Skinning murder unique, expert testifies

A State witness, forensic psychologist professor Dap Louw, testified in the Free State court that he could not find in research records another case that involved the skinning of a victim's face.

Van Heerden, 20, has pleaded guilty to and been convicted of luring Michael van Eck, 23, to the Welkom cemetery where he was killed and dismembered in April.

Some of his remains were found in a shallow grave at the cemetery, while other body parts were found in a fridge, including his facial skin, eyes and ears.

Other body parts were found in a cupboard and in the garden of the house where Van Heerden lived.

The case against her co-accused, Maartens van der Merwe, 24, was separated on Monday. He will undergo further evaluation and his trial resumes in Febrary next year. He has not entered a plea yet.

Louw said a crime involving the "skinning" of a victim's face was locally unheard of and even rare internationally.

"The uniqueness of this case must be mentioned," he said.

Louw said he looked up thousands of resources at the University of the Free State and talked to three international experts on the character of the crime.

"Mutilation of the body is not rare in crimes but the way the skinning [of the victim’s face] happened was unique."

Wouldn't take a chance

Louw, who interviewed both the accused and their families, said Van Heerden was the typical "girl next door" who was very pleasant and truthful.

Asked in cross-examination by Van Heerden's lawyer Leona Smit whether she would do kill again, Louw indicated he was not sure.

"I do not know, but I would not take a chance."

He told the court Van Heerden was a unique person who still had "out of body" experiences to meet Van der Merwe at secret places.

He indicated he never met someone where the difference between the observable person and the inner person, who was linked to an abominable act, was so big.

The court was told Louw could not reach a convincing diagnosis which classified Van Heerden as a psychopath.

Louw agreed that Satanism played no role and that Van Heerden herself in a "scornful" manner dismissed the Satanism link to the murder as "nonsense".

He nevertheless agreed with State prosecutor Johan de Nysschen that the murder and "skinning" of the victim was not a single criminal incident.

Louw said the nearest his diagnosis took him was to a rarely known psychotic disorder called "shared psychotic disorder".

He said Van Heerden and Van der Merwe were caught in a Bonnie and Clyde relationship which drove each other to a murder.

"These two people are sick, yes. These two people made each other far more sicker than... they would have been on their own."

Trial runs

The court also heard that Satanism and pure occult practises played no role in the graveyard murder of Van Eck.

Occult crimes expert Dr Kobus Jonker testified that the two accused at most had experimented with Satanism and occult rituals.

He said a list of items found to be used in the murder and the absence of many other signs and symbolic items were reasons that these practises were only experimented with.

Jonker agreed with De Nysschen that "Satanism could be put to bed" in the matter.

The police's head of psychology Brigadier Gerard Labuschagne testified that Van Heerden should be managed as a serial murderer.

He testified that various aspects were present that would indicate that Van Eck’s murder was a "psychologically motivated crime".

This include "trial runs" on animals, the bodily trophies that was removed and taken home.

He said a further concerning aspect was "collateral evidence" that was found at the accused's home such as books about well known American serial killer Richard Ramirez and other serial killers.

Others books found in her house included True Crimes: Lady Killers and True Crimes: Serial Killers and Mass Murderers and The world's greatest serial killers.

The court was adjourned to Wednesday.

Comments

Janice - 2011-11-22 22:46

waarnatoe gaan die mensdom rerig?

Jack - 2011-11-22 23:34

mensdom become "dom mense". In the end both will be treated in mental institutions because of non comparitive other cases. Spare a thought for the victims family, who will be reminded of this gruesome images for a long time.

emile.marais - 2011-11-23 00:24

Ek dink ons almal is op 'n baie skrikwekende pad na hel.

Randomhero6661 - 2011-11-23 13:31

I don't believe in that hell per say...(don't judge) but we are all going down...

Yar - 2011-11-23 06:00

Death Penalty is the only answer.
There is no possible value in keeping this scum alive, housed and fed for the next 60 odd years. They are too sick to keep alive.

jody.beggs - 2011-11-23 08:04

@Yar and what's that going to prove ?
You need to find a way to treat them so in the future , people like this can be treated in a way to better their lives....
Society and their parents are more to blame , its easy just to get rid of them mentally ill , keep them locked away ...
But is that a real solution ?

