Danielle Currier & Larry Volk, authors of No Plastic Sleeves

Friday, April 09 by Angela Kryhul,

Guest Interviewer Angela Kryhul speaks
with Danielle Currier and Larry Volk, authors of No Plastic Sleeves: The Complete
Portfolio Guide for Photographers and Designers. Published by Focal Press, this
new book is a step-by-step guide for artists who want to develop and express their
brand in portfolios and other promotional materials. Danielle Currier is an Associate
Professor of Design and Larry Volk is an Associate Professor of Photography in the
School of Visual and Performing Arts at Endicott College in Beverly, Massachusetts.

How a printed portfolio complements other promotional pieces and an online presence

How to objectively evaluate and edit one's own work

Ideas for creating promotional pieces that are simple, affordable and engaging

Interview Transcript

This is an edited transcript of Angela Kryhul's interview with Danielle Currier
and Larry Volk, authors of No Plastic Sleeves: The Complete Portfolio Guide for
Photographers and Designers, published by Focal Press.

Angela Kryhul:

Welcome, Larry and Danielle. Let's start with the very interesting name of your
book, No Plastic Sleeves. How did you come up with that? Is there a story behind
your choice of title?

Larry Volk:

Well, yeah. That was essentially a demand put on our students - who are in our portfolio
class - that a binder with plastic sleeves, which held printed examples of their
work, was not going to be adequate... that they needed to move beyond that and develop
something that was much more reflective of their abilities as both designers and
photographers. So, essentially, "No Plastic Sleeves" meant no pre-made binder.

Danielle Currier:

And one of the things that we discuss in the book, and certainly discuss with our
own students, is the idea that you sort of take a stand - you make a statement.
And in our case, with the book title, it might perhaps be a little controversial.
You know, there are certainly folks out there who still really believe that a store-bought
plastic sleeve binder is acceptable. Given our approach and our process, it made
sense to us to really advocate that people think through and create their own books...
to put ourselves out there and take a stand...

Larry:

I may add that, just as we advocate in our book for individuals to develop a brand,
develop a sense of identity, No Plastic Sleeves became our brand essentially.

Danielle:

Yeah, absolutely.

Angela:

Okay. Let's talk a little bit about why you wrote the book. Can you describe the
need that you saw in the market for this kind of resource?

Danielle:

The approach we took really came out of this portfolio course that Larry just mentioned,
and that he and I worked together to develop over a number of years and reshape.
And in doing so, we really found that there wasn't a book out there that focused
on the entire process. And the way that we think about that is sort of the very
beginning process of evaluating and editing your work, and then thinking about brand
and concepts, and then carrying that all the way through to all the particular pieces
of a portfolio package: your book as well as website and other pieces.

We found there were some great resources out there for very particular topics within
that, but not really something that guided you through a step-by-step approach.
One of the things we found is there are a lot of great resource books that have
wonderful images of examples, but they don't necessarily talk you through how to
get to that end result. So, we wanted to really make sure that we provided that
kind of information and took that approach with this book.

Larry:

One of the main deficits we saw in the other resources was the problem of concepting
and designing. It's not a simple thing to make a portfolio book and then extend
that into the other complementary materials - we found that that was often the most
difficult part of the process when teaching. And when we looked for resources, there
weren't a lot of resources that help guide you through that. And so, this is where
we saw a need and we saw a need within our own teaching as well.

Angela:

Would you say, then, that the printed portfolio is the centerpiece of a photographer's
professional, promotional material?

Larry:

Well, I think there are a lot of varying opinions about that. What I would say now
is that a printed portfolio is certainly necessary but... it's well understood that
you need an online presence and you might need complimentary pieces that are either
direct mail or leave-behinds. I think where a printed portfolio fits in is that
it represents a comprehensive statement that's been put together. It also becomes
an expression of craft. You know, crafting and putting together a whole portfolio
really shows the photographer's ability to envision an idea. So, I think it's part
of a number of pieces because certainly electronic forms play a big role in marketing
and self-promotion.

Danielle:

Yeah. You know, it's an interesting question and, certainly from our own experiences
and in talking with a number of professionals both within our own experiences for
the book and then ongoing for myself with the [noplasticsleeves.com] website. You
know, it's something that I continue to ask and almost always get the same answer...
that, certainly, you have to have an online presence. You really have to have a
website and have your portfolio up - that's probably going to reach a greater audience.
But that printed portfolio is still this really important part. It's something you
take with you to an interview, or you might drop off with a potential client or
employer and then pick up at another time. So, it's almost like it's the closer.
You know, it's something that you come in with that can really impress. And certainly,
it serves a different function than a website.

Angela:

Okay, I wanted to go back to some of the comments you made earlier about the market
for the book... who did you write this book for? Is it for photographers who are just
starting out? Is it for established artists or artists who do specific types of
work?

Danielle:

Well, I think, generally speaking, [the answer is] in the title of the book: "The
Complete Portfolio Guide for Photographers and Designers." So, our audience is both
photographers and designers, for this book. And while we do speak to specific professions
within the book, we do have an approach that I think is relevant for both photographers
and designers. In fact, some of the feedback we've gotten - that's been really positive
- is that, to some degree, it's great for designers to actually think about and
see the perspective through a photographer's eyes, and then vice versa for a photographer
to think a little bit more about things like typography, that might concern a designer
more specifically. So, with that range in mind, with a fine line, we did approach
the book for students, for young professionals. But I think it's the type of book
that even if you're an established professional, and you're sort of thinking about
your marketing materials and perhaps re-branding yourself or reaching a new marketplace...
or just freshening up what you're doing and thinking about how you can be a little
bit more innovative perhaps with your promotional materials... this is could be
a great book for [you] as well.

Larry:

The way the book is designed, someone can access the book at different places. So,
if someone is an established photographer who has begun to create a brand and visual
identity for themselves, they may want to revisit their actual book and possibly
even their website. Within the book they can look at [how] some of the design fundamentals
are presented or even ideas of picture relationships or some of the aspects of website
design that they might want to reconsider and then build out from what they already
have. On the other hand, for someone who's just entering the market or a student
who's finishing school, they may start at the beginning of the process where they're
really trying to conceive a visual identity and a sense of brand and a presentation
having never done that before. So, there's enough flexibility in the way the book
is written that it enables people at different levels to approach the material and
take what they need from it.

Danielle:

Yeah. And I will say that it's not a book for someone that doesn't have any experience
within their own practice whether that's a photographic or design practice. So,
you know, we assumed that there was a foundation level of knowledge and may essentially
remind or provide some advice at certain points but, you know, we did approach it
so that you were continuing with some of your already established skills and ideas
and ability to concept.

Angela:

And as you just described, the book can take the reader - if they so choose to use
the resource in this way - step-by-step through the process of developing a complete
and interconnected portfolio package. And that begins with objectively evaluating
and editing one's work. Can you give me a sense of how difficult is it for commercial
artists to get through that first step of self-evaluation? And how does the book
guide them through that process?

Larry:

Well, I think that's actually one of the biggest hurdles: to have a range of work
and be looking at it and trying to figure out, "Well, how am I going to organize
this and how am I going to present this?" This is why the book actually starts with
Brand, Audience, Goals. You really want to start with "who are you trying to reach?"
What do you want to say about yourself when you reach them? And from there how would
that be represented through the pieces that you choose in addition to the particular
design and form of your materials in your book, et cetera. So, we really start with
thinking a bit about who you are - even if you're established - who you are as a
designer or photographer in your business and where you're trying to get to. So,
it really starts with what the goals are and then from there, trying to look through
the work and decide what best represents you. And it's usually the most difficult
part of the process.

Danielle:

Yeah, it is a difficult process to be self-critical and to evaluate yourself and
your body of work. I think the difficulty level is really going to depend on the
individual and how much of a critical eye they have and how objective they can be
about their work. One of the things we stressed is that you get the opinions of
other people whom you trust... who you work with professionally. For students... [get
feedback from] faculties, certainly, and perhaps even other students and colleagues
or people they've worked with in internships and such because I think it's important
to get some feedback that certainly would be a little bit more objective.

We as artists, any kind of artist, we tend to be really passionate about what we're
doing and sometimes that means we kind of hold our work a little too close. So,
you know, folks that you're going to trust and who know a little bit about the marketplace
and the industry that you're trying to get into.

Angela:

The book really, you know, takes you by the hand. You go through step-by-step and
it strikes me whether this book is really meant for do-it-yourselfers, you know,
photographers and designers who will come up with the design concepts and do all
of the execution themselves. Is that what it's meant for? Or can this book be used
with another professional like a designer who help take you through?

Danielle:

There certainly is a focus on do-it-yourselfers, and we really wanted to give people
a means to be able to concept and design and construct their own book, and then
carry that through to their website and other materials. We believe that the book
can be a lot more than just a simple and often generic container for your work.
So, to think about that as a well thought-out and impeccably crafted creative statement
puts a lot of onus on the individual. So, I think that there is a place for creatives
to work with other people that perhaps have a specialty, whether that's in bookbinding
or whether that's in website development; it's really difficult in this day and
age to be able to do everything and do everything really well.

Larry:

And sometimes it's just a matter of having some access to the basic concepts that
will enable them to work more effectively with someone that they're contracting
with, or look at some of the packaging, the pre-templated sites for example, and
decide what's going to best suit their needs. And so, even if, you know, as Danielle
kind of reiterated, even if you're not going to be crafting something yourself,
you're going to have a much better place and basis from which to discuss this with
either the service or the individual who's going to be doing this for you. And I
think that basic knowledge is extremely useful because it's just going to get you
further along to what you need to best represent you.

Angela:

Danielle, you created the companion website NoPlasticSleeves.com. Let's talk a little
bit about what's on the site and how the book and the site are meant to work together.

Danielle:

The idea for the site began as an extension to the book, something that could continue
to offer examples of portfolios and promotional work as well as resources and additional
articles and interviews, and also to engage the community - to provide a place where
the community could submit their own work, to share with others, and add their own
comments and such. And you know, I feel fortunate that it's been able to do that.
And I think that it has sort of grown into its own thing at this point. It's currently
getting over 10,000 visitors a week and it's pretty active and, you know, I've been
really fortunate to get such a positive response from people in the field. There
are a lot of sites that show really great work. What I try to do is really limit
it to specifically promotional and portfolio work.

Angela:

When I looked at the quality of the work that's being shown on the website, some
of the pieces look elaborate or expensive to me and I'm wondering whether your book
is meant for photographers to help them create just one or two really special portfolio
pieces or books that they can mail to a limited number of select potential clients...
or [one] book that they can take with them to an interview?

Larry:

Well, I think that the actual ideas within the book can apply to both the situations.
I think ultimately a photographer's going to probably have a well-developed portfolio
that they're going to bring with them when meeting with specific clients or getting
that opportunity to show. But what we really emphasize is that the very same characteristics
and the very same thinking and particularly the visual identity should carry over
into small select pieces. And in fact, one doesn't necessarily have to build a complete
book. One can build small pieces that are sent out. But the idea is to have consistency
within all the pieces, and so I think the book is oriented towards doing both of
those things: having small, select pieces directed to a targeted audience as well
as comprehensive book.

Danielle:

I've seen student work that's really been amazing and innovative and well crafted
and constructed on very limited budgets. So, you know, I think that you can make
something that is certainly as fabulous and it's going to well represent you without
spending a lot of money. And that may mean that you make a limited number of those
[pieces]. A number of the folks in the industry that we interviewed... they actually
said there was something really nice about having something that was a "limited
addition" - that felt more special, that felt like there was this time and care
and effort that went into it. But that said a lot about the person, that they were
passionate about their field and that really cared about what they were making.
So, you know, I think that you can spend a lot of money and make some great work,
but I don't think that you necessarily have to do that.

Angela:

Actually, on the topic of budget, do you have a guideline or a sense as to how much
money artists should spend on their physical and online portfolios?

Larry:

Well, what I was going to add was that the printing tools that both photographers
and designers have access to now work very well and can actually allow them to affordably
develop portfolio materials and promotional materials without paying for another
service. I mean, on average, if you're building your own portfolio book and printing
it yourself, you probably can produce something for as cheaply as $50 to $60. But
it easily can extend to more than that depending on the materials you want to use.
I think there's a lot of range, and the cost of it is sometimes a function of the
kinds of papers and such you want to use. But even the most basic, high quality
photographic printing paper - a basic mat paper which is relatively affordable -
you know, it actually produces a very good image and can represent the work of a
photographer designer very well at a fairly low cost.

So, at $50 to $60, you can produce a really nice book. You can produce small things
for much less that might be one-off pieces. If one goes to an online service, those
services vary both in quality and cost - and we discuss that in the book - and from
anywhere from as little as $12 to $15 all the way to $40 to $50 for a hardbound
version of a portfolio, those can be produced by a commercial online printer or
a one-off printer. So, again they're pretty reasonable these days.

Danielle:

I think when we're talking about website portfolios as well that there's certainly
is a range. It's fairly inexpensive to purchase your own domain name and to get
some server space and to work with let's say, a blog structure and even purchase
a zine for that, and sort of do that yourself. To do something that's more advanced...
if you don't have those technical capabilities, then you would have to work with
someone who does and that can definitely get a little bit more costly. But there
are certainly other alternatives such as readily available templates that you can
use, and I think do a little bit of customization with so that you can certainly
connect your online site to your print portfolio and make sure that you have sort
of this cohesive package that's going to represent you and be memorable. So, there
is a range of solutions, and one of the things that we did try to do in the book
is to present that range not only for your particular skill level but also for your
budget.

Angela:

And creating and updating a portfolio is also a time investment. How often should
a photographer or a designer update their print portfolio, and is there a way to
measure the return on investment for the money and the time that they're putting
into creating those portfolios?

Larry:

I think that's a difficult question and out in the blogosphere where photographers
are exchanging lots of information. This question often comes... "what should I expect
in return on my meeting with an art director or an art buyer?" And the truth is
that the reality for most in the industry is that the percentages for one-time meetings
are pretty low and it's often repeat meetings and repeat mailings and repeat contacts
that generate the most work. And sometimes the turnaround can be a year or a year-and-a-half.
So, it's a difficult thing to scale if photographers frequently try and figure out
"what am I getting from what I'm developing?" I think, though, that a photographer
who's trying to make regular contact may be updating their portfolio at least every
six months, particularly if they're getting a second opportunity to send it out
or meet with someone.

And certainly, they should be trying to send out new materials and particularly
with electronic systems such as online presentations. They can be making regular
updates, keeping people apprised of what they're doing and then sending out the
book or bringing the book with less frequency. So, it may be that you update your
portfolio once or twice a year but your electronic forms can be updated regularly
because that's lower cost.

Danielle:

A number of photographers also create particular bodies of work. So, you know, a
portfolio of work that represents a particular direction and targets their clients
a little bit more carefully in that regard. That can work a little bit more successfully
as well. You know, I think it's important to produce something that is going to
remain memorable and is going to sort of grab someone's attention. It's just like
anything else. There's a lot of competition and so even when you're thinking about
a promotional - a postcard that you're going to send out - a lot of that stuff just
gets tossed.

So, I think part of the return on investment is making decisions that are going
to get a response from someone who is really interested in a particular area and
expertise that you have. So, to show that you have a special skill or to show why
you might be a little bit different from everybody else, I think is key.

Larry:

I think one of the things, too, is that art directors and art buyers and creative
directors routinely can get up to a hundred different e-mails sent to them in a
given day. And the reality is that, frequently, they don't get to them or they have
so many that they ignore them. So, I think Danielle's point about - and we talked
a little bit about this - about trying to be more targeted and if you can, choose
who you're sending to... can be one way to sort of break through. The other is in
terms of, not necessarily quality of the material and expense but the quality of
your choice of imagery, quality of the design of the piece you send. Even if it's
a postcard, it's going to help differentiate you.

Danielle:

Yeah and if it's meant as a promotional piece that someone could keep, send something
that they're going to want to keep around. I just had a photographer send me a piece
for the website - it's a printed image that he sends out to potential clients. But
he also includes stickers with that. You can put the stickers on the printed image
and, you know, it can say different things and you can kind of make your own collage
with it. Certainly, that's a little bit more fun and is not as likely to get tossed.

Larry:

Yeah, we had another photographer whose campaign we included in the book and what
accompanied that were these small buttons that he made. He reported that the buttons
were the most popular thing. I'm not sure if he was suggesting that they weren't
interested in his images, but he got a big response out of this one additional item
that probably didn't cost him very much to make.

Angela:

So, you're really only limited by your imagination. I wonder then what are the essential
pieces that an artist must have in their promotional toolbox, their professional
material toolbox, and how do they work together?

Danielle:

Well, certainly a comprehensive portfolio package and when I say that I mean you
have all these interrelated and interconnected pieces. It should include a website,
certainly, and your book as well as your resume, your CV, perhaps a cover letter,
materials - business card materials, promotional materials to get someone to actually
be interested to look at your portfolio. So, there really are a number of pieces
and again, to emphasize that they should really function cohesively. You're putting
out a message about yourself. And in any kind of brand, whether it's a literal brand
identity or whether it's something that's much more loose than that, certainly it
should have a consistent and positive and memorable message about yourself and really
interconnect those pieces.

Larry:

Photographers are now creating blogs that allow them to talk about current projects
and essentially update clients and other people that they're interested in targeting,
with what they're up to in their work. And they can feature images and text. But
again, all of that should be consistent with the other materials they produce.

Angela:

Okay, in your experience then, what are the three biggest mistakes photographers
and designers make with their portfolios?

Danielle:

I would say the first is that they don't make them individual enough. We've seen
so many portfolios that essentially look the same. And they may be very well crafted
and have great bodies of work in them but the fact is there are a lot of people
who have great work. So, you have to think in terms of a step beyond that, and I
think creating a portfolio that captures you in some way. It captures you in a way
that is a little bit more innovative and is a little bit more specific, can resonate
with people. And I'd say that that's probably the biggest issue - that idea of brand
and self-awareness of your own brand.

Larry:

I think a mistake that photographers often make is not really considering the whole
body of images they're presenting, and what I mean by that is how to really sequence
them and put them together to make a statement that shows an understanding of flow
and organization and paying attention how one image can lead to another. I think
sometimes photographers fall in that trap of just falling back on their strong single
images and they don't really put together that whole package from the sense of organization,
sequence, image relationships, the statement that it makes.

I mean, photographers produce lots of work, and so if you create a printed portfolio
book, there's going to be a limit or a cap on how many pieces you're going to put
in there. We recommend 15 to 20, maybe up to 25 - otherwise, you're going to have
a voluminous book. Oftentimes, when we get to the online presentation, photographers
have dozens and dozens of images and what happens is the message gets lost. So,
I find that to be a major issue, where you don't get a clear sense of a photographer
because you've looked at so many images you start to lose the thread.

Danielle:

One of the things that I really love in interfaces online is the ability to sort
of pop up a menu and select something but then to have that menu hide and to sort
of disappear so there may be a little tab letting me know that there's a menu there,
but to really allow the space online to present your images in an uncluttered way
while, at the same time, allowing you easy access to get to other stuff that you
might be interested in.

Angela:

And finally, can you describe the best portfolio that you've ever seen and why it
came across that way?

Danielle:

That's a big question. Wow. Well, you know, in general, the best portfolios I come
across, they encourage me to look again and to want more. They usually do that by
showing me something that I really haven't seen before or showing to me something
that - in some cases - I have seen before but they're just doing it really, really
well.

One of the pieces recently that I featured on the [NoPlasticSleeves.com] site is
a promotional piece by a photographer Michael Winokur. He is a do-it-yourselfer
and he created a promotional piece that he gave away as a Holiday gift. It's essentially
a pinhole camera. He put the kit together; he put his own custom images and stickers
on these cameras and packaged them with his own sort of visual imagery and visual
identity, and sent these out as gifts. And certainly, he says that it was a labor-intensive
process. It was sort of a labor of love in creating these pieces and giving them
away to select clients and also, he says, the special "dream" clients. I found that
to be a piece that really caught my attention and certainly there's been positive
feedback from other folks on the website about that piece as well.

There was another piece that I featured recently on the site by Danielle Kroll,
who is a recent graduate of the Tyler School of Art. Her portfolio is essentially
fabric swatches that she printed on, and she wanted to communicate that she's a
designer as well as a printmaker. It was constructed beautifully and actually won
the How Promotion Design best of show award this past year, in 2009. And that was
another piece. It was unexpected. It was unexpected to see the material used in
the way that she did.

Larry:

One of the pieces we received recently was from photographer Allison Smith. She's
actually in our book, and she basically releases a zine on a regular basis that
is a series of images. And what's nice about this is it's a good example of something
that's very inexpensively produced: they're center-stapled, folded pages. And I
think she's slowly upped the production value a little bit... but initially they were
just very simply printed. It's an ongoing series and what happens is you start to
recall the body as you get more of these.

The idea of an ongoing project - such as a zine - that's sent out regularly... it
has the material value, it's nice to receive these things, they're well thought
out, they're small, they're intimate. I think that's another thing. In this case,
these are scaled, you know, they're very small little booklets but they trade on
a very simple notion like the zine, except it's a photo zine. We really like those
and each one is different. Sometimes she's had an illustrator draw a cover for her...

Danielle:

Yeah.

Larry:

But it turns out one of [the No Plastic Sleeves] featured portfolios ... another illustrator,
turns out he had actually done a cover I believe.

Danielle:

He did. He collaborated with her on a cover. So, I think that overall, you can tell
when someone loves what they do. And pours that passion into, not only their client
work but also their own promotional work and their own portfolio work. And you know,
that's just captivating and that's engaging, and that kind of energy makes people
want to work with them. And those are the kinds of pieces that I get excited about
and I think that are things that other people do as well.

Angela:

Okay, Larry, Danielle, thank you so much for speaking with me today.

Danielle:

Thank you.

Larry:

Thank you very much.

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