DAAAMN $500 /month gas bill???? What was he driving , a hummer? I pay $100 a month for gas

I know this guy Carey is an easy target for derision, but doing the math, he might not be too far off.

Carey Bailey, an electrical engineer from Cottage Grove, Ore., used to spend about $500 a month in gasoline for his 75-mile roundtrip commute.

so 20 work days times 75 miles commute (and probably a little extra for errands after work) gives 1500 miles monthly

add in probably 30 a day for weekends and that gives you 240 monthly for the weekends.

(He probably liked to go up into the mountains as well on the weekends and that would add even more miles onto his vehicle total...but i'm not going to pile on for that)

Total: 1740 miles at 15 mpg (if he was driving a large BMW, Crown Vic, pickup or jeep which is common in Cottage Grove, Oregon) and you get 116 gallons of gas. Price of gas back when he bought was around 4.25 for premium and it's conceivable he was using premium

Add it up and you get 492 dollars a month for gas

At first it seems inconceivable that gas could cost that much. That's because most of us are already driving more fuel efficient cars and not doing that many miles

I'm going to give him the benefit of the nod to acknowledge he was very well forking out a ton for gas.

So ok Volt is a great car because people don't buy gas for a long time , but uhm how states going to fix the roads if nobody buy gas anymore, i always thought highway maintenance fund comes from gas tax , how long till government or state will start charging electric car owners for highway and road use.

No I think he means the $470 saved can be put towards the car payment rather than gasoline for whatever he was driving before. I'm not sure what he was driving before, but it's probably a trade I would take too (even with zero financial savings).

That's not the way he phrased it. It's crappy math like this which is responsible for so many people getting in over their heads committing themselves to things which later on they can't afford. They say "hey this car will cost me less in fuel" but then ignore repair and maintenance costs, insurance costs, and monthly payments. He was spending $500 in fuel every month? At my rough calculation that means the Volt cost him 80 months of fuel on his old car assuming he paid $40k for the Volt. Who knows if he'll even have the Volt for 80 months at all?

obin

"We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

So ok Volt is a great car because people don't buy gas for a long time , but uhm how states going to fix the roads if nobody buy gas anymore, i always thought highway maintenance fund comes from gas tax , how long till government or state will start charging electric car owners for highway and road use.

The time frame it will take society to phase into a significant amount of EV-only use will be measured in decades me thinks (i.e. a couple-three), so don't worry. The politicians have 2-3 decades worth of "debate" and "compromise" to sort it out.

So ok Volt is a great car because people don't buy gas for a long time , but uhm how states going to fix the roads if nobody buy gas anymore, i always thought highway maintenance fund comes from gas tax , how long till government or state will start charging electric car owners for highway and road use.

You must not know how American government works. Creating new taxes has never been an issue for American government. We're experts at it.

Not to put too fine a point on the math here, but there is a rather substantial federal tax deduction that applies to the Volt. (something on the order of 7,500 dollars from what I remember)
And I believe that Oregon also gives a tax benefit for Volt purchase.

So to say that it's a $40,000 car cost to the buyer isn't quite accurate.

Needless to say, someone who doesn't have a pretty good income shouldn't be contemplating buying a car like this and thinking they are going to save money. ROI isn't the reason most of these buyers are entering into this.

Originally Posted by TheBurninator

Wheel gap is like women, the more fingers you can fit the worse off you are

So in 2008, he spent $24,000 installing 3.5 kw worth of solar panels on his home, which was more than enough to offset his former $250 a month electric bill. Before he bought these rechargeable cars, he had accrued a $438 credit with the utility.

In anticipation of buying his electric cars last December, he added another 1.4 kw solar installation to his house (costing $8,000) to offset the energy use to charge them.

“I wasn't trying to wreck him, I just wanted to rattle his cage.”... Dale Earnhardt

Originally Posted by porridgehead

It's all about the tires. I drove my M3 in the snow. With the summer tires on, it was the safest car in the world in the snow. In fact, it was a statue. You could not make it move with half an inch of snow on the ground.

My hat's off to the early adopters like this. While it may be wildly expensive compared to what the average working (or unemployed) American can afford, it shows that today it is possible. Anything that is possible today, can be done more inexpensively tomorrow. It starts with at least being possible so you've got somewhere to start from. I'm actually quite excited for our electric future, especially one where we can do like this guy did and choose how much power we want to produce on our own, without even relying on the power company.

