No More Fanservice Games Apart From Senran Kagura, Says Xseed

In the wake of games like Valhalla Knights 3 and Senran Kagura, Xseed have developed a bit a reputation for being a publisher of “fanservice” games. Over on their Facebook page, a user asked what other fanservice titles the company plans to license.

“None,” an Xseed representative replied. “Senran Kagura is special because it’s by our parent company and made by a most excellent producer.”

Xseed is a subsidiary of Marvelous, who publish the Senran Kagura games in Japan. The series is produced by Kenichiro Takaki, who was previously known for his work on Half-Minute Hero, and is developed by Tamsoft.

Your definition of “fanservice” may vary, but judging by Xseed’s comment, it seems like at the very least, Xseed will not be pursuing other fanservice titles quite as blatant as Senran Kagura in the future, outside of that series itself.

Update: The following is a comment by Xseed localization specialist Tom Lipschultz, made in our comments section:

The idea behind that response, I believe, is that we’re not going to be pursuing any titles based solely on the existence of “naughty” fanservice within them. But that’s not new: even Senran Kagura is a series we were thrilled to work on because it has great gameplay, well-developed characters and a fairly deep mythos behind it. In short, the Senran Kagura titles are fantastic games. The fanservice within them is just icing on the cake. ;)

In short, that quote doesn’t mean we’re never going to release another game containing fanservice again. Really, it just means we don’t plan on pursuing games for their fanservice content alone — and that’s always been the case.

I can guarantee you if anyone buys Akiba’s Trip with the intent of getting off on it, they will be disappointed. Nothing about it is sexy — just silly, and irreverent, and hilarious, and coy. ;)

Shippoyasha

I think it’s sexy too though. But fanservice is part of the package and it wouldn’t be right without the sexy aspects IMO.

古戸ヱリカ

I’m assuming they meant games that haven’t been announced yet. That, or they hate pants so badly, they consider the destruction of such things to be a service to all, not just fans.

katzedan

ohh Xseed, and I was really hoping that you would be the one to release the localized version of Bullet Girls. :(

well, hope they can change their mind someday

Ryudo9

Ys is a Fanservice to me and know they will keep releasing those so I’m happy.

Based Ignacio Puppo

Amen! I understand that there is actually a public for this kind of games, but I, which means this is MY opinion, always found them dumb, if I wanted softcore porn I might as well just find porn on the net, much faster.
Hopefully XSeed can now get cracking on some games with some real meat behind them.

Mc-kun

Softcore porn does not equal porn! DxD is softcore (or anything ecchi) along with HOTD while something like Boku no pico is hardcore porn.

Rentekabond

That’s what he said. He’s saying that he doesn’t see the point in going the softcore route (either buying it based on that or selling it based on that) when you could just as easily do regular porn.

Which I completely agree with. you can do what you want, but I personally don’t like playing a game or watching a show that constantly teases me with half-chubs and awkward shifting.

landlock

Imagination can be alot better then seeing the real thing.

Based Ignacio Puppo

THis, what he said. When I was younger I did like fanservicey series and games(Hey, we all went through that period when our hormones went bonkers), but as of now, I dislike it altogether. Especially when it comes to games or series that try to take themselves seriously… and then have gals wearing glorified bikinis, or having constant panty shots or what have you.
But that’s just me, and my taste. If you like fanservice, that’s alright, but it’s always gonna be a turn off when it comes to what I want to play, which is why I’m glad that XSeed will go back to more meaty stuff.

Zens

You need to read what Xseed actually said.

Based Ignacio Puppo

“Really, it just means we don’t plan on pursuing games for their fanservice content alone — and that’s always been the case.”

Zens

There you go, you totally compared SK with softcore porn.

Shippoyasha

Oh nice. The good old ‘I grew out of it’ quip.

Besides, Xseed hasn’t stopped porting all the other titles. This is not a zero sum game. It’s so easy for people to throw fanservice games under the bus.

Based Ignacio Puppo

Alright, I did come off as a douche, although I didn’t intend to. I meant to say that I did too, at one point, like that type of media, so I can understand people liking it, but I just don’t at this time, so this, to me is good news.
If it’s worth anything, I still enjoy tokusatsu shows, which are usually aimed at children.

Death Metal

Why do you people think that “less of what you don’t like” always means “more of what you like”? The former just means “less of what you don’t like for people that like it” and that’s it. Less fanservice is no guarantee whatsoever that you’ll be getting “quality” stuff without it.

NeetTentaclesRiot

Softcore porn is porn otherwise it wouldn’t be considered “softcore PORN”. Softcore porn is like a sex scene in a movie with genitalia hidden. Now imagine a video dedicated to just these type of scenes. That is what defines a softcore porn movie.

Death Metal

THANK YOU, somebody else gets it. I get so fucking tired of seeing DOA5 endlessly compared to softcore porn by the stupid prudish just because of panties and bouncing boobs. Fucking children don’t even know what they’re talking about.

katzedan

And we can’t forget that the story behind all the ecchi of DxD is really good if we compare it to a lot of other series. Sometimes better than these shows without ecchi or fanservices!

But well, a lot of people still hides themselves behind the “if it has fanservice/ecchi it’s a crap show/game” just to feel “superior” on people who like them!

Based Ignacio Puppo

Yes, my analogy wasn’t the best, but my point was that I could easily find “sexy pictures” online instead of paying for a game focused just on that xD

Mc-kun

With the game you can easily look at sexy pictures without anyone knowing. Computer is kind of risky due to parents, government and what not.

Wow this makes me sound like a pervert.

DesmaX

A casual pervert, to be exact.

I mean, c’mon, just use incognito mode. The government will never track you down.

buddyluv324

You do know there IS a difference between softcore and full on porn right?

This comment is really off base. Just because a game has fanservice doesn’t mean that those who enjoy fanservice would automatically go out and buy it just for the fanservice. Fanservice is an added bonus for some people not the deciding factor on whether or not they buy a game.

Based Ignacio Puppo

Are you tellling me that people actually bought that “Cooking” Senran Kagura game wasn’t for fanservice? Are you really telling me that after watching Senran Kagura’s gameplay, if it didn’t have fanservice, you’d buy it? I wouldn’t, sure, I haven’t played them, maybe they are fantastic, but neither did people before buying it. Fanservice was ALWAYS the main selling point of the franchise.
But as I said, it’s MY opinion, I don’t like fanservicey games, especially on games that try to be serious(Xenosaga 1 for example, took itself so seriously… only to have a panty shot of MOMO in the next scene, it was totally off putting).

wyrdwad

Fanservice is the device through which a player’s interest is initially piqued on those games, sure. But if they weren’t great games with great characters, that interest would die off pretty quickly.

In other words, it may be the fanservice that got people to take notice of Senran Kagura, but it’s everything ELSE that kept people coming back for more. In this age of internet porn, fanservice alone isn’t going to sell games. Not reliably or consistently, anyway.

…That includes the cooking game, Senran Kagura Bon Appetit. I can honestly tell you that even if I weren’t working for the company releasing that game, I’d still be interested in it — not for the fanservice, but because it’s a good, simple rhythm game with a good sense of humor to it. And I am a sucker both for good rhythm games and for a nice tongue-in-cheek romp.

If you don’t like rhythm games but like fanservice would you still buy Dekamori, probably not no. Look I like fanservice but just because a game is full of it doesn’t mean I want it. You could fill a fighting game or a first person dungeon crawler with fanservice but I probably wouldn’t be interested in either because those genres don’t appeal to me. Give me a brawler, rhythm game, or another genre I like with fun gameplay + fanservice and you’ve got my attention. But I would totally still buy Senran Kagura even with lessened fanservice because the combat in the games is a lot of fun and the characters are quirky, generally light hearted, and funny.

Herok♞

The comments in the recent criminal girls article say otherwise with the talk of boycotts because of censorship

To me that’s more people angry about the topic of censorship itself than the fanservice. Those same people would be angry if violence, language, or plot themes were censored. I’ll still buy Criminal Girls censored just like I bought Monpiece censored and I would consider Monpiece to be very well worth the purchase regardless of the censorship.

Herok♞

The thing is you said fanservice isn’t the deciding factor in weather or not they will buy the game but for the vocal minority it is. I also plan on buying game as well since I don’t care if its censored or not but it seems alot of people don’t feel that way

Shippoyasha

If you don’t like it, that is fine. But don’t cheer for the total elimination of them. Not all games have to cater to you. Besides, truly fanservicey games are not even the majority.

Altin

As long as they don’t suffer a severe case of censor-itis like NISA, fine by me.

There is a difference between not bothering localizing fanservice games and localizing them and then censoring them because they know they will make money anyway.

Altin

Let me rephrase your statement:
“There is a difference between not bothering localizing fanservice games and localizing them and then censoring them, removing essential content, in other words, its own definition (i.e. fanservice to begin with) with the hope to make some money.”
I hope that your last part is sarcastic because there is no point in offering a game, which has been cut off of its most vital selling point. That’s like expecting to eat a steak, just to realize that you didnt even get the steak in the first place. Not to mention that the fanbase for fanservice games is extremely nitpicky when it boils down to content that is either added or removed. Why bother localizing a fanservice game, if you are not going to offer the players the fanservice to begin with? It’s as many people on the NISA forums said too:”You either do it right, or just dont bother working on it at all.” Sure, Criminal Girls will sell some units, but by removing its most vital selling point, it will most likely sell less than imagined. Altering dialogue to make themes and conversations more sensible for western audiences is one thing, removing content that defines said game’s genre altogether is something else.

Where in my comment did I say censoring was okay? I was just pointing out the difference between them is all. I know that most people do not like censoring and I know it defeats, most of if not all the purpose of the game that does come over.

Altin

Then I misinterpreted your previous statement on that point. Sorry for that. I thought that with your last point in which you claimed “because they know they will make money anyway”, it came off as if it wouldnt matter whether they’d censor it or not, since they’d earn some quick bucks out of it, despite alienating their core audience. I guess I initially thought that it wouldn’t matter to you either.

specs10

I understand that they would want to protect their reputation for publishing high quality games, but I just hope they keep their options open. I don’t see why fanservice alone should be a reason to skip over a title.

wyrdwad

It’s not. See my comment below.

Epic Markell Joshua

._. well that kinda sucks.

Thatguy

I know that feeling.

TiamatNM

I think it just means they don’t have any plans at this time for any specific “fanservice” titles. I’m sure they will pick up more fanservicy games in the future.

wyrdwad

The idea behind that response, I believe, is that we’re not going to be pursuing any titles based solely on the existence of “naughty” fanservice within them. But that’s not new: even Senran Kagura is a series we were thrilled to work on because it has great gameplay, well-developed characters and a fairly deep mythos behind it. In short, the Senran Kagura titles are fantastic games. The fanservice within them is just icing on the cake. ;)

In short, that quote doesn’t mean we’re never going to release another game containing fanservice again. Really, it just means we don’t plan on pursuing games for their fanservice content alone — and that’s always been the case.

Thanks for the added commentary. I’m stickying this comment so people will see it when they scroll down to the comments section.

Edit: On second thought, I’ve added it to the post itself. Thanks, Tom.

otakumike

Sounds good to me, you guys keep on truckin. I’ll keep supporting with my wallet. :)

AwayFromKeyboard

Hopefully that’s what it means because it’s a slippery slope if they decide not to localize anything just because of “fanservice”

Doug Joseph

I love anything Xseed does, fanservice or not. The writing is just so good! I finally broke down and bought a 3DS this summer just for Xseed’s current and future titles (Story of Seasons among them).

Bob Slim

Good to know

PreyMantis

Ah, cool. I guess you’ll still be keeping my John busy with my slowly dying wallet.

prinnywin

Hey, Tom. My respect for XSEED has only gone up during this fiasco. You guys aren’t just gutsy, but you pick the dangerous games not just because of the fanservice, but because of its gameplay as well.
You guys are telling the world that there is a place for many different games, even ones with fanservice, as long as the game isn’t JUST that.

There a few titles that I hope you guys would eventually pick up, since I can think of no other that would. One such title is Seisou no Amazones. Like SK, it’s filled with fanservice, but pass that, there’s a fun dungeon crawler RPG with some of the most beautiful visuals seen on a 3DS. It also has puzzle solving aspects in its dungeons.

The increased popularity of dungeon crawler RPGs due to Persona, SMT, and EO would really help the game’s audience as well.

British_Otaku

Makes sense to me, Senran Kagura was always lucky to be connected to Xseed through Marvelous.

These guys have been consistently great with Senran Kagura but shy away from other titles which are anime license or niche. Based as they are, they have their limits.

Shippoyasha

I would rather have Xseed port risque or anime titles than them being at the mercy of other companies though. Xseed is the only one fully committed to uncensored titles. That matters a lot for purists.

DesmaX

The company isn’t comitted, only their PR Manager.

That helps, but if they’ll need to censor a game, they will

Shippoyasha

I just hope more localization companies don’t see the ‘need’ to. But damn it, I wish the AO rating isn’t the kiss of death. It’s pretty much chilling effects censorship. I hear ESRB censored some Senran Kagura trailers and marketing as well.

British_Otaku

Sure, I would definitely love to see them hook me up with Toushintoshi, E.X. Troopers, Attack on Titan, Beyond the Labyrinth even I imported the first three.

Given that they don’t have the best relationship with nor are they a branch of Alicesoft/Image Epoch, Capcom. Spike Chunsoft and Konami. That immediately makes it harder to negotiate rights, before we get into how competitive licensed games can be (I wouldn’t be surprised if the only reason why Attack on Titan hasn’t been localised is this – it is the most popular thing since sliced bread).

I want them to do more stuff which is outside of their comfort zone, but it is understandable why they don’t approach other projects.

This game actually looks pretty fun! I just wish that the maximum boobage was toned down lol.

DesmaX

I’m glad

Shippoyasha

I am not.

Blackburn7

Good news to me since I’m not into fanservice games. I’d love to see more Legend of Heroes games being localized instead.

aizen310

More precisely, the Kiseki games.
If nothing else, translating Sen no Kiseki might wake some interest for the series, considering it’s relatively new and it’s for the PS3. I hope Xseed will pull a ToXillia on that one.

I-e-on

Well they’ll have to do all of the other games before sen since the timeline is very important in kiseki

neo_firenze

If timeline is so important, keep Carpe Fulgur working on Sora no Kiseki 3rd after they finish up SC. Have the main Xseed team simultaneously work on the Vita version of Zero so they can release it shortly after the Trails trilogy is out (as opposed to waiting for 3rd to release then starting on Zero and taking years to finish it). That’s one option…

Perhaps wishful thinking, and I get that Xseed is a small operation with only so much in the way of resources, but it’s sad to see the disappointing prospects of actually getting games in a wonderful franchise getting regular Japanese releases.

Although it’s not ideal, if they had to skip 3rd I could live with that if it meant allocating resources to actually getting the newer arcs (all of which are on current systems!) released. I’d much rather actually get the games even if it meant missing a chunk of story (maybe filled in as best they could with a big picture summary of the events of 3rd), as opposed to getting nothing at all.

Besides, it’s not like we’re getting the “whole story” anyway when we are getting games without an ending and no commitment to follow through on the trilogy…

DesmaX

Eh, the script size is just the core of the problem. There’s other variables that come with it

One thing that also needs to be considered is selling the game. SpaceDrake (I think) said one day that this series is the AAA of japanese localizations, so it needs to sell a lot more than you usual niche japanese.

Aaaand, with the Vita dead in the west and the PS3 soon to follow (People should be starting migrating to the newer consoles by the next year, when it starts getting games), I don’t think it would work out.

The only hope I see for the series is on PC’s, since games can be always relevant, despite the hardware the player is using (If he’s using Windows, of course)

I-e-on

Xseed never said they wouldnt do the 3rd. And if they didnt it doesnt matter too much to the story because sora kiseki ends with the 2nd. The 3rd is a sort of dungeon crawler that goes more into the side characters back stories.

Wtv

It does matter if you like the series. You will want to play more. Even more now that traditional turn based JRPG is so rare.

Still didn’t play the first game, but I bought it. Will be a little masochist and play it sometime so that I can never play another game like it ever again.

I-e-on

I meant it wouldn’t be important to the story. But yeah it would really suck if the 3rd never came over

aizen310

Considering how long TiTS:SC being in localization hell, they should skip some titles and work on recent ones instead keeping a long backlog.

Xseed did this with Ys. Oath in Felghana, Ys 6 PC and YsO localizations came after Ys Seven. And we yet to have a localized Ys 5. If they can find time, they can always go back to previous titles.

hey if it has great gameplay and “well developed” characters it might have a chance

persona_yuji

I’m down for some magnificent PLOT!

Wtv

Bullet Girls looks too generic however. People understime these kind of games, thinking that’s the only thing that matters to sell. Yeah, a lot of people will buy for only that, but another won’t.

Senran Kagura has original character design, solid enough characters (it’s not original, but think about it…it never is. It’s good enough for you to care about them, though), and over the top action.

Bullet Girls seems to have clothes damage, panty-shot and groping girls. I could be wrong, but that’s not what the trailers shows. Even the action looks too common.

I think it will come to west eventually because these kind of games are growing here anyway…but won’t be a hit like SK.

Shippoyasha

I don’t expect Bullet Girls to make it, but I don’t see the harm in pure fanservice games either. It’s a very niche type of game in the broader gaming landscape. I can see digital releases working well with more risque games though I still prefer physical releases if at all possible. Until then, there’s always imports.

Wtv

Yeah, it’s not harmful, but it will never be as popular. Just like Nukiges are never as popular as more serious eroges. And since that’s the case, import would really be a option.

I mean, I will not enter into detail, but I did experiment a pure fanservice japanese-only game some time ago. And every spoken phrase was something I had listened a lot already in animes, so I didn’t even need the translation.

I dropped the thing anyway.

Shippoyasha

I just wish niche titles had more of an avenue that’s all. I hope PC gaming can help that, though I want more games on a handheld without breaking the bank with imports like I already do.

CirnoTheStrongest

Unfortunate, but it’s not that hard to import (which I will do eventually)

Renaldi Saputra

D3 publisher, IIRC is Bamco’s team…
so, zettai ni muri da

Fire.fire.kun

To give credit where credit is due, Xseed didn’t seek out Senran Kagura, they finally announced it after so many fans kept hounding them as they remained hesitant.

I never expect them to seek games solely on fanservice, but this at least shows they are listening when it comes to game suggestions even for controversial titles.

lel

B-but Xseed!

Death Metal

Aksys also publishes some japanese stuff from time to time, but I suppose they don’t pick the very niche games like Bullet Girls or To Love Ru Darkness. :(

The whole point of Criminal Girls is that you are forced to be the warden of hell. It is your job to rehabilitate the criminal girls by punishing them when they misbehave.

Punishing the characters is point of the game. If you censor that, you ruin the game!

Edgar Nieves

Don’t worry man. we all want to punish criminal girls. Its not are fault some can’t tell the difference between reality and fantasy. And taking the punishment takes away the point of the game since that is its selling point and the game isn’t that good of an rpg to begin with.

Now…

Kornelious

That’s fine by me! Senran Kagura is plenty of fanservice on it’s own <3

Not to mention all the other companies fanservice games :D

Heriel

It makes sense, sexual fanservice never sells

Shippoyasha

Oh now this argument again…

Niche games people. Niche games with a niche market. That should be okay too.

DesmaX

The niche game still needs to sell, tho

Shippoyasha

Yeah. And some fanservicey stuff does sell enough to justify the niche being there. Though a lot of them are anime/manga tieins and usually are doomed to be low budget.

DesmaX

… I guess, but it would be way too low budget. And even with that, it stills needs to be a good game for the eyes of thouse buying (Like Demon Gaze; fan-service game, but also a solid Dungeon Crawler)

Heriel

with the raising production cost, it´s not ok.

Shippoyasha

People making niche games have made niche games for a good 20 years. Marvelous has been a mid level house for that long. NIS, Gust, Compile Heart and many others are not keeping everyone down. They are doing what they have always done.

We are not talking about Konami or Capcom suddenly making niche games here. Though they have retreated to stuff like Mobile these days.

Heriel

that´s because they make good games with some fanservice, not “fanservice games”, fanservice alone cant stand on his own & once these companies start to grow, they will have to eliminate it, just like NISA with criminal girls.

Landale

Alright, before this goes any farther; Both of you, drop it or move back toward the topic at hand. This is moving well beyond Xseed and fanservice games, and starting to pointlessly drag up other games and companies. If you want to talk about NISA and Criminal Girls, there’s already a discussion on it in the appropriate article.

Shippoyasha

As I see it, the fact that they are small developers means they are svelte enough to survive in a market where extreme costs of making a game is killing the bigger companies out of existence.

Yay! Don’t end up like the nichey Japanese publishers who peddle this stuff to their small otaku fanbase in the first place. Keep looking for great games with broader appeal. More Last Story, Ys, Corpse Party, Ragnarok Odyssey and Pandora’s Tower-quality. WAY LESS THIS CHEAP STUFF with awful, big-boobed little girls that succeeds, and gets attention, purely because there’s a legion of weirdos who champion it mostly for the pervy stuff. You could also just bring over a good brawler with attractive WOMEN in it (like Onechanbara Z), but this big boobed little girl stuff is messed up. It’s good to hear you’re gonna keep it limited to just Senran Kagura.

You’re better than that, XSeed! (☆^ー^☆)

Good to know Bullet Girls is gonna stay in Japan!

DesmaX

“You could also just bring over a good brawler with attractive WOMEN in it (like Onechanbara Z)”

lol

Jadfish

if all a game has going for it is fanservice, I’m not interested. If it has a shit ton of crazy gameplay and fanservice GIMME DAT

Wtv

You do know that Onechanbara has more fanservice and less everything else than Senran Kagura, right?

hng qtr

Bullet Girls isn’t even out yet. Aren’t you being too judgemental?

Landale

Let’s try not being blatantly sarcastic and hypocritical shall we? These topics bring enough headaches on their own, we don’t need people trying to provoke more.

Z3

The hypocrisy in this post man

MSJ

Oneechanbara Z…lol my sides XD

buddyluv324

I cant tell if you just trolling for attention or serious. The fact that you mentioned Onechanbara alone is a dead giveaway.

I think the main part about Onechanbara being mentioned is the women versus girls part. The fanservice isn’t the problem; the characters being underage is what gets it the sideeye from me, and sounds the same for this person.

buddyluv324

Its true about Onechanbara, although we have learned that there are people who have an issue with adult female characters being sexualized, but the more problematic issue I usually see with such debates is the pointless and baseless sex/slut shamming, name calling and such to a point where the whole discussion usually falls apart. What Vince just displayed is yet another example of the pitfalls on these debates. Having your own personal beliefs is alright. Labeling certain gamers as “weirdos who champions it mostly for the pervy” is pushing the debate in the wrong direction and the person saying such examples with little to no academic to back it up discredits them to a degree.

Heh, yes, that’s true. I have a problem with the sexuality, but only because of the context. But the inevitable slut shaming (for those opposed to and even for fanservice) doesn’t help, as well as the other parts that follow.

That’s true though. The comment was kind of funny, so I did laugh, but I personally try to avoid making anything personal for anyone in these type of comments (although what I feel is a very different, strong story).

All sides definitely could use a lesson in manners and controlling one’s feelings.

I really wish devs would stop using underage characters for these fanservice titles. I mean, I tend to have problems with their handling of fanservice usually, but the underage part is what really bugs me most.

Wtv

Some teenager girls are pretty sexual though. And have a active sex life. No really judging you, but I don’t really understand why it’s so polemic when sexual fanservice happens with teenager characters…when there’s not actual sex involved. West always sexualized high school girls in television (and real girls at that), and no one cared.

I know, I knew a lot of them. And I’m glad that they had their own agency, could explore their sexuality and feel empowered.

But a real girl exploring her sexuality is completely different than a 2D girl created by grown men to be sexual for grown men, right?

Wtv

It is, because one exist and another don’t. I tried to understand you, and I think you are uncomfortable because you can’t see them as characters, maybe? Just as sex appeal. Since you’re being meta there, because in the work itself they rarely interact with men and weren’t created by them. I can like those character by their personality and still think they are sexy. Maybe that’s why it doesn’t bother me.

Still…that doesn’t explain why only underaged girls. If that’s the reason, you shouldn’t like of a grown woman created by grown men to be sexual for grown men. And even young boys being created by grown women to be sexual for grown women…by making sex with grown men.

To me one doesn’t look worse than another.

And to tell the truth, a lot of design are made to be sexual to the oposite sex, in all media. Superhero comics, for example. You may say that the character in itself is exploring their sexuality while looking sexy…but it doesn’t make sense to me because they were still created that way to be sexual to a reader, and no a sexual partner in potencial.

Still…I think I care more about their role in the story than about why their design was created, or why they make some poses.

Okay, I will be honest and say that I got tl;dr after the first or second paragraph. x’D;

I am uncomfortable; but only because adult men create characters that are sexual, underage girls for other adult men to ogle – on an interactive level especially. It’d still be obnoxious (at the least) if they were adults, but having people not even of age to be put in sexual situations for an adult audience is wildly uncomfortable to me.

Wtv

Sorry, I write too much. And it must be hard to read because english is not my first language. It’s just a question I never understood, but I think it’s something personal for every person that doesn’t really need to have a specific reason anyway.

I thought your writing was quite good actually! It’s pretty much on level with most people that have it as a first language. Indeed, everyone has their specific reasons and feelings on it~.

Shippoyasha

To be fair, no game character has true agency because they are pure fiction. There are FAR riskier things depicted in indie and porn games but I would defend them just the same. They may not be palatable to everyone, but creatives should have the freedom to show them off.

Also, not all female teen fanservice characters are exclusively for men. There actually is a lesbian following for some of these games as well. Not to mention a lot of the art is actually designed by female artists. Neptunia games are designed by a coven of female artists for example, and they have even riskier art than Senran oftentimes.

Also, a lot of ecchi manga and stories are made by girls. Mitsudomoe is a super pervy manga comedy featuring little girls perving out (funny stuff actually) and it was made by an up and coming female mangaka. The legendary Rumiko Takahashi is the same with her pervy Ranma 1/2 and other works that has a lot of sexual comedy poking fun at sexy teen girls.

CasualGamer

from what I read even if a game has tons of fanservice but if it also has great gameplay or characters, XSeed will still release them. So it’s not like they completely leave fanservice out of the market. Sounds good to me. And Senran Kagura does have a fun gameplay and characters. The fanservice is just icing on the cake.

leingod

Well, at least they’re open to evaluate other games if they’re interesting enough. I’m good with that.

P.S. I posted the link that way because it is forbidden to post gifs :). Just remove the space after the last slash.

MSJ

if there’s enough demand for it, I think bullet girls will be brought over…at least I hope so.

Death Metal

I was expecting that Xseed would do Bullet Girls, but after this…

neogeno

Call me self conscious but the ratio of fanservice to gameplay in the earlier SK games kept me away from it. However I had no problem buying games like Bayonetta even though she is quite easily a walking burlesque show. Its because of the outstanding gameplay and combat system Platinum Games put into it that I didn’t even notice (or care) how fanservice-y she was.

SK started out very fanservice-y but started gaining some decent gameplay elements. They don’t have to sacrifice the jiggily-wiggilies if they keep pumping up the combat system to an equal or greater amount.

leingod

SK is purely fanservice. That they happen to be good games too, is almost coincidential!

wyrdwad

No, it’s very much by design. Takaki-san is the man behind the games, and he’s all about fun gameplay before anything else. He’s said in interviews that he wanted a game with a big boob focus, but he didn’t want that to be all there was to it. He wanted it to be a great game, too.

Shippoyasha

To be fair, even in Burst, the sexual element was not that over the top. It was cutesy and moe than all that sexual even in the first outing. The promo art made it seem more lewd than it really is.

neogeno

Yeah, thats what mean. IMO I think if the trailer was more balanced then people wouldn’t be flying off the handle about the games fanservice.

British_Otaku

In the first installment (and Burst), the fanservice is pretty moderated.
It isn’t the best brawler in the world or Bayonetta tier, but the story characterises everyone pretty well and you are more busy being absorbed in the lore and attempting to beat a boss than watching panty shots and blowing up skirts.

Not that the game doesn’t make both an option and generally the more competent games (Shinovi Versus and Senran Kagura 2) have more fanservice options.

neogeno

I can agree with that. I just wished they advertised it more. When I look at a trailer I see tons of T&A and not enough of the great things that you talk about. Granted thats what the dev was going for but like I said earlier, the ratio in those trailers are quite misleading.

British_Otaku

Very true, it is naturally a lot harder to market the intrigue that the story summons as most of it is conveyed through text with a few supporting voice overs, but I imagine a lot of people were disappointed by your average fighting game (Tekken, Soul Calibur, Naruto Storm, Dead or Alive, BlazBlue) having more “fanservice” even if few if any of them let you damage the clothes of the opponent.

EDIT: A number of them do linger on how clothes sway and get realistically wet, dry and dirty.

Wtv

Look at it this way. A lot of western games don’t need a lot of blood and violence because they have good gameplay. A lot of people don’t like violence, but play it for the gameplay. A lot of people doesn’t really like the gameplay, but they are happy with the violence. It’s the same thing for games with sex appeal. They are cattering for some people, but still taking the game seriously. Because, you know…violence most often than not, are fanservice.

The term fanservice is today seed as exclusively sexual themes, but it’s actually about anything that’s not really necessary, but it’s there because the fans like. And violence (just like anything aside the gameplay) can be as distracting as sex appeal. In fact, I don’t really want to play GTA for example because that kind of violence is not for me, even though the gameplay seems good. But I will play violent games while I tolerate it, even though usually I don’t really like it that much.

Ryker

If you’re playing a game like the Last of Us, where you are often forced to engage in violent behavior to survive, that’s a very fundamental element of the gameplay experience. It’s not superfluous nor can it remotely be coined fan service.

Can you think of a situation where reality defying jiggly boob physics would be integral to the gameplay experience so much so that it couldn’t be called fan-service? I can’t, because it is the definition of such a thing. It adds nothing to the experience. It’s there because a niche audience finds it appealing, despite adding no layers to the gameplay itself.

Kurizu208

What the poster meant is that violence for the sake of violence can be fan service too. Such as having the violence be unrealistically gory or something of the like. Last of Us is obviously not like that and not even close to that the other person was talking about.

Fan service does mean a lot of things, such as cameos, putting characters in various situations just to excite fans is fan service too.

In terms of sexual fan service as long it is not the only thing of worth in a product I am okay with it.
SK in particular the fan service is really a bonus. As long as I am not bad at the game the only jiggly boobs I see is when defeating bosses. And even then i can hit start to skip it. (which i do cause it can interrupt combos.)

Ryker

I agree, but I will also pose the question, how often does violent fanservice conflict with a game that has extremely violent visual imagry, take Mortal Kombat for example. I think everyone is aware that Fatalities and the like are blatant fan-service, but never have I heard that, “geez those fatalies are so out of place, why the blatant fanservice”? It’s because the super gory, exaggerated visual animations fit the world that they’re part of, and while theyre unecessary– they aren’t a blaring addition that seems totally out of place.

Senran Kagura is about these Ninja girls who are supposed to be taken seriously, yet the game goes out of it’s away to zoom up on and add extra jiggles to their body parts for the sake of it. It’s not sure if it wants to be a serious game about ninja girls fighting for a cause, or a sexploitation game. It’s when fan-service causes a conflict of interest that it’s failed to serve it’s purpose. I understand that many people are fine with the marriage of these two elements, but for many people it causes a conflict of interest as you can’t sexploit your characters, then go on about how deeply engaging their personalities are, but the developers choose to contradict that sentiment via focussing on their highly exaggerated physical traits. Sexual fanservice conflicts so much with the core of so many games, which is why it’s becoming so synonymous with any/all fan-service. It’s the blatant integration of it, without taking care to not go to far as to hurt the integrity of the overall product.

Well, my goal with this response wasn’t to discuss why I think fan-service in Senran Kagura hurts the series, more than helps it. It was just to express that the blatant inclusion of it, perhaps at the cost of peoples impressions of the product as a whole is why it’s so easy to correlate sexual fan-service with fan-service as a whole. It’s the egregiousness of it that makes it so easy to notice and point out.

I do agree, though, that most unecessary elements are fanservice. But there are extremes.

Kurizu208

The Senran Kagura games were created with the fan service in mind first.The entire reason it was on the 3ds was for the added 3d element to it. The fan service elements actually work quite well in the game and in a lot of cases are entirely optional.

“It’s because the super gory, exaggerated visual animations fit the world
that they’re part of, and while they’re unnecessary– they aren’t a
blaring addition that seems totally out of place.” IMO change gory to sexy and it is the same a SK.

The creator has always been upfront with his intentions on the series, and while it may seem like SK is a fan service game for the sake of fan service it fortunately ended up at a lot more than that. And while it will never be for everyone it isn’t trying to be.

Ryker

Well, I’m not used to taking fan-servicey animes or games seriously, so while that may have been the intention of the creator/designer, it conflicts with my own way of thinking. The absurd nature of fan-service is too much for me. I did acknowledge that others have no problem accepting the marriage of the over-the-top fan-service and ‘content’. To each their own. It’s just natural that violence is a precursor to gore, no matter how obscene. Flappy boobs are not a precursor to ninja girls in school girl outfits. It’s just the epitome of fan-service.

Kurizu208

I am probably more okay with it then most considering in real life I know girls who flaunt their body and sexuality more then this game, as well as sexuality be prevalent in so many forms of media.

Well the “flappy boobs” is a product of taking damage in game which to be fair in a fight with blades if your bra gets cut “flappy” boobs can happen to best of ninja school girls.

Shippoyasha

I disagree that sexual fanservice somehow conflicts with the core of a mythos when the entire style of a game’s world is meant to be over the top. They are not making the ninja girls be in a real life world where everything makes sense. There’s far more fantastical things happening in Senran Kagura such as ninja magic. demons raining from the sky, girls having physical power far exceeding anything even remotely realistic.

This is like saying pro wrestling can’t be ‘taken seriously’ when its entire premise from the get go is to be absurdist, escapist entertainment.

There’s a certain element of suspension of disbelief with many games like these.

Ryker

I think your pro wrestling argument is valid. MANY people do not take it seriously because of the things you mentioned. However, that doesn’t take away from its validity as an escape mechanism. Obviously, it works to act as an escape for many people, no matter how absurd it is. That’s a different argument for a different day.

You can disagree on sexual fan-service conflicting with the core of the mythos, however my statement still stands. It’s conveyed in such a juvenile way that it doesn’t do anything but hurt my opinion of what the developers tried to accomplish, by choosing to focus on the exploitative angled nature of the fan-service, they are choosing to say, “here look at this, this is what we want you to look at”. I would have more respect for the series if they gave the girls abnormally large boobs and made them sexually attractive without having to zoom in on them. But apparently, you might miss the fact that they have overtly large boobs that jiggle for days.

Also, let it be known that I am alright with Senran Kagura existing, I do think its ridiculous, and that the fan service is a detriment to what could have been a much more broadly appealing game. I feel the same way about animes that overuse fanservice, so much so that it distracts from the serious story that is being told. Highscool DXD is a good example of this. Perhaps you’re able to buy into it, but I’m not.

Shippoyasha

There in lies the problem. ‘broadly appealing’ is not justice. It’s not even right. If you have sexual appeal in games, it’s disservice to not show it off. In heavily visual mediums like games and movies and comics and such, you don’t just pan the video out and pretend they don’t exist. You feature them full and upfront.

If you are so put off by sexual aspects of things, I can’t blame you. But I don’t think they are detracting anything because they show off the designs proudly and boldly.

I think you are ascribing too closely with how the mass media in America chooses to lean heavily politically correct in everything, like holding things back is the ‘morally’ or ‘tasteful’ thing to do. I don’t agree with that mindset at all. Also, not making nudity and fanservice up front and center in Highschool DxD would literally destroy the entire spirit of the show. It wouldn’t be the same if it wasn’t so proudly up front about its material. You can simply watch all the other anime that doesn’t heavily feature ecchi elements all you want.

You can’t just accuse it of being detrimental just for having it.

Ryker

Actually, I can do exactly that. If I am immersed in a game, but the camera keeps honing in on T&A, it can totally break the immersion of the experience. Something that breaks the immersion of the experience is detrimental by definition. I had this exact problem with the Senran Kagura anime. I was like, hey this isn’t so bad. — but I eventually got sick of how every opportunity to show these girls camel toes and breastage often overshadowed the creators attempt at developing them as more than sexual objects. I was being asked to do something that the creator himself didn’t even feel strongly enough about in order to follow through with it.

