Before reading this thread, I was listening to a podcast which had an interview with Disneyland Imagineering legend Bob Gurr and he was talking about designing and building the Viewliner train in the late 50's. He mentioned how it would be difficult to make this type of attraction now because of the financial redtape and bureaucracy within the Disney Company

(Yes, the host are kind of silly but, hey, this is a podcast about Disneyland, not "This Week in Wall Street").

Many of the negative changes in Disneyland are both from internal and external sources. Some of the various safety modifications were mandated by the State of California. And some were because one person did something stupid so we all have to suffer and pay for it. Similar to plane travel and the fact that one a**hole tried to blow up a plane with his shoe, so we all have to take off our shoes before boarding a plane.

"Besides, Disney is a publicly owned corporation with the responsibility to provide an increasing return on investment to its shareholders."

I don't agree. Walt was planning much more long term; and selling that idea to investors isn't such a hard pitch. Clearly Walt designed the parks as a public relations showcase for his company, in today's terms a loss leader that utilizes the synergy of the Disney company to provide a lasting, many-generation positive image for the company. It's like charging somebody to watch a commercial. Clearly it's the rest of the Disney company that is faltering, relying on the steady park system now to generate cash instead of the other way around.

Not good business sense, not good marketing, bad long term goals. It's becoming more carny-like every day.

Well, while Disneyland has been apparently achieving ugly sister status here on the west coast, Disney World has been busy doing exactly everything I've been suggesting they do right from the start, including less expensive multi-generational hotel rooms, new updates that actually improve the wait in line, and giant new restaurants that look pretty fun and take advantage of 21st century ordering technology. I don't see any Pixar or Lucas crap, it's all Disney all day every day! They're doing everything right over there!

On 2007-11-28 18:22, lucas vigor wrote:I am a huge fan of yesterland.com, because there is a fairly good amount of information on the past glory that was Disneyland.

From a personal perspective, my happiest memories were of Disneyland pre-1983.

I had my traditions and rituals I engaged in while there, like:

I always rode the train first, and last. Waiting at the end of the platform and trying to see the first lights of the train coming out of the diorama tunnel gave me a huge boner. Now of course, anyone just sitting and watching gets you extra disney security scrutiny, and you end up feeling like a criminal. Anyway, moving on..

Next was breakfast at the hills brother's coffehouse, which was right on main street next to the the employee entrance to tomorrowland. There was one oval shaped room in the back that was done in the style of the blue bayou restaraunt in that it had a fake night-sky cieling with stars. I peeked in there recently, and they have that room as a storeroom. Some times we ate at the carnation breakfast place. As Cammo said, there were many shops on main street that had non-disney products for sale. A look at Yesterland will give you a complete list. We always went to the sunkist lemonade store on the way out. The magic/joke store had the cool fake barf patty I used to enjoy so much, and there was not a whiff of any of those accursed buzz lightyear toys anywhere to be found.

Lunch was at the blue bayou restaraunt, because back then you did not have to book a table 6-8 months in advance. We also ate frequently at the pirate ship, and had killer tuna sandwhiches. But really, all the hamburgers in the park had that classic "early big mac" taste. They were delicious. Not the rain forest cafe texturized carboard with the unmelted cheese they have now.

The lands: What can I say? Tomorrowland was a googie/futurist dream come true. Rides such as inner space, the subs, america sings (and before that GE house of the future-with the huge cityscape diorama you saw when exiting), the peoplemover were some of the kitchy-ist awesome rides ever made. Especially the peoplemover. You got an almost "backstage" view of things when the track carried you through the upper levels of the buildings. Circle vision 3D. Again, I got a boner when they came to the colonial williamsburg, V.A. scene and you heard the fifes and drums, and again when you started hearing steel guitar and the film showed you flying over the canefields of Oahu. That first experience gave me a taste of wanting to go to Hawaii for real. The views of the great lakes were also wonderful.

