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Unanswered: DB2 on HP-UX

Hi,

I would like to know the details about using DB2 on HP-UX. Has anybody worked on such an environment? If yes, please pass on information about advantages and drawbacks of this environment, such as maintenance, performance, technical issues etc.

I have never used DB2 on HP-UX, but there are obviously users out there.

It is not much different than AIX except that, because the number of users is much smaller than AIX, Linux, or Windows, the number of HP-UX specific bugs may slightly higher (not as many users to report the bugs). I doubt this is a significant issue.

Also, there are more AIX-specific performance tuning variables in the DB2 registry compared to the HP-UX or Sun versions.

If you are running in HP-UX 32 bit mode, the maximum amount of DB2 shared memory that can be used is about 1 GB vs. 1.75 GB for AIX 32 bit mode. But in HP-UX 64-bit mode this is not an issue.

I viewed the details on the website, but, couldn't get details on specific areas like Ease of Maintenance, Performance, Integration issues etc. They have talked in more general terms than on specific areas of interest.

Sorry, I guess I don't know what you mean with regard to Ease of Maintenance, Performance, Integration issues etc. AFAIK, everything is 99% the same as DB2 for AIX except for what I mentioned, and some minor differences that are documented in the manual (mostly referring to file paths and OS related stuff).

Thanks Marcus! Actually I don't know much about DB2 on AIX either. We were looking at two options, the AllBase database on HP-UX V/S the DB2 database on HP-UX and were trying to find out which one is better suited to our requirements.

AllBase being HP's own database will definitely integrate and work out well with HP-UX. But, looking into distant future, DB2 being more widely used, we wanted to find out if that had some advantages over AllBase. Since, there is no direct comparison available between AllBase on HP-UX and DB2 on HP-UX, we are trying to evaluate them individually and then come up with our list of comparison.

To get all this done, I am trying to find out some significant advantages or drawbacks of using DB2 on HP-UX.

If you want to compare advantages or drawbacks of using DB2 on HP-UX, you can only do that in context of using an alternative like Allbase or some other database. Advantages or disadvantages, by definition, only exist in comparison to something else.

You also you need to determine your requirements (short term and long term) for a database and then see how each product measures up to what you need. There are many benefits of DB2 compared to Allbase (and maybe vis versa), but it doesn't do much good if you don't need those particular features.

HP has not published any benchmarks on Allbase (www.tpc.org). I don't even know if Allbase is a true relational database or if it qualifies for inclusion in the TPC benchmarks (because it may lack certain required features).

DB2, Oracle, and MS SQL Server are the big 3 in industrial strength relational databases. They are the only ones that are likely to be around long term. There is not much of difference in terms of performance of these products on the same hardware. MS SQL Server only runs on Windows, but the other two run on many platforms.

I think that the Allbase product is weak in terms of strategic viability and ties you to HP, so that could be a major factor. But if you do move to an industrial strength database like Oracle or DB2, then you should have trained professionals to help you.

Re: DB2 on HP-UX

Where do I begin? We have the largest Allbase DB in the world. It is very stable in the scheme of things but it is also limited. Don't use it, but I only say this because it's end of life is soon. I think 2005. It only runs on HP/UX 11 and will not be upgraded again so the benefits of HP/UX 11i are all lost.

We are actually an Informix shop and DB2 has been forced upon us. We've had it installed for just over 1 year. :-)

Our platform of choice is HP and all of our DB servers are HP.
Although IBM keeps telling me we are not the only ones in the world on HP and DB2 I'm not sure I believe that because they could never find anyone for me to talk to on HP.

If you use DB2 make sure you only use V8.1FP4 and newer versions coming. Also make sure you only use the 64-bit version unless you don't need much memory. On HP 32-bit a maximum of 1.75GB can be used. Since DB2 is designed on HP to only allow one memory segment you can only use 1GB because that is the largest single memory segment size in 32-bit. On 64-bit you can still have only one mem seg but of course the segment can be huge.

