However, I still hold my view that the 'old skool' scene is a bad move (for dance/electronic music in general). It's regressive, nostalgic and stands totally against the rule-breaking culture of acid house and techno. True, it's only about fun and re-livin' the day (i've even been to a few), but the reason that music sounded so good at the time was because it was new and completely fresh (remember the first time you heard Pacific or Joey Beltram's Energy Flash?). Altern8 are currently doing this circuit and it reminds me of a recent documentary ('Blood on the Carpet') where Bucks Fizz were shown doing Butlins PAs and cruises, still trying to make it big again! 808 should stay clear of this bollocks because it will fade very quickly as our generation enter their Thirties...

Well nostalgia is part of the fun (I think back to the bleep techno era) but like electro it's the way those drum machine/ synthesizers sound that makes it so refreshing to today's overproduced, repetitive, highly annoying prog house, trance, fill in the ____. I still get inspired by old Trax, Detroit techno, Kraftwerk, LFO, ect...

And no matter what you think of 808's music, NOBODY can deny that this vital ingredient is always present.

First off, Stephen, I didn't actually give my opinion on the Moors track - but you're right - it's cutting room floor material ...ie it didn't make it to commercial release. You're missing the point I was making about these demos - it gives an insight into what the band were 'thinking' at the time, and how this may lead onto other material worthy of release. I dont know if you are also a producer, but the case with most recording artists is that for every commercial track produced, there are tens of lesser demos/ideas etc that never see the light of day. Graham is simply allowing us to take a glimpse of 808's thinking-process in the studio, and this is a rare sign of humility in a music producer.

To your second point:

Don't remember stating that the old stuff doesn't inspire me; quite the opposite - I often find myself sifting through the older part of my record collection, even if only to get a 'vibe' before starting a new track. I'm also guilty of nostalgia, looking for old gems on Ebay and Netsounds, but if dance producers were still making LFO - style warehouse bleep, there would be no D 'n' B (for example). Music evolves...

"like electro it's the way those drum machine/
synthesizers sound that makes it so refreshing"

True, but dont forget that everyone's still using those same synths and drum machines! It's just that after nearly 20 years of use, the same kick drums and 303 squiggles are not so fresh! I still love them, and use a few (MC202/Pro One etc) but the difficult part is using them in a way that has not been done 1000 times over. You're right about the state of electronic music at the moment, and I wouldn't say anything I'm producing at the moment is particularly groundbreaking. Nor do I hear anything 'new' in the Techno scene. The key is to produce music that (as Graham says) is self indulgent, and then see if anyone else likes it! The reason that many artists don't/can't do this is that conformity/mainstream stuff sells...but that's another topic...

Last point:

Portamento? 808 State? Nah! You Serious?

What I meant was 'Passion' is the vital ingredient, as you probably guessed.

I like Moors, yeah it is cutting room stuff, and if it was released it would probably only sell as many copies as there are Globalstate members. But what Rich says is bang on, it doesn't matter about the quality of the stuff, it is the fact that Graham is prepared to dig out some old recordings and post them on here (through Markus) for the fans to listen to. Nobodys expecting belting stuff, but to listen to creativeness like Moors is great. I don't think you would find commercially successful bands such as Prodigy and the Chemicals doing this. The tracks are there for our enjoyment as fans and are an insight into the process of making albums.

You gotta respect 808 for keeping individual. Dance music has changed so much over the last 10 years. A lot of older stuff does sound dated, but you gotta know where you've been to know where you're going. You can't forget that without the early material, there probably would'nt even be a scene. 808 are individual, creative and diverse. I don't make music, I can't even play a note, but I listen to an awful lot. And nothing I hear nowadays really excites me. 808 have this ability. Listen to Moby's latest offering, I think its a very similar effort to the very successful Play. Selling out? I cannot ever see 808 doing this. They are not scared to do what they want. Its all about the music with the lads not the success. Humility is a rare commodity in music and from Grahams earlier response he has this in abundance.

Who gives a shit if it sells well? Put on your headphones and listen to an 808 CD, all you gotta do is simply close your eyes and enjoy the ride. That is what music is all about.

Need a rest now after ranting. Off to bed to listen to Pacific and drift away......

I like Moors, yeah it is cutting room stuff, and if it was released it would probably only sell as many copies as there are Globalstate members. But what Rich says is bang on, it doesn't matter about the quality of the stuff, it is the fact that Graham is prepared to dig out some old recordings and post them on here (through Markus) for the fans to listen to. Nobodys expecting belting stuff, but to listen to creativeness like Moors is great. I don't think you would find commercially successful bands such as Prodigy and the Chemicals doing this. The tracks are there for our enjoyment as fans and are an insight into the process of making albums.

