At the risk of getting outraged over nothing, I thought I would do a post examining the possible impact of this “bonus dance” that Tom Bergeron (or was it Brooke?) alluded to – very casually – last night. Keep in mind that this post is only my opinion and that I am GUESSING entirely at what they might have planned. We’re just hypothesizing here and won’t likely know until the press release or the show itself what is going to happen. I’m also kinda hoping that if I write this post and people get pissed about it enough that the producers WON’T DO IT. If that doesn’t work, then all the fan groups will know to be prepared with lots of accounts – which is probably what the producers want, but there you have it.

THEORETICALLY, it is a winner-take-all dance, and a Cha Cha at that. Courtney tells me on Twitter that this info is gleaned from the Wiki page. Everyone knows to eye Wikipedia with suspicion, but the person doing that entry seems to have their crap together. Also, Vogue tells me that Kym Johnson (in a video posted earlier) says the words “winner take all”. If you watch the Ralph and Karina video, you will get an explanation of how it’s going to work. In a word? Stupid. So, that is the theory we will go with. In addition, in order to construct this post with no dancing, we will give the dancers scores similar to what they earned this past week, i.e. they will reward Chelsea heavily and try their dammdest to get rid of Ralph. If you are worried about your favorite, you should be – just switch the names around to get different results. IF they are doing this simply to protect Chelsea (and really, why else would it be needed?? Anyone can smell fish emmanating from this scenario), then any of the remaining three will go home over her. Most likely. Always gotta add the qualifier with this show. One never knows for sure.

So, here is our hypothetical scenario:

The Theoretical Judges Scores and Percentages

Place

Celebrity

Score

Percentage

1.

Chelsea

73

31.33

2.

Hines

57

24.46

3.

Kirstie

53

22.75

5.

Ralph

50

21.46

Just looking at those numbers should give everyone the heebie jeebies. It does me. It also pisses me off. So, if this is what happens, you can see that Ralph is down by typical numbers from Hines and Kirstie, but Chelsea?? Not so much. Here’s what Ralph would have to do to stick around:

– He would have to get 12,880 more votes per million votes cast than Kirstie, OR;
– He would have to get 30,050 more votes per million votes cast than Hines, OR;
– He would have to get 98,720 more votes per million votes cast than Chelsea.

You understand how ridiculous this is yet? No? Okay, well, let’s look at Kirstie’s numbers. She needs the following to stick around if Ralph is taken out of the equation:

– She would have to get 17,170 more votes per million votes cast than Hines, OR;
– She would have to get 85,840 more votes per million votes cast than Chelsea.

Hines would then have to get 68,700 more votes per million votes cast to pass Chelsea. That is almost 3 TIMES the number of votes that Ralph had to get the other night to stay over Romeo and we thought that was big??

I can cast a whole lot of aspersions on why they feel the need to do this, but at the end of the day the motivation seems clear – someone ain’t getting the votes they want him/her to be getting OR someone is getting a tremendous number of votes that the producers are trying to overcome. One or the other. Or both. If, for some reason, they want Chelsea in the final (she does work for Disney, which owns ABC), she will need this kind of boost in order to stick around. If Ralph can get more votes than Romeo whom he was 6 points behind, he can probably beat Chelsea in a similar situation.

But it’s not just Ralph – she would be vulnerable in a normal scenario to ANY of the other three remaining celebs. Like I was trying to explain on Twitter last night, Chelsea is up against an iconic movie Actor, a very likable, very well-known actress and a football player with a Steeler Nation behind him – a guy who is fresh off the Superbowl. Chelsea is the female version of Kyle – but not as likeable and with much stiffer completion than Kyle had. Kyle was up against Brandy, Jennifer and Bristol. I think Brandy and Bristol were a piece of cake for Kyle to beat – the same cannot be said of either Kirstie, Ralph or Hines. I get the feeling that all three are powerhouses in their own rights. Ralph kinda proved it the other night.

So, you still not seeing the picture? If this ends up close to reality, what would it take for Chelsea (or whoever gets the 15 points) to be eliminated?? ALL of the following would have to happen:

– Ralph would have to get 98,720 more votes per million votes cast than her, AND;
– Kirstie would have to get 85,840 more votes per million votes cast than Chelsea, AND;
– Hines would have to get 68,700 more votes per million votes cast than Chelsea.

How likely do YOU think that is?? Not bloody likely in my book, unless the only people voting for her are Mark’s fans and everyone else knows how this game is played. I believe the largest vote margin ever overcome since I’ve been keeping track is when Kurt got 48k more votes than Audrina – and we were all stunned by that, if I remember correctly.

So, let’s assume for a moment that the judges aren’t all harshed out on Ralph and are not determined to see the backside of him. Although if you watched their faces when Romeo got eliminated last night you may find that hard to believe. Anyway, let’s say that Kirstie and Ralph get the same scores of 56, while Hines and Chelsea keep the same scores as above – mighty generous, right? Eh, not so much. What that means is for Chelsea to go home over one of the other three, ALL of the following needs to happen:

– Ralph has to get 70,250 more votes per million votes cast than her, AND;
– Kirstie ALSO has to get 70,250 more votes per million votes cast than her, AND;
– Hines has to get 66,150 more votes per million votes cast than her.

How possible is that? Well, thanks to the voting numbers being kept secret, we have no real clue. But I have to think that it’s NOT possible, otherwise, why do this at all? Just to make the audience nuts? To engineer a “shocking elimination”? Well, it’s possible. But this is a game with severely diminishing returns – how long before the audience decides they have no say, the show is rigged and just tune out all together?? You can do stunts like this occasionally, but if you continually over reach because you think you can get away with it, you may suddenly find the tipping point. And it’s over. The audience isn’t stupid – at some point they will see the man behind the curtain.

What is possible motivation for this? Well, it makes some of the audience outraged and they will write blogs like this or chatter all over the net and basically create a stir similar to what they got for Bristol making it to the finals. Ratings. Plus, everyone could vote extra hard with many, many accounts; I have to believe that there is revenue attached to on-line voting. Probably A LOT. All those hits combined with all those ads? Yup. Money. If they do what I think they will do and give Chelsea 15 extra points, they have the Disney kid (the company that owns ABC and DWTS) in the finals. She doesn’t need to win, but she’ll have been on every single week of the show. And if she goes back to Disney, well enough said. Winning the show has been pretty kind to Nicole Scherzinger – she is now one of the hosts on The X Factor. Just sayin’.

Possible drawbacks? Well, good ratings NOW could spell ever dwindling ratings down the road. You can only screw fans over so many times before they just throw in the towel. Also, if the spread is TOO high between all the couples, you could have people just give up and not vote as much. Then there’s all that lost revenue. Any other possible drawbacks? I can’t think of any right now, and that’s not good.

I'm a nerd and proud of it. Two degrees in geology also means I love BEER. :-) I'm also a Derek lover - proud of that too. So don't scream at those of us on this site and call us a bunch of "biased Derek-lovers" - it's just ME. :-) It may sound like I hate DWTS at times, but really, I'm just a snarky nitpicker from way back. And I'm cynical and jaded too. But I do love DWTS. :-)

If you’re a fan of the show that enjoys the fact that the viewer vote can trump some ridiculous scores from the judges – this should piss you off. I don’t care who you’re a fan of. The judges could bestow this magic immunity charm on any of the remaining 4, guaranteeing them safe passage to the finals – even if they aren’t that popular with viewers. So yeah, all those verified accounts you created to vote for your favorite? Now you’re going to have to double or even triple the amount you create in order to make the same impact and counteract this absurd new “thing” the producers have cooked up. If anyone doesn’t believe you when you try to explain how BAD this is, send them the link to this post to show them just how serious this is. And then go create some more verified accounts

I should also point out that someone suggested earlier that we try to engineer an elimination by voting for everyone other than that person. DO NOT try to do that – it’s just not a good idea. Splitting votes never works. If you have a favorite, give ALL your votes to that ONE person. Period.

And by some miracle Ralph can conjur up enough votes to stay then it could be Hines going home. Without the 15 pts and the fanbase of Kirstie he could be doomed. I guess no matter what, ABC and Disney want their kid in the finals. Something smells rotten to me.

It’s not a guarantee that they pick Chelsea – I just think we can be pretty darn sure it won’t be Ralph or Kirstie. I think if they don’t pick Chelsea, she goes home. If they do pick her it becomes less certain.

@Princess Heidi – Absolutely, with the fanbase of the other three, most definitely Chelsea will go home. Can you imagine a final consisting of the top 3 favorites it would be awesome. But no, ABC and Disney want to ruin everything and have us look at Marks face up until the end.

This is stupid. No matter who they give that 15 points to, I call major bull on that. It completely contradicts the show’s “the viewers are half” idea, it actually gives the judges most or ALL of the power, which is stupid because they have a tendency to smoke crack. Whoever they give that 15 point increase to is pretty much guranteed a spot in the finale. I agree with Evaine, if they’re going to give the others squat, just give the winner a slight increase, 5 points. 15 is ridiculous. I wasn’t going to vote next week, but I think I’m going to help out whoever gets screwed that night and NOT give any votes to the 15 point winner, even if it’s Chelsea.

Brooke also mentioned it at the close of the results show, saying it was a “winner take all cha-cha”. This is absolutely ridiculous and insulting – I feel like the producers are telling me I’m too stupid to recognize an entertaining dance when I see it.

If the understanding is correct, this seems like such an extreme thing to do and a big change from any other season. Why would you do it other than to ensure a place in the finals for someone? Of the four, who really needs that insurance? I have to agree, it does seem like Chelsie. If that’s the case, I don’t think they’d do something this extreme because of the Disney connection though. They are motivated by ratings and money from advertising, and the Disney connection wouldn’t have an impact on that. I think it is because they want to keep the youth demo rating as high as possible. Isn’t that the coveted demo and where the advertising dollars are? Every point or fraction of a point makes a difference, and I bet they’ve determined if it’s a Ralph/Hines/Kirstie final they will lose some of the young viewers. It doesn’t matter if the number is that big or even if it impacts overall ratings, any hit to the youth demo number is probably unacceptable. Now maybe the Disney connection influenced the choice between Chelsie over Romeo to keep a young team and make sure they make the finals, but I don’t think that’s the primary motivation now.

Don’t mean to spam the post, but I had another thought – are TPTB angling to save Chelsea, and the supposed (much valued) 18-49 demographic that might come with her, or is it Hines and the football-watchers that they’re trying to hang onto? Seems to me that it has to be one of those two. Couple that with Courtney’s observation that Hines has never been in the faux “bottom two”, or even “in jeopardy” (in fact, he’s the first to be called safe most weeks), and it makes me wonder if his voting fan base is getting complacent, and his numbers are going soft. Just my opinion.

Im still not convinced that Chelsea will get the 15 pts. It would be so obvious that ABC would be making sure their Disney girl gets a push to the finale with a point spread like that.

Media coverage is one thing, but negative media coverage is something else. Would it benefit DWTS to have the conspiracy theories all over the media? Once there is doubt, its almost impossible to regain your credibility. It that what they would want?

Ok, I need to understand what the judges have against Ralph. He has a great attitude on the dance floor, a nice relationship with his partner, he’s popular, and he’s given us some great dancing and he was inspirational last week. The judges don’t want this guy in the final? I’d say Kirstie is just as I had described Ralph. Hines has the football fans and he’s likable, plus he’s got a great partner and is consistent. If this “Winner takes All” dance is designed for Chelsea, then why? If she is not getting enough votes as the other 3, then that means people would rather see the other 3 more than Chelsea. This 15 point cushion is so unfair. BUT out of the 4 left, I think Kirstie had the best Cha Cha and that was in week 1! So it could cushion Kirstie, if her VW and PD doesn’t get scored too high. Hines has AT and Salsa. Chelsea has rumba and another dance. Ralph has Salsa and another dance. Darn it, I think Ralph will need those 15 points most!

I agree with what some others have said. Why 15 points? That would create a huge difference in points from just first to second place. Call it a “judge’s save,” or only award a few extra points to the winner.

I really wonder if this is an attempt to avoid all the drama of last season’s semi-finale with Bristol beating out Brandy. Was that the week that the mystery white powder was being sent to the studio? If that’s the case, I can understand where they’re coming from, BUT I don’t think that’s necessary this season. The remaining four contestant’s ability is fairly close (closer than Bristol and Brandy or Jennifer anyway), and in my opinion, they all deserve to be in the finale. I doubt next week’s elimination would have caused any outrage, but now it just might! If that’s what ABC was trying to avoid, then they screwed up.

