I was there on Friday and didn't see any routes between Midnight Soiled and In Halen... I heard Joe and Kent were there out that way over the weekend, perhaps they added them?

There wasn't a great deal of space there for another route though, let alone two...

Incidentally, climb.org.au has gone read only (according to their message at least) so I wouldn't expect to find any new routes listed there. I'd be looking on TheCrag.

climb.org.au's topo is should still be valid:
3 is By Jovi
4 is Midnight Soiled (which, unless I've very blind, doesn't have an independent anchor, you traverse to By Jovi's anchor)
5 is In Halen
6 is Lines n' Noses

I've never been there before so perhaps I am confused. We went there on Sat, warmed up on Maiden China (dangerously bolted I think), then we were going to do either Lines N'Noses or In Halen but those 2 were taken.
I saw 2 lines of bolts to the right of In Halen, perhaps 1-1.5m apart, straight up, 5 bolts each. Could not have been Midnight Soiled as Midnight Soiled starts maybe 4-5m to the right of In Halen, just right of the dead tree, then it kind of zig-zags to the right then to the left then up.

Anyway, someone told me the left one of those was perhaps a 19 so I jumped on it and it felt quite a bit harder. At least, Lines N'Noses and Lost in Translation, which I did later, felt heaps easier.

Then someone else told me this was a hard 21 and the other one is a 22. Wonder whos version is correct.

There's this thing about sport climbing that people seem to not realise - it's often dangerous anywhere on the first few bolts. Short of putting bolts less than a metre apart, that's something to be managed by good judgement and judicious stick clipping. I'm way more scared on sport routes than trad because you are often in positions where falling off low down or when clipping is just not an option.

There were no new routes on Tribute when I was there 2 weeks ago. All the routes listed on that wall are about 1-1.5 m apart and the whole wall from the step in the gully to gulch is barely 5 m. The route closest to the tree is the 23.

Yes, I think adding a bolt between 2 and 3 would reduce the risk. As far as I understand, quite a few gym climbers start climbing outdoors there because tribute wall is one of not many bolted walls with lower grades.
Don't want to start another bolting-no bolting discussion though.

It really comes down to your own risk assessment, obviously something beginners are often unskilled to do. If its a hairy clip maybe mention it in the guide to prompt a rethink it before blindly jumping on it with the view bolts = safe.?

Bolting easy ledgey routes is often pretty hard as falls are rarely clean into space....I tend to bolt ledges as the start of a new route...i.e. first few bolts close together again to try and mitigate what will essentially be a grounder until you get enough height but in all honesty you can't get rid of all risk and those getting on any route, be it trad or sport have to be aware of potential dangers involved and make there own judgement call.

Just because its a sport route, doesn't mean it has to be bolted to the lowest common denominator....working out whats safe within your own abilities is part of learning to rock climb.

Ok thanks, perhaps I jumped on 23 then, no wonder it felt harder than 19. I asked a few passers by and they all said they don't know what it is. Maybe we just got confused a bit.
With regards to bolting on 15, this was IMHO only. Full respect to bolters and non-bolters.

My 'hot tip' is to actually read a guidebook. I'm intrigued by why a group of climbers were using hearsay and rumor to work out what was what on a crag that is very well documented - online and in print.

Tribute Wall would have to be one of the most bolted (overbolted?) crags in Victoria, I don't believe adding additional bolts would help. If people are sketching out down low - I suggest stick-clipping the first AND 2nd bolt.

Thanks for the tip but I did check online. We also had a book with us titled Grampians climbing sport crags 2013 edition. Great book which obviously took a lot of efforts to write so thank you. Actually, we had 2 of them. Still, we did not think at the time that we looking at Midnight Soiled, this was the reason for posting here. Now it is clear there are no new routes on the wall, I still wonder what we climbed but this is something which we'll only know after we revisit the place.

With regards to Maiden China, we thought it's a bit dangerous, especially for gym climbers between 2 and 3, not between 1 and 2. This is just an opinion, a feedback.

I did Maiden China while recovering from a back injury and so was fairly tentative on it but didn't feel concerned. Unlike on The Suburbs (upper tribute) later in the day where I placed sling runners between each bolt. Maiden China was actually one of the more characterful routes on the wall.
Do gyms teach people any tricks for clipping when close to ledges? A simple technique is to have a sling clipped to the draw and clip the sling before clipping the draw to minimise how much rope is out at any time. That trick is much more portable than an extra bolt on one climb.

On 7/10/2013 kp wrote:>On 7/10/2013 ajfclark wrote:>>There is however, a large pile of (I assume human) feces to the right>of>>the start of route #7. :-/>>Man, this is so disappointing. I really do have mixed feelings about>the increased numbers (of idiots) that sport climbing brings.....

I'm glad that wasn't there when I was. Sadly, it isn't just at sport crags that people pooing is a problem. Araps has a regular supply of pretty pyramids and I've had more than a few bitches about it before.

On 7/10/2013 kieranl wrote:>Do gyms teach people any tricks for clipping when close to ledges? A simple>technique is to have a sling clipped to the draw and clip the sling before>clipping the draw to minimise how much rope is out at any time. That trick>is much more portable than an extra bolt on one climb.>
I'd never learnt, heard, seen or read about this trick until I watched Superstu do this on some grade 20 at the Ravine the Christmas break before last.

On 7/10/2013 silver_13 wrote:>Thanks for the tip but I did check online. We also had a book with us titled>Grampians climbing sport crags 2013 edition. Great book which obviously>took a lot of efforts to write so thank you. Actually, we had 2 of them.>Still, we did not think at the time that we looking at Midnight Soiled,>this was the reason for posting here. Now it is clear there are no new>routes on the wall, I still wonder what we climbed but this is something>which we'll only know after we revisit the place.

Is there anything in the guide that confused you? It seems reasonably clear on the topo and descriptions. The guide does show incorrect number of lower-off anchors though. Jet, By Jovi and Midnight Soiled all share the same anchor.

>With regards to Maiden China, we thought it's a bit dangerous, especially>for gym climbers between 2 and 3, not between 1 and 2. This is just an>opinion, a feedback.

I think if you fell off you would fall down the 'pit' anyway. No ground to hit!