If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Trade-talk roundup

Trade-talk roundup: What we know

ESPN.com

What's the latest trade intel? Our reporters are on the case. We'll be updating this file all through Thursday's 3 p.m. ET trade deadline. Refresh and follow along with us.
--------------------------
Bookmark this link for ESPN'S latest updates.

J.A. Adande: With rampant speculation that Miami is trying to pry Amare Stoudemire from the Phoenix Suns before the Cleveland Cavaliers can get him, here are two possible scenarios.
According to an NBA source, the Heat are offering Daequan Cook, Quentin Richardson, Dorell Wright, Mario Chalmers and draft picks to the Suns. Cook is the only player among that group who is under contract for next season (Chalmers has a team option for $847,000). It is believed that the Suns would rather have a package from Cleveland that would include Zydrunas Ilgauskas, J.J. Hickson and a draft pick, with the young Hickson as the most appealing part of the package.
Another league source said the Suns would like to attach Jason Richardson to a Stoudemire trade, which would relieve Phoenix from having to pay Richardson's $14 million salary next season. The combined $29 million of outgoing salary from Stoudemire and Richardson this season would be too difficult for Cleveland to match to make a trade work under the salary-cap guidelines. Miami, however, could add the $23 million expiring salary of Jermaine O'Neal to the previously mentioned offer and come within the 25 percent range of matching salaries. I have yet to hear that the Heat are willing to do so, I am merely mentioning the possibility.
That would have obvious appeal to the Suns, allowing them to escape from luxury-tax land next season and positioning them to go after a major free agent this summer.
The Suns would be looking at nine players under contract for a total of about $33 million next season: Steve Nash ($10.3 million), Leandro Barbosa ($7.1 million), Grant Hill ($3.3 million player option), Channing Frye ($2 million player option), Goran Dragic ($2 million), Earl Clark ($1.9 million), Robin Lopez ($1.9 million), Jared Dudley ($2.2 million) and Cook ($2.2 million).
The Heat would be stuck with Richardson's contract and could potentially have Stoudemire opt out and leave them as a free agent. But they would also have Stoudemire's Larry Bird rights, enabling them to offer a longer and more lucrative contract than any other team. And they would have demonstrated to Dwyane Wade that they would do whatever it takes to bring another All-Star to play alongside him.

POSTED: Feb. 16 -- 6:02 p.m. ET

Chad Ford: The Knicks have had discussions with both the Rockets and Bulls about deals that would bring Tracy McGrady and Tyrus Thomas, respectively, to New York.
However, as of Tuesday afternoon, the Knicks say they aren't sure where they stand with either team.
McGrady's agent, Arn Tellem, initiated talks with the Knicks and has been trying to make a deal happen, according to a source close to the process. The Knicks believe McGrady still can play and hope he can both lead them to a playoff berth and help persuade LeBron James to come to New York in the summer. Even if McGrady can do neither, he would allow the Knicks to get further under the cap this summer if the deal included Jared Jeffries.
But the Rockets' asking price is steep if they have to take back Jeffries and the $6.6 million remaining on his contract next season.
The same source said the Rockets want expiring contracts, 2009 first-round pick Jordan Hill and future first-rounders from New York to make it happen. That's too rich for the Knicks' blood. Although they'd love to clear Jeffries' contract off the books, it'd be too big of a risk. If the Knicks didn't land a marquee free agent or two in the summer, they'd have given away up to three high draft picks for nothing.
If the Rockets drop the request for the future 2012 first-rounder, the Knicks might be game for a deal that would send Larry Hughes, Jeffries and Hill to Houston for McGrady. Still, a source close to the process believes the Rockets may have better options for McGrady if the Knicks aren't willing to meet their demands.
Meanwhile, New York also has initiated discussions with the Bulls about a Thomas swap. The Knicks are willing to offer Chicago Al Harrington for Thomas and Jerome James. But although Harrington would be a plus for the Bulls this season, Chicago has been hoping to get a future asset (preferably a first-round pick or a good player) in return for Thomas.

