My hate is because 3 of the most important characters died! If they'd have kept at least Scott alive, it'd have been better for me. And I know it's because James Marsden had schedule conflicts but, darn, they should have re-scheduled or something! I understand the professor "died", I mean, he always kind of dies anyway. But... just too many people dying for me.

Important characters die in Greek tragedies and Shakespeare plays, just to name a few examples. I don't get how this is inherently wrong.

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Originally Posted by RomyFan

Though the final fight was pretty cool.

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Originally Posted by Doomed_hero

You take, to me mind you, the most important character in x-men lore (cyclops)and kill him off like he is nothing. Then to poor salt on the wound you have Logan lead the teeam giving Cyclops type speech and act like he is Jeans true love even if they really have hardly talked in the movie verse. You could have really have keptScott alive and taken over most of Logans parts concerning Jean. Even have him be able to bring her back in the end(minus all the death she causes of course). It would not have made it a perfect movie cause there where many other problems with it. but when scott died i kinda stopped caring

Cyclops was never the most important character in the movies, as he has been in the comics. But if he dies, wouldn't it have been really painful if no one led the team and gave an inspirational speech? And well, there was a connection between Logan and Jean, and it was not her saying "forget it man, I just love Scott." Wasn't here, wasn't in the previous movies.

And sure, most movies would have had no hero dead and all good guys rescued just fine. But to act like this is a rule that can't be broken, and pretending this movie is bad because of how much more traditional it could have been, it's a little too much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angamb

Ratner and Fox mainly cared for Wolverine and Storm. The other x-men werent interesting enough to make them shine.

Every X-Men movie has had to make its choice. You cannot give 15 characters the same importance. And it's clear that X-Men and X2 also favored Wolverine above the rest.

But I'd add to that list Magneto and Xavier, who were always important to the three first movies.

I think if they minimized the amount of *characters* that were in the movie, it would have been so much better. Sure it was cool and interesting to see many mutants in 1 movie but if you don't give them much role or importance, then its really not good.

With the Brotherhood, I wouldn't include Omega Kid, Arclight, Psylocke and Multiple Man. I would just focus on Magneto, Jean, Callisto, Mystique, Pyro and Juggernaut and I would give them more things to do especially Juggernaut.

Then for the X-Men, I would include Angel in the battle as one of the X-Men, I would give Colossus more lines and importance in the team, Cyclops will be in the movie until the climax of the film and even if Rogue takes the cure, I would give her action scene first.

I also wouldn't include Trask in the movie and I would stay true to the physical appearance of Leach in the comics.

__________________2017 films - best to worst
Wonder Woman, Planet of the Apes, Guardians of the Galaxy, Spider-Man, Logan, Kong, Fast & Furious, Cars, Alien, Beauty and the Beast, Power Rangers, Resident Evil, The Mummy, Pirates of the Caribbean, Ghost in the Shell, Underworld, Transformers

I don't "hate" X3. I mean, I'd say it's the worst of the trilogy. X1 and X2 are somewhat better. I also don't hold those first two in very high regard. They are all just average to me.

There were some flaws with X3. (But there were flaws in all the others too)
- Shadowcat/Iceman romance? lame. Colossus was ripe for the picking.
- Angel. lame. superfluous. erroneous.
- Cyclops' death. lame. needs to be retconned.

Otherwise I'd say it's still watchable. And a decent addition to an average trilogy.

The only thing I really hated was Scott's death.He was one of my favorite characters,but (arguably) apart from the first film,he never really got his due in this series.Of course,we could probably thank Superman Returns for his lack of screen time.

I really liked the battle between Prof X and Mag over Jean and the subsequent "house fight".That was probably the highlight for me.

It had great action.Beast was great.Juggie was cool.Some nice payoffs like Iceman vs Pyro.In all honesty,I was glad it wasn't quite as heavyhanded as Singer's films usually got.

I am not sure if I should be posting in this forum whatever it will be moved if its not (not sure which X-Men board I can get the best answer on)..not trying to cause trouble I just ACTUALLY want to know..

