UMECUnited Mining Exploration Commission: A group of friends playing JumpGate-- "a MMORPG that launched smoothly, breaks from fantasy character setting, emphasizes PvP, and is the first persistent world space simulator that nobody talks about." ~Scorch

I know a lot of rookies are more intent on getting into their first fighter/transport or learning the ropes, but it doesn't hurt to hit 'em with a little RP from day one

Yeah, np. pity it's just you me and a bunch of guys/gals cobbling together a mish-mash of notes scattered all over the forums here there and everywhere.

wouldn't it be cool if someone sat down without devs or GM/OPs or anyone official and wrote up why we call Jumpgate, "The Reconstruction Initiative" in a way even the layman can understand? (mission statement)

wouldn't it be neat if someone thought up a way to explain what *IC* meant to the layman? you know, stuff like "Why does TRI have a shitty economy and what's the reason behind calling the paramilitary branch of TRI pilot roster, "honor guard"? Why roids don't move...why alot of things that threaten *OOC* suspension of disbelief. (Someone's already asking these questions; click me)

Okay, first off i have to admit if a n00b asked me straight up wtf "TRI" meant and what are we doing here i can fudge, but n00bs aren't dumb. they never were...we're just kidding ourselves if we babble semantics of what "Reconstruction" means...i mean, hell. all the n00b would be listening to is a Thesaurus. We sound like Talking-heads when we try to explain the larger picture here in an *IC* way.

Damnit. i always get upset about this train of thinking. Okay, first off i've gotta look up a decent quote by shakespeare or mark twain or somebody talking about "Suspension of Disbelief" because otherwise it's just me and i don't pretend to have much imagination or wit. (i need some serious backup here)

*phew. omg right F'ing on! w00t! 1 easy simple entry on Quoteland.com ...blessed i am. okay morale doing good again. (god, i hate getting 200 entries of goop when i run a search)

Quote:

"...so as to transfer from our inward nature a human interest and a semblance of truth sufficient to procure for these shadows of imagination that willing suspension of disbelief for the moment, which constitutes poetic faith." ~Samuel Taylor ColeridgeChapter XIV of his autobiography, Biographia Literaria

Two centuries have passed since Coleridge nailed the idea. He got it as surely and neatly as Michael Jordan got a slam-dunk.
...
The idea was very much in the air of Europe at the time but Coleridge figured out how to say it in five words, words so well chosen that nobody needed to say it again or differently.
...
But what are these shadows, now lengthening, which if you look carefully have been there all the time? Shadows of doubt which if examined more closely seem to conceal abysses of ignorance and despair.
...
As one prominent figure wading through the bog recently put if: If objectivity is dead, then there’s no longer any question of who’s right; all that matters is who’s interesting.
~Douglas Milburn

Now, i won't start asking stupid philisophic questions about quantum physics and how even real life needs suspension of disbelief....that's just stupid. Right now i can't even explain what role i play in a sci-fi space-sim MMOG called "JumpGate". Not what character do i want to portray, but what role does my character play? What role does TRI play? More importantly, how do i explain this in plain english to a n00b who just asked me what "TRI" stands for and do it in such a way that the very explanation reinforces suspension of disbelief (ie. deconstructs the silly propaganda that said n00b is bound to have heard -- the "sound bites" -- the *pseudo-OOC* words told by fanbois who become rather blinkered in that everything that CAN be is the entirety of our JumpGate universe)glossary: NLS = nearlightspeed (spaceships); FTL = fasterthanlight (starships)

first, we must deconstruct the 9 planets = 1 galaxy. what follows is that TRI pilots stop becoming movers and shakers of a massive reconstruction initiative, but elite genetically engineered test pilots [read: crazed eunuchs] who help to construct prototypes of a civilization's attempt at recapturing the glory of an empire that spanned a galaxy, not just 9 planets.

