Astral Projection and Higher Conciousness Through the use of Convensional / Non-Convensional Methods

According to Michael Talbot in The Holographic Universe he says the brain records information in the same way a holographic plate does. If you cut a
plate in half, you still get the same image when you process it, albeit less clear, than the ful plate. A holographic plate can record many images
depending on which angle you cut the image with the laser. Instead of laser though we record our memories with our senses.

Anyway if it was possible for us to get inside the hologram via meditation or drugs then maybe this is what we would find

Anyway whatever the answer is, the brain is a remarkable tool and we need threads like this to share ideas

Originally posted by Apocalypse69
I recently read the Steven LaBerge book "Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming" and from his experiments he concluded that AP is actually only lucid
dreaming.

He said the dream self can leave the body and explore the dream world, even looking down at your sleeping body. This would also explain why everybody
sees the room as a little different to the real thing. It isn't real. Just a figment of your imagination.

I have had a few lucid dream experiences since reading the book and they were awesome. More real than real life as my senses seemed 100 times better
in the dream.

Has anyone ever met someone during AP who has corroborated their story?

I have read the long thread by theRiverGoddess, but to me there wasn't any concrete evidence that AP is a real phenomenon and not a product of our
holographic brain

I would love AP to be real but I have my doubts now after reading books by Munro and others. It proves we can exist after death if true. But even
Munro could never corroborate that he actually left his body.

Actually, Bob Monroe and others working with him in his lab did physically prove they left their bodies through rigorous scientific research.

ps, people writing books about Lucid Dreaming, and calling AP just a "dreamstate", is like someone at who watches Jurassic Park, then writes a book
about how Dinosaurs never existed because human can't objectivly prove it.

You can, but there will always be those who are blind and refute facts.

Either way, that's being illogical and NOT looking at all the data. That's not science, that's a dogamtic belief system that you claim is
objective. An opinion not based in any fact.

Originally posted by Odessy
When people dream, they are APing without realizing it, which is why APing is often referred to as "Dream Yoga." When you encounter people in your
dreams, or while APing, those are usually real people, also sleeping or APing and not knowing it (I'll give a great example later).

I think this is a little bit too optimistic, but then again it does depend on what you define "Astral Projection" as.

One thing though is that I remember almost every dream I have, and Im 100% certain that the majority of people that I meet in dreams, are not real.

1.: They weren't asleep in the real world at that time
2.: Their personal experiences conflict with their dream-characters. (Like meeting someone in a dream that the other person didn't have)
3.: Their personalities conflict greatly with their dream-characters. (I know one guy who never remembers his dreams, and whenever he does he tells me
what's going on. In a dream of mine he claimed that he knew that it was a dream, which was complete BS because he never had lucid dreams lol)

Convensional should be Conventional I think?

Anyway, it is fun to do, there's even a name for Dream-Explorers that have lots of lucid dreams.

Oneironauts

The personal way I perceive the difference between LD'ing and AP'ing is very simple btw.

LD: Dream in which you become aware that you are dreaming, after which you can continue to modify or explore your dreamworld.

AP: Technique in which you enter the ''real world'' as a supernatural entity (aka your ''spirit-self'' or w/e you want to call it.)

Personally I like to fantasize about Dreams being like servers, each brain functioning as the ''host'' of this server, and thus making it possible
for people to try and ''break through'' the magical barrier that keeps people's dreams for themselves.

How cool would it be to break through the spiritual firewall of one's dream-server, and become part of his / her dreams?

Ive had strange dreams, .... dreams that have lasted for weeks, living a different life, a different me,...... but I distinctly remember waking up
everyday in my dream, ... and wondering if everything was real. because I had a strange feeling about it all, ..... as if, every room only existed
when I entered it, .... or as if my bed only appeared when I woke up. Some quantum physicists beleive the real world behaves this way.

As far as obe's go, ... they arent lucid dreams, I've been able to go through all the stages and seperate while conscious. It kinda hits me
randomnly these days, I dont have to try anymore, nore do I think I need to. though I yearn to go back, I know there is a time and place for that.
For people wanting to try, it took me months of practice, and the first time it happened is the day I didnt try. You must get your consciousness used
to the idea of being seperate from your body, .... basically I think its only possible, .... when you beleive it is. Another good tip I learned from
William Buhlman, .... interupt your sleep somehow, with an alarm, or maybe some day you cant sleep..... stay up for a couple of hours, then go back
to sleep. .... this method has always had good results for me. but the better you become, the less prep you will need, if any at all. Its like as soon
as you have the first one, ..... that door stays open. untill one day, ..... you wont need to sleep at all.

