I mean, I watched the Q&A yesterday on YouTube and I felt really sorry for the guys who are working on this because they seem to know their LoK well, or at least do proper research and they are just making a game they were told to and even the game itself doesn't have anything wrong with it per se, it's just that... it's a game the fanbase deserves, but not the one it needs right now. Like, if this was released alongside an actual sequel, the fanbase would give it a warmer welcome. The people who make decisions on to what kind of a game to make seem to be really out of touch with what people want from the series.

ZeroFernir

3rd Oct 2013, 19:07

The ones who are clomplaining about Nosgoth is the ones who doesn't care about it's future. This game is being produce to get more fans for the series, and they do not understand it. We are taking the good with the bad, as a friend of mine said. Just enjoy Nosgoth and invite some friends of yours to play, and you would have done your part for a new old-style LoK game. But them... forget them. They do not deserve it.

TheMaskedFeeder

3rd Oct 2013, 19:09

I agree, though as a fan of the series anything that can make people take notice of our beloved franchise and get them to notice it and hell, maybe they will even play the old games after, is a worthwhile venture. I know the community has been patient for a long time but wait a little more. A game set in the LoK universe is a step in the right direction because then people will remember this franchise and if they do make a sequel Square Enix may have more financial confidence going in if they see how high the player base.

CountEyokir

3rd Oct 2013, 19:18

The "support them because it will gain a new appreciation for Lok" I think is massively flawed. The average player of a PVP death match arena battle is not going to find games were cutscenes can last more then five minutes appealing. If this does generate new games then those games will be tailored to the impatient lot they just brought in who want to get right into the hack and slash gameplay and we will lose a vital piece of LoK narrative.

ZeroFernir

3rd Oct 2013, 19:26

I dissagree. I think that, as games like old-style LoK are up these days (see Assassins creed, for an axemple) they really only want the people to know previous LoK story to be in love with it, making sure they get more audience for a old-style LoK further.

CountEyokir

3rd Oct 2013, 19:42

Exactly how much of an intellectual time consumer is AC? I always found them straight to the point and very pedestrian with little in the way of twists. Pardon me but the last thing I want is LoK to start taking lesions from AC in terms of telling story.

ZeroFernir

3rd Oct 2013, 20:00

Not in terms of telling story (I would hate that too) but the thing is that AC is also a single-player adventure game, along with lots of other games that are becoming famous. The genre is likeable, that is my point, but right now the LoK fanbase have not all that power, so they are making it so it may have, in near future.

CountEyokir

3rd Oct 2013, 20:05

And a brief dip with a multiplayer the established fanbase is dubious about with a few added titbits of lore here and there are going to start up LoK like AC? Sorry I... find that a little naïve.

vladoms

3rd Oct 2013, 20:20

AC is/was famous because of the "open world" and "climb everything" thingy. The story sucked a lot. Even the ending was bad (AC 3). But LoK have awesome story and awesome universe full of opportunities even for pvp game like this one.

New single player adventure is not possible this time just because the market is so different. New games are usually dull and plain and the only thing that is shoved in your faces is "realism" and "awesome graphics". Well it`s possible if they put a Kickstarter maybe. Actually then we can see how much are the "true" fans of the series. Right now I`m happy that there will be an awesome multiplayer game in my favorite universe. Think about how cool it`ll be to be human or vampire? At the state of gaming universe this is something interesting if is puled of well. Let the devs do their work and after that we can comment.

Cheers for everyone and I hope that we see each other in Nosgoth. (if it doesn`t suck :))

CountEyokir

3rd Oct 2013, 20:23

AC is/was famous because of the "open world" and "climb everything" thingy. The story sucked a lot. Even the ending was bad (AC 3). But LoK have awesome story and awesome universe full of opportunities even for pvp game like this one.

New single player adventure is not possible this time just because the market is so different. New games are usually dull and plain and the only thing that is shoved in your faces is "realism" and "awesome graphics". Well it`s possible if they put a Kickstarter maybe. Actually then we can see how much are the "true" fans of the series. Right now I`m happy that there will be an awesome multiplayer game in my favorite universe. Think about how cool it`ll be to be human or vampire? At the state of gaming universe this is something interesting if is puled of well. Let the devs do their work and after that we can comment.