Next, we need to explain what steps are being taken with the technology we HAVE (not what's on the drawing board in R&D; ie. Capital Ships - multipilot starships with FTL capability)...that explanation must be *IC* of course. Heretic just recently completed a synopsis of what methods "we" do have to gain strategic control in "our" galaxy. you can find that here: (click below pic for link)

next we need to point out that these pilots employed by an organization calling itself, "TRI", are not pioneers but highly paid throttle jockeys working for what is basically a glorified R&D section - A joint venture by three massive factional and very balkanized governmental empires paid for by taxpayers - now, the real pioneers are those folk out beyond the primary systems (there's hundreds if not thousands of heavily populated planets, only 9 of those are near stable anomalies) These pioneers who are lightyears from the nearest Jumpgate wait for TRI to finish testing the prototypes that R&D has released.

Next we need to explain the time scale here. TRI started recruiting massive amounts of test pilots only 2-3 years ago, while the farflung pioneers have been developing NLS propulsion and their faction's empires for a thousand years ever since civilization moved beyond the thousand year "Dark Age" after "The Great Collapse"...
...what's more, FTL communications weren't possible until 400 years ago and that only because some rocket scientist figured out how to piggyback a signal through one side of an anomaly to the other using jumpgate pylons on either side...200 years ago the means to genetically engineer humanoids to survive an FTP trip using the jumpgates was discovered. (so, in a nutshell, pioneers within 200 light years have begun preparing for the day FTL starships free themselves of anomalies, thus ushuring in the new era...an era long since turned to legend might become a reality within a single generation)

(*OOC* i assume you've read Heretic's story) So now we have Pioneers crewing NLS spaceships building the infrastructure for the return of the golden age. Okay, a n00b's gonna ask about who's in control. Is TRI some kind of hegemony ruled by some kind of "Caesar" or is TRI merely an R&D section of a shaky coalition between byzantine factional governments controlled by Megacorporations? (*OOC* i hope to Hamalzah and all that's holy NetDevil doesn't consider TRI pilots to be some Jedi Knight order in some kinda Space Opera)...Anyways, i'm going to assume the eleven Megacorporations control alot more than just the corner store of the stations servicing TRI. ALOT more.

alright, now i'm feeling better. So at this point in time i'm going to quote more excerpts from a magazine devoted to GDW's MegaTraveller's megacorporations.

Quote:

STRUCTURE
The megacorporations or "megacorps", as they are also called, are organized much like any smaller company. There is a board of directors, a chief executive offier, a president or presidents, a host of vice-presidents and so on. The difference comes in the amount of oversight these high level officers have. For the most part, due to the distance and travel times, they only make general policy and assign long term goals and objectives. [NLS comms outside of the systems near Jumpgates are the only way to communicate, except that this will change once the prototype "Subspace Transceiver" blueprints get transitted via NLS to the farflung pioneers in their spaceships and colonies far far away from any jumpgate.]. For now, operation of the megacorp's divisions falls under a regional general manager (RGM) or other individual with a similar title.
An RGM may control only a fraction of the corporation's total assets, but that fraaction may amount to more power than that wield by local factional officials. While a small number of factional and local regulatory agencies have power over the megacorps, regional managers can conduct business pretty much as they see fit. One unwritten rules remains inviolate though -- direct confrontation with the Factional governments is expressly forbidden because of the effect it could have on business. Of course this only means that RGMs are a little more careful where violations of Factional law are concerned.
...
Megacorporations take advantage of local situations to increase profits, but at the same time, they would suffer from the effects of a fragmented "TRI alliance" if such a thing happened. It would become harder to move resources and finished goods across contested space in such a case. Factories, warehouses and other property would become the target of factional armies and navies, pirates and commerce raiders. Corporate infighting would give rise to nasty tradewars and terrorist actions. Individual systems would nationalize megacorporate property, insurance rates would rise dramatically, and financial institituions would be less willing to fund new or continuing ventures. [Like the construction of Megacorporate owned Subspace Transceivers now underway.] Lastly, markets would fluctuate as new factions came into being and new borders were established. In time, the cost of doing business would begin to outstrip revenues from war profiteering. For the first time in their history the meagcorporations might operate at a net loss. Events would just move too fast in too many places for them to adjust quickly enough [even if "KTRI relays" were in place and FTL starships roamed across the entire galaxy.] In essense, the fragmentation of each megacorporation would mirror the disintegration of the "TRI alliance" if it ever did so. And if the megacorps fragment, so would the galaxy's economy.

