Well Willie, I heven't studied the stats like you have, so my comments are coming from a slightly ignorant point of view. Everyone who knows anything at all about baseball knows about Ted Wiliams' greatness, and EVERYONE knows who the Babe is, and Ican't say much more about that....But what about the growing trend of pitchers to intentionally walk anybody who starts to get a reputation as a hitter? It's just frickin' frustrating that they won't pitch to 'em, even though today's pitchers have the most ungodly throwing arms. I may be way off base here (heh) but I think those guys are pussies.

Check complete games stats... innings pitched... games started. Nobody can finish what they start and they don't start anything anymore. Time was a hitter crowding the plate got knocked on his ass, got up, brushed himself off, and knocked the crap out of the ball. Nowadays, with the ever shrinking strike zone, hitters crowd the plate, NO, they stand OVER the plate, wearing arm pads and leg pads and head pads... Fuck, this is BASEBALL not FOOTBALL. If a hitter can just stand over the plate without fear of getting knocked on his ass and it actually "hurting" him, they would have different stats. That's for sure.

I can tell you for a fact that Bob Gibson would have drilled in the batters box and then when they came out to the mound, he would have drilled them there too! Damn... I miss REAL baseball.

And don't get me started on salaries. That's a discussion for another day.

Interestingly, all of the players ahead of Ted -- and most of the players immediately behind him -- played during the dead-ball era. During that time the equipment - like the balls and the gloves - were such that power was rare and hit totals were high.
In the 19th century through 1920s it was not an oddity that the league-leading hitter hit .400.
(In fact, in one year Joe Jackson hit .400+ but lost the batting title to Ty Cobb!)
The beauty of Ted's .406 mark in 1941 was that Ted hit .400 when nobody hit .400!

On the power scale he was on a par with Ruth, and very well may have topped the Bambino had he not lost 5 seasons in his prime to military service in WW2 and Korea.
He ended up with a career total of 521 HR, but, looking at his stats, would have probably added another 175-180 in those missing seasons bringing the total to around 690-700. An extra hot streak or two during those seasons and 715 was definately in reach!

I should ammend that. Ted was a par with Ruth in his potential for a lifetime total of HRs. Given that Ted's best mark was 43 HRs (in 1949), despite his consistency, he was obviously not as prolific a power hitter as Ruth (who regularly hit in the 40s and 50s and, of course, 1927, hit 60... without steroids).

But in the 17 seasons they both actually had as hitters, Ruth only hit less than 34 HR 2 times - '19 when he played 130 games and hit 29 which led the league and '25 when he played 98 games and hit 25. So on a season to season basis, I think my case maight be a bit stroner than yours. Now, Ruth did lead the league in SO 4 times but he also led the league in BB 11 times. A lifetime batting average of .342 is only .002 behind Williams. Plus Williams couldn't match Ruth's other power numbers eg 2B & 3B.

Overall, I would say my arguement is stronger than yours, but just because of the power numbers.

Heh. I very nearly left another post rexcanting what I'd written!! But, I decided that the post could stand as a "let's discuss and celebrate great hitters" - like Ted Williams: Hitter Supreme - rather than as a case for Ted as "Greatest Hitter Ever" (which wasn't specifically made ---- yeah, it's revisionist, but only you and I know that that was what I was doing! er...'til now!!)

Plus we can do some what-ifs on Williams's 5 missed years in his prime and/or Ruth's early years as a damn fine pitcher. He has one of the leading lifetime ERA ever, 2-20 win seasons. Damn, could that guy play or what? I wonder how good a fielder he was. He had to just have a gun for an arm being a pitcher and all. Which brings up who is the best player ever? Much to discuss this spring, summer and fall!

I just wanna know why this bar is full of old timers who can't fucking shaddap about ted willaims and baby freakin ruth! WTF?

I wanna know when Clemens is gonna finally kill somebody, if Smoltz is ever gonna pitch 9 innings again, and if Greg Maddux is actually a clone created by russian scientists working in top secret mormon laboratorys in salt lake city utah!

And By The Way, John Rocker was RIGHT about all of you damned subway eatin yanks!

The problem, though, with comparing hitters of different eras is that we have only the stats to go by -- and they only tell us how they performed against their particular competition. Athletes are better trained and better equipped today.
Was Cobb really a better hitter than Tony Gwynn? Or Wade Boggs? Or even Bill Madlock?
If we could somehow time-warp Cobb, in his prime, to face todays major league pitchers, for all we know he'd be lucky to hit .290.

