Posts: 5441
Joined: 1/26/2005 From: Planning the end of the world, well the next 12 moStatus: offline

I've played the first fortnight a few times.

The whole new arena a types of units makes it amazing.

A few observations.

Fall of Denmark: IRL Denmark officially resisted for only 2 hours, in the game it takes a long time to kill each Danish unit. Thought, Would giving all Danish LCU a withdrawal date of 10/4/41 replicate this, Wermacht troops still have to occupy the bases but dont have to fight a campaign.

Too many LCU & Air Units on map: For soley the Denmark/Norway campaign, you have too many units, is there a need for Dutch, Belgian and France based French/British LCU and Air Forces in game. (I had my Luftwaffe raiding Belgian HQ at Brussels when their target had moved and some of the units due to arrive in May 1945 look useful)

Too much of the Royal Navy is in game. Again, too many for just this campaign, you can really swamp the poor Kriegsmarine.

More an observation for discussion: You have the British/French troops arriving in Norway at historical sites, does this limit the AFB to fighting as per real life (but the same goes for the GFB set up.) Some will like, some wont.

Sadly, the AE engine doesnt handle continental warfare with LCU, I had most LCU in "Move" mode most of the time but still seemed a bit slow, with the low combat strength of the Danish/Norwegian Bns this didnt hurt. I think 40 mile hexes and Bn sized units doesnt work.

Fall of Denmark, yes, Danish troops really prevents more than true, let them disappear after two days I felt wrong. (Let's give them a chance ...)

Too many LCU & Air Units on map: There are so many units, how much there actually was! For example, axis have a total of 3 Fighter Group (1 JG (48) and 2 ZG (2x36)) It is not much ... Ground units maybe it does. It is because several German divisions are split into smaller units. Because naval assault course. Later he joined. No other army in Europe are not, the player does not attack targets in Belgium and the like. It is written in HR and need to respect that. (unfortunately, are still only in Czech)

RN has a lot of ships, as in reality. It is this factor which largely compensates for a balance with axis side. It's just important to how successful players RN ships used.

Movement on the map. File pwhex is done in the editor, which is used for Pacific battlefield. There is no difference corresponds to the movement. Support units are provided in the range of 0.85 to 0.95% of the power units. (Approximately as in the original AE) This is not a scenario "Bn size" is the size of a normal AE. Distribution of certain divisions and brigades I have already explained. Dali

Hi, I tried your mod and it looks quite cool. I found some strange stuff though: There is no garrison in several German or British cities, which causes the loss of 1 VP each turn. Gun No 1213 has a range of 0? I think it should have 10 or 11. All admirals and captains of German Navy have Japanese names. Motorized units march only 30miles per turn. This seems a bit slow as trucks, halftracks and tanks could easily march this distance in 2 hours, especially in clear European landscape with lots of streets etc. As this seems to be hardcoded, you might want to use rail instead of streets to speed things up a bit. It is especially frustrating in Denmark as the motorized units will not reach the first Danish unit until day 2. In reality war in Denmark was over at this point. Uboat classes XXIII and XXI are missing (or I am unable to find them). Those were used in 1945.

Germany lost no single ship while the landings in Denmark. In your mod, the German ships die like flies in Danish minefields. This is a little too much. Maybe it would be a good thing to leave the Danish minefields out of the scenario.

All German ships regularily suffer pump failure or other strange defects, which might be plausible for Japanese ship, but surely not for larger German ones.

The British TF which was trying to land troops in Narvik and was just hours late isn´t in the mod at all. Even the troops are not there from the beginning.

FAT and Zaunkönig torpedoes are missing. The same is true for decoy (bold) the Germans used from 1942 on. Maybe it would work to simple make later U-boats harder to detect or to damage/sink by increasing their maneuver or durability. Else all German subs lack their radar equipment or their Schleppschrauber http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Achgelis_FA_330 (about 150 were used!).

Not to speak of the German helicopter unit, which trained on helicopters from 1941/42 on (although there were only some of them). But these are only little gems.

Posts: 5441
Joined: 1/26/2005 From: Planning the end of the world, well the next 12 moStatus: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dali

AD JeffK

Fall of Denmark, yes, Danish troops really prevents more than true, let them disappear after two days I felt wrong. (Let's give them a chance ...) I dont think this is correct, added to the fact that AE engine doesnt move LCU fast enough (as also mentioned by Frank) means Denmark takes12-14 to clear, I'm nit sure they had enough ammo! Too many LCU & Air Units on map: There are so many units, how much there actually was! For example, axis have a total of 3 Fighter Group (1 JG (48) and 2 ZG (2x36)) It is not much ... Ground units maybe it does. It is because several German divisions are split into smaller units. Because naval assault course. Later he joined. No other army in Europe are not, the player does not attack targets in Belgium and the like. It is written in HR and need to respect that. (unfortunately, are still only in Czech) The land units of Nederlands, Belgium, France, The BEF and most of Germany are not needed in this SCENARIO, same goes for their respective Air Forces. I had a case where Luftwaffe Bombers sank thier targets then decided to bomb a TF in London at long range, unescorted and in the face of a Spitfire Sqn. Remove the target and keep them on track. maybe its worth making the map a bit shorter, is the English Channel relevant. HR are unessecary if the option isnt there.

RN has a lot of ships, as in reality. It is this factor which largely compensates for a balance with axis side. It's just important to how successful players RN ships used. I dont understand, while the RN had a lot of ships the majority were off doing other things, the British Official History names a lot of the shipping actually used, and there is an RN website which names combatants by theatre (but would be a lot of work.) If you use all of the shipping provided, the RN has the ability to swamp the Kriegsmarine and totally wreck any German plans.

Movement on the map. File pwhex is done in the editor, which is used for Pacific battlefield. There is no difference corresponds to the movement. Support units are provided in the range of 0.85 to 0.95% of the power units. (Approximately as in the original AE) This is not a scenario "Bn size" is the size of a normal AE. Distribution of certain divisions and brigades I have already explained. Dali What I mean is that the AE engine, designed for Island warfare does not handle Continental Land Combat very well in AE let alone a fully Continental Campaign as in Europe. Added to this is the stopping power (in game) of a Company or battalion sized unit. You can have a stack of 2 Infantry & 1 Mntn Division held up for a day or 2 by a company, while it happened from time to time, you also see men running from the overwhelming force approaching them. (In a board game you would see an overrun at high odds)Its just something AE doesnt do well. I think it would do a good WW1/ACW or Napoleonics campaign quite well

I dont intend to knock your efforts, I'll download the update and play again, its different from another game of AE!!, but am wary of trying to fit a European Theatre into a Pacific Theatre game. Just the concentration of units in a small space is amazing

Just briefly: Resistance Denmark consider optimal. (it is necessary to be part of the German offensive army properly employed)

Yes, the map is great. Understand please. This scenario 26 is just a tutorial. SCN 27 starts exactly the same, just simply continues. (in the period prior to May 10, 1940, shows a large number of units for the entire western campaign) The map is at 27 SCN as wide, but continues further south to Corsica.

The suitability for ground combat engine will not express. Nobody is forcing you to play. I like and prefer. Among the conquest of England such as the Philippines and I do not see any difference. Thank you for your evaluation. Dali

Hi Dali, you set the base for the whole War in Europe, which is a very great job with lots and lots of work. The scen Den/Nor is quite cool, but of course about everyone likes to see the whole war simulated. This would mean a start in september 1939 and an end in 1945. The problem imho is, that there are only very limited naval aspects worth making a scenario off. Weserübung, you have done it. Torch, Husky, D-Day, the landing in Sicily and then Italy, possibly Antio.

As land warfare is quite "strange" with this engine, it would possibly be a good thing to have a closer look on the airwar from 1939 till the end. This would mean to give the player the ends to change the direction of plane research as an early Me262 as fighter in 1943 or the developement of the Feuerlilie SAM as an extrastrong AA-Gun. Therefore it might be nessesary to change the hexsize from 40miles to 20 miles, slowing down land forces even more (I don´t know how it really works, but I am afraid, there is a hardcoded speed limit.)

To improve the existing scenario,one shall: - give a list of German names to German commanders and pilots - edit ships to give them the right radar for the timeline (Brits no radar, Germans Seetakt) - remove all Danish troops from the scenario including all minefields. As land units move slow, it ist then possible to use the Danish bases in about 10 days, which is almost in line with real life - include some garrisons to stop the loss of VP - edit the mountain gun - include the Allied forces planned to use in Norway - give airdroppable seamines to both sides as Germany as well as Britain used those - if you add all ships of the Royal Navy, you should add all planes for Germany. - you should somehow force the player to transport british forces an supplies to France, creating jobs for all those Brit destroyers. Don´t forget, there was a landwar on the continent and France and Britain were struggling to reinforce. - you should remove all resources from Britian, so there have to be convoys from Canada to be escorted Using both ways would reduce the forces the Brits have to simple put a ship in each hex of the map and watch all and every amphibious TF to return to Hamburg etc. - There were enormous minefields in the Northsea at that time, which had to be maintained and used up forces from both sides, too.

In case I have some time the next weeks, I´ll try to mod your mod and look, how it works out. Please, don´t feel bad because of my critisism. I am really happy someone invested the time to do this job. For a beta it is really really great!

As land warfare is quite "strange" with this engine, it would possibly be a good thing to have a closer look on the airwar from 1939 till the end. This would mean to give the player the ends to change the direction of plane research as an early Me262 as fighter in 1943 or the developement of the Feuerlilie SAM as an extrastrong AA-Gun. I have to disappoint you. Manufacturing (and even research) are at Axis set firmly. Me-262 in 1943 will not .... I am interested in a historical scenarios.

Therefore it might be nessesary to change the hexsize from 40miles to 20 miles, slowing down land forces even more No, I will not do. Just create a map file and pwhex cost me for life.

To improve the existing scenario,one shall: - give a list of German names to German commanders and pilots This is partly done. Thank you Hans. Currently, this problem will not work.

- edit ships to give them the right radar for the timeline (Brits no radar, Germans Seetakt) This is partly done. I tried to bring the ship into a state RN 1940. But there may be some mistakes.

- remove all Danish troops from the scenario including all minefields. As land units move slow, it ist then possible to use the Danish bases in about 10 days, which is almost in line with real life No. The Danish army had existed, and certainly it will not delete. Axis player must defeat her. Move the German troops (largely on foot and horse-drawn vehicles) corresponds to reality. With the exception of Copenhagen, Denmark can take for about 10-12 days. I consider this to be acceptable.

- include some garrisons to stop the loss of VP I do not understand. A lot of places (from Warsaw to Tromso) you need to have Garrison. You need to allocate some units. You see it in the game ... I spent quite a lot of attention Wh sicher units in the game is a lot of small German units

- edit the mountain gun ??

- include the Allied forces planned to use in Norway Also I do not understand ... All British, Polish and French troops in Norway appear exactly in line with history. Reply to this a few posts above. There are missing some specific units?

- give airdroppable seamines to both sides as Germany as well as Britain used those You should be intensely interested in history. Britain in April 1940 had no airborne units ...

Two small French airborne troops were deployed during this period in Africa.

- if you add all ships of the Royal Navy, you should add all planes for Germany. Wrote several times that I have not add any British ships. Entire German Air Force will appear on the map in the period prior to 10 May 1940.

- you should somehow force the player to transport british forces an supplies to France, creating jobs for all those Brit destroyers. Don´t forget, there was a landwar on the continent and France and Britain were struggling to reinforce. Yes, the mod is built on this basis. I really need massive traffic from Canada and the USA to Europe. It is necessary to start 1st Canadian Division. In this brief scenario, it is not significant, the main scenario it shows in their entirety.

- you should remove all resources from Britian, so there have to be convoys from Canada to be escorted Completely all sources should not be removed from Britain. Later there will a large number of aircraft and ground troops and supplies consumption is huge .... It is a rigorous testing and repair.

- There were enormous minefields in the Northsea at that time, which had to be maintained and used up forces from both sides, too. You're right, but I still do not get ....

- edit ships to give them the right radar for the timeline (Brits no radar, Germans Seetakt) This is partly done. I tried to bring the ship into a state RN 1940. But there may be some mistakes.

Be carefull, not all radar that is listed for 1940 was there in April. You might even have all the RN ships right, but German radar (which was better than the British at that time) is totally missing.In 1941 some(?) British BBs had radar. I am not so sure about May 1940.

- remove all Danish troops from the scenario including all minefields. As land units move slow, it is then possible to use the Danish bases in about 10 days, which is almost in line with real life No. The Danish army had existed, and certainly it will not delete. Axis player must defeat her. Move the German troops (largely on foot and horse-drawn vehicles) corresponds to reality. With the exception of Copenhagen, Denmark can take for about 10-12 days. I consider this to be acceptable.

Do you think, that Germany would have fought 12 days with Denmark? The Wehrmacht finished Poland in 4 weeks and France in 6.The Netherlands and Belgium, both of a comparable size but much more difficult terrain lasted about one week. Peksy Denmark would be finished much faster. That was the reason Denmark stopped fighting immediately. Don´t you think, that a PzDivision would be transfered to Denmark in case of resistance? You don´t give this possibility to the German player as the reinforcement is hardcoded.

- include some garrisons to stop the loss of VP I do not understand. A lot of places (from Warsaw to Tromso) you need to have Garrison. You need to allocate some units. You see it in the game ... I spent quite a lot of attention Wh sicher units in the game is a lot of small German units

When you start this scenario, each player looses VP on base of to small garrison forces in some bases. As neither player has those forces in the beginning (they might come later), one gets this unnecessary message each turn. I am quite sure, that Germany HAD forces in Warsaw and Kattowice at this time of the war! Additionally you put garrison needs on bases which were German towns with German population,eg Danzig.

- edit the mountain gun ?? mountain gun 1213 (1231?)has a range of 0 should be 10. You just missed the number

- include the Allied forces planned to use in Norway Also I do not understand ... All British, Polish and French troops in Norway appear exactly in line with history. Reply to this a few posts above. There are missing some specific units?

The Allied planned to land 4 divisions in Norway and to mine Norwegian waters. The Germans were only some hours faster than the Brits to land forces. Search for Operation Wilfried and Plan R4 just to get an idea. This might be interessting alternative history scenarios though.

Why do British French or Polish units appear in Norway? Shouldn´t they start in London and then be transferred by ship? The same is true for German forces in Norway

- give airdroppable seamines to both sides as Germany as well as Britain used those You should be intensely interested in history. Britain in April 1940 had no airborne units ...

ähm, mines are no airborne troops.

- if you add all ships of the Royal Navy, you should add all planes for Germany. Wrote several times that I have not add any British ships. Entire German Air Force will appear on the map in the period prior to 10 May 1940. Now, that is the point: German Luftwaffe and landunits will be put in the scenario one after the other, the RN is represented from the very beginning. IRL there were about 144 German divisions and about 4000 German planes from the beginning of Weserübung till the end. Additionally the allied forces will of course come lateron.

You added all and every ship, that belonged to the British seazone commands. That does not mean, that those ships were all in harbour at that time. Many were on patrol, some had to be repaired etc. Don´t get me wrong, the RN was much much stronger than the KM, no question here, but the way the ships are given to the Allies they are even more powerful as they have nothing different to do as to kill German invasions

- There were enormous minefields in the Northsea at that time, which had to be maintained and used up forces from both sides, too. You're right, but I still do not get .... As those minefields had to be guarded and maintained, you should give large amounts of mines to the Allies as well as the Germans. I have lerned, that it is impossible to edit minefields in a mod, therefore the nations should be given the ressources to lay this minefields in larger scenarios.

Good choice on the artwork!!! Big B did a fabulous job with the RN's capital ships, etc.!!! I've always loved what he did with the Ark Royal (of course I'm partial to camo'ed ships)!! You can find his artwork here: https://sites.google.com/site/bigbsshipyard/home

@WDolson: True, I suppose in the end it was all about economics when it came to winning. We won the war relatively quickly and maybe it would have taken longer had we stopped periodically to retool. I wonder what things would have been like had the Germans not continually retooled their industry? What if they had stayed with the PZIII the whole way through as their primary battle tank? In the end I suppose it didn't make a difference one way or the other. They would have lost either way.

The Germans had the Panzer IV from the start of the war. It was still a front line tank right up to the end of the war, though it was getting very obsolete vs Russian armor. What drove everything in tank development was the arms race on the Eastern front. German mid-war armor was adequate against the western powers right up to the end of the war. Even Lee/Grants were superior to Japanese armor right up to the end of the war.

If the Germans had standardized on the Panzer IV, the war in the Eastern Front may have been over earlier than history. On the other hand if they had more total tanks it might have gone on longer. It's a good "what if" question.