0ops ! There are more than the 3 threads mentioned above :Pre-war championship motor cycle racing by Sheldon as well as others , I suggest you go to "Search" and type "Motorcycle racing" !
That I did and found some!
Regards Bjørn

Yes, that was the chap, Henry. A great sponsor of many South Africans including Kork Ballington?Does anybody remember Smith or Watson? Watson put up some fantastic performances on Bultacos in 65 and 66 as well as a 500 Manx as I remember.

bigrog, is the sponsor Doug Aldridge the same person that was involved with Dickie Dale and Moto Guzzi back in the fifties?

bigrog, is the sponsor Doug Aldridge the same person that was involved with Dickie Dale and Moto Guzzi back in the fifties?

Yes, Doug Aldridge is the same man. He was very involved with Dickie when he raced in South Africa and was the man behind the Dickie Dale Memorial trophy meetings that were highly regarded in the sixties after Dickie was tragically killed.. Very much 'the one to win' then, the "Dickie Dale" was the premier meeting in SA then. In the fifties, he was involved with Dickie when he rode Guzzis and was one of the few men to have ridden the Guzzi V8, even if it only was for a short stint down to warm it up. What is your knowledge of Doug?

Your project on bygone sponsors and tuners is very interesting. They were the lifeblood of the sport of course, before big money from manufacturers came in, and deserve to be remembered. I'm sure there are lots of tales to be told! Other names that spring to mind are tuners Phil Kettle, Bill Stuart and Irishman Joe Ryan (he of the famous "Fireplace Nortons") and sponsors Charlie (?) Oakley (of Dave Croxford, Geoff Barry, etc), Brian Coleshill (of Tony Godfrey, Alan Barnett, etc). Interesting to see the name T. Morgan in your list. Is that Tony Morgan (ie. Daphne and Tony Morgan) early sponsors of my all-time hero Malcolm Uphill? Also, I have a friend who knows Ray Cowles personally and may help fill some gaps there.

I am also fascinated by the bygone sponsors and tuners. Does anyone know who coined the phrase "add lightness". We had an off forum discussion on this recently (yes, we even discuss bikes away from the forum) and couldn't decide whether it was Geoff Monty or Francis Beart. Anyone able to settle this debate?

Originally posted by Bjørn Kjer 0ops ! There are more than the 3 threads mentioned above :Pre-war championship motor cycle racing by Sheldon as well as others , I suggest you go to "Search" and type "Motorcycle racing" !That I did and found some!Regards Bjørn

Bjorn, I'm happy that there is this thread running but it would be nice to have more contributors. It is a more defined era and therefore very worthwhile as an addition to the forum. I see Paul's point that there are no defined era limits in the 'motorcycle racing nostalgia' thread but they are both of great interest to enthusiasts so let's keep it going.

Bjorn, I'm happy that there is this thread running but it would be nice to have more contributors. It is a more defined era and therefore very worthwhile as an addition to the forum. I see Paul's point that there are no defined era limits in the 'motorcycle racing nostalgia' thread but they are both of great interest to enthusiasts so let's keep it going.

I do not see any problem with having two or three different threads, we are all enthusiasts and so we will have no difficulty in finding a particular era we wish to contribute to. We just need more contributors to the smaller threads.

I am also fascinated by the bygone sponsors and tuners. Does anyone know who coined the phrase "add lightness". We had an off forum discussion on this recently (yes, we even discuss bikes away from the forum) and couldn't decide whether it was Geoff Monty or Francis Beart. Anyone able to settle this debate?