Remember Mark Spitz? He won 7 gold medals in the 1972 Olympics. Yet, his best performance in '72 wouldn't even have qualified for the '88 Olympic team!

Mark Spitz also set 7 World Records while winning those 7 Gold Medals... don' forget that! He was a totally dominate athlete is his sport. Don't you think that whatever he had inside of him to drive him to waste everyone he raced against would be just as effective today. And take into account that had he raced today, he would have had the advantages of modern sports medicine, training techniques, and technologies. He still would be kicking their ass, IMHO.

Fair point, Madfish. But if we say that Hornsby or Cobb are near the top of the list because of their astronomical batting averages, we have to account for the fact that the fielders they were hitting through in their day had gloves the size of sock puppets. So, how can we compare Cobb's lifetime .367 batting average to Tony Gwynn's .339? Or Cobb to Stan Musial .331 AVG with 475 HRs in the '40s & '50s?
Perhaps all those pre-Ruthian (deadball era) hitters and pitchers really oughta be evaluated apart from the post-Ruthians.

Yeah... forgot about those groovey gloves they used to wear. They would also leave them in the field for the other team to use. I wonder who owned the gloves? The ballteam? Certainly not the ballplayer?

I guess the point I am trying to make is this:

I athlete with superior athletic skills and determination to those around him would be just as successful in any era. How many HR you think Ruth would hit today? How high an average would Hornsby have? What would Musial's numbers be? I think they would have the same margin of superior performance to today's players as they were to players of their era.

Hornsby's edge in HR don't offset Cobb's other power numbers, although Cobb did have 4300 more AB and 800 more games in 1 more season. To be fair to Hornsby, 5 of those seasons he played in less than 25 games.

Hornsby's 5 year run from 1921 through 1925 was perhaps the greatest sustained hitting ever seen. Hornsby's BA during those seasons: .397, .401, .384, .424, .403. The year before that run his BA was .370

I'm changing my mind in the middle of this post... and here's why...

Taking Hornsby's years in which he played "full" seasons, he clearly would have hit more 2B, HR, RBI. BA is going to be a real close race, 3B going to Cobb. Overall... as a hitter I want Hornsby!

Greatest Hitters Ever

Madfish Willie's Greatest Hitter Ever - #4 Stan Musial
Awards:
• 1943: National League Most Valuable Player
• 1946: National League Most Valuable Player
• 1948: National League Most Valuable Player
• 1999: Named to All-Century Team (OF)

After 22 years as a Cardinal, Stan Musial ranked at or near the top of Baseball's all-time lists in almost every batting category. The dead-armed Class C pitcher became a slugging outfielder who topped the .300 mark 17 times and won seven National League batting titles with his famed corkscrew stance and ringing line drives. A three-time MVP, he played in 24 All-Star Games. He was nicknamed "The Man" by Dodger fans for the havoc he wrought at Ebbets Field, and is still renowned for his skilled harmonica playing.

Did you know... ... that on May 2, 1954, Stan Musial hit a record five home runs in a doubleheader against the Giants, including two round-trippers off future Hall of Fame pitcher Hoyt Wilhelm?

Around The Horn...

Opening Day! WooHoo!!!

The real Opening Day where everybody plays, not the piece of shit exhibition baseball in Japan and Mexico and everywhere else! I have to say that all that other stuff really dilutes the impact and excitment of what used to be a special day every year. The Boys of Summer... enternally young... playing the game we love so much... one more time!

Kaz Matsui hits his first HR in the ML... in his first AB... leading off the game... on Opening Day. How many times has that ever been done? Wave the magic wand ---> This is only the second time in Major League history !

Bonds parks one and is one away from tying Willie Mays at 660 for #3 All Time Home Run list.

Randy Johnson is being weird because he thinks he is tipping his pitches. Damn... you throw the ball 100 MPH... just blaze away... they can't hit THAT heater even of they KNOW it's coming.

Todd Helton, my candidate for the Hitter's Triple Crown this year, went 4 for 4 in the Colorado Rockies opener! Who was the last Major Leaguer to hit for the Triple Crown, you ask? Carl Yaztremski, Boston Red Sox, 1968 !

In other Sports news:

The University of Connecticutt won both the Men's College Basketball Title & the Women's College Basketball Title this year. How many times has that ever happened? This is the first time ever !

The women's team just completed back-to-back-to-back championship seasons!

Greatest Hitters Ever

Madfish Willie's Greatest Hitter Ever - #5 Joe Dimaggio
Awards:
• 1939: American League Most Valuable Player
• 1941: American League Most Valuable Player
• 1947: American League Most Valuable Player
• 1999: Named to All-Century Team (OF)

Joe DiMaggio is remembered as one of the game's most graceful athletes  a "picture player" both at bat and in center field. Many rate his 56-consecutive-game hitting streak in 1941 as the top baseball feat of all time. "The Yankee Clipper" used an unusually wide stance in winning two batting championships and three MVP awards. In 13 seasons he amassed 361 homers, averaged 118 RBI annually and compiled a .325 lifetime batting mark. At Baseball's 1969 Centennial Celebration, he was named the game's greatest living player.

Did you know... ... that in 1933, eight years before his famed 56-game hitting streak, Joe DiMaggio fashioned a 61-game hitting streak with the San Francisco Seals of the Pacific Coast League?

Greatest Hitters Ever

Madfish Willie's Greatest Hitter Ever - #6 Rogers Hornsby
Awards:
• 1922: National League Triple Crown
• 1925: National League Triple Crown
• 1925: National League Most Valuable Player
• 1929: National League Most Valuable Player
• 1999: Named to All-Century Team (2B)

Perhaps the game's most consistent right-handed hitter, Rogers Hornsby captured seven batting titles  including six in a row  averaging better than .400 three times. A complete player whose passion for the game was shown both on and off the field, Hornsby's .424 mark in 1924 is a National League record for the 20th century and his career average of .359 is the highest ever in the National League. "The Rajah," a two-time MVP and Triple Crown winner, was the player-manager of the Cardinals' first World Championship team in 1926.

Did you know... that on September 13, 1931, Rogers Hornsby became the first big leaguer to connect for an extra-inning, pinch-hit grand slam, as the Cubs defeated the Braves in 11 innings, 11-7?

Greatest Hitters Ever

Madfish Willie's Greatest Hitter Ever - #7 Barry Bonds
Awards:
• 1990: National League Most Valuable Player
• 1990: National League Gold Glove at OF
• 1991: National League Gold Glove at OF
• 1992: National League Gold Glove at OF
• 1992: National League Most Valuable Player
• 1993: National League Most Valuable Player
• 1993: National League Gold Glove at OF
• 1994: National League Gold Glove at OF
• 1994 ESPY: Outstanding Baseball Performer
• 1994 ESPY: Male Athlete of the Year
• 1996: National League Gold Glove at OF
• 1997: National League Gold Glove at OF
• 1998: National League Gold Glove at OF
• 2001: National League Most Valuable Player
• 2002 ESPY: Moment of the Year
• 2002: National League Most Valuable Player
• 2002 ESPY: Outstanding Baseball Performer
• 2003: National League Most Valuable Player

2003 Season
Though he again posted amazing numbers while winning his sixth National League MVP Award, it was a difficult season for Barry Bonds, who played most of the season knowing his father, Bobby, was dying of cancer. Bonds was on the bereavement list twice, including a second time when his father passed away on August 23. When he returned, Bonds openly talked about the tough times he was experiencing, saying he was having trouble sleeping. Bonds stayed overnight in a Phoenix hospital with a rapid heartbeat in early September.

Hitting
Although Bonds is approaching 40 years old, he has the bat speed of a man much younger. With his short, quick swing, he's still able to turn on inside pitches and drive them out of the park. As the years have progressed he's become an even more disciplined hitter, drawing an astonishing 523 walks the past three seasons. There was a time when Bonds' weakness was hitting against lefthanders, but that's no longer the case.

Baserunning & Defense
Bonds' days as a Gold Glove left fielder are over. He's bulked up over the years and has lost his agility and foot speed. However, he still can keep runners from taking the extra base with a quick release and intelligent positioning. He also cut his errors from the previous season from eight to two. Bonds no longer is an elite basestealer, but he was 7-for-7 last season, including the 500th of his career.

2004 Outlook
There seems no reason to believe Bonds can't continue his astounding pace, even though he'll turn 40 on July 24. He needs two homers to tie his godfather, Willie Mays, for third place on the all-time list. Bonds has to continue to remain patient at the plate; at times, it appeared he grew frustrated with the walks he constantly received, going into mini-slumps when teams did pitch to him.

