The scene: After a hard-fought prospects game at one of the many preseason tournaments sprouting up across North America, a progressive coach brings a player into his office to discuss the fighting major the player earned the night before in the second period of a 5-1 hockey game.

"Oh, hey, it's good to see you showed up. I wanted to call you in here with regards to that fight that you had last night in our prospects game.

Listen, I don't know who told you that the best way to get noticed during these tournaments is to stand up for either yourself or your teammates, but it isn't. Our scouting staff have spend hours watching you and, while we may not have drafted you this past spring, it by no means indicates that we don't know much about you.

We invited you to this camp so that we could test you out in a few game situations under our control and see how you handle them. One of those isn't fighting, trust me. You don't have to prove anything. We know how hard you work already.

Look, you're a good hockey player. I've seen some of your game tape from junior hockey, and there's a lot of good things that you can do, and trust me, we're looking. We know how hard you've worked to make it this far in hockey, and you definitely don't need to prove it to us. Particularly by doing something as dangerous as fighting; I was nearly sick to my stomach last night watching you scrap and I'm relieved that you and the guy on the other team you fought came out unscatched, but let's not toy with fate.

I don't want to connect the dangers of fighting to some of the tragic deaths we've seen over the past two summers because in all those terrible cases there were outside influences factor in, but that doesn't mean that this organization takes them lightly. Hockey is already a fast, dangerous, violent game that can hurt you in many different ways and we don't want to add to that list on dangerous, violent things in this sport, particularly with something that this organization doesn't feel has a tangible impact on the game.

You may think that you're turning the momentum in the game, but, trust me, we've done a bit of research. For all the examples you can find of a player overcoming an opponent in fisticuffs and motivating his team to score a goal and come back to win the hockey game, we can find just as many examples of times it didn't work.

In the end, while I appreciate that you want to show how hard you've worked, I'd feel a lot better if you showed me in other ways. Win puck battles, create scoring chances, or even do something as simple as set up an offensive zone faceoff—really, our coaching staff and video analysts are looking at all these things when we evaluate our players. We want to see you do things on the ice that we think can help us win the hockey game, and we don't want to see you taking part in a sideshow when we don't know the full effects of the toll fighting can take on a player, particularly one so young as yourself."

Cam Charron is a BC hockey fan that writes about hockey on many different websites including this one.

The point is is that these games are largely meaningless. It is an unacceptable risk to have your prospect fighting in a meaningless game. For most of these guys there is little chance they start the season in the NHL, why risk an injury in an exhibition game?

Sorry, but the prospects game is a proper place for fighting. Reasons:

1) It beats fighting with your own team mates in training camp - or perhaps you don't want it there either. I guess we can just see if Cam Abney is ready for NHL fighting when he drops the flippers with SMac or other veteran in pre season ("Oops, I guess not, sorry you got destroyed").

2)You have to practice fighting just like anything else. Here, prospects are fighting prospects of approximately the same age and experience

3)its part of the game. Part of what teams want to find out is how their younger skilled guys (say from Europe) are going to fare in the heavy going. Is our fiesty Finn just going to yap when the gloves are taped on or is he going to still play his game when someone might slug him a few times?

The prospects games are part of the evaluation process for these teams. They are not some kind of all star game.

1). I'd rather Cam Abney be ready to play as a hockey player in the NHL, rather than be ready as a fighter. Having the latter without the former has little actual value. Not only that, but he's got a full season in the AHL to prove he can fight men.

2). I'm not sure how that makes them anymore ready to take on the experienced pros. Isn't it just more of what they are already used to?

3). Granted, but in a prospects game like this, why not put a rule in place where if you fight you are done from the game? That way if there is a legitimate reason to fight they guy still will (i.e. defend the teammate), but it prevents the sideshow fights from happening because the game is 6-0.

I don't have an issue with fighting in terms of as a tool to try and protect. If one of your good players is getting pushed around and punched in the face, go after that guy, get him off the ice for 5+minutes.

Why are all of you people fighting over fighting ? It's here, been here for a very long time ... And until somebody drops dead in an NHL game due to fighting it won't go away .
What's next no flying in hockey ??

I'd rather Cam Abney be ready to play as a hockey player in the NHL, rather than be ready as a fighter. Having the latter without the former has little actual value. Not only that, but he's got a full season in the AHL to prove he can fight men.
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I don't want players fighting in training camp.
The point is is that these games are largely meaningless. It is an unacceptable risk to have your prospect fighting in a meaningless game. For most of these guys there is little chance they start the season in the NHL, why risk an injury in an exhibition game?

What happens when you are trying to decide if an Abney should play in the AHL, ECHL or go back to junior?

The logical conclusion to your argument is that they don't need the prospect game at all. They saw RNH play last year and will have this year to watch him - why bother?

Further, should we then outlaw hits - especially when its 6-0, as they increase the chance of injury?

If you want no fighting in hockey, fine. There are some good arguments for that position. I could do without the staged stuff. But to start saying to teams and players that you can have it here but not there is unfair to both.

