Seeing how everyone says different classes when they say "I will always gives it to class x PERIOD!!!" and everyone fears "we will be pigeonholed into giving it to class x (((((( " , it already tells me this is a great spell giving a lot of different gameplay choices. I can think lots and lots of ways to use it, almost every fight will have different aspects to make me change the class I give it to.

Seeing how everyone says different classes when they say "I will always gives it to class x PERIOD!!!" and everyone fears "we will be pigeonholed into giving it to class x (((((( " , it already tells me this is a great spell giving a lot of different gameplay choices. I can think lots and lots of ways to use it, almost every fight will have different aspects to make me change the class I give it to.

Not really, for a balance druid in a pve enviroment there is only one class to give it to. Warrior. Ofc it will be much more versatile in pvp.

Honestly I am kind of hoping they remove reck from balance symbiosis. If we can get it in raids we will be balanced around it, and I would much rather be competitive without it and get to pick a random utility spell that might help out in each encounter. Same for ferals and unholy frenzy.

Actually now that I think about it I really wonder what they intend for it. Both feral and balance have one since choice for competitive dps, which will obviously mean they won't perform to their potential if they don't get it. Which means that you wont get to pick any of the neat utility abilities, and if the class that gives you your cooldown isn't around in your raid you will not do competitive dps.

And finally it means that if you are pushing hardmode progression and need to put it on a healer for the extra tranq, well suddenly your dps is going to be suboptimal. Which seems weird, nerfing your dps in order to increase someone elses heals feels like going back to the old days where you just brought classes for buffs. I dunno, I hope the ability will go through a few changes before release at any rate.

Honestly I am kind of hoping they remove reck from balance symbiosis. If we can get it in raids we will be balanced around it, and I would much rather be competitive without it and get to pick a random utility spell that might help out in each encounter. Same for ferals and unholy frenzy.

Actually now that I think about it I really wonder what they intend for it. Both feral and balance have one since choice for competitive dps, which will obviously mean they won't perform to their potential if they don't get it. Which means that you wont get to pick any of the neat utility abilities, and if the class that gives you your cooldown isn't around in your raid you will not do competitive dps.

And finally it means that if you are pushing hardmode progression and need to put it on a healer for the extra tranq, well suddenly your dps is going to be suboptimal. Which seems weird, nerfing your dps in order to increase someone elses heals feels like going back to the old days where you just brought classes for buffs. I dunno, I hope the ability will go through a few changes before release at any rate.

Reck for owls wont be a big deal tbh; our best option, but only due to lack of others. We don't exactly have the burst dps to make it a major thing for us. I can't see them correctly balancing the ability though, seems like a complete nightmare.....They couldn't even properly balance DI.

Not really, for a balance druid in a pve enviroment there is only one class to give it to. Warrior. Ofc it will be much more versatile in pvp.

Yup, Symbiosis for balance sucks.
In pvp it is not so versatile, because instead to have a clean choice between invulnerability/survavility/burstdps/utility like the feral, you can only choose between utility. And as moonkin you already have utility, what you really need is more or less the rest

Honestly I am kind of hoping they remove reck from balance symbiosis. If we can get it in raids we will be balanced around it, and I would much rather be competitive without it and get to pick a random utility spell that might help out in each encounter. Same for ferals and unholy frenzy.

This I am definitely worried about. Also, if the Warrior in question is not a Prot Warrior (in other words, they are DPS) I don't know how they'd feel about losing Recklessness only to get a rage-building cooldown. Recklessness is very good for warriors too and I don't think they'll be very happy losing it. Same goes for Unholy DKs and Unholy Frenzy.

Also, don't kid yourself - after an entire expansion being balanced around DI on my Shadow Priest, Symbiosis will be factored into balance, so if you are tired of Priests whining for DI just wait for MoP and Druids looking for Prot warriors and Frost/Blood DKs.

This I am definitely worried about. Also, if the Warrior in question is not a Prot Warrior (in other words, they are DPS) I don't know how they'd feel about losing Recklessness only to get a rage-building cooldown. Recklessness is very good for warriors too and I don't think they'll be very happy losing it. Same goes for Unholy DKs and Unholy Frenzy.

Otherwise, the ability sounds great in general.

The recipients of symbiosis does not lose the ability that the druid gains, they just gain a new ability from the druid. FFS why is this so hard for people to understand? It's been discussed in this thread multiple times....

The recipients of symbiosis does not lose the ability that the druid gains, they just gain a new ability from the druid. FFS why is this so hard for people to understand? It's been discussed in this thread multiple times....

The point still stands that DPS Druids will be balanced around having a DK or a Warrior in their raids. Balance Druids will not be able to do their maximum DPS unless there is a Warlock and a Warrior in every raid (for DI). Recklessness is probably too powerful for Balance (and UF is too powerful for Feral).

The point still stands that DPS Druids will be balanced around having a DK or a Warrior in their raids. Balance Druids will not be able to do their maximum DPS unless there is a Warlock and a Warrior in every raid (for DI). Recklessness is probably too powerful for Balance (and UF is too powerful for Feral).

DI is being removed in MoP so no. You shouldn't post before reading up. And recklessness isn't half as powerful for balance as UF is for feral.

DI is being removed in MoP so no. You shouldn't post before reading up. And recklessness isn't half as powerful for balance as UF is for feral.

DI is still on the talent calculator and I've seen nothing in blue saying DI is getting removed. It is quite possible I missed that, though.

Recklessness is really good if you can pair it up with another cooldown as a warrior, like bladestorm. I'd think it'd be pretty nice to have at the start of a lunar eclipse, combined with a starfall and any other CDs you might have for some big starfire crits, or possibly going the other way. It may not be game changing but it could be a nice increase, especially on any fight with a damage buff like Zon'ozz or Hagara.

It may not seem like much, but it has always been really nice as a warrior. Warriors get a lot more out of crit than a Balance Druid, though so it remains to be seen how good it will be. Idk about UF for Feral; I'm not as familiar with DKs or Ferals.

Symbiosis - well, it'd be nice to have more than one DPS option as a balance druid (not counting Mirror Images which aren't really significant damage). Perhaps we'll get a snazzy CD from Monks once their Symbiosis abilities are implemented.

Reck for owls wont be a big deal tbh; our best option, but only due to lack of others. We don't exactly have the burst dps to make it a major thing for us. I can't see them correctly balancing the ability though, seems like a complete nightmare.....They couldn't even properly balance DI.

We are getting burst DPS with Lunar Eclipse + Starfall + Celestial Alignment + Starfall. That's about 30s of sustained nukage. Especially if you throw in Incarnation in there.

Boomkins are finally getting some actual timed DPS cooldowns. It won't just be potions and starfall anymore for us.

What I'm most scared about is Blizzard trying to factor in the damage gained by our symbiotic friend against us. Logically you'd think they would do no such thing, but in reality we're providing our own DPS in addition to the DPS that we add to our Symbiosis target. It would be foolish for raid leaders to not consider that when bringing us and there may be a lot of instances where because of this druids outshine all other members in the group. In order to balance this they would have to lower our damage output so all of our damage on top anything we can give out will put us in line with other classes.

If all classes did 100k DPS and on average the buff we gave out did a 5% overall damage increase throughout the fight then Boomkins would be 105k DPS which is more than other classes even though that extra 5k is going toward someone elses numbers. We'll see how they balance everything out.

Notice you swapped Cyclone and Tranquility for Priests, giving Tranquility to shadow only. What lead you to that?

It would balance things a bit more though.

---------- Post added 2012-03-25 at 08:50 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Clawtrocity

Boomkins are finally getting some actual timed DPS cooldowns. It won't just be potions and starfall anymore for us.

What I'm most scared about is Blizzard trying to factor in the damage gained by our symbiotic friend against us. Logically you'd think they would do no such thing, but in reality we're providing our own DPS in addition to the DPS that we add to our Symbiosis target. It would be foolish for raid leaders to not consider that when bringing us and there may be a lot of instances where because of this druids outshine all other members in the group. In order to balance this they would have to lower our damage output so all of our damage on top anything we can give out will put us in line with other classes.

If all classes did 100k DPS and on average the buff we gave out did a 5% overall damage increase throughout the fight then Boomkins would be 105k DPS which is more than other classes even though that extra 5k is going toward someone elses numbers. We'll see how they balance everything out.

I think the buffs that we give to other classes should be more utility like then damage buffs. Sure, warriors are getting Enrage, but in the grand scheme of things I don't think that's a HUGE DPS buff. By keeping the buffs we give the other classes more utility, it will keep us from being pigeonholed into giving it to a certain class, and will not run into the problem you suggest above.