Waxing_Chewbacca:Seals are not always possible. You do not Put American lives at risk to ensure the lives of an equal number of innocents. Harsh but this is the real world.

And that is why you will never win the "War On Terror". You are fighting people who are willing to sacrifice everything they have to beat you, and you don't have the stomach to be on the other end of a bloody massacre.

"20 children killed in a drone strike in Yemen? Well shiat, son, them's the costs of war. Collateral damage as they say."

"4 Americans killed in Libya? OMIGOD WAAAAH! What are we going to do omigod those poor peoiple."

Sickening, really. Grow a pair of testicles and also realize that American lives are as important or unimportant as those you yourselves erase.

Waxing_Chewbacca:I just get tired of the black or white foreign policy of the far right and left. Presidents like Clinton, Obama and, yes, Bush 1 are far preferable in that they had degrees of nuance and reacted to each situation not through a faithfulness to ideaology but to pragmatism.

How do you nuance a situation where there is a knife coming at your neck if you don't leave?

jakomo002:Waxing_Chewbacca: Seals are not always possible. You do not Put American lives at risk to ensure the lives of an equal number of innocents. Harsh but this is the real world.

And that is why you will never win the "War On Terror". You are fighting people who are willing to sacrifice everything they have to beat you, and you don't have the stomach to be on the other end of a bloody massacre.

"20 children killed in a drone strike in Yemen? Well shiat, son, them's the costs of war. Collateral damage as they say."

"4 Americans killed in Libya? OMIGOD WAAAAH! What are we going to do omigod those poor peoiple."

Sickening, really. Grow a pair of testicles and also realize that American lives are as important or unimportant as those you yourselves erase.

Answer the farking question. Terrorist in Yeman plotting to kill Americans. You do what?! Answer the farking question or expose yourself as the shallow thinker you are.

jakomo002:Waxing_Chewbacca: Seals are not always possible. You do not Put American lives at risk to ensure the lives of an equal number of innocents. Harsh but this is the real world.

And that is why you will never win the "War On Terror". You are fighting people who are willing to sacrifice everything they have to beat you, and you don't have the stomach to be on the other end of a bloody massacre.

"20 children killed in a drone strike in Yemen? Well shiat, son, them's the costs of war. Collateral damage as they say."

"4 Americans killed in Libya? OMIGOD WAAAAH! What are we going to do omigod those poor peoiple."

Sickening, really. Grow a pair of testicles and also realize that American lives are as important or unimportant as those you yourselves erase.

Waxing_Chewbacca:jakomo002: Waxing_Chewbacca: Boots on the ground would have been Presidents Bush 2"s position. Which is and was insane. This seems to make more sense. Or you would allow these terrorist who are using yeman as a base to live in peace and kill at will? Smart foreign policy you got there. If the peaceful people of Yeman want peace they can always decide not to tolerate the cold blooded killers who live amongst them. You have no ideas. You have coca-cola "I'd like to teach the world to sing" foreign policy.

HAHA! Yeah, if the Yemenis don't want the heavily armed militants to stay, they should just stroll over and ask them to please leave. Haha.

A lot of this is people's reactions to drone strikes and military intervention, so your suggestion is to use drones and military intervention to stop it.

That is rich, buddy. Not very well thought-out, but rich.

My suggestion is to be less paranoid and less cowardly. Yemen is hardly a threat to the USA, and the only Americans they'll kill are there in Yemen. So get them out and leave the country alone.

Your "nation-building" skills are atrocious.

Answer the question. What would be your policy... Buddy. Yeman is not a threat. Correct. The terrorist there-in are. What would you do?

1. End all military aid to Yemen and her neighbors.2. Issue an advisory against traveling to or doing business in Yemen. Make it clear to American owned companies that they will receive no support, no protection, no intervention if doing business in Yemen becomes problematic.3. Issue same advisory to NGOs.4. Maintain or increase humanitarian aid to Yemen as conditions indicate.5. Invest heavily in wind and solar energy. Invest in hybrid and electric cars. Increase efficiency standards. Invest in mass transit. Seek ways to move our nation from dependency on the one thing that most motivates us to entangle ourselves in the affairs of nations like Yemen.

I know it could be more detailed, but no one wants to be bored to tears by my garrulous ideas on Fark.

Beauf:As someone who has spent a considerable amount of time in the Middle East I would like to say the following: if you think to yourself that it might be a good idea to intentionally incite people to volence against Americans please at least have the balls to go over there and do it to their faces. I got shot at a lot because of people like you and I do not appreciate it. Your God should protect you because yours is right and theirs is wrong, right?

SuperT:ya know, I say just one of these shiat bird dirt holes we should just pick to treat like the romans would. Just say "I'm tired of putting up with your retarded horse shiat, you either come on board, be americans and be cool or we go full 13 legion on your ass". No occupation, just kill the opposition and get on with your day. Remind them that we treat these little pissant extremist with kid gloves because we don't want to hurt the innocent people they hide amoung.

HotIgneous Intruder:Waxing_Chewbacca: I just get tired of the black or white foreign policy of the far right and left. Presidents like Clinton, Obama and, yes, Bush 1 are far preferable in that they had degrees of nuance and reacted to each situation not through a faithfulness to ideaology but to pragmatism.

How do you nuance a situation where there is a knife coming at your neck if you don't leave?

I think a nuanced response would require more details than the example you give. The poster I was responding to seems to feel that the people of Yeman are justified in their protest. That they are justified due to drone strikes. I say they should be protesting their own governments attitude toward the terrorist who are allowed to thrive there and thus necessitate the drone strikes. The poster in question does not appear to think that there are actually terrorist in the middle east and thus is painting me as a right wing nut. I have never and would never vote for a Republican in this day in age (Bill Weld was last guy I could even consider). The point is is that every situation requires a response proportional to the threat while keeping in mind larger goals and protecting American lives. So.... What knife and who are we talking about exactly in your example?

Father_Jack:Just to entertain the "how would I defend an embassy" scenario for a moment...kinda overkill. why not just a browning 50cal?

Nothing makes a man reconsider his life choices like 30mm explosive shells being delivered at 4200 rounds a minute.

A 50 cal just sounds like a gun. These people are used to gunfire. Time to bring something to the table that will literally vaporize people trying to climb the walls of an embassy to kill innocent civilians.

ilambiquated:Yemen is a rough place and has been on the verge of civil war since the beginning of the Arab Spring. It was a sort-of democracy before that. And before that it was two countries and one conquered the other one.

I would expect the American embassy to be pretty heavily guarded. Hope so.

Also Yemen is a beautiful country with an amazing cultural heritage, and Yemen/Ethiopia is one of the world's oldest centers of civilization. The capital, Sana'a, is one of the world's most beautiful cities.

[www.yemen.jp image 800x600]

GIS to see more.

Yeah, sure is going to be a dang shame when the profile of that hill is altered via high ordinance.

Waxing_Chewbacca:Answer the question. What would be your policy... Buddy. Yeman is not a threat. Correct. The terrorist there-in are. What would you do?

Get a table, a few chairs, and invite them to the table to talk. Ask them what their problem is. What are they fighting for? I mean, what are they hoping to accomplish? Their demands.

And then negotiate a fair and equitable COMPROMISE where everyone gets almost everything they want,. but with some serious and lasting concessions on each side, with clear and serious consequences if either side farks around.

Then try it out and see how it goes for the first 6 months and then go back to that same table and discuss what you can improve.

It's not rocket science. Ask the IRA.

/plus it's cheap. No trillion dollar military expenditures, just some office supplies/.

It was always tenuous at best and only survived this long because of the cheap energy of the oil age.Islam will creep. Christianity will creep. People will die, same as ever.Crusades, Barbary Pirates, the idiotic stupidity will continue until the Globalists finally eradicate religion altogether.

Prank Call of Cthulhu:A colleague of mine spent some time there a few years ago. He said it's actually a beautiful country with some fantastic scenery that could do great tourism if it wanted to. The only problem with Yemen, he said, is that it's filled with Yemenis.

Israel used to have that problem with Palestinians. But it's a wonderful country now.

Is there no end of shiat the U.S. Army looks at, thinks "That thing on that particular vehicle is pretty damn cool. We want that thing, but don't have that vehicle. What can we mount that shiat on?"

And thats how we end up with AAMRAMs stuck on a HMMWV and a CIWS stuck on a HEMTT. At this rate I expect to see a Borfors 40mm cannon on a CUCV and a 16 inch deck gun on a LMTV (which would be farking awesome to see fire)

jakomo002:Waxing_Chewbacca: Seals are not always possible. You do not Put American lives at risk to ensure the lives of an equal number of innocents. Harsh but this is the real world.

