The overall turnout is very low. With a General Election or a Referendum possibly double or more people taking part.
Many will draw conclusions from these results and possibly aggregate different parties figures to prove something or other. Two things, for me, it has proved that people do not like politicians who do not carry out electoral commitments, and (more importantly) people respond to the challenges to our democratic process and accept decisions even when they go against them. Much has, and will, be said about the lamentable state of affairs surrounding Brexit. Even as someone who, on balance, supports our withdrawal, I think it could and should have been handled much more intelligently. Both our two party political ruling monopoly and those across Europe are now in the melting pot. How it will finish up is anyones guess, but both the Conservatives and Labour parties have seriously jepodised their status simply by not carrying out the will of the people in a time honoured process. Lastly, to placate some of the scaremongering going on, politics is one thing, trade is something else. Regardless of our domestic problem we will still trade with Europe.

Nodge

28th May, 2019 at 12:28 pm

El Fab must be absolutely sh*tting it, if a GE is called soon and Brexit Party stand in Lichfield he’s OUTTA HERE!

“but both the Conservatives and Labour parties have seriously jepodised [sic] their status simply by not carrying out the will of the people in a time honoured process.”

Only the Conservatives are in power.

“Regardless of our domestic problem we will still trade with Europe.”

Well, there’s a flippant sentence that hides a multitude of legal and trade barriers that will pop-up if we leave with no deal.

Philip Allso

28th May, 2019 at 2:40 pm

@Darryl Godden. It seems obvious to me that the two major parties are in a position where they will lose a substantial number of their supporters by adopting any one line or another. This puts them in a jepodised position. There is no way out of this, especially as the electorate has demonstrated it can and will act against them. The Brexit party is simplistic in its stance but appears to reflect what people want. Having had a referendum there is no way of reversing that without consequences. A further referendum could destabilize our political setup and parliamentary representation as has been demonstrated in these recent elections. Are you prepaired to risk that? While Labour is not in power it has done nothing (not that is has been asked to!) to help resolve the situation. When Mays agreement is not acceptable to her own party it is unlikely to appeal to the opposition. The vote count was in any case embarrassing. You find time to criticise my contributions (I’m fine with that) but rarely offer pears of wisdom of your own. On trade deals. The EU have farmers and industries and services that exceeds our balance of trade with them. They also have governments who are answerable to them. The pressure on those governments to strike deals with us will be enormous. It will not be a walk in the park but the country has been put in a position where we need to move forward in the least damaging way. To now go beyond October 31st….Well what do you think? With the Consevative turmoil surrounding its leader there will not be time for either a General Election or another referendum.

Christine Rapley

31st May, 2019 at 6:55 am

The Brexit Party is really UKip plus disenchanted Tories. It’s not a new party. It has no manifesto or any clue as to how Brexit could be delivered. Brexit will go on for decades unless it is stopped. Far better to damage our so called democracy and find a way to call a halt to this fiasco. No Deal Brexit would place UK in the very worst position for making any deal with any country. And it will take years. Many No Deal voters are clueless as to consequences. The Brexit Party only mopped up UKip and Tory & Labour leave votes. The biggest swing was by Remain parties, but the media largely ignores it. The problem about Brexit is that it is undeliverable without making us rule takers with no benefits whatsoever. It can only be resolved by either Referendum, Revoking A50 or General Election. Tory leadership battle is not going to solve anything. Inevitably we face either revoking A50, another Referendum or General Election. No Deal should never appear on any ballot paper and no responsible government would allow it. Because millions of people really would vote for it. People who don’t care about the wellbeing of the country and who have no regard for jobs or prosperity. This is a crisis caused by Tory government, Farage and the media. Corbyn/Milne/McConnell much to blame. Politicians who advocate No Deal Brexit are exploiters who should be nowhere near government. Every day that passes we lose jobs and money. Our public services will suffer, as will the majority of even those who want Brexit for their own bizarre and wrong reasons. UK needs proportional representation. If we get another hung Parliament it may happen eventually. Something fundamental needs to be done about our electoral system. Apparently it’s estimated that over 1.5 million people were denied their democratic right to vote in the EU elections in UK. Politics is too dirty to survive in its current form.

