The finance rate really has nothing to do with the selling price. They are two distinct items. Dealers negotiate the selling price. Dealers do not set the finance rate for which a customer qualifies. Those rates are set by the lending institution and they are not in dependent on the selling price.

In most states, dealers are allowed to add to the interest rate for which a customer qualifies. That is referred to as dealer reserve. For example, if a customer qualifies for an interest rate of 2 percent a dealer might tell the customer the rate is 4 percent. If the customer is unaware he or she qualifies for 2 percent, the customer might settle at 4 percent. The dealer receives a significant part of the difference in interest resulting from the rate bump as profit from the lending institution

Fortunately there is an out. If a buyer finds they settled for too high a rate, the buyer can try to get the dealer to make it right. Good luck with that. On the other hand, the buyer can refinance for the lower rate. When that happens shortly after the purchase the dealer loses the profit it made from the inflated interest rate and the buyer has the satisfaction of knowing the dealer did not gain from this deception.

First off I would just like to thank everyone here for all the great information I found by reading these forums. The information found here was a huge help to me in tracking down a good deal on the car I wanted.

Now on to my buying experience.

The first thing I did was to send emails to all the local dealers. I know everyone recommended waiting until the end of the month, but I was too impatient/excited to get my new vehicle. The email I sent was very generic. I told the dealer which model I was interested in, I asked what financing offers were available, and I informed them that I was checking all the local dealerships for the best deal. All the dealers replied to my email within an hour. Most of them seemed pushy even over email by urging me to come to the dealership.

The next day I followed up with Honda Marysville in Marysville OH. I let them know that I wanted to stop in for a test drive. I picked Honda Marysville not because they were the cheapest, they were actually $200 more than the cheapest, but because they were the most polite and least pushy over email.

When I got to Honda Marysville I test drove the CRV EX-L AWD I was interested in. After the test drive I sat down with Fred from the internet team. Right away Fred brought me an offer that beat their internet price they quoted me as well as the quotes given by the other dealerships. No haggling needed, which is good because my negotiating skills are subpar!

I ended up with my CRV EX-L AWD for $26,800 +$250 doc fees +$33 lic/reg +6.75% sales tax. I did finance the car through the dealership at .9% over 60 months. I would definitely recommend working with the internet team at Honda Marysville. I'm sure someone waiting until the end of March with better negotiating skills could get an even better offer, but I am 100% satisfied with the service and deal I received.

Once again, thank you to everyone here for all the information you provide. It is such a huge help for the inexperienced buyer such as myself.

I like to add what ken was talking about in prior post.When you are buying a new vehicle the 1st thing you do is apply for finance thru the lowest credit union or bank . Once your finance is approved and in place you wait til the end of the month to start your buying process. First half thru and 3rd week of the month you could send out your emails and make your phone calls, visit dealers asking them for pricing and finding out what ever info you need to obtain for that final purchase on the last day/ making your offer to as many dealerships with your offer price to earn your business on that day.

honda's rates are low right know . Check out PEN Fed credit union they have low rates. $25 to join if you are not active or retired military. Reduced rate if a family member served.Before i bought my honda Accord on Feb 28th i used the Pen fed loan to get honda to lower there finance rate.

Pen was 1.49% in Feb... March rate is 1.9% for 60 or 72.

Some dealerships who cant meet your asking price might sell you the vehicle if you finance tru them. Make sure they meet you rate. This happen when you tell dealers you are buying outright you dont want there finance

When I called the dealers locally a month back the lowest I got was 23500+tax. I am guessing if I get down to 25000 out of the door, that will be a good deal. What do you think? Truecar states the lowest paid based on local sales in my zipcode was 23195+tax.

I was planning on starting to call dealers from Mar 28th and buy on Mar 31st.

Start your emails and calls on the 28th letting each dealership know that for 500 below invoice price you will buy that moment and secure the deal with a credit card deposit . Do not budge off your price. Tell each dealership that is the number that will close the deal.

after you call/ email dealers with your price sit back and wait til march 30th to close your deal. you may close on the 28th so be ready to buy that day. On march 30th make you best deal.Experience tells me you will close before the 30th.First quarter ends for all car companies on the 30th.. big deals will happen this month and on that day.

