Just watched the new episode yesterday. And sorry that I am bitterly disappointed.

I would say the pacing leaves much to be desired. Even having watched the old version AND the original manga, I find it difficult to understand the story well in the new anime. This is because, well, if you would excuse me, everything is proceeding so damn quickly. It felt as if everyone can predict exactly what another is saying, and need no time to think about a proper response. And the problem became especially obvious when Pakunoda was thinking about the meaning in Kurapika's message. The extreme ambivalence which Pakunoda should be feeling in the circumstances is nowhere to be found in the new version. It was as if she found the correct answer instantly.

The same applied to the Kurapika/Kuroro scene. Kurapika needed no time to become provoked to the point of wanting to kill Kuroro and understood INSTANTLY why Kuroro was so calm in the situation. Such hysterical behavior was completely beyond my imagination.

Why would the director / script writer / people working on this anime do such a thing? This anime is scheduled in the morning in Japan. It is supposed to target the younger audience and be easily understood by them. Displaying the names of attacks is one move in this direction. But the pacing is (in my view, of course) so unreasonably quick that even old fans of the series finds it difficult to follow, let alone children.

To me, this anime is becoming (maybe not all along, but becoming) just a marketing tool for the character figures and, perhaps, the new movie to be shown in 2013. Maybe the director(s) thought that children cannot possibly understand this part of the story in Hunter × Hunter, and (mistakenly believed) that all fans could just breeze through the story without much thought. They therefore wanted to hastily finish this arc (by the way, there is no such thing as a "Ryodan Arc" as alleged by the official website).

December 03, 2012, 02:39 AM

futurefrog

Re: HxH MadHouse Anime Discussion! Part 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by jam1

Just watched the new episode yesterday. And sorry that I am bitterly disappointed.

I would say the pacing leaves much to be desired. Even having watched the old version AND the original manga, I find it difficult to understand the story well in the new anime. This is because, well, if you would excuse me, everything is proceeding so damn quickly. It felt as if everyone can predict exactly what another is saying, and need no time to think about a proper response. And the problem became especially obvious when Pakunoda was thinking about the meaning in Kurapika's message. The extreme ambivalence which Pakunoda should be feeling in the circumstances is nowhere to be found in the new version. It was as if she found the correct answer instantly.

The same applied to the Kurapika/Kuroro scene. Kurapika needed no time to become provoked to the point of wanting to kill Kuroro and understood INSTANTLY why Kuroro was so calm in the situation. Such hysterical behavior was completely beyond my imagination.

Why would the director / script writer / people working on this anime do such a thing? This anime is scheduled in the morning in Japan. It is supposed to target the younger audience and be easily understood by them. Displaying the names of attacks is one move in this direction. But the pacing is (in my view, of course) so unreasonably quick that even old fans of the series finds it difficult to follow, let alone children.

To me, this anime is becoming (maybe not all along, but becoming) just a marketing tool for the character figures and, perhaps, the new movie to be shown in 2013. Maybe the director(s) thought that children cannot possibly understand this part of the story in Hunter × Hunter, and (mistakenly believed) that all fans could just breeze through the story without much thought. They therefore wanted to hastily finish this arc (by the way, there is no such thing as a "Ryodan Arc" as alleged by the official website).

Did we watch the same episode? I know anime only viewers that completely understood. I don't understand how you couldn't to be quite honest.

December 03, 2012, 04:23 AM

jam1

Re: HxH MadHouse Anime Discussion! Part 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by futurefrog

Did we watch the same episode? I know anime only viewers that completely understood. I don't understand how you couldn't to be quite honest.

I was talking about the episode aired on 2 Dec 2012 in Japan. It should be episode 57. It covers the part where Gon and Killua were kidnapped and taken to the hotel, where they attempted to escape but failed. We are talking about the same episode, correct?

I fully acknowledge the fact that some people will find the episode easy to understand. My point is that this episode (and possibly the last one as well) gives the impression that the director(s) wanted to end this arc as soon as possible (and with as little attention to details as possible). It does not care for a first-time viewer - someone who does not have any background knowledge of the series. To me it felt like watching a TV recording in fast-forward mode. There were no pauses, no thinking time, no depth. Every character seems to know everything in advance (how did Pakunoda process all those thoughts in a minute or two!?) and just wants to proceed.

December 03, 2012, 05:12 AM

FaustXIII

Re: HxH MadHouse Anime Discussion! Part 2

Kite didn't appear early in the latest anime!
He did in the manga and in the 1999 Anime.

Kite's next appearance will be in the end of Greed Island

What if they intentionally did that because they don't care about the Chimera Ant?

I now have a doubt that they will not be making an anime for the Chimera Ant but I hope I'm wrong and they will be making an anime for the Chimera Ant Arc (crossed fingers)

December 03, 2012, 06:37 AM

futurefrog

Re: HxH MadHouse Anime Discussion! Part 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by jam1

I was talking about the episode aired on 2 Dec 2012 in Japan. It should be episode 57. It covers the part where Gon and Killua were kidnapped and taken to the hotel, where they attempted to escape but failed. We are talking about the same episode, correct?

I fully acknowledge the fact that some people will find the episode easy to understand. My point is that this episode (and possibly the last one as well) gives the impression that the director(s) wanted to end this arc as soon as possible (and with as little attention to details as possible). It does not care for a first-time viewer - someone who does not have any background knowledge of the series. To me it felt like watching a TV recording in fast-forward mode. There were no pauses, no thinking time, no depth. Every character seems to know everything in advance (how did Pakunoda process all those thoughts in a minute or two!?) and just wants to proceed.

I didn't see this issue personally, the characters are very intelligent and assess the situation the same as in the manga. I prefer this pacing, it's quick fast and honestly these kind of psychological battles are better when they are moving fast paced like action. If you slow it down then its just people talking with progression being far too slow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by X3D2YFaust

Kite didn't appear early in the latest anime!
He did in the manga and in the 1999 Anime.

Kite's next appearance will be in the end of Greed Island

What if they intentionally did that because they don't care about the Chimera Ant?

I now have a doubt that they will not be making an anime for the Chimera Ant but I hope I'm wrong and they will be making an anime for the Chimera Ant Arc (crossed fingers)

Kite will appear, they have already announced before this anime even began that it will go past Chimera Ant arc. Kite backstory was announced to have simply been moved to a different location. Many speculated that it is because its easier to schedule a voice actor of Kite if his appearances are closer together than far apart. Others speculate that Madhouse is trying to highlight thematically the importance of Kite's message to Gon in the flashback because that heavily relates to why Gon becomes so enrage about Kite in Chimera Ant arc. Don't worry it will go beyond Chimera Ant they have already announced this long ago.

December 03, 2012, 07:26 AM

Uriel

Re: HxH MadHouse Anime Discussion! Part 2

I find interesting that you think that it should be easy to understand for kids. This show is not for kids, as far as I know. It may seems like it, but it is not. Pakunoda did the right choice because She had no time to doubt, and that much was even clear when Machi interrupts her thoughts.

In Madhouse's adaptation, Gon's thoughts came out a bit different from the manga. In Nippon’s adaptation I’m not sure if it’s a translation error, but he waits help from Bashou?!Panel 1:-"I already told Kurapika the plan" - "It's possible to pull it off in a hotel lobby, and I know he can do it but..."

Panel 2:-"We didn't decide on when!!"

Panel 3:-"And he doesn't know where we're going." - "I have to let him know, or they can't even get ready."

The episode was good. Some shortenings, but wasn’t that crucial. Although I find myself liking the emphasis of Pakunoda’s scenes in the ova.

8/10

December 03, 2012, 07:48 AM

mousiehamster

Re: HxH MadHouse Anime Discussion! Part 2

Can't say that this part of the story made too much sense for me. For one thing, save for Paku nobody even knows Melody's abilities so why are GR so scared? There's no possible way Kurapica could have convinced them that Melody was damn near omniscient and definitely no proof that she was even within hearing distance, however far that is. Secondly, it makes very little sense for GR to budge. The fact is GR should be aware that Kurapica cares about Gon & Killua. In which case why is Kurapica the one making demands? Thirdly why the hell didn't they chase after Kurapica after the blackout? It would've been over then and there. Machi and Paku were slightly injured but that shouldn't have been enough to deter a chase. The kids could've been KO'd, bound with wire, and brought along. Then there would have been a proper hostage exchange - or just a melee right then and there. Truth is the Ryodan should know that there's no way Kurapica could have taken all of them. Could he have killed Kuroro in the time it takes for the rest of the GR to get to him/kill him? Couldn't they have used Gon and Killua as bargaining chips?

*shrug*

On the issue of pace:

personally i thought i understood well enough what they were talking about. I thought the 99 edition of this episode might have drawn things out a little too much. I understand that the approach is to get the readers immersed in Paku's perspective but it wasn't really done that effectively. I suppose you'd have to chalk it up to the source material.

December 03, 2012, 08:39 AM

jam1

Re: HxH MadHouse Anime Discussion! Part 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by mousiehamster

Can't say that this part of the story made too much sense for me. For one thing, save for Paku nobody even knows Melody's abilities so why are GR so scared? There's no possible way Kurapica could have convinced them that Melody was damn near omniscient and definitely no proof that she was even within hearing distance, however far that is. Secondly, it makes very little sense for GR to budge. The fact is GR should be aware that Kurapica cares about Gon & Killua. In which case why is Kurapica the one making demands? Thirdly why the hell didn't they chase after Kurapica after the blackout? It would've been over then and there. Machi and Paku were slightly injured but that shouldn't have been enough to deter a chase. The kids could've been KO'd, bound with wire, and brought along. Then there would have been a proper hostage exchange - or just a melee right then and there. Truth is the Ryodan should know that there's no way Kurapica could have taken all of them. Could he have killed Kuroro in the time it takes for the rest of the GR to get to him/kill him? Couldn't they have used Gon and Killua as bargaining chips?

*shrug*

On the issue of pace:

personally i thought i understood well enough what they were talking about. I thought the 99 edition of this episode might have drawn things out a little too much. I understand that the approach is to get the readers immersed in Paku's perspective but it wasn't really done that effectively. I suppose you'd have to chalk it up to the source material.

Your post just proved my point.

See? Because the director(s) cut out the details where Kurapika captured Kuroro in a split second just as the blackout began, now you don't understand why the Ryodan did not chase after Kurapika at once. This part was well illustrated and explained both in the old version and the manga (Ryodan surprised/could not see well in dark), but not in the new version.

December 03, 2012, 08:51 AM

ZonikStrike

Re: HxH MadHouse Anime Discussion! Part 2

[OFF]^Lol same join date and country[/OFF]
^I think MH did rush things a bit, but it was still understandable. It was obvious the Spiders were caught off guard by surprise attack.
And regarding why didn't they themselves make demands... Well, Phinks actually tried! =D The point of their situation is that they value Chrollo themselves and even though Phinks was right, they still couldn't bring themselves to risk Danchou's life. That was pretty obvious in MH adaptation as well, imho.

December 03, 2012, 08:53 AM

jam1

Re: HxH MadHouse Anime Discussion! Part 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uriel

I find interesting that you think that it should be easy to understand for kids. This show is not for kids, as far as I know. It may seems like it, but it is not. Pakunoda did the right choice because She had no time to doubt, and that much was even clear when Machi interrupts her thoughts.

And ironically, Nippon TV thought that it was a good idea to make this a show for kids to be shown on SUNDAY MORNINGS. Such intentions were confirmed by an interview with the anime's director Hiroshi Kōjina.

So it is now a kid's show, and a kid's show should be simple and easily understood by kids. Apparently this proved impossible to achieve for a story as deep as in HxH, so the director had no choice but to neglect on developing the story.

December 03, 2012, 09:11 AM

kindredxiuxiu

Re: HxH MadHouse Anime Discussion! Part 2

This is just me, but the anime is doing a pretty decent job at emulating the source material. It's not perfect by no means, of course, but look at the source material. Hunter x Hunter is a difficult manga to adapt. It's very heavy on the exposition (even in the Ant Arc, I was sitting there skipping stuff here and there because I wanted to get on with the story), and people who watch the adaptation, especially a show aimed towards kids, aren't going to want to sit there and decipher everything that's being taken in.

Unfortunately, in adapting this, some details do need to be cut out for the sake of progressing the story and thus focus on the big picture. Paku doesn't have time to sit there and deliberate, Kurapika made his demands very clear to them, the GR had disagreements regarding it. Before they could act any further, they received the note, otherwise they could have gone after him right away. Plus, I'm sure they were still in some disarray due to being off guard, the counterattack, and the lights going out. The key here is doing everything in a very timely manner, hence the emphasis on doing things in a split second. What may seem like 10-15 minutes to us, is more like 2 minutes in Hunter x Hunter (throwing arbitrary numbers out there).

December 03, 2012, 09:23 AM

mousiehamster

Re: HxH MadHouse Anime Discussion! Part 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZonikStrike

[OFF]^Lol same join date and country[/OFF]
^I think MH did rush things a bit, but it was still understandable. It was obvious the Spiders were caught off guard by surprise attack.
And regarding why didn't they themselves make demands... Well, Phinks actually tried! =D The point of their situation is that they value Chrollo themselves and even though Phinks was right, they still couldn't bring themselves to risk Danchou's life. That was pretty obvious in MH adaptation as well, imho.

Yes, but Kurapica couldn't bring himself to risk Gon/Killua's life either. And since they already assumed that the two were decent hostage material, it made absolutely no sense NOT to chase after Kurapica or at the very least, giving in to his demands without any protest like he has 100% of the bargaining power just made zero sense to me. Either the kids are useful hostages or not.

December 03, 2012, 09:49 AM

ZonikStrike

Re: HxH MadHouse Anime Discussion! Part 2

^Actually, he successfully carried out his bluff in the phone call to Phinks. He made them think that if it's needed, he could abandon his friends.
Spiders' weren't too sure his friends are precious enough for him. And it turned out that Danchou was.
Your point is the same as Phinks' and his group's. But not everyone was ready to risk Chrollo's life. That caused a dispute, which lead to the decision to leave things to the hostage exchange. Well, not only that, but the first move won Kurapika a couple of minutes as well as the position of stating the rules.
I don't know what's unclear here. Everything is very obvious imo

December 03, 2012, 10:12 AM

Uriel

Re: HxH MadHouse Anime Discussion! Part 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by jam1

And ironically, Nippon TV thought that it was a good idea to make this a show for kids to be shown on SUNDAY MORNINGS. Such intentions were confirmed by an interview with the anime's director Hiroshi Kōjina.
So it is now a kid's show, and a kid's show should be simple and easily understood by kids. Apparently this proved impossible to achieve for a story as deep as in HxH, so the director had no choice but to neglect on developing the story.

Being Sunday Morning doesn't mean it's a kid show :/
Of course, it's a way to capture new fans. And that's your personal opinion about neglecting the develop of the story.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mousiehamster

Can't say that this part of the story made too much sense for me. For one thing, save for Paku nobody even knows Melody's abilities so why are GR so scared?

Killua knows about Senritsu, so Pakunoda knows.
For professionals, they know there is many ways to check things out. We're talking of a guy who just kidnapped their boss.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mousiehamster

The fact is GR should be aware that Kurapica cares about Gon & Killua. In which case why is Kurapica the one making demands?

He killed Uvogin. They concluded before that He was working alone. Pakunoda couldn't speak in time to tell that they're related somehow. The bond is blurry to bet on it. And they're smart.

Quote:

Thirdly why the hell didn't they chase after Kurapica after the blackout? It would've been over then and there. Machi and Paku were slightly injured but that shouldn't have been enough to deter a chase. The kids could've been KO'd, bound with wire, and brought along. Then there would have been a proper hostage exchange - or just a melee right then and there. Truth is the Ryodan should know that there's no way Kurapica could have taken all of them. Could he have killed Kuroro in the time it takes for the rest of the GR to get to him/kill him? Couldn't they have used Gon and Killua as bargaining chips?

Because it's imprudent. You don't know the direction, the way they escaped, their abilities, what could happen to the kidnapped person, if there was more people in the building to take advantage of their split, if there would be something waiting...To many possibilities that are out there for professional assassins and thieves.