Question: Even with sideloading, how do you get your hands on said app file? Only iOS actually downloads a file permanently on your computer hard drive so you can still use an app even if Apple has removed the app from the store.

There are more issues with app stores than "OMG KILL SWITCH".

you can use titanium backup, file expert, etc on a nexus or other device that supports rooting to extract the APK (which is not illegal or illegitimate on such devices), or the app provider can just make the app available on his website. if its a paid app, he could require proof of payment or make it a demo version, only usable until the situation is resolved. or if he's going out of businesses or being sold, he could relicense it as freeware (abandonware) like so many windows apps do when their owners die.also, you are goalposts moving from "its trolling" to "its one of many problems, and Google has at least some tiny element of the problem", which is a big movement

Sure, but it's not just a Microsoft problem, it's any app store with a kill switch.

Yes, any app store with a kill switch and no sideloading. Google's app store has sideloading, Mac OS X has sideloading, and I hate iOS (which doesn't). It is an iOS problem too.If sideloading exists, you can just get the app that way like you would in the olden days pre-app-stores.Windows 8 _DOES NOT_ have sideloading.

Question: Even with sideloading, how do you get your hands on said app file? Only iOS actually downloads a file permanently on your computer hard drive so you can still use an app even if Apple has removed the app from the store.

There are more issues with app stores than "OMG KILL SWITCH".

you can use titanium backup, file expert, etc on a nexus or other device that supports rooting to extract the APK (which is not illegal or illegitimate on such devices), or the app provider can just make the app available on his website. if its a paid app, he could require proof of payment or make it a demo version, only usable until the situation is resolved. or if he's going out of businesses or being sold, he could relicense it as freeware (abandonware) like so many windows apps do when their owners die.also, you are goalposts moving from "its trolling" to "its one of many problems, and Google has at least some tiny element of the problem", which is a big movement

whm is a troll. Full stop. We're just lucky to have gotten some decent discussion out of it.My position is your initial post relies on Microsoft being unethical with it's kill switch. Two years of Windows Phone with a kill switch and it shows that they haven't abused it or even used it.So you have a bunch of workarounds to get to the files. If I "root" my Windows Phone, I can get at the files too for backup and restore. And we're talking Windows here. The apps are stored in your local AppData folder. Both RT and Windows 8 have access to a full File Explorer. Go wild.

whm is a troll. Full stop. We're just lucky to have gotten some decent discussion out of it.My position is your initial post relies on Microsoft being unethical with it's kill switch. Two years of Windows Phone with a kill switch and it shows that they haven't abused it or even used it.

whm is a troll. Full stop. We're just lucky to have gotten some decent discussion out of it.My position is your initial post relies on Microsoft being unethical with it's kill switch. Two years of Windows Phone with a kill switch and it shows that they haven't abused it or even used it.

Sure, but it's not just a Microsoft problem, it's any app store with a kill switch.

Yes, any app store with a kill switch and no sideloading. Google's app store has sideloading, Mac OS X has sideloading, and I hate iOS (which doesn't). It is an iOS problem too.If sideloading exists, you can just get the app that way like you would in the olden days pre-app-stores.Windows 8 _DOES NOT_ have sideloading.

Question: Even with sideloading, how do you get your hands on said app file? Only iOS actually downloads a file permanently on your computer hard drive so you can still use an app even if Apple has removed the app from the store.

There are more issues with app stores than "OMG KILL SWITCH".

you can use titanium backup, file expert, etc on a nexus or other device that supports rooting to extract the APK (which is not illegal or illegitimate on such devices), or the app provider can just make the app available on his website. if its a paid app, he could require proof of payment or make it a demo version, only usable until the situation is resolved. or if he's going out of businesses or being sold, he could relicense it as freeware (abandonware) like so many windows apps do when their owners die.also, you are goalposts moving from "its trolling" to "its one of many problems, and Google has at least some tiny element of the problem", which is a big movement

whm is a troll. Full stop. We're just lucky to have gotten some decent discussion out of it.My position is your initial post relies on Microsoft being unethical with it's kill switch. Two years of Windows Phone with a kill switch and it shows that they haven't abused it or even used it.So you have a bunch of workarounds to get to the files. If I "root" my Windows Phone, I can get at the files too for backup and restore. And we're talking Windows here. The apps are stored in your local AppData folder. Both RT and Windows 8 have access to a full File Explorer. Go wild.

it's not a workaround if the files are on the developer's website.A good developer keeps them there anyway for customers without the Play Store for some reaosn (say, tablet without Google Apps.) If the developer doesn't he can upload them when the problem occurs as a timed demo and take em down when the problem ends. there's options. You could even make a business as a app developer with these optinos, since sideloading is fully supported. Not so with windows 8.

Sure, but it's not just a Microsoft problem, it's any app store with a kill switch.

Yes, any app store with a kill switch and no sideloading. Google's app store has sideloading, Mac OS X has sideloading, and I hate iOS (which doesn't). It is an iOS problem too.If sideloading exists, you can just get the app that way like you would in the olden days pre-app-stores.Windows 8 _DOES NOT_ have sideloading.

The same way Windows 7 does. Unless you're specifically talking about access to the Metro features.

I'm talking about metro apps. And if an app is killed and the developers' cryptographic signature removed how do you do it? can you tell windows to just trust things that aren't safe? This isn't a car or a nuclear warhead. I can be trusted to install an app without a fucking 510013834543-bit doublel verified Verisign RSA key. It's MY COMPUTER and MY COPY OF THE OS.

Not knowing the details aside, this is pure and simple bullshit. I will be keeping an eye on this one over the next several days for more complete information (it was referenced by Gruber, so it ought to get some attention). But if I do not see proper resolution or a suitable explanation, I will be permanently canceling my Amazon account, as well as warning all those I know about it. Thats how you take care of problems like that.

But if I do not see proper resolution or a suitable explanation, I will be permanently canceling my Amazon account, as well as warning all those I know about it. Thats how you take care of problems like that.

But if I do not see proper resolution or a suitable explanation, I will be permanently canceling my Amazon account, as well as warning all those I know about it. Thats how you take care of problems like that.

Not knowing the details aside, this is pure and simple bullshit. I will be keeping an eye on this one over the next several days for more complete information (it was referenced by Gruber, so it ought to get some attention). But if I do not see proper resolution or a suitable explanation, I will be permanently canceling my Amazon account, as well as warning all those I know about it. Thats how you take care of problems like that.

That's rather unsettling. Especially Amazon's total lack of explanation for why they nuked her account (and then, later, why they restored it). I love Amazon for their pricing and delivery of physical products, but this is just another reason why I consider DRMed products to be inherently zero-value, worth paying for only for whatever convenience they represent.

What you preferred was not the issue; it was your claim that there was something inherently DRMed in the use of an iPod or in purchasing music digitally when neither of these claims was true. Are you going to retract them, or carry on pretending you said something different when your own post on the same page proves otherwise?

Why didn't you buy an iPod? It's never been DRMed. It has no kill switch. It's not a walled garden.

And it doesn't work with Linux. You also have to USE Apple's software to download music to to it. I do however have a Archos Gmini, where I can drag and drop.

Ok, so now we have it. It's all about it not being Linux.

...As far as Amazon removing content .. my understanding is that it had something to do with publishing rights that weren't completely ironed out prior to them distributing the content. It is quite unfortunate that it turned out to be those specific books in that particular situation, cause that's just fuel for the fire.

As far as Amazon removing content .. my understanding is that it had something to do with publishing rights that weren't completely ironed out prior to them distributing the content. It is quite unfortunate that it turned out to be those specific books in that particular situation, cause that's just fuel for the fire.