Comments on: NHL files class action complaint, unfair labor charge against NHLPAhttp://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/14/nhl-files-class-action-complaint-unfair-labor-charge-against-nhlpa/
ProHockeyTalk on NBCSports.comWed, 04 Mar 2015 00:03:17 +0000hourly1http://wordpress.com/By: badintenthttp://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/14/nhl-files-class-action-complaint-unfair-labor-charge-against-nhlpa/comment-page-1/#comment-119190
Tue, 18 Dec 2012 06:10:32 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=884154#comment-119190@drewthelight bulb
Why should I look it up ? Then you’d lose your day job. Hurry up, you’re late for your union meeting for the wildcat strikes
]]>By: drewsylvaniahttp://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/14/nhl-files-class-action-complaint-unfair-labor-charge-against-nhlpa/comment-page-1/#comment-119129
Tue, 18 Dec 2012 00:13:21 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=884154#comment-119129Classic trolling stupidity. You could at least look up “socialism” in the dictionary before using the word.
]]>By: badintenthttp://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/14/nhl-files-class-action-complaint-unfair-labor-charge-against-nhlpa/comment-page-1/#comment-118772
Sat, 15 Dec 2012 21:16:25 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=884154#comment-118772Keep the great videos coming, Have a great winter skiing Big White & Silver Star !!!
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Sat, 15 Dec 2012 19:30:12 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=884154#comment-118750R.I.P. NHL. They’ve (owners & players) effectively killed their league (IMHO).
]]>By: shotzongoalhttp://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/14/nhl-files-class-action-complaint-unfair-labor-charge-against-nhlpa/comment-page-1/#comment-118747
Sat, 15 Dec 2012 19:21:31 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=884154#comment-118747@ woodstakes – You’re confusing the threat of a disclaimer of interest to actually decertifying. The threat of the disclaimer is a negotiations strategy to create a panic of a complete league destruction. It’s designed to create leverage to pressure the owners into signing a new CBA. Having said this, if the players continue with the threat, the NHL has already stated they would kill the season. Let’s hope the NHL doesn’t just say, “okay, desolve your union, we’ll see you in court.”

The things you talked about are if the union does walk away from the players and desolves. Then what you say maybe be correct but not the way you put it. There are no more negotiations because there is no PA. Class action lawsuits would be filed. The players livelihood in North America would be gone. Of course they could earn a living in other leagues in Europe but those earning would be less, 35% less in the KHL then in the NHL. As for you comment that “the fans, the sponsors, the TV money will all follow the stars,” keep in mind that the real money is in North America and in the NHL. It would be very difficult for NHL fans to follow the European teams. The player will be European stars with European TV rights There will be no professional hockey in North America. Should the NHL decide to form new league using replacement players, then the 75% of AHL players you spoke of that have NHL contracts would all be available to renegotiate the existing contracts with their previous NHL team or even a new team. The same goes for 100% of the NHL players that currently have NHL contracts. The biggest threat to the owners is the antitrust lawsuits. The player would have to show the courts that they do not have a way to make a living because of the NHL’s actions. The players have already exhausted that logic by playing in other leagues in Europe.

Finally, I see no beautiful thing about decertification as you stated. In my opinion there is no beautiful thing about losing a sport that I love to watch in person and on TV. There is no beautiful thing about damaging the livelihood of thousands of support people for at least a year, if not longer, Maybe the owners books have already been open, neither you or I can know that for a fact. In my opinion the players are and will be the biggest losers. The owners will write off their hockey losses on another part of their business and the players will lose the salary and benefits of being hockey stars in North America and playing in the NHL. Years and years of litigation will make Don Fehr a richer lawyer all because he told the player, as reported in the media, “hold out for a better deal.”

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Sat, 15 Dec 2012 17:40:31 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=884154#comment-118729Yeah you’re right, if the league filed in the U.S. district court in New York it’s much more sympathetic to management. Is that where they filed? The NHLPA could potentially file for a change of venue but they have to have a good reason, which they probably don’t. These legal maneuvers got the NBA to settle but the two parties here seem more likely to let the courts make their decisions before either one gives in.
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Sat, 15 Dec 2012 14:36:39 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=884154#comment-118665I think their initial proposal was an uber-ridiculous suggestion floated just to make their current non negotiable proposal seem “reasonable”.
]]>By: woodstakeshttp://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/14/nhl-files-class-action-complaint-unfair-labor-charge-against-nhlpa/comment-page-1/#comment-118643
Sat, 15 Dec 2012 06:23:49 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=884154#comment-118643Taft–Hartley Act:
“The amendments enacted in Taft-Hartley added a list of prohibited actions, or unfair labor practices, on the part of unions to the NLRA, which had previously only prohibited unfair labor practices committed by employers. The Taft–Hartley Act prohibited jurisdictional STRIKES, wildcat STRIKES, solidarity or political STRIKES, secondary boycotts, secondary and mass picketing, closed shops, and monetary donations by unions to federal political campaigns. It also required union officers to sign non-communist affidavits with the government. Union shops were heavily restricted, and states were allowed to pass right-to-work laws that outlawed closed union shops. Furthermore, the executive branch of the federal government could obtain legal STRIKEbreaking injunctions if an impending or current STRIKE imperiled the national health or safety, a test that has been interpreted broadly by the courts. Though smaller unions were negatively affected as a result of the act, the labor movement as a whole was not greatly impeded by Taft-Hartley. Arguably, the controversial act also helped President Harry Truman get reelected, given that the act galvanized labor unions into opposing Republicans.”

There I even CAPITALIZED all of the uses of the word STRIKE for you.. you’ll notice there is NOTHING about Lockouts in the Taft–Hartley Act!

]]>By: woodstakeshttp://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/14/nhl-files-class-action-complaint-unfair-labor-charge-against-nhlpa/comment-page-1/#comment-118642
Sat, 15 Dec 2012 06:18:27 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=884154#comment-118642WOULD you PLEASE go look up what he “Taft Hartley Law” is and entails. IT covers STRIKES!! S-T-R-I-K-E-S! Not LOCKOUTS… THIS is a lockout man!

As for Hamrlik and Hainsey NEITHER of them said we wanted to have a FULL vote on this or anything else. They were saying as being apart of the Executive Board they decided not to vote. Two completely different things. The executives vote than the rest of the union votes.

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Sat, 15 Dec 2012 06:13:35 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=884154#comment-118641badintent LAST I checked the PLAYERS had NOTHING to do with the fact that all those people you listed for losing their jobs! The OWNERS LOCKED THEM OUT TOO! So start throwing your hate at the people who’s actions have forced the issue.
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Sat, 15 Dec 2012 06:09:21 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=884154#comment-118640Could also be Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld ?
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Sat, 15 Dec 2012 06:06:03 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=884154#comment-118636Terrific post friend ! I know Kelowna only too well, with it being in my backyard here and having an old friend who built houses there for the likes of these hockey players and such. With all kidding aside, I personally have “zero” empathy for these bourgeois parasites … the same goes for Bettman and his horde. I love NHL hockey and hope that there’s an agreement. Yet I have to admit that a part of me hopes that they truly destroy each other.
]]>By: gp424http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/14/nhl-files-class-action-complaint-unfair-labor-charge-against-nhlpa/comment-page-1/#comment-118635
Sat, 15 Dec 2012 06:03:53 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=884154#comment-118635Not true
]]>By: gp424http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/14/nhl-files-class-action-complaint-unfair-labor-charge-against-nhlpa/comment-page-1/#comment-118634
Sat, 15 Dec 2012 06:02:58 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=884154#comment-118634Actually your entire documentary is wrong. Roman Hamrlik and other players have asked for a vote, and were denied. One of the players I believe it was Hainsey stated that we thought about voting on it, but “we, the 11 of us” decided against it. There is nothing to decide, under the law and under Taft Hartley, there is no choice when one side makes an offer that is complete on all issues the union has to allow it’s members to vote on it period. The Executive board is for negotiating not for determining members are allowed to vote. Same with Reps, the represent there teams and can MAKE recommendations, but they cannot say vote or no vote.
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Sat, 15 Dec 2012 05:56:37 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=884154#comment-118632@woodstakes,,
Let me guess. your father, grandfather and all your uncles are union members,, You are a life long NDP party member and think that the NHL comrades making an average of $2.5 million a year is peanuts. How about my friend that works for $20/hour at MSG doing security and his union? Think the players are gonna make up his lost $$ from no hockey games this year or next ? N-O-T G-O-N-N-A H-A-P-P-E-N .
“Socialism is great……. until the $$ runs out ” Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher
]]>By: acieuhttp://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/14/nhl-files-class-action-complaint-unfair-labor-charge-against-nhlpa/comment-page-1/#comment-118627
Sat, 15 Dec 2012 05:48:14 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=884154#comment-118627Break away Canada and pay the players CFL wages in the National Canadian Hockey League. On a serious note How do the courts handle the international aspects of a dispute? How do they apply a US ruling no matter what it is to Canadian based teams?
]]>By: woodstakeshttp://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/14/nhl-files-class-action-complaint-unfair-labor-charge-against-nhlpa/comment-page-1/#comment-118626
Sat, 15 Dec 2012 05:47:02 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=884154#comment-118626Yup and the owners live in hovels I would suppose… oh thats right its ok for owners to be rich but not the people who help them stay rich.
]]>By: woodstakeshttp://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/14/nhl-files-class-action-complaint-unfair-labor-charge-against-nhlpa/comment-page-1/#comment-118625
Sat, 15 Dec 2012 05:43:06 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=884154#comment-118625Furthermore if all of these 3rd and 4th liners believe what you say they believe than why didn’t any of them just stand up and ask for a vote?!?!? They have absolute EQUAL say in this as they are part of the union. So, what.. they were either to stupid or to scared to say something???
]]>By: woodstakeshttp://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/14/nhl-files-class-action-complaint-unfair-labor-charge-against-nhlpa/comment-page-1/#comment-118623
Sat, 15 Dec 2012 05:40:15 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=884154#comment-118623Thats NOT the point!! The point is the UNION has broken NO LAWS by not asking for a vote! IF a player apart of the union REQUESTED a vote and was then TURNED DOWN by the Union leaders THEN they would be in violation. SINCE no such formal request has been made (as far as I know) then EVERYTHING they have done thus far is legal. My response was to the fact that the poster made an assertion that Fehr/Leadership had somehow broken the law.
]]>By: woodstakeshttp://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/14/nhl-files-class-action-complaint-unfair-labor-charge-against-nhlpa/comment-page-1/#comment-118620
Sat, 15 Dec 2012 05:34:21 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=884154#comment-118620somekat your missing the point.. the courts don’t CARE about where you can make more money or less money.. all they care about is whether its a monopoly and whether fair business practices are/were followed. Under a CBA all those business practices are protected by the CBA so the league & union can do just about what ever they want AS LONG as it is being governed by the CBA that both parties agreed to. Without a CBA the NHL now has to operate completely differently. It would have to follow the same laws that everyone else does.
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Sat, 15 Dec 2012 05:30:20 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=884154#comment-118619shotzongoal: “As for making less money, so what? The courts or the National Labor Relations Board are not going to care if the players are making less money or more money but is there a restriction of trade.” You just made my POINT there bud… he compared the 2 leagues.. BOTH leagues have competition in other areas of the country and world. NBA had no more of monopoly than the NHL.

