i take 1mg of clonazepam 3 times a day and im thinking about switching to diazepam b/c it lasts longer ( maybe id only take it twice a day or once a day, depending on dosage ) and to see if it helps more, but .... it seems like 20mgs of vallium is about equal to 1mg of klonopin to me... am i off?

how much vallium would i want to switch to and how often a day would i take it?

would i go to like.. 10mgs, 3 times daily? or is that dose too low compared to what im used to taking?

i need to know exactly what to say to my doc to seem confident so i can get it, so advice would be helpfull. even going to a higher dose of benzos would be good for me.

and to anyone whos gonna say "dude, do CBT for anxiety" or "get over anxiety without benzos", go fuck off. im already a benzo addict and i enjoy being one. i havnt gained a tolerence to its medicinal effect. i just dont wanna hear people telling me i shouldnt be taking benzos.

i looked up a little bit and a rough conversion seems to be 10mgs of vallium = 1mg of clonazepam, would that mean i could get away with tryin got get prescribed 10mgs of vallium 3 times a day? or 20mgs twice a day?

(note: i do not have much experience with vallium itself, but i can eat 20+mgs of xanax or klonopin and not feel a thing but "normal" )

diazepam doesn't last longer, the length of the half life is not the same as the duration of noticeable affect. i think diazepam may actually be classified as a short acting benzo despite the half life can be 200 hours. when you think about that, it means that if you took 40 mg of diazepam than several days later youd still be under the influence of 20 mg but that is not how it works at all. the drug still may be in your body but it loses most of its action fairly quickly.

Originally Posted by moeron69

Where did you get that information? Isn't clonazepam's half-life longer than diazepam's?

no diazepam's half life is longer but i think clonazepam has a longer duration of action. i personally would prefer clonazepam to diazepam for daily anxiety management.

thanks. iwont try and switch it then. i knew when ive done vallium before it sure as hell didnt seem to last 200 hours or as long as clonazepam, but i dunno. thanks for clearing it up. im pretty sure the klonopins duration of action on me is roughly 7 hours to a day or something now. i dont know. i dont feel my 1mgs. i dont feel 10mgs. i barely feel 20. and i start getting buzzed at 30

Clonazepam (napalm I call it) Half life is 16+ hours. I know diazepam is much less and is weaker. I live on napalm basically since I take it to sleep 1-2mg at I would feel chilled for the rest of the day. What that basically means is that clonazepam could be less addictive easier comedown. I also believe the drugs act in a different ways.

IMO Clonazepam is one of the best Benzo's around.
Ive tried
Diazepam (valium)
Lorazepam (ativan)
Alprazolam (xanax)
and basically every other Benzo including Rophygnol and all the others too many to mention.

It lasts long no hard comedown. No hard rush or high. Dosent work against your sleep like Ive seen Ambien do.

The only problem ive noticed with clonazepam more than some of the others is the memory loss.

i am on 30mg diazepam daily - and i am slowly switching to clonazepam - with the maximum legal dosage a GP can prescribe diazepam to you - it will not even be half as much as what you will crave for daily in a few months.

I am on 450 buproprion when i wake - so i will rather than be anxiety free than sedated on a rollercoster diazepam craving day - i stongly think i will prefer the strong anxiolytic effects of the clonazepam. I must say i have only taken clonazepam twice for now ! But its appeal is instant ! I cant wait to change! Also at the maximum legal dosage a GP can prescribe - the eqivalent maximum doseage a GP can prescribe of clonazepam is like 6-8 to 1 max equivalent dose! If we use wiki's 20 to 1 conversion!

diazepam doesn't last longer, the length of the half life is not the same as the duration of noticeable affect. [...] no diazepam's half life is longer but i think clonazepam has a longer duration of action.

I agree with that, Diazepam has a longer half-life because of its main metabolite, Nordiazepam. But with even a low to moderate tolerance, you don't feel the metabolite, and only feel the Diazepam, which is very short-acting.

CLonazepam's subjective effects last much longer.

Originally Posted by thesean001

i take 1mg of clonazepam 3 times a day and im thinking about switching to diazepam [....] how much vallium would i want to switch to and how often a day would i take it?
[...]would i go to like.. 10mgs, 3 times daily? or is that dose too low compared to what im used to taking?

If you take 3mg Clonazepam a day, I think you would need something 60mg Diazepam to get the same effects... That's a lot, many doctors won't prescribe that much.
(for me the exact conversion is 0,5mg clonazepam = 10mg diazepam)

Originally Posted by thesean001

i need to know exactly what to say to my doc to seem confident so i can get it, so advice would be helpfull.

Say to your doc that you want to switch to Diazepam because it has a longer half life, and because then you would only need to twice a day instead of 3x a day.
Your doctor will agree, because it seems like a very reasonable argument.
I think he will prescibed you 30mg-40mg Diazepam. (But I think that asking for 60mg Diazepam will be too much.)

I think that for therapeuthic AND recreational use, 3mg Clonazepam is MUCH better than 40mg Diazepam.

i think jasoncrest has covered most bases - Though i may not fully understand him.

I just want to say the same : Quote:
"
I think that for therapeuthic AND recreational use, 3mg Clonazepam is MUCH better than 40mg Diazepam.

So do the switch only if you're sure you can get 60mg Diazepam.
"

I agree - any-less (dose to 60mg) and you will be on a diazepam craving very soon - basically a seadtion rollercoster ride - eventually - it becomes tiresome !!

When i got it prescribed many months ago - i thought i was on top of the world - And it is fun - But u let so much slide - and become so unaware of so many things - that anxiety relief for me at the moment Seems to me more important than the Sedative effects of Diazepam.

i think jasoncrest has covered most bases - Though i may not fully understand him.

Sorry. I always try to be as clear as possible, but english is not my native language, and it was taught to me only through movies and music (school helped a bit too). And when I'm high, it can be sometimes very hard for me to be understandable for english speaking persons..

1st - i said: Quote:
"
Also at the maximum legal dosage a GP can prescribe - the eqivalent maximum doseage a GP can prescribe of clonazepam is like 6-8 to 1 max equivalent dose! (edit: of Diazepam) If we use wiki's 20 to 1 conversion!
"
I must say - This i have found - to be true for the diagnosis of epilepsy or similar affliction.

For Panic disorders or anxiety it would be half that 2.5-3-4 roughly....... Though the 2 drugs effects are totally different.

2nd - jasoncrest sorry dude if i gave u the impression - i did not understand u because of your language skills - it is simply that - i am not at your level of understanding yet - and also i am new to many frequently used terminology.

For me your english was definetely not an issue!!!!

Also pls dont respond further (if u you so wish) to this issue - cause it Is Not An Issue Definetely !!

I choose second option - 2 hours after 1mg - i could hardly feel a thing - though i was very calm. But 2 hours later - Is when i suddenly noticed that i really was in a good situation / place - i felt no anxiety or fears!!

You know what i was hyping the arrival of the 2 hours (1mg Clon) to arrive at peak plasma levels (according to wiki: And which to me means - top / hight of effect) that - that in itself made me anxious and distracted - rather than cool and collected ! As happened 2 hours later !!

Ill be on this regimen for 2 more days then i substitute - morning 10mg dose Dia for 0.5mg Clon !!

I also took - option 2 because i did not want to get (edit: rid) of Dia in just 7 days - id much rater do it at 13 days !! - I think i may have been felling a bit of withdrawal symptoms (ocationally a brief - slight depression !) - Also - i will end up at double the Dia Equivalent dose by day 18 !! -

I post my feeling here !!

After all the thread is titled:
"clonazepam to diazepam conversion"

I'll give u my 2 cents. (even if we consider i do take 450mg bupropion as soon as i wake !)

Personally ive always found clonazepam to be a better benzo for anxiety then diazepam. Im on a pretty high dose of clonazepam 2mg's 3 times a day which would equal either 60 or 120mg's of diazepam going by different benzo charts.

Ive never seen anyone get 120mg's of diazepam prescribed to them daily as thats 12 10mg pill's but 6mg's of clonazepam is not that unusual. In fact the maximum dose for clonazepam according to rxlist.com is 20mg's a day. But id say that dose is mostly for epileptics or people suffering from mania.

My doc says i can take more clonazepam if im manic to help calm me down which it usually does. Sometimes ive taken up to 14mg's in one night just to stop my thoughts from racing over.

Psychobone you take 450mg's of buproprion as soon as you wake up. Thats a pretty high dose most people only go to 300mg's a day.

Ive just started back on bupropion myself at 150mg's first. It's my 4th day in. Hows it working for you?

edit: sorry paranoid android - just realized your question above - so ill answer here:
quote:
"Psychobone you take 450mg's of buproprion as soon as you wake up. Thats a pretty high dose most people only go to 300mg's a day.
Ive just started back on bupropion myself at 150mg's first. It's my 4th day in. Hows it working for you?"

It is perfectomundo - for me - it boosts my dopamine by a fairly good amount - which is what my olanzapine (atypical antipsychotic) lowers - so now i lower my dopamine at night - and increase it to (imo) a normal level for the day!! - Before i spent close to 2 years as a zombie - my car broke down and i hardly left my house for 1 1/2 months - then i got out to fix it - it was my only distraction !! I would not give a f**k about anything - or anyone - myself included. -

But since then - i got 300mg prescribed from my Good GP - went to hospital to get it on government prescription (got it) - i paid 2.50&#163; rather than 60+&#163;
Then i got a letter from my GP for my psychiatrist - same as the one at my intern asylum (see below later) he signed every thing off - paid by the government - except 30mg diazepam - he said he was glad i was on it - but approved everything else - now i have to go on the 5th on June to get it increased by the government to 450mg (cause my GP has approved - given me subsciption for 450 and Clonazepam) also i need to get clonazepam paid by government. Fingers crossed !! I also argued - weight issue - and i have lost like 7kg in 3weeks - But.....

When i asked for Buropion - He looked in his book and said it was not compatible - with olanzapine (the most important) - but i took so much evidence and case studies - regarding beneficial weight loss / antidepessant effects - Basically that it was common for both to be prescribed - he said to me do u feel better on it (also in GP's Letter - "great improvment") - that he aggreed - WoW he was human !!

Basically illegal drugs give euphoria and energising effect by increasing production of dopamine (and norepinephrine i believe) - So i knew it would give me a strong anti depresant effect !! - It has changed my life - ie. I go out every day - i take care of my apperance - and i have begun working also !! (You will (imo) get same effects as amphetamine except the euforia and enrgising effects) But it has definetely changed and lifted my life.

Also before bupropion - for 2 months i was sleeping 16Hours+, 4 days a week - so basically i was 1 day awake - and next day sleep a lot and so on !! All that has now changed !!

But also - for some amphetamine can get u paranoid - perhaps from being to aware - but i believe this is much reduced with bupropion and clonazepam - but the effect is still there and it can occur !!

Finnish edit.

Dear paranoid android what u say is true from my research!

And "no-one" (though there may be some occasions - but i would believe there to be better alternatives anyway) would get an equivalent dose of diazepam - namely 120mg daily dose.

I feel some of your symptoms - akin (similar) to some of mine !! Especially where u say your thoughts racing over !! - This is what many years ago got me paranoid / delusional basically - and got me on my first internment in an asylem for 3-4 days and on the worst drug for me Risperidone - I never achieved peace of mind !! - and 2-3 years later - Completely lost it !! - Due In My Honest Opinion (imho) to an alergic effect to Risperidone an atypical antipsychotic. Cause during my second long internment (when i completely lost it) I was interned for 2 1/2 - 3 months - And the "hospitals" / psychiatrists solution was to increase the Risperidone dosage - till one day at 4mg i had a clear allergic reaction.

