What kind of retinue might an apothecary have?
Would he have perhaps guards in the form of marines?
Maybe apprentices?
or servitor/ human "nurses"

I am thinking in a more non battle field role, as the game seems to show they operate on their own, unless there is room to expand on this?

Brok

19-03-2005, 00:08

My guess would be trainee apothecaries and servitors. Trainees need experience and servitors are easy for menial tasks.

Kage2020

19-03-2005, 00:19

I would say that it depends on where they are... If they're actually at the regimental 'barracks', as it were, then they're going to have the support of the anciliary staff. On the other hand, if they're in the field then they're going to be on their own.

Personally i see them operating out of rhino ambulances, with some sort of crew and medical staff.

Lyonator

20-03-2005, 00:15

Medical servitors would be, in my mind, the majority of the retinue of an apoth, aside from a few trainees for his position/bodyguards to keep him safe.
<esp with the apoth heading into harms way for entire battles, he would likely need some help keeping himself alive, much less others>

As for nurses, I think that you would have to look at an IG or WH army to find any of those.

Ambulance Rhinos sound realistic as well.
<though this makes me want to chop one of my 'speeders and make an evac chopper like in the opening credits of MASH... but speeder style>

Rabid Bunny 666

20-03-2005, 00:59

i'd say 1 apothecary per company would equal roughly 10 servitors and any marines in the company training up for the apothecary job/role/thing

boogle

20-03-2005, 03:37

i think Medi Skulls would be more likely than Servitors

the_yuk

20-03-2005, 05:55

MAybe theyd be accompineied by some marines with basic medical training as assistents or something. Glad i inspired a conversion, just make sure you post it on here if you ever get around to makeing it sounds cool.

Inquisitor DreaxIV

20-03-2005, 06:16

I would think it would be some marine aprentices, a bunch of servitors(more servs than marine aprentices) all in a Rhino with the Apothecary

sigur

20-03-2005, 11:23

An Apothekary's most important job is to secure the genetic material of fallen SM's to be able to train new battle brothers, so I don't see them in the classic "medic" role. Space Marines can take a lot of punishment before they really die. Sure, they also give first aid immediatly if there's the need for it, but the most important part is the walk across the battlefield to collect the genetic material of the fallen.

the_yuk

24-03-2005, 23:34

But they could wait until the battles ove to collect the genetic materila, i mean those dead marines are unlikley to go anywhere.

Mother_Mercy

30-03-2005, 14:00

Space Marines can take a lot of punishment before they really die.

You do realise what a bad-ass mother the head Apothecary has to be? I mean, he's the guy who they call on when they wheel in the really messed-up marines.

I've got this picture of a torch-lit chamber, swarming with servitors, servo-skulls and human servants. On a slab of stone like a sacrifical victim lies a wounded marine, and at the head stands this giant like a cross between a surgeon and a high priest, wearing a double servo-harness. Chainsaws, needles and drills are stabbing into the patient while a choir in the background chants and burns incense.

TheSonOfAbbadon

30-03-2005, 15:07

How do you know the marine is wounded? He could be having a marine implant inserted.

An apothercy [sp?] may have some sisters of the Ordo Hospitallers, or whatever its called, for his 'gang'.

Laspistol

01-04-2005, 11:56

I can't see Marines being followed around by the Sisters in any normal circumstances. You have to remember that the Marines and the Echlisiarchy don't get along due to religious difference - blood sacrifice and Marines being a "desicration of the Holy Human Form" and whatnot.

I agree with Sigur that the Apothecary on the battlefield is spending most of his time collecting progenoids, as it's his main job rather than healing.

A Marine dosen't need a great deal of first aid, as their wounds heal over very quickly so they essentially do it themselves, giving the Apothecary the time he needs to collect the future of the Chapter.

So, keeping this in mind, I'd imagine he either wouldn't have a retinue so he can move around as fast as possible or it would be as small as is practical.

I'm not adverse to seeing Apothecaries have ambulance Rhinos, but that's really more a Rule of Cool thing. If I was an Apoth I'de probably have a bike.

Sai-Lauren

01-04-2005, 12:27

Agree, no sisters hospitallier. If they're anywhere, they're at refugee stations near warzones, or at best on loan to the guard field hospitals (if as nothing more than an "angel of mercy" - a soft, kindly face for a dying man).

I've never really liked the fascination GW has had with putting one of each specialist at company command level for marines - one officer, one chaplain, one apothecary and so on, but then again I've always considered a 1000 marine chapter to be ten companies of ten squads of ten marines, then company and chapter command, vehicle/ship crews, techmarines and medics, dreadnoughts and invalided veterans to teach the scouts all on top.

So I would say that IMO, apothecaries would almost certainly have access to (possibly unarmed) rhino field surgeries and so on, so they can virtually take a badly wounded marine, chop off what won't heal, fit a standard bionic replacement (one that'll interface with their nervous system easily, they can have a more-effective customised part fitted later), top up their blood and hand them a new ammo clip as they walk out the hatch, ready to rejoin their squad half a mile down the road from the last battle. It'd be a very rare marine who actually has to be evac'd to HQ/orbital assets for medical care, probably only prospective-dreadnought pilots.
The chapter's master apothecary would certainly have servo-skulls, servitor assistants and so on, but he's very unlikely to leave the chapter's base. One or two field apothecaries might also have a servo-skull for assistance, but servitors might be considered as too slow for field duties. Jump packs and bikes are almost certainly order of the day.

