I think in order to honestly call someone an internet troll you have to consider their intent. Someone who causes problems solely with the intent of bothering others or inciting malcontent is a troll. Someone who just has poor social skills and/or engages in narcissistic behavior isn’t really a troll, per se, and could even be suffering from real mental issues as noted above. They’re just not a very nice person.

In practice, however, the distinction probably doesn’t matter very much except that the second category of individual can be helpful/useful on occasion if the rest of us can stand to deal with them.

I think in order to honestly call someone an internet troll you have to consider their intent. Someone who causes problems solely with the intent of bothering others or inciting malcontent is a troll. Someone who just has poor social skills and/or engages in narcissistic behavior isn’t really a troll, per se, and could even be suffering from real mental issues as noted above. They’re just not a very nice person.

In practice, however, the distinction probably doesn’t matter very much except that the second category of individual can be helpful/useful on occasion if the rest of us can stand to deal with them.

This is the slippery slope of tolerance toward others all the while, hoping for a reward. Some people are truly socially deficit, as in having a disorder such as aspergers or other such real issues.

Others are just passive aggressive asses, who like to stir the pot.

I can deal with the first, as I have tolerance for things outside of their control.

I will not deal with the second, as they know better, but choose to participate while stirring the pot. We tend to try and tolerate the second kind in hope of some reward in the form of knowledge or insight, but to me the price of tolerating that personality type is not worth it.

Basically the premise for allowing seemingly smart people to “soft” troll the forum is that there are no nice smart people that will treat us with respect. They are smart enough to not overtly troll, or they would be gone ASAP. Soft trolling is the nice/mean/forget-what-I-said/you -misunderstand-me game that they play…

Toykeeper, TomE and several others blow that premise out of the water for me…

Ditch the disrespectful ones, no matter how smart they may sound…. True smarts have some social ability to get along with others…

I’m not disagreeing with you RemanG. In fact I said much the same thing, with less detail, when I said that the distinction probably didn’t matter. I was just trying to answer the question Can asked a few comments earlier, because the label “Internet troll” is a real thing with a real definition that often gets used inappropriately. A troublemaker who’s just in it for mischief is a troll – an asshole is just an asshole (simplifying things, of course, and not printing fingers…)

Ditch the disrespectful ones, no matter how smart they may sound…. True smarts have some social ability to get along with others…

I somewhat disagree.

There are some people, who are complete a-holes, but still have useful information and are worth reading for that. There’s one on the CPF forum (okay, there may be more than one a-hole there), which is a total jerk to everyone, but he’s also very smart and posts a lot of useful information (in a very rude and condescending way).

He’s difficult to read, because it’s so easy to hate him, but if you can ignore the crap he spews, you can actually learn a lot. Sure, it’s maddening, and I’m sure he’s been blocked a lot, but tolerance does have its rewards.

So, I wouldn’t call him a troll, but I’m sure many others would classify him as one. To me, a troll never posts useful information, and usually just posts useless or misleading info.

I’m not disagreeing with you RemanG. In fact I said much the same thing, with less detail, when I said that the distinction probably didn’t matter. I was just trying to answer the question Can asked a few comments earlier, because the label “Internet troll” is a real thing with a real definition that often gets used inappropriately. A troublemaker who’s just in it for mischief is a troll – an asshole is just an asshole (simplifying things, of course, and not printing fingers…)

Again, probably doesn’t matter, but it’s a true distinction.

That’s quite true.

Some people are intelligent, and yet very gifted in pointing not so intelligent people to the truth in a manner in which all benefit.

Some people are intelligent and get off pointing out where the not so intelligent are wrong, delight in public shaming as it were.

Others, while sincere, are sometimes sincerely wrong, and don’t wish to hear the truth from anyone. I’ve seen it here and other forums as well, folks who are quantifiably wrong yet cannot stomach being told so in any manner, polite or otherwise.

I’m not disagreeing at all, I’m just saying while they may not be trolls in the sense we’re talking about here, their behavior has much the same result.

It’s not as bad here as other places on the net, one forum in particular is known for running off SME’s by the boatload due to the aforementioned behavior.

