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New Member

So Samuel spoke all the words of the Lord to the people who were asking him for a king.
He said, "Here are the policies of the king who will rule over you: he will conscript your sons and put them in his chariot forces and in his cavalry; they will run in front of his chariot. He will appoint for himself leaders of thousands and leaders of fifties, as well as those who plow his ground, reap his harvest, and make his weapons of war and his chariot equipment. He will take your daughters to be ointment makers, cooks, and bakers. He will take your best fields and vineyards and give them to his own servants. He will demand a tenth of your seed and of the produce of your vineyards and give it to his administrators and his servants. He will take both your male and female servants, as well as your best cattle and your donkeys, and assign them for his own use. He will demand a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will be his servants.
In that day you will cry out because of your king whom you have chosen for yourselves, but the Lord won't answer you in that day.

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Banned

As government intrudes in our lives more and more, interesting to go back and read Samuel.

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Government intrusion into our lives increased tremendously during the Bush administration. He trashed many of our constitutional rights by making it legal (or government policy) to:

1) Hold American citizens without charging them with a crime for an indeterminate period of time. In other words, he took away our right of Habeas Corpus,

2) Allow the Cia, FBI, local police to break into our home without a search warrant or even just cause,

3) Allow the government to tap our telephones once again without a warrant or just cause.

These things have been done to "protect us from terrorism." That's exactly the tactic Hitler used to gain control over the German people. NOW is the time to regain our constitutional freedoms. I believe President Obama will work to do that.

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Well-Known Member

Government intrusion into our lives increased tremendously during the Bush administration. He trashed many of our constitutional rights by making it legal (or government policy) to:

1) Hold American citizens without charging them with a crime for an indeterminate period of time. In other words, he took away our right of Habeas Corpus,

2) Allow the Cia, FBI, local police to break into our home without a search warrant or even just cause,

3) Allow the government to tap our telephones once again without a warrant or just cause.

These things have been done to "protect us from terrorism." That's exactly the tactic Hitler used to gain control over the German people. NOW is the time to regain our constitutional freedoms. I believe President Obama will work to do that.

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A) BaptistBeliever is absolutely correct that Bush instituted these things.

B) There's no evidence, and no reason, to believe that Obama will change any of them.

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Banned

"Those who would trade in their freedom for their protection deserve neither." " Those who give up their liberty for more security neither deserve liberty... - Benjamin Franklin

but in this day and age, I have no problem with the CIA and FBI tapping my phone to catch terrorist.

I will never forget those 3,000 who were murdered in 2001

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So, it's OK with you if you should come home and find that your home has been broken into by the CIA for no cause? This literally happened to a friend of mine who was targetted because he was seen on the street with suspected terrorists (no proof). In fact, he was evangelizing. Do you put NO VALUE on FREEDOM. I suppose the country has changed since the days of the Sons of LIBERTY. What do we have left if we have no freedom?

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Banned

If the CIA/FBI had a valid reason to break into my home to stop terrorist, I would understand.
You see, I do not only think of self, I consider what is best for my neighbors as well.

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The nation's founders wrote a constitution and a Bill of rights which define what is legal in America. When you start saying that it's OK to trample on those rights if the secret police deem it acceptable, you start to give up our freedom. What else do we have when that goes? I'll stand with Patrick Henry when he said:
Give me liberty or give me death.

They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength but irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable--and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come.

It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace--but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

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