Comments on: Virtual reality coming to Second Lifehttp://www.kurzweilai.net/virtual-reality-coming-to-second-life
Accelerating IntelligenceSat, 10 Dec 2016 00:21:36 +0000hourly1http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1By: Steve C.http://www.kurzweilai.net/virtual-reality-coming-to-second-life/comment-page-1#comment-145720
Steve C.Mon, 06 May 2013 00:50:17 +0000http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=190216#comment-145720I concur - especially in terms of the stabiltiy of SL in general. One might be able to compare SL to a "New World" colony hundreds of years ago. No one expected Jamestown to rival London ever, in fact, the colony's very survival was considered a success. In SL, we have a stable and growing entity that is mostly divorced from the monster corporations that dominate RL. And that's a good thing.I concur – especially in terms of the stabiltiy of SL in general. One might be able to compare SL to a “New World” colony hundreds of years ago. No one expected Jamestown to rival London ever, in fact, the colony’s very survival was considered a success. In SL, we have a stable and growing entity that is mostly divorced from the monster corporations that dominate RL. And that’s a good thing.
]]>By: Extropia DaSilvahttp://www.kurzweilai.net/virtual-reality-coming-to-second-life/comment-page-1#comment-144504
Extropia DaSilvaWed, 01 May 2013 12:09:25 +0000http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=190216#comment-144504Second Life can be sad to have failed only insofar as one can say a movie that makes a profit has failed if it nevertheless failed to be the summer blockbuster.Second Life can be sad to have failed only insofar as one can say a movie that makes a profit has failed if it nevertheless failed to be the summer blockbuster.
]]>By: Rand L.http://www.kurzweilai.net/virtual-reality-coming-to-second-life/comment-page-1#comment-143957
Rand L.Sun, 28 Apr 2013 23:38:17 +0000http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=190216#comment-143957I make my living within the economy of second life. It's true it hasn't grown as quickly or as large as some over-hyped proclamations said it would but it isn't dead. There are about a million active users, engaging in on order of a billion dollars worth of economic activity per year. Several of my friends build beautiful forest & urban landscapes for fun, while I develop and sell animated avatar models. It's true the interface and many other aspects of the technology could be vastly improved, and if the Oculus or other VR things can do that, all the better!I make my living within the economy of second life. It’s true it hasn’t grown as quickly or as large as some over-hyped proclamations said it would but it isn’t dead. There are about a million active users, engaging in on order of a billion dollars worth of economic activity per year. Several of my friends build beautiful forest & urban landscapes for fun, while I develop and sell animated avatar models. It’s true the interface and many other aspects of the technology could be vastly improved, and if the Oculus or other VR things can do that, all the better!
]]>By: mikeg1.1@netzero.nethttp://www.kurzweilai.net/virtual-reality-coming-to-second-life/comment-page-1#comment-143658
mikeg1.1@netzero.netSat, 27 Apr 2013 18:44:08 +0000http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=190216#comment-143658That would be cool!
But why not just use existing 3D TV systems?That would be cool!
But why not just use existing 3D TV systems?
]]>By: Eric Balingithttp://www.kurzweilai.net/virtual-reality-coming-to-second-life/comment-page-1#comment-143214
Eric BalingitFri, 26 Apr 2013 12:30:54 +0000http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=190216#comment-143214The rendering for display is all done client side with some tricks - i.e. world data is sent to the client, then rendered there. So the resolution of the Occulus would have no effect on the downstream data rate or format. The main problem is in connecting the motion sensing of the Rift to the user input (upstream interface) and the backend design which handles this kind of data. There are ways of converting Rift sensor input to key or mouse movements (mapping the upstream) in order to resolve the problem totally on the client side, but this is a temporary, patchy approach as it would in effect truncate the capability of the Rift. As an example, mouse look has no roll capability (as in yaw, pitch and roll).The rendering for display is all done client side with some tricks – i.e. world data is sent to the client, then rendered there. So the resolution of the Occulus would have no effect on the downstream data rate or format. The main problem is in connecting the motion sensing of the Rift to the user input (upstream interface) and the backend design which handles this kind of data. There are ways of converting Rift sensor input to key or mouse movements (mapping the upstream) in order to resolve the problem totally on the client side, but this is a temporary, patchy approach as it would in effect truncate the capability of the Rift. As an example, mouse look has no roll capability (as in yaw, pitch and roll).
]]>By: Jerryhttp://www.kurzweilai.net/virtual-reality-coming-to-second-life/comment-page-1#comment-143111
JerryFri, 26 Apr 2013 05:49:52 +0000http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=190216#comment-143111Snake, you'd have to rewrite the laws of physics to allow for a latency-free experience :P But gpu rendering server-side wouldn't be feasible either, the latency to Australia in most MMOs are around 200ms, though I guess for a select few, those closest to the server(s), might get down to 30ms. You'd still need to double that if you're doing server-side rendering, input-output, which is the reason why we're not moving to a thin-client gaming setup anytime soon.
The Rift has a low-res mode atm, 1280x800. The consumer version, which this one will target, has been suggested to be 1080p for each eye, but like any display output you could simply lower the output resolution to help reduce the bandwidth and hope for better performance/lower latency.
While my devkit is only just shipping now from the research I've done I think the biggest benefit would be using a 120hz display. This combined with some minor reductions in latency (of which they have done wonders since the kickstarter) would give a vr experience acceptable to mainstream audiences. Yes you'd need a decent gpu to run dual 1080p at 120fps, but I don't think that would be a barrier for those interested in VR.Snake, you’d have to rewrite the laws of physics to allow for a latency-free experience :P But gpu rendering server-side wouldn’t be feasible either, the latency to Australia in most MMOs are around 200ms, though I guess for a select few, those closest to the server(s), might get down to 30ms. You’d still need to double that if you’re doing server-side rendering, input-output, which is the reason why we’re not moving to a thin-client gaming setup anytime soon.

