The Pioneer compared to the 205, again, both stock, has a greater sense of detail, resolution and refinement. The 205 is slightly warmer and by comparison, just a bit more subdued. It is hard to explain. The Pioneer simply sounds very refined! There is a delicacy and very fine low level detail and resolution with the stock LX800 that I don't hear in the stock 205.

To be clear, I am not sure what U.S. MSRP for the stock Pioneer LX800 will be. I would guess between $1500-$2K, but that is just a guess. I believe the LX500 is about $1K.

Dan - no problem - always watching stuff, especially since Oppo is no longer being made and their technical support is now down to email only (I recently had an issue that drove me nuts with my 203 and that sits in my 4k system, and I own a whole 8 UHD discs, which I basically might use for audio once a year if I have a bunch of people over and am running several systems - My Sony 4k TV requires a handshake even when I turn it off/standby, so one has to either disconnect HDMI or leave the TV on) .

The LX500 has very good potentail too it sounds like based on what I have seen from the LX800. I expect that MUCH of the benefits of the LX800 will be found in the LX500. I believe it lacks a Linear Power supply for audio, but we could take care of that! Looks like the same drive, clocking and chassis anti-resonant tech is still present.

I believe the DAC is AKM instead of SABRE, but that is NOT a bad thing either, as the AKM DACs are very good!

The LX500 has very good potentail too it sounds like based on what I have seen from the LX800. I expect that MUCH of the benefits of the LX800 will be found in the LX500. I believe it lacks a Linear Power supply for audio, but we could take care of that! Looks like the same drive, clocking and chassis anti-resonant tech is still present.

I believe the DAC is AKM instead of SABRE, but that is NOT a bad thing either, as the AKM DACs are very good!

Thanks,

Dan

dan : if i cant locate the lx 800 anywhere - except in great britain - what's all the fuss about - are you saying you will do the mods in the future - when the player is available in the state or canada?

The Pioneer compared to the 205, again, both stock, has a greater sense of detail, resolution and refinement. The 205 is slightly warmer and by comparison, just a bit more subdued. It is hard to explain. The Pioneer simply sounds very refined! There is a delicacy and very fine low level detail and resolution with the stock LX800 that I don't hear in the stock 205.

As I proceed with this mod, it will be my goal to absolutely retain this low level detail and refinement. It is the quality that I hear when the noise floor is EXCEPTIONALLY low. It is also not in any way bright or aggressive, which suggests very low jitter and distortion.

If the difference between the two is solely due to the individual analog output stages, rather than due to digital processing, wouldn't your mods end up being the sole determinant of any audio differences?

Hi guys, first of all, the LX800 will be available in the U.S. soon. I just happened to have a customer in the UAE that was willing to send me one from the UK to take a look at. When they are available in the U.S., we will be ready to accommodate our customers.

RE the analog stage being replaced in both, you have a point but...There are numerous factors that go into good sound. The anti-resonant enclosure, the quality of the power supplies, the nature of how digital signals are handled prior to decoding by the DAC, clocking, etc., are all factors that dictate how good a player can be. The analog stage IS a huge part and if all else were 100% equal, WOULD be the deciding factor.

Given that the Oppo and Pioneer units both use nearly the same SABRE DACs and both serve the same universal functions, I felt that it was fair to compare them stock to stock, to see what I had to work with. I really won't know until I get into it, how the modified Pioneer will compare to the modified 105 and 205.

My intent is to make the LX800 the best that it can be. I will take what I have learned with the 205 and 105, but this is a different product with its own strengths and weaknesses. For now, I can simply say that it starts off life as a high performance product! I am excited to see how much farther we can take it!

Phil, do you mind further explaining the issue and what it causes you to do?

I have a Sony 4K projector and an Oppo 203 and have never had any connectivity issues.

As noted I don't use the system for audio normally and don't own tons of 4K movies. I made a new analog interconnect of somewhat similar materials which I've used before. My original intent was to break it in using the system with the Oppo 203 to the Sherbourn preamp (with HT Bypass) which I use in that system. I also bought a Hifi Tuning Fuse (at Parts Connexion and it was not super expensive). So I started playing back files over the network and turned the TV off and noticed audio dropouts. My 203 went back to Oppo already a couple of times (once for freezing up during an upgrade). I'd leave it on repeat, overnight a couple of times and I'd find the system no playing in the morning. After audio dropouts over the network, I tried a CD-R and experienced the same issue. Then I tried a store bought CD and again had the same issue. The dropouts were not what I could determine at regular intervals. As noted, if I have a bunch of people over, that's the only time I use that system for audio. The last time I did, I had a Teac UD-501 DAC in there with a small Windows PC running JRiver. Anyway, I had the music server die (probably from lightning damage in March 2017) a few months ago and ended up moving the Teac DAC out of there into another system.

