Hydro Fusion – Hot Cat Results Not Reproduced

Hydro Fusion, a North European licensee of Andrea Rossi’s E-cat has issued an interesting press release.

Hydro Fusion witnessed a new independent test of the high temperature ECAT prototype reactor on September 6th in Bologna. Although no full report has yet been received, early indications are that the results of the July 16th/August 7th reports could not be reproduced.

Hydro Fusion cannot at this stage support any claims made, written or other, about the amount of excess heat generated by the new high temperature ECAT prototype.

This is interesting as this group also runs Mr. Rossi’s official website ecat.com. Hopefully, Mr. Rossi will acknowledge these problems as it should greatly temper any enthusiasm evoked by the recent release of the report of the test conducted on August 7th.

UPDATE: It seems Mr. Rossi also wished to dampen enthusiasm with this post on his blog:

Dear Brian:
It is necessary that I repeat the following statement:
THE HOT CAT ( REACTOR AT HIGH TEMPERATURE) HAS NOT BEEN YET VALIDATED, BECAUSE THE TESTS AND THE MEASUREMENTS HAVE STILL TO BE COMPLETED, AND TO COMPLETE THEM WILL BE NECESSARY AT LEAST 2-3 MORE MONTHS. I SAID THIS IN MY REPORT IN ZURICH AND I REPEAT THIS HERE.
THE PROFESSORS AND ENGINEERS WHO ARE MAKING THESE TESTS ARE SPECIALISTS AND THEIR WORK IS COMPLEX. FOR EXAMPLE, THE MEASUREMENT OF THE ENERGY CONSUMED HAS TO BE MADE IN A WAY THAT IS BEYOND ANY REASONABLE DOUBT, SO NOW WE ARE REPEATING THE MEASUREMENTS USING A VARIAC TO AVOID THAT ENERGY USED BY THE RESISTANCES IS NOT MEASURED BY THE VOLTMETER AND THE AMPEROMETER ( THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF THE MANY ISSUES THAT ARE UNDER PROBE). THEREFORE IT IS ABSOLUTELY WRONG TO USE THE EXPRESSION ” THE ENGINEERS WHO PERFORMED THE PUBLISHED VALIDATION”, WHILE IS CORRECT THE EXPRESSION ” THE PROFESSORS AND THE ENGINEERS WHO ARE PERFORMING THE VALIDATION IN COURSE”.
THE FINAL RESULTS WILL BE PUBLISHED IN A SCIENTIFIC MAGAZINE ONLY AFTER THE VALIDATION WILL HAVE BEEN COMPLETED.
I AM RECEIVING FROM MANY PERSONS THIS QUESTION: ” IS IT POSSIBLE TO INVEST IN THE HOT CAT”? MY ANSWER IS: NO, IT IS NOT, BECAUSE THE REACTOR FOR HIGH TEMPERATURES IS NOT READY, IS NOT AS PRODUCT, IS A PROTOTYPE SUBJECT TO RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT AND I WANT NOT TO PUT ANYBODY AT RISK BEFORE THE HOT CAT IS NOT YET A PRODUCT. OF COURSE I BELIEVE IN IT, I AM INVESTING MY MONEY IN IT, BUT I WANT NOT TO PLAY FOOT BALL WITH THE BONES OF THE OTHERS.
Warm Regards,
Andrea Rossi

This also raises the question of why not just perform a similar type of test with the existing E-cat home unit prototype? Is it also unreliable? As Dale Basgall has noted on this blog previously, there needs to be a standard apparatus for studying LENR so that results can be clearly reproduced in a standardized way. I will likely not have much more to say about the E-cat until we have more hard data or there is a public demonstration of the device.

Update 2: It would appear that the press release by Hydro Fusion may be more damaging than I initially thought. The Swedish news site, NyTeknik is reporting that a group of investors halted their $62 million investment in Hydro Fusion after it was found that independent measures of power input were 2 to 3 times higher than those measured by Rossi’s equipment.

Here is a particularly disturbing excerpt from the story on Nytechnic (translated via Google from Swedish).

Despite this, Rossi presented a measurement reportSeptember 9 based on earlier tests where a lower input power and an energy surplus reported.

Investors measurement was done on a new model with a higher operating temperature and hydrogen supply other than those previously demonstrated Rossi. Also the method of measurement and the power supply was new. Any independent measurement of the previous versions have not yet been reported.

After measurement, announced Hydro Fusion investment offer withdrawn, and that the company will now examine whether the measurements affects the entire ECAT technology or just the new model.

No wonder Rossi tried to temper expectations, because 2 to 3 times the power input effectively eliminates any excess power from the previously-reported results (which were released anyway AFTER Rossi knew there were problems with the input power measurements).

Update 3: Andrea Rossi has made some statements about the above problem on his blog.

Dear Andre Blum:
I do not make electric measures, I let them made by specialists who are in the team of validators and certificators of the Hot Cat: for example, today they made a new measurement with new instrumentation which, substantially, again, confirmed the data of our preliminar report. As I said, and I repeat, these measurements will go ahead for at least other 2-3months, then the results will be published in a scientific magazine, after the due peer reviewing. It has been not very serious that a technician invited from us for a measure, by the way under NDA, has published very dibious results, after few hours of measurement, whole the professors that are making the validation need months before saying anything. Please wait the end of the validation, and we will also read in the report tha characteristic of all the instrumentation used. Right now a prof. of electric measures is taking care of this issue, and he already has discovered the errors of the guy brought here from Hydrofusion, which we, obviously, respect: errors are normal in our job. Only they who do not work do not commit errors.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

DEAR READERS:
TODAY A BIG MESS IS POPPED OUT FROM A SHORT MEASUREMENT THAT HAS BEEN DONE THE LAST WEEK. I REALLY HAVE DIFFICULTY TO UNDERSTAND WHY SOME PERSONS HAVE TOTALLY IGNORED WHAT I CLEARLY SAID IN MY PRELIMINAR STATEMENT IN THE REPORT PRESENTED IN ZURICH: I SAID THAT ALL THE DATA ARE NOT FINAL, THE VALIDATION, THE R&D, THE CERTIFICATION OF THE HIGH TEMPERATURE REACTOR ARE IN COURSE AND THE FINAL REPORT WILL BE RELEASED WITHIN MONTHS. NOW, A GUY COMES HERE (INVITED FROM US) MAKES SOME HOUR OF MEASUREMENT, GOES AWAY AND A WEEK AFTER MAKES A PRESS CONFERENCE LIKE HE HAS MADE A PROCESS OF VALIDATION THAT TAKES MONTHES: DOES THIS MAKE ANY SENSE? I AM VERY CONFUSED. ANYWAY:
THE EXTERNAL SURFACE OF OUR REACTOR IS 933 CM^2
THE TEMPERATURE WE REACH WHEN IT IS STABLE IS 1050 CELSIUS ON THE EXTERNAL SURFACE. THE GUY IS ESCAPED FROM US BEFORE THE REACTOR REACHED THE DUE TEMPERATURE SAYING HE HAD SEEN ENOUGH ( ENOUGH OF WHAT?).
THE MAX POWER OF THE RESISTANCE IS 8 kW
WITH THESE NUMBERS ONLY, THE ENERGY PRODUCED IS ABOUT 17 kWH/H, WITHOUT CONSIDERING THE ENERGY FROM THE INTERNAL CYLINDER (WHATEVER IT IS), THE CONVECTION ENERGY ( WHICH IS A LOT).
NOW: IN THE NEXT 2 MONTHS WE HAVE TO ARRIVE TO A PRECISE DETERMINATION OF THE MAXIMUM COP, BUT JUST FROM THESE VERY BASIC ANC CONSTANT NUMBERS ( INDIPENDENT FROM THE MEASUREMENTS OF AMPS AND OHMS) WE HAVE A COP AROUND 2.
THE ITER PROGRAM, TO MAKE ENERGY WITH NUCLEAR HOT FUSION, IS COSTED 100 BILLION OF EUROS AND GOT NOT EVEN 1.01 OF COP.
SO, WHAT ?
IN THE FINAL REPORT YOU WILL SEE A LIST OF MANY PROFESSORS AND ENGINEERS WHO ARE MAKING ALL THE NECESSARY MEASUREMENTS FOR MONTHS.
LET ME WORK, AND LET THE TEAM OF PROFESSORS AND ENGINEERS WHO ARE MAKING THE VALIDATION ANDE CERTIFICATION WORK. THIS TIME, ANYWAY, WE GOT FRIENDLY FIRE, IT APPEARS.
ANDREA ROSSI

3 Responses to Hydro Fusion – Hot Cat Results Not Reproduced

I have seen some discussion which speculates that the new measurements may have been artificially inflated by the meters picking up interference created by the resistors, and that the tests will be repeated in a way to remove this problem.

I think that is what Rossi is referring to in his above comment:

FOR EXAMPLE, THE MEASUREMENT OF THE ENERGY CONSUMED HAS TO BE MADE IN A WAY THAT IS BEYOND ANY REASONABLE DOUBT, SO NOW WE ARE REPEATING THE MEASUREMENTS USING A VARIAC TO AVOID THAT ENERGY USED BY THE RESISTANCES IS NOT MEASURED BY THE VOLTMETER AND THE AMPEROMETER ( THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF THE MANY ISSUES THAT ARE UNDER PROBE).

This to me seems like not that big of news, regarding the millions in investment, they are simply claims and writings. It may be possible those investors have already invested money. That money never dictates a final working product.

More important in my view was the live show in Zurich by Mr. Rossi. He appears to have a sense of humor in this meeting and deliverd his talk respectfully.

Inventors do that when they finally realise that what they had thought was so great in their invention for themselves now has a few obvious contradictions, to the operation of the product in the eyes of the CEO and other investors such as customers.

Mr. Rossi has most likely known this for quite some time, a glitch, not that hard to work or explain around for him. He most likely knows for sure this invention of his will be made to work as he contemplates it should.

So even though the investment of millions has been halted, as soon as the thing get’s dialed in by Mr. Rossi he will simply re test and the investments will go on.

In the U.S. and for what’s on the intranet as far as posters on LENR sites, it seemed to me there were not that many persons interested. I was really enlightened at how many people actually support research in the LENR field after I had watched the conference videos. The exciting part is the research, trial and error period that is just beginning in this technology some are terming as LENR.