Abramelin 2,499

To give you an idea what you can read about in that thread, I posted a summary on May 2010:

-1- Doggerland was a large stretch of land that became inhabited soon after the end of the last ice age, and became a good place for humans to live in, after a couple of thousand years (lets say from 8500 - 6100 BC)

-2- The culture of Doggerland was part of the Maglemosian culture (ca. 9500 BCE–6000) BCE) that existed in Northern Europe (from Britain to the Baltic)

-3- They were very probably seafarers

-4- The language spoken by the ancient Doggerlanders may have been (proto)-Finno-Ugric

-5- Doggerland got flooded and whiped from the map by a giant tsunami at around 6100 BC (the Storegga Slide). At 6100 BC -before it got hit by the Storegga tsunami - all that was left of Doggerland was an island the size of Ireland

-6- Those who survived the deluge (by being at a safe enough distance, or surfing the hell out of there by riding the tsunami, lol) fled to Scotland, England, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, Denmark, Norway and Sweden.

-7- There are scientific clues (linguistic and genetic) that Doggerland was some sort of original homeland to many peoples now living at the borders of the North Sea

-8- It's possible (is it??) that the ancient Picts were the last remnants of the Doggerlanders who had survived the deluge. Maybe a relation with the Fomorians in the oldest Irish legends

-9- No idea at all, but maybe Nehalennia was the name of an ancient seagoddess worshipped long before the existence of Celtic and Germanic tribes at the coasts of the North Sea and maybe they - Celts and Germans - took over the worship (using slightly altered names, like "Elen", "Holle", "Hel", "Hulda" and so on. Maybe these Celtic and Germanic tribes were nothing but the offspring of these Doggerlanders, and maybe a mix of these Doggerlanders with people who came later to north-western Europe

-10- The Germanic name "Hel" or Celtic "Hal" (and lots of similar names) are the names of the old North Sea. There are even pilgrim roads through Germany and the Netherlands that are called "Hellweg", literally, "Road to Hell", Hell being the old name of the North Sea before the Christians stole it.

Over time the name Hell became synonym for everything evil. Maybe "hell" was connected to the original name of Doggerland, in some proto -IE or proto Finno Ugric language.

-11- Doggerland may have been the place of origin of the 'white people' (god knows why, but some geneticists believe this to be true)

-12- The Oera Linda Book, a proven hoax btw, may have used ancient (and unknown Frisian or other) legends as a source. Btw, the Frisians are genetically distinct from other people living around the North Sea, and they were there, very probably millenia ago. And they builded clay/stone mounts to live on, whole villages were on those 'terps'.

-13- (I almost forgot) Some think that ancient seafarers (from the western Mediterreanean) depicted the remnants of Doggerland in petroglyphs in present Portugal ( Aboboreira/ "How the Sungod reached America") as a dangerous area in the North Sea, an area to avoid. But that must have been after Doggerland sank beneath the waves, and only left a dangerous sand bank ("Doggers Bank")

-14- A guess: are the present Frisians the descendants of those Doggerlanders??? And did their ancestors indeed sail the seas and oceans back then, and did they influence the cultures of the countries they landed upon/in (I dont know the right English word for it)??

-15- If Doggerland was the homeland of white people, and if it is true that they fled it when they saw it being submerged, what did they do?? Flee as far as they could? Tell other people they met on their voyages - being seafarers - about what had happened to them or their kin??

-16- Was Doggerland "Hyperborea"? If the surivors of that deluge fled to everywhere, on ship or on land, crossing Europe, they may have met the ancestors of Homer and told them their story. They had already established the amber routes across Europe...

-17- Were they the ones who started the Megalithic culture across western Europe? And if so, why??

-18- Hmmmm......maybe the Celts (of Ireland, Scotland and Wales) had a name for Doggerland ( a name they would much later use for Scandinavia and/or North West Germany), and that name would be "Lochlan" (and lots of different spellings).

-19- Stonehenge may have been a 'healing' culture, and may also have been a sacred burial ground for the Doggerlanders (- they found postholes dating from 8000 BC - )

-20- "Lochlan", an Irish Gaelic word for 'Land of Lakes' is an appropriate word for Doggerland, because scientists have found out Doggerland was a land of rivers, marshes, woodlands, and lakes.

-21- Lochlan/Doggerland may have been the place of origin of the Fo®morians and/or Cuithne, and/or Tuatha De Danann as described in ancient Irish legends

-22- At present the Scots have the following names for the North Sea :

Muir Lochlainn = North Sea

Mhuir a Tuath = North Sea

-23- Heh, maybe good ol'Tolkien dreamt about its destruction by a 'giant, silent Wave' (genetic memory, or something. Well, it earned him a lot of fame and money, right?

-24- Did ancient Native Americans travel to Doggerland along the Gulf Stream ( think "Red Paint People/Maritime Archaic")? Were they the 'dark haired, dark skinned' Fomorians? You tell me... (there are reports dating from Roman times up to just a couple of centuries ago of Inuit arriving in Scotland, Ireland and Holland in their canoes).

-25- There are those who say that Doggerland may have existed long after the Storegga Slide because it's inhabitants build dikes to protect them (Deruelle).

-26- Juergen Spanuth published a book (1953) about his theory that Atlantis was located in the North, and that Atlantis City was nothing but Helgoland. I don't agree with his theory, but he used finds on the bottom of the sea, west of Denmark.

-27- The Megalithic Culture of western Europe may have originated in Doggerland; these people built huge structures using tree trunks; these structures were destroyed by the Storegga Slide; after that they sailed out to the countries they already knew of, and started building using a more durable material: stone.

-28- Submerged megalithic structures have been found òn the bottom of the sea, off the coasts of Orkney.

-29- Doggerlanders were fishers and seafarers, and they may have sailed up the Elbe river into the center of Europe, and thus influencing much of the European culture with their stories and myths.

-29- Volcanoes erupting in the Eifel region of Germany, around 13,000 BC, may have forced people to flee to the north west of that region: Doggerland (and of course the countries near Doggerland. A large area was made uninhabitable for ages across a large stretch of Europe: northern France, west and north Germany. Food was poisened, water was undrinkable, people died.

-30- Long after Doggerland finally sank beneath the waves, people remembered it. They even gave offerings to the sea (the North Sea) in the form of stone age axes, beautifully and smooth tools that were seen as very special around that time.

-31- Stonehenge and similar structures in the other Brittish Isles and Ireland may have been built by the refugees of Doggerland, but now they used stone instead of oak trees that were abundant on Doggerland.

But not immediately: first they used these oaks (Tara Hill, Ireland, or the wooden structures that preceded Stonehenge).

-32- Most of these structures are connected with some death cult, and on the east coast of England they found the remnants of a wooden circular structure, and a scientist said it was made for the dead, and that the ancients may have ferried their dead across the North Sea, to an 'Island of the Dead'. Dogger Island, perhaps??

-33- The Doggerlanders were whalers (amongst other professions), they were not too afraid to sail the oceans. When they fled after their homeland got flooded, they went to the countries they had encountered during their voyages and hunting parties.

-34- All over the world, but especially in Scotland, the Brittish Isles in general, and Ireland (and Scandinavia) they found socalled 'cup-and-circle' petroglyphs.

Many of these circles are concentric circles with a 'tail' from center to outer circle, accompanied with 'cups'.

From what I gathered around the internet, these symbols could well represent an impact of a spiralling comet (creating a huge and spectacular image across the ancient heavens) that impacted into the north of the present North Sea (west of Norway), causing the Storegga Slide, and subsequently causing the huge tsumani that flooded the remnants of Doggerland.

Petroglyphs like that are found all over the earth, but most in N/W Europe.

-35- According to one theory, around 6100 BC a swarm of 'bolids' impacted on earth (Tollmann).

-36- More recent and circular labyrinths are - according to me - depictions of this same event. The 'entrance' of the labyrinth being equal to the tail of the spiralling comet (like the 'Hale-Bopp' comet) that destroyed land 6100 BC.

Labyrinths all over the earth have to do with 'death at the center', Death, another life, the afterlife, whatever comes after the maggots start eating our flesh. The center of the spiralling comet was of course the comet itself, the rock that eventually impacted into the North Sea, and caused the death of many thousands of people.

These labyrinths are rather similar all over the earth, but in the Americas that socalled 'entrance' is always at the top of the labyrinth, while in Europe and India that entrance is at the bottom. I think that is caused by where the people watching that heavenly event were located on earth.

-37- I think I found a repesentation ( petroglyphs in Wales) of a spiralling comet impacting into the North Sea.... wishfull thinking, no doubt.

The Stregga Slide - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storegga_Slide - triggered the super tsunami and evidence of it can be found up to 50 miles inland all around the North Sea. Taking into account the lower sea level back then the wave is estimated to have been over 500 foot high and would have devastated any civilization existing there.

Not even a pyramid would survive that monster of a wave so if Atlantis was there it will be very hard to find evidence.

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Rocketgirl33 11

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People who don't know how to weep with their whole heart, don't know how to laugh either.

I love this! I wanna see how much more they find, what all they find, but most of all, where are the artifacts they have found already? I think that for every one thing we know about our planet there are a thousand we don't know. This is cool as ice and i want to keep up with this. I thought I heard that within the next couple of months they were going to to press and state this as true fact? Or I have no idea what it was I heard.

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docyabut2 2,875

I guess what one has to asked if it was tumusis what would have cause it and how it would relate to some other cultures that were around, that experienced the same event,or was it just abandoned from being flooded by the gradually rising sea levels, after the last ice age.

Edited July 4, 2012 by docyabut2

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csspwns 143

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"Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day; give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish."

I guess what one has to asked if it was tumusis what would have cause it and how it would relate to some other cultures that were around, that experienced the same event,or was it just abandoned from being flooded by the gradually rising sea levels, after the last ice age.

Abramelin 2,499

I guess what one has to asked if it was tumusis what would have cause it and how it would relate to some other cultures that were around, that experienced the same event,or was it just abandoned from being flooded by the gradually rising sea levels, after the last ice age.

If you read that thread about Doggerland I linked to, then you'd know there really was a tsunami. It was caused by probably several factors.

First: a huge layer - the size of iceland and maybe a mile thick or more - of sediment on the bottom of the sea, west of Norway, had become unstable. At some point it started moving and caused a tsunami that lasted up to 3 days max. They have found traces of the tsunami in Scotland and other countries around the North Sea.

What caused the instability? Maybe just its weight, maybe an earthquake, or an impacting comet, maybe it had something to do with the catastrophic emptying of Lake Agassiz in North America.

The land had already been sinking because of post-glacial isostatic rebound/adjustment: the Scandinavian ice cap was gone, Scandinavia and Scotland started rising because the weight was gone, and everything south started sinking,

Add to that that the sea level rose because of the melting ice and you have 3 reasons why Doggerland got flooded.

They have found similar artifacts from Scotland to Denmark and also on the bottom of the North Sea, so most probably people fled from Doggerland to the countries surrounding the new North Sea.

The tsunami happened around 6150 BC, and they know by radiocarbon dating organic material from for instance the Dogger Bank and other banks (peat, seeds, and so on). After that only Dogger Island was left, but that finally submerged around 5000 BC.

And anyone thinking about "Atlantis" should think again: the dates are wrong, the location is wrong, the culture was not the culture Plato described: it was very 'primitive'.

The Stregga Slide - http://en.wikipedia..../Storegga_Slide - triggered the super tsunami and evidence of it can be found up to 50 miles inland all around the North Sea. Taking into account the lower sea level back then the wave is estimated to have been over 500 foot high and would have devastated any civilization existing there.

Not even a pyramid would survive that monster of a wave so if Atlantis was there it will be very hard to find evidence.

Nothing like "Atlantis" at all.

And the news is so old, it needs a fresh haircut, lol.

Perhaps it is because it's summertime, and they dug up something spectacular. They will 'find' the Loch Ness monster again soon..

Doggerland wasn't an island like Atlantis, but after the tsunami only an island, "Dogger Island", remained (the future Dogger Bank). Still quite large back then (about the size of Ireland), but it kept slowly and steadily sinking.

It would have been more an 'Island of the Dead' (like many traditions around the North Sea hint at), a land of fog and mist (cold and warm sea currents meeting), a Niflheim, a 'Hell'.

I also assumed the Strait of Dover was much narrower 8000 years ago, and the chalk rocks of Dover and Calais (but much closer to eachother) may have been the origin of the true 'Pillars of Hercules'.

I notice you think that OLB is hoax. So far in my research (which started after you told me about it last month) I didnt find anything that could it be hoaxexcept lingustic debate.

When do think it was created?

The summary was from before the OLB thread even started, and I just copied and pasted it here.

The linguistic debate - even though it's not really my thing - it IS important.

I will try to make an analogy: suppose they find an 'ancient' Egyptian papyrus about some long lost civilization of thousands of years before pharaonic times.

But the language used appears to be very close to modern Coptic. However, the papayrus is written in hieroglyphs, but 'more primitive' ones.

What would you think?

.==

I think the OLB was created in the 19th century, using all the available Latin, Greek and Frisian sources (= legends. myths and ancient accounts). It was put on paper using an 'Old 'Frisianized' form of 19th century Dutch.

I can read that '2600 years' old language. As soon as I got accostumed to the language, I could translate the text. And all I needed was my knowledge of Medieval Dutch I learned in highschool, and occasionally with the help of an Old Frisian dictionary (>> Old Frisian is the Frisian used in the 13th century, medieval times).

The syntax used in the Oera Linda Book (OLB) is modern.

.

Edited July 7, 2012 by Abramelin

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Big Bad Voodoo 1,340

I think the OLB was created in the 19th century, using all the available Latin, Greek and Frisian sources (= legends. myths and ancient accounts). It was put on paper using an 'Old 'Frisianized' form of 19th century Dutch.

I can read that '2600 years' old language. As soon as I got accostumed to the language, I could translate the text. And all I needed was my knowledge of Medieval Dutch I learned in highschool, and occasionally with the help of an Old Frisian dictionary (>> Old Frisian is the Frisian used in the 13th century, medieval times).

The syntax used in the Oera Linda Book (OLB) is modern.

I didnt research enough to even start debate. Its interesting for sure. Soon I will be ready to join you in thread about it.