First, I don't have Jason's perspective to weigh, but will give him some benefit of doubt. He came across as being stubborn and a bonehead. His shelter in place isolation and stored food may have kept them both alive in the early part of SHTF. His follow up ideas were bad, but he was protective of her by standing watch and having OPSEC concerns for both of their benefits. There's no mention of him being violent with her, just being ignorant of her ideas and reminding her of her father.

Those traits may make surviving harder, but they are not punishable by death.Thus, I don't think Claire needed to kill Jason.

She had options. She could have left with her own stuff, as she did the first time on the bike. She had gardening skills to offer for room and board. She could have approached the situation with Jason using different conflict management methods, such as demonstrating new options and reward. The meal she cooked was an example, but she didn't put any further effort into turning their dynamic around positively in a subtle fashion. Her switch had already gone off.

The murder was a disproportionate response. Her motivation was better tasting food? More social interaction? Being a character from one of her books? Escape from someone? She cast Jason as worthless and he should have been easy to escape from. She saw other people, other options and in her calculus his company was now no longer necessary. She internalized their arguments and that's on her holding onto past demons. She was projecting past anger of her father issues onto her partner, and making him out to be more of a villain with herself as a blameless victim, all in order to rationalize a greater crime. As I noted before, very much a realistic possibility. It happens without SHTF.

With that said, I think her character reads as selfish, an opportunist, perhaps bipolar or otherwise cray cray. She lacks a moral compass and represents a future danger to the community, more so if she encounters conflict with her world view. I wouldn't trust her.

I think the community, if intent on law and order, would and should hold her accountable for murder.

NJMike, thank you very much for your input. I really appreciate it. Based off your critique and observations I clearly did not convey the relationship dynamic as well as I thought I did. The first draft went more into detail about Claire, her parents, the relationship with Jason and how it all started . . . but it felt like I was going down a rabbit hole and questionable if it was adding to the overall storyline or not.

And to be honest, some of it felt like a cliche: mousey, verbally/emotionally abused young lady, limited options, marries a, to use your most excellent words, bonehead who is nearly carbon copy of her father. There is a lot of psychology there.After years and years of continued verbal/emotional abuse, during the SHTF, she snaps. Again, feels like a cliche.

You have given me something to think about for future posts.

Thank you again.

Beware of the guy with only one Cast Iron pan . . . he likely knows how to use it.

Cast Iron wrote:NJMike, thank you very much for your input. I really appreciate it. Based off your critique and observations I clearly did not convey the relationship dynamic as well as I thought I did. The first draft went more into detail about Claire, her parents, the relationship with Jason and how it all started . . . but it felt like I was going down a rabbit hole and questionable if it was adding to the overall storyline or not.

And to be honest, some of it felt like a cliche: mousey, verbally/emotionally abused young lady, limited options, marries a, to use your most excellent words, bonehead who is nearly carbon copy of her father. There is a lot of psychology there.After years and years of continued verbal/emotional abuse, during the SHTF, she snaps. Again, feels like a cliche.

You have given me something to think about for future posts.

Thank you again.

You're welcome. I enjoyed the read. I'd say cliches are cliches because they happen often enough to resonate with people and past experiences. That doesn't mean a cliched character is bad in the story if done properly. If I drew an incorrect cliched conclusion from your intent, that's based on my life experiences. You still created a character in Claire deep enough in a few short passages to get a reaction out of me.

Cast Iron wrote:NJMike, thank you very much for your input. I really appreciate it. Based off your critique and observations I clearly did not convey the relationship dynamic as well as I thought I did. The first draft went more into detail about Claire, her parents, the relationship with Jason and how it all started . . . but it felt like I was going down a rabbit hole and questionable if it was adding to the overall storyline or not.

And to be honest, some of it felt like a cliche: mousey, verbally/emotionally abused young lady, limited options, marries a, to use your most excellent words, bonehead who is nearly carbon copy of her father. There is a lot of psychology there.After years and years of continued verbal/emotional abuse, during the SHTF, she snaps. Again, feels like a cliche.

You have given me something to think about for future posts.

Thank you again.

You're welcome. I enjoyed the read. I'd say cliches are cliches because they happen often enough to resonate with people and past experiences. That doesn't mean a cliched character is bad in the story if done properly. If I drew an incorrect cliched conclusion from your intent, that's based on my life experiences. You still created a character in Claire deep enough in a few short passages to get a reaction out of me.

Thank you again NJMike.I may use conversations in the future to give a better background story to develop Claire. Maybe even tempt a cliche.

Beware of the guy with only one Cast Iron pan . . . he likely knows how to use it.

IceFire wrote:I like Claire. Jason definitely needed to go, but I'm kind of sorry that she was the one who had to do it.

Thank you IceFire for continuing to read and comment. I appreciate the feed back.

May I ask what is your "feel" you get from Claire? What kind of person do you think she is?

What I get from Claire is that she has been emotionally/verbally abused, first by her father, and then by Jason. (ason, btw, gave me the impression of the "mall ninja" type...while they had SOME food preps (which I'm betting was more Claire's doing than his) he was more into the "tacticool" aspect, and pretending to be "on guard" while SHE did all the work. Claire is actually stronger than she thinks she is but the constant emotional abuse, topped off by the stresses of the "SHTF" event caused her to "snap" after reaching her breaking point.

Thing about emotional abusers is that they frequently escalate into physical abuse: I get the sense that her father may have gotten to that stage, and that Jason was quickly getting to that point (if he hadn't already.) Claire's response was the kind that is seen with "battered woman syndrome".

(Sorry, the stuff I learned in my psych classes may be causing me to over-analyze)

IceFire wrote:I like Claire. Jason definitely needed to go, but I'm kind of sorry that she was the one who had to do it.

Thank you IceFire for continuing to read and comment. I appreciate the feed back.

May I ask what is your "feel" you get from Claire? What kind of person do you think she is?

What I get from Claire is that she has been emotionally/verbally abused, first by her father, and then by Jason. (ason, btw, gave me the impression of the "mall ninja" type...while they had SOME food preps (which I'm betting was more Claire's doing than his) he was more into the "tacticool" aspect, and pretending to be "on guard" while SHE did all the work. Claire is actually stronger than she thinks she is but the constant emotional abuse, topped off by the stresses of the "SHTF" event caused her to "snap" after reaching her breaking point.

Thing about emotional abusers is that they frequently escalate into physical abuse: I get the sense that her father may have gotten to that stage, and that Jason was quickly getting to that point (if he hadn't already.) Claire's response was the kind that is seen with "battered woman syndrome".

(Sorry, the stuff I learned in my psych classes may be causing me to over-analyze)

IceFire, your post was exactly what I was trying to convey. I felt I may have been too subtle in that attempt, hence the reason why I posed the question.

However, I still feel I should have been more descriptive to ensure that was how the reader would see Claire. As NJMike aptly points out, each persons experience can color a reading.

The initial Claire draft was darker and even somewhat went down physical abuse path, but I found it too distasteful and off putting and deleted that draft outright.

Again, I may use future conversations to add more to Claire.But right now I have a war to plot.

Beware of the guy with only one Cast Iron pan . . . he likely knows how to use it.

My take on Claire was the same as Ice's. I was glad when it appeared she had finally had 'Enough' but thought her reaction was over the top. I really felt for Claire and I guess I wanted her to be a bit more clever. As my thoughts sped ahead of my reading, I envisioned seeing the tides turn as she began to stand up to her jackazz partner. If she knew how to garden, her mother likely taught her many more useful things that would help them survive (maybe plant identification, food preservation, making soap, etc.). She could have used that against Jason. It would have been fun to see her handing him a job list, instead of her doing everything. Although, Jason probably would have stormed off in search for another weak woman he could control. He's that type.

LetsPrep11 wrote:My take on Claire was the same as Ice's. I was glad when it appeared she had finally had 'Enough' but thought her reaction was over the top. I really felt for Claire and I guess I wanted her to be a bit more clever. As my thoughts sped ahead of my reading, I envisioned seeing the tides turn as she began to stand up to her jackazz partner. If she knew how to garden, her mother likely taught her many more useful things that would help them survive (maybe plant identification, food preservation, making soap, etc.). She could have used that against Jason. It would have been fun to see her handing him a job list, instead of her doing everything. Although, Jason probably would have stormed off in search for another weak woman he could control. He's that type.

Still loving the story! Keep it coming.

Thank you LetsPrep for your input and insight.

I appreciate it.

Beware of the guy with only one Cast Iron pan . . . he likely knows how to use it.

Really enjoying this story so far thank you for your hard work! Claire's response in today's world would definitely be over the top, however post shtf... I can see it being necessary there are no shelters to disappear into and not a lot of law enforcement available.

Fightheat wrote:Really enjoying this story so far thank you for your hard work! Claire's response in today's world would definitely be over the top, however post shtf... I can see it being necessary there are no shelters to disappear into and not a lot of law enforcement available.

Thank you FightHeat for your feedback.

The next chapter is proving to be more difficult than I anticipated.

I am still working on it though.

Beware of the guy with only one Cast Iron pan . . . he likely knows how to use it.

1st....damn you.....lol. My mornings consist of a good cup of coffee, browsing this forum, a few news sights, the markets, and then off to work... I haven't checked your story for a while and it sucked me in. No news, markets, or other sites this AM and now I'm late for my day....You sucked me in entirely and I couldn't stop reading......I blame you entirely.

2nd.....the reading is excellent. Same as my first assessment. You have a winner here. Keep it up. Do whatever you want with it, but put it to paper. This one needs writing.

3rd..... You do as you want OF COURSE...You are the writer and go with your gut as I've already told you that you have a winner here but IMO(which matters nothing)Just feedback here as you seem to enjoy getting it along the way.(I don't think I could do it that way. I'd release all after hours of self-criticism...lol).......The tacticool spot....great action writing but if going that deep into tactical description, spread it out with bits here and there if adding that element to a given character or book....In the first few paragraphs where it got REALLY descriptive on individual carry out I browsed right over it getting to the action...Too technical....some is excellent, but too much starts to read like a manual if built up in one area....As you backed off the gear description and the action heated up, you pulled it off.

Clair----a small sign of physical abuse would give the reader sympathy for her actions if that's where you want to go before she Off's Jason(If she actually did...It's implied right now, but not fact...yet.) As it is, she unstable and not going to be welcomed(logically) into the new society.....bats' in the bell tower my friend. Jason has done NOTHING but help her as misguided as his intentions are. There is no physical abuse and she's not being held against her will......As it sits right now Clair is a criminal.....if that's you're intent then I see Clair being hesitantly admitted into town(If at all), and then a loose cannon that's more and more unstable that creates problems from here......Excellent character development regardless of the direction.

My $.02 my friend but it really doesn't matter what I think......This is yours. and its amazing...really. You're pulling me into a world against my will as I'm into book 3 of a 4 book series and cant stand mixing fiction until I've completed the series......Well done CI.

In honor of RebNavy...RIP buddy. You made me smile.

Postby rebnavy1862 » Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:00 pm Driven, are you sure you are from Kalifornia? You make a lot of sense.Reb"Then call us Rebels if you will, we glory in the name, for bending under unjust laws and swearing faith to an unjust cause, we count as greater shame". Richmond Daily Dispatch May 12 1862Semper Fi, Sic Semper Tyrannis, Remember The Alamo, and Aide'toi et Dieu T'aidera!

1st....damn you.....lol. My mornings consist of a good cup of coffee, browsing this forum, a few news sights, the markets, and then off to work... I haven't checked your story for a while and it sucked me in. No news, markets, or other sites this AM and now I'm late for my day....You sucked me in entirely and I couldn't stop reading......I blame you entirely.

2nd.....the reading is excellent. Same as my first assessment. You have a winner here. Keep it up. Do whatever you want with it, but put it to paper. This one needs writing.

3rd..... You do as you want OF COURSE...You are the writer and go with your gut as I've already told you that you have a winner here but IMO(which matters nothing)Just feedback here as you seem to enjoy getting it along the way.(I don't think I could do it that way. I'd release all after hours of self-criticism...lol).......The tacticool spot....great action writing but if going that deep into tactical description, spread it out with bits here and there if adding that element to a given character or book....In the first few paragraphs where it got REALLY descriptive on individual carry out I browsed right over it getting to the action...Too technical....some is excellent, but too much starts to read like a manual if built up in one area....As you backed off the gear description and the action heated up, you pulled it off.

Clair----a small sign of physical abuse would give the reader sympathy for her actions if that's where you want to go before she Off's Jason(If she actually did...It's implied right now, but not fact...yet.) As it is, she unstable and not going to be welcomed(logically) into the new society.....bats' in the bell tower my friend. Jason has done NOTHING but help her as misguided as his intentions are. There is no physical abuse and she's not being held against her will......As it sits right now Clair is a criminal.....if that's you're intent then I see Clair being hesitantly admitted into town(If at all), and then a loose cannon that's more and more unstable that creates problems from here......Excellent character development regardless of the direction.

My $.02 my friend but it really doesn't matter what I think......This is yours. and its amazing...really. You're pulling me into a world against my will as I'm into book 3 of a 4 book series and cant stand mixing fiction until I've completed the series......Well done CI.

DR1VEN,

I will gladly accept the responsibility for your tardiness to work. If it will smooth things over with your boss, I will write you a note.

As always, I appreciate your feedback and input. The fact I pulled you, and others, into the world I have created gives me inspiration.

The tacti-cool edition, it was more of a blatant jab at the tacti-cool crowd. I have a co-worker who blathers on about all things tacti-cool, life staw, and tampons like he is some kind of expert, but can not find his way out of a paper bag without a GPS.

Claire . . . I think she needs additional back ground work. And I will get to it.But first, I am still sorting out the war.

Thank you again for your comments and input.

Beware of the guy with only one Cast Iron pan . . . he likely knows how to use it.

Great story beginning but it is time to stop psychoanalyzing and get on with YOUR story. You now have several idea suggestions on where to take Clair's character so put one knee in your little red wagon and let's git r done.

Raym0nd wrote:Great story beginning but it is time to stop psychoanalyzing and get on with YOUR story. You now have several idea suggestions on where to take Clair's character so put one knee in your little red wagon and let's git r done.

I agree Raym0nd.

I have made additional notes to the Claire outline for future reference. Otherwise, put her aside for now.

The next part requires a bit more thought. Character development can be a chore sometimes. I do not want some cookie cutter, stereotype. I think that would disappoint you, and betray the spirit of the story. Getting the dialog right is also key. Conversations should have a natural feel. Not forced, or too Hollywood.

Beware of the guy with only one Cast Iron pan . . . he likely knows how to use it.