Yar - 2011-11-23 11:44

@Jody
I am not quite sure I understand you. You say "You need to find a way to treat them so in the future , people like this can be treated in a way to better their lives.... "
I don't believe that there is any way to treat a person who kills another and then carefully cuts their face off to keep as a souvenir. Please someone as criminally insane as this, cannot ever be let loose on society ever again. Even the psychologist has stated that they may kill again.
Why would you think that anything other than locking them away PERMANENTLY would ensure the safety of the public.
Then if you have to lock them away until the day they die, is this not the most inhumane thing? This would be the worst type of sentence.
I favour the death penalty for the following reasons:
1 It sets an example to anyone who might think of dabbling in this type of activity.
2 It is cost effective.
3 There will be NO repeat offence.
I believe it is a real solution.

jody.beggs - 2011-11-23 12:49

Dude its a disease of the brain and really bad parenting its like being pissed of at a hippo for killing someone ?
With medication she could have led a more normal life but now its to late.
Its easy to judge after the fact but what good does that do ?
Killing someone is never a solution , just look at history ?

nasheenar - 2011-11-23 13:00

Jody.beggs are you serious. Treat them? What about the person that lost his life and was dismembered.His face saved as a prize. Perhaps you will feel something for the victim and his familly if such a fate was bestowed on a member of your family. I agree with Yar bring back the death penality. This waste to society should not be kept alive.

Randomhero6661 - 2011-11-23 13:46

@Jody The hippo statement is way out of context. Seriously!? I do try teach my dog to speak but he just doesn't want to... I wonder why?
She is sick she is 20 and she deserves the same fate as her victim.
Ever thought if the victim was related to you...
and you say with medicine she could have been treated before this happened...
Are you trolling or are you way out of touch?
i agree with Yar!!!

Linda - 2011-11-23 06:16

jA NE, DIE MENSE IS MAL!! I DONT UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE ACT THIS WAY!!

Joe-Moer - 2011-11-23 06:40

Most of the comments here are really ignorant and come from an inner fear. These two people are obviously psychologically ill and should therefore be treated in a mental institution for the rest of their lives.
Saying they should get the death penalty does not say much for you as a human. This isolated case does not also mean that the human race is now on a downward spiral to hell, lol.

jody.beggs - 2011-11-23 08:15

@Joe-Moer .
I fully agree , its a typical response to either blame Satan , but if you do that you need to blame his creator as-well or to get rid of them in shocking conditions(excuse the pun) , locked away in a personal hell.
Rather help them and in the future you stand a better chance of helping more people like them.
Shun them , abuse them , ignore them in a mental institution is what would normally happen and that will just make things worse ...
Damn the man , Save the mentally ill !

jody.beggs - 2011-11-23 09:28

@Caucasian so you think killing is normal !
You advocate it ?
Why does that not make you a psycho ?

jody.beggs - 2011-11-23 09:41

@Caucasian and if a child under 18 does something similar , would you want to kill them too ?
This case is unique but its not completely different from other disturbing behavior so the main work has been done .
You sound like Hitler , just kill it , make it go away !
Career criminals should be should be terminated ! When there is no chance of reform !

jody.beggs - 2011-11-23 10:56

@Mandy.
Its really sad that the victim was murdered in the way he was !
But you can see their is a problem with there minds by the heinous crime they committed !
Do you really think they wanted to end up in a mental institution ? I really don't think they wanted to "Get the easy life" , they are just f'd up(badly)!
We need to know why they committed these crimes , what where they thinking and feeling and use any information gained to try and find more people with the same kind of issues.
Murder is not a solution here after all where do you stop once its started !

jody.beggs - 2011-11-23 11:26

@Caucasian.
How far down the rabbit hole have we gone that we advocate murder ?
Its a slippery slope that we can't come back from.
Yes , they are murderers , sick , twisted , will probably never fit into society , but is it not possible the society is part of the problem ?
If it were my son , I probably would want to kill them as-well , make them suffer but I would have stooped to their level and I would be no better.

ronald.stilianou - 2011-11-23 12:29

jody.beggs - I would really like to hear what you have to say if/when something like this happens to someone very close to you.

Marion - 2011-11-23 12:48

Part of me supports the death penalty and part of me doesn't because I would not be prepared to be the executioner and do not feel I have a right to expect someone else to do it. However, I disagree with you @jody.beggs that these people are necessarily seriously mentally ill or just cold-blooded killers. I say they don't deserve help except to help them be incarcerated for the rest of their natural lives. Help the families of their victims to come to terms with this horror and maybe those families won't be tempted to go out and kill someone to take revenge. Personally, don't even know why this was raised: "Asked in cross-examination by Van Heerden's lawyer Leona Smit whether she would do kill again, Louw indicated he was not sure." Once is enough and the sick nature of this murder doesn't deserve anything but the ultimate price. A life for a life even if that only means incarceration forever.

jody.beggs - 2011-11-23 12:52

@ronald.stilianou who says it hasn't ?
But is it right to take revenge by murdering something that doesn't know better ?

Gail - 2011-11-23 12:58

You know keeping them in a mental institution for the rest of their lives would allow the psychologists to study and experiment with different medications under controlled circumstances to find out how to diagnose people like this earlier and how to prevent them from passing on their defective genes. Use them for testing medical cures for other illnesses such as AIDS and TB and Cancer. Instead of calling them animals use them as various industries use mice and animals. At least they would serve a purpose this way. I feel deeply sorry for their families as well as the victim since this girl sounds so like a serial killer. Perhaps the parents should also be involved in research to establish how she was raised to become the girl next door/serial killer. Surely her parents must have noticed some odd signs while she was growing up?

jody.beggs - 2011-11-23 13:02

@Marion we only know after the fact , after they went to far.
If caught earlier this might not have happened , we help people with other disabilities but they are easier to diagnose.
Or should we just start not helping curtain people like hobo's , down's syndrome kids , paraplegics or everyone that doesn't fit in society ?
Look into the childhood and you'll see clear signs !
Why where they missed ?

Yar - 2011-11-23 13:05

@Gail
At last someone who talks sense.
Don't know why I didn't think of that.

Christo - 2011-11-23 15:48

@ Caucasian
There is no such thing as calculated murder with conscience, if you kill them you making yourself guilty of the same base needs. I do not think Jody.beggs for a second says these people are not guilty, should not be punished or set free. Also killing people is in no way a deterrent for future crimes there are MANY studies done on this and the death penalty do not lower murder rates. Based on USA stats a person on death row cost the goverment a lot more than someone who is jailed for life so the cost benefit doesn't fit here either. Also can you make absolutely sure that when you have the death penalty that no innocent person will ever get killed? And when you do what does that make the society who approved, murderers? She has no guilt because she is probably a psychopath, the same as 1% of the world population. Should we test everyone and lock that 1% all up?

There is only one label I can think of for this woman - One Nasty Little Bitch!

jody.beggs - 2011-11-23 08:17

You see it is a societal problem , we are brain washed to not care about other peoples problems....
I wonder how many people called her "One Nasty Little Bitch" until she really snapped !
Its always easier to point and ridicule but remember how many finders are pointing back !

jody.beggs - 2011-11-23 12:32

@Mandy your lack of sympathy worries me !
If their parents took more notice and had them committed , would this have happened ?
There must have been serious signs before this happened !
Why were they ignored ?

Marion - 2011-11-23 12:55

@jody - I am classified as having a mental disease due to my extreme bouts of depression. That doesn't mean I am going to lure someone to a violent death where I am going to skin him and dismember him to get my kicks. Even if mentally ill deserve to be in a straight jacket. How many people would they need to kill before you feel it is okay to lock them away and forget about them forever? I have no doubt that many shrinks etc., will interview them and analyze their behaviour to try and understand it and thus help someone into the future. They do not deserve that kind of help.

nasheenar - 2011-11-23 12:57

Hey Jody, its your sympathy people question. Have you spared a thought for the man that lost his life???????????????????????????????????????
Have you spared a thought for his mother and father??????????? You sound a bit like a Psychopath yourself.

Randomhero6661 - 2011-11-23 14:02

Societal, nasty, mental issues, point fingers...what the f@ck are you brain dead? ... weh weh weh weh F@cking weh!!!
There is no sympathy for her she does not deserve it nor her compatriot.
@jody maybe you should consult the hippo! (not the quote one) he will have a solution to your problem!

jody.beggs - 2011-11-23 20:18

@Randomhero6661.
Nice debate , it always shows class when you revert to insults !
Will you pull the switch that kills these people ?
Are you really any different ?

Hannetjie - 2011-11-23 07:33

I agree people who commit deeds like these are sick but putting them in an institution means that tax payers like me and you will be paying for their wellbeing for years. There is also a chance that they can be released on 'good behavior' and then they are back in the community where you and I live with no guarantee they won't do it again.

Jacqueline - 2011-11-23 07:41

The scarier part is that not all psychopaths are ciminally insane, but they are largely rational and sane. More often than not, their sense of what is right and what wrong is distorted which is due to a number of contributing factors but you cannot classify someone as insane or nuts without clinical studies.

Bianca - 2011-11-23 08:26

I can not fathom that people can be so sick in the head. Looking at the childhood photos of Micheal on Facebook I am reminded that I have to teach my own two boys about the real monsters that exist in the world :(

Dirk - 2011-11-23 08:33

As it becomes more and more difficult to make a living and people become more disillusioned for the prospect of a better life or circumstance in the future this will become more common.Look at the people involved. Usually already struggling to make a living and will grasp at anything that offers salvation. Hence like the Lotter case where they claim it was God's will and here where they allegedly had outer body experiences. Humanity is on the fast track to total self destruction.

Barefoot - 2011-11-23 08:53

Clearly the expert has never read dailysun TIA, there is no unique here

Cathy - 2011-11-23 14:15

@barefoot clearly not, he should start reading that paper and he'll see that there's nothing unique with this case.

Hanlie - 2011-11-23 09:27

This was so alarming to read but underscores the research done by Sue Palmer about the Toxic Childhood Syndrome that our children find themselves in today. Children are unable to show empathy and sympathy and lives in a constant state of stress due to what they see on television. Zelna Louwrens, a SA teacher, did research about this in South Africa after working in the UK and created programmes to detoxify our children. Visit www.equalzeal.com for more information. This is serious and we need to address this as a community in order to keep our children emotionally and mentally healthy.

Hanlie - 2011-11-23 09:49

This was so alarming to read but underscores the research done by Sue Palmer about the Toxic Childhood Syndrome that our children find themselves in today. Children are unable to show empathy and sympathy and lives in a constant state of stress due to what they see on television. Zelna Louwrens, a SA teacher, did research about this in South Africa after working in the UK and created programmes to detoxify our children. This is serious and we need to address this as a community in order to keep our children emotionally and mentally healthy.

PilgrimX - 2011-11-23 10:27

"a rare criminal act" - but, it is happening in SA.

Olivia - 2011-11-23 10:36

How ignorant can you be. Read up on satanism, speak to old satanists this is typicall of a possessed person who's into satanism, small scale or not.

Mildly_Amused - 2011-11-23 12:58

No :/
This is typical of a criminally insane person.
And I'd say that many criminally insane people were devout followers of what we'd call "conventional" religions - i.e. Christianity, Islam, Judaism etc. If your brain is broken, it's broken - regardless of who you pray to.

Richard - 2011-11-23 10:50

You live by the sword...

jody.beggs - 2011-11-23 10:58

For anybody who advocates murder , shame on you and if your Christian I hope you rot in Hell for the thought of murder.
Using your logic alcohol abusers , should be taken out of society too. The are unpredictable , violent , often kill people under the influence, fornicate and worse , but that's ok , because its self inflicted and seen as the norm!
This Chick can't control herself either ? She has a problem that stems from her parents and childhood or a chemical imbalance out of her control without medication.
Which is the greater of the 2 evils ?

Cindy - 2011-11-23 11:34

Whilst not agreeing with all your sentiments expressed above Jody I do have to agree that killing this young lady would be wrong in many, many ways. Serial killers can no more control their actions than we can control the tides. In order to be able to help future generations before they reach this point we need to understand the origin of the behavior.... how do we do that? Study people like this, don't kill them..... Total aside, if the books she had are some sign of her guilt, God help me if some-one I know dies a weird death ...... I have any number of serial killer studies at home!

Yar - 2011-11-23 12:05

@ Jody
I have read your comments and I seriously think that your opinion is somewhat misaligned.
The murderers have committed the most heinous and disgusting crimes and you are making excuses for her; "problem stems from her childhood...chemical imbalance...I wonder how many people called her "One Nasty Little Bitch" until she really snapped !......societal problem...".
Jody - get real, these are dangerous, worthless, insane, murderous vipers. Putting them down is really the only option.

jody.beggs - 2011-11-23 12:42

@Yar. I agree they are dangerous , but not normal , THEY HAVE A MENTAL INEFFICIENCY !
Think of it as Downs syndrome kid that got connected to the wrong crowd.
She didn't know better , her parents are more at fault and if you don't see that there's no hope for you.
If this is the attitude for all cases of murder then I glad the death penalty is not available !
I mean this chic had body parts in her fridge , buried part of Michael next to her house !
What good will killing either of them do ?

Marion - 2011-11-23 13:00

@cindy... if serial killers cannot control their behaviour how do they manage to control it to the point that even their spouses and children do not realise that they are so depraved? Some of them don't kill for months and years between their killing sprees. That shows a level of control to me during which time THEY could seek help for themselves. I mentioned earlier that I also have books on serial killers so, like you, I say God help me if someone I know dies a weird death...

Mildly_Amused - 2011-11-23 13:01

I actually agree with you...
"You cannot kill what you did not create."
We have absolutely no say in whether a person should die or not.
"Many that live deserve death, but some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo?"

nasheenar - 2011-11-23 13:02

Shut the hell up. Seriously you're an ass. Cursing other people to burn in hell but sympathetic to cold blooded murderes. YOU! is whats wrong with society.

Yar - 2011-11-23 13:09

@Jody
I (and nobody else) is getting through to you.
Downs syndrome patients are loving and harmless. They are not guilty and they are not dangerous.
DON'T YOU EVER COMPARE THESE FILTHY KILLERS TO DOWNS SYNDROME CHILDREN THAT IS AN INSULT.
What good will execution do? --- A lot. Trust us. Everyone, bar a few agree.

Cindy - 2011-11-23 15:23

@ Marion try reading Resslers books "Into the Abyss" and others (also Mikkie Pistorius), the impulses (in some serial offenders) are cyclic in nature so don't require "control' until the cycle has completed its span. Also remember that serial killers 9organised) are normally psychopaths and well organised psychopaths blend in by virtue of their "normality", which is why many of them can be successful in the corpoarte world (Now thats a scary thought!) I think you are thinking more in terms of organised SK's when you wonder how they keep it from family/friends, guys like Dahmer just can't keep it together to be long-term, he spun out of control and that led to his capture BUT he was a disorganised.... fanscinating people SK's

jody.beggs - 2011-11-23 20:21

@Yar Wow....
DON'T YOU EVER COMPARE THESE FILTHY KILLERS TO DOWNS SYNDROME CHILDREN THAT IS AN INSULT.
I didn't mean to insult children but its the only way to make you visualize what they were or could be if found in time ?
Why the blood lust ?
What happened in your passed ?

Yar - 2011-11-24 06:05

@Jody
Nothing untoward has happened in my past. (not passed)
I have known Downs syndrome kids and they are beautiful people. Innocent and trusting. Honest and genuinely filled with love.
I have also know a fellow who was a worthless arrogant delinquent as a teenager. Brought up with no boundaries being set, and no limitations on his behaviour. Loving parents who gave him everything. He became obsessed with firearms and shot a shopkeeper. He was declared insane and sent to Weskoppies. The manipulative spoilt brat started a romantic affair with his psychologist. After treatment she declared him well and he was released but instructed keep up his anti-psychotic medication. After a while his new (psychologist) girlfriend tired of his behaviour and threatened to leave him. He responded by shooting her and himself.
He should have been exterminated after his first offence.
These people are intelligent and manipukative. If you ever think that they can be cured, you are fooling yourself.

Marion - 2011-11-23 11:38

Scary that they read books on serial killers and then turned to this sort of thing. I have read books on serial killers and love watching Forensic Detectives and all those kinds of programmes but God knows I would never resort to something like that. Bit like saying that Slipknot was a major influence in that youngster's life when he attacked others with a samurai sword. Many fans of Slipknot have not resorted to such behaviour. This case has probably turned my stomach more than any other I have ever heard of because these are just youngsters and look like butter wouldn't melt in their mouths. Consecutive life sentences without option of parole. Let them spend the rest of their natural lives in prison and may their natural lives be ended in similar fashion to Jeffrey Dahmer's.

Device - 2011-11-23 12:27

There is something in a women's nature that just seems to elicit compassion and sympathy especially from men. I can guarantee you that had the perpetrator been a man no one would of cared that he looks like the boy next door because deep inside we all believe that the boy next door is capable of such heinous crimes since he is a Male after all. Perhaps the court should have looked for a female expert who might have been able to better see through the perpetrators skillful manipulation. I am not trying to be sexist but I honestly believe that the world we live in is one in which young women are constantly portrayed as pure, fragile and incapable of committing cruel crimes. Thus when one is found guilty of this she can easily use that stereotype of fragility to wiggle her way out of a tight situation. R.I.P to the victim.

Toni-Catherine - 2011-11-23 12:53

This is just so sick! I hope these two people find theri fate soon. Its is caculated and disgusting that people can to to a point where they skin another human being. I am shocked

Charlotte - 2011-11-23 12:54

if you read this mans facebook wall - you will see how malicious and premeditated this was - they both should be locked up forever...
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1292344699&sk=wall

Marion - 2011-11-23 13:07

I looked as you suggested and see that he reckons he was 'searching the world to find his mind'... wonder if he found it in that graveyard.

Charlotte - 2011-11-23 14:24

@ marion
i cant imagine what he was thinking...

andrea.slater - 2011-11-23 14:49

I dunno... she's friends with him there and she seems normal. He seems a bit whacky but she seems really normal... and she's a talented artist. Such a shame.

Jaco - 2011-11-23 14:18

Looking at some of the information on Facebook pages of those that are accused, I find it strange that they experts would "put Satanism to bed".
If you dabble in the music that these two listened to, watched the films and series that they watch and follow after the religious views that they pursue it is to be expected that this would be the outcome. Many people don't realise it, but there is a lot more going on in the spiritual realm than people give credit for. Bands like Slayer are honoring demons through their music and these also get legal rights to access the listeners of this music. Mentioning scyzophrenia and psychotic disorders as a reason for their behavior is a nice way to explain to science how these demons work within these people. Just my two cents...

andrea.slater - 2011-11-23 14:37

this story made me incredibly sad... We never heard stories like this when I was a kid... fifteen years on and we've got seventy-five different types of serial killers on the loose... very very sad.

Lee - 2011-11-23 15:17

My word......... I wonder how she enjoyed Biology at school. She probably couldn't wait for the lesson going by what I am reading. Sick sick sick.

berylwa - 2011-11-23 15:43

At the end of the day it comes down to nature versus nurture. If 50% is genetic, then the first thing we need to do is remove the gene pool that is creating these monsters. Sterilise both of them immediately for starters! Whilst this trial goes on, both are capable of making another generation of sadistic killers that normal society will not understand, let alone find a means of treating with 100% efficiency. Then, the parents need to be tried in some form of social court for the part they played (or didn't play?)in nurturing such fine young people!

annie.kalahari - 2011-11-24 07:57

'Skinning sacrifices' are widely recorded in the historic literature of South American Indian cultures and many books have been written about this over the years. There was for instance the sacrifice and skinning of the daughter of the king Cóxcox of Culhuacán; the founding of Tenochtitlan. The girl's skin then was 'worn' by the residing priest. It's perhaps a good idea to find out what books this person may have been reading? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenochtitlan

annie.kalahari - 2011-11-24 08:08

How's this for a human sacrifice - in South Africa: in 2011? This pregnant woman was kidnapped from Lesotho during the maize harvest: her foetus was removed WHILE SHE WAS ALIVE: her nails, eyes and tongue removed and her blood drunk: http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Pregnant-woman-killed-3-seek-bail-20111123

annie.kalahari - 2011-11-24 09:13

Human_Sacrifice Nr Two in SA news media TODAY: Victim Stephen Nakedi's intestines, stomach WERE cut out while alive: HIS heart, liver, genitals were then removed, and his head cut off with glass shards from a broken beer bottle: and then the mutilated torse was dumped in a church yard. Yet the totally meaningless headline merely says that 'Three apply for bail after murder'...
http://www.volksblad.com/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/Ingewande-uitgesny-wyl-man-leef-hoor-hof-20111123

Judy - 2011-11-26 01:41

Good of you to point that out, That is exactly what I meant in my post a little higher up. We do not get told the truth. The secrecy bil is a farce, it has been in force for many years already!!

Zan - 2011-11-29 11:29

Why is society to blame for any part of this crime? I don't think of things like this never mind do them, neither do any of the people I know. She thought of doing this horrible crime, carried it out. Her choice, it's no one's fault but her own sick perversions. Never let this person out, if you know of a child who hurts animals get them help immediately, because they are likely to kill later on.

Glen - 2011-12-20 14:45

Scary ...met her in a bar in Welkom years ago...she looked for excitement and attention...lucky me got away..sure it was her dilly dally boyfriend that's behind this horror story