POSTED: Feb. 16 -- 4:31 p.m. ET

O'Neal

Marc Stein: Cleveland's interest in Antawn Jamison dates to last season and apparently has spawned some radio rumblings in the D.C. area about the Wizards and Cavs discussing a deal that would swap Jamison and Mike Miller for Shaquille O'Neal.
I've been encouraged by both teams to dispel that notion in the strongest possible terms. Both teams resoundingly shot down the idea when we checked with them. Got a flat "no" from one of the two teams and a louder "BIG no" from the other.
The Cavs still covet Jamison, but giving up Shaq to get him makes no sense, even if they do successfully strike a deal for Amare Stoudemire before Thursday's 3 p.m. ET deadline.
On top of the fact that the Cavs are very pleased with Shaq's first 50-plus games in town, they need him for potential down-the-road playoff matchups against Dwight Howard, Andrew Bynum, etc. Cleveland, remember, thinks defense first.

POSTED: Feb. 16 -- 3:51 p.m. ET

Jefferson

Chad Ford: The Wolves continue to rebuff teams looking into the availability of Al Jefferson.
A source close to the process told ESPN.com that the Wolves recently said no to a potential Luol Deng and Tyrus Thomas for Jefferson deal, telling the Bulls that they aren't going to move Jefferson by the trade deadline, which is consistent with what Wolves GM David Kahn has been saying for weeks. However, a Deng-and-Thomas deal was the most realistic trade scenario we've heard for Jefferson.
Jefferson was one of the first big names to get mentioned in trade deadline buzz when word came out that the Pacers had rebuffed an offer of Jefferson for Danny Granger. Since then, Kahn has been adamant that he's not trading any member of his young core by the trade deadline. Kahn has maintained he wants an entire season to evaluate the talent he has on the roster.

POSTED: Feb. 16 -- 3:34 p.m. ET

Kaman

Marc Stein: The Clippers fended off interest in newly minted All-Star center Chris Kaman before trading Marcus Camby to Portland on Monday.
Detroit needs a big man who can score and, according to sources close to the situation, recently followed up its interest in Utah's Carlos Boozer and Phoenix's Amare Stoudemire by trying to pry Kaman away from the Clips with a package headlined by Tayshaun Prince.
Don't forget that Kaman, besides ranking as one of the few players in the league averaging at least 20 points and nine rebounds this season, is a Michigan native.
Yet sources say the Clips made it clear that Kaman -- who has two seasons left on his contract after this one at a combined $23.5 million, compared to one more year left for Prince at $11.1 million -- was not available.
So with DeAndre Jordan in the Clips' center rotation as well, they decided to ship Camby to the Blazers for Travis Outlaw, Steve Blake and $1.5 million in cash, setting up Jordan as Kaman's new backup and leaving open the possibility that L.A. will be a free-agent factor this summer if it can ship out Al Thornton and/or Sebastian Telfair.

Re: Trade-talk roundup

Here is my best guess. Teams are actively talking with the Pacers but they are throwing in names like Hibbert, Rush and Price and Bird is not budging. My guess is that a desperate team that wants Murphy will make a better deal. My best guess is that it will come from a Western conference team like Sac. I think Cleveland will only make the trade if that is their last resort. To be honest I think Hickson would be the best that the Pacers can get and to me Hickson is better just from a contract standpoint and that is the main attraction. My first guess though is that the Pacers right now are all talk but no action will get done.

Re: Trade-talk roundup

POSTED: Feb. 16 -- 9:21 p.m. ET

McGrady

Chris Sheridan:The Houston Rockets and New York Knicks are "making progress" in their Tracy McGrady trade discussions, according to a source close to the talks, and Knicks president Donnie Walsh is expected to speak with owner Jim Dolan on Wednesday to discuss the parameters of the deals that have been discussed, and how best to proceed forward. Several sources say the main holdup to this point has been the Rockets insistence on asking for at least one future No. 1 pick as the price for taking on Jeffries, who is owed $6.9 next season. Dolan has always been amenable to throwing $3 million cash into the kitty to make a deal go through, but a decade of sacrificing first-round draft picks has left him hesitant to sign off on letting another one go (The Knicks owe their own 2010 pick to Utah). The Rockets are believed to be seeking the Knicks' 2012 first-round pick, along with the option to swap first-round picks in 2011, and there are unresolved issues regarding lottery protection on the draft picks. But the bottom line for New York is that trading Jeffries opens up nearly $7 million in additional cap space for next summer, giving the Knicks the flexibility to not only make a max offer to LeBron James, but also choose between retaining All-Star David Lee, or trying to use Lee in a sign-and-trade for Chris Bosh.
If the teams swap McGrady, Brian Cook and Joey Dorsey for Larry Hughes, Jeffries and Jordan, the Rockets would drop almost $2 million below the luxury tax threshold and would be eligible for a $4-plus million tax redistribution payment.
If Al Harrington was put in the trade instead of Hughes, and Cook was removed, the financial savings for Houston would be about the same. As things stand now, the Rockets are $2.7 over the tax threshold.

Re: Trade-talk roundup

POSTED: Feb. 16 -- 10:44 p.m. ET

Chris Sheridan: Marc Stein has a news story with more on the Knicks-Rockets-Bulls trade situation, to which we'll add this nugget: If Chicago is willing to deal the expiring contracts of Tyrus Thomas, Brad Miller and Jerome James for McGrady and Brian Cook, it would shave $2.75 off the Rockets' payroll and move them just barely below the luxury tax line. Here is how that deal looks in the ESPN NBA Trade Machine.

Create an ignore list. I know it may seem unneighborly. But you're here to talk about the Pacers, not argue with someone who's just looking for an argument. Most of the regular users on here make use (at least occasionally) of the "Ignore" feature. Just go to "Settings" -> "Edit Ignore List" and add the names.

Re: Trade-talk roundup

The New York Knicks are finalizing a deal to acquire Houston Rockets forward Tracy McGrady, an NBA source told SI.com.

The framework of the deal involves sending McGrady to New York for forward Jared Jeffries, guard Larry Hughes and forward Jordan Hill. The Knicks and Rockets have agreed to swap 2011 first round picks and the Knicks will send the Rockets their first round pick in 2012.

Re: Trade-talk roundup

Displeased with the way he has fit into their system, the San Antonio Spurs are attempting to trade forward Richard Jefferson just days before the trade deadline, multiple league sources have confirmed.

However, because of Jefferson's lack of production this season, as well as his $14.2 million salary, it does not seem likely the Spurs are going to find any takers.

"They're trying, but there may not be a market for his contract," one Eastern Conference executive told SI.com.

Jefferson has one year and $15.2 million remaining after this season.

The calls being placed by Spurs general manager R.C. Buford are a stark admittance that he made a mistake when trading Bruce Bowen, Kurt Thomas and Fabricio Oberto to the Milwaukee Bucks for Jefferson, envisioning him as yet another talented scoring option to complement Tim Duncan, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili.

Instead, the 29-year-old Jefferson is having the worst season since his rookie year, averaging 12.2 points, 3.6 rebounds and 2.1 assists as he has struggled to fit in with the Spurs' primary trio.

Perhaps even more intriguing is whether Buford's intentions with Jefferson is a sign that he thinks the Spurs in their current form cannot win a title. The Spurs are essentially tied with the Oklahoma City Thunder and the Phoenix Suns for the fifth seed in the Western Conference but have lost eight of their past 14 games

Re: Trade-talk roundup

POSTED: Feb. 17 -- 1:04 a.m. ET

Robinson

Chris Sheridan: There are reports in the New York Daily News and Boston Herald that the Knicks and Celtics are close to a deal that would send Nate Robinson to Boston. I have confirmed that the teams have renewed discussions, but there is one major thing to keep in mind: Robinson is what's known as a base-year compensation player, which can be a complicating factor. Robinson makes $4 million, but the Knicks can take back a maximum of only $2.02 million in returning salary.
Just an educated guess, but if Boston was willing to trade a No. 1 pick for Nate, it'd blunt the pain of New York surrendering a first-rounder or two to the Rockets in a McGrady deal. On a related note, three plugged-in sources indicated the Knicks seemed eager to get their business done Wednesday rather than wait until the 11th hour Thursday afternoon.

Re: Trade-talk roundup

POSTED: Feb. 17 -- 1:15 a.m. ET

Chris Broussard: Sources with direct knowledge of negotiations between the Cavaliers and Wizards deny a report that the Cavs have made an offer (Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Jamario Moon, first-round pick) for Antawn Jamison.
The clubs have had discussions, but no offer is on the table, according to the sources.
Cleveland is still waiting for Phoenix to give a verdict on its offer of Ilgauskas, J.J. Hickson and a first-round pick for Amare Stoudemire. But the Cavs' interest in Jamison is real. Cleveland is very excited about Hickson's development and if they could obtain Jamison without giving up Hickson, they may consider taking that deal over the Stoudemire deal.
The Cavs have also had talks with Indiana about Troy Murphy, as well as Golden State about Corey Maggette.
Phoenix has been shopping Cleveland's offer around the league, basically asking clubs if they can top it.
Miami is trying, and Charlotte also tried to get in the discussions. But since the Bobcats don't have any expiring contracts, they have nothing of interest to the Suns. Sources say Stoudemire would not be interested in re-signing with Charlotte anyway.
There has been speculation that the Cavs are not truly interested in Stoudemire because they have yet to contact his agent, Happy Walters, about whether Stoudemire would sign a long-term deal with Cleveland.
But sources close to the situation say Stoudemire would be of value to the Cavaliers regardless of his feelings about a long-term contract. If things go well and Cleveland wins a title, he'll likely want to re-sign, and if he doesn't want to re-sign, the Cavs will be able to use him in a sign-and-trade deal.
Milwaukee, loaded with expiring contracts, is one of the more active teams and is expected to make a deal before the Thursday deadline. The Bucks have interest in Indiana's Troy Murphy, but the Pacers' asking price is too steep.
Denver, in search of a big man, contacted the Bucks about Kurt Thomas and Hakim Warrick. But talks didn't go far after the Nuggets refused to offer any of their rotation players.

Re: Trade-talk roundup

If making a trade involving Murphy for "some worth while asset for the future" is not going to happen....then why not make one to make another push ( despite it being futile ) for this season's playoffs?

Before you ask why on Earth I would even consider "trying to make the Playoffs", I don't....I'm perfectly cool with playing McRoberts and Solo while dumping Murphy for nothing and essentially "tanking". But do you think that it's out of the realm of possibility that the Pacers FO is not thinking of returning to the Playoffs ( again )?

The Pacers FO has essentially done the same thing over the last 2 seasons....why not continue to do so despite the fact that we are 8 games out of the 8th spot? For all we know, the Pacers FO could be thinking that if it weren't injuries to our decimated Frontcourt....we'd actually be doing much better.

I'd wonder if we could swing some deal with the Bucks and some 3rd Team.

The Pacers gets some Frontcourt Depth for this season with Kurt Thomas and some other Asset for Ridnour's $6.5 mil 2009-2010 Expiring Contract

I don't know...I'm bored and throwing the proverbial "spaghetti against the wall" to see what sticks. I think that we have seen what Murphy's trade value is....he's not even worth an Expiring Contract and some asset for the future. Maybe the best that we can expect is to do the same old ( stupid ) thing that we have done.....continue on the road of futility and try for the Playoffs again .

EDIT - I was reading on the Bucks RealGM board that Chad Ford said that the Thunder maybe interested in moving Collison+Suns 2010 1st round pick for an Expiring. How about:

Re: Trade-talk roundup

God our talent is so bad we cannot even get our second best player to be some other teams 3rd option right now for a trade.

The real problem is that we aren't dealing from a position of strength in talks with the Cavs. Murphy is overpaid, awful on defense, and not the best PF available; Cleveland doesn't have to make a deal at all, much less overpay for a guy like him.

Re: Trade-talk roundup

To save you all from grief, here is the trade recap for this deadline from the pacers perspective:

NOTHING

All talk, but nothing gets done.

Seriously, do not get your hopes up. There are feelers out for teams willing to overpay for Troy Murphy or TJ Ford, but since there are no more NBA GM's with the basketball front office acumen of Isiah Thomas, IT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN, PEOPLE.

Accept it, take a depth breath, and stop refreshing real gm and hoopshype windows every 5 minutes! otherwise the disappointment will make you "go PFFL"*.

Create an ignore list. I know it may seem unneighborly. But you're here to talk about the Pacers, not argue with someone who's just looking for an argument. Most of the regular users on here make use (at least occasionally) of the "Ignore" feature. Just go to "Settings" -> "Edit Ignore List" and add the names.

Re: Trade-talk roundup

For all y'all complaining about Troy Murphy's trade value... What about Amare's? What about Jamison's? Kevin Martin's? Can anyone name me one single player getting anything close to equal trade value on the market?

Hell, if the rumors of JJ for Trophy are true, then Troy is probably getting the closest to his own value right now. Isn't he?

Re: Trade-talk roundup

Jamison
Chad Ford: For weeks, sources close to the situation have asserted to ESPN.com that the Wizards were reluctant to trade Antawn Jamison. Over the course of the last 72 hours, however, it appears that the Wizards' position on Jamison has softened considerably.

Sources say the Wizards and Cavs had discussions on Tuesday about several potential deals that would send Jamison to Cleveland. The same sources said talks ended without a firm offer from Cleveland.

As of Wednesday afternoon, the Wizards are waiting on the Cavs to see if those potential deals become an actual trade.

"The ball is in Cleveland's court," one source told ESPN.com. "If Cleveland comes back with a firm offer based on the potential deals they discussed, I think the Wizards will move Jamison."

The Wizards' new stance on Jamison is being fueled by two factors. First, the trade of Caron Butler and Brendan Haywood for Josh Howard has left the team lacking in talent. Jamsion signed an extension with the club 18 months ago expecting to be on a contender. Now that the Wizards are in rebuilding mode, Jamison would like to be traded to a contender.

"Jamison is a great guy," one source said. "He's been a model player for the Wizards on and off the floor. The Wizards don't want to lose him. He's been a rock in the locker room. However, I think the Wizards want to do right by him. He's at the end of his career. He deserves to have a chance to win a title."

The other factor is that the Wizards are currently over the NBA's luxury tax threshold. At least one potential deal discussed with Cleveland on Tuesday (Jamison and Mike James for Zydrunas Ilgauskas and Jamario Moon) would put the Wizards below the tax this season. Getting below the tax could save the Wizards around $10 million this year once you factor in rebates that teams under the tax receive from the league.

If the Cavs decide to pull the trigger on the Amare Stoudemire deal instead, look for the Wizards to explore ways of trading Jamison this summer.

"I'll always be a part of Donnie Walsh."
-Ron Artest, Denver Post, 12.28.05

Re: Trade-talk roundup

For all y'all complaining about Troy Murphy's trade value... What about Amare's? What about Jamison's? Kevin Martin's? Can anyone name me one single player getting anything close to equal trade value on the market?

Hell, if the rumors of JJ for Trophy are true, then Troy is probably getting the closest to his own value right now. Isn't he?

Only when (IF) any of those players are traded will we know what their trade value is. Until then it is just speculation.

Re: Trade-talk roundup

For all y'all complaining about Troy Murphy's trade value... What about Amare's? What about Jamison's? Kevin Martin's? Can anyone name me one single player getting anything close to equal trade value on the market?

Hell, if the rumors of JJ for Trophy are true, then Troy is probably getting the closest to his own value right now. Isn't he?

That's what been painfully clear, everything that we have heard is that the best offer that the Pacers received ( supposedly ) is the "Last resort / Plan B / Taco Bell 99 cent Value Menu Burrito / Choose the Ugliest Girl at the Bar cuz you have no choice at the end of the night" offer from the Cavs where we get an Expiring Contract and an extreme reluctance to give up anything of value.

What value does a $12+ mil Expiring Contract get on the Open Market in 2010-2011 Trade Deadline when the best offer that we got this season was a Expiring Contract and a prospect?

Re: Trade-talk roundup

That's what been painfully clear, everything that we have heard is that the best offer that the Pacers received ( supposedly ) is the "Last resort / Plan B / Taco Bell 99 cent Value Menu Burrito / Choose the Ugliest Girl at the Bar cuz you have no choice at the end of the night" offer from the Cavs where we get an Expiring Contract and an extreme reluctance to give up anything of value.

What value does a $12+ mil Expiring Contract get on the Open Market in 2010-2011 Trade Deadline when the best offer that we got this season was a Expiring Contract and a prospect?

THIS.

That's the one thing I hope Bird and also the Pacers fans realize. Look at what expire contracts have to offer this year. And we're talking about what is suppose to be one of the biggest free agent years, with an array of superstars possibly available, and as of now an expiring gets you the like of Caron Butler, who is a good player don't get me wrong, but not necessarily a franchise changer, and he's only available b/c the Wizards are blowing up the team, same can be said for Jamison.

You also have Amare, but there are some who are even skeptical about him. Plus the Amare and Jamison deals are requiring a team to give up either a 1st round pick, or young prospect. SERIOUSLY?

Let's not forget the fact that the big "difference maker" being traded is going to have to want to play in Indiana.... yeah right.

So far the guys on the move for expiring have gone to a contender Like Butler to Dallas, or Camby to Portland. Amare is rumored to the Heat or to the Cavs along with Jamison.

The same can be said for a free agent. of course money talks, but players these days want a chance to win as well, and the Pacers don't offer that right now, and we're not a big market so we don't have the Knicks or Nets type of attraction either

Our best bet is to luck out in the draft, or take a gamble by overpaying or signing for a young player who hasn't got a chance to show his stuff on another team and needs a change of scenery, or hoping a good player on a team that's stacked what's to be the main guy, or showcase his skills elsewhere to get more credit.

Though we have contracts coming off the books in 2011, that frankly means nothing except Bird better make his decisions a lot more wisely, b/c he can't afford to play it safe when that time comes

Re: Trade-talk roundup

POSTED: Feb. 17 -- 2:38 p.m. ET

Stoudemire

Chad Ford: All is still quiet on the Amare Stoudemire trade front. As of Wednesday afternoon, sources familiar with the negotiations said the Suns have yet to signal whether the team will trade Stoudemire to the Cavs or Heat -- or whether they'll trade him at all.
The Cavs have been pushing for the Suns to give them an answer. But Phoenix is holding out and will likely wait until Thursday to make a decision, according to sources.
Of the two teams vying for Stoudemire, only the Heat have actually received permission from the Suns to speak to Stoudemire's agent. The Cavs, as of Wednesday afternoon, have yet to call.
Still, sources close to the negotiations say that, right now, Cleveland is the front-runner. Why? Because the Heat have yet to offer the Suns a deal that would beat the Cavs' offer of Zydrunas Ilgauskas and J.J. Hickson. One source familiar with the negotiations told ESPN.com that the Heat have yet to offer Michael Beasley or either of their two first-round picks.
"I'm not sure Miami is willing to pay the price for Amare," a Suns source told ESPN.com. "We have to get something for him. We're not giving him away. If Miami gets serious then I think they would get him. But right now, they are not showing they're serious."
Is there a possibility that Amare isn't traded at all?
"It's possible," the Suns source said. "We haven't been blown away with an offer yet."
If the Suns decide to keep Stoudemire, it could be a rocky few months. A source familiar with the negotiations told ESPN.com that the Suns and Stoudemire have ended all talks on a contract extension. If Stoudemire plays out the season in Phoenix, he'll likely leave this summer.
"He's being personally wooed by LeBron James and Dwyane Wade," the source said. "On the other side, he's being actively shopped by the Suns. He feels like he may be more wanted elsewhere."

Re: Trade-talk roundup

POSTED: Feb. 17 -- 3:09 p.m. ET

McGrady

Chad Ford: The Knicks and Rockets spoke this morning about a potential Tracy McGrady trade. Sources familiar with the negotiations told ESPN.com that while the Knicks told the Rockets that they remain interested in acquiring McGrady in a deal for Larry Hughes and Jared Jeffries, they are still unwilling to meet all of the Rockets' demands -- cap relief, Jordan Hill, the swapping of 2011 first-round picks and the Knicks' 2012 first-round pick.
"We'd like McGrady and the cap relief," one Knicks source said. "But the Rockets are asking for too much. We're willing to pay a premium to make a deal. But the price right now is still too high."
According to the source, the Rockets are still looking for other partners. The Bulls have been mentioned as a possibility, however, sources believe that their offer is less attractive than the Knicks' -- even if the Knicks don't give the Rockets everything they're asking for.
The Knicks also had several other trades brewing on Wednesday. Two sources said the Celtics and Knicks are in advanced talks about a Nate Robinson-for-Eddie House swap. However, both sources stressed that a deal was not completed yet.
The Timberwolves also inquired about a possible Darko Milicic-for-Brian Cardinal deal. The Knicks might be inclined to pull the trigger (it could save them some cash this year) depending on what happens with the Rockets and Celtics.