Toproping is just another technique, to say it is stupid or should be avoided once you start leading, I just don't think that is valid. If it isn't helping you climb the way you want, then by all means stop tr'n. But I'd say that every style of free climbing can help you, weather it be bouldering, or free soloing.

Sometimes it's fun try out weird moves on a tr, I mean, climbing is still supposed to be fun, right?

I agree. I mean, what's the point of climbing for nearly everyone? It's to enjoy going up the side of something in a way that most people wouldn't think of right? Like, maybe to climb? I'm trying to learn the lead game right now, so I don't feel comfortable comparing the two, but my goal is just to climb up something, challenge myself, and have a good time. I don't really care (yet) what style I'm doing. I'll TR, Sport, Lead (when I feel comfortable calling myself a lead climber), Boulder, Or hell IDK, build some sort of insane bubble air bag system that detects when I'm falling and cushions me from a fall (The bubble things in that terrible Speed Racer movie come to mind). Just show me a wall, let me feel like it's safeish, and I'll try and climb the damn thing. I don't really see the point in excluding TR because it's not as good of a training tool. I don't think anyone here is actually training for a life or death situation where their climbing skills are going to save the world right? You just climb because you enjoy it, and get better because it feels like leveling up a video game character in real life.

Yes. We've all seen the gym noob burl his way up that 5.10 climb but have you ever seen a 5.7 climber technique his way up a 5.10? I think not.

That's the wrong comparison.

Sure, I've seen the (physically) strong gym noob burl his way up a 5.10. I've also seen the the 65-year-old climber who is nowhere near at prime strength technique his way up a 5.10. (The old guy may be climbing 1-2 number grades below his peak, because he still has the technique, but he doesn't have the strength anymore.)

So, if you're comparing and talking about high-end strength, then you also have to talk about high-end technique.

any climbing is better than no climbing is what i would tell a new person. I would also say to take your time and you will learn when you are ready. regardless if it takes 0 topropes or an endless amount of top ropes. who knows maybee they will like to climb solo and leave all ropes.

Hilarious. You know how many fearless lead climbers I've known that do dumb shit like run out on bills, cheat on their wife, live on credit cards, and smoke their lunch in a bong? Quite a few. These examples aren't men, they are children. Lead climbing has absolutely zero bearing on your manhood.

Toproping is actually the most manly form of climbing. No ego or bragging rights at stake, just you, the rock, and your best shot.