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I like Kanba a lot, although I didn't until episode 5. I think episode 5 gave Kanba the human aspect I needed to feel for his character.

Kanba is arrogant, a play boy, and has probably hurt many girls but I think he DOES care about protecting his family (not just Himari).

As for the whole incest angle well obviously I feel it is wrong to list after your sister but I think it's more of an innocent infatuation and maybe Kanba letting go of Himari is something he will need to do to develop, but who knows.

I do think part of the reason he hurts those girls is because they don't live up to his sister.

However going back to protecting his family: There is the obvious going after the hat scene but then there is also that shady business he is involved in to let them keep their house.

Why I say he cares about Shouma too is he doesn't let Shouma know about what he is involved in. There is also one line in episode 2 or 3 where he tells Shouma to keep his innocence (or something to that effect).

And in episode 10

Spoiler for just in case:

While Kanba did not give up the diary for Shouma he did take it on himself to rescue his brother and promised to get him back.

Obviously Kanba was in way over his head and could have put Shouma in danger...but I don't think he was thinking this. If he thought he couldn't save Shouma then he would have acted differently. And I think he did act differently when he realized he couldn't handle the situation after all

And Himari mentioned how worried Kanba was about Shouma (although he was embarrassed about this)

So yeah Kanba is certainly flawed but human all the same. It's actually the same reason I like Ringo.

So yeah Kanba is certainly flawed but human all the same. It's actually the same reason I like Ringo.

The difference is that Ringo's flaws are questioned/challenged by the narrative (specially when Shouma confronts her, but also through the use of symbolism). Kanba's flaws, specially his lack of morals and his inability to care for anyone besides his family, are not. He's mostly depicted in heroic fashion when he's doing things for his family and his flaws are never put on the forefront. In fact, the narrative seems to make an effort to make him appear as a better persona then he really is, which in turn makes me like him less.

The difference is that Ringo's flaws are questioned/challenged by the narrative (specially when Shouma confronts her, but also through the use of symbolism). Kanba's flaws, specially his lack of morals and his inability to care for anyone besides his family, are not. In fact, he's mostly depicted in heroic fashion when he's doing things for his family and he's flaws are never put on the forefront. In fact, the narrative seems to make an effort to make him appear as a better persona then he really is.

I disagree I think the WAY Kanba treats girls is shown to be very negative.

And I also expect that Kanba's feelings for his sister will not be rewarded in the end.

I mean this whole thing with Natsume is probably something Kanba put on himself.

As for the shady stuff Kanba is involved with I am also sure that will come back to bite him too.

I think the next few episode will be Kanba's arc and I believe his careless actions will come back to hurt him. And yes it will be his fault.

But deep down I DO think Kanba is a good guy just like I think Ringo is not a bad person. A character being flawed and being bad are two different things.

Maybe, maybe not. As of now, the story has brushed off all that stuff, which is part of my problem.

The story has mainly focused on Ringo's story but has given us hints of Kanba's story as well.

He is being taunted by Natsume who is using his past negative relationships with girls. So it doesn't seem brushed off to me at all.

Quote:

Maybe, but again, it hasn't happened yet, so I can't count on that.

But it is already starting..just in this last episode when Kanba makes fun of all the gifts he was given by girls he is confronted by these gifts.

We still don't know what Natsume's relationship to Kanba is. Was she a scorned suitor or something else? Were those her gifts or the gifts of other girls Kanba has scorned and she stole their memories?

Either way I think the story has shown that Kanba will have problems ahead and this is just the start.

You think so? Except for some halfhearted comments by Shouma, I don't remember the story caring too much about Kanba's attitude with the ladies.

Well, the ladies themselves seemed to care.

Having a bunch of people pissed off with you like that isn't the end of the world, but it's certainly not ideal either.

I don't think the anime presents his playboy quality in a particularly positive or a negative light. It just is.

In fact, having watched a lot of modern anime, my suspicion is that MPD will argue the following about Kana...

Spoiler for Kana romance speculations:

Kanba will be revealed to be a man desperately trying to get over his romantic affections for his sister, by scouring the Earth for a girlfriend that can capture his passions. Alas, his love for his sister is simply too strong, and none of the many women he's encountered can capture his passion, and shift it away from his sister.

So in the end, his playboy activities will be seen as a futile attempt to escape from his "true love" feelings for Himari...

We still don't know what Natsume's relationship to Kanba is. Was she a scorned suitor or something else? Were those her gifts or the gifts of other girls Kanba has scorned and she stole their memories?

See? We still don't know anything. For all we know Natsume could be just a Ringo-like obsessed bi*ch. We still have yet to see something clear about Kanba being in the wrong here.

EDIT

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I don't think the anime presents his playboy quality in a particularly positive or a negative light. It just is.

But that's the problem. For example, even Shouma's morals are challenged: Kanba accused him of not caring enough about Himari, more than once; Ringo accused him of using his morals as a front to avoid facing Himari, etc. Nobody has called Kanba on his sh*t like that. Things may change in future episodes but that's how they are right now.

See? We still don't know anything. For all we know Natsume could be just a Ringo-like obsessed bi*ch. We still have yet to see something clear about Kanba being in the wrong here.

EDIT

But that's the problem. For example, even Shouma's morals are challenged: Kanba accused him of not caring enough about Himari, more than once; Ringo accused him of using his morals as a front to avoid facing Himari, etc. Nobody has called Kanba on his sh*t like that. Things may change in future episodes but that's how they are right now.

The thing is, who's going to call out Kanba? Shouma is much too soft for that. Ringo is likely oblivious to Kanba's more questionable activities, as she's wrapped up in her own romantic/familial concerns.

So that leaves Himari. My sense is that if Himari challenges Kanba on his playboy activities, it will be a watershed moment... and, yes, a watershed moment that will likely lead into Kanba/Himari.

So I think the anime is saving this for later, since it'll be a big, and possibly climatic moment.

I don't think Kanba's playboy lifestyle will be "just there" forever. I think it will play into wherever the anime decides to go when it comes to Kanba and Himari.

If we don't know what he did, then we don't know if what he did was bad either, which was kinda my point. So why are we even arguing about this?

I just am saying for me all the signs point to it being something bad. I am not trying to argue with you...Just a discussion. Hey I know my words won't change your mind just saying why I see things differently.

But I will add one more thing: Natsume makes reference to the story of Theseus

"The Treacherous hero who followed Ariadne's red thread"

In the myth Ariadne who loves Theseus helps him escape through the Labyrinth. But after he escapes he deserts her.

See? We still don't know anything. For all we know Natsume could be just a Ringo-like obsessed bitch. We still have yet to see something clear about Kanba being in the wrong here.

By that same token, we don't know anything about Kanba's relationships with past girls either.

Did he cheat on them? Did he just go from girl to girl with no pause or attraction? Was he the one who approached them or did they approach him? How many of them has he actually dated? Why did he date them? How long did he date them? Did he enjoy going out with them? Was the romance entirely one sided? How long between girls?

For all we know he could just always be pursued by girls and has decided to indulge in a few becasue he honestly felt something for them, only to end up disappointed and dumped them.

Having dated many girls does not in itself = bad.

Its how he treated those girls while he went out with them that matters. And as for breaking up with them? People get hurt in relationships. Its normal and can't really be helped. Better to break it off before things get too serious and someone gets seriously hurt.

The way he talked about those girls' gifts comes off to me more like they were trying to seduce him/ early days of the relationship and he found it creepy and too much too soon.

I mean wedding cake? Urgh, wrongsick.

Basically he spoke like they were unwanted advances.

So far, the only girls I remember him interacting with are the girl on the train he flirted with to get his bro out of trouble, Ringo who he disliked cause she is a crazy stalker, Himari who he loves, and the brief interaction he had with the girls whose memories were erased, which was more him going WTF than anything else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

But that's the problem. For example, even Shouma's morals are challenged: Kanba accused him of not caring enough about Himari, more than once; Ringo accused him of using his morals as a front to avoid facing Himari, etc. Nobody has challenged Kanba's shit like that. Things may change in future episodes but that's how they are right now.

As you've said, Shoma has called him on it, though not made a huge deal of it. The girls themselves were obviously not happy either. Ep 10 was just an endless stream of shoving his past actions with girls into his face, though we don't know what will happen next.

So far, the series has foced on Shoma and Ringo, so of course their flaults have been explored and called out on. Now that the focus has shifted to Kamba, his faults have a chance of being explored.

The thing is, who's going to call out Kanba? Shouma is much too soft for that. Ringo is likely oblivious to Kanba's more questionable activities, as she's wrapped up in her own romantic/familial concerns.

Which is very convenient and manipulative, since in the meantime we have to see him being depicted as the hero he really isn't.

But it's not only the playboy thing. What about the fact he doesn't care about anyone besides his family? For example, when he went to see Kuho at the hospital it was pretty obvious he didn't care about her state, and was there only because he thought her accident was related to the penguindrum somehow. That, for me, is even worst than being a playboy, and I really want the story to call him on that shit in some way. But as things stand now I know I shouldn't expect that because I can tell Ikuhara has a freaking fetish with Kanba. I still hope so, though.

