adamatari:Considering the number of fujoshi out there, and the popularity of yaoi shipping not just in anime fandom but everywhere... I know MY preferences, but I sure wouldn't place bets on what's more popular. Kyoani's recent announcement of their new anime kinda reinforces this:

[ogmansblog.files.wordpress.com image 400x502]

farking ridiculous. Those gay men are not standing on anything solid. They would fall right in the pool.

Cyno01: skinink: I bet both are more accepted than transsexuals. If I remember even Dan Savage at one time had an issue with transsexuals. He may be over that now.

A lot of gays take issue with transsexuals, they consider them still closeted, sort of a "im a dude who likes the dick and i can admit that, im not a woman trapped in a mans body".

Which is absolutely idiotic, because there's a lot less social stigma for being gay than there is for trans people. Not to mention that there are an awful lot of trans women who are attracted to women, and by transitioning go from the social top of the heap as a heterosexual male to end up facing all the stigma of being a transgender lesbian.

Seriously, even if gay men may face more physical violence, educated white gay males are still awfully close to the top of the privilege heap by virtue of being educated white males.

Foxxinnia:Dudes know about the kinds of gross, awful shiat that a dude will do and say in order to fark ladies. Now, instead there being ladies, imagine the kinds of gross, awful shiat two dudes who want to fark will do and say to each other. It's all the awfulness of a dude multiplied. I bet ladies are way more chill about that sort of thing. That's far more tolerable.

No, that's not true.

Awful people are awful people, no matter what their orientation.

So you can have a situation with gay guys like you described where one or both of them are manipulative or abusive. One of my lesbian friends just got out of a vicious relationship with a very unpleasant woman. I'm sad to see her heartbroken but I'm glad she's moving on.

Anecdotally: yeah, the bad male-male relationships suffer from philandering and dominance that destroy so many straight relationships. Female-female relationships get the passive-aggressive needling and bitter vindictiveness that you enjoyed so much in those ex-girlfriends you were glad to be rid of.

Then you get the couples who more or less have their shiat together and they're fun to be around - this is true regardless of orientation.

Hmm, that's an interesting point I hadn't thought about. Invariably in BSA threads somebody gets up on the conspiracy theory that the BSA disallows gay men not because they're supposedly a bad example for the boys, but out of fear that they'll be unable to resist their urges to molest the kids. Banning lesbians wouldn't be consistent with that view, since there wouldn't be any girls around for them to molest.

Mugato:I'm all for every type of gay rights there are but there's no denying natural law that lesbians are awesome and gay male sex is horrendously horrid. Now of course there are heinous lesbians, just like any combinations of couples but at the core, everyone loves girl on girl action while the other is for nightmares of prison.

BarkingUnicorn:A patriarchal society places higher value on heterosexuality in men than it places on heterosexuality in women because women are less important than men.

Nonsense. Lesbianism is accepted because a caveman stumbling upon a pair of lesbians can hope to - and occasionally does - join in and get them both pregnant. Even if against their will. Thus the lesbianism trait gets passed on, and can actually furthers reproduction since 2 pregnancies can result.

A cavewoman stumbling upon a pair of dudes going at it can't get pregnant by both, and is unlikely to get pregnant at all if neither guy wants her or is too tired to service her.

Lesbianism is passed on and guys like it because it adds to reproductive success, while gay dude genes only get passed on when's gay dude suppresses his gayness and tries to be straight.

/ not that there's a gayness gen// overly simplistic explanation due to being on phone.

rynthetyn:MusicMakeMyHeadPound: RynthetynAww, you're adorable. Isn't it past your bedtime? We wouldn't want you to get in trouble with your mommy and daddy for staying up when you're supposed to be fast asleep.

I wasn't trolling, but thanks for leaping into my net?

Well then, if you weren't trolling, you really need to get out more.

I get out plenty.

I stated that I tend to dislike young lesbians because they're inappropriately hostile. Certainly not all, but enough to form a pattern that I've found to be right far more than it's wrong.

I understand why you would want to disagree with me, but surely there's a better way to do it than playing into my expectations.

rynthetyn:On a less than serious note, go read all of the batshiat insane fangirly comments on the picture that John Barrowman instagrammed today of him and Nathan Fillion and get back to me about society.

The reality is that when people talk about "society", what they really mean is, "what straight males think." Women aren't even part of the discussion.

You have a point. As long as the vast majority of executive positions in media outlets are held by white heterosexual males, the output of those outlets is going to be normalized to a degree to the views of most white heterosexual males.

When some Yaoi fans enter positions of power, maybe we'll see a push to normalize that type of behavior, but for now pop culture is predominantly determined, whether consciously or not, by the perceptions, perversions, and prejudices of a group of predominantly straight white guys.

