Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com has the M's out of the Swisher game. The FA is not visiting Seattle this week and it seems like the M's don't wish to give up the number 12 pick (which they would lose if they signed Swisher)

per Rotoworld

"There is but one thing of real value: to cultivate truth and justice and to live without anger in the midst of lying and unjust men"

British_Pharaoh wrote:I'm thinking Swisher ain't going to be sitting in the home dugout at Progressive Field if the rumoured 4 year $50m offer is to be believed.

I'm betting it's higher than that. I personally think the Indians went closer to 4/56 and are hoping their rumored offer stays on the low end and maybe lets them sneak in with the highest or second-highest bid.

Not to belabor the point or roll on with the negativity, but if the Indians offer me 4/56 and the Rangers or some other contender offer me 4/48, I'm not playing in Cleveland for the next 2-4 years.

CC is actually a Braves fan, due to TBS broadcasting all of the games when he was a yout.

I always suspected he has a bit of a soft spot for the Tribe, though because he always makes it to a few games. Usually asks if any followers want to meet him for a beer before games. At least I've seen him do that a couple times.

British_Pharaoh wrote:Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com has the M's out of the Swisher game. The FA is not visiting Seattle this week and it seems like the M's don't wish to give up the number 12 pick (which they would lose if they signed Swisher)

per Rotoworld

Wait, how does that work? Will the Tribe be giving up a pick if they sign him?

peeker643 wrote:Not to belabor the point or roll on with the negativity, but if the Indians offer me 4/56 and the Rangers or some other contender offer me 4/48, I'm not playing in Cleveland for the next 2-4 years.

Probably the case, especially since the Rangers missed on Hamilton. That's the worst-case scenario for us, Hamilton not going back to Texas. I don't think any of the other potential destinations are as attractive as Texas.

I don't think he's really interested in Boston or Baltimore. Philadelphia could be in play, but he's never been in the NL.

Personally, I think he winds up in Texas, but we'll have the highest offer.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

peeker643 wrote:Not to belabor the point or roll on with the negativity, but if the Indians offer me 4/56 and the Rangers or some other contender offer me 4/48, I'm not playing in Cleveland for the next 2-4 years.

Probably the case, especially since the Rangers missed on Hamilton. That's the worst-case scenario for us, Hamilton not going back to Texas. I don't think any of the other potential destinations are as attractive as Texas.

I don't think he's really interested in Boston or Baltimore. Philadelphia could be in play, but he's never been in the NL.

Personally, I think he winds up in Texas, but we'll have the highest offer.

Lets just hope he is not partial to playing baseball in 105 f heat with 110% humidity every day.

"I don't think they're building chemical weapons in Berea. But they might be. I can't say for sure."Chuck Klosterman

British_Pharaoh wrote:Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com has the M's out of the Swisher game. The FA is not visiting Seattle this week and it seems like the M's don't wish to give up the number 12 pick (which they would lose if they signed Swisher)

per Rotoworld

Wait, how does that work? Will the Tribe be giving up a pick if they sign him?

We'd lose our 2nd rd pick.

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peeker643 wrote:Not to belabor the point or roll on with the negativity, but if the Indians offer me 4/56 and the Rangers or some other contender offer me 4/48, I'm not playing in Cleveland for the next 2-4 years.

Probably the case, especially since the Rangers missed on Hamilton. That's the worst-case scenario for us, Hamilton not going back to Texas. I don't think any of the other potential destinations are as attractive as Texas.

I don't think he's really interested in Boston or Baltimore. Philadelphia could be in play, but he's never been in the NL.

Personally, I think he winds up in Texas, but we'll have the highest offer.

peeker643 wrote:Not to belabor the point or roll on with the negativity, but if the Indians offer me 4/56 and the Rangers or some other contender offer me 4/48, I'm not playing in Cleveland for the next 2-4 years.

Probably the case, especially since the Rangers missed on Hamilton. That's the worst-case scenario for us, Hamilton not going back to Texas. I don't think any of the other potential destinations are as attractive as Texas.

I don't think he's really interested in Boston or Baltimore. Philadelphia could be in play, but he's never been in the NL.

Personally, I think he winds up in Texas, but we'll have the highest offer.

It's certainly possible. How big is their scoreboard?

It's not a matter of where he grips it, it's about weight ratio. There's no way a 5 ounce bird can carry a 1 pound coconut.

peeker643 wrote:Not to belabor the point or roll on with the negativity, but if the Indians offer me 4/56 and the Rangers or some other contender offer me 4/48, I'm not playing in Cleveland for the next 2-4 years.

Probably the case, especially since the Rangers missed on Hamilton. That's the worst-case scenario for us, Hamilton not going back to Texas. I don't think any of the other potential destinations are as attractive as Texas.

I don't think he's really interested in Boston or Baltimore. Philadelphia could be in play, but he's never been in the NL.

Personally, I think he winds up in Texas, but we'll have the highest offer.

It's certainly possible. How big is their scoreboard?

It's not a matter of where he grips it, it's about weight ratio. There's no way a 5 ounce bird can carry a 1 pound coconut.

peeker643 wrote:Not to belabor the point or roll on with the negativity, but if the Indians offer me 4/56 and the Rangers or some other contender offer me 4/48, I'm not playing in Cleveland for the next 2-4 years.

Probably the case, especially since the Rangers missed on Hamilton. That's the worst-case scenario for us, Hamilton not going back to Texas. I don't think any of the other potential destinations are as attractive as Texas.

I don't think he's really interested in Boston or Baltimore. Philadelphia could be in play, but he's never been in the NL.

Personally, I think he winds up in Texas, but we'll have the highest offer.

It's certainly possible. How big is their scoreboard?

It's not a matter of where he grips it, it's about weight ratio. There's no way a 5 ounce bird can carry a 1 pound coconut.

FOX Sports' Ken Rosenthal reports that the Indians are "in talks" with Edwin Jackson.The Indians are talking to both Jackson and Nick Swisher, but Rosenthal says it's unlikely they'll be able to sign both. The Rangers are also in on Jackson, and so are the Cubs even though they're reportedly close to locking up Carlos Villanueva. CBS Sports' Jon Heyman says the bidding for E-Jax has reached four years and "close to $50 million."

Rotoworld

So with all the heat on Jackson at the moment and with Swisher pissing around are we changing our priorities? Or the FO realise that Swisher is a longer shot than Jackson?

"There is but one thing of real value: to cultivate truth and justice and to live without anger in the midst of lying and unjust men"

The Rangers likely want to avoid Swisher because they'd lose their #1 pcik this year and it brings their spending pool on the draft down considerably.

Overall if they view the two as a wash, they'll be inclined to go with Ross.

Think unless the Phils or someone comes in late, it is going to be tough for Swisher to turn us down.

Playing here is the closest thing to heaven. Really, I mean it's amazing to be in a place where the fans truly cherish their football team and stick behind them win or lose. We players love them, too. I feel a sense of accomplishment playing here, we are a special breed of football players with a great opportunity." ~ tOSU LB Brian Rolle

peeker643 wrote:Not to belabor the point or roll on with the negativity, but if the Indians offer me 4/56 and the Rangers or some other contender offer me 4/48, I'm not playing in Cleveland for the next 2-4 years.

Probably the case, especially since the Rangers missed on Hamilton. That's the worst-case scenario for us, Hamilton not going back to Texas. I don't think any of the other potential destinations are as attractive as Texas.

I don't think he's really interested in Boston or Baltimore. Philadelphia could be in play, but he's never been in the NL.

Personally, I think he winds up in Texas, but we'll have the highest offer.

It's certainly possible. How big is their scoreboard?

It's not a matter of where he grips it, it's about weight ratio. There's no way a 5 ounce bird can carry a 1 pound coconut.

African or European?

African swallows are non migratory.

Suppose two swallows carried it together?

"I don't think they're building chemical weapons in Berea. But they might be. I can't say for sure."Chuck Klosterman

What the Cubs are doing this off season is pretty interesting. If they end up signing Jackson, they will have signed 4 starting pitchers this off-season: Scott Baker, Jackson, Scott Feldmen and they just signed Carlos Villanueva yesterday. They've already got Jeff Samardzija, Matt Garza, and Travis Wood, all very capable starters as well. I'm wondering if Garza's arm injury is a concern for them, or if they're looking to deal someone in spring training.

I'd read a week or so ago that the are placing themselves to be in a position to pick up David Price when the Rays have to move him in a couple of years.

