Reading through some of the posts in the above thread, it becomes somewhat apparent that there is a division of opinion. Some people (the conspiracy
minded) think there is every possibility that Kim Jong-Il was murdered, other think it was a case of natural causes and indeed, the media believe this
to be the case. Now I'm not going to argue the facts because when we are dealing with North Korea its almost impossible to know any truth...it is a
difficult country to access at the best of times.

Bearing that in mind it would be sensible to look at probabilities and other surrounding facts or knowledge that could paint a different picture...so
lets go digging!!!

Kim Il-Sung

Kim Jong-Il's father was Kim Il-Sung. He was the leader of North Korea from its founding in 1948 to his death in 1994. He held the positions of
Prime Minister and President during his lifetime. He died of "natural causes" in 1994, supposedly from a heart attack. Now the sad thing here is
that we will never know if he actually was murdered or not, but shortly after his death there were rumours that he had been murdered by his son Kim
Jong-Il.

Some of North Korea's high-ranking officials and experts guessed, "Kim Il-Sung was murdered by his son Kim Jong-Il"

Before his death in 1994, Kim Il-Sung seemed to be very healthy to take care of the North-South Korean talks and Nuke systems. He vowed that he can
control North Korea for 10 years more. They said, there might be several conflicts between Kim il-Sung and Kim Jong-Il because of the difference in
opinion about the North-South Korean talks (At that time, Kim Jung-Il objected to it) that made him (Kim Il-Sung) feel guilty.

They said, his natural death could be plotted by his son Kim Jong-Il.

Now of course this above statement is hear-say, but lets face it...what we hear about in the MSM is pretty much hear-say so the choice to view it from
outside the box remains open to you...keep reading...

Some of you may know what its like to live in North Korea, but most of you wont...and i dont either, but if i was to say the Kim Il-Sung and Kim
Jung-Il were revered like gods, you might laugh...well i hate to dissapoint but they were. Just like some revere Jesus, they revered their
leaders...to the point that it became the law.

National Geographic did a documentary on it...

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

Part 5

North Korea in terms of what we expect as western citizens is illustrated in these videos as quite shocking...infact it's quite upsetting to see these
people being forced to live like this without contact to the outside world.

One wall of the house must have a picture of the leader on the wall. It is illegal to have any other pictures on this wall. The picture must be kept
in good condition, and a cloth is provided for this purpose. Government inspectors regularly call on people to ensure they comply with this law.

They must also wear a lapel pin (in public) with a picture of the leader. It must be worn in front of their heart to show their devotion to him.
Compliance with this law is monitored by the 'Maintenance of Social Order Brigade'. An example of a first punishment for not wearing the pin is to be
made to attend (extra) 'ideological lectures'.

When Kim Sung-Il died, there were literally thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people who were mourning. This was not an everyday funeral,
this was the death of their "god". People took it to the extreme and started committing suicide during the funeral process.

Kim Il-sung's death resulted in nationwide mourning and a ten-day mourning period was declared by Kim Jong-il. His funeral in Pyongyang was attended
by hundreds of thousands of people from all over North Korea, many of whom were mourning dramatically (there were reports that many people committed
suicide or were killed in the resulting mass mourning crushes), weeping and crying Kim Il-sung's name during the funeral procession

When Kim Il-Sung collapsed, Kim Jong-Il ordered his tending physicians away from him. Kim Jong-Il requested the best physicians in North Korean be
flown in to help his father, but after several hours, they gave up...

On 8 July 1994, at age 82, Kim Il-sung collapsed from a sudden heart attack. After the heart attack, Kim Jong-il ordered the team of doctors who were
constantly at his father's side to leave, and for the country's best doctors to be flown in from Pyongyang. After several hours, the doctors from
Pyongyang arrived, and despite their efforts to save him, Kim Il-sung died.

There is no concuslive evidence and i doubt there ever will be whether or not Kim Il-Sung was murdered by his son and successor...but there is still
the possibility and until every avenue has been looked at it shouldn't be dismissed.

So stretching on from here we find ourselves with Kim Jong-Il as the successor and now as the pivotal point in the "investigation".