Let me be clear that I do not agree that what you call as “sexual appeal” in Senran Kagura even fits the definition. It’s far too exaggerated and unsexy, so much as to serve as an annoyance than something legitimately sexy, because of how its depicted and honed in on, hence why I’ve labelled it as juvenile. I don’t find it playful, either, so that description doesn’t come into the picture. I have no problem with sexuality, in fact, elements of those nature are alluring and extremely enjoyable, but its integration into games like Senran Kagura are a bit too over the top and National Lampoon’s-like. That’s fine, but don’t ask me to respect a product when a developer chooses to take that route, and then wants me to treat their depiction of ‘sexuality’ as something worth respecting due to artistic freedom. It serves its purpose, but I don’t have to like it.

You’re right that the game doesn’t have to be anything other than what it is for the sake of making it more broadly appealing, but it doesn’t have to be so damned alienating either. I don’t think the game wouldve been hurt if the females looked exactly the way they do now, without all of the extra energy and resources put into a fully developed jiggly breast engine and voyeristic angles.

I find it repelling and it has nothing to do with the mainstream media. That’s as valid a reason as any not to play something.

More on-topic: I wonder why Tom felt the need to make this statement? Has the inclusion of fanservice hurt Xseeds image and are they doing damage control? I thought the first Senran Kagura game did really well for them. I still feel as though they are going to go where the money is. If thats with fanservice games, so be it. Technically, they can justify releasing just about anything over here, if there is an audience willing to champion it and buy it.

Shippoyasha

I think sexual upfrontness is sexy. I don’t consider ‘perving out’ to be some innately bad thing. I can understand it’s not for everyone. But you are actually wrong for saying Takaki, the creator of this game isn’t passionate about the sexual nature. He cited Life and Hometown as one of the core reasons to even make the game at all.

Again, the girls have a lot of dimensions to their personality as the storymodes flesh their backstories out. Much of it which is dramatic or even tragic.

The thing about the sexual content being ‘repellent’ is why I consider this a niche title for those who likes games to be irreverent as possible. Not everything has to dress pim and proper to impress as many people as possible. If anything, the vast majority of gaming is hardly sexual and it is refreshing to me as an ecchi fan to see a game embrace the sexual content full stop. The game makes no pretenses about its schlock and I love that about it.

As for Tom, he is a marketer and it’s his job to answer inquiries. I respect him quite a bit for doing an amazing job at it. I would dare not call his work damage control at all. He is just a frank guy.

Ryker

The girls are just a product of Takaki’s imagination. They aren’t being upfront and open about their sexuality as much as theyre being portrayed in a completely calculated manner, sexually for the enjoyment of the playing/viewing audience. Most of the time they aren’t even aware(within the confines of their reality) that they’re being objectified. It’s a bit too sleazy, for my liking, to abuse their lack of agency like that.

If you meant that you enjoyed Takaki’s portrayal of the characters, that he was so upfront about their sexual assets, then I think he should’ve let their assets speak for themselves. I’m no stranger to artists drawing characters with physically attractive traits, that are meant to be admired and appreciated. Take Urd from Ah! My Goddess, for example. While there is very light fan-service in the anime depiction of the series, I like that Urd’s sexual upfrontedness spoke for itself, and that the author only emphasized her sexuality when she used it for an expressed purpose. I have eyes, it wasn’t necessary for the author to depict Urd in compromising positions, in order for me to appreciate Urd’s lack of inhibition and to admire her great physical attributes. I was able to embrace and appreciate her sexuality, without it detracting from her intellect, wisdom, kind heart, and commanding personality. That level of finesse cannot be overstated. On the opposite end, to continually hammer in the fact that “looky here, these girls have big boobs”, is obnoxious, and totally conflicted with what I feel Takaki wanted to achieve. For some people, there’s no looking past fanservice to that extreme.

I never once said Takaki wasn’t passionate. You have to be pretty passionate to integrate whole systems dedicated to unrealistic boob physics and upskirt camera angles into your games. Dekamori Senran Kagura also implies a passion for girls eating phallac shaped food objects while having syrups, whipped cream, and other toppings poured onto them. No one can deny his passion!

I support the full integration of sexual subject matter into videogames, but Senran Kagura isn’t helping that cause. I don’t think reducing it to opportunistic shots of T&A is helping the notion of sexuality being embraced by the gaming public, at all. In fact, it could be doing the opposite. I think Mass Effect made far greater strides in integrating the idea of sexuality in such a way that gamers were like, “you know what, I wouldn’t mind more of this”, and it went as far as to include romantic interaction that led to sex scenes, whether same sex coupling, different species intermingling or traditional coupling. I’m not saying that every form of sexual content has to make a statement, but I don’t really see how a series like Senran Kagura will help gamers embrace sexual content as a whole, as it’s far too alienating and, in my opinion, not really sexy as much as it is pandering to a certain audience due to how absurdly portrayed it is. If anything, it’s just helping that market grow, which is absolutely fine, but does nothing for the greater representation or depiction of sexuality, unless you’re only interested in the gratuitous and voyeuristic depiction of sexual nature.

And about Tom, I thought he was a translator. Knowing now that he’s a marketer, I’m still wondering what the impetus was for them clarifying their stance on fan service games. I doubt they were just replying to a singular facebook user. I’ve just read a lot of commentary lately referring to Xseed possibly turning into this fan-service machine, with tons of people begging them for ports of the latest fan-service game from japan. I wonder if they were catching wind of that? I was becoming skeptical about their future of localizing traditional japanese games, despite having a healthy upcoming roster of non FS games, with the current upswing of fanservice heavy games garnering the most attention. I want to say I’m happy about their clarification, but let’s see what the future holds.

Shippoyasha

You don’t need to get atop a soapbox and preach about how unrealistic the sexual nature is. That is precisely why it’s fun and irreverent. You keep thinking that sexuality has to be dead serious or always meaningful and held back. But I disagree. Sexuality can be a lot of different things. The types that you like and dislike as well.

Speaking of which, I’m cool with Mass Effect, Witcher and more serious minded games doing their own thing in regarding sexuality. Funny thing is, I am a fan of them too. But for different reasons than liking more fansersvicey games. That’s more your schtick and it’s cool you like it. But don’t go running around denouncing schlocky games like they need to cater to your tastes as well. Clearly you aren’t fine with some of them so then you are not the proper authority to judge them.I find it repellent that you actually think this is about the fans of ecchi content to furthering REAL LIFE sexuality. That’s clearly not what I have said. And I said that constantly. You keep throwing out the ‘it’s okay you enjoy it’ but you clearly don’t. And again, that aspect is why games like this are a niche. Not every game has to appeal to everyone.

You said before that people can separate the fictional from the realistic as well. That’s precisely the thing.

Ryker

Gonna keep this short and sweet. The nature of the fanservice was the only thing I touched on in Senran Kagura. I never suggested that this type of game shouldn’t exist because it doesn’t fit my own umbrella of interests, but only described why I find the fan-service in the series so crass and off-putting, as to be an ingredient that ruins the dish for me.

I acknowledge that you, and fans of the series may find the fanservice elements sexy, fun, and irreverent, but you stating that point of view as objective in nature and incontestable by opposing viewpoints is actually a bit unfair. To further elaborate, take S&M for example. I could say it’s totally not sexy, yet anyone who is into it would most likely not take that as a personal attack and brush it off. I could go on and on about how grotesque feet are, that foot fetishes are gross and unsexy, but Im still able to acknowledge that this is genuinely appealing to some people. I can not like something and be totally fine with it, as is the case here.

I also don’t like Monster Monpiece or Diabolik Lovers because of elements that personally conflict with my interests, but I’ll be damned if they shouldn’t exist. Don’t confuse my qualms with a focal aspect of Senran Kagura as a damning proclamation of games of its nature, and fans of said games.

Edit:In response to you referring to the game as niche and how I should just be ok with it as is, because it was made with a specific audience in mind, I’m not asking to be catered to(no more than the people who are overly defensive about the original vision remaining intact), but Xseed/Marvelous should know that all fans are not privy to fan-service heavy games over traditional games(if they even factor in fan opinion when it comes to choosing projects). That’s the only reason I shared my thoughts in this thread to begin with. It’s not a personal attack on what you enjoy, as it is just me making it clear to a company that I’ve oft supported what I think about fanservice. I don’t have to accept everything as-is just because the majority of the fanbase is ok with it. Less fanservice would make me more inclined to buy something like Senran Kagura, even though it’s been repeatedly stated that it would change the whole feel of the game because Takaki intended for it to be a game about boobs while maintaining a good story and characterization. I just personally don’t place as much value in the fan service elements as other people. I even went as far as to say that the boobs and character designs are fine and that I only have a problem with the absurd jiggling and voyeur shots. If that is threatening to the ‘integrity’ of the creators vision, I will say what I say to those who protest how great Japanese dubs are over English dubs due to it being the original vision of the product. Different strokes for different folks. I actually prefer English Dubs.

Alas, I don’t want to continue this circle of responses based on misconceptions about my line of thinking, so I’m ending it here Shippo. You’re just gonna have to take my word for it that I detest fan-service, especially the type in Senran Kagura, but it doesn’t bother me that it exists for other people to enjoy. I am slightly bothered when its in a game that I’m otherwise interested in and it can diminish my opinion or hype for a game. That’s the extent of it.

Edit: Not so short and sweet, huh?

Shippoyasha

Heh, I kind of like Diabolik Lovers and Monpiece too. Sorry for dragging you in too deep, but if I had to say, I don’t think you’re a bad person. I just think you have a lot of talking points that will justify a lot of people trashing on fanservice lovers and the more extreme people who actually want us to be gone from the industry and fandom for good. I’ll take your word for it that you don’t feel that way yourself. But there are so many games that will never get a chance at localization because people are so vocal about being outraged at games that they will never play even if localized. And frankly, it’s a never ending war with them. I get that you have personal perspectives and I can respect that. But I don’t think you are naive to think that fanservice fans are constantly under attack from almost every angle, including from other gamers.

With games discussing fanservice, people who come to the forefront and actually hint that there could be something almost morally wrong with is extremely off putting. I mean, I don’t think that’s your intention, but people who are into these series are so used to being called problem children or even morally reprehensible monsters, there’s a good reason why fanservice fans has to be defensive. Because we have to be. I know artists (well, I am one, that’s why I love the original vision of artists so much) and even gravure photographers and erotic entertainment workers and we are just good, fun loving people who happen to enjoy exploring sexuality in the medium. And by that, I don’t mean in some spiritual, societal way necessarily. Just the pure aesthetic and physical form can be fun and beautiful too. And if there’s demand, there should be supply in a safe and respectful manner.

Sorry if it seems insulting, but some in the sexual entertainment circle kind of laugh off the hyper critical responses, because that seems to not factor in that people who enjoy these content largely have a certain filter as to enjoy them. For 2D content, it’s that they are purely fictional. For 3D/real people, it’s the trust that the models are paid and compensated and have fun doing it. Again, I can see why all this is a more of a risky side to a ‘normal society’. I don’t think any of us are actually saying that everyone must like our content or even needs to be comfortable about it. Not to mention people discussing the content aren’t doing so from the perspective of finding faults, because it is rather easy to see why these types of entertainment would be a hard sell or even be seen as problematic. That’s just considered beating a dead horse within the community. I know you have your own perspective to it but no offense, it’s the kind of critiques we had to deal with ALL the time.

Another thing is that I don’t think this is zero sum game with Xseed at all. They are doing all they can to localize everything they can get their hands on. I just get irked when people start blaming fanservicey stuff as to why they don’t localize other stuff. What people don’t understand is that Xseed is a Marvelous subsidiary. So stuff like Senran is under their belt and must be localized if the demand is there. While other franchises fall under other umbrellas of companies in Japan and makes localizing a bit more of a complex picture. I just feel that people look at the ‘fanservice’ word like it’s a slur (well, to many people it seems that’s true. Look at this thread), and of course, fanservice fans are on their heels, defending something that is getting a lot of undue attack.

As for being defensive about original content, I don’t think it’s a mystery why so many people dislike that as an idea, because Japanese game localizations have been RAVAGED by that for the past 30+ years of gaming. Stuff like Persona almost destroyed that series in America by the first game. Also, if they can afford to do so, maybe they can program games so that some of the extra fanservicey elements can be filtered in-game and not take them entirely out so that fanservice lovers have to contend with cut content forever and basically pay through out noses to ever buy the original Japanese versions. I think there’s some very legitimate reasons as to why original vision matters. That includes violent content for me as well, as Japan gamers deal with excessive cut content for violence when western games go there. Not to mention I had to contend with censored content on BOTH sides of the pacific. Whenever there is a ‘risky’ game, I had to deal with that since childhood. And frankly, it’s just very, very tiresome to me. To me, there’s no such thing as good censorship. People will just have to deal with the fact that not all entertainment is destined to have mass appeal and sometimes they can even be borderline offensive. And to me, that’s the kind of freedom creative products should have. It’s something that just doesn’t seem to exist in many parts of the world including America, where cartoons have been basically raped with FCC regulations dooming all cartoons to be kids-only.

