OT VIII Success

When this is the best you have, scraping the barrel doesn’t really describe it.

After half a million dollars and years and years of sacrifice, the accomplishment seems to be more “I finally made it over the finish line” than anything tangible. It’s all vague “I could say this, but it’s not really that” and I am “naturally happy” or “I am OT”… blah blah

All in all, a VERY unimpressive mandatory “success story” provided in order to be allowed to get off the Freewinds. But this is the one they chose to send out as broad promotion?

Maybe they don’t HAVE any others?

Either way, an interesting insight into the state of scientology using their own words and promotion.

It proves things are going downhill rapidly and predicts an even bleaker future. Promoting that this is what people have to look forward to on OT VIII. Sad.

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I watched bits and pieces of “South Park: The Closet” episode, in which they gave out the secret story of Xenu and how we got into the mess that we are in today. OK, LRH I believe said that if you know about the Xenu story before you have achieved level-3 (and told everyone in the cult not to tell the story) that the persons gaining the information would all die. Leah in an interview with Joe Rogan also confirmed this.

Unless we are all ghosts now, why are we still alive and healthy. Just a thought.

I was a totally dedicated scientologist and DID the bridge, (hundreds of thousands of dollars) and spent decades also as staff, contributing and helping. I didn’t just sit at the bottom of the bridge hoping.

When I came to my senses it was with full knowledge of the bridge. I had had wins on everything. No magic powers, but confidence, certainty, and a sense of personal stability. I was one hundred percent brainwashed.

………

There is so much Hell to all of this for me, so much I have gone through in having it all come undone.

I’m NOT glad I got in. It was a total waste.

But since I WAS in and doing what I did, I’m glad I will never ever ever ever doubt quitting.

It’s with full knowledge and certainty. I don’t know the answers to the universe, but I know that scientology doesn’t have them.

I once jumped off a roof, and levitated for a second before I hit the ground, and the Earth and I became one. I saw the “Light” and this lifetime and past lifetimes flash before my eyes. Does that qualify as being level-8, and am I now “Clear.”

I watched Karen de la Carriere’s videos (which are wonderful and so well done), and she is I believe she said one of 7 people who gained level XII CS. (not sure what the CS stands for). Upshot is when she gained this lofty level, she found to her amazement that she could not jump over tall buildings..You know the rest. In the end she shredded all of her certificates (some signed by L. Ron “The Source” Hubbard. Who can blame her after what the cult did to her husband and son.

Perhaps if those who are level VIII have visions of going higher, might take a lesson and watch Karen’s videos and save yourself a bit of time and money before continuing.

L Ron, who is the only “Source” of true information, and is dead, then there really can’t be any changes unless DM does the changing, which of course changes the whole books of LRH, and of course you would have to buy all the books all over again. Oh, come to think about it, good idea. One wonders if DM and gang has thought of that…Hummm, I wonder.

Just an aside: I went on line and tried to watch “South Park: The Closet” episode. A message came up saying this episode was not available. Was the cult able to pull that program. Good deal “Law & Order” for the program of the “cult” episode. I will look forward to watching it.

I have been able to see bits and pieces of the “South Park: The Closet” show, and the funny thing (as you know) is when they showed the history of Xenu, and the whole fantasy version of why we are what we are as humans today had a sign over the cartoon saying something like: “Scientologist actually believe this to be true.” I bet that raised some eyebrows. LOL.

It’s interesting to compare scientology and LRH with Joseph Smith and the Mormon Church. Smith claimed he received a “revelation” from God via a visit from the Angel Moroni. Consequently the Mormon Church has been able to change with the times by way of “revelations” given to its presidents by God.

Hubbard, by contrast, “discovered” his fantastic crock of balderdash by his own “discoveries” and “investigations.” Thus scientology can’t ever change; everything is locked into Hubbard’s exact words – no “revelations” or “visions” from Miscavige or anyone else. This is ultimately what will doom the cherch.

I can see scientology surviving as some kind of flaky and innocuous new-agey type “healing” modality, maybe something like T.A. (anyone remember Transactional Analysis? It was all the rage a few decades ago; probably still around). But the Bubble will keep shooting itself in the foot until it bursts. My two cents today.

Odd thing about the Mormons. I went my last year of school in Twin Falls, Idaho. Good Mormon country. They came out with an questionnaire of what religion you were. I put down “none” and the teacher went off her nut. LOL. Started screaming that everyone should know the Bible inside and out, etc. I just said: “You must be new here (she was an older woman), as this is Mormon country, and they would be reading and studying the “Book of Mormon.” LOL. Never did find out what happened to the questionnaires.

C/S = Case supervisor, I believe. The person who reviews an auditor’s work and a PC’s progress, and can intervene to “handle” errors in treatment or approach. In the end the C/S verifies that the PC has made the appropriate progress for the just-completed level or grade.

Remember that at OT VIII they discover they are who they were before they first walked in the door and took a personality test. This person is describing someone who is not a Scientologist. They are stable, happy, not troubled by much. Sounds like most people I know.

I was just about to say the same thing (“stable”, “happy” can describe any number of non-Scientologists).

How many stable, happy, untroubled OTVIII’s does one actually see out in society (assuming one encounters a Scientologist at all since the cult’s membership stats are extremely low)? How many of their smiles and (coerced) success stories hide the fact that

a) they’re in deep debt?
b) they’re on their 3rd or 4th marriage?
c) their family is fractured due to disconnection?
d) they’re mentally fragile, on the verge of a breakdown?
e) they’re either living in fear or anger all the time under the threat of “entheta”?

In the online responses I’ve read, OTs are miserable, bitter, crass, vile, petty, arrogant, insane creatures that often pollute their communication and their space with conflicting Hubbard dogmas. Far from the image of contentment or stability that the cult wishes to project. I can do without the stress of keeping up a façade.

Off topic. Today I went to Amsterdam to see Ideal Org in progress in my native country. I took a bunch of pictures. Official opening 28 of October (according to one off the constructers I have spoken with).
I find it bizzare that scientology can open an Ideal Org here in the Netherland. I am an former orthodox protestant, But already not practisizing for more than 20 years when I left home (I do however from time to time go to chuch because off arictecture, cultute and a meditative moment.
Dutch people are quite sober and calvinistic. From my early childhood I was already warned for “cult and sect” like jehovah’s witnesses . I still can rember that I was approached by scientology on the street in the early eighties in Arnhem (also the time of Baghban). But I was already warned apprehensive.

