I'll reiterate again that I've seen the video and Steve was clearly calm, in control, and knew what he was doing the whole time. You can't work with such dangerous animals without gaining a completely intimate knowledge of every single inch you have to work with. Having seen it, I was never once under the impression that the child was in even a tiny bit of danger, and clearly his wife- who I think we can agree is a bit more orthodox than Steve- didn't think so, either. Wouldn't you take your kids away from some crazy nut who tries to feed them to a crocodile?

It was more of media blowing things out of proportion, and because very few people can relate to Steve's knowledge and would themselves have no clue how to deal with such a situation, they automatically transpose that same ignorance onto Steve, therefore assuming he was being negligent in the handling of his own child. That is simply incorrect.

I've seen a lot of my heroes die prematurely, a lot of people I've wanted to meet before I die. I can honestly say I feel the least sorry for Steve because of how he lived and all the stuff he got to do. I felt a bit more for guys like Chuck Shuldiner and Eddie Guerrero... Chuck because he was, by all accounts, a nice and brilliant man and terrific musician who was taken away by something that he saw coming and could do nothing to stop. Eddie was a completely difference story altogether that I'll spare you- if you know wrestling, you already know why so many die young, if you don't, you don't care.

I'd also like to share something that the vast majority of people who have seen Steve's show would not had noticed- Steve's handling of snakes differed vastly from that normally employed by herpetologists. Steve seemed to have sixth sense as it relates to having a feel for what mood the snakes were in and what they were about to do next. He had a way of free handling dangerous toxic reptiles and capturing them that no other herpetologist would be willing to try. The standard way to handle venomous snakes is in a very restrained way- you hold them in a very specific way behind the head so that they can't reach around and bite you. Despite careful handling, 99.99% of all herpetologists are bitten by dangerously venomous snakes at some point in their career. Steve, despite his refusal to restrain these animals, was never bitten, at least, up until around 2003, I lost track of his career after that without my cable TV. Steve seemed to share a soul with the animals he understood, to the point where he knew exactly what they were going to, it was eerily uncanny. That's what made him stand out to me.

For the record, my favorite guy is British herpetologist Mark O'Shea, who also has done TV.

Regardless of whether he was 'in control' or 'knew what he was doing' you still cannot ignore the fact that these animals are 'wild'. No matter how well he knew them or how many years he's worked with them they still retain that 'wild' streak and thus have the potential and un-predictability to attack or turn on him. Many handlers have worked with an animal for years and then become supper, having a 6th sense of sorts can't predict that, else he'd not have a Stingray wedged in his chest cavity right now

I also think John may have been referring to UK TV shows that feature zoo/safari park vets rather than your run of the mill domestic fella who spades Bertha the cat lady's kitties (I bet she smells of cat pee) I could be wrong?

So Steve Irwin wasn't doing a job for which he was handsomely remunerated? Yeah, OK...

never once did i say he wasn't paid a decent chunk of change. what i meant was that he didn't start doing what he did to become rich and famous. i doubt you started fixing peoples taxes to be a good person. i fix peoples credit scores..but i don't think that makes me any more or less of a good person. i don't care about their credit, i do care about having a decent job so i can afford living.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnmansley

There are vets on TV who do ten times more for animal welfare yet don't get half the money that Irwin did, a hundredth of the recognition and will not be mourned with such reverie.

for each individual animal i could agree to "ten times more" but i can't say that for animals as a whole. what steve was doing, was spreading awareness about all types of creatures...especially ones that are normally feared/hated (many times for unfounded reasons) and as stated a few times...the money for steve came years and years after he got into it. any vet on tv gets paid a lot too..don't kid yourself on that one. tv = fame and being on tv regular = fame and fortune (95% of the time at least)

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnmansley

He's doing his job. If he did it for the love of animals, nobody would ever have heard of him to mourn him as he'd no doubt be working for a charity.

thats where you are wrong. he does love animals, and that is the founding idea that got him to where he is. he didn't just one day say "hey, i think i'll call up my friend at the tv station and start a show about ....hmmm....animals thats it!!" i can't deny that he had a "marketable" personality though ..which he probably embellished as he got more into the routine of being the host of a show.

if someone came to you and said "we'd like to offer you a 30 min slot weekdays, and a large paycheck each month if you would just fix peoples taxes for our tv show" would you say "fuck off! i'm doing this because i like helping people..not cause i want to make money!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnmansley

I bet you've called Metallica sellouts at some point haven't you? If he was so into it, why didn't he devote all of his time to a charity who no doubt could make use of his expertise? There are so many other ways of bringing animal welfare to the forefront: Have you heard of the RSPCA? Who runs it? I don't know either, yet this animal charity is exceptionally well known.

i see your point about metallica..and yes i have made fun of them on several occasions. at least erwin never sued any of his following. though he didn't have something he was selling that could be easily taken by others without paying. this is a whole different thread in itself though..

you think the only thing he does involving animals is with that show?? cmon man!

nah i dont know who runs rspca either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnmansley

How is my Michael Jackson reference a bad one? Both endangered their respective childrens' lives and arguing over who placed them in the more perilous position is moot.

i personally would not have taken my child in there, but if anyone can make a judgement call about such a thing...i think the one most qualified would be the "crocodile hunter" himself. i myself haven't seen the video (have you?) but i would compare mj's dangling the baby over the ledge..more to if erwin held his baby over the gaping mouth of a huge croc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnmansley

So you're saying that parading your kid 6 feet from a crocodile is a "lapse in judgement"? It's fucking negligent and irresponsible and would be a tad more serious than a "mistake" if that crocodile had killed his kid.

well obviously, if the kid is never in with the crocs, he can never be killed by them. but personally i don't think the kid was in much danger at all. sure there is the freak chance the croc would flip out...once again, the person who would know best about this..would be erwin. the probablility of that thing attacking the kid probably relates to other rare instances of death. first off..if it lunged into attack mode ...it would go for steve right off the bat. and if it managed to take him down, baby would be right where steve left it on land (assuming he isn't a real dick that would drag his child into the water with him to die) and the croc would drag him into the water. the croc would be pretty full after and not very interested in that tiny little baby. not to mention he would probably do anything he could to protect the baby if the shit did hit the fan.

he knew of the probability of attack more than cnn or either of us.

2006-09-07, 22:37

Ten Ton Alien

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahmers Fridge

Regardless of whether he was 'in control' or 'knew what he was doing' you still cannot ignore the fact that these animals are 'wild'.

indeed, like that dumbass who was studying bears with his wife and got his shit ruined (i think it was made into a movie).

it doesn't matter how much "intimacy" you have with wild animals, they're still wild and they will, eventually, regardless of who's standing on their way, snap and attack.

the planet is alive and wild animals is one way of keeping things under control (i could elaborate on this but i'll wait for the right topic).

Regardless of whether he was 'in control' or 'knew what he was doing' you still cannot ignore the fact that these animals are 'wild'. No matter how well he knew them or how many years he's worked with them they still retain that 'wild' streak and thus have the potential and un-predictability to attack or turn on him. Many handlers have worked with an animal for years and then become supper, having a 6th sense of sorts can't predict that, else he'd not have a Stingray wedged in his chest cavity right now

It's not a matter of having the potential or unpredictability to attack him, the fact of the matter is that there is 100% predictability that if you come within a certain distance, you will be charged. And if you come within a closer distance than that, you will be dead. When exactly is the last time any herpetologist, well known or not, has been eaten by a crocodile? Nevermind the absolute highest of crocodile specialists, as Steve was. It's simply hard for someone without such ability to understand how Steve could not get eaten, and like I said, transpose their own ignorance onto a situation that does warrant it.

I also think John may have been referring to UK TV shows that feature zoo/safari park vets rather than your run of the mill domestic fella who spades Bertha the cat lady's kitties (I bet she smells of cat pee) I could be wrong?

He's making reference to zoologists and vets in general taking a stand against the Berthas of the world. It wouldn't really matter if it were in reference to Dr. Fixdog or Jack Hanna- we are still dealing with animal rights, which is, at best, superfluous among the strong issues we as a society have to deal with daily. At worst, it distracts from much more important issues that affect mankind to it's core such as crime, poverty, and conservation.

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2006-09-08, 05:57

PST 88

Forum Daemon

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Join Date: Aug 2001

Posts: 4,982

The sun beams down on a brand new day
No more welfare tax to pay
Unsightly slums gone up in flashing light
Jobless millions whisked away
At last we have more room to play
All systems go to kill the poor tonight
Gonna kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the poor
Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the poor
Kill, kill, kill, kill ,kill the poor tonight
Behold the sparkle of champagne
The crime rate's gone, feel free again
Oh, life's a dream with you, Miss Lily White
George Clooney on the screen today
Convinced the liberals it's okay
So let's get dressed and dance away the night
Gonna kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the poor
Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the poor
Kill, kill, kill, kill ,kill the poor tonight

That would leave you free just to worry about conservation.

On another note, let's stop talking about some dumb stunt the guy pulled a few years ago. The guy lived 44 years and held his child somewhat near a crocodile for about two minutes of that life; that's about 1/15768000 of his life, give or take. As you can see, that's way out of proportion with the portion of this thread devoted to discussing this one event. So move on to discussing the many times he moved his bowels and masturbated.

2006-09-08, 08:20

brainsforbreakfast

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Join Date: Oct 2003

Location: Yggdrassyl

Posts: 4,321

Shit, he's been dead for 5 days now and this thread is still going. Can we carry on and forget him like we do every other celebrity?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Darko

Quote:

Originally Posted by Requiem

Why would you sig that?

Why not? Why would you sig me saying that I hate you? I was serious there, too.

im gonna celebrate this nuts (in a very good way) life by drinking too much and fucking around with some dangerous animals. in fact we've got a large stingray population here AND theyre in season...so maybe i'll have to drop a retaliatory strike on Irwins behalf.

2006-09-08, 19:21

Blood Red Bass

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Quote:

Originally Posted by OpethFan

Like Jesus?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Darko

Compare these people to the norm, say, Muhammed SuiÁmez for instance who seems to think that lots of poorly strung together riffs spaced awkwardly around fancy monotonous sweeps covers up the fact that his ideas and songs are really quit boring.

I started watching it and the moment i finished reading what it said, i was like i know exactly where this is fucking going. They can't fucking fool me witht hese watch closely at the screen shits.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Darko

...Its very annoying to keep having to hear some socially-disabled teen come on these boards talking about all the drugs he's started doing so that he can maybe grasp onto some kind of positive response so he feels better about himself and what he's doing.

About requiem. Aint it the truth...

2007-01-06, 23:18

Requiem

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It didn't even make me flinch one bit. Who ever made that video wasted a brief moment of their precious life.

2007-01-07, 01:11

BassBehemoth

Die Young.

Join Date: May 2003

Location: Hellifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Posts: 8,633

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmfreak

I started watching it and the moment i finished reading what it said, i was like i know exactly where this is fucking going. They can't fucking fool me witht hese watch closely at the screen shits.

haha, yeah I figured it out too before his "video" was shown.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by moe_blunts

you done told me lots of thangs bout beer n shit and canada. have a grand ol cunt of a good time.

RIP moe.

2007-01-07, 01:40

CompelledToLacerate

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Join Date: Mar 2006

Location: St. Louis

Posts: 3,003

Goddamn it, that scared the shit out of me. I nearly spat my shellaroni out.

It's really sad, all those people who don't understand why we shouldn't act like our enemies. The real victory is not only killing and imprisoning the terrorists, but also letting civilized manners override the lust for revenge, once the battle is over.