Guys I really need help. for the past few weeks, I can't think straight, or eat, or sleep well. Someone being accidentally buried alive is all I can think about. And this is possible. Even here in North America. Let's say if a home death occurs. First of all, the doctor doesn't go to your home to pronounce the person dead. He merely certifies the death certificate. From a distance. He doesn't even check the body for any sign of life (or death). Even if he did, he could make mistakes. Search for it on the internet, there are a lot of cases of people being erroneously pronounced dead who later came back to life. I think, what if I, or someone I care about, happen to be an unfortunate case, where they/I get mispronounced dead? Then what will surely follow is being buried alive or cremated alive, both of which are too terrible to even contemplate.

I am thinking about starting a website, probably have it called, "make embalming mandatory". The idea behind it is that embalming will surely kill off anybody who is unfortunate enough to be mispronounced dead, thereby preventing the extremely cruel fate of premature burial/cremation. But I know that such a site will never gain wide spread popularity--people of our times simply do not consider premature burial to be a very possible event, nor something that's of pressing concern. So I am feeling very down right now. But I know it's something that I WILL have to do, for my own peace of mind. I literally cannot imagine people going through the terror of being buried alive. And I know that such a thing is bound to happen, because doctors/coroners are people, and as people, they sometimes err.

Bob, don't mock. Fears can be overwhelming. From where we are standing, it's fear as we all have, everyone's afraid of being buried alive. But the proportion Orba has it in is pretty bad.

Orba, your fear is as old as the world. Everyone has it. Looking up this stuff will just make you more scared. You can appoint someone who will check you're really dead before you're buried, a relative or a friend who will make sure it is properly verified first and that no shortcuts are being taken.
Me, I've opted for cremation anyways. I don't want to leave behind remains. I'm destined to survive all those who care about me, so there will be no one left to mourn over me.

Orba, I hope you do not go on a moral crusade; that would only feed the irrational fear instead of conquering it. Your family doctor can refer you to an expert who can help you overcome the phobia.

Click to expand...

I apologize but I don't quite understand what you meant by "moral crusade", and how it would feed the fear. The way I see it, premature burial has an existing chance of happening to my fellow citizens, as such, I regard it as my moral duty to try and prevent. And making embalming legally required seems to do the trick.

It's like I said, doctors CAN make mistakes in mispronouncing someone dead. And when that inevitably happens, the only thing that stands between being buried/cremated alive and the person, is embalming. Embalming serves as a last line of defence. I hope I am making sense. Also, my fear of taphephobia isn't irrational, imho. It has a very real, definite chance of happening. And given the vast population of North America, it is bound to happen to a few people, regardless of how low the probability of live burial happening is. And it is because of this, that I believe it is imperative that we have some sort of preventative measure in place to prevent such an exceedingly cruel fate from happening to some of our citizens.

Bob, don't mock. Fears can be overwhelming. From where we are standing, it's fear as we all have, everyone's afraid of being buried alive. But the proportion Orba has it in is pretty bad.

Orba, your fear is as old as the world. Everyone has it. Looking up this stuff will just make you more scared. You can appoint someone who will check you're really dead before you're buried, a relative or a friend who will make sure it is properly verified first and that no shortcuts are being taken.
Me, I've opted for cremation anyways. I don't want to leave behind remains. I'm destined to survive all those who care about me, so there will be no one left to mourn over me.

Click to expand...

Hi Vi, thank you for being understanding. It is true that I have already made arrangements for someone to perform after I am dead to ensure that I won't be buried alive. However, it is the vast number of my fellow citizens out there that I am concerned with. These people, oblivious to the very real possibility of being buried a live, go through their lives not bothering to ensure such a fate won't happen to them. This worries me sick. I have taken it upon myself to change the law here in British Columbia such that everybody will have to be embalmed after they are dead, and this is to ensure that premature burial won't happen. You know, those people whose signs of life are overlooked by a careless physician, and this is bound to happen, because humans make mistakes, and I want to make sure each and every one of my fellow citizens will be spared this cruel fate.

