i had a posting about an hour ago and took it off, well im going to say what i feel anyway, everyone else does, im not looking for any fights or problems, but i want to say that i want to see lumberjocks back to a more peaceable WOOD WORKING SITE, because that is what it is, it started out that way and forums with POLITICS and RELIGION were not allowed, and why they are now i don’t understand, Ive looked at these threads and see personal attacks, and just down right bad behavior of grown people, and to me its a black mark to this site, and to me i feel its not needed, and i want to see it change, we have lost many good wood workers over this very topic, and now have folks who are here to just discuss politics, so im just asking for others to support this if they feel the same way to say so, i understand we have many different people here who wont agree, that’s fine, but im asking for some change, and im asking for the battling to stop, these topics are to volatile and it has proven so here. i ask for wood working only, and good personal interaction like what we use to have. ive been here for three years now and i feel a part of me is invested here, we the wood workers make or break this site, and i dont want any back alley fighting going on , i want to see the wonderful people that wood workers are.thanks lumber jocks for letting me have my say, and thanks for the hard work the owners do.

Amen brother! (oops, that too much religion? lol) I agree 100% that there is too much arguing and other childish things going on here, i want it back the way it was too, when it was woodworkers talking about woodworking, sharing helpful hints, tips and techniques and answering other woodworkers questions. There are places for religious and political views but one of those places is not LumberJocks, everyone has different outlooks on those two subjects and everyone is entitled to believe and think what they want but you dont need to verbalize your thoughts on the political and religious front everywhere you go. Thanks for posting this grizz, maybe we will be able to see some change in our future and get back to the good ole days.

-- A hammer dangling from a wall will bang and sound like work when the wind blows the right way.

Absolutely! I’ve been here over 2 1/2 years and I yearn for what it was like earlier. These political discussions are destroying what was a great site. There are lots of other places for such discussions.

Yes but different sites come with an entirely different group of people. I don’t want to go discuss every topic under the sun each with a different group of random strangers who happen to feel like talking about that subject at the moment.

I don’t participate in political threads anymore. 99% of the time I don’t even read the thread if it’s political. It’s not that hard to do. Just because I don’t want to participate, doesn’t mean I think others shouldn’t be allowed to. It’s that simple.

Once political/religious topics are banned, in comes heavy-handed censorship. A harmless conversation steers towards anything that hints politics or religion and in swoop the whiners, who call in the moderators (I’m telling mommy!) , and the thread gets closed or chopped up. Censorship sucks.

I too remember the “nicer” days where 99% of the members were all for helping one another and the kind acts were much more abundant. Its not to say that it doesnt happen anymore because it does but most of the time its overshadowed. Its too bad that we have to sift through the rubbish to find the gold.

Remember?

Shop song of the dayThe time Patrons truck broke down.The time MY WIFE dropped the clippers down the toilet

These were the off topic’s that kept us loose and let us goof around showing the other side of being a woodworker. Friends were made in abundance, enemies were non existent. Ok this is gettin all John Lennon … anyway thanks Grizz.

-- "there aren’t many hand tools as awe-inspiring as the #8 jointer. I mean, it just reeks of cast iron heft and hubris" - Smitty

I agree. I come to this forum for woodworking, so I really don’t look at the off-topic stuff. I’m more interested in projects and contests and tips and jigs. If I want political discussions and other such, I suspect I could find a website dedicated specifically to that. All the off-topic stuff here doesn’t bother me, because I don’t look at it! Problem solved for me! I certainly would hate for anyone to leave, or to be upset enough to leave. Hopefully all those who enjoy arguing will get their fill or pop a gasket or something. Life’s too short, don’t waste it!

WaWho!!!!Glad to see these answers to the present problems with this site. I have always said that if you want to get onto a site that You will never hear a negative remark, and always have someone to help you with your wood working skills and be able to see the finest wood workers in the WORLD not just around where you live then join the LumberJocks. Nicely put guys and glad to see it posted.

There is certainly nothing wrong with wanting folks to have good manners Grizz. So kudos for bringing up the subject.

I don’t like the discussions about controversial subjects either. I joined LJ to enjoy the company of other woodworkers, not to argue with them. I’m sure we all break the rules sometimes, mostly in small and inconsequential ways, but I agree that some people can’t help themselves from bringing in some negativity, so I just don’t participate in those threads.

It seems to me that an overwhelming majority of LJ members are very polite and positive. That in itself says a lot about the typical member without others needing to know his political or religious affiliations. I don’t mind if the rules are changed, but I can’t say that it is a burning issue with me as long as I can opt out on the negative discussions.

Well….........................................................A while back, taking a cue from a politcal prof at the local college, I joined the “you win” category of debate. Whenever I get into a “debate” I just say to myself….’let them win.’ LOL It’s so much easier to believe strongly in what YOU believe than in wasting a hell of a lot of energy trying to convert the unconvertable. I like visiting and participating on lumberjocks because there are people of like minds here with a similar goal in mind…to learn, share, and show off. I have done all but lessof the last than I’d like. LOL

Folks, life is short. If you wanna spend it getting all worked up over something you absolutely cannot change….knock yourself out. I gave up a long time ago. It aint worth it. I dont visit any of the non-woodworking forums on here because I AM HERE for the wood…that and that only. I could go on and on but I will just close by saying….if it bothers you…dont go read it. Most of the people that we are talking about are insecure to begin with and I just have no time for BS(not band saw) in my life today. Make a choice and stick with it.

Dont know if any of the above made any sense to y’all but it made sense to me.

I totally agree, Grizz. I too remember when Lumberjocks was about woodworking and woodworking RELATED issues. I find myself coming here less and less… we have lost some really good woodworkers and posters due to the inflammatory rhetoric of some morons…. It is time to go back to our roots.

You have my vote Grizz.I almost never look in the “off topics”. When I do I find that it usually spoils my mental image of some “friend” or other. The anonymity of the internet allows us all to be friends and buddies in woodworking without having to know all about each others’ views on divisive, non woodworking topics. I like it that way.

-- Paul M ..............If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats he would have given us fiberglass trees. http://prmdesigns.com/

I agree with you buddy about Ljs subjects should focus on woodworking but there’s always are a dozen or so folks that love the topics on non shop talk and a few of them love to talk about politics an religion the most. Unless Martin bands those subjects(which I doubt will happen) all we can do is click on the “hide non shop talk” toggle button and enjoy the rest of the forum. I miss the good old days too and a lot of the folks who have left . I’m sure glad you and Ellen and a long list of good folks are still here. In short lets all be kind and respectful of each other not matter what forum we are in.