Constant quabbles like this after every other match, always started in the same manner, are more discouraging than any off-the-cuff remarks that are bogged down in the match thread anyway.

Except that people are actually being put off going on the match thread, and possibly MW. I had the thread open yesterday, while watching the match with my daughter, but closed it by the end of the third game as Andy was already accused by some of being too passive, defensive, crap, tedious, abysmal etc. etc.

I really don't get this obsession with the slow starts. Why all the panic?

I thought it was a great match, and that the two men's semi-finals were what this tournament needed. Competitive and entertaining.

Except that people are actually being put off going on the match thread, and possibly MW. I had the thread open yesterday, while watching the match with my daughter, but closed it by the end of the third game as Andy was already accused by some of being too passive, defensive, crap, tedious, abysmal etc. etc.

I really don't get this obsession with the slow starts. Why all the panic?

I thought it was a great match, and that the two men's semi-finals were what this tournament needed. Competitive and entertaining.

"I mean to mean when you've invested so much in Andy, you want him to do the best he can, all the time. You want him to be at his high standards, and make as little mistakes as possible. There's nothing wrong, in my opinion, of being negative when he's not living up to your expectations, because when he does, it's a rewarding feeling, when he goes from playing poor, to playing great espescially. You have the highs and the lows, and at the end of it all, your negative feelings are forgotten. "

At risk of perpetuating this discussion, I've taken this quote from prodigy as I think it puts a finger on what some of us find difficult - ie because we invest so much in Andy we think we have a right to bad mouth him when he doesn't live up to our - perhaps sometimes unrealistic (?) expectations. We need to remember this is about Andy not us. Of course we can all feel the let down, the anger, the disappointment in front of our own tvs or pcs but that doesn't mean we should feel free to vent it so freely to the world. And I'm not arguing for a policy of no criticism because of course that would make the website bland, boring and it would mean that our praise became less meaningful. It's more a matter of how that criticism is couched, as others have argued.I hope this doesn't sound like getting on a high horse but remember that sometimes when we turn to MW for solace when he's not doing well, it can feel that much worse if there is no attempt at understanding for or sympathy with him . Now perhaps I'm contradicting myself when I said this isn't about us because yes to some extent it is - we form a community. And by and large it's a supportive community. I would hate it if members like Iris felt driven out by the negativity or lurkers never actually join because of it. It's all about balance isn't it and sometimes it just feels like it gets out of balance.

No high horse, just an opinion of how I see things now. Some comments are OTT at times I feel. Tell me how calling someone a Scottish b******d during a match was helpful?

Where was that? I don't recall it. As I said, personal attacks are over the top and totally uncalled for. Negative comments about a bad shot or double faulting the set away borne from frustration are justifiable.

Where was that? I don't recall it. As I said, personal attacks are over the top and totally uncalled for. Negative comments about a bad shot or double faulting the set away borne from frustration are justifiable.

Where was that? I don't recall it. As I said, personal attacks are over the top and totally uncalled for. Negative comments about a bad shot or double faulting the set away borne from frustration are justifiable.

I didn't see that, but remember it being discussed.

Difficult to know where you are drawing the line though, since we're basically talking about one player. Looking back at the comments at DF at set point yesterday, isn't "unforgivable collapse" personal? As far as I'm concerned, Andy is trying his tits off to win just about every match, but the expectation of perfection at every point from some is unrealistic, and a bit more understanding of the pressure would be welcome.

Personally, I find Andy's blips, and even losses, easier to cope with than some people's coping mechanisms. So I mostly keep away now, as it seems, do others.

I have only once read back through a match thread, and vowed I would never do so again. I'm sure if more people went back and looked at their comments in the cold light of day then there would be a lot less negativity and fewer insulting remarks.

I never go on match threads either. Some people seem to take Andy's poor play way too personally and out it spews on the match thread. I don't read them through now either, just the last couple of pages to add a comment. Sometimes the hyperbole is plain insane. I wonder if people ever watch other players because if they did they'd see plenty of double faults, shanking, passivity etc etcConstructive criticism is fine but frequently it is just destructive and completely negative, which is disheartening. The improvement in Andy mentally is astonishing as is his transition game which is coming on leaps and bounds. Off course he will have "off" matches, or even "off" periods within matches and of course this is tremendously frustrating for us fans who want him to win everything, but hey this is Andy Murray and it's our privilege to be his fans, not the other way round.

It's the sense of entitlement that Andy should never make mistakes for their sake, not his own, that winds me up.

I'm sure we're all guilty of shouting "over the net" or "inside the lines please Andy" and other highly insightful advice at the tv, but it's a bit presumptive to think everyone else needs to read it. No-one thinks a double-fault is good, so while it's reasonable to think it's bad, who does it help to labour this point?