He's certainly got the money to go full bore on this. Not for everyone obviously, but certainly trailblazing.

George Parrott thinks he’s one of the first three people in the country to own both a Chevrolet Volt and a Nissan Leaf. The semi-retired psychology professor from West Sacramento, Calif., traded in his Toyota Camry Hybrid and Prius for a Volt and a Leaf as soon as the cars went on sale.

Like many Californians, Parrott is committed to cleaning the air. As a marathon runner for 30 years, he says he’s felt the effects of air pollution in the state.

So in 2008, he spent $24,000 installing 3.5 kw worth of solar panels on his home, which was more than enough to offset his former $250 a month electric bill. Before he bought these rechargeable cars, he had accrued a $438 credit with the utility.

In anticipation of buying his electric cars last December, he added another 1.4 kw solar installation to his house (costing $8,000) to offset the energy use to charge them.

At that, he figures he’s using very little gasoline (in the Volt), and no net electricity off the grid. Based on his usage, he estimates the payback time for the total solar installation (not counting his solar hot-water heater) at about eight years.

But things aren’t as simple. For starters, Parrott’s credit with the electric company just accumulates, they never pay it out. Second, he’s not completely off the grid. Solar panels only generate electricity in the daytime-not at night when he needs it to run the lights in the house-and to charge up his cars. So he’s selling electricity to the utility during the day, and buying it back at night.

That’s a great deal for Parrott, because under California’s time-of-use electric rate plans, he’s selling the energy to the utility at peak prices of 29 cents per kilowatt hour. And with the cars’ programmable charging, he sets them to start charging after 12:05 a.m., when rates for the power he buys back from the utility drops to 5.5 cents per kilowatt hour in the winter. That’s less than half the national average rate of 11 cents per kilowatt hour. (In the summer, it rises to 6.5 cents. His rates include generation only, not transmission. He pays a flat $13 a month in transmission costs.)

Unlike our experience with the Leaf and the Volt at our test track in a frigid Connecticut winter, Parrot reports getting about 4 miles per kilowatt hour in his Leaf and about 3.5 miles per kilowatt hour in his Volt, when it’s running on electricity in sunny California. (Cold temperatures dramatically affect the efficiency of electric cars. We got about 3 miles per kwh in a Leaf we borrowed from Nissan and about 2 miles out of our Volt. We’re still testing the Volt, however, as temperatures rise. And we’re expecting delivery of our own Leaf in the next few days.)

After the $7,500 federal, and $5,000 CA state and local incentives, he leased the Leaf based on a $21,000 cap cost--about the same price as a base Prius. The Volt lease deal was based o $37,000, after a $7,500 tax credit. He also got a free Level 2 (240-volt) charger through a government grant when he bought the Volt. Now he uses that charger to charge his Leaf, which has a bigger battery pack, and charges the Volt off a standard 110-volt outlet.

To take advantage of the low electricity rates, both cars have only seven hours to charge; In our experience, that time wouldn’t yield a full charge in either car with those chargers. But Parrott claims he has been getting 37 to 41 miles of electric range in the Volt, and that with his wife’s commute to nearby Davis, Calif., that the indicated remaining range in the Leaf has never dropped below 28 miles. Mirroring our experience with the Leaf, he says the indicated range is seldom accurate.

Parrott has driven his Volt 3,000 miles total and logged about 1,600 miles in the Leaf. Calculating the amount he’s paying for electricity, that works out to fuel costs of about 1.4 cents a mile for the Leaf, or about 1/10th the cost of gas for a 30-mpg car such as the Toyota Corolla. The Volt costs him about 1.6 cents a mile on electricity alone. In addition, he says he has spent about $120 on 30 gallons of premium gas for the Volt.

So while our initial findings indicate that the Volt and the Leaf won’t pay off for most consumers at this point, Parrott’s case demonstrates that for some early adopters, the cars can make a meaningful contribution to the cause of cleaning the air and reducing oil dependence. With expensive solar conversion, the pay off will take years.

“Air quality is such a serious issue,” Parrott says. “I think that those of us who can afford it are compelled to do something.” And with his garage, he’s done just that.

Originally Posted by Barry2952

I dragged her back to see the $4,500 Pacer. She hated it, but we bought it. She went home and cried. (when we sold it) my wife put an ad in the newspaper. A woman came out to look at the car. She said, "I really didn't go out looking for a Pacer." My wife replied, "Lady, nobody goes out looking for a Pacer. It's eighteen hundred bucks, take it or leave it!" The woman took it and drove away smiling. My wife cried.

He also was getting rather poor mileage on previous car and his monthly gas bill was very high

Brent Waldrep

How long have you had your Volt?
Almost 4 months now. I picked our Volt up on June 3rd, after placing a deposit down on it at Bill Fox Chevy in Rochester Hills, MI in August of 2010.

What's your lifetime MPG?
I'm currently at a lifetime 653 MPG, with almost 5,000 miles on the car.

What's your lifetime MPG?
I'm currently at a lifetime 653 MPG, with almost 5,000 miles on the car.

What is your daily commute like (how far, side roads or freeways, etc.)?
I really don't have a standard commute as most people do. I work full time out of my home, while taking care of my 3 year old son. So during the day, I typically just run some errands, and take my son to and from pre-school. In the evenings and overnight, I work part time as a paid on call firefighter for the city of Auburn Hills, so at any given moment I could get a page and be called out to assist with a structure fire, or a medical call. We are also the city’s EMS provider.On a daily basis, I would say my errands, and taking my son to school is 15-30 miles/day, mostly all local roads. As for responding to the Fire station, that is a round trip of about 6 miles. I may make this trip once a day, 3 times a day, 5 times, etc. I may also go a day without being called in, so it varies.Up until a few weeks ago, I was driving 80-100 miles a day 2 days a week. Between normal errands, my sons summer class, and an evening class of my own about 30 miles away from home. If the weather was just right and I planned ahead, I would be 100% electric. Using public charging stations throughout the day, and if not, the gas generator is there for me.
I should also mention, before getting the Volt in June, I was driving a 2002 Jeep Liberty, which got about 15 MPG. In May I spent over $400 in gas. In June, driving the same amount, I spent under $40 in electricity (using 120v, prior to my 240v Voltec charger being installed, and turned on July 1st) because I don't have a standard commute, that puts me in a different situation from most Volt users who would have a 9-5 job where they know they have a set number of miles to drive each day, and can then plan on charging their Volt overnight. Because of that, I was very happy I qualified for my utility company, DTE's PEV program, I was able to get on their flat rate program, where I pay a flat rate of $40/month, no matter how much I charge, and no matter what time of day I charge. That helps a lot, allowing me to charge during the day without worrying about the higher cost of electricity.[/B]. In June, driving the same amount, I spent under $40 in electricity (using 120v, prior to my 240v Voltec charger being installed, and turned on July 1st) because I don't have a standard commute, that puts me in a different situation from most Volt users who would have a 9-5 job where they know they have a set number of miles to drive each day, and can then plan on charging their Volt overnight. Because of that, I was very happy I qualified for my utility company, DTE's PEV program, I was able to get on their flat rate program, where I pay a flat rate of $40/month, no matter how much I charge, and no matter what time of day I charge. That helps a lot, allowing me to charge during the day without worrying about the higher cost of electricity.

Last edited by Bazooka; 10-18-2011 at 06:59 PM.

Originally Posted by mitch hedberg

My manager was concerned, he said "Mitch, don't use liquor as a crutch." I can't use liquor as a crutch... because a crutch helps me walk. Liquor severely screws up the way I walk.

I have just started seeing these locally for the first time, and our little Chevrolet dealership in Stuart just got it's first one. I am curious to see if sales start picking up now as I seem to see a transport full of them on the interstate every couple of days now for the last week or two.

So in 2008, he spent $24,000 installing 3.5 kw worth of solar panels on his home, which was more than enough to offset his former $250 a month electric bill. Before he bought these rechargeable cars, he had accrued a $438 credit with the utility.

In anticipation of buying his electric cars last December, he added another 1.4 kw solar installation to his house (costing $8,000) to offset the energy use to charge them.

But things aren’t as simple. For starters, Parrott’s credit with the electric company just accumulates, they never pay it out. Second, he’s not completely off the grid. Solar panels only generate electricity in the daytime-not at night when he needs it to run the lights in the house-and to charge up his cars. So he’s selling electricity to the utility during the day, and buying it back at night.

