UK_Seahawk wrote:The league table is a reflection of the club's performance over the season. The perception of the Liverpool fanbase is that they should be challenging for the title (based on resources, fanbase, facilities and history) whether they can realistically do this is moot, it's all about the expectation. They continually fall short and thus they underachieve against expectation.

Liverpool fans are largely arrogant based on the successes they had years ago which makes them the EPL equivalent of the 49ers.

UK_Seahawk wrote:The league table is a reflection of the club's performance over the season. The perception of the Liverpool fanbase is that they should be challenging for the title (based on resources, fanbase, facilities and history) whether they can realistically do this is moot, it's all about the expectation. They continually fall short and thus they underachieve against expectation.

Liverpool fans are largely arrogant based on the successes they had years ago which makes them the EPL equivalent of the 49ers.

and that is a bit of an generalization and assumption on your part, and a common cop out by many.

First, the club has been massively successful despite the ascension of United, Chelsea and City

and I guess I dont see the issue in the fact Liverpool fans expect to challenge for titles. If the club underperforms the blame is placed where it should. How is it bad that a fan base would expect those types of things? Chelsea fans do. United fans do. City fans are beginning to. Do Liverpool fans hold on a little tighter to their history? Sure they do, for good reason. they were arguably the best club in the world over a 20 year spell. These rivalries are ancient. Reflecting back on glory days (as a fan) is natural.

Isnt that what fans of big clubs do, expect to win? United fans certainly expected more from their team this season despite all signs pointing south. Arsenal fans want a title, despite knowing top 4 is always the clubs goal.

I'd imagine Seahawk fans will start expecting their team to compete for titles every year as well. Now, when Liverpool fans start beaming about being the "better" club because of their history.... thats a bit different (thats a 49er fan). But bigger and better are not the same thing now are they

UK_Seahawk wrote:The league table is a reflection of the club's performance over the season. The perception of the Liverpool fanbase is that they should be challenging for the title (based on resources, fanbase, facilities and history) whether they can realistically do this is moot, it's all about the expectation. They continually fall short and thus they underachieve against expectation.

Liverpool fans are largely arrogant based on the successes they had years ago which makes them the EPL equivalent of the 49ers.

LOLWUT. What do you call United fans then? Arsehole.

United fans to be fair have had recent success to be arrogant about. Liverpool in comparison havent.

UK_Seahawk wrote:The league table is a reflection of the club's performance over the season. The perception of the Liverpool fanbase is that they should be challenging for the title (based on resources, fanbase, facilities and history) whether they can realistically do this is moot, it's all about the expectation. They continually fall short and thus they underachieve against expectation.

Liverpool fans are largely arrogant based on the successes they had years ago which makes them the EPL equivalent of the 49ers.

LOLWUT. What do you call United fans then? Arsehole.

United fans to be fair have had recent success to be arrogant about. Liverpool in comparison havent.

in comparison to United and Chelsea, no. But Liverppols overall success over the last 10 years has been fantastic. and thats including this 3 year rut.

There are 5 massive clubs in England. Internationally popular marketing machines. Recent titles may bolster the volume of the songs in the stadium. but these clubs are doing more than just that.

I think you'd be a bit taken aback by how popular these clubs, and especially Liverpool, are just here in the US.

Bayern getting thumped at home by Real. 3-0 already and it's not yet half time. Might as well not play the second half, since Bayern now need to score 5 and keep a clean sheet the rest of the way. Pretty surprising.

UK_Seahawks's liverpool/niners comparison works perfectly. I have been using the same and most fans can admit to it.

Sad to say but Atletico thoroughly deserved to be in the final. Its a lot easier to see Chelsea lose in the semifinals now that the trophy has been won once. Mourinho put up a good fight, and getting to the semis is an overachievment already, the better team won today and theres nothing to ashamed about with that.

Typical Mourinho in his post match interview. Refusing to admit that Atletico was the better team on the day and that they deserved to go through. Can't he just get off his damned ego trip for 5 seconds?

