I'm not pissed off, but I am getting tired of your borderline trolling and wild inductive leaps. You offer no discernible firsthand knowledge of the subject, and disagree with the premise to begin with. If ever there were a place to recuse oneself, this would be it.

For you to say that building and maintaining a base full of survival equipment and food stockpiles is not endgame survival behavior is simply obstinate and dishonest. There is no way around this conclusion, aside from your avoiding a large portion of the game by choice, as you constantly advocate.

Basicallly, I think you talk way too much about something of which you have little to no contemporary firsthand knowledge from which to draw your opinions. YOU DON'T BUILD BASES. How would you know if they effectively serve a purpose, if you disavow that purpose in the first place?

So what if a borderline illiterate complains about base rape? A big part of this game is git guud, and accepting loss and moving on. Every base will eventually be discovered and despawned, and that is no reason to not try. If you get good at it, you can set up a new base before they even have time to finish destroying the old one.
Remember, what is the point of finding a base, if you won't be on 24/7 to grief it? Raiders have to work and sleep too...

There are basically 3 philosophies to basebuilding.
First, there is the low pop public server used for amassing a stockpile of military gear to use for public hive interdimensional extermination missions. These bases are generally large, somehwat hidden, and rely on the safety of nobody using the server except to hop military bases; they generally last a good while.
These bases are viable both for individuals and groups, as being a needle in the metaphorical haystack of relatively empty servers.

Second, are the scattered tents, gate-secured industrial buildings, and other reasonably secure bases that may or may not last a few weeks undisturbed on a higher pop server. These work on the eggs-in-baskets principle, in which each one is seen as disposable, as the maintaining of the network is what sustains the long term support of playstyle.
This gives players motivation to keep moving around the map, and creates the opportunity to monitor other players' behavior over a larger area of the map over time. Knowing which bases get found within a certain timeframe generates useful data on where to look of other players' bases.

The third option is for a large group of players to collaborate on a large permanent or semi-permanent base on a high population server. This is by far the most difficult to maintain, and requires a separate network of stashes from which to regear in the event that the base needs to be recaptured. These bases can change hands multiple times over the course of a single day, and require constant maintenance. At a certain point, knowledge of the base among the server population will force a move; in which time it is helpful to keep up the appearance of maintaining the original base for as long as possible to keep focus away from the new location.

For the vast majority of the playerbase, bases provide something to do other than skulk around looking for people to kill. And for those that want a challenge greater than camping a treeline outside a POI and shooting unsuspecting passers-by, they can choose to raid a base, not knowing if anyone is inside, or if the owner will show up while they are still there.

Of course none of this matters if your goal is simply to survive as long as possible and avoid interaction. Which brings me to the point of my response... Do you actually have anything of value to add to this discussion?

Edit: As an addition to the utility of bases, comes the principle of mutually assured destruction. If your base keeps getting discovered and raided, you can search the surrounding areas until you find a base. Place certain guns in certain attachment configurations in your tents, and then go check the other base for the same weapons after they go missing. In the absence of notes, you can use the inventory matrix to create pixel art messages with single stack items; put an identical marker in both your base, and the discovered base. Over time, you may monitor each base for changes in inventory, and discern the playtime of the rival base owner.
In a number of cases, I have actually met the owners of other bases and came to an agreement to respect each others' bases. Replacing a rifle with a full block of cooked meat is a convenient way to save yourself a run to a different region, while also showing respect to the owner of the borrowed item.
Knowing other players on your server also allows for the sharing of information if your bases get raided by a third party. Under the premise of long term sustained survival of an enterprise, as opposed to an individual player life cycle, cooperation yields a net benefit.

Link to post

Share on other sites

@pilgrim* I believe I answered the question as to what is what the purpose of basebuilding is. The tangential discussion about endgame definitions is less productive as it is maybe subjective based on players' motivations.

From an objective standpoint, one could define endgame as the highest degree of complexity allowed by the systems in the game. And by this definition, having a network of bases and vehicles to service their maintenance would undoubtedly be an endgame loop.

The purpose of a watchtower when you log out is a much sillier question that does not merit an answer. But I'll humor you. It has the same as the purpose of a rifle, or anything else while you are logged out; something to use when you log back in.
You might log back in to find your tower dismantled, just the same as you might log back in to catch a bullet in your back. In either case, neither has done you any good.

What is the purpose of discussing the utility of a spatchcocking a chicken, if you are a vegan? Trolling? All indications point to yes.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

define endgame as the highest degree of complexity allowed by the systems in the game﻿. And by this definition, having a network of bases﻿

1 hour ago, emuthreat said:

The purpose of a watchtower when you log out is ..//..something to use when you log back in.

- So "endgame" = basebuilding .. thanks for the answer at last, I wondered what "endgame" meant, I've never seen any meaning in it - So now "basebuilding" gives "engame" a meaning.. great - If I said Rust was a PvP PvE Basebuilding Game, no one would object, would they ? - so is that the way DayZ is trending in it's vanilla version ?
- When you log back in, your watchtower won't be there anymore ( unless you play a whitelist server ) - I have this info from reading ALL Xbox players who comment, and a large number of PC players. And p.s. don't ever climb up your watchtower when someone is shooting at you.

@Parazight seems to have the sanest attitude to basebuilding AND endgame - he doesn't say a lot but you should perhaps read his comments with more care ?

- and read mine (for once) before your next illuminati rant (the Divine Emu Revelation of the Meaning of DayZ ) - I am interested in the TECHNICAL equilibrium of game components and game function and playability
and I have NOT noticed a LOT of satisfaction with "basebuilding"
- do the research yourself..It seems that all Xbox and most PC most players are not satisfied, very dissatisfied, indifferent, or want radical changes in "basebuilding".

I wondered where that might lead.. what KIND of game is developing here?

now why don't we BOTH drop out of this thread, hmm ?

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

I've stated before that basebuilding needs balance in terms of the effort required to destroy bases, in relation to the amount of effort required to build them. And I think that issue is at the heart of this thread.

Nice job on referring me to a nihilistic approach as the true meaning of DayZ, rather than discussing the issues at hand.

The biggest issue DayZ has, is the problem of balancing the prevalent tendency of the playerbase at large to destroy anything they see, just for the schadenfreude. Maybe some people call it sabotaging the competition, but if we are being honest, most who grief bases wouldn't waste their time building their own.

The problem with basebuilding is that people are generally shitty, and would prefer destroying everything they find; and that the basebuilding mechanics overwhelmingly support this behavior. The developers are so afraid of having the appearance of impenetrable fortresses, that they have hamstrung a significant portion of the game.

Please reference Wheaton's Law, and check yourself.

1 hour ago, pilgrim* said:

(the Divine Emu Revelation of the Meaning of ﻿DayZ )﻿

^^^As this above statement is a good way to invite conflict.^^^

While my criticism of your qualifications and core values not relating to the discussion was at least a relevant analysis, this is just getting antagonistic. 4/5 dentists agree, you probably were asking for it.

Edited February 25 by emuthreat

1

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Endgame. Isn't that where you're suppose fight a big ass boss in an epic encounter but it's actually extremely unfulfilling as the end boss is rather easy and then credits start rolling afterwards? Then the game asks you to buy some dlc to extend the endgame after you already shelled out 60 bones for 15 hours of game time

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Thing is right now very few actually bothers with the basebuilding/ car repairing "endgame". If only a tiny % bothers with it, then something is poorly designed.

Or you know, that isn't the end game goal. Just things to do while surviving in a harsh apocalyptic world. For some, fishing and hunting could be their endgame. For others it's hunting people down but at the end of the day, DayZ is a sandbox and there is no endgame. Your game ends when you're dead and starting from scratch.

Link to post

Share on other sites

My only problem with this thread is = ENDGAME = .. what the hell is that ?

End game is when u reach the end of the game, uve done almost everything u can do in the game. Concept is not that hard to understand. In dayz u reach end game when ur geared up, got a full belly, have explored the map, maybe even built a base of some kind. Again not that hard to understand this concept.

Peoples problem with the end game concept in a game like Dayz probaly stems from the fact that its not 100% clear when u reach end game, the definition of end game will always have to be defined in a broad sense. But there is a end game....just like there is a....bambie game.

Edited February 26 by svisketyggeren

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Or you know, that isn't the end game goal. Just things to do while surviving in a harsh apocalyptic world. For some, fishing and hunting could be their endgame. For others it's hunting people down but at the end of the day, DayZ is a sandbox and there is no endgame. Your game ends when you're dead and starting from scratch.

Yes you need things to do. But if lets say hunting required you to sit and wait hours for a deer and then you need to gut the animals for one hour. Also if unlucky your character just expload and die when he try to gut the deer( because DayZ) . If you by any chance manage to gut it. You then get rewarded with one single steak.

I'm sure some diehard DayZ hunter would do that shit. But 99.9% wouldn't bother. Then its a failed game mechanic when none does it. Ofc this is a extreme example but it can to some extent be applied to base building and car repair.