AloysiusSnuffleupagus:Mugato: I'm all for every type of gay rights there are but there's no denying natural law that lesbians are awesome and gay male sex is horrendously horrid. Now of course there are heinous lesbians, just like any combinations of couples but at the core, everyone loves girl on girl action while the other is for nightmares of prison.

AloysiusSnuffleupagus:Mugato: I'm all for every type of gay rights there are but there's no denying natural law that lesbians are awesome and gay male sex is horrendously horrid. Now of course there are heinous lesbians, just like any combinations of couples but at the core, everyone loves girl on girl action while the other is for nightmares of prison.

You sound like a self-hating closeted homo.

Why is it a big deal if a straight person finds gay sex gross? I wouldn't be mad if gay people said they thought straight sex was gross. Bill Burr said it better than me when he brought up how people into feet grossed him out but that doesn't mean he wants to take their rights away.

skinink:I bet both are more accepted than transsexuals. If I remember even Dan Savage at one time had an issue with transsexuals. He may be over that now.

Dan Savage has issues with anyone who isn't a gay man. Transsexuals, bisexuals, lesbians.... he only fights for a rather small segment of the LBGTQ community, and the rest can go hang as far as he cares.

I thought boxing's a major US sport? Maybe the writer just didn't do her research properly.

Every Olympic diver/swimmer? Or are they still considered "amateurs"?

Boxing is a sport, diving and swimming are sports, none of them are 'major'. In the US major sports are Football, Basketball, Baseball, maybe Hockey (still on the edge but gaining ground) and on the outside looking in, Soccer (though with more immigration from south of the border, the Soccer situation can only get better).

Yeah, pretty much. But, oh...oh god. Usual she-male has a ....thingy... but there has to be a reverse thingy, with balls. Ugh. I just thought of a new "there is porn of it" in my head.

"Vest" or some derivation of it comes from some latin word to wear...or something. I dunno, look it up. I'm not sure why I get all Buzz Killington when it comes to referring to transvestites vs. transexuals.

So, anyone care to liven this thread up a bit??

Haw haw!!

I will amend my original answer from "she male porn" to "TS/TV/CD porn."

MurphyMurphy:I'm all for equality, but that concept does not preclude the very real traits and stereotypes typically inherent to each sex.

And while you will always find a 15/15/5/1/whatever% of individuals in each sex that bucks the trend, there are generalizations that can be made about each.

Women are by and large the finer of the two sexes and can be seen as more sensual, more open to emotional exchange, more touchy feely and objectively considered by both sexes as the more beautiful.

Throughout our entire history the female body has always been placed on a bit higher pedestal by our species. Of course there are plenty of examples of admiration of the male body, but usually it seems framed in a more utilitarian and mechanical way. I think part of the homophobia in many men is that to consider a homosexual/bisexual lifestyle for many is to violate that masculine image that is so important to their self image. Where as for females it only further supports the feminine worship that we historically seem inclined to.

I would also pose with no supporting evidence that self avowed heterosexual women are far more likely to experiment with the same sex... and I'm also guessing a larger percentage of the female sex identify as bisexual.

White_Scarf_Syndrome:Having read the article I can only say. WE DON'T CARE. Stop being gay in my face, just shut up, jesus. Good for you, you're persecuted. Peel off that equal sign bumper sticker, no one gives a fark and stop paying Jesus freaks attention. Blargh.

It's always fun when someone gets so angry and worked up about how they don't care about a topic. You don't care so much you're red in the face.

ciberido:White_Scarf_Syndrome: Having read the article I can only say. WE DON'T CARE. Stop being gay in my face, just shut up, jesus. Good for you, you're persecuted. Peel off that equal sign bumper sticker, no one gives a fark and stop paying Jesus freaks attention. Blargh.

It's always fun when someone gets so angry and worked up about how they don't care about a topic. You don't care so much you're red in the face.

Personally? I'd rather watch two men going at it than two women. I'm not attracted to women, so I wouldn't see the point of watching two of them pretend to be lesbians for however long it takes one to give the other an orgasm. At least with gay male porn, I'm watching a gender I'm sexually attracted to doing sexual things. That said, I think in general people are more accepting of lesbians than gay men because lesbian sex isn't seen as "dirty" by the more close-minded segments of our population.

MurphyMurphy:Summa cum loudly: The Greeks might disagree with you. And while you may disagree with them on that point, they kind of are responsible for the majority of Western Civilization. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

How so? Just because they didn't have the rampant homophobia our culture is working to shed itself of doesn't detract from anything I said.

