The only problem I have with the 360 is there might be a moments hesitation before pulling the trigger. I know it is going to really hurt. I'd rather shoot the S&W 500. The 360 is so light that the recoil is just brutal.

Trigger "flinch" can be a problem. practice will over come. Maybe you should consider 38 special P+ loads to shoot for a while. Worst kicking hand gun I ever shoot was a 454 that was not ported. Its a real thumper. Most "uncomfortable" was a 18oz 44 specail bull dog. Recoil is very sharp. S&W makes a compact 44mag out of something called skandium that weights about 20oz. I would take a pass on shooting it with a 44mag load.

Again, you are right that the semi-autos will jam. However, I don't know of a revolver that will carry 17 rounds of 9mm. Before you answer, you are right: only one shot well placed will do the trick.

Yes my view is if you cannot "sort it out" in a few shots you are poor short or have wrong gun and ammo. Each extra round you spray out of that 17 round clip increases the odds that you will hit someone or something that was not you intended target.

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--------------------------------------Ham since 1969.... Old School 20 WPM Extra

The xd subcompact 40 cal.. I have shot 7 boxes of ammo through this gun since purchasing last summer not one jam.. Also got the license /permit to carry concealed . I can not find ammo for this gun locally. I should not be forced to go online and let the goverment know what I am purchasing.. What are the news agencies talking about background checks there are already background checks.. Enforce the laws that are curently on the books . We as a society do not need more laws just enforce correctly the one currently on the books...Just saying... Keeping it real... Oh by the way I hate the saying just saying and keeping it real just thought I would try it one time not I feel stupid... Just saying..... Take Care and be safe...73s

1- Government (1.5 BILLION rounds) No palatable explanation why 70,000 government agents require an average of 1,600 rounds of ammo a year)

2 - Military. No explanation needed here.

3 - Law Enforcement (all branches)

4 - Civilian

So you can see who's sucking hind tit here!

Consequently, hoarding is rampant. As for why .22s are in such short supply..... it's a simple question of where the brass, powder and lead is needed..... .223, 9mm, 10mm, .40 and on down the line......which is driven by the previously mentioned demand.

Every ammo manufacturer in the country is operating 24/7 to fill orders. Imported ammo is at a historical high.

During the past 6 months I have been told by EVERY gun store owner that I know; EVERY Wal-mart sporting goods clerk that I've talked to, that "Barrack Obama has been the greatest gun and ammo salesman they have ever had!"

Predictions that I have read indicate a loosening of demand will happen this fall. I don't believe this because the still hungry #4 Civilians will need to get caught up and will need to satisfy the fear of having this not ever happening to them again.

This is exactly the reason behind the shortages. Homeland Security has contracted with the major ammo manufacturers for almost all of their production. They are even buying ammunition through other agencies like the National Weather Service, National Institutes of Health, Housing and Urban Devrlopment, and the IRS. The DHS is also buying .22 cal for training purposes (that is the official word anyway) and every other caliber. Now why in the world would the Federal Government be buying 32 caliber? Why would they buy 380 and 38 special? The standard issue for all federal officers is either 9mm or Smith&Wesson .40 cal, both of which are in very short supply on the civilian market and very expensive if you can find them.

Just like the ATC delays attributed to furloghs, the ammunition shortage is a manufactured way to bring about back door gun control.

In this day and age of well armed drug dealers/distributors, nothing makes you feel more vulnerable than no cover and very limited ammo! Certainly no place for wheelguns! (Revolvers and speed loaders)

I would be more comfortable with decent wheel gun in a 357, 41 or 44 mag any day over a 9mm or 40 with a big clip. (nice thing about 357 is it can shoot 38's and a 44mag shoot 44 specials, 44 Russian and 44 Schofeilds to) Particularly when you get to 41 and 44magnums barriers you can hide behind for auto-loader will be defeated by magnums and if your target has body armor if that mag does not penetrate it it will hit them so hard they will be out of action from impact of hit. The new 327magnum is a excellent carry round in wheel gun. It has excellent accuracy, very high velocities and 357mag energy levels with reduced recoil. (it will also shoot 32 HR mag and 32 colt) Nice thing about higher velocities is that they shoot flatter and make hits at 50 yard and more easy in a accurate gun. Few realize that a good magnum wheel gun in good hands is effective well beyond 100 yards. Well beyond dependable effective range of the high capacity autos. If you ever are in your drug gang shoot out, you want a superior hand gun not a equal and the sound of a big magnum going off is intimidating too. If I needed more it would be a pump shotgun with buckshot, not a gun that shoots maneuvering round, as it is VERY effective on man and beast.

As a foot note the secret service and some other key agencies use a 357sig round as a compromise as it provide 357mag velocity, range, accuracy and stopping power in a auto loader pistol.

