--- Log opened Fri Feb 23 00:00:08 2007
--- Day changed Fri Feb 23 2007
00:00 < cls> seems to be treated more like a feature request than a bug :)
00:00 < clepple> btw, you can remap caps lock, control, option and command from sys prefs
00:00 < cls> yeah
00:00 < clepple> I wonder if there's a hidden pref for other key codes
00:00 < cls> addition to 10.4
00:00 < cls> lets hope 10.5 adds support for any key :P
00:01 < clepple> check 'defaults', it might be there
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00:03 < cls> i dont see a defaults, i have a restore defaults opt
00:03 < clepple> it's command-line
00:03 < cls> ah
00:04 < cls> not familiar with it
00:05 < clepple> huh. 'defaults read com.apple.ipod' will list all the serial numbers of iPods that have connected to your box, and when
00:06 < cls> wonder why os x needs that info
00:06 < clepple> think of it as the OS X equivalent of the windows registry
00:07 < clepple> iTunes probably reads and writes that key
00:07 * clepple -> sleep
00:08 < Boodlums> darn, nobody answering on freebsdhelp
00:08 < cls> night clepple
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00:31 < htodd> ok, how do you do a "fink selfupdate" in fink commander?
00:35 < dmacks> htodd: It's on the Source menu I think.
00:36 < htodd> I got another dia email
00:36 < htodd> first in a long time
00:36 < dmacks> Not "great package, works perfectly, thanks!" I take it?
00:39 < htodd> heh
00:39 < htodd> just 0.94-x doesn't work
00:39 < htodd> and my answer is usually, "Duh." :D
00:40 < dmacks> heh:)
01:05 < cls> dmacks: awake still? :)
01:05 < dmacks> No. Why?
01:05 < cls> im not too perl-savy. trying to install a module with cpan
01:05 < cls> and i dont understand the error
01:06 < dmacks> lisppaste it?
01:06 < cls> url for the pastebot?
01:07 < dmacks> lisppaste: help
01:07 < lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste.
01:10 < lisppaste> cls pasted "spreadsheet::parseexcel" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/37265
01:10 < dmacks> "Can't locate Jcode.pm in @INC". You need to install this module.
01:13 < cls> gotcha
01:14 < cls> i was looking for a reason after the errors, not before sorry ;p
01:14 < dmacks> np:)
01:14 < cls> so i assume Jcode.pm is simply module Jcode, installable with install Jcode
01:14 < cls> but what about Unicode/Map.pm?
01:15 < dmacks> (Fink has jcode also, but not quite the latest version)
01:15 < dmacks> Same issue...gotta install whatever module(s) it says it can't find.
01:16 < cls> yeah
01:16 < cls> trying to decipher cpan still :)
01:16 < cls> what module would Unicode/Map.pm be? how do i figure these out?
01:16 < cls> is Unicode/Map Unicode::Map?
01:17 < dmacks> Modules on CPAN are supposed to declare their own dependencies in a way that the 'cpan' program can install them automatically for you. *If* the author remembers to specify them:(
01:17 < dmacks> Yes.
01:17 < dmacks> The file Foo/Bar/Biff.pm is (usually) the module Foo::Bar::Biff.
01:18 < dmacks> (and is often foo-bar-biff-pm in fink; fink has the latest Unicode/Map.pm)
01:18 < cls> i noticed i can "m" to list modules, but it doesnt show "all", is there a search function/way to update the module list?
01:19 < dmacks> You want to see all many-hundred modules on the whole of CPAN??
01:19 < cls> no, but i wanted to update the db so i could search it
01:19 < cls> so one doesnt need to use cpan to install perl modules is what you are telling me? ;p
01:20 < dmacks> fink is independent of CPAN; I use fink whenever possible because it often has better dependency handling.
01:21 < cls> so it has been demonstrated ;p
01:21 < dmacks> cpan's help screen tells me that "reload index" might be what you want?
01:21 < cls> so its safe to mix and match cpan and fink for perl module installation?
01:22 < dmacks> I think so. Fink will try to ignore your manually installed things.
01:23 < dmacks> Fink's spreadsheet-parseexcel-pm is slightly out-dated, but might work for you.
01:24 < dmacks> (and automatically installs jcode, ole-storagelite, and unicode-map modules
01:25 < cls> i assume cpan has a mass-uninstall command, do you know what it is?
01:25 < dmacks> I'm fairly sure you're mis-assuming.
01:25 < cls> thats great
01:26 < cls> gotta uninstall each module manually?
01:26 < dmacks> The 'make install', which is how such a thing would likely actually work, is intentionally disabled in the makefiles IIRC
01:26 < dmacks> Gotta manually delete the files that got installed.
01:27 < cls> gorgeous
01:28 < cls> i think im remembering why ive never installed cpan before :)
01:29 < cls> all this to view a distributors list of anime because companies are still so windows-centric :P
01:29 < dmacks> It tracks what module sets (distribution name, not module name) are installed and sort-of where, in a file called "perllocal.pod"
01:30 < dmacks> ("It"=="The 'make install' that CPAN uses")
01:34 < cls> got spreadsheet::parseexcel working
01:34 < cls> ouch is it ugly :)
01:35 < dmacks> great!
01:35 < dmacks> boo:(
01:35 < cls> --------- SHEET:February 2007 Client Order Form
01:35 < cls> ( 0 , 0 ) =>QTY.
01:35 < cls> ( 0 , 1 ) =>TITLE
01:35 < cls> ( 0 , 2 ) =>FORMAT
01:35 < cls> hows that for ugly :/
01:35 < dmacks> Well, it's better than Excel.
01:36 < cls> haha
01:37 < cls> kinda psyched, ive been looking for an anime distributor for almost a year
01:38 < dmacks> Sounds like it's worth putting up with MS Crap for a little while?
01:38 < cls> well you know how it goes
01:38 < cls> the world works on windows
01:39 < dmacks> Yeah:(
01:39 < baba> the world works on quantum physics
01:40 < dmacks> Yeah, but nobody can figure out *how*:)
01:40 < dmacks> "Congratulations chris01!"
01:40 < cls> same for windows.
01:40 < dmacks> That, we know: poorly.
01:40 < brendan> here here
01:41 < cls> im sitting here looking at this garbled data pulled from the excel sheet thinking how am i goign to sed my way out of this one
01:41 < dmacks> Like, why do I have to save my Word docs in a pre-Windows98 compatiblity format to avoid graphics getting broken?
01:42 < cls> how about, why do i have to install WINDOWS media player to view content on sites on the "WORLD WIDE web"
01:42 < dmacks> ayup
01:42 < cls> i must have missed the memo. WWW-> MSWW
01:42 < cls> im glad activex never took off, that was scary
01:44 < dmacks> Why does the idea of "compatibility with everyone" in general seem so foreign to corps who are trying to reach "everyone"?
01:44 < cls> idiocy clouds vision?
01:45 < dmacks> Wish I had a bulletin board at $JOB for quips like that one!
01:45 < cls> not that steve jobs is perfect
01:45 < cls> but look at where apple has gone
01:45 < cls> and where ms is still
01:46 < cls> mind you, os x only really exists because jobs was able to acquire bsd source =p but at least some of os x is open
01:48 < dmacks> Open enough I can do what I need to do.
01:48 < cls> yeah
01:48 < cls> i mean, the community is really just lucky jobs gave back with os x
01:49 < dmacks> Very true.
01:49 < cls> he could have done what ms did with bind
01:49 < cls> thank god that never took off
01:49 < cls> that old NT dns crap was hard to integrate into a network heh
01:49 < cls> i only had to do it once, that was once too many times
01:50 < cls> which license(s) do you prefer? bsd? gpl? SharedSource? ;p
01:50 < dmacks> Better than Netware or whatver specific name for Novell's...thingy.
01:50 < cls> haha yeah netware, altho supposedly its not so bad these days
01:51 < dmacks> License? I like GPL (for stuff I write).
01:51 < cls> im only a hack coder, in my spare time :)
01:51 < cls> 99% in shell script, for what i do
01:52 < cls> what few programs ive written in c, if you can call them programs, are gpl :)
01:53 < cls> i suppose i could gpl shell scripts... but seems rather pointless heh
01:53 < dmacks> I'm in academia, so attribution and not proprietarizing (?) others' work is my whole world.
01:54 < dmacks> Oh, and shoe-string budgets, so free redistribution helps everyone.
01:54 < cls> i wrote a script earlier today, to parse a 74MB text log into Year_Month_Day_Date.log
01:54 < cls> and since the log has data for pretty much every day since mar 04
01:54 < cls> it was fun!
01:54 < dmacks> nice
01:54 < cls> 1074 files when i was finished lol
01:55 < cls> have you ever read steven levy's hackers?
01:55 < dmacks> Don't think so.
01:55 < cls> good read
01:55 < cls> about the good ol days of hackerdom
01:56 < cls> before closed source existed
01:56 < cls> even does the quicky on RMS
01:56 < cls> and what ultimately drove him to create GNU (which isnt really covered, but the 'straw that broke the camels bacl' is)
01:57 < dmacks> Will have to read it this summer.
01:57 < cls> he offered to rewrite, a driver i think, for free for a company, to get it working the way they needed it
01:57 < cls> and the company was 'no dice'
01:58 < cls> yeah i highly recomend it. it took me like 3 years to read cuz im not much of a reader :)
01:58 < cls> but it was the first book i finished in like 10 years
01:58 < cls> Model Railroad Club :)
01:58 < cls> thats where it all began!
01:58 * dmacks seraches library catalog for Hackers
01:59 < cls> hes also the author of crypto
01:59 < cls> which i havent read, prolly a bit above me
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01:59 < drm> hey dmacks
01:59 < dmacks> Hiya drm.
01:59 < dmacks> I saw the people update.
01:59 < drm> i just changed $linkroot in pdb/header.inc
01:59 < drm> prolly should be changed in the branch as well
02:00 < drm> (there is also a message to fink-devel about the people change)
02:01 < dmacks> Yeah, linkroot in branch is good
02:01 * drm doesn't have a branch checkout :/
02:01 * dmacks does.....
02:01 < drm> nor can i 'member the branchname
02:01 < drm> commit the change for me?
02:02 < dmacks> Done
02:02 < drm> thx
02:02 < dmacks> Oops, almost synced it the wrong way:)
02:02 < drm> we also have a shiny new hostlogo on the webpage
02:04 < dmacks> Er hold on, why does the branch linkroot point to the pdb.fp.o host but in HEAD it's www.fp.o?
02:04 < dmacks> (i.e., is linkroot for the whole website or for the part for which this is the header?)
02:05 < drm> well, maybe chris01 is making it point locally on purpose, for his testbed
02:05 < drm> but it *should* point back to the main site, which just switched from fink.sf.net to www.fp.o
02:05 * dmacks cancels cvs-commit, which was hanging anyway.
02:06 * drm emails some people about it
02:08 < dmacks> Should we saddle chris01 as None or as fink-gnome-core? I'm tired of them both saturating the same /dev/null mailbox.
02:08 < drm> hmm?
02:09 < dmacks> New guy's gotta help us with major tasks, like ignoring stuff efficiently!
02:09 < drm> yeah, well..., ask first :)
02:10 < drm> (we don't want him quitting in the first 24 hours :)
02:10 < dmacks> heh yeah
02:11 < dmacks> Was libgda yours a while ago? Thinking about updating it, wondering if there was anything you remember about it (especially anything that would make me run away from this task:)
02:11 < drm> yes, i recently abandoned it... can't remember why it was ever mine
02:11 < dmacks> 'k
02:11 < drm> the cause for abandonment was that it needs a major upgrade,
02:11 < drm> to more recent gnome stuff,
02:12 < dmacks> Yeah.
02:12 < drm> and i wasn't in the mood for that :/
02:12 < dmacks> I fixed some deps and donated it to gnome-core.
02:12 < drm> (to assuage my guilt, i picked up perlmagick and updated it...was years out of date)
02:12 < dmacks> That's a more important package anyway IMO
02:13 < dmacks> (or at least the main magick stuff in general)
02:13 < drm> yeah... i took over the main magick from jeff as some point
02:14 < dmacks> The thing I wanted new libgda for is also blocked by old gtk+2, so I'm not in a hurry to fiddle with it.
02:15 < drm> i think i prolly originally ported it in response to a request tracker item, or perhaps a "OD has this but you don't" taunt
02:15 < drm> i mean DP, not OD
02:15 < dmacks> heh
02:16 < dmacks> With any luck we can sucker RangerRick into libgda, since it's a dep for some of his *sharp stuff
02:16 < drm> ah, cool
02:17 < drm> what's another pkg when you already have 1000?
02:17 < dmacks> It's "1001", math-man.
02:17 < drm> heh
02:18 < drm> i was explaining to some kids in office hours today why sometimes you put a comma between the i and the j in a matrix entry a_{ij}
02:19 < drm> example was this: suppose you have a 101 x 101 matrix... then does a_{1011} lie in the 10th row and 11th column, or the 101st row and 1st column?
02:19 < dmacks> Please tell me $student didn't respond "what's the difference?"
02:19 < drm> nope, $student got the point
02:19 < dmacks> Ah good.
02:20 < baba> comma-seperated or space-separated
02:20 < drm> comma-separated
02:20 < drm> unless everything is going to be typed
02:21 < drm> human handwriting is to imprecise to rely on space separation
02:21 < drm> baba: BTW, rangerrick didn't want to use a password that had been emailed...probably you already heard that
02:21 < dmacks> Thinking of illegibleness, guess I should get back to grading exams:(
02:21 -!- dmacks is now known as dmacks_away
02:21 < baba> gee, not yet
02:22 < drm> he said he was going to email you... you and he need to find each other here on IRC, and he'll set up the account
02:22 < dmacks_away> *gah* STUPID EXCHANGE SERVER DIE DIE DIE!!!!!!!
02:22 < drm> dmacks_away: have you seen the latest mac vs. pc ad?
02:23 < baba> never seen dmacks getting so wild
02:23 < drm> not exactly the same issue, but hilarious nonetheless
02:24 < baba> btw, what tool, if any, do you use for presentation
02:25 < dmacks_away> drm: nope. baba: PowerPoint or specific applications for special visuals.
02:26 < drm> dmacks_away: its got a Man in Black as the vista security agent
02:26 < dmacks_away> heh
02:27 < drm> "mac has offered salutations. accept or deny?"
02:28 < drm> baba: i use latex, with pdf output, with style files designed for presentations
02:30 < baba> beamer?
02:30 < drm> sometimes
02:30 < drm> other times 'ppower4'
02:30 < baba> thanks
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02:41 < dmacks_away> My main presentation tool is a sweaty palmful of a half-dozen colors of chalk.
02:44 < baba> hm
02:44 < baba> maybe "chalk" is a nice name for a new presentation tool
02:45 < drm> the sweat on the chalk makes it impossible to erase, no?
02:45 < drm> baba: well, keynote has a "chalkboard" style
02:45 < baba> gaaa
02:45 < dmacks_away> drm: yeah:(
02:46 < dmacks_away> OTOH, keeps the dust from propagating from my hands to $everything as much.
02:46 < drm> true
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02:47 < drm> i don't use colored chalk very often, but at the end of a typical lecture i've got white chalk on various pieces of clothing, and sometimes on my face
02:48 * dmacks_away learns the "don't scratch it, no matter how badly it itches" lesson the hard way many times.
02:48 < drm> ok, time for you to grade and me to write a review sheet for the midterm
02:49 < dmacks_away> Yeah.
02:49 < dmacks_away> Er...trade ya?
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04:15 < Akeson_Chihiro> morning all
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05:35 < lisppaste> seshu annotated #23572 with "libpng build error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/23572#1
06:36 < Akeson_Chihiro_b> What do you think of setting a system like : http://www.mantisbugtracker.com/ ? To avoid mails in mailings list about master down or such stufss ?
06:36 < Akeson_Chihiro_b> about setting
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07:32 < theCynic> hi everyone, am getting an error message while doing a "sudo fink install vim" on os 10.4 using fink 0.25.3. Should I paste the error msgs here?
07:33 < theCynic> or is there a place i can post online and place a link?
07:33 < theCynic> *paste a link
07:34 < theCynic> hm realised from #topic there's a new version of fink, will try using that in the meantime ...
07:35 < pogma_> lisppaste: url?
07:35 < lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste.
07:35 -!- pogma_ is now known as pogma
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07:36 < theCynic> thanks pogma_
07:37 -!- hennk [i=flullup@dslb-084-063-021-125.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit]
07:38 < lisppaste> theCynic pasted "errors while doing a fink install vim" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/37275
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07:39 < pogma> theCynic: What X11 do you have installed?
07:40 < theCynic> pogma, the apple one
07:40 < pogma> theCynic: Did you change it at some point? I have /usr/X11R6/lib/libXinerama.1.dylib
07:40 < theCynic> pogma, hmm not on purpose ...
07:41 < pogma> if you don't have that file, you may have to reinstall X11 and the SDK from the OS dvds
07:42 < theCynic> pogma, ok, thanks for the advice. will try that at the next available chance.
07:42 < theCynic> pogma, much appreciated.
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07:47 < Akeson_Chihiro> heya pogma, howdy ?
07:57 < pogma> hi Akeson_Chihiro
08:00 < Akeson_Chihiro> What are you working on atm ?
08:00 < Akeson_Chihiro> give me some news :)
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08:20 < pogma> Akeson_Chihiro: I'm currently failing to get freenx working anywhere
08:21 < pogma> the whole thing builds, runs, sometimes without error, and does absolutely nothing
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08:35 < Akeson_Chihiro> hehe pogma
08:36 < Akeson_Chihiro> that's the joy of the work
08:36 < Akeson_Chihiro> toy
08:37 < Akeson_Chihiro> good luck
08:45 < pogma> There is no joy in freenx/nxserver it is full of non-portable crap - e.g. to get the second last bit of a string separated by an unknown number of "-", they do echo some-string-separated-by-s | rev | cut -d"-" -f2 | rev
08:45 < pogma> err?!?
08:46 < pogma> awk BEGIN '{FS="-"} {i=NF-1; print $i}' anyone?
08:47 < pogma> anyway, it has been giving me a headache for a week, hasn't changed my mood for the worse at all though :-p
08:48 < Akeson_Chihiro> oucha, yeah I was wondering last time if there was any properties in Open Source License about portability. I will inform later
08:48 < Akeson_Chihiro> or recommendations as the web w3c
08:48 < Akeson_Chihiro> with
08:48 < pogma> Akeson_Chihiro: there is POSIX
08:49 < pogma> UNIX03
08:49 < pogma> etc
08:49 < pogma> anyway, of all code were portable, I wouldn't have a job :-)
08:49 < Akeson_Chihiro> so other like GPL are totally free to use unportable method / right universal methods
08:50 < Akeson_Chihiro> arf yeah in a way
08:51 < Akeson_Chihiro> See ya later and be crazy
08:51 -!- Akeson_Chihiro is now known as Akeson_Chihiro_b
09:12 < clepple> pogma: they get creativity points for the use of 'rev' :-)
09:15 < pogma> clepple: yeah, I wouldn't actually care if 'rev' were a standard utility, but it does not exist on, e.g. solaris
09:18 < clepple> cls: I just realized... if you want to *look at* a .xls spreadsheet, not just parse it, you can use gnucash
09:18 < clepple> but thanks for the CPAN entertainment in the logs :-D
09:19 < clepple> cls: sed s/gnucash/gnumeric/
09:19 < clepple> dunno why I always confuse those two...
09:21 < clepple> pogma: that awk snippet is far from obvious, too... most languages would make it more obvious that $i is indirection, not just a variable reference.
09:21 < RangerRick> now that everything's squid'd, www.finkproject.org actually seems faster than SF.net
09:21 < RangerRick> despite being in .nl :)
09:22 < clepple> then again, they probably make good money on the support side of things, such as when some solaris house says they need nxserver, and they can't figure out how to compile it
09:27 < clepple> RangerRick: "seems" being the operative word :-) How long are the php pages cached?
09:28 < clepple> RangerRick: or is this just for downloading static files?
09:30 < RangerRick> I'm watching the logs
09:30 < RangerRick> it's everything
09:30 < RangerRick> bindist, distfiles, etc.
09:30 < RangerRick> squid's caching enough to make it snappy, at least :)
09:34 < kane-ripe> .nl++
09:34 < kane-ripe> rangerrick: i'll have you know, you're probably on one of the best networks in europe :)
09:35 < pogma> kane-ripe: yeah, but still, the consumers if .us.finkmirrors tend to be in the us :)
09:36 < kane-ripe> pogma: feel free to get a sponsor deal in .us and migrate! ;)
09:36 < kane-ripe> pogma: but seriously, i know what you mean.. i'm just being silly :)
09:36 < pogma> okay, so I don't have to apologize and kiss your ass then?
09:36 < kane-ripe> well, it's not _strictly_ required if that's what you mean
09:36 < pogma> lol
09:36 < kane-ripe> but we do consider a gesture of courtesy ;)
09:37 < pogma> ok - sorry
09:37 < pogma> I'd do an ass-kissing sound, but not sure how to type it
09:37 < kane-ripe> no worries.. i'll chalk it up to 'cultural differences'
09:38 < kane-ripe> it'd sound quite similar to kissing any /other/ cheek, wouldn't you think?
09:44 < clepple> RangerRick: I'm not trying to be a stick in the mud, but I was browsing around for a bit, and it seemed like there were longer delays when moving around between pages
09:44 < clepple> even among ones I had been to in the past few minutes
09:45 < clepple> with fink.sourceforge.net, maybe it's all the stats images and stuff, but there seems like a lot more activity in the browser status bar while loading
09:46 < clepple> so to me, the sf.site "seems" faster because it doesn't just all pop in at once after a delay
09:47 -!- hennk [i=flullup@dslb-084-063-021-125.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
09:47 * clepple is on DSL, east coast US
09:48 < clepple> kane-ripe: don't take this the wrong way, it's just a data point :)
09:49 < pogma> finkproject.org is *way* faster for me
09:49 < clepple> I do appreciate it... I know I couldn't afford to do this on my bandwidth budget at my coloc center
09:49 < clepple> pogma: faster response time, or download speed?
09:49 < pogma> clepple: faster everything
09:49 < kane-ripe> (dedicated boxes)++
09:51 * clepple should head to work
09:51 < clepple> ttyl
10:05 -!- irpyC [n=irpyC@lns-bzn-21-82-248-181-45.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #fink
10:05 * RangerRick is in the US east-coast, and it's much faster for him
10:05 < RangerRick> just depends on your route to it, I suppose
10:06 < irpyC> hi :)
10:07 < RangerRick> howdy irpyC
10:07 < RangerRick> kane-ripe: thanks again for the server :)
10:07 < RangerRick> it's taken some time to get things situated, but it seems to be working out pretty well now
10:08 < irpyC> hello RangerRick
10:25 < kane-ripe> rangerrick: you're more than welcome.. thanks for fink :)
10:27 < RangerRick> :)
10:31 < lisppaste> RangerRick pasted "abstract for aKademy 2007" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/37276
10:31 < RangerRick> I've been asked to speak at aKademy this year on KDE/Mac... :) how does that sound for an abstract?
10:33 < kane-ripe> RangerRick: a bit dry :) how 'hip' is this conference.. or is it mostly grey haired men with big bellies & beards?
10:37 < kane-ripe> RangerRick: notes about presentations from the master: http://www.canspice.org/2005/08/01/oscon-2005-the-conway-channel-first-half/
10:41 < RangerRick> hehe, yeah
10:41 < Akeson_Chihiro_b> french force ! irpyC
10:41 < RangerRick> I'm more punny tho', not sure how that translates to an abstract ;)
10:41 < Akeson_Chihiro_b> have a nice work day all
10:41 < Akeson_Chihiro_b> see ya
10:42 < kane-ripe> rangerrick: as long as you spark interest, you're fine
10:42 < kane-ripe> let me pull up one of mine, that i'm particularly happy with as an example
10:42 < RangerRick> cool
10:43 < kane-ripe> and this is one that's actually meant to 'inform' you about the contents ;) http://conferences.yapceurope.org/npw2006/talk/269
10:44 < kane-ripe> or, as a full on abstract: http://www2.perl-workshop.de/2003/contriblist.epl#126
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10:44 < kane-ripe> not saying mine are perfect, but usually the room is fairly filled when i give a talk ;)
10:45 < RangerRick> yeah, I think I need to get a little more informal, going by the other stuff on http://conference2006.kde.org/conference/presentations.php
10:47 < akh> Doing a KDE konference ?
10:48 -!- Snaggle [n=Snaggle@hs14chang3.cpmc.columbia.edu] has joined #fink
10:48 * Snaggle proposes that Fink be renamed Find: Fink is not debian
10:48 < RangerRick> !fink
10:48 < Melian> i guess fink is not Debian. Fink is not Debian. Fink is not Debian. Repeat ;-)
10:48 < RangerRick> akh: yup
10:49 < akh> kool!
10:50 < akh> "Fink Is Not Kubuntu (or ubuntu or debian or...)"
10:50 < lisppaste> Ranger Rick annotated #37276 with "update to the abstract, how's this?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/37276#1
10:51 < akh> It seems weird to me not to have unfounded future speculations. :-)
10:52 < RangerRick> I will also discuss interesting technical aspects of making a desktop environment work on a system that already has a desktop, as well as what still needs to be done to better integrate KDE applications with the Mac OS X environment.
10:52 < RangerRick> or that...
10:52 < RangerRick> akh: haha
10:52 -!- schimmi [n=sts@port-212-202-70-200.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
10:52 < RangerRick> "IN THE FUTURE, KDE ON MAC WILL SPEAK TO YOU IN SWAHILI, AND IRON YOUR CLOTHES USING THE CoreIroning API"
10:53 < akh> That's it. ;-)
10:54 < Snaggle> You want the Martian Swahili translation, not the pedestrian swahili
10:54 < akh> Is there a native KDE for Windows yet? I last used there under Cygwin/X11
10:54 < akh> (3.1, IIRC)
10:54 < akh> (KDE 3.1, not Windows. :-) )
10:55 < RangerRick> they're working on native windows as well
10:55 < akh> Nice. If I'm going to be forced to use Windows at work, I might as well get the desktop I want.
10:56 < RangerRick> but it will be like KDE/Mac
10:56 < RangerRick> desktop provided by the OS, just applications
10:58 < akh> sure
10:59 < kane-ripe> rangerrick: sounds better already... try to answre the question 'why would I care?' from a user perspective when reading the abstract, and you're gold :)
10:59 < RangerRick> yeah
11:00 < kane-ripe> "Bringing KDE to a Mac Near You!" "10 ways to make KDE shine on your mac!" "Simple tricks to get the most out of KDE"
11:00 < kane-ripe> stuff like that always works
11:06 < RangerRick> "KDE: Insanely Great!"
11:06 < RangerRick> hehe
11:07 < kane-ripe> "All Your Base are belong to KDE" "KDE & You; 10 tips to a succesfull relationship"
11:07 < kane-ripe> i can do this all day :)
11:07 < akh> "Use KDE to make money and satisfy your girl!"
11:08 < kane-ripe> 1) buy mac 2) get KDE 3) ... 4) profit!
11:08 < kane-ripe> if you make your talk about 3), room will be full :)
11:08 < kane-ripe> "why KDE is better than sex"
11:10 < irpyC> hi Akeson_Chihiro_b :D
11:28 < Akeson_Chihiro_b> heya guy ! Be busy is my business atm :(
11:33 -!- joyoftech [n=joyoftec@68-70-143-149.lkwnny.adelphia.net] has joined #fink
11:39 < akh> OMG: we had two non-SPAM messages in the queue.
11:41 -!- joyoftech [n=joyoftec@68-70-143-149.lkwnny.adelphia.net] has quit []
11:42 < RangerRick> wha... WHAT?
11:42 < RangerRick> how did that happen?
11:43 < akh> Dunno.
11:43 < akh> Must be a sign of the end-times. :-)
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12:04 < dmacks> akk (or anyone): feel free to update the libxml2 version requirement in (Build)Depends of libxslt in 10.[34]/unstable
12:05 < akh> ok
12:09 < dmacks> www.fp.o "Hosted By XS4ALL" w000000000t!
12:15 < akh> grr
12:16 < akh> silly maintainers
12:17 -!- danielj [n=danielj@pool-151-198-14-17.mad.east.verizon.net] has joined #fink
12:18 < akh> Putting in a single Perl version rather than a %type_raw[perl] in a varianted package.
12:19 < akh> Someone should take away his commit rigthts.
12:19 < akh> rights
12:20 -!- irpyC [n=irpyC@lns-bzn-21-82-248-181-45.adsl.proxad.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
12:22 < akh> That's the only way I'll learn my lesson. :-)
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12:51 < akh> Mr. core!
12:52 < chris01> what? who?
12:54 -!- suls [n=suls@80-219-208-90.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit []
12:55 < akh> You, of course. :-) Check -devel.
12:56 < akh> And if you have admin access now, fix the tracker instructions to conform to our current standards. ;-0
13:08 < chris01> oh no...
13:26 < akh> heh
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13:36 < sheppard> Does the version of samba that fink provides support opendirectory?
13:36 < akh> dunno
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13:46 < RangerRick> sheppard: I doubt it
13:46 < RangerRick> we still have samba2
13:50 < sheppard> bah
13:50 < sheppard> big thanks to apple for shipping a buggy version of samba
13:51 * sheppard sighs
13:53 < RangerRick> no one's wanted to take on the mantle of getting a modern one in fink
13:53 < RangerRick> I can only assume it's a PITA
13:54 < akh> sheppard: But we won't stop you if you want to give it a whirl. :-)
13:56 < sheppard> naw
13:56 < sheppard> i fail at coding/porting patches
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13:57 * akh thinks I've found the secret to the "Why isn't foo (-%v) in Fink" questions. :-)
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14:16 < akh> feh! forgot to commit pilot-link10 itself
14:17 < RangerRick> hehe
14:18 < akh> Good thing jfm did an update.
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14:23 < Akeson_Chihiro_b> hehe parents on hoidays i have the house for one week
14:23 < Akeson_Chihiro_b> fink party
14:23 < Akeson_Chihiro_b> come on !
14:25 < akh> I wouldn't have associated "fink" and :"party" in the same sentence. :-)
14:27 < RangerRick> dude, why not?
14:27 < RangerRick> we are party animals
14:29 < irpyC> hi Akeson_Chihiro_b :p (and hi all :)
14:31 < akh> RangerRick: Well, yeah--but I don't think we talk about packaging while doing so. :-)
14:36 < Akeson_Chihiro_b> I mean beer + developping
14:36 < Akeson_Chihiro_b> not in the sense of party first sense
14:37 < Akeson_Chihiro_b> No time for party
14:37 < Akeson_Chihiro_b> We are not anymore at university ;)
14:37 < Akeson_Chihiro_b> first meaning isntead of sense lol
14:37 < Akeson_Chihiro_b> isntead
14:37 < Akeson_Chihiro_b> instead
14:37 < Akeson_Chihiro_b> Grrr
14:38 < Akeson_Chihiro_b> irpyC second time to yellow -> are you drunk ?
14:38 < irpyC> no no :p
14:38 < Akeson_Chihiro_b> Boshakoya, bac kto work, see ya
14:38 < Akeson_Chihiro_b> french guys sucks
14:38 < Akeson_Chihiro_b> oups
14:38 < irpyC> you to :p
14:39 < Akeson_Chihiro_b> yeah I forget I am french
14:39 < Akeson_Chihiro_b> Y en a marre du web. trop de geeks. trop de guignols
14:39 < Akeson_Chihiro_b> coup de geule. @ pluche
14:39 < irpyC> essaye le minitel
14:39 < Akeson_Chihiro_b> lol
14:41 < danielj> I just added ntfs-3g to unstable If someone has an NTFS volume available and is willing to test. I don't have a means of testing it right now. :) Guess I'll have to make a Boot Camp volume.
14:42 < danielj> The heck? What did I hit to bold that...
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15:18 < akh> hehe
15:19 < akh> Command-B works on my client.
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16:02 * RangerRick is trying to get back on a schedule of updating his perlmods when he sees them go by in the cpan RSS feed, rather than 6 months later
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16:43 < akh> RangerRick: That's crazy talk.
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17:38 < Snaggle> happy weekend
17:38 -!- Snaggle [n=Snaggle@hs14chang3.cpmc.columbia.edu] has quit []
17:41 < RangerRick> impossible!
17:43 -!- Fingolfin [i=Fingolfi@unaffiliated/fingolfin] has quit []
17:46 -!- dmacks_away is now known as dmacks
17:47 < dmacks> Gnome migrated themselves to svn, and renamed the cvs server to "anoncvs-i-know-i-should-use-svn.gnome.org"
17:49 < RangerRick> heh
17:49 < Feanor> that sounds like a very gnome thing to do
17:50 < RangerRick> yeah, next step is getting everyone user accounts, and then it's time to start looking at svn :)
17:50 < RangerRick> `fink selfupdate-http`
17:50 < RangerRick> man, the selfupdate stuff all really needs to be refactored
17:51 < RangerRick> maybe I'll tackle that at the same time
17:51 < RangerRick> makes so much more sense to have an object that knows how to fetch itself, rather than all the stuff in SelfUpdate.pm in a big-ass set of functions
17:51 < dmacks> yeah, it's so many layers of hacks and extensions and hacked extensions and extended hacks...
17:52 < RangerRick> I'm just glad finch has stabilized
17:52 < RangerRick> squid made all the difference
17:52 < dmacks> Nice
17:52 * RangerRick ^5's squid
17:52 < RangerRick> half the most common bindist stuff is getting served right out of it now :)
17:52 < RangerRick> doesn't even hit apache
17:53 < Feanor> you shouldn't need to go to squid on the same machine for static files
17:53 < dmacks> Thinking of ass, could someone else reply to the -devel guy (gramps and gnome py bindings) that the answer hasn't changed in the 24 hours since I told him "no such" on -beginners? I can't write it without sounding like an ass.
17:54 * dmacks + Friday afternoon == snarkier than usual.
17:54 < RangerRick> Feanor: well, it's more that, we're using so much dynamic stuff for other things (ldap, svn, php) that apache's pretty heavyweight even when serving static
17:54 < RangerRick> it's easier to squid it than tune apache :)
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18:24 < dmalloc> RangerRick, I added your private account as well
18:25 < dmalloc> once the code is added I need to run the recheck though so let me know when it is there
18:27 < dmalloc> nm saw it is in there :)
18:27 < dmalloc> wrong code tough :)
18:28 < dmalloc> !lisppaste
18:28 < Melian> You can use lisppaste to paste errors at http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink instead of flooding the channel.
18:28 < lisppaste> dmalloc pasted "New urching code" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/37297
18:30 -!- rudy_ [n=rudy@cpe-66-66-133-47.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #fink
18:31 < dmalloc> we should make the copyright thing just -year()
18:31 * dmalloc is talking to himelf
18:39 < clepple> RangerRick: dunno which change did it, but I will agree that finkproject.org is snappy now
18:39 -!- Akeson_Chihiro [n=akesonch@ALagny-155-1-25-181.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #fink
18:39 < clepple> definitely not the same lag I saw this morning
18:40 < clepple> does anyone know, is Fink 0.8.0 the 10.4-trans tree?
18:40 < Akeson_Chihiro> gevening night all
18:41 < clepple> hello
18:41 < Akeson_Chihiro> hi clepple
18:43 < Akeson_Chihiro> no idea
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18:52 < clepple> answering my previous question, yes, 0.8.0 appears to be 10.4-trans
18:53 < chris01> clepple: but you know that 10.4T is obsolete, right?
18:54 < chris01> (oh yes... i guess you do)
18:56 < clepple> chris01: yeah, got a user email about not being able to find geda-bundle
18:56 < clepple> now that the pkg database doesn't mention 10.4T, it didn't occur to me that people would still be stuck on 0.8.0
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18:58 < clepple> !unstable
18:58 < Melian> methinks unstable is http://www.finkproject.org/faq/usage-fink.php#unstable, or http://www.finkproject.org/faq/usage-fink.php#bindist
18:58 -!- Plantain [n=Plantain@ppp225-201.lns2.adl4.internode.on.net] has joined #fink
19:00 < clepple> !todai
19:00 < Melian> i heard todai is an unofficial bindist for 10.3 and 10.4 (non-transitional, x86 and PPC). Add "deb http://fink.sodan.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/apt/10.4 unstable main crypto" to /sw/etc/apt/sources.list . Remember it's not officially supported, don't expect us to fix breakage!
19:03 < chris01> is finch still overloaded?
19:03 < dmalloc> no
19:03 < chris01> I got another "Query took 25.00 sec"
19:03 < brendan> might be cold cache. retry it.
19:04 < chris01> right, retrying almost always fixes these long sql times
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19:08 < dmalloc> well myisam is not exactly the best DB format to choose either :)
19:09 < dmalloc> unless of course we only do reads on the tables
19:10 < chris01> we only do reads on the tables
19:12 < dmalloc> when or how do they get updated then? do you take the db offline for that?
19:13 < chris01> well, ok, there is write access 3x a day. For a couple of seconds.
19:14 < dmalloc> do we issue SELECT that takes long times to run?
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19:19 < clepple> if it's mysql, there's always the slow query log
19:20 < dmalloc> you might like http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:nKHaSBo7bHwJ:jpipes.com/presentations/mysql_perf_tuning.pdf+MyIsam+versus+solidDB+benchmark&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=14&gl=uk&client=firefox-a chris01
19:31 < clepple> dmalloc: if that guy says "example ahead" one more time...
19:32 < dmalloc> http://jpipes.com/presentations/mysql_perf_tuning.pdf
19:32 < _akh_> clepple: heh
19:34 < clepple> did anyone else catch the irony of "The easy way" on page 23?
19:34 < clepple> that's *exactly* the SELECT statement I think of when I want to do it the easy way!
19:37 -!- akh [n=akhansen@71-87-214-39.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit []
19:49 < Akeson_Chihiro> clepple - fink - 9 point 6
19:49 < Akeson_Chihiro> 9.9
19:49 < Akeson_Chihiro> 9.7
19:50 < Akeson_Chihiro> gold position
19:50 * clepple = confused
19:50 < Akeson_Chihiro> arf it was a joke like Olympics Games
19:51 < Akeson_Chihiro> my french from english language = maxi gap for kidding
19:51 < _akh_> 5.3 from the Russian judge.
19:51 < clepple> hehe, the "fink" threw me off... I still claim US citizenship
19:51 < Akeson_Chihiro> heya akh
19:51 < Akeson_Chihiro> heh
19:51 < clepple> but I'm sure dmalloc is working on the paperwork so that people can seek asylum in the Republic of Fink
19:52 < Akeson_Chihiro> I am writing the liba52.info
19:52 < _akh_> OK
19:53 < _akh_> Our GDP is $0, though.
19:53 < Akeson_Chihiro> just to tell I am alive and ready to kick ass the djbfft this week end if you have a free time
19:53 < _akh_> I'm working toward it.
19:53 < Akeson_Chihiro> nice :)
19:53 < dmalloc> congrats _akh_ as I missed out reading fink-core I could not help with the decision :)
19:53 < Akeson_Chihiro> you are faster than my colleagues at work
19:53 < _akh_> dmalloc: Thanks!
19:55 < Akeson_Chihiro> he a few months ago when i was so exciting i talked about writing a book. Does someone start ?
19:56 < Akeson_Chihiro> Fink cap
19:56 < Akeson_Chihiro> Dark Malloc that sounds nice
19:59 < Akeson_Chihiro> !seen TheSin
19:59 < Melian> thesin was last seen on IRC in channel #fink, 2d 1h 57m 10s ago, saying: 'but you know what I mean'.
20:06 < Akeson_Chihiro> S***
20:06 < Akeson_Chihiro> liba52 seems actually to be Package a52dec
20:07 < Akeson_Chihiro> and is up to date Grrr
20:07 < Akeson_Chihiro> on freshports it was written requird Math - djbfft
20:08 < Akeson_Chihiro> Can someon explain me ?
20:09 < _akh_> Using features that the existing package doesn't build?
20:10 < Akeson_Chihiro> liba52 on freshports points to liba52.sf.net and seems to be exactly a52dev
20:11 < _akh_> the names are arbitrary
20:11 < Akeson_Chihiro> locate liba52 : /sw/lib/liba52.la
20:11 < Akeson_Chihiro> /sw/lib/liba52.dylib
20:11 < Akeson_Chihiro> ....
20:11 < Akeson_Chihiro> \snif
20:12 < Akeson_Chihiro> this means since the beginning I could directly attack Kaffeine
20:12 < _akh_> Possibly, yeah,
20:12 < clepple> ooh, this one might just trump Emacs' picture-mode: http://www.simonhaertel.de/ascii-edit
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20:13 < Akeson_Chihiro> of course yeah, it liba52 was the only dependency that I missed (I thought I missed)
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20:13 < _akh_> clepple: yeah
20:13 < Akeson_Chihiro> Hard to be a geek
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20:14 < Akeson_Chihiro> I think I can fight to win the geek reward hehe
20:14 < clepple> _akh_: unfortunately, it's shareware. I had hope - other stuff on that site is open source
20:15 < _akh_> bummer
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21:12 < Akeson_Chihiro_> it seems ok for kaffeine
21:12 < Akeson_Chihiro_> i just have a problem to check checking for cdda_interface.h... no
21:13 < Akeson_Chihiro_> will look in a few hours
21:13 < Akeson_Chihiro_> gnight
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21:15 < schneecrash> does Jeffrey Whitaker lurk here?
21:18 < _akh_> no
21:18 < schneecrash> _akh_: by email @ ?
21:18 < _akh_> jswhit@fastmail.fm
21:19 < schneecrash> thx!
21:19 < _akh_> yup
21:19 < _akh_> no problem
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--- Log closed Sat Feb 24 00:00:16 2007