO2BRS (Thread starter):The seats were extremely uncomfortable, neither of us were able to sleep more than an hour or so. The headrests were an inconvenience and the seat would be best without them. The footrests were rather cumbersome to use and provided no added comfort. As we were in an exit row, the tray tables were in the arm rests, and were rather small compared to those fitted to the other seats. The seat was the most disappointing element of the flight, even though we had considerable leg room, it was absolutely impossible to get comfortable... I definitely would NOT recommend Premium Voyageur for reasons already stated. I doubt I'd fly long haul with them again.

That is terrible. I have been wanting to try AF's Premium Voyageur since it was launched. Your story and the confirmation by other a.netters are a very clear message to steer clear! I feel disappointed. The only premium economy seat I have tried is BA's in 2006, and I found it to be quite decent. Too bad AF could not deliver a competitive product.

Quoting MCO2BRS (Thread starter):continuing to Kruger Park for a 3 day safari, returning to Jo'burg and flying down to PLZ the next day, driving across SA to Mossel Bay where we'd spend the night, and then onwards to Cape Town for 3 days

Very nice man! R.S.A. is incredible, isn't it? I spent 9-10 days in South Africa in April with my best friend, and we saw Cape Town and Kruger (Hippo Hollow Lodge and Kambaku Lodge, the latter in the Timbavati reserve). It was awesome. We did not have enough time to do proper sightseeing in Cape Town because we were there for a wedding and the groom and bride had organized a lot of activities for the guests, but the things we saw, we really enjoyed.

Quoting MCO2BRS (Thread starter):If you'd like to check out any of my other photos from the trip, including pix from flights to/from CPT and PLZ the link is posted below.

Thanks! I liked them a lot. It reminded me that I need to sort mine.

Quoting lychemsa (Reply 1):Did you take any vaccinations?
That's what scares me about these countries. I caught Hepatitis after my 3 week stay in Brazil.

Which countries do you mean by "these"? There really is no need to get vaccinations if you visit South Africa unless you venture to the northernmost parts of Kruger. My friend and I took malaria medication starting three weeks before our arrival in Kruger just to be safe, and we learned once in Kruger that it would not have been necessary during the time of the year of our visit because of the absence of anopheles mosquitoes in the Timbavati. Jo'burg, Cape Town and other large cities in South Africa are pretty much as safe (in terms of health) as other large cities in developed countries.

Quoting LH4116 (Reply 6):a bit of a shame that AF didn't live up to your expectations. I've only had good experiences on them, and the service has always been good especially the meals. Overall AF have the best Y meals in the industry, but that may have changed now as they've introduced the á la carte menu.

I agree. It is very disappointing considering that AF had always had a reputation for the high level of its catering. Isn't the a a la carte menu only on short-haul btw?

Thanks for posting, interesting comments on the Y+ seat, we would tend to assume the extra legroom also means extra comfort too, seems you and others disagree, worth noting, though AF are not on my usual fly list, I'll be letting my ST Gold laps.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 13):What was the reason for the delay? That is 2 hours and 10 minutes!

The delay was due to fuel pumps being INOP. We spent about an 1hr 45 at the gate, the rest of the time was a very very slow taxi to the other side of CDG and deicing.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 13):We did not have enough time to do proper sightseeing in Cape Town because we were there for a wedding and the groom and bride had organized a lot of activities for the guests, but the things we saw, we really enjoyed.

I highly recommend if you go to Cape Town again, spend as much time there as possible. The 3/4 days we had there weren't enough. Highly recommend a wine tour as well, that was the highlight of our time in CT.

Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 14):Thanks for posting, interesting comments on the Y+ seat, we would tend to assume the extra legroom also means extra comfort too

Well if the AF website is anything to go by, then yes it should be extra comfort. We specifically chose Y+ because it was a happy medium between Y and J.

We do plan to return to S.A. in the future, we will probably be flying KL, SA or VS next time.

Quoting MCO2BRS (Reply 15):I highly recommend if you go to Cape Town again, spend as much time there as possible. The 3/4 days we had there weren't enough. Highly recommend a wine tour as well, that was the highlight of our time in CT.

Thanks man! Yes, I really want to go back. We saw the Castle of Good Hope, the V&A Waterfront, plenty of Camps Bay, Table Mountain, and went to a few restaurants, but we missed Robben Island and the wineries. Will have to plan a second visit in the not so distant future.