This is a re-recording of my version from 2007. I have always loved this endearing suite by Gabriel Grovlez, a compoaser about whom I could find little information and no image at all. It is clear that Grovlez was under the spell of Debussy, and I'm pretty sure he must have known that composer's Children's Corner, on which some of these items seem to be modeled. Nonetheless I do not find this derivative music. I hope I do my bit in making this unknown music more popular.

If anybody knows of more info about Grovlez, I'd love to know. A photo would be more than welcome.

I'm not sure what I thought of your first version of this set. Did I like it? I can't remember. Anyway, I like no. 2 a lot. Probably my favorite of the set. No. 3 has some neat harmonies. No. 4 - let the hunt begin, for sure. No. 5 - some fast donkeys... No. 6 is nice - like the trickling notes. No. 7 - like that nice, waltzing beat. Also, I don't know what's happening, but I hear a swishy sound throughout every file here. It's in the background, but pretty prominent, like the piano sound is not that clear. There is that constant swish going on.... Sorry, I can't explain it well....

_________________"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

Until hearing these pieces, I was not familiar with Grovlez at all. I listened to all of them. They are all contrasting and colorful in each piece's own way and some tell some stories while others draw some impressions. I believe that you play them all very well, plus you have an affinity to this music which reflects in the performance.

I saw Monica's comments on the ambient noise. I have tinnitus in both ears (probably inevitable after playing piano for 58 years so far), so I cannot detect it at all. Maybe others can be more helpful with that.

David

_________________"Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities." David April

Thanks Monica and David. I sure hope my love for this unassuming music shines through.I think what you hear is the releasing of the pedal which is a bit noisy since the spring was taken out. I meant to have the tuner look into it when he was here this week but I forgot

No, I don't think it is a pedal noise. Remember how we used to listen to albums on vinyl - when the needle gets to the end of the album, you hear this swishing sound? That's sort of what I hear in your recordings. I hear it when you are playing and when you are not. Maybe was there a machine running - like a dishwasher or washing machine nearby? Or a clock? Well, don't worry about it...I'm using my good earphones right now, and I probably wouldn't hear so much background noise on my cheaper ones.

_________________"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

Chris, these are very fine works in their style (definite Debussy influence). You bring out their wonderful character very effectively. Oh there's a quick run here and there that could be played more evenly, but nothing that should require another effort at recording. I think your performing this music must be making JS turn in his grave! Anyway, I'm sure you've heard what they found when they exhumed Beethoven's grave: He was furiously erasing his many scores. "What are you doing master?" He answered, "Decomposing." <flam, crash cymbal>

Edit: Oh ya, one more thing: I don't appreciate what Monica's talking about, but I just listen over my Altec Lansing integrated laptop speakers. These are home recordings after all.

_________________Eddy M. del Rio, MD"A smattering will not do. They must know all the keys, major and minor, and they must literally 'know them backwards.'" - Josef Lhevinne

Edit: Oh ya, one more thing: I don't appreciate what Monica's talking about, but I just listen over my Altec Lansing integrated laptop speakers. These are home recordings after all.

Well, of course they are home recordings! But are you saying that I'm imagining that sound? I can't help if I hear things that others don't. And anyway, it is absolutely possible to get a clean and clear sound in home recordings if you make sure every machine or furnace/air conditioner is off. Now, trying to control the birds and chipmunks is another story...

_________________"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

Edit: Oh ya, one more thing: I don't appreciate what Monica's talking about, but I just listen over my Altec Lansing integrated laptop speakers. These are home recordings after all.

Well, of course they are home recordings! But are you saying that I'm imagining that sound? I can't help if I hear things that others don't. And anyway, it is absolutely possible to get a clean and clear sound in home recordings if you make sure every machine or furnace/air conditioner is off. Now, trying to control the birds and chipmunks is another story...

Monica, have you considered tinnitus? I really meant that I don't hear it, (listening the way I do). <Softball pitched with a nice and slow lob>

_________________Eddy M. del Rio, MD"A smattering will not do. They must know all the keys, major and minor, and they must literally 'know them backwards.'" - Josef Lhevinne

Monica, have you considered tinnitus? I really meant that I don't hear it, (listening the way I do). <Softball pitched with a nice and slow lob>

That's okay, Eddy, you've made me consider that maybe I shouldn't comment on EVERYTHING. I say what I hear in members' recordings in case they don't know there is some interference in the sound, and then they can fix things for future recordings. But maybe I am more annoying than helpful. Shut-up time for me!

And here is the softball tossed back to you....( except I don't really get this softball thing.... )

_________________"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

But did you know that Grovlez once worked on Granados' opera? There, I've steered things back on topic....

That's a bit of info I have not seen anywhere on the web. I find links between composers always intriguing. Anything else you may know about him would be welcome (I've seen that The Wikipedia article on Grovlez links to the bio on our page, so that had better be complete).I just wish I could find an image anywhere.

