Protoss Discussion

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Aug 18
How to Deal
with the ladder torture? every game is loosing if u paly the race- sould we just all switching to ez zerg and terrancraft?IIIIIIIIIIII3
Aug 18

Aug 14
What's a Brotoss?
I've seen some people refer to Protoss as Brotoss. Just curious as what the Bro means and why the replacement. isospeedrix75
Aug 14

Aug 14
PVT - Terran nearly always wins
4 min ago Protoss have little chance against terran early to mid game. All a toss can really do vs terran is to defend. The terran will send endless drops and do split attacks on main and exps. Adepts are weak period. Phoenix sucks because it can only attack air. The game is so rigged in terran's favor. Blizz needs to fix this asap. Solutions: Make zealots cheaper Make charged pylons do more damage Make reapers slower Lower marine hit points Raise cost of marines These are just some ideas. I am a Diamond player that loses most of the time to Terran. I am just sick of it.SarajevoD21
Aug 14

Aug 13
RE SC1 Remaster.
I hope Blizzard address what exactly happened to Fenix's psi-blades after the battle of Antioch, 15+ years and I haven't the foggiest as to why they just shut down on him like that when those 3 Hydralisks came at him. Ive been gone from the forums/pc gaming for a long time though, has this topic ever been discussed?NovaPrime1
Aug 13

Aug 12
Protoss Players...
Interested in 1v1 practice? I am putting together a group of people and maybe more to make available a place to find somebody to spar with. If you would like your name in the hat, put it in a paper airplane and throw it my way. I hope you are good at making paper airplanes, because to reach me it will probably have to go pretty far. I'm currently a M2 zerg and we have an M2 protoss. But even if you are new to the game, I would like to get anyone involved not just Code S players (OK?). So if you are Bronze, send me a paper airplane! If you are GM, send me a paper airplane. I don't care about your league, I care that you feel like you have options and make definitive goals to strive towards. So go ahead and tell your friends, grandmother, cat, and the flying purple people eaters about this. Maybe we can get something awesome going. Practice#11725IIIIIIIIIIII6
Aug 12

Aug 11
Blizz Address weak state of protoss
I've never seen it this bad whether it's laddering, or in tournaments All i see is zergs and terrans in the RO4 anymore. Protoss is so under powered you can even play the AI vs terran on very hard and AI mech's a comp that's damn near unbeatable, zerg units are alot more cheaper and stronger than protoss units... I'm sick of blizzard never buffing or balancing Protoss w/ the other 2 Stronger races , esp vs Terran and Zerg both... It's a huge unaddressed problem and it's the core reason i stopped playing! When you units just melt to terran comps & zerg comps something is wrong I used to win alot more games w/ the same comps that melt. Terran is far too over buffed...InfidiumX19
Aug 11

Aug 11
Pylon field
How bout fixing the pylon field, when a pylon is built on the natural it shouldnt show that in the base when it isnt there pylon to cannom is vostlyTony0
Aug 11

Aug 11
effective Carrier Rush build
I've been rushed many times by this, instead of raging about how OP protoss are, I decide to try it out myself. Can anyone tell me an effective build for getting carriers while having enough defense to survive in a normal match. Much thanksGaudemas13
Aug 11

Aug 10
Carriers' lack of balance
Whenever a game gets too long, the Carriers are totally unmatched by most any unit... and to top things off they get to have a mother ship which cloaks them. There isn't a single unit on Terran or Zerg in the maxed out game that can counter that. So the only really good strategy against them is to not let the game get that long. But that seems like bull. Shouldn't the other races have some sort of unit that can counter it? Why not go back to the non-automatic interceptors... that would help.LngsTasteBad8
Aug 10

