Posted by tianyi7886 on 12/6/2012 4:42:00 PM (view original):But on a serious note, you are right. At the 5, low speed is not a hindrance. I wouldn't bat an eye recruiting a 90ath/reb/def/blk/lp big if his speed is 0.

ditto, even without the lp.

there is a major misconception by coaches in this game, surrounding the value of the guard attributes (spd, per, bh, pass) in centers, and even in bigs in general. with everything but per, people way overvalue them. with per, some coaches use it, and if you do, that increasing teh rest of those guard attributes. but only so slightly. a 90 ath 20 spd big (its hard to get much worse in high d1) still gets a lot of value in going from 90lp/1spd, to 90lp/50spd. a LOT of value. i used to lump per in with the rest - i said, ignore it. but that was wrong - and seble enhanced the effect of per significantly in the new engine - but i was starting to think it was slightly valuable before the new engine. having spd/bh makes that per *slightly* more valuable but we are talking slight here, you can still use per with **** spd/bh/pass. most people could look for that advantage (the increase in per shooting quality due to bh and spd in bigs) or their entire lives and never find it. the reality is, even in d1 championship play, you can easily compete near the level of the best teams in the game by totally ignoring everything but ath/reb/def/blk/sta in your bigs, and lp/per for your scoring bigs.

let me give a simple example to put things in scale. if i was going to sign a d1 center, who was a reb/def type (non scoring) - i would take a 95 ath, 95 reb, 90 def/sb/sta big over a 90 ath/reb/def/sb/sta big who also had 30 speed, bh, and passing. those 10 points of ath/reb are worth about 100 points of spd/bh/pass at the 5, in this situation. well, maybe a lot more than 100, but 10 vs 100 is where i start wondering if id make that trade.

once again, this falls in the real life vs hd category. i think its a major weakness in the engine, and should be changed. passing in centers especially in triangle was something i planned to build on in my early theories, but my studies in my prime all pointed to it being just a hair away from window dressing.

Posted by gillispie1 on 12/8/2012 12:10:00 AM (view original):not meaningless, but about as close as you can get without being durability :)

I still give it some value after the core big attributes for one reason ifnothing else; the flexibility to be able to potentially slide one over to small forward when setting present and future lineups. I like lineup flexibility. Makes me feel more free about altering my four year lineup plans based on best available talent.

My issue with it was that with one guy with a 5 speed, without a few other guys who are amazing speed, he put my team speed under 40 overall rating. you cant play press when your team is that slow. If you think about it like this, each of the 12 guys on your team is worth 8 points to each overall rating. so anyone with single digit ratings makes you lose 3 overall points than if you even had an average speed center.

Posted by dan2044 on 12/9/2012 6:17:00 AM (view original):My issue with it was that with one guy with a 5 speed, without a few other guys who are amazing speed, he put my team speed under 40 overall rating. you cant play press when your team is that slow. If you think about it like this, each of the 12 guys on your team is worth 8 points to each overall rating. so anyone with single digit ratings makes you lose 3 overall points than if you even had an average speed center.

thats true, but you have to think about it like this - overall rating doesnt mean anything. its a wind gauge, nothing more, your C having 1 speed or 100 doesnt make a damn bit of difference how well your guards are trapping - which is effectively what determines the effectiveness of the press.

Posted by gillispie1 on 12/8/2012 12:10:00 AM (view original):not meaningless, but about as close as you can get without being durability :)

I still give it some value after the core big attributes for one reason ifnothing else; the flexibility to be able to potentially slide one over to small forward when setting present and future lineups. I like lineup flexibility. Makes me feel more free about altering my four year lineup plans based on best available talent.

thats a decent reason, and also, speed is not useless at the 4. its probably still overvalued by most coaches, just like speed at the 5, but i do consider speed in my power forwards fairly seriously. still, way less than ath, reb, def, etc - but easily more than twice as important as C.

I value it, but I would not hesitate on a Big that I liked. I think it has value, but more so in the ways in which he can be used, i.e. if you plan to make him into a short to mid range wing player, it may be more useful / effective to have a little speed, but that being said, Speed would never be a final determining factor for me recruiting any LP player.