Okay, i have to stop. in order to continue paraphrasing this excellent fictional article i need. NEED to know from an official source how far Sarath V's fist/hand stretches beyond the 9 systems and the sectors adjacent to jumpgates. (hopefully PiuX or a real life MightyGame's CEO or something, i'll take a developer from NetDevil or GM_Moll from Themis Group)

APPENDIX (the scattered threads)
Uhm...i have a stash of links concerning *IC* versus *OOC* plus a host of other roleplaying related topics here, there, a more volatile one here, a vociferous one located here and a horribly eccentric one here...finally there's a self-combusting one there.

I'm fairly sure we were more prolific explorers in the past, so rediscovering more of the close by universe would count as reconstruction.

And just generally building more things to expand and consolidate our inter system work. There are sectors now which have nothing in them except beacons and gates.

Assuming that what we lost in the Great Collapse relates directly to our technologies and inter-stellar structures, to recover that we have to really expand back into space, and research those technologies once more.

So we would need not just construction related to improving our lives as TRI pilots, but also construction which will benefit the planet-side population - resource collection (mining), increased trading capabilities (for inter faction goods which post collapse were no longer available), and technological research for all technology, not just for TRI pilots.

Since records on what was the norm before TGC are scarce, I'd prefer it if we measured reconstruction by what we've built and discoverd to benefit everyone. Just my :2c:

to your consideration. Despite the fact you may have forgotten you posted in it ;), even if you didn't say much constructive.

On the basis of that thread, and the lack of an official response then from MG, I think your answer will be along the lines of 'Um, that sounds about right, lets go with that'. The storyline, despite the fact that it is meant to be 3 years long, is (or seems to be) fairly lacking in the background detail of, say, the Star Wars or MechWarrior universes.

I think we'll find that the most convincing story is the one you write yourself - if the ND/MG devs don't have the time or inclination to make those calls, then perhaps we should be proposing background in some official form, and having them ratify it before integrating it into the official line?_________________OV : Gold 01
(Quartermaster)

the US thread that inspired that thread of Daishi was a barely contained flame war from hell. (a wynar post about the lack of Faction Missions...FYI, there has not been a single damned FM since august last year - "Josh too busy, etc" for 6+ months. what? is he coding from a prison cell or something?)

...remember, i'm not asking the GM's "What have you done for me lately?" in a FM sense at all. More like i've taken the KTRI subspace transceivers (an old FM) and am running with it. I've run as far as i can go and i need to know the parameters because i'm pushing the edge of the envelope here and it's mighty cold and lonely in deep space.
;)

Quote:

Originally posted by GMHollis The set of Quantar FMs to construct the Refuel Station and the armory in Quantar Gate was actually intended as reconstruction project. Repopulating space. The players didn't really welcome it, though. For quite some time after that, I had the opinion that any FM that won't have a direct benefit for the players would be slow, and perhaps not a good idea for the enjoyment of the game.

the reason players think buildings are lame is because Refuel stations don't recharge FFs, and Armouries don't sell missiles. (stuff like rocket pods might be a cool idea, but with POS arriving it's moot) ...Besides, with EP2 promising all the goodies i think talking about "TRI" being about the next "building"/FM is kinda facile.

How about we stop hearing, "RP? crap! they want more FMs and events...maybe a news blurb on JOSSH about something NEW AND IMPROVED!?" and start hearing "No, we aren't pulling stuff out our arse as we go along. there's a 3 year storyline. honest." and we start getting some answers to fundamental questions like, "TRI's power beyond the jumpgates and 9 systems, compared to the factions/corporations is...<insert official answer>" or "KTRI subspace transceivers and other buildings were built because...<insert official answer>" or "The pre-collapse technology didn't work and we needed to rediscover an entire new paradigm, but the reason Artifacts work is because...<insert official answer>" or "The population of the entire TRI universe, compared to the 9 systems is...<insert official answer>" or "TRI corporations, beyond their 'general store' dept.s at stations, have power and autonomy that, compared to the factions/TRI is...<insert official answer>" or "TRI markets receive injections/infusions of base commodities without TRI pilots hauling in ore from a source based...<insert official answer>"

