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Well ..."our" KJ is probably very busy finishing up the new MP manuals at te moment in time for the Messe. Seems the FP' s need some more competition. I'm curious what will materialize from Kawai, Yamaha, Korg coming week. Roland has been underwhelming so far...

And perhaps Roland kept a secret product update for the show itself (Fantom series long overdue).

But it could very well be all wishful thinking...hardware development doesn't seem to provide many surprises any more these days. Just slow - small incremental steps. Only surprising new boy in town is VPC1 in the Kawai family.

And perhaps PX5S will do a lot in the stage portable range - however tried PX150/ 350 and 850 today and I wasn't very impressed coming from Roland, Kurzweil, Kawai and previously the old Korg (with Yamaha keybed). Biggest advantage is weight. AP doesn't impress me despite all the AIR marketing talk. The keys are not bad , but really no match for the better Rolands , Yammies and Kawais. Pitty they don't have the PX5 on display yet. Would love to compare it to the other Casio's. Keys seem to vary in sturdiness depending on the cabinet they are in. Px850 felt much more sturdy and better than the same (?) keybed in the PX150 - which wobbles and clicks too much - perhaps due to the light, thin and cheap plastic case it is in.

@James: CS series is very nice by the way. Unfortunately just a 'little' bit above my budget. Especially CS10 - beautiful...

Well , delivery is still 13 weeks off (according to sites) and there's no manual yet, so we have to guess about that. My feeling says it's probably the same as the FP7F in terms of effects (and almost everything else). Improvements really seem to be only SN EP's , speakers and "Airplay" . No new AP , no 256 polyphony , no other fancy things to brag about. The FP7F was a good product, the FP-80 probably still is, but it doesn't impress in the list of improvements / changes / additions so far. Few extra sounds here, some design tweaks there and the rest mostly marketing talk. For new buyers just fine. For FP7F owners I see hardly any reason to upgrade...

It looks very similar to the FP-7F, except that you can adjust modulation speed for (presumably) existing non-selectable effects on certain tones. That is a small but welcome improvement, although a depth control would be more useful, IMO.

The Piano Designer, Rotary, EQ and Ambience (Reverb???) effects seem to be very similar to those in the 7F.

Quote:

I recall that the FP-7F wasn't terribly flexible in this regard - no options to select different effects etc.

To put it mildly...

_________________________"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

You know, I really liked the FP-7F as a home instrument. I could live with its minor sonic shortcomings because the PHAIII action connected so well with the SN sound engine. I sold it recently partly because I couldn't abide its EPs, and partly because the lack of editable or controllable effects (for non AP sounds) was extremely limiting.

Going back to the Nord Piano gave me what I needed in one package (although I had to purchase new speakers). But despite the beautiful Fazioli and Bosendorfer samples, the NP can't compete with the seamless way the SN engine translates velocity information. I'd love another Roland SN product, but am doubtful as to whether the FP-80 has sufficient to make it worth it for me.

_________________________"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

Why, why why???Why can't the keyboard industry take it's consumers a little more serious?I mean, come on, if you are a musician who performs every so often, then you should know what's going on.

Roland: " The convenient rear-panel jack lets you connect an external mic and sing along with your performance..."Who would really hook up a microphone (with a 1/4 inch jack) to his keyboard in a live situation. Isn't it quite clear that that is truly unprofessional - it is not a home karaoke system. At least put then an XLR input in the machine (with phantom power and a gain knob - I guess it would be asking for too much).

Roland: "The Acoustic Projection sound system is useful for personal monitoring on large stages, and is suitable for primary amplification in intimate venues. "Now wouldn't that be nice. That is what I have always wished for. And then all they give you is a Stereo-Mini-Phone-Type input??? I don't want to hook up my cell phone or iPad or what ever. I want to input (preferably a symmetric) signal from a mixing board, sound interface, or monitoring system. I could then still hook up my phone if necessary.

Roland: "OUTPUT (L/MONO, R) jacks: 1/4-inch phone type"Do I have to schlepp DI-boxes around for the rest of my life?

Roland: "Connectors: …USB COMPUTER port: USB Type B" Presumably only MIDI. My British 2008 masterkeyboard-synth with a built-in audio-interface for 250,- could offer more with its semi-professional A/D D/A converters. Cheesh, it's 2013!!! And this is a ROLAND!!! Give me the piano sounds over USB to my DAW. And vice versa, my DAW to the piano (speakers / outputs …)

Alright, I'm gonna stop nagging. I just had to let my steam out. I really do love Roland. My first synth is a Roland from 1986 and it never needed repairs. Same with my DP from 1988 (some minor repairs to be done by myself). I just wished they (the manufacturers) would stop bringing out unripe products, especially if the technology is there and it is affordable. On one side they claim to bring out "professional" products and yet, some aspects are just sooo cheap. Yes, I would even pay more, but just give it to me.

I wonder if the these companies actually ever read these mostly good arguments and innovative ideas from the users in this forum. (Yes, I know Kawai does.... thanks 2 KJ)

It kills me that the FP-80 (and previous FP-7F) is superior to the FP-505 in many ways (more adjustments in the touch sensitivity, adjustable stretch tuning, Piano Designer, etc); it's very similar to the HP-507. The only advantage of the HP-505 seems to be the cabinet, speakers, and better "Ivory Feel" key surface - and it's $1000 more expensive!

I've been planing to buy an HP-505, but I'm really considering waiting for this instead. I could supplement the sound with a subwoofer if need be.

Yep, specifically the Ab & A a +5 and 6th above middle C. It's on the 700NX with the Concert grand but not the Studio grand-very strange. That was a deal breaker for me with that board, I can't believe they missed that.

I see these comments quite regularly and feel always inclined to add my experience.

I don't hear this "metallic clanking" and nor has anybody else I have spoken to.

But the timbre of certain notes in the mid range changes quickly to a piercing, thin metallic character. The change is not linear with increasing velocity and frankly the result is not musical to my ears. And because not all notes are affected it fails to be a "characteristic" of the SN pianos but is a downright fault in my view. If it were all notes then certain adjustments with touch curves might largely address the behaviour but when it is just a cluster of notes there is nothing satisfactory that can be done.

But if you like it then I'm very happy for you because the SN-equipped Rolands are exceptional in many other respects.

When I was shopping DP's I noticed something similar to what EssBrace was talking about when trying the FP7F. I cant quite explain it, but I posted "... The Roland SN piano is very good for the most part, however, still can hear some sort of odd ringing tone around and above middle C. Almost distracting while playing some different pieces. Was able to edit sound and touch to help it a bit. I must admit I even heard that tinny ringing sound even in the RD700nx too."

When I was shopping DP's I noticed something similar to what EssBrace was talking about when trying the FP7F. I cant quite explain it, but I posted "... The Roland SN piano is very good for the most part, however, still can hear some sort of odd ringing tone around and above middle C. Almost distracting while playing some different pieces. Was able to edit sound and touch to help it a bit. I must admit I even heard that tinny ringing sound even in the RD700nx too."

Yes, I have owned a RD 700 NX since August 2011 and have no problem with it.I am learning Puccini's, "O Mio Babbino Caro" at the moment, many A flats above middle C, indeed, it starts with three repeats, but I hear no problem.

I have yet to hear it demonstrated anywhere as a "fault", You Tube for example, where the cut-off problem was shown well.

But there you go, as I say. 2 sides to every story.

BTW, I could probably write 2 sides of A4 on the things I dislike about this piano, but I would buy another one if I lost this.Still the best out there, for me.

A guy who works in my local music store tried the FP-80 when the Roland rep stopped by a couple of weeks ago. He was very impressed with the new speakers. Otherwise no noticeable difference from FP7-F (according to him).

There estmated delivery dates shift like ebb and flood. I suspect they do that for all newly introduced products , just to lure people into buying (and then waiting...).

Seen it before.

But hope you're right, since the earlier they are in the hands of customers , the sooner we'll get some user reports. For me I wonder if the Studio Grand is onboard and if the PHAIII in the FP80 is a bit less thumpy, perhaps due to other cabinet design. Wishful thinking, I know...

Hi Cmin, have you tried the ES7? Might want to rethink the Roland purchase. If you can; compare feature to feature, then action, and then sound - especially with headphones. You might be pleasantly surprised and save a little money.

With all due respect - Roland SN and Kawai PHI are very different. You may or may not like the character of one or the other, but technically the SN piano is better in the decay / sustain phase than PHI in the ES7. You will hear that especially in the higher regions (high notes) ; they die out more quickly on the Kawai. Nothing to the disadvantage of the Kawai (I like Kawai - which is no secret), but you will have to try them both and decide for yourself - SN AP's and EP's are really good IMHO and if you want to throw extra money at it - Roland is a save choice as well.

And YES , they ES and FP7F / FP80 are very much alike, with the ES offering the most interesting price / feature ratio. At least here in Europe - in the US it's more expensive for some reason.

Other differences - ES7 has better speakers, better EP's, 256 voice polyphony and a more quiet keybed than FP7F; but the FP80 might have closed the gap in terms of speakers and EP's (SN). If the FP80 keybed is still as 'thumpy' remains to be seen. Both keybeds are very good to play (PHI-III vs RH II). Furthermore Roland has a larger display, more sounds and assignable pedal inputs (expression possible - not on ES7), but the ES7 has a nicer optional stand and 3-pedal set. The Roland mic input and harmonizer I see more as a gimmick...

We'll know more about the FP-80 this week, with Musik Messe ; hope someone can find out how good the speakers , keybed and sounds really are, or if it's really for 99% just an FP7F in a new package.

but technically the SN piano is better in the decay / sustain phase than PHI in the ES7.

True that SN and PHI are different, but but decay /sustain can be adjusted nicely with VT.

Originally Posted By: JFP

but the FP80 might have closed the gap in terms of speaker.

I am very curious about the speakers. This is not ES7 best feature, but still pretty good. If the FP80's speakers get rave reviews i would "consider" looking into Roland. However, Im still not a big SN fan - might just be my ears, as im also one those guys that hears that "...dreaded metallic clanking mid range"