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This is so ridiculous that I can only laugh. Mokpo maritime police rescue unit 122 was called for dispatch at 9 am, but due to lack of transportation, they had to *take the goddamn bus* for 1.5 hours before transferring on to a fishing boat and arriving at the scene at the completely useless time of 11:20 am. And the only rescue unit who were dive-capable didn’t have a helicopter available so they had to *drive themselves in a car* before reaching Kimhae airport and finally reaching destination at 1:42 pm.

I really don’t give a crap about the politics of the situation if you’re wondering. At this point it wouldn’t be such a bad idea if Americans can temporarily take over control of the emergency/disaster preparedness infrastructure until competence improves significantly among the domestic folks.

Namely, the survey is carried out to see what negative stereotypes about Jews are affirmed in a country. Some of the statements with the highest affirmations in Korea were:

“Jews are more loyal to Israel than to [this country/the countries they live in]”

“Jews think they are better than other people”

“Jews have too much power in the business world.”

Personally, I think the first question is obvious. The question could apply to any country/race and it would apply as the foreigner experience in Korea has largely been one of transient populations. It’s not so much negative as it is a reflection of what Korean people have seen. Of course foreigners are more loyal to the country they’re from. That’s because most stay only temporarily.

The second and third ones are a bit more negative and don’t have as many clear cut explanations. But like the article says, it’s a possibility that the negative stereotypes carry more weight and cultural context in Europe and America than they do in other countries like Korea. Jews controlling business/media/politics/etc. is a very highly negative image with historical background — but not in Korea. Hence what is seen as “bad” or “negative” in the West is not necessarily so in the East.

For me, this survey seems to point to more an ignorance and lack of understanding of Jews rather than actual hatred or anti-semitism.

What the Israeli state is doing to the Palestinian people is disgusting.

dlbarch

Short answer: Not once with Koreans in California; saw it all too often in Seoul.

DLB

redwhitedude

I guess Jews don’t get much empathy from Koreans. I wonder if Koreans know much about the Holocaust? I bet Koreans don’t. It does come across that Koreans may be too self absorbed with their own historical issues with Japan.

redwhitedude

In what way?

GerryBevers

Up until sometime in the mid- to late ’80s, Koreans loved Israel and the Jewish culture. There used to be all kinds of media reports praising the Jewish education system and Israel’s military. Koreans back then felt like they had a lot in common with Israel, who was also surrounded by enemies. That all started to change when South Korea started selling more cars and products to Middle Eastern countries and developed friendier ties with China and Russia. Suddenly, South Korea saw it was more profitable to hate Israel than to love Israel. That was when the Korean government and the Korean media started it anti-Israel campaign, to make sure its customers in the Middle East knew South Korea was on their side, not Israel’s.

If it ever becomes more profitable to be pro-Chinese than pro-American, South Korea will drop the United States like a hot potato, just as it did Israel and Taiwan.

Cham

Actually, Korean frostiness with Israel began in the ’70s and persisted into the ’80s due to the OPEC crises. Then, just as now, Korea was heavily dependent on OPEC oil — hence the turn against Israel.

But as for dropping relationships for profit or strategic interest — that’s nothing new. Tell me a major country in the world that doesn’t or hasn’t done that.

Additionally, Korea really didn’t do so much more to “drop” Taiwan as any other country did. It’s really nothing special to talk about.

GerryBevers

Cham: “But as for dropping relationships for profit or strategic interest — that’s nothing new. Tell me a major country in the world that doesn’t or hasn’t done that.”

The United States. The US has supported Israel when the rest of the world was against her.

The difference is that Korean loyalties seem to turn on a dime. Look at what happened during the Roh Moo-hyun years, when Koreans felt there was hope for better ties and possible reunification with North Korea. Suddenly, Koreans became rabid anti-Americans, hoping that would impress North Korea and win its trust. When South Koreans finally realized that North Korea was not sincere, Koreans came crawling back to the United States, begging the American military to stay.

cckerberos

While in Japan, I heard a couple comments along the lines of “the Jews have a lot of power on Wall Street.” The people who made the comments were always quite old.

que337

When I read the questionnaire, I thought the same. The questions asked in the survey could mislead surveyees to answer “yes” if they think Jews are freaking “smart”, “influential” and distinguished” people, which is not necessarily a negative sterotype.

Here are the 10 questions used in the study:

ANTI-SEMITIC STEREOTYPES

1) Jews are more loyal to Israel than to [this country/the countries they live in].
2) Jews have too much power in the business world.
3) Jews have too much power in international
financial markets.
4) Jews don’t care about what happens to anyone but their own kind.
5) Jews have too much control over global affairs.
6) People hate Jews because of the way Jews behave.
7) Jews think they are better than other people.
8) Jews have too much control over the United States government.
9) Jews have too much control over the global media.
10) Jews still talk too much about what happened to them in the Holocaust.
11) Jews are responsible for most of the world’s wars.

While I don’t know this for a fact, I suspect Korean evangelicals would be supportive of Israel.

I also suspect that any Korean Antisemitism more likely stems from the Korean Left.

Jeffery Hodges

* * *

Sumo294

dlbarch let me assure you that most Koreans could not tell the difference between a Jewish person and an American and really could care less. Jewish ancestry in Korean is a non–issue unless you poll them and the thought vanishes as soon the questions end. Some Koreans have been to Israel and some Koreans have worked in the Middle East–the Koreans who have converted to Islam likely are anti-Semite. Jewish people themselves are confused to who is exactly is Jewish. One person told me that you have to have been born from a Jewish woman’s womb and another said the genealogy comes from the father’s side. Another said you must be descended only from the tribe of Judah or Benjamin and others say all the twelve sons are ok. The theology itself is confusing as every synagogue is law unto itself with supposed councils having supposed final say over a minor matter in the Talmud in modern application.

Aja Aja

I concur with this. There’s only two types of people in Korea. Korean, and the other is foreigner. Jews, Americans, Anglos, Chinese, French, etc all belong in the second group.

Aja Aja

That’s just one unit that were dispatched that arrived late. Over reaction much? Of course. How is that coast guard’s fault if all of them don’t have the proper funds? How is that incompetence if they didn’t have the transportation? The way the Korean coast guards are organized is similar way the Korean police with their small police boxes in every neighborhoods are organized. Considering that the coast guards have 10,000 islands to cover, this makes sense.

Here, you can read the transcripts of the coast guards who got there first, who did tried to enter the ship but found it impossible to do so, unlike the lies printed in the media that they didn’t even try. In the end, the coast guards were shocked that there were still hundreds of people inside the ship.

the holocaust isn’t relevant to most asians just like yasukuni isn’t relevant to most westerners.

Seoulgoodman

Woah, there. That’s a shitty analogy. Yasukuni is a fucking building. It’s merely offensive to some people. The holocaust, on the other hand, was genocide on a systematic level and scale like we had never seen before and have never seen since.

A Korean

Don’t go be arguing which was more evil. Not only stupid, but offensive to the victims.

Seoulgoodman

” Koreans felt there was hope for better ties and possible reunification with North Korea.”

You should know that there’s a disconnect between what people say in public and what they say in private. A lot of people didn’t want reunification back then because they knew that North Korea was a basket case. It was about buying time, hoping that the damned place didn’t collapse. Yeah, Roh probably had other ideas, but they stole the hard drives at the Blue House as he was leaving office, and now he’s dead. So,…

deanrd80

The survey doesn’t tell us much since it doesn’t control for political correctness and honesty.

Seoulgoodman

Yasukuni is a building, not an event. Also, I knew people who survived the Japanese POW camps, some of which had Koreans as guards.

“Some Jews were rescued/managed to escape the Nazi”? You’re as big a moron as pawi.

8675309

“The difference is that Korean loyalties seem to turn on a dime. Look at what happened during the Roh Moo-hyun years, when Koreans felt there was hope for better ties and possible reunification with North Korea. Suddenly, Koreans became rabid anti-Americans, hoping that would impress North Korea and win its trust.

Only someone who was completely ignorant of current events in Korea and oblivious to what actually caused that whole outburst would think like that.

Remember, Korea was on a total high in June of 2002 when Korea made it to the semi-finals during the FIFA World Cup. Then, on June 13, 2002 — in the middle of all the revelry — the “Yangju Highway Incident” or the Highway 56 training accident happened, when a 57 ton USFK M-60 tank (AVLB) ran over two Korean middle-school-aged girls on a public road in Uijeongbu.

As this event was overlooked by all the major media due to the World Cup coverage, it is disingenuous to say that Koreans “suddenly” become “rabid anti-Americans” overnight. It in fact took several days for the media to pick up the story behind the incident, and then it took a couple weeks before the public even noticed.

And by the time the dust from the World Cup settled, already a couple of weeks had passed, and that’s when people started paying attention to the story of how two little girls were crushed to death by a U.S. tank, and then they started paying attention like gangbusters.

Of course, this was the beginning of the end for take-it-for-granted relations with USFK, as everything from shredding a giant American flag at city hall seen by the entire world in December of 2002, to major protests that lasted for months on end in front of every USFK installation throughout the country came about directly as a result of this incident.

So, no, the paroxysm of anti-American hysteria that hit Korea in the latter part of 2002 and through 2003 was hardly an unwarranted or unprovoked display of fickleness. It was in fact a direct reaction to what many Koreans felt was the straw that broke the camels back as far as dealing with USFK went.

Seoulgoodman

You would have made a more compelling point if you had mentioned the Koreans who were recruited in the colonial police forces. It’s a trick that’s as old as colonialism. Get the biggest and dumbest guy you can find, preferably a criminal, and give him power.

Aja Aja

Except that you’re conveniently ignoring the little fact that the Korean leftists were massively taking an opportunity to whipping up the masses for their own anti American agenda.

8675309

Who cares? The fact is that the average run-of-the-mill Korean — regardless of political affiliation or ideological sway — was enraged by this incident. You cannot just wave it away and say it was all leftists. It was a legitimate outcry and protest of dissatisfaction with ROK-USFK relations.

deanrd80

It’s completely sensible that South Korea’s relations with Middle Eastern countries would be based on shared interests.

What do you think America’s relations with South Korea are based on? They’ve always simply been based on the presumed shared interest that they oppose the same countries. The difference is that South Korea is in a better position to define and shape what its shared interests with Middle Eastern countries are going to be. It’s in no position to influence whom the US opposes hence what its shared interest with the US is going to be.

A Korean

Anything else you would like add, Mr. Butthurt Einstein?

Anyway, I’m done with your idiotic and asinine debate on evil.

Koreandumbdumb

I am telling you that this is exactly what will happen if NK attacks. SK defense plans are all BS. They talk about some unit getting some place within certain hour. But just like in this case everything is unworkable fantasy. When the first shell falls, all highways will be jammed with cars. No military can move anywhere. NK will move quickly killing civilians and destroying government buildings. Seoul civilians will serve as human shield against SK attack. NK cannot lose. Lets pray the Wartime Command Transfer will be delayed. It is a life or death decision for Koreans.

Seoulgoodman

Is that a promise that you’ll keep your stupidity to yourself?

Aja Aja

Of course they were enraged because they were mislead through series of media and politicians whipping up a false storm of emotions and spewing up crap

Aja Aja

Just like US Mad Cow 2008, Chonan 2010, and Sewol 2014.