As to what they have contributed to Western Civilization this specific topic doesn't enter into it. We have many things to thank the Greeks for in modern society but our social mores are not among them.

In fact those are the specific mores where we stand in stark contrast and it's those mores that were identified and attacked as Christianity replaced Paganism.

The invented a little thing we call democracy. You may have heard of it? It's something they used to teach grade schoolers along with the melting pot.

TuteTibiImperes:rynthetyn: On a less than serious note, go read all of the batshiat insane fangirly comments on the picture that John Barrowman instagrammed today of him and Nathan Fillion and get back to me about society.

The reality is that when people talk about "society", what they really mean is, "what straight males think." Women aren't even part of the discussion.

You have a point. As long as the vast majority of executive positions in media outlets are held by white heterosexual males, the output of those outlets is going to be normalized to a degree to the views of most white heterosexual males.

When some Yaoi fans enter positions of power, maybe we'll see a push to normalize that type of behavior, but for now pop culture is predominantly determined, whether consciously or not, by the perceptions, perversions, and prejudices of a group of predominantly straight white guys.

You'd think that network heads and studio execs would look at the numbers and realize that even though the LGBTQ contingent isn't that large of a demographic, straight females are eating that shiat up. A huge portion of the Glee audience is watching for Kurt and Blaine, and then you've got your shippers working overtime watching Supernatural, tumblr practically broke when The Doctor kissed Rory (even though it wasn't remotely a romantic thing), and well, the USA Network's bread and butter is the bromance. You'd think with all that they'd get the hint.

Are straight women really "two beers away from being bi?" Here comes the science. (Source: NYT)Dr. Chivers, a research fellow at the Center for Addiction and Mental Health at the University of Toronto ... published results of a study in which she showed people video clips of naked men and women in various sexual and nonsexual situations and measured their genital arousal. ...

"Heterosexual women are responding to women, which is counterintuitive," Dr. Chivers said. "Why are women so turned on by watching other women?" Straight and gay men, as well as lesbians, were more predictably aroused by images of their preferred sex, Dr. Chivers found. ...

"To conclude that women are bisexual on the basis of their sexual responding overlooks the complexity and multidimensionality of female sexuality," she wrote in her paper. She did allow that the apparent flexibility of women "may be related to greater potential for bisexuality in women than in men."

Giggity.

Dr. Chivers and her colleagues found women slightly but significantly aroused by footage of bonobo chimps mating. Men showed no such response.

BTW, can someone explain to me what this crap is about how all heterosexual women are secretly interested in getting it on with another woman. I'm a heterosexual woman, and I have never in my life thought about having sex with another woman. I don't get that shiat. Not the two women having sex bit, the other part. A few weeks ago my boyfriend and I were at a dinner party some mutual friends were throwing and the female half of that couple is bisexual and she asked me if I ever experimented with women in college, and I just gave her a funny look and said, "Fark no, I'm straight." She seemed honestly perplexed by my answer. She was like, "I thought all girls experiment in college. Didn't you have a few drinks and make out with a roommate?" After I told her I don't drink and had no interest in women in anyway that would require them to remove their panties in my presence, she said I was weird.

Am I weird? I don't think I'm weird. Do bisexual/gay men think it's weird when straight guys say they have no interest in experimenting with men? I think not. So why is it only women that get called weird for that?

Coco LaFemme:Am I weird? I don't think I'm weird. Do bisexual/gay men think it's weird when straight guys say they have no interest in experimenting with men? I think not. So why is it only women that get called weird for that?

You're not weird, but you can't deny women seem more open to homosexual experiences than men.

Coco LaFemme:BTW, can someone explain to me what this crap is about how all heterosexual women are secretly interested in getting it on with another woman. I'm a heterosexual woman, and I have never in my life thought about having sex with another woman. I don't get that shiat. Not the two women having sex bit, the other part. A few weeks ago my boyfriend and I were at a dinner party some mutual friends were throwing and the female half of that couple is bisexual and she asked me if I ever experimented with women in college, and I just gave her a funny look and said, "Fark no, I'm straight." She seemed honestly perplexed by my answer. She was like, "I thought all girls experiment in college. Didn't you have a few drinks and make out with a roommate?" After I told her I don't drink and had no interest in women in anyway that would require them to remove their panties in my presence, she said I was weird.

Am I weird? I don't think I'm weird. Do bisexual/gay men think it's weird when straight guys say they have no interest in experimenting with men? I think not. So why is it only women that get called weird for that?

Do you live in a sitcom? Who on real life says "Did you experiment in college?"

