I was waiting for you to throw rating around. I was hoping that this discussion wouldn't succumb to that but behold, here we are. You keep say "anti-CC", CC is CC is CC. With all the problems you say that monks have with CC, you seem to have gotten a high rating. SOOO THAT SUPPORTS WHAT IM SAYING. Regardless, monks can perform at the same level. The reason to to bring a monk is purely based on preference and comp.

You make it sound like monks are crippled in the corner not able to do anything. You are wrong, proof your fantastic arena rating. You do not seem to realize that we can agree to disagree. If it came down to having 1 spot left, and there was a equally geared monk vs shaman, I would choose the monk. before you attack that, again that is a opinion, no right or wrong.

Since you seem to be hung up on my statement "You name it and a monk can get out of it" Ill rephrase it, hopefully to your satisfaction. Monks can deal with CC equally if not better than most of the other healers. If you find something wrong with that, then you are a elitistjerk that is arguing for the sake of arguing, and im ashamed to have participated.

I don't argue for the sake of argueing, i argue if someone tells something that is factually wrong, and your statement to anti cc is still wrong. Just rephrasing something that is wrong doesn't make it less wrong.
And btw I never said monks are bad, I even said from the beginning that they excel in pretty much any area: They excel in survivability, mobility, healing output, damage output and mana management. There is just one single area in which they suck and it is anti cc because they have zero anti cc and there is no other healer in the game that has zero anti cc, too. It just happens to be that anti cc is the most important area in pvp in mop due to damage and cc being out of control.
And as regard to my rating I normally don't post my ratings. I just wanted to "verify" that I know what I'm talking about and high rating happens to be the first thing wow players give credibility. Additionally me having high rating is not proving a point. In RBG I wouldn't have a lower rating if I played shaman. In 2on2 I play the (in my opinion) best comp there is, dk/monk. With every other class shaman is probably better in 2on2, just not with DK. And in 3on3 I play double heal DK because in any other comp than dual heal, monk is inferior to other healers (especially shamans) due to having no anti cc.
As i said I have no problem with agreeing to disagree on points that are up to opinion (like who's better in RBG). There just is no agreeing to disagree on facts, because they are either right or wrong.

Originally Posted by koaxialus

I would call it improved if it silenced immediately, and didn't diminish anymore. You seem to have everything figured out in this topic, but I generally agree with everything. But ring of peace did counter casters before, they usually just ran out, which essentially disabled them from play for 2 sec or so, if you placed it correctly even more if you were smart. Now it will do 3 sec silence immediately, which is nice, but if he cast in there again it's going to be diminished, and after he gets out, you could possibly counterspell him full, now it's going to be 1/3rd. So it's debatable whether it's better or not. Against melee it's definitely big nerf.

Well against melees it is going be worse because you have diminishing returns, but it is not much worse, because it will still be a strong def cd against melees.
Against casters it will be stronger because you have an instant silence, you don't have to wait for them to cast anything (in my opinion this improve against casters already outweighs it being less efficient versus melees, but you can see it otherwise, too).
But additionally - unless I read the tooltip wrong, didn't test it on the ptr - with 5.3 you can use it offensively, too, because it works on healers. You can silence a healer and thus get a completely new way of using the spell with 5.3 (which should give the ptr version the edge over the current one).

I don't argue for the sake of argueing, i argue if someone tells something that is factually wrong, and your statement to anti cc is still wrong. Just rephrasing something that is wrong doesn't make it less wrong.
And btw I never said monks are bad, I even said from the beginning that they excel in pretty much any area: They excel in survivability, mobility, healing output, damage output and mana management. There is just one single area in which they suck and it is anti cc because they have zero anti cc and there is no other healer in the game that has zero anti cc, too. It just happens to be that anti cc is the most important area in pvp in mop due to damage and cc being out of control.
And as regard to my rating I normally don't post my ratings. I just wanted to "verify" that I know what I'm talking about and high rating happens to be the first thing wow players give credibility. Additionally me having high rating is not proving a point. In RBG I wouldn't have a lower rating if I played shaman. In 2on2 I play the (in my opinion) best comp there is, dk/monk. With every other class shaman is probably better in 2on2, just not with DK. And in 3on3 I play double heal DK because in any other comp than dual heal, monk is inferior to other healers (especially shamans) due to having no anti cc.
As i said I have no problem with agreeing to disagree on points that are up to opinion (like who's better in RBG). There just is no agreeing to disagree on facts, because they are either right or wrong.

You keep saying that i am Factually wrong. Show me concise evidence, not just information based on your thoughts. Maybe a couple sources will support your claims that everyone with the OPINION that monks are better than Rsham can be enlightened.

MW has the highest damage output of all healers BY FAR. Fully geared my CJL ticks crit for 30-35k every ~0,9 seconds on high resilience targets. I wouldn't use Xuen though, not even in 2s, Chi Torpedo is too good and you do enough damage without Xuen.

My CJL ticks for that on target dummies. What on Earth is your Intellect at?

I heal in the Arena
Retired Moderator - Priest and PvPYou can follow me @UltimaMMO_C

You keep saying that i am Factually wrong. Show me concise evidence, not just information based on your thoughts. Maybe a couple sources will support your claims that everyone with the OPINION that monks are better than Rsham can be enlightened.

If you havn't got it in like the last 4 posts yet, with factually wrong I'm talking about your statements as regard to anti cc and to prove them just log onto your monk and try them out or read the tooltips of the spells.
As regard to who is better overall I didn't say that is a fact. Depends on what you lay your focus on and how much you weigh the different pvp options in the game (2on2, 3on3, 5on5, rbg, random bg, maybe even world pvp). But the majority of the people consider shaman better overall. You can see it in the first posts of this thread and there were already like 2 or 3 previous threads with the same topic in which i guess ~75% said shaman is better. But to mention it again the topic who is better overall, healmonk or shaman, is NOT a topic where there is a 100% answer the one or the other.

My CJL ticks for that on target dummies. What on Earth is your Intellect at?

For my char I have the highest intellect possible - except for set boni, there I gemmed 80int/xxx for getting them. I have 2 professions which give 320int, I have 160 int in every red socket and 80int/xxx in every other colour. Additionally I use the Shado Pan trinket with 1487 int (and you get 10% more int overall from armor specialization and selfbuff).
My armory shows 16215 int which should be a little bit over 17000 int selfbuffed.
And Jade Spirit procs very often too, so the 35k crits on high resilience targets are probably with jade spirit.

If you havn't got it in like the last 4 posts yet, with factually wrong I'm talking about your statements as regard to anti cc and to prove them just log onto your monk and try them out or read the tooltips of the spells.
As regard to who is better overall I didn't say that is a fact. Depends on what you lay your focus on and how much you weigh the different pvp options in the game (2on2, 3on3, 5on5, rbg, random bg, maybe even world pvp). But the majority of the people consider shaman better overall. You can see it in the first posts of this thread and there were already like 2 or 3 previous threads with the same topic in which i guess ~75% said shaman is better. But to mention it again the topic who is better overall, healmonk or shaman, is NOT a topic where there is a 100% answer the one or the other.

For my char I have the highest intellect possible - except for set boni, there I gemmed 80int/xxx for getting them. I have 2 professions which give 320int, I have 160 int in every red socket and 80int/xxx in every other colour. Additionally I use the Shado Pan trinket with 1487 int (and you get 10% more int overall from armor specialization and selfbuff).
My armory shows 16215 int which should be a little bit over 17000 int selfbuffed.
And Jade Spirit procs very often too, so the 35k crits on high resilience targets are probably with jade spirit.

Running with 15300 Int self-buffed. My trinkets are [Soothing Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault] and [Scroll of Revered Ancestors]. Are you suggesting I replace [Willful Vermilion Onyx] for 160 Intellect gems in every Red slot + belt buckle? That's quite the Resi drop.

I heal in the Arena
Retired Moderator - Priest and PvPYou can follow me @UltimaMMO_C

Running with 15300 Int self-buffed. My trinkets are [Soothing Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault] and [Scroll of Revered Ancestors]. Are you suggesting I replace [Willful Vermilion Onyx] for 160 Intellect gems in every Red slot + belt buckle? That's quite the Resi drop.

When it comes to gems there is no best way. You have to consider two things first: spirit and resilience. Depending on how comfortable you are with your char, how good your gear is and what your playstyle is like, you gem as much spirit and resilience until you don't go oom and don't die. After that you go for healing output and until 5.3 int is your best healing stat.
Because monks have such a good mana management and high survivability 3 gems with 80int/160 spirit and 80int/160 resilience each works for me to not go oom and not die. I've seen other high rated monks that have like 1500 spirit or 1500 resilience more than me. Really depends on what you are comfortable with.

Go Monk. Imo they're the best healer in the game if not 2nd, and with the ROP change and ability to use Nimble brew as a MW are going to make them alot stronger then they already are now. Also I'd argue that Revival might be the best cooldown in the game, next to heroism/bl.

2v2 = arguably the best healer
3v3 = Not great, but with the nimble brew 5.3 buff and ROP change you'll see more
RBG = Hands down the best healer. You need a MW monk just as much as you need a DK or Boomy. ROP and Revival combined can be game changers.

If you prefer arena's over rated battlegrounds, I would go shaman over monk by far considering their current status at the moment. But MW monks are pretty good at healing mass members of a raid group in BGs

This game was never for me about playing the most op class/spec combo and i do belive every class will have the time to shine, present or future.

I started to play rbg and arena casual on my monk, and i really love my spells and cooldowns. Whats bad for someone else may be good for you. Also consider whats comming in the future, if you struggle hard now will make you have great training and will only make future fixes more powerful for those that really learnt to play without those.

Yah im talking about monk.

Stay with what you enjoy most. Be aware that shamans probably will be brought down to be par with other healers due to the big representation, and monks will probably be changed to be brought up to be par with other healers due there low representation.

As for the anit-cc thing monks are the best healer while silenced(excluding am). You can use chi torpedo, sck, and fistweave and those all will heal you while silenced. So right now we are not good for arenas but next patch I think we will.

Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

thanks so much for all or your input ive been away for a week hence me not replying sooner !
i think the problem is im a big fan of both of the classes but dont really have the time to be competitive on both
just a rwal hard choice

I am currently stuck on if i should stay with MW Monk or Reroll Shaman, I got 2k with my MW Monk in 3s but i feel that i can do way better and that MW Monk is holding me back. I feel that every other healer has something that MW don't, and idk what that thing is lol!. Hopefully Nimble Brew helps them out, but i'm doubtful that it will. This is more long term thing, and i think Rshaman is/always has been the better healer long term. I guess i should go on the PTR and see how things are. Opinions?

I am currently stuck on if i should stay with MW Monk or Reroll Shaman, I got 2k with my MW Monk in 3s but i feel that i can do way better and that MW Monk is holding me back. I feel that every other healer has something that MW don't, and idk what that thing is lol!. Hopefully Nimble Brew helps them out, but i'm doubtful that it will. This is more long term thing, and i think Rshaman is/always has been the better healer long term. I guess i should go on the PTR and see how things are. Opinions?

If you are only talking about 3on3, Shaman is obviously much better at the moment. If the changes from the ptr go live as they are now (nimble brew + RoP change) you should be very competitive with MW (even overpowered in my opinion).
To say that shaman has always been the better healer is pretty pointless, because monks have only been around since MoP.
The safer bet would probably be Shaman, because its spells were finetuned over a long period of time. Without a complete class overhaul healmonks are very hard to balance (in my opinion) and blizzard won't do a class overhaul for pve reasons. They have many "ridiculous" spells/skills (like Ring of Peace, Dematerialize, Diffuse Magic, Revival, Healing Spheres...) and therefore tend to be either extremely good or extremely bad in different categories in pvp. So there is only a really small line in which the class would be balanced. And since we know that blizzard has no clue how to balance the game in pvp whatsoever I wouldn't bet on healmonks being balanced anytime in the near future.