Having 100 people employed at $5/hr is inherently better for the economy than having 50 people employed at $10/hr.

No this is not true and if you look at the history of the united states you see that when workers were much better paid and much better educated (relative to the times of course) the united states did well. In fact when workers had little in wages, it was called the guilded society and ended with the crash of 1929.

The hammer comes down:

Originally Posted by Osmeric

Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

if layoff need to happen, they'll happen, thats just how businesses are and i think most people understand that BUT

this whole thing where companies are laying people off just a few days after the election? its just a political stunt because they're bottom-pained that their candidate of choice didn't win, geez louise guys everything didn't change so fast that you needed to fire a ton of people right away, we see through your lies!

As for layoffs or increasing prices, Millionaires or million dollar companies are gonna do what they need to do to keep things the same. If more money has to come out of their pocket to pay for health care then they are going to get rid of positions they can do without to make up for it or raise prices to make up for it.

If America wants Obama's health care then some people are gonna have to pay the price of a national healthcare system.

imo why would you wanna live longer anyway? Things are so much better when you dont exist, life sucks.

Not sure what system the USA government is emulating with their healthcare plan, but in Canada, we pay higher income tax. I'm sure business is taxed a little higher too though. But it's not the same across each province. Alberta's government takes a cut of the revenues from the oil industry to help pay for costs for example.

In any case, universal health care is amazing. I couldn't imagine what it would be like to worry about doing things like playing sports, or just about any physical activity while worrying that I am going to get hurt and end up being down thousands of dollars so a doctor can fix me up. Or just worrying about any health problem for that matter which can cause some serious financial problems (like say, a burst appendix).

The reasoning for the layoffs in this case is just a cop out. Those workers were going to get the axe anyway, these companies just decided to put the blame on Obama's re-election in order to deflect some arrows.

I mean the position you people are advocating is BABARISM. I cannot stress that enough. It replaces the use of force as a means of control and domination with the accumulation of money. It's Barbaric.

The hammer comes down:

Originally Posted by Osmeric

Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

Not sure what system the USA government is emulating with their healthcare plan, but in Canada, we pay higher income tax. I'm sure business is taxed a little higher too though. But it's not the same across each province. Alberta's government takes a cut of the revenues from the oil industry to help pay for costs for example.

They're emulating the system that...get this...Romney introduced in Massachusetts.

Not sure what system the USA government is emulating with their healthcare plan, but in Canada, we pay higher income tax. I'm sure business is taxed a little higher too though. But it's not the same across each province. Alberta's government takes a cut of the revenues from the oil industry to help pay for costs for example.

In any case, universal health care is amazing. I couldn't imagine what it would be like to worry about doing things like playing sports, or just about any physical activity while worrying that I am going to get hurt and end up being down thousands of dollars so a doctor can fix me up. Or just worrying about any health problem for that matter which can cause some serious financial problems (like say, a burst appendix).

The reasoning for the layoffs in this case is just a cop out. Those workers were going to get the axe anyway, these companies just decided to put the blame on Obama's re-election in order to deflect some arrows.

As a fellow Canadian I can say he's got it right. I don't have to worry if I'm sick. If my kids are sick or if my loved ones are. We are also not a dictatorship or a fascist society because of it. We came together as a nation in the 70s and said we have a value called solidarity and were going to have governmental systems that reflect this. We care about one and other. In the US I think it's true to, and I think Hurricane Sandy proved this value exists in people but a handful of the vile masters of mankind have decided that they must have "all for themselves and nothing for other people" in the words of Adam Smith.

The hammer comes down:

Originally Posted by Osmeric

Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

Why doesn't the CEO just take a smaller piece of the pie, which still ends up being an incredibly huge piece of pie. Wouldn't that be a smart business decision?

I think that there is a pervasive myth that CEOs take massive portions of their company's profits.

According to Businessweek, the CEO of Papa John's earn $2.3 million a year. So let's say he took a 50% pay cut. How many employees could he keep? Even if we just counted their salaries, that's maybe 20 employees. If we factor all of the costs of employing somebody, it's probably more like 4 or 5. If he took a 100% pay cut, he might be able to keep 10. Maybe. Well, I guess it'd be 9, seeing as he would no longer have his own job.

People are boycotting companies like this because of what reason?? business??

Newsflash, this is just the beginning and it's going to happen when obamacare forces companies to adapt to this new thing.

