The leak and the name are two different things. The name is what we're getting. I'd bet IRL money on that. The leak? I believe there will be time travel involved. As I said in another thread - the appearance of the Timewalkers at the end of MoP, and the vision of Soridormi's death in that questline, is too random and disconnected to the events of the rest of MoP. Back in Wrath, Sartharion, the appearance of Twilight cultists in Northrend, and Halion all seemed pretty random and disconnected from the main storyline of Arthas and the Scourge -- but looking back at it later, they were a perfect bridge to the events of Cataclysm. It was a moment of 'Oh, so THAT'S what was going on there...' you know what I mean?

If - IF - Grom is going to be the antagonist this time around, I suspect it will have to do with the the Infinites. And I suspect in the end we will not be there to kill him, but rather to save him and ensure that Azerothian history as we know it actually happens as we know it. The end of Cataclysm, with End Time and Well of Eternity, are the only times our time travel adventures haven't been focused on making sure that the history we know - as bloody and miserable as it is - actually happens. And I suspect the fact that we DID interfere with time in order to change things instead of making sure they happened the same way is going to end up being a factor.

Jumoing straight to 'OMG we're going to kill him this is SO STUPID' is premature. There are a lot of pretty cool ways it could play out given half a chance.

There are a lot of cool ways anything can be played out by someone. Doesn't mean that something that is usually likely to go awry won't be done badly.

And I'm very sure I even emphasized that one part of my irritation with it is based on the leak hypothetically being true, while the other is based on just the name. Draenor?

No, thanks. Like I said: I'd rather have Argus and Xoroth ten times over, instead of Outland, and I will stick with that. And like you said: The Timewalkers do seem like one of those Halion -> Cataclysm cases, in which case I feel I have even more basis to think it's utterly lame. I wish Blizzard would stop using time-traveling, it just makes everything you do feel useless.

Originally Posted by leaks

Well it's good to see the keyboard activists in full effect. Doing the laziest, most asinine thing they could think of off the top of their heads and calling it justice while making no difference.

Originally Posted by C9H20

Blizzard effectively wants to have its cake and eat it too by pretending to have this groundbreaking war in a faction capital while at the same time being completely unwilling to portray logical consequences of such an event.

If we have to go back to stop our present and past from being annihliated by a new timeline and our characters and everything we know and have done poofed out of existance, I fail to see how that would be useless...

None of the things he reported, beyond the title, made any sense what-so-ever. Having Grom as the main antagonist would be disastrous, as we just had his son as the main antagonist. He could be an important character, yes, but then the "leak" was wrong.

I'm not saying I'm a fan of the expansion centering on Grom, but I see a lot of puzzle pieces floating around that all seem to be part of a bigger picture I just can't quite make out. First, the timeless isle - the visions, particularly the one where Anduin goes to see Garrosh - and the notion that someone is tampering with the timelines. Second, some of the riddle-like hints that came from the Chinese forum thread mentioned the next expansion having a lot of father and son hooks. Garrosh and Grom would be a major one, but there's also Varian and Anduin. Perhaps Wrathion will seek out his father in the past as well. Then there's Thrall and his offspring... a son? Metzen has said we'll be seeing Turalyon and Valeria, both of whom went missing on Draenor, so that seems very possible. As does the potential return and redemption of Illidan that Metzen likes to hint toward.

Obviously, I don't know how any of this is really going to fit together, and how much of it is just noise, but I think we can finally rule out The Dark Below, the south seas, emerald dream, Azshara, N'zoth and an imminent invasion from the Burning Legion. The next expansion appears to be taking us in a direction no one expected, and that's a good thing. I'm finally really stoked for Blizzcon to see exactly what Warlords of Draenor is all about.

Every single time, when the trademark pops up along with a confirmed domain registration and Boub says 'this is the real thing' there's a group of holdouts with their fingers in their ears shouting 'NU UH BLIZZ IS MESSIN WITH US IT R MISDRECTUN RITE GAIZ!'

Every.
Single.
Time.

Conspiracy theories are just a big ol' part of the personality disorders that make our big spinning planet such a fun fest.

I'm not saying I'm a fan of the expansion centering on Grom, but I see a lot of puzzle pieces floating around that all seem to be part of a bigger picture I just can't quite make out. First, the timeless isle - the visions, particularly the one where Anduin goes to see Garrosh - and the notion that someone is tampering with the timelines. Second, some of the riddle-like hints that came from the Chinese forum thread mentioned the next expansion having a lot of father and son hooks. Garrosh and Grom would be a major one, but there's also Varian and Anduin. Perhaps Wrathion will seek out his father in the past as well. Then there's Thrall and his offspring... a son? Metzen has said we'll be seeing Turalyon and Valeria, both of whom went missing on Draenor, so that seems very possible. As does the potential return and redemption of Illidan that Metzen likes to hint toward.

