Wednesday, October 11, 2017

This result was baked in the cake ever since the Boy Scouts started allowing gays. This is what social justice convergence looks like; once social justice enters, it replaces the core purpose of the organization:

The Boy Scouts of America's board of directors has unanimously agreed to welcome girls into the Cub Scout program and to forge a path for older girls to pursue and earn the highest rank of Eagle Scout, the organization said Wednesday.

"The historic decision comes after years of receiving requests from families and girls," Boy Scouts of America said in a statement. "[T]he organization evaluated the results of numerous research efforts, gaining input from current members and leaders, as well as parents and girls who've never been involved in Scouting -- to understand how to offer families an important additional choice in meeting the character development needs of all their children."

BSA said the move is also aimed at helping busy families consolidate programs for their children. "Families today are busier and more diverse than ever. Most are dual-earners and there are more single-parent households than ever before, making convenient programs that serve the whole family more appealing," the BSA statement said.

Boy Scouts of America has about 2.3 million youth members between the ages of 7 and 21 and about 960,000 volunteers in the United States and its territories.

What a pity I didn't write SJWs Always Lie and SJWs Always Double Down back when I was a Boy Scout in the Order of the Arrow. Of course, it's only a matter of time before they ban the latter in order to avoid offending American Indians.

You can be absolutely certain that after the initial rush of girls to join the Boy Scouts, the number of youth members and volunteers will begin to drop even more precipitously than it has already; membership is down 63 percent since it peaked in 1972. And in case you're wondering, the time to start an alternative organization on the guidelines of the original Boy Scouts is about five years ago. You want to have the infrastructure in place and get it up and running before the mass outflow starts.

From SJWs Always Double Down: As Martin van Creveld, the Israeli military historian has noted, the more women enter any professional field, the more men leave it. And as the men depart, so to do the prestige and the economic rewards provided by the field. This creates a vicious cycle that both expels existing men from the field while repelling new men from entering it.

This is also true of academic institutions, social organizations and entertainment as well. It won't be too terribly long before, the Boy Scouts of America will be shocked and dismayed to discover that they can't get boys to join it anymore.

The decision to allow girls to achieve the rank of Eagle Scout is significant for several reasons.

The rank of Eagle Scout is a prestigious and widely recognized achievement, one that can have long-term benefits in academic, professional and even military spheres. Attorney General Jeff Sessions, Neil Armstrong and Former US Secretary of Defense Robert Gates are just a few notable men who have attained the rank of Eagle Scout.

While there is a rough equivalent in the Girl Scouts -- the Gold Award -- the honor is not nearly as well-known as the Eagle Scout distinction.

And we can now anticipate that the prestige and the long-term benefits of achieving the rank of Eagle Scout will rapidly disappear along with the boys. This is what ALWAYS happens when you fail to police your organization in order to keep the SJWs out.

159 Comments:

The convergence is uniquely infuriating today, as an eagle scout I thought I had fully written this organization off when they broke for the gays. I was wrong. The image of a woman in the future claiming to be an eagle scout matches the fury at meeting a woman who talks about how kind her 'husband' is when she does the for her.

At a gathering this weekend, we met a couple and the wife kept stating her daughter was involved in scouting. She mentioned it several times in relation to activities that sounded like Boy Scouts, but I assumed she meant Girl Scouts. Reading this makes me wonder if she meant Boy Scouts and was trying to provoke a reaction.

Makes sense if they were concerned with making it easier to have sons and daughters both in the scouts, not having to drop one kid here and one kid there, but of course, that isn't why they've done this. Sad!

I loved the scouts... only left when I discovered girls. I wish Trail Life was an option, but the scouts in E Wisconsin where I live are to the BSA Board what American Roman Catholics are to the Vatican. Either way, in my area the people's love for what the scouts WERE over-rides their red flags about what the scouts ARE. I expect the situation is pretty much the same throughout the US. Maybe it's not too late to stage a coup? Is this an opportunity for an Avignon Papacy of sorts? The NRA was able to do it...

I was a Girl Scout, up to Cadet level. The organization became less about self-reliance and more about showing off yo bad sef. So I quit.

I know a woman who is the leader for her son’s troop (bio Dad is gone, alky, lives in a hotel in AR somewhere). Yes, you can imagine. Today she was talking about camping with the boys and doing their Dutch oven cooking badges. She can’t get them interested in trying anything other than pizza and hot dogs. I only imagine that a man, a father, a DAD would say “look, this is what we’re cooking and eating!”

I am a camper, backpacker, climber, sometimes hunter, backcountry traveler in all seasons. I know camp cooking, spare and luxurious. But I wouldn’t take over a scout troop because of that. If asked I’d provide advice, workshops. Boys need men to lead the. The Boy Scouts hasn’t been for decades. It’s been about gays having access to boys, and moms (usually single moms) power-tripping on their son’s and his friends.

My family parted ways with the BSA over the gays. Converged. Give them five years and they will come out for abortion. What’s to stop them? They have surrendered every means to fight the SJW narratives. They are slaves to the whims of the left.

Can you imagine the pregnancies, STDs, and sexual harassment complaints that will occur now? Or the accusations of pedophilia or molestation? Now you would be required to take women on every camping trip, which effectively means no hard hikes or long trips.

Well, why bother renaming the award when you can just gut the organization and wear its skin as a suit?

Most people are cognizant that girls need time, space, organizations, away from boys sometimes.

But suggest the reverse may also be true and you're a monster, despite the evidence that too much time dealing with female social aggression is far worse for male mental health - men literally don't have the neural wiring to deal with it. It's like having women compete with men in arm wrestling, only, every minute of every day, forever, and it's illegal to leave.

The problem really is the result of corporate America. After Obama kicked the national jamboree out of Fort A. P. Hill, the BSA decided to build its own national jamboree site, now called Summit Betchel.

Orginally planned to cost in the range of $50 million, corporate board members convinced the BSA to expand the cost to $439 million.

As such, the BSA became beholden to corporate donors and turned its back on its long standing religious partners.

Churches have been leaving steadily as unit sponsors and this will kill scouting for many tradition churches. Expect to see the Mormons, who already were planning to reduce their involvement, to leave entirely, and maybe the Catholics.

I am an Eagle Scout. I have two Life Scouts (the rank just below Eagle), as well as 2 younger scouts. We are likely done.

Scouting had been penetrated by corporate interests long ago, as local counsels, staffed with local businessmen, had, in many places, sold off scout assets for a steal in cronyistic deals.

They already have a reasonable alternative, that has been growing precipitously, TRAIL LIFE for boys and AMERICAN HERITAGE GIRLS, which are both explicitly right-leaning and in fact, the by laws of Trail Life require that you be a "boy, born a boy", etc.

Keeping these two groups from being converged will be the real challenge.

"Now you would be required to take women on every camping trip, which effectively means no hard hikes or long trips."

Or to put it another way, no fun. The seed for the demise of the Boy Scouts of America was planted when they started allowing women to have roles in troop leadership. There are a large number of women who seemingly cannot tolerate the idea that somewhere there might be males who are having a good time without them.

I would pull my sons out now except that (a) they are almost done anyway and (b) the troop leaders are good old-fashioned rednecks who don't cotton to this stuff.

Point taken, VD. I guess I already knew that... my boys have been told they will not join, and to the extent a 10yr old and a 5yr old can understand, they know why. And I know what needs to be done - I need to tell right-minded men they should pull their boys out in order to save them in light of the events of the last several years. Probably should've seen this coming when the merit badges started getting gay'd up.

Give it five years from the change and 90% of troop leaders will be women. Men have things to teach. Women just love to organize.

Give it five more years and the skills and training will have nothing to do with knives and axes and tents and honor and duty. It'll be diversity and helping others less fortunate and self-expression through flower arranging.

…the prestige and the long-term benefits of achieving the rank of Eagle Scout will rapidly disappear….

Eagle Scout – whatever is left of it – will now go the way of Ph.D. and other academic degrees. Notice in recent years how everybody now has to have a bunch of initials after their name?

@3: And apparently it was too much effort to publicise this award, so that people knew it was the Girl Scout equivalent of Eagle Scout.

No, the point is the "Gold Award" is not the equivalent of Eagle Scout, and since girls must be "equal", they weren't satisfied with it.

@5: Watch the eagle scout award get watered down to nothing. Badges will include disposing of feminine hygiene products in an eco friendly fashion and scrapbooking the Cosmo sex articles for the week.

Precisely. The bar must be lowered so the girls can feel "equal".

@15: Will the Girl Scouts admit boys next??

Don't hold your breath. In my town there was once a Boys' Club – part of the national organization. Some time ago (maybe 20 years?) it was changed to the Boys & Girls Club. It appears to serve mainly working class kids. There's also an organization called Girls Inc. ("Inspiring all girls to be strong, smart, and bold"), which looks to be lavishly funded (nice building in a posh part of town). This is called "equality". I doubt any boy has ever tried to join, but can imagine what would happen….

Feminists have two primal desires which work cross purpose. They want to:1. Be (like) one of the guys (experience manly pride)2. Mark all spaces as feminine (extinguish manly pride)

The problem for feminists is they still deeply crave to experience what only men can truly experience: manly pride. This is why feminists have so little interest in building up their own organizations. Being top woman doesn’t cut it. They want to break into an all male field; this is the only way for women to experience that feeling of manly pride. But the reward is fleeting. No matter what they do, they aren’t men. So they set about tearing it all down, stamping out any symbol of manly pride.

Actually, being top woman does "cut it" – in a culture where women have a recognized and honored role. Check out any "primitive", indigenous culture: grandmothers have tremendous prestige. But if women don't believe mothering is worth doing well – or worth doing at all – they can only be envious of men.

Required reading for Army guys. What's happened at West Point is going on all through the Army. I just retired last year as a field grade and have witnessed a distinct difference in the culture and policies of the Army from the 90s to today.

It seems the Baby Boomers (the senior leadership at West Point) have a shocking inability or unwillingness to deal with Convergence, even in traditionally conservative institutions.

It is difficult to express how entirely pissed off I am over this. It serves me right, I suppose. I was appalled by the tranny thing last year but I stuck with it because in the end the girl in question would wash out once the novelty wore off, and because I liked scouting so much as a kid and I wanted my boys to have that same experience.

Should have left then.

Soon as I saw this article, I texted my cub master that we're done. I'm helping to run the Bear den, and I'm the advancement chair for the pack. I'm tempted to feel bad about leaving them in the lurch.

But I can no longer fund or associate with this organization as it slits its own throat.

I really, REALLY can relate to that H L Mencken quote right about now...

Hell, you won't even be able to mock them by calling them the Boyish Scouts anymore. Perhaps the LGTBQPGCGFTREQWERTY Scouts? But that's cumbersome. Perhaps just the Bitch Scouts. That way they can still us "BSA".

So I'll take a stab at this. When you introduce women into a male organization, you wind up with the women in-fighting constantly instead of being productive. Secondly, male dynamics are sabotaged because norms that worked with just men now have to be constantly adjusted or removed to suit the one woman on the team. Thus productivity falls because men are the driving builders of civilization. This doesn't even include the dead weight diversity hires that can't actually do the job.

I wonder what a non-pozzed, 21st century scout movement would look like?

Queen Victoria was barely off to her eternal reward when SCOUTING FOR BOYS got published. The sort of woodcraft and knotwork the Scouts used to be about might've been useful in the days of the Empire, but were of dubious benefit even in the analog lo-fi days of my boyhood and are probably irrelevant now. I don't think I've ever needed to do a sheepshank.

The Second Boer War had a yuge influence on Baden-Powell and Scouting, because he fought in it.

If we're looking for martial inspiration for boys in the modern era, where would that come from?

SAK - thanks for the link. Explains why I haven't seen a Scout troop around these parts in years.

And recall, the BSA didn't have to be converged. They actually won in court over the deviants, but decided to roll over anyway. I think they wanted to lose the case as cover for switching to the deviant leftist model, but were shocked that they won. Plan B had to be put into action instead.

Only slightly OT it appear in this case because it appears to show what will happen to the scouts now that they have admitted girls. I couldn't help but notice that the "cadets" brought up in his examples later were referred to as "she". That pretty much tells you all you need to know. The white knights couldn't possible impose the proper discipline upon the poor women folk for lying, cheating or just plain failing to perform.

I know that Scouts Canada and Scouts Australia are multi-gendered organizations (I know a woman who is a scout leader down under). I'd be curious to hear from readers in those areas how Scouting has changed after becoming Boy and Girl scouts.In the case of the BSA... I suspect that cash flow problems are the source, and they have now doubled down. I know the Mormons (a major source of membership and funding) were gradually moving away from the BSA after recent events, and I'm curious to see what will happen now.

My sister tried the Girl Scouts for a while, but she found it boring. She could see the things the Boy Scouts did (watching her brothers) and it looked a lot more exciting to her.The obvious fix to the (wholly converged) GSA was to make it equally challenging and interesting, but SJWism has to pull down, rather than up. (then, of course, the organization gets gutted and worn like a skin suit.)Goodbye, BSA. We had many years of outdoor activities together, but this Eagle Scout is not going to donate time, support, or money to an organization that does not match his values.

Boys like socialising and being part of a team with other boys. A space where you can fart and tell rude jokes and overcome challenges while finding your place among the lads. It's part of normal masculine development.

As soon as you add girls, the esprit de corps is lost forever and it rapidly becomes an exclusively girl thing.

They have also been reducing the requirements to become an eagle scout.

the benefits WILL in fact, disappear... The goal of egalitarians has ALWAYS been to tear down everyone to the same level, the lowest common denominator, because it's impossible to raise everyone to the same level.

As an Eagle scout myself, I won't give an employee the extra consideration being an eagle scout deserves unless they are Mormons.Not because I care for or trust Mormons more than anyone else, but because I know that the Mormon Boy scout program is still relatively valuable.

Further testimony: We got multiple roosters from the local 4H program in North Florida. Not because I was involved in the program, but because I knew someone who knew someone who was. The children were raising chickens for shows, then they didn't want to keep the roosters. Instead of butchering and eating them, there was a guy who was responsible for killing the cocks and throwing them in a dumpster.

It bugged him, so he gave them away when he could. I was happy for the free meat.

The crazy thing is that today is the International Day of the Girl. Yes, on this day the BSA chose to really stick it to the Girl Scouts, who are hopping mad about this. They just got their space invaded, and they are diminished by this. I was listening to Girl Scouts and their leaders calling in on a local radio show. They are not amused to say the least. They were also announcing no intention to admit boys and declaring that boys and girls are different and require different spaces. If they can keep that up remains to be seen. But I wish them well in that. They are 100% correct on this issue.

Point taken, VD. I guess I already knew that... my boys have been told they will not join, and to the extent a 10yr old and a 5yr old can understand, they know why. And I know what needs to be done - I need to tell right-minded men they should pull their boys out in order to save them in light of the events of the last several years. Probably should've seen this coming when the merit badges started getting gay'd up.

Yes. Go on the attack. Mock them publicly. Do everything you can to help the local troops self-destruct. They are vectors of evil now.

a deplorable rubberducky wrote: I was listening to Girl Scouts and their leaders calling in on a local radio show. They are not amused to say the least. They were also announcing no intention to admit boys and declaring that boys and girls are different and require different spaces. If they can keep that up remains to be seen. But I wish them well in that. They are 100% correct on this issue.Interesting! i hadn't heard about this... and I wonder when (or if) the press, triumphant in this "victory" over patriarchy and traditional culture will decide these women's side of the story to be newsworthy. But yes -- as another poster mentions, they require different spaces, in spite of what intersectionalists feel. It's not sexist to realize this. My Boy Scout experience would have been very different, and probably not really in a good way, if girls had been part of the dynamic.

Back in the 80's, which was a time of heroes and legends, being an altar boy was a pretty sweet gig if you were a Catholic laddie.

You'd make friends, get paid (funerals were best for this, weddings carried a 50/50 chance because everyone was so eager to get drunk and dance), and learn how to swing a thurible like a boss.

We took pride in our work. Everything was drilled with almost military precision, nobody slouched or wore white trainers or yawned in the sanctuary.

Some of the other kids at school might want to tease you for wearing a cassock, but it was the 80's, so we beat the fear of Our Lord into them. We saw ourselves as following in the noble footsteps of St Stephen. Apart from the playground fights part, although I'm sure the nuns in The Bells of St Mary's said punching cheeky buggers was ok.

Nowadays your bog standard Catholic church will see the priest assisted by a couple of chavvy, bored-looking girls sauntering around with all the grace and purpose of bewildered cows. Sad.

I was a Boy Scout half a decade ago, made it to Life Scout and then quit. Just about every person I knew, from the scout leaders, to my friends, my parents, my teachers, etc... All told me what a horrible mistake I was making for not just going that final mile and getting my Eagle Scout rank (for the express purpose of putting it on my resume mind you, nobody actually cared if I managed to learn or experience anything from it).

But not a one of them saw what I saw - I saw the writing on the wall. And I couldn't be happier that I hadn't wasted my time on it, it's going to be meaningless soon enough. Everything that I always despised in the public school system I also saw in the BSA and I look forward to seeing the day they truly crash and burn.

And to any of you other former scouts lamenting the BSA's fall from grace, all I have to say is: don't. They're the enemy now and have been for longer than you would probably like to believe, don't allow your nostalgia to blind you of this fact.

@64 deplorable rubberduckyI was listening to Girl Scouts and their leaders calling in on a local radio show. They are not amused to say the least. They were also announcing no intention to admit boys and declaring that boys and girls are different and require different spaces. I

That's just the lesbians who infiltrated Girl Scouts in the 90's at work. They don't want competition in their clubhouse.

At the risk of upsetting everyone I agree that young ladies should be admitted to the "BOY" Scouts.What are girls but boys without penis's right?Rather than protecting our young men from the inevitable radical gender hatreds, they should start to encounter them now so they will deal with them better as adults and not be victims in the workplace, family court, etc... Perhaps a merit badge on gender distress.Once was the time a resourceful scout could treat a snakebite, find food, read a compass.Now a scout must navigate family court, treat gender bias wounds in the workplace, and circumnavigate the peaks and valleys of precious, fragile feelings.

I only made it to Tenderfoot rank with a few skill awards and merit badges to my name, but I had loads of fun while I was in the Scouts.

It would not have worked with girls in the troop because a lot of us were just turning 13 years old, and noticing girls much more than before. We would have been far too distracted to focus on Scouting activities. There would be fights, too. That always happens in those situations.

Nothing, because there won't be any more camping trips. Not for too much longer, anyway. Once the girls are there the activities they don't like will slowly be stripped out, starting with camping, until it's just the girls and a few gay boys baking cookies.

Why do you need a national organization? Get together with a few like minded men and take your boys camping, fishing, etc. You don't have to let anyone into your group you don't like. If you mistakenly bring along a reject, don't invite them to the next event.

Milkshakesuds wrote:At the risk of upsetting everyone I agree that young ladies should be admitted to the "BOY" Scouts.... Rather than protecting our young men from the inevitable radical gender hatreds, they should start to encounter them now so they will deal with them better as adults and not be victims in the workplace, family court, etc... Perhaps a merit badge on gender distress.

Once was the time a resourceful scout could treat a snakebite, find food, read a compass.

Now a scout must navigate family court, treat gender bias wounds in the workplace, and circumnavigate the peaks and valleys of precious, fragile feelings.

Nicely done, Jonathan Swift!But hey, those merit badges sound useful in the modern post-racial global community. I'll bet they will be required for the new Eagle rank--Oh, wait... The Eagle is too nationalistic. We need to be GLOBAL citizens, not war-mongering quasi-military kids. So that'll have to be the Dove award instead. yeah, those merit badges would definitely be required for the Dove award.

@61 What's the method for making a capon? I found one for sale once (frozen); it was considerably bigger than the usual chicken and tasted just fine. It seems like that would be a good use for unwanted roosters.

@72 TWO merit badges for abortion, the more valuable for performing one (speculum and curette) rather than receiving one (coathanger).

Not that there's anything intrinsicly wrong with abortion (it can be bad or good), just observing.

@82 Heaven forbid the girls start liking boys (think the lesbians).

@83 Funny you should mention that... I recall an NPR piece some time ago about an "outsider artist" who painted an entire story about little girls whose genital anatomy was completely male, like he'd never seen a female naked. I can't find anything conclusive about him now (the name Henry Darger pops up but no conclusive examples of the artwork).

Even into adulthood, I've still kept the habit of mentioning on resumes that I was an Eagle Scout. That's now officially done, goddammit. Vox is right, taking a step like this will only cheapen what used to be a sizable accomplishment that earned great respect. But I think we're in for yet another "surprise" in just how low the SJWs will end up sinking any value that the brand name even has left. My prediction: Since they can technically no longer even call it the "Boy" Scouts, we're going to see the management come out some time within the next five years and announce that after much deliberation over an appropriate name that reflects their new inclusive values they will now be changing the organization's official name to . . . "The Eagle Scouts." Now all you have to do to be one is join! And oh yes, buy one of their shirts.

No f#%*ing way.

At this point I'm so used to seeing SJWs subvert and colonize once-great institutions that when another one falls it doesn't get much more out of me than a snort of disgust. This is the first one that makes me want to adopt the Iron Bank principle of destruction; Not only will I now do all I can to smash them myself, I will also seek out the worst rivals they have and gladly help finance as many of them as I can until our common enemy breathes no more. I suppose that in the meantime I can slake my thirst for blood by making a donation to Alt Hero, but Vox . . . If you're still bringing Reconquista to converged grounds, I think there's now a new target that's positively begging for it. Just saying.

Order of the Arrow sounds like some special group inside the Spanish Falange. Check their emblem.https://infogalactic.com/info/Falange_Espa%C3%B1ola_Tradicionalista_y_de_las_Juntas_de_Ofensiva_Nacional_Sindicalista

having girls who are used to age/rank/cohort-based troops try to integrate into a multi-generational immortal troop structure.

They won't. The structure will change to make them comfortable. Within a couple of generations, scouts will be 70-80% girls. The focus on objective achievements for patches and ranks will have been toned down or removed, replaced with personally-set goals and social group goals.

And the people involved will say it's a good thing girls want to be Scouts, because those lazy boys aren't interested these days.

Mr. Rational wrote:@61 What's the method for making a capon? I found one for sale once (frozen); it was considerably bigger than the usual chicken and tasted just fine. It seems like that would be a good use for unwanted roosters.

It's rather nasty and not worth the bother. A rooster is tough, but if he's been eating well and wandering about, still has much better flavor than store-bought birds. Slow cooked, they are excellent. And the stock from the bones and neck is superb.

I don't know what they're like today; or in other areas, but about 15 years ago I was asked to put on one of my timbering tool demonstrations at a Royal Rangers gathering. The little kids seemed like any other kids, but between demonstrations I had a chance to learn more about the group. I was told that the training is equal to or more difficult than US Marine Corps training. Sounded hard to believe until I started seeing the older guys, like 17 or 18. They -really- looked the part, and went around everywhere saying "Ooh-rah!" I always try to get peoples' senses involved in my demos; sight, sound, smell, and touch. So at the end, I ask if anybody wants to come up and try a few tools. Some tools I have to put away, foot adze for example, but crosscut saw and cedar rail splitting are safe enough. One of their older (scouts?) comes up, built like a tank. He takes the hickory maul (looks like caveman club) strikes the dogwood glut (wooden wedge) and the cedar log literally flies apart. The crowd was all oohs and ahs, while this guy hardly put any effort into it, grinning all the while. This is no exaggeration. Might be worth looking into.

They were also announcing no intention to admit boys and declaring that boys and girls are different and require different spaces.

So the boy-spaces get girls but the girl-spaces stay all-girls? Sounds about right.

Which is the way it is in Canada, which has coed Scouts Canada, and all girls Girl Scouts AND all girls Girl Guides. No all boy groups. I attend a camporee in Canada yearly, which is how I'm aware of this.

Hey Vox you know in 1988 they change to allow female Scoutmaster after she sue them in the 1980s. According to the Boy Scouts, nearly a third of the group’s volunteers are women.

Come 2010 now a 2 year review on gay and trans scoutmasters and in January they have allow girls who identify as boys

The organization will rename it from the boys scouts of america to the scouts of america. I bet later if they don't just skip the name will become just the scouts (Due to kids of foreign backgrounds such as from Mexico) and then something else (since the name scout might trigger someone).

@96 Nasty or not, I'd hoped for specifics (people sometimes WANT to know about the nastiness, in case they might sometime have to engage in it) but thanks for the feedback.

Yes, also using this to plot out a story line I've been working on for a year-plus. Selected sperm for swine, sheep, goats, and further. Growth rates for populations of everything from brine shrimp to dairy cattle. It matters, at least if you insist on science in your science fiction.

This really sucks.. Women just can't abide men having and wanting a male only space. Boys need this too. Boys need to be away from their mothers and WOMEN. Boys are surrounded by women. This is just vindictive feminist b@itches yet again attacking a male institution... Pure spite.

My family and I support Trail Life USA for a variety of reasons. Trail Life: is masculine, allows centerfire rifles for teens, has Christian men sign a statement of faith, has local voting for policy change, and more.

In three years, Trail Life has hundreds of troops and more than 25,000 members. It's Alt-Scouting, and I'd encourage the Ilk to check it out.

@83 "On my honor, I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country, to obey the Scout Law, to help other people at all times, to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight."

They need three new badges that involving reading and then practicing what they've learned:

@90 "yeah, those merit badges would definitely be required for the Dove award."

Oh see? And here you come full circle! "Dove" (the skin lotion folks) have a whole campaign these past few years "celebrating" women of all sizes... So, another badge would have to be how to find a blue-haired pierced cow sexually attractive... (buh buh but: she has SOFT skin!)(It's tattooed and ugly, but it's soft!)

@95: "The focus on objective achievements for patches and ranks will have been toned down or removed, replaced with personally-set goals and social group goals."

This has already occurred in Scouts Canada. They now say "Badges are not Personal Progression". My son's Troop actively discourages earning badges and is instead focused on "having fun". Additionally the uniform is generally ignored/de-emphasized.

The previous Challenge Badges with objective requirements have been replaced with Personal Achievement Badges where each Scout develops their own requirements. While requirements have to be approved by adult leaders the focus is "Personal Progression" and not "Meeting a Standard".

Outdoor skills badges (9 of them) remain objective and are broken into 9 stages each. Stages 1-2 are meant for Beavers (age 5-7) and so forth.

The Chief Scout Award (rough equivalent to Eagle) has been absolutely gutted. The Citizenship and Personal Fitness sections have been removed. There is no minimum requirement for outdoor skills, only an accumulation of stages. For the Chief Scout a total of 18 stages is required. So Stage 2 (Beaver level skills) in all 9 areas is perfectly acceptable.

You can accumulate 18 stages without spending a single night camping or a single mile on the trail.

The top award has gone from something difficult and rare to achieve, to what is essentially a participation award for sticking with Scouts for the full 4 years.

Naturally, my son said nuts to that and is now in Army Cadets. He was the 4th generation in my family to be a Scout. If Scouts Canada continues on the path they're on, I doubt there will be a 5th.

Settle down and listen up. This is great news if you're willing to seize the opportunity.

You don't have to start another organization. You can do everything you want with a genuine Boy Scout Troop without any of the SJW convergence nonsense.

Boy Scouts are just about the most de-centralized organization you can find today and one of the easiest to avoid nonsense with. The converged idiots down in Irving, TX run just about bupkiss. Every "unit" (pack, troop, crew) is "owned", staffed, and run (including setting membership criteria for both youth and adults) by a local organization called the "Charter Org."

The charter org selects every single adult leader that participates in the program. Also has complete control over what youth are admitted or allowed to stay.

What is this charter org? Most often it's a local church, but it can be literally anything. A VFW post, a Fire Fighters guild, a for-profit company, or a non-profit org. You can form one yourself - file the paperwork to get your IRS designation, then to sign up as a Charter Org, you need four adults and five kids. That's it. You're running your own troop or pack or crew, and you're deciding who your adults are and who your youth are. But BSA is insuring you against any lawsuits. You also have access to a lot of BSA owned camps and what not. Your choice if you want to use them - you can get cheap campsites off-season if you don't want to take a chance of running into a diversity troop in summer.

You can teach the old-school Baden-Powell style scouting, and nobody from Irving is going to say boo as long as you're sending in those $15 yearly dues for each youth and adult. You pick your leaders, you pick your youth, you pick your program.

That's what we did. And when a scout transferred from another troop and on his second campout told the other scouts about his gay escapades, we kicked him out (and that was a really difficult conversation I had with his dad who didn't know).

Bottom line: you can run your own non-converged troop.

And, the really great thing about this new girls-okay policy? You can use the same setup to run your own non-converged girls program too! Girl Scouts is a feminist mess. Set up a separate Girl's Troop and run it like you want.

If anybody want's tips on how to do this, let me know. It's really, really easy (well, except of course for the time you put in working with the kids, but then, you want to do that or else you leave some other weirdo in charge).

Curious question. I am not a Protestant, but a Roman catholic. I have an 8 year old grandson whom attends a Baptist Church with a trail life troop. What sort of article of faith do they require me to Sign?

I would suspect that they might discriminate against me because I don't see religon their way or be nice and try to convert me. But I would be interested in a program that my grandson and I could do together.

Eagle rank was debased long, long ago, mostly by parents who do the work for the kid so little Johnny can have his special award. You can earn it with 21 night's camping total. Most years, our troop has several scouts who double that in a single year.

I suspect, Vox, that the problem is that they are already losing boys.

After they voted to let in gay boys, I spoke to one of the higher ups. He told me that they expected to loose about 6 to 10% of the boys.

I have heard that, in many areas, the numbers are more like 40 to 60% losses. People dropping out due to that decision.

The Catholics started their own group. Some other churches have their own group, too.

The Heritage Girls, who had been paired with the Boy Scouts--after the Boy Scouts broke with the Girl Scouts some years back--broke with the Boy Scouts over the gay issue.

The main backbone of the Boy Scouts is the LDS Troops...because the Mormon church puts all their boys in Boy Scouts, basically.

But I have heard that even they are trying to organize their own organization. (Difficult, if you think of the tremendous amount of wealth in land that the BSA has, but not impossible.)

So...everyone who has backbone is bailing, leaving less and less people of integrity inside the Boy Scouts.

Further, they are facing some MASSIVE bills due to lawsuits...they were fined 120 million in a case of a Scoutmaster who abused a boy just recently, and I hear there were other such cases.

They already have girls in Venturing...ages 14 to 21. And many other countries have girls in Scouting, so they probably think it won't matter. Also, at least at the younger levels, they say that the individual dens will be single sex, even if the Packs are mixed.

But... I suspect, as you do, that this is the beginning of the end.

As an admirer of Lord Baden-Powell and all that he stood for, I find this heartbreaking.

The Baden Powell Scouts are based on the traditional scouting principles elucidated by Lord Baden Powell, who is the father and founder of the Scouting movement:

https://www.bpsa-us.org

While they may not go full Baden-Powell (he envisioned Scouts being used as paramilitary auxiliaries to the main force, for example) and the shooting badge with a Lee Enfield rifle probably isn't part of the package, it is probably as close as you can get to the real thing.

And recall, the BSA didn't have to be converged. They actually won in court over the deviants, but decided to roll over anyway. I think they wanted to lose the case as cover for switching to the deviant leftist model, but were shocked that they won. Plan B had to be put into action instead.

As I recall the problem was escalated into a financial crisis. This started when Obama kicked the BSA out of Ft. A. P. Hill where they used to have the Jamboree. The BSA was going to set up a private site for $50 million or so, but somehow they got talked into a real fiasco. Like a $400 million commitment.

Now they had made themselves extremely vulnerable, and that's when the SJWs pounced. They pressured all the big corporate sponsors of the BSA. The BSA buckled.

Guess who but Rex Tillertson had a big hand in all this chicanery. These were dirty deeds.

Jack Amok wrote:Eagle rank was debased long, long ago, mostly by parents who do the work for the kid so little Johnny can have his special award. You can earn it with 21 night's camping total. Most years, our troop has several scouts who double that in a single year.

That's pretty sorry. While I don't doubt your word, Jack. Can I see where you get your info from?

You can Google St. Mary's Catholic Church thru Google Earth. In Jackson, MS.

Notice that huge chain-link fence line between the church and the border of the property and St. Charles Ave.

One of my tasks to become an Eagle Scout, was to clean all the vines off that fence. I chose that "task" myself. Took me damn near 3 months. The EPA would NOT have been happy with my usage of used motor oil to keep those vines from growing again.

I also helped the nuns at the local Carmelite Nunnery, to upkeep their "bird garden" in their backyard.

Clay, you can check the requirements on any website. Boy Scout Trail is a good one.

But what it boils down to - and what I really want people to get from my other post about starting your own unit and your own charter org - is that the requirements are what the leaders of your unit make of them.

The Eagle Project is a huge variable. Totally depends on what the Scoutmaster is willing to approve. We've seen kids in other troops do a canned food drive or a blood drive as their Eagle project, and in reality Mom did all the actual work for her little 13 year old Eagle.

But we set the bar higher. More than just pure work, we want the kid to organize and lead a project too. Funny, at a recent Eagle Court of Honor for one of our guys, a visitor snarkily remarked that he saw a lot of adults doing the work (he project was replacing all the pews at an very old local church with new ones, all the woodworking done by our volunteers). I pointed out the new Eagle Scout working as the foreman for the crew, organizing and leading a half dozen adults in the project.

The thing we tell all our guys is that every award the get has exactly the amount of value they put give it. Each of them, whether they just earned Eagle or Tenderfoot or just a measly old merit badge, they know what went into the award, so they know how much it's worth.

You know how much work it was to clear those vines. That's how much your Eagle means to you. Some kid whose mom collected some cans for the homeless shelter and handed in his application? He knows what his Eagle is worth to him too. Not the same thing, is it?

And it'll be the same variable with girls earning it too. Credentialism is nonsense anyway - the value of an Eagle Rank is whatever you learned, whatever part of you you developed, in the process.

"The first thing I thought of when I saw the "she" in the letter was the picture of the black female cadets all raising the Black Power fists.

The Lieutenant Colonel was teaching there at the time of this incident.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/08/us/west-point-cadets-photo/index.html"

I've always wondered this about the black power salute. Is its origin from hanging on the back of garbage trucks, or hanging from tree limbs. Since black women do it, too, I figure more likely the latter, but I'd like to know for certain.

Thanks, Jack. I was wondering myself if the Scoutmaster had as much control as you seem to implicate.

BTW. I should have indicated. I have all the Palms, too. 63 Merit Badges. At the time, I was the youngest Scout to recieve the Eagle Scout award in the state of Mississippi....signed the award by Gerald R. Ford.

It's framed, and on my wall to this day.

My daughter stole all my other Scout stuff, to keep for her kids. Including my old Boy Sout's hand book, my silk Eagle neckerchief, my sash wit all my merit badged, those goofy medals you used to wear on your belt, the belt itself...she got it all.

Dirk Gently wrote:"Scouting had been penetrated by corporate interests long ago, as local counsels, staffed with local businessmen, had, in many places, sold off scout assets for a steal in cronyistic deals."

However, it is co-ed, not single sex and so isn't a complete replacement of the Boy Scouts. While I'm pretty sure that somebody, somewhere, sometime has used their position to do something inappropriate with children in this organization, it is likely rare given the public and private stance of the sponsoring church on homosexuality and premarital sex.

That's what we did. And when a scout transferred from another troop and on his second campout told the other scouts about his gay escapades, we kicked him out (and that was a really difficult conversation I had with his dad who didn't know).

How many years ago was this? Can't imagine you could get away with it today.

And recall, the BSA didn't have to be converged. They actually won in court over the deviants, but decided to roll over anyway. I think they wanted to lose the case as cover for switching to the deviant leftist model, but were shocked that they won. Plan B had to be put into action instead.

The lever the SJWs used to pry open the BSA was all the schools, community centers, and military bases which hosted scout troops. Threatened with the loss of facilities they decided the easiest thing would be to just give in.

BTW. I should have indicated. I have all the Palms, too. 63 Merit Badges. ,

We have a question we ask guys. Which was your favorite?

Yeah, the Scoutmaster - or at least the community organization that appoints him - has a lot of control. One of the revelations Lord Baden-Powell had was that young men needed the guidance of respectable men from their village. The locals. BSA, back in the depths of time, organized themselves to empower the local volunteers.

Why be associated with the BSA at all? Just to make use of their facilities? Discounts on materials? What about being tainted by association with the national organization, or other troops wearing the same uniforms but living under different ideals?

Years back, I talked with a friend who was a BSA executive...He said they were worried about the 3 Gs--Gays, Girls, and God...There was already a Citizen of the World badge (which we mocked by calling it Citizen of the Galaxy), so the trend was obvious.

@80 Our oldest made Life, then lost interest in the Eagle, along with several friends, when the political and bureaucratic hurdles to doing the project became apparent. He really enjoyed the hard physical challenges, such as the 9 day hike at Philmont,and they were already being watered down in his troop.

I don’t know how the rank of Eagle Scout is achieved, whether it’s a set course or school, but I’ll assume the outcome will be similar to when the first females went to Ranger school-IIRC, on the 3rd attempt(lol) generals were present at the course to ensure everything went well for the candidates, which would make Obama and the SJW chiefs smile, pacified.

Sure, go ahead and find your own insurance and everything else. You can do that.

But whatever you do, make sure there's a program like what Scouting was started as available for the young men in your community. It really is an important thing, and BSA is so federated, YOU control how it runs.

Jack Amok October 11, 2017 11:41 PMSettle down and listen up. This is great news if you're willing to seize the opportunity.

You don't have to start another organization. You can do everything you want with a genuine Boy Scout Troop without any of the SJW convergence nonsense......

And that's completely right. Scouts doesn't run without the volunteers, and the volunteers run the troops.

As far as Eagle projects go, bureaucratic hurdles I've seen are when a Scout tries to do something for government of some sort, rather then for Church or American Legion or VFW, or something of the sort. Yeah,BSA paperwork to document the project and phases, but that's minor. And all can be done online and printed out.

What parent of a girl would enroll their daughter in the BOY scouts? It doesn't make any sense especially when there is an equal organization that exists for girls called the GIRL scouts. Is this an appeasement of the trans crowd where these kids are in transition? Girls becoming boys? I makes no sense.

Trail Life and their partner organization American Heritage Girls are mostly run by Baptist churches, but there's plenty of Catholic churches in there as well. As long as it's a Christian organization, it's welcome to charter a troop. This isn't proof against SJW infiltration, but what is?

I was listening to talk radio, Lars Larsen, about this decision yesterday. It was interesting because the callers defending this decision mainly sited the girl scouts extreme left wing descent for why they wanted to put their girls in boy scouts. One woman had been a girl scout leader and said that the girl scouts discouraged family involvement, that they wanted to get the girls away from parents and then give them heavy indoctrination in sjw topics. The girl girls go so far as to teach 12 year old girls about venereal disease and birth control. Apparently a lot of parents had been asking the boy scouts to allow girls in because it is a more conservative group. So the outflow of normal and conservative leaning people from girl scouts is putting pressure on boy scout to converge. How ironic.

Apparently a lot of parents had been asking the boy scouts to allow girls in because it is a more conservative group. So the outflow of normal and conservative leaning people from girl scouts is putting pressure on boy scout to converge. How ironic.

That sums up a lot of our parents. Girl Scouts is exactly what you say. Add "hostile to fathers" as well. It's also really poorly run, and keeps tighter control over the units than BSA does.

I had a half dozen dads from our troop contact me yesterday, asking when their daughters can join. They don't want them anywhere near Girl Scouts.

Anyway, I'm not convinced this is as "converged" as people think. BSA has allowed girls 14 to 21 to be members of a Venturing Crew or Sea Scout Ship for decades. The charter org has the option to run venturing programs as all male, all female, or co-ed, as the org wishes. You can run two crews if you want, one for the girls and one for the boys. They can share equipment, facilities, etc. I expect this new program will be the same - and we'll probably choose to run two, one for boys and one for girls.

I predict, whatever the impact on Boy Scouts from this decision, that it will hasten the demise of the Girl Scout program, and that by itself will be a good thing.

Eagle Scout and Scoutmaster here. There is a lot of good vs evil thinking here, and I have to say an emotional reaction is tempting. Looking at this more clearly, they talk is that there will be separate boy and girl units to preserve the single-gender association concept. I've been a strong and vocal proponent in my troop that boys need to get away from women and girls and just be with other males. But our society sure is pushing grrrrl-power. (dammit!) A potential positive is that we can make some tough, traditional women. My daughter is not yet old enough for Scouts, but I would not trust her in the harridan's SJW den of Girl Scouts! Bringing her into Boy Scouts---separated and no camping!---could be good for my family and help us live more virtuous lives. The commenter upthread who mentioned that we already have a conservative beachhead in a converged organization has a great point. How else are we going to win if we do not fight somewhere? Scouts is as good a place as any!!! And yes, I do blame the corporacracy for this substantial tilt leftward.

Peter Jackson October 12, 2017 12:46 PM[T]he organization evaluated the results of numerous research efforts, gaining input from current members and leaders, as well as parents and girls who've never been involved in Scouting...

They got lots of input from current volunteer leaders. And ignored it. But reading through the comments, Jack Amok pretty much sums everything up correctly. Several of our volunteer leaders with girls wouldn't let them anywhere near GSA. But none of the female parents were motivated enough to start a Frontier Girls unit. And a man would have to be insane to start a girls youth group.

@155 But none of the female parents were motivated enough to start a Frontier Girls unit. And a man would have to be insane to start a girls youth group.

It would have to be a husband and wife job. He starts both, and she leads the girls under his direction. I know it must seem rare as hen's teeth now, but wives make fine XOs under a capable husband's leadership.

For those planning a Jack Amock style troop, is there any merit to adding a Reconquista-style pledge to the troop's oath, to take back the BSA for God and country?