The reverse sear is the redneck version of sous vide...

So says the man that is often credited for popularizing it. He incorrectly even gets credited for inventing it in the press, he says that's not true. He has done the most comprehensive study of it and has published his finding for all of you to read. We all have our own way of using our BGE and that will never change. However I think we are all looking to improve our technic and our results as judge by the quality of our cooks. The gentleman that published this detailed study of when to cook low and slow and when to cook with extremely high direct heat was once a teacher at Cordon Bleu, a renown school of the culinary arts. He has won many BBQ competition awards. He is a published food and wine critic. Bottom line gentlemen... He knows more than we do. I highly recommend that you take a few minutes to read his study. It does apply to using your BGE to the best of it's ability. Happy Egging to all...
http://amazingribs.com/tips_and_technique/cooking_temperatures_and_reverese_sear.html

Comments

I have experimented with sous vide and, while it does produce very tender meat, it just ain't what I like in the finished product after a quick sear on the grill to finish it up. The meat doesn't have the same flavor in the end. Reverse sear is something that I have only recently started playing around with and the results have been good so far. One of the better experiences I have had while experimenting with reverse sear techniques is to not do the first part of the cook directly on a grill grate. Set the meat on a piece of foil or in a light pan so the fat that does render stays with the meat.

I have experimented with sous vide and, while it does produce very tender meat, it just ain't what I like in the finished product after a quick sear on the grill to finish it up. The meat doesn't have the same flavor in the end. Reverse sear is something that I have only recently started playing around with and the results have been good so far. One of the better experiences I have had while experimenting with reverse sear techniques is to not do the first part of the cook directly on a grill grate. Set the meat on a piece of foil or in a light pan so the fat that does render stays with the meat.

Allow me to move you toward finding a reverse sear technic that works for you. I would first suggest you click on the link above. Once you understand the science/physics of the reverse sear then you will need to find the technic to pull it off on a BGE. I've never met this guy in person, the guy that wrote all of the information in the link but... I have had online chats with him on his website. When he and I first starting chatting, I was a new BGE owner. My mission on those chats were to find a way to grill steaks on my BGE... At least as good as I could get off my small weber. Because for the first month I owned my BGE I wasn't getting that. He told me that the BGE was a great oven and a really good smoker but for grilling it sucked! His opinion was that the fire ring was just way to far from the hot lump to get a proper sear that gives you that deep dark mahogany crust like you get at real expensive Steakhouse's. Based on my first month of cooking steaks on my BGE he was dead right. I got medium rare meat but no dark crust. Through those chats with the guy I knew I had to find a way to get my steaks closer to the red hot lump coal at the end of the cook. I did believe his opinion and scientific proof that low and slow at the start of the cook was superior to the Trex method. So my mission at that point was to find a way to drop my meat to within 2" of the hot coal at the end of the cook. Little did I know but... I already owned the device to accomplish that mission. Weeks before I initiated these chats with Meathead, he's the guy that owns the website, I had bought from BGE what they call the GX grill extender. They sold it to me as something you stand on top of the grid that came with your BGE to have an additional cooking level. Sounded good to me. I thought I could put that on my regular grid and cook veggies or even add another level of ribs. So I bought it. Then after a few days of chats with Meathead I knew no matter how I did it, I had to find a way to get my meat closer to the hot coal or... Use my small weber for steaks and the BGE for long low and slow cooks, baking and smoking. So I got to thinking about that new GX grill extender I had just bought and wondered how far below the fire ring I could get it. So I got a tape measure and went out to the Egg thinking I'll measure this thing and see how close I can get it to the fire box. I measured the GX, it was 13 1/2" across. I measured the fire box and it was 13" across. I measured the fire ring and it was 14" across. I slipped the GX down to the top of the fire box and it fit like a glove!!! Problem solved! I sure wish that the BGE engineers that figured that out had communicated that feature to their sales division. The engineer's even put hinges on the legs that you use to mount it on top of you big grid - so that if you wanted to put it down low on top of your fire box you could fold the legs under it to get it right on top of the hot coal. Anyway... Read Meathead's science and physic's of why the reverse sear is your best option, then use the following infomation to give you a viable option for a setup that might work better than what you are doing now... Happy Egging my friend.
This setup is for steaks or anything else that requires a reverse sear. I want my lump 2 inches below the top of the fire box. I light my fire and then I put my GX grill extender right on top of my fire box. Then I put on my 18" regular grid on top of the fire ring, no platesetter needed for this cook. When my fire is ready I put the meat on the big grid that's on top of the fire ring and stabilize the cooking temp at 300 degrees, which is different than the dome temp. You are going to bake the steaks and they will brown very little at that temp being so far from the direct heat. I don't open the lid until the meat gets to 90 degrees. Then I open the lid and turn the meat over. I close the lid and let it cook to 110/115 degrees and then I open the lid and take the meat off and put it on a plate. I open the bottom vent wide open and I take off the grid that is on the fire ring so I can put the meat all the way down on the GX grid that is 2" from the red hot coal. You want to leave the lid open for the rest of the cook. While the fire is getting hotter I take that time to blot my meat with a paper towel to remove any water that has rindered during the first part of the cook. We want to sear the meat not steam it. Then I paint the side of the meat that I am going to sear first with beef love... That's fat trimmings from other cooks that I have done that I've rendered down to a liquid form, you can use olive oil or peanut oil. I return the meat to the grid and let it sear for 3 or 4 minutes and before I turn it I paint the side that's up with more beef love. Then after I turn the meat I get my handy dandy thermapen and check the meat temp again. When it reaches 135 I pull it. What you will get with this method is a nice crust that is a dark brown mahogany color and the interior will be pink, bumper to bumper... Just like you get at those real expensive Steakhouse's. That is a lot easier than taking out your platesetter and when your meat is only 2" from the red hot coal your fire doesn't have to be as hot to sear your meat as it does when your meat is at the top of your fire ring. Just a suggestion... We all have our own ways of doing things. By the way the GX only costs $25.

