An American Perspective

It is time we finally have a discussion about getting rid of minimum wage laws. With each increase in minimum wage, it is becoming harder and harder for small businesses to start up and grow, and is creating a generation of kids with no work history.

Minimum wage laws are a jewel of the left and labor unions. To the average person it seems like a decent idea, force employers to pay at least $7.85 per hour. That number only represents $16,328 a year. Surely anyone working deserves

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Great information! I’ve been looking for something like this for a while now. Thanks!

Guest

Good point made in the second-to-last paragraph. I believe welfare recipients are one reason the minimum wage is so low.

Me

What a load of bull

Crcash3

FULL EMPLOYMENT PLAN – steal this idea

PREMISE – MAJORITY OF WORLD CLASS ECONOMISTS SAY

*US ECONOMY HAS BEEN 70% CONSUMER SPENDING
*CONSUMER SPENDING WILL NOT COME BACK BECAUSE NEITHER tax cuts, nor government spending nor monetary easing nor low interest rates will cause people or businesses to spend. They will save because they lost a terrific amount in the crash of 2008 ( witness Japan and Great Depress)

THEREFORE WE WILL NOT REDUCE 10% UNEMPLOYMENT AND HOUSING SLUMP WILL CONTINUE

unless we implement A NEW SOLUTION – AMERICANS ARE COMPETITORS AND WE NEED TO COMPETE

NEW SOLUTION
INDUCE CORPORATIONS TO COME HOME AND REOPEN THEIR FACTORIES IN THE US, INSTEAD OF CHINA, BRAZIL, ETC

HOW?
AMERICAN PEOPLE WILL WORK FOR A WAGE THAT IS COMPETIVE WITH THE ASIAN/BRAZILIAN WORKER
BUT-
INSTEAD OF FORCING BUSINESSES TO SUBSIDE SALARIES THROUGH A MIN. WAGE LAW, THE GOVERNMENT WILL SUBSIDIZE WAGES. THE BUDGET DEFICIT WILL BE REDUCED BECAUSE

1. BUSINESSES WILL COME BACK TO US IN DROVES AND LOCATE PLANTS HERE
2. FULL EMPLOYMENT
3. ELIMINATION OF UNEMPLOYMENT INSUR. CHECKS TO COMPENSATE FOR WAGE SUBSIDIES-SUBSIDIZE THE UNEMPLOYED TO TAKE THE LOWER PAYING JOBS
3. COMPETITIVE PRICES AND WAGE

4. NCREASED CORPORATE CAPTIAL GAINS TAXES

5. RAGINGINLY HIGH STOCK MARKET, GENERATING MORE CAPITAL AND CAUSING BUSINESSES TO INVEST IN PLANT AND EQUIPMENT INSTEAD OF THE CARRY TRADE

http://www.talkofliberty.com/ Talk of Liberty

Businesses would rather operate in friendly environments with low taxes and low regulations. That is it.

Allowing companies to hire who they want and pay what they can justify is key to getting businesses back. Americans make thousands more than poor countries, because we are worth it, when our value is not justified we are not employed.

We lose more jobs to robots than any other country, should robots be banned. Farm jobs are down 99% because of automation, is this a bad thing? We need to do more with less, that is how you make more.

david

Then why do California and New York have the most economic activity? people love to say that businesses like low taxes and regulation but the fact of the matter is it’s the more regulated states, and the higher tax burden states, that have the most economic activity.

http://www.talkofliberty.com/ Talk of Liberty

It is no mistake that to tax heavily and have massive regulations, you must first have a thriving economy, then you can squeeze out the life of it.

The United States grew from those two states the most significantly with a strong industrial base, and some of the highest quality Ivy League Schools. Those were established in some cases hundreds of years ago, and have supported the area in spite of taxes and regulations.

We can have a complete free market zone in the middle of the desert, however natural resources, vicinity to trading partners, and many other factors are more important.

The old saying, location location location is just as true in your example.

TommyF

Isn’t California going bankrupt? That sure is an awesome economy.

