Absolutely not. It effectively lets you undo poor play (getting hit with a stun in the first place) after the fact and doesn't even cost you a utility or weapon skill. Oh, and you can do it twice in a row with no ICD. Exhaustion is the least they can do to keep it balanced.

@coro.3176 said:
Absolutely not. It effectively lets you undo poor play (getting hit with a stun in the first place) after the fact and doesn't even cost you a utility or weapon skill. Oh, and you can do it twice in a row with no ICD. Exhaustion is the least they can do to keep it balanced.

So I expect to see you posting about all the midtier traits that reward you with various forms of semi-immunity for poor play. Any time now...

@coro.3176 said:
Absolutely not. It effectively lets you undo poor play (getting hit with a stun in the first place) after the fact and doesn't even cost you a utility or weapon skill. Oh, and you can do it twice in a row with no ICD. Exhaustion is the least they can do to keep it balanced.

So I expect to see you posting about all the midtier traits that reward you with various forms of semi-immunity for poor play. Any time now...

@coro.3176 said:
Absolutely not. It effectively lets you undo poor play (getting hit with a stun in the first place) after the fact and doesn't even cost you a utility or weapon skill. Oh, and you can do it twice in a row with no ICD. Exhaustion is the least they can do to keep it balanced.

So I expect to see you posting about all the midtier traits that reward you with various forms of semi-immunity for poor play. Any time now...

Nope to OP.
I say there been so many crying complainers about it, i say leave it as is. So they can't rant that's the reason mirage is broken & not there own flaky skill's.
As predicted same complainers found something else now to complain about mirage now that EM is no longer an issue. Now it's to many clones or de-targeting & Chrono is to op.

at this point elusive mind is just an anti-skill and it feels like kitten to use it because the only way you do damage as mesmer is with mirage cloak, which costs stamina
which means you have less defensive dodges because mirage cloak is used offensively

and due to the vigor nerfs (and yes, it's true that every class in the game has better vigor uptime with a few exceptions) and also needing mirage cloak to attack OFFENSIVELY that means you ACTUALLY HAVE LESS DODGES AS A MESMER which isn't a rocket science its common sense but we all know that 99% of the anti-mesmer whine is made by people that don't play or understand mesmer

elusive mind needs to go back to 3s exhaustion and even then it would still not be that good but at least a consideration

Remove the stunbreak and exhaustion from EM, increase condi clear to 2 per dodge or add 20% cdr on deception skills

The funny thing is this was suggested very rapidly in the mesmer forum shortly after PoF though without the deception skills CDR, really it doesn't need more power creep, 2 conditions cleansed would be insanely good for power mirage. Also Shadowpass if I remember correctly was advocating some pretty heavy handed nerfs to mirage and EM at that time. He seems to have seen the error of his ways.

Remove the stunbreak and exhaustion from EM, increase condi clear to 2 per dodge or add 20% cdr on deception skills

The funny thing is this was suggested very rapidly in the mesmer forum shortly after PoF though without the deception skills CDR, really it doesn't need more power creep, 2 conditions cleansed would be insanely good for power mirage. Also Shadowpass if I remember correctly was advocating some pretty heavy handed nerfs to mirage and EM at that time. He seems to have seen the error of his ways.

My suggestions haven't changed. I've been arguing the same changes since PoF came out. However, people have stopped using EM due to the exhaustion, so they're more receptive to it getting reworked than they used to be.

I've always said that Mirage should never have been able to dodge/stunbreak on dodge. Remove those mechanics, the exhaustion from EM, and give it a little extra to make up for it.

Also, Mirage still needs more nerfs. However, so do Boonbeast, Holosmith, and many other classes.

and the MESEMERLOLTRAIN rolls on... don't you guys get it? Its what they consider their "signature class" that many of the Devs play. It will never be razed tot he ground like other classes int he history of this game have been and to a degree still are.

@Devilman.1532 said:
and the MESEMERLOLTRAIN rolls on... don't you guys get it? Its what they consider their "signature class" that many of the Devs play. It will never be razed tot he ground like other classes int he history of this game have been and to a degree still are.

@Devilman.1532 said:
and the MESEMERLOLTRAIN rolls on... don't you guys get it? Its what they consider their "signature class" that many of the Devs play. It will never be razed tot he ground like other classes int he history of this game have been and to a degree still are.

Arent you the guy playing Broken passives Holo?

Holo currently has 5 times the top 250 representation as mirage in NA but apparently it's still the mirage train somehow. Even when playing what is objectively the best, highest performing, highest impact build he's still whining about mesmers.

@Devilman.1532 said:
and the MESEMERLOLTRAIN rolls on... don't you guys get it? Its what they consider their "signature class" that many of the Devs play. It will never be razed tot he ground like other classes int he history of this game have been and to a degree still are.

Arent you the guy playing Broken passives Holo?

Holo currently has 5 times the top 250 representation as mirage in NA but apparently it's still the mirage train somehow. Even when playing what is objectively the best, highest performing, highest impact build he's still whining about mesmers.

Unrelated but Holo is busted yet for much more obvious and easily fixed reasons than mirage. The entirety of yolosmiths problems can be traced to the hilariously massive overbuff given to Elixer U on the July 2018 balance patch, which more and more Engie players have started to fully understand how to exploit in the past two months. The skill combined with traits and boon duration is 10s of 2 stab stacks, stunbreak, 18 seconds of quickness, 12s vigor 20s might, all on a 30s recharge -oh and the TB part is AoE. The skill could legit be elite and I would still take it on my holo 100% not even joking this thing is cray.

You could give a random buff like that to any other utility skill on any other class and the class would become busted for the same reason.

All the balance team has to do is revert that one skill and Holosmith is probably balanced.

@Devilman.1532 said:
and the MESEMERLOLTRAIN rolls on... don't you guys get it? Its what they consider their "signature class" that many of the Devs play. It will never be razed tot he ground like other classes int he history of this game have been and to a degree still are.

Arent you the guy playing Broken passives Holo?

Holo currently has 5 times the top 250 representation as mirage in NA but apparently it's still the mirage train somehow. Even when playing what is objectively the best, highest performing, highest impact build he's still whining about mesmers.

Unrelated but Holo is busted yet for much more obvious and easily fixed reasons than mirage. The entirety of yolosmiths problems can be traced to the hilariously massive overbuff given to Elixer U on the July 2018 balance patch, which more and more Engie players have started to fully understand how to exploit in the past two months. The skill combined with traits and boon duration is 10s of 2 stab stacks, stunbreak, 18 seconds of quickness, 12s vigor 20s might, all on a 30s recharge -oh and the TB part is AoE. The skill could legit be elite and I would still take it on my holo 100% not even joking this thing is cray.

You could give a random buff like that to any other utility skill on any other class and the class would become busted for the same reason.

All the balance team has to do is revert that one skill and Holosmith is probably balanced.

Nah. The Elixir traitline combined with the Holosmith line give the build far, far too much survivability and sustain for a build that's supposed to be so high risk high reward it's in danger of blowing itself up.

@tinyreborn.1938 said:
Actually all of you got what YOU deserve with your tears . IH mirage xD

"Lmao, these people we are steamrolling in pvp don't know exactly why we are overpowered, so now we will be even more overpowered than before by just ignoring the trait that got nerfed."

Cry more
That will help xD
Also pretty sure Mirage is OP for same reason as other 'OP' specs.
I'm alrdy fed up with all those tears everywhere . Only reason they still nerfing mesmer to hush all those average silver2 players that make threads about how OP 2 chronos ...

Obviously it won't, but showing people who try to justify pulling matchup wins on autopilot their own logic is therapeutic.

@tinyreborn.1938 said:
Also pretty sure Mirage is OP for same reason as other 'OP' specs.

"I'm aware that Mirage being busted is now even more obvious than it was before, because now people are forced to slot Infinite Horizon instead of EM (and still be able to dodge while stunned whenever they choose), but I'm going to immediately ignore that and just claim people are whining because of l2p issues."

Pick one or the other. Either you think its a L2P issue, or you're aware being able to dodge bursts after getting stunned, on a class that already has tricks to shift and drop targets without committing anything more than endurance is too much and yet you would rather it stay like that.

Obviously it won't, but showing people who try to justify pulling matchup wins on autopilot their own logic is therapeutic.

@tinyreborn.1938 said:
Also pretty sure Mirage is OP for same reason as other 'OP' specs.

"I'm aware that Mirage being busted is now even more obvious than it was before, because now people are forced to slot Infinite Horizon instead of EM (and still be able to dodge while stunned whenever they choose), but I'm going to immediately ignore that and just claim people are whining because of l2p issues."

Pick one or the other. Either you think its a L2P issue, or you're aware being able to dodge bursts after getting stunned , on a class that already has tricks to shift and drop targets without committing anything more than endurance (Wootofok u talking about here?) is too much and yet you would rather it stay like that.

Actually right now I will say its clearly L2P issue . Just as braendaed logic of our beloved thieves (unhonorable mentions mr.crabs) and facerollsmith protectors(countless amount of them) I will defy any logic and all arguments . If they can do that ,why I cant?:D
Also truth be told , all other classess are not less broken than mirage. If look at LB there is only few mesmers wage war against those revenant exploiters! Poor Flanby... xD
ALSO since when mirage even more broken than before? After all those nerfs its way weaker than its used to be by a lot . Before mirage could play sword torch staff and now if you play it you dont do any pressure and cant 1x1 anything . May be you are right, all nerfs made mirage stronger... Can we do the same with other overperforming classes? Make them busted via nerfs! You made my day lad

@tinyreborn.1938 said:
ALSO since when mirage even more broken than before? After all those nerfs its way weaker than its used to be by a lot . Before mirage could play sword torch staff and now if you play it you dont do any pressure and cant 1x1 anything . May be you are right, all nerfs made mirage stronger... Can we do the same with other overperforming classes? Make them busted via nerfs! You made my day lad

They did not get stronger numbers wise, the nerf just made more people slot a stronger trait since EM is now so unappealing. Their presence as a whole in the PVP sphere is now worse because the nerf to EM did not fix the issue, it just made more mirages slot IH.

Mirages can, due to Mirage cloak, evade when stunned, even without taking Elusive Mind. Every other class in the game has to slot a utility skill to address stuns. Mirage does not. all it costs them is endurance.

I'm getting the feeling you don't understand the kind of advantage that affords, though.