Our inquiry into this family
line will proceed in three steps: (1) examine the early men from whom Sir John claimed descent; (2) review the bottom of the
family which may have been known to Sir John either personally or by family memories passed down to him; and (3) look
at the middle generations by which Sir John sought to attach the early men to his known ancestors, these men known to him
only by references he found in public documents and extant pedigree manuscripts.

THE EARLY MEN

The top of the pedigree
cast by Sir John Wynn begins with Owain Gwynedd, king of Gwynedd and eldest son of Gruffudd ap Cynan:

1100
Owain Gwynedd, ob 1170

l

1135
Rhodri, ob 1195

l

1165
Thomas

l

1195
Caradog

l ?

Gruffudd

While there are independent medieval
citations which confirm that Thomas ap Rhodri had a son called Caradog[1], none exist which link Gruffudd ap Caradog to him.
Every source which mentions this Gruffudd ends his ancestry with Caradog[2].

In an earlier paper[3], we showed
that the Caradog ap Thomas in the Gwydir pedigree must have been born c. 1170 as a man of Powys, not Gwynedd, and suggested
the father of Thomas might have been Henry ap Cadwgan ap Bleddyn. The Thomas ap Rhodri to whom Sir John Wynn attached
his ancestors occurs a full generation too late and must be rejected as his ancestor.

Gruffudd ap Caradog in the Gwydir
pedigree would occur c. 1205 and is cited as married to Lleuci ferch Llywarch
Fychan ap Llywarch Goch of Rhos[4]. We date that marriage as follows:

1020 Llywarch Hwlbwrch*

l

1055 Llywarch Goch**

l

1085 Cynan

l

1115 Iorwerth

l

1150 Llywarch Goch

l

1180 Llywarch Fychan Caradog 1170

l
l

1215 Lleuci========Gruffudd 1205

* He was
an officer at the court of King Gruffudd ap Llewelyn, ob 1063

** Omitted from
Bartrum's charts, but he shows a missing generation between Lleuci and Llywarch Hwlbwrch. Many sources mention a Llywarch
Goch ap Llywarch Hwlbwrch, but all then confuse him with the later Llywarch Goch who was father to Llywarch Fychan.

Lleuci ferch Llywarch
Fychan apparently held a manor in Ysgeibion, Ceinmarch which was later inherited by her son, Dafydd ap Gruffudd who was
born c. 1235. It was during the lifetime of this Dafydd when Edward I conquered Wales and brought in his own men to
rule it. Henry Lacy was named Lord of Denbigh; to construct his castle, he took possession of many acres of land surrounding
the site and gave the evicted homeowners tracts of land in distant parts of his lordship. Dafydd received two manors
in Rhos, one in the parish of Llanrwst and the other in Eglwys-bach, both located in the commote of Uwch Dulas[5].

The pedigree material presents
another chronological problem following Dafydd ap Gruffudd. He is assigned three sons called Hywel, Dafydd Chwith and
Maredudd, men who are named in the 1334 Survey of the Honor of Denbigh as landowners in Uwch Dulas[6]. Nothing
more is known of Maredudd, but Hywel ap Dafydd ap Gruffudd is cited as having married Efa ferch Ieuan ap Hywel ap Maredudd
of Eifionydd[7], a lady born c. 1280. Dafydd Chwith ap Dafydd married twice, with both ladies born c. 1300/1305[8].
One immediately suspects that the Hywel and Dafydd Chwith to whom these marriages belong were not brothers. Descendants
of both men appear to confirm they were born a generation apart. The following chart depicts a reasonable construction
of the family timeline:

1205 Gruffudd

l

1235 Dafydd(a)

____________________l____________

l
l

1270 Hywel(b)
1265 Dafydd(c)

______________________l________

l l
l

1295 Dafydd Chwith(d) Maredudd(d) 1300
Hywel(d)

(a) The Dafydd whose manor in Ceinmarch
was traded for two manors in Uwch Dulas, Rhos