Not at all. I have preferences and do's/don'ts when it comes to sex, but that's down to what I'm comfortable doing, not what I think is gross/not gross. I don't think anal sex is gross, it's just not for me. However, we're talking about people who already view homosexuals, whether they're male or female, as some circus oddity to be gawked at on the midway. I can totally see them rationalizing lesbian sex as okay because no buttholes are involved, but gay male sex as wrong because they are.

Coco LaFemme:BTW, can someone explain to me what this crap is about how all heterosexual women are secretly interested in getting it on with another woman. I'm a heterosexual woman, and I have never in my life thought about having sex with another woman. I don't get that shiat. Not the two women having sex bit, the other part. A few weeks ago my boyfriend and I were at a dinner party some mutual friends were throwing and the female half of that couple is bisexual and she asked me if I ever experimented with women in college, and I just gave her a funny look and said, "Fark no, I'm straight." She seemed honestly perplexed by my answer. She was like, "I thought all girls experiment in college. Didn't you have a few drinks and make out with a roommate?" After I told her I don't drink and had no interest in women in anyway that would require them to remove their panties in my presence, she said I was weird.

Am I weird? I don't think I'm weird. Do bisexual/gay men think it's weird when straight guys say they have no interest in experimenting with men? I think not. So why is it only women that get called weird for that?

What? Pretty much any time a straight male says they don't like or are not interested in in gay sex, that is ipso facto proof they are secretly gay. For some reason this is treated as an argument winner, when really it deserves the answer the Joker got from the Batman in Dark Knight.

BarkingUnicorn:A patriarchal society places higher value on heterosexuality in men than it places on heterosexuality in women because women are less more important than men.

In a patriarchy, Women are objects. Objects having relationships with objects is irrelevant.

As long as most women give in, the rest can be raped into productive re-productivity if necessary, and most women dabble, so as long as we can believe that they'll all eventually pick a penis when they want a baby (and therefore the 'best' penis, which is really the ultimate gauge of competition)

Men are either competition, superiors or inferiors (winners, losers or competing) . A real gay relationship implies that one or both of the men have given up the competition process that is at the center or hetero value, therefore giving up an important part of manliness.

hundreddollarman:Here's the thing about lesbian porn for me. The Eastern European stuff is well-shot, with beautiful girls and very sensual. But it's also kind of boring. It's basically a half-hour of foreplay -- Girl A licks Girl B, then Girl B reciprocates. The American stuff has hot chicks and variety as far as sex acts go, but it's almost like watching straight porn, i.e. spitting, choking, dirty talk that's more inadvertently hilarious that it is arousing. I hope someone's gonna get it right and realize there's a middle ground there.

rubi_con_man:BarkingUnicorn: A patriarchal society places higher value on heterosexuality in men than it places on heterosexuality in women because women are less more important than men.

In a patriarchy, Women are objects. Objects having relationships with objects is irrelevant.

As long as most women give in, the rest can be raped into productive re-productivity if necessary, and most women dabble, so as long as we can believe that they'll all eventually pick a penis when they want a baby (and therefore the 'best' penis, which is really the ultimate gauge of competition)

Men are either competition, superiors or inferiors (winners, losers or competing) . A real gay relationship implies that one or both of the men have given up the competition process that is at the center or hetero value, therefore giving up an important part of manliness.

rubi_con_man:Men are either competition, superiors or inferiors (winners, losers or competing) . A real gay relationship implies that one or both of the men have given up the competition process that is at the center or hetero value, therefore giving up an important part of manliness.

You can't have a friend without trying to compete with him? This is what you think of all the other guys in your immediate area? You may benefit from some couchwork.

Coco LaFemme:After I told her I don't drink and had no interest in women in anyway that would require them to remove their panties in my presence, she said I was weird.

Am I weird? I don't think I'm weird. Do bisexual/gay men think it's weird when straight guys say they have no interest in experimenting with men? I think not. So why is it only women that get called weird for that?

So let me get this straight : You turned down someone who was even mildly interested in sexing you up and they insulted you ? That sounds par for the course for humanity.

BarkingUnicorn:A patriarchal society places higher value on heterosexuality in men than it places on heterosexuality in women because women are less important than men.

I live with my mom, didn't get any bites... but I LOL'd.

t3knomanser:....Height is a wonderful attribute, as it follows a standard distribution. It's the classic bell curve. If you plot all humanity on a bell curve for height, you're going to get a peak at around 5'4". 95% of human beings are between 3'4" and 6'2". ....

tl;dr

Nutshell: Average height for American women, 5'4"-5'5", American men, 5'10". Different in other countries, but men are always taller than women by a few inches.

So what does that mean, other than that men are superior/dominant? Nothing really, except for women's height fetish, which puts certain guys who are 5'8" at a definite disadvantage.