AgentKGB:I blame the 50% divorce rate on unrealistic expectations. So many people seem to believe that marriage will save their relationship. Marriage is like a house and the relationship you have pre-marriage is the foundation on the house. I know people who fought 4 or more times a week and thought marriage would put an end to that. O_o Speaking of which, I hate it when people who are in FoF (Fighting or farking, where you're either fighting or farking each others brains out) relationships get divorced and people are all shocked. If you can't make it 2 - 3 days without having a giant fight with your spouse than maybe you two shouldn't be married.

I've seen two couples get a divorce this year because of what I would call "crowded" marriages. They end up with 25+ year old stepkids either living with them or spending 12+ hours a day at their house instead of looking for work, getting training etc. They lounge around all day, mooch the food etc but "oh no we can't ask them to help with bills, etc. They're going through a tough time."

Well, I see what you're saying and would agree for the most part.

But as far as the foundation thing goes... I have a different twist to add:

Maturity and compatibility.

I met the woman that is now my wife of over 10 years on a Friday, one month later we moved in together and that was about 12 years ago, with 1 1/2 year before we married, only to get her divorce, the custody issues settled and other things done with.

What made the difference was the fact that we both knew what we didn't want and what we did want, and that we'd work and put the effort when effort might be needed.

Our differences complement each other, and our similarities made us able to share and respect each other. Trust is a huge factor, but so is the dedication to the relationship.

I won't say it's all candy and apples, some things were hard at times, but those things just about always has an external entity to it... be it other people meddling, or some baggage from our pasts but never anything that was about "us" as a whole.

Yeah yeah yeah. Let me know when they come out with a segment teaching that you have to take your pills until the bottle is empty, not just till the burning goes away.

I got chlamydia three times in 1985, twice from the same chick -- see above. She was 20 but a major Muppets fan from preschool.

They might also teach kiddies that condoms are good things and how to practice putting them on a banana. Or, for that age group, Daddy's thumb.

Why should we start this stuff so early, you ask? Have you ever been to Baltimore, MD, where I grew up? In my day 12 year old boys routinely "molested" their 10 year old sisters' friends, and I've been reading that with all the increased nutrition and fat consumption these days puberty is coming earlier all the time. For the girls anyway: the chemicals in drinking water turn boy frogs into girly ones. I also hear the Girl Scouts are hotbeds of lesbian indoctrination; if so why might that be?

"But these days, divorceporn is simply a reality - 'a fact of American life,' as one dad involved in the project put it - so widespread it would almost be taboo to ignore it. And so, two decades post-Snuffy debacleafter the Pamela Anderson sex tape, the outreach team eagerly took a second crack at the topic. Admittedly, it wasn't simple. Researchers wondered which Muppet has the best personality for the role, what kind of vocabulary would be best to get the message across. And while the goals were easy - to help kids understand that divorce is never their fault, that mom and dad will still love themdaddy wasn't hurting mommy, mommy likes to be spanked - accomplishing them was another story."

These don't count as divorces, of course, but I used to work with a woman who would date a guy, get engaged and call off the entire thing a few months before the ceremony (when the deposits had already been put down on the hall, catering, dresses/suits etc). She did this THREE times in about 4 years. After the third time her divorced parents, who normally avoid each other at all costs, contacted each other on the phone, went to her apartment together and gave her the "maybe marriage isn't for you... we're not paying for any more weddings because they never happen" talk. She's more or less given up on dating now because if she finds someone she wants to marry she doesn't want to have to explain why her well-off parents won't foot ½ the bill. Someone suggested eloping or having a small ceremony with a justice of the peace and she was horrified. *sigh*

/Calling off one wedding before it happens? I can see that happening/Two? Well... okay but don't let it happen again/Three?! You're on your own.

I would like to be a pioneer in marriage that doesn't insist upon "til death do we part".

The only obstacle I see is the term limit. If I told a woman, "I promise never to leave you, nor fark other women, and love you for the next five years," I'd probably have some takers, depending on their age.

But if I wanted to make that 20 years, maybe to raise two children, she might not like it because then our marriage might end and leave her looking for companionship at the age of 50 or 60.

But then again, that might work in our favor because we'd both be trying to make the marriage enjoyable for each other that we might re-marry when it's all over.