Chelsea: Crisp, clean steps, cute as a button, strong dancer. I like her, but Mark has completely turned me off to them. However, I think SHE deserves to be in the finals – not so much him.

Hines: Makes difficult choreography look oh so easy, love the smooth steps, the light-up-a-room smile, the partnership with Kym. He has been consistently in the top from week 1 and, therefore, I think he deserves to be in the finals.

Kirstie: Fun, funny, love-love-LOVE her with Maks, but she is probably the weakest dancer in the group. It’s hard to imagine a final without her in it, so I think she deserves to be there. I don’t think she will be able to pull off 3 dances though.

Ralph: Sweet, emotional, thrives-under-pressure-though-inconsistent dancer with a bum knee. I don’t know if he can pull off 3 dances either. But the recovery after Karina’s fall, pushing through the two dances last night…he is clearly fighting tooth and nail to get to the finals, so I think he deserves to be there – providing his knee can withstand it.

How to choose? I don’t want anyone to go home.

I was thinking about the final last season and I could clearly remember Jennifer and Kyle but I could not remember who the 3rd celeb was for anything. Then it hit me – Bristol! Ugh. I had totally blocked it out, it was so maddening. And she was there thanks to the meddling (horrific over-scoring) of the judges. This season I don’t think anyone is that bad, or doesn’t deserve it, so if the judges have to meddle it won’t be that big a deal to me.

You guys could be on to something with the demographics deal. It also occurs to me that the producers may not be in collusion with the judges, but they DO know how the dancers dance and the judges can be on crack. They could be playing the odds themselves.

Sandy, I think that no matter who gets the 15 points, there’s going to be some seriously outraged fan groups. How can there not be when people realize what an extreme advantage it gives one person. Hell, even if Kirstie is scored low, but then gets the 15 points, she pushes Chelsea out easily. No matter who gets those 15 points, it should be controversial.

This is completely screwed up, I’ll tell you that. What is it the producers are trying to do? If the producers want the best dancer to stay then why are they letting us vote? Only a few or less percentages of the viewers know a thing about ballroom dancing, what did the producers expect??? That we all know everything about ballroom dancing and the best dancer would always win? The producers are delusional if they think that.

You know, they did scratch some marathon off from this season (don’t know why) for some reason so I guess there’s still time to do the same for this ridiculous Cha cha group dance. Tell ABC how you feel about this idea! Don’t know if they’ll do it anyway or if there’s time for them to scratch it and do something else but at least we can tell them how we feel about this. This is wrong. Wrong for the producers to try and take over who makes the finals and who wins by doing this. I agree, 5 extra points is fine but 15? Something is going on.http://abc.go.com/site/contact-us

Another thing, We have seen that Chelsea is not the judges dream girl. Who is the one person who has gotten praise every single week even when they fall flat on their butts, Who is the one couple who has more peaople cracking up and getting viewers every week, and who is the person who who was told they were ” Born to Cha Cha ” KIRSTIE! We have seen Mark and Chelsea get ripped apart ” Jive ” or given some tough criticizem by atleast one judge ” V. Waltz, Paso, and Salsa” . Also I think that Kirstie has two dances that dont really fit her next week, the Paso and the V. Waltz. Paso just does not seem to suit her and ballroom isn’t exactly her strong suit, its makes perfect sense to throw in a Cha Cha ” One of Kirsite’s best ” and give X amount of points to her ” Havn’t seen 15 posted anywhere.Yeah but shes has a huge fanbase, right? ” More than likely yes but what if Ralph’s is huge-er After all just one vote more to Ralph and the producers dont get their Kirtstie Freestyle. Just say’in

I still think the immunity is intended for Hines. The judges seem almost as sick of Mark as some of us are, and while they probably also feel sorry for Chelsea they’re not gonna let it affect their scoring. But Hines has been their favorite all season.

If I’m right, then Chelsea will not make it to the finals. I wouldn’t be at all upset about that.

Can’t imagine they’ll change it now – I suppose the only hope if there is enough negative comments around is that they might make it more like the marathon and have points given in descending order.

My biggest problem (after the totally ridiculous advantage given to one couple) is my understanding that it seems likely to be done on the results show so the viewers won’t be able to use their votes to try and combat it (no matter how unlikely that is, Heidi!)

My suspicious mind would suggest that they will use the cushion to save whichever one of their intended finalists is in the bottom two and doing it on Tuesday means they will know which way to go!

And before people start saying that the judges don’t do that, think it is fairly clear this season that there are double standards at play. My only consolation is that once it gets to the final, votes should be able to counter any silly tricks and choose the winner.

@Lisa – You could be onto something here, the thought that the judges may use this bonus dance to save one of the celebs in the bottom 2 that they feel should fill the final spot in the finale is something worth thinking about. Because 2 of them would be safe already and the looming question is whom fills the final spot…. hmmmm interesting thought.

Interesting to think of possible bottom 2 pairing and how it would play out with the judges. Best dancing or favorites..or both. It could backfire big time..

My top 3 favorites are in the semi-finals and that has never happened for me before, I would love for all 3 of them to make the finale, but the judges probably wont let that happen. Im actually not looking forward to this Monday night..

Where the hell did this number of “15” come from? The judges scores have always been based on a 10 pt scale. It’s bad enough that they’re even doing this BS and now they’re throwing in an extra 5 pts just for the f#€k of it?? You’re pissing me off ABC!!!

me again, just thinking. I wonder if it is a “winner COULD take all” 15 points. As Stephanie said, where did 15 come from. That’s easily divisible by 3 – judges. If each judge gets a 5 paddle to give to one pair, it is conceivable to have one pair get all 15. Or if it is spread to three, does five extra points pretty much guarantee that those three make it into the finals (Princess Heidi, you are the math queen – I’m not sure how much a diff those five points really are). Just a thought.

