Re: Atheists and theists - Do good: we will meet one another - says the Pope.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaspah

Religion is so fcking stupid.

Religion is for weak minded individuals who can't fathom dying and need some sort of belief to not be terrified of death even though its inevitable for all of us.

I don't belong to any religion, I just live life as a polite man trying to get his own out here. I'm an animal, i will die in the future.

Religion is silly and unbelievable since there's so many of them. All you religious nuts, what do you say about the fact there's 50 other religions that have different beliefs, x amount of gods, and do all kinds of things different than you? You're saying your religion is real and there's isn't? I'm pretty sure they believe there religion is the real one and you're full of it.

Know what I think? You're all full of it. Believe in what you want and let others chive on, you can't keep doing this stupid religion vs religion bullish!t.

Wrong.

There are other reasons. And I'd wager that the one you stated is not even the primary one.

Re: Atheists and theists - Do good: we will meet one another - says the Pope.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JEFFERSON MONEY

Wrong.

There are other reasons. And I'd wager that the one you stated is not even the primary one.

But this tells us a lot about your internal psychology, Kaspah.

True. Those kind of atheists apparently can't see how they resemble the religious fundamentalists they hate so much. Radical atheist: "religion is for the week mindend" Religious fundie: atheism if for people without morals". Both intolerant douchebags.

Re: Atheists and theists - Do good: we will meet one another - says the Pope.

I dont need to believe in magic people looking down on me to do charity. And the world wouldnt either. There are plenty of good people who do good things without a book telling them to and im not crediting a book for that goodness inside them nor taking the credit from them for what they do.

MY grandma was a sunday school teacher as ive said before. Did a lot in the community. Worked with kids from like...the 30s on. You could credit what she did to her faith. But then...when I do some of the same things....what do I credit that to?

Some people are raised to help others. Some do it just for publicity. It gets done either way.

This world is full of people who dont seem to know what to do with themselves so they look for outside sources to set a path.

Its a weakness to me. It helps some. It leads some to....blow up children.

Overall I dont think its doing more good than harm.....unless you want to credit all goodness done by someone of faith to that faith.

And I just dont buy it. Good things dont require god forcing you to do it.

Re: Atheists and theists - Do good: we will meet one another - says the Pope.

Our first thought concerning religion in general seems to be based on the belief of a supernatural reality of human morality.

We tend to focus on the bad things of it because in the end, the main focus of religion in general is to influence human behavior.
It's not in our nature to obey commands or to accept changes in our natural behavior without first understanding the rewards or retributions attached to those commands.

So in the end, people tend to choose to be influenced by what they 'feel' attuned with. Some grow up with religion, some adopt it, and some are forced to adopt it. Others reject any concept of a spiritual reality and rather choose to live by the known natural laws.

Those who grow up religious, continue to be religious for several reason but mainly we could call this 'tradition'. Those who adopt religion change their moral identity or worldview. Those who reject a religion based on the supernatural adopt a religion based on faith on the human potential for perception and analysis. Either way, all people have some sort of law governing their lives.

So a question comes up: Is religion mankind's creation, or is the source found in another reality? or both? or none?

If religion is a reflection of humanity's expression, then religion is not the cause of the "good" or "bad" in the world, but only the filter through which those expressions are conveyed. And if religion goes beyond the natural reality we live in, then we would have to consider the possibility of a supernatural reality that may be an influence behind those subjective concepts.

We couldn't blame the evil in the world on something before defining 'evil' through a specific parameter.

A forced conclusion of this topic would be to understand that ethics and religion always go together. No matter the object of worship, whether it be a spiritual being, an object, a creature, an idea, or humanity itself, mankind has always remained a being with a nature for worship.

Pope Francis, with the intention of rescuing the image of his institution, makes the mistake of compromising some of the most central beliefs of Christianity, and even some central dogmas of the Catholic church.

Quote:

The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone! And this Blood makes us children of God of the first class! We are created children in the likeness of God and the Blood of Christ has redeemed us all! And we all have a duty to do good.

It sounds nice, "tolerant and accepting", but that is heresy. Why identify yourself as a follower of the gospel of Jesus Christ that speaks about repenting from sin, and accepting the work done at the cross through the redemptive sacrifice in the death and resurrection of Jesus, if in the end you are going to deny the very essence of the faith?

The word of the apostle Paul says in the letter to the Galatians: "in Christ Jesus you are children of God through faith". What faith? The faith in Jesus Christ as the savior of the world from sin and death. Also in the letter to Romans: "those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God." Atheist don't believe in things like spirits or God. Then how can they be 'led' by the Spirit of God' or be 'children of that God'? It clearly says 'those who are led', so it infers a fraction or selection, not "all" as the Pope would like to say.

It's easy to contrast the simple and widely available scripture to those statements made by the Pope.
Yes. We have a duty to do good, but if we don't have a standard or measurement to define that 'good', then everyone will do what they 'feel' or 'think' is good.
In the scripture we have that standard in the person of Jesus Christ. His example is real because he lived among the sinners of his time but didn't condemn them, instead he drew them to him with his words of forgiveness.
That's why Pope Francis' message, even if it sounds nice and accepting, is based on error and not on the teachings of Christ. Jesus loved and taught about the kingdom of heaven, but also warned about the condemnation reserved for those who didn't accept him. Instead, Pope Francis wants to hide the consequences that denying Christ as Lord will bring to unbelievers. There is no accountability in his message. But God is a God of justice, and no evil deed will go unpunished. God is a God of holiness, and no unrepentant or sinful being can come to his presence.