And how about military NLS spaceship fleets? Who controls these strategic assets? Does TRI have a NLS navy of it's own or is TRI merely an alliance of Factions? If TRI is more than just a figurehead "galaxy bureaucracy" and is an actual Hegemony, does TRI permit the factions to own or even get away with NLS naval conflicts, or does TRI even have a say in intersystem warfare as long as it doesn't impact the jumpgate sectors? Do corporations own naval forces, and/or are they allowed to form battle fleets...are they even permitted autonomy or are they nationalized? Furthermore, if Factional (and/or TRI) navies are maintained through taxpayers then how much influence do the corporations have? Who builds the NLS spaceships? Going further, if Corporations aren't private but public nationalized institutions are they themselves the Factional/TRI navies?? Finally, if TRI is some Uberpowerful galaxy dominating force, then what how stable is this empire?

Heretic has answered some of these questions, here, but until we get official word we're all pissing in the wind, aren't we? (BTW, Xindaan long ago made a decent stab at the arty question, here; Mystery88 made a stab at station population, here)

yeah, i could decide what the answers are, but it IS their game and i tend to think that if i was the only one to have wrote something "answering" this question then i'd get really pissed later on if they decided that the opposite stance is the official one...Do you realize what a phenomenal waste of time this thread would be then? (yes yes, it's a joy to write and i'm happy to have a brain and to use it, but get real!) Besides, if they don't answer my question i'm going to be forced, on principle, to remove this from database forum and move it to the Fan Fiction forum.
:carebear:

Last edited by MajorFreak on Fri Feb 07, 2003 11:00 am; edited 5 times in total

You're not preserving a link to the thread then? (Or not at least noting your scary admin powers by leaving an edited by MajorFreak note? :))

Anyhoo, I think you'd have to actually track down either an ND dev, or probably GMIsk in IRC, or some real time sense, so that you can actually ask them the question directly. I had hoped when Gloomash and the others started the JG Background projects, that they would be integrated into the official story somehow, hence the reason I jumped on board and pushed everyone so hard. But for all the encouraging posts by GMs/OPs, not once did they ever give the hint that our efforts might be used to flesh out the universe.

Because let's face it, if it's not accepted into the official storyline, and used in JOSSH (or at least linked), then it's just seasoned RPers telling stories to other seasoned RPers, and it all goes right past the noob's heads. :headbang:_________________OV : Gold 01
(Quartermaster)

yeah. but, 1) i think "edited by muffy" would scare the unwashed masses away and 2) i don't know how to enable that flag. not to mention 3) look close at that quote i did. notice the link embedded in your name? 1337, yes?
lmao rofl

oh, and i think you agree with me about the fact we DON'T want n00bs to roll their eyes and stamp this thread and others with a big phat ugly Fan Fic stigma.

Anyway, there was a tendency to drift into speculation and random stuff on the JG Background threads, things like saying 'every station should have a DownTime area (poor quarter), etc.' Things that are quite fundemental and far reaching in the game, but made without justification. I was steering people away from things like that, which while required for fan fiction, were just more likely to discourage the powers that be from utilising any of our work._________________OV : Gold 01
(Quartermaster)

"We want THIS and THAT; we demand a share in that; and most of that; some of this; and fuckin ALL of that; less of that and more of this; and fuckin plenty of this; now then, we want it NOW; i want it yesterday; i want fuckin more tommorrow; and the demands will be all changed by then so fuckin stay awake"

This thread gives some inkling as to ND's approach to player-written fiction. I'd say start writing it. I can't see ND spending time sanctioning (or more likely, damning) this sort of thing. Publish and be damned. If they label it as "fanfic", screw 'em.

Well, I've been thinking about writing up a semi-official "backstory" for quite some time, and I've had some of the same misgivings I'm seeing here.

I've been writing quite a while, but I hesitate to put out work that a) Won't be used or b) be poo-poohed as "fanfic" and not used. If there were more depth to the factional backgrounds, or that of TRI, even, I wouldn't hesitate. As it is, it's so incredibly vague a canvas, that I sincerely hesitate just due to the massive complexity it would entail.

