Buc2 wrote:I never thought it would be built to begin with. I still don't think it will be. Well...I still hope it won't be anyway. I believe more needs to be done to protect our borders, but I don't see how a wall would accomplish the goal of tighter southern border security. Put that wall money into technology and hiring more border patrol agents (more jobs would be an added bonus). Just because I voted for Trump doesn't mean I automatically like all his ideas.

If he does get the wall started...funny will be watching the next guy halt construction and leave this half built, useless monument just sitting there. I wonder if we'll waste anymore money knocking down a partial wall...

mightyleemoon wrote:If he does get the wall started...funny will be watching the next guy halt construction and leave this half built, useless monument just sitting there. I wonder if we'll waste anymore money knocking down a partial wall...

I bet they will have some sort of ceremony with a hammer and some cameras.

Paul Ryan has already stated funding for remaining portions is in the current budget and will be approved to start construction.

The laws already exist to build the wall, so there is NO legislation required other than approving said budget.

DHS Secretary has stated the wall would be completed in 2 years.

Illegal Immigration currently costs this country around $100B per year, Obama doubled/raised the national debt from 10 Trillion to almost 20 Trillion in his 8 years. If the wall reduces the flow if illegal immigration and drugs from entering the country than $15B seems like a relatively worthy investment. Although it is humorous to hear Dems complain about government spending.

Lets not ignore the FACT that illegal immigrants and these refugees we are importing receive public assistance (our tax dollars) at percentages often higher than our own citizens, meaning there is higher % of refugees or illegal immigrants on public aid than almost any demographic of American citizen.

Illegal immigration is a major issue in this country and Mexico is the biggest offender. The issue is so bad imo that many Democratic leaders don't follow, or outright ignore federal laws and when speaking in public they refuse to even differentiate between an undocumented/ILLEGAL immigrants and ones that entered the country legally and has a visa or green card. It's sad they are grouped together as one for political leverage.

To me this all boils down to whether or not you believe the USA should have borders and laws that govern immigration. If you believe we should than the border wall shouldn't be much of a discussion, it was largely an issue with bi-partisan support before Trump. What to do w/ the undocumented illegals already here is another topic of discussion altogether. At a high level I'd be all for offering a path to citizenship for most, while deporting those that have been arrested and charged with violent and drug related crimes.

President Donald Trump’s “wall” along the U.S.-Mexico border would be a series of fences and walls that would cost as much as $21.6 billion, and take more than three years to construct, based on a U.S. Department of Homeland Security internal report seen by Reuters on Thursday.

The report’s estimated price-tag is much higher than a $12-billion figure cited by Trump in his campaign and estimates as high as $15 billion from Republican House Speaker Paul Ryan and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell.

The report is expected to be presented to Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Secretary John Kelly in coming days, although the administration will not necessarily take actions it recommends.

The plan lays out what it would take to seal the border in three phases of construction of fences and walls covering just over 1,250 miles (2,000 km) by the end of 2020.

With 654 miles (1,046 km) of the border already fortified, the new construction would extend almost the length of the entire border.

Many cost estimates and timelines have been floated since Trump campaigned on the promise of building a wall. The report seen by Reuters is the work of a group commissioned by Kelly as a final step before moving forward with requesting U.S. taxpayer funds from Congress and getting started on construction.

A DHS spokeswoman said the department does "not comment on or confirm the potential existence of pre-decisional, deliberative documents."

A White House spokeswoman said it would be “premature” to comment on a report that has not officially been presented to the president.

The report said the first phase would be the smallest, targeting sections covering 26 miles (42 km) near San Diego, California; El Paso, Texas; and in Texas's Rio Grande Valley.

The report assumes DHS would get funding from Congress by April or May, giving the department sufficient time to secure contractors and begin construction by September. Trump has said Congress should fund the wall upfront, but that Mexico will reimburse U.S. taxpayers. Mexico has said it will not pay.

Several U.S. congressional delegations are visiting the border this month to assess funding needs, according to several people familiar with the travel plans.

The report shows the U.S. government has begun seeking waivers to address environmental laws on building in some areas. It also shows the government has begun working with existing contractors and planning steel purchases for the project.

Trump told law enforcement officials on Wednesday, "The wall is getting designed right now."

The report accounted for the time and cost of acquiring private land, one reason for its steep price increase compared to estimates from Trump and members of Congress.

Bernstein Research, an investment research group that tracks material costs, has said that uncertainties around the project could drive its cost up to as much as $25 billion.

The second phase of construction proposed in the report would cover 151 miles (242 km) of border in and around the Rio Grande Valley; Laredo, Texas; Tucson, Arizona; El Paso, Texas and Big Bend, Texas. The third phase would cover an unspecified 1,080 miles (1,728 km), essentially sealing off the entire U.S.-Mexico border.

BARRIERS TO CONSTRUCTION

The report lays out costs to cover the border with barriers, but funding constraints and legal battles are likely to place limits on those plans.

It also does not account for major physical barriers, like mountains, in areas where it would not be feasible to build.

A source familiar with the plans said DHS may have to go to court to seek eminent domain in order to acquire some of the private land needed to cover the final and most ambitious phase.

The first phase, estimated to cost only $360 million, could be a relatively easy way for Trump to satisfy supporters eager to see him make good on his campaign promises to limit illegal migration. But the rest of the construction will be markedly more expensive, covering a much larger stretch of land, much of it privately owned or inaccessible by road.

In addition to seeking eminent domain and environmental waivers, the U.S. government would also have to meet the requirements of the International Boundary and Water Commission, a U.S.-Mexico pact over shared waters. The report estimated that agreement alone could bring the cost from $11 million per mile to $15 million per mile in one area.

NYBF wrote:You could probably do all these things since there's no way in hell it comes close to budget. And then when Mexico pays us back, *BOOM*, budget surplus.

We're up to $22Bil, or 1.5x one of your alternative programs.

For additional perspective, it took us $2.5 Billion, raised over the span of 10 years to achieve, arguably, the greatest scientific accomplishment in history; safely landing a science car on a different planet

NYBF wrote:We're up to $22Bil, or 1.5x one of your alternative programs.

For additional perspective, it took us $2.5 Billion, raised over the span of 10 years to achieve, arguably, the greatest scientific accomplishment in history; safely landing a science car on a different planet

1/10th of the cost of the wall

*1/10th of the projected cost of the wall so far

If they go through with building it, there's still no way in hell it comes close to that number.

NYBF wrote:We're up to $22Bil, or 1.5x one of your alternative programs.

For additional perspective, it took us $2.5 Billion, raised over the span of 10 years to achieve, arguably, the greatest scientific accomplishment in history; safely landing a science car on a different planet

beardmcdoug wrote:For additional perspective, it took us $2.5 Billion, raised over the span of 10 years to achieve, arguably, the greatest scientific accomplishment in history; safely landing a science car on a different planet

Edit: for clarification, yes putting humans on the moon was absolutely the greatest accomplishment - at the time. The risk involved with humans aboard the craft was the significance. Mars is another planet though, not just our satellite- and it's 650 times further away from us than the moon is. Safely landing a remote control car, with all scientific equipment intact, and to be able take pictures from the surface of another planet is mindblowing. It builds on the accomplishments made in the past, and by virtue of that, I'd reason that it is beyond them, and that's why I'd put it as "arguably" - I wouldnt try to argue if you want to say the moon landing was greater, it's just my option that Curiosity is

It didn't have nearly the pop culture impact as the moon, but what science-related thing does these days - people don't care if there's no immediate human drama involved

The first DACA member (or Dreamer) has been deported by the new administration's "deportation force" that has been running around the clock in the areas near me. This is antithetical to many of the stances held around here as most people thought the line should be drawn between "foreign criminals" and "undocumented innocents".

The lawyers of Juan Manuel Montes are suing the administration.

Their Judge:

Gonzalo Curiel

You might remember him as the judge that Trump mentioned (during the campaign):

It's amazing, to me, that "undocumented innocents", who are here illegally (making them, by definition, not innocent) still feel so entitled that they would sue the government that they illegally entered.

deltbucs wrote:Do you Trump supporters still really believe that Mexico is going to pay for the wall or do you now realize that you were conned?

The brighter ones will answer "B".

His whole damn campaign was a used car sales pitch. They ignored the bald tires, didn't notice there was no steering wheel, fluids leaking all over the place and the damn idiots bought the shit-ass car anyway...