Ryan, fiance to the powerlifter from the recent success story, just released a self-titled Primal kids EP by The Cave Kids. Check it out on Amazon or iTunes. It’s really good, and both kids and parents will dig it. “Just Like Mom and Dad” is my favorite so far.

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Imagine you’re George Clooney. Take a moment to admire your grooming and wit. Okay, now imagine someone walks up to you and asks, “What’s your name?” You say, “I’m George Clooney.” Or maybe you say, “I’m the Clooninator!” You don’t say “I’m George of George Clooney Sells Movies Blog” and you certainly don’t say, “I’m Clooney Weight Loss Plan”. So while spam is technically meat, it ain’t anywhere near Primal. Please nickname yourself something your friends would call you.

So Marilyn Monroe combined an ‘ice cream habit’ with her primalesque diet? What news!!

Every article about “models” includes their “little indulgence.”. “oh, look, I only eat meat and carrots and eggs, but I’m still human, I eat ice cream.” the same pattern can be seen in beauty magazines today (or, at least until I stopped reading them a few years ago.)

I do have to say, the kevlar socks don’t seem nearly as ugly as the vibrams. If they come out with plain black ones and colorful ones, I might pick some up.

Yep, and that’s even true about athletes. One of my “heros” is Dara Torres. I annoyed the whole household screaming in support for her during the 2008 Olympics. She is one heck of a female physical specimen. Talk about abs! Whew!

But, Dara is not my idea for a nutritional role model. She was bulimic during her first two Olympics. So, her philosophy now is to indulge her cravings.

“Women’s Health” magazine interview with Dara:

“More often I wonder what other people think about when they see me in an airport or wherever, scarfing down a cheeseburger and some fries. I can just imagine what bulimic women are thinking about me, because that’s what I used to think about other women: How can she do that? She’s so lucky she can eat that and not gain weight. Nowadays, if I have any cravings, I just go ahead and eat. I don’t deprive myself.”

Some of her favorite indulgences:

1. Root beer float “It has to be made with IBC root beer and Breyers vanilla ice cream.”

2. Vanilla cream cookies “They’re so good I don’t even bother taking bites. I just put the whole cookie in my mouth.”

4. Lime Tostitos “They have a kick to them. I love to munch on them before dinner.”

5. Fresh-squeezed lemonade “I keep it in my water bottle.”

Or, how about the Dara Torres interview with “Glamour “magazine in the Shape Up blog:

SU: What’s the one guilty pleasure you can’t live without?

DT: What if you have more than one? (Laughs.) Seriously, I think I definitely have more than one. Um, rice krispies treats.

SU: Do you make them or do you buy them?

DT: I make them. The good thing about the way I make them is I don’t make them with butter: what I do is I take a pan and I spray it with zero-calorie PAM, and then throw the marshmallows in there, and then microwave it and they melt. And then you just pour your rice krispies in and you have rice krispie treats! And the thing is that I make it myself because than I can dictate the ratio between rice krispies and marshmallows. The ratio is probably like 70 percent marshamallows and 30 percent rice krispies. So they’re really gooey and chewey. The only thing I recommend is spray the wooden spoon or spatula with PAM because it ends up sticking a lot and it’s hard to do and then when you pour it in to the pan to sit in the refrigerator, spray [the spatula] and pat it down to mold [the rice krispies] into the pan. It’s good because you’re not using all those sticks of butter.

Well that makes 2 of us that are fans of hers! Being an “older” lady myself, I was always interested in her performance/progress and just general outcome. If you were wondering what that ethereal scream you heard in the background was – it was probably me yelling for her success as well!

However, I wasn’t aware of the interview in “Women’s Health” magazine and her comments on the types of foods she eats or prefers to eat. I agree – it’s certainly not the best role model – primal or otherwise. Well, we are who we are, and I guess if we accept someone, we accept them with all their “bumps”. At least she was honest and didn’t come up with some half-assed diet/lifestyle plan just to sound “healthy.”

That said, I’d hate to see her in about 5 years based on her food preferences. She can’t swim herself into health forever and likewise, it’s MVHO that exercise can’t overcome a bad diet forever. I seriously wonder if the interview in question was just a bunch of comments taken out of context – I mean, certainly the press would never consider doing something like that, would they?

