How many instructional days did the Founder have under Takeda. How many hours of instruction did the Founder log in with Takeda over those decades? This is something I don't know for sure, am not a historian. It is my believe Takeda traveled constantly all over Japan teaching spending somewhere between a few days and a week or some places a month teaching large groups periodically. Sessions lasted up to 6 or more hrs at a time. I know it is said Takeda was not a personable man. Takeda's Emeiroku I believe records how many hrs the Founder logged in. I hope someone with more knowledge than I can accurately provide that proper information.

If Shioda did train with Horikawa, per the Emeiroku do you know how many hrs Shioda logged in with Horikawa? That would be fascinating to see. Because there is nothing on the net that states Shioda trained with Horikawa, I found from Shioda's school. This is said inline with the fact I am not a historian. Shioda wasn't the only student of the Founder's who I believe made the effort himself, Minoru Mochizuki.

Concluding in brief, in any form of teaching or learning independent based learning has greater benefits than being completely teacher dependent learning. Because the Founder, I believe took the latter approach, and his teachers, is proof the Founder was an altruistic teacher that guided his students and didn't make them dependent on him for knowledge.

It has been a pleasure discussing this with you Mr. Li. Have a wonderful day.

This has all been laid out in Stan Pranin's work - starting back in the 1980's. I'm not going to go back and make the same arguments again.