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Monday, July 09, 2012

ELMONT, NY, July 9, 2012—To Whom It May Concern:

If I had the name of an actual person or organization I can speak with, I have an idea that might help increase betting handle in New York unless, of course, no one is interested in spending money to make more money.

I know that’s a radical concept these days but I wish someone would try it.

I was at Belmont Park Saturday for the Suburban Handicap, a race I described in an advance story as a Grade 1 masquerading as a Grade 2. The Suburban did not disappoint as Mucho Macho Man came up with one of the top performances of 2012.

Anyway, a veteran New York turf writer told me that for the first time in his career covering the New York Racing Association, he didn’t know who to call in the event of an emergency or with a big-picture question.

Since the firing of former President and CEO Charlie Hayward, there’s no longer an absolute go-to person when any serious issues arise. This doesn’t surprise everyone since many say that the NYRA has been on automatic pilot for years.

Sadly, that has a ring of truth: If it were not for the fact that NYRA owns some of the best support staff in the industry--from officials to administrators to backstretch personnel to security—all departments, really--the show could not possibly go on.

However, sometimes you need to speak with someone in charge. The only one I can think of would be NYRA Board Chairman C. Steven Duncker, but he’s been virtually invisible since he assumed the role in 2005 after helping NYRA retain its franchise.

I have something I’d like to see done, and it’s a little thing, really, but one that has a positive effect on the bottom line. It helps all customers, really; fractional wagering.

Now before anyone’s underwear gets twisted in a knot, we’re not talking about the anything new here; nothing to send in, no box-tops to clip. And even if the bottom line didn’t benefit, customer service is priceless, right?

I mentioned the following issue to Hayward in Saratoga a few years ago; he said he would look into it but apparently never found the time. Like I said, it’s a little thing, but one that can have a positive effect once on-track players know they have another option when making certain simulcast bets.

The issue is why offer simulcast wagering if you have no intention to offer the same betting menu in place at the simulcast venue? The issue re-surfaced on Saturday but I first became aware some years ago when I tried to place self-service 50-Cent trifecta wagers on Arlington Million day but couldn’t; the reason I sought out Hayward.

Even though 50-Cent trifectas are available at some of NYRA’s simulcast partners, their full betting menu is not available at New York tracks. Why?

I can think of two reasons: Either NYRA does not want to make an investment in writing new computer code allowing such wagers to be placed on self-service betting machines, or they don’t want to give an edge in a competitive betting marketplace:

The fear that the casual bettor, the customer racing covets, might not invest in $1 NYRA trifectas if his dollars can go twice as far in a 50-Cent pool is typically short-sighted. Or perhaps it’s strictly business; NYRA gets a larger slice of the take from the live product.

Or maybe it’s because NYRA can’t offer the wager by statute because it doesn’t offer 50-Cent trifectas on its races. If that’s the case, it’s more parochial thinking but all parties concerned.

The benefit of fractional wagering is that it puts bettors in pools they might normally avoid due to the link between cost and degree of difficulty.

If NYRA has the will, all that it needs to do is make a simple request to the State Racing & Wagering Board permitting it to offer any fractional wager at simulcast tracks with which NYRA does business. Recall that New York bettors were allowed to wager on Dime Superfectas before they were available locally.

It’s instructive to note there was a time when I asked a former NYRA executive about why superfecta wagering at the time was not allowed in races with stable couplings when trifectas were: If both members of an entry finished in two of the top three positions, the trifecta was completed by the horse that finished fourth. I asked whether he thought horseplayers were unable to count to five.

He said it wasn’t a logistical issue but that such “favors”--like changes to its betting menu--were granted if there were some quid pro quo for the state, such as, say, a rise in takeout. I asked a SRWB operative the same question. He explained it was more about “setting agendas,” that there might be more urgent matters to discuss, etc., etc.

After a while, I stopped asking.

When Dime Supers began to become popular, bean counters explained that the bet was wasn’t good for them because it only cannibalized money from the trifecta pool. At first, this was true, but Superfecta handle has grown considerably and the Trifecta remains as popular as ever.

Why shouldn’t a 50-Cent wager help increase Trifecta handle in the same way Dimes did the Super?

