NBC in, ESPN and TNT out in 2015

When we moved where we are (an urban area south of fort worth), they promised that uverse would be available, took 2 years, but they did eventually activate it. So the whole neighborhood was Dish or Direct, with AT&T DSL for internet and regular AT&T phone.

Well DSL is no longer supported, we keep pushing through to make our stuff keep working. They're trying to force everybody to u-verse through alternative means, because it's a hard sell for people like us to convert over to cable. Our neighbor made the switch and he pays almost half of what we do for phone/DSL/TV, but we wired our house for satellite and it would be a major PITA to unhook the coax matrix and switch from Satellite STB over to native cable. They left their dish in place because there'd otherwise be huge holes in the roof.

TRL, we had a 50ft mast where we used to live, and picked up the DFW stations fairly well, off the towers in Cedar Hill. But 100ft is a bit out there.

Being within LOS of the Cedar Hill Antenna Farm, I have all our TV's and my computer set up for OTA signal on demand, when we lose dish.

I have no other choice except satellite for TV ---- unless I want to put up a 75-100 foot mast and hope to hell I can zero in on the "huge" TV stations out of Tyler, TX. That's it. Cable is only offered inside the city limits of Palestine. Hell, I can't even get decent/reliable radio reception from the local radio stations. Cell phone reception? --- forget it. I carry a cheap Tracfone when I'm driving because I may need it. It does nothing but make/receive calls and texts. I carry it with me when I'm outside using the chainsaw hoping that if something happens I can get help. *fingers crossed*

But, to return to the topic --- I subscribe to the top tier simply because I want to see all the racing that's offered, when it's offered.

Found this on jayski. did a quick look and didn't see it posted anywhere else:

Fox expected to take first half of NNS schedule in 2015: The rights to the first half of the Nationwide schedule have not been publicly announced, but NASCAR chairman Brian France let slip in a Tuesday conference call with reporters that there will be Nationwide races on Fox Sports 1. "We will have both Cup and Nationwide on FOX Sports 1 at some level," France said during the call. ESPN currently broadcasts the entire Nationwide schedule.(Associated Press)(7-23-2013)

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I think we all expected NNS to be on FS1, but looks like Cup races too. Like NBCSN it won't be a problem for me, but wondering about the millions of other people it may affect. Risky move if you ask me. You could put a Cup race on ESPN2 and reach more households than NBCSN or FS1 at the moment. I doubt both networks will reach the ESPN2 threshold by time 2015 comes around. While france did say "at some level" meaning could just be practice or qualifing NBCSN has said they will have cup races. If NASCAR will let NBC put cup races on NBCSN, my guess is we will see cup races on FS1 as well.

Found this on jayski. did a quick look and didn't see it posted anywhere else:

I think we all expected NNS to be on FS1, but looks like Cup races too. Like NBCSN it won't be a problem for me, but wondering about the millions of other people it may affect. Risky move if you ask me. You could put a Cup race on ESPN2 and reach more households than NBCSN or FS1 at the moment. I doubt both networks will reach the ESPN2 threshold by time 2015 comes around. While france did say "at some level" meaning could just be practice or qualifing NBCSN has said they will have cup races. If NASCAR will let NBC put cup races on NBCSN, my guess is we will see cup races on FS1 as well.

Again, the problem with "ESPN threshold" is that ESPN didn't really want NASCAR. NASCAR wanted to be on ESPN much more than ESPN wanted to air NASCAR.

Sometimes, you've got to turn lemons in to lemonade.

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No I understand. I just find it funny Nascar allowed so many Cup races on the NBCSN. I can understand a few, just not majority of them. Especially when they didn't want any cup races on ESPN2 which has about 10 million more homes than NBCSN.

No I understand. I just find it funny Nascar allowed so many Cup races on the NBCSN. I can understand a few, just not majority of them. Especially when they didn't want any cup races on ESPN2 which has about 10 million more homes than NBCSN.

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One of the biggest problems with ESPN was that they would move races to ESPN2 in the middle of the race or would move races, without a moment's notice, to ESPN2 or ESPN Classic. Not to mention cutting race broadcasts short for College Football pre-game shows while, at the same time, not airing the beginning of the same races because of College Football over-run and post-game shows. That was ESPN's m.o. back then - they played musical chairs with programs - moreso with NASCAR and IndyCar than any other sport.

