Can anyone tell me a bit more about luggars. What size the males are, how agile, how persistent and what their speed is like. I know their not very water proof but this dosnt bother me as I'm a fair weather man.
Anyone breeding them and what sort of price to they go for

I have a pair .they layed there first egg today .there is some hard feathered type witch I have and some more fluffy feathered ones,I've never flown one as yet but a female approximately 1lb 6 to 1lb8ih and males around about 1lb mark just under.i have heard they are more aggressive than lanners but can be stubborn
Atb troy

Luggers are far more bird than a Lanner, often compared with the Praire but there is little that connects them apart from having evolved to fill a similar opening.

Problem with the Luggers... Prairies, Gyrs & Aplomados they all seem to share this simular ability to interpret falconry and its carrot on a string principle.
For this reason the Lugger & Prairie has founds itself at the bottom of the desirability list due to its hard to manage nature not being out weighed by looks and skilled falconers.

Its true the bad ones are bad & the good ones kittens, but you should expect
a Falcon that needs to have things carefully explained and its attention maintained at all times.

Biggest hickup with this group of falcons, is they understand there routine very well and are constantly looking for a reason to justify there loyalty to you.
in brief, if they feel you have nothing to offer, they wont take any messing.

One of the most commonest forms of negative behavior often involves the hood, most if not all will hood before a session, knowing that good things are to come, but knowing no further reward is due they will refuse to hood after the ration has been fed, so bear that one in mind when formulating a routine.

Luggers consider themselves no less than the larger sakers, and will happily take rabbits & corvids.

Speed wise they leave the lanner standing, also being more maneuverable and certainly more daring when it comes to negotiating fences, livestock or trees at high speed.
Infact my biggest problem was tail & back pack mounts being constantly clipped suggesting a possible disaster nearing.
Luggers are very tactical, when taking lapwings its more by its positioning behind the target rather than any outflying really.

Luggers dont like slow training sessions that bore them grumpy,
They risk developing a habbit of being grumpy triggered off by a certain part of a routine that should not normally promote conflict.
They might step up fine, leave you time to untie the knot then suddenly go mental without real cause..
so its all about keeping them sweet, giving them the impression good things are round the corner.

Water proofing wise.. there not that bad, most of the talk regarding Lanners, luggers & sakers is Moo..
They are no less suitable for the UK than immature peregrines,
It seems that everyone that flies a Lanner is under the impression they come from somewhere that never rains for weeks at a time & drops to -5 most winter nights.

Ps.. Have plenty of spare leashes and block tops.. they fart bubble & cak like Lanners & hobbies and some are a nightmare to keep tiptop.

Luggers are far more bird than a Lanner, often compared with the Praire but there is little that connects them apart from having evolved to fill a similar opening.

Problem with the Luggers... Prairies, Gyrs & Aplomados they all seem to share this simular ability to interpret falconry and its carrot on a string principle.
For this reason the Lugger & Prairie has founds itself at the bottom of the desirability list due to its hard to manage nature not being out weighed by looks and skilled falconers.

Its true the bad ones are bad & the good ones kittens, but you should expect
a Falcon that needs to have things carefully explained and its attention maintained at all times.

Biggest hickup with this group of falcons, is they understand there routine very well and are constantly looking for a reason to justify there loyalty to you.
in brief, if they feel you have nothing to offer, they wont take any messing.

One of the most commonest forms of negative behavior often involves the hood, most if not all will hood before a session, knowing that good things are to come, but knowing no further reward is due they will refuse to hood after the ration has been fed, so bear that one in mind when formulating a routine.

Luggers consider themselves no less than the larger sakers, and will happily take rabbits & corvids.

Speed wise they leave the lanner standing, also being more maneuverable and certainly more daring when it comes to negotiating fences, livestock or trees at high speed.
Infact my biggest problem was tail & back pack mounts being constantly clipped suggesting a possible disaster nearing.
Luggers are very tactical, when taking lapwings its more by its positioning behind the target rather than any outflying really.

Luggers dont like slow training sessions that bore them grumpy,
They risk developing a habbit of being grumpy triggered off by a certain part of a routine that should not normally promote conflict.
They might step up fine, leave you time to untie the knot then suddenly go mental without real cause..
so its all about keeping them sweet, giving them the impression good things are round the corner.

Water proofing wise.. there not that bad, most of the talk regarding Lanners, luggers & sakers is Moo..
They are no less suitable for the UK than immature peregrines,
It seems that everyone that flies a Lanner is under the impression they come from somewhere that never rains for weeks at a time & drops to -5 most winter nights.

ps.. Have plenty of spare leashes and block tops.. they fart bubble & cak like Lanners & hobbies and some are a nightmare to keep tiptop.