Since I do not use the system generally for audio (pic below) - have 26 or so year old B&W P6s as mains (which I'm the original owner), my original thought was I had a problem and was going to end up sending it back to Oppo (and I started looking at alternatives like Pioneer and Panasonic just in case). I have no problem if I leave the TV on. Oppo told me I could also just disconnect the HDMI cable from the 203 as well. In its current state, I'd probably only use the system if for audio with a bunch of people over. That's more or less why I always get the lower end Oppo players as I just use them for video. I still have a solid state Modwright modded BDP-83, which I sent back to Oppo about a year or so back at the same time I sent the 203 back. The sticky drawer issue on the 83 is a known problem and I just had to pay shipping one way. I have the 83 in the main system, even though I use a 103D in there for video. The 83 can of course pass 192kHz out of its coax digital output from stuff like DVD-As or Blu-Rays and I have that going to my DAC.

I see. Sorry I made you type all that information. I use my 203 for video only so I would never run into that issue.

No problem. It's probably a good thing that it is in a place like this for people who have modded Oppo players and Sony TVs (and I do know someone who has a Modwright 205 and the bigger version of my Sony TV. I think the person uses it mostly for audio disc playback, although I might have left a thumb drive with files for him to try so it is possible he may have connected it for video. It drove me crazy. I even tested the HDMI cables. I use a Lumin U1 server in the main system, which is used for audio probably 95% of the time (even though it does video great) so I would never use my 103D for file playback in there. I have another 103D in the master bedroom, which I may use from time to time to play back files from the NAS outside (the master bedroom feeds the outdoor speakers).

Phil,I also have a Sony 4K tv with my oppo, and experience dropout. It happens about 5 times during a song! Oppo customer service said that I should leave the tv on while playing music or unplug the tv. I do the latter. I don’t need to waste electricity or prematurely burn out my tv. I kept hoping that an update from oppo would solve the handshake issue, but now that’s not very likely.

Phil,I also have a Sony 4K tv with my oppo, and experience dropout. It happens about 5 times during a song! Oppo customer service said that I should leave the tv on while playing music or unplug the tv. I do the latter. I don’t need to waste electricity or prematurely burn out my tv. I kept hoping that an update from oppo would solve the handshake issue, but now that’s not very likely.

It was news to me as the only time I tried file playback is when I got the 203 when it was first released. I ended up upgrading the main system DAC and moving the old main system DAC into my primary back-up two channel system and moving the Teac UD-501 into the same room with the Oppo 203. I have had a couple of bigger get togethers where I had used the Teac with a Windows 10 PC running JRiver. I moved the Teac to a different system about a month ago. If I had not made new cables to try in the system with the Oppo, I wouldn't have know about the issue. I was baffled when I turned off the TV as to what the issue was.

It only happens when I listen to music and the TV is plugged in, but turned off. I have Frank’s latest dac, so I am bypassing the dac in the oppo. I don’t stream. I am only playing CD's and using coax out to the AVA. If I watch a DVD or blu-Ray, the TV is on, so no issues. The tech at oppo said that the dropouts occur when the oppo is looking for the TV signal. I wonder why they can’t fix this issue after all this time?

Are these dropouts occurring when you listen to the analog outputs of the Oppo or just when you are passing a digital stream to a DAC or AV processor?

Correct - in my case I was playing out of the analog outs of the 203 into the Sherbourn preamp and got dropouts no matter what the source (network files, DSD, other hi-rez or CD quality), CD-Rs or store bought CDs). If I watch a movie in that system, the Sherbourn has HT Bypass.

It only happens when I listen to music and the TV is plugged in, but turned off. I have Frank’s latest dac, so I am bypassing the dac in the oppo. I don’t stream. I am only playing CD's and using coax out to the AVA. If I watch a DVD or blu-Ray, the TV is on, so no issues. The tech at oppo said that the dropouts occur when the oppo is looking for the TV signal. I wonder why they can’t fix this issue after all this time?

It just may be that they don't have the resources. I have a bunch of Oppo players, including an old BDP-93 (network card got blown out from lightning damage but the wifi dongle works). I used the BDP-93 for a bit in my bedroom system (which also feeds my outdoor speakers). When I got the 203, I moved the 103D I had to the bedroom system (which allows me to select all the files of all formats - the 93 won't do DSD) to the master bedroom and the 93 to the upstairs bonus room (which is more or less a guest bedroom) with a hard drive attached. I contacted Oppo support. They only had an Android App for media selection for the 93 and told me that at that point they didn't have the resources to go back and do an IOS App so I bought a cheapo Android Tablet.

The problem was a shock to me as I basically don't use the system for audio and had already had to send my 203 back to them twice before that. I was dreading having to do that again and tested the HDMI cables, swapped RCA cables, etc, and I was ready to move one of the other Oppo players to try in the system when I contacted them. That's why I started looking at alternatives like the Pioneer players that this thread deals with. I started doing some research in case I need to buy a 4k player for that system.

When Dan first posted about the new Pioneer 800, I googled it and found a site that advertised the new 800 was coming and beside describing what features this thing will bring it mentioned the price for it was going to be $1499.00 .. Didn't mention it earlier as I thought someone else would of found it .. Seems its still a mystery..

Can't find it now.. Doing the conversion from European prices looks like its going to be much higher..