Interview of the President by Radio and Television Ireland
The Library
June 24, 2004

4:08 P.M. EDT

Q Mr. President, you're going to arrive in Ireland in about 24
hours' time, and no doubt you will be welcomed by our political
leaders. Unfortunately, the majority of our public do not welcome your
visit because they're angry over Iraq, they're angry over Abu Ghraib.
Are you bothered by what Irish people think?

THE PRESIDENT: Listen, I hope the Irish people understand the
great values of our country. And if they think that a few soldiers
represents the entirety of America, they don't really understand
America then.

There have been great ties between Ireland and America, and we've
got a lot of Irish Americans here that are very proud of their heritage
and their country. But, you know, they must not understand if they're
angry over Abu Ghraib -- if they say, this is what America represents,
they don't understand our country, because we don't represent that. We
are a compassionate country. We're a strong country, and we'll defend
ourselves -- but we help people. And we've helped the Irish and we'll
continue to do so. We've got a good relationship with Ireland.

Q And they're angry over Iraq, as well, and particularly the
continuing death toll there.

THE PRESIDENT: Well, I can understand that. People don't like
war. But what they should be angry about is the fact that there was a
brutal dictator there that had destroyed lives and put them in mass
graves and had torture rooms. Listen, I wish they could have seen the
seven men that came to see me in the Oval Office -- they had their
right hands cut off by Saddam Hussein because the currency had devalued
when he was the leader. And guess what happened? An American saw the
fact that they had had their hands cut off and crosses -- or Xs carved
in their forehead. And he flew them to America. And they came to my
office with a new hand, grateful for the generosity of America, and
with Saddam Hussein's brutality in their mind.

Look, Saddam Hussein had used weapons of mass destruction against
his own people, against the neighborhood. He was a brutal dictator who
posed a threat -- such a threat that the United Nations voted
unanimously to say, Mr. Saddam Hussein --

Q Indeed, Mr. President, but you didn't find the weapons of
mass destruction.

THE PRESIDENT: Let me finish. Let me finish. May I finish?

He said -- the United Nations said, disarm or face serious
consequences. That's what the United Nations said. And guess what?
He didn't disarm. He didn't disclose his arms. And, therefore, he
faced serious consequences. But we have found a capacity for him to
make a weapon. See, he had the capacity to make weapons. He was
dangerous. And no one can argue that the world is better off with
Saddam -- if Saddam Hussein were in power.

Q But, Mr. President, the world is a more dangerous place
today. I don't know whether you can see that or not.

THE PRESIDENT: Why do you say that?

Q There are terrorist bombings every single day. It's now a
daily event. It wasn't like that two years ago.

THE PRESIDENT: What was it like September the 11th, 2001? It was
a -- there was a relative calm, we --

On September the 11th, 2001, we were attacked in an unprovoked
fashion. Everybody thought the world was calm. And then there have
been bombings since then -- not because of my response to Iraq. There
were bombings in Madrid. There were bombings in Istanbul. There were
bombings in Bali. There were killings in Pakistan.

Q Indeed, Mr. President, and I think Irish people understand
that. But I think there is a feeling that the world has become a more
dangerous place because you have taken the focus off al Qaeda and
diverted into Iraq. Do you not see that the world is a more dangerous
place? I saw four of your soldiers lying dead on the television the
other day, a picture of four soldiers just lying there without their
flight jackets.

THE PRESIDENT: Listen, nobody cares more about the death than I do
--

Q Is there a point or place --

THE PRESIDENT: Let me finish, please. Please. Let me finish, and
then you can follow up, if you don't mind.

Nobody cares more about the deaths than I do. I care about it a
lot. But I do believe the world is a safer place and becoming a safer
place. I know that a free Iraq is going to be a necessary part of
changing the world. Listen, people join terrorist organizations
because there's no hope and there's no chance to raise their families
in a peaceful world where there is not freedom. And so the idea is to
promote freedom, and at the same time protect our security. And I do
believe the world is becoming a better place, absolutely.

Q Mr. President, you are a man who has a great faith in God.
I've heard you say many times that you strive to serve somebody greater
than yourself.

THE PRESIDENT: Right.

Q Do you believe that the hand of God is guiding you in this
war on terror?

THE PRESIDENT: Listen, I think that God -- that my relationship
with God is a very personal relationship. And I turn to the good Lord
for strength. And I turn to the good Lord for guidance. I turn to the
good Lord for forgiveness.

But the God I know is not one that -- the God I know is one that
promotes peace and freedom. But I get great sustenance from my
personal relationship. That doesn't make me think I'm a better person
than you are, by the way. Because one of the great admonitions in the
Good Book is, don't try to take a speck out of your eye if I've got a
log in my own.

Q You're going to meet Bertie Ahern when you arrive in Shannon
Airport tomorrow. I guess he went out on a limb for you, presumably
because of the great friendship between our two countries. Can you
look him in the eye when you get there and say, it will be worth it, it
will work out?

THE PRESIDENT: Absolutely. I wouldn't be doing this, I wouldn't
have made the decisions I did if I didn't think the world would be
better. Of course. I'm not going to put people in harm's way, our
young, if I didn't think the world would be better. And --

Q Why is it that others --

THE PRESIDENT: Let me finish.

And so, yes, I can turn to my friend, Bertie Ahern, and say, thank
you, thanks for helping, and I appreciate it very much. And there will
be other challenges, by the way.

Q Why is it that others don't understand what you're about?

THE PRESIDENT: I don't know. History will judge what I'm about.
But I'm the kind of person, I don't really try to chase popular polls,
or popularity polls. My job is to do my job and make the decisions
that I think are important for our country and for the world. And I
argue strongly that the world is better off because of the decisions I
have made -- along with others. America is not in this alone. One of
our greatest allies of -- in the world is your neighbor, Great
Britain. Tony Blair has been a strong advocate for not only battling
terrorists, but promoting freedom, for which I am grateful.

Let me say one other thing about America that your viewers must
know -- is that not only are we working hard to promote security and
peace, we're also working to eradicate famine and disease. There is no
more generous country on the face of the earth than the United States
of America, when it comes to fighting HIV/AIDS. As a matter of fact,
it was my initiative --

Q Indeed, that's understood --

THE PRESIDENT: -- my initiative, that asked Congress to spend $15
billion over five years to battle this pandemic. And we're following
through on it. And no other country in the world feeds more of the
hungry than the United States. We're a compassionate nation.

Q Mr. President, I know your time is tight, can I move you on
to Europe? Are you satisfied that you are getting enough help in Iraq
from European countries? You have come together, you are more friendly
now -- but they're not really stepping up to the plate with help, are
they?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, I think, first of all, most of Europe
supported the decision in Iraq. And, really, what you're talking about
is France, isn't it? And they didn't agree with my decision. They did
vote for the U.N. Security Council resolution that said, disclose,
disarm or face serious consequences. We just had a difference of
opinion about when you say something, do you mean it.

But, nevertheless, there's no doubt in my mind President Chirac
would like to see a free and democratic and whole Iraq emerge. And
same in Afghanistan. They've been very helpful in Afghanistan.
They're willing to forgive debt in Iraq. But most European countries
are very supportive and are participating in the reconstruction of
Iraq.

Q And how do you see the handover going? The next few weeks
are going to be crucial. Can democracy really flourish with the
violence that's going on? A hundred Iraqis dead today, Mr. President.

THE PRESIDENT: I don't like death, either. I mean, you keep
emphasizing the death and I don't blame you -- but all that goes to
show is the nature of the enemy. These people are willing to kill
innocent people. They're willing to slaughter innocent people to stop
the advance of freedom. And so the free world has to make a choice:
Do we cower in the face of terror, or do we lead in the face of
terror?

And I'm going to lead in the face of terror. We will not let these
terrorists dash the hopes and ambitions of the people of Iraq. There's
some kind of attitude that says, oh, gosh, the terrorists attacked,
let's let the Iraqis suffer more. We're not going to let them suffer
more. We're going to work with them. And I'm most proud of this
fellow, Prime Minister Allawi. He's strong and he's tough. He says to
me, Mr. President, don't leave our country, help us secure our country
so we can be free.

Q Indeed, Mr. President, just to get back to that. Can I just
turn to the Middle East --

THE PRESIDENT: Sure.

Q -- and you will be discussing at the EU summit and the idea
of bringing democracy to the broader Middle East.

THE PRESIDENT: Right.

Q Is that something that really should start, though, with the
solving of the Israeli-Palestinian crisis?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, I think, first of all, you've got a democracy
in Turkey. And you've got a democracy emerging in Afghanistan. You've
got a democracy in Pakistan. In other words --

Q But shouldn't that be on the top of the list --

THE PRESIDENT: Please. Please. Please, for a minute, okay.
It'll be better if you let me finish my answers, and then you can
follow up, if you don't mind.

What I'm telling you is democracy can emerge at the same time that
a democracy can emerge in the Palestinian state. I'm the first
American President to have called for the establishment of a
Palestinian state, the first one to do so. Because I believe it is in
the Palestinian people's interest; I believe it's in Israel's
interest. And, yes, we're working. But we can do more than, you know,
one thing at a time. And we are working on the road map with the
Quartet, to advance the process down the road.

Like Iraq, the Palestinian and the Israeli issue is going to
require good security measures. And --

Q And a bit more even-handedness from America?

THE PRESIDENT: -- and we're working on security measures. And
America -- I'm the first President to ever have called for a
Palestinian state. That's, to me, sounds like a reasonable, balanced
approach. But I will not allow terrorists to determine the fate -- as
best I can, determine the fate of people who want to be free.