PrimalGrandma wrote on February 19th, 2012

What I shared was from two interviews – one from Women’s Health and one from Glamor – the Shape Up blog. I’d suggest that you read both interviews in their entirety and see what you think about context.

Never ceases to amaze me how the media distorts things. That said, these direct quotes are sorta hard to dismiss out of hand. And, she does seem to feel that exercise counters any dietary mishaps.

From BeautyTipToday:

“It’s OK to have bites of food that probably aren’t the best for you because that way you won’t deprive yourself and then want more of that food. I eat what I want, when I want, but I exercise so I can do that.”

“This Olympic medal winner trains very hard. Gearing up for the summer games, Dara had a head coach, sprint coach, strength coach, two stretchers, two masseuses, a chiropracter, and a nanny for her daughter, all at a cost of $100,000 a year. And we can see by the results and her big silver victory, that the grueling and challenging work has paid off.”

“I spend two hours in the pool, five days a week, and I weight train four days a week—two days of lower-body and core and the other two days upper-body and core. I also do resistive stretching three days a week.”

I agree with you that exercise has its limits and will not correct dietary deficiency forever. She probably has great genes so she may get away with it for awhile longer than other people might.

Honestly, I was not really surprised to learn that she enjoyed her “indulgences” – but I was a bit disappointed since she has become a hero for so many, especially older women like us.

I read in another article that she was unable to train (at that time) due to a knee injury. I thought, honey, that’s a slippery slope. Lots of former icons of fitness have slid down that slope. What’s going to happen to her sugar cravings when she can’t maintain the high level of exercise that she has in the past? (Rhetorical)

Sigh.

rarebird wrote on February 19th, 2012

That NY Times article is as terrible as I expected it to be. I never cease to be amazed by the overwhelming fear people have towards raw meat.

Maybe you would be less amazed if you saw first hand what can happen from parasites and diseases in raw meat. Eating raw means ~really~ knowing your sources. IMO, the reason that so many modernized people are so causal about raw meat is similar to why they are so casual about small pox, diphtheria, polio, and other diseases that most people in developed countries have little or no actual experience with. Then, there’s denial – it will never happen to me, until it does. Shame more people don’t watch “House, MD.”

I have seen and experienced, thanks.
You honestly think people are casual about raw meat? It’s hard enough to find someone who isn’t squeamish about blood, let alone someone who doesn’t think I’m crazy for not washing my hands a dozen times when preparing or cooking meat from animals I actually watched growing up.

Mark was pointing out that raw food diets were “really catching on”. The article states there is a “burgeoning raw-pet-food market” that “It’s become hip.”

So, its about those people – as well as those who eat a raw meet diet themselves – that I am making that statement. I feel that they are being “casual” if they don’t carefully assess both risks and benefits, and in my experience they tend not to do so.

In your case, you may know the meat animals well but do you actually know their biological risk status? Do you have them evaluated for microbes?

I have seen plenty of examples (since the 1960’s) of small farm farmers – in particular – who assume that because they raise the animals themselves that the meat and milk are safe. I have seen some of these same farms shut down due to hepatitis and other common hygiene and health issues. I learned a few lessons in animal husbandry myself the hard way. I hope that you don’t have similar experiences yourself.

rarebird wrote on February 19th, 2012

House MD. is based off strange medical cases reported in a newspaper column. Not exactly a meaningful source or statistically significant for medical advice 😉

I don’t know. I’m currently living in what you would call a “developing” country. Raw meat (red) and raw liver is a frequent part of the diet, and is deeply rooted in traditional cuisine.

I have never heard of problems associated with that from either friends or doctors, nor had any problems myself. And trust me, people eat raw meat here with great frequency. But then, when we eat raw meat, we’re buy it freshly butchered from the local butcher shop, and prepare it carefully.

Besides, raw food is pretty much common in many parts of the world. Sushi, pate, raw liver, and raw kibbeh here, etc. Funnily enough, the only stories I’ve heard of regarding catching something from food was with people who ate completely cooked food at some not so great restaurant, or ate something from a factory produced box.

