RE: I DARE ya... DOUBLE dog dare ya... TRIPLE DOG DARE YA!!!

Hmm... the log-in captcha just now was 'psyo'. Should I read anything into this?

Anyway, I didn't get nearly as much time to practice this week as I normally do. But when I did, I played everything with upstrokes. Result? Surprisingly big improvement. I think a week ago I was scraping 64bpm. Here it is at 76bpm:

Bad news is my alternate picking sucks. I used to be able to hit 140-150 (even 160 once!) with 4s, but here with 8s I can't even do 64. I guess that's what happens if you don't keep the practice up.

RE: I DARE ya... DOUBLE dog dare ya... TRIPLE DOG DARE YA!!!

I think the most interesting thing is, with this purely mechanical exercise, the majority of us are in the same ballpark metronome-wise. 80's-90's. Give or take a few bpm. Sure, the guys who are new to the method or haven't been playing as long are naturally going to be slower, but everyone else is in roughly the same bpm territory.

I saw a 5bpm increase in upstrokes and a 2bpm increase in downstrokes with a total of roughly 6hrs devoted to this during the course of 6 days.

Interesting data. I'm sure this will be interesting to Pebber.

Good work gentleman! There are a lot of guitarists who cannot do this at all and definitely not at 16notes in the 80-100bpm range with accuracy so, good job all around. Really fun stuff

RE: I DARE ya... DOUBLE dog dare ya... TRIPLE DOG DARE YA!!!

I too only put in about 5-10 hours on this during the week. I didn't post a progress report because I unfortunately did not make any progress in speed. With isolated ups & downs, I'm still at about 92 bpm.

Actually, I've been putting hundreds of hours into the syllabus so if a given week's challenge is something I do all the time I highly doubt I'll see any noticeable improvement in just a single week's time. I mean even the day-to-day variation in my top speeds could amount to 2-5 bpm. I wouldn't want to confuse extra speed one day as progress when really it could be to an extra cup of caffeine, or whatever.

Anyway, I spent several hours yesterday just playing through my catalog and I consciously tried to play isolated downs/ups in several passages (e.g. rhythm figures). I noticed that the shorter the passage the faster I can take it, and in a few instances I was in the 100-110 bpm range. This suggests to me that if I really wanted to get faster, I could dump dozens of hours into it and then probably could.

But, I did play around a little with that Metallica riff to see if I could achieve the same type of sound using only alternate picking. Slowing to about 90 bpm, I recorded it direct (to prevent the sound of the picking attack from being captured) using only downstrokes and trying to be powerful with my attack. Real aggressive in the manner I perceive JH to be playing it. Then I tried to play it the exact same way using alternate picking without increasing the speed. (Is downs on the E-string and ups on the A-string what JH is actually doing? Or is it truly all downs? I couldn't tell from that video.)

I noticed that while I could get the two close enough for my family to not tell a difference, I still could hear differences here and there. So THAT is what I would want to work on with an exercise like this rather than speed.

RE: I DARE ya... DOUBLE dog dare ya... TRIPLE DOG DARE YA!!!

Ursin, for which part of BATM are you looking for a quality transcription? Are you saying the ones you found are wrong because the notes were transcribed wrong from the original, or just that no actual player would use the fingerings suggested in the transcription?

I have a version for guitar pro 5/6, and then another version from the book "Guitar Tab White Pages, Volume 3." They are close to each other, but I prefer the book over the file. I always thought the fingerings for the last 8 bars of the solo were a bit off, but I never spent the time to hunt for an alternate fingering.

I guess I never slowly compared either transcription to the original track to check their accuracy. Maybe both are "wrong."

RE: I DARE ya... DOUBLE dog dare ya... TRIPLE DOG DARE YA!!!

My down strokes have gone from comfortable 100bpm to 112bpmmy upstrokes have gone from 80bpm to around 100bpmalternate from 200bpm to around 220bpm

unfortunately i wont be able to upload video as my camera died (got Killed)will try on my phone not sure of the quality thoughcan i also suggest these challenges be over 2 weeks. so every has more time to get a real good go at it.I'm gonna stick to it for another week. at least

RE: I DARE ya... DOUBLE dog dare ya... TRIPLE DOG DARE YA!!!

Ooooh, how about every 2 weeks we have a new picking hand challenge AND a new fretting hand challenge, but we offset one by a week so that we still get something new every 7 days? Weekends are great for the non-professionals in the crowd... So next weekend someone would pose a fretting hand challenge.

Oh, and I second Cliff & Scott's opinion. Unless Nick contributes, I'm going to stop proofreading my posts to change left hand to fretting hand and right hand to picking hand so that he feels included. Isn't he our only lefty?

RE: I DARE ya... DOUBLE dog dare ya... TRIPLE DOG DARE YA!!!

hahahah Delta; stick with the concept of the challenge as long as you like, (Hell, it's part of the syllabus, right? That means we're supposedto practice it anyways!) but here's the deal; this challenge wasn't about mastery, but rather measuring improvement over time. A one week timeframe gives you a tight deadline, and forces you to get it done, even though you finish off with that "it could have been better..." feeling. Did you notice that everyone improved, oh maybe about 10 bpm or so give or take? There you go... it tells you roughly how much you can stand to improve, per week, on one aspect of PB's picking syllabus. An average assuming that you are doing everything correctly. The other cool thing is that people seemed to really come to life on this forum. Everyone except for the one guy who needed to do this the most, that is... So yeah, this gives us a very measurable rate of improvement. (3 years at 10-12 hours a day? hmmmn a certain someone should have this stuff mastered...) hahahahaha

I personally, made out like a bandit with useful information here, plus I stumbled across a method that I'm going to try for a bit. The observations I made watching you guys play will probably stick with me for the rest of my musical life, so thank you so much. Speed was not the only 'gain' here. Everyone who participated made massive leaps forward in control, and articulation. I know I did, and I don't even pick the 'right way'. Learning what isn't working is just as important, so you can stop beating your head up against the wall.

Cliff; Awesome job, man. Big improvement that cannot be measured by BPM. String crossing (Should we call it string hopping instead?) seems to be an area of concern for many of us. That Spalt makes me drool every time I see it. Well done, buddy.

Ursin; Clean and fast. hahaha looks like you were expecting more out of your tempos, 120BPM as isolated strokes would be DISGUSTINGLY fast hahaha. I love your clean, relaxed attack. Tight rhythmically focused playing. The "string hop" is noticeable on your footage too; Do you feel any difference, or "extra" work that is necessary when 'vaulting' to the next string? Just curious.

Diego; Killer. Love that Jackson. Fast as lightning, man! What kind of picks do you use, and do you always play with your pick hand that far from the bridge? Just curious...

Damon; Speed is not the only thing. Music is about so many other things, and speed is just one tool we have in our creative toolbox. I love watching you play, you have attained a level of relaxed speed and control that is actually pretty rare.

Exercises like this where you don't see a huge leap in tempo increase should get you wondering to yourself about what else you have improved upon, or perhaps even what else you have set yourself up to improve upon in the future... You know, laying foundations and all. So yeah, this was a fun week to check out what everyone was up to, and thanks so much for anyone who participated.

RE: I DARE ya... DOUBLE dog dare ya... TRIPLE DOG DARE YA!!!

Damon; I will respond to any, and ALL challenges posted here. lol keeps me alive! Sounds like a great idea, man. So yep, challenge all you like, I will try 'em all to the best of my ability as time permits.

Again, I LOVED the response, and seeing how everyone attacked this particular exercise was very, very enlightening. Thanks again, dudes!

RE: I DARE ya... DOUBLE dog dare ya... TRIPLE DOG DARE YA!!!

Lots of info here. I had a lot of thoughts as I was watching everyone's videos and reading the post game analysis.

First, I think this is a great idea all around as I said in my video. We would do things like this from time to time via email with Pebber back in the days before the forum and the 500+ Youtube videos. Also very fun was soloing over backing tracks. Pebber would always destroy us on that stuff! I'd like to see that in the future. A "Solo over this backing track" challenge.

Scott: Yeah man I would love to be able to do these strokes @ 120bpm! I can do these strokes at 120 just can't hang onto it as long as your transcribed pattern. I thought the idea was to play the exact pattern you had written out. Maybe I was taking it too literally. As far as the "pick bouncing" goes, yes I find at higher bpm I do have to sometimes, not all the time, make a conscious effort to focus on changing strings. I'm not necessarily sure where this pick bouncing comes from and, as you point out, most of us are doing that at the higher tempo. I think it's just a by-product of trying to move the wrist/pick very fast on 1 string with one motion (ONLY down or ONLY up) over the course of 16 notes. I think in your new challenge (with the pentatonic scale) I don't think you'll see that bouncing motion because everyone will be doing alternate picking. So, I think it's just trying to haul ass on one string with only downstrokes. Just my guess though.

Thanks for the kind comments on my video.

I have seen Damon's progress from the beginning of his time on the forums until now. Very cool to see. You have made tremendous strides dude!!! Keep it up. You are on the right track. Sometimes we question that track and sometimes we question if we are getting better. Need another pair of eyes to see for us. You have definitely gotten better and I see it for sure. Keep pushing it!

Diego has always been a PBguitarstudios rising star! I love the tight focused sound. CLEAN...that's what I like!!!! Keep going man!!!!

Cliff, I know with the job and the family you don't have as much time to practice but you are definitely improving! It may be slow going but it's there! Don't give this exercise up! When you are playing the Paul Gilbert/Michael Angelo/Troy Stetina type 3 note per string things, zeroing in on that upstroke like a LASER and getting that upstroke clean and smooth is the KEY to playing those fast!!!!!!

Damon as far as Bark At The Moon goes, yes, that outro solo, I do not know if I can find a legit fingering. Maybe I need to make up my own. I have the right notes but I'm not sure it's the way Jake E Lee is playing it. Maybe no one knows for sure! I have a "Best of Ozzy" issue of Guitar World where it is transcribed. I guess that's the best it can get for now. I've watched live videos of all the Ozzy guitarists doing it live and they all seem to be doing it differently than Jake E.

Bark At The Moon outro solo challenge!

And yes, Hetfield plays the Master of Puppets riff with all downstrokes. A lot of that stuff he does with ONLY downstrokes. Check out live versions of "Blackened" from And Justice For All for more downstroke insanity.

RE: I DARE ya... DOUBLE dog dare ya... TRIPLE DOG DARE YA!!!

Oh yes, this is good learning. Watching you guys do your thing, and all on one basic aspect (A very technically demanding aspect) has been so enlightening, especially because I could compare my own success/failure/discoveries on those topics to yours. Then back to the woodshed. Options. Tons of options.

Yeah, I try to play it as I transcribed, and for video purposes I might only play a chunk of it, to keep stuff short or make a point. (In my finished video, I only played a part of the riff using 'my' technique) I think people can tell if it's out to lunch/off topic/wrong hahahaha No matter what, it's all food for thought. Thanks again for everyone participating!

RE: I DARE ya... DOUBLE dog dare ya... TRIPLE DOG DARE YA!!!

I dare scott tulis to become find discontent in his own playing, and to start chasing after what is impossible. Or rather, I mean discontent sufficient to motivate himeself to to push himself until he has the willpower to make that which is impossible that which possible. At the rate these challanges are going I think it will be many moons before we start getting anywhere near the types of playing materials that are impossible for him (or for that matter any of the ussers on here)

RE: I DARE ya... DOUBLE dog dare ya... TRIPLE DOG DARE YA!!!