Cheers for everyone and I hope that we see each other in Nosgoth. (if it doesn`t suck :))

I am human. I know what being human is like. Being human is boring because I do it all the time. But this does nothing to endure newcomers to the deep complexity and immersive story of the classic games. If anything I think this will just turn them off to it. They'll go.. "oh those games existed..." and then go right back to playing multiplayer games.

vladoms

3rd Oct 2013, 20:27

I am human. I know what being human is like. Being human is boring because I do it all the time. But this does nothing to endure newcomers to the deep complexity and immersive story of the classic games. If anything I think this will just turn them off to it. They'll go.. "oh those games existed..." and then go right back to playing multiplayer games.

TBH the future of gaming maybe is to become more and more cooperative/multiplayer :( (RE series for ex.) Yes, it`ll be cool to have new LoK game. I want it too but I see that this is hardly possible at this time. But I can appreciate work of people. And this people have be working hard to make something (good or bad). To bash them all over the Internet is just awful.

CountEyokir

3rd Oct 2013, 20:32

Then why under the 'Dead Sun' should I encourage them to use LoK for their endeavour and not let them develop their own unique Human vs Vampire world for the very purpose of a multiplayer? As for working hard....I already know they recycled plants and buildings from Dead Sun

ZeroFernir

3rd Oct 2013, 20:40

I just don't care about Dead Sun so much I had cared about the last 9 games they cancelled. It is a pity, but we can't do nothing but wait ans support them as they are trying to get the series alive again. I am doing my part, I called a lot of my friends to play with me already, so maybe they like the universe of LoK and come to know the deeper story behind that war. And you, what are you doing for the well of the series? complaining? no use.

CountEyokir

3rd Oct 2013, 20:44

I just don't care about Dead Sun so much I had cared about the last 9 games they cancelled. It is a pity, but we can't do nothing but wait ans support them as they are trying to get the series alive again. I am doing my part, I called a lot of my friends to play with me already, so maybe they like the universe of LoK and come to know the deeper story behind that war. And you, what are you doing for the well of the series? complaining? no use.

First of all, be civil please.
Secondly, I have been a continual fanfiction writer and artist since the end of Defiance and have kept the narrative and memory alive in the best way that I can. I complain because I think the concept is catering to current market trends and the lore put there simply to have justification for it, like thinly buttered toast. I complain because Nosgoth grew out of Dead Sun which was cancelled because they didn't think it would make enough money. Nosgoth in its current state exists solely because of that decision. I complain because I don't want to see Nosgoth 2... and neither do you!

ZeroFernir

3rd Oct 2013, 20:54

First of all, be civil please.
Secondly, I have been a continual fanfiction writer and artist since the end of Defiance and have kept the narrative and memory alive in the best way that I can. I complain because I think the concept is catering to current market trends and the lore put there simply to have justification for it, like thinly buttered toast. I complain because Nosgoth grew out of Dead Sun which was cancelled because they didn't think it would make enough money. Nosgoth in its current state exists solely because of that decision. I complain because I don't want to see Nosgoth 2... and neither do you!

There won't be a Nosgoth 2, or, if it happens, will happen after the series have gone back to it's fullest. I hadn't leaked civility in any moment, maybe you just understood me wrong. I was not offending, and I am sorry if it could be undertood that way. I am just saying that we should, actually, give a chance for that game, because it's all that we have. If we could to decide between dead sun and nosgoth, me and 1982376412983741234 people would choose dead sun, together with you. but this is what we have for now, and I am sincerelly happy to see that it is going well (in project terms) and it makes me only more confiant that somethay we get the old-style LoK back.

CountEyokir

3rd Oct 2013, 21:00

There won't be a Nosgoth 2, or, if it happens, will happen after the series have gone back to it's fullest. I hadn't leaked civility in any moment, maybe you just understood me wrong. I was not offending, and I am sorry if it could be undertood that way. I am just saying that we should, actually, give a chance for that game, because it's all that we have. If we could to decide between dead sun and nosgoth, me and 1982376412983741234 people would choose dead sun, together with you. but this is what we have for now, and I am sincerelly happy to see that it is going well (in project terms) and it makes me only more confiant that somethay we get the old-style LoK back.

