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Topics: 1. What’s new for you from Liz & Diana [7:57]2. Shout Out: Ciarra of Popular Paleo and Robb Wolf’s podcast [25:04]3. This week in the Paleosphere: Peganism [30:04]Listener Questions: 4. Follow-up on a previous podcast question [36:13]5. Tips for dealing with dermatitis [38:49]6. New to paleo; how do I get started. [48:46]7. Vital Choice’s Randy Hartnell: Omega-3s in seafood [1:02:48]8. Diana and Liz’s homesteading tip of the week. [1:04:59]

Liz Wolfe: We like to have you on. I think we’ve found a pretty solid guest host for when we need you, so.

Diana Rodgers: {laughs} Awesome.

Liz Wolfe: Your only responsibility now is to always be available.

Diana Rodgers: I will be as available as much as I can. I love it.

Liz Wolfe: We’re going to give you a beeper..

Diana Rodgers: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: And when we beep 911, that means we need you for the podcast.

Diana Rodgers: Awesome.

Liz Wolfe: So this is 167. I’ll do the quick welcome real quick. Oh, I did the welcome, that’s what that was, in case you were wondering. Ok, so let’s do the sponsors. Today’s podcast is sponsored by Vital Choice, offering wild and sustainably harvested seafood and other nutrient dense healing foods. Consider them not only for yourself, but for others, because they make a perfect holiday gift. Choose from wild salmon and halibut samplers, smoked salmon samplers, organic food gift packs, and gift certificates. Save yourself the stress of last minute shopping, and select your gift items now. Vital Choice will send to anyone on your list on the date of your choosing. Orders of $99 or more ship free. This year, give the gift of health from Vital Choice.

Diana Rodgers: I have sampled their things. I haven’t ordered from them, only because I …

Liz Wolfe: You live on the east coast? {laughs}

Diana Rodgers: What’s that?

Liz Wolfe: You live on the east coast.

Diana Rodgers: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diana Rodgers: But I have tried, I’ve been to a Weston A. Price conference where I’ve tried some of their stuff, and I think they’re an awesome company.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diana Rodgers: They did some giveaways for me with my other book, and I think they’re going to be helping to support my next book coming out. So they’re an awesome company, I highly recommend them.

Liz Wolfe: Really good people. It’s kind of like, for me especially where I live in the country.

Diana Rodgers: Mm-hmm.

Liz Wolfe: It’s almost like I found a local farmer who will ship. You know?

Diana Rodgers: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: They’re just good people.

Diana Rodgers: Right.

Liz Wolfe: Alright, cool. Well I believe they’re still offering our listeners 15% off any order using code BALANCEDBITES. Our next sponsor is Pete’s Paleo. The 21-Day Sugar Detox is great for your body in many ways, but it can be difficult for your life too because you’ve got to feed yourself right. Pete’s Paleo makes delicious, seasonal, ready to eat meals that strictly follow the 21DSD program. They’re shipped directly to your door, ready to go. Let Pete’s Paleo help you with your 21DSD success, or for that matter, your success eating healthy, eating paleo, eating real food, eating the Wahl’s protocol, eating a gut healing protocol, whatever you need. And don’t forget that their bacon is also 21-Day Sugar Detox approved, and sugar-free. The coupon codes, which are also listed on the podcast posts at DianeSanfilippo.com and RealFoodLiz.com are 5OFF21DSD, which is a coupon code for $5 off 21DSD meals, and 5OFFPETESPALEO, which is a coupon code for $5 off regular Pete’s Paleo meals.

I keep Pete’s Paleo on hand all the time. I don’t eat them every single day, because I’m not doing any kind of program right now, but they are great to have around. Even if you are mostly doing your own meals, breakfast, lunch, and dinner, some days you just come home and you’re like, nu-huh, I’d rather not eat than cook for myself. That’s yet another time it’s amazing to have their stuff around.

Diana Rodgers: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Alright, so. Let me just make a quick comment, before we get into personal updates. It is almost the holiday season. I guess it is the holiday season once this airs, because we record usually about at least a week ahead of time.

I’m so happy that Christmas music is on. I love Christmas, although I hate the way we skip over Thanksgiving for Christmas, because I love Thanksgiving.

Diana Rodgers: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: But listen. This is, I don’t know if I’ve said this before on the podcast, but my nightmare is when that horrible song starts playing. And look, mute it for the next 30 seconds if you don’t want this stuck in your head.

Diana Rodgers: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: But it’s the song that goes. “Simply. Having. A wonderful Christmas time.”

Diana Rodgers: Oh, yeah. That’s really bad.

Liz Wolfe: That’s the worst holiday song ever made. And I challenge anyone to let me know what song might be worse than that.

Diana Rodgers: Yeah. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: I mean, that’s one of the Beatles, right? That’s like Paul or John or somebody?

Diana Rodgers: I don’t know.

Liz Wolfe: Ugh. I just think it’s terrible.

Diana Rodgers: I have to disagree with you on the Christmas music stuff. I’m a little more of a scrooge, and I don’t partake, at all.

Liz Wolfe: I like the old school stuff, you know?

Diana Rodgers: I like Christmas movies.

Liz Wolfe: Oh, me too, but I don’t let myself watch them until at least the two weeks, week before Christmas.

Diana Rodgers: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: I just sit there waiting.

Diana Rodgers: A Christmas Story is great.

Liz Wolfe: The best.

Diana Rodgers: What’s your favorite?

Liz Wolfe: A Christmas Story and It’s a Wonderful Life are my favorites. I also love the really old school Christmas Carol.

Diana Rodgers: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: Old, old one. My dad and I loved that one. That’s kind of our thing. I’m sorry, I’m not a huge fan of Christmas Vacation. My husband thinks it’s the funniest movie in the world, and there are definitely some funny parts, but I would definitely take Christmas Story any day.

Diana Rodgers: Let me tell you something about actual real life Christmas vacation when you have children.

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diana Rodgers: It is not fun at all. Because they can’t really go outside a whole lot, because it’s freezing. And so they’re stuck inside for a whole week. At least, summer vacation, they can go run around outside and I just kick them out. But Christmas break, and February break, which is even worse except I’m going on vacation, so I’m excited about that. It’s already booked.

Diana Rodgers: Yeah. But, anyway. Christmas break, they do get some new toys, so it’s kind of entertaining for a day or two.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diana Rodgers: And then after that, it is just really difficult, I think. And it’s really long. So that’s what I have to say about Christmas break. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: It’s an extended period of time with people you care about, which can completely screw up your affection for them {laughs}.

Diana Rodgers: {laughs} Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: Totally. I’m with you. I got it. I got it. We’ve got family coming in for Christmas. And for Thanksgiving. So, it should be fun. And I did put out my holiday menu, my free Good Food for Bad Cooks holiday menu recently.

Diana Rodgers: Yes.

Liz Wolfe: I think I’ll probably send it out at least one more time before Christmas. It’s probably the only time I will have sent it out before Thanksgiving. I think it’s going to be late now by the time this podcast airs, but I’ll probably send it out before Christmas, so just get on my email Monday lists. And I’ll send that to you.

Liz Wolfe: I got some good feedback on it. It’s for people that don’t have the same skills that maybe many people in the paleo community have.

Diana Rodgers: {laughs}

1. What’s new for you from Liz & Diana [7:57]

Liz Wolfe: It’s mainly stovetop. It’s easy. I’m just saying. You want it. So anyway. What else is going on with you, Diana?

Diana Rodgers: Well, I guess speaking of kids, I had just the craziest week last week. It sort of took over my whole life. My daughter, my 8-year-old daughter fell off a couch. Basically, we were at a friend’s house, and we had this, the grownups were upstairs having dinner, and the kids were down in the basement watching movies. And she was goofing around, and slipped off the back of a couch, and somehow landed on her neck.

So, the next thing I know, my dinner gets interrupted by this horrific screaming. She’s just absolutely hysterical, and she can’t move her neck.

Liz Wolfe: Oh my god.

Diana Rodgers: Right. So, basically, long story, we are sent in an ambulance to Children’s Hospital in Boston, and I basically lived there all of last week in the neurosurgery department, because it was really inconclusive whether or not there had been any spinal cord damage, and she was in a lot of pain, and she was in a neck brace, and, it was just super scary. And when you have kids who have an urgent, acute medical situation, nothing else in your world matters, and you're living in a nightmare the entire time.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diana Rodgers: So, thank goodness it ended up that she was totally fine. They did one final x-ray that showed there was no damage. They took the collar off. And the next day she woke up completely fine! I mean, she went from, we weren’t sure if this was going to be a lifelong issue, to the next day, she was a regular kid again.

Liz Wolfe: Wow.

Diana Rodgers: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: And the doctors just couldn’t tell you what was going on necessarily? They did not leave you with a lot of hope, it sounds like.

Diana Rodgers: Well, they were pretty sure it was just a musculature thing. They weren’t sure if there was any ligament damage. They said, you know, kids bounce back. It’s very unlikely a child will have a long-term issue from, what am I trying to say, from a little injury like this. And this happens to kids, and they turn out just fine. And I couldn’t believe it at the time, and then boom, it happened, she was just fine. But it couldn’t have come at a worse time, because I also happen to be in the most stress ever right now, only because I have all my book edits coming in, I’ve got a pretty intense course load right now with the graduate program I’m taking in nutrition, and just life. So, anyhow. That was pretty intense, and now things are a little bit back to normal, though my sleep is still not on track. I woke up this morning at 3:30, and I couldn’t go back to bed. Hopefully in a few weeks, once the book goes to print and the classes are over, I’ll be able to sleep again.

Liz Wolfe: Will you though, really?

Diana Rodgers: {laughing} Do you know me too well?

Liz Wolfe: Uh, yeah. Come on now. I’ll sleep for both of us. Did you know that was what you were signing up for when you decided to have a family? {laughs}

Diana Rodgers: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: Oh. That’s too emotional. I mean, this is a bad comparison, but recently my dog was so scary sick. Didn’t want to move, had to be carried down the stairs. And I was sure we were going to lose him, and it was like my world was falling down. I didn’t care about anything. But then you tell somebody, “my dog doesn’t feel good,” and they’re like, well sack up buddy! You know? But it is, it’s terrifying when somebody you care about .And when it’s your kid? I cannot even imagine the magnitude of that.

Diana Rodgers: Yeah, but tell me about your dog, because I saw some pictures? What’s going on, what happened?

Liz Wolfe: Oh yeah, so I wrote about this a, I don’t know, it will be a week or two weeks ago by the time this airs. I sent this out as kind of an extra email Monday during the month of November. What had gone on, it’s this whole long thing. And by the way, if you sign up for email Monday, you’ll get access to the archives, because I send out posts that don’t go up anywhere on my blog. Because I appreciate you when you sign up, and so I try and take care of you that way. So you can get access to this post, if you want to read the whole story.

It was basically the story of how the conventional veterinarian kind of missed something, and maybe even possibly misdiagnosed something last year with our dog that repeated itself again within the last couple of weeks, and we kind of figured out maybe something else was going on.

So that’s all kind of cryptic, but basically what happened was we were sure he was suffering from pancreatitis. We a bout with this last year, where he couldn’t move, he didn’t want to walk, he was having some issues going to the bathroom. We took him to the conventional veterinarian. We do some complementary care with our pets, so we go to a more conventional vet at times, and we go to a holistic vet. There are vets I know that kind of cross those spectrums, but we haven’t really found, it’s just way more stark out here. So we’ve got the holistic one, and we’ve got the more conventional one. We love them both; they’re both wonderful.

But, we took him to the conventional vet for this, thinking we needed blood tests immediately, we needed to figure out what was going on. They tested his blood, and they diagnosed him with pancreatitis. Which is a bad thing for dogs. Very bad.

Liz Wolfe: Yes. So, we were terrified. And they sent him home with all these medications, and I came to find out that none of those medications were standard of care for pancreatitis, and just this whole mess. He did end up getting better after a couple of weeks, and of course from there you forget about it, because you have your little guy back and its fine.

That was probably about a year ago, and in the last couple of weeks, this all started happening again. But it was worse. And, you know when you start carrying a dog down the stairs, you think it’s done. So basically what happened was, I freak out, as usual, and I set up appointments, I set up the first I can get. So I called the conventional vet; we can’t get in right away. I called the holistic vet, we can get in right away. I called the veterinary chiropractor, just because I’m pulling out all of the guns, and we can get in with her right after the holistic vet.

So it just so happens that scheduling it that way is what really made the difference. We took Cal to the holistic vet, who basically said, this doesn’t look like pancreatitis. It didn’t look like pancreatitis to me last year, when you came in with this. This has something to do with the nerves in his back and forming his digestive system, basically. Kind of holistic stuff, but kind of more whole dog stuff versus just reading the blood work and saying, this is what you’ve got.

Diana Rodgers: Right.

Liz Wolfe: So, we basically said ok, well we’re pretty sure this is the end. I’m freaking out, but she’s totally calm. She’s like, you can add a couple of things to his diet to address other things that might be going on with him. Some kind of Chinese medicine stuff. But she said, just go to the chiropractor, I’m really happy you have an appointment with the chiropractor next. Did a little acupuncture treatment, sent us on our way.

So we go to the chiropractor, who ironically works a couple of days a week out of the conventional vet’s office. They’re separate, but she goes in and treats their patients that want chiropractic care for their dogs. But really, they have nothing else crossing, but that shared space, from what I can tell. So we take him in, and she looks at him, and says he is massively inflamed at this part of his back. Just, some part of his back. He’s a very long, big dog. I guess he doesn’t have a whole lot of structural support just in general, just biomechanically.

And she adjusted him, and it was a really tough adjustment. He was in a lot of pain, but she was so calm. Dr. Emily McLeod in Lee Summit, Missouri. She also works in Prairie Village, Kansas. And, adjusted him totally calmly, and all of a sudden it was like night and day. Basically, she said that what had probably been going on this entire time was that he had tweaked his back really badly. He’s a big dog, and he plays pretty hard so that can happen. And the inflammation in his back was basically informing his digestive system, just those nerves communicate there.

Diana Rodgers: Mm-hmm.

Liz Wolfe: So he had trouble eliminating, he had some vomiting, and we hadn’t told her that. She said, I want to ask if he’s had any trouble going to the bathroom, and we were like yeah!

Diana Rodgers: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: And it was because of that. We had it last year totally flipped. I’m sure that the elevated pancreatic enzymes had something to do with the inflammation in his back. Just that diagnosis had been missed, and as a consequence the year before, we medicated him for two weeks just trying to get him better, when all he might have needed was a little adjustment.

Diana Rodgers: Right.

Liz Wolfe: So he’s all better now. I mean, he was playing, going up and down the stairs. I can’t even tell you how bad I thought it had to be if he wasn’t going down the stairs by himself.

Diana Rodgers: Right.

Liz Wolfe: So the argument in my email that I sent out to folks was not, darn this conventional vet for missing this diagnosis, it was more of an argument for complementary care across the spectrum. Again, we love both of these veterinary practices. They’re all wonderful people. But sometimes, you know, sometimes you need a little extra perspective. A second opinion.

Diana Rodgers: Well, and I also think that’s a good lesson to always question things and do your own research, too.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. And look, if Cal had fallen off a couch, and clearly had an extreme amount of pain going on in his neck, I would have gone straight to the big time doctor, and been like, do the x-rays and fix this. I am in no way saying we should go straight to diagnosing a spleen chi deficiency.

Diana Rodgers: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: But it’s just something to think about.

Diana Rodgers: Yeah. There are times for all that stuff. And certainly, we’re going to follow-up with a chiropractor in a few weeks once the dust has settled a little bit just to make sure. But from all the x-rays, from her neck, everything seemed perfectly aligned.

Diana Rodgers: Oh my gosh, I’m so in love with it, I can’t even tell you.

Liz Wolfe: I am too. That book is legit.

Diana Rodgers: {laughs} I’m so excited. As you know, it comes out in March, but I’m doing so much work on it now. We’re just finishing up all the edits still. It’s funny how many questions that the editors over there at Victory Belt have for me that I just sort of assume because I’m so close to things that people know. She’ll be reading the bees chapter, and she’ll say, exactly how does this work. And I’m like, come on, that’s just how bees work. Or whatever. So it’s really helpful to me to have someone who is not close to farming read it, because that’s who I’m trying to write this book for.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diana Rodgers: So I really appreciate how detailed this one editor, Erin, in particular, is.

Liz Wolfe: She was my editor, too.

Diana Rodgers: Yeah, she’s so great to work with.

Liz Wolfe: She’s amazing.

Diana Rodgers: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: She makes heads or tails of things, for sure.

Diana Rodgers: Exactly. And she asks really good questions. So we’re just finishing all that up. It’s going into layout. I’m lining up some really great offers for people who preordered the book, and I was just sharing one potential one with you before, which is huge. So if people, I don’t know, I guess they should sign up for my email newsletter to find out for sure how to get the preorder offer.

Liz Wolfe: Yes.

Diana Rodgers: So go to my website, which is sustainabledish.com. Right in the upper right-hand corner, they can sign up for my email list, and I don’t send out a ton of emails. I barely do one a month even if that happens, just because my life is crazy, and I’m not that great at marketing. But I will be sending out information on how they can get a sneak peek at my book, and some really cool offers for anybody who preorders it.

Liz Wolfe: Sweet. Yeah, you don’t want to rely on Facebook to get news to people. Because I love Facebook, but I think the last post I sent out to like 116,000 people, Facebook tracks it for you, it got to 17,000 people.

Diana Rodgers: Oh, I have posts that go out to 35.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. Yeah. Which, I mean, that’s fine. This is Facebook. It’s a free service, and we can reach tons of people through. I’m grateful for that. But, I think sometimes people don’t understand that they follow a page, they’re probably not actually even seeing it.

Diana Rodgers: I am all about the Instagram, and I post several times a day, and I’m always posting pictures of the farm and everything, and if anyone is interested, it’s sustainable dish on Instagram. But I like it, because at least right now, I think they show pretty much everyone your posts. Is that your impression, too?

Liz Wolfe: I think they do. Yeah, I think so. P.S., are those all taken with your phone?

Diana Rodgers: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: No.

Diana Rodgers: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: They are such good pictures.

Diana Rodgers: Ok, so sometimes I do go out with my Nikon.

Liz Wolfe: Dude, nobody with the pretty Instagram pictures takes them with their phone. I mean, come on.

Diana Rodgers: {laughs} I used to take them all with my phone, and I used to take very candid, hah this is what I’m doing now.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diana Rodgers: And you know what happened? I started following some profession photographer feeds, and I follow all these amazing photographers from, mostly from the most random places, but they’re mostly from Scandinavia, or British Columbia, or Australia or New Zealand. Those are the three main areas. Maybe a little Iceland mix in there too.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} That is so random.

Diana Rodgers: I just, and they’re mostly landscape photographers, and they are incredible. And I just realized, hey, pictures look really cool when there’s a lot of fog. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm!

Diana Rodgers: And so now I go out, if it’s a beautiful foggy day, I’ll go out and shoot a bunch of pictures, and then I just sort of text them to myself throughout the day. But it really makes a big difference, and I think it’s a really beautiful way to capture the farm. I’m not romanticizing it, because I’m living it.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diana Rodgers: You know? But I think it’s a beautiful way. Like I just posted this morning a picture of just one of our farm girls, and I called it modern farm girl, and she had these dirty hands, but she’s checking her pink iPhone.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diana Rodgers: And it was just really pretty in that there was some fog behind her and everything. Anyway, huge appreciation for Instagram for showing people the posts, and for also being so inspiring. It’s my favorite medium right now to hang out on.

Liz Wolfe: People don’t post ridiculous political BS.

Diana Rodgers: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: They’re not clogging up your newsfeed with that stuff.

Diana Rodgers: Mostly not.

Liz Wolfe: Which, by the way, I have a lot of liberal friends. I’m not going to say which side of the fence I’m on, but I have a lot of friends that are very die hard liberals, and they post stuff from a site called addicting info. And that is my most earth shattering pet peeve. I can’t even speak how much it ticks me off when people mix up the word addicting and addictive. And I’m relatively sure that’s what this website has done.

Diana Rodgers: Hmm.

Liz Wolfe: Because is the info addicting? What is being addicting here? I don’t understand. So every time I say that, I have to say, I’m not even going to read that, because addicting info, that makes no sense. So if anybody could explain that to me, please do so.

Diana Rodgers: Alright.

Liz Wolfe: Alright. So.

Diana Rodgers: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} Anything else on that topic?

Diana Rodgers: I don’t think so.

Liz Wolfe: Ok.

Diana Rodgers: Alright.

Liz Wolfe: I’ll do some quick updates, since we’re kind of rounding out a lot of minutes not answering questions. We will get to questions here in a moment. But I did want to update folks. I am hard at work on the fertility program. Speaking of your book coming out in March, I can name something else that’s going to be coming out in March. {laughs} So I’m working really hard on the fertility program.

Also some changes toPurely Primal Skincare Guide. These are all good things. So just keep your eye out on the email list for that. Let’s see, what else did I want to say? That’s about it. I think we pretty much tackled everything else that I had noted here in our previous conversation. So let’s move on.

2. Shout Out: Ciarra of Popular Paleo and Robb Wolf’s podcast [25:04]

Liz Wolfe: Alright, so this weeks’ shout out. I think Diana, you had something that you wanted to shout out.

Diana Rodgers: I have three things. Is that taking up too much time? I’ll be really fast.

Diana Rodgers: By Ciarra of Popular Paleo. I just got it in the mail this morning. It’s really cool. It’s really great. You have no excuse anymore, people, for I can’t afford to be paleo.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diana Rodgers: That’s all I have to say. The photos are great, the recipes are great, I’m really excited about it. She does a really great job, and she’s a great writer. She’s very positive.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diana Rodgers: So I dig it. And then, there were two podcasts recently that I listened to on Robb Wolf’s podcast that I wanted to give a shout out to, because they’re tackling some pretty cool issues. The first one is episode 246, which just recently aired, and that is a podcast that he did from these people who have a website, SittingSolution.com. It’s all about how people who sit at a desk, and then maybe go do a Crossfit workout at the end of the day for an hour; that’s really not enough. What they have to do is get up often and move, and these guys have sort of developed ideas for people who work in offices with resistance bands, and doing some body weight workouts that kind of keep you moving throughout the day. I certainly found that, I used to do a lot more work on my feet, and now I do a lot more writing.

Liz Wolfe: And do a lot more work on your butt.

Diana Rodgers: Things have changed. Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diana Rodgers: So, I just really loved that podcast. The second one, episode 239 with Gary Wilson and Robb Wolf, and this one was called your brain on porn. And he’s got a book on Amazon called, Your Brain on Porn. He doesn’t take a moral or ethical perspective on porn. He has no judgment on porn at all. But, what was really fascinating was how porn addiction is a really major, major problem, and Robb was sort of equating that to processed food and sugar addiction. And how that food is hyperpalatable, and can sort of lead you down this road of, you’ve always had ice cream and Doritos and junk food your whole life, then eating a boiled potato and a roasted chicken probably isn’t that exciting for you.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diana Rodgers: And we’re having now a whole society of young men have been sort of hyperstimulated by online porn, and then when they get to be with a real-life woman, things aren’t happening for them. So it’s a huge problem, especially in certain countries, and they have some tips on how people might deal with it. But it was one of the best episodes on Robb’s podcast that I’ve ever heard.

Liz Wolfe: That’s awesome. If you think about the concept of hyperpalatability, all of this, and maybe he made this point in the podcast, as soon as I figure out how to subscribe to podcasts from my i-device, I will definitely start keeping up with these things.

Diana Rodgers: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} I just learned how to text properly and attach pictures to texts. I mean, the technology world is leaving me behind. But this concept of hyperpalatability is all kind of evolutionary engrained. When we find something really sugary and sweet, it’s like ,pack it in, because that’s going to allow you to survive through whatever the circumstances are that we aren’t prepared for, and reproduction is also one of those very primal drives, and now that we have computers and all of this technology to bring us naked, sexy stuff any time, all the time.

Diana Rodgers: And new genres, and yeah, a variety of girls, and every click is a different girl. And the impact on young women is really, really important to kind of wrap your head around, as well.

Liz Wolfe: Definitely. For sure. I mean, back in the day, the hunter gatherers, I’m sure they would have watched porn. I don’t know.

Diana Rodgers: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: I’m sure the centers of the brain that lit up when they would be able to be in sexual contact with someone, that was probably not all the time, any time, with a different person every time. So that’s so interesting. I’ll have to look into that.

Diana Rodgers: Yeah, and he was also mentioning there’s a real big difference between computer and magazines.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diana Rodgers: And so where our husbands probably grew up with magazines, there’s still some imagination left with magazines, and computers completely take out all the imagination.

Liz Wolfe: Very interesting.

Diana Rodgers: Yeah.

3. This week in the Paleosphere: Peganism [30:04]

Liz Wolfe: Alright, so this week in the real food paleosphere, I want to talk about peganism.

Diana Rodgers: Mmm.

Liz Wolfe: Which, you just can’t. Dr. Hyman, come on. Peganism? That sounds terrible. So, Mark Hyman, who is a very famous medical doctor, who I like.

Diana Rodgers: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: He works very closely with a lot of other people I like, as well.

Diana Rodgers: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: He wrote something that has been circulating around the paleo community for the last, at least day or so. It probably will have been circulating for at least a week or two when this episode airs. But he talked about the virtues of, I guess a plant based diet, and combining that, kind of finding that common ground between paleo and veganism. It sounded to me in this pegan article, which we will link in the blog post, that he was really just talking about quality food. He talked about eating sardines, he talked about eating properly raised animal foods, and properly raised chicken eggs, and things like that.

But the thing that just kind of made me go, meh? Was his assertion, and it was kind of implied in the article, that sustainable agriculture, which Hyman recommends, uses more water in production than plants. And this is just a huge fallacy that people fall victim to all the time. Because I would argue that mass produced plants, whether they’re organic or whatever, vegetables, fruits, etc., probably have an equal or greater water use footprint, start to finish, than grass-fed beef calorie for calorie.

So if we’re talking about a head of lettuce, the way we normally buy food, probably less water input for a head of lettuce than for a whole steer, but calorie for calorie, I just can’t imagine that this water use concern that he talks about in arguing for a paleo-ish diet based mostly around plants really holds up. And I’d be interested if anybody could help verify that.

I used a lot of Simon Fairlie’s work, who kind of myth busted a lot of the agricultural inputs, the water footprint, and the carbon footprint, and things like that of agriculture in his book, Meat: A Benign Extravagance. I cited him quite a bit in Eat the Yolks. But if anybody could verify that for me. Otherwise, to me, Hyman kind of maybe unintentionally set up really what was basically an appeal to authority. Basically, at the beginning, he said trust me, I’m a doctor and I’ve looked into this, as proof of everything that he’s saying. Which to me, is almost as much of a misstep as the cherry picking that he criticizes in his article.

There’s a ton of good stuff there, but I also think maybe he’s hanging on to some last vestiges of this whole eat less meat thing, maybe, to help make his argument. But other than that, I thought it was pretty good.

Diana Rodgers: Yeah, I think he has cited some of his health claims, but he has not cited any of the sustainability claims.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diana Rodgers: So, that’s a problem for me. So he’s just sort of assuming things here. It’s a little offensive to me, as a sustainable farmer.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diana Rodgers: Right? He just didn’t do his homework. And you want to compare lettuce to a grass-fed meat. Lettuce is an annual, lettuce is mostly water, and you’re not really getting a whole lot of nutrition out of that. I also don’t think meat should be a condiment. Right? As he says.

Liz Wolfe: Uh, no.

Diana Rodgers: Right.

Liz Wolfe: Ketchup is a condiment.

Diana Rodgers: {laughing} So, I don’t know. I was totally digging Hyman for a while, and now I’m not. Eat mostly plants, this should be 75% of your plate.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diana Rodgers: Not everyone digests plants very well. Not everybody is going to thrive on a 75% plant-based plate. Right?

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diana Rodgers: An athlete is certainly not going to thrive on meat as a condiment.

Liz Wolfe: No. And he threw out something about an ultra marathoner who ran like 50 million Ironman in 2 days, something like that, where we know that there are always outliers. There are people who can look amazing, and feel amazing, and live long lives eating nothing but Big Macs. And there are people that can run 50 Ironman’s in an hour on a vegan diet. Those outliers are just not… those again are kind of like, oh what’s the term? My brain is dead.

Diana Rodgers: N equals 1, I don’t know.

Liz Wolfe: Straw man. I don’t know what the word is for these.

Diana Rodgers: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: Appeal to authority or appeal to nature, or whatever it is. I was talking to Karen Pendergrass about this last night. It’s just one of those things where you throw some facts in, but then you throw in, ‘trust me, I’m a doctor’, you know.

Diana Rodgers: So that one is really incredible. Maybe we can link to it. That one really blew me away. I shared it with Matt Lalonde and Robb. I ended up introducing; it blew Robb away so much that he was like, who is this guy, let’s meet him. And I set up a 3-way Skype with me and Robb and the Savory Institute, and got him going on Savory, all from this Ted Talk. It’s really amazing, and he talks just about the sustainability of grass-fed meat.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diana Rodgers: So not even the health benefits of it. So anyway, I didn’t know about this article, I guess. I’ve been living in a little bit of a vacuum lately.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, of course.

Diana Rodgers: After reading it just a little bit this morning, I’m not impressed.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, I have to say the same. And everybody was really praising it, which was why I kind of wanted to talk about the flip side. We should devote an episode of Modern Farm Girls to this topic.

Diana Rodgers: Alright.

Liz Wolfe: Alright.

4. Follow-up on a previous podcast question [36:13]

Liz Wolfe: Ok, we will move on to questions, but first, I want to do a little update. I believe two episodes ago, we addressed a question from a gal who had lost her period. And, one of the details that she gave us that Diane and I totally glazed over completely unintentionally, we were kind of looking at the whole preponderance of what she had told us, and for some reason we just glazed over the fact that she was on Mirena. Which is a form of birth control with the known side effects of causing loss of period. So, as much as {laughs} I knew that at some point, I don’t always rereview the package inserts on all the prescriptions that people are taking. Also, I’m not a doctor. But I totally missed that. We kind of attacked all the other stuff that might have been going on, and completely glazed over the fact that she was on Mirena, and trust me, we heard from people about it. {laughs}

Diana Rodgers: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: We heard from a lot of people about it. So yes, absolutely, one of the side effects of Mirena birth control is loss of period. Not to say there weren’t other things to be concerned about there in the gal’s question. I still think it’s important to take everything that we said as a whole, and then just kind of stack that on top of it. Because we don’t want to blame everything on prescription medications, although of course they can contribute to problems like this, and in this case it was definitely a relevant thing that Diane and I missed. So yes, side effect of Mirena; loss of period. Any kind of hormonal birth control can mess you up. Any kind of birth control can mess you up, and that’s what stinks. I think birth control is an amazing thing, it’s often praised as this amazing advance in what, feminism, I guess?

Diana Rodgers: Mm-hmm.

Liz Wolfe: But there is a flip side there that we have to acknowledge where any time you're manipulating a natural cycle, something can go wrong. I’ve been on all many types of birth control over the years, suffered consequences of it. Even some consequences from the copper IUD. That’s why now I’m pretty quick to say, use a condom, and get tested. {laughs}

Diana Rodgers: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: I just don’t know a better way to protect yourself. Of course, there’s more to it than just that, but any time we hear a question from somebody that’s on birth control, that should set off red flags in our minds. And we won’t miss that again! Thanks for everybody’s enthusiastic notes and emails about us having missed that, because it was definitely a good point. Cool?

Diana Rodgers: Yeah.

5. Tips for dealing with dermatitis [38:49]

Liz Wolfe: So our first question is from Claire. Tips for dealing with dermatitis. “Hi guys! Love your podcast. I listen to it every week for a dedicated one hour of me time. I’m a mum of 2, a 4-year-old and a 1-year-old. I’ve been paleo-living for close to one year now, and I’m still tweaking my diet to find my optimal nutritional code. I’ve currently been suffering from what I’m sure is a slight dermatitis on my cheeks and forehead, which flares and subsides periodically throughout the week. It’s red, dry, and tight skin. All my other dermatitis on my body, upper arms, and scalp cleared once I started paleo living. I’m wondering if you have any skin tips or nutritional information about what I change to get rid of it. I’m up for anything.

Liz Wolfe: Mmm! “Which I’m getting removed ASAP after doing my own research. Skin wise, I don’t cleanse. I use a skin washer by a company called Norwex.” So what she’s probably saying is that she uses a wash cloth, a microfiber cloth. I actually have some Norwex cloths as well that I really like. “I use sukin moisturizer with rose hip oil. That’s it on my skin apart from smearing on some coconut oil when I’ve got too much on my hands after coating my veggies in it.”

Diana Rodgers: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: “I attempt to meditate once a day, especially when I’m feeling stressed and overwhelmed. Which, unsurprisingly, happens mostly when I’ve over consumed some of my yummy cakes. I struggle with binge eating at times, on my own cakes, etc., especially when I’m bored and find myself on the rollercoaster vicious cycle of eating too much, feel like crap, don’t want to exercise because I feel like crap, then eat more paleofied foods I know I shouldn’t be eating, mentally beats self up. I’m sure I’m not the only one out there like this.

I’m happy and healthy and very blessed with a loving husband and beautiful friends. I’ve been doing a big Instagram cull of all the healthy living people who put” {laughing} “who put on unrealistic perfect photos that totally send my brain the wrong messages. Trying to be more real is hard when their perfect photos are subconsciously telling me that I’m not good enough. Whoa. That sort of turned into a rant.” {laughs}

Diana Rodgers: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: “Thanks for keeping it real for me. P.S. Liz, I have total farm envy. I have some chooks that I love, and one day I’ll be able to compare crazy goat videos with you. Hopefully.” That’s sweet. Alright, some additional info, I’ll just kind of skim through this.

She plays net ball twice a week, and lifts weights twice a week at her gym. Ok. So, dermatitis is tough because the reason, you can Google this and come up with 50,000 different approaches that people swear by for dermatitis is because it’s one of those things that can have a whole variety of causes; true, root causes. And that’s why it’s hard to say, do this and that should take care of it. You really just have to try a bunch of different things.

So, obviously I’ve learned my lesson about not paying attention to the word, Mirena, in a question.

Diana Rodgers: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: So, of course, I want to acknowledge hormones, and by extension, Mirena ,any kind of birth control, which is hormonal birth control. Many doctors and practitioners will claim that Mirena only releases hormones locally, but that means nothing. Because anything that’s releasing something into your body will generally affect you systemically. Hormones can impact the development of dermatitis. So I will be curious as to whether this clears up once the Mirena is out of there. I’d like to hear back on that.

So again, when it comes to dermatitis, the approach really depends on the cause, and that’s hard to pinpoint here. We’re always quick to say, ditch the nuts and seeds, or try an autoimmune protocol, maybe you’re intolerant to nightshades, maybe you need gut healing. All of these different things that could be affecting. But putting the hormonal stuff and the dietary stuff aside, given that this is just lingering on the face, it could very well be a localized issue, and not a systemic one, as perhaps the rest of her skin issues were. I believe she said that all cleared up when she went paleo.

I say maybe, just throwing some stuff out there, this could be, and you could try, it could be an imbalance of surface bacteria on the skin, rather than anything internal. Or, more likely, something that’s being used topically. We’re talking about a probiotic support externally. They’ve changed their name a couple of times, but Protection in Probiotics, or PIP Healthy Products. Google PIP Healthy Products, or Protection in Probiotics. It should come up. They have some probiotic self-care items that you might want to explore.

One of the products that I recommend in the Purely Primal Skincare Guide, and have for a very long time, is a topical probiotic spray that I used to use kind of on my shoulders and back when I was dealing with some issues there. That definitely can’t hurt. I do believe, and I should have Googled this but my internet was patchy last night. I think that the sukin moisturizer has wheat germ oil in it. Or at the very least, they have vitamin E that’s maybe derived from wheat germ. I’m not sure. You never know. But that could be affecting the skin.

I always like to swap out products, and even pay attention to things like my laundry detergent, the fabrics I’m sleeping on, hair products, anything that could make contact with that area of the face. Which can be a lot more sensitive than other areas of your body. I mean, this is one of those situations where it’s like, ok, well maybe for a couple of weeks, you’ll see how you do without nuts and seeds. See what happens. Maybe you’ll pay attention to what kinds of fabrics you’re sleeping on. Maybe you need to wash your pillow case. Maybe your hair spray. You know, try just kind of making these little tweaks, and see what kind of mileage it gets you. Do you have any ideas, Diana?

Diana Rodgers: Yeah, I was going to make some other suggestions, too. My husband also deals with this, and two things we’ve noticed with him is, he is a sugar junkie.

Liz Wolfe: Mmm.

Diana Rodgers: And I’m not talking about just a little bit, like a couple of bites. I’m talking about the full ice cream sundae that comes from the take out place in a pint container with the whipped cream, and the hot fudge, all of it.

Liz Wolfe: If you can’t have all of it, why are you going to have it at all? {laughs}

Diana Rodgers: {laughing} He can put those back virtually daily and see no affect on his body, because he’s just moving around. He’s always had 6-pack abs, just because he’s so physical. But, where he does see it is in his face. So we’ve noticed two things. One is cut out the sugar. She had mentioned a little bit about some….

Liz Wolfe: Some kombucha, I think.

Diana Rodgers: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: And the yeast in kombucha, maybe.

Diana Rodgers: And so that’s the other thing. He cut out the sugar, and was still seeing it, and he was drinking 1-2 kombuchas a day.

Diana Rodgers: I don’t remember, but he needed to cut it out. He was getting a kombucha addiction, and now that he’s not drinking the kombucha and is off the sugar; boom. His face is totally fine.

Liz Wolfe: There you go. Sometimes it’s that simple.

Diana Rodgers: So that’s what I think. The other suggestion would be maybe an internal probiotic, adding a little cod liver oil, perhaps checking your fat digestion and taking a supplement that might help with fat digestion a little bit, or just adding in some fermented beets with your meals. Those are my other thoughts. But I’ll bet your that its kombucha or sugar. And cut out that maple stuff. You know, those paleo baked goods are tasty, but they’re still sugary baked goods. And they’re like an occasional treat that I really only eat, and I know there’s sort of this guilt thing going on, but if you just cut it out for a month, your cravings for it really will go away.

Liz Wolfe: And then perhaps you can come back to it with a more balanced point of view.

Liz Wolfe: Very, very good points. Now, I’m not sure where she’s from. It sounds like; when I see ‘mum’; I’m a mum.

Diana Rodgers: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: I think it’s overseas, or Australia. Yeah. So, I don’t know, this could also be exacerbated by the weather.

Diana Rodgers: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: So I don’t know. That might be another thing to think about. But I think you have got it. And double check that moisturizer. If you’ve got any type of sensitivity that could be driving it a little bit.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. Very well could. I don’t know, I’ll have to Google it.

Diana Rodgers: Some kind of Aussie or British thing.

Liz Wolfe: We’ll Google it. Alright.

Diana Rodgers: {laughs}

6. New to paleo; how do I get started. [48:46]

Liz Wolfe: Next one. New to paleo. How do I get started. Megan says, “Hi Diane and Liz.” Well, today it’s Diana and Liz. “I have to say that I love you two. Your podcast is awesome. I just recently started listening from episode 1, so I’m still working my way up to the current episodes.” So it’s probably going to be like 2 years before she realizes her question …

Diana Rodgers: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} her question was answered. “I’ve read both of your books, and love those too. I’m a 24-year-old female at 5 feet tall weighing about 180 pounds who has suffered from irritable bowel syndrome D for approximately 10 years. I’m currently a substitute teacher, but in the fall, I’m starting my own teaching job with my own classroom. I work in special education, which can be very stressful at times. I’ve been overweight for the majority of my life, which seems to make my symptoms worse.

I’ve lost weight using Weight Watchers and calorie counting before, but I always end up going off the wagon and gaining the weight back. My gastroenterologist suggested a gluten free diet to help my symptoms, but he encouraged the use of gluten free products, like breads and pastas. I gained about 30 pounds from eating them. After my most recent weight gain, I picked up your books and it all made sense to me. I think paleo could be the way to go to get rid of my IBS. The major problem is, I don’t have support from family or doctors.

I’ve read all your information, and I need some help. What do you think I should follow to get started with the paleo lifestyle. Do you know of anyone in the Pittsburg, Pennsylvania area that I could go to for help and support. I really appreciate all you do for spreading the word about paleo.

Additional information, breakfast is a banana with almond butter, or gluten free waffles with almond butter. Sometimes I drink a protein shake. I always have coffee with sugar free creamer and stevia. Lunch depends on the day; sometimes I’m grabbing a sandwich or salad on the run if I have to travel. Occasionally, I can have leftovers from dinner or something that needs to be heated. This will change in the fall when I don’t have to travel. Dinner depends on what my mother wants to cook; I still live at home. Sometimes we have pasta or hamburgers from grass fed cows. She typically makes it a protein, a grain or starch, and an occasional veggie. I have trouble with eating late at night, too.

Currently I’m training for a 5K in September, so I try to do that at least 3 times a week, plus chasing my students at my job every day. I also try to do yoga at least once a week. I sleep at least 7 hours, but struggle to fall asleep a lot of times. I currently take a birth control pill, amitriptyline for my IBS, and a daily probiotic.

Ok. Well. There’s a lot here.

Diana Rodgers: Yes.

Liz Wolfe: But I really think all we need to tackle right now for Megan is getting her started.

Diana Rodgers: Yep.

Liz Wolfe: Because that’s when she’s going to be able to start putting together the pieces. Once again, we have hormonal birth control.

Diana Rodgers: Mm-hmm.

Liz Wolfe: And, refer a bit to what I said before. Especially for people with autoimmune issues. I think that’s probably a big deal.

Diana Rodgers: Yep.

Liz Wolfe: It doesn’t mean you should go off of it, it just means you should do some digging on that.

Diana Rodgers: Yep.

Liz Wolfe: What are your thoughts on this? Earlier today, I put out a little call in one of the blogger networking groups I’m in, about maybe somebody in Pittsburg, but I haven’t gotten an answer yet. I do know Jill Ciciarelli, the author of the, oh shoot I can’t think of it now.

Liz Wolfe: Yes, fermented. So she has a practice called First Comes Health, and she is wonderful. I don’t know if she’s taking clients, but that might be somebody to look for. But what are your thoughts on getting her started?

Diana Rodgers: Well, I have a few thoughts. One is, I think that she really needs to make a mental commitment that this is really going to be something that she’s going to stick with. And one of the books that I recommend to a lot of my clients is Women, Food, and God. Have you ever read that? Or heard of it, Liz?

Liz Wolfe: Sorry, I was muted for a second.

Diana Rodgers: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: I have heard of it, and it is on my list.

Diana Rodgers: So, Women, Food, and God is fantastic. It talks a little bit about overeating. You don’t have to believe in God in order to find some value from this book. You can get it on audio book. So it’s just something she can listen to while she’s going for a walk or something. And it just kind of helps, I think, get you mentally prepared. So I think there’s the getting mentally prepared, and the actual execution.

Liz Wolfe: I love that. Can I just say how much I love that point, by the way?

Diana Rodgers: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: Because sometimes people just jump in, and they have their list of instructions, and they have no mental preparation completed, and that can be the game changer.

Diana Rodgers: Right. Especially with something that’s as dramatic a change as paleo from something like the standard American diet. If paleo seems too hard, you just give up and never go back. So, with your friends and family, I would just say, I’m eating gluten free, or your doctor. You don’t have to say paleo.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, she’s lucky. She has a doctor that’s telling her she has to eat gluten free. I mean, done! {laughs}

Diana Rodgers: Right. And the same with the previous person, where she was eating a lot of paleo baked goods. I certainly, when I first went gluten free, because I have celiac disease and I was diagnosed when I was 26, so it’s been a few years since I was 26. I first started with all the gluten free substitutes I possibly could, and I got very addicted to gluten free bread. I just ate the gluten free version of the crappy standard American diet, and I think it’s really easy to get pretty close to that with paleo foods, too. So where on seeing her breakfast is a banana, or gluten free waffles. You really have to completely rethink; oh, and a protein shake. So Liz, did I talk to you. I think we were talking about this on a previous podcast where I just really don’t advise any sort of beverage shakes for people who are trying to lose weight.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diana Rodgers: Because it’s just way too easy. Everyone will over drink their calories. So I think beverages are great for people who want to gain weight, but not for people who want to lose weight. So starting your day with good quality protein, so not sugar. So bananas and waffles are sugar. And you want to start with protein. And then, I see a lot of these “my mom cooks dinner, I grab sandwich or salad on the run.” You’re living at home, I know you have a stressful job, but there are a lot of people with a lot more on their plate making it work. So, one of the benefits is, you don’t have kids.

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diana Rodgers: {laughs} Right? And you're probably not working too much on the weekends. So you need to commit. And maybe that means meeting with a therapist, too, and really getting some of the underlying issues down of why you keep rebounding. But the commitment means you have to take one day a week and really prepare your lunches. And if your mom is going to always be making pasta or something like that, then you need to be making your own meals.

Also, the Nutritional Therapy Association has a website, and that’s the school that Liz and I went to. They’re not necessarily paleo, but they’re very whole foods focused, and they might have practitioners in the area. Or you could find someone who does distance. I will be taking clients again probably in January. I’m taking a break at the moment. But seeing someone one-on-one in person is really helpful, especially for weight loss.

Liz Wolfe: Especially if you just don’t know anybody that can support you.

Diana Rodgers: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: Whether it’s in person or you find a community online, which as she gets more into the paleo community, she’ll find places to go. But, I’m going to take a little bit of a more gentle approach.

Diana Rodgers: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Just to offer the other side of things. And here’s the thing. Nobody is wrong in this scenario, right? There’s that; hey, you need to commit, you need to go through the steps, they’re going to allow you to be successful, which is the side that you're on right now, and then there’s the side that I’m going to be. I’m going to be a little more gentle, and neither one of us is right or wrong. It’s a matter of, and Megan as you’re listening to this, which way of thinking motivates you?

So is there kind of really strict, and less, not that you, Diana, are really strict. But I’m kind of thinking that less compromising mentality where it’s like, Whole 30, you make the changes, you go through these very important motions until you reach the goal that you want, which I don’t think is necessarily what you're advocating, Diana. But just kind of that side, where you feel like, I’ve got to do this, I’ve got to commit, boom, boom, boom. If that motivates you to do well, then that’s the road you should take.

But if you need to hear something like, look. Make one change. Make one change now that you feel confident with. Like, instead of grabbing a sandwich or a salad, have 10 baked sweet potatoes, and grab that on the run. I mean, I’ve eaten a bowl of soup in the car before. I don’t recommend it, but you can make anything an on the run type of meal.

Diana Rodgers: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: So, take a sweet potato with you. And eat that like a banana. There’s a million different small changes you can make. Like, coffee with breakfast with sugar free creamer and stevia. If you’re going to have coffee, maybe have some really nice, high quality heavy cream in it. Or coconut milk. Or something that’s not going to make your brain say, wait, I was supposed to get some sugary calories just now .I’m going to make you keep craving more, because I didn’t get what I expected.

Diana Rodgers: Right.

Liz Wolfe: There’s some kind of mechanism there that I think Matt Lalonde talked about forever ago in his academy of Lions seminar.

Diana Rodgers: Yes.

Liz Wolfe: I don’t know what it is. Some kind of, basically molecular memory. Where your body thinks it’s going to get something and then it doesn’t, so it keeps asking for it.

Diana Rodgers: Yep.

Liz Wolfe: Just not being afraid of real food. I mean, if you’re the single change at a time type, like I need to talk to people, I need to dip my toe into it. That’s cool too, as long as you’re not just beating around the bush and trying to avoid making real change.

Diana Rodgers: I don’t think necessarily it works for everybody, and I’m getting a feeling just from reading her note here that a cold turkey approach is great. But I do think the mental commitment needs to be there.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diana Rodgers: So that was really where I was trying to get. But actually, in my first book, Paleo Lunches and Breakfasts On The Go, I have a whole baby steps approach. Which means, you know, go gluten free for a month, and then slowly transition where maybe your breakfasts are paleo and the rest of the day isn’t, and then your breakfast and lunch is paleo, and the rest of the day. So, I’m totally on board % from where you were coming from. Sorry if I didn’t make that clear. But I just do think, especially with women, almost all the women that come to see me have some kind of disordered eating. Whether that’s a full blown eating disorder or just, you know, some kind of emotional issues around food. And so, just really kind of working through that and making a commitment that she’s going to take charge of her life when it comes to food.

Liz Wolfe: I love that. I love that. I totally took that to another extreme from where you started, for sure.

Diana Rodgers: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: But you know, when you stumble across the paleo thing, a lot of times, the first things you’re exposed to are these really, kind of gung-ho 30 day things.

Diana Rodgers: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: Which are fabulous for some people.

Diana Rodgers: Yeah. Especially guys.

Liz Wolfe: Yes. Guys do great with that.

Diana Rodgers: They love it.

Liz Wolfe: People that like regimented type of things, where they need their instructions, and they need to go through the motions to learn.

Diana Rodgers: Right.

Liz Wolfe: I discovered that that wasn’t me, for sure. And with this whole deal; oh, shoot, now I forgot what I was going to say. Dang my brain is just gone.

Diana Rodgers: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: It is gone. I’m telling you.

Diana Rodgers: Yeah. My transition was totally; I mean, I was gluten free for 10 years before I went paleo. And just going gluten free, at the time, going from standard; and I was even “healthy”. I was eating low fat, I thought, whatever. I wasn’t drinking a case of diet coke a week and eating tons of chips. I still was very conscious about my eating. But just going gluten free, from that, for me was a huge change in my life. So I get it, for most people steps are the most effective. Especially, a lot of times, for women.

Liz Wolfe: I think knowledge is power, too.

Diana Rodgers: Yep.

Liz Wolfe: Not just necessarily about what you're going to eat, but also kind of being that information junkie. Picking up the Paleo Mom’s book, which deals with autoimmunity, picking up paleo lunches and breakfasts on the go. Because when you have that firm foundation, where you start to really understand your body, and what you're going through and maybe why, its way more empowering. Than just being like, well I’m supposed to be doing something, but I keep screwing up.

Diana Rodgers: That’s why it’s a New York Times’ best seller. It’s because it really takes you through in a very visual way, an easy to understand way, the why’s on why paleo is so important.

Liz Wolfe: Definitely.

Diana Rodgers: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: We actually are rounding out an hour, already.

Diana Rodgers: Awesome.

Liz Wolfe: I don’t think we even need to tackle this third question, if you’re cool with that.

Diana Rodgers: We’ll do it next time. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Alright. Sweet.

7. Vital Choice’s Randy Hartnell: Omega-3s in seafood [1:02:48]

Diane Sanfilippo: I recently sat down with Randy Hartnell, the president of Vital Choice, to have him answer some of the most frequently asked questions we get about seafood. Here’s a portion of my interview with Randy.

Diane Sanfilippo: Alright Randy. Let’s talk about Omega-3s. What do you want to tell our listeners about Omega-3s in seafood?

Randy Hartnell: Great subject. Well, you know, life evolved in the ocean. And as amid a background of these amazingly bioactive molecules, including omega-3s, EPA and DHA. We hear EPA and DHA, or omega-3s referred to as sort of the healthy fat, but boy they are so much more than that. They are the foundation of our very beings. Every cell in our body requires them. Every synapse in our brain requires DHA to process the electrical impulses. DHA was the molecule that allowed us to transform photons into electrical energy. So, I think we’ve kind of lost touch with just how incredibly vital these marine lipids are. And you don’t get DHA in walnuts or flaxseeds or a lot of the other things that are marketed as omega-3s. They only come, basically, from the marine food chain.

You can convert; people can convert some of the shorter chain omega-3s into the longer ones, EPA and DHA, but we don’t do a very good job of it, especially in this country because we have so many competing things going on in our system, based on the foods that we’re eating. So it’s really critical that people get EPA and DHA in their diets, one way or another.

Diane Sanfilippo: Fantastic. That’s exactly the same information that we’ve been teaching our listeners for years now, and we definitely are proponents of getting your omega-3s from whole seafood, and definitely not turning to walnuts or flaxseeds for that source. So thank you for sharing that information.

Randy Hartnell: You’re very welcome.

8. Diana and Liz’s homesteading tip of the week. [1:04:59]

Liz Wolfe: Ok, so we’ll wrap up the episode. We’re going to do some quick tips though, since we’ve got the two homestead people on the line here.

Diana Rodgers: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: As usual, when we don’t have Diane to moderate all the hashtag stuff, because it’s basically hashtag math to me, which I hate even more than regular math. We’ll skip that, we’ll let the hashtags ride for another week, and we’ll just do our homestead tips here. So, Diana.

Diana Rodgers: Yes.

Liz Wolfe: Going into the winter, what are you doing to keep. Just give me one tip, to get everybody ready on the homestead.

Diana Rodgers: Read. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Oh my gosh. {laughs} Whoa, you just blew my mind girl.

Diana Rodgers: Read books. Read. Get a whole bunch of books. Get them from the library if you need to, if you don’t want to spend a ton of money on books. But I think you should buy my homesteading book, of course.

Liz Wolfe: I think so too.

Diana Rodgers: But there’s just so much out there, and just planning, and making some plans for a garden that is not too overwhelming, that’s something that’s manageable. Or if you’re going to do chickens, really get your ducks in a row. Read up on everything you need to know about them. Or beekeeping. Or whatever it is. There are so many great books out there. Winter is the time when we do a lot of reading.

Liz Wolfe: I love it. I just saw a meme, or a shareable on Facebook that said, every time you watch a reality TV show a book dies.

Diana Rodgers: Yeah {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: I’ve killed a lot of books. But I’ve also read a lot of books. So hopefully my karma is pretty much even at this point.

Diana Rodgers: What’s your favorite, it doesn’t have to be a how to, but what’s your favorite sort of agrarian book.

Liz Wolfe: Oh my gosh. I don’t know. Somebody recommended the Wisdom of the Radish to me, and I really enjoyed that one.

Diana Rodgers: Oh I hadn’t read that.

Liz Wolfe: It’s pretty, it’s good. It’s light, and it’s kind of one of those where I was like, ok, I can take on a new challenge.

Liz Wolfe: I’m pretty sure. That’s a good idea. We should do a Modern Farm Girls episode on our favorite books.

Diana Rodgers: We should.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. Alright, sweet. Well I’ll skip my homestead tip, I think that was a good one. I got nothing. Right now all I’ve got is, you’re animals just basically need water, something to eat, and shelter. You don’t need to go to Home Depot and buy a thousand dollar shed that is Fort Knox to take care of your chickens. They just need a place to go {laughs}.

Diana Rodgers: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: They need some water that’s not frozen, and it doesn’t matter how you keep it unfrozen. If you float a ping pong ball in there, if you have something plugged in to keep it warm. Whatever it is. Animals don’t need much. Don’t lose the, what, forest for the trees.

Diana Rodgers: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: Alright, well that’s it for this week. You can find Diana at sustainabledish.com, and join me, Liz, at https://realfoodliz.com/. Join our email lists please, so you don’t miss anything. If you’re up for it, subscribe to the Balanced Bites podcast and leave an iTunes review. See you next week.

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