Archived Thread

Help me understand this - Barden

In week 3 last season, Ramses Barden stepped up and gained 138 receiving yards against Carolina. It seems there is so much potential with him. Why did he not get more opportunities during the 2012 season? Was he injured, or does the coaching staff just not believe in him? Barden is barely mentioned in the wide receiver conversations. I have a hard time judging players whose stats are low, (ie receiving yards) when they had little or no opportunities to perform. thanks, Greg

At least give the guy credit for what he does. It is not like Barden flat out sucks and is incapable of playing well without their being some reason why it was not legit. He has shown flashes at other times as well -he dominated in the Chicago preseason game last year as well.

The problem is there are certain areas in his game he has not shown consistency with, namely press coverage.

Right now we are looking at Stevie Brown and Andre Brown, both guys cut from other teams, as potential starters. It is not a given Barden is done in this league and there is a reason they brought him back -he is better than tail end of the team's WR roster.

If he were an undrafted guy instead of a 3rd round pick this place would have a much different outlook on him. The fact is, people here love undrafted guys and make anyone that shows a hint of promis to be potential superstars, and guys who are drafted high who do not live up to their draft status are made out to be worthless junk. In many cases, nother is reality.

For whatever reason, most folks can't grasp that every year, the team will keep 6 or 7 receivers on the roster for the purpose of depth and that despite our fondest wishes, not all of them can be Pro Bowl caliber. Someone ALWAYS has to be depth and that someone ALWAYS seems to get picked on by BBI.

The Nicks injury caused the Giants to lose speed on the edge. Barden helped in some games, but without Nicks, you needed to eventually get speed on the outside. Teams were collapsing in Cruz and Hixon. That is where Randle came in. Barden before and after was never more than the 4th WR and maybe 5th.

Based on that, how much production should he have. The offense last year was not a 3 WR base offense. They did very little 4 WR offense.

...height, that's it. He is not athletic, doesn't not fast, doesn't run good routes, doesn't have good hands, isn't good on special teams, and doesn't use his size to beat press corners. He's been on the roster because he is cheap. I think the Giants signed him because they need a WR for backup QBs to throw to in camp.

It is not out of the question that he eventually gets it (lots of guys get cut, move on and eventually pan out to some degree somewhere lese -as we are working on S Brown and A Brown right now), but the most likely trajectory for him is to play this season out at the tail end of our WRs, not be activated in most games as he does not play specials, not be resigned here next year, and shortly after be out of football.

You would like to think that, regardless of the opponent, if a young player buried on the depth chart has a break out game then at the least he would have earned himself some more opportunities in the following weeks.

Obviously, we don't see what the coaches see during practices but I think it's a well-accepted fact that some players are just "gamers" and may offer something different and significant to the team once they actually get a chance to get on the field.

and the Giants needed a WR that knew the offense so Eli could throw to someone. Barden isn't getting a second shot but was filling a role temporarily. I don't think he will be on the team this year when camp breaks especially since he offers little on specials

Remember when the Giants picked up Chad Morton in 2005? I could see the same thing happening this year if such a player is available. The guy I have me eyes on for the Giants in that regard is Brad Smith of the Bills.

I love how some always dismiss the Carolina game
UberAlias : 10:16 am
At least give the guy credit for what he does. It is not like Barden flat out sucks and is incapable of playing well without their being some reason why it was not legit. He has shown flashes at other times as well -he dominated in the Chicago preseason game last year as well.

The problem is there are certain areas in his game he has not shown consistency with, namely press coverage.

Right now we are looking at Stevie Brown and Andre Brown, both guys cut from other teams, as potential starters. It is not a given Barden is done in this league and there is a reason they brought him back -he is better than tail end of the team's WR roster.

If he were an undrafted guy instead of a 3rd round pick this place would have a much different outlook on him. The fact is, people here love undrafted guys and make anyone that shows a hint of promis to be potential superstars, and guys who are drafted high who do not live up to their draft status are made out to be worthless junk. In many cases, nother is reality.

Barden showed up for one game in his career, the Carolina game, which was a matter of playing a bad defense.

What other flashes did he show? Preferably other than a preseason game?

Last year we needed a WR to step up with Nicks out hurt and limited. Barden was on the field. What did he do?