What an oddly specific number. Of course we'd have preferred to play Dead Sun over this. We'd all prefer to play Blood Omen 2 over this. But how exactly is "this game is a necessary evil" a selling point? Seriously, half the supporters of Nosgoth on this forum tell me to tolerate it in hopes of reigniting proper games later with only a small fraction actually looking forward to the game by itself. The point of my little Nosgoth 2 analogy was that none of us want to see this game grow into a franchise of its own, a long list of Nosgothic multiplayers and the original series is left in the dust. Which I think is a very strong possibility if it catches on

CountEyokir

3rd Oct 2013, 21:16

I mean, I watched the Q&A yesterday on YouTube and I felt really sorry for the guys who are working on this because they seem to know their LoK well, or at least do proper research and they are just making a game they were told to and even the game itself doesn't have anything wrong with it per se, it's just that... it's a game the fanbase deserves, but not the one it needs right now. Like, if this was released alongside an actual sequel, the fanbase would give it a warmer welcome. The people who make decisions on to what kind of a game to make seem to be really out of touch with what people want from the series.

"the one it deserves but not the one is needs?" Are you seriously comparing Nosgoth to Batman?

ZeroFernir

3rd Oct 2013, 21:20

Actually, now that you said, I would love to have a Nosgoth 2... with that ancient vampires war =P
It is a necessary evil, because without it we would have no more LoK games at all. So, if you want it, do as I did with Resident evil: the series decenerated so low that I excluded anything more recent than RE:3 nemesis. for me, anything of that is part of a franchising of its own. But the very game was a good idea, making a war in that time... but I think that, with a little more work (obviously, there would need to be a lot more lore searching for doing it) the ancient vampires war would be a greater idea...Hope to see it in a furthercome Nosgoth 2, if there will be having any.

Reidbynature

3rd Oct 2013, 21:23

I would caution against speaking on behalf of all or even most LoK fans. Dead Sun didn't exactly look in keeping with LoK in some fans views when it was uncovered either. I would maybe add that Dead Sun had more potential to go against lore than Nosgoth does.

CountEyokir

3rd Oct 2013, 21:25

Oh if this game was actually set during the Ancient Vampire and Hylden war... oh **** I would be all OVER it. But no...I guess they had to set it in this sort of time to make use of their left overs from Dead Sun. But No, a Nosgoth 2 would just lead to Nosgoth 3 and 4 and first person complex characters like Kain, Raziel, Vorador will fade away and become figures in mythology, barely seen or talked about because their presence isn't necessary. The very core of the point of LoK goes forever 'poof'

Heyyy.......the new protagonist of a first person Lok Game-.... Vorador?

CountEyokir

3rd Oct 2013, 21:28

I would caution against speaking on behalf of all or even most LoK fans. Dead Sun didn't exactly look in keeping with LoK in some fans views when it was uncovered either. I would maybe add that Dead Sun had more potential to go against lore than Nosgoth does.

Of course it did.. but that doesn't change the fact that Nosgoth was birthed from it. Nosgoth is Dead Son's....dead son lol XP. As for Lore...well I like to use my razor of relevance here, its how I get by a writer. If what you wanna write in has no consequence for any character, not even for the world at large, what use is it? If the answer is nothing, think of something else. Nosgoth fits in the lore yes but only just. It takes away nothing from continuity but adds nothing to it either. I think we can all agree their whole tagline of "Decide the fate of Nosgoth." is largely nonsense considering we already know how this ends.

Rexidus

3rd Oct 2013, 21:30

In reading your posts it is blatantly clear that you're pissed because this isn't the game you wanted. You've held the series so close to your chest that you are now blind to any new ideas.

The fact is we don't know what will happen in the future but we do know what happened in the past. The series was dead and all but forgotten. Now a new game is being released. Be happy that it has people who know and respect the series. There are far worse series that are revived after a long absence only to be abused.

You need to calm down and step away for a while. Let the game tell you why it's cool and stop decrying it because it isn't what you wanted.

CountEyokir

3rd Oct 2013, 21:39

In reading your posts it is blatantly clear that you're pissed because this isn't the game you wanted. You've held the series so close to your chest that you are now blind to any new ideas.

