Gosh, I've been waiting for a long time to say it on the day that Apple overtook MSFT in mkt cap! I finally got my chance! Who knows what tomorrow may bring (I have a good guess), but today, I am going to celebrate!

Apple has recently peaked at a market cap of $248 billion. Several analysts' target price is $300 or more which would put market cap within range of Exxon. It's not a question of if but when. I think it will happen within 6 months.

There are many Apple-centric sites and followers that become giddy everytime there is a blip up in Apple's market share. Even Steve Jobs is not immune to that.

Well yeah, but that is comparing marketshare over the previous marketshare for that companies product category. It indicates that the product is outpacing the industries growth.

If they did it by selling $400 notebooks then it wouldn't mean squat, but they aren't. And it's not comparing a company selling PCs to a company that licenses OSes to every PC company.

Marketshare is relevant to show stockholders growth and trends only when other factors are being determined, but the people posting that Apple won't be anything until they best MS' OS marketshare are just myopic and foolish as it require Apple owning 50% of the PC hardware sales, which is twice as much as the current industry leader, HP, currently sells. For Apple to match HP at 25% Apple would still only have a 25% OS marketshare, yet they'd be making about 80% of the industries profits. That just isn't going to happen unless Apple changes their business model. I don't think that is likely and wonder why anyone thinks that is.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

I'm an apple fan forever, BUT I have to admit MSFT has a huge R&D department and invests in fundamental techs more than apple - example the huge effort and push to get F# out the door which for me is a huge step forward from C. Apple has been saving money modding open source stuff which is great for profits and compatibility but is not doing the dev world any favors. As a Software company that lives on how good 3rd party apps are apple should do everything in it's power to make it easier for them.

I have to admit my next dev effort will be F# - I can't afford the untold wasted hours on Xcode inefficiencies

Apple if you are the biggest in the world - you need to give back and assume the rolls that AT&T did of yesteryear - establish an Apple Research division which invests in fundamental technology - not just applied tech for the next year or two, and beef up those dev tools to be better than the competition!

Apple has recently peaked at a market cap of $248 billion. Several analysts' target price is $300 or more which would put market cap within range of Exxon. It's not a question of if but when. I think it will happen within 6 months.

or the coming quarterly results. Exxon seems to be dropping as fast as apple is rising.

I'm an apple fan forever, BUT I have to admit MSFT has a huge R&D department and invests in fundamental techs more than apple - example the huge effort and push to get F# out the door which for me is a huge step forward from C. Apple has been saving money modding open source stuff which is great for profits and compatibility but is not doing the dev world any favors. As a Software company that lives on how good 3rd party apps are apple should do everything in it's power to make it easier for them.

I have to admit my next dev effort will be F# - I can't afford the untold wasted hours on Xcode inefficiencies

Apple if you are the biggest in the world - you need to give back and assume the rolls that AT&T did of yesteryear - establish an Apple Research division which invests in fundamental technology - not just applied tech for the next year or two, and beef up those dev tools to be better than the competition!

I believe SJ is holding such large cash reserves only to invest them all as soon as some "game changing" opportunity arrives.

What is truly amazing is that Apple did this not by racing to the bottom by creating commodity devices that undersold everyone else. Perhaps a poor analogy, but almost as if Rolex became the biggest watch manufacturer while continuing to make only their signature brand.

Apple if you are the biggest in the world - you need to give back and assume the rolls that AT&T did of yesteryear - establish an Apple Research division which invests in fundamental technology - not just applied tech for the next year or two, and beef up those dev tools to be better than the competition!

This is a GREAT point. Apple should create the equivalent of a Bell Labs (but keep the good stuff for themselves!). BL represented the pinnacle of of American corporate innovation.

Your data is different from Google Finance. Do you really think that is Wolfram|Alpha is the best choice without backing it up or noticing that the latest trades data is recent but the other areas are based on older data? Or how about reading what AI and other tech and finance sites are measuring?

We have to wonder about how many iPads Apple will sell this quarter, and possibly even next. As the shortages seem so severe, their sales could be significantly less than all the new, high predictions are making them out to be.

Apple if you are the biggest in the world - you need to give back and assume the rolls that AT&T did of yesteryear - establish an Apple Research division which invests in fundamental technology - not just applied tech for the next year or two, and beef up those dev tools to be better than the competition!

When Apple tried to counter the trend in the US market, it raised the situation worldwide. Sure, Apple was ahead by several millions or so, 5.4M Androids vs 8.5M iPhones. But, RIM could make the same argument in terms of marketshare (10.5M). In terms of growth rate, Apple may overtake RIM, but Android, at the pace indicated may trounce the iPhone.

If you want to wager***, I would predict that by next year, the Android would surpass Apple iPhone (the phone component) in terms of marketshare. And base from their stage in the sigmoidal growth curve, I would predict Android still would maintain higher growth rate than Apple but at a slower pace of growth rate.

However they define smartphone, Nokia remains the uncontested leader followed a distant second by RIM in terms of marketshare.

So where is Apple "product ... outpacing the industries growth"?

I did not include the profitability factor because it has always been the focus of Apple once it decided to cater to a more discriminating crowd. And, if profitability is the focus, the strategy about all these ephemeral and neverending "races" would require different propaganda strategies. A good example of that propaganda to win consumers is the Mac vs PC ads -- in a PC market where Mac computers has lost the marketshare race several decades ago.

Does this strategy mean that Apple is aversed to low profit margin or to reach the lower end market? Not exactly.

It sold cheaper models of the iPods to ensure its dominance in the digital music market.

Apple did reduce the prices of its Mac products.

And did the same for the iPhone.

The back to school sale with free iPod (or $199) is another significant reduction in price to protect Apple's share in education.

Apple similarly priced the iPad, much lower than analysts estimates to increase reception of what was then a product that was not known to be a definite winner.

Tim Cook, I believe was very forceful that they will do what it takes to price their product more competitively.

Apple is winning against the competition because of its diverse and well-integrated ecosystem and continue to culture that diversity with innovation. It would be fascinating to see process progress as the Apple "walled garden" compete with an almost opposite type of strategy, the more open "Android ecosystem.

CGC

***Wager
The one who loses will not post in any Mac or mobile computing site for a year.

A decade ago, when Steve Ballmer took over as CEO of Microsoft and Steve Jobs had recently reclaimed the CEO slot at Apple, Apple had a market cap of $16 billion and Microsoft had a market cap of $556 billion.

and from Silicon Alley Insider:

Quote:

In other words, Apple has gained about $210 billion of market value and Microsoft has lost about $325 billion. Put differently, a decade ago, Microsoft was worth $540 billion more than Apple.

Using the last year-over-year quarter growth, Adnroid outpaced the growth of Apple iPhone (the phone component worldwide): 807% vs. 117%.

Please, for the love of your god, at least try to compare like things. Android is a free OS. The iPhone is a for purchase piece of HW. You constantly want to look at Android from one quarter to the next but not compare it to it's previous quarter to indicate growth in the market, only to the well established top dog so you can say how the iPhone is a failure. That is an erroneous use of numbers and you know this or you are woefully ignorant. This is the whole Windows v. Mac OS marketshare thing that I debunked in my previous comment. It means nothing to compare these dissimilar things.

Until you can understand how Apple owning 1/3rd of the handset and PC market profits are important to investors you really shouldn't be posting on a thread about finances.

Quote:

It would be fascinating to see process progress as the Apple "walled garden" compete with an almost opposite type of strategy, the more open "Android ecosystem.

Because you want them to they should? Lest we forget, Google already tried to follow Apple with a that with a Google branded Nexus One and despite the spec increase over other Android-based phones it was one of the worse selling Android phone with the iPhone 3GS on the 4th carrier in the UK outselling it despite the 3GS being more than halfway through its release cycle and Google closing down online sales 4 months after it went on sale. MS also tried this by screwing their Play4Sure partners and creating the Zune. Neither Google nor MS can compete with Apple's full service business model. Maybe you need to alter your PoV to see that Apple is already owning every market they are in by understanding the markets they sell to while Google and MS can't understand anything past SW.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

We have to wonder about how many iPads Apple will sell this quarter, and possibly even next. As the shortages seem so severe, their sales could be significantly less than all the new, high predictions are making them out to be.

I hope that's not the case, of course, but it could be.

I'm happy I stood in line April 3rd to get my 3G.

But I thought no one want to buy an oversized iPod Touch and Apple will not sell six million iPads this year. It is amazing that you don't see those trolls anymore. Maybe they will come back around WWDC

Using the last year-over-year quarter growth, Adnroid outpaced the growth of Apple iPhone (the phone component worldwide): 807% vs. 117%.

If you want to wager***, I would predict that by next year, the Android would surpass Apple iPhone (the phone component) in terms of marketshare. And base from their stage in the sigmoidal growth curve, I would predict Android still would maintain higher growth rate than Apple but at a slower pace of growth rate.

However they define smartphone, Nokia remains the uncontested leader followed a distant second by RIM in terms of marketshare.

So where is Apple "product ... outpacing the industries growth"?

I did not include the profitability factor because it has always been the focus of Apple once it decided to cater to a more discriminating crowd. And, if profitability is the focus, the strategy about all these ephemeral and neverending "races" would require different propaganda strategies. A good example of that propaganda to win consumers is the Mac vs PC ads -- in a PC market where Mac computers has lost the marketshare race several decades ago.

Does this strategy mean that Apple is aversed to low profit margin or to reach the lower end market? Not exactly.

It sold cheaper models of the iPods to ensure its dominance in the digital music market.

Apple did reduce the prices of its Mac products.

And did the same for the iPhone.

The back to school sale with free iPod (or $199) is another significant reduction in price to protect Apple's share in education.

Apple similarly priced the iPad, much lower than analysts estimates to increase reception of what was then a product that was not known to be a definite winner.

Tim Cook, I believe was very forceful that they will do what it takes to price their product more competitively.

Apple is winning against the competition because of its diverse and well-integrated ecosystem and continue to culture that diversity with innovation. It would be fascinating to see process progress as the Apple "walled garden" compete with an almost opposite type of strategy, the more open "Android ecosystem.

CGC

***Wager
The one who loses will not post in any Mac or mobile computing site for a year.

The industries growth in smartphones was about 48% last quarter, and Apple's was about 132%. That's outpacing the industries growth.

Android is made by a bunch of manufacturers, and are sold on all four US networks, when the iPhone is made in one model, and sold on one network. The numbers are hard to categorize therefor. Both RIM and Nokia have lost marketshare. That's negative growth.

It would be fascinating to see process progress as the Apple "walled garden" compete with an almost opposite type of strategy, the more open "Android ecosystem.

CGC

***Wager
The one who loses will not post in any Mac or mobile computing site for a year.

See I don't think we should look at this as winners or losers. This is just the same philosophical war as with the PC vs MAc.
I think it's inevitable that android will gain a larger market share, but as we know, market share don't mean jack. Both can survive. Both have differing target markets. The supposed 'openness' of Android will also be it's weakness.

And they both live in harmony, forever after....

...oh and as for the big bad Microsoft, well nobody heard of them ever again.... rumour has it you can still buy their products in Radio Shack.

But I thought no one want to buy an oversized iPod Touch and Apple will not sell six million iPads this year. It is amazing that you don't see those trolls anymore. Maybe the will come back around WWDC

It's interesting how so many people think that until they use it. I'm having this situation with my friends.

Please, for the love of your god, at least try to compare like things. Android is a free OS. The iPhone is a for purchase piece of HW. .

Using your argument, the Linux OS is also free, like the Android OS, and should fare better than the iPhone. In fact, Linux based phones lost a whopping 21.5% year-over-year, during the last quarter.

Do you really think consumers care that the Android is a free OS? They too purchase a piece of hardware, that happen to contain the free Android OS. More than likely, they do not even know what OS is running their phone.

Whatever you use, worldwide, Apple is not the leader in marketshare, nor the current leader in growth rate.

Respond when you can get out of that, or consider my wager.

Quote:

Originally Posted by monstrosity

See I don't think we should look at this as winners or losers. This is just the same philosophical war as with the PC vs MAc.
I think it's inevitable that android will gain a larger market share, but as we know, market share don't mean jack. Both can survive. Both have differing target markets. The supposed 'openness' of Android will also be it's weakness.

And they both live in harmony, forever after....

...oh and as for the big bad Microsoft, well nobody heard of them ever again.... rumour has it you can still buy their products in Radio Shack.

That is my whole point against this worship concerning marketshare and growth rate -- on both sides. I may not be a fan of Microsoft, but I would not be surprised if someone else like it better.

Gosh, I've been waiting for a long time to say it on the day that Apple overtook MSFT in mkt cap! I finally got my chance! Who knows what tomorrow may bring (I have a good guess), but today, I am going to celebrate!

Using your argument, the Linux OS is also free, like the Android OS, and should fare better than the iPhone. In fact, Linux based phones lost a whopping 21.5% year-over-year, during the last quarter.

Do you really think consumers care that the Android is a free OS? They too purchase a piece of hardware, that happen to contain the free Android OS. More than likely, they do not even know what OS is running their phone.

Whatever you use, worldwide, Apple is not the leader in marketshare, nor the current leader in growth rate. Respond when you can get out of that.

CGC

It's all about philosophy not price.

Linux = communism (and fails for the same reasons)
Windows/Android = democracy (has some parallels , such as the free market).
Apple = well..... a Dictatorship!

Not all dictatorships are good though, in-fact most are crap. A dictatorship is only as good as it's dictator.
But get a good one, and you can run an exceptionally tight ship.

Take Nazi germany for example (an no I don't think he was a 'good' man!) that loon ran a ship so tight that a population of merely 60million almost took over the whole planet. Ya gotta hand it to him, he knew how to get stuff done!

Using your argument, the Linux OS is also free, like the Android OS, and should fare better than the iPhone. In fact, Linux based phones lost a whopping 21.5% year-over-year, during the last quarter.

Do you really think consumers care that the Android is a free OS? They too purchase a piece of hardware, that happen to contain the free Android OS. More than likely, they do not even know what OS is running their phone.

Whatever you use, worldwide, Apple is not the leader in marketshare, nor the current leader in growth rate. Respond when you can get out of that.

CGC

1) Android uses a Linux kernel.

2) This is about 'a' HW product from one vendor comparing to the industry's growth. Yet you still keep wanting to compare the OS from dozens of HW products from dozens of vendors comparing to the HW from a single vendor. DOES NOT COMPUTE

3) If you want to compare a vendor to a vendor — even though this thread has absolutely nothing to do with cross vendor comparisons of a single product — then why don't you compare HTC smartphones to Apple smartphones on a thread that is relevant to that discussion. You'll have to take off some blinders to do that and this point I think they have become a permanent fixture.

4) No matter how much you deny it, Apple has been market share leader in revenue at least once last year.

5) You are really quite tiresome. Unless you can actually show some personal growth I won't be responding to you again and assisting you jack this thread any more than you already have.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

2) This is about 'a' HW product from one vendor comparing to the industry's growth. Yet you still keep wanting to compare the OS from dozens of HW products from dozens of vendors comparing to the HW from a single vendor. DOES NOT COMPUTE

3) If you want to compare a vendor to a vendor even though this thread has absolutely nothing to do with cross vendor comparisons of a single product then why don't you compare HTC smartphones to Apple smartphones on a thread that is relevant to that discussion. You'll have to take off some blinders to do that and this point I think they have become a permanent fixture.

4) No matter how much you deny it, Apple has been market share leader in revenue at least once last year.

5) You are really quite tiresome. Unless you can actually show some personal growth I won't be responding to you again and assisting you jack this thread any more than you already have.