For the most part this idea only effects Ranged and Melee combat, and this will be difficult to amend so long as Magic is predominantly weaponless (or rather, without class-specific weapons). Ideas of mine such as Conjuring and Firearms would provide Magic the equipment it requires to truly utilise this idea; but wands andto some extentstaffs will also allow it.

This update doesn't require that players interact more than they already do. In a nutshell, the entirety of the current Combat Styles panel can be found in the top and bottom line of the revised panel: the weapon name, combat level, attack styles (accessed via right click) and auto-retaliate. The special attack is the only feature to have changed (see on).

All weapons would be given a single "default" attack, likely one it's current combat styles (it's experience type can be changed via right-click). In addition, all weapons would be given the following; Between two and three perks (aka "abilities", "alternate attacks" or simply "attacks"). A circle augment slot. Between zero and two specialized augments slots.

A modification to the interface to accommodate shield slots:

This image includes some features that have yet to be explained, but read on.

Shields would be given a single slot, which isn't lost upon trade (similar to the circle slot). The shape of the shield-slot can vary (for weapons such as Anti-Dragonfire and Spirit Shields), but this for the most part this will be a standard shape.

Perks have effects, the simplest of which being an instant attack. Each perk has a cool down which takes effect when the weapon is first equip, as well as between attacks. An attack that is in cool down will be coloured red, which will slowly drain to illustrate the time left (this could also feature a number in seconds over the top)(the transition of the drain could either be a top-to-bottom drain, or a countdown/clockstyle). In case you didn't catch that, newly equip weapons won't have any available perks instantly (unless they have no cool-down) - thus, switching weapons will not bypass cool downs.

Augments too have effects, and come in two varieties: active and passive. Active effects come into effect when the icon is clicked (can be both one-off and duration based); whilst passive effects are always in effect whilst the augment is in use. "Active" effects have cool downs just like perks, and just like perks these cool downs will come into effect when the weapon is first equip (an active cool down will not effect any passive effects).

Regarding my comment at the top, the lack of special attack bar is the only part of this suggestion which impacts the current combat system (as all other features are optional). Special attacks will appear as active effects on augments (unless their effects are changed as part of the update, I reckon Excalibur's Sanctuary should have an area-of-effect passive too); removing the special attack bar. Players who use a single weapon will likely find this update beneficial, as they can use attacks more frequently; whilst players who weapon-hop will find this detrimental, as there is no global control for special attacks (and switching weapons will in fact reset any active cool downs).

Augments can be obtained as direct drops, from weapons/weapon drops and as rewards. Some augments are bound to the weapon that they are found in, such as Dragon Weapons and most existing weapons with special attacks or set-effects. A bound augment is always circular.

A weapon with customized augments cannot be traded. If dropped, any non-bound augments will be dropped loose (inadvertently this will probably be the quickest way to clear augments from an item)(non-tradeable augments won't be visible to other players). Upon being traded a weapon will lose one of it's default number of specialized augment slots (this can remove all specialized augment slots)(the circle slot is not affected by this). Hopefully, this loss can occur at the recipient's side so that players can drop and reprise their own items (such as in event of death) without damaging their weapon... although, this could be a penalty of death (and thus don't bother, just have it happen when dropped)(although this would make my dropping-to-remove comment undesirable).

The premise of slot loss is to award getting it an item for yourself without making it non-tradeable, and thus no longer worth obtaining.

It's possible that augments could have level requirements to insert, or to use. Although, ideally, the requirement to wield the weapon should be the only limitation on this system. Percentage effects would be the best solution... something such as Dragon's Rage isn't overpowered at low levels (although I'd imagine it's expensive), as it's 15%. An added pro to the slot-loss system is that, unless the low-level acquires the item themselves, the item may not have a pentagon slot in the first place.

Proposed that augments could be player-made, or at least some of them. For example, unstrung amulet could be enchanted as that to create augments. These would be circular, and thus generic/non-specific in their effects.

The image shows that Pound has recently been used. The Shunt attack, which the player is viewing, knocks the enemy back one pace, and stuns them for one second. This perk is designed to stall, and his no impact on the damage dealt (although damage dealt would still be required for the effect to activate). The player is also using the Warlock's Rage augment, which has two abilities: a passive ability that will occasionally save runes; and an active ability that will cast a free spell (with a 5 second cool down). Warlock's Rage is not bound, and can be removed and placed in another weapon.

An altercation:

This spoiler denotes a now-unused functionality. The difference in the image is the default attack, here "Bash", now "Assertive" to denote the experience type. The reason for this change was that the reasons behind it did not outweigh the predicted public outrage.

The motivation behind using only a single experience type per default attack was to create a need for unused weapons types as players would not be able to easily train all their melee-combat skills on a single weapon choice. For example, a dagger would only be useful for training Attack, whilst a battleaxe would be used to train Strength and spears still being used to train both at once. Note I said "easily train", as most weapons will feature perks that would earn experience in the other skills and so training all combat stills is still possible with one weapon (it's just not pure-friendly).

