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Perhaps you should think about that. The fact that you don't appear to know makes it very difficult for me to discuss anything with you.

As much as I'd love to go on a long tangent about moral philosophy (and perhaps it would be better to PM me about it if you wished to), I simply can't unless I can understand the philosophical framework upon which you base your decisions about moral acts. As far as I know, you don't have one. If I'm wrong, feel free to illuminate me, but we are drifting somewhat off-topic, and the thread probably doesn't need that.

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Do you not see the purpose behind my hypothetical, though? There are situations where revealing the truth can only lead to bad consequences. It is not an absolute that "The truth must be revealed!"

The existence of potentially bad consequences do not cease to make an action morally desirable. Being punished sucks, hurts your feelings, and may restrict your freedom or cause you physical harm. That doesn't mean it isn't right at times.

There are situations which may justify delaying revelation of the truth. However, there is never a situation which justifies supplanting truth with a lie, even temporarily. At times, immediate pursuit of the truth may have negative consequences which necessitate its delay. However, there is simply no such thing as a situation which demands indefinite and eternal concealment. Ever.

The point of Erika wasn't to say, "All mystery fans are evil!". It was to say, "People who are so concerned about finding the truth that they're blind to the problems they cause are evil."

That's your interpretation of what Erika was supposed to represent. To me, Ryuukishi's condescending tone and essay make me think otherwise.

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Sorry, I'm of the opinion that all people do things for reasons. Sure, there are bad people out there, but no one is 100% bad. Maybe mass murderers can't be forgiven, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to understand them. What Umineko does is take these extreme cases (mass murder, incest, rape), and show that even these people are human beings.

That, in my opinion, is far better, and far more beautiful than having Lion kill Kinzo for his crimes, or portraying Beatrice exclusively as a killer, rather than as a victim herself.

You don't need to pick an extreme. You don't need to kill someone over a mistake, but you also don't need to forgive them.

Ryuukishi's lesson is flawed. He didn't show us any reason we should want to forgive other than him preaching that forgiveness is good. Why, we don't even know what we should forgive the culprit of!

What's his response to that?

"WITHOUT LOVE IT CANNOT BE SEEN!"

...Yes real mature Ryu.

Without getting in the nature of how valid his lesson might be, he just did it badly. Really badly. His fanbase loves to be trolled, which gives him a pass in being inconsistent.

Are we really having a "overall game impressions" discussion, or a mere debate over the intention of the author and whatnot?

I'm sorry, but at this point, I have to bring up again on the guideline I was insisting from the very beginning:

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Also, considering the ending and even the nature of the story being debatable, please do not start any fruitless debate whatsoever: everyone is entitled to their opinions, so insisting on personal points and the likes towards your peers will not be condoned. Regardless how you have enjoyed the franchise, do not start imposing your view and expectations to others, and more importantly: do not derail the topic into endless jousting.

I do not expect people to wholeheartedly agree that the franchise was great or bad. However, it would be really better to just -drop- the discussion, when things turn into "it is YOUR interpretation", leading to just an escalating fruitless argument that leaves nothing but a circle discussion over a matter of personal tastes and whatnot.

It is getting extremely tiresome to keeping track with the threads, considering that most are being derailed by the same arguments over and over.

It's true, depression and melodrama are common, but bear in mind that very happy endings are also pretty common. It's like a switch instead of a dial. You either get full-on depressing, bittersweet, or happy, and there are only a small handful of examples in between.

It might also appear that way simply because a lot of VNs have choices that lead to "bad" endings, which may not be bad but may be more of a downer than the "right" ones. Relatively few (but certainly not no) VNs have all endings roughly the same in tone.

Well I haven't really seen all out happy Visual Novels except dating sims or similar stories. Bad endings are fun cause they can be subjectively bad (School Days lol).

I'm thinking tho that Ryuukishi promised us a "bittersweet ending" while we got what is closer to a "depressing ending" (no matter how positive you can view Ange's final resolution it doesn't change that most people are dead and stays so). That might be hurting expectations a lot.

Still I see Beatrice more and more as Kinzo's Kaguya-Hime and somehow I'm not surprised to have the sort of story Umineko is in the end. Including the lack of moral resolution that you seem to dislike so much.

I don't understand how you got from "writing a successful children's book series based on Mariage Sorciere and making some orphans happy" to "supporting a Beato cult".

Let me put it this way. How would you interpret that scene if I replaced Ange with J. K. Rowling and the Umineko cast with Harry Potter characters?

You know what's sad? I actually spent a half hour typing up a hilarious psychoanalysis parodying just how messed up Rowling would be psychologically if she constructed her own personal Hogwarts, and the multiple ways it could show something to be wrong with her.

But I took too long and the damn forum signed me out when I went to post it, and erased all my freacking effort. So you'll get nothing, and I'll get a great deal of frustration.

You know what's sad? I actually spent a half hour typing up a hilarious psychoanalysis parodying just how messed up Rowling would be psychologically if she constructed her own personal Hogwarts, and the multiple ways it could show something to be wrong with her.

But I took too long and the damn forum signed me out when I went to post it, and erased all my freacking effort. So you'll get nothing, and I'll get a great deal of frustration.

Aww. You can't get it back from your browser history?

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"Something has fallen on us that falls very seldom on men; perhaps the worst thing that can fall on them. We have found the truth; and the truth makes no sense."

I finally found Trollkastel's Episode 8 uploads on youtube, so I was a biiiiit distracted, and then had a lapse in judgement.

Writing down the various songs to download later on my phone takes time, especially when listening through them all individually and deciding which are worth downloading (lixAxel and co.) and which are not (Ange's theme song).

I eagerly await the day I learn how to rip the music files from my copy of the game...

You know what's sad? I actually spent a half hour typing up a hilarious psychoanalysis parodying just how messed up Rowling would be psychologically if she constructed her own personal Hogwarts, and the multiple ways it could show something to be wrong with her.

They just rebuilt a hall. She didn't actually rebuild the mansion and have kids live there. It's no more creepy than designing a mess room that looks like the gathering room at Hogwarts for a bunch of underprivileged kids.

Having a painting is no indication of a cult to someone's personality. It's just a decoration.