A Song of Ice and Fire (i.e. The Game of Thrones Books) Thread* possible TV spoiler**

I didn't notice a thread for Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire series, and given the popularity of the TV show, I'd figure I'd start one. Few people I know have actually read all the books to date, so I really have no one to discuss the written series with. As good as the show is, the books are soooo much better!!

I actually find it hard to believe that anyone that hasn't read the books could even follow the TV series, but everyone seems to love it.

So, if you are into the show or the written series, please feel free to discuss here, but be aware that if you are not up to date with the books, this thread may contain MASSIVE SPOILERS for you!

I read the first book, A Game of Thrones, within a year or two of it's publication (mid 90's believe it or not) and it was the first fantasy novel I had ever read. After the prologue and the first chapter I was thoroughly hooked and the series is still my favorite fantasy epic that I have read to date. I have read LOTR and the Hobbit, the Wheel of Time, some of the Sword of Truth by Goodkind, a bunch of Salvatore's Drizzt novels, Jack Whyte's historical fiction about the start of Camelod and King Arthur, and some of Terry Brooks works, and Martins A Song of Ice and Fire is by far the best and Jordan's A Wheel of Time a somewhat close second.

Poor Robert Jordan didn't survive long enough to complete his epic, but luckily someone else picked it up and finished it for him. Given the rate at which Martin writes, I often wonder if the same fate will befall him and the series not be completed before he passes. Furthermore, I also fear that the show will catch up to the books. The show is going into season 4, which I believe will be some combo of books 3 and 4, and we are currently waiting for the release of book 6. To the best of my knowledge, the series was only supposed to be 6 books total originally, but now I think the estimate is at 7. Nonetheless I find it hard to believe that it can be completed with just 7 books, as an ending seems so far away.

Things I really like:

1. The fact that each chapter is written from the point of view of a different character. This is great, and as new characters get added, the story just gets better and better. But the fact that the readers ability to learn about Martin's world is limited by the narrative for the specific characters he writes about is brilliant. Characters you hate become characters you love, and maybe vice versa.

2. The number of important characters is almost overwhelming. As new characters are introduced, you start to wonder if you were reading about the most important ones in the beginning. The story is huge, and each book only focuses on a fraction of what is actually happening during the timeline the book covers. All you can think is, what the hell else is going on that I know nothing about...yet?

3. The fact that Martin is seemingly willing to kill off just about any character. The first book demonstrated that quite shockingly. I doubt anyone would have predicted Eddard Stark losing his head near the end of A Game of Thrones, as he appeared to be one of the most important characters in the series. It blew my mind when I read it.

4. Tyrion Lannister. His character is one of the best characters I have ever read in a book. I hope he fucks every whore in Westeros before it's all said and done.

5. The increasing nature of the fantasy element. The first book had very little fantasy in it, but as the series progresses things get more and more fantastical, and it really makes the series that much better by not suffocating the reader early on with all sorts of crazy crap you might find in a typical fantasy series.

It's a great series for sure. I never did finish Wheel of Time (only got about 2.5 books in before I needed a break) but I prefer the Sword of Truth Series.

I worry that the popularity in main stream will cause Martin to go off the rails a little (he seems a fairly unstable dude) and try to shock people rather than just continuing the great work.

I remember reading an interview with him a few years ago, where he said something to the effect of "If your audience has figured out a major plot twist before you revealed it, do you stick to it or do you change it to still have the "surprise" effect?"

I'm pretty sure I know which twist he's talking about, and I still want him to stick to it. I would never surrender the integrity of the story for simple shock value.

Ps. I love this thread, and I could talk for hours on end about the series, but I think we could use a TV show-specific thread too, so it's accessible to all.

It's a great series for sure. I never did finish Wheel of Time (only got about 2.5 books in before I needed a break) but I prefer the Sword of Truth Series.

I worry that the popularity in main stream will cause Martin to go off the rails a little (he seems a fairly unstable dude) and try to shock people rather than just continuing the great work.

My girlfriend just finished the Sword of Truth, I honestly could not get through it, but she did enjoy it very much. I think it was the extent of the Old World armies that did it for me. I always want my fantasy to be grounded a little, it has to be somewhat based in reality for certain things at least, and the populations of armies would be one of those things. I just couldn't wrap my head around how a pre-industialized society could continuously support an army of millions. Very picky for sure, but outside of that the series just didn't draw me in like the Wheel of Time and Song of Ice and Fire.

I have not finished the Wheel, but I have read the first 10-11 books. Some of the battles in that series are really crazy, and I really enjoyed the first 6-7 books. Then it slows to a snail's pace, but I have heard that the last 3-4 books are really great.

As for Martin, it would be hard to know what going off the rails would be for him. It's a very unpredictable series, but I fear that the show will catchup to him, and I have heard that if that happens he will let them continue on before the books are released. I would not be happy if that happens.

im a fan of fantasy and for me song of ice and fire is the standard now for me
sword of truth really sucked in my opinion, read the first 2 and it was a grind
wheel of time is great for the first 6, and your right it slows down and the end 3 really make up from the meandering of the middle books
a new series i would recommend is the kingkiller chronicles by patrick rothfuss