(b) The Hywel ap Dafydd who married Efa
ferch Ieuan of Eifionydd

(c) This man is missing from the citations,
but matches up chronologically with the "Dafydd ap Gruffudd" who married Efa ferch Gruffudd Fychan of Eifionydd

(d) The brothers and sons of Dafydd holding
land in Rhos in 1334

We believe the c. 1235 Dafydd ap Gruffudd
not only had two sons (Hywel and Dafydd) but that both sons married Eifionydd heiresses. The pedigrees say that Dafydd
ap Gruffudd married Efa ferch Gruffudd ap Gruffudd Fychan ap Moreiddig of Efionydd[9], but we believe that marriage belongs
to Dafydd ap Dafydd ap Gruffudd of c. 1265 and further suggest the "Moreiddig" in the citation is a copyist's distortion of
"Maredudd". No Moreiddig is otherwise known to any extant pedigree manuscripts and Bartrum assigned him as "unknown"[10].

The commote of Efionydd was among
the holdings of Collwyn ap Tangno, and we believe the following chart depicts the two ladies who married the sons of Dafydd
ap Gruffudd:

(b) This Efa inherited lands
in Penyfed Parish called Clenennau and Bryncir

Dadydd ap Dafydd, the eldest
son, received the two Rhos manors. Why neither went to his brother Hywel is not known.[11] We have already
met the three sons of Dafydd ap Dafydd; it was Dafydd Chwith who inherited the Rhos manors, while Hywel received his
mother's Efionydd lands at Clenennau and Bryncir. Nothing more is known of their brother, Maredudd. Hywel ap Dafydd
ap Gruffudd had, among others, a son Maredudd born c. 1305, who inheirited his mother's lands in Cefn-y-fan and Gesail Gyfarch,
Eifionydd.

The difficulty in keeping these two
cousin lines in Eifionydd separate is compounded by both favoring a small number of male names for their sons.
The next couple of generation will illustrate this point:

1265 Dafydd
1270 Hywel

______________l_______
l

l l
l

1295 Dafydd Chwith 1300
Hywel 1305 Maredudd

l
l
l

1330 Hywel
1335 Maredudd 1335 Ieuan

l
l
l

1365 Dafydd
1365 Ieuan 1365 Maredudd

(Llanrwsrt)
(Clenennau) (Gesail Gyfarch)

Rhos
Efionydd Efionydd

THE CONTEMPORARY MEN

Sir John Wynn was born
in 1553 and died in 1627. Said to be "a man of great abilities and an eccentric genius, haughty in his views and austere
in his measures". Some say other noblemen of his day claimed he was of illegitimate ancestry[12], which motivated him
to make an exhaustive search for "proof" of his lineage. Most scoffed when he claimed descent from Gruffudd ap Cynan
and even modern scholars admit the ancestry of Gruffudd ap Caradog of c. 1200 is unknown. His father was Morys ap John Wynn
who lived 1525-1580. His grandfather, John Wynn ap Maredudd, died in 1559 when the future Sir John was but 6 years
old. It had been his great-grandfather Maredudd ap Ieuan who had established the basis for the future wealth of the
family by (1) being fostered out as a lad to a wealthy gentleman who owned Crug and, having no sons of his own, left
it to Maredudd; (2) marrying the daughter of a scion of the family descended from Ednyfed Fychan; and (3) purchasing the
lease of a huge tract of uninhabited waste land, overrun by thieves, in Nant Conwy. This Maredudd had then
built a private army to rid the area of thieves by offering land to strong, tall young men (many of questionable reputation)
and helping them restore the manor houses which had been abandoned by former tenants]13].