Aug 9
Protoss Warp Out?
I understand that protoss being unable to heal their troops on the field is part of the flavor and balance of the race (healing and repairing after the battle). Zerg get slow regen, terran get medics and repair, and protoss get shields, but for the most part, a wounded protoss unit stays wounded. Sure, shields help, but in game, sometimes the best option seems to be to sacrifice a bunch of wounded units to free up supply to spend on something else. But considering the protoss have less than a disposable arsenal and limited manpower, this seems plain stupid. If it's so hard to repair protoss forces and tend to wounded zealots on the battlefield, why not have a way to warp out weakened units, or ones that won't be as effective in the current state of the battlefield (warping out weakened zealots against a largely air based army, or warping out phoenixes when the enemy surrenders air control, so on and so fourth)? I guess in game, if there were a structure to do that, it would mechanically work kind of like a recycler of sorts, where units would "load" into and after a short time, warp out of the map and refund some resources. Something to incentivize keeping units alive, vs the terrans who only care about their heavy ordinance and the zerg who are designed to just brute force their way through everything. The exception could be archons, considering their lore means they just blow up sometime after the battle. I'm not asking for balance changes, in fact I have not played ladder since 2013, so I have nothing productive to say there (sorry). But for when SC3 (hopefully) rolls around, I think it's an idea to consider for toss. Thoughts?Defnderpilot0
Aug 9

Aug 7
Idea to improve Disruptor
Protoss would be more "fun" for players if the disruptor was faster ( not the nova shot or the cool down time on it shorter but the unit itself ) This would give P some thing to micro with and make the unit not such an all or nothing thing. Maybe balance the increase in unit movement speed with nova shot speed slow down. I think the disruptor could be a really "fun" unit but the design dev team tried to make it an LOTV version of the BW reaver I think Protoss players should consider supporting something like this.blueant3
Aug 7

Jul 31
Pvz: Nydus with Hydra/Lurker
How do you beat it as Toss? What do you do against a Nydus in your Main, one in your Natural and the Rest attacks your third/fourth? Since Nydus cant be killed while morphing in (???? WHY) cannons dont do anything. Obs get sniped so you NEED oracles, but by the time you get to tag the lurkers they have already traded cost efficiently, especially because your own Buildings will block your path. Also, if you didnt open Stargate and dont have 1-2 oracles out, youre pretty much dead 200% because you wont have any Detection.Cirdaen1
Jul 31

Jul 31
Marauder w/ stim vs Immortal
I'm a 500 diamond and just got beat twice by a 700 terran and the main thing he did to beat me was abuse the range difference between his marauders (which has stim+conc) vs my immortals. Have you guys experienced this yet? It hasn't happened often but it seems he did it fairly easily. Now I'm thinking I'm gonna have to just try to spam sentries and some cannon towers at my choke super fast and tech chargelots and not expand till I have that completed. How do you guys handle the abuse? Do you manage to have sentries to keep them from kiting your immortals? I feel like asking to get immortal range equalized to marauder range (either range buff for imo or nerf buff for marauder) but I probably just need to L2p.Blackfoot21
Jul 31

Jul 30
cyclone cheese
How do you deal with this cheese? Very frustrating getting defeated by thisbingrop9
Jul 30

Jul 27
Toss air op in teams?
Anyone else notice toss air has been a little op in 4s ever since the nerf to para bomb? Just seems like 90% of all protoss players in high diamond to high masters in 4v4 are just going for cannon rush into voids. I remember it not being as bad about a year ago (been on hiatus that long) but para bomb put an end to those shenanigans. I noticed Terran thors got a neat little range extend but noticed I'm better off making 6 corruptors and 4 infestors rather than 6 vipers.SomeBK4
Jul 27

Jul 27
Glaives or +1 vs T and Z
I think the general opinion is for +1. But doesn't an Adept get a whole extra Atk with Glaives? I am asking especially for Phoenix adept in PVT ThanksNeptune1
Jul 27

Jul 20
Noob dealing with mass void ray/carriers
I'm a new player, been playing for a month and a half, didn't have much trouble than concerd me except dealing in pvp against (well, cannon rush, but thats a different question) and some people massing void rays or even void rays + carriers. They have 0 ground units. I tend to build 4 gateways and a robo and pull a reasonable groudn army, and I try to scout as much as I can to know what I'm dealing with, but when I have a large ground army and scout like 15 void rays or like 6 carriers (also some people usually go forge and make a ton of cannons so its difficult for me to try to take their base before they reach tier 3) I sometimes don't have time to switch or maybe don't know how to. I tried making a ton of Stalkers with a few of Sentries for mass carriers with some void rays of my own, and tried Blink Stalkers for void rays with some phoenixes.Fakus7
Jul 20

Jul 20
Starting with Warpgate
What do you think about starting the game with warpgate for gateway units?cannedbeans1
Jul 20