You gotta respect 808 for keeping individual. Dance music has changed so much over the last 10 years. A lot of older stuff does sound dated, but you gotta know where you've been to know where you're going. You can't forget that without the early material, there probably would'nt even be a scene. 808 are individual, creative and diverse. I don't make music, I can't even play a note, but I listen to an awful lot. And nothing I hear nowadays really excites me. 808 have this ability. Listen to Moby's latest offering, I think its a very similar effort to the very successful Play. Selling out? I cannot ever see 808 doing this. They are not scared to do what they want. Its all about the music with the lads not the success. Humility is a rare commodity in music and from Grahams earlier response he has this in abundance.

Who gives a shit if it sells well? Put on your headphones and listen to an 808 CD, all you gotta do is simply close your eyes and enjoy the ride. That is what music is all about.

Need a rest now after ranting. Off to bed to listen to Pacific and drift away......

I now understand about the Moors track, lets hope their new album is better then Don Solaris

Don't remember stating that the old stuff doesn't inspire me; quite the opposite - I often find myself sifting through the older part of my record collection, even if only to get a 'vibe' before starting a new track. I'm also guilty of nostalgia, looking for old gems on Ebay and Netsounds, but if dance producers were still making LFO - style warehouse bleep, there would be no D 'n' B (for example). Music evolves...

"like electro it's the way those drum machine/ synthesizers sound that makes it so refreshing"

True, but dont forget that everyone's still using those same synths and drum machines! It's just that after nearly 20 years of use, the same kick drums and 303 squiggles are not so fresh! I still love them, and use a few (MC202/Pro One etc) but the difficult part is using them in a way that has not been done 1000 times over. You're right about the state of electronic music at the moment, and I wouldn't say anything I'm producing at the moment is particularly groundbreaking. Nor do I hear anything 'new' in the Techno scene. The key is to produce music that (as Graham says) is self indulgent, and then see if anyone else likes it! The reason that many artists don't/can't do this is that conformity/mainstream stuff sells...but that's another topic...

You make some good points although I guess I'm a bit of a purist when it comes to techno and electronic music .
I remember people making comparisons to Kraftwerk during the album 90 days but to me 808 State are more like the British
equivalent to YMO.

I suppose its all down to personal taste, its good that we don't all like the same things. There is no right or wrong, My wife thinks R'n'B is great, I hate it, but it doesn't mean to say that I think its a bag of shit. 90 is a superb album, the best of its generation and listening to it now it still dates really well.

But Don Solaris is my fave album, I think it is a beautiful piece of work from start to finish, with so many elements to it. I do love 'old school' stuff, especially when I am in a nostalgic mood, but I find more recent tracks more elaborate and involving. I remember hearing Cubik for the first time and being blown away because it sounded like nothing else in its time. The problem with 808, if indeed it is a problem, is that they are too far ahead of themselves. 90 is a classic, Don Solaris is musical brilliance. Let's hope Outpost Transmission lives up to the expectations.

On 2002-07-19 15:47, Mark wrote:808 are unique its very hard to compare them to anything.

I would say they are the 80's equivalent to the Art Of Noise and YMO.

But Don Solaris is my fave album, I think it is a beautiful piece of work from start to finish, with so many elements to it. I do love 'old school' stuff, especially when I am in a nostalgic mood, but I find more recent tracks more elaborate and involving.

No way, you guys must be a bunch of 808 homers to think Don Solaris is their best album.To be honest I don't like the saxophone doodling, also you can tell they were going for a darker, grunge edge.

I remember hearing Cubik for the first time and being blown away because it sounded like nothing else in its time.

That's not true, Frank De Wolf had Acid Rock.

The problem with 808, if indeed it is a problem, is that they are too far ahead of themselves. 90 is a classic, Don Solaris is musical brilliance. Let's hope Outpost Transmission lives up to the expectations.

Ok, so Frank De Wulf's earlier work could be compared to Cubik, although it is still not the same. I said that Cubik sounded lke nothing else in its time, meaning it was commercially successful and you heard nothing else like it on MTV or the radio.

He was a remixer more than an artist in his own right, and I do agree some of his mixes would border on the sounds of Cubik, although I reckon Cubik was a big breakthrough track for the dance scene.

Ok, so Frank De Wulf's earlier work could be compared to Cubik, although it is still not the same. I said that Cubik sounded lke nothing else in its time, meaning it was commercially successful and you heard nothing else like it on MTV or the radio.

He was a remixer more than an artist in his own right, and I do agree some of his mixes would border on the sounds of Cubik, although I reckon Cubik was a big breakthrough track for the dance scene.