Trolling is a narcissistic activity… There is apparently no benefit in trolling if you are not narcissistic, so non narcissistic people do not engage in the activity.

Ergo, all trolls are narcissists.

No doubt true. However, those who engage trolls are likely narcissists as well. I don’t think trolls are really interested in going after quiet, nice, people. They want to upset loudmouths just like them. I don’t really see a big distinction between the troll that starts the fight, and their targets that won’t drop the fight.

Trolling is a narcissistic activity… There is apparently no benefit in trolling if you are not narcissistic, so non narcissistic people do not engage in the activity.

Ergo, all trolls are narcissists.

No doubt true. However, those who engage trolls are likely narcissists as well. I don’t think trolls are really interested in going after quiet, nice, people. They want to upset loudmouths just like them. I don’t really see a big distinction between the troll that starts the fight, and their targets that won’t drop the fight.

Wow……. well said!!!

Epic in fact.…..

That statement is surely one for us all to consider ‘WITL’.
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edit: to add “us” in last sentence.

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You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant

Trolling is a narcissistic activity… There is apparently no benefit in trolling if you are not narcissistic, so non narcissistic people do not engage in the activity.

Ergo, all trolls are narcissists.

No doubt true. However, those who engage trolls are likely narcissists as well. I don’t think trolls are really interested in going after quiet, nice, people. They want to upset loudmouths just like them. I don’t really see a big distinction between the troll that starts the fight, and their targets that won’t drop the fight.

I respect your opinion but I don’t entirely agree.
I don’t disagree with ReManG’s statement but by your following comment and this simplified view you’re essentially lumping trolls and those who challenge them into one basket. I realize that the end result of both is unnecessary added drama to a forum but I did not always know this and did not recognize trolls for what they were. Considering the diversity in the age group that makes up this great forum I personally believe it’s important to factor in that “trolls” are relatively new to some of us. I have learned to restrain myself more now that I understand “troll theory” but that was not always the case. In earlier times (not very long ago) I was simply responding to unjustified rude behavior purely out of a sense of standing up for what is right and not letting unnecessary cruelty to others go unchecked. A “knight in shining ignorance” if you will. I should trademark that. Has a nice ring to it…

Genuine trolls should not be tolerated and should be reported to SB but as we have one moderator sometimes simply reaching out to someone via PM can make a world of difference. If this person is truly a troll then that will become clear very quickly but I’ve been pleasantly surprised on several occasions when I’ve taken the time to send a PM and tell someone that they might want to rethink a few things and keep it positive. I try to remember this myself as I get worked up at times too and have not always held my tongue. A friend here on the forum sent me a PM complimenting me on not engaging someone who was prodding. That simple encouragement has kept me from saying things that would not have added anything constructive aside from making me feel better in the moment. I think of it every time I want to “unleash” and it helps me to exercise a bit more patience. On several occasions now my non-reaction has resulted in the person who overstepped realizing what they had done and either in the thread or via PM retracting and/or apologizing.

As I am posting in this thread you realize I am not fond of trolls either. That said, if you aren’t absolutely certain you are in fact dealing with a troll it doesn’t hurt to reach out to someone in a PM and say “hey you might want to reign it in a bit”. For any of you who don’t know me you also now know that I talk a lot…

My opinion of this quote is different. No matter your contributions to the forum if it is overshadowed by disrespectful behavior, it is worthless. Why should the jerk be allowed on the forum because he contributes? People like the one described below are ones that I ignore.

WalkIntoTheLight wrote:

ReManG wrote:

Ditch the disrespectful ones, no matter how smart they may sound…. True smarts have some social ability to get along with others…

I somewhat disagree.

There are some people, who are complete a-holes, but still have useful information and are worth reading for that. There’s one on the CPF forum (okay, there may be more than one a-hole there), which is a total jerk to everyone, but he’s also very smart and posts a lot of useful information (in a very rude and condescending way).

He’s difficult to read, because it’s so easy to hate him, but if you can ignore the crap he spews, you can actually learn a lot. Sure, it’s maddening, and I’m sure he’s been blocked a lot, but tolerance does have its rewards.