Now, tomorrowland lies fallow. Painted a depressing NEGATIVE copper-brown, instead of the hopeful, positive atomic -age white it used to be. All the best rides gone. The only good thing is that Rocket rod pizza port is now the best food in the park. That's a sad testimony right there.

Fantasyland. You could walk through the castle. It had awesome dioramas from the sleeping beauty story. I think similar items are now in one of the windows on the right as you leave main street and are leaving the park. But anyway, you could walk through the castle, rather then being pushed and jostled by the huge picture taking, moving day care facilities/lazy parents that now can be found dominating the castle area.
They also had the swiss skyway terminal, which was located next to casey jones, and is now unused and obscured by trees. I am sure it is destined to become a trading card buying area soon. The storybook land boat ride was always open, not just during peak tourist/surrogate day care times as it is now. And the motorboat cruise was a great way to see more of Disney's wild areas. The cartopia and autopia were TWO differen tracks, and all the cars were painted only in primary and secondary colors. There was not the hour-long wait there is now, because you had TWO similar rides.

Adventureland: They had the tahitian terrace restaraunt. What more needs to be said.

Frontierland. Except for the big thunder mountain railroad, there is nothing there anymore. You used to be able to buy wooden and steel musket rifle copies and fake civil war swords. Now they are plastic. The frito lay restaraunt had great tasting fake mexican food. Cafe zoccala, the replacement has food that is consistently terrible and overly pretentious (and expensive). Before big thunder mountain railroad, there was the mine train through the wilderness ride. Simply awesome. Way better then the calico mine ride at Knotts. The rainbow caverns were awesome, and I even have a CD that contains the background music, which was a ghostly and magical choir singing some wordless exotica music full of chromatic chords and would have fit in on any star trek episode. Some of the original small scale buildings are now visible on the ridge above the line of big thunder railroad.

New orlean's square. The haunted mansion was never shut down for three weeks and then converted into something decidely un-scary for the entire fall and winter season, (thus doubling, even tripling the line wait time.) It also was not politically correct, as back then no one sued Disney. Therefore they could really dim the lights and make the place look creepy, without worrying about some jackass falling down. Even the doombuggy loading area was creepy. The attic: The screaming ghoul heads scared the piss out of me, as did the bride with the glowing heart. Nowadays, with all the exit signs visible, and the ulitarian office -style carpeting, my own workplace scares me more. Of course, I am 43 not 10, but you get the point.

Disneyland has changed, and not for the better. Somethings they have done right, but most wrong.

IMFO

(In my f-ing opinion)

[ This Message was edited by: lucas vigor 2007-11-28 18:40 ]

Some of this stuff I still agree with, some I have come to accept, and some I have changed my mind about.......

Best food in classic Disneyland? Dole whip float.....and that new pork shank at the place next to the matterhorn. We eat it at the dining area that used to be the embarking area for the motorboat cruise. Innoventions actually has some cool stuff, but they removed the section of kitchen they still had that came from the GE attraction carousel of progress....

Ok, big thunder mountain has been closed for almost a year now...when they gonna re-open that sucker?

I am still pissed about the haunted mansion...ok, they close this ride right after July (which is blocked out for my pass) and it stays closed until october. Then it opens, the line is 10 times as long....so you can't really go on it unless you want to murder about 2 hours.

Halloween just sucks at Disneyland...all of october you must exit the park at 7 now for a badge only event...

While I still like parts of classic disneyland, I generally inhabit california adventure....which has booze and lots of great rides in cars land (see my cars land at night thread) but dammit they are closing down the garden grill, which had actually really good quasi-mediterranean food......

Someone needs to start a thread on why LEGOLAND sucks. I didn't realize most of the rides can only be ridden IF you have a small child with you. We made the mistake of taking one 4 year old with four adults (which would have been fine at DL), I paid $80 to watch my grandson ride 5 rides all day. The lines are bad because they don't have the DL efficiency of getting people on and off rides. They have wannabe carnies hawking games of chance (basketball shoot, coin toss, etc) everywhere at $10 a shot, as if they didn't scam you out of enough money already. The Lego sculptures are cool but many of them are aging and are badly in need of some DL-style upkeep. But my grandson had a blast _________________May we all get to have a chance to ride the fast one
Walk away wiser when we crashed one
Keep hoping that the best one is the last one

Parades: Once a month, not every night. I was laughing at Tom Slick's account of trying to "outrun" the parade. It rarely works. I know. I have tried! The parade is everywhere, and the employees with the safety cone lights are everywhere, and it all happens simultaneously. You only have a narrow window to make your move.

