Aazealh and Walter take you to a magic place, where the dew drops cry and the cats meow.Stonehenge! Dolmens! Sonia takes on an even more important role in the story, so what does that mean for her character arc as we move forward? And how will this new traveling technique affect future developments?

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I never got the feeling that Laban was skeptical of Griffith. His statement at the state of the world when talking to Rickert wasn't aimed at Griffith in particular, and saying that he's still scared of the war demons doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't trust them.

What makes the idea of Griffith attacking Elfhlelm interesting to me is that it could end up making a large chunk of Griffith's followers disillusioned with him. What are his soldiers going to think when they're ordered to kill a bunch of harmless magical creatures who are just minding their own business? Griffith could just only take the demon army with him,but if news of his actions leaks anyway it could be disastrous for his reputation. I remember you once suggested that a dissident faction will form in Falconia at some point. This could be what starts it. Some may even try to abandon Falconia (that might not be the best idea, given the state of the world.) Maybe Laban will be one of them. And if he does, then I wonder what Owen would think. These two tend to agree on everything, so it would be interesting if a wedge were to be driven between them.

What you said about Sonia was Interesting, that she may start having doubts about Griffith after reading Guts and/or Casca's mind and seeing the eclipse, or if Griffith attacks Elfhelm. I thought she would stand with Griffith until the end, but now I'm not so sure.

I also think we'll see pseudo-apostles in Griffith's army at some point. Like you said, while apostles are powerful, they are few and very tricky to replace. What is Griffith going to do if a bunch of them get hit by the flame wheel or something? Pseudos are much easier to make than real apostles, so they make a good solution to this problem. But who would turn them? Locus? Rakshas? Maybe even Griffith himself?

I never got the feeling that Laban was skeptical of Griffith. His statement at the state of the world when talking to Rickert wasn't aimed at Griffith in particular, and saying that he's still scared of the war demons doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't trust them.

We weren't saying Raban is skeptical of Griffith in particular. He has no reason to be (yet). But he comes across about as skeptical as one could be regarding humanity's current predicament, given his position and obvious loyalty toward Griffith.

He and Owen have been the level-headed voice of reason since they were first introduced. So it seems obvious to me that of those who Miura has given a spotlight, Raban is one capable of protesting when the time comes. Instead of someone like Foss, who would swallow whole-hog the notion of a glorious new probably-not-totally-human overlord, Raban talks wistfully about the old days, and with an apparent sense of gloom that Falconia is humanity's last bastion. And in this episode, he's the one who brings Mule back to reality on a) the safety net of souls b) human-apostle relations.

I can't imagine all of these reservations are adding up to a character who dies for Griffith's cause in the end. Instead, it's like Miura is preemptively distancing the character from this way of life.

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What makes the idea of Griffith attacking Elfhlelm interesting to me is that it could end up making a large chunk of Griffith's followers disillusioned with him. What are his soldiers going to think when they're ordered to kill a bunch of harmless magical creatures who are just minding their own business? Griffith could just only take the demon army with him, but if news of his actions leaks anyway it could be disastrous for his reputation. I remember you once suggested that a dissident faction will form in Falconia at some point. This could be what starts it. Some may even try to abandon Falconia (that might not be the best idea, given the state of the world.)

The problem with this notion is that it'd be something Griffith should see coming a mile away. He's not someone who is going to be blind about how far to push his people. There'd be no reason to involve humans if he had any fear of consequence like that. Rather than simply making a bad leadership decision, I think any kind of seed for insurrection is going to have to come from the inside out, from a trusted source. Otherwise, why wouldn't he see it coming?

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Maybe Laban will be one of them. And if he does, then I wonder what Owen would think. These two tend to agree on everything, so it would be interesting if a wedge were to be driven between them.

Yeah I think we had that exact discussion just last episode actually.

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What you said about Sonia was Interesting, that she may start having doubts about Griffith after reading Guts and/or Casca's mind and seeing the eclipse, or if Griffith attacks Elfhelm. I thought she would stand with Griffith until the end, but now I'm not so sure.

Like I said on the show, I can't imagine Sonia remaining unmoved from her loyalty from the beginning of her character until the end of the story. That'd just be a boring character. She's completely invested in Griffith, to the point of it being an obvious character flaw. So where do you go with that? Force her to face the truth, because it would hurt her more than most. The fact that Miura has tied so many functions in Griffith's empire to her only solidifies this possibility in my mind. It's a foundation that's set up to fail. There are stakes for someone like her turning her back on Griffith eventually, and not nearly as many for other characters. That's just good drama.

