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Ask the Readers: If parents are paying for college, are any majors off limits?

This is a guest post from Jacqueline Whiton, who self-financed her undergraduate education and MBA. She is interested in personal finance and is saving to fund her three teenagers’ anticipated college expenses.

After saving since your child was in preschool, you celebrate euphorically when your son or daughter is accepted to the college of his or her choice. You’d always imagined that your math whiz would become a chief financial officer (CFO), but are surprised when Junior says, “I’m leaning toward majoring in history.”

My friend Karen describes a similar scenario:

Our daughter worked hard throughout high school, earning nearly straight A’s and assuming leadership positions in sports and clubs. Her passion for and success in speech and debate tournaments seemed to position her well for a career as an attorney.

Now that she has been accepted to college, she says she really wants to major in film studies with a goal to be involved in making movies. We are worried that this is a lot like wanting to become a rock star: a few people make a lot of money but there are many more struggling artists who barely get by.

My husband and I have worked hard to save for our daughter’s education so that she should not have to take out much in student loans if she completes her degree in four years. But, we hadn’t anticipated that our hard-earned dollars might go to pay for a course of study that has questionable financial prospects.

We are torn about whether to pay for her to study anything that she wants, or to withhold or limit our financial support if she insists on majoring in something we feel is frivolous.

If we “hold our nose” and write the checks, we risk wasting a lot of money on a degree that may not help our daughter launch a solid career. On the other hand, if she studies something she truly loves, she may ultimately become a success in her chosen field.

We are considering holding back some of the funds in her 529 plan, possibly rolling it over to one of her younger siblings. This is leading to conflict between us that I wish we could avoid at what should be an exciting time in her life.

Parents do not “owe” their offspring a free college education, but those who have saved for college often understandably want to help their kids avoid as much debt as possible, and savings in 529 plans must be used for educational expenses to avoid tax penalties.

Karen’s first option, paying the bills regardless of her child’s concentration in college, preserves the right to say, “I told you so,” but should only be embraced if she believes that there is a way to turn just about any subject into a viable career.

If she’s scrimped and saved for years and honestly feels that her daughter is dumping money down the drain, there is no reason to passively accept that fate. Karen could explain her concerns about the choice of major and insist that her daughter augment her education with coursework that Karen feels is appropriate. She might offer to pay for tuition, books, fees and living expenses in proportion to the practical courses studied each semester. The student would be expected to work and/or borrow to cover the proportion of expenses related to studies disapproved by Karen.

Ideally, Karen and her daughter will come to an agreement on a major that Karen doesn’t mind financing. Whether that involves her daughter convincing her mother of the value of a film studies major, or both parties agreeing on some other course of study, doesn’t matter.

How to think about choosing a major

Karen should outline a list of steps her daughter can take to convince her that a film studies major is reasonable, and explain that she will pay only as much as her conscience allows if she remains unconvinced. Potential requirements for her daughter could be:

Review the Occupational Handbook at the Bureau of Labor Statistics and document the mean annual wage for people in her desired field, as well as the employment outlook for her intended profession.

Ask her college to put her in touch with recent graduates in the same major and contact former students to find out about their post-college experience. Have they found work? Are they pleased with the pay and work environment? How optimistic are they about their career prospects? Is further education likely to be required?

Contact the college’s placement center or work with professors to identify relevant internship opportunities (even if unpaid) that may be available to students and approach companies or organizations to learn details of those internships.

Participate in volunteer work that allows her to learn more about working in the film industry and build skills at the same time.

Karen should commit to keeping an open mind about the value of her daughter’s proposed degree and insist that her daughter also keep an open mind. If it turns out there are more opportunities than she imagined available to film studies majors, Karen can pay as much as she can comfortably afford to support that degree pursuit. But, if her daughter discovers that the post-college road is bleak for those who majored in film studies, or similar subject, it would be wise to select a major with brighter prospects. It’s always possible to take a few film studies courses for fun while concentrating elsewhere.

If the daughter had straight A’s and great curricular activities, she sounds like a reasonable person who made the choice to follow her passion, unlike many low grade students who would go to college and study any “easy” major because it’s fun. I would finance her studies on the condition that she keeps a 4.0 GPA.

Not to mention the futility of getting a law degree these days. Law school graduates may have a bleaker future than film school graduates. In a world that is increasingly digital and social I think film school is a great idea and very forward thinking with a variety of potential avenues.

No. Just…NO.
I was a near straight-A student in college too. I studied Graphic Design, and pulled all A’s in my major (with one or two high B’s). Graduated cum laude. Never partied. Made art my life, and was the most serious student you can imagine, following my passion.

It was good for about 10 years after I graduated. Had mostly low-paying art jobs, but always thought I’d eventually work my way up the ladder. I never was able to. There were too many other amazing artists, too much talent out there, and too few jobs. The last time I had full employment in my field was 2005.

I’m now 41, living in my parent’s basement, and going back to college for an Accounting degree. This article phrased it right: Some “Careers” are like trying to become a Rock Star. Only a scant few “make it”, and the rest are starving on the streets. If I didn’t have my family, I would be homeless.

In addition, I had wasted my parent’s money on a useless art degree, that only bought me a bit of time of employment, and never enough to make a true living wage. What a waste of time. I should have become an accountant from day one, and kept art as a side job.

NEVER “follow your passion” if your passion is a poor choice in careers. I don’t care how dedicated you are to art, writing, music, basket-weaving, women’s studies, etc….if you’re in a field where jobs are few, and the people needing them are many, you will most likely lose out to the odds. Following your passion is a bad choice if you want to “not be homeless”.

Your portfolio, not your degree, is what matters when you’re in the visual arts (just look at how many people make it in this field with no degree). Is your art competitive? Are you marketing yourself effectively? Have you developed a broad network of clients and former coworkers?

Have you considered acquired additional skills to augment your graphic design skills?

For example, there’s a shortage of UI/UX designers/artists as every company on the planet scrambles to get an app into the mobile space. The mobile platform is exploding faster than programmers and artists can crank out assets for mobile websites and apps. Less than one year of study into a scripting or programming language and some work on a UI portfolio would land you a solid job. And that’s just one possibility…

I work in casual games and good artists are making $60-$95K a year (more if they become leads or art directors). Not sure what kind of art you do or if that’s of interest, but there are tons of great jobs in this industry.

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Debt free at 23says:

28 September 2012 at 6:49 pm

I agree with you.

“Do what you love” is absolutely terrible career advice for most people.

Here’s better advice:

1) Do what you LIKE
2) Do what you’re GOOD AT
3) Do what PAYS THE BILLS, and allows you to pursue your passions / travel goals / hobbies on your free time.

My passion is video gaming, I build computers for fun, I’m a home theater and A/V enthusiast. I also love skiing. I’d NEVER do any of that professionally nor attempt to earn a living that way.

My career? I’m a an Engineer in R&D with a biotechnology company. I do very well in my opinion.

However…

I don’t LOVE my job, I certainly wouldn’t do it for free, or even half pay. I’m challenged by it but I’m not particularly passionate about it. It’s okay.

But you don’t HAVE to love your job to have a good life.

I think my generation (I’m 23) seems to think they can take out tens of thousands of dollars in loans for a useless degree then complain about the McJobs they work to survive, blaming the economy and the government and everyone else.

College is an investment, one you expect a return on. It might be ‘what you make of it’… and the comments section is full of people with arts degrees defending their choices and citing how well they did.

That’s good for you, and I’m glad, but you’re generally the exception, not the rule.

Apologies for the little rant.

Personally I’d rather have an ‘okay’ job with a good work life balance and exceptional pay than try and generate meager income from my passions… for me that would take all the ‘passion’ out of it.

Oh, Buddy, I feel your pain. We too encouraged our very gifted son to “follow his passion” in college. Yikes! He did – international studies, poli sci, russian etc. It was a great ride for him while it lasted. Now he’s got 3 majors, 2 minors and is working as a pizza delivery guy for $5.15 an hour, plus tips – ha! To complicate matters he wants to go to law school. Ugh!

Send your poly si/ russian kid to dc! State and Defense are still hiring! Peace Corps is another way. There ARE jobs there for him.
As for the film major. I know many. Not one works in the field. My friend did it a different way. She supplied the fund for a solid major (engineering) and a theater minor. It is working out well. Her daughter did not miss the essential freshman classes and when she tired of stage she began to work lights. She has a few good offers for after graduation since lighting and engineering have a lot to do with each other….

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kylesays:

06 October 2012 at 2:37 pm

I totally disagree with this. I went to school for film. It isn’t damning yourself to a life of starving artist misery. I didn’t move to LA after college, I stayed in my home state and now I’m a video editor working on corporate and marketing videos. I love what I do, because I love making video. Some of my friends from college did move to LA and they worked really hard and now almost all of them have really cool jobs working in entertainment, they love what they do.

There are so many jobs in media and the arts now, at all levels. Sure some people become rockstars in these field, it is a combination of luck and hard work. Some people just love working in the field and they do fine too.
I’m not a rockstar by any means, but I make a totally fine middle class living. And I get to do something I enjoy everyday. That means a lot.

I actually would completely disagree with this. You love your daughter, so guide her to a path that will benefit her. I have a degree in the arts (see comment #47, I think), and I wish I had my money back. I would have been better served either A) not going to school and getting a job in the theatre business right out of high school…or B) spending my money and college life pursuing a degree that would result in a higher paying job. The money spent on “art” degrees does not justify the amount of money made in the business. Furthermore, you don’t need a degree to puruse an artistic lifestyle. What you need is a drive to succeed, luck, and the right connections – which you make by getting involved in the business ASAP. Least of all, you need talent because that should be a given if you are to succeed in the arts.

If you want to encourage her to follow her dream, tell her to get involved in the business now. She can take professional training classes and spend much less than at a university. If she wants to go to college, encourage her to spend her time and money on something that makes sense financially in the end. You are not obligated to pay for her mistakes. In the end, it is her decision.

THANK YOU, Greg. I found out the hard way that talent is the LAST thing you need in an art field to succeed. The first thing is connections. If you lack connections (ie: Your dad is the Art Director of PepsiCo), then you will most likely fail. I know so many super-talented, amazing artists who are out of work right now (and have been for the last 5 years or so), simply because they don’t have an “in” to anything. Talent means nothing. It’s all about who-you-know, and the average joe simply lacks those super-high-up connections within companies.

Why does it have to be all or nothing? If it is truly the daughter’s passion, do the research with her so she goes in with eyes wide open and make her pay for the first two years herself. If she still is just as passionate and doing well, pay for the last two. Or pay just for the last one? I think it is dangerous dictating what your children should do but I also do not believe you MUST pay for a child’s education…if they really want it, they will find a way.

Greg,
This was a great post! One of the challenges with working with high school seniors is they are high school seniors . If the parents tell her they can’t study that or they won’t help pay for it, it could be the motivation for the student to take out a bunch of private loans to go to a private school in film studies .

I think there could be a compromise, like have the student go to school part time and get a job in the industry at the same time or find a community college with a film program so the student can learn on their own that it might not be the career for them, but save quite a bit of money in the process.

Young people sometime are not mature enough to realize what their dreams are.
Perhaps she can take a gap year and travel a bit or take some independent film study classes.
Or better yet, take a year and get involve in the film industry. Find a mentor and become an intern or something like that.

You are insane. As a parent your job and responsibility to your children is to help them make good decisions. If she were ten and her dream were to jump off a bridge would you help her fulfill that dream too? Come on, grow up. My son graduated from college with a good degree and is now working in his field making good money. I would tell my daughter if she wants some BS degree she can pay for it. My money will provide her with a useful education.

While I think that parents should support their children it really is their money and they aren’t obligated to pay for college so it is their decision. I would be conflicted as well but I think I’d have to withhold the money or at least part of it. If they want to major in something like that they need to pay at least half of the cost so they can decide whether or not they think their prospects are good enough to pay off their loans after they graduate.

I think considering this situation from a purely financial perspective is unwise. There is far more than money at stake, and the real question is “Which do you value more, money or your daughter?” Karen seems blissfully unaware that her daughter is an adult, and treating her daughter like a petulant two year old will only damage their relationship. If she continues down that road, she may well end up saving her money at the cost of her daughter.

I agree. I majored in Sociology, and I have never done any work doing demographic research or polling. But it doesn’t matter. What mattered was that I had a bachelor’s degree. And now, because I just happen to have an aptitude for working with computers, I am making more money than I ever thought I would. I also think that NOT having a computer science degree helps show that I am not a stereotypical computer nerd who lacks social graces

I guess it really boils down to what you think a college degree is for. I see college as a time to expand your horizons – intellectually and socially – and the degree will increase your opportunities, not limit them. It is NOT, however, a guarantee of employment. Even if Karen’s daughter majors in busines she is still NOT GUARANTEED A JOB/LUCRATIVE CAREER!

Also, if someone is forced to major in something they hate, then they are not as likely to succeed academically. Just a thought…

^ THIS. I settled on a music major in college because I loved choral music, but performing solo was entirely out of my comfort zone.

My parents footed the bill for my tuition, for which I’m grateful, and they thought I was making a mistake when I informed them of my decision (I had also been considering a major in Russian, psychology, or history), but my argument was this:

I didn’t have stellar social skills growing up, and being thrown onstage to grapple with and improve upon my performance issues on a regular basis greatly improved my confidence in a way that a traditional academic major wouldn’t have. I got good grades in high school, but in combination with taking on several leadership positions in college, choosing an unconventional major helped develop skills that, in my opinion, got me the positions I’ve had, because I was able to stay cool under pressure, multitask, and present myself well during interviews. (Explaining how your qualifications tie into the position you’re applying for to a hiring manager is nothing once you’ve performed a “modern” operetta dressed as the Cat in the Hat in front of 500 people. That’s an extreme example, and I did learn useful, tangible things from my major, but one feels like more of an ass in that scenario than performing a Tchaikovsky aria.)

Like Jen said, no major is a guarantee that you’ll land a job. There are a lot of psych majors out there looking for work. If you have a range of solid skills and you’re persistent and creative once you graduate, you’ll find something that will pay the bills.

I think parents should decide (in conjunction with their children) how free their child’s choice of major is on a case-by-case basis. One kid might be able to take a seemingly useless major and make something out of it, even if they don’t end up with a career in that field, whereas for another it would be a waste of time. And I think Jacqueline’s suggestions for helping high schoolers confirm whether their prospective major/career path is for them are excellent.

“Even if Karen’s daughter majors in busines she is still NOT GUARANTEED A JOB/LUCRATIVE CAREER!”

By the way, business degrees have gotten pretty watered down and lately seem to be a magnet for academically mediocre students. I think it would be a big mistake to major in business, thinking it was going to be lucrative. (A business/something else double major might not be so bad, though.)

I agree that the purpose of a degree is not a job. It’s a university not a trade school.

That said, Film Studies does not seem like the most well-rounded, thought-provoking, paradigm-challenging of degrees. I’d rather my kids have a degree in soc or business or psych…then go into the movie business.

I own an advertising agency/marketing consultancy. I’ve only hired one advertising major —you don’t learn enough about the craft in college to make it that useful and I’m always suspect of someone who pays thousands of dollars to study selling to people.

This. Are there legitimately still people who only see college as glorified job training? I went to a liberal arts school and majored in the dreaded dead-end major of psychology. And I don’t regret that in the slightest. Of course the job I got doesn’t “use” (by which I mean require) my psychology degree (and I never really thought it would), but everything I do uses critical thinking and analysis skills, reading and synthesizing, thinking, discussing, and generally knowing things about the world at large and people in particular. Which is exactly the point of, well, everything, isn’t it?

So, if you have always thought of saving for your kids’ colleges to be a specific investment in their career and future earnings, then no, don’t fund liberal arts educations. But if you’ve thought of it as improving your children’s lives, then of course you ought to! (Also if they grew up hearing you talk about paying for college without specific caveats mentioned, it’s grossly unfair to uproot everything now. They might have made different decisions all along.)

Being an Alfie Kohn fan, I see it the other way around. To me this scenario sounds like Karen and her husband want to punish their daughter for choosing film school by withholding the college funds that were intended for her. Rolling those funds over to her younger, presumably more obedient siblings struck me as especially punitive. And punishment is love withdrawal. Maybe that’s not their intention – but it doesn’t matter if that’s what it feels like to the child (or subadult, if you will…at 17-18 I wouldn’t call most college kids “full adults”).

But then, I regard 529s, college, and education in general differently than many on this board. As far as I’m concerned, education is for developing a love for discovery, creativity, critical thinking – the kinds of flexible foundational skills that help you to meet any challenge in this rapidly changing world. As others have pointed out, most employers now care less what your degree is in than that you have a degree. Moreover, many are actively seeking “soft skills” like socialization and ability to work in a team, as well as those same foundational skills that can’t be easily quantified (creativity, critical thinking). (This is why Google’s in-house preschools are founded on Reggio Emilia and play, and why discovery-based schools like SF Brightworks are all the rage in Silicon Valley!) She’d get that in spades with a film degree. Not so much with a business degree.

On the other hand, I do think it’s fair for parents to have serious discussions with their children about their college choice and career aspirations – provided these are actual discussions where the kids are allowed their say, not parental lectures or strong-arming. I also think ALL students (barring chronic illness or serious disability or other extenuating circumstances) should work before & during their college years to help pay for their tuition.

But ultimately, I think that funding college for your child is just another gift in a long line of gifts that we, as parents, give to them, no strings attached. A gift! Not a command, not a contract, not a means to control your child’s life.

And let’s be realistic: even if Karen’s daughter obeys and takes the business course her parents want her to take, she could still fail. She could be depressed and miserable throughout college, doing something she hates. Look how many GRS articles are about changing careers! how many GRS authors & readers hate their work and wish they could be doing something else! whose lives have been set back by years because they were “stuck” doing something they never wanted, never asked-for. Isn’t one of the goals of being financially independent to find a balance between being happy and being financially secure?

Ultimately, I believe that the goal of parenting is to raise happy, confident adults who make choices independent of us – including choices that turn out to be mistakes. Not automatons who conform to our expectations, who do as they’re told lest we withdraw our support and love.

Oh, I missed the part about shifting funds to the other siblings….!!!!!!!

Doing that will not do any good to the family dynamics.

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Charlottesays:

28 September 2012 at 10:34 am

I disagree, as the daughter whose parents pulled the plug for two years because I wanted to be an English major. (see post #103)

At 18, many people only have a fuzzy idea of what they want to do in life and what it takes to survive in the real world. Yes, technically they’re an adult, but not really.

When my parents refused to pay my tuition, I was angry and scared. How dare they make my life decisions for me? Do they expect me to sacrifice my dreams and spend the rest of my life slogging through a job I don’t care about? They just want me to choose the path that they wish they had chosen, but I’m not them!

