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Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

Originally Posted by Lerxst

So what is Israel "sacrificing" if it returns the territories it occupied in 1967? What is Israel "sacrificing" if it allows Palestinians to return to Israel? Are Palestinians such a blight on the land that their presence will somehow harm Israel?

The so called right of return is Islamo-fascist newspeak for the destruction of Israel through a demographic shift. And considering that the "Palestinians" elected an organization which calls for the extermination of world Jewry right in their charter it would be a bit idiotic to expect Israel to ever give them a majority within a country which is home to more than half of the worlds Jews.

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Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

Originally Posted by Lerxst

I've thought about this myself. Hamas stands to lose power and influence among Palestinians if an actual peace plan begins to emerge. I don't think they want that. Hamas has no interest in peace, but I think most Palestinians really do.

Then why in the hell did they elect Hamas which explicitly rejects any peace initiative right in their charter? And don't give me that shpeel about Fatah being corrupt, because the disputed territories has a multiparty electoral system.

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Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

Originally Posted by Lerxst

It "won the land in a war." Just like Saddam "won the land in Kuwait" when he invaded.

No it is nothing like that as this was a war of self defense against yet another Arab extermination campaign. Furthermore; Egypt and Jordan have renounced sovereignty claims over Gaza and the West Bank respectively thus the assertion that they should "give it back" is erroneous as the Arabs who have since taken to calling themselves "Palestinians" have no more territorial claim to that land than the Israelis. Moreover, after the war of 1967 Israel did in fact offer to give Jordan and Egypt back the land in return for a recognition of Israel, however, they were rebuffed with the famous "three no's" by the Arab league: "no recognition of Israel, no negotiation with Israel, and no peace with Israel".

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Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

Originally Posted by kaya'08

I tell of this story because it depicts a race of people having to struggle against a rising tide of perposterous evil. There very existence threatened. There bravery and courage charmes me everytime i think about this wonderful story, and it also reminds each time, that for such a thing to ever happen again, against the Jewish people, would be a travesty and a failure on the part of all mankind. Therefore, to avoid a repeat of the future, we must ensure that both Arabs and Jews find a peaceful, well thought out deal, and a home in the Middle East, together. In otherwords, it must be known to the Jewish people that supporting the unpeaceful ideologies of Netanyahu's party will never bring peace to them in a homeland where for once in there history, they can remain undisturbed.

At least Likud recognizes and has pledged commitment to all peace agreements made by previous administrations, whereas, Hamas flatly rejects them all.

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Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

Originally Posted by bub

Polls show that 72% of the Palestinian want the 2-states solution

Then why did they elect Hamas?

Furthermore; the polls actually depict the opposite of your claims:

Most Palestinians Reject Two-State Solution
October 10, 2008

(Angus Reid Global Monitor) - The majority of people in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip are against the creation of a Palestinian state neighbouring Israel, according to a poll by An-Najah National University. 54.3 per cent of respondents oppose the so-called two-state solution, while 42.5 per cent support it.

Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

This kind of argument is rather silly because it simply reduces to looking over the history and seeing who attacked first, Israel will not win that argument but the past is gone. Why drag it up here?

You just did what you said others shouldn't. And you did so incorrectly: Israel would easily win that argument. Now if you want to debate solutions, stick to the solutions without adding any "parting shots", especially inaccurate ones.

Let's think about the future rather than who were the aggressors in 67, 48 or before.

OK, so what do you think should happen? What do you think, in simple terms, should be parameters of peace for both Arab countries and Israel?

This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

Originally Posted by Navy Pride

You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.

Originally Posted by Wessexman

See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .

Originally Posted by CriticalThought

Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.

Originally Posted by ernst barkmann

It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

Originally Posted by Wessexman

This kind of argument is rather silly because it simply reduces to looking over the history and seeing who attacked first, Israel will not win that argument but the past is gone. Why drag it up here?

Let's think about the future rather than who were the aggressors in 67, 48 or before.

Israel will in fact win this argument on who attacked first in that the Arabs were allowing their territories to used as bases from which to launch fedayeen terrorist attacks against Israel, they had encircled Israel with hundreds of thousands of troops, tanks, and aircraft, and they had once again illegally closed the Straights of Tiran, all the while Arab leaders and state owned media outlets were threatening Israel with destruction.

Furthermore; who was on the defensive is quite relevant to the discussion regarding the fate of the disputed territories.

Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy

You just did what you said others shouldn't. And you did so incorrectly: Israel would easily win that argument. Now if you want to debate solutions, stick to the solutions without adding any "parting shots", especially inaccurate ones.

What's wrong with a parting shot? There is no need to let American think I'm letting him get away with his attack and trying to simply change the subject. Israel cannot win, they took the land of someone else and started a country on it with mass immigration, by any reasonable standards that is aggression, last time we had this argument you had to resort to nihilism and ex post justification, to defend it which of course means that no one is right or wrong including Hamas today. When provoked I have no hesitation in arguing about the past while maintaining it is not pertinent to the present.

In 1918 Israel had no right to set up. I mean if we admit it did then we might as well through all ideas of borders and property away.

OK, so what do you think should happen? What do you think, in simple terms, should be parameters of peace for both Arab countries and Israel?

Israel should leave the West bank and gaza including all settlements, a Palestinian state should be set up and the Pals should recognise Israel and stop any attacks on it.

Last edited by Wessexman; 05-07-09 at 06:11 AM.

"It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

Originally Posted by Agent Ferris

Israel will in fact win this argument on who attacked first in that the Arabs were allowing their territories to used as bases from which to launch fedayeen terrorist attacks against Israel, they had encircled Israel with hundreds of thousands of troops, tanks, and aircraft, and they had once again illegally closed the Straights of Tiran, all the while Arab leaders and state owned media outlets were threatening Israel with destruction.

Furthermore; who was on the defensive is quite relevant to the discussion regarding the fate of the disputed territories.

And Israel was set up on land stolen from the individual and collective property of the Palestinians by massive, unwanted immigration and then given the seal of allowance by the international community.

But that is gone. It happened, the Israeli's today are not responsbile even if they often far too arrogant over this aspect of their past and the Pals will need to recognise Israel to get anywhere.

Last edited by Wessexman; 05-07-09 at 06:09 AM.

"It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke