Author
Topic: Light of Olympus to Fantasy Craft (Read 3507 times)

It does to me. People in the world are effectively aware of iconic classes and specialties. Not metagaming. The actuall thought process of characters in-setting. "Elves are ussuallly..."

When you make an elf archer scout it is flat out more powerful that a human archer scout in terms of raw numbers and combination of benefts. What keeps those characters in balance is farmer Joe and orc Thraz can both look at those two characters commin' over yonder hill and have little or no idea what kind of threat the human may offer, and have a pretty dang good idea how the elf is gonna operate. The elf does give something up to get his perks and it's NOT flexibility. Flexibility does not have a lot mechanical value at the single character level.

Quote

You as a player of a high elf are never going to gain an element of surprise against the enemy by being a gladiator soldier specialising in close quarters combat instead of an archer scout.

If that is true, then frankly the game master is being a jerk. Because the character in-setting shouldn't have divine fore-knowledge. The GM is tailoring encounters to the needs of play, but there is another layer at work and that is world coherency. In a world where there are very few elf gladiators, your character should not be routinely anticiparted by the opposition.

When you make an elf archer scout it is flat out more powerful that a human archer scout in terms of raw numbers and combination of benefts. What keeps those characters in balance is farmer Joe and orc Thraz can both look at those two characters commin' over yonder hill and have little or no idea what kind of threat the human may offer, and have a pretty dang good idea how the elf is gonna operate. The elf does give something up to get his perks and it's NOT flexibility. Flexibility does not have a lot mechanical value at the single character level.

Quote

You as a player of a high elf are never going to gain an element of surprise against the enemy by being a gladiator soldier specialising in close quarters combat instead of an archer scout.

If that is true, then frankly the game master is being a jerk. Because the character in-setting shouldn't have divine fore-knowledge. The GM is tailoring encounters to the needs of play, but there is another layer at work and that is world coherency. In a world where there are very few elf gladiators, your character should not be routinely anticipated by the opposition.

I really need to see an example of this element of surprise in play because what you're describing is something that while it makes sense at a narrative, literary level, doesn't sound like it'd reliably translate into an actual play experience.

For example's sake, imagine the party in question are an archer scout, a gladiator scout and a gladiator soldier all of which are high elves

[3.5] +4 to Strength, Dexterity, or Wisdom, -2 to next highest ability[1] Large, Reach 1[3] Base Speed 60'[.5] Body of a Beast: Your encumbrance loads increase by 50% (above and beyond the increase for being Large-sized) and when you take a Run action, your move multiplier increases by 1 (typically to ×5). When you make a running jump, your jump distance increases by 25% (rounded up).

[-.5] Banned Checks: You may not make Acrobatics/Break Fall or Athletics/Climb checks[-.5] Fatal Falls: Fatal Falls: You suffer 1 additional damage per die from falling and the damage gains the keen (20) quality.[-.5] Hands of a Man: Despite your size, you wield weapons as if you were one size catagory smaller.

Or for a more generic D&D centaur[3.5] +4 to Strength, Dexterity, or Wisdom, -2 to next highest ability[1] Large, Reach 1[3] Base Speed 60'[1] Improved Stability

[-.5] Banned Checks: You may not make Acrobatics/Break Fall or Athletics/Climb checks[-.5] Fatal Falls: Fatal Falls: You suffer 1 additional damage per die from falling and the damage gains the keen (20) quality.[-.5] Hands of a Man: Despite your size, you wield weapons as if you were one size catagory smaller.[-1] Iconic Classes: If your level in any base class is higher than your level in either Keeper or Scout, your starting action dice decrease by 2.[-1] Iconic Specialties: You gain your Specialty’s bonus feat only if you’re an Archer, Artisan, Druid, Fighter, Mystic, Nomad, Physician, Ranger, Tribesman, or Warden[1.5] Natural Attack: Gain Kick II and Trample I

[3.5] +4 to lowest of Dexterity or Charisma, –2 Wisdom.[1] Agile Defense: Your base Defense increases by 1.[1] Your base Speed is 40 ft.[1] Enlightened Impress: Your maximum rank in Impress increases to your Career Level + 5. Only the highest bonus from any single enlightened ability may apply to each skill.[-1] Iconic Classes: If your level in any base class is higher than your level in either Courtier or Burglar, your starting action dice decrease by 2.[1] Iron Gut: You gain an insight bonus equal to your Constitution modifier with saves against disease and poisons (minimum +1).[.5] Natural Attack: You gain a Gore I natural attack (see page 235). If you gain a natural attack from multiple sources, the attack’s grade becomes equal to the highest single grade + 1 per additional benefit granting the same attack, to a maximum of V.

Faun’s CunningPrerequisites: Career Level 1 only, Faun.Benefit: Your Charisma score rises by 1. You may use your Impress(Cha) bonus in place of your Reflex save bonus a number of times per scene equal to your starting action dice. Finally, Martial Artist becomes an iconic class for you.

Faun’s LogicPrerequisites: Career Level 1 only, Faun.Benefit: Once per session, you may request a hint for which the GC gains no action dice. If the GC refuses, you gain 1 bonus action die. Further, you may substitute your Intelligence modifier for your Wisdom modifier when making skill checks a number of times per scene equal to your starting action dice. Keeper becomes an iconic class for you.

Call of the WatersPrerequisites: Faun or Triton.Benefit: When taking a Taunt or Threaten action, you may substitute your Impress (Cha) skill and bonuses so long as your target is not deafened. You may give up the standard result for either of these actions to cause the target to become sickened a number of times per scene equal to your starting action dice.

Dance of the FlamesPrerequisites: Faun.Benefit: When taking an Anticipate or Tire action, you may substitute your Acrobatics (Dex) skill and bonuses so long as neither you nor your target are blinded. Further, you gain a +2 insight bonus with all skill and Knowledge checks made using Acrobatics and your base threat range with Acrobatics becomes 19–20.

I think that what Morg is referring to is the ability to easily camauflage yourself because of expectactions. Not a FantasyCraft example, but the first 3rd Ed D&D character I remember playing was Half-Orc Wizard - yes statswise I sucked mightily, however. give that for my gear I had a loincloth with a nondescript set of pouches (one of which was a mages pouch), and a Battleaxe - characters in the setting assumed that I would rush them with said big axe, not toast them into oblivion with a fireball.

However I do think discussion on this warrants a seperate thread for debating, not cluttering up this one any more.

[3.5] +4 to Strength, Dexterity, or Wisdom, -2 to next highest ability[1] Large, Reach 1[3] Base Speed 60'[.5] Body of a Beast: Your encumbrance loads increase by 50% (above and beyond the increase for being Large-sized) and when you take a Run action, your move multiplier increases by 1 (typically to ×5). When you make a running jump, your jump distance increases by 25% (rounded up).[2] Natural Attack: Gain Kick II and Trample II[-.5] Aloof: +2 error range on Impress and Sense Motive checks targeting other species.[-.5] Banned Checks: You may not make Acrobatics/Break Fall or Athletics/Climb checks[-.5] Fatal Falls: Fatal Falls: You suffer 1 additional damage per die from falling and the damage gains the keen (20) quality.[-.5] Hands of a Man: Despite your size, you wield weapons as if you were one size catagory smaller.[-1] Iconic Specialties: You gain your Specialty’s bonus feat only if you’re an Archer, Artisan, Druid, Gladiator, Mystic, Nomad, Physician, Ranger, Tribesman, or Warden