Somebody

your article states most people make above minimum wage. this may be true. however if minimum wage is $7.00 an hour and your “generous” boss gives you $7.15 an hour this is not doing you a huge favor, yet its still technically above minimum wage. are you advocating an ever sharper class division than already exists?

without a minumum wage in place whats to keep employers from paying less than a dollar an hour? whats to keep any standards in place? people who make minumum wage dont nessarily qualify for governtment “goodies” either. nor are they always teenagers. if youve been in a truely
financially desperate place, not having a livable wage is beyond humilating and amounts to a life barely above consensual slavery or fuedalism. take notice, do your homework on the working poor.

http://profiles.google.com/williamdavidtipton wm tipton

“however if minimum wage is $7.00 an hour and your “generous” boss gives
you $7.15 an hour this is not doing you a huge favor, yet its still
technically above minimum wage”
=============
Something that is VERY common as that is exactly what the huge corp that my wife works for does….pay just enough to be ‘above’ minimum wage….by about a dime or so.

This author clearly is out of touch with reality and my guess is was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and has lived off daddies money his whole life so far.
If he ever has to survive in the REAL world of minimum wage then maybe he’ll have an opinion worth reading.

http://www.talkofliberty.com/ Talk of Liberty

No silver spoon my friend, my father never worked a day in my life, on disability checks. Single mother working two jobs to have a Christmas. I do not talk about my lack of anything as a rational for something that is wrong.

Why your wife only has the value of a dime over minimum wage is beyond me. Has she ever done anything to better herself, to advance herself, to earn more? Is it better that she be laid off and outsourced the job to China instead, does that help you out economically?

That is the real world, being the least skilled worker in this country doesn’t pay, and should not pay out of pitty. Business doesn’t care that your wife deserves more, the kid in India with an MBA willing to do it at the same price is what sets a market rate. I do not ignore the economic facts of reality, it is you sir who does.

Vanillafirefly

So who will do the unskilled job that pay lower wages if everyone has big degrees and has “bettered” themselves? Are you trying to tell us that because some people for what ever reason are, for lack of a better term, unskilled that they should not earn at least enough to survive? What happens when we become the nation of people who all have MBA’s and are willing to do whatever job for pennies an hour?? That’s assuming that we bcome a nation where collegiate education becomes affordable for everyone. We will always need people to clean public facilities and work in restaurants. Are you saying that these people should have to work 5 or 6 jobs just to make ends meet in a country where it costs so much to live and receive healthcare? Are you saying that those people are all ready on the dole and are accounted for?? Very dismal picture you paint. I don’t think you have a full grip on the bigger picture here.

http://www.talkofliberty.com/ Talk of Liberty

Low paying jobs are the beginning points of most careers, unskilled become skilled once they are given the chance. Having lower minimum wage allows for those unskilled to become skilled, no we do not need everyone to have an MBA, just a basic work ethic.

david

You’re full of shit, as someone who’s run small businesses it’s not the minimum wage that’s a problem it’s the difficulty in finding workers who are high quality who were willing to work with me because I couldn’t provide health insurance. If you really wanted to help small businesses you would be opposed to moves like this that would help walmart to crush us faster, and you would instead be about universal healthcare, and moving the tax burden to the people who could afford it.

http://www.talkofliberty.com/ Talk of Liberty

Explain to me how Walmart providing a better income and benefits is bad for the worker. Walmart pays more than minimum wage, and they provide benefits, that you just can’t offer.

As for Universal Healthcare. We basically already have it. WIC, and Medicare cover those who make the least, and in my eyes a massive failure.

Jonathan Baez

getting rid of minimum wage is ludacris! how can you expect to survive on ten cents an hour if you cant live on ten dollars an hour?. want the US to come back? lets stop giving billions to countries that support terrorism, outlaw job outsourcing or make it very, very costly for the company. abolish the right to work state so unions can thrive, tax the wealthy heavily why should the ceo make a billion a year for playing golf etc. when i work for a living? America was founded by the principle of government for the people, by the people NOT the corporation

http://www.talkofliberty.com/ Talk of Liberty

Would you work for 10 cents an hour? I wouldn’t work for minimum wage either. It is a farce. Get rid of welfare, and I could accept leaving the minimum wage in place, but not both.

http://www.talkofliberty.com/ Talk of Liberty

This article merely shows one aspect of thousands in which the government destroys upward mobility. I am not saying the first thing I would do as president is get rid of minimum wage, but it merely points out how foolish it is. The minimum wage laws are put in place for politicians to point to as if they are helping. There would be no need for minimum wage laws if the government didn’t destroy the value of the working mans money on a daily basis.

Gunge

You and other “free market at all costs” advocates have a very simplistic view of the economy. First of all, any business that can’t afford to pay its workers a decent minimum wage shouldn’t be in business to begin with. Already the real buying power of the minimum wage when adjusted for inflation is the lowest it’s been in thirty years and in that period overall wages for the vast majority of workers has stagnated while the earnings of those at the top has skyrocketed.
The middle class’ buying power is what drives a strong economy, so the idea that simply reducing taxes on the wealthy will create jobs is a myth. Why would companies hire when there are fewer customers who can afford their products? If those at the top create jobs, why haven’t we seen a boom in job creation now that taxes are at their lowest rate in years and wages are at historic lows.

http://www.talkofliberty.com/ Talk of Liberty

You suggest a company that can’t afford minimum wage shouldn’t be in business? Consider a Start Up, should someone be willing to try and start a business and get help with those benefiting in hundreds of ways long term? You are worried about Walmart, I am not, I am worried about the small company that can’t afford to keep up with Walmart. Large companies love minimum wage since it makes entry into their businesses impossible, but you seem ok with that.

Secondly, the fact that government gives a welfare check for many different programs for anyone making close to minimum wage. At least they can work, and gain skills. This article does not suggest gutting government welfare, though that would be ideal at some point. You can’t have it both ways in the argument, you make 7 an hour and collect from uncle Sam. Even if you were paid 3 dollars an hour you could still collect section 8 housing, but at least you have a job, that is far better and leads to upward mobility, and gives a small start up a chance to make it.

Gunge

“You suggest that a company that can’t afford minimum wage shouldn’t be in business?

Hell, yeah that’s what I’m suggesting. If you can’t afford the ante, you can’t play. If a startup is successful paying their entry level workers sub-minimum wages, what’s their incentive to ever pay more than that? And if training is required, that’s the cost of doing business. Part of our fine Capitalist system dictates that it takes CAPITAL to launch a business. And if your startup idea is so wonderful, you should have no problem finding investors.

Gunge

PS: “Large companies love the minimum wage”

Really?? Then why do corporations like Wal-Mart (which employ the highest % of minimum wage workers) hire lobbyists to oppose any efforts to raise it?:http://valleypost.org/node/706

CJane

It’s only failure is to not include all of us which would make those ‘fat greedy capitalists’ that run the health insurance industry have to go looking for another multimillion dollar a year salary somewhere else!

http://profiles.google.com/williamdavidtipton wm tipton

Even if this idiot author is correct and less than 2% of workers make minimum wage, there are huge companies out there who employ tens of thousands or more workers who keep them at minimum wage and only increase to keep up with that wage.
Take away this minimum and these soulless corporations will be paying people like my wife FAR less than what they need to survive.

Im definitely NOT a left winger and I detest unions so anyone claiming that minimum wage is a union/left wing thing is FULL OF CRAP!

http://www.talkofliberty.com/ Talk of Liberty

Yes this idiot author who actually did research is correct based on that research that less than 2% of workers actually make minimum wage.

For you to justify to me that the worker who is less skilled than greater than 98% of this country deserves anything except a low wage is beyond me. Every situation is unique, however most actual working age workers at minimum wage will simply be living on the government through food stamps, fuel assistance, etc. Explain to me why raising minimum wage and paying welfare makes sense?

Let’s abolish minimum wage.

Mrclevesque

Not everyone can afford to refuse work

http://www.talkofliberty.com/ Talk of Liberty

So then if it makes sense, lets raise minimum wage to 100 dollars per hour then? Why stop at 7 dollars? If it is good for 7 then 100 should be really good.

“With each increase in minimum wage, it is becoming harder and harder for
small businesses to start up and grow, and is creating a generation of
kids with no work history.”
=============

Completely illogical.