I am really glad that some tuners from the golden age are getting the recognition they deserve.
The greatest tuning team in my opinion was run by Joe Potts, who operated a highly succesful team from a place called Bellshill, just outside Glasgow. The most famous riders that Joe Potts sponsored were Bob McIntyre, Alistair King and Jimmy Buchan (double Manx GP winner). Bob McIntyre thought incredibly highly of Joe Potts and refused works rides from Moto Guzzi, Gilera and MV Augusta, so that he could ride for Potts in 1956.
There was a real team setup run by Joe Potts and they had the most fantastic engineering equipment. There can be no tuners that produced more of a variety of 'specials' than Joe Potts. If I can list but a few:
1) 250cc Manx Norton
2)Desmodromic Manx Norton (before Doug Hele's)
3) The ligtest ever 500c Manx Norton (at the time - 1958), at 270lb.
4)90mm bore Manx Norton
5)Oval flywheeled Manx's with ultra short conrods and two piece cranks
6)Conversion of an AJS Porcupine into a 350cc.
7)The McIntyre Matchless and numerous other special frames for Nortons/7r's
8)Other mods included twin-spark, homemade high lift cams, Titanium rockers (on AJS 7r's)

Also the most suprising thing that was Developed at Joe Potts', was the Ducati single cylinder roadbike. Ducati sent engines and special adjustable camshafts up to Glasgow, so that the final tuning of the SOHC roadbikes could be done using Potts' dyno. The porting, cam timing and exhaust pipe length were all done not in Italy but in a funeral parlour outside Glasgow! That is seriously high praise for Ducati to outlay work like that.
Stan Hailwood (Mike's dad) was also desperate to get Pim Fleming (the engine man for Joe Potts) to build Mike's Norton engines, he offered to give him a Norton dealership in England. Thankfully he refused and continued to work for Bob Mac and Alistair King.
I am sorry that this thread is a bit long winded, but the it is a great place to give credit to the great men who worked at Bellshill.

Great post Ben. Joe Potts and his team certainly made an impact during this classic era. I recall coming across the Potts desmo Manx conversion before and have found the link again. You and other members may be interested in seeing the Potts desmo conversion. It can be seen at http://members.chell.../text/news.html

Cheers Senor. Actually It was me and my Dad who were fortunate to be able to relocate the Potts Desmo recently. The Desmo is an amazing thing. The quality of the material and the maching is just fantastic (far superior to standard Manx stuff). The Potts team were working on it during 1957, as they had more free time (as Bob McIntyre was riding for Gilera). It was a guy called Charlie Bruce's 'baby', who was the mathmatician at Joe Potts's. Charlie was the bloke who mapped out all the special cams they made at Potts's. He was given the nickname Professor Chambers (after the Chambers log tables he used) by Bob Mac.
The Potts Desmo was built to go into the special 'Razorblade' frame you can see on that link. That frame was first used by Bob Mac at the start of the 1958 season, but with a standard Manx engine as the Desmo was still being worked on. The press called the new bike the 270lb Manx, as it was the lightest 500c Manx at the time. The problem was that Bob Mac found the bike to have terrible handling, as it was the most dangerous bike he had ever ridden. He had an enourmous slide in the 58 Silverstone saturday meeting, where he got his elbow on the ground, but amazingly he stayed on. Bob named the bike the Camel and refused to ride it again. The sad thing is that it put an end to the Potts Desmo, as their Desmo only went in this frame and didn't fit a standard featherbed.
This meant Potts abandoned the Demo and it left part finished until now. They had got quite along way with the project, as the Cambox has had bearings fitted. They had made 3 sets of rockers, as they intended to make 250, 350 and 500cc Desmo's. Sadly the rockers have gone missing somewhere along the line, so all we have got is the cambox.
Given time, me and my dad would like to try and finish the Potts Desmo and get it running. I think we are really fortunate to be able to work on something, that has been left untouched since 1958, when it was being designed for Bob McIntyre.
Ben

