Jay wrote on Oct 1, 2011, 11:09:It's been a while since I used realtek drivers so I don't quite recall. Go through every option available and look for words "full range." It's possible the option is unavailable or grayed out if you're using stereo connection (since full range speakers are implied at that point). Uninstalling realtek drivers completely and using Windows drivers may work too.

Yeah, I did check. I don't see it. Maybe it doesn't exist in the newer drivers or XP version. The drivers do sometime force me to uninstall the installed old one and reboot before the new one Even that didn't show it. I just don't see it. Oh well.

It's been a while since I used realtek drivers so I don't quite recall. Go through every option available and look for words "full range." It's possible the option is unavailable or grayed out if you're using stereo connection (since full range speakers are implied at that point). Uninstalling realtek drivers completely and using Windows drivers may work too.

Jay wrote on Sep 30, 2011, 22:51:I just realized that you're still using xp. I didn't have muted bass problem until I upgraded to vista. So it could be a different problem you're experiencing. Perhaps swapped center/sub channel?

padlock wrote on Sep 30, 2011, 23:09:Maybe I'm missing something here, but if using a digital connection(HDMI/Optical/Coax) why would a discrete soundcard be any better then on board? Either way, you're simply spitting out a bitstream.

I can understand why analog out might be better with a discrete soundcard, but aren't most people using digital connections now?

I don't know the whole history, but I think when they created the specs for optical/coax, 5.1 home theatre setups were rare, so these connections are only capable of stereo PCM bitstream. they can't carry too much data, so surround audio must be compressed using ac3 or dts to fit. If you have stereo setup, then great! It wouldn't matter. However, if you have surround setup, then the audio must be compressed in real-time. Most dedicated cards can do it, but most onboard can't. (if you play games that have surround audio that is - dvds already have compressed stream in form of dolby digital, dts or whatever)

edit: apparently HDMI can do surround in PCM, so that's good. Although it's still up to the drivers to decide what data gets put into which stream. If you have crappy drivers quality would suffer because the data is wrong, regardless of whether it's digital or analog.

Ant wrote on Sep 30, 2011, 22:15:Which players can do it? Does the latest Winamp, K-Lite Codec Full Pack's Media Player Classic Home Cinema (MPC-HC), etc. do? If so, then they are still weak IMO compared to my Audigy 2 ZS! And yes, I played with the driver's equalizer (EQ).

Back when I was using Realtek I used to use VLC. I can't remember for the life of me if it was a built in feature or a plugin, but there was an option to split subwoofer channel manually and specify the frequency.If you can't find such option, try enabling Dolby Surround option (in vlc) and see if it helps - if they're using recent prologic it might do the bass.

Ah, I will have to look at that. I wished you could do that with the driver instead of having to do it in each player. At least Creative's driver lets you control treble, bass, etc. RealTek doesn't do that vey well!

Ant wrote on Sep 30, 2011, 22:15:Which players can do it? Does the latest Winamp, K-Lite Codec Full Pack's Media Player Classic Home Cinema (MPC-HC), etc. do? If so, then they are still weak IMO compared to my Audigy 2 ZS! And yes, I played with the driver's equalizer (EQ).

Back when I was using Realtek I used to use VLC. I can't remember for the life of me if it was a built in feature or a plugin, but there was an option to split subwoofer channel manually and specify the frequency.If you can't find such option, try enabling Dolby Surround option (in vlc) and see if it helps - if they're using recent prologic it might do the bass.

Jay wrote on Sep 30, 2011, 22:09:Yeah, that's a big problem with Realtek chips. They're perfectly capable of outputting bass, but apparently their programmers don't know how to do LFE crossover at the driver level. If you use a media player or play games using an audio API that does it manually (Dirt2 does, I think), you'll hear perfect bass again. Of course, most games don't, because it's the kind of thing that soundcard is responsible for doing.

External soundcard might be the only option for you.

Which players can do it? Does the latest Winamp, K-Lite Codec Full Pack's Media Player Classic Home Cinema (MPC-HC), etc. do? If so, then they are still weak IMO compared to my Audigy 2 ZS! And yes, I played with the driver's equalizer (EQ).

Yeah, that's a big problem with Realtek chips. They're perfectly capable of outputting bass, but apparently their programmers don't know how to do LFE crossover at the driver level. If you use a media player or play games using an audio API that does it manually (Dirt2 does, I think), you'll hear perfect bass again. Of course, most games don't, because it's the kind of thing that soundcard is responsible for doing.

eunichron wrote on Sep 30, 2011, 19:01:... I'm still running the old Klipsch ProMedia 5.1s... I wish I could afford better, but I've had them since 2003 and they have never failed me, they aren't going anywhere any time soon.

I had my Klipsch ProMedia v2-400 for almost a decade. Great speakers even though turning its volume control knob can be static (a known issue), but its bass was awesome. Too bad its subwoofer went downhill and broke at the end of its usage time for me. I ended up with Logitech Z-2300 (2.1). Nice bass too until I started using an onboard RealTek sound has lower bass since I couldn't use my old Audigy 2 ZS anymore due to lack of PCI slots.

I used to use a SB Audigy 2 ZS. It was a decent sound card of my Logitech Z-2300 (2.1) and Klipsch ProMedia v2-400 (4.1) speakers. Since I upgraded my hardware in the end December 2010, my new motherboard did not have an extra PCI slot for it since I already sacrified two for my old HDTV tuner cards.

So now, I use the onboard RealTek sound. It has lower bass!! I haven't found any good sound cards or maybe I don't really need one? I only had Audigy 2 ZS for EAX hardware in computer games, but I don't game at all these days. Maybe 0-2 hours a week with Flash games! Also, I still use Windows XP Pro. SP3.

Funny thing is I used to think that discrete was on its way out about 5 years ago.

But suddenly Vista came out and the audio was no longer hardware accelerated. Which meant that the driver software actually mattered a lot more. Companies like Realtek made shit software and couldn't keep up. I had 3 boards with Realtek chips in them, and as of the beginning of 2010, none of them had proper driver support for Vista and 7. Channels were frequently missing, wrong frequency range was sent to speakers, none of the dsp worked as they should... The difference was very clearly audible when you switch to XP.So yeah, unless you invest in more expensive motherboards with proper onboard audio with good driver support, you'll want dedicated.

PHJF wrote on Sep 30, 2011, 18:30:PC gamers use headsets, many of which are USB. Speakers almost never enter into it. High-end headphones (which so far as I've seen are never USB) even require more juice than puny sound cards can muster, thus necessitating external amplification. Only the best of the best sound cards have hot enough outputs (or a dedicated headphone amp) for premium headphones.

What? I use a Xonar DS(PCI) in a 5.1 surround setup. The only time I use a headset is if I'm playing a MMO and I'm in a raid otherwise even then I'm using my normal speaker setup. The majority of my gaming is a 'solitary pursuit' because I deal with people all day and want to get away from my work, not to mention people.

There's no shortage of good but cheaply priced speaker setups out there. Headphones work, but they're not really all that great especially if you're hearing is sensitive.

--"For every human problem, there is a neat, simple solution; and it is always wrong." --H.L. Mencken

I've switched between my SB X-Fi and my onboard sound before and there definitely is a very noticeable difference in sound quality, even though my X-Fi is nearly 5 years old and PCI, theoretically my onboard sound should be better quality. Not to mention having a discrete card allows much more options in configuration and external bits. I'll upgrade it to a PCIe Xonar sooner or later, but as someone mentioned the biggest problem is that game developers don't seem to code for hardware sound anymore.

I'm still running the old Klipsch ProMedia 5.1s... I wish I could afford better, but I've had them since 2003 and they have never failed me, they aren't going anywhere any time soon.

There's another issue - I had a true 5.1 headset, which crammed 4 drivers into each earpiece and connected to my then audio card, a CL Audigy. It worked well, but it was a hassle. It meant 4 cables running from the back of my PC to my headset, and if I wanted to use my speakers (I'd only use the headset for gaming, speakers for Youtube/etc) I'd have to hunt out all these cables behind my desk and find which goes where to use the headset again.

Now I have a USB 5.1 headset, I plug it in to the USB hub that's on my desk and Windows changes my audio device to the headset. I remove it, Windows changes back to onboard. Much simpler, much quicker. The sound probably isn't as good as my old set up, but it's too close for me to tell the difference. Well worth the reduction in hassle!

PC gamers use headsets, many of which are USB. Speakers almost never enter into it. High-end headphones (which so far as I've seen are never USB) even require more juice than puny sound cards can muster, thus necessitating external amplification. Only the best of the best sound cards have hot enough outputs (or a dedicated headphone amp) for premium headphones.

i replaced my emu 1820m (which crapped out through no relation to me fiddling around with the card in an open case while computer was powered on, i swear) with a focusrite saffire pro 24. convertors are good, preamps are great (if you need them), windows 7 install and drivers are a breeze. you could do a whole lot worse for $250.