Scott; thank you. I use JazzIII XL picks. I used to use Clayton 1.00 mm in the past inspired from Tom Hess I should say. Then I changed to Eric Johnson Jazz picks, now Jazz III Xl. I like the grip on Eric Johnson's pick a lot but I like the pointed tip of Jazz III XL pics. It allows me to make smaller pick motion while playing on higher speeds.

I used to play very close to the bridge in the past. Hours of practice made my picking arm and shoulder blade hurt a lot. I feel more comfortable picking further from the bridge. I can practice for hours without any pain. I play close to the bridge while palm muting.

Ursin and Cliff: Thank you much. I am glad that I found Pebber and happy to become a part of PBguitarstudios.

Nick: STFU dude!! You have no idea what you are talking about.

Zitat At the rate these challanges are going I think it will be many moons before we start getting anywhere near the types of playing materials that are impossible for him (or for that matter any of the ussers on here)

Are you kidding me? you think you're better than Scott or Ursin or Damon? I know that you have a good music theory knowledge but you suck at playing dude.... I am not saying I am better than you. I know that I suck too.

RE: I DARE ya... DOUBLE dog dare ya... TRIPLE DOG DARE YA!!!

Yeah, I haven't considered using the stretched position used at the 3:47 mark. If this is the version you're after, what's the rationale for why one would want to finger it that way? Notice in the second run he squeaks a note at about 3:53. Maybe that was intentional, but I kind of doubt it.

RE: I DARE ya... DOUBLE dog dare ya... TRIPLE DOG DARE YA!!!

I played it through that way a couple times now. To me it looks like he just wanted to avoid skipping the G string in the lick, so instead of staying in the 12th & 13th positions he does a big stretch so he can stay on adjacent (G & B) strings. Assuming he had the tech for either, I don't get why he would want to do that (especially live).

I looked up that magazine and that version is the same as the one in my book. The one I have in guitar pro has the whole outro lick in positions 12 & 13, but the string skipping structure is retained. Both of these are comfortable for me. I thought you were going to ask about the end of the solo and not the outro. I can't play the end of the solo very well but I never really devoted any time to it.

RE: I DARE ya... DOUBLE dog dare ya... TRIPLE DOG DARE YA!!!

Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and maybe TRY this challenge? Oh, that's right, it's because even using only UPSTROKES, the slowest player who had the balls to post on this thread is easily twice the player you are, and improved immensely after a week's work on some basic, yet technically very difficult aspects of playing guitar.So you think that the basics won't teach you anything, eh? So you think that a visitation of the beginning of Pebber's picking Syllabus is a waste of time, eh? This coming from a guy who has spent 3 years on gaining 'what', exactly?

Listen to my ROUGH, old, and yet COMPLETE version of Caprice 16, then go think about your own version of what may or may not be possible. Yeah, I know it sucks. Why don't YOU post a clip of yourself playing it? Oh, by the way, maybe have a stroke first and then that way we can level the playing field. I don't want you to have too easy of a time with it...

What you have done, is come into this thread and posted some kind of quasi-philosophical nonsense which belittled the progress the guys who actually participated have made. Guys including, me (Although I'm no one...) Ursin, Damon, Diego, Cliff, Ashan, Matgeorge, a few other guys and hey, even Pebber himself. Wow.

RE: I DARE ya... DOUBLE dog dare ya... TRIPLE DOG DARE YA!!!

I think we've all learned a lot here this week. Scott - thanks so much for the inspiration and getting so many of us involved.

Nick - your post is somewhat incoherent. I'm not sure I understand what you mean. These challenges aren't about trying to do something impossible. They seem - to me, at least - to be about doing something perfectly possible, at each individual's particular level. And then measuring progress over time. There's no competition. I'm one of the slower players on here. Big deal. Doesn't bother me at all. I'm still very happy to participate.

Instead of posting semi-coherent ramblings, why not take the trouble to try one of the challenges. I'm pretty sure you'll gain an awful lot of respect on here by doing so, no matter what speed you're at.