I have to say that quite a lot op the postings on this web-blog are truely fascinating to read. Sometimes better than Kieregaard, Voltaire, Kant and Freud. I think that Terra Incognita is a brilliant writer. I would suggest a proffession?

Mike do you have an email adress where I can send the pictures of the A”dam “Ideal Org” to. Or is Tony Ortega a better way to go? I will definitely visit grand opening late October to make additional pictures.

Who is David Miscavage? Has scientoligy [sic] deemed the comma SP, as well as the semi-colon, because this person certainly didn’t want to use it. And what’s with the wonky font? Made the whole thing irritating to read (not that it wasn’t already).

When I did OT 8 in 1988, the great promise was “to remove amnesia on the whole track” . I personally think that with Hubbard dead only two years, the tech department had to come up with something and use me and others as test subjects. Well the test failed. The idea was to use History of Man and Hubbard’s famous “Jesus was a lover of young boys and men” Bulletin to remove the implants from Xenu and “others”. These others were not named, of course. Tech did not have any real way to do this so they told me to invent my own processes which I did gladly being bored by standard tech. I invented my own C/S and sent it back and got a big “ack” for being so clever. I ran these processes on myself with an e-meter for two full days. I reached an E/P which included two ideas:
1. I really did not need Scientology, Hubbard or the Freewinds.
2. Hubbard was totally stupid on the subject of Buddhism and had it and all religion wrong.

As far as amnesia on the whole track, I really saw that Hubbard’s idea of the structure of the “track” was wrong anyway. Hubbard was a 19th century occult son of Blavatsky, pure and simple. So amnesia on the whole track was just Hubbard’s copied idea of what they were talking about a century earlier.

In 1950’s California, disabled license plates used 2 interlocking triangles with a P in each one. I eventually learned it stood for Paraplegic, but when I moved to Pacific Palisades from farm country outside Toronto in 1956. I thought people in the Palisades were so rich they were given their own license plates. lol

Thanks, Bob I appreciate the kind words. I have studied the occult in some depth gaining insight into Hubbard at every step. The double triangles used in Scientology have an interesting background. According to Blavatsky, the double triangles go back to King Solomon who was known in his later life as an extreme Occultist. In order to obtain transmigration of the soul or spirit, the mathematical symbols of the day required two triangles. The is obvious and is found in Hubbard’s Theta/Mest theory which is when the two mix. This later became the star of David. This is all interpreted by Blavatsky and some esoteric specialists would not agree. Most of the terms used in Scientology can be traced to Hindu,Theosophy, Kaballah,Thelema, or Plato. What I find most interesting is that Hubbard took Tone 40 or “Serenity of Being” from Hindu scripture. The “beingness” word was first used by Blavatsky. What I find is that Hubbard was very active in the occult from about 1923 to 1949. He avoided mentioning his real sources.

“I reached an E/P which included two ideas:
1. I really did not need Scientology, Hubbard or the Freewinds.
2. Hubbard was totally stupid on the subject of Buddhism and had it and all religion wrong.

As far as amnesia on the whole track, I really saw that Hubbard’s idea of the structure of the “track” was wrong anyway. Hubbard was a 19th century occult son of Blavatsky, pure and simple. So amnesia on the whole track was just Hubbard’s copied idea of what they were talking about a century earlier.”

I think that could be shown on screen during an episode of Aftermath, and even most of the general public would recognize right off that it’s worthless babble that wouldn’t justify paying $50 and investing the time to go to a weekend course, much less the fortune and the decades it cost “L.K.”

p.s. Good catch, whoever it was who pointed out that even DM’s last name is misspelled.

I’ve said this on many other posts but never here. The CoS DOES NOT DELIVER LRH’S OT 8. It does however deliver DM’s squirreled version of the last part of 3 parts of OT8. The CoS has NEVER delivered OT 8. The only place to get OT8 is from a select few auditors in the independent field.

The first HCOB, that is an LRH HCOB about OT8, that is also on the net is fairly well known. It was published 1 Oct 1969, Why Thetans Mock Up. Other HCOBs on the net claiming to be LRH HCOBs are fakes. All others.

Success stories or failures coming out of the CoS are based on squirreled versions of part 3. If you are a CoS OT8 you have NOT received LRHs OT8. Sorry for the bad or good news, depending on how you receive that news.

There are many or rather mostly, hidden standards and misconceptions about much of Scientology and OT8 as well. If you left the CoS following DM’s version of OT8 then my advise would be for you to connect with a field auditor capable of delivering this fabulous level and do it, as well as any clean up from CoS squirreled auditing. Which if you did in the CoS you are the recipient of and not just on 8. The level is amazing to do, when done properly and fully, I will repeat here, WHICH YOU DID NOT GET IN THE CoS EVER, NOT in any of their Versions.

I won’t go into an explanation of what the level does technically to your case, but what is does do is undermine the very footings of what remains of your case, very thoroughly. This level is the first level, in all of Scientology, that is specifically directed at you, your case, your postulates and as such, produces spectacular change.

Exactly Mike. I smell an apologist and a true believer. Remember apostates Ron is great it’s just DM blah blah blah… The tech is fabulous but only if you manage to get the real thing yada yada yada. YAWN!

Tim-S, I understand that you don’t wish to go into the technical details, but can you please at least tell us what are the exact “abilities gained” upon completion of this “fabulous” level?

You see, $cn has been very long on promises and incredibly short on verifiable results, so most everyone with sense who’s been around it for awhile has a jaundiced view of anything that sounds like more of the same.

But not me! I’m still sitting here with an open mind, waiting to see some real objectively verifiable proof of any kind of real OT super powers, like telekinesis, telepathy, prescience, continuity of consciousness across lifetimes, etc..

The disappointing thing is that no one seems to be able to produce even the smallest and most inconsequential displays of OT super powers, so I’m really starting to lose hope that I ever will. So, please go ahead and do your best to bring that empirical evidence forward soon, because, as I’m sure you’re aware, Indie $cientology seems to be dying out fast, with just you and a very few others left in the wild.

