"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

In August 2018 Swedish teenager Greta Thunberg stood alone outside the Swedish parliament with a sign that said “Skolstrejk för klimatet.” On Friday 4 million people across the world joined her and walked out of their schools, jobs and homes and into the streets for a global Climate Strike.

New York, which hosted Thunberg, saw an estimated 250,000 show up. “If you belong to that small group of people who feel threatened by us, we have some very bad news for you, because this is only the beginning,” Thunberg told the crowd.

Millions of young people took to the world's cities Friday, flooding streets, blocking traffic and skipping school to take part in what is believed to be the biggest global climate protest in history.

The Youth Climate Strike drew potentially record crowds in several cities. In Australia, nearly 200,000 people protested in Melbourne and Sydney. Hundreds of thousands more—in Islamabad, Nairobi, Berlin, London, La Paz, New York, and as many as 1,500 other cities on every continent—joined in a global plea for elected leaders and governments to take action on the climate crisis.

"This is all wrong," said Thunberg, who was visibly emotional as she spoke on a panel at a U.N. climate summit Monday. With tears in her eyes and her face flushed, the 16-year-old activist - who began skipping school in her native Sweden a year ago to protest inaction on climate change - chastised the world leaders who had gathered in New York.

George Takei (@GeorgeTakei) 9/24/19, 3:08 PMTrump tweeted, with his usual sneering nastiness, that Greta Thunberg seems like "a very happy young girl looking forward to a bright and wonderful future." So she changed her Twitter profile to this.

You know the people who really impress me? The adults who take off work and sacrifice eight hours wages for this cause, even more than the ones who are kids who get permission slips from their parents.

You know the people who really impress me? The adults who take off work and sacrifice eight hours wages for this cause, even more than the ones who are kids who get permission slips from their parents.

Well, I have enough overtime to get from time to time a free afternoon without having to go on the holidays account.

“Yet again, we have seen the cruel and vindictive nature of a president who thinks it’s acceptable to hurl schoolyard taunts at this wonderful young woman instead of acting very interested in what she has to say and then doing nothing whatsoever about it,”

"the next time you want to speak to leaders who could benefit from being associated with climate activism, the Democratic party is here for you as long as the cameras are rolling and not a second longer."

"Why not"?"What are you afraid of"? Some of the most difficult questions to answer for our 'leaders'.

Trying to answer these questions is going to give them a hell of a lot of stress and headscratching, because, they must think of themselves as 'sane'. But there are absolutely no sane answers to those questions.

They have to come to the conclusion that they are 'not sane' at all, or keep on lying.

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"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning S. PoelsmaPrisons in your head!

"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning S. PoelsmaPrisons in your head!

Since this beautiful Guardian video is about young people, I put it here.

(3m09)

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"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning S. PoelsmaPrisons in your head!

I have never seen so many articles on climate change and associated topics, as I see now. She has certainly tipped the scales. Will it help? I certainly hope so, though the old and greedy people's inertia is very strong.

I have never seen so many articles on climate change and associated topics, as I see now. She has certainly tipped the scales. Will it help? I certainly hope so, though the old and greedy people's inertia is very strong.

I'm worried that it might only support greenBAU, excepted if people would really start to reduce their consumption, but I don't feel that many people get the point.

"If you don't know how to fix it, please stop breaking it." That's from Severn Cullis Suzuki, 12 years old at the Earth Summit, 1992 in Rio. Thanks to Terry for giving the info.

I have never seen so many articles on climate change and associated topics, as I see now. She has certainly tipped the scales. Will it help? I certainly hope so, though the old and greedy people's inertia is very strong.

I'm worried that it might only support greenBAU, excepted if people would really start to reduce their consumption, but I don't feel that many people get the point.

"If you don't know how to fix it, please stop breaking it." That's from Severn Cullis Suzuki, 12 years old at the Earth Summit, 1992 in Rio. Thanks to Terry for giving the info.

I think that you have a very good point. GreenBAU can also include massive geo-engineering such as Solar Radiation Management, and massive industrial scale efforts to "recycle" emitted carbon dioxide - all good profitable opportunities. "Saving the Planet" can take many forms. This is the worry that I have about Extinction Rebellion, they end up supplying the overlying narrative for further industrializing the planet rather than propose solutions. "Just fix it" may be ambiguous enough for a "big tent" movement, but can then be used by economic elites for their own beneficial (and incredibly risky) answers. Anything but actually reducing elite consumption and wealth.

Schwarzenegger arranged for Thunberg to have a Tesla Model 3 at her disposal as she made her way from the United States to a climate rally in Montreal, ensuring that she could get around in as environmentally friendly a way as possible.

A Yacht built for a Rothschild and now earned by the Grimaldi family dynasty (the Grimaldis that have ruled Monaco since the 14th century and are worth about $1 billion), a Tesla from Schwarzenegger (worth about $400 million), Greta is certainly blessed with elite connections. Pure hypocrisy for the elites, given their massive personal consumption and wealth all dependent on fossil fuels. No real change comes from such elite supported "revolutionaries".

A Yacht built for a Rothschild and now earned by the Grimaldi family dynasty (the Grimaldis that have ruled Monaco since the 14th century and are worth about $1 billion), a Tesla from Schwarzenegger (worth about $400 million), Greta is certainly blessed with elite connections. Pure hypocrisy for the elites, given their massive personal consumption and wealth all dependent on fossil fuels. No real change comes from such elite supported "revolutionaries".

The optimist in me likes to think these rich and powerful folks want to jump Greta’s bandwagon because they like her message and they see her as a potential catalyst for change.

Good old Arnold isn't such a bad guy I think. A bit smarter than the rest but he is caught in the groupbehaviour of the very rich and powerful and addicted to being affluent. Is he honest? Difficult to see.I liked this interview from 28 may:(16m05)

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"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning S. PoelsmaPrisons in your head!

A Yacht built for a Rothschild and now earned by the Grimaldi family dynasty (the Grimaldis that have ruled Monaco since the 14th century and are worth about $1 billion), a Tesla from Schwarzenegger (worth about $400 million), Greta is certainly blessed with elite connections. Pure hypocrisy for the elites, given their massive personal consumption and wealth all dependent on fossil fuels. No real change comes from such elite supported "revolutionaries".

The optimist in me likes to think these rich and powerful folks want to jump Greta’s bandwagon because they like her message and they see her as a potential catalyst for change.

Greta is in a feel good video pushing "natural climate solutions" which is really the "natural capital solutions" with a more cuddly name - i.e. the privatization of nature and the failed REDD (polluters buy carbon offsets rather than actually cut emissions, usually on highly questionable sequestration claims) on steroids in the name of ecosystem services to be implemented at the upcoming 2020 UN conference on Biodiversity.

This is the "Extinction Revolution"?, you (and Greta unfortunately) are being played by the elites. Its the classic redirection of popular energy into meaningless avenues, or even into ones that benefit those elites. Lots of money to be made in ecosystem services, and lots of opportunities for the greenwashing of big polluters. Also, lots of possibilities for throwing poor people of their lands in the name of "saving forests" and conservation.

In my view, they don't lauch the solution (planting trees) but the first step; a path to a solution. Planting trees means going outside and meeting other people. Outside in the fields sharing the work and cooperating, getting 'dirty'. This has an enormous potential for social reconnection and shared wisdom and knowledge. To go outside of your groups, your 'comfortzone'. To meet people different from you and unite. When that happens, the chance to get meaningful change increases considerably.

Because of my observations of current civilisation, I doubt that humans still have the ability to reconnect, to unite. There seems to be in general no survival instinct, no mother instinct, strong egocentric behaviour and very low morality and empathy. I wish I were wrong.

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"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning S. PoelsmaPrisons in your head!

"Planting trees means going outside and meeting other people. Outside in the fields sharing the work and cooperating, getting 'dirty'. This has an enormous potential for social reconnection and shared wisdom and knowledge. "

Absolutely. I have planted thousands of threes in my life, many in cooperation with my neighbours, but many with people i met then for the first time. In all kindsa weather and from all walks of life. Amazing what you learn.

Just go out and talk to your neighbours is a good start. Research your local terrain, judge what is to come, and plant a tree or a hundred with your neighbours. Some of them might be, (gasp!) Trump supporters. And who knows, (heaven forfend) you might like some.

There are local restoration groups all over the place. Work with them, If there isn't one in your neighbourhood, start one. Put your signs up with the local "Lost Cats" and "Yard Sale" signs. Allah willing, you might make a friend or a dozen, find a lost cat or three. And plant a buncha trees or a rain garden or a windbreak.

I don't think that what history tells us. It's been common for individuals who are catalysts for social change to often often had wealthy patrons. Marx was supported by Engels. Gandhi had wealthy patrons. Buddha and his followers had wealthy patrons. The Peasant's Revolt in England had members of the aristocracy involved.

To be sure, no such individuals who catalyzed change were supported by the powerful classes as a whole. But there are enlightened, selfless individuals among all classes of society. We shouldn't pigeon-hole all poor individuals as the being the same, neither should be pigeon-hole the wealthy.

<snip>We shouldn't pigeon-hole all poor individuals as the being the same, neither should be pigeon-hole the wealthy.

I agree, but there is this thing about personal responsibility. The part of the wealthy that has consumerist behaviour. In reality all the wealthy are not sharing and they have on average bad behaviour concerning the climate- and biocollapse- crises.Cognitive dissonance, is that OK? Shame? Guilt? What do you think?

Edit: By wealthy I mean very rich. The worldview of the rich people changes the higher they get on the hierarchy ladder. Picking up supremacy on the way up. Wanting to belong to the 'better' and 'higher' groups.

« Last Edit: September 30, 2019, 05:48:05 PM by nanning »

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"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning S. PoelsmaPrisons in your head!

• We need new, clean, more-energy-efficient tech to replace the dirty, inefficient fossil fuel tech we grew up on.• New tech is more expensive than old tech.• Someone has to pay more for the first new products, until its usefulness is proven, mass production catches up and prices become more affordable.• Disparaging the “rich” and the “elite” for helping make new clean tech financially viable for the companies — which will eventually lead to mass production with lower costs, making the new clean tech affordable for the non-rich — is hypocritical.

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People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning S. PoelsmaPrisons in your head!

<snip>We shouldn't pigeon-hole all poor individuals as the being the same, neither should be pigeon-hole the wealthy.

I agree, but there is this thing about personal responsibility. The part of the wealthy that has consumerist behaviour. In reality all the wealthy are not sharing and they have on average bad behaviour concerning the climate- and biocollapse- crises.Cognitive dissonance, is that OK? Shame? Guilt? What do you think?

Edit: By wealthy I mean very rich. The worldview of the rich people changes the higher they get on the hierarchy ladder. Picking up supremacy on the way up. Wanting to belong to the 'better' and 'higher' groups.

What poor person doesn't want to be less poor? What middle class person doesn't want to be upper-middle class? It's like that all the way up and down the spectrum.

I've lived among the Ivy League set and the homeless. They're more alike than different, in many respects. They certainly share an ignorance of and disdain for people at the opposite end of the socio-economic spectrum.

I think individuals who amass wealth approach the task much as a video game addict approaches reaching the next level on Call of Duty. Having this kind of demanding focus doesn't tell you much about what they're like like when they're not playing their game.

I think individuals born into wealth are also diverse. Do remember that the offspring of John D. Rockefeller divested from fossil fuels. Being rich, even ungodly rich, does not imply a disregard for doing the right thing.

Steve writes: "We shouldn't pigeon-hole all poor individuals as the being the same..."

But then immediately turns around and pigeon-holes every poor person as being the same: "What poor person doesn't want to be less poor? "

WTF?

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"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

Eric Holthaus (@EricHolthaus) 10/7/19, 5:49 PMOne year ago, Greta Thunberg began a one-person school strike.This week, she will likely win the Nobel Peace Prize.Her message to world leaders is really a message to all of us: "Change is coming whether you like it or not." smh.com.au/world/europe/g…

Vienna: Two days after rallying 7 million protesters across the world by invoking the threat of climate change, Greta Thunberg was credited for motivating voters to redraw the political landscape in Austria.

After being frozen out of parliament just two years ago, the Alpine country's Greens unexpectedly tripled their support in Sunday's election to win 14 per cent of the vote, according to preliminary projections. The result sets up the group as a viable coalition partner for Sebastian Kurz's People's Party and shows how environmental concerns are moving to the top of the political agenda in Europe. ...

Thunberg arrived in the U.S. in August and has since toured the country and Canada. On Sunday, she joined Iron Eyes on a panel on the climate crisis hosted by the Lakota People’s Law Project at the Pine Ridge Reservation in South Dakota where Iron Eyes lives. Thunberg will be speaking on another panel Tuesday at Standing Rock in North Dakota, the site of a seminal 2016 protest over the Dakota Access Pipeline.

Welcoming a blue-eyed European to lands that many Native Americans in the region consider sacred is no little thing. These lands were pillaged and destroyed by people who looked like Thunberg, and there’s a long history of continued racism perpetrated on tribes by white Americans. Few white folks are received with such love and gratitude as what Thunberg has seen....First of all, Thunberg is a child. And homegirl is out here doing more than plenty of adults in the climate space. She’s a kid willing to say whatever she wants to whomever she wants (such as calling out the elite at the World Economic Forum for their role in the climate crisis in January 2019). Thunberg can get away with such bold statements, in part, because she’s this seemingly innocent-looking, blue-eyed white girl. But the teen has been clear about using her privilege to provide support and allyship to her fellow youth of color who are not media darlings. ...