(New Braunfels, TX) -- An 18-month old toddler is still missing, despite the best efforts of New Braunfels Police and nearby neighbors who went out into the cold night searching for the young boy. Police officials say they were first called out to the 26-hundred block of Savannah Hill Circle (which sits off of Klein Road, on the east side of I-35) just before 9 o’clock last night after the mother of the 18-month old buy reported him missing. She had last seen him inside their residence about 20-minutes prior to calling police, and responding officers searched the home multiple times, then added a grid search of the entire neighborhood, with no luck finding the toddler.

Police spoke to the child's pediatrician Tuesday, Penshorn said, and concluded that the child's survivability window in last weekend's sub-freezing weather was only 24 hours. Armed with that information and the numerous searches, it becomes less likely that the child wandered off and died in the elements.

It also appears that NCMEC is on in an advisory role.

FaerieB

02-08-2011, 10:09 PM

Crazy question....
Have they cleared inside the house?

There have been numerous reports that the house was cleared initially on Friday.

I wish I were swayed, but I'll come out and say it, I still don't believe the parents are involved. Now, maybe one of the other people in the home that night, but if so, I believe it was without the parent's knowledge. The old saying, "Two can keep a secret if one of them is dead..." There is no way that 7 adults are all keeping the same secret unless this is the world's worst flubbed investigation. In order for everyone to get on the same page with the same story, it would have taken more time than they had before calling LE. And someone would have told by now. If there was one person, say one that had a legitimate sounding reason to sneak out for just a few...

That would be my bet.

Fairy1

02-08-2011, 10:21 PM

Poor little baby Joshua. The only hope now is that someone did take him.

I'm just not ready to point the finger directly at the parents. He looks like such a happy, well-cared-for baby in all the pictures. I can't convince myself they hurt him.

I am praying for this baby.

not_my_kids

02-08-2011, 10:35 PM

Also, I side with the police that the RSO is not involved. An 8 or 9 year old child, then 15 years later, he goes after a child under the age of two? No, that's not a pattern. It doesn't fit. I know there are some that go for both genders of children, but a prepubescent girl and then a year and a half old boy? No, sorry, not with what we know about offenders.

mommy23

02-08-2011, 10:42 PM

With every hour, I am becoming more and more attached to Joshua. Even though, his mom referred to him as "the baby" for almost the entire interview on NG, it still didn't raise flags for me. Joshua's parents remind me of me and my DH. I believe they are completely innocent. Well, maybe I will call them guilty of believing that 7 adults would have been keeping an eye on the baby.... Although I know many parents make that mistake. The more adults there are, the less the kiddos are watched. It happens. But I think SOMEONE harmed baby Joshua...... Maybe a stranger, maybe the "friend" that left at some point and came back??? Do I have that right? Maybe a crime of oppurtunity? OR Maybe LE screwed this from the beginning by NOT bringing in the PROPER SAR dogs! I cannot stop thinking of poor lil man, he is so handsome, obviously loved, and obviously happy. I keep praying for a miracle.... Miracles happen everyday.........:rocker:

panthera

02-08-2011, 10:47 PM

Also, I side with the police that the RSO is not involved. An 8 or 9 year old child, then 15 years later, he goes after a child under the age of two? No, that's not a pattern. It doesn't fit. I know there are some that go for both genders of children, but a prepubescent girl and then a year and a half old boy? No, sorry, not with what we know about offenders.

I don't believe the RSO is involved either, but I won't rule out someone who was there inside the house that night since I feel it highly improbable little Joshua just wandered off into the cold night. MOO

gitana1

02-08-2011, 11:02 PM

I'm not thinking it was the parents either. Yes, I noticed that the dad does not look into the camera and neither seem really panicked, but these are young people who may not have basic skills interfacing with anyone on a professional level and they may not be mature enough to grasp the ramifications at this point. I don't know. In any event, many people thought Ed Smart and the Van Dams acted strangely or not in a manner expected, after their kids went missing, and the step-dad of Jaycee Dugard, etc. There are many more out there who didn't seem to "act right" but who had nothing to do with the disappearance of their children.
I don't know what the ultimate truth will be here but I'm still thinking he wandered off somehow, curled up in a small space and died, poor thing, or got taken by a coyote or was hustled out of the house by someone in it. I;m still thinking of those possibilities. I hope not but I believe they will likely find a small body in the next few days somewhere near the house. Oh, he's such a pretty, pretty child. Poor little guy.

belimom

02-08-2011, 11:08 PM

The only thing about it not being the mom or dad: it would have to be someone familiar enough with the home/property to hide him THAT quickly. If the mom/dad are both telling the truth and are innocent, then that leaves about a 20-minute window from the time he was last seen until LE was summoned. That's a very short time window. Too short, I think.

There was the other person who left/returned that timeframe that Joshua went missing but he evidently was cleared. Not sure how, but... I guess he's cleared. (????)

I think the fact that the father took three polygraphs and also said he had no idea what LE removed from the back yard (meaning LE didn't share it with him) says a lot, IMHO.

ETA: I'm not saying it is one of the parents (the THREE polygraphs are highly suspicious to me, though) - but whoever it was knew the home/yard very well and felt comfortable there. MOO

CarmelEyesD

02-08-2011, 11:08 PM

I personally don't think it was the parents, unless they are very good actors. However, if one of them did hurt him, it could have been unintentional-maybe an accident that he/she/someone panicked after and quickly removed the child. But I don't think so. One of the 'guests' could have accidentally dropped him on his head and taken him somewhere a few miles away quickly. With that many people, and no one really paying attention, anything could have happened. Something could have happened earlier, before the guests arrived, and in the noise and crowded atmosphere, no one may have noticed Joshua wasn't even there. Or he got outside and someone picked him up.

Jovi Girl

02-08-2011, 11:16 PM

I wish I were swayed, but I'll come out and say it, I still don't believe the parents are involved. Now, maybe one of the other people in the home that night, but if so, I believe it was without the parent's knowledge. The old saying, "Two can keep a secret if one of them is dead..." There is no way that 7 adults are all keeping the same secret unless this is the world's worst flubbed investigation. In order for everyone to get on the same page with the same story, it would have taken more time than they had before calling LE. And someone would have told by now. If there was one person, say one that had a legitimate sounding reason to sneak out for just a few...

That would be my bet.

Most of this is usually spot on.......until you think of Haleigh Cummings.....2 people (or more) keeping secrets.

Daisyjane

02-08-2011, 11:23 PM

Most of this is usually spot on.......until you think of Haleigh Cummings.....2 people (or more) keeping secrets.

I'd venture a guess there's two or more in the know on Hailey Dunn, as well.

mysticrose

02-08-2011, 11:26 PM

I don't feel it is the parents either, I think someone took the baby out of that home. I wonder how sure the parents are of the time's last seen ? Also the friend that left for 20 mins and came back.....well I will play devil's advocate here, that is enough time IMO to give him to someone else that left with him or enough time to take him home and stash him until later. We know LE was there right away but they were out looking for him believeing he wandered off I am sure they were not checking homes.

Dee10

02-08-2011, 11:26 PM

What a beautiful, beautiful child. There is not enough information yet for me feeling comfortable enough to form an opinion, except he walked away or his own, someone in the house removed him or a phantom person decides to sneak in to a small house full of people. I feel it is too remote to consider that someone just happened to be lurking on the street she a toddler walk by on a cold night. This should be a simple case to solve, famous last words I know. I originally thought that in the early days of the Cummings case as well.

katydid23

02-08-2011, 11:32 PM

I personally don't think it was the parents, unless they are very good actors. However, if one of them did hurt him, it could have been unintentional-maybe an accident that he/she/someone panicked after and quickly removed the child. But I don't think so. One of the 'guests' could have accidentally dropped him on his head and taken him somewhere a few miles away quickly. With that many people, and no one really paying attention, anything could have happened. Something could have happened earlier, before the guests arrived, and in the noise and crowded atmosphere, no one may have noticed Joshua wasn't even there. Or he got outside and someone picked him up.

I agree with the possibility that an accident took place, and that one person, maybe 2 covered it up.

But I have to assume it happened after the guests arrived because if they never saw the baby we would have heard that already. Both parents have made public statements declaring he was around all of the adults up until
8 pm. So I am going to assume the boy was seen by the others.

I still think it is more likely that one of the guests stole him secretly and I don't believe LE could clear them so quickly. If one of them were able to get him out with no one looking then they had lots of places to stash him for hours before anyone would search their home or vehicles more thoroughly.

The person who supposedly left briefly and then returned could have hidden him in their trunk. Then while people began to go out quickly and search in the first 20 minutes he could have moved him somewhere else. Did he come back in the same vehicle?

“Although we are still searching, our primary focus is shifting more towards the investigation aspect,” said New Braunfels Police Department Lt. Michael Penshorn. “We are investigating to find out exactly what happened to Joshua Davis on the evening in question.”

Noway

02-08-2011, 11:50 PM

I hate to think of all those people attending the vigil on what could very well be the initial crime scene.

“Although we are still searching, our primary focus is shifting more towards the investigation aspect,” said New Braunfels Police Department Lt. Michael Penshorn. “We are investigating to find out exactly what happened to Joshua Davis on the evening in question.”

Says a whole lot right there, IMHO.

:(

justthinkin

02-08-2011, 11:54 PM

Well I'm beginning to wonder if drugs weren't involved, and if the baby was given drugs as a joke, and it killed him, and the whole group conjured up what to do, sent the one guy out to get rid of the evidence, and when he came back, had a few moments to chill before LE was then called out.

Someone mentioned the father not looking into the camera. I see that as a red flag. I see the mother supposedly crying, wiping one eye not both. Another red flag to me. If you are sincerely crying then you are going to be wiping both your eyes.

Someone else said they were young, didn't know how to act on camera. My feeling is there IS no acting if you have sincerely lost your child. You hang your heart out there because you are ripped from the very core of your being.

I fear this couple was hollering kidnapping with hopes of getting LE out of the neighborhood and off their backs. Hope I'm wrong.

Also hope this doesn't turn into the Hailey Cummings type situation. Wonder if LE put up the $5000 reward to see if any of the guests would give in for that amount and spill the beans? JMO.

sarx

02-08-2011, 11:56 PM

Ugh, why must the vigils be held at the PLS?

noneareworthy

02-09-2011, 12:02 AM

Was it ever said why there were so many people there? Did they live there? Was it a party? The mother mentioned she was in watching a video while the 18-month old roamed the house. Where were the rest of them? Was the child available all evening or did just the parents see him? I have been unable to find the basics of this case.

justthinkin

02-09-2011, 12:05 AM

Another thing. When LE starts pulling stuff out of the couple's backyard with a helicopter hovering overhead, then that tells me they think the couple is responsible or have heavy involvement in the boy's disappearance.

peeples

02-09-2011, 12:08 AM

Was it ever said why there were so many people there? Did they live there? Was it a party? The mother mentioned she was in watching a video while the 18-month old roamed the house. Where were the rest of them? Was the child available all evening or did just the parents see him? I have been unable to find the basics of this case.

Mom was in bedroom watching toy story. dad and visiting friends watching a basketball game in the living room.

katydid23

02-09-2011, 12:11 AM

Ugh, why must the vigils be held at the PLS?

That makes me a bit suspicious of the family. If as they say, they are wondering about if one of their guests took the baby, WHY would they allow all of these strangers to track through a potential crime scene?
The only reason I could think of is if you didnt want it to be closely examined anymore.

Noway

02-09-2011, 12:13 AM

Was it ever said why there were so many people there? Did they live there? Was it a party? The mother mentioned she was in watching a video while the 18-month old roamed the house. Where were the rest of them? Was the child available all evening or did just the parents see him? I have been unable to find the basics of this case.

I don't know if it was a party. Just family and friends over to watch game?

LE taking things from the yard does not look good as far as the child having wandered away, that is for sure.
I don't think LE would confide in the parents at this point ,no matter where they are looking.

Texas Mist

02-09-2011, 12:21 AM

I wonder who arranged the vigil and its location?

LE taking things from the yard does not look good as far as the child having wandered away, that is for sure.
I don't think LE would confide in the parents at this point ,no matter where they are looking.

On one of the news vids I watched today, the dad said he & mom got the vigil together...don't remember his exact words.

noneareworthy

02-09-2011, 12:23 AM

And so at 7:40 the mom sees him in the bedroom. Then around 8 the dad (and everyone else) sees him in the living room. And then they call the police???? (This is what I got from NG the other night)......Is there some better info?

justthinkin

02-09-2011, 12:26 AM

And maybe you hold a vigil at your house because so long as you don't leave you have some control KWIM?

<modsnip>

And didn't I read somewhere that the parents were balking on some of the searches of their home? Anyone else see in an article where they wanted to tell LE you can look here, but not here or something to that effect?

I know someone posted as much, but I can't remember if it's just something I read here at WS or if it was in one or more articles earlier in the day.

katydid23

02-09-2011, 12:28 AM

And so at 7:40 the mom sees him in the bedroom. Then around 8 the dad (and everyone else) sees him in the living room. And then they call the police???? (This is what I got from NG the other night)......Is there some better info?

And then, apparently, they began looking for him inside, then outside and then called police 20 minutes later, from what I heard on NG. But there was also a possible extra 20 minutes because police were called at 8;40. Isnt that what was said on NG ?

belimom

02-09-2011, 12:30 AM

Mom was in bedroom watching toy story. dad and visiting friends watching a basketball game in the living room.

And so at 7:40 the mom sees him in the bedroom. Then around 8 the dad (and everyone else) sees him in the living room. And then they call the police???? (This is what I got from NG the other night)......Is there some better info?

That pretty much sums it up: mom was watching a movie with him and he wandered out, reportedly to his dad where the dad said he kept pulling his hat off while the dad was trying to watch the basketball game (I think this part is important). Then the mom got concerned when she noticed little Joshua had not returned so she went looking for him. No one could find him, so they called the police.

noneareworthy

02-09-2011, 12:33 AM

Maybe the dad saw him at 8 and then at 8:20 the mom realized she hadn't seen him in 40 minutes so she asked the dad and he said 8 and then they spent 20 minutes looking before calling the police. OK. That works...sort of...

justthinkin

02-09-2011, 12:34 AM

If the child has godparents then it would seem the family would have church support, and their church would have offered to hold a vigil.

