StoPPeRmobile:Ilmarinen: hasty ambush: In fact they do not make you more well rounded

Most jobs don't require even superficial historical knowledge. Should therefore history not be taught anymore (except to the few who'll work in that field)?

It shouldn't be taught at all. That's how people figure out that those in power are lying to them. We can't have that.

Unless they're rich, most people go to college to eventually get a decent job. If I'm spending $60k or more for 4 years of job training, let me cut out the stuff I don't need and charge me less money. European history, jazz theory, yoga, creative writing, et al were useless to me and most other everything majors, but we sure paid a crap ton of money for them.

xnecron:hasty ambush: Krieghund: It's a minor. You don't "do anything" with a minor.

Then why offer it? Exactly how much of your student loan debt is acquired because you take something you don't anything with?

Part of the uneeded expense off a higher education is all these courses you are made to take that have nothing to do with your major but are supposd to make you more "well rounded". In fact they do not make you more well rounded they increase your debt load and provide employment for people who were stupid enough to get majors in stupid areas to begin with. Exactly how many meaningful employment opportunities are there for people who major in gender studies for example? Outside of academia (and that can hardly be called meaningful) damn few.

Yeah, you're obviously not concern trolling here at all. If you don't think non-major classes in college make your education broader and more well-rounded, you're either lying or a fool. Labeling gender studies as "stupid" and "meaningless" is a pretty big red flag, not to mention your dismissal of academia in general.

On the whole, 1/10.

A better question is why you need the academic blessing of a minor if you are doing it for yourself? I suppose you can always name-drop "my minor in fly-fishing", but you jumped through plenty of university* defined hoops, each one with a hefty fee.

* in the US a university is a college whose mission barely includes undergraduate education.

ajt167:Unless they're rich, most people go to college to eventually get a decent job. If I'm spending $60k or more for 4 years of job training, let me cut out the stuff I don't need and charge me less money.

"Once I had a conversation with Daniel Bell, a famous social scientist, and he said--we were talking about graduate students--and he said, "My colleagues are always talking about training graduate students." He said, "What an outrage. You educate students, you don't train them. You train a dog." (....) Education is the process in which we force you to think on your own."Link

Ilmarinen:ajt167: Unless they're rich, most people go to college to eventually get a decent job. If I'm spending $60k or more for 4 years of job training, let me cut out the stuff I don't need and charge me less money.

"Once I had a conversation with Daniel Bell, a famous social scientist, and he said--we were talking about graduate students--and he said, "My colleagues are always talking about training graduate students." He said, "What an outrage. You educate students, you don't train them. You train a dog." (....) Education is the process in which we force you to think on your own."Link

No argument there. In my head, at least, training is what you do to pass on existing learned practices. Educating is what you do to pass on the tools for creating new learned practices. Both training and education occur, in varying amounts, whenever you teach someone something.

Pumpernickel bread:On the one hand, U of A never had a sterling academic reputation to begin with, so this doesn't really sully their reputation. As for students who actually decide to minor in this - have a worthwhile major at least and remember - it is very difficult to discharge student loan debt.

Ua is a research institution which ranks pretty high for public engineering programs. Systems was top 5 just a few years ago.

MyRandomName:Pumpernickel bread: On the one hand, U of A never had a sterling academic reputation to begin with, so this doesn't really sully their reputation. As for students who actually decide to minor in this - have a worthwhile major at least and remember - it is very difficult to discharge student loan debt.

Ua is a research institution which ranks pretty high for public engineering programs. Systems was top 5 just a few years ago.

Are you an asu alumn or something?

Couldn't be. He wrote coherent sentences and I'm assuming that since he was on topic that he could both read and comprehend the headline.

Ilmarinen:ajt167: Unless they're rich, most people go to college to eventually get a decent job. If I'm spending $60k or more for 4 years of job training, let me cut out the stuff I don't need and charge me less money.

"Once I had a conversation with Daniel Bell, a famous social scientist, and he said--we were talking about graduate students--and he said, "My colleagues are always talking about training graduate students." He said, "What an outrage. You educate students, you don't train them. You train a dog." (....) Education is the process in which we force you to think on your own."Link

I understand the argument, but training isn't necessarily a bad thing. If I could have gotten the same level of core courses and skipped the other stuff for a cheaper price, I would have. Don't get me wrong, the other classes were fun and interesting, but other than being able to best my wife in Jeopardy!, they serve no discernible long lasting and advantageous purpose. Another semester or two of engineering courses would have been much more useful to me.

That's my opinion and that of many people I talk to, but by no means all of them.

MyRandomName:Pumpernickel bread: On the one hand, U of A never had a sterling academic reputation to begin with, so this doesn't really sully their reputation. As for students who actually decide to minor in this - have a worthwhile major at least and remember - it is very difficult to discharge student loan debt.

Ua is a research institution which ranks pretty high for public engineering programs. Systems was top 5 just a few years ago.

Are you an asu alumn or something?

He managed to put together a reasonably coherent sentence without any misspellings; no way he went to ASU.

ajt167:Ilmarinen: ajt167: Unless they're rich, most people go to college to eventually get a decent job. If I'm spending $60k or more for 4 years of job training, let me cut out the stuff I don't need and charge me less money.

"Once I had a conversation with Daniel Bell, a famous social scientist, and he said--we were talking about graduate students--and he said, "My colleagues are always talking about training graduate students." He said, "What an outrage. You educate students, you don't train them. You train a dog." (....) Education is the process in which we force you to think on your own."Link

I understand the argument, but training isn't necessarily a bad thing. If I could have gotten the same level of core courses and skipped the other stuff for a cheaper price, I would have. Don't get me wrong, the other classes were fun and interesting, but other than being able to best my wife in Jeopardy!, they serve no discernible long lasting and advantageous purpose. Another semester or two of engineering courses would have been much more useful to me.

That's my opinion and that of many people I talk to, but by no means all of them.

I've only known one performer who has ever used hip-hop/rap in an effective and entertaining way: Prince. Most of it is just thug and wigger noise, without any artistic merit. I don't even know that many Black people who like it (none over 35). Blacks have contributed so much to American music for a long, long time (they invented the blues, jazz, R&B and rock and roll). They have proved they can imagine much better music than this. So I agree with Winton Marsalis, who calls hip-hop/rap crap for the musically lazy.

ScouserDuck:MyRandomName: Pumpernickel bread: On the one hand, U of A never had a sterling academic reputation to begin with, so this doesn't really sully their reputation. As for students who actually decide to minor in this - have a worthwhile major at least and remember - it is very difficult to discharge student loan debt.

Ua is a research institution which ranks pretty high for public engineering programs. Systems was top 5 just a few years ago.

Are you an asu alumn or something?

Couldn't be. He wrote coherent sentences and I'm assuming that since he was on topic that he could both read and comprehend the headline.

hasty ambush:xnecron: Yeah, you're obviously not concern trolling here at all. If you don't think non-major classes in college make your education broader and more well-rounded, you're either lying or a fool. Labeling gender studies as "stupid" and "meaningless" is a pretty big red flag, not to mention your dismissal of academia in general.

On the whole, 1/10.

You are either one of those poor fools who is relaint on such classes being taught for employment or thinks studying the Vagina monologues makes you well rounded.

I am "dismissal of academia in general" because of things like the University of Delaware's "All whites are racist" indoctrination or that a person can get a masters degree in puppetry.

Puppetry is a fantastic field to get into. It's an industry desperately in need of sane talent. (most puppeteers are crazy)

If I was just starting out and money was one of my goals I would get into designing and making puppets. The people who are successful doing that are filthy rich.

p://www.fark.com/comments/7533897/81876636#c81876636" target="_blank">ph0rk: T.M.S.: I went to college for a while. I don't recall anyone particularly concerned what they were going to do with their degree. When did this become so important?

Yes, because everything you learn in college must be directly related to increasing your income. In no way should college be about developing your character, pursuing your interests, or becoming a well-rounded and interesting person. Not in MY Americuh!

Moonfisher:Yes, because everything you learn in college must be directly related to increasing your income. In no way should college be about developing your character, pursuing your interests, or becoming a well-rounded and interesting person. Not in MY Americuh!

Moonfisher:Yes, because everything you learn in college must be directly related to increasing your income. In no way should college be about developing your character, pursuing your interests, or becoming a well-rounded and interesting person. Not in MY Americuh!

We can do that stuff for free. Why shell out tens of thousands of dollars for it? Getting knowledge and a piece of paper that says you're qualified to do a job that pays lots of money is a better reason to spend that money.

Moonfisher:Yes, because everything you learn in college must be directly related to increasing your income. In no way should college be about developing your character, pursuing your interests, or becoming a well-rounded and interesting person. Not in MY Americuh!

Thats ok till they start crying about the debt they incured while doing it.

Joe Blowme:Moonfisher: Yes, because everything you learn in college must be directly related to increasing your income. In no way should college be about developing your character, pursuing your interests, or becoming a well-rounded and interesting person. Not in MY Americuh!

Thats ok till they start crying about the debt they incured while doing it.

True, by all means, if you have the money, go for it. I'd love to take classes on some more interesting things, but the vast majority of us can't afford it.

Joe Blowme:Moonfisher: Yes, because everything you learn in college must be directly related to increasing your income. In no way should college be about developing your character, pursuing your interests, or becoming a well-rounded and interesting person. Not in MY Americuh!

Thats ok till they start crying about the debt they incured while doing it.

I agree. I worked my way through a junior then state college, and though it took me longer than I would have liked, I walked away with a paltry debt of less than 10k. But that has nothing to do with what programs the school offers and whether or not they are enriching and interesting. It's a MINOR. You can major in chemistry or engineering and grab a minor in hip-hop to keep things fun. I took a music appreciation class and a beginning puppetry course for electives to mix things up. What's funny is BOTH of those classes have ended up being useful at some point, now that I work with children. Besides, even if your major turns out to have too few jobs for you to succeed at it, merely having a degree increases your income over your lifetime. There are plenty of jobs where you will be considered for management first if you have more education, facilitating your upward mobility.

ajt167:Ilmarinen: ajt167: Unless they're rich, most people go to college to eventually get a decent job. If I'm spending $60k or more for 4 years of job training, let me cut out the stuff I don't need and charge me less money.

"Once I had a conversation with Daniel Bell, a famous social scientist, and he said--we were talking about graduate students--and he said, "My colleagues are always talking about training graduate students." He said, "What an outrage. You educate students, you don't train them. You train a dog." (....) Education is the process in which we force you to think on your own."Link

I understand the argument, but training isn't necessarily a bad thing. If I could have gotten the same level of core courses and skipped the other stuff for a cheaper price, I would have. Don't get me wrong, the other classes were fun and interesting, but other than being able to best my wife in Jeopardy!, they serve no discernible long lasting and advantageous purpose. Another semester or two of engineering courses would have been much more useful to me.

That's my opinion and that of many people I talk to, but by no means all of them.

StoPPeRmobile:ajt167: Ilmarinen: ajt167: Unless they're rich, most people go to college to eventually get a decent job. If I'm spending $60k or more for 4 years of job training, let me cut out the stuff I don't need and charge me less money.

"Once I had a conversation with Daniel Bell, a famous social scientist, and he said--we were talking about graduate students--and he said, "My colleagues are always talking about training graduate students." He said, "What an outrage. You educate students, you don't train them. You train a dog." (....) Education is the process in which we force you to think on your own."Link

I understand the argument, but training isn't necessarily a bad thing. If I could have gotten the same level of core courses and skipped the other stuff for a cheaper price, I would have. Don't get me wrong, the other classes were fun and interesting, but other than being able to best my wife in Jeopardy!, they serve no discernible long lasting and advantageous purpose. Another semester or two of engineering courses would have been much more useful to me.

That's my opinion and that of many people I talk to, but by no means all of them.

There is nothing stopping you from cracking a book.

/ Business Admin and Liberal Arts major

I completely agree, and I do read and study up on my field because I find it useful and fun. My main point was that for the money spent on the education, I would have liked and benefited more from a few more engineering classes in place of most gen eds.Again ymmv. Afterall, I did get a great education and feel I was pretty darn well prepared for work. Just that those gen eds were mainly a waste.

hasty ambush:Krieghund: It's a minor. You don't "do anything" with a minor.

Then why offer it? Exactly how much of your student loan debt is acquired because you take something you don't anything with?

Part of the uneeded expense off a higher education is all these courses you are made to take that have nothing to do with your major but are supposd to make you more "well rounded". In fact they do not make you more well rounded they increase your debt load and provide employment for people who were stupid enough to get majors in stupid areas to begin with. Exactly how many meaningful employment opportunities are there for people who major in gender studies for example? Outside of academia (and that can hardly be called meaningful) damn few.

Yep. Every single class I was forced to take outside my major was a complete and utter waste of time. The funny part is that each one of those professors had the "My field of study is the most important on this university" chip on his/her shoulder. My music appreciation professor was a complete buffoon and I was expecting to actually ENJOY that class and learn something at the same time because I do love music. I did neither, doing my damnedest not to fall asleep during an entire hour of Gregorian chants...Meanwhile, I was busting my hump, getting TWO CREDITS for an organic chemistry lab which met for four hours, twice per week.

I could see it being useful paired with a business or PR major, if you wanted to get into business side of hip hop. Or paired with a social work major. Or even paired with a writing or philosophy degree, so that maybe we could get some songs that aren't just about farking or fighting.

StoPPeRmobile:CujoQuarrel: If I was vetting resumes for a job position (I've done it before) anyone with that on their resume would be round canned immediately.

Shows the person is not very smart. They wasted their time in college getting that when they could have been using the time to gain some useful knowledge.

Of course if you are rich and don't need to work go for it.

Like languages other than English. Amirite.

+1.

Its a tough job market. I have only ever hired tough people.even for summer jobs. Anyone who decides to minor in popular music is not serious enough to survive round 1. Take some goofy classes, but minor in something that won't hurt you later. Even if you minor in gym, I know you have the cojones to run a metric ton of laps and can take lots of physical punishment and wont have a heart attack before you are 25.