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TLS Members. I wanted to highlight my experience in getting selected for the Air Force JAG One Year College Program (OYCP) as a 2L. PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE ME. I wrote this for a law school student at a local school and I think I deleted all identifying information, but I may have missed stuff. I will be willing to take questions as well on my PM. I apologize for not writing this sooner, maxpayne!

APPLICATION PROCESS:

I was lucky enough to have sat in on a briefing with a Lieutenant Colonel who was talking about the recruiting process and how boards select candidates. He/she was on a board once and discussed how it works. Most of my knowledge comes from him/her, along with some other websites. If you ever have some time, I’d encourage you to read the Top Law Schools thread below. Captain Bateman and others have been incredibly helpful. I honestly don't think I could have gotten into AF JAG (my first choice of career) without their excellent advice. It is very informative, although it’s super long as it is five years of comments. I credit it with helping me craft the best package I could to apply.

Competitiveness: I begin with a section on competitiveness because I think it highlights the necessity of doing everything you possibly can to have the best package possible. For the OYCP program, only four were selected in the whole country in February, 2013. Last year, they selected two. The year before that, they selected seven. For Direct Appointment, the percentages are hovering around 5% selection rate. It is incredibly competitive right now and I am only underlining this point because I believe that every single aspect of your application is important. You need to work towards crafting the most compelling file you can to be selected. I am incredibly lucky to be selected. I have no doubt about that.

Timeline to apply: I started the application process in October of my 2L year. I tried to set up interviews with the detachment and with the SJA at the local base. You want to try to schedule those before the Christmas break if you can. Also, be sure to remember to give your LOR-writers plenty of time to write them. The board then meets in February and you hear back late Feb/early March.Totality of Circumstances: In the selection process, there is not one dispositive category they look at. Rather, they look at all of the factors together for a “whole-picture” approach. If your package is not as strong in one area, a stronger part of another section of your package may compensate for it. Having said that, they do weight things more heavily than others.

SJA Interview: The most important part of the process is the Staff Judge Advocate interview. You would go to your local base and interview with the SJA and also one of the Captains in the office. During that time, he/she evaluates you for a write-up he/she sends in with your package. He/she’s going to ask you about leadership, litigation experience, your resume, your motivation for applying. He/she’s going to ask you about your goals, about how you define success. And then he/she’s going to write several paragraphs about you. He/she must also include a recommendation: either to recommend to the board that they select you or not select you. This is incredibly important to getting a spot, and you want to make sure you do everything you can to shine in the interview. Of course, there’s always the admonition to be “clean cut, conservatively dressed, etc.”

Law school grades: The second most important aspect is your law school grades. They look at them somewhat intensely. You don’t have to be law review, but you do need to get good grades to a certain extent. I was not law review. I was actually top 25%, with Dean’s Lists every semester, so I had good grades, but not great grades as in top 10%. Air Force Internships: Boards look highly on Air Force internships, official and unofficial, because it shows your interest in joining them. Additionally, you may be able to get a letter of rec from a current JAG who could vouch for you. Make sure you apply for the official internships. Also, you may try to see about setting up something informal over at your local base and commute, if that’s something you’d be able to do. I was able to work in the legal office there and commute several days a week. I believe that that helped me immensely in my application process.

Leadership experience/titles: This is very important because as an AF JAG, you’re going to be an officer in the military. You will be a leader. Just because someone gets good grades in law school doesn’t mean they are leadership material. The Lt Colonel told me that they had a guy with good grades from Harvard but they rejected him because he wasn’t right for the AF, specifically because he didn’t seem to have any leadership ability. Do whatever you can to join clubs and run for positions and get those titles on your resume. I was president/vice-president/co-founder, etc. of several different groups.

Also, you might consider starting up a group at your local law school? Maybe grab some people who are interested and start a military law society? We did that at my school last year. Me and two other people started a Military Law Society and started promoting JAG work at the school. Just a thought. Public service experience: Volunteer as much as you can for public causes. Help with legal aid work. Donate time to local charities, etc. They also like it if you have public-service type stuff in your background. I’m an old guy and didn’t come straight through from undergrad. Before I came to law school, I lived for several years in a foreign country, doing missionary work and I think that helped me in my application.

