They already Comic Con exclusively exclusive alternate art Planeswalkers that are selling for $100+ each, why not throw JTMS into a FTV to make another exclusive item even more exclusive.

No one is going to sell this at MSRP. Wizards is so blissfully ignorant of how much their cards are worth that they’ll just throw a foil JTMS reprint into a set, tag it as $40 MSRP, and think it will all be hunky dory.

Ben

What the hell?

Brom

Love it. Great move by Wizards.

Andy Dondes

Oh god he´s back.

Jeremy Keyes

nice, now anyone will be able to play epser stoneblade in legacy that’s all we need

guest

let them play their esper stone blades. emrakul does not mind ^__^

guest

Anyone CAN play esper stoneblade in legacy. They just have to have money first. Money is the only thing that usually prevents people from going deep.

Fbn Dnl Schlr

And that is stupid. Magic is a card game you egomaniac. I don’t play Legacy. I simply can’t afford it. A format that has a high entry barrier as Legacy will die eventually. Take a look at Vintage.

guest

no legacy will not die. that is such an ignorant thing to say. if you play magic and keep playing magic for years to come you will either a) build up a collection of cards formidable in legacy or b) build up enough cards to trade into legacy. you all need to stop crying about legacy being too expensive. anyone with a decent job or a decent trade binder can get into legacy. it’s that simple.

Fbn Dnl Schlr

I just said it will die eventually because it’s just to expensive for a GAME (even with the prize money). I don’t know when, but if Wizards keeps the Reserved List alive and don’t reprint some of the format’s staples that could be reprinted without getting rid of the Reserved List, it will die. A game lives if it’s played. It dies if it’s not.

Of course I could trade into legacy. I own 7 EDH decks among others, so it would be possible. But I don’t want to at these prices for 4-ofs.

Random Comment

Just because you don’t, possibly your play group, is not a sampling of the larger picture. I am ‘buying into’ legacy because I prefer it’s play style and cards available to modern, standard and EDH. It’s the most honest of them all in terms of what to expect and the best available card base and most consistency. I only have to ‘buy’ once to get in and that’s enough, modern has a similar tag, but the cards will rotate eventually and is still a shade lower in power to legacy. EDH is a combo format if there ever was one but is not as social as sold. It’s very anti-social and counterific. I would rather own one legacy deck than 7 EDH decks any day of the week. Standard, well has too many issues to list here.

Fbn Dnl Schlr

I have a play group of 5 people meeting regularly, and it is accepted in our group to not run infinite combos in our EDH matches. In fact, when someone sees that a infinite combo exists in a game, it is handled like Possibility Storm activation. One time after a resolved Warp World there was (among other permanents) Kiki-Jiki, Luminate Primordial & Intruder Alarm on the battlefield. Instead of the controller of Kiki-Jiki nuking all creatures on the field, we put the Intruder Alarm on the bottom of it’s owners library and the owner revealed cards from the top until he could put a different Enchantment onto the battlefield. As the Intruder Alarm was in my deck, since that game I replaced it with another card to not have that happen again, even as it wasn’t my Kiki-Jiki. I thought it would be possible to play Intruder Alarm as a defensive card, but it only pushes combo. Definitely not my playstyle.

I once played EDH in my local store twice though. First match someone Diabolic Revelation’d for 8, then the other players scooped and when I refused to scoop (scoop in EDH? why?!) I got kicked Sadistic Sacrament’d twice. Is that a fun way to lose? Of course not! Why would someone want to win like that?! Who expects someone to play you ever again when you win that way in EDH?! In my second match there we all lost to a infinite army of Sliver tokens. These were the most boring EDH matches I played so far and I will never play with these 2 guys again and I am going to think twice before playing EDH in this store again. It’s a shame, because these guys should be exceptions, but as far as I can tell by online forums, these spike-type of EDH players are common.

I understand your arguments of buying in Legacy, as it’s more consistent as Modern or Standard where you can replace half of your deck half a year. In fact, if there’s a regular tournament format I would invest in, it is Legacy as it’s the most interesting for me (simply for the fact that it has the most archetypes). And it’s only in the eternal formats (Vintage, Legacy, EDH) where control is actually playable.

But why is Legacy so damn expensive?