The team who worked at Joe Potts's were outstanding. Joe ran an undertakers just outside Glasgow. The motorcycle racing team was based in the back of the funeral parlour (which still remains today). Joe had an amazing team of people there. His two full time proffesional riders were Bob McIntyre and Alistair King. Other riders who worked at or used Potts bikes were Charlie Bruce (3 times Scottish 250cc champion), Jimmy Buchan (double Manx GP winner on Potts Nortons), George Brown (sprint hero with Nero and super Nero) ans Vic Willoughby.
The thing that made the Potts setup so good was that they had a fantastic engineering setup. The only dyno in Scotland was in their workshop, which they could only use on certain days of the week (it was extremly noisy and made the ground shake when they were running their engines). Joe Potts employed a permanent draughtsman to do all the drawings of the special two-piece cranks, conrods etc. The specialist engine man who worked for Potts was called Pim Fleming and the brains behind the operation was Charlie Bruce. Charlie Bruce was an ex prisoner of war who was terribly treated on the 'death railway'. He was really keen on making British win. In fact as a thankyou present for all his work, Bob Mac found an ex works NSU Rennmax engine for Charlie and offered to make a really special bike out of it. Amazingly Charlie refused the NSU engine and said he would rather stick with his Velocette MOV!
Other specialists who worked at Potts's was Alec Crummie - the wizard at welding, who made all the special frames, including the McIntyre Matchless, the Razorblade frame, mini featherbed for the 250cc Manx, lightweight copies of featherbed frames, especially stiff frame in 1960 made to house a Manx or 7r. The team also had the services of a local policeman who came in on his time off to do all the fibreglass work for the team. The police were always helpful to the team and used to closer the Glencoe road, so that Bob Mac could test the carburation on his bikes.
On a Potts bike, very little was standard Norton parts. They used Norton crankcases (highly modified by them) and unmachined cylinder heads, pistons etc. They made there own conrods, high lift cams, cranks, got special gearbox components. One of the funniest things they decided to make was a special clutch drum with 43 (instead of the standard 42 teeth on). The reason they did it, was so they could trick other competitors about the gearing they were using.
It goes without saying that the Potts team didn't just make interesting bikes, they were exceptionally fast. In the 1961 NW200, Bob Mac's 500cc Manx was clocked at an unbeleviable 155mph! In 1962 the JP7 Manx engine was credited by the Motorcycling magazine as being the fastest single cylinder engine around. The results obtained by the team was amazing, from wins and numerous leaderboard placing in the TT, wins at the NW 200, Manx GP, British Championships, 3rd place at the Italian GP......the list goes on and on
I personally believe that alot more credit should be given for all the achievements at Joe Pott's. They did not shout friom the roof tops (Bob Mac hated the press), but just got on and did there job. Without question motorcycle racing between 1953 and 62 would have been a much poorer place without them.
Ben

This is a very interesting, Ben. I recall that Potts also did a racing car with a Manx engine. Do you have knowledge of this one. And, why did they stop? Was it due to the Oulton Park accident that claimed the unfortunate Bob Mac?

Senor you are right about Potts doing a racing car. In the early 50's Joe made about 20 JP cars. Some really good drivers drove them like Le Mans winners Ron Flockhart, Ninian Sanderson and George Brown. The JP cars tended to use either Vincent engines (either a V twin or a greyflash single) or JAP singles. Some good information can be found on:

Then search under Marques and then JP. Sadly you don't see that many JP cars around, but I have seen a couple recently.

Quite a bit of other car work was done by Joe Potts. The machining of the Ecurie Ecosse Jaguar cylinder heads was done at Bellshill and he also made a rapid MG that Jimmy Rae of motorcycling fame drove.

The team finished after Bob Mac's death in Aug 62. Bob was a like a son to Joe, and Joe just didn't want to carry on. After Bob's death the team finished immediatly and the workshop became a bit like a time warp. Some of the bikes were sold off in late 62/early 63, and also Bob's two Gilera 4ls brakes that went to Francis Beart (see Joe Dunphy bikes). People told me how they went to Bellshill yaers later and there were still Manx engines on the bench and in the dyno with cobwebs on them.Ben

I'm sorry to see that the posts seem to have dried up here! Although I sat on the fence when the validity of a second nostalgia thread was being discussed, I do believe there are two distinctly separate eras. In my opinion, the demarcation between the two is the "across the board" domination by Yamahas, and that the changeover was most acute in 1970. So for my money, pre-70 would be the way to go if this second thread were to continue. Although I post frequently on the more established "motorcycle racing nostalgia" thread, where the topics are mostly seventies and eighties, like many others I also have great interest in the sixties. So maybe there is mileage in this "sister" thread - anyone care to breath some life back into it?