There is a nice plot in "Modernist Cuisine" which shows the theoretical heat at different distances from the lump in a BBQ. One of the things it illustrates is that the heat is so intense near the lump that raising the food a couple of inches, as many grills do, has almost no effect on the intensity of the heat. Not a big fall off till the food is about as far away from the coals as the coals are wide. What Eggers call the felt line. The reverse, as you've learned is also true. Get down below the fire ring for a great sear.

I have experimented with sous vide and, while it does produce very tender meat, it just ain't what I like in the finished product after a quick sear on the grill to finish it up. The meat doesn't have the same flavor in the end. ...

The cuts of meat that I have found most benefit from SV are really tough meats. Short ribs for 72 hours, big beef chucks for 60. Most steaks don't really need SV. But, there are a few stores near me that sell whole strip and ribeye sections for just a couple of bucks per pound that are at best select grade. I cut them into 2" thick slabs. Those can be improved w. a couple of days in the SV with a little butter in the bag. Still need a sear, but much better tenderness.

Still working on additional flavoring. Herbs, spices, salt, all can have a very unexpected effect when they are on meats for a couple of days at just barely cooking temps.

The best food in a Sous Vide for me are chicken breast and fish. The textures are out of this world. If you have never had a chicken breast pour juice out on you cutting board, try SV and you will see. Fish is the same way- crazy good.

I don't love the tough cuts of beef and Pork done SV but I understand why people do. Med rare, fork tender short ribs done for 72 hours are pretty cool but I much prefer them done in a braise.

There is a nice plot in "Modernist Cuisine" which shows the theoretical heat at different distances from the lump in a BBQ. One of the things it illustrates is that the heat is so intense near the lump that raising the food a couple of inches, as many grills do, has almost no effect on the intensity of the heat. Not a big fall off till the food is about as far away from the coals as the coals are wide. What Eggers call the felt line. The reverse, as you've learned is also true. Get down below the fire ring for a great sear.

Or - maybe bring the lump up? By accident I found the best reverse sear (for steak) was with a full firebox, lump piled high up to at least the middle of the fire ring, much like for a 12-14 hour cook. I guess this is similar to lowering the grid to the fire box. I do the "cook" indirect with a setter, 250-300 grid, then remove the setter and open the vents. The lump is very close to the grid sitting on the fire ring. Once the 2 minute sear is over, the egg is snuffed, ready for the next cook.