We are told by Sir John that
the paternal home of Y Gesail Gyfarch in Eifionydd had long been embroiled in inter-family fighting between its various
cousin lines; Maredudd supposedly had answered the question "why did you settle in wasteland overrun by thieves instead
of return to your father's manor at his death" by saying he preferred to fight with outlaws rather than with his own blood
and kindred. No doubt many stories of Maredudd were passed down to Sir John, but he had no way to sort fact from
hyperbole; the man was long dead by the time Sir John was born. And it is doubtful much more than their names was known
to Sir John concerning the father and grandfather of Maredudd; there was little heroic about, nor pride to be found in,
men who had accomplished little more than fight their own cousins for decades.

The father of Maredudd
was Ieuan ap Robert ap Maredudd, a man whom Sir John says was born in 1437 and died at the age of 31 in 1468. We
assume he located the inquest record to learn this information. It is at this point in the family where Sir John's pedigree
ceases to follow a reasonable timeline, and diverges into pure confusion by his assumption that every Ieuan
ap Robert ap Maredudd found in the records of Eifionydd was the same man as his ancestor.

Sir John located a Ieuan
ap Robert ap Maredudd and begins writing about that Robert as if it were his ancestor. That Robert ap Maredudd was born
c. 1365/1370 and had a brother named Ieuan. Those brothers took opposite sides in the Owain Glendwr rebellion, with
Robert supporting Glendwr and Ieuan siding with King Henry IV. But the finding that Robert was a man of fighting age
in 1400-1407 (he received a pardon from the king in 1408) left Sir John with a big gap in the pedigree he was drafting.
If his ancestor Ieuan ap Robert were born in 1437, how could it be that Robert was near or past 70 years old at the birth
of a son? Obviously none of Sir John's living relatives knew anything about the Robert ap Maredudd in their
ancestry, so when Sir John reviewed his findings with them it was agreed that Robert ap Maredudd surely must have married
late in life. After all, Sir John had located the will of Morfydd ferch Ieuan Goch, the wife of Maredudd ap Ieuan and
mother of the brothers Robert and Ieuan ap Maredudd. The will was dated 1416, consistent with a lady born c. 1350 who
had mothered sons the right age to be embroiled in the Glendwr rebellion. Thus we are told by Sir John "for we have
it by certain tradition that Robert was almost four score years old before he ever married and then in his dotage fancied
and married Angharad (born. c. 1415), the daughter of Dafydd ap Llewelyn ap Dafydd of Cefnmelgoed....". A tradition,
no doubt, begun by Sir John himself as he sought to explain the huge gap in the pedigree he had fashioned for himself!

In fact, his real ancestor was
a Robert ap Maredudd ap Ieuan born c. 1400 who did marry the Angharad of c. 1415 mentioned above. That Robert had a younger
brother, John ap Maredudd, who took in Robert's son Ieuan, born in 1437, after Robert died and when Ieuan was still a
child....not from old age, but as a man in his 40's. Sir John located a wholly different John ap Maredudd whom he makes
the foster caretaker of Ieuan, this one descended from the family which did have brothers Robert and Ieuan living in 1400:

1335 Maredudd ap Hywel====Morfydd ferch Ieuan Goch

____________l____________
c. 1350, ob 1416

l
l

1365 Robert
Ieuan 1370

l
l

l Maredudd
1400

l
l

1437 Ieuan*
John** 1430

* Actually
this Ieuan was born c. 1400 but Sir John Wynn thought he was the Ieuan ap Robert of 1437 from whom he descended

** This John
ap Maredudd was father to Morys and others. And he is the man of that name to whom Henry Tudor wrote asking for support
for his coming war against Richard III

Sir John calls the John ap Maredudd who took in young Ieuan as a child "his cousin-german's son", the relationship
which does exist between the Ieuan and John in this chart. But even if the Robert of c. 1365 had a son in 1437, his
(Ieuan ap Robert's) cousin-german's son would still be a child near that son's age and hardly capable of taking
any child to foster. The John ap Maredudd in this chart could hardly have been born even a half-generation earlier
than 1430 or he would not have been sought out by Henry Tudor for his support in the mid-1480's. (see this story below)

Notice how the chronology
meshes perfectly when we identify the correct Robert ap Maredudd in Sir John's ancestry:

** Died c. 1445; his widow Angharad
remarried Maredudd ap Rhys ap Ieuan Lloyd of Arllechwedd Uchaf, without the knowledge or consent of her brother-in-law John
according to Sir John Wynn, who merely calls John her "ally".

