Forty-one comments

Ridee from the Fused Album…

This is a rough transcription from McGoldrick’s take on Ridee. I found it to be in three so I assumed it was a waltz. Great tune. I recommend hearing the recording and listening to all of the little changes McGoldrick pulls on his flute. Definitely a keeper for all flute players, whistle, etc. :)

More information on this tune

This tune is well-known in Brittany, since it’s a traditional. Diarmaid Moynihan composed only the second tune, "Paperbird", that they played toghether, with Calico.

"Ridee" is not really a title : it’s the name of the dance… so it’s not a waltz, it’s a ridée ! The ridée is a collective dance from the south of Brittany, in circle, with quite fast arms moves, and the steps are based on a 6 beats ("6 temps") cycle. Some ridées, like this one, are composed of 12 beats parts : they are usually written in 3/4 (not in 6/8). But some ridées are constructed on a less regular basis, and it doesn’t seem to bother the dancers.
This ridée has no specific title, like most of the instrumental tunes in Brittany. There are dozens of ridées. Only those that are sung with words have a title.
Other examples of ridées played by Irish musicians :
Oisin McAuley, "Far from the Hills of Donegal" album : track 6, "Gilles Le Bigot’s Swing and Tears" ;
Lunasa, "Redwood" album : track 4, "Fest-noz" ;
Celtic Fiddle Festival, "Rendez-vous" album : track 8, the melody "Le coeur de pierre" is followed by 3 or 4 themes of ridée…

Thanks fiddlebzh, I’m figthing a toothache and it is winning I think. I cut and pasted the headers and forgot to switch the T & R from this one when I did the note corrections… In Breizh, as you will not doubt know, some folks notate the ‘laridé à six temps’ as 3/2… Interesting you note this particular melody as being a regular. It isn’t one I recognized, but worked on others I do know to try to make sense of it… I have seen some space it like so, and others where the swing ‘>’ is included in the notation ~

Submitted on April 4th 2007 by Jeffery.

If you look at Jeffrey’s original ABC’s you’ll see where I went wrong, cutting and pasting and not finishing the edit ~ here it is, just in case he finally comes back here and does the good thing or at least correcting the ABC’s ~

Hetty is confused!`¬?/’

How is it that a 3/4 tune (whether entitled as a waltz or not) is notated with two pairs of triplets making it playable as a jig? A 3/4 tune should have 3 clear beats to the bar whereas two pairs of triplets gives 2 main beats to the bar. i.e 6/8 . I have no complaint with the actual melody as a 6/8 tune but it does give me a bit of a short curcuit for the time signature to be so contradictory.

I have just played it as a 3/4 and it sound right also but I really had to work and think hard at re-reading the rhythm. in fact here are two different tunes. so which one are we to play then. And should not the music notation make it clear?

That’s it Jeffery, but think of it as 3 pulses rather than 6. I only gave that 6 one as an example. The first example is more in keeping with the form, and it can be notated either way, 3/4 or 3/2. After getting some transcripts in 3/2 I started favouring them that way. But as 3’s the grouping would be as first given…

After I made the changes it started making sense and I like it. As said, it wasn’t one I was familiar with. You did a fair transcription despite the initial setup… Well done…

Listen again!

This has been bugging me all day so I sat down, (more restful than standing) listened with the intention of transposing it myself and I’m sorry to say but I am sure you’ve both not got it quite right.
There is a lead-in note. very crucial and that is what I think has thrown the rhythm out. From youir abc’s it still did not sound right.
here is mine:

McGoldrick plays many variations throughout but this is the basis in the first couple of times through. glad to say that "Speed" was not the confuser but did help me to realise something was amiss so in some ways it bacame the "clarifier". A pity that the notation here cannot be altered - Or can it??

Spot the deliberate? mistake

Oh yes, another thing. I had a little help with the speed part by slowing down the tune on windows media player. Anywho, I’ll listen again and see what you mean by the lead in note… Btw sorry, I accidently missed your previous edit (that is, the correction that was not just the first bar). I’ll keep your pointer in mind though… I’m quite sure you are much better at transcribing than I.

“Ridée Six Temps” ~ actually, delayed reaction ~ it is a duplication ~

And this is one I am familiar with… I don’t have McGoldrick’s recording to make any comparisons with, only Breton, but the way it was given here only confused me… :-/ Then with your take on it Hetty I half remembered it was already here ~ and yes, it is… Here are those ABC’s as well:

Really? Before I submitted my transcription of this tune I did an ‘Advanced Search’ and typed in the first few notes to see if there was an overlap. apparently it didn’t come up? Anywho… I’ll try to submit more tunes later… I tried my best :). But, I guess not a lot was lost in this. We’ve just gained a whole lot of variations to try out. ;)

Oh, the Irish! They love their ridées six temps!

First, "ridées six temps" means "ridée in six time." This should clear up the confusion heard earlier. Second, and obviously, they should be written in 6/8… And the Irish scratch their head. "Wouldn’t that make it a jig?" Sean inquires. "No" Yann replies. "It is danced in 3 groups of 2 instead of 2 groups of 3, which makes it a VERY different tune compared to a jig."

Also, There is no such thing as a "Laridé à Six Temps." there are "Laridé" (in cut time), and "Laridé huit temps" (in 8 time). Ridées six temps are from Redon in southwestern Brittany. Laridé are from further west, and Laridé huit temps are from western Brittany. Different dances, different tunes all. Just like a reel and a hornpipe are different tunes.

There will be a test at the end of the week. Perhaps if you kids went to the source (Breton musicians) instead of getting these kinds of tunes from Irish musicians, we wouldn’t have to do this!

Correction…

Ridée six temps ~ Ridée six temps ~ Ridée six temps = 3

Ridée six temps ~ Yes, and three count in a measure is usually signified by the first number in the key signature, or "3". "6" is taken as duple, not treble, or two beats to the bar. There is nothing wrong, whatsoever, with counting a "3" as 12, 34, 56 ~ which, surprise, surprise, is "six temps"!!! So, while 6/8 IS completely inappropriate for the key signature for Ridées six temps ~ having a "3" in the maths is perfect, and in this case 3/2 works beautifully…and 6/8 (duple time) would be cack…

Edit

I just came back to this today to look at the comments again. I have an announcement about this tune. Hetty, you are right. I apologise for my ignorance. I took the ABC and played it over a few times, and then compared it to mine, and I saw why that lead in was crucial. It was my first transcript, so I guess there is a bit to excuse me there, but I apologise for not listening to someone more "seasoned" than I. Anywho, I’m going to work this tune into a set now… any suggestions of what to have with it?

6/4 or 3/2-3/4 ~ & Laridé à Six Temps

While 9/8 can be barred in Ireland 3-3-3, and elsewhere 3-2-2-2, etc. ~ 6/4 is more naturally groupe as 3-3, and 2-2-2 (3x2), more likely to be represented as 3/… That said, I can understand, as previously mentioned, why some would do it as 6/4 and 1-1-1-1-1-1, or 1-2-3-4-5-6…

Laridé à Six Temps = Left, Right, Left, Hop, Right, Hop ~ 7-6-5-4-/4

That is the key, however, I’ve gone and dusted off my collections of Laridé / Ridée, Six & Huit, and ~ mixed bars, or meters, are not at all unusual, maybe some Quebecois influence is at work. I have Six Temps tunes that are composed of a mix of bar lengths, and if we take 6/4 as the basic to compare with, rather than 3/2, here are some of the bars I have mixed into different tunes, starting with the obvious ~
6/4 (3/2)
5/4
4/4 (2/2)
7/4

So, the primary beat can move around and the basic dance continues, catching up with that pulse now and then. That is some of the allowable play of the form, like with Irish musicians who used to vary tempo for a lark, in this case it is varying the position of that main beat, a kind of tease that isn’t just available to and used by the Bretons.

I also have a transcription of THIS TUNE that is built from 6/4, 5/4 & 7/4 bars…

Laridé à Six Temps ~ AGAIN! :-/

The following is based on one of those mixed bar / meter transcriptions, but trying to use the basic tune given here. The sad tendency of those of use raised on a certain thing, is to try to make other things meet our expectations of them. The sadness is wayt we miss in trying to force the unexpected into our expectations. Sometimes it is best to just let go and let a thing do what it will, without too much interference on our part, or on the part of our expectations, don’t yuh think? :-/