I don't want to have back T11. A lot of content somehow felt kind of buggy to me. This nearly impossible hyper speed clicking on Atramedes or Maloriak. Omnitron luck stuff. There was a lot stuff that didn't work really good. This Tier I think all bosses are kind of "fair". When you play them right they will fall.

I don't even know what you're talking about? Hyperspeed clicking on Atramedes? What, to interrupt the ability which was on a set, known timer? Maloriak? To do what, pick up adds fromt he opposite side of the room? Break tombs? Omnitron "luck stuff"? Omnitron wasn't hard. Ever. Even on heroic, the order in which you got them wasn't a huge deal, though of course some combos were a bit easier.

If you thought those mechanics in t11 were tough, you're really not qualified to talk about whether T11 was a valid model in terms of nerfing/not nerfing an instance.

Looking at wowprogress Elegon could get a very small nerf on orb HP but other than that I haven't seen many complains about brick walls. And ilvl solves Elegon for those stuck anyway.

I think their goal for all of this is to show more people the content. The impression I got is that they first tried debuffs in T12 but that we didn't like it and they didn't see a huge increase in extra raiding people from it. Then they tried optional debuffs in T13 to shut raiders up and they added LFR as an extra option. And I think the result is that anyone who wanted could get boosted in LFR to see the content, while those same people also still didn't suddenly started to raid normal modes.

So if it was all to show more people all the content, then LFR has succeeded and the debuffs haven't. As such we will keep seeing LFR in the game and hopefullly no more debuffs.
That is if reasoning applies to Blizzard.

I think nerfs, specially the Tier 13 one made content (8/8 hc dragonsoul) so easy that it made people delutional of their abilities and personal aswell as their guilds skill level. I know of several guilds who had never cleared a whole tier before the next one came out before dragonsoul that ended up steamrolling it in the end. And Now that they started raiding in MoP they feel way worse because there is no handholding, even in normal modes.

I really hope blizzard doesn't resort to nerf debuffs or buffs such as Dragonsoul, ICC or otherwise but go with the individual boss nerfs instead.

I mean, when you get to 30% nerf on bosses HP you can negate whole phases, and it's just not the same fights.

This nerf X and Y thing is getting out of hand. These bosses are piss easy on normal. I DO NOT WANT LFR DIFFICULTY FOR NORMAL MODES!!! Thtas what LFR is for. Nuking a boss with ignoring mechanics.

Why do people always want somehting as an incentive for doing nothing. If you suck @ pushing 4-6 Buttons and paying attention to bossmechanics which include moving out of stuff or switching targets than guess what: This game is not designed for you! Its designed for people with a IQ above that of a potato.

These are all base mechanics on every normal and even heroic encounter that normal people should be able to understand after wiping a couple of times to it.

We have two 10 man raiding groups in our guild. Grp1 and Grp2

Grp1 is currently @ 4/6HMV 6/6HOF 4/4 TOES with 7 hours of raiding a week

Grp2 is currently @ 6/6MV 4/6HOF 1/4 Toes with the same time investment in raiding.

Well, what is the difference. Sure Grp1 has some better players, yes but there is one thing they dont see.

Grp1 players farm dailies, get their VP cap, read guides an discuss about them play PvP and so on.
Grp2 player log on to raids and LFR

And still I always here them complain about: Yeah you have all the good players blablabla

You get good at something because you invest TIME! into it. Everyone who invests time apporproate into this game will get mediocre at this game and kill normal modes eventually. Sure some personal abilety help.

Sometimes people need to accept the thruth that they are not fitted for this game.

I personally hate these people who log on exclusively for raids and then go to the forum or /1 channel and cry out why they are not killing heros already QQQQQQQQQ everything is so hard.

Sorry it is not, yu dont put effort and time into it, you wont get anything out of it. Simple as that.

I wouldn't consider the spirit kings change a huge nerf. On heroic, every guild reset the boss until they got one of the "doable" combos anyway. For me, it was just an adjustment to make the fight less rng, not a nerf. The same damage/health is still there.

Should have been a fixed rotation from the beginning.

Not every guild. We never reset due to a bad order and still got a good ranking
(and we killed them in pretty much every possible order since)

You can say this to some degree. You could also say that releasing HOF/Terrace implicitly nerfs MSV and such. Gearing up is always a means of 'self-nerfing' content that is otherwise doable in lower level gear. The longer you gear up before you kill a boss, the more you've made the boss easier for yourself instead of killing it under more difficult conditions. Thanks to 3 LFR raids and dailies, there are so many ways to get up now that, like GC said, direct nerfs are probably not necessary.

I imagine that they'll remove the Feats of Strength for 5.2, so there will still be a point to them.

Why no point? The achievement still has extremely valid point - heroic content cleared WHEN IT IS CURRENT, ie. no nerfed/outgeared easy$hit every kid and their momma can do. Clear tier 14 when tier 14 is the highest, that's the point isn't it? Even Sinestra achievement had much less point in tier 13, when people did 2x more damage than tier 11 hc geared people back when T11 was current tier. Yet the achieve was still awarded, up to MoP release, when half of raiding playerbase was 8/8 HC DS with BiS or near-BiS gear 2 tiers above the content.

I don't care if I get this achievement 4 months after Paragon. I still defeated the same fight, with same available means, it just took me much longer because I can't take vacation for raiding every couple of months.

I don't think they are needed...they just gave us the item increase thing, so that's a good chunk of help right there no matter what your gear level or lack of luck may look like. We have LFR, I see no reason to nerf anything else.

blizzard dont want to give out 5% nerfs because they want to make sure they can suck alot of money out of their players before they do anything.

problem is however this isnt fun, beying stuck at elegon and having the whole guild given up and moved to hof instead because, thats my case, so now im stuck at a point
where I cant do mogu and therefore as a hunter i cant get my hands on a weapon, so i thought sure they will bring in a 5% nerf then we should be able to do this.

it's sad that a encounter in a normal mode raid has to be this hard as elegon is, everyone has to output 100% or it's a fail,, wait, isnt this normal mode?.. i understand in heroic everyone has to output 100% to get past bosses but in normal mode this doesnt make sence at all, now knowing there is no nerf incomig im glad i took the decition to cancel my subscription and as of now my account is frozen, I had enough.

sure you can say those people suck sure, isnt that what normal mode is for so those who arent outputting the max can clear the content?
those who can do everything perfect they can do heroics?

blizzard dont want to give out 5% nerfs because they want to make sure they can suck alot of money out of their players before they do anything.

problem is however this isnt fun, beying stuck at elegon and having the whole guild given up and moved to hof instead because, thats my case, so now im stuck at a point
where I cant do mogu and therefore as a hunter i cant get my hands on a weapon, so i thought sure they will bring in a 5% nerf then we should be able to do this.

it's sad that a encounter in a normal mode raid has to be this hard as elegon is, everyone has to output 100% or it's a fail,, wait, isnt this normal mode?.. i understand in heroic everyone has to output 100% to get past bosses but in normal mode this doesnt make sence at all, now knowing there is no nerf incomig im glad i took the decition to cancel my subscription and as of now my account is frozen, I had enough.

sure you can say those people suck sure, isnt that what normal mode is for so those who arent outputting the max can clear the content?
those who can do everything perfect they can do heroics?

Hitting cock blocks always sucks but it's a natural step in raiding even in normals. Things like Elegon will eventually be out scaled because there isn't really any "fire" mechanics, one week you will turn up to the boss, execute the basics decently and get the kill because all you need is higher ilvl to meet the appropriate numbers.

How long have you been stuck and how many wipes have you put in? Is your strategy actually viable? When are you are wiping? What's actually wiping you? Something like Elegon doesn't take anything close to "optimal play" to clear so you must be doing something wrong somewhere. There's not really any point in your guild tucking its tail between it's legs and skulking off to HoF because Garalon will destroy you.

Show some tenacity get stuck in and do some wiping, that's what raiding is all about. Everything in normal is well within your capabilities but you might have to raise your personal bar as a player but that's the whole point right? Unfortunately for you it would seem like your guild is below average, I mean that in the nicest way.......I realise that's an oxymoron but honestly I'm not trying to bash you. It's all fine if your having fun, a guild doesn't need to aim to be the best on it's server only to enrich the life of it's players. The point I'm trying to get to is that your guild and possibly you as a player has a lot catching up to do and most guilds don't need a nerf at this stage to get stuff down.

Chin up, these could be great times for you as a player. You've got your own training montage coming up and I wish you the best of luck.

That's what LFR is for. Now LFR exists normals don't have to pugable, you should at least have to execute the mechanics properly tuned around averagely geared players performing averagely.....which is exactly where the normals are now. My guild atm can ignore most mechanics in MSV now because the tuning is so low and people are around 486ish ilvl. Honestly normals don't need a nerf unless you want two levels of difficulty where mechanics are completely trivialised which is what you need to make it pugable.