You can't be mad for companies wanting to make profits, that's how business works. you vote for obamacare, expect the shitstorm to be happening.

I think we are mad because companies are trying to beat inflation and the cost of doing business by taking it out on the little guy, instead of understanding that they may have to pay a little more or make a little less money. When things get more expensive for me personally I dont have the option of passing the buck down the road to my employees to maintain my same lifestyle. I mean I guess I could take away my children's healthcare to protect my bottom line. When times are tough they should be tough for everyone, not just the blue collar workers. I believe CEO's and executives should take pay cuts as readily as the workers do. A CEO pay cut could save quite a few jobs, but of course they dont care about their employees, only themselves and the bottom line. This is the exact reason I dont understand why people think letting big business and the banks regulate themselves make sense. Cutting jobs due to lack of consumer demand is one thing (that makes sense). But cutting jobs to protect the bottom line, when those jobs still need to be done, thats just heartless, asshole greed. Most often they cut the job and then make someone else do it for little to no additional pay. The system has failed. Also, nothing has changed from the day before the election to the day after, so all this is just scapegoating. Again, corporations being giant pussies and not wanting to to take responsibility for their own heartless actions. Papa Johns; I will get my pizza elsewhere. Maybe you (Papa Johns) could stop spending so much money on advertising and shitty commercials that feature your heartless CEO and some millionaire quarterback trying to personally sell me your shit pizza, and put that money into paying for healthcare for your employees.

I think that there is a pervasive myth that CEOs take massive portions of their company's profits.

According to Businessweek, the CEO of Papa John's earn $2.3 million a year. So let's say he took a 50% pay cut. How many employees could he keep? Even if we just counted their salaries, that's maybe 20 employees. If we factor all of the costs of employing somebody, it's probably more like 4 or 5. If he took a 100% pay cut, he might be able to keep 10. Maybe. Well, I guess it'd be 9, seeing as he would no longer have his own job.

Earned 2.3 million in salary, did it count bonuses and perks? Alot of their pay isn't from direct wages but from bonuses, perks, stock options all sorts of schemes to make a buck and not have it on record.

---------- Post added 2012-11-10 at 05:12 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Grummgug

I don't know you get "capitalism is dying" from any of that.

When unemployment is high, its extremely difficult for workers to demand both increased compensation and jobs in an of itself (a sudden surge in demand for American-made goods notwithstanding).

Indeed. The excess army of reserve labor is so massive now that any wage demands are likely to be stifled. That's the biggest reason unemployment will stay high and never drop to anything remotely acceptable for a civilized society. If you don't have 10 guys chomping at the bit for your job your more likely to demand things like wages and healthcare and then your more likely to affect political change in favor of the masses and not of the ceos.

The hammer comes down:

Originally Posted by Osmeric

Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

A lot of large corporations are against obama. They'd rather have a republican candidate because its better for them.
It's common knowledge that republicans are for bigger business and democrats are for bigger government.
As far as which is better or worse, that's your opinion. I don't care much for either party.

I've seen a few CEO's say the same thing, if obama gets re-elected they would have to lay off people.
Employees are dispensable to them, their profit is not.

A liberal president might mean higher corporate taxes, obamacare, etc etc
To keep making the same amount of money, they will just layoff employees and make the rest pick up the slack.

Originally Posted by Didactic

To whoever said that Dominos is better than Papa John's: I concur.

I've worked at both and I think Dominos is better. Papa Johns thin crust is better though.

Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

A lot of large corporations are against obama. They'd rather have a republican candidate because its better for them.
It's common knowledge that republicans are for bigger business and democrats are for bigger government.
As far as which is better or worse, that's your opinion. I don't care much for either party.

I've seen a few CEO's say the same thing, if obama gets re-elected they would have to lay off people.
Employees are dispensable to them, their profit is not.

A liberal president might mean higher corporate taxes, obamacare, etc etc
To keep making the same amount of money, they will just layoff employees and make the rest pick up the slack.

I've worked at both and I think Dominos is better. Papa Johns thin crust is better though.

Actually the reality of this is that both parties represent business interests. Obama or Romney. The united states has a one party system just with two factions who vie for the love and affection of those business. You think Romney and the republicans aren't in favor of bigger government? What do you call the patriot act and military build up? What do you call reckless defense spending? You think Obama isn't in favor of big business? His administration hasn't prosecuted a SINGLE FUCKING BANKER for their criminal behavior.

The hammer comes down:

Originally Posted by Osmeric

Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.