TF2Maps.net Major Contest #9 - Mann vs Machine - Voting

The 9th Major TF2Maps.net Contest, Mann vs. Machine, has finally come to its final stage - voting! All maps are uploaded, the servers are ready, the crowd is going wild (the chat is literally making monkey noises at the moment), so here you go: public voting for the MvM contest is now open! You have until the 1st of April to play and submit your votes in this thread. The contest voting website has a list of servers that will be running our maps as often as possible, so grab five friends (or Internet friends aka strangers) and kill some robots! Or get killed by robots if you're that bad.

The rules

You must judge every map in order for your post to be included in the final tally (authors of entered maps are excluded from this, of course).

You must post all of your grades in one post in this thread. Irrelevant posts will be deleted - please use the main contest thread for general discussion and "TF2M is the greatest" posts.

You must grade each map on a 10-point scale and follow the judging criteria outlined in the rules of the contest.

You must judge each map in comparison to the other entries, not to finalized, in-game maps. In other words, at least one map will receive a 10 in at least one category; the other maps will then be compared against that map in those categories.

Use this table to grade, just delete the space in the final table tag:

Maps

G & B

Waves

Aesthetics

Technical

Atomgrad

-

-

-

-

Destruct

-

-

-

-

Isolation

-

-

-

-

Maelstrom

-

-

-

-

Sludge

-

-

-

-

Plateau

-

-

-

-

Ventus

-

-

-

-

[/ table]

VOTE FOR EVERY MAP, INCLUDING MAELSTROM (the reason I didn't vote for it is because it is MY MAP)

Reviews are here...!

ATOMGRAD

Gameplay and Balance:2

I really was not a fan of this layout. The entire map seems overscaled, especially the first and last areas. There are not very many sentry positions in the beginning areas of the map, and the middle building is especially hard to hold, normally forcing everyone to fall back to the hatch. The hatch area isn't fun to hold either, as defense is normally on the low ground with robots falling down from above; and if there are snipers in the wave you can count to get your head lopped off if you stick it above the radar dish thing.

Waves:2

General consensus: the waves are too hard, long, and tedious. I'd rather it be quick and difficult than long-winded and constantly pouring in. The support was in great numbers and the intense (5+ minute each) length of the wave really punished teams that lost one. I can't even count how many times people have quit over losing one of the long, tedious later waves.

Aesthetics:4

Kind of obvious as the map is still in alpha. The textures aren't complete and there are many boring walls and messy displacements. I commend you for detailing a map so fast, though.

Technical:2

Framerate was okay but the rocket area tended to render from all areas of the map. Clipping, especially on the stairs leading into the warehouse from the rocket area, was generally poor. I got stuck on many props, especially in that area. EDIT: Potentially game-breaking map exploit was found causing people to leave the map. Score lowered because of that.

DESTRUCT

Gameplay and Balance:6

The map was okay. Overall, it played decently and was relatively fun. The main problem I had with the map, though, was its constant choke and its single route for bots to take. I would recommend opening up the map a bit and adding more routes for the bots to take, while subsequently shortening the length and eliminating some of the chokes.

Waves:7

The waves were good, generally. I thought they were much too easy, though, and every time I had tested the map we were able to blaze through it without failing once. The layout of the map might have contributed to this, but additionally I would recommend adding support to make the waves a bit harder.

Aesthetics:7

These were decent, but I didn't like the uncanny likeness to Dustbowl. In general a lot of the buildings looked nearly exactly like the ones in Dustbowl and I would think that you should change things up to make it look more unique.

Technical:4

The technical side was something that could have contributed to the easiness of the maps. Some of the roofs were accessible to soldiers, demomen and engies (remember the wrangler!) and the majority of the time, if an engie was able to get up there and set up his base it was impossible to destroy. Clip them, or better yet, nobuild them or add some form of stairs to make sentry busters able to reach them.

ISOLATION

Gameplay and Balance:7

Generally, Isolation played pretty well. I'm not a big fan of the maps' size, however, and it seems that the initial area has little cover and is normally not held for too long. The final area seemed too long and too easy to defend, as there are a couple really good sentry positions that can cover the entire area.

Waves:10

Waves were pretty easy, altogether, but not too easy. Everything came at the right time and I believe that this map is one of the best out of the contest wave-wise. I actually had fun on this map, believe it or not. It was the only map (that I'm judging) that didn't bore me with repetitive waves or long, droning patterns.

Aesthetics:9

Very nice. I like the sunset snow theme you have here, and it's very well executed at that. The buildings are kind of same-y, though, and not too impressive. The buildings aren't what I remembered from the map because they're just the same texture again and again. Very good overall, though.

Technical:8

Good technical work, good nobuilding, and decent clipping. I had good framerates all around and save for areas where the clipping was off, not entirely sure where they are though.

SLUDGE

Gameplay and Balance:7

Here's the thing: overall, the gameplay was good in some areas and bad in others. The beginning area was well executed, and the end area was decent- but the areas in between I did not like. The buildings were hard to get up to and had quite the height advantage (for the defenders and the robots) and the little side area seems completely useless and inconvenient to get out of if you're stuck.

Waves:5

The waves were decent, but not very good in my opinion. The enormous amount of high-health support heavies made the waves boring, in general, and they were always a pain to kill and maneuver around. The pacing was generally slow and seemed to get easier towards the end (due to the enormous amount of cash drops); where in other maps it tended to be the opposite.

Aesthetics:10

I don't know about anyone else but (for now) I like Sludge's aesthetics the best. It fits the TF2 narrative great, as nobody would suspect a base set up in an abandoned swamp and the robots have a reason to invade it. There's explanation for why the teams are there and the buildings look nice. I love the environment you've made, it's massively immersive and if it weren't for all the other errors it could have been my favourite map.

Technical:2

Ugh. Please figure out where all the FPS drops and rampart shadows are coming from, because they are downright ruining your map. The framerate is horrible constantly and the shadows that flail everywhere is NOT a normal occurrence, no matter what you say. Fix this even if all else is kept the same.

PLATEAU

Gameplay and Balance:5

Not too much of a fan of this map. The waves, once past the initial choke, were near impossible to hold off in the intermediary area, forcing players to fall back to the hatch. Not too much I can say other than the bots tended to have a huge height advantage coming into the hatch area.

Waves:5

Waves were okay, not too much to say about them. Nothing stood out to me as unique and they felt long and tedious. The last version I played on, the engi bots glitched out and made all the robots stuck, so I can't grade too much on that.

Aesthetics:3

This feels like a textured alpha. None of the displacement cliffs are displaced in a aesthetically pleasing way, and the buildings were just wood blocks. A lot of the trim wood texturing was misaligned, and it overall looks much to close to Decoy. I liked Mannology better, personally, you had a much more unique and foreboding theme going on there.

Technical:8

Most everything works as intended, save for a few areas not clipped correctly and the engi bot teleporting other bots into walls.

VENTUS

Gameplay and Balance:4

The gameplay here is less than decent, to me. A lot of areas are useless and don't provide anything except for an engy bot to worthlessly camp out in. The beginning area is much to big and the entire map has little cover. This means that the sightlines are much too long - there is even a sentry spot by the hatch that can see all the way over to the bot spawn (which can be same for the snipers that spawn at the other side!).

Waves:6

I'm not a fan of the waves presented here. Some of them are ridiculously easy, others arse-crunchingly hard. If it weren't for all the borked routes our teams would have most likely constantly lost on the later waves. One route, if it weren't for the broken docks, is extremely short and open compared to the others and would have made us constantly lose.

Aesthetics:8

The aesthetics are good, although I have said this multiple times about this theme - it doesn't entirely fit into the narrative of TF2. Why the teams would be camping out in an old seaside town doesn't make much sense to me, and there doesn't seem to be any evidence of spytech or underground operations in this map. While it looks nice, I'd suggest to make this scene a little more convincing for the narrative of TF2.

Technical:5

Clip those rafts. I cannot tell you how many times the bots got stuck there. This is a major problem and makes the map much, much to easy to beat. Additionally, there is issues with sightlines and cover that I have addressed earlier. And also, please find a nicer way to restrict access to the out-of-bounds areas in the water. I and many people don't like to adventure into these areas and just get killed. Please clip these off or do something that doesn't involve killing players.

EDIT: Raising score for technical because apparently some of these issues were fixed, however I have not got around to playing the updated version yet so I'm just assuming they were.

Note: I haven't played most of the maps a lot (heck, I haven't even played them all), so my opinion and scores may change. Scores might also be balanced at the end to work with the whole idea of judging them against each other.

Maps

G & B

Waves

Aesthetics

Technical

Atomgrad

-

-

-

-

Destruct

-

-

-

-

Isolation

8

-

8

-

Maelstrom

-

-

-

-

Sludge

5

7

4

4

Plateau

5

-

3

-

Ventus

9

5

10

5

Atomgrad
Not played yet.

Destruct
Not played yet.

Isolation
The layout works fairly well - it's especially fun to play in the beginning. I feel it's a bit too difficult to defend near the bomb site, though, as there's no great defense position until you get to the final point. I know there's another one just where the choke ends, but it's not very effective against the 'through the building' route. Speaking of which, that route feels a bit cramped to me. I need to play this more to assess the waves properly. Visually, the map is good. It looks a bit bland and underwhelming in places, but overall you have used the snow theme well. I particularly like that the robots' path is represented by an actual path in the snow. I need to play more to comment on the technical parts.

Maelstrom
Not played yet.

Sludge
I find the gameplay of Sludge to be a bit lacking. The robots' spawn area is pretty easy to defend with a sentry or a heavy, as the most powerful position is almost invincible because the robots very rarely go up there. The final area though, being at quite a height disadvantage, is pretty annoying to defend. Everything inbetween is a bit of a mess because the buidlings aren't very well connected, so it's hard to get where you want. The waves are all right, though the initial amount of melee heavies only serves to make the first waves way too easy. As for the visuals, I've got to be honest and say it doesn't look very good. I can see what you're going for, you're on your way ot making the swamp theme work, but it doesn't work that well when the center of your detailing is random wood buildings littered around. The palette, though, is what ruins it for me - like most swamp maps, it's just dreary and brown. As for the technical side, well, I think the fact that the map is graphically spazzing out at most times is quite a big negative mark on its score.

Plateau
Plateau's gameplay always felt a little wrong to me. The start is fairly fine, but once the bots as much as get into the chokepoint, it's so easy to completely lose the bomb and, subsequently, the wave. I think it has to do with the fact that the defenders have to run quite a way from the natural defense spots to the other side of the roof, which does not gel well with the fact that the robots seem to have a lot of scouts. The scale of the map (being too large) probably contributes to this. There are about 0 attractive defense points after the choke where the bots can't quickly pass by before you get to do a lot of damage. I need to play more to comment on the waves. The look of the map is very basic. Honestly, it seems to be taking a lot from coaltown but not doing much with it, resulting in a really empty and uninteresting look. Need to play more to comment on the technical.

Ventus
A fun map thanks to its refreshingly non-straight layout. When disregarding waves, its gameplay works very well. The sentry position closest to the robot spawn might be a bit too powerful, but the natural flow of defense feels good, and I very much enjoy the variation in routes. The waves themselves aren't particularly good, in my opinion - there's an overabundance of support bots (heavies get way too many medics and the snipers have super powerful sightlines, not to mention they can stand in the water), and the tiny scouts are just no fun. Ventus is in my opinion the winner in terms of aesthetics - the beach theme is executed really well. I wish the robot vehicle thing had a more obvious presence, though, but it's no big deal. On the technical side, I have to give you a low mark due to the really bugged route by the pier, which is capable of ruining entire waves. I also found a quite strange out-of-bounds area nearby.

for anyone trying to figure out why only one map has a Rating don't ask.

Maps

Gameplay + Balance

Waves

Aesthetics

Technical

Atomgrad

-

-

-

-

Destruct

-

-

-

-

Isolation

1

3

-

2

Maelstrom

-

-

-

-

-

Sludge

-

-

-

-

Plateau

-

-

-

-

Ventus

-

-

-

-

Isolation: A hard map to play, Balance is almost non-existent in the ways of the classes, Waves have difficulty to battle, Technical is rated low because i was kicked off the server that came with a Ban because 5 other people voted to ban me and it's why it's rated low, Aesthetics are unrated because of the kick-ban, will update the votes when i have the chance.

for anyone trying to figure out why only one map has a Rating don't ask.

Maps

Gameplay + Balance

Waves

Aesthetics

Technical

Atomgrad

-

-

-

-

Destruct

-

-

-

-

Isolation

1

3

-

2

Maelstrom

-

-

-

-

-

Sludge

-

-

-

-

Plateau

-

-

-

-

Ventus

-

-

-

-

Isolation: A hard map to play, Balance is almost non-existent in the ways of the classes, Waves have difficulty to battle, Technical is rated low because i was kicked off the server that came with a Ban because 5 other people voted to ban me and it's why it's rated low, Aesthetics are unrated because of the kick-ban, will update the votes when i have the chance.

Click to expand...

Please read the guidelines for voting in the categories, the 'Technical' score is not to be used in that way. Rather, it should be scoring the clipping, optimization and overall performance of the maps. Do not give grades based upon the people in servers. If you need to grade Aesthetics please load the map in a local server and run around. And please, before you give such poor grades, play on the other contest maps and *compare* to the other maps, rather than to other experiences you may have encountered.

Builder, Be more fair and keep personal grudges out of your opinion. It makes you look unprofessional and an asshole.