Jackson's not bad, but I'm glad we didn't give a four-year deal to a guy coming off a season with a noticeable velo drop.

Still want Marcum more than anybody, because he's low risk on a one year deal with possibly an option for a second.

Another interesting name Rosenthal brought up yesterday, not specifically linked to us, was Brett Myers. Could be Derek Lowe redux, but he might have a little more in the tank than Lowe did. Reportedly, Myers wants to go back to starting. He should be a pretty solid #4/5.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

leadpipe wrote:Guy looks like he's on the decline on both sides if you ask me.

In what way? Higher ISO power than 2011, was lower than 2009 and 2010, though. Second highest swinging strike rate of his career could indicate a slowdown of bat speed, though that appears to be negated by the highest line drive percentage of his career. Fielding metrics on par with his career averages. Seemed to be a pretty standard season in WAR and was one of his better baserunning seasons in his career.

Did you watch a lot of Swisher with the Yankees?

And I agree with Tripods - For the most part Marcum has been pretty good - when he pitches. In that price range I'm not sure you could do much better.

Might be the first time you've agreed with me on a baseball personnel decision.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

leadpipe wrote:Guy looks like he's on the decline on both sides if you ask me.

In what way? Higher ISO power than 2011, was lower than 2009 and 2010, though. Second highest swinging strike rate of his career could indicate a slowdown of bat speed, though that appears to be negated by the highest line drive percentage of his career. Fielding metrics on par with his career averages. Seemed to be a pretty standard season in WAR and was one of his better baserunning seasons in his career.

Did you watch a lot of Swisher with the Yankees?

And I agree with Tripods - For the most part Marcum has been pretty good - when he pitches. In that price range I'm not sure you could do much better.

Might be the first time you've agreed with me on a baseball personnel decision.

Not suprised that about his swinging strike rate. A better indicator of possibly some slowing bat speed is how he looked against good pitching. Not all that suprised he struggled in the playoffs, cause generally you see good pitching.

Understanding EVERYONE is going to hit good pitching worse, he just doesn't look like the same guy against #1's 2's and live bully arms.

You might argue this point moot for the 2013 regular season Tribe, but it wouldn't be moot for a playoff team.

Point is, I don't think he's a great gamble, cause I don't think the payoff is all that great at this point should you hit the jackpot.

leadpipe wrote:A better indicator of possibly some slowing bat speed is how he looked against good pitching. Not all that suprised he struggled in the playoffs, cause generally you see good pitching.

.169/.283/.305/.589 slash in the playoffs. Wasn't a new trend this year. But, certainly, something to be concerned about if you're counting on him to be a playoff contributor sometime during that contract.

Point is, I don't think he's a great gamble, cause I don't think the payoff is all that great at this point should you hit the jackpot.

Fair, but, what's the other option? Michael Bourn? Cody Ross?

I realize that asking for contention 2013 is not easy to do, but it's not like the Indians will have their hat in the ring very often for a quality corner OF bat. There are some promising 2014 FAs, but not guys I see us really contending for in an open market.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

leadpipe wrote:A better indicator of possibly some slowing bat speed is how he looked against good pitching. Not all that suprised he struggled in the playoffs, cause generally you see good pitching.

.169/.283/.305/.589 slash in the playoffs. Wasn't a new trend this year. But, certainly, something to be concerned about if you're counting on him to be a playoff contributor sometime during that contract.

Point is, I don't think he's a great gamble, cause I don't think the payoff is all that great at this point should you hit the jackpot.

Fair, but, what's the other option? Michael Bourn? Cody Ross?

I realize that asking for contention 2013 is not easy to do, but it's not like the Indians will have their hat in the ring very often for a quality corner OF bat. There are some promising 2014 FAs, but not guys I see us really contending for in an open market.

I'm not claiming there are better options, I just think if you're options are A. Getting into some sort of competition for Nick Swisher and potentially overpaying the guy or B. Nothing, I'd choose B.

Again, if he runs the gammat and falls to the Tribe at a reasonable rate, well, that changes things.

Bottom line is, signing a guy like Nick Swisher in 2012 does little but perhaps improve the product on the field to make it somewhat more tolerable and placate the fan base a bit. It doesn't do anything for the real future of the team. And all this is fine as long as you don't pay a premium to do it.

leadpipe wrote:Bottom line is, signing a guy like Nick Swisher in 2012 does little but perhaps improve the product on the field to make it somewhat more tolerable and placate the fan base a bit. It doesn't do anything for the real future of the team. And all this is fine as long as you don't pay a premium to do it.