Damn. Sorry it got so long. I just don’t know how to shorten everything down with discussions like these.

Ryker

I can’t help but respect your point of view, but it was only ever my intention to describe how I felt about the depiction of the cast in Senran Kagura, more than make a statement about ecchi games as a whole. Thanks for helping me see your own personal plight though, it is eye opening. You’d be surprised how open-minded I am of things of a pornographic nature and sexuality, but Senran Kagura is one of those in between things. I can’t seem to make peace with what people are actually getting out of the product, when the fan service elements(exaggerated jiggles, voyeur shots, humiliated clothes shredding) served to detract from any positive qualities that I may have otherwise been interested in. I understand you see the series in a whole different light, as more playful and enjoyable due to the absurdities– and that’s a very fair assessment, and one that I can wholly accept. It’s just that absurdities that lead to characterization breaks or conflict with the message that “Takaki wanted to create a game with boobs but with a great story and characters as well” are so prevalent that its enough for me to feel insulted every time I’m exposed to what I consider to be of a (insert your choice of adjectives that are not as incendiary as the ones I used, but are not exactly complimentary here) nature.

I want to touch on other aspects of your ‘thesis'(lol) as well, but I will just chicken pick and touch on a few things that caught my eye. If I’m not addressing something, it’s because I agree with it, or understand it enough to respect it.

Yes, telling me that you and your friends in your artsy-fartsy little sexual entertainment circle of evolved elitists in brown capris, pink tank top wearing, with coke-bottle glasses, sipping on wine, barefooted, with unkempt hair dangling from your foreheads, in need of root touch-ups, laughing at my little peon, hypercritical, mini-king-james-holy-bible attached to my lap, searching-for-scripture so i can damn things of a sexual nature self IS INSULTING. I’m sorry, this is just the first image that popped into my head, and I thought it was hilarious. But, really I don’t think I’m being hypercritical. I guess you might assume that I’m a prude based on my stance, but I feel my major empathy, for even works of fiction with characters who are characterized, not just aesthetic muses, and for them be posed or propped a certain way that might be for the sole sexual enjoyment of the viewing audience, creating a characterization break or compromising the integrity of the subject matter to serve that purpose, is icky.

I guess the zero-sum game that people play with Xseed– suggesting they can’t localize both fanservice games and have a healthy roster of traditional Japanese content is a bit unfair, but it’s also somewhat logical. Xseed has often cited “limited resources” as a reason for not localizing certain games, and it’s very understandable. It’s also easy, and quite logical to assume, that if a game of Senran Kagura’s nature is being localized, then another deserving game without fan-service, or even with it,( im not saying one is better than the other, people have their preferences) has a lesser chance of being localized. It is a self-serving stance, for sure. I am aware of the dynamic between Xseed and Marvelous AQL that makes Senran Kagura a special circumstance, but it does open the floodgate for more games of that nature to come to the west. I’m not saying this is good or bad, but games that would have otherwise been localized might not be, because of this. Resources are being competed for.

You may not know this, but I’m a lover of JRPGS first and foremost, stemming from the original Final Fantasy, having the genre solidified as my favorite with Final Fantasy 2 US, playing any and everything since then: DQ, BoF, Xeno-Games, Persona(<3), SMT, Etrian, Wild Arm, Suikoden, CT/CC– I can go on forever. Because of this, I can best empathize with you about liking a genre with niche appeal. I can relate to fighting for representation and acceptance in the mainstream. I'm very well-acquainted with individuals who automatically disregard rpgs because of the combat, for instance, — but honestly, it doesn't bother me as long as an audience supports rpgs and they keep coming over to the west in some form(even if i have to tolerate a little fanservice in them). I think lewd FS games have a dedicated fanbase, so I don't believe there is a danger in those games not being localized. It is a shame, however, that they are being needlessly censored– for example, to the extreme that Criminal Girls has been gutted.

I remember being so upset every time one of my jrpgs got even the slightest form of censorship, and those were petty by comparison. the Xenosaga series had blood removed during death scenes and there was a certain scene where the main villain from the first game broke the bones of a kirschwasser(loli looking cybernetic-type doll), and it was made to look like he let go of her arm and it broke itself. There was also a scene where he inserted his hand into the chets of the moe-loli character MOMO, that the esrb deemed far too violent and sexually implicit, so instead his hand hovered over MOMO during those scenes. Now the edits weren't too extreme, and didn't hurt the games by much, but they were mostly unnecessary changes. I really do feel as if a game like Criminal Girls is going to be localized, then it's content should remain intact. I was also a bit perturbed when I heard Monpiece was coming over to the west and they were removing tons of cards. I'm not into that type of subject matter at ALL, but I don't see the harm in it if other people are enjoying it and it's not hurting anyone. I feel the same way about SK, even though I felt compelled to express why the fanservice was such a detriment to otherwise appealing qualities of the game, for me. Speaking of which, wanting the FS toned down is a selfish desire on my part– and it's better off just staying the way it is, despite me having issues with it. I don't think I would play it even if they added the option to reduce the FS, cause I would know that it was still a core element of the series, and I was supporting it by allowing myself to be ignorant to it. I'd rather it just embrace the Hometown and Life for those people who are 'nostalgic' about it.

I could probably write another paragraph or two on censorship in cartoons, but instead I only have two suggestions for you if you haven't already seen these shows. Archer(more of a comic booky cartoon) and Adventure Time are highly recommended.

I dont think my intentions are bad, they can be a little self-serving, but who doesn't want to support their own best interest. I try to keep it as civil as possible with people who have conflicting viewpoints, and while I may use descriptors that trigger deep-rooted anger or disdain from people who are accustomed to hearing my line of thought, I think it's important to be true to myself and represent where I stand, just as you have so eloquently done in the two chapters of your book I just read. You should know Shippo, I think your passion is great. I don't know if were gonna butt heads again, but we can at least agree that coleslaw is the only tolerable dish with mayonnaise.

Shippoyasha

Speaking of the ‘inbetween’, that’s the fun of gravure and ecchi I suppose. It’s not full on porn (which I appreciate too) but it’s not so risque that one can’t enjoy it openly depending on location.
If I had to describe ecchi, it’s more a matter of cuteness and light titillation than anything. I know it’s hard to describe as to what their allure is though. It’s something I wrangle with all the time. I get that it’s a bit of a mystery to you and at least you are cool and open about that.

As for the ‘icky’ elements of light sexual allure, the thing is, I guess there are certain rules a lot of creatives and its fans abide by. The thing is, we know it’s silly, shallow and is focused largely on the physical attraction at least at first. Appreciating that doesn’t mean the depth isn’t there or that we are intent on dehumanizing them. I don’t think that’s ever the intent. It’s more about letting the chains of ‘properness’ we see in society and just get to the physical attraction element. Yes, I can understand why it can be seen as icky. But honestly, I feel it should be fine and even healthy as long as people understand that it’s all in a fictional space (even for real life gravure), and not something we aspire to or demand of in the real world. And most definitely, the intent should never be to harm someone by it. But even then, at least with some fanservicey stuff, creators can definitely put in some work making the characters stand out and be unique in multiple other facets too. I know it sounds absurd to a lot of people, but I actually care about a lot of fanservicey characters not just for how they look, but their personalities supplementing (or even overriding) their visual aesthetic. That’s why stuff like Senran keeps getting defended by fans because so much of the story is about fleshing out the characters not only physically but characterization wise as well. There’s even some pretty well done dramatic moments in the first game.

As for the resources with Xseed, the thing is, they have always brought a LOT of niche titles the past 10 years (especially their heroic stand on the PSP, which had ZERO support from Sony and it was like a parade of Xseed games only in PSP’s last years) and it seems they are doing the same these days as well. It’s just that Senran is in the forefront because it’s one of Marvelous flagships. But even then, there was a time when the fans thought Senran would never be localized. It was almost 2 years of waiting for the first game, and it will be more than 2 years for Versus as well. So it’s not even that easy for Senran fans too. The whole thing with Tom coming out and saying this is that there’s this weird perception that they are the only ones doing fanservice. But the truth is that they are the only champions of fanservicey games that are untouched (but even then, they took out the ages of the characters in Senran games and will likely do that for Akiba Trip and others too). I think it’d be far better if the likes of NISA and other localization companies stopped censoring/changing content then it’d be a lot easier to not hem Xseed as the last hope for fanservice fans. Either way, I am still optimistic for their library. I get where you are coming from though. It’s not without merit. It’s worth discussing for sure. I just get a bit peeved when Senran fans are under attack like it’s the direct reason why Falcom games aren’t being localized. Then again, Xseed has always been a staunch believer and localizer of Falcom so I have hope.

And thanks for understanding that Criminal Girls fans are not in a good place especially in NISA censors a lot of stuff. Who knows? Maybe they will shock the world and releases it uncensored. Then again, we have our imports. Though it’ll be like $70 with import fees..

I do still feel the sting over Xenosaga as well. The whole point of those ‘risque’ scenes is lost when they are changed so much. I know going to Youtube (or just looking for video footage outside of Youtube before there was a Youtube) was viable, but it really hurt the fans who wanted a whole experience, not suddenly deal with entire scenes changed in crucial plot moments.

As for fanservice’s appeal, yeah, you’re right that there’s a nostalgic element as well. I remember the days when genitalia was a thing in anime. Even male/female ones. Artistic shows, drama, fanservice shows, sports shows, they all had something like that. But then the demagogues came in and started censoring content (especially blood and violence, hence why so much anime these days are on late night or on cable/satellite anime networks). At least it’s not to the extent FCC has murdered American cartoons, but anime did actually get more censored since the 60s, 70s and on and on. While more shows today are more risque in some ways, it’s kind of amazing how shows can get away with sexual nature while *always* censoring actual genitalia or sex act. Only a very, very few romance shows can afford to have sex scenes these days.

That being said, the thing with fanservice to me is that it’s just childlike wonder and fun. I mean, I got into fanservicey stuff when elementary school girl classmates introduced me to them. They actually had a lot more fun with the content than me at the time. I mean, there’s just a culture that sees sexual stuff as schlocky fun even for young audiences (usually elementary schoolers smuggling in mid-teen manga to school or something though). While I understand that sexual content exposure can be dangerous and risky too, I guess the thing is that at least Japan ingrains into kids that people should never take comics/cartoons seriously. That kind of stuff is drilled into our heads to the point of excessiveness but I suppose it worked.

And oh yes, Archer and Adventure TIme are some of my all time favorites. Too bad Archer would not be kosher outside of cable TV though. Even stuff like the awesome new Avatar and TMNT cartoons, they likely would be considered too risque for network TV. Just sad that the barometer for acceptability is so low in American network TV. While children’s anime are butchered with ridiculous dubs and visual changes.

But yes, I think I’m at a point where I see your username pop up and I’m not shaking my head or getting angry. I realize I am being pretty emotional on my end too. And I do know you mean well as well. There’s some people around here like Goran I’d like to make up with as well because I’m sure everyone has good intentions, just not sure how to settle down and come to a consensus. Again, I totally respect that people just don’t have the same tastes as fanservice lovers do. It’s just one of those things that will naturally divide opinions. And hey, I’d go as far as to say that maybe games could have a filtered mode for those who want pure gameplay and less sexual stuff. Not censorship, but maybe some in-game mode. Dead or Alive is brilliant that way, because you can dress a lot of the girls in real combat style gear + undo the jiggle effects (you input your age where younger age= less jiggle, higher age= more jiggle. Kind of a fun and silly mechanic really).

In the end, I do wish for the best things for every gamer if we can be helped. I never intended to make an enemy out of you and I realize you didn’t intend to do that with me. More so than your posting style, I do understand I can be very tough to discuss things with. I’m someone who was banned in countless forums for my posting style sometimes. So I have to say, I am sorry on my end way more so.

Wtv

The Last of Us is actually one of my favorite games. Probably my favorite AAA game from last year. And even though I agree that the violence did help with the atmosphere and concept of the game…there was still to much.

You know, it was a survival kind of game. It would make more sense if you would run away and hide more than killing things…But I had to kill a lot of things, and I was playing on hard. Hell, more often than not I had to kill everything in the room.

Remember the Tomb Raider thing? About how “the players wanted to use the gun as soon as they got it”. American players wants to kill things, so games will put way more things to kill than it needs. Still fanservice.

