Venus is almost 900 degrees Fahrenheit and the clouds are sulfuric acid. Even the most aggressive climate change models and their 20-foot ocean rises don't predict that for Earth, no matter how many Chevy Volts we don't buy.

I think the biggest red flag in his first part (assuming you weren't already familiar with how the greenhouse effect is involved with Venus) is how he never explains what the greenhouse effect is, what it means, how it works, or anything like that. He has no actual substance in that section. I kind of agree that the Giordano Bruno portion of Cosmos was a bit overstated, but not a crazy big deal, and of course there shouldn't be sound in space. But the sound in space section of this article seems to be thrown in so that it could have one thing correct to try and lend credence to the rest of his absurd ramblings. And I don't even know where to begin on that last part. Does he not know how metaphors work?

TheOmni:And I don't even know where to begin on that last part. Does he not know how metaphors work?

Fun fact about Chinese astrologists and scientists in antiquity. They felt that models and metaphors couldn't capture the real thing's essence well enough to be studied or used with accuracy, and that very likely prevented exploration and research into astronomical modeling, scale experimentation, etc.

Apparently he believes that dividing the sum of all time by a single number to produce a scaled model removes it's chi and prevents us from understanding the truth.

TheOmni:But the sound in space section of this article seems to be thrown in so that it could have one thing correct to try and lend credence to the rest of his absurd ramblings. And I don't even know where to begin on that last part. Does he not know how metaphors work?

I think that if he's serious about the sound in space thing, he has a world-class case of Asperger's, one worthy of lengthy study at a major research facility, a book, and a movie of the week.

If he's serious about that last part, he's probably suffered a stroke.

TheOmni:I think the biggest red flag in his first part (assuming you weren't already familiar with how the greenhouse effect is involved with Venus) is how he never explains what the greenhouse effect is, what it means, how it works, or anything like that. He has no actual substance in that section. I kind of agree that the Giordano Bruno portion of Cosmos was a bit overstated, but not a crazy big deal, and of course there shouldn't be sound in space. But the sound in space section of this article seems to be thrown in so that it could have one thing correct to try and lend credence to the rest of his absurd ramblings. And I don't even know where to begin on that last part. Does he not know how metaphors work?

Hmm. I wonder if this will be an insightful article, our just one of those overly-pedantic nerd rages...

"he thinks Venus is the way it is due to the greenhouse effect - which is another way of saying global warming. Venus is almost 900 degrees Fahrenheit and the clouds are sulfuric acid. Even the most aggressive climate change models and their 20-foot ocean rises don't predict that for Earth, no matter how many Chevy Volts we don't buy."

For those who might even for a moment think he has a point about Venus let me explain:

He is correct that CO2 did not cause the climate of Venus to rise to 900 degrees, but it was caused by a greenhouse effect and another greenhouse gas: water vapor.

Water vapor is actually a greater greenhouse gas than CO2 in terms of how effectively it traps heat. The reason we don't care about it too much on Earth is 1) the sun and the ocean create a whole lot more of it than we do, and 2) it rains, keeping the amount in the atmosphere fairly constant. The problem with Venus is that it was just too close to the Sun, so it didn't rain. So instead of cooling off and regulating the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere, it just got hotter, which meant more evaporation, which meant more vapor, which meant more trapped heat, which made it hotter... and so on until there was no surface water left on the planet and the atmosphere is thick and immensely hot. So yeah, Venus has a 900 degree surface temperature because of the greenhouse effect.

namatad:TheOmni: I think the biggest red flag in his first part (assuming you weren't already familiar with how the greenhouse effect is involved with Venus) is how he never explains what the greenhouse effect is, what it means, how it works, or anything like that. He has no actual substance in that section. I kind of agree that the Giordano Bruno portion of Cosmos was a bit overstated, but not a crazy big deal, and of course there shouldn't be sound in space. But the sound in space section of this article seems to be thrown in so that it could have one thing correct to try and lend credence to the rest of his absurd ramblings. And I don't even know where to begin on that last part. Does he not know how metaphors work?

The worst part is he's not even disputing that he was imprisoned and eventually executed. According to him it was just because he refused to recant his views that were contrary to those of the church...which apparently makes it perfectly okay to torture and execute a person.

Cybernetic:I did think it was odd that the show spent so much time on Bruno. But overall I thought the show was very good.

It highlights how much we take freedom of thought for granted -- and like the original Cosmos, it profiles lesser known historical figures. It's not Galileo and Pythagoras. It's Bruno and Eratosthenes.

StrangeQ:According to him it was just because he refused to recant his views that were contrary to those of the church...which apparently makes it perfectly okay to torture and execute a person.

That's missing the point, of course. The execution wasn't even the point, but the idea that you could reject the status quo is an important feature of science, that hadn't yet been embraced by the western world.

Venus is almost 900 degrees Fahrenheit and the clouds are sulfuric acid. Even the most aggressive climate change models and their 20-foot ocean rises don't predict that for Earth, no matter how many Chevy Volts we don't buy.

Conclusion: Venus' climate is not the result of global warmingdinosaurs.

Tyson assures us right away that we are to "question everything" so we have to ask why he thinks Venus is the way it is due to the greenhouse effect - which is another way of saying global warming. Venus is almost 900 degrees Fahrenheit and the clouds are sulfuric acid. Even the most aggressive climate change models and their 20-foot ocean rises don't predict that for Earth, no matter how many Chevy Volts we don't buy.

StrangeQ:The worst part is he's not even disputing that he was imprisoned and eventually executed. According to him it was just because he refused to recant his views that were contrary to those of the church...which apparently makes it perfectly okay to torture and execute a person.

Wrong. Find one single critic of Cosmos (and there are plenty; we've had by my count three threads on that just here at Fark within the past two days) who said that. One. And make it someone who actually said it, not something that your magic mind-reading powers allow you to perceive.

The problem is the lie."The Church opposed science. As proof, here's a guy who was executed by the Church for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with science, but we'll play with it until it looks like he kinda sorta might have been executed for something that if you squint at it right might bear some kind of resemblance to an attitude that is shared by scientists (and many non-scientists)."

DarnoKonrad:It's not Galileo and Pythagoras. It's Bruno and Eratosthenes.

Which was really the larger point of the whole story. Lost in the whining about how mean it was for telling the facts of the church's behavior is that the entire thing ends with the reminder that you don't HAVE to be Galileo or Einstein to help revolutionize science. You just have to have an idea and the thick skin to stand by it no matter what.

Yes, Galileo is the one that found indisputable visual proof of Copernican ideas, but before it was even possible to know for certain thanks to technological constraints, Bruno was flogging the idea mercilessly before increasingly hostile audiences even though he had to know it might (and ultimately did) literally cost him his life.

You don't have to be a scientist to change the world, you just have to have an inquisitive mind and a dedication to advancing human knowledge even in the face of those who would do everything they can to hold us back (for example, this blog writer). Science doesn't demand that you come to it with all the answers, or even the knowledge to find the answers. It only demands that you bring smart questions, even if it means you have to wait for someone else to formally investigate and answer them.

Son of Thunder:"The Church opposed science. As proof, here's a guy who was executed by the Church for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with science, but we'll play with it until it looks like he kinda sorta might have been executed for something that if you squint at it right might bear some kind of resemblance to an attitude that is shared by scientists (and many non-scientists)."

If you're just going to make things up out of thing air why should anybody continue talking to you?

skozlaw:Yes, Galileo is the one that found indisputable visual proof of Copernican ideas, but before it was even possible to know for certain thanks to technological constraints, Bruno was flogging the idea mercilessly before increasingly hostile audiences even though he had to know it might (and ultimately did) literally cost him his life.

He was also flogging around a bunch of craziness about Egyptian gods, mysticism, and other nonsense, which ultimately served to undermine Copernicus' ideas.

Bruno wasn't a scientist. That is even pointed out in Cosmos. He was just some guy who heard about a scientist's idea while smoking a joint and never came down off his high.

give me doughnuts:Venus' atmosphere is 96.5% carbon-dioxide.Water vapor measures in at 20 ppm, or 0.002%There is more argon or sulfur-dioxide than water.

Now. Water vapor occasionally breaks down to O2 and H2, when it does this, the Hydrogen gas is light enough to escape Venus's gravity, leaving forever. There is very little Hydrogen left on Venus to make water vapor from anymore.But don't trust me (or my bachelor's degree in astronomy):

Yeah, speaking of branes, I once mentioned something about us not being able to know what exists out side the universe, a comment that apparently gave a fellow farker hives. I was told to, "Study it out."

For the record, branes are above my pay grade. I'm more engineer-ish than physicist. Maybe NdGT will explain those damn things to me.

skozlaw:Yes, Galileo is the one that found indisputable visual proof of Copernican ideas, but before it was even possible to know for certain thanks to technological constraints, Bruno was flogging the idea mercilessly before increasingly hostile audiences even though he had to know it might (and ultimately did) literally cost him his life.

Except for the part where it didn't cost him his life. Going around telling everybody to drop Jesus and switch to a Greco-Egyptian mystery-religion cost him his life. Advocating Copernican astronomy was not a heresy in 1600, and the notion of Bruno as a free-thought martyr is entirely a construction of 19th-Century revisionists, no longer taken seriously by actual historians.

nmrsnr:Now. Water vapor occasionally breaks down to O2 and H2, when it does this, the Hydrogen gas is light enough to escape Venus's gravity, leaving forever. There is very little Hydrogen left on Venus to make water vapor from anymore.But don't trust me (or my bachelor's degree in astronomy):

Women are from Venus. Women are getting hotter. If science has taught me anything, it is that the only way to stop global warming is by filling the atmosphere with Axe black chill.

TheOmni:I think the biggest red flag in his first part (assuming you weren't already familiar with how the greenhouse effect is involved with Venus) is how he never explains what the greenhouse effect is, what it means, how it works, or anything like that.

For that matter, he doesn't explain why Venus is so hot. He just says it's not due to the greenhouse effect (without any reasons).

By the way, for anyone interested in the climates of planets in the solar system, including Venus, Mars, and the ancient Earth, as well as exoplanet climates, a really good book is How to Find a Habitable Planet.