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One other thing that is cool about dgaf, is that he's pretty honorable from what I can tell.

For example, a lot of the regs who are good at playing deep stacked at the commerce, will "go north" when they reload, and put down more than 1500, usually with white chips. It doesn't really bother me either way, but I noticed DGAF didn't do this a couple of times, when he clearly could have gotten away with it. It's also something that would give him a greater edge in a pretty substantial way because of his style compared to most players.

Also, the other day when there was an option to sit on my left or right, and still have position on the fishes, he opted to sit on my right. Obviously, I'm not going to go crazy and start wars with him, and he probably views me as fairly tight anyway, but in my eyes, clearly the better seat was to my left. Eventually he moved over, but I felt like in his eyes, both seats were good, and he was doing me a courtesy. I could be totally wrong though, of which I'd look like an idiot, but oh well.

I tend to do that with people that I know are good players, like for example, kwansolo and I will sit exactly across the table from each other, that way neither of us has position.

These kinds of things matter in live games because people notice, whether it's subconscious or otherwise. Not chopping, being easy to get along with, joking around a little bit, not breaking the rules, giving a little nod of respect to the other good regs in the game, etc. All of this stuff helps keep the game more fun for everyone to play, and in the end that matter a lot. If you're a good player, you want to stay in action. The less aggressive and more fun a game is, the more likely it is that recreational players will keep bleeding money and returning, and more likely the other regs won't be gunning for you (this is going to probably happen a lot anyway, but at least it will be less stressful).

dgaf "gets it" more than almost anyway I play with. Its something the old school guys like Chip Reese understood, and it gets totally lost on the new generation of poker players.

Ideally you want the fish on your right and a tight player on your left. Poker is a business for professionals.

"Also, the other day when there was an option to sit on my left or right, and still have position on the fishes, he opted to sit on my right. Obviously, I'm not going to go crazy and start wars with him, and he probably views me as fairly tight anyway, but in my eyes, clearly the better seat was to my left. Eventually he moved over, but I felt like in his eyes, both seats were good, and he was doing me a courtesy. I could be totally wrong though, of which I'd look like an idiot, but oh well."

[QUOTE=novel20;33064688]Ideally you want the fish on your right and a tight player on your left. Poker is a business for professionals.

I have to think it depends on what kind of fish we are talking about. If it's the guy who's always blind raising 10-50 xbb you are better off on his right I think. If he's a loose passive fish it's better if he's on your right where you can isolate. And if it's two good players, my preference is to be across the table.

Ideally you want the fish on your right and a tight player on your left. Poker is a business for professionals.

I have to think it depends on what kind of fish we are talking about. If it's the guy who's always blind raising 10-50 xbb you are better off on his Left I think. If he's a loose passive fish it's better if he's on your right where you can isolate. And if it's two good players, my preference is to be across the table.

Last edited by jrr63; 05-31-2012 at 09:26 PM.
Reason: Edited -AGF on right, PF on left

One other thing that is cool about dgaf, is that he's pretty honorable from what I can tell.

For example, a lot of the regs who are good at playing deep stacked at the commerce, will "go north" when they reload, and put down more than 1500, usually with white chips. It doesn't really bother me either way, but I noticed DGAF didn't do this a couple of times, when he clearly could have gotten away with it. It's also something that would give him a greater edge in a pretty substantial way because of his style compared to most players.

Also, the other day when there was an option to sit on my left or right, and still have position on the fishes, he opted to sit on my right. Obviously, I'm not going to go crazy and start wars with him, and he probably views me as fairly tight anyway, but in my eyes, clearly the better seat was to my left. Eventually he moved over, but I felt like in his eyes, both seats were good, and he was doing me a courtesy. I could be totally wrong though, of which I'd look like an idiot, but oh well.

I tend to do that with people that I know are good players, like for example, kwansolo and I will sit exactly across the table from each other, that way neither of us has position.

These kinds of things matter in live games because people notice, whether it's subconscious or otherwise. Not chopping, being easy to get along with, joking around a little bit, not breaking the rules, giving a little nod of respect to the other good regs in the game, etc. All of this stuff helps keep the game more fun for everyone to play, and in the end that matter a lot. If you're a good player, you want to stay in action. The less aggressive and more fun a game is, the more likely it is that recreational players will keep bleeding money and returning, and more likely the other regs won't be gunning for you (this is going to probably happen a lot anyway, but at least it will be less stressful).

dgaf "gets it" more than almost anyway I play with. Its something the old school guys like Chip Reese understood, and it gets totally lost on the new generation of poker players.

Ideally you want the fish on your right and a tight player on your left. Poker is a business for professionals.

"Also, the other day when there was an option to sit on my left or right, and still have position on the fishes, he opted to sit on my right. Obviously, I'm not going to go crazy and start wars with him, and he probably views me as fairly tight anyway, but in my eyes, clearly the better seat was to my left. Eventually he moved over, but I felt like in his eyes, both seats were good, and he was doing me a courtesy. I could be totally wrong though, of which I'd look like an idiot, but oh well."

Seriously? I had no idea! Good post!

(I knew i was putting myself out there by saying that, but im pretty sure in a perfect world he rather have position on us both).

I'd really like to just be "DGAF" on here, leaving my real name out if that's cool. I pm'd jloc asking him to edit it out of the last few posts...

Having said that, thx for the kind words worldbofree. That was fun playing with you last night (even though I could not for the life of me beat the spot, despite starting with the best hand and position almost every time!). It's no coincidence IMO that as the night wore on, all the other games around us broke and ours remained healthy and full. Everyone at our table seemed to really like the free show we gave them, dumbing up poker beyond belief with our timely back and forth, speculating on jackpot "flow", etc. That stuff (entertaining the table) is obv a lot more important at smaller venues than at cc, but even here, it's extremely valuable wrt game preservation imo. Whatever game I'm in, 5-10 or 10-20 or whatever, is usually the one that breaks last, and I take a lot of pride in that. I'm pretty sure you feel the same way...

Wrt seat selection- I will not always take the best seat at the table. There are unwritten rules, and if I had position on a good player the previous time we played, I will spot him position the next time and then just adjust by tapping into my tag side a little. Ideally though, I like to be in neutral position against the other good player at the table (like you and kwansolo do), and games with more than 2 good players usually just aren't very good games IMO. I took the seat on your right the other day as to not be a vulture- it was intentional. The seat on your left was obv better.

I will also not take the best seat available if it's going to be too obvious why I'm doing it and if it might ruin the vibe at the table. The other night I showed up and there was a good 4 handed 10-20 going. The 2 bad players and the one nitreg were at like 100 bbs, and Phil laak was deep. Ideally I would take a seat on pl's left, sit deep and just run over the game, however the way everyone had gotten comfortable in their chairs, I would have had to ask people to move/rearrange and it just wouldn't have been good business. So I took one of the many open seats on pl's right and pretty much just played every 5th hand (my button) until the dynamics changed.

I like to think I'm very honorable in the often scummy live poker world, and so yes, I concede position at times if I feel it is right. Novel20 is right though in general with what he said...

As far as going north- I used to think nothing was wrong with it at all (if you were stuck/running bad), and I was the king of iao's (illegal add ons). The only people who usually ever objected were super grindy nits, and obv I dont care what they think. If a good player (or just a cool guy) sitting deep objected, I would oblige always, but overall I just thought it was one of the rules that was made to be broken- if done right...

Then I had a pretty bad experience at this fake little casino called lake elsinore, where I verbally lifted the cap (which had been done on more than one occasion by other stuck spewtards). About 30 mins later, I win my first pot of the night and it's gigantic, and all hell breaks loose. A couple people (including one of the few good players in that ****hole) whom i had treated very well and somewhat befriended (I thought), decide to play hero to the reg who lost the pot and they bring my iao to the fake management's attention. Then the fake manager comes over and confronts me AT THE TABLE and accuses me of cheating, then the guy who lost the pot (who gets away with ungodly behavior in that place because he tips like crazy) starts legit threatening my life, then security 86s ME (even though I'm still cool as a cucumber), then I get coerced into giving villain a 1k rebate, etc... So I've just decide that life is too short, and when I'm in a capped game (and I pretty much won't play less than 150 bb cap now) I'll just stick to the guidelines moving forward- even if I don't totally agree with them.

***Haha, I'm completely over that lake Elsinore incident (and there are actually some really cool regs/employees over there), it just felt good to vent/spit some venom after losing my millionth sports bet in a row. Fu spurs!

The hand in question seems kind of familiar, but without a more detailed hh I don't even want to speculate as to what I might have had. That's a rough board for JJ though lol. You've seen me at some of my spewier moments ever (day 2 of some really brutal poker benders, etc) so it's possible you were good, but I doubt it. I'm usually only a total monkey whilst in position... Unless we were playing red chips, then anything is possible/likely I suppose.

As far as making more than one pair- that **** is hard to do in live poker! Also, I don't remember us battling too much when were in the same games. As you stated, you always seemed kinda card dead, and visibly frustrated because you knew I was incredibly wide at all times and you wanted to go to war but the dealers never let you.

As far as grinding live poker goes- I honestly don't think you are a good fit for it over a signif amount of hours. Obv you can beat the game, but you are too refined, too civilized, and too successful in the real world IMO. Live poker is for degen misfit gamblers who for one reason or another just can't make it 9 to 5- it is not for doctors!

Please take ^^^ as a compliment, that's what it was intended to be.

Peace (and run good)

Hey DGAF, all is well with my crew, thanks. Everyone is happy and healthy.

I have run pretty bad live in my once monthly appearances and got oversetted in 2 of my last 3 trips so I was a little more cranky then usual and was pretty card dead when we sat. I appreciate the real life compliment and although I may have things a little more in line then the usual live degen, my competitive drive burns very intensely just like yours. I have a sick love for this game though and can virtually guarantee that I will be playing somewhere. If they pull my computer privileges I will have no problem making the transition back to live. I used to play 40 hour weekends at commerce and in general I am just a sicko when it comes to grinding and play more poker than my full time poker pro buddies despite the fact that I still have a real job. The hard part is jumping back and forth from online since there is just so little poker that is being played live and those of us that play 6-8 tables need that stimulus and metagame that is so lacking live. It is just really tough when you are thinking "ok, I folded last time he checkraised the flop, so this time I am going to do whatever" when you don't get checkraised by that guy for 4 sessions, if that, instead of 20 minutes later online.

You are likely right though in the fact that after a decent number of hours I will almost certainly just realize that taking that big an hourly hit from my real life is just not worth it. Regulate online ONE TIME!

For the record, I do admire your jovial presence in the games and agree it is something that makes you special. I apologize in advance for being a generally quite and polite presence in the games. It is just that I have to talk to people all day and dig into their lives so much that it is hard for me to do that at the table. If this cuts into my win rate a little that is fine since I just can't keep up that type of energy and banter. In fact, the talk at the local barn has been so retarded that I think I may have gotten HIV from just listening. The last session a guy showed his straight and the other guy has a set and is tanking on the turn. The whole table is talking about what they would do and what a great play the guy with a straight made since after the set guy folded they rabbit hunted and the board paired. All I could think was "wow, holy **** this is amazing. I hope every time I go into the tank you guys show me your cards too."

I guess my point here is that although I am not that young I do understand the hoodie and ipod wearing internet kids. Ipodding up is sometimes the only way to get through the day. The part that tilts me though is when the strat talk comes out at the table. I can't stand that. The funny thing though is that people just start to figure it out. It is so hard to play dumb and for some reason I get people like the gray haired lady whos husband plays (leaving names out) always seeking my approval and trying to get coaching if they sit near me long enough. I just try not to laugh or say "maybe you should start by looking into your coldcall of my UTG raise with K9." Haha. She has pointed out "the best players in the game" before and besides you I thought her list was super lol.

1. Walk into a Lexus dealership and buy a brand new car in 100 dollar bills.
2. Have your wife quit her job so she has no income + a lot more time to shop/spend.
3. Celebrate your first real taste of success (the first time you have 100k in a bank account or whatever) with lavish meals and entertainment and general spending- get used to those things and make them your SOP.
4. Don’t be proactive/responsible with your taxes, just wait as long as possible to file and pay. Then have your accountant tell you that you need to amend 4 previous years’ filings (to account for poker winnings) and that you also need to start paying quarterly estimates for the current year too.
5. Gift and then loan a bunch of cash to family and friends and then watch the economy die, making it impossible for them to pay you back.
6. Have poker/the stakes you are playing become so boring for you that can’t find your A-game hardly at all anymore, and then start feeding your gambling side by shipping draws without fe or calling with them without proper direct/implied odds. This isn’t enough to make you a losing player if you are good otherwise, but it’s def a leak.
7. Start staking losing players out of kindness/the desire for more action.
8. Start partaking in some fairly heavy neutral EV gambling (like props and sportsbetting without juice) and run straight awful.
9. Play some high stakes games that you are not a favorite in (200 400 lhe, 100 200 hu stud8, etc) just for fun, and run bad each time.
10. Have a kid- very expensive wrt insurance, medical bills, etc- obv incredibly worth it, but still very expensive.
11. Move to a place where you can’t commute to play the stakes/games you like--> start racking up those business/travel expenses.
12. Go through a 12-month stretch where your all in results are an estimated 100k+ below expectation.
13. Watch poker dry up right in front of your eyes.
14. Etc.

