Dnthateonthepronk wrote:Dont really have a negative or positive thought on the pick, if that is who they thought was the best player then they should take him, However I would have went with Giolito.....who now goes to Washington.

Might as well go ahead and give him Tommy John surgery now so they can get it out of the way.

Hey man, the only way the Indians are going to get potential high ceiling impact SP is in the Draft. I believe in drafting on Talent/ceiling and sometimes you need to take chances.

Dnthateonthepronk wrote:Hey man, the only way the Indians are going to get potential high ceiling impact SP is in the Draft. I believe in drafting on Talent/ceiling and sometimes you need to take chances.

The Indians appear to be drafting for depth. They want a balanced top 10 rounds. Giolito doesn't allow them to do that; costs too much to sign. They want to get 8-10 picks they like and hope 2 or 3 pan out.

Not disagreeing with your point, and they probably take Giolito without the bonus money caps, but they're looking at the bigger picture in the draft.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

Dnthateonthepronk wrote:Hey man, the only way the Indians are going to get potential high ceiling impact SP is in the Draft. I believe in drafting on Talent/ceiling and sometimes you need to take chances.

The Indians appear to be drafting for depth. They want a balanced top 10 rounds. Giolito doesn't allow them to do that; costs too much to sign. They want to get 8-10 picks they like and hope 2 or 3 pan out.

Not disagreeing with your point, and they probably take Giolito without the bonus money caps, but they're looking at the bigger picture in the draft.

Going underslot on round one (especially if it's somebody they like anyway) to go a little overslot on rounds two and three? If they figured out a way to twist the draft rules in their favor, then great for them.

Of all the comps you could possibly make you're gonna go with a Japanese guy who was 30 when he got here?

You're the Beau Mills of message board posters.

I wish you didn't amuse me. Then I could quit you.

Slap hitting corner outfielder with questionable power who will hit for average, strikeout seldom, and walk less...who has a cannon for an arm

We just drafted future HOFer Ichiro Suzuki I tell ya.

Mark it dude.

Frankly, I don't know how the hell he was still available knowing everything I've learned about him in the last 5 minutes.

You know what? I say bring him up tonight and let him play CF tomorrow night in place of the entitled 'low ceiling' tool currently giving mediocre effort out there now.

I remember a time not all that long ago when I was saying the ball coming off Trevor Crowe's bat in Lake County made a different sound than other guys. And yeah, it was after he put down the aluminum bat so it wasn't that. I'd have noticed.

Of all the comps you could possibly make you're gonna go with a Japanese guy who was 30 when he got here?

You're the Beau Mills of message board posters.

I wish you didn't amuse me. Then I could quit you.

Slap hitting corner outfielder with questionable power who will hit for average, strikeout seldom, and walk less...who has a cannon for an arm

We just drafted future HOFer Ichiro Suzuki I tell ya.

Mark it dude.

Frankly, I don't know how the hell he was still available knowing everything I've learned about him in the last 5 minutes.

You know what? I say bring him up tonight and let him play CF tomorrow night in place of the entitled 'low ceiling' tool currently giving mediocre effort out there now.

I remember a time not all that long ago when I was saying the ball coming off Trevor Crowe's bat in Lake County made a different sound than other guys. And yeah, it was after he put down the aluminum bat so it wasn't that. I'd have noticed.

Actually Crowe was the first guy I thought of when they drafted him. And that's much more depressing than Brantley.

Crowe is alot more solidly put together. What should be reassuring is Crowe was a product of aluminum bats that were a lot jumpier back in the day. Dude had a .1220 OPS as a senior. Have to imagine guys are a lot more projectable with the bats deadened to preserve life.

With the 15th-overall pick, the Indians passed on college righthanders to take Texas A&M outfielder Tyler Naquin.

Naquin is the best pure hitter in this year's class, with a lefthanded swing that has evoked comparisons to Will Clark. He has a line drive approach and goes to the opposite field with authority. Naquin is a plus runner, though it isn't clear how well he'll be able to handle center field since he mostly played right field for the Aggies.

Naquin doesn't project to hit for a lot of home run power, but should hit plenty of doubles and has the best arm strength in this year's draft.

Another (former) Baseball America scout (and current SI correspondent) had Naquin going 19th in his mock:

19: St. Louis Cardinals -- Tyler Naquin, OF, Texas A&MNaquin shines in both tools and sabermetric evaluations. He has a quick, opposite field oriented bat and a cannon arm, plus he records a high on-base percentage.

Just finished my writeup on him. Bottom line, if they sign him for under slot and he makes the transition to CF, it's a good pick. Smarter people than me think he can do that, so hopefully they're right. He has a 70 arm, 55 speed, 50 hit tool and about 30 power. The hit tool could end up as a 60, which would make him an ideal 2/3 hitter. His swing is a little long, mainly because he starts with a narrow base and high hands, but that's something that can be tweaked. He played RF in college because A&M has one of the fastest kids in all of college baseball in CF, not because he can't play CF. His speed is not questionable, it's plus. He stole 21 bases in 26 attempts, and hit leadoff for A&M some of the time.

The pick caught me off guard, but it's not as bad as I was originally afraid of. Will be interesting to see what they do in the rest of the top 10. I would have preferred Shaffer, but I'm not sure Shaffer can stay at 3B. Antonetti and co know a lot more than I do about these guys (obviously) and have seen them a lot more than I have, and in my opinion they've earned the benefit of the doubt with their draft record the past several years.

You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves-----Abe Lincoln

Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts. -----Lars

Like I said upthread, or was trying to say, save your money on the top pick so you can grab guys in the lower rounds and sign them. Glad the Tribe brass reads these boards. Keep up the good work Chris.

Not sure what to think about this pick. I was really counting on one of those college arms like Wacha being available, or better yet, a right-handed hitter with power like Shaffer or Piscotty--I was really intrigued by those guys and hoping we'd land one. I'm not sure what's going on with the Naquin pick. He's got some interesting attributes, but just as many drawbacks. I hate it if it's one of those dreaded "signable" picks, but maybe there's something special they're seeing in him. Given that the drafts under Grant have been pretty good, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt...for now. I just hope they know what they're doing.

Adverb Harry wrote:Not sure what to think about this pick. I was really counting on one of those college arms like Wacha being available, or better yet, a right-handed hitter with power like Shaffer or Piscotty--I was really intrigued by those guys and hoping we'd land one. I'm not sure what's going on with the Naquin pick. He's got some interesting attributes, but just as many drawbacks. I hate it if it's one of those dreaded "signable" picks, but maybe there's something special they're seeing in him. Given that the drafts under Grant have been pretty good, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt...for now. I just hope they know what they're doing.

I agree with everything you just said... Except the part about Grant. Wrong sport

The Indians farm system is very short on quality OF prospects. Sizemore is toast, they have nothing in left field, Choo is on borrowed time after having employed Boras as his agent, and Brantley looks like the only guy who's here for the long term. I preferred a right-handed power bat, but I'm really happy the first pick was an OF.

What they didn't need was another projected relief pitcher, or another Adam Miller or Jason Knapp.

Prosecutor wrote:The Indians farm system is very short on quality OF prospects. Sizemore is toast, they have nothing in left field, Choo is on borrowed time after having employed Boras as his agent, and Brantley looks like the only guy who's here for the long term. I preferred a right-handed power bat, but I'm really happy the first pick was an OF.

What they didn't need was another projected relief pitcher, or another Adam Miller or Jason Knapp.

With Naquin as a 21 year old and nobody blocking him in the system...I've got a feeling we'll know if he's a hit or a bust in 3 years, tops.

I hope it's sooner than that. My fear is that the Indians will keep this kid in the minors as long as possible to avoid starting his free agency clock. Bring him to spring training with the parent club next spring and give him a shot. Can't be much worse than Damon, Duncan, Brantley, etc.

It has driven me crazy for years that the Indians keep talented kids (Sexson, Giles, etc.) in the minors longer than necessary, while continuing to acquire mediocre players for the big-league club. If the kid's good enough, he's old enough.

