A few days ago I got into debate with a Bahi convert over Muhammed. Bahais recognize all prophets including Muhammed. They seem to cherry pick religious literature they want to accept because the guy I spoke with told me my sources on wife beating in Islam are invalid. The sources I qouted were the Hadiths, Tafsirs, Musllim scholars, along with the Quran. He told me my info is all wrong that I should use the info available from a Bahai site.

Bahais want to lay the foundation of the world unity through denial and by hiding their heads in the sand. Here is a passage from Baha’u’llah’s writing that crystallizes the Baha'is approach to truth and facts.

11. O SON OF DUST! Blind thine eyes, that thou mayest behold My beauty; stop thine ears, that thou mayest hearken unto the sweet melody of My voice; empty thyself of all learning, that thou mayest partake of My knowledge; and sanctify thyself from riches, that thou mayest obtain a lasting share from the ocean of My eternal wealth. Blind thine eyes, that is, to all save My beauty; stop thine ears to all save My word; empty thyself of all learning save the knowledge of Me; that with a clear vision, a pure heart and an attentive ear thou mayest enter the court of My holiness.

That is not the way to find the truth. I could be the ugliest person, but if you are not allowed to see anyone but me and compare me with them then it is easy to convince you that I am the most handsome man. If you are not allowed to hear any other word than mine, you may be easily convinced that I am the wisest person in the world. Something becomes the best when it is compared with the rest, not when all its contenders are eliminated or ignored. Anyone can become the first if he is the only contender.

Baba’is are sincere and good people. They genuinely love all the people irrespective of their religion or race and many of them live a sacrificial life to bring the message of Baha'u'llah to the world. They strive to overcome all prejudices. The only problem is that they want to lay the foundation of the future of mankind on false premises. They think the solution to all the problems affecting mankind is to sweep them under the rug. Out of sight is out of mind. They are very educated and smart people and at the same time very naïf. They are at both extremes. It may sound an oxymoron, but Baha'is are smartest naïfs.

The biggest problem with Baha'is is that they refuse to debate. They love discussions as long as you ask the "right" questions. When questions get tough, they withdraw from debate. The right question is an inquiry. You ask them about something and they tell you what is the Baha'i answer. The wrong question is when it is challenging. They don't want to get into argument. Even Muslims, whom I believe are the dumbest people in the world are willing to debate, but Baha'is are not. They truly follow the teaching of “be blind and deaf and ignorant,” prescribed by their prophet. They are very much cocooned and in that bubble of denial they seem to be quite happy.

The irony of all this is that one of the 12 principles of their faith that they promote is "independent search for truth." This teaching however, is just a window dressing. Nothing more than a slogan. It is what they expect others to do to find the Bahai faith, but once you find it you must close all doors of searching. There is nothing to search after becoming a Baha'i. The Baha'i Faith is the destination - the end of the journey.

Last edited by Ali Sina on Mon May 13, 2013 8:01 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Ali Sina wrote:Baba’is are sincere and good people. They genuinely love all the people irrespective of their religion or race and many of them live a sacrificial life to bring the message of Baha'u'llah to the world. They strive to overcome all prejudices.

From my experience, Baha’is behave just like Muslims in discussions. Dismiss criticism of Islam out of hand and accuse critics of racism, Islamophobia, etc., but are more than happy to tell you that Christianity is corrupt or that Christians were violent 1,000 years ago. Sure, they wouldn't physically harm you, but their beliefs make less sense than Muslims. They're also intolerant of apostates and homosexuals (obviously not to the extent of many Muslims). All this from people who are sheltered or live safely in Christian-majority or Jewish countries and are exterminated like rats in Muslim countries. I have more respect for a religious Muslim than I do for them.

Ali Sina wrote:Bahais want to lay the foundation of the world unity through denial and by hiding their heads in the sand. Here is a passage from Baha’u’llah’s writing that crystallizes the Baha'is approach to truth and facts.

