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everybody's all bent out of shape about this whole iraq thing and terror and this and that... and in the meantime we're KILLING THE PLANET. jesus... i would think that people would have a little more concern over what's happening to the ecosystem.

i seriously think that human affairs are pretty damn trite when compared to the health of the Earth.

people don't have any respect. people aren't shit. go out and look at perfection, at the earth... look across the grand canyon and see layers and layers of time... each one older than the human race will ever be. the earth is big, old, and wise... we're like it's moronic teenage children. fuck.

We don't have the ability to destroy the planet. The planet has seen much worse than anything humanity could ever dish out. We will kill off all of humanity long before the ecosystem takes irreperable damage.

--------------------"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

"But I have no doubt that humanity is the greatest evil ever to be unleashed on Earth, maybe the universe."

Why? We haven't done anything that bad.

We aren't any more aggressive than other animals, we're just smart enough to do more damage.

Plus, what else makes beautiful music and art?

--------------------"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

Quote: But I have no doubt that humanity is the greatest evil ever to be unleashed on Earth, maybe the universe.

My, what drama! Sad really.

--------------------You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

I'm curious, have you always felt this way? I've always said that we are kind of cocky to think that we have the ability to destroy the Earth. I'm all for a clean environment (as are about 99.9999999% of the world population) but to think that we have the ability to destroy the earth is a stretch.

I've felt that way for quite a while... ever since I really thought about it.

I still think it's important to protect the environment, I do think it's possible that we could make the conditions unlivable for ourselves, but we're not going to be able to wipe out all life.

--------------------"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

"and we ARE more aggressive than other animals, no animal kills on the scale that human beings do."

That's not aggression. We don't fight more often than other animals, we're just better at it. I don't know if you've ever read about the life of a wolf pack, but there's even more violence within that group than within the average group of humans. It's just that when we lash out, we've got bombs and guns to do it with.

Humans are natural. We are a part of nature. What we create is just as natural as a beaver dam or a bird's nest. It's silly and arrogant to think that the things we do are somehow above the things that other animals do.

We aren't completely destroying nature. That's the thing. Nature will always adapt and grow back. It's seen far worse than what we've done, massive asteroids, ice ages, volcanoes, all things that have destoyed entire species and raped ecosystems, and nature always adapted and grew back.

--------------------"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

Well, we might not be the most aggressive animal, but we're certainly one of the more aggressive species on Earth.

It's just that when we lash out, we've got bombs and guns to do it with.

It is this potential for destruction that makes us so dangerous, and unlike anything that has come before. I would hope that along with the knowledge to create these tools of death, we would have the wisdom to restrain ourselves, but that hasn't been the case.

You mentioned natural disasters that have caused more damage to the ecosystem. I think those are truly natural events and there is no intent to destroy. We are the only creatures that willfully and systematically destroys the environment. When we dump tons of toxic waste into a river, can that really be called natural?

Sure, you could say that EVERYTHING is natural.Isn't that merely justifying our actions? Where do we draw the line?

"Well, we might not be the most aggressive animal, but we're certainly one of the more aggressive species on Earth."

I still don't buy that. For instance, if someone knocks on your door uninvited, what do you do, politely send him away?

Try and approach most any other animals den. You probably won't be treated so nicely.

"Sure, you could say that EVERYTHING is natural.Isn't that merely justifying our actions? Where do we draw the line?"

It's not justifying anything, our actions are still wrong, and generally stupid. We still need to take steps to control our effects on the environment if we want to survive.

"I think those are truly natural events and there is no intent to destroy."

We aren't intentionally destroying the environment. It's a side effect of the many other things we are doing.

"When we dump tons of toxic waste into a river, can that really be called natural?"

Sure. When a volcano dumps toxins into the atmosphere, can that be called natural?

Yeah, humans are dangerous. We can blow things up. We can wipe out entire species, but there is NO damage we can do that the rest of nature can't do on it's own. The damage we have done now doesn't hold a candle to the damage that has been done in the past through various natural disasters.

We may eventually wipe ourselves, and a good chunk of the rest of nature out, but the planet will replenish itself with newly adapted life, just like it has so many times before, granted it doesn't crash itself into the sun first.

--------------------"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

Quote:We aren't intentionally destroying the environment. It's a side effect of the many other things we are doing.

Well, during war, we are intentionally destroying the environment, and unintentionally destroying it, thus targeting the environment much more than humans... really.

There is a destruction from the preperation of war, the effects during war, and the aftermath of war.

The preparation of war always involves the mass production of many items for military usage. This can range from clear cutting areas for an airfield, creating large bombs, tanks, guns and aircrafts, all which will have byproducts. Test areas for weapons will also need large areas so that it will not affect humans. These areas must be extremely large, and will obviously hurt and change the natural ecosystem and processes in those areas.

In one hour of flight, the F-16 will burn twice as much fuel as an average motorist will in a year. Billons of gallons of oil are used just in the training and preparation of war, being used by airplanes, tankers and other motorized vehicles.

Destruction of the environment and local ecosystems of war are apparent, from the movement of infantry lines, to bombing of buildings and towns to the air pollution caused by the burning of greenhouse gasses. During the war of Vietnam, Agent Orange was used to create forest fires, driving the Koreans out of their hideouts and destroying their agriculture that was so valuable to their economy.

Oil was the weapon that Saddam Hussein used to strike back at his enemies when his own defeat was inescapable. He flooded the Gulf with oil runoff; he set Kuwait's oil wells on fire.

Basically, the destruction of environement in many countries, which have a huge impact on their economy, due to the fact that agriculture is all they have, is one of the best weapons against it's people.

When a bomb is detonated, it can create temperatures of over 3,000 degrees Celsius. Temperatures of this height will not only burn the flora and fauna, the biodiversity and natural creation of thousands of years; it will also destroy the underlying nutrient rich soils. This is a very obvious and direct impact to the environment from war.

During the Gulf War, the United States produced negative environmental effects by bombing oil tankers and oil production facilities. The 1993 Marine Pollution Bulletin stated that sunken vessels spilled 6-8 million barrels of crude oil. This not only hurts the birds, fish and other animals that live on the upper layers of the ocean, but also destroys the lower levels of the food web that supports the entire marine ecosystem. It can block sunlight from certain plankton and algae's to complete photosynthesis.

I wrote a 10 page essay on the environmental impacts of war, so hehe sorry for the rant