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So, I'm going to need some serious equipment, I'm not very technical, did my research and here are my thoughts. I'd like to know if the techies here concur.

Laptop vs Desktop
Although there are some seriously powerful 'Gaming' laptops on the market, I'm leaning towards a desktop PC. Here's why.

The components in a laptop are less powerful than in a desktop.

laptops heat up faster, decreasing performance.

laptops are more expensive

I can change components on a desktop, giving the machine a much longer life. (I reckon a very fast machine could last me 10 years)

Build vs BuyI was warming to the idea of building my first PC (with my 10-year-old daughter, who's a nerd), but then I found that buying some components separately has become very expensive due to bitcoin miners buying all the powerful graphics cards they can get their hands on.

Companies that build PC's are apparently less affected by this as they buy in Bulk (is this correct?).

So, I've sort of abandoned that plan and am now looking to buy a 'Gaming' PC.

I've looked at Apple, but a PC looks like a better deal to me with much more bang for the buck. (opinions?)

I was hoping to pull this off for about € 1000, but this is starting to look less realistic the more I look into it, so €1500 or €2000 it is.

I've configured my dream PC and it came out €4000, so that is way over the top.

My wishlist looks like this now:CPU: Ryzen 7 (apparently better at rendering video than the i7)
RAM: 16 Gig
GPU: undecided
Memory: SSD (I wanted PCIe but the ones I've seen are close to €1000 in themselves, so it's going to be a small SSD plus an HDD)
Plenty of cooling

Am I overdoing it?
Can I buy such a system of the shelf, what would be a reliable brand?
Any input welcome

So, I'm going to need some serious equipment, I'm not very technical, did my research and here are my thoughts. I'd like to know if the techies here concur.

Laptop vs Desktop
Although there are some seriously powerful 'Gaming' laptops on the market, I'm leaning towards a desktop PC. Here's why.

The components in a laptop are less powerful than in a desktop.

laptops heat up faster, decreasing performance.

laptops are more expensive

I can change components on a desktop, giving the machine a much longer life. (I reckon a very fast machine could last me 10 years)

Build vs BuyI was warming to the idea of building my first PC (with my 10-year-old daughter, who's a nerd), but then I found that buying some components separately has become very expensive due to bitcoin miners buying all the powerful graphics cards they can get their hands on.

Companies that build PC's are apparently less affected by this as they buy in Bulk (is this correct?).

So, I've sort of abandoned that plan and am now looking to buy a 'Gaming' PC.

I've looked at Apple, but a PC looks like a better deal to me with much more bang for the buck. (opinions?)

I was hoping to pull this off for about € 1000, but this is starting to look less realistic the more I look into it, so €1500 or €2000 it is.

I've configured my dream PC and it came out €4000, so that is way over the top.

My wishlist looks like this now:CPU: Ryzen 7 (apparently better at rendering video than the i7)
RAM: 16 Gig
GPU: undecided
Memory: SSD (I wanted PCIe but the ones I've seen are close to €1000 in themselves, so it's going to be a small SSD plus an HDD)
Plenty of cooling

Am I overdoing it?
Can I buy such a system of the shelf, what would be a reliable brand?
Any input welcome

Not to me.

Look I don't want this to turn into an irritating Apple vs PC debate, but I was rusted on Windows PC until fairly recently. I now willingly pay the higher costs of a stress-free, intuitive, works first time iMac. Just my 2 cents worth.

__________________A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Look I don't want this to turn into an irritating Apple vs PC debate, but I was rusted on Windows PC until fairly recently. I now willingly pay the higher costs of a stress-free, intuitive, works first time iMac. Just my 2 cents worth.

I see your point. I just chose an iPhone over an Android.

I'm undecided and could still pivot back to Apple if I see sense in that.

For choosing components and modelling a system before springing for cash, in case you do build, see PCPartPicker. Still have to research, but it does make life a lot easier. If in the States, finding good deals is apparently another good feature (I shop overseas, so cannot attest).

ETA: Yes to Rizen CPUs. I'm not in market, but AFAIK there's a new "threadripper" due from AMD that might be worth a wait if still imminent.

__________________Driftwood on an empty shore of the sea of meaninglessness. Irrelevant, weightless, inconsequential moment of existential hubris on the fast track to oblivion.His real name is Count Douchenozzle von Stenchfahrter und Lichtendicks. - shemp

Component prices has made building rigs at home a suckers game. It's not just the CPU but the RAM as well. So when looking at rigs, keep in mind an upgrade path. Adding memory, swapping out a GPU, adding storage. All of these actions are trivial on most PC builds, no so much on Apple.

