RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:2. I never got the idea that all Autobts are nameless until named in Autobot Boot Camp in TF:A. I doubt every single Autobot went through it.

Eh, I just went with what the show and Almanacs gave us, with them saying that those who attended Autobot Boot Camp got their names there and acted like they hadn't been called much of anything else before. Both the sergeants and the cadets reacted like the cadets were nobodies until they got their names there.

Now it is entirely possible that the cadets went by some previous identifier prior to entering boot camp, but that notion wasn't really explored so I just took what we were given and had to work with it.

Of course they're nobodies when first arriving. That's what a boot camp does to the cadets-break them down and rebuild them into soldiers. I don't think Rosanna attended boot camp, and she's got a name.

She took on a different career path. She could have started down the path she took earlier in life and got her name that way. The cadets entering Boot Camp seemed to be somewhat like youngsters.

Or, since we really don't know much of Rosanna's past, she could have had a different name before becoming a singer. How a non-boot camp Autobot got his or her name is a bit hazy, since it wasn't touched upon.

Like I said, I just had to go with what we were given. If you can find solid confirmed word that the cadets entering boot camp (other than Shockwave or any other special case) had real names before being given names by their drill sergeants, I'll gladly go back and rephrase my list to the correct wording.

Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'

Fires_Of_Inferno wrote:Just finished reading it all, very well done, I hope you sent it to Hasbro as well! If not then you should and see if you get a reply. If you do get a reply then you HAVE to share it with us! XD

Very nice work.

I have not, but that is an interesting idea. Though, I wouldn't know where to start in sending it to Hasbro (or even if this format of coloring would still apply with whatever Hasbro uses).

If anyone here would know how to get this seen by either Hasbro or the higher-ranked people of the Transformers Fandom, please let me know. If word can be passed on, that'd be great (so long as I am given the proper credit to avoid plagiarism and whatnot by anyone passing on the word).

Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'

I think I closed my mind off when I read it. I only noticed a handful of descrepancies when I read it, but they would only be descrepancies based on what source the reader chooses to christen the truth.

I think Hasbro, when they commisioned this book, acknowledged that their cash cow had reached so many people through different incarnations that it would be IMPOSSIBLE to establish a true prequel to all versions of Transformers, so it focused more on producing a solid origin that honored what, in my opinion, most fans have declared their favorite approaches. [Plus the author is left to add his own favorites, which Alex mentioned in a recent interview].

Once again, only opinion, but I loved the book because it incorporated or acknowledged the main canons. References to Six Lasers Over Cybertron [Beast Wars], The Quints, Unicron, Orion Pax, the Wreckers, and I think they mentioned The Elite Guard, too. Ratbat was his G1 comics version I believe, Prime his Dreamwave War Within version kinda, and I think the simmer to a boil approach to the Prime/Megatron war of ideals rocked. it gives something from our childhood an awesome dramatic weight.

I know this thread's for focusing on the differences and not opinion, but I think DK's Ultimate Guide by Simon Furman should be due for a revision and they should ask you to work with him.

* Sentinel Prime seems to have been the only Prime in existence following the War of the Primes to come before Optimus, as he brought forth the Golden Age and then established the Caste System afterward, bringing the Golden Age to its end. * There was a long line of Primes that came before Optimus: Primon, the Alpha Prime --> Prima --> Prime Nova A.K.A. Nova Prime --> Guardian Prime --> Zeta Prime --> Sentinel Prime --> Optimus Prime * The only other Autobot leader known other than Optimus Prime was Rodimus, but he did not bear the Prime title and was of equal rank to Optimus. * There had been an entire Dynasty of Primes to come before Optimus * Optimus was not Autobot Supreme Commander and thus did not have any lineage of predecessors. Plus, here, the highest rank of leadership was called “Magnus”, with “Prime” being a lower rank. * However, those who were known to have bore the Magnus rank include Zeemon Magnus, Nova Magnus, Powered Convoy “P.C." Magnus, and Ultra Magnus. Sentinel Prime became the “acting Magnus”, but hasn’t officially received the rank yet."

-- In your above statements, you said of the Unicron Trilogy that Rodimus was the only other Autobot leader, however do not forget Vector Prime, as this would also follow the topic.

Man that is funny. I can't believe that anyone would even try to bring the different transformer stories together. They are all to different. It would be like someone trying to put all the Tenchi or Gundam stories together it will never work. But this was a great read. I might pick up the book.

Motto:"May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."

