LE

ISTR that you libelled Carrington and had no evidence to support your weird claims. Something about commanders having been bribed to halt, wasn't it? I understood the tanks at Nijmegen had been under fire and they would have been stopped by anti-tank guns, Panzerfausts, Panzershreks, etc., if they'd advanced without infantry support, long before they got near Arnhem.

I found it offensive. I'd imagine someone must have reported it* and the Mods deleted it.

*I did.

The Duke of Kent? They just flew into a mountain. It happened a lot. Grow up.

Your link; "...Prince Albert became King George V1 in 1936 and Elizabeth become Queen Elizabeth 1 - later known as the Queen Mother."

Your research is evident.

Last edited: 22 Aug 2018

Peccavi.

Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. They are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which it was already but too easy to arrive at.

LE

Fully referenced all this.
Anyhow, you can't obliterate 2 Para's horrifying wait, in the face of the SS Panzergrenadiers, for the corps of tanks that didn't roll, with a few niggardly swear words.

THE BRIDGE TOO FAR
With this diversion fairly comprehensively covered, let’s now briefly return to the actual events of Montgomery’s audacious Operation Market Garden – the approved plan to take and hold the five Dutch bridges that would open a way for a massive Allied thrust at the heart of Germany.
Those who have seen the excellent film, based on Cornelius Ryan’s book “A Bridge Too Far” will recall the sheer stubborn courage of those soldiers of the Third Battalion of the US 82nd Airborne, under the command of Major Julian Cook, who paddled across the Waal river in slow, cumbersome boats, under a blizzard of deadly German fire, to assault and hold the heavily defended but critical Nijmegen road Bridge, a few miles south of Arnhem.
This was a last ditch attempt to relive the sorely battered British paratroops at Arnhem led by Colonel John Frost. Eventually succeeding, at terrible cost, the Nijmegen Bridge was taken and held. But rather than rushing armour up the road to Arnhem to relieve Colonel Frost and ensure success of Montgomery’s daring plan, a British Guards Major arriving at Nijmegen Bridge told his American counterparts that “we do not move our tanks at night.” [33] A furious Colonel Tucker, the regimental commander of the 504th – that had secured the bridge, vehemently argued there was no time to waste before the Germans reinforced and that the British must grab the chance to reinforce Frost at Arnhem. Immune to these arguments, the English Major repeated “Well, we can’t move our tanks at night,” and then added “We will move them in the morning.” [34] The next morning, as expected, the whole area was heavy with German armoured reinforcements.
Cornelius Ryan does not name the Grenadier Guards Major in his book, which is unusual. There also appear to be some critical inaccuracies in the chain of events he sets forth in his book.
A recent BBC documentary series called “Battlefields” presented by historian Prof. Richard Holmes, focused one programme on “The Battle for Arnhem.” The programme makers interviewed on camera Captain Moffatt Burriss, commander of “I” company of the 504th, who was present when General Horrocks first asked to Colonel Tucker, commander of the American 504th, if he would take the heavily defended bridge by assaulting across the Waal. According to Burriss, General Horrocks said “This is an awesome task, can your lads do it?” Tucker replied, “Well general, if we take the bridge, will your tanks be lined-up ready to go?” Horrocks replied, “My tanks will be lined-up in full force, hell-bent for Arnhem and nothing will stop them.” [35]
Once the bridge had been taken, it was Captain Burriss who welcomed the first tanks across, and was astonished when they stopped. He asked the sergeant in the first tank why they had stopped. The sergeant who was commanding the first three tanks – soon to be joined by a fourth under the command a the Grenadier Guards major – said that there was a German anti tank gun up ahead and that “if I go up there that gun will knock out my tank.” Burriss said, “Well, we’ll go with you and get that gun.” But the offer wasn’t accepted because, the sergeant said “No, I can’t go, I’ve got no orders.” [36] A situation that is in marked contrast to General Horrocks intentions and his direct pledge to Colonel Tucker.
According to the Grenadier Guards war diary, they bridge at Nijmegen was merely “consolidated.” Also appearing on the interview was the Grenadier Guards major, who said, “it would have been quite difficult to go ahead.” Captain Burriss didn’t see it that way. He said during the programme that he “felt betrayed.” His men had taken the bridge at massive cost, facing machine guns, 20mm canons and numerous other weapons, but the British “were stopping because of one gun and they had a whole Corps of tanks” at their disposal.
There was virtually nothing between the Grenadiers and Arnhem 8 miles away. At the north end of Arnhem Bridge the British paratroopers still held out. With an injured Colonel Frost, his second-in-command Major, Tony Hibbert of the 1st Parachute Brigade, fought on. He could hear the tanks of the Grenadier Guards in the distance. But they didn’t arrive. Interviewed for the BBC programme he reflected wryly, perhaps even bitterly, that the Market Garden plan “Could and should have worked,” adding with a wry look that the tanks under the control of Lord carrington were “over the bridge before we were overrun.”
THE LOST BOYS
Royal patronage of the Grenadier Guards can be seen by virtue of the fact that reigning British monarch’s are usually appointed as “colonels-in-chief” of the Regiment. It is one of only five British regiments who have the honour of trooping the monarch’s “colour” the royal flag – in front of the Monarch on the occasion of their official birthday. The ceremony derives from mounting guard of the royal family and palaces and as “Household Troops” the Grenadiers are one of the regiments who have the honour of guarding the monarch. The rank and file of the Grenadiers swear an oath of allegiance to the monarch as head of the Armed Forces of the United Kingdom. It is considerable significance that the oath is sworn to the reigning British monarch and not to Parliament. Interestingly, the first public engagement of the present monarch, Queen Elizabeth II, took place in 1942, when, as a young princess, she inspected the Grenadier Guards on her 16th birthday.
The Grenadier Guards officer he was referring to was Major Peter Alexander Rupert Smith, of the extremely powerful and influential Smith family - an almost publicly unknown dynasty of bankers that dates back 350 years. It was in the 1650’s when Thomas Smith founded Samuel Smith & Co, Bankers in Nottingham, which is believed to have been the first English bank headquartered outside of London. Successive generations of Smiths ensured that the family business flourished and by 1902 a total of ten branches were operating.
Not only did a leading member of the family befriended Lord Rothschild, but a family member later married a Rothschild. A further dynastic marriage was to the well-known Baring family of bankers. Their influence kept on expanding and expanding. Frances Dora Smith married Sir Claude Lyon-Bowes, who were the grandparents of Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon who married Prince Albert (Bertie) in 1923. Prince Albert became King George V1 in 1936 and Elizabeth become Queen Elizabeth 1 - later known as the Queen Mother. In recent years, newspaper article concerning the Queen Mothers favourable attitude to the “pro-peace movement” spoke of her “desire to avert war with Germany and for closer ties to be established between the two countries.” [37] One newspaper went so far as to state that the Queen would have willingly accepted a German occupation providing that the monarchy and her place in it remained intact. [38]
Her brother, David Bowes-Lyon, to whom she was exceptionally close was, before the war, a director of Lazard Brothers bankers and who also held an “important but vaguely defined role in SOE.” [39] The Lazard’s connection is significant inasmuch as this bank was a link to pro-nazi Sir Henri Deterding of Royal Dutch Shell and Viscount Bearsted of Hill Samuel, both of whom connect to Baron Kurt von Schroder – a hard core nazi, a financier of SS chief Heinrich Himmler and a leading member of the “circle of friends of the Reichsfuhrer.” Von Schroder coincidentally employed Allen Dulles as his American attorney [40] Royal Dutch Shell has long believed to be largely owned by the Dutch and British royal families.
Von Schroder was also a member of the Anglo-German Fellowship and a director of the bankers, Lazard Brothers. The Anglo-German fellowship was founded in 1935 by German banker Ernest Tennant - a close friend of Hitler’s Foreign Minister, Joachim von Ribbentrop - and had numerous members who admired Hitler. Some, went even further.
For example, Sir Oswald Mosley founded the fascist British Black shirts, which was funded by Berlin. Another was nazi enthusiast, Admiral Sir Barry Domville, who would later become a Shickshinny Knight. [41] Charles Edward, Duke of Saxe Coburg & Gotha was sent by Hitler to England to be the President of the Fellowship with instructions to improve Anglo-German relations and to push for an alliance between both countries. Another member was the Duke of Hamilton, who as we have seen, was the British point of contact sought by Rudolf Hess in his flight to Scotland. Saxe Coburg Gotha is, of course, the real family name of the British royal family, who changed to Windsor during the First World War to dilute any expressions of animosity by the British public.
The connections of the British royal family to the Nazis continue. Prince Phillip Mountbatten’s (Duke of Edinburgh) closest sister in age, Princess Sophie, married Prince Christopher of Hesse, who was a member of Himmler’s staff, enlisting as an “agent.” [42] Prince Christopher would die in an aircraft accident in 1944, preceding by two years the extremely suspicious death of Prince George, the Duke of Kent and brother of the King, George VI – who also died in an aircraft “accident.”
The Duke of Kent died on 25th August 1942 aboard a Sunderland flying boat belonging to 228 Squadron of Coastal Command that crashed into a hill, called the Eagle’s Rock, near Berriedale, Caithness, Scotland. The authors of the book “Double Standards” make a strong case that the aircraft was sabotaged on the instructions of Churchill, in order to avert the conclusion of a secret alliance agreed in principle between Germany and England that was to be signed in Sweden by the Duke of Kent, presumably on behalf of his brother, the King. The authors believe that aboard the aircraft and travelling with the Duke was none other that deputy fuehrer, Rudolf Hess.
Staying at Balmoral the night before the crash, according to one biography of the Queen Mother, the Duke feasted on a last supper of sorts. His dinner companion was Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands. [43]

SNATCHING VICTORY FROM DEFEAT​

It should come as no surprise to learn that the Grenadier Guards Major, Peter Smith, is the 6th Baron Carrington more commonly known as Lord Carrington, who in April 1985 was honoured by the Queen when he was made a knight of the Most Noble Order of the Garter, the oldest and most prestigious British Order of chivalry that dates back almost 700 years. As a member of the royal family bloodline, Lord Carrington’s illustrious career has included a stint as chairman of the secretive and elite Bildergers. Not least, he was a former President of the Pilgrim Society that was founded in London in 1902 (and in New York in 1903), as a dying wish of Cecil Rhodes. Another member of this ultra secret society was none other than the Duke of Kent, as was A J Drexel Biddle.
Founded in May 1954, the Bilderberg Conferences bring together the elite of the world to seek a consensus on how global matters are to be shaped. It is viewed with extreme suspicion by many who see it as working outside of democratic control to foist on them a dictatorial world order dedicated to the interests of the elite few.
Those instrumental in the founding of Bilderberg have included, General Walter Bedell Smith, Allen Dulles and Antoine Pinay, the ultra right French Prime Minister and Otto Wolff of the Cologne based firm Otto Wolff A. G., whose father was a substantial contributor to Hitler. Another was Sir Collin Gubbins, wartime head of the SOE who had established and trained Auxilary Units to resist underground in the event of a nazi invasion. These, in turn, were linked to the so-called Army “Oxen Units” that engaged in sabotage. One such Oxen Unit was in Berriedale at the time the Duke of Kent’s aircraft crashed. [44]
Attendees are numerous and very influential. These have included, for example, David Rockefeller, Walter Boveri Jr, son of the founder of Brown Boveri, Sir Eric Roll of Warburg’s London based merchant bank and Dr. Herman Abs of I G Farben – to name just a few who are relevant to this essay. The first Bilderberg chairman was Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands, who remained chairing the meetings until 1976, when he stood down following his disgrace for accepting bribes in the Lockheed affair.
Of significance is the fact that the first Bilderberg meeting was held ten years after the failed Operation Market Garden, in a hotel (named the Bilderberg – hence the name of the group), that is located in Oosterbeek, Holland, just a few kilometres from both Arnhem and Nijmegen – and in the very middle of the fighting to take the Arnhem bridge.
Is it possible that Oosterbeck was chosen for the first meeting of Bilderberg in order to secretly celebrate the success in getting the wealth of nazi Germany to safety as planned by Bormann? Possibly. In the first two years of its existence, four meetings were held, on a semi-annual basis. [45] For 1954, meeting were held in May and again in September. In 1955, they were in March and September. Thereafter, meetings have been held just once annually in May. September 1954 was, of course, the month of the failed – or betrayed – Operation Market Garden.
1954 is of significance for other reasons, too, for it was in 1954 that the Allies finally agreed to return Western Germany to the status of a sovereign nation and German companies were, at last, freed from Allied control on 5th May 1955. The assets of Thyssen, Krupp and others that had been secreted abroad could now be untangled and returned to once again rebuild Germany – as foreseen by Bormann. [46] The treaty that ended the occupation of West Germany was signed in Paris in October 1954. [47]
The past is the future. Sadly.Untitled Document

Why in the name of green wobbly fcuk does your keeper let you near a keyboard, you vervet-felching moonhowler.
Please open a woodclangers charcuterie in Musa Qala.

- Apparently some moderators take themselves very, very seriously, and cannot abide posts such as:
"If however you offer to moderate you may be a sanctimonious, unfunny ******** to your heart's content."
- Deuteronomy 23:1
- Some comments are allegedly "very very nasty and uncalled for."

LE

So, having been repeatedly handed your arse on a plate on the previous thread (you still haven't explained how Shermans were meant to fight at night or how Carrington's remaining PAIR of Shermans were meant to fight their way through a bunch of StuGs and panzergrenadiers that had already KOd half of the troop...), you 'reset' your alternative facts and come back here as if the previous thread didn't exist AND throw in a load of Royals = Nazi Lizard-People wibble...?

LE

LE

[...]will recall the sheer stubborn courage of those soldiers of the Third Battalion of the US 82nd Airborne, under the command of Major Julian Cook, who paddled across the Waal river in slow, cumbersome boats, under a blizzard of deadly German fire, to assault and hold the heavily defended but critical Nijmegen road Bridge, a few miles south of Arnhem.

LE

Operation Market Garden was planned and overseen at 1 Airborne Corps HQ, which at the time was based at Moor Park Mansion, Rickmansworth, Herts - the clubhouse of the prestigious Moor Park Golf Club during peacetime.

LE

Without wanting to lend any weight to the wibblers conspiracy crap, the 82nd weren't in a position to go for the bridge in any significant number on Day 1 due to the 'need' to secure the groesbeek heights & the DZ/LZs for the next lifts. There was also the (contentious?) issue of the deployment of Brownings Corps HQ & the glider requirement. Had they delayed their arrival, could another half or full battalion have been landed on D Day?
However, your point is very valid, had they had the men then likely they would have succeeded.
Cooks superb battalion action aside there it wasn't just 1AB's plan that was a bit diffy in parts.

He was safe, alive and although in enemy hands was unlikely to be in battlefield danger for the foreseeable future.
Was she hoping for a posthumous gong ?

- Apparently some moderators take themselves very, very seriously, and cannot abide posts such as:
"If however you offer to moderate you may be a sanctimonious, unfunny ******** to your heart's content."
- Deuteronomy 23:1
- Some comments are allegedly "very very nasty and uncalled for."

LE

LE

Just found this rather well done day-by-day analysis of Market Garden.
Whether you agree with his conclusions at the end is up to you, but the in-depth breakdown of what went on in all areas really does cast light on what a struggle it actually was for everyone involved.
It's almost 2 hours long, so be prepared to give up some time to it.

The universe doesn’t care what you believe.

The wonderful thing about science is that it doesn’t ask for your faith, it just asks for your eyes.

LE

Just found this rather well done day-by-day analysis of Market Garden.
Whether you agree with his conclusions at the end is up to you, but the in-depth breakdown of what went on in all areas really does cast light on what a struggle it actually was for everyone involved.
It's almost 2 hours long, so be prepared to give up some time to it.

I've subscribed to this for a while now, but to be honest I haven't really watched for some time as I haven't always got the time to watch yet another one hour video. Also he is a bit "I'm right and anyone who disagrees with me is wrong".

I also think that sometimes he is a bit careless, or posts stuff without fully understanding what he is posting. He posted a review of Antony Beevor's book "Arnhem" and accused Beevor of lying in the title. Myself and a few other viewers advised him to pull that one asap for legal reasons, which to be fair to him he did. He recently received a book on economics and decided to post a video on what he had learned. As an economics graduate it was painful to watch. He appeared uncertain and just looked like he was winging it - I suspect he used notes instead of a script.

Old-Salt

I've just recently finished reading Anthony Beevor's book "D-Day" and have just started on reading his "Arnhem". Monty's reputation gets a battering certainly in the D Day book and the trend continues in the Arnhem read, so far. According to Mr Beevor Monty was coasting off his reputation and his ego was leading the army from one battering to another.
Mr Beevor clearly is a Patton fan.

LE

I've subscribed to this for a while now, but to be honest I haven't really watched for some time as I haven't always got the time to watch yet another one hour video. Also he is a bit "I'm right and anyone who disagrees with me is wrong".

I also think that sometimes he is a bit careless, or posts stuff without fully understanding what he is posting. He posted a review of Antony Beevor's book "Arnhem" and accused Beevor of lying in the title. Myself and a few other viewers advised him to pull that one asap for legal reasons, which to be fair to him he did. He recently received a book on economics and decided to post a video on what he had learned. As an economics graduate it was painful to watch. He appeared uncertain and just looked like he was winging it - I suspect he used notes instead of a script.

- Apparently some moderators take themselves very, very seriously, and cannot abide posts such as:
"If however you offer to moderate you may be a sanctimonious, unfunny ******** to your heart's content."
- Deuteronomy 23:1
- Some comments are allegedly "very very nasty and uncalled for."

LE

If you ignore his opinions (which, TBH, I did) the information of just how, when, where and with what the Germans used to counter Market Garden over the entire battlefield and not just Arnhem, set out in a pretty good timeline, is worth viewing it for.

The universe doesn’t care what you believe.

The wonderful thing about science is that it doesn’t ask for your faith, it just asks for your eyes.