Don't forget that if your OC spray is in a hard plastic container it makes an excellent impact weapon similar to a Kubotan.

This is very true.

May 27th, 2012, 07:51 PM

Burns

Quote:

Originally Posted by accessbob

I carry spray with me daily as a non-lethal extra option. I had to use one of mine not too long ago, but it was on a pack of dogs who were charging at me full speed. I don't know if it was the spray or the loud NO! I yelled when spraying at them that got them to stop but they did and ran off. Just that in itself has convinced me that I never want to be without it. I have been wanting to see about the Kimber spray as it is something that seems to be a good alternative as well.

Yeah i cant believe i forgot to mention that. Its awesome for animals, it stays in their fur and they cant get it off easy at all. And then they run
Home to their owners and they get a good dose of it too :)

May 27th, 2012, 08:05 PM

Happypuppy

Quote:

Originally Posted by BugDude

I always carry OC spray. I figure my objective is to escape a situation, and if a shot of OC spray gives me a chance to get out of dodge without having to use my firearm, then it is a smart play.

+1 I like your thinking !

May 27th, 2012, 08:53 PM

nedrgr21

If my life is in danger I'm not using pepper spray.

I've gone thru a couple gas chambers courtesy of Uncle Sam, and it might not be the same thing, but I wasn't impressed. Some guys wound up puking and blind, but not others. It wouldn't have incapacitated me. A certain percentage won't be affected, another group will get pissed off, and yet another will be under the influence of drugs/alcohol - that's too many groups to rely on it. I've about decided to just get one of those stun gun pens - anyone know the effectiveness of those?

May 27th, 2012, 09:11 PM

Burns

Quote:

Originally Posted by nedrgr21

If my life is in danger I'm not using pepper spray.

I've gone thru a couple gas chambers courtesy of Uncle Sam, and it might not be the same thing, but I wasn't impressed. Some guys wound up puking and blind, but not others. It wouldn't have incapacitated me. A certain percentage won't be affected, another group will get pissed off, and yet another will be under the influence of drugs/alcohol - that's too many groups to rely on it. I've about decided to just get one of those stun gun pens - anyone know the effectiveness of those?

I've done LOADS of research on non-lethal alternatives. Stun guns are nearly worthless if you are not a LEO, and even then they are still extremely unreliable.

I think you are underestimating pepper spray. There are quite a few out there that aren't very effective and cost about $4, but the ones that I have listed in the original post will be effective on nearly everybody. When I say that it doesn't work as well on those who are intoxicated, that means they might need an extra spray to be most effective. Personally I have never seen a single person not affected by pepper spray, in any physical or mental state, even on the internet.

If you are looking for a non-lethal alternative I suggest you give pepper spray a little more research and I think you'll be surprised at what you find. If you still choose otherwise Tasers are EXTREMELY effective and basically the only other good alternative I have found. But it comes with a price tag ranging from $500-$1000 it's not exactly cheap...

May 27th, 2012, 09:20 PM

barstoolguru

Quote:

If my life is in danger I'm not using pepper spray.

this is very understandable and no one here is saying don't use lethal force all he is saying is sometimes lethal force is not the first response to some situations and I bring up Z and M in FL if Z would have used pepper spray it would have been all over with but because he didn't he is out a lot of money and might spend more time in jail… the alternative…. A 15.00 can of pepper spray

May 27th, 2012, 09:23 PM

Burns

Quote:

Originally Posted by barstoolguru

this is very understandable and no one here is saying don't use lethal force all he is saying is sometimes lethal force is not the first response to some situations and I bring up Z and M in FL if Z would have used pepper spray it would have been all over with but because he didn't he is out a lot of money and might spend more time in jail… the alternative…. A 15.00 can of pepper spray

Exactly. In our typical day we will not be encountering a danger of lethal force, if you do however, definitely go for the gun if your life is at risk.

May 28th, 2012, 01:39 AM

nedrgr21

From the original post: "If it is your life in danger, spray and immediately run (if possible). " As I said, just ain't gonna happen.

Ok, actually looked at some youtube vids and I ain't impressed. I've got an Olight T10 with a strobe to blind/disorient someone. Still don't have a whole lot of confidence in sprays, but will have to reconsider.

May 28th, 2012, 07:39 AM

abillb

Good write up! Need some for not so lethal threats. Loose dogs etc. "Likes" issued!

