Wow. I've been away for a couple months and see people are still attempting to have the same discussion. There is nothing wrong with that, but some seem to feel that truth must yield to ignorance to spare injury to the delicate sensibilities of a few among us. I've been down this road before on this forum, and yet I still can't understand why people are so thin skinned about what others believe.

Any false religious teaching is apostasy, so naturally if there is a belief that doesn't square with my understanding of scripture, I will believe it is from an apostate religion. What's so wrong with stating it? I know for a fact that many wont agree with my beliefs, and if they want to label me apostate it wont hurt me a bit. Why should it? My faith is not damaged by the opinion of others. The thing is, to stifle such discussions may be doing a grave disservice to some. Do not doubt for a minute that many people in this world will spend eternity in hell. With so many conflicting beliefs, some beliefs must be false. Discussions like this may be the vehicle by which someone might see the truth.

With all that in mind, let me just say that a prerequisite of being a born again follower of Jesus Christ is knowing His Father. If you don't know the Father, you don't know the Son. His Father is the one eternal, omnipotent, omnicient, and omnipresent creator of all that is. To believe otherwise is to disqualify oneself as a Christian. Many believe in the man Jesus Christ, but deny His divinity, such as Muslims. Obviously Muslims are not Christian. Likewise, many claim a belief in God but deny His attributes as revealed in His Word. GOD THE FATHER WAS NOT A CREATED BEING. Teaching that He was, is heresy and blasphemy.

I will not pronounce damnation or salvation on any individual, but I will proclaim the truth of holy scriptures and the curse it places on any teaching which denies that truth. Anyone following a 19th century false prophet/science fiction writer is not a Christian. I don't care what label they place on themselves. This is my belief. If you disagree, that's fine. It's your right. No reason to be offended.

"You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God."
-Jesus

Double D is right on this. At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage. The marriage covenant is "until death," not "for all eternity."
Jesus addressed this, and Matthew recorded it. Check out chapter 22.

Wow. I've been away for a couple months and see people are still attempting to have the same discussion. There is nothing wrong with that, but some seem to feel that truth must yield to ignorance to spare injury to the delicate sensibilities of a few among us. I've been down this road before on this forum, and yet I still can't understand why people are so thin skinned about what others believe.

Any false religious teaching is apostasy, so naturally if there is a belief that doesn't square with my understanding of scripture, I will believe it is from an apostate religion. What's so wrong with stating it? I know for a fact that many wont agree with my beliefs, and if they want to label me apostate it wont hurt me a bit. Why should it? My faith is not damaged by the opinion of others. The thing is, to stifle such discussions may be doing a grave disservice to some. Do not doubt for a minute that many people in this world will spend eternity in hell. With so many conflicting beliefs, some beliefs must be false. Discussions like this may be the vehicle by which someone might see the truth.

With all that in mind, let me just say that a prerequisite of being a born again follower of Jesus Christ is knowing His Father. If you don't know the Father, you don't know the Son. His Father is the one eternal, omnipotent, omnicient, and omnipresent creator of all that is. To believe otherwise is to disqualify oneself as a Christian. Many believe in the man Jesus Christ, but deny His divinity, such as Muslims. Obviously Muslims are not Christian. Likewise, many claim a belief in God but deny His attributes as revealed in His Word. GOD THE FATHER WAS NOT A CREATED BEING. Teaching that He was, is heresy and blasphemy.

I will not pronounce damnation or salvation on any individual, but I will proclaim the truth of holy scriptures and the curse it places on any teaching which denies that truth. Anyone following a 19th century false prophet/science fiction writer is not a Christian. I don't care what label they place on themselves. This is my belief. If you disagree, that's fine. It's your right. No reason to be offended.

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ROMT;

We agree that many Mormons, JWs, and many other self-proclaimed Christian groups teach "a gospel other than the one" taught by Christ's apostles. (Cf. Galatians 1:8-9)

It is not the official policy of TFF that you cannot say that it is a different gospel. If it weren't different, they wouldn't come to forums and such to try to argue that theirs is a mainstream Christian belief system because they wouldn't have to. Does anyone here know my denominational background? Terry may remember it because I've told him, but I'm not sure anyone would otherwise know. Any idea if I'm Baptist or a Mennonite? Lutheran? Calvinist? Pentecostal or Anglican? Among those groups, practices and understandings are sometimes a bit different, but we all believe the same core stuff.

The LDS church has some different core. It is a different gospel. They know it and admit it openly. They tell us that the gospel that has been presented to us has been corrupted and is different than what Jesus taught, that the Bible has been mistranslated and misinterpreted for centuries. They believe that our gospel is a bit off.

It's not surprising, then, that we would believe their gospel is off. We all agree that there are differences.

The policy here at TFF is that you can't tell anyone that their religion is a "cult" or that they themselves are "not Christian." That's when it moves from a discussion of differences to a condemnation of people. That's what is not allowed.

Seems like a minor difference, perhaps, but it is a major thing in sustaining a community.

"You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God."
-Jesus

Double D is right on this. At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage. The marriage covenant is "until death," not "for all eternity."
Jesus addressed this, and Matthew recorded it. Check out chapter 22.

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Amen

Also, here's something that occurred to me regarding this nonsense that Christ was united in an earthly marriage to a particular woman. This would make Christ an adulterer, since the church is His bride. He will be married only once.