Jul 19
HT bad in PvP
I recently been told that HT are bad in PvP. I was wondering why, and if I should just morph them into archons.Fakus7
Jul 19

Jul 19
Why do zealots still say, "My life for Aiur!"
The protoss zealots always say My life for Aiur! when they're warped but isn't Aiur destroyed/infested by the zerg? If so please explain if you can. Thanks!MysteryEC44
Jul 19

Jul 16
Protoss Purchasable Tal'darim Skin Change
Recently Alarak was added as one of the co-op heroes. When I played him I was both pleased and slightly annoyed that the buildings had a Tal'darim skin change. I was annoyed because I feel like there's so many unused Tal'darim skins, and I know they were used in campaign and co-op but still I feel like there's more potential. That's why I feel like there should be a purchasable Tal'darim skin change. I don't what to say if this task is easy or not, but I feel like it would be (I have no idea). I feel like it's easy because almost all of the Protoss building and unit skins have a Tal'darim counterpart. Also I think that this could be profitable. Like I said earlier, recently Alarak was added as one of the co-op heroes so this must be making a decent amount of money, right? I don't have much experience programming games but I would think its easier to do a skin change than it is to balance and pick a new hero. So if the Tal'darim skin change was charged for the same amount as a new hero, then I think that the money would be decent for the amount of work. In conclusion I think that there should be a purchasable Tal'darim skin change because I still think it would be fairly easy, and the money from it (I would think) would be decent.reaperEX10
Jul 16

Jul 15
Upgrade for Immortal
So a lot of Protoss players (myself included) feel like our race lacks a solid mid game army composition. This complain is centered around 2 major problems. 1) countering the ling, bane ,hydra army 2) countering bio army with tanks or lib without having to go always to adept-phoenix composition. We always wanted this unit that is not gimmicky or solely based on the usage of abilities but provides instead a solid, reliable solution. So my suggestion (and please try to be openminded) is a mid game upgrade for the immortal which can be researched from the robotic bay (like external lances). Lets name it Blast cannon!!! Name- blast cannon Cost-200m/150gas Time-100s Effect- The immortal attack has a very small radius aoe to light units only. The aoe can be 25% of the normal attack to a radius similar or a little smaller of the Archon's one. What will that accomplish 1) It will give the much desired mid game solid army composition Protoss needs 2)It is not an ability that requires activation to be of usage (like adept, stalker,sentry, disruptor, ht, dt, phoenix, void ray, oracle.....) 3) Does not come into play early enough to promote all ins 5) Enchases the possibilities for positional play and better control from both sides. The one with the immortals must actively target down the denser part of the army in order for the aoe to apply. His/her opponent will have to position and split his army better. Now lets examine the match-ups PVZ provides a solution vs hydra, ling, bane without being an overkill and without having to relay on perfect ff to win or lose. Still vulnerable to the Muta switch. At last lets not forget that at that point in the game the zerg player should already split vs disruptors, Storms or for maximal damage(banes). PVT provides a solution for the dreaded two base pushes without 1)affecting mech 2) hurting marauders AND 3) needing to go adept-phoenix or turtle to collosus PVP vs adept armies it does provides an edge. But then you can build disruptors against a player who goes heavy on immortals P vs Workers-they dont stack enough Overlapping with the Archon- Not only it does not attack air, its a different path to take. Thoughts??? I really think that modifications can and should be made to my suggestion. But i think the concept is correct. Personally I am a Diam Protoss although that does not have a lot to do with the topic in question. The main concern is to bring back all these retired Protoss players and make the race more fun to play THANKS!!!Neptune9
Jul 15

Jul 14
New Player Early Game Advice Needed
Hello everyone, As I mentioned in another thread I'm generally new to the Multiplayer game, I'm a Random player, and presently playing Unranked. Usually Battle.net is matching me against Gold League opponents right now, and my overall win percentage is 54% after 39 games. My win percentage as Protoss, however, is only 28%, and I'm looking to improve that a lot. Ironically I find I'm good with Protoss against the Versus AI, but not so much against real people. Typically I open with an Oracle harass (with two Oracles) and I tend to do this well, my problem is following that up; I either don't fully understand the unit compositions needed for Protoss and/or I'm making to few units. I typically make one, maybe two Zealots out of that first Gateway regardless of the Race I'm against, and then I usually start getting some Adepts while my Oracles are Warping In. Against Terran, I know Adepts are generally better early game than Zealots due to mobility and bonus to Light units, but what about against Zerg and Protoss? For Protoss I'm starting to think I should generally skip Adepts and go straight for Stalkers to help with their Oracles early on, and to negate any bonus damage from their Adepts. I usually Warp In about three Gateways overall at first, and then follow up with a Robotics Facility for a few Immortals. Thoughts/advice?Juxtapose5
Jul 14