Obviously, I don't know how any of this is really going to fit together, and how much of it is just noise, but I think we can finally rule out The Dark Below, the south seas, emerald dream, Azshara, N'zoth and an imminent invasion from the Burning Legion. The next expansion appears to be taking us in a direction no one expected, and that's a good thing. I'm finally really stoked for Blizzcon to see exactly what Warlords of Draenor is all about.

But it all sounds like a filler expansion (another one after pandas), until the burning legions come again!

Funny, when I haven't ever complained about any expansion before. But way to assume!

The worst you could hold against me is that I was a bit so-so on Mists of Pandaria at first, not sure whether to believe it, and eventually thinking that it would bring us some interesting possibilities as time passed.

The plot that was summarized by the opening post of the 'future of wow', however, was horrible. Going back in time to an unbroken Draenor to put down an evil Grommash Hellscream? You really don't see any problem with that concept?

1. Back in time: Going back in time and changing things would change the future and effectively make a lot of what we did in vanilla worthless. Killing Grommash at a certain point in time could also mean Garrosh never came to be, and thus his conquest in Cataclysm and Mists of Pandaria, and the Siege of Orgrimmar will not have happened. Mists of Pandaria will have been different, because Garrosh never unleashed the Sha, and in turn -- there would have never been the Horde conquest that first led the Alliance and Horde to battle on Pandaria.

2. Another orc villain: Grommash Hellscream. Not only another evil orc, but directly Garrosh's daddy. I'm sure people will be stoked to fight yet another orc; the daddy of the previous expansion's villain.

Those are two major peeves if I go with the OP of that thread as something viable, which Boub's post only supports. However, even if it isn't true, it still means:

We go to Draenor, where we've been before. We'll likely be spending at least the majority of the time there, instead of some new and exciting place like.. Argus? The South Seas? Ny'alotha? Xoroth? We're essentially going back and forth. So what? We'll never leave Outland or Azeroth because we'll just keep alternating between the two for new expansions?

Not even sure what to think of that last paragraph? It doesn't refute what I said at all.

You forgot to add that we cannot kill Grommash. That would destroy wow canon and end the world. He kinda has to die at a certain time in a certain way.

I'm not saying I'm a fan of the expansion centering on Grom, but I see a lot of puzzle pieces floating around that all seem to be part of a bigger picture I just can't quite make out. First, the timeless isle - the visions, particularly the one where Anduin goes to see Garrosh - and the notion that someone is tampering with the timelines. Second, some of the riddle-like hints that came from the Chinese forum thread mentioned the next expansion having a lot of father and son hooks. Garrosh and Grom would be a major one, but there's also Varian and Anduin. Perhaps Wrathion will seek out his father in the past as well. Then there's Thrall and his offspring... a son? Metzen has said we'll be seeing Turalyon and Valeria, both of whom went missing on Draenor, so that seems very possible. As does the potential return and redemption of Illidan that Metzen likes to hint toward.

Obviously, I don't know how any of this is really going to fit together, and how much of it is just noise, but I think we can finally rule out The Dark Below, the south seas, emerald dream, Azshara, N'zoth and an imminent invasion from the Burning Legion. The next expansion appears to be taking us in a direction no one expected, and that's a good thing. I'm finally really stoked for Blizzcon to see exactly what Warlords of Draenor is all about.

The thing is, we've already witnesses and experienced all of those characters and events. Even if in the form of an RTS, or a book. Going back to see that in WoW would be an extremely unimaginative thing to do. People want Illidan, Turalyon, etc. brought back because they want them in our timeline, and to interact with them. But bringing them back from the past wouldn't feel like truly bringing them back. It'd feel like creating a clone. An unlettered clone too, completely oblivious to all the recent affairs of the Warcraft universe.

I want a seasoned and grey-bearded Turalyon to return from the Twisting Nether - not the 30 year old pup from the Second War.
I want Illidan to come back, knowledgeable about his ill-doings in Outland, but willing to redeem himself and fight the Legion - not an Illidan unaware of all the things he would be doing.

There'd be no real character development in a time travel expansion. Just a lame geekfest and rose-tinted goggles extravaganza.