Also - Dont let any s**t head pigion hole psychiatrist tell u what u got if u are sure it is wrong..... Cause he never mentioned my diagnosis .... After i told him how perjudicial to my psych the label would be..... But i suspect schzoph........ i cannot even say it !

Anyway i have been paranoid and delusional free for 2 years - And got my GP to get him not to Pigion Hole me - I am _psychoBone_ (my real name) and suggested Stmulant Psychosis - which i researched on my own and i am cirtain that was the reason 1st time and partly in second episode together with my allegic reaction mainly!!

But i must say - "Thoughts racing over" - is the main root of all my psy history ! - It was the catalist - that led me to where i am today !!

A spiral - which can - under cirtain circumstances - like heavy drug abuse or not (insert your own cause here) - lead to a psychotic experience !!

Ive been having alot of problems lately myself. Last week i had a manic episode that lasted around 3 days. At the end of it i was having mild auditory hallucinations which ive never had before. This could have been due to lack of sleep or the mania itself im not sure which.

Anyway ya ive grown to hate psychiatrists as well. Mine just dumped me right out of the blue and told my GP that i had cyclothymia. Which i definitely dont fit due to major depressive episodes and those godforsaken mixed states that i get. I had one a few days ago so bad that i punched my fist against a steel door until i wore myself out.

Now im majorly depressed and sleeping all the time but i can feel the bupropion working today oddly enough. Hopefully it will pull me out of this depression totally without sending me into another mania.

Ive been on it before with no problems so im hoping the same will happen this time.

Sorry about your last week!! Bupropion is what changed my life - i was fairly sure you were on it to !! I take 450mg bupropion under brand Zyban - prolonged release film coated tablets (it says on box)!! Though i take them for depression rather than as an aid to stop smoking - of course !!

I cant really comment on the Pharmacokinetics (ie. Quote wiki: "The process by which a drug is absorbed, distributed, metabolized, and eliminated by the body")

But as a previous amphetamine user - i knew this would be great for me - I always had a good time on it !! But for me bupropion (a few days ago - before i started clonazepam) is more like the feeling i would get before i actually took amphetamine - the onset of effects - even before i took the drug also a kind of "heavy butterflies" in the gut feeling - but no euphoria and no great adrenaline boost ! - That is how i would decribe my feeling after taking bupropion !! But It does curb my hunger to a Great Degree !! And gives me a lifting effect !!

However since i have began taking clonazepam this effect of "butterflies" is becoming less and less apparant - and less of a disturbance - cause it can last all day - And u feel like damn - i want the rush not the foreplay !

Since u take a heavy clonazepam dose - u probably dont even feel this effect anymore - or have become tolerant to it !!

IMHO - try and believe in the power of bupropion as one of the better antidepressants u can take - and feel good about taking it !! This belief in the drug may cascade into a positive outlook upon many other aspects of your life !!

But - i think the Bupropion - triggers internal chatter - whereas the clonazepam - cancells that out - and clears the mind !!

From my experience if u tell u psychiatrist that you are having auditory hallucinations - you will imo be diagnosed as schzoph...... (you know) perhaps not - But i have had Exactely the same auditory feeling ("but" from external sources) - and what helped me from a previous experience with a sports psychologist (as part of my previous job as a trainee trader) was that we all have an internal voice - and thus internal chatter !! So this is how i explained it to my psychiatrist !!

An intern with me came out of a meeting with this psychiatrist - and said to me "I am schizophrenic" - I blew my top - He told the doctor he heard "voices telling him to burn his house" and he tried !!

But that could be caused by many reasons - and does not mean he is a schizophrenic - i told him not to label himself as one - as you are what you think you are !! 90% of reality is perception - but the psychiatrist had to disregard this because he needed a reason to justify his treatment !! - And by having a 15 min talk with patients once a week - how could he dare reach this diagnosis !!
---more on this later!!

This internal chatter - has been a problem for me since day1 (ie the catalist to all my "psycological problems") - And i believe the clonazepam helps this a lot !!

If you can find inner peace through the realization / control of your internal voice / chatter - I am sure you will only get better !!

Ill end this post here - But i will repost below - and pick your and my brain - heck perhaps even the reader!!

There was one person ("savant" / Genius) at mathematics - for him he could see numbers as 3 Dimensional shapes........ He recalled pi (Quote anon: "......, it is the 16th letter of the Greek alphabet, which is used to represent the number 3.14159265 (ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter)" to 10,000 decimal places.

For him it was like a landscape - which he could walk through - just as u can recall the streets on your way to work !

Then he was given a 2 digit number which he had to raise to its power - so 12 to the power of 12 = 12 * 12 * 12 * 12 * 12 * 12 * 12 * 12 * 12 * 12 * 12 * 12 .
So imagine somefigure like 63.

Anyway from his visual recall the calculations of these numbers would combine and coalese into an answer - he did most calulations within 30 seconds.

He also learned rudimentary islandic (one of the Hardest languages to learn) in one week and had a TV interview - in which he could follow and reply to a simple conversation.

"They believed his brain had connections between his visual and say logic centers" - Dont quote me on this - But u get the metaphor.

The brain can make rare connections - which most of the population dont make !!

Towards the end of my second episode - I became an excelent scolar of human behaviour / body language !! - And when i saw another person react i would internally chatter this reaction to myself !! - Which made me feel uncomfortable - Thus making me react - or jerk !! - As i slowly stoped (and still stopping) this internal chatter - my feeling is more relaxed and i dont react so much. So My Internal Voice - is what would trigger my panic / reaction / jerk !!

For some ignorance is bliss - myself included !! - Perhaps before my 1st episode !!

So this internal voice - could go into a myriad of searching for an answer to a reaction / event we had seen !! - To the Point we could interpret it as an Internal / external Voice !! Be we correct or incorrect !! Which can and does lead to more chatter - bad feelings and such !!

75% of what u say is body language.
20% is tone of voice.
5% is the words u speak.

So for some patients with problems - IMHO i believe this to be the case for many of them. I dont say they dont need medication - But i do say this could be a reason for a misdiagnosis !! They may well be percieving the lies - and hypocrecy of our reality - which the doctor may not percieve !!

And to trip your mind - if we get metaphisical - we could take the percentages above to its same power - for some who are more atune than others.

This is how i think of my problem - It helps me a lot - From what i have been through and from my experiences - i am either a late (but very quick / superior (perhaps)) learner. - Or an early / rare case. Either way - At least you can infer that Oneself is actually sane !!

They just need the appropriate medication - to help them through this phase !!

Ill finnish with a lyric from NaS: "Let There Be Light":

"...after 4 years in the game - we can have a conversation - 8 years in the game ill invite you on vacation - 10 years in the game - after i have enjoyed my fame - only then will i let u pick my brain !!"

paranoid android to your question - i missed i have edited post 15 - to question:
Quote:
"Psychobone you take 450mg's of buproprion as soon as you wake up. Thats a pretty high dose most people only go to 300mg's a day.
Ive just started back on bupropion myself at 150mg's first. It's my 4th day in. Hows it working for you?"

Sorry i am very long winded !! - But that is my reply on post 15 in this thread - basically very good and beneficial - Hey It has transformed my life !!

This is the Quote i should have picked: Same song Nas: "Let there Be Light"*
Quote:

"
[Chorus: Tre Williams]
As I walk through the shadow of death
I know that I ain't got much time left
And they don't really wanna see the good in me
Ain't satisfied until they see the fool in me
"
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dam (insert violation here) !!

Any way i went to work this morning 09:20 - (450mg bupropion / 1mg clonazepam @08:00) - 3 hours work - now 15:38 - And i am as high as a MF'er (i Know from my Trip in my car home - hahahahahaaaaaa ! - i amused my-self lets say !) - I got rest of day off !! - But still got 2 10mg doses diazepam !! - Damn i want clonazepam !!

Well the auditory hallucinations i had consisted of basically just banging noises and things like that. It reminded me of the time when i was really young and stupid enough to try and get high from dimenhydrinate. Though it wasn't that bad.

It was those kinds of noises except i knew the noises where not real. Also there where no voices or any chatter at all just banging noises.

I dont know it could have been just lack of sleep maybe or my mania getting worse. Im not on any mood stabilizers now or any anti-psychotics so it will no doubt get worse. They say if you leave it untreated that it can get worse and will be harder to treat.

The only problem is i cant get into see another shrink for about 7 months thanks to canadas wonderful mental health system. So i will have to deal with a GP and i know he will put me back on the seroquel which was working fine before. I might give lithium a try as well.

Lithium from what i have read - Ie Wiki : Quote:
"
Medical Use
Main article: Lithium pharmacology
Lithium salts such as lithium carbonate (Li2CO3), lithium citrate, and lithium orotate are mood stabilizers. They are used in the treatment of bipolar disorder, since unlike most other mood altering drugs, they counteract both mania and depression. Lithium can also be used to augment other antidepressant drugs. It is also sometimes prescribed as a preventive treatment for migraine disease and cluster headaches.
"
seems to be very beneficial - from the very little that i have read together with
Seroquel or (Quetiapine) is an (Quote:Wiki )

"Antipsychotic are also referred to as neuroleptic drugs, or simply neuroleptics. The word neuroleptic is derived from Greek; neuro refers to the nerves and lept means "to take hold of". Thus the word means "taking hold of one's nerves".

I believe that "You" believe you need this - But what i dont understand is why "you are not on them !!" - and how they could take you off them. It should be done slowly and analysing the results to your health on every decrease of dosage!

I believe u may need this - today after my wild foolish ride in my car - i immediatelly took my Olanzapine and amitriptyline! 22:00 - the earliest time in months!! - Also every night before i take my Olanzapine and amitriptyline i look in the bathroom mirror and see my quite - to moderately dilated pupils - so i believe i may be in a good place !

Hey in my foolish opinion - go for broke and take no prisoners - Get your seroquel and lithium asap - But i have a feeling - you may turn (if on a highly likely, high dose) become what i was - a walking "zombie" -

OK - No mania would really really help u ! - But think of the cost during waking hours - of low (to very low) dopamine levels !

So go for broke and get evidence of a drug u have used and enjoyed and you believe might help u during your waking hours !! Then find the closet antideppresant or / type of drug which you have a chance of getting a prescription for (ie: upper) !! - If it helps all well and good if it does not - u stop taking it - saying it gives u nasea or such - then try another !!

This perhaps in the case if your lithium does not anti deppress you enough - when it is most important !! - Your 9:00 - 21:00 !!

Or

Also in my foolish opinion - to be a zombie - be a happy one - and get prescribed some good "downers" - be a prescription "stoner"(downer) - but go for broke !! i think !!

Also when u get on many prescriptions - it becomes easier to get them changed to some degree - so your specific cocktail - may be 5 drugs - rather than just 2 or 3 with clonazepam or 4 with bupropion.

Also if you go for broke - and reach rock hard bottom - there is only one place u can go - P.A. - and that is up !

Have no worries - and avoid foolish thoughts - or sounds - the mind can twist a simple overheard conversation in my case - into a stress causing - Direct insult !! - But hey i am a fool and a hero (in my mind) at the same time.

Further-more i like people to see the worst in me - because if they do - and still have the ability to be respectful - kind - laugh - or fall in love with me - then i know - within moderation - i can do no wrong !!