Really? So you're going to discount all if those guys because they might have had a great run game or defense? That makes no sense. Did u know that Brady's WRs in his first SBs were Troy Brown, Givens and Branch? RB were Antwain Smith and the other Faulk. Again, look at the list. All time greats and guys on their way. In your world Roger Staubach and a host if others are overrated for their work because they had great teams. How about they elevated their teams? The OP us taking one instance and making a sweeping untrue generalization to prop up our situation.

There is a reason for the Colts being 20 times better this year...Luck over Painter

I didn't discount any of those guys or say they were overrated. Staubach in particular I think is underrated.

If you look at the team ranks for the patriots during their Superbowl years they are as follows.

Tom Brady definitely had some help on those squad. The guys that win without the defense or rushing touchdowns are as much an anomaly as the Trent Dilfer types.

The point of this is not to turn this into another Superbowl wins versus numbers type threads or something. The point is unless we address these areas going forward we don't have a realistic chance to win a championship no matter who the QB is.

No QB can win a SB with the TO differential and lack of a running game and pass protection that Tony suffered this year. It's unbelievable how much blame this guy gets.

I am not seeing anyone blaming him in this thread. In fact, like I've said, I'm a fan of what he's done with the oline, etc. What I don't like are excuses for why he hasn't won. Like Comparing him to other guys who have done a lot more but choked once or saying the Defense and Running Game is the reason teams win SBs while discounting Quarterbacks over the decades. Those excuses are poorly played. I also am objective and Romo has buried himself at times. Great stats with a 10 cent brain at times. These are facts. But I don't blame whole seasons on him. I blame a lack of organizational awareness.

And Romo choked against the 30th ranked pass defense and buried his teams chances for the playoffs.

It shouldn't be ignored that we let up a 200 yard rusher in that game, and that teams are 118-9 all time when they have a rusher go for 200 yards. Romo certainly didn't help our cause, but our defense didn't either.

I am not seeing anyone blaming him in this thread. In fact, like I've said, I'm a fan of what he's done with the oline, etc. What I don't like are excuses for why he hasn't won. Like Comparing him to other guys who have done a lot more but choked once or saying the Defense and Running Game is the reason teams win SBs while discounting Quarterbacks over the decades. Those excuses are poorly played. I also am objective and Romo has buried himself at times. Great stats with a 10 cent brain at times. These are facts. But I don't blame whole seasons on him. I blame a lack of organizational awareness.

I'm not saying you are, or anyone in particular is (I was making a general comment), but let's be realistic here. The best shot Tony ever had of winning a SB was in 2007 when we were the #1 seed, and we lost to a team that was on fire and eventually won the SB, a team that shut down one of only two teams in NFL history that had an opportunity to go undefeated. After that, it's been downhill team wise. That's a reflection more of management than the QB.

It shouldn't be ignored that we let up a 200 yard rusher in that game, and that teams are 118-9 all time when they have a rusher go for 200 yards. Romo certainly didn't help our cause, but our defense didn't either.

The defense gave Romo the ball back with 3:25 and 3 timeouts only down 3 points DESPITE Romo's earlier 2 int's. Romo is 100% to blame for that loss.

I'm not saying you are, or anyone in particular is (I was making a general comment), but let's be realistic here. The best shot Tony ever had of winning a SB was in 2007 when we were the #1 seed, and we lost to a team that was on fire and eventually won the SB, a team that shut down one of only two teams in NFL history that had an opportunity to go undefeated. After that, it's been downhill team wise. That's a reflection more of management than the QB.

Agree completely. Again, you can't have 16-17 years of this stuff without a lack of organizational awareness, control and direction. When it comes to things like Romo I've always found it to be hard to be one way or another. I know he isn't supposed to carry a team and he does well despite the O-line BUT he also digs his own grave with boneheaded mistakes. So trying to cover with "other chokers" or "needs more for the SB" just rubs me the wrong way. I try to be a fan but see his game from more the outside in. But he doesn't get he help either so what do you do?

