I agree, better than BvS, but not without flaws. Flash is probably the highlight of the movie. The big bad monster was dumb and so were the cubes.

I'll type more when I'm on a computer. But did watson just spoil everyone?! You guys had no idea Superman was going to show up, right?! The trailer had a scene with Alfred and he said "I knew you would come", was that not in the movie?

On a computer and can talk more. I went in with very very low expectations. Having said that, I think it is better than the current RT score and much better than the 5.3/10 grade it has. It was on par with the weakest of the Marvel movies, like a Thor 2 or Iron Man 2.

SPOILERS TO FOLLOWI think Flash was the best part of the film. Ezra Miller seems to play the same character in every movie he does, but it worked as Barry Allen. I agree with Watson that Flash's reaction to Superman was possibly the best scene of the movie.

The first half of the movie dragged a little bit since we had to get all of the back stories in. I found myself not caring about Cyborg at all and was annoyed by him quite a bit actually. His powers weren't explained very well (or at all).

The plot was interesting in that there was no sub-plot, other than the Russian family we were suppose to care about?

Marvel is great about connecting all of their movies, I felt this was trying way too hard when it kept referencing things from Wonder Woman. It doesn't feel so bad with Marvel because they have dozens of movies to reference, but DCEU only has WW so it kept making call backs to that.

Like I said above, the big bad and his powerful cubes were dumb. I am tired of these comic book movies fighting a word destroyer that is made up of things that they try to explain but no one cares. Superman also is proven to be more powerful than the whole team combined.

Last point. CGI everywhere. Standing in a cornfield, CGI. Cop cars in the background, 2007 video game CGI. Superman's face, CGI (because he had a mustache during filming and had to hide it).

I wanted to give extra thoughts on each character after thinking on it over the weekend.

Batman. I'm a Batman fan, but he has no place on this team. Batman's role for the Justice League is to be the guy with the plan. He does this most of the movie, but it seems like he is giving this role to Diana. Does Batman not have a role in the future? He can barely hold his own when he's with his teammates. They can kill hundreds of the bug guys and he can only take out a dozen or so once he gets his hands on their gun. I guess we are suppose to think he is getting too old for this?

Flash. Power is super speed. Does he have super healing/strength too? In the CW show Barry has all of these powers, but this movie doesn't explain anything other than he runs fast and has a nice suit. Also, there should be no debate he is faster than Superman. If Superman is faster than The Flash, THE ONE THING HE IS SUPPOSE TO BE THE BEST AT, then what is the point of The Flash? "My name's Barry Allen, I'm the fastest person after Superman"

Wonder Woman. Not many things to complain about here, other than she also seems to have the power of The Flash now? WW was powerful in her movie, but the opening scene with her stopping the bullets while protecting the hostages made her seem to be just as fast at Flash.

Aquaman. He was cool and that's about it. Your character can't just be "cool" and nothing else. Was it cool when he drank a 1/5th of booze and walked into the violent ocean while that music played? Yes, it was really cool, but what else does he have to offer? I'm sure he will become more of a character during his movie, but I didn't think he offered much to the movie. I'm sure a lot of people thought the lasso scene was hilarious, but I thought it was kind of cheesy.

Superman. Did the mother cube (still a dumb name) give him extra powers? He was powerful in BvS, but he is insane in this movie. He characters an entire apartment complex when The Flash just pushed a pickup. That was a funny scene, but it really made me question just how strong he was. It's shocking that Batman was able to hold his own at all in BvS, even with the help of kryptonite because Superman seems more powerful than the entire JL x2.

Cyborg. Probably the most useless character and completely forgettable. Like I said before, his powers are never explained and he doens't understand them either. It's almost like he has Iron Giant's powers and guns automatically appear when he feels threatened. It's a plot point that Batman's jet can't fly fast enough to reach the bad guy, but Cyborg says "it can if I"m driving" and then is just shows him hanging out in the cargo area of the plane. What did you do that made it faster?!

Tyler wrote:The first half of the movie dragged a little bit since we had to get all of the back stories in. I found myself not caring about Cyborg at all and was annoyed by him quite a bit actually. His powers weren't explained very well (or at all).

The plot was interesting in that there was no sub-plot, other than the Russian family we were suppose to care about?

Marvel is great about connecting all of their movies, I felt this was trying way too hard when it kept referencing things from Wonder Woman. It doesn't feel so bad with Marvel because they have dozens of movies to reference, but DCEU only has WW so it kept making call backs to that.

Like I said above, the big bad and his powerful cubes were dumb. I am tired of these comic book movies fighting a word destroyer that is made up of things that they try to explain but no one cares. Superman also is proven to be more powerful than the whole team combined.

Last point. CGI everywhere. Standing in a cornfield, CGI. Cop cars in the background, 2007 video game CGI. Superman's face, CGI (because he had a mustache during filming and had to hide it).

I think most of the flaws you point out are due to Zach Snyder "leaving" and Joss Whedon taking over. The storyline of Steppenwolf and the Mother Boxes is supposed to bring on Darkseid. But he's only mentioned once... what about the giant OMega sign burnt into the ground in Bruce's nightmare, also when did Barry go back to say hey, Lois is the key. Was it something that really happened or was it all a dream?

The Mother Cubes are very powerful, but tackling this story in one movie instead of the planned 2 movies... was dumb. You left too many holes. Steppenwolf isn't very deep of a character because he's Darkseid's bitch. But they didn't even touch on Darkseid.

Nope... totally don't need him. He's a poor man's Tony Stark. Honestly, they didn't use Batman correctly in the film. Batman's role in the Justice League, besides funding it, is that he's the detective. Part of his power is his mind, figuring things out before they happen. He's just there to put the team together after Lex Luthor told him to do so.

Tyler wrote:Flash. Power is super speed. Does he have super healing/strength too? In the CW show Barry has all of these powers, but this movie doesn't explain anything other than he runs fast and has a nice suit. Also, there should be no debate he is faster than Superman. If Superman is faster than The Flash, THE ONE THING HE IS SUPPOSE TO BE THE BEST AT, then what is the point of The Flash? "My name's Barry Allen, I'm the fastest person after Superman"

There is an on-going fued/inside joke/whatever you want to call it... where Superman and the Flash clash over who is faster. In the past DC comics, they have had races around the world, typically where they both run, not where Flash runs and Supes flies. Its been brought up on Smallville too. Where they mostly have ended in a tie... Flash uses teh speed force, which allows him to bend time. Superman can not be every where at one time, so Flash is in Central City and Superman is in Metropolis. I thought you read comics.

Tyler wrote:Wonder Woman. Not many things to complain about here, other than she also seems to have the power of The Flash now? WW was powerful in her movie, but the opening scene with her stopping the bullets while protecting the hostages made her seem to be just as fast at Flash.

I think due to the success of Wonder Woman, they are using her too much. They are giving her roles that would explain the usefulness of other characters. She's super smart now, so you don't need Batman... she's the leader and uber powerful, so you don't need Superman... if she breathes underwater, you won't need Aquaman. The issue with this Zach Snyder DC world is that the heroes are too powerful, they seem to have zero flaws or weak points. After the destruction Superman caused in Man of Steel, who would Batman contend with him in BvS? These heroes have weaknesses for a reason... these weaknesses are the reason they became a League. Together they are more powerful than being alone. The movie touches on this but doesn't truly speak to the notion.

Tyler wrote:Aquaman. He was cool and that's about it. Your character can't just be "cool" and nothing else. Was it cool when he drank a 1/5th of booze and walked into the violent ocean while that music played? Yes, it was really cool, but what else does he have to offer? I'm sure he will become more of a character during his movie, but I didn't think he offered much to the movie. I'm sure a lot of people thought the lasso scene was hilarious, but I thought it was kind of cheesy.

Um... Just because your Batman is lame and always has been... leave Aquaman alone. Yeah, he is wicked cool. Don't see Batman riding a Parademon through a building then flipping his hair after the building collapses behind him. I thought what they didd with Aquaman was awesome. The lasso scene was hilarious and way needed. He's trying to be this tough guy, but starts to share his feeling.... c'mon, it was a great scene., added some depth to the character too. Aquaman is portrayed as the butt of all jokes in the comics. Not now. He's simply the best thing about this movie.

Tyler wrote:Superman. Did the mother cube (still a dumb name) give him extra powers? He was powerful in BvS, but he is insane in this movie. He characters an entire apartment complex when The Flash just pushed a pickup. That was a funny scene, but it really made me question just how strong he was. It's shocking that Batman was able to hold his own at all in BvS, even with the help of kryptonite because Superman seems more powerful than the entire JL x2.

I have to wonder if they totally redid ALL of Superman's parts. There wasn't one scene where his face didn't look weird due to the bad CGI of the moustache. In the animated movies and the comics, Superman is an all powerful being. When the League has to take him on, they basically get their butts kicked. I think Superman has morphed over the years into something too powerful, it would have been cool had they made him less powerful after coming back... you know, they made a comment that sometimes when you die you lose something.

Tyler wrote:Cyborg. Probably the most useless character and completely forgettable. Like I said before, his powers are never explained and he doens't understand them either. It's almost like he has Iron Giant's powers and guns automatically appear when he feels threatened. It's a plot point that Batman's jet can't fly fast enough to reach the bad guy, but Cyborg says "it can if I"m driving" and then is just shows him hanging out in the cargo area of the plane. What did you do that made it faster?!

yeah, I've never gotten the appeal of Cyborg. In the animated movies and comics, after they made the Mother Box his origin story, his body protects itself and morphs overnight like that. With both Cyborg and Flash seemingly brand new to what they can do, it would make sense that they aren't fully aware of what they can do. Cyborg said he has too much information to process at this time. I think they try to explain his powers more later.

One overall flaw that I have with the DCEU... Avengers was amazing because you did a stand alone origin story for all the major players of the team plus had an overall story arc that broght it all together. Justice League did orgin stories to this one big event to break off into solo movies. Granted, if I wasn't a fan of comic books, I don't know if I'd go see a stand alone Flash or Cyborg movie. Jason Momoa as Aquaman has me intrigued, if I wasn't a super fan of Aquaman, I'd still go but it wouldn't be as big to me. DCEU should have taken the blueprint Marvel set out... stand alones to major movie not major movie to stand alones.

Overall, I thought this movie was fun. Characters such as Aquaman and Cyborg finally getting screne time was amazing. Kinda burnt out on Barry Allen with the CW and Movie versions, you can only do so much with a guy who can run fast, but Ezra Miller's take on him was pretty amazing. He seemed young, vulnerable, and awkward... just like many kids in the world today. He seems most relatable to me. I LOVE the Jason Momoa Aquaman. I thought the lasso scene was much needed for his character as they portrayed him as this huge douche, this allowed you to understand where he is... no one wants him. He's a loner because Atlantis doesn't want him, the people of the land don't want him. So, he is more of a loner drifter type. The character has been the butt of so many joke for far too long. I like Jason's tough guy take on him. I don't think they did enough to explain Cyborg. Much like the Flash, it seemed he was new to being what he was and unaware of his powers. He makes a statement about having too much infomration to sift through at this time, but gave no back story on what he's been up to lately. Superman and Wonder Woman are way too powerful. I know they are very powerful in the animated world, but they needed to be taken down a peg for the movie. Why team up with anyone when no one can beat you. I thought Steppenwolf was too shallow of a villian. So his sole motivation was just world domination? I believe the Mother Boxes and Steppenwolf are just the first phases of bringing Darkseid. Darkseid is the Marvel's Apocolypse of DC. He was one reason why the Justice League was formed in the comics. You could totally tell what parts were Zach and what was Joss, especially when Superman was there. He had a weird blur on his face. I thought the Justice League was to be two films. This storyline is too vast to contain in just one movie. You don't get enough of Steppenwolf's motivation, or the empending doom coming. It was a great try, where it hit on some parts, it missed on others.

Well put Hayes. I agree with almost all of that. I think it's safe to say the movie felt disjointed because of the 2 directors, but we will never know for certain.

I know flash vs Superman is a long running comic thing. My issue with it wasn't related to the movie in general, but the history of the characters. Let Flash be better at one thing than Superman.

Podcast said they filmed JL immediately after WW. I'm curious if they adjusted her character because of the success of her movie (like giving her so much power) or if WW came out after filming finished

Saw this on Saturday night. DC has done such a poor job with these movies. I wanted to like it, I really did, but the writing was just so bad.

A small thing, but a really good example of what I mean is when we first see Wonder Woman. She lassos one of the bad guys but rather than going right into the interrogation, she says "This is the lasso of truth, it compels you to tell the truth..." You don't have to say that. You wouldn't say that in the situation. Had you not said that, would the lasso not work? It's little things like this that ruin movies.

Lots of attempts at comedic relief and no one in the theater even reacted to them. They all fell flat. The only one that kind of worked was when WW sneakily used the lasso on Aquaman. Every other attempt at comedy was bad.

Superman is way too powerful. Once he joined the others, there was literally no risk of failure. He beat the hell out of Steppenwolf instantly and with ease. He was also super cocky about it. All the slow motion of him fighting with a smirk on his face was annoying. Also, shave your damn mustache and grow a new one for your other dumb movie.

Steppenwolf, as has been said, was a super shallow villain. No real motivation for taking over the world except that he wants to be a dik4. It reminded me of the Fantastic 4 movie from years ago where Dr. Doom reveals himself as the enemy and then is immediately defeated, but at least with that we knew his origin. And is Steppenwolf dead now? Are he and his bug minions just going to be a potential threat forever because they got sucked back into space and could return at any time? Where are they coming from/going to when they get sucked up into space? These are things the movie doesn't explain.

Things that were ok:Jason Momoa as Aquaman is really cool. I would watch an Aquaman stand alone or origin movie (but it would probably be bad, because DC). I also liked how they depicted Flash and the speed force. That kind of slow motion stuff is always neat to me, like how they did the same kind of thing with Quicksilver in the Avengers and X-men or Fry in that one episode of Futurama where he drinks 100 cups of coffee.

Sorry for always ranting about DC movies. I wouldn't be so disappointed if I didn't care so much/want to enjoy them. It's just that Marvel has done such a good job in making fun movies, then you watch these DC movies and I can't help but look at the time to see if it's going to be over soon.

They spent like 15 minutes talking about the risk and how people lose part of themselves when they are brought from the dead. He was pissed off for like 5 minutes, but he seemed to come back even more powerful. They could have done a lot more with this.

wags83 wrote:Source of the post "This is the lasso of truth, it compels you to tell the truth..." You don't have to say that.