heres my thought make gear scale to the same item level while outside of pvp/pve stuff, then when you enter a raid your pvp gear get scaled down, pve gear gets scaled correctly, same thing with pvp instances except its the opposite pvp gear gets scaled correctly, pve gear gets scaled down, problem solved and we wouldn't have pve people being more superior in World PvP

heres my thought make gear scale to the same item level while outside of pvp/pve stuff, then when you enter a raid your pvp gear get scaled down, pve gear gets scaled correctly, same thing with pvp instances except its the opposite pvp gear gets scaled correctly, pve gear gets scaled down, problem solved and we wouldn't have pve people being more superior in World PvP

Problem not solved. You actually have to earn PvE gear. You obtain PvP gear by afking in BGs.

If they made it so that you could only acquire PvP gear from RBGs, you might have a leg to stand on. As it is, you are arguing for PvP gear to trump PvE gear in PvE content. That makes no sense whatsoever, and double-penalizes PvE players because their gear actually takes skill to acquire.

And once again, this seems to only be a problem for PvPers in welfare epics in PvE content on PvP servers. A semi-vocal, extreme minority.

There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Isaac Asimov

Sorry, but are are asking for PvP welfare epics to trump raid gear in PvE zones on PvP servers only. It just doesn't work that way. I know you want to feel like a special snowflake for all your hard work while afking in BGs, but you aren't.

There is no advantage to wearing PvE gear in BGs and Arenas and in WoD World PvP zones as well. You should be happy that your welfare epics give you this much already. A lot of people would rather anything goes in World PvP zones. At least it takes some skill to get raid gear.

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I know that you can't, and yet some of these PvPers are trying.

I find the problem to be that while in the world, my top end PvP gear is so significantly outweighed by the people in PvE gear. It can be useless on the isle because my PVP power that makes my pvp gear what it is, is a completely useless stat. I am never going to be able to do as much damage or healing as someone in full heroic raid epics.

In my opinion, PvP gear should be beneficial in any PvP situation, whether it be world or instanced.

The skill comment about pvp vs. pve... That is an arguement for another time.

Because for every item with good stats in pve I can link you one with bad. BiS LFR is a rarity (and while we're on this subject) optimal timeless is ridiculously rare. With PvP offset items you even choose your stats between 2-3 items.

It maxes out at 8% damage (with good RNG) in heroic gear, usually doing 4-5% single target. Just because it does 11% on galakras doesn't mean it will do 11% on a single player

I wasn't selecting a BiS PVE piece, if you mean that. I just took a tier piece in both cases. Also, I checked and I am telling you right now that the PVE piece that I happened to take is not BiS, it is suboptimal.

The effect of the legendary cloak (in PVP there would also be added damage from the extra stats from the ridiculous ilvl) maxes out at 8% in heroic gear, exactly. This means that if you replace heroic gear with LFR gear, this effect will grow in size, because the effect on the cloak will stay the same, but all other damage will shrink. That's exactly what I was saying. The effect is also automatic, there's no cast time, etc, so in a heavy movement fight it will account for a HIGHER proportion of your DPS than normally. Again, that's what I was saying.

I find the problem to be that while in the world, my top end PvP gear is so significantly outweighed by the people in PvE gear. It can be useless on the isle because my PVP power that makes my pvp gear what it is, is a completely useless stat. I am never going to be able to do as much damage or healing as someone in full heroic raid epics.

In my opinion, PvP gear should be beneficial in any PvP situation, whether it be world or instanced.

World = PvE
Isle = PvE

BG = PvP
Arena = PvP

You still have the advantage in PvP content.

Originally Posted by Xanderz

The skill comment about pvp vs. pve... That is an arguement for another time.

You have to actually defeat bosses to obtain PvE gear. You don't just log in and die a couple times for points that you spend to get the best gear.

PvPers on the other hand can do just that by afking themselves to full sets of the best PvP rewards. You want to talk about fairness and balance. How is that fair or balanced?

There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Isaac Asimov

Why don't just drop the entire pvp/pve gear difference and make both gear equal, AND then focus on making the time spent to obtain the gear to be equal? You could spend 1 month killing a boss for an item, or do arenas for 1 month to get an item.

Problem not solved. You actually have to earn PvE gear. You obtain PvP gear by afking in BGs.

If they made it so that you could only acquire PvP gear from RBGs, you might have a leg to stand on. As it is, you are arguing for PvP gear to trump PvE gear in PvE content. That makes no sense whatsoever, and double-penalizes PvE players because their gear actually takes skill to acquire.

And once again, this seems to only be a problem for PvPers in welfare epics in PvE content on PvP servers. A semi-vocal, extreme minority.

I agree that would be true, but you are taking away from the fact that not all people AFK in BG's to get gear. I am an avid arena player and I actually do earn my gear through actively playing BG's and competing in arenas, and with Grievous gear (which unless i'm ignorant, you cannot obtain from afking in BG's and are therefore not considered "welfare epics") I still cant survive in open world combat Which is still PvP

heres my thought make gear scale to the same item level while outside of pvp/pve stuff, then when you enter a raid your pvp gear get scaled down, pve gear gets scaled correctly, same thing with pvp instances except its the opposite pvp gear gets scaled correctly, pve gear gets scaled down, problem solved and we wouldn't have pve people being more superior in World PvP

Better yet, have PVE Power on raiding gear which only works in raids, similarly to how PVP Power works for PVP encounters, and have raiding gear and PVP gear be the same ilvl. No gear scaling is necessary after that.

You have to actually defeat bosses to obtain PvE gear. You don't just log in and die a couple times for points that you spend to get the best gear.

PvPers on the other hand can do just that by afking themselves to full sets of the best PvP rewards. You want to talk about fairness and balance. How is that fair or balanced?

For last seasons gear, you can do nothing and still acquire it, but you are taking away from people that actively play the game and still can't do anything in a world setting.

In full Grievous gear, which i EARNED through arena and RBG, you dont see where that is a bit unfair? I agree that you had to kill bosses to get PvE gear, but what about people who afk in LFR and get gear that way? Its the same thing, isn't it?

Better yet, have PVE Power on raiding gear which only works in raids, similarly to how PVP Power works for PVP encounters, and have raiding gear and PVP gear be the same ilvl. No gear scaling is necessary after that.

But there will be a huge difference in how you obtain them

For PvP you can literally set up a bot that does nothing but queue up and run into the enemy all night, wake up and purchase the best PvP rewards.

For PvE you have to use your skill and work with others to overcome serious challenges, then get lucky enough for a single item to drop, then get lucky enough to win the roll or have the points to spend to win the item. And you do that with every. single. item. slot.

So having PvP gear somehow magically placed at the same ilvl of PvE gear in PvE content makes no sense.

Welfare PvP epics already have the advantage in PvP. Why you think afking to free rewards means you deserve to be on equal footing with PvE players in PvE areas is beyond me.

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Originally Posted by Xanderz

For last seasons gear, you can do nothing and still acquire it, but you are taking away from people that actively play the game and still can't do anything in a world setting.

In full Grievous gear, which i EARNED through arena and RBG, you dont see where that is a bit unfair? I agree that you had to kill bosses to get PvE gear, but what about people who afk in LFR and get gear that way? Its the same thing, isn't it?

If someone is complaining about being owned by players in LFR gear, I missed it. I would say to that "real PvPer" to study up a bit and learn to play if possible.

There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Isaac Asimov

For last seasons gear, you can do nothing and still acquire it, but you are taking away from people that actively play the game and still can't do anything in a world setting.

In full Grievous gear, which i EARNED through arena and RBG, you dont see where that is a bit unfair? I agree that you had to kill bosses to get PvE gear, but what about people who afk in LFR and get gear that way? Its the same thing, isn't it?

I EARNED my PvE gear, one peice at a time through actual skill and coordination, so why isn't it the best in Arenas and BGs? You don't see where that is a bit unfair? I agree that you had to kill players to get PvP gear, but what about the majority of people who afk in BGs and get gear that way? It's the same thing, isn't it?

There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Isaac Asimov

If someone is complaining about being owned by players in LFR gear, I missed it. I would say to that "real PvPer" to study up a bit and learn to play if possible.

You do know that PVP players who do LFR yet alone flex switch to PVE pieces for Timeless Isle, right? When a 1600 guy who also AFKs some in PVE and has a legendary cloak, gets a weapon from flex, it's gg for all the 2200+ guys who only do arenas.

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Originally Posted by Espe

I EARNED my PvE gear, one peice at a time through actual skill and coordination, so why isn't it the best in Arenas and BGs? You don't see where that is a bit unfair? I agree that you had to kill players to get PvP gear, but what about the majority of people who afk in BGs and get gear that way? It's the same thing, isn't it?

I think you are just trolling by pretending that "actual skill and coordination" don't exist in PVP.

You have to actually defeat bosses to obtain PvE gear. You don't just log in and die a couple times for points that you spend to get the best gear.

PvPers on the other hand can do just that by afking themselves to full sets of the best PvP rewards. You want to talk about fairness and balance. How is that fair or balanced?

So flawed.

What makes you think the "World" is PvE? Because theres mobs in it? NPC's? world bosses?
Theres also a ton of players and wpvp events. If anything "World" is equally PvP as it is PvE.

Yes, PvPers might be able to afk their way to, not the best, but pretty fair decent PvP gear. I wish it was more like in PvE, where you need SKILL to get gear, you know, like afking in LFR?

Please, open your eyes people.

In -any- player versus player situation, instanced, arena, world or in a bugged out raid group where people could kill eachother, PvP gear should -always- have the advantage(Read; not OP, just advantage).

In -any- Player versus Enviourment situation, instanced, dungeon, raid, world or in a bugged out BG where you could kill the...flags? PvE gear should -always- have the advantage(Read; not OP, just advantage).

50 item level difference is not an advantage, it's OP. (Which basically is an advantage, damnit!!)

Either way though I highly doubt that this whole ordeal is not going to continue as is. I think things just got out of hand. It'll get balanced, hopefully, next patch/expansion.

You do know that PVP players who do LFR yet alone flex switch to PVE pieces for Timeless Isle, right? When a 1600 guy who also AFKs some in PVE and has a legendary cloak, gets a weapon from flex, it's gg for all the 2200+ guys who only do arenas.

So someone is hacking the game and making their PvE gear trump PvP gear in BGs and Arenas?

That's something you need to report to Blizzard, not the mmo-champ forums.

There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Isaac Asimov

I wasn't selecting a BiS PVE piece, if you mean that. I just took a tier piece in both cases. Also, I checked and I am telling you right now that the PVE piece that I happened to take is not BiS, it is suboptimal.

There are worse pieces, as well. Much worse.

The effect of the legendary cloak (in PVP there would also be added damage from the extra stats from the ridiculous ilvl) maxes out at 8% in heroic gear, exactly. This means that if you replace heroic gear with LFR gear, this effect will grow in size, because the effect on the cloak will stay the same, but all other damage will shrink. That's exactly what I was saying. The effect is also automatic, there's no cast time, etc, so in a heavy movement fight it will account for a HIGHER proportion of your DPS than normally. Again, that's what I was saying.

/shrug

Largely wrong. The proc scales with your gear, and melee will gain very little from this proc because the proc will usually get wasted doing little to no damage.

Originally Posted by Endus

which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

Yes, PvPers might be able to afk their way to, not the best, but pretty fair decent PvP gear. I wish it was more like in PvE, where you need SKILL to get gear

The best gear is purchased by Conquest points, which you can receive easily by afking / botting, as most people have observed when they enter a random BG.

I wish it took actual skill to get the best PvP gear as well, but that isn't the case. You might have a leg to stand on if you could only receive the best PvP gear from RBGs.

To get the best PvE gear, on the other hand, does take actual skill, dedication and coordination. So why shouldn't it trump PvP gear in PvE zones? PvP gear clearly trumps PvE gear in PvP zones.

What you are asking for it to be the best at everything just because you have more time to afk in BGs than other people. That is selfish, stupid and really not fair to people who actually play the game.

There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Isaac Asimov

Largely wrong. The proc scales with your gear, and melee will gain very little from this proc because the proc will usually get wasted doing little to no damage.

There aren't "much worse" PVE pieces for this slot for this spec.

The proc does scale, yes, but with a specific stat on gear (spell power for ele) and not the sum of all stats, so, yes, 8% in heroic gear becomes 10+% in LFR gear. I agree that the proc for melee is different, but I disagree that it is much less useful for them. It's not about AOE, forget it. It's about added damage on your target.