Thursday, February 15, 2007

Grammar bugs

So in my last post, we had a minor discussion over where it was appropriate to use the construct "my brother and I" versus "my brother and me". I've learned that I was wrong about how I used it (although I'll leave the prior post as it stands, since the comments won't make sense otherwise), and I'm happy that I've been reminded of the correct usage now. The big question of the day, however, is what sorts of grammar or spelling mistakes really bug you?

Some of my personal pet peeves include the misuse of words (look them up in the dictionary, if you don't know what they mean, people), the misuse of apostrophes, and spelling mistakes like "lose/loose". I'm tolerant of people making typos, since we're all human, and that's what copy-editors are really for in the whole grand scheme of publishing. But I seriously once had to read through an entire manuscript about poker, where the author just didn't know that when someone loses a poker game, the correct word to use is "lose". Oy.

I tend to make the I/me mistake in that instance, too.Spelling of "separate" as "seperate" tends to turn my crank.What bugs me the most is not the odd error, but the language nazi who, in his haste to slam some poor sod, fails to grasp that words may have more than one meaning.

I'm also from the apostrophe camp, drives me mad. But the biggest one for me actually is the "me" "I" problem. It frustrates me so much that I wrote it into my children's novel with the goal of teaching a generation how to use them properly!

I took a look at the previous thread to see what was said about "my brother and I/me" thinking back to fourth grade when Mrs Gibson told us to check and see how it sounds with just "I" or "me", then I saw someone's comment about using "we/us" in place of "my brother and I" and realized the pure genius of that approach as it doesn't change the meaning of the sentence (and makes it easier to see that you want to say "between you and me"). "They/them" will work for checking phrases that include "he/she" rather than "I"

For me, I go nuts with the whole it's vs its construct. The number of people who think the possessive form takes an apostrophe always surprises me, especially when I see it on professional signs, flyers etc. I mean, didn't anyone think to check?

I can "hang in there" with bad speaking grammer, although poor grammer in the written word bothers me, BUT what really grates is all the "like" inserts in conversation now-a-days. Isn't that called "valley talk"? "What-ever" ranks right up there also. Enough! Every third word does not have to be "like" or "what-ever"!

But kudos to all the authors who have the younger generation reading again, prying them from the TV and X-box world.

My biggest pet peeve about grammar is when people have pet peeves about grammar and are all snooty about it (like our friend Jack).

I know an author who has mastered the lay/lie rules. Many people just flat out don't get it. But she's so annoying about how stupid and completely idiotic she thinks people are if they use the words incorrectly.

At a conference I once muttered that I need to go lay down for a nap, and she corrected me in front of a bunch of people. And she was serious---"James, it's I need to LIE down for a nap, not LAY down for a nap!". It bugged the crap out of me.

My biggest one has to be lose/loose. As a big sports fan, I see people misuse that ALL THE TIME on sports blogs. I just don't get that one.

Well, I use "would've" in my writing, and I'm not sorry about it. It's a real word. But that's okay. I can accept the fact that I'm on someone's pet peeve list. My husband is on mine! He writes plays, and he once wrote this stage direction: "He stairs at Bob." Argh! He's a wizz at math, but man, it's hell to edit his stuff.

I agree with this, though: "My biggest pet peeve about grammar is when people have pet peeves about grammar and are all snooty about it." I remember on Kristin Nelson's blog recently, someone who had a problem with Kristin jumped all over her because she made a grammar mistake in her post. I was like (eek, someone else's pet peeve!), "Grow up, people." It's fine to have pet peeves, but don't be bitchy about them. (And I don't think anyone here has been bitchy, BTW. I'm just making this point for what I've seen in general.)

My biggest gripe is people who go around pointing out grammar and spelling mistakes. If I see a few mistakes, I attribute them to typos and brain farts. If I see numerous mistakes, I take away a bad impression of that person. But I don't mention them unless asked.

There/their/they're, your/you're, who's/whose, it's/its, loose/lose, all ready/already, and sight/site/cite (usually preceded by "web") are among my pet peeves. There are probably more in this category that aren't coming to mind at the moment.

I suppose some of those are considered apostrophe abuse, but the one that really sets my teeth on edge is the use of apostrophes to form plurals. "Put three book's on each table." WTF?

