A night of opportunities missed for the Wahoos.. Chief Wahoo is now getting to desperation time in need of a W tonight in Atlanta as:

-Indians lose game two in walk off fashion 3-2-Tampa won 4-1 with an outstanding effort by Chris Archer, former tribe farmhand -Baltimore lost 4-3 on a 130 foot chinker to centerfield by Mike Carp-The Jays crushed the Yankees 7-2-Oakland more than tripled up Detroit, 14-4

So, the updated wild card race appears like the Rays and A's are separating themselves as:

theshow wrote:isn't releasing Myers just when he gets healthy kind of a waste? I know he was awful this year, but the guy has a proven track record as a bullpen guy. When not just try him in the pen?

Would have needed to open a 40-man spot for him. Gave up 3 runs in 2.1 innings in his last rehab stint in Akron. Even if he is fully healthy he likely wasn't going to help at all. I'd rather give anyone at AAA a shot in the pen at this point than Myers...who really wasn't that good as a reliever last year.

Plus sounds like he was not a good fit in that clubhouse. Sounds like no one in there will miss him (at least according to reports coming out)...

theshow wrote:isn't releasing Myers just when he gets healthy kind of a waste? I know he was awful this year, but the guy has a proven track record as a bullpen guy. When not just try him in the pen?

Would have needed to open a 40-man spot for him. Gave up 3 runs in 2.1 innings in his last rehab stint in Akron. Even if he is fully healthy he likely wasn't going to help at all. I'd rather give anyone at AAA a shot in the pen at this point than Myers...who really wasn't that good as a reliever last year.

Plus sounds like he was not a good fit in that clubhouse. Sounds like no one in there will miss him (at least according to reports coming out)...

I can back up that he's a dick in the locker room. When he was rehabbing in MV, he bitched and moaned the whole time he was with the team. Caused a piss fit because a table he was sitting at was too low and didn't come up to his arms. A lot of the players had said he refused to talk to them. By comparison, CP who rehabbed in MV also signed every autograph request, took the team out for dinner after his game (and picked up the bill).

theshow wrote:isn't releasing Myers just when he gets healthy kind of a waste? I know he was awful this year, but the guy has a proven track record as a bullpen guy. When not just try him in the pen?

Would have needed to open a 40-man spot for him. Gave up 3 runs in 2.1 innings in his last rehab stint in Akron. Even if he is fully healthy he likely wasn't going to help at all. I'd rather give anyone at AAA a shot in the pen at this point than Myers...who really wasn't that good as a reliever last year.

Plus sounds like he was not a good fit in that clubhouse. Sounds like no one in there will miss him (at least according to reports coming out)...

I can back up that he's a dick in the locker room. When he was rehabbing in MV, he bitched and moaned the whole time he was with the team. Caused a piss fit because a table he was sitting at was too low and didn't come up to his arms. A lot of the players had said he refused to talk to them. By comparison, CP who rehabbed in MV also signed every autograph request, took the team out for dinner after his game (and picked up the bill).

Only 5 or 6 really good seasons in more than 50 years, and the Tribe front office & ownership and many in the media honestly wonder why attendance is what it is? Come on, guys. Really?

My TV went off at 7:59pm tonight...after the 3-run homer. I've seem that same Indians movie literally thousands of times over 5 decades. Pweh...wanna be hopeful and not negative...but, enough is enough.

theshow wrote:isn't releasing Myers just when he gets healthy kind of a waste? I know he was awful this year, but the guy has a proven track record as a bullpen guy. When not just try him in the pen?

Would have needed to open a 40-man spot for him. Gave up 3 runs in 2.1 innings in his last rehab stint in Akron. Even if he is fully healthy he likely wasn't going to help at all. I'd rather give anyone at AAA a shot in the pen at this point than Myers...who really wasn't that good as a reliever last year.

Plus sounds like he was not a good fit in that clubhouse. Sounds like no one in there will miss him (at least according to reports coming out)...