Yep, and why did he make that mistake? Had no running game to pound the ball down the field. And the defense knew it. So all they had to do was tee off on Romo. Romo knowing if he doenst make the play on his own, they lose. So he is pressing. Rusher comes nearly unblocked straight up the middle in Romo's face as he throws the pass off his back foot for the pick.

And I like how you said Harris put us in position. LOL Romo threw two clutch passes. One on the TD and the other on the 2 point converstion.

And after the pick, the defense holds to a FG and hatcher jumps off sides thus giving Romo no other shot. needless to say, Romo should never have thrown that pick.

If Romo has a nice clean pocket, or has the ability to hand the ball off for 6 yards, that pick probably never happens. Just sayin.

You're CBR from AbsoluteCowboys, right?

If he has a clean pocket and the ability to hand the ball off for 6 yards, then what's the point? Some of the worst QBs in the league could win with that kind of support. How much help does Romo need?

And how realistic is that? How often does that happen? It's not impossible for a team to overcome their average QBs (Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, who else?), but parity is prevalent and building a team of that caliber isn't common.

On top of that, those guys didn't have the same knack for making the detrimental mistakes that Romo does. And that's Romo's biggest problem. And because it's his biggest problem, it's quite possibly the biggest problem with the team.

That's not to say that I think the team is being held back by him at the moment. That's not true; we're just not that good right now. But if the team was a competitor I don't think we could go very far with Romo.

Because, no matter how good the team, Romo is going to eventually face adversity. It's going to happen in this parity filled league.

And to me nothing that he has done in his career indicates that he can overcome that his own internal issues.

Again, I'm not saying its impossible that it'll just click with him and those issues will go away. I'm just tired of wasting time waiting... hoping that it will happen.

I think it's a myth that Romo makes the "boneheaded" mistake anymore than other QBs. I think this has been drilled in by the media who has its fair share of Cowboy haters creating the image that he's a gunslinger with the Favre comparison, and started with the the 2006 playoff game in Seattle, which wasn't even a QB mistake per se.

If someone can show me how his mistakes are more "boneheaded" than other QBs, I'll gladly accept it as so.

I think it's a myth that Romo makes the "boneheaded" mistake anymore than other QBs. I think this has been drilled in by the media who has its fair share of Cowboy haters creating the image that he's a gunslinger with the Favre comparison, and started with the the 2006 playoff game in Seattle, which wasn't even a QB mistake per se.

If someone can show me how his mistakes are more "boneheaded" than other QBs, I'll gladly accept it as so.

For the record, I don't consider Romo a 'gunslinger'. He tries his best not to make mistakes. Really, it's not the number of mistakes but the severity.

I'll take on that challenge... work's pretty slow today.

I used to have the same notion that you do; that his mistakes are 'overblown'. But understand that the mistakes I'll be using will be during big games, which I will clearly define.

I'd love to prove myself wrong because while I consider myself a Romo basher, I don't consider myself a Romo hater. I like the guy a lot, and it would be so ridiculously amazing to win it all with him at the helm...

You know how you know you've written a great post, when Romo haters tell you to close the thread. :laugh2:

Everybody was just as mad, just as disappointed and just as exhausted after the Washington game when it comes to Romo. He looked shaky, threw off his back foot and was not the same player as the previous six weeks. You would be lying if you didn't see it.

Yesterday in the Pats/Ravens game Brady took a seven step drop and the Ravens safety blitzed. He was going full bore and I thought he was going to kill Brady, then out of nowhere a guard picked up the blitz at the last moment and Brady threw a strike. For me it was almost a revelation to see that happen because that's what we needed on the Romo's last pick in Washington on the blitz. I'm not excusing the throw, but somebody else needed to do their job and they didn't.

I think Romo wouldn't taken us down the field and scored. He had the Redskinns defense on the ropes but one missed assignment on one crucial play resulted in Romo not doing his job and THAT is why it's the ultimate team game.

Good summary. Brady normally has a 5 yard cushion, and very good protection on blitzes. He then surveys where he wants to throw, and increases his chances for a completion.

Contrast that to running for your life, and throwing with the hope that it will be a competition