I'm finding this vigil held at the home kind of strange.

It's also kind of odd that when the story was first reported there was no mention of any other people in the house.

Jovi Girl

02-09-2011, 12:35 AM

I wonder if some of us are skeptical due to the fact that we have seen this before...and the parent/parents are involved in those cases...we have no proof of anything ...so lets keep hoping someone took him....maybe someone at the house that night adored him so much....they took him as their own. It COULD happen.

That pretty much sums it up: mom was watching a movie with him and he wandered out, reportedly to his dad where the dad said he kept pulling his hat off while the dad was trying to watch the basketball game (I think this part is important). Then the mom got concerned when she noticed little Joshua had not returned so she went looking for him. No one could find him, so they called the police.

Your post triggered something scary that happened when my son was a toddler. We were at my parents home and my husband was sitting in one of their big recliners. My son escaped just as I was trying to get him to take a bath so I went to search in livingroom, and just as DH went to stand up, I saw escaped child curled up under the chair. He would have been badly injured if my husband had put all of his weight down and collapsed the footstool. KWIM?

[ i think i read earlier the dad was sitting in the recliner]

Dee10

02-09-2011, 12:47 AM

Random information from an older article:

Family friend Lee Jackson said, “There was one of (Joshua’s) toy balls found at the end of the block. It was on top of some mailboxes. There’s no way he got it up there by himself.”

NBPD officials do not suspect alcohol or drugs played a factor in the family’s awareness of Joshua’s disappearance.

"I last saw my son around 8 last night,” said Josh Davis, Joshua’s father. “He was pulling on my beanie trying to take it off. He was behind my chair. When I told him to stop, he looked at me and smiled.

“Someone took him,” said Michelle Griffin, family friend. “He needs medical attention immediately. He has asthma and other medical conditions.”

Although police officials have questioned Joshua’s parents, Sabrina Benitez, 21, and Josh Davis, 23, other family members present at the time of Joshua’s disappearance and residents in the Savannah Hill Circle neighborhood, family friends are suspicious of a neighbor. The Texas Department of Public Safety’s sex offender registry lists five people who live within a one-mile radius of the house, including one man on Savannah Hill Circle.“The sex offender has been interviewed, and we have also conducted searches on his residence and vehicle. As of right now, we have nothing to believe he’s involved in this case,” Penshorn said.

Just noted this about the individual who came and left between the time Mom saw Joshua last and reported him missing:

One individual came in and out of the house between when Benitez last saw the toddler and reported him missing, but that person is not considered a suspect. Penshorn said police don't think anyone at the house took the child. No Amber Alert has been issued for Joshua because such an alert typically requires solid evidence that an abduction took place.And this about the scent dogs. No scent of him leaving the yard (assuming the dogs were the right type) would imply he never left the yard. But where does that leave the cadaver dogs then? There were no hits by the cadaver dogs, were there?

"They had scent dogs out here, and (they) said there was no scent of him leaving the yard," the toddler's father, Josh Davis Sr., told CNN affiliate KENS. "So I don't see how he could have wandered off, or else they would have picked something up." http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-joshua-davis-missing,0,7686494.story

sarx

02-09-2011, 12:52 AM

Maybe years of being the field has actually been better for me than I thought. I've seen a lot of horrible things, but I've also seen a lot of happy endings. I've been surprised to learn that I was dead wrong when I thought for sure someone was involved and it turned out they weren't. Only a couple of times have I thought a person was innocent when they weren't. Mostly I've learned to not judge or make those decisions as it doesn't change my job and what I'm there to do, in fact it can really lead me astray. I thought I was really jaded, but I'm starting to realize that so many of the "happy endings" or even the simple tragedies never make it here or to the news so the cases in public view end up a bit skewed to the ugly side.

cluciano63

02-09-2011, 12:58 AM

It's just too hard to guess in this case, at least for me. But I do feel there is an adult involved and the idea that one who wanted a child and had a place to stash him just as the child appeared, is too much for me to believe.

LCoastMom

02-09-2011, 01:05 AM

I can see where this young couple would be angry, they said from day 1 they felt Joshua was taken, all weekend mom seemed to feel LE was not interested in her feelings and they were only looking for a child who wandered away.

The parents don't understand why no Amber Alert was called - while I completely understand this did not meet the strict criteria for AA - if it was my baby I might not want to hear that!

While I have a hard time believing an 18 month old baby managed to wander away in 30 to 40 degree weather, if he wasn't taken by someone inside that house, then who? Some kidnapper who randomly happened to be waiting in front of their home? Not likely...

I hope the fact that TES has Josh on their website means they are getting into the search - one way or another, bring this baby home and if someone is involved in his disappearance, throw the book at him or her.

lillys

02-09-2011, 01:06 AM

Looks like things may be changing:
2/8/11
snip

the search.....intensified and shifted focus Tuesday from a recovery effort to a full-blown criminal investigationRead more: http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/Police-continue-search-for-missing-tot-1003212.php#ixzz1DR3KlpnX

Police spoke to the child's pediatrician Tuesday, Penshorn said, and concluded that the child's survivability window in last weekend's sub-freezing weather was only 24 hours. Armed with that information and the numerous searches, it becomes less likely that the child wandered off and died in the elements. “Our searching, from this point on, will be focused on information gathered from tips,” the chief said.
Read more: http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/Police-continue-search-for-missing-tot-1003212.php#ixzz1DR0yyQy2

Noway

02-09-2011, 01:13 AM

This beautiful boy with the awesome eyes and smile continues to be in my prayers.

Nine people in that house. Someone knows something. JMO

momtective

02-09-2011, 01:20 AM

“I last saw my son around 8 last night,” said Josh Davis, Joshua’s father. “He was pulling on my beanie trying to take it off. He was behind my chair. When I told him to stop, he looked at me and smiled.

Really? So we have a house full of people watching a basketball game on TV, baby is behind daddy's chair pestering him and...what happened????

I am so not buying this.

Fairy1

02-09-2011, 01:22 AM

Is it possible LE started off on the completely wrong foot here? Whether someone there that night is responsible for taking Joshua or whether he is thought to be a victim of foul play, it should have been determined immediately - or much sooner, at the least, by LE.

I really find it hard to believe they've wasted days and hella resources searching for a baby they believed wandered away on his own if it was more than likely he didn't.

LCoastMom

02-09-2011, 01:23 AM

Update - Saturday 930PM

New Braunfels Police Department Lt. Michael Penshorn said officers also went door-to-door in the neighborhood. “We’ve made contact with every single homeowner in that entire area.”

He said officials are looking at the case as one in which Joshua simply wandered off. “Our best course of action is to just continue with the search process, presuming that he just wandered off from the residence.”

“We don’t have anything right now that would indicate to us that it is an abduction.

Update Sat 630PM

Police officers contacted about 2,400 homeowners in the area. According to the release, calls to notify the public about the search were sent out to 2,414 residences using the Emergency Notification System.

“There were two messages on my voicemail last night about the missing child,” resident Marie Rierson said. “I received another call this morning from New Braunfels Police Department describing the child.”

OK - just had time to watch a video that was posted toward end of thread#1.

http://www.woai.com/home.aspx

It's the one titled "Search for Joshua is looking more and more desperate" & talks about the bucket & tarp.

In it, the reporter also says the FBI "is not ruling out foul play & that they will be investigating the possibility of a kidnapping".

I understand why LE seems to be leaning this direction as a possibility as they can't find this baby so wandering off might not be what happened.

I'm trying to think of another case where a little one was abducted at a family gathering or party & no one saw anything - and I can't ATM.

Just wish we knew something about what happened to him!!

mysticrose

02-09-2011, 01:34 AM

Did I read that dad said the dogs did not pick up his scent outside of the yard ? Then that tells me Joshua was put in a vehicle and driven away...moo

I'll see if I can find that link brb.....

ETA:

Still, as of Monday, police searches involving people, helicopters and dogs hadn't led to any signs of the boy.

"They had scent dogs out here, and (they) said there was no scent of him leaving the yard," the toddler's father, Josh Davis Sr., told CNN affiliate KENS. "So I don't see how he could have wandered off, or else they would have picked something up."

Did I read that dad said the dogs did not pick up his scent outside of the yard ? Then that tells me Joshua was put in a vehicle and driven away...moo

I'll see if I can find that link brb.....

Well yeah. But don't you find it a bit strange they didn't pick up his scent at all? I mean, he may not have wandered out on his own Friday night, but surely he had been outside before Friday night?

mysticrose

02-09-2011, 01:39 AM

Quick question ? In any of the photos of the home was there a "for sale" sign in the yard, a realtor sign ?
TIA

LCoastMom

02-09-2011, 01:43 AM

Update - Monday 11PM False Leads Hampered Investigation

Authorities have ruled out foul play, says Lt. Michael Penshorn of the New Braunfels police, but investigators interviewed sex offenders nearby and have continued to question family and friends.

Police also have had to quash rumors and red herrings.

The latest was a frantic broadcast report that searchers ripped up the mobile home floor in a search for remains. In fact, according to police, searchers merely opened the trailer's apron and crawled under the home.

A Facebook post Sunday indicated the boy had been sighted on Hunter Road, on the other side of town. It proved to be false, but was discounted only after police sent officers and a dog team out to investigate it.

Another distraction centered on a toy that was found resting on a mailbox. Initial speculation was that it was too high for the child to have placed it there, indicating an adult's involvement in his disappearance. Penshorn, however, explained the ball was an old, forgotten toy found in high weeds and placed on the mailbox by a searcher Saturday or Sunday.

Is it possible LE started off on the completely wrong foot here? Whether someone there that night is responsible for taking Joshua or whether he is thought to be a victim of foul play, it should have been determined immediately - or much sooner, at the least, by LE.

I really find it hard to believe they've wasted days and hella resources searching for a baby they believed wandered away on his own if it was more than likely he didn't.

I think LE is in a lose/lose situation here. On a cold dark night they are pretty much forced to immediately go all out on their search efforts. A toddler could freeze and die in the neighborhood before sunrise.

So if they focused on the various RSO's first and the kid was found curled up in a neighbors yard it would be devastating/ JMO

belimom

02-09-2011, 01:50 AM

Quick question ? In any of the photos of the home was there a "for sale" sign in the yard, a realtor sign ?
TIA

There was on bing.com when I searched the address.

ETA: I can't get a good picture of it but elepher had a good one on the first thread:

I think LE is in a lose/lose situation here. On a cold dark night they are pretty much forced to immediately go all out on their search efforts. A toddler could freeze and die in the neighborhood before sunrise.

So if they focused on the various RSO's first and the kid was found curled up in a neighbors yard it would be devastating/ JMO

True, but it wasn't just that first night. The ground search continued through Sunday. And Josh's Mom seemed to be trying to tell them she thought someone at the home on Friday may have been responsible.

If LE is completely changing direction now, I'm afraid that days have been wasted.

gitana1

02-09-2011, 02:08 AM

It's just too hard to guess in this case, at least for me. But I do feel there is an adult involved and the idea that one who wanted a child and had a place to stash him just as the child appeared, is too much for me to believe.

Darn! I was just about to post how this case could turn it like the one where the little girl was stolen by a distant family friend or relative and raised as that person's child until, the kid was about eight and the mom discovered her in the other person's care. A movie was made about it. Delimar Vera was her name I think. The woman set the house on fire and then snatched the baby I think. It can happen. Who knows?

Texas Mist

02-09-2011, 02:08 AM

Update - Monday 11PM False Leads Hampered Investigation

Authorities have ruled out foul play, says Lt. Michael Penshorn of the New Braunfels police, but investigators interviewed sex offenders nearby and have continued to question family and friends.

Police also have had to quash rumors and red herrings.

The latest was a frantic broadcast report that searchers ripped up the mobile home floor in a search for remains. In fact, according to police, searchers merely opened the trailer's apron and crawled under the home.

A Facebook post Sunday indicated the boy had been sighted on Hunter Road, on the other side of town. It proved to be false, but was discounted only after police sent officers and a dog team out to investigate it.

Another distraction centered on a toy that was found resting on a mailbox. Initial speculation was that it was too high for the child to have placed it there, indicating an adult's involvement in his disappearance. Penshorn, however, explained the ball was an old, forgotten toy found in high weeds and placed on the mailbox by a searcher Saturday or Sunday.

So yesterday (when this article was dated) LE says foul play ruled out...but the FBI shows up & they're saying they're looking at a possible abduction. (I'm guessing because they think baby Joshua should've been found by now.)

Hopefully by tomorrow LE will all be on the same page.

LCoastMom

02-09-2011, 02:10 AM

Did I read that dad said the dogs did not pick up his scent outside of the yard ? Then that tells me Joshua was put in a vehicle and driven away...moo

I'll see if I can find that link brb.....

ETA:

Still, as of Monday, police searches involving people, helicopters and dogs hadn't led to any signs of the boy.

"They had scent dogs out here, and (they) said there was no scent of him leaving the yard," the toddler's father, Josh Davis Sr., told CNN affiliate KENS. "So I don't see how he could have wandered off, or else they would have picked something up."

Sorry. But I can't help but think about poor Jessica Lundsford, across the street from her grandparents home, and being held in a closet by a RSO, still alive, while police and search dogs are on the property, and even interviewing the homeowners.

LCoastMom

02-09-2011, 02:24 AM

So yesterday (when this article was dated) LE says foul play ruled out...but the FBI shows up & they're saying they're looking at a possible abduction. (I'm guessing because they think baby Joshua should've been found by now.)

Hopefully by tomorrow LE will all be on the same page.

I hope so too. I think LE were damned if they do, damned if they don't. If they looked for an abducted child first thing - no way could they have put 100's of searchers, divers and a drone on the ground - so they took a gamble and so far it hasn't paid off.

If he is out there (on his own his own devises) TES should be able to find him him pretty quick - they seem to have divine intervention or something that leads them to the spot no one else sees somehow.

Several of the links I posted were in response to questions I came across while catching up a few pages - someone asked about the house being searched, the RSO's being searched and the comment about the ball being placed on the mailbox - just trying to kill two birds with one stone (so to speak).

LCoastMom

02-09-2011, 02:36 AM

Sorry. But I can't help but think about poor Jessica Lundsford, across the street from her grandparents home, and being held in a closet by a RSO, still alive, while police and search dogs are on the property, and even interviewing the homeowners.