Divorce is when mommy thinks she still looks like she did when she was 20, she can start her life over taking what she wants and leaving daddy holding a bag of crap. Then because mommy doesn't have any job experience she tries to soak daddy for 80% of his income via child support and alimony. Turns out mommy's lawyer had his license suspended for touching the bathing suit area of a 15yr old girl he got drunk and the judge doesn't like him very much. Turns out just because mommy thinks she is "owed" something doesn't mean she gets it. The judge tells mommy that she IS going to have to pay 1/2 the bills they've racked up over the years and 1/2 the mortgage until the house sells. She doesn't get to take you guys to another state and she can't force daddy to drive 2 hours to see you because she can't find gas money to meet 1/2 way. The judge tells mommy she can't keep you and daddy from talking on the phone because she "Has other stuff to do more important than monitor the conversations."

Mommy cries.

Mommy calls daddy and asks if they can work it out but even though daddy really misses you he knows you have better times together when mommy is somewhere else. Daddy starts to loose weight because he isn't stressed 24-7 and he can spend time with his friends again. Mommy finds out she doesn't look like she did in her 20s and divorced, unemployed, mother of three isn't the man-bait she thought (or didn't) it would be. Turns out there is a shocking dearth of men wanting to sweep her off her feet and make her life a bed of roses. Mommy wonders if maybe Lifetime had be lying to her for all those years.

\lots of heartache but worth every penny\\kids are doing much better now but it's been a rough few years.

imfallen_angel:AgentKGB: I blame the 50% divorce rate on unrealistic expectations. So many people seem to believe that marriage will save their relationship. Marriage is like a house and the relationship you have pre-marriage is the foundation on the house. I know people who fought 4 or more times a week and thought marriage would put an end to that. O_o Speaking of which, I hate it when people who are in FoF (Fighting or farking, where you're either fighting or farking each others brains out) relationships get divorced and people are all shocked. If you can't make it 2 - 3 days without having a giant fight with your spouse than maybe you two shouldn't be married.

I've seen two couples get a divorce this year because of what I would call "crowded" marriages. They end up with 25+ year old stepkids either living with them or spending 12+ hours a day at their house instead of looking for work, getting training etc. They lounge around all day, mooch the food etc but "oh no we can't ask them to help with bills, etc. They're going through a tough time."

Well, I see what you're saying and would agree for the most part.

But as far as the foundation thing goes... I have a different twist to add:

Maturity and compatibility.

I met the woman that is now my wife of over 10 years on a Friday, one month later we moved in together and that was about 12 years ago, with 1 1/2 year before we married, only to get her divorce, the custody issues settled and other things done with.

What made the difference was the fact that we both knew what we didn't want and what we did want, and that we'd work and put the effort when effort might be needed.

Our differences complement each other, and our similarities made us able to share and respect each other. Trust is a huge factor, but so is the dedication to the relationship.

I won't say it's all candy and apples, some things were hard at times, but those things just about always has an external entity to it... be it other people meddling, or some baggage from our pasts but never anything that was about "us" as a whole.

Yeah I should have worded it better. I had to move in with my now-wife then-gf after a month because my room-mate bailed on me. I went from her apartment to mine and all his stuff was gone. (I couldn't afford the rent myself). I do have to wonder what % of marriages ending in divorce is the result of external things (in-laws, idiot friends, step-kids poisoning their mom/dad's mind against you) etc and not really a result of the people themselves.

AgentKGB:I blame the 50% divorce rate on unrealistic expectations. So many people seem to believe that marriage will save their relationship. Marriage is like a house and the relationship you have pre-marriage is the foundation on the house. I know people who fought 4 or more times a week and thought marriage would put an end to that. O_o Speaking of which, I hate it when people who are in FoF (Fighting or farking, where you're either fighting or farking each others brains out) relationships get divorced and people are all shocked. If you can't make it 2 - 3 days without having a giant fight with your spouse than maybe you two shouldn't be married.

I've seen two couples get a divorce this year because of what I would call "crowded" marriages. They end up with 25+ year old stepkids either living with them or spending 12+ hours a day at their house instead of looking for work, getting training etc. They lounge around all day, mooch the food etc but "oh no we can't ask them to help with bills, etc. They're going through a tough time."

asmodeus224:Divorce is totally fine for kids, just look at all the well adjusted FArkers in this thread.

Wow, seriously, you guys are a mess. There isn't enough vodka or therapy in the world for some of you, is there?

It doesn't always have to be so ugly. My ex and I share custody and it works for our kids, at parent teacher conferences my daughters teacher didn't even realize we were divorced and she lived at two homes. It isn't easy but from the beginning we agreed to a two step program.

