If we had a real GM we'd cut all the unnecessary fat off the team and get 2-3 big name free agents on the o line or defense, then draft a #2 WR, DE with a high ceiling, and DB/OL depth in this upcoming draft. Hopefully MM can have a goods offseason.

I'd take a calm approach. As I've said, I don't think any one of our defenders is worth over $7 million a year other than Suh. Release anyone who wants that money, and yes, even if it's Houston. Now in free agency I have 5 guys really on my radar. Daryl Smith, Derek Cox, Jairus Byrd, that Bills guard, and bring in Jake Long to see what he has left in him, which I believe it a lot. Signing two of those guys would be enormous for the team and I belIeve would mean a winning season. In the draft, BPA throughout.

And WJB, though I rarely display my disappointment, I'm also extremely angry about how this team is being run underachieves so much, but unlike you the guy I think is more responsible for it than MM is Linehan.

_________________

January 18th, 2013, 10:54 am

wjb21ndtown

Re: Lions 2013 Cap Situation - Who is getting paid what

Shotty wrote:

If we had a real GM we'd cut all the unnecessary fat off the team and get 2-3 big name free agents on the o line or defense, then draft a #2 WR, DE with a high ceiling, and DB/OL depth in this upcoming draft. Hopefully MM can have a goods offseason.

I'd take a calm approach. As I've said, I don't think any one of our defenders is worth over $7 million a year other than Suh. Release anyone who wants that money, and yes, even if it's Houston. Now in free agency I have 5 guys really on my radar. Daryl Smith, Derek Cox, Jairus Byrd, that Bills guard, and bring in Jake Long to see what he has left in him, which I believe it a lot. Signing two of those guys would be enormous for the team and I belIeve would mean a winning season. In the draft, BPA throughout.

And WJB, though I rarely display my disappointment, I'm also extremely angry about how this team is being run underachieves so much, but unlike you the guy I think is more responsible for it than MM is Linehan.

I can't blame Linehan, when Schwartz has so much control over so much of the game. Those decisions to NOT go into the hurry up with under 5 minutes left, down by two scores, Schwartz's decision. Schwartz also says who plays and who doesn't (Titus and Logan...), and Schwartz controls the conservatism of the game plan too. I can't fault Linehan after that. Let your OC be the OC, and if he sucks, can him. Don't control his area of expertise, and throw him under the bus when it doesn't work out.

January 18th, 2013, 1:51 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Lions 2013 Cap Situation - Who is getting paid what

thelomasbrowns wrote:

If you look at it, our major problems still stem from the draft pre-rookie wage scale. I still think they should offer some kind of 'cap amnesty' to teams in this situation because contracts like Suh's and Staff's were unavoidable at the time. Suh is a great player and all, but his cap hit makes me physically ill.

I don't think so tlbs...

Sure, Stafford's deal is/was big, but the bigger issue is all of the "restructuring" that's been done to kick the can down the road. His deal was something like 7 years $72 million. That's huge money, but it only averages $10 mill per, and Stafford has earned every penny of that. However, he's now due $40 + million in the next two seasons, and most of it is now guaranteed. It was prior unguaranteed salary that Mayhew pushed back and made guaranteed, for what reason I don't know, because he never used that money wisely.

Why do you think we're the only team in the league that has an issue with it?

If we had a real GM we'd cut all the unnecessary fat off the team and get 2-3 big name free agents on the o line or defense, then draft a #2 WR, DE with a high ceiling, and DB/OL depth in this upcoming draft. Hopefully MM can have a goods offseason.

I'd take a calm approach. As I've said, I don't think any one of our defenders is worth over $7 million a year other than Suh. Release anyone who wants that money, and yes, even if it's Houston. Now in free agency I have 5 guys really on my radar. Daryl Smith, Derek Cox, Jairus Byrd, that Bills guard, and bring in Jake Long to see what he has left in him, which I believe it a lot. Signing two of those guys would be enormous for the team and I belIeve would mean a winning season. In the draft, BPA throughout.

And WJB, though I rarely display my disappointment, I'm also extremely angry about how this team is being run underachieves so much, but unlike you the guy I think is more responsible for it than MM is Linehan.

I can't blame Linehan, when Schwartz has so much control over so much of the game. Those decisions to NOT go into the hurry up with under 5 minutes left, down by two scores, Schwartz's decision. Schwartz also says who plays and who doesn't (Titus and Logan...), and Schwartz controls the conservatism of the game plan too. I can't fault Linehan after that. Let your OC be the OC, and if he sucks, can him. Don't control his area of expertise, and throw him under the bus when it doesn't work out.

Great point, I think this problem is very common. Defensive coaches many times have issues with being aggressive on offense. When you spend your whole career stopping opposing offenses I think it forces you to only see your own offense from a defensive point of view and causes you to only see everything that could go wrong. It makes them gun shy and I'm sure frustrates the hell out of the OC. Look at what happened with John Fox and the Broncos, a smart coach would defer to the expert on his staff. Schwartz seems like the type to have to much pride to let someone else make the tough call even if it's not his expertise.

January 18th, 2013, 3:37 pm

thelomasbrowns

Pro Bowl Player

Joined: August 24th, 2010, 9:54 pmPosts: 2482

Re: Lions 2013 Cap Situation - Who is getting paid what

wjb21ndtown wrote:

thelomasbrowns wrote:

If you look at it, our major problems still stem from the draft pre-rookie wage scale. I still think they should offer some kind of 'cap amnesty' to teams in this situation because contracts like Suh's and Staff's were unavoidable at the time. Suh is a great player and all, but his cap hit makes me physically ill.

I don't think so tlbs...

Sure, Stafford's deal is/was big, but the bigger issue is all of the "restructuring" that's been done to kick the can down the road. His deal was something like 7 years $72 million. That's huge money, but it only averages $10 mill per, and Stafford has earned every penny of that. However, he's now due $40 + million in the next two seasons, and most of it is now guaranteed. It was prior unguaranteed salary that Mayhew pushed back and made guaranteed, for what reason I don't know, because he never used that money wisely.

Why do you think we're the only team in the league that has an issue with it?

Looking at draft position, we were the worst team year-in-year out (with one exception) in the final years before the rookie salary cap. The Rams were bad too, but they already cut one of their top picks (Jason Smith) and re-signed the other (Chris Long). Chiefs were right there as well, but their top picks have pretty much been flops, and/or don't make up the core of their team the way our high picks do.

_________________Jim Caldwell, on whether Jim Harbaugh is stealing his thunder: "Me? I don't have any thunder."

January 18th, 2013, 4:21 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Lions 2013 Cap Situation - Who is getting paid what

thelomasbrowns wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

thelomasbrowns wrote:

If you look at it, our major problems still stem from the draft pre-rookie wage scale. I still think they should offer some kind of 'cap amnesty' to teams in this situation because contracts like Suh's and Staff's were unavoidable at the time. Suh is a great player and all, but his cap hit makes me physically ill.

I don't think so tlbs...

Sure, Stafford's deal is/was big, but the bigger issue is all of the "restructuring" that's been done to kick the can down the road. His deal was something like 7 years $72 million. That's huge money, but it only averages $10 mill per, and Stafford has earned every penny of that. However, he's now due $40 + million in the next two seasons, and most of it is now guaranteed. It was prior unguaranteed salary that Mayhew pushed back and made guaranteed, for what reason I don't know, because he never used that money wisely.

Why do you think we're the only team in the league that has an issue with it?

Looking at draft position, we were the worst team year-in-year out (with one exception) in the final years before the rookie salary cap. The Rams were bad too, but they already cut one of their top picks (Jason Smith) and re-signed the other (Chris Long). Chiefs were right there as well, but their top picks have pretty much been flops, and/or don't make up the core of their team the way our high picks do.

CJ earns his paycheck, Stafford's deal was valued at $10 mill per and he earns that, Suh earns his paycheck as well. Those are our top picks that you claim are "killing" this team.

I don't know how you can make that claim. All of those guys are "stars" that would be making at least what they're making, if not more under their next deal. We may not be getting the "cheap labor" that the new rookie payscale brings, but we certainly didn't get "screwed" by the old means of signing rookies.

The real issue on this team is Dom, Nate, Corey, KVB, etc... Guys that DON'T earn their paychecks week in and week out.

January 18th, 2013, 4:31 pm

sweetd20

Rookie Player of the Year

Joined: October 13th, 2005, 9:03 amPosts: 2399

Re: Lions 2013 Cap Situation - Who is getting paid what

Shotty wrote:

If we had a real GM we'd cut all the unnecessary fat off the team and get 2-3 big name free agents on the o line or defense, then draft a #2 WR, DE with a high ceiling, and DB/OL depth in this upcoming draft. Hopefully MM can have a goods offseason.

I'd take a calm approach. As I've said, I don't think any one of our defenders is worth over $7 million a year other than Suh. Release anyone who wants that money, and yes, even if it's Houston. Now in free agency I have 5 guys really on my radar. Daryl Smith, Derek Cox, Jairus Byrd, that Bills guard, and bring in Jake Long to see what he has left in him, which I believe it a lot. Signing two of those guys would be enormous for the team and I belIeve would mean a winning season. In the draft, BPA throughout.

And WJB, though I rarely display my disappointment, I'm also extremely angry about how this team is being run underachieves so much, but unlike you the guy I think is more responsible for it than MM is Linehan.