Letters of Rec: These don’t matter a whole lot, but they do like to see that you’ve maxed out the number. So try to get five letters of rec if you can. Litigation/courtroom experience: They love moot court/trial team experience. If you can join one, that really helps your application, because you’re going to be in court a lot as a JAG. Also, take practical courses like trial advocacy and advanced trial advocacy. Also, make sure to take criminal law classes since you will prosecute people for crimes as a JAG. Undergrad grades: They look at them, but I don’t think they are that important. They’re definitely at the bottom of the list. My undergrad grades were bad because I worked full-time through school, so I had a very-low GPA, in the very low 3s.

Prior military experience is a bump of course. Frequent drug use, being in trouble with the law, school suspensions, etc. would hurt. ONCE SELECTED:

Timeline- You will be notified in late February/early March from the SJA you interviewed with. Then it takes a few weeks for the detachment to officially receive word that you have been selected from the AF ROTC HQ. You will then begin preparing to go to a four-week field training in Alabama with the other cadets during the summer. There is a ton of stuff to learn/memorize/understand and little time to do it. Let me just be honest. The month of finals was incredibly stressful not only working on outlining/finals, but also trying to learn so much to do well at field training. It was difficult, but in the end, I knew it would worth it.

The guys at my detachment are incredible, though. They go out of their way to help you prepare and get ready for field training. I’m just amazed at how kind they’ve been to me. Several of them met with me, one-on-one, and have gone through things with me to prepare for this summer. I wrote on my facebook profile that they are the best and the brightest of America and I stand by that statement.

After field training, you return and are a cadet at the detachment for one year. I go in on Wednesday afternoons/evenings for a leadership class. I will also have to take another class self-study. I will be expected to exercise three times a week, but the detachment commander, said I can keep a log. I don’t have to come in and exercise with the whole group at the detachment. So the time commitment during school is not too intense.

The time commitment preparing for field training while doing finals is, however. I can't emphasize this enough. If you always have to be on the sweet side of the curve, then it will be the hardest thing you've ever faced going to AF ROTC Field Training with little time to prepare. I hated it with a passion, but I'm looking the at long view, the big picture.

Following graduation, I will be commissioned as a 2nd Lieutenant, Inactive status. I will pass the bar and then be commissioned as a 1st Lieutenant. After 6 months, I’ll be promoted to Captain.

Pay: At field training, I was paid about $800 for the four weeks I’m there. On the recruiting website, it says you will be paid at an E-5 level (much more), but apparently, that is not current. When I return for field training, I will be getting a monthly stipend, which would be around $400 a month. And then when you pass the bar, you will be paid normal 1st Lieutenant pay.

I learned the hard way that the paperwork you bring with you to the interview is super important-it's what the SJA will submit to the board. Do every single thing it tells you (bring 2 copies of some forms, provide your entire work history on the back because there's a serious lack of space on the form itself), check and re-check to make sure it's all together. Don't think the paperwork is something you can do on the way or on the morning of your interview-it's not just paperwork, it's a way to see how much attention you have to detail. The acceptance rate may be 5%, but I would guess that >50% of the applications aren't "complete," which means that the applicant never had a shot.

Also, if possible have someone who knows what they're talking about go over it with you. For example, my picture was 1 not against a neutral background and 2 I had my hands in my pockets-both apparently looked upon unfavorably.

AFJAG2014 wrote:TLS Members. I wanted to highlight my experience in getting selected for the Air Force JAG One Year College Program (OYCP) as a 2L. PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE ME. I wrote this for a law school student at a local school and I think I deleted all identifying information, but I may have missed stuff. I will be willing to take questions as well on my PM. I apologize for not writing this sooner, maxpayne!

Great job on this. I'm sure this is going to be a huge help for the JAG hopefuls out there. Thanks for taking the time to hammer all this out.

andythefir wrote:I learned the hard way that the paperwork you bring with you to the interview is super important-it's what the SJA will submit to the board. Do every single thing it tells you (bring 2 copies of some forms, provide your entire work history on the back because there's a serious lack of space on the form itself), check and re-check to make sure it's all together. Don't think the paperwork is something you can do on the way or on the morning of your interview-it's not just paperwork, it's a way to see how much attention you have to detail. The acceptance rate may be 5%, but I would guess that >50% of the applications aren't "complete," which means that the applicant never had a shot.