A Korean

Hey, are you a Jew?

8675309

Thank God you are the only one who can clearly see all the issues and remain completely unaffected by the image, let alone the idea, of two little girls being run over and turned into a mass of unrecognizable bloody pulp by a 57-ton Patton tank! We definitely need more people like you around!

Aja Aja

If he really was a Jew, he would empathize with the Comfort Women, and at the same time wouldn’t demand empathy from Koreans for the Jewish Holocaust.
I am certain he’s not Jewish, despite the name “Goodman”.

Koreandumbdumb

Oy vey! Aja Aja, you are f***ing idiot! No Jews were in bed with Nazis. They cannot sleep with a schmuck!

It was an accident. An unfortunate accident. Do you know what an accident is?

8675309

So what is your point? That the voice of the people doesn’t matter in Korea? IIRC, “Vox populi, Vox Dei” — at least that’s what they say in most democracies…

A Korean

I was gonna say, I’ve never come across a Jew as dim-witted as this one is in this thread, but there had to be some, I guess.

Ok, let stop this stereotype train.

Aja Aja

My point is the “voice of the people” are candle light zombies.

Koreandumbdumb

Oh, come on. You don’t believe that. The US dumped Taiwan overnight to sell Coke to the Chinese. Nixon recognized China, then out-right Commies, as the only legitimate government for the Chinese people. Taiwan become rogue government overnight. Talk about betrayal. Nixon obviously got paid by the Coke company. No government is immune from bribe and kickback. That is what politicians do.

8675309

Yes, I know what an accident is. I also was an 11B in the U.S. Army (infantryman), so I know very well that “Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.” You don’t get a second chance when you’re in uniform and when the stakes are that high — and I’m talking about in training. Especially when your OCONUS and on deployment — like these idiots were — excuses are like assholes, so no, they shouldn’t have gotten a free pass. I’ve seen guys Court Martialed for less…

I tried to think of a building where the Nazis are celebrated and eulogized, to counter the Yasukuni is just a building comment. But I couldn’t think of any.

Aja Aja

OK let’s amuse ourselves here. It was negligence let’s say for argument’s sake. Does that still justify the massive zombie reactions?

Aja Aja

The funny thing is the US dumped Taiwan in 1972, twenty years before South Korea did. Proves the US will abandon you at the drop of a hat, when you’re no longer useful. Just like South Vietnam 1975.

Koreandumbdumb

It’s because LMB was a super candidate. If Lee HoiChang ran as the candidate, the Right would have lost again. Koreans people are in the middle. They want a quality candidate and a good leader. PGH is not. She got to go. She is worse than HoiChang in handling the government affairs. If she continues, more and more Koreans will lean to the Left. She is a liability. Let a better man to step forward.

http://www.bcarr.com/ Brendon Carr

They were court martialed. That’s not a free pass.

Koreandumbdumb

LMB and Jung Mongjoon, both in the Right camp, do not like PGH. Why do you think is that? PGH is all by herself and as Sewol grows, she will be isolated. She becomes Pariah of the Right movement. The Left will grow because of HER!

pawikirogii

the holocaust isnt unique and im tired of hearing that it is. the holocaust isnt relevant to asians just as asian sufferingv isnt relevant to westerners. but good you dodged what i wrote.

A Korean

“(ir)relevant” is not the right word here. Lessons from both are relevant to all who care to learn them.

Seoulgoodman

Right, because when someone beats you to death, it’s less painful when he’s a conscript than a volunteer.

8675309

Yes, of course they were — and acquitted — as can be expected from any show trial. Anyway, after the trial, the culprits quickly PCS’d back to CONUS and were none the wiser…

Seoulgoodman

There, there. You’ve long established you’re a moron. No need to try to make it any more evident.

8675309

Before I answer that, answer this please: What reaction(s), under the circumstances, would you consider justifiable?

Aja Aja

Hypothetical question that is irrelevant now because it will never happen. What is your point?

http://www.bcarr.com/ Brendon Carr

Oh, it was a real trial, all right. Of course, the outcome was indeed a foregone conclusion, as you note, because there was never enough evidence of wrongdoing even to get out of an Art. 32 investigation. I’ve seen all the evidence in that trial, and that the accused were put on trial at all is where the real crime subsists. I think there may have been negligence on the part of the officer leading the movement, but that’s not who stood trial.

que337

I’d say it is akin to a situation that a slave owner forces a slave to whip another slave of a worse condition.

“The Nembutal injection wasn’t strong enough to calm her down for long ‘so the two LAPD Gangster Squad partners held her down, stripped her clothes off, and gave her an enema filled with broken-down pills containing anywhere from thirteen to nineteen Nembutals and seventeen chloral hydrates’.”

Not gonna argue the merits of the case, but a real show trial it was indeed in every sense of the word. Foregone conclusion? Yes, definitely. And the command made sure of that from the beginning. Btw, do you remember who the prosecuting attorney was? IIRC, she was a Korean American JAG corps 1LT. Yup! That’s how you stack the deck!

redwhitedude

The point that I was trying to make is that the people in the far east do not find the holocaust as being as relevant to them just like Europeans finding the comfort women issue being as relevant to them. Not who had it worse. Ignorance also could play a part in it.

http://www.bcarr.com/ Brendon Carr

Come on, man, if there’s not evidence of a crime, there cannot be a conviction for that crime.

Koreandumbdumb

Forced Enema? Ugleeee… Just like any country, there are some ugly people in America. Moi too? Non.. I am a gentleman. An innocent babe. Christian to boot.

Aja Aja

How is mine a strawman argument? I’m not the one asking hypothetical questions here, you are.