Minister

02-04-2005, 10:33

Any ancillary staff would, along with those apothecaries from the Chapter Headquarters who are not attached to or integrated with the companies in the field, most likely act more in a field hospital style rather than as ambulance medics. A key part of Marine combat doctrine is aerial and orbital superiority, so an insertion by transport or drop pod (Dawn of War style for those who have seen it) of a prefab med centre would be likely. All staff involved would be Chapter staff. Med Skulls are documented, as are servitors, who would act to provide the role of nurses/surgical assistants.

If a Marine can't be put on his feet, he will be stablised by a combination of the Apothecaries in the field, the sus-an and the armour systems. Those such as these are dealt with after the battle is won, reflectig the Marine mentality of victory being more important than any warrior.

Delicious Soy

03-04-2005, 12:20

I'd say the Apothecarion in the Fortress Monastery/Flagship/whatever is staffed by a large group of chapter serfs that serve as orderlies. But in the field, SM medical treatment seems to be reliant on the endurance of the marines themselves.

TheSonOfAbbadon

03-04-2005, 17:03

Well, with a second heart, the sus-an membrane, black carapace and all the other implants I doubt Marines really need medical attention.

Brother Othorio

14-04-2005, 23:49

I've never really liked the fascination GW has had with putting one of each specialist at company command level for marines - one officer, one chaplain, one apothecary and so on

ditto! give me the RT lists: 0-1 Master of the Apothecarion and 0-8* Field Medics any day

*okay i think that varied by army, but was usually 5-10 i think

Well, with a second heart, the sus-an membrane, black carapace and all the other implants I doubt Marines really need medical attention.

Tell that to Mr. Plasmacannon :D (also not all chapters have the sus-an membrance)

Sai-Lauren

15-04-2005, 15:52

ditto! give me the RT lists: 0-1 Master of the Apothecarion and 0-8* Field Medics any day

I guess they got limited because otherwise it could be a little easy to power game (one hero tooled up for combat and/or an assault squad, plus loads of apothecaries around giving multiple saves), but I'd still like to see a kind of company command HQ option - fixed cost for a low level officer, an apothecary and possibly either something like a company standard bearer, upgrading one squad leader to master sergeant (RT list meant you had to have a librarian, which doesn't really reflect their rarity) (say veteran sergeant with a higher wargear allowance, or maybe terminator honours included), or maybe a techmarine or something.

And that wasn't my quote to direct Mr Plasma Cannon at ;)
D'OH! that'll teach me to cut and paste 'quote' (oddly i can definatel recall typing out TheSonOfAbaddon.. i wonder where it went..)

Jmitchell

15-04-2005, 21:56

They are'nt used primarily in a medical role, their reponsible for continuation of the chapters existence.

Therefore 1 Apothercary, 1-2 Neophytes in training and then a host of medical servitors. They would operate on fortress monastery, conducting the physical tests on new neophytes and implanting recovered geneseed.

So in battle there would be only one apothecary with the sole duty of collecting geneseed from fallen marines.

If used in game terms i would imagine a techmarine accompanied by servitors in a rhino, but performing a medical role.

Brother Othorio

16-04-2005, 03:28

They are'nt used primarily in a medical role, their reponsible for continuation of the chapters existence.

~

If used in game terms i would imagine a techmarine accompanied by servitors in a rhino, but performing a medical role.

the problem with that idea is that the codex (not to mention probably every bit of apothecary fluff ever written) states otherwise, the codex basically says when marine suffers a nasty wound the apothecary comes along and uses his vast medical skills to try and save him, if he is unable to he administers the Emperors Blessing, then removes the geneseed.. given the fine line between injury and death surely it would be the same person dealing with both?

Sir Charles

22-04-2005, 00:01

The pic. of marines in combat in the BGB shows an Apothecary working on a marine with a few human assistants holding the marine down, make of that what you will

Flame Boy

23-04-2005, 16:53

I think having a servo-skull assitant would make a nice piece of warhear to an Apothecary. In the same way the servitor technicians help a Techmarine carry out repairs in hostile enviroments, I could see a servo-skull or two keeping a wounded space marine in a stable condition while an Apothecary is working on someone else.

Sojourner

23-04-2005, 17:04

Ahem. Apothecaries aren't doctors. In a sense, they're executioners. And biochemists, as they also oversee the creation process. If a space marine is bad enough that it won't heal by itself, he's probably going to die.

Brother Othorio

23-04-2005, 20:46

Ahem. Apothecaries aren't doctors. In a sense, they're executioners. And biochemists, as they also oversee the creation process. If a space marine is bad enough that it won't heal by itself, he's probably going to die.

that just.. doesnt make any sense with the existing fluff whatsoever, it would if marines the apothecarion just took a dead marines finger and used it to grow 100 clones of him, but they dont, i seem to recall the numbers going around about 15 recruits making it as far as the Scout company for every 10 progenoids recovered, simply letting marines die because they had injuries that required medical attention would result in a chapter dying out pretty quick