Building hasn't been a value proposition for years. I would be hard pressed to build a rig now. As you mentioned, the prices are so out of whack, picking stuff up now is buyers remorse waiting to happen.

I would say your analysis is spot on. I was going to suggest looking at a generation back on graphic cards, but then I saw a 980, not even a 980 TI, being sold at over 1100 US. And they weren't even packing it in cocaine! If it's just for video editing and creation, you really don't need a balls to the wall GPU, just get those CPU cores.

A huge factor against building yourself right now is the current extreme pricing in the higher end video card market. Crypto currency miners have been gobbling up high end GPU's making many of them cost double right now due to demand vastly outstripping supply. This situation is likely to ease in the coming months but right now a customized PC from Dell, HP, etc. may be hundreds of dollars cheaper than building it yourself because the manufacturer buys the cards as an OEM at normal prices.

I would start off by saying that I am a big fan of building your own. I have done this for many years now. However, given what your needs are, I would suggest going with Apple as well. People who do video editing/heavy graphics design, ect... things of the nature, MACS were designed for this purpose. I often tell people that all those fancy PC commercials were most likely made on a MAC...lol. Just my 2 cents.

Not sure where you're getting your costings from, unless I misunderstand you. £1K for an M.2 SSD? Are you planning to compete with Google or something?

I plan on building one in the next month or two for my work (digital illustration), and including all the bits and pieces it's under £1400. As a matter of interest I tried to spec a Mac with the same capabilities; you're looking at 2-3X the cost but if you can spare the money it will probably save you some hassle.

I've always had my PCs custom built for me, and whilst it's not much cheaper to build one myself I've had numerous problems with builds being damaged in transit. Of course components can be damaged too but it's less likely.

__________________"I don't think I'm getting the most out of my computer. I turn it on... and use it as a light." - Harry Hill

I prefer Macs personally, but I know you can get a more a powerful rig for a better price if you go the PC route. For me, it is all about ease of use.

I will say that most of the editors and graphics people I know have at least one iMac in their office. Some are all Mac. So, you may want to go on video editing forums and see what sort of experiences those folks are having. Users tend to flock to the things that just work. And if most users are using the same stuff, it makes trouble shooting easier, too. Nothing worse than having a unique setup and no-one can tell you how to fix your problem. Except maybe having a Mac and hearing: you can only do that on a PC.

As to iMac vs laptop: I would go iMac. Those screens are just gorgeous and the laptops will throttle down if they get overheated. Small internal SSD and an external HDD is the cheapest way to get reasonable storage on an iMac, btw.

Not sure where you're getting your costings from, unless I misunderstand you. £1K for an M.2 SSD? Are you planning to compete with Google or something?

I plan on building one in the next month or two for my work (digital illustration), and including all the bits and pieces it's under £1400. As a matter of interest I tried to spec a Mac with the same capabilities; you're looking at 2-3X the cost but if you can spare the money it will probably save you some hassle.

I've always had my PCs custom built for me, and whilst it's not much cheaper to build one myself I've had numerous problems with builds being damaged in transit. Of course components can be damaged too but it's less likely.

That's one expensive SSD, I don't know why it's that price. You can get a decent 1Tb M.2 SSD for under £400, but I doubt there are many people who could get good use out of it. Personally I'd go for a small M.2 SSD for the OS and a larger SSD for storage; even with the latter at 1Tb you're still looking at under £350 for both.

As for the video, I guess it depends what you're doing with it. If you're doing heavy editing then you need the power, but basic editing and playback not so much. I just ran a 4K video file on my current set-up (a £120 2Mb GTX 1050 running in 3840x2160 on a Dell UP3216Q PremierColor) and it averages 34% GPU and 1.4Gb memory usage. Basically any modern budget graphics card (£150 - £200) wouldn't even break sweat for basic video editing. As I say, I don't know your requirements, but outside of hard-core gaming very few people actually need expensive graphics cards.

__________________"I don't think I'm getting the most out of my computer. I turn it on... and use it as a light." - Harry Hill

That's one expensive SSD, I don't know why it's that price. You can get a decent 1Tb M.2 SSD for under £400, but I doubt there are many people who could get good use out of it. Personally I'd go for a small M.2 SSD for the OS and a larger SSD for storage; even with the latter at 1Tb you're still looking at under £350 for both.

As for the video, I guess it depends what you're doing with it. If you're doing heavy editing then you need the power, but basic editing and playback not so much. I just ran a 4K video file on my current set-up (a £120 2Mb GTX 1050 running in 3840x2160 on a Dell UP3216Q PremierColor) and it averages 34% GPU and 1.4Gb memory usage. Basically any modern budget graphics card (£150 - £200) wouldn't even break sweat for basic video editing. As I say, I don't know your requirements, but outside of hard-core gaming very few people actually need expensive graphics cards.

Interesting.

Why did you choose to configure your system yourself instead of choosing a pre-build brandname?

Basically I can't get the components I want with a pre-built machine. I want SSDs, and a fast SSD for the OS, but I don't need oodles of storage and I definitely don't want HDs. I need a powerful CPU but I don't need much above a budget graphics card (even though I'll be using the PC for graphics, as my primary software makes very little use of the GPU but is heavy on the CPU). The PSU is a big deal too, because IMO it's the most important component, and most pre-builds skimp on the PSU. And lots of other stuff, like not paying more for super MHZ RAM when RAM speed makes little if any difference to 99% of set-ups. And there's the case, don't forget the the wonders of choosing a case.

(And of course I meant a 2Gb card previously, not 2Mb)

__________________"I don't think I'm getting the most out of my computer. I turn it on... and use it as a light." - Harry Hill

Basically I can't get the components I want with a pre-built machine. I want SSDs, and a fast SSD for the OS, but I don't need oodles of storage and I definitely don't want HDs. I need a powerful CPU but I don't need much above a budget graphics card (even though I'll be using the PC for graphics, as my primary software makes very little use of the GPU but is heavy on the CPU). The PSU is a big deal too, because IMO it's the most important component, and most pre-builds skimp on the PSU. And lots of other stuff, like not paying more for super MHZ RAM when RAM speed makes little if any difference to 99% of set-ups. And there's the case, don't forget the the wonders of choosing a case.

(And of course I meant a 2Gb card previously, not 2Mb)

Informative.

I'm still learning and assumed that a heavy graphics card would really help running things like Photoshop, Lightroom and Resolve.

I saw a guy on Youtube who had a custom editing machine with an 8GB graphics card and 64 GB of RAM. Thankfully that's apparently waaaaay over the top.

I wouldn't go for a budget GPU, as I might do a bit of gaming.

The off-the-shelf systems all have cases that are either boring or look like they were designed for teenagers who think that dousing yourself in Axe spray gets you laid.

Regarding graphics software it's worthwhile checking out how much GPU resource your packages need. Many will make good use of the GPU (I would guess Photoshop is in this category), so it's prudent to invest a bit more into that, but some rely on the CPU more. I've seen some terrible specs over the years, with people thinking they need a super-powerful GPU then having no money to spend on the CPU, or PSU, and ending up with a terrible, under-performing system, or spending a fortune on fast RAM only to find their motherboard caps its speed.

Many years ago I won an NVIDIA graphics card in a competition (can't recall what model). It retailed at around £2K so I sold it on ebay. People were incredulous, saying why didn't I use it in my own PC to produce 'a monster', and were confused when I told them it wouldn't have made the slightest difference to its performance (aside from the fact it would not have fitted and would not have worked even if it had fitted on account of the PSU not being up to the job).

Yeah, and cases seem to be something else that is skimped on for pre-builds, because it's difficult to judge the quality of a case without seeing it up close (and many of them are truly horrendous).

__________________"I don't think I'm getting the most out of my computer. I turn it on... and use it as a light." - Harry Hill

If you want to use Final Cut Pro X, get a Mac. That would be my main determinant in your case. If you like the Apple ecosystem with your iPhone or macOS, that is also a point in its favor.

But otherwise, buying an iMac is severely limiting your bang for your buck. An iMac has some very laptop-like limitations in hardware, and you have the Apple tax on top of it, and upgrading is very limited.

__________________As cultural anthropologists have always said "human culture" = "human nature". You might as well put a fish on the moon to test how it "swims naturally" without the "influence of water". -Earthborn

If you want to use Final Cut Pro X, get a Mac. That would be my main determinant in your case. If you like the Apple ecosystem with your iPhone or macOS, that is also a point in its favor.

But otherwise, buying an iMac is severely limiting your bang for your buck. An iMac has some very laptop-like limitations in hardware, and you have the Apple tax on top of it, and upgrading is very limited.

I'm sure Apple is very good, but I'm too stingy, don't use final cut and my office is in the mezzanine. I think it would be a waste to buy something that good looking and expensive and put it out of sight.

I'm leaning to having a system build. I already own a monitor, so that will be about a thousand bucks cheaper than an Apple I reckon.

