Meanwhile, all your members who comment on this have known for weeks, from their posts and from the sources from which they were stolen, that Estis and Esche are the same person. Everyone but the moderators knows!

Whilst not wanting to dilute the issue, I think it is important for everyone to respect the site owners' response to these issues and let it rest.

Posters have a right to raise concerns and I am sure the owners respect and willingly encourage that. But once they have addressed the issues then I think one has to either accept their position or move on.

It seems this particular issue has been thoroughly advertised, and responded to, both openly here on the forum and privately with some members. Personally, I think that it is better to now just accept the situation and concentrate on the key purpose of this forum (and what it does exceedingly well, thanks to its membership) - addressing forex-related questions with particular regard to beginners' needs.

Let the owners do their thing, they have their agenda, methods and objectives. It is our role to live with it, and within it, regardless of whether it meets one's own ideals and preferences.

Just out of curiosity, I have been reading some other site forums, and I personally think that the overall moderation and control on this particular forum is impressive and effective. Maybe it is better to concentrate on building up what makes this site great rather than on magnifying the relatively few blemishes that irritate and destroy.

These kinds of discussions are necessary, but also rather negative and depressing. We are here to trade and talk about trading and learn about making profits.........its what we are, its what we do

I do feel the same as you all regarding these issues, whether it is trolls, copy/pastes, sales or just plain junk. But I think there comes a point where one has to accept that the owners have been made aware of them, and have acknowledged that these exist. Then after that one has to just accept that they have the right, as owners, to decide how and when they will deal with them, or not, as the case may be? I see little benefit in drawing up battle lines and winding up the emotive content involved.

The key attractiveness of this site is its community spirit and the feeling that one is communicating with genuine people with genuine interests and getting to know one another as individuals, albeit behind internet shields! Such a community should be free to raise such issues and expect a response, but ultimately must accept the line taken by the owners or move on. But, ultimately, the character and value of the community is created by its members, not by the owners. It is you, people, that make BP forum what it is - and you can, and do, create that with or without these interfering rogue postings.

The quality posts are still there.......somewhere (maybe just not quite so many)

I think you are all great and I really hurt to see such pained agonies over these issues from genuine, conscientious people.

I think there comes a point where one has to accept that the owners have been made aware of them, and have acknowledged that these exist.

They acknowledge a small minority of them, if enough people complain for long enough, loudly enough, and publicly as well as privately.

But without many people doing all that, it doesn't even get acknowledged at all.

Manxx:

Such a community should be free to raise such issues and expect a response, but ultimately must accept the line taken by the owners or move on

That's very reasonable.

People have been moving on for ages and ages.

Traffic, membership and posting are all reduced as a result, while other forums experience the exact opposite.

And still they won't listen.

Pipstradamus eventually acknowledged to me that Estis and Esche are probably the same person, but added "we have to treat those two users as two separate incidents and let the process play out. That's the policy and that's the plan going forward."

They apparently just don't understand that the fact that that's the plan going forward is what's producing the result that their members are leaving, posting is reduced, participation is reduced, and the place is increasingly becoming a laughing stock.

But how can they STILL not understand this, for so long? When generations of members (often on their way out to find other forums) have explained the exact same things to them. It defies all logic.

It's as frustrating as hell, anyway.

Partly, as you pointed out Manxx, because there is actually some valuable content here.

Congratulations and thanks to all who worked so unstintingly for so many weeks simply to achieve an outcome that in any other forum would have taken five minutes. I wonder how many more members were lost in exasperation while "the process worked out".

They apparently just don't understand that the fact that that's the plan going forward is what's producing the result that their members are leaving, posting is reduced, participation is reduced, and the place is increasingly becoming a laughing stock.

This is the heart of the matter.

They really don't understand that.

Personally, I think they probably don't even believe that it's so. They probably believe that the fact that so many people have been telling them exactly the same things for years is "all just a coincidence" or something. You couldn't be running a business and acknowledge the reality of that and just not do anything about it, could you?!

I think what lies behind all this never-ending stuff is that they really just don't acknowledge that it's all their decisions and "process" that's causing the slump in membership, posting and traffic.

Possibly, but I really hope not. That would not resolve anything and only create more discontent.

In any business today one key word is transparency. Customers are no longer content to just accept what is given.

I am convinced that the owners care about the quality of their forum and not just the volumes. To think otherwise would be out of context with the rest of this site and the investment they have made in it.

I still urge that you all give (even more) time for the owners to respond and explain their approach. That is the only decent way to do business nowadays and I am sure, having just invested in this new forum, the owners will explain more rather than simply shutting the door on you all - what could that possibly gain? But at present this thread is growing faster than they can even keep up with!

I am convinced that the owners care about the quality of their forum and not just the volumes. To think otherwise would be out of context

To be honest Manxx, thinking that is illogical. Volume drives traffic, traffic drives clicks, clicks drive potential leads, leads drive revenue? It's a underlying business model, just like trading. The owners don't necessarily have to take the members best interest in mind, just like trading unethical events with the potential to turn a profit?