Also, if possible have someone who knows what they're talking about go over it with you. For example, my picture was 1 not against a neutral background and 2 I had my hands in my pockets-both apparently looked upon unfavorably.

This is an excellent point. Attention to detail can be a deal breaker.

Don't underestimate the power of the picture. A great picture may not get you in the door but you can be sure a bad one will keep you out. I've seen some just weird photos in my day from otherwise qualified and talented applicants. Get it professionally done and keep it simple. Well groomed, conservative, court attire, etc.

When I served as the recruiting point of contact at my first assignment, I would review all the application packages before they got to my SJA to try and catch stuff like this early. Most legal offices are going to have someone at the Captain level who is functioning in that role - it would not hurt to ask them if they could give your application a once over.

First of all, AFJAG2014, that's a great summary of the important aspects of applying. I think the advice would be very similar for the Navy and Army.

My current issue is the with my Army Active Duty Application. You are only allowed four letters of recommendation. As I wrote on this board a few months ago, I was accepted to Marine JAG, but injured my shoulder (torn labrum) and was medically released in week 5 of 10 week OCS. Due to that happening, I wanted to make sure I had at least one letter from a representative of the Marine Corps to attest to my leadership qualities. I have actually gotten lucky and have a letter written by a Major and a Captain. I've also got a letter from a Captain (JAG) in the Army National Guard that I work with in our County's Prosecutor's Office. The other two letters I have come from my college baseball coach and a law school professor.

That's five letters, all of which I feel are very good. I'm thinking I want to cover all bases so I should take one from the Marine Corps, one from the Army National Guard, one from the coach, and one from the professor. As I just read and as I've realized throughout the process of applying to become a JAG, letters of recommendation are not the most important part of the process, but I think its vital that I have representation from the Marine Corps attesting to my abilities. This is the only thing that is making me wonder if I should make room for both the Marine Corps' letters on the application. Also, if it would look better, I have one from a Judge I clerked for the summer prior. I'm just trying to think of the best combination since the Army really limits us with only four LoRs. Thoughts anyone?

For the Navy, doing well at an internship can be huge. Most commands will rank their interns, if you can grab that top spot and get a good recommendation from a Captain (O-6), you are likely to be selected.

Well, today might be the day for the AF DAP results! Or at least sometime this week. Please post here ASAP if anyone gets a call or if anyone (Captain Bateman) knows the selectee list has dropped. Thanks!!

AF JAG attorney friend of mine has been checking on the status for me -- now she says we'll see AF DAP results in mid-Nov. More affected by the shut-down than they let on? Unclear. At least it means that not hearing so far doesn't mean a rejection!

eas1423 wrote:AF JAG attorney friend of mine has been checking on the status for me -- now she says we'll see AF DAP results in mid-Nov. More affected by the shut-down than they let on? Unclear. At least it means that not hearing so far doesn't mean a rejection!

Really? Wow. That is unfortunate. But, all we can do is wait. The only negative thing for me is that this is my second AF board with my first application being reconsidered for this October Board. So, I will have to re-interview and etc before the November 15th deadline, meaning I might be interviewing for the December Board with results from the October Board still pending. Oh well - part of the process. Good luck to all.

eas1423 wrote:AF JAG attorney friend of mine has been checking on the status for me -- now she says we'll see AF DAP results in mid-Nov. More affected by the shut-down than they let on? Unclear. At least it means that not hearing so far doesn't mean a rejection!

From my understanding, no one knows when the board meets or when results are going to be posted. Is that not correct? Does your friend know when the board meets (or met hopefully!)?

eas1423 wrote:AF JAG attorney friend of mine has been checking on the status for me -- now she says we'll see AF DAP results in mid-Nov. More affected by the shut-down than they let on? Unclear. At least it means that not hearing so far doesn't mean a rejection!

From my understanding, no one knows when the board meets or when results are going to be posted. Is that not correct? Does your friend know when the board meets (or met hopefully!)?

I don't know why the AF would keep it secret, we don't keep it secret.

