Neil Williams wrote:
> The problem is that with packages like gnome-devel and gnome-core-devel
> (re: anjuta) >50% will require SOME of the Recommended packages. As a
> long term anjuta user, I would estimate that <5% of all users need ALL
> Recommended packages.
>
> What is the anjuta / gnome-devel maintainer meant to do in this
> situation? S/He isn't psychic, there is no way to know which Recommends
> are going to be a waste of space. That is up to the user, so let the
> user decide - on a per-package basis.
> Policy does not mandate that ALL Recommends: are to be installed. The
> new default makes Recommends: disappear completely - there would be no
> difference between Depends: and Recommends: just like there is a
> perception of no real difference between Recommends: and Suggests: at
> the moment.
Look at what happens when I install anjuta with the new default enabled:
joey@kodama:~>sudo apt-get install --install-recommends anjuta
Password:
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
The following extra packages will be installed:
anjuta-common autogen automake bluefish doc-gnome-hig exuberant-ctags
glade-gnome gnome-common gnome-core-devel gnome-devel gtk-doc-tools
gtranslator libatspi-dev libgail-gnome-dev libgail-gnome-module libgbf-1-0
libgbf-1-common libgdl-gnome-1-0 libgtkhtml3.14-dev liboobs-1-dev libopts25
libopts25-dev libpango1.0-0 libpango1.0-common libpango1.0-dev
libsoup2.2-dev libvte-dev libvte9 libxslt1-dev libxtst-dev
x11proto-record-dev
Suggested packages:
libgtkmm2.0-dev libgnomemm2.0-dev devhelp-books glade-2 glade-gnome-2
automake1.10-doc weblint-perl weblint at-spi-doc ttf-kochi-gothic
ttf-kochi-mincho ttf-thryomanes ttf-baekmuk libsoup2.2-doc
Recommended packages:
ctags
The following NEW packages will be installed:
anjuta anjuta-common autogen automake bluefish doc-gnome-hig exuberant-ctags
glade-gnome gnome-common gnome-core-devel gnome-devel gtk-doc-tools
gtranslator libatspi-dev libgail-gnome-dev libgail-gnome-module libgbf-1-0
libgbf-1-common libgdl-gnome-1-0 libgtkhtml3.14-dev liboobs-1-dev libopts25
libopts25-dev libsoup2.2-dev libvte-dev libxslt1-dev libxtst-dev
x11proto-record-dev
The following packages will be upgraded:
libpango1.0-0 libpango1.0-common libpango1.0-dev libvte9
4 upgraded, 28 newly installed, 0 to remove and 92 not upgraded.
Need to get 13.3MB/14.8MB of archives.
After unpacking 42.8MB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue [Y/n]?
Since apt lists Recommends in its own area, they are not indistinguishable
from Depends (or Suggests). Also, if I decide I don't want ctags, I can
hit "N" and run
joey@kodama:~>sudo apt-get install --install-recommends anjuta ctags-
....
Need to get 13.2MB/14.7MB of archives.
After unpacking 42.6MB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue [Y/n]?
Thereby saving that crucial .2 MB of disk space that all installers
of GNOME IDEs certianly care about. ;-)
> Recommends: because maintainers will lose any reason to put things in
> Recommends: and will end up putting everything in Depends: just as many
> current Recommends: are actually just Suggests:
> Overlap between Recommends: and Suggests: is FAR LESS of a problem
> than blurring the lines between Recommends: and Depends: as WILL
> happen when people get used to the new default and assume that
> everyone has all the Recommends: anyway.
Don't these two statements contradict each other?
> Has anyone even considered the extra bandwidth / code churn / mirror
> requirements of adding hundreds of unwanted packages to every
> new installation?
To reiterate, recommended packages will not be installed by by d-i until
all the recommends are sane. In d-i/tasksel we currently have to track
recommends and hardcode the sane ones on while ignoring the other ones,
which is tedious and failure prone.
--
see shy jo