11. O SON OF DUST! Blind thine eyes, that thou mayest behold My beauty; stop thine ears, that thou mayest hearken unto the sweet melody of My voice; empty thyself of all learning, that thou mayest partake of My knowledge; and sanctify thyself from riches, that thou mayest obtain a lasting share from the ocean of My eternal wealth. Blind thine eyes, that is, to all save My beauty; stop thine ears to all save My word; empty thyself of all learning save the knowledge of Me; that with a clear vision, a pure heart and an attentive ear thou mayest enter the court of My holiness.

That is not the way to find the truth. I could be the ugliest person, but if you are not allowed to see anyone but me and compare me with them then it is easy to convince you that I am the most handsome man. If you are not allowed to hear any other word than mine, you may be easily convinced that I am the wisest person in the world. Something becomes the best when it is compared with the rest, not when all its contenders are eliminated or ignored. Anyone can become the first if he is the only contender.

Baba’is are sincere and good people. They genuinely love all the people irrespective of their religion or race and many of them live a sacrificial life to bring the message of Baha'u'llah to the world. They strive to overcome all prejudices. The only problem is that they want to lay the foundation of the future of mankind on false premises. They think the solution to all the problems affecting mankind is to sweep them under the rug. Out of sight is out of mind. They are very educated and smart people and at the same time very naïf. They are at both extremes. It may sound an oxymoron, but Baha'is are smartest naïfs.

The biggest problem with Baha'is is that they refuse to debate. They love debate as long as they are winning. When questions get tough, they withdraw from debate. Even Muslims, whom I believe are the dumbest people in the world are willing to debate, but Baha'is are not. They truly follow the teaching of “be blind and deaf and ignorant,” prescribed by their prophet.

The irony of all this is that one of the 12 principles of their faith that they promote is "independent search for truth." This teaching however, is just a window dressing. Nothing more than a slogan. It is what they expect others to do to find the Bahai faith, but once you find it you must close all doors of searching. There is nothing to search after becoming a Baha'i. The Baha'i Faith is the destination - the end of the journey.

Ali your post just about sums up this person. This person told me he his iq is a 140 points and has two college degrees. I also got into an argument with him over Syria. The guy takes what the media says on Syria at face value and I tried educate him.

With muslims, or anybody else, I have always found it most effective to ask very pointed questions. It isn't really necessary to get into a long-winded explanation to explain why I find a particular faith illogical and/or objectionable. Like Ali Sina said, muslims are stupid. They are incapable of digesting anything complicated anyhow.

Just keep asking questions. I use the analogy that my ice hockey coach taught us as kids. Just keep the puck in the opponent's end of the rink. It doesn't matter if they have the puck most of the time. They can't score from their own end, and sometimes you can steal the puck from them and score. Sometimes they even put the puck in their own net.

All we need is a single imperfection to blow a hole in anything related to "God". After all, "God" is supposed to be "perfect", "all-knowing", and "just". That imperfection can be something illogical, inconsistent, or morally objectionable, and it can be two or all of those as well.

My experience with B'hais is that the faith is, to some degree or other, all of those things. One must only break a single link in their chain to invalidate anything they are trying to convince you about. I asked a B'hai if he considered the Koran the word of god and Muhammad to be a prophet. He answered "yes". I then informed him that I could never accept his faith because islamic literature confirms that Muhammad was a thief, paedophile, rapist, and murderer (among other things), and that the koran permits and/or demands those things. I am opposed to paedophilia, violence against women, and rape. If he, as a B'hai has any measure of acceptance of Muhammad and/or the koran, then I cannot accept B'hai.

That's all I need to know. I need not know one single syllable of the B'hai's holy books to find the faith unacceptable.

The prophet of Islam was nothing more than a common criminal.

Please tell me if this is accurate:

“I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken.” ~MUHAMMAD (Al-Tabari 6:111)