Space Marines in close range aren't exactly fighting with damage, but critting your subsystems into oblivion.Their damage got decreased, but the RoF increased which has a nice synergy with Chapter Master.Prioritize the enemy weapon subsystems and you could be good to go.

Spartan-089 wrote:

Bludfist wrote:With the overall weakened macros that are now more designed to crit and cripple, i dont really think you can brawl with anything bar battlebarges?

That my opinion, though a chapter master, locked on battlebarge is pretty dam scary and will melt ships for sure

In that case would 2 battle barges at 700pts be a viable "brawler" force? Maybe 1 with Chapter Master and 1 with Master of the Forge.

I would like to know if anyone has had success with double BBs?

With a dual MK1 Battle Barge set-up that has Chapter Master and Master of the Forge you can do whatever the f*** you want. Well, almost.

I play Orkz to collect all those salty Imperial tears #FeelsWaaaghBoss

Pretty much a case of using AAF to close the distance, the probe to spot them, and trying to crit their engines with concentrated assaults. Rinse and repeat. Thats the only tactic I can really think of for taking on kites

I dont think 2 barges is good. You will be either shot to death at 15 k by lances/ zapps or brutally outnumbered by chaos (slannesh will have a field day with you 5-6 chain promise you to the point you want to rip your nuts off) , orks and imperial brawler fleets will also pretty much rek you reliably. If anything I think the best thing you can do for a brawler build is atleast have the numbers (meaning try to field 4 cruisers IF U CAN fitted out for critting and tanking.) Other than that your just gonna be stuck with long range boarding torps. Still trying to figure out avway to make lances work good but they are slightly awkward to use. They are not as awsome as dauntless lances that would fuck anybodies day up.

MYNAME? wrote:I dont think 2 barges is good. You will be either shot to death at 15 k by lances/ zapps or brutally outnumbered by chaos (slannesh will have a field day with you 5-6 chain promise you to the point you want to rip your nuts off) , orks and imperial brawler fleets will also pretty much rek you reliably. If anything I think the best thing you can do for a brawler build is atleast have the numbers (meaning try to field 4 cruisers IF U CAN fitted out for critting and tanking.) Other than that your just gonna be stuck with long range boarding torps. Still trying to figure out avway to make lances work good but they are slightly awkward to use. They are not as awsome as dauntless lances that would fuck anybodies day up.

After getting my 2 battle barges to lv8 and lv6 respectively and winning more battles than Ive lost Ive learned a few things.

First 2 battle barges alone can take out IN and Chaos Brawler Fleets (a bit harder) without that much trouble. Its best to focus on 1 target at a time then rinse and repeat, never split up your barges. Two MK 1 barges using Lock-on order in tandem with the Chapter Master order will melt almost all ships except another barge in fairly short order.

But as you said my toughest matchup was against an all carrier mixed Nurgle/Slaneshi fleet who just kitted the entire map while juggling shield transfer and super charged void shield activations. I literally could not destroy a single ship even with the combined fire power of the barges. Their turn rates and speed even with Induction cells are horrible, I still have yet to figure out a counter with just using 2 barges but im working on it.

Another hard counter as also mentioned, Zzap Orks. If they Identify your barges at 15k range with full zzaps, your barges are dead, my main faction are mixed zzap tracktor Orks and now that Im lvling up another faction im starting to see how much of a problem they are. That said, Ork fleets I encountered that had no Zzaps, were no match for 2 battle barges. Even out numbered 2 to 7, I ussually won by a fair margin because I could outrange them from 6k and their ramming was negated by my brace for impact orders. Superior boarding actions just seal the deal.

Haven't played Eldar in 700 pt cruiser clash so cant comment on that match up.

Another point to make is it is absolutely imperative you have belt armor and max troop value of 84 on both vessels (combination of crew and relic upgrade) a lucky boarding could cripple your prow and turn the deadliest battleship in the game to an overpriced transport ship.

----Things I hope people can answer, does the AP upgrade affect the bombardment cannon even though it already counts armor at 25%?

No, the AP upgrade only lowers armour to 25 at the lowest, so it has no effect on armour piercing weapons like bombardment cannons.

No idea I'm afraid, I'd assume so though.

Your broadside base is 9k, the cannons are 6k. The range upgrade COULD be useful, but I wouldn't say its worth it. You just don't have the accuracy at longer ranges to make it worthwhile, plus you want to be up close anyway. Stick with tanking or boarding upgrades.

No helpful experience sadly, aside from vaguely attempting to head the kiters off with one ship and boxing them in with the other. Occasionally I get lucky enough that I put some fire and thunderhawks into one of the ships. Its a shit tactic though, it relies on your enemy being shit at kiting.