Which is very convenient and manipulative, since in the meantime we have to see him being depicted as the hero he really isn't.

But it's not only the playboy thing. What about the fact he doesn't care about anyone besides his family? For example, when he went to see Kuho at the hospital it was pretty obvious he didn't care about her state, and was there only because he thought her accident was related to the penguindrum somehow. That, for me, is even worst than being a playboy, and I really want the story to call him on that shit in some way. But as things stand now I know I shouldn't expect that because I can tell Ikuhara has a freaking fetish with Kanba. I still hope so, though.

Well, there's something that maybe we should consider here.

Maybe Ikuhara is sincerely arguing through the MPD narrative that family should come first, and that it's right for people to deeply care about their parents and siblings, and to go to somewhat extreme lengths for them.

Kanba and Ringo are the proactive protagonists of this anime so far, and each has had many scenes where s/he's made to look 'cool'. Both have also gone to extreme lengths for the sake of family.

Shouma is the all-around nice guy who hesitates to take extreme measures to help his sister, and he's been victimized by the plot more than anybody else. If this anime has a "buttmonkey", it's Shouma.

At this juncture, maybe we should seriously consider that this does in fact reflect Ikuhara's personal worldview.

We don't need to agree with Ikuhara's worldview, of course, but maybe this is what he's saying.

Maybe Ikuhara is sincerely arguing through the MPD narrative that family should come first, and that it's right for people to deeply care about their parents and siblings, and to go to somewhat extreme lengths for them.

Kanba and Ringo are the proactive protagonists of this anime so far, and each has had many scenes where s/he's made to look 'cool'. Both have also gone to extreme lengths for the sake of family.

Shouma is the all-around nice guy who hesitates to take extreme measures to help his sister, and he's been victimized by the plot more than anybody else. If this anime has a "buttmonkey", it's Shouma.

At this juncture, maybe we should seriously consider that this does in fact reflect Ikuhara's personal worldview.

We don't need to agree with Ikuhara's worldview, of course, but maybe this is what he's saying.

I'd say that be completely contrary to his views if we consider the family relationships in Utena. For example Nanami and Touga, she put him above everyone else and was cruel to others because of that. It was portrayed very negatively in that light and in the end, she got better, i.e got past that obsession. Same thing can be said of Miki and Kozue to a somewhat different extent.

I expect him to take some middle ground on both guys are extremes are called extreme for a reason. You can almost always accomplish something without going to them.

family should come first, and that it's right for people to deeply care about their parents and siblings, and to go to somewhat extreme lengths for them.

While I get where you're coming from, I fail to see how caring about your family first means not to care about anyone else at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Kanba and Ringo are the proactive protagonists of this anime so far, and each has had many scenes where s/he's made to look 'cool'. Both have also gone to extreme lengths for the sake of family. Shouma is the all-around nice guy who hesitates to take extreme measures to help his sister, and he's been victimized by the plot more than anybody else. If this anime has a "buttmonkey", it's Shouma.

Shouma is definitely the buttmonkey, yeah, but Ringo has been made fun of quite a bit too. It's only Kanba, IMO, who is mostly depicted in a positive fashion despite his flaws.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

At this juncture, maybe we should seriously consider that this does in fact reflect Ikuhara's personal worldview. We don't need to agree with Ikuhara's worldview, of course, but maybe this is what he's saying.

I do think you're onto something here, and yeah, if what I've seen so far truly reflects Ikuhara's overall message then I definitely don't agree with it.

The problem is it is hard to judge characters at this point of the series when we have lack of information especially since this series is meant to be mysterious. I suppose everyone approaches that differently.

Like I said I didn't like Kanba until episode 5 until I saw some positive traits mixed in with the bad. Caring about your family is admirable, but yes Kanba has to learn family isn't the only thing that is important.

I expect Kanba will learn from his mistakes before the end. Maybe I am acting on faith and not everyone can do that.

Edit: Nanami was also my favorite Utena character and I see similarities with her and Kanba. Not that I am saying Kanba is my favorite from this series. It's way too early for me to say that.

i also like kanba, though not as much as shoma at this point. i do think that his playboy thing is a tad exaggerated. we basically got that assessment from shoma

and yeah while kanba does seem to have a lot of ex girlfriends (especially after the gift spiel), i can't help but be reminded by how kanba's been pretty shady so far, acquiring money from the kiga (or half-shaded) penguin group. which is curiously the same logo their dad had on his shirt.

idk, maybe kanba is using the playboy thing as a convenient cover-up to his actual activities? not to mention, he's a total siscon and fighting hard for his family in general.