Good game of Rugby. I actually thought the Welsh defensive effort was better in the England game. I felt England posed a bigger threat than Ireland did and- despite England breaching the defence through Youngs- Wales still did 'more' in that game than they did last night. Splitting hairs perhaps, as it was still a very good defensive showing. The sustained pressure that resulted in Liam Williams giving away the penalty, and then finally ending with Henshaw's infringement (I think?) was incredibly reminiscent of all those phases 2 years ago, even in the way Liam Williams gave the penalty away at the breakdown! Shaun Edwards is getting some credit back in the bank with the Welsh defence this season, they're looking a bit savvier than they were 18 months/2 years ago, it's not just greater commitment.

Standouts for Wales were Warburton and Tipuric. Incredible defensive effort. Warburton hammered Stander twice in the tackle, which is no mean feat. We'll see whether I'm vindicated in maintaining he's still likely to be Lions captain, but he's almost certainly in the 23, and perhaps it's between Tipuric, Warburton, and Stander to make up the 6, 7, and 20 shirts. Unfortunately for Tipuric- because I seem to remember him getting through more tackles than Warburton (?)- he probably loses out under Gatland because he's not quite as dominant as Warburton. But what a game from both of them. Unfortunate that neither had any real effect at poaching the ball, but it clearly wasn't that sort of game, and a very un-Barnes kind of interpretation at the breakdown, allowing the attacking side a lot of time to recycle the ball, letting the game flow (consistent for both sides, so fair enough).

I don't think Ireland can be too upset. We saw the two most structured teams in the tournament go head to head, and Wales played with a bit more fire in them. That was enough to win. Ireland showed Biggar's limitations as a first receiver, which is the first time in a long time he's been really exploited at Test level, but even that wasn't enough.

Someone mentioned earlier in the thread 'what do fans think about Zebo and Earls?', and I think that was a key difference. There were a few occasions where Ireland had Wales on the rack, and a loose kick would go to Ireland's back field, or the ball went into the wide channel. There is a big, big difference between Liam Williams or North managing to break a tackle and make an extra 5-10 yards through their footwork and strength respectively, and Earls, Zebo, and Kearney not able to do likewise. That has a cumulative effect in my opinion, particularly the way Ireland play, which- like Wales- is often death by a thousand cuts, keeping up pressure, hoping the opposition eventually cracks. Zebo has more to him than Earls, but he rarely seems to deliver it in an Irish shirt.

Very happy with the Welsh scrum, thought they might struggle. Ireland should be worried for England to be honest. Likewise in the lineout. Best wobbled against Scotland, and again against Wales, with his throwing. In my opinion, he's now on the brink of being out of Lions contention barring injury. He's some player, but- again with those fine margins- the ease with which Wales stole 3 of his throws is anathema to Gatland, particularly when you have Toner as a jumper. He might go because of who he is as a person and a player, but I don't think he's in the frame for the Tests. I actually think Ken Owens stands a decent chance of making the Tour as third choice to be honest, he's playing like a man possessed and finally translating his clear ability to the Test arena, and is hitting his jumpers.

However, this game could have been very different. Roberts may get some praise, but I'm not sure he 'deserves' it. It wasn't his tackle that made Ireland cough up possession in what could have been the winning score, it was merely an overran inside line by Earls (?). Likewise, Faletau's pressure led to his try. Fine margins indeed: I'm not sure whether the maul would have gone over without Henshaw's intervention to be honest, perhaps it would have. However, I though PoM's pressure on the Welsh line was the turning point that meant Ireland would finally break Wales and get the score. He's been unlucky with injury, as he's some player. Anyway, that's the moment where you want a game changer- someone like North, or Liam Williams- who has that extra burst of pace or trickery in them to get over the line. Ringrose may well be one for the future, but I don't think Ireland's midfield looked up to scratch to be honest. Certainly a lot of potential, and this experience will be an excellent opportunity to learn, but yesterday, he and Henshaw weren't quite at the level of JD2 and Scott Williams.

I think Murray going off was a big blow for you. So much goes through him, and whilst Marmion has good delivery, he offers no real threat, and it helped Wales line up Irish ball carriers. Sexton and Murray took a battering, and whilst I don't think they were 'targeted' per se, it was good work by Wales to take out Ireland's two most important players by physically hammering them. On the Lions topic, again, that has to be a worry: NZ will do likewise, push them to an intensity that unsettles them, and make them tackle and cover and tire them out so they're not able to get into their stride. That said, Sexton stood up pretty well, though I thought his up and unders were quite mixed. When they were good, they were very good, but there were a few that were well off.

I can't see Ireland beating England if I'm honest, it would have to be a performance akin to Wales's yesterday where they're up for the whole 80 minutes, aware that their Lions positions are up for grabs. It's possible, but England have those 'fine margin' players in Daly, Nowell etc. that Ireland perhaps lack. They also have the physical prowess to unsettle Ireland, both in attack and defence, and of course in the scrum. The way to beat them- as Wales very nearly did- is to be technically better than them, particularly at the breakdown. Be cleaner than clean when defending, and accept England will probably score at some point. But if you're able to exert pressure of your own, then England will concede penalties. They're not as savvy as Wales or Ireland in this regard, in part because they don't have to be. Ireland were unlucky that their aerial work didn't result in points against Wales, as several times it very nearly did lead to a clean break of even a try. This is something to again look to, play to your strengths, but beware of the counter attack.

I hope Wales go on and beat France, I see no reason why they shouldn't as it's probably the most structured team against the least. If you let them get up to speed, they'll be a threat, but they look very poor at the transition stages, things like exits, restarts, what to do with slow ball etc. England played in third gear and beat them precisely because France were poor in these areas. It's where Wales have targeted them in the last few years, and have managed to get enough dominance to win. I hope this is the game Scott Williams gets some space to run in, he's looked very good in the narrow channels so far, solid in everything he's done, with the England game in particular being a stand out, but he hasn't shone in attack as he hasn't been allowed to. Getting him into the game as a pivot between Webb and the outside backs- a lot like North's first try yesterday, in fact- is the way forward for Wales. I don't think this is the game for Sam Davies unfortunately, I felt that was yesterday had Wales not been so under the cosh, as it was crying out for a first receiver able to adapt to Ireland's rush defence. But Biggar's doing well, and I think they need his solidity in a game that- if it opens up- could see Wales undo all their good work. Hopefully he gets on at some stage though, with the game having been won!

Enjoyed last night a lot. Imagine Irish fans will, quite rightly, disagree as they lost, but Friday night rugby is a great start to the weekend.

A lot has already been said. I felt it was a good game, but not sure it was a classic, a few too many errors from either side for that (quite a lot of Irish knock-ons, and Halfpenny's struggles under the high ball for instance). Still, it was tense, and hung into the balance right up to Roberts's try.

Ireland looked rather toothless in attack. The one-pass-out-and-carry approach too predictable against a fired up aggressive defense.

My feeling is this. Leinster coached by Schmidt played some attacking expansive rugby, so it's not something he can't do. Maybe he thinks defenses are better at international level and space less available, so the best way to win is to make as few mistakes as possible, and the style of play he's developped reflects that. Certainly his sides' discipline is terrific.

Another point perhaps worth making. Ireland vs Scotland with Jackson at the helm scored three tries; vs France and Wales with Sexton at the helm have scored a single try across both games (I'll ignore Italy). Now Scotland may not be renowned for their defense, but with just two tries conceded vs Wales and France combined they've not exactly been porous. So does Jackson make the Irish attack more dangerous?

Wales were overall very good, except for the aerial game (Halfpenny especially, one great take from Biggar notwithstanding). Their intensity was a massive step up from the Scotland game, and they scored two very nice tries. Webb dictated play very well indeed, and on this form should be on the plane for the Lions. Thought his wide pass for the first try (after a good support line off the initial break) was terrific in awareness and execution. Nice spot also for the second try.