Greatest Hitters Ever

Madfish Willie's Greatest Hitter Ever - #8 Jimmie Foxx
Awards:
• 1932: American League Triple Crown
• 1932: American League Most Valuable Player
• 1933: American League Most Valuable Player
• 1933: American League Triple Crown
• 1938: American League Most Valuable Player

A fearsome power hitter whose strength earned him the moniker "The Beast," Jimmie Foxx was the anchor of an intimidating Philadelphia Athletics lineup that produced pennant winners from 1929 to 1931. The second batter in history to top 500 home runs, Foxx belted 30 or more homers in a record 12 consecutive seasons and drove in more than 100 runs 13 consecutive years, including a career-best 175 with Boston in 1938. He won back-to-back MVP awards in 1932 and 1933, capturing the Triple Crown the latter year.

Did you know... that Jimmie Foxx holds the record for most walks in a big league game with six on June 16, 1938?

Yeah, but yer definately weighing SOs and BBs too much. I just looked at the Mickey Mantle rankings and 1956 is absolutely his best season, not 1957.

The difficulty with finding a formula for offensive rankings is that there are so many ways for a hitter to be productive. A pitcher, IMO, is easy to rank 'cause all you really need is one stat: ERA. But, for a hitter, you can could HRs, RBIs, runs scored, on-base percentage and baserunning (SBs especially), etc etc etc.

The Slugging Percentage is an attempt to balance different kinds of production, but it ends up putting superpower hitters like McGwire and Dave Kingman above more obvious producers like Rod Carew and Derek Jeter.

I agree that different specificaltions will yield much different results. I just wanted to do something really simple that everyone could understand... and not have to be a friggin rocket surgeon to understand it.

I think that sluggers who strike out too much are not good HITTERS - Sosa, A-Rod, Reggie Jackson (asshole! - from a personal experience).

Likewise, if they accumulate BB, whether intentional or not, then I don't think they have a good "eye" for the strike zone ala Ted Williams.

I'd really like to discuss Ted Williams and his three missing seasons... when we get to his ranking. The season before he left he won the Triple Crown and the second season after he returned, he won it again! So you have to figure he cumulative stats would have been astronomical had he the benefit of the lost seasons.

Didn't you do a series of posts during the World Series or was that Rocket Jones or someone else?

I think I'll have a baseball comment party under the last call comment party. That way everyone that wants to can follow a long thread and add thei opinions... what do you think>

ANd Ted Williams actually missed FIVE seasons; 3 for WW2 and 2 for Korea. Five seasons in his prime! Just imagine what his lifetime stats might have been if the world wasn't periodically full of a**hole tyrants!!!

Greatest Hitters Ever

Madfish Willie's Greatest Hitter Ever - #9 Henry Aaron
Awards:
• 1957: National League Most Valuable Player
• 1958: National League Gold Glove at RF
• 1959: National League Gold Glove at RF
• 1960: National League Gold Glove at RF
• 1999: Named to All-Century Team (OF)

"Hammerin' Hank" Aaron earned his nickname by clubbing 755 roundtrippers over his 23-year career. Not only did he raise the bar for home runs, but he also established 12 other major league career records, including most games, at-bats, total bases and RBI. Aaron played the infield but gained recognition as an excellent outfielder, winning three Gold Glove awards. He earned National League Most Valuable Player honors in 1957, and appeared in a record 24 All-Star Games. A quiet and effective leader, Aaron is now an executive with the Braves.
Did you know ... that Hank Aaron, a former member of the Negro American League's Indianapolis Clowns, was the last Negro league player to also play in the major leagues?
Home Run Facts: Aaron and brother Tommie rank first in homers by siblings (768); he combined with Eddie Mathews to hit most homers as teammates (863); he and Mathews are the only teammates to hit 400 homers each as teammates (442 for Hank, 421 for Eddie); hit 385 in home parks, 370 on the road; hit 185 homers in Milwaukee County Stadium as a Brave, 10 as a Brewer; hit 190 homers in Atlanta Fulton-County Stadium; he hit exactly 400 solo homers (53%); 242 two-run homers (32%); 97 three-run homers (13%); 16 grand slams; hit two homers in a game 61 times (3rd, behind Babe Ruth and Willie Mays); hit three homers in a game once (6/21/1959); hit 14 extra-inning homers; one inside-the-park home run (1967); three pinch-hit home runs (1962, 1966, 1973); hit 534 homers off right-handed pitchers (71%); 221 homers off left-handed pitchers (29%); victimized 310 pitchers in 32 ballparks; hit three homers in the World Series and three more in the 1969 National League Championship Series; blasted two All-Star game home runs.