I love world building, but I know how labor-intensive it is. I'm thinking of doing a shortened version just for squad purposes, and sumbit it to Themis/ND and see if they like it. I don't know what kind of writing staff they have for some of this, and if they'd let us do it, I'd love to help them. But it all hangs on whether they *want the help* or not. From what I've seen, the answer would be "no".

I used to write quite a bit of RP material in short story form, and submit it to Themis, but all they've ever told me, when I do, is "that's cool! write more!" I get a little feedback, but only in a "fanfic" sort of way. *sigh*

If you’re awake and sane, this will probably read like a bunch of gibberish. If you’re dead tired and lack caffeine, this might even make sense:

How does TRI government work, generally? You may notice there are lots of Bureaus and ministries, all of them TRI. Not many faction ministries, are there? We featured the Oct Defense Ministry, the Sol Corporate Board or the Quant High Council of Hamalzah every now and then in the news, but mostly it is TRI doing all the work in space.

Imagine if you will a slightly different version of the German government. In Germany, there are communes and cities governed by parties, then there are states (Bavaria, Sachsen, etc…) which may be governed by a completely different party, and then there’s the country, which may be governed by a third party or a coalition of parties. While the big ass country government may dictate global laws and regulations and employs ministries and committees, many things are left to states and cities. For example, the education system is in the hands of the states that can set their own specifications (which is why southern schools are much tougher than northern ones).

If you put that on the TRI galaxy, you have a galaxy-wide government with ministries and offices, dictating laws in space and governing the coalition of the three factions, the factions themselves are governed by their representatives, be it Tahir, Emperor or Prime Minister. The factions more or less govern themselves internally except in issues that concern TRI.

So if you ask how far the power of Sarath V, head of TRI, extends, I’d be inclined to say that technically he is the head honcho of regulated space and all planets and stations within. His position is not one of a mere representative president more that of the German Chancellor. All space that is considered “regulated” is under his jurisdiction. As for the planets and factions themselves, Sarath most likely cannot set opening hours for bars on Kapenja or gun restrictions on Ares Prime.

oic. I didn't think of that...I was thinking more along the lines of foreign heads of state answering to a "world government" (or EEC to take your analogy further)
GMIskander wrote:
Muffy asked me to post here. His question was: "How far does Sarath V's power extend beyond the 9 planets and the sectors adjacent jumpgates?"

---

If you’re awake and sane, this will probably read like a bunch of gibberish. If you’re dead tired and lack caffeine, this might even make sense:

How does TRI government work, generally? You may notice there are lots of Bureaus and ministries, all of them TRI. Not many faction ministries, are there? We featured the Oct Defense Ministry, the Sol Corporate Board or the Quant High Council of Hamalzah every now and then in the news, but mostly it is TRI doing all the work in space.

Imagine if you will a slightly different version of the German government. In Germany, there are communes and cities governed by parties, then there are states (Bavaria, Sachsen, etc…) which may be governed by a completely different party, and then there’s the country, which may be governed by a third party or a coalition of parties. While the big ass country government may dictate global laws and regulations and employs ministries and committees, many things are left to states and cities. For example, the education system is in the hands of the states that can set their own specifications (which is why southern schools are much tougher than northern ones).

If you put that on the TRI galaxy, you have a galaxy-wide government with ministries and offices, dictating laws in space and governing the coalition of the three factions, the factions themselves are governed by their representatives, be it Tahir, Emperor or Prime Minister. The factions more or less govern themselves internally except in issues that concern TRI.

So if you ask how far the power of Sarath V, head of TRI, extends, I’d be inclined to say that technically he is the head honcho of regulated space and all planets and stations within. His position is not one of a mere representative president more that of the German Chancellor. All space that is considered “regulated” is under his jurisdiction. As for the planets and factions themselves, Sarath most likely cannot set opening hours for bars on Kapenja or gun restrictions on Ares Prime.

I hope that was understandable and sufficient.

