OP you are really overcomplicating this. Muscle is muscle. Doing deadlifts will put a lot of muscle on your legs and back. That's all there is to it. If you want to stay cut that's about how you eat, not about what exercises you do.

OP you are really overcomplicating this. Muscle is muscle. Doing deadlifts will put a lot of muscle on your legs and back. That's all there is to it. If you want to stay cut that's about how you eat, not about what exercises you do.

Good point. It's possible I did too much weight, haven't practiced them enough, etc.; however, when I have done them, I've felt completely destroyed and absolutely smashed my day's macros. Maybe it was a willpower problem, IDK. I think my main question is whether I'm missing anything that can't be recovered elsewhere in the gym, because my body /hurt/ for a solid 36 hours after.

"Limitations are for people that have them. Excuses are for people that need them."

Good point. It's possible I did too much weight, haven't practiced them enough, etc.; however, when I have done them, I've felt completely destroyed and absolutely smashed my day's macros. Maybe it was a willpower problem, IDK. I think my main question is whether I'm missing anything that can't be recovered elsewhere in the gym, because my body /hurt/ for a solid 36 hours after.

I'm sure you had a similar experience the first time you squatted too. If you continued to deadlift your body would adjust accordingly and you won't feel so much like sh*t the next day.

Good point. It's possible I did too much weight, haven't practiced them enough, etc.; however, when I have done them, I've felt completely destroyed and absolutely smashed my day's macros. Maybe it was a willpower problem, IDK. I think my main question is whether I'm missing anything that can't be recovered elsewhere in the gym, because my body /hurt/ for a solid 36 hours after.

My personal opinion, your legs and lower back support you on just about every major compound exercise worth a damn in turn making you better at those lifts. You'll be hard pressed to improve those muscle groups to the degree that deadlifts will with supplemental exercises. Not to mention they recruit the most amount of muscle of any exercise, and more muscle recruitment = more muscle development = better muscular base to cut down to (aesthetics). Just my 2 cents.

Hmmm... You guys both make good points. I think it's entirely possible I overdid it those times (talking LOTS of sets trying to fix form), and you're right, Engineer Guy, about the first time I squatted. I already do straight-legs with leg day, but I think I'll do regular deadlifts first, at a limited weight, for the next couple of back days and see how that goes. Thanks!

"Limitations are for people that have them. Excuses are for people that need them."

Hmmm... You guys both make good points. I think it's entirely possible I overdid it those times (talking LOTS of sets trying to fix form), and you're right, Engineer Guy, about the first time I squatted. I already do straight-legs with leg day, but I think I'll do regular deadlifts first, at a limited weight, for the next couple of back days and see how that goes. Thanks!

If you want to get your form down take a video of your form using a weight close to your 5 rep max. This will help give you constructive criticism for improving your deadlift. There is nothing more alpha male then picking up that barbell from the floor with a weight that's challenging and overcoming that feat.

First off, at their size they're deadlifting really heavy and it would make sense to worry about their waists growing.

Yes, Pro bodybuilders are a group that clearly has "watching their waistline" as a top priority

Originally Posted by JamesPhoenix

I'm lifting for aesthetics and really couldn't care less about strength.

Deadlifts or not, *IF* you are concerned about aesthetics, you need to be concerned with strength. If you don't understand why that is, then you need to get your nose into some books.

I'm far less concerned about your "success" as a guy who doesn't do deadlifts, than I am about your "success" as a guy who doesn't understand progressive overload.

Originally Posted by terman1

There's been lots opinions posted so far but I suspect based on the one-sidedness your initial post that you already made up you mind that you're not going to do them, regardless of what anyone else here has to say.

^^^

This is how I read it too. I figured he was looking for validation of his decision and not guidance on what to do. Nothing wrong with that, to some extent. He wanted to know if he can avoid deads and the answer is yes. This becomes much more dangerous when you look for validation and you get sh!tty feedback or there is no validation for your decision and you carry it out anyway.

"No one could make a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little." -Edmund Burke

"Because your own strength is unequal to the task, do not assume that it is beyond the powers of man; but if anything is within the powers and province of man, believe that it is within your own compass also." -Marcus Aurelius

Tonight...Worth about $0.50 . Got a nice little tingle/shock in the old fantastic discs of mine after one work set and put the bar away. Some days they just aren't worth it for some people, but....

I'll be back at it in a few days again though!! . Honestly, deads have helped me tremendously with my condition. When I get an irritation, I take a break from them for a bit, reset a few lbs and then go at it again. Has helped a lot with my back issues believe it or not and find them very valuable.

Tonight...Worth about $0.50 . Got a nice little tingle/shock in the old fantastic discs of mine after one work set and put the bar away. Some days they just aren't worth it for some people, but....

I'll be back at it in a few days again though!! . Honestly, deads have helped me tremendously with my condition. When I get an irritation, I take a break from them for a bit, reset a few lbs and then go at it again. Has helped a lot with my back issues believe it or not and find them very valuable.

I bulged one disc a few years ago working (probably 7-8 years ago). I was squatting down and went to stand up and heard/felt a pop and was stuck in a squatting position. Was lifted to the doctor and couldn't straighten my leg properly for a few weeks. Then about 2.5 years ago, I was building a picket fence (get this now...Real OCD) and when I lifted the big chop saw, I felt my back go. Couldn't breathe properly. So instead of stopping what I was doing, I threw on a back brace and fought through the pain and did the whole back fence (206 pieces in one day by myself). Chopped all of the pieces, lifted and nailed it all up while my wife cussed me LOL! Next day I could hardly move and knew I had to stain it. OCD at it again, I put on my back brace again, took some pain killers and stained the whole thing. By the end of the day, I was basically on my knees crawling from the pain and the rest is history from there. Had every form of treatment and therapy you could think of including epidurals without much relief. Finally, got rid of the nerve pain last January with the help of a chinese doctor doing a technique called cupping as well as some other forms of treatment to where I could manage and got in a minor car accident that same month and fractured a rib in my back and screwed up my discs again so all of last year up until I started exercising in August, I was doing treatments and was told by 3 doctors that I needed the surgery. Luckily for me, the exercising was a blessing and I've only visited the doctor twice since August past for my back when I was to the doctor a minimum of twice a month for the past 2 years prior so exercising does help for those that don't believe it. Very slow progress, but nonetheless progress. I can now touch my toes (where I couldn't bend past my knees). When I got into bench pressing, I could only bench two 20lb dumbbells and I set a PR of 160 lbs with a barbel on the weekend. Started deadlifts the end of November only able to lift just the bar and now I'm up to 135 lbs for 10 reps and couldn't do one pull up in November and also set another pr there on the weekend with 25lbs weighted for about 8 reps (just to name a few). So I'm just pressing on as my body allows.

Also, to add to my last post, I know what caused the irritation today. Last night my wife had her leg on the dresser putting lotion on them and I crawled underneath her putting her legs on my shoulders and squatted her straight up in the air because she said I couldn't (what she really meant was I shouldn't because of my back). Anyways, squatting is one exercise I advance very slowly in only up to 100 lbs since November (November was when I started all of my big compound lifts) because it puts the most pressure on my discs. Well, my wife weighs 140lbs and I felt a slight irritation this morning, but still decided to try deadlifts. OCD!

XtremeOCD I applaud you sir! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I had quite a chuckle at the story of your wife and lifting her. Man that is what life is all about. Forget OCD and forget herniated discs.

But ya, back to the discs....of course you are progressing, especially with the PR you set on the weekend on bench. Would you say that barbell back squatting puts more pressure on your back than deadlifts from the floor? If so, why? And also, have you ever tried front squatting?

In theory at least, deadlifts don't make much sense for bodybuilders do they?
The idea is to shape your body by individually bringing up bodyparts with specific exercises, not hitting a ton of them all at once.
It does make a lot of sense for those looking to achieve maximum growth and it makes even more sense for people starting out with weight training because almost all underestimate the importance of spending the first years building a good solid base before adding 5 curl exercises so to speak.
I think most people around here use deadlifts as a back builder but, like squats, the idea that your back won't get as big if you train it through other exercises alone has no foundation.
It's an awesome lift so people always tend to exaggerate.
I think most of this is trivial for 95% of the regular gym goers, we're not talking Mr Olympia training and muscularity here so you probably can't go wrong either way.
I still feel the #1 thing deadlifts have going for them is the "functionality" involved, all muscles working together as in everyday life.

XtremeOCD I applaud you sir! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I had quite a chuckle at the story of your wife and lifting her. Man that is what life is all about. Forget OCD and forget herniated discs.

But ya, back to the discs....of course you are progressing, especially with the PR you set on the weekend on bench. Would you say that barbell back squatting puts more pressure on your back than deadlifts from the floor? If so, why? And also, have you ever tried front squatting?

Yea, front squats feel better than back squats, but it's the compression of my spine that irritates the discs. I could physically lift more in a lot of lifts (like the 135 lb deads feel like paper) but I get a tingle beyond there right now in my lower back and right leg. Squats the same thing just less weight irritates it. Anything expanding my spine (almost like when a therapist puts you in traction) feel great. Like hanging from a pull-up bar with weight strapped around my waist feels great! I just started a journal which I put a link to in my signature to log my progress.

In theory at least, deadlifts don't make much sense for bodybuilders do they?
The idea is to shape your body by individually bringing up bodyparts with specific exercises, not hitting a ton of them all at once.

This is wrong already. There's no part of bodybuilding that says you need to work every muscle individually. Most bodybuilders will use plenty of compound exercises.

In theory at least, deadlifts don't make much sense for bodybuilders do they? The idea is to shape your body by individually bringing up bodyparts with specific exercises, not hitting a ton of them all at once.

Lifters starting out would benefit from a sculpting class at their local uni. Sculping students learn that plopping together little blobs of biceps isn't a starting point for:

I think you should do whatever suits you.
There are a heap of people in my gym who are anti deadlift and tried to talk me out of them. They would say "they'll cripple you" or "you don't need them" etc.
Historically I had a weak lower back, but after talking to a friend who had the same issue, he said that dealifts helped him hugely.
To build up a bit of strength in my lower back first, I started doing rack pulls at about 40kgs on the bar. Not a lot I know, but I did have a weak back. I did them for a few months until I could easily lift the weight on the bar for my full set/rep range and then increased gradually by about 20kgs to 60-65 on the bar.
Once I hit that level I dropped back to 40 on the bar and started lifting from the floor.
All I can say is DAMN! I never realised how much "real" deads hit your back, hams and glutes. I was totally exhausted after my sets/reps of deads, but it felt awesome. I haven't had a hint of lower back pain since I started with these lifts.

I'm lifting for aesthetics and really couldn't care less about strength. Just read a BB.com article on Phil Heath and noticed he doesn't include deadlifts in his training schedule - which supports my suspicion that they aren't necessary. What do you fine people think is the value of deadlifting on back day? I should point out I'm not talking about straight-leg deads, those always find a way into my leg days. Thanks for any input!

Deads are over hyped and aren't nessary in bodybuilding. Your lats and traps are "holding the weight" Arent going though are full range of motion and being flexed. For back development as a bodybuilder I would say that bent over rows ate much mor important.