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Re: Who's worth more - Hibbert or JaVale McGee?

I said I was going to bump this after every 10 games. it just so happens that the 20th game of the season was against the Nuggets and Roy and JaVale got to go head to head quite a bit. Well, Roy's defense has been solid despite his abysmal offense.

JaVale has been pretty consistent though. He still seems to do one goofy thing per game but I consider Roy's multiple point blank misses and bad passes are worse.

Head to head last night I have to give the nod to JaVale and that really really bothers me.

Re: Who's worth more - Hibbert or JaVale McGee?

Roy is still the guy I would want regardless of his offensive scoring slump. His defensive play is still top notch and he will break out of his scoring slump soon enough. I see it as much as an absence of Danny that affords the defense to sag at times and take Roy out of the game offensively.

Re: Who's worth more - Hibbert or JaVale McGee?

I said I was going to bump this after every 10 games. it just so happens that the 20th game of the season was against the Nuggets and Roy and JaVale got to go head to head quite a bit. Well, Roy's defense has been solid despite his abysmal offense.

JaVale has been pretty consistent though. He still seems to do one goofy thing per game but I consider Roy's multiple point blank misses and bad passes are worse.

Head to head last night I have to give the nod to JaVale and that really really bothers me.

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Re: Who's worth more - Hibbert or JaVale McGee?

I'm sure I'd throw some stuff at the screen for McGee's play, but watching the worst offensive play I've ever seen from a starting center has caused me to do the same... I guess at the end of the day I'll take the guy who shot 9/9... McGee isn't a complete zero on the defensive side the way Hibbert is on the offensive end.

Re: Who's worth more - Hibbert or JaVale McGee?

I'm sure I'd throw some stuff at the screen for McGee's play, but watching the worst offensive play I've ever seen from a starting center has caused me to do the same... I guess at the end of the day I'll take the guy who shot 9/9... McGee isn't a complete zero on the defensive side the way Hibbert is on the offensive end.

I'm more inclined to believe that Roy's offensive game would come back whereas stupid basketball Players will always be stupid basketball players.

Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

Re: Who's worth more - Hibbert or JaVale McGee?

You already have one McGee on the team in Green, why would you want two? Someone that can jump through the roof but that is it. Just saying....

McGee does not have the bball IQ that Roy has...so I agree. I also hope Roy gets it together. But McGee is two years younger than Roy, shoots for a much, much higher percentage and produces far more offense per minute played. He may even learn how to play basketball in time.

Edit: Take some time to look at McGee's offensive stats. He's doing a lot better than Roy and it didn't start this year. At the same time, Roy is a great defensive force. So, it's pretty close.

Re: Who's worth more - Hibbert or JaVale McGee?

I'm more inclined to believe that Roy's offensive game would come back whereas stupid basketball Players will always be stupid basketball players.

Javale made one boneheaded play but the rest of the game he was solid on both ends of the floor. He's a much better finisher around the basket and he still blocks/challenges shots and grabs you around 10 boards per 36 minutes. The Pacers game was the first time he played 30 minutes this year and all he did was drop 20 points along with 8 boards.

The key is that he's getting paid a lot less than Roy and with Javale I see him continuing to improve.

Re: Who's worth more - Hibbert or JaVale McGee?

I'm more inclined to believe that Roy's offensive game would come back whereas stupid basketball Players will always be stupid basketball players.

I pick Hibbert over McGee but regarding to what you are saying I'm not sure how high Roy's BB IQ is, he probably makes as many stupid plays as Mcgee per game but because Mcgee is such a goofy looking guy he gets the low BB IQ tag.

Re: Who's worth more - Hibbert or JaVale McGee?

I can accept that McGee is A better overall athlete, but has a low basketball IQ and has a history of being less than an all-in team player. I'm fine with Roy, though I am beginning to think we overpaid (though we were forced to do so).

The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

Re: Who's worth more - Hibbert or JaVale McGee?

I'm fine with Roy, though I am beginning to think we overpaid (though we were forced to do so).

Yeah, damned if you do damned if you don't. We overpaid, but we couldn't afford to get rid of a 26 year old center who showed improvement in each of his first four seasons. We had to pay him based on the upward trajectory he showed. It's all on him now though to continue to make substantial improvements. It will be extremely disappointing if he doesn't get better as he hits his late 20's.

Re: Who's worth more - Hibbert or JaVale McGee?

Yeah, damned if you do damned if you don't. We overpaid, but we couldn't afford to get rid of a 26 year old center who showed improvement in each of his first four seasons. We had to pay him based on the upward trajectory he showed. It's all on him now though to continue to make substantial improvements. It will be extremely disappointing if he doesn't get better as he hits his late 20's.

How did you expect him to get better? What new skill were you looking for?

Re: Who's worth more - Hibbert or JaVale McGee?

How did you expect him to get better? What new skill were you looking for?