I knew a guy having a big several hundred pound hog roast many years ago and wanted to show off his 45 autoloader too. Shot it between eyes and close range and it went down instantly. Much to his surprise it got back up several seconds later really pissed off and running wild. They stopped it with one shot from a 30-30 after a few more 45 rounds did not work. When they dressed it out they found that the low velocity 45 round had turned/stopped on thick skull. True story.

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--------------------------------------Ham since 1969.... Old School 20 WPM Extra

This is exactly the reason behind the shortages. Homeland Security has contracted with the major ammo manufacturers for almost all of their production. They are even buying ammunition through other agencies like the National Weather Service, National Institutes of Health, Housing and Urban Devrlopment, and the IRS. The DHS is also buying .22 cal for training purposes (that is the official word anyway) and every other caliber. Now why in the world would the Federal Government be buying 32 caliber? Why would they buy 380 and 38 special? The standard issue for all federal officers is either 9mm or Smith&Wesson .40 cal, both of which are in very short supply on the civilian market and very expensive if you can find them.

Just like the ATC delays attributed to furloghs, the ammunition shortage is a manufactured way to bring about back door gun control.

Do you believe donkeys fly too? Did DHS "contract" with people across US you come into ammo stores with shopping carts and spend 1000's on ammo? No. It is BS stories like this above that gets the easily swayed to buy into it and panic buy while gun makers and ammo manufactures laugh all the way to the bank.

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--------------------------------------Ham since 1969.... Old School 20 WPM Extra

Trigger "flinch" can be a problem. practice will over come. Maybe you should consider 38 special P+ loads to shoot for a while. Worst kicking hand gun I ever shoot was a 454 that was not ported. Its a real thumper. Most "uncomfortable" was a 18oz 44 specail bull dog. Recoil is very sharp. S&W makes a compact 44mag out of something called skandium that weights about 20oz. I would take a pass on shooting it with a 44mag load.

Practice won't overcome when it is painful, it just makes it worse. You are referring to the S&W 329PD with Scandium Alloy Frame/Titanium Alloy Cylinder. It isn't nearly as bad to shoot as the 360 because there is more contact with your hand. To make matters worse on the 360, I added Crimson Trace grips which only comes part way down the back-strap. It is not enjoyable to shoot even with 38 Spcl rounds. However, I know it works and has a lot of stopping power unless you are facing a mama bear when you stepped between her and her cub. Then you wish you had a Ruger Alaskan in 454 Casull.

I've never seen or shot the Charter Arms Bulldog, but if it is that light, I can imagine it wouldn't be fun to shoot either. The weight is what really makes the difference. Porting will help keep the muzzle down, but it doesn't lessen recoil. A properly designed compensator will direct the gases back to the sides of the shooter, which effective pulls the gun away from you and does lessen the recoil. Keep in mind that if you reduce the weight by 1/2 the recoil becomes 4 times as much.

I know this is thread drift, but when the 460XVR came out, I couldn't find ammo for it anywhere. So my shooting buddy and I were shooting one with 454 Casull using the for lead designed compensator. We got very good groups. A year or so later when I was able to get some 460 S&W Magnum, we went to the range and got good groups, but they were low. I asked an old and wise Range Officer why. He smiled, rolled the cigar around in his mouth and explained. We had the sights set for the recoil/muzzle rise of the 454 Casull. By the time the bullet left, the barrel was rising. The 460 S&W Magnum was coming out so much faster that the muzzle hadn't had time to rise as much. It made sense, but not something I would have ever thought of on my own.

This is exactly the reason behind the shortages. Homeland Security has contracted with the major ammo manufacturers for almost all of their production. They are even buying ammunition through other agencies like the National Weather Service, National Institutes of Health, Housing and Urban Devrlopment, and the IRS. The DHS is also buying .22 cal for training purposes (that is the official word anyway) and every other caliber. Now why in the world would the Federal Government be buying 32 caliber? Why would they buy 380 and 38 special? The standard issue for all federal officers is either 9mm or Smith&Wesson .40 cal, both of which are in very short supply on the civilian market and very expensive if you can find them.

Just like the ATC delays attributed to furloghs, the ammunition shortage is a manufactured way to bring about back door gun control.

Do you believe donkeys fly too? Did DHS "contract" with people across US you come into ammo stores with shopping carts and spend 1000's on ammo? No. It is BS stories like this above that gets the easily swayed to buy into it and panic buy while gun makers and ammo manufactures laugh all the way to the bank.

I'll tell you right now the contracts are with Winchester, Remmington, Olin, Federal and the other large makers of ammunition including their subsidiaries.

And the National Weather Service really did buy a couple of hundred thousand rounds of ammunition this year alone along with the other non-police agencies I mentioned who also purchase hundreds of thousands of rounds. I'm not making this stuff up, the Senate is conducting an investigation because they are not buying the story comming out of DHS. If that was not the case 9mm would be selling for 20 cents a round instead of 50 cents to almost a dollar a round for premium ammo and .22s would be plentiful at less than 10 cents per round all day long.