Handle is important not only for bottom line considerations but for pool liquidity. Without sizable pools, sizable bets cannot be sustained. It lessens potential payouts for big and small bettors alike. Fractional betting grows the game and keeps bettors liquid longer.

So that’s my issue: I want to bet simulcast tracks as if I was there and at a rate I can afford. Keep me liquid and I’ll keep betting.

Is there anyone alive out there who can help me and my fellow horseplayers with this?

I’m so sorry. Sorry you are not interested in learning because apparently you have all the keys to the game. But you’re finished th learning. You’ve worked, paid your bills, now you just want to go down to the OTB with your buddies and bet the same way you’ve betting all your life.

I have a mantra, when it comes to gambling, or just anything else that interests me for that matter: Grow or die.

This isn’t about making fifty cent bets per se. This is 40 50-Cent bets for $20, or whatever your comfort level is. This is about buying twice as many combinations, 40 different Tris, as opposed to 20. Greater coverage; betting defensively AND aggressively. Leverage. Making your money work for you.

Want to beat a favorite you respect? Then use him for 50-Cents and take the value horses you prefer for $1, or $5, for any amount you want.

This is about liquidity; yours, mine and everyone else’s. Bankroll management is as important as picking winners; no more. no less.

And as Steve Forbert says--Cat will like this: You cannot win if you do not play.

Finally, here’s a column about GAMBLING, not the Derby, or the Eclipse Awards, or the NTRA Poll. It’s about a subject close to your heart. And what do you I want from you, or anyone else who contributes regularly here?

Why should any logical, bettor-friendly idea ever be implemented? For that matter, where is the “new” NYRA reconstruction Board? With nobody in charge, no one gets the blame! Its a game of musical chairs where the only loser,i.e., the party sans chair, is the racing public.

Oh Andrew, where for art thou, Andrew? You wanted NYRA’s tuchus, now you got it! However, now that you have it, what do you do with it? Is this any way to run a multi-billion industry? In the Empire State no less? Congratulations, Andrew, we are the laughing stock of a nation. You have made the bed, now you can fry in it!

As for our old friend Wendell, the $2 minimum bet that you fondly remember, is a 20th Century anachronism. Yours truly actually spoke to H. Pack about reducing the minimum to one dollar back in 1979, and Harvey told me that it would be done. Thus, since 1980, NYRA has had the one dollar minimum for all bets, other than the pick 6. This was way before all of the other jurisdictions found nirvana with dimes and quarters. Your wish is 30 years late and a dollar too long!

To your point..
last August the Canadian Pari-Mutuel Agency (CPMA) approved fractional wagering on US tracks. In Sept fractional wagers were approved on Canadian tracks. Starting last Oct. both Can and US horseplayers were able to make fractional wagers on Can. tracks. But as of today Canadian horseplayers still cannot make fractional wagers on US tracks.

I have suggested to the CPMA that this is an issue of competitive fairness. Canadian horseplayers are competing on an unlevel playing field vs their US wagering competitors, yet US horseplayers are able to compete on a level playing field in Canadian fractional pools. The CPMA’s reply was that this is outside of their mandate, hmmmm.

Woodbine who is spearheading the US fractional wagering initiative indicated in May:
“After considerable efforts, the ability to bet in fractional amounts (20 cent increments – minimum available in Canada) on U.S. racing is very near, but the final steps are now out of our control, as we are waiting for American host tracks to complete the necessary updates to their systems.

I’m thinking that if the CPMA didn’t allow US horseplayers to make fractional wagers on Canadian races until Canadians could make fractional wagers on US races, the ‘final steps’ would have been completed long ago!....just saying…

I love the 50 cent minimum NYRA offers on Pick 4’s and would like to see them on other bets as well.

I finally feel like a big time player!

I can now play multiple tickets to emphasize my top picks and also cover a wider variety of possibilities. It’s like a whole new world has opened up to me. It’s the best thing that’s happened in the 40 years I’ve been playing horses.

The only thing better would be the 20 cent minimum on Pick 4’s the Woodbine Entertainment Group offers on flats and harness.

JP,
What are the chances that people who understand gambling and gamblers will be appointed to the new NYRA Board and the SRWB? Balancing demand among diverse interests and disparate bankroll sizes is obviously a skill not mastered throughout the industry. Winning or losing, profit or entertainment, puzzle or excitement, passion or obsession, whatever – NYRA’s futire success will depend upon maximizing both the number of players and handle volume that come back for play another day and minimizing the number of players driven away and kept away.