1. Put the best interests of the kids first.2. Mean it.

They have two complete households, no need to take anything back and forth. On big issues Mom and I work together to maintain a unified front so there is no "Mommy said I could do this". On smaller issues they understand that some rules are different when they are at home with mom vs. at home with dad (we also don't refer to "mom's house" or "dad's house" they are both "home") It takes a lot of work on the part of Mom and I and effective communication, but it can be done.

AngryJailhouseFistfark:Smeggy Smurf: mom who turned to fundie religion and used it as her justification to fark every swinging dick in sight

Once upon a time I was caught up in the Fundie Evangelical Christian thing. I devoted myself dutifully to it for nearly a decade. It was not some kook fringe movement operating out of some guy's shed, but a big, mainstream, contempo-worship with the band and the singing and the Holy Spirit, and a little speaking in tongues here and there but no snake handling or gom jabbars or really exotic stuff. At no point in my journey with these people was there ever any "farking every swinging dick in sight". Had there been, I might have stayed, being an able-bodied swinging dick myself.

You're not nutty enough to believe that go forth and multiply means women can run around but if a guy looks at another woman it's SATAN DRIVING YOU TO SIN!!! You're not nutty enough to believe that losing weight is a mortal sin because it will make men lust after you. 450lbs isn't gluttony, it's pride in being humble.

I'm just surprised that she found a white guy with a big enough dick to get past the flab a few years ago. That lasted a total of 4 days while her folks were out of town. They came back and I've never seen a guy move out of state so fast.

AgentKGB:Yeah I should have worded it better. I had to move in with my now-wife then-gf after a month because my room-mate bailed on me. I went from her apartment to mine and all his stuff was gone. (I couldn't afford the rent myself). I do have to wonder what % of marriages ending in divorce is the result of external things (in-laws, idiot friends, step-kids poisoning their mom/dad's mind against you) etc and not really a result of the people themselves.

Oh, definitely... the number are probably higher than most would think.

For me, my story for the ex was that we were young, no place to really go as both didn't have a place and living with the family (too long for details), so in many ways, it was an overnight arrangement, and thanks to low self-esteem I went with it.

For my wife, I was actually very stable, my own place and all that, we moved in together because we wanted to be together and built a life together.

So while both are "similar" thanks to the little time before the moving in together, the differences are astronomical.

And for the "external things". Both families did everything to cause us trouble, plus my wife's oldest is bipolar, and tried... I mean TRIED to do everything to break us up, and the pre-mentioned family on her side jumped in and assisted the BS.

It's amazing what some people do just to be jerks and cause drama because their lives are so freaking empty.

AgentKGB:I do have to wonder what % of marriages ending in divorce is the result of external things (in-laws, idiot friends, step-kids poisoning their mom/dad's mind against you) etc and not really a result of the people themselves.

My suspicion is that there's very few of those. Not that they don't blame those outside issues, but that in all truth one or the other of the partners in the marriage let that issue destroy the marriage and preferred that to actually dealing with the problem.

Reason being, the people are either committed to the marital relationship or they aren't. There's people who have gone through job loss, severe financial troubles, death of relatives (even children), and meddling in laws who have made it work. Then there's those who haven't.

If you let your in laws, idiot friends, or bratty stepkids butt into your marriage, that is a reflection on you. You chose your mother in law's opinion, your friends' funtimes, or your kids' wishes over your spouse. If a couple wants to stay together they will. If something separates them, that's something that they valued over the relationship.

While I'm not sure it belongs in the regular rotation of the TV show, it isn't going there. I do find it fascinating about how they test things and do their darndest to make sure they do it RIGHT. They do recognize their place in things and take it seriously.

I saw a great documentary on Sesame Street. When they started they spent years and millions of dollars (in the 60's) consulting with education experts and developmental psychologists before the first episode aired to make sure that it was done right. Glad to see that they have kept true to that after all these years.

There was one song about divorce that appeared on the show in (I think) the 90s; Kermit went to the park to do interviews, and found a bird whose parents were split up. They never used the "D" word, but the refrain was exactly what was posted in the article: "Mom's tree is over here / back there is Daddy's tree, / They live in different places / But they both love me!" Since Abby doesn't live in trees, I reckon they'll change that part.

I worry that I've settled for too much comfort and ease, and not enough passion.

