*Big shout out to Steve Young for introducing the term "midling" to the football lexicon.

I wonder if now that Tom Coughlin has won his second championship in grand fashion if he'll start getting the Belichick treatment with fans and Media. Ya know that treatmeat that says "when in doubt don't bet against Belichick" "Belichick has two weeks come up with a game plan he can't lose."

Maybe now Tom Coughlin will start getting respected as a football mastermind. He's done a great job against all odds and he didn't even need to breach security and illegally film the opponents practice sessions to do it.

He's a great coach. I'll admit it took me a Superbowl run to warm up to him but I'm glad we have him.

Before I really get into What Eli has just accomplished I just want to share my total distain for what I call "The Trent Dilfer Fallacy".

Once the Giants won their first Superbowl the Eli Manning haters immediately started with the Trent Dilfer comparisons. Well they weren't really comparisons as much as they were a blatant show of disrespect to both Eli Manning and Trent Dilfer.

There was really only one thing linking the two players and that was the 1 Super Bowl ring. They really had nothing else in common. I heard innacurate arguments of how both were "average" quarterbacks who rode their defense to a title ignoring Manning's magnificent play throughout the playoffs and in the Superbowl. And what's worse is this argument basically suggests that Trent Dilfer should appologize for winning a Super Bowl. The people who made this argument inadvertantly mocked Dilfer despite really only wanting to mock Manning.

Speaking of mocking I just want to remind the GMB faithful how I was mocked back in week 17 for saying that Eli Manning was the best QB in the NFL. Those same people who mocked me will probably still say that Rogers and Brees and Brady are better right up until enough clowns on ESPN say otherwise. Congrats on being completely unoriginal.

But now Eli has ring number 2. So I'm just gonna sit back and wait on the next BS argument to come out against our quarterback.

The last thing I want to say is back in august I posted about how we should appreciate Eli for what he is which is basically a big moment if not big stats QB. I'd take Eli and his dramatic finishes and unbelievable throws at the most pressing moments over meaningless regular season records. Who knew he might even get a few of those meaningless records on top of the record that counts.

Well I'm happy to say The Book Of Eli gets better with every new chapter. There is always a great comeback or great throw. There's suspense and drama. Might be the best QB book in the history of QB books.

Now you'll have to excuse me as peruse all posts to bump to gloat on how absolutely right I was.

repeatchamps

02-08-2012, 01:29 PM

*Big shout out to Steve Young for introducing the term "midling" to the football lexicon. I wonder if now that Tom Coughlin has won his second championship in grand fashion if he'll start getting the Belichick treatment with fans and Media. Ya know that treatmeat that says "when in doubt don't bet against Belichick" "Belichick has two weeks come up with a game plan he can't lose." Maybe now Tom Coughlin will start getting respected as a football mastermind. He's done a great job against all odds and he didn't even need to breach security and illegally film the opponents practice sessions to do it. He's a great coach. I'll admit it took me a Superbowl run to warm up to him but I'm glad we have him. Before I really get into What Eli has just accomplished I just want to share my total distain for what I call "The Trent Dilfer Fallacy". Once the Giants won their first Superbowl the Eli Manning haters immediately started with the Trent Dilfer comparisons. Well they weren't really comparisons as much as they were a blatant show of disrespect to both Eli Manning and Trent Dilfer. There was really only one thing linking the two players and that was the 1 Super Bowl ring. They really had nothing else in common. I heard innacurate arguments of how both were "average" quarterbacks who rode their defense to a title ignoring Manning's magnificent play throughout the playoffs and in the Superbowl. And what's worse is this argument basically suggests that Trent Dilfer should appologize for winning a Super Bowl. The people who made this argument inadvertantly mocked Dilfer despite really only wanting to mock Manning. Speaking of mocking I just want to remind the GMB faithful how I was mocked back in week 17 for saying that Eli Manning was the best QB in the NFL. Those same people who mocked me will probably still say that Rogers and Brees and Brady are better right up until enough clowns on ESPN say otherwise. Congrats on being completely unoriginal. But now Eli has ring number 2. So I'm just gonna sit back and wait on the next BS argument to come out against our quarterback. The last thing I want to say is back in august I posted about how we should appreciate Eli for what he is which is basically a big moment if not big stats QB. I'd take Eli and his dramatic finishes and unbelievable throws at the most pressing moments over meaningless regular season records. Who new he might even get a few of those meaningless records on top of the record that counts. Well I'm happy to say The Book Of Eli gets better with every new chapter. There is always a great comeback or great throw. There's suspense and drama. Might be the best QB book in the history of QB books. Now you'll have to excuse me as peruse all posts to bump to gloat on how absolutely right I was.</P>

I agree with everything you are saying. The best description I heard about Eli since Sunday was on Francessa's show. Kim something or other came on and said that a Giants person (she wouldn't say who it was) described Eli as the Baby-Faced Assassin. Perfectly described in my opinion.</P>

Roosevelt

02-08-2012, 01:43 PM

*Big shout out to Steve Young for introducing the term "midling" to the football lexicon.

I wonder if now that Tom Coughlin has won his second championship in grand fashion if he'll start getting the Belichick treatment with fans and Media. Ya know that treatmeat that says "when in doubt don't bet against Belichick" "Belichick has two weeks come up with a game plan he can't lose."

Maybe now Tom Coughlin will start getting respected as a football mastermind. He's done a great job against all odds and he didn't even need to breach security and illegally film the opponents practice sessions to do it.

He's a great coach. I'll admit it took me a Superbowl run to warm up to him but I'm glad we have him.

Before I really get into What Eli has just accomplished I just want to share my total distain for what I call "The Trent Dilfer Fallacy".

Once the Giants won their first Superbowl the Eli Manning haters immediately started with the Trent Dilfer comparisons. Well they weren't really comparisons as much as they were a blatant show of disrespect to both Eli Manning and Trent Dilfer.

There was really only one thing linking the two players and that was the 1 Super Bowl ring. They really had nothing else in common. I heard innacurate arguments of how both were "average" quarterbacks who rode their defense to a title ignoring Manning's magnificent play throughout the playoffs and in the Superbowl. And what's worse is this argument basically suggests that Trent Dilfer should appologize for winning a Super Bowl. The people who made this argument inadvertantly mocked Dilfer despite really only wanting to mock Manning.

Speaking of mocking I just want to remind the GMB faithful how I was mocked back in week 17 for saying that Eli Manning was the best QB in the NFL. Those same people who mocked me will probably still say that Rogers and Brees and Brady are better right up until enough clowns on ESPN say otherwise. Congrats on being completely unoriginal.

But now Eli has ring number 2. So <font size="4">I'm just gonna sit back and wait on the next BS argument to come out against our quarterback.</font>

The last thing I want to say is back in august I posted about how we should appreciate Eli for what he is which is basically a big moment if not big stats QB. I'd take Eli and his dramatic finishes and unbelievable throws at the most pressing moments over meaningless regular season records. Who knew he might even get a few of those meaningless records on top of the record that counts.

Well I'm happy to say The Book Of Eli gets better with every new chapter. There is always a great comeback or great throw. There's suspense and drama. Might be the best QB book in the history of QB books.

Now you'll have to excuse me as peruse all posts to bump to gloat on how absolutely right I was.

You ought to get mocked for this post too.

I was right!

I was right I'm telling ya!

I was right!

Roosevelt

02-08-2012, 01:44 PM

I agree with everything you are saying. The best description I heard about Eli since Sunday was on Francessa's show. Kim something or other came on and said that a Giants person (she wouldn't say who it was) described Eli as the Baby-Faced Assassin. Perfectly described in my opinion.</p>

Yeah, that was good.

burier

02-08-2012, 01:47 PM

*Big shout out to Steve Young for introducing the term "midling" to the football lexicon.

I wonder if now that Tom Coughlin has won his second championship in grand fashion if he'll start getting the Belichick treatment with fans and Media. Ya know that treatmeat that says "when in doubt don't bet against Belichick" "Belichick has two weeks come up with a game plan he can't lose."

Maybe now Tom Coughlin will start getting respected as a football mastermind. He's done a great job against all odds and he didn't even need to breach security and illegally film the opponents practice sessions to do it.

He's a great coach. I'll admit it took me a Superbowl run to warm up to him but I'm glad we have him.

Before I really get into What Eli has just accomplished I just want to share my total distain for what I call "The Trent Dilfer Fallacy".

Once the Giants won their first Superbowl the Eli Manning haters immediately started with the Trent Dilfer comparisons. Well they weren't really comparisons as much as they were a blatant show of disrespect to both Eli Manning and Trent Dilfer.

There was really only one thing linking the two players and that was the 1 Super Bowl ring. They really had nothing else in common. I heard innacurate arguments of how both were "average" quarterbacks who rode their defense to a title ignoring Manning's magnificent play throughout the playoffs and in the Superbowl. And what's worse is this argument basically suggests that Trent Dilfer should appologize for winning a Super Bowl. The people who made this argument inadvertantly mocked Dilfer despite really only wanting to mock Manning.

Speaking of mocking I just want to remind the GMB faithful how I was mocked back in week 17 for saying that Eli Manning was the best QB in the NFL. Those same people who mocked me will probably still say that Rogers and Brees and Brady are better right up until enough clowns on ESPN say otherwise. Congrats on being completely unoriginal.

But now Eli has ring number 2. So <font size="4">I'm just gonna sit back and wait on the next BS argument to come out against our quarterback.</font>

The last thing I want to say is back in august I posted about how we should appreciate Eli for what he is which is basically a big moment if not big stats QB. I'd take Eli and his dramatic finishes and unbelievable throws at the most pressing moments over meaningless regular season records. Who knew he might even get a few of those meaningless records on top of the record that counts.

Well I'm happy to say The Book Of Eli gets better with every new chapter. There is always a great comeback or great throw. There's suspense and drama. Might be the best QB book in the history of QB books.

Now you'll have to excuse me as peruse all posts to bump to gloat on how absolutely right I was.

You ought to get mocked for this post too.*

I was right!

I was right I'm telling ya!

I was right!

Says the poster who is most frequently wrong.

GameTime

02-08-2012, 01:50 PM

Eli said it himself. he just want s to get better every year. He descibed Brady as being a better QB now then he was when he won the 3 SBs and that was his comparrison to Brady. Thats he just wants to improve every year.</P>

Eli.....you have your own style and you havethe faith of all the players and coaches. </P>

Oh yeah,......and two rings and MVPsto boot....</P>

</P>

</P>

NYG4ME

02-08-2012, 02:19 PM

I agree with everything you are saying. The best description I heard about Eli since Sunday was on Francessa's show. Kim something or other came on and said that a Giants person (she wouldn't say who it was) described Eli as the Baby-Faced Assassin. Perfectly described in my opinion.</p>

Yeah, that was good.

That seems like a perfect description.

Roosevelt

02-08-2012, 03:10 PM

*Big shout out to Steve Young for introducing the term "midling" to the football lexicon.

I wonder if now that Tom Coughlin has won his second championship in grand fashion if he'll start getting the Belichick treatment with fans and Media. Ya know that treatmeat that says "when in doubt don't bet against Belichick" "Belichick has two weeks come up with a game plan he can't lose."

Maybe now Tom Coughlin will start getting respected as a football mastermind. He's done a great job against all odds and he didn't even need to breach security and illegally film the opponents practice sessions to do it.

He's a great coach. I'll admit it took me a Superbowl run to warm up to him but I'm glad we have him.

Before I really get into What Eli has just accomplished I just want to share my total distain for what I call "The Trent Dilfer Fallacy".

Once the Giants won their first Superbowl the Eli Manning haters immediately started with the Trent Dilfer comparisons. Well they weren't really comparisons as much as they were a blatant show of disrespect to both Eli Manning and Trent Dilfer.

There was really only one thing linking the two players and that was the 1 Super Bowl ring. They really had nothing else in common. I heard innacurate arguments of how both were "average" quarterbacks who rode their defense to a title ignoring Manning's magnificent play throughout the playoffs and in the Superbowl. And what's worse is this argument basically suggests that Trent Dilfer should appologize for winning a Super Bowl. The people who made this argument inadvertantly mocked Dilfer despite really only wanting to mock Manning.

Speaking of mocking I just want to remind the GMB faithful how I was mocked back in week 17 for saying that Eli Manning was the best QB in the NFL. Those same people who mocked me will probably still say that Rogers and Brees and Brady are better right up until enough clowns on ESPN say otherwise. Congrats on being completely unoriginal.

But now Eli has ring number 2. So <font size="4">I'm just gonna sit back and wait on the next BS argument to come out against our quarterback.</font>

The last thing I want to say is back in august I posted about how we should appreciate Eli for what he is which is basically a big moment if not big stats QB. I'd take Eli and his dramatic finishes and unbelievable throws at the most pressing moments over meaningless regular season records. Who knew he might even get a few of those meaningless records on top of the record that counts.

Well I'm happy to say The Book Of Eli gets better with every new chapter. There is always a great comeback or great throw. There's suspense and drama. Might be the best QB book in the history of QB books.

Now you'll have to excuse me as peruse all posts to bump to gloat on how absolutely right I was.

You ought to get mocked for this post too.

I was right!

I was right I'm telling ya!

I was right!

Says the poster who is most frequently wrong.

Seriously, put up or shut up.

Post ANYTHING I ever said about any player, let alone Eli that was wrong.

I've already challenged you on this before and you get quiet.

So if you can't back it up why say it?

Roosevelt

02-08-2012, 03:11 PM

Eli said it himself. he just want s to get better every year. He descibed Brady as being a better QB now then he was when he won the 3 SBs and that was his comparrison to Brady. Thats he just wants to improve every year.</p>

Eli.....you have your own style and you havethe faith of all the players and coaches. </p>

Oh yeah,......and two rings and MVPsto boot....</p>

</p>

</p>

I found that pretty incredible - that he still spoke about improving his game. You gotta love that.
</p>

burier

02-08-2012, 03:19 PM

*Big shout out to Steve Young for introducing the term "midling" to the football lexicon.

I wonder if now that Tom Coughlin has won his second championship in grand fashion if he'll start getting the Belichick treatment with fans and Media. Ya know that treatmeat that says "when in doubt don't bet against Belichick" "Belichick has two weeks come up with a game plan he can't lose."

Maybe now Tom Coughlin will start getting respected as a football mastermind. He's done a great job against all odds and he didn't even need to breach security and illegally film the opponents practice sessions to do it.

He's a great coach. I'll admit it took me a Superbowl run to warm up to him but I'm glad we have him.

Before I really get into What Eli has just accomplished I just want to share my total distain for what I call "The Trent Dilfer Fallacy".

Once the Giants won their first Superbowl the Eli Manning haters immediately started with the Trent Dilfer comparisons. Well they weren't really comparisons as much as they were a blatant show of disrespect to both Eli Manning and Trent Dilfer.

There was really only one thing linking the two players and that was the 1 Super Bowl ring. They really had nothing else in common. I heard innacurate arguments of how both were "average" quarterbacks who rode their defense to a title ignoring Manning's magnificent play throughout the playoffs and in the Superbowl. And what's worse is this argument basically suggests that Trent Dilfer should appologize for winning a Super Bowl. The people who made this argument inadvertantly mocked Dilfer despite really only wanting to mock Manning.

Speaking of mocking I just want to remind the GMB faithful how I was mocked back in week 17 for saying that Eli Manning was the best QB in the NFL. Those same people who mocked me will probably still say that Rogers and Brees and Brady are better right up until enough clowns on ESPN say otherwise. Congrats on being completely unoriginal.

But now Eli has ring number 2. So <font size="4">I'm just gonna sit back and wait on the next BS argument to come out against our quarterback.</font>

The last thing I want to say is back in august I posted about how we should appreciate Eli for what he is which is basically a big moment if not big stats QB. I'd take Eli and his dramatic finishes and unbelievable throws at the most pressing moments over meaningless regular season records. Who knew he might even get a few of those meaningless records on top of the record that counts.

Well I'm happy to say The Book Of Eli gets better with every new chapter. There is always a great comeback or great throw. There's suspense and drama. Might be the best QB book in the history of QB books.

Now you'll have to excuse me as peruse all posts to bump to gloat on how absolutely right I was.

You ought to get mocked for this post too.*

I was right!

I was right I'm telling ya!

I was right!

Says the poster who is most frequently wrong.

Seriously, put up or shut up.

Post ANYTHING I ever said about any player, let alone Eli that was wrong.*

I've already challenged you on this before and you get quiet.

So if you can't back it up why say it?

Whoa cowboy. When have you challenged me and I got quiet. That **** simply never happened with my knowledge.

And your memory is selective.

Do you remember this discussion?

You said Eli has never been in a MVP discussion as evidence that Eli played better tthis season than he played in any other season BY A WIDE MARGIN.

I promptly posted links where Eli was discussed as an MVP canditate from every single season after the SB run. 08, 09 and 2010.

You then backpeddled and said "well those are all from october Show me something from a November or December." Failing to realize that that satement actually made my point since Eli this year fell out of MVP talks in November as well.

So your move. You gonna deny that happened?

CDN_G-FAN

02-08-2012, 03:25 PM

since we're disspelling previous myths based on our 1 Superbowl under Coughlin.</P>

We can now comfortabley say that we didn't win the last one soley because of Spags.</P>

The discounting of Coughlin's contribution to these championships was eliminated when he won his 2nd in 4 years.</P>

simms56

02-08-2012, 03:30 PM

The Dilfer argument is almost as absurd as the "it was just the defense" argument. I STILL am seeing people posting about how Eli is not a top tier QB but that Ryan and Romo are. The absurdity and sheepish mentality of Americans never ceases to amaze me. Suffice is to say that I would take Eli over any QB and that is all that matters. He is his best when it counts.

burier

02-08-2012, 03:50 PM

since we're disspelling previous myths based on our 1 Superbowl under Coughlin.</P>

We can now comfortabley say that we didn't win the last one soley because of Spags.</P>

The discounting of Coughlin's contribution to these championships was eliminated when he won his 2nd in 4 years.</P>

lets definately add that.

Spags did a great Job but defeinately got more credit than he was due.

The Giants had a great playoff run on both sides of the ball.

jjj45

02-08-2012, 04:09 PM

since we're disspelling previous myths based on our 1 Superbowl under Coughlin.</p>

We can now comfortabley say that we didn't win the last one soley because of Spags.</p>

The discounting of Coughlin's contribution to these championships was eliminated when he won his 2nd in 4 years.</p>Great point. TC has proved that it was his philosophy all along. Spags greatly helped, but none of us can say that we won <u>only</u> because of Spagnuolo.

Having said that, I definitely want him back here coaching for us in the future. After TC retires.

PoloGroundsFan

02-09-2012, 01:56 PM

I don't know if Eli is the best, but he is certainly the best Giant QB I have seen and I go back to the 1940's. The only one that seems reluctant to give Eli his due is Phil Simms. While Phil was good he cannot match Eli's ability to stay healthy and to win in clutch situations. Phil just seems to have a chip on his shoulder that prevents him from going all in on Eli.

bklyn1028

02-09-2012, 02:47 PM

The Dilfer argument is almost as absurd as the "it was just the defense" argument.* I STILL am seeing people posting about how Eli is not a top tier QB but that Ryan and Romo are.* The absurdity and sheepish mentality of Americans never ceases to amaze me.* Suffice is to say that I would take Eli over any QB and that is all that matters.* He is his best when it counts.

I said that exact same thing at work and at home. As of now, I would take Eli as a QB over any other NFL QB bar none, NONE. My son-in-law who finally agreed with me,- to a degree - when I said Eli was as good or better than Peyton said 2 things:
"You have an argument there, maybe not better than his brother, but you can say Peyton isn't better than Eli." and
#2:
"Eli will go down as probably the most "clutch" QB in nfl history."
Finally some recognition for the kid.

When a QB can CONSISTENTLY play clutch in the 4th quarter, behind and the game on the line, either in the regular or post season, that is a quality most just don't have. Romo doesn't have it, and Rodgers showed it once, when the played the jints, once. Eli showed it many many times in crucial moments. Nah, I'll take him over anyone right now, he's proven himself. Jesus, he beat Brady 3 friggin times in 4 years for cripes sakes, and Brady is considered one of the best who ever played the game. What more does this kid have to do, marry a supermodel?

And the best part. he doesn't give a rats @ss what anyone thinks.

That my friends is the mark of a champion.

Roosevelt

02-09-2012, 03:02 PM

*Big shout out to Steve Young for introducing the term "midling" to the football lexicon.

I wonder if now that Tom Coughlin has won his second championship in grand fashion if he'll start getting the Belichick treatment with fans and Media. Ya know that treatmeat that says "when in doubt don't bet against Belichick" "Belichick has two weeks come up with a game plan he can't lose."

Maybe now Tom Coughlin will start getting respected as a football mastermind. He's done a great job against all odds and he didn't even need to breach security and illegally film the opponents practice sessions to do it.

He's a great coach. I'll admit it took me a Superbowl run to warm up to him but I'm glad we have him.

Before I really get into What Eli has just accomplished I just want to share my total distain for what I call "The Trent Dilfer Fallacy".

Once the Giants won their first Superbowl the Eli Manning haters immediately started with the Trent Dilfer comparisons. Well they weren't really comparisons as much as they were a blatant show of disrespect to both Eli Manning and Trent Dilfer.

