~ The Home Pub of the Famous Pink Drinks and Trotter's Ale

The Apology

According to a reader on the P/A I am guilty of having written hundreds and hundreds of boring articles, worse, I have been found guilty of slighting Australia in conjunction and aid from Norway, Sweden and The Netherlands. I am guilty as charged but how to apologize? Let me try.

Do I go out and in deep sun-drenched suburbia, embrace a sheet of zinc alum and ask for forgiveness. I am so sorry colour-bond, I know you mean well and you never rust either. How could I have been so cruel? You give generously to all within your sun-locked boundaries and no nasty neighbour can ever be detected. No blade of grass can ever abuse you.

Next is the pebble-creted driveway so sweetly curved upwards to the triple remote garage. So sorry; please allow me to prostrate myself humbly for having slighted you so badly. I will never ever do it again. Here, allow me to varnish you and let your pebbles shine for ever brightly. You have given so much welcoming and loving traction to the Michelin and Kuma tyres. I am so sorry.

Oh, the horror of the hurt I have knowingly inflicted on all those kind beds of nodding petunias, those havens of suburban peace and tranquillity, harbouring and giving respite to the tortured souls of the Westfield shopping malls with local pubs and clubs. How can I make up? Would you like some water, some kind Leghorn manure to boost your cheerful growth? I am sorry.

The leaf blower. I am so sorry. How can I make up for having accused you of noise and mayhem while all you did was blow away leaves onto your preying neighbours property or into the kerbs of endless avenues. Allow me to take you out for dinner and lubricate your twin carby cylinder. Anoint your inlet suction and empty the bag. Please, let me.

As for the crispy manicured lawn. The worst of all my misdemeanours. Let me sink on my knees and prise out all those lugubrious weeds with sinister intent on multiplying themselves during the dark of the night. Here let me mow you with my Victa and I’ll rake you lovingly in neat heaps, ready for the mulcher who I have never abused. I always held the mulcher in high esteem. I don’t know why.

Last but not least, the Venetian blind. Let me dust you. Please accept all my Christmas cards which I will stick through your slatted shiny apertures. If you like I can also give you a nice trade in for the vertical ones but how to attach the cards. I can also perhaps show contrition by getting boxes of twinkling lights to adorn the roof and garage door right up to the fence and along the lawns.
I won’t do it again.
PS: for those having read hundreds of boring articles. Why did you, how could you? Avert your eyes.

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About gerard oosterman

Artist, blogger and writer of hundreds of thousands of words with bad grammar and out of syntax as an extra bonus. All in a certain order.
I came to Australia from Holland with my parents in 1956 and have looked back ever since.
Here are some of my verbal doodling and reminiscences.

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139 thoughts on “The Apology”

I live in a town called Millhaven
And it’s small and it’s mean and it’s cold
But if you come around just as the sun goes down
You can watch the whole town turn to gold
It’s around about then that I used to go a-roaming
Singing La la la la La la la lie
All God’s children they all gotta die

My name is Loretta but I prefer Lottie
I’m closing in on my fifteenth year
And if you think you have seen a pair of eyes more green
Then you sure didn’t see them around here
My hair is yellow and I’m always a-combing
La la la la La la la lie
Mama often told me we all got to die

You must have heard about The Curse Of Millhaven
How last Christmas Bill Blake’s little boy didn’t come home
They found him next week in One Mile Creek
His head bashed in and his pockets full of stones
Well, just imagine all the wailing and moaning
La la la la La la la lie
Even little Billy Blake’s boy, he had to die

Then Professor O’Rye from Millhaven High
Found nailed to his door his prize-winning terrier
Then next day the old fool brought little Biko to school
And we all had to watch as he buried her
His eulogy to Biko had all the tears a-flowing
La la la la La la la lie
Even God’s little creatures, they have to die

Our little town fell into a state of shock
A lot of people were saying things that made little sense
Then the next thing you know the head of Handyman Joe
Was found in the fountain of the Mayor’s residence
Foul play can really get a small town going
La la la la La la la lie
Even God’s children all have to die

Then, in a cruel twist of fate, old Mrs Colgate
Was stabbed but the job was not complete
The last thing she said before the cops pronounced her dead
Was, “My killer is Loretta and she lives across the street!”
Twenty cops burst through my door without even phoning
La la la la La la la lie
The young ones, the old ones, they all gotta die

Yes, it is I, Lottie. The Curse Of Millhaven
I’ve struck horror in the heart of this town
Like my eyes ain’t green and my hair ain’t yellow
It’s more like the other way around
I gotta pretty little mouth underneath all the foaming
La la la la La la la lie
Sooner or later we all gotta die

Since I was no bigger than a weavil they’ve been saying I was evil
That if “bad” was a boot that I’d fit it
That I’m a wicked young lady, but I’ve been trying hard lately
O fuck it! I’m a monster! I admit it!
It makes me so mad my blood really starts a-going
La la la la La la la lie
Mama always told me that we all gotta die

Yeah, I drowned the Blakey kid, stabbed Mrs. Colgate, I admit
Did the handyman with his circular saw in his garden shed
But I never crucified little Biko, that was two junior high school psychos
Stinky Bohoon and his friend with the pumpkin-sized head
I’ll sing to the lot, now you got me going
La la la la La la la lie
All God’s children have all gotta die

There were all the others, all our sisters and brothers
You assumed were accidents, best forgotten
Recall the children who broke through the ice on Lake Tahoo?
Everyone assumed the “Warning” signs had followed them to the bottom
Well, they’re underneath the house where I do quite a bit of stowing
La la la la La la la lie
Even twenty little children, they had to die

And the fire of ’91 that razed the Bella Vista slum
There was the biggest shit-fight this country’s ever seen
Insurance companies ruined, land lords getting sued
All cause of wee girl with a can of gasoline
Those flames really roared when the wind started blowing
La la la la La la la lie
Rich man, poor man, all got to die

