I WANT solo content engame because there will be days where I DO NOT want to raid. or PVP( dont do much of that anyways)

should i be punished for wanting to have a day to my self and go off on another adventure after my story is done.

should i be punished because a decent size of community wants to do nothing but raid

should i be punished because i had a bad day and do not really want to raid because i am just not focused on the task of raiding.

I agree this is a MMO game but you also must remember the WORDING of MMO massively MULTI-PLAYER online game.

there are MORE than just raiders in this game and not ALL of us want to be constrained endgame with nothing to do because a portion of the community says that raids should be the end all of endgame. solo PLAYERS want to do something OTHER than raid. some of you say why pay $15 a month to play a solo game, well here is a good reason. that $15 is for playing BOTH solo and GROUP content, the soloists out there want MORE than just raid and pvp endgame, and also here is a familiar phrase "its my $15 a month I will play how i want to play". and you cant use that well its the other peoples money that decide how you play because again its SOLO so it does not concern you.

remember this is a MMO there are more than just RAIDERS who want to have fun in this game and not be stuck sitting in Coruscant or Dromand Kass with thumbs up our arse because we just do not feel like raiding or banging our heads on keyboards from frustration of doing the same daily OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER im sure you guys get the point by know.

that GOD awful system is what killed my love of wow. same dailies, same heroics, same raids, all of the same day after day. TOR has a wonderful opportunity to take its story driven success and keep content rolling for BOTH the raid and solo comnunities.

now as i stated in the SWTOR thread of the same discussion NO abolutly NO should we get raid quality gear from doing solo endgame IF it is something that will be done. if you want to solo then solo, but do not expect to get raid quality gear for doing long and challenging SOLO content.

I myself would LOVE LOVE LOVE solo story endgame content for my trooper and BH cuz i mean really the story does not have to end just cuz we hit lvl 50
I will be a soloist in this game and will raid for the fun of grouping up and doing something great as a team, but there will be days where i do not want to raid and just go kill some Sith screwballs for the sake of killing and would like to have some purpose to it other than killing for fun

while i have no problem with the endgame raid content and devs putting more time and focus on them, we must remember that its is again a MMO. there is MORE than just the raiders out there and those that like to raid AND solo during their play experience within the game. It is very possible to be able to develop content for BOTH aspects of the game and STILL provide quality engaging content for raids and solo.

Devs themselves said that they are constantly looking for story writers for TOR whos to say that these writers must SOLELY develop raid content. WoW did an ok job of trying to do both but they just didnt put too much effort into it and it got stale fast.

while i have no problem with the endgame raid content and devs putting more time and focus on them, we must remember that its is again a MMO. there is MORE than just the raiders out there and those that like to raid AND solo during their play experience within the game. It is very possible to be able to develop content for BOTH aspects of the game and STILL provide quality engaging content for raids and solo.

Devs themselves said that they are constantly looking for story writers for TOR whos to say that these writers must SOLELY develop raid content. WoW did an ok job of trying to do both but they just didnt put too much effort into it and it got stale fast.

I am all for adding more solo quests at endgame, but the tone of the topic of adding more solo content almost always leads into that person asking to actually solo flashpoints or have a dumbed down version of operations just for him to blow through.

That works well in a game where multiplayer doesn't matter, but this is SWTOR we're talking about: where finding ways to get players working together is priority #1. It's the whole point of group dialogue, the whole point of setting up scenarios in the Hammer flashpoint where you can use your team's trade skills to skip packs of mobs, etc...

I am all for adding more solo quests at endgame, but the tone of the topic of adding more solo content almost always leads into that person asking to actually solo flashpoints or have a dumbed down version of operations just for him to blow through.

That works well in a game where multiplayer doesn't matter, but this is SWTOR we're talking about: where finding ways to get players working together is priority #1. It's the whole point of group dialogue, the whole point of setting up scenarios in the Hammer flashpoint where you can use your team's trade skills to skip packs of mobs, etc...

ok i see where your comming from. I agree that solo flashpoints are a DUMB DUMB DUMB idea. I would like to see more class instancing in the solo endgame. in NO WAY should FPs or Ops be dumbed down for soloists. I as a soloist would totally reject TOR if it came to that. just give me more reasons to kill Empire leaders and troops is all i want.

my idea of a good solo endgame experience would be like this. I plan to roll a trooper and would like to have a mission where Command needs me and my Havoc team (me and companion basicly) to go infiltrate this Sith operation somewhere like Tatooine or somewhere. the facility would have a entrance that would be class instanced( using this as a idea) the mobs would be x2 elite and packs would be 3-4 with a end mission objective, say capture enemy data, kill enemy leader, escort a repub prisoner to safety. I do not want a flashpoint type thing, if i want FPs i will group and do them.

Also it can be a story driven arc where we have to go through several quests with dif objectives and end with a mini-boss and get some presence items as rewards.

In the end yea the first is flashpoint like but its simple and not too much effort to create a background behind it and it would not dumb down current FPs to the point of dumbness lol. those types of quests could even be used as a end of story mini FP so the soloists get their FP fix.

I am a trooper the War does not end just because i hit lvl 50. I just want more of a military trooper feel to the endgame when not raiding

You expected heavy difficulty from a duo instance really? I mean outside of completely negating dps in them you would require tank and healer all the time with no in between.

Can't tell if you are disagreeing with me, but you are making my point. If there is no challenge there is no fun. In concept 2 man content is great, it just can't be balanced to make it worth the effort. I just don't see it working.

And BTW there is a huge difference between "heavy difficulty" and faceroll.

I see what you are saying, wowgonebad, I don't think anyone would mind an endless bioware story. While we need to accept that there are non-raiders at endgame, you have to accept the fact that ENDgame is at the end of a normal single player game. Unlimited quests would be nice, but not realistic. And the reason why mmos continue where most single player games end is because people group up at that point and do repeatable raids with each other.

I can see them doing something like what lotro does, which is every now and then push out a patch that continues the story and/or adds on a new questing zone. But most people will just plow through those quests so fast it is almost pointless, is that enough of an endgame for soloers? If the firelands daily quests that came out in 4.2 were just single time quests, would that have been enough for you?
If your answer is yes then that is understandable and very doable.
If your answer is no, then I think you are being a little unrealistic. And I would love to hear a realistic solution to this.

I don't think anyone is against soloers having content to do, they just don't see how it can be done without severely reducing time spent on making new raids/pvp sutff.

Here's an idea, and I think something similar is in place for Bounty Hunter's, but what about class jobs?

You hit max level, which will be 50, and then you can "get a job" from an npc, they will have tasks for you to complete daily, and can range from kill quests, to "go fetch me this" quests. I'm sure Bioware could make them interesting.

Essentially it would be similar to dailies in WoW but with more story behind them so-to-speak.

I see what you are saying, wowgonebad, I don't think anyone would mind an endless bioware story. While we need to accept that there are non-raiders at endgame, you have to accept the fact that ENDgame is at the end of a normal single player game. Unlimited quests would be nice, but not realistic. And the reason why mmos continue where most single player games end is because people group up at that point and do repeatable raids with each other.

I can see them doing something like what lotro does, which is every now and then push out a patch that continues the story and/or adds on a new questing zone. But most people will just plow through those quests so fast it is almost pointless, is that enough of an endgame for soloers? If the firelands daily quests that came out in 4.2 were just single time quests, would that have been enough for you?
If your answer is yes then that is understandable and very doable.
If your answer is no, then I think you are being a little unrealistic. And I would love to hear a realistic solution to this.

I don't think anyone is against soloers having content to do, they just don't see how it can be done without severely reducing time spent on making new raids/pvp sutff.

I am not all that against repeatable quests up to a point. i mean yea BW has to keep the endgame raids going i understand that and do not mind if i grind a endgame story for a month or so. but in the end this game has the capability to keep stories going since the timeline has no lore to go through. Also the stories if they get made endgame can lead up to new raids. I am not saying to JUST cater to the solos, i WANT raids as well as solo stories after endgame.

As you say ENDgame is endgame but realistically speaking MMOs HAVE NO endgame... so there is no reason stories can keep going for solo as well as raids. I love raids they are fun especially when its with people you have developed friendships during the leveling process. but this is all up to BW in the end.

Originally Posted by Morros

Here's an idea, and I think something similar is in place for Bounty Hunter's, but what about class jobs?

You hit max level, which will be 50, and then you can "get a job" from an npc, they will have tasks for you to complete daily, and can range from kill quests, to "go fetch me this" quests. I'm sure Bioware could make them interesting.

Essentially it would be similar to dailies in WoW but with more story behind them so-to-speak.