I have a pretty good memory. ESPN was shit those first two years. I'm glad their race coverage has improved but NASCAR was and still is a low priority for ESPN. They care about football (pro and college), baseball and basketball. I'm not disagreeing with you - just putting it in perspective. NASCAR stepped in because ESPN was jerking NASCAR fans around and the fans raised holy hell about it. You think the amount of complaints people had about TNT are bad - you haven't seen anything. Just keep one thing in mind - TNT had the best coverage those first few years of the current (FOX-TNT-ESPN) TV package.

Hey TRL, do you remember the 2007-2008 ESPN days? I think we spent every weekend on here steaming between the terrible coverage and the races being moved to a truly obscure channel that almost nobody gets. That brings back memories.

One of the biggest problems with ESPN was that they would move races to ESPN2 in the middle of the race or would move races, without a moment's notice, to ESPN2 or ESPN Classic.

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One of the best things about ESPN in the sport was the fact that they were there, regardless of which of their channels they broadcast the race. That was a great thing IMO. Before that, we used to only see a shortened version or only excerpts from the race. I think that it only goes to show that regardless of the how this sport is broadcast, we'll continue to bitch and moan about every little thing. Some more than others.

ESPN & TNT decided not to renew with NASCAR: According to a Sports Business Daily report, ESPN and Turner ditched NASCAR not the other way around. ESPN and Turner Sports each informed NASCAR in early July that they did not intend to bid on the available television rights packages, Sports Business Journal reported Monday. The rationale was similar for both organizations declining television ratings made NASCAR a less attractive property. Turner, according to the report, "ultimately decided that more NASCAR races weren't worth the investment." ESPN, meanwhile, "had soured on the sport because of declining TV ratings, an aging fan base and a tough ad sales market." The report casts a somewhat negative light on both NASCAR apparently abandoned by two high-profile broadcast partners and NBC Sports, which will pay $440 million per year for rights through 2024.(Sports Media Watch)(7-30-2013)

I'll bet this will result in another increase in my Time Warner Cable bill

One of the biggest problems with ESPN was that they would move races to ESPN2 in the middle of the race or would move races, without a moment's notice, to ESPN2 or ESPN Classic. Not to mention cutting race broadcasts short for College Football pre-game shows while, at the same time, not airing the beginning of the same races because of College Football over-run and post-game shows. That was ESPN's m.o. back then - they played musical chairs with programs - moreso with NASCAR and IndyCar than any other sport.

I have a pretty good memory. ESPN was shit those first two years. I'm glad their race coverage has improved but NASCAR was and still is a low priority for ESPN. They care about football (pro and college), baseball and basketball. I'm not disagreeing with you - just putting it in perspective. NASCAR stepped in because ESPN was jerking NASCAR fans around and the fans raised holy hell about it. You think the amount of complaints people had about TNT are bad - you haven't seen anything. Just keep one thing in mind - TNT had the best coverage those first few years of the current (FOX-TNT-ESPN) TV package.

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Trust me andy I am no new fan . I remember those days too, even the days of CBS, TNN, ESPN, ABC.. The FOX, TNT, NBC Contract was something I think many fans wanted and needed at the time. Like I said before the new contract wont be any sweat off my back, but I think many will have a problem with it. I just hope NASCAR knows what they are doing. Well I guess they have billions that says they do...

ESPN & TNT decided not to renew with NASCAR: According to a Sports Business Daily report, ESPN and Turner ditched NASCAR not the other way around. ESPN and Turner Sports each informed NASCAR in early July that they did not intend to bid on the available television rights packages, Sports Business Journal reported Monday. The rationale was similar for both organizations declining television ratings made NASCAR a less attractive property. Turner, according to the report, "ultimately decided that more NASCAR races weren't worth the investment." ESPN, meanwhile, "had soured on the sport because of declining TV ratings, an aging fan base and a tough ad sales market." The report casts a somewhat negative light on both NASCAR apparently abandoned by two high-profile broadcast partners and NBC Sports, which will pay $440 million per year for rights through 2024.(Sports Media Watch)(7-30-2013)

I'll bet this will result in another increase in my Time Warner Cable bill

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Yep! NBCSN won't come cheap to those that don't have it already. Also those who do have it, if NBC starts to ask more for it be prepared for the channel to be moved to a sports package of some kind. Unfortunately I think eventually all cable will be purchased in packages. You will have your locals package, network package, sports package, kids tv package, and movie packages. You will just pick and choose what packages you want.

Also, if this is true then NASCAR did one hell of a job tricking NBC that their is a demand for their product. I think if NBC knew they didn't have competition they probably wouldn't have paid $4 billion for 10 years. Also that article could be misleading. Nascar could have told both those companies what the starting bid was knowing what NBC was willing to pay and those two may have said thanks, but no thanks.

I'm waiting for Bill "Hurricane Proof Hair" Webber to melt down again at Loudon.

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Hey, do you know the real story about what happened at the hotel? All I could find was that he was shouting at the hotel staff about something. Seemed to be a bigger story there. Oh well, he's a magician now. I doubt NBC is bringing him back. If they do, they should play "Magic Man" by Heart whenever he appears on TV.

NBC was willing to pay a premium because they believe NASCAR will help them
1) Get NBC Sports Network into more homes
2) Get higher carriage fees for NBCSN

Both NBC and Fox are using the same strategy -- getting prominent, and ideally exclusive, sports properties to drive growth in # of homes and carriage fees.

ESPN is already everywhere and already has the highest carriage fee in the industry.

As NBC Sports and Fox Sports grow their footprint, sports like NASCAR are literally worth more to them than ESPN because they have 20+ million homes they can still hope to get into. Fox did the same thing with UFC with a similar strategy. They are hoping NASCAR and UFC fans who lack the channel get pissed and call their cable company and demand it.

ESPN & TNT decided not to renew with NASCAR: According to a Sports Business Daily report, ESPN and Turner ditched NASCAR not the other way around. ESPN and Turner Sports each informed NASCAR in early July that they did not intend to bid on the available television rights packages, Sports Business Journal reported Monday. The rationale was similar for both organizations declining television ratings made NASCAR a less attractive property. Turner, according to the report, "ultimately decided that more NASCAR races weren't worth the investment." ESPN, meanwhile, "had soured on the sport because of declining TV ratings, an aging fan base and a tough ad sales market." The report casts a somewhat negative light on both NASCAR apparently abandoned by two high-profile broadcast partners and NBC Sports, which will pay $440 million per year for rights through 2024.(Sports Media Watch)(7-30-2013)

I'll bet this will result in another increase in my Time Warner Cable bill

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This explains why so many races are on NBCSN. NBC trying to turn NBCSN into the "home of motorsport" with F1 and IndyCar and with nobody else major bidding for the second half of the season, they probably had more leeway than usual in making demands to NASCAR.

One of the best things about ESPN in the sport was the fact that they were there, regardless of which of their channels they broadcast the race. That was a great thing IMO. Before that, we used to only see a shortened version or only excerpts from the race. I think that it only goes to show that regardless of the how this sport is broadcast, we'll continue to bitch and moan about every little thing. Some more than others.

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I was talking about when ESPN came back in 2007. As good as Ultimate NASCAR on ABC was, NASCAR itself was second priority to everything. They pre-empted NASCAR for tennis one time.

Yep! NBCSN won't come cheap to those that don't have it already. Also those who do have it, if NBC starts to ask more for it be prepared for the channel to be moved to a sports package of some kind. Unfortunately I think eventually all cable will be purchased in packages. You will have your locals package, network package, sports package, kids tv package, and movie packages. You will just pick and choose what packages you want.

Also, if this is true then NASCAR did one hell of a job tricking NBC that their is a demand for their product. I think if NBC knew they didn't have competition they probably wouldn't have paid $4 billion for 10 years. Also that article could be misleading. Nascar could have told both those companies what the starting bid was knowing what NBC was willing to pay and those two may have said thanks, but no thanks.

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If NBC Sports Network is moved up to a higher package, expect customers to raise hell when the Olympics come around. This is the main reason I think NBCSN is protected property.

