"It's all about winning for me, and I think the Cavs are committed to doing that," he said. "But at the same time I've given myself options to this point, and like I said before, me and my team, we have a game plan that we're going to execute, and we'll see what we get."

peeker643 wrote:Rumors or not, he should be gone if he doesn't at least reach the Finals. Maybe if he doesn't win it all.

Right or wrong, and I ain't saying the Cavs lack of heart/balls/guile/whatever is in any way his fault, he as to go if they don't move forward.

His voice ain't ringing in their ears any more. Ain't no way he ain't yelling, begging and cajoling for the effort he wants to see.

But they ain't listening any more.

Again, I keep going back to Bron's developmental experiences as this is Bron's team.

This was a guy whose HS team would dust mater Dei and Oak Hill in the RS by double digits, and struggled mightily, underachieving collectively, against some meathodcal white kids from medium sized Catholic schools when the marbles were on the line, losing once and barely winning the second time.

Common themes - over deferring in the big one by Bron and a supporting cast that couldn't step up enough.

And I also get the feeling Bron likes avuncular advisors rather than in your face coaches who make a team better.

Wow. This move might make for a trump-card play against an LBJ/Phil Jackson combo in (insert city here / Chicago).

On Cal...

PRO- it's a great way to keep LBJ in town and happy if it's Ferry/Gilbert who pull the strings. CON- Calipari is a scumbag.PRO- This gets Calipari out of college basketballCON- Calipari went 72-112 w/ NJ Nets '96-'99

Again, I keep going back to Bron's developmental experiences as this is Bron's team.

This was a guy whose HS team would dust mater Dei and Oak Hill in the RS by double digits, and struggled mightily, underachieving collectively, against some meathodcal white kids from medium sized Catholic schools when the marbles were on the line, losing once and barely winning the second time.

Common themes - over deferring in the big one by Bron and a supporting cast that couldn't step up enough.

And I also get the feeling Bron likes avuncular advisors rather than in your face coaches who make a team better.

JB, the Roger Bacon team that beat SVSM had three guys who went on to play D1 in college with another attending Findlay. That team gave SVSM a good game back in December at a tournament at Kent St with one guy not playing in that contest. Kettering Alter game was pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, and SVSM was willing to play that way, as you mentioned about being passive and just getting by.

IF LBJ wants Brown gone, even if they win a title, he gone too.

"It's all about winning for me, and I think the Cavs are committed to doing that," he said. "But at the same time I've given myself options to this point, and like I said before, me and my team, we have a game plan that we're going to execute, and we'll see what we get."

Again, I keep going back to Bron's developmental experiences as this is Bron's team.

This was a guy whose HS team would dust mater Dei and Oak Hill in the RS by double digits, and struggled mightily, underachieving collectively, against some meathodcal white kids from medium sized Catholic schools when the marbles were on the line, losing once and barely winning the second time.

Common themes - over deferring in the big one by Bron and a supporting cast that couldn't step up enough.

And I also get the feeling Bron likes avuncular advisors rather than in your face coaches who make a team better.

JB, the Roger Bacon team that beat SVSM had three guys who went on to play D1 in college with another attending Findlay. That team gave SVSM a good game back in December at a tournament at Kent St with one guy not playing in that contest. Kettering Alter game was pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, and SVSM was willing to play that way, as you mentioned about being passive and just getting by.

IF LBJ wants Brown gone, even if they win a title, he gone too.

Bacon was an Ohio D 2 state champion. So I know they weren't say, Triway. Nothing for a normal team to sneeze at whatsoever.

But this was a team that was 37 - 0 and had essentially played a national schedule and at the top of the USA Today top 25. Night and day. Blowing away national powers where all 15 kids who dressed went D 1 is just not losing to Bacon.

Alter was winning at half IIRC, BTW. The margin of victory was pretty slim IIRC, too. And I saw enough stall games growing up watching CK at Joes to know that even with a stall, a focussed team with a superstar eventually turns it into a comfortable margin.

And yet there is nothing incorrect in what I wrote that you highlited and the essence remains that Bron's teams have a history of gaudy RS's and not playing at their best in the big one. Seems the same here. It maybe just dump luck similarity and mean nothing, but it is interesting to me nevertheless. To most it may jsut be the ramblimngs of a retard.

But here is my point.

Read Peeker's post after Friday about how that game might have been the seminal moment Bron embraces his inner MJ. Then on Sunday, he's dedeferring like he did vs bacon in HS. We need to see him just grab games, series, championship playoff runs by the scroat like we did Friday; every whistle blow; everyt posession; every gaame.

If he couldn't do it, it wouldn't be exasperating and frustrating.

But clearly, we know he can and is not the problem. The only problem is his mean streak to do it every night the same way, like MJ.

And he has to, becasue sadly, Mo isn't even JohnPax (speaking of Aletr HS ) .

JB, I don't disagree with you as I think LBJ has to have that moment which you make mention of. Just trying to point out, Bacon was good, real good and not the pork product. SVSM was not undefeated in either year I am sure you were at that game but here are the stats for 2002: http://www.ohsaa.org/sports/bk/boys/200 ... ults02.htm

the Alter game was mind boggling as Doug Penno was arguably the only guys Alter had who could do much and they were up five at the half.

Can we get Joe Johnson for the remainder of the playoffs?

"It's all about winning for me, and I think the Cavs are committed to doing that," he said. "But at the same time I've given myself options to this point, and like I said before, me and my team, we have a game plan that we're going to execute, and we'll see what we get."

fundamentals wrote:JB, I don't disagree with you as I think LBJ has to have that moment which you make mention of. Just trying to point out, Bacon was good, real good and not the pork product. SVSM was not undefeated in either year I am sure you were at that game but here are the stats for 2002: http://www.ohsaa.org/sports/bk/boys/200 ... ults02.htm

the Alter game was mind boggling as Doug Penno was arguably the only guys Alter had who could do much and they were up five at the half.

Can we get Joe Johnson for the remainder of the playoffs?

Good call on me confusing the years. I saw the Geroge Jr game in PA.

Our lack of a talented guard is really hampering us, but at what point do we try to get inside of Bron's head on this thing? There is a HUGE dif between that being misconstrued as criticism. Bron carries this team. I just don't quite understand why he seems so mercurial about his projected comfort level in doing so as he did on Friday. Not so much the production or being hot. Just his penchant for sometimes defreeing and others grabbing control.

This may be way off but his future is at stake here. Does he lay claim to this city forever by bringing a title to it? Does he really want that? Seems to me, that if they lose, he can say, hey my supporting cast was good but not good enough, and I am outta here. Might be a real reach in saying that but has to have crossed many minds. If they win a title, he HAS to stay here. I don't care what people say about what they think he's going to do and what he has alluded to, seems as if he wants to be able to play both sides of the fence and that's not what we as fans want him to do. I don't want to hear about his elbow, his MRI, want to see the dominating effort from game 3 all the time.

"It's all about winning for me, and I think the Cavs are committed to doing that," he said. "But at the same time I've given myself options to this point, and like I said before, me and my team, we have a game plan that we're going to execute, and we'll see what we get."

IMO LeBron likes Roker publicly to keep it all good, and b/c Roker is not a Larry Brown type and a coach who will get in his ass, on or off camera. The difference between a MB and an LB is MB is afraid to make waves in fear of scaring off LeBron and taking heat for it....IMO Larry Brown wouldn'l give a shit about a player stayin or goin. Some of LBJ's post conference comments the other night could be telling. A few things he said are the type of things that you should say off camera about the coach or game strategy, not on camera in front of the entire media.

Despite all that I think LeBron would be and advocate of MB leaving if we did not win it all this season.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

I think Donny hits the nail. It is a battle between the avuncular coach that gives you freedom and a sense of your accomplishment, and the coach who is the leader when push comes to shove, whose x's and o's are shaped by but not dictated by your star players talent.

It is a hard call either way. Like Bron's Friday MJ and Sunday 'Nique (is that fair?). One day he may see the greater good, the next he can overcome all...

"When a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with experience leaves with money and the man with money leaves with experience."

jb wrote:Keep hearing varies and sundry rumors that Roker is gonzo with a loss in this series.

Anyone else? Didn't say I heard anything credible, just noises, but wondered if we could compare notes.

The comments I've seen are from national writers and I get the feeling it isn't insider info, just the facts on the wall. Best regular season record 2 years running and if you can't get to the finals you've failed.

At this point I don't feel too strongly about MB staying or going. It comes down to who replaces him. If Calipari is the best option they should just keep Roker.

Gilbert's unending stack of $$$$$ will bring in a big name should they falter this year.

"It's all about winning for me, and I think the Cavs are committed to doing that," he said. "But at the same time I've given myself options to this point, and like I said before, me and my team, we have a game plan that we're going to execute, and we'll see what we get."

Orenthal wrote:I think Donny hits the nail. It is a battle between the avuncular coach that gives you freedom and a sense of your accomplishment, and the coach who is the leader when push comes to shove, whose x's and o's are shaped by but not dictated by your star players talent.

It is a hard call either way. Like Bron's Friday MJ and Sunday 'Nique (is that fair?). One day he may see the greater good, the next he can overcome all...

No. Nique is a HOFer and an all time great. He undisputedly took control of his team (when Theus would pass. lol. )

Bron Sunday wasn't even that really. He was a good, solid, 20 PPG player.

Unfortunately, we need MJ meets Magic.

Maybe it is neither Bron nor Brown.

Maybe the back court is just a bunh a awe ite role players and in playoff ball you need more than that. Shoot, I'd settle for Mo being Steve kerr and being more consistent from the arc and not thinking he needs to create.

Last edited by jb on Tue May 11, 2010 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

peeker643 wrote:Rumors or not, he should be gone if he doesn't at least reach the Finals. Maybe if he doesn't win it all.

Right or wrong, and I ain't saying the Cavs lack of heart/balls/guile/whatever is in any way his fault, he has to go if they don't move forward.

His voice ain't ringing in their ears any more. Ain't no way he ain't yelling, begging and cajoling for the effort he wants to see.

But they ain't listening any more.

yes but what is his fault is his shortening of the cavs rotation and taking away two of their greatest competitive advantages - their depth and their athleticism.

roker has been way too inflexible in making the appropriate in-game adjustments that create match-up problems for the opposition. instead, it's been the celtics (except in the 2nd half of game 1 and pretty much the whole of game 3) who have dictated the tempo throughout this series and have created the most matchup problems and roker seems powerless and even worse, unwilling to countermand them.

now is not the time for a coach to be stubborn and if he insists on continuing the status quo because he's the coach and the buck stops with him, well then the cavs will almost certainly lose this series and roker wil almost certainly lose his job then. hopefully mr. potatohead gets the knack though and is able to right the ship to win the series.

meanwhile, there is talk that lebron is going to guard rajon rondo tonite, which is all well and good, but if that means anthony parker will be guarding paula pierce and it allows pierce to get off the schneid though, well then i don't think that's such a good idea. however, if that means parker will have some of his minutes cut and in turn jamario moon gets more run against pierce and ray allen, well then i'm all for that.

the big question now is, can the cavs take command of the series and win game 5 tonite??? we can only hope. go cavs!!!