1. too stupid to buy a car
2. they both helped me spend an unbelievable amount
3. wait. you mean its not normal to spend 10k a month on food? and another 10 on drinks? i blame you =P
4. check. extension lasts until october.
5. check.
6. check.
7. not really. i just stick with #5.
8. check.
9. well I felt like a favorite in those games...=P but hu 3/6+ mix vs a guy whos big leak is starting hand selection works for me
10. i just spoiled myself, didnt even need a kid
11. i moved to that place. it was just in my head instead of real
12. not all in ev but i would kill to have only run 100k below expectation
13. check
14. check

Quote:

My friend/protégé (who has earned considerably less than me but has kept his expenses down and still has boxes full of cash at different casinos) says I MC Hammer’d my roll. To an extent, he’s right. And now he gets to play big when a good game pops up and I don’t (without selling action), and he’s the one I call if I ever need to borrow cash short-term because most of my boxes are empty. Now is that a tough pill to swallow???

check. but make it exgf/exprotege.

if ur the king of self destructive live poker/life decisions then im at least the duke if not the prince. after its all said and done i just hope that i can still always say that ive never run it twice. u should try to play The Small Game in the home of the old RPL once in a while. i unbarred myself yesterday, prolly gonna try to play once in a while.

id say ill be sad if you dont respond but ill txt u at some point to bother u today anyway if i remember

1. too stupid to buy a car
2. they both helped me spend an unbelievable amount
3. wait. you mean its not normal to spend 10k a month on food? and another 10 on drinks? i blame you =P
4. check. extension lasts until october.
5. check.
6. check.
7. not really. i just stick with #5.
8. check.
9. well I felt like a favorite in those games...=P but hu 3/6+ mix vs a guy whos big leak is starting hand selection works for me
10. i just spoiled myself, didnt even need a kid
11. i moved to that place. it was just in my head instead of real
12. not all in ev but i would kill to have only run 100k below expectation
13. check
14. check

check. but make it exgf/exprotege.

if ur the king of self destructive live poker/life decisions then im at least the duke if not the prince. after its all said and done i just hope that i can still always say that ive never run it twice. u should try to play The Small Game in the home of the old RPL once in a while. i unbarred myself yesterday, prolly gonna try to play once in a while.

id say ill be sad if you dont respond but ill txt u at some point to bother u today anyway if i remember

one day the AQdd will beat the J2hh on Q92dd 700+bb deep. maybe tmrw.

Lol, how many accounts do you have on here (pun intended obv). Congrats on successfully following the torch it all off blueprint I provided. It takes a very special person to be smart/lucky enough to run it up and at the same time dumb/unlucky enough to incinerate it all...

On a serious note, I really hope they start giving you the best hand again soon. You've done your time IMO. Also, I'm not drinking this year... But next year I'm up for all the shenanigans. Gl man.

Oh, and thanks for bringing up that AQ hand. You must have thought I was real spewy to get all that loot in with tptknfd... Until you saw his hand. Would have like to have won that one somehow, but sometimes you just get outplayed and there's nothing you can do about it.

Your philosophy of how a pro should act on and off the table, should be required reading for any non recreational player before sitting at a poker table, and has been a personal edict of mine since I started playing poker: Be nice, be entertaining, and do everything in your power to make the game an enjoyable experience - this keeps this game (i.e. your money making asset) alive and going. The pro's that don't get this are ultimately ensuring that the way they make their livelyhood will slowly but surely die, it's akin to constantly cutting your own salary on a regular basis (how dumb is that!!!)

Ever since this thread, I worked hard on being nicer, more fun, and more partying at the poker table. I dance to the music, drink if the drinks are free (and get everyone drinking with me), and try to make it a good time.

First huge payoff occurred for me last night. Stranded from going back to NJ, I wound up playing poker with an Israeli businessman named Guy in St. Louis. He was at the 1/3 game (biggest running at the time), had gotten lucky/deep, and was tilty/pissed at the Asian guy going to war with him. Anyways, I show up to the table, dance a bit with the pop-music, talk some friendly **** to a reg I know, play kinda loose, a bit gambly. Also, I have a very Jewish first name, and ask if he will be around for Shabbas...

Well, my new 'friend' Guy, turns out to be Guy Oseary: Madonna's manager/business partner. He offered me free tickets to join him for the concert tonight; so I'm off to go take my wife to party and see Madonna w/ Guy Oseary tonight (the tickets came through)....

All because I tried having more fun and making sure the people around me had more fun.

Take off the hoody. Take off the headsets. Order a drink! Being a fun/decent dude is massively +EV.

Not being more fun, in retrospect, was my biggest leak for the past 2-3 years, and I really had no fuqqing clue.

Ever since this thread, I worked hard on being nicer, more fun, and more partying at the poker table. I dance to the music, drink if the drinks are free (and get everyone drinking with me), and try to make it a good time.

First huge payoff occurred for me last night. Stranded from going back to NJ, I wound up playing poker with an Israeli businessman named Guy in St. Louis. He was at the 1/3 game (biggest running at the time), had gotten lucky/deep, and was tilty/pissed at the Asian guy going to war with him. Anyways, I show up to the table, dance a bit with the pop-music, talk some friendly **** to a reg I know, play kinda loose, a bit gambly. Also, I have a very Jewish first name, and ask if he will be around for Shabbas...

Well, my new 'friend' Guy, turns out to be Guy Oseary: Madonna's manager/business partner. He offered me free tickets to join him for the concert tonight; so I'm off to go take my wife to party and see Madonna w/ Guy Oseary tonight (the tickets came through)....

All because I tried having more fun and making sure the people around me had more fun.

Take off the hoody. Take off the headsets. Order a drink! Being a fun/decent dude is massively +EV.

Not being more fun, in retrospect, was my biggest leak for the past 2-3 years, and I really had no fuqqing clue.

Wow, do you literally dance at the table??? I would never try it cuz dancing is my biggest fear in life for some reason, but I can imagine if done right/funny it would be pretty amazing for the vibe. I just usually offer a friendly face and hopefully some halfway stimulating conversation. Sometimes I go farther (switching cards dark, running a board twice but only counting the second board, letting someone "lower" my raise by a few chips, jaeger bombs, props, flips, etc, etc), but never dancing.

I'm glad my 2k thread rubbed off on you positively. It was my hope that it would make live poker better and more enjoyable to some tiny degree, somewhere...

And I dance at the table; generally just an upper-body gig, as I'm in the seat. Works well to further my image as a drunken madman to some people. I often request that people who go all in with me dance a bit with me; which gets some laughs. I'm a 6'4 250-290 pound dude, so my physical actions are very noticable. Its also funny because people try to read it in hands, and if you're good at knowing reverse tells, its a nice bonus tool.

I do my best to be very talkative/friendly at the table but I feel like it actually costs me in terms of winrate because I miss table action etc...

How do you over come this? When I'm running bad sometimes I just want to bring the hoodie/glasses/headphones out and go into my own world and play as technically good as I can. Makes sense right?

I pretty much talk to everyone (except douchy wannabe pros) at the table. I def miss action all the time, sometimes even when I'm in the hand. Doesn't matter though, the positives absolutely thrash the negatives imo...

Here are 5 reasons why I talk at the table:

1, which I value above all else, it makes my time at the table stimulating/bearable- if not always fun. Just like I would talk to the people around me if I were somehow in a really long line for a Lakers game or something. Otherwise it's just a really slow torture- worse than a 9-5 imo.

2, it gets everyone else talking (or at least listening). And now we are all multi-tasking and slightly distracted from the job at hand. And I like my chances of continuing to walk in a straight line once gum chewing is introduced a lot more than someone who isn't an expert walker or who hasn't done both things simultaneously a zillion times.

3, it gets people gambling... Which craps table do you think has more chips being dropped on it, the one where people are being loud and having a good time, or the one where no one is saying a word?

4, it adds another layer to the game. You can make much better decisions vs vocal opponents than you can vs silent opponents imo. And you then can also use to your advantage what you think your opponents are deducing from what you are saying, how you are saying it, etc. Edge/meta available goes up a lot imo, and I’m a people reader/tricker first, nl fundamentalist second.

5, it earns you long-term action with the recreational players. Ex: an older rec player who I had played 5-10 with a couple times and thought I was funny or nice or whatever, recently saw me playing 20-40. I made eye contact with him when he walked by and upon seeing my friendly face, he took a seat (I’m 80% sure me being in the game is why he gave it a shot). I immediately welcomed him with some light table talk/jokes and tried to make him feel at ease (I know how apprehensive people can get when they see different colored chips, ipads, backpacks, smart looking kids, etc). Anyways, he ran like god and won like 12k or something...

The next time I saw this guy, he took a seat in my 10-20 game. Due to his unfamiliarity with posting and time collection, I'm pretty sure these were the first two times he had played higher than 5-10. He didn't run so hot this time, and I kind of abused him relentlessly in hands since I had position and a stone cold read on him. I also had some pretty fun(ny) verbal back and forth with him the entire time…

After he busted his 4th 1k buyin or whatever and was about to leave, he looked around (I wasn't the only one being social, the whole table was engaged) and kind of said “**** it” and reloaded for 8k. He bluffed that 8k off to me in a hand no more than 5 minutes later, possibly in the worst way I have ever seen. Then he got up, no hard feelings at all, said “nice hand” and walked off..

---

But yeah, occasionally when the game is ****, or I feel like ****, or I’m running or playing like ****, I’ll pull up the hoodie and go 2 earphones for a while. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that.

Great thread, thanks for posting. I'm certain we've played before and I've deduced who you may be down to 3 players... still no hero calls yet.

Question from a tax and convenience perspective: Do you prefer using cash boxes or player bank, and if so why?

No need to hero call. I'm a nit now.

I can't think of one reason to choose player bank. Are they even insured lol? Do you have access to your account info/do you get detailed statements like you do with real banks? I had one a while ago until an accounting mistake was made in the casino's favor for like 2k that would have gone unnoticed had I not figured it out. Since then, I've become a pretty big fan of SDB's.

If somebody is a huge douchbebag at the table, and lets say they are "good", do you just completely ignore them? There is this one guy who constantly talks strat at the table and he knows I detest him and he and his "crew" definitely don't like me.

I am in the middle of a pretty decent break even stretch/DS and at this point I am just focusing on playing better so I am probably going into hoodie/glasses/headphones mode until I start playing better, however I do try to be talkative and friendly at the table.

If somebody is a huge douchbebag at the table, and lets say they are "good", do you just completely ignore them? There is this one guy who constantly talks strat at the table and he knows I detest him and he and his "crew" definitely don't like me.

I am in the middle of a pretty decent break even stretch/DS and at this point I am just focusing on playing better so I am probably going into hoodie/glasses/headphones mode until I start playing better, however I do try to be talkative and friendly at the table.

While hoodie, sunglasses and headphones isn't good for the vibe, it doesn't even compare to being a dick/angle shooting/hitting and running/killing a group straddle/etc. As long as you aren't doing those things- and you are polite/not smug when you do have to interact, you are fine. I'd really suggest using the earphones that go in your ear though- they are so much better to look at than headphones. And then when things do turn around for you a bit, maybe then start contributing to the vibe more IMO.

If someone is a douchebag and/or talks strat constantly he isn't a real pro. I won't give someone like this the time of day (whereas I will literally give it to everyone else). Sometimes I'll be a vigilante and make it a point to destroy this person in hands or with words, but he will not get my attention otherwise.

Being outnumbered by a lol wannabe crew sucks. That's another reason why you should form as many alliances as possible in casinos. Regardless, when facing one of these crews at a table, I will often just pick up because I know I'm going to be too tilted to play. Or if the leader is ridic deep, I will maybe add on and make him want to leave. And of course if all else fails, challenging everyone to hu for higher stakes (and being serious and binding) usually gets people to stfu really fast lol. Most of these guys don't have much heart/gamble when it comes right down to it.