The WHOLE reason to decertify is to make the League(s) decide whether or not they want to go through probably 2 yrs minimum of court proceedings in order to get their teams back to playing. They essentially are calling their bluff.. saying “… fine you won’t meet us halfway on some of these issues we’ll do it in court…” meanwhile we will go play AND get paid while we are doing it. The fans, the sponsors, the TV money will all follow the stars. Always has always will. In the NHL’s case, all the league can do is put replacements in the there and sorry can’t use 3/4 of the players in the AHL since they almost all have NHL contracts already. Its the players basically saying that the issues they have not folded on are so important to them they are willing to lose all of this season and probably all of next in order to get them. Whether you agree or disagree with them, apparently they are serious enough about it to put it to a vote for all members to decide.

About the only beautiful thing about decertification is the fact the owners will have to open ALL the books up for the courts. HRR means nothing to them, they’ll want to see where every penny the NHL took in and where it went and why.

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Sat, 15 Dec 2012 05:04:43 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=884154#comment-118615Not true, because the leauge is going by the old CBA. They had an out, and they took it. The government can’t force them to employ people. Contracts would instantly be invalid, as they were done using terms that required the PA, and were based on certain agreements with the PA. Once that is done, the players have no legal standing to demand anything.

The whole “the courts only care about what is happening in the U.S. may be true if the NHL was a U.S. company, but since it’s an international company, with multiple agreements with international companies (both in terms of broadcasting and hockey related), other options WOULD come in to play. You can’t have a workforce that is a majority foriegners, and not consider foreign companies. The NBA has maybe 15% foreign born. The NHL is like 75%

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Sat, 15 Dec 2012 05:01:02 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=884154#comment-118614Me and the boys took a road trip out to Lake Okanagan in Kewlona , British Colmbia to see the wine country. We saw many huge homes on or overlooking the lake. I asked a real estate agent who owned most of the homes. He said,”They are owned by members of the Calgary Flames and go for $5 million a piece.”
Our hearts go to these long suffering players surviving in these mansions. Hope the property tax man will cut them some slack…………… NOT !
]]>By: somekathttp://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/14/nhl-files-class-action-complaint-unfair-labor-charge-against-nhlpa/comment-page-1/#comment-118612
Sat, 15 Dec 2012 04:58:15 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=884154#comment-118612But none of those other basketball leagues can give them a comparable salary. There are other football and baseball leagues too, but none that can give you a comparable salary to the NFL and NBA.

Without even going in to the multiple Euro leagues that players can get a nice check from, there is the KHL, which has paid guys enough to lure them from the NHL pre-lockout. Who is the last NBA player, who was a shoe in for a roster spot, and playing time, decide he’d rather play in another country? NFL? MLB? Guys go there when they have no other options. I can think of at least a half dozen Euros taht decided to go to the KHL over the NHL. The lowest paid KHL players may get paid much less than the lowest paid NHL players, but they can get a comparable salary there. Comparable and equal are not the same thing