Base building and car repair could be so much better. Then you would have a solid option to just PVPing, cuz there isn't much else to do.

Share on other sites

The problem with the word "endgame" is: it is an answer or solution to a question.
In most games you get quest, and the player solves the quest after the task and is content to start the next quest. For many or most games with Quest, it's always the same pattern: when it's all done, then the game is done, you have nothing left to do .... and the game moves from the SSD to the hard drive to rest, the toughest players may play it again, with a higher level of difficulty, or collect the last missing trophies.

DayZ is different ..... it's like Skyrim with Onelife Principle and an Empty Quest Folder .... you as a player can / must or may your target create your quest, your way, actually everything SELF, basically with some FANTASY Quite simply, but in the present day fantasy is already a mammoth task for some people who unfortunately increase day by day.
A miracle that we can eat alone without a "request".

1

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

this is long - and "boring" - but if you are interested in @Evilsausage 's OP .. He makes a true serious point about where DayZ is going and HOW has it's direction changed. And the aim of the forum is exactly to give input and discuss THE GAME. So bear with me (or Naff Off, as you like.. heh)

OK : (are you sitting comfortably? )

If you look back through the forum for "endgame" you will find this argument has gone on for 5+ years.. Various (serious) players, one type of player, has lobbied for "bases" so they can have "endgame" for years. The idea of "endgame" is already fully fledged in their heads when they join the forum. << You can't have a survival game without an endgame>> <<where is the endgame? >> << the endgame has to be bases >> <<why is there no "endgame" ? >>

No one ever said camps, tents, vehicles, stashes or (in the old days) helicopters - were "endgame". That idea didn't last long, for some reason. Check out the posts -

So to get in line with more standard Achievement games - the idea and the WORD "endgame" became common and accepted, and maybe 3-4 years ago "bases" was linked directly to that concept :
= " you need endgame so you need bases "

Used to be that you could have a great camp with a couple of tents an truck for extra storage & mobility, and a helicopter - parked way out in the sticks, very difficult to find (before new towns and mil structures were scattered ALL OVER the wilderness) - people who wanted extensive CAMPS built them even before BASES became a concept.

The problem Now is that BASES don't work very well at all.. the best USE I've heard of for a walled enclosure is NOT defense, NOT "interdiction", NOT protection from weapon fire, not motor pool or meeting place, NOT eyecandy (perish the thought!) , not security ... The best use I've found in play (my experience) is just one solo player who planted a tent out in the woods and constructed a fence around it to keep wolves out: That makes sense.

The argument can go on forever. My BEEF is that if endgame (and the word IS USED commonly) means "BASES".. then the nature of DayZ is being changed, What DayZ is ABOUT is being changed, and new players are being SOLD a "base building game" because that is what street-word and youtube say you are supposed to do in DayZ.. just like it is what you are supposed to do in RUST, OK ? .. It ,is Designed FOR that. For me that's a mistake, a cheap (failed) crowd puller, it's underselling the game, its missing the special interest of DayZ and what DayZ was DESIGNED to be about .. it is taking DayZ in a new direction to IMITATE games that were originally COPIES and RIPOFFS of DayZ .. (AND new players spot that quickly.. listen to them here on the forums today)

This is ONLY my opinion, so don't please all jump down my throat for saying it. I am NOT trolling, I am NOT insulting anyone - play how you like - Emuthreat says "dont listen to the opinion of "little semi literate" new players.. but I respect those players as much as I respect @-Gews- or @Weyland Yutani or anyone who has been here for YEARS.. these new players start up and find ... WHAT exactly? that they have to get mil geared, get a car, build a base - and they think :

1) that is what the game is FOR - it's a base-building clan war game
2) the game works BADLY, sometimes VERY BADLY
3) It's a grind, unfair, full of Destructive Killer LoL Gangs, and its a waste of time to try to reach "endgame" because "endgame" is NON FUNCTIONAL

So .. destruction of the efforts of other new players is the only thing left that gives you a playable successful activity - true for 90% of players - so hell, Gear Up and KILL .. that's what the game is for.. right? (I mean IN REALITY that IS the play experience and that's what attracts MOST of the players who stay). No one is telling players DayZ is an unusual minority appeal game, open world, for people who have their own drives, ideas & directions, NOT provided easy AIMS.. and its dangerous and you won't live long.. that is not SAID anymore. - And when it is said in the Ads, many folk LAUGH, because it is not true.

The whole farming, survival, hunting, woodcraft, travel, adventure, expertise, aspects of the came are DISPARAGED .. because, face it, they have become TOO EASY or COMPLETELY NON EXISTENT ATM.. (personally I hope one day they will come back .. but it looks like the game is NOT going that way anymore?)

So my only question is - now that the original team and the original folk driving the DayZ Vison have LEFT.. which way is this game going with the newcomer devs (no insult intended at all). Where are we aiming exactly? Are bases just something added to the mod kit, eye-candy, not much use in practical gameplay, and poorly functional in the vanilla game, but PERHAPS the elements have been thrown in the carton because they COULD BE great for anyone who wants to MOD to make them work?

The only reason no one points out the weaknesses of bases here & now, and the POSSIBLE improvements to their VANILLA design and gameplay - is that almost everyone with TECHNICAL experience and PRACTICAL understanding of game construction has LEFT vanilla and gone away to make their own mods.. this leaves base building like a few bits of lego lying around in the vanilla game - like a kit of incomplete parts.

The argument and the push for an endgame went on for a LONG time - eventually bases turned up to end the argument : Bases in vanilla are a MESS

So we didn't even make it to RUST.. we fell short of our own imitation.

*.

And NO - @emuthreat, trying to survive, being mobile, backwoods, hidden, cautious, small group, individual, is NOT "nihilistic" - solo and backwoods play is not nihilistic, hidden tents, barrels, careful approach to interaction, awareness of LoLers, KoSers, Mil kitTeamspeak Buddies, Clans and Hoppers, is Survival
.. Im TOTALLY amazed somone with Emu's experience states openly that "a kid" with incorrect grammar ("semi literate") is not even worth hearing, & that a player like @Parazight is a "nihilist" ..

(sorry Parazite.. IMO Personally I thought you were one of the players, like @odin_lowe & others .. with maybe a little touch of Zen in your game ).

*

So - Are there any Suggestions on Future DayZ Development and focus to ATTRACT new players - anyone ?? In the far past - telling them they would only survive 15 minutes was the FIRST BIG CROWD PULLER, and that really worked!
What has done better than that, since then?

*

xxp - sorry to take up your time ( lol - I know I probably didn't )

For a "NEW" argument about endgame and bases (this is my IRONY) - look at << What do you do when you have the Best Gear? >> Posted May 2012

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

I think you are lost in the concept of purpose of the usage of a base, combined with the CoD playing style.

If you want to build bases to live in, are not you better of in Sim's?

If you want more ROI on your playing time investment, ist that the sign that your gratification level lies higher than DayZ offers you? With other words: dayz isnt the right game for you, what ever changes.

(Im playing since 0.51

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

I have my own server and me and my crew build bases and cars. We presently have four bases, one for each team member, and a working car in each base. The bases are spread around the map and everyone knows where they are off course, and we keep improving/changing them, adding stuff, moving walls etc. As for the car, the moment you built one up, building another takes half the time, and by now we have have supplies of all the parts needed to build one, so if a car gets lost/stolen, we just go get the parts and head off to a car spawn. The car is the one element in the game that will drastically change how you play it; the mobility and carrying capacity is amazing, and it also means that if a member of the team dies for some reason, the others go to fetch them where they spawn, bring them to a base and they are fed and fully kitted in half an hour. Neither the base building, nor the car building is designed to be accomplished by a solo person imo, it's a team thing, which again, in my opinion DAYZ is designed to be. In addition; with the latest update and the increase number and danger posed by the Infected, it's now very difficult to move around as a solo player. Bottom line for me: Certain elements in the game are designed to encourage team play.

(sorry Parazight.. IMO Personally I thought you were one of the players, .. with maybe a little touch of Zen in your game ).

So, I've played MMO's for quite some time now. I started basebuilding in open world pvp sandboxes when Ultima Online was released. It's not that I'm some sort of nihilist. I just realize that, like what emu was saying, that people are shitty in-game. Dean Hall's naive approach of creating a social experiment out of an ARMA mod is/was simply adorable. People are going to be shitty. There's no consequence AT ALL for anything in-game, so people will do the things that they can't get away with in real life, like wreck bases. (Who doesn't like to explore their inner antisocial personality disorder urges now and again?) What else does a person do in a big world with other players and ways to kill other players?

You've found a Drybag and a shovel. Congratulations. You've just reached the endgame. These are the tools to circumvent permadeath.

Honestly, base-building looks like it was added because modding is important to the project and the project depends on modders creating their own private, whitelisted world. No fault to BI and the devs, they have to square off directly with this problem that is way too big for them (or anyone) to handle. People griefing others has been around longer than any of us have been alive.