Random Comment

The reserved list and time since last printing, plus the demand of certain cards in modern. A decent deck for the most part isn’t that expensive, in terms of spells, but land can run you up to 1600-2000$. Which half that is in the original duals and the other half in onslaught fetches. I mean, in deathblade, the deck itself is around 600$ without jace, each card averaging 30$ a piece (vendillion clique, bob, vindicate, thoughseize upping the cost curve, which 3 of the 4 are modern staples and heave demand). Modern is why it’s so damn expensive.

Fbn Dnl Schlr

Okay, I get that argument. The rest of the decks are indeed comparatively cheap. But in every tier one deck there are some cards you just can’t buy (some even of availability reasons) at list prices as a sane person. So the question asked should be better “why is Magic so damn expensive?”. I mean, it’s a game and dies when no one plays it anymore.

One of the other problems of Legacy I see is that Wizards can’t fully support a format in which the mana base can’t be reprinted…

Random Comment

In deathblade, I have gotten all the cards so far at the tcg low, in near mint. Getting them at list price is easy as long as you shop smartly.

Magic is so damn expensive because of the limited print runs of certain cards, the rarities and the fact it is a collectible card game. For example, Force of Will has only see print in one small set, which had a 4-6 month window and wasn’t part of a ‘block’ as we know it today.

It’s a game, will it die? 20 years of existence and it healthier than ever, says no it’s not going to die. But there is always a chance, I’ll grant that. But new generations are being taught to play all the time. A local brings his 7 year old daughter in and she plays with legacy fish (cheap, $$ wise version), but is learning the basics and the game. As long as this happens, people are introduced to the game through word of mouth and the internet, it will continue to stay healthy. It’ll be like monopoly and baseball cards mixed together.

I agree, legacy may be a dying format unless something is done about that reserved list. But I’m ok buying into it at this point personally, because cost wise, most of the cards will continue to rise in value and I’ll be able to sell them off at some point if needed to collectors and others. But EDH will do a lot to carry the prices as these cards are used heavily in them where players have access to them. So I can always use them or sell them. (Personally I’ll keep them for playing with friends and not worry about a tournament for it if legacy dies as a format).

Fbn Dnl Schlr

I hesitate with investing in Legacy cards even if I would use them in EDH. With modern staples I say it’s okay as it’s supported by Wizards good enough for the cards to hold their value. But I may be wrong as they in fact could be reprinted in thousands (like the shock lands were). But Legacy staples to me mostly start at 50 € average where Modern ones seem to start at 15 € average…

I never said Magic will die but Legacy as a format will eventually. Vintage is only one step away from abyss and it will happen to Legacy sooner or later. But Magic in total is really healthy, even here in Germany. There is no store known to me which can survive on Magic alone, but it’s a major part of the most popular nerd store in my area (Funtainment Shop).

What would help the prices and Legacy itself in my opinion is if they would allow golden border cards in tournament. This of course floods the market with tournament playable cards. Most golden border staples already sell at half the price of the original card so it would push Legacy once more and of course would lower the entry barrier for guys like me who are willing to invest in cards, but not at these prices althought they probably will rise in value.

The current most important question to me: Should I buy a FtV 20? I know our store owner well and he is going to sell it around 200 Euro (=260 USD) but on the internet I could pre order one for 180 Euro (=240 USD). Only Jace could be worth that amount… but will he really? I don’t know!

Random Comment

yeah he will, swords to plowshares will be in heavy demand over the long haul also. I decided not to get a FTV, because I would rather spend 240USD on 2 jtms than one and having foil isn’t important to me though. I would rather play legacy and buy those cards than buy the special editions.

Fbn Dnl Schlr

As a side info, FTV: 20 is down to 150 Euro in Italy and Spain now for preorder (= 200 USD). My thought process is similar. The cards are just not worth it, even if it’s a foil The Jace.

Fbn Dnl Schlr

Down to 120 Euro per set and 80 Euro per Jace. Worldwake’s Jace costs around the same. So no reason at all to buy a FtV:20 …

guest

modern staples like tarmogoyf and bob? and the fetch lands? please. modern is just legacy jr. there is really no debate here. also i am getting 4 of these FtV’s for MSRP since my buddy has some sweet hook ups so either way this new FtV is kick-ass for me!

Anonymous

WOW….JTMS

Arcnova

WOW… just when i thought wizards of the coast couldnt get any stupider, they decide to reprint jace the mind sculptor, and put him in a set with 19 other great cards that they will sell for $40

so you get a $150 card for $2

i think im gonna quit this game now

Brom

Foil jace is $800. This jace is foil as well. Your math is wrong. Also that quitting threat is extremely dumb. Magic is giving this as a gift to players. Why are you mad at the chance of turning 40 dollars into nearly 1000?

lonewolf

Good luck finding it for 40$ thanks to this card only price will be around 200$ if not more

chris

Agreed, cheapest Pre order I have seen so far as put this at $250. There is no way you will be able to get FTV 20 for the MSRP.

Jamie

Not no way. I got one for MSRP. $39.99 pre-order.

risu

14 other cards, and the msrp isnt usually what they go for , but its not the same as the orig cause of the foiling process.

Thattechnicalgay

ftv 20 has 20 cards in it compared to the 15 of most other ftv sets

risu

yeah i saw that after i commented

guest

what does reprinting jace have to do with you quitting the game? 1) you can always use him too, and 2) he is pretty easy to kill

Pat Whitbeck

this cant be real. this is impossible. why dont they just go ahead and reprint black lotus for the first card in the box?

Fbn Dnl Schlr

Stop whining and adapt. Jace has never been on the reserved list.

And comparing him to Black Lotus? Wow. Are you really that dumb?

Fbn Dnl Schlr

You sir, are dumb. Stop whining and adapt. Comparing it to Black Lotus? U serious?

Amaru

No, not again

Zombie

Worst. Idea. Ever.

Joshua McTiernan

What does this do to the price??

Zombie

It shouldn’t do much, other than make a Foil JTMS much easier to obtain.

I’d reckon the price will probably be the same if not a bit more than a regular non- foil JTMS.

Though, JTMS being in FTV 20 will probably make each individual box cost much more than MSRP, unless online retailers decide they don’t want to completely strangle the market like they did with Modern Masters.

IAmGnalres

If modern masters in any indication of how the price will fluctuate, anyone who got these (non-foil) will be safe. Goyf stayed around the same price. I would imagine this will too.

However, this is an awesome move by Wizards and it shows they are concerned about playing the game rather than having these as collectibles. JTMS is one of the more expensive staples in Legacy and one of the only ones that is NOT on the reserved list. Printing Goyf in MM and now this shows they are doing everything they can (outside of taking cards off of the reserved list) to make the formats playable.

guest

totally agreed. the game is far more important than the cute collectable aspect. don’t get me wrong i am both collector and player, but WotC should be solely focused on the card game being healthy and fun; the collectable aspect should be little to no concern to them. i think this is definitely a step in the right direction imo

Sam Chi

Ooooh, in M20 they should reprint JTMS and give the other cycle of PWs four abilities,too, because WIZARDS IS FRACKING CARZY ANYWAY!!!!!!!!!!!

Fbn Dnl Schlr

Plus the cards will be worth nothing at all if Magic becomes a simple collectable game.

cfranks

Love that this is in here. Thank you wizards.

kanevivi

well when I saw this I was like. cool my female friend wants one. she can get it. and now I remember he is the only one to beat my deck…. I must stop her!

Chrisisgolgari127

what the hell wizards.

Levi Warren

From the Vault: Power 9. “Came up with a great idea for getting more people to enjoy the game, we’re going to reprint the power 9!” “Won’t that unbalance the game and make the thousands of less powerful cards largely useless?” “Yeah, but we’ll make a crap-load of money off of it! You see, we’ve spent years convincing the fan-base that we don’t care about the second-hand market and those suckers bought it! See, now that the second hand market has driven the price up, we’ll swoop in and make another killing by reprinting the power 9! We’ll make sure all of the boxes sell out this way!” “But you’re disrupting the balance of the game by making the power 9 available to anyone with 40 dollars, there’s a reason why they haven’t been reprinted. The promise that certain cards will never be reprinted is paramount to keeping people interested in the game. If you reprint everything, the old cards will become irrelevant.” “But Harry, M-O-N-E-Y.” “Yeah, I guess you’re right.”