Check the documentation for the image and video software you plan to use because many of the modern releases will use the GPU to accelerate encoding/decoding/rendering. The higher end GPU I had HP put in a customized $2200.00 workstation I bought at the end of 2016 cuts my video rendering/encoding time by 50%.

IMHO, the only reason to build your own is for the experience of doing it or if you really want and extreme or very specialized machine. You can get an off the shelf gaming pc for similar prices and a lot less hassle.

Building your own, to raise a contrary voice, is great, but depends on really knowing what you are doing to get a better result than off-the-shelf. Mainly I refer to knowing both what is needed in hardware for the specific mission(s) of use, and knowing the tradeoffs in performance.

By the way, as others have mentioned, booting off and using an M2 SSD for the OS is like greased lightning. Mine is only x2 speed, and it still knocks the socks off any SATA SSD, including my trusty Samsung 850.

__________________Driftwood on an empty shore of the sea of meaninglessness. Irrelevant, weightless, inconsequential moment of existential hubris on the fast track to oblivion.His real name is Count Douchenozzle von Stenchfahrter und Lichtendicks. - shemp

By the way, as others have mentioned, booting off and using an M2 SSD for the OS is like greased lightning. Mine is only x2 speed, and it still knocks the socks off any SATA SSD, including my trusty Samsung 850.

The OP says they don't need lots of disk space* either so raiding two m2 SSDs for either increased performance/space or reliability is an option on many mother boards.

*Not needing lots of disk is relevant because installing a second M2 requires so much bandwidth that you might have to sacrifice some SATA ports.

__________________REJ (Robert E Jones) posting anonymously under my real name for 30 years.

Make a fire for a man and you keep him warm for a day. Set him on fire and you keep him warm for the rest of his life.

By the way, as others have mentioned, booting off and using an M2 SSD for the OS is like greased lightning. Mine is only x2 speed, and it still knocks the socks off any SATA SSD, including my trusty Samsung 850.

Just to clarify...

M.2 is the connector, if people are looking for the really fast drives it needs to be an NVME. You can get SATA drives in the M.2 format (still handy of you're saving space) but they're easy to spot as they cost about the same as a standard SSD

__________________“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science.” - Charles Darwin

...like so many contemporary philosophers he especially enjoyed giving helpful advice to people who were happier than he was. - Tom Lehrer

First of all, if you are already familiar with Windows don't buy an Apple. Go with what you know. The hardware is practically the same, although Apple charges 2-3x the amount for the same computer.

If price is a factor, Apple is out.

I've used Windows for way over 20 years and Apple computers for 10. I'm not gonna talk about my preference, just saying I have a ton of experience with both. I built my own Apple computer btw (Hackintosh) for exactly one third the price of buying the exact same one.

You have a much larger selection of software with Windows. Also more open source and free stuff, and the stuff you need to buy is usually cheaper. Your support community will be huge with either.

I'd build a rig designed for video editing, not necessarily a gaming PC. You may not need multiple video cards for instance. A gaming PC would be fine though. Lots of RAM, lots of storage.

As for disk space, video editing can take an awful lot. Don't underestimate. you can always add more though, HHDs are cheap.

Agree the OP seems to be on the right track. Based on my at this point somewhat limited knowledge about specifics, anyway. Really it seems the whole thing has been going down a path of diminishing returns generally, at least for most (I'm not much for games any more).

Start adding RAM to a Dell build and see how much money you save, thay charge the earth once you past the basic loadout

For me;

I enjoy building my PCs, although I must get more patient when it comes to tidying the cables, but I also prefer to know what goes into my PC. The prebuilts that you buy at the store may have an Nvidia 1070 with an 800W power supply but if it's a Cheaptek graphics and a no-name PSU then I'm going to be wary where the savings are coming from.

Some PC builders are better than others but the first thing I look for is do they list the component brands and are they reputable brands (YMMV)

__________________“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science.” - Charles Darwin

...like so many contemporary philosophers he especially enjoyed giving helpful advice to people who were happier than he was. - Tom Lehrer

If you aren't in any particular hurry start perusing Craigslist for an old gamers "B" or "C" rig. It's the one he put together when he bought the latest and greatest. If he's into PC building he will list all the components (that he's very proud of). What you're looking for is the peripherals (nice PSU w/acceptable wattage, case, cooler (maybe water cooled and maybe he kept the hardware for your brand/type CPU). These don't come up very often so you have to be patient.