8675309

That’s nice, but ultimately, “the needs of the few should never outweigh the needs of the many.” Put another way, why does everyone else serving in uniform and abiding by the law have to suffer the fallout and pay the long-term price for the actions of a couple of dimwits? It would’ve been a lot tidier and better for EVERYONE if Sergeant So-and-so and Specialist Whatchmacalit had just been turned over to the KNP to let the Korean courts sort it out, instead of the USFK having to dirty itself over the whole affair. Done and over with! Just sayin’….

Aja Aja

That’s a violation of SOFA. But do you really think that would have quieted everything? You believe that, really?

8675309

Oh stop it! “SOFA” is as cushy, comfortable and conformable as my own ‘sofa’ — it becomes what you what you want it to be, whenever you want it to be, and will fit any size ass anytime, anywhere, any place, any time!

Koreandumbdumb

Look at the picture of the shrink. Would you trust him for anything? Monroe slept with him too? Oy vey! And, he injected the lethal solution? And, Dr.Noguchi. This guy is a crook too. He did autopsy on all major Hollywood cases. And, he always says “nothing unusual”. Even if cops did investigation, Dr. Nogood would have killed it. A Jap. A liar. A typical Japanese Yes-Man.

Aja Aja

North Korea reports a serious accident with a Pyongyang’s apartment building

The casualties could be horrendous due to the very high rise building.

A Korean

You’re an insane pussy. Gentleman my ass.

Seoulgoodman

Yes, but I was replying to pawi, who, in typical fashion, got it all wrong.

MikeinGyeonggi

I think what Pawi meant was that many Asians aren’t very familiar with European events during WWII, just as many Westerners aren’t very familiar with what was going on in East Asia during the war.

JW

“That’s just one unit that were dispatched that arrived late”

Unit 122 wasn’t “just one unit” that arrived late. According to below video report Unit 122 was the one unit that was trained to do the “real” work rescuing people in hazardous situations such as the Sewol scenario. One of the 123 coast guards says in the video: “We’re not really a rescue unit. More like a general patrol unit” And that’s why in the transcript that you posted (thank you for that link btw, I hadn’t come across it yet) you hear the 123 guys mentioning the necessity of the 122 unit coming as soon as possible.

Well, I’m learning all this stuff now, and it’s pretty clear to me now why the 123 unit was so feckless (seemed very strange to me at first why these guys were so slow and un-aggressive in the video — now I know). They simply were not the right people for the job. The right people for the job arrived way late at 11:24 am because they didn’t have proper transportation.

2) Do you really think that it mattered to the POWs if the guards were Korean conscripts, volunteers, or Japanese?

PS. I’m not American, so nice try.

Seoulgoodman

You’re giving him too much credit.

Seoulgoodman

Nixon recognized China after pretty much every Western nation, as the US was pretty much the last to begin doing business with Vietnam (which it only started doing in recent years) and the only one to claim (yes, claim) it’s not doing any business with Cuba.

Seoulgoodman

Wasn’t there something in the news recently about a sex film of Monroe and the two Kennedy brothers she’s rumoured to have slept with?

Seoulgoodman

The fact it’s being reported in the foreign press means that the construction company was insured by a foreign company. North Korea’s big on insurance fraud.

추적 60분 (Investigation 60 minutes) finally tells PGH was wrong. This is a riot because the news show was made by KBS, the public TV station. One of their big shot recently said PGH told his boss not to diss the Marine police. And, he got fired from the station.
The film shows clearly PGH was getting lied to by a marine police and she did not realize it. The liar said that 500 divers were working at the site. A person stood up and told the public that was a lie. Here, PGH was believing the liar while the victims’ families told her that they could not believe that there were so many divers. They were in the beach every day to realize that was not true. Yet, PGH belived the liar totally ignoring the families.
If LMB had been there, he would have asked “how many men are really diving today?”. He would have known 500 was overblown number. There may not be that many divers in entire SK. Yet PGH had no idea about anything.
This is why PGH got to go. She may know something about what to wear and what to put on dinner plate but she has no idea about military, police, national defense, or even economy. She knows nothing and her advisors are giving lies.
Just imagine what she would do if a war breaks out.

Whoa, you know what that means — KBS must be overflowing with 종북 commies!!

WMunny

The Korean news program is called 60 Minutes? Lol.

Seoulgoodman

What?!

What if I am?

Seoulgoodman

Woah, there, little buddy. Don’t misconstrue my criticism of Pawi for equating a visit to a controversial shrine to genocide as an indication of my feelings about the sexual exploitation of young girls.

Seoulgoodman

Again, you’re misconstruing my criticism of Pawi, which he well deserved.

Seoulgoodman

Sure, whatever you say. Need I remind you that when you can’t argue a point, you resort to ad hominem attacks? Yeah, clearly you’re of superior intellect.

Bob Bobbs

Being forced to heard your own people on pain of death is hardly being ‘in bed’ with your oppressor.

That’s a fair summation of events. Certain elements spun this accident and lied so as to lay false charges on the US Army. The Army learned that they needed far better PR in dealing with the South Korean public.

Bob Bobbs

In which other country were millions of people transported by train to purpose built factories of death which gassed and incinerated them round the clock? If the Japanese in Korea were as bad as the Germans in Poland, where are the ovens? Where?

Bob Bobbs

MIG is indeed giving him too much credit. His anti-semitic roots will show, just you wait.

RElgin

umm . . . that is better than *my* sofa.

I’m jealous.

Bob Bobbs

“Because of a lack of understanding of many cultures, America clashed with the Muslim world and had the effect of strengthening hostile powerswith their high-pressure diplomacy. In particular, America, feeling the effects of the financial world and the media in control of the Jews took sides with Israel and made the Arab powers into enemies.”

