[Posala:]To one who reveals the past — unperturbed, his doubts cut through — who has gone to the beyond of all phenomena, I've come with a question. I ask the Sakyan about the knowledge [1] of one devoid of perception of forms, who has abandoned all the body, every body, who sees, within & without, 'There is nothing': How is he to be led further on?

[The Buddha:]The Tathagata, knowing directly all stations of consciousness, [2] knows for one stationed in them release & the steps leading there. Knowing directly the origin of nothingness to be the fetter of delight, one then sees there clearly. That's his genuine knowledge — the brahman who has lived to fulfillment.

Notes

1. Posala's question concerning the knowledge of the person in the dimension of nothingness has a double meaning: He is asking about the Buddha's knowledge about that person, and also what a person in that dimension of attainment should do to develop his/her knowledge even further. The Buddha's answer deals with the question in both its senses.

(To) the one who points out the past, said venerable Posàla,the unmoved one, who has cut off doubt,who is perfect in everything, I have come in need with a question:For the one in whom perception of form has ended,(who), on the inside and outside is seeing `there is nothing whatsoever', [1]I ask about (his) knowledge, Sakyan, how is such a one led further?

All the stations of consciousness, Posàla, said the Gracious One,the Realised One knows,he knows where that one stands, what he is intent on, what he is going towards.Having known the origin of nothingness, and that enjoyment is called a fetter,knowing deeply that it is so, and then having insight into this:this is real knowedge for him, for the brahmin who is accomplished.

[1] This again refers to the sphere of nothingness (àkiÿcaÿÿàyatanaü).

Knowing directly the origin of nothingness to be the fetter of delight, one then sees there clearly.

Metta,Retro.

If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding: Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)

Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7

Thanks - that makes a bit more sense now... I was taking nothingness literally, rather than as a description of a conditioned formless jhana.

Since literal nothingness is not formed/fashioned (i.e. sankhata) I didn't see how it could be associated with fetters.

Metta,Retro.

If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding: Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)

Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7

Thanks - that makes a bit more sense now... I was taking nothingness literally, rather than as a description of a conditioned formless jhana.

Since literal nothingness is not formed/fashioned (i.e. sankhata) I didn't see how it could be associated with fetters.

Metta,Retro.

The Buddha did describe an "an inter-cosmic[1] void, an unrestrained darkness, a pitch-black darkness, where even the light of the sun & moon — so mighty, so powerful — doesn't reach." I think that's meant to be taken literally. Was he referring to black holes maybe? Other than that, is "literal nothingness" found in the suttas?http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

kirk5a wrote:Other than that, is "literal nothingness" found in the suttas?

No, but on first reading that's what I thought it was pointing to... hence my confusion.

Metta,Retro.

If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding: Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)

Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7

A clearer instance comes in the Posālamāṇavapucchā ofthe Pārāyanavagga in the Sutta Nipāta, namely the term vib-hūtarūpasaññissa, occurring in one of the verses there.

Vibhåta-råpa-saÿÿissa, sabba-kàyappahàyino,For the one in whom perception of form has ended,ajjhattaÿ-ca bahiddhà ca n' atthi kiÿcã ti passato,(who), on the inside and outside is seeing `there is nothing whatsoever',ÿàõaü Sakkànupucchàmi, kathaü neyyo tathàvidho?I ask about (his) knowledge, Sakyan, how is such a one led further?"

The canonical commentary Cūḷaniddesa, which the commentatoroften draws upon, also paraphrases the term with the words vi-gatā, atikkantā, samatikkantā, vītivattā, "gone, transcended,fully transcended, and superseded".

So the word vibhūta in the passage in question definitelyimplies the absence of all those perceptions in that concentra-tion. This, then, is a unique concentration. It has none of theobjects which the worldlings usually associate with a level ofconcentration.