During the post-game news conference, it was apparently pointed out that, even though Clemson won, they were outgained 384-377, allowed five sacks and lost two onside kicks.

And how did Bowden respond to questions about the sloppy play and mistakes:

"We won. That's not something Lloyd Carr can say."

What the hell is that all about?

Now, I'm not familiar with any bad blood between Bowden and Carr. Nor am I familiar with Carr ever publicly saying anything negative about Bowden. However, if there is a feud and Carr's kept it private, then this was bush. And if there's not a feud, then this was just a dick comment, plain and simple.

Tommy is on the hot seat and grasping for straws in an attempt to point out his worth and accomplishments to the program. The only rerason he's still in Clemson is because he's a helluva negotiator, both in terms of his contract (huge buyout clause that scared admin from firing his previously that gets much smaller this year btw) and on the recruting circuit.I didn;t hear his post-game, but I'm sure he said the Carr comments in jest. Still uncalled for though.

At least he's not that guy from the Citizen's Patriot! I'm telling you, the Spartan fans are really setting themselves up for an embarrassment. Even the Buckeyes were more classy and supportive to grieving Wolverines after our loss to App State. Every Spartan fan I can think of laughed in our faces and celebrated. There are quite a few Buckeyes, especially the old school fans who have greater appreciation for the Rivalry, who have expressed sympathy and shared our embarrassment as Big 10 brethren. Jim Tressel and his players said they were not happy.

And another thing: the teams in the Southern Conference can sure play ball. While not on the same level as a BCS conference, they have held their own with the BCS. The SoCon could probably pass for a tough mid-major I-A conference.

Matt - you're right about the SoCon. App State, Furman, and 1 or 2 others would usually have winning seasons in a MAC-type conference. The Citadel typically would not. They haven't had a decent program since Charlie Taff was there 10-15 years ago; which makesthe Wisky game even more amusing. Furman is having an off year this year. They have won the I-AA national championships (2x in recent years I think) and have come close several times.

Anyone but Meyer or Mackovick? I see your point about Mackovick. Arizona is still trying to recover.However, Meyer has proven he can beat Tressel. I would think you all would jump at the opportunity to get him.

You see the shit we have to deal with down here? He thinks he can toss around cracks like Spurrier, but forgets that he has to earn it first. He has done nothing in 9 years at Clemson. Spurrier won that pathetic conference in 3 years at Duke.

Yeah, but Meyer seems kind of like a dick. I'm pretty sure he'd be a non-starter. We're not some school that likes to run it up or play games by pretending the other team might be terrorists.

And I think Bill Martin built up a ton of credibility with the way he handled the basketball search. He was thorough, patient and got his man. I don't know why you think he'd cheap out on what will almost certainly be a defining moment in his job.

"Yeah, but Meyer seems kind of like a dick. I'm pretty sure he'd be a non-starter. We're not some school that likes to run it up or play games by pretending the other team might be terrorists."

Look, you and I both know it's about winning lots of games, being in the BCS chase AND beating tOSU. That is the kind of school you are.Please.

Look at the comments from the last two weeks. UM fans were out of their freakin' minds.

You all would jump on Meyer if he desired to go slumming. The reality is that Meyer would have to look down his nose to take your head coaching job. What on earth would be in it for him? Better recruiting? Ha! The chance to beat Tressel? Been there, did that. Get to be part of the Big 10? Yeah, right. There’s a huge draw.

Could it be the adventure of taking a program in disarray and turning it into a national champ? That's the only possibility I can see and that my friend is a "non-starter."

I highly doubt Meyer would leave Florida. First of all, there is speculation that he was selected instead of having Spurrier return b/c he's buddies with the president. Second of all, I think that he just wouldn't leave. He did go to OSU but I think that he is quite at home in the SEC and in Florida.

I think he's an ass anyway. I don't like him and I think that he does have a negative relationship with Michigan considering what happened last year. He pretty much refused to give Lloyd Carr any sympathy over our embarrassment with App St.

I know that Schiano turned down the Miami head coach position and is quite comfortable in NJ, where he's from, but does anyone know if he is willing to leave for the Midwest? Supposedly, some thought that he would be a replacement for JoePa.

I like Kelly too...as a candidate to be interviewed. I'm sure we'll hear the same things, about how he is using Dantanio's recruits, etc. If Cinci can play competitive and beat one of Rutgers, WVU, and Louisville, he is more than a viable candidate, as is Leavitt.

Championships and BCS games are not all that matters. The integrity of the program is huge. A coach that says anything controversial to the media or belittling to other programs does not belong at Michigan. Meyer is out. Miles, the way he handles the media, IMO is out. Be like Bo. Cuss like a madman in practice and on the field, and be all class off of it.

The only thing getting Urban Meyer out of Gainesville now is the NFL. Any member of the NCAA who thinks they're going to lure him away from Florida is kidding themselves.

Leavitt's got some personal problems and is a real hot head - the 'Bama search revealed a lot of skeletons in that particular closet.

Tedford's your best bet, in my opinion. Les Miles has found a way to blow it at Okie Lite and now at LSU. His test is coming in October against Meyer.

I would look hard at Brian Kelly's performance this year at Cincinnati. It might not be enough to get a job like Michigan, but he will be a gap-filler when one of these other guys takes Martin up on his offer.

And what about Steve Mariucci? He's a Michigan native, right? Has he fallen off the face of the earth? He'd be a terrific recruiter - his personality seems perfect for the college game.

"Championships and BCS games are not all that matters. The integrity of the program is huge. A coach that says anything controversial to the media or belittling to other programs does not belong at Michigan."

OWS,

I know that's the socially acceptable spin and myth, but I can't buy it. The integrity of your program is already huge. Your integrity is not that which is causing your faithful to jump off tall buildings or cavort with kittens.

Hyperbole aside, you folks would tolerate a hot-head or smart-ass head coach as long as he brought the bacon home to A2. It’s about winning. Meow.

Does anyone realize that while Tommy may have acted like a dick for saying something like that, he's 100% ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

Lloyd lost to a division I-AA school, Tommy didn't.

You can't just act like that didn't happen because we beat up on ND last weekend. That loss will hang over this program for 10 years AT LEAST. It's an embarrassment - nothing any Michigan fan should have ever had to endure.

wetrock,sorry, but you don't have a clue about what you're saying. every school/alums/fans has its own culture or vision of itself. you don't buy ours? no offense, but we're not selling it to you anyway. it's our self perception, and your lack of "getting it" is immaterial.

don't get me wrong- i don't think you're trying to be rude (and i'm not either) but what we say and believe as the michigan faithful are just that, what we say and believe.

if you've learned nothing by dropping by and reading here, you should have come to understand that so much of what tosu fans consider "normal", either behavior, beliefs, or a part of being a tosu fan, is something we consider odd or inappropriate.

this is no different. the michigan culture IS different. for the sake of argument, i'll leave it at different, not better. but make no mistake, we don't see our football program as simply X's & O's. we want the W's, but our way.

we'd never hire Tressel (not really suggesting he'd leave, just using it as an example for comparisons). his record on thefield, his cute fashion sense, his spell binding press conferences aside, we'd never hire someone w/ his compliance/scandal record. yeah, yeah, yeah. i know all the standard tosu responses to that. doesn't matter that you think he's ok/happens everywhere/etc. we wouldn't have him. and the fact that you don't see anything wrong w/ his behavior just makes the point- we look at things differently.

so, when you hear that some fans here wouldn't consider Meyer? take it on face. hell. there's a strong element in the administration (starting w/ Lloyd) here that doesn't want to consider Myles. doesn't matter what other schools would do- that they'd line up to shower money on him- we don't things like other schools.

remember when we hired Amacher? we talked to Pitino? never had a chance- wasn't our "kind of guy". pretty stupid on our part? yeah, sure was. but it's the way we dothings. smart or otherwise, it's sincere.

Hear Hear SiC!!! Well said. I must admit that whetstonebuck has been one of the better behaved buckstache trolls in the visitor's room -- But...

I am so freaking sick and tired of folks perpetuating all kinds of generalizations and stereotypes about Michigan when they haven't the faintest clue.

For example Sparty and buckstache love to rant about the "arrogant and elitist scUM". arrogant and elite -- really??? How? Because we have to bust our ass to get accepted to Michigan? Because that hard work continues throughout the 4-5 years of our undergrad work. Or because campus life offers something for absolutely everyone's interests? Or because Michigan pulls in the most $$$ for a public research university? Or because we've got a great Alumni Association that takes care of each other? Or because Michigan grads foster life-long relationships with their colleagues?

Well if the pride and spirit fostered by going to a such a renowned school, with the benefits of all of the above, makes us arrogant and elitist, then so be it.

I don't necessarily expect an arsonist culture which justifies assaulting their fellow man in the name of "hey, it's a home game" and looks the other way at Maurice Clarrett because, "hey, all the schools are doing it" to understand. But whetstonebuck, don't think for a second that if the students and alum of Michigan hold our Maize and Blue community to a different standard, that we're not going to think the same way about the athletic department.

m93,what i find almost funny is that they call us "arrogant and elitist". then we act "arrogant and elitist", such as turning up our noses at an urban meyer because we don't "like the cut of his jib" or such, they accuse of, well, not really being "arrogant and elitist".