La Carte's actually gaining momentum - that's probably going to happen before every basic cable network is split off in to packages. Obviously, cable would like to force people to purchase multiple packages - but in the day and age of Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime and other streaming media outlets, they're going to have to eventually give customers what they want or lost a lot of business.

NBC was willing to pay a premium because they believe NASCAR will help them
1) Get NBC Sports Network into more homes
2) Get higher carriage fees for NBCSN

Both NBC and Fox are using the same strategy -- getting prominent, and ideally exclusive, sports properties to drive growth in # of homes and carriage fees.

ESPN is already everywhere and already has the highest carriage fee in the industry.

As NBC Sports and Fox Sports grow their footprint, sports like NASCAR are literally worth more to them than ESPN because they have 20+ million homes they can still hope to get into. Fox did the same thing with UFC with a similar strategy. They are hoping NASCAR and UFC fans who lack the channel get pissed and call their cable company and demand it.

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NBC seems to like creating "niche" networks. You have SyFy and it's appeal to general weirdness, NBCSN with motorsports and hockey and MSNBC as a progressive talk show channel. I suspect these networks make more money than people think because they can market certain networks to certain blocks of advertisers. Kind of like niche content websites. Sites like ours (RACE22), Speed51 and other short track websites probably do better than most websites that cover NASCAR Sprint Cup racing.

So are those the average ratings of any given race on each network? You didn't give much of an explanation of what this is.

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They are the average ratings by network. The average ratings of all races on that network. I think it's pretty self explanatory. Read the note at the bottom of the chart. Better yet, read the article that the link I posted takes you to.

If NBC Sports Network is moved up to a higher package, expect customers to raise hell when the Olympics come around. This is the main reason I think NBCSN is protected property.

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I agree with you to a point. Come Olympics time there will be a demand, but how big of a demand? Enough for cable companies to pay a high premium? I think not, especially for a sporting event that comes every 2 years. Also you have to figure in that NBC will have the olypmics on other networks as well: USA, Golf, MSNBC, CNBC... So while there will be more coverage on NBCSN, how much more that a cable company or satellite company would break down and give into what NBC wants. Again this is all if NBC tries to be greedy and expect a high premium for their channel. For all we know they might ask for a reasonable fee, but after paying $4.4 billion for Nascar rights that may not be acceptable.

my argument really isnt against NBCSN. It is really against NASCAR and how they potentially screwed their fans. NBC and FOX want to put cup races on an obscure network and to do so theu out bid themselves and over paid nascar for the rights. So nascar sold out their fans for the almighty $$.

So what are we saying? Is NASCAR no longer going to be broadcast on FOX like it has been. I had assumed that it was business as usual for FOX, the only exception that the Truck Series will now be on their new channel which is nothing more than the Speed channel. Maybe I'm wrong on that. As far as NBC goes, why would it be a problem that the races are televised there? What races are going to be broadcast on NBC's sports network which is nothing more than the old Versus channel? I had that channel on DirecTV and now have it on Dish Network.

my argument really isnt against NBCSN. It is really against NASCAR and how they potentially screwed their fans. NBC and FOX want to put cup races on an obscure network and to do so theu out bid themselves and over paid nascar for the rights. So nascar sold out their fans for the almighty $$.

So what are we saying? Is NASCAR no longer going to be broadcast on FOX like it has been. I had assumed that it was business as usual for FOX, the only exception that the Truck Series will now be on their new channel which is nothing more than the Speed channel.

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The few changes set in stone so far are that Daytona 500 qualifying moves from the broadcast network to FS1. The Sprint Unlimited also moves from FOX to FS1 in 2014 and 2017-2022. Some of their 13 regular season races will move to FS1 as well but they haven't decided which yet. If it's anything like their 2001-2006 contract they'll have two or three races on FS1 like they did FX.

As far as NBC goes, why would it be a problem that the races are televised there? What races are going to be broadcast on NBC's sports network which is nothing more than the old Versus channel? I had that channel on DirecTV and now have it on Dish Network.

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Having more races on broadcast networks should be a good thing, especially if NBC does use the races as lead-ins to Football Night in America like they said they plan to. I guess the problem with NBCSN is that it's only in 78 million homes, but several years ago it was in only 63 million so it's gaining traction. I know I've always had Versus/NBCSN on Bright House as well.