Kim Jong-Il

Kim Jong-Il died on 17 December at 08:30 of a heart attack whilst travelling by train to an area outside Pyongyang. He had suffered in the past with
his health and it was rumoured he suffered a stroke in 2008. Kim Jong-Il never named his successor before his death and there were rumours that
should his son take power before being officially named, Kim Jong-Il's brother-in-law, Chang Sung-taek, could attempt to take power from him.

On 2 June 2009, it was reported that Kim Jong-il's youngest son, Kim Jong-un, was to be North Korea's next leader. Like his father and grandfather,
he has also been given an official sobriquet, The Brilliant Comrade. Prior to his death, it had been reported that Kim Jong Il was expected to
officially designate the son as his successor in 2012.

Was there an opportunity here for Kim Jong-un to "relieve his father of his duties" sooner rather than later in an attempt to instigate a WW3? What
would a new leader with a massive nuclear military arsenal do in the event of a military coup against him? What would be the effects of China and
South Korea? It would give him a good opportunity to prove himself...

Kim Jong-un has been rumoured to have been caught attempting to murder before. He was supposedly caught in a mid assassination attempt against his
eldest brother Kim Jong-nam. Was Kim Jong-un aware that his father had changed his mind about the successor and it wasn't going to be Kim Jong-un
after all?

Kim Jong-un, the heir apparent to North Korean leader Kim Jong-il, reportedly has been caught in mid assassination attempt. According to South Korean
media citing Chinese government sources, the 26-year-old was trying to kill Kim Jong-nam, the first son in the lineage, after first doing away with
his older half brother’s top aides.

Are we seeing a rise to power from an imposter who was never going to be named? Are we seeing the beginning of WW3 because of a western educated
individual?

Is it possible that we will see a military coup in North Korea that could have ramifications into South Korea? Are the Rothchilds playing a far
bigger part in this than we are led to believe?

North Korea have to be removed from the Rothchilds point of view...Kim Jong-Il had too much power to be allowed to exist when they push the NWO. They
knew there would be too much to lose from a nuclear fallout, where North Korea instigated it.

Thanks for all the work gathering this information. It's an interesting premise. However, I wonder [if he was in fact murdered] if it wasn't the
Chinese behind it? I mean, the Chinese have had nothing but problems with him and his Regime.

China now has more in common and greater business ties [Worth tens of Billions if not more] with South Korea and others in the region which North
Korea has been opposed to. Not only that but China has been propping up the North Korean Regime only to have it threaten China's business partners in
the region.

The North Korean issue will only end one of two ways IMO. One would be an all out war and the utter destruction of North Korea or a Regime change from
within. [One that would be friendlier to both China's business/economic interest and the US/West Asian Allies]

There were a few thread here a year or two back discussing then how China has had enough of Little Kimmy and wasn't playing Sugar Daddy anymore with
his Regime.

BEIJING (Reuters) - China shares the
region's "serious concerns" about a nuclear North Korea and urged all parties to keep negotiating, a senior Chinese military officer said Wednesday
after talks with Pentagon officials.

Lieutenant-General Ma Xiaotian did not announce any new measures against Pyongyang, but said Beijing was concerned about North Korea, which staged a
second nuclear test on May 25, prompting new U.N. sanctions.

"For the regional security of northeast Asia, the North Korean nuclear issue is not only a serious concern for the United States and neighboring South
Korea..

Reporting from Beijing -- When is it
time to dump an old friend who insists on behaving badly? The debate is raging in China. North Korea's latest nuclear test raises the question of just
how long the bonds forged between old communist allies will endure.

The test was conducted barely 50 miles from the Chinese border. The ground rumbled in northeast China, and some schools were evacuated because of
fears of an earthquake.

"It was quite shocking. The location where they did this test was a lot closer to China than to where [North Korean leader] Kim Jong Il is living in
Pyongyang," said...

Also. Little Kimmy over the past year or two had made a couple of trips to China. Supposedly to strengthen economic ties.

So it was either that or his excessive lifestyle of smoking, drinking and over eating finally did him in.

I see your point and to be honest I'm sitting on the fence with it all, why? Well because it's almost impossible to know for sure anything that's
reported on him. The truth in North Korea about anything is so tightly lipped that it would be impossible to find out...

What does get me confused though is that given the worlds economic situation...the Rothchilds must have been very well aware and probably have been
for decades of an impending collapse, but need a WW3 to distract for change...