The Rift has a low-res mode atm, 1280×800. The consumer version, which this one will target, has been suggested to be 1080p for each eye, but like any display output you could simply lower the output resolution to help reduce the bandwidth and hope for better performance/lower latency.

While my devkit is only just shipping now from the research I’ve done I think the biggest benefit would be using a 120hz display. This combined with some minor reductions in latency (of which they have done wonders since the kickstarter) would give a vr experience acceptable to mainstream audiences. Yes you’d need a decent gpu to run dual 1080p at 120fps, but I don’t think that would be a barrier for those interested in VR.

]]>By: Editorhttp://www.kurzweilai.net/virtual-reality-coming-to-second-life/comment-page-1#comment-143059
EditorFri, 26 Apr 2013 01:23:58 +0000http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=190216#comment-143059Right. I'm visualizing a large bank of GPUs --- doesn't sound economically realistic. Plus users would need a very-high-bandwidth Internet connection (not sure what speed would be required to avoid excessive latency). Does Rift have a lower-res mode?Right. I’m visualizing a large bank of GPUs — doesn’t sound economically realistic. Plus users would need a very-high-bandwidth Internet connection (not sure what speed would be required to avoid excessive latency). Does Rift have a lower-res mode?
]]>By: snakehttp://www.kurzweilai.net/virtual-reality-coming-to-second-life/comment-page-1#comment-143056
snakeFri, 26 Apr 2013 01:08:54 +0000http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=190216#comment-143056I wouldn't get your hopes up for this, they can't even get the software to run lag free at low resolutions never mind at dual-1080p with no latency, which is required for VR (otherwise you would get motion sick in minutes). I would like to be optimistic but without a major engine overhaul (read: total replacement) it is going to be more or less impossible to implement Rift support into SL.I wouldn’t get your hopes up for this, they can’t even get the software to run lag free at low resolutions never mind at dual-1080p with no latency, which is required for VR (otherwise you would get motion sick in minutes). I would like to be optimistic but without a major engine overhaul (read: total replacement) it is going to be more or less impossible to implement Rift support into SL.
]]>By: Eric Balingithttp://www.kurzweilai.net/virtual-reality-coming-to-second-life/comment-page-1#comment-142883
Eric BalingitThu, 25 Apr 2013 14:59:17 +0000http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=190216#comment-142883The technology that will integrate all VR, AR for that matter, is a HUD (something between Google Glass and Occulus) with a fisheye version of Kinnect which points outward. This will allow the user to look forward, interact with objects in his/her environment and the device would be able to sense hand gestures (as it would have a phi angle of pi/2 from the forward direction) at the same time. Voice commands could also be processed. Virtual keypads, dialogs, etc. could be presented to the user through the HUD in order to configure the users gesture and command based interactions. In this way you could stand in your living room and interactively build objects in SL without having to twiddle with key combinations and menus. A good old mouse might also be handy for traversing the virtual world. :)The technology that will integrate all VR, AR for that matter, is a HUD (something between Google Glass and Occulus) with a fisheye version of Kinnect which points outward. This will allow the user to look forward, interact with objects in his/her environment and the device would be able to sense hand gestures (as it would have a phi angle of pi/2 from the forward direction) at the same time. Voice commands could also be processed. Virtual keypads, dialogs, etc. could be presented to the user through the HUD in order to configure the users gesture and command based interactions. In this way you could stand in your living room and interactively build objects in SL without having to twiddle with key combinations and menus. A good old mouse might also be handy for traversing the virtual world. :)