*** The uncle who raised Ieuan ap Robert;
little else is certain of him since the John ap Maredudd cited extensively by Sir John was a later man of the same name

Among the data assembled
by Sir John in writing his history were two references to a John ap Maredudd. A man of that name, whom we would identify
as his ancestor born c. 1395, had fought as an ally with Owen Tudor in the early 1400's. Sir John found a letter which
Henry Tudor had written to a John ap Maredudd ap Ieuan ap Maredudd in the 1480's asking for his military assistance as he
prepared for the Battle of Bosworth. While assuming the letter's recipient to be the same John ap Maredudd ap Ieuan
ap Maredudd who had earlier assisted Owen Tudor, Sir John took no notice of the chronology. But drawing heavily upon
Sir John's History of the Gwydir Family, Colin Gresham in his Eifionydd, A Study in Land Ownership, 1972,
pp 22/23 says:

"The last recorded fact
in the long life of John ap Maredudd has a touch of romance in it, and also of pathos. When Henry Tudor landed in Milford
Haven in 1485 and was preparing to attack Richard III, he was eager to contact all powerful Welshmen who could give him their
support. He wrote a letter, quoted in The History of the Gwydir Family, to John ap Maredudd ap Ieuan ap Maredudd, commanding
him to bring all possible force that he could to his aid. Henry must often have heard glowing descriptions of the brave
support given to his grandfather...but he had not allowed for the passing of time; the letter must have stirred the old man's
heart with memories of the past"

It is clear Gresham did notice
the chronology problem, but took Henry Tudor as being so foolish as to seek military help from a man whose career had paralelled
his own grandfather. With a bit more research, it would have become clear it was a wholly different John ap Maredudd
to whom Henry Tudor wrote...the one born c. 1435 who was NOT in Sir John's ancestry. But like Sir John, Gresham's work
often confuses the same-named men who lived a generation apart.

THE MIDDLE GENERATIONS

We will begin this
section by charting the manner in which Sir John Wynn connected the ancient family to his contemporary family:

Caradog

l

Gruffudd

l

Dafydd

l

Hywel

l

Maredudd

l

1365 Robert,
pardoned 1408

l

1437
Ieuan, ob 1468

l

Maredudd

l

John Wynn, ob 1559

l

Morys, ob 1580

l

1553 Sir John Wynn, ob 1627

Were we to accept this chart,
we should be forced to date the Caradog at the top to c. 1200, a dating which would allow him to be the son of Thomas ap Rhodri
ap Owain Gwynedd. But we have shown by multiple marriages in the 12th and 13th centuries that this Caradog instead
must date from c. 1170, which leaves another 1-generation gap somewhere, aside from the gap Sir John filled by attaching a
son to a 70+ year old father.

By following the family who
held the Y Gesail Gyfarch manor in Eifionydd, and the "cousin" family at Clenennau, we would recast the pedigree as follows:

1170 Caradog

l

1205
Gruffudd

l

1235 Dafydd

__________l___________

l
l

1270
Hywel(a)
Dafydd(b) 1265

l
l

1305 Maredudd
Hywel 1305

l
l

1335
Ieuan Maredudd(c) 1335

l
______l__________

l
l
l

1365
Maredudd(d) 1365 Robert
Ieuan(e) 1370

_________l______
l
l

l
l l
l

1400 Robert(f) 1395 John(g) Ieuan
1400 Maredudd 1400

l l
l

1437 Ieuan 1430 Owain(h)
John(i) 1430

l l_________
l

Maredudd(j) 1465 l
Morys 1460

l
1460 John Owen(k) l

John Wynn 1495-1559
Elise(l) 1493

l

Morys Wynn 1525-1580

l

Sir John Wynn 1553-1627

(a)
The Hywel ap Dafydd who married Efa ferch Ieuan of Cefn-y-fan; the lady was born c. 1280 and brought that manor to her
son Maredudd