The thing is, we've already witnesses and experienced all of those characters and events. Even if in the form of an RTS, or a book. Going back to see that in WoW would be an extremely unimaginative thing to do. People want Illidan, Turalyon, etc. brought back because they want them in our timeline, and to interact with them. But bringing them back from the past wouldn't feel like truly bringing them back. It'd feel like creating a clone. An unlettered clone too, completely oblivious to all the recent affairs of the Warcraft universe.

I want a seasoned and grey-bearded Turalyon to return from the Twisting Nether - not the 30 year old pup from the Second War.
I want Illidan to come back, knowledgeable about his ill-doings in Outland, but willing to redeem himself and fight the Legion - not an Illidan unaware of all the things he would be doing.

There'd be no real character development in a time travel expansion. Just a lame geekfest and rose-tinted goggles extravaganza.

Which is why i'm hoping Warlords of Draenor is Warcraft 4 related & The Dark Below is WoW.

You forgot to add that we cannot kill Grommash. That would destroy wow canon and end the world. He kinda has to die at a certain time in a certain way.

Sorta what I mentioned at the " Killing Grommash at a certain point in time could also mean Garrosh never came to be-" part. And that was only one small part of what it would change.

Originally Posted by leaks

Well it's good to see the keyboard activists in full effect. Doing the laziest, most asinine thing they could think of off the top of their heads and calling it justice while making no difference.

Originally Posted by C9H20

Blizzard effectively wants to have its cake and eat it too by pretending to have this groundbreaking war in a faction capital while at the same time being completely unwilling to portray logical consequences of such an event.

Said poster also has only 1 post on a new account, edited by the owner of this website nonetheless (not a mod, THE FUCKING OWNER OF MMOCHAMP took it upon himself to edit this particular post)... and some believe it to be a misdirection by Blizzard or the staff of this forum.

I guess we will know for sure next week.

He edited the post because it provided real-life names of Blizzard employees.

Every expansion has been the 'worst storyline ever'. Every single one. Man, I hope you're not one of the people who complains about rehashing old content, because you're doing it like you were writing from a copy-paste of old posts.

I don't remember anyone initially complaining too much about The Burning Crusade and I remember very few complaining initially about WotLK. Pretty sure those were also the height of the subscription base.

Cata and Pandas.... yes. I like mop for the attention to detail that seemed to be lacking in Cata, but Panda's.... are pretty silly and feels like they just decided to put them in since it was popular on April Fools long ago. Deathwing... ok but everything in that expac was nothing but filler and red filter.

Which is why i'm hoping Warlords of Draenor is Warcraft 4 related & The Dark Below is WoW.

As much as I would quite literally KILL (note I didn't say what or whom or when or how) to see a Warcraft RTS, I think Blizzard has sort of set the slate of their portfolio with the current crop:

RTS - Starcraft
MMO [Fantasy assuming Titan isn't and I base this on the original concepts we saw from the scrapped idea] - WoW
MOBA - Heroes of the Storm
ARPG - Diablo
MMO [Low Fantasy or Science-Fiction/Alternate History] - Titan? Who knows.
CCG - Hearthstone (this game's launch also heralded the death of the physical WoW CCG/TCG so I think this gives at least a little credit to the idea that Blizzard doesn't really wish to compete in the same markets with multiple games with the exception of MMO because they're still popular enough to make it work and the business models for them can be quite varied)

I think it's more plausible for a publisher/developer to sport two MMOs in different settings right now than it would be to field two RTS games when that particular genre is seeing a lot of market-share-theft from MOBAs right now and Blizzard is entering that realm with HotS so who knows what we'll see from them but I can't see them going into the RTS market with another game when it's evident if I'm remembering right, that RTS (SC2 being one of the few that's even popular on a world-scale and has an enormous playerbase)

That said, I would MUCH prefer the Dark Below as a concept than heading into space or back in time - even if the Dark Below wouldn't end up being an underground endeavor, which was my hope as I think WoW could use an "underdark" type area that would let us get even more into the Faceless ones and the Nerubians (plus some guy had an amazing idea for this expansion to can flying mount additions and add a wall-crawling one instead...novel, but cool and would be a great departure... with the obvious bleh that its power would be lost in all of the non-UG parts of the world)

So, I'm with you in the love for a future for Warcraft as an RTS but the realist in me says it's highly unlikely. I'm also with you again, on the Dark Below as a preferred concept for the next expansion.

Who knows though? No one that isn't Blizzard can say before this weekend what the next one is and I think they will give us more than we're expecting.

My only real hope for what's next is that it is not some plot involving Grom and/or pre-invasion Draenor.