There is a nice plot in "Modernist Cuisine" which shows the theoretical heat at different distances from the lump in a BBQ. One of the things it illustrates is that the heat is so intense near the lump that raising the food a couple of inches, as many grills do, has almost no effect on the intensity of the heat. Not a big fall off till the food is about as far away from the coals as the coals are wide. What Eggers call the felt line. The reverse, as you've learned is also true. Get down below the fire ring for a great sear.

Or - maybe bring the lump up? By accident I found the best reverse sear (for steak) was with a full firebox, lump piled high up to at least the middle of the fire ring, much like for a 12-14 hour cook. I guess this is similar to lowering the grid to the fire box. I do the "cook" indirect with a setter, 250-300 grid, then remove the setter and open the vents. The lump is very close to the grid sitting on the fire ring. Once the 2 minute sear is over, the egg is snuffed, ready for the next cook.

There are different ways to get it done. It all boils down to getting your steaks as close to the hot coal as possible to accomplish that brown crust that adds flavor to the meat. I think your method burns much more lump than mine and I like not having to put my welding gloves on to move my platesetter. But... Whatever works for you is great. I have done 16 hour cooks and have never loaded coal above my fire box. After my last 16 hour cook i still had 25% of my lump left for my next cook. I accomplished that by reading Elder Ward's article about how to place lump in your fire box for a long, long low and slow burn at the nakedwhiz website. Egg on my friends and dine well.

There is a nice plot in "Modernist Cuisine" which shows the theoretical heat at different distances from the lump in a BBQ. One of the things it illustrates is that the heat is so intense near the lump that raising the food a couple of inches, as many grills do, has almost no effect on the intensity of the heat. Not a big fall off till the food is about as far away from the coals as the coals are wide. What Eggers call the felt line. The reverse, as you've learned is also true. Get down below the fire ring for a great sear.

Or - maybe bring the lump up? By accident I found the best reverse sear (for steak) was with a full firebox, lump piled high up to at least the middle of the fire ring, much like for a 12-14 hour cook. I guess this is similar to lowering the grid to the fire box. I do the "cook" indirect with a setter, 250-300 grid, then remove the setter and open the vents. The lump is very close to the grid sitting on the fire ring. Once the 2 minute sear is over, the egg is snuffed, ready for the next cook.

Very true! The reverse is also true...you can do a "raised direct" setup simply by lowering the level of the lump (using less).

Which came first the chicken or the egg? I egged the chicken and then I ate his leg wing.

There is a nice plot in "Modernist Cuisine" which shows the theoretical heat at different distances from the lump in a BBQ. One of the things it illustrates is that the heat is so intense near the lump that raising the food a couple of inches, as many grills do, has almost no effect on the intensity of the heat. Not a big fall off till the food is about as far away from the coals as the coals are wide. What Eggers call the felt line. The reverse, as you've learned is also true. Get down below the fire ring for a great sear.

I have that beautiful 6 book set of Modernist Cuisine too. My son bought it for me for Christmas 2 years ago. I've spent many hours studying it just for fun. It is an amazing accumulation of knowledge. Just show's what you can do when you're a billionaire with extra time on your hands. It has the most beautiful photography too. I disagree about the intensity of the heat having little effect by raising it just a few inches. The setup I describe above creates a difference of 5 inches of how close the meat is to the intense direct heat. The meat is 2" from the hot coal when you have your grid sitting right on top of your fire box. If you have your grid on top of the fire ring the meat will be searing 7" from the hot coal. There WILL be a difference in the outcome when done that way.

Yes... I think it is the absolute best website on the net for weekend backyard griller's that want to improve their skills and learn why things should be done a certain way to get the optimum results. Meaning tasty food. Meathead is very knowledgable and respected nationally by very accomplished chef's. He is an accomplished and published writer so he writes his information so that it is easily understood by the average guy. And... He is available to personally answer your questions if you are trying to do something you learned on his site and you're not sure how to pull it off. If I post a question for him on his site he usually answers me within an hour. I like being able to consult with a former Cordon Bleu professor before a major cook. And his catalog of recipes are fantastic!

I have experimented with sous vide and, while it does produce very tender meat, it just ain't what I like in the finished product after a quick sear on the grill to finish it up. The meat doesn't have the same flavor in the end. Reverse sear is something that I have only recently started playing around with and the results have been good so far. One of the better experiences I have had while experimenting with reverse sear techniques is to not do the first part of the cook directly on a grill grate. Set the meat on a piece of foil or in a light pan so the fat that does render stays with the meat.

