Was curious on other people's thoughts on the effectiveness of the T15 4pc in 10H so far? I've been pretty adamant in keeping the 4pc until I can swap it directly for 4pc 16, but on further analysis, keeping the 15 4pc has prevented me from using various upgrades I've gotten, as I was always overflowing in hit that I wouldn't be able to get rid of.

Looked at logs and while my DP usage probably lacks on some of the easier stuff, I noticed the 4pc generates an average of ~7-15 hp/fight, with some of the harder hitting ones (Malkorok for example) getting 22 hp.

Do the bosses hit hard enough in peoples minds to warrant keeping it for 10H (as 25H hits much much harder)? Or is it better to use some decent off-set items? The overall ilvl difference in 4pc vs new gear is +6-7 ilvls, ~5% haste, ~5% mastery, 30k+ hp, and various others.

Xfighter wrote:Was curious on other people's thoughts on the effectiveness of the T15 4pc in 10H so far? I've been pretty adamant in keeping the 4pc until I can swap it directly for 4pc 16, but on further analysis, keeping the 15 4pc has prevented me from using various upgrades I've gotten, as I was always overflowing in hit that I wouldn't be able to get rid of.

Looked at logs and while my DP usage probably lacks on some of the easier stuff, I noticed the 4pc generates an average of ~7-15 hp/fight, with some of the harder hitting ones (Malkorok for example) getting 22 hp.

Do the bosses hit hard enough in peoples minds to warrant keeping it for 10H (as 25H hits much much harder)? Or is it better to use some decent off-set items? The overall ilvl difference in 4pc vs new gear is +6-7 ilvls, ~5% haste, ~5% mastery, 30k+ hp, and various others.

This is coming from 25H, but I did tank 10H in ToT for part of that tier. In 10 man, gear is more limited and you may have other classes who share your tier token with stronger set bonuses. If I were you, I would either wait for T16 4 piece, or when you have THREE well itemized offset items to switch out of T15. And when I say well itemized, I mean at least Heroic and ideal secondary stats. No Parry or Dodge. As you stated, T15 is still generating a decent amount of Holy Power even with the nerf. It is more effective on the hard hitting bosses, when we really need the Holy Power. The 2 piece is also effective, giving you more block after you use an Eternal Flame. I'm still using it, and letting other classes who share my tier get their T16 set before I even consider it.

This is also coming from someone who thinks that the T16 4-piece is pretty weak, the 2-piece is garbage, and will probably aim for well itemized offset pieces, forgetting tier altogether. After people start taking it for offset, I will probably pick it up and give it a try.

I will not be equipping upgrades either until I have enough well itemized offset pieces to make the transition.

Thanks for the reply! Tested out running without 4pc T15 for part of our farm kills, as well as the first few heroic farm kills, and overall don't notice a HUGE difference, but I can still feel the loss of it a little bit. Especially after getting heroic CDR trinket off our malkorok kill last week. Most likely going back to 4pc tomorrow night for general+malk and up, as they hit harder (esp solo soaking blood rages).

And yea, my 10-man has 2 warlocks, 2 priests, and me in the "CORE", and a holy pally who is beginning to be more in our core, and we just finished grabbed the 4 DPS their 4pcs first, before I took a single T16 token. So I'm most likely up next on getting them, so will probably make the 4pc -> 4pc swap once I get them. Unless I get some nice heroic offset items, but most of those come later on in the instance anyways.

Trying to conduct research to better myself as the main tank for our raid and have been constantly reviewing the theory craft threads. Has the battle healer glyph become outdated and if so what are typical tanks replacing it with? Also if even has time critique on my build would be much appreciated. Currently pursuing a control/haste with a emphasis on stacking stam as well. My logs show a lousy up time of ~30% however has it become so nerfed that most individuals are choosing EF? As well as tier 6 I understand that the dilemma is now picking between the two hammers rather than HP. Any assistance is greatly appreciated.

Yes, battle healer is very bad now: you can read the discussion in Theck's talent guide thread on this site. Personally, I've switched to the WoG glyph based on Wrathblood's calculation of its dps. (I use focused shield for single target too). You probably should switch to EF from SS: it's just a lot more throughput.

This is the first posting hereI am in need of some help..I always seem to keep dieing on Norushen when I go into the other realm...I am getting the interupts and moving out of the titanic smash..but the dot it pops on me I dont know if I just dont have enough stam in my gear..and forget about getting an offhand in that raid either ..spent 4 tokens on bosses this week trying to get one

Klaudandus wrote:quick question, what abilites does the Vial of Living Corruption affect?

DP, AD, GoAK, AW, DS, HoP.

Actually a bit "unfair" in that it lowers CD on AW but not on HA - I really did prefer HA and still like the playstyle. But now that I got the trinket, a 2.5 min AW with SW talented is really looking strong(er). Any thoughts here if this shifts talent choices from HA to SW ? (Considering you, like me, dont like DP as the build-up time before the first EF ticks just feels way to loooooong)

Klaudandus wrote:quick question, what abilites does the Vial of Living Corruption affect?

DP, AD, GoAK, AW, DS, HoP.

Actually a bit "unfair" in that it lowers CD on AW but not on HA - I really did prefer HA and still like the playstyle. But now that I got the trinket, a 2.5 min AW with SW talented is really looking strong(er). Any thoughts here if this shifts talent choices from HA to SW ? (Considering you, like me, dont like DP as the build-up time before the first EF ticks just feels way to loooooong)

It might move it closer, yea. But its still a long CD, and the benefit to HA is you generally want it more often as a "CD", and the 2 mins for most uses of it I've found to be about right in terms of timing.

I'm personally a big fan of running DP over either of the others, so much that when running HA it feels weird for me, but HA does have its uses for me on some fights. (Swapped to DP around heroic horridon so ~a month after ToT) and have only changed to HA for some specific fights. In SoO, the only time I really found myself rocking HA has been on Heroic IronJug for blanket EFs in p2, heroic Malkorok (solo soaking rages), and random Thok kills to help with EFs to stay in p1 longer (mostly earlier kills when DPS lacked).

With the trinket though, I'm sure all are pretty comparable in terms of HP/Min, with SW maybe pulling a bit ahead of HA, and DP being more random (sometimes wayy better, sometimes equal, sometimes worse) - but simming yourself with each using the trinket would be able to give you more concrete evidence of benefits.

Schroom wrote:HA is still as strong as it was.no really balance. and Blizzard saw this as well. that's why HA is not affected.

Also they stated that they stayed away from effecting talents, as the talents in general (for all specs) aren't balanced around the trinket, and it would make that talent the 100% right choice for most classes, which goes against the whole concept of MoP talents.

kamidak wrote:how a pally can "soak" the p2 from heroic malkorok(25)? like... pop all cd's and some others external?And 3m CD back for next p2

Pretty much, you want to stagger your cooldowns and externals to cover the 20 seconds of the phase. It's made better if you have Rook's Unlucky Talisman, since that works on Blood Rage. You can only really soak the second one if you have a good enough Vial of Living Corruption. The next blood rage is in 2 minutes 50 seconds, and your cooldowns will be slightly off if you don't have that cooldown reduction trinket.

I run 10m heroics and we're currently working on Thok. For progression I use the tank cloak and occasionally the CD reduction trinket.

I recently got the Prot chest and shoulder tokens, and was wondering if it's worth it to drop my heroic off-pieces in order to hit the 4pc bonus. I'm not entirely convinced that it would be worth the stat loss.

burglah wrote:I recently got the Prot chest and shoulder tokens, and was wondering if it's worth it to drop my heroic off-pieces in order to hit the 4pc bonus. I'm not entirely convinced that it would be worth the stat loss.

If you're running with DP and EF it's imo definitely worth it. When the patch came out i was reluctant about using the 4p but when i tried it i was astonished at how OP it is. With it it's joy to play with eternal flame, which i really hated before. I'd say it's easily worth 10% of haste. Just give it a try on farm and see for yourself.

Just a quick question on my trinkets. I just picked up the Stamina trinket with the AOE damage reduction, I am thinking of replacing the Spark of Zandaral with it. This will cost me about 3% haste, bringing me from 42.93 haste to 39.87%. I was wondering if the extra stamina is worth more then the amount of haste I am losing. My other trinket is the dodge lifesteal one, kind of useless but I am getting almost 900 haste from the reforge.

You say Spark gets you about 3% haste, so I assume you have the LFR version. In that case, the upgrade is very much worth it. If it was thunderforged, or even normal and upgraded, I'd recommend keeping it in your bags for when you want some extra DPS, but for survivability, your SoO trinkets are better.

In any case, I recommend grinding out 50k coins for the 535 Alacrity of Xuen. For me, when I select the Low Stamina option on Ask Mr Robot "(Don't use stamina gems, enchants, or trinkets in most cases)" Alacrity is #3 behind Vial of Living Corruption, warforged at #1 and normal at #2.

I have Rook's Unlucky Talisman, Soul Barrier, and Alacrity of Xuen. I switch between the last two depending on whether I feel I need the extra health or the extra DPS. For example, I use Alacrity on all bosses up through Iron Juggernaut, to hurry things along. If my group 3 tanks Dark Shaman, I keep it, if we 2 tank it, I switch to the 2 Stam trinkets. On Nazgrim I use Alacrity again to help kill adds and get a better burn phase. On Malkorok, I use Alacrity since it's a DPS check. On Spoils I use 2 Stam trinkets since I'm opening boxes, which reduces how much Holy Power I can generate. For Thok, I've been using 2 Stam since that's our progression. Last week we were working on Blackfuse instead, so I was using Alacrity to help kill my adds. It's a very flexible system. Eventually, I'm hoping to get Vial to have full time, swapping between Rook's and Alacrity as needed, same concept, just with better stats and cooldown reduction.

"There is no such thing as luck; there is only adequate or inadequate preparation to cope with a statistical universe."- Robert A. Heinlein

I read that having a 463 shield would get you squashed in SoO LFR. I have upgraded Sutiru's Brazen Bulwark to 484, but had terrible luck getting a shield to drop from Sha of Pride in LFR. Will the upgraded Sutiru's be enough for flex, or should I keep banging my head against LFR?

A better shield would be nice but one item slot is never make or break for a tank (unlike the weapon for a dps).

Your haste is a low, so try to work on that. Use something like ask mr robot to see if you can squeeze your hit and expertise to be closer to caps, then keep an eye out for upgrades with haste on them. Setting your loot spec to ret is often a good idea as there's less chance of low priority stats (but not for bosses that drop shields ofc!).

After trying that out, I was able to get just over the hit/exp caps by reforging alone. I also tried replacing all gems with straight up haste. This caused me to lose around 50k health, but only gain about 4% haste. Is it worth the trade off?

Given your itemlevel and the content you want to tank - flex - I think it's fine to sacrifice health for haste. That's what I'm doing. If you were undergeared or going up against Garrosh soon, then I might hesitate. But what most people do is work towards the haste cap (50%) as they approach normal mode gear level (553). Heroic raiders have the luxury of capping haste and then choosing stamina, mastery or even crit.

Once you get a nice level of haste, the play style does become very enjoyable. I am still not 100% convinced it's better survival than stamina (opinions differ) but once you've tasted it, it's hard to go back.

Second, as i just rerolled my gear is a bit low. My guild is 4/14 HC and ive tanked Immerseus, Protectors and Norushen so far. It feels like my HP is a bit low and ive gone all out haste on my gemming. Should i go for some pure sta or haste+sta gems till i bump up my ilevel a bit?