I never said that “House, MD.” was a source for medical advice. What I meant to imply was that “House, MD.” might open eyes for people who have little or no awareness of risk factors associated with raw food (among other things).

I tend to agree that life is generally risky. All anyone can do is their best. My issue is with people not really doing their best. And, even when we do, stuff still happens. So, we need to at least make the effort, IMO.

I don’t know what country you are located in, but obviously you do have access to a computer. If you were interested in the statistics on this topic, you could check the World Health Organization (WHO) – assuming that your country was a member.

Please don’t get me wrong, I am not opposed to raw meat in general. On the contrary, I am in favor of ~truly~ traditional diets (including the cultural contexts that make them healthy). I have eaten raw meat and have fed raw meat to my family and to my pets – although not as a main stay diet.

What I am opposed to is casualness – and “fad following” about raw meat – and about modernized/Westernized versions of traditional diets which render them unhealthy. Soy being a perfect example. Context, context, context.

Here in the US, we “joke” about “Montezuma’s Revenge” – the “traveler’s trots” – aka the severe diarrhea that can happen when US tourists eat or drink local foods when out of the county, like in Mexico. The advice is to drink safely bottled water and to eat only cooked foods. Not fool proof but does reduce incidence levels.

Indigenous people tend to develop natural resistance to the pathogens in their environments that newcomer’s are not protected from. It works the other way around, too. Think about the small pox epidemic that wiped out vast numbers of North American indigenous peoples. Small pox was introduced by European settlers and the Native Americans had NO immunity to it.

Context.

rarebird wrote on February 19th, 2012

Imo the first step towards acceptance is bathing in a tub full of raw cuts of meat, once you are used to having it against your skin and surrounding you, then you will be much more accepting of eating it.

Thanks for the suggestion. Do you mean like the shoes used in water aerobics? How well does a shoe with a “thin” rubber sole hold up on various terrains? Would it protect against issues like stone bruises?

Not sure about water aerobics – the ones I mean are mostly used by rafters and kayakers. Like neoprene slippers with rubber soles. Like most ‘barefoot shoe’ options, they’re more protection than bare feet but you do have to watch your footing. They’re a lot cheaper than VFFs and no-one looks at you funny for wearing them…

Sharyn wrote on February 19th, 2012

Thanks for the explanation, Sharyn. That might be a good option for me also in the sense that I had been thinking about taking up kayaking now that I’ve retired in the Great Lakes area. Used to canoe when I was young – and usually did it barefoot or in mocs. Would have liked a non-slip waterproof “barefoot” shoe like that I bet.

rarebird wrote on February 20th, 2012

I love the logic in the raw diet article:

“Dr. Ann Hohenhaus, a spokeswoman for the Animal Medical Center in Manhattan, said that she was not inclined to recommend a raw-food diet for her patients…“Dogs have been domesticated and living with us for, some of them, centuries. A raw food diet is not necessarily going to agree with these animals whom we’ve imposed our lifestyles on.”

Humans have been eating processed, nutritionally devoid junk for, some of them, centuries. A real food diet is not necessarily going to agree with these humans whom we’ve imposed our junk food on.

Also, dogs have been domesticate for “centuries”? LOL. Try “since well before the invention of agriculture, several tens of thousands of years.” During 99% of which time, of course, they would have lived on scraps of human food (probably mostly meat and bones) and whatever they could find or catch around camp (mostly small animals, eggs, etc.). It’s not like the original dog-wolves walked into human encampments and started eating kibble, for dog’s sake.

Most vets are actually pretty ignorant of the domestication of dogs and their evolutionary history. My sister works for a vet clinic with several vets, none of whom advocate a raw food diet for animals, despite the fact that several of the office workers, including my sister have had nothing but success since switching their dogs to raw foods. “Don’t you know,” they say “you’re dog is going to get tapeworm.” Cause tapeworm is so much worse than a fat, sick, tumor ridden dog with no energy, right?