I can back up that he's a dick in the locker room. When he was rehabbing in MV, he bitched and moaned the whole time he was with the team. Caused a piss fit because a table he was sitting at was too low and didn't come up to his arms. A lot of the players had said he refused to talk to them. By comparison, CP who rehabbed in MV also signed every autograph request, took the team out for dinner after his game (and picked up the bill).

not buying it

A person (not going to reveal who) but a family member of mine is assistant GM for the Scrappers. Pretty sure I know what I'm talking about.

theshow wrote:isn't releasing Myers just when he gets healthy kind of a waste? I know he was awful this year, but the guy has a proven track record as a bullpen guy. When not just try him in the pen?

Would have needed to open a 40-man spot for him. Gave up 3 runs in 2.1 innings in his last rehab stint in Akron. Even if he is fully healthy he likely wasn't going to help at all. I'd rather give anyone at AAA a shot in the pen at this point than Myers...who really wasn't that good as a reliever last year.

Plus sounds like he was not a good fit in that clubhouse. Sounds like no one in there will miss him (at least according to reports coming out)...

I can back up that he's a dick in the locker room. When he was rehabbing in MV, he bitched and moaned the whole time he was with the team. Caused a piss fit because a table he was sitting at was too low and didn't come up to his arms. A lot of the players had said he refused to talk to them. By comparison, CP who rehabbed in MV also signed every autograph request, took the team out for dinner after his game (and picked up the bill).

not buying it

A person (not going to reveal who) but a family member of mine is assistant GM for the Scrappers. Pretty sure I know what I'm talking about.

theshow wrote:isn't releasing Myers just when he gets healthy kind of a waste? I know he was awful this year, but the guy has a proven track record as a bullpen guy. When not just try him in the pen?

Would have needed to open a 40-man spot for him. Gave up 3 runs in 2.1 innings in his last rehab stint in Akron. Even if he is fully healthy he likely wasn't going to help at all. I'd rather give anyone at AAA a shot in the pen at this point than Myers...who really wasn't that good as a reliever last year.

Plus sounds like he was not a good fit in that clubhouse. Sounds like no one in there will miss him (at least according to reports coming out)...

I can back up that he's a dick in the locker room. When he was rehabbing in MV, he bitched and moaned the whole time he was with the team. Caused a piss fit because a table he was sitting at was too low and didn't come up to his arms. A lot of the players had said he refused to talk to them. By comparison, CP who rehabbed in MV also signed every autograph request, took the team out for dinner after his game (and picked up the bill).

not buying it

A person (not going to reveal who) but a family member of mine is assistant GM for the Scrappers. Pretty sure I know what I'm talking about.

A.Zajac wrote:Reports swirling the Indians could be closing in on a deal for Jason Kubel.

Also for those stat geeks out there..

Indians' pitching staff has held hitters to .669 OPS (2nd best in AL) in August. Now, about that AL-worst .650 OPS by the Tribe lineup... via Jordan Bastian

Indians ERA updated postgame is 3.37 in August. Sixth best in baseball, yet team is 12-14 this month. via Pat McManamon

And yet I was concerned about the pitching staff pre-season. Most of the noise in the off-season was on the offense. Pitching looks good. Now I have to see all of those braves fans at work tomorrow. Sounds like fun, huh?

Re: Kubel: The best guess is that Matt Carson loses his spot... It's clear that Tito has Big G as a fave and won't remove him for any reason from the his bench duty. The hope is that a change of scenery might help.. Could be true... hopefully it is.. The report by MLB.com and the Arizona Republic writer, Nick Peicoro, offered a statement that the trade would involve a minor league player and cash considerations. It is likely that the Indians would be receiving the cash..not sending..

Chris Cotillo of MLBDailyDish.com was johnny on the spot with the story. Nick Piecoro of the Arizona Republic, the beat writer for the DBax clarified the story and confirmed it was a "go deal" last night with some added details. It should be noted that Indians beat writer for the only paper in town, woke up this morning, did a google search under "Indians, trades" and found the story about Kubel. P.H. has subsequently offered his clarification stating that the player going to the DBax "..isn't known right now and may not be known for a long time" what ever that means, and the amount of money involved in the "cash considerations" is also unknown. It's always nice to see P H can dig for & get the details of a story and let his audience know!!!.. s m h...

