It was just a month ago when Ald. Samba Baldeh, who is black, leaned over his microphone in the Madison City Council chamber and said that he didn’t feel safe with Madison Police Chief Mike Koval, who is white, sitting behind him with a gun during the meeting.

Koval, a few days earlier, had published a lengthy blog post, laced with sarcasm and frustration, chastising council members for considering spending $400,000 on a review of his department’s operations and accusing them of not supporting police. The tone of the chief’s post and his behavior at the June 7 council meeting drew widespread criticism from elected officials.

85 comments:

I guess the unspoken virtue of affirmative action, aside from the benefits that attend any political spoils system, is that compulsory interbreeding seems highly unworkable in practice so we'll all have to make do with compulsory association.

Maybe it's just my little slice of the world, but I see a good number of interracial couples.

Visited my sister and BIL in rural, western North Carolina last summer. Had breakfast at the local diner one morning. Sitting at the next table was a guy dressed in a shirt/tie with a Glock strapped to his side. BIL informs me he is the chief-of-police. Never felt so safe.

I differ slightly with him, in that good character is learned not inherited, and good character is the way out for blacks, the concealing of which fact is how the MSM and free-riding politicians keep blacks an underclass. Derb doesn't see the good character avenue.

When Obama visited Kenya, one of the papers I read mentioned the fact that 25% of the women in Kenya were rape victims. The paper further reported that most of the rapes were perpetrated by members of Kenya's security services.......The alderman is from Gambia. I don't know anything about the police there, but my guess is that their record is considerably worse than that of the Madison department and that the good alderman would never relate its failings to anything inherent in the character of the people who live there.

Good chacter however is taught and learned. There's the opportunity for blacks that mostly today explicitly rejected. Everybody moves easily around well socialized blacks; cops don't have that luxury. They see a different bunch.

"Race is intrinsic, pervasive and part of all our meaningful discussions in modern times, and I don’t think any group ... is going to find any respite from having to grapple with those difficult issues." As long as the issues can be exploited for purposes of spoils dividing and Prog power pursuit, yes. Otherwise, nothing is more boring and meaningless than discussions about race.

But, careful, chief: race is not intrinsic, it's socially constructed. Off to reeducation camp with you. Any non-science UW department will do.

The underlying genetics that expresses itself as racial indicators is itself intrinsic. But I doubt that there are very many "pure-bloods' around in any group. anywhere.

We've almost all mutts...

One of the ironies on current Black culture is that blacks have bought into that old racist trope of "one drop". Blacks now view any mix of black and other race as "black". And try to enroll that mixed race child in the black culture. Don't act white, etc. I wonder if that is a coping mechanism to being submerged by Latinos as the dominant minority in the USA.

It certainly has happened in California. It is a one party state and blacks have seen that they have lost most of their juice as browns now constitute the majority of the party.

Koval, a few days earlier, had published a lengthy blog post, laced with sarcasm and frustration, chastising council members for considering spending $400,000 on a review of his department’s operations and accusing them of not supporting police. The tone of the chief’s post and his behavior at the June 7 council meeting drew widespread criticism from elected officials.

Seemed to me that the elected official was being a racist.

Who are blacks going to blame for their problems when whites become a minority in this country?

They blame whites for Detroit, which blacks have run for decades.

And in all of the other cases I can think of, it is unclear at best and even doubtful at all, that any racial animus was an issue.

In the two most recent publicized shootings, weren't the cops in question non-white?

The state AG of Hawaii is suing drug companies because Plavix is less effective in people with certain genetic makeup.

Blacks are as varied as whites. We are all too quick to apply the race label to what are cultural issues. Yes, there are certain genetic influences but the degree of influence is as variable as the individuals themselves.

The genetics leads to comprehensive and fine grained social sorting based on economic roles, as described/predicted by Murray et al. The sorted populations create their own bubbles and tribal identities that add the level of general competence to everything else tribes use as identity markers.

Will lefties never stop watering down and degrading the language? Dumb question, I know. Lately we must add the word safe to the list of words that mean whatever the speaker, or the hearer as it may be, says they mean. Talk about no respite from carking difficulty.

Cops hate pulling over blacks they know are likely innocent. It's a hassle and they hate being accused racism. The cops hate it and the black motorist despise it. So, why do blacks get pulled over so much more than whites?