And in The Last of Us was justified because there was a lot of work on the storytelling and atmospheric to be that way…but it’s not always the case. And even when it is, usually there is not need for such a detalied image of the gore. For example, I love Bioshock Infinite, but that first kill scene was really unecessary…and it actually didn’t make a lot of sense because the game wasn’t that violent in general. So why was it there? And in the beggining of the game, no less…can you guess?

Also, remember the controversy on the Dead Space TV ad? They were selling just violence. Wasn’t that the same thing that those japanese ad do for Senran Kagura? Focus only on the most fanservice thing even though the game has a lot more.

I’m not complaing. I’m not saying these games shouldn’t be violent. I’m saying they didn’t need to be, usually. There are different cases, sure, but we know that western games are more violent because western gamers love violence and it would be different other way. And that there are games that put violence without any need.

And while you can’t really use sexual fanservice in the gameplay (well, I’m sure someone will find one way soon, but..), you don’t compare those. Compare this fanservice with those scripted violence from western games. Or those in cutscenes, because that’s more the case.

In fact, just like the atmosphere from TLOU works with the violence a little more, the over the top, silly and comedic atmosphere from Senran Kagura works a little better with the sexual fanservice. Hell, just look at those skills from the last SK2 trailer. Maybe it’s not your thing, but I found it pretty amusing and funny because it was so ridiculous (in a good way).

Shippoyasha

I disagree that fanservice adds ‘nothing’ to the experience. It’s just there to be fun. Taking out the risque elements just to be politically correct is anti-fun. Not everything has to have a deep meaning or pass the political correctness test. Having schlocky entertainment is NOT amoral.

Ryker

I never touched on the morality of its inclusion. It does not make it more fun for me, nor risque. It’s childish and unecessary, so we attach different feelings to it. Not everything has to have deep meaning, but such childishness is so silly that it can overshadow positive aspects of a game. Who said anything about being politically correct?

Shippoyasha

I don’t see why fanservice has to be labeled ‘chilidish’ like adults can’t have irreverent fun anymore. If anything, these games are sold to a mid-teen to young adult audiences no doubt. But I fail to see how being fanservice oriented automatically makes it unpalatable on philosophy alone. All the labeling of it as ‘childish’ is merely forcing people to play these kinds of stuff in secret.

Another issue is also that many artists making erotica art is accused of being crass or childish as well. I just don’t think putting them down just for their muse is fair at all. It’s just another type of entertainment, albeit as risque as they are.

Ryker

Well, I label it as childish because it takes what I would consider a voyeuristic approach on the females, akin to sneaking a glance, and not fully allowing them to embrace their sexuality, but existing for the pleasure of player alone. It’s the nature that it’s depicted that I consider juvenile. Take the adverts from Sin City 2, with overtly sexy women, who are embracing their sexuality, aware of its power and influence, who are owning their sexuality,– They aren’t being exploited because they’re aware of their sexuality. I consider oblivious sexual fan-service of unaware, barely of age females exploitative and such an immature depiction of sexuality.

Shippoyasha

You are making HUGE assumptions there and I already can tell you have rarely, if ever played a fanservice game. Games like Senran Kagura actually delves into these things a lot more than people give them credit for.

And you are taking the ‘sexploitation’ word way too literally there. Not to mention the reason why we can have young characters and fanservice in games is precisely because they are NOT real. Trying to put in real world connotations don’t work because the fantasy is the whole point of it. It’s like how males in games all look chiseled and look like Hollywood stars. It’s not something made to belittle or demean anyone. It’s just to have nice looking characters because the gaming medium gives artists the freedom to.

Not to mention many action and schlocky games don’t NEED the storytelling or some major backstory to everything. They can be purely based on aesthetics and gameplay above anything else if they want to. As that’s the freedom games have. Not all games should strive to be something akin to a book or a movie. That’s why they are videogames. Not movies and not book. Again, if you want something more serious, there’s always options available.

Artistic freedom is NOT childish. You just seem hellbent on calling people out as childish and immature just because you are heavily predisposed to it and wants to go as far as to tell people are morally in the wrong for having different tastes.

That’s okay. I realize people get heated when it comes to their fanservice, particularly of the sexual sort. (I know I do.)

Lets just try and keep a cool head and keep all talk rational and on debate line~.

Shippoyasha

Fair enough.

It’s just kind of difficult to discuss when things are called juvenile or childish like it’s an automatic negative.

One etymology I can bring up is how people never cite their romantic partners as ‘woman friend’ or ‘man friend’. It’s ‘girlfriend’ or ‘boyfriend’. There’s a playful lightness to youthfulness as well. I think that’s so overlooked in discussions like these.

It’s normal to go on the defensive when what you like is being talked about that way, but it’s important to be able to step back and understand why they say that.

If you feel you might not be able to, it may be best to remove yourself from those particular conversations.

Shippoyasha

The thing is, I think people have a certain perspective like fanservice and over the top fanservice can’t be defended. But I feel it definitely can. And I am not comfortable with some kind of allusion that people enjoying fanservice has a certain negative view of the real world or are broken, ammoral people. The point is that artistic mediums has the freedom and safety to do these things in the ultimate safe space of pure fiction.

While I am for human sexual openness in the real world as well, I don’t think it’s the same argument as enjoying fanservice in a purely fantastical, escapist space.

Okay. But what I’m saying is, if we can’t stop it from getting personal in our comments, it is probably time to leave that particular comment thread.

Ryker

I don’t even know what to say about your argument about attaching real world connotations to why I’m judging Senran Kagura as exploitative. Sure, you’re able to overlook the nature of the game because it isn’t real, and so am I. Does it mean I want to embrace such a thing? No, It’s fundamentally unappealing to me, not necessarily because it’s taboo in real life. It just doesn’t click with me, and there’s no more to it than that. If people enjoy that stuff, far be it from me to tell them otherwise. It’s just too puerile in nature for me and reeks of exploitation of the female cast, — which is my opinion, and should have no affect on how you perceive the game. It personally turns me off to the game, though.

The term ‘Artistic freedom’ is thrown around quite often to justify why anything and everything should be accepted and immune to criticism because it was done in the name of art, but Senran Kagura is an interactive medium, and like all art, it is subject to intense praise, scrutiny, or anything in between. I can appreciate the intention of the artist without agreeing with the end result. I’m not hellbent on calling people anything. I only ever referred to the nature of the fan-service. I don’t think you’re immature at all for liking it. Family Guy can be pretty immature, but hell if I don’t like it. I honestly just don’t like the way fan-service is depicted and shoved in my face, in the manner that it is. That’s all there is to it. If you are ok with it, then whats the problem?

Shippoyasha

It’s fine if you don’t like it. But saying it is an ‘exploitation ‘is not a convincing argument. It’s meant to be playful and fun, not citing the fanservicey elements like it is about holding these elements back like we always do in the real world. If it turns you off, that’s fine. But you don’t need to keep shoving the whole ‘exploitation’ angle at me like I need to buy into what ‘general audiences’ think. I could not care less if games like these ruffles some feathers. That’s the whole freedom that ecchi and softly erotic art affords.

Again, the whole point of appreciating this isn’t to appreciate the ‘exploitation’. That’s you interjecting a heavily negative connotation into it. Obviously, if we extend the insanity of games into the real world standards of things, it wouldn’t fly. But that is the whole point.

You say you are cool with others enjoying it, but you keep forcing the view like other people are morally wrong for creating and enjoying it. Clearly you are NOT cool with it.

Ryker just mentioned (a couple of times) that they were not addressing the morality of it. They have stated time and again their thought and just said if you like it, that’s fine and that there isn’t a problem. You’re free to have your opinion, as they are their’s.

This is a heads up that you need to be careful where you’re going with this. Second, semi-warning.

I don’t think that’s necessarily what Ryker said; that version is missing some crucial details.

Wtv

Personally, I think power fantasy is way more childish. And it does gets in the way of the plot more than any other kind of fanservice, like the game having to go out of the way to show how badass and better than everyone the protagonist (that’s supposed to be the player) is. And it’s another fanservice that’s overflowing games..this time in west and japan equally.

I mean, just imagine someone having the need of a game to tell that they are really good, even though is just a game and a fantasy. IMO is pretty embarassing.

That means it’s a bad thing and it should end? Not really, just not my thing. Just showing how what is childish or not really depends a lot of how you see it.

Ryker

I don’t think it’s fan service. No one wants to play a loser. Heck, in the game Bully you go from being bully bait to potentially the biggest bully in the school yard, if you so choose to be.

I think the type of male power fantasy you describe(a lot of females enjoy it too)exists, because it allows an escape for the beta-male or those who feel powerless and disenfranchised to have a taste of what it’s like to be an alpha and to step outside a role that they don’t play in real life. Let’s be honest, most of us will never be the depiction of courage and valor seen in many western and japanese videogames. It’s a valid outlet for escapists, which is why many people play videogames to begin with. To experience being something outside or their own world.

I’m not personally drawn to those games, but I do see their merit. Though, they are a bit over-represented.

Wtv

I don’t do self insert though, so it’s weird to me. And I rather play with a loser that’s a better character than with a Gary Stu.

Actually, I hate those “beta” and “alpha” terms. People are more than that.

But it IS fanservice. A game can exist without it. It doesn’t add nothing in the game and usually uses a lot of pandering. Even to sexual things.

neogeno

Indeed violence in games tend to be much more prevalent in western games than sexual entertainment. I imagine it would be because due to story reasons and the main characters goals, Violence is often set up to be necessary to reach them. If its a game about survival, the player must fight and possibly kill in order to survive. If its an ailen invasion, the player must take up the sword or gun to fight and kill the hostile alien invaders to save the world and so on and so fourth.

Its difficult to directly tie sexual entertainment to some great goal like saving the world because there aren’t any scenarios that would require it like how violence does. You’d never run into a situation where the world is in danger and all females present must rip off their clothing and jump in bikinis in order to thwart great evil. There is always some form of violence that necessary to reach the given goal.

Wtv

Not really. If the game is about survival, the player must…survive. And games that avoid kill a lot of things is really rare nowadays on the west. At least at the mainstream media.

But I think I understand. You want some kind of realism on games. I and a lot of players don’t really care about that. SK is silly and ridiculous and really over the top. And the fact that aside that, it actually takes it’s plot seryously is a good contrast.

What I want to say is…it doesn’t really matter if the thing is beliaveble or not if you don’t take the game TOO seriously. Like…yeah, if aliens invade the earth, it’s expected that you must fight it (actually, being realistic, it’s expected that you die, but anyway…). But if a game goes agains my expectations and make a different solution, and it’s really weird, it’ll probably looks to something with more personality to me. And if aside that, it has a solid script, even better. But then it will take out that ultraviolence that would have worked commercially and it will have to transform it in another kind of fanservice.

Of course that’s not the case with SK. They actually thought about the fanservice to sell before, and then built the game on it. Just like it usually works with violent games.

neogeno

Its not even realism that I’m looking for. I just believe that SK needed to only improve on their combat system to an equal or greater amount of their fan service for people to stop hounding on it about its over the top fanservice. It gets rid of the stigma of people looking at it as a “shallow game”. Fans know this isn’t true but to curious customers it could be a barrier.

I’m no marketing expert but IMO seeing an awesome combat system aided by a side of fanservice in a trailer is much more beneficial than seeing a ton of fanservice aided by a side of combat. (this doesn’t mean fanservice is axed, just not advertised as heavily)

Wtv

Usually Japan focus on the part that will get people attention on trailers…even in games with way less fanservice.

Did you watch the western trailers, though? XSeed said that they focused a lot more on the gameplay.

And about the gameplay, if you’re talking about it being too simple…well, it was a experimental game. It seems like they improved it a lot in Shinovi Versus…and those trailers for SK2 looks pretty good too.

But most people won’t throw their prejudice away, anyway, so…

Well, I was someone that hated sexual fanservice a lot, so…

neogeno

As I said earlier I ended up not following the game so heavily after the first few announcements of the series. I’ve only heard updates about it here and there. (most notably from that nasty UK article). I’ll take a look at xseeds trailers later and give it another shot.

Kayriss Wins

Besides the fanservice, Burst was a great game for me personally becauseof the story not the gameplay, the game play was okay at best but the story had me hooked, especially once I started Hebijo’s story mode those were some interesting pair of girls I gotta say.

Herok♞

Well I feel this is good news, it means that they won’t just bring anything over because they thinks people will enjoy the fanservice the game has. This means as long as the game stands on its own without the fanservice then it will be considered.