I hear you...

Christopher Barrios, Jr - age 6 - Canal Mobile Home Park, Brunswick, GA. A trailer park, in a rural area surrounded by woods and tidal canals.

Assaulted and murdered by the SO across the street.

I know the first repost from Sat (? or Sunday AM) said the homes nearby had all been checked, but todays news said they hoped to finish by dusk (tonight).

cluciano63

02-09-2011, 02:38 AM

LE had to search initially but I doubt they were so naive to think he only could have wandered off. Sounds like they have been doing all they can from the start, with the door-to-door etc. I'm not sure if they can demand access to homes, even in a situation like this. I wish they could, in the case of a small child missing.

Janeumayer

02-09-2011, 02:41 AM

That pretty much sums it up: mom was watching a movie with him and he wandered out, reportedly to his dad where the dad said he kept pulling his hat off while the dad was trying to watch the basketball game (I think this part is important). Then the mom got concerned when she noticed little Joshua had not returned so she went looking for him. No one could find him, so they called the police.

Jumping from your post: I also think that part is important.

Seeing the pic of Josh Sr. smoking outside of the house at the beginning of the vigil made me think that he could have gone outside for a "smoke", and either let the baby out by mistake or disposed of him. And, nobody would have thought it strange that he was outside for a while. MOO

katydid23

02-09-2011, 02:44 AM

LE had to search initially but I doubt they were so naive to think he only could have wandered off. Sounds like they have been doing all they can from the start, with the door-to-door etc. I'm not sure if they can demand access to homes, even in a situation like this. I wish they could, in the case of a small child missing.

The only homes they can demand immediate access to is where there is an RSO. But they don't always register or update their addies. And they could also stash a child, like in an empty, abandoned or for sale property. Or they could have help.

sarx

02-09-2011, 02:59 AM

Well yeah. But don't you find it a bit strange they didn't pick up his scent at all? I mean, he may not have wandered out on his own Friday night, but surely he had been outside before Friday night?

I for one find it a bit strange. Well, actually I guess I don't. They're not using SAR dogs, so I don't find any of it strange.

I still would not be surprised to see him found in a small body of water nearby. I really don't feel like they have cleared the area. He's tiny, he's easy, really easy to miss, and if he's in water, even a few feet, well.....

Christopher Barrios, Jr - age 6 - Canal Mobile Home Park, Brunswick, GA. A trailer park, in a rural area surrounded by woods and tidal canals.

Assaulted and murdered by the SO across the street.

I know the first repost from Sat (? or Sunday AM) said the homes nearby had all been checked, but todays news said they hoped to finish by dusk (tonight).

The man who murdered Christopher was living there because he was forced to move there, he was living to close to a park.

Christopher was living there because his father was limited on where he could live, also to comply with the residency restrictions.

The man who murdered Christopher was a registered sex offender, for crimes against 7 and 9 year old boys, 10 years earlier.

Christopher's father was a registered sex offender, for a statutory rape conviction, 10 years earlier.

In Joshua's case I don't think there is a sex offender involved at all. Registered or not. I think that he may have wandered away and they simply haven't brought in the right dogs to find him... or it was someone who was at the house that night.

I wonder if they have REALLY checked all of the little places he could be. There are so many of them...

I just hope there are answers. I don't want to see another one go unsolved.

Texas Mist

02-09-2011, 05:38 AM

<snip>

Meanwhile, family members continue to wait and hope, and say while Joshua did wander out of the home, they believe there is more to the story.

"There is no scent of the baby walking away. Obviously somebody had to have taken him, because they have scent of him in the yard, but not of him wandering off. So somebody had to have picked him up, or something, you know, that's what I believe," said Olivia Fernandez, the boy's aunt.

more here

http://www.ksat.com/news/26795647/detail.html

SilkySifaka

02-09-2011, 05:45 AM

So yesterday (when this article was dated) LE says foul play ruled out...but the FBI shows up & they're saying they're looking at a possible abduction. (I'm guessing because they think baby Joshua should've been found by now.)

Hopefully by tomorrow LE will all be on the same page.

I agree, I don't think the pushing of a criminal investigation now has to do with any particular suspicious circimstance except they can't find his little body. That said, there are so many places for a toddler to get into that someone may not have looked and there is no guarantee they had the right sort of dogs.

not_my_kids

02-09-2011, 06:15 AM

A lot of it for me hinges on the search practices here. Yup, they used dogs, but quite possibly not the right ones. The cadaver dogs not hitting at the residence is a good thing, but the search dogs not hitting outside the backyard is a downright negative sign. They should have found something, even if it was an old trail.

There has been so much diversion, people basing their assumptions on an old ball that neither belonged to Joshua nor has any bearing on this case. People focusing on the RSO, even though Joshua is not the type of child that he was convicted of going after. Red herring after red herring.

And then we have the media and LE...the media cannot make up their minds on this case, the same reporters that seem to vilify the parents in the morning, are writing glowing reviews of their dedication the same evening, and let's not forget that a few of these red herrings have hit MSM without any fact checking with LE. And then there is LE themselves, with one branch saying "no foul play" and another saying "Yes, foul play is a possibility." The parents say LE isn't listening to them, and LE doesn't seem to be sharing much info with the parents, which I guess is understandable.

The article with LE saying they will only be following targeted tips from this point on...they don't believe he's out there on his own. Yet, they insist (some branches) that that is exactly what they believe. Where is all the diversion coming from, and why? If it were just the family doing it, that would say something to me about the perp, but it's not the family. They have done a bit, the media has done a bit, and LE has done a bit. Who's really to blame for this child not being found yet?

Inspector Gidget

02-09-2011, 06:20 AM

So the Mom was watching Toy Story for about 40 minutes by herself in the bedroom?
Not knowing where the child was at the time but knowing he is very mobile.Does anyone
else think something is wrong here.I know when my kids were little I would watch a kid movie with them,sometimes over and over.To watch one by myself is another thing.A house with all these people and she is in their by herself?.Someone help me with this please.I sure hope they find him soon

CarmelEyesD

02-09-2011, 06:30 AM

The mom is a few weeks from her due date. My guess was she laid down with him and dozed off-and he went to the room with his dad.

not_my_kids

02-09-2011, 06:35 AM

So the Mom was watching Toy Story for about 40 minutes by herself in the bedroom?
Not knowing where the child was at the time but knowing he is very mobile.Does anyone
else think something is wrong here.I know when my kids were little I would watch a kid movie with them,sometimes over and over.To watch one by myself is another thing.A house with all these people and she is in their by herself?.Someone help me with this please.I sure hope they find him soonIt wasn't 40, it was 10, up until that point Joshua had been popping back into the bedroom every few minutes. That's why when 10 minutes passed with no sign of him, it was enough to alert her that something was wrong. That is the story that we keep hearing from mom and apparently, that is supported by dad. I can't tell you how many times I've had my kids in bed for an hour, and all three adults here will suddenly realize that we are watching Handy manny or Mickey Mouse. And she may not have been just sitting there watching the movie with him. She may have been trying to relax or get him to lay down with her. Remember, she is almost 9 months pregnant. There are times at that stage of pregnancy that you just don't want anyone else around. (Kids are different.) And remember, she knew he was mobile, but so did his father and the five other adults that were just a few feet away.

Someone said there is footage of the dad going outside to have a cigarette. Did they have a strict no smoking rule in the house? To where more than one person could have been ducking outside multiple times to smoke? That wouldn't raise an alarm, might not even raise a memory. And it would be easy for a door to accidentally be left unlocked and/or open if you have a lot of people ducking in and out for a mundane reason like having a cigarette.

I just don't think the parents did it. (Of course, I really wanted to believe that Caylee had a nanny too, so it's not like I've never been wrong.)

not_my_kids

02-09-2011, 06:56 AM

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/02/08/texas.missing.boy/

There are comments on this article that suggest that the pizza delivery guy came in and hung out for awhile and that the party was spread over several houses in the immediate area. As far as I know, this is just rumor, but has anyone else heard anything to this effect? I know this is the first I had heard of it.

Inspector Gidget

02-09-2011, 07:36 AM

I was reading on a news blog that Joshua has a brother that is 6 years old.Is this true?
http://www.kens5.com/home/Missing-toddler-Wandered-off-or-abducted--115405634.html

Inspector Gidget

02-09-2011, 07:48 AM

It wasn't 40, it was 10, up until that point Joshua had been popping back into the bedroom every few minutes. That's why when 10 minutes passed with no sign of him, it was enough to alert her that something was wrong. That is the story that we keep hearing from mom and apparently, that is supported by dad. I can't tell you how many times I've had my kids in bed for an hour, and all three adults here will suddenly realize that we are watching Handy manny or Mickey Mouse. And she may not have been just sitting there watching the movie with him. She may have been trying to relax or get him to lay down with her. Remember, she is almost 9 months pregnant. There are times at that stage of pregnancy that you just don't want anyone else around. (Kids are different.) And remember, she knew he was mobile, but so did his father and the five other adults that were just a few feet away.

Someone said there is footage of the dad going outside to have a cigarette. Did they have a strict no smoking rule in the house? To where more than one person could have been ducking outside multiple times to smoke? That wouldn't raise an alarm, might not even raise a memory. And it would be easy for a door to accidentally be left unlocked and/or open if you have a lot of people ducking in and out for a mundane reason like having a cigarette.

I just don't think the parents did it. (Of course, I really wanted to believe that Caylee had a nanny too, so it's not like I've never been wrong.)

Thanks for correcting me:)I am just trying to work through this and I would
love to think the parents had nothing to do with this.::innocent:

Sarahlou

02-09-2011, 08:04 AM

I've been following this case from the start and I'm finding it quite baffling. But I have a feeling when we find out what happened it will seem obvious, if that makes sense?
Anyway I don't have anything of interest to add, I just hope they find the poor baby soon.

Inspector Gidget

02-09-2011, 08:14 AM

I've been following this case from the start and I'm finding it quite baffling. But I have a feeling when we find out what happened it will seem obvious, if that makes sense?
Anyway I don't have anything of interest to add, I just hope they find the poor baby soon.

I know what you are saying.I have been looking for the obvious,can't yet find it.Like maybe he crawled into a tight space and can't get out or make a sound inside the double wide.I know one thing the longer this goes on the outlook won't be good

SurfieTX

02-09-2011, 08:38 AM

Another cold front for Texas. :( Temperatures will be dropping to freezing again with sleet and ice.

Prayers for Joshua, the searchers and his family.

Trident

02-09-2011, 08:55 AM

It wasn't 40, it was 10, up until that point Joshua had been popping back into the bedroom every few minutes. That's why when 10 minutes passed with no sign of him, it was enough to alert her that something was wrong. That is the story that we keep hearing from mom and apparently, that is supported by dad. I can't tell you how many times I've had my kids in bed for an hour, and all three adults here will suddenly realize that we are watching Handy manny or Mickey Mouse. And she may not have been just sitting there watching the movie with him. She may have been trying to relax or get him to lay down with her. Remember, she is almost 9 months pregnant. There are times at that stage of pregnancy that you just don't want anyone else around. (Kids are different.) And remember, she knew he was mobile, but so did his father and the five other adults that were just a few feet away.

Someone said there is footage of the dad going outside to have a cigarette. Did they have a strict no smoking rule in the house? To where more than one person could have been ducking outside multiple times to smoke? That wouldn't raise an alarm, might not even raise a memory. And it would be easy for a door to accidentally be left unlocked and/or open if you have a lot of people ducking in and out for a mundane reason like having a cigarette.

I just don't think the parents did it. (Of course, I really wanted to believe that Caylee had a nanny too, so it's not like I've never been wrong.)

BBM I have an asthmatic granddaughter, therefore, we all go outside to smoke, many times during a gathering. It is conceivable the child could have come outside during that time, or the door was not firmly latched. Not uncommon at all for the adults to go in and out to smoke.

nursebeeme

02-09-2011, 09:03 AM

Searches by cadaver dogs turned up empty handed. The Department of Public Safety helicopter circled Joshua's neighborhood Tuesday, as dive teams combed through ponds and creeks near the child's home. Investigators say they have also recovered a tarp and a bucket from the home, which could be submitted as evidence.

Police say there are no suspects or persons of interest in the case, but Joshua's family believes the toddler was abducted from the home. The FBI is also involved in the investigation, and tell News 4 WOAI they are not ruling out any foul play.

Aww he is so cute and Nancy Grace was right he looks like the Gerber baby.Precious and
Precious.I could not fathom any one that would want to hurt that child.

FaerieB

02-09-2011, 10:38 AM

Police say it’s less likely boy wandered off
Disappearance now an all-out investigation.

“Although we are still searching, we are shifting more toward an investigation,” said Lt. Michael Penshorn of the New Braunfels Police Department. “We'll still search, but we're going to focus more on other areas of interest.”

Those areas included forensic evidence as well as statements from the family and friends, Police Chief Thomas Wibert said.

Lt. Mike Penshorn, with the New Braunfels Police Department, said investigators did try to file for the alert but were turned down.

"Being that we did not have any suspicious vehicles, suspicious persons or anything to lead us (to think) that it was an abduction, when we did send the information to conduct an Amber Alert, that was part of the criteria that it said that it did not meet," he said.

http://www.ksat.com/news/26777831/detail.html

LCoastMom

02-09-2011, 11:15 AM

I was reading on a news blog that Joshua has a brother that is 6 years old.Is this true?
http://www.kens5.com/home/Missing-toddler-Wandered-off-or-abducted--115405634.html

Yes the 6 year old was the other child reported to be in the house - he is in a couple of the photos with Josh's mom.

peeples

02-09-2011, 11:21 AM

Yes the 6 year old was the other child reported to be in the house - he is in a couple of the photos with Josh's mom.

“Although we are still searching, our primary focus is shifting more towards the investigation aspect,” said New Braunfels Police Department Lt. Michael Penshorn. “We are investigating to find out exactly what happened to Joshua Davis on the evening in question.”

RBM

I know I commented on this earlier, but I went back and this sentence stood out. They seem to be focusing on exactly what happened that evening, not later -- such as, if he wandered away and where he could be that evening/early next morning, kwim? To me, that also confirms that they think there's more to the story and they're trying to get to the bottom of it.

