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Tuesday, January 29, 2013

Lifetime learner

I sometimes post favorite comments (sometimes not, if it is hard to reduce it to a quotable quote), but there were two in particular that I have been thinking about recently. One was from a reader who said that he observes his own behavior in order to interpret his emotions. I found that to be very interesting, and very true of my life too. When I was in secondary school I got very/acutely sick for a while. To me life felt normal, apart from dealing with pain and other physical symptoms of being sick, but after about two weeks my friends all stopped talking to me. I got better, but they still stayed away. I didn't know what to make of it. Since then I have realized that when I am sick or otherwise not feeling well, I can be very mean, short-tempered, even irrational without knowing I am doing it. Now when people start acting offended around me or I otherwise struggle to maintain healthy interpersonal relationships, I often (correctly) assume that I am sick. The same applies for a lot of my other "feelings," particularly negative ones. Frequently I am unaware of them until I find myself engaging in some irrational behavior or another (always my red flag). Only then do I stop what I am doing and take time to reassess what's really going on in my world.

Another commenter (aspie?) remarked on the definition of love, saying that he believed love is basically gratitude. Coming from an aspie, I thought this was hilarious because I don't think any neurotypical would describe love that way. It is, however, exactly the sort of thing that someone would say who has never experienced love the way a neurotypical would. Yes, little aspie, to the sociopath as well love feels a lot like gratitude and loyalty.

125 comments:

I said if I had to put it in one word, that is the word that I would use. Love or any emotion or even any word is far more "complex" than any one word can fully describe, and even ten thousand words can not really do it. It is a lot more than just gratitude, and even the word to me implies a lot more than just having a feeling.

No need to get defensive, aspie. Actually an attack is in order in this case.

ME has really stepped out of her normal way of addressing. When did you hear last time it was this 'little' aspie demeaning? She is consistent in that she said she was sick and now sheis bitchy and thinks she kows neurotypical better than you.

Most neurotypicals would agree that love is grace, and most sociopaths would disagree with that. Those 'big' sociopaths, I should say, lol.

People who make it a point to write down ten things they are graceful about everyday for a month are known to get out of their depression, because they fill themselves with love and connection this way.

This was a couple years ago Sceli. I was a little surprised at the time that ME mentioned me directly... I got a "shout out" .. I think I may have "ruffled" ME's feathers a little bit... perhaps through a way of relating. Or maybe he just wanted to play a bit. But, honestly, I never took offense. I was just trying to explain myself better. I thought ME was alright.

I also just noticed that M.E. has started calling his superpowers a sickness. What's wrong with you, man? You have special talents. You're super awesome, with lots of power, you're not sick and irrational.

I agree the word grateful is expansive. It suggests so many things to me.... like humility, no strings attached, an appreciation for it's existence however brief or long and a recognition that it can be gone like that... no owning, no manipulation, it sounds loving. Grateful for what? For a lot.

love is so broad because it is relative to each person. love means something different to everyone. i am not sure i have ever truly loved anyone. i know i need people for certain things and i will be affectionate and caring because that is what keeps them around me and sometimes it's a struggle to keep up with it. recently, i have wondered what it would be like to be truly in love... you know have that seemingly blissful feeling. you have seen those people. i once was told if you take action that your emotions adapt to whatever it is that you are doing but i have never been able to overcome the boredom. i guess the emotions never came. it's like going to a concert to see your favorite band. you suffer through listening to all the other bands trying to enjoy yourself waiting for your favorite group to get on the stage and they just never take the mic yet for some reason you don't ever leave either... every minute expecting something more ...something different but it never changes. the only way to get what you need is to be the very definition of insane. it is exhausting when i think about all the work i do to keep my head above the crowd. it is tiresome..... have you ever felt like just letting every facade go? i have ... trouble is i can't stop or maybe i don't want to... i don't know. maybe i don't want to let go more than i want to but if i could would i be able to be able to experience what everyone else gets too... like love? that blissful rose covered happiness... it actually is kind of ridiculous when i think about it. damn... being reflective... i think i am going to go.... do ... something now.

have you ever felt like just letting every facade go? i have ... trouble is i can't stop or maybe i don't want to... i don't know. maybe i don't want to let go more than i want to but if i could would i be able to be able to experience what everyone else gets too... like love? that blissful rose covered happiness... it actually is kind of ridiculous when i think about it.

not at all. but i think the melting, butterflies in your stomach, letting go kind of love is just love sickness, and it can be a bitch.

the blissful rose covered happiness love is the real thing, when you’re still together holding hands at eighty.

Love encompasses both loyalty and gratitude, but it is much more than a mere feeling... Love is a choice, a mindset which presides over one's actions, in which one deliberately considers the best interests of another person and behaves accordingly. True love is always sacrificial, but it doesn't always have to *feel* like much.

Sometimes acting in someone's best interests simply does not require that you set their needs above your own. That said, I believe that in its purest form, love is sacrificial, in that it involves giving of oneself for the benefit of another.

Yes, it is. A mother gives of her precious vitality in order to birth and raise her children. A wife dedicates herself to one man and forsakes all others in a monogamous, faithful marriage. A child willingly takes a beating in order to protect a younger sibling. To sacrifice is to give of oneself for the sake of another. The deepest manifestations of love are sacrificial.

What makes you think animals are incapable of sacrificial love? I have heard of mother cats braving burning buildings in order to save their kittens. Why do you think "love" *necessarily* precludes instinctive behaviour? Are certain types of love not profoundly instinctive? Why should "love" and "instinct" be mutually exclusive, as opposed to complementary?

You are being ridiculously simplistic. A mother's love for her child is instinctive, but it runs much deeper than that.

