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Is it time we left the EU

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LE

What wit the Greece Meltdown and now a tax being implemented from Brussels, are we in serious danger of being swallowed in to a never ending call to bail out shite countries. Also if a tax is to be raised surely the Sovereign State should do this not Brussels

LE

We need to get a grip. It is fine for trade, but a political United States of Europe is where it is headed and is wrong. We should get out of any political/legal/etc. agreements and focus financially on trade benefits.

Easier said than done - possibly impossible to achieve given the Lisbon treaty etc. Or just do what the French do, only implement what they want and f*** the rest of Europe if they don't like it.

LE

LE

I was involved in the intro of the euro way back when at one of the big Foreign Exchange banks. We thought it would fail then and I am surprised it has taken this long.

I expected the Italians to bail out first.

One of the consultants we employed was ex US Army - he was a former derivatives trader and made a packet in the 80's - it was his view that the euro would tank in eventually. His simple point was that economic conditions in a place like southern Italy would never be the same as Northern Germany and that the euro was erroneously based on the fundamentals of the US dollar, so for example if you are unemployed in Nevada - you can readily re-locate to find work in California.

This is not the case with the euro.

That was before basket case economies like Greece (Malta etc etc) lied their way in to the currency by putting up fraudulent public accounts.

IIRC, we had contingency plans to back it out back then - just apply some fixed cross rates and junk the thing. Good money making opportunity for the traders.

If I was involved in the negotiations, I would be demanding real assurance, like Greek government property as collateral. I will cover your debt until you pay it back, ( not write it off) albeit at a huge interest rate to cover my risk, but I will now own your parliamentary building until you clear your debt  you can still use it, but I will charge rent of USD 1mm for you to do so, or I will turn it into a Hooters franchise I would also like all your naval vessels at scrap value to cover my risk, you may also rent these or Ill sell em for scrap to the Chinese.

Frankly, I'd then convert their parliament building into a casino/ nightclub/ Hooters complex with hoards of russian hookers and Romanian pickpockets for the Chinese.

I am uncomfortable with debt write offs, especially for a feckless nation like Greece  sod em, make em squeal and then their grandchildren will suffer the consequences of their largesse.

Grandpa, why are all the schools, trains and buses owned by German banks .. because I p*ssed your inheritance up against the wall with my pension provision, thats why son.

Osborne should be popping smoke and screaming "driver reverse" down the intercom - get the feck out and now. Let the lazy, overpaid europeans sort their own socialist mess out.

LE

Brussels is deluded and unworkable. I for one don't think we will have to leave the EU because I believe that the current model will bust apart in the next 18 months. Big thanks to Greece there (credit to Italy, Spain and Portugal. Rep of Ireland are trying really hard to do the right thing IMO)

I believe in free trade and a Euro trading zone - the rest of the EU infrastructure is as corrupt and disfunctional as any "political" body in the world today. How we can lecture Russia and China on their style of democracy when we are members of such a Soviet system ourselves is beyond me.

Old-Salt

I think that it's long past the time when we should have left the EU. I don't think that it will ever happen, because Cameron and the other gutless wonders in the Conservative party are too scared of the Limp Dim Eurofanatics.

LE

I think that it's long past the time when we should have left the EU. I don't think that it will ever happen, because Cameron and the other gutless wonders in the Conservative party are too scared of the Limp Dim Eurofanatics.

Old-Salt

I think that it's long past the time when we should have left the EU. I don't think that it will ever happen, because Cameron and the other gutless wonders in the Conservative party are too scared of the Limp Dim Eurofanatics.

LE

All Greek public and private sector workers get 14 salaries a year, a structure aimed at keeping basic monthly salaries, and the pensions that are based on them, low.

Half a month's extra salary is paid at Easter and another half during the summer. The 14th salary is paid to civil servants at Christmas when the whole economy is geared to consuming it; taxis, restaurants and hairdressers are legally allowed to charge extra as "a Christmas present".

The state owns 74 companies, mainly utilities and transport firms, many of which are overstaffed and loss-making, the OECD says. The main rail company employs about 9,000 people and reported losses of 800 million euros in 2008.

OK, it's from the Mail bu WTF

Incredibly, the average salary on Greeces railways is £60,000, which includes cleaners and track workers - treble the earnings of the average private sector employee here

LE

I think we should pull out. I see no reason to stay in. Anything we do sell to europe could easily be sold elsewhere, it's not as if Europe is the only place to trade.

The way the Euro is going, I can see them forcing the UK to help pay for their downfall. So I say, pull out now and watch Europe collapse, then step in and turn Europe into an area we control and we have the final say. if they don't like it, then they can stay in the gutter and learn to live without trading with their neighbours.

Old-Salt

Remain for Trade only. The EU Soviet is failing and if we are not careful we will get more and more sucked into the mire. Let's get out of it and pick up the trade pieces when EU goes tits up and Germany / France are the only 2 left standing. Trade, Trade and more Trade that's what will breed growth. EU diktats on the volume of water in a bog cistern will not (unless you are a ceramic producer). (4 lites is now the legal limit for all new kharzis now - info c/o my gobsh*te plumber last night).

The best way to look at EU monetary union is like this:

A family of 27 living in the same street. All have differing incomes, wants and needs. All have differing outgoings and other debts. Head of the family has an idea that one big F*k-off bank account will make it easier for the family to save and prosper..........it simply ain't going to work is it ? For a start, the family accountant is a bit of ****-wit (the EU Bank System).

Doris at number 2 wants a new thingy for the house. Can't afford it, but hey, let's buy it anyway and tell the family we'll chip in later. Slimy Sid at number 3 is in hook to the local betting mafia, oops ! Better borrow some dosh form the petty cash to sort that out eh ? Whilst Klaus and Francine at No6 have really grafted and got themselves a good living and have built up some savings for the future.

Family council checks the accounts and find that they are collectively up the financial creek and facing destitution....unless Klaus and Francine at No6 help out...again and again and agian. Eventually Klaus and Francine get devorced because of mounting family debts which are, of course theirs also, despite the fact that they have been fiscally responsible.

It should NEVER had happened in the first place. Human Nature and pure greed made it a doomed concept. the EU Dream was always a nightmare.

Oh, and lets give the Human Rights Act a sound going over too.

And to really piss everyone off....cancel the Olympics at the last minute and use the stadium for lots of flags, military bands and blokes marching with big boots.

LE

Go back to the original premise,a common market of Europe,revert to national currencies,if you need a common trading currency,run the Euro alongside those currencies,which is what John Major proposed back in 1990,can't be any worse than the cluster**** we have now!

I'm sorry I don't give a shit if Greece is going down the plughole,I think Yoghurt and Feta cheese,are two of the worst tasting foods in existence,what I do object to is letting the slimy bastards of the hook by cancelling half their debt,and then have the EU help out the banks that are in hock to the twats,most of which are French,but you can bet it will cost us as well.

We now have the President of the Commision saying,the only way we are going to go forward,is for the EU to have a greater Economic say in the member countries,which is bollocks,thats how we got where we are now.

The Euro was the biggest piece of crap ever to come out of Brussels,strangely enough a certain John Major was roasted by a lot of financial 'experts' along with the majority of the Opposition,for not allowing us to be sucked in by those shifty bastards in Brussels,and opting out,how he must be chuckling now?

LE

My question is - that Obsorne is fretting about our "trade" links ( see justification for the Irish handout) but will people in these countries have the means to pay for these goods in the future?

Mr Deputy, I think we can go back to the old currencies and it would make sense, just work out a fixed rate for a few years as the old european currencies have declined against sterling and the dollar and after a while, let the market sort the rate out.

The reason I would advocate this is because the market is a better mechanism to control the excess of places like Ireland, Greece and Italy - if their currencies are trash ( and they would be) they could only afford so many US dollars to spend on shite.

I think we could ring fence things like defence and basic trade rules ( defence treaties seemed to work well enough in 1914 and 1939 without armies of eurocrats fretting over trivia).

The key indicator will indeed be the German decision on Thursday - speaking to folks in the City this week, they are really waiting for a clear indication as to which way this thing will go, before they commit to much.

Lots of silent redundancies in the City at the moment and hiring freezes until Mar 2012. If it was BAE, it would be all over the news.