If the Lions had a real GM that spent money like the way you are suggesting the team would never go anywhere. The Lions already have big contracts in young players (Stafford, CJ, and Suh) and with the size of their deals the Lions as an organization can't handle anymore big contracts and build a team that can be real contenders. Not only can that not sign any big money FAs they can't over spend to keep guys like Houston, Delmas, Avril, Durant, or Levy. On top of that I think they have to consider moving Suh after next season. If he ends up being the greatest DT to ever play the game they still as a team can't have a DT that will likely fetch a contract similar if not greater than what Haynesworth signed. Once they inked CJ's deal they pretty much left themselves with Stafford and CJ as the big money guys and thhe rest of the team is going to have to be made up of rookie studs, good to really good veterans, and young guys trying to get that big paycheck.

The days of paying big money to FAs unless it's to keep a stud QB or a talent like CJ are just about gone if a team wants to contend long term. How many teams that have spent heavy in FA lately have won Super Bowls and/or been perennial contenders? Most recently how did the Eagles make out? How did signing Mario Williams pan out for the Bills? I've never been a fan of fhe Steelers or Patriots but they look at their teams and ask where are they going to be on a couple years. Which is why they let players walk or trade them if the money they would have to pay them doesn't match what they feel they are going to get in return or they feel they can get equal production at a cheaper price.

January 18th, 2013, 5:51 pm

Shotty

Millen Draft Pick - Epic Bust

Joined: July 3rd, 2012, 2:06 amPosts: 717

Re: Lions 2013 Cap Situation - Who is getting paid what

sweetd20 wrote:

Shotty wrote:

If we had a real GM we'd cut all the unnecessary fat off the team and get 2-3 big name free agents on the o line or defense, then draft a #2 WR, DE with a high ceiling, and DB/OL depth in this upcoming draft. Hopefully MM can have a goods offseason.

I'd take a calm approach. As I've said, I don't think any one of our defenders is worth over $7 million a year other than Suh. Release anyone who wants that money, and yes, even if it's Houston. Now in free agency I have 5 guys really on my radar. Daryl Smith, Derek Cox, Jairus Byrd, that Bills guard, and bring in Jake Long to see what he has left in him, which I believe it a lot. Signing two of those guys would be enormous for the team and I belIeve would mean a winning season. In the draft, BPA throughout.

And WJB, though I rarely display my disappointment, I'm also extremely angry about how this team is being run underachieves so much, but unlike you the guy I think is more responsible for it than MM is Linehan.

If the Lions had a real GM that spent money like the way you are suggesting the team would never go anywhere. The Lions already have big contracts in young players (Stafford, CJ, and Suh) and with the size of their deals the Lions as an organization can't handle anymore big contracts and build a team that can be real contenders. Not only can that not sign any big money FAs they can't over spend to keep guys like Houston, Delmas, Avril, Durant, or Levy. On top of that I think they have to consider moving Suh after next season. If he ends up being the greatest DT to ever play the game they still as a team can't have a DT that will likely fetch a contract similar if not greater than what Haynesworth signed. Once they inked CJ's deal they pretty much left themselves with Stafford and CJ as the big money guys and thhe rest of the team is going to have to be made up of rookie studs, good to really good veterans, and young guys trying to get that big paycheck.

The days of paying big money to FAs unless it's to keep a stud QB or a talent like CJ are just about gone if a team wants to contend long term. How many teams that have spent heavy in FA lately have won Super Bowls and/or been perennial contenders? Most recently how did the Eagles make out? How did signing Mario Williams pan out for the Bills? I've never been a fan of fhe Steelers or Patriots but they look at their teams and ask where are they going to be on a couple years. Which is why they let players walk or trade them if the money they would have to pay them doesn't match what they feel they are going to get in return or they feel they can get equal production at a cheaper price.

Once Suh/Staff get locked up, I say Suh/Staff/CJ take up 42-45% of the cap space. That leaves about 68 million for the rest. Now the ONLY guy on the team right now that will in all likelihood be resigned in the future are Nick Fairley. Take away $15 mill for depth players cheap players from the draft and special teams, and thats $55 million, and about a $3 million average for the 18 other starters. I'd say we're in good hands to get at least one big FA every 2-3 years.

_________________

January 18th, 2013, 7:58 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Lions 2013 Cap Situation - Who is getting paid what

IMO 1)you can't have three guys eating up that much space, 2) Stafford hasn't earned it, neither has Suh. The only real superstar we have on this team is Calvin. and 3) If you did that you're only leaving $1.7 million dollars per player for the rest of your guys... Ok, you're going to have 5-6 $700k guys, but that means you can only have 5-6 $3 million dollar guys... You really think that's enough to "spread the wealth" and sign legit talent everywhere else?

The problem with this team is, the guys getting the big salaries aren't earning their paychecks... If Suh was giving us 10+ sacks at the DT spot, and NOT committing bone head penalties, and if Staff had a 90+ Qb rating, was good on third downs, read the blitz, didn't get hurt, looked off DBs, sold the playaction, etc., he would earn his salary. However, currently those are all things he's NOT good at. He has a LOOONNNGGGG way to go before he earns the near $20 million per year he's making.