IDK - maybe I'm reading too much into that statement.

ghettovet

02-09-2011, 11:24 AM

just finished reading the threads on this case. another one of those nobody saw what happened kind of deals. i do not buy this story at all. someone in that house saw what happened to the baby in my opinion. one more thing that is bothering me is that there is no mention of putting the baby to bed. They were watching toy story at 8. seems late for an 18 month old to be up and about. no mention of what the childs normal bed time was. no mention of whether he had his own bedroom either. if she was trying to get the child to sleep(which i do not believe she has said) than why would she let him wander out of the room? my little boy just turned 2 so i cant help but think about the normal bedtime and bedtime activities that take place in my home. not that everyone is the same, and not casting any judgements, but it just seems to be a little late for him to be up anyway. was he a poor sleeper? did he share a room with the parents? any thoughts?

belimom

02-09-2011, 11:32 AM

just finished reading the threads on this case. another one of those nobody saw what happened kind of deals. i do not buy this story at all. someone in that house saw what happened to the baby in my opinion. one more thing that is bothering me is that there is no mention of putting the baby to bed. They were watching toy story at 8. seems late for an 18 month old to be up and about. no mention of what the childs normal bed time was. no mention of whether he had his own bedroom either. if she was trying to get the child to sleep(which i do not believe she has said) than why would she let him wander out of the room? my little boy just turned 2 so i cant help but think about the normal bedtime and bedtime activities that take place in my home. not that everyone is the same, and not casting any judgements, but it just seems to be a little late for him to be up anyway. was he a poor sleeper? did he share a room with the parents? any thoughts?

I agree that one (or more) of the adults in that home know what happened that night. And I believe there was foul play.

As far as bedtime, my oldest never had (and still doesn't have) regular sleep patterns. At that age, he went to bed fairly late, IIRC. (My 2nd one is completely different - almost like clockwork). But the oldest, not so much. I think it's because we co-slept as a family longer with him -- so maybe they were doing that here? I don't know so that part doesn't stand out to me.

What I do know is that Toy Story would not hold an 18-month-old's attention for long at all. The characters are too small/busy and move too fast, and it is too long. Short shows like Baby Einstein, Barney, Sesame Street with large character faces that move more slowly - perhaps. So it doesn't surprise me that he wandered around instead of sitting still and watching Toy Story for any length of time. JMHO

nyc

02-09-2011, 11:35 AM

just finished reading the threads on this case. another one of those nobody saw what happened kind of deals. i do not buy this story at all. someone in that house saw what happened to the baby in my opinion. one more thing that is bothering me is that there is no mention of putting the baby to bed. They were watching toy story at 8. seems late for an 18 month old to be up and about. no mention of what the childs normal bed time was. no mention of whether he had his own bedroom either. if she was trying to get the child to sleep(which i do not believe she has said) than why would she let him wander out of the room? my little boy just turned 2 so i cant help but think about the normal bedtime and bedtime activities that take place in my home. not that everyone is the same, and not casting any judgements, but it just seems to be a little late for him to be up anyway. was he a poor sleeper? did he share a room with the parents? any thoughts?

I regularly put my 18-month-old to bed after 8 pm. He takes a long afternoon nap and if he goes to bed a little after 8, will sleep a little later in the morning. I don't find that so strange. But the whereabouts of this poor little boy are strange and mysterious. This is such a sad story, and does not look good.

curiousc

02-09-2011, 11:37 AM

So the Mom was watching Toy Story for about 40 minutes by herself in the bedroom?
Not knowing where the child was at the time but knowing he is very mobile.Does anyone
else think something is wrong here.I know when my kids were little I would watch a kid movie with them,sometimes over and over.To watch one by myself is another thing.A house with all these people and she is in their by herself?.Someone help me with this please.I sure hope they find him soon

I do see what you are saying but she's 8 months pregnant? By that time of night and with other kids and pregnant, I was dead tired. She probably thought that family was over and Joshua would be well taken care of.

TXHOPE

02-09-2011, 11:39 AM

I agree that one (or more) of the adults in that home know what happened that night. And I believe there was foul play.

As far as bedtime, my oldest never had (and still doesn't have) regular sleep patterns. At that age, he went to bed fairly late, IIRC. (My 2nd one is completely different - almost like clockwork). But the oldest, not so much. I think it's because we co-slept as a family longer with him -- so maybe they were doing that here? I don't know.

What I do know is that Toy Story would not hold an 18-month-old's attention for long at all. The pictures are too small and move too fast, and it was too long. Short segments like Baby Einstein, Barney, Sesame Street - perhaps. So it doesn't surprise me that he wandered around instead of sitting still and watching Toy Story for any length of time. JMHO

I agree belimom and my 2 year old won't go to sleep if we have a house full of people-no way. He wants to be in the middle of everything and doesn't want to miss anything. However when my oldest was 2 he would crash out anywhere and didn't care who was there. Every baby is different. It sounds to me like she may have been trying to get him to settle down by watching the movie but he kept wanting to see what was going on with everyone else in the livingroom.

nursebeeme

02-09-2011, 11:42 AM

New Braunfels police are offering a $5,000 reward for tips leading them to the missing toddler.
http://www.kvue.com/news/SEARCH-CONTINUES-FOR-MISSING-TODDLER-115595194.html

Daisyjane

02-09-2011, 11:43 AM

just finished reading the threads on this case. another one of those nobody saw what happened kind of deals. i do not buy this story at all. someone in that house saw what happened to the baby in my opinion. one more thing that is bothering me is that there is no mention of putting the baby to bed. They were watching toy story at 8. seems late for an 18 month old to be up and about. no mention of what the childs normal bed time was. no mention of whether he had his own bedroom either. if she was trying to get the child to sleep(which i do not believe she has said) than why would she let him wander out of the room? my little boy just turned 2 so i cant help but think about the normal bedtime and bedtime activities that take place in my home. not that everyone is the same, and not casting any judgements, but it just seems to be a little late for him to be up anyway. was he a poor sleeper? did he share a room with the parents? any thoughts?

Well, that looks to be a small house. Lots of ruckus in the next room (watching sports, yay-boo cheering, loud talking). Interesting people, fun snacks, I'm not surprised that he was up & about, toddling back and forth from the bedroom to the living room. And amid all that noise and commotion, I don't find it impossible that he slipped outside unnoticed, especially if the adults were coming and going in and out the door.

Jovi Girl

02-09-2011, 11:52 AM

Are the Christmas photos the most recent ones of Joshua ??

TxLady2

02-09-2011, 11:52 AM

just finished reading the threads on this case. another one of those nobody saw what happened kind of deals. i do not buy this story at all. someone in that house saw what happened to the baby in my opinion. one more thing that is bothering me is that there is no mention of putting the baby to bed. They were watching toy story at 8. seems late for an 18 month old to be up and about. no mention of what the childs normal bed time was. no mention of whether he had his own bedroom either. if she was trying to get the child to sleep(which i do not believe she has said) than why would she let him wander out of the room? my little boy just turned 2 so i cant help but think about the normal bedtime and bedtime activities that take place in my home. not that everyone is the same, and not casting any judgements, but it just seems to be a little late for him to be up anyway. was he a poor sleeper? did he share a room with the parents? any thoughts?

I don't think there would be an expectation of any normalcy with that many people gathered in the house to watch a ballgame, do you? My guess that these are not parents who don't follow strict guidelines like kids going to bed at certain times or a bedtime routine. But even if they do try to keep a routine, that would be pretty hard to do with a bunch of adults hooting and hollering during a game. I'm sure all these relatives don't live there but I'm just guessing.

jessicat

02-09-2011, 11:58 AM

Woke up this morning and it was 45, it is now 25 with a very cold wind blowing and sleet. Where is this poor baby? I fear there is something we are missing here. I watched the interview from NG that I had dvr'd. Something just is gnawing at me on this one...something ain't right.

TxLady2

02-09-2011, 12:01 PM

The mother claims that the door was closed all day. Am I correct that there is a storm door that wouldn't stay latched? I recall her telling NG that he could not reach the knob on the main door.
I just do not believe they are going to find this baby alive. And realistically, I don't think he could have wandered that far off without something awful happening. I hate to say this but coyotes prowl at night and they do prey on small animals. A baby that size.... horrible to think of but the possibility is still there.
Such an adorable little boy... what a shame!

LCoastMom

02-09-2011, 12:19 PM

The mother claims that im leaving the yard isthe door was closed all day. Am I correct that there is a storm door that wouldn't stay latched? I recall her telling NG that he could not reach the knob on the main door.
I just do not believe they are going to find this baby alive. And realistically, I don't think he could have wandered that far off without something awful happening. I hate to say this but coyotes prowl at night and they do prey on small animals. A baby that size.... horrible to think of but the possibility is still there.
Such an adorable little boy... what a shame!

If he were grabbed by a four legged predator there would have been some signs of a struggle/blood trail. The SR dogs should have been able to follow that trail IMO.

There are too many things that don't add up in this story - the dogs not finding any trace of him leaving the yard is just one problem...

not_my_kids

02-09-2011, 12:20 PM

Police believe the child wandered away from the home, however, Lt. Mike Penshorn says they are "confident" he is not within a mile radius of the home. Law enforcement officers expanded their search area by another mile Tuesday and used dive teams and drones to search the area surrounding the home in the 2600 block of Savannah Hill Circle.

Investigators also removed a tarp and a bucket from the backyard of the home, which could be considered evidence. Penshorn could not say how long the items had been there or why they were taken.
http://www.woai.com/news/local/story/Family-holds-prayer-vigil-for-missing-toddler/IL_MUv0pl0irrjzzrP3_VQ.cspx

Not really anything new there.

not_my_kids

02-09-2011, 12:39 PM

Additional FBI agents arrived Tuesday from the agency's behavioral science unit in Quantico, Va., and were reviewing the information that had been obtained earlier in the investigation, Penshorn said.
"They specialize in cases involving missing children."
Seven FBI agents are now on the case. The other agents also have experience in such cases, he said.
"They're providing expertise regarding missing children and also have access to additional resources, which I'm sure we'll be utilizing in the near future."
Texas Rangers and representatives from the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children are also helping in the investigation.
Penshorn said all of the participating agencies have concurred with the NBPD's actions in the conduct of the investigation.

Color me crazy, but typically the BSU doesn't show up for cases of children that wandered away. And it seems that even a routine update has now become an opportunity for the local LE to play CYA. That's never good. The focus should never be "We did all we could." It should be, "What we have done is not enough, because he isn't home yet." When the comments about LE all supporting each other in a case start flying this far in...it just makes me nervous.

Tuffy

02-09-2011, 12:50 PM

The mother claims that the door was closed all day. Am I correct that there is a storm door that wouldn't stay latched? I recall her telling NG that he could not reach the knob on the main door.
I just do not believe they are going to find this baby alive. And realistically, I don't think he could have wandered that far off without something awful happening. I hate to say this but coyotes prowl at night and they do prey on small animals. A baby that size.... horrible to think of but the possibility is still there.
Such an adorable little boy... what a shame!

Even if he did wander away, and did not fall victim to a coyote or something, the weather is way too cold at night for him to have survived. Right now, a cold front has moved in, and it's 26 degrees out. :(

If he is alive right now, I think he would have to be with someone. I really don't think that happened. To me it's really baffling, I can't imagine what has happened to little Joshua.

Dee10

02-09-2011, 12:51 PM

Have we heard what the 6 year old was doing? I assume he was awake. He could be a very key witness. I am sure they have carefully interviewed him, I just don't remember reading what he was doing during that evening.

Tuffy

02-09-2011, 12:54 PM

Woke up this morning and it was 45, it is now 25 with a very cold wind blowing and sleet. Where is this poor baby? I fear there is something we are missing here. I watched the interview from NG that I had dvr'd. Something just is gnawing at me on this one...something ain't right.

I just took my dog out for a quick walk. It is very gusty. The cold just cut right through my jacket. Really scattered flurries, and there was ice on the sidewalk. Needless to say, I was a really quick walk, then we came back in.

I can't imagine an little baby out in that, not dressed as he was. :(

Daisyjane

02-09-2011, 01:03 PM

Has it been mentioned anywhere whether Joshua was last seen wearing shoes? That would be a big factor as to how far he could have travelled on foot.

peeples

02-09-2011, 01:06 PM

Has it been mentioned anywhere whether Joshua was last seen wearing shoes? That would be a big factor as to how far he could have travelled on foot.

Just socks :( :(

not_my_kids

02-09-2011, 01:12 PM

Has it been mentioned anywhere whether Joshua was last seen wearing shoes? That would be a big factor as to how far he could have travelled on foot.

To the best of the media knowledge, he had no shoes and no coat.

fhc

02-09-2011, 01:13 PM

Have we heard what the 6 year old was doing? I assume he was awake. He could be a very key witness. I am sure they have carefully interviewed him, I just don't remember reading what he was doing during that evening.

He was in another room with Gpa, that is where the mother cked first before cking the living rm, iirc

peeples

02-09-2011, 01:28 PM

I just had to comment on something LOL Someone said earlier it kinda made ya go HMM that the mom was watching toy story alone..
My house is empty it's just me and hte pets and i'm watching Handy manny LOL
I'm laying down the remote is across the room and I haven't see this one before those are my excuses LOL ;)

Does anyone have a timeline they can bring over? I think I saw one on the last thread, but I don't know how to copy a post. I know it won't be real tight, but still nice to have.

I'm working on a list of important statements, those directly quoted from LE nd the parents, but it's taking awhile.

katydid23

02-09-2011, 01:47 PM

I just had to comment on something LOL Someone said earlier it kinda made ya go HMM that the mom was watching toy story alone..
My house is empty it's just me and hte pets and i'm watching Handy manny LOL
I'm laying down the remote is across the room and I haven't see this one before those are my excuses LOL ;)

The way she explained it actually made sense to me because I used to try the same thing when my kids were toddlers. First of all she is over 8 months pregnant, so I can easily see her laying down in bed watching a movie with him, trying to get him to go to sleep. So he kept leaving the room and coming back. Again, makes sense because Dad has loud friends watching the BBall game in the livingroom. way more exciting than Toy Story and mom. And big brother is with Grandpa across the hall. So I can easily see pregnant mom continuing to lay down watching the movie, waiting for the boy to return. After awhile she went looking, probably expecting to find him in Dad's lap, and was going to put his pj's on him. So very sad whatever happened.

Nicki077

02-09-2011, 01:48 PM

This is heartbreaking. Poor Baby. It is scary to think of ANY of the possibilities that could have happened to him if he did in fact "wander" off alone. I have a really hard time believing that is what happened here. IMO, because of his age, the weather, how he was dressed. However, these things can happen and without any proof of an abduction it remains a possibility.

I hate to even type this but could this have been a crime of opportunity. If Joshua did in fact get out of the house on his own and wandered a little ways and someone saw him and either: As I read in a previous post, someone who wanted a child thought that because a baby was wandering in the cold at night with no coat and in socks, that they had some right to take him because they might have been thinking "what kind of parents let this happen". Even as I type I realize this is best case and most likely wishful thinking because it would mean he is being well cared for and NOT victimized by a predator. OR: A SO saw him and took him and that thought makes my brain wants to shut down.

IMO, the best case scenario here is that someone did in fact take him and he's still alive and being cared for, which is still scary.

I agree that this baby looks like he was healthy and well cared for and makes me want to scream "HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN????"

One last thought about him wandering off by himself. I know that some 18 month olds can walk pretty good BUT, I have seen a LOT of babies at this age (I have a 22 yr old son and 13 nieces and nephews) and even when they are good walkers that young they can only walk good on stable surfaces like a floor or blacktop. Once they hit the grassy areas or rocks, wooded areas etc... They become unstable and IMO would not be able to get very far on their own especially in socks KWIM?

Praying for Joshua and his family.

ALL MOO.

belimom

02-09-2011, 01:51 PM

Have we heard what the 6 year old was doing? I assume he was awake. He could be a very key witness. I am sure they have carefully interviewed him, I just don't remember reading what he was doing during that evening.

He was in another room with Gpa, that is where the mother cked first before cking the living rm, iirc

I just had to comment on something LOL Someone said earlier it kinda made ya go HMM that the mom was watching toy story alone..
My house is empty it's just me and hte pets and i'm watching Handy manny LOL
I'm laying down the remote is across the room and I haven't see this one before those are my excuses LOL ;)

:waitasec:

I had always assumed that Toy Story was for the 6-yr-old...? I must have missed that the 6-yr-old was with grandpa. Then that leaves two less people to witness whatever happened that night regarding little Joshua's movements throughout the home.

Somewhere, I thought I read that mom had gotten up from watching the movie to check on a younger (?) sibling? Does anyone remember that? There was also a picture of a little girl seen near dad in the link provided yesterday with the photos of the house/search. Who is this? She didn't really look 6 to me, but I could be wrong.

mkay882

02-09-2011, 02:10 PM

<snip>

Meanwhile, family members continue to wait and hope, and say while Joshua did wander out of the home, they believe there is more to the story.

"There is no scent of the baby walking away. Obviously somebody had to have taken him, because they have scent of him in the yard, but not of him wandering off. So somebody had to have picked him up, or something, you know, that's what I believe," said Olivia Fernandez, the boy's aunt.

more here

http://www.ksat.com/news/26795647/detail.html

Weren't dogs able to trail Laci Peterson to the bay area from her home? She obviously hadn't walked away either. :waitasec:
I agree someone may have taken him though. Praying Joshua is found soon.

peeples

02-09-2011, 02:16 PM

Question for SARX..
What if he'd been taken from the home is something air tight, large rubbermaid garbage can,? 18 gallon tote.. something like that with a secure lid.. No scent would be able to escape right??? which would leave the dogs scratching their heads because there would be no scent..
But like someone else said.... why weren't they tracking previous/older scent form when he's been in the yard playing...?
the HRD dogs didn't hit on anything we've heard of either..... that leaves me to ASSume he was alive when last in the house....

I just don't know what to think.. just typing out loud.....

Nicki077

02-09-2011, 02:19 PM

I would assume that the parents have checked to see if anything was missing from the home. Specifically the asthma medicine? I know he didn't have a coat on so again am assuming they have his coat and shoes.

(NOT saying this is what happened) but IF someone that was in their home took Joshua they would have known he had asthma right? These were all family & friends. MOO.

cluciano63

02-09-2011, 02:23 PM

I don't see how the dogs can be trusted if they did not pick up any scent of the little boy; there should have been a scent from earlier in the day or the day before, whenever he last left the home with his parents. And if there is truly no scent outside, that would mean he is inside, which hardly seems likely at this point.

I am just stunned that he cannot be found. I think they may have waited too long to expand the search to two miles. Even if Joshua did not walk out and leave on his own, someone may have taken him a short distance away and left him, outside the original one mile radius. I think (and fear) he is out there, not too far from the home but more than a mile away.

belimom

02-09-2011, 02:27 PM

Question for SARX..
What if he'd been taken from the home is something air tight, large rubbermaid garbage can,? 18 gallon tote.. something like that with a secure lid.. No scent would be able to escape right??? which would leave the dogs scratching their heads because there would be no scent..
But like someone else said.... why weren't they tracking previous/older scent form when he's been in the yard playing...?
the HRD dogs didn't hit on anything we've heard of either..... that leaves me to ASSume he was alive when last in the house....

I just don't know what to think.. just typing out loud.....

I'm not Sarx (sorry...) and Sarx may correct me, but I think SAR dogs can pick up a scent even if in a container, or a car, or under water, etc.... I guess it depends on the dog, the handler, and their training. (Okay, that last sentence - I'm really talking about stuff I don't know about)

belimom

02-09-2011, 02:29 PM

I don't see how the dogs can be trusted if they did not pick up any scent of the little boy; there should have been a scent from earlier in the day or the day before, whenever he last left the home with his parents. And if there is truly no scent outside, that would mean he is inside, which hardly seems likely at this point.

I am just stunned that he cannot be found. I think they may have waited too long to expand the search to two miles. Even if Joshua did not walk out and leave on his own, someone may have taken him a short distance away and left him, outside the original one mile radius. I think (and fear) he is out there, not too far from the home but more than a mile away.

bbm

I wonder when the last time was that anyone outside that group saw him...? Or, outside the parents? I wonder if the others in the home remember him taking his dad's hat off?

Just questions - thinking out loud.

SurfieTX

02-09-2011, 02:43 PM

Has it been said how long mom and dad have been together? It looks like they are not married. Joshua is 18 months, so she got pregnant when he was about 10/11 months old. I'm trying to get a grasp on how "tight" this family was. Did they hang out together a lot? Everyone get along well? I'm sure LE has looked into that angle...or at least I hope they have.

I still can't get over the dogs not being able to track him. The child had a diaper on for goodness sakes! Anyone who has had any kids knows that an unchanged diaper for a period of time is going to have a strong odor.

sarx

02-09-2011, 02:46 PM

Has it been said how long mom and dad have been together? It looks like they are not married. Joshua is 18 months, so she got pregnant when he was about 10/11 months old. I'm trying to get a grasp on how "tight" this family was. Did they hang out together a lot? Everyone get along well? I'm sure LE has looked into that angle...or at least I hope they have.

I still can't get over the dogs not being able to track him. The child had a diaper on for goodness sakes! Anyone who has had any kids knows that an unchanged diaper for a period of time is going to have a strong odor.

Question on this, I'm seeing conflicting reports on what he was last wearing. I swear I saw somewhere jeans and a shirt, and I've seen a diaper, am I losing my mind?

SurfieTX

02-09-2011, 02:47 PM

Question on this, I'm seeing conflicting reports on what he was last wearing. I swear I saw somewhere jeans and a shirt, and I've seen a diaper, am I losing my mind?

I've read the jeans and shirt, but surely he had a diaper on underneath the jeans. I highly doubt he was fully potty trained at 18 months.

sarx

02-09-2011, 02:48 PM

Yes, there is still going to be scent if someone is put in something. It's going to be there somewhere. The only way there is going to be no scent is via aliens beeming a person up.
And yes, I am with all you who can't figure out why they couldn't find any scent or trail. This was the child's home. That speaks volumes imo.

peeples

02-09-2011, 02:48 PM

Question on this, I'm seeing conflicting reports on what he was last wearing. I swear I saw somewhere jeans and a shirt, and I've seen a diaper, am I losing my mind?

I'm sure he was wearing tan pants and a couple shirts, BUT at 18 months i' positive there was a diaper on under the clothes.

<<Snipped>> Asked if all 7 adults from the house had been given the poly - Josh Sr first said 'Yes, I took 3'... but then added 'mom was not given the test because she is pregnant' she wanted to be tested but was not.

peeples

02-09-2011, 02:51 PM

Dad took 3???

Ok i first read about multiple poly's in Hailey Dunn's case and now i see it again.. is it normal to give them till someone passes????
Doesn't that defeat the purpose?

<<Snipped>> Asked if all 7 adults from the house had been given the poly - Josh Sr first said 'Yes, I took 3'... but then added 'mom was not given the test because she is pregnant' she wanted to be tested but was not.

I had never heard that about pregnant women but found this:

http://www.professionallitigationservices.com/polygraphfaq.asp#errors

Can a pregnant woman undergo a polygraph examination?

Pregnancy does not affect the outcome of a polygraph exam unless the fetus is making excessive movements or causing pain to the mother. As a standard practice, for liability reasons only, we do not examine a pregnant woman. Exceptions have been made in the past as long as the mother knows and waives any liability on the part of the examiner and Professional Litigation & Polygraph Services, LLC. If an examination is required, a note from the woman's physician stating that there are no complications from the pregnancy and that the stress of undergoing a polygraph would not impact the health of the mother or fetus may be required prior to the examination.

LCoastMom

02-09-2011, 02:56 PM

I've read the jeans and shirt, but surely he had a diaper on underneath the jeans. I highly doubt he was fully potty trained at 18 months.

A blue and red long sleeve shirt and a grey long sleeve t-shirt, a beige and white onesy and beige jeans, and black and white socks.

Exactly - No one in their right mind puts a "Onsy" on a toddler who uses the potty - (learned the hard way :crazy:).

peeples

02-09-2011, 02:57 PM

Stress could bring on premature labor i suppose.. and after about 34 weeks, things are soo cramped that every time they move it's either into the ribs or onto your bladder and it is uncomfortable... so i guess i can see why she didn't.

momtective

02-09-2011, 02:58 PM

Woke up this morning and it was 45, it is now 25 with a very cold wind blowing and sleet. Where is this poor baby? I fear there is something we are missing here. I watched the interview from NG that I had dvr'd. Something just is gnawing at me on this one...something ain't right.

BBM Most definitely, something ain't right!

Additional FBI agents arrived Tuesday from the agency's behavioral science unit in Quantico, Va., and were reviewing the information that had been obtained earlier in the investigation, Penshorn said.
"They specialize in cases involving missing children."
Seven FBI agents are now on the case. The other agents also have experience in such cases, he said.
"They're providing expertise regarding missing children and also have access to additional resources, which I'm sure we'll be utilizing in the near future."
Texas Rangers and representatives from the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children are also helping in the investigation.
Penshorn said all of the participating agencies have concurred with the NBPD's actions in the conduct of the investigation.

Color me crazy, but typically the BSU doesn't show up for cases of children that wandered away. And it seems that even a routine update has now become an opportunity for the local LE to play CYA. That's never good. The focus should never be "We did all we could." It should be, "What we have done is not enough, because he isn't home yet." When the comments about LE all supporting each other in a case start flying this far in...it just makes me nervous.

BBMBecause LE has seen the same displays of emotion...or should I say lack thereof, that we have seen. :banghead:
Something is sooooo not right with the story of how Joshua disappeared. jmo

peeples

02-09-2011, 02:58 PM

Tan jeans, a 'ONSY', 2 long sleeve shirts and black 'n white socks.

Exactly - No one in their right mind puts a "Onsy" on a toddler who uses the potty - (learned the hard way :crazy:).

LOL!! Agreed!!

MsFacetious

02-09-2011, 03:02 PM

There was also mention of a "baby in the other room" with the grandfather... that Joshua was "interested in." I never heard the 6 year old was in the room with the grandfather. I never heard a single word about where or what the 6 year old did.

That's why I wonder so much... if the 6 year old closed a door someone left open, not realizing Joshua had gotten out. Or if the 6 year old opened a door that nobody knows he opened and Joshua got out.

So I'm not sure if there was another baby in the house that night or not, but I have not heard Sabrina mention the 6 year old. Just the 7 adults and the "baby in the other room."

There has been kids all over there since Joshua went missing. That 6 year old is the only other sibling.

I was reading on a news blog that Joshua has a brother that is 6 years old.Is this true?
http://www.kens5.com/home/Missing-toddler-Wandered-off-or-abducted--115405634.html

Yes.

HOw old is the mother???
Oy Vey
:banghead:

The 6 year old does not appear to be Sabrina's. It appears to be her stepson. There have been conflicting reports on this with some reporting she is expecting her third child, but I'm pretty sure that they just grouped this little boy in there. I think Sabrina is actually expecting her second child and all together they have three. The 6 year old appears to be from a previous relationship of Dad's.

I believe the parents are 21/23.

I would assume that the parents have checked to see if anything was missing from the home. Specifically the asthma medicine? I know he didn't have a coat on so again am assuming they have his coat and shoes.

(NOT saying this is what happened) but IF someone that was in their home took Joshua they would have known he had asthma right? These were all family & friends. MOO.

They would have needed to take the equipment too, not just the medication. Unless they themselves have the equipment already. So if the medication was gone, but not the machine I'd be looking at anyone who would already have a machine!

SurfieTX

02-09-2011, 03:02 PM

Tan jeans, a 'ONSY', 2 long sleeve shirts and black 'n white socks.

Exactly - No one in their right mind puts a "Onsy" on a toddler who uses the potty - (learned the hard way :crazy:).

I wonder if they had been out previously that day. Is it just me or does a onesy and 2 long-sleeved shirts with jeans seem a bit excessive indoors for a child who is presumably watching a movie (in bed with blankets?) with mom? Or, had he been in and out during the afternoon/early evening with the smokers and/or other children?

not_my_kids

02-09-2011, 03:04 PM

bbm

I wonder when the last time was that anyone outside that group saw him...? Or, outside the parents? I wonder if the others in the home remember him taking his dad's hat off?

Just questions - thinking out loud.

