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Re: Pats going after season ticket holders who sell on StubHub

I am *not* a fan of this at all.

Sure, there is a contract, those PSL holders may or may not be violating it. State scalping law has nothing to do with it, that's a criminal action the Pats can't bring that type of case. Get the state to do it.

Would it not just be easier to get StubHub to require that the seat numbers and sections of tickets be entered into a system before the auction is posted. If a PSL ticket comes up, then you can either 1) set a maximum price to comply with scalping laws 2) not permit a sale if in violation of your PSL contract??? So difficult. If the pats are mad, it's cheaper for them to just maintain the system than litigate this case against StubHub (unless they have attorneys on fixed fee retainer)

My problem is how long before the government or some private party sues Google, MSN, or some other group to release web-search information? Web-based Email (gmail, hotmail)?

Re: Pats going after season ticket holders who sell on StubHub

i heard of a similar thing happening for the led zeppelin "reunion" in england that will be going down. their manager was trying to stop people who were selling tix on ebay. wish i had a link but that's what i heard on radio recently.

Re: Pats going after season ticket holders who sell on StubHub

I think that the Ravens could be the next ones to do so, now that they have a long waiting list that is almost full. The Ravens already have an "Offical" ticket broker, Tickets Now. Unsubstaniated BS removed Sorry I don't have a link for that story, but that is what I heard on another message board.

Re: Pats going after season ticket holders who sell on StubHub

It wont happen here.

If you look at your PSL agreement, there is no language that says you cant resell your tix higher than face value. That's exactly why a PSL was created -- you buy the rights to the seats and can dispose of them how you see fit as long as you follow the terms set forth in the PSL agreement. Obtaining market value for the tickets you have the rights to is perfectly fine and legal.

I went ahead and called my ticket rep and he said the same thing. There are city scalping laws but no state scalping laws. The only way you'd get into hot water is if you sold your tix to someone and they get into a fight in the stands. They track incidents by seat and section number, not by the knucklehead who gets wasted and decides to ruin it for everyone else. If you do sell on Ebay or StubHub, you have to keep that in the back of your mind.

Simply put, just no scalping in the city limits.

Last edited by HoustonRaven; 10-19-2007 at 01:57 PM.

WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.

Re: Pats going after season ticket holders who sell on StubHub

the issue here is that there was an agreement that as a season ticket holder you cannot sell above face value. It was a contract, and they have every legal right to make sure its upheld, which is why the court decided in their favor.

Now the Ravens PSL owners are in a decidedly different situation.

However, if we are arguing the normative reasons scalping is good or bad, I can tell you that as someone who's bought from scalpers its mostly bad for me.

I can immediate see the biasses of PSL owner coming out, because I'm sure there are those of you that sell off the tickets for the few games you don't "feel" like attending at profits that cover a great deal, if not more than, the cost of season tickets per year.

While thats good for you, it sucks for the rest of us.

Overall, there is plenty enough immediate demand for their not to be a secondary market i.e. scalping of tickets.

Of course, the libertarians out there are about to reply about how good markets are, but in general with events like concerts and professional sports the proprieters have an interest in making the tickets affordable to your average run of the mill fan. Scalping circumvents this.

Re: Pats going after season ticket holders who sell on StubHub

Originally Posted by ClericBlackDave

Of course, the libertarians out there are about to reply about how good markets are, but in general with events like concerts and professional sports the proprieters have an interest in making the tickets affordable to your average run of the mill fan. Scalping circumvents this.

You couldnt be more wrong.

People who run concert and sporting events generally dont have a concern on making tickets affordable, they have a concern of making the most money with whatever product they are selling. If it requires a lower price, they will lower the price but the objective is ALWAYS to get the most money out of the consumer. People are not "owed" good prices. Owners such as Mr. Bisciotti, Angelos, et all have a responsibility to make money first then make the product as afforable as possible second.

PSL's allow the every day Joe, who wants to own a slice of a team, to buy and sell the tickets they have the rights to in any manner they see fit. There isnt anything more American than that!

If you want to sell for face value, go for it. If you want to max profits, go for that too. It's all about choice, not the market.

Seems to me you're just jealous. You're obviously not a PSL owner so instead of working within the system by working hard, saving the money, getting on the list and buying PSL's, you attack the system under which they are offered, bartered and traded.

Pretty bad logic.

WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.

Re: Pats going after season ticket holders who sell on StubHub

Originally Posted by ClericBlackDave

Of course, the libertarians out there are about to reply about how good markets are, but in general with events like concerts and professional sports the proprieters have an interest in making the tickets affordable to your average run of the mill fan. Scalping circumvents this.

