I have been scoped twice over the many years of hunting and will order the HS long rifle scope tomorrow. Thanks again for your help.

Have your received the scope and mounted it yet? I'm curious what your opinion is now. I'm considering getting the Viper HS LR for my 340 WBY. I'd like to know how it holds up under that level of recoil.

Me and the gun smith tried everything to get good grouping with my 26" barreled AR-15 (5-6" at 100 yds)...... but everything seemed to fail. SO, two days ago we threw a Nikon Monarch on, (for testing) and now I have 1/2 " grouping at 100 yds, and 1 - 1 1/4 at 200 yds.

Don't mean to hijack or divert this thread, but on various forums I hear people claim they get .5MOA (or better) accuracy out of their ARs. They don't mention handloading, and few people I see ever handload for their .223/5.56 AR or Minis ('cept me).

My question is, if .5 MOA is attainable in an AR with factory ammo, (aside from caliber choices) why are we all shooting bolt actions with various stock/scope/ barrel configs and handloading to find the right accuracy node?

I have never seen an AR or Mini 14 hold consistent groups of .5 MOA, so I'm wondering if all my experiences are just too limited in that domain. The best my mini does is 4/5 in .7", and always a flier a few inches away @ 100.

Can ARs really be made to shoot .5 MOA and under? A super accurate AR in .243 Win, AI or WSSM would be the bomb!

Back to scopes...Yes I have a Monarch 4-16 x 42 SF, and love it. It holds a zero fine and the BDC system works great with their caluclator & custom loads! Now considering a Vortex PA with bdc for a change.

Don't mean to hijack or divert this thread, but on various forums I hear people claim they get .5MOA (or better) accuracy out of their ARs. They don't mention handloading, and few people I see ever handload for their .223/5.56 AR or Minis ('cept me).

My question is, if .5 MOA is attainable in an AR with factory ammo, (aside from caliber choices) why are we all shooting bolt actions with various stock/scope/ barrel configs and handloading to find the right accuracy node?

I have never seen an AR or Mini 14 hold consistent groups of .5 MOA, so I'm wondering if all my experiences are just too limited in that domain. The best my mini does is 4/5 in .7", and always a flier a few inches away @ 100.

Can ARs really be made to shoot .5 MOA and under? A super accurate AR in .243 Win, AI or WSSM would be the bomb!

Back to scopes...Yes I have a Monarch 4-16 x 42 SF, and love it. It holds a zero fine and the BDC system works great with their caluclator & custom loads! Now considering a Vortex PA with bdc for a change.

Not long ago, your statements about the accuracy of AR15's would be correct. Today's AR 15 is a different animal. People put long barrels on them and shoot up dog towns with them from as far away as the shooter has the skill. My Rock River Arms has a 3/4 MOA accuracy guarantee with factory match ammo. 1/2 moa with hand loads isn't that big of a stretch. As far as why we are still shooting bolt guns, 1st, why not. 2nd, a bolt gun has a stronger action. If the calibers are the same, a bolt gun will usually be able to handle a hotter round than an AR.

Good answers rdi...Its what I suspected. In fact I have a Browning BAR in .270, and the thing that makes it not as accurate as my bolt guns is the feel of the trigger, not the action...or at least that's what I've come to believe, since I can put 3 in the same hole, and a 4th is usually within 1" of the other 3...I think its the shooter / trigger interface, and on this gun I'm told it cannot be modified. Having said that, even in the AR article they talk about how the ARs are usually set up with a significantly higher force requirement to let it fly, which in itself makes shooting accurately more difficult. Few people with bolts set them at 5+ lbs.