]]>By: Giulio Priscohttp://www.kurzweilai.net/virtual-reality-coming-to-second-life/comment-page-1#comment-142875
Giulio PriscoThu, 25 Apr 2013 14:38:33 +0000http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=190216#comment-142875Khannea and I were frustrated by the fall of Second Life, and still hope that a killer app may bring it back. I really hope the integration with Oculus Rift (or similar, watch for evolutions of Google Glass) may be the killer app that brings Second Life (and other virtual worlds) back to popularity.
One of the reasons, and I think the main reasons, for the fall of Second Life, was that the user interface is far too difficult for most users, or at least too difficult for today's attention-challenged Internet users who expect everything to be immediately evident without bothering to learn.
A 3D interface that imitates reality can be a great and intuitive user interface (if you see a door, you should go through, if you see a chair, you should sit down, etc.), but 3D on a flat 2D screen is not really 3D, and may make things more difficult and less interesting for the user. This is, I believe, one of the reasons why Neal Stephenson‘s Snow Crash vision of a highly immersive consumer virtual reality Metaverse is still science fiction.
Now, consumer VR headsets like Vuzix Wrap, Oculus Rift and future version of Google Glasses will permit real 3D interfaces to 3D scenes, and may wake up the sleeping Metaverse.Khannea and I were frustrated by the fall of Second Life, and still hope that a killer app may bring it back. I really hope the integration with Oculus Rift (or similar, watch for evolutions of Google Glass) may be the killer app that brings Second Life (and other virtual worlds) back to popularity.

One of the reasons, and I think the main reasons, for the fall of Second Life, was that the user interface is far too difficult for most users, or at least too difficult for today’s attention-challenged Internet users who expect everything to be immediately evident without bothering to learn.

A 3D interface that imitates reality can be a great and intuitive user interface (if you see a door, you should go through, if you see a chair, you should sit down, etc.), but 3D on a flat 2D screen is not really 3D, and may make things more difficult and less interesting for the user. This is, I believe, one of the reasons why Neal Stephenson‘s Snow Crash vision of a highly immersive consumer virtual reality Metaverse is still science fiction.

Now, consumer VR headsets like Vuzix Wrap, Oculus Rift and future version of Google Glasses will permit real 3D interfaces to 3D scenes, and may wake up the sleeping Metaverse.

]]>By: Khannea Suntzuhttp://www.kurzweilai.net/virtual-reality-coming-to-second-life/comment-page-1#comment-142836
Khannea SuntzuThu, 25 Apr 2013 13:23:32 +0000http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=190216#comment-142836Already ready to order one, as soon as the consumer version becomes available.
I look forward to meet Ramona there one day. That Chick seems like a lot of fun in 3D.Already ready to order one, as soon as the consumer version becomes available.

I look forward to meet Ramona there one day. That Chick seems like a lot of fun in 3D.