It's all Vince Lombardi's fault. If that S.O.B. hadn't gone to Washington and then got cancer, we'd have won 32 Super Bowls by now. I haven't confirmed it yet but there is a rumor floating around that Mike Sherman actually gave cancer to Lombardi....so you guys are probably right.....it's all Sherman's fault!

Quit saying we have not signed an "Impact Player." What "Impact player" did Pittsburgh sign? How about Seattle?

The truth is we are a young team that has to learn to gel as a unit. It has nothing to do with "Impact Players."

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We don't know that Manual or Picket wont be 'impact players' until the season begins. Heck Ben Taylor could win Defensive MVP. Fact is in the right system some people flourish and in the wrong system some fizzle.

We seem to want players who impacted previous teams because its easier to believe they will have an impact on OUR team.

Free Agent. Key word ... FREE. I was always told to be wary of anything 'free' and the fact that these guys are 'free' agents says something to me. That something is if they are 'free' (for another team to pick up) there must be a reason for that.

Quit saying we have not signed an "Impact Player." What "Impact player" did Pittsburgh sign? How about Seattle?

The truth is we are a young team that has to learn to gel as a unit. It has nothing to do with "Impact Players."

Click to expand...

We don't know that Manual or Picket wont be 'impact players' until the season begins. Heck Ben Taylor could win Defensive MVP. Fact is in the right system some people flourish and in the wrong system some fizzle.

We seem to want players who impacted previous teams because its easier to believe they will have an impact on OUR team.

Free Agent. Key word ... FREE. I was always told to be wary of anything 'free' and the fact that these guys are 'free' agents says something to me. That something is if they are 'free' (for another team to pick up) there must be a reason for that.

Quit saying we have not signed an "Impact Player." What "Impact player" did Pittsburgh sign? How about Seattle?

The truth is we are a young team that has to learn to gel as a unit. It has nothing to do with "Impact Players."

Click to expand...

We don't know that Manual or Picket wont be 'impact players' until the season begins. Heck Ben Taylor could win Defensive MVP. Fact is in the right system some people flourish and in the wrong system some fizzle.

We seem to want players who impacted previous teams because its easier to believe they will have an impact on OUR team.

Free Agent. Key word ... FREE. I was always told to be wary of anything 'free' and the fact that these guys are 'free' agents says something to me. That something is if they are 'free' (for another team to pick up) there must be a reason for that.

Click to expand...

Ben Taylor......defensive MVP?

Oh boy!

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Gime a break or at least one glass of what you are drinking or some of that stuff that you are smoking !!!!!

I disagree with the premise that this franchise is in "dire straits." The Packers had one bad season after an almost unprecedented string of above-average ones, with the exception of the 8-8 in 1999. I'm going to wait and see what happens this season before I start pushing the panic button.

Mike Sherman was not a great coach or a great GM. But he did a respectable job, and he did not leave this team in a shambles.

I disagree with the premise that this franchise is in "dire straits." The Packers had one bad season after an almost unprecedented string of above-average ones, with the exception of the 8-8 in 1999. I'm going to wait and see what happens this season before I start pushing the panic button.

Mike Sherman was not a great coach or a great GM. But he did a respectable job, and he did not leave this team in a shambles.

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Mike Sherman shouldn't get all the blame for the Packer's demise last year. But he shouldn't get much praise for his GM duties either. Go back three years when he traded up in the third round. I was at the edge of my seat because I was positive we just drafted Matt Schaub. Who did we take, B.J. Sander. My cheese brick was thrown at the screen and I went outside and did yard work.

If the truth be told, all GM's screw up. Sherman just did it more frequently. I feel much more comfortable with Uncle Ted running the draft, but I did like how Sherman wasn't afraid to go after the guys he felt we needed in Free Agency. If Sherman were still GM, Woodson and Arrington would already be inked.

Matt Schaub moves Atlanta's offense better than Ron Mexico could ever dream to. Atlanta won't take anything less than a first rounder for him. He is a true west coast offense quarterback and if numbnuts would have drafted him instead of a punter who couldn't win the job, we would have never drafted Aaron Rodgers. We would have taken lb Odell Thurman instead and we wouldn't be in this linebacker mess we currently have.

We know the Packers went steadily downhill from the time he took over-and it accelerated when he took over as GM.

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I really disagree with that statement.

From the time MS took over an 8-8 team the Packers went 9-7, 12-4, 12-4, 10-6, 10-6 and 4-12 for an overall record of 57-39 so I'd hardly say the Packers went steadily downhill from the time he took over. From the time MS took over as GM, the talent was slowly eroded (although one could argue that has more to do with picking late in the draft than it does with who was actually selected i.e. MS the GM was the victim of the success of MS the coach).

TO
I agree with you on drafting in the 20's year after year. This does erode the talent pool, and GB did a marvelous job compensating that for better than a decade.

Warhawk
I agree with you on Sherman being a lousy decision maker in big games. When you are outcoached by Mike Tice, you are not head coach material. Mike Sherman should have been fired after 4th and 26.

All we know is what we know? Where is the steady downhill fall with him as GM? We went from 8-8 to 12-4 then to 10-6. Boy, I dread the days we have to go through that again!!

I know you guys HATE the man because he's not flashy and God forbid he didn't win the Super Bowl but something tells me in a few years we will be pining for the days when we won 3 straight division titles, were looked up to by our division foes and had double digit wins every year.

What were the records of Detroit, Minnesota, and Chicago in those 12-4 seasons? W-L records are distorted sometimes.

This cannot be ignored when judging Sherman. He gave monster contracts to Cletidus Hunt & Joe Johnson (Cheech and Chong). Right there is enough to send someone packing! Are those contracts off the books yet?

From my perspective, this doesn't defend Sherman that much...considering NFL experts say the average draft class takes three years to impact its team in full,

Sherman's first draft in 2001 (3 years = 2004, a first round Loss to Minnesota), the standout was Robert Ferguson, and the first pick was Jamal Reynolds, I'll stop there.

Sherman's second draft in 2002 (3 years = 2005, = 4-12)...Javon Walker, Aaron Kampman, Najeh Davenport, and no other contributors

Just look at our projected roster, how many of our starters came from Sherman...Javon Walker, Scott Wells, Najeh Davenport (not a starter but Sherm needs all the help he can get in this arguement), Al Harris (trade), Aaron Kampman, Nick Barnett, Ahmad Carroll

6/22 starters, and one situational back, wow, your influence leads on. TT has a lot of holes to fill and shouldn't quite get all of the blame

I thought I had my last shots on Sherman about 3 months ago but as i've learned from this board, nothing ever dies

If you had Brett Favre and unlimited power of the Green Bay Packer organization for 6 years....

you should have had 2 SB wins by now!

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Holmgren had one with Favre in his prime, and don't say he would've had more if he would've stayed, that team was in decay as Holmgren left, its just what happens in the NFL

man can't you guys give it a rest just once, go watch a baseball game or something, go for a walk in the park its a nice day (here at least)--if you guyys are this pissed this far before the season, this season will be detremental to everyone's health and sanity

Get a grip people....it's a bottomline business. Look at the records. 32 fucting teams are trying to win the Super Bowl every year. Only one can. Grow up and quit your bitchin'. Odds are you will win the Super Bowl once every 32 years. Deal with it.

And please don't give me that "with Brett Favre you should've won (fill in the blank) Super Bowls". How many Super Bowls did Shula win with Marino? I'm the second biggest Brett Favre asskisser on this forum but I will tell you his performance in the playoffs during the Sherman years had as much to do with those losses as anything else.

Everyone has their opinions but won/loss records are based on facts. For the idiot that is basing our success on the fact that the bears, lions and queens sucked, get real. I believe we didn't even win our division one of those 12-4 years.

Spin if you must but there is no way our record will be better under TT than it was under Sherman.....so far he's 8 games behind and going to be even further behind after year two....No matter what the excuse you make for him, that is a FACT.

My point exactly. This team began to implode over the last several years to a point where MS essentially soley relied on BF to cover his butt.

Anyone that didn't see this team declining in the quality of play and players each year for the last three or four years is totally fooling themselves.

And Mike Sherman is not a HC somewhere else because if he couldn't take BF and the Pack to a Super Bowl he probably wasn't going to get them there either.

One GM that interviewed him for the job said it without saying it. "It's not all in the won-loss record".

P.S. Thanks for the info but I knew what our record in the past several years was before I wrote what i wrote and it is what we know unless maybe you want to support MS as a GM or big game clutch coach. LOL getting support there.

That was me DePack, please don't ever call me and idiot again, and I believe our 12-4 season's were distorted just like I believe San Francisco's unbelievable record in the 90's was aided by the Falcons, Rams, New Orleans Saints sucking *** year after year. When you play 3 crappy teams twice a year, it is not that difficult to be 12-4 versus 9-7. We had a weak division for Sherman to beat up on. Is that too much for you to fathom? When it came time to face a team with equal or better talent the man simply failed.

Yes the Bears had the 13-3 season. I will give you that!

I'll quit beating up on Sherman JW084, when people quit telling me what a good coach he is.

Yea....who are you, profootballtalk.com? Nice quote from an unnamed GM. Hey here's another "Mike sherman was such a great GM that all the other GM's were threatened by him". See....I can make sh1t up also.

I appreciate your point of view but if YOU didn't see the Packers take a huge step backward last year with TT as GM, you're not just fooling yourself, you don't know jack about football. Of course this is just my opinion with no facts. Recognize it? looks kinda stupid, doesn't it?

In my other posts I provided something that really isn't very important in these threads....facts!