If I knew 100% for sure that someone had information that could help save a life, I would be on board (pun intended) for making them talk. But to kidnap people, some who might even be killers, from Afganistan or Iraq, and making them talk with torture is dumb. Please don't forget, those terrorists from 911 came from Saudi Arabia and Egypt.

One of those waterboarded(there were three that have been made public) was a Kuwaiti National RadioGod. A graduate of Chowan College right there in North Carolina, USA. He then graduated from North Carolina AT&T.

His name.....was Khalid Sheik Mohammed. He was the mastermind behind the 9-11 attack. You see....the nationality of the 9-11 attackers, RG, is about as relevant as the state residence of Timothy McVeigh he being from Lockport, New York. And you'd ask what the devil does the man being born in New York have to do with his attack in Oklahoma City and I'd say, "exactly."

Where the attackers came from is irrelevant.

KSM was waterboarded...and gave us the name of the contact Bin Laden was using while hidden in Pakistan.

KSM....by your definition.....you'd be onboard with. Correct? I mean, there is no question this man had vital information. He was the organizer of the attack, he was it's designer and engineer. Atta his primary cell leader and pilot was an Egyptian. Like....19 of em were Saudis. Their Muslim faith was their common denominator. Their hatred for US policies as well. Their loyalty to a cause. Their savage extremism.....all saw their day on 9-11-01.

And they're pissed about Iraq, RadioGod. It's critical if nothing else is known to at least know that. The attack on 9-11...was nearly all about Iraq. al-Qaeda......is laser focused on Iraq from 1990-2000

People who enter the US without our permission are illegal aliens and illegal aliens should not be treated the same as people who entered the US legally

Isn't this the method that gained us the false info that helped sell the Iraq mistake to the public? Tortured people will tell you something. But it won't necessarily be the truth. especially if they don't even have the answers you want.

Why not cite that, donttread. That torture led us into Iraq.

And you pretend like you know. Torture also has it's different effect on different individuals. You cannot make a broad statement like that, we've used enhanced interrogations in several conflicts....and it often works. Captured Chinese during the Korean War for example, but then why would I be discussing that with you, you probably think the Korean War is a noodle dish at the local market.

People who enter the US without our permission are illegal aliens and illegal aliens should not be treated the same as people who entered the US legally

One of those waterboarded(there were three that have been made public) was a Kuwaiti National RadioGod. A graduate of Chowan College right there in North Carolina, USA. He then graduated from North Carolina AT&T.

His name.....was Khalid Sheik Mohammed. He was the mastermind behind the 9-11 attack. You see....the nationality of the 9-11 attackers, RG, is about as relevant as the state residence of Timothy McVeigh he being from Lockport, New York. And you'd ask what the devil does the man being born in New York have to do with his attack in Oklahoma City and I'd say, "exactly."

Where the attackers came from is irrelevant.

KSM was waterboarded...and gave us the name of the contact Bin Laden was using while hidden in Pakistan.

KSM....by your definition.....you'd be onboard with. Correct? I mean, there is no question this man had vital information. He was the organizer of the attack, he was it's designer and engineer. Atta his primary cell leader and pilot was an Egyptian. Like....19 of em were Saudis. Their Muslim faith was their common denominator. Their hatred for US policies as well. Their loyalty to a cause. Their savage extremism.....all saw their day on 9-11-01.

And they're pissed about Iraq, RadioGod. It's critical if nothing else is known to at least know that. The attack on 9-11...was nearly all about Iraq. al-Qaeda......is laser focused on Iraq from 1990-2000

When we are talking about launching a war or retalitory strike against the people that planned 911, their nationality does matter. What passports were they carrying? Who did they associate with? Where did their funding come from? These are all important questions. If the supposed mastermind was Kuwaiti, how come we didn't go into Kuwait and tear sh*t up? Nobody ever accused Iraq of being the instigators of 911. We used the American public's outrage and desperation to strike out at someone to invade Iraq. The informant that the WMD statement was based upon was full of crap.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curveball_(informant)
And all this information is suspect when you consider 911 ain't right in so many ways. I'm not saying it wasn't terrorism, people died horribly and it surely did inspire terror. And anger.
Can you imagine this Iraqi informant "curveball", if we had decided to interrogate him with enhanced techniques? He probably would have said all kinds of more crazy sh*t, and all of it would have been lies.
Let me enlighten you to how most(not all) of the people end up in these torture camps. They are snitched on, and snitches get paid for everyone they turn in. This is the most unreliable way to collect information, especially in poor and desperate locations. Anyone who has a grudge can have someone gotten rid of easily. I am not for torturing people scooped up in this manner.
Now, if you see someone planting an IED, that is another story. Grab them and beat the sh*t out of them. Even then, you can't just believe anything they say.

I live with a profound happiness that can only be achieved by being hated by Mr.Veritis

When we are talking about launching a war or retalitory strike against the people that planned 911, their nationality does matter. What passports were they carrying? Who did they associate with? Where did their funding come from? These are all important questions.

But RG.....allow me to remind you of the post you wrote that I responded to and I quote "If I knew 100% for sure that someone had information that could help save a life, I would be on board (pun intended) for making them talk. But to kidnap people, some who might even be killers, from Afganistan or Iraq, and making them talk with torture is dumb. Please don't forget, those terrorists from 911 came from Saudi Arabia and Egypt."

We knew KSM had information. We knew who he was. Many of these hijackers in this country legally. al-Qaeda not an unknown, RG, we knew who we had, you said if you knew 100% the man knew vital national security information, this man did. You wrote it, I didn't.

The remainder of my post merely dealt with the truths of why we were attacked. Why Iraq when Saudis from Afghanistan fly a US plane piloted by an Egyptian into the World Trade Centers. You didn't seem to be aware of why, I was helping out.

If the supposed mastermind was Kuwaiti, how come we didn't go into Kuwait and tear sh*t up? Nobody ever accused Iraq of being the instigators of 911. We used the American public's outrage and desperation to strike out at someone to invade Iraq. The informant that the WMD statement was based upon was full of crap.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curveball_(informant)

What do you mean if? Was I bringing alien information into your camp, RG? And......Wikipedia? Really?

And all this information is suspect when you consider 911 ain't right in so many ways. I'm not saying it wasn't terrorism, people died horribly and it surely did inspire terror. And anger.
Can you imagine this Iraqi informant "curveball", if we had decided to interrogate him with enhanced techniques? He probably would have said all kinds of more crazy sh*t, and all of it would have been lies.

You are making like.....zero sense.

Let me enlighten you to how most(not all) of the people end up in these torture camps.

I can't wait. Cause....you sound like an expert on how most of these people end up in 'torture camps.'

They are snitched on, and snitches get paid for everyone they turn in. This is the most unreliable way to collect information, especially in poor and desperate locations. Anyone who has a grudge can have someone gotten rid of easily. I am not for torturing people scooped up in this manner.
Now, if you see someone planting an IED, that is another story. Grab them and beat the sh*t out of them. Even then, you can't just believe anything they say.

I wasn't talking about people snatched off the battlefield planting IEDs, RadioGod. We're speaking to the three men waterboarded, your torture camp lingo isn't accurate, you appear to be winging it.

And you must understand the role Iraq played in the attacks on 9-11. Saddam didn't conspire with al-Qaeda to attack the United States, Iraq not responsible. Our policies on Iraq.....that were detailed and specified by Bin Laden in his declaration of war against the United States...was what unleashed his hatred. Our presence, our blockades and sanctions, our devastating economic restrictions. You did know this. Yes?

People who enter the US without our permission are illegal aliens and illegal aliens should not be treated the same as people who entered the US legally

KSM wanted to destroy the House of Saud as well as attack the US and its interests.

Originally Posted by RadioGod

When we are talking about launching a war or retalitory strike against the people that planned 911, their nationality does matter. What passports were they carrying? Who did they associate with? Where did their funding come from? These are all important questions. If the supposed mastermind was Kuwaiti, how come we didn't go into Kuwait and tear sh*t up? Nobody ever accused Iraq of being the instigators of 911. We used the American public's outrage and desperation to strike out at someone to invade Iraq. The informant that the WMD statement was based upon was full of crap.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curveball_(informant)
And all this information is suspect when you consider 911 ain't right in so many ways. I'm not saying it wasn't terrorism, people died horribly and it surely did inspire terror. And anger.
Can you imagine this Iraqi informant "curveball", if we had decided to interrogate him with enhanced techniques? He probably would have said all kinds of more crazy sh*t, and all of it would have been lies.
Let me enlighten you to how most(not all) of the people end up in these torture camps. They are snitched on, and snitches get paid for everyone they turn in. This is the most unreliable way to collect information, especially in poor and desperate locations. Anyone who has a grudge can have someone gotten rid of easily. I am not for torturing people scooped up in this manner.
Now, if you see someone planting an IED, that is another story. Grab them and beat the sh*t out of them. Even then, you can't just believe anything they say.

But RG.....allow me to remind you of the post you wrote that I responded to and I quote "If I knew 100% for sure that someone had information that could help save a life, I would be on board (pun intended) for making them talk. But to kidnap people, some who might even be killers, from Afganistan or Iraq, and making them talk with torture is dumb. Please don't forget, those terrorists from 911 came from Saudi Arabia and Egypt."

We knew KSM had information. We knew who he was. Many of these hijackers in this country legally. al-Qaeda not an unknown, RG, we knew who we had, you said if you knew 100% the man knew vital national security information, this man did. You wrote it, I didn't.

The remainder of my post merely dealt with the truths of why we were attacked. Why Iraq when Saudis from Afghanistan fly a US plane piloted by an Egyptian into the World Trade Centers. You didn't seem to be aware of why, I was helping out.

What do you mean if? Was I bringing alien information into your camp, RG? And......Wikipedia? Really?

You are making like.....zero sense.

I can't wait. Cause....you sound like an expert on how most of these people end up in 'torture camps.'

I wasn't talking about people snatched off the battlefield planting IEDs, RadioGod. We're speaking to the three men waterboarded, your torture camp lingo isn't accurate, you appear to be winging it.

And you must understand the role Iraq played in the attacks on 9-11. Saddam didn't conspire with al-Qaeda to attack the United States, Iraq not responsible. Our policies on Iraq.....that were detailed and specified by Bin Laden in his declaration of war against the United States...was what unleashed his hatred. Our presence, our blockades and sanctions, our devastating economic restrictions. You did know this. Yes?

Ok, I'm not smart enough to reply to a multi-post, so I'll just give an answer normally. I was just making the point that the people we are waterboarding and torturing in other ways are not just a few people involved with 911. We do pick people up all the time out of all kinds of conflict areas and lock them away in CIA camps. Some are tortured. If you think we just waterboarded 3 people and left it at that, I want some of what you are smoking.
The other point I was making is that most of the people that end up in those interrogation centers are plucked from the Iraq and Afganistan areas. If the whole idea of torture being necessary comes from the 911 attacks, and none of the attackers were from there, what the hell?

I live with a profound happiness that can only be achieved by being hated by Mr.Veritis

Ok, I'm not smart enough to reply to a multi-post, so I'll just give an answer normally. I was just making the point that the people we are waterboarding and torturing in other ways are not just a few people involved with 911. We do pick people up all the time out of all kinds of conflict areas and lock them away in CIA camps. Some are tortured. If you think we just waterboarded 3 people and left it at that, I want some of what you are smoking.
The other point I was making is that most of the people that end up in those interrogation centers are plucked from the Iraq and Afganistan areas. If the whole idea of torture being necessary comes from the 911 attacks, and none of the attackers were from there, what the hell?

The enhanced interrogation techniques were not torture under US law at that time. When we need someone really tortured we turn them over to other nations like Jordan.

Ok, I'm not smart enough to reply to a multi-post, so I'll just give an answer normally. I was just making the point that the people we are waterboarding and torturing in other ways are not just a few people involved with 911. We do pick people up all the time out of all kinds of conflict areas and lock them away in CIA camps. Some are tortured. If you think we just waterboarded 3 people and left it at that, I want some of what you are smoking.
The other point I was making is that most of the people that end up in those interrogation centers are plucked from the Iraq and Afganistan areas. If the whole idea of torture being necessary comes from the 911 attacks, and none of the attackers were from there, what the hell?

Do you understand the term transnational terrorism? al Qaeda and ISIL are not Saudi terrorists, or terrorists of any other nation-state. That is where transnational comes in.

Do you understand the term transnational terrorism? al Qaeda and ISIL are not Saudi terrorists, or terrorists of any other nation-state. That is where transnational comes in.

Oh, I get it. The post just had to do with 911 specifically. Things have gotten way out of control since then. I do understand that just because someone carries a passport from a specific country, they are not acting on behalf of that country. Just like when some Russian company runs ads against Hillary, they are not acting on behalf of the Russian government. Or when some US citizen shoots up a school, that's not on behalf of the US government.

I live with a profound happiness that can only be achieved by being hated by Mr.Veritis