Fortress Rodimus wrote:Man that is funny. I can't believe that anyone would even try to bring the different transformer stories together. They are all to different. It would be like someone trying to put all the Tenchi or Gundam stories together it will never work. But this was a great read. I might pick up the book.

With Gundam, they're pretty straight-up when it comes to continuity. Each calender (Universal Century, Anno Domini, Cosmic Era, etc.) is a different continuity. Except for Gundam X, which is supposed to be an alternate future for Universal Century, and Turn-A Gundam which is (As I have been told seeing as how I haven't watch Turn-A yet) a sort of mix of all continuities somehow mashed together. it helped differentiate thigns when you realize that in nearly each continuity, Mobile Suits are fairly new inventions.

Oh, I am loving this feedback! Whether positive or negative, I don't care! It's all good conversation.

Nemesis37 wrote:I think I closed my mind off when I read it. I only noticed a handful of descrepancies when I read it, but they would only be descrepancies based on what source the reader chooses to christen the truth.

The only real differences that I wanted to point out as discrepencies were those existing between Exodus and WFC. The rest were to show that Exodus isn't a prequel to any existing fiction, but is really the start of a new era.

Nemesis37 wrote:I think Hasbro, when they commisioned this book, acknowledged that their cash cow had reached so many people through different incarnations that it would be IMPOSSIBLE to establish a true prequel to all versions of Transformers, so it focused more on producing a solid origin that honored what, in my opinion, most fans have declared their favorite approaches. [Plus the author is left to add his own favorites, which Alex mentioned in a recent interview].

Precisely. This is to show that it doesn't fit with any other series since it's its own entity linked only really with the Prime cartoon (and with WFC only via the characters' physical appearances).

Nemesis37 wrote:Once again, only opinion, but I loved the book because it incorporated or acknowledged the main canons.

More like it just handpicked little elements from past series and incorporated them into this story while discarding everything else. Though, it's better off that way as a separate piece of fiction from the rest of them.

Nemesis37 wrote:Ratbat was his G1 comics version I believe,

Or his G1 IDW self. I think it was that one that had him as a Senator.

Nemesis37 wrote:Prime his Dreamwave War Within version kinda,

More like a blend between his G1 cartoon and War Within self (cartoon Orion Pax name, War Within data clerk occupation).

Nemesis37 wrote:and I think the simmer to a boil approach to the Prime/Megatron war of ideals rocked. it gives something from our childhood an awesome dramatic weight.

Oh, yes! I loved the dynamic in the realtionship between Orion Pax and Megatron all throughout the book.

Nemesis37 wrote:I know this thread's for focusing on the differences and not opinion, but I think DK's Ultimate Guide by Simon Furman should be due for a revision and they should ask you to work with him.

BlackSilverBot wrote: -- In your above statements, you said of the Unicron Trilogy that Rodimus was the only other Autobot leader, however do not forget Vector Prime, as this would also follow the topic.

Allow me to explain why I left out Vector Prime. While an "Ask Vector Prime" answer did say that he was a leader long ago, we must remember that the Unicron Trilogy is not his home dimension. Being what he is, he has none. Therefore, we cannot say for certain that he was leader in that particular world (and that answer does seem kinda puzzling considering the nature of his being).

Plus, the Japanese version (being the authentic version of the story) used the rank of "Convoy" to define the Autobot leaders of that series, and Vector Prime was still called "Vector Prime" (instead of "Vector Convoy") in Japan as well. Both Optimus Prime and Rodimus held this rank (Optimus Prime was "Convoy" then "Grand Convoy" then "Galaxy Convoy"; and Rodimus was "Rodimus Convoy"), but Vector Prime did not.

Vector Prime was something a little more sacred than an Autobot leader.

Fortress Rodimus wrote:Man that is funny. I can't believe that anyone would even try to bring the different transformer stories together. They are all to different. It would be like someone trying to put all the Tenchi or Gundam stories together it will never work. But this was a great read. I might pick up the book.

Who said that they were trying to blend them all together? This was originally intended to contrast the book and the game it was based off of, as well as debunk any assumptions that the book is prequel to G1/the movies/anything that isn't the Prime cartoon.

Ultra Markus wrote:its like comparing the G1 cartoon with the G1 comic by marvelthey are very different may be same characters but different origins and stories

Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'

Ultra Markus wrote:its like comparing the G1 cartoon with the G1 comic by marvelthey are very different may be same characters but different origins and stories

Exactly, as much as people try to make the different incarnations fit, even when it seems like they are supposed to, they never really do. Often with things like G1 they don't even fit with themselves. For detailed purposed you really have to take each different property as completely separate. As a fan, my favorite stuff will probably always be G1 because that's what I grew up with. As much as I'd like the see that exact continuity further explored and expanded, I probably never will, but with all the similarities and whatnot, it's not terribly difficult to make your own unofficial continuity for yourself if you really want to get the further adventures of your favorites.