The fact is we don't know what will happen in the future but we do know what happened in the past. The series was dead and all but forgotten. Now a new game is being released. Be happy that it has people who know and respect the series. There are far worse series that are revived after a long absence only to be abused.

You need to calm down and step away for a while. Let the game tell you why it's cool and stop decrying it because it isn't what you wanted.

Of course this is not the game I wanted. This is not the game any of us wanted. This is literally a game that nobody asked for, ditching what made the old series what it was in the process. Am I opposed to multiplayer? No. As long as they work in what made the classic games appealing to me I have no problem. I have never once questioned whether the development team were true fans but this does preclude mistakes being made in concept. Let me put it this way... would you like it if you discovered there was a Legacy of Kain single player in the works but that it was being developed by Nintendo and involved a new gameplay mechanic of jumping on mushrooms, how exactly would you feel about that?
I will indeed let the game speak for itself, but it certainly isn't off on a good footing. Unlike the classics a multiplayer is something I really can not get into long term and because it is under the banner of Nosgoth that saddens me. It offers me nothing of what draws me back to play the classics over and over. If the core element was put back in, it would be a different story. Please stop questioning my integrity.

Reidbynature

3rd Oct 2013, 21:39

Of course it did.. but that doesn't change the fact that Nosgoth was birthed from it. Nosgoth is Dead Son's....dead son lol XP. As for Lore...well I like to use my razor of relevance here, its how I get by a writer. If what you wanna write in has no consequence for any character, not even for the world at large, what use is it? If the answer is nothing, think of something else. Nosgoth fits in the lore yes but only just. It takes away nothing from continuity but adds nothing to it either. I think we can all agree their whole tagline of "Decide the fate of Nosgoth." is largely nonsense considering we already know how this ends.

I don't see the relevance here. It's not trying to tell a story, it's not a single player game. People can repeat "oh they could just strip the LoK references and just rename it" or whatever, but this is where we're at now and repeating that sentiment doesn't mean anything really.

CountEyokir

3rd Oct 2013, 21:42

I don't see the relevance here. It's not trying to tell a story, it's not a single player game. People can repeat "oh they could just strip the LoK references and just rename it" or whatever, but this is where we're at now and repeating that sentiment doesn't mean anything really.

Doesn't stop it from being true, either. I will sum it this way. If the game doesn't care about its story, why should we?

Vampmaster

3rd Oct 2013, 21:51

As far as I'm aware, this game doesn't have the budget for cutscenes. That doesn't mean there aren't other ways to present a story inbetween the MP matches. Text, stills, paintings, unlockable snippets of lore, in-game graphic novels have all been discussed. Maybe there could be battle reports from the clan leaders or a few paragraphs of whichever outcome happens to be canon.

Reidbynature

3rd Oct 2013, 21:54

Doesn't stop it from being true, either.

Does it not? That's a pretty general statement that any fan can hide behind when they don't like anything new about something they like. You can make that argument about just about anything.

I will sum it this way. If the game doesn't care about its story, why should we?

You also make the assumption that they don't care about story, so I don't see how I can answer your question since it's clearly loaded.

CountEyokir

3rd Oct 2013, 21:54

As far as I'm aware, this game doesn't have the budget for cutscenes. That doesn't mean there aren't other ways to present a story inbetween the MP matches. Text, scenes, unlockable snippets of lore, in-game graphic novels have all been discussed.

That at least would be something. A graphic novel actually telling a narrative, giving the events depicted meaning for something we can relate to meaning and consequence. Without that, the events being shown are pretty much worthless. Text and unlocked lore however - bleh. No no ... character, character, character! I can not stress that necessity enough

CountEyokir

3rd Oct 2013, 21:57

Does it not? That's a pretty general statement that any fan can hide behind when they don't like anything new about something they like. You can make that argument about just about anything.

You also make the assumption that they don't care about story, so I don't see how I can answer your question since it's clearly loaded.

Oh another questioning my ability to like new things? I have never once accused anyone here of being blind sheep when I could have. I find such insults beneath me.
I have stated this over and over. I am NOT opposed to new forms of gameplay. Story is what drives me and the complex characters in the tradition of LoK. Put that back into Nosgoth in some form, make the events actually mean something to those characters - and I have no problem

Reidbynature

3rd Oct 2013, 22:08

Insults? Are you really that precious? I'm just putting forth my argument as are you. There really isn't need for the melodrama.

CountEyokir

3rd Oct 2013, 22:09

Insults? Are you really that precious? I'm just putting forth my argument as are you. There really isn't need for the melodrama.

You were suggesting by my words that I didn't like change, along with several others back there.

Vampmaster

3rd Oct 2013, 22:10

That at least would be something. A graphic novel actually telling a narrative, giving the events depicted meaning for something we can relate to meaning and consequence. Without that, the events being shown are pretty much worthless. Text and unlocked lore however - bleh. No no ... character, character, character! I can not stress that necessity enough

Well, the unlockable thing would just a way to spread it out as a reward for accomplishments within the game by "lore", I mean anything a from a few paragraphs describing backstory to specific events or part of a full blown epic. Just struggling to think of a word to include varying scope.

CountEyokir

3rd Oct 2013, 22:13

hmm perhaps not in the game then. How about they release a large graphic novel, or even a short series, to tell the story of this war and how it relates to the rest of them mythos with new characters. It would make the lore a lot more palatable for some fans

Reidbynature

3rd Oct 2013, 22:19

You were suggesting by my words that I didn't like change, along with several others back there.

No. I was speaking more about the argument itself. Not a personal judgment on you.

ZeroFernir

3rd Oct 2013, 22:21

hmm perhaps not in the game then. How about they release a large graphic novel, or even a short series, to tell the story of this war and how it relates to the rest of them mythos with new characters. It would make the lore a lot more palatable for some fans

Or they could do the lore of it in something like the Spartan Ops game mode from Halo 4: It is a coop game mode with little missions that involves the story of the game that are released once a week... wouldn't it be great? maybe telling the story of a new NPC character that will have influence on the series in the future, talking about a group of unknown vampires who rescued him from the humans?

CountEyokir

3rd Oct 2013, 22:22

No. I was speaking more about the argument itself. Not a personal judgment on you.

Well alright then, I withdraw my assumption. It still holds weight I feel. If the player can not really get immersed in events then they have no depth and meaning and are thus useful to the overall story. If this was corrected in Nosgoth with character I would be all over it.

MrMilky

3rd Oct 2013, 22:25

I think that people shouldn't think in terms of any particular story, aside from a bit more background about the exact geographical location as well as characters used.

Sadly, this shouldn't be thought about in terms of anything better then a description in terms of narrative efforts. If it had thirty characters involved in the gameplay only then it would even make sense to have what Vamp suggested. I'd like to be wrong but so far I haven't seen any person working on the actual story behind this, and, quite frankly for a PvP arena it wouldn't make sense to have it. So, please, don't force it on the devs because if there was a plan to use it they'd clearly implement it since the December of 2012.

I have seen that many people were talking about general lore and were immersing themselves with it, trying to find what's appropriate, what's not. Even if I can or can't agree with someone I must say that it's amazing to see all these people caring for LoK lore, aside the petty differences.

I don't feel sorry for the devs because they've done their job based on something that was left aside ten years ago. Seeing what some of the reputable fans stated on their blogs, they don't possess the experience with MOBA-alike titles, so they're not familiar with this whole thing and what not/to expect. It would be nice if they'd actually hear others who do have a lot of experience with this sort of things before they get their hopes too high expecting something which can be a probability, but nothing more. Even the most popular MOBA-alike titles with enormous fanbase don't have stories involving the characters. They have fanfiction. They have lore. They have an interactive way to tell stories which are, in no way, relevant to the gameplay.
And, the essential thing is - they change thanks to the huge dev team behind.
Bear in mind that BETA in terms of an Online game isn't the same as BETA in terms of a single-player game. Many online games are still in the BETA state even with millions of players worldwide, but it's left only for the purpose of fixing the possible exploits/bugs or anything to that effect. If you want to help this game grow there shouldn't be involving any cosmetic change map-wise. The improvement will come from the feedback based on the balance between the clans. The balance is important and especially if there's going to be more characters included.
That's the most essential thing about BETA itself in terms of participating in it.