Is it possible to conceive the idea that with Kim Jong-un being educated in the west, probably linked to covert agencies etc to some degree that he
was part of their plan all along to dis-arm North Korea of its nuclear arsenal before the war could be initialised?

Was Kim Jong-Il aware of his son's intentions? Was Kim Jong-Il preparing to name his eldest son as successor to stop any westernised plan for North
Korea?

You know I can't stop thinking of the game homefront what if Kim Jong Un murdered his father as part of a plan to make North Korea a superpower after
all he is an avid video gamer so it wouldn't be surprising if he has one at his home

I have to agree that Kim Jong-il was intentionally killed, but not murdered as some may think.

While many reasons already discussed do indeed exist, this posting is in no way attempting to undermine the thread's premise that Kim Jong-il was
killed on purpose. I just think "murder" is the wrong term.

I contend that any world dictator like Kim Jong-il and other dictators in power around the world and through history have provided us with example
after example of family insiders being responsible in some way for the ultimate death of some tyrant with complete control over a nation and its
people.

While I view this incident different from most, I thought I would share my different perspective on this matter as food for thought on the matter.

I have no doubt that Kim Jong-il would have wanted to have some control over his death and would have known that his ill health leading to death would
be the most opportune time for insiders from the military to take over or stage a coup.

This knowledge of such a fact would have prompted Kim Jong-il to plan and set a staged death that would be sold to the world while solidifying
internal questions to the military and other insiders that would have used the death of Kim Jong-il to do things a different way in terms of who takes
leadership controlling power.

While such a plan negates any military insiders knowing and thus negates their coup planning, only Kim Jong-il and his son could have staged this
event in order to sell it to the world and to the N. Korean military hierarchy.

Only the son of Kim Jong-il could use the agreed upon death date to his advantage and also send a cryptic yet clear message to the military insiders
with other ideas.

Remember that Kim Jong-il devised this plan so bare with me as I explain.

Kim Jong-il would have wanted to go out a certain way and also use his death to control the rise of his son to power.

While insiders may have had coup ideas when Kim Jong-il died, they would have used the stage of health to gauge their planning leading to the day he
died.

In such a staged death way, Kim Jong-il could die as desired while giving his successor son the basis to be viewed as having killed his own father to
rise to power.

Only by being considered a cold blooded killer in such a way, would those in the military then stop to think that the son not only has the minerals
to kill his own father, so ergo he can easily order the deaths of anyone that gets in his way.

In such a way, the son rises to power while keeping the military at bay that didn't really know until now that he had it in him to kill his own
father so as to assume the leadership role.

This motivation would have prompted Kim Jong-il to be the one who determines when he himself dies and would use that event in cooperation and in
complete understanding with his son as to why it has to appear as if the son killed his own father to rise to power.

This staged killer of father image not only keeps the N.Korean military generals thinking about themselves, but it also signals to the world that the
son of Kim Jong-il is evil, a killer who killed his own father to gain power and to keep power in the family.

The son is portrayed as someone who now commands respect from the insiders and the rest of the world.

Give the orders to the military to fire a missile which once again, Kim Jong-il would have already desired and pre planned in order to give that
impression that the son is in control and knows what he's doing. Most Korean generals would have also agreed with his action as a means of keeping
world face and respect at such a time.

The generals surprised by the death of Kim Jong-il and unable to garner forces in time, in turn succumb to the knowledge that their new 27 yr old
leader is a killer and only by thinking of Kim Jong-il's son as a killer can the son get any respect in the Korean military and from other killer
leaders around the world.

This whole event of Kim Jong-il was in my mind a staged event with guarantees that many would accuse or think that the son murdered his own father.

Anyway, I personally think that Kim Jong-il by controlling completely when and how he died so as to transfer power in a manner that Kim Jong-il
understood as the long term tyrant that he was, would be needed to allow the son to rise to power in a world stage where only killers get any respect.

All others are easily assassinated or killed out right. Kim Jong-il would have known all of this and thus staged his death for the many reasons that
exist but mostly to ensure a good hand-off under control.

While my take on the matter is indeed uniquely different, I think that anyone who considers my premise will see that it is more than possible and
plausible while also making more sense than most other explanations sold or promoted.

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