So, just finished watching it again, and for some reason i found myself HEAVILY invested in Buffy and Spikes last days together, i mean, with them just sleeping together being incredibly intimate. I loved it. For some reason in previous viewings i wasnt into it as much. Also, Faith seems a little akward for some reason, and i disliked Keneddy a lot less this time around, i mean i actually enjoyed her bratty, pushy self.

Also also, Anya's death will never be ok.

Edit: Buffy's speaches about the hellmouth choking on her, and the one about sharing her power at the end, were amazing too.

Legion: I will circle around you until the stars die an the world has forgotten what makes us different, and I will shatter any future that dares to divide us.

One of the best shows ever produced, though i like angel slightly more. I think the reason Faith is so akward here is because her arc was essentially over in Buffy and i think it would have made more sense for her to stay with Angels crew. She didnt rwally have many ties to most of the characters in the show at this point and was basically an extra big name to throw in for the finale.

I don't think Buffy should ever date or marry. She's made so many poor choices, and the only "right one" was a doomed and tragic relationship as it is. And I don't think she should remain a bachelor because she's the slayer, but rather because she's Buffy, and she doesn't work in a relationship. I like that she values and respects the work people do to better themselves (IE Spike getting a soul and Faith turning herself over to the authorities and accepting her prison sentence, even though she could escape at any time). But it doesn't mean her relationships with them have to return to their former glory. They can evolve and be one of mutual respect.

I think Faith returning for the final season was imperative for the character, actually. I loved the show of rehabilitation in the character ("Are you the bad slayer now? Am I the good slayer now?!"). I didn't like the bits with the principal, but aside from his cool backstory, I didn't care for his characterization, so that might've had something to do with it (similar to my issues with Kennedy, but I stand by Dawn being worse than Kennedy).

I would like to learn the appeal of Angel. The show. I watched it. And it was just kinda background noise for me. I'd watch for Cordie, Fred, and Lorne, but eventually it was just... eh. I did like Harmony's involvement, though. Nothing else really sticks out in a memorable stance, other than how shitty Cordie's dismissal was, and how stupid Connor was. Ugh, and what they did to Wesley was abysmal as well.

To me Angel was all about redemption. It took the broken castoffs from Buffy and made them into complex characters that formed a remarkabke team. Alexis Denisoff (wesley) was amazing and his character evolution really drove the show for me. I also appreciated the more serious tone the show took on, as much as i love Buffy to me it was more comedic while Angel was definitely more dramatic and complex. It also felt more cohesive and more grounded then Buffy especially Buffy's later seasons.

Angel felt more cohesive and grounded? Definitely not for me / in my opinion, haha. I will say the comics took the canon into some crazy territories, but that was for all Buffyverse. I felt like (aside from the really annoying Buffy Gets a Job episodes), it just grew and grew, in an appropriate manner. My biggest qualm was the introduction of Dawn, but that's how I feel about ANY character that just appears and is forced down our throats to show how "important" they are, and the show did not need a Dawn at all. She already had her sister vibe with Willow, the Scoobies already had the 'weak link' with Xander, and if they wanted someone to pick up kleptomania so bad, they could've just given that to Anya. And going back on it, look at Anya's progression! That's how you introduce a character and lead them to becoming a main. Slowly. Not, "oh here, main character smack dab in the middle of a well built lore that suddenly changes everything, you're welcome". But aaanyway.

I just had a lot of issues with Angel, I guess. Maybe I'm just opposite to you. I felt like they should've had more fun.

See for some reason im becoming way more forgiving of annoying characters, i liked Dawn just fine this last viewing, but she is really given nothing to do besides getting over not being a potential real quick, i mean she was supposed to be trainining with Buffy since last season, and they give her new friends byt the beginings of S7, as a reflection of Buffy meeting Willow and Xander, but those plot points are almost immediately dropped or not mentioned againg, except for Dawn talking to that girl on the phone in "Conversations with Dead People". They were trying to make her "Watcher Junior" though, and apparently she leared to translate old languages for some reason.

I liked her best in S5 and in the begining of S6, when she is grieving over Buffy, but by the time she started stealing she was unbearable, and in S7 she is there, somehwat helpful, mostly silent.

Legion: I will circle around you until the stars die an the world has forgotten what makes us different, and I will shatter any future that dares to divide us.

Dawn was a concept character like Bishop was in the X-Men. There to fill the role for a particular plot but once it was over and done with their character just stagnated.

My favourite time was between season 3-5. The show had really found it's feet and it had a good mixture of one-off episodes and over-arching plots with character development. I hated Spike. Like seriously hated. I never understood why they kept him around. Season 7 got real annoying as he was featured predominantly.

Conversations with Dead People was one of their best episodes in later seasons, and I even enjoyed Dawn's role in it (for the most part). And in the comics, Dawn is a lot more tolerable, but I might only feel that way because you can't actually HEAR her whining.

I liked Spike as a villain and when he had Drusilla. I had a lot of hope that he'd become a true Big Bad once he got the chip out of his head (which, at the time, I assumed would happen way sooner). Then they went ahead and broke Buffy and Spike as characters by putting them together in ANY capacity, and Spike got a soul. Abysmal.

I will argue that I enjoyed Season 7 more than 5 and 6. While I loved Glory as a villain, one of the best the show saw, Dawn made every episode so hard to watch. Season 6 felt so watered down and was so Buffy Gets a Job, I couldn't. Sure, Dark Willow was incredible, but without a real main story for the titular character, it felt so unfocused (which could've been because of the network switch). I liked that season 7 was focused, had a clear driving point the entire season, maintained one-off episodes, and I loved the actual feeling of an impending apocalypse in later episodes (something they'd never really shown before). I was unimpressed with the "true" vampires in terms of aesthetics (if you're gonna reinvent the origin of vampires again, you gotta be way more creative than that), but I liked that The First was non-corporeal and just had to be extremely manipulative. And I loved the idea that it had no true form, only taking the form of the dead. I also liked that we knew about The First starting in season 3.

So I haven't read back through this thread as I'm doing my first watch of Buffy, and I've only gotten as far as the second episode of season 3 so far. Can I just say that I'm hoping Xander faces some consequences for what happened in Becoming? I completely understand Joyce and Willow's anger and sense of abandonment upon Buffy's return, but Xander had no right to treat Buffy the way he does when he's pretty much responsible for what happened with Angelus/Angel at the end of season 2.

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Well Xander gets a lot of growth in season 3. He goes from being just comic relief to actually having some depth. A lot of characters get a major shift this season. I envy that this is your first time watching.

Everytime i look back i want to watch this show all over again, i love it so much, and regarding Xander, i think its funny how in the first couple of seasons he was given the role of some sort of "muscle back up" for Buffy, wich is odd given that is not what his charachter is about, and later seasons stablish more how he is very much the epitome of the regular guy.

Legion: I will circle around you until the stars die an the world has forgotten what makes us different, and I will shatter any future that dares to divide us.