My personal impression is that this was done "to work" on its own without devs having to tweak something every five minutes, although there will be numerous server maintenances, which is only natural. Tweaking won't involve story but the actual server-side problems in relation to the clients. There might be a team, and I strongly suggest that someone already makes it, of people who will do fanfiction here on the forum itself. I'd personally call people who do care for Nosgoth to do so voluntarily and writ fanfiction based on the characters in the game, to give them background.

I've been accused several times of antagonism but I found it unjust. This is my way of helping to the community who wants to play the game.

Legacy of Kain enthusiasts enjoy deep and rich stories. Logically I think that devs should come out and officially say that they're going to make a contest for the background story involving each and every character in the game Nosgoth. The story which gets most votes (or is personally picked by a jury) will have an honor of actually being in the game. If this happens, you have my promise that it'll be a major success and will help this game to support what some people say "interactive way of storytelling". The prerequisite is :

- LoK lore knowledge

I suggest that there's a topic involving fitting the characters in the lore and giving them more background.

Well, thanks for reading. :thumb:

Vampmaster

3rd Oct 2013, 22:25

hmm perhaps not in the game then. How about they release a large graphic novel, or even a short series, to tell the story of this war and how it relates to the rest of them mythos with new characters. It would make the lore a lot more palatable for some fans

I hope SE can include as much story as possible. I don't really mind what form it comes in, but I figured if it's not part of the game, old fans might only read the story and new ones might only play the games. It's not really the outcome that would lead to a new single player game.

CountEyokir

3rd Oct 2013, 22:27

I hope SE can include as much story as possible. I don't really mind what form it comes in, but I figured if it's not part of the game, old fans might only read the story and new ones might only play the games. It's not really the outcome that would lead to a new single player game.

I can't imagine this as it stands will lead to a single player either. I think you need more than that, otherwise all they've tossed us is a bone to chew on.

Reidbynature

3rd Oct 2013, 22:37

Well alright then, I withdraw my assumption. It still holds weight I feel. If the player can not really get immersed in events then they have no depth and meaning and are thus useful to the overall story. If this was corrected in Nosgoth with character I would be all over it.

On the point about not feeling invested in the gameplay with no incentive story-wise, I agree. That's a concern of mine as well. I'm somewhat optimistic on that front myself though as they've seemingly maintained a stance that there will be lore there despite it not being a story driven game. Whether that's Max Payne 3 style scene setting narration here and there or extras not set within the game itself, but in other menus or what have you, I'd be fine as long as it felt substantial enough for me to keep going with the game.

Even if Nosgoth is not what I hoped it would be or not something I'd stick at for long, as long as it's successful I can at least hop back onto LoK when another single player game comes along.

CountEyokir

3rd Oct 2013, 22:42

We keep coming back to that don't we? I'd be a lot lot LOT more confident about it if we had confirmation that there are indeed plans for Kain's return in single player and not a vague hope. I don't like working on faith, especially not when Square Enix is involved (no offense to any of the fine, dillegently hard working employees of Square Enix)

CountEyokir

3rd Oct 2013, 22:44

I think that people shouldn't think in terms of any particular story, aside from a bit more background about the exact geographical location as well as characters used.

Sadly, this shouldn't be thought about in terms of anything better then a description in terms of narrative efforts. If it had thirty characters involved in the gameplay only then it would even make sense to have what Vamp suggested. I'd like to be wrong but so far I haven't seen any person working on the actual story behind this, and, quite frankly for a PvP arena it wouldn't make sense to have it. So, please, don't force it on the devs because if there was a plan to use it they'd clearly implement it since the December of 2012.

I have seen that many people were talking about general lore and were immersing themselves with it, trying to find what's appropriate, what's not. Even if I can or can't agree with someone I must say that it's amazing to see all these people caring for LoK lore, aside the petty differences.

I don't feel sorry for the devs because they've done their job based on something that was left aside ten years ago. Seeing what some of the reputable fans stated on their blogs, they don't possess the experience with MOBA-alike titles, so they're not familiar with this whole thing and what not/to expect. It would be nice if they'd actually hear others who do have a lot of experience with this sort of things before they get their hopes too high expecting something which can be a probability, but nothing more. Even the most popular MOBA-alike titles with enormous fanbase don't have stories involving the characters. They have fanfiction. They have lore. They have an interactive way to tell stories which are, in no way, relevant to the gameplay.
And, the essential thing is - they change thanks to the huge dev team behind.
Bear in mind that BETA in terms of an Online game isn't the same as BETA in terms of a single-player game. Many online games are still in the BETA state even with millions of players worldwide, but it's left only for the purpose of fixing the possible exploits/bugs or anything to that effect. If you want to help this game grow there shouldn't be involving any cosmetic change map-wise. The improvement will come from the feedback based on the balance between the clans. The balance is important and especially if there's going to be more characters included.
That's the most essential thing about BETA itself in terms of participating in it.