So, I wouldn’t call him a troll, but I’m sure many others would classify him as one. To me, a troll never posts useful information, and usually just posts useless or misleading info.

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My gratitude to those who are willing and able to help others (in whatever way you can)! Being human is more than just existing for yourself.

Genuine trolls should not be tolerated and should be reported to SB but as we have one moderator sometimes simply reaching out to someone via PM can make a world of difference. If this person is truly a troll then that will become clear very quickly […]

Yep, very true. The trolls invariably react furiously when contacted via PM, and those that were just having a bad day almost always apologize and promise to try to be more careful.

Genuine trolls should not be tolerated and should be reported to SB but as we have one moderator sometimes simply reaching out to someone via PM can make a world of difference. If this person is truly a troll then that will become clear very quickly […]

Yep, very true. The trolls invariably react furiously when contacted via PM, and those that were just having a bad day almost always apologize and promise to try to be more careful.

IMO, many people are far too quick to call “troll” when the read a post that disagrees with them in a harsh manner. I’ve been lurking here for a couple of years, and I’ve yet to see any real trolls. A few rude people, sure, and probably some real trolls that you erased before I saw any sign of them, but mostly this forum seems troll-free.

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of alternative facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists"

Trolling is a narcissistic activity… There is apparently no benefit in trolling if you are not narcissistic, so non narcissistic people do not engage in the activity.

Ergo, all trolls are narcissists.

No doubt true. However, those who engage trolls are likely narcissists as well. I don’t think trolls are really interested in going after quiet, nice, people. They want to upset loudmouths just like them. I don’t really see a big distinction between the troll that starts the fight, and their targets that won’t drop the fight.

I respect your opinion but I don’t entirely agree.
I don’t disagree with ReManG’s statement but by your following comment and this simplified view you’re essentially lumping trolls and those who challenge them into one basket. I realize that the end result of both is unnecessary added drama to a forum but I did not always know this and did not recognize trolls for what they were. Considering the diversity in the age group that makes up this great forum I personally believe it’s important to factor in that “trolls” are relatively new to some of us. I have learned to restrain myself more now that I understand “troll theory” but that was not always the case. In earlier times (not very long ago) I was simply responding to unjustified rude behavior purely out of a sense of standing up for what is right and not letting unnecessary cruelty to others go unchecked. A “knight in shining ignorance” if you will. I should trademark that. Has a nice ring to it…

Genuine trolls should not be tolerated and should be reported to SB but as we have one moderator sometimes simply reaching out to someone via PM can make a world of difference. If this person is truly a troll then that will become clear very quickly but I’ve been pleasantly surprised on several occasions when I’ve taken the time to send a PM and tell someone that they might want to rethink a few things and keep it positive. I try to remember this myself as I get worked up at times too and have not always held my tongue. A friend here on the forum sent me a PM complimenting me on not engaging someone who was prodding. That simple encouragement has kept me from saying things that would not have added anything constructive aside from making me feel better in the moment. I think of it every time I want to “unleash” and it helps me to exercise a bit more patience. On several occasions now my non-reaction has resulted in the person who overstepped realizing what they had done and either in the thread or via PM retracting and/or apologizing.

As I am posting in this thread you realize I am not fond of trolls either. That said, if you aren’t absolutely certain you are in fact dealing with a troll it doesn’t hurt to reach out to someone in a PM and say “hey you might want to reign it in a bit”. For any of you who don’t know me you also now know that I talk a lot…

Yeah brother! (on the talking alot part) But your really good at it! But I have seen cases where something was said, negatively, nobody engaged, and it went on being ignored. Rare as it is, it happens. I try very hard not to engage! It’s just not worth it!

Trolling is a narcissistic activity… There is apparently no benefit in trolling if you are not narcissistic, so non narcissistic people do not engage in the activity.

Ergo, all trolls are narcissists.

No doubt true. However, those who engage trolls are likely narcissists as well. I don’t think trolls are really interested in going after quiet, nice, people. They want to upset loudmouths just like them. I don’t really see a big distinction between the troll that starts the fight, and their targets that won’t drop the fight.

To me what WalkIntoTheLight says here is priceless.
He sums it up perfectly and we would all do well to really think about what he says.

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You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant