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Thursday, January 31, 2013

Gold star sociopath?

When people ask me for recommendations of what to read/watch to understand sociopaths better, I tell them, among other things, the film The Woodsman with Kevin Bacon. In it he plays a "recovering" pedophile who struggles with his urges as he tries to form a "normal" romantic attachment with a woman and stumbles upon another predator like himself. Un-acted upon pedaphilia was recently addressed in a Dan Savage column. when I read it, for "pedophile," I substituted "sociopath," for "sexual attraction to children," I substituted ...

Let's say, theoretically, I'm a pedophile.

I'm not stupid or evil, so I'm not gonna DO anything. I'm not even gonna look at porn, because the production of it involves child exploitation. I don't even look at kids in public places.

So what the fuck should I do? Chemical castration? But I haven't DONE anything and I don't plan to. Am I obliged to tell anyone? Good way to lose friends. Can I keep babysitting my friends' kids when they need a hand? After all, if I were into adult women, people wouldn't see anything wrong with leaving me alone with a couple of those.

What the fuck do I do? Live alone and hope Japan starts producing affordable sexbots before I'm too old to care?

You know, theoretically. If I were a pedophile.

Knows It's Wrong

"My heart goes out to people to whom nature has given something as powerful and as distracting as a sex drive and no healthy way to express it," says Dr. James Cantor, a psychologist and the editor in chief of the research journal Sexual Abuse. "Pedophiles are not the only folks in this position, but they are by far the most demonized, regardless of whether they have ever actually caused anyone any kind of harm."

My heart is going out to you, too. As I've written before, we should acknowledge the existence of "good pedophiles," people like you, KIW, who are burdened with a sexual interest in children but who possess the moral sense to resist acting on that interest. It's a lifelong struggle for "good pedophiles," and most manage to succeed without any emotional support—to say nothing of credit—whatsoever.

Unfortunately, science doesn't know much about pedophiles like you, pedophiles who haven't done anything, because the social stigma is so great that most nonoffending pedophiles never seek treatment. And what research has been done, says Cantor, isn't very encouraging if you're looking to free yourself from your attraction to children.

"There is no known way of turning a pedophile into a nonpedophile," says Cantor. "The best we can do is help a person maximize their self-control and to help them build an otherwise happy and productive life."

"It is true that a regular heterosexual man is not going to commit an offense against every woman he finds attractive. However, most women are capable of recognizing when an interaction is just starting to go south and of getting out of the situation. Most children are not. So although there is every reason to believe that there exist cats that can successfully be in charge of the canary, it's not a very good idea for the cat to be the one making that call."

"I wish I had better news," concludes Cantor. "I also wish that more people did good research on this so that one day I could have better news to give."

The money quote for me: "Unfortunately, science doesn't know much about pedophiles like you, pedophiles who haven't done anything, because the social stigma is so great that most nonoffending pedophiles never seek treatment."

100 comments:

"Unfortunately, science doesn't know much about pedophiles like you, pedophiles who haven't done anything, because the social stigma is so great that most nonoffending pedophiles never seek treatment."

Incredibly apt quote. As someone who very much assumes they are a psychopath/sociopath I can identify with this completely. I don't think I'm 'bad' or 'evil' but I understand that the science is based almost entirely on criminals (indeed, mostly violent criminals) so the idea of seeking treatment - or even confiding in my friends or family - seems ludicrous.

I'm the sort of guy that will reach over the counter at Starbucks to grab a stopper if the barista is busy. I'm not supposed to do it. I know it, they know it. I'm just not willing/able to wait every time.

This is how I regularly get in trouble; sometimes you push it a little too far, and then people get really bent out of shape.

"if a 'good' paedophile created a blog glamourizing paedophilia, bragging of his personal exploits, and deriding victims of paedophilia...wouldn't he be, by definition, a bad paedophile?

Actions and intent to cause harm are all that matter in the eyes of the law. Everything else resides within the right to free speech.

The morality of such thoughts, however, may differ, but that is highly subjective. Whether you consider him "good" or "bad" is your own decision; the law is not meant to make judgment based on subjective moralities.

i thought about doing a website where people like 'us' can express ourselves.... but i figure it would be over run with idiocy and may even cause some legal issues... plus i think most hosting programs would find a pro sociopath website in violations of the 'terms of service'

If by "thick" you mean "realistic" then by all means, yes :) I'm only regurgitating the general consensus of my colleagues, so that must mean you find most law school students to be thick then, does it not?