(b) The Dafydd who married Efa ferch Gruffudd
Fychan, heiress of lands in Penyfed, Eifionydd. The lady was born c. 1280 and brought that land to her son Hywel

(c) The Maredudd ap Hywel who married Morfydd
ferch Ieuan Goch, she born c. 1345 and died in 1416

(d) The Maredudd ap Ieuan who married Marged
ferch Einion of Rhiwaedog, she born c. 1375

(e) The Ieuan ap Maredudd who married Lleuci ferch
Hywel of Nannau, she born c. 1380

(f) The Robert ap Maredudd ap Ieuan who married
Angharad ferch Dafydd ap Llewelyn, not when he was near 80 years old, but in his 30's

(g) The John ap Maredudd who fostered his
nephew, Ieuan ap Robert; he was also the John ap Maredudd who fought beside Owen Tudor in the early 1400's, and who married
Gwenhwyfar ferch Gronwy of Gwynfryn, a lady born c. 1405

(h) This son of John ap Maredudd received the
family's paternal manor at Ystumcegid

(i) The John ap Maredudd of Clenennau whom Henry Tudor
wrote for support in the 1480's

(j) The Maredudd ap Ieuan who left Eifionydd to
settle on wastelands in Nant Conwy, and who purchased Gwydir from a descendant of Hywel Coetmor

(k) 5 generations after this John Owen, an heiress (Cathryn
ferch Robert) took Ystumcegid to her son, Owain Wynn ap Robert, whose only daughter, Margaret, married Sir Robert Owen of
Clenennau

(l) 3 generations after Elise, an heiress (Elen
ferch Sir William Maurice) took Clenennau to her son, John Owen of Bodsilin. Her great-grandson, Sir Robert Owen married
the heiress of Ystumcegid

We tend to excuse Sir John a
bit for thinking that a John ap Maredudd ap Ieuan ap Maredudd ap Hywel ap Dafydd born c. 1430 was the same man as the John
ap Maredudd ap Ieuan ap Maredudd ap Hywel ap Dafydd who was born c. 1400. But those two separate lines of
the family can be seen repeatedly in the cited pedigrees of other men and ladies of the two families:

1. Marsli ferch Maredudd ap Hywel ap Dafydd married Cynwrig ap Bleddyn
ap Ithel Anwyl ap Bleddyn ap Ithel Lloyd ap Ithel Gam Hen ap Maredudd ap Uchdryd[14]. That Cynwrig was born c. 1320
and we date Marsli c. 1335 and make her from the family on the left above, her father being Maredudd born c. 1305.

2. Marsli ferch Maredudd ap Hywel ap Dafydd married John son of Richard Conwy[15].
Their son, Jenkin, was father to John Conwy Hen, born c. 1430. We date John son of Richard c. 1360 and Marsli c. 1370,
a full generation younger than the Marsli mentioned above. We assign her to the family on the right, a sister of
the two brothers who took opposite sides during the Owain Glendwr rebellion. Even Sir John Wynn tells us those brothers
had a sister named Marsli, although he follows the traditional Conwy pedigree in saying she married Jenkin Conwy and was the
mother of 'Hen John Aer y Conwy'. Were that true, and our research finds otherwise, the lady would occur a full two
generations after the Marsli we first mentioned. There can be little doubt there were two separate men named Maredudd
ap Hywel ap Dafydd who each fathered a daughter named Marsli.

3. Robin ap Hywel ap Dafydd married Dyddgu ferch Llewelyn ap Gronwy Fychan
ap Tudor ap Gronwy ap Ednyfed Fychan[16]. Dyddgu would occur c. 1305 and we'd date this Robin c. 1300, a son of the
Hywel born c. 1270 from the family on the left in our previous chart.

4. Robin ap Hywel ap Dafydd had a daughter, Angharad, who married Ithel
Fychan ap Cynwrig ap Robert ap Iorwerth[17] descended from the so-called Ednowain Bendew II. Ithel Fychan was born c.
1370, so if we date Angharad to c. 1380, the Robin ap Hywel who was her father would occur c. 1345 or a full generation later
than the Robin mentioned above. We'd assigned his father as the Hywel born c. 1305 in the family on the right in our
chart.

5. Ieuan ap Maredudd ap Hywel married Lleuci ferch Hywel ap Meurig ap Ynyr
Fychan ap Ynyr of Nannau[18]. She would date from c. 1380 and we date Ieuan ap Maredudd to c. 1370, the man in the family
on the right above who had the brother Robert. Sir John Wynn incorrectly calls the father of Lleuci "Hywel Sele",
but that man was the son of Meurig Lloyd ap Meurig ap Ynyr Fychan.

6. Ieuan ap Maredudd ap Hywel was the father of the Maredudd who married
Marged ferch Einion ap Ithel[19] (discussed earlier in this paper) and had sons Robert and John. That Maredudd was born
c. 1365 and we date this Ieuan c. 1335 from the family on the left in our chart.

7. Hywel ap Ieuan ap Maredudd ap Hywel had a daughter, Lowri, who married
Maredudd ap Einion ap Sir Hywel y Fwyall[20]. That Maredudd would occur c. 1395 and we date Lowri to c. 1405.
Her father Hywel, accordingly, would have been born c. 1370 and be a son of the c. 1335 Ieuan from the family on the left
of our chart.

8. Hywel Fychan ap Ieuan ap Maredudd ap Hywel is charted by Bartrum as
a brother of the Hywel next above. He married Mallt ferch Rhys ap Ieuan[21], which Ieuan was a brother of Sir Hywel
y Fwyall. This Mallt must have been born c. 1405 and her husband Hywel Fychan born c. 1400...about a generation later
than the Hywel mentioned next above. Furthermore, this Hywel Fychan had a daughter Gwenhwyfar who married Ithel ap Hywel
ap Llewelyn ap Dafydd ap Ieuan Wyddel[22] descended from Llowarch ap Bran. Ieuan Wyddel was born c. 1290; 4 generations
later came Ithel, born c. 1415. His wife, Gwenhwyfar, would have occurred c. 1430....exactly where we should expect
to find a daughter of the c. 1400 Hywel Fychan. Thus, he requires a Ieuan born c. 1370 as his father, whom we find in
the family on the right in our chart. A late source describes this Hywel Fychan as "of Gesail Gyfarch" which he wasn't...
but would be if he were a brother of the other Hywel ap Ieuan ap Maredudd ap Hywel.

We would be remiss in our current project if we
concluded it without commenting on a matter which Sir John Wynn considered of paramount importance (but which we and others
consider both immaterial and unproven). He went to great lengths attempting to show that his was the senior line descended
from the Maredudd who was father to Ieuan born 1437. Still talking about the c. 1400 brothers Robert and Ieuan ap Maredudd
from who he did NOT descend, Sir John writes "Robert had issue Ieuan; Ieuan his brother had issue Maredudd; Maredudd had issue
John. John, being of man's estate, had the tuition of his uncle, Ieuan ap Robert, my ancestor, and yet Robin Fychan
ap Dafydd ap Hywel's land in Denbighland, being cousin to them both, descended to Ieuan ap Robert my ancestor, and not to
John ap Maredudd". To Sir John, this was undisputed proof that Robert was the elder brother of Ieuan.

We consider the matter immaterial
since Sir John did not descend from either of those brothers. He cited no source to show that the land in Ucwh Dulas
"descended" to anyone; a simple showing that it was later in the possesion of a man named Ieuan ap Robert ap Maredudd isn't
proof he was closely related to the former owners. Just out of curiousity, we looked for the pedigree
of Robin Fychan ap Dafydd ap Hywel. No such name occurs in the body of medieval pedigree manuscripts, although this was probably
the family of Dafydd ap Hywel ap Dafydd of Llanrwst, Rhos. Born c. 1365, that Dafydd had a son named Robin born c. 1400
who had a daughter Cathryn born c. 1435. Cathryn married Rhys ap Einion Fychan ap Ieuan descended from Iorwerth y Penwyn
of Is Aled, Rhufoniog. She and Rhys had two daughters but no sons. Sir John asserts, incorrectly, that
the lands which had been held by Cathryn's father "was, by the custom of the country, to descend to his heir male".
This, he claims, was Ieuan ap Robert, Sir John's ancestor.

We have not investigated to determine
which Ieuan ap Robert came into possession of those lands, but we have seen many cases where a man died with only daughters
and his lands went to those ladies, their spouses and children....not to some distant male cousin. If this Robin whom
Sir John calls "Robin Fychan" was indeed "cousin" to the Robert ap Maredudd in Sir John's line, he likely sold his
land to Ieuan ap Robert after he'd married his daughter (an only child) to a man from a well-off family.
Equally likely, the purchaser was the earlier Ieuan ap Robert NOT in Sir John's ancestry.

This chart shows the probable relationships
between Robin "Fychan" ap Dafydd to the two families depicted in our next above chart:

1235 Dafydd ap Gruffudd ap Caradog

_____________________l______________

l
l

1270 Hywel
Dafydd 1265

l son of one of these brothers*
l

1305 Maredudd 1295 Dafydd
Hywel 1305

l l
l

1335 Ieuan
1330 Hywel Maredudd 1335

l
l
l

1365 Maredudd
1365 Dafydd Robert 1365

l
l
l

1400 Robert
1400 Robin Ieuan
1400

l
l

1437 Ieuan
1435 Cathryn

(Sir John's line) (Llanrwst
lands) (the Clenenneu line)

*Most citations end with Dafydd except
for one which skips to Gruffudd, a chronological impossibility. Our best guess is that he was a son of the Dafydd ap
Dafydd of c. 1265, and is the man sometimes called Dafydd Chwith who is known to have held lands in Rhos. Notice that
Robin is 3rd cousin to both men who occur on the same horizontal line with him in the chart.

Regardless of which Ieuan
ap Robert ended up with the Rhos lands of Robin ap Dafydd, we can't agree with Sir John Wynn that it would "prove" which of
the two families was "senior" to the other.

NOTES:

[1] These include Pen, 127, 127 and Pen. 128, 137b

[2] These include Pen. 129, 95 & 111

[3] See the paper "Henry, Forgotten Son of Cadwgan ap Bleddyn" elsewhere on this
site

[4] Dwnn ii, 69; Cardiff 4.265, 216

[5] The 1334 Survey of Denbigh mentions the exchange of Ysgeibion for land
in Mathebrwd in Llanrwst in Uwch Dulas Rhos, and for Esgorebrith in Eglwys-bach in Uwch Dulas Rhos

[11] One possibility is that Hywel and Dafydd were born to different ladies,
and it was Dafydd's mother who owned the Rhos property

[12] This may have been a reference to the Hywel ap Gruffudd ap Dafydd from the
next above note; his mother may not have been married to his father, and it is from that Hywel whom Sir John Wynn descended.
Alternately, his "illegitimacy" might have referred to the mother of Thomas at the top of his pedigree; we suspect she was
a base daughter of King Henry I who married the father of Thomas

[13] Data recited in this paragraph is taken from the history written by Sir
John himself