tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1071963771262525979.post1302548027717653270..comments2020-05-27T11:25:37.592-05:00Comments on Blue Blurry Lines: Cash-Landrum Theory & Analysis: Unpublished 2002 Wim van Utrecht ArticleCurt Collinshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13773941506205598439noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1071963771262525979.post-56269786333354275782013-11-29T22:41:45.673-06:002013-11-29T22:41:45.673-06:00Tim, I finished surveying the early case articles,...Tim, I finished surveying the early case articles, here&#39;s every mention I could find that might relate to cloud conditions:<br /><br />Landrum said once home she saturated herself and Colby with baby oil because they both were sunburned about the face and neck. “I thought maybe we’d been chapped by the wind or something because we’d been out most of the day,” she said. “there wasn’t no sun that day. it was real cloudy. it couldn’t have been sunburn from the sun.”<br />The Courier (Conroe Texas) story by Cathy Gordon Feb. 22, 1981<br /><br /> John F. Schuessler: “…the sky was relatively clear and the rain had stopped…”<br />1981 CUFOS Symposium<br /><br />Narration- not JS quote:<br />“It was a cold cloudy evening on Dec. 29…”<br />The Houston Chronicle, TX, Sept 25, 1981<br /><br />John F. Schuessler: “The day of 29 December 1980 had been damp and overcast in Texas.”<br />&quot;Light from the third-quarter Moon, supplemented an airglow from the lights in the surrounding area, made the sky bright and the visibility good.&quot;<br />Brookesmith, Peter, ed. The Age of the UFO. Orbis Publishing, London, 1984, p.<br />The Unexplained Mysteries of Mind, Space and Time, Vol 9, Issue 107, 1982. <br />(Later collected in The Age of the UFO, P. Brookesmith, 1984)<br /> <br /><br />LL Walker: “...I looked a little bit closer and you could see some lower lights back off in the distance quite a ways back. I&#39;d say about % of a mile — real good visibility that night...”<br />MUFON Journal October 1982 (from the 1982 interview)<br /><br />J. Schuessler:<br />&quot;The weather ranged from clear and hot to cold, damp, windy, and chilly. Houston, Texas air contains a lot of moisture which acts like little crystals that catch all light from the city, moon and cars and reflect it in an airglow manner that leaves the sky very light much of the time. A deep, dark night in the Houston area is unusual. pg 5<br /><br />&quot;The weather on December 29, 1980 was chilly. The witnesses reported the intermittent misty rain earlier in the day. By evening that had stopped. The clouds were high and broken and the moon was in the third quarter. The air was damp and full of moisture. The airglow of Houston was bright. The conditions were correct for being able to see helicopters flying at night. pg. 6&quot;<br />MUFON Journal September 1983 (John Schuessler)<br /><br />John F. Schuessler:<br />“The sky had partially cleared and the moon was visible in the night sky.”<br />“Because of the light of the moon and the helicopters’ running lights, the craft were clearly visible.”<br />Fate Magazine, May 1984 (Volume 37, No. 5 Issue 410) Clark Publishing Co. pg 32-36 (Victims of a Close Encounter <br /><br />This is how it was reported, but then, we&#39;ve seen that what was said about the Moon didn&#39;t check out.Curt Collinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13773941506205598439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1071963771262525979.post-80735453281946540652013-11-29T12:58:48.580-06:002013-11-29T12:58:48.580-06:00I stand corrected regarding such effects being vis...I stand corrected regarding such effects being visible in Houston. I am impressed and feel a bit more confidence in this potential explanation.<br /><br />Something not addressed is the weather that night. Was it cloudy or clear? It appears to have been an overcast sky based on weather underground. I thought I had read it was cold and clear?Tim Printyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06115389684481839803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1071963771262525979.post-39890731923811686762013-11-28T17:30:29.692-06:002013-11-28T17:30:29.692-06:00Wim Van Utrecht Replies:
&quot;Hi Tim,
Tim writ...Wim Van Utrecht Replies:<br /><br />&quot;Hi Tim,<br /> <br />Tim writes &quot;Houston, Texas is not really an area where ice crystals can form except at high elevations&quot;. That&#39;s right, but the explanation I suggested for the CASH/LANDRUM sighting IS about “Artificial Light Pillars in HIGH Cloud”, not about light pillars forming in ice mist or in ice-crystal layers drifting a couple of hundred meter above the ground. From Table I at http://www.caelestia.be/article01b.html one can deduce that the reflections we are concerned with occur at altitudes roughly between 3 and 7 km (10,000 and 23,000 feet), and naturally halfway between the observer and the light source. We are talking about elongated mirrored images of very bright lights (like the 100 feet high flames that can be seen when gases are burned off at petrochemical plants). Nothing to do with lights illuminating a low cloud deck, but everything with billions of tiny ice-crystals plates tumbling down and forming a gigantic mirror in the sky. Contrary to what I assumed when I first started studying this phenomenon, the reflections can also occur in the Summer (see the aforementioned table). Low latitudes are not a problem either. <br /> <br />In an earlier mail to Curt, I wrote that the Houston area had a long history of flares at petrochemical plants creating strange lights in the sky (see also note 3 at http://www.caelestia.be/article01a.html). Actually, light pillars in high cloud have been observed over refineries since the early years of oil production. Attached is a PDF file of a couple of observations that were published in the Texas Observers’ Bulletin during the 1930s and 1940s. <br /> <br />Also from the Houston area is this picture - out of focus, alas - of a series of light pillars photographed from the George Observatory at Houston: http://www.caelestia.be/OP-PH-08.html.