1. a HUGE reason kids have no work history these days, sorry to say, is that this is by FAR the laziest damned generation of kids this nation has spewed out to date.
It was bad enough when I was growing up…some of the worthless friends I knew way back when are still living in their mothers basements, smoking pot and hanging out on the corner. Its gotten nothing but worse in 25 years.

2. The solution *MAY* be to lower the minimum wage for SCHOOL AGED kids (18 and under), since that seems to be your big concern.
But there are folks working up as high as FIVE part time, minimum wage jobs who have households to support, my friend. And just because YOU had daddy to depend on for your pocket change MOST of these folks are self reliant and DONT have that luxury. Take away minimum wage and they can no longer feed their kids or pay their rent.

Step back and get a hold on reality.

Mary E Stimac

Yes, some kids may be lazy, but I’d bet a good portion of them are already overwhelmed with school and extracurricular activities. I graduated eleven years ago, and during my last two years, I did homework for about two hours a night on an average day. I did more when a test was coming up or a big paper was due. My school didn’t allow a study hour or early release to go to a job. The average amount of homework kids do now has increased even more, not to mention the pressure to join in extra-curricular activities that look good on a college application. All in all, I’d say the average college-bound teenager today works harder than most adults.

USA USA USA

2% of the popullation may make the minimum wage but between 15-20% make below 18,000 a year the only reason companies may pay more to an employee is to keep the investment made in their personnel even if there wage is slightly higher then miniium wage i would not be willing to leave a higher paying job for a lesser if the workload and responsibilty were equal. To think if the minimum wage abolished these people would continue to get there dime above minimum wage is idiotic its to easy to take advantage of peoples faces you are not forced to look at and the only people that would benefit is big business and the lower class would be forced to work harder to be poorer and require more assistance from the gov and would deserve it but would be looked down on as leeches of the system. if the minimum wage were abolished wages across poor and middle class would decline and goods and services would not follow suit i thourghly believe this was posted to rile certain indivuals and it worked but I have been hearing this type of talk often lately and even by upcoming presidential canidates its time to be proactive dont allow the small percentage of the rich to determine our fate we may not have money to run and place lobbyist where needed but our vote is equal and if 20% of the us popullation would vote it would be the highest turnout to date. dont be a slave to a party the doesnt represent you vote on veiws and moral character honesty may be hard to find but a man that would cheat on his wife would also break the oath of public office they swore to god for the both of them.get informed go vote a legit 3rd part would end alot of the BS that we have seen over the years.

Adam

“without a minumum wage in place whats to keep employers from paying less than a dollar an hour?”

Are you willing to work for a dollar an hour? Any business that’s stupid enough to have that low of a wage is going to have a extremely hard time functioning. Any business that ‘s smart enough to realize that a higher paying wage will attract workers will flourish, as they will have the pick from the more skilled workers. The free market, like it or not, is actually very fluid, and can react to most every situation.

Here’s a situation. John owns a store, and a new worker is worth about 6.50 an hour. He wants to make money, so he is willing to employ a worker for 6.00 an hour. Bob is willing to work for 6.00 an hour. Unfortunately, the local bureaucracy decided that the minimum wage is 7.00 an hour. Being a smart business owner, John realizes that losing money would put him out of business. John makes less profit, and Bob is out of a job. Everyone loses, but at least we can feel good about fighting the fat greedy capitalist pigs.

The basic reason why the minimum wage fails is because there is 3 effects the minimum wage can have.

1. The minimum wage is lower than the worth of the employee’s labour.

No effect.

2. The minimum wage is the same as the worth of the employee’s labour.

No effect.

3. The minimum wage is higher than the worth of the employee’s labour.

The employee is out of a job.

The natural reaction to this is that without the minimum wage, people would work for pennies an hour. However, in the same way that employees rely on the employer for money, the employer is reliant on the employee for labour.

Adam

Here is a quick situation.

Joe wants a job. Bob offers him a job as a clerk for 1$ a hour. Joe thinks that is unacceptable, and goes to work for Fred, who pays 6$ an hour. Bob is a stingy guy and is unable to employ anyone, and goes out of business.

TerranceC

Funny thing about that is both of those rates are noticeably lower than the current minimum wage.

You are looking forward to a future where Joe gets to choose between a $1 rate or a $6 rate when right now he can work for no less than a $7.25 rate?

Redsniper123

shouldnt own a fucking business then dumb fuck

http://www.talkofliberty.com/ Talk of Liberty

And you just summarized how jobs are destroyed by liberal thought. In the end under your world, it makes no sense to create a job or a business.

http://www.talkofliberty.com/ Talk of Liberty

Exactly, it’s the same market forces that are at play when an individual earns 80k a year, they refuse to work for less, and employers know it is worth that much to them.

Mrclevesque

Market forces are fine for those who can afford to refuse work

http://www.talkofliberty.com/ Talk of Liberty

I couldn’t have said it any better myself.

Mrclevesque

Market forces are fine for those who can afford to refuse work

Divelda

We don’t need to punish the poor of our country more to make it better. Heavy penalties on outsourcing might make it less attractive to sell out jobs to foreigners who work for pesos a day. If the American people don’t make money, they don’t have to in turn spend.

http://www.talkofliberty.com/ Talk of Liberty

We have seen what penalties do to jobs, just look at for instance, the minimum wage penalty, and how it prevents unskilled workers, typically those just graduating high school from beginning their careers as paid apprentices.

Mrclevesque

Minimum wage does not stop “unskilled workers, typically those just graduating high school from beginning their careers”

http://www.talkofliberty.com/ Talk of Liberty

Why punish every consumer in this country so a few unskilled workers benefit. Low prices are a good thing, remember it is not what you make, but how much it buys you.

Suckmyballs

you do realize that there is a minimum wage and a tipped minimum wage you dumb fuck!!! tipped employees do not make true minimum wage but you would never know this because you obviously have never worked a job in that field nor have any insight into it

CJane

Here we go, one more step towards third world status. What a moron!

Mrclevesque

Market forces are dependent on regulation. The notion of a market free of regulation is non-sensical. By definition all markets are based on a set regulations.

The economic perspective is fine but it does not take into account the majority of facets involved in living together.

We decide, there are no laws of economics to break, only new ways of working together, and even though these new ways may become commonplace, the economics that arise out of them will never become laws or prescriptions we must follow.

http://www.talkofliberty.com/ Talk of Liberty

I am not an Anarchist nor advocate of no laws. I believe in human rights enforced by government, and property rights as well. It is not a human right to a job, those with zero skills are in that position for many reasons, but mostly by choice. We all have free public paid education through high school . As long as contracts and property rights are protected, then the free market can exist.

justfedup

I would be all for paying a higher wage if I could terminate the bad employee who pulls my business down without having to fight the unemployment office who will give them unemployment benefits, which raises my rates. Employee overhead is too costly on the small businessman and keeps going up. I keep taking all the risks and watch the employee laws keep giving more and more to them in wages. I didn’t go into business so I can have employee’s, but to make a living and if if provides a fair living for others, even better. Think about it – what small business has any assurance of income when things are tough, compared to employee’s, who will get employment insurance, all of which factors into what the hourly rate you are really paying someone. Including Workman’s comp, Social Security, Medicare, HR, Bookkeeping costs. It’s no wonder business’s all across this country are shedding their employees – hiring people is the first sign of growth and laying them off or terminating the position the result of too high overhead. Oh wait, I’m in business – therefore I must be rich! At lease that’s what I’m told. Raises for everyone! Or maybe I’ll just wait for the goverment to tell us.

Cfltwd

with minimum wage gone people would be paid according to skill. it just creates a unhappy work place why should i work hard and be happy at a place i have been at for 3 years when they can just hire someone new and they make as much as me and i know what im doing and they are a trainee. minimum wage just makes the cost of living go up.

Let’s look at the Big Mac scenario. If the minimum wage increases, McDonald’s has to increase the cost of a Big Mac in order to recoup their losses from the increase in employee wages. This results in the businessman going through the drive-thru to have to take a larger hit for his lunch. He then realizes he needs more money to maintain his quality of life. The businessman increases his rates and the regular consumer pays more. This vicious cycle gets more gas thrown on the fire every few years as they liberals put it up for a vote. Remember the days when a Big Mac meal was under $3.00? I do.

kayakjack

Anyone, I mean anyone on here thinking we should eliminate the minimum wage has at least one of these two items in their background! They have lived a sheltered, disconnected life in a bubble of privelege without a clue what it’s like to completely support yourself, and, or, they have never travelled, as I have, to places like Istanbul and Cairo and seen what a life that far below the poverty line really looks like! And what, as a result, those countries look like! Is that the America you want? The thing is, if you are legitimately asking whether the minimum wage should be eliminated in what used to be an America with a large, thriving middle class then you should be asking a whole other set of questions!!!!!

http://www.talkofliberty.com/ Talk of Liberty

Are you suggesting the problems in Instanbul can simply be solved by raising the minimum wages there? Did the middle class thrive because of minimum wage? No, the middle class thrives when there are competitive pressures put on wages due to too many open jobs. By eliminating minimum wage, you simply lower the unemployment rate to 0% which means individuals are gaining valuable skills to then move up in their career.

Mr. Bean

Matt, I can understand where you’re coming from regarding minimum wage, and you do a very good job using economic theories proposed by Milton Friedmen himself in making your arguments. However, John Maynard Keynes himself completley refuted Friedman by proving that the market functions based on demand of the consumer rather than competition. Thus, we should actually RAISE the minimum wage in order to stimulate the economy, give the working class more disposable income to buy manufactured goods and thus “force” busniesses to create more jobs to keep up with the sudden rise in demand. As a result of the sudden rise and demand for products as a result of people having more disposable income, small busniess will benefiet as the market for goods will expand, thus giving them a larger pool of consumers to sell to, giving them more revenues, and allowing them to create more jobs in the local community. When small busniesses grow, this creates the competive market that was central to Milton Friedman’s theories. Besides, poverty is immoral and we have an ethical obligation as humans to eliminate it and ensure that every person has the right to life and equal oppurtunity.

Anonymous

Yes, by all means, abolish the evil that is minimum wage. Just one thing first: if CEOs are so desperately threatened by people making miniscule percentages of their pay NOW, what’ll be there to stop them from deciding that employees don’t need to be paid at all? What’ll be there to stop EVERYONE from making that decision? What possible incentive could there be to take unnecessary cuts out of their business just to make the peasants happy?

“This never happens, you stupid liberal,” you say. KK. Kindly explain why so many businesses are packing up and shipping off to Mexico and China, where they can have employees for 50 cents an hour or less. Kindly explain why so many businesses employ slave labor. Kindly explain why they want to abolish child labor laws and minimum work weeks.

While you do that, try considering that minimum wage is not enough to live on NOW, and then imagine lowering it even further beneath the starvation wage line. Then go fuck yourself.

http://www.talkofliberty.com/ Talk of Liberty

Why do these evil CEO’s pay more than minimum wage now for most jobs? Please explain that first.

Not Bias

I’m a freshman in high school and even I think this is one of the most riddiculous argument ever. I do think mimimum wage isn’t that helpful, because it has been belittle over the years mimimum wage now is worth less than what it was in the great depression. Minimum wage was supposed to be index to rise as the the cost of living increase not the reverse. Minimum wage should be at about 10 dollars to make any positive effect in the economy.

http://www.talkofliberty.com/ Talk of Liberty

There is no level minimum wages help, it only prevents those who would learn at lower wages from getting a job. They then can’t climb the skill ladder.

David Hovgaard

Those that call for the repeal of minimum wage do so because they either have no understanding of why it exists in the first place or because it serves their interest. The minimum wage is not a gift to unions it is a floor below which we will not allow people to fall. If business could and we know they would because they do it in other countries they would pay next to nothing. We already have companies stealing from their workers to the tune of fourteen to twenty million dollars a week if they could steal more they would. If they could pay twenty cents an hour they would.

