You know, I have to disagree that the drama is just on the women's side (or even always present on a women's team).

My DC team...totally drama free. Everybody confirms. Everybody shows up. Great bunch of ladies. Sometimes people are late, but that is because of the bridge, and when it does happen, everybody gets on the phone to help out, and we even had one woman drive up, jump out of the car, and toss her keys to another player (who didn't have to play due to a default), and run out onto court while the other player parked her car for her.

Indoor team...again, drama free. I believe this is due to the great organization of the two captains. Great camaraderie, too. I'm am *so* happy to be on this team, I can't even say!

Outdoor team...ok, yes, drama here. At least, last year there was, and it was mostly due to one member. So, I didn't captain this year, nobody stepped up to replace me, and I'm now on another team.

Now, I do think that many people come on here and make those assumptions simply because Cindy is posting them. Should I post every time a match goes smoothly? No! How boring!!!

I have seen horrible sportsmanship and rudeness from guys playing USTA as well...maybe they are just not as prone to posting it on a message board?

I've never seen the "drama" that is described in some of these threads. I've never seen any involvement of captians due to anything. All issues have been handled on the court - if there were any issues to begin with.

I guess this is why I post my posts. It is hard for me to believe that league play is a difficult as it is sometimes described.

I was thinking more about this, and why Cindy's team (and opponents) seem to be the source of so much drama.

I'm wondering if it has anything to do with the area we are in...a very competitive, stressful, 'keeping up with the Jones' area. When I visit FL, one of the things that I love about it is how everyone just seems much more laid back and relaxed. Not so around here.

And I'll say one more thing, and don't flame me because I don't mean anything detrimental about this.

I think 3.5 is just a tough level, and ripe for drama. You either have people who have maxed out their level of play (maybe they started later in life, maybe they are not athletic enough to progress - multiple reasons), or you have transitional folks who will get better but don't have the years of tournament or matchplay experience. Maybe this is a factor. Kind of the scenario of the player that "lives" for the win each week, or the player that doesn't really have the match experience to know how to handle some of these situations.

hey, i started this thread for all the guys who avidly read cindy's posts, and then overcompensate for the guilty pleasure by sneering at her, and by association, all women's tennis. they love the drama...i swear that they keep reading all the posts because they're hoping maybe, just maybe, one day, cindy will report on an honest-to-god, on-court catfight. with hair pulling! "frosted rose" uniform ripping! stay tuned for next season!

It is a relatively small number of people who misbehave. But their misbehavior is like ripples when a stone is thrown into a pond.

Also, keep in mind that I have played A LOT of USTA matches. I'd count the number, but I don't have time. Many of you have as well. Most go well. A few don't. Those make for some "Can You Believe It?" threads.

There is drama in men's tennis also. Probably from the same Dudes who cause trouble here at TT. I find it difficult to believe some of the more bothersome personalities around here are able to morph into Proper Gentlemen Who Have Been Raised Right as soon as they log off. Nah, I think they're probably jerks during most of their waking hours.

hey, i started this thread for all the guys who avidly read cindy's posts, and then overcompensate for the guilty pleasure by sneering at her, and by association, all women's tennis. they love the drama...i swear that they keep reading all the posts because they're hoping maybe, just maybe, one day, cindy will report on an honest-to-god, on-court catfight. with hair pulling! "frosted rose" uniform ripping! stay tuned for next season!

hey, i started this thread for all the guys who avidly read cindy's posts, and then overcompensate for the guilty pleasure by sneering at her, and by association, all women's tennis. they love the drama...i swear that they keep reading all the posts because they're hoping maybe, just maybe, one day, cindy will report on an honest-to-god, on-court catfight. with hair pulling! "frosted rose" uniform ripping! stay tuned for next season!

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Well maybe, but so far only women have posted. And so far nobody has these issues. So I don't know about the cat fight scenario. Sorry to bore.

hey, i started this thread for all the guys who avidly read cindy's posts, and then overcompensate for the guilty pleasure by sneering at her, and by association, all women's tennis. they love the drama...i swear that they keep reading all the posts because they're hoping maybe, just maybe, one day, cindy will report on an honest-to-god, on-court catfight. with hair pulling! "frosted rose" uniform ripping! stay tuned for next season!

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Heh, heh, Alice...I bet they are all lurking, wondering who will have the 'balls' to post first.

Cindy's posts are guilty pleasures for many on here, of that I am sure!

I was thinking more about this, and why Cindy's team (and opponents) seem to be the source of so much drama.

I'm wondering if it has anything to do with the area we are in...a very competitive, stressful, 'keeping up with the Jones' area. When I visit FL, one of the things that I love about it is how everyone just seems much more laid back and relaxed. Not so around here.

So, just a thought...not sure if others would agree or not.

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Nah, I saw some of the same kind of stuff in Memphis and St. Louis, with guys at 3.5 and 4.0, adult and seniors, and 3.5 and 4.0 mixed dubs teams, too. Unlike Cindy, I sometimes barked back at the transgressors - to my later chagrin. You know, stooping down to their level, etc.

I lost today also. I don't have any Huge Drama to report, but there is no way I can play with this partner again. I gotta run (need to take these kids to the pool!), but I'll come back later and tell you the problem. Too bad, because I think she's a neat person . . . .

I lost today also. I don't have any Huge Drama to report, but there is no way I can play with this partner again. I gotta run (need to take these kids to the pool!), but I'll come back later and tell you the problem. Too bad, because I think she's a neat person . . . .

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/flashback to scene in Red Dawn...."Avenge meeeee!!!!"

I rolled over her in the first set. Tight second...I got a bit sloppy, she starting dinking me (on the clay)...she gets ahead in TB...whistle blows...that's all folks.

*hanging head*

Truly a match I should have won. I will update more in the other thread...though, there was much drama! So, gosh, not sure where I should put it!!!

Sorry Topaz, it was meant as a general statement and not aimed at anyone in particular. Please don't read it as aimed at the three of you.

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Ahhh, no problem Shaun! I went into defensive mode, I guess, since I've heard there have been some ugly posts.

Yeah, it would be nice if everyone just did go out, have fun, play by the rules.

As is often mentioned in other threads, I think the people who don't necessarily play by the rules most of the time...don't know the rules. It usually, in my experience, isn't because of some kind of badly intentioned gamesmanship.

But then, I also think, in Cindy's last post (where the team hid in the bathroom), that that kind of stuff is what takes the joy and fun out of it sometimes. We must not let them do that!!!

There is drama in men's tennis also. Probably from the same Dudes who cause trouble here at TT. I find it difficult to believe some of the more bothersome personalities around here are able to morph into Proper Gentlemen Who Have Been Raised Right as soon as they log off. Nah, I think they're probably jerks during most of their waking hours.

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Can't believe I missed this the first time through. Can't put it any better than that. Well said, Cindy!

Ok, I won't put the whole match wrap-up in here, but just bullet the drama:

opposing captain turns line-up in late

opposing captain (who I was playing) late on court

opposing captain hooks me on about 10 calls (proud that I kept my cool though)...not sure if she meant it, or just that bad at calling lines

OP 'forgets' first set score (in her favor)

OP 'forgets' second set score (in her favor)

It becomes necessary for me to walk and talk her through the 3rd set TB

So, again, ugh...but I knew of her beforehand, so I was a bit mentally prepared, and didn't let it get to me, but was quite adamant in correcting her score mistakes, and started writing down so she could see it. Which, Cindy, amuses me...because I guess she makes her players write the score, but she wasn't doing it herself???

They were literally shouting for her at the desk because the whistle blew, we were on court, and they didn't have her line-up yet!!!

I will do my match wrap-up in the form of a multiple choice question so that all will understand the nature of the problem.

Q: If you are serving against opponents with heavy topspin groundstrokes, where should your partner position throughout the point so as to *increase* the chances that you will lose your serve?

A. Four feet from the net.
B. Two steps in front of the service line.
C. Halfway between the service line and baseline.
D. At the baseline.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Got your answer yet?

The correct answer is C, halfway between the baseline and service line.

I . . . I didn't even know what to do! Standing in no-man's land like that when your partner is serving seems calculated to make sure your opponents face no pressure on their returns but always have an easy out if they get into trouble because they can bounce it off of your shoetops. It's not like she started the match at the net and they blasted her so she felt like she needed to retreat. No, this is the way she positions in doubles.

Now, I will sometimes position a few feet back of the service line if my partner is struggling with keeping her return away from the net person, but I will immediately close to second volley position as soon as her ball makes it past the net person. I have to hustle, but I can do it. Or I will retreat to the baseline if she pops it up to the net person. I cannot even think of a time when I felt I needed to start the point on my partner's serve from anywhere other than in the service box.

The impact of my partner hanging around in no man's land throughout the match was that they spun the ball to her feet at will, and she missed 90% of these shots (as would I!). At one point, I said, "Boy, they're putting a lot of balls at our feet. I think we need to play the net tighter." No change.

Perhaps she thinks my serve is so weak that she had no choice but to surrender the net. If so, I would like to know how I was able to serve and volley successfully against these opponents.

She needs a partner who is a baseliner. I am not that partner.

I need a partner who will be ready to volley if I can force a weak reply with my serve. She is not that partner.

Ok, I won't put the whole match wrap-up in here, but just bullet the drama:

[snip drama]

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Oh, man. I gotta be careful here. I mean, this is a public board. Maybe this lady would see what I write here and recognize me. I will keep my remarks measured, just in case she happens to drop by . . .

SHE'S COMPLETELY CRAZY, TOPAZ!!! INSANE! WORST CAPTAIN EVER! People get onto her teams because they have no other choice, and then it is a race among the players to see how fast they can get off. Huge turnover, every year.

She lives in a paranoid world where everyone is out to hook her on line calls, and she tells her team before matches to hook the opponent if they suspect they have been hooked.

She and I partnered one time, and she would become angry with me if I exchanged pleasantries with the opponents, remember? The opponent said to me on a changeover, "Nice weather we're having," and I replied, "Oh, yes!" and my partner chewed me out. "Don't talk to her!" Uh, OK.

Well, I will see if I can avenge us both when my team plays hers. . . .

Again, one more time with feeling, this stuff is unbelievable!!! Either you guys are making it up, or it is the stuff of nightmares.

Just to let you know, this does not happen in the majority of the world of USTA league play. I'm sorry for you that this is happening. I don't know what else to say.

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Seriously...not making it up!

Again, it is not the norm. Other than bad line calls, none of my other players had any issues with their opponents. They all won, though, so easy to let some bad line calls roll off your shoulders.

Unfortunately, there are a few bad apples out there. I knew, once I saw I was playing her, what I was going to face. I think it was a good experience for me, so I know how to deal with such a player should I face that 'type' again. I played too sloppy in the second set, and it cost me. However, I didn't let her get to me! And of that, I am proud, because I don't think even a month ago that I could say the same.

And still, I'm not angry or upset. I just kind of have to laugh, and move on to my next match. 'Cause there's always another match!

And, she is the only opponent I've faced so far that hasn't *not* been a good sportswoman!

This particular league...I don't know...it certainly has its characters. You get tougher for playing them I think.

Hey Shell in another thread these same gals are deciding if its a good idea to to nail the net player in dubs off a short ball... Hopefully I have the right to point this out, I make no judgement its just an observation.

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you always have the right to make an observation. but it's inaccurate: what "same gals?" i'm the OP and i'm not participating in the short ball thread.

Have you guys ever thought of calling each other on the phone and just making it a private gossip session. I think what is so stupid is you guys posting your dirty laundry out here for all to see, and especially the ones you are gossiping about to see and read. Maybe that is why you do it here, maybe a passive/aggressive issue? Everybody has these same issues at times, it is just childish how you have to put it in a public forum. I am not trying to be rude, but this is my observation whenever i look at these discussions.

Have you guys ever thought of calling each other on the phone and just making it a private gossip session. I think what is so stupid is you guys posting your dirty laundry out here for all to see, and especially the ones you are gossiping about to see and read. Maybe that is why you do it here, maybe a passive/aggressive issue? Everybody has these same issues at times, it is just childish how you have to put it in a public forum. I am not trying to be rude, but this is my observation whenever i look at these discussions.

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The title of this forum is 'Adult League & Tournament Talk'. We are talking about things that happen in our Adult League matches. If you have a problem with that, I suggest you read a different forum.

I didnot mean to touch a nerve with you, I am merely trying to be an observer. The title caught my eye. And, I do not generally read this area for these reasons. I do think you all seem to have a problem with everyone you play and, every one who disagrees with you. At some point it may be helpful to reexamine your hostility towards others. I mean this kindly.

I didnot mean to touch a nerve with you, I am merely trying to be an observer. The title caught my eye. And, I do not generally read this area for these reasons. I do think you all seem to have a problem with everyone you play and, every one who disagrees with you. At some point it may be helpful to reexamine your hostility towards others. I mean this kindly.

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Please point out where I've exhibited hostility toward others? My opponent, the one who hooked me on many calls and was late...never did I say I was nasty. READ THE POSTS. I said I kept my cool and didn't let it get to me. You play enough league tennis, you run into hookers. We settled the score confusion amicably every single time. She even gave me a hug before she left the facility site.

YOU are looking for negativity...where there is none. Maybe YOU are the one with the problem?

You know, I have to disagree that the drama is just on the women's side (or even always present on a women's team).

My DC team...totally drama free. Everybody confirms. Everybody shows up. Great bunch of ladies. Sometimes people are late, but that is because of the bridge, and when it does happen, everybody gets on the phone to help out, and we even had one woman drive up, jump out of the car, and toss her keys to another player (who didn't have to play due to a default), and run out onto court while the other player parked her car for her.

Indoor team...again, drama free. I believe this is due to the great organization of the two captains. Great camaraderie, too. I'm am *so* happy to be on this team, I can't even say!

Outdoor team...ok, yes, drama here. At least, last year there was, and it was mostly due to one member. So, I didn't captain this year, nobody stepped up to replace me, and I'm now on another team.

Now, I do think that many people come on here and make those assumptions simply because Cindy is posting them. Should I post every time a match goes smoothly? No! How boring!!!

I have seen horrible sportsmanship and rudeness from guys playing USTA as well...maybe they are just not as prone to posting it on a message board?

Ahhh, no problem Shaun! I went into defensive mode, I guess, since I've heard there have been some ugly posts.

Yeah, it would be nice if everyone just did go out, have fun, play by the rules.

As is often mentioned in other threads, I think the people who don't necessarily play by the rules most of the time...don't know the rules. It usually, in my experience, isn't because of some kind of badly intentioned gamesmanship.

But then, I also think, in Cindy's last post (where the team hid in the bathroom), that that kind of stuff is what takes the joy and fun out of it sometimes. We must not let them do that!!!

Again, it is not the norm. Other than bad line calls, none of my other players had any issues with their opponents. They all won, though, so easy to let some bad line calls roll off your shoulders.

Unfortunately, there are a few bad apples out there. I knew, once I saw I was playing her, what I was going to face. I think it was a good experience for me, so I know how to deal with such a player should I face that 'type' again. I played too sloppy in the second set, and it cost me. However, I didn't let her get to me! And of that, I am proud, because I don't think even a month ago that I could say the same.

And still, I'm not angry or upset. I just kind of have to laugh, and move on to my next match. 'Cause there's always another match!

And, she is the only opponent I've faced so far that hasn't *not* been a good sportswoman!

This particular league...I don't know...it certainly has its characters. You get tougher for playing them I think.

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STN...please...show me the hositility? I have had *one* opponent that I have complained about, and none of it in a negative manner.

Then why is it necessary to brief your world on Tennis Warehouse about it. If everything is handled so well?
We all have situations that we handle but we do not have the need to tell this little community about it. Are you looking for validation? I just don't get it. But that is fine, I will go back to my real world, and don't worry, your attitude is why I never gather anything useful here. Passive/aggressive and pent up anger is what I read. Don't let it hurt so much, life is bigger than the tennis court.

Then why is it necessary to brief your world on Tennis Warehouse about it. If everything is handled so well?
We all have situations that we handle but we do not have the need to tell this little community about it. Are you looking for validation? I just don't get it. But that is fine, I will go back to my real world, and don't worry, your attitude is why I never gather anything useful here. Passive/aggressive and pent up anger is what I read. Don't let it hurt so much, life is bigger than the tennis court.

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This is a MESSAGE BOARD!!! People post things. Again, you have the option to not read.

In fact, I've had other people contact me who are disappointed that I am *not* writing up every match...because they enjoy following our progress and are able to see our love for playing tennis. I have wonder, again, why you are unable to see that.

There is much useful information on this board...but maybe you are blind to it because you are too high up and might on your pedestal and too busy judging the efforts of others?

I know life is much bigger. Which is why I wonder why some people get off on judging others and belitting their posts and efforts.

Again, show me the anger. Quote it. Since you say you see it, well...let us all see it.

You just did, sweethart, you just did. And to be fair, Topaz, I am catagorizing a number of you women together, and that is not fair. I apologize for that. I don't read it all so accurately to know the difference in all you ladies, I won't name names as there is no need. And, I am not going to research you vs. the others, it just seems that everytime I look here someone is feeling cheated, or lost because of what the other side of the net did, and how honorable and fair and reseanable THEY were. We all like validation but I think a new forum could be helpful, so Adult League and Tournament Talk could be just that, and How I was HOOKED and CHEATED and other DRAMA a whole seperate category, just for you and your cohorts! I am off, as I have had enough laughs for the day! A real 4.5 singles game. Much more fun. And validating.

I will do my match wrap-up in the form of a multiple choice question so that all will understand the nature of the problem.

Q: If you are serving against opponents with heavy topspin groundstrokes, where should your partner position throughout the point so as to *increase* the chances that you will lose your serve?

A. Four feet from the net.
B. Two steps in front of the service line.
C. Halfway between the service line and baseline.
D. At the baseline.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Got your answer yet?

The correct answer is C, halfway between the baseline and service line.

I . . . I didn't even know what to do! Standing in no-man's land like that when your partner is serving seems calculated to make sure your opponents face no pressure on their returns but always have an easy out if they get into trouble because they can bounce it off of your shoetops. It's not like she started the match at the net and they blasted her so she felt like she needed to retreat. No, this is the way she positions in doubles.

Now, I will sometimes position a few feet back of the service line if my partner is struggling with keeping her return away from the net person, but I will immediately close to second volley position as soon as her ball makes it past the net person. I have to hustle, but I can do it. Or I will retreat to the baseline if she pops it up to the net person. I cannot even think of a time when I felt I needed to start the point on my partner's serve from anywhere other than in the service box.

The impact of my partner hanging around in no man's land throughout the match was that they spun the ball to her feet at will, and she missed 90% of these shots (as would I!). At one point, I said, "Boy, they're putting a lot of balls at our feet. I think we need to play the net tighter." No change.

Perhaps she thinks my serve is so weak that she had no choice but to surrender the net. If so, I would like to know how I was able to serve and volley successfully against these opponents.

She needs a partner who is a baseliner. I am not that partner.

I need a partner who will be ready to volley if I can force a weak reply with my serve. She is not that partner.

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Is it possible she's positioned there because you serve and volley and she knows you prefer she cover the lobs on her side?

That said, I have a partner that plays right there, always. She's undefeated in 3.5 leagues over the past two years. (No idea why she wasn't bumped...) When I play with her I kind of play as a baseliner, for the few shots I get. I've tried serve and volley with her and it really, really doesn't work. Did you consider changing your style for matches you play with her?

Hey Shell in another thread these same gals are deciding if its a good idea to to nail the net player in dubs off a short ball-- Hmmm drama drama drama.

Hopefully I have the right to point this out, I make no judgement its just an observation.

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You mean the thread I started about going at the net player?

There's no drama there. It really is a question of tennis strategy and execution. I don't take it personally if someone goes at me at net, nor do I feel badly if I hit at the net player. I just don't happen to be very successful at it.

Seriously, though. Life (and discussion boards!) can be rather dull without drama.

Have you guys ever thought of calling each other on the phone and just making it a private gossip session. I think what is so stupid is you guys posting your dirty laundry out here for all to see, and especially the ones you are gossiping about to see and read. Maybe that is why you do it here, maybe a passive/aggressive issue? Everybody has these same issues at times, it is just childish how you have to put it in a public forum. I am not trying to be rude, but this is my observation whenever i look at these discussions.

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Walking into a discussion and telling the participants to shut up is almost always rude.

Is it possible she's positioned there because you serve and volley and she knows you prefer she cover the lobs on her side?

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These women didn't lob, ever. They hit heavy topspin groundstrokes.

Besides, one needn't be all the way in no-man's land to defend the lob, especially if you are as fast and athletic as this partner was.

That said, I have a partner that plays right there, always. She's undefeated in 3.5 leagues over the past two years. (No idea why she wasn't bumped...) When I play with her I kind of play as a baseliner, for the few shots I get. I've tried serve and volley with her and it really, really doesn't work. Did you consider changing your style for matches you play with her?

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What needed to change was our opponents. 'Cause they were hitting right at her feet, and she was missing.

I also know ladies who play in no-man's land with success. They have great half-volleys. The women I am thinking of do not move well, so this is their way of compensating. Believe me, if my partner were digging out these half-volleys, that would be less of a problem. But if you aren't going to make the half-volleys and you aren't going to be a threat to poach, what are you contributing by standing in no-man's land throughout the point?

Then why is it necessary to brief your world on Tennis Warehouse about it. If everything is handled so well?
We all have situations that we handle but we do not have the need to tell this little community about it. Are you looking for validation? I just don't get it. But that is fine, I will go back to my real world, and don't worry, your attitude is why I never gather anything useful here. Passive/aggressive and pent up anger is what I read. Don't let it hurt so much, life is bigger than the tennis court.

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Don't take this personally or anything but . . . you have a post count of 12. Which means about half of your posts have been used to come here and tell other people what they should and should not talk about (while being inaccurate in several of your statements). In what way are you making TT a better place by doing that?

Rather than heckle -- and yes, that is what I think you are doing -- try starting a thread yourself. Pick a new and interesting topic, say something interesting. Show us all how it is done. If I think your thread is interesting, I will comment. If I think it is lame, I will wander off and do something else rather than heckle.

Perhaps I shouldn't single you out, as heckling seems to be in vogue around here lately among the more ill-mannered TT members. But you have used a great deal of energy simply to tell us all how you are Above It All, yet you're right here reading and posting on the very threads you claim to detest.