That said, my BROWSER is able to use WI-FI for accessing pages. Then I tried to use my MSN Mobile and I'm struggling with DATA SERVICES UNAVAILABLE - but my WIRELESS is enabled and I'm expecting to device use this active connection for any application.

Is this not covered?

If not, does not make any sense having WI-FI enabled if I need to contract a DATA PLAN for using applications instead of using hot-spots to use it whenever I got a free-signal available.

I just got my Torch yesterday from Costco. There's been a lot on this forum talking about exactly this problem - losing BIS after turning on WIFI. After reading one long thread where the last writer said he had unchecked the APN box in Advanced Settings and hadn't had this problem for several days, I decided to try this.

However, the first thing I did with my new Torch is install the newest OS update thru Blackberry Desktop, so I don't know if that also is a positive factor.

I then unchecked the APN box, connected my Torch to my WIFI network, downloaded a couple of Audible audiobooks to the Torch. After using it for about 20 minutes, I then turned off the WIFI on the Torch, and went into the Browser again to see if it could connect to the Web. IT DID!

So I'm crossing my fingers that turning off APN prevented the problem. Perhaps you should try unchecking that box, and see if data services start working.

Let the forum know if this worked. It's a lot easier than wiping the Torch, as many seem to have done. The question remains as to whether or not APN is needed for something. I haven't a clue on that, but so far, so good.

I want to use all connectivity options of the PHONE without using a DATA SERVICE PLAN... since I have the WI-FI feature.

That said, once I have this option I believe that is possible to use anything on the phone that requires internet without any restriction. Is this not true?

For instance: if you turn off all data service from your IPHONE, and you have WI-FI enabled ... you can use SKYPE, MEEBO, BROWSER, and so on.

Now you understand what am I trying to do?

I just want to use the WI-FI option with the applications available.

Turning off the option that you said.. does not work either.

Really strange though

I think you have some preconceived notions due to your use of an iPhone so lets get those facts out first so you can see the difference:

The iPhone is nothing more than an iTouch with phone capabilities added in. You can remove the SIM card and still use the device via the WiFi capabilities built in. I know several people who do this without issue. The applications built into the iPhone and iTouch are designed this way.

The Blackberry is a phone and messaging device that has added WiFi capabilities, the exact opposite of the iPhone. As such, the majority of the applications are designed to use the data services first.

OK, so what can you do? Well you must use a browser that can connect via WiFi and access all the functions through the browser. The links on the Blackberry home screen typically don't route through the browser but are stand alone applications that are routed through the application and use data services. You can do almost everything, but you must be using the browser and know the links to connect to the proper websites to accomplish the tasks.

BTW, both ATT and RIM love when you do this as they get to collect money for data services, but when you use WiFi they make money without any cost involved on their part.

I can use BBm, Facecrack, get email, surf, use MSN, etc. while on my home wifi. I am with Telus (Canada) so I don't know if that is the difference or not. My house has NO cell signal so it is the only way to use it. Does the US carriers lock this down or something ? The only thing I couldn't set up via wifi was my email but when I got service and hooked it up, I got email coming through while chatting on msn and browsing facecrack at my house, hooked solely to wifi...

I want to use all connectivity options of the PHONE without using a DATA SERVICE PLAN... since I have the WI-FI feature.

That said, once I have this option I believe that is possible to use anything on the phone that requires internet without any restriction. Is this not true?

For instance: if you turn off all data service from your IPHONE, and you have WI-FI enabled ... you can use SKYPE, MEEBO, BROWSER, and so on.

Now you understand what am I trying to do?

I just want to use the WI-FI option with the applications available.

Turning off the option that you said.. does not work either.

Really strange though

Bad news is a data plan is required for all smartphones. If this is an att branded Torch, it will be picked up by a network scan eventually and a data plan will be added to your account. BB services will require a BB data plan requardless of using wifi or the mobile network as RIM servers are used in both cases.

Bad news is a data plan is required for all smartphones. If this is an att branded Torch, it will be picked up by a network scan eventually and a data plan will be added to your account. BB services will require a BB data plan requardless of using wifi or the mobile network as RIM servers are used in both cases.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

That's correct. I thought he was stating that he could not just get his wifi to work in his house. My sister's husband took my old 9700 and he does not have data hooked up so it will connect to the home wifi but it is grey and will not actually connect to anything. You need BIS of some sorts and THEN it will work in wifi spots

Bad news is a data plan is required for all smartphones. If this is an att branded Torch, it will be picked up by a network scan eventually and a data plan will be added to your account. BB services will require a BB data plan requardless of using wifi or the mobile network as RIM servers are used in both cases.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

That isn't 100% accurate shansmi. It is true that if you purchase the phone through ATT and sign a new contract that you must also purchase data services. However, if you purchase a smartphone and pay full price, ATT cannot add services other than what you are willing to pay for. I am currently paying for phone and text on my daughter's Blackberry Curve 8520 and while ATT doesn't like it, we didn't purchase the phone through them and we control what features are turned off and on, not the carrier. My daughter can use WiFi and connect through the internet without issue and there is nothing that ATT can do about it, much as they would like to.

Just got an unlocked Torch to replace my much loved ipaq 6955. I have no data plan (home wifi) as gmail via text works great for me and I spend a lot of time outside of North America so all I need is a wifi device and decent cell phone.
Is there a way to update my Blackberry software (OS6) without a data plan.

Comments on Torch:
no skype
Lots of dropped calls and poor signal reception (and often goes to SOS) - my ipaq worked in every room in my house - the torch doesn't. Windows Mobile 5 delivered a faster browser. I know Blackberry is a specific office tool - the friend that sold it to me didn't like it - I don't either and have now shipped my broken ipaq to Texas in hopes of getting it fixed. Torch good points: It feels solid and looks great but I was looking for a great phone and wifi tool - I have wifi at both places I live and work.

i got my 9800 last week rogers unlocked im using it on another network...
first the browser was the only thing working on wifi, msn and fb werent workin..
yesterday i updated it and now the browser stopped working :s
the BB service here costs 9$/week is there a trick to use at least the browser over wifi