Everyone knows that the miscaviged tech doesn’t work, but unless proof from the outside is forthcoming soon, then I just don’t see how Scn can survive, do you?

Harpoona Frittata- Thanks for your civil posting. There is an E/P and a short list of abilities gained that like many other levels, is confidential. None of them, the short list, contain anything like telekinesis or any of the commonly talked about OT abilities. This is simply not what the level is about. The level for me was significant in terms of case change and viewpoint change. I have stated previously that OT8 returned my eternity to me. Meaning, not only am I aware of it, personally, but certainty of my place in it and my causative control of it. In other words my eternity is mine. In order to appreciate a statement like that one needs an understanding of the machinery that has been controlling ones life in the past and in the present. The birth-life-death-rebirth cycle is one example. That cycle for me is now broken. There are many such gains from the level. I finished it over a year ago and am still seeing change and recognizing differences. So it has not yet settled out fully. Many of these are subtle and difficult to describe.

A better answer is I believe, is available in understanding the mechanics of the case involved and how 8 unburdens that case, which is what it does. And that is a very significant thing to accomplish. The understanding of the case involved is not directly available in the CoS, unfortunately. One can study that area of case within the CoS but it won’t be recognized as such. Never-the -less, training on the B.C, which is where the basic data lies, is imperative to ones eternity. In addition to the BC a professorial understanding of NOTS, Class 8 & 10 is advised. Following that then one needs additional data to enable one to audit what remains of case following 8, i.e. what to audit and how to address it.

There is much more case that remains, something on the order of 99%. Fortunately, LRH’s Bridge very craftily unburdens ones case exactly as needed to enable one to address these other areas that remain. Due to the mechanics of LRH’s Bridge, a sphere around one is created that is relatively free of restimulating factors allowing one to address these more powerful areas of case that remain. Despite the large quantity of remaining case it resolves to standard and well done auditing utilizing the many tools LRH developed. OT8 is a part of that process or set up. Personally I audited much of that other material not having done 8. It was a ride for sure. Once I did 8 I could see that it smooths the road enabling addressing that material with less fireworks and less horsepower thrown at one.

But your question was about wins and gains. Sorry for the detour but it is impossible to understand the significance of 8, IMO, without understanding what is is doing to ones case. The Ep is about Freedoms and as they are realized ones full understanding unfolds over a period of time. Having done ALL of the Bridge including L’s, I can easily say that 8 was the most significant level for me in terms of wow factor. Recognizing ones eternity and ones place in it anew is indescribable. We, collectively, haven’t had our own eternities for almost an eternity and it is a bit boggling to get it back so clearly.

In ALL of the Bridge anyone has done, 8 is the first time YOU are directly addressed as a being. Your case is directly addressed and unburdened for the first time in ALL of your prior auditing. It is a real joy to experience your own case gain. And it’s the first time in a very,very long time.

Firstly, the idea of “case” must be accepted. Naturally everyone has negative experiences in their past. The Buddha didn’t address his case, he stepped out of it.

I don’t deny that significant benefits can be gained from scn. One time I was auditing a middle age fellow on recall lists from the book “Self Analysis”. The auditing command was “Recall a time when someone had just given you something.”

He started waving his hands in the air and saying “No! No! No!” He was reliving the time when he had been dumped off at an orphanage as a child and someone was trying to give him an ice cream cone to quiet him down.

He might have written a real success story about that.

Soon after I left scn I hooked up with a gal who had been in a different cult. She had read somewhere that 30 to 40 percent of all people got “better” no matter what “therapy” they pursued. What I’m saying is that I don’t believe there is any one size fits all spiritual path.

Tim, thank you for your post. Congrats on your wins. I know you personally and know that you are not a troll as Wynski erroneously labelled you. It is OK to disagree with you without having to call you names and sling epithets in my humble opinion.

Wynski, if I wanted to get into a long debate with you, I would challenge your “never been wrong in my targeting statement by asking for docs as in provide docs that prove you’ve never been wrong in your targeting. You have targeted A LOT of people on this blog, including me at one time. But as I said, I don’t want to debate you, so I won’t demand docs.

Scientology is the ultimate carrot and the stick and OT8 is the ‘End’. It’s supposed to be a motivator to self-improve, but it’s Out-Exchange with reality. The cost of the Courses and Services are supposed to relate to how much the individual needs to improve, but thousands upon thousands of dollars to reach OT8 to simply ‘Be’? (Be, to exist simply, like a couch potato) Wrong, the Church of Scientology is devoid of authority when it comes this. Working on a status and levels basis is wrong, as if an individual does not display objective proof of these gains, whether mundane or Superpower, then they were not gains. Writing a ‘Win’ for public display does not equate to Objective Reality abilities. Again, they are devoid of any authority in their state of disrepair. And NO, Ron is not coming back to fix this.

“More than anything, this level made me happy. Happy there are no more levels. Happy I had finally figured out that what’s been in the back of my mind all along is true–that it’s all a big nothing except a money scam. Happy I’m getting off this ship of fools.”

Lol, reminds me of an old ad for some stupid piece of exercise equipment where, in his testimonial for the product, this bloke stated something along these lines: “there’s so many words I could use to describe how great this product is, its just .. great!” … jargon is overrated anyway ?

My spouse and I still quote from an informercial of a couple of decades ago, for a weight-loss system called The Grapefruit Diet which featured a stubborn-looking, mustache-wearing young man staring into the camera and intoning:

“We’re talking SCIENCE here! We’re talking RESEARCH!”

As I come to think of it now, it is pretty much the same quality of “scientific” backing that LRH provided for his claims.

“I would like to thank RTC and Mr. David Miscavige for this technology”.
As a “never-in” there is a lot I don’t know, but isn’t it specifically L Ron that develop this tech & L Ron who should be thanked? Or is history being blurred here & DM is subconsciously being credited for all of Scientology’s wonderful accomplishments?

The idea is similar to that of many Christian heretical movements and those of other faiths as well: the idea is that the Founder’s, LRH’s, pure intent and teaching were corrupted or “squirreled” by faithless apostates or (at best) incompetent scribes, before being restored to full purity (“Standard Tech”) by the true heir to the Founder, in this case Mr. David Miscavige, who defeated the apostates and the squirrels and made sure every fake-news misplaced semi-colon was removed from the sacred texts.

That’s why the constant thanks to Miscavige in his role as the Guardian of Standard Tech after the monsters and SPs like Mayo and Rinder and others had done so much to wreck LRH’s inspired works.

Without OT VIII remaining a secret (along with the rest of the OT levels), Scientology is doomed. If anyone here had read a synopsis of what you actually “get” in each Scientology level, but at the beginning of their involvement, then Scientology’s buildings would be even emptier than they are now.

AH yes! The real definition of zero, aka, the static, in its fully dramatized state. It still wouldn’t be able to blow the froth of my beer, no matter how it postulated it, even at point blank. Plus I wouldn’t let it happen, if they’re that OT they can go get their own beer.

At least on Tgt 2 as a long term plan hey?
If I ever venture back over to the US, got heaps of family there now (geezers the Americans can breed, must be the cold winters) sure let’s share a beer or 3. I’m game and always do silly.

“I am now able to exteriorize at will. I can recall all details of this and any previous lifetime. I can influence anyone’s thoughts at a distance and you will hear a surprising and peaceful announcement from North Korea within the next few days. I have healed my friend’s cancer and she is now on her way home from the hospital. I have achieved OT.”

Instead they parrot pretend wins as directed and approved by fake ‘saviors’.
What a joke!

Oh that’s sad. That’s a coined letter if I ever saw one. The poor soul who wrote that wanted so badly to end the torture and be off the ship (and probably Scientology too). It says exactly what the staff want to see and it is their ticket home. Want to bet that new OT8 is now mysteriously unavailable and probably has changed their phone number, if not their address. In other words they have gone into hiding.

When I was on staff in Honolulu, I finished a course. Naturally they wanted a ‘Success Story.’ I replied, “The course was ok, but, nothing to write home about.” You’d have thought I called Hubbard an asshole. They were pissed off.

I understand that many of you may think that your years in CoS gave you benefits (albeit at an exorbitant cost). And it’s admirable to find meaning in something that has left such a bad taste in your psyche. I think you’ve done a great job of explaining that your initial attraction was similar to what most of us do when figuring out how to navigate life.

But reading what a lot of you say and seeing how you think, I can’t help but wonder if you might have reached the same conclusions about life using a variety of approaches or strategies you would have undoubtedly been curious enough to explore along the way if CoS had not been such a crazy, jealous mistress and monopolized your time and resources.

I don’t want you to seem robbed of the feeling you may have got something (although it obviously did not justify the steep cost), but please don’t assume you wouldn’t have reached the same conclusions from a different path. Minus a whole lot of cognitive dissonance and catchy buzz words or course.

If CoS had any merits whatsoever, they lay not in LRH’s dichotomous dogma or the torturous path to the OT Eagle Scout badge. Anything at all redeeming about that place sounds like it was because a group of good people like you that managed to survive without turning into caricatures of yourselves or post-revolution Red Guard thosts, and live to tell about it.

The best thing I have seen about CoS are the very nice people who have decided to escape it. If it has enjoyed any real success, financial or otherwise, it is despite itself not because of what it does. Like some insatiable vampire, it just keeps sucking the blood out from good people who just want to be better versions of themselves. At least you are all proof that whatever they did, it is not nearly as strong as the human spirit because you are here and the storm is gathering.

And frankly, for what it’s worth, I think the whole Xenu thing was some secret fantasy LRH had about one of HIS former lives. It just reeks of toxic narcissism, pathological paranoia and revenge. I think he was also afraid that some psychiatrist somewhere would uncover that dark little secret and expose him using the same methods of extortion he used on others. So he covered it up with piling on bureaucracy and Process like layers of pancake makeup from a Broadway show.

And the best reason to say that none of it really works is because you are all out while what remains is a safe place for the perfect totalitarian Frankenstein – D Monster himself – to continue to flourish and prosper and cause unnecessary suffering for his own benefit or entertainment, and he did so using the same strategies LRH laid out in detail, allegedly to bring salvation to the planet, all of which make the whole program either vulnerable to manipulation from outside forces or absolutely malevolent.

Because any organization that purports to contribute something worthy to the universe has to actually prove that it is successful by embodying its highest ideals from the top down, and not reflecting merely the basest ones. As a recently departed Communications Director said, “fish rots from the head down”.

I’m going to try to respond to what you’ve said this way: A person’s “wins and gains” obtained from Scientology processes or training, , or from ANY therapies or experiences or activities, if they are real and STABLE wins and gains, CANNOT be “robbed” of them, because, if they are real, and if they are stable, they become PART of a person, part of the personality, the character of the person.

“I don’t HAVE TO scream at my mother-in-law anymore when she says or does so and so, because afterwards I feel terrible and afterwards I have to have a couple of martinis to calm down and then I snap at my husband and we have a fight…”.

” If that’s a real win, a stable win, and the person has long wanted to STOP screaming at her mother in law, then she WILL stop screaming at her mother in law. She doesn’t HAVE TO any more. Now she knows she has a choice to scream or not scream whereas before she felt COMPELLED to scream. .that’s a major stable win and if she exerts some self discipline and pays attention when its happening, that realization and that self control become part of her personality and character. She breaks the destructive habit of becoming a screaming mess in front of her mother in law and she becomes happier because she’s in control of her emotions around this woman now, she can let this woman be herself and not become unglued.

THAT would be a VERY big win, IMO. And after auditing or whatever therapy, the person could BELIEVE that she had achieved it, and (in Scientology) write a Success Story about it but that means very little if it doesn’t translate into an improved condition. If she only talks the talk of the win and never walks the walk…well, you get the idea.

Lastly, I don’t believe anyone here would swear that only Scientology could have given them their wins and gains.

Speaking for myself, I did a bunch of stuff before Scientology, pretty much everything except seeing a shrink because I couldn’t afford that. But I did EST, some other stuff, read a lot of self help books (and I do mean A LOT).

Scientology helped me but who’s to say that something else would not have helped too and possibly cost a great deal less?

That was more or less my point, probably said in a better way. People who want to better themselves will find a way to do that, and the method is almost immaterial. I’m from the “if you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him” school of philosophy because I think we put too much emphasis on process and become overly reliant on method, and don’t trust intent enough, but that’s just me. I don’t think that religion is necessarily the opiate of the masses, but I think it’s a convenient app that some people tend to lean on during their journey. I just don’t like seeing people discouraged from feeling this was negative or a total waste of time. I think it’s less what happens to us and more how we ultimately choose to react to it that is the main thing. I don’t regret any shitty thing I’ve been through whether I caused it or not. I decided to believe it was a learning experience I chose to have at some point, and that I must have a pretty thick head or an eye from drama to need that level of viscerality. Success is never about avoiding mistakes, it’s just about not repeating the same ones over and over.

“I think it’s less what happens to us and more how we ultimately choose to react to it that is the main thing.”

I totally agree. I’ve known people who sustained serious setbacks and losses, who were laid flat for a while, who grieved and suffered and/or were poor for a while, for the most part coming back to their lives positive and forward looking.

I know others who had some losses and used them to never venture “out” again – “out” meaning activity along the line of endeavor on which they sustained the loss (“I’ll NEVER _____again”)

There are even people who commit suicide because they get fired from a job.

Attitude is everything. As they in the Marines (I was engaged to 2 of them so I heard this a lot) “Life is a bitch, and then you die.”

There’s always this choice to live and make something good out of what we have. Particularly we who don’t live in the 3rd World. We have so much, so very much, that billions of others have not. OK, end of sermon, sorry 🙂

Hi Mike!
This is a long-overdue hello! I’m the money laundering and financial fraud expert Jeffrey A mentioned to you a while back; you can also find me on Karen’s private FB page under my real name. Anyway, I’ve been posting over on the bunker for sometime, and as I actually began regularly reading your blog before Tony’s, it’s time I joined you and the gang here. I’ve followed your Scion experiences with great interest and empathy, starting back when you finally blew from London to your eventual freedom, and throughout all that’s transpired since then. I’m delighted that in finding Christie, you’ve been able to build a second, unconditionally loving family, and that your partnership with Leah has been so effective in exposing the current cherch for the criminals they are. In my mantle of Scion critic, I’ve teamed-up with Jeffrey Augustine and his Scientology Money Project, primarily to vigorously rejuvenate the attack on the cherch’s obscene tax exemption. In leveraging the incredible collective anger you and Leah have aroused, through individualizing examples of the cherch’s abuse, fraud, and criminality, my goal is exposing it’s opaque, Byzantine finances and corporate structure, so that our collective efforts compel the authorities to revisit the ’93 consent agreement. More importantly, that they immediately begin vigorously investigating past incidences of child abuse, staff abuse, human trafficking, and endemic R-1 religious visa fraud.

I’m currently in the midst of a re-read through the critic’s canon, having just finished Jon Atack’s “Let’s sell these people a piece of blue sky”. As you know, the last several years have seen an incredible outpouring of works addressing all things Scientology; to me, “…blue sky” excels in speaking to the heart of what makes LRH’s organizational ethos so evil. Topically, OTVIII appears in a variety of historical contexts, and in many ways, aptly illustrates the counter-intuitive, paradoxical nature of much of LRH’s “tech”. It seems OTVIII’s 1988 release was controversial from it’s inception, as LRH initially makes claims as to being the anti-Christ, and that Christ was a homosexual pedophile, among the many inflammatory ramblings therein.

Supposedly, some early adepts were driven insane as a result of delving into OTVIII, and among other controversies, it was further alleged that the content was never even authored by LRH in the first place. Initially débuted on the Freewinds, to some 200 select candidates, it was then nothing like the current iteration. The current OTVIII “data” comprises auditing focusing on past lives as well as a good chunk of “Scientology: a history of man”, having edited out LRH’s anti-Christ posturing among other utterances. While I make no claims here as an expert, my summation reflects common themes evident in a variety of sources; significantly, that OTVIII, in it’s current iteration, in no way remotely reflects neither the intent nor content of “source”.

Therefore, how can anyone make any claim as to the efficacy of OTVIII, when it appears to be nothing more than an amalgam? Essentially a reiterated iteration for that matter; not that it’s any different from the rest of COB’s “COBing”-together “the tech”! The OTVIII creation story (or perhaps “myth” is more appropriate), speaks to the randomness, indeed the vacuity, of what constitutes the entirety of “The Bridge”. Mike, your observations about the banality of this OTVIII’s win, abundantly reinforces the charade, indeed the inherent fraud emblematic of Scientology since it’s inception. LRH purloined so much of the core antecedents of Dianetcs, from legitimate theories and practices of psychotherapy, that it was inevitable some of Scientology’s adherents would obtain “successful” results in some way, shape, or form.

However, must “wins” then be predicated upon how much of a “win” is then attributable to the actual practices of Scientology, to “the tech”, rather than one’s inherent psychosomatic ability to ache, heal, or coerce? For something that claims to be grounded in scientific principles, there’s hardly objective proof for ANY OT result in Scientology, aside from the repetitive, axiomatic evidence of inevitable financial destitution. Sadly, at the end of the day for many of these deluded Scions, a “win” reflects a desperate grab for something, anything, descriptive of an improvement to the status quo. These “improvements” are desperately lauded, despite all evidence to the contrary, as to what the wog world would define as “winning”: a tangible, and therefore viable and beneficial outcome (Charlie Sheen notwithstanding…). It boils down to what constitutes value from a Scion’s perception, and thus is not necessarily reflective of an outlay of $500,000 or so… I think for all my time and half a mil, I’d want something a little more tangible than the “stability of natural happiness”, which seems nothing more than typical tortuous Scion syntax… Isn’t emotive stability concomitant with normal human behavior? Oh well, I guess she had to attest to something before Thursday at 1400 hrs.!

