Why is it, that if a single person (or married folk who don't have kids) have to pay for schools via property taxes/school levies etc, while someone who DOES have kids, but rents does not have to pay for the services that those schools provide?
Its almost to me like society is saying to single folk "Rent or you will be paying for other people's kids!

imported_WILDJOKER5

02-28-2014, 02:21 AM

You aren't suggesting that the land lord isn't including the escrow costs into the amount the house is rented for are you? But I do agree with you on the premiss that you are going with. Because of Taxes and government handouts, the price for basic services that most people should be able to afford is to expensive. Schooling for your own kids should be easy if you aren't paying property taxes. I spent $10k (1/3 of my income) for daycare last year for 2 kids, and could still spend more if I wanted to. Its about priorities. Making sure my kids have the best education/care is more important to me than a massive truck or the best new cell phone or big TV or video games or clothes. And I am a single father with no government help or help from their mother.

sandsjames

02-28-2014, 01:19 PM

Why is it, that if a single person (or married folk who don't have kids) have to pay for schools via property taxes/school levies etc, while someone who DOES have kids, but rents does not have to pay for the services that those schools provide?
Its almost to me like society is saying to single folk "Rent or you will be paying for other people's kids!

It's annoying. I've got no kids, but my property taxes are extremely high because of the school tax. Renters aren't paying any taxes related to their rent. Maybe WillsPowers was on to something.

TJMAC77SP

02-28-2014, 02:45 PM

It's annoying. I've got no kids, but my property taxes are extremely high because of the school tax. Renters aren't paying any taxes related to their rent. Maybe WillsPowers was on to something.

Your property taxes pay for more than schools and the concept of free public education mandates a shared burden. Otherwise it's private school for everyone and therefore no school for some (like in past history).

Renters do pay indirectly since the property owner pays the property tax and passes that on via rent.

garhkal

02-28-2014, 07:00 PM

Your property taxes pay for more than schools and the concept of free public education mandates a shared burden. Otherwise it's private school for everyone and therefore no school for some (like in past history).

Renters do pay indirectly since the property owner pays the property tax and passes that on via rent.

But that's the issue i am seeing problems with. Why SHOULD there be a 'shared' burden? Why should those who don't use service XYZ (schools and child services in this case) be required to pony up to cover those who DO use it?

sandsjames

02-28-2014, 07:10 PM

Your property taxes pay for more than schools and the concept of free public education mandates a shared burden. Otherwise it's private school for everyone and therefore no school for some (like in past history).

Renters do pay indirectly since the property owner pays the property tax and passes that on via rent.

My school tax that I pay in Texas does not pay for more than just schools. The other property taxes go to the county, etc, but the school tax is very specific.

sandsjames

02-28-2014, 07:13 PM

But that's the issue i am seeing problems with. Why SHOULD there be a 'shared' burden? Why should those who don't use service XYZ (schools and child services in this case) be required to pony up to cover those who DO use it?

Especially in States where so much lottery money is supposed to go to the schools. I have no problem with part of my income tax going to schools, but the property tax really bugs me.

Though, I suppose that if I look at it as more revenue for the school increases the quality of the school/education then, in turn, the area should be more educated, meaning higher employment rates...in turn, increasing my property value. Of course, that's only in theory. I'm sure most of it, especially in Texas, goes to the football program.

LogDog

03-01-2014, 02:22 AM

But that's the issue i am seeing problems with. Why SHOULD there be a 'shared' burden? Why should those who don't use service XYZ (schools and child services in this case) be required to pony up to cover those who DO use it?
Why should those who don't drive on certain highways or city roads be required to pony up to cover those who DO use it?

I'm single, a homeowner, and I pay property taxes and it doesn't bother me that some of my taxes goes to schools. There are kinds of common services property taxpayers help to support the community. These are the "commons" that all citizens contribute towards the good of the community. The "commons" include things like police and fire services, roads, sewers, water, etc. and it's not only the property owners that pay it's also the renters who pay the taxes through their rent.

Just because you don't use or benefit from a public service doesn't mean you shouldn't contribute to the good of the community. There are services in my city I don't use but it doesn't bother me that other citizens are using them because those services are beneficial to the community. We have a city pool as well as a recreation/gym center and I don't use them but they are partially paid for with my property taxes. They provide a service to the rest of the citizens by giving them an area to exercise and improve their health. As for schools, they educate the children who will be the shopkeepers, dentists, doctors, construction workers, truck drivers, etc. in the coming years so I don't mind it if my property taxes helps to pay for their education.

Absinthe Anecdote

03-01-2014, 03:59 AM

Why should those who don't drive on certain highways or city roads be required to pony up to cover those who DO use it?

I'm single, a homeowner, and I pay property taxes and it doesn't bother me that some of my taxes goes to schools. There are kinds of common services property taxpayers help to support the community. These are the "commons" that all citizens contribute towards the good of the community. The "commons" include things like police and fire services, roads, sewers, water, etc. and it's not only the property owners that pay it's also the renters who pay the taxes through their rent.

Just because you don't use or benefit from a public service doesn't mean you shouldn't contribute to the good of the community. There are services in my city I don't use but it doesn't bother me that other citizens are using them because those services are beneficial to the community. We have a city pool as well as a recreation/gym center and I don't use them but they are partially paid for with my property taxes. They provide a service to the rest of the citizens by giving them an area to exercise and improve their health. As for schools, they educate the children who will be the shopkeepers, dentists, doctors, construction workers, truck drivers, etc. in the coming years so I don't mind it if my property taxes helps to pay for their education.

I with you, I think we should throw away all the cars and bombs in the world, and then, go to a park and sit on blankets drinking red wine and eating goat cheese while reciting poetry to each other.

Can you dig it?

LogDog

03-01-2014, 05:06 AM

I with you, I think we should throw away all the cars and bombs in the world, and then, go to a park and sit on blankets drinking red wine and eating goat cheese while reciting poetry to each other.

Also, don't you think if we did that someone would complain about their property taxes going to pay for a park that they never use? http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Laughing/grin-0003.gif

garhkal

03-01-2014, 05:55 AM

Especially in States where so much lottery money is supposed to go to the schools. I have no problem with part of my income tax going to schools, but the property tax really bugs me.

Though, I suppose that if I look at it as more revenue for the school increases the quality of the school/education then, in turn, the area should be more educated, meaning higher employment rates...in turn, increasing my property value. Of course, that's only in theory. I'm sure most of it, especially in Texas, goes to the football program.

True. Heck look at some uni/college campuses. With the amount they spend on campus 'upkeep' to beauty fy them, is it any wonder bills are so high?

Also, don't you think if we did that someone would complain about their property taxes going to pay for a park that they never use?

Heck take a look at CA. They raised taxes on smokers just to pay for 'smoker shacks' along some boardwalks, and then passed a law saying the smokers can't be within X feet of the boardwalk. That to me is a 'screw you' tax.

Also, don't you think if we did that someone would complain about their property taxes going to pay for a park that they never use? http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Laughing/grin-0003.gif

Hey man, once you adopt the hippie mentality you won't even bother yourself with thoughts like that.

You'll be self righteous enough to know that anyone who disagrees with you is just a Neanderthal.

Dig it man, as a neo-hippie, you'll come up with great ideas, like abolishing the NFL and American football and replacing it with a hacky sack league.

You'll see Sweden as a magical place and will start buying all your furniture from Ikea. You'll often speak of the importance of electric buses while festooning the rear portion of your hybrid car with bumper stickers that implore other drivers to plant seeds & sing songs.

Neo-hippies have all the answers and it's really easy to become one; you should not smoke pot, but you should act to act like you do.

If you want to be a leader in the neo-hippie movement, you really should have a post graduate degree, but it can be in something cool like music theory or post modern jazz.

So quit worrying about taxes, that's for all those mean corporations who rape Mother Earth.

Rainmaker

03-01-2014, 02:12 PM

Why is it, that if a single person (or married folk who don't have kids) have to pay for schools via property taxes/school levies etc, while someone who DOES have kids, but rents does not have to pay for the services that those schools provide?
Its almost to me like society is saying to single folk "Rent or you will be paying for other people's kids!

Das Rayciss

LogDog

03-01-2014, 07:20 PM

Heck take a look at CA. They raised taxes on smokers just to pay for 'smoker shacks' along some boardwalks, and then passed a law saying the smokers can't be within X feet of the boardwalk. That to me is a 'screw you' tax.

I live in California and I haven't noticed that. I don't know anywhere in California where there are "smoker shacks" paid for by tax dollars. If you have information on where they are would you please post a link so we can read up on it.

LogDog

03-01-2014, 07:22 PM

Hey man, once you adopt the hippie mentality you won't even bother yourself with thoughts like that.

You'll be self righteous enough to know that anyone who disagrees with you is just a Neanderthal.

Dig it man, as a neo-hippie, you'll come up with great ideas, like abolishing the NFL and American football and replacing it with a hacky sack league.

You'll see Sweden as a magical place and will start buying all your furniture from Ikea. You'll often speak of the importance of electric buses while festooning the rear portion of your hybrid car with bumper stickers that implore other drivers to plant seeds & sing songs.

Neo-hippies have all the answers and it's really easy to become one; you should not smoke pot, but you should act to act like you do.

If you want to be a leader in the neo-hippie movement, you really should have a post graduate degree, but it can be in something cool like music theory or post modern jazz.

So quit worrying about taxes, that's for all those mean corporations who rape Mother Earth.
I was a teenager during the hippie movement and we don't need a neo-hippie movement. I believe these neo-hippies are called hipster doofus.

Absinthe Anecdote

03-01-2014, 07:44 PM

I was a teenager during the hippie movement and we don't need a neo-hippie movement. I believe these neo-hippies are called hipster doofus.

Naw, the hipsters take baths and are in to fashionable clothes. Hippies rarely wash and try to cover up their odor with vanilla extract and clove oil.

I pity you for having to grow up around those clowns.

LogDog

03-02-2014, 12:13 AM

Naw, the hipsters take baths and are in to fashionable clothes. Hippies rarely wash and try to cover up their odor with vanilla extract and clove oil.

I pity you for having to grow up around those clowns.
Sorry to disappoint you but I didn't grow up around them. I said I was a teenager during the hippie movement but I grew but I lived in a very conservative area.

As for the hipsters doofus people, they use colognes and perfumes that would gag an elephant. It's kind of like going to the zoo to observe the animals. The cages and moats allow you to observe them but keeps you from coming into contact with them. Like being at the zoo, I try to stay away from hippies then and the hipster doofus' today.

sandsjames

03-02-2014, 12:21 AM

I live in California and I haven't noticed that. I don't know anywhere in California where there are "smoker shacks" paid for by tax dollars. If you have information on where they are would you please post a link so we can read up on it.

Santa Cruz...Not paid for by tax dollars...but part of the excuse for an increase in the tobacco tax. Then they can't even be used for smoking.

garhkal

03-02-2014, 03:57 AM

I live in California and I haven't noticed that. I don't know anywhere in California where there are "smoker shacks" paid for by tax dollars. If you have information on where they are would you please post a link so we can read up on it.

I remember several years ago there was a news story on some blvd that was "needing cleaned up and designated smoking areas so butts were not all over the place". CA supposedly put a tax on smokes to pay for the building OF those shelters and the clean up, then passed a law saying you can't bring tobacco products within X distance of the beach, which made those pavilions smokers effectively paid for off limits TO smoke in them.
Unfortunately my Google-fu is not pulling anything up right now.

Santa Cruz...Not paid for by tax dollars...but part of the excuse for an increase in the tobacco tax. Then they can't even be used for smoking.

Glad someone else remembers it.

AJBIGJ

03-05-2014, 04:15 PM

The one thing I hate about the whole notion of the "public school system" is not specifically an issue of cost but one of efficacy. There is nearly zero incentive (beyond personal pride) to be exceptional in any aspect of educating our youth in the way we have it set up. Being good as an educator neither provides significant advantages in pay, job security, nor quality of life. The few measurable objectives they do have for effectiveness have an air of arbitrariness to their definitions and the metrics tend to be towards the benefit of those that are the least effective, not the most, through the appropriation of government funding. Education is the absolute best example of a union that has grown far too powerful and often operates against the best interests of both the employees and the students.

More of than not, charter schools have a far lower operational cost involved and manage to educate their students far better than their public counterparts. If anyone disagrees with this statement I offer this counterargument, charter schools exist! By what possible logic could one argue that the public school systems are very effective, yet people still choose to pay the additional costs of sending their children to charter schools, while they still pay the associated taxes for their local public counterparts?

imported_WILDJOKER5

03-05-2014, 04:26 PM

My school tax that I pay in Texas does not pay for more than just schools. The other property taxes go to the county, etc, but the school tax is very specific.

Like the same way taxes on Gas always goes to pay for road construction? But we still needed to include a large bulk of cash from the failed stimulus for road construction. Sorry, but when taxes are collected and put into a big pot of money, the same amount doesnt go to where it was claimed to go unless you have a REALLLY GOOD town.

sandsjames

03-05-2014, 04:42 PM

Like the same way taxes on Gas always goes to pay for road construction? But we still needed to include a large bulk of cash from the failed stimulus for road construction. Sorry, but when taxes are collected and put into a big pot of money, the same amount doesnt go to where it was claimed to go unless you have a REALLLY GOOD town.

I was never claiming to know where the money went. Was just pointing out that I have a school tax and I have a county tax. Two separate taxes.

imported_WILDJOKER5

03-05-2014, 05:24 PM

I was never claiming to know where the money went. Was just pointing out that I have a school tax and I have a county tax. Two separate taxes.

Ah, ok. I would also immagine that our property taxes could be lower if the states didnt have to kick up to the feds some taxes just to wait for the fed to funnel the money back out to the states for schools.

retiredAFcivvy

03-05-2014, 05:33 PM

I was never claiming to know where the money went. Was just pointing out that I have a school tax and I have a county tax. Two separate taxes.

Isn't your school tax collected by the county?

sandsjames

03-05-2014, 05:39 PM

Ah, ok. I would also immagine that our property taxes could be lower if the states didnt have to kick up to the feds some taxes just to wait for the fed to funnel the money back out to the states for schools.

Well, it all works out, I guess, since there isn't any state income tax.

sandsjames

03-05-2014, 05:40 PM

Isn't your school tax collected by the county?

They are two separate bills. I think the school tax is a town/city tax.

imported_WILDJOKER5

03-05-2014, 05:44 PM

They are two separate bills. I think the school tax is a town/city tax.

Not all neighborhoods are part of the city either. Where I grew up, we lived in a neighborhood of about 4 roads with 10 houses on each side. So about 80 homes. We were smack in the middle of the city, but did not belong to the city. We did not get the garbage taken or water from the city, and had no hook up to the sewer, it was all county only services. But I still went to the local high school.

sandsjames

03-05-2014, 06:02 PM

Not all neighborhoods are part of the city either. Where I grew up, we lived in a neighborhood of about 4 roads with 10 houses on each side. So about 80 homes. We were smack in the middle of the city, but did not belong to the city. We did not get the garbage taken or water from the city, and had no hook up to the sewer, it was all county only services. But I still went to the local high school.

Ok...

LogDog

03-05-2014, 06:37 PM

I remember several years ago there was a news story on some blvd that was "needing cleaned up and designated smoking areas so butts were not all over the place". CA supposedly put a tax on smokes to pay for the building OF those shelters and the clean up, then passed a law saying you can't bring tobacco products within X distance of the beach, which made those pavilions smokers effectively paid for off limits TO smoke in them.
Unfortunately my Google-fu is not pulling anything up right now.

Glad someone else remembers it.
I've lived off and on in California for 14 out of the last 16 years and never heard of anything like this. It may be true but it has the appearance of being an urban legend. If someone can post a link verifying this story then maybe we can see if it's true.

In doing a search of Sant Cruz Sentinel newspaper, there are a number of articles concerning banning cigarette smoking on certain streets and making Santa Cruz smoke-free in public areas but nothing about smoking shelters. Like I said, I Think it's an urban legend.

sandsjames

03-05-2014, 06:40 PM

I've lived off and on in California for 14 out of the last 16 years and never heard of anything like this. It may be true but it has the appearance of being an urban legend. If someone can post a link verifying this story then maybe we can see if it's true.

In doing a search of Sant Cruz Sentinel newspaper, there are a number of articles concerning banning cigarette smoking on certain streets and making Santa Cruz smoke-free in public areas but nothing about smoking shelters. Like I said, I Think it's an urban legend.

I will search for the articles and post them if I can find them.

garhkal

03-05-2014, 08:04 PM

Like the same way taxes on Gas always goes to pay for road construction? But we still needed to include a large bulk of cash from the failed stimulus for road construction. Sorry, but when taxes are collected and put into a big pot of money, the same amount doesnt go to where it was claimed to go unless you have a REALLLY GOOD town.

Not just taxes on gas, but car registration taxes go for roads, so do tolls...

imported_WILDJOKER5

03-06-2014, 11:17 AM

Not just taxes on gas, but car registration taxes go for roads, so do tolls...

Tolls typically go to the road they are on, at least when they are private built roads like the FL Turnpike.

garhkal

03-06-2014, 06:42 PM

They are supposed to...

garhkal

04-11-2014, 06:44 PM

I just checked and calculated it out. Last year my total property tax was 2360 bucks. Out of that, i pay 1621 for schools, 66.32 for 'vocational schools' (what the heck is there a separate tax for the 2??) and 170 bucks for 'child services. So over 70% of my property tax is paid for kids, something i don't have. And i found out that THIS year's property tax is going up 600 bucks MORE for another 'levie' for schools. Its getting to the point i am seriously considering selling off the 2 houses i own, and going BACK to renting.

USMC0341

04-11-2014, 06:56 PM

my property taxes are 5200 for school; every year at least another hundred or more gets tacked on. we havent reassessed home bvalues since 1990, so only newer builds are really bearing the brunt of the costs. It's funny because my friend lives in MD, has a house worth 2x mine and pays almost $2000 less a year in taxes...

We are getting ready to leave move out of our County (our County determines assessed values, while the schools determine the millage rates for taxes) we pay 70% of assessed value, while the county to the north pays 52% of assessed value, with the County assessment having been done in 1994.

way too many district administrators and top heavy costs, not to mention defined benefit pension plans that are killing the budgets.

Stalwart

04-11-2014, 10:52 PM

I think that property taxes funding schools is reasonable, it is part of the community & part of what makes people want to live in particular areas. At the same time, tax revenue should be spread too to help fund lower income districts as well (I don't personally think zip code/neighborhood should be the sole factor on a good education.)

It's funny because my friend lives in MD, has a house worth 2x mine and pays almost $2000 less a year in taxes...

I find it wierd too, since MD taxes (I live here) are generally higher than other places I am used to living.

Vrake

04-11-2014, 11:14 PM

Going to be that guy again but like income taxes property taxes should be based the same.

If you get 3000 a year tax credit on each kid then some of it should go to schools. Those who don't send kids to schools should pay less in property taxes. I know people who get more from their tax return then they pay in due to the number of kids they have. I am ok with zero tax if the allowance exceeds what was paid in.

Just don't make me pay when the V jay-jay becomes a clown car.

Class5Kayaker

04-14-2014, 04:23 PM

I just checked and calculated it out. Last year my total property tax was 2360 bucks. Out of that, i pay 1621 for schools, 66.32 for 'vocational schools' (what the heck is there a separate tax for the 2??) and 170 bucks for 'child services. So over 70% of my property tax is paid for kids, something i don't have. And i found out that THIS year's property tax is going up 600 bucks MORE for another 'levie' for schools. Its getting to the point i am seriously considering selling off the 2 houses i own, and going BACK to renting.

As some have pointed out in this thread, you'll still be essentially paying those taxes via your rent. Landlords tend to charge a rent that will at least cover all their expenses (loan payment, taxes, property management, etc.).

Rusty Jones

04-14-2014, 05:39 PM

You know why you pay taxes for other people's children to go to school? Because, as many idiots in the world as there are now, you'd only be making matters worse if you had it your way.

I'll gladly pay my property taxes it if means that I won't have to be around more stupid people.

Absinthe Anecdote

04-14-2014, 08:13 PM

You know why you pay taxes for other people's children to go to school? Because, as many idiots in the world as there are now, you'd only be making matters worse if you had it your way.

I'll gladly pay my property taxes it if means that I won't have to be around more stupid people.

I just wish they would hold someone accountable for how the school districts spend their budgets. In Maryland they throw a lot of money at the schools, not only taxes but money from the lottery and stadium authority too.

We have some very good school systems in the state, but then there is Baltimore and PG County where it is blackboard jungle. I blame the school administrators of those districts, they are given plenty of money to work with, but aren't producing results.

garhkal

04-14-2014, 08:21 PM

You know why you pay taxes for other people's children to go to school? Because, as many idiots in the world as there are now, you'd only be making matters worse if you had it your way.

I'll gladly pay my property taxes it if means that I won't have to be around more stupid people.

And you honestly think that all these public schools is preventing stupid people? Kids these days are coming out LESS educated than at any time in our past.

BENDER56

04-15-2014, 03:30 AM

And you honestly think that all these public schools is preventing stupid people? Kids these days are coming out LESS educated than at any time in our past.

Speaking of stupid people, I like that $1.25 billion in state lottery funds went to Florida education in 2010. I like it because not one penny of it came from me.

"Lotteries are a tax on the mathematically impaired." ~Garrison Keillor

Also speaking of stupid, it should be, "... all these public schools are preventing stupid people?". But it's cool -- I'm sure you went to public school.:D

Rusty Jones

04-15-2014, 01:01 PM

And you honestly think that all these public schools is preventing stupid people? Kids these days are coming out LESS educated than at any time in our past.

Sounds like you've bought into the wholesale war on public education. Considering the fact that graduating high school was actually considered a big deal up until the 1980's, since so many adults didn't even finish before then... it appears to me that you're repeating cliches.

garhkal

04-15-2014, 08:51 PM

No, i am just going off of latest stats showing how many can't properly spell etc when they graduate.

LogDog

04-15-2014, 10:13 PM

I think that property taxes funding schools is reasonable, it is part of the community & part of what makes people want to live in particular areas. At the same time, tax revenue should be spread too to help fund lower income districts as well (I don't personally think zip code/neighborhood should be the sole factor on a good education.)

I find it wierd too, since MD taxes (I live here) are generally higher than other places I am used to living.
The city I live-in in California has a school bond proposition on the upcoming ballot to make up for a shortfall in state funding. Our city is affluent and California changed the formula on how school monies are allotted leaving us with about $2 million deficit. This loss of state money will cause our school district to layoff teachers.

We have a lot of "old timers" who if they had to pay a nickle more in taxes they'd be crying it was too oppressive on them while they're driving their Mercedes and Audis to their million dollar homes. What the school bond proposition would do is cost a homeowner $40 on every $100,000 of assessed value. For me, that comes to about $240 for my condo and I, as a retired enlisted person, don't think that's unreasonable to keep our schools operating. Our school district is one of the highest performing in the county and has been for many years. Cutting school teachers and programs isn't going to help the students.

LogDog

04-15-2014, 10:16 PM

And you honestly think that all these public schools is preventing stupid people? Kids these days are coming out LESS educated than at any time in our past.
I disagree. The kids are smarter and have better education and my generation but it's how you use that education that matters. Spelling doesn't mean your smart or stupid but it's a skill that everyone does with different results. I've know people who most would consider stupid who could spell rings around college graduates.

Absinthe Anecdote

04-15-2014, 10:17 PM

No, i am just going off of latest stats showing how many can't properly spell etc when they graduate.

Who are you?

LogDog

04-15-2014, 10:19 PM

You know why you pay taxes for other people's children to go to school? Because, as many idiots in the world as there are now, you'd only be making matters worse if you had it your way.

I'll gladly pay my property taxes it if means that I won't have to be around more stupid people.
The argument I use with people is these kids are the one who will be our doctors, nurses, pilots, bankers, auto mechanics, business owners, etc. in a couple of years. If we don't fund their schools adequately then we won't be producing the doctors, nurses, pilots, bankers, auto mechanics, business owners, etc. to replace those who are retiring.