Agree with this completely. Even if contention is unrealistic in the immediate future, tolerability is a worthwhile endeavor.

leadpipe wrote:Bottom line is, signing a guy like Nick Swisher in 2012 does little but perhaps improve the product on the field to make it somewhat more tolerable and placate the fan base a bit. It doesn't do anything for the real future of the team. And all this is fine as long as you don't pay a premium to do it.

Agree with this completely. Even if contention is unrealistic in the immediate future, tolerability is a worthwhile endeavor.

So, the question becomes, what is a premium for Nick Swisher?

Well, taking a drop-off into consideration because he won't put up the same numbers in Cleveland that he put up in the Bandbox in the Bronx, I would say that I wouldn't go higher than 4/60. I still think he's, at minimum, a three-win player (3.2, 4.1, 3.8, 3.9 in NY) in Cleveland. If the cost of wins in FA is between 4-5M per win, then he's between 12-15M per season. The Indians are, reportedly, right in that range at 13M annually.

By Year 4, when he'll be 36, he may regress enough for it to be an overpayment. But I think it's a reasonable amount.

I've seen a couple speculations (can't remember the sources off-hand, sorry) that suggest Swisher may be seeing how the Napoli situation sorts itself out in Boston. If his contract with the Red Sox doesn't go through, then the reasoning suggests Swisher may suddenly be in play for them. It could help to explain the lack of any news regarding his destination ...once again, he may just be holding out for a better option.

Not saying that this has any bearing on the situation, but Swisher's agent, Dan Lozano, is reportedly a gigantic piece of shit: http://deadspin.com/5861982/dan-lozano- ... e-mountain (FWIW, he didn't dispute any of these claims; he just chalked them up to "jealousy" on the part of the person who sent this information to the media)

I imagine he's trying to play the Tribe like a cheap fiddle for more money and it's not working out the way that he and Swisher planned it. The delay, more than anything, probably has to do with Swisher's agent. He can't deal with the fact that the market's not there for Swisher.

Also the guy who got the Pujols monster deal, the enormous Votto extension, and several other notorious deals.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

skatingtripods wrote:Not saying that this has any bearing on the situation, but Swisher's agent, Dan Lozano, is reportedly a gigantic piece of shit: http://deadspin.com/5861982/dan-lozano- ... e-mountain (FWIW, he didn't dispute any of these claims; he just chalked them up to "jealousy" on the part of the person who sent this information to the media)

I imagine he's trying to play the Tribe like a cheap fiddle for more money and it's not working out the way that he and Swisher planned it. The delay, more than anything, probably has to do with Swisher's agent. He can't deal with the fact that the market's not there for Swisher.

Also the guy who got the Pujols monster deal, the enormous Votto extension, and several other notorious deals.

What a read. So that's what it's like to be completely void of morality.

We should withdraw our offer to Swisher if he doesn't sign before next weekend. He clearly doesn't want to play in Cleveland and is waiting for another team to come along with an offer and rescue him. I don't want a player on this team who does not want to be here.

"There is but one thing of real value: to cultivate truth and justice and to live without anger in the midst of lying and unjust men"

British_Pharaoh wrote:We should withdraw our offer to Swisher if he doesn't sign before next weekend. He clearly doesn't want to play in Cleveland and is waiting for another team to come along with an offer and rescue him. I don't want a player on this team who does not want to be here.

Uh oh... there goes any accomplished MLB player in his prime. The good news is that's been the case for a decade so you should be used to it.

British_Pharaoh wrote:We should withdraw our offer to Swisher if he doesn't sign before next weekend. He clearly doesn't want to play in Cleveland and is waiting for another team to come along with an offer and rescue him. I don't want a player on this team who does not want to be here.

I've heard that Swisher wants to play for the Dodger's, but they aren't even close to what the Tribe is willing to pay. Looks like Bos, Tex, and everyone else isn't willing to go where the Tribe did.

After reading that article about Nick's scumbag agent, I bet the Tribe FO made sure every team knows exactly what was offered and said...you want him...beat it. So far everyone has balked. And I agree. If Swisher doesn't sign by "x" date...move along.

British_Pharaoh wrote:We should withdraw our offer to Swisher if he doesn't sign before next weekend. He clearly doesn't want to play in Cleveland and is waiting for another team to come along with an offer and rescue him. I don't want a player on this team who does not want to be here.

So you're suggesting we disband the team?

Very droll

"There is but one thing of real value: to cultivate truth and justice and to live without anger in the midst of lying and unjust men"

ESPN's Jim Bowden reports that Nick Swisher is strongly considering signing with the Indians.Swisher's preference is to sign in Los Angeles or New York, but the Yankees have all but ruled out bringing him back and there doesn't appear to be any interest from the Dodgers. According to WTAM's Nick Camino, the Indians have a four-year, $52 million standing offer for Swisher, though it's not clear whether that's enough to get a deal done. In addition to Cleveland, the Rangers and Mariners have also been linked as landing spots.

rotoworld

"There is but one thing of real value: to cultivate truth and justice and to live without anger in the midst of lying and unjust men"

Sands had a nice minor league slash: .289/.376/.562/.938 and had a .914 OPS in 940 PA in the hitter-friendly PCL with the Dodgers. Was sent to Boston in the Crawford deal. RH 1B/OF who doesn't really seem to have a position. Limited ML time, but had some evident growing pains. Could probably handle LF in most parks.

Melancon's a pretty average reliever, though moving back to the NL should help him.

Pimentel might be SP depth. Can miss bats, not overly special.

Hanrahan was lights out for the Pirates in 2011. Enormous spike in BB/9 last season. Still notched 36 saves and benefited from a lower H/9. He's 31, 3rd year arb this year and then he's FA-eligible next year.

Meanwhile, Perez is 27, has one extra year of control, and is coming off the lowest walk rate of his career.

If Sands figures it out at the ML level, it's a decent haul for the Pirates. This is mostly a lot of rambling, but it may give us some kind of indication what the Chris Perez market might look like, if the Indians are still looking to move him to fill a hole.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

skatingtripods wrote:If Sands figures it out at the ML level, it's a decent haul for the Pirates. This is mostly a lot of rambling, but it may give us some kind of indication what the Chris Perez market might look like, if the Indians are still looking to move him to fill a hole.

They should be. We've got plenty of bullpen depth now, he could bring us back a potentially valuable piece, and the savings on his contract could go toward a guy like Lohse or Marcum.

What's the market on him, though? Detroit needs a closer, but I doubt the Indians would trade him within our division, particularly if they seem to think they can go for it this year. Boston's obviously out now, too. Who else could be a fit for us?

Adverb Harry wrote:They should be. We've got plenty of bullpen depth now, he could bring us back a potentially valuable piece, and the savings on his contract could go toward a guy like Lohse or Marcum.

This would be great.

What's the market on him, though? Detroit needs a closer, but I doubt the Indians would trade him within our division, particularly if they seem to think they can go for it this year. Boston's obviously out now, too. Who else could be a fit for us?

I don't think there is one. Milwaukee could be a candidate, but Axford's a lot cheaper and should bounce back. Some of his peripherals signal a bounce back, while others may just be bad trends. Could argue to Doug Melvin that he has no other closing experience in his bullpen and Axford couldn't keep the job last season. Axford is cheap enough to be a highly valuable setup guy if he was put into that role.

Beyond that, it's pretty hard to see a fit. Teams aren't in a rush to give a closer 6-7M per (projected to get 7.2M in arbitration by Matt Swartz's arbitration projections).

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

Welllll... All is quiet in Cincinnati, post-Choo trade - but they keep a lid on most of their potential moves, including Choo. (btw, I was talking up a match of Cinc for Choo before that deal went down. Was my only 'call' in memory so I'll keep bringing it up)

When they signed Aroldis Chapman out of Cuba a few yrs ago,he was a starter. Starters are at such a premium, and the Reds brass has indicated they want to move him back, from closer. I don't know his exact contract details but he's not getting current starter 'market value' right now. So the Reds have that reason to start him, too. Many don't think he has enough pitches, but others think he'll be tried as a starter before his current deal is up.

They think they are ready to get to a WS. I think they'd be a team to consider.

ETA: Had both Hanrahan and Axford on my crappy fantasy team last year. Still bitter

Last edited by googleeph2 on Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.