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Wednesdays (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-22-08 12:06 AM
Original message
Am I right in feeling sqeamish about this course outline?
(Cross-posted in athiests group)

My daughter had her first day of 6th grade in a charter middle school in Oklahoma City Public Schools. She brought home this course outline, that she and I must sign and turn in by tomorrow. Is it just me, or is there some subtle proselytizing here?
[scan of outline saying offensive things like why years are called BC and AD]

Followed by lots of concerned nodding and 'I'd contact the teacher' or 'pull your kid out' crap. Apparently DUmmies want history classes to have a slight 2000 year gap.

It's called HISTORY. Get over it. If it wasn't for Christianity Western Civilization as we know it wouldn't exist. Try reading up on it. I even wrote a paper on it posted at my web site for a college class last year. :mad:

This kind of thing really steams me. I can't believe how ignorant those posts were. Then again I should expect it of them.

Last edited by InspiredHome; 08-23-2008 at 02:29 AM.

Woe to those who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter.

Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes
and clever in their own sight.

MorningGlow (1000+ posts) Thu Aug-21-08 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
40. That's a lot of religion for a world studies course
I'm not sure how I feel about that. (When I was in school, we were forced to memorize lists of imports and exports, so I suppose this is a leap forward!)

Speaking as a priestess of Isis, I object to the notion that pyramids were tombs. Some later ones were, but the Great Pyramids never contained bodies of pharaohs.

Oh--and speaking as a former Catholic, Jesus didn't found Christianity. He was a Jew and said "DON'T follow me--think for yourselves." It was the folks who came after who founded Christianity and proclaimed him divine.

Another non Christian that is an expert on the bible.

It's interesting that so many say that the information about Christianity is myth, or is proselytizing and should not be a part of the course, but they don't have anything to say about Islam in those regards.

It's called HISTORY. Get over it. If it wasn't for Christianity Western Civilization as we know it wouldn't exist. Try reading up on it. I even wrote a paper on it posted at my web site for a college class last year. :mad:

This kind of thing really steams me. I can't believe how ignorant those posts were. Then again I should expect it of them.

You forget that these are the same people who beg for the Ministry of Truth to become reality, perpetually rewriting history to fit the belief of the day.

I think I liked it better when the work filter blocked DU. Made it much easier to resist the urge to read the rest of what these fools write.

Romans 6:18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

Differences between Obama and God: God's plan to save us is actually written down for people to read. Rush Limbaugh.

"Jesus didn't found Christianity. He was a Jew and said "DON'T follow me--think for yourselves." "

Um, no. What was that "Isis priestess" smoking when she wrote that? Her ignorance is overwhelming.
Speaking as someone who has been a Christian for all of my 24 years on this planet, and who is about to begin my second year at a theological seminary, I can safely say that Jesus never said anything like that in the Bible. However, here are a few things that He did, indeed, say:
"If any man will come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me."

"If ye continue in My word, then ye are My disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

"I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life: no man cometh unto the Father but by Me."

Then, of course, there is the section of Luke in which Jesus compared those who listen to Him and follow Him and what He says to the wise man who built his house on the rocks where it stood strong, and compared those who refused to follow Him to the foolish man who built his house on the sand where the waves destroyed it.

Then, of course, there are all the times that Jesus refers to Himself as the Good Shepherd. Last time I checked, shepherds were supposed to guide their flocks, not leave them on their own.
One day, 'MorningGlow' will have to answer to God for not just rejecting Him and following a false idol instead, but also for perverting His Word with her lies. I wouldn't want to be in her shoes on that day.

Oh--and speaking as a former Catholic, Jesus didn't found Christianity. He was a Jew and said "DON'T follow me--think for yourselves." It was the folks who came after who founded Christianity and proclaimed him divine.

FOLLOWERS:
Brian! Brian! Brian!...
BRIAN:
Good morning.
FOLLOWERS:
A blessing! A blessing! A blessing!...
BRIAN:
No. No, please! Please! Please listen. I've got one or two things to say.
FOLLOWERS:
Tell us. Tell us both of them.
BRIAN:
Look. You've got it all wrong.
You don't need to follow me. You don't need to follow anybody! You've got to think for yourselves. You're all individuals!
FOLLOWERS:
Yes, we're all individuals!
BRIAN:
You're all different!
FOLLOWERS:
Yes, we are all different!
DENNIS:
I'm not.

And from what I remember, the real Jesus spent most of his time saying "Follow me, " as in:

18 ¶ And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers.
19 And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.
20 And they straightway left [their] nets, and followed him.
21 And going on from thence, he saw other two brethren, James [the son] of Zebedee, and John his brother, in a ship with Zebedee their father, mending their nets; and he called them.
22 And they immediately left the ship and their father, and followed him.

That's not in any way preaching that God is real or that Jesus was the son of God etc, it's merely stating the fact that Jesus did spend his life preaching such things. Are you trying to imply that Jesus, regardless of one's belief in what he was or wasn't, did try and preach about God or love?

Edited on Fri Aug-22-08 01:23 PM by mike_c
...let alone "preached about God's love and forgiveness." Many historians either dispute his existence-- there is little or no objective evidence for it, only the assertions of christians who are utterly non-objective, mostly wrote long after 33 CE and had no personal connection with any of the events they described, and often wrote with self-serving alternative agendas-- or they question whether his actual historical role was anything like the mythos that was constructed around him. And certainly, even if he existed and was a religious figure, his "preaching" was just superstitious, delusional nonsense founded upon the notion of judgmental, invisible figures living in the sky-- an archtype that might have resonated with primitive cultures who thought "heaven, earth, and hell" were located in the sky, on the ground, and underground, but you know, we can actually SEE into the sky and under the ground these days, and there isn't any sign of either celestial cities or demons living amongst the brimstone.

Jesus might be just as mythical as an individual. There is no objective evidence to dispute that view.

on edit: I presume you meant to write: "Are you trying to imply that Jesus, regardless of one's belief in what he was or wasn't, did not try and preach about God or love?"

OPERATIONMINDCRIME (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-22-08 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. If You Want To Use That Ignorance As Your Argument So Be It.

But I consider it right up there in line with those who claim "there are many scientists who don't believe in the theory of evolution" or "there are many scientists who believe global warming doesn't exist at all" blah blah blah. Same malarkey.

Edited on Fri Aug-22-08 01:32 PM by mike_c
Ideas and evidence that conflict with xtian superstitions are ignorant "malarkey," an argument that's always made with utter conviction and absolutely no evidentiary support. Which brings us full circle, back to schools teaching christian delusions as fact and objective historical discourse as questionable malarkey, if they address it at all. The xtian taliban are in no danger of losing their grip on American schools in much of Jesusland.

There is no such delusions being taught in that outline whatsoever. There was nothing but historical and well documented fact found in the outline and it is you playing the part of fundy irrational whackjob by acting like there is something to be outraged about.

Like I said: I find your logic and objection to be right in line with the whackos that say "evolution isn't proven. Teach creationism!" and "there are several reputable scientists that say global warming doesn't exist!!111". You're all cut of the same ignorant cloth.