There was really only one thing linking the two players and that was the 1 Super Bowl ring. They really had nothing else in common. I heard innacurate arguments of how both were "average" quarterbacks who rode their defense to a title ignoring Manning's magnificent play throughout the playoffs and in the Superbowl. And what's worse is this argument basically suggests that Trent Dilfer should appologize for winning a Super Bowl. The people who made this argument inadvertantly mocked Dilfer despite really only wanting to mock Manning.

Speaking of mocking I just want to remind the GMB faithful how I was mocked back in week 17 for saying that Eli Manning was the best QB in the NFL. Those same people who mocked me will probably still say that Rogers and Brees and Brady are better right up until enough clowns on ESPN say otherwise. Congrats on being completely unoriginal.

But now Eli has ring number 2. So <font size="4">I'm just gonna sit back and wait on the next BS argument to come out against our quarterback.</font>

The last thing I want to say is back in august I posted about how we should appreciate Eli for what he is which is basically a big moment if not big stats QB. I'd take Eli and his dramatic finishes and unbelievable throws at the most pressing moments over meaningless regular season records. Who knew he might even get a few of those meaningless records on top of the record that counts.

Well I'm happy to say The Book Of Eli gets better with every new chapter. There is always a great comeback or great throw. There's suspense and drama. Might be the best QB book in the history of QB books.

Now you'll have to excuse me as peruse all posts to bump to gloat on how absolutely right I was.

You ought to get mocked for this post too.

I was right!

I was right I'm telling ya!

I was right!

Says the poster who is most frequently wrong.

Seriously, put up or shut up.

Post ANYTHING I ever said about any player, let alone Eli that was wrong.

I've already challenged you on this before and you get quiet.

So if you can't back it up why say it?

Whoa cowboy. When have you challenged me and I got quiet. That **** simply never happened with my knowledge.

And your memory is selective.

Do you remember this discussion?

You said Eli has never been in a MVP discussion as evidence that Eli played better tthis season than he played in any other season BY A WIDE MARGIN.

I promptly posted links where Eli was discussed as an MVP canditate from every single season after the SB run. 08, 09 and 2010.

You then backpeddled and said "well those are all from october Show me something from a November or December." Failing to realize that that satement actually made my point since Eli this year fell out of MVP talks in November as well.

So your move. You gonna deny that happened?

Ah, so because I made the point that no one with any credibility would seriously consider Eli Manning the MVP of the NFL prior to this year, and you pulled out discussions of talk during October, you believe it's accurate to try and portray me as the poster who is most frequently wrong?

So let's look at it. Why did the talk end in those years, and why did it end this year?

gumby742

02-09-2012, 03:03 PM

*Big shout out to Steve Young for introducing the term "midling" to the football lexicon. I wonder if now that Tom Coughlin has won his second championship in grand fashion if he'll start getting the Belichick treatment with fans and Media. Ya know that treatmeat that says "when in doubt don't bet against Belichick" "Belichick has two weeks come up with a game plan he can't lose." Maybe now Tom Coughlin will start getting respected as a football mastermind. He's done a great job against all odds and he didn't even need to breach security and illegally film the opponents practice sessions to do it. He's a great coach. I'll admit it took me a Superbowl run to warm up to him but I'm glad we have him. Before I really get into What Eli has just accomplished I just want to share my total distain for what I call "The Trent Dilfer Fallacy". Once the Giants won their first Superbowl the Eli Manning haters immediately started with the Trent Dilfer comparisons. Well they weren't really comparisons as much as they were a blatant show of disrespect to both Eli Manning and Trent Dilfer. There was really only one thing linking the two players and that was the 1 Super Bowl ring. They really had nothing else in common. I heard innacurate arguments of how both were "average" quarterbacks who rode their defense to a title ignoring Manning's magnificent play throughout the playoffs and in the Superbowl. And what's worse is this argument basically suggests that Trent Dilfer should appologize for winning a Super Bowl. The people who made this argument inadvertantly mocked Dilfer despite really only wanting to mock Manning. Speaking of mocking I just want to remind the GMB faithful how I was mocked back in week 17 for saying that Eli Manning was the best QB in the NFL. Those same people who mocked me will probably still say that Rogers and Brees and Brady are better right up until enough clowns on ESPN say otherwise. Congrats on being completely unoriginal. But now Eli has ring number 2. So <FONT size=4>I'm just gonna sit back and wait on the next BS argument to come out against our quarterback.</FONT> The last thing I want to say is back in august I posted about how we should appreciate Eli for what he is which is basically a big moment if not big stats QB. I'd take Eli and his dramatic finishes and unbelievable throws at the most pressing moments over meaningless regular season records. Who knew he might even get a few of those meaningless records on top of the record that counts. Well I'm happy to say The Book Of Eli gets better with every new chapter. There is always a great comeback or great throw. There's suspense and drama. Might be the best QB book in the history of QB books. Now you'll have to excuse me as peruse all posts to bump to gloat on how absolutely right I was.

You ought to get mocked for this post too.

I was right!

I was right I'm telling ya!

I was right!

Says the poster who is most frequently wrong.

Seriously, put up or shut up.

Post ANYTHING I ever said about any player, let alone Eli that was wrong.

I've already challenged you on this before and you get quiet.

So if you can't back it up why say it?
Whoa cowboy. When have you challenged me and I got quiet. That **** simply never happened with my knowledge. And your memory is selective. Do you remember this discussion? You said Eli has never been in a MVP discussion as evidence that Eli played better tthis season than he played in any other season BY A WIDE MARGIN. I promptly posted links where Eli was discussed as an MVP canditate from every single season after the SB run. 08, 09 and 2010. You then backpeddled and said "well those are all from october Show me something from a November or December." Failing to realize that that satement actually made my point since Eli this year fell out of MVP talks in November as well. So your move. You gonna deny that happened?</P>

You're the absolute king of staying quiet when you realize you're just not smart enough to rationalize what people are saying. That or you choose to ignore entire sections of posts.</P>

Roosevelt

02-09-2012, 03:05 PM

*Big shout out to Steve Young for introducing the term "midling" to the football lexicon. I wonder if now that Tom Coughlin has won his second championship in grand fashion if he'll start getting the Belichick treatment with fans and Media. Ya know that treatmeat that says "when in doubt don't bet against Belichick" "Belichick has two weeks come up with a game plan he can't lose." Maybe now Tom Coughlin will start getting respected as a football mastermind. He's done a great job against all odds and he didn't even need to breach security and illegally film the opponents practice sessions to do it. He's a great coach. I'll admit it took me a Superbowl run to warm up to him but I'm glad we have him. Before I really get into What Eli has just accomplished I just want to share my total distain for what I call "The Trent Dilfer Fallacy". Once the Giants won their first Superbowl the Eli Manning haters immediately started with the Trent Dilfer comparisons. Well they weren't really comparisons as much as they were a blatant show of disrespect to both Eli Manning and Trent Dilfer. There was really only one thing linking the two players and that was the 1 Super Bowl ring. They really had nothing else in common. I heard innacurate arguments of how both were "average" quarterbacks who rode their defense to a title ignoring Manning's magnificent play throughout the playoffs and in the Superbowl. And what's worse is this argument basically suggests that Trent Dilfer should appologize for winning a Super Bowl. The people who made this argument inadvertantly mocked Dilfer despite really only wanting to mock Manning. Speaking of mocking I just want to remind the GMB faithful how I was mocked back in week 17 for saying that Eli Manning was the best QB in the NFL. Those same people who mocked me will probably still say that Rogers and Brees and Brady are better right up until enough clowns on ESPN say otherwise. Congrats on being completely unoriginal. But now Eli has ring number 2. So <font size="4">I'm just gonna sit back and wait on the next BS argument to come out against our quarterback.</font> The last thing I want to say is back in august I posted about how we should appreciate Eli for what he is which is basically a big moment if not big stats QB. I'd take Eli and his dramatic finishes and unbelievable throws at the most pressing moments over meaningless regular season records. Who knew he might even get a few of those meaningless records on top of the record that counts. Well I'm happy to say The Book Of Eli gets better with every new chapter. There is always a great comeback or great throw. There's suspense and drama. Might be the best QB book in the history of QB books. Now you'll have to excuse me as peruse all posts to bump to gloat on how absolutely right I was.

You ought to get mocked for this post too.

I was right!

I was right I'm telling ya!

I was right!

Says the poster who is most frequently wrong.

Seriously, put up or shut up.

Post ANYTHING I ever said about any player, let alone Eli that was wrong.

I've already challenged you on this before and you get quiet.

So if you can't back it up why say it?
Whoa cowboy. When have you challenged me and I got quiet. That **** simply never happened with my knowledge. And your memory is selective. Do you remember this discussion? You said Eli has never been in a MVP discussion as evidence that Eli played better tthis season than he played in any other season BY A WIDE MARGIN. I promptly posted links where Eli was discussed as an MVP canditate from every single season after the SB run. 08, 09 and 2010. You then backpeddled and said "well those are all from october Show me something from a November or December." Failing to realize that that satement actually made my point since Eli this year fell out of MVP talks in November as well. So your move. You gonna deny that happened?</p>

You're the absolute king of staying quiet when you realize you're just not smart enough to rationalize what people are saying. That or you choose to ignore entire sections of posts.</p>

+1.

Here he acts like there were serious MVP discussions for Eli in 2008, 2009 &amp; 2010. How delusional is that?

burier

02-09-2012, 03:07 PM

*Big shout out to Steve Young for introducing the term "midling" to the football lexicon. I wonder if now that Tom Coughlin has won his second championship in grand fashion if he'll start getting the Belichick treatment with fans and Media. Ya know that treatmeat that says "when in doubt don't bet against Belichick" "Belichick has two weeks come up with a game plan he can't lose." Maybe now Tom Coughlin will start getting respected as a football mastermind. He's done a great job against all odds and he didn't even need to breach security and illegally film the opponents practice sessions to do it. He's a great coach. I'll admit it took me a Superbowl run to warm up to him but I'm glad we have him. Before I really get into What Eli has just accomplished I just want to share my total distain for what I call "The Trent Dilfer Fallacy". Once the Giants won their first Superbowl the Eli Manning haters immediately started with the Trent Dilfer comparisons. Well they weren't really comparisons as much as they were a blatant show of disrespect to both Eli Manning and Trent Dilfer. There was really only one thing linking the two players and that was the 1 Super Bowl ring. They really had nothing else in common. I heard innacurate arguments of how both were "average" quarterbacks who rode their defense to a title ignoring Manning's magnificent play throughout the playoffs and in the Superbowl. And what's worse is this argument basically suggests that Trent Dilfer should appologize for winning a Super Bowl. The people who made this argument inadvertantly mocked Dilfer despite really only wanting to mock Manning. Speaking of mocking I just want to remind the GMB faithful how I was mocked back in week 17 for saying that Eli Manning was the best QB in the NFL. Those same people who mocked me will probably still say that Rogers and Brees and Brady are better right up until enough clowns on ESPN say otherwise. Congrats on being completely unoriginal. But now Eli has ring number 2. So <FONT size=4>I'm just gonna sit back and wait on the next BS argument to come out against our quarterback.</FONT> The last thing I want to say is back in august I posted about how we should appreciate Eli for what he is which is basically a big moment if not big stats QB. I'd take Eli and his dramatic finishes and unbelievable throws at the most pressing moments over meaningless regular season records. Who knew he might even get a few of those meaningless records on top of the record that counts. Well I'm happy to say The Book Of Eli gets better with every new chapter. There is always a great comeback or great throw. There's suspense and drama. Might be the best QB book in the history of QB books. Now you'll have to excuse me as peruse all posts to bump to gloat on how absolutely right I was.

You ought to get mocked for this post too.*

I was right!

I was right I'm telling ya!

I was right!

Says the poster who is most frequently wrong.

Seriously, put up or shut up.

Post ANYTHING I ever said about any player, let alone Eli that was wrong.*

I've already challenged you on this before and you get quiet.

So if you can't back it up why say it?
Whoa cowboy. When have you challenged me and I got quiet. That **** simply never happened with my knowledge. And your memory is selective. Do you remember this discussion? You said Eli has never been in a MVP discussion as evidence that Eli played better tthis season than he played in any other season BY A WIDE MARGIN. I promptly posted links where Eli was discussed as an MVP canditate from every single season after the SB run. 08, 09 and 2010. You then backpeddled and said "well those are all from october Show me something from a November or December." Failing to realize that that satement actually made my point since Eli this year fell out of MVP talks in November as well. So your move. You gonna deny that happened?</P>

You're the absolute king of staying quiet when you realize you're just not smart enough to rationalize what people are saying.* That or you choose to ignore entire sections of posts.</P>

Please dude. I've smacked you around these message boards to the point of bordem.

And I love how you run to Rosie's rescue cuz he wrote a check he couldn't cash.

*Big shout out to Steve Young for introducing the term "midling" to the football lexicon. I wonder if now that Tom Coughlin has won his second championship in grand fashion if he'll start getting the Belichick treatment with fans and Media. Ya know that treatmeat that says "when in doubt don't bet against Belichick" "Belichick has two weeks come up with a game plan he can't lose." Maybe now Tom Coughlin will start getting respected as a football mastermind. He's done a great job against all odds and he didn't even need to breach security and illegally film the opponents practice sessions to do it. He's a great coach. I'll admit it took me a Superbowl run to warm up to him but I'm glad we have him. Before I really get into What Eli has just accomplished I just want to share my total distain for what I call "The Trent Dilfer Fallacy". Once the Giants won their first Superbowl the Eli Manning haters immediately started with the Trent Dilfer comparisons. Well they weren't really comparisons as much as they were a blatant show of disrespect to both Eli Manning and Trent Dilfer. There was really only one thing linking the two players and that was the 1 Super Bowl ring. They really had nothing else in common. I heard innacurate arguments of how both were "average" quarterbacks who rode their defense to a title ignoring Manning's magnificent play throughout the playoffs and in the Superbowl. And what's worse is this argument basically suggests that Trent Dilfer should appologize for winning a Super Bowl. The people who made this argument inadvertantly mocked Dilfer despite really only wanting to mock Manning. Speaking of mocking I just want to remind the GMB faithful how I was mocked back in week 17 for saying that Eli Manning was the best QB in the NFL. Those same people who mocked me will probably still say that Rogers and Brees and Brady are better right up until enough clowns on ESPN say otherwise. Congrats on being completely unoriginal. But now Eli has ring number 2. So <font size="4">I'm just gonna sit back and wait on the next BS argument to come out against our quarterback.</font> The last thing I want to say is back in august I posted about how we should appreciate Eli for what he is which is basically a big moment if not big stats QB. I'd take Eli and his dramatic finishes and unbelievable throws at the most pressing moments over meaningless regular season records. Who knew he might even get a few of those meaningless records on top of the record that counts. Well I'm happy to say The Book Of Eli gets better with every new chapter. There is always a great comeback or great throw. There's suspense and drama. Might be the best QB book in the history of QB books. Now you'll have to excuse me as peruse all posts to bump to gloat on how absolutely right I was.

You ought to get mocked for this post too.*

I was right!

I was right I'm telling ya!

I was right!

Says the poster who is most frequently wrong.

Seriously, put up or shut up.

Post ANYTHING I ever said about any player, let alone Eli that was wrong.*

I've already challenged you on this before and you get quiet.

So if you can't back it up why say it?
Whoa cowboy. When have you challenged me and I got quiet. That **** simply never happened with my knowledge. And your memory is selective. Do you remember this discussion? You said Eli has never been in a MVP discussion as evidence that Eli played better tthis season than he played in any other season BY A WIDE MARGIN. I promptly posted links where Eli was discussed as an MVP canditate from every single season after the SB run. 08, 09 and 2010. You then backpeddled and said "well those are all from october Show me something from a November or December." Failing to realize that that satement actually made my point since Eli this year fell out of MVP talks in November as well. So your move. You gonna deny that happened?</p>

You're the absolute king of staying quiet when you realize you're just not smart enough to rationalize what people are saying.* That or you choose to ignore entire sections of posts.</p>

+1.

Here he acts like there were serious MVP discussions for Eli in 2008, 2009 & 2010.* How delusional is that?

You're a coward. I posted links and I'll post them again if you don't feel stupid enough already.

Is she Conan's wife?

02-09-2012, 04:20 PM

Once the Giants won their first Superbowl the Eli Manning haters immediately started with the Trent Dilfer comparisons. Well they weren't really comparisons as much as they were a blatant show of disrespect to both Eli Manning and Trent Dilfer.

There was really only one thing linking the two players and that was the 1 Super Bowl ring. They really had nothing else in common. I heard innacurate arguments of how both were "average" quarterbacks who rode their defense to a title ignoring Manning's magnificent play throughout the playoffs and in the Superbowl. And what's worse is this argument basically suggests that Trent Dilfer should appologize for winning a Super Bowl. The people who made this argument inadvertantly mocked Dilfer despite really only wanting to mock Manning.

lol. I think it was during the playoff run 4 years ago that I saw Dilfer on TV talking about Eli and saying that Eli's success in that run was due to him finally "managing the game". I'm paraphrasing here, but Dilfer then said something like "I know better than anyone that you'll be criticized if all you do is manage the game, but it's still something that you have to do". I remember being happy for Dilfer that he had the chance to say that on TV.

Drez

02-09-2012, 05:55 PM

since we're disspelling previous myths based on our 1 Superbowl under Coughlin.</P>

We can now comfortabley say that we didn't win the last one soley because of Spags.</P>

The discounting of Coughlin's contribution to these championships was eliminated when he won his 2nd in 4 years.</P>

</P>

Hear, freaking, hear.</P>

burier

04-05-2012, 05:17 PM

memories

JMFP2

04-05-2012, 06:48 PM

*Big shout out to Steve Young for introducing the term "midling" to the football lexicon.

I wonder if now that Tom Coughlin has won his second championship in grand fashion if he'll start getting the Belichick treatment with fans and Media. Ya know that treatmeat that says "when in doubt don't bet against Belichick" "Belichick has two weeks come up with a game plan he can't lose."

Maybe now Tom Coughlin will start getting respected as a football mastermind. He's done a great job against all odds and he didn't even need to breach security and illegally film the opponents practice sessions to do it.

He's a great coach. I'll admit it took me a Superbowl run to warm up to him but I'm glad we have him.

Before I really get into What Eli has just accomplished I just want to share my total distain for what I call "The Trent Dilfer Fallacy".

Once the Giants won their first Superbowl the Eli Manning haters immediately started with the Trent Dilfer comparisons. Well they weren't really comparisons as much as they were a blatant show of disrespect to both Eli Manning and Trent Dilfer.

There was really only one thing linking the two players and that was the 1 Super Bowl ring. They really had nothing else in common. I heard innacurate arguments of how both were "average" quarterbacks who rode their defense to a title ignoring Manning's magnificent play throughout the playoffs and in the Superbowl. And what's worse is this argument basically suggests that Trent Dilfer should appologize for winning a Super Bowl. The people who made this argument inadvertantly mocked Dilfer despite really only wanting to mock Manning.

Speaking of mocking I just want to remind the GMB faithful how I was mocked back in week 17 for saying that Eli Manning was the best QB in the NFL. Those same people who mocked me will probably still say that Rogers and Brees and Brady are better right up until enough clowns on ESPN say otherwise. Congrats on being completely unoriginal.

But now Eli has ring number 2. So I'm just gonna sit back and wait on the next BS argument to come out against our quarterback.

The last thing I want to say is back in august I posted about how we should appreciate Eli for what he is which is basically a big moment if not big stats QB. I'd take Eli and his dramatic finishes and unbelievable throws at the most pressing moments over meaningless regular season records. Who knew he might even get a few of those meaningless records on top of the record that counts.

Well I'm happy to say The Book Of Eli gets better with every new chapter. There is always a great comeback or great throw. There's suspense and drama. Might be the best QB book in the history of QB books.

Now you'll have to excuse me as peruse all posts to bump to gloat on how absolutely right I was.

Speaking as somone who has defended both Coughlin and Manning, I can't agree more.

GmenFan1980

04-05-2012, 06:55 PM

**** Steve Young and Trent Dilfer. That is all

jomo

04-05-2012, 07:09 PM

I agree with everything you are saying. The best description I heard about Eli since Sunday was on Francessa's show. Kim something or other came on and said that a Giants person (she wouldn't say who it was) described Eli as the Baby-Faced Assassin. Perfectly described in my opinion.</P>

Yeah, that was good.

That seems like a perfect description.
It is perfect but if you look at his face pre-game at the SB during America the Beautiful and Star Spangled Banner, I think that "Stone Cold Killer" is more appropriate. He just had that look.

B&RWarrior

04-05-2012, 07:55 PM

I'm hear to bring some reality to this thread. First off, I honestly never heard SB MVP Eli compared to SB champ Trent Dilfer that played with arguably the greatest defense of all time. Eli SB MVP; Trent Dilfer not a SB MVP hence it's not a good comparison.

Eli has NEVER been a serious candidate for regular season league MVP and rightly so. He's NEVER deserved to be. Even last year which was unquestionably his best year he wasn't in Brady, Rodgers, or Brees's league in terms of performance. Eli is not even close to being the best QB in the league. DO NOT ARGUE THIS POINT!!!

