So, I've been thinking about this, and this is what I've come up with.

First, Sam Flynn discovers that Ed Dillinger Jr. isn't such a bad guy. As a matter of fact, Eddy thinks very similarly among the same lines as Sam: information should be free, Encom charges too much, and so on. They become friends.

Sam eventually introduces Ed Jr. to The Grid, a new place Sam created. Much like his father's, except colored like the end of Tron 1. It's alive and has a sun and the programs just *love* Sam and Ed. They play the Games but instead of programs dying, they're just transported back to the starting area, no harm done, and so on. It's great fun for everyone, and everyone is happy.

But a dark turn overcomes Ed. He starts being a despot to the programs; abusing them, actually killing them in the Games, maybe some sexual deviance. Sam in response builds a movement for freedom while Ed replies with his own army. There's lots of fighting and action scenes and so on and so forth.

Just as Dillinger is defeated, the twist is revealed: the programs *like* being dominated, they *enjoy* being "slaves", for lack of a better word, because they're *programs*. Their very existence is to serve the Users, whatever it is they want! That's why it was easy for Sam to rally an army - they're serving their User. "Freedom" or "Servitude", the Programs don't care. They're making their User happy.

What about the MCP and Clu 2? Well, they were programs themselves. They were usurping the role of the User for themselves. That's why programs could rebel (remember that Clu's army was comprised of re-programmed Programs. They wouldn't follow Clu willingly).

At the very end, Sam is about to work in the Real World at his keyboard, when he pauses, thinking if what he does on the Outside is the same as what was going on in the Inside.

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Scuzzy Wrote:So, I've been thinking about this, and this is what I've come up with.

First, Sam Flynn discovers that Ed Dillinger Jr. isn't such a bad guy. As a matter of fact, Eddy thinks very similarly among the same lines as Sam: information should be free, Encom charges too much, and so on. They become friends.

Sam eventually introduces Ed Jr. to The Grid, a new place Sam created. Much like his father's, except colored like the end of Tron 1. It's alive and has a sun and the programs just *love* Sam and Ed. They play the Games but instead of programs dying, they're just transported back to the starting area, no harm done, and so on. It's great fun for everyone, and everyone is happy.

I really don't see this happening at all, look at EDJr's attitude when we see him. He looks bored, he has this smug "I am better than all of you" attitude about him, he talks down to Alan and not in a very subtle way in fact he couldn't have gotten more blatent if he tried. Also look at how he dominates the board, he decides on what they should tell the public, he decides when he's done with the meeting also. This just stinks of a highly intelligent person who knows it and believes that its only a matter of time before he's calling the shots (assuming he isn't doing that already). We know Ed's attitude towards giving things away for free, that idea "dissapeared with Kevin Flynn"

Scuzzy Wrote:But a dark turn overcomes Ed. He starts being a despot to the programs; abusing them, actually killing them in the Games, maybe some sexual deviance. Sam in response builds a movement for freedom while Ed replies with his own army. There's lots of fighting and action scenes and so on and so forth.

This is basically T:L all over again except its not Flynn vs Clu its Sam vs EDJr.

Scuzzy Wrote:Just as Dillinger is defeated, the twist is revealed: the programs *like* being dominated, they *enjoy* being "slaves", for lack of a better word, because they're *programs*. Their very existence is to serve the Users, whatever it is they want! That's why it was easy for Sam to rally an army - they're serving their User. "Freedom" or "Servitude", the Programs don't care. They're making their User happy.

This wouldn't work, go back to the original Tron. They don't like being slaves, they dont like being dominated otherwise no one would have had issue with being put on the game grid.

Scuzzy Wrote:What about the MCP and Clu 2? Well, they were programs themselves. They were usurping the role of the User for themselves. That's why programs could rebel (remember that Clu's army was comprised of re-programmed Programs. They wouldn't follow Clu willingly).

The MCP was destorying any program who believed in the users, his programs were always given a choice "Those of you who renounce this superstitious and hysterical belief will be eligible to join the warrior elite of the MCP" we see this. I think Clu only rectified those who would not join him willingly, don't forget Flynn fought back and Clu fed from this. My opinion of this is that with the ISO's gone and the strain gone from the system that we see in Tron:B (assuming for now this is canon) Flynn created his own army to fight back. These were captured and repurposed and put back on the front lines to fight Flynn, meaning that true Clu loyalists were not harmed and put in key positions (as we see with Dyson and Teslar in Tron:U)

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laphtiya Wrote:I really don't see this happening at all, look at EDJr's attitude when we see him. He looks bored, he has this smug "I am better than all of you" attitude about him, he talks down to Alan and not in a very subtle way in fact he couldn't have gotten more blatent if he tried. Also look at how he dominates the board, he decides on what they should tell the public, he decides when he's done with the meeting also. This just stinks of a highly intelligent person who knows it and believes that its only a matter of time before he's calling the shots (assuming he isn't doing that already). We know Ed's attitude towards giving things away for free, that idea "dissapeared with Kevin Flynn"

Well, yeah, but I thought I argued against that relatively effectively...

This is basically T:L all over again except its not Flynn vs Clu its Sam vs EDJr.

Well, but everyone's essentially arguing they *want* T82 over again with a Flynn vs. a Dillinger, and even the MCP, so...

I can't say I think the idea of turning Dillinjr into a dictator-meets-dominatrix, and then later we find out that "but they liked it!" leaves a good taste in my mouth, however. It refers to/implies/is familiar of far too many social injustices/crimes/issues that I really don't want to see put across as "okay" even in a fictitious movie, especially since oftentimes we're still fighting against society's refusal to see them as entirely "not okay."

laphtiya Wrote:I really don't see this happening at all, look at EDJr's attitude when we see him. He looks bored, he has this smug "I am better than all of you" attitude about him, he talks down to Alan and not in a very subtle way in fact he couldn't have gotten more blatent if he tried. Also look at how he dominates the board, he decides on what they should tell the public, he decides when he's done with the meeting also. This just stinks of a highly intelligent person who knows it and believes that its only a matter of time before he's calling the shots (assuming he isn't doing that already). We know Ed's attitude towards giving things away for free, that idea "dissapeared with Kevin Flynn"

Well, yeah, but I thought I argued against that relatively effectively...

This is basically T:L all over again except its not Flynn vs Clu its Sam vs EDJr.

Well, but everyone's essentially arguing they *want* T82 over again with a Flynn vs. a Dillinger, and even the MCP, so...

I can't say I think the idea of turning Dillinjr into a dictator-meets-dominatrix, and then later we find out that "but they liked it!" leaves a good taste in my mouth, however. It refers to/implies/is familiar of far too many social injustices/crimes/issues that I really don't want to see put across as "okay" even in a fictitious movie, especially since oftentimes we're still fighting against society's refusal to see them as entirely "not okay."

Referring to my first point, when did you argue against that? I must have missed it.

Second point: If people want a T82 then go buy the movie and watch T82 :P and I agree I don't like the idea of them wanting/liking it. It was established in the first 5 mins that programs do not want OR like it.

Okay, so maybe the thing about "slavery" isn't well thought-out. I think what point I wanted to make was that Programs would be willing to do the things that Users want them to do happily. I think that's why I wouldn't make a good script writer. ;-) Still, I think there's something there about the User's responsibility to the Programs. While the Programs love their Users and want to work for them, Users need to be responsible in their use. I don't know, I'm rambling at this point. :-P

Then again, I remember when Tron discovered that Flynn was a User. He seemed pretty unfazed by it all, even a little incredulous (as Flynn totally didn't match up with Tron's vision of a "User").

Okay, and as I think of it in Legacy where Clu has "vanquished the tyranny of the User" and the programs cheered. Oh hell, my premise is probably shot to bits now. Never mind me. :-P

laphtiya Wrote:Referring to my first point, when did you argue against that? I must have missed it.

Second point: If people want a T82 then go buy the movie and watch T82 :P and I agree I don't like the idea of them wanting/liking it. It was established in the first 5 mins that programs do not want OR like it.

First point: Different thread. Thought it was you. Hell, can't remember which one. Hang on. Aha, found it; copy-pasta:

That line bugged me as well when I first started writing about him, and I thought it might scrap my entire idea, until I realized: he's merely stating fact. That doesn't necessarily mean it's his own opinion (although certainly Mackey et al would see it that way and he'd look like the good little boy toeing the company line)... and the condescension in his voice could either be for Alan, or could signify what he thinks of the idea. Dillinjr quite obviously hasn't drunk the company kool-aid... how you wish to interpret that is up to you.

Second point: Exactly. But the nostalgia train has gone out of control around here sometimes.

Ahhh yes I remember that, I just thought it was a point to consider not an end to the discussion. I get what your saying about this, it could be taken either way. I don't think he has the companies best interests in mind, he is all about himself which can be seen in the way he talks to the big boss. As if he doesn't care on the outcome and already knows that he'll get his own way, how he casually makes a phonecall while everyone else is freaking out. He talks down to now only Alan but to others in the board, I can't see him working for Sam I think he'll see him as a thorn in his side in taking back HIS father's company. Remember is was Flynn who ruined his father so I can see some underlying hostility between the two.

Yeah the nostalgia train hits at full steam these days, people want T'82 with T:L effects, well not gonna happen. I would rather see something new and fresh and exciting with perhaps a tone moved towards T'82 in terms of feel but I don't want a carbon copy in fact I'd probably not watch it until it came out on cheap DVD. Sorry to say it but there it is :P

Also Scuzzy, don't give up on having ideas I've seen plenty of great ideas start out as something as basic as what you've said. If you look up some of the original ideas and how they develop over time you'd be surprised. I mean E.T. started out as a sequal to close encounters where the aliens abduct a girl from a small village. A program will do anything and everything a user asks if it is what it was programmed for, remember T'82 it seems that programs choose to believe in users and their relationship with other people. Look at RAM when he talks to Flynn about how good it feels to help people prepaire for future needs and how happy talking about that makes him. Look at how fanatical Tron is about his user and how only HIS user can help change the system, that could be very interesting if say perhaps he wasn't a good guy. Maybe we could run with that idea?

Yeah, that's a better way of explaining it. I was just thinking of two Users with two very different ideas of how Users should behave, only to find that Programs just want to fulfill User requests.

I'm reminded of the scene in Superman Animated where Superman defeats Darkseid, casts his body down from a building, and declares the people free. The people immediately attend to Darkseid, and he says, "I am many things, Kryptonian, but here, I am a *god*."

Now, they did it because they're a broken people, but kind of the same idea.

No, I didn't think it was the end of the discussion-- but worth considering that they didn't DEFINITELY make him bad in T:L and worth not ruling out. I mean, if he has contempt for the company, it might be for the same reason Sam and Alan do-- because he doesn't like what they do. Especially if they DO seem to revere his dad, if he doesn't (and if he doesn't, why would he be sore at Sam for Flynn having taken him down?). He may indeed have plans for running it himself, but not necessarily for nefarious reasons. In fact, it's possible that if he has conflict with Sam at all, it could be because he has plans to fix the company, and then here comes another Flynn who's totally unqualified to run such a place and do a half-assed job again (if you want to take T:B as canon) who will screw it up.where to buy abortion pill ordering abortion pills to be shipped to house buy abortion pill online