Remember dealer sells for 500 below invoice but his doc fee's are $75.dealer sold vehicle to you for $425 below invoice.Doc fee's are dealer profit thats it.

If i was buying a CRV i would find the lowest prices paid in this forum and on march 30th i would call 30 honda dealerships closest to my house and use that number to buy that day. if you dont try you will never know if you could get it. dealers that need those sales numbers will deal on the last days. Thats when you have the most car buying leverage.Good luck

Brian, thanks for the reply and tips. I just wanted to update that I emailed some 4 high volume dealers around and said I already have an offer for 25112(fabricated) and one dealer offered to go for 25109 out of door. That's 300 below invoice.

I told him I will only close on 31st and he asked to come in on 28th to make sure everything is in place to close on 30th. Two others said they will see if they can beat my fabricated price. I never imagined they would go below invoice based on how they sounded in Feb ,looks like March indeed is a great month for a good deal.

My wife and my birthdays are on 28th so I won't mind closing that day if I get 500 below invoice. However I must say that a part of me is already feeling guilty like I am betraying the dealers by using their best prices to sic other dealers in this bidding game..silly I know.

I have been reading the posts so I hope I am ready but the dealers are really getting on my nerves.

I want to purchase a Honda CRV EX-L with NAV. I also would like to add some options but feel maybe I should just offer to buy the car first and then work on the options after a OTD price has been determined and then see if they will add options at cost.

I am trying to find out the following:

1. Is the NAV a good option to purchase? I really liked it during the test drive.

2. Should I negotiate the price of just the car without the options first?

3. What is the lowest OTD price for this model seen.

4. Does anyone have a dealership in the southern wisconsin/Nothern Illinois area that is part of the PFCU special program that they would recommend going through.

I am going to try hard to follow Brian's advice to wait until next weekend which is the 29th and 30th. I am having trouble getting alot of dealers because in the area I am (rural Wisconsin) truecar has only provided me with four dealerships where I can get the .74% or 1.24% depending on how many years I take, through my credit union.

I have contacted these dealerships but all of them are offering me really high prices probably because they think I do know what they are doing.

Look at it this way. Your playing the dealers same game they all lie and deceive folks. Just think how nice that b-day dinner is going to taste knowing you saved another 500. maybe you throw the mrs another 50 for the b-day cause your king daddy... good luck.

supply and demand. when there are not alot of dealers the prices remain high.i would suggest trying to get as many email quotes on line from dealers within 4 hours of you and high volume dealerships and see if one of the local dealers will match or come close to that offer the last day of march.

i bought the 13 accord exl v-6 without nav. i dont like the nav in honda. i like my garmin nuvi better. i have a 12 bmw x-5 and i think my garmin is better also. not a big fan of car nav's.

your in a tuff spot where you live so on the options check out these sites for pricing and make the dealer match these prices. If dealer wont match them buy them separatley and do your self or have a reputable shop put them on. you will save hundreds..

I just wanted to confirm I am following your directions on coming up with a price correctly:

EX-L AWD with Nav Invoice Price $28,434from that I should deduct 2% dealer holdback of $605.90 (2% of MSRP)from that I should deduct destination fee of $830from that I should deduct Dealer Doc fee of $299Final price OTD $26,299 OR$26,299 plus tax, title, and tag fee.

same thing if I go no Nav but the Invoice changes to $27.030

ALSO

Can you recall what the lowest OTD price you have seen on this forum for this model (EX-L with NAV) so I know where to start.

ALSO

How do I find and/or know a dealership is high volume?

Thanks again, I am so glad I found this site and have your help. It would be much more difficult if not expensive without it.

you cant deduct the dest charge of 830 that we all have to pay.your starting number to buy is $28,360 plus tags and tax. What ever the dealerships doc fee's are add them to your sale price. In this case we did..

so at this price 28,360 your asking the dealers to sell you at 904 below invoice price. but once he adds on the doc fee's of 299 on your bill of sale your at 605 below invoice. i think this price is very do-able .

type in high volume honda dealerships in your area and contact them via email for a price on the 3rd week of march. if you boarder another state go into that state for pricing.. get your best offers and build on that number . pull the trigger on march 30th . dealerships that need those sales numbers will sell cars hundreds of dollars cheaper on that day...Dealers want that large incentive check from the honda corp..the key to getting the best price is to target as many dealerships on the last day and pitch your meet my price i buy from you now. you could very well get your price on the 29th or 28th so be ready to buy. let each dealership know meet my price i buy today. my price it what gets it done today.