A few thoughts about "sweeeeeeping away" this bad taste and a standings update..

- Decent pitching in the series..you give up 8 runs in three games, you should win at least one, perhaps two..

- DUMB base running errors contributed to the adverse results.. one is too many..there were more than one..

- Miguel Cabrera has vowed to be in the lineup tonight when the Indians face the Tigers in Mo-Town.. lucky us..

-Indians lose 3-1 as Atlanta completes the sweep-Tampa was shut out 2-0-Baltimore edged Boston 3-2-The Yankees had the night off-Detroit crushed the A's hearts with a Torii Hunter 3 run bomb in the bottom of the 9th to complete a four run inning

theshow wrote:isn't releasing Myers just when he gets healthy kind of a waste? I know he was awful this year, but the guy has a proven track record as a bullpen guy. When not just try him in the pen?

Would have needed to open a 40-man spot for him. Gave up 3 runs in 2.1 innings in his last rehab stint in Akron. Even if he is fully healthy he likely wasn't going to help at all. I'd rather give anyone at AAA a shot in the pen at this point than Myers...who really wasn't that good as a reliever last year.

Plus sounds like he was not a good fit in that clubhouse. Sounds like no one in there will miss him (at least according to reports coming out)...

I can back up that he's a dick in the locker room. When he was rehabbing in MV, he bitched and moaned the whole time he was with the team. Caused a piss fit because a table he was sitting at was too low and didn't come up to his arms. A lot of the players had said he refused to talk to them. By comparison, CP who rehabbed in MV also signed every autograph request, took the team out for dinner after his game (and picked up the bill).

not buying it

A person (not going to reveal who) but a family member of mine is assistant GM for the Scrappers. Pretty sure I know what I'm talking about.

Nah, you dont know sh*t

Oh okay. Good to know.

For what it's worth Nick Camino (the real one) tweeted out that many players, staff members, coaches, and media members are thrilled he's gone. I think Andrew is a safe bet to trust on this one.

GeronimoSon wrote:Re: Kubel: The best guess is that Matt Carson loses his spot... It's clear that Tito has Big G as a fave and won't remove him for any reason from the his bench duty. The hope is that a change of scenery might help.. Could be true... hopefully it is.. The report by MLB.com and the Arizona Republic writer, Nick Peicoro, offered a statement that the trade would involve a minor league player and cash considerations. It is likely that the Indians would be receiving the cash..not sending..

Chris Cotillo of MLBDailyDish.com was johnny on the spot with the story. Nick Piecoro of the Arizona Republic, the beat writer for the DBax clarified the story and confirmed it was a "go deal" last night with some added details. It should be noted that Indians beat writer for the only paper in town, woke up this morning, did a google search under "Indians, trades" and found the story about Kubel. P.H. has subsequently offered his clarification stating that the player going to the DBax "..isn't known right now and may not be known for a long time" what ever that means, and the amount of money involved in the "cash considerations" is also unknown. It's always nice to see P H can dig for & get the details of a story and let his audience know!!!.. s m h...

Edible14 wrote:Well, he's better than Matt Carson. And he's not $7.5M for us, he's the pro-rated portion of that. Quick calculations tell me the Indians will be on the hook for about $1.34M.

Ed.. more details continue to come in.. your number may be slightly high, but, close enough. The Dbax are going to be the supplier for the "cash considerations" part of this deal:

...8:29am: The Diamondbacks are paying "nearly all" of the money still owed to Kubel (including his salary and buyout) and will receive a "fringe prospect" in return, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. He adds that Kubel will serve primarily as a DH against right-handed pitching with occasional time in the outfield (Twitter links).

One thing that obviously isn't true is the half-brained follow up by P H:

FRIDAY: 7:53am: The return may not be known for awhile, as Paul Hoynes of the Cleveland Plain Dealer tweets that Arizona will receive a player to be named later and cash from the Tribe.

In a legit "LOL" moment, The Twitter exploded just now with news that the Indians have signed Kelly freaking Shoppach to a minor league contract today, is expected to be added to the big league club on Sunday.