I believe history has taught us that neither governments, nor any human law or moral standard has been able to bring that peace that the Pope would like us to believe can be obtained. There's always gonna be conflict as long as different worldviews are around. Throughout history, religious discrimination or persecution has also occurred, and it also won't stop people from believing what they want to believe. Religion will never be the answer, but Jesus Christ came to fulfill the works of the perfect religion, so that those who believe in his words, could become the children of God, not because of the works required by a religion but through faith in that perfect work done by Jesus, by the grace freely offered by God.
Now, that is a more welcoming and accepting offer than what Pope Francis would like to come up with. It's free! If God puts conviction in your heart then you take that offer and the work of God begins to change your behavior from a life of dispassionate religious observance to a life that is lived for others because you know that someone already lived, died, and lives for you too. That is the peace religion and the world cannot offer.

Re: Atheists and theists - Do good: we will meet one another - says the Pope.

The ironic thing is that ALL mainstream religions were originally conceived as methods to control the minds of the masses. Judging from this thread, thousands of years later -- in some cases -- its still working like a charm.

The bottom line is that there is zero evidence of an all-knowing, all-seeing, omnipotent entity who is interested in being intimately involved in every individual's life. None. It doesn't exist.

The actual history of the planet, and mankind's existence on it is the great untold secret that is being kept from us.

Needless to say, its obvious that the real history is completely different from what we're being fed. If it wasn't, there would be no need for organized religions at all.

Re: Atheists and theists - Do good: we will meet one another - says the Pope.

It works like a charm. I amazes me at times how little progress humans have made.

Even when its obvious someone is full of shit people will follow them.

Scientology...

Founded by a science fiction writer...who said the best way to make money is to found a church.

So...he writes that the dark lord Xenu....trapped some of his people in earths volcanoes(then known as Teegeeack) and blew them up with atomic bombs.

And the souls of these aliens infected the young human race....and must be filtered out now. And the training and filtering...costs thousands of dollars.

Scientologists know this.

And accept it.

Mormons(very nice people for the record).....know Joseph Smith claims to have met a native american angel who...explained that humanity started in what...Jackson Mississippi? Gave him a new book(which he had to make 2 versions of when someone took the first to see if he could write it again.....seeing as god gave him the info...why not give it again) to add to the bible. Claimed Jesus came to america. Other wacky things.

So over the years....the american south is the cradle of life, black people bear the mark of cain and thus cant be preists in their church, and so on.

Rastafarians believe that this guy:

Was god himself. And wants them to get high.

Members of the nation of islam(some of which I am not proud to say...I am related to) believe that 6 thousand years ago a scientist named Yakub created white people in some evil plot to rule blacks.

People have been convinced that the sun is being pulled through the sky by a chariot, alien souls are why we get sad, and that a guy lived in the belly of a whale, the red sea was parted, a donkey talked to his owner, and that a loving god sent bears to murder 42 children for mocking a bald guy.

How...in this day...it manages to be accepted....is beyond me.

I get how you could fool someone a few thousand years ago. They couldnt look into these things. They couldnt get a good look at the sun...or go see what the moon is....they believe what they are told.

Fine.

This is 2013.

But you can still convince people that an alien warlord 75 million years ago is the reason for human emotional problems. Even though the guy claiming it...is a science fiction writer out to make money.

You believe there is a god? Fine. I dont know how the universe came to be. The big bang doesnt account for the matter that banged and there is no logical way to explain it through science.

But if you believe that books written(or at least heavily edited for political reasons in the case of the bible) by man explain this inconceivably powerful beings desires or paints an accurate history of our planet...you...are probably a ****ing idiot. Or choose to believe the basics and disregard the specifics(which are almost always absurd).

Or in the case of many just have it so drilled into you that you accept it without question in cult like fashion.

People are being murdered daily over this nonsense.

And there is no end in sight. Its been spread for thousands of years by murderers using god to justify conquest of "savages" and its reached every corner of the globe.

I bet in another thousand years scientology will have 20 million members or more and the specifics of its founding will be so long ago people wont even remember to make fun of it. It will be...insensitive.

Never mind that people with common sense know its bullshit.

Its their protected right to believe it...and force it onto their children so it spreads.

Thats what most of this is at this point.

Scientology 2 thousand years from now when there are endless generations pounding it into the heads of children until the people against it are made out to be the idiots.

If Scientology came out 3 thousand years ago I bet a billion people are laughing at people who dont believe in it. That or having us killed as has so often been the way of the religious when faced with people who disagree.

Re: Atheists and theists - Do good: we will meet one another - says the Pope.

My sister and my mom are two of the people I respect most living in this world right now... They are brilliant women..

but it always amazes me when they switch over to religious talk. "God did this", and "God did that"... "leave it in God's hands".. It is so weird to see smart people turn on a dime and talk like that. People who are very rational thinking and methodical people turn on a dime and believe this stuff? it boggles my mind everytime I hear it.

I have had these conversations with them, but I just hold my tongue most of the time, just so I dont feel like Im beating up on them..