The Parish Council provides, and empties, dog bins at Gobions Open Space, which is owned by the Parish Council, and also at various other locations in the parish. Some bright sparks have set fire to some in the past - I hate to think of the poo pong, but that is beside the point!

The Parish Council cannot provide bins on land not owned by it, such as Gobions Wood, which is why I have previously suggested sponsored dog bins instead of, or in addition to, benches with name on them. I doubt if anyone wishes to be associated with a poo bin instead of a welcoming bench.

I am not going to apologies for resurrecting another thread about dog mess, because, in my view, the situation is getting out of hand in Gobions.

Unless things changes we will not be walking in the Gobions Open Space, Gobions Woodland, and Moffats Open Space again.

This is for two reasons, the first is connected with the title of this thread ‘Dog Mess In Gobions’, and the second is related, and so I will mention it here.

Dog Mess In Gobions

This morning, Sunday 7 December, we went for a walk through Moffats Open Space, the Leach Fields, Gobions Woodland, and back through Gobions Open Space. I am afraid to say that the whole area is a becoming a dogs' toilet, with evidence, clear for all to see, that a large number of dog owners have decided they will not clear up after their animals.

It smells disgusting, it's hard to navigate the areas without getting covered in it, and it is, again in my view, spoiling a rich resource.

How about either North Mymms Parish Council or the Gobions Woodland Trust fencing off a couple of areas that could be known as the Dogs' Toilets?

That way, all the dog owners who are happy to walk through fields of dog mess can do so in one concentrated area, and the rest of us can walk without the risk?

Perhaps a section of the lower Leach Field, or part of Moffats Open Space could be used? I would be interested to hear the views, for and against, of anyone connected with NMPC or GWT, and dog owners.

Dogs running off the lead

The second issue I have is with dogs running free through the area. This morning we had four large dogs run up to us, two were growling. Two of the dogs were Alsatians, one was a Dalmatian, and the other was a large mongrel.

I am sick and tired of owners saying things like, ‘don’t worry s/he is soft as a brush’, or ‘don’t worry, s/he has never hurt anyone’.

How the hell do we know that? And how do the owners know their pet will not turn nasty one day? All we know is that we are confronted, face to face, with a large animal growling, and one was even barning its teeth.

For any dog owners reading this who allow their dogs to run free, please have some consideration for those who might be afraid when your pets approach at speed.

The worst was just along the path by Gobions Pond where the anglers sit. A large Dalmatian growled at us as we went through the bachelor gate leading up from Gobions Woodland.

It then proceeded to empty its bowels on the path in front of us, before turning on us again and racing up to us growling. We froze. I really thought we were going to be attacked. The owner, following behind, called the dog, but the damage was done.

I have several close pals living in the area who are responsible dog owners. They don’t let their dogs run wild, and they carry plastic bags to clean up after their pets.

This is not a rant against dogs or dog owners, it’s a plea for consideration on the part of those who don’t seem to realise how miserable the dog mess and their free-running dogs make some of us feel.

I love Gobions, and it is one of the reasons we moved here, but we will be thinking long and hard before going there again, especially in the morning, which seems to be the favoured time for some dog owners.

I would be pleased to hear the views of any dog owners who:

a) let their dogs run freeb) don’t clear up after their pets.

Please feel free to offer your reasons for the behaviour below, so that we can have a healthy debate that could lead to a solution which will make Gobions a pleasant place, not just for dog owners, but for the whole community.

« Last Edit: December 07, 2003, 06:43:21 pm by admin »

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Dave - you answered your own suggestion of fencing off an area where dogs can poo. Dogs do it when and where they want, not where you want. NM Parish Council has provided dog bins and empties them virtually every day at Gobions Open Space and elsewhere.

We need to be more proactive and speak to the owner - if there - when a dog does its thing and the owner does not clear it up. Once again the minority spoil it for the majority. Do something at the time otherwise you condone the owner's poor standards of decency and respect for others.

Dave - you answered your own suggestion of fencing off an area where dogs can poo. Dogs do it when and where they want, not where you want.