I'm hearing a lot of the same knocks on this kid as Chisenhall when he was drafted. Nice lefthanded swing, won't hit for enough power etc. And he's being called a "tweener" the same way Kipnis was.

Until proven otherwise, I'm going to assume he can play CF. If he can play CF, his offensive profile is just fine. If he signs quickly and for less than slot, even better because they can then shift that money elsewhere in the top 10.

Like it or not, the Indians have had pretty good drafts the past few years. They have some really smart front office people who have been studying the new CBA since it came out, looking at how to best allocate their now forcibly limited resources. Until yesterday, I'd wager that no one on these boards had seen Naquin take a swing at a baseball. The Indians obviously extensively scouted him, both in person and breaking down tape. I think they've earned the benefit of the doubt with this pick, and until proven otherwise I'm going to trust that he was the right pick.

You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves-----Abe Lincoln

Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts. -----Lars

gotribe31 wrote:Like it or not, the Indians have had pretty good drafts the past few years.

I agree - because of this, they do get the benefit of the doubt on this pick, as opposed to, say, Beau Mills. It'll be interesting to see where they start him (short season vs. Lake County), and if he comes in playing CF. How long is L_Wash supposed to be out, anyway?

It's not uncommon for players who play in colder climates to be late risers as scouts get to see them as the weather changes. That definitely has been the case for Brown this spring. While not the biggest guy in the world, he is strong and durably built. He also has a good idea of what he's doing on the mound. The right-hander can run his fastball up to 94 mph. He can spin a breaking ball pretty well, throws a good cutter and even shows a feel for the changeup. That gives him the chance to have four Major League average or well above offerings in the future. While Brown can struggle with his overall command at times, it's not a long-term concern. There was little doubt he was the best player in the state of Minnesota as the Draft approached, one who was creeping up higher on Draft boards.

It's not uncommon for players who play in colder climates to be late risers as scouts get to see them as the weather changes. That definitely has been the case for Brown this spring. While not the biggest guy in the world, he is strong and durably built. He also has a good idea of what he's doing on the mound. The right-hander can run his fastball up to 94 mph. He can spin a breaking ball pretty well, throws a good cutter and even shows a feel for the changeup. That gives him the chance to have four Major League average or well above offerings in the future. While Brown can struggle with his overall command at times, it's not a long-term concern. There was little doubt he was the best player in the state of Minnesota as the Draft approached, one who was creeping up higher on Draft boards.

Like the pick. A lot. He's got a good frame at 6'2", 210lbs. Law had him ranked #45 overall, BA had him at #44 overall. From Law:

He'll sit 89-94 and has touched 95 late in outings this spring, and he has one of the better prep curveballs in the draft this year, with tight rotation and big, mostly vertical, break. He also throws a cutter in the upper 80s in lieu of a changeup, much as Dylan Bundy tended to do last year.

His delivery is very easy and simple, clean in back with a good finish out over his front side, and since he offers little physical projection his only real developmental need is reps to improve his command and control, and perhaps to develop a changeup.

You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves-----Abe Lincoln

Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts. -----Lars

This SoCal right-hander has great upside but has been inconsistent throughout his career. His delivery has a short stride and relies mostly on arm action, but he is able to consistently throw his fastball from 90-94 mph. His slider, although inconsistent, has a chance to be a strikeout pitch. His changeup has the chance to be an average pitch but can help complement his fastball and slider if they aren't being commanded well. Lovegrove also has the ability to add muscle to his lean frame, which could mean added velocity. A team that thinks that it could smooth out his mechanics will take a chance on him and could end up getting great value.

It's not uncommon for players who play in colder climates to be late risers as scouts get to see them as the weather changes. That definitely has been the case for Brown this spring. While not the biggest guy in the world, he is strong and durably built. He also has a good idea of what he's doing on the mound. The right-hander can run his fastball up to 94 mph. He can spin a breaking ball pretty well, throws a good cutter and even shows a feel for the changeup. That gives him the chance to have four Major League average or well above offerings in the future. While Brown can struggle with his overall command at times, it's not a long-term concern. There was little doubt he was the best player in the state of Minnesota as the Draft approached, one who was creeping up higher on Draft boards.