The GPU will probably last gen. but it might be enough for your needs until the bottom drops out of Crypto-currency thing. When you buy it he/she will start it up and you can see for yourself that it posts so all you have to do is install your new board,CPU and RAM (which is also getting expensive these days so maybe only one stick until the prices drop). If it doesn't post after your changes then it will be easier to track down the offending component.

Hi,
...Build vs BuyI was warming to the idea of building my first PC (with my 10-year-old daughter, who's a nerd), but then I found that buying some components separately has become very expensive due to bitcoin miners buying all the powerful graphics cards they can get their hands on.

Companies that build PC's are apparently less affected by this as they buy in Bulk (is this correct?).

So, I've sort of abandoned that plan and am now looking to buy a 'Gaming' PC...

A good middle ground might be to look a "bare bones" gaming system (TigerDirect - type of mail-order system - several other (more tech guru)places sell same types of systems and components), which can give you a good case, power system, motherboard and cpu to build around at a decent discount.

I'm surprised crypto-mining is still profitable at current prices and competition levels, and the market has been ramping up production of the more desirous graphics cards/chip-sets due to increased demand, it just takes a while for the ramp-up to be felt at the retail level. Build with what you can afford but keep an eye toward future improvements to allow you to plug-n-play as component prices drop back into reasonableness. The annoying problem I have with ready to compute systems is that their components are generally designed to achieve a nominal specific final result at a cheap enough price to make a profit, which means that when you decide a year later to add in some upgrades, it is often not a matter of swapping out a single component, but also upgrading power or other co-dependent components (occasionally including motherboard and case upgrades) in order to get the system you want to properly function.
Overbuild on the basics to allow for future wants and needs if you want a system to last you for a decade.

I recently heard a news story(I think from the economist though don't quote me on that) that governments and large corporations in in Russia and China seem to be getting involved in crypto currency mining. This was based on energy usage in a few out of the way places where it looks like entire power plants are devoted to black box facilities.

I've built before, then abandoned the idea. Part of the reason was that I found out that the idea of subsequently being able to replace just one part at a time was a myth. By the time I did want to replace something, the new equivalent parts had some new different connector to the motherboard, so I needed a new motherboard, and that came with new connector types for other parts, so I needed new parts for most of the rest of the computer too.

Look I don't want this to turn into an irritating Apple vs PC debate, but I was rusted on Windows PC until fairly recently. I now willingly pay the higher costs of a stress-free, intuitive, works first time iMac. Just my 2 cents worth.

Someone tell apple they are wasting money on a support department. No one must use it 'cause apples "just work"

I had a computer built for me a couple of years ago thinking it would last several years. But I found it was obsolete the following year, and I could not run doom 4 on it.
I find it perfectly adequate for surfing the web, but it's not fast enough for new games.

The answer I have come up with is to keep my computer and give up gaming.

__________________You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
Sri Ramakrishna
Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy

I've built before, then abandoned the idea. Part of the reason was that I found out that the idea of subsequently being able to replace just one part at a time was a myth. By the time I did want to replace something, the new equivalent parts had some new different connector to the motherboard, so I needed a new motherboard, and that came with new connector types for other parts, so I needed new parts for most of the rest of the computer too.

That must have been a while ago, the peripheral connections have been constant for over a decade, PCIE and SATA were introduced 2002 & 2003 respectively. DDR4 is younger as that was 2013ish. The issues can arise when you're looking at motherboard\processor as they get switched up a bit more regularly.

Upgrade issues with off the shelf PCs tend to be things like no spare RAM sockets, no space for extra drives, integrated GPU so no PCIE socket, no spare connectors on the power supply or a barely adequate PSU which can't power a new graphics card.

__________________“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science.” - Charles Darwin

...like so many contemporary philosophers he especially enjoyed giving helpful advice to people who were happier than he was. - Tom Lehrer

I'm sure Apple is very good, but I'm too stingy, don't use final cut and my office is in the mezzanine. I think it would be a waste to buy something that good looking and expensive and put it out of sight.

I'm leaning to having a system build. I already own a monitor, so that will be about a thousand bucks cheaper than an Apple I reckon.

If you already use Windows then forget Apple. Stick with what you know. You're videos will come out the same except for the cost.

After reading the rest of the thread I think you should find someone with some knowledge and have them build it.

Go to some editing sites and forums, figure out what you want to do, what software you want to use, figure out the best specs for a PC to run it, then give them the list and have it built.

Go to another forum and talk to people who use the software and find out what hardware they use. You may need the forum later for advice anyways.

there always the newest shinny object but the stuff a year or three old works fine for far less

Or just a single boot system!

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