The fact that so many different tracks have so many different rules regarding the fractional amounts (or lack thereof) on any different type of bet personifies the stupidity, and that they do not know what the hell they are doing, or why.

You are correct Mr. Pricci. I have worked, paid my bills, retired, realized by golf game has gone south, and now all I want to do is go daily to the local OTB or casino and GAMBLE on the ponies. I spend considerable time handicapping the plodders and always use one or two plodders in a race, never more, and I cash tickets at the same percentage as just about every other serious GAMBLER - 33%. As I have stated, wagering menus at racetracks that allow wager amounts of less than $2 per wager have destroyed the uniqueness of Thoroughbred racing that had set it apart from all other forms of gambling. Now having 10 cent supers and 50 cent options has eliminated the need for learned handicapping skills and made gambling on the ponies no different that sitting in front of a slot machine - no skills required, just play numbers. Do you and readers here at HRI really, truly believe that penny wagers are what racing needs to regain its former glory? Instead, shouldn’t all effort be directed to convincing people that gambling on Thoroughbred racing is challenging and rewarding, and superior to casino gambling? And, for starters, it would help tremendously if turf writers promoted gambling instead of the horse (said this all before at least a hundred times).

The 10 cent and 50 cent wagers merely entice people to play more combinations foolishly, instead of using their head and making solid selections, while forgetting that the payoff has been reduced considerably.

BTW, you horseplayers out there. Has your bankroll gotten fatter since you dropped down to penny wagers and worked the ‘all’ button consistently?

You say eether and I say eyether,
You say neether and I say nyther,
Eether, eyether, neether, nyther,
Let’s call the whole thing off!
You like potato and I like potahto,
You like tomato and I like tomahto,
Potato, potahto, tomato, tomahto!

The Horseracing community will never get along.

Churchill does it their way. Saratoga does it their way.
Some people play win, place and show. Some only exotics.
Some have big bank rolls. Some have small.
Some like small tracks. Some like big.
Some like the pick six. Some the pick three.
Some are serious gamblers. Some are for entertainment.
Some like OTB. Some like internet. Some like the trackside.
Some like the clubhouse. Some the grandstand.
Some call horses athletes. Some call them plodders.
Some are diehard fans. Some are casual.
Some call it a sport. Some a game.
Some think fractional wagering is good for the game. Some are for old school wagering.

The HRI family is alive out there. None of the governing bodies are yet.

Yes, my bankroll has gotten fatter and I’ll give an example of what happened two Saturdays ago.

I played Pick 4’s in 50 cent increments at the OTB on Belmont. After having winners in the first 3 legs, I was alive to 5 horses, with twice as much on my top picks as my secondary picks. The race ended in a photo finish involving 1 of each. The possible payoffs (which I recorded) based on $2 payoffs were $1300 for my top pick and $2800 for the other - so I stood to collect either $650 ($325 twice) or $700. As it turned out the shorter one won and I was very happy to get the $325 twice.

I have several more examples just from the last month involving other techniques which I employ, such as successfully covering myself with doubles, pick 3’s and exactas during the course of a Pick4.

Tim, That’s why they have toteboards at the races, gamblers tend to have different opinions. We are betting against each other mostly.

DennyM, Do not try to rationalize with WMC. He will ignore you until you supply your last name, DOB, address, phone # and SS#. Furthermore, do not; drivel, use musical lyrics, use fictional names like past horses and claim to know which end of the horse farts. Thankyou for your time, input and understanding.

And you, of the tender years can’t know the fears that your elders grew by,
And so please help them with your youth, they seek the truth before they can die.
Teach your parents well, their children’s hell will slowly go by,
And feed them on your dreams, the one they fix,the one you’ll know by.
Don’t you ever ask them why, if they told you, you would cry,
So just look at them and sigh and know they love you.

I sometimes am alive with $2 wagers, just that I have 4 x .50 cent bets.
For someone who’s been playing as long as you have, you seem to have forgotten something very important. Or do you like ‘signing’?

wmc,
Not content to dictate the purse levels of races others should bet, you want to control wager minimums and eliminate the ALL button. It would be hilarious except that sometimes the industry behaves as if it regards utterances such as yours as typical of its customers.