Warburton seems to have really benefitted from losing the captaincy, it's made him step up. His carrying is underrated (seems to often make yards in traffic) and his breakdown work top notch.

I can't see Ireland beating England if I'm honest, it would have to be a performance akin to Wales's yesterday where they're up for the whole 80 minutes, aware that their Lions positions are up for grabs. It's possible, but England have those 'fine margin' players in Daly, Nowell etc. that Ireland perhaps lack. They also have the physical prowess to unsettle Ireland, both in attack and defence, and of course in the scrum. The way to beat them- as Wales very nearly did- is to be technically better than them, particularly at the breakdown. Be cleaner than clean when defending, and accept England will probably score at some point. But if you're able to exert pressure of your own, then England will concede penalties. They're not as savvy as Wales or Ireland in this regard, in part because they don't have to be. Ireland were unlucky that their aerial work didn't result in points against Wales, as several times it very nearly did lead to a clean break of even a try. This is something to again look to, play to your strengths, but beware of the counter attack. ....

Lots of good stuff in this article and its not really the place but forgive me for picking up on this. England are a bit inconsistent with discipline, and can go through spells of coughing up penalties (especially early on in the games to date) but they can on occasion be extremely disciplined, as Wales found to their cost

3 tries to nothing. Wales fully deserved their win, as many Irish fans thought they would pre-tournament and pregame. The usual business of plenty of territory and possession and no end product. POM should have started. SOB has never been effective against Wales.

Bowe on the bench was a bad joke. Zebo and Earls are finishers but we may as well be playing McFadden and D. Kearney if we aren't going to give them the ball in the opposition 22. Better yet stick a few flankers on the wings.

Yes I enjoyed that PH, and thanks for the gracious response, I'm going to make replies to a number of points. Miaow have to agree with your condemnation of supposed Welsh followers who wanted us to lose not only this game but others pre tournament in order for Howley and Co to be shown the door. I'm not a big Howley fan and think we could do a lot better, yet I wouldn't want Wales to lose any game.

Miaow as far as this game is concerned, have to agree with you the best 2 players were our 2 flankers, yet that is where the conundrum sets in, if we want to play an expansive game and I can see that we are trying, those 2 have to be playing, and Sam Davies is the logical choice in the ten shirt, but and it is a BIG BUT, he will be targeted remorselessly and his defence IMO is not strong enough at Guinness League level never mind the step up to the International stage, there is nothing wrong with his technique or bottle. He still also makes fundamental errors as he showed last week, (ball passed back into 22 and he kicks straight to touch, also Duncan Weir chipped over the first stage of defence which Sam was covering on 2 occasions and he coughed up the ball both times), to me the right procedure is being followed, Sam will have plenty of opportunities.

The player that frightened me last night was Gareth Davies, he was like a rabbit in the headlights, and Dan had a right go at him on one occasion, he needs to go back to the Scarlets and replaced by either of his teammates, have to say it was good to have George back on the right track, and have the defence we are normally used to.

Jamie Heaslip is up there with BOD as one of Ireland's greatest centres...Shame he's a number 8. He spends so much time hanging around in the 15m channels I was beginning to wonder if he'd had a late career position change. It's cringeworthy stuff.

gcBlues wrote:Jamie Heaslip is up there with BOD as one of Ireland's greatest centres...Shame he's a number 8. He spends so much time hanging around in the 15m channels I was beginning to wonder if he'd had a late career position change. It's cringeworthy stuff.

Well played Wales; I have to start with that because you were excellent in all departments. A real return to form by a number of key individuals, who mostly shaded their opposite numbers on the night.

As far as ireland are concerned, it was so frustrating to see basic errors cost us any chance of hauling ourselves back into the game. The Henshaw business was the most glaring one but we've really got to sort out our line-out drills, for example, near the opposition line, and look for far more variety in general in our back play. Bludgeon plus rapier would be nice - I've never see the sense in trying to take Wales on in a fashion that suits them down to the ground and that has now been exposed for the past three years.

The back three is still what worries me more than anything; there was clear daylight between Williams, halfpenny and North and their opposite numbers on Friday. We need more than an aerial catcher at 15; Kearney adds so little in attack and his tackling isn't good enough to compensate for this. Earls also has his defensive problems, although he was good and elusive the other evening. Given more opportunity, he could have been a serious handful. Zebo is still a complete enigma - a Ferrari with a faulty chassis, if you ask me, and I'd like to see the law laid down to him properly about what's expected. Has provided so little threat to the better defences and the time must be approaching when one of Byrne, Sweetnam or Stockdale are given the chance to show their pace and abilty at the highest level.

Generally, I still have faith in most of our personnel. I would like to say the same about our willingness to be tactically and strategically flexible. These are the same issues about which Welsh fans have had their complaints in recent years - in that sense, we played right into Welsh hands on Friday.

I have to say though, what has happened to Wales' aerial game? Liam Williams, Halfpenny and Biggar used to be phenomenal under the high ball. I'd always be confident of winning the majority of the high balls because they usually did. But now we seem to be losing most of them. Not sure if they've lost a bit of confidence or other teams have improved, but the 50/50s are just not going our way.

eirebilly wrote:Feel sorry for you Welsh lads though as that is Howley sorted for another 5 years...

An unfair target of the rugby public, in my opinion. He's not gonna do crazy selections, drop loads of players, change the way wales play etc...what would be the point? To show he can do the job full time? Come August, Gatland is (supposedly) back so will take charge again and want to play the way he does, if howley had made any drastic changes they would just be stopped and revert back to how gatland wants to play. He's in a no win situation because Roger Lewis has given Gatland so much power/say that it's impossible to do anything differently without his approval.

Gatlands contract (like rob's) runs until after the WC in 2019 and by that time I would hope the WRU realise that the coaching staff need a complete overhaul and RH is likely not to be kept on.

Griff wrote:I have to say though, what has happened to Wales' aerial game? Liam Williams, Halfpenny and Biggar used to be phenomenal under the high ball. I'd always be confident of winning the majority of the high balls because they usually did. But now we seem to be losing most of them. Not sure if they've lost a bit of confidence or other teams have improved, but the 50/50s are just not going our way.

Now, now Gatland was back. I think he must have given a friendly few pointers considering he spent a week in Ireland training camp a few weeks back and had that lovely big ("it wasn't me!") smile on his face at the end. Oh I scent complicity from yon 'Neutral' Lions Coach

Yeah, I'm no Barnes fan generally, but couldn't argue too much with what he did on Friday. Bit harsh yellow carding a bloke who couldn't physically get away from that ruck, but it's always likely to happen when the action is that close to the try line.

captain carrantuohil wrote:Yeah, I'm no Barnes fan generally, but couldn't argue too much with what he did on Friday. Bit harsh yellow carding a bloke who couldn't physically get away from that ruck, but it's always likely to happen when the action is that close to the try line.

It's actually one of my biggest bug bears, when you see a player penalized when he has about 4 forwards lying on him. Felt for Sexton there, and have been annoyed previously when Wales have been pinged for the same. Virtually impossible to get out of there in that situation. And the attacking team knows it. If the support runners can get there very quickly then they can pin the man in and no amount of wriggling will help him.

captain carrantuohil wrote:Yeah, I'm no Barnes fan generally, but couldn't argue too much with what he did on Friday. Bit harsh yellow carding a bloke who couldn't physically get away from that ruck, but it's always likely to happen when the action is that close to the try line.

It's actually one of my biggest bug bears, when you see a player penalized when he has about 4 forwards lying on him. Felt for Sexton there, and have been annoyed previously when Wales have been pinged for the same. Virtually impossible to get out of there in that situation. And the attacking team knows it. If the support runners can get there very quickly then they can pin the man in and no amount of wriggling will help him.

The daft thing about pinning players in is that unless the referee falls for it, all you've done is slowed your own ball down.

munkian wrote:He even apologised to Best for not being able to award the try for an Irish infringement.

Why should a referee have to apologise for doing his job ? It was ridiculous.

The Irish media need a long hard look at themselves.

He was being blamed for the loss long before the game started. Poor form.

Best to get the blame-game out of the way before the game. That allowed Wayne to enjoy the game itself. I think the Irish were being very nice to him. And we add another non-win to our record under him. So we're all happy

munkian wrote:He even apologised to Best for not being able to award the try for an Irish infringement.

Why should a referee have to apologise for doing his job ? It was ridiculous.

The Irish media need a long hard look at themselves.

*Edit*

Sexwee knew what he was doing, no attempt what so ever to roll away, yellow card every time.

How can you roll away when the tackled player lies on top of you?

You can't. But you have to shake, rattle and roll, and hold your hands out, and wiggle your toes, and stick out your tongue to make sure the ref believes that 'you are trying'. He knows you can't but the rule book says you gotta look like an eejit and 'try'.

I wish we could just forget about Barnes - he wasn't the reason we lost, we were. So Barnes is a schoolmasterly type who enjoys the authority he wields. Big deal.

We wasted all our opportunities, it's that simple. Henshaw had no business anywhere near that bloody maul; the try was going to be scored without his intervention and it was the correct decision to penalise him, unfortunately. As I say, Jonny was unlucky to go off, but that's the way it goes. We weren't good enough and I expect a serious reaction in Dublin on Saturday. I'm sure the players won't be making excuses; they'll be looking to make England suffer a backlash and quite right, too.

munkian wrote:He even apologised to Best for not being able to award the try for an Irish infringement.

Why should a referee have to apologise for doing his job ? It was ridiculous.

The Irish media need a long hard look at themselves.

*Edit*

Sexwee knew what he was doing, no attempt what so ever to roll away, yellow card every time.

How can you roll away when the tackled player lies on top of you?

You can't. But you have to shake, rattle and roll, and hold your hands out, and wiggle your toes, and stick out your tongue to make sure the ref believes that 'you are trying'. He knows you can't but the rule book says you gotta look like an eejit and 'try'.

Not wrapping yourself around the ball carrier and rolling with him will work too.

captain carrantuohil wrote:I wish we could just forget about Barnes - he wasn't the reason we lost, we were. So Barnes is a schoolmasterly type who enjoys the authority he wields. Big deal.

We wasted all our opportunities, it's that simple. Henshaw had no business anywhere near that bloody maul; the try was going to be scored without his intervention and it was the correct decision to penalise him, unfortunately. As I say, Jonny was unlucky to go off, but that's the way it goes. We weren't good enough and I expect a serious reaction in Dublin on Saturday. I'm sure the players won't be making excuses; they'll be looking to make England suffer a backlash and quite right, too.

munkian wrote:He even apologised to Best for not being able to award the try for an Irish infringement.

Why should a referee have to apologise for doing his job ? It was ridiculous.

The Irish media need a long hard look at themselves.

*Edit*

Sexwee knew what he was doing, no attempt what so ever to roll away, yellow card every time.

How can you roll away when the tackled player lies on top of you?

You can't. But you have to shake, rattle and roll, and hold your hands out, and wiggle your toes, and stick out your tongue to make sure the ref believes that 'you are trying'. He knows you can't but the rule book says you gotta look like an eejit and 'try'.

Not wrapping yourself around the ball carrier and rolling with him will work too.

captain carrantuohil wrote:I wish we could just forget about Barnes - he wasn't the reason we lost, we were. So Barnes is a schoolmasterly type who enjoys the authority he wields. Big deal.

We wasted all our opportunities, it's that simple. Henshaw had no business anywhere near that bloody maul; the try was going to be scored without his intervention and it was the correct decision to penalise him, unfortunately. As I say, Jonny was unlucky to go off, but that's the way it goes. We weren't good enough and I expect a serious reaction in Dublin on Saturday. I'm sure the players won't be making excuses; they'll be looking to make England suffer a backlash and quite right, too.

To be fair, we were good enough but not great that's the frustrating bit. Despite being capable of so much more we could have should have got more from the game but ultimately poor execution cost us