midwesternsmoke wrote:OVER????? How can you say that so soon?? We don't even know what went down or even what "substance" it was that showed positive. We REALLY need to give AJ the benefit of the doubt before he's tossed under the hauler here. C'mon man, don't judge so harshly so soon.

Well because I think he did a drug that he wasn't supposed to do. I mean he could have loafed and taken and gotten an Ambien prescription or something. But the chances of that are low.

If he fails this coming up drug test, Penske will fire him I will bet the house on that.

After the Mayfield thing (one of my favorite drivers) I am not willing to give the benefit of the doubt when it comes to this.

Man I bet Penske is wishing they kept Kurt now. At least he never failed a drug test.

penske isnt even giving kurt a 2nd thought, he wasnt going to keep around some one who was a cancer to the 22 and the whole penske team, and especially mouthed off to him, there are good drivers out there, kurt got what he deserves

The way the 22 has been this year I can see why Kurt was droved "mad". They are a mess.

Yeah he deserved it. And maybe they are not wishing they kept him. But that team has went down hill ever since. And now their driver fails a drug test. I would have loved to have been able to hear the conversation between Penske and Allmendinger.

i may not know a lot about racing, but penske that i do know about since his old shop was down the road from me, and had some friends that worked for him, i dont think he was in any danger of losing pennzoil for the fact, he made a deal with them to carry their oil in all his dealerships, he is in toronto for the race, so im sure come monday, he will lay into aj, and deservedly so, i personally thought aj was over ratted for nascar, like most open wheelers before him, like jpm, hornish, dario,villenuve, i wont chuck danica in there just because she hasnt driven a couple years in cup, tony is the only one to make that transition and robby gordon on a small level, it will be interesting to see what happens over the next few days if it comes out he "took" something.

1st off, I am hoping it is something innocent, like he ate something, or like Matthews did for the bears many years ago. Took something cold meds or whatever it was, that triggered the test as if he was taking something else. He had a 4 game suspension as the NFL's zero tolernce is just that. They said he should have brought it to the NFL if he wasnt sure. Hope it is a similar situation for the dinger, & not a Shane ordeal.SS14 you again compare apples to oranges. When Kurt was in the 22 he had Addington as CC not a rookie CC with a brand new driver to the organzation. The 22 ran fine. Kurts attitude, & the busch style of overdriving was the only thing keeping him from having the same success as Brad. Comparing this years 22 team to last years team & saying look at the problems Kurt had to deal with is insane.

As far as open wheel drivers, I remember when Andretti came to Nascar, I had dubbed him the spin out king. For the 1st few years he held the title strongly, but he lasted awhile, & became servicable. Nothing special, but good enough to hold his job. He is one of very few open wheelers with multiple wins (2 I think LOL) he even came from a lap down to win a race that wasnt a plate race or road course. he wasnt in top equipment by no means either when he had his success. So in a way he is one of the only successful open wheel drivers around. Even though I will always remember him as the spin out King

If the Dinger doesnt railroad himself out of the sport I can see him being like that.

Smokeshow 14, that is the most inclusive list I've ever seen. Guess I wasn't interested enough to look for it. But I take more than one of those listed medications. Do you think Emmit Haun will bar me and my cart from the Chili Bowl pits next year? LOL

AJ isn't just an overrated open wheeler. He is the most overrated driver in NASCAR. He has shown some brilliance and when he does he is amazing to watch. But other than that he can't even win a race. He is just one of those drivers that couldn't make the successful transition from open wheel to NASCAR. He is worse than Casey Mears.

As for apples to oranges. Yes the CC has changed. But other than that nothing else. Same crew members. Same issues. I am kind of playing Devil's advocate here so don't say I am sticking up for Kurt. But that 22 team had a ton of issues. They would fall off dramatically at the end of the race, have ridiculous mechanical issues as well among other things. For a past champion, that level of incompetence had to be frustrating.

So what you are saying is the best AJ could do is to be the second coming of John Andretti? A serviceable driver at best? Doesn't sound like a driver who deserves a ride at Penske.

Last edited by Smokeshow14 on Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

NascarNanaOK wrote:Smokeshow 14, that is the most inclusive list I've ever seen. Guess I wasn't interested enough to look for it. But I take more than one of those listed medications. Do you think Emmit Haun will bar me and my cart from the Chili Bowl pits next year? LOL

The ones that make me go hmm are that sleepings aids are banned. I don't understand that. Some do have weird side effects. But what if a driver has insomnia?

Smokeshow14 wrote:AJ isn't just an overrated open wheeler. He is the most overrated driver in NASCAR. He has shown some brilliance and when he does he is amazing to watch. But other than that he can't even win a race. He is just one of those drivers that couldn't make the successful transition from open wheel to NASCAR. He is worse than Casey Mears.

