Sorry to be a party pooper with all this Curbishley "love-in" , but we have not really pushed on from title winning form at the end of last season ( which begs the question "did Curbishley keep us up or was it Tevez?"), and we have finished points-wise nearer to relegation than a UEFA Cup spot ! Anyone would think that we've never achieved such a "high" finish before with all this talk about being happy with 10th! Have people forgotten that we finished 9th two years ago, AND got to the Cup Final ! This season we have suffered some of the worst ,dull , boring,negative football ever to be played by a West Ham team.Compared to our recent managers ,Curbishley has spent a lot of money on ( injury prone) players and doesn't really seem to have it in him to take us any further than mid-table. Yes , he has done a job , of sorts , but if we really want to be looking to finish higher up the table and attract better players to the club , then I'm sorry but he has got to go.He is a decent man but I think he has reached his limits! I've had enough of being Charlton ...............................lets get back to being West Ham !

saludo de carlitos wrote:Curbs left to his own devices buying players = disaster. curbs on shoe string budget = probably ok. point being this is the first time in his career he has had wonga and he has come up short as i thought he would. too many old pals at club now curbs.

Who would you have spent the money on last summer then? We weren't exactly an attractive proposition - just managed to avoid relegation (so no clue if we could do any better in the next season), best player (Tevez) had left, legal fight with Sheff U hanging over us. Realistically, any players better than the ones we signed had other, more attractive, offers. Curbs did the best he could in the circumstances.

i think your last post Hammer Sandwich perfectly sums up my feelings too! i am happy Curbs kept us up and yes compared to last season i grudgingly accept a mid table position. However, and this is where i have a problem, i can't see us improving. If we are relient on players all being fit at the same time - tbh this is highly unlikely with the characters we are talking about.

I don't see Curbs as the sort of manager that would attract a top world star to come to an "a club pushing for Europe" he just seems too "pipe & slippers" to me. Too content with playing it safe and resting on his laurels.

I honestly would love to see him stay involved with the club, but fear if we are to push on and break into the top six (especially as next year is going to be much tougher, with more teams pushing for europe) we need a more charismatic astute manager. Someone who will attract top transfer targets. Someone to inspire confidence and get us back on the road to success.

Yes we have no god given right to success and yes i know we never have been consistently successful, but does that mean we should settle for mediocrity? I for one believe, as a club, with our passionate fanbase we are capable of so very much more.

Some people recently are worse than Newcastle fans but it's the "West Ham Way" I guess. LBM will be hounded out, FFJ was hounded out and Curbs will be hounded out. I love this whole idea that Curbs isn't the man to take us onto the next level. Why exactly is that? Mentions of negative tactics etc don't take into account the fact that the only fit players we've had some games are defenders/defensive.

Ok he signed players that were injury prone but the aim at the start of the season from everyone was midtable and steady season and he's done it without those players he signed.If they had all been fit and we finished 10th while playing some better football then everyone would be happy. This season has been about grinding out results.

He's had 2 jobs to do - Keep us up - DONE - Steady the ship - DONE

He deserves to have a crack at the next level but I'm afraid to say that Newcastle syndrome has set in at this club where we believe we are something we are not. We haven't played good football since old saggy face and we don't have any divine right to expect europe but we demand good football and some demand europe. We all need a reality check.

We need an allrounder who can wheel and deal and be able to attract class players as well as young players with bright futures, a manager who can sell players we no longer need but make it an attractive deal to the buying club, a man who can talk the talk with the owners, players, media and fans but above all someone who will get us playing the football that will want fans coming to a match, who will have us moving up the table, will have us beating teams around and below us convincinly as well as not collapsing when we play the top four especially when they go a man down.Is this the perfect manager? YesIs this Curbs? No and he's too far from this for us to be successful.Thanks Alan but as it's already been said I don't want us being the new Charlton and whilst we'd never get the perfect manager I feel we could do alot better.

FurryDice Upton Boy wrote:I don't see Curbs as the sort of manager that would attract a top world star to come to an "a club pushing for Europe" he just seems too "pipe & slippers" to me. Too content with playing it safe and resting on his laurels..

The last time we qualified for Europe via the 'front door' was 1999. Since then we have finished 9th,15th, 7th, 18th, 9th, 15th, and 10th, with 2 seasons in the fizz. Hardly 'pushing for Europe' is it?

FurryDice Upton Boy wrote:I honestly would love to see him stay involved with the club, but fear if we are to push on and break into the top six (especially as next year is going to be much tougher, with more teams pushing for europe) we need a more charismatic astute manager. Someone who will attract top transfer targets. Someone to inspire confidence and get us back on the road to success.

Alan Pardew?

FurryDice Upton Boy wrote:Yes we have no god given right to success and yes i know we never have been consistently successful, but does that mean we should settle for mediocrity? I for one believe, as a club, with our passionate fanbase we are capable of so very much more.

Have you been to the Boleyn recently? This season, it's been like a morgue apart from the 'big' games (probably due Boringley's tactics ) However, the away support has been superb as usual.

P.S. To all those who booed when Jeremy called out AC's name during the lap of honour:

i am a season ticket holder mate and have never booed a player nor a manager. So you don't seem to think we should be looking to finish higher and push for europe then? I and many others think we should and yes we are passionate - the atmos at the Boleyn this year hasn't been the best but lets face it sport is a form of entertainment and we haven't exactly been excitement central have we?

Lets face it - we are all entitled to our opinions and i have no more right to tell you that your thoughts and view is one of a **** then you do to mine. It is all subjective mate. Regardless of what we think Curbs is still likely to be in charge at least until Xmas and to a degree i can understand it, he is a safe pair of hands. But if anything i just think it proves that our new icelandic owners sold us a pup with a talk of a bright future.

FurryDice Upton Boy wrote:i am a season ticket holder mate and have never booed a player nor a manager. So you don't seem to think we should be looking to finish higher and push for europe then? I and many others think we should and yes we are passionate - the atmos at the Boleyn this year hasn't been the best but lets face it sport is a form of entertainment and we haven't exactly been excitement central have we?

Lets face it - we are all entitled to our opinions and i have no more right to tell you that your thoughts and view is one of a c*** then you do to mine. It is all subjective mate. Regardless of what we think Curbs is still likely to be in charge at least until Xmas and to a degree i can understand it, he is a safe pair of hands. But if anything i just think it proves that our new icelandic owners sold us a pup with a talk of a bright future.

How do you justify that. What did you want after last season? Look at the league, a fully fit West Ham team isn't as good as Everton, Villa, Portsmouth, Blackburn, Tottenham and maybe Man City. Fact is we have finished where we deserve to be with a full squad. He is a highly regarded manager amongst managers and I think he deserves a chance to have a fair crack at it.

FurryDice Upton Boy wrote:i am a season ticket holder mate and have never booed a player nor a manager. So you don't seem to think we should be looking to finish higher and push for europe then? I and many others think we should and yes we are passionate - the atmos at the Boleyn this year hasn't been the best but lets face it sport is a form of entertainment and we haven't exactly been excitement central have we?

Lets face it - we are all entitled to our opinions and i have no more right to tell you that your thoughts and view is one of a c*** then you do to mine. It is all subjective mate. Regardless of what we think Curbs is still likely to be in charge at least until Xmas and to a degree i can understand it, he is a safe pair of hands. But if anything i just think it proves that our new icelandic owners sold us a pup with a talk of a bright future.

The booing accusation was aimed at anyone who booed at the game yesterday, not a personal dig.

I would love it, LOVE IT, if we were back in Europe, but not at the cost of changing our manager every five minutes. Some of my best memories are from the Euro campaigns of 1976 and 1981.

The key to long-term stability and success starts with finding a good manager and sticking with him. The most successful managers in the Prem's short history are Fergie and Wenger. Look what happened to Bolton when Fat Sam left. In my lifetime, the most successful and trophy-laden times were under Greenwood, Lyall, and Redknapp, all time-served West Ham men.

The competiton for Uefa places next year will be even harder, with Spurs and Newcastle added to the mix of second-tier premiership teams (Everton, Villa, Blackburn, Man City, Pompey, Us, and possibly Sunderland and Boro). We will do well to finish in the top half again IMO, and I would be happy with that.

In terms of revenues West Ham are a top 10 side.In terms of historical averages and the clubs in the Prem 08/09 West Ham are a mid-table side 13th-7th.West Ham are based in London not some god foresaken outpost.West Ham have a strong history, behind the likes of Man U and Liverpool by a lomng way but none the less a strong brand of entertainment, style, and 60's golden age (Beatles, Best, Bobby) a stronger history and brand than the likes of Boro, Sunderland, Blackburn and Portsmouth.

In 2008/09 West Ham will not finish in the top 4.West Ham are unlikley to catch Everton (who dont spend big)In 2008/09 West Ham should be nowehere near the relegation spots.

