Going back to the OP's situation then, you still haven't proven anything. The OP hasn't even stated his electricity costs. Not to mention, you're still running on the (possibly false) assumption that he is running four cards per rig, or has other means/methods of lowering the rig electricity draw per card to 25 watts. Like I already pointed out, not everyone run rigs full of four cards each. And for those of us that do not, our electric costs will be higher because of it. So, without purchasing a new motherboard and more mining hardware, he very well could have no choice but to mine at $7 of electricity per BTC.

If you reread you will find that he said it costs him .22 euros or .29 usd. I said that is crazy expensive and I don't blame him. Please stop assuming and just read...

And yet you're basing your "proven" $176 figure on $0.19/kwh...

Like I said I was only proving that kokojie was pulling numbers out of his ass with out an explanation. At no point was he referencing the op's numbers.

Ah, ok. It was certainly a convoluted series of posts. I'll let kokojie respond then - I won't try to argue his electrical expenditures and profit margin for him.

Mining is absolutely necessary or the transfers between people can't happen - right?

If there were only one miner, using a CPU even, transfers could still happen.

What mining gives is the ability for the blockchain to be trusted as being correct without having a master node or other system of centralized authority.

Bitcoin only needs an amount of hashing sufficient to ensure that no party or cartel has 50%+1 of the mining capacity. At 12 Thash/s there is likely way more than is necessary at this level of adoption. There may be even an order of magnitude more hashing that is truly needed, it could be argued perhaps.

that and also there are alternatives to use the computing power before giving away for free

What are the other ones?

Gaming!

How do you do that? What kind of payout?

I was making $10 to $20 per day on World of Warcraft (WoW) earlier this year. You just use bot software like LazyBot and Pirox Fishbot, then leave your characters to farm (mining, herbing, skinning, killing and looting mobs) all on their own.

The problem with this though, is that if you get busted by Blizzard, you can lose your chars, that took a freeking long time to level up. The char you aim to use to handle the gold should be on an account that in no way links to your farming characters' accounts.

The only game/virtual world where you can make money and make a profit, safely, and without fear of the wrath of the developer, is Second Life. But that generally involves a LOT of study and experience... it really can be the 2nd life... too realistic on the work front. But for those with a creative bent it can be very enjoyable.

One last virtual environment and game is Entropia Universe, but although you can and are allowed to make money, you are more than likely never going to make a profit. The chance to make a profit in that game has long gone. But it is a LOT of fun. If you deposit funds into that world via your bank account, you are only allowed to deposit no more than $30, which is just right for a decent game, and I have made that last for nearly 3 months at a time.

Chucksta's introduction to making $$$$ by gaming

In conclusion, Second Life is the only one where you can make a decent living, but that requires a LOT of commitment and a LOT of work

how the money flow for silk drug addict buy btc on exchange -> drug addict buy drugs on silk -> btc go to drug dealer-> drug dealer sell btc on exchange -> drug dealer get $/€ to buy supply this flow is way to short because starts on exchange and end on exchange, fees are insignificant for this so at the end you get; nothing zero 0 nada that helps bitcoin economy

What the F*** are you talking about. Ok, here is an example.

I buy BTC on an exchange - then trade them for 500 pair of alpaca socks - the sock dealer trades the BTC for fiat at an exchange to buy a new loom - isn't that the same thing? Or are you supposed to buy BTC and throw the BTC on your feet to keep warm.

Here is a real trade that i've made.

I bought BTC from MtGox - I traded them at BitPorum for a Motherboard that was not available anywhere else (new old stock) - Unless Bitporum throws my BTC on their feet to get warm then I assume he traded them for fiat to buy a replacement motherboard for his stock + pocket the profit. What the fu*k else are you supposed to do with them. You can't smoke them directly. LOL

These simple quick transactions are exactly what Bitcoin needs. I’m not sure what myself is thinking the network needs.. More speculators perhaps? Certainly not more Miners. More people using Bitcoin to purchase everyday things will create more demand for the currency in general and the liquidity provided by huge numbers of small transactions will help to stabilize the Bitcoin prices.

The biggest thing standing in the way of Bitcoin’s success is that it's so hard for regular folks to use them right now. There needs to be simple to use merchant interfaces, which allow small businesses to sell goods and services and receive payment in Bitcoin without having to jump through so many hoops. Next, there needs to be a real push by Bitcoin users to get your favorite merchants to accept Bitcoins as payment. These merchants will display signage indicating that they accept Bitcoin, which will cause more consumers to become aware of the currency thus increasing demand for Bitcoins. As long as Bitcoin is seen as an exotic currency used by geeks and criminals in the dark corners of the Internet its future viability will always be in question.

it needs allot of stuff to create value not just to proxy around deals, today there are allot of bitcoins stuck in ppl hands there are no serious banks that can invest in bitcoins start ups for example, when you pile money in one place(aka banks) they use ur money to invest and create something, this does not happen in bitcoin world so we are stuck w/ allot of coins that only is a proxy

We are a long long way from taking out a mortgage valued in Bitcoins.. I think we need to focus on being able to buy a sandwich first.

Also, when banks make loans they are in effect multiplying the amount of available money.. See Money multiplier.. this doesn't really work with Bitcoins because there is a fixed number of them. If a central authority (the Federal Reserve) can't print more neither can the banks.

Bitcoin startups would be funded the same as any other technology startup which is usually handled by venture capitalists and not so much the traditional banking system.

bitcoin banks will have to work more like sharia banks not like banks in the west

I’m not sure I understand.. I looked up sharia banking but it all seems like a shell game to comply with the Islamic law against charging interest while still charging interest.

The situation I am talking about is this:1. Person A has $1000 in the bank2. Bank loans $1000 to Person B who pays Person C who puts it in the bank3. Now Person A has $1000 in the bank AND Person C has $1000 in the bank.. and it’s the same $1000.Wash, Rinse, Repeat..

This is why we have FDIC deposit insurance in the USA so when everyone wants their money back and all that money doesn’t really exist.. the government just steps in and makes up the difference (perhaps by printing more money)

Also, you want to take loans in the same currency you are paid in. Otherwise you can get slaughtered by market fluctuation.