Strollers: You can't bring your own. You have to rent the small, reasonably sized stroller. They will be 20 bucks, which is perfectly fair since that is just about the going rate for a babysitter.

Tomorrowland: Paint it white.

Haunted Mansion: Never convert it to nightmare before christmas again.

Toys: Buzz lightyear toys can only be sold outside the astroblaster rides, and nowhere else in the park.

Remove the vegetables in tomorrowland: Replace them with the space age ferns and philodendrons that used to be there. Donate the vegetables to a homeless shelter.

Reopen rides you shut down for no real good reason, like the peoplemover and the skyway. I don't care if anyone dies on them anymore. It thins the herd, and no one needs more herd-thinning then a 70,000 member audience!

Entrance gates and ride capacity: Keep all the gates open. Use the supermarket philosophy: You see more then three at a check stand, open another!

New Orleans square: Fantasmic: once a month, not every night. The Woodstock-like gypsy camp that the guests set up in front of the river, HOURS before the show starts is a travesty. They need to call INS and haul all those people away for deportation. I am talking about the caucasian, American citizen guests. Haul everyone away! And take their filthy towels, carpets, mats and pillows away too! How did they smuggle that stuff in anyway? Are they the reason the security checkpoint line is so long, as they go through each article of clothing and bedding?

Balloons and Churros: No more balloons allowed. The kids bring them in the lines for the rides, where they constantly bump against you. Later, when they escape from the hands of the kids, they sail high into the air and land in the cleveland national forest where a deer chokes on them and dies. The churros: My kid always asks for one, and then eats only the first 1/3. We are stuck with the rest of it. I clocked my time in one churro line, and it was 23 minutes. 23 minutes for 1/3 a churro? That's fuzzy math! The employee was going as slow as humanly possible. People were buying 10-20 churros at a time, just before the fantasmic show, and this guy was moving at a snail's pace with this sad sort of smile on his face.

No more McDonalds: McDonalds is not Tiki, .....ahem, I mean not DISNEY!

Jungleboat cruise: Stop the madness! The jokes are only funny if you actually have people with comic timing. "Let's see if I can translate what they are saying.......nope!" You have to put a decent pause in there, when you do that line. And clean out the microphones. I can't even understand what you are saying! Thurl Ravencroft's original recording of the ride narrrative is excellent. Why not go back to playing it straight? And the brief spurt of mist as you enter the jungle? Last time I checked, it's always raining in a real rainforest. How come only the giant spiders get wet? Soak those guests the whole time! As one poster said, the smell of Disney water is one of the few excellent things they still do. Chlorine and anti-fungul chemicals are delicious! Drop buckets on the passengers!

I could go on and on, but others here have already posted better stuff!

On 2013-10-14 17:41, MadDogMike wrote:Someone needs to start a thread on why LEGOLAND sucks. I didn't realize most of the rides can only be ridden IF you have a small child with you. We made the mistake of taking one 4 year old with four adults (which would have been fine at DL), I paid $80 to watch my grandson ride 5 rides all day.
...

LEGOLAND is a bargain if you go with children and outrageously expensive if only adults go. A few years back I went to LEGOLAND on the way back from Tiki Oasis and got in with a shopping pass. Free admission for 1 hour. You got to rush through but you can see a lot. Many theme parks, including Disneyland, had shopping passes but in recent years have phases them out. Not sure if LEGOLAND still has them available.

One of the LEGOLAND rides is sponsored by Volvo. That's got to be the only thing in the USA sponsored by Volvo. I don't think Volvo has a very large presence in NASCAR.