WHY does everyone LAMBASTE and beat the **** out of "X-Men: 3"?!?

I watched it again it is awesome! Beast, Colossus, Juggernaut, Magneto, Wolverine, Mystique, Storm, Ice Man ALLLLL of these awesome characters BRING IT in this movie!!

The action scenes are phenomenal and exciting and there is a cool story, the pacing is great, there are funny moments, it doesn't drag the characters seemed to be connected and not totally different from the previous 2 films directed by Bryan Singer. Ok so maybe I dunno what..people have a personal vendetta with Ratner? Maybe they dislike the guy. I don't know him myself, and I happen to really enjoy all his other movies. They are fun and I get enjoyment out of them. So granted Archangel could have been utilized more but....REALLY what is the deal?

I am not trying to push my opinion down anyones throat so if you really didnt like the movie lol that's cool too.

I just really felt it was awesome and a childhood dream to see Beats, Colossus, Juggs, and everyone else on screen...AND just kicking ass left right and center.

Thanks

Sorry but that movie was awful from every angle.

1. Killing off Cyclops at the beginning off screen, no real explanation as to why - Remember Jean didn't just go killing everyone but only when agitated, so her killing Xavier actually made some sense but Cyclops? What the heck did he ever do to her?

2. Wasted use of Colosuss. As another poster said Colosus was perfectly teased in X2 so why is his use so minimilzed in this film? Also you have Juggernaught and Colosuss in the same film....a yet they never fight? No instead we have kitty pride run thru a wall let Jugs knock himself out! Really?!

3. Wasted use of Angel. Great actor, great look, even an compelling intro to the character but them he does...nothing. Yep.

4. Phoenix. I don't mind it being a part of Jean's personality instead of an alien entity but could we at least show some internal conflict instead of just going full on crazy, killing indiscriminately with no real motive and then no redemption! Nothing. No glimpse of Jean, no remorse at Scott's death, nothing, just Wolverine (again saving the day) but killing her. Waste.

5. Wolverine being the sole focus of the film...again! You've already had two movies featuring him, now there's a third then he gets two spinoff movies. come on! Can you say over exposure. Hugh is a great actor but frankly I can't wait until we actually get an X-men minus him.

6. Psylocke and some of the other morlocks in name only. too many characters just thrown in for their for no reason.

7. Magento's master plan...toss cars into the air while pyro sets them on fire Consider me underwhelmed.

1. Killing off Cyclops at the beginning off screen, no real explanation as to why - Remember Jean didn't just go killing everyone but only when agitated, so her killing Xavier actually made some sense but Cyclops? What the heck did he ever do to her?

It's perfectly explained. Jean is no Jean any more. Her negative instincts are all unbounded, that's very well explained in the movie. Her emotions are not only madly strengthened but also mixed. Her passion for this significant one from the past got mixed with her destructive instincts. Eros and thanatos together with no control whatsoever. She also killed Xavier himself, what the heck did he ever do to her. And even Magneto was slightly scared of her too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daybreak_st

2. Wasted use of Colosuss. As another poster said Colosus was perfectly teased in X2 so why is his use so minimilzed in this film? Also you have Juggernaught and Colosuss in the same film....a yet they never fight? No instead we have kitty pride run thru a wall let Jugs knock himself out! Really?!

Heh, "perfectly teased" is another term for "underused." No matter what, you cannot give every character a lot of time in a movie like this. There's just no way. Cyclops was underused in every movie according to many fans. It's far from being a problem of this movie exclusively.

But yes, Kitty and Juggernaut worked because their powers are diverse, it's not just the very strong vs very strong usual fight. And that's the richness of having such a diversity of super-powers. You can control metal, what good is it against a plastic cell; you can heal yourself, what good is when another mutant can take your powers away.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daybreak_st

3. Wasted use of Angel. Great actor, great look, even an compelling intro to the character but them he does...nothing. Yep.

Nope. He saved his father who was ashamed of him before. He gave another angle to the mutant issue, showing what happens if the mutant "condition" affects within his own family to one important man directly involved in the "anti-mutation cause." That son showed his dad that mutation was nothing to be ashamed of, whereas his own father had been ashamed of him.

