Thursday, May 20, 2010

If you're offended by the Prophet cartoon thing, here's an easy solution for you: don't search "Muhammad + cartoons." You'll be just fine.

The groundwork for this entire sh'bang was laid down by the Jamaat-e-Islami. Having spent the last three weeks with an insufferable Jamaatia, I've seriously had it with these opportunistic hypocrites. Interestingly enough the Jamaatia didn't come with us from Pakistan, he moved to the U.S. in the 90s after graduating from IBA, went to Columbia and Harvard, works for Rand Corporation and was hired by the State Department to be our cultural guide. And what a cultural guide he was. This is what I learned from Mr. KH:

1) Nobody gets married in the U.S., "they all have boyfriends and girlfriends" (said in a most judging tone).

2) Americans don't have a moral code.

3) Pakistanis are useless / insincere. There's no point in bringing in lawyers and judges from Pakistan and teaching them about the American system because there's no hope and you guys won't make a difference because Pakistani's have no commitment. (This, by a guy who left the country for greener pastures and is clearly staying in the U.S. until he can get his hands on an American passport, I imagine once he does get the passport we'll see him hosting a fiery talk show in Pakistan.)

4) Pervez Hoodbhoy is an American agent. (Again, this guy works for Rand and was hired by the State Department, apparently they don't teach irony at Columbia or Harvard.)

5) Karachi, especially Defence has gotten really, really 'bad' - morally and socially that is. (What can I say,women do roam around the streets in their thongs propositioning every truck driver that passes by.)

6) Young Pakistanis are totally out and have no moral code because they drink alcohol. (Yes, all I do while having a drink is figure out which brothel would give me the best price for my mother and sister.)

7) Sufism is a new concept.

There was much more vitriolic shit coming from his mouth but at some point I stopped listening, but I'm sure you get exactly what type of person we're dealing with.

Sadly, this deluded, moralizing, self-righteous twit isn't alone, there are many more out there and they're getting more and more vocal. They are the product of Pakistani universities from the late 70s through to early 90'd (the Zia years), especially universities where IJI was prominent. They seem to have forgotten how IJI became prominent, with American money and American guns, and now spend their free time denouncing the U.S. The rest of the day, when they're actually working, you'll find them at MNCs, Banks, etc., or like Mr. KH, working with the U.S. government. They may hate America but not American dollars.

Well, they can go fuck themselves. The Pakistani people did not vote them into power, they have no mandate to govern or legislate, all they do is intimidate.

36 comments:

Shahab Riazi
said...

AKS,Looks like you have hit the jackpot with this guy. I am sorry that you have to put up with this at all. The positive here is that you have signed off on hope for Jamatias which I did a long time ago.

what tolerance is this....you're judging an entire bunch of people on the basis of one moron's biases..you may disagree with a particular political ideology but calling all of them opportunistic hypocrites...what self-righteous and uncritical hypocrisy.

and can we please move on from zia now. sure his regime left an indelible mark on pakistan but history is a continuum and things have CHANGED since then. other variables affect what i sthe akeup of the current young pakistani jamati. people who grew up in the zia era are now cranky middle-aged men who worry more about their impending rheumatism.....

i guess i know this is satire but is a semblance of tolernace too much to ask. the ban on facebook (a terrible idea by all means) and this post about jamati has no link. but i guess like the religous people all paint the liberals with one brush, the liberals are no different. nuance is lost on both sides of the extreme.

agreed. It's just a cheap anti western trick to appease the dumb and just highlights the total lack of freedom in this country. I'll tell you what the real cartoon is. An islamic republic like pakistan who claims to follow the teachings of god and claim to be on the right path. Ha. Quite right pakistan. This is where our efforts should be focused. Nothing else of note the country should take care of.

AKS, being a lawyer, can you speak to the "Rule of Law prevailing" vs. "Who cares? The Law itself is stupid" debate?

Also, where should Pakistanis constitutionally draw the line (if anywhere) on the freedom of speech?

Considering that the "if you don't like it, change the channel" - line of thinking is hotly debated the World over, including here in the US, is it unfair to criticize Pakistanis for being on the conservative side of this issue?

---

As for your "cultural guide," I don't know what to be more sorry for. The fact that Salafism encompasses all strata of American Muslim society, or that the State Department is so charriya that it doesn't know how to vett people properly (9 years after 9/11).

There was much more vitriolic shit coming from his mouth but at some point I stopped listening, but I'm sure you get exactly what type of person we're dealing with.

The US State Department hired this lunatic? He must really, really suck up to them when you're not around.

I suppose he's at least a non-nationalist hater - he hates everything but Islam, and probably himself.