I read an article in the newspaper about this subject on a daily basis, but always it is in a country with less fortunate people / bad hygien / lots of poverty and starvation.

I've never read about something like this happening in America or Europe (it might though) but I think you'd have to be more afraid of a meteor hitting you in the face.

Are you also claustraphopic? Perhaps you have to start with facing lesser fears in a controlled environment and then work your way up to the point where you can live more or less normal.

Remember, there are a gazillions things to worry about or fear in this universe, but as long as you're not personally affected, why should it bother you? There is no point in worrying or panicking in any situation, always calm yourself down and look for the most helpfull/logical thing you can say or do to improve the situation.

I read an article in the newspaper about this subject on a daily basis, but always it is in a country with less fortunate people / bad hygien / lots of poverty and starvation.

I've never read about something like this happening in America or Europe (it might though) but I think you'd have to be more afraid of a meteor hitting you in the face.

Are you also claustraphopic? Perhaps you have to start with facing lesser fears in a controlled environment and then work your way up to the point where you can live more or less normal.

Remember, there are a gazillions things to worry about or fear in this universe, but as long as you're not personally affected, why should it bother you? There is no point in worrying or panicking in any situation, always calm yourself down and look for the most helpfull/logical thing you can say or do to improve the situation.

Click to expand...

No I don't think I am claustraphobic. Then again, it doesn't really matter. Being buried alive is bad enough without throwing claustraphobia in the mix. Also, just because you have never read about this happening here in N. America, it doens't mean it doens't happen. Maybe we did bury somebody alive, but we just haven't dug them up yet to discover it. You know, we here in North America have a lot of room so we are not in any hurry to dig up any graves for expanding towns. Also, the reason we don't hear it happen in North America is probably because we tend to embalm our dead. So you can see, embalming does have a lot of advantages.

Also, I must respectfully disagree with you that as long as I am not personally affected, I shouldn't let it bother me. The way I see it, if this insanely cruel fate of premature burial has any chance of happening to another human, I regard it as my moral duty to try and prevent it. This is because I love human beings, each and every one of them. It literally breaks my heart to imagine this kind of thing happening to even just one of them. This is the reason behind why I want to change existing laws in British Columbia as to make embalming legally required. I want to prevent premature burial from happening to not just myself, but other people too.

Also, could you elaborate on how you read about this in the newspaper on a daily basis? Does this mean premature burial happens very often? God, this is too awful.

I'm really warming up to this Orba Character. He/she/it has started some intriguing threads.

I think Damnmaster is right, we're just going to have to help them face their fears. We're going to have to bury Orba alive in a controlled environment. Repeatedly. Until they realize that there's nothing to fear, except being buried alive--which sounds awful.

Also, I must respectfully disagree with you that as long as I am not personally affected, I shouldn't let it bother me. The way I see it, if this insanely cruel fate of premature burial has any chance of happening to another human, I regard it as my moral duty to try and prevent it. This is because I love human beings, each and every one of them. It literally breaks my heart to imagine this kind of thing happening to even just one of them. This is the reason behind why I want to change existing laws in British Columbia as to make embalming legally required. I want to prevent premature burial from happening to not just myself, but other people too.

Also, could you elaborate on how you read about this in the newspaper on a daily basis? Does this mean premature burial happens very often? God, this is too awful.

Click to expand...

If you can activally prevent it, and possibly influence the law itself, you have my blessing.

Out of curiosity, of all the problems in this world, why are you feeling so strongly about this? There's war / famine / rape / murder / theft / random acts of violence / etc..., and you choose to fight being buried alive?

Perhaps reading on a daily basis that there is a war going on in some part of the world, parents abuse their own children, people kidnap eachother, humans get murdered for a penny and a cigarette, etc... has made me somewhat insensitive to virtually all of these issues.

Don't get me wrong, I'm capable of great caring and understanding, and will be the first to jump if somebody needs my help, but I can't seem to care anymore about distant problems related to people I'll never see.

I'd rather take care of a good friend when he/she is ill, lend some money or offer a listening ear etc... than to donate 5 euros to people who ring at my door for cancer/war/... (who keep showing up 2-3 times per day here)

I'm really warming up to this Orba Character. He/she/it has started some intriguing threads.

I think Damnmaster is right, we're just going to have to help them face their fears. We're going to have to bury Orba alive in a controlled environment. Repeatedly. Until they realize that there's nothing to fear, except being buried alive--which sounds awful.

Click to expand...

Well actually, if it's a phobia, you have to do something about it to cure yourself (medicine/psycho talk/facing fear), but you don't need to actually be buried to face that fear, just cut the fear of buried alive into its different aspects (darkness / small room / alone) and work your way up to facing those things seperatelly up to the point where you no longer worry about tephephobia.

I apologize but I don't quite understand what you meant by "moral crusade", and how it would feed the fear. The way I see it, premature burial has an existing chance of happening to my fellow citizens, as such, I regard it as my moral duty to try and prevent. And making embalming legally required seems to do the trick.

Click to expand...

Moral crusades often do far more harm than good, under the guise of good. You basically want police to kick in the doors of mourning families, grab their dead loved one, and do things to the body the family and deceased person oppose. Even though I'm naturalist, I of course want religious cultures to perform whatever burial practices they want...even at the risk of things going wrong.

There isn't much air in a coffin. At worst, the buried would suffer just minutes of panic and discomfort. As with gun laws, abortion laws, and so many others, people will break them. People will also go to jail and get career-wrecking criminal records over victimless "crimes".

Your idea would force religious families to euthanize their sick loved ones (maybe with years of life left in them) and have secret funerals to avoid the brave heroes marching in and forcing an embalming. Millions would avoid hospitals b/c there is no escaping that system...and they would die with decades of potential life left to go.

It's like I said, doctors CAN make mistakes in mispronouncing someone dead. And when that inevitably happens, the only thing that stands between being buried/cremated alive and the person, is embalming.

Click to expand...

You want people embalmed alive then?

You can't think of any other ways to ensure someone is dead? There is a Spike TV show about this...

Also, my fear of taphephobia isn't irrational, imho. It has a very real, definite chance of happening. And given the vast population of North America, it is bound to happen to a few people, regardless of how low the probability of live burial happening is. And it is because of this, that I believe it is imperative that we have some sort of preventative measure in place to prevent such an exceedingly cruel fate from happening to some of our citizens.

Click to expand...

A phobia is irrational. At the very least, read the Wikipedia article. Your concern over malpractices and mistakes, however, is sound. It's just rather trifling in a world where people are wrongfully imprisoned and tortured to death over days. You can be far more help to others with a clear-minded approach rather than stuck on a leash of illness. This is why you should see if a councilor can help with the anxiety.

The way I see it, if this insanely cruel fate of premature burial has any chance of happening to another human, I regard it as my moral duty to try and prevent it. This is because I love human beings, each and every one of them. It literally breaks my heart to imagine this kind of thing happening to even just one of them.

Click to expand...

But, as noted, there are masses starving all the way to death. Why focus on preventing a few seconds of suffocation in a box when you could prevent years of torture? This is an example of why your fear and preoccupation is irrational.

If you can activally prevent it, and possibly influence the law itself, you have my blessing.

Click to expand...

Gee, thanks. You know, there are people slowly dying due to the need of organs. When you die, I want your organs forcibly taken from you to help eliminate this suffering. If your parents/wife resist, they ought to be thrown in jail and lose their good jobs (most good jobs require a clear police criminal record check). I hope they don't get abused in jail, but if they do, hey, they should have handed their deceased over. It's the law. I am a great hero, btw, looking out for those precious seconds of life that could have been spared.

"Also, I must respectfully disagree with you that as long as I am not personally affected, I shouldn't let it bother me. The way I see it, if this insanely cruel fate of premature burial has any chance of happening to another human, I regard it as my moral duty to try and prevent it. This is because I love human beings, each and every one of them. It literally breaks my heart to imagine this kind of thing happening to even just one of them. This is the reason behind why I want to change existing laws in British Columbia as to make embalming legally required. I want to prevent premature burial from happening to not just myself, but other people too."