There are many different kinds of love. Perhaps you are referring to "agapao", which represents divine, unconditional, self-sacrificing, active, volitional, and thoughtful love. The Bible gives an excellent definition of this type of love:

"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres." 1 Corinthians 13:4-7

Not many people are capable of sustaining that kind of love for any length of time. When I refer to love in its purest form, this is what I am referring to, and it certainly encompasses the notion of self-sacrifice. I don't think I am able to love anyone in this manner all the time- or perhaps ever- if I am brutally honest with myself. Interestingly, there is no mention of emotion in this passage, only of willful acts and attitudes.

But there are other kinds of love: "phileo", or brotherly love, and "eros", which refers to intimate or romantic love. Love is not the black and white construct you imagine it to be, if your definition by necessity precludes instinct, and is restricted to one variety.

I had some thoughts from reading the Forum and just being here for awhile. I gave up on life before I came here because I did not know how to navigate it. Everything hurt. I was well liked because I gave up my own core, my own needs etc and gave to people. I had been so programmed this way that I did not know I was doing it. One day, I just stopped. I figured I would rather have no friends than have to do this charade. Part of my involvement in SW is to learn how to navigate with my core, not by throwing it away and trying to please people.That is just the introduction to what I wanted to say about observing people on here, as I try to learn to navigate my own life.

What brought me to thinking about this was UKan saying how he admired Ellicit, if I got that right~Ellicit has many qualities I admire. One main one is that she thinks for herself. She is not led by group think like Green Eyes is, for example. One reason I gave up on life was I thought I had to be a cookie cutter person. I would rather be a hermit, but I did not know how to have the middle ground. You need the middle ground. You have to conform to social norms to have relationships. However, you have to retain your core or relationships are pure drudgery.

One thing about SW is that people will not BS you. This is one of the most unique things about it. If you lost your compass and go to a shrink, how do you know this person is not BSing you or is just mental, himself(to put it simply) I have a friend who is getting worse and worse by going to the top shrink, in the town in which I live. This guy is a doctor, so has achieved a lot in his life. This shrink is, literally, ruining this guy.

SW is a kind of highway with all sorts of cars coming at you. UKan is a Mac truck.

Zoe is another person who thinks for herself and who has amazing insights. Rich is a ball of delight. I learn from everyone on here, even if it is just to ignore ~

Oh, the other thing I learned was how Virus came on here ASKING for approval, rather than just taking his place. You can never ask a group to accept you. You just kind of worm your way in. If you ask, you will be rejected.

It seems to me like you have been thinking alot/ having some revelations lately....... Good for you! Please share more, if you can......

I realize I need to/should work on human relationships a little more after reading what you just typed...... I literally have no freinds right now, just acquantences. Ever since I started gping to the methadone clinic I dropped my old freinds and never got new ones......

Sometimes though, it seems like its for the best........ I have been seeing the dar side of humanity in alot of the people I have tried to "befriend".

I was entirely happy. Perhaps we feel like that when we die and become a part of something entire, whether it is sun and air, or goodness and knowledge. At any rate, that is happiness: to be dissolved into something complete and great.--Willa Cather

I have no real knowledge of love, but If I had to I would describe it as gratitude as well. It's a way of showing that you are loyal to someone. A way of describing an attachment to them. It is something that can easily be forgotten or moved away from. People talk about "unconditional love" which is something I have no concept of. Why would you feel obligated to love someone (your family) just because you born into the same family? Love is earned; it doesn't matter if you're related or not.

I have a question. I try to understand narcs, but my problem is, when i combine every "well known" fact, i get a concept i can't understand.

So, maybe you could help me:

One "core fact" is, that the narc is too delusional and consumed with the love of itself, to feel emotions for other people. The word that disturbs me, is "delusional".Delusional, would also mean that the narc is incapable of knowing that he is a narc because his worldview is way to distorted to aknowledge that. Logically, that means that the delusion is destroyed, when the narc aknowledges he is one.Which would make it, in the end, possible to feel emotions for other persons. And this would kill every definitions of narcs i know, and also every i came up with.

Yeah, exact that was the point i meant, thought it would be clear, k it kinda is...you got it.I think a extreme distortion is the same as a delusion, maybe not per definition, but in the way it affects a person, especially combined with selfcenterednes.

That is a great question, MyMind. I think people throw around the word "narcissist" when they should say NPD or Malignant Narcissism. A person can have Narcissistic traits and not have NPD. This person can admit his faults and admit that he has Narc. traits.

The true NPD or Mal Narc does not KNOW he has a mask of perfection. He has little core self, so the way he feels good in life is to get others to validate him. This person would be deluded, as he does not know the mechanisms of what he is doing i.e he has little to no self awareness of he complex mental and emotional twists which run him.

Hey M.E., i love your blog to death, but this "Vegitopath" shit is wearing on my fucking nerves and probably most everyone elses too. When trying to comment and read comments, it is exceedingly tiresome to scroll through all this blank shit. can you please just delete all the vegitopath shit? it would make everyones' visit to your site 10x more enjoyable.

A long time ago(before I went numb) I felt solid. Solid was knowing that I am a jerk, but everyone is. I am selfish as a baby with a diaper pin stuck in it's ass, but everyone else is. Most importantly, I am going to die and everyone else is. So, it is road to nowhere, punctuated with some love, some lust, some goodness and some evil. I suppose the fun to be had is in defying the conventions, to which most people cling. Be bizarre and laugh your ass off. That is a very good time and it is free.

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Of course, my default is still to intuitively analyze every outcome and situation and achieve the best result, but it's more interesting to let people remain a variable and go in their own direction, rather than nudging them in the direction I prefer. Interacting with people WITHOUT trying to control them is a new paradigm for me.