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Not sure what you are saying here, outside that presence at a bar-fight is now worse then driving a car DUI 50% over the speed limit.

What if he had hit one of your friends?

Where did I say he WAS arrested?

Or is it "put words in my mouth," not once but twice in the same post.

Show me where I said that a bar fight is worse than driving drunk.

And on a personal note, one of my friends did die in an auto accident where the driver had been drinking. The driver was also a very good friend.

But guess what, that's been four weeks and his blood draw level still hasn't been released. He blew a .27 on the scene, but even the lead investigating officer admitted to my face that the onsite PBT was wrong. The hospital, unoffically, tested him at .05, which is under the legal limit.

I'm involved in a situation first hand worse than this, and the current situation has given me a little more insight on how the state actually determines you were "drunk." The link you posted said he tested a .09, which btw is unofficial because that has to come from the ISP and that could take over a week. I was also told that the onsite PBT, hospital test, and the ISP tests hardly ever match up. He said that sometimes they go up, sometimes they go down, and it's not out of the question that it varies by .03 (he said .03 specifically because that would be the change needed in my friends case for him to be considered drunk).

But again, show me where I said Tinsley had been arrested twice and where I said that a bar fight is worse than drunken driving.

Re: Dominic Rhodes Under Arrest

UB, I completely agree about the obvious double-standard Kravitz applies concerning the Pacers and Colts.

However, the difference is that this is involving one player, not a group, and it's somewhat of an isolated incident whereas the Pacers as a whole have had a negative public perception due to continuous events, starting with the Palace brawl.

Plus, winning a championship tends to lend a little leeway by the fans.

Re: Dominic Rhodes Under Arrest

Rhodes was a heck of a player this past season but he was always an undersized mediocre full back IMO. Not taking anything away from what he did for us on our SB run, but come on.... any Colts fan would be lying if they didn't agree that Doms impact this year was anything other than a pleasant surprise.

It's not a huge loss if hes not here next season.

Other than that I think its obvious that this city is still feeling good about the NFL championship and negative news regarding the Colts doesn't really want to be heard by Indy residents....

Re: Dominic Rhodes Under Arrest

Funny, I didn't think I'd be proud of my son if he got caught doing 81 in a 55 or was arrested for beating his girlfriend, but Tony Dungy promised me that there's not a guy on the roster I wouldn't be proud to call my son, so it must be true!

Re: Dominic Rhodes Under Arrest

Funny, I didn't think I'd be proud of my son if he got caught doing 81 in a 55 or was arrested for beating his girlfriend, but Tony Dungy promised me that there's not a guy on the roster I wouldn't be proud to call my son, so it must be true!

You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

Dungy's off-field community work is roughly equal to that of Jermaine O'Neal's. I don't see you spouting his praises.

Regardless, what does this have to do with all the glowing praise about how every single Colts player is a great guy that you'd be proud to have as a son? Funny, my dad would be ashamed of me if I was a wife-beater who piloted a drunken death-sled around 465. But hey, he's good with the fans, as long as they stay off 465 when he decides he needs to get home in a hurry.

If Rhodes had run a family off the road, seriously injuring them or killing someone, would we still be brushing this off? To me, drunk driving is far, far worse than being involved in barfights, because the driver had an easy avenue to prevent him possibly killing someone. If you're in a bar, sometimes you get put into a bad situation that you had no control over. That's never the case with drunk driving. If it were up to me, DUI while speeding would be a class C or D felony.

Re: Dominic Rhodes Under Arrest

Dungy's off-field community work is roughly equal to that of Jermaine O'Neal's. I don't see you spouting his praises.

Regardless, what does this have to do with all the glowing praise about how every single Colts player is a great guy that you'd be proud to have as a son? Funny, my dad would be ashamed of me if I was a wife-beater who piloted a drunken death-sled around 465. But hey, he's good with the fans, as long as they stay off 465 when he decides he needs to get home in a hurry.

If Rhodes had run a family off the road, seriously injuring them or killing someone, would we still be brushing this off? To me, drunk driving is far, far worse than being involved in barfights, because the driver had an easy avenue to prevent him possibly killing someone. If you're in a bar, sometimes you get put into a bad situation that you had no control over. That's never the case with drunk driving. If it were up to me, DUI while speeding would be a class C or D felony.

I stand corrected. In the future Tony Dungy should A. Not mention his players or B. Say most of my team is made up of good guys, but not all.

Jermaine O'Neal represents the community well with the many charities he supports and speeches to young people about the dangers in life. Hopefully Tony Dungy is willing to take the extra effort and surpass Jermaine in this.

You're mistaken if you think I'm happy or condone what Dominic Rhodes did. At that speed even if he wasn't drinking is reckless indeed. I assume you took my statement too bad for Dominic as I'm ok with this. As stated above I'm not. Am I ok with beating wives? I can assure you I am not. What I can tell you is I have had the opportunity to talk with Dominic and his family many times and from what I have observed they are a typical close family. Do I know what goes on behind closed doors no I don't. I can only base my opinion on what I see and from what I've seen with my own eyes the guy is decent.

To tie this all up Eindar I'm not happy that our Pacers are getting hammered in the papers. I'm not happy when the athletes that represent my teams (Colts included) have their head up the backside and mess up. Because of the Brawl everything does get blown out proportion. Shoot what kind of story is it when they have to publish Dallas Clark is asked to leave a high school game. Getting a little crazy and absurd.

Hey if it makes people feel better that the Colts are not angels then so be it. You might be surprised I've never been under the allusion this is true.

You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

Re: Dominic Rhodes Under Arrest

Indianapolis Colts running back Dominic Rhodes on Thursday was charged with two misdemeanors alleging that he was drunk while driving on a local interstate at more than 80 mph early Tuesday

More details of the arrest emerged in a probable cause affidavit, a sworn statement filed by state police Trooper Ahmad I. Hafez to document the charges.

Hafez said he clocked Rhodes at 82 mph in a 55-mph zone and watched the Colts player's GMC Yukon drive onto the shoulder briefly just after 3 a.m. Tuesday on northbound I-65 near 71st Street.

After failing two field-sobriety tests, Rhodes told Hafez he had consumed two or three alcoholic drinks. While sitting in the police car's front seat, Rhodes urinated on himself, the report said.

Later, Rhodes' blood-alcohol level tested at 0.09, just over the 0.08 level at which an Indiana driver is considered drunk.

"Mr. Rhodes asked if I could allow his girlfriend to come and get him instead of me taking him into custody," Hafez wrote. "I told him no."

The charges are a Class A misdemeanor for operating a vehicle while intoxicated and a Class C misdemeanor for operating a vehicle while having a blood-alcohol level between .08 and .15. If Rhodes, 28, is convicted of the charges, the maximum penalty is up to one year in jail, but typically a first-time DUI conviction brings probation and other penalties.

The initial hearing is scheduled for 1 p.m. Monday at Marion Superior Court.

Colts make moves

The Colts added former Ball State punter Reggie Hodges and released safety Dexter Reid, defensive end Jonathan Welsh and tight end Jerome Collins. Hodges signed a three-year contract at the league-minimum salary.

Re: Dominic Rhodes Under Arrest

Just so you guys know.... It is nearly impossible to 'pass' FST's since the pass/fail grade is fairly subjective. Also, the 'grade' is handed out only after the arrest has been made and the paperwork filed.

Am I saying a police officer would lie? No....
I'm saying what he might call a failure would not be called a failure by anyone watching the tests. The perception is that a failure is someone staggering down the straight line, missing their nose entirely with their index finger (or pinky), falling over, etc..

If the policeman is asked (via deposition or on the stand (tho it would be stupid to ask it on the stand in trial unless you had video tape or the deposition in your arsenal as a defense atty)) to actually describe the test and performance, what he rates as the reason for the failure can be arguably fairly insignificant (especially to a jury).

An example, in the 'walk and turn' test you're expected to keep your hands at your side. If at any point, including the turn, your hands don't remain RIGIDLY at your side the officer could deem that a failure even if you walked the line perfectly. His paperwork won't say you walked the line perfectly, it'll just mention your inability to keep your hands at your side as requested and a mark of 'fail'.

Another example would be the 'one legged stand'. The officer could instruct you to count (as you hold one leg off the ground) "1000-1, 1000-2, 1000-3..."
And you raise your leg and count "1-1000, 2-1000, 3-1000...." He can call that a failure even if you maintained your balance perfectly fine (you didn't count EXACTLY as he'd instructed).

And of course none of this stuff is exactly easy in the first place. It's typically late, dark, you're nervous (whether you've had a drink or not), embarassed, you're not on level ground, there could be wind, an old injury, tiredness, etc all at play.

Most attys will tell you that the FST's aren't so much to prove your sobriety as just give the officer more evidence against you. By the time you're taking the FST's the officer has a pretty good idea that he's going to be making an arrest or else he wouldn't be asking you to do them in the first place. So obviously his opinion on a subjective pass/fail will skew toward fail. And he doesn't have to give you the grade right then, it'll only be after the PBT and if that is a fail (or close) then after you take the breathalyzer at the station (and if that is a fail) only then will he actually put his grades into writing.

Now, one of the failed FST's could've been the eye test. We'll need a doctor or doctor of optometry to speak to that.

And in the 'never do that' category- When Rhodes said he'd had '2 or 3 alcoholic drinks'. A prosecutor can make hay with that all day long. "Is it 2 or is it 3? You don't know? Then it could be 4 couldn't it... afterall you don't know... 2...3...4... maybe 5. You weren't counting were you?"

Of course another question is whether once he was in custody he kept talking or requested an atty.

At .09 the margin of error can be a big factor here (I'd expect that breathalyzer (if in fact that is what was used) to have its records thoroughly checked and I'd expect an expert to be lined up who will speak to the effects of raw alcohol and other false positive scenarios should this go to trial. And there's certain procedures that must be followed in regards to the breathalyzer so you can rest assured those will be taken into account.