"Also, I must respectfully disagree with you that as long as I am not personally affected, I shouldn't let it bother me. The way I see it, if this insanely cruel fate of premature burial has any chance of happening to another human, I regard it as my moral duty to try and prevent it. This is because I love human beings, each and every one of them. It literally breaks my heart to imagine this kind of thing happening to even just one of them. This is the reason behind why I want to change existing laws in British Columbia as to make embalming legally required. I want to prevent premature burial from happening to not just myself, but other people too."

This bold part was all I was referring too?

Click to expand...

My last paragraph was a sarcastic example, but the same principle applies to forced embalming.

Alright, so you only want the police to force embalming in BC. The problem is still there: "legally required" is the nice way of saying "you will hand your dead over to us, or get fined/go to jail." BC families who disagree with embalming would be pressured to euthanize their sick and elderly and have secret funerals, or risk ruined careers. All for what? One in a hundred thousand junkies might squirm in their coffins for 30 seconds. It isn't worth forcing people to embalm when a clothespin on the nose will make sure a body is dead.

Not to mention the millions it would cost to pass and enforce yet another pointless law, lost productivity and economic loss from people who break this law, etc. Burial practices are a big part of religions, and with most people being religious, such a law would never happen anyway.

If you can activally prevent it, and possibly influence the law itself, you have my blessing.

Out of curiosity, of all the problems in this world, why are you feeling so strongly about this? There's war / famine / rape / murder / theft / random acts of violence / etc..., and you choose to fight being buried alive?

Click to expand...

I choose to fight being buried alive because the way I understand it, it is an extremely horrific way to die. I don't want people to suffer this extremely cruel fate, which though distant, has a very real chance of happening.

Well actually, if it's a phobia, you have to do something about it to cure yourself (medicine/psycho talk/facing fear), but you don't need to actually be buried to face that fear, just cut the fear of buried alive into its different aspects (darkness / small room / alone) and work your way up to facing those things seperatelly up to the point where you no longer worry about tephephobia.

Click to expand...

Even if I could somehow cure taphephobia, what about being cremated alive? There is no way I can get over that fear, and premature cremation can happen, too.

My last paragraph was a sarcastic example, but the same principle applies to forced embalming.

Alright, so you only want the police to force embalming in BC. The problem is still there: "legally required" is the nice way of saying "you will hand your dead over to us, or get fined/go to jail." BC families who disagree with embalming would be pressured to euthanize their sick and elderly and have secret funerals, or risk ruined careers. All for what? One in a hundred thousand junkies might squirm in their coffins for 30 seconds. It isn't worth forcing people to embalm when a clothespin on the nose will make sure a body is dead.

Click to expand...

I am sorry but I don't know what "clothespin on the nose" means, and how does it make sure a person is dead?

Not to mention the millions it would cost to pass and enforce yet another pointless law, lost productivity and economic loss from people who break this law, etc. Burial practices are a big part of religions, and with most people being religious, such a law would never happen anyway.

Click to expand...

I think you make very good points. How about this, I have another solution. Maybe we can outfit the coroner/physician with portable EEG device that can measure people's brain waves, and they can use this device when they go to a supposed death, then they can use this portable EEG device to see if they can detect any brain activity? That way people who are just unconscious won't be buried/cremated alive by mistake? What do you think?

Moral crusades often do far more harm than good, under the guise of good. You basically want police to kick in the doors of mourning families, grab their dead loved one, and do things to the body the family and deceased person oppose. Even though I'm naturalist, I of course want religious cultures to perform whatever burial practices they want...even at the risk of things going wrong.

Click to expand...

So you would rather let someone get buried alive?

There isn't much air in a coffin. At worst, the buried would suffer just minutes of panic and discomfort.

Click to expand...

Actually, I have seen this TV program where they showed the face of a victim of premature burial. She showed signs of dreadful, extreme torture on her face, and her fingers were all broken and bent back from clawing at the coffin. I find that you tend to trivialize the suffering of those unfortunate enough to be buried alive.

As with gun laws, abortion laws, and so many others, people will break them. People will also go to jail and get career-wrecking criminal records over victimless "crimes".

You can't think of any other ways to ensure someone is dead? There is a Spike TV show about this...

Click to expand...

Well, do you have any better ways of ensuring someone is dead? I can't think of any except for the portable EEG device thing.

But, as noted, there are masses starving all the way to death. Why focus on preventing a few seconds of suffocation in a box when you could prevent years of torture? This is an example of why your fear and preoccupation is irrational.

Click to expand...

First of all, it's not just premature burial. I am talking about premature cremation too. And that is so self-apparently awful that I believe doing everything I can to prevent it is worth it. Also, you seem to be saying just because there are other bad things happening in the world, I shouldn't be focusing on one particular bad thing (in this case, premature burial/cremation) that you personally regard to be not as important. I don't understand. I have only limited resources, of course I am going to focus my efforts on things that I personally deem to be the most urgent. What are you saying, that I should just forget about preventing people from being buried/cremated alive, just because there are other bad things out there happening?

I choose to fight being buried alive because the way I understand it, it is an extremely horrific way to die. I don't want people to suffer this extremely cruel fate, which though distant, has a very real chance of happening.

Even if I could somehow cure taphephobia, what about being cremated alive? There is no way I can get over that fear, and premature cremation can happen, too.

Click to expand...

Okay, let's start with the statistics, how many people are actually buried/cremated alive while being consious?

There have probably been a few cases, but in most cases, the people are presumed dead so in a deep coma of some sorts, now what are the odds of them waking up by themselves exactly in the 2 minute-ish time window you have before you run out of oxygen?

There are a lot more people dying the exact same way on a more regular basis:
example 1: earthquake causes building to collapse, you're trapped under it and slowly die over the course of 1-2 weeks due to dehydration and starvation and possibly infections/complications (compared to the course of minutes spend in a coffin before dying of lack of oxygen)
example 2: you're in a burning building, you can't escape and before you can die of carbondioxide poisoning, you get trapped in a flashfire, burning to dead over the course of the next few minutes

And keep in mind that in my realistic every day 2 examples you are fully aware of what happens, whereas in a coffin you're 99.999999999999999999% sure to be unconscious.

Okay, let's start with the statistics, how many people are actually buried/cremated alive while being consious?

There have probably been a few cases, but in most cases, the people are presumed dead so in a deep coma of some sorts, now what are the odds of them waking up by themselves exactly in the 2 minute-ish time window you have before you run out of oxygen?

Click to expand...

If what you say is true, then how come I have come across so many horror stories of people being exhumed years after burial, only for us to find facial features of extreme torture, plus bent/bloody fingers? These people must have been in a deep coma prior to being buried, and they did awake by themselves just after being placed in a grave.

There are a lot more people dying the exact same way on a more regular basis:
example 1: earthquake causes building to collapse, you're trapped under it and slowly die over the course of 1-2 weeks due to dehydration and starvation and possibly infections/complications (compared to the course of minutes spend in a coffin before dying of lack of oxygen)

Click to expand...

Actually I believe you have about 1 to 2 hours worth of oxygen in a sealed coffin. this is not taking into account in some cultures, they tend to bore a small hole in the coffin to allow air in as to speed up decomposition. In this scenario. the person trapped inside the coffin can survive and feel mental anguish for longer.

example 2: you're in a burning building, you can't escape and before you can die of carbondioxide poisoning, you get trapped in a flashfire, burning to dead over the course of the next few minutes

And keep in mind that in my realistic every day 2 examples you are fully aware of what happens, whereas in a coffin you're 99.999999999999999999% sure to be unconscious.

Click to expand...

See above. Historical accounts of live burial disagrees with you. People had been known to wake up in coffins all by themselves and died a horrific death as a result.