As seems to happen more frequently, Orac has had his attention wholly taken up by contemplating a black hole. (Actually, he’s at a medical conference on quality care in breast cancer.) Consequently, after a four and a half hour drive to the hotel, dinner out with the conference staff, and preparing for his talk, he didn’t have time to deliver the Insolence you all know and crave. So he’s asking you—yes, you!—to create your own Insolence. That’s right. It’s open thread day, although I do want there to be a bit of guidance. Are there any particular topics or targets deserving of Orac’s loving attention in the near future that he hasn’t already covered?

Comments

Well, the biggest news of the week for me was the meta analysis of the effect of vaccination on autism (none, of course). I’d be interested in hearing from people who are used to interpreting such analyses to see how good it was. It’s likely to be targeted by anti-vaxxers so it would be good to marshal our arguments first.

Haven’t read it yet, but I’m always wary of meta analyses, even if they agree with my viewpoint. It’s very easy to get spurious results. Need to look carefully at the studies included and method of selecting studies to ensure it’s not just a GIGO report.

(The First Nations aspect of the story can seem a bit overplayed, but I guess we should remember that it was offical governement policy to kidnap every First Nations children up until not so long ago…)

something’s been brewing @ TMR: it seems that TM Tex ( Thalia Michelle Seggelink) has started her own advocacy group in order the legalise medical marihuana for autism in Texas- the group is called MAMMA- there’s a post ‘splaining it all @ TMR today.

PRN is fast becoming the anti-psychiatry centre of the universe.
Expect new reports, papers and interviews to be circulating around the net and wiinding up in comments here.

Question: although Jake Crosby and John Stone exist in different spheres of influence these days, they often sound like the same person: is that possible?
-btw- the AutismOne Woo-tacular will only feature on of them. See what I mean? They’re never in the same place at the same time.

Well, one story I liked was that two women were injected with modified measles to cure cancer. In one, it worked, in the other, it didn’t.
Both were immunocompromised, and the dose injected was equivalent to 10,000 or 10,000,000 times the dose in a vaccine (depending on the source cited).

Recent articles on the the Mayo Clinic’s use of specially engineered measles virus to cure cancer sounds exciting. However, according to one account being immunized to measles reduced the effectiveness (only 1 out of 6 patients has been apparently cured). Lower levels of measles antibodies may be required for this to work.

Does this suggest that vaccinating for measles will lead to increased cancer death in future? Or, assuming this treatment works well, will someone need to engineer a measles virus that is not affected by antibodies created by current vaccines?

@EBA,
Indeed it looks like a sad story and they way First Nations children were treated in the past adds some problems.

I’m not going to read all comments, because I’m affraid there will be more reactions that support dubious treatments, than reactions that make sense. One reaction really did it, claiming that 97% of the cancer patients recieving chemo, died within 5 years, because of the chemo.
Well, of course it is always the chemo, but never the cancer.

@MoB – upon digesting the article regarding using Measles to kill Cancer cells, it does appear that having a compromised immune system helps the treatment do its work, before the body reacts against the intrusion….while not hugely successful in this one trial, it does point to further refinements (and possible genetic alterations to the virus) that would result in a much more targeted, and hopefully effective treatment.

This is more of a comment and a question, but nothing makes me more insolent than healthcare workers who refuse vaccines. I have a primary immune deficiency disorder and get critically sick from minor respiratory infections. As of now I’ve been sacked by a resistant strain of Cryptococcus Neoformans, high doses of anti-fungals to get rid of it, and weekly IgG replacement therapy. I have no fight in me right now, but when I get better, I plan to try to counter some of the stupid in blogs such as this one:

I’ve been closely following (via his Facebook page) Chris Wark, of Chrisbeatcancer.com fame (or, maybe infamy). Orac wrote about him some months ago.

This person actively encourages cancer patients to forgo SBM in favor of “natural therapies” to “heal” themselves. While Wark claims he is not a doctor and is merely dispensing “friendly” advice (his words, in the disclaimer on his website) he offers his services as a “cancer coach.” In my option, he’s just coaching patients to an untimely death.

Two recent posts on his FB page left me depressed and outraged. One, the daughter of a man recently diagnosed with rectal cancer asked if Gerson (rectal!) would would be a good alternative treatment. Wark gave her a like. Another, a woman with a recently diagnosed with Stage 3A IDC (the same diagnosis my wife received before her money grubbing surgeon and oncologist teamed up with Evil Pharma to save her life four years ago) posted that was forgoing further SBM treatments (chemo and I assume radiation), in favor of “a new, healthy lifestyle.” Another like from Wark.

I’m wondering if there’s some way to stomp on guys like Wark, who hide behind simple disclaimers, with hobnail boots…What they do is just medieval.

In Ohio, we are experiencing good-sized outbreaks of measles and mumps, as well as a case of diptheria (!). Legislators are now getting around to making vaccination a requirement for pre-K as OH is the only state to not have this on the books yet.

Some of the comments on that article are really frightening. One nurse says that the policy does not specify “where” she needs to wear the mask if she forgoes the vaccine, so she’s going to wear it on her arm. Seriously? Is she 2 years old?

Now that a fabulous GMO toy/mascot, Frank N. Foode is in the works, it’s time for us pro-vaccine minions to come up with designs for our very own vax toys to woo the impressionable kiddies.

We could sell a line of plush vax critters – a lovable stuffed hypodermic needle, various Toxins (collect them all!) and of course Orac with his blinking lights. Children will love games where their vax toys vanquish the evil DachelBot and her flying monkeys.

Donations should suffice as seed money to develop this line of toys, but of course we could speed things up drastically by soliciting funds from Merck and the rest of Big Pharma (with the understanding that the money won’t come out of our shill bonuses).

Some of the comments on that article are really frightening. One nurse says that the policy does not specify “where” she needs to wear the mask if she forgoes the vaccine, so she’s going to wear it on her arm. Seriously? Is she 2 years old?

Does she work in a hospital? I hope as far removed from living people as possible. Perhaps the morgue is a nice place.
I suppose this lady would consider the suggestion to put it on a place where the sun doesn’t shine literally.
Please, let this lady be fired.

Renate/Todd: I have developed an extraordinary respect for RNs since taking up my current line of work. Our department mandates either the flu vaccine or a refusal statement, and I’m pleased to note that not a single one of the nurses on staff have refused to vaccinate.

It’s possible that a little self-selection is at play here, as Public Health nurses are possibly more attuned to the implications of not vaccinating than the average bear.

NCCAM is seeking public comments for a proposed name change to NATIONAL CENTER FOR RESEARCH ON COMPLEMENTARY AND INTEGRATIVE HEALTH.” Please go to this website and suggest a more accurate name like “National Research of Quakery” in the comment section.http://nccam.nih.gov/about/offices/od/comments

Occasional followers of climate science stuff might be amused to read about l’aiffaire Bengtsson, which is creating quite the dustup. I’d start by looking up Rabbett Run’s blog on using your favorite search engine.

@wijo
we were talking yesterday about getting the groups at society for science in medicine more active.( http://www.sfsbm)
I know they need$, but you can sign up without needing to pay. once you are signed up, go to the social button and you’ll get a drop down menu. Click social again and then you’ll get a set of choices. pick groups and you can see what ones already exist, or you can create one.
I’m willing to do something on this issue. My hospital makes the unvaccinated wear masks and I had a bit of a conversation with one worker who was wearing one. Turned out she has an egg allergy, so I decided she wasn’t a dumb ass and I let her access my vein for an MRI. Otherwise, un-huh.

Mayim Bialik is now promoting a quack named Brian Leaf, who ended a friendship with someone who recognized the necessity of vaccines.

According to his bio, Brian Leaf “is certified by The New England Institute of Ayurvedic Medicine and holds licenses or certifications as a Yoga Teacher, Massage Therapist, Energyworker, and Holistic Educator. He also incorporates Bach Flower Essences [homeopathy], Cranio-Sacral Therapy, Reiki, Shiatsu, and Tai Chi into his work.”

This is only days after she completed a detox juice cleanse, which made her feel “stronger than ever” and “really clear”.

In the juice cleanse essay, you have this unsourced gem:

“As a vegan, I don’t have many toxins in my body. I don’t purport that I’m better than you or anything elitist and obnoxious like that, but I simply don’t eat foods that contain the hormones of other animals, the byproducts of other animals’ bodies and flesh, or the antibiotics and medications in the bodies of most of the animals that we eat in this country. “

section 2706 is the section in the Affordable Care Act that permits alternative providers to be included in insurance and Medicare coverage, under the heading provider non-discrimination. This section is somewhat open to interpretation, and CAM providers really want it to make sure insurance companies and Medicare is required to include them in plans.

Various depts.* wrote the frequently asked questions (FAQs)advising stakeholders about implementation.(see links below) but apparently the Senate Committee on Appropriations wasn’t happy. They’re requiring that the FAQ’s be revised.

There is a comment period on this section of the law that ends June 10, 2014 (link here:http://webapps.dol.gov/FederalRegister/HtmlDisplay.aspx?DocId=27416&AgencyId=8&DocumentType=3). I found out about this on a CAM organization website so I know ‘they’ are sending in comments. I think its really important for science based medicine people to write in and tell them how important it is to NOT interpret the section of the law liberally.
I’ll post more details on the sfsbm legislative group.

I left the following comment for the NCCAM name change. I recommend that others also share their thoughts:

I would like to propose “National Center for Research on Supplements, Complementary and Alternative Medicines (SCAMs)” or “National Center for Research on Tooth Fairy Medicine”. I feel that these names accurately describe what the center currently does. Perhaps if the center starts putting money into research on treatments that actually have some plausibility, then a more legitimate name could be considered. But until that time, the center’s name should be an accurate reflection of the nonsense it funds with taxpayer money.

Remember, there is no such thing as “Complementary Medicine” or “Alternative Medicine”. Anything that has been shown to work is called “medicine”. Anything that has not yet been shown to work or has been shown not to work is not “medicine”. Likewise, there is no such thing as “Complementary Health” or “Integrative Health”. There is simply “Health”.

The emergence of disease epidemics will tend to lead with the most overt and clinically severe cases. These prototypic cases, at the leading edge of the plague, herald many more affected individuals whose disease may be less severe and/or pervasive but, as will be proposed for the autism epidemic, are representative of significant neurological injury that affects a wide range of cognitive functions in a substantial proportion of the population. This talk considers the impact of a neurotoxic injury sustained across a population at a variable intensity and against a heterogeneous pattern of susceptibility. This impact is considered from medical, societal, educational, economic, and military perspectives

Which I read as: “Yep, vaccines cause autism and lots of other chronic diseases and are making boys lose IQ points so that girls can become valedictorians”

Emil and Yvette:
because I frequent various sinkholes of illogic, I find that this attitude prevails. Natural News deplores any meds for mental conditions and has a resident NLP creature, Mike Bundrant, on board ( there is a guess that Mike A may have had ties to Scientology- Orac wrote about it). Mercola likes EFT. Anti-vaxxers often frown upon meds as well.

‘Fearless Parent’ is an offshoot of TMR and airs on PRN. Peter Breggin also narrowcasts there. PRN’s chief lunatic has been on an anti-psychiatry/ psychology binge for many years- recently he put up an article- “Manufacturing Madness” ( which may be hard to find amongst the embarassment of ‘riches’ at his sites – if you consider altie nonsense to be of value- see PRN.com/ GaryNull.com).

Null’s belief is that what most people call mental illnesses is merely “a part of living”: everyone gets depressed or has episodes of nervousness- that’s not an illness which requires meds. ( If a baby laughs and then cries- it’s not bipolar: doctors would medicate it) There are no tests that can show who has a mental illness ( by tests, he means imaging or blood tests only).

In the good old days in WV, the town elders took care of mental problems by “talking” to those who were troubled. I suppose that that and prayer helped. Odd, but he doesn’t mention institutions unless if he talks about ECT. Everyone was just fine, thank you.

I often wonder if the hatred of psychologists/ psychiatrists and meds by woo-meisters comes from a worry that they themselves may need help. Often, patients with serious mental conditions assure us that they are fine and don’t need meds ( anosognosia.) If you follow these people, as I do, you sometimes wonder if their attitiude is one of empathy or of self- identification.

@ Stu:

According to Manta.com, he sells 12 million USD per year.
I venture that he hasn’t the self-awareness to evaluate his own issues.

In 2006, Dr. Mikovits became attracted to the plight of patients with chronic fatigue syndrome and autism. In only five years, she developed the first neuroimmune institute from a concept to a reality and is primarily responsible for demonstrating the relationship between immune-based inflammation and these diseases. In 2009, the identification of a retroviral association with ME/CFS and autism by her laboratory would forever change her world as the diseases had theirs. In the fall of 2011, a mistake made by the original discoverers of XMRV was used to scapegoat Dr. Mikovits and the patient communities, sending a clear message of the fate of anyone who dared to investigate environmental causes of autism.

Looks like she’s not admitting to having made any mistakes and isn’t even accepting that the results are wrong. She’s being scapegoated.

As the parent of an autistic child, I find it insulting that she’s claiming that the “patient community” is being scapegoated.

“The Adverse Reactions to Vaccines Practice Parameter 2012 update,1 consistent with new recommendations from the Centers for Disease Control’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP),2 recommended that egg-allergic persons receive injectable inactivated influenza vaccine (IIV) as a single dose without prior vaccine skin testing and be observed for 30 minutes afterwards for any possible allergic reaction. Furthermore, the update recommended that, if the reaction to the ingestion of eggs was hives only, the vaccine could be administered in a primary care setting, whereas if the reaction to the ingestion of eggs was more severe, the vaccine should be administered in an allergist’s office.

While flu vaccine is produced in egg based culture, there is simply too little egg protein residue left in the final product to cause trouble, even in individuals who are extremely allergic to egg. A prior allergic reaction to flu vaccine itself remains a contraindication, although as any allergist knows, a patient”s self reported allergy is not a very reliable predictor of true allergy.

The interesting thing is that she blames her stance on autism. Did she ever publish on autism or did she just make public statements? And, in order to crush her work on autism (why? just because it’s environmental?) they went out and showed that her work on CFS/ME was wrong?

Thanks! She isn’t someone I regularly see, but I’m in the radiology department almost every other month and will take the info. to the department head. She was very proud of her science education and hates the anti-vax crowd, so I assume no one had updated her.
My hospital does a terrible job of educating their staff. In the last year I’ve run into staff in 3 depts. who had completely wrong information on hormones, vaccines, and therapeutic touch.

Serious topic to look at at some point: there’s been a lot of talk over the years about diseases caused by free radicals (Abbie Hoffman?) and treating these with antioxidants. A number of recent studies seem to show that antioxidants are less effective at improving health than some might think. What’s the real evidence for antioxidant benefits, and is the entire free radical theory supported by good science?

I came across something lately- I forget where, it’ll show up-that overloading yourself with anti-oxidants may have deleterious effects – i.e. with the body’s normal reactions to intrusion by outside intruders and manufacturing of anti- tumour sunstances? anti-microbials?

I’m not sure how the proposed name is any less misleading than the existing name. I think it’s arguably more misleading because the idea of “integrating” real medicine with fake medicine makes no sense but might fool people into thinking it does.

As Dr. Mark Crislip often says, “If you integrate fantasy with reality, you do not instantiate reality. If you mix cow pie with apple pie, it does not make the cow pie taste better; it makes the apple pie worse.”

I think a more honest name would be the National Center for Research on Snake Oil and Science Denial.

I was valedictorian and I got the measles vaccine as a child. I must, however, exclude myself as a contrary anecdote as I went to a boy’s school and thus did not have to worry about girls. I did get 2 more measles vaccines (as the MMR–my original was just a measles vaccine) in college and grad school. So….maybe if I hadn’t received them I could have had enough extra IQ points left to be a mudphud surgeon with a research lab, multiple blogs and an abundance of insolence

Sadly (?) I am not near enough to beautiful downtown Chicago to attend AutismOne. However, the free gift of “a wonderfully compelling video on how to help heal your child” may be worth the $99 admission charge. And you can order virgin rill oil, in case your virgin krill are squeaking.

Was on holiday in Devon. In Sidmouth, saw a sign for Ebdons Court Natural Healing, who are offering “quantumwave laser therapy,” http://www.sidmouthnhc.co.uk/qwlhopi.php. Really, they offer a smorgasbord of complete nonsense. Devon seems to be full of alties and UKIPpers.

One anti-vaccine trope that I have seen from time to time is the claim that too much about vaccines is unknown…especially when it comes to “long term” effects of vaccines. Many AVers believe that vaccine injuries are under reported because things (allegedly) caused by vaccines later on (autoimmune disorders, MS, fibromyalgia, cancer or other ailment that is still poorly understood) are not considered a reaction to the vaccines (likely because they aren’t…but that’s neither here nor there)… I have not really seen anything yet addressing concerns related to “long term” effects of vaccines and how these things may or may not be monitored and assessed for their possible relationships…(sorry if this seems all over the map, I’m having trouble finding the right words/phrases to describe the argument)

believe me, they think that’s happening. They threw Ken Reibel out twice from AutismOne. The last time enlisting the aid of uniformed but off-duty cops to do this (apparently earning extra money moonlighting). Nice harassment technique there. Ken tried repeatedly to get a straight story out of them as to why he was ejected. AutismOne wouldn’t say.

The first time he was recording, openly, as were many others. People used to post their videos of AutismOne online. Then Ken showed a bit more than they wanted and cameras were banned. As were reporters. I think the Trib tried to send people and they were denied. This is after Trine Tsuderous attended and reported…again AutismOne was not pleased to have an accurate account made public.

Chicago is, I believe, a two party state. Recording people without their knowledge would be illegal. I doubt anyone is thinking of doing this but in case they are–don’t.

Fortunately, many of Orac’s minions were/ are fantastic students and are trained to accurately recall whatever they hear OR excel at the art of synopsis. So no recording devices are necessary except the one/s inside your noggin.

At that same AutismOne where Ken was ejected by uniformed police, Jamie Bernstein was also ejected.

@MO’B re: Antioxidants

There are some diseases that are associated with free oxygen radicals, but excessive antioxidants (e.g., certain vitamins, like vitamin E) can lead to an increased risk of cancer. SBM has some posts about anti-oxidants, like this one.

I don’t believe your nurse with the egg allergy story. I have been getting immunotherapy (allergy shots) at a major medical center for years and they regularly immunize kids there who have egg allergy with an alternate procedure. They also require staff to be immunized–no mask option.

Polly Noble died this week in the UK. Other than rare mentions of the mainstream therapies she undertook, buried deep under pages of woo on her blog, she gave no indications recently in that or in all her social media of the dire progression of her disease. Even those closest to her were kept in the dark –
“Her mother Georgie Noble, 63, said today: ‘She was a beautiful, vivacious person who worked hard to put her message across. I don’t think she realised just how many people’s lives she touched.’
Speaking of her last days, Mr Noble added: ‘It got to the stage a couple of weeks ago where they said the chemo isn’t working.
‘To inspire others to live a happier and healthier life and to do everything in their power to achieve this in every moment so they can live a life they love’
– Polly Noble’s ‘mission statement’ written after she was diagnosed with cancer
‘A scan showed she had six tumours in her liver, one being 7cm wide and she didn’t have those in December. It was such a shock, we didn’t realise she had it that badly.’

At the end of the article about Ms. Noble there is a box about cervical cancer. While it mentions that younger women should get PAP smears, it does not mention one way to prevent the cancer is to get one of two HPV vaccines.

I would wish some Insolence on Sayer Ji. Recently this maladaption of genomics:

Some of the extremely hard to digest proteins in wheat colloquially known as “gluten” (there are actually over 27,000 identified in the wheat proteome) were found metabolizable through a 94 strains of bacterial species isolated from the human gut (via fecal sampling).

Hah, Drinking Moms recommending medical marijuana for autistics! I predicted that one months ago, based on the Drinking Moms’ propensity to imbibe fermented beverages at their meetings. I made a joke about pot along the lines that once they trade their wine for pot, they’d invent a new category of ‘geniuses’ for Munchausen by Proxy and call them Munchies.

Seriously though, are there even any anecdotal reports of autistic adults finding any kind of relief by smoking pot? One would think this could be tested pretty easily. If it works, wonderful! If not, then the Drinking Moms can go back to recommending litres of red wine.

Wijo @ 12:

Sorry to hear you’re sick, here’s to hoping the antifungals work. One thing we really need to go after, with absolutely vicious ferocity, is the massive abuse of antibiotics particularly in agriculture, that is producing resistant strains.

I checked out your link. First commenter says that the recalcitrant nurse in question is studying to be a naturopath and chiropractor. Thus revealing the underlying agenda. Bloody hell!, these people are diagnosably insane! Worst of all, under the emerging interpretation of ‘religious freedom’ in the USA, religious antivaxxism may rise spectacularly. And if an employer has a religious objection to vaccines, they may be able to take vaccines off their health insurance policies. First comes birth control, keyword search ‘Hobby Lobby’ case, and mark my words, if they win, next comes vaccine denial.

Dangerous Bacon @ 19:

I would suggest a customised line of ‘Playmobil’ figures. There are already ‘garden war-gaming’ hobbyists who customise these figures and sell them online, without any trouble from the toy company. You could do a whole series, with figures representing measles, chickenpox, pertussis, etc., and additional figures to represent doctors who practice SBM, and some to represent various famous quacks. There are ‘hospital,’ ‘school,’ and ‘police station’ play sets, that provide an opportunity for kids to act out various play themes, such as quacks making everyone sick and getting thrown in jail.

M @ 32:

I recall reading somewhere (possibly here) years ago, that Ayurvedic ‘Medicine’ also includes drinking _urine_. To say that grossed me out would be an understatement (involuntary retching). Methinks hearing about that might have the same effect on others, and thus a possible route toward helping people stay away from that crap.

Todd W @ 40:

Your quacktion figures and VPD cards are world-class brilliant, and if I was wealthy I’d write you a check to have those figures mass-produced. I’ll likely pop in via another of my anon pseudos and order a set of VPD cards, and I’ll spread the meme amongst my friends.

Matt @ 44:

Someone needs to take Wakefield out to dinner, and buy him enough drinks that he’s verbally loosened-up as far as possible, and then interview him with permission to record.

Ha!
One of my gentlemen regularly takes me to the country where many hippies/ hipsters ( both aging and young) frequent the shops, restaurants, galleries and music venues. I would venture that currently the bohemian-bourgeoise enjoys the fruit of the vine and the buds and the leaf ( not stems and seeds though).

I think that the TMs would fit right in.

Remember though, they’re always telling us how hard they work for their children- right, writing posts, harassing SB people in comments sections, calling government reps, being on facebook with the like minded, writing their memoires etc.

AND AutismOne is nearly upon us. Cocktail parties and karaoke indeed.

-btw- on MJ for autistics: a while back, Orac & Co were plagued by the infamous c-nnab-s troll of London ( why yes, there IS one!) ; some A-V parents have expressed interest and I would guess that a few have tested the waters or the water pipe.

In predictable news, D’Olmsted is already badly failing to understand the Mayo story:

“Does this suggest that wild-type measles infection, the kind hundreds of thousands of kids caught every year before the measles vaccine arrived in the 1960s, performs some unsuspected function in preventing the occurrence of cancer? And the follow-up: Did mass vaccination wipe out this protection?”

@Dangerous Bacon 19,
Thanks for posting that link.
In poking around there (I can’t find the link right now), I noticed that our friend Joseph Mercola had contributed $1 million to the campaign to further restrict Australia’s already pretty tight requirements to label GMO foods.

And, Lurker-82 / M 32, I think drinking urine was practiced by the Romans to improve health. Perhaps, we should bring it back as Traditional Roman Medicine.

how about looking at whether or not puberty really is occuring significantly earlier? My question here was triggered by a comment over at Science Based Medicine (More Dialogs post of 16 May) that asked about it in relation to soy and phytoestrogens, but I’ve also heard other dietary/chemical influences as purported mechanisms–calorie intake, fat/protein content, PBAs etc.

I once read an analysis of young women in 19th century literature that made a case for a later menarche (Little Women, Jane Austen books) but since these were primarily of upper middle class white girls, not sure how applicable. Also it appeared that it was not considered appropriate for upper class females to have much protein in their diet (I forgot the reason(s) but think it was along the lines of making them too sturdy and not delicate enough for the prevailing standards of beauty in their class)

and a local CVS had a copy of Phyllis Balch’s “Prescription for Nutritional Healing” as a reference copy out on a table near all the supplements!!! That’s been a reference for “health food” stores for a long time now, but in CVS??

Denise @ 84: Thanks, though let’s not bring any Drinking Mums around, better to not spread that infection;-)

Narad @ 85: Now we’ve got them! If they admit that large doses of measles vax can treat cancer and don’t cause autism, they can’t at the same time push the line that tiny doses of measles vax cause autism and block a cancer cure. One or the other, but not both. We should be rubbing their noses in that contradiction until it comes out their ears.

Squirrelelite @ 86: YES, let’s bring back Traditional Roman Medicine (TRM) to compete with Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM). Someone ought to start a blog promoting Roman Woo, including divination by inhalation of magical vapours (or was that Greek? With all the infatuation with Greek yoghourt, one would think that Greek Woo could catch on pretty well too, eh?). Your RCM or GCM practitioner would inhale a psychoactive gas and pronounce the diagnosis. Right!, and let’s all pray to Bacchus to bestow his healing magic upon us one way (wine) or the other (weed, after all Bacchus would heartily approve).

The answer should be:
But absolutely. All of these childhood diseases were indeed preventing a number of children from dying at an old age of cancer, by killing them earlier.

@ squirrelelite 86

I think drinking urine was practiced by the Romans to improve health.

If I am to believe Steven Saylor, author of the Roma sub rosa series, urine was used as a mouthwash more than anything else. And not necessarily by Romans, or by all Romans (the character who does it is from Spain).
Also as reagent in laundry shops – thanks for ammonia.
Steven Saylor seems to imply Romans were perfectly aware of the smell and the gross effect.
Actually, I think he got his inspiration for his story from a poem from Catullus.

Ew, just read the rest of the Wikipedia article on urine therapy. Interesting, but gross.

I could never understand urine therapy. The modern diet is not short of nutrients, so there’s not really any benefit to drinking your own urine. In addition, if you have ulcers, it’s dangerous. The bacteria that cause ulcers use urea in a vital function. In fact, one test for the bacteria is to consume a drink containing a small amount of urea, wait, then breathe into a sensor. The bacteria, in using the urea, creates a byproduct that can be detected.
Finally, and to quote my brother in law “your body wanted this out of it. Why would you take it in again?”

We already have a visitor on the An antivaccine “Thinker” calls for a boycott who is borderline on this measles topic.
At first he was berating us about vaccines being inefficients (” immunisation doesn’t immunise anything.”), but now he wants to berate us for stopping a cancer-killing virus (“So let’s get this right, you have a vaccine to stop measles but measles virus clear cancer! “), which is implying that after all the vaccine does stop the measles virus…
Or something. Like many trolls, he is not very consistent in his worldview.

In another topic, I approve of your idea of starting TRM, but I will pass on the urine mouthwash, thanks.
Incidentally, the divination by intoxicating oneself with toxic vapours was indeed a staple of Greek oracles, notably the Pythia from Delphes. Note that the lady needed translators to make sense of her babbling. That’s a nice pyramidal business model. Many modern-day quacks entrepreneurs would love it.
But don’t worry about it. Ancient Roman physicians were heavily into Integrative Medicine, borrowing from TGM (Traditional Greek Medicine), TEM (Egyptian), TSM (Sumerian) and a few others. A result of an aggressive politic of importing skilled slaves labor.

The more I think about it, that poster in another thread who critized “Orca'” for not using his real name was spot on.

Too bad Orca isn’t more like the surgical oncologist whose name popped up as I was reading a newspaper story today about Colorado’s “Right To Try” (experimental cancer therapy) measure, which was just signed into law.

“There are still many critics of the bill, among them surgical oncologist Dr. David Gorski, who said the accessibility to experimental drugs won’t actually help many patients.
“These proposals are built on this fantasy that there are all these patients out there that are going to be saved if they could just get access to the medicine,” he said. “In reality, the patients that might be helped are very few, while the number of patients who could be hurt by something like this are many.”

Now we’ve got them! If they admit that large doses of measles vax can treat cancer and don’t cause autism, they can’t at the same time push the line that tiny doses of measles vax cause autism and block a cancer cure.

Oh, no, the AoA brain trust has this all figured out: Since vaccines aren’t as good as “natural” disease, vaccinating deprives people of the opportunity to “build” their natural cancer defenses.

Given that we know vaccines contribute if not cause disease such as diabetes, obesity, cancers. immunological diseases, neurological diseases-autism, aren’t these researchers trading one disease for another?

ZOMG, putting my imminently fatal multiple myeloma into remission is going to make me fat? How irresponsible are you monsters?

Even dumber than the standard, easily refuted lines, given that a cat will only shed oocytes once in its life. Protip: Don’t ingest cat feces.

Easily refuted by (e.g.) the equal likelihood of a positive toxoplasmosis-antibody test among cat-staff owners and non-owners. But Gareth Morgan is a rich man, who sometimes involves himself in worthwhile causes, so his anti-cat tirades receive media attention.

Cathy Jameson once worked amongst the entitled- i.e. rich people’s children at a private beach- who often had to be told that ” you get what you get” when they didn’t get EXACTLY what they wanted and started whining.

However la Mamacita now believes that this remark is quite appropriate whenever the media blames outbreaks of VPDs on “legions of anti-vaxxers” like her.

Reporters spread “mistruths” that outbreaksof VPDs are caused by non-vaccinators when EVERYONE knows that these “diseases being spread have originated among those who’ve been vaccinated”**.

She and her friends are being blamed for “something they play no part in”. The media ” deceives its audience”: those reporters really need to ” investigate the false promise of vaccines”. You get what you get.

Recently, I appear to be constantly reading material from many who are blest with the gift of self- unawareness. Life without an internal critic must be so relaxing.

Reporters spread “mistruths” that outbreaksof VPDs are caused by non-vaccinators when EVERYONE knows that these “diseases being spread have originated among those who’ve been vaccinated”**.

Poor poor Jameson and her fellow anti-vaxxers. All of that work to denigrate public health, compromise vaccine uptake by spreading FUD coming back to bite them in the collective arse. I guess these hoped-for increases in VPDs their fearless leader (Jenny McC) pronounced coming back in order for pHARMa to make a product that wasn’t shite isn’t having the intended effect.

This remission at this time is “Temporary” at best. This is a 50-50 proposition. Time is needed to find the long term results yet the medical community is publishing this as a kind of cure? Watch as the uninformed, untrained medical journalists blindly follow this in the media and in newspapers. Watch as the NYTimes, Forbes, and others create headline news. I am sure that we will see other illnesses develop from this experimentation. Potential shedding of this dangerous vaccine may harm more folks in the long run. Watch as they attempt to “Recycle” their profit making toxins. In what other industry is a 50% success rate applauded?

I find this squirming to be as entertaining as Lynn Throckmorton did with perceived Freemasons.

A slightly off topic remark, but I have two weeks left to raise money for some badly needed dental work. The fundraiser link is here: http://www.gofundme.com/akdentalfund If you can share the link please do so, since I’ve only raised half the money so far.

That made me laugh so hard, mostly because it reinded me of what medicine was like back in American Civil War days. Aside from eschewing the use of alcohol as antisepsis in favor of a quick wipe on one’s apron (which led to a lot of infected wounds – accounts for many of those 600+ K casualties), the lack of chanting before the surgeon cut (maybe a few prayers), and the fact that breastmilk was (of course never used medicinally at that time, the description of “natural surgery” fits ACW medicine to a T.

Oh, and the anesthetic of choice in the ACW (when chloroform was not available) was opium. All-natural opium.

Barry,
Autism did not exist before vaccines, while measles did. I think that if measles sometimes appeared to cause autism, it would be because the fever potentiated stored heavy metals from previous vaccines.

She just keeps spouting the same unsupported claims over and over again.

I’m starting to think that Waldman may have more screws loose than Parker. Here she takes issue with commenters that departed over 16 months earlier.

Here one learns that her daughter won’t allow Waldman access to her medical records, or something. Six months earlier,* “pneumonia” wasn’t in scare quotes, although Gardasil was spelled correctly:

“# 11278:
Nov 22, 2009, Christina Waldman, New York
Have you/family member experienced a Gardasil or other vaccine reaction? My daughter had it when she was 17, just
going into college. It was her wish. She was being treated for pneumonia at the time. She continued to be treated for
continuous lung infections that did not go away for all of her freshman year. She had expensive testing for asthma and
she did not have asthma. She is still having respiratory problems, that are not helped by antihistamines or
decongestants.”

* NVIC “Investigate Gardasil Vaccine Risks NOW!” petition. They’re still a bit short of 100,000 signatures after nine years. In fairness, they revised that down to 30,000 by February 9, 2013, or started over. They’re still short.

Actually, I like the pedantry-
I was going back and forth myself – as you can plainly see- and didn’t feel like looking it up.
It was a long time ago when I studied that altho’ I had more when I re-studied French later on.

And I forgot the old motto- ‘You’re usually right the first time” which could be based on which memory is stronger, BUT I digress. Oh why not? It’s RI.

Ms. Parker continues to travel further and further down the rabbit hole…..her claims are not only completely unsubstantiated, but blatantly dangerous (advocating that everyone should get “diseases” because it is good for them).

I actually did spot that phrasing it as “many whom … of” rather than “many of whom …” would violate the proscription held important by many, that prepositions should not end sentences. In this case, I felt that the clarity of comparing “many who” to “many whom” was more important than adhering to the proscription, which would have forced the comparison to be “many who” versus “many of whom”.

Though, in the interests of full disclosure, I must say I don’t have much use for that proscription (other than in fun “hey, kids! Let’s put on a pedantry festival in the barn!” discussions like, well, this.) I suspect (though I’m not enough of a linguist to confirm) that it springs from the same wrong-headed impulse as the proscription against split infinitives, which comes from someone “reasoning” that “if it’s something you can’t do in Latin, then it must be something you shouldn’t do in English.”

I actually like playing with language, and generally don’t have much of an issue ending sentences “incorrectly”. Having studied grammar a bit (though by no means to the same degree as linguists), whenever I’m writing, I have a constant battle between the prescriptivist and descriptivist points of view. Sometimes, though, it’s fun to push grammatical buttons, whether as the pedant or to rile the pedant.

Oh, I know we’ve had plenty of chiropractic posts but I can’t help but agree that I’d love to see another takedown of these guys. There’s one in my town that markets really aggressively. Upon visiting their website I was informed that not only could they treat back problems but asthma, allergies, upper respiratory infections, and bed wetting!
So the place is just as douchebaggy as I imagined. No surprise there, I suppose. If you have to aggressively advertise “medical” services, then there’s probably something fishy going on.

Denise Walter @129
When I was in high school, the nuns WOULD throw things at you, and not just metaphorically, if you split infinitives or ended sentences with a preposition. Fortunately, I’m a natural pedant when it comes to grammar, so I escaped unscathed, even if I had to duck once in a while to get out of the line of fire.

I suspect (though I’m not enough of a linguist to confirm) that it springs from the same wrong-headed impulse as the proscription against split infinitives, which comes from someone “reasoning” that “if it’s something you can’t do in Latin, then it must be something you shouldn’t do in English.”

W—pedia suggests that it was not a case of faux Latin (I’ve always heard German invoked).

The Autism Policy Reform Coalition (APRC) has constituted itself as organizations in service of people with Autism who are coming together for the purpose of proposing meaningful legislation that will make a difference in the lives of those with Autism – their families, physicians, communities, and our nation. The following organizations are represented as APRC: National Autism Association (NAA), Generation Rescue, Talk About Curing Autism (TACA), Autism is Medical (AIM), Autism Trust U.S.A., D.A.I.R. Foundation (Defending Academic Integrity and Research), Safe Minds, Thinking Moms Revolution (TMR).”

Fowler does, however, provide further ammunition for the faux-Latin contention:

“Dryden’s earlier practice shows him following the English instinct ; his later shows him sophisticated with deliberate latinism :—‘ I am often put to a stand in considering whether what I write be the idiom of the tongue, . . . & have no other way to clear my doubts but by translating my English into Latin ‘ ; the natural inference from this would be : you cannot put a preposition (roughly speaking) later than its word in Latin, & therefore you must not do so in English. Gibbon improved upon the doctrine, &, observing that prepositions & adverbs are not always easily distinguished, kept on the safe side by not ending sentences with on, over, under, or the like, when they would have been adverbs.”

“….The APRC believes that a similar model to that described above would be the best possible way to make federal autism policy accountable and effective. We request that an Office of National Autism Policy be established, with a Director who is appointed by the President, directly accountable to Congress for results, and advised by a committee comprised substantially of stakeholders who would drive policy. National autism policy needs to be centralized and streamlined in order to effect change. Many people say that Congress won’t consider such a thing because “other diseases” don’t get the same treatment, but “other diseases” don’t affect 2% of the country’s 10-year-olds and are not associated with “bizarre” behavior patterns that make interacting with people in law enforcement, educational settings, group housing, and the work place problematic.

With clear goals in sight, the APRC hired Craig Snyder, who was very invested in autism policy while working for Autism Speaks back in 2006, when the CAA was authorized, and again in 2011, when it was reauthorized. Craig knows Washington inside and out but, what’s even better, he knows exactly what’s wrong with the CAA and IACC and why it needs to go away. In other words, he “gets us,” and he’s determined to get it right this time and produce a federal autism policy that will actually make a difference in the lives of people with autism, their families and the country as a whole. We’re very excited and energized to be working with him on this project….”

“….That’s precisely why Craig Snyder, a former lobbyist for Autism Speaks and a chief of staff to former Sen. Arlen Specter, is now president of the new Autism Super PAC.

The super PAC — which is not affiliated with other autism education organizations — plans to produce an advertising campaign aimed at convincing both President Barack Obama and Republican Mitt Romney to endorse its agenda, which includes demands to double federal autism research dollars by 2017 and create an autism research office within the National Institutes of Health. Formed last month, the group has already bankrolled pricey political polling indicating Americans are overwhelmingly supportive of increased federal autism funding.

If the candidates ignore the super PAC, Snyder said he’s prepared to launch a yet-to-be-produced advertising barrage against either candidate, regardless of who ultimately wins the White House. These ads, he said, would be “hard-hitting” in tone and tenor.

“There will be political consequences for ignoring our community and this issue,” Snyder said.

“As a super PAC, you can speak to power with so much more clarity — both the money in and message out are more open than they’d be otherwise,” he added. “Whatever you think of the Citizens United decision and super PACs, if these are going to be the rules, why not use them for causes you feel are important?”

A news article today says researchers have found differences in the gut microbes for autistic vs neurotypical children.

Finding gut-biome differences between Group1 and Group 2 is easy. The hard part is replicating the difference reported by the previous research team.
The “Biodesign Institute”? Really? They need to revise their Wikiweedia page and tone down some of the “renowned”s and “revognized”s until it is less obviously a piece of puffery they wrote themselves.

Reduced Incidence of Prevotella and Other Fermenters in Intestinal Microflora of Autistic Children

Scroll down to see the funding for that research….the Autism Research Institute:

“Funding: This research was funded by Autism Research Institute (San Diego, CA). The funders had no role in study design, data collection and analysis, decision to publish, or preparation of the manuscript.”

In the Abstract the authors feel obliged to call their analyses “rigorous”, implying an element of doubt. That’s not a good look, chaps. Nor is launching right into the “autism epidemic” in the second sentence of the text.

Saw an article today. I thought Orac might smile.
‘Only thing a detox flushes is cash’http://www.iol.co.za/lifestyle/only-thing-a-detox-flushes-is-cash-1.1691025#.U3tH09KSz7A
“You’ve taken the pills and potions, followed the special eating plan and sweltered in the body wraps.
Now you’re simply going to lie back and let your detox diet work its magic.
Or are you? Not if the latest report by a group of scientists is to be believed.
According to them, detox diets are a waste of time and money – and the only thing lost on them is your cash, they said.”

A guy on my Facebook with colon cancer posted this. So sad. The conspiracy theories followed. I posted Orac’s deconstruction of Chris Wark’s claims in response, but I worry the posters don’t have the mental capacity. Here’s a taste of what the facebook thread looked like:

Friend of acquaintance: “the cure for cancer, in all forms are already known to certain people…the big pharm is keeping it quiet because if it was worldwide known….spread out they would lose millions of donations per year. they are all about greed and power, they dont care about human lives. its a big scam. same with AIDS.”

Acquaintance with colon cancer: “Yup. They lose billions if people are cured. Good thing they weren’t around for typhoid lol”

Other Friend: “There was an SNL skit a few years ago where a guy got drunk, ran for president, and when he sobered up at the end of his term, found out he had cured AIDS and cancer in his first three weeks by infecting all the worlds leaders…. I don’t think it’s far from the truth.”

I really want to delete the acquaintance, but I also don’t want him to make horrible, irreversible decisions about his health.

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