How Fast It Happens

This is a discussion on How Fast It Happens within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by RKM
Agreed. Realizing the threat far outweighs your quick draw capabilities. You make a mistake and draw to soon, that can't be ...

Agreed. Realizing the threat far outweighs your quick draw capabilities. You make a mistake and draw to soon, that can't be taken back. You make a mistake and draw to late, you're dead. Knowing when is the appropriate time is the most important factor. Now, how to practice this is NOT easy. Unless you're in life threatening scenario's daily, it's not something that's easy to practice.

This is how I practice. As I'm walking through public I look at each person and watch what they are doing. Sometimes I'll run scenarios through my head. like "what would I do if they did XYZ.."

Sadly

This is how I practice. As I'm walking through public I look at each person and watch what they are doing. Sometimes I'll run scenarios through my head. like "what would I do if they did XYZ.."

The peaceable days of Mayberry, RFD and the agitated antics of Barney Fife are long gone from even the minds of law enforcement. Sad state of world affairs when people carrying concealed weapons are eyeing every member of public in a perilously premeditated pro-active state poised to draw, but then again we are at war with the world, sadly.

So sorry to see LEO attacked and injured by assailant.
I wish him strong and speedy recovery.

Painful reminder of dangers LEOs face in performance of their duties.

I would likely NEVER be in that scenario_______I'm not going to be chasing down a 'bad guy'. ..... nor will I have to jump out of my locked, secure vehicle to apprehend him [the point when the officer became vulnerable]. I will have the opportunity to access my weapon if he approaches with that knife.
.....and I can drive away while the police cannot!

It is amazing to see how quickly an attacker can damage someone.
Shakes me to realize 7 hits aren't enough to stop a committed attacker.

I would likely NEVER be in that scenario_______I'm not going to be chasing down a 'bad guy'. ..... nor will I have to jump out of my locked, secure vehicle to apprehend him [the point when the officer became vulnerable]. I will have the opportunity to access my weapon if he approaches with that knife.
.....and I can drive away while the police cannot!

It is amazing to see how quickly an attacker can damage someone.
Shakes me to realize 7 hits aren't enough to stop a committed attacker.

EDIT: Welcome to DC Forum Anthropoid.

Let's change the scenario a bit... You park behind a car at your local store... Open your car door and get out... Then play the video from 2:40... Is 4 seconds enough time for you to react??

Let's change the scenario a bit... You park behind a car at your local store... Open your car door and get out... Then play the video from 2:40... Is 4 seconds enough time for you to react??

I think 4 seconds is technically 'enough time' _BUT_ he would probably have me!!

Although I usually sit in the vehicle for several moments after I park it and remove the key and scan the nearby, then the distant area for anything/anyone out of the ordinary, unless I saw him exit his vehicle wielding that BIG knife i wouldn't have accessed my sidearm (I don't ordinarily get out of the car with gun-in-hand).

If he jumps out of the car and rushes me it will take me a second or two to recognize his moves as a threat (remember I'm not in hot pursuit or even suspicious since you changed the scenario).

Although I am able to draw my gun and fire (and probably hit him) within the remaining 2 seconds, I'm pretty sure I going to run / or move away really fast to gain some distance from that knife if I can .. .... that's what i think i would really do ...... maybe get a vehicle between us.......

especially now that I know even if I drew and fired and hit him seven times within that 4 seconds I still wouldn't have STOPPED him!

While it's easy to second guess, the perp sat in his car for several seconds as the cops ordered him to get out. In that time their guns could have been drawn and trained on the car door. Nevertheless, the perp could have sustained several COM shots and kept on coming. Exploding off the line of force is still recommended. A civilian victim might have even less time to react to a sudden knife charge, move while drawing, and shoot to incapacitate.

Always remember that others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.
Richard M Nixon
Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”
Jeff Cooper

This video reminds me of one of our sayings on patrol. Bad s--- happens fast... I approach every traffic stop with my safariland holster discretely ready to "rock" (thumb break slides down and open). My weapon stays holstered but I strive to have that extra millisecond of "what if" ingrained in my situational awareness. I'm fortunate to work with partners who're tactically sound, and we watch each others back. P.S. We're very ccw friendly here in Oklahoma, the way I see it most decent citizens, that are lawfully licensed to carry concealed, are cop friendly (or at least tolerant). God bless, and Happy Thanksgiving...,

I appreciate replies by adric and RKN. Questions: Anyone know how the officer is doing? Anyone know how the dirtbag is doing? Anyone know what kind of peashooters the LEOs were using and exactly what did they hit? Somehow you get the impression in a car chase at something like 20 to 30 mph that something is very wrong in this picture and it sure turned out that way as this maniac does the incredible. I realize there were priorities in this situation with the way he came out of car, but it seemed to take awhile before anyone decided to look in the dirtbag's car. It would be interesting if thread writer returned with more infor as it is available.

I appreciate replies by adric and RKN. Questions: Anyone know how the officer is doing? Anyone know how the dirtbag is doing? Anyone know what kind of peashooters the LEOs were using and exactly what did they hit? Somehow you get the impression in a car chase at something like 20 to 30 mph that something is very wrong in this picture and it sure turned out that way as this maniac does the incredible. I realize there were priorities in this situation with the way he came out of car, but it seemed to take awhile before anyone decided to look in the dirtbag's car. It would be interesting if thread writer returned with more infor as it is available.

Always remember that others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.
Richard M Nixon
Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”
Jeff Cooper

I appreciate replies by adric and RKN. Questions: Anyone know how the officer is doing? Anyone know how the dirtbag is doing? Anyone know what kind of peashooters the LEOs were using and exactly what did they hit? Somehow you get the impression in a car chase at something like 20 to 30 mph that something is very wrong in this picture and it sure turned out that way as this maniac does the incredible. I realize there were priorities in this situation with the way he came out of car, but it seemed to take awhile before anyone decided to look in the dirtbag's car. It would be interesting if thread writer returned with more infor as it is available.

Huh? I wonder if we are watching the same film. The BG exited instantly and charged the officer while making stabbing motions with the knife. Start of the charge from the BGs car to the sound of gun fire looks like about 4 seconds. BG was in a low crouch as he ran; knife out front in a jabbing motion. There's almost no time to react to something like that. Hope the officer who got cut does well.

If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
Andrew Jackson

Always remember that others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.
Richard M Nixon
Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”
Jeff Cooper

I can summarize it by saying that the officer recovered and the suspect is dead (although perhaps not dead enough). What is absolutely amazing and impressive to me is the fact that the officers were able to hit the suspect SEVEN times without once striking the officer, and they were in a high adrenaline combat situation.

If this happened to a permit holder, I suggest ingraining the following actions:

1. Get off the X. Sidestep, possibly "helping" the perp along. You might get cut, but not as bad. The BG had lots of forward momentum working against him. This puts you in a much better position time wise to set up your defense in case he comes back.

2. If you can't move, use your off-hand to block the weapon as you draw and fire from retention, taking care to not shoot yourself. Any wounds you take to your arm should not be life threatening unless he gets your brachial artery or gets to your chest. These wounds are called defensive wounds and should prove to any LEOs, Prosecutor, Grand Jury or Judge that you were in fear of your life. Alternatively, fall onto your back and block with your feet as you shoot.