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Sandi2: "I agree with you about something you said in a previous post. Something about how you stop beating yourself up for the mistakes and trying to fix them (the past). And, also how it seemed she reached a point that everything you did seem to be wrong in her eyes. I think that's true for many WAW's. It's like her threshold for tolerance is gone and finding any patience or understanding for her H simply goes out the window. It's a heart condition. A closed heart"

Great explanation... In honor of MLK day, A friend shared this quote and it seems to apply to DB as well and how to focus one's own thoughts & attitudes in these difficult sitch's:

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."

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Me:45, W:45S:16 D:13M:22, T:25Bomb: July 2010Putting finances in order for "D"Continue to live in same home-separate rooms

OM's still in the picture. It seems rather strange that you would make excuses for why she shouldn't just cut it off suddenly (b/c of the close group). Would you say the same if he lived closer, and there were more chances that he could be sleeping with your W?

How would I know that he's not still in the picture? I saw her text him for the first time in weeks the other day and she wasn't being secretive about it the way she used to be. I think they've cooled off.

And if they haven't, then what? She filed D. She's not interested in what other people think she ought to do as a wife or a mother. I don't think there is anything anyone can say that would convince her to let him go.

You don't have to convince me that an EA is serious. This EA was the catalyst for "ILYBINILWY" in my relationship. She never used those words. She said "Maybe my marriage was a colossal mistake".

I do know a fair bit about what went wrong with us. A lot of it is stuff I can't change - it's how we interact. I mean, I have changed, but it will take her a long time to see that with more limited contact. Like she has to know that if she sets a rule for my oldest daughter (her SD) that I think is silly, that I'll back her up on it.

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- All for the kids -Me:34, W:35M:7, T:13S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriageJuly 2011 "I think I need a separation"W filed D SeptemberCurrently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room

I almost sent her an email today, apologizing for what was basically the last straw for her.

I apologized mainly for making unilateral decisions and not taking her feelings into account or being sensitive to her.

I said I don't want to be that person any more. And then I wrote that I don't want to pour my heart out in emails that she won't respond to and that this would be the last one.

I don't send her those kinds of emails often any more, but they do happen. I've decided to make it a hand-written letter instead.

It's an earnest apology and it covers some new ground for me and for her. I think it has value and that she should see it but I've also been thinking about putting more distance between us lately. Someone commented that the bursts of cold from her could be a reaction to my feeling good about where we are going. Maybe I would to better to purposely avoid contact with her more often.

Or maybe it's better to just let nice times happen when they happen. I don't know. It's hard to play some sort of no-contact game when there are three complicated kids involved. The divorce made all of them more complicated.

Any thoughts on when it is appropriate to give my WAW letter? We're pretty comfortable around each other after having stopped most pursual behavior a long while back. I've also been thinking about having her join in on a DB phone consultation. I've got one left from my 3-pack and I think she'd come along. Obviously, I wouldn't push.

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- All for the kids -Me:34, W:35M:7, T:13S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriageJuly 2011 "I think I need a separation"W filed D SeptemberCurrently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room

I bought 3 phone sessions with a DB coach a little over a month ago when I was considering doing something drastic - moving out of my house - in the hope that my wife would put the divorce on hold.

I did move out. It [censored], but my marriage has some time. I see my kids at least 4 days a week. I could be doing worse. And my wife did put the divorce (originally filed in September) on hold.

I only used two of the sessions and decided to save the third for when I "really need it". I haven't talked to a DB coach about writing a letter.

My wife does come to counseling sometimes. She softens sometimes. I think she might be intrigued by the fact that I have a paid-for session with one of these coaches and might want to try it out.

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- All for the kids -Me:34, W:35M:7, T:13S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriageJuly 2011 "I think I need a separation"W filed D SeptemberCurrently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room

Here's the thing, Crimson has made a 180 in who he is as a man. He has faced things about himself that was very painful and he has changed what he had power to change and he's regretted what he messed up and now what he will miss. He knows that his M has probably ended and on the way to D court. He poured his heart out to his W in a letter, not begging her to take him back, but telling her she was right to be hurt. He spelled out the things he now sees that he didn't see when she was with him. He didn't just sum it up, but he took event after event and case after case where he screwed up. He talked about his behavior, his failings, his wrongs......not hers. He spoke from a pure heart of love and regret. It was what he wanted to leave with her.