It seems like a "what's wrong with those guys" type moment in Seattle regarding the Kendrys Morales waiver / inability to make a deal situation.

The problems with Kendrys & the M's are just starting. The report by Ken Rosenthal of Fox Sports gets to the heart of the matter. The M's want to keep Kendrys, but, not at the price that his agent wants him signed for. Of course, that's none other than Scott Boras. The two sides appear to be painting themselves into separate but still proverbial corners. The M's refused to negotiate with the numbers Boras was offering, but, don't want to just let Kendrys go for nothing, so, will be making Kendrys a qualifying offer. Boras wants a long term five or more year deal. No team in their right mind would give Kendrys that kind of deal for that amount of money, let alone, sacrifice their unprotected first pick in the draft.. even if they believe the crap load of tripe regarding how Kendrys "could be" as productive as former Seattle escapee, Adrian Beltre... (BTW... Rosenthal points out the errors of this thinking)..

So the market begins by shrinking right from the outset. Kendrys could end up like Bourn.. he must go to a team that has it's first pick protected and he has to take a salary that will be millions in AAV lower than the QO offered by the M's for the one season.. That is, so the M's can, at the very least, get a sandwich pick in the June Rule IV draft..

These are the kind of negotiations that seem to last into the weeks after pitchers and catchers report to spring training.. Should be one of several stories that will emerge during the off season...

ASUTribefan wrote:getting bitch slapped again by the tigers, what else is new?well at least they waited until september to get eliminated this year

Well, Terry Francona and his coaching staff can only do so much. Chris Antonetti's moves in this offseason looked good in the first month or 2 looked good now look horrible. The difference right now is Dave Dombrowski vs. Chris Antonetti/Mark Shapiro.

You can say oh the tigers spent money on cabrera and fielder. The indians had a chance at miguel cabrera and florida wanted adam miller, jeremy sowers, and asdrubal. The indians said no. You look at how Detroit has made very shrewd moves like trading for Doug Fister, Sanchez, and now this SS when Peralta got suspended. Look at Max Scherzer and how they got him from Arizona.

Detroit gets these guys while remaining competitve. They didn't have to suck and trade vets for prospects like the indians.

Chris Antonetti- flops on Mark Reynolds, Brett Myers, and Nick Swisher and Bourn have turned out to be major disappointments. We don't have the luxury to be wrong on every free agent move. We are not asking him to be right all the time. But a hit on at least 1 or 2 guys would be nice.

Antonetti gave out the richest contract in indians history to nick swisher and he is giving us .240 BA. How the Dolans can put up with this FO's talent evaluation is mind boggling.

You have a FO in cleveland that isn't good at drafting and developing talent within the farm system and they don't know how to predict future success with free agents.

at least we didn't blow billions on Josh Hamilton and Albert Pujols. Free agents don't always work out, actually it seems they rarely do. Even Prince Fielder isn't a great player. Bourn came here at a good price and swisher isn't great, but he isnt terrible either. Both players offer things that don't show up on a stat sheet, so I'm still okay with the signings.

Well, you can argue that bourn and swisher are upgrades and have allowed us to compete for almost the whole season.

The problem is that we are comparing their production to what we had last year. When you had guys like shelley duncum, johnny damon and casey kotchman to compare to , you can easily say they provide things for this team that don't show up in the stats.

Nobody doubts Nick swisher is a good guy. He is a good clubhouse guy. The problem is that when you give a guy 14 million/yr and you are a small market team, you need more than that.

We need our guys to produce at a higher level. The starting pitching seems to be getting better and maybe there is some stability there over the next few years but you are getting nothing from a production standpoint from the last month from either of bourn and swisher. Bourn has been worse as his july was as bad as his august. The bullpen is a mess as they keep putting out rich hill in key situations and they get bitten every time he goes out there.

YOu brought in these guys to help avoid the collapse of the last few years and what are we seeing? Where is the leadership and production from the two guys we dished out over 100 million for. ?

Its not like we can go out on another free agent spree like last offseason. The fans in this town are pathetic and won't even support this team when they are in contention. so where do you get the money?