OP, are you saying that lucid dreams are in the same "network" as astral projection? You said that most of the people in your dream are real people
also dreaming, but I have found that this really isn't true...
Then you said you could transition into astral projection from a lucid dream, but you said there isn't really any difference between the two anyway
right?
So if I wanted to verify that my soul is really separated from my body, and do something such as going to my friends house to see what they are
wearing (and confirming it with them when I wake up), what would I have to do, just get a lucid dream?

Originally posted by bl4ke360
OP, are you saying that lucid dreams are in the same "network" as astral projection? You said that most of the people in your dream are real people
also dreaming, but I have found that this really isn't true...

Sorry, when I say that other people in your dreams are real people, I'm not talking through personal experience, just from the stuff I quoted. What I
get from this is that if you are successfully having an OOBE, then people you meet while APing might be real people. I don't really know though.

As far as Lucid Dreaming being connected, I think that lucid dreaming is a way to help yourself become more conscious in your sleep, and can lead to
APing, like a first step if you will. The second time I APed, I was lucid dreaming, then, when I realized I was dreaming, I decided to AP and was in
the same room I was sleeping in.

Then you said you could transition into astral projection from a lucid dream, but you said there isn't really any difference between the two
anyway right?

No, I never said there wasn't really a difference between the two. I think there is a BIG difference between the two. Lucid Dreaming is only the
first step to Astral Projection.

So if I wanted to verify that my soul is really separated from my body, and do something such as going to my friends house to see what they are
wearing (and confirming it with them when I wake up), what would I have to do, just get a lucid dream?

I've heard of this test before. I say no, you would have to be Astral Projecting. When you are lucid dreaming, you are still dreaming, when you are
Astral Projecting, you are not.

I DONT think that everyone you meet in your dreams are Astrally projecting. I wish I could go back and edit that. That is a statement made by Samael
Aun Weor. What I think he is referring to is that many people who are dreaming may be Astrally projecting without being conscious of it.

I wish I could change that statement to "many" people, instead of categorizing it as all people.

I see, but how were you able to verify to yourself that when you were in that "state" that you were actually separate from your body, like the
example I said?

Usually personal verification comes in the form of saying something like "holy crap." I wasn't exactly the most eloquent the first time I
succeeded. I like to make the comparison of having sex for the first time in highschool. You'll tell all your friends about it the next morning and
they'll all look at you and say... "nah, no you didn't." You can choose to decide for yourself whether or not you're truly separated from your
body. Personal verification is easy, verifying for another person is not the easiest. Unless someone knows how to bilocate and can corporeal manifest
their astral body while someone in the room watching with 12 other scientists, you're probably not going to get verification other than being the
actual person doing it. But that's kinda like pulling off an interception at the goalline and running 100 yards down to your endzone. I liked that
moment of the superbowl...

Burn your hand on the stove and verify if it was a good idea or bad idea. You'll probably decide bad idea. The guy standing next to you might do the
same and decide it was a good idea, because now he doesn't feel so cold

Like I said. I was in my room floating horizontally a few feet next to my bed. A few seconds after the phone rang and I tried to go back into my body
(which strange enough, I didn't see), which didn't work, so I started to pinch my astral self.. Which worked after about 10 seconds. (Don't ask me
why I bothered with answering the phone while having my very first OOBE, that still remains a mystery to me).

P.s: Only once was I able to see my sleeping body during an OOBE. That was several months later.. Somewhere around 2001.

The first time I APed, I was floating over my bed, face down, and got really excited. When I started getting excited I started floating down, back
into my body. I could feel that I was going back into my body, but I couldn't actually see my body. I calmed down and gave myself a slight push off
the bed, and floated back up, before exploring the bathroom next door, where I could actually see my reflection.

The second time, I was lucid dreaming. When I decided to AP, everything went black, and it took me a few seconds to open my eyes. This was about 6
months after the first AP, and while I never looked at my body, I knew if I had it would be there. Its a strange feeling, thats for sure, but an
amazing one as well.

I know this particular forum has been inactive for some time. However, I felt it necessary to reach out and get a few opinions and this is the a good
topic for such a post.

Since my last girlfriend left me in October of 08' I have been having powerful dreams involving her almost every night. At first I thought I was just
having trouble coping with the loss. It's now been close to a year since the break up and these still continue. Now, to start with the oddities of
this situation.

It began with vivid dreams of her in tremendous mental agony over the whole situation. As I would walk into her room the strength of her distress
would infect me and I would feel unable to break away. The first oddity I noticed was the slight difference in the shape of her room, very slight. It
appeared to be a hair smaller. I would attempt to console her, but it was as if I was a ghost unable to fully make contact. Like I could see this
world but couldn't cross into it.

Three weeks of this re-occurring dream and I decided to go see her (The Event). The situation unfolded verbatim. A little un-nerving was the feeling
of something different in the room, almost like someone watching or making a record of this moment coming to pass. Seeing this vivid dream for weeks
was the catalyst to get me there. Where I hypothesize I may have in inadvertently changed the path of my dimension to somewhere it shouldn't be.

I didn't give it to much thought until I started having even more powerful dreams linking back to the original dimension path that I had affected by
making the dream come to pass. Slight oddities in the surroundings of the dreams appeared to be happening in my woken state (ws) as opposed to my
dream state (ds), like a heightened state of de ja vu. Also, I appeared to have an extreme psychic connection with her. When friends would tell me
about her I could literally be in the room, in my mind, and could often times finish her portion of the dialog before the person got to what she had
said. Needless to say I began feeling uncomfortable with the situation.

The dreams of the original path usually involved her and I doing something together. Little things like stores thriving or closing (IE a store that
had been thriving before the Event would close within weeks) in my ws, in ds they appear to be moving forward with business as usual. On more than one
occasion I have seen someone I recently met in ds walking down the street and forget they are a stranger, therefore reaching out and having an
embarrassing moment.

I live in a small town and have only run into her once. During this interaction it seemed that she was having trouble connecting her thoughts. Often
times she would blankly stare at me as though I was a window into another place, I could feel her looking through me. We talked for a while in this
odd setting. It felt to me as though we were standing somewhere between the ws and ds, reality seemed thin around us. Like we were living this moment
in the event horizon of a black hole.

I am currently still living this thing through. I had another installment of this bizarre dreaming reality last night. Her and I sit happily in the
front yard of a friends house (One that I have made in ds and am wondering if I will see in ws). I am currently looking through google maps to find
the place in hopes that I may find some sort of answer there. In the dream it appears to be sometime in early fall, late afternoon.

What are your thoughts? Maybe I should try APing to unravel this as well.

Another good book I wish to refer to anyone wanting to learn to Astral Project is a book called "Astral Dynamics" by Robert Bruce, read that book
all the way through and i can promise that you will have much better progress.

Great thread OP. I am going to start on your techniques. Gawd, I have been trying unsuccessfully now for a couple of years to AP. I feel like such
an academic. I have read all the books, attended seminars, lectures, listened to videos ad nauseum, tried every method in the book to no real avail.

You were speaking of '___' but I remember hearing of a certain OTC drug that has the side effect of AP. I don't remember what it was though.

Odyssey, now that you have had your own personal projections what differences have you seen in your life? Has there been a noticeable change in your
daily thoughts and habits? Do you find yourself more aware spiritually? Psychically?

I feel like AP is the key to my personal evolution and it eludes me at every step. I want to get out of my body again. It's only happened once and
was so many years ago. I want to make it my daily routine.

I Just wanted to share somthing for the past two years ive been using sleep deprivation to hear voices.. I know this sounds crazy but it started by
accident and since than ive done it several times on purpose. I stay up all night and than i stay awake all of the next day and around 130 am on my
second day with no sleep i will lay down in total darkness.. the voices always start off to where i can here speech patterns and syllables and slowly
they get louder until i can make out what they are saying..
I write down what they say so that i wont forget. the first voice during my last study said IM BEING ENCLOSED UNDER GRANITE STEPS the voices always
repeat themselves over and over and eventually fade off until the next one comes another one said PLEASE TELL ME WHERE THE # I AM. they always sound
so lost and tormented and they never interact with me almost like they have no idea whats going on around them ive listened to them for hours and im
always amazed at the stuff they say some of them are male some are female some are children some speak in what sounds like spanish. some of them sing
choruses from songs ive never heard,,songs that sound to be from the 1920's when i plug my ears they can not be heard so the voices are not in my
head.. one time i got really creeped out when the voice said WHY DID YOU HAVE TO KILL ME ..Maybe its my imagination or just maybe spirits are
everywhere and sleep deprivation creates a state of mind that becomes sensitive to the other side ?? have you heard of any simalar expieriances like
this ??

I had a question regarding the dalai lamas experience you posted about how he met and talked to that old lady when he was APing. Does this mean that
when you see and talk to people you know when you are dreaming, that they too are also dreaming?i always thought that when you met and hung out and
talked or whatever to people you know such as friends, that it was just your subconscious mind or thoughts/thought forms that made them appear in your
dream.
Any light on this subject would be really appreciated.
Thanks

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