Jul 9
How to deal anti-air as Protoss? :/
Sorry for a noob question. :/ How to deal anti-air as Protoss? :/ When I was Terran, Marines and Viking took care of anti-air but as Protoss I have difficulty handling anti-air. Corrupter eats Colossi and Brood Load has such long range :( Stalkers and Archons are my most units of anti-air but they are usually busy dealing ground DPS, than air......HelpHan9
Jul 9

Jul 8
what beats zealot archon combo
So I heatd zealot archon is very good if there not going colli so I am going to assume that colli beats zealot archon combo?Mrjellop8
Jul 8

Jul 6
How do the Protoss measure time?
The Protoss couldn't have measured time in Earth-years prior to their contact with the Terrans (since they didn't know anything at all about Earth prior to their contact with the Terrans), and they would have had little enough reason to change the way they measured time afterward. I would assume that they measured time in Aiur-years, since Aiur was their homeworld. Maybe the Nerazim measured time in Shakuras-years instead. Speaking of which, do we have any information about the revolutionary period of Aiur (or any other planet, for that matter)?Paviel0
Jul 6

Jul 6
How to deal with early pushes as Protoss
I just started playing and have already lost twie against an early push of marines + tanks and a lot of hydralisk. In the hydralisk game I ceratainly didnt build enough troops, but the other game the opponent build too many. He built half my workers but he created like 15 marines and 2 tanks (and i think 2 medavacs), i had like 4 inmortals and like 6 adepts (with mamacore), but lose the 6 adepts inmidiatly against the tanks and marines basically destroyed my inmortals. What should I do against this types of pushes? My opponent didn't even take the second base, he jsut turtle and spawned marines, i had the second base been spamming troops whenever I could, built portals, but he still had more troops and more powerful (checked replay and mariens had +1 attack, i couldn't even get the armor upgrade which i usually take first against terran because of time not minerals)Fakus6
Jul 6

Jul 4
Is zealot a completely worthless unit ?
Whose only purpose in game is to serve as a meat shield ? Did adepts make them 100% useless ? Or can I actually make an effective zealot-based army in some cases ? I just think they're a badass unit, I love their voice, the concept of a melee fighter that dies to save his world and all, I fell in love with this unit in the LOTV cinematic But they feel so weakFeitan10
Jul 4

Jun 30
Youtube content for Protoss in English
Hello guys ! I'm zuka, a french protoss player (reached GM this saeson on NA and 5400 MMR on Europe). I did some posts months ago about this but i added english content on my Youtube channel : https://www.youtube.com/c/zukaingame I do weekly VODs for protoss (every saturday) on many subjects : Build order, guides, explanation about how to counter specific things etc... for beginners or better players. Some english guys came on my youtube channel and they asked me to do some of my videos in English. So now i try to do weekly content in English too :) You can find this videos at the moment (you can ask for more if you want) : - PvT - Easy build order - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2ZWB9C9s5k - PvZ - Easy build order - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VhuPS5XnwQ - Scouting in PvP - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRlGlPALHoQzuka4
Jun 30

Jun 27
New Player
I am new to sc2 and I was wondering if anybody could give me a basic build order that I could follow. I have read that it is better to use one build order until I have mastered it. Any additional advice would be appreciated.naamPH9
Jun 27

Jun 25
Upgrade question
In regards to the prtoss shield upgrade: I never see pros use this upgrade and I'm wondering why. Does it stack with protoss armor upgrade? Why is armor better than shield? I'm obviously missing something about this so please be as detailed as you can. Thanks. P.s. I'm a zerg with very little toss experience.NoNoUDo4
Jun 25

