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The poster who said the F10 is a 'Regular Lexus' clearly hasn't driven a Lexus recently. I had an E60 and now a F10 and I agree the latter is less of a driver's car, but it's still great and miles ahead of any Lexus I've driven (I admit I didn't drive the IS because I'm, 'ahem', too fat). To each his or her own. The ES isn't even in the same league with the F10.

I liked driving my E60 535i very much, but not the problems therewith. I've bought, rather than leased, my F10. I have no regrets so far (7 months, 8k miles).

I came from a Lexus IS350. When searching for a new car, I drove the GS350, ES350 and MB E350 and E550. The F10 to me is the better car, I enjoy my 550 each time I get in.

The poster who said the F10 is a 'Regular Lexus' clearly hasn't driven a Lexus recently. I had an E60 and now a F10 and I agree the latter is less of a driver's car, but it's still great and miles ahead of any Lexus I've driven (I admit I didn't drive the IS because I'm, 'ahem', too fat). To each his or her own. The ES isn't even in the same league with the F10.

I liked driving my E60 535i very much, but not the problems therewith. I've bought, rather than leased, my F10. I have no regrets so far (7 months, 8k miles).

+1. I agree. This is same BS I read long time ago when some posters said that e60 w/o sport package handles like Lexus or MB.

The F10 is not the E60. It is a different car, feels different, rides different. Slightly different mission.

Drive the car. You like it? Good buy it. You don't? Move on.

It doesn't ride like a Lexus
It doesn't ride like a Buick
It doesn't ride like a Mercedes
It doesn't ride like an E60.

It rides like an F10. Love it, hate it, you're entitled to your opinion. I am sorry that some of you do not like your purchase, I feel bad, as you shouldn't have to live with a $60k plus vehicle that you don't like. Personally, if I had to do it again, I'm not sure what side of the A6 / F10 camp I would have landed on. But I'm not carping about it on here.

November 2011,, after leasing two E60s, an 06 and an 08,, both X Drive as well.

I was very excited at first. It felt like I was upgrading to a real world class car. And it is. The interior is beautiful and well built, very luxurious. The ride is comfortable and the car handles nicely for its size.

However, at the end of the day, I miss my E60,, I should have kept it for a few more years, then upgraded to the F10. While it is defiantly more luxurious and has more gadgets, I feel the E60 is more of a drivers car. While the F10 might technically handle a turn better, with less under-steer, the E60 feels more nimble and provides greater feedback. Plus its faster. The F10 is wider and harder to negotiate in tight areas. You have to be more aware and careful. The E60 feels dated compared to the F10 but the E60 feels more like a drivers car.

I'm not insulting the F10,,, its a great car for what it is. However, I do feel its going more in the direction of a luxury then a drivers car. The lines have blurred between the 5 and the 7. Gadgets and features are great, if thats what you care more about. Aside from the bigger screen, I dont think the electronics are better. Its widely stated that the old nav is better than the new one,, and it is,, this nav is horrible. The screen is bigger and brighter but the directions are the worst. I-drive is still not intuitive. I don't understand why BMW is so bad at interface design. They should consult Apple!!!

Here is where everyone will hate me. My wife stopped working and I have to get her a car. Im getting an 08 535 XI and giving the luxo-mobile to her. She is happy.

At work, I park in a garage that has a circular ramp the goes up several floors. I used to fly up that thing in the E60. On the F10, I have to take it slow,, its too big, I don't have good feedback in the steering and cant intuitively feel where the car is when maneuvering in a tight area.

Im sure many happy new F10 owner will think im out of my mind. Maybe I am,,, but I miss the E60 and im looking forward to driving it again. It really feels like it fits like a glove.

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You need to slow down in the parking garage! Do you work on Franklin Ave?

[quote=highyo;6160508] again i say the following, where were these thoughts during your test drive? they all of a sudden sprouted up when you took delivery? sounds like many (solstice and casper) didn't do their homework.

BMW loyalty is what got me, I moved from 3 series to 5 series in 1992 with an E34, then had two E39's and two E60's, see, I was a BMW loyal, every new Fiver was better than the one before, so it was business as usual when I moved from E60 550i to F10 550i, did not need to test drive, I expected what I had been obtaining for the last 19 years or so, a better Fiver.

I know, my mistake, I will not take BMWness for granted anymore.

I hope they do not kill the new F30 as well, I am looking forward to it as a possible replacement for my F10, like a 4 door M3. The F30 will be the new 5.

The F10 is not the E60. It is a different car, feels different, rides different. Slightly different mission.

Drive the car. You like it? Good buy it. You don't? Move on.

It doesn't ride like a Lexus
It doesn't ride like a Buick
It doesn't ride like a Mercedes
It doesn't ride like an E60.

It rides like an F10. Love it, hate it, you're entitled to your opinion. I am sorry that some of you do not like your purchase, I feel bad, as you shouldn't have to live with a $60k plus vehicle that you don't like. Personally, if I had to do it again, I'm not sure what side of the A6 / F10 camp I would have landed on. But I'm not carping about it on here.

I agree. I just got my F10. It's an 535i Msport. My previous BMW was a 2008 650 that was returned in Jan. Since then I have been driving a 2003 530i.
I have 370 km on it. Still on my ED.

I have used comfort, normal, sport modes. Some of the roads in Switzerland are narrow and winding. I will say any 5 would feel like bloated big compared to smaller European autos.

I am very happy so far on the handling of the F10. On the autobahn I cruised mostly at 90 mph(140km) with a max so far at 112 mph(180km) and the car was a rock.

The narrow roads were fine in the F10. would the e39 be slightly better maybe, but not much, IMHO. I think the handling feel, feedback issue is overstated by alot. Clearly for some the new steering is bothering you. I'm sorry but this car is very nice.

I guess I'm less sensitive to the issue than some but the car handles great so far and this is in Europe with much narrower roads.

I remember when the e60 came out and people trashed the handling vs e39. Then in few yrs it's dream car, huh?
Same thing again. Each generation change will invariably have some differences. I would wait and pass judgement at midcycle and see what people think.

Almost all the smaller series are growing(3 series, the a4 etc). They are getting better powerplants too. So they will make the next series seem more bloated. One can never compare a 3 series for handling vs 5.

I drove a 135i at PDC and it was a rocket on rails compared to 335i etc. But it is a different class of car. For some the handling of 135i is what they need. But you trade off space and luxury.

I'm an E60 lurker. Looking at buying the new M5 when it is available, probably a 2013 model.

This post gives me pause. Maybe it shouldn't though. Does anyone know if comparing an F10 550 to an F10 M5 is valid? Maybe there are enough structural changes between the two vehicles to prevent any valid comparisons.

E39 was head and shoulders above the competiton in terms of handling/performance but in my opinion the E60 was superior to the E39 in performance/handling but the interior of the E60 was awful. I think BMW in the F10 decided put money back into the interior and left the handling part out and as the population ages decided to make it more luxury than sporty. I had a E39 540i and loved it. Interior was great and IMO was better than the E60. When I test drove the E60 a few times loved the handling but hated the interior. When I test drove the F10 loved the interior but hated the handling. Then I looked back and thought I wish BMW would make a 5er like the E39 again.

I am partly with you, but would not trade my F11 against an E61.
And I am still sorry I traded the E39 against one, should have put the old lady in the garage, if only for sentimental reasons.

I'm an E60 lurker. Looking at buying the new M5 when it is available, probably a 2013 model.

This post gives me pause. Maybe it shouldn't though. Does anyone know if comparing an F10 550 to an F10 M5 is valid? Maybe there are enough structural changes between the two vehicles to prevent any valid comparisons.

If I understand the M line suspension not the same as regular series line. So I would expect handling to be very different on an M5.

Nobrandfanboy feels the e60 was better than the e39. See this my point, with time opinions will change. The e39 is a great car. I love mine but I'm not convinced despite others opinions that it handles that much than the F10. The F10 is definitely more refined, maybe this makes one feel les connected. I don't feel less connected so far at all.

Maybe my age is a factor too, I'm 46. I have owned an driven numerous cars. The 1985 corvette I owned is still the best handling car and what a kick in the pants it gave you. Our infiniti G20 was nice, the maxima was nice ride too.

I felt in many ways my 1996 A4 felt sportier than my e39. The A4 was a smaller car and not fair comparison to the 5 series. I Would not compare our Quest minivan or ml320 to the cars.

The F10 is not the E60. It is a different car, feels different, rides different. Slightly different mission.

Drive the car. You like it? Good buy it. You don't? Move on.

It doesn't ride like a Lexus
It doesn't ride like a Buick
It doesn't ride like a Mercedes
It doesn't ride like an E60.

It rides like an F10. Love it, hate it, you're entitled to your opinion. I am sorry that some of you do not like your purchase, I feel bad, as you shouldn't have to live with a $60k plus vehicle that you don't like. Personally, if I had to do it again, I'm not sure what side of the A6 / F10 camp I would have landed on. But I'm not carping about it on here.

Im not carping,,, merely stating an opionion,,, and not s negative one,, I think the F10 is an incredible automobile and its gorgeous, the interior is amazing. Super high quality inside. I dont expect it to be an E60. I just wish it was a little more fun to drive.

Im not carping,,, merely stating an opionion,,, and not s negative one,, I think the F10 is an incredible automobile and its gorgeous, the interior is amazing. Super high quality inside. I dont expect it to be an F10. I just wish it was a little more fun to drive.

i knew some people would hate me for this thread, hence, the title.

not hating dude. leave that for the M3 boys. you are entitled to your opinion of course. in the beginning of a new model you have a BUNCH of differing opinions, but as the model marinates it turns into just owners who talk about issues/concerns/likes/dislikes. the passion is dialed up when a new model car, ESPECIALLY the 5er is introduced.

To follow up on my previous comment, I did drive an Infiniti M56 today. They are doing some pretty aggressive deals to move the 2011 stock to make way for the 2012. The M is new for 2011 as well.

Overall, it is an excellent car. The styling is subjective, of course, but I like it. There are of course many that would say the styling of BMW is poor, so there is definitely a lot of room for everyone with differing opinions in this world. Interior is very nicely appointed, with luxurious feeling leather, comfortable seats and an attractive look to it. The look and ease of use of the nav and other functions is very easy to use.

Now, on to the driving dynamics part. The 420 HP naturally aspirated V8 really punches hard. The sales rep who is real carhead, first drove it out on the highway and really opened it up. It was quick and put you back in your seat a little bit. When I took it for a spin, I could feel the power in the engine, always ready to move. Admittedly, I wasn't really able to test the handling very much on the test drive route, but it certainly felt confident. This model was fully loaded and was riding on 20" rims. Considering the rim size, the ride was very comfortable. Of course, no RFT.

At an MSRP of almost $70,000, it was loaded with all of the bells and whistles that would push the price of the 550 up thousands and thousands more. With the deals they are running, you could get this for closer to $60k, and the lease was very attractive in the mid $700s. Like I said earlier, most BMW drivers will not even consider the Infiniti because it is an Infiniti and not a German car. There is something to be said for it. Even at this great deal, I'm still wanting the F10. But for those that are interested in a good value drivers car, I wouldn't leave it off your shopping list. Go in with an open mind, you might come out surprised.

Personally, I'd love to see some comparos of these cars in some of the automobile mags, which I'm sure we will see soon. The overall market has risen. The competition will only make things better.

Im not carping,,, merely stating an opionion,,, and not s negative one,, I think the F10 is an incredible automobile and its gorgeous, the interior is amazing. Super high quality inside. I dont expect it to be an E60. I just wish it was a little more fun to drive.

i knew some people would hate me for this thread, hence, the title.

The post was directed more to some of the other vitriol in the thread, less so your initial post.

I don't begrudge anyone their opinion. It just seems as there's a lot of bitterness here. Those who spew the venom should really, for their own sanity, just sell their car and move on or shut up.

The post was directed more to some of the other vitriol in the thread, less so your initial post.