Perhaps you actually believe the nonsense you dispense here, but some might see it as pretense at the expense of intellectual honesty. Coming from one retired with the time, health, passion, and resources to play everyday at one’s desired level, the suggestion that others play at a level beyond what their personal criteria/circumstances determine, seems disingenuous at best.

Hi,let me start by saying I am new here But I met you eons ago at the world series of handicapping at Penn national (1978 I believe )
Steve forbert! Wow..big fan..saw him many time at “my fathers place” in Roslyn
I remember when going to the track was a pleasant experience,but that was long ago
Everything (almost)done at new York tracks screams to me “stay home”
I want to keep my post brief so I’ll leave by saying that I am glad I found this place
...mark

I dispense facts, not pretense. You, the contributors, and the commentators at HRI have all
totally ignored the ONLY reason that Thoroughbred racing is now on life support, kept alive by extraneous income: slot revenue and casino dole.

Stake races, more exotic wagering options, and reductions in minimum wagers have done nothing to slow Thoroughbred racing’s decline in popularity. Drugs, integrity issues, and takeout have nothing to do with the empty stands at racetracks.

The ONLY reason Thoroughbred racing is heading south is that people are now GAMBLING elsewhere.
Casinos and sports betting have stolen racing’s crowd, which should mean to you and all turf writers that people at one time went to the racetrack to GAMBLE, and once gambling became available elsewhere they departed in droves; that
Thoroughbred racing’s attraction prior to 1980 was
the betting window not the horse, as turf writers coast-to-coast worked the keyboard promoting stake races, horses, trainers, and jockeys giving the impression that Thoroughbred racing was a sport.

So, thirty years later, the horse and the stake race is still promoted as the attraction! Hello?

You and Mr. Pricci mention intellectual honesty. Look in the mirror.

“Play it again, Sam”. It’s all about gambling, about cashing tickets, about making money. “Thanks, Sam.”

John,
The correct term for this request is “minimum bet value”, not “fractional wagering”. “Fractional wagering” breaks down, say, a $20 bet into equal pieces (fractions) of a multiple bet, whereby a “minimum bet value” increments the chosen value for each combination. Say you wanted a $5 “fractional wager” on a 3 horse exact box - that would give 83 cents (a 1/6 fraction of the wager cost) on each combination and paying proportionally. “Minimum bet value” of 50 cents would cost $3 for that 3 horse exacta box bet. Minimum bet value would have no development programming costs, just a “setup” value in the tote systems - not sure about the regulation requirements. Fractional wagering does exist in other parts of the world (and in US lottery bets) and is being looked at as a development/implementation effort by tote companies in the US. It may add confusion to the sellers, so be careful what you wish for.
Lots of other options as well, but just wanted to make the point that if the proper request is made, it may get done.....

Above, Mr. Kling (who like you identifies himself, and is like you an excellent handicapper) informs me that ‘you need a lesson in why casinos succeed’; his believe is that nickel and dime slot machines have propelled Vegas casinos into prosperity and growth. Well, he is wrong. Casinos wouldn’t survive without bettors wagering a hell of a lot more.

Several friends,(six), employees at Vegas casinos and in upper management, concur in that profitability does not come from nickel and dime slot machines, but from people wagering much more.

So, we find that the current thought by HRI commentators is that fifty-cent wagers and dime supers are the future. Ya gotta be kidding!

Lowering the minimum from $2 to cents is utterly ridiculous. All that is accomplished, pointed out by a few commentators above, is that a bettor can avoid the ‘signing’ if and when a score is made (existing hardcore bettors).

Sure, cents wagering keeps a horseplayer in the game longer. Big deal. Better to be broke going into the fifth, than hanging around and going broke in the ninth.

How do you think Jane and Joe on the corner at main street would react to you approaching them and saying “if you go to the racetrack, casino, or local OTB you can gamble on the horses for dimes.” Think that would entice them? Their first thought would be, must be a cheap place.

Well anyway, I am in an expansive mood today, as I am doing very well wagering on Delaware today.
Got the bar bill for the day paid after the second race.

“Sam, you there? Play it again, please.” It’s all about gambling, about cashing tickets, about making money. “Thanks, Sam.”

In an above comment, Mr. Kling wrote that I “need a lesson in why casinos succeed;” his position being that nickel and dime slots are the core of casino gambling in Vegas. Thus, he is supporting Thoroughbred racing’s move to fifty-cent wagers and dime supers. Well he is wrong, very wrong!

According to friends employed in Vegas casinos, three in upper management, casinos don’t make a profit with nickel and quarter slots; they are there to bring in a crowd. Profitability comes from gamblers who wager a hell of a lot more money.

So, what has and will dime supers and fifty-cent wagers accomplish for Thoroughbred racing? The prevailing theory is that more bettors will stay in the ‘game’ longer; what a bunch of crap this assumption is. Isn’t it better to go broke in the fifth than hang around and go broke in the ninth?

Visualize approaching Jane and Joe on the corner of main street and informing them that they can gamble on the ponies for only a dime or fifty cents; their conclusion would be ‘what a cheap joint’.

The vast majority of people who gamble have disposable income, thus they can afford to lose.
Wagers of a dime or fifty-cents merely draw the same people who purchase Power Ball - all hoping for the miracle. Thoroughbred racing is going to grow on dime and fifty-cent bets? Again, ya gotta be kidding!

I’m not so sure about “fractional” wagering. When you and I started doing this the minimum bet was two dollars. By just about any measure that old two dollars is at least twenty today. Racing needs to stop ignoring inflation before the amounts most people bet on a race dwindle to nothing.

That’s a very good distiction you make. The reason I used “fractinal wagering” is because that’s how most of the public refers to it.
By definition, however, you are correct. I’ll try to remember the distiction next time I write on the subject.
And, yes, I have heard of the “fractional wagering” concept yo describe: Going up to the window with a $10 bill and asking the clerk to box the 1-2-3 exacta; comes to something like $1.66 per ducat as opposed to the conventional $1 box ($6) or $2 variety ($12). Point taken.

ML, it’s not an “inflation” issue, it’s a bankroll management issue; one can always buy 20 50-Cent Trifectas if he wishes.

You’ve got to be kidding me! Now, somebody wants to attribute the cause for the failure to allow FRACTIONAL WAGERING to the term being used? It is obvious how this term originated, needs no explanation, and is perfectly acceptable.

It is also obvious that those who have the power to allow FRACTIONAL WAGERING in any given pari-mutuel pool, refuse to do so, as they believe that doing so would reduce the amount of money they take in on that particular wager. The same completely wrong thinking applies to allowing only certain types of wagers, instead of all wager types on every race. Their attempts to restrain trade and control the monies that people wager fail miserably; a basic economic principal. Free trade is the only answer, the only thing that works, and will maximize handle overall. Electronically and using self-service, you should be allowed to wager a dime on any super-exotic wager, and $1.00 on win, place, show and exacta/quinella. Handle would skyrocket.

JP, trying to find the correct person to make the change is impossible; nobody in power wants to stick their necks out, even if they believed what I am writing here. Cowards; you don’t have to look far to find them. Then we have those agent provacateurs, chiming in to muddy the waters and hear themselves speak and practice their spelling vocabulary.

It is also obvious that the reason you can’t walk into a 7-11 and buy a dime superfecta is that the lawmakers who instituted the lottery and casino gambling are not interested in the Sport of Kings, and have successfully stymied the proliferation of wagering on same.

People here in California flock to the desert to gamble in the Indian Casinos. The reason why? Penny slots and nickel slots. Fractional wagering is appealing to the novice gambler and the general public. Hopefully that draw eventually turns them into real horseplayers (people who read PP’s and follow the SPORT).

John,
Part of the challenges of the industry - clearing up the confusion.

ML,
In the “old” days, you used to take $20 to the track, bet 9 races @ $2, if you lost, you had 4 hours of entertainment. Today, it’s about “frequency of play”. Your same $20 is gone 20 minutes (or less) with all the simulcasting and bet types offered - who wants that? Reducing the cost of the wager allows you to “stay in the game” longer and enjoy racing all day. You still may lose your $20, but it lasted longer.
Not sure what the magic number is, but money management over time is easier if it costs less to play. With lower prices and more plays covered, it also increases the “frequency of win” which is key to keeping people interested.

