Right out of Hitler's little book:
All civilians living in Gaza are collectively guilty for Kassam attacks on Sderot, former Sephardi chief rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu has written in a letter to Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.

The Mark Twain school of severe racism:
"If they don't stop after we kill 100, then we must kill a thousand," said Shmuel Eliyahu. "And if they do not stop after 1,000 then we must kill 10,000. If they still don't stop we must kill 100,000, even a million. Whatever it takes to make them stop."

(If they don't leave we'll kill six million of them.)

Ye oldt good book:

In the letter, Eliyahu quoted from Psalms. "I will pursue my enemies and apprehend them and I will not desist until I have eradicated them."

An Israeli doctor who underwent tight security checks at San Francisco International claims that she was humiliated only because of her nationality.

Dr Dorit Zilberman, a senior urologist at the Chaim Sheba Medical Center at Tel Hashomer who was visiting the United States for the first time for a professional conference, claimed that airport security officials led her to what she called a sort of "gas chamber", where she was sprayed with a strong current of air for two minutes, which caused her great pain.

if you actually could read, you would have realized that i support criticizing the rabbi. what i do not support is the overgeneralization that lunocrat engages in when he discusses anything to do with Israel, or as he puts it Jews.

"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."

Sephardi Jews are a subgroup of Jews originating in the Iberian Peninsula, usually defined in contrast to Ashkenazi Jews; frequently used ambiguously with respect to whether the term includes Mizrahi Jews.

So, one former chief rabbi of a subgroup of the Jewish religion now speaks for all Jews??

Way to generalize there!

I do agree the rabbi is an idiot.

You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James LovelockThe Story of Stuff

if you actually could read, you would have realized that i support criticizing the rabbi. what i do not support is the overgeneralization that lunocrat engages in when he discusses anything to do with Israel, or as he puts it Jews.

Sorry - knee jerk response.

I am an idiot though - I find it helps get throgh these times.....

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad

Bush certainly is guided by the Israeli model democracy for the middle east. Olmert and his fritz pals make Saddam look like Winnie the Pooh. Nice going, schmuck!

Israel's oven death ride:

Quote:

According to Tawhid Shaaban, a prominent lawyer from East Jerusalem, some detainees have spent nine years in Israeli captivity without charge or trial. "Yes, this happens in a state that claims to be the only democracy in the Middle East."

The so-called "death ride" is one of the most agonising and nightmarish experiences a detainee undergoes. It starts with a sudden raid of a given ward by the notorious Nahshon squad, which is specialised in repressing Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails. Then a prisoner or several prisoners are ordered to board an extremely filthy, hot and nearly hermetically sealed white vehicle, allegedly in order to appear before a judge several hundred kilometres away. The hateful vehicle would move very slowly from one prison to the other to carry additional prisoners, including dangerous Jewish criminals. The car would stop every hour for refreshment, while the inmates are sweating in the back chamber.

The nightmarish journey, which could last for 24 hours, is first and foremost meant to make the prisoners suffer as much as possible in the oven-like metal chamber where there is very little oxygen. The prisoners are barred from using toilets for close to 16 hours, and some are forced to urinate and defecate inside the lock-up car.

Saed Yassin, a human rights activist describes the "death ride" as "an intolerable and unbearable form of torture. They don't treat you as a human being but as cattle or a piece of luggage. People are left to rot and suffer in these oven- like chambers for up to 24 hours without food, without water, and with very little oxygen. And if they want to torment a given person, he is forced to undergo this nightmare every few days."

Former Chief Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu is not alone. As published in the relatively liberal Israeli Haaretz article in March 2008: (extract)

Quote:

"All of the Palestinians must be killed; men, women, infants, and even their beasts." This was the religious opinion issued one week ago by Rabbi Yisrael Rosen, director of the Tsomet Institute, a long-established religious institute attended by students and soldiers in the Israeli settlements of the West Bank. In an article published by numerous religious Israeli newspapers two weeks ago and run by the liberal Haaretz on 26 March, Rosen asserted that there is evidence in the Torah to justify this stand. Rosen, an authority able to issue religious opinions for Jews, wrote that Palestinians are like the nation of Amalekites that attacked the Israelite tribes on their way to Jerusalem after they had fled from Egypt under the leadership of Moses. He wrote that the Lord sent down in the Torah a ruling that allowed the Jews to kill the Amalekites, and that this ruling is known in Jewish jurisprudence.

Rosen's article, which created a lot of noise in Israel, included the text of the ruling in the Torah: "Annihilate the Amalekites from the beginning to the end. Kill them and wrest them from their possessions. Show them no mercy. Kill continuously, one after the other. Leave no child, plant, or tree. Kill their beasts, from camels to donkeys." Rosen adds that the Amalekites are not a particular race or religion, but rather all those who hate the Jews for religious or national motives. Rosen goes as far as saying that the "Amalekites will remain as long as there are Jews. In every age Amalekites will surface from other races to attack the Jews, and thus the war against them must be global." He urges application of the "Amalekites ruling" and says that the Jews must undertake to implement it in all eras because it is a "divine commandment" .

Rosen is another who didn't just fall off the proverbial turnip truck. If the Israeli military got such orders, then they would be carried out relatively gradually and quietly, as opposed to "let's go kick some Palestinian ass" style. Even though there's been a corporate media blackout on what's going down in the occupied territories for years, such overt tactics would be hard to keep under wraps, what with the communications capabilities of today.., say, compared with what happened in Germany 60 years ago. The US of course would never publicly sanction (extermination); however, amongst the US neoconservative hawks, the current administration and their extraordinarily intimate ties to the Israeli lunatic fringe/extreme rightwing, you can bet that the elimination of those pesky Palestinians would be something much approved of in their private circles. If some are prepared to go public with such schemes, you can bet theres 100 times as many who privately concur, but prefer to remain mute.

Maybe those D9 Caterpillar bulldozers that the IDF uses to raze Palestinian farms, orchards and villages could have another use? Its more likely that the Palestinian people, rather than the Jews (in that out of context remark by Ahmadinejad) will end up pushed into the sea, quite literally?

We the public deserve an honest complete review of the facts with scientific interpretation and implications as to what really happened on 9/11. Bill Binney, Former senior technical director, NSA.

Why is that when one Rabbi makes an insane comment, he no only is taken very seriously, but he represents a nation and entire religion. But when the actual President of another nation says a certain little democracy must be "wiped from the pages of time" and will "soon disappear" and what not...well he didn't really mean it?

hmmm.

I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either.

You get your guard down for a second and it's like.... BAM! Shot to the kidneys!

JEWS!

No it's not.

Its amazing! As soon as anyone criticizes the actions of a very small but powerful group on the Israeli right, someone always invokes that old sarcastic chestnut.. "blame (ALL) the Jews". Where does that crap come from.. the 4th grade? It's as predictable as the rising sun. Since when did a few crazy Israeli hardliners represent "the Jewish people"? These extremists are a tiny minority, hiding behind the shield of the Holocaust, knowing that people are extremely reluctant to voice any criticism of Israeli expansionism/foreign policy/military action etc. They use that immunity to do what the hell they want... call it international blackmail.. its no better.

The Israelis (hardliners) have been allowed to get away with literally anything and everything over the decades: numerous acts of terrorism (domestic and international), massacres in neighboring territories (such as Lebanon), even acts of war, such as attacking a US Navy ship in international waters or an Iraqi nuclear power research facility, both without provocation. Israeli agents caught spying on the US are let go. Israel has flouted dozens of UN Resolutions, the kind of action which has resulted in war for other nations. Israel has never had to account for its nuclear weapons/power program; all other nations in the region have to comply, or else. Even on the morning of 9/11, the duplicity held sway: the Urban Moving Systems guys who admitted being "sent by their bosses to film the event" were let go and quietly sent back to Israel, under a "national security" blackout. (Imagine if those guys had been Palestinian, Syrian, Iraqi, Iranian etc etc... it would have been Gitmo for ever).

The double standard is breathtaking. Its like being in public gallery in court, hearing two consecutive cases: The first guy, in the dock for murder, gets a slap on the wrist because he's wellconnected.. .. the following case is a homeless man charged with littering, and he gets the death sentence.

We the public deserve an honest complete review of the facts with scientific interpretation and implications as to what really happened on 9/11. Bill Binney, Former senior technical director, NSA.

Its amazing! As soon as anyone criticizes the actions of a very small but powerful group on the Israeli right, someone always invokes that old sarcastic chestnut.. "blame (ALL) the Jews". Where does that crap come from.. .

I don't know...hmmm..where would one have gotten that impression....I don't know...where indeed...oh yes, I remember now...it is the thread title....

Nope nothing in the title about Israel, Israeli right, small but powerful anyone...just jews....

Samantha Joe Ollendale....setting up her own arguments to rail against since 1999.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro.

Perhaps the thread title should be more reflective of reality. Substitute "Jews" for "extremist Zionists"... who represent a miniscule proportion of the Jewish people.

However, would that have made any difference? No.

Perhaps it should have. But you are right, it would have made no difference. As you have proven, it doesn't matter whether the OP had isolated a sub-group or made a blanket statement against Jews in general, as he obviously did and meant to, you would leap to defend his statements and intentions...including reinterpreting what he actually posted to make it a little more acceptable to those that feel the same but don't want to be as overt in their leanings.

go ahead, keep claiming he meant just the zionists, or american jews, or whatever other group of jews is preferable to you...as he obviously did not intend this same qualification.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro.

If I had said Israelis it would include the Arab Israelis. Not so good. Anyway, please remember that on November 4 the Israelis rolled into Gaza and murdered six Palestinians. Hamas held off until December 19 to respond to Israel's breaking the truce. It makes no difference to Americans because they are ruled by the Israelis but the rest of planet knows what's going on. Thanks to George and his bootlicking pal Pelosi we'll have the equivalent of genocide without ovens this week in Gaza. Oh, here's a little clip of clever work by the Israelis: A suicide bomb in a Gaza market without the suicide bomber! Even A H at least tried to conceal his final solution. Of course, the U S looked the other way on that one too.
I am surprised that this topic of Gaza isn't in the top ten here but I guess you guys read the New York Times or listen to Rusty Limbaugh.

white phosphorus. Yes, the same American made white phosphorous we used in Iraq.

It is a weapon of terror. That is its intended purpose on the battlefield. It burns everything it touches. Who again are the terrorists? Gaza is not a battlefield. It is a densely populated open-air prison.

But let's balance this with another story that broke over the weekend...there was a video spread over the Internet that supposedly showed the carnage in a Gaza marketplace after an Israeli bombing mission. It was a hoax. What it was was from 2005...

Quote:

This video is from September 23rd 2005, and was taken in the Jabalya refugee camp in the northern Gaza Strip. A Hamas pick-up truck carrying Qassam rockets detonated by mistake during a Hamas rally, leaving at least 15 killed and dozens more injured.

The pick-up truck in question is visible for a split-second at the start of the video. The section of the video showing the pick-up exploding has been edited out. The large number of Hamas personnel present, the number of injured in military uniform, the large number of civilians and Hamas flags all over the place confirm this.

So, disinformation is rampant too. Doesn't mean that what the Israeli government/military is doing make them saints either. I know from thirty years of watching this that all the truth is laced with crap to give points to each of their sides.

I'm sick of this, it's gone on way too long and I wish our government stopped supporting it.

For Americans (US) to think that the Open Air Prison Gaza is a serious threat to Israel after watching the bombing of markets, the bombing of farmers, the bombing of playgrounds, the denial of medical aid to injured civilians, the possible use of cluster bombs on the most dense population on the planet, the use of gas bombs, the bombing of hospitals, the bombing of water supply tanks, and on and on, is to be completely governed by Israeli propaganda. Is that what the people of the United States want? To be governed by Israeli propaganda. Israel is a failed state, depending on perpetual war to support its perpetual neurosis and fear of extinction. It's a sick arrangement, supported by the people of the United States who couldn't bear to look a disemboweled child or a woman who's head was blown to bits; it must happen elsewhere. Fucking cowards!

Looks like someone missed the thread title again or is again being intentionally dishonest. meh.

tonton, what Tulkas said.

lunocrat, your rants have little to do with the facts on the ground -- you are having an emotional response just because one side is Jewish and the other is Palestinian. You leap to some sort of Zionist conspiracy theory as a defense of your position. It's pathetic.

Israel has not done all it could do in non-violently ending this conflict. That is a deep scar that has always prevented me from supporting their actions.

Hamas has no intention of peacefully ending the conflict.

Both sides just want peace though go about it in stupid ways. Both sides have power because of use of force against the other. Both sides use perpetual war to get political ends.

"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."

Hardee, the last truce was broken by Israel November 4th. Israel has a bonafide history of breaking practically every peaceful arrangement it has signed. Go through back issues of Haaretz. Hey, it's Jewish, bro! Gaza is inhabited with people that once lived in now-Israel. They don't want to be ruled by Israel and I don't either. Believe all the propaganda you want to but it takes an idiot to avoid seeing that Israel is bombing a concentration camp, refugee camp, with phosphorus bombs, bombs in markets, the list will undoubtedly increase far past that acceptable by reasonable human beings. When was the last time Israel was threatened with the destruction of downtown Tel Aviv or the mass murder of 500 or 1000 people or overhead phosphorus, nerve gas, F16s, helicopters. It can't happen and you know it. It's a neo-fascist farce. Peres, Livni, the goon Bush, the bootlicker Pelosi. They don't give two shits for peace. They want to control the middle east and I say to Bush, "Go cut your throat, you animal."
Emotional. Yeah, Hardee, but not as emotional as if my daughters were shot while sitting at the dinner table; not as emotional as if my quad grandfather was crushed by a bulldozer. You know the list goes on. This is not a war, it's an extermination. A war needs an opponent. There is no serious opponent in Gaza as there was no serious opponent in Baghdad (Where's the army?). The only difference is that A H would never bomb a concentration in full view of the world. But who the hell cares, eh? All things are equal, right Hardee. Crawl out of your comfortably constructed propaganda cocoon.

No doubt Bush called his Zionist chums and informed them that they should act before he leaves office, as the case for genocide will be harder to run past a Democrat presidency ... And if you could cause a global problem so that me and my Oil chums can make a bit of a profit by having the Oil price to rise again...

The truce was barely in effect far before that. Israel didn't live up to its promise to allow humanitarian aid into Gaza and Hamas didn't live up to its promise to stop dropping missles and rockets into Israeli territory. The fact that you don't know the whole story seems a bit discordant with your claim that everyone else are the ones with their head in the sands.

Quote:

Israel has a bonafide history of breaking practically every peaceful arrangement it has signed. Go through back issues of Haaretz. Hey, it's Jewish, bro!

What does it mean it is Jewish? Would you call the NYTimes Christian? No.

Quote:

Gaza is inhabited with people that once lived in now-Israel.

Hint: Israel was founded in 1948. What percent of the population in Gaza do you think actually lived in the land that now makes up Israel?

Quote:

They don't want to be ruled by Israel and I don't either.

I am not convinced that they wouldn't accept a single state solution whereby they are given all the rights and privaledges afforded Israeli citizens, but this has been off the table since Israel's founding.

Quote:

Believe all the propaganda you want to but it takes an idiot to avoid seeing that Israel is bombing a concentration camp, refugee camp, with phosphorus bombs, bombs in markets, the list will undoubtedly increase far past that acceptable by reasonable human beings.

You seem to think that Hamas doesn't have control over Gaza, that Hamas didn't forcibly exert its rule against Fatah there last summer. It is almost as if you believe that Hamas is therefore not responsible for actions Hamas takes... It's an intriguing proposition, you know, treating the Palestinians as if they were infants unable to even teeth without assistance. I understand this is an attempt to make this a David v Golliath argument, but that is insulting to both Israelis and Palestinians.

Quote:

When was the last time Israel was threatened with the destruction of downtown Tel Aviv or the mass murder of 500 or 1000 people or overhead phosphorus, nerve gas, F16s, helicopters. It can't happen and you know it. It's a neo-fascist farce. Peres, Livni, the goon Bush, the bootlicker Pelosi. They don't give two shits for peace. They want to control the middle east and I say to Bush, "Go cut your throat, you animal."

What? I don't think Hamas fires rockets into Israel except to ellicit a response. I don't think Israel blocks aid from getting into Gaza except to ellicit a response. They are both acting like adolescents and ignoring the costs to the citizens on the ground.

Quote:

Emotional. Yeah, Hardee, but not as emotional as if my daughters were shot while sitting at the dinner table; not as emotional as if my quad grandfather was crushed by a bulldozer. You know the list goes on. This is not a war, it's an extermination.

What the hell is a quad grandfather? Maybe you should try to think rationally about a problem that has been TOO EMOTIONAL.

Quote:

A war needs an opponent. There is no serious opponent in Gaza as there was no serious opponent in Baghdad (Where's the army?).

Huh? A war does not need a singular opponent with an army. Hamas is trying to kill Israeli citizens by lobbing missles (to what end?). Israel is killing Palestinians under Hamas rule by well killing them (to what end?). It seems to me that we have here two opponents. But of course the Zionist conspiracy artists can't possibly believe that Palestinians can organize a force and lob missles, no they are too infantile to do that.

Quote:

The only difference is that A H would never bomb a concentration in full view of the world. But who the hell cares, eh? All things are equal, right Hardee. Crawl out of your comfortably constructed propaganda cocoon.

I don't see what this has to do with Adolf Hitler, unless your sole purpose is to get a rise out of anyone offended by trivializing the attrocities of the mid-twentieth century dictator set.

Israel's actions are beyond reproach. Hamas' actions are beyond reproach. Perhaps maybe if we recognized that there is enough blame to go around we could come to terms with this conflict. If there are idiots out there who like to think the boogyman causes everything wrong, well we should ignore them. They got us into Iraq.

"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."

Hardee, the last truce was broken by Israel November 4th. Israel has a bonafide history of breaking practically every peaceful arrangement it has signed. Go through back issues of Haaretz. Hey, it's Jewish, bro! Gaza is inhabited with people that once lived in now-Israel. They don't want to be ruled by Israel and I don't either. Believe all the propaganda you want to but it takes an idiot to avoid seeing that Israel is bombing a concentration camp, refugee camp, with phosphorus bombs, bombs in markets, the list will undoubtedly increase far past that acceptable by reasonable human beings. When was the last time Israel was threatened with the destruction of downtown Tel Aviv or the mass murder of 500 or 1000 people or overhead phosphorus, nerve gas, F16s, helicopters. It can't happen and you know it. It's a neo-fascist farce. Peres, Livni, the goon Bush, the bootlicker Pelosi. They don't give two shits for peace. They want to control the middle east and I say to Bush, "Go cut your throat, you animal."
Emotional. Yeah, Hardee, but not as emotional as if my daughters were shot while sitting at the dinner table; not as emotional as if my quad grandfather was crushed by a bulldozer. You know the list goes on. This is not a war, it's an extermination. A war needs an opponent. There is no serious opponent in Gaza as there was no serious opponent in Baghdad (Where's the army?). The only difference is that A H would never bomb a concentration in full view of the world. But who the hell cares, eh? All things are equal, right Hardee. Crawl out of your comfortably constructed propaganda cocoon.

You are almost funny. Your writings are incredibly poor. Your facts appear made up on the fly. You really seem to have disconnected from reality though. I think you honestly believe if that if you rant it makes up for your other limitations in your posts.

You seem young. Perhaps that explains your posts. You seem mostly very filled with hate. Not anger toward zionists or Israeli policies or the US government. Just really filled with hate to the point of raving. At least you don't try to hide it. You are pretty open with your message of hate right from the start, right in the thread title (the original, not the recently modified thread title...)BTW, the new thread title makes no sense for this thread-retaliate for what? Who should retaliate? Did I miss you call to arms. Going back to your original title would be more honest, no?

However what is truly pathetic is tonton and others leaping to defend this turd of a thread, ignoring the open, unabashed anti-semitism. Going beyond ignoring, but actually rationalizing and justifying it. Sometimes it takes a thread like this for for their masks to slip off just a little. You could almost hear their communal orgasm when this thread got started way back when.

You have to wonder how much more overtly anti-semitic the thread would have to be for them to acknowledge it. At least usually, they can repeat the mantra "we mean Israel not Jews", "zionist, not jews" etc, but luno didn't even try to hide behind those tired refrains. They still defended him. Not one of his post in this thread would be unexpected, in context, from David Duke or any other of his hate filled kind. Maybe his next thread can be titled something like "kill all jews". tonton etc al might not post in that thread, but at least they might not openly defend the OP in that thread either.

A big part of me thinks luno is a composite poster, created by a right winger to post the most ridiculous, immature, hate mongering, nonsensical crap to see who on the left would leap to defend it. The usual crowd did not disappoint. All aboard.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro.

I may be missing something here as I am not aware of this background info you raise.

Fellows

He was addressing a post written when this thread was started over a year and a half ago. That's right 1.5 years... The post itself was in reference to the fact that until today this thread was called something to the effect of Jews committing Palestinian Genocide.

tonton's response was neither relevant to the post he quoted, nor to anything said in this thread at all...

"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."

Wow, after reading post after post of knee-jerk drivel along comes tonton with the above.

It is nice when level-headed calm shows up at the scene of childlike posts.

Thanks tonton.

Fellows

His post was akin to someone defending a klan rally as simply a gathering of some people concerned with race relations.

The original thread title and the OP's consistent content has been an open, racist smear job. It is hardly level headed to come in and rationalize the content after the fact as being only applicable to some sub set of the larger group.

If I come in here and post that all black people are violent criminal animals because my cousin was gunned down in his front yard in Jamaica by a black guy, that would be overtly racist. If a single person posted to rationalize my comments, after the fact, as only applying to those that actually are criminals, that would be obscene. For someone else to later come in, and applaud the apologists is just sad.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro.