Garchomp

To be honest,I don't think Choice Scarf chomp to be all that prominent.Choice Scarf Terrakion,Scarf Moxie Mence and Scarf Landorus are pokes which have significant advantage over chomp in their role.

Scarf terrakion is probably Scarf chomp's biggest rival.108 base speed means that Terrakion can outspeed neutral speed chloro abusers and speed tie with Scarf Keldeo and can easily switch into genesect especially with sand up,things garchomp can't.just like chomp terrakion boasts of perfect STAB coverage and mons that resist them are rare sight in OU.While Chomp's STAB resists Skarmory is a common sight in defensive teams,Bronzong too is rising in usage for Torn-T and Sheer Force Landorus.While you may behold imperfect accuracy of stone edge,scarf terrak has Rock slide for more accuracy and can use EQ or X-Scissor to hit things like Tentacruel and Latios for SE damage.Also,in response of stone edge's shaky accuracy Garchomp's strongest STAB outrage locks it in and make its exposed to revenge killing.Garchomp may have more bulk and ability to take Mach and Bullet Punch,but a weakness to ice shard as well as the presence of a 4x weakness hinders this asset.Terrakion can even have more Bulk on average if it's used in Sand with that 50% spdef boost.

When using chomp on suspect ladder,I found the SD yache set to be it's most effective set.Especially with that huge bulk.Even then thinking chomp to be game breaking is silly imo

Another Garchomp set not mentioned here is Sub+3 Attacks.A lot of players used it in quite effectively in DW OU,and is seen in ShakeItUp's and Kidogo's RMT.I also tried it out in suspect ladder during last few days and it seemed to be more effective than SubSD(fuck you skarmory).It is very useful against the majority of offensive teams this meta getting KOs when protected by a Sub.It's also very effective against defensive teams.When you Sub,people expect sub SD and send their skarmopy only to get dented by Fire Blast.This makes the likes of Scarf Mence and other physical sweeper able to sweep more freely.The set is

Leftovers and Dragon Claw are usually prefered but the extra power of LO and outrage comes in handy too.The former options makes it more of a lure while the later focuses on self sweeping/wall breaking

I hope this overcentralization will die out soon enough. I'm sure it will once garchomp's usage goes down but if it doesn't then...ugh...

I'd also like to praise the SDYacheChomp. It's extremely hard to "6-0" as it used to before it lost its very-easy-to-abuse SV (Gen 5) and in gen 4. However, It's fast enough and strong enough to punch some holes as a backup sweeper. I'm sure you guys knew all that but what I'd like to mention is the combination of SDYacheChomp and baton pass. I've ran across one rain based team with a BP mew that had rock polish and swords dance that had a SDYacheChomp on the team. I'e not seen a BP team for a while so I was surprised and I lost my first encounter. Then I eagerly prep'd for it soon after. I'm not trying to say it's unstoppable combo because it's not. But I was wondering if any of you guys have any thoughts regarding SDYacheChomp with BP support (whether it be a full-on BP team or not...like the exp of my own).

Here are some reasons why I'm finding the various garchomp sets underwhelming without the haxy SV.

Choice - While Chomp sits at a trolly speed tier just beating Landorus-I and Thundurus - T, this generation, many scarfers are more suitable and better at revenge killing and at late game sweeping than chomp, like Mence (moxie). Terrakion and latios have the added advantage of outspeeding many +2 pokes and also outspeed modest venusaur under sun (it's not common now). When chomp locks itself into outrage or earthquake, the number of counters get considerably more as with any scarfer. However, with salamence the counters can be beaten with enough boosts.

Sub + SD - Without sand veil, you cannot keep subbing and expecting a miss and winning. While garchomp has bulk 102 speed is not enough to sweep teams, as many teams keep faster unscarfed pokes who can kill a low garchomp (after subbing) like starmie, latios, etc.

Yache - Probably the best option in the metagame. As everybodies trying out chomp in ou, no. of ice attacks has increased tremendously and so yache berry works. It gives the advantage of killing the metal bug as it fails to ko, and killing mamo. Still dragon attacks from faster scarfers murder chomp.

Salac - Theoretically this works brilliantly, but the added priority this generation is hindering it. It is also tougher to set up with as again no sand veil. Instead of this salac swords dance terrakion does a much better job, especially in sand with that defense boost.

A big thing that will be holding Garchomp back a bit is the resurge of popularity of Mamoswine in this stage. When BW started, Mamoswine was relatively rare and was around 70% in usage, which is kind of pathetic to say the least. Now Mamoswine is a Top 20 Pokemon, and this is before Garchomp was unbanned and when Scizor was still around #1. Thanks to Genesect, Mamoswine's best counter is getting rarer, and Mamoswine is also much more wanted than before to destroy Garchomp with Ice Shard.

I can see Scarf Mamoswine getting a lot more common as well if Yache Berry or Substitute variants happen to get common with Garchomp. Icicle Spear will only be weakened by the first Yache Berry, and then it can just keep attacking. And it still does a ton of damage.

Has anybody come up with a leadchomp with like Outrage/Earthquake/Stone Edge or Fire Fang/Stealth Rock? It'll be guaranteed rocks against anything besides Mamowine or Starmie, right?

Click to expand...

It can guarantee getting rocks up, but it doesn't give you a lot of initial momentum or prevent another lead from setting up. You can't even 2HKO Deoxys-D without using LO+Outrage, so it's probably going to set up two layers on you or lock you into Outrage, at which point you're really far behind.

I suppose, but sometimes you gotta realize it is a game. Just have fun and be creative.

Click to expand...

and the way to win a game is by using good sets well

the problem with running bulky chomps is that, in addition to often risking being outclassed by other mons (there are MUCH better bulky dragons, and MUCH better bulky SR setters), they bring on a serious cost in that you cannot use any other garchomp. on most offensive teams you'll probably benefit more from either a more aggressive sr setter (eg lead terrakion) or a more aggressive chomp. i've seen this brought up elsewhere - opportunity cost, ie you chose to use a bulky chomp and now you no longer have the option of running an offensive set that, on most teams, is probably superior.

as for lead chomp, and as for SR chomp in general, garchomp is not very good as a lead right now. the lead metagame that we saw in dpp is starting to reform with a shift towards hyper offensive hazard-laying leads and momentum-grabbing uturn leads (every HO lead has to have a plan for deoxys-D, including deoxys itself, and most offensive teams also need a plan for lead genesect). most good offensive leads right now need to have a plan for that situation; garchomp has nothing. no taunt and not enough sheer power to wipe deoxys-D out on the spot, disadvantage against lead genesect and against most other offensive uturning leads (although if the target does not have an ice move, sd yache can nab a dance right on the first turn, and if the opp uturns you have the yache to avoid being checked... i guess it's an option). in terms of using garchomp as a guaranteed SR lead, it's really not a good option at all, even though it can theoretically do it. really, most leads right now need to do more than get up hazards; they also need to find some kind of edge against other leads, which garchomp does not have.

I can't believe I am going to say this, but outrage is such a useless move on chomp, I mean he gets locked into outrage only to get revenged by dragonite and pals, it's not like mence where he will be faster than gene sect and could get a moxie boost and then wreak genesect or eventually kill a weakened gensect now it gets a chance to sweep and at least dragonite might kill a weakened genesect or mamoswine at full health. He is just so slow all these threats have to be deal with, before he set up or spam out rage and they are so many of them.

Hone Claws allows for the Forgotten Dragon Attk Dragon Rush to be accurate as well as Fire Blast who's accuracy is also shaky. I'm not sure I put the right EVs and even though this set is outclassed by SD it can still prove effective. Right?

Hone Claws allows for the Forgotten Dragon Attk Dragon Rush to be accurate as well as Fire Blast who's accuracy is also shaky. I'm not sure I put the right EVs and even though this set is outclassed by SD it can still prove effective. Right?

Click to expand...

you'll rarely be able to use slac so if your gonna use this set which is clearly outclassed by salamence or a dragon dance salamence set use life orb so fire blast actually deals some damage.

salac needs substitute, ain't no way around that fact. otherwise you can't activate it reliably. hone claws is an interesting idea but the extra turns of boosting needed to match an SD'd outrage will probably render it not worthwhile.

it's right in between a few options that are probably better - a +2 dragon claw is stronger than a +1 dragon rush (narrowly), so the whole thing about not getting locked into outrage doesn't really apply, and an SD outrage is way stronger than a hone claws dragon rush, so there's no firepower advantage either.

salac needs substitute, ain't no way around that fact. otherwise you can't activate it reliably. hone claws is an interesting idea but the extra turns of boosting needed to match an SD'd outrage will probably render it not worthwhile.

it's right in between a few options that are probably better - a +2 dragon claw is stronger than a +1 dragon rush (narrowly), so the whole thing about not getting locked into outrage doesn't really apply, and an SD outrage is way stronger than a hone claws dragon rush, so there's no firepower advantage either.

Click to expand...

I comepletely agree, atm it dosn't seem like dragon claw is such a bad option for chomp with these revenge killers out their to trap outrage users.

Hone Claws allows for the Forgotten Dragon Attk Dragon Rush to be accurate as well as Fire Blast who's accuracy is also shaky. I'm not sure I put the right EVs and even though this set is outclassed by SD it can still prove effective. Right?

Click to expand...

Not bad...not bad at all. I'd run Yache or Life Orb over Salac, but it looks like a decent set.

Hrm... without Sand Veil I have a feeling Garchomp will be more anti meta than anything else. That 102 speed is still very trollish with it's ability to outrun not only many scarfs with it's scarf, but most importantly it can outpace choice scarf genesect making it a worthy check to Voltturn (as it also isn't affected by Volt Switch) only time will tell how it is in the OU environment though.

Click to expand...

Never. Do you know just how powerful Max attack Haxorus really is? Sheesh. Most of the time, Garchomp is running Jolly max speed anyway, so his true power isn't even used half the time. Also Garchomp's extreme weakness to common threats such as Mamoswine, Starmie, and Keldeo who all carry Ice moves can take this thing out no problem, even with a Yache Berry. Haxorus has only a x2 weakness to Ice and Dragon, letting him stay in on Mamoswine who may try to Ice Shard him and OHKO right back.

Also, Choice Scarf Haxorus is also just as dangerous, because it can OHKO Dragonite through Multiscale! Imagine that thing in UU. If this thing went down to UU, that metagame would be trash, and a Choice Banded or Life Orb Weavile would have to be on every team to even threaten it.

I see nothing wrong with this bog standard cb rain supported garchomp, it has much more vesitilty than as sets as more often or not chomp wants to spam outrage but knows genesect is a flat out ko with ice beam and that's through yanche with scarf, had my own chomp hit by it. This set has the power and varity that you don't screem why I just outrage

Will do, Pocket. Reason I chose the Choice Scarf set, it becomes an effective revenge killer once equipped with a Choice Scarf. Garchomp has always been one of my favorite Dragon-Types, and once I found out it left the Uber Tier, I knew it would provide the revenge killing support my team needed all along. I chose Garchomp over many other revenge killers such as Salamence, Landerous, etc, because with its 102 base speed, it can easily out-speed Salamence, as well as other base 100 speed Pokémon. In addition, it's also naturally bulky for a revenge killer. Landerous is another good revenge killer, but on a sun team, I think it wouldn't be as good if it were on a sand team. In the end, Garchomp's good physical attack stat, tremendous typing, natural bulk, and most noticeably his 102 base speed, make it an effective revenge killer for my sun team. :)

Hone Claws allows for the Forgotten Dragon Attk Dragon Rush to be accurate as well as Fire Blast who's accuracy is also shaky. I'm not sure I put the right EVs and even though this set is outclassed by SD it can still prove effective. Right?

What would be considered a "waste" with natural bulk and abstain for late game sweeping given its raw power and Stealth Rock resistance, Focus Sash Garchomp may be uncommon yet has been sighted and used by myself and one or two players whom are fond of strong, fast and threatning SR set ups. Here is the set:

It's very similar to Terrakion but possesses the ability to win one-on-one because of Rough Skin. If you fear Terrakion will Taunt, Earthquake on turn one and you'll at least be up 6-5. You can set up against most teams with relative ease and potentially sweep providing the opposing team does not run Skarmory.

It's by no means as effective as the Yache Berry set in terms of sweeping capabilities (Fire Fang or Aqua Tail depending on your weather), but reserves the right to be considered when looking for a fast set up whilst maintaining an immediate threat to the core of your opponents' team.

When you run Fire Blast on Chomp are you guys finding it's better to run a Naive/Hasty (Maybe Hasty so Genesect get's the Atk Boost) to boost Fire Blast power or do you prefer to run Jolly and find that the power differnce is minimal and keep Chomp's great Bulk?

After running some calcs Focus Sash Garchomp actually seems much more useful than i would have thought at first especially considering the abudance of players that lead with Genesect, but it really seems to be outclassed by Terrakion who at least got taunt to stop deo-D and gives a shit about Genesect.