Or you could say that Koreans were so distracted by their favourite activity (being nationalistic) that they temporarily shelved their second favourite activity (hating foreigners) until they got eliminated by Germany in the semi-finals. It was hard to take them seriously when they freaked out later because when the accident actually happened in Yangju, nobody gave a flying fig.

Koreandumbdumb

Jolla Commies work for KJU. You cannot deny that. I wish all Jollas get rounded up and thrown to labor camps for supporting the enemy. And, PGH is such a dunce that she gives an excuse for these Commies to recruit young people. She should quit. Before 4.19-like event takes place. She is doing more harm to the Right movement than good. Death to Jollas!

Koreandumbdumb

Kim DaeJoong, the big A, sent billion dollars to Kim Jongil. And, to cover his a***, suggested his lieutenant to be the president. Lee HoiChoong, the parasite, lost to Rho. After becoming the president, Rho the A+ said “NK has right to have nuclear weapon”. F***ing loser! Which country is he the president of? The double-eyelid frog spoke with forked tongue. And, Jolla Commies love it. As I wrote before, when the first shell falls on SK, these Commies should rounded up and shot with machine gun. Rho’s family should be tracked down like war criminals and brought to justice. He did more harm to Korean defense than any other Korean ever born. The f***ing A+.

Rho had an audacity to say “NK will never use a nuke against SK”. Even an elementary school children would say “Rho is a mad man.” I hope NK shoot a nuke missile to Kwangju and Jollas will finally learn that help NK means death. Death to their family members. Then they will know how wrong they have been. They have been lied to by Kim Dddechoong and the double-eyelid just like the kids in Sewol. Just like kids in Sewol!

Sumo294

Koreans have always valued education–no way anytime soon will Koreans drop English for Chinese or accept Chinese culture over American culture. They will do business in China for money but they will send their sons and daughters to America for their education. Korea dropped Taiwan for the Mainlanders and that is the extent for now. All the educated Chinese speak English or will very soon its not necessary to learn Chinese.

Sumo294

PGH is doing a lot of stuff internationally behind the scenes and tho she muffed Sewol lets give her credit for the stuff that will come out in the future. She has strengthened all the FTA’s and she is laying the groundwork for efficiencies with China. The railway is going to happen over Nork objections–this is huge. She was going to touch education–but that’s over due to Sewol and she will streamline e-commerce where possible. Her real value is her grasp of international relations and her vision for bringing Korea into a more mature understanding that China is a power with the understanding that America although waning is the last great superpower.

babotaengi

Kids get run over in the streets here every day. It’s not even reported in the news til a Yank and a tank are involed. That’s one big fuckin molehill.

Neither parents nor schools teach the kids any road sense here. I’d tell em to look before they cross the street and to stop walking in the road, but as often as not their parents are holding their hands when they do it. Monkey see…

Only someone who was completely ignorant of current events in Korea and oblivious to what actually caused that whole outburst would think like that.

I was living in Korea at the time, so I am not ignorant of the facts. You, however, seem to have either forgotten or are trying to hide the facts.

After Kim Dae-jung had his summit with Kim Jong-il in 2000, South Koreans suddenly fell in love with North Korea. Do you remember the Unification Flag at the 2000 Olympics, when North and South Korea marched in together? It was after that that the South Korean media started painting the US as the enemy.

Do you not remember South Korean students trashing the American Chamber of Commerce to protest President Bush’s visit to South Korea? That was in February, before the highway accident. South Koreans did not like that President Bush had included North Korea as one of the Axis of Evil. There were all kinds of crazy articles and news reports about how the United States was trying to prevent North and South Korea from reuniting because the US feared a strong, united Korea.

And do you not remember the 2002 Winter Olympics, Apollo Ohno, and the death threats? That was also before the highway accident.

Also, two things happened in June 2002. As you mentioned the two middle school girls were killed in a traffic accident on June 13, but South Koreans were too busy cheering their team to notice or care, even though it had been reported. South Koreans just did’t seem to care until after the World Cup ended. Another thing that happened that June was a North Korean ship attacking and killing four South Korean sailors and injuring others. That was on June 29, the last day of the World Cup.

So what did South Koreans do? They essentially ignored North Korea’s intentional killing of four South Korean sailors, but protested for months the accidental killing of two school girls, while the Korean media told lie after lie to further stir up anti-Americanism.

Do you not remember the ex-South Korean army tank driver who appeared on TV and told South Koreans that the track marks on the ground proved that the American tank drivers rolled over the girls, backed up and rolled over them again and again to make sure they were dead?

The crazy, rabid anti-American started with the death of the two girls, but anti-Americanism had been building up in South Korea, at least, two years before that because South Koreans wanted to prove they were worthy of being comrades with North Koreans.

Wow. ‘Broke the camels back’ in dealing for delays of operational control in times of war? USFK always loses.

8675309

Welcome to Korea Gerry! Is this your first time? Just to let you know, EVERYTHING you mentioned — including trashing AMCHAM in Feb of ’02 — is par for the course in Korea. Yes, Apollo Ono certainly added fuel to the fire, and Koreans do have a selective sense of outrage, so ultimately the story of ROK sailors getting killed in action at the NLL in the end of June of ’02, was deemed less outrageous than the idea of two middle-school girls in the blossom of their youth being reduced to hamburger under the treads of ugly American tanks. Go figure.
And lest we forget, Korean students have been protesting this and that ever since the days of 류관순 and the Samil movement back in 1919. And even when they firebombed all the USIS buildings in Seoul, Daegu and Gwangju back in 1988, no one really thought anything of it — just kids letting off some steam. Anyhoo, any old Korea hand shouldn’t get their panties in bunch about such stuff as kids will be kids in any part of the world for that matter. The only difference here, is that the U.S. is the most popular scapegoat for everything that ills the peninsula.

8675309

Obviously, you weren’t here in the summer of 2002. It wasn’t that nobody cared, it was buried in the FIFA coverage. Every television set in every home, office, restaurant, pub and public space was tuned into the damn games — and the news, not to mention the entire country, was overloading on “Be the Reds” mania. Anything else outside of the World Cup matches and the Korean team didn’t exist in June of 2002, so the fact is, people didn’t find out about the incident until — like I said — the games were over and news coverage returned to normal and started playing catch-up to almost a month’s worth of neglected non-FIFA news.

8675309

“Kids get run over in the streets here every day. It’s not even reported in the news til a Yank and a tank are involed. That’s one big fuckin molehill.”

OK, that’s it. Mandatory military service for everybody — including ever fat f*cker in the United States of ‘Murica who can’t pass an Army physical. Why? Because obviously you don’t know the difference between a Matiz II and a 57-ton M-60A1 AVLB — the tracked vehicle that ran over these girls — or even its lighter Main Battle Tank variant, the 51-ton M-60A1 Patton, which I actually got over run over by — albeit in an improvised anti-tank ditch during our anti-tank weapons familiarization course at Ft. Benning during infantry school.

And believe you me, from personal experience, being run over by an M-60 tank — or any tank or tracked vehicle for that matter — even in a dug-out ditch like they had at Benning — will either make you cream your jeans or leave you in permanent state of vibrato for the rest of the afternoon, so don’t tell me about making mountains out of “molehills” when it comes to kids getting run over by tanks, i.e., unless you’ve actually been run over by a tank yourself.

To wit, it is not only the absolutely worst thing that could happen to anybody, but is also a horrific and an unimaginably painful and the most gruesome way to die.

Aja Aja

So you are still blaming these coast guards who are basically patrol units that arrived without any equipment to the scene who tried their best as they can, who had no ideal that the majority of the people inside didn’t evacuate to the decks which what normally happens with any sinking ship with a sane captain. And you want them in jail for this? Remember, the coast guards had roughly 30 minutes to rescue hundreds of passengers. If the unit 122 arrived late to the scene, that’s a systematic failure, not incompetence . Instead of examining how this could be improved so that it doesn’t happen again in the future, they want to put the entire coast guards on trial and put them in jail. What insanity.

Seoulgoodman

No, like the “IMF”. The Korean government refused the IMF’s very reasonable bailout package, sending the economy plummeting…and then the local media began the brainwashing. It wasn’t because of the chaebols lack of integrity and the government’s incompetence, it was because of the “IMF”.

Seoulgoodman

North Korea will never use a nuke against South Korea because it’s a pathetic third-world country that lacks the technology to do so…and it would be wiped off the map if it did.

Aja Aja

Whether run over by tanks or cars or trucks or buses, the results are all the same – gruesome. They all mean death and injuries. What is the difference?

Aja Aja

30,000 march in Seoul, and they decided to march towards the Blue House. The police blocked them, as they should. But I just love this headline that Hankook Ilbo printed on their online news portal:

So the zombies are pissed mad why some of them are getting arrested. It’s because some of them were getting out of line, not because of ‘there is no freedom of speech’. Yes, there are rules that you must follow when you’re protesting. As in the NYT ad, they also posted this absurdity on the Washington Post

The government has a constitutional duty to be appropriately prepared for situations like this, and it’s obvious to me and every other regular Joe in Korea that they failed both systematically and at the individual levels, so yes, I think most likely at least some people from the coast guard on up are criminally responsible. You apparently want to give *only* them a pass because of your politics. It’s absurd.

Aja Aja

About the number of divers. There were hundreds of divers in total, diving in shifts. It wasn’t exactly a lie.

8675309

What’s the difference? Well it’s the difference between being pulverized into mincemeat and simply being knocked down with great force. And no, the results are NOT “all the same.” In the latter, an open-casket wake is possible, in most cases, even if dismemberment took place, i.e., with a little creative help from a competent funeral director. In the former, we’ll not even go there.

8675309

Where do you hail from, btw?

Dokdoforever

Agreed. The survey measures stereotypes, but some of the listed characteristics are probably envied or even admired by Koreans, particularly the global economic, political and media power. What the survey captures best is the general propensity to stereotype others based on their race or nationality, and in my opinion Koreans do have a pretty strong tendency to generalize on the basis of appearance, and in particular race. (like whites can’t speak the language, for instance).

Aja Aja

They should have just asked a simple straight out question like: “Do you dislike Jews”, instead of going around circles and beating the bush.

Aja Aja

What kind of situation? Situation where the captains of sinking ships tell their passengers to stay indoors and lock their doors? Honestly, who were prepared for this, and how do you prepare for this? They would have all been saved, if the ship’s captain did his job and did the right thing, and we wouldn’t be here arguing over this. Instead, we would be praising those coast guards who got there so quickly and rescuing all the passengers.

GerryBevers

That’s exactly right. Instead of reporting it as the accident it was, the Korean media focused on all the gory details. The anti-US crowd displayed all the gory photos at almost every major subway station. Where did they get those photos? Why did the South Korean government allow such graphic photos to be displayed in public, where young children would almost certainly see them?

I don’t know what point you are trying to make, 8675309, since you keep making such silly comments as, “obviously you were not here at the time,” not only to me but also to others, and since your arguments seems to bouncing back and forth, but I have seen similar tactics before. And then there is your posting name.

There are many here on this blog who probably remember my name on posts here and on my own blog dating back to that time, but I doubt there are many here who remember “8675309.” At that time did you post under a different name or under multiple names?

