I actually think that many people simply don't care and aren't even aware of the player's vs. non-player's designations.

Amongst us racquet/spec junkies on TW, who constantly obsess about "player's" vs. "tweeners", 3 pts vs. 4 points headlight, 22 vs. 21.5 mm beam, 324 vs. 321 SW, and on and on, it seems like everyone who is even remotely decent at tennis would naturally be the same way, but I don't think that's the case at all.

I know a lot of good players (4.0, 4.5, 5.0 and up) who don't give racquet specs a second thought and who play with whatever they play with because it's simply what they always played with or because they tried out a frame and "it felt good." They have no identity based on their racquet and certainly don't give a hoot if their frame is or isn't designated as a "player's" frame. Lots of players get settled in to frames that are "fine" and rightly beleive that the rest is up to them.

This is definitely plausible and realistic. Many people I play with just buy a random frame because they like how it looks or just because it's popular. For instance, many people in my town use prince rackets because they're popular here. Most people don't worry about specs unless they are freaks about tennis.

I thought about weighting up my pro open, but I wouldn't want to keep brushing the ball with a WW forehand. A driving forehand is much more natural for me. I play even less than you do, and I'm not a big guy either. But I'm in pretty decent shape so I don't think weight can really hinder me anymore. I seem to like my sticks around 12-12.6 ounces and very headlight with a sw of about 325.

Do you find it hard to "let the racket do the work" when the racket is lighter? I certainly do. Which is another reason why I think people are right on the money when they say to play with the heaviest stick you can handle.

I don't let the racquet do the work if I am hitting with heavy spin. I have to generate faster head speed. but I don't hit the same ball over and over.

I do let the racquet do the work on flatter balls where I end up finishing over my shoulder instead of down at my hip.

Think it is important to find a weight where you can do both for 3 hours.

I think there are practical, physical parameters at work here: why is the racquet of a certain length, vs. much larger or smaller? Why not a 25 ounce racquet or a 5 ounce racquet.

The short book on Technical Tennis is a good reference here.

My guess, for the OP, is that it is younger players who might be most likely to be unfamiliar with players frames. They may have only used lightweight ones their whole life and never much considered the weight factor.

I see some of the young teen players and say to myself, "Glad for them they've got that much energy to be whipping all the time at the ball like that!"

I started playing with a 9 ounce Wilson titanium, and went I bent it after hitting a forehand, my dad bought me a 9.5 ounce Wilson hyper hammer 115. During a drill at practice one day, a teammate was an idiot and smacked our rackets together as I was swinging at a ball and busted the frame at 9 o'clock. I then received two prince o3 emerald 110s for Xmas. Started getting a lot better and actually finished highschool with these as #1 doubles and the team captain. Got tired of lack of control as I got better, so I sold them to a friend and got my first midplus racket on my 18th birthday: a prince exo3 graphite 100. I played with oversize power frames for 5 years before realizing what a smaller head and more weight can do for your game.

I don't let the racquet do the work if I am hitting with heavy spin. I have to generate faster head speed. but I don't hit the same ball over and over.

I do let the racquet do the work on flatter balls where I end up finishing over my shoulder instead of down at my hip.

Think it is important to find a weight where you can do both for 3 hours.

I think demoing is in order, or else I will ask my old coach if he can lend me his 6.1 for a while. I can take it to cardio with me and see how I cope... Right now the reason why I hit tons of ww topspin is to just keep the ball in. I'm not really a fan of it, because I think that it's really easy to change the mechanics in the swing every so slightly. There's little margin for error with this type of setup IMHO.

So yeah, it's a good stick, although light weight for a player's stick, but it has nothing to do with more easy to wield racquets. Although the days you are sleepy, don't feel anything, or are simply plain bad, you don't do crap with it. Really. For me, "the" good stick is the one you still can play with when you are not are you best.

I'm not afraid of player's sticks, really. It's just the kind of frame I can't play with when I'm not at my best. Hence the term "player's racquet".

On a thread for G. Monfils (as he switched to Wilson), a guy who strung him said that when he discussed about it with him, that he doesn't even know what he precisely has. He just said what he wanted, Wilson send tweaked racquets and off to P1 of the final tweaks. When it's a limiting factor the frame is a problem, but when you're simply good with it and it feels natural, no need for a "players frame", "X RA", "X HL/HH points", "X swingweight" or something. People use the numbers upside down, really. When you have worn up a racquet you were good with, here you use the numbers to search for a racquet that's similar. Not the reverse, when you search for numbers before you even played correctly to begin with...

So yeah, it's a good stick, although light weight for a player's stick, but it has nothing to do with more easy to wield racquets. Although the days you are sleepy, don't feel anything, or are simply plain bad, you don't do crap with it. Really. For me, "the" good stick is the one you still can play with when you are not are you best.

I'm not afraid of player's sticks, really. It's just the kind of frame I can't play with when I'm not at my best. Hence the term "player's racquet".

On a thread for G. Monfils (as he switched to Wilson), a guy who strung him said that when he discussed about it with him, that he doesn't even know what he precisely has. He just said what he wanted, Wilson send tweaked racquets and off to P1 of the final tweaks. When it's a limiting factor the frame is a problem, but when you're simply good with it and it feels natural, no need for a "players frame", "X RA", "X HL/HH points", "X swingweight" or something. People use the numbers upside down, really. When you have worn up a racquet you were good with, here you use the numbers to search for a racquet that's similar. Not the reverse, when you search for numbers before you even played correctly to begin with...

I agree with you. I picked up that 6.1 the other day and it just felt like "home". No adjustment needed, I could play the game I wanted to play, I could hit all the shots, and I definitely thought about checking the bay for one of these sticks. So now I am looking at similarly weighted frames because I know what I like. Some people go nuts with their spec-searching, and I can attest to that because I used to be one of them lol.

I feel like a headlight balance really helps on serve. Which makes rackets like this appealing to many people.

I mean both match play and hitting around casually. I played a few games against my friend that's of similar skill level and I was not hindered on my strokes. They actually benefitted from the weight, especially when I was on the run and wanted to whip a nice cross court backhand at him. The weight of the racket gave me the stability and power to do that. I didn't have to muscle the ball.

The real test is how the racquet works for you when you are a bit tired and/or playing someone a level above you. I'm very comfortable with a 90 in the situation you mention above. I come back to reality when playing someone better than me.

What's "hitting with" mean - match play or hitting around? Huge difference. Any racquet can be money when you "hit with it". Save yourself some headache and judge racquets only by match play.

If you can win, handle the weight in high heat in the 3rd set, then yeah, it will work for you.

Best post.

Yea PS 90 is GREAT to "Hit" with, but in heated matches, something a little bigger is certainly beneficial unless you are a gazelle.

I noticed this coming back into play, LOVE the 90, but in extreme play, circumstances like barely getting to the ball, that extra head size with power, the ability to just pop it back over is certainly better than an outright miss.

I don't think most players are afraid of player's sticks, I think most people have limited money to spend on rackets and are looking for something that they think can immediately help their game.

While a ps85 or 6.1 can be extremely rewarding, odds are most players aren't going to feel like they get an immediate boost from those sticks, while some of the stiffer, lighter rackets can make you feel like you're hitting rocket winners when you pick them up.

As an example, I had a friend who used to play with hyper hammer (forgot which model, but it was more of a tweener) and he used to beat me. He picked up a k6.1 and it was just too much stick for him. I don't think he's beat me since he made the switch. I also remember that he pulled a muscle in his arm the first time we went hitting with the K6.1 - LOL!

On the flip side of that, I went from a bargain bin Wilson Blitz, to a PDR. Don't get me wrong, IMHO the PDR is a pretty good stick, but once I started playing a lot more I wanted something with a bit more control and ended up with a microgel prestige pro. So go figure, it was more of a journey to finding what I liked.

Honestly, I don't think I would have been better off with the prestige as my first stick. Maybe if I started off with a solid schedule of practice and professional instruction, starting off with a "players" stick may have been better.

__________________
Ludacris: My chick bad! Tell me if you seen her. She always brings the racket like Venus and Serena!

Their balance is head light - very easy to swing and hit very heavy balls. Strangely the weight does a lot of the work when it's in motion. Unlike the light sticks

This carries some explanatory force. Experienced players have a good eye for the ball trajectory and get a start at going to the strike point, they get the racquet head back early and can take a full and slower, more deliberate swing. Less experience means playing a bit of catch up, and swinging a bit later, so a lighter frame makes good sense.

The reason old guys start using lighter frames is because they get a later start on the ball.

__________________
To Praise, To Bless, To Preach--the Dominican Order

i think it has to do with player size as well--i'm 6'3", that 11 oz racquet weighs less for me than it does for someone who's 5'5". i'm sure the same goes for a 3.5.

Excellent point, being 6'1" and over 215 (but should be 205 LOL) I always have to factor in that what people call "heavy" and "demanding" has to be adjusted. Just like tennis shoes lasting 6 months sadly means 3 for me!!!

I simply feel like I'm playing with a toy below 11.7oz, and prefer 12-12.5. Light racquets also make me sloppy, since preparation is merrily a flip of the wrist.

I've own every 6.1 95 incarnation (16X1 prior to the BLX crap (K, Nano, Hyper) and every time I pick up the Classic SI I wonder why I don't just put the others on the bay and just grab a few more Classics while they are out there.

I gave an older lady some lessons last summer - she was playing one of those 9 oz 115 sq/in frames and spraying balls everywhere. I gave her one of my redondos and she began to play with much more control - the extra weight of the frame helped to slow her down and made it harder for her to incorporate wrist into her strokes...ultimately she went back to her light frame because her husband had bought it for her - I also didn't want to crap-talk her frame too much, but silently, it was a moment of enlightenment for me in terms of teaching folks how to play. I think rackethead speed becomes less important at the senior level - it's more about good mechanics, touch, and movement.

BTW...I still get fatigued and "old and slow" by a 3rd set, so my solution is try to win in 2 sets with what you love (PS 6.1 95's), but if you go to a 3rd. have a little more forgiving and slightly lighter stick to bring it home with (for me Prestige Pro).

Won quit a few matches with the third set "change up", best part is the ****ed look from opponents floored you can go from stick to stick with no drop in play.