Welcome to Peceptions, a place where I attempt to look at things from G-d's perspective. No...I'm not under the illusion that I know the thoughts of G-d. However, we can get a good idea from both the Word of G-d and by living a close relationship with him. It is an open forum and no moderation. Only rule: No Foul Language. Thanks again and feel free to comment.

Friday, April 28, 2017

A Jewish Ceremony With Christian Messianic Undertones? Could It Only Be A Coincidence?

Did you know that during the Passover Seder, there are three
pieces of Matzah, presented to those who are present? According to the Jewish Haggadah,
these three pieces of Matzah are to be pierced and stripped, before they are
presented. The center piece is then broken in two, and the larger, which is
called Afikomen, which means, “He who has come, will come.”, is wrapped in a
cloth and “buried” away. After Passover, the center piece is “redeemed” from it’s
hiding place.

Could the three Matzah represent the three criminals of
Golgotha? Could the piercing and stripping be representative of the flogging
and piercing they endured? Could the center piece represent the duality of Y’shua/Jesus
being the require man sacrifice, having the Spirit of God dwelling within him?
Could the broken center piece represent the Messiah, when the Father drew away
from him, and left the man Y’shua/Jesus to become sin and be sacrificed for the
redemption of mankind? Could the broken piece represent the dead Y’shua/Jesus,
that was wrapped in his burial cloth and put into the grave? Could the redeemed
piece represent the redeeming Messiah rising from the grave? Could Afikomen
represent his first and second future coming?Or Could it be a Coincidence?As for me, there is no way, that you can convince me that
the Jews would have knowingly put together a ceremony that has Christian
Messianic Overtones and point to our Meshiach, Y’shua, Jesus, The Christ.

42 comments:

Hi Keith, I don't know how to tell you, but that Jewish stuff is just NOT true.

And on Golgotha were not three criminals. Jesus Christ is certainly NOT a criminal. And neither was their a Father to drew away from the Lord Jesus. Jesus Christ does NOT have a Father (Hebrew 7:3), that is because He IS the Father (John 10:30).

Keith,I read this twice and I believe absolutely in what you believe here regarding the Passover Seder.I just looked up the word 'Seder' and it says it means 'order'. It says it is done in a certain order which takes us from slavery to freedom, and doesn't that fit perfectly.

By the way, where you say:- 'when the Father drew away from him, and left the man Y’shua/Jesus to become sin and be sacrificed for the redemption of mankind'This is confirmed when Y'shua/Jesus cried out at three in the afternoon in a loud voice:- "Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?"which means, 'My God, my God, why have you forsaken me.'

By the way, Brenda, when Y'shua cried out, "My God, my God! Why have you abandoned me!", it shows that they were two separate entities. Another verse to show that the Father and Y'shua are different, but same in Spirit. Isn't it great how the Scriptures continually prove that you believe in the correct doctrine?

That's the reason why the Scriptures commands you to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Look Keith, this is what Jesus has said, 'I and the Father are ONE' (John 10:30).Who do you think is telling the truth ? You or the Lord Jesus ?No my friend, you can't have it both ways. If you do NOT believe, then you are transgressing the first and the second commandment of the LORD.

And, do you know what figurative (metaphoric) language is ?If the Lord Jesus IS the Father as He has said, then concerning the Father He is speaking Figuratively (John 16:25).

(Tit. 1:13 - 14) "For this reason reprove them severely so that they may be sound in faith, NOT paying attention to Jewish myths and commandments of men who turn away from the truth."Tell me, is Paul Antisemitism ?He tells you exactly the same thing as I tell you.

Paul, I've told you many times, I rely on the Sacrificial Blood, of our Lord, Y'shua. I also thank our Lord and God, Yah, for our salvation.

Y'shua is one with Yah, in the same way that we are one with Y'shua, in the Spirit. His name even means, Yah Saves or Yah is our Salvation. Your name, Paul, means Small or Little. My name, Keith, means Wood of the Battleground. Brenda means Torch or Sword, Tim means Value of Yah. I am not having it both ways, but the one way that God has revealed to us, through his Scriptures.

As for metaphoric or figurative language. It appears that you have forgot how God uses metaphoric language. First, there is the literal. From the literal, God uses metaphors to re-enhance the literal. He has done that so you and I can recognize the supernatural origin of the Bible, the True Bible. He has done so, precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little, there a little.

As for Titus 1, you are way off. You have taken that, WAY OUT OF CONTEXT. Jewish Myths are not the commandments of God, which includes the Feasts. Jewish myths are Jewish inventions or additions, concerning God's Word. This is the same thing Y'shua was talking about in Matthew 23. The Pharisees and Scribes added to the Law. The same way you are adding to God's Word. If you keep it up, the same woes will come upon you.

Also, let's not forget that Y'shua, his Talmudim and Paul celebrated the Feasts, even after the resurrection. Man, you are using the Word of God, to be anti-Semitic. Sad, very Sad. I guess the next thing you'll say is that the Church is the real Israel.

Thank you Keith for saying that again. Yes I know that you believe that, but you need to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and the Scriptures which is the Bible.