If that group of people was the main social base for this child, as it seems it could have been, (parents, sibling, godparent, and grandparents), then even if no one else has seen him in a while, that wouldn't be that odd. As for someone outside the parents, if the grandfather reported him missing, it would seem that at least the grandfather saw him that night. (Although there is only one article that says gpa was the reporting party, so I don't know if we can trust that one yet.)

cluciano63

02-09-2011, 03:04 PM

Is LE searching right now in their expanded radius, does anyone know? Are they allowing volunteers to search as well, or doing this one on their own?

If LE suspects one of the adults from the home, I doubt they drove very far to dispose of the baby, if he was killed. Maybe to a nearby complex or development with large trash containers/dumpsters? To get him out of their neighborhood? How far would such a place be from their home?

not_my_kids

02-09-2011, 03:05 PM

I'm going with the NCMEC description, which includes diaper.

peeples

02-09-2011, 03:06 PM

There was also mention of a "baby in the other room" with the grandfather... that Joshua was "interested in." I never heard the 6 year old was in the room with the grandfather. I never heard a single word about where or what the 6 year old did.

That's why I wonder so much... if the 6 year old closed a door someone left open, not realizing Joshua had gotten out. Or if the 6 year old opened a door that nobody knows he opened and Joshua got out.

So I'm not sure if there was another baby in the house that night or not, but I have not heard Sabrina mention the 6 year old. Just the 7 adults and the "baby in the other room."

There has been kids all over there since Joshua went missing. That 6 year old is the only other sibling.

Yes.

The 6 year old does not appear to be Sabrina's. It appears to be her stepson. There have been conflicting reports on this with some reporting she is expecting her third child, but I'm pretty sure that they just grouped this little boy in there. I think Sabrina is actually expecting her second child and all together they have three. The 6 year old appears to be from a previous relationship of Dad's.

I believe the parents are 21/23.

They would have needed to take the equipment too, not just the medication. Unless they themselves have the equipment already. So if the medication was gone, but not the machine I'd be looking at anyone who would already have a machine!

Thanks!!

and Definitely on the nebulizer.... little ones cannot use an inhaler, it must be a neb. and flare ups happen in winter a lot more often then in summer. I have 2 children with asthma. Face masks for the little ones are also usually used but the basic neb. attachment can be used in a pinch if you take off the mouth piece and just hold the "fog" in front of the littles one's face so they can breathe it in.

SurfieTX

02-09-2011, 03:11 PM

There was also mention of a "baby in the other room" with the grandfather... that Joshua was "interested in." I never heard the 6 year old was in the room with the grandfather. I never heard a single word about where or what the 6 year old did.

That's why I wonder so much... if the 6 year old closed a door someone left open, not realizing Joshua had gotten out. Or if the 6 year old opened a door that nobody knows he opened and Joshua got out.

So I'm not sure if there was another baby in the house that night or not, but I have not heard Sabrina mention the 6 year old. Just the 7 adults and the "baby in the other room."

There has been kids all over there since Joshua went missing. That 6 year old is the only other sibling.

The 6 year old does not appear to be Sabrina's. It appears to be her stepson. There have been conflicting reports on this with some reporting she is expecting her third child, but I'm pretty sure that they just grouped this little boy in there. I think Sabrina is actually expecting her second child and all together they have three. The 6 year old appears to be from a previous relationship of Dad's.

(snipped some for space)

I know I am beating a dead horse (where's that icon?) , but there is the picture of that little girl outside with dad. She looks to be lighter skinned than Joshua, about 4 I'd guess. She might be mom's daughter from a previous marriage/relationship and dad had a son from a previous marriage/relationship, and then they had 2 together - Joshua and the current pregnancy. That would make 4 children in total and would fit with the 3 pregnancies reported.

LCoastMom

02-09-2011, 03:12 PM

I wonder if they had been out previously that day. Is it just me or does a onesy and 2 long-sleeved shirts with jeans seem a bit excessive indoors for a child who is presumably watching a movie (in bed with blankets?) with mom? Or, had he been in and out during the afternoon/early evening with the smokers and/or other children?

I lived in a prefab for ten years, they are very drafty - it often felt like the wind was blowing right through the walls even tho it was new and supposedly well insulated.

Dad was wearing his knit beanie in the house, guessing they have the same situation.

peeples

02-09-2011, 03:13 PM

I wonder if they had been out previously that day. Is it just me or does a onesy and 2 long-sleeved shirts with jeans seem a bit excessive indoors for a child who is presumably watching a movie (in bed with blankets?) with mom? Or, had he been in and out during the afternoon/early evening with the smokers and/or other children?

Very odd to have that many layers on to hang around the house. We're pretty laid back around here though... When my kids were 18 months i was usually pregnant with another and sometimes would just lay the toddler down with a fresh diaper or pull up and the T-shirt they had been wearing.
Also my kids were picky and hated the snaps on jeans so unless we were going somewhere they'd either be in track type pants (which they'd spend all day trying to get off) or just a diaper from the waist down.. but like i said waaay laid back around here.....

SurfieTX

02-09-2011, 03:14 PM

Also, perhaps the godmother brought over her baby to the basketball get-together at the home. Either her or the father's friend. Or maybe even they were married and/or a couple and brought the baby with them? That would explain why the baby was **possibly** in Josh's bed and he was winding down with mom watching the movie.

ETA: I'm just noodlin' about the atmosphere that evening and the people there.

nursebeeme

02-09-2011, 03:16 PM

a polygraph is given in three phases... perhaps that is what the father is meaning.. a poly can take up to six hours or more... if he had three tests no way they did them in the same day... moo

cluciano63

02-09-2011, 03:21 PM

a polygraph is given in three phases... perhaps that is what the father is meaning.. a poly can take up to six hours or more... if he had three tests no way they did them in the same day... moo

When I had to take a polygraph, they discussed with me first what they would be asking me about and then hooked me up and asked me the questions, all "yes" or no" questions. That was it, no further tests or pre-tests or do-overs. Saying he took 3 tests is troubling to me, anyway.

lillys

02-09-2011, 03:38 PM

Dad took 3???

Ok i first read about multiple poly's in Hailey Dunn's case and now i see it again.. is it normal to give them till someone passes????
Doesn't that defeat the purpose?

LDT are not given until someone passes. ;)
There is a reason this man was given 3 and I find that alarming.

SurfieTX

02-09-2011, 03:49 PM

LDT are not given until someone passes. ;)
There is a reason this man was given 3 and I find that alarming.

Terri Horman was administered 3 polys. Each one was done by different agencies (I'm not sure which ones, however.) Being that the FBI has been called in and the Texas Rangers (much like Hailey's case), it is possible that he was administered 3 polys. That said, it is VERY hinky. Look at the players in Kyron's case and Hailey's case and who were administered the 3 polys - the very people they suspect had something to do with their disappearances.

Remember, Terri was very vocal the first few days about finding Kyron. She was on FB, at the pressers, etc., etc. Just goes to show that if dad is out with mom handing out fliers and "cooperating" with LE, it doesn't mean that they have not ruled him out as a suspect. It would be interesting to know if he had any criminal past, but until he is named a suspect or POI, I won't go there...for now...

MsFacetious

02-09-2011, 03:52 PM

LDT are not given until someone passes. ;)
There is a reason this man was given 3 and I find that alarming.

I don't find it alarming yet that Josh Sr was given 3. Because in the Horman case they were giving polygraphs from different agencies. It is possible they did one from the Ranger, one from the FBI and one from local police. Or something along those lines.

I've simply seen nothing to indicate he should be under suspicion. With Hailey and Kyron's case it was obvious who was under suspicion. Terri Horman never once said a word to the media or did anything visible to find Kyron. Huge difference between her and this Dad.

not_my_kids

02-09-2011, 03:54 PM

Just out of curiosity, what is Joshua Sr's middle name?

LCoastMom

02-09-2011, 03:56 PM

a polygraph is given in three phases... perhaps that is what the father is meaning.. a poly can take up to six hours or more... if he had three tests no way they did them in the same day... moo

I replayed the video at the link above, he said "Actually they put me thru three."

You could be right.

belimom

02-09-2011, 04:03 PM

Just out of curiosity, what is Joshua Sr's middle name?

It starts with an A... can we post it publicly?

not_my_kids

02-09-2011, 04:03 PM

It starts with an A... can we post it publicly?
That's all I need. Thanks.

darlin gal

02-09-2011, 04:04 PM

Weren't dogs able to trail Laci Peterson to the bay area from her home? She obviously hadn't walked away either. :waitasec:
I agree someone may have taken him though. Praying Joshua is found soon.

11 year old Natalie Bloom, 4 yr. old Zoey Dorsey, 5 yr. old Issak Glenn, all wandered away from home and into the woods and dogs failed to track/find them. It was volunteer searchers who ultimately came across them thank goodness.

I really think search dogs are a great tool but they don't always work.

I don't think this little guy wandered away though.

sarx

02-09-2011, 04:07 PM

11 year old Natalie Bloom, 4 yr. old Zoey Dorsey, 5 yr. old Issak Glenn, all wandered away from home and into the woods and dogs failed to track/find them. It was volunteer searchers who ultimately came across them thank goodness.

I really think search dogs are a great tool but they don't always work.

I don't think this little guy wandered away though.

I think it's also important to know that in this case as well as many others, these are NOT search dogs that are being used.

I don't find it alarming yet that Josh Sr was given 3. Because in the Horman case they were giving polygraphs from different agencies. It is possible they did one from the Ranger, one from the FBI and one from local police. Or something along those lines.

I've simply seen nothing to indicate he should be under suspicion. With Hailey and Kyron's case it was obvious who was under suspicion. Terri Horman never once said a word to the media or did anything visible to find Kyron. Huge difference between her and this Dad.

Amber Dubois's stepfather took 8 (eight) polygraphs and is now known to be factually innocent of her murder.

sarx

02-09-2011, 04:13 PM

Amber Dubois's stepfather took 8 (eight) polygraphs and is now known to be factually innocent of her murder.
This happens more than you realize!

darlin gal

02-09-2011, 04:14 PM

I think it's also important to know that in this case as well as many others, these are NOT search dogs that are being used.

I know that but people assume that sarx. That the child must have been snatched or something happened to him because the dogs are not able to trail/track him.

They did use search dogs in the above cases.

SurfieTX

02-09-2011, 04:17 PM

I think it's also important to know that in this case as well as many others, these are NOT search dogs that are being used.

What is the process in determining which organization/dogs to use? I find this UBER frustrating and if I feel this way, I can only imagine how you must scream at your computer and TV. :)

All of it seems, well, wasteful. Is it to pacify the public and parents? Why, why, why? Grrr...

cluciano63

02-09-2011, 04:17 PM

I know that but people assume that sarx. That the child must have been snatched or something happened to him because the dogs are not able to trail/track him.

They did use search dogs in the above cases.

That is for sure...

not_my_kids

02-09-2011, 04:27 PM

There has been no mention of bringing in cold climate dogs. I know that there isn't a HUGE amount of difference, but if they are using only dogs from TX, wouldn't they have been born, raised and trained in warm air? Would that make it hard for them to track a small child's scent in cold air and on cold ground?

(I should know this, but I don't, unless I want to go look it up.)

reen

02-09-2011, 04:32 PM

Very odd to have that many layers on to hang around the house. We're pretty laid back around here though... When my kids were 18 months i was usually pregnant with another and sometimes would just lay the toddler down with a fresh diaper or pull up and the T-shirt they had been wearing.
Also my kids were picky and hated the snaps on jeans so unless we were going somewhere they'd either be in track type pants (which they'd spend all day trying to get off) or just a diaper from the waist down.. but like i said waaay laid back around here.....

Here in our area (I'm between Austin and New Braunfels) we've had a cold snap lately, and we are spoiled on relatively warm winters. Homes here often aren't insulated very well either. So to us the chill/drafts feel more pronounced, and we walk around the house with hoodies, knit hats, long johns, you name it. LOL

I feel awful about being so close and this helpless. Where IS he?!?

SurfieTX

02-09-2011, 04:36 PM

There has been no mention of bringing in cold climate dogs. I know that there isn't a HUGE amount of difference, but if they are using only dogs from TX, wouldn't they have been born, raised and trained in warm air? Would that make it hard for them to track a small child's scent in cold air and on cold ground?

(I should know this, but I don't, unless I want to go look it up.)

This brings up another thought I had a few days ago. We Texans are absolutely not used to ice/snow and zero temperatures. They happen in a blue moon. This winter season has been the worst I have seen in about 25 years.

And that brings me to Joshua. He had to navigate stairs bare-handed in stocking feet and then walk in stocking feet. I can tell you that if I or one of my kids had to do that for even 5 minutes, we would be high-tailin' it back to warmth. It wouldn't seem "fun" or anything like that. It would be more shocking and unpleasant than anything.

There again, he is an 18-month-old child, so I suppose anything is possible because kids that age are not fully ingrained in their surroundings quite yet, but still it makes me wonder...

SilkySifaka

02-09-2011, 04:48 PM

Stress could bring on premature labor i suppose.. and after about 34 weeks, things are soo cramped that every time they move it's either into the ribs or onto your bladder and it is uncomfortable... so i guess i can see why she didn't.

and she only has 3 weeks to go, I wouldn't poly her either if I was them. The hormones also are causing stress changes. Some places will early but not later

Nicki077

02-09-2011, 05:12 PM

worth a read on PG exams. I had posted previously (in the HD thread) about my own experiences with them and thought this was a good explanation, there are so many variables and if there is a question then it's a good thing if they do another and even another until ALL has been cleared. Here is the link: there are other FAQ's on the left side you can click on but this link is to the errors a test can give and why.

http://www.truthorlie.com/whyerr.html

Nicki077

02-09-2011, 05:21 PM

Again from the same site:

FYI! For us to administer a test, the subject MUST be in good health with no aches or pains of any type: no headaches, no use of any types of drugs to stop any type of pain. If prescription drugs are being used, a doctor must be consulted before we administer the test. You will be charged our full fee if we arrive at the site and the subject is not physically able to take the test. We cannot test pregnant women.

http://www.truthorlie.com/fees.html

sarx

02-09-2011, 05:48 PM

What is the process in determining which organization/dogs to use? I find this UBER frustrating and if I feel this way, I can only imagine how you must scream at your computer and TV. :)

All of it seems, well, wasteful. Is it to pacify the public and parents? Why, why, why? Grrr...

It's up to the agency in charge. DOJ dogs in these parts seem to be what they know, so that's what they go with. Their resources are really unlimited if they just make the calls (and it doesn't cost them a thing). Really, it's just lack of knowledge, good ole' boy syndrome or they don't believe, one of the 3.

JenRen

02-09-2011, 05:59 PM

I just had to comment on something LOL Someone said earlier it kinda made ya go HMM that the mom was watching toy story alone..
My house is empty it's just me and hte pets and i'm watching Handy manny LOL
I'm laying down the remote is across the room and I haven't see this one before those are my excuses LOL ;)

O/T

I still watch Spongebob in the mornings for an hour after dropping my kids off at school. Neither of them have watched that show in years LOL! I still get tickled at it and it reminds me of when my kids were little.

No doubt another red herring, but the comment from 12:16 p.m. today is interesting.
To paraphrase, the poster thinks they saw Joshua on Monday night with a nervous looking white man, but the tip won't be taken due to a lack of a plate number. Of course, there are often sightings like this, but I wonder if the other part of the comment, about why the info wasn't taken is true.

Money Girl

02-09-2011, 06:10 PM

O/T

I still watch Spongebob in the mornings for an hour after dropping my kids off at school. Neither of them have watched that show in years LOL! I still get tickled at it and it reminds me of when my kids were little.

I really have no decent excuses like you do! ;)

<Goes back to hide in my closet of immaturity>

I still watch Leave it to Beaver just because I want to.

MsFacetious

02-09-2011, 06:16 PM

It's up to the agency in charge. DOJ dogs in these parts seem to be what they know, so that's what they go with. Their resources are really unlimited if they just make the calls (and it doesn't cost them a thing). Really, it's just lack of knowledge, good ole' boy syndrome or they don't believe, one of the 3.

Texas Equusearch has the right dogs don't they? They say "tracking, air scent and cadaver" but I know better than to take it literally!

If they have the right dogs, maybe someone should let LE or family know to call them in? To ask specifically about bringing dogs in to try and follow his scent? I know they have him on their page, but no mention of a search.

I'm not one of the "call TES" in every single case people... if the correct things are being done. However, in this case they may be the only opportunity for the right dogs if LE isn't going to bring them in.

not_my_kids

02-09-2011, 06:24 PM

“We had some teams going back to specific points of interest for additional searches and re-interviewing certain people,” Penshorn said.
Investigators, when describing the situation, choose their words carefully.
“We're looking at all the possible scenarios, and as we're able to determine that something — such as him being in the area around the house — isn't likely, we discount that and we move on to the next thing,” Penshorn said.

Denny's, the workplace of Joshua's mother, Sabrina Benitez, is collecting donations.
http://www.kens5.com/news/Cadaver-dogs-will-help-search-for-missing-New-Braunfels-boy-115491449.html
It has no real bearing on anything, but I know that some people have wondered where she worked. No info on Joshua though.

sarx

02-09-2011, 06:57 PM

Texas Equusearch has the right dogs don't they? They say "tracking, air scent and cadaver" but I know better than to take it literally!

If they have the right dogs, maybe someone should let LE or family know to call them in? To ask specifically about bringing dogs in to try and follow his scent? I know they have him on their page, but no mention of a search.

I'm not one of the "call TES" in every single case people... if the correct things are being done. However, in this case they may be the only opportunity for the right dogs if LE isn't going to bring them in.

Yes, TES does have trailing dogs. There are several other organizations that have dogs every bit as good as TES, they're just the well known group. I would be surprised if at least one of the orgs. has not been called. There is also always the possibility that LE has info. that they are not sharing that would explain it. Just a thought.

TxLady2

02-09-2011, 07:16 PM

Oh, I hope this doesn't turn into another one of those "somebody-knows-something-and-everybody-is-covering-up-one-of-those-freaky-accidents" type of cases. I just don't know if I can handle any more of these babies dying because the adults aren't responsible!

Kat

02-09-2011, 07:19 PM

Has it warmed up in that area of texas yet?

If it is above freezing then what factors would hinder cadaver dogs searching now?

If he crawled somewhere within the area of all the homes (under a MH or etc) once the temps are consistently above freezing ---decomp would more than likely be evident to anyone standing nearby. KWIM?

JMHO.

darlin gal

02-09-2011, 07:21 PM

An extensive search of the area near his home was conducted by multiple agencies and volunteers. But no sign of Joshua has been found.

Comal County Crime Stoppers is offering a reward for information leading to the whereabouts of Joshua Davis. Anyone with information leading to Joshua may be eligible for a reward of up to $5,000.00 should there be an arrest and indictment.

If you have any information about the whereabouts of Joshua Davis, please immediately call Crime Stoppers at 830-620-TIPS or 800-640-8422, submit a tip online (https://www.tipsubmit.com/WebTips.aspx?AgencyID=427) or send a text tip by texting “COMAL plus your message” to CRIMES (274637).

The temps have been up and down - for instance for a few days we've been able to run around without jackets (upper 60's) .. today (i'm west of New Braunfels - the other side of Canyon Lake) .. it just NOW (around 4:30pm) got up to 31 .. VERY cold today ...

wfgodot

02-09-2011, 07:23 PM

Currently in New Braunfels it's 35°, winds gusting from the north, 22-33 mph. Overnight low tonight: 22°, high tomorrow, 47°.

http://ad.doubleclick.net/ad/wn.loc.kwtx/news;wnsz=10;sz=180x60;ord=[timestamp]? (http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/wn.loc.kwtx/news;wnsz=10;sz=180x60;ord=[timestamp]?)
On Tuesday, investigators carried large items wrapped in black, loaded them into a truck and drove off.
The boy's father, Josh Davis, said he didn't know what the investigators were doing.

An FBI forensics team visited the family's home, in a mobile home community on the town's far South Side, to retrace the steps and evidence-gathering of the first responders, who showed up minutes after the boy vanished Friday night.
Intensive searches of the fields, homes and landmarks around the house have turned up nothing. There's no evidence the boy was abducted.

Terri Horman doesn't have a thing to do with this child's disappearance nor with the reasons this father was given 3 LDT.

The dad's story isn't lining up and LE is now calling this a criminal investigation.
moo

I disagree I think it's very helpful to see what's been done in previous cases.

not_my_kids

02-09-2011, 07:25 PM

New braunfels has a hard freeze warning tonight, from what I've seen online. So no warmup yet.

belimom

02-09-2011, 07:26 PM

There's no evidence the boy was abductedhttp://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/Feds-examining-evidence-in-missing-NB-child-case-1005744.php

I agree... But I also don't think he wandered off. :no:

ETA: The key word for me here is abducted - and I don't think that happened.

darlin gal

02-09-2011, 07:27 PM

.The child's pediatrician was interviewed on Tuesday. While investigators had initially considered a 36-hour window of survivability because of the cold and exposure, the doctor said 24 hours would have been a more likely window.
http://seguingazette.com/news/article_6f33b942-3464-11e0-9a8c-001cc4c002e0.html

Kat

02-09-2011, 07:31 PM

Wow I lived in CenTex for nine years and I don't remember it being that cold ever...for this long. Maybe a day or two here and there. Yikes--you all stay warm!

FBI is investigating.
Texas Rangers are investigating.
FBI forensic team went to home

In an article today it said that Investigators are choosing their words carefully.

Well, I'm going to be straight up honest here and say that I would be surprised at this point in time if one of the parents didn't know exactly where Joshua is located and that possibly both know what happened to him (at least the one who knows where he is located knows what happened).

So hopefully I will get the shock of my life and this beautiful child will be located and it will be shown that he did wander away over ice barefoot to such a distance within 20 mins that he couldn't be located and still can't be located.

Come home soon Joshua but I really dont' think that is going to happen. :(

lillys

02-09-2011, 07:32 PM

I agree... But I also don't think he wandered off. :no:

Me either belimom. :(

not_my_kids

02-09-2011, 07:36 PM

Isn't there a WS rule against using too much of one case in another, because it confuses everyone and tends to lead to off topic tangents?

TIA to whoever can answer. I seem to remember that going into effect when every case was being compared to Caylee Anthony, but I'm not a mod and could be wrong.

daisy7

02-09-2011, 07:39 PM

I'm confused about a reward being offered if they think he just wandered off?

I don't find it alarming yet that Josh Sr was given 3. Because in the Horman case they were giving polygraphs from different agencies. It is possible they did one from the Ranger, one from the FBI and one from local police. Or something along those lines.

I've simply seen nothing to indicate he should be under suspicion. With Hailey and Kyron's case it was obvious who was under suspicion. Terri Horman never once said a word to the media or did anything visible to find Kyron. Huge difference between her and this Dad.

IMO the dad is hinky, he has been IMO from day one. He took 3 polys and yes, I find that extremely hinky. LE has changed its mind about this child. THey now say he was NOT abducted and he didn't walk off alone.
What's left?
Not an abduction/not a kidnapping.

We have no evidence right now whatsoever that it was an abduction or kidnapping," said Lt. Michael Penshorn. "All that we know is that we simply have a child that was there one moment and a matter of minutes later, he disappeared."

http://www.ksat.com/news/26809463/detail.html

imamaze

02-09-2011, 07:52 PM

Isn't there a WS rule against using too much of one case in another, because it confuses everyone and tends to lead to off topic tangents?

TIA to whoever can answer. I seem to remember that going into effect when every case was being compared to Caylee Anthony, but I'm not a mod and could be wrong.

Not that I'm aware of :smile:

momtective

02-09-2011, 07:53 PM

IMO the dad is hinky, he has been IMO from day one. He took 3 polys and yes, I find that extremely hinky. LE has changed its mind about this child. THey now say he was NOT abducted and he didn't walk off alone.
What's left?
Not an abduction/not a kidnapping.

http://www.ksat.com/news/26809463/detail.html

“I last saw my son around 8 last night,” said Josh Davis, Joshua’s father. “He was pulling on my beanie trying to take it off. He was behind my chair. When I told him to stop, he looked at me and smiled.

“That was the last time I saw him.”

http://herald-zeitung.com/news/commu...cc4c03286.html

Just sayin'

belimom

02-09-2011, 07:57 PM

“I last saw my son around 8 last night,” said Josh Davis, Joshua’s father. “He was pulling on my beanie trying to take it off. He was behind my chair. When I told him to stop, he looked at me and smiled.

“That was the last time I saw him.”

http://herald-zeitung.com/news/commu...cc4c03286.html

Just sayin'

Again, last person to see the child. Just one flag of many, IMHO...

lillys

02-09-2011, 08:00 PM

I'm confused about a reward being offered if they think he just wandered off?

daisy7,
there are 2 or 3 links here that quote LE as saying they no longer think he wandered off.
They don't think he wandered off.
They don't think he was abducted .

Texas Mist

02-09-2011, 08:03 PM

daisy7,
there are 2 or 3 links here that quote LE as saying they no longer think he wandered off.
They don't think he wandered off.
They don't think he was abducted .

The FBI said they are looking into the abduction possibility. I don't think anything is established for certain right now.

jessicat

02-09-2011, 08:04 PM

Has it warmed up in that area of texas yet?

If it is above freezing then what factors would hinder cadaver dogs searching now?

If he crawled somewhere within the area of all the homes (under a MH or etc) once the temps are consistently above freezing ---decomp would more than likely be evident to anyone standing nearby. KWIM?

JMHO.

A massive cold front came in this morning dropping temps to below freezing with some sleet and ice. That is gone now but the wind is brutal and it is very, very cold out.

Kat

02-09-2011, 08:07 PM

What do you all think that the parallel criminal investigation is about?

Drug use/sell? (just hazarding a very wild guess--not founded by any facts other than what the LT stated in the link below)

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20030976-504083.html

Joshua's GF called 911---was he at the house that night or was he called by one of the parents?

I"m so sorry for any repetitive questions. I had my eyes dialated today and I can't see for crap. I am having the hardest time reading posts to catch up and such. I have to sign off soon. Thank you in advance with helping me to understand.

not_my_kids

02-09-2011, 08:12 PM

Not that I'm aware of :smile:

Thank you. That's why I always add the "not a mod" disclaimer, lol.

elepher50

02-09-2011, 08:13 PM

What do you all think that the parallel criminal investigation is about?

Drug use/sell? (just hazarding a very wild guess--not founded by any facts other than what the LT stated in the link below)

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20030976-504083.html

Joshua's GF called 911---was he at the house that night or was he called by one of the parents?

I"m so sorry for any repetitive questions. I had my eyes dialated today and I can't see for crap. I am having the hardest time reading posts to catch up and such. I have to sign off soon. Thank you in advance with helping me to understand.

Hi Kat,
I think the parallel investigation is that LE think harm has come to Joshua. The GF was at the house that night. Hope your eyes come around soon.

not_my_kids

02-09-2011, 08:15 PM

What do you all think that the parallel criminal investigation is about?

Drug use/sell? (just hazarding a very wild guess--not founded by any facts other than what the LT stated in the link below)

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20030976-504083.html

Joshua's GF called 911---was he at the house that night or was he called by one of the parents?

I"m so sorry for any repetitive questions. I had my eyes dialated today and I can't see for crap. I am having the hardest time reading posts to catch up and such. I have to sign off soon. Thank you in advance with helping me to understand.

The way LE has described the parallel investigation is so that all their bases are covered. Not sure if it's the whole truth, but it's what we have to believe.

Grandfather was there with the rest of the people watching the game that night.

No information on any drug activity, but due to the mother's pregnancy, I'm assuming not on her part.

Texas Mist

02-09-2011, 08:18 PM

This is from article on February 5th:

Authorities do not suspect alcohol or drugs played in a role in his family's awareness of Joshua's disappearance.

What do you all think that the parallel criminal investigation is about?

Drug use/sell? (just hazarding a very wild guess--not founded by any facts other than what the LT stated in the link below)

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20030976-504083.html

Joshua's GF called 911---was he at the house that night or was he called by one of the parents?

I"m so sorry for any repetitive questions. I had my eyes dialated today and I can't see for crap. I am having the hardest time reading posts to catch up and such. I have to sign off soon. Thank you in advance with helping me to understand.