I don't begrudge anyone their opinion. It just seems as there's a lot of bitterness here. Those who spew the venom should really, for their own sanity, just sell their car and move on or shut up.

I agree, im not spewing negativity. As far as looks and quality, the F10 is a clear winner. I have read negativity and bitterness as well. Some come off insulting to people who bought the F10. Im not trying to be that way.

I think im realyl lucky, I have the best of both worls,,, a brand new F10 to dirve, and an E60,,, whats better than that?

To follow up on my previous comment, I did drive an Infiniti M56 today. They are doing some pretty aggressive deals to move the 2011 stock to make way for the 2012. The M is new for 2011 as well.

Overall, it is an excellent car. The styling is subjective, of course, but I like it. There are of course many that would say the styling of BMW is poor, so there is definitely a lot of room for everyone with differing opinions in this world. Interior is very nicely appointed, with luxurious feeling leather, comfortable seats and an attractive look to it. The look and ease of use of the nav and other functions is very easy to use.

Now, on to the driving dynamics part. The 420 HP naturally aspirated V8 really punches hard. The sales rep who is real carhead, first drove it out on the highway and really opened it up. It was quick and put you back in your seat a little bit. When I took it for a spin, I could feel the power in the engine, always ready to move. Admittedly, I wasn't really able to test the handling very much on the test drive route, but it certainly felt confident. This model was fully loaded and was riding on 20" rims. Considering the rim size, the ride was very comfortable. Of course, no RFT.

At an MSRP of almost $70,000, it was loaded with all of the bells and whistles that would push the price of the 550 up thousands and thousands more. With the deals they are running, you could get this for closer to $60k, and the lease was very attractive in the mid $700s. Like I said earlier, most BMW drivers will not even consider the Infiniti because it is an Infiniti and not a German car. There is something to be said for it. Even at this great deal, I'm still wanting the F10. But for those that are interested in a good value drivers car, I wouldn't leave it off your shopping list. Go in with an open mind, you might come out surprised.

Personally, I'd love to see some comparos of these cars in some of the automobile mags, which I'm sure we will see soon. The overall market has risen. The competition will only make things better.

I have both well not an "M" but an 11 QX with the same engine as the M56 and a G37 as well. Infninti has come as close as any Japanese brand has to the driving dynamics of BMW. Now I love the TT pull of my 4.4 V8. But the NA 5.6 Direct Injection V8 is no joke either. It pulls my almost 6,000lb truck with authority and in the very low 6 sixes to 60. This truck drives like a big as car. Overall the biggest factor is they don't break. For an all new model the only time I have been to the dealer is for an oil change.

But I digress - this thread is about the F10. The F10 has matured from its previous generations, often times like humans that means putting on a little weight. No one here I believe has conducted a comparison of an F10 with an E60. The F10 535's may be close in handling maybe only "arguably" and almost even with acceleration

However F10 550i compared to E60 550i, again handling may favor the E60 ever so slightly. I would argue its almost a moot point when comparing against a car with properly dialed in DHP settings. But when it comes to acceleration, the previous generation is not even in the same universe, with a tune and different tires fuggedaboudit.

I'm coming from E60 550i and agree with every word gregb10 wrote.
F10 is simply not as BMW as E60 was. Luxurious and modern - yes.
BMW excitement - not even close.

And you are talking a 550 f10,, which is fast.

The F10 is silky smooth and luxurious. I picked up the E60 yesterday,,, its definitely harsher and less refined,,, but it felt great and fun to drive. I like the side bolsters on the comfort seats, which is no longer available on the F10 and the way the road translates to the steering wheel. Its fun to drive.

Also, i don't panic every time i hit a bump now,,, dont get the sports package on the F10 X-Drive if you live anywhere near NYC,,,, its a nightmare.

November 2011,, after leasing two E60s, an 06 and an 08,, both X Drive as well.

I was very excited at first. It felt like I was upgrading to a real world class car. And it is. The interior is beautiful and well built, very luxurious. The ride is comfortable and the car handles nicely for its size.

However, at the end of the day, I miss my E60,, I should have kept it for a few more years, then upgraded to the F10. While it is defiantly more luxurious and has more gadgets, I feel the E60 is more of a drivers car. While the F10 might technically handle a turn better, with less under-steer, the E60 feels more nimble and provides greater feedback. Plus its faster. The F10 is wider and harder to negotiate in tight areas. You have to be more aware and careful. The E60 feels dated compared to the F10 but the E60 feels more like a drivers car.

I'm not insulting the F10,,, its a great car for what it is. However, I do feel its going more in the direction of a luxury then a drivers car. The lines have blurred between the 5 and the 7. Gadgets and features are great, if thats what you care more about. Aside from the bigger screen, I dont think the electronics are better. Its widely stated that the old nav is better than the new one,, and it is,, this nav is horrible. The screen is bigger and brighter but the directions are the worst. I-drive is still not intuitive. I don't understand why BMW is so bad at interface design. They should consult Apple!!!

Here is where everyone will hate me. My wife stopped working and I have to get her a car. Im getting an 08 535 XI and giving the luxo-mobile to her. She is happy.

At work, I park in a garage that has a circular ramp the goes up several floors. I used to fly up that thing in the E60. On the F10, I have to take it slow,, its too big, I don't have good feedback in the steering and cant intuitively feel where the car is when maneuvering in a tight area.

Im sure many happy new F10 owner will think im out of my mind. Maybe I am,,, but I miss the E60 and im looking forward to driving it again. It really feels like it fits like a glove.

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I'm sure you can swap it at no cost for a new 335is and address all these concerns. Probably not much more to trade for an M3.

I agree, im not spewing negativity. As far as looks and quality, the F10 is a clear winner. I have read negativity and bitterness as well. Some come off insulting to people who bought the F10. Im not trying to be that way.

I think im realyl lucky, I have the best of both worls,,, a brand new F10 to dirve, and an E60,,, whats better than that?

You don't need to explain yourself. This is not an owners only forum, it's open for everyone to discuss and express whatever they want about the F10 how often they want as long as they stay within forum rules. Don't let yourself feel bullied by comments like move on or fck off to where you belong you bitter person. You even own and have praise for the F10 for heavens sake so just ignore it.

i wish i had some backing here but it seems as though this site is being taken over by guys who either hate their car (Casper) or by ex owners who hated their car (solstice). i may actually consider jumping ship earlier to the M5 just to avoid banter with haters.

I am new here so hello. Nice to meet you all. I have been lurking here for months enjoying every minute of it. I've decided to finally chime in because I am ready to pick up a 2011 or 2012 550i or 535d*

Highyo speaks the truth. Don't know why so many of you try to argue with him. futile it is.

I am happy the F10 is bigger, heavier, more luxurious, as compared to the 5ers of the past. I had a E39 M5, loved it. Didnt care much for the E60 so I passed.

since selling my M5 I have been relying on a 2008 chevy diesel crew cab short bed for daily commute and kid duty. It's the safest kid mover ever, period. With all these moms in their GL's and x5's running around here in the bay area you'll want to be in a lifted heavy duty truck when you get t-boned or rear ended at some intersection or on 101.

And no, being in an agile M3 will not help you avoid the crash. Human factors plays most of the role in why accidents happen of which most are unavoidable.

So heavier is better. Design important, but it takes back seat to MASS moving at high velocity.

As far as fun factor goes, get over it it is a sedan. I am not expecting wonders in that department. If you want to turn fast buy a sports car.

I don't want my second post to be a rant. To get on with it I think BMW knows exactly what they are doing and built a car for the market they targeted. Guys like me, 42, kids, safe and comfortable with some sport but not too much. Why all the fuss over having to bang turns in your 4 door? Just eats tires and brakes. These things are built to go straight very fast for very long periods of time in comfort. The F10 does all of those nicely. And it'll turn too, if you want it to. It'll even rotate...

I am new here so hello. Nice to meet you all. I have been lurking here for months enjoying every minute of it. I've decided to finally chime in because I am ready to pick up a 2011 or 2012 550i or 535d*

Highyo speaks the truth. Don't know why so many of you try to argue with him. futile it is.

I am happy the F10 is bigger, heavier, more luxurious, as compared to the 5ers of the past. I had a E39 M5, loved it. Didnt care much for the E60 so I passed.

since selling my M5 I have been relying on a 2008 chevy diesel crew cab short bed for daily commute and kid duty. It's the safest kid mover ever, period. With all these moms in their GL's and x5's running around here in the bay area you'll want to be in a lifted heavy duty truck when you get t-boned or rear ended at some intersection or on 101.

And no, being in an agile M3 will not help you avoid the crash. Human factors plays most of the role in why accidents happen of which most are unavoidable.

So heavier is better. Design important, but it takes back seat to MASS moving at high velocity.

As far as fun factor goes, get over it it is a sedan. I am not expecting wonders in that department. If you want to turn fast buy a sports car.

I don't want my second post to be a rant. To get on with it I think BMW knows exactly what they are doing and built a car for the market they targeted. Guys like me, 42, kids, safe and comfortable with some sport but not too much. Why all the fuss over having to bang turns in your 4 door? Just eats tires and brakes. These things are built to go straight very fast for very long periods of time in comfort. The F10 does all of those nicely. And it'll turn too, if you want it to. It'll even rotate...

After 1000 miles on European roads I loved the handling of the 5 in normal or sport mode.( comfort was nice on long straight stretches). It did great on the narrow twisting highways.

I am just not sure what is so disappointing on the handling on this car. It does not handle like a 1 series. Can't imagine the more bloated 3 is that huge a leap. As for comparing the F10 to any M is absurd. The M suspension are modified it's a whole different class of car, period.

Does anyone know if comparing an F10 550 to an F10 M5 is valid? Maybe there are enough structural changes between the two vehicles to prevent any valid comparisons.

Not sure how many people actually already had the privilege of comparing both yet.

FWIW I test drove a 550iX MSport with M suspension and an Alpina B5 the same morning. It was like night and day (... guess what I've ordered).
So yes, a completely different road and steering feel is possible with the same base vehicle weighing the same. I guess similar results could be expected with the upcoming M5.

you really need to sell your car or take the hit on the lease. you hate it! im sure you can find some new sucker who thinks that the F10 is a good car. there's apparently a record number of them sprouting up everywhere. again i say the following, where were these thoughts during your test drive? they all of a sudden sprouted up when you took delivery? sounds like many (solstice and casper) didn't do their homework.

the BMW that i know and love is alive and well in it's latest iteration, the 5 series. it's a little more luxury than sport, a little heavier than E60, but much more nicely appointed, and the engine is a demon. i think that dialing up the system to sport+ is as much excitement as my old 535i Msport pack, just in a different way. more light bomber, less fighter. that probably comes from the 7 series platform. and i wont miss the niggles of my e60 namely the dreaded HPFP but also the crappy interior, design miscues, and slightly "jumpy" feeling the car exhibited when under worse than perfect roads. no such issues with my rocket F10 with Dinan stage 1.

i wish i had some backing here but it seems as though this site is being taken over by guys who either hate their car (Casper) or by ex owners who hated their car (solstice). i may actually consider jumping ship earlier to the M5 just to avoid banter with haters.

I dont hate my F10. I gree with most of what you wrote. The interior is far superior to the E60. After a few weeks of driving both, I am better able to realize the differences. The F10 does glide over the bumps much smoother and the feel of luxury and quality is much better. It even takes the turns better with far less understeer.

However, the E60, with all its flaws, is just a more fun to drive. Its a little quicker and more nimble, even though you cant take a trun as fast. It just gives more feedback, a better feel of the road,, less isolated My wife loves the F10, more than the E60. It feels more presitgeous.

So please dont make me out to be a hater. I just find the E60 more fun to drive. The E60 is like putting on a comfortabel pair of jeans,, and the F10 is like wearing a fine suit. I know the analogy is a little out there, but it makes a point.

Im one of the luckiest people on the forum, I get to drive both. I love our F10 as well,,, just in a different way.