You are NOT supposed to believe or teach stuff which is NOT in the Bible. There is NOTHING written about a Lord Y'shua and a god called Yah, you are making that up. To say such things will lead people away from the true God Jesus Christ (1 John 5:20) to ANOTHER Jesus (1 Cor. 11:3-4) and to another Spirit and another gospel.Can you see, if you believe in a god who is NOT GOD, then everything you believe after is false and you are on the way to destruction. Therefore you need to make every effort to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ alone and in His Word the Bible alone.And don't worry about that Jewish stuff, the Jews need to be saved just the same as you. You see, he who is in Christ, that is in Jesus Christ is neither a Jew or a Greek or a Gentile, but a NEW creation belonging to the true God which is Jesus Christ the LORD.

The true Bible is the one in front of you, just read it and believe it.

The Lord Jesus did teach doctrine and knowledge so that they might be weaned from the milch of the Word, with 'precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they MIGHT go, and FALL backward and be BROKEN, and TAKEN.'Just read the Word of God before you assume (Isa. 28:9-14).

Matthew 26:18, Mark 14:14,Luke 2:41, Luke 22:15, 1 Cor 5:7, Luke 2:21, Luke 2:27 just to name a few from the surface. I will not answer anymore if you start the circular insanity. If you stay on topic great. By the way, on your last post on your blog shows the whole year how hypocritical you are. You won't answer my questions but you challenge others just because we refuse to participate in your nonsense. You are now starting to show your hated of Jewish people and it's starting to sicken me.

The Scriptures are quite clear that Y'shua, his disciples, Paul and the early church celebrated the feasts.

And yes, Paul, that those who call themselves Jews, but are not, are of the synagogue of Satan. Rev 2:9 & Rev 3:9 is Y'shua's repudiation of the replacement theology, you are espousing. Within the family of God, there are Jews and Gentiles, who have their specific roles to play, especially in the end times.

Paul, it's clearly a choice that you have made to deviate from the Scriptures. It is also your choice to free yourself from this man-made doctrine. I know you know this. Pleas make the choice to break free from this anti-scriptural belief. Make the choice to love God. Make the choice to follow Y'shua. Make the choice not to hate.

I agree Tim! I have never understood how someone could follow such anti-scriptural beliefs, if they actually read the Bible. It shows how off-kelter that someone could go, when they put more emphasis on metaphors than the actual scriptures.

To deny the importance of Israel is to deny the identity of Christ and to deny all the prophecies about Him made by the Jewish prophets. Satan has tried to stop the people of God through the ages yet God preserved and prospered them. Jesus came through the Jews and we have been grafted into the vine with them, not replaced them.

Wasn't Jesus a Jew? Didn't he say, I didn't come to do away with the Law or the Prophets? Did he ever say that he stopped being a Jew? Weren't the Feasts given first to the Jews, then to the church? Doesn't the church consist of both Jews and gentiles? The Feasts were given to us, to celebrate in memorandum.

Yes, you are correct, Hiker Boy. All the feasts are a foreshadow of things to come. For sure, four has been fulfilled and we celebrate them, Messianically. It is possible that The Feast of Tabernacles was fulfilled, at the Birth of the Messiah. However, it is not a widely held belief. Most likely, the last 2-3 Feasts will be fulfilled upon the second coming of the Messiah.

Tim, Matthew 26:18, Mark 14:4 and Luke 22:15 is all the same account and is NOT a MYTH ! It is Jesus fulfilling the Old Testament requirements according to the Law and establish a NEW COVENANT in HIS blood.

Luke 2:21 and Luke 2:27 is the parents, presenting Jesus at the temple under the Old Covenant.

I Corinthians 5:7 Is that Jesus practicing myth ? I don't think so !

Tim, I think you need to read the Bible first and think about it before you make a statement.Jesus and none of the New Testament saints practices Jewish traditions.

Well, I'm not born Jewish and neither do I practice Jewish traditions. You see, when you are in Christ, you are neither Jew or a Gentile, you have become a NEW creation, old things have passed away and behold ALL things are NEW.

And to make a statement that ALL Israel will be saved is NONSENSE. What do you mean, ALL Israel as a nation ?Everyone person in the whole nation of Israel?Well my friend, we both know to say that or even think that is nonsense.

Why are saying that I don't believe the Scriptures and yet all of my posts and comments are full of Scriptures and I have been challenge you of transgressing the Scriptures.

Not only do I believe the Scriptures, I also claim that I can do better than that, I personally know the author of the Scriptures.

The author of the Scriptures wrote with His finger in the sand and you do NOT know what He wrote, and yet you claim that you know and understand and believe His written Word.

Have you not read that the Lord Jesus Christ said that He hates your new moon festivals and your appointed feasts etc. (Isa. 1:14).Tell me, does the Lord Jesus Christ hate YOUR festivals and celebrations, or does He hate the Jews' festivals or both ?

Do you really believe that He loves you sitting next to a Christmas tree and singing some praises to a god called Jehovah or Yahweh or Ehye Asher Ehyeh or whatever ?

