POFO Anything Goes Thread. ((Warning do not enter if you can't handle fire))

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I don't think it's necessarily a sudden "Today's Wednesday, I like dudes now" type choice or even a conscious choice. I think events in your life or environmental stuff could push someone in that direction without them necessarily realizing it. If it happened at an early enough age, maybe you start thinking you were born that way.

Well think about it like this, why isn't the reverse true? Why doesn't anyone attribute environmental factors or events in their life to being attracted to women? The implication to your theory is that everyone is born straight (man and women), and something traumatic in their upbringing must've happened to about 10+ percent of the population to turn them gay? I just can't buy that.

Originally Posted by Valandui

All that aside, does it really matter if someone accepts the practice if they feel that the people have the right to do whatever they want in that regard?

Walrus already touched on it a bit, but I do think it's hurtful to a lot of people. Especially a lot of gay Christians.

Originally Posted by Valandui

I just don't think they're the same thing. You can't hide your race. They couldn't avoid persecution in that situation. No one is going to know someone is gay unless they make it known.

Don't you think you're kind of asking a lot? You want someone to hide their true identity unless it's behind closed doors for the rest of their life because, what, you think they're icky?

Well think about it like this, why isn't the reverse true? Why doesn't anyone attribute environmental factors or events in their life to being attracted to women? The implication to your theory is that everyone is born straight (man and women), and something traumatic in their upbringing must've happened to about 10+ percent of the population to turn them gay? I just can't buy that.

Walrus already touched on it a bit, but I do think it's hurtful to a lot of people. Especially a lot of gay Christians.

Don't you think you're kind of asking a lot? You want someone to hide their true identity unless it's behind closed doors for the rest of their life because, what, you think they're icky?

I didn't mean it like that. I just meant it isn't the same level of persecution as blatant racism. I made it pretty clear earlier that I honestly don't care what people do with their own lives. Just because I don't agree with something that people are doing doesn't mean they don't have the right to do it. I don't agree with drug use but people are free to do that. It isn't my life to live or decision to make.

I didn't mean it like that. I just meant it isn't the same level of persecution as blatant racism. I made it pretty clear earlier that I honestly don't care what people do with their own lives. Just because I don't agree with something that people are doing doesn't mean they don't have the right to do it. I don't agree with drug use but people are free to do that. It isn't my life to live or decision to make.

I'm not sure how it's much different than racism. It's still treating someone differently based on a factor that is out of their control. You say race is more identifiable, and it of course is, but I don't agree with the notion that no one would know someone is gay unless that person made it known. There are several gay dudes at the store I work at. Not one of them has ever expressly stated, or even hinted at their sexual orientation to me, but everyone and their mother knows those dudes are as gay as the day is long. It's the way they talk, it's in their mannerisms, the way they dress, etc. They aren't over-the-top or obnoxious, either. So, my point being, that I would feel absolutely awful if my presence made someone feel compelled to change the way they felt most comfortable behaving. I would hate for one of those dudes to have to suppress their mannerisms or manufacture an unnatural way of speaking just so they could appear a certain way.

I'm not sure how it's much different than racism. It's still treating someone differently based on a factor that is out of their control. You say race is more identifiable, and it of course is, but I don't agree with the notion that no one would know someone is gay unless that person made it known. There are several gay dudes at the store I work at. Not one of them has ever expressly stated, or even hinted at their sexual orientation to me, but everyone and their mother knows those dudes are as gay as the day is long. It's the way they talk, it's in their mannerisms, the way they dress, etc. They aren't over-the-top or obnoxious, either. So, my point being, that I would feel absolutely awful if my presence made someone feel compelled to change the way they felt most comfortable behaving. I would hate for one of those dudes to have to suppress their mannerisms or manufacture an unnatural way of speaking just so they could appear a certain way.

I wasn't even saying people should suppress their behavior. Again, I really don't care what people do. I just meant that they could hide it if they wanted to. You can't really do the same thing with your skin color.

I think there is a gay "spectrum", some men choose to have gay sex with other men because they've been locked up for 30 years and its the only hole around and other men are born with an innate desire to procreate with men, because that is just how they were wired. And everything in between. To me, whether a person is born gay or not shouldn't matter in the least and doesn't belong in the debate of whether gays should be shunned or not.

I wasn't even saying people should suppress their behavior. Again, I really don't care what people do. I just meant that they could hide it if they wanted to. You can't really do the same thing with your skin color.

I probably should ask for clarification on what you meant when you said 'it isn't the same level of persecution as blatant racism'. If we're talking historically (which I think you might be based on your "they can hide it" comment), then sure, as a whole the byproducts of racism have probably been more devastating than the collective byproducts of homophobia. However, if we're having the discussion about whether, in general, racism is "worse" than homophobia, then I would disagree with that premise. I wouldn't rank homophobia a 'level' below racism, or anything like that. To me, that seems like something someone would tell themselves to feel better.

Also, if you somehow got the impression that I thought you did care, that wasn't my design. The degree to which you care about this stuff doesn't really matter to me. I was, however, genuinely interested in having the discussion about your beliefs on this issue, so no need to pull a Bill on me and get defensive

It's cool man. I was honestly half-asleep typing that due to dealing with unrelated BS, so it might have come off more confrontational than intended.

Originally Posted by rob19

I probably should ask for clarification on what you meant when you said 'it isn't the same level of persecution as blatant racism'. If we're talking historically (which I think you might be based on your "they can hide it" comment), then sure, as a whole the byproducts of racism have probably been more devastating than the collective byproducts of homophobia. However, if we're having the discussion about whether, in general, racism is "worse" than homophobia, then I would disagree with that premise. I wouldn't rank homophobia a 'level' below racism, or anything like that. To me, that seems like something someone would tell themselves to feel better.

Also, if you somehow got the impression that I thought you did care, that wasn't my design. The degree to which you care about this stuff doesn't really matter to me. I was, however, genuinely interested in having the discussion about your beliefs on this issue, so no need to pull a Bill on me and get defensive