Welcome to the official blog for DannyAndNina.com. We're a couple in our mid-twenties who have decided to entrust you and the rest of the internet population with the task of deciding where we should move and spend the next year of our life. Vote for the town of your choice at http://dannyandnina.com and learn more about us here!

Saturday, December 16, 2006

#62: It's Not the Ending, It's the Beginning...

When we decided to launch http://dannyandnina.com back in mid-September, we did so out of a spirit of adventure and curiosity. One of the biggest questions in our minds concerned how our project would be received by the internet public. Would people care about our kooky endeavor? Would anyone vote? How quickly might things unfold?

Much to our delight (and somewhat to our surprise), our idea was received warmly and with positivity not only in the United States but all across the world. What we thought might possibly be of interest to some folks in our country rapidly sparked international interest and we quickly saw that our project had many passionate observers.

For the response we have received we are truly and greatly appreciative. It is humbling and wondrous to know that our site has taken on a life of its own, that it has sparked dialogue between citizens in towns in far-flung corners of the States, and that so many people have been as excited by this idea as we have been. In short, we feel thankful and blessed to have had this response.

At the risk of jumping the gun, it does appear that the voting will wrap up at some point in the next day or so. We know that all of the three towns competing for the number one spot have something different to offer us and are awaiting a winner with understandable anticipation. That isn't rhetoric, it's the truth, and we both look forward to exploring our new hometown and sharing our life there with you. There is no telling what the future holds in store for us but we are thrilled by the possibilities.

It was our sincere hope that this competition would engender discussion, make people smile, cause folks to reconsider their feelings about their own hometowns, and maybe even provide a vicarious thrill or two. Nearly five million votes later, it has presented us with an array of challenges we couldn't possibly have forseen at the project's start.

Throughout the process we have always tried our absolute best to ensure a fair and legitimate vote, dealing with new and unexpected obstacles as they arose. We know very well that no matter what town winds up the victor, some people will feel upset and cry foul. It is the nature of competition, as anyone who has ever rooted wholeheartedly for a football team can attest to. Since this cannot be avoided, we take solace in knowing that we conducted ourselves with integrity and honesty throughout this project.

We have obviously been treading in uncharted waters and we have done the best we can. Life is a learning experience and if we had to begin this process anew we would undoubtedly do certain things differently. However, we are both amazed at how things have unfolded. It has definitely been an incredible trek for us as individuals and as a couple.

Thank you again for your support. We put our lives in your hands and you have responded admirably. This is just the beginning, of course, and we look forward to giving you a window into our new town and our lives there.

You are really such dishonest guys... I really want use swearwords now... grrr I'm sooo mad at you!What an example of american voting (system)...

You lied to everyone, you cheated... I hope you will somehow be punished... perhaps by finding that Denver isn't that great as you thought... and that the media will only have bad opinions about your project and your cheating...

You wrote:"Throughout the process we have always tried our absolute best to ensure a fair and legitimate vote, dealing with new and unexpected obstacles as they arose. We know very well that no matter what town winds up the victor, some people will feel upset and cry foul."

Of course you played foul. You did anything neccessary to get your favourite to the lead.

Eliminating votes at will for Plano and South Bend, ignoring the fact, that a bot was voting for Denver, blocking IP addresses, at first some single hosts, then complete networks, whole German networks at last, that was, what you really did.

You've lost your reputation to all the people, that took your "experiment" serious. You've cheated them all, you're no longer the good ones.

Wow...it sure seems like there are a lot of mad people out there. And judging by the bad English, they're all foreigners.

Personally, I don't believe that you guys cheated. Maybe that's idealistic of me but I do believe people are as good as their word - and we had your word.

As for the so-called "graph" - deleting bot votes is legit. You people (not Danny & Nina) need to get a life. Next time (I know there won't be one but....): one vote per registered user. I wonder how many different users actually voted.

@last comment: You are soo naive. I don't know how long you've been looking on that whole voting developement, but one can truely see that something was just not right about Denver gaining so much votes in a few hours...

And I'm tired of that saying 'You need to get a life'. So everyone who has just a sense of 'justice' and is commenting on this strange way this 'experiment' of D&N took has no life... have you ever heard of 'freedom of speech'?

you know how many american's don't speak any english? Otherwise how many (english)american's knows a second language like all these "stupid" foreigners. C'mon let's here some phrases in french, german, italian, dutch, spain...

My life is strongly influenced by values. By the believe in words, in promises and in democracy for example.

If someone pretends something it's necessary to uncover those lies.If someone ignores or hurts principles of democracy (like it is done by vote fraud for example) it's necessary to uncover this.

If you dont do this, you end up in a society which believes in Diebold-machines and is administrated by liars like the Bush-Government because vote fraud and lying is acceptable to those people and isn't outlawed. People gets the government they deserve. ;-P

I fear that these words will fall on deaf ears – like so many words said during this turbulent final phase of your voting race. Anyway, I'll have a try...

Now that this great fun'n'fake show is over, I'd like to draw your attention to some crucial factors that had a vital effect on the outcome.

The fact that there was a subliminal tendency to Kraut-bashing throughout the race is one of the minor issues; we Germans had to learn how to live with unsubstantiated animosities like this, and we don't give a damn. What remains is a bitter aftertaste in view of the sloppy manner how the statements of just one German blockkead (Lyzia) have been picked up gratefully to spread the word. And all of the corrective anti-Lyzian comments left by Germans fulminated in the depths of your forum...

What, however, turned out to be decisive for the outcome was your breach of promise. Once you say Our lives are in your hands!you have to stick to the bargain! But if you – figuratively speaking – chop off the hands of umpteen housands of legally-voting German voters by blocking and banning complete ISPs, subnets etc. I call that premeditative betrayal of trust! And come on, guys, please don't hide behind the broad back of your "hosting company"! After all it's you who's in charge and resposible for that, as your hosters depend on your directions or at least your consent for drastic interventions like this!

Therefore your statement "Throughout the process we have always tried our absolute best to ensure a fair and legitimate vote, dealing with new and unexpected obstacles as they arose."sounds like a tasteless joke.

Agreed, there was a lot of bot voting also from Germany. But the following statistics will show who's the master of bots...

At 10:15 pm on Fri. Dec. 15 (your server time), that was 4:15 on Sat. Dec. 16 in Germany, the top three ranking was as follows:South Bend. 897,525Plano: 885,815Denver 836,629While voting for South Bend almost stopped completely for a couple of hours by that time, and a moderate increase showed for Plano, massive bot-voting started for Denver. At approx. 1:45 am on Sat. Dec. 16 (all times = your server time), roughly 10,000 votes were deleted for South Bend, 60,000 for Plano and none for Denver.

And then, unhampered by any corrective action on the part of the officials, Denver made its way to a landslide victory at 7:25 pm on Sat. 16, without even one vote being deducted! That means that Denver got 144,000 "legitimate" consecutive votes within 18 hours (give or take some minutes)!

And now watch this: When the final whistle was blown ("The voting is now officially closed!") on your voting page, i.e. when legitimate voting was absolutely impossible, Denver still received more than 1.000 votes during the next couple of minutes... what a pity bots can't read!

Thank God you stopped the counters completely, or else the Denver bot-o-mania would have become even more obvious... ;-)

Anyway, although you will now have to schlepp the burden of spoofing, your campaign was a great show – and another proof of what the Internet can achieve. We had fun, controversial and fruitful discussions, it was a success for you, and the best vlogs on the Internet (Ehrensenf and Rocketboom) started their first joint activities (including subtitling of their shows). What else can you expect?

And, after all, Denver isn't such a bad place to stay, is it? And when the weather gets to chilly, you can chill out by yourselves... But please, if you decide to move after one year, please don't do something like this again!!!!

I wish you all the very best for your future. Have a merry Christmas, a happy and prosperous New Year, and don't forget to keep the Internet community posted on any interesting move of your move!

It has nothing to with us being bad losers. It has to do with what is realistically possible. Look at the data, and it is somewhat fishy. No votes being deleted for Denver at all does not make sense, if the other contenders to get a lot of votes deleted, which might be crucial. Blocking ISPs etc, does not speak for Danny and Nina, either. This whole thing was a good idea, but I think in the end something went really wrong.

Danny and Nina blocked the most popular german ISPs.By blocking those hosts i guess at least 90% of all German Voters (--> mostly Plano voters) could not access the voting in the last and most important hours/days.I hope you understand why people are complaining ;)Nevertheless - Have Fun in Denver.

I have been following this project every once and a while and it seems like a really fun idea. of the three top towns i think denver is the best choice . also I looked on the german ehrensenf website and there are a lot of links to automatic bots there. however, judging by the statistics of how the voting was going everyone must have been cheating and all these germans crying just speaks porely of them. grow up.

"also I looked on the german ehrensenf website and there are a lot of links to automatic bots there."Maybe it's true what you're stating. I can't judge about it, because i didn't read any contribution on this subject (where to find bots and how to use them) on the ehrensenf pages (There are many pages containing hundreds of comments). But ... I dont found a single link on such a script there.To check your statement, post a few or at least a single example which can be found by searching that term on those pages as a proof your statement isn't an assumption only.

"however, judging by the statistics of how the voting was going everyone must have been cheating ..."Everyone? Sippenhaft(*)?A few people used voting-bots. Danny and Nina blocked whole sub-nets and at the end even the complete decix (probably by mod_rewrite). Maybe they removed more votes than those ones which have been voted illegally and didn't remove other votes which have been voted illegally too. Do you always call a few people .. ehm ... everyone?

"and all these germans crying just speaks porely of them." To cheat is always a poor behavior. Origin doesn't matter. Sippenhaft is amoral.

"grow up."Someone who has grown up usually takes responsibility for his doings instead of being dishonest to avoid consequences.

(*) Sippenhaft expresses that not only a suspects life but the lives of his entire family became forfeit when judgment was rendered against him. Children, parents, the aged and infirm, none were spared. There was no appeal, and the sentence, once decreed, was swiftly executed.

great marketing concept! It reminds me of the 1 Million Dollar Webpage. However, you should play with open cards and not state in "help the cause", that you're rather losing money with the site than making. With all the ads on it and far more than a million hits, the site probably already pays for your move to whatever city the audiences decides upon :-)

Frankly, I don't know whether you rigged the voting or not. I also have alife so I won't lose any sleep over this, but the fact is; you have been*percieved* to have been rigging the vote.

Whether or not this is deliberate is of no concern, the question is do youwant this hanging over you, or is there no such thing as bad publicity? Ifnothing else it doesn't say much about your internet abilities if youcan't block voting bots properly does it?

My suggestion would be to have a run-off between the top 3 towns at closeof voting. With votes only allowed from registered users with confirmede-mail addresses and a public list of votes cast.

I can make a good guess who would win, are you prepared to roll the diceagain?

Well, it isn't about loosing the game. It even isn't primary about being blocked and can't vote.

Sure it is disappointing to realize someone is cheating. And it is necessary to uncover such a mess ... but what does really matter? Why am I complaining?

I for one dont like to be judged and punished for something i didn't have done.

Especially if someone uses this to excuse his own misbehaviour.

Danny and Nina wrote, by announcing to block "some" users, everyone who's complaining about not to be able to vote uses a bot and therefore is a cheater.

I take this as an insult. That's my main reason for complaining.

If Danny and Nina like to live in Denver, let them live there happily together. Tell them it's bad and evil to tell lies, to cheat and to do false accusations. Exactly like you would tell this your own children too if they behave like them. If they excuse for their false accusations then wish them the best only and say goodbye ;-)

Funny Denver wins and germans are blocked. Why Why? Cause they don´t believe that the ellection was no fake? I don´t no but some says in the past dont believe a statistic, wich you not have fake by yourself.

Funny Denver wins and germans are blocked. Why Why? Cause they don´t believe that the ellection was no fake? I don´t no but some says in the past dont believe a statistic, wich you not have fake by yourself.

I live near Blaine and have been there, I can't imagine anyone who lives there voting for it or suggesting to someone else to move there when there is a whole sprawling metropolis 30 minutes away without the rows and rows of soccer moms and hockey dads.

Quote:"Also I looked on the german ehrensenf website and there are a lot of links to automatic bots there."/ Quote

As far as I know there was only one after German users were banned from the site. BTW did you count how many other comments were urging users not to use any bots? And how many times did Katrin, the Ehrensenf host, ask to stay "clean" and not to use bots?

During the last days, I used different proxy servers (no bots mind you) to continue voting for Plano, since I was banned, too. The first proxy was located in Dresden. I casted some 30 to 50 votes within 15 minutes, which certainly doesn't look like a bot was voting rather than a real person. The next day the proxy was banned.

Same with the next proxy in Munich.

Anyway, you, Danny and Nina, basically had a wonderful idea, and you were featured on TV and made it into some newspapers.I guess it’s fair to say that, to some extend, that was also a result from the efforts of your “new German friends” - as you have called us.

why are you that angry? have you ever supposed that this little artificial voting stuff was genuine? the actors got some money and publicity by using the internet for their idea. i mean, the outcome of that simple idea reflects the difference between american and european thinking. an unreal show with the facility for publicity vs. seriousness that has to be fair dinkum. thats it. beside: it also demonstrates the tendency to badness on either sides. d&n got ones money worth by cheating and the germans have demonstrated their attitude to currishness by trying to send someone to fucked up places.

in answer to above post by anonymoushttp://www.ehrensenf.de/2006/10/30/plano-voting/

here you can find tons of links to illegal bots and at the top the program erensenf hosts even highlighting posts where you can find such bots.funny how the germans weren't complaining when it was THEM cheating.

Ryan wrote:"i didn't actually see in any of the above posts non german people calling germans evil. why are making stuff up."

I'm answering: Danny and Nina said, everyone who isn't able to get to their site uses a bot. After they blocked the major german ISPs (and later on the whole decix) no german user could connect to their site.

Well cheating is evil. Using a bot is cheating. Nearly all germans have been blocked. Conclusion: If all germans can't get to the site then they are accused to use a bot. (But in fact they blocked germans who vote without a bot too!) If using a bot is evil (it is indeed!), every german must be assumed to be evil by this accusation.

Ryan wrote:"and yes, why was it okay with the germans to cheat when it was favoring their town? Interesting."

I'm answering: Who wrote using a bot is ok? Noone wrote such a thing. To block those germans (or other peole from elsewhere - even the U.S. - take a look on Denvers uprising) is absolutely ok. But to punish other users for something they didn't have done is definately not ok.

I'm answering:Please give the number of those comments linked with bot software.

ryan wrote:funny how the germans weren't complaining when it was THEM cheating.

I'm answering:Germans aren't complaining about german users using bots? Maybe in your imagination.To cheat is wrong, regardeless of the origin of the cheater.And if someone did something wrong to someone else, this isn't an excuse for someone else to do something wrong to anybody even not to that one who did something wrong first.