The story needed further development, sure, but in so little time it did what it needed to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daybreak_st

4. Phoenix. I don't mind it being a part of Jean's personality instead of an alien entity but could we at least show some internal conflict instead of just going full on crazy, killing indiscriminately with no real motive and then no redemption! Nothing. No glimpse of Jean, no remorse at Scott's death, nothing, just Wolverine (again saving the day) but killing her. Waste.

You have that conflict when she faces Magneto and Xavier, and then when she faced Logan. And asking Logan to kill her was her redemption by showing remorse of what she was then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daybreak_st

5. Wolverine being the sole focus of the film...again! You've already had two movies featuring him, now there's a third then he gets two spinoff movies. come on! Can you say over exposure. Hugh is a great actor but frankly I can't wait until we actually get an X-men minus him.

As you say, this is not this movie characteristics but every single one of them (I'm talking about the first trilogy, of course). In movies overpopulated with superheroes you have to make your choices, but X-Men TLS didn't do any differently as its predecessors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daybreak_st

6. Psylocke and some of the other morlocks in name only. too many characters just thrown in for their for no reason.

There was plenty of reasons. This plot involved every mutant on earth. Of course there was a reason to have many of them as the main story here was how mutants were taking sides here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daybreak_st

7. Magento's master plan...toss cars into the air while pyro sets them on fire Consider me underwhelmed

That's not his master plan and I know you must understand this. Otherwise consider Senator Pleasury underwhelmed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daybreak_st

That's just off the top of my head.

Many of those either were in the movie or were common to every X-Men movie man.

It's perfectly explained. Jean is no Jean any more. Her negative instincts are all unbounded, that's very well explained in the movie. Her emotions are not only madly strengthened but also mixed. Her passion for this significant one from the past got mixed with her destructive instincts. Eros and thanatos together with no control whatsoever. She also killed Xavier himself, what the heck did he ever do to her. And even Magneto was slightly scared of her too.

Sorry but it's woefully inconsistent. Her first instinct is to kill the man she love, after kissing him? How does that make sense? She doesn't kill Magneto who presented a persistent threat, she doesn't kill Xavier until he provokes her so even that makes a little more sense. Scott actually frees her from the watery grave and the first thing she does is kill him? THAT MAKES NO SENSE!!!! I don't care how you spin it, the logic just isn't there.

Quote:

Heh, "perfectly teased" is another term for "underused." No matter what, you cannot give every character a lot of time in a movie like this. There's just no way. Cyclops was underused in every movie according to many fans. It's far from being a problem of this movie exclusively.

But yes, Kitty and Juggernaut worked because their powers are diverse, it's not just the very strong vs very strong usual fight. And that's the richness of having such a diversity of super-powers. You can control metal, what good is it against a plastic cell; you can heal yourself, what good is when another mutant can take your powers away.

It wasn't brain surgery, just have those two guys throw down a little, it was perfectly setup. It would've at least given Colossus a meaningful role in the film even if it was short, taking out the Juggernaut. But again he's wasted.

Quote:

Nope. He saved his father who was ashamed of him before. He gave another angle to the mutant issue, showing what happens if the mutant "condition" affects within his own family to one important man directly involved in the "anti-mutation cause." That son showed his dad that mutation was nothing to be ashamed of, whereas his own father had been ashamed of him.

The story needed further development, sure, but in so little time it did what it needed to.

I guess I just don't remember that much but it seemed like why even add the character for such a small role and lack of development. We saw plenty of angles on the Mutant view point we didn't need him added for that.

Quote:

You have that conflict when she faces Magneto and Xavier, and then when she faced Logan. And asking Logan to kill her was her redemption by showing remorse of what she was then.

It just seemed like so little. I mean again her first action is to kill Scott but them everyone gets a free pass until the end of the film (except for Xavier who provoked her). How is that logical? It felt more like character assassination. I really wish her story was the focus instead of the background.