Secondly the idea that getting rid of the minimum wage will create jobs is just laughable. Businesses hire workers because of demand wages, taxes and regulations have nothing to do with it. Plus one of the big reasons our economy is anemic is because half of those that work for wages in this country make less than twenty six thousand dollars a year.
Here is a little fact for all those right wing nuts out there workers are consumers if they don’t make any money they will not buy anything. That fifty percent that is making just over the poverty line they aren’t buying houses or cars or much of anything really they live the best they can and we are poorer for it.
Only fifteen percent of the population of this country that works everyday will ever be able to own house or all the things that go with owning a house. We have effectively priced the majority of Americans out of the American dream and getting rid of the minimum wage will not change that. What will change that is leveling the playing field for workers. What will change that is fining companies that steal from their workers by not paying overtime and the hundreds of other ways that companies rob their workers. What will change that is a willingness for the plutocrats to stop fucking up our government and economy. It is the interference of corporate elites that has stopped progress in this country because they do not want anything to change. We have had the technology to get off of fossil fuels for decades but we haven’t because wealthy elites make money off the way things are and poor and middle class people on the right vote against their own self interest to help them. Stop being suckers this is your country don’t let greedy amoral pigs convince you that what is good for them is good for you it is not.

http://talkofliberty.com Matt

Thanks for the input. The reality is far simpler. As you correctly stated. Demand for employment pushes up wages. Thus if more people have jobs, employers will have to raise wages to attract talent. Ideally full employment is the greatest tool to push up wages for all. Lower wages would allow more entry level participants thus creating more new jobs for smaller employers wanting to grow but struggling due to capital constraints.

The bottom line is if you make 7.75 an hour or 3.75 an hour, you qualify for all the federal subsidies, housing, food stamps etc. The Welfare has already attempted to put a floor on lifestyle so why should an arbitrary wage control be even necessary.

Just a random kid

Good discussion, besides all of the economic ignorance. I don’t think any of the people who left their pro government comments really know how the government is hurting young and unskilled workers from getting a job. I’ve worked 3 low payed jobs in the past 5 of so years,( now im a student) I was finally able to work when I was 15, which in my state was the working age limit. I cant tell you how many times before I was 15 that i wished child labor laws were abolished or at least loosened. My first job was life guarding at a local pool during the summer, which mostly consisted of maintaining the snack bar and cleaning the bathrooms, which is something I was just as capable of doing when I was 14 or 13. Since I was 15 I could not work more than 20 hours a week, leaving me at home often board and unproductive. My next job was life guarding at a water park which was just across the state boarder in South Carolina. At this job since there was a great demand for lifeguards I got paid 8.50 an hour. Though it took me an hour to get there it was worth it, since SC allows minors to work more than 20 hours a week. I was working 10 hours a day, 5 days a week. I saved up about 80% of that money and invested it in the stock market which had always fascinated me. But it was short lived because once the summer ended I was again unemployed. I was now looking for any part time job for the weekends. It took me 6 months to find one, for it was a very competitive market in my area. I applied to numerous restaurants, but got nothing. I found about later that the Chik Fila I had applied to received 200-300 resumes. I would’ve very happily accepted a 5 dollar an hour job that was in my area, but since the government had placed a price floor on the labor market there was a job shortage. I eventually got a job waiting tables at a steak n shake in a town 40 minutes away through a connection with my dad’s friend. While there i often earned 10-12 dollars an hour through tips plus the 2.17 an hour the company was required to pay me. Anyone who works in the restaurant industry knows it is not easy work and since 80% of my money came directly through the customer, I did everything I could possibly do to satisfy the consumer.

However I would often get sent home if the restaurant wasn’t that busy, and the manager thought the company could be just as efficient with less waiters or waitresses, this while saving the company money decreased the customer service. If there want a minimum wage I probably would’ve made all of my money soley on tips, but there wouldn’t be an incentive for the manager to send me home if he thought they could work with one less waiter, and service quality would improve.

While I was happy with my job four of my friends who were continuing their search for jobs in the local area were unable to find any. Looking back I was lucky I had a couple of connections to get a a job and a car to do so. If I hadn’t, I most likely would’ve been unemployed during my high school years, and would have made going to college much more difficult.

For those of you who advocate government intervention in the labor market, take a moment a think about the results rather then the intention. For though big brother trys to help with good intentions, this is not your smart and admirable big brother, this is your idiot and clumsy big brother who trys to help you build a tower with your toy blocks but ends up accidentally knocking it down.

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