Here are his complete career statistics
~ Check out the career rankings at the bottom of the table! WOW!

Here are his top 15 productive seasons according to the Madfish Willie Index:
~ Hammering Hank was the model of consistancy... check out the rank grouping and the year after year of similar stats.

Greatest Hitters Ever

Madfish Willie's Greatest Hitter Ever - #10 Willie Mays
Awards:
• 1951: National League Rookie of the Year
• 1954: National League Most Valuable Player
• 1957: Gold Glove at CF
• 1958: National League Gold Glove at CF
• 1959: National League Gold Glove at CF
• 1960: National League Gold Glove at CF
• 1961: National League Gold Glove at OF
• 1962: National League Gold Glove at OF
• 1963: National League Gold Glove at OF
• 1963: All-Star Game Most Valuable Player
• 1964: National League Gold Glove at OF
• 1965: National League Gold Glove at OF
• 1965: National League Most Valuable Player
• 1966: National League Gold Glove at OF
• 1967: National League Gold Glove at OF
• 1968: National League Gold Glove at OF
• 1968: All-Star Game Most Valuable Player
• 1999: Named to All-Century Team (OF)

"I never saw a fucking ball go out of a fucking ballpark so fucking fast in my fucking life." - Leo Durocher (1951)

"I don't make history. I catch fly balls."

Actually, Willie Mays did both. When Willie Mays joined the New York Giants in 1951, black players were still a rarity in the major leagues. Before Willie Mays, the typical baseball scout's report on a talented black player would mention the player's color first, his ability second. When scouts described young Willie Mays, they mentioned his remarkable skills first.

For 22 seasons, Mays astonished fans and fellow players with his hitting, his running and his unsurpassed fielding. As sportswriter Arthur Daley put it, he "could do everything and do it better than anyone else, (and) with a joyous grace." In the 1950s and '60s, fans couldn't get enough of Willie Mays. In the first flush of his fame and popularity, he would get up early to play stickball in the street with the worshipful children who gathered in front of his Harlem boarding house.

Greatest Hitters Ever

Madfish Willie's Greatest Hitter Ever - #11 Mickey Mantle
Awards:
• 1956: American League Triple Crown
• 1956: American League Most Valuable Player
• 1957: American League Most Valuable Player
• 1962: American League Gold Glove at OF
• 1962: American League Most Valuable Player
• 1999: Named to All-Century Team (OF)

Mickey Mantle ranks among the leading home run hitters in baseball history. Mantle hit 536 home runs, as a switch hitter, in regular season play. He spent his entire major league career with the New York Yankees, from 1951 through 1968, and played center field for most of his career. Towards the end of his career, he played first base.

Mantle led the American League in home runs four times. He was named the most valuable player in the American League three times. Mantle hit 18 World Series home runs, which is probably a record that will never be broken. Unlike most sluggers, he had great speed. However, various leg injuries reduced Mantle's base running effectiveness during the 1960's.

Baseball Quotes

"Anybody with ability can play in the big leagues. But to be able to trick people year in and year out the way I did, I think that was a much greater feat."

"If a guy hits .300 every year, what does he have to look forward to? I always tried to stay around .190, with three or four RBI. And I tried to get them all in September. That way I always had something to talk about during the winter."

"In 1962 I was named Minor League Player of the Year. It was my second season in the Bigs."

"I signed with the Milwaukee Braves for $3,000. That bothered my dad at the time because he didn't have that kind of dough. But he eventually scraped it up."

"People don't know this but I helped the Cardinals win the pennant. I came down with hepatitis. The trainer injected me with it."

"The biggest thrill a ballplayer can have is when your son takes after you. That happened when my Bobby was in his championship Little League game. He really showed me something. Struck out three times. Made an error that lost the game. Parents were throwing things at our car and swearing at us as we drove off. Gosh, I was proud."

"I had slumps that lasted into the winter."

"I led the league in 'Go get 'em next time.'"

"I set records that will never be equaled. In fact, I hope 90% of them don't even get printed."

"Career highlights? I had two. I got an intentional walk from Sandy Koufax and I got out of a rundown against the Mets."

"When I came up to bat with three men on and two outs in the ninth, I looked in the other team's dugout and they were already in street clothes."

"When I looked at the third base coach, he turned his back on me."

"Wait until it stops rolling and pick it up." On how to catch a knuckleball.

"I hit a grand slam off Ron Herbel and when his manager Herman Franks came out to get him, he was bringing Herbel's suitcase."

"Sporting goods companies pay me not to endorse their products."

"Baseball hasn't forgotten me. I go to a lot of Old-Timers games and I haven't lost a thing. I sit in the bullpen and let people throw things at me. Just like old times."

Baseball Quotes

"Anybody with ability can play in the big leagues. But to be able to trick people year in and year out the way I did, I think that was a much greater feat."

"If a guy hits .300 every year, what does he have to look forward to? I always tried to stay around .190, with three or four RBI. And I tried to get them all in September. That way I always had something to talk about during the winter."

"In 1962 I was named Minor League Player of the Year. It was my second season in the Bigs."

"I signed with the Milwaukee Braves for $3,000. That bothered my dad at the time because he didn't have that kind of dough. But he eventually scraped it up."

"People don't know this but I helped the Cardinals win the pennant. I came down with hepatitis. The trainer injected me with it."

"The biggest thrill a ballplayer can have is when your son takes after you. That happened when my Bobby was in his championship Little League game. He really showed me something. Struck out three times. Made an error that lost the game. Parents were throwing things at our car and swearing at us as we drove off. Gosh, I was proud."

"I had slumps that lasted into the winter."

"I led the league in 'Go get 'em next time.'"

"I set records that will never be equaled. In fact, I hope 90% of them don't even get printed."

"Career highlights? I had two. I got an intentional walk from Sandy Koufax and I got out of a rundown against the Mets."

"When I came up to bat with three men on and two outs in the ninth, I looked in the other team's dugout and they were already in street clothes."

"When I looked at the third base coach, he turned his back on me."

"Wait until it stops rolling and pick it up." On how to catch a knuckleball.

"I hit a grand slam off Ron Herbel and when his manager Herman Franks came out to get him, he was bringing Herbel's suitcase."

"Sporting goods companies pay me not to endorse their products."

"Baseball hasn't forgotten me. I go to a lot of Old-Timers games and I haven't lost a thing. I sit in the bullpen and let people throw things at me. Just like old times."

Stengelese

Former New YOrk Yankee and New York Mets manager, Casel Stengel, became known as "The Ol' Perfesser," holding forth in bars until all hours of the night with what he called "my writers." The key to his charm was the highly developed art form that came to be known as Stengelese, a personal jabberwocky of rambling double-talk, gibberish, non sequiturs, and catch phrases that left his audience alternately amused, bewildered and mildly better informed.

I found it very odd that Aaron and Mays didn't make any of the top 50 seasons. I guess not high enough batting averages to qualify. A-Rod has too many SO and too few BB to rank very high on the list.

Todd Helton - After only 7 seasons, including a first season of 26 games and [293] rating, is #5 All Time Greatest Hitter (Lifetime Stats)... ahead of Bonds, Mays, Aaron! Let's see if he can continue this pace for 10 or so more years.

If Babe Ruth's 1921 season would have turned 5 SO into 5 BB, he would had scored out at [682] for the Greatest Hitting Season Ever!

In 1927, Ruth at #15 and Gehring at #19 best hitting seasons ever!

In 1931, Ruth at #5 and Gehring at #12 best hitting seasons ever!

Best two back to back seasons were Ruth in 1921 #3 and 1920 #9.

Best back to back to back seasons were Gehrig 1930 #13, 1931 #12, 1932 #25.

Best five consecutive season run was for Ted Williams over 1941, 1942, 1945, 1947, 1948. Don't forget that Ted's career was inturrupted by the Korean war, depriving Ted of the chance to become the undisputed best all-time hitter. It would be interesting to do an analysis on how his projected totals over those years would have affected his final carrer totals.

I dont understand how you're weighting these stats. While your criteria are good, there's no comparing RBIs to BBs and SOs, because both are already reflected in the BA. Therefore you may be giving them too much weight

The RBI is the only number that matters on gameday. With high RBIs, and a high batting average, who really cares whether or not they were home runs?

You should be looking for a "productivity factor" which could even include such minutiae as comparing RBIs in games won to those in games lost.

The best overall hitter will be the guy who put his team on top, year after year.

Hitting is a different thing than total offensive production. Offensive Productivity would include, in my opinion, Runs Scored, RBI, Stolen Bases, Batting Average, Walks. In short, all the things necessary to score runs.

My criteria is outlined in the post below, but I'll try to explian a little better here.

The best hitter will hit with a combination of power (HR) and average (BA). He needs to drive in runs (RBI) as that is THE name of the game. A good hitter will walk (BB), not included in BA, whether intentional or not, showing that he can manage the strike zone and has an "good eye". The best hitter will rarely srtike out (SO), see Ted Williams vs A-Rod or Mantle or Reggie Jackson or Sammy Sosa.

HR are weighted a little heavier in this equation because they are in HR, RBI, BA. BB are not accounted for in BA so they get added to the numbers. SO is weighted negatively because it is included in BA and then subtracted again from the numbers. Everything else has an equal weight factor in the total number.

Add all these numbers and get the greatest overall hitter. I'm using the top 15 seasons of each player's career to account for longevity and to get an apples to apples comparison. There are too many short seasons at the beginning and at the end of the career with injuries, etc that would skew the results. Babe Ruth's numbers would be really skewd, because he was a pitcher at the beginning of his career (and a damn fine one at that). Unfortunately, Ted Williams lost 3 prime seasons of his career to the Korean War. The season before he went to service he won the Triple Crown and the second season back he won the Triple Crown again!

I'll maybe do an Offensive Production comparison after I finish this. I think that most of the names will be the same with the addition of some high BA and SB players: Ty Cobb, Rickey Henderson, etc.

Ok... What we are talking about here is Madfish Willie's Greatest Hitter Ever analysis... not L Ranchero or F Camino or anyone else... so just read it and be quiet or better yet, do one on your site so I can come over there and make fun of you for a change!

Greater Hitters Ever

I've been doing some research on who is the greatest hitter in baseball history. I started my quest after looking at Rogers Hornsby's batting averages. Damn... that man could hit!

Well, how would you go about determining who is the greatest hitter? Not some long drawn out mathematical equation that only a fucking rocket surgeon could understand... a straight-forward approach that the everyday fan can understand.

Here's my thinking...

The greatest hitter would have to hit Home Runs.
The greatest hitter would have to have a lot of RBIs.
The greatest hitter would have to hit for a high Batting Averages.
The greatest hitter would have to accumulate a lot of Bases on Balls.
The greatest hitter would have to have very few Strike Outs.

My formula is add HR, RBI, BA, BB, subtract SO to arrive at a total number. Rank the hitter's totals by year.

Count the number of times the hitters placed in the top 50 and the hitters' placement in those rankings.

I was thinking about adding Runs Scored, but that is not a function of pure hitting. Also, by adding that stat to the equation, it would skew the results in favor of the Home Run hitter. The HR would be counted as a Run, HR, RBI. I'll leave Runs Scored out of the equation unless anyone has any other ideas about modifying the formula. [The only adjustment would be to maybe do RBI less HR for a true RBI total - that way the HR totals aren't weighted]

Also, I didn't really want to include the down-side of the careers where someone has diminished skills, hanging on too long, etc. I wanted the comparisons to be based on their outstanding seasons over a period of at least 15 years.

I have several candidates on my list that meet the requirements for power and average: Ruth, Gehrig, Hornsby, Mays, Williams, Aaron, Bonds, Musial.

Starting tomorrow, I will profile the stats of the sixth greatest hitter of all time and shine a spotlight on some of the more outstanding features of that player's career.

Each day I will profile another player until we reach Madfish Willie's Greatest Hitter of All Time!

Baseball Quotes

"Statistics are the lifeblood of baseball. In no other sport are so many available and studied so assiduously by participants and fans. Much of the game's appeal, as a conversation piece, lies in the opportunity the fan gets to back up opinions and arguments with convincing figures, and it is entirely possible that more American boys have mastered long division by dealing with batting averages than in any other way."
~Leonard Koppert in A Thinking Mans Guide to Baseball (1967)

"They both (statistics & bikinis) show a lot, but not everything."~Toby Harrah [Infielder]

"When I negotiated Bob Stanley's contract with the Red Sox, we had statistics demonstrating he was the third-best pitcher in the league. They had a chart showing he was the sixtieth-best pitcher on the Red Sox!"~Bob Woolf [Agent]

Triple Crown

The hitting Triple Crown has only been achieved 16 times in MLB history. Two players, Rogers Hornsby & Ted Williams, completed the feat twice. So, only 14 players have ever won the hitting Triple Crown!

Carl Yastrzemski of the Boston Red Sox, was the last triple crown winner in Major League Baseball in 1967.

This guy has some interesting ideas about changing the current requirements for the Triple Crown. I can tell he is not a die-in-the-wool baseball fan. He's full of shit! Don't believe a word he has to say!

Every year I follow the stats with interest to see if anyone has a shot a being a triple crown winner. Last year Albert Pujols gave it a hellava run, finishing with 43 (T4), 124 (T4), .359 (1) after petering out a little at the end of the season.

Of current players, it looks to me like Pujols has the best shot at achieving the feat. He hits for average and power and is good with men on base.

Todd Helton has a shot too. If Colorado were in the AL, he would have 2 [6] seasons: 2000 at 4,1,1 and 2001 at 2,1,3. He plays in a hitters' park and gets lots of at bats. His main malfunction is that he is in the same league as Pujols, Bonds, Sosa, Walker.

Bonds won't do it because his RBI totals will always be affected by the number of walks, intentional or not, he accumulates.

A-Rod won't do it because he hasn't hit for high average since 96 when he led the league with a .358 BA. Also, he's moving out of a hitter's park at Texas and into Yankee Stadium, not known for being friendly to right-handed pull hitters. He will have a tougher time hitting his usual 40 HR this year because of that.

Is there anyone else in the AL that is capable of the Triple Crown? I can't think of anyone right off the top of my head. Carlos Delgado perhaps?

Other past near misses in the past with top 5 finishes in the stats in their league:

Good call Darren, although his power numbers are not high enough. He would have led the AL last year with .330, but his 25 HR/79RBI would have dropped him to 28/38 for [67] points in my scale.

He is in a good lineup now for RBI's. If they hit him in front of Anderson, he might get some better pitches to hit for power. If they pitch him behind Anderson, his RBIs go way up. Either way, he should have a bang-up season barring injury!

Just transposed some numbers to the AL for Vlad... in 2000, he would have had a [5] point season 44(2), 123(2), 345(1).

In looking at his career stats, it looks like he may have a better shot than even Helton. A-Rod won't lead the league in HR this year, although he may have some really good RBI numbers. The batting averages in the AL have tended to lower than the NL in the past few years.

Who's On First?

Anybody know anythiong about Fantasy Baseball and setting up a league?

I'm gonna start up blogging again in a couple of weeeks... around the start of baseball season. I was thinking about running a fantasy league. If you have any info or links that I could look at, ket me know.

Also, I'll be tracking a couple of teams all year... maybe one or two in each league... Texas Rangers (or maybe not) because I used to live about three miles from the stadium, although they have shit for pitching every year... you give me some of your favorite teams and I'll let you know what I think.

I found a thingy over at MLB.com. I set up a free league with 11 teams. Any of you baseball fans out there want to play let me know. I'll be checking out the site and updating in another post as soon as I figure out what to do.

I also got a couple of ideas to use for some little contests to run over here.

Same with pitchers for the Texas Rangers... Kevin Brown being the foremost example... trade em away and they get World Series rings for the Marlins (Cook)... Or let their best playerrs get away and they get World Series rings for the Marlins (Pudge). Although Pudge is only in it for the money, he accidentally got a ring last year... he's always been saddled with the complaint that he couldn't handle pitchers very well or call a good game. Don't get me wrong - he is the finest defensive catcher that ever lived (IMO) with a rifle arm. Best pick off artiest ever.

I'm thinking maybe follow the Cardinals and one other team in the NL, the Yankees and one other theam in the NL. There are a lot of Cubs fans in the blogosphere already, so I don't know if covering them would be that informative, although it would be good for lively debates.

Eric, don't be a limp dick. Pop some viagra and go for another round. I'm not stoppin' the party 'till the poopy-britches Bartender posts an entry officially kicking us all out. Figure we can keep it running another 2 weeks or so...