If you’re not already aware of it, George White (a partial alias) who posts here sometimes, is the expert on OT VIII. He did the early “anti-Christ” version that sent a lot of people off the deep end, and has since done a lot of study to come to really understand the occult roots of Scientology, including in the work of Aleister Crowley. I kind of came to it the other way, having knowledge and some experience of the occult including Crowley (as well as hypnotism) before coming across Scientology – perhaps why it never really took with me, because I could see what Hubbard was really up to – and think that George is really spot-on.

p.s. I hope Messiah or Madman is on your “canon” list; as much as Atack is a great researcher, Corydon has the perspective of having been in the thick of things during the latter part of Scientology’s heyday, as well as the advantage of contributions from Hubbard’s son “Nibs,” who was heavily involved early on and seems to really convey the influence of Crowley, even if he he sounds a bit sensational at times (I suspect that a good bit of that, is just that he is uncritically passing on tall tales told to him by his father).

Hiya PM! Thanks for the Messiah or Madman reference; I’ll add it to the shelf. The connection with Parsons & Crowley has always been interesting to me as well, as it seems like such a reach until LRH’s intent is put into perspective, as a “seeker” of sorts.

hello mike and fellow posters,
When i read about success stories like these ( and I use the word ‘success’ with a truck load of sarcasm), the questions always stack up in my head. What exactly are these successes? I am trying to be as respectful as I possibly can, but this is hardly a sterling testimonial.

I suppose, with a little imagination, “successes” in the mental realm could be explained similarly to an explanation of alcohol.
If one never touched the stuff how would another explain what it is like?
Generally at some point, usually in the beginning the level of communication you experience in Scientology processing paths the way to self examination and worth – or so it seems. Haven’t you ever gotten something off your chest and felt better about it, or maybe had a good cry on a sympathetic shoulder?
Scientology zeros in on that type of euphoria, gives it levels and fancy names and you do feel like it will solve a lot of things and all will be well with life. It’s very cleverly put together.
But sticking with the analogy of alcohol, it gives you a hangover but you go back for the high again and again, it’s good, and you ignore the bad. But do it too often and your life starts falling to pieces along with your health. Read Cecybeans comment above – good people make the most of anything and are very trusting generally, plus resilient, but being smart and doing the right thing must come from within for any long term happiness. Thinking for yourself or being self determined isn’t easy, but if it was, the world wouldn’t be in such a mess and people falling prey to things like the Cof$.
Scientology promised something and truly failed to deliver. Any good it did can only be measured by those who saw the scam and walked out the door – those are the stories that grace this blog and give it authenticity. Even the haters of all things Scientology have their justified place in the explanation of it.
There are some things to know and a few lessons that can be gotten out of all of this but seeing the Cof$ collapse and the criminals in it jailed would be somewhat of a proper foundation for any spiritual assessment or education of the effects of Scientology imo.

Those who are awake of what Scientology really is can say without any doubt: This path, starting from a newbie knocking at the door for the first time… up to all the OT levels, is not a true spiritual road to a total freedom… but a long-long way out to a DEAD-END !

In 1975 the entire “Bridge” cost about $8,000 and maybe less if you co audited. That would translate to about $80,000 in today’s dollars. Whether it’s worth any money at all is a matter of opinion – lol – It was always about making money for LRH and now DM. I learned some things and got some benefits along the way. I wouldn’t do it over, as far as I went, but that’s hindsight and no regrets.

You all talk about the cost being $500,000. It’s far, far more expensive than that. My ex-husband spent so much more on books, IAS, lodging at Flag, airline expense, time off work (that’s the biggest one)… THEN… it cost him his marriage, cause the C of S told him he needed to get a divorce if I wasn’t going to do anymore Scientology.

Sadly, this is modus operandi because the public has one foot out the door with a non-Scientologist spouse. I’m curious if they pressured you to get onto Life Repair (~$7,500) like they did to my wife.

Oh Ginny… I wish there was an easy way to undue that type of misery for you. It is unfortunately a typical type of scenario that Scientology creates. Best of luck to you, if it is any consolation you are far more self determined than your ex husband. It always saddens me to hear of this type of thing.

Got a repost on my Facebook feed tonight. Jim Bates says he lives in Puerto Rico and the Army Navy Volunteer Ministers and Celebrities are all helping and to not believe CNN. Clicked on Jim Bates page and there he has a pic of 7 yellow shits. Told my cousin who shared it that he was a Scientologist not to believe him. They are going pretty low to use the situation in Puerto Rico to further slam CNN.

The Clear Cognition is to understand that you’ve been mocking up your own reactive mind, and that you’ve stopped doing it now. Perhaps the ultra top secret OTVIII Cognition is to realize that the whole OT process and Scientology in general is LRH’s grand joke!

Nah! That was OT III! My huge cog was, “Damn! I’m running Ron’s case!” ‘Struth. Not what I told the Examiner, but huge blowdown and dial wide F/N which continued for quite some time. And I don’t think that LRH was making a joke. His final hours had him running those processes on himself and finally admitting he had failed. What you get from scio is not what was *given* to you, but what you personally created or found for yourself. But that was back in the 60s and 70s. By the 80s, it all started totally downhill.

Peter, from what I’ve read, it sounds like quite a few OT IIIs had the cognition that they were running Hubbard’s case. It would be interesting to start to try to figure out how many people had that same realization; I wonder if there is anything like a thread on ESMB.

As I’ve expressed before, my take on what happened in Scientology was that a lot of idealistic, mostly young people, filled with the zeitgiest of expanding their consciousness and helping others, flooded the missions and orgs starting in the 1960s, and sort of made it what they thought it ought to be. Meanwhile, Hubbard was refining his orthodox, controlling version of Scientology on the ships with the Sea Org, and that was spread and enforced as the SO came ashore in the 70s and spread its influence down to the mission level in the 1980s.

Come to think of it, OT III, which dates to the late 1960s, might be considered the first harbinger of how Hubbardian thought orthodoxy was going to be imposed on Scientology, including inculcating scientologists in the Hubbard mindset of narcissism and psychopathy. And perhaps that even fit with the every-man-for-himself, greed-is-good type of mentality that arose after the hippie generation was eclipsed.

Yep… I had a little longer lag but came to the same conclusion. Space cooties is a remarkable fabrication though.
The KSW Series sealed it as a cult and a Hubbard created navy to enforce it. It sure muddles the mind to take a overview of Scientology and to realise you were apart of it.
Aw well, shit happens…

Actually, that’s exactly what it is. The big secret is that you are now who you were when you walked into the building. The space cooties are gone, and all those memories you spent hundred of thousands of dollars recovering and auditing away, weren’t your memories. They were the space cooties.

As Popeye said, I yam what I yam. That’s a bargain for 500,000, all your familial relationships, and your life.

OMG.
So much time, money, sacrifice, and all they can muster up is propitiation… ‘…Thank you so much, thank you, thank you Ron….thank you Dave, thank you Sea Org (see, I’m a good scnist as I’ve used all the right words and thanked all the right people)…’
Barf.

I liked the one about the truck driver in Wyoming driving in icy conditions who exteriorized and gave the truck a theta kick to get it back on the road better. Much more entertaining than this success story.

The word on the street after “new OT8” came out, was that the ep was “no longer had a case” (whatever exactly that meant). My take on that at the time was that nothing in this earthly existence REALLY bothered you much. Then when a new OT8 came into the BC room and sat near me at a CD machine, I looked at her with much wonder. Never did talk to her, but I was disappointed in some vague way. She just kinda LOOKED a bit downtone and I expected at least SOME type of “theta aura”, incredible calmness of huge ARC emanations or something, know what I mean?

Then a few years later, I read a story on Marty’s blog about an OT8 (think her name was Mary Jo Klein) who approached a reg cycle with Lundeen and some others VERY nervously and sort of “keyed in” it appeared, and I thought, geez an OT8 keyed in about an upcoming reg cycle just because she knew she was gonna be invalidated and extorted. No fun certainly, BUT SHE’S OT8 FERCRYINOUTLOUD!!!!!

*****************************

I never even thought of “super powers” in the early 1970s when I was first getting audited and training as an auditor. Didn’t even listen to the Philly lectures until about 2003 or so. Had no interest in all the spectacular OT wins in Advance mag at the time. I still had trouble talking to girls. But in any case, I had my hands full doing my post and becoming a pro auditor in my study time.

If I didn’t expect “super powers” or “soul flying at will”, then what DID I expect of the state of OT?

1. Tremendous strength of postulate as a being.

2. Rock solid integrity of self … that means, cannot be intimidated either by the assholes that surround us or really upset about the usual ups and downs of life. The ability to stand up to virtually everything that might happen with equanimity and personal sense of power.

3. COMPLETE certainty that one as a thetan just moves on and causatively after body death. No worry AT ALL on this issue. Truly FREE of the birth death cycle.

Wouldn’t the above be OT?

OT8? I expected that from OT THREE!!!!!!!!!! (from getting through the “wall of fire”).

**************************

Well, I had great personal gains in Scientology. But I would have to say that LRH certainly was not honest about what he promoted to people. Hell, he himself did not display what I had always presumed to be an OT! DMSMH’s section on The Clear says the clear’s most important attribute is rationality, and yet Ron himself … do I even need to give specifics here? Has Heber acted rationally throughout his long career, and as an OT? And not to bash him, because I could give over a hundred names in the next ten minutes if I was writing a book here.

So, yeah, the wins in this post are TRULY WEAK WATER!!!

But the dream goes on for the true believers. OT8 is the top of “the bridge to TOTAL FREEDOM” … Well, I guess if one believes that ….

And I’ll add that I’m quite sure most current Scientologists do NOT believe that OT8 is any top of the bridge to total freedom, that the totalness of that still awaits them on OT9 … or probably more so at OT 25 … just as soon as Ron gets back and writes those all up …

Yes. “Be sure to thank David Miscavige and LRH.”
was the directions when finishing this level.
I guess an OTVIII is no longer required to mention how great the Basics were as I and so many others were in my era. Then everyone’s Success Story is edited to make sure all is okay with it and you’ve said everything you need to say.

Heads will roll on the above Success Story though. It appears the New OT VIII and the editor don’t know how to spell Dave’s last name.

Off topic, but I just saw a Law and Order rerun about a young boy who was in a cult who confesses to murdering his father.. The word “clear” was used in the dialogue, with the boy responding to a police question by saying”Because I am Clear”. There were long explanations by the boy about how he took the courses so that he would not be “dictated by the what happened in the past”. I was in a laundrymat or I would have gotten more detail.

Apparently not everyone believed in Elron’s intergalactic conflict story. In the “Going Clear” movie Paul Haggis said he thought OT3 was nonsense and apparently he just glossed over it to see what came next. The only true NON believers in spirits or disembodied beings would be atheists. Agnostics are fence sitters. Anyone who prays believes in “A Spirit” (monotheism) or “Spirits” (polytheism). Anyone who believes in reincarnation believes in spirits. (Where and what were you when you aren’t you? Mr. Hubbard said he had that one figured out)

Faint praise, anyone? “Faint Praise: To provide praise that is minimal or inconsequential, implying that such praise is the best that could be said.” The overarching hollow praise of this letter is underwhelming in its substance and overwhelming in its obvious disappointment.

“I could say that I became very stable ”
Great. Reconfirm this in a month or so when the credit card bills come in.

“…and I have nothing troubling me or my state of being.”
Ditto.

FYI, I’m not invalidating anyone’s gains from auditing or training. But how “stable” and “OT” people are after being audited shows up in the way they handle their lives, and/or how they mostly feel, weeks, months and years AFTER the auditing.

Success stories of themselves are not impressive.

Get back to us in 6 months, LK, and let us know, is your life really better, or does it still suck?

The success story’s author’s initials are L.K.? My ex-neighbor Lorraine Kozimbo Clear #15,689 was a Scientologist. I don’t know where she is right now, maybe she made it to the Freewinds and this is her story and those are her initials. I am not sure though. 🙂

I like that Zen proverb. Its honest. Not sure if you’re being funny or if its really Zen but I like it. Reminds me of the way Tom Sawyer got his friends to whitewash that fence. He talked them into doing his own dreaded chore by making it appear a privilege to do so. Ok, so that’s not a good example because it was a con job on Tom Sawyer’s part, but still, attitude is everything. Why not decide to be happy, for no particular reason? I like it.

Well, you’ve got me going now. I’m going to have to read up on Zen, now. I love reading about different religions and practices. I just finished an informal study of the Wyccans.
Interesting stuff! So many Christian holidays stem from paganism. Very interesting to me. Religion is very interesting to me as a study. i know nothing of Zen. Current knowledge equated to the name of an excellent vegetarian restaurant in my area 🙂

Aquamarine – Some sects of Zen Buddhism allow for sudden or instant Awakening or Enlightenment rather than an arduous and lifelong path. Nondualism follows in that tradition. Adyashanti, Alan Watts, Mooji, Gangaji (female) and other nondualism teachers have youtube presentations.

I delved into it for several months last year. I don’t plod through the videos, just skip around. I often speed up the videos and just listen without trying to be analytical about everything as in scn. Some things indicate right away and if something doesn’t I just let it pass. Much of it is intuitive.

Thank you, Richard. I’ve always been curious about religious beliefs and how they tie in with one another. I’ll look up what “nondualism” means along with those other names. The same curiosity about the origins of life etc. that got me into Scientology has not abated now that I’m out. There’s so much to learn!

Oh my goodness I about choked on my ice tea over the El Con Tubbolard……I need to not take a sip before I read these! Thanks for the laugh. Well his enlightened might have come but he’ll be paying those credit card bills for the next billion years. How do people justify trading massive debt that they will be a slave to for so called enlightenment to a so-called religion that they are a slave to?

El Con Tunbolard is good for a laugh. I, however, feel so sorry for the people that are in and were in this cult because they had everything taken from them. Financially it must have been and is terrible for those folks. Allot of them lost family members too. Many were and are physically and sexually abused? Sch a terrible thing t happen. To think this man conned so many people and that D.M. Still is. People that seemed to want to help others were and are living a horror story. My heart goes out to the survivors and I Hope that others wh are still in will see the light. Keep up the great work Mike and Leah.

Wow, thats not an OT, it looks that the guy is really more stucked than ever, he must need to validate Mrs Miscavige to feel some kind of freedom getting rid of the barriers, whats next OT IX and OT X to OT XV

By the way, I saw dozens of much better success stories even in introductory courses.

Yep, it does sound like, “OK, I’m done now — can you please leave me alone for a while???” I’m surprised they let him off the Ship with that lackluster Success Story. And to use it as their promo piece? Pathetic. Maybe this is the only OT VIII they’ve made for many months now and they had no other Success Stories to publish.

Whenever I completed something and gained insight into something, I learned to make up a “success story” which satisfied the examiner but which had nothing to do with what I’d actually gotten. By avoiding giving up my new awareness, I avoided “completing” whatever the process was and, often, further things occurred to me which often greatly expanded the new level of awareness. After all, it was *my* cognition and if I didn’t wish to give it away and bring closure to it, that was my business. Often, what I’d realized expanded well beyond what the original release was.

And this was a top o’ the Bridge” success story? Sounded much more like “Damn! I don’t have a clue as to what to say!!!! I’d better come up with *something* or I’ll never get off this dreadful floating madhouse!” Just thinking about what the poor bastard paid for it makes me feel sad.

Nothing troubling me = ‘I have no charge on it, ” I have nothing on it ” yet I have seen many “OT’s” being angry, sneaky, dishonest and only looking out for themselves. The term that comes to mind is “disassociation” and probably extreme psychological compartmentalization. Not sure what kind of results the Freezoners get from upper levels but corporate scientology seems to routinely produce liars and people with “spiritual schizophrenia”

more blah… blah… blah.
success stories have become words that really say nothing.
I could write a better success story without having done any grades or OT levels.
I’m more OT than the person who wrote this “story”.

Jaye R, going OT doesn’t teach a person how to DO anything. Auditing doesn’t teach a person anything. What auditing is SUPPOSED to do could be described as “unlocking” your potential. For example, if a person always wanted to draw but had all kinds of considerations against taking a class, auditing could possibly handle the reasons for those considerations the person is holding which effectively bar the way for him to be TAUGHT. This could apply to any activity. Auditing is supposed to release one’s potential for what one wants/or needs to do (or doesn’t want or need to do, lol) A person will not know how to do anything he didn’t know how to do before but his confront on learning how to do it will be higher (or should be).

Aqua, you are incorrect. With OT 8 you ARE supposed to know TONS of stuff you didn’t know (remember) before. Like how to build interstellar FLT space ships and what not. Also, even on the grade you are supposed to GAIN certain, set new abilities. e.g. Grade 1 completions are supposed to be able to make their problems disappear.

Aqua, you don’t need to do OT 8 to listen to LRH tape that was played for all scientologists that gave he E.P. of the level. You can also look at the Grade chart for the Grades and read regular HCOB’s and books for new abilities he claimed for clear. I don’t understand you post.

I get it. Ok, then I can look up the EP of those OT levels online if I widh. I’ve never read the OT levels online. All I know about the OT levels so far is the Xenu story and the Clear Cognition which are ubiquitous. I didn’t know that the EPs for all the Grades and for Clear and for the OT levels are also online. In my post I meant to convey that I was unqualified to opine on the OT levels’ EPs one way or another due to having had no personal experience with them.

Important Quotes

If the org slumps during this transition period, don't engage in "fund raising"
or "selling postcards" or borrowing money. Just make more income with Scientology.
L Ron Hubbard From HCOPL URGENT ORG PROGRAMMING

"We own a tremendous amount of property. We own a tremendous amount of material and so forth, and it keeps growing.
But that’s not important. When buildings get important to us, for God sakes, some of you born revolutionists will you please blow up central headquarters".
L Ron Hubbard Lecture 31 Dec 1960

"Personal integrity is knowing what you know. What you know is what you know and to have the courage to know and say what you have observed".- LRH from Personal Integrity

"It is necessary to happiness of man, that he be mentally faithful to himself. Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists of professing to believe what he does not believe." Thomas Paine

“Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.” - Martin Luther King

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.” - Martin Luther King

“There comes a time when silence is betrayal.” - Martin Luther King Jr.

“Communication is the universal solvent” - L Ron Hubbard

“When men yield up the privilege of thinking, the last shadow of liberty quits the horizon.” Thomas Paine

"Never be afraid to raise your voice for honesty and truth and compassion against injustice and lying and greed. If people all over the world would do this, it would change the earth." William Faulkner

"The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis." Dalai Lama