Quote:

As you say, this is not this movie characteristics but every single one of them (I'm talking about the first trilogy, of course). In movies overpopulated with superheroes you have to make your choices, but X-Men TLS didn't do any differently as its predecessors.

Oh I agree but why keep expanding the cast if your focus will always stay with one person? Just more background/underdeveloped characters. I really hope for a Wolverine non-focused X-men franchise one day. And it really needs a full reboot bc as it will continue to tie-in to the previous franchise and miss the opportunity to tap into the more exotic aspects of the X-men universe like space travel, the savage land, etc. Not the fault of this movie per se but just the franchise as a whole.

Quote:

That's not his master plan and I know you must understand this. Otherwise consider Senator Pleasury underwhelmed.

Many of those either were in the movie or were common to every X-Men movie man.

What was the master plan other than stopping the mutant cure? For the grand finale I remain underwhelmed.

Sorry but it's woefully inconsistent. Her first instinct is to kill the man she love, after kissing him? How does that make sense? She doesn't kill Magneto who presented a persistent threat, she doesn't kill Xavier until he provokes her so even that makes a little more sense. Scott actually frees her from the watery grave and the first thing she does is kill him? THAT MAKES NO SENSE!!!! I don't care how you spin it, the logic just isn't there.

Sir, please. It's all well set and explained even when not immediately. Magneto does not present an immediate threat since he has protected her from those who wanted to "control" her. That makes perfect sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daybreak_st

It wasn't brain surgery, just have those two guys throw down a little, it was perfectly setup. It would've at least given Colossus a meaningful role in the film even if it was short, taking out the Juggernaut. But again he's wasted.

Sure, you'd have wanted to give Colossus a meaningful role and that's fine and right. But you cannot blame this one movie for not taking your choice and yet ignore all the previous movies did the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daybreak_st

I guess I just don't remember that much but it seemed like why even add the character for such a small role and lack of development. We saw plenty of angles on the Mutant view point we didn't need him added for that.

We had seen plenty of the mutant angle but this "cure" one was a different one. Specially if someone would want to get rid of one of their heirs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daybreak_st

It just seemed like so little. I mean again her first action is to kill Scott but them everyone gets a free pass until the end of the film (except for Xavier who provoked her). How is that logical? It felt more like character assassination. I really wish her story was the focus instead of the background.

One thing you have to bear in mind is that logic is the one thing Phoenix will NOT have into account. As I, and the actual movie, actually explained, is that the character is pure instinct unbounded.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daybreak_st

Oh I agree but why keep expanding the cast if your focus will always stay with one person? Just more background/underdeveloped characters. I really hope for a Wolverine non-focused X-men franchise one day. And it really needs a full reboot bc as it will continue to tie-in to the previous franchise and miss the opportunity to tap into the more exotic aspects of the X-men universe like space travel, the savage land, etc. Not the fault of this movie per se but just the franchise as a whole.

As I said, you gotta make choices in this kind of movie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daybreak_st

What was the master plan other than stopping the mutant cure? For the grand finale I remain underwhelmed.

Destroying everything is not a master plan, but the final part of it. And the way it is performed could vary.

Sir, please. It's all well set and explained even when not immediately. Magneto does not present an immediate threat since he has protected her from those who wanted to "control" her. That makes perfect sense.

Sure, you'd have wanted to give Colossus a meaningful role and that's fine and right. But you cannot blame this one movie for not taking your choice and yet ignore all the previous movies did the same.

We had seen plenty of the mutant angle but this "cure" one was a different one. Specially if someone would want to get rid of one of their heirs.

One thing you have to bear in mind is that logic is the one thing Phoenix will NOT have into account. As I, and the actual movie, actually explained, is that the character is pure instinct unbounded.

As I said, you gotta make choices in this kind of movie.

Destroying everything is not a master plan, but the final part of it. And the way it is performed could vary.

"I talked to the writers a lot about the ending of the film, wanting to make sure that it was clear that [Jean] wasn't taking a side between Magneto or the X-Men, and that it was a constant struggle in her head. But you know, if this had been a movie just about the Phoenix, we would have had a lot more time to explore all the different avenues that you can explore for that. But given the fact that there are so many characters in the X-Men, and we have to do justice to every single one of their storylines, we have to use broader strokes in that case, and you have to hope that it's clear."