I don’t do simulcasting (except maybe for an NYRA bet or two when I’m at Monmouth or Keeneland). Betting on simulcast races seems to me to be more like casino gambling. I still just analyze and sometimes bet on the races at the track where I am. My friends do the same. For myself (and my friends) racing is just a game we enjoy. If I were forced to bet more, I would, but since I’m not, I don’t.

When we were making two dollar bets forty years ago, there were one dollar blackjack tables on the Vegas Strip. The casinos adjusted. The racetracks for the most part have not.

TTT,
There is a huge difference between “fractional” and “minimum”. Minimums work in today’s environment, fractionals are much more of a challenge technically and with regulations. What do you do with the .00666 cents in John’s example? In the US there is a minimum payout (different in some states), so the minimum fraction would have to pay more than the legal minimum for the bet - think 20 cent bet with a $2.10 payout (for $2) needs to pay at least 1 cent, so the minimum fraction would have to be 20 cents. Also, pennies galore, so sellers would need to fund their cash boxes with them as well.

So, yes, everyone needs to know and understand what you are asking for....

No, tellers do not need to fund their cash boxes with pennies; that is laughable. They have been stealing the “breakage” from us for years (whole pennies), and there would be no problem with them stealing a fraction of a penny after the bet was tabulated; be serious. Thanks for attempting to educate me, I appreciate it. You use the term “legal minimum,” and that is the entire problem. What is legal, and what is right for the industry, are 2 different things. Obviously, if you read what I wrote, I do not advocate ten cent bets on win, place, and show, only super exotic wagers, where this would NEVER be a problem. If you will notice, I used the term electronically and self-service; do you think that was not well thought out? I’m talking paper vouchers and electronic monies. Even if they did not steal the fractional amount of a penny from you, it could still be tabulated, and if and when you wanted to cash out, you would lose any portion not reaching the level of a dime. Simple. Doesn’t take brain surgery to figure it out. While we are speaking of it, the minimum payout should revert back to 10%, and in the case where you bet a dime, the minimum payout would be 11 cents. You could either add those voucher monies to other voucher monies until you reached a whole dime (same electronically), or if you cashed, you would graciously donate those monies to a horse charity where the breakage would go. But even if it remains at 5-cent minimum for every dollar, the same theory would apply. Perhaps everyone needs to understand this.

#21 Indulto, You have too much experience here to fall victim of the Wendel trap...LOL

Youtube might be the greatest invention since the starting gate...LOL..I think Preach has gotten to know me too good and sets me up.

Good to see there are people alive out there, who care and show a passion for the sport we all love. Just might not be the right people to make the proper changes the sport needs. We can at least try. May we stay forever young?

Love him or hate him, agree or disagree. Wendel is a part of our family. He may very well be the guy at every local OTB that waits to sign and cash for 10% an IRS ticket for someone(play it again Sam), who knows? We are all just internet trolls hiding behind a computer after all. Maybe we all will meet up at Saratoga someday, maybe we shouldn’t? We all bring different points of view to the discussion. Most of the time it’s entertaining. There’s one thing we all have in common, a love affair with horseracing.

and the beat goes on?

May your hands always be busy
May your feet always be swift
May you have a strong foundation
When the winds of changes shift
May your heart always be joyful
And may your song always be sung
May you stay forever young
Forever young, forever young
May you stay forever young.....

31 TTT
Good thoughts, and clarifications, and pretty much do-able.
Everyone just needs to understand where “all” the money goes - and the systems therefore balance. Although people don’t believe that, it is true.

The topics here at HRI have been integrity (odds changing during a race), drug usage, small fields,
takeout, changing how to qualify for the Derby, NYRA’s stealing pool money, suspension of trainers,
Triple Crown, certain stake horses, Horse of the Year, fractional wagering, et cetera, while the elephant is ignored: how can Thoroughbred racing get the attention of gamblers now at casinos to gamble on the ponies?

Where is the National marketing/advertising campaign promoting gambling. Right here at HRI I see casinos being advertised. Casino advertising is all over the internet and on television constantly.

NYRA in my view NEEDS to go to the same model as most other tracks: Make ALL Pick Three and Trifecta wagers 50-Cents while also adding a 50-Cent Pick Five on the last five races (in addition to the Pick Six and two Pick Fours currently offered). I might even look at the Woodbine model for Pick Threes and Pick Fours and go to a 20-Cent minimum on such wagers.

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