I find myself wishing that Mrs_Fab was fundamentally different in some way, and more aligned with my sensibilities and point of view.

There are things she does that will grate on my nerves worse than nails on a chalkboard. And worse, I know there are things about my own character that must be irritating her even worse... but she won't say what they are.

Yes, there are times when I begin to wonder whether I've made a 25-year mistake.

But then I come here, to Fark, where cold reality is laid bare and raw and hideously naked. And my faith is fully restored, as if a miraculous spring has cleansed my very soul.

Boy do I see a lot of similaties in some of these posts with what happened to me. Been through the wife leaving and me raising the kids. Got remarried and have been through the step kids issues as well. We are almost to the point where they are all productive citizenry. Just a few years of college left. Went through each of my biological kids pulling the "I want to live with Mom" bit as well. I think it shocked them when the next morning a plane ticket and and empty suitcase was on their bed. I really only hope that at some point they realize how much that hurt.

akula:If you let your in laws, idiot friends, or bratty stepkids butt into your marriage, that is a reflection on you. You chose your mother in law's opinion, your friends' funtimes, or your kids' wishes over your spouse. If a couple wants to stay together they will. If something separates them, that's something that they valued over the relationship.

I'd agree for the most part, but you apparently haven't met some people that I've known. It's amazing the length that some will go to cause drama and problems for others.

imfallen_angel:akula: If you let your in laws, idiot friends, or bratty stepkids butt into your marriage, that is a reflection on you. You chose your mother in law's opinion, your friends' funtimes, or your kids' wishes over your spouse. If a couple wants to stay together they will. If something separates them, that's something that they valued over the relationship.

I'd agree for the most part, but you apparently haven't met some people that I've known. It's amazing the length that some will go to cause drama and problems for others.

I don't doubt it, but you have a choice to let people into your life or to cut them off. Some people are truly, completely, and virulently toxic, but one does not need to maintain lines of communication to such people.

I'd contend that this is the kind of thing that is ideally discussed pre-marriage; in counseling or just between the couple or whatever- if there's somebody who is that actively troublesome, there needs to be talk about how to handle it. Assuming it will go away is a significant mistake, and one that is likely to hurt the marriage on down the line.

If a potential spouse will not cut an actively toxic relationship, then it's probably better to not get married. A couple may love each other very much, but if there's (for example) a rotten kid who is an embarrassment to the parents and constantly in trouble but the parent will keep enabling that behavior, then that's not going to change just from the addition of a ring and consumption of wedding cake.

Whether one takes the Bible seriously or not, the characterization of "leaving father and mother and becoming one flesh" is a great image for what needs to happen in a marital union. If there is anybody who one of the spouses will choose over his/her husband/wife, then there's a problem, whether it's a preexisting child*, a friend, a family member, a lover, etc.

When I started dating the woman who became Mrs. Akula, her middle sister decided she would do whatever it would take to break us up. My then-GF (now wife) told me about it, we had a great laugh, and we both decided the sister would NOT be a factor in our relationship... if she sister decided to be a determined biatch, she would be ignored. Thankfully, the sister got over it and was not a problem- it never got to the point of estrangement. But had she continued, there would have been a choice made sooner or later (and before the wedding) as to which relationship would have priority.

*This can be hairy, and I'm not suggesting kicking a bratty five year old to the curb. I'm saying that if the parent and stepparent cannot get on the same page in how to handle a child (minor or adult) from a previous union, then that marriage is not likely to survive if that child is a toxic personality.

imfallen_angel:AgentKGB: Yeah I should have worded it better. I had to move in with my now-wife then-gf after a month because my room-mate bailed on me. I went from her apartment to mine and all his stuff was gone. (I couldn't afford the rent myself). I do have to wonder what % of marriages ending in divorce is the result of external things (in-laws, idiot friends, step-kids poisoning their mom/dad's mind against you) etc and not really a result of the people themselves.

Oh, definitely... the number are probably higher than most would think.

For me, my story for the ex was that we were young, no place to really go as both didn't have a place and living with the family (too long for details), so in many ways, it was an overnight arrangement, and thanks to low self-esteem I went with it.

For my wife, I was actually very stable, my own place and all that, we moved in together because we wanted to be together and built a life together.

So while both are "similar" thanks to the little time before the moving in together, the differences are astronomical.

And for the "external things". Both families did everything to cause us trouble, plus my wife's oldest is bipolar, and tried... I mean TRIED to do everything to break us up, and the pre-mentioned family on her side jumped in and assisted the BS.

It's amazing what some people do just to be jerks and cause drama because their lives are so freaking empty.

And

Ouch... I'm glad things are going better for you now :)

akula:AgentKGB: I do have to wonder what % of marriages ending in divorce is the result of external things (in-laws, idiot friends, step-kids poisoning their mom/dad's mind against you) etc and not really a result of the people themselves.

My suspicion is that there's very few of those. Not that they don't blame those outside issues, but that in all truth one or the other of the partners in the marriage let that issue destroy the marriage and preferred that to actually dealing with the problem.

Reason being, the people are either committed to the marital relationship or they aren't. There's people who have gone through job loss, severe financial troubles, death of relatives (even children), and meddling in laws who have made it work. Then there's those who haven't.

If you let your in laws, idiot friends, or bratty stepkids butt into your marriage, that is a reflection on you. You chose your mother in law's opinion, your friends' funtimes, or your kids' wishes over your spouse. If a couple wants to stay together they will. If something separates them, that's something that they valued over the relationship.

I hadn't thought of it that way. I do agree with imfallen_angel, though, that some peoples' life goal seems to be breaking up others' relationships.

I worry that I've settled for too much comfort and ease, and not enough passion.

I find myself wishing that Mrs_Fab was fundamentally different in some way, and more aligned with my sensibilities and point of view.

There are things she does that will grate on my nerves worse than nails on a chalkboard. And worse, I know there are things about my own character that must be irritating her even worse... but she won't say what they are.

Yes, there are times when I begin to wonder whether I've made a 25-year mistake.

But then I come here, to Fark, where cold reality is laid bare and raw and hideously naked. And my faith is fully restored, as if a miraculous spring has cleansed my very soul.

Because, man... you guys are farking damaged.

/shudder

Look at these threads as a warning. Not an anti-marriage warning but the same kind of warning as those people who go from school to school talking to kids about the awful life choices they made etc. (No not Quagmire) ;)

megalynn44:Nuclear Monk: I'm surprised it's taken this long to be a topic...would have been more relavent in the 80's and 90's. Nowadays it seems that many parents just never bother getting married in the first place.

/not judging.

I can see why parents who are in a secure relationship with no foreseeable plans to separate would not want their small children being told all about divorce. It's just placing worry in them. It's kind of akin to showing 10 yr olds horror movies.

"Don't worry, lil' Goober, divorce only happens when the couple doesn't want to be together anymore, and your mom and I are still pretty fond of each other."

akula:I don't doubt it, but you have a choice to let people into your life or to cut them off. Some people are truly, completely, and virulently toxic, but one does not need to maintain lines of communication to such people.

Oh, I agree... and both my wife and myself have told both our family to shove it and cut of contact with just about all of them.

And when the bipolar kid pulled more stuff, and pulled the ultimatum on her mother, well, she didn't get the results that she expected and she ended up going to the family members that made all the crap possible. (grandparents aka my wife's father and new wife - they married because they believed that they have more weight in the courts when they were trying to cause the crap)

The delicious irony of this is that this kid has caused them to separate and about 4 heart attacks for this woman... a truly nasty evil B*&^$% of a person.

Do the needful: I really only hope that at some point they realize how much that hurt.

As a kid from the other side, they do/will.

As far as the crowded marriage suggestion:

Sure, I have no problem with taking responsibility for causing chaos in my parents' lives that may have facilitated a divorce. However, it doesn't help when the stepdad in the situation has been unemployed for as long as the kid, in spite of actually having a career and experience in said career (whereas kid has none). It also doesn't help that said stepdad insists on calling everything HIS even though Mommy is the only one with a job and kid doesn't let parents pay for anything (except utilities, and that's only because every time kid offered, parents said "No, we're fine"). Bonus: stepdad cheated. Yet kid still gets the blame? Awesome.

Mr_Fabulous:But then I come here, to Fark, where cold reality is laid bare and raw and hideously naked. And my faith is fully restored, as if a miraculous spring has cleansed my very soul.Because, man... you guys are farking damaged./shudder

I'll say. And I'm pretty farking damaged by a bad marriage and an even worse divorce.

But I'm a woman, so it either doesn't count, or it was all my fault anyway.

cryinoutloud:Mr_Fabulous: But then I come here, to Fark, where cold reality is laid bare and raw and hideously naked. And my faith is fully restored, as if a miraculous spring has cleansed my very soul.Because, man... you guys are farking damaged./shudder

I'll say. And I'm pretty farking damaged by a bad marriage and an even worse divorce.

But I'm a woman, so it either doesn't count, or it was all my fault anyway.

That's one thing that I don't see though...

I don't see myself as damaged by my past as some people do.

I grew from the hardships, I learned a LOT about myself, about others.

When I met my wife, she was "damaged" from her family and ex, etc... but I would believe that she learned to understand herself and others in a similar way.

I did have a good two years being single and then single dad to "find myself", and did a lot of stupid stuff, but I do consider those years to have been my most formative years of all my life... where I reshaped myself and left all of the past behind.

The only follow up to it (once I had met my wife) was the crap from my siblings that really pushed me to see how better off I was without them around, something that had I met her or not, would have happened anyways.

For example... my ex still calls me and acts like I'm her only best friend, when I really have nothing towards her aside some pity as her decent into a full pledge paranoid schizophrenic is quite sad. There's been a restraining order on her for a long time, but as long as she doesn't cross any lines, I'm going to be myself, which is to be a nice person and I offer her advice and respond to her questions... I just won't tolerate any abuse and will hang up when she starts yelling and such, usually when she drinks (even though she's not supposed to with her medication).

What has annoyed my wife and I are seeing people with kids who get divorced for bullshat reasons ("he / she became a little boring") and the the divorcees wonder why their kids are "seem so upset."

Realize that in these cases the classic 'family-unit' is the only world a kid has ever known. And these lazy, narcissitic 'self fulfillment types destroy the foundation of their kids' worldview. then and stand in dumb wonder at the disruption it causes.

Guess what entiltement types: it isn't a Honeymoon all the time. Suck it up. Especially once kids are involved, the Marriage as a structural force in the lives of the kids is bigger than one's need to crawl up Maslow's triangle. "Ohhh. you're not 'fulfilled'?" Call the Waaaahmbulnce.

I wonder how much your own immediate family experience sets this up? If one sees examples growing up of how a long term marriage works, then one better knows what to expect?

Example for me:Paternal Grandparents: married 65+ years until grandma's deathParents: married 40+ years so farIn-Laws: married over 40+ yearsMe & Mrs: married over 17 years

Having seen the rewards of the long-term, you can better have perspective on the short-term issues.

I worry that I've settled for too much comfort and ease, and not enough passion.

I find myself wishing that Mrs_Fab was fundamentally different in some way, and more aligned with my sensibilities and point of view.

There are things she does that will grate on my nerves worse than nails on a chalkboard. And worse, I know there are things about my own character that must be irritating her even worse... but she won't say what they are.

Yes, there are times when I begin to wonder whether I've made a 25-year mistake.

But then I come here, to Fark, where cold reality is laid bare and raw and hideously naked. And my faith is fully restored, as if a miraculous spring has cleansed my very soul.

Because, man... you guys are farking damaged.

/shudder

Look upon me and dispair. It is too late for me, but heed my warning, learn from it, and guard yourself, lest ye find yourself steeped in this misery.

Actually I'm quite happy with Mrs. JailhouseFistfark, as are my children. Ex-wife's a pain in the ass, but that's what my attorney (and liquidated IRA) are for.

ObscureNameHere:What has annoyed my wife and I are seeing people with kids who get divorced for bullshat reasons ("he / she became a little boring") and the the divorcees wonder why their kids are "seem so upset."

I agree with that to an extent... there are probably way too many that split up over just a number of trivial or narcissistic bordom "needs". But, every situation is different....

I have one situation close to me where the wife's manchild husband cheated on her for a second time, except that second time was moving in with the nanny secretly while pregnant with their second child (and inviting the nanny to the delivery room). Obviously after it was discovered, that was all a deal breaker (and the husband didn't want to get back together anyway, is an eternal fratboy).

I have another with our neighbor who was the Asst. Principal and cheated on his wife with a 16 year old student, while she was pregnant with their 3rd kid, which of course meant he lost his career, spent 2 years in jail... you'd think that would be a dealbreaker... but, they didn't break up (and unfortunately, didn't move either, so now we have the little "dot" on the Family Watchdog website across the street from us.... good thing we aren't planning on moving soon.)

dletter:I have another with our neighbor who was the Asst. Principal and cheated on his wife with a 16 year old student, while she was pregnant with their 3rd kid, which of course meant he lost his career, spent 2 years in jail... you'd think that would be a dealbreaker... but, they didn't break up (and unfortunately, didn't move either, so now we have the little "dot" on the Family Watchdog website across the street from us.... good thing we aren't planning on moving soon.)

