Thanks RR. I really am not interested in the mini-Torii, as I'm in love with EL34 type tubes, and I used to drive myself insane tube-rolling and don't want to be tempted to go down that route again.

I love the Mark II so much, it really embodies what I want in an amplifier, and I want to go for the Mark III as I think the improvements will be audible and meaningful, and then I'll stop. (Might have to not visit this site to do that, and I'm tempted!)

Well, you're right. . . I do enjoy mine. Both of mine actually, which are predominantly Decware. And both are used for video playback as well (and both are wonderful, especially with the excellent audio output of Blu-Ray audio). It's a bit insane because for months I've been telling myself to spend less, and not really listening to that sound advice from a reliable source. Money keeps going out and I'm not working and bringing lots in. But then again, I'm at the end zone of a period of time when I have been able to build a great audio system or two and collect some great guitars and basses and amplifiers for those, and this period will flavor favoribly my coming years. I've also been so blessed to have the time to really sit down and enjoy my systems and my instruments, and to have found a mate who is also a severe music addict.

This will probably be my final big purchase for a while, and it's undeniably a sane choice. I could have waited for the Decware DAC options, but frankly I'm very happy with my Sony source, that's one sweet under-priced machine, and I imagine I will be until I am back in the rat race bringing in money that I can splurge with again.

I know what you mean Lon, about waiting. I ordered my ERR's on December 5, so hopefully I will see them in the next 2 weeks or so...

I have been completely blown away by my Mk2, even with a crappy Onkyo CD, 20 year old Infinity bookshelf speakers and 24GA speaker wire! It's as if I am hearing my CD collection for the first time, again.

The only issue that I have had is that the input tube on the left/front does not glow as brightly as the one on the right/front. I am not sure if this is affecting the sound or not?

IF the sound seems unbalanced from channel to channel, then it may be a factor of course. If not (and if mono recordings sound pretty centered) it may mean nothing at all, it's nothing to worry about. I've encountered that before, sometimes it's just the angle you're viewing them from, sometimes it's just the tubes themselves, but if Steve sent them to you he tested them, matched them closely enough, and you should have nothing to worry about.

Hope you get the ERRs soon. Bob told me that mine are closer to coming up in the cue too. I recently put my RL2s into my bedroom system and Anadina and I are really enjoying those there, they sound great in that little room, much better than in the slightly larger bedroom I used to use as a listening room! Or maybe it's because they're being driven by the Integrated, not my Monoblocks as before. Who knows! I just enjoy!

No sound degradation to my ears, in fact, it sounds wonderful! I believe that you ordered your ERR's before I did, so I will be anxious to hear what you think of them...

I have emailed Steve a couple of times with this question, but, I have not heard back from him, perhaps you know the answer: Does the new ZCD200i accommodate any and all Ipods? I have a Nano, and Patty has an older version. I just want to be sure.

Thanks for that - that's good news on the ZCD! I will have to wait on the purchase for now, but, it sounds like just the ticket when my cash reserves are replenished. Patty and I had a miserable Christmas with our beloved 13 year old german shepherd being diagnosed with kidney failure on Christmas eve. After 4 days in an emergency vet hospital and $4K later, we had to put her to sleep. The Torii Mk2 was the only positive aspect of the entire holiday period.

nsj - not to distract from the forum topic, but just wanted to let you know how sorry I am to hear about your german shepard. I had to put down my 14 year old siberian husky two years ago after she suffered a seizure. Came on suddenly and took its toll on her quickly. Now I have two siberians I got out of a siberian rescue center and they lay at my feet every nite while I listen to my Torri MK II.

Sorry to hear about your Shepherd. I know how pets can get deep into your heart and mind. I lost a cat of 18 years a year and a half ago, I'm just glad I had her the previous 8 months, the period after my wife died. She went quickly, and without too much misery that I could tell, her kidneys just failed her. She was a graceful old lady and a wonderful friend.

People are wonderful, but other mammals can win our hearts too. And they don't pollute!

Just yesterday I signed up for a new program at work - volunteer work at the local Humane Society. Our company (Best Buy) awards any "non-profit organization" a thousand bucks for each employee who donates forty total hours of service. They have loads of BS things they want us to sign up for, but the Humane Society seemed to fit me just fine. I will be scooping "treasure," mopping and hosing everything in sight, painting everything that is not barking, meowing or chirping and building new cages next week, along with walking the inmates in an outside area.

My daughter will accompany me as well. I will reach forty hours before the month is out and BB will donate to them, generously. There are five others who have also agreed to volunteer and each one who reaches forty hours of service will earn a thousand more dollars worth of donations to the charitable organization from our company.

The point is that the company wants to make everyone look to them for what they sell, but they do give up the money as we donate our own time to our respective communities. I suppose there is some self serving capitalism to this arrangement, but I get to handle beautiful, neglected and forgotten animals, make things better for the next ones who are rescued and my company has to pay for the privilege of claiming responsibility for my community service.

Thanks, we are very pleased with her. Let's face it cats (Mr. PC) are a lot easier to take care of. I had a Maine Coon cat at one point. BLFST, I hope that your Huskies are doing well. What kind of a dog is that Riviera? Dirtdawg, I admire your dedication - that's great!

I am very interested in your interpretation of what pleasures your new baby sets into your system. (honestly, I have some trouble resolving what I have heard from the blu-ray players I have tried. My older Sony things sound way better than any newish stuff I have brought home. I have never heard yours, though. Enough said on that.)

I'm listening to some incredible sound from my Sony ES Blu-Ray player right now on a Steven Wilson DVD-A, Insurgentes. I have tried out two other Blu-Ray players in this system (another Sony and a Panasonic) and this former flagship is just awesome. Not as good on redbook as my SCD-XA5400ES player, but incredible on dvd and Blu-Ray two channel audio. Just amazes me.

Believe me DD, I'll give my impressions of the new amps. And I don't mind people talking about their pets. As my late wife Helen would say "Pets are people too!"

I bought (it seemed the best one in the showroom at the time) BD-S1065BL Yamaha, then decided to keep it for my movie system.

I have previewed a Pioneer BDP-V6000, a Pioneer BDP-95FD, Pioneer BDP-320, Pioneer BDP-23FD (I thought for a while that Pioneer was close to the best brand, I was stuck on this brand. I bought several things from them but that big fat-bottom, heavy-assed Yamaha blows them all away).

I also tried out a Denon A1UDCI (which was amazingly feature-loaded, our most expensive player, but hardly any better than any other, soundwise) and a Denon DVD-3800BDCI (probably second best sounding at twice the price).

I do not have access to any of the better than average Sony efforts at my store, so I can hardly comment on their more modern players, as yet, but of those I do have available to me, the Yamaha is much more analog sounding, compared to the others.

I still have an older Sony redbook player from teh eighties that sounds better than all of them on just about all my average discs (the point). This annoys the hell out of me about digi! (I fully expect it to break some day and I will again return to the market to replace something "I never wanted in the first place" - Lol) My oldest and most primitive player works best.

I had to ask my friend David what the model was, he says Panasonic DMP-BD55. It sounded okay but we both felt there was more depth to the sound of the Sony BDP-S2000ES.

The DEC 685 was the first Sony disc player I ever had and it impressed me. I decided to try Sony for a Blu-Ray player and went with the BDP-S2000ES after doing some instore comparisons with Sony, Pioneer and Panasonic. Sonys impressed me more and ofdered the then flagship. I've been nothing but happy with it. When I was disappointed in the ZCD and the NAD universal player I bought didn't really excite me on redbook I tried the Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD player and that has been the best cd and SACD source I've ever had. Has an interesting design, capacitorless outpout, nice layout and transport. It keeps sounding better and better month by month. So my Sony excitement is fairly recent, but I'm very impressed. Bad sound and experience by a friend with Yamaha players and receivers has had me sidestep those.

There are lots of good options out there, it's a great world we live in. I'm really happy with these choices.

Right out of the box I must say that this amp sounded more "there" than any other new Decware amp I've received. Maybe it had more hours on it before shipping, maybe it's the design. But wow, it impresses immediately.

I then transferred all the tubes I could from my Mark II to my Mark III so that I was listening to seasoned tubes for the most part. I continued to be impressed. There does seem to be a bit more power and authority to this amp than the Mark II. The IT Radials LOVE this amp. I managed to get about seven hours of use in last night and am starting on some long listening hours today, hopefully.

Steve's work and immense attention pay off. There seems to be even better bass, this early on too, than with the Mark II. It seems to be the determining difference here, though there's also a bit more depth and a bit bigger sound altogether, which would follow from a fuller bass sound. Yet what I loved so much about the Mark II is also there: how it handles every detail, large or small, putting the sound right where it should be, just as it should be. I know that this amp will just get better and better as it seasons. Steve's brainwork and his intuitive approach to improving his designs are very apparent in all the models of the Torii. This edition is stunning in sound and looks. A winner! I can't imagine any fan of the Decware amps who would be disappointed. No, this is not a single-ended triode amp. But it sure as hell sounds like one down to the bone!

Very happy that I managed to swing this. The Mark II sounds fantastic in my bedroom system.

Congradulations on receipt of your MKIII Lon! Even though you give it a resounding thumbs up this early, I am afraid that I am just going to have to be content with the MKII that I currently have. Not enough funds for everything that I would like to enjoy LOL.

Yes I so feel like a bad mofo with this amp and these speakers. I get such great sound.

And Bill, I totally understand. I really shouldn't have spent the money. But I just got the idea in my head and there is money in the bank still, just barely. The idea of having a Mark III in the living room and the Mark II in the bedroom just took hold of me. .. and now it's a reality.

So far I use the "British" bias on my MkIII. Plenty of warmth, speed and push. Mine took a good 7-9 days of 5 hour cycling to "bloom." But the bias thing...I much preferred the "warm" bias on the Integrated I had, but the MkIII pushes my MG944's pretty hard, and has to me, considerably more low mid and bass to its sound, so generally the warm bias is too much.

I like the power and many of the characteristics of the Torii sound, but, at least with my speakers and setup, I think I would prefer a just slightly less slam/push, low mids and bass. It is soooo fast and powerful it can sometimes seem just a little "amplified" sounding, though I probably have less than 70 hours on it. When there is a lot of bass material on the recording, I find the lows, though tight and clean at this point, they can mask the mids a bit too much for my taste. It can also get a little unnerving to have the low bass sending vibes through room and body on such a regular basis! This thing must go most of the way down, and the 944's apparently use a lot of the -30 Hz stuff with this amp.

I am hyper sensitive though because at first I was having a nasty thing going on with big bass stuff, and messing around to solve it I got cotton ear! Then, when I started looking at the speakers themselves, I was hearing the low mid/bass muddle with my ear right at the drivers! So I damped the plastic driver ring with some marigo dots and this helped. Then it occurred to me that the speakers were made in the humid NC mountains, and I live in the high desert, so checked out the driver screws....duh! all but one on the mid/bass drivers needed about a 1/5 turn to make them snug. This did a whole lot to solve my problems!!! but for a balance across my CD collection, I still would prefer just a bit less low end in the mix and am now playing a lot with tubes.

I don't seem to have any obvious room resonances, comb filtering or the like, no boom or buzz, no particularly hot or cool bass areas...the frequency response sounds pretty even in most parts of the room. So though I have a less than perfect room, and would likely benefit from more treatment I would prefer not having to go there! Also, I am inclined to think this is a lot to do with the amp's signature and my personal taste.

This is also obviously to do with synergy of gear, tubes, etc. my better CD player (Rega Apollo) reveals everything more than my modded Oppo, and Decware IC's likewise present everything more than less revealing IC's. And my favorite input tubes are the same. I was using 70's cryo'd 6N23P's from cryoset, as they are incredibly detailed bottom to top. Amazingly tight bass and high extension. So all this can be toned down with less revealing gear/tubes, but the sacrifice!

I have tried OB3 and OD3's for the voltage regulators, but in the end, though the bass is a bit stronger with the stock OA3, so is everything else, and I prefer how those regulators push the tubes. The stock 5U4G's I love for their sweet, open midrange, and the bottom goes way down, but can be a little inarticulate, so I tried cryo'd JJ 5AR4's. They tightened the whole sound...but I lost a bit of that sweet midrange. So now I have Valvo 274B's that are sort of in between, tighter on the bass and mids, but still having a decent liquidity. And I put in some NOS Haltron ECC88's in the input stage...This combination works pretty well, the Haltron 6692's sounding quite good but a little softer/less edgy than the 6N23P's.

Ah the quest! What I would love, is to get this thing toned down just enough to where on thinner recordings I could use the warm bias setting...and on most, use the British bias with liquid detail and tight, balanced low mid/bass (not even bordering on unnerving or fatiguing). I am close, but not there. I have some Styx ordered, and they presumably will help over my Cat-5 home-mades.

Long story short....what tubes are you liking? I seem to recall from your posts your using 6N2P's in your MkII and that you thought the tungsol El34's (are they 34B's) were pretty comparable to the stock Winged C EL34's with perhaps a bit less low-mids??? This could work for me at this point. Any thoughts?

I seem to have a different room situation. My room has sucked the bass and lower midrange out of any amp I have used: Select, Integrated, SE84, B&O, Proton, EICO. I was using N2Ps in the Mark II because these gave a mid and low bass boost, but it was giving me a situation similar to yours that was lush and dark and not sparkling. If I went for the sparkle it was too bright and thin. I went back to 6N1Ps, the same that Steve supplies, but cryo'd, and found the right speaker placement to get a good tonal balance. I also used Winged Cs primarily; the Tungsols were just a bit too slow and dark sounding overall, dimming the sparkle a bit too much. I used new reissue Mullards that were cryo'd to great result in the Integrated, but I haven't yet bought a matched quad for the Toriis. That may be just the ticket, hard to say. So right now I'm using in the Mark III: cryo'd 6N1Ps, Winged Cs, the stock rectifiers with the exception of a pair of RCA 5U4Gs (clearly better than the Ruby, mellower, warmer). And I'm surprised that I'm using the British bias setting.

There is something distinctly and decidedly different I think on the bass with the Mark III, possibly deeper and quicker, seemingly to me fuller. I think this is either a result of the design changes or a further improvement. I like it, but ymmv as I felt bass needed fleshing out in my system. I'll be interested to hear the amp once it's broken in and seasoned. . . .

This is good information. Thanks. It gives me more ways to think about it. Could be my room is more a problem than I thought, and the Integrated just didn't have enough bass to show it. Also, I suspect the radials might respond differently to the MkIII than the MG's. Hmmm.....Maybe I should try switching back to the 6N1P's for a while. I think I recall that they were nice and warm, and that the softer presentation extended into the bottom in my setup... pretty deep, but maybe a little mushy. Do you recall what differences you heard between the cryos and the stock ones?

Well, I felt that the Mark II and the IT Radials were an excellent fit, but there's something even more fitting to the match between the Mark III and the IT Radials.

It's really going to be interesting to arrive at the post "break in" sound!

If you want to try different tubes, the Mullards may be very interesting in comparison to the Winged Cs. They were a better replacement in the Integrated than the TungSols. Eventually I'll try them in the Mark III but I may have to get a job first! :)

Wow, we are texting here. I edited my first response adding a question about 6N1P's and came back to find you had gotten back. I am inclined to check out the cryo'd mullards repos. How do recall them sounding in comparison with the Winged C's?

As regards the 6N1Ps, I've had about four pairs that I've used for the last few years and really don't remember the differences between cryo'd and non-cryo'd.

I recall that the Mullard tubes took quite some time to "bloom" but when they did, they were a bit more romantic than the Winged Cs, a touch more warmth. (Karl had a similar positive experience in his Dynaco I believe.) This was using the Mullards in the Integrated, which as you know may not translate to the same thing in the Torii. I remember in one of my first experiences in tube-rolling that I had a set of Military Sovtek EL84s that clearly sounded better than the non-military version in my EICO push-pull integrated amp. The very opposite was true in my SE84!

I think you will really enjoy the Styx when they break in. I can't really think of using another speaker cable now. They alone may get you just the sound you want, they tighten up and tidy up all the frequencies.

I have to shut down the stereo soon and get ready for a good friend's birthday dinner. For a number or reasons, including how much fun I'm having listening to an Andy Bey cd right now, I don't want to go!

I tried the 6N1P's for while this evening and like them, but find them just a little soft after getting used to the cryo'd 6N23P-EV's (extremely articulate, extended and detailed) and my current favorite, the Haltron 6922's that seem somewhere between...warm but articulate with a tight, but musical bass.

It would be hard to beat the Winged C's, but the Mullards sound worth checking out. So far, though the Integrated and MkIII sound different, they carry so much of the family resemblance and design/build, I have found tubes to move between them pretty well. But it does all come down to the details the amp's signature brings out and there will be no way to know about the Mullards without a try.

It is tube changes in part, but my amp just reached another level. Smoother and more liquid!!! What a pleasure.

I really do look forward to the Styx! Waiting for more cable to come in. Thanks for your thoughts.

I guess I like "a little soft" because for me and my system the 6N1Ps are just right so far!

I drove myself mad tube-rolling some years ago and I'm less and less inclined to roll tubes. The final straw for me was when I tried multiple tubes in the ZCD trying to love that player and no tube accomplished that. Then I bought my Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD player, not a tube in sight, and I love it! I'm learning with the amps to not stray too far from Steve's original tube sets. . . they work pretty well with the Radial speaker series which is my bread and butter. . . .

Good points Lon. There is the taste thing, and our different physical makeups, but I suspect my problems are mainly room/system synergy and not the amp. When I think of the complexity of what makes up a room/system it makes me feel a little sick though.

So I hear you on the dilemma of to tube roll or not. Veering too far from the tubes Steve used for development could be somewhat futile. It is fun though. And I did not have any problems with the Integrated except that I wanted a little more power. But then that is the very thing that I'm dealing with now...on top of the additional bass extension from the Torii, the power and how it drives the MG944's is clearly part of it. Everything is just that much closer to the edge. At the same time, power, speed and extension are big parts of what makes the amp sound so good! If only Steve had devised a little bass cut pot like the treble pots, my tastes would likely be satisfied.

His meticulous design and development work, and good ears open the door to that truly satisfying sound, and those of us who love his sound trust that he will put us way close, making struggling with the last few percent worth it. Why else would you have put so much energy into the ZCD tweaking? I really hope this amp is not for me like the ZCD was for you, but it is possible dammit. Thanks for your thoughts. They are definitely helpful! And....like you suggested, the Styx may just do it.

I need to talk with Steve about those 26 things...

By the way, on tube roll #1042, I just put in the 6N1P's with a set of cryo'd Sovtek GZ34 Mullard copies and it sounds pretty amazing! I am blown away at how powerfully the rectifiers effect the sound of this amp!