But I also knew that the reason they were doing this was because they loved me and wanted what’s best for me. It forced me to answer some very important questions:

How badly do I want to study this? Is this truly where my passion lies? Am I willing to fight for it?

Do I want to follow my passion even if it means that I may struggle financially for the rest of my life? What if I put my dream on hold, sacrifice 10-15 years to make as much money as possible, and then pursue my dream once I’m financially free? Is there a middle ground?

My parents’ tough love approach worked, only not the way they expected. I didn’t cave in and switch my major, but I made my decision consciously and intentionally, with a clear understanding of the consequences of my choice.

So it’s not about “Which do you value more, money or your daughter?”, it’s about using money as leverage to force someone to confront crucial life questions and understand that all choices have trade-offs and consequences. If my parents hadn’t forced me to make decisions and stand by them, to put my money where my mouth was, I might have experienced a rude awakening after college. It wasn’t fun, it was stressful, and maybe I even resented my parents at the time, but looking back now 10 years later, I’m thankful for what I learned through this. I have no regrets for my decisions, and that’s all they ever really wanted.

My father was an organic chemistry major who went on to get an MBA and work in banking. He is now a senior VP at one of the nation’s top banks, not a doctor as he once intended. He encouraged me to go to college to become educated, not to train for a job. “College is not trade school,” he said.

I was a history major and have never been dependent on my parents since I graduated. Part of that time I was working as a volunteer, inner city teacher (in exchange for room, board and a free masters degree). I was able to work for “free” because I had no college debt. It was the best gift my parents could give me.

Dad also says that he is more apt to hire an English major than a business major because they are more well-rounded and know how to write better, a must for almost any job.

Most top level jobs require grad school now. Undergraduate education is for learning critical thinking and expanding your horizons, not for job training.

The most unemployed major today in the country is …the English major. My dad used to say the same thing, but he is way past the stage of hiring anyone.

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Glorified Plumbersays:

30 September 2012 at 8:52 pm

This is a very inspired story and it worked very well for you and your father, but I think people need to be aware that a story such as this is extremely atypical.

For most… college will be their version of trade school. Most will attempt to get work in their field, and most who attempt to get work outside of it will fail without out SOME sort of training in the field; or being really lucky.

If you like a certain field of study, the best way to obtain it is to study it. Not study something else and then attempt to move into it.

One thing to take from Lib’s story though is that a college degree isn’t necessarily a final determination of your career. If, after school, you change your mind, with enough tenacity and work ethic you CAN make it happen, but it is atypical and is NOT good advice for the general person.

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dianasays:

17 October 2012 at 11:25 am

Actually, English degrees are doing ok. If you look at any of the statistics for the least few years, it’s psychology, anthropology, and architecture that have the highest unemployment rates at the Bachelors level.

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Johnsays:

29 September 2012 at 5:00 pm

If Karen’s little girl is all grown up then she can pay for her own darned degree. As long as Mom and Dad are footing the bills, they get a big say it what those bills pay for. If little sweet’ums can’t handle that, there’s the door. My money would still be around waiting to help out when sweet’ums is actually a real adult.

Two words: double major. It doesn’t cost any more, and allows both the parents and the student to be happy. I’m a professor at a small liberal arts college in New England, and it’s amazing how many students double major in, say, pre-med and theater arts.

That said, outside of specialty majors, what college really teaches (and I am definitely showing my liberal arts bias here) is HOW to learn–how to get information, how to put it together, how to make connections. That ability will serve a student well in any field. So, I would never, ever advise a student to major in a discipline in which s/he has zero interest, just because the job prospects are better. The percentage of people whose careers fall into different fields than their major is incredibly high.

Well put. In very few cases nowadays does a college major lead directly to a job in exactly what was studied — and people change careers often enough nowadays (voluntarily or otherwise) that majoring in something job-oriented, like accounting or engineering, is no guarantee of a lifetime of paychecks. Nor, incidentally, does any particular kind of major guarantee a lifetime of *happiness*, which parents and students both need to remember is NOT the same as a lifetime of paychecks.

Employers value college graduates who think critically, write and speak effectively, take the initiative, work independently, have good mental discipline, behave ethically, adapt quickly to new demands or environments, and understand (at least to some extent) how to work with other people. Because these skills transfer to every job, they can also see a person through quarter- and mid-life crises and layoffs. If your offspring graduates without acquiring those skills, you have wasted money no matter what he or she chose as a major.

All that being said, if you insist that your offspring major in one thing when he or she really wants to major in something else, then go ahead and refuse to pay. Let your son or daughter work his or her way through college. He or she will get much, much more out of the experience that way. As a college professor, I notice a huge difference in motivation and discipline between students who are paying for college themselves (even partially) and know why they want to major in X or Y, and students who are just going to college because it’s expected of them and whose parents are paying for it.

Finally, two recommendations. First, a serious one: Read and buy for your offspring the book entitled *What Color Is Your Parachute?* And second, from the online comic strip XKCD, a hilarious take on the perils of various majors:

Absolutely!! I think one of the significant reasons I was hired by my various employers is because I have a liberal arts degree. Another reason is that I could put various summer jobs on my resume which showed I had a work ethic. And these weren’t even internships. They were, quite literally, McJobs.

Thinking about it now, my current job is the only one that might have had more weight on my relevant work experience. The first one out of college was offered based on my potential (and my willingness to work McJobs since I started my post-college life in retail sales), and the second one involved a pretty radical career change – from retail to IT. And, in all three jobs, being ability to think and communicate effectively were crucial.

Finally, considering that we’re becoming much more of a media-driven society with the internet, a film studies major could be very valuable. They would know how to communicate visually!! Corporations, political campaigns, non-profits – they all need to be able to put out effective videos, and creating those videos is definitely a skill and a talent that not everyone has.

I graduated in 1987 with a BS in Biology and I have never worked in any career field remotely related to Biology. I started a new job this year and the company I work for just required a Bachelor’s degree for the position. They didn’t care what it was in or what my grades were. What was most important to them was the experience I had accumulated over the years.

If you’re double majoring in two very different studies that don’t have much overlap with the gen ed requirements, it’ll almost certainly cost you more. It’s hard to fit an entire second major into the allotment of elective hours they give you.

And also, pre-med is usually not an actual major – it’s just a designation with a few required courses and activities.

One piece of advice that I got in college is that if you’re going to double major, you may be spending too much time at the undergraduate level. You may want to consider the benefits of getting an undergrad in one area and a Masters in the other. If you plan thing right, it might be a better use of time and money.

Michelle – I think it depends on the school and the requirements. I recently graduated (Dec 2010 with Bachelors and Aug 2011 with my MAcc) At my small private school I was able to double major and still get a minor in 3.5 years (not taking summer classes) as all the gen ed’s were the same and could be double counted. With the Dean’s approval we could take up to 21 credits per semester. I spent my summers doing internships in a variety of industries for my major (accounting).

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Hollysays:

28 September 2012 at 5:18 am

I second double major.

If she really wants to be a film major, let her pair it with something more practical. Filmmakers still need accountants, attorneys, project managers.

I took this approach when changing careers. I wanted to work in healthcare but did not want to start over with a new degree in nursing or physical therapy. Instead, I took the management skills I already had and repackaged them (within the MBA program I was already enrolled in) to land a great job in my new field in a support position.

I also was thinking that business courses would mesh very nicely, augmenting a film career and providing a nice bit of back up knowledge-even a business minor. And its soo true that what someone majors in often has little to do with eventual careers.

Agreed! I work in the industry and while the more business type jobs aren’t always the fun creative ones, they are the ones that have less competition. At the very least she should know enough about money and budgeting so she can go for entry level jobs that require some amount of keeping track of petty cash, billing, and bookkeeping. That’s what I did, even though I didn’t have any business major, and it’s served me well.

I also agree that a double major is the way to go. I double majored in Psychology and Math. My “dreams” were much different when I started college than when I finished. I am so incredibly thankful that my parents hounded me to also major in something with more stable job prospects. When I was 18 I believed that I would be happy living as a pauper as long as I was doing something I enjoyed. But I was 18, just coming out of my parents’ house and having never really lived like a pauper. I luckily began enjoying math more than psychology so I am able to do something I love every day and not live like a pauper.

And yes, you are an “adult” at 18 years, but that in no way means that you really know what you want in life.

I think that it’s good to follow your dreams, but I think it’s really wise to at least prepare a backup plan and have your bases covered. All my friends that got “creative” degrees are still struggling to find steady work or have left the field completely and are working subpar jobs that don’t even need a college degree trying to pay off student loans.

Yes. While I think the question in general of whether to pay for a major you don’t agree with is very subjective, a good solution is either a double major or doing a strong minor (or major in a practical subject and minor in film). Even if it does take an extra year, or some summer courses, at least that way both parties get most of what they want.

I’m glad someone brought this up — the double major (or well-developed minor) is the perfect solution. I did a minor in sociology with so many classes I was almost a double major (one class shy), and was very involved in the department, had a great relationship with the professors, and was named the department’s outstanding sociology minor, knowing full well it would do nothing to help me get a job. But it gave me a perspective on the world that greatly enhanced my career and life. As some of the commenters have suggested, go with one major you “like” that has a likely payoff of a job or career, and another that you “love” i.e., the “rock star” category and see where it goes. I think it’s the best way to balance job training vs. education for it’s own sake.