I don’t know if ketogenic diets are as useful for dogs as they are for humans – but maybe. And, maybe your parents (and the vet) will be open to considering this approach, even if not to using a raw food diet.

There is literature on the use of ketogenic diet not only to manage seizures but to prevent them in humans. The Mayo Clinic used this approach.

There are low glycemic kibble diets available for dogs, including one (Orijen – my favorite) that (1) has been tested and awarded the “Low Glycemic” award by a certified research institute – Glycemic Research Institute (GRI) and (2) is “biologically appropriate” and conforms to basic primal principles.

You could also check the GRI for a list of the hundreds of pet foods that they have evaluated world wide.

You and your precious pup are more than welcome to any help that I can offer :-). Seriously. All you have to do is say the word and I’ll see what I can find on the subject, if you feel that you need support in presenting this option to your parents and your vet.

I have a long term established collaborative research partnership with a vet – albeit more or less dormant lately. We often ventured into the esoteric and arcane areas of the literature and the lab in search of answers outside the conventional realm.

And, she supports both a high meat diet and a raw diet – given a few caveats. In fact, she just suggested that I read “Naked Calories”, a book on micronutrients that I noticed is endorsed by Mark.

As I mentioned below, cats and dogs suffer from diabetes just as humans do, although with a few species specific differences. The underlying metabolic pathways involving diabetic ketoacidosis appear to be similar across species. So, my hunch is that nutritional ketosis might offer similar metabolic advantages to dogs as it does to humans.

But, a strict ketogenic diet is best supervised medically – especially if its being used to treat a medical issue. Ideally, you’d want your vet on board to monitor things – even if s/he thought you were a bit odd.

Anyway, you might also want to consider giving him the meds as a stop gap measure until you can get him on the diet. Seizures can cause permanent brain damage or death. If you safely transition him over to the diet you can eliminate the meds and see how he does then.

Again, best wishes to you both.

rarebird wrote on February 20th, 2012

Having had the discussion about raw diets for dogs (and cats) with several vets – as well as doing a bit of inquiry myself – both feeding raw and reading the literature – I have a different take on what the quoted vet is saying.

One issue is about dietary enzymes – which are in flux based on what the animal is accustomed to eating. Anyone who has a dog who has changed brands of kibble – let alone changed the feeding method radically from kibble to raw – knows that a gradual transition is recommended.

If that advice is ignored, the result is often GI upset to some degree – can range from common vomiting and diarrhea to severe dehydration to triggered bloody colitis that is hard to heal.

And, that’s just one “adaptation” issue. The vet is also likely referring to modern breeds not just the generic “dog”. There are many breed specific issues that pertain to metabolism. Some breed are susceptible to pancreatitis, for one example – so saturated fats would be contraindicated. Other breeds are susceptible to uroliths, so mineral content and balance are extra important considerations – for another example.

I suspect, and have had confirmed by a couple of vets, that part of the real reasons that vets don’t encourage raw feeding is because so few people will either (1) lay out serious cash for a carefully developed and safe marketed raw diet or (2) do their own research and develop the equivalent at home. And, btw, If you think that all marketed raw food diets are equally safe, look again. They range in quality and cost just as any marketed pet food does.

“Cause tapeworm is so much worse than a fat, sick, tumor ridden dog with no energy, right?”

Could be, Fritzy. And, don’t overlook the fact that humans can catch tape worm from their pets, too.

From the “Stop the Insanity: Top 10 Craziest Diet Fads” here at MDA:

“Eat, eat, eat and always stay thin – or so claims a promotional poster for The Tapeworm Diet. Under the plan, all you had to do is simply swallow a worm-laced pill and watch as the worm dined off your food. Besides the obvious ick factor associated with eating a worm, (not to mention the bloating, nausea, and diarrhea which came with their presence), there was a very real danger that the worms could lay eggs in other tissues, such as the nervous system, which could cause seizures, dementia and meningitis. Thankfully, this terrible diet has died out… or has it? Although the worm in question – the taenia saginata cysticercus – cannot be legally purchased or transported in the United States, there are several internet sites available to teach you how to become infected with the worms. And believe us, it’s as gross as it sounds!”

