US Army have CAB's (combat aviation Brigades) linked with every division(infantry or armor), which is a multi-functional brigade-sized unit that fields different helicopters, offering a combination of attack helicopters APACHE, reconnaissance helicopters KIOWA, medium-lift helicopters BLACKHAWK, heavy-lift helicopters CHINOOK, and MEDEVAC capability.

This is like the 5th Brigade apart from the 4 infantry or armour brigades.

I understand that air superiority is required for deployment of such brigades, but the use of attack and transport helicopters in any operation doubles triples the precision firepower and the movement of infantry in different ops areas.

In Pakistan Army, none of the divisions have any dedicated attack helicopters. The cobras are stationed in multan primarily so they can be rotated easily towards north or south.

In addidition to that WZ-10 or AH-2 Rooivalk seem cheap but effective options for countering enemy armor columns. a Z-9 or Mi-17 platform with TOT is also required.

if PA wishes to keep the war on the other side of the border, then air superiority is required in any case otherwise IAF will decimate the ground forces entering in India. so the PAF has to give an air umbrella to PA in any case.

US Army have CAB's (combat aviation Brigades) linked with every division(infantry or armor), which is a multi-functional brigade-sized unit that fields different helicopters, offering a combination of attack helicopters APACHE, reconnaissance helicopters KIOWA, medium-lift helicopters BLACKHAWK, heavy-lift helicopters CHINOOK, and MEDEVAC capability.This is like the 5th Brigade apart from the 4 infantry or armour brigades. A Heavy Combat Aviation Brigades have two aviation attack battalions (24 x AH-64 Apache each), an aviation assault battalion (30 x UH-60 Blackhawk), a general aviation support battalion (8 x UH60 Command Aviation, 12 x CH-47 Chinook and 12x HH-60M) and an aviation support battalion to help with logistics.A Full spectrum Combat Aviation Brigades (formerly Medium) have one aviation attack battalion (24 x AH-64 Apache), one reconnaissance squadron (30 x OH-58 Kiowa), an aviation assault battalion (30 x UH-60 Black Hawk), a general aviation support battalion (8 x UH60 Command Aviation, 12 x CH-47 Chinook and 12 x HH-60M) and an aviation support battalion. I understand that air superiority is required for deployment of such brigades, but the use of attack and transport helicopters in any operation doubles triples the precision firepower and the movement of infantry in different ops areas. In Pakistan Army, none of the divisions have any dedicated attack helicopters. The cobras are stationed in multan primarily so they can be rotated easily towards north or south. In addidition to that WZ-10 or AH-2 Rooivalk seem cheap but effective options for countering enemy armor columns. a Z-9 or Mi-17 platform with TOT is also required. if PA wishes to keep the war on the other side of the border, then air superiority is required in any case otherwise IAF will decimate the ground forces entering in India. so the PAF has to give an air umbrella to PA in any case.

mostly, those deployed in fighting have these resources, dedicated ones, at their disposal...otherwise, for those which are deployed on the eastern front, these resources are controlled directly by Corps, moreover these are very few in number!

mostly, those deployed in fighting have these resources, dedicated ones, at their disposal...otherwise, for those which are deployed on the eastern front, these resources are controlled directly by Corps, moreover these are very few in number!

the soviets deployed 2 Mi-24 and 2 Mi-17 as standard configuration for inserting troops and assaulting locations in afghanistan to a good effect till the stingers arrived and ruined everything.it means that 2 cobras can provide decent cover to assaulting troops from2 Mi-17, so few numbers may not be an issue so far.

the soviets deployed 2 Mi-24 and 2 Mi-17 as standard configuration for inserting troops and assaulting locations in afghanistan to a good effect till the stingers arrived and ruined everything.it means that 2 cobras can provide decent cover to assaulting troops from2 Mi-17, so few numbers may not be an issue so far.

yep, tht wud be best used.....but prob in this case, which also happened here where i am now posted, is that the landing zone ought to be secured enough so that there is no incoming ground fire on the transport helis, there are different types of terrain, cobras cannot engage or give cover to own troops everywhere, there r places which are dangerous enough for a cobra to be shot down from surrounding peaks if it comes low for an attack!! Happened during one of the recent debacles, abt 2 weeks back....!

yep, tht wud be best used.....but prob in this case, which also happened here where i am now posted, is that the landing zone ought to be secured enough so that there is no incoming ground fire on the transport helis, there are different types of terrain, cobras cannot engage or give cover to own troops everywhere, there r places which are dangerous enough for a cobra to be shot down from surrounding peaks if it comes low for an attack!! Happened during one of the recent debacles, abt 2 weeks back....!

this is wht happens, heli borne forces drop in and hold a sensitive piece of ground for a specific time, while the ground forces rush and link up with them, however, if the the enemy delays or stops your ground thrust, the heli borne forces have a great potential of being ripped apart and killed.....best case study in this case is the Jaffna Heli university drop.......must read this.....http://en.wikipedia....ersity_Helidrop

this is wht happens, heli borne forces drop in and hold a sensitive piece of ground for a specific time, while the ground forces rush and link up with them, however, if the the enemy delays or stops your ground thrust, the heli borne forces have a great potential of being ripped apart and killed.....best case study in this case is the Jaffna Heli university drop.......must read this.....http://en.wikipedia....ersity_Helidrop

in vietnam war also, if the LZ was too hot, the helis would drop the soldiers a few hundred meters far from enemy fire and Uh-1 gunships would soften the enemy up to enable the soldiers to reach the target ground.

in vietnam war also, if the LZ was too hot, the helis would drop the soldiers a few hundred meters far from enemy fire and Uh-1 gunships would soften the enemy up to enable the soldiers to reach the target ground.

sure they did, but here in mountainous terrain, there are very few good LZs available, so we cant switch to another one at the last moment....plus vietnam doesnt hav high peaks and valleys, here if a cobra dives for an attack, there is a great risk that it may be shot down from an adjacent peak by some rocket!!!

sure they did, but here in mountainous terrain, there are very few good LZs available, so we cant switch to another one at the last moment....plus vietnam doesnt hav high peaks and valleys, here if a cobra dives for an attack, there is a great risk that it may be shot down from an adjacent peak by some rocket!!!

Mi-24's had good enough armour on them to protect them from small caliber weapons. Cobras dont have that much armour on them.also, after stingers arrived, chaff and flares were installed on Mi-24 to give them some chance against stingers, whats the status of cobra about such counter measures.

if the cobra isnt suited for the job in mountains that well then some other gunship should be considered

Mi-24's had good enough armour on them to protect them from small caliber weapons. Cobras dont have that much armour on them.also, after stingers arrived, chaff and flares were installed on Mi-24 to give them some chance against stingers, whats the status of cobra about such counter measures.

if the cobra isnt suited for the job in mountains that well then some other gunship should be considered

Cobras hav a device which reduces their IR signature, its situated at the back of the rotor assembly, seems lyk a little red round device, it helps minimize their IR signature and protects them from heat seeking missiles.....its all a question of resources, having enough good planes to do the job.....!

GB, regarding the Jaffna University Heli Drop, us ko zaroor parhna, its a good enough study, nowadays i am studyin the Sri Lankan Civil War as a case study, it has several points which are relevant to us as well, some are dangerous enough which, if tried against us, can be deadly....like preceding a conventional attack by a suicide bomber.....our army west of D I Khan is trained for LIC, while the army on the East is ready and trained for conventional warfare......but we are not at all prepared for a combination of these two......the Sri Lankan army suffered alot from this.....this is also combines arms strategy....lolx!!

Cobras hav a device which reduces their IR signature, its situated at the back of the rotor assembly, seems lyk a little red round device, it helps minimize their IR signature and protects them from heat seeking missiles.....its all a question of resources, having enough good planes to do the job.....!

what is enemy's response to night time ops of heli borne forces and gunships? are these effective and can be carried out?

GB, regarding the Jaffna University Heli Drop, us ko zaroor parhna, its a good enough study, nowadays i am studyin the Sri Lankan Civil War as a case study, it has several points which are relevant to us as well, some are dangerous enough which, if tried against us, can be deadly....like preceding a conventional attack by a suicide bomber.....our army west of D I Khan is trained for LIC, while the army on the East is ready and trained for conventional warfare......but we are not at all prepared for a combination of these two......the Sri Lankan army suffered alot from this.....this is also combines arms strategy....lolx!!

what is enemy's response to night time ops of heli borne forces and gunships? are these effective and can be carried out?

NOT AT ALL.....we dont even try flying at night......because if by hard luck u get shot down, it will hell of a rescue operation....! Last tym, once our UAV crashed and a whole unit was launched to recover it, meaning to risk 500 men for a machine......!!

NOT AT ALL.....we dont even try flying at night......because if by hard luck u get shot down, it will hell of a rescue operation....! Last tym, once our UAV crashed and a whole unit was launched to recover it, meaning to risk 500 men for a machine......!!

Thats a major drawback, night fighting capability is very important in any kind of warfare.

yes, saw the video of green arrow being fired at night. but a heli borne ops of cobras and Mi-17 drops at night is viable by PA?

It is feasible, provided the LZs are clear of enemy and AAA weapons, cobras need to suppress any kind of resistance before the soft skinned helis can land, plus helis shud be in large quantity for every lift, so that even if the first wave is cut off, they hav atleast enough strength to hold out!!

NOT AT ALL.....we dont even try flying at night......because if by hard luck u get shot down, it will hell of a rescue operation....! Last tym, once our UAV crashed and a whole unit was launched to recover it, meaning to risk 500 men for a machine......!!

Well then? Why should a night operation be any different from a day time operation???? If the foot soldiers are able to clearly see at night then what's the problem???

there is no harm in mounting such an op with regards to the attacking force, point is, the area/LZs ought to be cleared and secured so as to help the incoming flights bringing in more men and supplies....u need a lot of helis, both transport and gunships, to maintain a continous cover....plus terrain matters alot!

there is no harm in mounting such an op with regards to the attacking force, point is, the area/LZs ought to be cleared and secured so as to help the incoming flights bringing in more men and supplies....u need a lot of helis, both transport and gunships, to maintain a continous cover..plus terrain matters alot!

Brother, you are in the army so I will ask you a few very blunt questions:

1. Knowing full well that there are terrorist camps across the border in afghanistan in the kunar province right under american protection, why isn't the army aggressively attacking them along with their american protectors?2. Why did the army allow the nato supplies through? Did the army really got scared of the bucket of bolts they call the super carrier???3. Why is the army tolerating this pathetic, corrupt and inept government????

Brother, you are in the army so I will ask you a few very blunt questions: 1. Knowing full well that there are terrorist camps across the border in afghanistan in the kunar province right under american protection, why isn't the army aggressively attacking them along with their american protectors? 2. Why did the army allow the nato supplies through? Did the army really got scared of the bucket of bolts they call the super carrier??? 3. Why is the army tolerating this pathetic, corrupt and inept government????

yaara lemme tell you one more blunt thing, terrorists' base camps are right in front of us, at about 4-8 kms away, in Pakistan, PAF fighters make regular flights over them, but i dont know what stops them from bombing them......base camps in Afghanistan tau door ki baat hai, we arent even bombing corfirmed base camps in our territory....! if u want, i can send u lat/longs of one of them, see for urself on google earth, one of the units lost 7 dead, 6 had their heads taken off, its hardly 4 kms from the unit's locations, but nobody did anything....

Brother, you are in the army so I will ask you a few very blunt questions: 1. Knowing full well that there are terrorist camps across the border in afghanistan in the kunar province right under american protection, why isn't the army aggressively attacking them along with their american protectors? 2. Why did the army allow the nato supplies through? Did the army really got scared of the bucket of bolts they call the super carrier??? 3. Why is the army tolerating this pathetic, corrupt and inept government????

US is not leaving Afghanistan as per their Ambassador ,s interview so if we don,t change sides soon we will not be able to do anything about these insurgents who think yankee,s rule is fine but Pakistani Hippocratic regime is not acceptable..Honestly we have to brace ourselves for a long irregular war if we stick to our geopolitical interests or just give up and wait for just survive as clinte state

panzer keil , what about the latest attack on a PA post in DIR where 14 of our men were kidnapped and taken to Afghanistan to be executed ? military actually intercepted their comms to confirm location, yet cant cross over to hunt them ..

yep, thts a fact, there are alot of things we should do, which are also capable of doing, yet we arent doing, policy hi aisi hai!!!

Don't the ones fighting in afghanistan that the army is apparently supporting tell the chicken sh!ts (who don't go to afghanistan) to not fight you guys???

....those tht fight against us have a variety of reasons...uzbeks and turkmen were against us during the Afghan Jehad too, they still fight us, plus there are punjabi taliban too, men who hail from southern punjab and karachi too, they must have been thoroughly brainwashed......plus the ones we captured said that they were told that they were attacking ISAF posts at night, while the reality was that those are Pakistan Army posts, the low ones dont have any idea who they are up against.....so there are many reasons......!

....those tht fight against us have a variety of reasons...uzbeks and turkmen were against us during the Afghan Jehad too, they still fight us, plus there are punjabi taliban too, men who hail from southern punjab and karachi too, they must have been thoroughly brainwashed......plus the ones we captured said that they were told that they were attacking ISAF posts at night, while the reality was that those are Pakistan Army posts, the low ones dont have any idea who they are up against.....so there are many reasons......!

Please do list those reasons. I want to know. And how come these people are getting brainwashed? Why isn't the ISI exerting influence on them???

Please do list those reasons. I want to know. And how come these people are getting brainwashed? Why isn't the ISI exerting influence on them???

main reasons yahi hain which i just mentioned, they call us non muslims, we call them non muslims......how are they getting brainwashed?? religous seminaries hav alot to do in this...some are poor and do this just for money....regarding ISI that y arent they stopping all this, well, i cant answer that, as i said, these are policy level decisions, so whoever took them must have the right reasons!!

main reasons yahi hain which i just mentioned, they call us non muslims, we call them non muslims......how are they getting brainwashed?? religous seminaries hav alot to do in this...some are poor and do this just for money....regarding ISI that y arent they stopping all this, well, i cant answer that, as i said, these are policy level decisions, so whoever took them must have the right reasons!!

Do you believe that american is involved in encouraging terrorism in Pakistan?