Allow me to move you toward finding a reverse sear technic that works for you.

Thanks for the info... I'm gonna try something similar but I'll probably use two grills to do it. I have 'too many' grills around here and I could easily use one of the kamados to do the indirect portion of the cook and one of my smaller grills like the Weber Go-Anywhere to finish them off. That little grill is perfect for searing because the charcoal is already close to the grate. On a typical cooking day around here I'll have more than one grill going...

I didn't read ll that yet but I assume you are just talking for grilling steaks or something like that. It's similar but definitely not the same as SV. with SV you cook a steak at like 125 for a few hours then reverse sear. BUT, you can also cook a roast or ribs for 5 days and it will still be med rare and fork tender. Pretty crazy textures and flavors. The big difference to me comes in the more delicate, non fatty cuts like chicken breast and fish. You can safely cook them a far lower temps (like 147 for chicken breast) and it makes the texture and flavor sublime. Juice pours out of a fully cooked chicken breast and they are far more tender. None of this can be achieved without hours under pressure at lower temps. I Highly recommend SV cooking for many things.I don't do steaks that way much anymore but I wouldn't grill a chicken breast for anything. It's a game changer on certain foods that a reverse sear couldn't accomplish.

I didn't read ll that yet but I assume you are just talking for grilling steaks or something like that. It's similar but definitely not the same as SV. with SV you cook a steak at like 125 for a few hours then reverse sear. BUT, you can also cook a roast or ribs for 5 days and it will still be med rare and fork tender. Pretty crazy textures and flavors. The big difference to me comes in the more delicate, non fatty cuts like chicken breast and fish. You can safely cook them a far lower temps (like 147 for chicken breast) and it makes the texture and flavor sublime. Juice pours out of a fully cooked chicken breast and they are far more tender. None of this can be achieved without hours under pressure at lower temps. I Highly recommend SV cooking for many things.I don't do steaks that way much anymore but I wouldn't grill a chicken breast for anything. It's a game changer on certain foods that a reverse sear couldn't accomplish.

I got this from amazing ribs.com... They mentioned that the reverse sear is the redneck version of sous vide... There has been a lot of research done on the reverse sear method. Below... When he uses the term I, that is coming from Meathead Goldwyn, the owner and operator of the Amazingribs.com website.
History of the reverse sear
I am given a lot of credit for popularizing this cooking method, which may be true, but I should not be given credit for inventing it.
Nobody can be sure where the idea came from but Barry Yates at Winston Industries, a commercial foodservice device manufacturer, thinks the first to try the technique might have been sous vide pioneers in the 1970s, Dr. Bruno Goussault, Chef Georges Pralus (of Restaurant Troisgros in Roanne, France), or Chef Jean Banchet (of Le Francais in Chicago).
In the 1980s Winston introduced the CVap a humidity controlled oven to the restaurant trade. Set the temp for 120°F, crank the humidity to high, and load it with steaks. The meat can stay there for hours and never lose moisture and the meat is microbially safe after about two hours. When an order comes in, the steaks get tossed under a broiler or on a grill at super high heat to sear, and they are served sizzling.
Christopher Finney of the Iron Pig BBQ cooking team began playing with reverse sear "somewhere around 2003 to 2005" (about the same time I did). He spread the word on barbecue forums and I did not start writing about it until 2010 so he should get credit for teaching the barbecue world about reverse sear.
In 2007, J. Kenji López-Alt, currently at SeriousEats.com wrote about the technique in the November/December issue of Cook's Illustrated magazine in an article called "Perfect Pan-Seared Steaks".
"I first started playing with it a couple years before then when I wanted to get sous vide style results without a sous vide machine. I tried putting meat in a low oven and finishing it off on the grill or as pan and bam, it worked. I've since published all kinds of variations on it, for small cuts, roasts, poultry, burgers, grilled foods, vegetables, etc. It just works all around."