I wouldn't convict him just yet on what little we've heard. Hearing he failed a couple of FST's without hearing the FST performance described in detail really means nothing to us on the outside looking in.

Re: Dominic Rhodes Under Arrest

Just so you guys know.... It is nearly impossible to 'pass' FST's since the pass/fail grade is fairly subjective. Also, the 'grade' is handed out only after the arrest has been made and the paperwork filed.

Am I saying a police officer would lie? No....
I'm saying what he might call a failure would not be called a failure by anyone watching the tests. The perception is that a failure is someone staggering down the straight line, missing their nose entirely with their index finger (or pinky), falling over, etc..

If the policeman is asked (via deposition or on the stand (tho it would be stupid to ask it on the stand in trial unless you had video tape or the deposition in your arsenal as a defense atty)) to actually describe the test and performance, what he rates as the reason for the failure can be arguably fairly insignificant (especially to a jury).

An example, in the 'walk and turn' test you're expected to keep your hands at your side. If at any point, including the turn, your hands don't remain RIGIDLY at your side the officer could deem that a failure even if you walked the line perfectly. His paperwork won't say you walked the line perfectly, it'll just mention your inability to keep your hands at your side as requested and a mark of 'fail'.

Another example would be the 'one legged stand'. The officer could instruct you to count (as you hold one leg off the ground) "1000-1, 1000-2, 1000-3..."
And you raise your leg and count "1-1000, 2-1000, 3-1000...." He can call that a failure even if you maintained your balance perfectly fine (you didn't count EXACTLY as he'd instructed).

And of course none of this stuff is exactly easy in the first place. It's typically late, dark, you're nervous (whether you've had a drink or not), embarassed, you're not on level ground, there could be wind, an old injury, tiredness, etc all at play.

Most attys will tell you that the FST's aren't so much to prove your sobriety as just give the officer more evidence against you. By the time you're taking the FST's the officer has a pretty good idea that he's going to be making an arrest or else he wouldn't be asking you to do them in the first place. So obviously his opinion on a subjective pass/fail will skew toward fail. And he doesn't have to give you the grade right then, it'll only be after the PBT and if that is a fail (or close) then after you take the breathalyzer at the station (and if that is a fail) only then will he actually put his grades into writing.

Now, one of the failed FST's could've been the eye test. We'll need a doctor or doctor of optometry to speak to that.

And in the 'never do that' category- When Rhodes said he'd had '2 or 3 alcoholic drinks'. A prosecutor can make hay with that all day long. "Is it 2 or is it 3? You don't know? Then it could be 4 couldn't it... afterall you don't know... 2...3...4... maybe 5. You weren't counting were you?"

Of course another question is whether once he was in custody he kept talking or requested an atty.

At .09 the margin of error can be a big factor here (I'd expect that breathalyzer (if in fact that is what was used) to have its records thoroughly checked and I'd expect an expert to be lined up who will speak to the effects of raw alcohol and other false positive scenarios should this go to trial. And there's certain procedures that must be followed in regards to the breathalyzer so you can rest assured those will be taken into account.

I wouldn't convict him just yet on what little we've heard. Hearing he failed a couple of FST's without hearing the FST performance described in detail really means nothing to us on the outside looking in.

I'm not defending drunken driving... just explaining how the system might work and what his atty will be looking at.

Maybe Skaut or Marion Deputy can add or correct anything if I've got anything wrong or maybe need more elaboration from the State's side of things.

-Bball

Dude, he pissed himself and "Later" blew a .09, which means it was higher, possibly much higher while he was driving.

This makes me sick. The guy is dead to rights, and you're sitting there defending him like he's a choir boy. Just make sure you defend Jamaal and Marquis this vehemently the next time they get in trouble. After all, that would be their 2nd arrest, which Dom has already matched or even exceeded.

Re: Dominic Rhodes Under Arrest

Dude, he pissed himself and "Later" blew a .09, which means it was higher, possibly much higher while he was driving.

This makes me sick. The guy is dead to rights, and you're sitting there defending him like he's a choir boy. Just make sure you defend Jamaal and Marquis this vehemently the next time they get in trouble. After all, that would be their 2nd arrest, which Dom has already matched or even exceeded.

I said:
"I'm not defending drunken driving... just explaining how the system might work and what his atty will be looking at."

And as far as that .09 being on the way down... There's no way to know that from the facts that are presented. It could be going up... it could be going down.... and it could be wrong.

But, since you missed it the first time: I'm not making a position one way or the other I am just explaining how this might play out legally IF they choose to fight it. Which doesn't mean he'll get any traction at all. And he might agree that he was 'dead to rights' and just plead guilty.

Jamaal and Quis could've just walked away and there's no case. If they did that, or if they tried and had to fight their way out for fear of their lives, then I'll be glad to defend them.

But then again, I'm not defending Dom... I'm explaining what his atty would most likely be looking at IF they chose to fight this.

-Bball

Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

------

"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."