All season long I’ve felt the judges have manipulated the scoring (overscoring some, and underscoring others, especially Ralph), but this is really the last straw! It’s just plain WRONG!! It’s so not fair and stupid!! How more obvious can they be about playing favorites/manipulating things? I am totally disgusted, and will send ABC my comments. I’m REALLY worried about Ralph, seems like the judges are doing everything they can to make him leave. I think he really deserves to be in the finals. I also don’t understand what the judges have against him. He’s sweet, a great dancer, has a good work ethic, a food relationship with his pro partner, etc. What’s not to like? I just don’t get it, and it’s wrong.

@SueB – We kicked that idea around yesterday – that maybe each judge gets 5 points to give out to whomever they want – but Buttercup (our show insider, who has never led us astray and gives us a heads-up on the music each week) seems fairly certain that it’s just a 15 point dump on one couple, rather than potentially being divvied up among more than one couple. And unfortunately, the “winner take all” moniker seems to imply just that – the winner takes ALL of the points. However, if the judges do each get 5 points to give out, it’s a SLIGHTLY less scary scenario – but what if all 3 of them pick the same couple to give their 5 points to? It wouldn’t surprise me at all. Or even 10 points to one couple and 5 to another – that seems to be a popular division whenever the judges have to vote on a dance-off. It seems like it was often Bruno & Carrie Ann voting for one couple and Len voting for another. Even then it’s a big advantage to one couple, a slight advantage to another, and the other 2 left to fend for themselves. Any way you cut it – this bonus dance is still scary, because it could potentially render our votes nearly useless in determining who advances to the finals. And we have no way of knowing for sure how it’s going to shake out – there has been no press release, and the pros haven’t said anything too specific…heck, they themselves may not know for sure how this whole thing is going to work.

I don’t normally get “soapboxy” like this, but guys – PLEASE spread the word about this…to ALL of the teams. Kanenballers, GMaks, Kamacchios, and Hinenkyms – this affects everyone, because it takes away some of the power of the voters. Let people know how unfair this is, and encourage them to make more accounts to vote with than EVER before. That’s the only way we’re going to be able to combat this, should the worst case scenario actually happen.

@Bruce – That’s making the assumption that the scoring makes sense, period – and nothing about this season has made much sense to a lot of us There are 15 points to be given out total. Unless the judges give a 4, 3, 2, & 1, and then an additional 5-point bonus to the winner (which seems really wonky to me), I don’t think there’s any way that a scoring system similar to the marathon dance can work in this situation. And the bottom line remains the same – it can give a pretty big edge to whoever the judges decide the winner is.

The best strategy at this point is to assume the worst – that it’s a 15 point lead given the one couple, and to just vote like crazy to nullify it.

@Zach, I just had a thought. Kirstie, Hines, Kendra, Chelsie (can’t remember if Ralph had the cha cha as an individual dance yet) all had the Cha-cha in their individual routines then the team dance and now this. They must be getting sick of the Cha-cha! lol

@Wendy, they don’t usually announce who won the Design A Dance beforehand. It’ll be a surprise until they do the performance that night.

@Lisa W, I doubt they’re doing this during the results show. I think this will be on Monday. If they do it on results show then I think people will be a lot more unhappy than they are now! Should that ever be the case, then just vote like crazy because you never know who gets the 15 points on Tuesday.

@J, I agree and I don’t get what the judges’ beef is with Ralph. Unless they think he’s an excellent dancer and is only trying to push him. The better you are, the harder they will push you to get even better. I think this is why people think the judges’ favorite is Chelsea because they’re not pushing her too hard since she’s been the front running in 1st or 2nd with Hines (Chelsea and Hines are fighting for 1st place weekly) and the same with Hines but I think the judges need to be more tougher on Hines and Chelsea!

@Courtney, don’t you worry about that. You bet I’m going to let all the Hinekym fans know about this!

@Zach – We’re thinking it’s probably the most likely scenario at this point, just based on the judges’ behavior recently. Ralph’s at a huge disadvantage here – he’s still not 100% after his injury, and he is probably the weakest of the remaining 4 at the Latin dances…plus, the judges seem bound & determined to send him packing…so I doubt he’s gonna win this. Kirstie is pretty good at the cha-cha, but lately the judges seem to want her squarely in the middle of the pack; Hines is also a good dancer, but seems to have lost a bit of his sparkle in the recent weeks. The judges seem to be feeling the Chelsea love right now – very high scores. Chelsea definitely seems to be the one that would benefit most from winning this – she’s up against what we’re assuming are 3 pretty big fanbases. We know Ralph & Kirstie have the numbers – they’ve been pulled out of the bottom by some pretty big margins this season. Hines is a bit more uncertain – he’s never plunged to the bottom, so his fanbase has likely never been truly tested. Chelsea seems to be the least well-known of the group, and her voting demographic (youth) is the one demographic that the DWTS audience is seriously lacking in. If the judges (or TPTB, whoever is pulling the strings here) wanted to ensure she made it to the finale, this would be the perfect way to do it. I’d say that there’s a good chance they’re going to give it to Chelsea – if not Chelsea, my next guess is probably Hines…I don’t know if he’s getting as many votes as we think he is. But yeah, given the results we’re seeing on Vogues “rate the couples” thread, I’d say Chelsea getting it is the worst case scenario – a lot of people want her gone, just due to Mark’s behavior.

However, if you want a different perspective, just switch up the names, and then see if you think the couples can overcome the margins of votes they would need to stick around. It’s interesting food for thought.

Amen! to all you discussed… ABC. better look out cause many viewers “are” getting wise to what is going on. My personal friends are actually “not watching ” anymore, because “they have noticed” how the judges “nit pick” the good dancers, and “overlook” the flaws of “their favorites”. As “maks” aid on his “blog”…He’d “like to be a judge”. ( Probably jokingly)…But, hey, maybe that’s what the show needs…Let the pro dancers sit at the “judging table”. If “viewers” with “no dance experience”, can “spot mistakes”, on judges “favorites”, , don’t tell me, “the judges can’t see them”. But they tend to “ingnore”, and give a “higher score” than deserved. Look out, ABC…This is “costing you”…

I just don’t understand how giving 15 points to one couple and one couple only fits. Listening to Karina in the post results show interview, she said she thinks there will be 2 dance offs: 1st vs 4th and 2nd vs 3rd. What’s the point of setting up a dance off like that if only 1 team will be rewarded any points?