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I also think we'll see pseudo-apostles in Griffith's army at some point. ...But who would turn them? Locus? Rakshas? Maybe even Griffith himself?

It doesn't have to be a particular one, many apostles have that capability.

You guys comment here about the fact that alot of the people that die under Griffith will end up in the vortex of souls, I thought ALL of those who are close to Apostles end up there? Even poor Vargas did... Idk if I misunderstand it though

You guys comment here about the fact that alot of the people that die under Griffith will end up in the vortex of souls, I thought ALL of those who are close to Apostles end up there?

I don't remember us mincing words about it, and I'm pretty sure I used the words: "Straight to hell."

In any case, we don't know for sure all the specifics of the afterlife, because it's come up a total of two times, and even among those two scenes, there are conflicting perspectives. Griffith said in vol 23 that the souls move on to "a place where they become one." In the very next volume, Flora talks about souls being segregated each according to their own karma (implying an alternative to the Vortex). Now, it could be that what Griffith said was contextual, and what Flora said was universal. Because of Griffith's involvement, perhaps those particular souls have no choice but to be tied to the Vortex.

As for what the God Hand said in volume 3, yeah, they very generally say that those "caught up in the affairs" of the God Hand/apostles are destined for the Vortex. But where does one draw the line in a broad statement like that? I've written about it in the past, and my conclusion is that it has to do with what Flora calls hellfire (or karmic fire). Guts and Vargas are perfect examples. Because of his brand, Guts was always going to end up in the vortex. But with Vargas, even without a brand, his life was ruined by his encounter with an apostle, and he became obsessed, warped. Hence, hellfire. I liken it to the wrecking ball effect of what happens when humans cross paths with apostles: they either die horribly or have traumatic encounters that scar their lives forever, thus whatever their life's trajectory was, it becomes warped in the direction of a haunted, terrible experience.

it could be that what Griffith said was contextual, and what Flora said was universal.

Yeah I like to believe what Griffith said was contextual, because afterwards he assures Mule that "One day you will know" and I like to believe that as a great villain moment cause he knows there's not turning back for Mule. Even though they just met Mule is clearly mesmerized by that point.

I've written about it in the past, and my conclusion is that it has to do with what Flora calls hellfire (or karmic fire). Guts and Vargas are perfect examples. Because of his brand, Guts was always going to end up in the vortex. But with Vargas, even without a brand, his life was ruined by his encounter with an apostle, and he became obsessed, warped. Hence, hellfire.

That is the best explanation I've heard so far, worthy of Miuras writing I mean. It seems very intriguing to me that what could be a terrifying idea of souls becoming one in the vortex, could easily be turned into a state of perfect and constant bliss and existence if there is a good karma vortex.

In any case, we don't know for sure all the specifics of the afterlife, because it's come up a total of two times, and even among those two scenes, there are conflicting perspectives. Griffith said in vol 23 that the souls move on to "a place where they become one." In the very next volume, Flora talks about souls being segregated each according to their own karma (implying an alternative to the Vortex). Now, it could be that what Griffith said was contextual, and what Flora said was universal.

I don't think there's a conflict. The Vortex of Souls is part of a great ocean of souls. Souls are divided according to their karma and end up in different parts of the ocean of souls, but they're still in it either way. That ocean forms mankind's collective consciousness, of which the vortex is the darker side. So I think both statements work fine with each other.

It doesn't have to be a particular one, many apostles have that capability.

I wonder if that will become a part of Falconias society at one point.If you're terminally ill, just become part of the demon soldiers and keep fighting for the good cause.

I also wonder what happens to all the Beheliths that were scattered around the world, now that most of humanity seems to be cooped up in Falconia... do you guys think there are still new Apostles born after the merging if the worlds?

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Rock Concert Manual #237:Taking the audience to a jungian journey into the collective unconscious by using the shadow as a metaphor for the primal self that gets repressed by the modern persona... and also by using an underground setting and labyrinth office design to represent both: the depths of the psyche and the dungeon-like isolation of our increasingly mechanistic society which prevents people from finding satisfying work or meaningful connections with others.

Sonia mentioning that the World Spiral Tree's branches lead under the ocean at points reminded me of Skullcast 34, where you guys joked that if the Idea of Evil were to manifest in the merged world it would probably be underwater.... Who knows, maybe there could be an encounter after all... probably still reaching though