I am interested in links between composers too. In this case, I'm afraid I can't remember how I knew that about Granados and Grovlez. Just now I looked around the Internet for some info and only found what is shown in the attachment. I have a couple Granados books on my bookshelf - maybe I saw that information there but it'll take some time to find it. Will let you know if I do. Also, it is true; there does not seem to be any photos of Grovlez anywhere. Strange....

(back ON topic )

_________________"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

There are a slew of unknown composers who don't offer anything new, just regurgitate the music of their masters. There are also composers who are a musical mutt of several styles and inspirations. Sometimes, one finds a diamond in the rough, but those are rare. For me, Grovlez doesn't shine in terms of originality.

I think you and Monica are right about the composers afiliations - There are parts to the music that sounds like Debussy, as you say. But, there are parts that sound unmistakably Granados - a mini Goyescas... Perhaps he's trying to be Spanish Debussy?... You bring out more than what's already there. Nonetheless, very well played!

Here is a photo of Gabriel Grovlez.

_________________"Nobility of spirit has more to do with simplicity than ostentation, wisdom rather than wealth, commitment rather than ambition." ~Riccardo Muti

Last edited by 88man on Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

The caption I was referring to was on the web site below the picture. I didn't pay attention to the writing on the picture until I had uploaded and posted it. The website in question has numerous pictures of Rimini. He appears to be 3rd from the right, making Grovlez the 2nd from the right. There are photos of the others available on the web so I did a quick look up and, without taking DNA samples, I believe that the names are in order from left to right. The picture of Fernand Ansseau was the most distinctive and identifiably the fartherst right. The farthest left, Igor Kipnis, is a little difficult to tell since none had him in a hat and he is bald without a hat.

I imagine that the backward caption is due to someone writing on the backside of the negative plate.

That's a neat photo, Scott. Except those men look like they belong in the mafia. But that is Chicago, so.....

Seriously, I also saw that photo from LastFM, but I don't trust it. They also showed that other photo that George had up earlier and he was also labeled as being Grovlez. Plus, the man in the photo - the one second from right does not have a big mustache like the lastfm man. I know, that doesn't necessarily mean they aren't the same man. I think we need more proof, though, another photo to help us corroborate things.

What a mystery, huh? Sort of like a game now - Who can find the real Grovlez?

_________________"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

At least, this one with the group has the names identified on the photo, not as a file name, so it would appear that we may be getting closer.

I know that one picture that showed up in a search for Grovlez was the Henry Pade (or some such name) that you have previously mentioned. What happened in that search was not that the photo was mis-attributed, but that in the image search it found Grovlez name in the text on the same page as the photo.

You might try contacting the owner of the web site. If you use the first part of the url, it gets to the home page and does have a place to contact them.

True. But does every composer have to ? For example does Mendelssohn ooze originality in his songs without words ? I think not, but nobody complains because he's famous. There will be other examples. I find these pieces by Grovlez just as attractive and varied as some by more well-known composers. But then I always have a taste for obscure composers that sing a simple song.

88man wrote:

But, there are parts that sound unmistakably Granados - a mini Goyescas... Perhaps he's trying to be Spanish Debussy?...

I've never noticed any hints of Spanish-ness here, though nos. 6 an 8 seem to have a similar atmosphere to Mompou. Just where do you hear echoes of Goyescas ?

88man wrote:

You bring out more than what's already there. Nonetheless, very well played!

Thanks for these photos Scott. I just love old photos like the first one where celebrities pose together. Even though the composer's name seems to be spelled Gabriel Grovez here, we may well assume the second from right is him, at least if the names are applicable from left to right, which they seem to be - although it's hard to be sure, and why is the text mirrored ? Probably it was written in black on the back of a negative ? Mysterious ! But we know that Grovlez worked in Chicago at one stage so it could be him.

But even without the mustache he does not seem to be the same guy from the thumbnail. Looks quite different to me. Although that is hard to be sure too because the thumbnail seems to depict a much younger man.

Maybe I should cut the image from the group photo, try to enhance it, and use it on the page. Could be copyright infringement though. Maybe a better idea to contact the Conservatoire de Paris where he studied ? They must have archives there. Someplace out there must have a picture. Can't be that Grovlez is the first modern composer we can't find a picture of....

If you flip the picture, it looks like it says L > R. , then the names of the six men. So Grovlez is presumably the second from the right or the second from the left. But I searched for a picture of Cesare Formichi and got this: http://image.allmusic.com/00/acg/cov200 ... 15z5c6.jpg which looks like the second from the left albeit younger (compare chins). I'd agree with the suggestion Grovlez is second from the right.

RSPIll wrote:

The farthest left, Igor Kipnis

Alexander. I remember reading Igor's obituary in International Piano Quarterly.

The first time I listened to Grovlez, I was in a real bad mood on Monday, and I also found out that it was going to rain on my sailing trip (tomorrow morning). I had tuned in on PS, and I must have taken it out on poor Grovlez for reinventing the musical wheel. I just listened to the suite again, and there definitely is intrinsic value to his music. History is not always fair to lesser known composers. Apart from little recognition, having a limited output makes it difficult to realize one's full potential as a composer. They are eclipsed and at times trampled by other major composers during their time. Musical Darwinism! Look how long it took to find a photo of the jovial fellow!...