Like the pick. A lot. He's got a good frame at 6'2", 210lbs. Law had him ranked #45 overall, BA had him at #44 overall. From Law:

He'll sit 89-94 and has touched 95 late in outings this spring, and he has one of the better prep curveballs in the draft this year, with tight rotation and big, mostly vertical, break. He also throws a cutter in the upper 80s in lieu of a changeup, much as Dylan Bundy tended to do last year.

His delivery is very easy and simple, clean in back with a good finish out over his front side, and since he offers little physical projection his only real developmental need is reps to improve his command and control, and perhaps to develop a changeup.

Agreed from what I have read today. Was hoping the kid ETA: Chris Beck that went a couple spots in front of us was going to be there.

This SoCal right-hander has great upside but has been inconsistent throughout his career. His delivery has a short stride and relies mostly on arm action, but he is able to consistently throw his fastball from 90-94 mph. His slider, although inconsistent, has a chance to be a strikeout pitch. His changeup has the chance to be an average pitch but can help complement his fastball and slider if they aren't being commanded well. Lovegrove also has the ability to add muscle to his lean frame, which could mean added velocity. A team that thinks that it could smooth out his mechanics will take a chance on him and could end up getting great value.

#131 by BA, not in Law's top 100.

You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves-----Abe Lincoln

Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts. -----Lars

This SoCal right-hander has great upside but has been inconsistent throughout his career. His delivery has a short stride and relies mostly on arm action, but he is able to consistently throw his fastball from 90-94 mph. His slider, although inconsistent, has a chance to be a strikeout pitch. His changeup has the chance to be an average pitch but can help complement his fastball and slider if they aren't being commanded well. Lovegrove also has the ability to add muscle to his lean frame, which could mean added velocity. A team that thinks that it could smooth out his mechanics will take a chance on him and could end up getting great value.

He can attend the side sessions that Ubaldo is attending. Works out perfectly.

This SoCal right-hander has great upside but has been inconsistent throughout his career. His delivery has a short stride and relies mostly on arm action, but he is able to consistently throw his fastball from 90-94 mph. His slider, although inconsistent, has a chance to be a strikeout pitch. His changeup has the chance to be an average pitch but can help complement his fastball and slider if they aren't being commanded well. Lovegrove also has the ability to add muscle to his lean frame, which could mean added velocity. A team that thinks that it could smooth out his mechanics will take a chance on him and could end up getting great value.

He can attend the side sessions that Ubaldo is attending. Works out perfectly.

Not sure why an organization that is being killed by Fausto and Ubaldo over the last couple of years wants to make a run at smoothing out some mechanics?

This SoCal right-hander has great upside but has been inconsistent throughout his career. His delivery has a short stride and relies mostly on arm action, but he is able to consistently throw his fastball from 90-94 mph. His slider, although inconsistent, has a chance to be a strikeout pitch. His changeup has the chance to be an average pitch but can help complement his fastball and slider if they aren't being commanded well. Lovegrove also has the ability to add muscle to his lean frame, which could mean added velocity. A team that thinks that it could smooth out his mechanics will take a chance on him and could end up getting great value.

He can attend the side sessions that Ubaldo is attending. Works out perfectly.

Not sure why an organization that is being killed by Fausto and Ubaldo over the last couple of years wants to make a run at smoothing out some mechanics?

Over/Under on TJ Surgery is July 2013.

It's a 3rd round pick. If it doesn't work out, no big deal. If it does, they got a steal. Would you rather they drafted a "polished" college arm, a strikethrowing, soft tossing lefty with limited ceiling but a better chance to be a bullpen arm? Everyone (myself included) wants them to draft for upside, take some chances, get some toolsy high schoolers, not draft safe. So when they do that, we bitch. Just because Fausto and Ubaldo are too dumb/stubborn to alter their mechanics at the big league level, it means that the entire Indians developmental staff is incompetent and unable to tweak a high school pitchers delivery?

