Boxers can break your neck , knock you out, smash your skull, or crack your ribs with just one punch.

BJJ is a shit tier martial art for realistic self defense. First of all 90% of street fights happen with multiple aggressors. You do not want to be hugging a guy on the floor, whilst his friend stomps your head.

You want to stay on your feet and move around, always being aware of surroundings.

Fights happen on concrete, Which is a bad place to be rolling around on the floor with someone.

Choking out a lone aggressor would be attempted murder. Breaking someones arm would be grievous bodily harm. Knocking someone out would count as self defense.

Only with very strict rules (e.g no pinching or biting) and competition like environment is BJJ ever a useful "martial art" .

I mean, how much weight can a plane carry? Some have a weightload of 40 t or something..Many ships can carry this a tousand times!

And don't get me even started about space - do you have any idea how tiny planes are? Oh wow, your "Airbus Beluga" has a capacity of about 1,400 m^3.. You fucking dumb cunts, the MSC Oscar has nearly the length of four football fields laid end to end - that's teh equivalent to 39,000 cars. Enough space for you, huh?!

Also: what if an accident occurs? Are you gonna jump out of the window and fly, little plane boy? No you don't. You fall to the ground and die BECAUSE HUMANS ARE JUST NOT MADE FOR FLYING.

It's an anatomical fact, faggot.

In a ship you can still call emergency and wait for rescue.

>hurr, durr, what if you sink to the bottom?

Go fuck yourself. Even in the (highly unlikely) event that you're sinking you can still use lifeboats. And even if you go overboard - what do think life vests are for, do you think we have them because they look good?

>>635875Lmao how could I even be butthurt if I've never even tried bjj. The only thing I don't agree with is 90% of fights are against more than 1 attacker if that's true then yeah bjj is no good but I don't believe over 90% are more than 1 attacker

>Planes and Ships are both for the purposes to transfer weight from one point to another. And both have pros and cons.

Were not talking about planes vs ships. Were not talking about guitar vs piano. Were not talking about spiderman vs batman.

Were talking about BJJ vs BOXING, so stick to the topic faggot.

>Can a boxer defend himself on the ground?

Taking a street fight to the ground is a very bad idea. See OP again for objective details on why it is a bad idea.

>What is his punching power woth if he's in a lock?

BJJ guy has a broken jaw/ concussion / as soon as he gets in the boxers range. If and this is a very big IF , he gets him in a lock, that is a very bad position for the BJJ practitioner to be in. Please read OP again for further details, since your memory seems to be quite poor.

>If two fighters without any cross training meet it's all a game of "what if"..

One can make an educated prediction based on factual evidence, available information and variables. If a lion fights a chicken, i'd put my bet on the lion.

>For street fights boxing is probably the most usefull thing to know

you're not completely stupid after all :)

>but if you can grapple AND have basic boxing skills you can just tackle the boxer and finish him on the ground.

someone who has "basic boxing skills" will get devoured by a semi-skilled boxer. As i said before you dont want to be on the ground. You'll get your head stomped in, bitten etc

>So stop your ranting and enjoy boxing.

I am just hoping to maybe have an intelligent debate on the virtues of BJJ in a real life situation. As this thread has so far proved, there really are none.

Not necessarily..Not if you keep standing and the other guy goes to the ground. Not if the other guy manages to bring you to the ground and you want to get up as fast as possible.

And just as boxing teaches you how to avoid getting punched to the head, grappling teaches you how to avoid getting taken to the ground.

>If and this is a very big IF, he gets him in a lock, that is a very bad position for the BJJ practitioner to be in.

Well.. you know why grapplers kicked the asses of strikers in the early "anything goes" tournaments? Because it's much harder to get a solid connecting hit that knocks the other guy out than just guarding your head and run into the other guy "football tackle style" and change the game to a grappling game.

You said it yourself: Boxing allows you to run away. If a boxer tries to box me I can just stay out of his reach for eternity, but on the ground you can't just get away, you have to free yourself. Grappling is slow and mean.

>If a lion fights a chicken, i'd put my bet on the lion.

Nice example. You know what Renzo Gracie, a famous BJJ guy said?"A boxer is like a lion, the greatest predator on land. But you throw him in the shark tank and he's just another meal."

Think about it.

> As i said before you dont want to be on the ground. You'll get your head stomped in, bitten etc

I'm a Judo fag, so you're pushing at an open door about "staying on your feet" on the street.And in my humble opinion Boxing and Judo are the best "street arts". But BJJ is not only about "rolling on the floor" as you implied, they are very capable at bringing strikers to the ground with their Wrestling and Judo techniques. And you can't always choose if you go to the ground.

bjj is fuckin shit for street fights unless you're a gracie in the 80's who specifically trains jits for street fights. sport jiujitsu is terrible for self-defense, as you can see in the vid above it's so ingrained to just to drop in the guard its ridiculous...you seriously pull guard against a boxer with zero grappling knowledge? you seriously cant even double leg him?

fukkin sport jits...good luck trying to fuckin pull guard and berimbolo someone swinging at you, hope you enjoy the hole left in the back of your skull.

and this is coming from a judofag. at least sport judo ingrains good knowledge applicable for a streetfight - throw the guy, land on top, maintain control/a hold, submit...all done as fast as possible. wrestling is also highly rated for the exact same reasons minus the submission

>>635916>Are you a competing mma fighter?I don't compete, I basically am a walking punching bag for the pros at my gym and a trainer for the greenhorns and ams, my job is pretty much to spar with everyone regardless of their level. My gym mates are always pressuring me to but I'm not a kid anymore, I've got a business to run, other shit to do, etc.

Anyway it sounds like you aren't training in either but should take a trial class of each and you might see they're both essential. Maybe martial arts will be a good outlet for your anger.

ITT people who have never been in a street fight argue. boxing is probably the best for street fights because you hands really are your best weapon. all bar fights i have been in were over quickly in a couple punches so learning how to throw punches and avoid them is going to be your best bet. muay thai is alright but boxing is much better in my opinion. BJJ is also good. i have a buddy who is a bouncer who trains it and uses it. in my opinion though if you can only train one for defending yourself i would pick boxing. it is better to do both though.

>>635919Real niggas don't front tbh. I can read your nature and tell most of what your experience is based on almost anything you could say about martial arts. It's easy if you ever made fighting your lifestyle for a while.

Plus, your first sentence demonstrates you don't know much about boxing, and your last demonstrates you don't know much about grappling. Like really obviously. Come on homie. Boxing is great but if you think you're gonna go through life potentially braindamaging everyone who crosses your path then you're not being real about the likelihood that shit is gonna bite you on the ass and fuck up your life. Nevermind the spiritual repercussions.

>>635879>I'd really like to see a Kyokushin vs. Boxing fight, no idea who would win actually.

There are plenty of those on on the net. This is what happens usually: Boxer goes forward, eats a few low-kicks and falls to the ground: TKO. Kyokushin inside low-kicks are the strongest, and if you haven't trained to block or take them, you go down instantly.

>>635923yeah judo is the best for the streets in my opinion. you can fuck someone up with those throws to concrete. for drunken bar scraps boxing is better though as you have a much less chance of crippling you opponent.

>>635831I heard about a guy choking a guy to death in a fight and he didn't even get in trouble. Also heard about gf's best friends baby daddy getting murdered for robbing a guys house and the guy is going to prison for life. Fuck this world.

>>635831>Choking out a lone aggressor would be attempted murder. Breaking someones arm would be grievous bodily harm. Knocking someone out would count as self defense>Boxers can break your neck , knock you out, smash your skull, or crack your ribs with just one punch.nice job as always OP

> "Why did you choose to hold the aggressor in an arm lock, consciously applying further pressure to the point of breaking, instead of holding him or fleeing from the situation?"

> "errr umm err .. i dunno lol"

> Judge : "2 years for GBH"

as opposed to

> "Why did you punch the aggressor causing him to suffer major injuries?"

>" Well i was trying to walk away, but since the aggressor was rapidly approaching me, and since i felt my health was at risk, i punched him once to keep him away, at which point he was no longer a threat i called police and an ambulance."

Boxing gives you no other option that knocking the other guy out or at least break his nose. And if you are a trained boxer, chances are that you accidentally break some dude's jaw and will go to jail. That's one of the reasons that bouncers usually punch to the body (or only very lightly to the head). Because you definately DON'T want other guys to see you punch him in the face.

Now JiuJitsu on the other hand gives you a fuckoad of ways to restrain a person an keep him from moving without even leaving a scratch on his body. You could even choke someone out and there's no way on earth he could prove it afterwards.

Furthermore, you're not the first striker that underestimates grappling. If you ever have the guts to face a grappler on the streets you'll notice that your "I just punch him out as soon as he approaches me" might not work as good as you think it will.

>Boxing gives you no other option that knocking the other guy out or at least break his nose. And if you are a trained boxer, chances are that you accidentally break some dude's jaw and will go to jail. That's one of the reasons that bouncers usually punch to the body (or only very lightly to the head). Because you definately DON'T want other guys to see you punch him in the face.

except you wont go to jail you fucking retard.

video related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHLOtQvS6MQ

>Now JiuJitsu on the other hand gives you a fuckoad of ways to restrain a person an keep him from moving without even leaving a scratch on his body. You could even choke someone out and there's no way on earth he could prove it afterwards.

which is all bullshit, impractical, bullshido nonsense. Those tactics only work in the octagon under strict rules. Unless you want a crackhead biting your arm , neck or nose off then i suggest you rethink your "rolling about on concrete with an angry man" approach.

It's called "force with force". You can even kill someone and get away with it when you can PROOF that this was the only way to save your life, but if you punch someone in a casual situation and break his bones, you will have a hard time to show that this was necessary..

UK: man knocked a 16-year-old girl unconscious in a street jailed for four years>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9892995/Man-who-knocked-16-year-old-girl-unconscious-in-street-attack-jailed.html

Missoury: 20 year-old dude was sentenced to 55 years in prison because some he punched some dude who died:>http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/teen-knockout-game-continues-harm-innocent-people-article-1.1521185

Also:"Some states define assault as the intentional use of force or violence against another, such as punching a person (..) [It's] punishable by six months to one year in jail.">http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/crime-penalties/federal/Simple-Assault.htm

>"rolling about on concrete with an angry man"

No, but you can just grab his clothing and pull him to the ground, land on top of him and choke him or just lock his arm so he can't move..

And if you punch a "crackhead" in the mouth chances are that his teeth will break, your hand will open up and you'll get Aids anyway.

>>636489Because judo guys get smashed on the ground by BJJ guys, since their ground game is more complete because it's their primary focus. There's a reason it exists and does very, very well. Judo is good for the the throws, and its ground work is fine but not as refined as BJJ

>boxing fags pretending boxers can't be taken down and can avoid takedowns at will

>boxing fags pretending the "muh multiple attackers" argument only applies to the person being attacked. Never once thinking about the possibility that the grappler could have 5 buddies with him

>boxing fags pretending that they could deal with several attackers when in reality 99% of the time you are fucked regardless of which MA you practice

>boxing fags pretending that a Martial Art that is proven and effective even with limiting rules somehow becomes ineffective when the rules are removed, rather than making it more effective because now you have even more option.

Firstly , man knocks out a 16 YEAR OLD GIRL.. what the fuck do you think the aggravating factor was here, einstein ?

Secondly, that "20 year old dude sentenced to 55 years in prison" was playing the KNOCKOUT GAME on innocent people.. no shit hes going to get put inside for killing him with a punch.

> It's called "force with force"> You can even kill someone and get away with it when you can PROOF that this was the only way to save your life

lol.. why do you try to kid yourself ? As i said before there is no way you can convince a judge you NEEDED to break someones arm or leg by practicing your bjj on them, when that is the exact opposite of escaping the situation.

> aggressor has knife

Oh gee i know.. let me just get in close range and wrestle with him :^)

> agressor is unarmed

Oh gee let me just use excessive force and get myself put away for a while..... btw brb also getting my head stomped/ bitten/ dragged across concrete :^)

> some states define assault

yes this is assault, not self defense... are you actually retarded ? im beginning to think so..

>No, but you can just grab his clothing and pull him to the ground, land on top of him and choke him or just lock his arm so he can't move..

Once again you're living in a dream world if you think it will work how it does in the octagon

>And if you punch a "crackhead" in the mouth chances are that his teeth will break, your hand will open up and you'll get Aids anyway.

pahaha youre really getting desperate now aren't you ? The likelihood of that is far smaller than them biting you up close when youre rolling about with them. Or just go for a body shot and eliminate that possibility all together.

I'm a Judo guy and OP is either a troll, a massive faggot and/or one of those strikers that needs yet to be humbled by cross-training.

Seriously, even Muay Thai guys I know admit that they only have a small change against a good grappler. It's not like a striker can't win against a grappler, but in most of the time I'd put my money on the grappler.

And now consider Muay Thai has a couple of weapons Boxers don't have. Boxers can one thing very very good - but if you can take that from them (i.e. nullifying their punching power by staying in very close distance): they are help less.

Of course you need to get there first, so of course a good boxer CAN win against a grappler. But if we use some common sense here: I can just cover my face with a simple double arm block and run straight into him. A Muay Thai guy could at least use push kicks to save his distance, a boxer probably can't.

So the boxer'll have exactly ONE punch at a fast charging guy, to either find a tiny hole in his head defense an knock him out OR punch at his body (through layers of fabric and a thick jacket) and hope this will be enough to stop him. Then you WILL have to grapple him and you rarely see a striker beating a grappler in grappling range.

You can see exactly this pattern here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q9RJIje7hc

or here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwwv_gYx0l8

or here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-v3H2Pof98

1) They guard their head and charge in2) Clinch is established3) Takedown

>>636839> Every boxer is hits 100% of the time, never miss, every punch is a knockout punch 100% of the time.

If that were the case takedowns would never work on boxers...but they do.Trying to take down a boxer is actually the best chance a non boxer has. You may get rocked or if you are really unlucky immediately knocked out, but you have at least a good chance. Keeping it standing would do a non-boxer no good

You're right though especially about the concrete I was fighting a guy once and we fell and ended up on the concrete and I landed on my back with him to the side of me and I had my arm around his neck and he started moving around and I ended up tearing all the skin on my back on the concrete.

Went home and my shirt was stuck to my back due to all the blood and that other clear shit that comes out when you get grazes

>>636784>So the boxer'll have exactly ONE punch at a fast charging guy, to either find a tiny hole in his head defense an knock him out OR punch at his body (through layers of fabric and a thick jacket) and hope this will be enough to stop him.

BJJ isn't practical because in my experience the one thing you should always do in a fight is stay off the ground. Akido or Ike Ju jistu would be the best street fighting arts, mixed with boxing or karate

>>635832The fuck is that meant to be? Obviously the boxer has an immediate disadvantage in that he's tied up on the ground, wearing gloves. And you'd think that if they were gonna bother with gloves, he'd throw a bit harder instead of light taps.I honestly have no idea what you were trying to prove with this joke

Boxing ws HYPE in the 60s and 70sKarate was HYPE in the 80sRBSD was HYPE in the 90s

And now BJJ and MMA is HYPE

At the end of the day you can avoid 99% of fights and the 1% you can't avoid are so fucked up and random skill is only 50% of it

>I've been picked up by guys larger than me in fights and slammed into tables>I've been jumped by multiple at once and only made it out because I had a weapon>I've eye gouged and bitten people in fights>I've torn the skin on my knuckles in fights >I've had a metal pole smashed over my head in a fight>I've been thrown into brick walls in fights >I've had a brick smash me in the side of the head in a fight

Fighting is FUCKING RETARDED AS FUCK

Seriously just run away it's not worth it going home and putting an ice pack on your head and disinfectent on all your cuts and bruises sucks ass

>>635908>hurrrr and what? You've gotten up of the floor, congratu-fucking-lations.Not the guy you're responding to, but are you fucking kidding? Being able to get up from the ground successfully is fucking huge. By the own admission of many people in this thread adamantly dissing BJJ, you do not want to be on the ground in a street fight in the event that it's 2 on 1.

>>637803>Do people not realize martial arts can be a competitive sport and have more use than just self defense?No because then all of the Bujutsu and Kempo queens would have to admit that competitive fighting produces better fighters than RBSD LARPing does.

All your faggot marital arts are shit compared to the best martial art there is, and that is crossfit. Who cares about your "hurdur muh tecnique" when I can lift you over my head and drop you on your skull. Crossfit over boxing,bjj and any over faggot interpretative dancing

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