Okay now in all seriousness someone help me figure this out here. I was honest looking at basic solar electricity grid to power our house. What I came across was that it would cost about $20,000 in solar electricity to power our house. Our monthly electric bill is about $175 or so. My math says that $20,000 divided by $175 a month = 114 months in order to pay off the solar array assuming NO problems with the system. That means that after 9 and a half years the solar system would break even and I'd be getting free electricity from then on.

So, how is it that this guy is "saving" any money by installing $32,000 worth of power generation facilities at his house? I mean I know he's selling electricity back to the utility company but he's powering his cars and his house off of a $32,000 investment. Something is not clicking here.

Please someone help me figure this out. I mean I'm genuinely interested in adding solar power in the future but EVERYTHING I've read says that it will take me about 10 years for the system to break even. In the meantime the solar power still isn't maintenance free and you are still subject to damage from storms and natural disasters.

When you add it up altogether did this guy basically pay $37,000 for a car + $8,000 in power generation in order to save 14 cents a mile? That means he will have to drive his electric cars ~321,000 miles in order to get back to where he was financially before he bought the electric cars. Or am I missing something here? Does my math suck and am I forgetting something?

obin

"We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

When you add it up altogether did this guy basically pay $37,000 for a car + $8,000 in power generation in order to save 14 cents a mile? That means he will have to drive his electric cars ~321,000 miles in order to get back to where he was financially before he bought the electric cars. Or am I missing something here? Does my math suck and am I forgetting something?

obin

You are forgetting the huge pile of street cred he gets at the hypermiling club, but otherwise yeah. People have payed more for nothing before.

Maybe he's in one of those areas where electricity during daytime hours is at a premium?

Not maybe...

He is in one of those areas

that is exactly what the article sez

pulling from the text

So he’s selling electricity to the utility during the day, and buying it back at night.

That’s a great deal for Parrott, because under California’s time-of-use electric rate plans, he’s selling the energy to the utility at peak prices of 29 cents per kilowatt hour. And with the cars’ programmable charging, he sets them to start charging after 12:05 a.m., when rates for the power he buys back from the utility drops to 5.5 cents per kilowatt hour in the winter.

Originally Posted by wantacad

hey now, unbolting the rear bumper, dropping the beam and gas tank to change out an exhaust hanger is perfectly normal.

His entire array is generating a whopping 4.9 kilowatts of power and that's assuming that his house is drawing ZERO current at that time. He still has to use power to run his fridge, water pumps, heaters, fans, or whatever the else is at his house. I still think that it's going to take a LONG time for that $32,000 he spent to break even. Could he afford to do this anywhere else in the country?

obin

"We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

His entire array is generating a whopping 4.9 kilowatts of power and that's assuming that his house is drawing ZERO current at that time. He still has to use power to run his fridge, water pumps, heaters, fans, or whatever the else is at his house. I still think that it's going to take a LONG time for that $32,000 he spent to break even. Could he afford to do this anywhere else in the country?

obin

Obin:

Appreciate your careful look at everything. It's what anyone venturing into such uncharted territory should do.

And, a cursory look at the Parrott situation in california seems to indicate a resounding no for anywhere else in the country for such an expenditure.

Of course, his situation is unique and favorable in some respects (plus he values the effort he took)

So the 29 cents/kw daytime puts him in a special class of consumer and he went for it.

Best use of his money?... eh... he gets to play with this and see what he can make of it.

And I guess that is the true freedom an experimenter has if they can cough up the bucks.

It appears that something other than financials and ROI are leading the sales here for the Volt.

(love the comment about street cred above )

So the early adopters are wanting to do something different and they have the bucks to vote with their wallet.

following the OP's lead.

another volt owner

Kory Levoy

He says he used to spend up to $200 a month filling up his Audi TT, but ever since he has bought the Volt, he has filled up only three times in 7500-miles of driving.

Levoy uses his 240-volt home charger to energize the car overnight, and also charges his car at work using the portable 120-volt charger. Since his total daily commute is only 50-miles, he has more than enough battery power to make the round trip.

"In California, residential and commercial customers receive rebates through the California Solar Initiative (CSI) program and, through 2016, a 30% federal tax credit. Depending on the cost of the system and other site-specific variables, these incentives can typically cover over 40% of the cost of a commercial or residential solar system. "