Sheyenne

That’s good because I love deep Characters, Game Play, and Good Story with my fanservice. Fanservice need to be just icing on the cake.

I kind of get it. Maybe they just don’t want to be “that company”. One fanservice centered series is good enough I guess.

Shippoyasha

To be fair, there’s many publishers that regularly put forth fanservice games. Also, Xseed’s claim to fame these days is their firm stance against censoring the games that they do work with. I don’t want to mention that ‘other’ company now because I don’t want to get all angry ranty right now.

bob

At first I thought NIS, but then I realized you were talking about Squeedoxer(square enix eidos deep silver).

Yan Zhao

I guess that means XSeed aint bringing Highsschool DxD or that To-Love-Ru game over, lol

revenent hell

I don’t mind fan service mostly as long as the game itself is fun, when it’s not the fan service just becomes irritating…

Tienron

smart move and i agree

Hinataharem

I dont get it. Out of the MANY game series Xseed publishes, people are hung up on Senran? One game series?

neogeno

“Effective marketing” is at play here.

Ryker

Their line up is going to be very Senran Kagura heavy in the near future. They’ve got Shinovi Vs. and Dekamori Senran Kagura coming up, SK2:B is probably around the corner. It just seems to be becoming their dominant series, and many people are starting to identify them with the series and fanservice in-general, much to the detriment of their image, possibly. I won’t lie and say I haven’t felt perturbed by the prospect.

Shippoyasha

XSeed is a Marvelous subsidiary. They have direct access to Senran and it’s not like Xseed isn’t localizing a lot of other games, even games falling in other company umbrellas in Japan. Let’s not spread misinformation now.

Ryker

I was operating under the assumption that people knew about the special circumstance with Xseed and the SK series.. I’ve followed them from their onset(been a fan since the beginning). I’m not sure what misinformation I’m spreading. — I was merely referring to the representation of the series soon becoming a dominant pillar for the company. I’m not too concerned with the logistics as to why, as it doesn’t change the fact. Akiba’s Trip’s localization, despite being satire for something most of Xseed’s buying-fanbase wasn’t accustomed to pre-SK is a result of Xseeds branching out(regardless of why it’s an issue of company logistics, i.e. them answering to a parent company). That’s how I feel about it, anyways.

There *is* quite a meaty line-up, though, so I try to focus on that as much as possible, although I don’t think it’d hurt too much if they could get some more traditional jrpgs in their line-up, with LoH being so far off.. The genre representation has certainly become more diverse(if not slanted to non-rpgs), and I plan to pick up a few of their upcoming games, but I’ve always been more of a rpg glutton. Hopefully the extremely unbearably long wait for LoH will pay off and they consider more traditional rpgs for localization.

Shippoyasha

I am a LoH fan too so we share the same goals ultimately.

Then again, this just is the frustrating part in how only Xseed can be trusted to import fanservicey titles with any trust by the gamers. If other devs were more trustworthy, it wouldn’t be such a big deal.

This is the way publishers should get in touch with their customers. It really shows that XSEED has a big heart and understanding to their fans and (loyal) customers :)

ShiShi

Hahah I’ve been wanting to ask them what they think about localizing senran kagura’s shooter sister “Bullet Girls”, but it seems that it might not get an English localization after all. If it does I can only hope NISA doesn’t do it. Criminal girls is going to be an unmitigated disaster.

Ziggy Wish

This good news to me, Xseed is going back to it more original roots of what make them a good localizing company, more games like The Last story, Brave story, and Ys titles, good solid RPGs.

Ryker

Can’t disagree with this., but Tom’s clarification makes this news sort of non news. They see a lot of value in Senran Kagura. I have an issue with a fundamental aspect of the series, so I can’t say I will ever be on the same page as Tom/Xseed, but basically I still suspect there will be plenty of fanservice games if they can somehow justify the other elements in the game. It ignores the fact that some people just don’t like it, but those games aren’t aimed at us to begin with.

Ziggy Wish

Yeah, I know what you mean. I applaud Xseed for going out there way to make a game like Akiba’s Trip more gender neutral with the added edition of the male undressed portraits But if you been a long time supporter of Xseed for a while since the PsP days and see them turning out localization that rely on Fanservice to differ from other games, and good solid JRPGs like they use to focus on. The increase of fanservice oriented localizations, that the company is producing of late is making this long time supporter, very disheartened. I don’t mind them going to get a different set of audiences that enjoy these types of games, and kudos to them. But when games like Trails in the sky is taking a long time to get produce, but two Senran games and a third one with a release time frame already, I can’t help to be extremely happy with the small tibit of news.

Ryker

Very much agreed on every single point. I really have nothing else to add. You wonderfully expressed how I feel, to the T.

They have a cool roster of games with light, limited, or no fanservice. Brandish looks like a competent roguelike. It’s not really my genre, but tons of people rave about it, so I’m going to give it a try. There’s Story of Seasons, which is basically just rebranded Harvest Moon due to Natsume owning the licence. If you liked New Beginnings, check it out. Tom keeps saying that Akiba’s trip is satire on fan-service, but it looks fan-servicey enough to be considered fanservice. I don’t understand the impression that because some people might not find it sexy that it’s not fanservice. It totes is. Corpse Party is a 16-bit anime horror game, that has limited fan service, which makes the grotesque nature of the game even more obscene. I think that if you can buy into the gore, the fan service won’t be too difficult to stomache. The Trails games are still a ways off, but as far as I know there is only bathhouse fanservice, but the cast is overly covered in towels to emphasize that it’s not for titillation, but for the character development. Those are the games on my radar, I’m sure there’s more.

Shippoyasha

Akiba’s Trip is more pure comedy than fanservicey though. Looking for pure fanservice kind of doesn’t work with the game, because it’s never the focus. The focus is beating the snot out of someone, Yakuza-series style. I actually came out of that series craving for fanservice instead. It really is more of a parody than anything.

Ryker

I can see the fanservice being an incentive to progress, even though it’s not the focus. I could also see how it wouldn’t sate the appetite of someone who’s in it for the fan service alone. In my defense, I’ve only seen a few trailers focusing on stripping your enemies and some card panning. I’ve no idea what’s the deal with the story or dialogue, as it hasn’t been the focus of the footage I’ve encountered.

Shippoyasha

Well, the focus of the games is largely to beat the snot out of all the unsavory types one can run into in Akihabara (in exaggerated, comical ways of course). Some of the visual hook are the sexy characters for sure, but it’s not really the gameplay hook from my experience. It’s most to humiliate and beat people up in ridiculous ways that’s its own reward really.

Tienron

it’s just too perverted i admire games that have women who embrace their sexually but this is literally just for the sake of the player not the characters of anything esle it’s fan-service, so i can understand x-seeds motive in not focusing of those type of games, while game play is good it’s just not for them.

the women in these games arent embracing their sexuality. just caressing straight males sexuality. So a woman embracing her sexuality means being everything a man would want her to have and allowing a guy to perv out? what does it mean for a man to embrace his sexuality in their opinion?

Josh A. Stevens

Katsuragi explores her sexuality.
And everyone else’s.
With her hands, usually.

I guess my point is to credit character development and empowerment of said characters is difficult when the producer is painting. tjem all as sexual objects or at least relying to heavily on them for the sake of, lets just be honest here, sex sells.

I shouldn’t really be commenting too much because I know I would never play this game simply for that fact.

if others are excited to play Senran Kagura 8: The Fappening, more power to them.

But, at least admit that this factor probably more than compensates for the success if the title…

Shippoyasha

Not really. There’s a lot of reasons to like the series. The action, the fanservice, the comedy and even the drama. The way people are so reductive in calling out fanservice as *only* fanservice is absurd. And nobody should give you a bone for saying that.

Ryker

I really hate to use a food analogy, but I’m almost mentally kaput. I really like hamburgers, but I can’t stand mayonnaise. Mayo is like Fanservice to me. Even if it’s lightly spread over a single bun in my hamburger, it ruins the whole thing for me. Mayo has that effect on some people. It’s a very valid reason for me not to eat a burger if it has mayo on it, and I don’t like it. If someone looks down on me for it, then it’s a personal issue.

Shippoyasha

Huh. You and I have that similarity at least. I’m not a mayo person unless it’s coleslaw.

That being said, I think the thing is that you seem to use a lot of borderline incendiary descriptors for the more risque stuff I am into. Heaven forbid we get into ACTUAL eroge, because I’m pretty sure that’d be far beyond your radar while I’m still okay with porn/gore types of games depending on my mood.

I keep hearing ‘childish’, ‘immature’ and ‘exploitation’ and whatnot, and I personally can’t help but roll my eyes at it, because they can be fun in their own devices within the absurdity of some games sometimes. I mean some of my favorite games are likely your favorites too. Stuff like Child of LIght, Witcher, Mass Effect, Professor Layton and Ace Attorney are some of the definite favorites of the past 5, 6 years. But I also love stuff like Dead or Alive, erotic dating sims (even yaoi and boys love stuff is a lot of fun for me as well) and fanservicey games.

The thing with a lot of fanservicey games these days is that get more press about the ‘absurdity’ of them than the fun factor or the niche nature of them I feel. I don’t think the whole ‘exploitation’ factor really works to me, considering the reason why I am into them to begin with is because they are so outrageous and out there, not because they are kosher or would pass in the real world.

That is the whole point of appreciating some of the crazier depictions in gaming media for me. Also considering that the sexual niche almost doesn’t exist at all in marketed western games, people who are into fanservice has to scrounge out the few games that has any budget coming out of Japan. A lot of fanservice stuff being featured these days is because the handheld market is the only thing surviving these days, and the niche developers like Marvelous are the top dogs, not like Konami, Capcom and others.

I just feel they get too much of a flack because they are suddenly in the forefront. Which I’m happy for personally but I can see why people who are extremely against fanservice would not see it that way.

That being said, even though you are a total stranger, I just can’t stomach the constant barrage of negative connotations with the ecchi entertainment I keep hearing. I get it that you personally likely will never get over it. That’s fine. I’m just so sick and tired of the demonization coming from people who will never give these games the chance. Imagine your favorite genre and some outsider keeps raining negative descriptors and even saying it has morally negative implications like you don’t have the proper filter to enjoy the stuff you like. Again, I don’t really care to ‘convert’ anyone into liking riskier content. I just wish there’s some sense of mutual respect for those who can enjoy something in a healthy manner.

ShadowDivz

I actually read every word in that post.
And all i can do, is wipe away a tear and applaud.

Some games allow for female gamers to ‘perv out’ with male hunks too. That’s fine too. All the options are good. Not everything has to be something palatable for all audiences. That is the point of niche sexual games.

Göran Isacson

Man, this thread is wild. Having not played Senran Kagura, I always find myself amused by how seriously people take it- detractors as well as defenders. I see so many people both be super offended by it while defending THEIR kind of fanservice (violence or nostalgia inducing callbacks and so on) while people who defend it always say others shouldn’t take it so seriously… while they themselves take it SUPERSERIOUSLY and spend pages defending it’s artistic merit.

All I see when I look at it is a game that no one would miss were it gone or never existed in the first place. From all the things I’ve read about it, it does nothing new or revolutionary- it just provides tits and ass in a functional brawler game engine. Yet people either speak of it as if it has the number of the beast tattooed on it’s forehead, or as if it’s the shining light of pure Nihon glory keeping the dirty wave of western filth from their poor, worn kokoros.

And yet, all I see is tits and decent fightan. And tits and decent fightan, my friends, is hardly a unique selling point.

Granted it practically only fires up discussion HERE since so few other sites ever seem to talk about it, so it may just be I’m getting a hella skewed perception of it’s impact on gaming as a whole. There may be tons of other sites where people just shoulder-shrug at it and go about their days.

without the upskirts and silicone implants for each character, it might not get as much attention. I imagine thw first print if part 3 will come with Daiso temp boobs

MoriyaMug

I hate to bring a touch of reality into a knee-jerk reaction, but implants don’t move. Not that I’m defending the games; I find the constant perviness rather tiresome (particularly when dealing with underage girls). But still… if it jiggles, it ain’t saline or silicone.

Edgar Nieves

Wow so may comments. Remember people play it safe and…

Göran Isacson

But look at their poor, spindly little limbs. They look so hungry, ONE little breadcrumb tossed their way surely can’t hurt…

ok, well hyper anime implants? I find it funny that usually men know more about implants than women do. Technically lest just say implants can, depending on prior circumstance. .. I hope I dont get banned for that.

But senran cans must have something! Or else we’d see more saginess and back problems in the sequels.

The same sites where people discuss all day about stupid console wars and such?

It’s the internet, you know. People discuss about useless things all the time.

Göran Isacson

Indeed. But I specifically want the people HERE to take a long, hard look at themselves, and sometimes the best way to do that is through comparisons that, as you say, are flawed since other sites make much ballyhoo about silly, inconsequential stuff. But not THIS specific type of silly, inconsequential stuff. Sometimes, you just gotta forego including every possible scenario and “what if” to make people see their own dirty laundry, instead of just going “but OTHER people’s laundry smells funky too so who cares if my underwear are slowly developing intelligent bacterial cultures”.

Ryker

I always thought the people who analyzed other people who vehemently discussed inconsequential things were more extreme than the former. It’s pretty hardcore and a whole new level of inconsequential as it normally doesn’t succeed at making anyone any less impassioned about the subject matter they care about. It’s futile!

Göran Isacson

That is, unfortunately, true. Now I’m usually pretty good at staying out of these discussions, but when threads about Senran Kagura so often reaches these post counts (200 + and counting) and the attitudes around it spill out into other areas and seems to spread this sort of attitude that you’re a rebel against some kind of machine for LIKING these games, well… I guess I’s had all I’s can stand, and had to get involved somehow.

Shippoyasha

I’ll ramp down my language a bit and I’ll just say that I think a lot of this is taken the wrong way. Senran fans are a chill fangroup and I don’t want to represent it as an angry mouthpiece in Siliconera. Rest assured, being an angry rebel is not the point. Just that in this topic alone, I can see why fans of fanservice feel like they are being pushed down in the context of Tom coming right out and saying what he did (even though apparently his original intent was different from the headline itself).

That’s okay~. He is great at it, huh? It is also impressive that he doesn’t develop an ego!

Göran Isacson

I’ma try not to, fellow Guest. After all, there is plenty little reason to develop an ego JUST because I can write long rants on the internet. People who develop pride in such things are the exact kind of clientele I’m trying to adress in the original post, after all.

Though odds are I will keep my nose out of fanservice threads in the future. There’s just no chill here- no ability to take a step back and ascertain whether your passion is really reasonable. It’s a real “Forget it Jake, It’s Senran Kagura” situation.

Shippoyasha

Who says ‘nobody’ will miss games if they’re gone?

Why are comments like that considered kosher here?

I mean, I respect your opinion on a lot of things, Goran, but that’s really beyond the pale for you to say that nobody would miss games that you yourself are not interested in. Get the problem there? Why can’t people defend the games they love and instead they get berated like they are wrong to defend them? . So much for your ‘neutral’ stance there buddy.

Göran Isacson

Welp, if I am to speak from the heart… Senran Kagura is a niche product for a niche sort of fan. I get why it has those fans- it’s completely honest and upfront about what it is and what it does to attract consumers. It is very good at hooking itself into the reptile brain of a specific clientele, at the cost of revulsing those whose reptile brains are wired otherwise. There’s a place for products like those, and there is always a set of fans that will miss anything when it’s gone. But without Mario, we may not have the 2D mascot explosion. Without Final Fantasy, we may not have RPG’s as they are today. Without SF2, perhaps no fighting games.

The mechanics of Senran Kagura does nothing unique- even the reviews in it’s favor admits this. Granted, those positive reviews also point out that it does what it does solidly enough, and that may well be the case. I’ve seen some videos, and the fighting system appears to do visual feedback well and pair it with a functional brawling system

But the passion, Duke. The passion with which it’s defended with makes it sound like it is so much more than that. But when so many reviews, EVEN THE ONES WHO ARE POSITIVE, admit that it does nothing new or unique? When the foremost factor in it’s marketing is fanservice? Can I truly be blamed for my conclusion that this is a game that lives and dies by fanservice and controversy, rather than it’s merits as a videogame?

You can only argue in favor of a product like that for so long and in so many ways, before you sound like a messiah preaching the world’s least necessary religion and grasping at straws. When I look at this thread, I see a clientele so dedicated to digging their feet in and protect their game against the outside world like a gang of Spartan hedgehogs, that they have lost all sense of perspective, proportion and reason.

Yes, Shippo. YOU would miss it if you’re gone. Perhaps I should have been more specific. Perhaps I should have written “that the vast majority won’t miss it if it’s gone”. And as someone who hasn’t played the game I am not the one to judge it’s actual gameplay merits. But I sure can put myself in judgment over the nature and tone of these arguments, that I’ve heard so many times before. And when someone is so offended by the mere assessment that no one would miss this were it gone they actually wonder if comments like those are “kosher”? I say the arguments are lacking.

Shippoyasha

That’s the thing. You are giving reviews too much credit. The ‘mainstream’ reviews that are just in it to mock Japanese niche (especially the sexual kind) for the clicks and laughs. They are not even a proper look into why fans are into it.

The reason why fans defend it is because people want to actually destroy this franchise, say that the fans/creators are MORALLY bad people, and what are we supposed to do? Give those people a bone saying theyr’e right when they will never even give the game a fair chance due to their personal bias against it? You are blaming the wrong people for why there’s drama about it. The fans are in peace just enjoying a relaxing game (nobody, literally nobody said it was a genre redefining game. Nobody. It’s just a fun, cozy little series. I think you are interjecting that here, not the ‘fans’). The game’s appeal believe it or not, is a lot more tame than it looks. It’s far more moe and cutesy comedy and a lot more low key and character centric than fanservice alone. It’s one of those times where you can’t judge a book by its cover. I just find it ridiculous people judge something just because they trust their initial judgment. Especially if it’s heavily biased against it.

Also, why is the status of a game being ‘game changer’ or ‘the majority’ matter? This IS a niche, right? So why can’t the niche stay a niche and be treated as niche instead of being dragged out into town square like this? And Mario? Seriously, who is creating that narrative? You, Goran. you did.

If I was the only person in the world defending this game, I don’t care. I’m not in it to make friends over it or say anyone has to even like it. This is the kind of BS artists keep dealing with, like art has to be something always catering to everyone or that it’s illegitimate. We are defensive because we’re under attack 24/7. If nobody stands up for it and it gets banned, then you and a lot of people ‘don’t care’. Yeah, good for you guys who didn’t ‘care’ when it’s gone, but ‘care’ when it’s there. Don’t play the neutral attitude there. You aren’t being neutral or fair about it at all. That coy attitude isn’t fooling anyone.

If you don’t like it or don’t see the big deal is, that’s fine. Nobody even said it’s the game of the century. You are basically crafting that narrative out of thin air. But if you actually think it’s okay for it to be shamed out of existence and people should be okay with that, people rightfully should be repelled by such a thought. If you don’t like something, fine. Not everything has to be made for you. The internet may be there at your convenience, but it doesn’t mean the games are. Just click something else if you want. Nobody is saying you need to like something you don’t.

Yeah yeah. But you don’t have to like something to give your opinion on it. My opinion seems fair as it seems this game would not be nearly as successful without 3D boobs. Of course my opinion is unfounded until Senran boy no fantasy is released. But even if that’s the case, and boobs arent the selling point, why would i jump on board when there’s other average titles that do better as a game. I don’t know its just a matter of opinions and how I may have been raised, but I don’t need over sexualized content poured a top all of my entertainment media.

Shippoyasha

That’s kind of the unfortunate thing about judging something on the outside though. The thing is that the boobs are just one of the elements that is charming about the game. And the sexual nature isn’t even really that overt at that. It’s just silly costume destruction unless you really make it more lewd with character customization.

Also, believe it or not, character depth and drama/comedy is really the centerpiece of this series. Not just the sexual designs. The designs may have outward appeal, but the characters are really well realized. And yeah, some action games may be more robust action titles than Senran. But very few action games have its character charm. Again, not just with the character art/design. And that’s not something someone can get from a casual glance.

Ryker

Contrary to how it may seem, I don’t think the number of the beast is tatoo’ed onto Senran Kagura fans foreheads. I tend to go on long tangents, it’s in my nature, and I could probably benefit from being more succinct, but I like to touch every base. I honestly just get caught up defending my intentions most of the time, rather than people accepting that I just don’t like fanservice as much as them, and leaving it at that.

Josh A. Stevens

I’m glad XSEED Games have said this, because it really drills in a point I’ve been trying to make for months – Senran Kagura is more than the life and hometown; it’s a solid game with a touching story and a franchise that keeps on jumping over hurdles to improve itself with each new instalment.

I’m still waiting for people to get up in arms about the brutally violent and gory games shown off by AAA developers at E3 this year by calling for boycotts and writing opinion pieces about how they’re destroying the industry. I guess an “anime game” by a smaller publisher is just an easier target?

I also don’t get why Nintendo fans in particular aren’t having online shouting matches about the likes of Bayonetta 2 or Devil’s Third, but magazines bearing the “Official Nintendo” name are more than happy to slate a third party game. Perhaps it’s simply because the game isn’t being published by Nintendo?

You can blame x seed for the way they advertize their games.
If you’re going to stuff 90% of your trailers with boob bouncing and lustful poses you shouldn’t expect much from the people who shy away from it. Bayonetta’s trailers are action filled with a split second of fanservice there is virtually none in the e3 trailer this is entirely different from making fanservice your selling point.

Those are also both third party games there is no biased to be had.

Josh A. Stevens

Sure, from a developer standpoint, Bayonetta 2 and Devil’s Third are third party. However, they’re distributed by Nintendo and as such, have the company’s logo on the boxes.

wyrdwad

We’re just being honest with our trailers. The Senran Kagura games have a LOT of fanservice in them, and if you’re uncomfortable with that, they’re probably not the games for you.

My point is that people seem to assume any focus on fanservice = a poor game, and that’s simply not true. Senran Kagura definitely wears its fanservice on its lack of sleeves, but that doesn’t mean the rest of the game isn’t fantastic. And any game that’s able to balance great gameplay, great story and great characters with great tracts of land is a great game in my book. ;)

Ryker

Because Bayonetta is witty, and she’s *in* on the joke. She was written in such a manner than shes a fully developed character, in more ways than one, that has taken control of her sexuality.The game doesnt go out of its way to make Bayonetta the oblivious victim of upskirt panty shots, nor are her breasts given so much attention and free range that they veer off into unrealistic/laughable territory and act as autonomous seperate entities with minds of their own, strapped to her chest. The sexiness of Bayonetta can’t be denied, but it’s actually her brain and conviction that I’m most attracted to.

As Devin said, it could also be the marketing, although watching Let’s Plays of Senran Kagura was enough for me to know that despite the trailers showing a disproportionate amount fanservice to gameplay, it was still too much and to such a degree that it wasn’t personally for me.

Shippoyasha

Come now. Almost every fan who were interested in Senran Kagura had a decent amount of research into it. Let’s not forget that the games weren’t localized for a year and a half. It was already there in Japan with their own ad campaigns, people talking about it and let’s plays everywhere on Youtube. Let’s not put so much stock into silly marketing that had basically no input into the fandom. If anything, fans laughed the trailers as silly.

Ryker

Go check out some of the youtube trailer commentary. Many people were first acquainted with the series through those silly trailers. The comments that were posted were far less civil and understanding, but more so gut reactions of the wtf nature. I’m sure quite a few of those people never looked at the series again.

Shippoyasha

I suppose so. Then again, Youtube can be kind of.. pedestrian like that I suppose. It’s a place where people often post witty quips. Something I am guilty of as well, if you ever see my posts in some Youtube videos.

buddyluv324

This is the internet. Anything could be said about anything people put out there. Comments in general weather it’ll be youtube, 4chan, or even here you’re going to get a crazy variety of comments regardless of whatever content is shown. You sorta just have to swim through it all.

Josh A. Stevens

And you’re suggesting that the girls in Senran Kagura aren’t written to be fully developed characters?
Also, in regards to being in on the joke, if you talk to the characters outside of the main missions, they tend to make quite a fair few jabs at the player, knowing exactly what we’re doing xD.

Ryker

They were bound to notice eventually…:)

Dystopiq

It has standard gameplay. It’s nothing new or amazing.

James Hewitson

Tbh I really don’t care, seeing most Westerners don’t understand and are too culturally ignorant/closed minded to accept different sexuality views. It’s a cultural thing and will sadly continue to be this way. Whatever I will import what I like without giving a crap what people in my culture think :-P

Velen (Not WoW)

That most, is mostly people from older generations who have never learned to be accepting.

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