TwilightError wrote:UK_Seahawks's liverpool/niners comparison works perfectly. I have been using the same and most fans can admit to it.

Sad to say but Atletico thoroughly deserved to be in the final. Its a lot easier to see Chelsea lose in the semifinals now that the trophy has been won once. Mourinho put up a good fight, and getting to the semis is an overachievment already, the better team won today and theres nothing to ashamed about with that.

Get off itChelsea fans, like 9er fans are an ugly group of poor sports who follow an arse hole of a coach to the depths of poor play. Like the rest of the NFL and the 9ers no one likes the Chelsea fan its players or what it represents in the PL. The similarities are striking.

To suggest another is dribbling yourself.

You should be ashamed by 6 defenders starting, a lack of purposeful attack play and a complete lack of attentiveness to defending at key moments. But yeah, Jose got it right. Just a better team and all that

UK_Seahawk wrote:The league table is a reflection of the club's performance over the season. The perception of the Liverpool fanbase is that they should be challenging for the title (based on resources, fanbase, facilities and history) whether they can realistically do this is moot, it's all about the expectation. They continually fall short and thus they underachieve against expectation.

Liverpool fans are largely arrogant based on the successes they had years ago which makes them the EPL equivalent of the 49ers.

UK_Seahawk wrote:The league table is a reflection of the club's performance over the season. The perception of the Liverpool fanbase is that they should be challenging for the title (based on resources, fanbase, facilities and history) whether they can realistically do this is moot, it's all about the expectation. They continually fall short and thus they underachieve against expectation.

Liverpool fans are largely arrogant based on the successes they had years ago which makes them the EPL equivalent of the 49ers.

You speak the truth!

I'm no Liverpool fan but although they haven't done jack in the league in years they are a massive club supporters wise and have won the Champions League in the last 10 years and lost a final. On top of that they have won domestic cups. I expected them to challenge for the league in the future but this has happened quicker than i thought. I'd say the glory hunter fans in Liverpool have been pretty well tested the last 5 years. Same to a lesser extent with Arsenal. Man Utd fans are now getting their dose of reality. i don't even know what to say about Chelsea, they were pretty much always mediocre until Mourinho took over the first time. I expect them to return to that when Abromovich gets bored/dies. Comparing Liverpool to the 49ers is nuts, they haven't won anything since 94.

UK_Seahawk wrote:The league table is a reflection of the club's performance over the season. The perception of the Liverpool fanbase is that they should be challenging for the title (based on resources, fanbase, facilities and history) whether they can realistically do this is moot, it's all about the expectation. They continually fall short and thus they underachieve against expectation.

Liverpool fans are largely arrogant based on the successes they had years ago which makes them the EPL equivalent of the 49ers.

TwilightError wrote:UK_Seahawks's liverpool/niners comparison works perfectly. I have been using the same and most fans can admit to it.

Sad to say but Atletico thoroughly deserved to be in the final. Its a lot easier to see Chelsea lose in the semifinals now that the trophy has been won once. Mourinho put up a good fight, and getting to the semis is an overachievment already, the better team won today and theres nothing to ashamed about with that.

Get off itChelsea fans, like 9er fans are an ugly group of poor sports who follow an arse hole of a coach to the depths of poor play. Like the rest of the NFL and the 9ers no one likes the Chelsea fan its players or what it represents in the PL. The similarities are striking.

To suggest another is dribbling yourself.

You should be ashamed by 6 defenders starting, a lack of purposeful attack play and a complete lack of attentiveness to defending at key moments. But yeah, Jose got it right. Just a better team and all that

Whatever...

Aww. You are cute when you are mad <3

Just like niner fans, the liverpool fans live in the past and are angry at anyone who succeeds in the now. I personally know Niner fans who completely agree with this Both are big old time crowd favorites, who have faded away recently but appear to have found their form again.

BTW. What Mourinho does when he gets the media attention to himself is a well known old tactic, which would not work if people would not still get mad at that. Useful idiots make it easy for Jose, the ultimate players coach.

i wont argue semantics with you Twilight. I just dont think you know much about it is all. I really just dont get Chelsea fans in general. United, sure. They've been brilliant for 2 decades. Arsenal? Absolutely. The invincibles. Liverpool? Yeah, rich fan base dedicated to history (isnt that what sports are about? history, unified and passionate fan base?). City? Quite exciting 5 years from them, have sort of a "Seahawks" appeal to them at the moment. But Chelsea? its like latching on to a pimp just to get the hookers for free.

Brief history, Liverpool didnt "fade away". Jesus they won the CL final in 2005, and appeared in the final again in 2008. They were 4 points off the title in 2009. If anything, they recently faded for a short period of time. Its been an ugly 4 years, which makes this year far more rewarding.

I get it, its easy to assume Liverpool fans live in the past because of the title count. personally I dont know many fans who arent constantly talking about their trophy cases, in any sport. You dont think United fans do? The idea that any fan base "expects" to win is part of, well, being a fan. Liverpool fans were slated on this board for expecting a strong season back in August, and look where they are now. Presumption is part of it. I can tell you're a bit new to the whole thing. Most Chelsea fans are. They really started winning in the late 1990s. It is what it is.

As for a comparison to 9er fans, come on. Chelsea is San Francisco, UK. Douchebag, thug fans with a despicable sense to them at matches, following a ridiculous manager who is constantly putting his players under pressure with his antics. Until 10 years ago Chelsea was basically Spurs. Gullit gave them a nice start, then a Russian steel magnate purchased the club and throws billions at its problems, a point not loss on its arrogant, ignorant fan base. Liverpool fans are 9er fans? right. have a look in the mirror sweetie. makeups running. classy to the end, singing through moments of silence all that. Get in their Twilight...

Yep, Jose is a players coach. Mata sure thought so. As did Alonso, Benzema and Ronaldo. Hazard now apparently. He took over a club that spent more money than anyone in the PL and immediately stated they couldnt win a title. Atta boy Jose, the "Special One" indeed...Thats why the best players in the world ousted him from Real and his best players at Chelsea were on record following the Madrid loss stating, as Hazard puts it "we arent set up to play football". Sounds so much like Harbaugh youd think they went to a training together. I've no problems with his in game tactics or his desire to be an attention whore. I coach the game and understand the requirements to winning. Sometimes its pretty, many times its not. But dont be ridiculous. He's a nuisance. The self appointed "Special One" He knows it, the world knows it, and Chelsea fans only embrace it to their own means. Whores in the fullest.

(Players coach? "When the comments come from a player like Eden it's normal because he's not the kind of player to sacrifice himself for the team," said Mourinho.

"He's not mentally ready to look to his left-back and leave his life for him."

Mourinho added: "Normally you get these kind of comments from players like him, from players that can't resolve a problem like we had in the first goal.

"If you see the first goal of Atletico you completely understand where the mistake was and why we conceded that goal."-- class act. still cant take responsibility for his own failure in that game. but happy to take credit for Gerrards slip. I'm sure players love it when their manager takes all the credit)

So congrats. You support a club backed by a billionaire, supported by arrogant douches and managed by the Portuguese Jim Harbaugh.

Trust me, i'm not mad about it. I'm just glad i'm not you. I'd rather have the last 4 years of Liverpool than the last 10 years of Chelsea.

Here you go. Liverpool fans to chelsea fans: -You aint got no history! Niner fans to Seahawk fans: We have five rings! You dont have a history!

The same exact thing. thanks for proving my point.

Btw. I supported Chelsea way before Abra bought the club. I can see where you anger comes from. Last sunday, oh what a great away game it was! Mourinho sure took his apprentice to school.

wait, suggesting people enjoy the histories of their related teams is somehow 9er like? Seahawks fans would never do that? (or, well, just about any sports fan base)..

christ youre a nunce. Thanks for proving my point.

Mourinho sure did, 25% possession and no shots in a game he had to win until someone slipped. Master. He did it again a couple days later. His players seem to be really bonding to the "master" as well.

again, not angry. just glad I'm not you. But I can see how you fit in with the rest of them. f---ing plastic

Personal insults, child like behaviour when your arguments dont hold, namecalling... Some might say, yep, thats a niners fan, others might say that it is just a result of lack of good parenting, but I sure cant say that its a typical Liverpool fan because I know many who are true class acts (not most, obviously). You can look in the mirror and see which one of us has shown class here. Then use that image as the typical supporter of their respective clubs. (Although I must admit I get it why someone goes completely apeshit when being compared to a niners fan... )

You want to diss Mourinho? Really? The only one who has won championships in the three biggest countries? The man who has won two Champions leagues? Who in his entire career has only lost four home games in national leagues... Yeah, I can handle you namecalling that man

Btw. Possession is one the most useless stats in Football. Just ask Bayern Munich, they had possession against Real Madrid in the semis..

Btw two. Brendan Rodgers, Mourinhos ex-apprentice, did learn something from his master. He handled the after game press conference in a very Mourinho-like way, claiming anyone can play defensive football like that. He turned the focus on himself instead of throwing Gerrard under the bus. Just like Mourinho so often turns the focus on himself (hence the players coach comment) and the useful idiots in the media get mad at Mourinho and leave the players who have made mistakes alone. Nicely done by Rodgers, and a very good job this year as a whole too.

TwilightError wrote:Personal insults, child like behaviour when your arguments dont hold, namecalling... Some might say, yep, thats a niners fan, others might say that it is just a result of lack of good parenting, but I sure cant say that its a typical Liverpool fan because I know many who are true class acts (not most, obviously). You can look in the mirror and see which one of us has shown class here. Then use that image as the typical supporter of their respective clubs. (Although I must admit I get it why someone goes completely apeshit when being compared to a niners fan... )

You want to diss Mourinho? Really? The only one who has won championships in the three biggest countries? The man who has won two Champions leagues? Who in his entire career has only lost four home games in national leagues... Yeah, I can handle you namecalling that man

Btw. Possession is one the most useless stats in Football. Just ask Bayern Munich, they had possession against Real Madrid in the semis..

Btw two. Brendan Rodgers, Mourinhos ex-apprentice, did learn something from his master. He handled the after game press conference in a very Mourinho-like way, claiming anyone can play defensive football like that. He turned the focus on himself instead of throwing Gerrard under the bus. Just like Mourinho so often turns the focus on himself (hence the players coach comment) and the useful idiots in the media get mad at Mourinho and leave the players who have made mistakes alone. Nicely done by Rodgers, and a very good job this year as a whole too.

I have to be honest (sparring aside) Twilight I was very unimpressed with Rodgers post game statements for the very reason you suggest he should be applauded. He did get taught a lesson, but not in deflecting criticism from his players but for bringing himself down. He looked bad and put Jose in a place to further extoll his control. He could have pointed to the tactical failures he didnt address. Instead he whined. I guess thats the difference between what you see in Mourinho and what I would want in my manager. Jose jumped all over it in the way only his ego can.

I am not dissing Mourinho as a manager. I like that he is one of the few managers that has a plan game by game. As a fan and coach, its always interesting. nor am I suggesting possession is the key to victory (far from the philosophy I put into my teams). but up until 46:20 Rodgers plan was working fine. the possession stat just shows the control Liverpool had in the game (coupled with no attempts by Chelsea to that point) Weighted posession, poised and patient attack, push Chelsea deep into their own area and with 3 back be finely balanced for a counter. Mourinho's idea of sitting deep was working in the effect he kept Liverpool at bay but he needed three points. The game was set for the same 0-0 draws he got vs. Arsenal and United. Without the slip, the game more than likley is a draw and Liverpool are 6 points from a title and Chelsea are without any chance. Can you honestly dispute that? What I take issue with is the notion Mourinho's "plan" led to three points. Liverpool's venerable talisman slipped. Its hard to see where Chelsea's plan was going to work without it. I'd say he held on long enough to get lucky. It worked, and he was lauded for it. I just dont buy it as tactical genious. This is where I was very frustrated with Rodgers. The team played anxiously, as if they needed the 3 points. In the end it cost them.

As for the class thing, you chose to go down the road of calling (or agreeing) Liverpool fans 9er like. I'm sure we can both agree as Hawks fans that is pretty low. My response remains, I see Chelsea as a club and a fan base as the utmost in ignorance and arrogance, a quality i define (although with a broad brush) 9er fans. I literally cannot see anything likeable in the club since Drogba left. We can agree to disagree I suppose. you'd just be wrong .

I know Liverpool fans generate the "all they care about is history" remarks. I can live with it. I think all fans take pride in their history. I'm sure Chelsea fans do as well. You wont catch me flaunting it. I was in high school the last time Liverpool lifted a league title.

Well I sure can agree you on the likeability of Drogba. The man is a god

It does not really matter who thinks what about Mourinhos plan against liverpool. Fact is it worked perfectly. Chelsea disrupted liverpools brilliant attack by manipulating the clock and took advantage of the opponents mistakes. It was the best tactic to win using chelseas strenghts. It did not work against Atletico but an aggressive attack with the has been strikers would have been even worse.. The better team won.

TwilightError wrote:Well I sure can agree you on the likeability of Drogba. The man is a god

It does not really matter who thinks what about Mourinhos plan against liverpool. Fact is it worked perfectly. Chelsea disrupted liverpools brilliant attack by manipulating the clock and took advantage of the opponents mistakes. It was the best tactic to win using chelseas strenghts. It did not work against Atletico but an aggressive attack with the has been strikers would have been even worse.. The better team won.

well, it matters in the fact its fun to speculate (and analyze, and analyze some more). It certainly allowed a win. But again, without the slip, its a draw. At that point Chelsea's out of the title race. I cant give Mourinho credit for coaching to draw a game he needed to win.

With Atleti, they showed more intent to attack. I will say that while the better team may have won, Chelsea was victim to some school boy mistakes in the back that inevitably cost them. at 1-0 that should have been it. instead they coughed up the advantage nearly immediately.

The one thing I love about Jose (and now Rodgers and Martinez) is you see a specific plan in place (unlike Wenger, Ferguson, Moyes who just roll out the same idea each game regardless of opponent. Ferguson on occassion was known to change formations to adapt. Wenger is notoriously arrogant in his tactics). These plans show an adventurous approach to each game and its importance. While Mourinho's "go-to" approach is his ability to defend stoutly and frustrate, it cant be denied how interesting it can make a game. Rodgers failed to adapt in the 2nd half which will be the lesson learned on his part

I dont think Jose coached for a draw in Liverpool. He just trusted on the counter attack, and it worked. Sometimes it doesnt but nothing always works. Twice he has nullified the best attack in PL, that being Liverpool and twice Chelsea has won City this season. It is the small teams who force Chelsea to be on control (not a strength of Chelsea) that gives us the problems.

Against Atletico It was evident that Chelsea played without Cech, who normally shouts to the defenders all the time and keeps them on formation. Hence some school boy mistakes. Scwarzer had some good saves but no second stringer can replace the coordinator Cech is, it takes routine.

TwilightError wrote:I dont think Jose coached for a draw in Liverpool. He just trusted on the counter attack, and it worked. Sometimes it doesnt but nothing always works. Twice he has nullified the best attack in PL, that being Liverpool and twice Chelsea has won City this season. It is the small teams who force Chelsea to be on control (not a strength of Chelsea) that gives us the problems.

Against Atletico It was evident that Chelsea played without Cech, who normally shouts to the defenders all the time and keeps them on formation. Hence some school boy mistakes. Scwarzer had some good saves but no second stringer can replace the coordinator Cech is, it takes routine.

what are your thoughts on Courtois? what a nice piece to have in the bank... bring him into the full squad next year or leave at Atleti (or sell him somewhere else?)