This was replaced with the ability to right-click.

In this version, Defence is unlikely to have any weapons that their default attacks are defensive (on principle)(you may disagree, admittedly I didn't think very hard here). On the fly, I could only think of four solutions (assuming that the right-click isn't used in general practice); Defensive be the only option available via right-click, perhaps even not available on all weapons. There is a toggle to enable defence, but this wouldn't allow defence-only. Defence experience from perks is substantial enough to replace the lack of defence-style, but this still doesn't allow for defence-only. Perhaps one-handed weapons may only have a maximum of two perks, and equipping a shield or secondary weapon will add an additional perk that will allow for defence experience (again, this doesn't allow for defence-only.

Boosts and Curses

I'm going for the overkill now...

An alternative with 6 affliction slots:

Affliction slots display those effects provided by consumables/allies or inflicted by enemies, rather than passive effects provided by your own equipment (such as augments and prayers).

Whilst I've jokingly used the little warrior icon to display a message, that icon could bring up a full list of personal effects (such as the Slayer Mask, etc.).

...like this!:

The strength amulet current doesn't actually provide any effects, I just grabbed a random amulet. It could, however, provide an area-of-effect strength bonus? Something like a taunt/battlecry maybe? Rally the troops!

These slots only display duration-based effects (anything which lasts for longer than the instant it was used). This will either be indefinite (so long as whatever's causing it is around) or a timer. In practical terms, the only things that aren't displayed here are boosts like Vengeance and Cure Other/Group, which activate instantly, and Blood spells, which have no lasting effect. Something such as Cure Other could have a resulting effect, "Recently Cured", which grants temporary immunity from poison (which I think potions currently do, but I'm not sure about cure spells).

A player cannot be affected by any more than there are slots available - so a player that is poisoned and diseased cannot be further afflicted. You can ignore/remove boosts by right-clicking on them, however, curses cannot be removed without appropriate action (such as an anti-poison potion). In the event that you have no available slots and someone tries to use something, there are instances where your current effects might be temporarily (or permanently) replaced. For example, temporary boosts will take precedence over passive boosts (as you'll get the passive back when it's done). This isn't normally the case for curses, as getting poisoned might be considered a safe-guard to more powerful area-of-effect curses (which wouldn't be fair).

To make things easier, most effects would be given some sort of priority rating. Also, like-effects (such as poison and specific skill boosts) would replace weaker effects. Effects such as those aforementioned generally won't stack, but this would (again) be case-by-case.

Last edited by 3mptylord on Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:09 am; edited 32 times in total

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins.

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it.

Oh, I just say "the thing is" when I'm explaining stuff... I didn't know just how knowledgeable you were, so I went for the basics. And you never actually stated explicitly that they wouldn't be replaced, and since I'm a little bit slow witted in the evenings, I got scared. Lol. But it seems to be sorted, I'm just being a bit too picky...

Ok... so I'm just getting one or two new ideas out, as well as writing what we discussed yesterday down so we don't forget them

Lunge - Pushes opponent back 1 square. Will hit with 30% extra damage if opponent cannot move backwardsChop - An instant attack with a small chance of instant damage - can remember if this was 100% rightBlock - Next move will be reduced by an amount equal to your defense levelFocus - Boosts your melee damage absorb by 10% for 20 seconds - we never agreed on times and rates, so you could change thatSmash - an instant attack equal to your strength level plus your strength bonus

And a quick idea of my own...Pummel - This is an attack option for warhammers and maces. Pretty undervalued weapons, so I thought I'd make this a stronger one - User spins round, hitting a single target for an extra 20% damage in a single combat zone, or hitting up to 3 targets for normal damage in a multicombat zone. Requires 9 squares of free space to perform, Ie there must be no obsticles within it's attack radius.

Chop - An instant attack with a small chance of instant damage - can remember if this was 100% right

I don't remember to be honest, but I have no idea what you mean by "instant damage" that's different from an instant attack.

Pummel - This is an attack option for warhammers and maces. Pretty undervalued weapons, so I thought I'd make this a stronger one - User spins round, hitting a single target for an extra 20% damage in a single combat zone, or hitting up to 3 targets for normal damage in a multicombat zone. Requires 9 squares of free space to perform, Ie there must be no obsticles within it's attack radius.

I'm not a fan of the space requirement. Does it really matter if it would hit a wall? Similar to the Golden Hammer, maybe? Perhaps it hits the personal target twice (once at the beginning and once at the end), and in multi-combat ALL surrounding targets?

――――――――――――――――

If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins.

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it.