<br /> <br />Just to point out that I’m not inventing things here.<br /> <br />Very best regards,<br /> <br />Wim&quot;<br /><br />I&#39;ve uploaded Wim&#39; PDF attachment of the Texas Observers’ Bulletin at<br />https://app.box.com/s/fqbe23nvn051wy62e2bwCurt Collinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13773941506205598439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1071963771262525979.post-24233119745966959752013-11-28T15:59:35.209-06:002013-11-28T15:59:35.209-06:00I can&#39;t answer for Wim, but need to state that...I can&#39;t answer for Wim, but need to state that &quot;his closing comment&quot; was not in the original article, but from an email describing the case that I took the liberty of including, possibly an editorial error. <br /><br />Wim also candidly discusses the places where his theory does not fit so well. He&#39;s offering this genuine phenomenon as a possible explanation of the UFO, and is continuing to examine sources of reflection that might have accounted for it. <br /><br />One other thing, in Wim&#39;s original draft, he included a case that he later found out was caused by another stimulus. He requested I omit the case. Wim has demonstrated that the facts matter, and when he makes a mistake will see that it gets corrected. <br /><br />As a footnote, I just want to say that I&#39;m encouraging discussion on this case and welcoming new opinions. <br /> Curt Collinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13773941506205598439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1071963771262525979.post-26651271370186951292013-11-28T15:31:25.371-06:002013-11-28T15:31:25.371-06:00Light Pillars is an interesting theory, and the ph...Light Pillars is an interesting theory, and the photographs of them are striking. Of course, we don&#39;t have any information on how long an exposure is required to capture one clearly on film, so how brilliant one of them would appear to the naked eye has to be considered. Nevertheless, for all these bizarre photos, has there been one other instance of a witness to an proven light pillar ever claiming it descended in front of them, belching flames, and exuding intense heat with a deafening roar and intermittent beeps? If light pillars are common enough to have this many photographs of them, then it would seem reasonable to expect that here and there we would find reports of events somewhat similar to the Cash-Landrum incident. <br /> In the Cash-Landrum case, the road was virtually north-south, so their viewing angle did not change during the main encounter. Are there facts establishing how far off the line of sight the light pillar phenomenon can vary and move? If the C-L case had been something like a light pillar, then for Mr. van Utrecht&#39;s theory to work he would need an explanation for how this optical-effect could come in from the left..stop over the road and hover up and down for several minutes..then rise again and move off to the right. The witnesses looked directly south during the main encounter, but a few minutes later, driving to another point of view, they were looking basically westward, and still could see the object, now surrounded by helicopters. Furthermore, the intense heat described so clearly by the witnesses, enough to heat the car door handle, is something that I suspect negates any attempt to rationalize the light pillar explanation (and Purrlgurrl&#39;s direct experience of never feeling heat from refineries near her is about as evidentiary as it can get.)<br /> For this phenomenon to be force-fitted onto the C-L case requires far to many pseudo-explanations and fixes (such as the helicopters being there, but on a speculative &#39;rescue mission&#39; (if so, wouldn&#39;t the news channels be full of the story?))<br />It&#39;s an interesting phenomenon in itself, and a good article as far as pointing out how vertical &#39;light pillars&#39; can occur and might be misinterpreted. But Mr. van Utrecht seems to be trying to selectively choose aspects that he thinks might be stretched-to-fit this case, and pushing aside others that would blow the theory. At best, his closing comment, &quot;..there is no doubt in my mind that the first phase of the CASH/LANDRUM incident was indeed caused by an atmospheric reflection of a bright flame.&quot;, displays how strongly he wants to believe his own theory. But the facts in this specific case do not warrant such conviction, and the article would be better served by not stating such a conclusion in the face of all the holes in the theory as far as explaining away the Cash-Landrum encounter.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02760798197042319757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1071963771262525979.post-43064154856291430702013-11-28T09:24:39.492-06:002013-11-28T09:24:39.492-06:00Tim, thanks for stopping by. I&#39;m hoping Wim wi...Tim, thanks for stopping by. I&#39;m hoping Wim will reply to your comments and question. <br />Thanks also for your help in documenting the Moon visibility on Dec. 29, 1980, for the article: <br />http://www.blueblurrylines.com/2013/11/schuessler-moons-ufo-community-saucer.htmlCurt Collinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13773941506205598439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1071963771262525979.post-66279934875665842392013-11-28T08:46:13.447-06:002013-11-28T08:46:13.447-06:00As much as I like the hypothesis offered, I have t...As much as I like the hypothesis offered, I have to consider it a lot probability solution. Houston, Texas is not really an area where ice crystals can form except at high elevations. I grew up in Jacksonville, Florida and the weather is comparable. You get cold nights but not as cold as more northern climates where this can occur. <br />As an aside, I noticed that weather underground indicates the weather in Houston was &quot;Overcast&quot; that night. I always thought it was clear for some reason.<br />http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KHOU/1980/12/29/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&amp;req_state=NA&amp;req_statename=NA<br />Do I have something wrong here?<br />If the sky was &quot;overcast&quot;, could it be possible that a flame could have been bright enough to reflect off the clouds? I recall seeing a large building (that was spotlit) reflect on an overcast sky in the early 1970s. Just something to consider.Tim Printyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06115389684481839803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1071963771262525979.post-72981159028039448132013-11-25T16:36:12.537-06:002013-11-25T16:36:12.537-06:00purrlgurrl, I tend to agree with you, but I simply...purrlgurrl, I tend to agree with you, but I simply am not familiar enough with the phenomenon to say. Obviously, it doesn&#39;t fully account for many other elements in the case, but I&#39;m glad Wim has taken a serious look at it, and considered that there was a genuine event at the core of the story. I&#39;m hoping Wim will offer further opinions once he&#39;s had a chance to absorb more of the recent material.<br /><br />Oh, before I forget, thanks for describing the characteristics surrounding a refinery area, and the effects you&#39;ve seen. Its always good to have details like that to better understand the terrain in a scenario. Curt Collinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13773941506205598439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1071963771262525979.post-220340824557425452013-11-25T14:25:26.813-06:002013-11-25T14:25:26.813-06:00For what it&#39;s worth, there are two major oil r...For what it&#39;s worth, there are two major oil refineries within 30-50 miles of where we live, so I&#39;m accustomed to seeing the large flares from waste burn off when driving past them, and from home the flare light shining on and through the clouds that can sometimes look like light from a major wildfire raging in the nearby mountains. The temperature here goes to freezing and below in winter, and we see rainbows and halos around the moon and sun from ice crystals in the air. <br /><br />I&#39;ve never seen (nor has anyone here with whom I&#39;ve shared the piece) the pillars of light or other reflective phenomena as described and attributed to refinery flares (among other sources) by van Utrecht. <br /><br />By the way, we&#39;ve never felt heat near the refineries. After all, the big flares are occurring very high above our heads and heat rises. A strong downdraft would be needed to feel heat from them. Any lower-to-the-ground burn offs must take place deep inside the refinery grounds, not near the perimeter, because we&#39;ve never seen them. These are likely too far away to feel their heat from outside (these refineries take up as much square mileage as a military base). <br /><br />So, it seems unlikely to me the witnesses might possibly have felt heat from a refinery (if anyone wants to jump to that conclusion). And, the explanation that the heat experienced was merely an imagined sensation caused by witness panic after seeing a &quot;flame-like&quot; object is a very long and thin stretch by van Utrecht. I, for one, can&#39;t take that at all seriously.<br /><br />I&#39;m not saying the atmospheric phenomena van Utrecht describes don&#39;t exist and can&#39;t happen. Instead, I suspect they are more rare (probably why they&#39;re so obscure) than he states, and might require not only relatively unusual, ephemeral atmospheric conditions but also a local terrain that is somehow conducive to creating them. Therefore, they might occur in some locations but not in others, which is why they&#39;ve not been seen in our area that anyone can remember. This doesn&#39;t automatically rule them out as an explanation for the Cash-Landrum case. But rather seems to indicate we should be cautious about reaching any conclusion based on van Utrecht&#39;s material.<br />purrlgurrlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06519835482606629362noreply@blogger.com