North Korea has nukes and they sure as hell don’t have any protocols against its use–KJU presses the button and off it goes.

RolyPoly

The railway? Is it what the US wants? I don’t think the US like SK to be close to China and Russia. And, NK will never allow trains going through its land. It’s just a pipe dream.

SK is getting too close to China economically. Soon SK will be another 조선족 and be a part of China. I don;t think the US and Japan will like that. I don’t like it either.

Because China will use both Koreas as foot soldiers to fight Japan (and the US).

Sumo294

Where is Yuna? Yesterday she was selling lipstick on this site–I thought today she might be selling purses and high heel shoes.

JW

“What kind of situation?”

The kind of situation where they needed the real rescue unit to be available at the right moment, but, as attested by the transcript you posted, weren’t available. The kind of situation where the 123 patrol unit had to be better trained and better equipped, but, as attested by the transcript, were obviously not. I can go on and and on and on.

RolyPoly

I am KA living happily in Chino CA. I love to expose the hypocrisy on both the Right and the Left in Korea. I hope they align themselves with the US for common good. And, know that unless SK strengthen its defense (this includes maintaining good relationship with the US) all they have built for last fifty years can be wiped in one day. One single day! Do you want to see the property values declining to 1/10? The exchange going to 10000000 won for one dollar? SK has to know s*** from 된장. First, PGH got to go. It is going to happen anyway.

Why? Because she is the daughter of da-da Park, the first and possibly the worst DICTATOR in Korean history. By being the president, she can split the country into two waring factions, Jolla vs Kyengsang. Korea cannot afford this type of split.
LMB ruled while massaging both sides. Korea needs presidents who can cater to both sides. But PGH by being who she is can split the country and necessitates unnecessary fights that are deeply rooted in recent Korean history. Why go back and fight the war that ended two decades ago when Noh peacefully transferred the presidency to Kim YoungSam. Why raised the specter of dead people who fought between Communism and Capitalism? Why regress to 1960s?
PGH is a bad news. Sewol just brought that point to the front.

cactusmcharris

Do you really think that’s true? They weren’t workers so much as inmates who got privileges rounding up their own and then dealing with the bodies.

Aja Aja

Good lord. Why do people take sarcasms so seriously? You really think anyone believes what I wrote?

RolyPoly

You are sinking to the same level as Jolla Commies. It takes the two to tango! I knew PGH would re-flash this fight between Jolla and Kyengsang and split the country into two, literally. In the next election, a Jolla may win the presidency, thanks to PGH.

bigmamat

Defunding services and programs that aren’t in political favor is pretty standard practice in the U.S. Guess I’m just a cynic How does any of this make Korea any worse than anywhere else, it doesn’t.

I was in Korea for all of 2002. I watched all of the World Cup on TV, in bars in Itaewon and even watched Ahn Jeong Hwan eliminate Italy from a tiny portable TV on the back of an odaeng-truck at Yatap station in Bundang. My students did the same dance as he did after scoring to tie the US because they were still angry about Ohno and the speedskating from the February Salt Lake games. I saw the Spain match in a ‘western’ bar near Sungshin Yeodae, and sat on the street on Taehangro with a million people for the Portugal game. We then went and partied on the street in Myeong-dong. I even went to the Ireland vs Spain elimination game in Suwon. I bought a ticket for W50,000 from an Irish scalper outside. I saw Roy Keane, Mick McCarthy and G.Buffon in person. I watched the Koreans lose to Turkey at the 3 Alley Pub, and watched Ronaldo and Co. beat M. Ballack and Oliver Khan from a rooftop BBQ party in Haebangchon. Had enough?

I knew about the accident the day after it happened. I read about it in the Korea Herald and the Korea Times. I saw a girl handing out flyers inciting hatred on the subway at Bokjeong station about a week later. She thought I was American and tried not to give me one. The Koreans largely CHOSE to ignore it until their orgy of nationalism had died down. They even ignored the West Sea naval battle. If you are truly enraged about something, you address it immediately. You don’t CHOOSE to go to a soccer game first. Crocodile tears.

Bob Bobbs

I read that blog. Bevers was in Korea in 2002.

Bob Bobbs

Dead kids are dead kids. I’m not Catholic, so I don’t care about open casket funerals. Korea still lacks sidewalks, and Korean drivers (and ferryboat captains) still leave much to be desired. Do Korean kids still walk in traffic with headphones on? Probably, yeah.

A Korean

Another marvel of Korean construction technology. As soon as they prepare for demolition, the building crumbles on its own.

Bob Bobbs

Your sarcasm is not apparent. Work on it. Also: it’s not funny.

Bob Bobbs

the needs of the few should never outweigh the needs of the many

That’s not what rule of law means.

Aja Aja

It’s not the technology, don’t blame the technology. There was nothing wrong with the architecture. Blame the cost cutting skimping that went on, and the government safety inspectors that don’t do their jobs. This is a chronic illness in Korean society. It needs a permanent fix, open the construction industry to foreign competition, hire foreign inspection companies, and keep the government beauracrat’s out of controlling safety inspections. Also, government officials turning into lobbyists working for industry trade groups should be against the law.

Aja Aja

Yes sir!

Koreandumbdumb

What is to come…PGH will do a speech on Monday. Is it going to change anything? No. People will see PGH doing another finger-pointing while doing half-ass apology AGAIN. She will not entertain any questions from reporters because, if she does, the first question will be “did you press KBS not to diss Marine police?”. She wouldn’t dare. Street gathering will continue and gather more steam because it is summertime and people want to do something on the street. They can save on air-conditioning. Fortunately for PGH, the world cup is coming. The first game is so important. If SK beats Russia, the world cup feavor will overshadow Sewol. Otherwise, people will get angrry at losing the soccer game and they will blame Korean soccer association and ultimately PGH. Sewol thing will gather more steam.
So, the course of action is clear. PGH should bribe Putin to lose. But, Putin is in the same situation! He must win to show to the world that Russia is a strong manly country.
I think SK will lose. And, Sewol rally will continue till PGH steps down. KBS thing and other yet-to-be-known facts exaggerated by Jolla Commies (many work as newspapermen) will surface. PGH can attempt bribe umpires. But, that can backfire too. Like KBS thing.

Koreandumbdumb

Korea is like Mexico, Brazil or other SouthAmerican countries. A soccer game can change history. I know KJU will be watching too. I don’t know what that 도ㅐ지 will want..SK to win or lose against Russia? He can play with ㄱㅣ쁨조 after the game but most Korean men do not have that type of money. They will get angry at Korean government. Some men may fight police because they are angry… at PGH, at Korean government and at the world.

Aja Aja

It’s surprising that North Korea would allow that collapsed building story to go out to the world. But my suspicion is that since the collapsed building is in Pyongyang where only the power elite of North Korea can live in, they couldn’t hide it. If this was somewhere in outside of Pyongyang, I doubt we would hear about it.

The apartment building could look like this, as shown by a Korean American reporter from Ohmynews who visits North Korea often to show that South Korean news about living conditions in the north are lies.

The real problem is a lack of private remedies for official negligence.

cmxc

LOL – ‘Koreans have always valued education’

Koreans value the appearance of education. Actual education, or the ability to critically think for one’s self and not blindly follow what somebody older than you tells you to do is not something that Koreans will ever appreciate.

Koreans are not deep thinkers. The blog Gusts of Popular Feeling has perhaps the best title and bi-line I have ever seen when it comes to describing Koreans, and nothing has changed since 1898:

‘Gusts of popular feeling, which pass for public opinion in a land where no such thing exists can be found only in Seoul’ – Isabella Bird Bishop, 1898

redwhitedude

I make a comment. Next thing I know there is an avalanche of responses. :-/

redwhitedude

That’s going a bit too far pawi. Of course asian are aware of the holocaust but to asian’s it isn’t as high up in the worst atrocities as say comfort women because it didn’t really impact them directly as the comfort women issue.

redwhitedude

If that is the case Pawi was brash and his wording was poor.

redwhitedude

So I watched a mayoral debate between Park and Chung via JTBC on youtube. I’d say Chung is a douche and Park didn’t impress me.

deanrd80

“Critical thinking” derives from Critical Theory, which is a form of Cultural Marxism and has nothing to do with “actual education”. If the Koreans do value education, they certainly shouldn’t ever appreciate anything like “critical thinking”.

wangkon936

Koreans are not deep thinkers. Koreans don’t value education. Another one I’ve heard, not necessarily just about Koreans, but about other people not part of Western culture is that “they” don’t value live the same way “we” do. I believe all those thoughts are patently false and ultimately racist.

Interpreting a culture from only one point of view will only cause misunderstandings and unnecessary conflict.

Because of that we may never understand why 19 men slammed planes into three buildings on 9/11 or why young Iranians stormed the American embassy. This might be the reason why we will lose both Iraq and Afghanistan.

Such conflict and loss of life is the result of one side thinking their interpretation of the world is the right one all the time and every time and their insistence that everyone must think like them.

People from different parts of the world choose to demonstrate their values differently. Because you don’t understand how they choose to manifest their values doesn’t necessarily mean that they are wrong and you are right or that other people in the world don’t have values.

Seoulgoodman

Nope, they’ve got nuclear devices, not nuclear weapons. The only way that could be a threat to South Korea is if they find a way to smuggle one across the DMZ and go undetected for the weeks it takes their scientists to set it up. Their nuclear devices are crude by 1940’s standards. Think about that.

wangkon936

Strange displays of nationalism happen in every country, including the U.S. I’m sure the French must have been rather perplexed when the U.S. was renaming french fries “freedom” fries and dumped French wine into the Chattahoochee River back in 2003, when France criticized the U.S. invasion of Iraq.

You know, the French were right about Iraq in the end. We should have listened to them. Almost 4k lives lost and the real winner in Iraq will likely be…. Iran!

Same story with Pakistan wasn’t it? They only had crude weapons and not even missiles to launch them. People laughed and said the nukes need to be delivered by donkey and cart. Nobody in India is laughing at them today.

North Korea isn’t Pakistan. Pakistan’s GDP is twenty times that of North Korea.

bumfromkorea

But then again, my church’s annual bake sale revenue is twenty times that of North Korea’s GDP

Seoulgoodman

Question is, which is the most effective at brainwashing.

bigmamat

You’ve really oversimplified the problem in the middle east that’s for sure. To bad it isn’t just a difference in “values”.

wangkon936

sigh… Isabella Bird Bishop’s book about Korea is 117 years (over a century) old! Some observations will still be valid, I suppose, but many will be outdated.

Outdated. That’s become a recurring theme here.

wangkon936

To counterbalance their support of Israel, the U.S. has supported the Saudi government probably more than it should have also. No surprise that 15 out of the 19 men who were directly involved in 9/11 were Saudi.

The U.S. also heavily supported the Shah of Iran. That didn’t get them anywhere either.

wangkon936

Yeah. My casualty count was Americancentric. But, too many Iraqis died also. Probably more than Saddam Hussein could probably kill in the same time period.

Bob Bobbs

Without question, yes.

RolyPoly

Ah, but Kim DdaeJoong sent billions of dollars to Kim Jongil. This money was used to bring Pakistanis nuke experts to NK and develop nuclear weapon. And, Rho sent even more. These two “SK” presidents made NK nuke possible. F***ing A-hos.