I totally agree with you. People keep talking about Les Miles as a candidate, but he is not always so appropriate in public. I'm not completely happy with Lloyd Carr as a coach, but I love the way that he represents our program, gamecalling aside. We need a coach who is good (of course) but also classy. Tedford is a very classy guy. I actually think Bellotti not so much (the Oregon hammer on the endzone?? WTF?)

Like I have said before, while Buckeyes are often completely out of line, they're in some ways better than Spartans. Those douchebags have been absolutely reveling in our recent mess. Buckeyes have too, but at least many have been sympathetic. I have only seen gloating from Spartans though.

Doug Mariucci? Uh, no thanks. On the other hand, Pete Carroll sucked in the NFL but worked out pretty well for the Trojans.

At a school like Michigan, the University President holds more sway than most people can fathom. Can the US News Rankings and their formula -- it's the largest research university -- that is the business Michigan is in, not football, and the football program must reflect that UM is a top 10 school by university president standards (job desirability and visibility). We are the only traditional football powerhouse on that list.

If you went to college to get a degree because it was what you were supposed to do after high school, UM is someplace you would not understand. A UM coach will be held to higher public relations standards, reflective of the university's mission, and winning and losing is not everything.

Someone like Tommy Bowden: not a chance. Nor Meyer. Nor Tressel. Nor Harbaugh. Likely not Miles. Those characters rub people the wrong way. Someone passionate like Pete Carroll (And I'm not saying these people are candidates, I'm demonstrating personality) yes. Anyone who throws other teams/conferences under the bus, someone who truly is ARROGANT like Weis...those guys will not coach at Michigan.

At Lloyd's worse, he said "I think some of the things the Florida coach said about our team were inappropriate." That is the most controversial thing that has come out of our coaches mouth in a decade, leading a scandal free program (nothing but minor violations).

I reserve the right to not know what I'm talking about. I also take your version of yourselves at face value. That's not an issue with me. Remember, I stated that your integrity is not at issue. My take is that regardless of the culture you perpetuate, human nature is what it is—even in Ann Arbor.

Observing your two-weeks of self-emasculation across the blog world suggests a few more disheartening seasons and your administration would be forced to “broaden” their hiring standards. Notice, I didn’t say the standards would become suspect; just broader.I'm not saying you would hire Coach Shifty, but people being who and what they are, I'm sure winning again would trump some of your beloved UM culture as regards the Head Coach. Winning means money. Money means greater access. Greater access equates to power. Same song, different singers.

As a side-note, I have no knowledge of shady doings regarding Tressel. First time I’ve ever heard such an accusation, but I'm not a rabid fan so I don’t do the research die-hard fans do. I don’t live in Ohio so the geographic war amuses me. Also, I love my couch and would never think of harming it. Oh, and most importantly, I don’t use the “F” word.

Clemson Fan & Grad here, love your Blog...been reading it for about a year. Your're pretty funny and right on most of the time. I have to ask why are you whining here? I have read about 15 entries by you over the past two weeks on how bad Michigan football sucks this year...Bowden says a true statement and you go ballistic? You want everyone to feel sorry for you when Ohio State fans say bad things about Michigan but when Tommy Bowden makes one minor statement you feel the need to rag him and his career by authoring an entire entry over a truth? I think you are being slightly hypocritical & probably over sensitive. Bowden may not have accomplished as much as Michigan or Lloyd Carr but at least he's never dropped a game while the at Clemson to a D1-AA school. That's all he was saying.

Let me take this opportunity to apologize for Tommy Bowden for hurting your feelings and I'll also be sure to send you a picture of a half naked chick to help you feel better.

It's not a question of his statement being true... it is a question of respect and class, which his comment lacked.

It's the same thing as if we win a close game against say Northwestern and Clemson lost to whoever they played that week... and in Lloyd's press conference, when a reporter asks him a question about winning such a close game... Lloyd's response would be, "Well, we won. Tommy Bowden can't say that this week."

Why does Tommy need to bring another coach and team that he doesn't play against... to answer a question about a 1-AA team... sure you can say that the reporter was leading him that way, but if he wanted, he could have pointed out instances of the game that made it seem like this was just a fluke.

It's the same as other universities being more excited about their rival losing than their own team winning.

yeah, this pissed me off too. It was an embarrassing thing to read by a CU grad. Here is what was really said, though:G. Hart asked Tommy what he could take away from the game given the yardage allowed and the five sacks, and Tommy said "a W......i take a w from it and move on. I bet if you asked the guys at michigan, they would say they would take the w." "w's keep me employed."

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