You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves-----Abe Lincoln

Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts. -----Lars

Third round picks are throw aways these days? Gonna make the next 40 of em pretty nondescript. Maybe we are still saving $$$ to grab that over slot guy in the 8th though, so it makes sense.

Pretty sure in the Ubaldo thread I made my point about changing a guys mechanics. They say smooth, I say change. Maybe this guy is only a hip turn or knee bend or something small that would not be a big deal, but for someone to place it in his scouting report my thought would be it is something with either extension/slot/follow through. Those are major obstacles that lead to more surgeries than wins, so I would avoid them whether we had Fausto/Ubaldo or not.

And I never asked for high upside, or this, or that, or anything as far as the draft goes. I ask they get guys that have the best shot at playing downtown someday, and if they pick someone that appears to have built in obstacles, I will say it. Doesn't make a damn bit of difference if he is 18 or 24.

Could be the guy they were saving money for to keep him away from school?

D'Vone McClure, OF, Jackson, AR 6'3" 190

An outstanding athlete who played football in high school but then gave up the gridiron to focus on the diamond and take a baseball scholarship to Arkansas. If he gets drafted as early as it seems he might, he may never be a Razorback. McClure has some tools, particularly with a bat in his hands. He has excellent bat speed and should grow into plenty of power as he matures. Whether he stays in center field remains to be seen, but he could have enough bat to profile just fine at an outfield corner spot.

Third round picks are throw aways these days? Gonna make the next 40 of em pretty nondescript. Maybe we are still saving $$$ to grab that over slot guy in the 8th though, so it makes sense.

Pretty sure in the Ubaldo thread I made my point about changing a guys mechanics. They say smooth, I say change. Maybe this guy is only a hip turn or knee bend or something small that would not be a big deal, but for someone to place it in his scouting report my thought would be it is something with either extension/slot/follow through. Those are major obstacles that lead to more surgeries than wins, so I would avoid them whether we had Fausto/Ubaldo or not.

And I never asked for high upside, or this, or that, or anything as far as the draft goes. I ask they get guys that have the best shot at playing downtown someday, and if they pick someone that appears to have built in obstacles, I will say it. Doesn't make a damn bit of difference if he is 18 or 24.

Like it says in the writeup, it's a short stride that causes him to use too much of his arm and not enough of his lower half. That's not a minor change, but it's not breaking down an guy and starting from scratch either. If he can already touch 95 without using his legs, he can be reasonably expected to pick up a little velo if they can get him engaging his lower half. And the point about the age is that he's not as ingrained into his mechanical flaws as an Ubaldo, Fausto or even a college arm because he's younger and hasn't been doing it the wrong way as long as someone older than him. It's easier to fix high school mechanical flaws than college or professional, I'm sure you'll agree. Comparing this kid to Ubaldo is just silly.

Trevor Crowe and Jeremy Sowers had great shots at playing downtown when they were drafted, and both did. How did that work out? This kid has a better shot of actually being relevant to a winning team. For where they took him, he could be a potential steal. Even if it doesn't work out, I completely understand the philosiphy that caused them to take him and can't fault them for it.

You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves-----Abe Lincoln

Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts. -----Lars

Another high schooler in the 4th round, 6'3", 190lb OF D'Vone McLure. BA #91, Law #93. They really are going boom or bust in this part of the draft. From Law:

McClure is an excellent athlete with one of the best bodies in the draft, but he's extremely raw across the board and is likely a long-term player development project for a team willing to wait five years to see a real return on its investment. McClure looks good in the uniform with a trim waist, wide shoulders and good flexibility; he's an above-average runner and has arm strength but doesn't always get his front foot down in time to throw accurately, similar to Domonic Brown when he was first coming up with the Phillies.

At the plate, he has bat speed and pretty good hand-eye coordination, but his recognition is poor and he swings and misses too often at the high school level. He lands with his front foot turned out and doesn't have great loft in his swing. He's in center now but likely ends up in a corner in pro ball. He's a great upside play in the third-round range, but very high-risk as well.