Very dependent on the instrument. Slide positions will vary greatly from one horn to another in that region. This where design and execution of design begin to make a huge difference and explains why some instruments have and 'easy' high range and others more strenuous. If you intend to be an extreme upper register player you will have to be very particular about your instrument and MP choices.

One King 2B may end up being very different than another King 2B when you want to play a high E or #f. If this is where you want to live you'll spend a lot of time finding a horn that works just right for you and you'll hold onto it as though it was your last breath. (yeah, slight exaggeration ... but only slight)

Logged

Never look at the conductor. You just encourage them.

Have you noticed, some folk never stick around to help tidy up after practice?

I've found that it helps to think of the notes above and including the high D as a new harmonic series. So play the high D in a b2nd and the F should be right above it and in tune. The F sharp is clear and stable on a sharp 2nd pos, as is the Eb. The troublesome E is around a slightly flat 3rd. The Eb works in third but can be a little "squirrely"..

A range building exercise I use is lip slurring the high C to the Eb to the E, changing the sequence around.

Every trombone is different. Don't worry about what harmonics tend to be... find out what they are on your instrument. Yourear is your friend.... I hope.

Chris Stearn

Also, your eyes can be your enemy! Practice with your eyes closed-it makes you listen more and also stops you looking at where you are placing the slide and thinking "No, third position is a bit further out!"

When I was teaching trombone, I used to say that there were 3 stages to learning positions and slide technique:-

1) Reading the note third space up is E so that is???? 2nd position by which time the note had gone!

2) Reading the note and going automatically to the position.

3) Ignoring the slide position chart you used for the first two stages and playing the note in tune, wherever that happened to be on the slide.

I believe that most modern trombone designers try to make trombones with partials line-up as close to the overtoneseries as possible. If that was posible we could a slidepositions chart that should be the same for all trombones. Atually there is no chart that is true for all trombones allready in the low range, and the higher we go the more trombones differ even in the same models. And a change of mpc can make a difference. And different players get different result with the same horn and mpc.

You can calculate for yourself what the 'ideal' tuning of any harmonic is - it's not complex, and it gives you an answer that is not usually a million miles off what happens in reality.

1) Take your partial number, P.Let's use P=5 as an example, the 5th partial D on one leger line above the bass staff for a Bb tenor instrument.2) Find the highest power of 2 less than P.In our example the highest power of 2 less than 5 is 2: 2^2 = 43) Divide P by this. This tells us how far through the octave the partial is as a pitch ratio.5/4 = 1.254) Take log to the base 2 of this, and multiply it by 1200. This tells us how far through the octave the partial is in 100ths of a semitone ("cents"). Note that the easiest way to calculate log to base 2 of a number is to take the usual log, and then divide the result of that by log(2).1200 * log(1.25) / log(2) = 386.3145) Now convert it back to pitches. 0=Bb, 100=B, 200=C, ..., 1100=A, 1200=Bb again, assuming equal temperament.400 cents = D, so 386 cents = D 14 cents flat

Our example shows us why that 5th partial often needs shortening on the slide - although practical experience also tells us that this amount varies between trombone models.

It's instructive and fun (if you like that sort of thing...) to play around with these. I've enclosed here a table with 'ideal' tunings up to the 16th partial:

Partial number

Tuning in cents

Note

1

0

pedal Bb

2

0

low Bb

3

702

F 1/50 semitone sharp

4

0

middle Bb

5

386

D 1/7 semitone flat

6

702

F 1/50 semitone sharp

7

969

Ab 1/3 semitone flat

8

0

high Bb

9

204

C 1/25 semitone sharp

10

386

D 1/7 semitone flat

11

551

Eb quarter tone sharp / E quarter tone flat

12

702

F 1/50 semitone sharp

13

841

Gb 2/5 semitone sharp

14

969

Ab 1/3 semitone flat

15

1088

A 1/8 semitone flat

16

0

super Bb

One can immediately see that often the unadjusted 1st position isn't likely to be the best option for many notes. But as everyone's been saying, theory tends to differ more from practice in this register than lower down.

I've found that it helps to think of the notes above and including the high D as a new harmonic series. So play the high D in a b2nd and the F should be right above it and in tune. The F sharp is clear and stable on a sharp 2nd pos, as is the Eb. The troublesome E is around a slightly flat 3rd. The Eb works in third but can be a little "squirrely"..

A range building exercise I use is lip slurring the high C to the Eb to the E, changing the sequence around.