Personally loving G1, I tend to look at it as a fableized version of Transformers history; innaccurate tales told of Transformers history that were designed as stories to tell children (which is what they actually were anyway), but were never too historically accurate. That's how I looked at it when reading the Dreamwave G1 years back, and that's kinda how I looked at it while reading Exodus. Officially they aren't REALLY in the same continuity and they don't technically fit together AT ALL, but looking at G1 that fableized way they can sort of unofficially fit, and for me as big fan of G1 giving it that unofficial connection in my mind gives it the resonance of those characters from my childhood even if they aren't officially connected.

This list is a great example of how the different continuities will never actually fit, and that people should probably stop trying to make some official connection. Hasbro clearly realizes this and seems to be starting everything from scratch with Exodus and Prime and that's probably for the best, but I wouldn't mind some more fun stuff like Exodus that I can have my own personal connections with.

For the decision to do this.For the strength to do this (I'm sure it was a labor of love).For the result.

Well done.I'll come back to read more and I recommend and vote that this gets copied and pasted into a Wiki page to remain in history forever so that it doesn't fade away into the deep dark depths of the old posts lists.

Brilliant,Sabrblade.You deserve to choose a new name for yourself as a trophy.

(Edit: My own fooling around with my name does not put me in your league,it's just cheaper than buying lots of new hats).

"Everyone has a hobby.Even people who say they don't still have one under another name.If we're sick,injured, we still go to it and get down to see how it is.If it needs something, we bring it,make sure the attention is perfect.It exercises our care and protection and gives us back philosophies.It's a living thing to us,and is the most perfect way to teach a young person how to be towards a living thing. It's something that should never be taken away." -my Wife

Fearing wrote:Exactly, as much as people try to make the different incarnations fit, even when it seems like they are supposed to, they never really do. Often with things like G1 they don't even fit with themselves. For detailed purposed you really have to take each different property as completely separate. As a fan, my favorite stuff will probably always be G1 because that's what I grew up with. As much as I'd like the see that exact continuity further explored and expanded, I probably never will, but with all the similarities and whatnot, it's not terribly difficult to make your own unofficial continuity for yourself if you really want to get the further adventures of your favorites.

Personally loving G1, I tend to look at it as a fableized version of Transformers history; innaccurate tales told of Transformers history that were designed as stories to tell children (which is what they actually were anyway), but were never too historically accurate. That's how I looked at it when reading the Dreamwave G1 years back, and that's kinda how I looked at it while reading Exodus. Officially they aren't REALLY in the same continuity and they don't technically fit together AT ALL, but looking at G1 that fableized way they can sort of unofficially fit, and for me as big fan of G1 giving it that unofficial connection in my mind gives it the resonance of those characters from my childhood even if they aren't officially connected.

This list is a great example of how the different continuities will never actually fit, and that people should probably stop trying to make some official connection. Hasbro clearly realizes this and seems to be starting everything from scratch with Exodus and Prime and that's probably for the best, but I wouldn't mind some more fun stuff like Exodus that I can have my own personal connections with.

Technically, while all the different versions of each story do not fit together with each other in a linked sense, they do all fit together in the grand scheme of things by having them set within their own Universal Streams in the Multiverse.

For just the Aligned Continuity Family alone, there are at least six different versions of the story told by WFC, Exodus, and Prime.

NOTE:Red arrows symbolize an impossible connection. I also left out both the WFC sequel and the Exodus sequel until we have more info on them than what we already have.

Mektek Smoketreader wrote::APPLAUSE: For the decision to do this.For the strength to do this (I'm sure it was a labor of love).For the result.

Mektek Smoketreader wrote:Well done.I'll come back to read more and I recommend and vote that this gets copied and pasted into a Wiki page to remain in history forever so that it doesn't fade away into the deep dark depths of the old posts lists.

Mektek Smoketreader wrote:Brilliant,Sabrblade.You deserve to choose a new name for yourself as a trophy.

(Edit: My own fooling around with my name does not put me in your league,it's just cheaper than buying lots of new hats).

Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'

One thing I don't get in your multiverse graph there is how any version of Exodus or WFC can logically fit with Prime. I have not read the Prime graphic novel yet, and perhaps that is the missing link, but in both WFC and Exodus, Dark Energon seems to be fairly well known to everyone, but in the first episodes of Prime, it seems to be a new discovery (it's been a little while since I've watched those first episodes, so maybe I missed something there). This has probably been discussed elsewhere, but having a wife,2 young kids, etc, and seemingly no time anymore it's hard to find the time to check the forums too often. Since continuity is the big topic here and you seem to be as well versed as anyone, I figured I'd ask. Does the graphic novel explain this or am I missing something else? I had planned to check it out anyway, but I probably would sooner if it is important.

Fearing wrote:One thing I don't get in your multiverse graph there is how any version of Exodus or WFC can logically fit with Prime. I have not read the Prime graphic novel yet, and perhaps that is the missing link, but in both WFC and Exodus, Dark Energon seems to be fairly well known to everyone, but in the first episodes of Prime, it seems to be a new discovery (it's been a little while since I've watched those first episodes, so maybe I missed something there).

This notion has been addressed, yes. That reaction to Dark Energon in the second episode was done so that viewers who had neither played the games nor read the book could be introduced to the stuff. Plus, in the third episode, Optimus and Ratchet both knew of the existence of Dark Energon, though Ratchet claimed that any source of it had become scarce.

However, millions and millions of years had passed between the time of the book/games and the time of the show. So, by then, the supply of Dark Energon could have gone dry during all that time. After all, the book did claim that its lasting effects were very brief.

Plus, the Dark Energon in the show is very different from that of the book/games. While the book pretty much had the Dark Energon needing a living host to wield it, the shows has it reanimating the dead instead. Whenever a Darkened Deceptcion would die in the book, the Dark Energon left its host corpse and would move onto another living vessel, while the show has it practically thriving on dead soldiers.

For this discrepancy, one could say that the Dark Energon in the show could be a different variant from the Dark Energon in the book/games. After all, the book dubbed Dark Energon the "Sparks of Unicron", while the shows calls it the "Blood of Unicron".

As for the Prime graphic novel, it's basically just a telling of how Cliffjumper, Arcee, and Starscream all got to Earth from Cybertron, as well as introducing us to the Vehicons and Breakdown (this means that Breakdown had been on Earth even before episode 1).

Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'

trence5 wrote:Ok, does any of these talk about the relation between Optimus Prime and Ultra Magnus?

I didn't go into this because the book doesn't cover this. Nor do the WFC game, the G1 cartoon, the Beast Era cartoons, the Unicron Trilogy cartoons, or the Movie fiction. Animated does have a relationship, but it's not one that be all that interesting to mention.

Had I brought it up, this is pretty much all I could have said about it.

The relationship between Optimus Prime and Ultra Magnus

Ultra Magnus served under Optimus Prime's command as the leader of the Wreckers

Ultra Magnus was not involved in the any of the console game's events

Ultra Magnus served under Optimus Prime's command as the Autobot City Commander

Ultra Magnus played no involvement in the Beast Era

Overload (called Ultra Magnus in Japan) mostly served as a cannon combination upgrade for Optimus Prime

The real Ultra Magnus was not involved in the events of the Unicron Trilogy cartoon, nor did he interact with Optimus Prime

We know nothing the Movie version of Ultra Magnus, nor any relation of his to Optimus Prime

Ultra Magnus is the Autobot Supreme Commander who gave Optimus his rank of Prime

Aside from maybe one or two points, there's not much of interest in this issue to be mentioned, and so I didn't bring it up.

It was mostly the RiD cartoon and the different comic series that go into this relationship, but I left those out since:

The RiD cartoon didn't have enough backstory material to fit into this comparison,and

I was going with what I'm most familiar with and omitted nearly all the comic stuff. I'm slowly trying to read them to better familiarize myself with them, but it's slow going and one user on here begged me to not add on to this since it'd be too much work for me.

Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'

One thing I would add to this that I just thought of for some odd reason, is that because of the nature of the G1 cartoon and that it manages to contradict itself fairly substantially, the fact that Exodus contradicts it, by its nature, would not rule it out of being G1 canon. By the way the G1 cartoon already works, it'd actually fit in better and just fit the run of conflicting information that the show already has. Intended somewhat jokingly, but it does make a bit of sense. Obviously from an official standpoint, it's still not part of that universe(although I do remember reading something from the author saying he tried to make it vague enough and incorporate enough into it that if you wanted to fit it into your favorite version of the Transformers, you could somewhat justify it(again not it any real official way of course)), but just having that pop into my head, I thought I'd throw that out there.

Fearing wrote:One thing I would add to this that I just thought of for some odd reason, is that because of the nature of the G1 cartoon and that it manages to contradict itself fairly substantially, the fact that Exodus contradicts it, by its nature, would not rule it out of being G1 canon. By the way the G1 cartoon already works, it'd actually fit in better and just fit the run of conflicting information that the show already has. Intended somewhat jokingly, but it does make a bit of sense. Obviously from an official standpoint, it's still not part of that universe(although I do remember reading something from the author saying he tried to make it vague enough and incorporate enough into it that if you wanted to fit it into your favorite version of the Transformers, you could somewhat justify it(again not it any real official way of course)), but just having that pop into my head, I thought I'd throw that out there.

I'll probably get crap for this but....the idea that the G1 cartoon "contradict itself fairly substantially" is a misconception.

Yes, there are some minor contradictions, but none that create a big continuity issue that can be called "substantial".

And I'm sure someone with drag out the "so called" contradiction in the Constructicons origin..........but I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Theres no real contradiction in the Constructicons origin, only a perceived one.

Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe

Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds

T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach

Certainly there are ways to explain the apparent contradiction between things like the origin of the Dinobots vs the origin of the Aerialbots on the show, but there are equally ways (if a person really wanted to make the book fit) to explain away apparent contradictions between the book and the show (the Star Wars and Halo universes have gotten really good at coming up with complete extra stories and such to explain what otherwise would be conflicting material). But as the original poster in this topic stated he was taking everything at the basest face value of appearances without having to come up with an explaination of things(or something to that effect). In which case, without some additional material, things in the show, like Wheeljack claiming he made the Dinobots, basically contradict the fact that later when trying to make the Aerialbots, they cannot just be made, but must be granted a spark. For the purposes of this thread where everything is at face value, is where my point is made.

Fearing wrote:One thing I would add to this that I just thought of for some odd reason, is that because of the nature of the G1 cartoon and that it manages to contradict itself fairly substantially, the fact that Exodus contradicts it, by its nature, would not rule it out of being G1 canon. By the way the G1 cartoon already works, it'd actually fit in better and just fit the run of conflicting information that the show already has. Intended somewhat jokingly, but it does make a bit of sense. Obviously from an official standpoint, it's still not part of that universe(although I do remember reading something from the author saying he tried to make it vague enough and incorporate enough into it that if you wanted to fit it into your favorite version of the Transformers, you could somewhat justify it(again not it any real official way of course)), but just having that pop into my head, I thought I'd throw that out there.

I'll probably get crap for this but....the idea that the G1 cartoon "contradict itself fairly substantially" is a misconception.

Yes, there are some minor contradictions, but none that create a big continuity issue that can be called "substantial".

And I'm sure someone with drag out the "so called" contradiction in the Constructicons origin..........but I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Theres no real contradiction in the Constructicons origin, only a perceived one.

Megatron meant to say: "that the Decepticons rebuilt them in those caves" in season 1. That's my opinion on that.

Fearing wrote:But as the original poster in this topic stated he was taking everything at the basest face value of appearances without having to come up with an explaination of things(or something to that effect).

I did, however, say that I included some supplementary material such as the Animated AllSpark Almanacs and the Movie comics to accompany the information of the cartoons/movies.

And, like Sto said, the contradictions that exist within the G1 cartoon are very minimal when compared to the more blatant contradictions between the G1 cartoon and the Exodus novel. In the case of the G1 cartoon, its only a few bits and pieces that conflict with each other, whereas it's an entire history of events and entire personalities of characters in the Exodus novel that conflict with the G1 cartoon.

Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'

Fearing wrote:Certainly there are ways to explain the apparent contradiction between things like the origin of the Dinobots vs the origin of the Aerialbots on the show, but there are equally ways (if a person really wanted to make the book fit) to explain away apparent contradictions between the book and the show (the Star Wars and Halo universes have gotten really good at coming up with complete extra stories and such to explain what otherwise would be conflicting material). But as the original poster in this topic stated he was taking everything at the basest face value of appearances without having to come up with an explaination of things(or something to that effect). In which case, without some additional material, things in the show, like Wheeljack claiming he made the Dinobots, basically contradict the fact that later when trying to make the Aerialbots, they cannot just be made, but must be granted a spark. For the purposes of this thread where everything is at face value, is where my point is made.

For the record, there isint much of a contradiction between the Dino's origin and the Aerial bots, when you examin how it was all explained.

yheres a difference between an "apparent contradiction" and an "actual contradiction".

Last edited by sto_vo_kor_2000 on Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe

Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds

T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach