It is not a fact that government and educational institutions discriminate openly against white males?

I never said anything specifically about acceptance rates to med schools and I understand one story does not a phenomenon make, I was simply relating my experience, but as long as you raise the topic, the rate of acceptance is far from definitive evidence that white males are not discriminated against in academia.

Rate of acceptance cannot measure all those white males who are intelligent enough to get into pre-med and college, but because they were denied scholarships and access to the financial aid that is available to minorities could not afford to attend and so do not even bother to apply. Moreover, these statistics assume rates of acceptance should be relative to each race's proportion of the population. This is simply not true. White males not only have a higher mean intelligence, but a larger standard deviation, meaning there should be a highly dispoportionate number accepted as compared to all other races.

Rates of acceptance do not take into account all those white males who may have been intelligent enough, but were never given the tools to navigate academia. The process of becomming a doctor can be incredibly daunting , especially to students from lower socioeconomic strata, white people without the connections of the upper middle class and elite, whose family may be unfamilar with the tactics of resume building. Unlike non-whites, there are no advocates to help guide them through this process. In fact the opposite is true, white males are actively discouraged "Minorities and women strongly encouraged" is the familar refrain.

It's easy for white elites to tell their lower class brethern to "pull themselves up by the bootstraps and go out and do it" because they are largely insulated from the anti-white discrimination that can stifle working class white students with higher aspirations and assures those who aren't thinking about pursuing higher learning continue not to. These students often have parents who did not attend college themselves and may not stress higher education as important, neither do they have have access to the money and connections that chart a relatively smooth course from high school to pre-med to med school. White males must compete against everyone , where as minorities and women have advocates and scholarships that exist soley on their behalf which they alone have access to. In essence, white males must share their resources, but non-whites are not expected to. I know of no similar situation for Indians or Chinese. I also know of no Chinese of Indian program actively recruiting whites into their countries to compete with their domestic talent.

For the most part I agree with what you are advocating. It's up to us as white people to change the course of things. However, what I (and I suspect some of the other posters in this thread) take issue with is your perceived ignorance of the acdemic realities for a huge proportion of the white population who lack the advantages of the upper middle class and elite. Those whites whose parents will never enroll them in an SAT course or AP physics or get them involved in a summer internship are much more susceptible to the anti-white bigotry and anti-white propaganda than upper class whites. Indeed much of the racist hatred directed and lower class whites comes form the white elite, who are unconcerned with anti-white dsicrimination as they are largely unaffected by it. Who cares about discrimination in scholarship and grant awards when you can pay for you tuition yourself? For a young, working class white man, there is little encouragement to even pursue the path to becoming a doctor and little help if he does decide to. Why bother? Why not just follow dad into the mine?

I actually know several people who are doctors, nurses and med students. Do YOU?

Interestingly enough yes. I have a friend who attended University of California Irvine - but is now enrolled overseas at China Medical University. He is able to complete his education faster / and much cheaper than if he had attended school here so he chose to go this route. He is a product of the California public school system and is certainly 'middle class' - I also have a friend who is about to graduate from RPI though he is a 'rich kid' so this discussion on educational opportunities would not apply to him.

Also see:

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Originally Posted by man1

Izhorians speaks the truth here. I'm a first year medical student. Our class is about 170. Most of us are white, but there are lots of non-white students. Absolutely none of the non-white students were imported from a third world country. None of the many Indian students in my class talk like Gandhi. They talk like Kumar from Harold and Kumar Go to White Castle. Why? Because they were born and raised in the San Fernando Valley, not the Chennai Valley.

I don't think I've gone through anything as meritocratic as medical school admissions. Look at the admissions stats Izhorians linked to previously Table 25: MCAT and GPA Grid for Applicants and Acceptees to U.S. Medical Schools by Selected Race and Ethnicity, 2005 to 2007 (aggregated) - FACTS - AAMC The applicants with the highest college grades and MCAT scores get into medical school. Some may say that grades are inflated for minorities. There may be some truth in that. But these admissions stats show that only 78% of the highest GPA group got into medical school, while 93% of the highest MCAT scores group got into medical school. The take-home message here is that if you do well on the MCAT, which is pretty much bullet-proof from diversity-celebrating grade inflation, you'll get into medical school.

The reason why some minorities appear to be over-represented in medical school is because their parents and their cultures value education. Where I grew up, the Indian and Asian kids always got the top grades and got into the best colleges because that's what was important to their parents. Most of the white parents were more interested in their kids playing sports. If we want to see more white doctors, white students will have to start doing better in the classroom.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alabamachick

I wonder what you mean when you say they have an "objective" viewpoint. They have taken the side of the Pakistani terrorist in NYC? They don't think France should be banning women in headscarves?

I would actually rank Aljazeera amoung my top 3 sources for quality as far as 'large media' broadcasters go (the other two being BBC and the AP) - 'new media' such as wikileaks notwithstanding.

I wonder if you have actually read any of their material before making a judgment on the objectivity of their content? Perhaps you based your opinion on the foreign sounding name or hearsay?

Interesting to note:

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Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aljazeera#United_States_2

While prior to 11 September 2001, the United States government had lauded Al Jazeera for its role as an independent media outlet in the Middle East, US officials have since claimed an anti-American bias to Al Jazeera's news coverage.

It is not a fact that government and educational institutions discriminate openly against white males?

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Originally Posted by Pan Tadeusz

White males must compete against everyone , where as minorities and women have advocates and scholarships that exist soley on their behalf which they alone have access to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pan Tadeusz

they were denied scholarships and access to the financial aid that is available to minorities

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pan Tadeusz

all those white males who may have been intelligent enough, but were never given the tools to navigate academia.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pan Tadeusz

neither do they have have access to the money and connections that chart a relatively smooth course from high school to pre-med to med school.

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Originally Posted by Pan Tadeusz

discrimination in scholarship and grant awards

Can you point out which government financial aid program discriminates on race?

I receive FAFSA aid, and if you have ever had to file for it you would see that

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Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAFSA

The FAFSA does not have questions related to student or family race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, disability, or religion.

Additionally as I mentioned earlier here - the US has a fantastic community college system that is affordable and accessible - and there are certainly no issues of discrimination when enrolling in a CC.

And while true that in the past there were 'official' scholarships that had requirements based on ethnicity, I can't think of a single government or school offered scholarship today that discriminates based on race

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Originally Posted by http://www.collegescholarships.org/scholarships/white-scholarship-guide.htm

Revamped: Minority Scholarships Must Include White and Male

Suddenly it must have occurred to some that if you dug down into the nitty-gritty of Civil Rights and analyzed the ills of Affirmative Action, you could make a good legal argument contesting the Constitutional validity of most scholarships today, particularly those offered through federally-funded institutions. Over the last five or six years conservative watchdog groups like the Center for Equal Opportunity (CEO) have called universities like the University of Michigan, Southern Illinois University, and SUNY on the carpet for racial discrimination in their admissions practices. At question are the scholarships restricted to minorities. In response to the threat of legal action, all have revamped their “minority” and female-focused scholarships to include white students and males.

You’ve likely Heard of California’s Proposition 209, which in 1996 made it illegal for public colleges and universities in California to consider admissions on the basis of race, creed, sex or color. Michigan’s recent Proposition 2, a.k.a. Michigan Civil Rights Initiative, is cut from similar fabric. It was passed in early 2006 and makes the same educational admissions processes illegal as well.

And if there happen to be an abundance of such organizations catering to non-whites, it's up to us to close the gap by offering such opportunities to white students.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pan Tadeusz

The process of becomming a doctor can be incredibly daunting , especially to students from lower socioeconomic strata, white people without the connections of the upper middle class and elite, whose family may be unfamilar with the tactics of resume building. Unlike non-whites, there are no advocates to help guide them through this process.

One of our fellow forum members, Concord Celtic actually has done a project regarding the number of organizations set up to help blacks vs whites - he may have some data to share regarding how many similar organizations whites have set up - (see: https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t700667/)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pan Tadeusz

Moreover, these statistics assume rates of acceptance should be relative to each race's proportion of the population. This is simply not true. White males not only have a higher mean intelligence but a larger standard deviation, meaning there should be a highly dispoportionate number accepted as compared to all other races.

Actually,

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Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence#Test_scores

Using data primarily from the United States and Europe, Jensen and Rushton have estimated the average IQ of Blacks/Africans to be around 85; of whites/Europeans to be around 100, and of East Asians to be around 106.

According to Richard Lynn and others, racial differences in IQ scores are observed around the world. A commonly-cited review by Richard Lynn lists IQ scores for East Asians (105), Europeans (99)

and specifically regarding Indian Americans in the US -

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Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_American#Education

Indian Americans have the highest percentage of higher education when compared to other racial groups. According to the American Association of Physicians of Indian Origin, there are close to 35,000 Indian American doctors. According to the 2000 census, about 64% of Indian Americans have attained a Bachelor's degree or more. (compared to 28% nationally, and 44% average for all Asian American groups). Almost 40% of all Indians have a master’s, doctorate or other professional degree, which is five times the national average.

And you're correct - in that "there should be a highly dispoportionate number accepted as compared to all other races" and there are. White males are the highest demographic in the medical industry, followed by Indians as a distant second.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pan Tadeusz

In fact the opposite is true, white males are actively discouraged "Minorities and women strongly encouraged" is the familar refrain.

These students often have parents who did not attend college themselves and may not stress higher education as important

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pan Tadeusz

Those whites whose parents will never enroll them in an SAT course or AP physics or get them involved in a summer internship

Exactly the issue! (and the best thing about studying or enrolling in an internship - it's free)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pan Tadeusz

I know of no similar situation for Indians or Chinese. I also know of no Chinese of Indian program actively recruiting whites into their countries to compete with their domestic talent.

I personally know someone (white, US citizen) who attends a medical school in Shenyang, China. The school has an 'international program' - all courses are taught in English and it has students enrolled from all around the world.

I have heard of numerous similar programs in the Caribbean and in India - and Europe of course has medical universities open to foreign applicants.

And contrary to this entire line of reasoning, US medical schools are the most difficult to gain admintance to if you are an international student! A large number of US schools will not accept international applicants at all! You may find this a rather enlightening read: NAAHP: International Medical Schools for U.S. Citizens

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pan Tadeusz

For the most part I agree with what you are advocating. It's up to us as white people to change the course of things.

Indeed!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pan Tadeusz

acdemic realities for a huge proportion of the white population who lack the advantages

Rather, it's not a huge proportion of whites who lack the advantage - but rather a huge proportion who are not taking advantage of the opportunities available to them! I completely agree that a huge part of this may be due to having no knowledge of such programs or parental guidance - but again, that is something only we can change.

Well....hmmmm....I think it is interesting that you have picked an arab website as an alternative source, but considering that the people on this website are obsessed with arab muslims I guess I am not surprised.

I wonder what you mean when you say they have an "objective" viewpoint. They have taken the side of the Pakistani terrorist in NYC? They don't think France should be banning women in headscarves?

I am also curious about what you mean when you say this website is whiter than our websites.

Al-Jazerra is a lot different from how it was in Iraq under Saddam Hussein. Now they're very much international and I'm pretty sure they're not taking sides of the terrorists. I'm not sure what they were doing before the Iraq war -- I think they were more disreputable -- but they seem to be pretty fair and balanced now. Cnn.com and similar websites are far more multicultural.

For the attempted bombing in NYC they did the same thing as all the other websites, and I haven't seen anything about France's head scarf banning on there. Cnn.com has been making a big deal about it, but I haven't seen much coverage about it on Al Jazeera.

I can't really speak for Dr's, but I have spoke to many in my day. It is hard to become a Dr, very expensive schooling, expensive insurance, and very long underpaid internships.

I find it a joke that someone is actually praising non white Dr's, and defending them. It is true that in India their schooling is about 2 years less than an american Dr would receive. It is quite a joke that they only have a year of internships.(typical american internships run about 2 years)

I am in school to be a nurse (horrible field to get into right now), they are importing 3rd worlders to fill the "nursing shortage" that is supposedly happening. I can tell you countless Nursing grads are having a horrible time finding a job. It takes some of them YEARS to get one. These are highly qualified individuals, but guess what? Their jobs are being taken away as well.

Tis not just these "lowly" field jobs that are being taken by 3rd world scum. These "people" are your DR'S, NURSES, DENTISTS, you want to be treated by them? I sure as hell don't.

good girl... now that you have a nursing education you can probably heal yourself when you need medical attention...in fact since you will be unemployed anyways you can volunteer your time to cure white patients who are dying to their last breath but wont take assistance from a third world scum doctor. good luck!

If you want a white doctor, vote with your wallet - go out and pay more for a white doctor!

In Canada it's a little different with payment, so I vote with Canada's wallet and select white doctors and dentists

I worked in personal injury litigation once where we dealt with certain "minorities" and the clients always, with the occasional rare exceptions, unapologetically chose doctors from their own racial group. If they can do it, so can we!

Aljazeera was never 'under Saddam Hussein' - they're an international news agency headquartered in Qatar.

This right here makes the most sense. Europeans control a lot of stuff in that part of the Middle East ( a lot of the businesses etc... in Dubai). I checked Aljazeera out and noticed how similar it is to the BBC website. It obviously isn't controlled by arabs. There is usually an explanation such as this behind most unusual things I see in the world today.

Location: Sitting on the front porch of my plantation overlooking the rolling hills of Kentucky

Posts: 550

Re: Sick of Indian doctors

GRRRRRRRRRRRRR............I feel the same way. Our local hospital has promoted Indian doctors & I am beyond sick of it! I did make a point of having ALL White nurses when we had our baby in the surgery room. But I have a nice doctor that understands how I feel. She is a little younger then me, White, blonde & cute. So with our next baby, I will request the same thing. I don't care how smart Indian doctors are....my kids will have WHITE doctors!