The first parts of the suite started off with French Impressionism, then I heard Spanish elements to the music in the later parts. It was Chanson de l'escarpolette that seemed reminiscent of Granados both rhythmically and harmonically. Don't worry, the word "Nonetheless" referred to my aforementioned initial thoughts on Grovlez, which I wanted to be apart from your excellent playing.

BTW, the piano has a sweet and warm tone. It sounds like the strings and hammers have settled in nicely, and the registers sound tonally balanced since the restoration. I think that early Romantic music would sound wonderful on your fine piano, like Schubert!

... It's still going to rain tomorrow, so, if I am not on PS in 2 weeks, that means I was lost at stormy seas...

_________________"Nobility of spirit has more to do with simplicity than ostentation, wisdom rather than wealth, commitment rather than ambition." ~Riccardo Muti

The first time I listened to Grovlez, I was in a real bad mood on Monday, and I also found out that it was going to rain on my sailing trip (tomorrow morning). I had tuned in on PS, and I must have taken it out on poor Grovlez for reinventing the musical wheel. I just listened to the suite again, and there definitely is intrinsic value to his music.

No harm in stating he was not a beacon of originality, to which I agree. But IMO this set is an absolute charmer. I feel like revisiting another set of his, Impressions de Londres, which I toyed with ages ago and is a bit more substantial. But I can't find it anymore - I rather fear I have gotten rid of it, having sold a (maybe too) substantial amount of music recently. Damn !

88man wrote:

The first parts of the suite started off with French Impressionism, then I heard Spanish elements to the music in the later parts. It was Chanson de l'escarpolette that seemed reminiscent of Granados both rhythmically and harmonically. Don't worry, the word "Nonetheless" referred to my aforementioned initial thoughts on Grovlez, which I wanted to be apart from your excellent playing.

I am all reassured But if that Chanson sounds like Granados I must be doing something wrong, because it is marked Mouvement de Valse Viennoisee

88man wrote:

BTW, the piano has a sweet and warm tone. It sounds like the strings and hammers have settled in nicely, and the registers sound tonally balanced since the restoration.

Yes I am very pleased with it right now. It has just been tuned, the hammer felts having been roughed up a little (I asked for an intonation but that was apparently not necessary yet). The Tascam's fuller sound also helps of course.

88man wrote:

I think that early Romantic music would sound wonderful on your fine piano, like Schubert!

Ah yes. I still want to do the ubiquitous Impromptus one day. Not that we don't have them yet

I agree with you that this set has some interest. In addition to Debussy's influence (and I could be way off-base here, having never heard of Grovlez before), I seem to hear hints of Grieg (Lyric Pieces) and maybe even Dvorak, what with the drone basses and rustic, dancing rhythms (in certain pieces, e.g., No. 4). Interesting that the Berceuse de la Poupee differs from the title in the Children's Corner set by only one word, although that word makes all the difference for the piece's character My only real complaint with the music is that it sometimes lacks tautness and structural integrity, meandering discursively from section to section. But it more than makes up for that with its pleasing impressionistic sonorities and eclectic incorporation of various influences (at least so it seems to me).

Your playing of these pieces seems generally well phrased and controlled. You seem to have a feel for the slow, lyrical pieces in particular. These are also IMHO more polished than some of your earlier recordings. My only advice would be to sometimes give the technical side a bit more work. It was mostly clean and clear, but there were a few passages in which the rhythm sounded a bit awkward or the fingerwork a bit enjambed. Some things I noted about specific pieces:

1. Nice jaunty rhythm at the outset. The left hand seemed soupy in a couple of places near the beginning.

2. Very well played, sensitively phrased and nice ritard to end.

3. Good singing line. The double-note unison passage somewhere in the middle seemed as though it could be more precise (also hands not quite together).

4. Again, overall rhythm could be tauter IMO, seems as though maybe the overall tempo could be a tad faster and livelier. I like the element of surprise in your ending.

5. I like your sound and balance very much here. The underlying rhythmic pulse seems just a little bit flabby to my ears (maybe some of the accents could be a bit more mordant). I have to say I have a soft spot for these bucolic character pieces (these aren't in the league of those in the Liszt Annees, but they're pretty convincing).

6. Very elegant touch. Nice glissando-like effects. Nothing really to complain about on this one.

7. Wow, talk about a mercurial change in mood! The Viennese waltz theme is immediately apparent. This one seemed a bit overpedaled in places, and maybe a few slipped notes; nothing major though. Overall it could perhaps have more lilt and charm.

Thanks Joe. Yes there may be some tiny imperfections as always. We are amateurs after all - or at least I am.The double-note section in the middle of the Sarabande is actually impossible to play as written, i.e. legato all the way with the top note in RH held down. One has to compromise. This passage makes me thing that Grovlez was not a pianist.

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