I wasn’t criticizing Isiah in particular. “If you see a potential defensive stopper and legit starter, you take him,” describes Rondo pretty well to me.
He might not have lived up to the hype he had coming out of Oak Hill, but his talents–and weaknesses–were pretty obvious.
As far as the Knicks’ pick, if Isiah was looking for a stopper and potential starter Rondo would have been a good choice. However, I think that as usual he was drafting to look smarter than everyone else and for need. Just as he tripled up with James, Frye, and Curry when he “needed” a center, he doubled up with Balkman and Jeffries when he “needed” a defensive stopper at the 3.

The difference isn’t really between the guards, because he apparently thought Balkman was gone to the Suns if he didn’t pick him. Although, he could have picked Balkman and then tried to outbid the Celtics for the Suns’ pick (using the pick that ended up being Collins in some sort of 3-way or unofficial 3-way if necessary). It has always fascinated me that the Knicks throw so much money around but never buy the Suns (or anyone else’s) draft picks.

I’m more apt to criticize Isiah for taking Balkman over Rondo than Frye over Bynum, because I think Rondo was an obvious choice (if not Marcus Williams) while, as you say, Bynum was a total wildcard. Given the number of workout warriors and bigman busts I would probably have been against picking Bynum (and obviously incorrect). I think it’s a credit to Isiah’s eye for talent that he pretty much hinted he would have taken Bynum except he thought the kid wasn’t ready for the NYC spotlight, which really meant he was being impatient and wanted an immediate impact. If Isiah could have gotten out of his own way, I think he would have taken Bynum (and concentrated on drafting rather than wasting money and high draft picks, in general, leaving the Knicks in a much better position).

Owen,

I don’t think the Frye over Bynum decision came down to Curry. As I remember, he was still a free agent and Jerome James had just been signed.

]]>By: Owenhttp://KnickerBlogger.Net/knicks-2009-season-preview-part-ii/#comment-269036
Sun, 26 Oct 2008 18:19:30 +0000http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=908#comment-269036Dave C – Rondo has been pretty much exactly the same player in the pros that he was in college. His assist averages and fg% last year were almost identical to what he posted his second year in college. Win Score had him rated as the sixth best player in college, basically because of his extraordinary ability to dominate possession from the point guard position with a fairly unique combination of steals, turnovers, and rebounding. He still has no offensive game but nonetheless is easily a top 15 point guard in the NBA.

What can you say about Bynum? He didn’t play in college, so you basically had to judge him on measurables and visuals only. Frye had good stats in college, i think he averaged two blocks per game. It’s an excusable mistake. What’s galling though is the thought that Isiah passed on Bynum because he felt that Curry was going to be our center for many years to come. Perhaps the same thought process with Marbury led Isiah to pass on Rondo.

I hadn’t seen him much before the draft, but even at that time I think it was fair to say that’s exactly what Rondo was. He was regarded as the best backcourt defender in the draft, and some mock drafts had him going as high as #5. He was raw but his defensive talent and quickness were obvious: I think it’s fair to rip the decision makers who passed on him.

Thing is Ted, Rondo was a HORRIBLE offensive player on a horrible offensive team at Kentucky. Some of the hype about him going in the top 5 was based on what he did in high school. Although Rondo was an amazing defender at Kentucky–on a team full of guys that could get in your shirt he stood out–he was generally considered a disappointment there. They thought they were getting the next Jason Kidd, such was the hype surrounding him coming out of high school. It became obvious his jump shot needed complete reconstructing, but then he never made the expected impact as a playmaker either. (We now know that much of that was because he was surrounded by scrubs offensively.) It’s hardly as if the Celts thought they were getting what they got, given that Rondo was added to a gaggle of other PGs. The Celts made a nice pick AND they got really lucky. That happens, just not to us it seems.

My suspicion is that Thomas saw Rondo and Collins as comparable but favored Collins’ size and versatility. Of all of Isiah’s swings and misses this is among the most understandable, given his philosophical preference for combo guards over true PGs. So the criticism there is philosophical then if you’re gonna say he should have taken a different guard. He chose the only “true” combo guard between the three.

Passing on Bynum was unfortunate, but I think you have to account for risk. I hardly want to take the position of defending Isiah, but I doubt the GMs who passed on Bynum failed to see his talent. My understanding is that he absolutely wowed in his workouts. But the risk was about his clock. How quickly would he mature? The fact that Bynum has matured so smoothly and quickly has obscured how big a gamble that really is when thinking about taking a young big man. As we constantly discuss in this forum, the NBA woods are filled with young big men who never develop for reasons that simply aren’t obvious when you draft. (Curry and Darko should be better but they aren’t.) Bynum’s maturation–not just his talent–is really the exception. This isn’t Yao Ming or Gasol, coming to the league with tons of international experience. A more normal maturation curve would probably have us predicting a breakout year for Bynum this year but he’s already a star.

