<quoted text>I understand the gay advocate self-interest in recruiting more homosexuals but I strongly oppose that recruitment.

No need to recruit. Hets give birth to a fresh batch of them every year. Who knows...even you may have a gay child. If one of your children or grandchildren invite you to their same sex marriage one day, will you be happy for them? Or will you be the grumpy old hater in the family?

<quoted text> Yeah! Probably from me.<quoted text>OH! You mean like when I write about naked, hot, hunky 18 year old men with their rippling muscles glistening under the sun? LOL!But seriously, what the hell are you rambling on about? You are burdened with homosexual desire since the age of 12. You felt it was wrong and prayed about it and asked God to change you.But God is not asking you to change.He is asking you to OVERCOME!This is your cross to bear, and it will likely be for all of your earthly life. You may have chosen to surrender, to yield, to NOT overcome, and this is sad. But so long as you are alive, redemption is possible.In the Biblical view, the same burden is on heterosexuals as well. There is no allowance for them to surrender to fornication either. Heterosexuals have the advantage, however, of marrying and thus, legitimizing their sexual behavior. The only path for homosexuals is celibacy if they cannot bring themselves to marry an opposite-sex person. It is an additional burden, but their rewards will be greater because their burdens are greater.This is an opportunity to show your love for God, for whoever sacrifices his life for God will gain it, but whoever seeks to preserve his life will lose it. I hope you make the right decision.

It's comical how you think you have all the answers.

I already made "the right decision" and that was to utterly trust God. He clearly had a reason for making me this way. I don't have to understand it. I just have my faith in Him.

What's sad is that you have not evolved to that point in your spiritual journey. You're still at the basic level. Yet you arrogantly presume to instruct others from your low level.

The "biblical view" as you understand it is nonsense.

Let's talk about "proof," of which you are so fond.

Prove that the bible is the inerrant and 100% perfectly translated, intact Word of God. Then we'll talk.

Until then, your foundation is too shaky on which to base denial of my rights in a free society founded upon freedom of religion.

You're wasting far too much time here instead of investing in your own prayer.

<quoted text>Oh! Jeff! I would be so happy to be gay and to meet a man whom I found attractive and sexy and who I could fall in love with but………THERE ARE NONE!So I've sadly resigned myself to women because as far as attractive, sexy women with whom I could fall in love there are………PLENTY!You might certainly understand how conflicted I am. Oh! Jeff! Please help me!LOL!

(and here he drops another clue and doesn't realize it...)

It reminds me of when I was a little kid on the playground, and didn't realize playing jump rope with the girls was "a clue" until somebody told me.

<quoted text>LOL.1. Your "voice" has changed considerably.2. When it comes down to Kinsey's sexology insights informed by his extensive education and his observations of vast numbers of collective experiences versus your own sexology insights informed by your own subjective personal experience, I'd say that Kinsey represents the black double diamond slope pro and you represent the bunny slope neophyte.Kinsey mapped out the general methodology for the causal pathway for homosexuality as far back as 60 years ago. Since then, the alphabet soup of professional organizations (APA[1], APA[2], AMA, etc.) have developed an ORTHODOX position for DEALING WITH homosexuality but NONE can give you a better UNDERSTANDING of how homosexuality DEVELOPS than the conditioned learning explanation given by Kinsey.Apparently, the essential causal development of homosexuality hasn't changed over these last 60 years (if it HAS, the alphabet soup professional organizations have been professionally negligent in not pointing out that such an essential change has occurred as well as why it has occurred) and Kinsey's understanding of the essential causal development of homosexuality apparently has withstood the test of time.3. As Kinsey correctly suggests, there is only one human physiological sexual AROUSAL mechanism -- that mechanism is universal and is independent of gender.That single human arousal mechanism can be triggered by many different STIMULI and those many different stimuli can involve many different manifestations of BEHAVIOR.Kinsey also suggests, based generally upon the classical conditioning works of Pavlov, that the arousal-triggering sexual stimuli can be UNCONDITIONED and CONDITIONED.Another basic learning process of IMPRINTING is likely also at play in the development of human sexual preferences.******Continued**********

no need to continue. I only read the first few lines.

Kinsey wasn't gay. I am. And I've spoken with a lot more gay people than Kinsey has.

<quoted text>I'm just curious...do you spend hours upon hours in forums telling hetero people not to have sex unless their intention is to create a child?I thought not. And that is very revealing. Gayness attracts you like cheese to a mouse.

no need to continue. I only read the first few lines.Kinsey wasn't gay. I am. And I've spoken with a lot more gay people than Kinsey has...

Wrong. Kinsey was bisexual.

And even counting all the people you served as a bartender at the gay bar where you worked and possibly all the people you said hello to at Gay Disney events and Gay Pride events, I still doubt that your basis of knowledge of homosexuality is broader than was Kinsey's.

<quoted text>(and here he drops another clue and doesn't realize it...)It reminds me of when I was a little kid on the playground, and didn't realize playing jump rope with the girls was "a clue" until somebody told me.

Yeah, when I was a wee gay, the old timers called it "dropping daisies" when a self-described "heterosexual" would unconsciously leave a litter of clues trailing behind them. This guy could supply the potpourri trade with all the blossoms he's dropping.:)

I have no prejudice towards gay people. I enjoy the debate. What I find particularly interesting and amusing is deflating all the phallusies……oops! I mean fallacies…… that are so richly present in the debate on same-sex marriage and related topics.

It's like being in Lewis Carroll's Wonderland…… without the risk of getting your head yanked……err, beheaded.

Yakkin' with gay men? More like kickin' their butts.

This isn't really a gay forum, is it?

It's more like a kick-gay-butt forum because all of you have just been getting your butts kicked for some time now.

It must be a gay masochist forum.

Joking aside, Christ offers salvation to all who would open their hearts to him. Think about it.

<quoted text>Yeah, when I was a wee gay, the old timers called it "dropping daisies" when a self-described "heterosexual" would unconsciously leave a litter of clues trailing behind them. This guy could supply the potpourri trade with all the blossoms he's dropping.:)My new nickname for him is Daisy.

<quoted text>I have no prejudice towards gay people. I enjoy the debate. What I find particularly interesting and amusing is deflating all the phallusies……oops! I mean fallacies…… that are so richly present in the debate on same-sex marriage and related topics.It's like being in Lewis Carroll's Wonderland…… without the risk of getting your head yanked……err, beheaded.Yakkin' with gay men? More like kickin' their butts.This isn't really a gay forum, is it?It's more like a kick-gay-butt forum because all of you have just been getting your butts kicked for some time now.It must be a gay masochist forum.Joking aside, Christ offers salvation to all who would open their hearts to him. Think about it.

Nope there is more to it...... there is not one person in the gay forums that thinks you are here for in gay forums for any other reason that you have some deep routed problems that requires treatment.

<quoted text>Wrong. Kinsey was bisexual.And even counting all the people you served as a bartender at the gay bar where you worked and possibly all the people you said hello to at Gay Disney events and Gay Pride events, I still doubt that your basis of knowledge of homosexuality is broader than was Kinsey's.<quoted text>LOL. Doubt it.But your opinion, for what it's worth, is so noted.

Bisexual is not gay.

I doubt Kinsey interviewed as many gay people as I have in my lifetime.

<quoted text>I have no prejudice towards gay people. I enjoy the debate. What I find particularly interesting and amusing is deflating all the phallusies……oops! I mean fallacies…… that are so richly present in the debate on same-sex marriage and related topics.It's like being in Lewis Carroll's Wonderland…… without the risk of getting your head yanked……err, beheaded.Yakkin' with gay men? More like kickin' their butts.This isn't really a gay forum, is it?It's more like a kick-gay-butt forum because all of you have just been getting your butts kicked for some time now.It must be a gay masochist forum.Joking aside, Christ offers salvation to all who would open their hearts to him. Think about it.

1. We don't enjoy the debate. This is not some game. This is about our very real lives. Show some respect.

2. You don't know what Christ offers and have no business offering anything on his behalf, novice.

3. Ignoring what the gay posters tell you (with authority, I might add) and babbling on and on about nothing isn't kicking anyone's butt. It's self-delusion.

<quoted text>It's comical how you think you have all the answers.I already made "the right decision" and that was to utterly trust God. He clearly had a reason for making me this way. I don't have to understand it. I just have my faith in Him.

If you have faith in Him, then you will keep His commandments and obey His words.

What's sad is that you have not evolved to that point in your spiritual journey. You're still at the basic level. Yet you arrogantly presume to instruct others from your low level.

As I recall, you are one of the most abusive people on these forums. Is that what happens when one progresses to your point in his spiritual journey? Is that what I have to look forward to as I progress?