Joanne Grange

1st June, 2019 at 11:26 am

@Christine… I think you missed out some words at the start – “In my opinion…”.

The big problem with Brexit is polarisation between leave supporters and remain supporters and in my opinion suggesting the other side is too stupid to understand the consequences of their decision contributes hugely to positions on both sides becoming entrenched.

I find it absolutely fascinating that each side of the debate claimed victory in the EU elections by slicing and dicing which parties they would include in “their” count. It cannot be denied that the Brexit party “won”. Equally it cannot be denied that parties who support remaining did very well and the Tories and Labour had a shocking night. But drawing any other conclusions is surely just confirmation bias in action if the conclusion drawn gives the answer you want and believe in.

Rob

1st June, 2019 at 1:01 pm

Hi Christine. Just offering my thanks to you for deciding what the rest of us should be allowed to vote for and the manner in which we should do it. What lucky people we are.

I agree with you, Joanne. The worrying part is that the continuing saga of the Tory leadership shark-frenzy plus the imminent Brexit date means that the chance of becoming the 51st State of the USA is that little bit greater. No sane voice – and there are quite a few, like Heseltine, McDonnell and Lucas – is allowed a wide audience by the media (largely controlled by self-interested billionaires or Tory apparatchiks).

Those who have kept up will realise we are faced with multiple challenges, including the ownership of everything in the UK, that can only be solved by a ‘Take it back’ strategy within an agreement (possibly a Norway style?) that the majority can sign up to by voting using STV or similar system. Many local politicians of all parties would love to move to STV, PR, list hybids or similar voting systems, and STV to me, in a fully informed vote denuded of lies, seems the only way to unite the countries of the UK.

Steve

4th June, 2019 at 2:49 pm

It will be interesting to see if Chuka Umunna joins the Lib Dems and then tries to become its leader.

Then the Lib Dems can have their own infighting.

Joanne Grange

4th June, 2019 at 4:31 pm

@John – I’m really not convinced another vote is going to solve anything, regardless of the voting system used.

It seems to me that there are many economic, trade and “logical” arguments being made on both sides, but not everyone makes decisions based on economic, trade and “logical” arguments.

For a lot of people the decision was made on more emotional and intangible bases – sovereignty, self-determination, desire to be European, fear of change etc etc. Economic, trade and “logical” arguments are not relevant to everyone and unless we all start to recognise that everyone’s opinion is equally valid and not “right” or “wrong”, regardless of the basis on which they made their personal decision, another vote is just going to entrench positions even further.

I have no idea how we’ll get over the Leave/Remain splits that exist but I’m pretty certain shouting “you’re wrong!” at people and trying to argue them into submission (whichever side of the great divide you’re on!) is only going to get up people’s noses and result in more arguments rather than healing the split.

Rob

4th June, 2019 at 4:41 pm

Loving the school-teacher speak John. Shame you can’t switch off.

Christine Rapley

5th June, 2019 at 6:29 am

In my opinion the problem with the UK is corrupt politicians and media. Wealthy liars are believed. There can be no healing of a country that is split. Brexit is insane. Ordinary people did not give the EU a thought or concern until the exploiter MPs – so called Eurosceptic started pushing for a Referendum. Parliament has the answer. A referendum perhaps is not the answer. Because UK does not have fair elections. Neither does it have a fair or honest electoral system. FPTP does not serve the country or its people. Those politicians who knowingly lie to win a vote or gain power go completely unpunished. Leaving the EU has already cost us £66 billion before it’s even started. Over 233000 jobs have gone. The NHS is under threat. Hard Brexit loses us prosperity and threatens security.
No Deal would drag on for years, and UK has the weakest of hands.
The way it looks at present is that the Brexit Party aka UKip/ worst exploiter Tories might win a General election. The Conservative Party seems destined to die out. But just like Theresa May’s Withdrawal Agreement is BRINO, they will simply re-emerge within the Brexit Party. Many people actually believe that UK loses sovereignty unless Brexit happens.
The general public are mostly incapable of finding out for themselves what Brexit really is. MPs, Farage and his awful bunch of MEPs, and media feed them lies. Wilfully.
I listen to debates and committees on Parliament TV and have been able to get information that way. The BBC is heavily biased towards Brexit. This disaster has to end soon. The best way forward is for Parliament to do its job. To use the 2016 Referendum and all the information they now have to tell the country that Brexit is undeliverable. There are a number of ways in which it could be brought to an end – Revoke Article 50; Another referendum (without No Deal on any ballot paper and choice between WA and Remain) – or a General Election. A country is being ruined by bent tax avoiding politicians and ill informed voters. Farage might win. But his so called party have no plan for Brexit. Any more than do the poor quality contenders for Tory leadership. And how long can Tories retain government with a No Deal leader? It will be resolved one way or another – but how long will it continue to drag on as jobs decline?
The reality is that we can’t afford Brexit. And still no-one has come forward with any actual benefits.

We can’t depend on trade deals with far and distant countries to replace our current excellent deal with the EU27. Parliament should revoke Article 50. Unless government has a viable plan to carry out Brexit it will remain unsolveable. As for healing the split. That’s not the real problem. The real problem is the gap between the rich and poor. The lack of concern for the welfare of the country as a whole. And the lack of respect for the devolved nations.

UK is in a very bad place right now. It may get much worse. I blame the politicians and the media. Not the electorate, although we see an ugly right wing element. UK needs complete electoral reform. And lying politicians need to be held to account with removal from office.

Philip Allso

5th June, 2019 at 9:18 am

I don’t know where people have been living over the last decade (and continuing) but we have suffered the worst period of austerity since the last war. How has our trade with the EU mitigated this? Even prior to the referendum (Christine Rapley) many had concerns about immigration. It only became apparent afterwards that EU rules meant we had no control over this issue. Two to three hundred thousand immigrants each year brings with it many, many problems. No right thinking person thinks everything is wrong with the EU. If it had been prepaired to reform in the face of changing and unforseen circumstances then things would have been different. It wouldn’t! That led to the referendum and where we are now. We are not alone in this, many Europeans (France, Germany, Italy etc.) are having grave doubts. It is on the news but many ignore it! Water under the bridge now. Parliament has engineered itself into a position that endangers our whole democratic system. It would be very naive to treat this lightly. The exploiters of capitalism have gone too far.

John Griffin

6th June, 2019 at 6:49 pm

It’s a pity that the reality is that very strict immigration controls under EU from 2005 were NOT signed up to by BLiar but that’s so businesses could undercut wages as a deliberate profiteering strategy, continued by the Tories who pretended to reduce immigration. Since immigrant s have been exhaustively proven to be of benefit to the country’s economy, we are merely left with the xenophobia and outright racism now being fuelled post Brexit.

Philip Allso

7th June, 2019 at 8:44 am

If your argument holds any credibility John Griffin then why not increase annual immigration to a million or so a year and solve all our economy problems? My concerns are for housing, schooling and medical provision amongst other impacts. Your “exhaustively proven benefits” have certainly been true for cheap labour in hospitality and agricultural bussiness. The costs to the wider communities are far less beneficial. Also you are certainly correct in that it has substantially reduced the earning potential in some forms of employment. We are told there is a shortfall of one and a half million houses, a shortage of G.Ps. and an overburdened hospital system. The same can be said for schooling and other services. The immigration level exacerbates these problems. It is not “merely xenophobia” and “outright racism” it is all about statistics. A sponge can only hold so much water. Our society has thresholds too. Business loves cheap labour. As I have already said they exploit the situation for their own ends and in the process brain wash others into thinking this is a good thing.

Rob

7th June, 2019 at 5:24 pm

Good points Philip.It is odd that a lot of people extolling the “benefits” of immigration are very often the same ones complaining about the shortage/cost of housing. Maybe they’ve invested heavily in concrete?
On a separate note, I’ve not noticed the enthusiastic extrapolation of votes in the Peterborough by-election for leave/remain intentions that were prevalent after the recent EU elections. I wonder why that is?

Philip Allso

8th June, 2019 at 9:05 am

@Rob….. Probably because a ‘single issue’ party is fine as far as it goes but too narrow for national government. Without a track record it is difficult to evaluate what impact Brexit MPs might have on other issues. I doubt the result of the by-election is a change of heart by the people of Peterborough wanting to leave the EU. It is a pity one of the main parties (as was) has not adopted Brexit’s stance. Both supported the referendum and have largely renaged on the result. Some of the voting probably reflects the attack on our democracy by these parties. In a few months we should be facing a new future. If a fraction of the effort expended on this issue is diverted into making it a success then I feel that future is assured.

The sheer complexity of Brexit is shown in the microcosm of the answers here. The assertion that people knew what they were voting for requires a degree of humility because, quite simply, it’s impossible to know what we were voting for.

With the regards to the immigration question, immigration has been and continues to be a net benefit to this country, a criticism was raised earlier about jobs and low wages, there’s an arguable point being made by the Tories – employment is at a record high, well considering the tax book is down, those jobs are either constructed from zero hours contracts, low quality positions or people being shunted off “job seekers” allowance.

Similarly, immigration has been criticised with regards to the NHS, it’d be great if all the vacant roles could be filled by trained British people, but this is a naive concept, the significant vacancies in the NHS reply on European nurses and doctors, simple as that, with the qualifications and education required for nurse and doctors, we’re not going to fill this gap quickly.

So, yes, Brexit is bloody infuriating, we Remainers’ have bitten our tongues for 3 years but now is the time to say, we could have achieved so much more and spent the estimated £66bn wasted on Brexit on so much more.

Chris

10th June, 2019 at 10:01 am

Uncontrolled immigration is bad. However the levels of immigration into this country are not ‘the problem’, they are necessary because of other problems in the country. Immigration is also not a problem of the EU. Migration into the UK from outside the EU has also been higher than from within the EU. That is a failure of British governments, not of the EU. Severely cutting immigration into the UK will create far more problems than it solves, unless the issues that are driving the immigration are addressed.
The uncomfortable truth is that we do not have too many foreigners in the UK, we have too many old people, and our society can no longer cope with them.
So much of the UK can no longer cope with the modern world, small changes will not help, reverting to a previous time is simply not possible, no longer how desperately some people may wish for it to happen.
The country needs big thinking, it needs different thinking. The party political system no longer works, the Brexit Party as a vanity project for Nigel Farage is going to solve nothing. Democracy only works with a well informed electorate, unfortunately under the current system there is no incentive to those who are in a position to inform to do so.
Newspaper headlines are misleading, politicians are misleading, all deliberately so. There is so much noise that it is no longer possible to identify what is real and what isn’t. As Aaron Banks said after the referendum, the truth isn’t important, emotion is.
Reality has no impact on how people think, on how they vote, only perception, and those two things have been shown time and time again to be miles apart.

Philip Allso

10th June, 2019 at 12:39 pm

@Chris… I wasn’t going to add any more to this debate but your contribution introduced some interesting new aspects. Selective immigration will always be desirable. Those with skills are needed everywhere and from any source. It is lamentable that nurses now need to qualify through the university system (ie business) with all the attendent costs and debts. This has inevitably discouraged many from entering the service. Likewise many skilled jobs which were educated through apprenticeships and technical collages have gone the same way. The promises of the benefits from the modern University? system are proving somewhat hollow. This has left gaps in our social systems which are filled from elsewhere (I wonder how their education was financed?) We, like most of Europe, have an ageing population. This has been a situation that was obvious after the population explosion following World War Two. Little was done politically to address this inevitability. Raising the pension age for women is a shameful action for those already working. The overall situation will be a decreasing one over the next decade. All this said, the vast majority of immigrants are unskilled and work in unskilled jobs. One of the unforseen consequences of freedom of movement in EU regulations was the incentive for those in lower performing countries to go to the higher performing countries in large numbers. This has occurred in most of the core European countries. What impact does this have? Should we have the responsibility to re- educate them and give entry to our social services? Other than the cheap labour much loved by business, car washes, agriculture, hospitality businesses, care homes and other like occupations where is the real benefit for the economy? The figures are unsustainable. It will lead to unsustainable social services costs. Those leaving these shores are largely well educated and self financed If they intend to work or retire abroad. If those in power could not see the consequences of the baby boom of the 1940/50s they will only awaken to this boom when it is too late. I most certainly do not hanker for some notional past (mine was less than ideal anyway) but learn from that experience and stop making the same mistakes.