I'm no "apologist" for China, but being here for the past few years, and hearing about other people's negative experiences has caused me to reflect back and try to see how my own country and my own people treat foreign workers.

Once again, you simply post China good/West very evil, without any evidence/links to support your accusations.

And I'm sorry, and I mean no personal offence, but once again, I do question your identity and your motivation for making your posts.

And your motivation for posting what amounts to Fox style propaganda (US and West good, China bad) is what? Well, the thread you started where you claimed Chinese were racists is a clue to that motivation. At any rate, since you asked:

In December 2008, Manuel was able to land an H-2A job picking oranges for a Florida contractor that provides labor for one of the largest citrus companies in the U.S. He was told he’d be making $8.82 an hour. On arrival in Florida, he set out working long, hard days, sometimes 12 hours or more in the fields. But when his first paycheck arrived, Manuel learned that in order to keep his job he would have to kick back some of his promised pay to his employer.

Wage theft hits low wage workers hardest. A 2009 study found that an incredible 76 percent of low wage workers in our nation's largest cities claimed they had been underpaid or not paid at all. Still, wage theft is everyone's problem. The Economic Policy Foundation found that U.S. workers annually lose $19 billion in earnings due to unpaid overtime alone.

Eight years ago, “Mrs. Kim” came to the United States from China “to pursue her American Dream,” but thanks to unscrupulous business practices familiar to many Asian immigrants working in low-wage industries, things went horribly wrong. Kim, who did not want to use her real name because she is still involved in litigation, began life in the U.S. preparing dumplings and side dishes at a Korean restaurant in Bergen County, New Jersey.

The job went well for a few years. It was hard, but Kim was getting paid for her efforts. “When I first started working, [the owner] agreed to pay me $600 per week,” she said. “Specific hours were not indicated, but she did indicate I would have to work over 12 hours per day.”

Though she worked as many as 17 hours a day, when the restaurant’s business started to decline, the owner began paying employees late or not paying them at all. Kim is suing her former boss for more than $40,000 in minimum and overtime wages that have been withheld and additional liquidated damages.

Kelsang had been out of work for two months and was desperate when she accepted a job last February at Babaz, a west-end Toronto fast-food restaurant that specializes in Middle Eastern food. She agreed to work for $10 an hour chopping vegetables, making falafels and operating the cash, even though she knew she would be earning less than Ontario’s $10.25 minimum wage. But the Tibetan immigrant who has lived and worked in Canada for more than a decade was shocked when her first pay was delivered to her in cash — without any paperwork showing payroll deductions — and amounted to just $450. She was owed at least $700.

“When I asked when I would be getting the remaining amount, my manager said I would get it next time,” says Kelsang, who doesn’t want her full name used for fear of reprisals from future employers. “But next time, it was the same.”

A Ugandan nanny who says she was paid a mere $100 a month over two years is suing her former employer for $195,000, in a case her supporters say highlights rampant mistreatment of low-income and migrant workers. Lilliane Namukasa says she came to Canada in March 2008 to work as a live-in caregiver for a family in Brampton, Ont. Her employment contract called for her to be paid $427.50 a week in regular pay, minus $55 weekly to cover her room and board, plus $17 an hour for any overtime, according to her statement of claim.

With the foreign-born making up half of New York's work force, labor officials say wage and hour violations are stunningly widespread, from upscale restaurants where bathroom attendants are paid only in tips, to the city's car washes, where inspectors last year found three-quarters did not pay minimum wage or overtime.

There are likely thousands more just like this.

There are some truly bad employers in China, one would expect to find them everywhere, but what goes on here in China pales in comparison to the nightmares migrant workers in the US and Canada are experiencing. And few people care to investigate and prosecute the evildoers, despite numerous laws that allow for that to happen. Why is this allowed to happen in these places?

Personally I have a pretty decent job, but I'm leaving it soon. And when I do I'll post a 100% solid recommendation for the place on the forum, because I actually made it work and I enjoyed it.

China pales in comparison to the nightmares migrant workers in the US and Canada are experiencing.

Has the state of EFL in China sunken to such depths that an argument is going on to try and prove that FT's are treated better than migrant manual and service laborers in NA - this is so funny!!!!!

I thought you guys were wanna-be ex-pats - as such, you're of course treated a lot better than an itinerant Mexican fruit picker - but in the world of ex-pat living and working conditions I think, due to the very backward and mercenary nature of your Chinese employers, you're based at the very bottom of the league!!!!!

Last edited by chinadad on Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:52 am; edited 1 time in total

I also think its undeniable that China offers opportunity that is not always available in western countries.

Please elaborate on this - and give examples.
For example for every business man, of Chinese decent that has set up some kind of independent enterprise in the west - how many foreigners have done the same here????
In the field of education - so many highly qualified academics of Chinese origin working in western institutions of research and higher education - how many qualified teachers working in your schools - how many in any university??????
In art - when their work is critical and questioning - Chinese artists often set up exhibition in the west - do you find many western artists who challenge convention through free thinking being invited to exhibit or perform in China??????
Yes please tell me where this opportunity is - at least for the type of folk who come out here as FT's. I have a feeling that, without some niche specialist expertise, if you didn't make it in the west, then making it here, partly due to the type of local employer or business partners you have to work with, is going to be infinitely more difficult - but then you can always believe the streets are paved with gold.

@china dad - I've given 3 clear examples of people who have taken advantage of opportunities in China. I think I'll just bow out gracefully from this thread, and some of us will have to agree to disagree.

@china dad - I've given 3 clear examples of people who have taken advantage of opportunities in China. I think I'll just bow out gracefully from this thread, and some of us will have to agree to disagree.

A retired woman who opens a small art gallery - a guy who gets a job in construction (was this through being an FT - or is this an ex-pat contract type situation) - and a Chinese girl who gets to travel for medical company in Europe and South America.
Hardly the kind of stuff that are the kind wow provoking revelations that would convince many that opportunity is greater in China than back home. If anything they sound so ordinary that they play more like stories about having achieved something - despite the fact that these folk live in China

Chinese EFL employers are bad because they are following the party line. They are told what to say and what to think. Foreigners are the cause of all China's problems according to their leaders. If people fear you, then you are a good soldier and will be rewarded.
Wage slavery is a global problem now. Governments promote it. The immigrant is the easiest to victimize. The Chinese English teacher is a threat to their system of mind control. Watch how students study in China. They must recite out loud when they study. This is so everyone is aware of what they are thinking.
If you go to any recruiting company in China you will find a large staff of highly proficient Chinese English writers whose job is paint a rosy picture of how great it is to teach in big rice bowl. They sometimes fight with each other on this forum to get it unwanted post shut down.
Teaching in English in China is WAGE SLAVERY.

There are some truly bad employers in China, one would expect to find them everywhere, but what goes on here in China pales in comparison to the nightmares migrant workers in the US and Canada are experiencing.

Did that little gem come straight from a CPC indoctrination session? Sounds like something The Great Helmsman himself might have spouted!!

Having read through the links you so kindly posted, it's obvious that the abuse mentioned occurs to either illegal immigrants (so no sympathy) or to legal immigrants who choose not to report abuse to one of the many government departments set up to help them. So no sympathy yet again.

choudofu I get a contact drunk watching you gombei red label. But to tell you the truth I was hoping to get loved ones out but now I have resigned myself to knowing the wage slavery is everywhere. The GENIcoeficient isn't available in China. Don't need one there you can see it everyday. Every government Kow Tows to Beijing and all the multinationals. Teachers a pretty safe position to be in when things get nasty. As the bible says the weak shall inherit the earth. Just like the history of the Communist party and their overthrow of The Kouminftang 60 years ago.
My real reason is that I like to watch anarchy. 50,000 demonstrated in Hong Kong against the Beijing Executive Officer two weeks ago. Taiwan same thing two days ago. 6 months ago over a 100,000 demonstrated in Hong Kong over Beijing plan to impliment it's national education curiculum to Hong Kong. Not everyone wants to be brainwashed.
Don't drink too much superman it is the number one cause of diabetes in China.