I actually took a look at the Minny roster today, and boy, it's pretty bad.

I would argue that, on paper (and we've said this before), we're better than they are. Their lineup is pretty solid, but starters and bullpen are weak. I have no idea who their 4th and 5th starters are, and after Nathan, that BP sucks too.

I complain about our team, and of course we're not very good either, but I just don't see how the Twins could be favored to do anything this year.

Take a look: Twinkies (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/roster?team=min)

We have a better lineup, better starters, and our bullpen is probably better as well.

whitesoxwilkes

04-06-2004, 09:42 PM

Two injuries for the Twinkies tonight--Joe Mauer leaves with a sprained knee and Johan Santana left with a sore elbow.

Win1ForMe

04-06-2004, 09:49 PM

The weak get weaker. If I weren't conditioned to expect the worst, I would probably pick us to win this division by 10 games.

Daver

04-06-2004, 09:56 PM

Originally posted by Win1ForMe

We have a better lineup, better starters, and our bullpen is probably better as well.

Yeah,the Sox bullpen proved it yesterday.

Win1ForMe

04-06-2004, 09:58 PM

Originally posted by Daver
Yeah,the Sox bullpen proved it yesterday.

Well, I'm not counting on Marte being horrible for the entire season. If he is, then my previous statement would obviously be incorrect.

cheeses_h_rice

04-06-2004, 09:59 PM

I think the phrase "the Sox are better than ____ on paper" ought to be banned from WSI entirely.

jeremyb1

04-06-2004, 10:08 PM

Originally posted by Win1ForMe
Well, I'm not counting on Marte being horrible for the entire season. If he is, then my previous statement would obviously be incorrect.

Hahaha. Well put.

OEO Magglio

04-06-2004, 10:13 PM

Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
I think the phrase "the Sox are better than ____ on paper" ought to be banned from WSI entirely.
I agree, the sox have been paper champions for way to long now.

cheeses_h_rice

04-06-2004, 10:18 PM

Twins just tied it 6-6 in the 9th.

Un****ingbelievable.

SoxxoS

04-06-2004, 10:19 PM

The Twins just tied the game in the bottom of the ninth, with their last at bat, on a 2 run homer by Jones.

KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT

Win1ForMe

04-06-2004, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
Twins just tied it 6-6 in the 9th.

Un****ingbelievable.

You beat me to it. With 2 outs too. :whiner:

ChiSox7

04-06-2004, 10:19 PM

The Twins are just amazing. They find ways to win. It's so frustrating. 2 outs in teh bottom of the ninth, down two, and Jacque Jones, who doesnt have a hit all season, hits a HR to tie it up. THat crap just doesn't happen to us.

SoxxoS

04-06-2004, 10:20 PM

David Riske has no business being a major league closer.

Win1ForMe

04-06-2004, 10:20 PM

But Cleveland is winning this game. Mark it down.

cheeses_h_rice

04-06-2004, 10:21 PM

It's games like this that really hammer home the fact that the Twins are by FAR my most hated team in our division.

Going to extra frames...go Jndjans, I guess.

SoxxoS

04-06-2004, 10:22 PM

If they win again this is the worst start to the season I have ever been a part of in my 21 years on this earth.

duke of dorwood

04-06-2004, 10:22 PM

They are still the team to beat-clutch hitting, bullpen and defense. REmember, we have had a better team over them on paper before. They have overachievers, we dont

anewman35

04-06-2004, 10:27 PM

Originally posted by SoxxoS
If they win again this is the worst start to the season I have ever been a part of in my 21 years on this earth.

Come on, it's been 2 days, deal.

Besides, I think it's been proven pretty clearly that we don't have the worst bullpen ever. We don't even have the worst pen in the division!

SoxxoS

04-06-2004, 10:27 PM

On a related note, the new umpire uni's are horrible.

SoxxoS

04-06-2004, 10:28 PM

Originally posted by anewman35
Come on, it's been 2 days, deal.

Besides, I think it's been proven pretty clearly that we don't have the worst bullpen ever. We don't even have the worst pen in the division!

Dude, what happened yesterday hasn't happened in 103 years.

The Twins would win twice after they we're down in the middle innings...which proved they are still the same as the last two years...

The Cubs won. The Astros lost. etc....

It can't get any worse for a start.

cheeses_h_rice

04-06-2004, 10:29 PM

Originally posted by SoxxoS
If they win again this is the worst start to the season I have ever been a part of in my 21 years on this earth.

I just did some checking on baseball-reference.com, and it's uncanny how bad the Sox have been to start most seasons.

Our last decent start to a season was in 1994, when they went 9-5 after starting off 0-2. Every year after that, the Sox started down in the hole early on.

SoxxoS

04-06-2004, 10:31 PM

Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
I just did some checking on baseball-reference.com, and it's uncanny how bad the Sox have been to start most seasons.

Our last decent start to a season was in 1994, when they went 9-5 after starting off 0-2. Every year after that, the Sox started down in the hole early on.

And we have had a lot of success during the past 10 years...

Not exactly easing my fears, cheeses.

SoxxoS

04-06-2004, 10:32 PM

Cressend is pretty solid, hopefully he can hold the Twins here.

cheeses_h_rice

04-06-2004, 10:33 PM

Originally posted by SoxxoS
And we have had a lot of success during the past 10 years...

Not exactly easing my fears, cheeses.

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I think the schedules now are much more weighted toward intradivisional games, so all the Sox have to do is TCB in the ALC, something which they just haven't done the past few years. Plenty of ball to be played, but it'd be nice to get some help from these stupid Jndjans!

ma-gaga

04-06-2004, 10:39 PM

Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
I think the phrase "the Sox are better than ____ on paper" ought to be banned from WSI entirely.

It really should. The Twins have a better 3rd baseman, god forbid a better 2nd baseman, and a better centerfielder.

The left fielders are a push, catchers are hard to tell, Mauer had a hell of a debut, but i don't know how bad his injury is. Konerko IS a better first baseman... at least before last year.

The Sox have obvious advantages at DH, SS and RF. Minny's bench is better. Minny has a better bullpen, and the starters are equal.

That leaves the coach and intangibles.

Look, these are two fairly evenly matched teams. As a stat geek, it bothers me to say that the Twins intangibles will probably be the difference between the two teams.

Nobody likes the Twins on paper because they feature a slick fielding weak hitting first baseman and nobody on their roster will hit 35 homers. But they aren't the crap fest that you insinuate either...

mmm... cressend

cheeses_h_rice

04-06-2004, 10:40 PM

How come you're not at the game, ma-gaga?

:)

SoxxoS

04-06-2004, 10:43 PM

Hafner is a big boy...

ma-gaga

04-06-2004, 10:43 PM

Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
How come you're not at the game, ma-gaga?

:)

baby.

:)

ma-gaga

04-06-2004, 10:54 PM

i mean... Baby:
http://www.tc.umn.edu/~dunca016/Arthur-Rocker.jpg

5 weeks old. Man, I'm tired. :smile:

*edit* ok... resized it.

cheeses_h_rice

04-06-2004, 10:56 PM

Cute boy, ma-gaga.

What's his name? Magglio?

SoxxoS

04-06-2004, 10:59 PM

Biggest picture...EVER.

Daver

04-06-2004, 11:00 PM

That boy might be a keeper.

Let me know when you need a custom made bow for him,I have connections.

:redneck

Win1ForMe

04-06-2004, 11:04 PM

So where's the ice fishing starter kit?

Win1ForMe

04-06-2004, 11:06 PM

Haha. Torii Hunter has also left the game with an injury.

fhqwhgads

04-06-2004, 11:07 PM

Now Torii's tweaked a hammy. Yeah, this new turf's really cutting down on the injuries... :angry:

SoxxoS

04-06-2004, 11:14 PM

Minnesota...leadoff double...games over.

What's next?

cheeses_h_rice

04-06-2004, 11:16 PM

Twins about to win it...man on 3rd, one out.

ma-gaga

04-06-2004, 11:19 PM

Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
Twins about to win it...man on 3rd, one out.

yes. but guzman was up. he's about as effective as a bad NL pitcher. strikeout. no surprise.

cheeses_h_rice

04-06-2004, 11:20 PM

OK, I'm still holding on...Twins didn't win it, after all.

SoxxoS

04-06-2004, 11:23 PM

Nice warning track power, Escobar.

cheeses_h_rice

04-06-2004, 11:31 PM

Corey Koskie just unleashed on one...............and came up *just* short.

I thought for sure it was gone.

Phew!

cheeses_h_rice

04-06-2004, 11:43 PM

11:43pm.

Time for bed.

(Though I know I'm going to wake up to a 2-0 Twins team.)

MRKARNO

04-06-2004, 11:46 PM

Guzman hits it into play and Jones is out at the plate!

MRKARNO

04-06-2004, 11:48 PM

And this game moves to the 15th. New life for cleveland

SoxxoS

04-06-2004, 11:50 PM

Twins get a little bit of White Sox disease and fail to score with men on 2nd and 3rd, no out.

For those not watching, there was one out, Guzman hit a ground ball to Hafner and Hafner threw out Jones at the plate. However, there were men on second and third, and the guy at second (offerman) DIDN'T MOVE. Stayed at second. Unbelieveable. I wish there would have been a wild pitch so he just advanced to third rather than score the winning run, lazy ass.

jabrch

04-07-2004, 12:11 AM

Bottom of the 15th - the Twins have used 7 RPs, 4 of which went 2 IP or more. Someone is gonna be tired tomorrow!

SoxxoS

04-07-2004, 12:13 AM

Who cares. They won. They know how to win games.

ChiSox7

04-07-2004, 12:14 AM

Originally posted by SoxxoS
Who cares. They won. They know how to win games.

Exactly. They are like the total opposite of us. It's so frustrating. Their bullpen has given up like 3 ER in 13 or 14 IP. We couldn't do that in 1 IP.

fhqwhgads

04-07-2004, 12:45 AM

Originally posted by SoxxoS
Who cares. They won. They know how to win games.

And NOW I can go to sleep.

The Twins have nearly played 3 full games already...

SEALgep

04-07-2004, 12:50 AM

Originally posted by fhqwhgads
And NOW I can go to sleep.

The Twins have nearly played 3 full games already... I watched it. I was upset they pulled these last two out, no doubt. Hopefully, and I'm not saying it necessarily will, this will tire out their pen for the next few series.

fhqwhgads

04-07-2004, 12:53 AM

Originally posted by SEALgep
I watched it. I was upset they pulled these last two out, no doubt. Hopefully, and I'm not saying it necessarily will, this will tire out their pen for the next few series.

They may go to AAA for pitchers because of this. There were at least two other pitchers (Crain and Nakamura) who were on the bubble at final cuts. Crain is the future closer for the Twins.

Rocklive99

04-07-2004, 02:17 AM

Yikes, wasn't the reason we were supposed to beat out Minny because of the "weakening" of their pen. Doesn't look bad to me so far. Oh well, keep the extra inning games, going, I guess it tires em a bit

Originally posted by SoxxoS
If they win again this is the worst start to the season I have ever been a part of in my 21 years on this earth.

This is bad, but I still remember the Cleveland 10-0 start. I forgot how many years ago it was, I'm thinking 2, 4 at the most.

santo=dorf

04-07-2004, 02:29 AM

Originally posted by Rocklive99
This is bad, but I still remember the Cleveland 10-0 start. I forgot how many years ago it was, I'm thinking 2, 4 at the most.

In 2002 they got off to an 11 game winning streak, then they were swepted by us at home.

gosox41

04-07-2004, 07:14 AM

Originally posted by Win1ForMe
I actually took a look at the Minny roster today, and boy, it's pretty bad.

I would argue that, on paper (and we've said this before), we're better than they are. Their lineup is pretty solid, but starters and bullpen are weak. I have no idea who their 4th and 5th starters are, and after Nathan, that BP sucks too.

I complain about our team, and of course we're not very good either, but I just don't see how the Twins could be favored to do anything this year.

Take a look: Twinkies (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/roster?team=min)

We have a better lineup, better starters, and our bullpen is probably better as well.

Just to play devil's advocate, we're two games in the season and already 1 1/2 games behind the Twins and the Tigers. YUCK.

Of course it's still early. Doesn't mean I want to win any less.

Bob

Iwritecode

04-07-2004, 09:21 AM

Originally posted by Rocklive99
Yikes, wasn't the reason we were supposed to beat out Minny because of the "weakening" of their pen. Doesn't look bad to me so far.

Well, facing the offensive juggernauts that are the Cleveland Indians, I can see why...

batmanZoSo

04-07-2004, 09:56 AM

Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
I just did some checking on baseball-reference.com, and it's uncanny how bad the Sox have been to start most seasons.

Our last decent start to a season was in 1994, when they went 9-5 after starting off 0-2. Every year after that, the Sox started down in the hole early on.

Guh?

How about 2000? After starting 0-2 we went 17-6 the rest of the month.

Or 2002, we finished April like 19-11.

Mickster

04-07-2004, 10:10 AM

Originally posted by OEO Magglio
I agree, the sox have been paper champions for way to long now.

The last few years the sox have been, on paper, what the Yankees really are... A Dynasty! :D:

cheeses_h_rice

04-07-2004, 10:38 AM

Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Guh?

How about 2000? After starting 0-2 we went 17-6 the rest of the month.

Or 2002, we finished April like 19-11.

I meant early on in the season, the first dozen or so games.

In 2000, we were 6-4; in 2002 we were 6-5.

My point was that the Sox have in recent history never gotten off to a truly hot start of the season. Even in 2000 we were 19-16 before catching fire.

batmanZoSo

04-07-2004, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
I meant early on in the season, the first dozen or so games.

In 2000, we were 6-4; in 2002 we were 6-5.

My point was that the Sox have in recent history never gotten off to a truly hot start of the season. Even in 2000 we were 19-16 before catching fire.

Oh. I do see your point.

Well one constant in recent years is starting off on a huge road trip. Taking that into account, .500 or a game over is a success in my book.

wdelaney72

04-07-2004, 02:31 PM

Forget how the Twins lineup looks on paper.

The Twins EVERY YEAR

1) Play fundamentally sound baseball
2) Have great team chemistry
3) Kick our ass when it counts
4) Have a good manager