Until you see Abney fighting with guys closer and closer to his ultimate weight division, you don't really know if he has the technique and strength needed to excel.

From that article, Mixed results on Instigator, overwhelming results for not banning fights.

"Still, it's a jolt to an assumption I've long held, especially considering 98 per cent of the same group of players voted "no" when asked if fighting should be banned in the NHL."

98% of polled players think Fighting is part of the game.

I know what it says Arch. Once I found the article I was able to read it. I didn't want to edit the contents of my original post after the fact to make it seem like I was covering up my inital recollection.

So you are what 24? Fresh out of university. I'm happy you landed such a sweet writing gig here at the nation... but I'm not sure you are in any position to come across all wise and all knowing when it comes to the way hockey is and should be played considering its doubtfull you ever have. while you where busy working at your school news paper these kids where training their asses off for a shot at the bigs and if fighting is going to get these kids a six figure contract, who sir are you to tell them that they shouldn't?

I think there a full range of issues in hockey. You cannot just point at the fighters. There may be personal issues that lead some to fight - one of the few venues where I guy can do that without getting into trouble with the law. But you cannot say all fighters have problems, nor do all players that have problems go on to be fighters. Patrick O'Sullivan, something happened to him. I'm not sure what the details are, but I think we all know it has affected his ability to step up and be a star player. He is not a fighter.

Most of these hockey players were seperated from their families in their early teens. Maybe the isolation from their family leads to coping problems for some? Some were exposed to bad people. Think Fleury or Mike Danton. Some of these kids have their families looking to leech money off of them. A Lindsay Lohan effect.

There are a range of problems, unique to each player. I think the various hockey leagues and the PA can step up and try to take better care of these kids. A helpline or something like that to help identify any issue.

Personally i dont think it is a "weak" argument but you sir are welcome to your opinion. Second what Cam is doing,using an imaginary conversation instead of a real argument in an attempt to stir up hits for his article, by using a topic which people like you and me are deeply opinionated for or against.

"An eye for an eye leaves the entire world blind."
- Mahatma Gandhi
"But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also."
- Matthew 5:39

It does say quite a lot about the character of someone that can turn the other cheek.

However, we're talking hockey and not suggesting that they turn the other cheek. The suggestion is that they not needlessly fight for THREE games.

At no point did i to tell Cam "how to write",
and if thats how it came across, I'm sorry as i am in no way qualified to tell a writer how to write. My intention was to point out that certain feelings and opinions may not be shared in regards to fighting by people who have and haven't played.

I also probably came across overly harsh as this is the second article from Cam that feels more like an attempt to stir up hits than really prove a point. Hey we are all just people with our own opinions and we all have the right to voice them.

1). I'd rather Cam Abney be ready to play as a hockey player in the NHL, rather than be ready as a fighter. Having the latter without the former has little actual value. Not only that, but he's got a full season in the AHL to prove he can fight men.

2). I'm not sure how that makes them anymore ready to take on the experienced pros. Isn't it just more of what they are already used to?

3). Granted, but in a prospects game like this, why not put a rule in place where if you fight you are done from the game? That way if there is a legitimate reason to fight they guy still will (i.e. defend the teammate), but it prevents the sideshow fights from happening because the game is 6-0.

I don't have an issue with fighting in terms of as a tool to try and protect. If one of your good players is getting pushed around and punched in the face, go after that guy, get him off the ice for 5+minutes.

But that's not what the fights last night were about.

Cam Abney will never be ready to play as a hockey player in the NHL. He might as well practice his fighting, because he's pretty terrible at everything else.

What I am doing is offering my opinion about Hockey... Not judging him on his punctuation.
As someone who has been in and around the game my whole life I think that may give me the right to voice an opinion.

Nothing kills me more than the argument that RNH should go back to juniour. It was argued before he took one shift in Oiler silks. By the time training camp is over we'll have RNH reapeating Kindergarten.

Although I appreciate Cam's writing here and his attempt to make this "progressive" hockey coach sound quite smart, if this conversation ever took place at all in real life, it would be something as simple as this:

"Don't effin' fight, OK? It ain't worth your trouble and we're not going to give you a job just because you can fight, OK."

And that's it. If you saw last year's Oil Change series, you saw that the conversationsb between coaches and players tend to be short and they'll be even shorter between coaches and prospects.

As for removing fighting from pre-season rookie tournaments, dream on. Heck, the rookie tournaments are the one place where I'd expect to see more fighting not less.

Think about it: If you're a guy who can fight a lot and play a little and they're dangling a shot at a $65,000US AHL or ECHL contract at you when you don't have anything else lined up, of course you'll fight for it.

And if that tryout could lead to one of those half-million-dollar contracts ... well, you'll fight some more.