“and about 28 percent (of doctors surveyed) said they had ‘intentionally or unintentionally revealed to an unauthorized person health information about one of [their] patients.'”
My friend had a stroke last week and it seems that 100% of the staff at this hospital is guilty of this.
Also “In addition, about 35 percent of doctors did not agree with the statement that physicians should “disclose financial relationships with drug and device companies to heir patients.”
How could this be? It seems so greedy and evil but I see this is so true. (Get new doctors people!)

Those in Europe may want to try Fairtrade Vivo Barefoot shoes from Terra Plana. They have a thin sole of only 3 mm and Terra Plana has casual shoes as well as sport shoes. Especially the former are a good alternative to Vibrams.

They’re selling terra plana shoes in the US now too. I’ve had a pair, and although I enjoyed them while they lasted, they fell apart pretty quickly (about 6 months) and were reallyyy expensive. Not sure how highly I’d recommend them.

Put my dogs on a raw diet and haven’t looked back. My 13 year old acts like a puppy but her loss of hearing brings me back to reality.

I’m not sure the ketogenic state applies to dogs. Dogs are carnivores and never needed carbs as part of their diet. Never. We are omnivores and therefore need carbs. There’s a big difference between omnivores and carnivores in my mind.

I’m not sure that the ketogenic state would apply either at least in the same sense that it does for humans. But, what I was thinking was this:

While dogs are a member of the Order Carnivora, they are NOT obligate carnivores. They are facultative carnivores who do consume food other than meat. There are several classifications of carnivore beyond these two, based on the percentage of meat in the diet. To my mind, the biggest difference is between an obligate carnivore and all other carnivores and omnivores, btw.

Dogs do have the requisite enzymes to digest starch in the pancreas and they do metabolize starch. However, the typical conventional canine diet has way too many starch based carbs in it for optimal canine health. That is why I feed all my dogs (and cats) an 80/20/0 formula – 80% meat no grains or plant oils -along with raw and other home made adjunctive foods – still no grains or plant oils.

Anyway, I was thinking that ~maybe~ the factors that exist regarding humans with seizures – who benefit from restricted carbs -might be applicable to removing excess carbs from a dog’s diet.

After all, if humans – who ARE omnivores – suffer from excess carbs- which is manifested as seizures in some cases – how much potentially more likely would it be that a carnivore would suffer similarly from excess carbs?

On further thought – following a good night’s sleep – I recalled that both dogs and cats develop diabetes – albeit with a different distribution for type. In fact diabetes is on the rise in both cats – who are more likely to develop Type II.

So, I did a little digging around to see if diabetic ketoacidosis was metabolically similar in cats, dogs, and humans – and it is. That fact would suggest to me that nutritional ketosis aka the ketogenic diet would be a possible therapeutic approach for both cats and dogs.

In fact, why wouldn’t the incidence of diabetes in cats and dogs be as indicting for excess carbs as it is for humans? Those of us who object to grains and other starches in our pets’ diet have just one more reason here to raise these objections with our vets.

Thank you for sharing this info. I am always on the lookout for ways to improve my pet’s diet.

“NZ” caught my eye because I know how high quality their meats can be and how stringent the quality control – especially for export. A visit to the K9 Naturals website confirmed these aspects for me.

However, the visit also raised a few questions and concerns. First of all, their approach to raw feeding is quite different than my experience with it as adjunctive. They seem to contradict a few tried and true methods for feeding dogs, including using raw plant and animal foods that are generally considered toxic or anti-nutrient for dogs.

They make a few statements that sound like they are based on science but there is no basis in science at this time – so its really more speculation. Other statements contradict the nutritional science that we do have.

Then, despite the high level quality control, they also make multiple warnings about bacterial contamination and the potential danger to humans.

All that said, the bottom line is how an animal actually does on a food – and it sounds like your dog is doing well. How long has he been on this diet?

If you want to know more specifically what my concerns and questions are – or if you have more specific information about this food, I’d be happy to continue to discuss things with you. If not, that’s fine, too.

You were addressing Kiwilauren, but let me answer it too. My dogs have been on the raw diet for a few months now and I have seen a positive change in them since I got them off kibble. I was feeding them Orijen, so it was the super premium kibble.