"i thought about doing a website where people like 'us' can express ourselves.... but i figure it would be over run with idiocy and may even cause some legal issues... plus i think most hosting programs would find a pro sociopath website in violations of the 'terms of service'

Ishtar, I think you missed the part where anon said, "bragging of his personal exploits." Using the pedophilia comparison, that's the equivalent to M.E. bragging about raping children and going into great detail about how to lure them in, etc. You might want to rethink your position.

I identify with this post completely. I have something of a lolita fetish. I went as far as to seek out not just pictures of underage girls naked, but wanted to find true child porn. I did. I can't unsee it. When I got to that point and found what I wanted to, and did what I wanted to do with it though, I felt profound remorse, and haven't returned since. I remember being alone in a room with a young girl, and thought, what if I touched her? But couldn't bring myself to do it.

Exactly as the article says, I would never admit this to anyone in real life. Even a counselor may have a hard time keeping a secret if I admitted to committing a crime.

It's a mental burden at times but all I can do is never return, something that is very easy for sociopaths, fortunately, once they are convinced (like I am) that what they were doing was wrong.

I can remember, when I was 15 or so, having the impulse to explore a child (3-years old) that was visiting. I didn't do anything. It didn't take a lot of willpower to avoid.

At the same time in my life, I was regularly snooping and doing other antisocial things.

My guess looking back is that if I'd been really turned on by kids, there would have been no stopping me. I would have exploited the kid, and it probably would have gone South from there; I would have become, step-by-step, the sort of plotting, scheming pedophiles that you read about in the paper.

As a psycho, I can imagine coming down on pedophiles hard. E.g. if we as a society decide on a no-tolerance for pedos, I'd see nothing wrong with us having weekly or monthly sessions where we'd torture convicted pedophiles to death. We'd simulcast, webcast and broadcast their week-long torture-to-death sessions.

At the same time, I recognize that it would be "unfair" to do that, in the sense that the pedos are really starting with a shitty hand. But nature isn't fair, right?

My ex bf turned out to be a nasty, ever increasing in evil, sociopath.Before I was completely sure of his diagnosis I used to demand some explanations for whatever or why he was up to that whatever was negative action(s).. He never had any humanly comprehensible answer to share. After a time it started to occur to me. that his answer or admittions were possibly be far worse.That is than any accusations I could infer from the limited replies or "no comment(s)".

By the time we had ended I knew what he was for certain ( even medically diagnosed at one point). and then in reflection the predicament he had been in. That is in ever explainimg himself!

This man was such a petty nasty evil thing that no sympathy for this devil is needed.He'd make me pay plus a hefty interest rate for whatever unease he was put through.The one point none of you made was that there are so many people who prefer playing the three blind monkeys rather than face real unpleasant facts about some peoples capacity to contain the framework as well as do seriously harmful and hurtful things. And some are just not like the rest of well intended moral mostly people.Hence both the sociopath and pedophile can often say or do actions that reveal them and for a large share of this without reprecussion in the mainstream world. Most people can't readily process the negativity of pedophiles or sociopaths much less want to. Unless they are a repeat victim of either of these two they will actualy do the initial excuse making and denails with or for the pedophile and sociopath.

As a social worker I believe it would be great if the more insightful sociopaths and pedophiles could be counted and indicate that these conditions can still encompass some intelligence and constraint over some of their traits.

Currently we mostly only know about the uncontrolled idiot worse end of the spectrum of these conditions. Nor do the weaker chaotic sociopaths and pedophiles as well as many councellors realise it is possible to be more functionaly constrained

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Pedophile is probably the only label more pejorative than psychopath. Both conditions are not chosen by the person who has them. A person should be judged by their actions rather than their potential for such action.

I agree that a person should be judged by their actions alone. The problem seems to me that people who are dramatically different from the normal folk crave understanding from others. The stress of wearing the mask all the time and never being able to talk about why you wear it causes some folks to embrace their darker side and lash out (overtly or covertly) against the very people with whom they wish to connect.

For MyMind ( from yesterday)You asked about how I would categorize what you said. I do not believe in categories. I think that they are artificial boxes, made for the ease of the Western mind. There is some use for them, as they do put similar symptoms into one box. However, there is a lot of harm done, too.

Western society wants to categorize things, fast and treat things fast, as with drugs and therapy which is once a week, at best, so not really a heartfelt relationship, imo, even though people like to say, otherwise.

To me, a person, such as you is a complicated and many layered being. To put you into any box is a disservice to you. However, what does one do with the "symptoms"?

I believe in Right Brain Trauma theory. You can look it up. It helps the person empty out his pain tank which is memories stored in the right side of the brain, which is not intellectual or verbal. Hence, talk therapy will not work. Intellectual understanding will not mitigate the symptoms. One must cry and grieve one's life. This will empty the pain tank and THEN true intellectual understanding will be possible. The objective is to be able to feel again. Feeling is lost from abuse.

I love categories, systems and so on.To me, they make live much easier (in pratical terms), also it's really satisfying to, for example, figure out a new system. But i know that it's not possible to categorize everything, and sometimes this really pisses me off.

I don't think i need to be healed/should be healed, actually i often think that rather emotional/dumb people should be healed. Beside some things i really like my brain the way it is.

Im not really understanding how you sociopaths are having moral objections here. Is this this the one and only issue that sparks your conscience and how did you come to the decision that its wrong? I understand that you might not be attracted to them but why do you care about them being abused?

My wish would be to have my mind back, pristine, before the alien(s) stole it. They took me up to the ship and did surgery on me. YES, I got pregnant and had an alien child, a misfit with a grotesque head. Did I love it? No, but I kept it. I fed it and nurtured it, but it turned on me. You can never trust aliens. So, I sit trying to figure out the mechanics of the situation, mainly how to throw it out in the garbage, the way they do tumors or other disgusting things.

I walk on slats. They are uneven and pose all sorts of problems. Heck, I could get a splinter, if I went barefoot. I get screwed, even walking with shoes. It is a mess. I want to take those slats and manually make them even. I could get down on my hands and knees and level them. I have not tired, for some odd reason. It would have to be an odd reason because it is obvious. At times like this, people look at me like I am weird. I save jars. I like them because they are free and I can use them and throw them out. I can put water in them and take them to a restaurant and leave them there. One day, a waiter came running out to tell me I forgot something. My cleaning lady, who does not speak English, looks at the jars and looks at me. I say I have problemas in la mente.

I love categories, systems and so on... it's really satisfying to, for example, figure out a new system. But i know that it's not possible to categorize everything, and sometimes this really pisses me off.

The sentiments you express in the quote are typical of someone with Asperger's syndrome. As is a lack of empathy and emotional complexity. I'm not saying you're an aspie but you're sure sounding like one.

The reason I don't go telling people I'm a sociopath is precisely because they would think I'm crazy for the rest of my life and they would analyze every detail of my behavior. No thanks. I'll stick to the quiet manipulation and leave them wondering rather than knowing.

Oh yeah! The mind games are so entertaining! I actually did tell my sister and gave examples of why I'm a sociopath. I let he ask me questions and i answered them honestly. Later on I claimed I was acting.. I do this all the time with her. Sometimes when I'm talking to her, l'll be honest about my lack of feelings, etc and others i will act like an empath. I don't think she knows what to believe. It's better this way because I told her the truth and I get to manipulate her.

eh not anxious if that's what you're asking. I dunno, I act pretty chill most of the time. I guess I'm a little tense tense inside because I have to focus on keeping up appearances and acting like a normal person.

ah k. yeah, i kinda meant it that way. i don't really have that "problem". the only things that make me tense while acting is stupidity and/or stupid emotionality. these two things always wake the urge in me, to say something hurting or to switch my whole personality. many people look like they got hit by a truck if you do that... let's say you switch from very kind and normal/shy to....yeah.... insane and unpredictable in less than a second. i love it.

Oh yeah, that too. Emotion drives me off the wall. It makes me want to switch my personality too. I've gotten pretty good at controlling myself, but sometimes it's more difficult. On the subject of emotion, do you get irritated and annoyed while watching emotional movies? Sometimes I think it's hilarious and other times I think it's fucking annoying

That depends fully on the movie. There are some movies that i can't watch because there's one character that drives me crazy. A good example for that is "Hangover", 5 minutes of this fat guy, and i want to murder someone. He doesn't just annoy me, he makes me really angry.

A whole other story are, for example, movies like "The Green Mile" which move me sometimes. But most of the time watching an emotional movie is just like drinking water. You consume it, but you do not taste anything.

Wow, that's a perfect analogy! Yeah I'm like that too for certain emotional movies. I also find some supposively depressing things to be amusing. For example, Breaking Bad. Everyone I know calls it "depressing" and "sad" but I think it's absolutely hilarious

AnonymousJanuary 27, 2013 at 1:47 AMI have things like love that I worry about. I want to not care anymore whether I am loved and I do not want to care anymore if I am "good"or acceptable or going to succeed. I just do not want these ideas in my head anymore.

It requires what you say. I will not change into you no matter how much i want. I have to live with who I am and just try to look in the mirror and say is good enough.

AnonymousJanuary 27, 2013 at 1:47 AMI have things like love that I worry about. I want to not care anymore whether I am loved and I do not want to care anymore if I am "good"or acceptable or going to succeed. I just do not want these ideas in my head anymore.

It requires what you say. I will not change into you no matter how much i want. I have to live with who I am and just try to look in the mirror and say is good enough.

This is a topic I am not ready for yet.

just follow your own path

ZoeJanuary 31, 2013 at 12:27 PM

AnonymousJanuary 27, 2013 at 1:47 AMI have things like love that I worry about. I want to not care anymore whether I am loved and I do not want to care anymore if I am "good"or acceptable or going to succeed. I just do not want these ideas in my head anymore.

It requires what you say. I will not change into you no matter how much i want. I have to live with who I am and just try to look in the mirror and say is good enough.

This is a topic I am not ready for yet.

just follow your own path

ZoeJanuary 31, 2013 at 12:27 PM

AnonymousJanuary 27, 2013 at 1:47 AMI have things like love that I worry about. I want to not care anymore whether I am loved and I do not want to care anymore if I am "good"or acceptable or going to succeed. I just do not want these ideas in my head anymore.

It requires what you say. I will not change into you no matter how much i want. I have to live with who I am and just try to look in the mirror and say is good enough.

This is a topic I am not ready for yet.

just follow your own path

ZoeJanuary 31, 2013 at 12:27 PM

AnonymousJanuary 27, 2013 at 1:47 AMI have things like love that I worry about. I want to not care anymore whether I am loved and I do not want to care anymore if I am "good"or acceptable or going to succeed. I just do not want these ideas in my head anymore.

It requires what you say. I will not change into you no matter how much i want. I have to live with who I am and just try to look in the mirror and say is good enough.

This is a topic I am not ready for yet.

just follow your own path

ZoeJanuary 31, 2013 at 12:27 PM

AnonymousJanuary 27, 2013 at 1:47 AMI have things like love that I worry about. I want to not care anymore whether I am loved and I do not want to care anymore if I am "good"or acceptable or going to succeed. I just do not want these ideas in my head anymore.

It requires what you say. I will not change into you no matter how much i want. I have to live with who I am and just try to look in the mirror and say is good enough.

The first last and only step to beating a sociopath is not letting on that you know what they are. The rest is just feeding their illusion"loled hard some ppl stil don't know the diferance between narc and sociopath

I have a question for anyone: I saw the movie "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo" some time back and after just one viewing (15 seconds) I was able to determine that Christopher Plummer was the serial killer. This happens frequently. Why? Anyone else?

Could there be some person who was born a worthless piece of shit? You think about if some person could be a mistake, at the essential level. They could be a mistake, to us, as humans. Something could have gone wrong with them, such as a defect, but no one could be a total mistake. I don't think it exists.

Shame is an awful pain, like psychic lightning. It is all an effing lie, on top of it. It is the lie that you are worthless down to the cell or quark. It is quite amazing, the lengths we can go to, in our believing of lies. You can go to death, if not a fast death, a slow one. It is all because you believe something that is about as fucking untrue as Chicken Little coming to life and dancing, in the raw, with his hairy, skinny chicken legs.

The feeling of shame is like dissolving. It is like what happens when you make split pea soup. At some point, they go from discrete beans to completely smooth. Shame doesn't really transform. It goes from icky to horrible. Then, you wait until you can get back to your normal state, which may, still, be some sort of fog.

I grew up with shame surrounding me like cloying perfume. I hate perfume, especially if it is heavy like Estee Lauder. You want to smash the woman in the face who bathes in that stuff. But, shame sticks to you in the same way. It goes in every pore.

My friend's father covered him in deodorant. His father said he was dirty. My friend had de-realization. The street was not real, when he drove his car. What could be true about a kid being so dirty that he had to be covered in deodorant? It was not my friend's fault, but he took it on, like perfume invading every pore, until you reek.

I really like both kinds, Sofa. I think you should do whatever form it comes to you in at that time. Screw the audience if it's not to their preference. I think you are more effective when you're not concerned with how it will be received.

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Of course, my default is still to intuitively analyze every outcome and situation and achieve the best result, but it's more interesting to let people remain a variable and go in their own direction, rather than nudging them in the direction I prefer. Interacting with people WITHOUT trying to control them is a new paradigm for me.