A few straws and maybe a drizzle of eternal optimism? (others may call it näivity! )

Prior to its launch, the owners were so keen to advertise their new site and praised its benefits that we would experience with it when it eventually came.

They set up feedback threads so's we could post our comments on it. These comments were read and responded to.

In some areas the moderating has been swift and effective.

There has clearly been a moderating response to some language issues - even if not everyone agreed with how that was implemented!

There has been active monitoring of threads and rationalising the postings by transferring posts/threads to more suitable locations

These would not be evident if there was no interest in how the forum develops and how the threads are maintained. Evidently there has been some reactive and proactive action by the moderator team which has resulted in clearing up problems. In these instances, the complaint is now only how long it took to respond.

Personally, I think we are very lucky to have such a site available and I still feel, on balance, in total, it is a high quality product with a high quality customer base. It is good to keep in perspective that these irritating and annoying copy/paste type posts are only a small proportion of the total product here. Again, personally, I feel the far bigger threat is from the highly dangerous scamming and thinly disguised sales type posts that can lead to people losing serious money - but I think the comunity itself is also doing a fine job of highlighting these and flagging them.

But I am an eternal optimist and prefer to always hope for the best and be disappointed rather than focus on the worse and miss out on the good! So I do accept that I may well be totally off the map here...........

I understand and agree with what you are saying, but it is not illogical to think that the owners care about the quality of their forum. Afterall, it is the quality and the reputation that helps attract the customers that then produce the volume that...etc,etc. as you said......plus the customer stays longer, inputs more, and....attracts more customers. As you say, it a business model.

RISKonFX:

The owners don't necessarily have to take the members best interest in mind, just like trading unethical events with the potential to turn a profit?

No, they don't have to, but I think they see longer term benefits by doing so.

But, like profiting from unethical events, there are alternative ways of looking at things. For example, if your neighbour's house is burgled it is ok to "profit" from that by reviewing your own security arrangements, but it is a more questionable approach to try and profit by finding out where his stolen property might be disposed of so that you could buy some of it cheap? But maybe that is a bit too off the wall!

Possibly, but I really hope not. That would not resolve anything and only create more discontent.

I imagine it has stayed unlocked (for now) because of the references it contains to "threads being locked".

Undoubtedly the censorship exercised here against any and all members who dare to sound as if they're saying anything with the potential to be interpreted as criticizing the management is generally swift and relentless.

It's clear from reading this part of the forum that that's been a very longstanding issue, too.

Some former members from here comment elsewhere that they eventually got fed up with their posts (commenting on the lack of moderator-response) being deleted, and left. And I can now see why. I've also had posts deleted, and Quickly tells me has has, also. Many of them. But the spam/rubbish about which we've commented habitually isn't removed.

But people who make endless no-value posts, people who bump threads to make ridiculous, useless comments, people who steal content off the web and just paste it in - unless there's a hugely concerted campaign of commenting about it, privately AND publicly, for weeks: it's almost impossible to get those removed. You must see this, Manxx? It's not exactly an "isolated incident". It's the norm.

They just booted out "profitbaby" the other day, after how many years of incessant (fully justified) complaints about him?

How many people had to complain about Estis/Esche and for how long?

If you report posts that are stolen from the web and pasted in, and provide the moderators with a link to where the stolen content was stolen from, and three weeks later six or seven people are still discussing publicly the apparent impossibility of getting them removed from the forum, something's surely terribly wrong?

"Farcical" is the word Piperazine chose to describe this. I don't disagree.

I always respect your opinions, Manxx, but I don't really see how you get from there to "I am convinced that the owners care about the quality of their forum".

That feels a real leap of faith, to me, I hope you don't mind me saying!

Some former members from here comment elsewhere that they eventually got fed up with their posts (commenting on the lack of moderator-response) being deleted, and left. And I can now see why. I've also had posts deleted, and Quickly tells me has has, also. Many of them. But the spam/rubbish about which we've commented habitually isn't removed.

But people who make endless no-value posts, people who bump threads to make ridiculous, useless comments, people who steal content off the web and just paste it in - unless there's a hugely concerted campaign of commenting about it, privately AND publicly, for weeks: it's almost impossible to get those removed.

You guys have been let off lightly, too.

When I complained that the pasted-in posts were being protected, Pipstradamus told me straight out that if I thought that, I wasn't welcome here, and advised me to leave.

Just like people have said about this place, in other places.

It's BLATANT.

It's a superb example study of "How to create ill-will towards your business". That skill he has perfected.

If you report posts that are stolen from the web and pasted in, and provide the moderators with a link to where the stolen content was stolen from, and three weeks later six or seven people are still discussing publicly the apparent impossibility of getting them removed from the forum, something's surely terribly wrong?

I couldn't agree more.

The fact that anyone ever has to discuss it publicly at all is proof that something's terribly wrong.

For a whole group of people to have to do so for weeks, to get anyone to take any notice of them, is just ridiculous. It's worse than just ridiculous, in fact: it's offensive.

He wants me to go, and he's said so.

I'm staying until he bans me (in which case I'll quickly and prominently add my voice to those elsewhere) or until he damn well apologises to me for his behaviour. In public.