This is my first post although I have been watching the forum for a little bit now. So here is a quick presentation. 40+ guy currently living in Vancouver. I have moderate experience paddling 6 persons racing Polynesian outrigger canoes both on lagoons (kind of flat water but with tides : )), and on the ocean (pretty sure this does not translate in whitewater experience at all).I have been interested to get into canoeing since I moved in Vancouver, so here I am.

I plan to do mostly flat water and eventually class I river. Trips will be mostly day trips and a couple of overnight / 2 night trips during the summer (I am full of good intentions to lot lot of tripping but I know that reality will be something else).Also, I will probably be mostly solo with potentially the dog and one of the kid from time to time.

So, to do this, I am planning to grab a Clipper Caribou S http://www.clippercanoes.com/caribou-s/This doesn't see to be a popular canoe but it seems to fit my requirements the best and I would like to go with Clipper since I live close to them).

I haven't paddled either of these boats.I have paddled a Bell Magic, a Clipper Solitude, and a 14 and 16' Clipper Prospectors with our two dogs.

By far the most comfortable for paddling with dogs is the 16' Prospector paddled backwards from the bow seat.I have bench seats so I can trim the boat accordingly for our two.Second is the Solitude with the high tractor seat and dog between your legs. A light gear offset in the stern is needed.

For tripping, the weight of the gear allows us to each have a dog in our boat.I trip with "my" dog up front in my Magic but the only way that's possible is with a heavy gear offset in the stern. My wife does the same with "her" dog in her Solitude.

So I say, at least try out a 16 Prospector.Way more dog friendly than any dedicated solo and way more multi-use.

Anything under 14 feet is very limited. You will not put a dog nor a kid in it too,

Be aware that those that paddle tandems solo . They are usually guys with the horsepower to overcome skin friction in the water. Also able to handle wind.. Its harder much harder to handle wind solo with a Prospector paddled backward from the bow seat UNLESS you have gear in it or the dog or the kid.. And neither is helping you paddle.

Paddling backwards from the bow seat is fine for open water paddling but the steering you get is like steering a shopping cart as you push it backward from the front through a grocery store. Try that in a crowded store!

Thanks for the answers. I get it, a prospector will be the most versatile and can do -almost- everything.

However, I think it will be too big for me : beginner level + will mostly be solo. I really like the Caribou S shorter length, lighter width and and narrower beam.This is why I was planing for a solo option knowing it's limited and upgrade to a Prospector / Tripper if the kids / dog get really into it.

Cheers,

T.

PS: Regarding outrigger paddling. Yes it's awesome, no I was not on the map (you have to train 5 to 7 days a week if you want to as the top guys seems to live on the water and train all the time!). Lagoon and open water are very different but both great (and sometimes a bit scary...). If you ever go to Tahiti, I highly encourage you to try to engage any paddler you might come across. If you stay in one of the inland hotel, lurk around the waterfront a little away from the tourists zone, you WILL find a Vaa'a store not far from the water (either totally beat-up or shining like a diamond). Speaking French helps a lot.

My buddy has the Clipper caribou. He's a big guy, 225, carries big loads and flies down the lake in the thing. He uses a kayak paddle and easily out-distances us in tandems. He's pretty happy with it, although it is his first dedicated solo, he always paddled tandems backward before.

Just a note on the prospector paddled backward...when I was young, I could make it work, but a couple of years ago, we had a kid go home sick on a trip, and I went from my dedicated solo to a Nova Craft 16 foot prospector. We were averaging about 25 k a day, and by the end of three days, I was beat, dogging it way behind the pack. If you want a solo boat, a dedicated solo is the way to go. If you want a tandem that is sometimes a solo, well then maybe look at other options.

I am trying to contact them. I sent them an email five days ago (no phone number or anything else on their website), but I am still waiting for an answer.They are probably all enjoying summer paddling somewhere (I am jealous ).

RHaslam wrote:

My buddy has the Clipper caribou....

Thank you for the info, this is a good news for me : )He is not around Vancouver by any chance?I didn't use a double paddle since I was a kid (in another century ), can be fun to give it a try. I am of average height (1m80) so I will have to check that the beam is not too large for me to be able to do that.

If possible rent/borrow the Clipper(s) and NC. At least one of the retailers here will let you borrow a boat or have some option to try before buy - see if that is possible. Take your child, dog, a barrel/pack of stuff along - mix and match, spend a reasonable amount of time paddling about (even if it is in a little pond).

You don't mention the age of your child or the size of your dog (or how active). The Caribou is 15+ long but a little narrow if you are used to a tandem boat. It might feel a little sketchy with an active dog/child. Children tend to grow so that might be a consideration since it looks like you will want to use the canoe into the future.

I like having a dedicated solo canoe but it can be limiting as your child (children?) grow and you want to take them out and have them paddle with you. In the end if you really like paddling you might end up with more than one canoe.

The Caribou has 2" rocker and 20" of height (bow & stern). Tripper-S is longer but the bow/stern are not as high (it has an asymmetric hull but the specification don't provide the rocker differential).

I am not a fan of tractor seats but that is more personal preference. With the tractor seats I like having a foot brace. The tripper-S has a solo thwart which some people don't like as it is not really for sitting on but kneeling - if you have bad knees/ankles this can be an issue.

You're probably right about the BCC leaders being out paddling! Assuming you e-mailed the membership director or pres, they should eventually get back to you. Poke around the webpages and newsletter and you should find info on a Sept meeting, or possibly upcoming trips and other contacts.

The core membership/leadership/schedule of the club has usually been focused on ww river trips, but I'm not sure if its current make-up. There certainly are lots of people who own different types of canoes and do all sorts of tripping too.

For the paddling your talking about I prefer bench seats. They offer the most flexibility for facing forward or backward, and also for shifting your weight around to one gunwale or the other.

My legs are still stiff from the little trip I did kneeling in a ww saddle - which means you're seated quite low and kneeling the whole time. It's very hard on your knees and ankles - puts your lower legs to sleep. It also uses different leg muscles to help control the boat in a wind etc., I woke up at night with leg cramps in weird places and I'm still stiff! Much nicer to not be kneeling so low the whole time and to be able to shift your weight around. (A kneeling thwart could be hard on the legs too, but at least you'd sitting higher and could shift around more. I don't see these very often.)

The gap in my fleet now is a 14-15' canoe that can be used as a solo tripper or a small tandem (e.g. NC Bob Special, Old Town Camper). For solo I just have ww playboats or a big 18' family canoe, neither of which are good for solo tripping on lakes.

P.

_________________Learning to paddle is like learning a language:
It's easy to learn the basics, but will you be understood in a strong wind?

On Aug 26th looks like the BCC has a trip planned for a day paddle on False Creek in downtown Vancouver. You might want to check that out to get a feel for that crowd, and to ask questions about boats and the club. P.

_________________Learning to paddle is like learning a language:
It's easy to learn the basics, but will you be understood in a strong wind?

I get it, a prospector will be the most versatile and can do -almost- everything.

However, I think it will be too big for me : beginner level + will mostly be solo. I really like the Caribou S shorter length, lighter width and and narrower beam.

This is why I was planing for a solo option knowing it's limited and upgrade to a Prospector / Tripper if the kids / dog get really into it.

A Prospector hull is a fine and time honored design. I expect I will offend some die hard Prospector fans, but it is not the be-all, end-all, do-all of canoe design. No canoe is. A Prospector shines in carrying a load in moving water. It is not, to take one example, a lake-in-the-wind solo. A tandem Prospector is overlarge for many solo paddlers, unless they are loaded with picks and shovels, a dressed moose or over-wintering trapping gear and victuals.

“Mostly solo”. I wish I remembered the exact boat buying advice offered by a long-time canoe designer, but it went something like “Buy a canoe designed for what you realistically intend to do most of the time”.

Unspoken in that advice is to ignore future fantastzing “Maybe I’ll paddle Class 3 someday, or want to take the kid”. That is a different canoe. In the future that different canoe will not be an upgrade, it will be a second (third, etc) canoe, designed for a specific purpose.

The Caribou S seems like a good solo canoe choice that would work with a small dog. Maybe not so much to accommodate a growing kid.

Hey tereva, it matters how big you are, how big your dog is, and whether you seriously want to be able to take another small person. In my experience almost any solo can handle a dog up to 60-70 pounds. One thing I see on the Caribou is that it is rated average for agility so it may be more of a traveling boat than a playful river boat. Also...a kid will throw off the trim of the boat big time. Hopefully you can go test paddle some of their boats if Clipper is nearby. Tractor seats are comfy but they are made for sitting, not kneeling. Some people sit, others kneel. Kneeling lowers your center of gravity and gives max boat control. You can see with the sliding tractor seat in the front of the Tripper S it would be hard to kneel. I'd like to paddle a Tripper S, that boat looks good to me. Cheers.

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