We agree that many Mormons, JWs, and many other self-proclaimed Christian groups teach "a gospel other than the one" taught by Christ's apostles. (Cf. Galatians 1:8-9)

It is not the official policy of TFF that you cannot say that it is a different gospel. If it weren't different, they wouldn't come to forums and such to try to argue that theirs is a mainstream Christian belief system because they wouldn't have to. Does anyone here know my denominational background? Terry may remember it because I've told him, but I'm not sure anyone would otherwise know. Any idea if I'm Baptist or a Mennonite? Lutheran? Calvinist? Pentecostal or Anglican? Among those groups, practices and understandings are sometimes a bit different, but we all believe the same core stuff.

The LDS church has some different core. It is a different gospel. They know it and admit it openly. They tell us that the gospel that has been presented to us has been corrupted and is different than what Jesus taught, that the Bible has been mistranslated and misinterpreted for centuries. They believe that our gospel is a bit off.

It's not surprising, then, that we would believe their gospel is off. We all agree that there are differences.

The policy here at TFF is that you can't tell anyone that their religion is a "cult" or that they themselves are "not Christian." That's when it moves from a discussion of differences to a condemnation of people. That's what is not allowed.

Seems like a minor difference, perhaps, but it is a major thing in sustaining a community.

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Josh, As with discussions I've had with Terry, I understand your point to an extent, but then again I don't. If it's permissible to state ones beliefs, and part of ones beliefs is the belief about what defines a Christian, how is it not acceptable to state it?

Wait, OK, you are saying that you can state what beliefs define a Christian, but you just can't specify who doesn't meet that definition?

P.S. Just wanted to state once again that I hold no ill will toward Mormon. They seem to me, to a man (or woman), to always be well behaved men and women of character. It was never my intention to pronounce condemnation on any individual, only on a doctrine. It is my hope that all would accept the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

As this discussion applies to the upcoming election, Mitt Romney's faith will not keep me from voting for him. As one of my favorite pastors, John MacArthur, said recently, " You're voting for president, not pastor".

I deleted this out of respect for Pastor Terry. To answer the question, I have no interest in debating the issue with you. I do not believe in your religion and have plenty of good reason not to.

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VEry well. But I had no idea you were looking for a debate. You simply stated that you consider the Mormon view of Satan to be nonbelievable. I'm fine with that. I was just wondering what your beliefs were with respect to Satan. I have no interest in "debating" about who's belief is "true."

However I will correct anyone who makes (false) claims about what Mormons believe.

It is? If you say so. But I personally know hundreds of people who have made covenants with God and have kept them. Essentially the whole Old Testament is about God making covenants with his people. Noah covenanted with God. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob covenanted with God and the rest of the old testament is an account of the success and failure of the following generations to keep that covenant.

So if Jesus Christ dies as the new covenant then who am I to assume that I as a human can "Make or keep" a covenant with Jesus? That busts this theory.

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Fascinating. I had no idea, not the slightest clue, that some folks believe that covenants are one way only. I always viewed covenants as two way, between God and man, and between man and God. God ALWAYS keeps his end of the covenant. Man, much less so.

But I believe I can covenant to take upon me Christ's name through baptism. And that by striving to keep that covenant my heart will be changed, I can become a "new man", and be accepted of him.

Our best works are merely trash so how in the world can we obtain a covenant because we deem our selves righteous. I am sorry but it isn't me that can fill that boot.

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I did not follow that at all.

Maybe the problem is one of definition. Perhaps your definition of covenant is different than mine. To me a covenant is two-way promise. God makes promises to me and I make promises to God. I don't see that as being "self-righteous" at all. To me that's the heart and soul of Christianity: to strive to shake off the natural man and put on the new man. If I strive to keep my side of the covenant, my offering will be acceptable to God and he will change my heart. And a changed heart is the only way we have to accept the gift of salvation and exaltation He offers.

It is? If you say so. But I personally know hundreds of people who have made covenants with God and have kept them. Essentially the whole Old Testament is about God making covenants with his people. Noah covenanted with God. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob covenanted with God and the rest of the old testament is an account of the success and failure of the following generations to keep that covenant.

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The covenant of Jesus' blood is the new covenant that renders the old testement obsolete. There is but one covenant between man and God and it is Jesus' blood.

And this is why I no longer visit the religious forum. Ever since my last argument I got in with a guy who's no longer a member. Every doctrine reads something different from the bible. I for one am Pentecostal. We believe in speaking in tongues. Some call us evil for this. If you are one of those you can p!$$ off right now, don't want to hear it. We also believe in the trinity, however we believe the trinity to be 3 separate beings. We do not believe that Jesus is GOD. We believe that GOD is GOD, and that Jesus is his son. Don't like that either, tough, don't want to hear how we're wrong on that either. Your not gonna convince me anyways. And just so you know, I have just as many scriptures proving my point as you do proving yours. Ok

We will all know soon enough. True not all doctrines can be correct. However I don't believe the path to heaven follows a doctrine. I believe it follows Jesus Christ.

When all of us that follow Christ are in heaven we can all get together and say na na na na na I was right and you were wrong

And now that I have made my tri-monthly trek to the religious forums I am going back to the rest of the board. Keep arguing guys, I can see your really making headway

You can prove anything you want to from the scriptures, as long as you take them out of context! That is why there are so many different bibles, religions, and doctrines! How many people really know how to devide the Word of God? Everybody?

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