IONS Discussion Thread Comments: 'It was his/her time ...' Thoughts on 'alloted' lifespans welcomehttp://noetic.org/discussions/open/175/We often hear the words 'It was just his/her time to go' regarding passing.
I've a problem with this insofar as I have had a LOT of friends/relatives pass. Some have simply dropped dead others have passed after having suffered long illnesses, or fatal accidents. And then there are those in between such as my husband who, although a moderate drinker/smoker passed very quickly of liver cancer, although it's widely believed the heart embuilsm was that which did prolong his suffering and made for a speedy return to Source. He was relatively young and very strong, you wouldn't have known there was anything wrong with him, even the nurse said 'just bad luck' ?!
This is my quandary. If someone is a meat eating six-pack and a bottle of Jack, smoker, in all likelihood, chances of longevity pretty slim (although not unheard of).
On the other hand, I have had friends who've quite literally dropped dead at a very young age. So if we do indeed have 'allotted spans', not to mention the number of NDErs who've been told to 'go back' as it's 'not their time', how does all this hold up? Spiritually speaking. Or do only some of us have 'allotted spans' :D
en-usThu, 05 May 2011 10:31:11 -0700Fallensoulhttp://noetic.org/discussions/open/175/#comment_2280Hi tamsinstead, I'm sorry that you no longer have the physical association of your husband in this life.
According to the Vedic idea, in general, when we take birth in this life, our life span is determined (some say, by the number of breaths). Everyone has alloted spans based on our own previous actions (karma) and desires. There is no bias, the moral laws of karma act as strictly as the natural law of gravity. No one suffers or prospers undeservedly.
Now if we look at a persons actions just in this lifetime, one can easily say that this person didn't deserve such bad luck. What possible horrible actions could a 1 year old child perform? Yet hundreds of children never make it to see even a year of this life. The problem is that we're just looking at this lifetime. The vedic idea says there isnt any luck, everything is acting according to exact laws, some gross, some subtle.
According to the subtle law of reincarnation, at the time of death based on our level of consciousness, we enter into another life. When the soul, or self transmigrates from one body to the next, it carries with it mental impressions, karma (past reactions good or bad) and desires from its previous incarnation. It is only the gross physical body that is lost at death. The subtle body of the material mind carry the soul to the next life, where the subtle body, based on its karma and desires form a new gross body and at this time certain parameters are setup, e.g. the maximum lifespan due and other karmic situations that one will have to face in this life.
We are therefore responsible for every material action we perform and it's accumulative over our lifetimes. But we have the free will to perform good or bad action in the present life which will then affect our future in this life or the next. As we sow, so shall we reap. Even good karma means we have to reincarnate into higher births and enjoy the results of that and then when our results are over, we return to earth in an attempt to continue to enjoy and suffer here. So its a question of first class, second class or third class prison cell for one bound up in the noose of the subtle laws of karma and reincarnation. It's as real as it gets and not very comforting!
But the thing is that karma is not an eternal thing. We CAN change our karma and better -- eliminate it. We always have the choice to respond to our circumstances and in this way we can become independent of our karmic situation. That requires us to purify ourselves (and those who we love and have passed on) from karmic results by performing spiritual action which doesn't incur karma because its action not on the selfish material platform. The results of spiritual action is that we get out of this prison of a material world, and go back to our personal relationship with the Supreme being.
Ofcourse this is just a brief presentation.
Tue, 03 May 2011 06:19:15 -0700http://noetic.org/discussions/open/175/#comment_2280charliethttp://noetic.org/discussions/open/175/#comment_2282We can all say many things, quote others and come up with all sorts of theories about this subject.
When I asked my guides about the future they said simply " it is written ". When I asked if the future could be changed the replay was " no, it will be done. "
Tue, 03 May 2011 17:43:46 -0700http://noetic.org/discussions/open/175/#comment_2282tamsinsteadhttp://noetic.org/discussions/open/175/#comment_2286Well, thanks Charliet. Sounds very like Islam's 'Inshalla' 'It is written'. Which I, living in a multi cultural society in SE Asia, believe to hold water.
And to Fallensoul: I very much appreciate your take on the Vedic traditions (I particularly liked your post regarding spiders having souls/minds).
I have visited India and am attracted to ayuravedic medicine. You seem to be much more acquainted than I with their specific take on 'spirituality'. Allan Watts, after having published The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance - concerned primarily with Buddhism (I live in a predominately Buddhist culture) once said 'the Hindus have the real dope'.
So much to learn ...Wed, 04 May 2011 06:19:32 -0700http://noetic.org/discussions/open/175/#comment_2286MichaelOlahhttp://noetic.org/discussions/open/175/#comment_2289When I was about 35 years old I took a numerology class. I am now 57. The teacher had us do a particular exercise. One that I couldn't repeat if I tried. The numbers revealed correlated to important events in my life at certain ages and they were matching up perfectly. Only there was no activity after the number 64. Everything stopped.
I took my work sheet to show the teacher and asked, "Is this what I think it is?" She looked at it and said, "Yep". "That's when you're all done!"
I found this to be fascinating. The one thing in life that scared me the most was death. But that was before I learned about metaphysics- and in particular the death experience. That was the subject that interested me the most. Now I was privy to the approximate date of my own transition.
Like I said, I'm 57 now. I have 7 more years (and 8 months I was told) to see if this is true or not. If it is true, then yes, there is no doubt that we are here for a specified amount of time. It's come up several times in books that I have read anyway. So knowing my own departure date is just proving a point to me- my own proof.
For those of you out there reading this and wonder how I can comfortably live with this knowledge, know this: I live in the comfort of knowing that its not yet. If an airplane I'm riding in starts bucking like a bronco because of turbulence- its not yet. If a car I'm riding in with someone else who doesn't drive very well- its not yet. And so forth. I live with that confidence.
'Course ask me again in 7 years.
Wed, 04 May 2011 12:38:58 -0700http://noetic.org/discussions/open/175/#comment_2289cprizehttp://noetic.org/discussions/open/175/#comment_2294Is the real question do we all die? Yes. Or is the question do we have to have a fatalistic approach and that we are relegated to a specific time in this life?
That depends on whether you realize that your dreams are trying to keep you from harm, whether from accidents, Acts of God, terrorism, bad diet or other acts that shorten our existence. I could tell you that in another generation or so we will be living on the upside of 200 years as an average, so that shoots down the 'time to go' theory (and means that endless pensions will be a thing of the past). The problem is that few people bother heeding the advice and hints their dreams provide and we shorten our lives immensely.Wed, 04 May 2011 19:50:33 -0700http://noetic.org/discussions/open/175/#comment_2294tamsinsteadhttp://noetic.org/discussions/open/175/#comment_2298@cprize I find your post confusing. Of course we all 'die' and my question has nothing to do with fatalism. I am of the 'we have predestined paths but can choose at various crossroads' school of thought.
As to the bit about our dreams keeping us from harm? What are you talking about? My post doesn't mention precognition.
Quote: "I could tell you that in another generation or so we will be living on the upside of 200 years as an average, so that shoots down the 'time to go' theory (and means that endless pensions will be a thing of the past). The problem is that few people bother heeding the advice and hints their dreams provide and we shorten our lives immensely." Is pointless, given that a human being's lifespan is around 75 to 80, but I would guess that many more people 'die' before this time that attain this age. And so your contention that 'we will be living on the upside of 200 (Buddha forbid), in relation to my question is meaningless.
@ MicaelOlah Numerology HUGE here. Will check with my Chinese chum in town. 'Though his daily i-ching charts haven't yet won him the lottery in over the ten years I've known him :D
Wed, 04 May 2011 22:17:20 -0700http://noetic.org/discussions/open/175/#comment_2298Fallensoulhttp://noetic.org/discussions/open/175/#comment_2301The Vedic teachings is similar to the other Eastern schools of thought like Buddism and Advaita etc. in that it accepts that we're made up of consciousness or spirit and we're not this material identity or body or a product of this material world. Therefore trying to find complete satisfaction here is somewhat illusory, if at best temporary and fleeting. At best one can say, I'm satisifed with this life, but then one is forced to leave this situation and accept another, so that in itself is a suffering to you and to others whom you have to leave. No-one wants to cease to exist -- the real problems hindering my enjoyment, despite our so-called advancement in science and technology remain and will remain: disease, old-age, death and rebirth.
So one may come to the conclusion that this place isnt home. one can realise, by various means -- particularly through a bona-fide guru --, that I have a false sense of self or ego thats conditioning me to this material position. I'm thinking Im so-and-so Phd but after death, that identity with its relationships are lost, but I continue to exist. So what is my real identity? This is where it gets interesting and where the schools start to differ.
The major difference from the essential vedic teachings of the Bhagavad Gita and Srimad Bhagavatam with other schools is that there is a full conception of the Source or God. The Personality of God and His various energies and how they interact. The name, activities, forms, the variety of relationships, the pleasures and exchanges we hold with God in the spiritual world is described in such detail that no other school provides insight into. It is with this fuller conception that one can appreciate that the universal oneness of consciousness, that science is barely discovering now is only the doorway of the prison. Granted we're out of the jail of material suffering and with that comes much wanted relief from the pangs of material life, but the real life and action is outside the prison compound altogether.
So the confidential vedic teaching says keep walking, theres more....the path of bhakti. Devotional service to Source is considered the highest stage, far far beyond the lonely experience of oneness. The loving exchanges of consciousness between the Big Spirit and little spirit souls culminate in rasa -- taste -- spiritual emotional exchange. Don't settle for anything less than that taste! Cultivate this kind of action and transcending false ego, attaining mystic siddhis, connecting with everyone in love etc all come as a by-product. Thu, 05 May 2011 10:30:38 -0700http://noetic.org/discussions/open/175/#comment_2301Fallensoulhttp://noetic.org/discussions/open/175/#comment_2302Thanks tamsinstead. Before I respond to your message, I thought I'd share this, you may be familiar with it but it touches on many things relevant to this topic. I particularly like the idea about how we can choose to transcend our rather unfortunate karmic situation, and how too much objective science makes us blind to life being larger than we are. Interview here: http://www.shareguide.com/Remen.html - Shes also quite dear to IONS.
I've only been in India a few years now, but I've learnt more about culture, spirituality and life than ever before. Practically all the fields of art, science and culture have so much depth and ancient wisdom. Ofcourse one has to be careful -- its an easy place to get cheated, especially in matters of spirituality. Not to mention they have really good food! The variety is incredible, all these spices and tasty fruits, vegetables and milk products -- incredibly delicious sweets.
Initially I was a little skeptical about Ayurvedic medicine and all those powders and oils, but it really has done wonders for my body, and I've personally seen its significant effects on many of my family and friends. Its not always practical due to our sometimes unregulated lifestyle, but it certainly works for me.
Thu, 05 May 2011 10:31:11 -0700http://noetic.org/discussions/open/175/#comment_2302