The "biblical view" as you understand it is nonsense.Let's talk about "proof," of which you are so fond.Prove that the bible is the inerrant and 100% perfectly translated, intact Word of God. Then we'll talk.

I've never asserted that so it's not for me to prove.

Until then, your foundation is too shaky on which to base denial of my rights in a free society founded upon freedom of religion.You're wasting far too much time here instead of investing in your own prayer.

No one is denying you your rights. One is only denying you your FALSE INVENTED rights.

Until obtaining state support for our relationship with the one we love becomes a constitutional right, it remains no right at all. Please show me where in any constitution it says the state must support any relationships we have with the ones we love. Then I'll believe you.

<quoted text>Nope there is more to it...... there is not one person in the gay forums that thinks you are here for in gay forums for any other reason that you have some deep routed problems that requires treatment.

Sexual orientation theory classifies according to psychological criteria. This means that certain ideas and fantasies have APPEAL and arousal power and others do not. But it also means that certain ideas and fantasies have REPULSIVE power as well. Thus, for heterosexuals, the idea of homosexuality would be quite naturally repulsive to them, and vice versa.

This would imply that "homophobia" is NOT culturally induced bigotry as gays would have us believe, but something that would be quite naturally occurring and unavoidable. It would be integrated into the sexual orientation of an individual.

The theory of sexual orientation doesn't leave us the possibility of having it both ways. To accept it in its current formulation means having to accept the rejection and aversion to homosexuality by the great majority of people as something entirely NATURAL and expected.

<quoted text>[*********Continued Reply**********4. Concerning the point you made in some other comment to the effect that if gays choose to be gay then they would certainly be aware of their choice and would be self-accepting, I respond that people whose sexual preferences have been conditioned or imprinted are not in most cases even consciously aware of the conditioning or imprinting, certainly not while those learning processes are taking place:[FROM:“Correlates of Early Overt and Covert Sexual Behaviors in Heterosexual Women” by Paula J. Bickham, Stephen L. O’Keefe, Elaine Baker, Girmay Berhie, Martin J. Kommor, Karen V. Harper-Dorton, Archives of Sexual Behavior (2007) 36:724–740]:.....Laboratory evidence suggests that Pavlovian conditioning of sexual arousal occurs in men and women (Hoffmann, Janssen, & Turner, 2004)...."Pavlovian conditioning is well known for its ability to link involuntary physiological responses, such as salivation (Pavlov, 1927) and sexual arousal (Hoffmann et al., 2004; Hollis, 1997; Lalumie`re & Quinsey, 1998; Plaud & Martini, 1999; Zamble, Mitchell, & Findlay, 1986), to both response-appropriate and response-inappropriate stimuli.Pavlovian conditioning is unconscious, automatic, and involuntary, and it can, therefore, create long-term conditioned responses whose origin may be unknown to the individual even though he/she is aware of the result of the conditioning.".....5. Contrary to what you say, it DOES matter "why" you are gay.Your position is that homosexuality can never be learned while my position is that homosexuality certainly CAN be learned and that certain particular stimuli PROMOTE that learning. I don't think that as a society we should be promoting more people learning to become homosexual -- I understand the gay advocate self-interest in recruiting more homosexuals but I strongly oppose that recruitment.

<quoted text>Nope there is more to it...... there is not one person in the gay forums that thinks you are here for in gay forums for any other reason that you have some deep routed problems that requires treatment.

OK! Enough fun and games! Back to serious stuff.Chew on this.Sexual orientation theory classifies according to psychological criteria. This means that certain ideas and fantasies have APPEAL and arousal power and others do not. But it also means that certain ideas and fantasies have REPULSIVE power as well. Thus, for heterosexuals, the idea of homosexuality would be quite naturally repulsive to them, and vice versa.This would imply that "homophobia" is NOT culturally induced bigotry as gays would have us believe, but something that would be quite naturally occurring and unavoidable. It would be integrated into the sexual orientation of an individual.The theory of sexual orientation doesn't leave us the possibility of having it both ways. To accept it in its current formulation means having to accept the rejection and aversion to homosexuality by the great majority of people as something entirely NATURAL and expected.

Pure fantasy. Pure delusion.

Try as hard as you like but you can't excuse your bigotry with lame theories. So then it must be UNNATURAL for my straight friends and family to accept me?

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