AFJAG2014 wrote:TLS Members. I wanted to highlight my experience in getting selected for the Air Force JAG

This is a very informative post. A very good friend of mine, who I grew up with as brothers is very committed to becoming a JAG so I will ask this question on his behalf if you guys don't mind: He is looking to get into the Graduate Law Program as a 1L next year as he took a year off to do a few internships. He is currently unofficially interning at an air force base legal office and looks to have at least 5 months of volunteering and around 500 hours of unofficially interning on his resume when he finishes. He interned under the local mayor in our town for 7 months and got a very solid letter of recommendation from her so he does have some sort of public interest background. He also graduated top 10% with honors in poli sci from a small public college, in pretty good physical shape and was captain of most of our sports teams growing up. With 2 LORs from undergraduate professors, 1 LOR from our mayor, 1 LOR from a former employer and 1 LOR from one of the JAGs he works with, do you guys think he has a good shot at getting in with the GLP given his credentials above? I'll definitely tell him about this thread ASAP as I'm sure he'll get a lot of info from it. Thanks for any insight you guys may have!

Just talked with a past AF SJA - Results will be out next week. The October DAP Board is not meeting until tomorrow and the General will confirm the selectees later this week. Expect results next week.

I am going to go ahead and contact a local SJA to set up an interview and proceed forward with the December Board. If I don't get selected, then I will have momentum going into the Dec Board. If so, great! I will just cancel my interview and go from there.

spleenworship wrote:Can you actually apply for the December board without having October results? And if so, how?

I'm pretty sure you'd just interview before the November 15th deadline. If you find out you were selected in the October board, call the SJA and tell him or her that you were selected in the October board. They usually don't send your application packet to JAX as soon as you interview anyway, so likely they will just toss the new application packet if that happens. Maybe just mention at the interview that you are still waiting on October results, but you wanted to be prepared just in case you weren't selected in that board.

If October is your first board, you don't have to worry about reapplying (unless your interview didn't go so well the first time). You can just tell JAX that you wish to submit the same application for reconsideration. I believe they have the instructions for how to do that in the non-select letter.

maxpayne wrote:Just talked with a past AF SJA - Results will be out next week. The October DAP Board is not meeting until tomorrow and the General will confirm the selectees later this week. Expect results next week.

I am going to go ahead and contact a local SJA to set up an interview and proceed forward with the December Board. If I don't get selected, then I will have momentum going into the Dec Board. If so, great! I will just cancel my interview and go from there.

AFJAG2014 wrote:TLS Members. I wanted to highlight my experience in getting selected for the Air Force JAG

This is a very informative post. A very good friend of mine, who I grew up with as brothers is very committed to becoming a JAG so I will ask this question on his behalf if you guys don't mind: He is looking to get into the Graduate Law Program as a 1L next year as he took a year off to do a few internships. He is currently unofficially interning at an air force base legal office and looks to have at least 5 months of volunteering and around 500 hours of unofficially interning on his resume when he finishes. He interned under the local mayor in our town for 7 months and got a very solid letter of recommendation from her so he does have some sort of public interest background. He also graduated top 10% with honors in poli sci from a small public college, in pretty good physical shape and was captain of most of our sports teams growing up. With 2 LORs from undergraduate professors, 1 LOR from our mayor, 1 LOR from a former employer and 1 LOR from one of the JAGs he works with, do you guys think he has a good shot at getting in with the GLP given his credentials above? I'll definitely tell him about this thread ASAP as I'm sure he'll get a lot of info from it. Thanks for any insight you guys may have!

He also plans to volunteer at a base as a 1L though it would only be one or two days a week. I tried telling him that it may be too much to handle but he really wants to do it. You guys think it'll be too much to do especially during 1L?

The Army will use a full menu of involuntary separation programs, beginning immediately, to reach an end strength of 490,000 soldiers by the end of fiscal 2015, according to Army personnel chief Lt. Gen. Howard B. Bromberg. The service had planned to reach 490,000 by the end of 2017, but the accelerated strategy is designed to help the service prepare for any additional manpower cuts generated by sequestration and other budgetary matters. The new plan requires the Army to reduce the active force by nearly 42,000 soldiers by Sept. 30, 2015.

I think JAs should be OK because the branch did not expand like the other ones did. But at the same time, there are a bunch of O3s, O4s JAs who stayed in because of the economy. Plus, they likely took a bonus to commit a few more years. I suspect the Army won't be kicking those guys out. The easiest solution is to extend fewer offers.

AFJAG2014 wrote:TLS Members. I wanted to highlight my experience in getting selected for the Air Force JAG

This is a very informative post. A very good friend of mine, who I grew up with as brothers is very committed to becoming a JAG so I will ask this question on his behalf if you guys don't mind: He is looking to get into the Graduate Law Program as a 1L next year as he took a year off to do a few internships. He is currently unofficially interning at an air force base legal office and looks to have at least 5 months of volunteering and around 500 hours of unofficially interning on his resume when he finishes. He interned under the local mayor in our town for 7 months and got a very solid letter of recommendation from her so he does have some sort of public interest background. He also graduated top 10% with honors in poli sci from a small public college, in pretty good physical shape and was captain of most of our sports teams growing up. With 2 LORs from undergraduate professors, 1 LOR from our mayor, 1 LOR from a former employer and 1 LOR from one of the JAGs he works with, do you guys think he has a good shot at getting in with the GLP given his credentials above? I'll definitely tell him about this thread ASAP as I'm sure he'll get a lot of info from it. Thanks for any insight you guys may have!

He also plans to volunteer at a base as a 1L though it would only be one or two days a week. I tried telling him that it may be too much to handle but he really wants to do it. You guys think it'll be too much to do especially during 1L?

At my school, they encourage students not to work during 1L year, unless they are part-time students. 1L is hard enough without adding an internship on top of it. It depends on the person, but I would recommend not doing the internship until after 1L year.

AFJAG2014 wrote:TLS Members. I wanted to highlight my experience in getting selected for the Air Force JAG

This is a very informative post. A very good friend of mine, who I grew up with as brothers is very committed to becoming a JAG so I will ask this question on his behalf if you guys don't mind: He is looking to get into the Graduate Law Program as a 1L next year as he took a year off to do a few internships. He is currently unofficially interning at an air force base legal office and looks to have at least 5 months of volunteering and around 500 hours of unofficially interning on his resume when he finishes. He interned under the local mayor in our town for 7 months and got a very solid letter of recommendation from her so he does have some sort of public interest background. He also graduated top 10% with honors in poli sci from a small public college, in pretty good physical shape and was captain of most of our sports teams growing up. With 2 LORs from undergraduate professors, 1 LOR from our mayor, 1 LOR from a former employer and 1 LOR from one of the JAGs he works with, do you guys think he has a good shot at getting in with the GLP given his credentials above? I'll definitely tell him about this thread ASAP as I'm sure he'll get a lot of info from it. Thanks for any insight you guys may have!

He also plans to volunteer at a base as a 1L though it would only be one or two days a week. I tried telling him that it may be too much to handle but he really wants to do it. You guys think it'll be too much to do especially during 1L?

At my school, they encourage students not to work during 1L year, unless they are part-time students. 1L is hard enough without adding an internship on top of it. It depends on the person, but I would recommend not doing the internship until after 1L year.

Yea that's what I tried telling him. But do you think he has a shot at getting into the GLP or getting the official internship the summer after 1L?

Yea that's what I tried telling him. But do you think he has a shot at getting into the GLP or getting the official internship the summer after 1L?[/quote]

Honestly, I don't think anyone can give you a good answer for that one. The board looks at the whole person, so only they can tell you if he has a good shot. From what I can see, he has as good a shot as anyone else, so he should apply.

womeninblack wrote:Yea that's what I tried telling him. But do you think he has a shot at getting into the GLP or getting the official internship the summer after 1L?

Hey so a quick update on my "brother's" status. Looks like he's going to only be able to unofficially intern for about 8-10 weeks at base legal which is the length of the official internship if I'm not mistaken (correct me if I'm wrong). I read on this thread that someone did 9 months worth of unofficially interning so I'm wondering if it will hurt him if he's only doing it for approximately 2 months which is obviously a much shorter time. Granted, he has yet to start law school but are the boards more likely to look at him unfavorably for interning for a shorter amount of time especially since it's an unofficial internship ?