Ok, well, we have Hutchinson passing Thrawl st. and meeting up with Kelly "about 2:00 am".

- 2:00-2:15 (approx).
Hutch see's Astrachan approach Kelly.
Sarah Lewis passed the Britannia on the corner and noticed another man & woman standing talking outside the Britannia.
Hutch stands still outside the Queens Head pub, the Kelly & Astrachan pass him, then cross the road to Dorset St., Hutch waits at the corner of Dorset St., while Kelly & Astrachan walk towards Millers Court.
Sarah Lewis is following some distance behind them on the same side of the road, they walk further on ahead of her.
Then Hutchinson walks down the south side(?) of Dorset St. to stand opposite Millers Court, as Kelly and Astrachan enter the passage.

- about 2:15 Sarah Lewis arrives at Millers Court and also enters the passage.
- Lewis noticed a man standing on the south side, opposite Millers Court, as she enters the passage - he is looking up the passage.
- Lewis walks up the passage to room No. 2, and noticed the couple are not in view - there is no-one in the court (meaning they must have gone indoors?).
Lewis is there at No.2 when the clock strikes 2:30.

2:15 - 3:00 am.
Hutchinson waits in Dorset St., at some point he walks across the road and up the passage to stand outside Kelly's room - listening. Then returns to the street to take up his position again out in Dorset St. and waits until "about" 3:00, when he leaves.

"About" 3:00.
- Mrs Kennedy arrives at the Britannia, on the corner of Comm. St. & Dorset St., where she saw Kelly & another man & woman standing talking.
Kennedy walks on passed, down Dorset St. and enters room No.2, Millers Court.

All times can be adjusted a few minutes either way as none of the witnesses had watches, and all seem to be relying on the chimes of the Spitalfields Clock. All their times seem to be estimates except where noted otherwise.

I don’t even know why I bother but i guess it’s because I’m tired of you misleading everyone, especially noobs who might not know better. And love how you just skip right over the logistical impossibility of your scenario.

So for the sake of truth I’ll just say ONE MORE time. Hutch watches them from the corner of Dorset street while they linger for about “three minutes” at the entrance of millers court before going in. He then goes and takes his position as waiting watching man, at which point Lewis appears, sees him there, as she then goes into millers court.

So unless she has superhuman vision and can see incredible distances and through buildings it is impossible that she could have seen Mary and Aman pass up the court, as they had already done so way before she arrived.

And just for the record and everyone is clear, wicker mans theory involves the ripper being a well dressed man, and therefore hutch has to be telling the truth about Aman, as it bolsters his theory. And anything that bolsters hutch telling the truth, No matter how ludicrous, or obviously erroneous must be defended at all costs.

It’s the problem with posters on here with well developed legendariums. The truth gets twisted, obscured and pounded into oblivion as they try to fit the facts with there pre conceived theory world.

__________________"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"
-Edgar Allan Poe

"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."
-Frederick G. Abberline

No, I won't cherry-pick one source. Instead, I'll take an overview of all the sources, and I'll throw in a dash of logistics based on the geography and street-plan for good measure. From that, it's possible to deduce a feasible sequence of events (irrespective of the sequence in which things got written up in witness statements etc) based on a survey of ALL the sources. From this, the most likely scenario is that Lewis, as she was about to enter Miller's Court, saw a man wearing a wideawake hat outside the doorway of Crossingham's (on the opposite side of Dorset Street to Miller's Court), whilst at much the same time spotting a couple further on in Dorset Street.

Ok, so you do agree Lewis walked down Dorset St., and you seem to agree this couple was also in Dorset St.
So, in your view, was this couple walking ahead of Lewis - between Lewis and Millers Court, or, were they beyond Millers Court?
And, what is written in Lewis's story to indicate your conclusion?

Quote:

Simples.
Correct, because two separate women randomly deciding to up sticks and crash out in 2 Miller's Court and witnessing broadly similar events on the same night, would be an absurd coincidence. And so it is.

I like how you brush over the significant differences in their stories by saying "broadly similar" - that's amusing, and it is your Achilles Heel, betraying the fact you admit their stories are not the same.

So for the sake of truth I’ll just say ONE MORE time. Hutch watches them from the corner of Dorset street while they linger for about “three minutes” at the entrance of millers court before going in. He then goes and takes his position as waiting watching man, at which point Lewis appears, sees him there, as she then goes into millers court.

I hi-lited the "three minutes" because you seem to assume this would be too long, yet as he didn't wear a watch, why would you make it an point of debate?
Clearly, as he had no watch he is estimating. So beyond the fact they stopped or paused before entering, the suggested time has no value.

Your second point, "at which point Lewis appeared", is based on what?
Hutchinson does not mention Lewis, but he doesn't have to.
And, as Lewis did see this couple ahead of her then Lewis was already in Dorset St - so she didn't "appear" after they entered the court, she was in Dorset St. before they entered the court.

Your objections are each based on a false premise.

Quote:

And just for the record and everyone is clear, wicker mans theory involves the ripper being a well dressed man, and therefore hutch has to be telling the truth about Aman, as it bolsters his theory. And anything that bolsters hutch telling the truth, No matter how ludicrous, or obviously erroneous must be defended at all costs.

Once again, you are completely WRONG.
Wickerman does not believe Astrachan was the murderer - re-think your argument.
I wouldn't be so adamant about the existence of Kennedy, and her seeing Kelly out on the street at "about 3:00 am", if Astrachan was the murderer - surely you could have figured that out, if you stopped to think for a moment.

My 'suspect' has always been the Britannia-man, if anyone.
What has the Britannia-man to do with Hutchinson's story?, nothing that I can see.
Have you been barking up the wrong tree all these years?

Maybe you shouldn't be so intent on criticizing other posters until you understand their point of view.

I hi-lited the "three minutes" because you seem to assume this would be too long, yet as he didn't wear a watch, why would you make it an point of debate?
Clearly, as he had no watch he is estimating. So beyond the fact they stopped or paused before entering, the suggested time has no value.

Your second point, "at which point Lewis appeared", is based on what?
Hutchinson does not mention Lewis, but he doesn't have to.
And, as Lewis did see this couple ahead of her then Lewis was already in Dorset St - so she didn't "appear" after they entered the court, she was in Dorset St. before they entered the court.

Your objections are each based on a false premise.

Once again, you are completely WRONG.
Wickerman does not believe Astrachan was the murderer - re-think your argument.
I wouldn't be so adamant about the existence of Kennedy, and her seeing Kelly out on the street at "about 3:00 am", if Astrachan was the murderer - surely you could have figured that out, if you stopped to think for a moment.

My 'suspect' has always been the Britannia-man, if anyone.
What has the Britannia-man to do with Hutchinson's story?, nothing that I can see.
Have you been barking up the wrong tree all these years?

Maybe you shouldn't be so intent on criticizing other posters until you understand their point of view.

wicker

Quote:

I hi-lited the "three minutes" because you seem to assume this would be too long, yet as he didn't wear a watch, why would you make it an point of debate?
Clearly, as he had no watch he is estimating. So beyond the fact they stopped or paused before entering, the suggested time has no value.

Your second point, "at which point Lewis appeared", is based on what?
Hutchinson does not mention Lewis, but he doesn't have to.
And, as Lewis did see this couple ahead of her then Lewis was already in Dorset St - so she didn't "appear" after they entered the court, she was in Dorset St. before they entered the court.

Your objections are each based on a false premise.

yeah-yours. I don't know if your being deliberately obtuse or obstinate or what but ill spell it out for you ONE MORE TIME before I give up and am done with this silliness.

Quote:

she was in Dorset St. before they entered the court.

she couldn't have been because Hutchinson stood at the corner of dorset st while tMary and Aman lingered in the entrance to millers court before they went in the court to marys room. He then went and took his place as waiting watching man-waiting to see if they came out again. Sarah lewis then arrives in dorset st heading for millers court which before she enters spots hutch in his position. Mary and Aman are already long gone from entering millers court and are in her room.

so clearly Lewis couldn't have been in dorset st before Mary and Aman entered the court nor seen them "pass up the court".

for gods sake give it up man.

Quote:

Once again, you are completely WRONG.
Wickerman does not believe Astrachan was the murderer - re-think your argument.
I wouldn't be so adamant about the existence of Kennedy, and her seeing Kelly out on the street at "about 3:00 am", if Astrachan was the murderer - surely you could have figured that out, if you stopped to think for a moment.

The phantom Kennedy appears. LOL! so mary goes out again(?!?) after bringing Aman to her room and is seen by the phantom twin kennedy now with Britannia man? the ridicoulousness never ends with you. Id stick with aman being her killer over this nonsense.

Quote:

My 'suspect' has always been the Britannia-man, if anyone.
What has the Britannia-man to do with Hutchinson's story?, nothing that I can see.
Have you been barking up the wrong tree all these years?

Maybe you shouldn't be so intent on criticizing other posters until you understand their point of view.

[/quote]

If I don't understand your view its because your view is so convoluted and confusing you need a PHD in tea leave reading to figure it out. Mind reading too, because this is the first time you've ever mentioned Britannia man as a suspect.

You might as well say Britannia man was also Aman it would actually make about as much sense. But Ill give you this-you deserve a gold metal in mental gymnastics.

I'm done with this nonsense-Ive spent enough time in your nutty legendarium.

__________________"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"
-Edgar Allan Poe

"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."
-Frederick G. Abberline

It's possible, or he was a client.Per inquest nobody was in the court - Cox came at 3 am,so something caught the man's attention per Lewis 'standing in the street was looking up the court as if waiting for someone to come out',possible but less likely.Most likely to me was he was up to no good.Will leave it at that.

The witnesses inside Miller's court were asleep or trying to,nobody was expecting anybody.Lewis did not hear/see anything of note inside Miller's court.
The lurking man knew somebody was in Miller's court who he was trying to contact again,waiting means prior contact,Kelly was the only resident with a prior meeting,that with Blotchy.

Good luck..Off for a while.

__________________
Clearly the first human laws (way older and already established) spawned organized religion's morality - from which it's writers only copied/stole,ex. you cannot kill,rob,steal (forced, otherwise people run back to the hills,no towns).
M. Pacana

Am I on the right house? I'm seeing the Victorian Home where Hutchinson was staying at as being on the corner of Commercial and Wentworth? On the map I'm looking at, its called The Victorian Workingmen's Home (or something close, tough to read since its so small), is this correct? If so, it's really that close to Goulston St.?

Thanks Sam! I thought it most likely was but now Im sure, much appreciated. Wow, I've never really given Hutch much thought about being a possible JTR suspect besides the strange, unbelievably detailed description he gave of A-Man. I don't know why I had always thought before that he was living somewhere outside of Whitechapel?? but in reality he was living right smack dab in the heart of Ripper territory! Which of course so was 10,000 other people at that time and on the surface it doesn't mean a thing, except when you start putting things together. And in which case he does, IMO, definitely deserve to be on the suspect list. Its been discussed and argued for quite some time about where The Ripper went after Mitre Square (if PC Long was correct that the apron and the chalk was NOT in the doorway when he made his previous passes) for an hour or so before coming back to Goulston St. to drop the cloth and write his message. If it was Hutchinson who killed Eddowes and most likely the rest of the Whitechapel vic's (and I'm definitely not saying that Hutch was absolutely JTR, in fact if I'm probably more inclined to believe that he WASNT... so far at least, but he now absolutely has my undivided attention) he wouldn't of had too far to go from his residence back to Goulston St and back home again. I mean its literally right around the corner! Maybe a 40-50 second walk, if that even. Strange...