As for apples to oranges. Yes the CC has changed. But other than that nothing else. Same crew members. Same issues. I am kind of playing Devil's advocate here so don't say I am sticking up for Kurt. But that 22 team had a ton of issues. They would fall off dramatically at the end of the race, have ridiculous mechanical issues as well among other things. For a past champion, that level of impenitence had to be fustrating.

So what you are saying is the best AJ could do is to be the second coming of John Andretti? A serviceable driver at best? Doesn't sound like a driver who deserves a ride at Penske.

Your Right, changing a CC is a minor change to a race team. Change the CC on the #39 team & you will see a major difference on that team. Look at the 43 car as soon as they changed CCs this year. So lets see. the 22 changed from one of the best CCs to a rookie CC (growing pains). Also changed from a championship caliber Driver (when he doesnt lose his mind) to a servicable Driver. Both driver & CC new to the team at same time. Yes I would say apples to oranges!

Keep in mind I by no way aam saying the Dinger is the (Beeeeep). I also dont think he is as bad as some try to say either. I do think he was the best option Penske had at the end of last year. (thus the one year contract to prove himself)He will never be a top ten driver in cup ever.

When nothing else changes yes it can be in some circumstances. There are more issues than just the CC.

The way the media was spinning it (I know you love to say that) it sounded like AJ should have been able to break out and perform close to Kurt's level. So I would say that AJ has actually been making Kurt look good.

AJ is a guy who did not lead a lap in a season once. That is pretty bad.

And I disagree about there not being better free agents last season. Brian Vickers, David Reutimann and David Ragan were all available. But open wheelers stick together. And Vickers cost himself rides when he was being an idiot last year.

Last edited by Smokeshow14 on Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yes, we do tend to have the guilty until proven innocent mentality here. I, for one, hope it's a false positive or at least a "legal" substance. Just because he's from California doesn't make him a pot-head. I was born and raised in California and I can't stand pot. With Jeremy, he protested his innocence too much. Hopefully AJ's silence is a good sign.

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe" - Friedrich Nietzsche

Smokeshow14 wrote:When nothing else changes yes it can be in some circumstances. There are more issues than just the CC.

The way the media was spinning it (I know you love to say that) it sounded like AJ should have been able to break out and perform close to Kurt's level. So I would say that AJ has actually been making Kurt look good.

AJ is a guy who did lead a lap in a season once. That is pretty bad.

And I disagree about there not being better free agents last season. Brian Vickers, David Reutimann and David Ragan were all available. But open wheelers stick together. And Vickers cost himself rides when he was being an idiot last year.

yeah, the good ol' media! I like calling them "the so called experts" LOLLets look at your list here.I think you seen the best Ragan has when he was in the 6 car. Think Penske would want better.Rooty I think his age is fighting him here. Another servicable Driver but older.Vickers I would agree is the better driver listed here, but like you said at the end of last season he had turned off a lot of owners with his late season stuff that was going on.Dinger is a servicable driver that had potential (remember the media pushing that too). Penske signed him to a one year contract as there wasnt a lot of time when the suddeness that Kurt situation took place.I think Penske made the right move. None of us would have thought Dinger would have a drug issue the next season.

Smokeshow14 wrote:When nothing else changes yes it can be in some circumstances. There are more issues than just the CC.

The way the media was spinning it (I know you love to say that) it sounded like AJ should have been able to break out and perform close to Kurt's level. So I would say that AJ has actually been making Kurt look good.

AJ is a guy who did not lead a lap in a season once. That is pretty bad.

And I disagree about there not being better free agents last season. Brian Vickers, David Reutimann and David Ragan were all available. But open wheelers stick together. And Vickers cost himself rides when he was being an idiot last year.

yeah, the good ol' media! I like calling them "the so called experts" LOLLets look at your list here.I think you seen the best Ragan has when he was in the 6 car. Think Penske would want better.Rooty I think his age is fighting him here. Another servicable Driver but older.Vickers I would agree is the better driver listed here, but like you said at the end of last season he had turned off a lot of owners with his late season stuff that was going on.Dinger is a servicable driver that had potential (remember the media pushing that too). Penske signed him to a one year contract as there wasnt a lot of time when the suddeness that Kurt situation took place.I think Penske made the right move. None of us would have thought Dinger would have a drug issue the next season.

You may be right about Ragan. But what about Reutimann. He didn't get the ride because he is old IMO. Ragan did have a meeting with Penske and he even thought he was getting the ride.

I think it boiled down to the media pushing that AJ has potential, not being alot of time, and AJ being an open wheeler that got him the ride. And since then AJ has done his dammest to make Roger regret it.

speaking of CC's and making a difference, last nite i watched the race on race view, and for a minute after the race, it was reading AA (43) was the winner of the race, and i said to myself " wow, he came out of no where to win." of course it was wrong, but in his case mike ford has made a difference and AA has improved, just hasnt put the whole race together, i think a CC could make a difference, especially on the 39 team, they have a talented driver, just a band of misfits on the crew led by the tuna, and if ryan was lucky enough to get mike ford, he would contend for that 2nd win that he desperately needs right now..