I'm sorry to see that the posts seem to have dried up here! Although I sat on the fence when the validity of a second nostalgia thread was being discussed, I do believe there are two distinctly separate eras. In my opinion, the demarcation between the two is the "across the board" domination by Yamahas, and that the changeover was most acute in 1970. So for my money, pre-70 would be the way to go if this second thread were to continue. Although I post frequently on the more established "motorcycle racing nostalgia" thread, where the topics are mostly seventies and eighties, like many others I also have great interest in the sixties. So maybe there is mileage in this "sister" thread - anyone care to breath some life back into it?

Merry Christmas to you all !

I would also like to see this thread continue but we need to find more contributors. As somebody who was too young to race myself, I don't have too many photos but my New Years resolution is to get into the loft to get whatever I have got down and post a few nostalgia builders. I have a few questions to ask as well. I love both threads and although my own era was the 70's, I do like the 50's and 60's stuff as well. Anybody got any knowledge, questions or pics they'd like to share?

The trouble is Bjorn we are all getting older and I have a million memories of the early 60,s when I travelled Europe each summer hols watching m/c racing in some odd places. For instance I went to the St Ursanne Les Rangier hillclimb in Switzeland in 1965 and last week in the village here I met a Swiss guy who now lives here and told me he drove a Borgward Isabella in the very hillclimb I watched. ! How weird is that

My hero was Roland Foll before he tragically got killed at Assen ,we had a long talk I remember in the IOM .Only last month I got a email from a guy in Germany who told me Roland was German not Swiss so your thread is working well even if the posts are few and far between. I emailed one of the correspondents to ask if Georg Auerbacher is still with us but no reply as yet

I fell into this site, trying to revive a fading memory of Manx lore. Who was that Manchester (?) tuner who once had a very quick Manx 350? He also built a Vincent speed record contender. The press at the time (late 1950s) reported he had a Norton 350 engine that would peak at 10,000 rpm. True? It kept winning, then as reported, a rider dropped it & cracked a crankcase. With new crankcase halves, sadly it was back to 8,000 max rev limits. True or false?
The Manx was a dream. Most of us at that time could only afford secondhand mobile 'sludge-pumps'.
Loved the Joe Potts memories, but why are those stories all tinged with 'what might have been'?
All we young speed fiends were downed by McKintyre's death, especially after Duke went Italian. No need for excuses, mate. Just count the cash.
My earliest 'racing' memory comes from a young pal whose father had a car. He told me about a GP race he went to & watched the BRM conk out on the start line (red-faced Raymond Mays at wheel).
The flavour & feel of the 50s-60s times comes thru the posts. What great guys there were then.
When we youngsters could scrape together the conkers, we went to Brands or Thruxton. Thru my feet I can still feel the drum of the Manx at low revs before it ran up the rev scale in the paddocks. Enough, but then there was racing! Great. It was sarnies, not bought food if we wanted enough petrol to get home.
Also loved the occasional Goodwood meet to smell hot castor oil from pre-war ERAs, Alfas, etc.
Remember a Brands meet. A Jowett Jupiter showed most new MGAs the way home. In the Cooper 500s race, a driver named Street (?) decided he wanted to play rough ('bumper cars').
Later I went to Australia. All the 'apes' went to the mountain circuit meet near Sydney. Beer good, but bloody cold at night sleeping in a shed behind the pub. Nothing could touch Kel carruthers as he romped home on an early 250 Honda 4.
Every week, there was the Speedway (Melbourne or Sydney). That was special. Opening races were JAP solos. Guy named Plumb used to all but climb the safety fence. Remember from the program, 40s rider Norman Parker still held the Sydney track lap record (this was 1960s). Next, the sidecars - Vincent jobs - lovely, lovely sounds. Imagine two or three outfits, sideways on, front wheels pawing the air, fighting for the lead into the corner, dirt flying eveywhere. Orgasmic!
There followed cars, various categories, the light racers with JAP V-twin motors. Air-cooled, the winner was usually the one who wasn't overheated after 4 laps. Top category was the 'full speedcars' with USA Offenhauser engines. Again, what lovely music, & lordie, how they shifted!
Back in UK, watched a rider named Hole win an Aldershot Xmas MX event with a Manx 500 in a modified frame. The track was ice-solid. I don't know how the riders even stayed upright, never mind the power of the Manx.
Never quite adjusted to screaming Yamahas. Seen one, heard 'em all. When you've had the best, you can't settle for the rest, but you can die happy. Oldgit.

Derek Minter. I know he had an unexplained crash a few years ago at Darley Moor (I think) and there were thoughts at the time he may have had a heart attack or stroke. I also understand he stopped riding in demo/parade laps and so on after that incident. I see in 'Classic Racer' magazine that he is now attending classic bike meetings. Is he riding again or is that all in the past?

(honestly I don't "recognize" him as such.... it's the "Southern" instead of "South" bit that got me guessing ! )

Yes correct Gary Hocking at the Roy Hesketh circuit Pietermaritzburg SAI think the year is circa 1958 I beleive rider 26 is Graham Cain on a long stoke manx.This circuit was a major factor in SA and the then Rhodesia producing so many great riders through the years.cheerspeter

yes correct it is Martin at Cadwell 1966Martin was sponsored by father Doud Aldridge and the bike is a 500 Manx with a Kirby fairing so not a Kirby bike.I am surprised the answer came so quick! Martin was a very neat, quick and stylish rider who went back to SA at the end of 1966 season I feel he could have achieved more if he had stayed for another season that's life. Martin has remaned friends with the our family as he still lives and works in Pietermaritzburg.cheersPeter

Martin Watson seemed to be in all the results in '66 and there were a lot of pictures around of him at the time, both on the Norton and Bultacos. If it wasn't for the fact that this guy looks a lot smaller than Martin, I would have said they were both of him!

Martin Watson seemed to be in all the results in '66 and there were a lot of pictures around of him at the time, both on the Norton and Bultacos. If it wasn't for the fact that this guy looks a lot smaller than Martin, I would have said they were both of him!

Is it Charles Mortimer?

It is not Charles Mortimer,He is a lot smaller than Martin Watson,This pic was taken in 1969 if this helps at all,cheerspeter

Originally posted by T54 Not too many 1968 water-cooled TSS 250's were built, so this should be an easy one... How about Gyula Marsovsky?

You're right, T54, there weren't many of the model 41 TSS 250's made and Marsovsky is a good guess (or Morriscoffski as my father used to call him) but not right I'm afraid. Most water cooled TSS's were the model 24 which had the silver tank and seat as opposed to the red tank and seat in pmbboy's pic.

He will hate me giving clues but I think this is really hard. This guy is not a GP rider but a British short circuit rider of the 60's. He's a Londoner who had a bit of success at club/national level. Also rode in the US in the 70's.

You're right, T54, there weren't many of the model 41 TSS 250's made and Marsovsky is a good guess (or Morriscoffski as my father used to call him) but not right I'm afraid. Most water cooled TSS's were the model 24 which had the silver tank and seat as opposed to the red tank and seat in pmbboy's pic.

He will hate me giving clues but I think this is really hard. This guy is not a GP rider but a British short circuit rider of the 60's. He's a Londoner who had a bit of success at club/national level. Also rode in the US in the 70's.

I will add another clue, which might give it away,He was double British clubmans champion in 1967 To add to bigrog's comments,this was also a special factory spec 250 the same as supplied to Barry Sheene.cheersPeter

I will add another clue, which might give it away,He was double British clubmans champion in 1967 To add to bigrog's comments,this was also a special factory spec 250 the same as supplied to Barry Sheene.cheersPeter

Just as a matter of interest, does anybody on this forum know anything about the alleged twin cylinder Bultaco TSS. I can remember Barry Sheene telling my brothers and I in about 1970 that he'd actually seen it. Anybody know anything about it or have a picture of this mythical beast?