Just my opinion; but I'm pretty sure IBM did this on purpose so most people would stick with or move to AIX.

The HP platform is stable. Considering what we do to our machines (overload) most servers would just go up in smoke. We could never keep our AIX servers up more than a week at a time. We have just gotten rid of the last one but I'm sure there are other's that have just the opposite experience. Sun and HP Unix are very much alike and kept the standard commands that the orginial Unix had, only AIX has different ones and Lixux of course.

If you decide to use HP and/or DB2 I can give you more details, it's a lot to write at the moment.

Regards,
AC

Originally posted by umach
Hi,

I would like to know the details about using DB2 on HP-UX. Has anybody worked on such an environment? If yes, please pass on information about advantages and drawbacks of this environment, such as maintenance, performance, technical issues etc.

DBAgirl, you comments about memory limitation when using DB2 for HP/UX seem a bit off base (suggesting that the memory limitation is a conspiracy to get people to move to AIX).

There are similar memory limitations with all 32-bit operating systems. The actual limits do vary somewhat, but Linux for example, has the same 1GB limit on bufferpools. IBM is strongly supporting Linux because they see it as “leveling the field” against Microsoft and Sun Solaris. For IBM, Linux is the Microsoft killer and payback for the OS/2 fiasco.

The DB2 memory limitation for AIX 32 bit is a little higher (1.75 GB), but not much higher. The limit on Sun Solaris is higher than AIX. Actually the DB2 bufferpool limit on 32 bit Windows is also higher than AIX (with up to 8GB limit on Advanced Server through Microsoft Address Windowing Extensions). No one would say that IBM is trying to get people to move to Windows for server OS’s.

IBM probably could do more to exploit memory in 32 bit operating systems, but 64-bit server computing is now available on all OS’s and DB2 platforms (and has been on the drawing board for some time). I can tell you that software companies are very leery to spend time and money trying to get around inherent limitations on obsolete platforms. It always takes away from other more important enhancements that need to be done.

Your comments about having DB2 “forced on you,” has perhaps created some bitterness about IBM and DB2?

Marcus,
I should probably be more careful online where people do not know me. The faces generally are an indication of my sense of humor which can be very sarcastic. I have made these same comments to IBM in jest but the reality is that DB2 on AIX can access more than 1 mem seg and that's why it can address more 32-bit mem. "Other" RDBMS's don't have this problem on Sun, HP, or AIX. That was the basis for my joke/comments. :-) One cannot help but wonder when you start complaining about these things and IBM comes in and says "what if we could give you a bargin to swap out all your HP systems for AIX? At least they were not pushy about it when we said no, been there done that! :-0
I'm doing it again but I hope you understand.

However, I do want to point out that I do not feel they should be addressing anything on a 32-bit platform for the same reasons you indicated. I do feel that HP and IBM should address the 1 me seg limitation on the newest version of their O/S using 64-bit. I am aware that everyone has limitaions in 32-bit.

As for DB2 being forced on us. Well there is much truth in your comment but that is only because we have found DB2 to be so lacking in almost every way. If this was not the case we would have embraced it as we have "ALL" the other ones we have. :-) Either way, it's staying and therefore I will learn much more about it and hopefully this forum can help with my learning process.

Regards,
Alyx

Originally posted by Marcus_A
DBAgirl, you comments about memory limitation when using DB2 for HP/UX seem a bit off base (suggesting that the memory limitation is a conspiracy to get people to move to AIX).

There are similar memory limitations with all 32-bit operating systems. The actual limits do vary somewhat, but Linux for example, has the same 1GB limit on bufferpools. IBM is strongly supporting Linux because they see it as “leveling the field” against Microsoft and Sun Solaris. For IBM, Linux is the Microsoft killer and payback for the OS/2 fiasco.

The DB2 memory limitation for AIX 32 bit is a little higher (1.75 GB), but not much higher. The limit on Sun Solaris is higher than AIX. Actually the DB2 bufferpool limit on 32 bit Windows is also higher than AIX (with up to 8GB limit on Advanced Server through Microsoft Address Windowing Extensions). No one would say that IBM is trying to get people to move to Windows for server OS’s.

IBM probably could do more to exploit memory in 32 bit operating systems, but 64-bit server computing is now available on all OS’s and DB2 platforms (and has been on the drawing board for some time). I can tell you that software companies are very leery to spend time and money trying to get around inherent limitations on obsolete platforms. It always takes away from other more important enhancements that need to be done.

Your comments about having DB2 “forced on you,” has perhaps created some bitterness about IBM and DB2?

I am not qualified to speak about any problems that exist with regard to DB2 on HP. My main point was that AIX does not have best DB2 memory exploitation of the various OS's and DB2 developers are not in a conspiracy to get people to move to AIX by limiting memory exploitation on non-IBM OS's as you suggested. But the relatively few numbers of DB2 for HP/UX licenses probably does have a negative impact on development priorities for that platform.

I can assure you that the DB2 development people are not measured or rewarded on the number of AIX licenses or RS/6000 boxes that customers purchase. Their sole mission is to develop and sell DB2 software (and related data management products). If they were measured and rewarded based on sales of those other IBM products then I assure you they would not have ported DB2 to Sun Solaris and HP/UX in the first place.

I am not sure exactly why you think DB2 is lacking in comparison to other DBMS products, but I guess everyone has their own opinion on that. But not everyone agrees on that score.

I suspect that most DBA's are more concerned about building their resume with the market leader (Oracle) than in the cost/benefit aspects of choosing a DBMS that has the most benefits to the companies they work for. In fact, I know they are.

Now you really have me laughing. You seem to take this all VERY seriously. So don't have a fit when I ask if you work for IBM? :-) I guess I did not make my point clear enough. I do not believe there is a conspiracy to make people move to AIX! By the way I know many great people that work for IBM and have the greatest respect for them. They all know how I feel about DB2 and many agree but we go point for point.

As for your theory about DBA's, I must be one of the exceptions because I do not go for the market leader, I go for the best technology that meets the needs of the company. This also includes platform, price, 3rd party support etc. As far as Oracle is concerned, done that and don't ever plan to return. I'd rather work with DB2! But I have interviewed many DBA's that were such Oracle bigots it was scary.

Please lighten up or you may scare me off and then I'll never get to know the great points about DB2! :-)

Have a nice day, this is my last response to this chain. I agree with just about everything you have said.

Regards,
AC

Originally posted by Marcus_A
I am not qualified to speak about any problems that exist with regard to DB2 on HP. My main point was that AIX does not have best DB2 memory exploitation of the various OS's and DB2 developers are not in a conspiracy to get people to move to AIX by limiting memory exploitation on non-IBM OS's as you suggested. But the relatively few numbers of DB2 for HP/UX licenses probably does have a negative impact on development priorities for that platform.

I can assure you that the DB2 development people are not measured or rewarded on the number of AIX licenses or RS/6000 boxes that customers purchase. Their sole mission is to develop and sell DB2 software (and related data management products). If they were measured and rewarded based on sales of those other IBM products then I assure you they would not have ported DB2 to Sun Solaris and HP/UX in the first place.

I am not sure exactly why you think DB2 is lacking in comparison to other DBMS products, but I guess everyone has their own opinion on that. But not everyone agrees on that score.

I suspect that most DBA's are more concerned about building their resume with the market leader (Oracle) than in the cost/benefit aspects of choosing a DBMS that has the most benefits to the companies they work for. In fact, I know they are.

As indicated in my byline, I work for InfoStar Solutions LLC. Regarding IBM marketing people that you may have come in contact with, some of them are jerks, just like sales and marketing people everywhere. I certainly have my complaints about DB2, but I just wanted to clear up the memory thing between the various operating systems, since many people on this forum are outside the US and may not understand your sarcasm and humor. You are a very rare person to choose software based on the company needs rather than your personal career goals.