Here’s my question. They’ve been pimping Kirstie all season, right. Why would they king in the bu** now. CAI said she wants Kirstie in the finals. Meanwhile they’ve knocked Chelsea plenty of time. I wouldn’t be surprised if this all about Kirstie.
2nd question- why isn’t there an ‘outrage’ about Kirstie OVERSCORING? No need to answer that.

In the video post (below this post), check out the video with Ralph and Karina. She explains how it will go down. She said they will be dancing a 45 second dance and how they may have to dance it TWICE! The judges will judge the first and the fourth dances and the 2nd and 3rd dances to see who is the best from each. The winner of each then has to dance the 45 second dance again to see who wins.

@Rebecca – Bear in mind we are only speculating, just based off of what we’ve heard from the pros and our show insider. And you’re right, it doesn’t make sense – but then again, a lot of what’s been going on recently on the show hasn’t made sense. The way I interpreted Karina’s response was that all 4 couples would do their routine, and then the judges would pick their top 2 and have them face-off in order to determine a winner. As for why they would do this – have you read this post in its entirety? It gives the judges more say in who moves onto the finale – in fact, it practically guarantees that whoever they choose will move onto the finale. Make sense?

And as for you, Maddy – your posts have been getting increasingly combative. I suggest you reign it in before I find the need to start deleting. Though you seem to want the satisfaction of posing a rather accusatory question and then telling us not answer it (real cute), I’m gonna answer it anyway – maybe people don’t think Kirstie was overscored. And it’s beside the point anyway – I find the idea of ANY of the teams getting a free pass from the judges ridiculous. Whether it’s Hines, Kirstie, Ralph, or Chelsea that gets it, it’s still taking the decision out of the voters’ hands. I want the 3 finalists to be there because their combined total of 50% judges scores and 50% viewer votes places them there – not because Carrie Ann, Len, & Bruno granted them immunity. Hell, the judges have been so crazy with their scoring this season anyway, why would anyone think giving them even more points to dole out as they see fit would somehow be a good idea? It’s like walking up to a trigger-happy gunman and saying ‘Here you go, here’s some more ammo!” And let’s say this whole scenario works exactly the way TPTB intended it to – what’s to say they won’t bring it back again? And that each time, the judges could go against what the viewers are deciding with their votes? The viewers can basically kiss their choice of the 3rd member of the finale goodbye.

This was just an example, and some educated guesses based on scoring behavior recently. Now is not the time to point fingers and accuse one couple or another of benefitting from this nonsense. ALL of the teams should be focused creating as many verified accounts as they can, and speaking out against this ridiculous bonus dance. We’re speaking out against the show trying to steal some of the viewers’ power above all else.

Anyone else find it a bit suspicous that we STILL have yet to hear any official word from the show on how this will work? If it was going to be a harmless new way for all of the couples to pad their scores, why would they be so tight-lipped about it?

Wow…. So, the winning couple would really have 4 dances – the 2 they were supposed to do anyway, and then 2 Cha-cha’s (well, the same cha-cha twice)…. when you have (1) a 60 year-old woman, (2) a 50 year-old man on a bad leg, (3) a Super Bowl MVP wide receiver, and (4) a 22 year-old actress.

Just to play devil’s advocate… last season we had the 3 finalists there because their combined total of 50% judges scores and 50% viewer votes placed them there and there was damned near a riot! Possibly this is the producers’ way of combating the same sort of scenario. However, I think, if that’s the case, they should have waited another season to see if last season was an aberration or not before implementing something so outlandish.

I just want to say, I’m SOOOOOO thankful for this site. Not only do I get to give my opinions on my favorite television show, but I’ve added GREAT words like “confuzzled” and now “wackaloon” to my vocabulary!!!!!

I’m kind of a newbie to DWTS and couldn’t find the answer to this question anywhere, but do the fans still get to vote in the final? And if so, how much of their vote counts in who becomes the winner? Is it just like a regular week where votes count equally to the judges’ scores? I always though that it was the judges scores on the freestyle dance that determined who won. Perhaps, those scores are added to fan votes, and scoring for the 2 other final dances or cumulative scores from the entire season? I’m just curious how that all works and if the judges have the last word anyway.

I had read in a message board that Hines actually got the 2nd least amount of votes this week. How could anyone find that information out?!? Isn’t that top-secret or maybe that finding was based on some dialidol stats.

@Evaine – Yes, the judges scoring has indeed been wacky both last season & this season – which is why it is beyond me that they’ve decided to give those fruit loops even MORE say in who stays and who goes! And I have to say – I have to place some of the blame for last season’s near-riot about Bristol on the judges….they were far, FAR too kind in their scoring of her initially, and by the time they decided to crack down, it was too late – she had already made it quite a bit farther than some of the better dancers. Heidi’s post about the way Bristol was scored made it pretty clear that the judges were smoking some pretty good sh*t for most of last season, with some of the scores they were giving her. Thanks to those scores, Bristol never really needed a huge margin votes in order to stick around week-to-week. So I guess it just pisses me off that instead of addressing the judges’ wacky scoring, this bonus dance is just lessening the effect of viewer votes, and giving more power to those same judges that started the problem last season. And you’re right, Evaine – they should’ve waited to see if things stabilized this season before implementing such a drastic measure. I daresay that Kendra, the closest thing to a “polarizing” figure we had this season, didn’t generate anywhere NEAR as much controversy as Bristol.

@Rina – That’s interesting about Hines – and honestly, wouldn’t surprise me. I would take it with a grain of salt (as the vote totals are usually a very carefully-guarded secret), but the truth is that since Hines has never gotten the low score or even been “in jeopardy”, we really have any point of reference for how big his fanbase really is. I know everyone says the Steeler Nation is huge…but how many of those fans are actually tuning in and voting each week? We have no idea, since he’s always had a comfortable margin of judges’ points and has never been called “safe” later than 3rd in the results show. If Chelsea gets shielded by the 15 point bonus, then I think the next most likely candidate for a “shock elim” could very well be Hines.

Unhappy about the planned “winner-take-all” cha-cha. A 15-point boost in judges scores is almost impossible to overcome with viewer votes. Using last week’s scores, that ranges from 72k-108k more votes per 1M for the other 3 to catch the high scorer. That’s basically immunity from elimination. The judges will pick 1 couple for the finale because viewer votes can’t overcome that. This goes against the show’s 11-season history of the judges and voters sharing equally in choosing all 3 finalists.

@Courtney, you may well be right about Hines and voting (though he does get my meager number of votes each week ). However, there’s always speculation around here that maybe some higher-scoring couples end up “in jeopardy” because they aren’t getting a lot of votes – in other words, to shock their fans into voting. Just to play devil’s advocate, couldn’t the reverse also be true? If they are getting plenty of votes, they don’t need to be placed in jeopardy to mobilize the fans? Just a random thought when I’m supposed to be working…….

Zach – sorry been busy all day. I’m using a scenario as I spell out very clearly in the beginning of the post. But I personally think that it will be either Chelsea or Hines. I don’t think there’s a snowballs chance in hell that either Kirstie or Ralph get it. I’d be happy to be wrong since I love me some Ralphie.

P. Heidi – I agree with you. This bonus bs dance will in no way favor Ralph or Kirstie. Quite obvious that stamina will be a HUGE factor. Sweep leg and grandma will be hurting. Clear to me that Hines or Chelsea are going to get it.

I agree that the Winner Take All is unfair to EVERYONE, no matter WHO gets the extra points. I’m not a Chelsea/Mark fan, but even if Romeo were still on and he got the points, I would still think it was unfair. We know on the final night the judges basically pick the winner (when combined with the viewer votes, blah blah, blah…) We can’t control that. We only really have a say in who’s in the finals.
Thanks for the address to let ABC know my feelings on the matter. I also posted the address on another site where fans are also very angry.
Season 1 when Kelly Monaco won there was huge backlash about her being an ABC employee. Maybe this campaign will rattle ABC’s cages a bit and remind them we’re the consumers!

Maddy, if you don’t think there’s been outrage about overscoring of Kirstie, you just haven’t been paying attention. I was quite outraged with it just this past week. Thing is – there is no “group think” here. Just because some don’t have a problem with it does not mean everyone has no problem with it. Attention Kanenballers – this goes for you too. Just because I’m a Derek fan who’s very unhappy with Mark right now, doesn’t mean that everyone who is unhappy with Mark is a Derek fan. Too simplistic and nonsensical. Get a grip – he’s been acting the fool and LOTS of people aren’t fond of him right now. Even his PARTNER commented on it this week.

Well, Evaine – they were well justified to respond last season with: “here’s how the show works. You don’t like it, vote for someone else” They had the high ground (the producers) – it was the judges overscoring of Bristol that put her there. Until the finale she never needed more than a couple thousand votes to stick around. It was never a lot and it was easily explainable. This season, they are compounding an already BAD situation (the judges scores) with sheer idiocy of awarding an extra 15 points to one couple. If they are trying to remedy something from last season it just seems they aren’t very smart at ALL.

I totally agree, Heidi! I’m seeing a lot of similarities between my two fave shows – DWTS and Criminal Minds this season. Over at CM, they got rid of two beloved cast members in an effort to ‘refresh’ the show. The outcry was DEAFENING! What did they do? They were lucky enough to hire back one of the actresses for next season and are begging the other to come back. TPTB shot their wad way too quickly and lived to regret it. I think that might be what’s happening here. Or at least one of the things. Production teams are often quite out of touch with their viewership it seems to me.

Here’s an idea!! Get Derek’s happy little ass back to LA and make him dance with Chelsea and Kirstie as a challenge for them. Then get….ANNA to dance with Hines and Ralph. There’s a PLAN!! It would at least refresh the Cha Cha and make me as happy as a little clam.

Evaine, I love the TV show, “Criminal Minds” too!! But I think I’m only watching reruns on A&E. Not sure when their regular schedule is on so I’m not familiar with what you just said. I only started watching it…. maybe a month or so ago? Maybe more.

Just read about the “bonus dance”. I think 15 points added to one couple’s score is crazy. No matter who is your favorite. Personally I would love to see Ralph and Kirstie in the finals, but I don’t want the rules changed just to get them in.

Don’t forget the problem and outcry over Bristol wasn’t just with the judges wacky scoring, it was also the controversy that a fanatical group was gaming the system and voting with fake email accounts that ABC never bothered to verify. There were also the political overtones, which always tend to inflame passions. Often the best dancer doesn’t win or even advance over other worse but more popular dancers. Everyone knows it and it’s part of the normal dialogue over the show. It was never such a big controversy until Bristol’s case because with Bristol the disparity was just so out of whack and then you had the other elements (judges, voting scandal, politics) as well.

@Evaine, oh and it’s Thursday so I gotta wait another week! Listen, I don’t want to take up a lot of space talking about stuff not related to DWTS. Do you have twitter? I’m at @Hinenkymnation. Yes, I’m the one running the team page for Hines and Kym.

I agree about the email verification and think it may help but not sure if it would help a lot. Even young people are willing to create that many email addresses and register them. Maybe they need to start verifying credit card numbers lol. Well that won’t work because ABC owns Disney. Or was it the other way around?

Well, at least now people have to go through the bother of creating real e-mails. There was skuttlebutt last fall that people were registering on ABC with made-up e-mail addresses, which worked because ABC didn’t require verification like they do now.

-EXHALES-!!! Buttercup and Lisa ” and Oh yeah, Karina lol ” You guys just made my day, ive been so angry over that 15 points crap and looks like that cant be really true if its 4th vs 1st and 2nd vs 3rd. It makes more sense, it’s not so ridiculous, and looks like Chelsea will not be getting a free ride so to speak, and I can have some faith in humanity again. Some.
Heidi: I completly understand being busy so no need for an apoligy, Your are right about Hines and Chelsea and the thing is it’s not that I wont Ralph to win I just didn’t want Chelsea too I would have been alot more ok with Hines getting all those points cause heck I like them. Still aint right though, but since things aren’t so nonsensical now im more chill I just want to see Ralph’s Freestyle so bad! I think it might be like Donny’s in s9 and they could just really bring out his acting background and the finals I think could work good for Ralph and the amount of votes he got last week makes me feel betta! xD Nice comments guys!

Well it looks like the Cha cha bonus round will happen. Kym also confirmed it in her OK! magazine blog but she didn’t go into any details at all. I guess the pros were asked not to say a lot about it just yet which is probably why Mark also said he won’t say anything more about it til Friday.

Wait, no, I just watched Ralph and Karina’s interview again and Karina says that the maximum amount of times they will dance 45 second intervals is TWICE and the scenario talkied about above requiers three times?

Well Zach, if I read your post right, it just gets worser and worser… the more times a couple has to repeat their dance, the more this bonus round becomes just a test of physical endurance instead of a dance routine. I can’t help but think that it’s designed to ensure that Ralph and Kirstie don’t win…

LittleMo, that was insulting, and you best cut it out. There are better ways to disagree with someone’s opinion than implying they’re crazy.

And I don’t think anyone can say with certainty that Hines has a huge fanbase until he drops in points and he has to get a huge amount of votes to save him. Up until now, he hasn’t needed a huge amount of votes to stay in the competition, thanks to his scores. I myself am skeptical about this “huge fanbase” that Hines allegedly has – I have a hard time believing that a lot of the male population of Steelers fans (which I would say likely outnumbers their female fans) is tuning in for 2 hours of fluff and then is power voting afterward. Sorry, but I just don’t see it happening. And that’s just my opinion – so don’t go calling me crazy for it.

Nope, LittleMo, not out of my mind… at least not concerning this (which, you know, is only an opinion). *LOL* I know the SteelerNation offers a huge fanbase, I just don’t think a huge majority of them are watching and voting. Now I know that Hines is charming and sweet and all, but to my thinking, he’s not got that extra spark of charm that both Emmit Smith and Warren Sapp had that will bring a ton of non-committed voters to his team. He’s TOO nice and sweet. Too MOR, to use a musical term. (Middle of the Road)

LittleMo, it’s probably best not to reveal the size of any fanbases. There’s always going to be room for disagreements and unpleasantness from people who aren’t voting for that celebrity. People don’t usually like it when you rub something like that in their faces. Seem to happen a lot and I don’t mean here on puredwts. I already know myself the size of Steeler Nation but you can never tell. If a fanbase is large, we don’t know if every one of them is voting or even tuning in. I know there are some who love the Steelers but hate Hines and vice versa. So the fact that a celebrity might have a huge fanbase may be a good sign but it’s not a guarantee that this celebrity will make it through each week or even win.

By the way, Hines seem very nice but I noticed he does swear a little more than Warren did (I didn’t watch season 3 so I don’t know about Emmit) but of course I won’t hold that against him.

@Zach – depends on the amount of time between intervals. This whole bonus dance thing is just disgusting, since it takes away from the fans, and it seems to me like the rules have been crafted to give preference to some at the expense of others.

I really shouldn’t have to point this out this late in the game, but you all do realize that some celebs that have been on this show have had massive (millions) numbers of Twitter followers and still get voted off fairly early? The same would go for the Steeler Nation. Having a huge fan base does NO GOOD at all if the vast majority aren’t picking up the phone or getting on line and voting. If you are sitting back, content in the knowledge that your favorite has millions of fans as evidenced by a variety of factors, you could be in for a shock on Tuesday night.

You’re right on, Heidi. This is why you gotta vote! You can’t just say, “Oh the Steeler Nation is huge, I don’t need to vote for Hines” or “Kendra has a million twitter followers, I don’t need to vote”. How do we know who is voting and how they are voting? Less than half of Kendra’s twitter followers were probably voting for her! Some people are passionate enough to vote, some aren’t. Some people have to work late and miss one episode and don’t have time to vote. A lot of people following a celebrity on DWTS probably don’t care to watch DWTS. Not every fan is passionate enough.

No one is safe, not even a celebrity with a massive fanbase. It helps to have a massive fanbase but there’s no guarantee. There were no guarantee that Donny, Marie, Wayne or any other big names were going to win although only one of them did. NFL players come on the show every season and do really well but lately, a few haven’t made the finals like Kurt and Lawrence.

@mmc, I’ve been there and I “lurk” there but don’t post there. I hated the drama and all the bashing going on there so I left there over a month ago. It’s fine to tell everyone about that thread but enter at your own risk. You’re not exactly encountering with the nicest people over there.

@Liz, that’s true about the ABC board. I read it rarely and never post. Too intense for me! Was only curious if they were having discussions on this specific topic too. Seems like the kind of thing some folks over there might get riled up about.

Well, I differ with you there, Liz. Donny, Kirstie and Shawn were always locks to win simply from the type of fanbases they had – all likely to watch DWTS on a regular basis, all likely to be rabid voters. But that is RARE that you’re a fanbase ringer. Very rare. I thought Evan Lysacek would be a fanbase ringer as he was fresh off the Olympics, but his competition was just too good. Plus, it didn’t help that he had lots of fellow skaters that split his potential fanbase, one of them being Johnny Weir – and Evan pissed a LOT of them off.

I should also add that Gilles Marini almost accomplished what I thought couldn’t happen – beat Shawn. She of the huge fanbase almost got beaten by an unknown, but much better dancer – but this was one of those times where the Freestyle did more harm than good for Gilles.

I really think Gilles lost to Shawn not just because of her fanbase but because of her freestyle. Cheryl toned it down with her freestyle, and understandably so, because of his shoulder. Shawn had a much better freestyle than he did. That’s why I say watch out in the finals this season. Chelsea and MARK are still there! We’ve all been saying this. The whole season, Mark has been very creative and taking a bunch of risks and Len has been calling him on it repeatedly because these dances have rules. In the freestyle, there are no rules. I might be wrong but Len might not criticize his freestyle so much like he has been criticizing the other dances this season.

But you’re right, fanbase can be a big factor too. I’m just saying that I really think that’s how a champion win partly because of the freestyle. Many of the pros and contestants have said the freestyle is a “make or break” dance. You also forgot Wayne, Marie and David Hasselhoff. Big fanbases but they all stunk. Well, Marie didn’t stink as bad as David and Wayne until her…. ahem, (whispers:) freestyle. Of course, I’m not exactly sure how big of a fanbase Wayne had and I think David lost a lot of fans because of his personal problems where one of them got on tape.

Sorry, Liz, but no. Of course you have to have some talent along with the ringer-sized fanbase and Donny was a halfway decent dancer. Wayne Newton? Ummm…no. Donny Osmond was a teen idol and he has retained that fanbase to this day. The minute he was named, it was easy to point at him and say “He’s going to win” – not only does the name Osmond come with a huge fanbase, but it’s the right age and right gender and it’s rabid. The same cannot be said for Wayne, Marie or David Hasselhoff. Marie is supposedly disliked by many of Donny’s fans (although she did beat out several better dancers in her season) not to mention being one of the most annoying contestants in DWTS history, and Hasselhoff has burned so many bridges it’s not even funny. All his fans are European.

Gilles almost WON because he was hot and a great dancer – if he had not been a great dancer, Shawn would have simply won by a bigger margin. But again, young, cute, huge fanbase, fresh off the Olympics – never underestimate the power of the pre-teen girls, provided that all other factors are in place. Not to mention the sympathy factor. Ringers are never a guaranteed win – just look at Mya – but they have a serious leg up on the competition and the odds are in their favor. What happens when there is more than one ringer in a season?? Well, Donny (fanbase ringer) beat Mya (ability ringer) mainly because of his fanbase and because Mya was boring as hell. Evan versus Nicole?? Well, Nicole was the superior dancer, had Derek as her partner and from what I understand, Johnny Weir fans don’t like Evan at all and would be inclined to vote for someone else. That’s a good chunk of that Olympic fanbase going elsewhere. Erin was a minor ringer (like Melissa before her), but she never stood a chance against those two.

This season, it’s possible we have 2, maybe 3 Donny’s on our hands – Kirstie, Ralph and Hines (not so sure about Hines). Adequate dancers with huge fanbases. I don’t know if a Mark Ballas Freestyle can get them beyond those fanbases, particularly not since he’s been acting like a turd all season. I don’t think a freestyle can give you a WIN in a season, but it can certainly cost you a win. As for what the pros say? Sorry, but the pros say a lot of shit that just doesn’t make sense. They believe the hype around the show more than they should. Every season.

Well Heidi, you got good points as usual. I also know that not many people on this site, including yourself, are crazy about Mark but we gotta think about outside of PureDWTS. He does have a lot of fans behind him, his twitter following is growing and he has an album out and I think his song, “Hot Wire” is playing on radios. So I wouldn’t say that there are many people who don’t like Mark anymore. Some are turned off but still like him because of his dancing and others don’t care if he’s a jerk. They still like him by default. As for the young teens… well I know ABC owns Disney but just how much of the demographics for DWTS are fans of teens only? I think many people of all ages are watching.

We’ll see Liz. If she gets the 15 points it will be moot – it will be nearly impossible to beat her. And once she gets to the finale, she will only be competing against two of them. Mark may win, but once again it will be with a stacked deck.

I think it is interesting you think the judges will try to protect Chelsea when all season they have scored her lower than what she deserved. This is a dance competition and I think the final 3 deserve to be Hines, Chelsea and actually Ralph. I love Kirstie but she is not consistent. I also wonder how many of you complaining about Mark winning would mean it is with a stacked deck are Derek Hough fans? Every season he was given a ringer for the most part and nobody complained about that. It is what it is. If Mark and Chelsea win they deserve to. They have been great the entire season!

Oh boy, the revisionist history mark fans so love. No, dear, chealsea has been appropriately scored, for the most part. You don’t like her scores, blame her partner for continually choreographing dances that your average 3rd grader will know Len won’t like. I hate to break it to you, but no, we’re not all Derek fans – although I’m sure that would make you feel better.

And I do so love MARK fans who whine about Derek getting ringers, when that’s the only way mark himself has won! Derek’s had one, mark’s had two, maks has had one, dmitry has had one…by my count mark comes out ahead of all the pros on the ringer scale – how inconvenient.

Well Melody, I’m sorry. I wish I could see how Mark and Chelsea have danced “great the entire season”. Not only did I see arrogance and attitude issues, what I saw is them breaking a lot of rules all in the name of trying to be “remembered”. If they were so great as you say, then why was there overplay, breaking rules, and drawing attention to Mark’s feet needed and why did Len have to dock their scores?

Voguerista, just a question. It sounds a little like you thought it was bad if people were drawing attention to Mark’s feet. Is it bad that Ralph was talking about the cyst behind his knee? What about Kym’s neck injury? Do you think it’s bad or offensive for all the news and people to talk about her neck injury?

Melody, I personally think that Chelsea is doing great so there’s nothing wrong with her ability. It’s just the choreography and Mark’s behavior. Problem with Chelsea? No. Problem with Mark? Yes. Because of the choreography, I don’t think the judges are underscoring them and I think Len has been fair to these two. It’s just that Mark don’t want to listen! He’s an excellent dancer, teacher and a pretty good choreographer if you want to break all the rules and he’d be outstanding for SYTYCD. I don’t know why he’s not on there or even helping out there once in a while. I guess they’d have to ask or invite him and I don’t know why why they never asked him. I think SYTYCD is right up his alley more than DWTS is…. well, for this season anyway. Chelsea is not even a favorite to win so if she and Mark wins, then everyone’s going to freak out lol.

By the way, guys, I follow one of the associate producers of DWTS (can’t remember how that happened or why) and based on a couple of his tweets, he seems to be in favor of Chelsea. Talked to her but never said a word to any of the other couples. In fact, he hardly talks about DWTS. I’m not being a conspiracy theorist here even though I sound like one. Just stating the facts!

Oh please Melody, “every season Derek was given a ringer”??? Give me a break! Shannon was a ringer? Brooke was a ringer? Lil Kim and her “get out of jail’ background was a ringer? Joanna who was so disliked because of her last reality show was a ringer??? Jenny Garth was a ringer? Shall I go on? Derek knew how to choreograph around their weaknesses and made them look great, without drawing all the attention away from them and on to himself, I might add. No ringers in that bunch!

Just reread this thing. You are correct on every point, Princess Heidi. Even 73 for Chelsea. Just amazing!

I may understand better the motivation for pushing for Chelsea, but I’m still bitter. And I still can’t understand why they hate Ralph so much. Why why why why why are they so against him being in the final?

I really wonder on how many people understand how manipulative this is. How many people will understand the producers are douche, undermining audience votes, and most importantly, how many will disagree and voice their disagreement.

It is absolute GARBAGE! They knew that the little Disney princess would need extra help so they fixed the competition to make sure she gets into the finals. Why bother having the fans vote at all if they’re going to do what they want anyway?