My 13 year old Dalmatian (she does not suffer from hyperuricosuria) has made a huge turn around in her health. She’s like a puppy with bad hearing. My vet said, “She looks and feels like a 7 year old” during her annual check up. She also had terrible teeth. Since I put her on essentially Prey Model Raw, her teeth look so much better.

My 3 year old Border Collie has also improved but in more subtle ways.

Thanks, Ash. If there’s a better kibble than Orijen, I can’t find it. So, if I had a dog who wasn’t doing well on Orijen I’d consider raw feeding 100%, too. So fortunate that your Dalmatian isn’t uric prone.

How does what you do differ from the Prey Model Raw? Did you follow the directions for a total switch rather than a gradual switch from kibble?

I don’t find that adding adjunctive raw to Orijen is a problem. But, I’m only feeding a small amount of raw. I travel with three of my dogs – have a total of six dogs, four cats – two households 1200 miles apart. So, for us kibble with adjunctive raw seems to work best at this time. But, I am always keeping my eyes open.

Not all raw food companies have the same stance on this issue of needing to either feed raw or kibble but not both at the same time. Some of them support adjunct feeding. So, I wonder how important that making an abrupt switch really is – as well as if it might explain why some dogs do poorly during the early weeks of raw feeding.

What do you think?

rarebird wrote on February 20th, 2012

Didn’t see a reply link under your post below. My Dalmatian gets low purine meats. That is what causes uric crystal build ups. I have a female, so they are less prone in general. I also feed her more BARF based than PMR and that also helps. My Border Collie is on complete PMR – Meat (80%), bones (10%) and organs (10%).

You shouldn’t have a problem feeding Orijen and raw. I used to do that – Orijen for one meal, and raw for their second. I never fed them both in the same meal though. Quick searches told me that since they aren’t broken down by the digestive system the same, it’s better to keep them separate. From there, it was a just a full and easy switch over to raw food. I just dropped the Orijen because they were already used to raw food.

Ash wrote on February 21st, 2012

Thanks again, Ash. That’s how I feed now – Orijen for some meals and raw some meals – its just that most meals are Orijen at this time. I do that so if I ever want/need to feed only one or the other exclusively they have the enzymes and microbes already established for proper digestion. When we’re on the road they eat kibble only. Its a convenience/food safety issue for me but they seem to do best on a small amount of kibble while traveling.

Glad that you’ve learned how to successfully control for uric issues. I find that dealing with struvite or calcium oxalate can be a bit tricky. I tend to prefer the BARF approach in general, but again its whatever works best for the individual animal’s needs.

Hey MDA’s community. I am not very into advertising what I write, because it is just a crappy blog in broken english. But there is this one post that was inspired by MDA and the guy at Free the Animal. So if you have a few moments to spare from your precious time and would like to read, here it is: http://myglassceiling.wordpress.com/2012/02/10/animal/

Very interesting about Marilyn. It does seem she ate kind of primal most of the time with an ice cream indulgence. Seems to have worked well, she had a beautiful naturally curvaceous but slender figure without any surgical enhancement unlike many actresses today. People write about how she was a size 16 or whatever, but she was smaller than the average American woman today and sizes were different back then. Sizes were even smaller it seems back in the early 80s when i was in high school.

On the article about spinning being like a heart attack…
I spin once a week for about 45 minutes but it is not going ‘hard’ for most of that time. We do some sprinting intervals and the rest of the class i pedal at a comfortable pace. That is ok isn’t it?

I have some questions about that article too….
I do 45 mins of spinning 3x/week and while its fairly strenuous, it’s way easier for me than let’s say running, for which after about 20 mins i am passed out on the floor lol

Only clicked through to read the news article and not the original paper, but i’d like to know what peoples’ baseline level of cardiovascular fitness was before being tested (they just state they were ‘healthy’ individuals). Additionally, only 2 out of 10 participants had enzyme levels that exceeded the threshold used to test for evidence of a heart attack.

i might go and check out the whole article because i feel like there are could be a lot of wrongful [negative] implications made here

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