My XYL has been reading these posts with great interest,she now figures she knows enough about calibers ,speed loaders,ballistics,trigger flinch,politics of supply and demand etc.to now qualify for her concealed weapons permit without shelling out $80.00 for the NRA sanctioned course.She has her eye on one of my 22 cal.revolvers with an ample supply of rat shot shells and wants me to trade even for her can of mace,helluva deal I think.

Trigger "flinch" can be a problem. practice will over come. Maybe you should consider 38 special P+ loads to shoot for a while. Worst kicking hand gun I ever shoot was a 454 that was not ported. Its a real thumper. Most "uncomfortable" was a 18oz 44 specail bull dog. Recoil is very sharp. S&W makes a compact 44mag out of something called skandium that weights about 20oz. I would take a pass on shooting it with a 44mag load.

Practice won't overcome when it is painful, it just makes it worse. You are referring to the S&W 329PD with Scandium Alloy Frame/Titanium Alloy Cylinder. It isn't nearly as bad to shoot as the 360 because there is more contact with your hand. To make matters worse on the 360, I added Crimson Trace grips which only comes part way down the back-strap. It is not enjoyable to shoot even with 38 Spcl rounds. However, I know it works and has a lot of stopping power unless you are facing a mama bear when you stepped between her and her cub. Then you wish you had a Ruger Alaskan in 454 Casull.

I've never seen or shot the Charter Arms Bulldog, but if it is that light, I can imagine it wouldn't be fun to shoot either. The weight is what really makes the difference. Porting will help keep the muzzle down, but it doesn't lessen recoil. A properly designed compensator will direct the gases back to the sides of the shooter, which effective pulls the gun away from you and does lessen the recoil. Keep in mind that if you reduce the weight by 1/2 the recoil becomes 4 times as much.

I know this is thread drift, but when the 460XVR came out, I couldn't find ammo for it anywhere. So my shooting buddy and I were shooting one with 454 Casull using the for lead designed compensator. We got very good groups. A year or so later when I was able to get some 460 S&W Magnum, we went to the range and got good groups, but they were low. I asked an old and wise Range Officer why. He smiled, rolled the cigar around in his mouth and explained. We had the sights set for the recoil/muzzle rise of the 454 Casull. By the time the bullet left, the barrel was rising. The 460 S&W Magnum was coming out so much faster that the muzzle hadn't had time to rise as much. It made sense, but not something I would have ever thought of on my own.

Practice can overcome flinch. With a wheel gun have a friend randomly load a few rounds in cylinder and practice squeezing it off. It helps. Still would not shoot the smith 329 with a 44mag load. Weight and grip angle is all wrong. The old SW mountain 44 is lightest smith I would shoot. I never was found of grip angle of the Smith and liked the Ruger better. You want a angle that promotes the gun to roll up a bit to take some of bite out of it.

The 44 bulldog is a class act. Arguably the best pocket stopper out there with 240 grain flat nose semi wad cutters at about 900 fps that cause a lot of damage without even mushrooming. They hit hard and have good sectional density (ratio of diameter to weight) which helps them penetrate well. They recoil is very sharp because of bullet weight and because 5 shot cylinder is set so low in frame relative to grip that there is little roll up on recoil to soften blow and it hits hand hard.

On 460S&W, I think it a better more versatile caliber than 500. Shoots flatter and hits harder at long range than 500. Plus can shoot 45 colt and 454 in a pinch. Personally thought I never cared for the guns themselves because they are too big and heavy. If I wanted a 50 I would go with a custom 500 Linebach ported and on a ruger super blackhawk frame. Lack of double action is not a problem with rounds of this class and gun would be far easier to carry. A 454 in non ported Ruger is a handful with a heavy load. Also old timer was correct about barrel time of round effecting point of impact. Been shooting 44 mag for close to 40 years and have long been aware of this. While the 44 is not longer king of the hill it is still a serious round especially when hand loaded with 300+ grain flat nose bullets. I once shot a 250 lb deer head on in chest at 75 yards and it came out rear ham with one of these loads. It went down on the spot. Plus something very few are aware of, Ruger 44's of all models have always had a longer cylinder that S&W and other brands which allows for safe custom loads with up to 25% more powder with bullets seated longer in case. You can really tell a difference shooting them. With a 10 inch bull barrel and a scope it is a solid 200 yard deer gun. (even further is you can gauge drop) Many that shoot auto loader pistols do not begin to understand the accuracy that a good revolver is capable of.

We sure got off thread here.

« Last Edit: April 28, 2013, 07:02:20 PM by W8JX »

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--------------------------------------Ham since 1969.... Old School 20 WPM Extra

I just read a 5 year old boy shot and killed his 2 year old sister in Kentucky with a 22 his dad bought him, a little cricket, made and marketed for little children. Is this because of the 5 year old's right to bear arms? Guess he found ammo to give kid too. Where does it end?

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--------------------------------------Ham since 1969.... Old School 20 WPM Extra

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