I don't envy the situation shapiro and antonetti are in but tampa is in a similar situation as they have a lousy fan base that don't support them even when they are contending. But Tampa finds a way to get good talent on their team and at the price that they want. They have a 57 million payroll this year and what is their record. What has their record been over the last 3-4 years. They find a way to contend without the support of the fans. The indians FO has to figure out a formula that works and allows them to get premium talent at an inexpensive price/ or the price that they want to pay.

Our FO to some extent was forced to overpay for bourn and swisher because of how bad they have been the last 5 years.

People on this board jump on me because i am critical of the drafting and talent evaluation, but this is what you get when you can't make proactive/sound evaluations of players.

ASUTribefan wrote:getting bitch slapped again by the tigers, what else is new?well at least they waited until september to get eliminated this year

Well, Terry Francona and his coaching staff can only do so much. Chris Antonetti's moves in this offseason looked good in the first month or 2 looked good now look horrible. The difference right now is Dave Dombrowski vs. Chris Antonetti/Mark Shapiro.

You can say oh the tigers spent money on cabrera and fielder. The indians had a chance at miguel cabrera and florida wanted adam miller, jeremy sowers, and asdrubal. The indians said no. You look at how Detroit has made very shrewd moves like trading for Doug Fister, Sanchez, and now this SS when Peralta got suspended. Look at Max Scherzer and how they got him from Arizona.

Detroit gets these guys while remaining competitve. They didn't have to suck and trade vets for prospects like the indians.

Chris Antonetti- flops on Mark Reynolds, Brett Myers, and Nick Swisher and Bourn have turned out to be major disappointments. We don't have the luxury to be wrong on every free agent move. We are not asking him to be right all the time. But a hit on at least 1 or 2 guys would be nice.

Antonetti gave out the richest contract in indians history to nick swisher and he is giving us .240 BA. How the Dolans can put up with this FO's talent evaluation is mind boggling.

You have a FO in cleveland that isn't good at drafting and developing talent within the farm system and they don't know how to predict future success with free agents.

Francona has as much say as Antonetti does or anybody else in the FO for that matter. in what world is Bourn a major disappointment? he's been a top CF in the AL this year. the FO has been pretty good at drafting and predicting success with FAs so far

As bad as we are playing right now, we are still 4.5 games out of a playoff spot. In 2005, we were 11 games out of first place going into september and we almost caught chicago before we flamed out.

Hopefully Kluber will be coming back soon and you can rest some of these guys a little more. That injury to Kluber really hurt this team. He was probably their best or 2nd best pitcher at the time of his injury because he was pitching well and going very deep into games.

Guys like swisher, bourn, and cabrera have to start earning their money and stop stealing from this team. Right now we need to stop the bleeding and get a win.

The spirit is broken because the so called leaders on this team are so unproductive. How can they lead when guys are hitting .240.

The indians waited too long to get rid of asdrubal in trying to get the perfect deal for him. He wasn't great last year but was decent. If you thought you were going to get a better OPS than .760 from him. That is about what he is.

the worst thing that happened was that asdrubal hit 25 HR's in a season. he actually thought he was a power hitter.

Enough about these players. It is like a broken record with this FO. They hold onto guys too long and don't trade players when they have value.

I am all for sitting chisenhall down and playing jose ramirez at 3B. I think they should play ramirez at SS and 3B because maybe we will start getting quality AB''s from that side of the infield. I am all for playing ramirez and aviles more the rest of the season . You know what the other 2 underachivers are going to give you. Everybody was convinced asdrubal was going to have a big 2nd half of the season. He has been worse.

The problem too next year is with Lindor's back injury, he will probably start in akron and not be ready for cleveland until late next season. So you need to see if Ramirez can give you some quality AB's. If Ramirez can give you good defense at SS, you can live with his numbers that he put up at Akron. He is at least going to put the ball in play.

indians1 wrote:The spirit is broken because the so called leaders on this team are so unproductive. How can they lead when guys are hitting .240.

The indians waited too long to get rid of asdrubal in trying to get the perfect deal for him. He wasn't great last year but was decent. If you thought you were going to get a better OPS than .760 from him. That is about what he is.

the worst thing that happened was that asdrubal hit 25 HR's in a season. he actually thought he was a power hitter.

Enough about these players. It is like a broken record with this FO. They hold onto guys too long and don't trade players when they have value.

I am all for sitting chisenhall down and playing jose ramirez at 3B. I think they should play ramirez at SS and 3B because maybe we will start getting quality AB''s from that side of the infield. I am all for playing ramirez and aviles more the rest of the season . You know what the other 2 underachivers are going to give you. Everybody was convinced asdrubal was going to have a big 2nd half of the season. He has been worse.

The problem too next year is with Lindor's back injury, he will probably start in akron and not be ready for cleveland until late next season. So you need to see if Ramirez can give you some quality AB's. If Ramirez can give you good defense at SS, you can live with his numbers that he put up at Akron. He is at least going to put the ball in play.

Christ you suck at getting facts right, you just suck at posting in general

@Indians: Indians have traded RHP MATT LANGWELL to the Arizona Diamondbacks to complete the August 30th trade that sent OF JASON KUBEL to Cleveland.

Well, that solves the question I had, which is how exactly they were getting a 40 man spot cleared to call up Clay Rapada (per Hoynes). Sad to see it, although I didn't think he was anything special (righties that throw 91 aren't exactly back-end material), I'm not convinced that a month of Jason Kubel is a good trade.

@Indians: Indians have traded RHP MATT LANGWELL to the Arizona Diamondbacks to complete the August 30th trade that sent OF JASON KUBEL to Cleveland.

Well, that solves the question I had, which is how exactly they were getting a 40 man spot cleared to call up Clay Rapada (per Hoynes). Sad to see it, although I didn't think he was anything special (righties that throw 91 aren't exactly back-end material), I'm not convinced that a month of Jason Kubel is a good trade.

I get your point but as Kubel exits te 40 man later, it opens a spot for Carlos Moncrief or Jesus Anguilar to be added.Or it creates a spot to re-add on of those on the 60 day DL.

I was thinking the arm would be Bryan Price but he stays at this point. I wish Matt good luck moving forward but I doubted he had a role here moving forward....

The Indians' recent trade for outfielder Jason Kubel and signing of catcher Kelly Shoppach demonstrate that their Triple-A affiliate in Columbus lacks hitting prospects, argues Terry Pluto of the Cleveland Plain Dealer. Pluto also writes that the Indians were not likely to trade for Justin Morneau of the Twins (who ultimately went to the Pirates) because their attendance this season has been disappointing, and they therefore wouldn't be willing to pay for the rest of Morneau's contract. Here are more notes from around the AL Central.The Indians have already pulled the plug on a total $13MM investment in Mark Reynolds and Brett Myers, but Indians president Mark Shapiro tells Pluto that one-year contracts tend to be volatile. "When you sign a free agent for one year, you know you are dealing in a highly speculative market," Shapiro says. Pluto notes, however, that productive seasons from minor-league signees Scott Kazmir and Ryan Raburn have helped the Indians compensate for the struggles of Reynolds and Myers.

Ahhhhh... two days on the water.. no telephone (cell service was there..but.), no television.. no tell anything.. The sail to Turkey Point on the Canadian side of the lake was serenity times two.. And not once did the radio get turned on to hear about the results of Indians meeting with the Tigers on Saturday & Sunday.. Well, it sounds as if by the end of Saturday, the regular 'cup half empty' crowd would be crying about the lack of any heart of courage of the Wahoos..the losses were inevitable and the end was near..Sunday, after mooring, it was clear.. this team has the courage of its convictions and will be playing meaningful games in September, and, possibly in October..

Without having watched the games, I'll only say at the start of play today..

The indians can make up some ground but it has to start today. We are basically out of the division unless we go on a major run and Detroit does what Chicago did in 2005 and falls apart until the last week of september.

The only difference is that we don't have a Kevin Milwood and CC Sabathia pitching some of the best games of their career.

We are chasing really 1 team right now and that is Tampa. To expect us to make up 6 games on oakland with 26 or 27 games remaining is optimistic. Unless Oakland starts playing bad baseball and plays sub. 500 baseball, we cannot catch them.