He's our guy and he took a big step forward last year, but let's keep things in perspective.

SweetZombieJesus

04-05-2012, 08:53 PM

The Dilfer argument is almost as absurd as the "it was just the defense" argument. I STILL am seeing people posting about how Eli is not a top tier QB but that Ryan and Romo are. The absurdity and sheepish mentality of Americans never ceases to amaze me. Suffice is to say that I would take Eli over any QB and that is all that matters. He is his best when it counts.

People get this template stuck in their minds, and it takes an open mind (and humble person) to admit when he's wrong and reevaluate his opinion.

The template on Eli was written in 2005 -- younger brother of a legend, can he possibly measure up? In '05 and '06 we saw some flashes along with some turkeys, so BAM! the template is written, Eli is a hapless shadow of his brother who regularly throws 4 picks a game.

Eagles fans are still living by that template despite the fact that he has a Lombardi for each arm.

SweetZombieJesus

04-05-2012, 08:57 PM

Eli has NEVER been a serious candidate for regular season league MVP and rightly so. He's NEVER deserved to be. Even last year which was unquestionably his best year he wasn't in Brady, Rodgers, or Brees's league in terms of performance. Eli is not even close to being the best QB in the league. DO NOT ARGUE THIS POINT!!!

He's our guy and he took a big step forward last year, but let's keep things in perspective.

Last year was as close as he's been, but who cares, really? All the top QBs have strengths and weaknesses. I wouldn't take anybody else in a close game with time running out. How many 4th quarter comebacks last year? 9? And breaking Johnny U and Peyton's record for 4th quarter TDs?

I view it like cars, there are great sports cars, great muscle cars, great off-roaders, great sedans. When you start trying to put these varied types in range of which is "best", clearly the comparison doesn't make sense. Is a 911 better than a Wrangler? They're both great at their strengths.

NYG 5

04-05-2012, 09:19 PM

i think the Trent Dilfer fallacy is a bit unfair to Trent Dilfer. sure, he isn't Peyton Manning, or a guy you could win with having him throw 40 times a game. but he was a cheap option to have in a power running offense (back when this was viable) who did exactly what was needed of him. you built your team spending money on defense and an offensive line, and it won you a super bowl. Trent did what he had to do to score some points so that the opposing offense couldn't just sleepwalk all game, which set up the defense to create scoring on their own. say what you want about him not being a good passer, he still threw two of the greatest passes in super bowl history, and that was all the Ravens needed. one to make the Giants play catch up, and one to take away the Giants field position and create scoring for themselves.

as for Eli, you couldn't compare him to Dilfer. Dilfer's legacy comes a couple plays, and one game. Eli's first legacy came from an entire postseason and final drive. they are incompatible.

now Eli has his own early glimpses, the first super bowl, the inter championship/first pro bowl years, and now the second super bowl woven into his legacy.

JMFP2

04-05-2012, 10:17 PM

i think the Trent Dilfer fallacy is a bit unfair to Trent Dilfer. sure, he isn't Peyton Manning, or a guy you could win with having him throw 40 times a game. but he was a cheap option to have in a power running offense (back when this was viable) who did exactly what was needed of him. you built your team spending money on defense and an offensive line, and it won you a super bowl. Trent did what he had to do to score some points so that the opposing offense couldn't just sleepwalk all game, which set up the defense to create scoring on their own. say what you want about him not being a good passer, he still threw two of the greatest passes in super bowl history, and that was all the Ravens needed. one to make the Giants play catch up, and one to take away the Giants field position and create scoring for themselves.

as for Eli, you couldn't compare him to Dilfer. Dilfer's legacy comes a couple plays, and one game. Eli's first legacy came from an entire postseason and final drive. they are incompatible.

now Eli has his own early glimpses, the first super bowl, the inter championship/first pro bowl years, and now the second super bowl woven into his legacy.
</P>

Excellent points.</P>

I never understood why so many people marginalized Dilfer....the guy proved he was capable of guiding his team to a championship. That's not easy.</P>

Bart Starr never threw for2500 yards in a single season....and he's in the Hall, and Steve DeBerg is not.</P>

</P>

B&RWarrior

04-05-2012, 10:27 PM

i think the Trent Dilfer fallacy is a bit unfair to Trent Dilfer. sure, he isn't Peyton Manning, or a guy you could win with having him throw 40 times a game. but he was a cheap option to have in a power running offense (back when this was viable) who did exactly what was needed of him. you built your team spending money on defense and an offensive line, and it won you a super bowl. Trent did what he had to do to score some points so that the opposing offense couldn't just sleepwalk all game, which set up the defense to create scoring on their own. say what you want about him not being a good passer, he still threw two of the greatest passes in super bowl history, and that was all the Ravens needed. one to make the Giants play catch up, and one to take away the Giants field position and create scoring for themselves.

as for Eli, you couldn't compare him to Dilfer. Dilfer's legacy comes a couple plays, and one game. Eli's first legacy came from an entire postseason and final drive. they are incompatible.

now Eli has his own early glimpses, the first super bowl, the inter championship/first pro bowl years, and now the second super bowl woven into his legacy.
</P>

Excellent points.</P>

I never understood why so many people marginalized Dilfer....the guy proved he was capable of guiding his team to a championship.* That's not easy.</P>

Bart Starr never threw for*2500 yards in a single season....and he's in the Hall, and Steve DeBerg is not.</P>

*</P>

Dilfer in no way shape or form GUIDED the Ravens to a championship. The team was guided by that sick D. He never had to make plays to win the game. His specific and stated role was not to lose the game. Dilfer was a sub-par QB who near the end of his career became a mediocre QB through experience.

JMFP2

04-05-2012, 10:49 PM

i think the Trent Dilfer fallacy is a bit unfair to Trent Dilfer. sure, he isn't Peyton Manning, or a guy you could win with having him throw 40 times a game. but he was a cheap option to have in a power running offense (back when this was viable) who did exactly what was needed of him. you built your team spending money on defense and an offensive line, and it won you a super bowl. Trent did what he had to do to score some points so that the opposing offense couldn't just sleepwalk all game, which set up the defense to create scoring on their own. say what you want about him not being a good passer, he still threw two of the greatest passes in super bowl history, and that was all the Ravens needed. one to make the Giants play catch up, and one to take away the Giants field position and create scoring for themselves.

as for Eli, you couldn't compare him to Dilfer. Dilfer's legacy comes a couple plays, and one game. Eli's first legacy came from an entire postseason and final drive. they are incompatible.

now Eli has his own early glimpses, the first super bowl, the inter championship/first pro bowl years, and now the second super bowl woven into his legacy.
</P>

Excellent points.</P>

I never understood why so many people marginalized Dilfer....the guy proved he was capable of guiding his team to a championship. That's not easy.</P>

Bart Starr never threw for2500 yards in a single season....and he's in the Hall, and Steve DeBerg is not.</P>

Dilfer in no way shape or form GUIDED the Ravens to a championship. The team was guided by that sick D. He never had to make plays to win the game. His specific and stated role was not to lose the game. Dilfer was a sub-par QB who near the end of his career became a mediocre QB through experience.</P>

Without a doubt, the Ravens won on defense. But I think it's fair to say Dilfer guided the team....he scoredthe points needed, avoided the big mistake, etc.</P>

A good QB understands what he has to do to win....by that measure, Dilfer was a good QB.</P>

giantsfan420

04-05-2012, 11:33 PM

theres one thing we agreed on back then, but werent we saying eli would be respected and finally valued as the best qb in the league earlier than week 17? i been saying it for years now...

but yes, great post burier agree with everything which kinda scares me

B&RWarrior

04-05-2012, 11:41 PM

Without a doubt, the Ravens won on defense.* But I think it's fair to say Dilfer guided the team....he scored*the points needed, avoided the big mistake, etc.</P>

A good QB understands what he has to do to win....by that measure, Dilfer was a good QB.</P>

Dilfer threw for 1500 yds that year 12TD passes and 11 INTs. There offense was a run first, run second, and run last offense. He handed the ball off all year that is how he GUIDED the offense. He was never a good QB. Career 70 passer rating. 113 TDs and 129 INT for his career- nothing in those numbers resembles goodness. He is an awesome analyst, but player- ugh not so much.

Bing Crosby

04-06-2012, 12:20 AM

Dilfer threw for 1500 yds that year 12TD passes and 11 INTs. There offense was a run first, run second, and run last offense. He handed the ball off all year that is how he GUIDED the offense. He was never a good QB. Career 70 passer rating. 113 TDs and 129 INT for his career- nothing in those numbers resembles goodness. He is an awesome analyst, but player- ugh not so much.

It's guys like you that make baseball fandom intolerable, and the reason I hate the sport. Dilfer did exactly what he was asked to do by his coach. He isn't a "great qb" in the sense that you stat guys who go crazy for guys like Romo and Brees may be, but he did his job.

What's a "good qb"? A good QB is a guy who can execute the game plan, that can operate the way he is suppose to in the system and who doesn't make costly mistakes. Yeah he's a game manager but that's what the Raven's wanted. Dilfer is the kind of QB you want if your team is spending the big bucks on defense. In a cap run league guys like Dilfer are the underrated stars. No he isn't a legend, no he isn't elite, but he was a good QB who worked in the system that he was in.

Dilfer get's pissed on way to much because he isn't Dan Marino. Well you know what Dilfer can always say? He did what was required of him in his system to win it all, something Marino never did in his team's system despite all his great stats. Don't get me wrong I respect Dan Marino, but damn you stat guys and your measurements of what makes players "good" or "bad" based on numbers. Football is a system sport it isn't baseball.

So tired of hearing the Dilfer isn't "good" or is "a joke". The man was the cog needed to keep the machine moving. Could other men have filled that need? Maybe, but other men didn't Dilfer did. In a cap related football era guys like Dilfer should be respected not laughed at.

JMFP2

04-06-2012, 12:47 AM

Without a doubt, the Ravens won on defense. But I think it's fair to say Dilfer guided the team....he scoredthe points needed, avoided the big mistake, etc.</P>

A good QB understands what he has to do to win....by that measure, Dilfer was a good QB.</P>

Dilfer threw for 1500 yds that year 12TD passes and 11 INTs. There offense was a run first, run second, and run last offense. He handed the ball off all year that is how he GUIDED the offense. He was never a good QB. Career 70 passer rating. 113 TDs and 129 INT for his career- nothing in those numbers resembles goodness. He is an awesome analyst, but player- ugh not so much.</P>

Every yard was a brilliant yard.</P>

Seriously....he did what he needed to do.</P>

Billick felt the same way you do....after cutting him loose, the Ravens never got back to the big game.Obviously, the defense didn't guide them back to the Super Bowl.</P>

Drez

04-06-2012, 12:57 AM

Without a doubt, the Ravens won on defense. But I think it's fair to say Dilfer guided the team....he scoredthe points needed, avoided the big mistake, etc.</p>

A good QB understands what he has to do to win....by that measure, Dilfer was a good QB.</p>

Dilfer threw for 1500 yds that year 12TD passes and 11 INTs. There offense was a run first, run second, and run last offense. He handed the ball off all year that is how he GUIDED the offense. He was never a good QB. Career 70 passer rating. 113 TDs and 129 INT for his career- nothing in those numbers resembles goodness. He is an awesome analyst, but player- ugh not so much.</p>

Every yard was a brilliant yard.</p>

Seriously....he did what he needed to do.</p>

Billick felt the same way you do....after cutting him loose, the Ravens never got back to the big game.Obviously, the defense didn't guide them back to the Super Bowl.</p>
Dilfer only started half the season that year, too, so of course his "season" stats are going to look like garage. Granted, I don't think they'd be much better if he started the whole season, but still. It isn't like he put those numbers up over 16 games.

SweetZombieJesus

04-06-2012, 08:22 AM

since we're disspelling previous myths based on our 1 Superbowl under Coughlin.</p>

We can now comfortabley say that we didn't win the last one soley because of Spags.</p>

The discounting of Coughlin's contribution to these championships was eliminated when he won his 2nd in 4 years.</p>Great point. TC has proved that it was his philosophy all along. Spags greatly helped, but none of us can say that we won <u>only</u> because of Spagnuolo.

Having said that, I definitely want him back here coaching for us in the future. After TC retires.

I'm not so sure about that. Spags worked magic in his 2 years here, but we also have to consider the disasters of Tim Lewis and Bill Sheridan (not to mention a HECK of a lot of frustration with Fewell being so Jekyl-and-Hyde and the way the team faltered with the dreaded read-and-react). How do you account for those low points if it's all on Tom?

The problems with Lewis, Sheridan, and early Fewell say Tom is very hands off. It looks like we have to give Fewell credit for adjusting his philosophy.

gumby742

04-06-2012, 09:20 AM

Dilfer threw for 1500 yds that year 12TD passes and 11 INTs. There offense was a run first, run second, and run last offense. He handed the ball off all year that is how he GUIDED the offense. He was never a good QB. Career 70 passer rating. 113 TDs and 129 INT for his career- nothing in those numbers resembles goodness. He is an awesome analyst, but player- ugh not so much.

It's guys like you that make baseball fandom intolerable, and the reason I hate the sport. Dilfer did exactly what he was asked to do by his coach. He isn't a "great qb" in the sense that you stat guys who go crazy for guys like Romo and Brees may be, but he did his job.

What's a "good qb"? A good QB is a guy who can execute the game plan, that can operate the way he is suppose to in the system and who doesn't make costly mistakes. Yeah he's a game manager but that's what the Raven's wanted. Dilfer is the kind of QB you want if your team is spending the big bucks on defense. In a cap run league guys like Dilfer are the underrated stars. No he isn't a legend, no he isn't elite, but he was a good QB who worked in the system that he was in.

Dilfer get's pissed on way to much because he isn't Dan Marino. Well you know what Dilfer can always say? He did what was required of him in his system to win it all, something Marino never did in his team's system despite all his great stats. Don't get me wrong I respect Dan Marino, but damn you stat guys and your measurements of what makes players "good" or "bad" based on numbers. Football is a system sport it isn't baseball.

So tired of hearing the Dilfer isn't "good" or is "a joke". The man was the cog needed to keep the machine moving. Could other men have filled that need? Maybe, but other men didn't Dilfer did. In a cap related football era guys like Dilfer should be respected not laughed at.

Great post.

Kruunch

04-06-2012, 09:27 AM

Says the poster who is most frequently wrong.

Black Pot says: "IT'S A BLACK KETTLE!"

burier

04-06-2012, 11:45 AM

theres one thing we agreed on back then, but werent we saying eli would be respected and finally valued as the best qb in the league earlier than week 17? i been saying it for years now...

but yes, great post burier agree with everything which kinda scares me

Don't be scared :)

I've always felt like Eli was underrated and underappreciated. After the the SB run in 07 I stated that Eli was a Top 10 QB.

In week 17 I said that Eli was the best Quarterback in the league.

I don't remember anyone else saying that at any point but if you did you get props.

In my case when I posted that Eli was the best QB in the league Lawl among others actually would point to that statement to discredit my opinion on an unrelated subject. That's how ridiculous people thought I was being for saying Eli was better than Prince Brady or Aaron Rogers.

But the best part isn't that I said Eli was the best got laughed at and now everyone agrees with me.

The best part is I actually predicted that people would agree with me only when enough analysts started saying what I had already been saying thus proving a large portion of the board to be complete lemmings who wait on ESPN or some other sports outlets/writers to tell them what to think.

Its actually quite sad when you think about it.

burier

04-06-2012, 11:49 AM

Says the poster who is most frequently wrong.

Black Pot says: "IT'S A BLACK KETTLE!"

Studies show that if you keep telling yourself what you know to be a lie you'll eventually believe it to be true despite knowing it is an absolute fabrication from a wet dream you had about me.

So keep at it. If you perservere and stay the course you'll eventually believe your own bull****.

We're all pullin for ya champ.

gumby742

04-06-2012, 11:56 AM

theres one thing we agreed on back then, but werent we saying eli would be respected and finally valued as the best qb in the league earlier than week 17? i been saying it for years now...

but yes, great post burier agree with everything which kinda scares me

Don't be scared :)

I've always felt like Eli was underrated and underappreciated. After the the SB run in 07 I stated that Eli was a Top 10 QB.

In week 17 I said that Eli was the best Quarterback in the league.

I don't remember anyone else saying that at any point but if you did you get props.

In my case when I posted that Eli was the best QB in the league Lawl among others actually would point to that statement to discredit my opinion on an unrelated subject. That's how ridiculous people thought I was being for saying Eli was better than Prince Brady or Aaron Rogers.

But the best part isn't that I said Eli was the best got laughed at and now everyone agrees with me.

The best part is I actually predicted that people would agree with me only when enough analysts started saying what I had already been saying thus proving a large portion of the board to be complete lemmings who wait on ESPN or some other sports outlets/writers to tell them what to think.

Its actually quite sad when you think about it.

You got laughed at because your timing was off. Had you said, Eli would EVENTUALLY be the best, then it would have been more plausible.

So actually, what you're trying to rub in everyone's face isn't what you said at all. No one said Eli would NEVER become a top QB. Merely, they just disagreed at that POINT IN TIME he wasn't.

burier

04-06-2012, 12:05 PM

theres one thing we agreed on back then, but werent we saying eli would be respected and finally valued as the best qb in the league earlier than week 17? i been saying it for years now...

but yes, great post burier agree with everything which kinda scares me

Don't be scared :)

I've always felt like Eli was underrated and underappreciated. After the the SB run in 07 I stated that Eli was a Top 10 QB.

In week 17 I said that Eli was the best Quarterback in the league.

I don't remember anyone else saying that at any point but if you did you get props.

In my case when I posted that Eli was the best QB in the league Lawl among others actually would point to that statement to discredit my opinion on an unrelated subject. That's how ridiculous people thought I was being for saying Eli was better than Prince Brady or Aaron Rogers.

But the best part isn't that I said Eli was the best got laughed at and now everyone agrees with me.

The best part is I actually predicted that people would agree with me only when enough analysts started saying what I had already been saying thus proving a large portion of the board to be complete lemmings who wait on ESPN or some other sports outlets/writers to tell them what to think.

Its actually quite sad when you think about it.

You got laughed at because your timing was off. Had you said, Eli would EVENTUALLY be the best, then it would have been more plausible.

So actually, what you're trying to rub in everyone's face isn't what you said at all. No one said Eli would NEVER become a top QB. Merely, they just disagreed at that POINT IN TIME he wasn't.

Oh so you're saying that in week 17 of this season Eli wasn't the best QB in the league but after the SB he became the best QB in the league. Is that right?

Come now Gumby...that's ridiculous.

If I had said Eli was the best QB in the league even in 2010 you might have a point...but week 17??? Not so much.

The fact of the matter is I made a statement based on what I actually saw with my own two eyes while everyone else makes statements based on what other people see.

Kruunch

04-06-2012, 12:41 PM

Says the poster who is most frequently wrong.

Black Pot says: "IT'S A BLACK KETTLE!"

Studies show that if you keep telling yourself what you know to be a lie you'll eventually believe it to be true despite knowing it is an absolute fabrication from a wet dream you had about me.

So keep at it. If you perservere and stay the course you'll eventually believe your own bull****.

We're all pullin for ya champ.

You're right ... it's not you.

It's everyone else.

burier

04-06-2012, 01:03 PM

Says the poster who is most frequently wrong.

Black Pot says: "IT'S A BLACK KETTLE!"

Studies show that if you keep telling yourself what you know to be a lie you'll eventually believe it to be true despite knowing it is an absolute fabrication from a wet dream you had about me.

So keep at it. If you perservere and stay the course you'll eventually believe your own bull****.

We're all pullin for ya champ.

You're right ... it's not you.

It's everyone else.

I'm really concerned about your mental health. Who is this "everyone else" you speak of? Are you referring to the voices in your head?

gumby742

04-06-2012, 02:11 PM

theres one thing we agreed on back then, but werent we saying eli would be respected and finally valued as the best qb in the league earlier than week 17? i been saying it for years now...

but yes, great post burier agree with everything which kinda scares me

Don't be scared :)

I've always felt like Eli was underrated and underappreciated. After the the SB run in 07 I stated that Eli was a Top 10 QB.

In week 17 I said that Eli was the best Quarterback in the league.

I don't remember anyone else saying that at any point but if you did you get props.

In my case when I posted that Eli was the best QB in the league Lawl among others actually would point to that statement to discredit my opinion on an unrelated subject. That's how ridiculous people thought I was being for saying Eli was better than Prince Brady or Aaron Rogers.

But the best part isn't that I said Eli was the best got laughed at and now everyone agrees with me.

The best part is I actually predicted that people would agree with me only when enough analysts started saying what I had already been saying thus proving a large portion of the board to be complete lemmings who wait on ESPN or some other sports outlets/writers to tell them what to think.

Its actually quite sad when you think about it.

You got laughed at because your timing was off. Had you said, Eli would EVENTUALLY be the best, then it would have been more plausible.

So actually, what you're trying to rub in everyone's face isn't what you said at all. No one said Eli would NEVER become a top QB. Merely, they just disagreed at that POINT IN TIME he wasn't.