NOW THIS IS WHAT I MEAN!!!! Morros you hit it RIGHT where i wanted to go but couldnt express. BUT they do not need to restrict it to just BHs. there can be class stories that are repeatable randomly each weak with round 10-15 quests that can lead up to a endboss that gives some nice loot.

To expand on it a litte bit more, as I was pressed for time when I posted that.

You would say, have a selection of NPC's scattered across the galaxy that you could potentially work for. Their availability would be dependent on your Light/Dark Side acclimation. So you would choose one, choosing one would be a meaningful choice, because you would be locked into it for a set amount of time. This person would become someone you will deal with a lot, for a while.

Basically you would go work for them. They would offer you quests, missions, etc, and you would do them for a profit, perhaps leading up to some big event that you had to complete, and upon completion you would get an even better reward aside from money.

So let's say you're a Trooper, and you come across an NPC who wants to hire you as a Security Guard for a building or group of people. You would get quests that would be like "Hey we're having an event at this place, we need you to work security and make sure things go as planned." At which point a quest would start and you would patrol this place, and of course you would come across people who would want to crash this party, and you need to defend it.

Or maybe you're a Smuggler, and you come across a man who is looking for a runner. He wants you to make shipping runs for him, maybe the cargo is questionable, maybe it isn't, but you're a Smuggler, you probably have the fastest ship in the galaxy. Now since we can't just go flying around space, the quests would involve problems arising when you pick up the nefarious cargo, or possibly dealing with a security checkpoint, or pirates who want your cargo and are waiting for you at the dropoff point.

Now to keep all this getting repetitive, let's say you could only take on one job at a time, which means one client, boss, whatever the situation may be. You would get a "job" that they want you to do daily. Now say maintenance is once a week, I think it's Monday? Either way, so Tuesday you login and your boss/client, has a problem he needs you to solve, or a job he wants you to do. You would get some quests pertaining to it each day during the course of the week. Maybe 10-12 quests a day or so, all leading up to a climax on the last day of the week. Or maybe every other day, so you wouldn't feel like you have to login everyday just to go to work, but then again, that's exactly what this is "supposed" to be. So then the next week, there is a completely new problem, with new jobs to do for your boss/client.

In my opinion, I would prefer the majority of these quests to be soloable, but rather challenging, and award a good amount of cash, enough that doing this would be like an actual job and you could support yourself with this for the most part. I.E. Repairs, Consumables, etc etc.

Ah I see, so many people have different opinions about what they mean by solo end game that I was just trying to get where you stood. That sounds like a good idea.

And now that I think about it, I dunno if balance really is very important if they don't make it give out raid loot. LotrO has solo-able stuff (skirmishes) that can be scaled up to be run with more people and I didn't really feel bad about the imbalance (my guardian is way better at them than my burglar). They didn't give raid loot either so maybe that is why I didn't care. They gave useful stuff like crafting mats and potions and stuff like that.

To expand on it a litte bit more, as I was pressed for time when I posted that.

You would say, have a selection of NPC's scattered across the galaxy that you could potentially work for. Their availability would be dependent on your Light/Dark Side acclimation. So you would choose one, choosing one would be a meaningful choice, because you would be locked into it for a set amount of time. This person would become someone you will deal with a lot, for a while.

Basically you would go work for them. They would offer you quests, missions, etc, and you would do them for a profit, perhaps leading up to some big event that you had to complete, and upon completion you would get an even better reward aside from money.

So let's say you're a Trooper, and you come across an NPC who wants to hire you as a Security Guard for a building or group of people. You would get quests that would be like "Hey we're having an event at this place, we need you to work security and make sure things go as planned." At which point a quest would start and you would patrol this place, and of course you would come across people who would want to crash this party, and you need to defend it.

Or maybe you're a Smuggler, and you come across a man who is looking for a runner. He wants you to make shipping runs for him, maybe the cargo is questionable, maybe it isn't, but you're a Smuggler, you probably have the fastest ship in the galaxy. Now since we can't just go flying around space, the quests would involve problems arising when you pick up the nefarious cargo, or possibly dealing with a security checkpoint, or pirates who want your cargo and are waiting for you at the dropoff point.

Now to keep all this getting repetitive, let's say you could only take on one job at a time, which means one client, boss, whatever the situation may be. You would get a "job" that they want you to do daily. Now say maintenance is once a week, I think it's Monday? Either way, so Tuesday you login and your boss/client, has a problem he needs you to solve, or a job he wants you to do. You would get some quests pertaining to it each day during the course of the week. Maybe 10-12 quests a day or so, all leading up to a climax on the last day of the week. Or maybe every other day, so you wouldn't feel like you have to login everyday just to go to work, but then again, that's exactly what this is "supposed" to be. So then the next week, there is a completely new problem, with new jobs to do for your boss/client.

In my opinion, I would prefer the majority of these quests to be soloable, but rather challenging, and award a good amount of cash, enough that doing this would be like an actual job and you could support yourself with this for the most part. I.E. Repairs, Consumables, etc etc.

this is a very good setup of what solo endgame could be and its easily supportable. But rather than so many quests a day i would say maybe 10-12 over the course of the week and at end of quest chain you have that event at the end for a decent reward. torftw hits it good with geting crafting mats and in TOR getting stim buffs. you keep up with currnet raid progress in that you will already be in pre-raid gear and you will be bringing your own buffs and mats for raid needs

Originally Posted by torftw

Ah I see, so many people have different opinions about what they mean by solo end game that I was just trying to get where you stood. That sounds like a good idea.

And now that I think about it, I dunno if balance really is very important if they don't make it give out raid loot. LotrO has solo-able stuff (skirmishes) that can be scaled up to be run with more people and I didn't really feel bad about the imbalance (my guardian is way better at them than my burglar). They didn't give raid loot either so maybe that is why I didn't care. They gave useful stuff like crafting mats and potions and stuff like that.

torftw never playes lotro but that sounds like a great loot system for the type of solo play that I am looking for. I HATED HATED HATED WOW during the FL dailies where if you got all your dailies at the end of the week you get just below current(not by much though) raid gear without putting forth any real effort to a raid. if you solo you do not need rad gear if you do then raid. The crafting mats could be put to use to get your endgame gear and schematics maybe as well for presence gear for your companions

I think one thing people aren't taking into consideration is that when you hit level 50 (ie end-game), you will not have completed your class quests (which can be completed solo). Chapter 1 of your class quest ends in the mid-30s - and there are 3 chapters! There will still be plenty of personal story for you to unlock once you hit 50.

I think one thing people aren't taking into consideration is that when you hit level 50 (ie end-game), you will not have completed your class quests (which can be completed solo). Chapter 1 of your class quest ends in the mid-30s - and there are 3 chapters! There will still be plenty of personal story for you to unlock once you hit 50.

If this is true (I haven't seen any official confirmation to the positive or negative) then I greatly welcome it!

Sorry not a fan of this idea because this should be a MMO not a single player game. I can understand leveling being solo but once you get there I think there should be more interaction with the community. It might be cold to say but I really think if you don't want to group with people then MMO's aren't your genre of games. As for those with time constraints and commitments... I had a guy once who could raid only 1 day a week for 3 hours because of his wife&family but he really really wanted to raid. I found a way to get him in :P So where there is a will, there is a way. I believe the LFG/LFR function in WoW has spoiled people and they became dependent on it rather than dependent on themselves to get something done in game.

You can still raid, do group content, do PvP, and generally hang out with pals in the Cantina. I don't think the goal of a system like this is to make it a 1 player MMO. When there are no raids going on, and your friends are offline, this would be ideal. It would allow you to do more than farm or PuG random dungeons. I absolutely cannot see a downside to this system, if implemented.

Obviously, the gear wouldn't be as good as raiding gear. Maybe even not as good as 4-man heroic flashpoint gear. As long as it's useful, with the content being challenging and fun, I'm not as concerned about the reward. Even if it's extra badges, mods, crafting shit, or credits.

This is one of the things that got me with WoW. Before raids and on off-days, I was endlessly circling Org on my mount, nearly falling asleep in my chair. More to do at max level = super win.

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Am I the only that thought solo end game to mean 'stuff to do while at max level that are not leveling quests or repeater dailies' not solo raids, which doesnt really make sense to be honest. I was thinking something more along the lines of content with story that requires a companion, maybe some crafting, traveling, puzzles that are both challenging and fun but not easy or quick to complete.

You could somehow receive gear and items for completing these, perhaps doing these would require some attunement through flashpoints as well just to make sure no one is lonering it up too much. I just want something that only max level characters can do, something genuinely interesting to do at max level that is fun, semi-challenging, and can alter your characters looks but doesn't require a party if you don't want one.

I'm not positive but I have heard that there is an entire planet devoted to non-raiding non-flashpoint end game type material.