I didn't read ll that yet but I assume you are just talking for grilling steaks or something like that. It's similar but definitely not the same as SV. with SV you cook a steak at like 125 for a few hours then reverse sear. BUT, you can also cook a roast or ribs for 5 days and it will still be med rare and fork tender. Pretty crazy textures and flavors. The big difference to me comes in the more delicate, non fatty cuts like chicken breast and fish. You can safely cook them a far lower temps (like 147 for chicken breast) and it makes the texture and flavor sublime. Juice pours out of a fully cooked chicken breast and they are far more tender. None of this can be achieved without hours under pressure at lower temps. I Highly recommend SV cooking for many things.I don't do steaks that way much anymore but I wouldn't grill a chicken breast for anything. It's a game changer on certain foods that a reverse sear couldn't accomplish.

have you tried it for deep fried chicken, thats my worst cook, meats underdone and the outsides always burning

I didn't read ll that yet but I assume you are just talking for grilling steaks or something like that. It's similar but definitely not the same as SV. with SV you cook a steak at like 125 for a few hours then reverse sear. BUT, you can also cook a roast or ribs for 5 days and it will still be med rare and fork tender. Pretty crazy textures and flavors. The big difference to me comes in the more delicate, non fatty cuts like chicken breast and fish. You can safely cook them a far lower temps (like 147 for chicken breast) and it makes the texture and flavor sublime. Juice pours out of a fully cooked chicken breast and they are far more tender. None of this can be achieved without hours under pressure at lower temps. I Highly recommend SV cooking for many things.I don't do steaks that way much anymore but I wouldn't grill a chicken breast for anything. It's a game changer on certain foods that a reverse sear couldn't accomplish.

have you tried it for deep fried chicken, thats my worst cook, meats underdone and the outsides always burning

It's amazing. we did a chicken fried med rare ribeye too. Unreal. I had a med rare chicken fried beef rib done SV at a restaurant too. crazy good. It's by far the best way I've seen to do it. the chicken is perfect from tip to tail and pours out juice when you bite in. DO IT!

I i One of the things it illustrates is that the heat is so intense near the lump that raising the food a couple of inches, as many grills do, has almost no effect on the intensity of the heat. Not a big fall off till the food is about as far away from the coals as the coals are wide. What Eggers call the felt line. The reverse, as you've learned is also true. Get down below the fire ring for a great sear.

I have that beautiful 6 book set of Modernist Cuisine too. My son bought it for me for Christmas 2 years ago. I've spent many hours studying it just for fun. It is an amazing accumulation of knowledge. Just show's what you can do when you're a billionaire with extra time on your hands. It has the most beautiful photography too. I disagree about the intensity of the heat having little effect by raising it just a few inches.

I should have been a little more clear.Should not have said inches. Mhyrvold mentioned inches in an interview that was a run up to the MC release. Its more clear in MC that he was talking about how the infrared heat drops off by the inverse square. Here's my rule of thumb based on that. For med Eggs, the felt line is about 8" from the top of the fire box. The top of the fire ring is about 4" from the top of the fire ring, half the distance of the felt level. The temp should average about 2 times higher. If the grill can be placed 2" farther down, the heat doubles again, making it 4 times hotter. Down to 1" above the coals. 8 times hotter.

The kind of grill Mhyrvold was talking about seemed to be like some of the ones I had pre-Egg. Grill on low position, maybe 1 - 2 inches from the briquettes. Grill on high position, 3 - 4" Not enough to make a big difference. Hence the need to only put coals on one side of the grill to keep everything from burning.

I wish Mhyrvold would get an Egg. He has the $$ and the staff that could drill holes all over, and put a couple of dozen temp probes in, and get a good sample of the actual and not theoretical temperature profile.

"Yes... I think it is the absolute best website on the net for weekend
backyard griller's that want to improve their skills and learn why
things should be done a certain way to get the optimum results. Meaning
tasty food. Meathead is very knowledgable and respected nationally by
very accomplished chef's. He is an accomplished and published writer so
he writes his information so that it is easily understood by the average
guy. And... He is available"

Wow! As I've said, I've learned a lot from the site, as well as the stuff on his associate, Dr. Blonder's. But access for Q & A is even more outstanding.