Oh so you're saying that in week 17 of this season Eli wasn't the best QB in the league but after the SB he became the best QB in the league. Is that right?

Come now Gumby...that's ridiculous.

If I had said Eli was the best QB in the league even in 2010 you might have a point...but week 17??? Not so much.

The fact of the matter is I made a statement based on what I actually saw with my own two eyes while everyone else makes statements based on what other people see.

Well, I'm not going to go into what I think. But, if people disagreed with you then, there had to have been a reason why. And it only make sense that afterwards, with his playoff victories and his stellar play, his doubters became believers.

You really think that people from this message board just jumped on the Eli skeptic bandwagon without seeing for themselves? Or does it make more sense that they just saw things differently then you did. I think the latter makes more sense no?

Edit: And I'm not saying most people think Eli is the best in the league either. But, I'm pretty sure most of them think that Eli is top 5 now. But either way, whether or not you think Eli is top 5 of the absolute best, neither matter because both sides have a case.

burier

04-06-2012, 02:32 PM

theres one thing we agreed on back then, but werent we saying eli would be respected and finally valued as the best qb in the league earlier than week 17? i been saying it for years now...

but yes, great post burier agree with everything which kinda scares me

Don't be scared :)

I've always felt like Eli was underrated and underappreciated. After the the SB run in 07 I stated that Eli was a Top 10 QB.

In week 17 I said that Eli was the best Quarterback in the league.

I don't remember anyone else saying that at any point but if you did you get props.

In my case when I posted that Eli was the best QB in the league Lawl among others actually would point to that statement to discredit my opinion on an unrelated subject. That's how ridiculous people thought I was being for saying Eli was better than Prince Brady or Aaron Rogers.

But the best part isn't that I said Eli was the best got laughed at and now everyone agrees with me.

The best part is I actually predicted that people would agree with me only when enough analysts started saying what I had already been saying thus proving a large portion of the board to be complete lemmings who wait on ESPN or some other sports outlets/writers to tell them what to think.

Its actually quite sad when you think about it.

You got laughed at because your timing was off. Had you said, Eli would EVENTUALLY be the best, then it would have been more plausible.

So actually, what you're trying to rub in everyone's face isn't what you said at all. No one said Eli would NEVER become a top QB. Merely, they just disagreed at that POINT IN TIME he wasn't.

Oh so you're saying that in week 17 of this season Eli wasn't the best QB in the league but after the SB he became the best QB in the league. Is that right?

Come now Gumby...that's ridiculous.

If I had said Eli was the best QB in the league even in 2010 you might have a point...but week 17??? Not so much.

The fact of the matter is I made a statement based on what I actually saw with my own two eyes while everyone else makes statements based on what other people see.

Well, I'm not going to go into what I think. But, if people disagreed with you then, there had to have been a reason why. And it only make sense that afterwards, with his playoff victories and his stellar play, his doubters became believers.

You really think that people from this message board just jumped on the Eli skeptic bandwagon without seeing for themselves? Or does it make more sense that they just saw things differently then you did. I think the latter makes more sense no?

Edit: And I'm not saying most people think Eli is the best in the league either. But, I'm pretty sure most of them think that Eli is top 5 now. But either way, whether or not you think Eli is top 5 of the absolute best, neither matter because both sides have a case.

They saw things differently than I did sure. No argument there.

I'm here to point out that the way I saw things was correct and the way they saw things was incorrect.

Or I knew what the hell I was talking about...and they didn't.

Make whatever excuses you want but it is what it is.

And again I also predicted that once the people with the microphones started saying Eli was the best that the lemmings would follow. And oh look. Thats exactly whats happening and we haven't even started yet. Wait until next season.

But maybe its a coincidence.

So Im also here to point out that if "you" wouldn't just follow the crowd and make your own assessment on things you might be wrong less often.

gumby742

04-06-2012, 02:54 PM

You have cause and effect all wrong.

You as of that day said Eli was the best. People disagreed with you AT THAT TIME. People NEVER disputed that Eli could potentially be the best at some point in the future - which is exactly what you are saying now. So no one is correct or incorrect.

Once the microphones started talking the people would also probably follow. Why? It NOT because of blind faith. But because all of us are watching exactly the same game. Thus they probably saw what the media saw. And I'm talking about giant fans who watch the giants week in and week out. Not just on Espn.

Edit: let me give you an example of what you're doing. You watch some cowboy games and think to y romo is a choker. The media also watches that same set of games and comes to the same conclusion. So does that make you a lemming?

JPP

04-06-2012, 03:10 PM

The Dilfer argument is almost as absurd as the "it was just the defense" argument.* I STILL am seeing people posting about how Eli is not a top tier QB but that Ryan and Romo are.* The absurdity and sheepish mentality of Americans never ceases to amaze me.* Suffice is to say that I would take Eli over any QB and that is all that matters.* He is his best when it counts.

Yeah and while our defense was good it was definitely no Ravens or Bucs defense from the early 2000's who literally scored enough points to win without a QB. That is why that comparison was so off, plus the same things could have been said about Roethlisburger's 1st Superbowl but nobody did.does.

Kruunch

04-06-2012, 03:20 PM

Says the poster who is most frequently wrong.

Black Pot says: "IT'S A BLACK KETTLE!"

Studies show that if you keep telling yourself what you know to be a lie you'll eventually believe it to be true despite knowing it is an absolute fabrication from a wet dream you had about me.

So keep at it. If you perservere and stay the course you'll eventually believe your own bull****.

We're all pullin for ya champ.

You're right ... it's not you.

It's everyone else.

I'm really concerned about your mental health. Who is this "everyone else" you speak of? Are you referring to the voices in your head?

Everyone on the boards who understand you're one of the worst posters here.

You know ... most everyone who replies to your threads [b]

burier

04-06-2012, 03:25 PM

Says the poster who is most frequently wrong.

Black Pot says: "IT'S A BLACK KETTLE!"

Studies show that if you keep telling yourself what you know to be a lie you'll eventually believe it to be true despite knowing it is an absolute fabrication from a wet dream you had about me.

So keep at it. If you perservere and stay the course you'll eventually believe your own bull****.

We're all pullin for ya champ.

You're right ... it's not you.

It's everyone else.

I'm really concerned about your mental health. Who is this "everyone else" you speak of? Are you referring to the voices in your head?

Everyone on the boards who understand you're one of the worst posters here.

You know ... most everyone who replies to your threads [b]

Ok Krunch.

So now what?

If you don't like what I post you don't have to read it. So what's the problem?

Now for the 500th time....Get off of my ****.

GameTime

04-06-2012, 03:33 PM

theres one thing we agreed on back then, but werent we saying eli would be respected and finally valued as the best qb in the league earlier than week 17?<FONT color=#000000>I</FONT> been saying it for years now... but yes, great post burier agree with everything which kinda scares me Don't be scared :) <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I've</FONT> always felt like Eli was underrated and underappreciated. After the the SB run in 07 <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> stated that Eli was a Top 10 QB. In week 17 <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> said that Eli was the best Quarterback in the league. <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I </FONT>don't remember anyone else saying that at any point but if you did you get props. In <FONT color=#000080 size=4>my</FONT> case when <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> posted that Eli was the best QB in the league Lawl among others actually would point to that statement to discredit <FONT color=#000080 size=4>my</FONT> opinion on an unrelated subject. That's how ridiculous people thought <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> was being for saying Eli was better than Prince Brady or Aaron Rogers. But the best part isn't that <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> said Eli was the best got laughed at and now everyone agrees with <FONT color=#000080 size=4>me</FONT>. The best part is <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> actually predicted that people would agree with <FONT color=#000080 size=4>me</FONT> only when enough analysts started saying what <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> had already been saying thus proving a large portion of the board to be complete lemmings who wait on ESPN or some other sports outlets/writers to tell them what to think. Its actually quite sad when you think about it.</P>

wow....this is like a Tiki interview...lol</P>

Dont hurt your arm patting youself on the back. </P>

[;)]</P>

gumby742

04-06-2012, 03:35 PM

theres one thing we agreed on back then, but werent we saying eli would be respected and finally valued as the best qb in the league earlier than week 17? i been saying it for years now...

but yes, great post burier agree with everything which kinda scares me

Don't be scared :)

I've always felt like Eli was underrated and underappreciated. After the the SB run in 07 I stated that Eli was a Top 10 QB.

In week 17 I said that Eli was the best Quarterback in the league.

I don't remember anyone else saying that at any point but if you did you get props.

In my case when I posted that Eli was the best QB in the league Lawl among others actually would point to that statement to discredit my opinion on an unrelated subject. That's how ridiculous people thought I was being for saying Eli was better than Prince Brady or Aaron Rogers.

But the best part isn't that I said Eli was the best got laughed at and now everyone agrees with me.

The best part is I actually predicted that people would agree with me only when enough analysts started saying what I had already been saying thus proving a large portion of the board to be complete lemmings who wait on ESPN or some other sports outlets/writers to tell them what to think.

Its actually quite sad when you think about it.

You got laughed at because your timing was off. Had you said, Eli would EVENTUALLY be the best, then it would have been more plausible.

So actually, what you're trying to rub in everyone's face isn't what you said at all. No one said Eli would NEVER become a top QB. Merely, they just disagreed at that POINT IN TIME he wasn't.

Oh so you're saying that in week 17 of this season Eli wasn't the best QB in the league but after the SB he became the best QB in the league. Is that right?

Come now Gumby...that's ridiculous.

If I had said Eli was the best QB in the league even in 2010 you might have a point...but week 17??? Not so much.

The fact of the matter is I made a statement based on what I actually saw with my own two eyes while everyone else makes statements based on what other people see.

Well, I'm not going to go into what I think. But, if people disagreed with you then, there had to have been a reason why. And it only make sense that afterwards, with his playoff victories and his stellar play, his doubters became believers.

You really think that people from this message board just jumped on the Eli skeptic bandwagon without seeing for themselves? Or does it make more sense that they just saw things differently then you did. I think the latter makes more sense no?

Edit: And I'm not saying most people think Eli is the best in the league either. But, I'm pretty sure most of them think that Eli is top 5 now. But either way, whether or not you think Eli is top 5 of the absolute best, neither matter because both sides have a case.

They saw things differently than I did sure. No argument there.

I'm here to point out that the way I saw things was correct and the way they saw things was incorrect.

Or I knew what the hell I was talking about...and they didn't.

Make whatever excuses you want but it is what it is.

And again I also predicted that once the people with the microphones started saying Eli was the best that the lemmings would follow. And oh look. Thats exactly whats happening and we haven't even started yet. Wait until next season.

But maybe its a coincidence.

So Im also here to point out that if "you" wouldn't just follow the crowd and make your own assessment on things you might be wrong less often.

Quote never happened. The ipad sucks.

You have cause and effect all wrong.

You as of that day said Eli was the best. People disagreed with you AT THAT TIME. People NEVER disputed that Eli could potentially be the best at some point in the future - which is exactly what you are saying now. So no one is correct or incorrect.

Once the microphones started talking the people would also probably follow. Why? It NOT because of blind faith. But because all of us are watching exactly the same game. Thus they probably saw what the media saw. And I'm talking about giant fans who watch the giants week in and week out. Not just on Espn.

Edit: let me give you an example of what you're doing. You watch some cowboy games and think to y romo is a choker. The media also watches that same set of games and comes to the same conclusion. So does that make you a lemming?

Kruunch

04-06-2012, 03:37 PM

theres one thing we agreed on back then, but werent we saying eli would be respected and finally valued as the best qb in the league earlier than week 17?*<FONT color=#000000>I</FONT> been saying it for years now... but yes, great post burier agree with everything which kinda scares me Don't be scared :) <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I've</FONT> always felt like Eli was underrated and underappreciated. After the the SB run in 07 <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> stated that Eli was a Top 10 QB. In week 17 <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> said that Eli was the best Quarterback in the league. <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I </FONT>don't remember anyone else saying that at any point but if you did you get props. In <FONT color=#000080 size=4>my</FONT> case when <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> posted that Eli was the best QB in the league Lawl among others actually would point to that statement to discredit <FONT color=#000080 size=4>my</FONT> opinion on an unrelated subject. That's how ridiculous people thought <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> was being for saying Eli was better than Prince Brady or Aaron Rogers. But the best part isn't that <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> said Eli was the best got laughed at and now everyone agrees with <FONT color=#000080 size=4>me</FONT>. The best part is <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> actually predicted that people would agree with <FONT color=#000080 size=4>me</FONT> only when enough analysts started saying what <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> had already been saying thus proving a large portion of the board to be complete lemmings who wait on ESPN or some other sports outlets/writers to tell them what to think. Its actually quite sad when you think about it.</P>

wow....this is like a Tiki interview...lol</P>

Dont hurt your arm patting youself on the back. </P>

[;)]</P>

Srsly.

Kruunch

04-06-2012, 03:39 PM

Says the poster who is most frequently wrong.

Black Pot says: "IT'S A BLACK KETTLE!"

Studies show that if you keep telling yourself what you know to be a lie you'll eventually believe it to be true despite knowing it is an absolute fabrication from a wet dream you had about me.

So keep at it. If you perservere and stay the course you'll eventually believe your own bull****.

We're all pullin for ya champ.

You're right ... it's not you.

It's everyone else.

I'm really concerned about your mental health. Who is this "everyone else" you speak of? Are you referring to the voices in your head?

Everyone on the boards who understand you're one of the worst posters here.

You know ... most everyone who replies to your threads [b]

Ok Krunch.

So now what?

If you don't like what I post you don't have to read it. So what's the problem?

Now for the 500th time....Get off of my ****.

Here's a life lesson for you kid ... try treating people with respect, and you might get some in return.

Until then ... expect what you dish out.

P.S. - If YOU don't like the replies you're getting ... maybe it's what you're posting. Shocking, I know.

GameTime

04-06-2012, 03:42 PM

theres one thing we agreed on back then, but werent we saying eli would be respected and finally valued as the best qb in the league earlier than week 17?<FONT color=#000000>I</FONT> been saying it for years now... but yes, great post burier agree with everything which kinda scares me Don't be scared :) <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I've</FONT> always felt like Eli was underrated and underappreciated. After the the SB run in 07 <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> stated that Eli was a Top 10 QB. In week 17 <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> said that Eli was the best Quarterback in the league. <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I </FONT>don't remember anyone else saying that at any point but if you did you get props. In <FONT color=#000080 size=4>my</FONT> case when <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> posted that Eli was the best QB in the league Lawl among others actually would point to that statement to discredit <FONT color=#000080 size=4>my</FONT> opinion on an unrelated subject. That's how ridiculous people thought <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> was being for saying Eli was better than Prince Brady or Aaron Rogers. But the best part isn't that <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> said Eli was the best got laughed at and now everyone agrees with <FONT color=#000080 size=4>me</FONT>. The best part is <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> actually predicted that people would agree with <FONT color=#000080 size=4>me</FONT> only when enough analysts started saying what <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> had already been saying thus proving a large portion of the board to be complete lemmings who wait on ESPN or some other sports outlets/writers to tell them what to think. Its actually quite sad when you think about it.</P>

wow....this is like a Tiki interview...lol</P>

Dont hurt your arm patting youself on the back. </P>

[;)]</P>

Srsly.</P>

not taking sides mind you in this arguement just busting balls when I can....[B]</P>

Kruunch

04-06-2012, 03:55 PM

theres one thing we agreed on back then, but werent we saying eli would be respected and finally valued as the best qb in the league earlier than week 17?*<FONT color=#000000>I</FONT> been saying it for years now... but yes, great post burier agree with everything which kinda scares me Don't be scared :) <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I've</FONT> always felt like Eli was underrated and underappreciated. After the the SB run in 07 <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> stated that Eli was a Top 10 QB. In week 17 <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> said that Eli was the best Quarterback in the league. <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I </FONT>don't remember anyone else saying that at any point but if you did you get props. In <FONT color=#000080 size=4>my</FONT> case when <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> posted that Eli was the best QB in the league Lawl among others actually would point to that statement to discredit <FONT color=#000080 size=4>my</FONT> opinion on an unrelated subject. That's how ridiculous people thought <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> was being for saying Eli was better than Prince Brady or Aaron Rogers. But the best part isn't that <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> said Eli was the best got laughed at and now everyone agrees with <FONT color=#000080 size=4>me</FONT>. The best part is <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> actually predicted that people would agree with <FONT color=#000080 size=4>me</FONT> only when enough analysts started saying what <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> had already been saying thus proving a large portion of the board to be complete lemmings who wait on ESPN or some other sports outlets/writers to tell them what to think. Its actually quite sad when you think about it.</P>

wow....this is like a Tiki interview...lol</P>

Dont hurt your arm patting youself on the back. </P>

[;)]</P>

Srsly.</P>

not taking sides mind you in this arguement just busting balls when I can....[B]</P>

Hey what you do with his balls is totally not my business. http://boards.giants.com/emoticons/emotion-5.gif

burier

04-06-2012, 04:30 PM

You have cause and effect all wrong.

You as of that day said Eli was the best. People disagreed with you AT THAT TIME. People NEVER disputed that Eli could potentially be the best at some point in the future - which is exactly what you are saying now. So no one is correct or incorrect.

Once the microphones started talking the people would also probably follow. Why? It NOT because of blind faith. But because all of us are watching exactly the same game. Thus they probably saw what the media saw. And I'm talking about giant fans who watch the giants week in and week out. Not just on Espn.

Edit: let me give you an example of what you're doing. You watch some cowboy games and think to y romo is a choker. The media also watches that same set of games and comes to the same conclusion. So does that make you a lemming?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

The only thing I gather from you is that you believe it is impossible to give incorrect football analysis.

We disagree on that point.

In fact if I thought I could just back out of everything I ever said I wouldn't bother saying anything to begin with.

As far as your example....Bottom line: If you allow the media to form your opinion you're a lemming. No way around it. That's what it is.

I say Eli is #1

I get mocked

5 weeks later Eli wins SB MVP

Silence as weeks pass (Is Eli top 5? Trending question.)

Sports writer says what I already said THREE MONTHS PRIOR everyone agrees with sports writer.

If you can't see how ridiculous people on this board look for that chain of events I really don't know what to tell you.

burier

04-06-2012, 04:45 PM

theres one thing we agreed on back then, but werent we saying eli would be respected and finally valued as the best qb in the league earlier than week 17?*<FONT color=#000000>I</FONT> been saying it for years now... but yes, great post burier agree with everything which kinda scares me Don't be scared :) <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I've</FONT> always felt like Eli was underrated and underappreciated. After the the SB run in 07 <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> stated that Eli was a Top 10 QB. In week 17 <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> said that Eli was the best Quarterback in the league. <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I </FONT>don't remember anyone else saying that at any point but if you did you get props. In <FONT color=#000080 size=4>my</FONT> case when <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> posted that Eli was the best QB in the league Lawl among others actually would point to that statement to discredit <FONT color=#000080 size=4>my</FONT> opinion on an unrelated subject. That's how ridiculous people thought <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> was being for saying Eli was better than Prince Brady or Aaron Rogers. But the best part isn't that <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> said Eli was the best got laughed at and now everyone agrees with <FONT color=#000080 size=4>me</FONT>. The best part is <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> actually predicted that people would agree with <FONT color=#000080 size=4>me</FONT> only when enough analysts started saying what <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> had already been saying thus proving a large portion of the board to be complete lemmings who wait on ESPN or some other sports outlets/writers to tell them what to think. Its actually quite sad when you think about it.</P>

wow....this is like a Tiki interview...lol</P>

Dont hurt your arm patting youself on the back. </P>

[;)]</P>

To be perfectly honest with you...I'll try my best not to hurt myself.

Of course I wouldn't have to pat myself on the back if some people on this message board would just man up and admit when they're wrong.

"This guy just said ELi is the best QB in the league. know who you're arguing with" I believe was Lawls quote.

Look at Krunch. He says I'm a terrible poster but he makes sure to read every one of my posts. He doesn't have a problem being negative. He actually goes out of his way to be negative.

But when it comes time to eat a little crow. Everyone gets real quiet and they act like they never said anything.

(And I've eaten my crow when I've needed to to. Called Corey Webster a bust after his second season. And you might remember the infamous "Eli clears up the Mario INT" thread)

Krunch especially since everytime we debate he's made to look like a complete clown.

So I'll pat myself on the back when I'm right since it seems no one else here is man enough to do it for me.

JPizzack

04-06-2012, 07:01 PM

The only problem with the whole Trent Dilfer argument is that Dilfer is really the only person of discussion in that "debate". In 2007, the Giants clearly had a stifling defense, something to be afraid of. Just like Dilfer's Balt. team back then.
The difference is that in 07, Eli played great, mistake free football for 4 playoff games! I wouldnt say it was an elite performance or anything, but honestly, what more could you ask for from a 3rd year player?He was a good QB in that run! I can't speak for Dilfer performance being anything memorable, because as everyone knows, that defense was absolutely RIDICULOUS. Nobody really even cared about Dilfer.....it was Ravens D vs. the world.....aaaaaand Raven's Defense clearly won &gt;.&lt;
I was unaware people were still making that comparison or having this converastion this year. Eli was absolutely dominant this winter.