It may have satisfied you but this film didn't exactly get rave reviews from fans or critics.

Dude, the guy who played Hawkeye in "The Avengers" didn't like how his character was handled. Is that a sign that the movie is bad?

And please, man, why oh why should I care for what fans or critics say? To "fit in"? We all, in this forum, are also critics and fans.

Yeah we all have opinions just saying most people didn't think the film was as good as you did. Anyway stumbled upon this and thought it was interesting, the movie sounds a lot better than what we got:

Notice the actual inclusion of Cyclops and satisfying ending for Jean.

Quote:

“The one idea that I loved, that I really wanted to do, was that Cyclops would build the Danger Room. Cyclops felt guilty, he felt that because the X-Men were too weak, they weren’t strong enough, they weren’t fast enough, that was the reason Jean died. If they were a little bit better at fighting, then she might still be alive. It was all about this guilt he had about her death and so he built the Danger Room to train them to be better. But in the end it really was about him not being able to let go of her, so that causes all the chaos and disruption in the movie. But in the end it’s about him letting her go.”

“Ultimately she kind of becomes that cosmic force that Phoenix is known to be, she choose to leave Earth and become a god, or at least a higher level of intelligence, and she goes into the cosmos possibly to kick-start life somewhere else… The final scene for me would have been her telling Cyclops or her telling the X-Men ‘I’ll be watching.’ Essentially she becomes a god.”

I thought the whole series let fans down by making tough, charismatic female characters more nice and "Hollywood girlfriend" like. Storm, a haughty African queen, made gentle and polite, Jean had none of her passion or noble soul either Dark or before, Emma Frost in FC was so much more wooden than I hoped especially after Morrison's version.

I think though this film was the worst for that, side-lining Dark Phoenix and making her a henchman. She should have had her own epic, tragic story, about the question of how the X Men can react when a loved one goes out of control, but it was lost in the other plot.

Anyone else bothered by the fact Pyro's hair was clearly brown in X-Men 2 then it was bright blonde in 3? Idk it's not a but deal but it really bugs me.

Anyway, just everything was wrong. It was too much blatant fan service and action porn and lacked the subtle substance that made the other two films so great. Even when I was 13 and I saw it for the first time in theaters I knew something didn't sit right.

I think though this film was the worst for that, side-lining Dark Phoenix and making her a henchman. She should have had her own epic, tragic story, about the question of how the X Men can react when a loved one goes out of control, but it was lost in the other plot.

Well, Phoenix had her scenes but yes, after the house fight scene it was relegated to a second position which happens a lot in this kind of overpopulated movies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenKenobi

Anyone else bothered by the fact Pyro's hair was clearly brown in X-Men 2 then it was bright blonde in 3? Idk it's not a but deal but it really bugs me.

I never realized that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenKenobi

Anyway, just everything was wrong. It was too much blatant fan service and action porn and lacked the subtle substance that made the other two films so great. Even when I was 13 and I saw it for the first time in theaters I knew something didn't sit right.

What were the 'subtle substance' in X2, if I may ask? I remember lots of action in that movie. The whole White House scene at the beginning was all for showing off how many cool special effects can you out in one scene.

In fact X2 forgot everything about mutants being social outcasts and it was another regular story of good guys vs bad guys. At least X-Men TLS came back to the original premise of the story.

Anyone else bothered by the fact Pyro's hair was clearly brown in X-Men 2 then it was bright blonde in 3? Idk it's not a but deal but it really bugs me.

Anyway, just everything was wrong. It was too much blatant fan service and action porn and lacked the subtle substance that made the other two films so great. Even when I was 13 and I saw it for the first time in theaters I knew something didn't sit right.

Complaining about Pyro's hair? That's just nonsense. Characters are allowed to change their hairstyles.

Dear God... I'm rewatching this now and the pacing and dialogue are horrendous.

__________________

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