Holy shiat, who would want to sleep with a 16 year old that is pregnant for the third time?

I worry that I've settled for too much comfort and ease, and not enough passion.

I find myself wishing that Mrs_Fab was fundamentally different in some way, and more aligned with my sensibilities and point of view.

There are things she does that will grate on my nerves worse than nails on a chalkboard. And worse, I know there are things about my own character that must be irritating her even worse... but she won't say what they are.

Yes, there are times when I begin to wonder whether I've made a 25-year mistake.

But then I come here, to Fark, where cold reality is laid bare and raw and hideously naked. And my faith is fully restored, as if a miraculous spring has cleansed my very soul.

Seriously, tho... I didn't want to sound all gloaty or rub-salt-in-wound-y before. I've seen how devastating divorce can be, and I've done all I can to make life with Mrs_Fab work out well for both of us. So far, we've been lucky. Or good. Probably both.

theMagni:megalynn44: Nuclear Monk: I'm surprised it's taken this long to be a topic...would have been more relavent in the 80's and 90's. Nowadays it seems that many parents just never bother getting married in the first place.

/not judging.

I can see why parents who are in a secure relationship with no foreseeable plans to separate would not want their small children being told all about divorce. It's just placing worry in them. It's kind of akin to showing 10 yr olds horror movies.

We went from "this might be our last councelling session, everything is going to be okay" and making plans for our anniversary to separated in under 24 hours. Now she's told the kids that her consort, "won't be your stepdad or anything".

Stability is relative.

Fark, that must have been one hell of a blowup. Wasn't quite as bad for me, but still had the days where the sun came out and the future looked good only to end up with a new revelation or a new blowup a few hours later. (It was because the future only looked good to one of us at a time, pretty much. Gave us both major mood whiplash repeatedly.)

Man, every time I come here and read these threads, I worry about my cousin getting his balls ripped off by his son-to-be ex. She just declared out of the blue she wants to split, and he's trying desperately to save it. My guess is she doesn't want to be a housewife any more, wish she'd thought about that before they popped out two little kids.

/Let her go man, you deserve better//It'll work out in the long run, trust me

While I'm not sure it belongs in the regular rotation of the TV show, it isn't going there. I do find it fascinating about how they test things and do their darndest to make sure they do it RIGHT. They do recognize their place in things and take it seriously.

I saw a great documentary on Sesame Street. When they started they spent years and millions of dollars (in the 60's) consulting with education experts and developmental psychologists before the first episode aired to make sure that it was done right. Glad to see that they have kept true to that after all these years.

While I'm not sure it belongs in the regular rotation of the TV show, it isn't going there. I do find it fascinating about how they test things and do their darndest to make sure they do it RIGHT. They do recognize their place in things and take it seriously.

I saw a great documentary on Sesame Street. When they started they spent years and millions of dollars (in the 60's) consulting with education experts and developmental psychologists before the first episode aired to make sure that it was done right. Glad to see that they have kept true to that after all these years.

Was this it? Independent Lens, The World According to Sesame Street.

Never mind divorce, overseas productions have to try to explain an ethnic grudge match to kids in Kosovo, and AIDS to kids in South Africa.

It wasn't that...I believe it was an A&E Biography. You know, before they went full realityretard.

Peki:Do the needful: I really only hope that at some point they realize how much that hurt.

As a kid from the other side, they do/will.

Thanks. I really tried not to take their decisions personally, knowing they are just kids, but deep down it really takes the wind out of you. Being the parent that stuck around and put them first and to have them choose to walk out on you (I better just stop now)...

Ronin_S:Man, every time I come here and read these threads, I worry about my cousin getting his balls ripped off by his son-to-be ex. She just declared out of the blue she wants to split, and he's trying desperately to save it. My guess is she doesn't want to be a housewife any more, wish she'd thought about that before they popped out two little kids.

/Let her go man, you deserve better//It'll work out in the long run, trust me

From someone who was there I can say that you are spot on. Let her go. When I got divorced I thought I was going to just up and die. A lot of "how am I going to live without the person I chose to have kids with, etc." It took some time to realize this but I am so much better off. Tell him to hang in there and one day he will look back and thank his lucky stars. I know I do.