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Stranger In The Crowd (master error)

Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:05 pm

Master error is probably not the right word but It has bugged me a little for years that Elvisvoice is "cracking" at the word "found" at approx 2:58 on master take.I never noticed this on TTWII vinyl when I got it in the early 80s but it is very noticable on cd.Maybe this is a rare excample of improved sound over the years isnt always a good thing Dont know if Ernst and BMG has tried to fix it but its probably very hard to do anything about it

(Same goes for the talking in background on " Mary In the Morning" Master as well)

Last edited by KingElvis on Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Stranger In The Crowd (Master Error)

Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:20 pm

KingElvis wrote:...(Same goes for the talking in background on " Mary In the Morning" Master as well)

Try as I might, I've never heard that.

I don't use headphones.

At which point does it occur & what is said ?

Re: Stranger In The Crowd (Master Error)

Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:22 pm

I remember it now , just put on the TTWII Special edition cd and it does it there

Re: Stranger In The Crowd (Master Error)

Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:38 pm

ColinB wrote:

KingElvis wrote:...(Same goes for the talking in background on " Mary In the Morning" Master as well)

Try as I might, I've never heard that.

I don't use headphones.

At which point does it occur & what is said ?

It's quite easy to hear (and I think Ernst has discussed it) - off hand I'd say it's probably in the instrumental passage, nearer to the end than the beginning, it's just mumbled studio/console chat.

Sorry, but I'm not near the CD at the moment.

Re: Stranger In The Crowd (Master Error)

Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:48 pm

George Smith wrote:

ColinB wrote:

KingElvis wrote:...(Same goes for the talking in background on " Mary In the Morning" Master as well)

Try as I might, I've never heard that.

I don't use headphones.

At which point does it occur & what is said ?

It's quite easy to hear (and I think Ernst has discussed it) - off hand I'd say it's probably in the instrumental passage, nearer to the end than the beginning, it's just mumbled studio/console chat.

Sorry, but I'm not near the CD at the moment.

There is one release that has the talking almost gone....think it was the TTWII SHM one,need to check.Ernst talked about this many years ago in one of the MAHM magazines.I find the issue with stranger in the crowd more annoying.

Re: Stranger In The Crowd (Master Error)

Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:29 pm

I think theres some noise also on the intro of the I LOST YOU master, heard it more on the new masters ........

Re: Stranger In The Crowd (Master Error)

Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:01 am

In the 1970's, Elvis was less a perfectionist than he was in the 1950's and 60's. There's quite a few voice cracks on the 1970's songs. Is this one the only one that bugs you?

Re: Stranger In The Crowd (Master Error)

Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:06 am

stevelecher wrote:In the 1970's, Elvis was less a perfectionist than he was in the 1950's and 60's. There's quite a few voice cracks on the 1970's songs. Is this one the only one that bugs you?

Its the only one that comes to mind at the moment since I have played TTWII cd a lot recently.

Re: Stranger In The Crowd (Master Error)

Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:52 am

Well, since we're on the subject of errors...

In the extended, 'extra verse' movie version of "One Broken Heart For Sale" it has always bugged me that Elvis sings, "She would not listen to the things my heart were saying"...Elvis should've sang, "She would not listen to the things my heart was saying".

Elvis' mistake should've been noticed by those in charge of the recording session.It makes me wonder if they were asleep in the control room (not to pick up on that) or just illiterate!

Re: Stranger In The Crowd (Master Error)

Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:16 am

Sometimes a performance is considerably more important than perfection. It was probably the case that Elvis thought he was never going to improve on the performance itself, even if he sang it perfectly. Elvis's recordings are often about capturing the moment and the feeling of that moment. A cracked note can't take away from a brilliant performance.

There is a well-known example on Sinatra's Strangers In The Night LP. Sinatra fluffs a lyric on Yessir That's My Baby, but chose that take over the earlier and later ones, and chose not to do a cut-in/workpart. He thought it didn't distract from the performance itself, which he felt he couldn't better. Ella Fitzgerald's later albums for Pablo are full of such mistakes, but it doesn't detract from the listening pleasure.

Re: Stranger In The Crowd (Master Error)

Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:24 am

I agree, Peter, although the usual procedure would be to keep the take but just rerecord that part of the song again, and editing in the replacement line. "Rags To Riches" comes to mind, and Elvis' overemphasis on the word "kiss" when cutting the replacement line. But then again "...hold me and curse me" couldn't be left as it was.

Re: Stranger In The Crowd (Master Error)

Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:42 am

poormadpeter wrote:Sometimes a performance is considerably more important than perfection. It was probably the case that Elvis thought he was never going to improve on the performance itself, even if he sang it perfectly.

Case in point: Promised Land. Elvis fluffs the lyric prior to the 2nd guitar break: "tell the folks back home this is the promised land clost and the poor boy's on the line." He gets it on the final verse: "tell the folks back home this is the promised land calling and the poor boy's on the line."

Could they have done another take as well as the master?

Re: Stranger In The Crowd (Master Error)

Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:50 am

Matthew wrote:

poormadpeter wrote:Sometimes a performance is considerably more important than perfection. It was probably the case that Elvis thought he was never going to improve on the performance itself, even if he sang it perfectly.

Case in point: Promised Land. Elvis fluffs the lyric prior to the 2nd guitar break: "tell the folks back home this is the promised land clost and the poor boy's on the line." He gets it on the final verse: "tell the folks back home this is the promised land calling and the poor boy's on the line."

Could they have done another take as well as the master?

Probably not. With someone like Elvis, once the moment has passed, that's it.

Dannyboy, as for the cutting in issue, the Rags to Riches example shows that the results can suck. Similarly, Sinatra did a cut-in for the last note of These Foolish Things on Point of No Return LP, and the fact he did so is obvious - it is so bad, that there are rumours that someone else did the last note retake for him!

Re: Stranger In The Crowd (Master Error)

Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:17 pm

KingElvis wrote:Master error is probably not the right word but It has bugged me a little for years that Elvisvoice is "cracking" at the word "found" at approx 2:58 on master take.I never noticed this on TTWII vinyl when I got it in the early 80s but it is very noticable on cd.Maybe this is a rare excample of improved sound over the years isnt always a good thing Dont know if Ernst and BMG has tried to fix it but its probably very hard to do anything about it

(Same goes for the talking in background on " Mary In the Morning" Master as well)

Lets just keep crappy sound so we won't notice these things.

Re: Stranger In The Crowd (Master Error)

Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:44 pm

promiseland wrote:

KingElvis wrote:Master error is probably not the right word but It has bugged me a little for years that Elvisvoice is "cracking" at the word "found" at approx 2:58 on master take.I never noticed this on TTWII vinyl when I got it in the early 80s but it is very noticable on cd.Maybe this is a rare excample of improved sound over the years isnt always a good thing Dont know if Ernst and BMG has tried to fix it but its probably very hard to do anything about it

(Same goes for the talking in background on " Mary In the Morning" Master as well)

Lets just keep crappy sound so we won't notice these things.

Bring back Lene Reidel!!

Re: Stranger In The Crowd (Master Error)

Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:48 pm

Unlike today when u can cut perfect takes so easily because its digital u can just redo single words, in those days all u could really do was splice at best, or keep doing the song over, it would be good to hear a song with new instrumentals and the best of all the takes on one song, just to get a perfect version [well almost]

Re: Stranger In The Crowd (Master Error)

Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:52 pm

I just checked the master version on the FTD release sounds perfect to me at 2:58 The 3CD TTWII Box also is without flaws. I might ask what to listen for, is something that appears when listening to headphonesor speakers?Mary In The Morning has some damage at 0:48 I belive they easily could repair that, but it is the first time I ever noticed that, does this also appears on the original vinyl? I don't have a vinyl copy anymore so I can't check out.

I Belive that from now on I always going to hear that flaw when playing MITM, man you ruined that song forme..

Re: Stranger In The Crowd (Master Error)

Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:04 pm

Reminds me of EP's lack of breath control furing the All Shook Up master - it comes across nicely.We could now start a thread on EP's tongue twists, which happened all the time too,

Re: Stranger In The Crowd (Master Error)

Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:50 pm

blue boy wrote:I just checked the master version on the FTD release sounds perfect to me at 2:58 The 3CD TTWII Box also is without flaws. I might ask what to listen for, is something that appears when listening to headphonesor speakers?

I hear it on both FTD and the TTWII Box from 2000 but it is easier to hear on FTD as elvis voice is more upfront in the mix.And its easier to hear it using headphones but I hear it through speakers as well.

It reminds me a little of the "break" in Elvis voice at the very end of "An American Trilogy" 09/04-72 performance.....first released on "This Is Elvis" soundtrack.

Re: Stranger In The Crowd (Master Error)

Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:29 pm

I hear it on the TWII Box and the 70's box. I just checked the Mobile Fidelity Gold Disc and I hear it there as well.

Re: Stranger In The Crowd (Master Error)

Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:25 pm

Well I have to check it out again. Did you guys listen to the very long flaw on MITM at ca 0:48 that is clearly "hearable" and that should be very easy to repair, I have it on both TTWII SE and FTD.

Re: Stranger In The Crowd (Master Error)

Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:46 pm

Blue River wrote:Well, since we're on the subject of errors...

In the extended, 'extra verse' movie version of "One Broken Heart For Sale" it has always bugged me that Elvis sings, "She would not listen to the things my heart were saying"...Elvis should've sang, "She would not listen to the things my heart was saying".

Elvis' mistake should've been noticed by those in charge of the recording session.It makes me wonder if they were asleep in the control room (not to pick up on that) or just illiterate!

Maybe that is why the shorter take 5 was chosen for the single and the LP over the extended version take 1.

Re: Stranger In The Crowd (Master Error)

Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:01 pm

blue boy wrote:Well I have to check it out again. Did you guys listen to the very long flaw on MITM at ca 0:48 that is clearly "hearable" and that should be very easy to repair, I have it on both TTWII SE and FTD.

Gave the SHM version of TTWII a spin as this is the one I have on my mp3 player.Didnt hear anything......ca 0:48 you say......just after Elvis sings "her golden hair" ??

Mike C wrote:

Blue River wrote:Well, since we're on the subject of errors...

In the extended, 'extra verse' movie version of "One Broken Heart For Sale" it has always bugged me that Elvis sings, "She would not listen to the things my heart were saying"...Elvis should've sang, "She would not listen to the things my heart was saying".

Elvis' mistake should've been noticed by those in charge of the recording session.It makes me wonder if they were asleep in the control room (not to pick up on that) or just illiterate!

Maybe that is why the shorter take 5 was chosen for the single and the LP over the extended version take 1.

Maybe the recording session was full of "yes men" and they didnt dare say anything........

Re: Stranger In The Crowd (Master Error)

Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:41 am

anybody ever listen to the original lp to tell if the error was in mitm?

Re: Stranger In The Crowd (Master Error)

Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:21 am

ritchie valens wrote:anybody ever listen to the original lp to tell if the error was in mitm?

Same for Stranger in the Crowd, I want to know if it was on the LP as well. The Mary in the Morning talking is also on the Mobile Fidelity Gold Disk. It's quite audible and I always wondered why they didn't remove it since this was an 'audiophile' recording. It might be embedded in a mix-down of tracks within the multi-tracks.