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In Alpha 9 you will notice an additional number when facing a NPC or a POI. This is the "level" of your opponent.

What effect does the level have?

The Level of the enemy is basically a MULTIPLIER of its attack (Damage of his weapon) and defense (Hitpoint) values, pretty much like the decision, which Difficulty mode to start the game with does also multiply the attack/defense parameters.

The Level is an additional multiplier.

Basic Multipliers for Difficulty modes

EASY = 0.5

MEDIUM = 1

HARD = 2

Level multipliers (0.1667-stepping)

Level 10 = 2.5

Level 9 = 2.33

Level 8 = 2.17

Level 7 = 2.00

Level 6 = 1.83

Level 5 = 1.67

Level 4 = 1.50

Level 3 = 1.33

Level 2 = 1.17

Level 1 = 1.00

Reads: If you played on MEDIUM before and now run into a Level 10 NPC on the same difficulty level, the NPC is 2.5x stronger than in Alpha 8.

>> THIS is also our main feedback request on that topic (see below)

How does this work?

Example 1: You start the game on EASY and run into an NPC with level 10. His attack/defense values are multiplied with (0.5 x 2.5 ) = 1.25

Example 2: You start a game on HARD and run into an NPC with level 10 = 2 x 2.5 = 5 x attack/defense

Example 3: You start a game on EASY and run into a NPC with level 1 = 0.5 x 0.25 = 0.125

Why do POIs also have a level and what does this mean?

The level of a POI tells you which NPC-levels spawn there - with a slight variance: In a POI level 10 you can run into NPCs of level 7-10.

Note: the level also applies to turrets!

For Creators: where do i define the levels?

For SSG (Randomly created solar systems via SolarSystem Generator):

Levels can be set in the SOLARSYSTEMCONFIG.yaml in the parameter "PlayfieldLevel"

The level of a playfield defines the maximum levels of the POIs and Entities (on terrain) that will spawn there.

The level of the POI will then define the NPCs spawning inside

You can give a RANGE for the PlayfieldLevel like: PlayfieldLevel: [6, 8]
Example:

You set the range for playfield levels to [6, 10] in the SSG / Solarsytemconfig

This means you can bascially get playfields between these ranges when the solar system is generated on game start

On a playfield level 8 you can see a small variant of POI and Terrain-NPCs UP TO level 8 (like 6-8) but NEVER above 8

For Fixed Systems
The level can also be set DIRECTLY in the playfield.yaml, but WITHOUT a range.

You can give an EXACT maximum Level for an individual playfield like: PlayfieldLevel: 8

This means you will get POIs and Terrain-Entities up to that level (with the same variance, like 6 or 7 might show up, but never 9 or 10)

(New) You can increase the Level for a BIOME with a new parameter added to the biome definition in the playfield.yaml.

"LevelMod: +<level>"

Use any positive Integer value for <level>, like +2 = the level of this biome is +3 higher than the game-start/main definitions have set it.

--Asking dumb questions about something that might seem to have obvious reasons, means ruling out the reasons that might have something or nothing to do with it (aka issue sharpening)

Re-installed and tried it out on the Experimental server. Being forced to use an underpowered weapon at level 1 to fight off raptors 3-4 levels higher isn't fun. Being frustrated and dying a bunch of times because you have to be some arbitrary lame level to build a Constructor so you can get a decent weapon that can actually stop a threat is flat-out crap gameplay.

I liked Emp better when it could be enjoyed casually instead of how it is now where it seems the devs think it's fun to handicap the players to the point of frustration.

This isn't fun. It's frustrating. It's also an outdated design concept that creates artificial challenge that shouldn't be used in modern games. Give us more variety in our enemies, how they attack us, make us THINK. Don't just go, "welp, this guy hits harder and does more damage, job done" and assume that that actually equates to proper challenge.

This is a bad idea and it's outright lazy compared to updating AI, adding new enemy types with new weapons, tactics, et all.

I liked Emp better when it could be enjoyed casually instead of how it is now where it seems the devs think it's fun to handicap the players to the point of frustration.

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To be fair, this is both Experimental and customizable--if you start a singleplayer game you have more control and options.

...That said, I'm with the general consensus about levels (both for NPCs and the players themselves) being detrimental to the game experience without a clear shift to more of a Role Playing Game genre...

Don't get me wrong: I love RPGs done well. But is Empyrion meant to be one?