Tottingham Villa and Newcastle will all be targeting Everton's 5th spot, at least two of them wont make it, at least one may finish far behind it.Man City will be targeting extending their growth, and appear ready to spend.It is going to be hard to catch the majority of those sides therefore very hard to get to 6th or 7th, and possibly 6th or 7th is an unreasonable target.

Clearly finishing lower than mid-table would be bad.

In order to improve on 10th Blackburn and Portsmouth need to be targeted.I think Curbishley should be sacked tomorrow, my experiemce based hunch is he is not good enough, but I am not suggesting he has to get us to the giddy heights of 7th either.

A legitimate, achievable target is 8th or to be on close to 57/58 points In 2006/07 West Ham gained 41 points, Blackburn 52 and Portsmouth 54In 2007/08 West Ham gained 49 points, Blackburn 58 and Portsmouth 57

West Ham will need to be aiming for 56 points at least from the coming season, this objectivley to get ahead of Blackburn and Porsmouth in 2008/09 and to take into account the expected improvements of Newcastle and Spurs.

That minimum target of 56 points is modestly achievable if the theory about the impact of a fit Dyer etc (Curbs signings) is valid.

West Ham need to be on schedule on 28 points from the first 19 games.at least 14 points from the first 10 games.

4 wins out of the first 10 games (and a few draws) should see the club on schedule. .

Anything less and continuing with the Curbs experiment till Xmas, would scupper the clubs January window for the next manager.

Make no mistake Curbs is an experiment. Based on his worthy record at Charlton, we are seeing if he is capable of taking a bigger clun than Charlton higher than that level (soemthing he has never done before).

A side with UEFA ambitions must win 4 games in every 10. Better than that

West Hams current form of 16 games played for 4 wins needs to be overthrown.(16 games included Wigan, Brum, Fulham, Sunderland, Bolton, Derby)

Portsmouth (on FA Cup brains) won 4 of the last 10 Prem gamesBlackburn 4 of the last 11

The consensus (including many pro-Curbs voices) on here is that Curbs goes into 2008/09 as manager, and that at some time before the end of the season he needs to have shown improvements on this injury-ravaged season.

I say Xmas is too far off, if we are not functioning after the first quarter, Curbs needs to be on notice that he only has a few games to turn it around.

This thread has never been about can he get us mid-table, its always been about can he takes us higher than our natural position, Is Curbishley the edge for West Ham.

Coming in to his third season here at a club he knows well, in a league he knows well, with Parker and Bowyer his lieutenants he needs to prove if he is the man for the job or not.

So far in finishing mid-table he has neither proved or disproved that.

We will have our answer swiftly next season.

I feel this thread is now about how much time would you give Curbishley to show he can increase West Hams points tally above mid-table and what reasonable criteria would you judge him on.

Lets not be shifting the goal posts in November (oh he's been unlucky etc).This clubs needs a managar who can get it fighting for a UEFA cup spot.Villas highest paid player is on £40k and they featured 2 West Ham rejects vs West Ham.Villa were challenging for UEFA untill the last day of the season.

Is Curbishley as good as O'Neil?Can he get the better of Redknapp, and Hughes?

The challenge is not to overcome a mysterious Sven or Scholari bankrolled by overseas billionaires, just British based managers who have some experience of the Prem and modest budgets.Villa won 4 from their last 12 games,

If after 10 games of next season West Ham have won less than 4 games, Curbishleys next few games will need to be picked over with a fine toothed comb. Thats onjective.

Curbishley said yetserday that this squad will do better next season.

Subjectivley, personally I cant see it.At least one from Newcastle and Spurs will improve so even if Portsmouth or Blackburn collapse I dont see why West Ham will go higher by staying still.

We need to see progress, and we need to see it well before the Jan transfer window if the club is to keep pace with Newcastle, Spurs, Villa, and Citeh.

If we wait too long we will find that nt only is 5th out of reach but Europe is too.

I would like to know from Curbishleys supporters a) what is the minimum in your opinion he needs to achieve next season in terms of pointsb) if we are clearly behind that schedule (i.e. more than 0.5 points per game behind) will you give him the whole season to recover or will you feel he cant take West Ham higher than where we are today. What time frame from today should Curbishley have to start delivering European challenging top 8 form?

Setting a points target isn't worth anything. He needs to get enough points to finish 7-8-9-10th a great season would be 5th or 6th but I can't see it really. I also think he should be given a few seasons at least, let him get the team he wants. The important thing for everyone is to get a little bit of flair into the team, at the end of the day we go to watch our team play, it doesn't matter if we win anything or not it's how we play at the end of the day. I'd be happy playing entertaining football and finishing 7th-10th with the odd season pushing for Europe. Aspirations of champs league just aren't realistic in modern football.

FDiMcA wrote:In terms of revenues West Ham are a top 10 side.In terms of historical averages and the clubs in the Prem 08/09 West Ham are a mid-table side 13th-7th.West Ham are based in London not some god foresaken outpost.West Ham have a strong history, behind the likes of Man U and Liverpool by a lomng way but none the less a strong brand of entertainment, style, and 60's golden age (Beatles, Best, Bobby) a stronger history and brand than the likes of Boro, Sunderland, Blackburn and Portsmouth.

In 2008/09 West Ham will not finish in the top 4.West Ham are unlikley to catch Everton (who dont spend big)In 2008/09 West Ham should be nowehere near the relegation spots.

Tottingham Villa and Newcastle will all be targeting Everton's 5th spot, at least two of them wont make it, at least one may finish far behind it.Man City will be targeting extending their growth, and appear ready to spend.It is going to be hard to catch the majority of those sides therefore very hard to get to 6th or 7th, and possibly 6th or 7th is an unreasonable target.

Clearly finishing lower than mid-table would be bad.

In order to improve on 10th Blackburn and Portsmouth need to be targeted.I think Curbishley should be sacked tomorrow, my experiemce based hunch is he is not good enough, but I am not suggesting he has to get us to the giddy heights of 7th either.

A legitimate, achievable target is 8th or to be on close to 57/58 points In 2006/07 West Ham gained 41 points, Blackburn 52 and Portsmouth 54In 2007/08 West Ham gained 49 points, Blackburn 58 and Portsmouth 57

West Ham will need to be aiming for 56 points at least from the coming season, this objectivley to get ahead of Blackburn and Porsmouth in 2008/09 and to take into account the expected improvements of Newcastle and Sp*rs.

That minimum target of 56 points is modestly achievable if the theory about the impact of a fit Dyer etc (Curbs signings) is valid.

West Ham need to be on schedule on 28 points from the first 19 games.at least 14 points from the first 10 games.

4 wins out of the first 10 games (and a few draws) should see the club on schedule. .

Anything less and continuing with the Curbs experiment till Xmas, would scupper the clubs January window for the next manager.

Make no mistake Curbs is an experiment. Based on his worthy record at Charlton, we are seeing if he is capable of taking a bigger clun than Charlton higher than that level (soemthing he has never done before).

A side with UEFA ambitions must win 4 games in every 10. Better than that

West Hams current form of 16 games played for 4 wins needs to be overthrown.(16 games included Wigan, Brum, Fulham, Sunderland, Bolton, Derby)

Portsmouth (on FA Cup brains) won 4 of the last 10 Prem gamesBlackburn 4 of the last 11

The consensus (including many pro-Curbs voices) on here is that Curbs goes into 2008/09 as manager, and that at some time before the end of the season he needs to have shown improvements on this injury-ravaged season.

I say Xmas is too far off, if we are not functioning after the first quarter, Curbs needs to be on notice that he only has a few games to turn it around.

This thread has never been about can he get us mid-table, its always been about can he takes us higher than our natural position, Is Curbishley the edge for West Ham.

Coming in to his third season here at a club he knows well, in a league he knows well, with Parker and Bowyer his lieutenants he needs to prove if he is the man for the job or not.

So far in finishing mid-table he has neither proved or disproved that.

We will have our answer swiftly next season.

I feel this thread is now about how much time would you give Curbishley to show he can increase West Hams points tally above mid-table and what reasonable criteria would you judge him on.

Lets not be shifting the goal posts in November (oh he's been unlucky etc).This clubs needs a managar who can get it fighting for a UEFA cup spot.Villas highest paid player is on £40k and they featured 2 West Ham rejects vs West Ham.Villa were challenging for UEFA untill the last day of the season.

Is Curbishley as good as O'Neil?Can he get the better of Redknapp, and Hughes?

The challenge is not to overcome a mysterious Sven or Scholari bankrolled by overseas billionaires, just British based managers who have some experience of the Prem and modest budgets.Villa won 4 from their last 12 games,

If after 10 games of next season West Ham have won less than 4 games, Curbishleys next few games will need to be picked over with a fine toothed comb. Thats onjective.

Curbishley said yetserday that this squad will do better next season.

Subjectivley, personally I cant see it.At least one from Newcastle and Sp*rs will improve so even if Portsmouth or Blackburn collapse I dont see why West Ham will go higher by staying still.

We need to see progress, and we need to see it well before the Jan transfer window if the club is to keep pace with Newcastle, Sp*rs, Villa, and Citeh.

If we wait too long we will find that nt only is 5th out of reach but Europe is too.

I would like to know from Curbishleys supporters a) what is the minimum in your opinion he needs to achieve next season in terms of pointsb) if we are clearly behind that schedule (i.e. more than 0.5 points per game behind) will you give him the whole season to recover or will you feel he cant take West Ham higher than where we are today. What time frame from today should Curbishley have to start delivering European challenging top 8 form?

I haven't read all your post, but I think it can be summarised in 6 words. - 'We need to find more consistency'

This is something no West Ham side has ever done in my lifetime and I have been supporting the club for over 40 years! It is no use going 5 or 6 games unbeaten and then win only one of the next 8. West Ham will always struggle until we can stop shipping goals. It is really as simple as yet. Put your hands up everybody who thought having taken the lead yesterday, that you knew we would need at least 2 more to be sure of winning the game. . Do you think a Curbishley team can score the opening goal and be sure of going on to win a game?. Any game?Right, there is your answer? Still want him?

Puff Daddy wrote:I haven't read all your post, but I think it can be summarised in 6 words. - 'We need to find more consistency'

This is something no West Ham side has ever done in my lifetime

In your lifetime, the current Prem is more concistant than any English league you have ever watched.You know which 6 clubs will make the relegation battle, which 4 clubs will finish in the top 4.You can name the 10 other teams and put Everton and O'Neils Villa in the top 4 of those 10.

West Ham can only realistically (barring gross mismanagement or genius management) finish in one of 5 spots. i.e. 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th or 12th.

7th and 13th being unlikley. The challenge having finished 10th is to finish in 8th or 9th.The point of my post is that never before hasd it been so easy to assess realistic achievable targets and ceilings for a season.

I the leap to the conclusion that we will know swiftly if we are behind that achievable target schedule.

Its nonsesne to think of inconcistency in the 80's havig a baring on next season.Next season is our most predicatble ever.

Rather than achieve concistancy we need to achieve a small gross improvement in total points banked over the season. It can happen in a brief run of wins or evenly and concistantly.

Hammer Sandwich wrote:Sorry to be a party pooper with all this Curbishley "love-in" , but we have not really pushed on from title winning form at the end of last season ( which begs the question "did Curbishley keep us up or was it Tevez?"), and we have finished points-wise nearer to relegation than a UEFA Cup spot ! Anyone would think that we've never achieved such a "high" finish before with all this talk about being happy with 10th! Have people forgotten that we finished 9th two years ago, AND got to the Cup Final ! This season we have suffered some of the worst ,dull , boring,negative football ever to be played by a West Ham team.Compared to our recent managers ,Curbishley has spent a lot of money on ( injury prone) players and doesn't really seem to have it in him to take us any further than mid-table. Yes , he has done a job , of sorts , but if we really want to be looking to finish higher up the table and attract better players to the club , then I'm sorry but he has got to go.He is a decent man but I think he has reached his limits! I've had enough of being Charlton ...............................lets get back to being West Ham !

Yeah and Reading finished eighth last season, one way or another I don't think they will be aiming for higher than tenth in the Prem next year. Same with Ipswich, fifth one year, down the next.

It was a freak season, a great one but a bit of a fluke where all the players stayed fit, we punched above our weight and rode the crest of a wave - like Reading last year. You're eager to blame Curbs but it was Pards who set us back and were it not for Curbs we'd be lucky to be tenth in the CCC right now...ask Charlton.

At the time there was nowhere near as many billionaire owners and teams spending big as there are now either - it's hard enough to catch Pompey and Blackburn let alone Villa and Everton.

What we do know is that if Curbs does take us to ninth and above, it won't be a fluke and it will probably be sustained. If Curbs takes us into Europe it will take time and sure we might not start off the prettiest, like Everton a few years back, but he offers us a better chance than anyone we could seriously have managing us of taking us into the top six or so and it not just being a one off but him consolidating us. Obviously that takes time, again ask Everton, but it will be well worth it if we make it.