Hiker Boy, Jesus did NOT nullify the Law but fulfilled the Law.It means that, if you don't believe in Jesus then the Law will condemn you because you would NOT believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

And Jesus NEVER claimed to be a Jew. Although His mother and His Father were Jews, but Jesus never claimed that Joseph and Mary were His father and mother.Actually to the contrary, He made it very clear who were His mother father and His brothers etc.

Paul G, I didn't say Jesus nullified the Law. Anyone that knows the verse, knows that Jesus said, ""Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." You can argue that Jesus fulfilled the law, but definitely not the prophets. There is a lot more prophesy left to be fulfilled.

For you to say that Jesus never claimed to be a Jew or Mary wasn't his mother is ludicrous.

I didn't say that you don't read the scriptures. I said that I have never understood how someone could follow such anti-scriptural beliefs, if they actually read the Bible. You obviously read your bible and can recite the passages. However, you have a problem understanding what they are saying.

I must admit that your anti-Semitism bothered me, at first. However, it explains a lot. First of all, your misunderstanding of what love and hate means. If you are able to blur the lines between God's love and hate, then it would make you feel good about your hatred towards the Jews.

Your hatred of the Jews causes you to disassociate the God of the Old Testament from his son, Y'shua. Since the God of the Jews is Yah, then there's no way that he be over the son. Therefore, you must eliminate Yahweh and insert Jesus, as God, in order to support your anti-scriptural beliefs.

If the literal scriptures says that Yahweh is God and Y'shua is his son, then must use metaphors to support your man-made doctrines.

All this to support your hatred of the Jews. It's very clear and I feel extremely sad for you to allow your hatred of the Jews to cloud your judgement.

We are not the new Israel. If that was so, then why did Paul say, "For I am not ashamed of the good news of the Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation to every one who is believing, both to Jew first, and to Greek."

Keith, for all the assumptions you have about me I do not have a defense, but concerning the Lord God the creator of heaven and earth and the Scriptures I have much to say.

You may not agree with the Bible (the Scriptures) and with sound reasoning of which I am more than capable to do so.

I think it to be of great importance for every man of God and for everyone who wants to believe in God to know the difference between the true God and the false god. To believe in the true God results in salvation and to believe in the false god results in destruction, and every man or woman must make sure that they believe in the true God which is the Lord Jesus Christ (1 John 5:20 and Titus 2:10 etc.).

Well my friend, I did NOT make the way that narrow. It was Jesus my Lord who said that the way is narrow and only few are those who find it (Mat. 7:13-20), and He Himself claims to be the Way (John 14:6). Therefore it is required from every man or woman who does not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth to repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and then they shall be saved, believe NOT and they will be damned.

Well, it's not Einstein's theory ! It's a simple believe in Jesus. And NO there is NO other way or a middle ground, Jesus or the devil.

Paul, I hope that one day you'll recognize that your arrogance and hatred have but one source and that is Satan. God is not the author of such behavior. I will continue to pray for you. I hope to one day see your repentance and submission untol the one and only God through the blood of Y'shua, who died for you. Again, I hope and continue to pray for the salvation of your soul.

Hi,just to say - it is not about who Paul loves, that is Paul's problem, it is about who God loves. Doesn't it say that God so loved the world and that is the reason He sent His Son, Who was born of God's Spirit, in order to reconcile us back to God.Jesus had to first learn obedience and be made perfect before He was designated as a high priest by God.

'In the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety. Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered. And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation, being designated by God as a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.' Hebrews ch. 5 vs. 7-10.

Jesus had to be made perfect by God before He could become the One mediator between man and God.

Yes it is Hiker boy, but we can only be responsible for working out our own salvation, and can only save ourselves. Paul obviously hates the Jews and God does not. The problem is with Paul Himself. I was born a Jew through my mother's line, but I do not hate Paul because he hates Jews - I feel sorry for him. It does not matter how many scriptures we show Paul, he still believes God hates the Jews. We have been discussing scripture with him for a few years but he will not accept all that is written.

Tim, the answer is NO ! How can you ask such a question ?How can I say that I love God and hate my fellow brother ? May that never be !If I would hate my fellow brother, I would be equal to a murderer (1 John 3:15), and you know that NO murderer has eternal life.To love a brother is to tell him the truth.To hate a brother is to encourage him on the way to his destruction.Haven't you read that faithful are the wounds of a friend, but deceitful are the kisses of an enemy ?

Our debate is, whether the Lord Jesus Christ is the Lord God the Father of all creation, or, whether a god called Yahweh is LORD. And you know my answers to that.

I at least can appreciate you answering that. I ask the question because you are giving off that vibe to all of us. We all seem to think that is how you feel because of what you say.

So, you're saying the Jew is our brother. Then please answer the other question I had. What is the Jewish myth?

And this is not a debate. Debates mean you are trying to win. If you want discussion then great but I will refuse to go in that circular insanity that you want us to go through. Yes, we know your answer to that discussion. Do you have any other thoughts?