Btw, I'm not one for infighting on the boards(unless it's Morehead vs. JPizzack of course) but can't we all agree that we're glad we have an ELIte QB, and forget what people are still saying, as if it even matters anymore??? lol

B&RWarrior

04-06-2012, 08:05 PM

Dilfer threw for 1500 yds that year 12TD passes and 11 INTs. There offense was a run first, run second, and run last offense. He handed the ball off all year that is how he GUIDED the offense. He was never a good QB. Career 70 passer rating. 113 TDs and 129 INT for his career- nothing in those numbers resembles goodness. He is an awesome analyst, but player- ugh not so much.

It's guys like you that make baseball fandom intolerable, and the reason I hate the sport. Dilfer did exactly what he was asked to do by his coach. He isn't a "great qb" in the sense that you stat guys who go crazy for guys like Romo and Brees may be, but he did his job.

What's a "good qb"? A good QB is a guy who can execute the game plan, that can operate the way he is suppose to in the system and who doesn't make costly mistakes. Yeah he's a game manager but that's what the Raven's wanted. Dilfer is the kind of QB you want if your team is spending the big bucks on defense. In a cap run league guys like Dilfer are the underrated stars. No he isn't a legend, no he isn't elite, but he was a good QB who worked in the system that he was in.

Dilfer get's pissed on way to much because he isn't Dan Marino. Well you know what Dilfer can always say? He did what was required of him in his system to win it all, something Marino never did in his team's system despite all his great stats. Don't get me wrong I respect Dan Marino, but damn you stat guys and your measurements of what makes players "good" or "bad" based on numbers. Football is a system sport it isn't baseball.

So tired of hearing the Dilfer isn't "good" or is "a joke". The man was the cog needed to keep the machine moving. Could other men have filled that need? Maybe, but other men didn't Dilfer did. In a cap related football era guys like Dilfer should be respected not laughed at.

I can understand your perspective but it's way off basis. I actually followed Dilfer from when he was drafted by Tampa. So , I'm judging Dilfer- maybe unfairly- based on what scouts thought his potential was when he was drafted. He was awful in Tampa. Forget the numbers, when you watched it was clear he was a sub-par QB.

Dilfer was a mediocre QB even his SB year and if you didn't see that then you don't know anything about football. Eli is a good QB on the verge of greatness. Dan Marino was a great QB. Take note, there are 3 different levels of performance in these 3 QBs.

SB rings are not signs of greatness. Warren Moon, Dan Marino, Bill Kelly, Barry Sanders, Eric ****erson have no SB rings they were all great players. Aaron Ross has 2 SB rings does that make him a great corner? Don't answer that.

FYI the only reason Dilfer was the starter was because Tony friggin' Banks got injured. If I'm going to label you a "good" QB you have to be able to usurp T. Banks as QB w/o injury b/c Banks was BRUTAL!

I agree he was asked to be a "game manager" in Baltimore, but that is b/c they didn't think he had the ability to be a play maker. Eli "good", Dilfer not "good".

Dilfer showed signs of competency in Seattle. He was never going to be a play maker but he was serviceable. His STATS still weren't impressive but he was a much improved QB in Seattle. Average players can win SB's and Trent Dilfer was one of them.

gumby742

04-06-2012, 09:26 PM

You have cause and effect all wrong.

You as of that day said Eli was the best. People disagreed with you AT THAT TIME. People NEVER disputed that Eli could potentially be the best at some point in the future - which is exactly what you are saying now. So no one is correct or incorrect.

Once the microphones started talking the people would also probably follow. Why? It NOT because of blind faith. But because all of us are watching exactly the same game. Thus they probably saw what the media saw. And I'm talking about giant fans who watch the giants week in and week out. Not just on Espn.

Edit: let me give you an example of what you're doing. You watch some cowboy games and think to y romo is a choker. The media also watches that same set of games and comes to the same conclusion. So does that make you a lemming?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

The only thing I gather from you is that you believe it is impossible to give incorrect football analysis.

We disagree on that point.

In fact if I thought I could just back out of everything I ever said I wouldn't bother saying anything to begin with.

As far as your example....Bottom line: If you allow the media to form your opinion you're a lemming. No way around it. That's what it is.

I say Eli is #1

I get mocked

5 weeks later Eli wins SB MVP

Silence as weeks pass (Is Eli top 5? Trending question.)

Sports writer says what I already said THREE MONTHS PRIOR everyone agrees with sports writer.

If you can't see how ridiculous people on this board look for that chain of events I really don't know what to tell you.

Among us Giant fans, you have to be kidding yourself if you think any one of us formed our opinion of Eli based off of what the media said. It boggles my mind how you can possibly even think that. If you want to say that about other fans outside the NFC East it makes more sense. They probably only know what the media and Sportscenter show. But to us Giant fans that watch week in a week out?!

Has it ever occurred to you that people just come up with the same opinion while watching the same game? I know that you're hard core Eli, but dude. Give me a break.

Let me give you something to think about. Saying Eli was the best QB in the NFL in week 17 is a different situation then saying Eli is the best QB CURRENTLY/today. They are 2 completely different statements. If you understand what I just said, then you'll understand that the "i told you so game" that you're playing now, is targeting nobody.

No one ever said that Eli would NEVER become the best QB. Just that he wasn't the best 6 months ago.

As for calling me a lemming, let me tell you a few things. When Eli signed that big contract and most the board and the media were up in arms, I was happy with it. When Plaxico shot himself everyone wanted us to sign Edwards, I so no. When people were up in arms about Reese not resigning Smith, Boss, and cutting half our o-line, I said it was a good football move. I was one of the few that stood by Reese and almost every move. Fewell is apparently now a really good co-ordinator. I'm not buying. Cruz is a superstar. I need one more year. JPP is a superstar now also. I still want to see more before I proclaim him to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Oh and our vaunted front 4 that the media loves to rave about? Overrated. I've probably gone against the grain more then you have.

BeatYale

04-06-2012, 09:54 PM

Even without a second ring, the Dilfer comparison was completely false. Eli dropped back and went through his progressions and rarely checked down. He was playing the QB position to win games, while Dilfer's job was to not lose games in that 1 read offense that relied heavily on the running game and arguably the best defense in history.

B&RWarrior

04-06-2012, 10:34 PM

Even without a second ring, the Dilfer comparison was completely false. Eli dropped back and went through his progressions and rarely checked down. He was playing the QB position to win games, while Dilfer's job was to not lose games in that 1 read offense that relied heavily on the running game and arguably the best defense in history.

+1

yoeddy

04-06-2012, 10:40 PM

The only problem with the whole Trent Dilfer argument is that Dilfer is really the only person of discussion in that "debate". In 2007, the Giants clearly had a stifling defense, something to be afraid of. Just like Dilfer's Balt. team back then.
The difference is that in 07, Eli played great, mistake free football for 4 playoff games! I wouldnt say it was an elite performance or anything, but honestly, what more could you ask for from a 3rd year player?*He was a good QB in that run! I can't speak for Dilfer performance being anything memorable, because as everyone knows, that defense was absolutely RIDICULOUS. Nobody really even cared about Dilfer.....it was Ravens D vs. the world.....aaaaaand Raven's Defense clearly won >.<
I was unaware people were still making that comparison or having this converastion this year. Eli was absolutely dominant this winter.

Btw, I'm not one for infighting on the boards(unless it's Morehead vs. JPizzack of course) but can't we all agree that we're glad we have an ELIte QB, and forget what people are still saying, as if it even matters anymore??? lol

I don't remember the 2007 defense to be "clearly a stifling defense"...it was a defense that gave up 80 points in the first two games of the season, 41 points to the Vikings and blew a big lead in the season finale against the Patriots to the tune of 38 points. Nowhere near the quality of Dilfer's Baltimore defense, which was arguably a top 3 defense in the history of the NFL.

GameTime

04-07-2012, 12:03 AM

theres one thing we agreed on back then, but werent we saying eli would be respected and finally valued as the best qb in the league earlier than week 17?<FONT color=#000000>I</FONT> been saying it for years now... but yes, great post burier agree with everything which kinda scares me Don't be scared :) <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I've</FONT> always felt like Eli was underrated and underappreciated. After the the SB run in 07 <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> stated that Eli was a Top 10 QB. In week 17 <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> said that Eli was the best Quarterback in the league. <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I </FONT>don't remember anyone else saying that at any point but if you did you get props. In <FONT color=#000080 size=4>my</FONT> case when <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> posted that Eli was the best QB in the league Lawl among others actually would point to that statement to discredit <FONT color=#000080 size=4>my</FONT> opinion on an unrelated subject. That's how ridiculous people thought <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> was being for saying Eli was better than Prince Brady or Aaron Rogers. But the best part isn't that <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> said Eli was the best got laughed at and now everyone agrees with <FONT color=#000080 size=4>me</FONT>. The best part is <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> actually predicted that people would agree with <FONT color=#000080 size=4>me</FONT> only when enough analysts started saying what <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> had already been saying thus proving a large portion of the board to be complete lemmings who wait on ESPN or some other sports outlets/writers to tell them what to think. Its actually quite sad when you think about it.</P>

wow....this is like a Tiki interview...lol</P>

Dont hurt your arm patting youself on the back. </P>

[;)]</P>

To be perfectly honest with you...I'll try my best not to hurt myself. Of course I wouldn't have to pat myself on the back if some people on this message board would just man up and admit when they're wrong. Everyone is happy to assasinate someone else's character, "you're an idiot, you're a moron" "This guy just said ELi is the best QB in the league. know who you're arguing with" I believe was Lawls quote. Look at Krunch. He says I'm a terrible poster but he makes sure to read every one of my posts. He doesn't have a problem being negative. He actually goes out of his way to be negative. But when it comes time to eat a little crow. Everyone gets real quiet and they act like they never said anything. (And I've eaten my crow when I've needed to to. Called Corey Webster a bust after his second season. And you might remember the infamous "Eli clears up the Mario INT" thread) Krunch especially since everytime we debate he's made to look like a complete clown. So I'll pat myself on the back when I'm right since it seems no one else here is man enough to do it for me.</P>

I enjoy a good discussion as much as any one but I dont take this stuff on these boards that seriously. I mean....why do care so much if these people on here think you are right or wrong. You have your opion like we all do. </P>

I do remember the thread about Eli and MM int. What I remember most about it was too much arguing over nothing really....</P>

</P>

burier

04-07-2012, 12:44 PM

You have cause and effect all wrong.

You as of that day said Eli was the best. People disagreed with you AT THAT TIME. People NEVER disputed that Eli could potentially be the best at some point in the future - which is exactly what you are saying now. So no one is correct or incorrect.

Once the microphones started talking the people would also probably follow. Why? It NOT because of blind faith. But because all of us are watching exactly the same game. Thus they probably saw what the media saw. And I'm talking about giant fans who watch the giants week in and week out. Not just on Espn.

Edit: let me give you an example of what you're doing. You watch some cowboy games and think to y romo is a choker. The media also watches that same set of games and comes to the same conclusion. So does that make you a lemming?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

The only thing I gather from you is that you believe it is impossible to give incorrect football analysis.

We disagree on that point.

In fact if I thought I could just back out of everything I ever said I wouldn't bother saying anything to begin with.

As far as your example....Bottom line: If you allow the media to form your opinion you're a lemming. No way around it. That's what it is.

I say Eli is #1

I get mocked

5 weeks later Eli wins SB MVP

Silence as weeks pass (Is Eli top 5? Trending question.)

Sports writer says what I already said THREE MONTHS PRIOR everyone agrees with sports writer.

If you can't see how ridiculous people on this board look for that chain of events I really don't know what to tell you.

Among us Giant fans, you have to be kidding yourself if you think any one of us formed our opinion of Eli based off of what the media said. It boggles my mind how you can possibly even think that. If you want to say that about other fans outside the NFC East it makes more sense. They probably only know what the media and Sportscenter show. But to us Giant fans that watch week in a week out?!

Has it ever occurred to you that people just come up with the same opinion while watching the same game? I know that you're hard core Eli, but dude. Give me a break.

Let me give you something to think about. Saying Eli was the best QB in the NFL in week 17 is a different situation then saying Eli is the best QB CURRENTLY/today. They are 2 completely different statements. If you understand what I just said, then you'll understand that the "i told you so game" that you're playing now, is targeting nobody.

No one ever said that Eli would NEVER become the best QB. Just that he wasn't the best 6 months ago.

As for calling me a lemming, let me tell you a few things. When Eli signed that big contract and most the board and the media were up in arms, I was happy with it. When Plaxico shot himself everyone wanted us to sign Edwards, I so no. When people were up in arms about Reese not resigning Smith, Boss, and cutting half our o-line, I said it was a good football move. I was one of the few that stood by Reese and almost every move. Fewell is apparently now a really good co-ordinator. I'm not buying. Cruz is a superstar. I need one more year. JPP is a superstar now also. I still want to see more before I proclaim him to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Oh and our vaunted front 4 that the media loves to rave about? Overrated. I've probably gone against the grain more then you have.

Quickly let me address the lemming comment.

I don't mean to say that Giants fans rely completely on the media to tell them what to think about Eli but I do think the media has an alarming infuence on some of us and its scary.

You dont find it odd that the Media says something THEN the fans say the same thing damn near every time?

And let me add that even after the SB I didnt hear people saying Eli was the best...It took a media out let to say it first...what do you call that???

Who decided who the best QB is? Is it decided in a media room or on the field of play?

Are you suggesting that 4 games is what propelled Eli to the top of a montain he wasn't even on prior to the playoffs? The suggestion is laughable. If thats how it worked Eli would have been the reigning number 1 QB since 2008..Remember this was his second remarkable playoff run.

Now what Im saying is NO I don't see the difference between Eli week 17 and Eli currently.

Certainly not drastic enough a difference to go from ridicule to agreement.

And thats the point.

If I asked you to name the top 5 Basketball players all time and you said...Larry Bird. I may disagree...But I wouldn't laugh at you because I know Larry Bird is legitimately in the conversation.

When I said Eli was the best the response was...Im ridiculous becuase Eli isn't even in the conversation.

So no I don't the difference between saying Eli #1 week 17 and Eli #1 today (Considering football has been over for 2 months) and if there's a difference in Eli or any othe QB in that time period it couldn't possibly be enough to take Eli from not even being in the conversation to being one of the main components of the conversation.

And even if you don't want to take responsibility for being wrong on the issue...you should at least be willing to give props to me...because at the very least ive proven to be absolutely clairvoiant.

(If I say I was right...and leave the you were wrong part out...will that make you feel better?)

Bottom line is Eli has gotten so much bad pub while Brady, Breese and Rogers have gotten so much great pub that people were actually brainwashed and they couldnt believe there own eyes when for the entire season Eli outplayed every QB in the league with the exception of Rogers and then outclassed Rogers in the playoffs.

If you saw what I saw we would have agreed...that simple.

And if not...you should be thinking...Damn...What the hell does the Burier know that I don't? Why did I hear it from him first???

burier

04-07-2012, 01:07 PM

theres one thing we agreed on back then, but werent we saying eli would be respected and finally valued as the best qb in the league earlier than week 17?*<FONT color=#000000>I</FONT> been saying it for years now... but yes, great post burier agree with everything which kinda scares me Don't be scared :) <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I've</FONT> always felt like Eli was underrated and underappreciated. After the the SB run in 07 <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> stated that Eli was a Top 10 QB. In week 17 <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> said that Eli was the best Quarterback in the league. <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I </FONT>don't remember anyone else saying that at any point but if you did you get props. In <FONT color=#000080 size=4>my</FONT> case when <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> posted that Eli was the best QB in the league Lawl among others actually would point to that statement to discredit <FONT color=#000080 size=4>my</FONT> opinion on an unrelated subject. That's how ridiculous people thought <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> was being for saying Eli was better than Prince Brady or Aaron Rogers. But the best part isn't that <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> said Eli was the best got laughed at and now everyone agrees with <FONT color=#000080 size=4>me</FONT>. The best part is <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> actually predicted that people would agree with <FONT color=#000080 size=4>me</FONT> only when enough analysts started saying what <FONT color=#000080 size=4>I</FONT> had already been saying thus proving a large portion of the board to be complete lemmings who wait on ESPN or some other sports outlets/writers to tell them what to think. Its actually quite sad when you think about it.</P>

wow....this is like a Tiki interview...lol</P>

Dont hurt your arm patting youself on the back. </P>

[;)]</P>

To be perfectly honest with you...I'll try my best not to hurt myself. Of course I wouldn't have to pat myself on the back if some people on this message board would just man up and admit when they're wrong. Everyone is happy to assasinate someone else's character, "you're an idiot, you're a moron" "This guy just said ELi is the best QB in the league. know who you're arguing with" I believe was Lawls quote. Look at Krunch. He says I'm a terrible poster but he makes sure to read every one of my posts. He doesn't have a problem being negative. He actually goes out of his way to be negative. But when it comes time to eat a little crow. Everyone gets real quiet and they act like they never said anything. (And I've eaten my crow when I've needed to to. Called Corey Webster a bust after his second season. And you might remember the infamous "Eli clears up the Mario INT" thread) Krunch especially since everytime we debate he's made to look like a complete clown. So I'll pat myself on the back when I'm right since it seems no one else here is man enough to do it for me.</P>

I enjoy a good discussion as much as any one but I dont take this stuff on* these boards that seriously. I mean....why do care so much if these people on here think you are right or wrong. You have your opion like we all do. </P>

I do remember the thread about Eli and MM int. What I remember most about it was too much arguing over nothing really....</P>

*</P>

lol you read me wrong. I don't actually care. If I did care I would have stopped posting here years ago.

This is all fun for me. Its all about a laugh.

I probably don't go a day without getting called some sort of name on here. (Which is fine. I dish and take)

Which I find really funny because I'm not even a real person. I'm just a bunch of sentences put together as far as anyone knows. I could be a group of different people.

Of course I am just 1 guy who actually has some pretty significant sports credentials so when I get called a fool I laugh to myself because...they don't actullay know who they're talking to.

I've said it before but Im not worked up...even if my posts read like I am. Its all just a time killer for me. If I can offer some perspective then great.

gmen0820

04-07-2012, 01:10 PM

If I asked you to name the top 5 Basketball players all time and you said...Larry Bird. I may disagree...But I wouldn't laugh at you because I know Larry Bird is legitimately in the conversation.

When I said Eli was the best the response was...Im ridiculous becuase Eli isn't even in the conversation.

Wow now that you put it that way...

Seriously, if you made Eli's case for top 5, no one would have disagreed. You made it at a time when Rodgers was invincible, and three QBs broke the 5k barrier. The only reason you take marginal credibility gain in all of this is because people agree with you now, for different reasons. Everyone who agrees that Eli is #1 now is saying that because of what we see on the field, and his credentials -- which took a significant increase from the time you made your assertion, until now.

A better comparison would be how in the preseason, I said the Broncos were a playoff team and could do some damage. My reasoning was because I thought Fox was a good coach, and Orton could win them some games.

Now Denver made the playoffs, but under completely different circumstances, and Tebow (who I have been very critical of since his time in Florida) was the guy to get them there. I don't go around touting that prediction, because it happened under different circumstances. If I were you, I would go dig all that up and try to gain as much credibility as possible. But really, it is undeserved.

Now what could you have possibly based your assertion on at the time, where Eli was outnumbered in yards by 3 other QBs, and outnumbered in TDs by 5 other QBs? Not to mention that Brees, Brady, and Rodgers had 1, 3, and 1 ring respectively? How did you expect your assertion to hold any weight with anyone on here, even some of the biggest homers? Is it unanimous now? Almost. I certainly agree that Eli makes the case and could possibly be #1 in the league, but that has a lot to do with what I have seen of him (which is extensive), and his credentials which include 4 more playoff wins, and a 2nd SB.

burier

04-07-2012, 01:28 PM

If I asked you to name the top 5 Basketball players all time and you said...Larry Bird. I may disagree...But I wouldn't laugh at you because I know Larry Bird is legitimately in the conversation.

When I said Eli was the best the response was...Im ridiculous becuase Eli isn't even in the conversation.

Wow now that you put it that way...

Seriously, if you made Eli's case for top 5, no one would have disagreed. You made it at a time when Rodgers was invincible, and three QBs broke the 5k barrier. The only reason you take marginal credibility gain in all of this is because people agree with you now, for different reasons. Everyone who agrees that Eli is #1 now is saying that because of what we see on the field, and his credentials -- which took a significant increase from the time you made your assertion, until now.

A better comparison would be how in the preseason, I said the Broncos were a playoff team and could do some damage. My reasoning was because I thought Fox was a good coach, and Orton could win them some games.

Now Denver made the playoffs, but under completely different circumstances, and Tebow (who I have been very critical of since his time in Florida) was the guy to get them there. I don't go around touting that prediction, because it happened under different circumstances. If I were you, I would go dig all that up and try to gain as much credibility as possible. But really, it is undeserved.

Now what could you have possibly based your assertion on at the time, where Eli was outnumbered in yards by 3 other QBs, and outnumbered in TDs by 5 other QBs? Not to mention that Brees, Brady, and Rodgers had 1, 3, and 1 ring respectively? How did you expect your assertion to hold any weight with anyone on here, even some of the biggest homers? Is it unanimous now? Almost. I certainly agree that Eli makes the case and could possibly be #1 in the league, but that has a lot to do with what I have seen of him (which is extensive), and his credentials which include 4 more playoff wins, and a 2nd SB.