I don't think that expecting a max player to average around 15 PPG is too much to ask for. Dipping from 12.8 PPG to 9.8 with a FG% of 10% less than last year is extremely disappointing. Obviously scoring the ball is just one aspect of the game, and thankfully Roy still has a massive defensive presence and tremendous rebounding skills. But I really don't think that hoping for Smits-like offensive production in the prime of his career is expecting too much. It will be very disappointing, IMHO, if his offensive game doesn't improve as he hits the prime of his career.

Re: Who's worth more - Hibbert or JaVale McGee?

Yeah, damned if you do damned if you don't. We overpaid, but we couldn't afford to get rid of a 26 year old center who showed improvement in each of his first four seasons. We had to pay him based on the upward trajectory he showed. It's all on him now though to continue to make substantial improvements. It will be extremely disappointing if he doesn't get better as he hits his late 20's.

Sadly, it's not on him. It's also up to us to make a team around him if he is to be our center piece. We have failed to do that so far. We did not "have" to pay him when the season ended last year. We could have matched the Portland offer as part of a trade. We could have let him walk to Portland and been a big money player in the FA market. We could have gotten in the D. Horward bidding/trade contest for a year. We could have done lots of things, but we did what the Pacers always do. We fall in love with our players and over estimate their worth like they are part of the family rather than an asset in a business that is always changing. I think we will overpay for West, overpay to keep Tyler and nake no movve to trade for assets we need at the end of this season. But that's okay, the family love atttitude is part of the reason I and probably most of the fan base are Pacer fans.

Re: Who's worth more - Hibbert or JaVale McGee?

I'd rather have Hibbert at around 4 mil less in salary. Unfortunately, that's just wishful thinking.

Portland spent their money on re-signing Batum and that isn't looking real good right now. Just think they could have gotten Hibbert at a max and re-signed Batum, and not be much better as a team than they are right now with how both are playing.

Re: Who's worth more - Hibbert or JaVale McGee?

Sadly, it's not on him. It's also up to us to make a team around him if he is to be our center piece. We have failed to do that so far.

Good post otherwise, but I think we did add pieces around Roy. George Hill and David West are solid players and produce nightly. Paul George is "emerging". We have the talent around him and considering he's by far the highest paid player active on the Pacers, he should be the stud. He's not been that. Hibbert is not playing as well as he did last year. He's taken a step backward rather than forward. We should be able to expect improvement over last year, but the opposite happened. At the same time, I am hopeful he will start playing better. We've all seen that from him. Slumps, then he starts playing like Tim Duncan.

Re: Who's worth more - Hibbert or JaVale McGee?

If given Hibbert and McGee to choose from for your future center, you'd be crazy to think McGee is your franchise player. A good backup, yes. A good starting center, no.

I know he had a big game against us , but you give him in the ball in the post and he'll throw up some awful shots. He's not a smart player either.

Look at some clips of him. He makes some awful decisions and not play in the post like most top 10 centers can do.

Roy, who is in an offensive slump, is probably one of the best defensive big men in the league. His defense will lead to the offensive game that was there last year sooner of later. It seems like some people aren't even watching the games and are pissing and whining, saying Roy is doing nothing and is useless.

I also feel like pessimism/optimism often gets in the way of logic and some people's remarks sound ridiculous.

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Re: Who's worth more - Hibbert or JaVale McGee?

Throw up some awful shots? Like every shot Hibbert has taken this year? Listen, make any argument you want, but DO NOT make the argument that we'd regret the swap offensively. One guy is shooting 58% from the floor, and the other is shooting 38%. That has to be the largest fg% comparison gap I've ever seen. 20%!? Are you serious?

Re: Who's worth more - Hibbert or JaVale McGee?

Throw up some awful shots? Like every shot Hibbert has taken this year? Listen, make any argument you want, but DO NOT make the argument that we'd regret the swap offensively. One guy is shooting 58% from the floor, and the other is shooting 38%. That has to be the largest fg% comparison gap I've ever seen. 20%!? Are you serious?

I feel the same way, Hibbert throws some crap shots too but he doesn't get as high as McGee so people don't notice it as much, they both make stupid mistakes too, the only reason I take Hibbert over McGee is because I think he is a better defender and a better passer nothing else.

Re: Who's worth more - Hibbert or JaVale McGee?

I don't think that expecting a max player to average around 15 PPG is too much to ask for. Dipping from 12.8 PPG to 9.8 with a FG% of 10% less than last year is extremely disappointing. Obviously scoring the ball is just one aspect of the game, and thankfully Roy still has a massive defensive presence and tremendous rebounding skills. But I really don't think that hoping for Smits-like offensive production in the prime of his career is expecting too much. It will be very disappointing, IMHO, if his offensive game doesn't improve as he hits the prime of his career.

But you said you wanted to see him improve, which to me means add things he didn't already have. It seems, in fact, you're just wanting him to shoot a good FG%.