Gdenby... Yes he is always available. I copied this post and sent it to him when I originally posted it this morning. Just to show him my appreciation for what he and his website has done to improve my cooking results. He answered my post on his website within 10 minutes and thanked me for helping promote his site. I told him promoting his site was not my intent that his site was the only resource I had to lean on to defend my position on the debate about the Trex method versus the Reverse Sear method. But it is nice to get him credit where credit is do though. A few days before Christmas this year I told him that my intent for Christmas day was to grill 2 full beef tenderloins at the same time and he instructed me how to pull it off. That's when he told me to make sure I had some beef love prepared before the cook. He is an awesome guy! Nice to have a true Master Chef to chat with about cooking... For free!

I didn't read ll that yet but I assume you are just talking for grilling steaks or something like that. It's similar but definitely not the same as SV. with SV you cook a steak at like 125 for a few hours then reverse sear. BUT, you can also cook a roast or ribs for 5 days and it will still be med rare and fork tender. Pretty crazy textures and flavors. The big difference to me comes in the more delicate, non fatty cuts like chicken breast and fish. You can safely cook them a far lower temps (like 147 for chicken breast) and it makes the texture and flavor sublime. Juice pours out of a fully cooked chicken breast and they are far more tender. None of this can be achieved without hours under pressure at lower temps. I Highly recommend SV cooking for many things.I don't do steaks that way much anymore but I wouldn't grill a chicken breast for anything. It's a game changer on certain foods that a reverse sear couldn't accomplish.

have you tried it for deep fried chicken, thats my worst cook, meats underdone and the outsides always burning

It's amazing. we did a chicken fried med rare ribeye too. Unreal. I had a med rare chicken fried beef rib done SV at a restaurant too. crazy good. It's by far the best way I've seen to do it. the chicken is perfect from tip to tail and pours out juice when you bite in. DO IT!

maybe by fall the prices will come down enough. i would do this just for good fried chicken

I haven't tried reverse sear but I will eventually. However, I've never not given foodgasams to my guests that I've grilled steaks for.

I season simple and cook it simple. Sear right over lump on my large with a CGS Spider and a small cast iron grid. Since I don't have to take my egg to volcano temps as I'm getting much more radiant heat, I get my egg to roasting temp very quick.

Not really in a hurry though since I nail my desired temp everytime and my technique ain't broke!

I didn't read ll that yet but I assume you are just talking for grilling steaks or something like that. It's similar but definitely not the same as SV. with SV you cook a steak at like 125 for a few hours then reverse sear. BUT, you can also cook a roast or ribs for 5 days and it will still be med rare and fork tender. Pretty crazy textures and flavors. The big difference to me comes in the more delicate, non fatty cuts like chicken breast and fish. You can safely cook them a far lower temps (like 147 for chicken breast) and it makes the texture and flavor sublime. Juice pours out of a fully cooked chicken breast and they are far more tender. None of this can be achieved without hours under pressure at lower temps. I Highly recommend SV cooking for many things.I don't do steaks that way much anymore but I wouldn't grill a chicken breast for anything. It's a game changer on certain foods that a reverse sear couldn't accomplish.

MMMmmm that looks really good Cazzy... You've got it nailed! How far from the hot lump is your meat in inches? I'm with you on the simple seasoning. Good choice or prime steaks don't need to be masked with spices and sauces. Select grades might benefit from a Bernaise sauce though.

The big difference to me comes in the more delicate, non fatty cuts like chicken breast and fish. You can safely cook them a far lower temps (like 147 for chicken breast) and it makes the texture and flavor sublime. Juice pours out of a fully cooked chicken breast and they are far more tender.

I will have to try chix breasts. For me, chicken breast meat is sort of what a vegan might offer me as a substitute for tofu. "For me? Why, you didn't have to. (really)"

MMMmmm that looks really good Cazzy... You've got it nailed! How far from the hot lump is your meat in inches? I'm with you on the simple seasoning. Good choice or prime steaks don't need to be masked with spices and sauces. Select grades might benefit from a Bernaise sauce though.

It really just depends on how much lump I throw in since the spider allows me to place my grid below the top of the fire ring.

Cazzy... Thanks for the picture. I like your set up. You are cooking with hot intense heat for the whole cook. I prefer to go low and slow for the first part of the cook until the interior temp is 110 degrees. Then I drop it down to about 2" from the red hot lump to finish the cook. Your method obviously works very well too. It really is nice to come on here and see how everyone does their cooks. Happy Egging and dine well...