And that is why you will never win the "War On Terror". You are fighting people who are willing to sacrifice everything they have to beat you worship death, and you don't have the stomach to be on the other end of a bloody massacre.

"20 children killed in a drone strike in Yemen? Well shiat, son, them's the costs of war. Collateral damage as they say."

"4 Americans killed in Libya? OMIGOD WAAAAH! What are we going to do omigod those poor peoiple."

Sickening, really. Grow a pair of testicles and also realize that American lives are as important or unimportant as those you yourselves erase.

Lunaville:Waxing_Chewbacca: jakomo002: Waxing_Chewbacca: Boots on the ground would have been Presidents Bush 2"s position. Which is and was insane. This seems to make more sense. Or you would allow these terrorist who are using yeman as a base to live in peace and kill at will? Smart foreign policy you got there. If the peaceful people of Yeman want peace they can always decide not to tolerate the cold blooded killers who live amongst them. You have no ideas. You have coca-cola "I'd like to teach the world to sing" foreign policy.

HAHA! Yeah, if the Yemenis don't want the heavily armed militants to stay, they should just stroll over and ask them to please leave. Haha.

A lot of this is people's reactions to drone strikes and military intervention, so your suggestion is to use drones and military intervention to stop it.

That is rich, buddy. Not very well thought-out, but rich.

My suggestion is to be less paranoid and less cowardly. Yemen is hardly a threat to the USA, and the only Americans they'll kill are there in Yemen. So get them out and leave the country alone.

Your "nation-building" skills are atrocious.

Answer the question. What would be your policy... Buddy. Yeman is not a threat. Correct. The terrorist there-in are. What would you do?

1. End all military aid to Yemen and her neighbors.2. Issue an advisory against traveling to or doing business in Yemen. Make it clear to American owned companies that they will receive no support, no protection, no intervention if doing business in Yemen becomes problematic.3. Issue same advisory to NGOs.4. Maintain or increase humanitarian aid to Yemen as conditions indicate.5. Invest heavily in wind and solar energy. Invest in hybrid and electric cars. Increase efficiency standards. Invest in mass transit. Seek ways to move our nation from dependency on the one thing that most motivates us to entangle ourselves in the affairs of nations like Yemen.

I know it could be more detailed, but no one wants to be bored t ...

I was asking him but that was very good stuff. One more, a secret ultimatum that drone strikes will resume and sanctions will become crippling if they do not round up the terrorist immediately. Can't say that out loud. Have to let them save some face.

Baryogenesis:vegasj: Baryogenesis: You're free to blather whatever derp you like. I'm free to ignore it in favor of intelligent discussion. You're just proving the case that conservatives think criticism is equivalent to censorship.

What you call derp I call opinions. What I call YOUR derp, you call it your "criticism".

So while the right thinking of mine is an opinion... you either choose to ignore it, call it derp, and criticize it rather than offering any kind of intelligent discussion. A bit hypocritical don't ya think?

I think it's telling that when I said I was putting right wing trolls on ignore you took offense. By the way, your initial comment in the thread was about "Obama's apology". Pot meet kettle.

Would you like to try for intelligent discussion again?

BgJonson79: I was separating out the idea of monitoring people in your jurisdiction with a foreign policy/military decision... but you knew that ;-)

I don't see how it's all that different. Is it prudent to monitor potential threats?

Waxing_Chewbacca:HotIgneous Intruder: Waxing_Chewbacca: I just get tired of the black or white foreign policy of the far right and left. Presidents like Clinton, Obama and, yes, Bush 1 are far preferable in that they had degrees of nuance and reacted to each situation not through a faithfulness to ideaology but to pragmatism.

How do you nuance a situation where there is a knife coming at your neck if you don't leave?

I think a nuanced response would require more details than the example you give. The poster I was responding to seems to feel that the people of Yeman are justified in their protest. That they are justified due to drone strikes. I say they should be protesting their own governments attitude toward the terrorist who are allowed to thrive there and thus necessitate the drone strikes. The poster in question does not appear to think that there are actually terrorist in the middle east and thus is painting me as a right wing nut. I have never and would never vote for a Republican in this day in age (Bill Weld was last guy I could even consider). The point is is that every situation requires a response proportional to the threat while keeping in mind larger goals and protecting American lives. So.... What knife and who are we talking about exactly in your example?

You could do a lot to reduce the number of non-targeted casualties for such a strike though. Use local assets to give us an idea of the time/location that is best, preferably when non targets are not present. Perhaps the women and children have gone to market, perhaps the male conspirators have gone to their meeting place where it's just them, etc.

Then I have no issues firing off those hellfires. Stuff like hitting them during a wedding or at dinner surrounded by the family, however, is rather criminal to me.

jakomo002:Waxing_Chewbacca: Answer the question. What would be your policy... Buddy. Yeman is not a threat. Correct. The terrorist there-in are. What would you do?

Get a table, a few chairs, and invite them to the table to talk. Ask them what their problem is. What are they fighting for? I mean, what are they hoping to accomplish? Their demands.

And then negotiate a fair and equitable COMPROMISE where everyone gets almost everything they want,. but with some serious and lasting concessions on each side, with clear and serious consequences if either side farks around.

Then try it out and see how it goes for the first 6 months and then go back to that same table and discuss what you can improve.

It's not rocket science. Ask the IRA.

/plus it's cheap. No trillion dollar military expenditures, just some office supplies/.

I assume you realize that I'm going to steal this and add to my own list.

jakomo002:Waxing_Chewbacca: Seals are not always possible. You do not Put American lives at risk to ensure the lives of an equal number of innocents. Harsh but this is the real world.

And that is why you will never win the "War On Terror". You are fighting people who are willing to sacrifice everything they have to beat you, and you don't have the stomach to be on the other end of a bloody massacre.

"20 children killed in a drone strike in Yemen? Well shiat, son, them's the costs of war. Collateral damage as they say."

"4 Americans killed in Libya? OMIGOD WAAAAH! What are we going to do omigod those poor peoiple."

Sickening, really. Grow a pair of testicles and also realize that American lives are as important or unimportant as those you yourselves erase.

But see that's just not true.

2,000 dead on 9/11 and americans are justifiably furious and want blood, anyone's blood. We must have veng- err justice!100,000+ innocent Iraqi dead by our hand1 US soldier, who volunteered for his job and is equipped with the best gear and support network the world has ever seen, is killed in a foreign country. OMG TRAGEDY10 Iraqis living in the village they've lived for generations, with no training, no armor, no HUMVs to evacuate them to Germany or insurance policies for their spouses get blown up in their own beds... *shrug*.

Americans as a people DON'T care. And to us collectively, the lives are NOT worth the same. Not even close.

Its really amazing to me how much we as a people don't get bothered by how much innocent blood is spilled in our name.

Sgt Stubby:Hmmm... looks like somebody on YouTube pulled the old switcherooski on me. The Tom Holland documentary (Islam: The Untold Story) has been replaced with something else called 'islam the untold story', though the replacement is an adoring pro-islam fluff piece .

The REAL, banned documentary has been removed and scrubbed from the Internet... so as not to incite muslim violence.

I have no doubt your idea would solve that particular fence climbing problem. Did it occur to you that shooting rioters might be a tad overzealous? Did you happen to think through the ramifications of US Marines shooting a bunch of unarmed rioters?

Then you'd be wrong.It's nothing knowing the theory of how a nuclear bomb works.A school kid can learn that.It's everything knowing exactly how to build a nuclear bomb and what materials to use and how to produce those materials to the proper tolerances.Read up on the Manhattan Project sometime.

jakomo002:Waxing_Chewbacca: Answer the question. What would be your policy... Buddy. Yeman is not a threat. Correct. The terrorist there-in are. What would you do?

Get a table, a few chairs, and invite them to the table to talk. Ask them what their problem is. What are they fighting for? I mean, what are they hoping to accomplish? Their demands.

And then negotiate a fair and equitable COMPROMISE where everyone gets almost everything they want,. but with some serious and lasting concessions on each side, with clear and serious consequences if either side farks around.

Then try it out and see how it goes for the first 6 months and then go back to that same table and discuss what you can improve.

It's not rocket science. Ask the IRA.

/plus it's cheap. No trillion dollar military expenditures, just some office supplies/.

You are way out there in the blue man. The people who you wish to compromise do NOT compromise. Wow. Teach the world to sing...

Off to work. I enjoyed the sparring. I imagine there are many things we can agree on. Just not this aspect of foreign policy. Have a good day.

It was always tenuous at best and only survived this long because of the cheap energy of the oil age.Islam will creep. Christianity will creep. People will die, same as ever.Crusades, Barbary Pirates, the idiotic stupidity will continue until the Globalists finally eradicate religion altogether.

Can we get back to the Renaissance at least? They looked like they had a good time.

CygnusDarius:Sgt Stubby: Hmmm... looks like somebody on YouTube pulled the old switcherooski on me. The Tom Holland documentary (Islam: The Untold Story) has been replaced with something else called 'islam the untold story', though the replacement is an adoring pro-islam fluff piece .

The REAL, banned documentary has been removed and scrubbed from the Internet... so as not to incite muslim violence.

Tamater:Romney's statement condemning Obama's response to this attack due any minute now.

Perhaps the only good aspect of this is that it highlights that the Republicans have once again nominated the wrong guy. Romney's political instincts are terrible. A more cunning and astute politician would have said "in our country's time of loss and grief to put aside partisanship and to back the Commander-in-Chief in making some hard decisions". Then he could look statesmanlike while authorizing another tranche of attack ads.

He could also suggest that all right-thinking Republicans attend Pastor Jones's church this Sunday. You know, just attend.

Antimatter:Waxing_Chewbacca: HotIgneous Intruder: Waxing_Chewbacca: I just get tired of the black or white foreign policy of the far right and left. Presidents like Clinton, Obama and, yes, Bush 1 are far preferable in that they had degrees of nuance and reacted to each situation not through a faithfulness to ideaology but to pragmatism.

How do you nuance a situation where there is a knife coming at your neck if you don't leave?

I think a nuanced response would require more details than the example you give. The poster I was responding to seems to feel that the people of Yeman are justified in their protest. That they are justified due to drone strikes. I say they should be protesting their own governments attitude toward the terrorist who are allowed to thrive there and thus necessitate the drone strikes. The poster in question does not appear to think that there are actually terrorist in the middle east and thus is painting me as a right wing nut. I have never and would never vote for a Republican in this day in age (Bill Weld was last guy I could even consider). The point is is that every situation requires a response proportional to the threat while keeping in mind larger goals and protecting American lives. So.... What knife and who are we talking about exactly in your example?

You could do a lot to reduce the number of non-targeted casualties for such a strike though. Use local assets to give us an idea of the time/location that is best, preferably when non targets are not present. Perhaps the women and children have gone to market, perhaps the male conspirators have gone to their meeting place where it's just them, etc.

Then I have no issues firing off those hellfires. Stuff like hitting them during a wedding or at dinner surrounded by the family, however, is rather criminal to me.

Agreed. We need better assets. We need more CIA informants. We did a poor job of that for a very long time. I think, based on even knowing these guys are there, that President Obama has done a better job pushing that effort but yes, far more are needed. If we can target better, and that means intelligence, we will be far better off.

Baryogenesis:HotIgneous Intruder: Father_Jack: Just to entertain the "how would I defend an embassy" scenario for a moment...kinda overkill. why not just a browning 50cal?

Two Marines with rifles would solve that climbing-the-fence problem.

HotIgneous Intruder: There is that aspect, since we're being nuanced and sophisticated here.

Yup. A lot of nuance there.

I have no doubt your idea would solve that particular fence climbing problem. Did it occur to you that shooting rioters might be a tad overzealous? Did you happen to think through the ramifications of US Marines shooting a bunch of unarmed rioters?

Joe Blowme:CygnusDarius: Sgt Stubby: Hmmm... looks like somebody on YouTube pulled the old switcherooski on me. The Tom Holland documentary (Islam: The Untold Story) has been replaced with something else called 'islam the untold story', though the replacement is an adoring pro-islam fluff piece .

The REAL, banned documentary has been removed and scrubbed from the Internet... so as not to incite muslim violence.

Baryogenesis:HotIgneous Intruder: Father_Jack: Just to entertain the "how would I defend an embassy" scenario for a moment...kinda overkill. why not just a browning 50cal?

Two Marines with rifles would solve that climbing-the-fence problem.

HotIgneous Intruder: There is that aspect, since we're being nuanced and sophisticated here.

Yup. A lot of nuance there.

I have no doubt your idea would solve that particular fence climbing problem. Did it occur to you that shooting rioters might be a tad overzealous? Did you happen to think through the ramifications of US Marines shooting a bunch of unarmed rioters?

Did you happen to consider the ramifications of doing nothing at all? Of course not. More and more will be emboldened and this will spread. It started in Cairo, Obama apologized, and people died in Libya and Obama has done nothing, and now Yemen, and Obama has done nothing. Maths are hard but it's not that hard to connect the dots with your crayon, is it?