I don't see the part about the GF calling 911, or parallel investigations (other than the search and the investigation into what happened that night). Is it in another link? Thanks... :)

ETA: :doh: Sorry - I read GF as "girlfriend". Now I realize it means "grandfather"... Yes, he was there that night. I was thinking that this case was about to take a whole new turn since the father is also Joshua. :o
I think I'm straight on everything now...

not_my_kids

02-09-2011, 08:21 PM

Comal County Crimestoppers, meanwhile, has offered up to a $5,000 reward for information leading to Joshua that results in an arrest or indictment, even though police at this point still believe the boy wandered off.
http://www.ksat.com/news/26809463/detail.html

lillys

02-09-2011, 08:21 PM

The FBI said they are looking into the abduction possibility. I don't think anything is established for certain right now.

Intensive searches of the fields, homes and landmarks around the house have turned up nothing. There's no evidence the boy was abducted.

LE said on Saturday there was no evidence of foul play...the FBI comes to town & says they are investigating possibility of kidnapping.

So what are we to believe? LE's statements have waffled back & forth between he wandered off, possibility of abduction, abduction ruled out, and back to "“We're looking at all the possible scenarios" (from your link).

That said, I don't think anything is established for certain right now....LE's statements are confusing.

nursebeeme

02-09-2011, 08:41 PM

the behavioral unit being on scene also does not sit well with me thinking he wandered off... they keep expanding the perimeter for a live wandering little boy and nothing.... nothing...

bottom line for me is that I am glad that LE has all the needed resources on their side for any type of scenario...

where are you little Joshua?

Texas Mist

02-09-2011, 08:48 PM

I'd like to take this opportunity to note that the WS Rules have been updated. Everyone should take a few minutes to read them. Here is a rule that is 'official':

Victim Friendly

Websleuths is a victim friendly forum. Sleuthing family members that are not suspected of being involved in the crime or disappearance is not allowed. Don't make random accusations or post personal information (even if it is public) like parking tickets, address, or first and last names of all their relatives and their neighbors. Also, never "bash" or attack them, or accuse them of involvement. However that does not mean that family members cannot come into discussion as the facts and issues of the case are discussed.

Rules Etiquette & Information - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

This post lands at random in this thread.

lillys

02-09-2011, 08:52 PM

LE said on Saturday there was no evidence of foul play...the FBI comes to town & says they are investigating possibility of kidnapping.

So what are we to believe? LE's statements have waffled back & forth between he wandered off, possibility of abduction, abduction ruled out, and back to "“We're looking at all the possible scenarios" (from your link).

That said, I don't think anything is established for certain right now....LE's statements are confusing.

I am confused. I just read 3 articles and all 3 state something different.
Sorry if the ones I posted are making things more confusing.
I vote we need a presser by LE now. :)

SilkySifaka

02-09-2011, 08:53 PM

Terri Horman doesn't have a thing to do with this child's disappearance nor with the reasons this father was given 3 LDT.

The dad's story isn't lining up and LE is now calling this a criminal investigation.
moo

I haven't heard anything to make me suspicious of the dad whatsoever

SilkySifaka

02-09-2011, 08:58 PM

I'd like to take this opportunity to note that the WS Rules have been updated. Everyone should take a few minutes to read them. Here is a rule that is 'official':

Victim Friendly

Websleuths is a victim friendly forum. Sleuthing family members that are not suspected of being involved in the crime or disappearance is not allowed. Don't make random accusations or post personal information (even if it is public) like parking tickets, address, or first and last names of all their relatives and their neighbors. Also, never "bash" or attack them, or accuse them of involvement. However that does not mean that family members cannot come into discussion as the facts and issues of the case are discussed.

This deserves more than a thanks. It was starting to get a little uncomfortable imho

sweetdreams

02-09-2011, 09:22 PM

LE said on Saturday there was no evidence of foul play...the FBI comes to town & says they are investigating possibility of kidnapping.

So what are we to believe? LE's statements have waffled back & forth between he wandered off, possibility of abduction, abduction ruled out, and back to "“We're looking at all the possible scenarios" (from your link).

That said, I don't think anything is established for certain right now....LE's statements are confusing.

That is so true...I have been living in New Braunfels for the last 5 years, and I'm seriously concerned about the level of professionalism of the LE's communications. So much confusion, mixed messages, and the appearance of a lax attitude, regarding the initial first critical hours of this search. I'm sure the local LE is trying it's best, but they don't seem able to handle this serious missing child case. I think from the very beginning, they expected to find little Joshua quickly...having just solved a recent missing child case within a few hours of it being reported. I'm reluctant to admit, that I don't have much confidence in their actions right now.

not_my_kids

02-09-2011, 09:23 PM

If we had a presser we would have direct quotes from LE, instead of the reporters interpretation of what LE said. As it is, we don't have an updated statement, and it seems that they change angles on this case everyday. I understand not endangering an investigation, and I appreciate that they don't seem to be releasing too much info, but I'm completely confused. Everyone else has to be too.

panthera

02-09-2011, 09:23 PM

the behavioral unit being on scene also does not sit well with me thinking he wandered off... they keep expanding the perimeter for a live wandering little boy and nothing.... nothing...

bottom line for me is that I am glad that LE has all the needed resources on their side for any type of scenario...

where are you little Joshua?

I agree, they aren't needed to determine the mindset for a missing 18 m/o toddler. However I also am very glad that multiple LE agencies are investigating what happened to this precious little boy. I pray he is found soon. :prayer:

Dee10

02-09-2011, 09:29 PM

As time goes by with all the searching and the perimeters expanding without finding this precious little child after 5 days ( who was without a jacket, wearing only socks) who was last seen in his own home with a number of adults (majority family) present, it raises questions, does it not honestly? As the scope of what could have happened narrows, I think we could see a lot more uncomfortable things happening playing out.

With a criminal investigation being mentioned along with the specialized team flying in, FBI, etc. I am glad they are determined to get to the bottom of what happened to Joshua, he deserves that, no matter what happened.

Fairy1

02-09-2011, 09:37 PM

what do you all think that the parallel criminal investigation is about?

drug use/sell? (just hazarding a very wild guess--not founded by any facts other than what the lt stated in the link below)

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20030976-504083.html

joshua's gf called 911---was he at the house that night or was he called by one of the parents?

I"m so sorry for any repetitive questions. I had my eyes dialated today and i can't see for crap. I am having the hardest time reading posts to catch up and such. I have to sign off soon. Thank you in advance with helping me to understand.

IMO - they are CYA'ing

Dee10

02-09-2011, 09:43 PM

Not My Kids, I can't wait to see you list of quotes & timeline when you have something. I realize things change all the time and it is always a work in progress; I always appreciate the talent and the time that goes into the work especially the timeline. :hug:

belimom

02-09-2011, 09:45 PM

This is from article on February 5th:

Authorities do not suspect alcohol or drugs played in a role in his family's awareness of Joshua's disappearance.

That's very carefully worded... IMHO. I just wonder about the word "awareness" being put in the mix, kwim?

peeples

02-09-2011, 09:49 PM

That's very carefully worded... IMHO.

No kidding.. they are saying.. no one was high or drunk when they REALIZED he was missing...

belimom

02-09-2011, 09:52 PM

What do you all think that the parallel criminal investigation is about?

Drug use/sell? (just hazarding a very wild guess--not founded by any facts other than what the LT stated in the link below)

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20030976-504083.html

Joshua's GF called 911---was he at the house that night or was he called by one of the parents?

I"m so sorry for any repetitive questions. I had my eyes dialated today and I can't see for crap. I am having the hardest time reading posts to catch up and such. I have to sign off soon. Thank you in advance with helping me to understand.

Kat, that's interesting. I didn't realize it said parallel criminal investigations. I was thinking parallel investigations into Joshua's disappearance, such as the SAR investigation and the 'get-to-the-bottom-of-what-happened' investigation.

Now, I'm wondering if it may be possible that there may have been other things going on besides watching the ballgame? :waitasec:

not_my_kids

02-09-2011, 09:54 PM

Not My Kids, I can't wait to see you list of quotes & timeline when you have something. I realize things change all the time and it is always a work in progress; I always appreciate the talent and the time that goes into the work especially the timeline. :hug:

I'm getting there, but direct quotes are really hard to find without reviewing the videos, so I'm trying to do that now. I think there is at least a partial timeline last thread, so I'm going to find that asap.

cluciano63

02-09-2011, 09:54 PM

It's hard for me to try to read into their statements when there are so many and they seem to be covering every possibility. I've pretty much given up on trying to read into anything any LEA says anymore, after months of Portland and their cryptic statements.

Texas Mist

02-09-2011, 10:00 PM

Kat, that's interesting. I didn't realize it said parallel criminal investigations. I was thinking parallel investigations into Joshua's disappearance, such as the SAR investigation and the 'get-to-the-bottom-of-what-happened' investigation.

Now, I'm wondering if it may be possible that there may have been other things going on besides watching the ballgame? :waitasec:

See - that's more of the confusion, IMO...another article quotes the Lt. differently:

"We do not believe that an abduction or kidnapping occurred," said Penshorn, adding that investigators "still believe that he did somehow slip out of the residence undetected, possibly wandering off. But we are also running a parallel investigation looking at other possibilities."

Parallel meaning homicide, abduction, wandered off scenarios all at once. They said the same thing with HD. IMO that is what they mean.

cluciano63

02-09-2011, 10:20 PM

I think they've been doing this all along-the parallel investigations.

panthera

02-09-2011, 10:29 PM

Parallel meaning homicide, abduction, wandered off scenarios all at once. They said the same thing with HD. IMO that is what they mean.

That is my interpretation also. They can't focus only on one possibility to the exclusion of all others. MOO

belimom

02-09-2011, 10:36 PM

That is my interpretation also. They can't focus only on one possibility to the exclusion of all others. MOO

That's what I was thinking as well... UNTIL they started talking parallel "criminal" investigations. Of course, it's not a direct quote so we don't know if LE actually said "criminal" or not. To me, there would be one criminal and one SAR-type (wandered off) - but two criminal stands out to me, if it's true. MOO

panthera

02-09-2011, 10:46 PM

That's what I was thinking as well... UNTIL they started talking parallel "criminal" investigations. Of course, it's not a direct quote so we don't know if LE actually said "criminal" or not. To me, there would be one criminal and one SAR-type (wandered off) - but two criminal stands out to me, if it's true. MOO

From your quote in your post #234, I interpreted it as one parallel criminal investigation (not plural).........along with the possibility he wandered off. MOO

belimom

02-09-2011, 10:49 PM

From your quote in your post #234, I interpreted it as one parallel criminal investigation (not plural).........along with the possibility he wandered off. MOO

Makes sense...

trigger

02-09-2011, 10:53 PM

I'm getting there, but direct quotes are really hard to find without reviewing the videos, so I'm trying to do that now. I think there is at least a partial timeline last thread, so I'm going to find that asap.

Thread 1 Noway post#194 of a timeline. Sorry IDK how to bring it over from a closed post.

Dee10

02-09-2011, 10:55 PM

JMO, I took a parallel investigation; the criminal part to mean just that criminal not anything specific. Now it wouldn't surprise me if they had a theory, but I doubt they would let the public know whatever direction they are heading in that regard and therefore would keep it generic.

Dee10

02-09-2011, 10:57 PM

Thread 1 Noway post#194 of a timeline. Sorry IDK how to bring it over from a closed post.

Love Noway's research & timelines; but I don't know how to do it either.

cluciano63

02-09-2011, 11:00 PM

Love Noway's research & timelines; but I don't know how to do it either.

“I last saw my son around 8 last night,” said Josh Davis, Joshua’s father. “He was pulling on my beanie trying to take it off. He was behind my chair. When I told him to stop, he looked at me and smiled.
“That was the last time I saw him.”
Davis described Joshua as a cheerful, playful and loving boy.
“They have no leads,” said Sabrina Benitez, Joshua’s mother, through tears. “I last saw him around 7:40 p.m. in my room watching ‘Toy Story.’ When I realized he hadn’t come back to watch with me, I realized he was missing.”

If they think he left the house after the friend left, then I'm estimating the friend left between 8-8:20 pm. Not fact, not even reported as far as I've read so far. JMO

~8:30 pm Joshua disappears from home
Joshua disappeared from the family home on the 2600 block of Savannah Hill Circle around 8:30 p.m. Friday, according to a news release by New Braunfels Police Department Lt. Michael Penshorn.

~8:40 pm LE called to home
Police were summoned shortly before 8:40 p.m. Friday and told Joshua Davis (http://www.mysanantonio.com/?controllerName=search&action=search&channel=news%2Flocal_news&search=1&inlineLink=1&query=%22Joshua+Davis%22) Jr. had last been seen inside his parents' mobile home in the 2600 block of Savannah Hill Circle about 20 minutes earlier.

Ok so 40 minutes elapsed between last time Dad saw the child and call was made to LE? So he either had a 40 minute headstart on foot...or someone left and came back between 8pm and 8:40 PM? Who went for a smoke break? Who went near the front door at all? They could not have taken him more than 20 minutes away, if he was taken out of the house by an adult. But that is a huge radius if he was put into a car.

katydid23

02-09-2011, 11:13 PM

I just really hope they are looking closely at the friend who came and went and according to the mom, 'changed' his story. I do not know what she meant by changing any story, I suppose about where he went or something. It sounded as though she was really suspicious because the friends coming and going was the same time as the boy going missing.
An innocent scenario could be that the boy followed the friend out because the door wasnt latched fully.

cluciano63

02-09-2011, 11:26 PM

I guess LE has not abandoned the idea he could have slipped out on his own, made it down the slippery steps and taken off on foot without a jacket or diapers. If they still think this, I hope they keep expanding the search perimeter as if we are picturing this little guy motoring along with a 40-minute headstart, I guess he could have made it pretty far. But I just can't believe he walked, crawled, toddled, more than 2 miles.

Dee10

02-09-2011, 11:27 PM

Mom the time of last was siting 7:40, but when did she get concerned that she went looking, compared to Dad his last siting was 8:00?

byo

02-09-2011, 11:38 PM

Do we know which basketball game they were watching; what time did it start, when was half-time, etc?

Fairy1

02-09-2011, 11:51 PM

IMO - there are too many conflicting or unsubstantiated media reports to build much of an opinion as to what happened to little Joshua. Obviously, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but I don't see enough guts to any theory to merit taking one path over another.