> Yes, no doubt some> people did pass calculus with poor algebra skills before reform> calculus, but many of us tried to keep that from happening, and in> a department with reasonable standards it didn't happen all that > much.

Are you saying that it is a good thing to prevent students with weak algebra skills from passing calculus on that basis alone, even if they can demonstrate some ability in calculus? If so, Idisagree. On the other hand, if you are echoing my statement thatstudents should pay the price for weak algebra to the extent that itweakens their ability to understand calculus and solve calculus problems, then of course I agree.

What do you mean by reasonable standards? Do those standards includea requirement that students demonstrate an understanding of the basicconcepts of calculus? That they be able to solve a problem which is not based on a template they have studied before? That they be able to explain their answers? That they be able to deal with real data inthe form that scientists and engineers encounter it? That they be ableto come up with their own formulas modelling that data, rather thanmanipulate someone else's? I do not believe that these were included inthe standards of most departments before calculus reform. Calculusreform, properly applied, raises the standards considerably. Just askthe students.

> Now there seems to be a growing feeling that not much algebra is needed> for calculus, so less algebra will be learned in calculus and no doubt> less algebra will be learned in algebra classes since one can't use> calculus to justify the effort of learning algebra.

I wouldn't say not much algebra is needed for teaching calculus, but Iwould say that more of the algebra can be done on a computer orcalculator. However, there is one algebraic skill that is important forcalculus and its applications, and that computers cannot do, and that isthe ability to develop formulas which model a given situation, and tounderstand the significance of parameters in those formulas. This is anarea where calculus reform has increased the emphasis over traditionalcourses.

> Given the speed with which some people will give up teaching a hard> topic, I can forsee that soon not many students will learn much> algebra.

I agree that this is a problem. Calculus reform itself has the sameproblem. As I said above, I believe that calculus reform has raised thestandards. But no-one can guarantee that those standards will continueto be applied in the classroom. The traditional calculus course suffered from a steady decline in standards over many years, until all that wasrequired was facility in algebra. It's up to all of us to prevent this from happening again.

> For instance, we don't know that someone who doesn't> know much algebra can learn much science.

Probably not. We should talk and listen to scientists and engineersabout this. I believe the algebraic skill I mentioned above isimportant. However, there may be others that are better done on thecomputer; symbolic integration, for example.