My Ithica 20 ga with full choke and slug barrells I love it I've had it for over 30 years. One fun thing to do when you are just wasting shells is to eject a spent hull in the air gun upside down then pull up and shoot it. it will toss them pretty high. I've killed about every kind of wild game in my state with this thing.

__________________Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. -Mark Twain

As to the "autotrigger" issue, as a general rule the early guns and the M&P guns don't have disconnectors. As long as you are aware of it and act accordingly, practicing the standard rules of safe gun handling there is no problem.

Older guns are 2 3/4, but new production is 3".

__________________
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."J. Cooper

Great guns, but not the most economical ones, love the design, but if you just want something to bang around, there are cheaper guns that work, Mossburg et al.

The barrels on these shotguns are not necessarily interchangable, depending on age, some are "soldered" or permanately attached to recievers, and guns made before a certain date will not allow you to have additional barrels fitted, an issue if you "like me" have one that has an odd duck barrel that does not do all you want it to do. (in my case short with a cutts compensator).

If you just want to screw around with a shotgun an 870 is much more universal and available.

I personally prefer 2 3/4" chambered 12 gauges IN PUMP ACTION SHOTGUNS - for the simple reason that when you pump the slide, the pump has to travel a distance sufficient to "clear" the shotshell, in this case this distance must be atleast longer than the fired length of the hull, and it increases in shotguns manufactured to fire longer hulls, for instance I am just over 6' tall, with corresponding wingspan an Length of Pull, but 3.5" 12 gauge guns I feel are too long between trigger and foregrip, perhaps fine for shooting ducks and geese, but I cannot use them otherwise.

A 2.75" chambered gun however I can clear the shells much more easily, and indeed, this means the foregrip fits much more comfortably. This is less of an issue in autoloaders, and a non-issue in breakaction or single shot shotguns.

As to the autotrigger, my mother almost shot my father years ago due to this phenomenon. Keep the damned finger off the damned trigger, and always point the gun in a safe direction. Guns 101.

Depending on the load, and what you want to do with it, 12 gauges vary drastically.

12 gauge is about the most variable gauge, since the majority of international shotgun shooting competitions use it, but then again so do the majority of deer hunters in states that don't allow rifles, as do the majority of bird shooters, and the majority of people screwing around.

You can buy 12 gauge loads all the way from light target designed not to recoil much so that youth target shooters can shoot all day with out bruising or pain, all the way up to max DRAM magnum loads intended to drop geese at long range with heavy weight tungsten shot, all in 12 gauge.

Easiest way to think about it is backwards compatibility. Big heavy geese/waterfowl guns that have 3.5" chambers can handle most any loading wall the way down to light target loads (but the gun is big, and heavy, and swings slow, and if an autoloader may not cycle the light loads)

Light weight upland bird hunting guns from the 1950's will not shoot heavy modern loads, don't try it, not meant for it - much more fun to carry around bird hunting however.

Depending on the load, and what you want to do with it, 12 gauges vary drastically.

12 gauge is about the most variable gauge, since the majority of international shotgun shooting competitions use it, but then again so do the majority of deer hunters in states that don't allow rifles, as do the majority of bird shooters, and the majority of people screwing around.

You can buy 12 gauge loads all the way from light target designed not to recoil much so that youth target shooters can shoot all day with out bruising or pain, all the way up to max DRAM magnum loads intended to drop geese at long range with heavy weight tungsten shot, all in 12 gauge.

Easiest way to think about it is backwards compatibility. Big heavy geese/waterfowl guns that have 3.5" chambers can handle most any loading wall the way down to light target loads (but the gun is big, and heavy, and swings slow, and if an autoloader may not cycle the light loads)

Light weight upland bird hunting guns from the 1950's will not shoot heavy modern loads, don't try it, not meant for it - much more fun to carry around bird hunting however.

Bought a 12 model 37 with a 20" deerslayer barrel and a 28" modified barrel when I was 16. Traded it for a remington 870 deluxe brushmaster. One of my greatest trade mistakes. The 37 was much smoother and faster handeling.

Great guns, but not the most economical ones, love the design, but if you just want something to bang around, there are cheaper guns that work, Mossburg et al.

The barrels on these shotguns are not necessarily interchangable, depending on age, some are "soldered" or permanately attached to recievers, and guns made before a certain date will not allow you to have additional barrels fitted, an issue if you "like me" have one that has an odd duck barrel that does not do all you want it to do. (in my case short with a cutts compensator).

If you just want to screw around with a shotgun an 870 is much more universal and available.

I personally prefer 2 3/4" chambered 12 gauges IN PUMP ACTION SHOTGUNS - for the simple reason that when you pump the slide, the pump has to travel a distance sufficient to "clear" the shotshell, in this case this distance must be atleast longer than the fired length of the hull, and it increases in shotguns manufactured to fire longer hulls, for instance I am just over 6' tall, with corresponding wingspan an Length of Pull, but 3.5" 12 gauge guns I feel are too long between trigger and foregrip, perhaps fine for shooting ducks and geese, but I cannot use them otherwise.

A 2.75" chambered gun however I can clear the shells much more easily, and indeed, this means the foregrip fits much more comfortably. This is less of an issue in autoloaders, and a non-issue in breakaction or single shot shotguns.

As to the autotrigger, my mother almost shot my father years ago due to this phenomenon. Keep the damned finger off the damned trigger, and always point the gun in a safe direction. Guns 101.

I agree to a point but a model 12 winchester or a old Ithica feels less clunky to me than a 870 or Mossburg. I have all four plus a few more pump shotguns.

__________________Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. -Mark Twain

I can tell you it was designed by John Browning and is the US longest running production shotgun. They made millions of them.

The original design was sold to Remington and resulted in the model 17. Only produced from 1921 to 1933 in 20 gauge. A real feather weight and I have one.

Remington decided to shut down this model in 1933. Ithica decided to produce it, geared up and then found the patent did not expire until 1937. Hence the model designation and when the first guns were produced.

While a little off topic, I guess we're discussing various pumps and the virtues or demerits of each. About 4 years back I picked up a Benelli SuperNova in 12/3.5" It was on sale and while I don't recall the exact price, think it was in the $450 range. I bought it to have as a spare, when my son visited from out-of-state for example, but primarily for turkey hunting. I didn't have a gun that handled the big 3.5" Roman candle-like shells. The gun is definitely big, and not real light although not too bad. But it shoots great, we've even used it for trap and sporting clays a few times.....with standard 2.75" target loads. The pump stroke is a little long, but again, not a real big deal. For an all around field gun, I'm actually quite impressed with it for the money.

While a little off topic, I guess we're discussing various pumps and the virtues or demerits of each. About 4 years back I picked up a Benelli SuperNova in 12/3.5" It was on sale and while I don't recall the exact price, think it was in the $450 range. I bought it to have as a spare, when my son visited from out-of-state for example, but primarily for turkey hunting. I didn't have a gun that handled the big 3.5" Roman candle-like shells. The gun is definitely big, and not real light although not too bad. But it shoots great, we've even used it for trap and sporting clays a few times.....with standard 2.75" target loads. The pump stroke is a little long, but again, not a real big deal. For an all around field gun, I'm actually quite impressed with it for the money.

+1 (though mine is the regular nova in 3.5")

I understand you can vitrually do anything with the 2.75" shells, but I like the idea that if I need ammo for whatever reason I can use any 12ga shell I find.