May 28th, 2012, 04:15 PM

vista461

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burns

I think you are underestimating pepper spray. There are quite a few out there that aren't very effective and cost about $4, but the ones that I have listed in the original post will be effective on nearly everybody. When I say that it doesn't work as well on those who are intoxicated, that means they might need an extra spray to be most effective. Personally I have never seen a single person not affected by pepper spray, in any physical or mental state, even on the internet.

I've been sprayed twice. Both times we then had to fight through and fight with the "bad guy", one of the times we also had to shoot at a target with a simunition gun. It all depends on how motivated the person in you are spraying. I was miserable during and after, but was still able to fight through it.

May 28th, 2012, 04:51 PM

Burns

Quote:

Originally Posted by vista461

I've been sprayed twice. Both times we then had to fight through and fight with the "bad guy", one of the times we also had to shoot at a target with a simunition gun. It all depends on how motivated the person in you are spraying. I was miserable during and after, but was still able to fight through it.

Yeah that's why I including after spraying, you should run away. I would never spray and not be ready to fight, it just gives you a much better chance, especially if you move around a lot, I'm sure when you got sprayed it wasn't easy to open your eyes and when you did, I'm sure it wasn't very easy to see.

May 28th, 2012, 05:13 PM

ironmike86

Exactly. Ppl who don't trust spay don't use it. But there are times you won't have a gun. The Pepper spray will help you to run or in your hand to hand. I usually have a gun,spray and a knife.

May 28th, 2012, 06:40 PM

gobbly

I think everyone has to make their own decisions on the use of non-lethal measures, but here's my view on it, and why I don't use them.

If I, or someone else, is under threat of severe harm, I want the most reliable method to neutralize that threat. I have far more faith in the construction and maintenance of my Kimber 1911 than I do from a bottle of spray. I regularly visit the range to ensure my firearm is functioning flawlessly, and if something is amiss I immediately identify and resolve the issue. I also know my capabilities with the firearm after extensive range work, something that would be exceedingly difficult to maintain with a spray. I know that when I pull the trigger on my firearm, that bullet will continue in a forward trajectory. No amount of wind is going to blow my JHP's back at me. I also know that if I put a few rounds in someone who happens to make it to me, I don't have to worry about their blood incapacitating me. With spray, being tackled by a BG covered in it is likely to render me much less effective at self defense. I also understand that chemical sprays can vary in how people react, whereas I have confidence that every human being on earth will have the same physiological response to a properly placed shot with a firearm.

Now, I do not want to imply that the firearm is fullproof. There are plenty of places you can get shot and still keep on going for quite some time, and by no means are all bullet wounds incapacitating or life-threatening. However, I still feel that there are more absolutes with the firearm. A spine shot, heart shot, or center mass brain shot is basically going to have the same effect every time, no matter who it is. Even hitting the right bone can basically guarantee incapacitation. There are basically no absolutes that I can trust with something like OC spray.

Something else to consider is the deterrent factor. My understanding from reading research papers is that the majority of confrontations where a firearm is employed for self defense result in no shots being fired. Someone feels threatened, they pull their piece and the BG runs or freezes or whatever. I don't know much about the statistics with pepper spray, but I certainly believe that a BG who might risk a shot of pepper spray, might not take that same risk when staring down the barrel of a gun.

I also train in martial arts (TKD), which gives me more confidence in a hand to hand situation (sans weapons). I can control my fighting far more than I can control a spray. In fact, fighting someone covered in some nasty substance could easily diminish any advantage I might have from my tkd training.

I would certainly agree that for some people, sprays are the way to go. I just thought it prudent to consider all the possibilities and evaluate how you would handle different situations. There's a lot more involved in self defense than a choice of weapon! :)

May 28th, 2012, 07:18 PM

CaptSmith

Having trained a little with OC (got all the OC training I need for my lifetime)....get a big face dose, keep your gun and\or keep on your feet, or defend your self, or navigate to a safe area..Im not packin OC, just pistols and knives thankyou...but heck..I'm not required to respond in a non-lethal manner...

May 29th, 2012, 12:26 PM

Burns

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptSmith

Im not packin OC, just pistols and knives thankyou...but heck..I'm not required to respond in a non-lethal manner...

In a lot of situations you ARE required to use a non-lethal alternative, if any, or you can face some very serious jail time. Not every criminal encounter calls for lethal force. It's your life tho, I'm here to give some advice and help people that want an alternative, not to try to convince them. Good luck.