I can explain the grammar of lie/lay/laid/lain. But what I can't do is use it correctly without stopping to think. I think my comma usage is decent enough, but I know there are a few aspects I haven't fully grasped. I struggle with when to use "which" and when to use "that".

I'm fairly tolerant of spelling mistakes, although I don't consider using the wrong word to be a spelling mistake. There are several words I can't seem to learn to spell correctly. Bernita's "separate" is one of them. So is "occasional". On the other hand, I don't think there's much excuse these days for not spellchecking.

Punctuation. Specifically, a surfeit of punctuation. I edit a club magazine and most contributors give me unlimited freedom to fix their mistakes, except *one* person, and of course *he* is the one who ends every other sentence with ...!!. (yes, that is an ellipsis, two exclamation marks and a full stop).

My pet grammar peeve is ending a sentence with a preposition (or a clause with a preposition). Makes me nuts, but I never correct anyone. I just hear it like fingernails on the proverbial chalkboard, then I breathe deeply and move on.

My pet grammar peeve is ending a sentence with a preposition (or a clause with a preposition). Makes me nuts, but I never correct anyone. I just hear it like fingernails on the proverbial chalkboard, then I breathe deeply and move on.

As Winston Churchill said, "That is the sort of English up with which I will not put."

I'm with James. Aren’t these sorts of discussions a little pedantic and small minded? I mean, ewes peoples must, like really hate Shakespeare, and anyone who wrote before the standardisation of the Queens English (and yes, it’s a (s) in the queen’s tongue).

However, if pushed, I really loathe the Americanisation of the English language. I find it lazy. Catalog, is frigging catalogue, behavior is behaviour and so on ... . And the insistence need to roll your s’s … damn, has someone just put fingernails to chalk board?

I'm super sensitive about overused commas, or a parenthetical comma without a partner. This is subjective, I know, because commas don't have to be grammatically incorrect to be out of place. They just have to interrupt the narrative flow.

For example: "So in my last post, we had a minor discussion over where it was appropriate to use..."

Now, technically, a comma could have gone after "So," because "in my last post" is a parenthetical interjection. However, I would instead take OUT the comma after "post," as it doesn't contribute anything but a pause, which isn't necessary.

Example: "... my personal pet peeves include the misuse of words (look them up in the dictionary, if you don't know what they mean, people)..."

The comma after "dictionary" makes me feel like I've stubbed my toe.

Sorry to use your words as an example! It's my comma compulsion, I'm very sick. One of my friends uses at least nine in every sentence and it drives me batty.

Mr Frederick: You have to memorize which is the noun (effect) and which is the verb (affect). Just think of a movie's "special effects." Noun.

snarkfodder, it's not a problem at all for you to use my own words as an example. =) In regards to my use of commas, I use them in different ways, depending on the context. When I write this blog, I use the commas as if I was speaking to you; imagine me talking out loud, and that's why the commas are in there--it's where my natural pauses would be. In a formal essay, however, I would use commas in a more consistent manner with the formal rules of grammar.

There's a great book, the title of which I forget right now, which explains the evolution of languages and why there's a distinct difference between spoken and written languages, especially in regards to grammar (and also how writing on the internet is different from formal writing). Now I have to go figure out which book it is, since it's going to drive me crazy until I do.

Too many to list. Probably the homophone errors are the most annoying, as they reveal that the person is relying too heavily on their spellcheck. Then again, I annoy people by suggesting they learn the language instead of trying to rationalise it. So it's turnabout.

"Everyone should get their coats" is fine by me. It was considered correct English usage for centuries until there was an effort to stamp it out, starting in the 1800s. That effort never took. People naturally prefer a gender-neutral pronoun, but as English only offers the impersonal "it," we tend to use the plural. Why bow to the artificial rule?

Don't get me wrong -- I love rules that work for us. I will fight for "whom" in its rightful place forever. But obeying rules that work against us, that no longer reflect how people actually use and understand language (or never did reflect it) too easily becomes pedantry.

Every time I drive to the library, I'm forced to see a sign across the street that says "Condo's for sale." Every single time, I ask myself "Condo's what for sale? Dishwashers? Front doors? Staircases?"