Even though all trombone are different, what Pre59 write does come close on many horns.Palmer Traulse, a Danish trombone legend did say allmost the same thing. D 2,5 F 2,4 Db 3,5 E 3,4 Eb 1,5. That is close to theory about overtoneseries, but some trombones are way different. To really find out you have to have a good embouchure.

Play long positions and use your ear. I strive for an in tune in first position. From there all other positions will be far out from the bumpers.Theory is one thing and practical playing the note is another thing. You need a strong embouchure to play the notes up there and an even stronger embouchure to feel the sweet spot. If you can do the note with a nice slide vibrato then you have a strong embouchure. If the short slide movements does not matter then your emboshure may not be strong enough and you might not feel the difference.

All my trombones are different up in the partials. Above the high Bb i play all notes in first when i do lip slurs. Strange enough I get up to F but doesn't have much control up there. But all you tenor players, isn't it possible to make Bb, C, D Eb, F, all in first?

The D partial above the staff is a little high on my 60h but tiny bit flat on my Holton 180. The F partial is high on all my trombones.I noticed im often a little bit high in pitch above the staff. Especially around Eb , E and F. Have to lower them with the slide.

You can calculate for yourself what the 'ideal' tuning of any harmonic is - it's not complex, and it gives you an answer that is not usually a million miles off what happens in reality.

1) Take your partial number, P.Let's use P=5 as an example, the 5th partial D on one leger line above the bass staff for a Bb tenor instrument.2) Find the highest power of 2 less than P.In our example the highest power of 2 less than 5 is 2: 2^2 = 43) Divide P by this. This tells us how far through the octave the partial is as a pitch ratio.5/4 = 1.254) Take log to the base 2 of this, and multiply it by 1200. This tells us how far through the octave the partial is in 100ths of a semitone ("cents"). Note that the easiest way to calculate log to base 2 of a number is to take the usual log, and then divide the result of that by log(2).1200 * log(1.25) / log(2) = 386.3145) Now convert it back to pitches. 0=Bb, 100=B, 200=C, ..., 1100=A, 1200=Bb again, assuming equal temperament.400 cents = D, so 386 cents = D 14 cents flat

Our example shows us why that 5th partial often needs shortening on the slide - although practical experience also tells us that this amount varies between trombone models.

It's instructive and fun (if you like that sort of thing...) to play around with these. I've enclosed here a table with 'ideal' tunings up to the 16th partial:

Partial number

Tuning in cents

Note

1

0

pedal Bb

2

0

low Bb

3

702

F 1/50 semitone sharp

4

0

middle Bb

5

386

D 1/7 semitone flat

6

702

F 1/50 semitone sharp

7

969

Ab 1/3 semitone flat

8

0

high Bb

9

204

C 1/25 semitone sharp

10

386

D 1/7 semitone flat

11

551

Eb quarter tone sharp / E quarter tone flat

12

702

F 1/50 semitone sharp

13

841

Gb 2/5 semitone sharp

14

969

Ab 1/3 semitone flat

15

1088

A 1/8 semitone flat

16

0

super Bb

One can immediately see that often the unadjusted 1st position isn't likely to be the best option for many notes. But as everyone's been saying, theory tends to differ more from practice in this register than lower down.

So that's why trombones are so difficult to learn to play. You need a Doctorate in Maths, Further Maths and Even Harder Sums(and a big calculator!)

Above the high Bb i play all notes in first when i do lip slurs. Strange enough I get up to F but doesn't have much control up there. But all you tenor players, isn't it possible to make Bb, C, D Eb, F, all in first?

To me Bb, C, D, Eb slots in first-ish position. D is at the bumpers and Eb is a flat 1st. Both Bb and C are a bit away from the bumpers, but this is me and I play long positions. To me high F is better on a very flat 2:nd but can be played in first position.

Part of the problem is that manufacturers generally try to get all the partials to work from pedals to high Bb, which is considered a "normal" range for a tenor trombone. The farther you get above high Bb, the more the compensations built into the horn start to break down. The compensations are different for different makers (and sometimes are build dependent) so while we can generally use the same positions from high Bb to F above, the stratosphere is anybody's guess.

My suggestion? Put in a French Horn mouthpiece and stick your hand in the bell

Bruce, you're not too far off the mark with the french horn approach, the most secure high D on my instrument is with the trigger depressed! Maybe I should try reaching down the bell and see if I can pull a better note out...