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I just signed up on the forum and am looking for advice on my situation...so here is my background:

Wife and I have been swinging for the past 10 years. During that time we had a 3rd child (much younger than the other 2) that put a "hold" on the lifestyle for a bit, but came back to it a few years ago. The pregnancy brought on many health issues for her, which has mainly led to her being "laid up" frequently and not being able to keep up with me in my active life. I am not much of a sit-around kind of guy, tend to be on the go almost always. So...this led to us growing apart a bit. I'm on the go, she's not so often.

We were openly swinging, but we had never had what either of us would consider a "relationship" with another...until last year. I met someone else about 6 months ago one night, we hit off, and became good friends very quickly. We met at a casino playing poker, and ended up staying up and eating breakfast at 6am. I got home "early" in the morning, told my wife about her, it was all in the open. I kept seeing this girl, and then spending time over at her house, and we became close and started sleeping together. Everything was in the open, wife was very aware of what was happening.

Of course this all made for a bunch of interesting emotions coming up from all over. I had much of the NRE going on that I hadn't experienced for many many years, and it made me really question things going on in my life. Wife was being accepting, and we both loved the fact that our sex life was improving greatly (turns out that poly is great for your sex life) as I was more excited by everything going on and it really made me feel closer to my wife knowing that she was accepting of what was going on.

Then...things got bad for my wife. I was having sleepovers at GF's house frequently, and spending a lot of time with her. Although the time spent with my wife was closer and more loving than had been recently, I wasn't spending much time with her. So there were negative emotions coming out from one side, and positive from the other, and I further questioned my life. By the way, turning 40 next year...looks like this is the story of my midlife crisis?

Anyway, big upheaval, turmoil, etc. from all directions. I spent a few days away from home, reflected a bunch, and wife told me to come home. She said that she didn't want me out of the house and it was more important for me to be home than anything else. No questions asked, she wanted me back. This touched me, and was the start of us growing back closer and we are much closer, happier, and loving than we have been in years. Hooray for the happy ending!

OK...well, that isn't quite the end. I'm still seeing GF. GF was upset that I spent so much time with her and then backed off to spend more time with my wife again, but she has become much more accepting of the situation as well now. If it weren't for this being a new situation for all of us and us all getting rather confused about things we would probably be a lot better right now, but it is a little hard to put everything behind us now as both wife and GF were impacted by what went on during my big time of confusion.

Shortly after re-committing to my wife and moving back in (hard to call it that really, I was only gone a few days) she decided that she was not OK with me having sleepovers at GF's house anymore. This was something that caused a great upset for GF, but I made a decision that my marriage was more important to me than anything else through this and I agreed to that condition. I believe her biggest reason for this "rule" is that she is concerned that with sleepovers I might become too close and entangled and distant again. Truth is we are very close and entangled already, but I do understand that there is a special closeness that you get from spending the night and waking up together. The other part of this is that she would like me to be home with her at night, and it is hard not to dwell on the fact that I am out of the house with another woman while she is laying in bed by herself.

One big problem here is that this was something that sleepovers were treated as OK from the beginning, and GF doesn't like the fact that it was taken away from her. She has "put up" with it since then, but we have not had a sleepover for months and she is not happy about that.

The biggest problem for me in this whole situation is the absolute division between lives for me. Wife would love to "meet" GF, but they never have officially met. She has seen her from afar a few times when we were all at the Casino together, but never spoke. GF has no interest in meeting my wife. She started out being very apprehensive about the idea of dating a married man, but she is OK with that now. But she still doesn't want to meet wife. I am not trying to get them to hook up or anything (wife is bi, wouldn't mind it, but not my intention) but I would LOVE for us to all be able to sit down together and talk.

Everyone is accepting of each other in this situation in that we can talk openly about each other, but this division is difficult and quite plainly feels wrong. I have been concerned about this all along, but hoped that as she became more open to the fact that I am a married man she would be more open to meeting my wife. This has not happened. She doesn't think there is any need for her to meet my wife, she wants to be with me. We have discussed this several times and her main concern that she has voiced is that I would not be the same person in regards to her when my wife was around. I would not treat her the same, and it would be weird for her, and I do get that. Obviously it would not be the same. But I don't think it would be awful either.

Why do I want them to meet? For one, I feel that even though there is a level of acceptance, the disconnect between things is a little hard. Treats it like a dark secret, which I don't want or need this to be. I don't need extra stress in my life. Also, I would like to be able to spend more time with both of them...again, not necessarily in the bed, but socially. They both love playing board games, which I have brought up many times as something we could all do together to get to know each other, but GF is still not OK with that and is put off every time I mention it.

A few nights ago wife and I were going out for some drinks/dessert at a restaurant. GF contacts me to see if can come over. I tell her what we are up to, invite her to come join us. We would both like her to, but she of course declines. I am not badgering her on this, there is no point to do so, but I do bring it up here and there as a possible social connection in an attempt to hopefully bring her around to the idea.

So...is this healthy? Should I say that this is something that I need? I feel that long term this is not a good situation if she is unwilling to meet my wife. If that is true, and this is doomed to failure, should I give an ultimatum? I don't want to continue down a road that is no good long term. I love spending time with her and being a part of her life, and she has been a truly great friend of mine...but this might just not be a life that is good for her, and if so I would rather encourage her to search out a more "standard" relationship.

Ultimatums are one of those very heavy handed and powerful tools. They look like they can do the job in one fell swoop. The problem is that while they might drive the nail, the lack of finesse and control usually makes a huge mess of the entire project.

It's also been my experience that friendships also don't react well to force. Putting two kids with competing interests in the sandbox and telling them to be best buds usually ends up with one or both getting sand in the eye a short time later. Your gf at the very least seems very resistant to the idea... and given the sacrifices she probably thinks she made for the sake of your wife and marriage, she may be running low on goodwill to make such a venture seem like a good idea for her.

Frankly I don't think you have any easy answers to resolve this, and probably have some hard work, along with some tears and heartache ahead of you, no matter what. You need to figure out what you need and works best for you. Your gf needs to do the same for herself, and your wife likewise.
Maybe if you all figure those things out, then there can be a lengthy and detailed series of discussion about what that means for each of you, and if the various relationships are worth preserving, reviving, changing or dissolving.

I'd suggest trying to keep in mind that your gf is not part of your marriage, but she's still a person with her own needs, wants, and will. So like you and your wife, she deserves the consideration of making up her own mind about what's best for her. That may be a more standard relationship, and that may be struggling along with whatever type of relationship you're able to offer...if any. But she should get to make that determination, not have you try to make it for her.

Good Luck.

__________________
“People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.” - Chinese Proverb

Q. Is your g/f already poly? A single person with a monogamous background might have different expectations of your relationship than someone who's used to being poly and sharing. Your marriage does come first and you need time to achieve a balance that works for everyone.

I have a husband and kids, so does my boyfriend. We have never had a sleepover...and it's okay. Though I'd like to have one, it's difficult to plan with two households to consider. I think that in time, it's important that your wife meet your g/f. Not saying you should push hard, but your g/f unwillingness to meet could signal some jealousy issues. I also found that I wanted to meet my hubby's love interest because it makes me feel closer to him and he knows mine. We all get along like good friends and occasionally hang out together for movies and games nights. It makes us 'family', it's a good feeling.

__________________I tried being reasonable. I didn't like it. ~Clint Eastwood~

Sooo the girlfriend was totally fine with things, when it all went her way, and left the wife out in the cold. As long as she (the gf) was on the upper-end ?

Or, did she encourage you to spend time more equally ? Did she ever mention being uncomfortable with taking 'the lions share' of your time ?

I ask this, because currently, your situation as you`ve explained it, reads to me very much like your wife previously gave you free rein, and was very patient while you went through all these things. She was the one doing the sacrificing. You made a common fuck-up and let NRE overwhelm you. It happens.

Now your wife has asked for some current provisions so she can feel secure. You say she asks for them, because she is afraid of distance from the over-nighters. Well, she is right. History has proven that you forgot about her, and were confused. I don`t think it is to much to ask of you, to create some new history before going back to over-nighters. Keep showing your wife, that she matters too. That you are at a place where you are more grounded, and can treat her just as good as the girlfriend. I think it is good that you have had a lot of realizations about things, and want to do right.

I don`t see any harm, in catering to your wife`s wishes, ..for now. There needs to be some room for growth in the future. Those are the kind of things that need to be made clear by all parties. Your wife shouldn`t be the only one brave enough to look for growth in this situation. Your girlfriend needs to give a bit too. While you can`t, and shouldn`t try and force someone to do something they don`t want to do, there is also something to be said, for the kind of character that wants and wants, but doesn`t give much in return.

So,.....you haven`t mentioned much about your girlfriend having any interest beyond herself, and what she wants. Maybe you can shed some light on that ?

In all of this with the sleepover issue it isn't clear what YOU want. There's a lot of talk about what your wife and your girlfriend want, but what is your ideal? There is probably some kind of compromise between no sleepovers at all and numerous sleepovers a week.

As for the issue of your gf not wanting to meet your wife, is she comfortable with you having a wife or would she rather have you all to herself? If it is the latter you're in for issues down the line because that line of thinking ususally ends up in "it's either her or me". If she doesn't want to meet for other reasons it's probably best to just leave it alone and let it develop organically. Maybe they will meet one day and maybe they won't. Maybe they'll get along and maybe they won't. Just because you like her doesn't mean your wife will, and just because you like your wife doesn't mean your gf will.

Metamour relationships are entirely unique. They alse vary quite significantly. None of them are "normal". Let it be what it is (or isn't) between the two of them. Their interaction is beyond your control. You're going to have much less stress if you just let it go.

I think you should tell the g/f that you would love to continue the relationship with her but you are still committed to your wife also.

Let her know hat the relationship with her can continue and flourish but ONLY if she is agreeable to meet with your wife. If it continues as it is, all of you will be torn and resentful which will ultimately end the relationship.

Hopefully the g/f will understand and agree to meet your wife. It sounds like she wants you all to herself and not open to sharing which to you is not an option.

Q. Is your g/f already poly? A single person with a monogamous background might have different expectations of your relationship than someone who's used to being poly and sharing. Your marriage does come first and you need time to achieve a balance that works for everyone.

I have a husband and kids, so does my boyfriend. We have never had a sleepover...and it's okay. Though I'd like to have one, it's difficult to plan with two households to consider. I think that in time, it's important that your wife meet your g/f. Not saying you should push hard, but your g/f unwillingness to meet could signal some jealousy issues. I also found that I wanted to meet my hubby's love interest because it makes me feel closer to him and he knows mine. We all get along like good friends and occasionally hang out together for movies and games nights. It makes us 'family', it's a good feeling.

Actually, no, I should have made that clear. GF has never had a poly relationship and this whole thing was very foreign to her. It took some getting used to, really about up until now, for her to decide if this was something that she could actually have in her life.

It really isn't a good idea to force them to meet each other and I get that, I just feel that this is a sign of her not ever quite completely accepting my life in whole. She says she does, and we can talk about my wife openly, but she doesn't want to spend any time around her. I just don't know if that is a healthy situation, and have been concerned about the long term AND I very much like the idea of being able to have her over for movies/games etc. I like the sound of what you have, and that sounds like the ideal for me. Doesn't mean that is the ideal for her though, and I will have to respect that.

Ultimatums are one of those very heavy handed and powerful tools. They look like they can do the job in one fell swoop. The problem is that while they might drive the nail, the lack of finesse and control usually makes a huge mess of the entire project.

Thanks, very good advice. I'm going to let her work at things how they are comfortable for her. I guess I am still left wondering whether it is healthy for this type of situation as every poly relationship I have read about seems to be one in which all parties are at the very least comfortable being around each other, and it seems that this situation might be a "dead end". That has been my concern. I'm sure there are others out there that have started relationships with a mono partner and have gone through this. The other part to that is that I know that I could spend more time with both wife and GF if they could be around each other, and that I think would be the ideal for me.

Sooo the girlfriend was totally fine with things, when it all went her way, and left the wife out in the cold. As long as she (the gf) was on the upper-end ?

Or, did she encourage you to spend time more equally ? Did she ever mention being uncomfortable with taking 'the lions share' of your time ?

I ask this, because currently, your situation as you`ve explained it, reads to me very much like your wife previously gave you free rein, and was very patient while you went through all these things. She was the one doing the sacrificing. You made a common fuck-up and let NRE overwhelm you. It happens.

Now your wife has asked for some current provisions so she can feel secure. You say she asks for them, because she is afraid of distance from the over-nighters. Well, she is right. History has proven that you forgot about her, and were confused. I don`t think it is to much to ask of you, to create some new history before going back to over-nighters. Keep showing your wife, that she matters too. That you are at a place where you are more grounded, and can treat her just as good as the girlfriend. I think it is good that you have had a lot of realizations about things, and want to do right.

I don`t see any harm, in catering to your wife`s wishes, ..for now. There needs to be some room for growth in the future. Those are the kind of things that need to be made clear by all parties. Your wife shouldn`t be the only one brave enough to look for growth in this situation. Your girlfriend needs to give a bit too. While you can`t, and shouldn`t try and force someone to do something they don`t want to do, there is also something to be said, for the kind of character that wants and wants, but doesn`t give much in return.

So,.....you haven`t mentioned much about your girlfriend having any interest beyond herself, and what she wants. Maybe you can shed some light on that ?

Yes, you are absolutely correct, my wife has been amazing and very understanding throughout all of this. Wife did give me the one rule, and that was no sleepovers. I completely understand this reasoning and I am not resenting that at all. I would like to have sleepovers with GF, but absolutely not at the cost of causing that suffering for my wife. This is her "line", where she feels comfortable, and that is good that she is able to know where that line is at.

My main concern is not the sleepovers so much, except that they are a big deal for GF. She keeps telling me that she is not satisfied without them. Of course this wouldn't have been an issue if wife and I had that rule to begin with, but for GF she views this as something having been taken away from her. I think I need to make it very clear to her that this is not going to happen. She is still holding onto the hope that I will decide to do it anyway, but it is most important that I respect what my wife needs to be comfortable.

As to what GF wants...she wants to see me around 3 times a week and have a sleepover 1 or 2 times a week. She wants her own life and autonomy, but likes the idea of having me in her life.

In all of this with the sleepover issue it isn't clear what YOU want. There's a lot of talk about what your wife and your girlfriend want, but what is your ideal? There is probably some kind of compromise between no sleepovers at all and numerous sleepovers a week.

As for the issue of your gf not wanting to meet your wife, is she comfortable with you having a wife or would she rather have you all to herself? If it is the latter you're in for issues down the line because that line of thinking ususally ends up in "it's either her or me". If she doesn't want to meet for other reasons it's probably best to just leave it alone and let it develop organically. Maybe they will meet one day and maybe they won't. Maybe they'll get along and maybe they won't. Just because you like her doesn't mean your wife will, and just because you like your wife doesn't mean your gf will.

Metamour relationships are entirely unique. They alse vary quite significantly. None of them are "normal". Let it be what it is (or isn't) between the two of them. Their interaction is beyond your control. You're going to have much less stress if you just let it go.

What I would like in regards to sleepovers is one night a week be able to stay over with GF. I am actually not comfortable doing more than one night a week due to the children and confusion and all that. However, it is much more important to me that my wife is comfortable with all of this, so I am willing to follow that "rule" for her to feel OK. It is much more important for GF for obvious reasons though, and she feels that she is willing to give up a lot for only one night a week...so then it becomes a matter of who do I make happy? I guess it's just easier for me to place more importance on the request/demands of the woman I have been with for 14 years than the woman I have been with for 6 months. But I don't know if that is exactly fair either.