I didn't meant your are retard, i said only that maybe it's time to let people chose...but yes, you are a winner... which represents contraction of windows and consumer...

And nothing against you either. You are one of "The Man" types of people that have mastered linux. For me (and probably the majority of mp3car users) on the other hand, how the hell do you compile a kernel? Beats me.

I applaud anyone that throws linux in their car... it's definitely not for me!

Totally disagree. I've been running a CarPC for probably 4 years now. My windows XP has never corrupted... People always say that linux is so much better. How does it better protect against bumpy roads? It has just as much of a failure rate as windows in this situation I bet.

Umm.. Linux doesn't make your harddrive better protected. Who said that Linux does this? It is better for other reasons. Mainly, not having to have a bloated an expensive P.O.S running in your car. Also, it is open source, so in my case it was very easy to get it to work with my custom hardware.

Originally Posted by Tidder

What happens when your linux goofs? Can you throw in your linux cd and do a repair?? Nope, lol, not that easy... esp for someone that's never/hardly ever used linux.

Actually, this is exactly what I do. I throw in a linux live cd and do the repair. In fact, its much better than a windows repair because you can actually chroot into the environment and use it as if nothing happened (basically).

Originally Posted by Tidder

If you grow up with it, or take the time/classes to learn it, yeah no prob. But if you're just jumping into it with no prior experience, windows mo betta.

Um, maybe for you. Lets say you have someone who has been using MacOSX for a while... Linux would actually be more natural to them than Windows. I can tell you don't know what your talking about given your Microsoft-centric perspective.
I'm assuming that anyone who is willing to do Linux (and voted for Linux) either knows it or wants to learn it. So, "I don't know how to do it in Linux" is not a reason why Windows is better.

Originally Posted by Tidder

Can you build a linux package that will load on almost every computer out there with little or NO driver searching? And if you do have to find drivers, do they install with ease... no. Linux is NOT EASY to use. Why is Windows the most widely used operating system when Linux is even free?? EASE OF USE and program support. Plain and simple.

Yes and no. I can build a linux package that will load on almost every computer out there with Java or Python. Could you make a Linux program that runs on Windows computers with no problem? No? Then it seems like this is Windows' problem as much as it is Linux's. Can you make any programs? As far as searching for drivers, you don't have to. Just type "make menuconfig" and then select what drivers you want.
"Linux is NOT EASY to use." What??? After a year of using Linux I find Windows harder to use. Perhaps the correct thing to say was "Linux has a steep learning curve for people who are dependant on Windows and do not like change."
Why is Windows the most widely used OS? Ease of use.... that is debatable. It IS TRUE that Linux is harder to install. But after that it is about as easy to use. Heck, even a Gentoo installation is easy once you've done it 3 or more times. Windows has been around longer than X11 (In the consumer market) and Windows has a habit of creating their own standards so software becomes harder to port. Your average user considers a computer to be an appliance like a toaster or Microwave. To these kinds of users Windows is better fitted because they just want to know how to do Email, Net, etc.. they don't care about writing custom system loggers or tuning their harddrives.

Originally Posted by Tidder

Here's a challenge. Take your linux. Have a buddy take Windows XP. Give them both a Dexxa webcam. Who can have it working first? What's that? Windows XP already has drivers for it?? Wow, that was faster than I thought...

OK. I would just have to install QCE. Your logic baffles me. Why would I want to have support for all sorts of softwre and hardware by default? I would much rather select exactly what is in my system.

SO, Original Poster. Please consider Tidder's comments with a grain of salt. He has been using Windows for Over 4 years and apparently has little to no Linux experience. Biased? Probably. And besides, Tux is so much cooler than the Windows logo or that f**king paper clip.

Umm.. Linux doesn't make your harddrive better protected. Who said that Linux does this? It is better for other reasons. Mainly, not having to have a bloated an expensive P.O.S running in your car. Also, it is open source, so in my case it was very easy to get it to work with my custom hardware.

No, apparently you weren't following along. Somewhere someone along the way said that linux is more stable in the car. Said something about windows BSOD. You missed it I guess.

Originally Posted by TheLlama

Actually, this is exactly what I do. I throw in a linux live cd and do the repair. In fact, its much better than a windows repair because you can actually chroot into the environment and use it as if nothing happened (basically).

(basically) is the key there. Once I'm finished with a windows repair, it works just the same as before it crashed, I'd say 9 times out of 10. Plus, it's AUTOMATED...

Originally Posted by TheLlama

Lets say you have someone who has been using MacOSX for a while... Linux would actually be more natural to them than Windows.

Hmm... No kidding it'd be more natural, they're closer related. MacOSX is unix. BSD if I remember correctly.

Originally Posted by TheLlama

I can tell you don't know what your talking about given your Microsoft-centric perspective.

You don't even know what operating system experience I've had, how can you make that assumption?

Originally Posted by TheLlama

I can build a linux package that will load on almost every computer out there with Java or Python. Could you make a Linux program that runs on Windows computers with no problem? No? Then it seems like this is Windows' problem as much as it is Linux's. Can you make any programs?

Dunno, does VB programming count? I can make a program with that. Matter of fact, I wrote my own frontend for my carPC. Who said anything about crossing platforms... now you're just trying to find reasons to argue.

Originally Posted by TheLlama

"Linux is NOT EASY to use." What??? After a year of using Linux I find Windows harder to use. Perhaps the correct thing to say was "Linux has a steep learning curve for people who are dependant on Windows and do not like change."

No, linux is hard to use. Take someone that grew up on DOS, and then windows, and then introduce them to linux. Yeah, steep learning curve, true. So much is different. That's what makes it hard to use. I've tried many different distros of linux, but I really don't have the time to learn how to load programs and **** like that, and how to recognize what package will work with my distro... believe me, I've tried. I was building a PVR a year or so back, and wanted to use uhh... MythTV? I think that's what it was. I worked on it for days and days. Gave up. Decided to go with windows, even though that's not really what I wanted. Had it up and running in about 3 hours, recording TV shows.

Originally Posted by TheLlama

OK. I would just have to install QCE. Your logic baffles me. Why would I want to have support for all sorts of softwre and hardware by default? I would much rather select exactly what is in my system.

That's exactly my point. You'd have to find and load something extra, that was probably just written by some guy. Anyway, you can do the same with windows, you can select exactly what you want and don't want. Ever used nLite? With that, you can remove anything from windows you don't want. Linux doesn't even start out with webcam support. That's just an example. At least with windows, the option is there to begin with, which you can remove later.

Originally Posted by TheLlama

SO, Original Poster. Please consider Tidder's comments with a grain of salt. He has been using Windows for Over 4 years and apparently has little to no Linux experience. Biased? Probably..

I've been using windows and linux both. I've built a bunch of linux routers for a wireless internet company here in town, and configured and tried to troubleshoot. I have plenty of linux experience, and I always try the newest versions I find. Loading linux is probably the easiest part. Ever try to make a winmodem work in linux? How about windows? Whua.. it just works? crazy...

But it's always gonna come back to the arguement of linux vs. microsoft. Nobody wins. They both have good and bad points. The day that a vb app will run natively on linux is the day I'll make the permanent switch.

really it comes down to gps software. I am a mac user - stable suckers that run on BSD. Problem is right now GPS software doesnt exist for the native enviornment. So to linux or windows you still have the same problem. Yes you can do wine or similar, but the integration is just not as smooth. Maybe in a year or so, there will be a LiveCD of a carPc software. That would be awsome, but its not there yet. So for right now, look at windows.

Well, I am sort of comfortable working with both Linux and Windows. For carPC, I have to go with windows.
Why? Software. There are many GPS apps that available to Windows but not Linux.

that's true but it's not enough to quit and chose the ease way
there's navigator from mapfactor which works pretty good and which is more accurate than a lot of other gps apps.

Originally Posted by MatrixPC

If you get BSOD on Windows while in GPS, the system really screw. I mean if you setup/config it right at the first place, there is NO way you get BSOD.

If you have aboard a way to communicate with the internet then it's a wide opened door for troubles.
The same when you, in an usual act simply plug your USB key, drop a CD to play music...they are so much virii in the wild, some are serious some not and they are easy trapped with antivirus software...but the one which will be able to cross this fence will be able to make major destruction on disk and it'll be probably more than a simple BSOD.

Originally Posted by MatrixPC

But if you do, it's time to trouble shoot and replace hardware. It's much easier to get software/hardware/driver for windows machine than linux.

Again this depends of what you chosed as hardware

Originally Posted by MatrixPC

With desktop environment it a totally different story. I manage to get BSOD (XP SP2)on my desktop several times, but never on carPC setup.

So this is the demonstration of what i was talking about before...

Originally Posted by MatrixPC

BTW, lately, I been using SuSE 10 on my old desktop machine for surfing and simple stuff and convert my other desktop to a HTPC.

really it comes down to gps software. I am a mac user - stable suckers that run on BSD. Problem is right now GPS software doesnt exist for the native enviornment.

You are wrong google => mapfactor navigator 4

Originally Posted by mccdeuce

So to linux or windows you still have the same problem. Yes you can do wine or similar, but the integration is just not as smooth. Maybe in a year or so, there will be a LiveCD of a carPc software. That would be awsome, but its not there yet. So for right now, look at windows.

wine is a nice effort but just like many people i prefer to stay with native linux.

Either way, it just comes down to what you really want. People can give you their opinion all day long. Decide what works for you. If you go off what others say, you'll just be stuck with someone else's idea, and you'll hate it.

I'm friends with a linux consultant, and so as I said earlier, I'll keep my main arse-is-on-fire rig on XP (GAMING on Linux....eeeeh no), carPC too, jsut for ease of integration, but I'll pop my laptop on Ubuntu...just to learn

No, apparently you weren't following along. Somewhere someone along the way said that linux is more stable in the car. Said something about windows BSOD. You missed it I guess.

No, I read it. Stable doesn't mean the harddrive doesn't suffer from physical damage though. We are talking about stuff like the way the system organizes running programs and the way it sets up fairly strong permissions on all files and processes. How well it can prevent and recover from errors, etc.

Originally Posted by Tidder

You don't even know what operating system experience I've had, how can you make that assumption?

I appoligize.

Originally Posted by Tidder

Who said anything about crossing platforms... now you're just trying to find reasons to argue.

Nope, you asked "Can you build a linux package that will load on almost every computer out there with little or NO driver searching?" And I replied with a sound "Yes"

Originally Posted by Tidder

No, linux is hard to use. Take someone that grew up on DOS, and then windows, and then introduce them to linux. Yeah, steep learning curve, true. So much is different. That's what makes it hard to use.

I agree, I was in the same boat. Started using dos back in the MS-DOS 3.2 days and then Windows 3.0 and up. It requires relearning almost everything you know about your system. However, your argument has no bearing because you are also saying that Windows is hard to use for someone who grew up on Linux. This isn't an argument as much as a common: "Operating Systems are hard to learn"

Originally Posted by Tidder

I've tried many different distros of linux, but I really don't have the time to learn how to load programs and **** like that, and how to recognize what package will work with my distro... believe me, I've tried. I was building a PVR a year or so back, and wanted to use uhh... MythTV? I think that's what it was. I worked on it for days and days. Gave up. Decided to go with windows, even though that's not really what I wanted. Had it up and running in about 3 hours, recording TV shows.

Again, this is all from personal experience. This isn't a problem with Linux this is a problem with your exposure to it. Also, you don't have to worry about package compatablity with distros that feature a package manager such as Debian or Gentoo.

Originally Posted by Tidder

That's exactly my point. You'd have to find and load something extra, that was probably just written by some guy. Anyway, you can do the same with windows, you can select exactly what you want and don't want. Ever used nLite? With that, you can remove anything from windows you don't want. Linux doesn't even start out with webcam support.

Again, you contradicted yourself. You are complaining about having to load webcam software for an aftermarket piece of equipment. However, you are not upset about having to install nLite to get your OS to a trim state. BTW, nLite was "probably just written by some guy" too. Want me to list things many distros provide that windows doesn't by default? A C++ compiler, A debugger, A professional-es-que photo editor, Office Suite, VIM, emacs, Mathematics plotter. Educational games, ssh server, ssh client, PDF viewer, a massively powerful command prompt, better security. Can you move all mp3 files modified after 10-3-1999 by "Pink Floyd" and "Primus" that do not contain the word "The" but contain at least one number to another directory with one command? Or do you have to do several Searches and a ton of point and clicking and drag and dropping? I know it is a far fetched example, but I've found myself doing things like this more than you may expect.

Originally Posted by Tidder

I've been using windows and linux both. I've built a bunch of linux routers for a wireless internet company here in town, and configured and tried to troubleshoot. I have plenty of linux experience, and I always try the newest versions I find. Loading linux is probably the easiest part. Ever try to make a winmodem work in linux? How about windows? Whua.. it just works? crazy...

Cool, I'm glad that you've found some places where you enjoy Linux. Ever wonder why they call it a WINmodem? It is DESIGNED to work only in Windows. It contains a bare minimal hardware implementation of a modem. It's basically just a small soundcard and a tone generator. Instead, the driver does most of the work of receiving and sending signals. That is why they run so bad. I went to clean up someone's computer once and it was a PII or PIII with a winmodem and accelerated dialup. The computer was doing so much work emulating a modem and compressing/deflating the accelerated signal that his computer had few cycles left for the browser. Anyways the linmodem project (www.linmodems.org) is apparently gaining support of several winmodem chipsets. I would barely consider this an issue. For the reason I listed above, you should just use a regular modem. They are cheap as dirt anyways.

Originally Posted by Tidder

But it's always gonna come back to the arguement of linux vs. microsoft. Nobody wins. They both have good and bad points. The day that a vb app will run natively on linux is the day I'll make the permanent switch.

Thats for sure. Check out the Mono project. They have been making great progress on the .NET implementation for Linux. (Run managed VB.net, C++.net and C#.net programs on Linux). And I'm not fighting BTW, I just think the O.P. deserves to hear both arguments.