Were I said "instant" damage, I meant increased damage. Sorry, thats my fault for not paying proper attention as I type

The idea of the space requirement is so you have to think about where you stand when you do it. You seemed to like the strategic positioning element created by the lunge attack, so here I was trying to do something like it - the idea again being that a smart player can predict and counter the effects of the move by changing their position on the battlefield

As for your ideas for extra power, I'm gonna have to disagree, I'm afraid. While I'd be open to making them a bit stronger, what you suggest makes this move stronger than most special attacks currently in the game, and even ancient magics can't target ALL targets in their damage radius - they're limited to 9. Remember this is just a perk, its not meant to be amazingly strong...

It's not really that amazing of extra power. How about the damage gets less with each subsequent hit? So in single player it's two hits... so 100% and 80% (bearing in mind it's 80% of what you would hit, not what you did hit the first time). So if you hit 5 people on the way around, 80% 60% 40% 20% 10%, all other people you hit at 5%... including the first guy?

M'yeah, over complicating things.

Not sure that's entirely useful.

Players will likely just reequip before the next attack. Also, has not much use on NPCs.

――――――――――――――――

If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins.

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it.

How can you say that's not amazing extra power???? In single way combat it's virtually as strong as a dragon dagger special - that's a special that's pretty much the sole reason people buy dragon daggers. And in multiway combat, its actually even more powerful than the special on Korasi's sword... And you wanna stick that on every mace and warhammer, right down to bronze?

As I said before, I'm open to the idea of increasing the power from what I originally suggested, but what you suggest is just too strong. You said earlier on in the discussion that special attacks would remain stronger than augments, in order to prevent them becoming burdens. You then said perks are weaker than augments. So how does it then logically follow that a perk can be stronger than a special attack, like you suggest for this one...

But anyway, the other perk. In a way, I'm glad you think it isn't useful... I'm trying to make perks that are only useful in certain situations - if you're smart. Again, it requires you to think - what if you're fighting someone using a set effect? Then you have a way to counter that set effect... What if your opponent is only using one piece of armour, or even only a weapon? Best still, what if they're not paying attention? Bear in mind that the hit you perform will technically be done after the armour is removed, so you could also get a hit in with the armour out of the way...Then again, if they are, its so easy to counter... Don't rely on set effects, keep a full inventory, or just train your reactions to re-equip as quickly as possible...Still, you're right. Little use on NPCs... Like I say, only useful in certain situations

"How can you say that's not amazing extra power"... I only meant that it's not that much more powerful than what you already suggested. By I retract that.

Okay, I'll grant you set effects (although none of them have passive abilities that are broken by not wearing them) but the whole "not paying attention" will only be useful for like the first week after this update is released... very few people will not pay attention when combat becomes interactive, even they would now because they don't have to.

If it disabled the slot for a minimum length of time I see it being more useful, but then it potentially becomes too powerful.

I'm not sure PVP and PVE should be treated as "certain situations"...

Pen and paper are out, I'm currently fixing this.:

I think I might change how a bound augment works, or rather, so it cannot cause a burden thus resting your merry head. I'm somewhat influenced by Fable 2's augment system if I'm honest, as some special/legendary weapons come with bound augments... these cannot be removed and do "burden" the weapon. However, all bound augments have unique effects that are the reason you even use that weapon... which is what I was going for by bound augments. For example "Wolf's Bane", "Silverlight", etc, stops werewolves and hits extra on demons (respectively). But, i guess, most special attacks aren't abilities...

...and then it hit me.

Special attacks should just be perks, well, in most cases. There would still be bound augments, but most special attacks are perks. It isn't lost when traded, blah, blah. Something like the Dragon Battleaxe would likely be an augment, whilst Dragon Dagger would be a perk. Existing special attacks would be case-by-case, but would fit snuggly into the new system. A special attack is a more powerful perk/an extra perk (doesn't have to be all that stronger).

An augment is an ability, and can still inflict damage, whilst a perk is an attack. This is why the Dragon Battleaxe, Excalliber, etc, would remain bound augments. Bound augments would be relative to their ease to acquire/level to use and should burden the weapon.

――――――――――――――――

If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins.

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it.

(I didn't mean to switch the side of the Shield and Affects section for each... only the bottom-right was suppose to be reversed. But that won't bug me enough, and it could work either way around. )(Some of them won't look so good in the event of no special attack. I think the top-right is the best for that.)

Anyway, special attacks can be both augment-like or perk-like, but it must be an active effect. Ditto with perks, all are active effects. Augments can be bother active and passive. A special attack does not have to be stronger than augments. There are still bound augments, which cannot be removed from the weapon - such as the Wolfbane's and Silverlight's effect.

Some weapons that currently have special attacks could be made into a bound augments, should their effect merit it - for example, Excalibur's Santuary could be either a special attack or a bound augment (should my proposed passive effect be liked), or, the weapon could come with an additional augment. And augment would actually make sense for this weapon, as the weapon can be upgraded.

――――――――――――――――

If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins.

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it.