So any factional warfare in the past would have been seen as a 'Civil War' then? I mean, we have

Then, of course, you have the Planetary Governments that in some cases are probably completely 'Balkanized'...most likely the only TRI presence would be consolute, embassy and recruiting centers, except for the "State/Federal" Capitals.

Okay, so the only way you'd get a scenario where a Factional 'Regular' military force would be seen as autonomous and powerful enough, would be a mutiny/revolt/coup attempt.

I'm assuming the complete lack of any mention of Corporate influence on the military situation is because it's Fluid? (ie. has become unstuck in a very unfunny way; what politicians call, "Dynamic" and what military folk call, "Snafu/Fubar" and what your average citizen calls, "Typical. Bloody typical"

Let's say, for the sake of argument that each of the three factional "States" can set regulations because the distances between each faction is so large that 'Capital Flight' and other ways corporations can coerce governments is cost prohibitive.

TRI "Fluid"

Octavian Corporate entities are entirely nationalized.

Quantar Corporate entities are not unlike *OOC* conventional situation...a high level of privatization, but corporate assets aren't considered "Extraterritorial" (ie. still under factional law/regulation)

Solrain Corporate entities ARE the factional regulatory body, the factional bureaucracy and the solrain military 'Regulars' might swear feilty to TRI but they all wear uniforms that would make *OOC* professional sports athletes blush. (walking adverts; get yer minds out of gutter)

Hyperial Corporate Entities are "Extraterritorial" and beyond the regulatory reach of the government. (ie. *OOC* "Shadowrun" analogy) A faction that allows it's corps to maintain paramilitary and even it's own "microgovernment" so to speak.

EU player's perspective
Depends on whether you count depriving us of weapons a corporate influence on the military situation. In the past, the companies have been happy to let us all kill each other, except when their production was involved. Hence the Hyperial Rush production battles - the Octavian government was fighting (militarily, in space) to get production facilities controller (nominally) by the Hyperial producers. The Hyperial producers were screaming bloody murder at TRI, who attempted to stop the Octavians from keeping control of some production.

HAH! Fools! No mere corporation can stand before the might of the Empire!

US server's official perspective
Courtesy of Ask the GM, response from GM archon.

<b>Question:</b> How far does Sarath V's power extend beyond the 9 planets and the sectors adjacent jumpgates?" (assumption being the TRI "universe" spans a single galaxy) - MajorFreak<br><Br>

<b>Answer:</b> Sarath V's power is perhaps best understood by analogy to that of the General Secretary of the UN. As head of the only governmental body in interstellar territory accepted as legitimate by all 5 factions, he has considerable legal power over all of regulated space. However, the fact that Sarath V, like the UN, has no standing bodies of troops to enforce his dictates sharply limits his practical power over the various factions. <br><Br>

Thanks, Cay. As you can see both servers have radically different ideas on what TRI bases it's power - realpolitik - and as long as these two sides don't start waffling (not talking about future developments; in reality, with enough official RP [arch0n say, "Iteration"] the balance of power could shift) we've got a decent base to build on.

The US server has apparent jurisdiction over anything outside of a planet's atmosphere. Now, since they have no standing army (*OOC* UN forces are "lent") they're about as effectual as a limp noodle beyond the universe JG pilots can reach. Oh, FTL travel and communication, once it gets past the prototype stage, is highly desired by every faction & corporation and SarathV's power isn't weak at all - take the 2nd GVB wars won by Quantar TRI pilots swinging the advantage - Besides, the three main factions are practically Superpowers in their own right. (*OOC* visions of cold war era)

Yeah. "Cold War Era" theme for US server...As for corporate power? see my earlier post. basically nothing's changed as far as my ideas on corporate influence for each faction, except one change, "...solrain regulars swear fealty to their faction..."

uh huh...we interrupt this program to clarify that muffy retracts the earlier thanks and replaces it with, "Thanks for doing what i asked for, now go fetch me my slippers" (maybe you should like edit your post with a disclaimer that says, "under duress" and whine and cringe about the egomaniacal tinpot dictator that muffy has always been and it's nice to see him show his true colours by pretending you actually LIKE coming here)
rofl lmao Drat!