The impact of not taking Bynum is bigger than I care to think about but that sort of pick is the equivalent of taking a quarterback with a top 5 or 10 pick. If that guy doesn’t develop–and quickly–you’ll be looking for a job.

]]>By: Ted Nelsonhttp://KnickerBlogger.Net/knicks-2009-season-preview-part-ii/#comment-269018
Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:54:11 +0000http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=908#comment-269018“Bynum was the best player in the draft so nine other teams whiffed, too. No one had him going top-10.”

I sort of doubt Utah and New Orleans are regretting their picks…
To Isiah’s credit, he did consider Bynum at #7 but his impatience once again got the better of him.

“if you see a potential defensive stopper and legit starter, you take him.”

I hadn’t seen him much before the draft, but even at that time I think it was fair to say that’s exactly what Rondo was. He was regarded as the best backcourt defender in the draft, and some mock drafts had him going as high as #5. He was raw but his defensive talent and quickness were obvious: I think it’s fair to rip the decision makers who passed on him.
If Joel Freeland had magically turned into the next Dirk they get a free pass for missing that one, but Rondo went to Kentucky. Not exactly out off the scouts’ radars.
I’ve seen a youtube clip of Bryan Colangelo calling every GM with a pick during the draft and saying he wants to trade for their pick to get a PG. He never says which one he wants, but given his track record I wouldn’t be suprised if it was Rondo.

Ben R,

Basketball IQ has always been Mardy’s perceived strength, maybe you’re right and he’s experienced enough now to use it on the court.

]]>By: Ben Rhttp://KnickerBlogger.Net/knicks-2009-season-preview-part-ii/#comment-269004
Sun, 26 Oct 2008 02:48:03 +0000http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=908#comment-269004Owen – I am encouraged by Mardy’s performance as well. I agree with Thomas B that Collins is not a PG, and he does seem better suited to play off the ball. He seems very comfotable as the 4th/5th option on the floor. I do not think he has the talent or confidence to be a primary ball handler or scorer, but he seems to realize that.

As for his three point shooting he has hit all five of his 3pt attempts in preseason. I know he is still not a great shooter but on all five of those shots he was wide open, he should be able to maintain a high percentage if he continues to only shoot when wide open. He seems to really understand his shortcomings and is only shooting when he is open and only attacking the basket when he has an open lane. If he continues to be as selective of his shots I do not see why him maintaining a high level of efficiency is out of the question. I do not expect the 17.8 pts per 36, 72.7% TS% or 100% 3pt% to continue but I do not see why something along the lines of 10-12 pts per 36 with 55-60% TS% and 35-40% 3pt% is out of the question if he continues to display the same good judgement.

I feel like a bad person but when Gus said Q was in the locker room with a hurt knee I was happy and part of me was hopeing he would need surgery.

]]>By: calebhttp://KnickerBlogger.Net/knicks-2009-season-preview-part-ii/#comment-269000
Sun, 26 Oct 2008 00:36:28 +0000http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=908#comment-269000Bynum was the best player in the draft so nine other teams whiffed, too. No one had him going top-10.

Balkman v. Rondo — sure, in hindsight we know the better player. But Balkman is still one of the 12 or 15 best players in that draft (I know some people laugh), and we got him at 20, so I can’t knock the pick. Maybe we’d have gotten him at 29, but in the 20s you’re looking at end of the rotation guys anyway — if you see a potential defensive stopper and legit starter, you take him.

]]>By: Rayhttp://KnickerBlogger.Net/knicks-2009-season-preview-part-ii/#comment-268995
Sat, 25 Oct 2008 22:52:29 +0000http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=908#comment-268995I always knew Nate had it in him to put up nice numbers. He just has to stay under control. I cant wait to see Gallo play. Its just going to add a little something different to the bench. I hope to god they dont cut Jr. Hes is what the garden needs right now. The boy makes plays.
]]>By: Gorkyhttp://KnickerBlogger.Net/knicks-2009-season-preview-part-ii/#comment-268992
Sat, 25 Oct 2008 21:22:40 +0000http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=908#comment-268992

]]>By: AlbanyKnickshttp://KnickerBlogger.Net/knicks-2009-season-preview-part-ii/#comment-268990
Sat, 25 Oct 2008 20:49:15 +0000http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=908#comment-268990I added up the pre-season +/- stats. Here is what I came up with.
Player Total
Chandler 15
Collins 38
Crawford -42
Curry -5
Duhon -19
Ewing 10
Gallinari
James
Jeffries
Lee -53
Marbury 48
Randolph -24
Richardson-54
Roberson 8
Robinson 29
Rose 49
]]>By: Owenhttp://KnickerBlogger.Net/knicks-2009-season-preview-part-ii/#comment-268980
Sat, 25 Oct 2008 19:48:11 +0000http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=908#comment-268980Jon – You are absolutely right. I had forgotten about Frye/Bynum. I think Bynum will emerge in the next two years as one of the top 3 centers in the league. It really is sad.