HurricaneKid wrote:Have you seen what Brandon Jennings did to him last night? 33 pts, 8 asst, 5 reb, 4 stl, 2 bl on 57%. IN JRUE's HOUSE. Sorry, I'm not seeing what you guys are seeing. Last year at least he was a terrible shooter but a good defender. Now he just wants to get his.

Better than Westbrook? GTFO. NOW.

in Jrue's defense, Brand Jennings would have dropped 30+ points on ANYONE when he's on like that.

I'm a Sixers fans and to me it looked like the crowd was hyped because they were going at it. It was pretty good defense, sure, but Irving's lack of control was what caused the miss. He was able to penetrate somewhat.

Beard wrote:He's solidified himself now as a top ten PG in the league, IMO.

As for the future, like you said he is still young, so I can see him making several all star games over the course of his career. The future looks bright for this young pup.

Not sure about top ten

I'd rather have...

PaulRoseWestbrook extremely low BBIQParkerWilliamsNash old, no defenseConley no offense, no playmaking abilityCurry no defense, injury prone, no playmakingRondoLawson small, liabilty other than scoringIrvingRubio no offense

I think right not Holiday is a solid starter on par with Hill, Jennings, Teague, Collison (Lin and Wall are wild cards)... obviously he's younger that a lot of these guys.

I think Holiday WILL be a solid top 10 PG, but right now he's more in the 10-20 range.

I take Holiday over the bolded. Holiday is decent at everything. A bunch of PGs you listed have a bunch of glaring flaws that is easily exploited.

That's good for you, but 30/30 GM's would call you insane. No matter what flaws Westbrook has, if he was handicapped or semi-retarded, if he can do what he does on the court every night and you're team is winning, you have absolutely no reason to even consider picking Holiday over him.

Westbrook is a better player then Holiday, plain and simple, and it's not even close.

It's not like Holiday is heralded as the greatest shooter, nor is he the smartest person on the floor. He makes mistakes, bone-headed plays too.

The underappreciated greats:

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser - SocratesSome seek fame cause they need validation, some say hating is confused admiration - Nasty, nasty Nas

look at the play right before holiday D'd up irving... he crossed irving and then scooped a layup around varajao...

holiday is sick on defense... PG's in today's NBA are going to score especailly with the PnR... its about limiting them as best you can... brandon jennings was going insane that night making everything... that wasnt a lack of D from holiday

iguodala called holiday the best defensive PG in the league and one of the best defenders period...

his turnovers have been down the last 3 games and will continue to come down..

he's shooting 45% from 3... and thats not a fluke he was about 40% last year IIRC

putting guys like curry and lawson and rubio ect ect around his level is a joke... those guys dont know what defense is

i think you also have to put holiday above irving right now as a PG... irving is a great scorer and will keep getting better, but as far as a PG right now he's not where holiday is

holiday is literally carrying us every game right now... someone posted a stat... hes 4th in assists per game yet as a team we are like 27th and 29th in scoring and in FG%....

just think about that for a minute... 4th in assists in the nba on a team that is horrible on offense and shooting horrible right now... and now low post threat at all

I think he's just creeping into the top 10 now, and I think he'll stay in the 7-10 range for PGs for his career. He might get lucky one year because others get injured to get an All-Star, but otherwise a fringe all-star throughout his career.