Well I confessed to all these crimes and they put me on trial
I was laughing when they took me away
Off to the asylum in an old black Mariah
It ain’t home, but you know, it’s fucking better than jail
It ain’t such bad old place to have a home in
La la la la La la la lie
All God’s children they all gotta die

Now I got shrinks that will not rest with their endless Rorschach tests
I keep telling them they’re out to get me
They ask me if I feel remorse and I answer, “Why of course!
There is so much more I could have done if they’d let me!”
So it’s Rorschach and Prozac and everything is groovy
Singing La la la la La la la lie
All God’s children they all have to die

For he’s a jolly good fellow,For he’s a jolly good fellow,For he’s a jolly good fellow,Which nob’dy can deny.Which nob’dy can deny.Which nob’dy can deny.For he’s a jolly good fellow,For he’s a jolly good fellow,For he’s a jolly good fellow,Which nob’dy can deny.

For he’s a jolly good fellow,For he’s a jolly good fellow,For he’s a jolly good fellow,and so say all of us.and so say all of us.and so say all of us.For he’s a jolly good fellow,For he’s a jolly good fellow,For he’s a jolly good fellow,and so say all of us.

You might then ask, “How good is it going to feel when I stop beating my head against this brick wall?”

Then when you’ve gotten used to how good it feels to not have to deal with carping negativity, you might ask, “How might I instead reach out to to those who may have a negative opinion of me or my opinions and come to a proper understanding of why they seem to react so negatively to me?

But of course, you should always keep in mind that this is a blog and there is no requirement to react or respond to any article or comment you may believe was posted for reasons other than the furtherance of the current dialogue or dissemination of relevant probative information. They are just comments and the above article notwithstanding, it is best to keep in mind that in the hot house atmosphere of a blog some people do display tendencies that they might not otherwise express in face to face encounters.

But most of all we should all remember that it was us who gave the opposition the ammunition with which they attack us; every confessional narrative, every social, cultural and political opinion, every off hand, unconsidered comment can be meat and potatoes to a person all fired up for the fight. It is in the nature of most blogs to be open to public scrutiny and comment and we should therefore be circumspect about the information we post whether as articles or as responses. It’s a certainty that not everyone will agree with you.

This is from American blogger Brad waters;

“I’ve learned not to rant in my blogs because I’ve learned — the hard way — that rants are just one-sided agitatations that do little to further quality dialogue. I still find many blogs attempting to use the force of shock/anger/fear rather than the power of emotional intelligence and the carefully crafted word.”

Brad offers this list as reasons for blogging:

* To maintain a routine – motivation and accountability
* To hone the craft of writing
* To air new and provocative ideas
* To spread cutting-edge information or timely opinion
* To connect with a like-minded community
* To forward the tradition of storytelling
* To build resume or clout
* To express creativity
* To find catharsis after a traumatic event
* To attract web traffic to another endeavour
* To tap into the potential for money and/or fame
* To rant or vent
* To see our names in print – ego motivation
* To change the world

I’m sure we can all recognise reasons why we publish and post from this list but a single truth can be drawn from life in all its manifestations.

As in nature, so it is in cyberspace. Diversity of opinion is key and the only common factor is constant change. If difference of opinion disconcerts you, perhaps you shouldn’t be blogging.

And please, I take no sides here. I simply cannot believe that you people would want to spend the time here if all you’re doing is tit for tat skirmishing; with no victory, no defeat, nor any end in sight. Wouldn’t you rather be gardening, cooking, bushwalking, reading, walking the dog, playing with the kids and grandkids or just about anything that didn’t involve having to deal with passive aggression masquerading as indignation and affront.

You could be right. There’s no end to the diversity and complexity of aberrant behaviours routinely reported by patients presenting at the offices of psychologists these days. And not a little of it revolves around self destructive behaviours centred on the internet. What is for the majority an empowering communication tool, is for some a trap they unknowingly fall into and then have a hell of a time extracting themselves. And to think that one’s own behaviour is absent malice or aberrance might in many cases be self delusional.

Though Of course I feel I should say that this is not in any way reflective of my views on any contributor here. It’s just an observation.

So googlehoover I was saying, yesterday morning I was eating breakfast with my son (7 years old) on a balcony overlooking the Manning River. His lips were moving. I was formulating (in my mind) a response to a problem on philosopher’s Facebook page. Sometimes I spend too much time on this stuff. It can sneak up on one. My sons quite the philosopher himself. That should have been enough. At the age of four he asked me, ‘do birds know they are birds?’.

The other thing is I do to much of my reading on the internet and not enough proper reading. I think my intellect is suffering for it.

Anyway we went for a lovely walk just now. I could see the Tweed Caldera in the distance. I love volcanic landscapes.

Hph, I would urge you to avoid appointing yourself arbiter of who has no good feelings towards fellow human beings. That’s another trap for those who would dehumanise others.

I too am very fond of that whole Miocene landscape from Dorrigo to Mount Warning. My wife and I were up that way a few weeks ago. I’m also envious of your Manning view, and Taree and Wingham are two of my favourite country towns. I particularly love that little Vampire on a stick over the road from of the RSL in Wingham. I love things on sticks.

I feel uncomfortable when people post personal details about children; even about themselves when it’s identifying. Not that that’s reason to stop so I won’t keep pushing it. But please reconsider, SM. Hopefully you already have some camouflage built into that comment. Even so …

Please educate me, Voice. Have I transgressed a blogging norm or is this your personal theory?

What’s the problematic detail?

What’s the threat? Pedos? Vindictive readers?

Are you worried they’ll track me down in sight of the Tweed Caldera or at home?

My biggest concern is for my career. I’ve said things about Labor corruption, corporate shenanigans and the hype around Liberal fiscal responsibility that could get me into hot water if anyone worked out who I was.

I’ve had professional dealings with someone who works for him in some capacity. Can’t say any more. Lovely bloke by the way, not Abbott, my acquaintance. Very concerned that companies have resources to pay out worker entitlements.

That’s why all this political hating troubles me, including when Jules does it. It encouraged people to think of each other as charactertures. Ignore complexity.

Yes my stance rhetoric has hardened. It was after Hung’s contributions really, if I think back. It wasn’t him solo. It was the exposure of thoughts that he brought forth. That, and the fact that I couldn’t stand the silly blind adulation of The Cobbletion, whether they were right ot wrong. And the constant denigration of them personally. It doesn’t happen in England.

So I thought if they can do it, so can I . But I vowed to be worse, so for every turd attributed to Abooot,Howard, or anyone else,I gave it back with interest.I don’t support Abooot. That must be obvious my my lampooning of his name – something that only 1% of people picked up. Not the straight rootin tootin shooters of course – the marvelous straight talkers who can’t even recognise Abooot, as a cartoon…Abooot, hah. Iv’e laughed and laughed for months (especially the happy family man with lovely daughters)… They only focus on their own set of cherry picked facts.

The latest stouch is easy, to explain.

Gerad and Helvi, have never been rude to me personally, however I’m a stickler for the truth* and when they started accusing Voice of having multiple pseuds and being you, it galled me.

I just quietly mentioned it to Helvi a couple of times, but she said, ‘I know what I know”. So I let it be. But it kept happening. With Gerad then elevating it to include that, The Drum moderators concurred and deleted posts! Have yours been deleted when criticising gerard’s “Europe is marvellous, Australia is wrong’, posts?

And it does affect the blog, vis a vis, Shoe (who I don’t know much about) arguing with Voice, then Gerard stepping in to thank her. In other words grooming her! She was suspicious of you after that, asking who you were and intimating that you should be vetted.

No one else has stepped in to help Voice**, so I decide to try and clear it up. My wife often says that I should have been a detective. I’m obsessive about silly little facts.

*If I say my father was a communist, it’s because he was. If I say I had the businesses that I describe (sketchily sometimes to keep a certain anonymity), it’s because I have. Not as some on The Drum pretend to be; pensioners, or fathers of raped daughters in order to gain credence with their post. If I say that I meant gerard’s Drum comments were boring, I meant and said in The Dot, or The Dump; ‘his comments there’. Not as Vivienne tried to imply his articles. He’s more than implying it. He actually wrote it at the head of this article. He should have checked my comment – so I’m owed an apology as well.

You have told me to forget it, and so has Voice, however it is in my nature to get at the truth. But instead of apologies for lies told about you and VoR, we get, ‘Happy Birthday Algernon”? I guess they and everyone else just hoped that I would drop it….As I said elsewhere, culturally we are entirely different.

I just have a penchant for the truth. Justice if you like. I’m pedantic.

**In fact resentment has been shown to her. My suspicion is that it’s because she’s articulate,

Actually, just for good measure, here is my comment – ONCE MORE: …………..”Please get over the fact that numerous people find your comments vacant, nebulous and stupid. It’s the way of blogging. Divers opinions in an electronic world.”

Now, I didn’t even say that I found them that way….? I said numerous people!!

Obviously Gerard did (have numerous people making fun or something, -I didn’t notice), other wise he wouldn’t have contacted the drum moderators to remove them? QED, I think. Latin quod erat demonstrandum .

I don’t know why I have to keep laboriously explaining this. it’s as if you’re all 5 year olds.

Sea:
“Have I transgressed a blogging norm”
Hmmmmm. Hardly the point, really.
“Educate me, Voice.”
I don’t think will “educate” you as you call it. I have concerns. They aren’t baseless. But as I said “I won’t keep pushing it”. All I can do is ask you once to reconsider and leave it to you.

You never understood what I wrote before on claiming expenses while doing ‘volunteering’. I never said he was defrauding the government. It was, as I said, Liberals supporters who kept praising Abbott to the sky because of his oh-so-wonderful volunteering. I explained he was not volunteering because he claimed all expenses and travel. It is all self-assessed – no one approves this stuff unless it is overseas travel. Everything I said on this matter is FACT, not opinion.

I didn’t go into an essay on why I believe AGW is true etc. You can go back to The Drum/Unleashed archives and read my comments there. I am more curious as to why there are still some people who deny it.

First things first. Try to use the word “hate” less in your vocabulary. Like cigarettes, it’s bad for your health. In this case for your psychological health. Try using a different term such as “dislike” or “detest” or “find objectionable” etc.

And the second thing is, the last sentence is your own “theory” which you invented in your own mind. I know how and why it emanates from.

I just hate weasel words, hph! When I hate something, I use the word “hate” when I dislike something, then that’s the word I use, similarly with detest, find objectionable, loath, find abhorrent, disgusting, revolting, repugnant, highly objectionable, an abomination, a bugbear, a bane, or resent, despise, execrate and what other words may come close to but ain’t “hate.”

Come on, hph! You can’t tell people how to feel or how to express those feelings; or when to do so and when to stop. You may place rules in your home or private space but on a public blog, particularly one with a manager who is quite capable of placing his own rules and regulations?

Let SM free, please hph!
There’s more than enough of this sort of patronising crap going on around here already. Totally indecorous, old bean. So… not feng shui or sheng chi!

We all have our personal style of speech. We speak and write as we know best. Yours is aggressively authoritarian but I do not begrudge you it nor berate you because of it. Throwing shackles upon someone’s style of speech is best left to totalitarian regimes.

But, by all means, show your objection(s) to the content of others’ comment. That’s what we’re all here for.

I wasn’t going to comment on any of this brouhaha but I find, like some of you, that I just can’t help myself.

Forgive me if I characterise this ongoing stoush as rather like going over to a friends place and spending the time slinging shit at other guests with whom you might disagree over the most niggardly and inconsequential matters, with never a thought for how much is getting on the walls.

This blog “belongs” to Mike, who must be a paragon of patience. I’d have moderated you all to hell long ago, but not before cleaning the crap off the walls.

It is little surprise to me that the patronage has died off as one respondent suggested, given the amount of, lets call it umbrage, that seems to regularly fly about. I’ve thought that this place might not be worth the salt. To an outsider this stuff just seems dumb, and yet I can see that you’re all intelligent people. Why do you let yourselves go like this?

As an outsider I accept that my reading of the situation may be inadequately informed and I don’t share the history of this blog with the regular respondents, none the less what I read here is deeply dispiriting.

The idea that any respondent should be banned from the site, as another respondent has suggested, for no better reason than that they disagree with other respondents, albeit often in a form that’s likely to bring accusations of foul play, seems to me to defeat the purpose of places like this. What’s more, if an argument is so weak that it can’t stand a little rattling and shaking then it’s not much of an argument. Sadly this seems to be the case with both sides here.

Can I suggest that many of the positions and people you all seem so keen to defend are not worthy of your interest or support and you look foolish sniping at one another over such poor prizes. You’ve allowed media narratives and the lies and half truths of the power elite to so trammel your minds that you can’t see that still you have more in common than that which divides you. You are all choosing to live in a kind of political skinner box and the more you go on the more difficult it will be to think any other way

Jesus, just leave politics and one another alone for a few weeks. Give yourselves a break. Everybody knows this is nowhere.

Shit, what drug are you on, googgles? “Leave politics alone… for a FEW WEEKS?”

And talk about what, googles, shut venetian blinds? Manicured dog poo? Or -gasp!- CRICKET? How whorish are the Greek women? How virtuous the Scandinavian ones? How pissweak is the Oz education system? How utterly brilliant is the Scandinavian one?
Jesus forfend that we stop throwing shit at one another in a guest’s house, lest we all shed our dignity and say, “yes, sir, no sir, you’re right sir, I’m a rotten bastard sir!”

But you’re right about how unworthy are the people some people are defending! The last 24-48 hours I saw a hagiography that the pope would be envious of! Sainthood has been all but conferred upon – well upon people who are utterly unworthy of the title.
Buggered if I know what brought all that tribulation about. Damned near apocalyptic that was! Perhaps it was a fear that… but let me go straight to the donkey’s mouth:
Matthew 24:21 “For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.”

One patron had it spot on when she mentioned the tribalism that suddenly emerges around this pub every now and then. I would have thought that by now, evolution alone would have thoroughly deflowered that phenomenon and that we, as a sapiens sapiens, could, by use of intelligence, separate issue from person and talk about each objectively and not by means of tribe loyalty.

Still! It’s a pub after all and pubs the world over are notorious not for their conviviality but for the brutality of their brawls. The more brutal the brawls, the greater the patronage.

Atomou, I’ve read a lot of the stuff you published a few years ago, and Astyages too, and enjoyed it enormously. I’ve even visited your own site, and Gerard’s as well. Some of Mike’s stuff is priceless. I’m also a big fan of the dog yarns from Warrigal and wish he’d come back to finish the Molong story. Hung One On’s “Father O’Way” stories are just perfect absurdity and great fun.

What’s happened to the place? It didn’t used to be like this. What happened to the courtesy and civility? It can’t be as simple as political or personal differences. I’m sure you all get along just fine with those you meet in the real world who might harbour a contrary opinion. What’s so difficult about doing that here?

Not that I am in any way ascribing ignoble motives to anything you may have ever posted here or anywhere else for that matter.

Viv, it takes two to tango; and I say that with some affection. Have you considered simply rising above what you would no doubt characterise as the goading and baiting? Life’s too short to maintain a rage against an inconsequential and unimportant opponent.

Who was it said that in nature there is no right and wrong, just consequences.

Googlehoover;
I am torn between leaving the issue alone or responding.

I can understand your dismay about the brouhaha and dilemma for Mike. Let me tell you that you cannot discount what people feel as a result of bullying. It is real . You are right, you do not share the insight nor are that closely informed over the insidious and ever increasing goading and flaming of a couple of the P/A patrons that has happened over the last few months.

It is almost an exact replica of what happened a few years ago. The same explanation of an alleged assault on someone else being explained as an ‘in joke’ or something ‘allegorical’ that the writer assumed was very logical and acceptable and that the victims were unable to entertain to its full extend. They were just illiterate and totally uneducated.

This time , the same threat of a personal assault was again stated, this time under a different pseudo. When objections were raised, again the same explanations. The issue was then clouded in toeing and froing into a battle of the use of pseudos. Somehow the contents of my articles gleaned from other sources became twisted as if I had some personal vendetta against Australia. I am a proud Australian with a freedom to offer critique.
Comparing Scandinavia, Education systems, Treatment of refugees, Different social systems are hardly the sole domain of Gerard Oosterman.

As pointed out, the issue of slighting and bullying us became irrelevant (to the abuser (s) as if it were the victims that were at fault. We were just stupid not to see the hilarity of it all. Again, no one can discount of how we felt. Terrible, abused and hurt. That’s is the effect of bullying.

I can easily understand a fierce debate about the issues of articles but when it becomes a continuous and ever increasing pathway to personal bullying, what does one do?

If it is ‘deeply dispiriting’ to an outsider how do you think it feels for the abused?

You said it, Googlewhoever (thanks Carisbrooke for the w and the middle e)!

A few words about the recently declared Pigs Arms crimes of Using More Than One Pseudo and Changing The Topic.

Coming back here is like being a pub-crawler in the movie “The World’s End”, where they return only to find that the quirky pubs they once knew have been “Starbucksed” since they’ve been gone: the menus are all identical, and each pub only has one type of beer on draft. They are hunted down by sanctimonious machines who believe that resistance is futile.