Bob, they currently do it in Gobions Open Space, Moffats Open Space, and Gobions Woods. Clearly the animals routine has enabled them to hold on until they reach these areas.

Some will have been transported from home by car for this purpose, some will have been walked.

All I am suggesting is that NMPC and GWT consider offering fenced off 'doggy toilet' spots to try to contain the problem. Obviously the nearer these are sited to the various access points to the area the better.

I have to repeat, that all the dog owners I know clear up after their pets, and take the mess home with them.

I don't have the time to lie in wait and challenge irresponsible and inconsiderate dog owners at the time incidents happen.

However, on the two occasions I have seen it happen, and have spoken to dog owners, I have been met with abuse; hence my efforts here to try to find a mutually acceptable solution.

All positive, constructive, and workable way forward welcome.

By the way Bob, does your answer mean it is not worth suggesting the fenced off 'doggy toilet' area to North Mymms Parish Council?

« Last Edit: December 07, 2003, 10:53:33 pm by admin »

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Two Sundays ago at about 8.45 am I cleared as much 'mess' as I could from both 'open sapces' including , quite incredibly , a huge deposit by the gates to the swings.... by yesterday the 'minefield' had returned as evidenced by mine and my sons wellies. It is disgraceful and has to stop. A fenced off area for the dogs is at least a partial solution to the problem.

Call me a cynic, but if people can't be bothered to clear up and use the bins a separate area won't help either - people just won't be bothered to use it as it's not convinient or in the right place.

The only way around this is to try and change people's attitudes to it - I agree when I am up there with the scouts in the summer the problem can be very bad. How we go about doing this without meeting stacks of abuse I'm not sure, but open to suggestions...

James

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James Bentall, Brookmans Park, Herts.I post in a personal capacity and not on behalf of North Mymms Parish Council

Call me a cynic, but if people can't be bothered to clear up and use the bins a separate area won't help either - people just won't be bothered to use it as it's not convinient or in the right place.

Call me an optimist, but I think it might work.

What if we had three small Doggy Loo areas fenced off, one near the Bluebridge Avenue entrance, one near the car park, and the other at the bottom of Bluebridge Road by the bridge, and then had signs scattered throughout the area saying something like.

For those dog owners who don't want to clear up after their pets, please use one of the three designated Doggy Loo areas.Now, if you were a dog owner, would you want to be seen leading your pet to this area? I doubt you would, perhaps you would start carrying bags to clear the mess away? Perhaps the Doggy Loo areas will become one of the cleanest patches of land in the neighbourhood, because people might have been shamed into having some consideration for others.

That is the optimistic (and totally unrealistic) way of looking at it.

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toothfairy

Well, For those who are not familiar with the "Country Code", or for those who just dont care, it says that Dogs are to be kept on a lead, and all mess cleared up.

Surely, if you walk your dog in rural area's, or a preserve such as gobions, you would know these things wouldnt you?....wouldnt you?

As for the scouts, well, this poses all sorts of hazards to them.... as the risk assessment for that task will show...!Faeces introduces possible risks of Hepatitis B, dissentry, and lots of other nasties. And, if you get it in your eyes, (how youd do that though, i dont know) can apparently cause blindness. I would look for somewhere else to get the lads out camping, rather than risk that... Or, raise your liability insurance limit!!

trouble is it says "take your litter home" - not "take your litter, rubbish, dog sh-1-t, ... home"Most paths in the area can be tracked by the deposits of dog muck, and challenged-people just shrug off requests ... ("it's just like fertiliser ... etc etc)

Sorry but the Parish Council decided against Doggy Loo Areas at Gobions. The reason was that it has been tried elsewhere without success. There were even dog fights in the fenced off area. This is a long-standing problem and is unlikely to be resolved because, as stated already in this correspondence, there are dog owners who just do not care about anyone else.

The mindlessness of so called civilised people is evident every day. Old people being robbed, public seating and street signs vandalised, windows smashed, people intimidated, rubbish dumped (Bradmore Lane has been dumped on again and this will be reported to Welwyn Hatfield Council). We live in a dreadful world, and we pay for it, literally, through taxes both to central government and our Council Taxes.

All I can suggest is that decent people make stands against the uncaring minority. It might eventually sink into their tiny blinkered minds, but that may be wishful thinking. Happy Christmas!

Sorry but the Parish Council decided against Doggy Loo Areas at Gobions. The reason was that it has been tried elsewhere without success. There were even dog fights in the fenced off area.

Thanks for that update Bob, it seems a pity the North Mymms Parish Council felt it wasn’t a worthwhile solution. Did they come up with any alternatives? I felt it might have been either a practical, or a psychological solution, which might even embarrass people into behaving in a civilised manner.

I am being devil’s advocate a bit here so don’t take it personally, but you then write…

Quote

This is a long-standing problem and is unlikely to be resolved because, as stated already in this correspondence, there are dog owners who just do not care about anyone else.

So you are saying a minority of dog owners simply don’t care, but then you go on to suggest ...

Quote

All I can suggest is that decent people make stands against the uncaring minority. It might eventually sink into their tiny blinkered minds, but that may be wishful thinking.

What would ‘make stands’ involve? I have tried on a number of occasions to raise the issue with dog owners only to be met with abuse. I would be interested by what you mean by 'make stands'. However I would not recommend it because, as you say, ‘there are dog owners who just do not care about anyone else’. One of the responses I had was aggressive and unpleasant, and this was in front of children.

It seems to me, reading the experiences of others in this thread, that some people are now avoiding Gobions because of this problem. That means that the minority of dog owners, who let their animals run free and fail to clear up after them, have won the day.

One final attempt at a solution to this, but could there not be an entrance to the whole area that is dog-free, and a fenced off dog-free part, so that those of us who want to walk without stench or fear can do so? I would rather walk through a fenced-off corridor than have nothing at all.

It seems such a pity that such a small minority have spoilt it for others by acting in an unconsiderate manner.

« Last Edit: December 11, 2003, 09:14:22 am by admin »

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toothfairy

Sorry but the Parish Council decided against Doggy Loo Areas at Gobions. The reason was that it has been tried elsewhere without success. There were even dog fights in the fenced off area.

So, the council have tried doggy Loo Areas elsewhere, with different residents, in a different area, and probably not a reserve, or local playing area???Also, i'm puzzled as to how the spitfires and Messerschmidts got in there.....

Dog Toilet Areas were tried by another council not too far from here and it decided it was unsuccessful. I will speak to someone at that council to get more detail. In my opinion, uncaring dog owners are not confined to Gobions Open Space and Wood. If a fenced off area did not work elsewhere, it will not work in GOS.

Two other ideas to set your minds working - how about taking a photo of the offending dog and stick the picture on a notice board. That would point the finger at which dogs create the mess, and therefore the owners.

AOr - a friend suggested the parish council employs a patrol warden who would hand out instant fine tickets, like a traffic warden. Would it pay for itself?

The BBC programme was disappointing and did not come up with any new answers. They went to Barking (naturally) where they have Street Wardens who can issue £50 spot (!) fine tickets to anyone not cleaning up after their dog, or for litter dropping. They filmed one person being fined who gave an address 10 miles away. Oh yes?

Welwyn Hatfield has 8 such wardens and staff at Stanborough Park who can fine anyone caught allowing a dog in their possession to foul in designated areas. WH Dog Fouling By-laws do not cover woodlands.

North Mymms Parish Council is now checking out and improving signs at Gobions Open Space, and other places it owns, to make it more obvious what is expected of users of these public areas.

Not directly related to dog fouling, but the council’s groundsmen have stopped several people practicing golf on Gobions Open Space and Hawkshead Road recreation grounds, Little Heath. Apart from the immediate danger, golf balls left behind in the grass can be hurled through the air by the council’s grass cutter and hit some innocent bystander. Need I say more?

Interesting to read that the Herts Co Co Rights of Way Improvement Plan requests information from people exercising their dog and people who jog, but doesn't have a questionnaire for walkers. And there is no mention of guidelines for clearing up after the dogs.