Jun 23
Plat Level Protoss In Need of Help!
So I was able to make it to plat fairly easily but I seem to have hit a wall. I was just wondering what things I should be focusing on. My macro is pretty decent, I can usually get 3 bases and 65-70 probes by around 6-7:30 mins just depending on what my opponent does. However I haven't been doing a whole lot of harass. I'll send in the occasional 2 adepts but I've been trying to focus more on my macro until now but I feel that I need to start harassing more, I just don't know how. Here is my basic strat vs the races (obviously it depends on what they do but generally this is what I do in a macro game). PvP- 2 gate expand into stalkers, immos, and chargelots. Usually push around 8 mins. PvZ- 1 gate expand (walling off) into Glave Adepts, chargelots, and a bunch of archons. 7-8 min push. PvT- 1 gate expand into glave adepts and immos. Sometimes I will try to get collosis out as well. 8 min push. (usually bring about 3-4 sentries with my army as well and a warp prism) Any help would be great. Like what did you guys focus on to get to diamond?Nordy3
Jun 23

Jun 20
PvZ tips for not losing 90% of the matches?
Hi, Silver player here. I feel everything I throw vs Zerg is wrong or just doesn't work. I usually watch videos in YT about PvZ strategies but none of them did work properly. Against Zerg I always do the basics: FFE to hold off rushes and I try to keep tech up as much as I can, even with two forges. Things I tried: - Proxy pylon + gateway near the zerg natural. Spawning Adepts to kill drones in natural or making general pressure. - Rushing chargelots. - Proxy Stargate hidden somewhere and rushing Void Ray. This is actually the best strategy that worked for me against zerg, because most zerg players in my tier go mass roach. - DT warping harass. This only works the first time because once the first DT is spotted, the zerg usually starts spamming spores everywhere. I have been working with my macro, trying to always keep producing probes and pylons. But it doesn't matter what I do, I always lose to the massive fast zerg expansion and economy. Should I cheese more? Pressure more? Because it seems I don't know what to do against -for example- a ball of roaches/hydras. And I can't react as quickly as a zerg that can basically change 100% of the strategy in a second. I feel as Protoss I have to do a lot of things just to survive the early game. Not that I actually win in late game (Silver, remember) but well... you know. Any tips, mechanics, unit compositions or examples would be great. Thanks.Tomdan10
Jun 20

Jun 19
Should ff be redesign
I was thinking how map design effects toss by how well one can place ff by how big area or how micro tensile trying to get coverage. So my idea is turn it into wall type that one would cover 3 ff. How I see it in my head ones you see in over watch or league of legends wall that blocks incoming damage. The sentry would cast at 9 range I think draw back would that sentry would be Chaneling this where it can't move.lonedog0
Jun 19

Jun 13
What is the best way to beat Hydra Bane?
Recently, in every game I play against Z, my opponent goes hydra bane and straight out rolls over me. What army comp should I do against that? Or the only choice I have is micro my heart out?Whiteshadow3
Jun 13

Jun 12
Carriers vs Void Rays
I try to differentiate and rationalize the different situations some units are good in. But I'm having a hard time seeing the major differences between Void Rays and Carriers in that aspect. Carriers obviously have more HP, but their costs are pretty ridic. Any Protoss vets can help me understand when to use which and where?Coatl2
Jun 12

Jun 11
Mass Hydralisks with Supporting Lurkers
Hello everyone, I'm relatively new to the game and enjoying Unranked right now. I played my first Platinum opponent yesterday, a Zerg player, and was defeated by mass Hydralisks with some supporting Lurkers. The loss was my own, I didn't react properly and it cost me the game (and I'll learn from that), but one question I have is how do Protoss handle the above unit composition at Tier 2/2.5? I know Disruptors are the best choice, but they're Tier 3, as are Collosi and Psi Storm. Mass Hydralisks are a Tier 2 unit and Lurkers are a Tier 2.5 unit, so at that same Tier what is the Protoss player's option? Zealots or Adepts with Sentries, supported by some Immortals? Stasis Wards from Oracles? Thanks!Juxtapose6
Jun 11

Jun 10
How to do a pvz
Resently the adept change has hurt my strategy a lot What are good builds for zvp Im mainly winning with the adept all in and dt rushes so also what are good all ins vrs zerg?jakehfgd5
Jun 10

Jun 7
How do you do a PvP
How do you actually do a PvP So far everything ive seen deals with some crap strat like cannon rushing how do you do a legit pvp (is cannon rushing the only legit strat)?jakehfgd12
Jun 7

Jun 7
Defeating Terran Dropship Harass?
Hello, I seem to keep always losing against Terran with his widow mines, marines and marauder Dropship boosting from one of my bases to the other. He hits me on the top base and then I send my Adepts in. Then he picks up then goes at my 3rd base, then hits it with the dropship. SO I have to take my whole army such as Adepts, Sentries and such into the 3rd base and so on. He's micro-ing so well. I can possibly just create a third base at a different location where he can't initiate these drops off the cliffs/environment. But that would also sort of leave my natural undefended and he can switch but not as well to my main base and natural. It's a pain to defend and go against since it's not every game where I try to defend these drops. Yet every game a mastered Terran pretty much practices the same strategy. Am I missing anything? Am I supposed to train via Ladder or custom games? How do I get to train vs these drops and repetitively practice to counter it? Is there a program or something? How do pros do it?Spartan5
Jun 7

Jun 7
Responding to Terran push?
http://drop.sc/replay/4955009 So, this happened a few days ago. It was the last round in a 3-round Silver Tournament. I had just come out of a tense match against a different terran player. This guy pushed out much faster than I expected him to. Now, you guys don't have to tell me; I was a moron for how I handled the situation you'll see in the replay. The proxy was probably a bad idea to begin with. I already know. lol I want to know, though; what would have been the correct response to the situation I found myself in? How could I have gotten myself out of that mess, if I even could? How could I have done better?Akamia3
Jun 7

Jun 7
Bronze to Master in 32 games
Oracle is OP. I did a test run from Bronze to Master 3. Every. Single. Game, I opened up with a 5:07 - 5:11 Oracle. Not proxied. The only time it was ever stopped was when Terrans went for a blind turret. Even went up against a GM Zerg that fully scouted it and wasn't able to properly hold it, and I ended up finishing that game after 35 minutes with a cloud of 40 Oracles melting his base in a painfully one-sided base race. That was the game that got me into Master. I held 6 pools. I held 10 pools. I held stim timings. I held strong midgame comps. Muta harass. Maxed out roach pushes. Widows in the mineral line. Oracles are unstoppable if used correctly.HeroicSCV4
Jun 7

Jun 4
pvt early aggression
A good way to cut down early Terran aggression is to go for a start of two gate ways thereafter a cybernetics Core push for 4 to 6 zealots when cybernetics Core ready go twilight counsel upgrade charge create about 4 to 6 stalkers then at this time you should have second and maybe third base keep pushing out zealots until about 16 to 24 this should cut down early marine and marauder aggression a good point to add is to build a darkshrine during the period of zealots being created use one at a time to take up there sonar sweep until they have used up on some occasions all with that about 4 darktemplar used up you still have 4 left considering you created 8 this should annoy and cut down early Terran aggression. sweet!paulvipond4
Jun 4

May 31
Do psi storms "stack?"
Does anyone know if damage from psi storms stack? In other words, if I cast psi storm on an area, and then immediately cast ANOTHER psi storm on the same area, do units in that area take the full damage of BOTH psi storms? Or do they just take the normal psi storm damage for the duration of the two storms?Creslin7
May 31

May 29
Charge ~ Did I miss something?
So earlier this week or maybe last week now, I forget exactly when the new patch and season came out. Before that though, I had been hearing so much talk about reduction of the charge cost for zealots. did this not happen? During the download I was on the worst wifi ever by accident and unable to test the new maps and patch and all that. Now this morning I'm seeing its still 200/200 for the upgrade. Is this correct?Jericho4
May 29

May 26
The Conclave
Could anyone give me any information on the concalve, judicators, daleam, purifiers or the beginning of the protoss race? I am doing a project on these subjects. Pleace reply any links or information you have. Than you! <3 :)steele6
May 26

May 25
Planetary Rush?
How do you stop this? replay linked, not sure what I was supposed to do... http://drop.sc/replay/4885276Killawattz8
May 25

May 24
How do you counter cyclone
How to counter cyclons as toss?jakehfgd7
May 24

May 22
Who is the Best Protoss Player in the World?
Who is the best player do you think? Who is your favorite? i dont know who the best is but my favorite is WhiteRa. Hes def. not the best but hes pretty awesome!Shuriken197
May 22