I'm not a fan of level scaling, and making the game more "difficult" by turning enemies into bullet sponges. I don't think it's a good mechanic in FPS (Serious Sam for example), (MMO)RPGs and etc. If I were to add a "level" mechanic to enemies/POI, it would be something of a "suggested" player level requirement in order to meet the challenge properly.

I say this, because right now player level is directly associated with his tech unlocks, so a level 10 POI would be better suited to level 10 unlocked weapons, while a level 20 POI would be best tackled with level 20 unlocks. Regarding any modifiers to enemies according to difficulty, I suggest a different approach: enemy behavior CHANGES with difficulty level.

Let's take the spiders for example. Right now, they charge you a little, then run away just to charge again, and it's well explained why in the Empyrionpedia. Let's say that this is the "Medium Difficulty" Spider behavior. On Easy, they would wander in fewer numbers, maybe even not be hostile when alone. Now on Hard, they would be found in pods of at least 4, AND they would maul to death. No running away, just pure hate for the player. All this while maintaining their stats, only changing their numbers/behavior.

Another example would be herbivores. On Hard, make them charge the player on sight when young ones are around. If it's just adults, they should get startled and then angry if you fire a weapon or use drills near them. Make the world not outright hostile for the player, but very unwelcoming for him.

Regarding humanoid NPCs/Enemies, also maintain their stats and just change their numbers, equipment and variety of it. Sure their base stats can and should be different, but they should ultimately the "same" equipment as the players and make them follow the same "rules".

I think that changing gameplay, rather than scaling stats up and down, would be a healthier way to deal with levels and difficulty in Empyrion.

EDIT: just as an anedcote... Started a medium survival game, faced 3 spiders - apair of lvl 1 and a lvl 2. Just circle strafed them with my survival tool and killed them all without taking damage. But that took some 40s. Later on, faced a pair of lvl 3 with a lvl 2 spider in tow, same deal; the only difference is that I took more time to kill them with the survival tool. That's not really a challenge, just plain boring. If they all kept on top of me on a higher level/difficulty, THAT would be more terrifying.

I'm not a fan of level scaling, and making the game more "difficult" by turning enemies into bullet sponges. I don't think it's a good mechanic in FPS (Serious Sam for example), (MMO)RPGs and etc. If I were to add a "level" mechanic to enemies/POI, it would be something of a "suggested" player level requirement in order to meet the challenge properly.

I say this, because right now player level is directly associated with his tech unlocks, so a level 10 POI would be better suited to level 10 unlocked weapons, while a level 20 POI would be best tackled with level 20 unlocks. Regarding any modifiers to enemies according to difficulty, I suggest a different approach: enemy behavior CHANGES with difficulty level.

Let's take the spiders for example. Right now, they charge you a little, then run away just to charge again, and it's well explained why in the Empyrionpedia. Let's say that this is the "Medium Difficulty" Spider behavior. On Easy, they would wander in fewer numbers, maybe even not be hostile when alone. Now on Hard, they would be found in pods of at least 4, AND they would maul to death. No running away, just pure hate for the player. All this while maintaining their stats, only changing their numbers/behavior.

Another example would be herbivores. On Hard, make them charge the player on sight when young ones are around. If it's just adults, they should get startled and then angry if you fire a weapon or use drills near them. Make the world not outright hostile for the player, but very unwelcoming for him.

Regarding humanoid NPCs/Enemies, also maintain their stats and just change their numbers, equipment and variety of it. Sure their base stats can and should be different, but they should ultimately the "same" equipment as the players and make them follow the same "rules".

I think that changing gameplay, rather than scaling stats up and down, would be a healthier way to deal with levels and difficulty in Empyrion.

EDIT: just as an anedcote... Started a medium survival game, faced 3 spiders - apair of lvl 1 and a lvl 2. Just circle strafed them with my survival tool and killed them all without taking damage. But that took some 40s. Later on, faced a pair of lvl 3 with a lvl 2 spider in tow, same deal; the only difference is that I took more time to kill them with the survival tool. That's not really a challenge, just plain boring. If they all kept on top of me on a higher level/difficulty, THAT would be more terrifying.

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I agree; let higher level enemies become more skilled rather than simply bullet sponges. If hardier enemies are warranted, introduce a new enemy type (e.g. Armored Spider) that has more HP and stronger attacks.

Regarding humanoid NPCs/Enemies, also maintain their stats and just change their numbers, equipment and variety of it. Sure their base stats can and should be different, but they should ultimately the "same" equipment as the players and make them follow the same "rules".

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I just want to specifically highlight this part again. It's good and consistent if NPCs play by the same rules as players.

With the new AI capabilities (pathfinding ... ) the enemies automatically have more options to be a threat.
I think the balancing of their HP and weapon-output (an accuracy) will have to be rebalanced from the ground up.
The bulletsponge thing and very long melee attack distances where a workaround for their limited mobility.

Since they can follow and chase the player now, they dont actually need so much raw power and can rely more on positioning and dynamic attacks.

For example the troup transport cound now drop them near the players base, and let them actually enter it.
the player has to build the base more secure to counter this.

An elevator, door or ramp does not deter them anymore. (at least their own doors they can open).

The drones can also track the player better. Hiding behind a pole is not an easy way out anymore.
(They manage to reposition for an attack way better)

Overall the game profits from leveling enemies.
Empyrion has a lot of item inflation (resources gathered over time). So there needs to be some system that can adjust to varying capabilities of the player.
(hence leveling them up)
This will challange starting and advanced players alike, and can "soft-gate" areas.

The level of areas should follow the players progression (starting area, exploring starter planet, first space flight + moon, first warp flight, exotic planets...) and be fixed at generation time. - With some high level POIs on the starter planet to have a reason to come back later.
(Maybe when the player has very high equipment stats (maxed out), the game could boost the level accordingly for all areas.)

But a predetermined level will make the player have more sense of achievement, and not be punished when getting stronger. The player can choose to first conquer the easy POIs, or go to strong ones earlier than intended.

I would really like to get the original "grace period" back. Getting swarmed by spiders very early on is bit much. At least make it an option on the config file .

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Yet another example of how different difficulties should change creatures and their behavior rather than simply being levels. Hard could have aggressive attacks from the start, while Easy could have an entire starting biome with passive creatures no matter how much time has passed.

I can just see it now sponge-bob jumping out of the troop transport with a knife in his teeth and holding an automatic grenade launcher, saying I'm LEVEL 20 Ya'lll........ oh wait that probably would be cool....;p

In all seriousness it would be better if there were enemy power suits on the higher levels.... bullet sponges yes but slow to move. hey look that one is wearing a huge set of armor... better keep my distance.

An example in making the AI harder without giving them more HP and Weapon damage:

-let them have a flee and regenerate behavior.
If they get hurt, lets say below 40%, the flee to a safe spot (not in sight of the player, or a minimum distance away) and use a health kit or regenerate. Then attack again.

Another ability would be their capability to altert friends.
A high level NPC could call out to a larger distance, drawing in the whole group to attack the player.
A lower level NPC could only alert allies in the immediate area.

Sidestepping: higher level NPCs could use more side-stepping (strafing shots). And more forward-backward movement (as when in cover behind a corner). They do know where to stop already (first free line of sight to player). Then attack, then walk 1 meter back where they came from. (back into cover)

Flanking: some enemies dont run towards the player, but to a position the player was at like 20 seconds before. (with a certain distance limit)
Then run towards the player. Its a good chance that they will surprise the player to be suddenly behind him.

I'm going to assume the point is to have the planets themselves be harder as they go along and not have to rank pois. A commander of sorts wouldn't work well because the abandoned mine could very well be on the starter planet and an end game one. I think the question being asked is how to have a minigun guy be challenging on both start and end game areas. Honestly I'm not a fan of bullet spungs either , I would suggest separating the HP and damage stats. High HP low dmg or visa versa might be fun as well.

This is a comment on the UI, rather than the concept itself;
It feels somewhat awkward, how the info is presented. For almost any game I can think of, that does 'named NPCs' (optionally with level aswell), their nameplate follow them, rather than follow the screen.

As it is now, the bar is displayed fixed, rather than relative to the NPC
To me atleast, this feels rather awkward

The game shows the stats of enemies pointed at with the crosshair (in the middle). Its not using a marker to select the target. So the UI info cant be outside the middle even if its moves with the entity. Might be as well fixed at one positon then.

The game shows the stats of enemies pointed at with the crosshair (in the middle). Its not using a marker to select the target. So the UI info cant be outside the middle even if its moves with the entity. Might be as well fixed at one positon then.

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As my screenshots shows, it's rather noticeable that it is fixed to the screen, rather than the NPC.. to me atleast, this is a really weird feeling.