I second Brian's opinion about going getting your own nav--Like you, I was also initially tempted to opt for navigation-- but when you look at what you would be paying for it -- it just doesnt make any sense. you could probably buy the highest end portable gps and not spend as much! same goes for the entertainment imo. you can hand your kids a portable dvd player-- or secure it to the backseat for a fraction of the price.on the other hand, it think that leather seating is worth the splurge-- although i wonder if you couldn't also install that aftermarket...still even if so, there's probably enough of a benefit to having it factory installed

My dilemma right now is what to do about accessories, and whether i should be using them as part of my negotiation:I want 3 bike rails, cargo tray, cargo net, and wheel locks.i've gotten a quote for 27,267+500 for those accessories on a CRV EX-L AWD.So, I reasoned that if i get the car at 27,000 INCLUDING the accessories, the dealers should be biting...because that would be almost equivalent to 500 below invoice for ME (since the invoice is about 27,000 and the accessories are around 500)-- but really less than a 500 reduction for them since i'm counting the retail value of the accessories and they aren't. but they haven't bit yet. Do I expect them to bite at the end of the month?Should I expect an even greater discount then? Or does my number of 27,000 including accessories sound like a good deal?

so at this price 28,360 your asking the dealers to sell you at 904 below invoice price. but once he adds on the doc fee's of 299 on your bill of sale your at 605 below invoice. i think this price is very do-able .

If you're 605 under invoice after the doc fee, you've taken all their holdback. The only profit is the double-secret money from Honda, and IS there any of that right now?

Going in at the end of the month, if he's close to a quota, he may bite... but if he's either made his quota or has no hope of getting a bigger bonus, then he's got no reason to sell that car!

Dealer is grossing ~550, almost all of which is holdback. Out of that they're throwing in the accessories. Incentives from the factory must be really good to make that happen.

When I bought my Accord years ago, there was a little-known $1500 factory to dealer incentive. Dealer made his holdback plus the doc fee, and gave me a reasonable number on my trade. Probably the easiest car deal I ever did.

College hills honda. make dealer match college prices or buy it thru there parts dept.

Why do you need wheel locks. Who wants to steal a CRV wheel and rim come on think about it. CRV is a small family suv with ok looking rims. wheel locks at college is 36 dollars. I;"m sure you could buy a set of wheel locks at pep boys or auto zone for under 20

Ronsteve Great point on buyers incentive and dealers selling on pricing.been buying new cars for 35 yrs playing the same game i speak about on line now. before the internet i would call every dealer and apply my system. With the internet it is so much easier just look at this forum and all the folks helping out with pricing and there tips on buying.

Ive been saying this for many years now the Car Companies have set up this pricing system with M.S.R.P. and Invoice price on all cars. I dont believe that the invoice price you see on these web sites are the real invoice. Only the dealerships bosses know. I dont think the sales people know it either.Honda does a great job sticking together and not giving you to much below that dealer-hold back on new end models. late in the year you could buy alot cheaper.Toyota , Nissan, all American car companies will give you great discounts on there cars.

If a Internet manager tells you I cant sell you a car for that price which alot do you then ask him to come as close to your number and you will consider it.

I tell everybody the first 27 days of any month you will never get a dealers lowest price. they dont care... Dealers are looking to make as much money off all the un educated car buyers they can. Were all smart buyers so we wont be suckered. dealers are making tons of money off these people. I cant believe people make a good deal on a new vehicle then give back to the dealer hundreds of dollars in doc fee's. Dont let these guys get away with it.dispute and negotiate every charge..

You guys have nothing to lose asking dealers to sell at 1000 below invoice this month. let each dealership counter your offer if its to low.

If i start at 1000 below invoice price, 40 dealers may say no but 5 may say they can do 800 below.If you start your negotiations at 650 below invoice dealers might get you down to 400 below invoice. Gotta play the game... This is the rules and system they set up. If your a good negotiator you will do just fine on the last day of this month..

Last month on feb 28th i bought a Accord EXL v-6 with wheel locks and mudguards included in the price, 3 free oil changes and doc fee's reduced to 25 dollars. i paid 775 below invoice price i had dealers up in boston and delaware who would of sold me a little cheaper but the savings was not enough for the time factor. i told every dealer i was buying at other dealerships if my price was not met. thats how you play with these guys.

the internet has hurt the car companies thats why your seeing doc fees as much as 700 dollars in some states................ fight these charges..

Bought 2013 CRV EX L 2wd w/o nav. with splash guards last Thursday for 26,300 OTD. I paid tags,title and taxes in my state as I bought this car in Atlanta. The dealer stated their Doc fee was 599. I figured dealer invoice of 25,860+830 dest.+70 dealer cost splashguard=26,760. This put me 460 below invoice or 1059 if you included their doc fee.

I received an intial quote from new rochelle honda for 27,263 before taxes and dmv-- so I would say that your quote is at LEAST 100 more than it should be.Also-- I think the REAL question we all want an answer to is :WHAT IS THE REAL INVOICE PRICE?

I received an intial quote from new rochelle honda for 27,263 before taxes and dmv-- so I would say that your quote is at LEAST 100 more than it should be.

Does that include their doc fee?

The invoice price is $27860... of course the dealer gets roughly $600 holdback when they sell one of these, but you have to remember they have expenses too.

You and the previous poster are $500-600 under invoice there, so if that includes doc fees, they are relying on their incentive check from Honda to keep the lights on and pay their employees, and also pay the floorplan interest. Unless there's some other double-secret incentive to dealers on CR-Vs right now.

Ask yourself this... is a Honda CR-V a reasonable expense of $27,xxx? That should tell you more about your deal than being pissed off because a dealer might have made $1000 on the vehicle.

according Edmunds.com the inv price is $27264, so I was guessing maybe I can ask for 27100, or even lower!? the 2nd dealer didn't breakdown the details, but if you add the doc fee + Reg + Tax together, it is is about 10% of the price, because other dealers give me the same doc fee, reg fee all around $300sh, tax are the same here 8.75%. I like hear from all the experience people to help me offer a reasonable price to negotiate with those dealers. Please help, I'm in middle of negotiating with them by emails now.

If you would click a step farther, you will see that those figures don't include the $830 destination charge, which is charged to the dealer and passed on to the customer. So invoice is $28094, unless you want him to eat that too.

the 2nd dealer didn't breakdown the details, but if you add the doc fee + Reg + Tax together, it is is about 10% of the price, because other dealers give me the same doc fee, reg fee all around $300sh, tax are the same here 8.75%

Doc fee is relevant, as it is negotiable. If the dealer tells you it's not, then make sure you account for it in your offer. It is possible they could all be charging the max allowed by law. Tax is set by the state. Registration fees are also set by the state.

Your Sales tax and Registration is set by state. Forget about those numbers for now. Work on Vehicle Sale price and doc fee's from all dealers you email or talk with..Every dealership you contact the only 2 numbers you are concerned with are .-Your asking Sale price and Dealerships doc fee's for the time being. You need to ask every dealership you email or speak to.. HOW much are your Doc fee's.

You need to decide on a below invoice number for your asking price to buy.whether its 500, 600, or 700 below invoice make sure you know each dealerships doc fee's and add them onto your asking price.

If your a good negotiator call each dealership and speak directly to the Internet sales Manager and pitch your sale. Do not start before this thursday.After you agree on a sale price to buy you then go over the OTD expenses, Doc fee's ,Tax, Dmv, etc. You already put the dealers doc fee's in the sale price of vehicle so its a wash on the bill of sale..

Please post your deal... it will help the other buying members in this forum..

there's something very interesting, so now according the edmunds.com the inv price is $27264, and I need add $830 of des charge = $28094. but all of those dealers in bay area give my their initial price are lower then this number, and when I ask them to list the detail of OTD for me, non of them listed this $830 of des charge. will this fee going to add up when I go to sign the final paper? any bay area buyer here can confirm this?

The destination charge is on the sticker. Unless they are reallllly shady, they are adjusting the sticker to the agreed upon selling price, and I would not expect them to add destination back in. If they do, call them on it!

So for $27480 (Price + doc) they are basically at invoice less holdback, so their "profit" on the vehicle is whatever bonus they are getting from Honda for hitting their numbers. In other words a pretty good deal.