This place used to be run by a fun guy called Emmjay who broke those rules so many times he could be nervous about popping in now – in case he gets thrown out on his backside. Or perhaps he already has been and the “Under New Management” sign will be overtly (about bloody time) displayed over the door any day now, followed closely by “Death to Camellias”, “Zinc Alum Fencing is Double Plus Ungood”, and “Privacy is for Anglo Perverts”. With free Aldi plonk served for the Thought Police and the Dream Police at a specially reserved table for the regulars. The occasional shift worker who wanders in cheerfully from the local hospital looks in vain for Merv, who hasn’t been seen since being caught buying a weeding fork (Janet wanted a lawn for the twins). He wonders why the other tables are always empty …

Some literal minded people have a problem with non-literal styles. That’s fine. If causes me trouble in real life. The odd confused look. My other problem is jumping ahead. An idea will provoke another and another and then I’ll talk about that without pausing to draw the link.

Is it inappropriate here? Maybe. But I will point out to the literal minded folk; we’re not actually in a pub.

So allow me to contribute to the debate, please.

I agree that the use of the word ‘boats’ when we mean ‘People in the boats’ is an attempt to dehumanize. The decision to ration refugee arrivals is made a lot easier if we don’t think about the actual people.

So what do you make of a chap who makes a hobby of criticizing people and then apologizes to their fence?

Oops looks like I already made that point.

Perhaps we can consider the outrageously sneaky and aggressive act that is the nonpology. And maybe the inconsistency between commiting OTT acts of aggression and maintaining that one is not aggressive.

Maybe we can explore bullying in more detail. Maybe we can look at the bullies habit of waging minor PR campaigns and assembling gangs to do their dirty work.

And then maybe we can look at another dumanising trick humans play on themselves. Dismissing out of hand a cogent argument of another human.

See I’ve conceded a point. I’m trying to find the middle ground. I don’t think your pound was drivel. Except the bit bit about my point being drivel. I think that’s another attempt to deny my legitimate point of view.

Sea – you made just one point (“I agree that the use of the word ‘boats’ when we mean ‘People in the boats’ is an attempt to dehumanize.” ) You do tend to be obscure (my preferred description). We can agree or disagree and just be clear about it. I do often accuse people of writing BS/nonsense/rubbish when that is what they have done by either making something up (stupid scenarios which never actually happen), outright lying or taking something totally out of context. Other than that I often provide the correct information and thus challenge their take on whatever happens to be the matter at hand.

Gerard was apologising to the fence etc because he wrote quaint stories about those things. Carisbrooke pleads that he was referring to hundreds of boring comments. He is a slack writer of words and it was clear, to me, that he was referring to all Gerard’s writing. Gerard doesn’t make boring comments. Maybe I am just too ‘sympatico’ but I felt the hurt which Gerard did the same as if anyone had said that my recipes or writing on cooking was boring crap.

Sea, jumping from a point to another point is not the same as making a point. Sometimes you make a sudden change and jump from one set of rails to another in your train of thoughts and head off to an entirely different direction. If, at least, the two sets were parallel to each other for a short distance then people would understand you better.

Patronage changes by going up by a huge ‘one or two’ or down by another huge ‘one or two’. Someone was exaggerating in an attempt to make a point. Basically we are the same mob agreeing or disagreeing. One person has become too provocative. We all know either a bit or quite a lot about others through their writing. Perhaps Googlehoover you might care to submit an article and give us an insight as to your thoughts on some current affair, politics, food or travel or even gardening.

@Googlehovver. I don’t have an problem with arguing, in fact it can be slightly infectious.

However, when one slowly lays out points and counterpoint and they are ignored, it is frustrating.

This article does not not apologise to Voice, for the hundred of times that Helvi and gerard have, either insinuated or actually asserted, that Voice is SM.

Where’s the apology? Or did I miss it?

My comment about gerad’s boringness are related to The Drum, and the comment section in PA . None of his articles. I haven’t mention them. Why would I there Mike’s property.

There are myriad posters in The Drum that have made sarcastic comments to helvi and Gerad, for their repetitive views. They ar not Voice, me or Sea mandez – excpeting where they use their known pseuds. They are delusional and obsessed by it.

They must come to terms that nobody agrees with them.

That’s all.

No one must attempt to tailor and shape other peoples writing and I am please that their and my points of view are recorded here.

That, presumably ois why Mike leaves it all up. it ios a record of knowledge fact-less comments, idiotic statements, pride& prejudice and in many case just plain ignorance.

Things are often stated as facts, when in fact they are just options.

It is an undeniable fact that Voice, myself, atomou, and T2 left because of the (I’ll be kind and describe it as silliness).

Now we get another articulate writer in here: sea mendez – and the same thing happens.

It’s unbelievable really.

During the months when we were not here. The place was a morgue. Go back and have a look!

The most exciting comment was….”Oh what a great story, you had me in fits of laughter.”

And @Alkgy, because I can’t be bothered to go below. You made derogatory comments about about me when I wasn’t even here. You either forgot that they are distributed by email, or you were just being your typical vacuous bitchy little religious self: a pious humbugger…And as for insulting Voice, her IQ is probably 30 points above yours.So please don’t try that one on. Go and repent….And re your reference to working in a pub, you might recall that I owned two (2). I expected my bartenders to wash glasses, sweep the floor and serve drinks, and be civil to customers, not insult them, as you have Voice and I.

Gerad wrote this, below : “From another blogger;

Arguing with people on the right generally is impossible, it is like arguing with trolls on the internet – there is a basic sociopathy at work in such people which means they just do not relate to other people in a living way. They only hear themselves. They only see what they have always seen.”

Can I just ask you, by that standard are all religious people paedophiles?

Or, don’t those sort of meaningless, brainless comments show a lack of education?

That means that even, say Tommo, Madeleine, Susan merril ect ect. Uncle tom cobbly and all, can monitor discussions in The Drum, dot, or any article that they want to log into. AND anywhere in the world.

That’s how I know that you were bad mouthing me, being sarcastic, irritating and brainless — even though I hadn’t been there for a year. You were just being nasty. Catty,like a schoolgirl.

Jules I’ve taken to ignoring you for quite a while except to clarify or if you a reasonable, nor except here on this particular one do I bother to talk about you as part of a discussion and here it was was relevant. I have no interest in your insults.

Rewriting a little history – comments on The Drum eh. Be clear in the first instance. Too many assumptions – not facts Jules. You remain all over the place. And I am still waiting for that risotto recipe!

Dear Carisbrooke,
re: “her IQ is probably 30 points above yours”
Thank you for casually dropping it into the conversation that my brain is the size of a planet. (One of those café orange cakes is winging its way to the Gold Coast as we speak.) However … we really must discuss the choice of wording next time. I don’t need a brain the size of a planet to work out that this one is not going to win me any friends.
Best Regards,
Voice

I lived in London for two years. I never met a Pom who was as ‘abstract’ as Jules. We (Aussies and most Poms that is) actually share a very similar sense of humour. I had travelled more than the average Pom and had far more ‘exotic’ eating and food tastes than 99% of the ones I met. I knew a few who could actually cook something decent. Dinner parties or just a party where you served food as well was a revelation to most. Food and cooking for others has taken off over the last 20 years in England – a lot of thanks probably goes to Jamie Oliver and a couple of other modern pioneers. The Poms of course have always done great TV comedy.

I have decided to respond to this from Jules: “It’s why Vivenne and I can’t communicate. We are – if I may use a simile 😉 as different as chalk and cheese – and another simile, she is as stubborn as a mule.
We are not from the same planet, or if we are it doesn’t seem as if we are.”
We are indeed different. I am stubborn when it comes to the truth and the facts. So, on Abbott and volunteering and expenses – a matter on which we had extensive ‘discussion’ and Jules could never understand the information I gave (his denials, excuses, you name it) – I have been completely proven correct on every point through revelations in the MSM. Has Jules come back to me to say he was wrong? No. Not a word. On other matters, I answer Jules’ often very odd questioning and then he responds with something totally unrelated to the matter at hand. Different worlds indeed. I am not very good at playing silly buggers. And … I am still waiting for that risotto recipe – two years !

For shame.
The tag team (that name still holds good, from the last time they targeted people here, me and atomou, watch them go) obviously thinks it can hang Sea Mendez on the dream sequence comment. A couple of people, without meaning to reflect badly on them, fell for the murder threat interpretation, and they think if they keep repeating that comment enough times they can get rid of him.
Frankly, I can’t see why he’d bother wanting to hang around. Most people don’t, do they? It was sad when I got back after a year or two to see that it hadn’t grown as it could have.
When I saw that comment I thought “he wants them to let go of their bitterness and just enjoy life” followed by “He shouldn’t have posted something that personal online, it shows an area of weakness and they’ll hammer him on it”, followed by “That sounds creepy” (because we all develop these defense mechanisms).
I guess it’s because I’ve noticed SM on and off over at the Drum for years, and sometimes conversed with him there, that I dismissed the “creepy” on the balance of probabilities and wondered where he was leading. But by that time, the tag team had struck and the place was looking like a train wreck.
Sorry, SM, I should have asked you. I think I hear a cock crowing in the distance.

No matter how carefully you remove the strands of evidence supporting a hypothesis one just can’t diminish the strength with which it is held. Remove all the strands. Instead of falling in the water it levitates.

And I think that is not being nice. One can’t pretend one is nice and refuse to ever concede a point, or modify a stance or concede one has acted poorly. You can. Jules could circa 2008 his politics and philosophy seemed to have hardened since then. I took a shine to Emmjay at Unleashed cause he could.

If you missed it if shows it was to tangential. Again. Communication fail. My fault. But murder? For gods sake!

I will note that I think Jules is unfairly targeted. In my estimation he is singled out for behavior that is general and I think this is because he us not protected by a labor halo.

I’m not going to hang around here on sufferance. If the cocks crowing I’m not hanging around on sufferance. Its been a blast!

As you know I once worked in a pub. If someone of the opposite sex walked into the wrong toilet they were asked to leave. All did without resistance as they’d had too much to drink. Normally two of us escorted them to the door. At one time I had to escort someone out and asked the other barman at the time to help me, nice chap but you had to keep him away from the famous when they occasionally came in because he’d make a goose of himself. He was Canadian I think not that that matters. The person we asked to leave got to the door and offered us both a drink. The other barman thought that would be nice. I said no maybe come back when you’re sober. The other waiter said why you would do that for, he was offering us a drink.
I’m only here evenings, every other Friday and weekends. Over the past few months is been suggested that some might post a blog that we can all share and comment on. Of the above Voice posted a very good piece. SM nothing and Jules has made it plain that he won’t. Yet if Gerard post something which he regularly does we get the three ringed circus of abuse and bile. Almost immediate of on some tangent, bugger the debate.
Several weeks ago I took the advice not to give air to those who were trolling and abusing. I would comment maybe for clarity or if the debate reasonable. I’ve had little to do with SM other than clarify an earlier comment, overall I find them obnoxious, If you choose to go fine, that’s up to you. Voice OR VoR (surely an oxymoron) was irrational, came back because she thought she might lift the tenor of the debate. Voice are you serious. Jules sometimes you can be reasonable most the time though you appear to be content being Voices, Groom of the Chamber. Some of your comments were fun once nowadays it’s just cutting and pasting. Perhaps it time you all took a look in the mirror and all grew up. You’re all really tiresome.
“And to Algy below: you’ve never debated anything, to my knowledge. But that doesn’t matter.” Jules seriously this is wet lettuce stuff. Perhaps you could see your doctor and get him to up the strength of your dementia pills.

“If you missed it if shows it was too tangential.” Thanks for the compliment, but all it really shows is that it was tangential. Not TOO tangential. Or I was being a klutz. I only had to make my guess public and ask you how I went, not slink away because it all looked too ugly. The male rooster reference is to Saint Peter in the Garden when the cock crowed thrice BTW, with myself in the persona of Peter (don’t tell gerard).
I like my guess (that you wanted them to stop clinging to their problems and go with the flow in the clear water) more than your actual intention, by the way. 🙂
Well, I do. “No matter how carefully you remove the strands of evidence supporting a hypothesis one just can’t diminish the strength with which it is held.” That’s simply not the case. Unless you REALLY meant prejudice where you wrote hypothesis. And on reflection, perhaps personifying prejudice without any lead up at all IS a bit too tangential.

On reflection, I partially withdraw my final paragraph. It isn’t entirely limited to prejudice. It’s remarkable how often people who form reasonable hypotheses in good faith cling to those hypotheses despite all contrary evidence that appears later. You just can’t do that if your job involves problem-solving.
The secret is simple – keep an open mind, and always try to DISPROVE your hypothesis, not prove it.

I for one are getting sick and tired of the constant carry on that goes on here. There are some who aren’t interested in debate and more interested in dishing out abuse. I’m simply amazed at the amount of time the seem to waste here dishing out that abuse. Do they seriously have nothing better to do, is their life that boring that coming here and dishing out to anyone whom they disagree with.

I cannot imagine what satisfaction they get. Is there an ulterior motive, do they want this place closed down.

Not one of them contributes a blog preferring to commentate (if that’s what you call it), The reality is they’re trolls. Perhaps its time the did the right thing and moved on somewhere else.

There are two funny men
The Best I’ve ever seen.
One is Mr. Gallagher, the other’s Mr. Shean.
When these two cronies meet,
It surely is a treat,
For the things they say and the things they do,
And the funny way they greet!

Why, Mr. Shean, why, Mr. Shean,
On the day they took away our old canteen,
Cost of living went so high,
That it’s cheaper now to die.
Oh, I thank you Mr. Gallagher!
You are welcome Mr. Shean!

2) Oh, Mr. Gallagher, Oh, Mr. Gallagher,
If you’re a friend of mine you’ll lend me a couple of bucks!
I’m so broke and badly bent, That I haven’t got a cent,
I’m so clean you’d think that I’d been washed in Lux!

Oh, Mr. Shean, Oh, Mr. Shean!
Do you mean to say you haven’t got a bean?
Mark my word as I’m alive,
I intended touching you for five!

Oh I thank you Mr. Gallagher!
You are welcome , Mr. Shean!

3) Oh Mr. Gallagher! Oh, Mr. Gallagher!
Once I think I saw you save a lady’s life!
In a rowboat out to sea,
You were a hero then to me,
And I thought perhaps you made of her your wife!

Oh, Mr. Shean! Oh, Mr. Shean!
As she sunk I dove down like a submarine!
Dragged her out onto the shore,
Now she’s mine for evermore!

Who, the lady Mr. Gallagher?
No! The rowboat, Mr. Shean!

4) Oh, Mr. Gallagher! Oh, Mr. Gallagher!
What’s the name of the game they play upon the links?
Where the player hits the ball,
And you can’t find it at all?
And the caddie walks around and thinks and thinks?

Oh, Mr. Shean! Oh, Mr. Shean!
You don’t even know a hazard from a green!
It’s become a popular game,
And you don’t even know it’s name!

Hi gerard, this I what I wrote…verbatim…”You reap what you sow. You have made hundreds and hundreds of boring comments over the years and people take you to task for it. You are vary anti-Australian, for a start….So you can expect people to be rude to you.”

And this is what you said that I wrote……verbatim….”According to a reader on the P/A I am guilty of having written hundreds and hundreds of boring articles, “??..

Can you spot the difference?

Full marks to you for mentioning your articles, however, that’s not what I wrote. I was writing about your comments in Unleashed.

“Mister Gallagher and Mister Shean” is one of the most famous songs to come from vaudeville. First performed by the duo of Gallagher and Shean in the early 1920s, it became a huge hit and carried Gallagher & Shean to stardom.

It contains jokes typical of the time but also lampoons current fads and events (“Cost of living went so high / That it’s cheaper now to die”). The song itself gave rise to many parody versions.

As this song was sung on the vaudeville stage, each verse was presented as a miniature skit, as though Shean came across Gallagher on a street, beginning: “Oh, Mister Gallagher! Oh Mister Gallagher! Have you heard…?” Gallagher would say “Yes, yes” to his entreaties before the joke was set up in the verse.

Because the duo’s first appearance together had been in a skit set in Egypt, the two performed the song in Egyptian costume (Gallagher in white suit and straw hat of the tourist, Shean in fez and bizarre skirted jacket of the “native” colonial). Aside from one reference to the Nile made in one of the original verses, their costumes had nothing to do with the song, but reflected the craze for all things Egyptian after the discovery of King Tut’s tomb.

From another blogger;
Arguing with people on the right generally is impossible, it is like arguing with trolls on the internet – there is a basic sociopathy at work in such people which means they just do not relate to other people in a living way. They only hear themselves. They only see what they have always seen.

Dear Gerard – do try to focus on those of us who love you and very much appreciate your many stories. The person who says nasty hurtful things is just a useless jerk who gets his/her jollies off in ways which any normal person would cringe at the mere thought. No empathy, no love, no soul – just an empty blob with access to a computer and the internet. This kind of crap happens in many places and I know is hard to ignore. There is no need to apologise in any way at all. Be strong and take the weekend off. With love,

Except today in this article. or is there a parallel blog where somebody has criticised them?

I remember once weeks ago saying that some were good and some were gloomy, however you boys have come in late, and gerard has twisted my words. Although hang on maybe he didn’t mean me? That’s possible I suppose.

I’ve tabled it in here. I can only assume that you made these comments without reading.

I love cuddling. And………………………….Girls in white dresses with blue satin sashes
Snowflakes that stay on my nose and eyelashes
Silver white winters that melt into springs
These are a few of my favorite things

My view is you need to be excluded from here until you can demonstrate if you want to participate that you are capable, sea mendez, of sustained empathy and rational logic. The danger of what you are trying to achieve is palpable. Most concerning is you are using the pronoun ‘we’. You have no ground on which to imagine anything that was said in the essay deserves this dangerous attempt to lobby opposition to it. Were I equipped with administrator’s rights I would remove you from the page without a moment’s hesitation.

Worst I do not believe you have misread what Gez is meaning or the sorrow he feels. Your cunning is as palpable as the danger that your continuing presence here means.

sea mendez Submitted on 2013/10/23 at 10:04 pm | In reply to Voice. I had a weird dream once. Maybe even a nightmare. I was crossing a suspended foot bridge above a crystal-clear, fast-flowing stream. Perhaps it was in the Alps. It was a hot day. The water was deep and enticing. Half way across I came across a person. You know how weird and fluid dreams are. The person kept changing. Mostly it was Gerard but he would morph into Helvi, Mulga or Granny. He/she/they were set to fall into the water. They were hanging desperately to the side of the bridge with their hands. I was seized with a impish desire. I wanted them to have swim in the georgous waters on this hot day. Slowly, painstakingly, I pryed each finger from its hold. One finger was left holding. I laughed and pryed it from its hold… And Lo! Gerard/Helvi/Mulga/Granny levitated. I wonder what it signifies?

If I can make a point here, I think that one poster is making a comment about other poster’s sentiments.

That would be my interpretation of the allegory.

An allegory, is different from a metaphor in that it uses a story, rather than comparisons or likenesses.

You know how it is, a child might make up a story, but it has a real meaning, however not necessarily the meaning that’s attributed in the actual verse or script.

I have noticed – and I have mentioned it before – that Australians are very objective. It’s hard to be subjective or abstract. You will recall me mentioning it.

in fact I am surprised at SM’s creativity, however he is probably going too fast in here.

I’ve been here for years, and no one understands my level of abstractness.

In gerad’s field one can point to Salvador Dali, Picasso and one of my favourite; Gaudi. of course the impressionists were abstract too, to a degree.

Not that I can put myself into one billionth of their category. No personally I think differently. It must be the European education, linked to History (guessing) of course. maybe it was the sixties. I imagine it must have been quite strange to be cut off down under, reading about a culture that you could only emulate by styling your hair – like a pop singer 😉

It’s why Vivenne and I can’t communicate. We are – if I may use a simile 😉 as different as chalk and cheese – and another simile, she is as stubborn as a mule.

We are not from the same planet, or if we are it doesn’t seem as if we are.

Mike posted a dog squiggle by Picasso once. when I explained. Right here in this forum.

I don’t think you have enough evidence to make a call on my empathy. I find it odd that you would accuse me of bullying and then attempt to deny this fundamental tennet of my humanity.

I would contend that my initial comment here in as far as it attempted to exposed a logical flaw was rational. I agree that use of the pronoun ‘we’ is inappropriate. I was paraphrasing someone else.

As to the apology I may have more context than you. Carisbrooke called for it today at The Dump. I don’t think it important but if he does.

This is not the apology he called for. This completely skirts the Carisbrooke’s grievance and places another in his mouth. This is an escalation of hostilities. This is a further provocation. The title is ironic. It is my belief Gerard does not come to this with clean hands.

Its a free country. Administrators may suspend me at their will. Administrators are friends with Gerard and owe me nothing. But I stand by the underlying rationality of my comments and my right to defend myself from slurs.

There are three administrators of the Pigs Arms. The originator who is Emmjay, Voice (VoR) and myself Gerard. Tell me, Sea mendez. How come you claim having knowledge of Gerard being friends with the administrators? Are you sure you are not Voice? Not that this is the issue. It is the deliberate causing of terrible hurt to others.
(The administrators can edit, delete or remove posts and contributors and have access to the Word-press Dashboard)..

And @Shoe, I like you, but can’t you see what gerrdd is doing, he wont’ let up onthis silly mania that V is SM.
Voice is forced to defend herself………………..Or, walk away I suppose. Which is what gerard and Helvi, obviously want.

hence this ludicrously obfuscated article, instead of an apology, that they are wrong.

F*** me, caducity sure is a funny stage.

Oh well, I’m going off to have some dark chocolate and fresh pineapple. That’s not a metaphor BTW. That’s what I’m gonna do, as soon as I have killed my dog and put my wife in her place!!

Slowly, painstakingly, I pryed each finger from its hold. One finger was left holding. I laughed and pryed it from its hold… And Lo! Gerard/Helvi/Mulga/Granny levitated. I wonder what it signifies?
Really Helvi, you should be embarrassed at posting that you don’t understand that.

The joke from Sea mendez:
Slowly, painstakingly, I pryed each finger from its hold. One finger was left holding. I laughed and pryed it from its hold… And Lo! Gerard/Helvi/Mulga/Granny levitated. I wonder what it signifies.

You wrote this: “Compare this with the Anglo world of sex which was only introduced to them by the Vikings. Prior to that era , history tells us England only viewed sex as something that was done to fence posts or in leap years during an eclipse of the moon. ( we are British, you know).

The list is endless. Don’t you ever wonder why you elicit such responses as, ‘ wishing that you and Mulga would drop out’?