Right but anyone could go look up stats and go ok...here are the top 5 QBs...heres the number 1 QB.

What fun is that?

Its not only unfun but its innacurate since stats tell only part of the story.

Your assertion that Rogers was invincible speaks to my lemmings point. in week 17 Rogers already took a loss to KC no less and had already played the Giants head to head where he showed...SHOWED...that he was no more than Par with Eli Manning. Media didn't say so...so no one thought so...But if you watched the games without the ESPN goggles you would have seen this and my statement wouldn't have been so far fetched.

We're talking about the difference between football analysis and stats analysis.

I agree Eli has twice as many SBs and SB MVPs compared to when I made my statement but I strongly disagree that his game made any drastic leap in that time frame.

It was his game that caused me to make the statement to begin with.

Im not in Love with Eli Manning. I'm not in love with the Manning Family.

If he didnt play for the Giants I wouldn't even care about the guy. I was just calling it like I saw it.

gmen0820

04-07-2012, 01:45 PM

If I asked you to name the top 5 Basketball players all time and you said...Larry Bird. I may disagree...But I wouldn't laugh at you because I know Larry Bird is legitimately in the conversation.

When I said Eli was the best the response was...Im ridiculous becuase Eli isn't even in the conversation.

Wow now that you put it that way...

Seriously, if you made Eli's case for top 5, no one would have disagreed. You made it at a time when Rodgers was invincible, and three QBs broke the 5k barrier. The only reason you take marginal credibility gain in all of this is because people agree with you now, for different reasons. Everyone who agrees that Eli is #1 now is saying that because of what we see on the field, and his credentials -- which took a significant increase from the time you made your assertion, until now.

A better comparison would be how in the preseason, I said the Broncos were a playoff team and could do some damage. My reasoning was because I thought Fox was a good coach, and Orton could win them some games.

Now Denver made the playoffs, but under completely different circumstances, and Tebow (who I have been very critical of since his time in Florida) was the guy to get them there. I don't go around touting that prediction, because it happened under different circumstances. If I were you, I would go dig all that up and try to gain as much credibility as possible. But really, it is undeserved.

Now what could you have possibly based your assertion on at the time, where Eli was outnumbered in yards by 3 other QBs, and outnumbered in TDs by 5 other QBs? Not to mention that Brees, Brady, and Rodgers had 1, 3, and 1 ring respectively? How did you expect your assertion to hold any weight with anyone on here, even some of the biggest homers? Is it unanimous now? Almost. I certainly agree that Eli makes the case and could possibly be #1 in the league, but that has a lot to do with what I have seen of him (which is extensive), and his credentials which include 4 more playoff wins, and a 2nd SB.

Right but anyone could go look up stats and go ok...here are the top 5 QBs...heres the number 1 QB.

What fun is that?

Its not only unfun but its innacurate since stats tell only part of the story.

Your assertion that Rogers was invincible speaks to my lemmings point. in week 17 Rogers already took a loss to KC no less and had already played the Giants head to head where he showed...SHOWED...that he was no more than Par with Eli Manning. Media didn't say so...so no one thought so...But if you watched the games without the ESPN goggles you would have seen this and my statement wouldn't have been so far fetched.

We're talking about the difference between football analysis and stats analysis.

I agree Eli has twice as many SBs and SB MVPs compared to when I made my statement but I strongly disagree that his game has made any drastic leap.

It was his game that caused me to make the statement to begin with.

Im not in Love with Eli Manning. I'm not in love with the Manning Family.

If he didnt play for the Giants I wouldn't even care about the guy. I was just calling it like I saw it.Okay so you base it on a completely subjective eye, and try to throw it in people's face when people disagree. And Rodger's being invincible was not something to be taken literally, you should be smarter than that.

And you're telling me to watch a game without ESPN goggles? Seriously? You scoff at people who make unfair assessments of you based on what they see you post, because you feel it is asinine to judge off of posts, but you can assess how people watch games. I was critical of posters who complained about Eli's lack of supporting cast, and those who never blamed Eli for anything, but I gave Eli a helluva lot of props throughout the year. I was enamored with Eli, and I saw a lot of strides in his game.

Your eye just happens to match up now that Eli has stats and credentials. I've done numerous write-ups on Eli on what I saw from him and what separates him from other QBs. You just mention that you made a prediction based off what you saw. Okay? What does that even mean?

You say Eli, the QB of what was a 9-7 (maybe 8-7 based on the time of the prediction), and coming off two playoff-less years, was better than the SB defending Aaron Rodgers (MVP as well), a two year removed SB MVP in Brees who was running a juggernaut in NO, and Tom Brady whose credentials are well known. You expect people to eat crow for what was a shoddy assessment at best at the time?

Right now, the way I see it, Eli -- Rodgers -- Brady -- Peyton -- and maybe Brees all possess universally important QB traits among them being accuracy, anticipation, pocket awareness etc. All have their strengths, and all have their faults (although their faults are less than those of other QBs). These guys are the elite class, and there are other QBs who can make the case as well. I would put Eli at the top because of namely his 2 SBs and intangibles.

gumby742

04-07-2012, 02:23 PM

You have cause and effect all wrong.

You as of that day said Eli was the best. People disagreed with you AT THAT TIME. People NEVER disputed that Eli could potentially be the best at some point in the future - which is exactly what you are saying now. So no one is correct or incorrect.

Once the microphones started talking the people would also probably follow. Why? It NOT because of blind faith. But because all of us are watching exactly the same game. Thus they probably saw what the media saw. And I'm talking about giant fans who watch the giants week in and week out. Not just on Espn.

Edit: let me give you an example of what you're doing. You watch some cowboy games and think to y romo is a choker. The media also watches that same set of games and comes to the same conclusion. So does that make you a lemming?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

The only thing I gather from you is that you believe it is impossible to give incorrect football analysis.

We disagree on that point.

In fact if I thought I could just back out of everything I ever said I wouldn't bother saying anything to begin with.

As far as your example....Bottom line: If you allow the media to form your opinion you're a lemming. No way around it. That's what it is.

I say Eli is #1

I get mocked

5 weeks later Eli wins SB MVP

Silence as weeks pass (Is Eli top 5? Trending question.)

Sports writer says what I already said THREE MONTHS PRIOR everyone agrees with sports writer.

If you can't see how ridiculous people on this board look for that chain of events I really don't know what to tell you.

Among us Giant fans, you have to be kidding yourself if you think any one of us formed our opinion of Eli based off of what the media said. It boggles my mind how you can possibly even think that. If you want to say that about other fans outside the NFC East it makes more sense. They probably only know what the media and Sportscenter show. But to us Giant fans that watch week in a week out?!

Has it ever occurred to you that people just come up with the same opinion while watching the same game? I know that you're hard core Eli, but dude. Give me a break.

Let me give you something to think about. Saying Eli was the best QB in the NFL in week 17 is a different situation then saying Eli is the best QB CURRENTLY/today. They are 2 completely different statements. If you understand what I just said, then you'll understand that the "i told you so game" that you're playing now, is targeting nobody.

No one ever said that Eli would NEVER become the best QB. Just that he wasn't the best 6 months ago.

As for calling me a lemming, let me tell you a few things. When Eli signed that big contract and most the board and the media were up in arms, I was happy with it. When Plaxico shot himself everyone wanted us to sign Edwards, I so no. When people were up in arms about Reese not resigning Smith, Boss, and cutting half our o-line, I said it was a good football move. I was one of the few that stood by Reese and almost every move. Fewell is apparently now a really good co-ordinator. I'm not buying. Cruz is a superstar. I need one more year. JPP is a superstar now also. I still want to see more before I proclaim him to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Oh and our vaunted front 4 that the media loves to rave about? Overrated. I've probably gone against the grain more then you have.

Quickly let me address the lemming comment.

I don't mean to say that Giants fans rely completely on the media to tell them what to think about Eli but I do think the media has an alarming infuence on some of us and its scary.

You dont find it odd that the Media says something THEN the fans say the same thing damn near every time?

And let me add that even after the SB I didnt hear people saying Eli was the best...It took a media out let to say it first...what do you call that???

Who decided who the best QB is? Is it decided in a media room or on the field of play?

Are you suggesting that 4 games is what propelled Eli to the top of a montain he wasn't even on prior to the playoffs? The suggestion is laughable. If thats how it worked Eli would have been the reigning number 1 QB since 2008..Remember this was his second remarkable playoff run.

Now what Im saying is NO I don't see the difference between Eli week 17 and Eli currently.

Certainly not drastic enough a difference to go from ridicule to agreement.

And thats the point.

If I asked you to name the top 5 Basketball players all time and you said...Larry Bird. I may disagree...But I wouldn't laugh at you because I know Larry Bird is legitimately in the conversation.

When I said Eli was the best the response was...Im ridiculous becuase Eli isn't even in the conversation.

So no I don't the difference between saying Eli #1 week 17 and Eli #1 today (Considering football has been over for 2 months) and if there's a difference in Eli or any othe QB in that time period it couldn't possibly be enough to take Eli from not even being in the conversation to being one of the main components of the conversation.

And even if you don't want to take responsibility for being wrong on the issue...you should at least be willing to give props to me...because at the very least ive proven to be absolutely clairvoiant.

(If I say I was right...and leave the you were wrong part out...will that make you feel better?)

Bottom line is Eli has gotten so much bad pub while Brady, Breese and Rogers have gotten so much great pub that people were actually brainwashed and they couldnt believe there own eyes when for the entire season Eli outplayed every QB in the league with the exception of Rogers and then outclassed Rogers in the playoffs.

If you saw what I saw we would have agreed...that simple.

And if not...you should be thinking...Damn...What the hell does the Burier know that I don't? Why did I hear it from him first???

1) Lol. It took a media outlet to say it first before anyone said it? The entire message board was having the same discussion forever before that. It was happening practically every day. And at the end most people were willing to say Eli is an elite QB. Most of the threads created were by yourself and your cohorts. No one created an Eli thread to say, "Eli is an elite QB", because no one really cared. The only people that really care about where Eli stands relative to other QBs are Eli fans like yourself.

2)And during the regular season, people said he was playing like an elite QB (not the best), but they needed to see more. And the run through the playoffs solidified their hope created during his brilliant regular season. So yes, 4 games could have had that big an impact. You of all people should know. After his first SB win, you and the others were proclaiming him to be an elite QB - with his previous struggles forgotten. Don't pretend that our run to the SB was just another 4 games to you. Winning the SB is the single biggest cause of amnesia in the NFL. It's an example of "I hope" turning into "It is". When you said Eli was the best, it was too early and people weren't ready. And even now, it's still a discussion if Eli really is the best. It's NOT clear as night and day that Eli is the best.

3)How would you be clairvoyant? You didn't say Eli would eventually be the best. You said Eli was the best at a time in the past. To exaggerate to make a point, time warp back to 2004 and IF you said Eli was the best QB in the league as a rookie in 2004, would that make you correct now in saying that Eli is the best? That's exactly what you're doing. And if you do think so, then you're forgetting about all the potential wrongs that you might have been before your prediction was realized. When I was in 5th grade, I used to predict the Giants would win the SB every year. And finally, we did win one and I told my friends I told you so. lol.

JJC7301

04-07-2012, 10:31 PM

Nice post. "Book of Eli." I like it.

NYG 5

04-08-2012, 11:43 AM

actually, I should say Trent Dilfer isn't the great game manager of our time. he actually made the first catastrophic mistake with the Armstead pick six, the refs just bailed him out of it. the Giants were actually on the road to winning the war of attrition that game, and then the refs called do overs.

Eli never had a critical turnover in the super bowl runs. he has 15 TDs, 2 int in those runs, and one was off the hands of SS12. he could play both game manager and workhorse.

burier

04-09-2012, 11:15 AM

You have cause and effect all wrong.

You as of that day said Eli was the best. People disagreed with you AT THAT TIME. People NEVER disputed that Eli could potentially be the best at some point in the future - which is exactly what you are saying now. So no one is correct or incorrect.

Once the microphones started talking the people would also probably follow. Why? It NOT because of blind faith. But because all of us are watching exactly the same game. Thus they probably saw what the media saw. And I'm talking about giant fans who watch the giants week in and week out. Not just on Espn.

Edit: let me give you an example of what you're doing. You watch some cowboy games and think to y romo is a choker. The media also watches that same set of games and comes to the same conclusion. So does that make you a lemming?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

The only thing I gather from you is that you believe it is impossible to give incorrect football analysis.

We disagree on that point.

In fact if I thought I could just back out of everything I ever said I wouldn't bother saying anything to begin with.

As far as your example....Bottom line: If you allow the media to form your opinion you're a lemming. No way around it. That's what it is.

I say Eli is #1

I get mocked

5 weeks later Eli wins SB MVP

Silence as weeks pass (Is Eli top 5? Trending question.)

Sports writer says what I already said THREE MONTHS PRIOR everyone agrees with sports writer.

If you can't see how ridiculous people on this board look for that chain of events I really don't know what to tell you.

Among us Giant fans, you have to be kidding yourself if you think any one of us formed our opinion of Eli based off of what the media said. It boggles my mind how you can possibly even think that. If you want to say that about other fans outside the NFC East it makes more sense. They probably only know what the media and Sportscenter show. But to us Giant fans that watch week in a week out?!

Has it ever occurred to you that people just come up with the same opinion while watching the same game? I know that you're hard core Eli, but dude. Give me a break.

Let me give you something to think about. Saying Eli was the best QB in the NFL in week 17 is a different situation then saying Eli is the best QB CURRENTLY/today. They are 2 completely different statements. If you understand what I just said, then you'll understand that the "i told you so game" that you're playing now, is targeting nobody.

No one ever said that Eli would NEVER become the best QB. Just that he wasn't the best 6 months ago.

As for calling me a lemming, let me tell you a few things. When Eli signed that big contract and most the board and the media were up in arms, I was happy with it. When Plaxico shot himself everyone wanted us to sign Edwards, I so no. When people were up in arms about Reese not resigning Smith, Boss, and cutting half our o-line, I said it was a good football move. I was one of the few that stood by Reese and almost every move. Fewell is apparently now a really good co-ordinator. I'm not buying. Cruz is a superstar. I need one more year. JPP is a superstar now also. I still want to see more before I proclaim him to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Oh and our vaunted front 4 that the media loves to rave about? Overrated. I've probably gone against the grain more then you have.

Quickly let me address the lemming comment.

I don't mean to say that Giants fans rely completely on the media to tell them what to think about Eli but I do think the media has an alarming infuence on some of us and its scary.

You dont find it odd that the Media says something THEN the fans say the same thing damn near every time?

And let me add that even after the SB I didnt hear people saying Eli was the best...It took a media out let to say it first...what do you call that???

Who decided who the best QB is? Is it decided in a media room or on the field of play?

Are you suggesting that 4 games is what propelled Eli to the top of a montain he wasn't even on prior to the playoffs? The suggestion is laughable. If thats how it worked Eli would have been the reigning number 1 QB since 2008..Remember this was his second remarkable playoff run.

Now what Im saying is NO I don't see the difference between Eli week 17 and Eli currently.

Certainly not drastic enough a difference to go from ridicule to agreement.

And thats the point.

If I asked you to name the top 5 Basketball players all time and you said...Larry Bird. I may disagree...But I wouldn't laugh at you because I know Larry Bird is legitimately in the conversation.

When I said Eli was the best the response was...Im ridiculous becuase Eli isn't even in the conversation.

So no I don't the difference between saying Eli #1 week 17 and Eli #1 today (Considering football has been over for 2 months) and if there's a difference in Eli or any othe QB in that time period it couldn't possibly be enough to take Eli from not even being in the conversation to being one of the main components of the conversation.

And even if you don't want to take responsibility for being wrong on the issue...you should at least be willing to give props to me...because at the very least ive proven to be absolutely clairvoiant.

(If I say I was right...and leave the you were wrong part out...will that make you feel better?)

Bottom line is Eli has gotten so much bad pub while Brady, Breese and Rogers have gotten so much great pub that people were actually brainwashed and they couldnt believe there own eyes when for the entire season Eli outplayed every QB in the league with the exception of Rogers and then outclassed Rogers in the playoffs.

If you saw what I saw we would have agreed...that simple.

And if not...you should be thinking...Damn...What the hell does the Burier know that I don't? Why did I hear it from him first???

1) Lol. It took a media outlet to say it first before anyone said it? The entire message board was having the same discussion forever before that. It was happening practically every day. And at the end most people were willing to say Eli is an elite QB. Most of the threads created were by yourself and your cohorts. No one created an Eli thread to say, "Eli is an elite QB", because no one really cared. The only people that really care about where Eli stands relative to other QBs are Eli fans like yourself.

2)And during the regular season, people said he was playing like an elite QB (not the best), but they needed to see more. And the run through the playoffs solidified their hope created during his brilliant regular season. So yes, 4 games could have had that big an impact. You of all people should know. After his first SB win, you and the others were proclaiming him to be an elite QB - with his previous struggles forgotten. Don't pretend that our run to the SB was just another 4 games to you. Winning the SB is the single biggest cause of amnesia in the NFL. It's an example of "I hope" turning into "It is". When you said Eli was the best, it was too early and people weren't ready. And even now, it's still a discussion if Eli really is the best. It's NOT clear as night and day that Eli is the best.

3)How would you be clairvoyant? You didn't say Eli would eventually be the best. You said Eli was the best at a time in the past. To exaggerate to make a point, time warp back to 2004 and IF you said Eli was the best QB in the league as a rookie in 2004, would that make you correct now in saying that Eli is the best? That's exactly what you're doing. And if you do think so, then you're forgetting about all the potential wrongs that you might have been before your prediction was realized. When I was in 5th grade, I used to predict the Giants would win the SB every year. And finally, we did win one and I told my friends I told you so. lol.

(Christ Gumby...We're having this back and forth...Just answer this question. By week 17 of this past seaon who was playing better than Eli? Who? If you can name some we can leave it at that and keep it moving)

I don't really know what to say to you? Are you seriously arguing that in Week 17 there were QBs playing better than Eli?

Because that's really what it seems like you're arguing. You're trying to argue that in week 17 there were clearly better QBs than Eli and over the next 4 games He perhaps somehow leapfrogged 4 guys . If you're sticking with that after what was displayed on the field then fine. I don't want to argue that point with you.

If taking that stance makes you feel better fine. Knock yourself out.

As far as your third point. I can't see the future. Good job by you though of completely Emila BediliaING my point.

I'm a pretty good predictor of the future because I believe my eyes.

And the entire message board was having this random "Elite" Discussion. There was no best in class disucssion.

The problem was as soon As Eli was accepted as "Elite" the goal post moved.

So there was Elite that includes Eli Manning...and then there was another class of let call them..."Super Elite" QB which Eli was universally considered inferior to.

No one would have called me crazy had I said any of the Super Elite were the number QB in the league. I could say Breese, Rogers, Brady and even Big Brother and I would have gotten no flack which indicated a class differencial. Once Eli got promoted so did the 3 other guys.

I said Eli was already at the head of that class and then Eli removed all doubt from the non-believers thats all.

Also calling me an Eli fan doesn't help your point at all. I might be an Eli fan but this Eli fan never said Eli was the best QB in the league until he SHOWED it me.

Edit: And while we're on the subject of clairvoyance.

I predicted the Giants would the falcons. But since I said it before the game...I guess it doesn't count. Afterall no one said the Giants wouldn EVENTUALLY beat the falcons.

Then I predicted the Giants would the Packers. But again..I did say that before the game so I guess that doesn't count...and since the Packers were favored I guess my prediction was pretty gotdammed shoddy.

Then I predicted the Giants would beat the 49ers...Ya know Gumby we should have this chat before the playoffs so that I could have known to wait until after something happens to say anything about it.

And finally yes....I did predict that The Giants would beat the Patriots. Again..it was a prediction..so I made the mistake of saying it before the game. My bad.

burier

04-09-2012, 11:44 AM

If I asked you to name the top 5 Basketball players all time and you said...Larry Bird. I may disagree...But I wouldn't laugh at you because I know Larry Bird is legitimately in the conversation.

When I said Eli was the best the response was...Im ridiculous becuase Eli isn't even in the conversation.

Wow now that you put it that way...

Seriously, if you made Eli's case for top 5, no one would have disagreed. You made it at a time when Rodgers was invincible, and three QBs broke the 5k barrier. The only reason you take marginal credibility gain in all of this is because people agree with you now, for different reasons. Everyone who agrees that Eli is #1 now is saying that because of what we see on the field, and his credentials -- which took a significant increase from the time you made your assertion, until now.

A better comparison would be how in the preseason, I said the Broncos were a playoff team and could do some damage. My reasoning was because I thought Fox was a good coach, and Orton could win them some games.

Now Denver made the playoffs, but under completely different circumstances, and Tebow (who I have been very critical of since his time in Florida) was the guy to get them there. I don't go around touting that prediction, because it happened under different circumstances. If I were you, I would go dig all that up and try to gain as much credibility as possible. But really, it is undeserved.

Now what could you have possibly based your assertion on at the time, where Eli was outnumbered in yards by 3 other QBs, and outnumbered in TDs by 5 other QBs? Not to mention that Brees, Brady, and Rodgers had 1, 3, and 1 ring respectively? How did you expect your assertion to hold any weight with anyone on here, even some of the biggest homers? Is it unanimous now? Almost. I certainly agree that Eli makes the case and could possibly be #1 in the league, but that has a lot to do with what I have seen of him (which is extensive), and his credentials which include 4 more playoff wins, and a 2nd SB.

Right but anyone could go look up stats and go ok...here are the top 5 QBs...heres the number 1 QB.

What fun is that?

Its not only unfun but its innacurate since stats tell only part of the story.

Your assertion that Rogers was invincible speaks to my lemmings point. in week 17 Rogers already took a loss to KC no less and had already played the Giants head to head where he showed...SHOWED...that he was no more than Par with Eli Manning. Media didn't say so...so no one thought so...But if you watched the games without the ESPN goggles you would have seen this and my statement wouldn't have been so far fetched.

We're talking about the difference between football analysis and stats analysis.

I agree Eli has twice as many SBs and SB MVPs compared to when I made my statement but I strongly disagree that his game has made any drastic leap.

It was his game that caused me to make the statement to begin with.

Im not in Love with Eli Manning. I'm not in love with the Manning Family.

If he didnt play for the Giants I wouldn't even care about the guy. I was just calling it like I saw it.Okay so you base it on a completely subjective eye, and try to throw it in people's face when people disagree. And Rodger's being invincible was not something to be taken literally, you should be smarter than that.

And you're telling me to watch a game without ESPN goggles? Seriously? You scoff at people who make unfair assessments of you based on what they see you post, because you feel it is asinine to judge off of posts, but you can assess how people watch games. I was critical of posters who complained about Eli's lack of supporting cast, and those who never blamed Eli for anything, but I gave Eli a helluva lot of props throughout the year. I was enamored with Eli, and I saw a lot of strides in his game.

Your eye just happens to match up now that Eli has stats and credentials. I've done numerous write-ups on Eli on what I saw from him and what separates him from other QBs. You just mention that you made a prediction based off what you saw. Okay? What does that even mean?

You say Eli, the QB of what was a 9-7 (maybe 8-7 based on the time of the prediction), and coming off two playoff-less years, was better than the SB defending Aaron Rodgers (MVP as well), a two year removed SB MVP in Brees who was running a juggernaut in NO, and Tom Brady whose credentials are well known. You expect people to eat crow for what was a shoddy assessment at best at the time?

Right now, the way I see it, Eli -- Rodgers -- Brady -- Peyton -- and maybe Brees all possess universally important QB traits among them being accuracy, anticipation, pocket awareness etc. All have their strengths, and all have their faults (although their faults are less than those of other QBs). These guys are the elite class, and there are other QBs who can make the case as well. I would put Eli at the top because of namely his 2 SBs and intangibles.

Its all subjective..But if you're going to act like someone else has an inferior opinion and his opinon proves to not be inferior at all that may be a sign to take another look at yourself.

As far as Roger's comment what did you mean by Rogers was invincible? I took you to mean that he was superior. I merely pointed out that he lost to a pretty weak team and then did not show that he was Superior to Eli manning in a head-to-head contest.

Im throwing my assessment of a player in people's faces not because they disagreed, but because they thought my assessment was funny.

And now my assessment is being called shoddy by you even though it has actually been proven to be anything but shoddy.

Does the best player need some credential?
Is it impossible for a Rookie Quarterback to be best Quarterback in the league?

I say if you're physically and mentally the best you're the best regardless of what other player has done what in the past or present. If you're the best you're the best.

So You're talking about credentials but I was talking about the PLAYER...I wasn't arguing that Eli had the best stats..or the most Superbowls or the most MVPS. If I said that I would be innacurate and would have deserved be called out. I was assessing the player and what he's shown to be capable of as a player. So from that prespective I fail to see the point in saying that other CBs had better this or that. Again stats don't tell the whole story.

What I read from you is.. I should have waited until the Giants won the Superbowl and then said Eli was the best QB. I just don't understand why if I came to that conclusion 4 weeks prior I should have kept it to myself?

Its like saying Don't predict the best team in the NFL until after the Superbowl.

yoeddy

04-10-2012, 08:18 AM

Giants have never won a Super Bowl without Belichik...

gumby742

04-10-2012, 10:41 AM

You have cause and effect all wrong. You as of that day said Eli was the best. People disagreed with you AT THAT TIME. People NEVER disputed that Eli could potentially be the best at some point in the future - which is exactly what you are saying now. So no one is correct or incorrect. Once the microphones started talking the people would also probably follow. Why? It NOT because of blind faith. But because all of us are watching exactly the same game. Thus they probably saw what the media saw. And I'm talking about giant fans who watch the giants week in and week out. Not just on Espn. Edit: let me give you an example of what you're doing. You watch some cowboy games and think to y romo is a choker. The media also watches that same set of games and comes to the same conclusion. So does that make you a lemming? I have no idea what you're talking about. The only thing I gather from you is that you believe it is impossible to give incorrect football analysis. We disagree on that point. In fact if I thought I could just back out of everything I ever said I wouldn't bother saying anything to begin with. As far as your example....Bottom line: If you allow the media to form your opinion you're a lemming. No way around it. That's what it is. I say Eli is #1 I get mocked 5 weeks later Eli wins SB MVP Silence as weeks pass (Is Eli top 5? Trending question.) Sports writer says what I already said THREE MONTHS PRIOR everyone agrees with sports writer. If you can't see how ridiculous people on this board look for that chain of events I really don't know what to tell you. Among us Giant fans, you have to be kidding yourself if you think any one of us formed our opinion of Eli based off of what the media said. It boggles my mind how you can possibly even think that. If you want to say that about other fans outside the NFC East it makes more sense. They probably only know what the media and Sportscenter show. But to us Giant fans that watch week in a week out?! Has it ever occurred to you that people just come up with the same opinion while watching the same game? I know that you're hard core Eli, but dude. Give me a break. Let me give you something to think about. Saying Eli was the best QB in the NFL in week 17 is a different situation then saying Eli is the best QB CURRENTLY/today. They are 2 completely different statements. If you understand what I just said, then you'll understand that the "i told you so game" that you're playing now, is targeting nobody. No one ever said that Eli would NEVER become the best QB. Just that he wasn't the best 6 months ago. As for calling me a lemming, let me tell you a few things. When Eli signed that big contract and most the board and the media were up in arms, I was happy with it. When Plaxico shot himself everyone wanted us to sign Edwards, I so no. When people were up in arms about Reese not resigning Smith, Boss, and cutting half our o-line, I said it was a good football move. I was one of the few that stood by Reese and almost every move. Fewell is apparently now a really good co-ordinator. I'm not buying. Cruz is a superstar. I need one more year. JPP is a superstar now also. I still want to see more before I proclaim him to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Oh and our vaunted front 4 that the media loves to rave about? Overrated. I've probably gone against the grain more then you have. Quickly let me address the lemming comment. I don't mean to say that Giants fans rely completely on the media to tell them what to think about Eli but I do think the media has an alarming infuence on some of us and its scary. You dont find it odd that the Media says something THEN the fans say the same thing damn near every time? And let me add that even after the SB I didnt hear people saying Eli was the best...It took a media out let to say it first...what do you call that??? Who decided who the best QB is? Is it decided in a media room or on the field of play? Are you suggesting that 4 games is what propelled Eli to the top of a montain he wasn't even on prior to the playoffs? The suggestion is laughable. If thats how it worked Eli would have been the reigning number 1 QB since 2008..Remember this was his second remarkable playoff run. Now what Im saying is NO I don't see the difference between Eli week 17 and Eli currently. Certainly not drastic enough a difference to go from ridicule to agreement. And thats the point. If I asked you to name the top 5 Basketball players all time and you said...Larry Bird. I may disagree...But I wouldn't laugh at you because I know Larry Bird is legitimately in the conversation. When I said Eli was the best the response was...Im ridiculous becuase Eli isn't even in the conversation. So no I don't the difference between saying Eli #1 week 17 and Eli #1 today (Considering football has been over for 2 months) and if there's a difference in Eli or any othe QB in that time period it couldn't possibly be enough to take Eli from not even being in the conversation to being one of the main components of the conversation. And even if you don't want to take responsibility for being wrong on the issue...you should at least be willing to give props to me...because at the very least ive proven to be absolutely clairvoiant. (If I say I was right...and leave the you were wrong part out...will that make you feel better?) Bottom line is Eli has gotten so much bad pub while Brady, Breese and Rogers have gotten so much great pub that people were actually brainwashed and they couldnt believe there own eyes when for the entire season Eli outplayed every QB in the league with the exception of Rogers and then outclassed Rogers in the playoffs. If you saw what I saw we would have agreed...that simple. And if not...you should be thinking...Damn...What the hell does the Burier know that I don't? Why did I hear it from him first??? 1) Lol. It took a media outlet to say it first before anyone said it? The entire message board was having the same discussion forever before that. It was happening practically every day. And at the end most people were willing to say Eli is an elite QB. Most of the threads created were by yourself and your cohorts. No one created an Eli thread to say, "Eli is an elite QB", because no one really cared. The only people that really care about where Eli stands relative to other QBs are Eli fans like yourself. 2)And during the regular season, people said he was playing like an elite QB (not the best), but they needed to see more. And the run through the playoffs solidified their hope created during his brilliant regular season. So yes, 4 games could have had that big an impact. You of all people should know. After his first SB win, you and the others were proclaiming him to be an elite QB - with his previous struggles forgotten. Don't pretend that our run to the SB was just another 4 games to you. Winning the SB is the single biggest cause of amnesia in the NFL. It's an example of "I hope" turning into "It is". When you said Eli was the best, it was too early and people weren't ready. And even now, it's still a discussion if Eli really is the best. It's NOT clear as night and day that Eli is the best. 3)How would you be clairvoyant? You didn't say Eli would eventually be the best. You said Eli was the best at a time in the past. To exaggerate to make a point, time warp back to 2004 and IF you said Eli was the best QB in the league as a rookie in 2004, would that make you correct now in saying that Eli is the best? That's exactly what you're doing. And if you do think so, then you're forgetting about all the potential wrongs that you might have been before your prediction was realized. When I was in 5th grade, I used to predict the Giants would win the SB every year. And finally, we did win one and I told my friends I told you so. lol. (Christ Gumby...We're having this back and forth...Just answer this question. By week 17 of this past seaon who was playing better than Eli? Who? If you can name some we can leave it at that and keep it moving) I don't really know what to say to you? Are you seriously arguing that in Week 17 there were QBs playing better than Eli? Because that's really what it seems like you're arguing. You're trying to argue that in week 17 there were clearly better QBs than Eli and over the next 4 games He perhaps somehow leapfrogged 4 guys . If you're sticking with that after what was displayed on the field then fine. I don't want to argue that point with you. If taking that stance makes you feel better fine. Knock yourself out. As far as your third point. I can't see the future. Good job by you though of completely Emila BediliaING my point. I'm a pretty good predictor of the future because I believe my eyes. And the entire message board was having this random "Elite" Discussion. There was no best in class disucssion. The problem was as soon As Eli was accepted as "Elite" the goal post moved. So there was Elite that includes Eli Manning...and then there was another class of let call them..."Super Elite" QB which Eli was universally considered inferior to. No one would have called me crazy had I said any of the Super Elite were the number QB in the league. I could say Breese, Rogers, Brady and even Big Brother and I would have gotten no flack which indicated a class differencial. Once Eli got promoted so did the 3 other guys. I said Eli was already at the head of that class and then Eli removed all doubt from the non-believers thats all. Also calling me an Eli fan doesn't help your point at all. I might be an Eli fan but this Eli fan never said Eli was the best QB in the league until he SHOWED it me. Edit: And while we're on the subject of clairvoyance. I predicted the Giants would the falcons. But since I said it before the game...I guess it doesn't count. Afterall no one said the Giants wouldn EVENTUALLY beat the falcons. Then I predicted the Giants would the Packers. But again..I did say that before the game so I guess that doesn't count...and since the Packers were favored I guess my prediction was pretty gotdammed shoddy. Then I predicted the Giants would beat the 49ers...Ya know Gumby we should have this chat before the playoffs so that I could have known to wait until after something happens to say anything about it. And finally yes....I did predict that The Giants would beat the Patriots. Again..it was a prediction..so I made the mistake of saying it before the game. My bad.</P>

1) You're asking the wrong question. Your comment said that Eli was the best QB in the NFL. That encompasses an entire career of work. Not just one season or one week which your question "Who was playing the best all by week 17" implies. But, it was arguable that Eli was not playing the best in week 17 anyway. You had plenty of others in the equation. Brees, Brady, Rodgers, etc. In fact, most people said it was Rodgers. I'm not putting my personal opinion in this. I am absolutely arguing that when you said Eli was the best QB in the NFL, it was not the case in most peoples minds. Had you said, Eli is playing the best football this season, you might not have had such a negative response.</P>

And I addressed the next 4 games issue above. Don't treat the next 4 games as regular 4 games. The post seasonis when heroes are born and unborn. You of all people should know this. See #2. So all things considered, yes, the next 4 biggest games of potentially any QBs career, vaulted him into the elite category.</P>

But whatever, we'll agree to disagree. It just boggles my mind that you can't see the next 4 games as completely huge to a QBs reputation and not just "another 4 games". It was a big deal. And big deal's change peoples minds. On top of that, we have entire players careers to take into consideration. Not just 2011. The reason why I think this point is important and why I harp on it is because you use this reason to down play why people were "against" Eli at the time and why you were right all along. I'm refuting the premise on what your "i told you so" attitude is.</P>

2) As for the whole "Goal post being moved once Eli was accepted as Elite".To clarify this was afterthe post season run. Now it just seems you're whining about people not thinking Eli is not THE best. You have to keep in mind that once a QB is accepted at a certain level, it's splitting hairs. Just because people may not see Eli as the best, doesn't mean he isn't Elite nor seen as not worthy of his company. It's just people's opinion. You do not see people slamming others for saying Eli is the best QB anymore. Because agree or not, whether Eli is the best, is seen as a worthy statement. You can think of it as the goal post being moved, but not by very much. Where as before this season, Eli might have been 50 yards away, he's now, if you do not think he's the best, let's say 2 yards away. But hey, if you want to think he's the best, it's all good too. It's like saying, do you think Dan Marino was better or Warren Moon? I'm not sure why you take it all personal when people aren't over Eli like flies on doodoo.</P>

All this talk about seeing, and him showing you is subjective. The blindest of haters and the blindest of homers will see different things. So really, i don't see how it's relevant.</P>

You can predict whatever you want, I can care less. We're talking about Eli here.</P>

burier

04-10-2012, 11:22 AM

You have cause and effect all wrong. You as of that day said Eli was the best. People disagreed with you AT THAT TIME. People NEVER disputed that Eli could potentially be the best at some point in the future - which is exactly what you are saying now. So no one is correct or incorrect. Once the microphones started talking the people would also probably follow. Why? It NOT because of blind faith. But because all of us are watching exactly the same game. Thus they probably saw what the media saw. And I'm talking about giant fans who watch the giants week in and week out. Not just on Espn. Edit: let me give you an example of what you're doing. You watch some cowboy games and think to y romo is a choker. The media also watches that same set of games and comes to the same conclusion. So does that make you a lemming? I have no idea what you're talking about. The only thing I gather from you is that you believe it is impossible to give incorrect football analysis. We disagree on that point. In fact if I thought I could just back out of everything I ever said I wouldn't bother saying anything to begin with. As far as your example....Bottom line: If you allow the media to form your opinion you're a lemming. No way around it. That's what it is. I say Eli is #1 I get mocked 5 weeks later Eli wins SB MVP Silence as weeks pass (Is Eli top 5? Trending question.) Sports writer says what I already said THREE MONTHS PRIOR everyone agrees with sports writer. If you can't see how ridiculous people on this board look for that chain of events I really don't know what to tell you. Among us Giant fans, you have to be kidding yourself if you think any one of us formed our opinion of Eli based off of what the media said. It boggles my mind how you can possibly even think that. If you want to say that about other fans outside the NFC East it makes more sense. They probably only know what the media and Sportscenter show. But to us Giant fans that watch week in a week out?! Has it ever occurred to you that people just come up with the same opinion while watching the same game? I know that you're hard core Eli, but dude. Give me a break. Let me give you something to think about. Saying Eli was the best QB in the NFL in week 17 is a different situation then saying Eli is the best QB CURRENTLY/today. They are 2 completely different statements. If you understand what I just said, then you'll understand that the "i told you so game" that you're playing now, is targeting nobody. No one ever said that Eli would NEVER become the best QB. Just that he wasn't the best 6 months ago. As for calling me a lemming, let me tell you a few things. When Eli signed that big contract and most the board and the media were up in arms, I was happy with it. When Plaxico shot himself everyone wanted us to sign Edwards, I so no. When people were up in arms about Reese not resigning Smith, Boss, and cutting half our o-line, I said it was a good football move. I was one of the few that stood by Reese and almost every move. Fewell is apparently now a really good co-ordinator. I'm not buying. Cruz is a superstar. I need one more year. JPP is a superstar now also. I still want to see more before I proclaim him to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Oh and our vaunted front 4 that the media loves to rave about? Overrated. I've probably gone against the grain more then you have. Quickly let me address the lemming comment. I don't mean to say that Giants fans rely completely on the media to tell them what to think about Eli but I do think the media has an alarming infuence on some of us and its scary. You dont find it odd that the Media says something THEN the fans say the same thing damn near every time? And let me add that even after the SB I didnt hear people saying Eli was the best...It took a media out let to say it first...what do you call that??? Who decided who the best QB is? Is it decided in a media room or on the field of play? Are you suggesting that 4 games is what propelled Eli to the top of a montain he wasn't even on prior to the playoffs? The suggestion is laughable. If thats how it worked Eli would have been the reigning number 1 QB since 2008..Remember this was his second remarkable playoff run. Now what Im saying is NO I don't see the difference between Eli week 17 and Eli currently. Certainly not drastic enough a difference to go from ridicule to agreement. And thats the point. If I asked you to name the top 5 Basketball players all time and you said...Larry Bird. I may disagree...But I wouldn't laugh at you because I know Larry Bird is legitimately in the conversation. When I said Eli was the best the response was...Im ridiculous becuase Eli isn't even in the conversation. So no I don't the difference between saying Eli #1 week 17 and Eli #1 today (Considering football has been over for 2 months) and if there's a difference in Eli or any othe QB in that time period it couldn't possibly be enough to take Eli from not even being in the conversation to being one of the main components of the conversation. And even if you don't want to take responsibility for being wrong on the issue...you should at least be willing to give props to me...because at the very least ive proven to be absolutely clairvoiant. (If I say I was right...and leave the you were wrong part out...will that make you feel better?) Bottom line is Eli has gotten so much bad pub while Brady, Breese and Rogers have gotten so much great pub that people were actually brainwashed and they couldnt believe there own eyes when for the entire season Eli outplayed every QB in the league with the exception of Rogers and then outclassed Rogers in the playoffs. If you saw what I saw we would have agreed...that simple. And if not...you should be thinking...Damn...What the hell does the Burier know that I don't? Why did I hear it from him first??? 1) Lol. It took a media outlet to say it first before anyone said it? The entire message board was having the same discussion forever before that. It was happening practically every day. And at the end most people were willing to say Eli is an elite QB. Most of the threads created were by yourself and your cohorts. No one created an Eli thread to say, "Eli is an elite QB", because no one really cared. The only people that really care about where Eli stands relative to other QBs are Eli fans like yourself. 2)And during the regular season, people said he was playing like an elite QB (not the best), but they needed to see more. And the run through the playoffs solidified their hope created during his brilliant regular season. So yes, 4 games could have had that big an impact. You of all people should know. After his first SB win, you and the others were proclaiming him to be an elite QB - with his previous struggles forgotten. Don't pretend that our run to the SB was just another 4 games to you. Winning the SB is the single biggest cause of amnesia in the NFL. It's an example of "I hope" turning into "It is". When you said Eli was the best, it was too early and people weren't ready. And even now, it's still a discussion if Eli really is the best. It's NOT clear as night and day that Eli is the best. 3)How would you be clairvoyant? You didn't say Eli would eventually be the best. You said Eli was the best at a time in the past. To exaggerate to make a point, time warp back to 2004 and IF you said Eli was the best QB in the league as a rookie in 2004, would that make you correct now in saying that Eli is the best? That's exactly what you're doing. And if you do think so, then you're forgetting about all the potential wrongs that you might have been before your prediction was realized. When I was in 5th grade, I used to predict the Giants would win the SB every year. And finally, we did win one and I told my friends I told you so. lol. (Christ Gumby...We're having this back and forth...Just answer this question. By week 17 of this past seaon who was playing better than Eli? Who? If you can name some we can leave it at that and keep it moving) I don't really know what to say to you? Are you seriously arguing that in Week 17 there were QBs playing better than Eli? Because that's really what it seems like you're arguing. You're trying to argue that in week 17 there were clearly better QBs than Eli and over the next 4 games He perhaps somehow leapfrogged 4 guys . If you're sticking with that after what was displayed on the field then fine. I don't want to argue that point with you. If taking that stance makes you feel better fine. Knock yourself out. As far as your third point. I can't see the future. Good job by you though of completely Emila BediliaING my point. I'm a pretty good predictor of the future because I believe my eyes. And the entire message board was having this random "Elite" Discussion. There was no best in class disucssion. The problem was as soon As Eli was accepted as "Elite" the goal post moved. So there was Elite that includes Eli Manning...and then there was another class of let call them..."Super Elite" QB which Eli was universally considered inferior to. No one would have called me crazy had I said any of the Super Elite were the number QB in the league. I could say Breese, Rogers, Brady and even Big Brother and I would have gotten no flack which indicated a class differencial. Once Eli got promoted so did the 3 other guys. I said Eli was already at the head of that class and then Eli removed all doubt from the non-believers thats all. Also calling me an Eli fan doesn't help your point at all. I might be an Eli fan but this Eli fan never said Eli was the best QB in the league until he SHOWED it me. Edit: And while we're on the subject of clairvoyance. I predicted the Giants would the falcons. But since I said it before the game...I guess it doesn't count. Afterall no one said the Giants wouldn EVENTUALLY beat the falcons. Then I predicted the Giants would the Packers. But again..I did say that before the game so I guess that doesn't count...and since the Packers were favored I guess my prediction was pretty gotdammed shoddy. Then I predicted the Giants would beat the 49ers...Ya know Gumby we should have this chat before the playoffs so that I could have known to wait until after something happens to say anything about it. And finally yes....I did predict that The Giants would beat the Patriots. Again..it was a prediction..so I made the mistake of saying it before the game. My bad.</P>

1) You're asking the wrong question.* Your comment said that Eli was the best QB in the NFL.* That encompasses an entire career of work.* Not just one season or one week which your question "Who was playing the best all by week 17" implies.* But, it was arguable that Eli was not playing the best in week 17 anyway.* You* had plenty* of others in the equation.* Brees, Brady, Rodgers, etc.* In fact, most people said it was Rodgers.* I'm not putting my personal opinion in this.* I am absolutely arguing that when you said Eli was the best QB in the NFL, it was not the case in most peoples minds.* Had you said, Eli is playing the best football this season, you might not have had such a negative response.</P>

And I addressed the next 4 games issue above.* Don't treat the next 4 games as regular 4 games.* The post season*is when heroes are born and unborn.* You of all people should know this.* See #2.* So all things considered, yes, the next 4 biggest games of potentially any QBs career,* vaulted him into the elite category.</P>

But whatever, we'll agree to disagree.* It just boggles my mind that you can't see the next 4 games as completely huge to a QBs reputation and not just "another 4 games".* It was a big deal.* And big deal's change peoples minds.** On top of that, we have entire players careers to take into consideration.* Not just 2011.* The reason why I think this point is important and why I harp on it is because you use this reason to down play why people were "against" Eli at the time and why you were right all along.* I'm refuting the premise on what your "i told you so" attitude is.</P>

2) As for the whole "Goal post being moved once Eli was accepted as Elite".*To clarify this was after*the post season run.* *Now it just seems you're whining about people not thinking Eli is not THE best.* You* have to keep in mind that once a QB is accepted at a certain level, it's splitting hairs.* Just because people may not see Eli as the best, doesn't mean he isn't Elite nor seen as not worthy of his company.* It's just people's opinion.* You do not see people slamming others for saying Eli is the best QB anymore.* Because agree or not, whether Eli is the best, is seen as a worthy statement.* You can think of it as the goal post being moved, but not by very much.* Where as before this season, Eli might have been 50 yards away, he's now, if you do not think he's the best, let's say 2 yards away.* But hey, if you want to think he's the best, it's all good too.* It's like saying, do you think Dan Marino was better or Warren Moon?* I'm not sure why you take it all personal when people aren't over Eli like flies on doodoo.</P>

All this talk about seeing, and him showing you is subjective.* The blindest of haters and the blindest of homers will see different things.* So really, i don't see how it's relevant.</P>

You can predict whatever you want, I can care less.* We're talking about Eli here.</P>

Playoff games are bigger than reg season games sure. But I was able to come to a conclusion without seeing those playoff games. Should I apologize for that?

If you're position was..."Well Burier. I don't know if I agree with you. I'll have to wait and see what happens in the playoffs" Then we wouldn't have anything to say to eachother.

But that wasn't the case. People flat out disagreed with me and called my position ridiculous. I don't really understand what's so hard to follow.

I was right and you were wrong if for nothing else then being so ****y and boastfull in your dismissal of my conclusions. (And when I say you...I don't mean you gumby...but the position you're arguing)

So what I'm hearing now is "Blah blah Blah...I won't admit that I was wrong and that's final"

But deep down I think some of you know how far off base you were proven to be and there's really no need to go around in a circle with you any longer. I'll just repeat myself to refresh your memory and then you can go ahead and have the last word.

After watching 16 games I concluded that going into the playoffs Eli Manning was the best QB in the league. Subsequently Eli backed me up over a playoff run that included outduling the QB who most believed was the best at the time.

Saying well.."Eli hadn't won the Superbowl yet" is a total cop-out ...AND IRRELEVANT.

I wasn't talking about CREDENTIALS OR PERCEPTION! I was talking about who actually plays the best football on the field right now.

You say you're not a lemming but you consistently point to popular opinion as a basis. "Well if most people believe it it must be true"

Whatever...Maybe perception is reality but that has nothing to do with me. I never said..

"It is now week 17 and I believe Eli manning will now be perceived as the best QB in the league"

I NEVER SAID THAT.

What I said was...BY MY OWN EYES I BELIEVE ELI IS THE BEST!

4 games pass and suddenly by alot of other people's own eyes Eli is the best.

Regardless of the magnitude of the games they're still just games. And so far I've seen no one point to anything that Eli did during that playoff run any better than he had done during the reguar season. So to point to the playoffs is again you trying to use mass preception as some sort of crutch.

Playoff games don't need to be won for a conclusion to be drawn. I believe the Best quarterback in the league could potentially fail to make the playoffs at all in a given season.

I don't actually believe you actually believe what you're saying so I'm going to leave at that and let you take it away.

gumby742

04-11-2012, 11:12 AM

You have cause and effect all wrong. You as of that day said Eli was the best. People disagreed with you AT THAT TIME. People NEVER disputed that Eli could potentially be the best at some point in the future - which is exactly what you are saying now. So no one is correct or incorrect. Once the microphones started talking the people would also probably follow. Why? It NOT because of blind faith. But because all of us are watching exactly the same game. Thus they probably saw what the media saw. And I'm talking about giant fans who watch the giants week in and week out. Not just on Espn. Edit: let me give you an example of what you're doing. You watch some cowboy games and think to y romo is a choker. The media also watches that same set of games and comes to the same conclusion. So does that make you a lemming? I have no idea what you're talking about. The only thing I gather from you is that you believe it is impossible to give incorrect football analysis. We disagree on that point. In fact if I thought I could just back out of everything I ever said I wouldn't bother saying anything to begin with. As far as your example....Bottom line: If you allow the media to form your opinion you're a lemming. No way around it. That's what it is. I say Eli is #1 I get mocked 5 weeks later Eli wins SB MVP Silence as weeks pass (Is Eli top 5? Trending question.) Sports writer says what I already said THREE MONTHS PRIOR everyone agrees with sports writer. If you can't see how ridiculous people on this board look for that chain of events I really don't know what to tell you. Among us Giant fans, you have to be kidding yourself if you think any one of us formed our opinion of Eli based off of what the media said. It boggles my mind how you can possibly even think that. If you want to say that about other fans outside the NFC East it makes more sense. They probably only know what the media and Sportscenter show. But to us Giant fans that watch week in a week out?! Has it ever occurred to you that people just come up with the same opinion while watching the same game? I know that you're hard core Eli, but dude. Give me a break. Let me give you something to think about. Saying Eli was the best QB in the NFL in week 17 is a different situation then saying Eli is the best QB CURRENTLY/today. They are 2 completely different statements. If you understand what I just said, then you'll understand that the "i told you so game" that you're playing now, is targeting nobody. No one ever said that Eli would NEVER become the best QB. Just that he wasn't the best 6 months ago. As for calling me a lemming, let me tell you a few things. When Eli signed that big contract and most the board and the media were up in arms, I was happy with it. When Plaxico shot himself everyone wanted us to sign Edwards, I so no. When people were up in arms about Reese not resigning Smith, Boss, and cutting half our o-line, I said it was a good football move. I was one of the few that stood by Reese and almost every move. Fewell is apparently now a really good co-ordinator. I'm not buying. Cruz is a superstar. I need one more year. JPP is a superstar now also. I still want to see more before I proclaim him to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Oh and our vaunted front 4 that the media loves to rave about? Overrated. I've probably gone against the grain more then you have. Quickly let me address the lemming comment. I don't mean to say that Giants fans rely completely on the media to tell them what to think about Eli but I do think the media has an alarming infuence on some of us and its scary. You dont find it odd that the Media says something THEN the fans say the same thing damn near every time? And let me add that even after the SB I didnt hear people saying Eli was the best...It took a media out let to say it first...what do you call that??? Who decided who the best QB is? Is it decided in a media room or on the field of play? Are you suggesting that 4 games is what propelled Eli to the top of a montain he wasn't even on prior to the playoffs? The suggestion is laughable. If thats how it worked Eli would have been the reigning number 1 QB since 2008..Remember this was his second remarkable playoff run. Now what Im saying is NO I don't see the difference between Eli week 17 and Eli currently. Certainly not drastic enough a difference to go from ridicule to agreement. And thats the point. If I asked you to name the top 5 Basketball players all time and you said...Larry Bird. I may disagree...But I wouldn't laugh at you because I know Larry Bird is legitimately in the conversation. When I said Eli was the best the response was...Im ridiculous becuase Eli isn't even in the conversation. So no I don't the difference between saying Eli #1 week 17 and Eli #1 today (Considering football has been over for 2 months) and if there's a difference in Eli or any othe QB in that time period it couldn't possibly be enough to take Eli from not even being in the conversation to being one of the main components of the conversation. And even if you don't want to take responsibility for being wrong on the issue...you should at least be willing to give props to me...because at the very least ive proven to be absolutely clairvoiant. (If I say I was right...and leave the you were wrong part out...will that make you feel better?) Bottom line is Eli has gotten so much bad pub while Brady, Breese and Rogers have gotten so much great pub that people were actually brainwashed and they couldnt believe there own eyes when for the entire season Eli outplayed every QB in the league with the exception of Rogers and then outclassed Rogers in the playoffs. If you saw what I saw we would have agreed...that simple. And if not...you should be thinking...Damn...What the hell does the Burier know that I don't? Why did I hear it from him first??? 1) Lol. It took a media outlet to say it first before anyone said it? The entire message board was having the same discussion forever before that. It was happening practically every day. And at the end most people were willing to say Eli is an elite QB. Most of the threads created were by yourself and your cohorts. No one created an Eli thread to say, "Eli is an elite QB", because no one really cared. The only people that really care about where Eli stands relative to other QBs are Eli fans like yourself. 2)And during the regular season, people said he was playing like an elite QB (not the best), but they needed to see more. And the run through the playoffs solidified their hope created during his brilliant regular season. So yes, 4 games could have had that big an impact. You of all people should know. After his first SB win, you and the others were proclaiming him to be an elite QB - with his previous struggles forgotten. Don't pretend that our run to the SB was just another 4 games to you. Winning the SB is the single biggest cause of amnesia in the NFL. It's an example of "I hope" turning into "It is". When you said Eli was the best, it was too early and people weren't ready. And even now, it's still a discussion if Eli really is the best. It's NOT clear as night and day that Eli is the best. 3)How would you be clairvoyant? You didn't say Eli would eventually be the best. You said Eli was the best at a time in the past. To exaggerate to make a point, time warp back to 2004 and IF you said Eli was the best QB in the league as a rookie in 2004, would that make you correct now in saying that Eli is the best? That's exactly what you're doing. And if you do think so, then you're forgetting about all the potential wrongs that you might have been before your prediction was realized. When I was in 5th grade, I used to predict the Giants would win the SB every year. And finally, we did win one and I told my friends I told you so. lol. (Christ Gumby...We're having this back and forth...Just answer this question. By week 17 of this past seaon who was playing better than Eli? Who? If you can name some we can leave it at that and keep it moving) I don't really know what to say to you? Are you seriously arguing that in Week 17 there were QBs playing better than Eli? Because that's really what it seems like you're arguing. You're trying to argue that in week 17 there were clearly better QBs than Eli and over the next 4 games He perhaps somehow leapfrogged 4 guys . If you're sticking with that after what was displayed on the field then fine. I don't want to argue that point with you. If taking that stance makes you feel better fine. Knock yourself out. As far as your third point. I can't see the future. Good job by you though of completely Emila BediliaING my point. I'm a pretty good predictor of the future because I believe my eyes. And the entire message board was having this random "Elite" Discussion. There was no best in class disucssion. The problem was as soon As Eli was accepted as "Elite" the goal post moved. So there was Elite that includes Eli Manning...and then there was another class of let call them..."Super Elite" QB which Eli was universally considered inferior to. No one would have called me crazy had I said any of the Super Elite were the number QB in the league. I could say Breese, Rogers, Brady and even Big Brother and I would have gotten no flack which indicated a class differencial. Once Eli got promoted so did the 3 other guys. I said Eli was already at the head of that class and then Eli removed all doubt from the non-believers thats all. Also calling me an Eli fan doesn't help your point at all. I might be an Eli fan but this Eli fan never said Eli was the best QB in the league until he SHOWED it me. Edit: And while we're on the subject of clairvoyance. I predicted the Giants would the falcons. But since I said it before the game...I guess it doesn't count. Afterall no one said the Giants wouldn EVENTUALLY beat the falcons. Then I predicted the Giants would the Packers. But again..I did say that before the game so I guess that doesn't count...and since the Packers were favored I guess my prediction was pretty gotdammed shoddy. Then I predicted the Giants would beat the 49ers...Ya know Gumby we should have this chat before the playoffs so that I could have known to wait until after something happens to say anything about it. And finally yes....I did predict that The Giants would beat the Patriots. Again..it was a prediction..so I made the mistake of saying it before the game. My bad.</P>

1) You're asking the wrong question. Your comment said that Eli was the best QB in the NFL. That encompasses an entire career of work. Not just one season or one week which your question "Who was playing the best all by week 17" implies. But, it was arguable that Eli was not playing the best in week 17 anyway. You had plenty of others in the equation. Brees, Brady, Rodgers, etc. In fact, most people said it was Rodgers. I'm not putting my personal opinion in this. I am absolutely arguing that when you said Eli was the best QB in the NFL, it was not the case in most peoples minds. Had you said, Eli is playing the best football this season, you might not have had such a negative response.</P>

And I addressed the next 4 games issue above. Don't treat the next 4 games as regular 4 games. The post seasonis when heroes are born and unborn. You of all people should know this. See #2. So all things considered, yes, the next 4 biggest games of potentially any QBs career, vaulted him into the elite category.</P>

But whatever, we'll agree to disagree. It just boggles my mind that you can't see the next 4 games as completely huge to a QBs reputation and not just "another 4 games". It was a big deal. And big deal's change peoples minds. On top of that, we have entire players careers to take into consideration. Not just 2011. The reason why I think this point is important and why I harp on it is because you use this reason to down play why people were "against" Eli at the time and why you were right all along. I'm refuting the premise on what your "i told you so" attitude is.</P>

2) As for the whole "Goal post being moved once Eli was accepted as Elite".To clarify this was afterthe post season run. Now it just seems you're whining about people not thinking Eli is not THE best. You have to keep in mind that once a QB is accepted at a certain level, it's splitting hairs. Just because people may not see Eli as the best, doesn't mean he isn't Elite nor seen as not worthy of his company. It's just people's opinion. You do not see people slamming others for saying Eli is the best QB anymore. Because agree or not, whether Eli is the best, is seen as a worthy statement. You can think of it as the goal post being moved, but not by very much. Where as before this season, Eli might have been 50 yards away, he's now, if you do not think he's the best, let's say 2 yards away. But hey, if you want to think he's the best, it's all good too. It's like saying, do you think Dan Marino was better or Warren Moon? I'm not sure why you take it all personal when people aren't over Eli like flies on doodoo.</P>

All this talk about seeing, and him showing you is subjective. The blindest of haters and the blindest of homers will see different things. So really, i don't see how it's relevant.</P>

You can predict whatever you want, I can care less. We're talking about Eli here.</P>

Playoff games are bigger than reg season games sure. But I was able to come to a conclusion without seeing those playoff games. Should I apologize for that? If you're position was..."Well Burier. I don't know if I agree with you. I'll have to wait and see what happens in the playoffs" Then we wouldn't have anything to say to eachother. But that wasn't the case. People flat out disagreed with me and called my position ridiculous. I don't really understand what's so hard to follow. I was right and you were wrong if for nothing else then being so ****y and boastfull in your dismissal of my conclusions. (And when I say you...I don't mean you gumby...but the position you're arguing) So what I'm hearing now is "Blah blah Blah...I won't admit that I was wrong and that's final" But deep down I think some of you know how far off base you were proven to be and there's really no need to go around in a circle with you any longer. I'll just repeat myself to refresh your memory and then you can go ahead and have the last word. After watching 16 games I concluded that going into the playoffs Eli Manning was the best QB in the league. Subsequently Eli backed me up over a playoff run that included outduling the QB who most believed was the best at the time. Saying well.."Eli hadn't won the Superbowl yet" is a total cop-out ...AND IRRELEVANT. I wasn't talking about CREDENTIALS OR PERCEPTION! I was talking about who actually plays the best football on the field right now. You say you're not a lemming but you consistently point to popular opinion as a basis. "Well if most people believe it it must be true" Whatever...Maybe perception is reality but that has nothing to do with me. I never said.. "It is now week 17 and I believe Eli manning will now be perceived as the best QB in the league" I NEVER SAID THAT. What I said was...BY MY OWN EYES I BELIEVE ELI IS THE BEST! 4 games pass and suddenly by alot of other people's own eyes Eli is the best. Regardless of the magnitude of the games they're still just games. And so far I've seen no one point to anything that Eli did during that playoff run any better than he had done during the reguar season. So to point to the playoffs is again you trying to use mass preception as some sort of crutch. Playoff games don't need to be won for a conclusion to be drawn. I believe the Best quarterback in the league could potentially fail to make the playoffs at all in a given season. I don't actually believe you actually believe what you're saying so I'm going to leave at that and let you take it away.</P>

You said some contradictory things in your last post. But anyway, to readdress the point since it seems to have gotten lost in the shuffle - lemming calling what have you and fragmented thoughts. You seem to think that you have a right to be boastful about being right all along when it comes to Eli being the best. You some how saw things that other people didn't see. You think you were right all along. That is what we're addressing.</P>

During week 17, you saw things differently than most others. Some people needed to see Eli perform at the biggest stage again to be convinced. You didn't. All I'm saying is that don't be so convinced that others were wrong and you were right. Each person saw the same games. Everyone came up with their own conclusion.</P>

You want to be right so much, that you're essentially telling people that you know what they are/were thinking. You are sure that there are plenty of people that are swayed by the media and somehow are unable to form opinions for themselves. You demean the important of post season success to a QBs reputation. If you re-read the counter arguments in your latest post, it screams "I see only what I want to see." Like you said, by your own eyes Eli is the best and that you weren't talking about Perception or Credentials, only what you see. Funny thing about that statement is that what you are addressing isALL about perception. </P>

Not unless you think there is public perception and then your opinion which somehow is the unwritten rule. You some how know more then others. But the chances that you're the MichaelAngelo defying the world of watching football games is borderline insane.</P>

TheReal_LT

04-11-2012, 03:33 PM

The way that I see it is that after ELi won his second Superbowl and second Superbowl MVP he has nothing else to prove to anyone. No one in thier right mind should say anything negative about Eli. A matter of fact debating over Eli is not a subject that I will entertain any longer. If someone trys to come to me with smack about Eli I just hold up my hand in thier face and say talk to the hand. I care not to entertain unreasonable people any longer.

B&RWarrior

04-11-2012, 04:57 PM

actually, I should say Trent Dilfer isn't the great game manager of our time. he actually made the first catastrophic mistake with the Armstead pick six, the refs just bailed him out of it. the Giants were actually on the road to winning the war of attrition that game, and then the refs called do overs.

Eli never had a critical turnover in the super bowl runs. he has 15 TDs, 2 int in those runs, and one was off the hands of SS12. he could play both game manager and workhorse.

Thank you. Dilfer's job was to hand the ball off and throw it if somebody was wide open. They never ecouraged him not to attempt to make plays.

Eli is far from that. From day 1 we wanted him to be a playmaker. The only time he played a a "game manager" is because the defense was leaving him nothing but underneath stuff and dumpoffs. This is where Eli showed great improvement this year. He took the 3-5 yard dump off instead of trying to make the perfect downfield throw to a receiver that is clearly not open.

Difler was a sub par QB for the majority of his career. Even in his SB year his play was nothing to right home about- to be fair that was by design.