From what scant material I've read on this, and from what AJ has said, apparently the Black community in the US was thriving and self-sustaining before forced integration. Has anyone else read about this?

freeman

09-19-2005, 08:28 PM

Self-sustaining maybe, but never thriving.
Probably the negoro baseball leagues would be the best analogy. Black America had no problem sustaining its own professional baseball teams -- in many instances as good or better than their white counterparts -- but the sophistication and amenities were hardly comparable. For instance, statisticians and records keepers were largely nonexistent in the black leagues, so it is difficult to engage in real statistical analysis. There were also even black newspapers, black-owned businesses, nightclubs and even black professionals educated in the negro colleges. Of course, the clientele was completely segregated.
The Jim Crowe laws were supposed to establish a "separate but equal" standard for black and white Americans, but it was definitely a two-tiered society. Then again, there wasn't the dependency and crime that the welfare state has fostered. And it is abosolutely true that there was a healthy, self-sustaining if not prosperous black economy. Maybe if Alex is judging by relative terms, i. e., that the standard of living was lower in the black community so that less wealth was necessary to attain the same genral standard of living, but I think that might even be a bit of a stretch...

09-19-2005, 08:50 PM

"Then again, there wasn't the dependency and crime that the welfare state has fostered. And it is abosolutely true that there was a healthy, self-sustaining if not prosperous black economy."

They survive through crime and drugs because this is, most times, the only options availabe to them.

The trap was set generations ago.

You adapt to your environment.

and

their environment has been created for them.

Man-made or natural disaster???

Thumper

09-19-2005, 09:28 PM

freeman wrote:
Self-sustaining maybe, but never thriving.
Probably the negoro baseball leagues would be the best analogy. Black America had no problem sustaining its own professional baseball teams -- in many instances as good or better than their white counterparts -- but the sophistication and amenities were hardly comparable. For instance, statisticians and records keepers were largely nonexistent in the black leagues, so it is difficult to engage in real statistical analysis. There were also even black newspapers, black-owned businesses, nightclubs and even black professionals educated in the negro colleges. Of course, the clientele was completely segregated.
The Jim Crowe laws were supposed to establish a "separate but equal" standard for black and white Americans, but it was definitely a two-tiered society. Then again, there wasn't the dependency and crime that the welfare state has fostered. And it is abosolutely true that there was a healthy, self-sustaining if not prosperous black economy. Maybe if Alex is judging by relative terms, i. e., that the standard of living was lower in the black community so that less wealth was necessary to attain the same genral standard of living, but I think that might even be a bit of a stretch...yes but the point seems to be that both sides were better off. It was flawed, yes, but the framework of capitalism assumes we have a level playing field across the population. When you forcibly integrate two or more groups, where some are better at things than others and vice-versa (i.e. asian students dominating the comp sci deparments, and blacks in athletics) it seems to leave 'gaps' in society, and I think that's where criminality fills the void.

freeman

09-19-2005, 09:44 PM

Yes, Thumper, from that point of view both sides were better off.
I'm hedging here, because this topic reminds me of some the thinly-disguised racist propaganda that Limbaugh and other rightwing pundits propagate; in their case, they only want to degrade the social welfare system as a failed invention of the political left and depict black people as lazy and morally weak for succumbing to the welfare state.
Actually, it didn't fail from an informed New World Order perspective. The social welfare system undermined whatever independence and security existed within Black American subculture. That's what it was intended to do from the start, to keep blacks and other minorities from ever evolving a socioeconomic power base of their own. All that leftwing hype about helping people out of poverty was just a lot of disingenuous soft soap.

09-19-2005, 09:51 PM

The African-American community was forcibly integrated into the predominately "white" public education system in 70's?

Other than this, what other forced integration occurred that would be the cause for their decline?

freeman

09-19-2005, 09:52 PM

Other than this, what other forced integration occurred that would be the cause for their decline?

Affirmative action.

Thumper

09-20-2005, 12:46 AM

freeman wrote:
Yes, Thumper, from that point of view both sides were better off.
I'm hedging here, because this topic reminds me of some the thinly-disguised racist propaganda that Limbaugh and other rightwing pundits propagate; in their case, they only want to degrade the social welfare system as a failed invention of the political left and depict black people as lazy and morally weak for succumbing to the welfare state.
Actually, it didn't fail from an informed New World Order perspective. The social welfare system undermined whatever independence and security existed within Black American subculture. That's what it was intended to do from the start, to keep blacks and other minorities from ever evolving a socioeconomic power base of their own. All that leftwing hype about helping people out of poverty was just a lot of disingenuous soft soap.You're right, both sides have it wrong. The right comes to the conclusion that blacks are incorrigibly lazy, while the left thinks they are helpless.

The CIA pumping drugs into their neighbourhoods doesn't help much either.

The native community in Canada is being destroyed in the exact same way. :-(