The Zeit is great, I'm lucky enough to live within driving range of Analogue Haven and I've had the chance to spend some time with it. The only problem I have with it, and the GenoQs octopus also, is that they are midi sequencers and have no CV output standard.
If I were looking to buy an analogue seq. I'd probably get another MAQ16/3. It's a great 3 track sequencer with CV. and ALOT cheaper than the Zeit($2999US)+how ever much the CV option will cost+sending Zeit to them and waiting....
But if I had nothing but midi gear this would be the greatest sequencer ever made.

I have a P3 and a seperate Midi-->CV/Gate converter and it works without ANY problems. I personally would (and did) purchase a sequencer with MORE capabilities and add the cv/gate seperately than to buy a Sequencer that is not up to my standards that has CV/Gate built in....

I'm now looking for another analog sequencer.
Had an Oberkorn 3 for a few months now - it is a great sequencer, but its a bit too complex and cumbersome for what I need.

Basically - I would like something to create sequences for my analog modular; 3 cv destinations would be nice, different gate lengths, SWING!, midi control, and an intuitive interface; something that could be used live also.

Looks like the P3 and Frostwave Fat controller are both discontinued now.

To get the full benefit of analog step sequencers at their best... each stage needs both 'trigger-inputs' and trigger-outputs, and is found only in Moog 960, Synthesizers.com Q960, and COTK 960. The synth-dot-com has extras you'll want to look into. These trigger ins and outs are designed to connect to various other devices, such a 962 sequential switch, a Moon Modular M564 sequential switch, and of course, other 960 sequencers. it's an unbeatable combo for on-the-fly and improv performance.

You'll see some 'fancy-looking' sequencers which have trigger-outputs... but I'm not aware of any that have trigger inputs... and this is a big part of the whole 'open-ended' patching which Robert Moog originally designed. Of course, you give up 'presetting/storing the notes/sequences (unlike digital)... but then digital cannot 'perform' and 'improv' like the 960's.
Think of it... Moog made 'em (when Moog was making modulars)... Synthesizers.com makes the Q960 (with extras)... and COTK make their 960... it's gotta have some perks to have that much demand.

One thing... I seem to remember you saying you don't work with CV's... only MIDI. Too bad. The 960's only work with CV's and triggers. You'd have to convert CV's to MIDI in order to use it.

IMO... MIDI has it's place... as does digital/virtual.. and analog. But by far... analog is the most fun... creating sounds and patches that no one has ever heard... not bound by menus... and you can mix and match modules from many different makers... in digital land, that would be plug-ins... If the worked, and if they were any good._________________~Morbius~
http://www.MusicByCybertron.com

I wouldn't mind seeing a good pic of the front panel... and/or any detailed 'user' points... (as in, what makes this unit superior in it's capabilities to at 960, or Q960. You can either post here , or email to me directly if you want.

I'll be doing reviews for the Moon Modular M563, and M564 (very kewel). I don't know that I need to get the Quad Quantizer which has just been released... I have the COTK (Deopher) Dual Quantizer, which, on the surface, which has several switchable modes, where the Moon Quad Quantizer looks like it's just a straight 1/2-step quantizer x4.... and I am sooooooo out of space.... just today, I moved my Ring Modulator and two multiples to the rear of my studio cabinets... and I've got three dotcom Q961's I'm not even using. Maybe I otta sell those puppies. (anyway---)_________________~Morbius~
http://www.MusicByCybertron.com

Yeah.... that's kewel. I don't really use the up/down control on my Q119's... like, hardly ever (seems too obvious for some reason)... but I would if this was a VC'd jack/switch, so I could use a voltage to change directions.

I notice that (looking at the photo) the input jacks at the bottom... (what is trig-in and trig-out on the 960)... is VC 'skip', and VC 'halt'. Obviously, just 'looking' at it, vs. actually using (and/or designing/building) it, gives one much more insight. (And also, this isn't a 'this one is 'better' than that one... nyah, nyah)... but-

I've used many of Moog's 960's... but what I have now, are Dotcom's Q960's... which are a tad more advanced (modes available for each stage = skip, normal,stop, and reset)... so you can manually set different reset-points* .... and there's more about this later. Also... I didn't see trig-in and trig-out jacks for each individual stage (1-9)... only what looks like trig-outs at the end of each row... (and bypassing the V & S trigger differences for the moment)... does that mean that the trigger outputs are at the end of each row... just like the CV outs are?

See... either I'm missing something... or- there is not way to use a trig to 'jump to' 'X' stage, from 'Y' stage (what stage you're at) while running. I see the VC-skip jacks... and the VC-halt jacks (taking those labels literally). I don't see how you could patch a trig/gate from (let's say) trig-out #1 from a 962, and patch that to cause the sequencer to go to (an arbitrary stage)... like stage #6, every other cycle (cause by the 962's cycle being triggered from the 960's stage 1 trig-out).

*I'm also trying to see how the reset-point(s) could be manually, sequentially (with sequential switches), randomly, or by using a second Q960, or a Moon Modular Trigger Sequencer, changed without using any of the controls onboard the sequencer itself.... like using specific patches to achieve the above mentioned methods. (it very well could be that the photos labels are misleading me... or- that I'm just plain ol' stupid.

The Q960 can be easily modified so that you have full control over the width of the internal osc.s pulse via patching to any voltage source... so you can do some incredible 'altering' of the Q960's normal left to right, or 1-8 stepping. You can make it run backwards/forwards, and/or in patterns (which includes skipping stages alternatively) which also can be made to vary... semi-randomly, and/or full random... and random which is from a mixture of white and/or pink noise... and/or any waveforms (though a sawtooth or ramp tends to yield more interesting, and can be melodic patterns). Additionally, using one or more manual trigger-bus(es), and/or sequential switches and/or VC-switches to alter the reset-points from a second Q960, which is 'shifted' in sync with whatever master clock you want (be it the first Q960, or an osc., or another external clock)... hell-fire... it can get to be hairy just describing it.

But- .... no 'on board' portamento... ... but it can be patched-in, and even using two or more slew-limiters, each set with separate up/down times and/or lin/expo settings, and patched-thru VC switches, so that they are only active at desired times.

But be reassured... I say all of that, knowing full well that you built that wonderful unit... in '73 (?).... and that, in itself, is quite an accomplishment.

I guess... bottom-line... those jacks at the bottom... both VC 'input' jacks?... and the V & S trig-output jacks at the end of each row... trig-outs for each row? (not individual stage?)._________________~Morbius~
http://www.MusicByCybertron.com

I've used many of Moog's 960's... but what I have now, are Dotcom's Q960's... which are a tad more advanced (modes available for each stage = skip, normal,stop, and reset)... so you can manually set different reset-points* .... and there's more about this later. Also... I didn't see trig-in and trig-out jacks for each individual stage (1-9)... only what looks like trig-outs at the end of each row... (and bypassing the V & S trigger differences for the moment)... does that mean that the trigger outputs are at the end of each row... just like the CV outs are?

The two jacks for each stage are Jump (maybe what you are calling reset) and Gate out. So you could patch the out of one stage to the in of another to get a short sequencer of sorts. The inputs are something like 1/4 volt, so any signal can be used, more or less.

The switches are sort of a buss that connects each stage to the V and S trigs at the right. There are three busses.

Fwd/Rev is, of course, voltage controlled.

Quote:

(it very well could be that the photos labels are misleading me... or- that I'm just plain ol' stupid.

Yes, very good. The labels are incorrect.

Quote:

The Q960 can be easily modified so that you have full control over the width of the internal osc.s pulse via patching to any voltage source... so you can do some incredible 'altering' of the Q960's normal left to right, or 1-8 stepping. You can make it run backwards/forwards, and/or in patterns (which includes skipping stages alternatively) which also can be made to vary... semi-randomly, and/or full random... and random which is from a mixture of white and/or pink noise... and/or any waveforms (though a sawtooth or ramp tends to yield more interesting, and can be melodic patterns). Additionally, using one or more manual trigger-bus(es), and/or sequential switches and/or VC-switches to alter the reset-points from a second Q960, which is 'shifted' in sync with whatever master clock you want (be it the first Q960, or an osc., or another external clock)... hell-fire... it can get to be hairy just describing it.

That sounds like a lot of fun. On the Clavia G2 there are some funny things the sequencers do when they are clocked in non-intended ways too.

Quote:

But- .... no 'on board' portamento... ... but it can be patched-in, and even using two or more slew-limiters, each set with separate up/down times and/or lin/expo settings, and patched-thru VC switches, so that they are only active at desired times.

Yes, slew limiter modules are more flexible, but having them built in is convenient.

Quote:

But be reassured... I say all of that, knowing full well that you built that wonderful unit... in '73 (?).... and that, in itself, is quite an accomplishment.

Thanks, but if I was going to redesign it today, It wouldn't be much different.

Quote:

I guess... bottom-line... those jacks at the bottom... both VC 'input' jacks?... and the V & S trig-output jacks at the end of each row... trig-outs for each row? (not individual stage?).

Well, the correct explanation is the left one under each stage is a VC input that causes the sequencer to jump to that stage, just like pushing the little red button. The right one is gate out.

You didn't mention the voltage controlled stage selector, or the 8 channel analog multiplexer. _________________--Howard
my music and other stuff

Well, Howard- it sounds almost as if we're nearly talking about the same functions.... 'jump' = trig-in, and so on. I can be 'open-minded'... but, regarding the labeling (trigger-in; trigger-out; CV (control-voltage); gate(s); and... uhhh what was it?.... Ah! .... where you were talking about the 1/4-volt (inputs).... I'd equate that to "Threshold".... which on the S.com modules are 1.5 volts, pretty consistently (at least for stuff like EG inputs, and similar things.
The reason I kinda lean toward labeling 'things' as to what they do, or 'are'.... is, for times when you might want to use them in ways that weren't at the front of the designers' mind, when he/she designed the noodle-bait, in question. For example: in an ever increasingly hypothetical patch, where I may want to use a sequencer as just one sub-part, of a more complicated patch... (and not really as just a sequencer for pitches... but to use the timing, stepping, and trigger ins & outs, for control of some other module.... and- the sequencer (in the signal-flow of the patch), may be somewhere in the middle... and is probably set to react to some output(s) from one or more other modules.... seeing "jump" may not make as much sense (esp. if teaching students), as 'trigger-in'.
"Trigger-In" leaves little doubt (unless maybe uncertainty of an actual 'trigger', vs. a gate).... (which has actually been an issue that needed to be addressed on the S.com)(and has been). Moog's strategy was to make you convert one type of voltage (system-wide), to another... and back again.... (S-trig & V-trig). Then, most modulars began to just use a 'gate' voltage, and 'Control' voltage... and, for most things, that's enough. But for an "open-ended" sequential-controller like the 960/962.... sometimes, you actually need to be able to select between a 'gate', and a 'trigger'... because in some patching situations, a 'gate' will not work as needed... (and visa-versa).
I find myself thinking... what if there had never been a 'standard' agreed upon for MIDI... and every manufacturer used different methods, names for functions (like Port. vs. glide), and just generally, everyone do whatever they want? Man... anyone who thinks some things have a sharp learning-curve now.... wOw! Jeez... what if each synth used different names for each type of waveform (not just sine; tri.; saw; ramp; sq.; rectangle???). Where many of us would catch-on sooner or later.... think about the guys, who have a hard time grasping analog-modular synths, as they are now.

Cheers... (it's 'oodles-of-noodles time').

mosc wrote:

morbius wrote:

I've used many of Moog's 960's... but what I have now, are Dotcom's Q960's... which are a tad more advanced (modes available for each stage = skip, normal,stop, and reset)... so you can manually set different reset-points* .... and there's more about this later. Also... I didn't see trig-in and trig-out jacks for each individual stage (1-9)... only what looks like trig-outs at the end of each row... (and bypassing the V & S trigger differences for the moment)... does that mean that the trigger outputs are at the end of each row... just like the CV outs are?

The two jacks for each stage are Jump (maybe what you are calling reset) and Gate out. So you could patch the out of one stage to the in of another to get a short sequencer of sorts. The inputs are something like 1/4 volt, so any signal can be used, more or less.

The switches are sort of a buss that connects each stage to the V and S trigs at the right. There are three busses.

Fwd/Rev is, of course, voltage controlled.

Quote:

(it very well could be that the photos labels are misleading me... or- that I'm just plain ol' stupid.

Yes, very good. The labels are incorrect.

Quote:

The Q960 can be easily modified so that you have full control over the width of the internal osc.s pulse via patching to any voltage source... so you can do some incredible 'altering' of the Q960's normal left to right, or 1-8 stepping. You can make it run backwards/forwards, and/or in patterns (which includes skipping stages alternatively) which also can be made to vary... semi-randomly, and/or full random... and random which is from a mixture of white and/or pink noise... and/or any waveforms (though a sawtooth or ramp tends to yield more interesting, and can be melodic patterns). Additionally, using one or more manual trigger-bus(es), and/or sequential switches and/or VC-switches to alter the reset-points from a second Q960, which is 'shifted' in sync with whatever master clock you want (be it the first Q960, or an osc., or another external clock)... hell-fire... it can get to be hairy just describing it.

That sounds like a lot of fun. On the Clavia G2 there are some funny things the sequencers do when they are clocked in non-intended ways too.

Quote:

But- .... no 'on board' portamento... ... but it can be patched-in, and even using two or more slew-limiters, each set with separate up/down times and/or lin/expo settings, and patched-thru VC switches, so that they are only active at desired times.

Yes, slew limiter modules are more flexible, but having them built in is convenient.

Quote:

But be reassured... I say all of that, knowing full well that you built that wonderful unit... in '73 (?).... and that, in itself, is quite an accomplishment.

Thanks, but if I was going to redesign it today, It wouldn't be much different.

Quote:

I guess... bottom-line... those jacks at the bottom... both VC 'input' jacks?... and the V & S trig-output jacks at the end of each row... trig-outs for each row? (not individual stage?).

Well, the correct explanation is the left one under each stage is a VC input that causes the sequencer to jump to that stage, just like pushing the little red button. The right one is gate out.

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