Sadly, this deluded, moralizing, self-righteous twit isn't alone, there are many more out there and they're getting more and more vocal. They are the product of Pakistani universities from the late 70s through to early 90'd (the Zia years), especially universities where IJI was prominent. They seem to have forgotten how IJI became prominent, with American money and American guns, and now spend their free time denouncing the U.S. The rest of the day, when they're actually working, you'll find them at MNCs, Banks, etc., or like Mr. KH, working with the U.S. government. They may hate America but not American dollars.

That's what I figured. Man, was sponsoring Zia Al-Huq a bad decision for the US or what? Both Pakistan and the US are still reaping shit from that era.

Convenient five point agenda given to us by Anon650. I wonder if the preface to this agenda involves a mass-genocide of the existing population of Pakistan.

Religion is built into this country and as much as we would like to think it's top down, its not. It's as much bottoms up as it is enforced from the top. India has had a secular constitution for 63 years. Clearly, that hasn't changed the logic of local politics in that country and neither has it curbed communalism. Religion in post-colonial politics is far too complicated a subject to be debated in such simplistic terms.

Appropriation of religion is a fundamental requirement of any program that aims to reform society. We have to come to terms with the fact that secularism (at least the Westphalian version) is a thoroughly inapplicable concept in Pakistan.

In other news, screw the Chief Justice, the Punjabi middle class and the IJT. (not in that order).

I did say that it is a radical solution, didn't I?! No, I don't agree it requires a genocide. Reforms in education is the most important step. You know you require reforms in education when you find verses from Koran in a 10th grade Biology text book.

I agree that these representatives of religious parties are the biggest hypocrites ever born. They preach to others to send their children to go on ‘Jihad’ while their own sons study at Oxford and Harvard. Double standards!

And another question: Since I can't find the text of the ruling, or Judge's opinion given in the High Court, I'm assuming they used their authority under section 295 C of the penal code.

If that's the case, didn't the court overstep its mandate?

Section 295 says:

"Use of derogatory remarks, etc., in respect of the Holy Prophet:Whoever by words, either spoken or written, or by visible representation or by any imputation, innuendo, or insinuation, directly or indirectly, defiles the sacred name of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) shall be punished with death, or imprisonment for life, and shall also be liable to fine."

In other words, the text spells out what constitutes the infraction, and it also specifies the sentence(s).

But in doing so, it only addresses the issue as if it was an infraction committed by a person, not a foreign based corporation.

So by what Judicial logic can the court undisputedly order the blockage of a social networking website?

It is not the duty of the government to ban this kind of websites; perhaps those who are hurt by this incident must delete their accounts from this website in order to show their allegiance with their religion.

I'm sick and tired of it all - all of it I tell you! I love this country and I want it to be better and I'm all for education and tolerance. But religion is personal and shouldn't interfere with laws. And isn't blocking information or forums of any kind some sort of fascism? (This is in reference to wikipedia being blocked for a couple of days - now that was insane).

this is mr laxman tiwari from waraseoni, dist. balaghat ( madhya pradesh ) india.i have taken connection of indane gas last year or more than last year. i got the connection but the dealer did’t give me the card of entry and he is not much bother about that please help me.and the quantity of the gas is also seems too low, instead of the get the people who r having card. Its really sad that one of the local shop (Shree Gopal Corner Store) located at Thane (w) near Cidco Bus stop near station took extra Rs.2 on Minute Maid (Pulpy Orange). When i enquired the shopkeeper prodly said that it was cooling charges for the bottle. When I argued he said that their is no such LAW that cold drink bootles should not be charged more than MRP. Please take some action so that he doesnt continue this missdeed in future. Hoping for your prompt action. Thank you in advance. I am sure I will get the justice.

This is to inform you that we have gone through your records and your performance via the online interview schedule and found you qualified for the job stated on the appointment letter which is attached in this email.

Choosing to "change the channel" or disregard the insinuations of ignorant people is a most Islamic way of thinking. "wala yakhafoona lawmata la-im" [Ma'ida:54]

And that is all that AKS is essentially saying.

"... And you will surely hear from those who were given the Scripture before you and from those who associate others with Allah much abuse. But if you are patient and conscious of Allah – indeed, that is of the matters [worthy] of determination.” [Aal-i Imran: 186]

Nowhere does it say that the definitively prescribed ruling in dealing with these idiots is to tape shut the eyes of all Muslims and plug their ears, so they don't "have access" to such vile things. I'd like to believe that Islam calls its adherents to be mature grown ups with a deep sense of the value of life and the gift of intellect. Not some childish simpletons that need to be protected from seeing or hearing bad things their entire lives by some paternalistic government, especially one whose lack of competence makes it the laughing stock of the world.

I think Surkha put it quite succinctly. That does seem to be the underlying message of the post unfortunately. I was really hoping for a more neutral, both sides of the issue in mind, type of view but i guess thats hardly the sort of thing you'd expect from this blog. Fyi, i think we deserve some credit for simply banning the offending sites rather than bombing them.Its progress no?

I think its a seriously bad idea to resort to the "lets compare our folly with their follies" line of argument but...im going to do it any way. Every country at some point in history has disputed a minority's right to practice freedom of speech by banning something they thought went against their ideology as a nation (banned burqas in France, banned kissing/fondling in Doha/Dubai/Tehran etc., gay marriage being banned in several U.S. states)and while people criticize this kind of small mindedness heavily, no one projects their views of the nation's in question entire society/religion onto the debate.So we took a dire measure to counter-act what we thought was a gross misuse of a freedom the west prides itself on...but surely, even being as far removed from a religious mindset as u could possibly get, you could still "maybe" see what prompted it?Or not at all?

im just going to say...for the most part this isnt a very neutral forum (am expecting to hear resounding cries of "so dont click on it dude" much similar to the "change the damn channel" argument), something i had not been expecting.

An ignorant person with a bad character is like an unarmed robber, but a learned person with a blog is a robber fully armed. I'm not as sure about that, as is Micky Kaus.Personally I think an ignorant fool with a suicide jacket shouldn't be considered unarmed!

Ignorance is defined by the lack of knowledge (not education).Who is ignorant?

My question is not to evoke a debate on epistemology, rather to explain to me this.. is the man who is 'brainwashed' in terrorist camps in wana and other spooky corners of the tribal areas (which NONE of us have ever been to) ignorant?Or is the one who is 'enlightened' by nightly news on geo (and other more credible sources like BCC or the Times) just as ignorant?

- The majority of terrorist training camps are found in southern punjabCenter for international & strategic studies- theres a bunch of strategic reports

- Any news source you've ever paid any attention to is owned by Viacom, TimeWarner, CBS or (our fav) NewsCorp.

So:enlightenment is freedom from ignorance, and knowledge is the key to enlightenmentand in todays global village, knowledge is spread through newsand apparently EVERY different news medium falls under the umbrella of these companies

is it safe to assume our knowledge is coming from a very limited group of people? (rhetorical, don’t answer that.. ull just look like a dumbass with something to prove)and yes, I know the internet has revolutionized freedom of blah blah blah.. but get real, most ppol don't get home from work and switch on their favorite blog

lets not be so quick to call others deluded and self-righteous, and hypocrites and what have you. sometimes I wonder if ppol who claim these things know the meaning of the words..because my dearest AKS, you can't make a statement someone is self-righteous and hypocritical, with the connotation that your statement differentiates you from them in that YOU ARE NOT self-righteous and hypocritical. Go ahead son, look up the words.So either you're being self-righteous and hypocritical (just like the guy you're bashing.. in case, why waste so much time?), or you're just expressing a sentiment (just like the guy you're bashing.. in case, why waste so much time?). I love this freedom of expression bs.. freakin hippies got something right :)

oh and when you do the "they, them" and "we, us" next time-- just keep in mind that freedoms of speech (and such) are a facet of democracies.. kinda like the one youre in (don't even try and pretend ur not)and the "we and us" you're talking about.. yea, no!

as for your

1) Nobody gets married in the U.S., "they all have boyfriends and girlfriends" (said in a most judging tone).- ill pretend like you don't judge.. u know, cuz ur righteous.. and also ignore the FACT that majority (majority means more often than not) of marriages end in divorce

2) Americans don't have a moral code.- umm.. Im a bit confused..im guessing you put this statement down to mock his ignorance of the fact that obviously americans have a moral codewhen u get some time could you please forward me 'The American Moral Code'… I've obviously not gotten a copy

3) Pakistanis are useless / insincere. There's no point in bringing in lawyers and judges from Pakistan and teaching them about the American system because there's no hope and you guys won't make a difference because Pakistani's have no commitment. (This, by a guy who left the country for greener pastures and is clearly staying in the U.S. until he can get his hands on an American passport, I imagine once he does get the passport we'll see him hosting a fiery talk show in Pakistan.)- isn't ur first point, "said in a most judging tone"?? seriously?- not sure if you went to college, but ill extrapolate from your tone that it was local??..PLEASE prove me wrong

anyhow.. on a serious note, stop judging so blatantly. Or at the least, stop judging about other ppl judging.I have a feeling ur smarter than u let on.. let it shine man!

The jamitis have a screwed up stand on a lot of things. They make islam look so strict. Islam does not teach all this leading to terrorism and violence. It is a need of the time that we re think where do we want to take Pakistan? A secular state must prevail with defeating these jamatis who only preach hate.