My personal impression is that this was done "to work" on its own without devs having to tweak something every five minutes, although there will be numerous server maintenances, which is only natural. Tweaking won't involve story but the actual server-side problems in relation to the clients. There might be a team, and I strongly suggest that someone already makes it, of people who will do fanfiction here on the forum itself. I'd personally call people who do care for Nosgoth to do so voluntarily and writ fanfiction based on the characters in the game, to give them background.

Legacy of Kain enthusiasts enjoy deep and rich stories. Logically I think that devs should come out and officially say that they're going to make a contest for the background story involving each and every character in the game Nosgoth. The story which gets most votes (or is personally picked by a jury) will have an honor of actually being in the game. If this happens, you have my promise that it'll be a major success and will help this game to support what some people say "interactive way of storytelling". The prerequisite is :

- LoK lore knowledge

I suggest that there's a topic involving fitting the characters in the lore and giving them more background.

Well, thanks for reading.

I like your suggestion and way of phrasing the issue.

Rexidus

3rd Oct 2013, 23:50

We keep coming back to that don't we? I'd be a lot lot LOT more confident about it if we had confirmation that there are indeed plans for Kain's return in single player and not a vague hope. I don't like working on faith, especially not when Square Enix is involved (no offense to any of the fine, dillegently hard working employees of Square Enix)
This game will not be single player nor will you play as Kain in it. So until proven otherwise assume no such game will exist. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

That doesn't mean Nosgoth will be a bad game nor a disrespectful game. It just isn't one that needs an in depth story. You should learn to accept that.

MrMilky

3rd Oct 2013, 23:59

^ I'm under the impression that CountEyokir is quite aware of that.

Let's just agree that given Dead Sun not having Kain as well as Nosgoth not having Kain really isn't something to hope for to get Kain and, yes, solid proof is needed in order to have most of the negativity and concerns from the fans at bay.
Unfortunately I doubt that the current Dev team makes any choices and that SE holds all the cards, so all we can do is make a petition even though many previous petitions were not successful.
I think that everyone agrees on the fact that fans want to see Kain in-game and Simon Templeman voicing him.

blueobelix

4th Oct 2013, 00:40

I don't feel bad for the devs, they will get their payments anyway, i feel bad for the fans, lol.
Considering the fact that they didn't even released yet Nosgoth, we are ranting uselessly because they said they didn't even started the bulk/scrap for a sequel or another single-player raziel/Kain included ( sincerely i would be satisfied even with a Janos Audron game but... let's move on ) BECAUSE we will have to wait another 2-3 or even 4 years. The old team have done indeed a wonderful work in a short time, considering the time between the release of the BO1 SR1 BO2 SR2 and Defiance. I do really doubt they will do something in short time, considering the fact that they need to choose the path of the story and the artwork [that it has to be HD now] , the scenario, the graphics that we are pretentious about nowadays.
If this happens, the possibility of a stupid LoK game is high.
Even tough, in my humble opinion, i do really consider that any kind of LoK sequel or prequel to defiance single player would be good. We just miss Kain , Raziel, Ariel and so on and that's it.
ALSO i am really afraid not even this will happen, if this project "Nosgoth" doesn't have success, I don't think they will make any sequel simply because the industry works like this [look AC for refference] :
- it was a success? Yes
- it was bought and gave us a lot of money? Yes
then we will make another one until becomes boring and repetitive and the game is ruined.
I know lots of those games that had this faith, i am afraid it will come to this.
I do really hope this preddictions won't come true or else i [ and not only, an entire fanbase of , i think, milions of people] will be dissapointed.
I say milions because, even if they are few the ones who posts here, but think about all the gamers that are not forumers, all the gamers that don't care about internet, all the gamers that care just about LoK. I know lots of those pople and BELIEVE ME, Square Enix just need marketing more LoK.
Considering the LoK games are pretty old, all they need , I think is a Soul Reaver HD remake, gived by the fact that Nosgoth is being placed after Soul Reaver 1 and Nosgoth a multiplayer game mode for it.
Hope i didn't annoyed you guys, i hope the devs will appreciate the opinions of every single one of us that really care about Legacy of Kain.

Sam250

4th Oct 2013, 01:53

I sure feel bad for Monkeythumbz. It is his job to read everything you guys write.

ZeroFernir

4th Oct 2013, 02:04

I sure feel bad for Monkeythumbz. It is his job to read everything you guys write.

u.u, agreed...

CountEyokir

4th Oct 2013, 06:39

I sure feel bad for Monkeythumbz. It is his job to read everything you guys write.

Oh and because we don't particularly like the concept of the game, that somehow makes whatever we have to say about it the rabbling's of insignificant mountain trolls does it?

u.u, agreed...

Wonderful respect for others opinions there

This game will not be single player nor will you play as Kain in it. So until proven otherwise assume no such game will exist. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

That doesn't mean Nosgoth will be a bad game nor a disrespectful game. It just isn't one that needs an in depth story. You should learn to accept that.

Doing so misses the entire point of why I found LoK interesting in the first place. Without that I don't think this will hold fans attentions long term nor compete with the other large PVP games out there, giving the franchise no chance at coming back with the core of what made it good still intact. Assuming no such potential game will exist is reason enough for me NOT to support this game, because this would mean Nosgoth is all we ever get after a decade and that's simply not acceptable.

blueobelix - Yes, if they truly wants to revive the franchise, HD remakes of the games released as a big package would have been an excellent start rather then a concept that had nothing to do with the original thought

MrMilky

4th Oct 2013, 08:02

Square Enix just need marketing more LoK.

I as an experienced gamer and LoK enthusiast completely think that this is the correct approach to the revival of the series. New generation of gamers play pretty much everything as long as it's new and refreshing. Biggest forums such as Gaia online and 4chan are the proof for that.

Swagraven

4th Oct 2013, 10:17

I think there's an excellent point here that someone could be making about a story being told just with the level design.
Portal told the story of Ratman without ever mentioning his name, or explicitly telling us that he was there.

CountEyokir

4th Oct 2013, 10:52

I think there's an excellent point here that someone could be making about a story being told just with the level design.
Portal told the story of Ratman without ever mentioning his name, or explicitly telling us that he was there.

Portal was a first person game. Exactly how much time is the casual player going to have to look up the lore while running around trying to outsmart the other team inside of a largely cluttered and random area?

MrMilky

4th Oct 2013, 11:20

Portal was a first person game. Exactly how much time is the casual player going to have to look up the lore while running around trying to outsmart the other team inside of a largely cluttered and random area?

I was never under the impression that the male scientist was in any way story material, just lore. Of course, Portal series are amazing but solely for the gameplay and memorable GlaDOS. 2nd part of it was amazing because of the animations and, now, two characters + adorable turrets :D

All of that felt really refreshing back in 2011. when I almost gave up from PC gaming.

----

Even so, I don't think that any devised story elements may prove intriguing enough unless they're made strictly from the player base i.e. fanfiction.

ZeroFernir

4th Oct 2013, 11:59

Wonderful respect for others opinions there

It's not a disrespect for your opinions, you are doing it the right way, actually. But I've seen so many players posting semi-offensive dumb things...

CountEyokir

4th Oct 2013, 12:25

It's not a disrespect for your opinions, you are doing it the right way, actually. But I've seen so many players posting semi-offensive dumb things...

To be honest I can't blame them for being offensive. I have to keep down my own urge to swear and remain civil and at least slightly constructive. Doesn't change the fact I think the mere premise and reason for this games existence foolish, but I'll still offer advice on how it can elevate itself in my opinion

ZeroFernir

4th Oct 2013, 12:54

It is hard to put some lore on a shooter moba. The only option, in my opinion, is to make it as in Halo 4, as I said before...

CountEyokir

4th Oct 2013, 12:57

It is hard to put some lore on a shooter moba. The only option, in my opinion, is to make it as in Halo 4, as I said before...