Maps

Gameplay + Balance

Waves

Aesthetics

Technical

Atomgrad

2

2

7

6

Destruct

-

-

7

-

Isolation

-

-

9

-

Maelstrom

-

-

8

-

Sludge

0

4

10

0

Plateau

-

-

5

-

Ventus

5

6

10

7

Haven't had Time to download and check these out. Only giving Aesthetics from the screenshots.

Atomgrad: For an Alpha, It looked pretty good. I liked the look and feel of it, despite it got confusing at times. Dark and snowy and has a nice theme to it. Still, The waves were long and tedious, Map was confusing and the Spawn had no protection. The map felt kinda short to put Engineers in and I only saw one engineer position that could barely work. The beginning is great and how the robots came in was creative, the open space is perfect for Scouts to run around and collect money. But the map is still kinda confusing and needs more Engie locations.

Destruct: Still would have to find out in game, but Destruct looks decent. One thing I should point is that this theme is not my favorite, Not letting it be the judge of a point but we have 3 MvM maps with it and I would love to see the other themes used. I was kinda sad they didn't make a map from the MvM announcement. But, Your score might improve once I get in.

Isolation: This looks beautiful. The main path being muddy can help with those that are new and adds to the appeal that something uses the routes besides Mercs and Mad Machines. The images you made are inviting and I would to pocket a Heavy in that sunset. I really look forward to examining this map.

Maelstrom: Again, This is beautiful. The only point I am taking off is that I am not a fan of your roofs. They just look odd, Just REALLY odd with all those mismatched whitish planks. Other then that, The alpine scenery is great, the Concrete buildings are awesome, The layout is looks creative and it is beautiful. Hoping this will be like a nice peaceful map to kill robots in.

Sludge: This map was absolutely beautiful for a swamp map and I really wanted to play it and try it out in a Single Player match (I like doing it that way, I just can't find custom MvM servers and I only play LAN with friends sometimes). The music at the upgrade station was good, the layout was interesting and I could not wait to hit 'f4'.

The wave came and I was ready, Playing Demo I got some shots in and blew them away. And then my Computer crashed.
Your map made me crash. I play on a 6 year old Dell which served me well but I sadly cannot play this map and I got your reason. Too much Detail! Your props take up space that is to be used for all those robots and spammy projectiles. You need to make it more simple which would hurt your Aesthetics score. So unless I get a top end PC soon, You are sadly not getting that many good marks from me

Plateau: I honestly liked this back when it was 'Mannology' and sad to say is that this is probably my least appealing map on the list. An Open desert with scattered buildings in a square gorge which leads to a pipe that pumps out money is not appealing to me. Maybe my opinion will change, but that is how it is. Not much background on the other maps, But hopefully I can figure it out.

Ventus: This map looks beautiful, Like a sunset romantic evening... Against Hoards of robots. While I did not get to a part with a Tank, I thought that Map was still good. The engineer still seemed useless, But I did feel like I was still being overwhelmed by not taking him out. The theme of the map is good, But an Out of Place factory would have helped. Also, I feel like a large portion of the map is unnecessary as the Bomb location is not on the opposite corner of the map, but is actually quite close. I saw the robots using the same path each time to deliver the bomb while the others decided to run around that extra space. But still, I enjoyed playing the map by myself. Just modify the waves and find a way to cut out the short routes and make it equal.

The only reason why they are there in my post is because I *made* the map, therefore I cannot vote for myself.
I hope no one else was confused by this. Please go about voting normally for all the maps, including Maelstrom.

(ill keep updating as i play more and i have tried to get on the other servers are running valve maps would like to try the others but ill keep updating as i go)

Atomgrad- Kinda huge did not like that too much but would be useful with more than 6. The placement of the shops are interesting. Very glitchy people were able to hide in the mountain and under the hole. In latter levels with movement speed would seem more possible but the shear size is intimidating and spreads your team way too thin. Aesthetics were hauntingly beautiful. A creeping hopelessness came from its walls. I can see potential in this thing. The lag is horrid with the spies pings of the entire team were 400-600+. Also when I had my canteen equipped there was an error telling me to equip it and the store wouldn't respond to it. A quick death fixed it right up. Apart from that I give it a 8/10

Destruction- Feels used before but like a classic friend you havent seen in a while. Very nice amounts of hidy holes seems spy friendly. Plenty of sentry areas too which is a plus. Very nice use of areas were you can be overwhelmed easily and only have to jump up to a ledge to escape. They also seem to be a great way to use in opposite to get the drop on the bots. The broken bridge at the beginning is a very nice touch aswell. Seems a little too confusing in the size and scope of it. I got lost easily every now and then.

Isolation- LOVE the aesthetics very alone against the wilderness and machines. Reset points are excellently placed. A fair size for a map like this. The cold brings me back to that MVM announcement video.

Maelstrom- Very nice change of pace. A statement about how Gray will destroy anything even nature to get what he wants. The bridges are a nice touch and the lovely river. Plenty of reset points and seems like an all around great place to play on the big side but not too big.

Sludge- Very gritty and grimmy looking perfect for intense battles with mind scarring side effects XD. Been having texture errors with the glass and water. Very nice use of under and overpasses to test your skills. I LOVE the use of the music. The bear Heavies are excellent. The Canteen error I experienced in Atomgrad was present here as well and same fix had to be applied.

Plateau- Feels like a Decoy back up certainly want to play on this one though.

Ventus- Looks really well done but a little out of place. Its fun to look at and run around in.

There seems to be an error there seems to be no way to play these levels when I go to vote change map its all the Valve levels.

A looooot of these maps have a ton of technical problems, its almost like people don't know there's places to get maps tested easily, I was almost brought to tears by the complete lack of testing most of these seemed to undergo.

Maps

Gameplay + Balance

Waves

Aesthetics

Technical

Atomgrad

2

2

3

2

Destruct

6

4

7

4

Isolation

10

6

5

4

Maelstrom

8

7

6

9

Sludge

3

4

8

4

Plateau

6

8

1

8

Ventus

4

6

10

4

Many of these comments are collected from testers, but they reflect my opinions. Numbers above are mine.

mvm_isolation_b2: Fun map, seems like it has a good amount of little arenas to fight in. Suffers from broken pathing which seems to be a curse in a lot of these entries. I can't think of a whole lot I don't like about this other than the cash seems a little generous (thank you, helps when testing), and the tanks seem a little weak. It features giant quick-fix medics which are absolutely amazingly frustrating. These guys are more worrisome than the tanks.

mvm_ventus_b6: Looks real pretty - I absolutely love the beachfront style of the map. Unfortunately this is the only good thing I can say about the map as it is functionally broken. Bots didn't care to follow the signs laid out, and because of that they took the shortest route possible (at least on wave 1 and 2, couldnt' get further). The waves need to be toned out in difficulty, because the shortest route possible is only 4 turns away from the bot's spawnpoint, and when wave 2 features 30+ Bowmen on a map without a lot of cover, it's just asking to get destroyed quickly.

mvm_atomgrad_a6a: General consensus "bad map 0/10". Layout doesn't seem very fun, but it's hard to tell because the pathing is completely broken / nonexistent. Bad lighting with several rooms being near pitch black. Engineers can build in the small shack on the left side of the robot spawn area, causing teammates to become trapped. We lost a lot of playtesters to this map.

mvm_sludge_b4_fix1: whats up with the shadows in this map hahah. Really do not have fun playing this, the map is a complete push between humans and robots, with very little room to flank around or to get other attack vectors. This is a problem because on wave 1 (the only wave we had the patience to complete) you have to fight 2 giant defelctor heavies, as well as 26 Brass Beast heavies, with medics to boot. Without being able to get behind them easily, it's really hard to stand up to 6 Brass Beasts at once.

mvm_destruct_b1: Really long - seems built like a tower defense map. Which is how all of them are built - but this seems really apparent here. Sad to report that there is not the wonderful luxury of a forward resupply, which is ironic since this is definitely the longest map of the batch. Super chokepointy - first two waves were a cinch. Then came the soldiers. Soldiers with crits on a map this narrow is just deadtly to the max. The waves overall seemed very easy outside of this. Engineers can easily build on the roofs at the front of the map which makes them immune to sentry busters. The length of the map seems like it would make it hard to balance waves since predicting fallbacks would be shaky at best.

mvm_plateau_b5: It's a map in a box. Engineers can build at the bottom of the death pit. Putting a teleporter exit there causes anyone who takes the tele to die instantly. Stopped at wave 6/8 - fire heavies caused undue suffering to our people, and our spirits. At least it wasn't functionally broken. Aesthetic got a 1 instead of a 0 because of the upgrade station frog.

mvm_maelstrom_rc1: Definitely a hard map, and on one wave (wave 4 to be exact), the amount of support was choking out the spawning of the normal bots, it ended up taking more than the rest of the waves combined it felt like. Still one of the best playing ones outside of the awful wave 4, and one of 2 maps with actual working nav paths for the bomb runner.

Thanks x 5

Last edited: Apr 1, 2013

No man is so foolish but he may sometimes give another good counsel, and no man so wise that he may not easily err if he takes no other counsel than his own. He that is taught only by himself has a fool for a master.