Step 2) stand at the base and look for the nearest secluded spot, sheltered from the gaze of folks climbing above

Step 3) walk 30m to that secluded spot and behold the mighty work of the pyramid builders

A good one is the right hand end of the Organ Pipes, there's a little mossy buttress down low and right with no routes on it.......fair bit of poo round that corner

Given how many bloody people were at araps over easter though, I reckon the problem is fairly small. I tear strips off anyone taking a dump at the crag, and reckon everyone else should hassle 'em too. Targeting the 2% of climbers who are habitual shit pilers is the best way to tackle the issue!

What is it with the coprophobia? Every other animal shits in the outdoors, why shouldn't the human animal? But it's not so hard to stay away from watercourses, dig a little hole and bury the waste after, and forgo the toilet paper. If you do have to use the latter and there is no fire risk, then burn it. (Or does that count as one of Wendy's illegal camp fires?)

It's not the shitting outside I have an issue with, it's the leaving it there on display, especially with the white paper flapping on the top of it. It's not hard to dig a hole with a stick or whatever and sort things out. As for burning the paper, I don't think that sounds like a good idea.

On 14/06/2011 tnd wrote:>Every other animal shits in the outdoors,>why shouldn't the human animal?

I'm not against shitting in the outdoors, but there's a time and a place. I would suggest that when you have 2000 people camped together for the easter week, then shitting in the bush within a couple of hundred meters of the campground is fairly poor form. If everyone in the pines over the 10 day easter period took 1 dump/day at the crag, that would be about 20 000 dirty grogans within a couple of sq km..........not gold!

I don't get what it is around here with all the hassling of people who are trying to stand up for the environment and the diverse range of people in the world. Somehow this all get bagged out as "environmental do gooders" and "politically correct". Is this the new version of tall poppy syndrome?

Of course the park is looking better than ever. I would suggest that this is the result of increased regulation and the activity of "environmental do-gooders". Sheep are not allowed to be grazed up to the cliff line. You can't get your car up do the cliff to belay from it. You can't drive into the Pines. Paths have been consolidated, stabilised, fences built, trees planted, weeds removed, so on so forth. Without regulation and "do-gooders", you might find Arapiles still looking like it did 30 years ago.

I am giving the committee the benefit of the doubt that they spent their 6 months in deliberation considering the state of the park and observing the collection of firewood, considering the available options to address the problem, strategies that have been tried, strategies that could be tried, how feasibile any of them are - this is what committees do. Maybe I am being generous. Maybe they have a vicious anti non local climbers agenda and are out to ruin everyone's fun. But they are not hard to get hold of if you want to get the details of their side of the story. I expect that Lou hasn't responded because she has run away to remote nothern australia, but she is easy to get hold of if she is around. Her email is on her account. Her phone number is in the phone book. You could call Pete, the head ranger. Simey could walk down the road and find either of them.

And there are a bunch of climbers with no idea how to shît in the bush out there. And it's this incapacity that is my problem. The craps on the belay ledge of Introductory or those in the middle of the path from the bluffs to the summit did at least provide me with the opportunity to discuss this with the students I was taking out. There are little icons around the base of Watchtower, Left side, King Rat. And a walk up the right side of the Pines after Easter found many of the paper butterflies that suggest some women had a wipe and throw experience. And I'm refraining from telling the inappropriate crap story I've heard about Jeremy, although it has struck me as kind of ironic.

Maybe these keen sign makers can make one explaining how to shît in the bush and giving directions back to the toilet for those incapable of digging a hole and distribute them liberally around the mount.

What amazes me in this discussion is everyone carrying on about increasing regulation, yet suggesting solutions that involve more regulation. Is not the simplest, least regulation solution for climbers to be responsible for themselves and each other? Then there's no need for any change to regulation at all. All people need to do is demonstrate that this is happening. I'm hardly the sort of person about to advocate random regulation.

And Hero, it's ok, I'm getting plenty of climbing in. It's just that I'm getting so nailed that I'm taking more rest days then i've ever had on a climbing trip before! And there's internet in the campground. I did 9 pitches between 20 and 25 yesterday. I hurt all over. I'd almost take another rest day today, but I feel really pathetic on a 1 day on 1 day off schedule!

On 14/06/2011 ajfclark wrote:>On 14/06/2011 Wendy wrote:>>Without regulation and "do-gooders", you might find Arapiles still looking>like it did 30 years ago.>>Something like this:>>On 12/05/2010 kieranl wrote:>>This image shows the vegetation below the right Watchtower face in 1977.>>>>

On 14/06/2011 Wendy wrote:>Something I didnt bother to read
Are you still at the Red? Have you tried a sweet potato and roast pork pizza - possibly the best pizza ever?
Did you get on Way Up Yonder? I fell off just before the anchor four times! I was sooooo shitty. I thought Ro Shampo, nearby, was pretty overated...and overgraded.
Also Im leaving for Squamish today so I may or may not still be there by the time you arrive

Ummmm, would that photo have been taken 4 years after the fire which totally burnt the park out? I appreciate the environmental work done by local climbers, but claiming credit for natural regrowth after a huge fire is a little bit cheeky.

On 14/06/2011 Wendy wrote:>I don't get what it is around here with all the hassling of people who>are trying to stand up for the environment and the diverse range of people>in the world. Somehow this all get bagged out as "environmental do gooders">and "politically correct". Is this the new version of tall poppy syndrome?>
Nah, but you have to find a balance somehow. The best environmental outcome for the mount would be to ban climbing..............since no one on this site seems to support that idea, we are left to find a compromise between whats good for the environment and whats good for climbers.

Wendy, you seem to lean rather far towards the 'environmental concern' end of the spectrum, but that doesn't mean everyone to your right is a self-obsessed vandal...........besides, I didn't hear any complaints while I was destroying the vegetation on Karma Sutra, prior to your ascent ;)

In 2003, just prior to the formation of the Canberra Climber's Association, there wasn't a single tree standing within view of Booroomba. Now, thanks to 7 years of hard work by the CCA, the bush has regenerated marvelously and will continue to grow into mature eucalypt forest over the next 50yrs..............