Thank you very much for that whitetail some great advice and things to think about
Troy

Luggers are far more bird than a Lanner, often compared with the Praire but there is little that connects them apart from having evolved to fill a similar opening.

Problem with the Luggers... Prairies, Gyrs & Aplomados they all seem to share this simular ability to interpret falconry and its carrot on a string principle.
For this reason the Lugger & Prairie has founds itself at the bottom of the desirability list due to its hard to manage nature not being out weighed by looks and skilled falconers.

Its true the bad ones are bad & the good ones kittens, but you should expect
A Falcon that needs to have things carefully explained and its attention maintained at all times.

Biggest hickup with this group of falcons, is they understand there routine very well and are constantly looking for a reason to justify there loyalty to you.
In brief, if they feel you have nothing to offer, they wont take any messing.

One of the most commonest forms of negative behavior often involves the hood, most if not all will hood before a session, knowing that good things are to come, but knowing no further reward is due they will refuse to hood after the ration has been fed, so bear that one in mind when formulating a routine.

Luggers consider themselves no less than the larger sakers, and will happily take rabbits & corvids.

Speed wise they leave the lanner standing, also being more maneuverable and certainly more daring when it comes to negotiating fences, livestock or trees at high speed.
Infact my biggest problem was tail & back pack mounts being constantly clipped suggesting a possible disaster nearing.
Luggers are very tactical, when taking lapwings its more by its positioning behind the target rather than any outflying really.

Luggers dont like slow training sessions that bore them grumpy,
They risk developing a habbit of being grumpy triggered off by a certain part of a routine that should not normally promote conflict.
They might step up fine, leave you time to untie the knot then suddenly go mental without real cause..
So its all about keeping them sweet, giving them the impression good things are round the corner.

Water proofing wise.. there not that bad, most of the talk regarding Lanners, luggers & sakers is Moo..
They are no less suitable for the UK than immature peregrines,
It seems that everyone that flies a Lanner is under the impression they come from somewhere that never rains for weeks at a time & drops to -5 most winter nights.

ps.. Have plenty of spare leashes and block tops.. they fart bubble & cak like Lanners & hobbies and some are a nightmare to keep tiptop.

Wow Marc, extensive comparison. I dont know luggers or prairies, but according to Bruce Haak prairies are dynamite in the right hands.

I do take some umbrage to how you keep referring to the Lanner as a second rate falcon. This is unjustified and disproved by many good falconers. If you found them lacking, it might be your approach. They are cracking falcons in the right hands.

As to luggers taking bunnies. Can you give some verifiable references? We talking luggers, right? Not sakers?

Dont panic Jannes.. I love my Lanners but the Luggers are faster in level flight.
Or at least the terribly inbred Uk ones that Ive flown were.
Most of the hunting I have done & seen with Lanners has been typically waiting on and no less effective than peregrines but with the possible advantage of added maneuverability at the end of the stoop.
If comparing the Lugger & the Lanner when Game hawking, you will see little difference, its more the pursuit side i was referring too.. I apologize..
( I have no experience of the different subspecies/regional differences that was might have been more relevant during times of wild caught Lugger import).

I've never seen a Lanner stick to quarry in a pursuit the same as a lugger might.

The prairies are a very close comparison ability wise with the Lugger.
The maneuverability at the bottom of a stoop is insane.

These three (Lanners, Luggers, Praires) are excellent for single handed rough hawking, when even multiple beaters struggle to serve quarry already under pressure for the likes of peregrines waiting on.

As to luggers taking bunnies. Can you give some verifiable references? We talking luggers, right? Not sakers?

I'll try find some photos of the Imprint female I have that came from Ben Carne (IFF Member)
I took several with her before i felt i had to stop due to her fence weaving style that was an accident waiting to happen.
She would sit on the fist like a hawk as we ferreted, and return like one also.
at 1.5lb she was not less capable than the Pure Sakers & Gyrsakers i flew for the rest of the season at ground game.
Thou her technique of head binds at full speed reminded me of a few imprint spars over the years that would think a little to big.

I'll try find some photos of the Imprint female I have that came from Ben Carne (IFF Member)
I took several with her before i felt i had to stop due to her fence weaving style that was an accident waiting to happen.
She would sit on the fist like a hawk as we ferreted, and return like one also.
At 1.5lb she was not less capable than the Pure Sakers & Gyrsakers i flew for the rest of the season at ground game.
thou her technique of head binds at full speed reminded me of a few imprint spars over the years that would think a little to big.

Allow me to apologise. I should be old and ugly enough to know I shouldnt doubt things in this world. I know about Ben. Dont go to any trouble bru.

Back to lanners. They should be flown gamehawk style. They are not pursuit falcons like sakers.

Im really starting to get interested in these damn luggers. What are the females in grams?