Adam huxley came to camp a few years ago won his fights (beat the hell out of peckem) and himself a contrac (he ended up in the echl and then ahl). On some players fighting is what teams care about and knowing how even the talented ones can do is also important

Use to love watching 2 big bruisers go at it. But now not so much. I love a good hockey fight, but fighting for the sake of fighting? Fights shouldnt happen in the first period, 3rd most likely after 40 minutes+ when two guys have been battling all game and finally one cant take anymore crap from the other. Just not a fan of two guys from the drop of the puck, going at it.

Fighting serves no purpose in the league as far as the game goes. I agree with Cam that it never sways momentum in any teams direction anybody who believes otherwise is entitled to their opinion but I would call B.S. on that.

Secondly I am a fan of proffesional fighting, mainly the UFC. If I wish to watch fighting i will do it there. Thats where the worlds best fighters end up and I have yet to see a hockey player on the pay per view card. (correct me if i'm wrong)

Watching mediocre fighters duke it out in a hockey game no longer interests me as others have mentioned previously as well. When I was a child/teenager it sure did seem a lot more exciting but since those years the fighters have failed to impress me with their fighting skills and for the most part their skills in the game of hockey.

I think the instigator rule needs to be taken out so they can fight properly and reinforce the respect of the players.
I don't mind a heavyweight bout, but letting them police themselves a bit more could serve to make it safer out there.
Without fighting, there's no consequence.

as far as RNH goes i will reserve my judgement till he plays with big boys. i like to bring this into conversation because 1)Arch and finally agree on something , and 2) there are so many people foolishly hell bent on, without reservation sending him to juniors. time will tell.

I bet you know the proper time to use a semi-colon as well. Well, sir, I do not; and that's a fact!*

*Or do I actually remember those dark and mysterious lessons from Frances Aleba's English 101 class...**

**Turns out, no. I do not. But I kept the textbook, so in a bind I can still figure it out.

I just had to give you props for the shout out to Frances Aleba. One of my favorite professors ever and the person I credit most for my interest in the English language.

I still remember the first class when he (as he always did) so passionately remark that "words and language are POWER! If you are able to command the english language, you command POWER!"

Tough not to be excited with such a passionate professor.

...Oh ya.. fighting...

Last year I had a change of heart. I was in the "you can't ban fighting, it's part of the game!," and the "this is part of the pussification of the world" camp. Then I watched MacIntyre all last year. Man, is that guy ever a bad NHL player! His fights were brutal too. He had the one good one against Ivanins where it was part of the show (battle of Alberta, 1st game in the "new culture," etc...) and I cheered.

As the season went on though, I thought the staged fights were useless. Every. Single. One. They added nothing to the game.

That being said, the fights I can agree with are the emotional ones. Taylor Hall fighting because he is tired of a guy bein a dick, or Gagner fighting for the same reasons. Those are the fights that change momentum, not the staged fights. I go get another beer when those come on.

Im sorry but that was a completely useless article. Players realise they have to fight to get noticed. Last night the Oil had an invite player (Schmidt) and he fought and got noticed. Think an undrafted defensive defensemen is going to get noticed on skill alone?

There will always be fighting and it has to be in the game cause it is the nature of the game. If you get noticed early on and are willing to fight in meaningless games the coaches and managment will see what kind of player you are.

I think the more fighting in pre season for players on the cusp of making there pro team is alot better than a player being an injury call up in the middle of the season and doing something stupid to get noticed (like jumping a star player on the other team)

Fighting is what sets hockey apart and what makes the atheletes some of the toughest in pro sports. I think hockey should stop trying to conform to what everyone outside of hockey wants it to be and let it have the traditional aspect to it like every other sport in the world. I dont see Soccer or Rugby changing anything and it has been around alot longer than hockey

Physical intimidation has and still is an integral part of hockey . Even with fighting and head shots removed from game , they can/will find other ways to intimidate and wear off emotions . Unfortuneately that will probably mean more stickwork ,etc.. No one thing will do everything by itself . One thing that will never work is leaving it up to the players !! A dangerous play rule might be best avenue to start from , which frowns upon players targeting vulnerable areas of body . Maybe a good penalty for targeting a dangerous play infraction would be to have player have to hug and kiss his opponent for forgiveness . That embarrasssment just might work to curtail some of that injurious unwanted play .

The staged fight is still better than watching your star players getting beat to a pulp or run at by big goons , etc. that frequently happens still . Star rules i am for , just like quarterback rules in football ! Not like all the stars are Iginlas or Ovechkins .

One thing being overlooked here is that these games are not "meaningless". These kids have 2 or 3 games to make an impact on management. If fighting a guy tonight, gets me in the lineup tomorrow, you better believe I am going to fight when asked.

Adam huxley came to camp a few years ago won his fights (beat the hell out of peckem) and himself a contrac (he ended up in the echl and then ahl). On some players fighting is what teams care about and knowing how even the talented ones can do is also important

And how many NHL games does Adam Huxley have? It's fantastic that he's managed to find a career but it served almost no point for the Oilers.

Finding careers for goons is probably the last thing these camps should accomplish.

I fully understand why the players are doing it, but I think the point is that the teams shouldn't encourage it.