92 Mens

Listing the jumps completed does not tell the whole story. Petrenko's jumps were more powerful. I believe he won that competition.

He also had a good long run as a pro. Considering that he didn't represent the USA during his eligible career, to have been so popular in the USA shows is something to respect. I was never crazy about him, but I did adore his Mambo with the doll. He had the audicity to poke fun at his own sport.

One other note: there are some who figure that Victor got "extra credit" for being the bronze medalist in the previous Olympics. I say "Posh". The ladies competition at the same Olympics also included the bronze medalist from the previous Olympics. Didn't get her any "extra credit"...

One other note: there are some who figure that Victor got "extra credit" for being the bronze medalist in the previous Olympics. I say "Posh". The ladies competition at the same Olympics also included the bronze medalist from the previous Olympics. Didn't get her any "extra credit"...

Posh Spice? Anyway, you're confused on two things.

1) Debi Thomas was most certainly not at the Albertville games.
2) I assume you were talking about Kira Ivanova, who won bronze in Sarajevo but finished 7th in Calgary. Things that people call "extra credit" only come into play in close competitions. Although 1st after figures, Kira basically melted down, finishing 10th is the SP and 9th in the LP. You should watch her calgary LP again, it's almost as bad as Latitia Hubert's from Albertville or Nicole Bobeck's from Nagano. After a while, Dick just ran out of things to say, it was like watching a car accident.

IMO Kira Ivanova pretty much gets the ISU All-Time What Was Up With THAT Award...... a mediocre talent AT BEST and how she won that bronze in Sarajevo I'll never figure out; ANYONE else in the top 10 after figures would have been a much more valid choice. Tho I will grant that at the 87 Worlds, she did actually show some semblance of style in her long program.

In addition, Wylie used to skate Pairs with Graham's daughter, so if he'd voted for Wylie in the long and no-one else did he would have been under additional scrutiny.

I forgot about that. But then you have the Ukrainian judge giving Baiul the nod over Kerrigan, even though his son was Oksana's former coach. Yet I think the only judge who managed to dodge the spotlight in 1994 was the Ukrainian judge.

[QUOTE=Jaana]LOL, Joe, this is what you mention in your previous message, as you see the words "eastern bloc was against Wylie" are there:

Originally Posted by Joesitz

Regardless of the Viktor preference, the eastern bloc was against Wylie. The EU put him in 5th place after the LP. Just in case it turned into a tie, Wylie would not rise above the second place. Oh, the subjectivity of it all!! :sheesh: .

Joe[/QUOTE

I rooted for Wylie and hoped him to win, I always liked his skating very much. But had to comment here, because one has to be fair...

You're rightJaana, but what I didn't type was that 'the beginning of the eastern bloc' because the EU was the unified team.. It was just the EU and Tchech that judged him way down the list concentrating on Petrenko, Urmanov and Barna. And Piseev wants to keep the judging in secrecy. Why? If all is fair, why not let the audience see who gave what to whom.

I've always been under the impression that Canadian and Rusian judges are the two most outraged biased against the direct competitor to their own skaters if their own skater is the Gold or Madel contender, they were never afraid of their scores to be out of the line. While the US judge were always more or less afraid been critisizing as National biased or their scores out of line. BG's comment is another example. JMO.

Canada and Russia do have that reputation, MZheng. I don't know whether it is justified overall or not. Just a different way of looking at the responsibilities of a judge, I guess. Is the judge there to represent his or her country, or to judge the skating? This is especially a tough question at the Olympics, when patriotic ferver runs high.

I very much support the movement to have the judges recruited, trained and paid directly by the ISU, so they do not have to go back home and face criticism in their own federation for not placing their homies higher.

This, of course, would mean that we will have to trust the ISU a lot more than most of us do now.

I thought that on the night, Wylie should have won. His second triple axel was wobbly, but he did have a running edge before hopping round into the double toe.
ITA about prior resumes etc, but Wylie was so much better than Petrenko in the long - faster spins, better choreo, super steps, amazing presentation skills - and it's hard to top Victor in that dept! - and gorgeous MITF. I think if he hadn't doubled that second lutz, the judges might have had a harder time justifying their placement of Petrenko. JMO

Part of what I think hurt Paul is that he had never won a National Championship or a World medal. Because of that, he wasn't as highly regarded as Christopher Bowman or Todd Eldredge (both US Champions and World Medalists).

I guess it's a matter of perception. I have always put Paul in the "highly regarded" category.

I guess it's a matter of perception. I have always put Paul in the "highly regarded" category.

Exactly. Every commentator I've listened to from his amateur skating days says the same thing - He was brilliant in practise and that the judges adored his skating but he never put it together when it mattered until those two nights in Albertville.

I think Wylie and Petrenko had similar mistakes...however, I think Viktor had more severe mistakes. After one jump, both hands were on the ice, and his butt was RRRIIIIGHHHHTTTT there as well! Paul had no such extreme mistake. Both had great energy, and good choreography, although I think Wylie's was better. I remember watching this, and my sister was very much for Petrenko...and after she saw Wylie skate, she said "oh well, silver is good for Viktor". I thought the same. I'm glad Paul is the quality kind of person he is, and was proud of himself and happy with his medal....but there will always be people who will think it should have been gold.

Barna, in my opinion, had very interesting choreography, but it was presently rather flatly that night, and the program was designed as more subdued, rather than the higher energy kind. I think that worked against him, because I think his presentation of it didn't reach the audience as much as the other two.

I thought the first 2/3rds of Barna's LP were excellent, but I think the fall and the final minute of music kind of deflated his program. I wish he'd chosen another cut of music to end it with, although I get what he was trying to do dramatically. It's not like Hamlet had a happy & peppy ending in the story.

Petrenko didn't end strongly jump wise, but the choreo & music picked up at the end. Paul ended with the footwork into 3-toe, Russian splits, then fast scratch spin to end. That Henry V program was just perfectly designed.