CJ

Wizards don’t make much of these boxed sets compared to the regular cards, so thinking the did it for the easy cash is a bit daft. 90% of people will be lucky to get a single box of these giving wizards less than $40 each (wholesale price is probably $20 to $30, printing / packaging costs another $5). Consider the number of people who buy one or more boxes of regular product at $100 dollars each and you see where the real money is coming in. Wizards don’t see any of the secondary mark up, so other than printing ‘power’ cards to drive up demand on a set that is so limited it is guaranteed to sell out anyway, there is no ‘money’.

On the other hand there is a well known path from caual->standard->modern/limited that players progress on, and one of the major limitations on people making the progression is money, 95% of which is given to the secondary market so people can play an eternal format with expensive cards in it. Are they going to reprint fetch lands sometime soon? You betcha, for the exact same reason.

Fbn Dnl Schlr

It was just a matter of time until they reprint him. He’s not on the reserved list. Wizards did NEVER promise they won’t reprint JtMS at all. Live with it.

Levi Warren

Wizards reprinted him as a simple and blatant ploy to make money and although it’s a card that’s hurtful to the game (not that it isn’t fun), they are putting him in the hands of legacy, commander, and CASUAL players again. Jace in no way helps the game, the reprint helps Wizards.if they reprinted him in a core set, at least the price would come down and they could continue to ram power creep down our throats like they’ve been doing. That’s not what they’re doing though, they’re making Jace available to more players than to which he was available before. He will once again be tucked into collector’s binders, hidden in closets and stockpiled by those who run Stoneblade. Jace doesn’t become more or less powerful, he simply makes money for Wizards and perpetuates the paralysis that Jace already brings to some unfortunate formats. But I guess we’ll just have to…”live with it”.

Fbn Dnl Schlr

FTV20 has Jace as it’s USP, so Wizards is going to make money with it. But it’s also a kind of image factor as players worldwide finally see Wizards is willing to push some of the extraordinary prices of Legacy down to reasonable regions. A Eternal Masters (with reprint of Force & Wasteland as Mystics) would surely push control and aggro-ish numbers of decks in Legacy (because combo is just cheaper to play now), but I doubt it happens soon.

But I am also glad I am maybe finally able to afford a Jace, let alone a foil one. As a EDH player myself I think it’s not like all blue EDH decks will be running around wild with a Jace now but I hope to see him a bit more in the future. And smash his face if he’s on the other side of the table as planeswalker rarely live long enough to untap with them.

Jace Must Die

great just what the game needed, one of the most broken cards ever, being easyer to get. Why Wizards Why?????

Ultramegalord

I’m stoked myself! ill be upset if it goes too high and or gets sold out aug 23 is my bday so this is my present to my self ;P

Levi Warren

So this is how freedom dies, to thunderous applause.

Zombie

If by thunderous applause you mean people fighting to the death over the last boxes of FTY: 20 in retail stores, then yes.

Sean Mclorie

nice more jaces on the market hopefully these sell for the non foil version so i can hear less whining at legacy night about AGUU~ i cannot find a set of jaces <_< just liquidate this guys cost hes a staple same with goyf make them like 20$ so magic isnt about look at my fat wallet YOU SEE IT YOU SEE MY MONEY INVESTMENT IN THIS GAME YAH I CAN PAY TO WIN <_<

Jamie

You can’t pay to win. I see decks under $100 take out the bigger players all the time. It’s based on skill more than anything. Also, dropping prices would hurt those who put time and money into collecting those valuable cards. For that matter, most eternal formats can be played, and I mean played competitively, for under $200. Casually, under $50. I don’t have Goyfs or Jaces, and don’t really plan to get any aside from the one Jace in my FtV, but I fully understand the pricing and reasoning for not reprinting them. You know, aside from them being broken and Jace only useful in Vintage/Legacy.

Zombie

I would just like to point out that putting Jace, the Mind Sculptor in From the Vault: Twenty, has caused preorders of each box set to be sold for over $200 each. So much for your $40 MSRP Wizards, you silly, naive people.

guest

Any speculation on what this Jace will be worth guys?

Stuart Weis

I don’t know about anyone else, but lots of stores in my area aren’t selling these FTVs they are using them as prize support

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