Young black males make up about 6% of the population and commit about 40% of the violent crime. A cop gets a call to respond to a violent crime and the description of the suspect is a young black male. He has to pull young black males over while there is a likelihood he is still in the area. Sorry, the cop didn't do the crime or make up the description--he is responding to both.

I am a 56 year old white male. I have been pulled over twice in the last two years. If you are a young black male and haven't been pulled over about 20 times in the past two years you are not getting your fair proportion of being pulled over. Sorry, it's numbers. It sucks to match the description of criminals. I can understand the frustration and anger, but if you're looking for the REASON, it's not that complicated. I know, it sucks.

I drive a Green Toyota Tundra. If 40% of the violent criminals drove from the crime scene in a Green Tundra, I'd be stopped most everyday.

Depends on which blacks or which whites you're talking about. American blacks and American whites? I dunno, but I wouldn't bet that the degree of genetic variation within each group was the same, because their genetic histories are so different.

Yes, I think I know what you're trying to say - that "they're not all the same", but who doesn't know that? Bromide. Strawman.

Of course we should judge each other as individuals - when circumstances permit knowing people as individuals. Most of the people we encounter in our lives we encounter briefly, will never know as individuals, and sometimes we have to make judgments and decisions about them based on patterns, aka stereotypes. And stereotypes aren't arbitrary and irrational.

We are all too quick to apply the race label to what are cultural issues.

On what planet? "It's cultural" is the default explanation for just about everybody who isn't in the "systemic racism" camp.

(Btw, do you think how "culture" develops is random and arbitrary, not at all linked to genetically determined behavioral traits within a population?)

Yes, there are certain genetic influences but the degree of influence is as variable as the individuals themselves.

The police are far more likely to shoot males than females. They are far more likely to arrest males, and males are far more likely to go to prison than females. The reason is that males are far more likely to commit crimes. It is true that there are people so well-educated they believe this discrepancy is "cultural", but the rest of us know that men are like that for genetic reasons. Our genes make us more aggressive, more prone to violence, and more likely to take risks, including breaking the law. These facts are evident to everyone outside of the Womens-Studies/Anthropology/Sociology axis of professorial evil, and we don't expect the situation to change any time soon. In particular, you will not see any young idiots wearing "Male Lives Matter" T-shirts, protesting the latest police shooting of some dirtbag criminal male.

@Angelyne: (Btw, do you think how "culture" develops is random and arbitrary, not at all linked to genetically determined behavioral traits within a population?)

LOL! Good grief! I took Cultural Anthropology in college, too. But I think genetic determinism will lead us down a dark alley. Murderers will be exonerated because they have a genetic predisposition to violence, etc. Utter bullshit! Genetics notwithstanding, we have control over our behavior if we choose to employ it.

Tom Wolfe - "Sorry, but your soul just died"Is genetic determinism likely to take us to a dark place, or have we always been there in the dark, but can't handle it? Perhaps we invent a fantasy of free will to avoid the truth. Or a lot of the truth.

Bias is intrinsic. Prejudice is nurtured. The mitigation of class diversity (e.g. racism) does not require development of hybrid humans but establishment of a suitable religious/moral philosophy that reconciles moral and natural imperatives. The State-establishment of a Pro-Choice (i.e. selective) Church has been detrimental to human rights, civil rights, and human relationships.

Buwaya, you and your cultural Calvinism! :-D While I see your point, I can clearly see where it leads and I don't buy it. Humans ARE responsible for their actions and behavior because we have the faculty to be. 'Genes made me do it' is as hollow an excuse as 'The Devil made me do it'. According to modern neuropsychiatry, we are even capable of changing our brain structures.

I'm so done with "systemic racism." My fb feed is full of White Knights saying that nothing will change unless we recognize blah blah blah.

Life is hard for everyone. Stop playing the Victim Olympics. I'm sorry some people might think ill of you because of the stereotypes out there. CHANGE THE STEREOTYPE by being DIFFERENT. "Systemic racism" as a catch all is just an excuse to wallow around helpless. And the people that utter it most are the ones who will never know poverty or the inner city. Idiots.

mockturtle: LOL! Good grief! I took Cultural Anthropology in college, too.

I don't get your LOLing. You can no doubt get cultural anthropologists to bloviate at length about the biological roots of human cultural universals. But cultural anthropology as a field isn't known for its curiosity about the biological roots of differences in cultures. You seem to be avoiding the question.

But I think genetic determinism will lead us down a dark alley.

Genes determine tendencies that are manifested in cultural forms or they don't. We don't get to choose whether that's true or not. I'm not talking about "genetic determinism" as an ideology.

Murderers will be exonerated because they have a genetic predisposition to violence, etc. Utter bullshit!

Believing that biology has something to do with why Japanese culture isn't like Italian culture means we have to let murderers go loose? Sure, whatever.

You really don't want to think about this stuff, do you? (And even if we discovered that all murderers really just can't stop themselves from killing people, regardless of external inputs (a cheap comic-book misreading of what "it's genetically influenced" people are saying, btw), it wouldn't follow that hanging them couldn't be the best way of dealing with them. Under that hypothetical, yes, a lot of people would have to rethink their views of morality - but facts would still be facts. Sorry.)

Genetics notwithstanding, we have control over our behavior if we choose to employ it.

I have identified two moral imperatives: individual dignity and intrinsic value. Both are an article of faith that must be upheld by choice. Natural imperatives are independent of human causality. For example, fitness is simply a perpetual process (e.g. human life, humanity) and while principles of morality do not strictly determine it, humans do exercise a degree of causality, and can, on a limited scale (e.g. scientific domain) influence its evolution (i.e. chaotic process). The essential difference between moral and natural imperatives is the difference between quality and quantity, respectively.

That's a real possibility. However, as observers inside the system we are observing, is it possible for us to use science, philosophy, or perhaps extra-sensory perception to make that assessment?

I have identified at least four [intersecting] logical domains: scientific, philosophical, fantasy, and faith. For all practical purposes, we exist and live most of our lives in the scientific domain with irregular (but integrated) contact with the other domains. The scientific domain is that little sliver of logic that can be observed in a limited frame of reference with diminishing accuracy as we approach the limits of natural and enhanced perception to resolve our observations in the presence of known, unknown, and unknowable influences.

I agree with what Birches wrote upthread. If Black people don't want to be stereotyped as violent and engaging in criminal behavior, then stop the violence, stop the criminal behavior. Don't expect me to figure out whether you're an honest and upstanding citizen or a thug -- I don't read minds. If a person slouching towards me looks like a thug and walks with that slouching stride that announced thug behavior, I'm going to assume he's a thug. He might be the CEO of a multi-billion corporation, but that is not the way to bet.

mockturtle: I'm not avoiding the question. You are avoiding the obvious value [genetic, cultural, moral or spiritual] of personal responsibility.

If by "avoiding", you mean "not even talking about in the first place", then yeah, I guess I am.

Mock, if you're not interested in discussing the points I brought up, and are more interested in discussing the "obvious value of personal responsibility" and displaying your deeply thought-out views on "genetic determinism", that's fine, but it's not the conversation I'm interested in at the moment.

Look, I believe in IQ. I believe in racial differences in IQ. (They're undeniable really) But the problem isn't that Black people are stupid. The problem is, the majority of Black people are ignorant, largely because of the shitty schools they get sent to. (run by minorities and Democrats by the way)

Take my best friend. (He's Black, I am White) He's a college educated professional, has raised three terrific kids, and is loved by everyone who know him. But he has never read a single work by Shakespeare. Once we were hanging out in the staff lounge, and there was this big book that was a kind of encyclopedia of Western Civilization. My friend opened it up to a random page and asked. "What was the 'blood, sweat and tears' speech". I gave him an answer about Churchill and the Battle of Britain in WW II and he was amazed. I was amazed that he was amazed. Next he asked about the Vestal Virgins, and again he couldn't believe I knew what they were. This went on for close to an hour. He left amazed at my knowledge, I left amazed at his ignorance. I read at least 100 books a year. He hasn't read a book in years. The idea of reading for pleasure, or the acquisition of knowledge, is foreign to him.

Gahrie: But he has never read a single work by Shakespeare. Once we were hanging out in the staff lounge, and there was this big book that was a kind of encyclopedia of Western Civilization. My friend opened it up to a random page and asked. "What was the 'blood, sweat and tears' speech". I gave him an answer about Churchill and the Battle of Britain in WW II and he was amazed. I was amazed that he was amazed. Next he asked about the Vestal Virgins, and again he couldn't believe I knew what they were. This went on for close to an hour. He left amazed at my knowledge, I left amazed at his ignorance.

I know plenty of white people like this, and not just young whippersnappers, either. I mean people in their forties or fifties.

All of the above counted as common knowledge for my never-went-to-college parents (and they'd be alarmed if I drew a blank on any of it, once I got to high-school age). Now, people think you're erudite for knowing what my poor, slum-dwelling Dad was expected to know before he left high-school.

"I know plenty of white people like this, and not just young whippersnappers, either. I mean people in their forties or fifties."

Definitely. Prior to television, people used to read. A lot. I always marvel when I come across one of the WWII Armed Forces editions of a classic piece of literature. Unimaginable now to think of a 19 year-old working class guy enjoying Bleak House in his leisure time. Don't think it's a race thing.

Look when my brother and cousins were teenagers they got hassled a lot by cops. Why? They looked like cholos on skateboards. Some of my white male friends have a deep aversion to the police as well. They were all skateboarders as teenagers. Stereotypes don't just affect black people.

mockturtle said...Humans ARE responsible for their actions and behavior because we have the faculty to be.

Unless they have schizophrenia, manic-depression, and ... what else?

'Genes made me do it' is as hollow an excuse as 'The Devil made me do it'.

One big difference is that genes exist.

Hold your hand in a candle flame without reacting. Genes will make you fail to control your behavior. A very simple behavior.

According to modern neuropsychiatry, we are even capable of changing our brain structures.

Everything you do changes your brain, but genes limit how much it can change: no way to get significantly smarter; no way to make significant changes in your personality. Non-trivial neuroplasticity is due to normal aging or brain injuries.

Reading this sentence changed your brain. You'll probably remember reading it two seconds, or five seconds later, but not two weeks or two years later. Cuzza genes.

60 years ago, I was stationed in Augsburg with the 5th Div. and everybody pretty much got along on the idea that we were all in this soup together. Then the geniuses in Washington thought up "Operation Gyroscope" on the idea that it would be more efficient to rotate the troops by their divisions, a battalion at a time. Those of us who had more than six months to go were distributed to other units around West Germany.I and some others from my company wound up in Frankfurt. One day I was coming back to our barracks with some of them, and entering passed by one of our Black guys coming out with some Black guys I did not know. I said: "Hi Jim!" in passing, and he turned around, grabbed me by the throat, and pressed me up against the wall while giving me a bunch of stuff like "@#$%^&*!!!," etc., and then let me go and walked out with his friends.I was completely non-plussed and said: "What the hell was all that about? What got into Jim?" and my friends laughed and said: "Jim just had to show off for his new friends from St. Louis. Just let it go and don't pay attention to it; it's not serious."

But it is heaven for the educationists. They could now build huge central schools with highly paid administrators who do not have to reach, and all kinds of specialist advisers, and facilities for running all kinds of programs they had dreamed of like forever.

But a 3,000 pupil school is a hell of an environment for a grade schooler.

The idea of systemic racism, as endorsed by Hillary and apparently Newt, is a great thing for liberals. It allows them undermine all of these American ideals:-Freedom of speech-Freedom to bear arms-Local rule and federalism-Due process-Equality under the law-One person, one vote-Freedom of association-Consent of the governed

There are probably others. For example, if your local property taxes pay for schools and police who are directed by unelected bureaucrats, you have taxation without representation.

One of the lesser known Coen brothers movies is "A Serious Man." It is about a Jewish high school physics teacher who is having a spiritual crisis. His rabbi can't really help him, so he goes up the ladder to higher and higher rabbis, presumably because they will be more able to help him. What the physics teacher discovers is that as the rabbis become more spiritual, closer to God and the heart of Judaism, they become more incomprehensible. He can't understand them, and he is not sure that they can understand him.If an average Joe with a kid in public schools could somehow work his way up the hierarchy of educational establishment, I think that he would find the same thing happening. He simply wants his kids to be taught well, so they can be successful, well-integrated members of society. As he interviewed higher and higher functionaries he would find their language more filled with jargon and that they were less able to communicate with him. Eventually he would discover that making his children successful, well-integrated members of society isn't a priority to the highest of the high at all, or that their definition of a successful, well-integrated members of society is entirely alien to his definition.

Terry, you are wrong there, on what they are thinking. You are right about the jargon, but with a bit of practice its not difficult to penetrate. Educatipn, as a field, is not as deep as Jewish religious philosophy. The highest levels of educational thinking are perfectly aware of what average Joe wants. They are, most of them, simply opposed to average Joe, and say so at every opportunity, in their own language of course.

My black dental hygienist has a white husband and she tells me she gets hate stares from black women when she is out with her husband. This is in Irvine, CA an upper middle class suburb. No welfare cases there.