He doesn't see any action in real games because he does not play specials so he is usually not activated. So I evalaue him based on what I see -training camp and in preseason games. He has deinitely shown flashes in both, though many on here simply will not admit it because he was a high draft pick who did not pan out. Just like Carolina game, instead of giving him credit for playing a good game it is full of excuses why it does not count. He has made plays in his limited time such as against Dallas the year before, he dominated against Chicago last preseason, has looked good to my eyes in camp. There are others, but no point in my listing as the pattern is clear -whatever flashes he does show do not count.

the size and speed that Eli is accustomed to finding in coverage and hitting in stride. JJ is smaller and faster and Barden is bigger and slower than the standard WR and it puts them at a disadvantage running the standard plays.

Are the Giants coaches going to come up with new plays to take advantage of JJ's speed and agility, or of Barden's height and heft? ONLY if what either of them can do is a slam dunk. Said another way, Barden and JJ only have value to the team IF in a specific situation(s) Barden's size or JJ's agility will almost always beat their coverage or cause the defense to overload on their side and open up one of the other Giants receivers.

We all thought that the corner and sideline routes for Barden would be his specialty. I guess we were wrong.

You are correct, and that is part of his core physical shortcomings. His fundamentals in catching passes, running routes, and blocking are all below average, along with his game awareness. He tends to make a pile of mistakes when the bullets are flying.

All the above typically means said player just isn't cut out for the NFL. We shall see if he pull a 180.

I don't give a shit about Barden any longer. He's not a gamer aside from preseason & the Carolina game, but for the 4 millionth time, HE DID PLAY ON KICKOFF COVERAGE TEAMS each of the 12 games he played last year & had 2 tackles. It's one thing to express an opinion no matter how inane it may be, but it drives me up a wall when people constantly misstate or ignore FACTS in support of an opinion, & just about every single BBIer who hates Barden with a passion (& there are LOTS of them) does this in regard to STs.

Barden has never gotten a chance. We have no idea if he's any good or not. But saying the coaches don't think he's any good makes me laugh. You mean the coaches that wanted to cut Cruz before the 2011 season but Reese wouldn't let them? The coaches that played Brandon Stokley over Cruz? The coaches that screamed in Cruz's face on national TV when he did get a play or two? The coaches that put Ohara back in the lineup when he couldn't play anymore and cost the Giants a playoff spot? The coaches that put Diehl back in the lineup last year and probably cost the Giants anther playoff spot? The only reason Cruz ever saw the field was because every other WR was injured. They had no one left. When Barden got that same no one left chance in NC he did what any NFL receiver will do if Eli Manning is his QB. Then he screwed up the Eagle game and that was the end of his career. We have no idea if he's any good or not. But we know Jerry Reese thinks he is.

guy who once he gets contacted, loses all of his stride frequency and has to stop&start all over again (which takes forever) which adds to his struggles against press coverage since he has no lateral quickness due to his size already

He tries to be this fineese wideout. trying to be slippery and use hip manipulation. Its utterly pathetic and fucking stupid. Fucking use your size and knock people off the line of scrimmage with your length, reach, size, and big hands (bigger than nicks' per combine). No, he tries to be fancy with his releases like hes some 5'10 slot guy.

I dont think hes ever going to overcome his lack of speed. Its too glaring of a flaw. If he doesnt get contacted at the line and runs in a straight line, eventually he'll get his long strides going at full speed. If not? Hes useless. Hes just lacks football attributes despite being somewhat of an athletic specimen in theory. He reminds me a lot of Jacobs, being someone you're not. Barden needs to embrace his limitations and change his playing demeanor along with his style. Focus on being physical and technical coming off the line of scrimmage, he cant stop-and-start at all because of his long legs. Dont wanna give up on him but its what now, year 5? He is what he is

JonC does in his analysis of him, Barden would be a roster lock. He not only doesn't play tall in games that count (Carolina was not defending him tightly, if at all), he plays small. He WILTED like the Wicked Witch of the West vs. Philly.

for carolina was always lined up 5-10 yards off the ball and barden made his catches against "off and soft" coverage, he didn't have to beat press coverage....something hes notoriously known for not being able to beat during his entire limited play-making career

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