I disagree. Their interest is in making as much money as they can. Does a concert program really cost $80 - $100 to produce? Is that beer at the stadium costing the Ravens $8?

The Ravens raised their tickets by a minimum of 20%(I think, to lazy to look it up) last year. Was that in the interest of the run of the mill fan? In their comments on the price increase, they noted that they had reviewed the value of tix at online sites. It's all about the $$$.

Re: Pats going after season ticket holders who sell on StubHub

Anyone here study economics?

Now let start by saying I am a PSL holder, and only sell my tickets to friends if I can't go for face value or for free. That is because my Opportunity Cost for the profit of the ticket is less that the fear of losing my PSL due to some stranger misbehaving. Plus once I have the tickets they are a sunk cost anyway.

That being said, I completely understand those who sell their tickets on the open market. Let's face it the demand for tickets is way higher than the supply, this drives the value up. If you are comfortable with selling to a stranger than go ahead and cash in.

Re: Pats going after season ticket holders who sell on StubHub

Right, that's exactly why going after the secondary market is total bullshit.

Example:http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/1...ets/index.html
"The profits go to brokers, not the artists or promoters" Cry more, YOU set the prices low enough for the secondary market to function. Stop crying because you screwed up how much to charge for an event. If anything, these artists and promoters are crying because they don't know how to accurately judge demand. Or, wait, instead of selling tickets for a flat fee, have an online auction for tickets!! Highest bidder gets the ticket with the minimum set at the price charged right now. Secondary market dead. How is it this hard to be creative?

Scalping laws, if in price set limits on where you can sell, who can sell, when, how much etc.

All that needs to be done to comply with the law force the entry of ticket information into the system which then checks the state of the event, pulls the rules and then, like i said before 1) allows or disallows the auction and 2) only permits the max bid to reach the legal max.

Cubs fans are pretty notorious for trying to get around this, but paying $3k for three tickets behind home plate and a computer print out of Carlos Zambrano just doesn't make the auction primarily for the picture Cheeky bastards.

Anyhow, I completely disagree with the pats methodology, they're trying to punish their "fans" or PSL owners, rather than going after enablers. Right, it might not work "quite" as well, but suing yours fans is bad business period and people are going to resell these things anyhow, just somewhere else, or in a dark alley and not on the internet. Tape traders will ruin the music industry! please.....

Re: Pats going after season ticket holders who sell on StubHub

For one its very easy to circumvent things on ebay, If you sell, only list section and row number. Then the pats or whoever cant tell who it is selling. Im sure stubhub could say that info is private information and we cant give out who is selling the tickets.

Also yes it sucks to pay $400 for a $100 ticket to see the ravens v patriots game...BUT thats what the market asks for. If you want, buy psl's and get tickets yourself. When the team is doing good, prices go high, tickets are sold out, and people who cant get tickets complain. You see people complainig about the orioles tickets on ebay?? nope...

Its like selling your vintage car for book value even though the demand says you can get alot more for it, you sell for what people pay for it. If i put 2 hannah montana tickets on ebay right now for $10 the price would skyrocket up to $200+, is that the fault of the seller?

p.s. yes city scalping code is within 1 mile for the stadium its illegal, otherwise its fine.

Mt. Arrogance in the middle of the .11 rolling acres of The Windbag Estates

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Re: Pats going after season ticket holders who sell on StubHub

Of course, the libertarians out there are about to reply about how good markets are, . . .

As a Libertarian I can tell you I love free markets. Brokers cornering blocks of tickets and then selling them to the highest bidder is NOT a free market. It shouldn't be illegal but the people who sell the original tickets have an obligation to try and make sure the tickets go to fans and not brokers who then exploit a semi-monopoly they have.

Re: Pats going after season ticket holders who sell on StubHub

It doesnt matter if none of the tickets are sold to ticket brokers or not, the market will bear the price. There are 70,000 seats in m&t. 65,000 (estimate) are psl holders, leaving 5000 for the public sale. So even if none of them went to ticket brokers, you still have WAY too many fans that want tickets then that are available. Its just the way it is, stadiums cant sell more seats they dont have. Same with tickle me elmo's, playstation 3's, google stock at $99 3 years ago (now selling for $600+, early bird gets the worm.

Orioles tickets are easy to come buy now (unlike 10 yrs ago), go ahead and get 2 lower box seats for the orioles now, and in a few years when they are good again (HAHAHAHA) youll too can rake in the profits.

When the ravens went 6-10 a few years ago you couldnt give tickets away thier last few home games.