The other danger with imposing your view of what constitutes a successful career on your daughter is that parents often are out of touch with developing fields.

I can speak from personal experience that being a lawyer is no picnic. School is expensive, the work can be mind-numbing, and many law school graduates do not get jobs in the field. I recommend Paul Campos’ excellent blog on the subject, http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com/

It may be that your daughter’s choice of major is more practical anyway.

Yes, being a lawyer is not all it’s cracked up to be. For starters, there’s too many JDs, as evidenced by the mass layoffs that occurred several years ago. In fact, I know someone who has a law degree from an Ivy League school and over his career he’s been laid off twice. Second, it’s a LOT of work, and you can end up with some serious work/life balance issues. For example, if your daughter wants to have a family, she could end up placed on the “mommy track” and have no hope of being made partner. So now her career is in a dead end.

And law school itself can be pretty awful. A classic example of how awful it can be in One-L by Scott Turow. After reading that book and taking a paralegal course at a community college I decided against going to law school. I think I am a much happier person for it

While I essentially agree with your point, I reject your premise that parents are “imposing their worldview” by placing strings on their $100k+ of money. I’m imposing my worldview on my underaged, unemployed and unemployable children when I won’t buy them Chips Ahoy no matter how badly they want them. They are obligated to eat the food I supply them. Nowhere is it written that our 18 year old child needs to take our money to go to college. If our kids don’t like the strings we put on our money, (which would most likely be a double major) they are still free to pursue their dreams.

The hardline approach can have negative consequences. What if stubborness on both sides leads to the child dropping out due to lack of tuition money, getting poor grades because he or she has to work 30-40 hours per week, or dropping to part-time student status? It might be better to graduate with a frivolous major than to not graduate at all, because at least you have your degree in hand.

Also, it depends on how the parent explains the reason for withholding the money. If it’s to force the child to think hard about their future career and the consequences of their choices, then I think that’s fair.

If it’s to force the child to conform to the parents’ expectations (“You will do as I tell you, or else!”) or fulfill the parents’ own desires (“I never got the chance to be a doctor, and now you’re just going to throw it away?”), then that could breed resentment.

I don’t disagree, but if the kids go it alone, they may be more independent than you planned.

I became financially independent at 18, living on my own and paying my own way through college. While my parents are proud of me and the life I made for myself, once I turned 18, they were more more interested observers than active participants.

It’s the parents’ money. When you are spending your own money, you do not have to let anyone else dictate how it is spent. (With the exception of your spouse and the federal government.) I like your point – is a parent obligated to buy their kids cookies every time they want them?

What the family here really needs to do is start talking about their plans, the future, etc. Help their daughter gather information and process it to make a wise decision, though I admit it might not be the one they had in mind.

While I essentially agree with your point, I reject your premise that parents are “imposing their worldview” by placing strings on $100k+ of their money. I’m imposing my worldview on my underaged, unemployed and unemployable children when I won’t buy them Chips Ahoy no matter how badly they want them – They are obligated to eat the food I supply them. Nowhere is it written that our 18 year old child needs to take our money to go to college or pursue her dream. If our kids don’t like the strings we put on our money, (which would most likely be a double major) they are still free to pursue their dreams.

Just an example from my mother. She wanted to study biology when she went to college, but her parents refused to pay for it unless she studied ‘something practical’. At the time, for women, my grandparents interpreted that as being a teacher, secretary, nurse, or librarian.

My mom decided to go into what her parents thought would be practical and got a degree in library science. When she graduated, she discovered that the job market was flooded with librarians, so it was extremely difficult to get a job. Also, the year she graduated, the US government stipulated that the Department of Interior needed to start hiring female biologists…

I second the recommendation to talk to some recent graduates to see what the job market is like and if there’s anything that she can do now to get experience in the field that she’s interested in.

I feel lucky we had a family friend who majored in Ancient Chinese Lit and went on to become a major financial advisor for professional athletes. So the saying in my family was always “Study what you love; the rest will come.” I majored in Russian and am fortunate enough to becoming successful in an entirely different path.

Sure, some degrees are necessary for certain fields. And graduates the past couple years have had difficulty finding jobs. But a lot of amazing careers can be launched by evidence you learned HOW to learn. Digital media creation (likely a major aspect of any Film Studies) is increasingly incorporated throughout any number of fields.

I majored in biology and got a job working for the university (Northwestern) immediately upon graduation. They paid me less per year to work in their newest genetics research center than they charged for tuition per year. It didn’t take me more than a few weeks to realize I didn’t want to be someone’s lab slave for the rest of my life, so I applied to graduate school and quit my job a year later to begin my masters degree at a state school in another state. That masters degree is actually what led me to success. I worked in my field of expertise for 8 years.

I too majored in Biology. I saw my future much as you did yours, and I did not want to be some kind of lab gofer, so I enlisted in the Air Force. I found a job I loved and retired from the Air Force after 22 years. Never worked at anything remotely related to Biology.

A few things. If their daughter has been raised with the expectation that her parents would pay for college, then they should pay for the degree (unless they made it clear early on that they would only pay if they approved of her course of study). Otherwise it feels like a bait-and-switch (or, like when you go to the car dealership and think you’ve agreed on a price, and then have all sorts of added costs tacked on).

In terms of what to study in college…most majors don’t lead directly into a career (engineering, nursing and other health sciences, education, and some business degrees like accounting being notable exceptions). If she wants to go to law school, she can major in anything she wants. Lots of people hiring for jobs in business actually look for people who did not get a business degree. Summer and part-time internships can also be used to help prepare for her post-university career.

Lastly, college is about the maturation process, being exposed to new ideas and experiences, making a core group of lifelong friends, and so much more than just job preparation. If it was just about learning necessary information for job prep, then you might as well pay $130 in late fees and have her check out books from the library (a la Good Will Hunting). But thankfully, that’s not what college is all about.

I agree, if the child has been told for a long time that this is coming to them they may feel entitled to it, and don’t have much interest in making sure it is spent wisely.

I keep hearing about how people are having trouble paying for their students college educations and/or they don’t like the choices their making, but this is frustrating to me. I can appreciate that parents want to help their child, but my wife and I both worked during school and I do believe that this helped develop a strong work ethic as well as time and financial management skills. It seemed that my friends that were working tried harder than most of the friends I had that weren’t working.

I did end up staying in college for 5 1/2 years for my Mechanical Engineering degree, but it was a state school so it wasn’t terribly expensive, and I paid cash for a lot of things along the way. I graduated with about 20,000 in debt. This is comparable to a mid size car loan, which a student with no debt will probably go out and get right after they graduate any how.

That being said, I just had my first child 3 weeks ago. We plan on making sure that we as parents are debt free, and start building our retirement accounts as much as possible. This ensures that as we get older we can financially support ourselves and not end up being a burden. Also if we’re debt free when he’s in college we can possibly help with some expenses along the way if he needs a little help, and maybe make a nice payment or two after graduation as a surprise gift, emphasis on the surprise, because we feel that if he thinks he’s going to pay for it he would take more time to evaluate what he’s spending his money on.

I agree as well that if you have been telling your child for years what you would pay or that you would pay, without conditions, you should do that. Having said that, our oldest wanted to switch to a lesser regarded university (for his major) to follow a girlfriend. We considered the girlfriend and her family to be bad news and made the decision to tell him we would cut off funding if he transferred to that particular school for that reason. He moaned and groaned,did not come up with any other reason to move, stayed at his current school, they broke up a couple of months later and he now regards that whole period of his life as proof that he sometimes has to learn things the hard way.

By the same token, we have given our second child the same budget we set for his older brother and he chose an out of state school. I am extremely unhappy because the reason we set aside money from a windfall for their college educations was to help them avoid student loans. Our income is such that we are expected to pay for both our kids’ educations — they are not even eligible for enough in loans to see them through. While I worked, lived in a co-op and got scholarships to fund most of my college education, the numbers are insanely different these days. Scary different. But he has made his decision.

And the next step is the “discussion” my husband and I are having about whether or not we add to his college funds to cover this out of state year (as it turns out, due to a job change, we are now resident in the state he is attending school in and next year he will be an in state student). I say no — or if we do, then we need to provide an equal amount to our eldest (the deal was “here the budget; get your four year degree and whatever is left over is yours to help establish yourself or go to grad school”). It will be interesting to see where we end up (we are closing in on retirement so more big chunks of money going out is nerve-wracking).

In your first paragraph you state that Karen should pay the tuition because she promised. Then you state you refused to pay your own son’s tuition when you felt his college choice was questionable.

Do as I say, not as I do?

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Sabrinasays:

28 September 2012 at 2:23 pm

Anne, absolutely. Additional backstory is that he was in a major he hated (his girlfriend’s father had pushed it) and if he moved and finally decided to change majors he could not have easily done it there. And we had rather decided to make a show of refusing and waiting to see if he came up with other reasons to go there and fought on the issue. He did neither so we were never actually put to the test. But I hope no one else ever goes through that angry teenager with a bad influence going on: it was brutal. BTW, he is on his fifth major, thrilled to be learning what he is currently learning and suddenly getting interested in what kind of career he might make with it.

As a counterpoint, I was unhappy with our younger son’s choice strictly from the finances side (it’s a great school). I stated my case and he gave reasons why this was important to him. I backed off.

But seeing the difference with my oldest getting excited about what he is learning? Suggests to me that letting a kid try something out is great. And with all the major changes going on, chances are indeed great that she will change her mind — but she’ll always know she had her parents support of her first choice (we thought our eldest son’s first choice of engineering was crazy given his personality and lack of interest in the subject — and everyone told us how great it would be for getting a job — but we didn’t want him unhappy every working hour).

But you are absolutely correct that I suggest not following our (almost) path.

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Tomsays:

28 September 2012 at 4:38 am

Well, according to the film and video editors page on the Occupational Handbook Link, they’re paid about 45,950 as a median salary, so it doesn’t sound like a total waste of time.

Encourage a minor, summer work and internships in the industry, courses that teach her marketable skills (like learning whatever the latest and greatest filmmaking software is), continue to encourage her to do well in all her courses and build a strong network. Remember, most schools don’t make you commit to the major until sometime in the sophomore year, so she may figure out pretty quickly if it’s the right path for her.

Totally agree with this comment — especially the part about encouraging internships and classes that offer marketable skills. Theory courses are useful, but it’s the hands-on practical stuff that will help her get the job.

Even if she doesn’t go into the movie industry, companies need a wealth of video content these days so there’s a market beyond one or two industries.

You have to make sure that the major prepares you for the career, though. Most film studies programs won’t teach you how to be an editor, which is a technical/creative job requiring a lot of specific training. In a film studies program, you’ll (probably) learn about the history of film, maybe something about filmmaking, but won’t be able to graduate to do much more than discuss film. It doesn’t mean there aren’t jobs doing that — writing movie reviews, running a film festival, working in a film archive — but there are only so many jobs and they don’t pay well to start.

It’s important for any student to look at what skills/knowledge is taught and what someone can do with those skills afterward. It’s important not to confuse a computer science major with a computer engineering major, even though there are some common areas where the potential careers overlap.

I totally agree with Joe+G. Many technical film jobs are like skilled trades with an apprenticeship model. My husband works in television post-production, and half his co-workers don’t have college degrees. They started in the vault (the equivalent of the mailroom) and worked their way up, getting training on the job from mentors.

Some trade schools offer a few classes, but just because you took 2 classes doesn’t mean a studio will let you touch their multi-million-dollar TV show. You have to build up your skill and reputation over time.

Bottom line: decide what you want to do, then find out how important a college degree is to that field.

When I first went to college in the 80′s, my Computer Programming interests were seen as frivolous by my parents, and I allowed myself to be influenced by that to study a “practical” Engineering field I never even practiced. 10 years after graduation I went back to school for Software Engineering and am now making more in a field I enjoy than I would have had I begun and stuck with an Engineering career.

This is true, and had I spent more time composing the response, I would have admitted to such. However, it was something I believed in, at the time – which is probably little different than the students under discussion, no matter the actual major and what us old folks think are “acceptable” careers. Even if Art is traditionally not a well-compensated career, for all we know there could be some new renaissance or variant that proves to be quite lucrative.

I really disagree that a film studies major is frivolous. Our son majored in classical saxophone performance and then decided not to pursue it as a career. He then got dual master’s degrees and now works in a management job for a symphony. A niece had a dream of musical theater performance but at the start of her senior year decided to major in directing. Smart kids figure out a way to make their passion in the arts create a viable career – or they go to medical, law or graduate school and leverage what they learned previously. There is no guarantee that becoming an attorney will produce a good job as there is an excess of law school graduates and many also find they hate the field. If you said you would pay for college, then pay for it. Encourage her to get as many internships as possible and to do informational interviews with prior graduates in her field to see how they found work.

Exactly this. I hold three degrees in classical flute performance, and currently work as an arts administrator at a major San Francisco cultural institution. I received a full academic scholarship through the Honors College program at my undergraduate university. So did several other music majors. The Honors College had the foresight to invest in smart, capable, creative students was worthwhile, regardless of their major. Some of my classmates who held the same scholarship are now lawyers, some are professional musicians, and some are creating programs in developing countries. The notion that pursuing a major in a creative field is somehow less lucrative is inaccurate. Moreover, fostering creativity at that age develops an entire range of life skills that employers tend to find very valuable.

Double majoring or a minor in film studies is a better idea. I have a friend that double majored in drama and computer science. Guess which degree got her a job.

My parents’ rule was that my two siblings and I needed to major in something that would let us get a job without further education. We are employed as follows:
Engineer (BS Computer Science, MS Electrical Engineering)
Dentist (BS Nutrition, DDS General Dentistry)
Accountant (BS Accounting, MS Accounting)

This. I have a friend who desperately wanted to major in English or theater like all her friends, but stuck with a computer science major. She’s been gainfully employed ever since while her friends either work clerical positions, in retail, or not at all.

Her advice is to make the first degree one that gives you a good chance of finding gainful employment. Your later degrees can be in whatever.

I love how all the posts saying “give the kid the money” are from people who seem young without children of their own. They just might be singing a different tune when its their own hundred grand their kid wants to blow!

I think the question boils down to a moral/philosophical one. Are you willing to unconditionally support your children’s dreams, or are you going to attach conditions and reward behavior you think is correct?

I know it’s not that simple, but college is a turning point for many people and part of that is figuring out who they are away from hovering parents. I think Jacqueline and some of the commenters above have good tips for making the decision an informed one, but ultimately I do think the choice is up to the student.

Getting a law degree is not a guarantee of a great job either. I have known quite a few recent graduates who have taken years to find a job in law- most of whom have ended up in lower paying jobs at not for profits or pro bono agencies.

I think you are sowing the seeds of anger and reqret by diverting one child’s fund into another s account.

You saved the money so they could go to school debt free- in a way it is your gift to them. Your daughter has been a good student through high school so you know she can work hard- please allow her to pursue her dream. She may not end up in film as a career- but her brains, hard work and experience will take her anywhere. I think you will regret doing anything else.

Of course it’s their money so they can do what they want with it…but they seriously risk damaging their relationship with their daughter. It almost sounds like the parents are trying to control her through college money..if she doesn’t do what her parents want they’ll cut her off. It also sets up the family to have resentment between siblings.

I don’t think it has to be an all or nothing approach. There are double major programs, she could do a minor in a “practical” field. For the first 2 years when most gen-eds are being completed, I would definitely pay 100% and then work out an agreement for the last 2 years.

Just keep in mind, people change their ind on major usually a few times before settling down. The best course of action is to give her support, let her try things out and make a decision, and be there to support her along the away.

I wouldn’t hold the sibling idea against them… They are probably just thinking mechanically about what they could do with the 529 money if it didn’t go towards their daughter’s tuition costs. You can read probably hundreds of articles about how you can transfer unused money to a parent, sibling, or neice/nephew. Granted, as many have pointed out, it’s probably not a good idea from a relationship standpoint.

Also, if her grades and involvement in other areas are really that good (and really, even if they are not) she should be able to get a scholarship, full or partial, to help her out if her parents refuse.

As a recent grad 3 years ago, I have to say that a majority of the people I knew who had parents to pay for college, were wasting their time. Their parents did it so that “they could spend more time studying and wouldn’t have to work”. Yea…let me tell you how well that works out…

I worked 20+ hours for my 4 years, and came out with minimal debt and loads of experience. A lot of those people with the parents with money are still struggling to find…well, anything (living at home with no career, etc).

I guess my point of this is that it’s not about the major, it’s about the student. Don’t let your son/daughter laze/party their way through that important part of their CAREER. Of course you can have fun, just take it seriously. Make sure they understand that! If they’re committed to success, they will succeed in any major.

My son didn’t want to work the first year, because he wanted to study hard and wanted good results. We paid everything. Now he’s in his second year and because of his results he has been offered a job as a student-assistant, and he will earn not only much more than a mc job but he can also mention it on his cv. I live in Europe, so I don’t know if jobs as student-assistant are also known in the US.

I second and third the position that a career plan backed by energy and motivation is more important than the actual choice of major itself.

I would ask your daughter to present that plan persuasively and establish a few progress report opportunities, then set her off to do her work and gain her independence without continuing to hold money over her head.

Pay for it. For several reasons: 1) She hasn’t even started school yet. Do you know how many kids change their majors? Most universities don’t even let you declare a major until your 2nd year of school at the earliest. I was a totally different person at age 20 than I was at age 18 and wanted different things from life. 2) You saved that money for her, and you told her it was for college. You never told her it was only for the college experience YOU wanted her to have. It’s sort of like offering to pay for her wedding, but not letting her plan her own wedding. I call BS on that. 3) Film studies is a perfectly viable major if she ends up sticking with it. If she doesn’t end up in Hollywood making tons of money, so what? She can live a perfectly happy middle-class life as a video creator or editor for any number of other industries – educational, corporate, etc. I see lots and lots of job opportunities for video editors and other film-related jobs for PR and marketing departments. Why does success have to be tied to making tons of money or working on famous projects? 4) As several people have pointed out, in this day and age, your college major doesn’t necessarily mean much, especially a generic humanities degree like film studies. It can be applied to a wide variety of career choices, and she can still go to law school if she majors in film studies (if she chooses to do so). 5) Whether you like it or not, she’s an adult and has the right to make her own choices – and mistakes. How will she ever learn anything about life and the real world if you constantly try to keep her from making what you perceive to be mistakes? Not to mention that you haven’t really made a case (in my mind) that her decision would be a mistake. 6) The battle is not worth it. She will be angry and bitter if you punish her for following her dreams (for that is surely how she will perceive it). Is it worth damaging your relationship with your daughter that badly over something that may not even ever be an issue in her life?

All of that said, I do think you have the right to express your concerns to her. She sounds like a smart young lady. She may have thought of ways to lay your concerns to rest, or your logic may make her re-think her choice. I would even ask (as someone above suggested) if she’d consider a double major so that she can do film studies AND something practical if you feel so strongly about it. But if she ultimately decides on film studies and film studies alone, that’s her choice – NOT yours. Instead of worrying about how frivolous a choice it is, focus instead on helping her make it a viable career choice.

I couldn’t agree more with Jen!
I graduated with a Masters in Medieval French, worked in Higher Ed for many years for low wages, made a career transition in my 30s and now have a high paying job in the software industry – nothing to do with my academic training, but everything to do with cultivating the ability to learn and communicate what has been learned. I have found that many employers look for a degree as a check on a checklist – 5 years out of college they are far more interested in what you have done recently than your academic performance.
I also have a daughter who just began a BFA in Theater (acting). She is talented and truly passionate about this field. She is also realistic – she knows that for a woman in the theater, if you are not making regular money by the time you are 30 you need to get out because you are being replaced by younger, fresher faces. It’s a brutal business – but who wants to get to 50 and say “What if?”
I choose to help pay for her education because I understand that a degree, any degree, is the insurance she needs whether or not she ends up with a successful acting career. What’s the worst that could happen? If she fails and starts a second career a few years later than her peers from high school, perhaps she ends up with less money in the bank – but she has a wealth of experience and, I hope, no regrets.
In today’s job market the average worker changes career several times. I know our first instinct is to want a stable future for our children but in reality we are better off preparing them to roll with the punches and to seize the opportunities that life puts n front of them (or that they make for themselves). I hope the mother in the post will pay for her daughter’s college education no matter what the girl decides to study. It’s time to have faith that everything she has taught her daughter up to now will enable her to make the right choices for herself going forward.

A degree in English is not so terribly separated from film studies (which is still focused on narrative, although has more technical elements to it, especially if she gets involved in editing). That way, she still comes out with a degree that can lead to law school – almost all the lawyers I know did English as their undergrad – or a number of other careers, while still pursuing film.

Please do NOT impose your ideas of financial success via a college degree on your children. Success can mean so many things, and true happiness in a profession is a profoundly desirable things that shouldn’t be discounted.

I don’t know how most people parent, but my parents told me from a very young age that I could do anything I wanted to, and to follow my dreams. I was a very musical child, and was given piano and voice lessons, ballet, etc. I always loved it. For most of high school I flirted with different ideas-archeology, writing, political science, etc. Finally, it became clear that I could no longer avoid following my musical passion, and I went on to get a Bachelors degree in Vocal Performance (a Bachelors of Music/B.M.).

My parents cautioned me that I would have poor job prospects, and did I feel it was wise? I said “Maybe not, but you’ve always told me to follow my dreams. How can I live with myself if I don’t try this?” My dad told me later, that when I said that, he couldn’t go back on all those words, and that he had to believe in and support me.

Their assistance in paying for my part of my undergraduate education, along with my own hard work (I now have my M.M., or Master’s of Music in Vocal Performance that I received on a full scholarship and graduate teaching assistantship) means that I have NO educational debt. I am an opera singer, which means I do something I love with my whole heart and pays 15-22k a year, and teach on the side (which can be better and this next year I should do fine with my largest studio yet). So many of my friends who had to finance their entire education with loans now can’t afford to work as opera singers, because they need to find higher-paying jobs to make their loan payments.

My parents’ financial assistance enabled me to truly pursue my dream on a level that would not be possible otherwise. Oh, and even though I make beans for pay, my parents do not give me any financial assistance now, and have not given me any since I graduated from college.

So please, please-if your child is driven, has a passion-please live up to those words you told them. Whether it was an actual promise, or an implied ‘You can do anything!’ Believe in your child and give them a chance! I am so happy doing what I am doing, and I know my parents gave me this chance, through some financial support, but more then that, the BELIEF that sustained me.

My parents paid the full ride for me at a ridiculously expensive liberal arts school (20 years ago it was $20+k/year), and I majored in creative writing with a minor in the middle ages. They’ve since told me they wrestled with the same questions about whether or not to pay for something they saw as “frivolous”, but I can say I’m immensely grateful that they did it.

When I graduated, I wanted to break into publishing, but that didn’t happen. Sure, there were some lean years in my 20′s, and it took a while to find my way, but now I’m a tech writer making 6 figures, am very happy with my career and my job, and know I can find work anytime, anywhere (because I have other skills and work experience too). I also have no debt, unlike some of my peers who are still paying off those loans. I never would have envisioned it at 22, but creative writing set me up with the practical skills I use every day to be a success.

They also insisted that I work during school, and get internships in my field. I was getting a “free ride” financially, but I needed to work to keep the money coming. When I was done with school, they made it clear that there was no more coming – I had to make my choices work, and figure out what to do with what I’d learned.

My parents gave me a tremendous gift, by allowing me to start off following my dreams, because they put themselves in a place to do so. Despite my own experience, I think either choice is right to be honest – as other commenters have said, the college experience is about learning skills for the rest of your life.

Maybe your daughter won’t be a famous director or win awards for film editing, but in 20 years she may be a highly valued producer of instructional videos, or direct an online learning program that integrates video and complex math concepts. The point is, while a major may not directly lead to a job the day after graduation, it may lead to an amazing career because she had the ability to explore her opportunities without thousands of dollars of debt.

I think simply put, this question is a bit more what you think your daughter will be able to do with these “softer” (but highly valuable) skills if the degree doesn’t directly lead to a high-paying job. My parents had faith in my ability to become a success, and I thank them daily for what they were able to give me.

That’s a really tough question! I think the take-home point for all of us should be to start this conversation much earlier! Lay out your expectations for the money, if you have them, years in advance of actually having to pay out. This is a basic basic thing about expectations – you have to make them known!

I actually talked with an undergraduate just two days ago who said her mother was unhappy with her choice of psychology major so she double-majored in something her mother thought was valuable, economics. She didn’t seem to mind the compromise much and actually the two majors worked synergistically during her internship last summer.

My parents didn’t say anything about my choice of college major though they were shelling out big bucks for me to go to a private school. My mother was an art history major and never used her specific subject matter in a job – so either she wouldn’t have had a leg to stand on or she would have some sage advice. But the college I went to only offered STEM majors so I’m sure they weren’t too worried about me defecting to major in a fine arts or humanities area.

I was thinking that, too. I’d be fine paying for college for a child who was likely to graduate in four or five years, regardless of their major. But for a child who’s just going to party and flunk out? I’d want to wait until they grew up some.

In my family it was clear that we were to finance part of our education. I decided early that my passion in life (and still is) was biology. My father thought this was a silly, esoteric major and voiced his concerns loudly. I disagreed and I’m glad I did. While my career hasn’t taken the arc I expected, I’ve taught University and College Biology for more than 20 years and enjoy it immensely.
While my dad’s concerns were misdirected, I was a serious, focused student and ensured I didn’t graduate with debt. I was too scared I’d prove my dad right and not be able to secure my profession. I believe these parents need to trust their daughter’s own good sense. She sounds like a good kid.

It’s funny that you say that it was “frivolous”, because now there are so many jobs in the field that require that kind of hard sciences background that the demand outstrips supply. Guess we can blame big pharma and the biotech industry.

Who’s dream is it? Who envisioned her in a high powered career and created a pre-formed vision of what they are supposed to become?

Yes it’s your money. But if you’ve been promising them you will pay for or support a four year degree, and never included in that promise veto power on the degree, you’ve lied. You tell your kid they can be anything they want, and then when they decide not to be what YOU want, you withdraw support?

If you want, put caveats on the money up front, years before they graduate high school. Make it clear you expect to only support certain career paths and they are on their own if they pursue others. Then it isn’t a surprise when you shaft them, and from their point of view, you are absolutely shafting them.

For what it’s worth, I never put a caveat on what my kids studied, only that I would help for up to four years, and I am living a similar situation. My oldest, who had been eyeing veterinary school year one, switched completely out of the sciences to an english major, then considered an art degree. At these various stages they reached out to me. I always asked questions, tried to offer alternatives, tried to understand what they were looking for and provide options, and threw in a dash of the ol’ “you need to make some money from this, don’t chya know”. Now it’s english/teaching with a minor in art and creating their own, tailored degree with an ever changing title. Despite my worry of a poor choice of major I never once considered withdrawing support. As others have said, half the jobs out there just want you to have a degree. Heck, I’ll be more angry if they get no degree at this point.

There is no guarantee that if your kid becomes a doctor, a lawyer, an engineer, or whatever you envision for them, that they’ll be happy and successful at it. I’d rather my child took a shot at something they liked doing and failed, than succeeded at making a good living but hating their life.

It sounds like helicopter parenting to me. If your child was raised with the understanding of financial support for college with no strings attached, it’s not fair to change the rules once she’s there. And, trying to prophesize your child’s career based on high school interests and strengths is a fool’s errend. College is about so much more than job training. Even if she got a “job-specific” degree, there’s no guarantee she’s going to put that degree to use – especially if she’s not really interested in it, or feels resentful because her parents forced her path.

Honestly it makes me sad that parents would be this controlling. Most likely what it is going to lead to is resentment and the shutting down of communication with the daughter. She’s going to cease talking with you about her dreams and hopes for the future. Is that what you want?

I think the obvious choice is to pay for it and let her major in what she wants. I’m sorry the parents think it is frivolous, but if it is a major at a university, perhaps they are just narrow minded about what constitutes a “valid” degree. It’s not like she is majoring in underwater basket weaving.

Otherwise what’s going to happen is that

#1 You are going to win in the short term and exert your will over her. She is going to major in something she doesn’t like and will probably resent you for most of her life. You might win in the short term, but you will lose in the long term.

#2 She follows her dream and you yank the funding. Not only is she going to struggle more financially, but you are potentially creating resentment between her and her other siblings. This happened in my life when my parents paid for an expensive private school for me, whereas my older siblings went to public schools. My sister brought it up to me for years. In her mind, I was the golden child that my parents favored.

You are not obligated to pay for your children’s education, but you have already established that you planned to do so. To yank the funding now is just cruel and will lead to long term problems in your relationship.

Huh. My parents didn’t pay for my college (they didn’t save any money), yet they still told me I had to go to the technical commuter school my Dad taught at instead of the state university I wanted to go to. My parents also told me I had to major in engineering. It was not up for debate even though I’d proven I was disciplined, was a good musician, and a good student. I wanted to study music or at least have the opportunity to double major and explore my options, but that was out of the question for my parents. Yeah, I should’ve rebelled more, but I was also raised to be obedient. The concept of people choosing their own majors and career paths was so odd to me for the longest time because I wasn’t raised that way. Ever wonder why there are so many Asian students studying engineering and medicine? This is why!

I stuck with it and became moderately successful in my career, but I hated it the entire time, which is why I’m now semi-retired at 42. There’s a statute of limitations for blaming your parents, but it took me a long time to make the best of an unhappy situation.

By the way, a law degree is NOT a good investment for most people. It’s tough to get a legal job, and once you do there’s still the risk of burning out or washing out within a few years. Check out http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com/ (which does have a bias, but also contains good analysis of the problem).

I told my daughters that a college education is like an investment. I made them sell me on the idea of investing in something that would pay off. $100k for an education degree that pays $30K maybe not the best choice. You can make $30k pretty easily by learning a skill with out college.
I also pushed for something that led to a license like, engineer, accountant,nurse.
I always told them your degree should sound like a job.
Another thing I did was ask them to tell me what they wanted their life to be like ten years from now. Once that was established we explored different careers and researched the reasonable expected salaries, work schedules, and locations where jobs were available. Once they determined where it was they wanted to be as far as salary, lifestyle, and location, it was alot easier to pick the path to get there. Most kids pick a path with little concern for where it leads.
I also told them no one paid for my education and I did not feel I was responsible for paying for them to party for four years and wind up with a worthless degree or provide a “college experience” as so many of my friends talk about. It’s an important business and lifestyle investment and that is how I presented it to them.

I love your approach. Very businesslike and very goal oriented. It sounds like their choices were well thought out. I wish my parents had done the same with me…or maybe they did, but weren’t forceful enough for me to listen.

If you can’t talk your daughter out of a major choice like this, you need to re-examine the quality of your relationship with her. Why did you not see this coming sooner? Why would she not listen to her parents? I think that’s the bigger issue.

As a former film major, I wanted to chime in and say that majoring in the arts is not just creatively rewarding, it can be a financially sound investment. We actually learn how to do and make things, which translates to a to of different professions. She might end up becoming an editor, or a camera person or she could wind up becoming a network executive. Yes, very few of my classmates ended up becoming feature film directors, but with the skills that we’ve learned, we’ve all found our niches and are for the most part doing well financially. I graduated 12 years ago, and I’ve never once been unemployed. And I also get the pleasure of pursuing what I love.

I started out in college right out of high school majoring in art. For 2-1/2 years I struggled with it, wanting the degree but knowing how “impractical” it was. Since I couldn’t find anything else I was serious about, I ended up dropping out, figuring I would go back when I found something more practical I wanted to do. Ten years later I finally went back, and majored in…..art. I got my bachelor’s in fine art and have absolutely never regretted it. I don’t work as an artist now; I am actually a librarian. It was the bachelor’s in art, however, that got me my first library job. Once I was in the library, I realized it was what I wanted to do and went on to get my master’s degree. Without the first degree, I would never have been considered for the library position. I really don’t think there is any such thing as a “frivolous” degree. It was the best decision I ever made, I only wish I had done it sooner. I would have had many more years of decent pay and raising my children would have been a lot less stressful, since I spent most of the time after dropping out working in photo labs for little more than minimum wage. I would let the daughter go for her dream.

I am so fortunate to have had my undergraduate degree paid for by my parents – no strings attached. I decided to go into music performance. I now work as a software developer, and I believe I’ve had to work much harder in life because of my degree.

People tried to convince me to reconsider my decision, but no amount of rational conversations would’ve changed my mind at the time. I am thankful for the opportunity to pursue my dream. It didn’t work out, and I wish I could’ve spent that money on a more practical major now, but I think it’s one of those life experiences that you have to go through yourself, regardless of what other people tell you is the right thing to do.

If you have the money to spend on your child’s college, let them pursue their dreams. They will always thank you for the opportunity, even if it doesn’t turn out the way they imagined.

My employer pays for the education of its employees – IF and ONLY IF – they pursue approved degrees. I don’t hear anyone here complaining about how unfair the policy is.

They are currenly paying for my MBA, but would not have paid for an MFA (Master of Fine Arts), and there is nothing wrong with that. They pay for what they value, just as Karen should. They pay for degrees that they plan to get a return out of, just as Karen should.

I’m not saying that Karen should look to monetarily benefit from her daughter’s chosen career path, but she should definitely gain emotional benefit. There is much to gain emotionally from watching your child succeed (or at least not struggle) in life.

I know. I know. There are a lot of unemployed people with business degrees. There are a lot of unemployed people. But I’d venture a guess that there are far more unemployed/under employed people with liberal arts degrees.

My personal bias, leads me to suggest that Karen agree to pay the going rate for tuition at a state university for any degree her daughter wants – as long as it’s a business or economics degree. I’m even OK with agreeing to pay for up to an additional year of school so she can minor in film. If the daughter wants to go to a more expensive school, she pays the difference. If she wants to take a different course of study, she pays it all.

I know far too many people who followed their 20-something “passion” only to find themselves working in unrelated fields. Many of them are working more than one job to make ends meet and don’t have time to pursue their “passions”, which may or may not be the same as they were 10 or 15 years ago.

Why do so many get caught up in the emotion of “following your dreams” when heading off to college? Make a rational decision – it just might fund your dreams for years to come.

That’s because tuition reimbursement is a means for the employer to make its employees more valuable… to the employer! The employer doesn’t care so much about your personal fulfillment. The employer cares about your productivity.

I see a parent paying for a child’s education as different than an employer paying for an employee’s education. A parent is trying to help their child become a self-sufficient, happy adult.

The other problem I see with Karen’s situation, as others have mentioned, is she changing the rules on her daughter? It’s one thing from the beginning to tell your child, “I’ll pay for you education if you major in something practical,” but to tell your child their college education is covered but then to add conditions at the last minute? Not fair.

You can say money rules all you want. But in the end this isn’t about quiting a job or buying a car. It’s about power and control in a family dynamic. They have set themselves up so there is no “winner”.

If Karen pays, she resents the daughter while she is paying. If the daughter submits, she resents the mother while taking a different major. If they haven’t already they really need to discuss this, the mother has a right to express her concerns and the daughter has a right to respond. They need to try to work something out constructively understanding the major could change to something different than either thought would be the case, but a big thing to take away is that you really need to make sure you and your children are on the same page with respect to post high school expectations and desires via talking to one another and not assuming what you say is what they heard.

As a grad. with student loans myself, I can definitely appreciate the help these parents are trying to provide. I am also a strong believer in that parents are not obligated to help their kids with college education. So the money they have saved up for the kid, they can use it as they see fit. A college education is straight up a financial investment, nothing else to it. Once we start attaching emotional elements like dreams and once-a-life-time experience or whatnot, you are putting the education on a pedestal. If it takes 50k per year to get an education on film, concluding in 200k of total financial investment…unless they are incredibly well off…is that the best the parents can do with their money to support something they don’t believe in?

I completed a 4-year degree majoring in Theatre Arts. While I would never trade the experiences I had or the friends I made, I would love to have the $35,000 back. Furthermore, I wish that I would have started on a more practical path earlier in my 20′s. I would have been in a much better financial position if I did.

The thing with these “art” degrees is that you don’t need them if you want to pursue your art. If they want to support their child’s dream, they should encourage her to follow it by actually getting herself involved in the business. Go and work for a casting director, or carry coffee for the second assistant to the director. Go out and get your foot in the door NOW! Nevermind now, yesterday, in fact. Encourage her to learn by doing and watching the pros. That is how people learn these sorts of businesses, how they become successful in these artful adventures, and how they meet the contacts who will help them get there.

My advice is to save their money. Her dream would best be followed by getting involved in the film business. Their finances would best be served by paying for degrees that are worth their money. Not all degrees are created equal.

If she still wishes to go to school, it is ultimately the parents money and they can control how it is spent. I would also argue that if she doesn’t want to go out and enter the filmmaking workforce now, her personality probably isn’t cut out for it in the end. They are not obligated to spend it on a degree they do not think will be helpful to her future. While I would start out trying to convince her to take another course, their trump card is the fact that they are paying. They simply need to tell her that if she wants to go to school for film, that is fine, but that they won’t finance it. This could possibly strengthen her resolve to go to film school even more, or maybe it will wake her up to what is important. Only they know their child and how it would effect her. Regardless, they don’t have to participate in her wishful thinking.

Finally, I would not immediately roll that money over into the other children’s accounts. In a few years, she may change her mind and wish to study something completely different. Then, they can use that money to help her out.

Conversely, my brother majored in Theater (my parents paid) and now has a good job as the production manager of a successful dance company at the age of 25. A lot of his friends with more “practical” majors are still struggling. College is what you make of it.

That is true. College is what you make of it. I have plenty of friends who are making a “living” in theatre. Those who majored in the technical side will always find jobs. Those who majored in acting will not. Either way, they could have gained the same – if not better – experience by entering the workforce…at much less cost.

Also, for those who don’t know, there are all kinds of professional classes that she can take that are far less expensive and more valuable than classes at a university. They are taught by people involved in the business and are usually held at night. Therefore, she can work in the business during the day and take classes at night. If she wants to be a filmmaker, that really is the way to go.

DISCLAIMER: I know practically nothing about fine arts schools, so this may be a stupid question

Does it also depend on the degree program and school? For example, I could see school like NYU or Emerson College in Boston providing their students with more hands-on teaching than other schools. I know Emerson is very well-regarded for the arts and media, at least in New England. And, being close to Boston’s theater district students could probably get outside work in professional productions.

Yes it makes a difference. The difference is level of debt. NYU and Emerson currently cost 56K and over 45K (per year) respectively. This was one of the discussions I had with my daughter who got into the Theater BFA programs at both schools but ultimately decided to go to another school – also in NYC – which offered a better financial package. I choose to help her pay for college, but I can’t afford to pay for the whole thing at those prices.
So we evaluated the situation and decided that, with acting as a career choice and the likelihood of making a large salary out of college being small, it was better to graduate with little or no debt. This will enable her to take the inevitable low paying theater jobs that lead to higher paying ones, without having to take unrelated jobs to pay off her loans (which would take time away from the career building jobs).
Schools with well-known programs do carry some prestige value – but you have to balance that against the cost. To me and my daughter (based on our research), location is important – hence NYC – it is more important to be where the work is, both while you are in college (in case potential work comes up in which case you can take a sabatical) and it allows you to establish a base for when you graduate.
In my opinion, the period spent in college, is a good way to transition into the business if you make use of the opportunities available. And, as I said in my previous post, the degree itself is your ultimate fallback.

I can’t answer for a theatre degree, but I got a wonderful fine arts education at a small midwestern university for a relatively low cost. I took out about 20,000 in loans for the three years I was there….and that covered my daycare costs as well as tuition. Although I am not currently “making my living” as an artist, I feel like the education I received prepared me well if that was the path I had chosen to take.

I just wanted to add – she isn’t in college yet and is thinking about being a film major. How many people actually major in what they think they are going to freshman year? At least in my experience, people change what they want to major in quite a bit their freshman year.

I wanted to be a Computer Science and Mathematics double major. After freshman year I could see that it wasn’t going to work out for me and I changed to Latin and Ancient Greek. I’m glad my parents didn’t just cut me off after freshman year. And no, my job has nothing to do with Latin or Ancient Greek.

I also had a friend who started out freshman year going for a physics major and ended up as a film major.

I don’t feel that Karen and her husband should restrict their daughter’s major because I don’t feel that I don’t think that valuing money over burning interest is wisdom.

Beyond my own values though, the parents’ preferred choices are not necessarily any more practical than her daughter’s preference.

A story: My mother always wanted to be a librarian, so she became a librarian. Her cousin wanted to make money, so he became an accountant. Now that they’re in their late 50s, who do you think is more successful in terms of happiness, impact on their field… and even salary? My mother the librarian.

Another story: My friend started law school a few years ago because she wanted to earn a lot of money. She passed the bar last year. She and her other friends from law school have no jobs and no money because the market is flooded with recent law graduates who made the same assumption that Karen did: law is practical and there will always be jobs. There aren’t. Lesson: not all “practical” fields are actually practical, and there are no “safe” bets. Has Karen done up-to-date, region-specific research before pushing her daughter in this direction?

While the money certainly is Karen’s I think it is unfair that that gift comes with strings attached. Here, take this money for education but only if you choose a major we agree on. The world has way too many lawyers. We need more young, passionate and creative people. And, in the end, if Karen’s daughter is as smart and reasonable as her previous education suggests, she will be able to follow her passion and make things work. Support your daugher in her dream.

Paying for your child’s education is not a gift. It is an investment in his/her future.

The parents took care to make sure they put their money to good use while the daugher was growing up. They probably didn’t ask the daughter where she would like the money invested – because they knew better than she did.

It’s the same money now, they just want to invest it a little differenly.

It’s true that only the daughter can see through her own eyes and “know” what she values. But the parents have the benefit of experience to guide their decisions while the daughter has emotions (i.e. passion) skewing hers.

While not known as a great philosopher, Muhammad Ali once said that anyone who looks at the world the same way at 50 as they did at 20 as wasted 30 years of their lives.

This rings true here – the daughter should use her parents’ life experience to her benefit so that her 20-year-old eyes can see the world from their 50-year-old perspective.

First, everyone who’s been through it knows very few of us REALLY knew what direction we wanted to head in life when we were seniors in high school. That’s normal, and it’s normal to change later on after having enough exposure to the possibilities ahead to make more informed choices. If someone is college material then it’s hard to see how just getting started in that general direction, regardless of pre-selected degree, can be a bad idea.

Second, this is just me, but attaching strings to funds set aside long ago for college just seems… wrong. Either help your kid with college, or don’t; but holding him or her hostage to your own ideas of what career path they should take… speaks a lot to what kind of relationship you want with your children.
That said, I would probably withold the funds if she wanted to buy a bus and tour the country as a rock star, but that’s because it falls out of the “college” degree criterion.

Third, just as an example of how wrong I think this whole line of thinking (judgements of others’ desires in life) can be: a degree in film is hardly frivolous. It’s a long way outside my own areas of interests and expertise, but even I can see only a fraction of the doors open to the holder of any college degree. I happen to know someone (well) with degrees in film, and screen writing. She’s never worked in that industry, but she’s held jobs in graphic design, library science, and now a high school teacher. She teaches classes on photography, computer applications, and occasionally even film. I’m far more the math/science type myself, but I also believe there will always be an important place for the arts in society. Wanting a college degree in film is VERY DIFFERENT from wanting to be a rock star.

“Useless degrees” are not actually useless, and the people (like myself) who major in such fields do tend to look at it as a form of job training, rather than the flight of fancy that the judgment these parents are making assumes.

LIFE ISN’T ABOUT MONEY! If you prevent your daughter from choosing a major because it might not be a lucrative career move (news flash, you can’t predict the future, no degree guarantees financial success), you are teaching her that life is all about money. Who cares how much money you might hypothetically make in the future!

I majored in film and now, just ten years out of college, work in marketing at a well known US company and have a very nice six figure salary. I never intended to be financially successful, it happened because I went for what I loved. My parents never stopped me from trying anything and taught me to just go for what I wanted, without concern for financial matters.

Oh, and during college I realized I wasn’t cut out for the film industry. I love it, but couldn’t have cut it. So immediately after graduating I decided I wanted to do hair and make-up for a living. Ha! I now know my parents were not happy that they had just spent all that money on my college degree and I wasn’t going to be using it at all, but at the time they never let on that there were anything but thrilled for me to follow MY dreams (not theirs). That dream lasted only a year before I decided I wanted to work in marketing.

Let your daughter do what she wants with her life and don’t worry about where it takes her.

I don’t think that a law degree is that good of an investment anymore. Only the top 10% of the top 10 schools end up in high paying positions. Even in those high paying positions, first year associates aren’t being hired like they were because clients are refusing to pay for their time. Big law firms are struggling. The field has an influx of lawyers and not a lot of positions to fill.

As someone who has hired many recent college graduates, I don’t even pay attention to what their college major was. Their college of choice, GPA, and interview are significantly more important to me. I just want someone who is motivated. If someone likes what they are studying they are more likely to enjoy it and do well.

I studied International Studies and French Studies in college and don’t do anything remotely related. My husband studied physics in college and is a chef now. I think it is hard to pick a career for the rest of your life when you’re just 18. I think it’s hard to pick a career for the rest of your life at any age for that matter.

I worked through college, had student loans, and my parents took out student loans. I think that having to bear some of the financial burden certainly made me value it more, but in reality my student loans didn’t feel like real money until I started to pay them back. I used my work study and other jobs to pay for my incidentals (books, flights home and spending money). I’m not sure though whether I could have done better in college if I weren’t working so much. I was pretty stressed out.

My vote would be to encourage her to get a B.A. at a good school in whatever field truly peaks her interest.

#1. My parents “let” me major in French and English literature, and I have always been gainfully employed. An engineering major I am not.

#2. Withholding money to get your kids to do what you want seems incredibly controlling to me. Saying you won’t pay for college because you don’t like their major is like saying you won’t pay anything for their wedding because you don’t like the groom.

Your child’s major in undergraduate school matters not one bit. These days, undergraduate school is a rite of passage, and only serves as a line on a resume.

Quite honestly, it would make more sense to send your daughter to a trade school for a year on your dime and let her work for a couple of years before hitting college. The amount of debt people put themselves into for something that’s only meant to prove that you’ve done it is ridiculous.

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