Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

I still want to go natural gas on the way to Hydrogen. Half the co2 and pollutants, U.S. has an abundance, it keeps getting cheaper, no blood for oil, works well for heavy vehicles, existing infrastructure than can be expanded and slowly converted to hydrogen.

Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

Something I have always been curious about is if you switched all vehicles on earth to run on hydrogen how all that extra water vapor in the air would affect our climate.

So I was just reading a little bit about it. Apparently when IR radiation from the Earth strikes H2O, the H2O acts as a greenhouse gas. Something about the structure and it's weight and how it interacts with other particles to form precipitation makes for it having a very short residence time. This means it isn't a strong greenhouse gas. I'm only reading an introductory thing on it so the technical details are still missing but it makes sense.

So it would be a far better cry than oil for many reasons.

It does sound like there is a negative feedback loop however so if we switched vehicles to hydrogen we would simultaneously need to reduce CO2, CH4, N2O and others. I hope to be able to get into the more technical details of this in the future.

Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

A new joint report from the California Energy Commission and Air Resources Board projects that 50 plus hydrogen stations will be operational in California by the end of 2016. The network will have enough capacity to fuel more than 10,000 FCEVs and will provide the foundation for commercial launch of FCEVs in California. Government funding support is crucial to establish and sustain the early-market station network until a sufficient number of FCEVs can create a self-sustaining market.

Read more at: cafcp.org/blog

We could debate on if this was due to Arnold S. or not but I think he had a major positive impact on it and it's why it's so important to get the right people in office to set the path for the future. I feel like Bernie's story is similar to Arnolds in that they both started out with practically nothing.

Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

Thanks zet'I had a listen to the video. Thought it was nicely done and informative. One thing that did catch my attention around 24 minutes in was the remark on the 'red thing'. I wonder now if we should paint those to match the station. lol The person responding provided a very interesting politically correct 'description' of the safety device. I guess you wouldn't want to say exactly what it is. There are many similar safety devices on the stations to detect fires, detect leaking hydrogen, check to verify the hose is intact, prevent drive aways, etc...

Reminds me a bit of something I'd heard many years ago in a similar presentation. They asked if we were to come up with a new energy source that would kill a certain number of people every year, set fire to homes and businesses at some specific but small rate, would it be an acceptable energy source? The presenter gave very specific numbers and percentages. He was talking of course of natural gas. Hydrogen is very much the same way. We'll have problems. We've already had problems. It's going to happen. You do your best to prevent incidents and make everything as safe as possible. No one wants to be the engineer that designed the part that failed and killed so many people. But given the odds, it is inevitable that there will be accidents and people will be hurt, maybe killed. It's something we as engineers have to be vigilant about, not just in hydrogen stations but in everything we do which can impact others.

Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

It's the price to pay to have our toys. What you say reminds me of environmental impact statement type of analysis. And those economic analysis where the safer we make something the more costly it gets up into infinite cost for perfect safety.Gasoline is among the most dangerous substances there is. It's common for terrorists to just use it instead of some fancy other substances.If a terrorist wanted to blow something up, do you think they would try to find some hydrogen or a few gallons of gasoline?

Honda's Power Exporter also went on sale in Japan, which when used together with the Clarity FCEV, allows the vehicle to function as a 'power source on wheels,' capable of providing seven days worth of power to an average Japanese home.

Also announced at the Clarity launch was news that Honda is working with automaker General Motors to reduce the cost of fuel cells used in FCEVs, as part of its technology development partnership. Honda began collaborating with General Motors on fuel cell technology in 2013.

Honda plans to introduce the Clarity Fuel Cell to Europe and the United States later in 2016.This has always been one of my favorites over the years.

On March 21, the California Air Resources Board (ARB) announced the California Hydrogen Infrastructure Tool (CHIT), which can be used to help identify opportunities for hydrogen fueling stations in accordance with California Assembly Bill 8.

Today, the Energy Department's (DOE) Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy (EERE) announced the city of San Francisco has been selected as the first Climate Action Champion to pursue hydrogen and fuel cell technologies for local transportation, in addition to new analysis projects by Strategic Analysis, Inc. The nearly $4.75 million in funding for both efforts will go towards the development of education and outreach programs to increase the deployment of fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEVs) and hydrogen infrastructure, as well as provide detailed cost analyses for hydrogen fuel cell systems, hydrogen storage, and hydrogen production and delivery technologies.

Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

On Thursday, June 23, more than 100 House and Senate staff members, as well as other policy officials, attended the Fuel Cell and Hydrogen Energy Association's (FCHEA's) 4th annual Congressional Fuel Cell and Hydrogen Policy Briefing on Capitol Hill, a strong reflection of increased awareness of, and interest in, fuel cell and hydrogen technologies.

Senators Bluemthal (D-CT) and Graham (R-SC) opened the briefing by explaining their support for the fuel cell and hydrogen energy industry, the need for sustained funding for research and development, and calling for renewal and extension of needed tax incentives to provide parity in the market.

Other speakers included:

Dr. Sunita Satyapal, Director of the Fuel Cell Technologies Office within the Department of Energy; Andy Marsh, CEO of Plug Power; Jana Barresi, Director of Federal Relations at Walmart; Frank Wolak, Vice President of FuelCell Energy and Chairman of FCHEA; and, Jonathan Powers, Managing Director of Public Sector Business Development for Bloom Energy.

The speakers detailed the commercial success of stationary fuel cells and fuel cell-powered material handling equipment, recent commercialization of fuel cell vehicles and hydrogen infrastructure, and explained why continued support of these technologies remains crucial to the nation's energy future.

Attendance at the event was far greater than expected, with a significant overflow crowd listening at the doorway. The strong interest in fuel cells indicates that the industry enjoys greater recognition of importance on Capitol Hill thanks to the hard work of FCHEA's members and staff, as well as the work of our industry allies in Congress and throughout Washington.

I actually had the fortune to attend a fuel cell caucus in the senate a few years ago. It was a cool experience. :)

PS: I don't think I'm going to post monthly headlines anymore. I think people get the point. Maybe just a couple headlines that really stand out from now on.

Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

By mid-century, 87% of cars on the road will need to be full ZEVs. This will place California on a path to reducing greenhouse gas emissions by 80% by 2050, a goal adopted by many nations and believed necessary to stabilize climate temperature.

Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

Interesting news zet. I wasn't aware California was mandating zero emissions vehicles. That essentially tells companies to put money into development and start working on both the vehicles and infrastructure.

Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

I always thought aircraft would generally be stuck using hydrocarbon fuels due to problems with the large volume needed for hydrogen. I'll admit I haven't really thought about it much though.

One exception is liquid hydrogen. I know some aircraft (drones) have been built to fly on LH2 - for example, the Boeing Phantom Eye which used LH2 and a pair of 4 cylinder reciprocating automobile engines (Ford) with 2 stage turbochargers. But I suspect larger, passenger aircraft and military aircraft that need high performance would generally have to use carbon based fuels. I wonder if that's just my own pre-conceived notion? I haven't done any digging... any thoughts?

oh... I fly to Germany tomorrow... Business trip regarding automotive hydrogen refueling. Should be fun! :)

Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cell Day

Sounds like fun Dave_C. I hope you have a great trip! I just got back from a camping trip and then I fly to the East coast next week.

Just saw this.

The U.S. Senate recently passed Resolution 573, which officially recognizes October 8, 2016 as National Hydrogen & Fuel Cell Day. We are celebrating the second annual National Hydrogen and Fuel Cell Day to raise awareness of a clean energy technology that is here now. October 8th (10.08) was chosen in reference to the atomic weight of hydrogen (1.008).

Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

If the research continues to progress, brace yourself for the hydrogen “revolution” envisioned by Dr. Yacoby:

“Since the beginning of time, we have been using agriculture to make our own food. But when it comes to energy, we are still hunter-gatherers. Cultivating energy from agriculture is really the next revolution.”

Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

This success can support economic growth, jobs, and domestic leadership in cutting edge energy technology

The SimpleFuel™ team, a consortium made up of Ivys Energy Solutions, McPhy Energy North America and PDC Machines, designed their system to be a safe, small-scale hydrogen-refueling appliance capable of delivering up to 5 kg/day of hydrogen to vehicles at pressures up to 700 bar (10,000 psi). 5 kg is enough to fully fuel one fuel cell electric vehicle (FCEV) for 300-360 miles.

“In 2007 Congress established this competition, with bipartisan support, to inspire creative approaches and advances for hydrogen energy technologies,” stated Jeff Serfass, President of the Hydrogen Education Foundation. “The development of the hydrogen infrastructure became the target of this competition, and I am pleased that DOE and HEF together have delivered on the objective for the H-Prize with SimpleFuel’s grand achievement,” Serfass concluded.

Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

I received the following as an email, with pictures of the outside of a car and without any pictures of the engine. It's one of those things that sounds too good to be true at face value. Does anybody know anything about the technology? There has to be a giant catch somewhere -

"The Electric Car Powered by Salt Water: 920 hp, 373 Miles/Tank

Tesla eat your heart out, the Germans have created an electrical car powered by salt water. It has four electric engines and is FAST with some pretty sweet fuel economy for a sports car. Leave the Bugatti at home and stop by the beach to refuel.The recent announcement that the Quant e-Sportlimousine, which is a salt water powered car, has been certified for use on European roads is a big sign that the Oil Cartels are losing the energy war.

Since the early 1900s, the Oil Cartels, which are controlled by the Controllers, have been harassing and silencing alternative energy inventors who pose a threat to the Oil Cartels.

One of the greatest alternative energy inventors that they silenced was Nikola Tesla. Unlike traditional cars that run on gasoline, the Quant e-Sportlimousine runs on an electrolyte flow cell power system made by NanoFlowcell that has the ability to generate an astonishing 920 horsepower (680 kW). This salt water powered car can go from 0-62 mph (100 km/h) in 2.8 seconds and has a top speed of 217.5 mph (350 km/h). The Quant e-Sportlimousine is built by the German company Quant.

Electrolyte flow cell technology has been around for decades, but it wasn’t until recently that certain car manufacturers were given the permission to start building cars that run on electrolyte flow cell technology.This type of alternative energy technology will eventually make gasoline powered cars obsolete, because using electrolyte flow cell technology to power cars is a lot more efficient and much cleaner than using gasoline.

The car is powered by the electrolyte flow cell power system, which is a part of the NanoFlowcell technology. The system works in a similar way to a hydrogen fuel cell, except for the fact that salt water is used for storing power.

In particular, two liquids with metallic salts, which act as the electrolyte, are combined in such a way that the electrochemical reaction takes place. After that, electric motors use this reaction to generate electricity, which is then stored and distributed by super capacitors.

The efficiency of this system reaches 80%, since the car has almost no moving parts in it, and the produced waste heat is insignificant in comparison with cars powered by lithium-ion batteries.

Alternative energy technologies, such as the electrolyte flow cell system, will become more mainstream as the new paradigm emerges. These types of alternative energy technologies will help solve our “energy crisis” and usher a new age in which we can live without worrying about not having access to cheap and clean energy."

Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

Unless that concept is some sort of chain reaction type of thing (which is also common to multi-carbonate fuel cells)The catch is probably this:It's similar to fuel cells in that it is basically energy storage aka a battery. The energy still has to come from somewhere and we would hope from wind, solar, etc.

The advantage hydrogen fuel cells have is hydrogen can come from fossil fuels in multiple ways and biproducts of the fossil fuel industry. This makes it a good transition fuel to work toward improving the efficiency and distributed decentralized energy network. The technology is advancing in a similar moor's law that computers advance.

However, this is yet another of dozens of examples of clean energy storage technologies that can be used in combination with wind, solar, geothermal, tidal, etc, in a distributed decentralized grid for a clean energy future, which we could make happen sooner than later if policies switch fossil fuel subsidies to developing this technology faster and the powers that be would stop manipulating people into thinking they have to keep working toxic jobs in things like the coal industry which pollutes their environment and just makes the fossil industry richer to continue having massive amounts of money to lobby policy and continue down the road of limited resources.

There is a major shift in the subsidies right now thanks to certain politicians in the US (which has reversed recently). Coincidentally I attended a state legislature meeting YESTERDAY over this exact topic where there were lobbyist on the clean energy side. The question being, does our state start fracking in the future, or put the subsidies into already existing and proven technologies currently in the state :)

IMO, and what makes sense to me is moving down this path sooner than later will improve national security, a more powerful nation, a cleaner environment, and significantly more longer term jobs.