Now, if he had tried this when his W first left, it would have fell on deaf ears, more than likely. But timing is everything. He had to grow, first. Hopefully, it has stirred her heart enough to listen to more. If not, then he is as prepared to move on as much as he possibly can be.

So, don't write a letter with intent of just apologizing. Not that you shouldn't apologize, but don't use it as a tool to pull her back. And, apologize for the new areas, as you stated, not something you've already apologized about. Don't try to win her back or beg for another chance. If you've done this already, then she's not going to hear you. She has to see real change. She wants you to tell her what you know you did wrong and what you've learned, and what you are doing differently. Otherwise, I don't think it will be enough to change her direction, but that's my opinion.

I agree about discussing it with your DB coach.

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It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!

W and I get along pretty well now. Or so I think. I've stopped most overt pursuing behavior and things go smoothly most of the time.

She's had time to get used to the fact that I'm not going to attack her or try to shame her into doing "the right thing". I've done that in the past, not knowing better.

Right now, I don't live at home, but I'm often there. I see the kids 4 days a week, but W and I don't spend much time in the same room.

I get frustrated when her ... mental condition prevents her from doing the right thing for our kids. I've asked several times for some simple things to help out our troubled S6 that would mean me stopping by to pick one of the kids up for a while and she doesn't respond.

So, it's hard not express frustration at her selfishnes. But I guess I have to let her act that way.

Why, lord, why can't I have my wife back? The nearly sane one.

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- All for the kids -Me:34, W:35M:7, T:13S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriageJuly 2011 "I think I need a separation"W filed D SeptemberCurrently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room

That is interesting. Especially that you say you were avoiding confrontation, because it seem like a very confrontational thing to do. CES and I are on the opposite side of this and I'd love some advice on how to get past it.

Not confrontational at all-it's actually passive-aggressive, all the frustrations and anger come out sideways. Have you read the book CoDependent No More? If not, it might be helpful for you.

Originally Posted By: AlwaysTrying

I think not being able to ask for what you need is a big problem. For my wife, it comes down to not believing you'll get what you need. She may not want me to do something with S that I did with D, but since I let her down before, won't consider that I will heed her wishes. So she won't ask, but instead boil over with anger until she's twitching with rage and has a tantrum - and at that moment, during the tantrum, I finally figure out what the anger is over.

It's going to take time + consistent change for her to believe you won't let her down. What kind of things did you let her down on?

Originally Posted By: AlwaysTrying

This would be easier if I could just read minds.

Wouldn't everything?

Quote:Look at what your W is saying for any kernals of truth, things you can work on because that's all we can do.

Originally Posted By: AT

You say you weren't making things up, but I bet your H felt like you were. Winner, winner, chicken dinner! He certainly did and I didn't take the times he brought it up seriously enough. Yes, kernels of truth are in there. I feel like I'm on the bomb squad when I'm wading through a seemingly irrational outburst and all of the distorted thinking to find the truth. It's nerve wracking. I have to keep her talking, despite the attacks, and try to find some meaning before she explodes.

I would do something similar to what I mentioned to ces-stop the "conversation" and say "I love you and I want to hear your complaint but I'm leaving until we can both talk calmly."

Originally Posted By: AT

I wish I could get my W to uncork all the pain and let it out.

That's hard because it's really scary. Probably fear, fear that you won't understand, fear that you will reject her or fear that she's unlovable. Another great book, How to Change Your Marriage Without Talking About It.

Is she in IC?

Quote:Does your W have depression? Is it being treated?

Originally Posted By: AT

Hmmm. I would ask this: Does any WAW dealing with the pressure of tearing their own family apart because they feel they don't have any other choice ever not have depression?

There are several types of depression, major, chronic, situational, undiagnosed and/or untreated depression is probably the culprit in many of our sitches. Part of my problem was that I was so depressed, tho functional, that I really didn't care anymore. Everything irritated me and I was constantly unhappy. Now that I am so much better it's scary how really sick I was.

Hope this is helpful.

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Me 57/H 58M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss