TsukasaK:Elegy: The fact that people can't understand that firing a "warning shot" is reckless endangerment with a firearm

That doesn't even make sense.

But then again, this is Florida we're talking about..

The practical solution to this is to never, never fire a warning shot. The legal doctrine in most jurisdictions is that you may only fire if you are in immediate fear for your life. So if you fire in fear for your life, and happen to miss, and see that the person attacking you retreats, and is no longer attacking, you have successfully defended your life, and would be unjustified in shooting a retreating attacker who is no longer a threat. That is NOT a warning shot. This is why if you ever find yourself defending yourself you should ALWAYS talk to a lawyer and not the police after the fact. Very subtle differences in WORDING alone (not in actual actions) can make a crime into a legal action or a legal action illegal. And we aren't always educated about the consequences about the words we use, and may not use them precisely. The lawyer's purpose is to guide you through a quite arbitrary and capricious field of legal landmines. If you speak for yourself directly, you can only make your defense and justification more difficult in the long run.

Penman:iq_in_binary: Penman: Pincy: Penman: iq_in_binary: Because the asshole who thinks a gun in his pocket makes him a cop that decided you looked suspicious won't go to jail for shooting you after starting a fight with you and losing.

Every Trayvon cheerleader gets this wrong. Trayvon Martin started the fight.

So we have video of how this whole thing went down?

A 911 call and the injuries to Zimmerman.

Yes, a 911 call where Zimmerman admitted to pursuing Martin. Despite being told not to.

Active pursuit is threatening behavior. That's instigating a fight. Like I said, he was losing a fight he started, and like a little biatch pulled the gun because he was a sore loser.

You can turn around and violently attack someone because they're walking down the same street as you? "Yes Officer, I thought he was pursuing me, I just didn't like the way he looked, so I beat the shiat out of him"In fact it seems like Trayvon might be the racist one, assuming that the Mexican guy is out to get him.

Ok, I'm heavy on the self defense opinion myself, I think we may have started off on the wrong foot.

Let me explain, I have insight into the legal system that you do not have. I was a legal investigator. A good one, I charged $150/hr for static surveillance and $225/hr plus the rates of other investigators helping me for dynamic surveillance. That's right, my job was following people.

Let's get something straight, following people in a menacing manner IS against the law. For us? Unless we we're in confined quarters like a bar or strip club or restaurant, the general rule is stay the fark outside of a 20-30 yard bubble. Why? Because any closer can be considered menacing. Investigators have been charged with intimidation, stalking, disorderly behavior, you name it for trailing people. Because guess what, constantly following people around IS generally considered in the court of law to be threatening behavior.

As a "legal professional" (don't kid yourself, I was hired muscle for lawyers, and because of who I worked for it was TECHNICALLY legal, though morally wrong) I have both a wide breadth when it comes to defending myself but also a pretty close look at how the criminal element and how unfavorably it treats those not working for the system. I'm also fairly liberal now, so I try and confine my use of force worthy situations to as small a list of justifiable situations as possible. Basically, the mantra is, GET THE fark AWAY. Why? Showing that you did the best you could to avoid the situation in the first place goes a long way in criminal cases towards showing necessity of your actions. Awareness, Detection, Evasion. Be aware, detect the threat, and do your best to get the fark away from it. Failing that, preemptive offense. I've worked for many a lawyer, one of whom has personally taken a police chief in front of the SCOTUS and biatch slapped him up one side the court and down the other over a rejected CCW application. He told me to write a book on self defense after discussing this subject at length, and offered to write the forward.

Zimmerman pursued. In a sane world, that would preempt a self defense claim. He wasn't a cop, he was armed against Neighborhood Watch rules, etc.. That he's walking around free when it very well could have been me that he tried to chase that night because I was doing an asset check is disturbing. Why? Because the best way to diffuse a violent situation is to get away from it. That there is a legal climate in any state of our union that justifies someone pursuing (which like I said, for me, IS criminal behavior if they spot me and I'm closer than 20-30 yards) thus starting a fight (I kind of have to think that way because my mere presence is very detrimental to them, it means their life is about to take a turn for the worse if I live to turn in that affidavit, motive AND opportunity considering they're in visible range of me), and shooting someone when they end up losing the fight(which is again likely with me, I took hand to hand and defensive pistol training very seriously), is a VERY BAD THING.

In short, I am (or was, now that I'm not on the job anymore and relocated to a city where I didn't have a bunch of people rather pissed at me) the epitome of the reason to be paranoid and walk around armed, and even I find some very big and glaring issues with this ruling. Whether or not you chose to address them is up to you. But as someone who had big reason to be concerned over this who is quite invested in legal self defense, quit it with your pretentious shiat.

MrHappyRotter:Hmm, why'd they wait until so late on a Saturday. I wanted to go smash up some of the white and latino owned local businesses and maybe do some looting and raping and get high on marijuana drugs, but I have church in the morning and I can't afford to stay up for it.

sjcousins:Full Metal Retard: sjcousins: Penman: iq_in_binary: Because the asshole who thinks a gun in his pocket makes him a cop that decided you looked suspicious won't go to jail for shooting you after starting a fight with you and losing.

Every Trayvon cheerleader gets this wrong. Trayvon Martin started the fight.

According to the man who shot him you mean?

As opposed to the fantasy stories made up by the race industry? Yes. Sad to say, but they went by the evidence presented in a court of law.

So you accept unquestioningly that Martin started the fight despite the fact that the only evidence comes from the man who shot him, whos freedom relies on claiming self defense, but everything else is 'fantasy' made up by the 'race industry'. Yep, you sound like a reasonable individual sound of mind. What the fark is the race industry anyway?

RockSteadyUSMC:The judicial system worked exactly how it's supposed to. There was enough reasonable doubt to acquit, and that was how it should be. The judicial system convicts based on facts and should prove beyond a reasonable doubt, not convict based on public opinion.

TheManofPA:my lip balm addiction: TheManofPA: Dang, choked in the other thread and I have to wait 700 more posts for the famous Sharknado-Zimmerman thread double

Saw that - you were a few seconds off and came in at 1006. I'll be watching this thread. ;) The #nPo is rolling into MitB with 2 belts y'all and the Rainbow Hardcore that Supercampion is holding is one of 'em.

Nope, I hold the hardcore one now. I took with an epic Sharknado post. It's going to be up for grabs soon, so get to your posts. I've got to write up the MITB guessing game tonight anyhow.

What's the rule in a thread like this where posts might get nuked? Is screencap proof enough, or do you have to be at 1,004 when the dust settles?

jpo2269:Unfortunately, many of us saw that coming. I personally thought when the option of manslaughter was brought into the possible verdicts, Zimmerman would have been found guilty of at least this charge..

What are they pleading for? Besides, those tweets were made after the verdict, and if the jurors can see into the future of Twitter -which they'd have to in order for these tweets to be part of the pleading- then they should be brought up on criminal charges for failing to warn the authorities before this incident even occurred. Though it could be argued that seeing into the future of Twitter is punishment enough.

No, the emotional pleading came from the prosecution's "please send a man you don't know to be guilty to prison, because a CHILD was KILLED with a GUN!" act.

As a self-hating white person with a pigeon chest and kazoo voice, I was hoping that George Zimmerman would be found guilty of murder for daring to resist a black man who was doing nothing wrong except for pounding Zimmerman's head against a concrete sidewalk and bloodying his nose in an attempt to exact some measure of racial justice. I am outraged that it is now considered acceptable for lighter-skinned people to act in self-defence against darker-skinned people who are trying to kill them, and I am more outraged still that Zimmerman has been spared prison and the prolonged sexual torture and eventual murder that the verdict would have entailed. Obviously what has happened here proves that the USA is still a dystopian racist theocracy, and by way of protest I am going to obstinately remain in the basement of my house in my predominantly-white, safe, suburban neighbourhood until justice is done, while furiously hammering away at the keyboard.

rev. dave:Funny how we have 2 threads in 1. I guess that those of us who realize that we have no impact on a judicial case prefer to talk about delicious breakfast foods rather than the stuff we cannot change.

I like turkey sausage and turkey bacon, but you have to get the right kind of both or they can be tasteless because they have so little fat to add to the flavor. Whole wheat waffles are okay every once in a while, but I prefer egg white omelets with spinach or some salsa and turkey sausage/bacon.

Aigoo:skinnycatullus: I'm in Lewis County, NY, so I'm getting a kick out of these pancakes. /maple syrup!

My father was from Jefferson County and loved maple syrup. I think that shiat is vile. I swear he considered disowning me more than once over my lifelong loathing of anything maple.

Seriously, WTF is the obsession with maple upstate? My father's whole family thinks it is the greatest stuff ever and I'd rather put used engine oil on pancakes than that shiat. /shudder

When making maple syrup upstate NY, you can get a cup, scoop up some snow, put 3 shots of good vodka in it and one shot of syrup. eat like a snow cone. Heaven came to earth in the moment you taste that.

odinsposse:So I love pancakes. From my mom's side I was passed down recipes for Swedish pancakes and lefse. My dad is an expert at traditional pancakes and has done some good crepes as well. I haven't done any of it. However I've been thinking of investing in pancake griddle like this one and really getting into it. Anyone use one like it? Don't tell me about cast iron. I've bought and thrown out two cast iron skillets because I can never get them seasoned right and they rust like crazy.

sjcousins:Full Metal Retard: sjcousins: Penman: iq_in_binary: Because the asshole who thinks a gun in his pocket makes him a cop that decided you looked suspicious won't go to jail for shooting you after starting a fight with you and losing.

Every Trayvon cheerleader gets this wrong. Trayvon Martin started the fight.

According to the man who shot him you mean?

As opposed to the fantasy stories made up by the race industry? Yes. Sad to say, but they went by the evidence presented in a court of law.

So you accept unquestioningly that Martin started the fight despite the fact that the only evidence comes from the man who shot him, whos freedom relies on claiming self defense, but everything else is 'fantasy' made up by the 'race industry'. Yep, you sound like a reasonable individual sound of mind. What the fark is the race industry anyway?

See how that works? "the only evidence" is kind of a key phrase. So is "beyond a reasonable doubt."

What I think of Z doesn't matter. What the jury thinks shouldn't matter.

And if you don't think there is a race industry in America, you live a very sheltered life.

Millennium:IlGreven: So, this was a victory over "emotional pleading"...

If this were true, how come these tweets exist?

What are they pleading for? Besides, those tweets were made after the verdict, and if the jurors can see into the future of Twitter -which they'd have to in order for these tweets to be part of the pleading- then they should be brought up on criminal charges for failing to warn the authorities before this incident even occurred. Though it could be argued that seeing into the future of Twitter is punishment enough.

No, the emotional pleading came from the prosecution's "please send a man you don't know to be guilty to prison, because a CHILD was KILLED with a GUN!" act.

You're misinterpreting me. The pro-Zimmerman supporters are saying this is a victory for the rule of law over emotional pleading...then they turn around and start race-baiting and taunting the other side. That's not part of any rule of law I know.

FlyingJ:photo of Trayvon's Corpse-par for the course, anybody think that Gawker Adam Weinstein's writing seems kind've odd in a fetishy way?-it's like the media wanted their own verdict, damn the jury, & now the media wants a riot

TheManofPA:my lip balm addiction: TheManofPA: Dang, choked in the other thread and I have to wait 700 more posts for the famous Sharknado-Zimmerman thread double

Saw that - you were a few seconds off and came in at 1006. I'll be watching this thread. ;) The #nPo is rolling into MitB with 2 belts y'all and the Rainbow Hardcore that Supercampion is holding is one of 'em.

Nope, I hold the hardcore one now. I took with an epic Sharknado post. It's going to be up for grabs soon, so get to your posts. I've got to write up the MITB guessing game tonight anyhow.

Congrats - I think I am glad to still be able to say I have no farking clue what a sharknado is. Some new B movie I think but I honestly don;t know. I will let Supercampion know he is no longer champ - he got house showed. Well the #nPo still has the Ironman Gredunza - because I hold that one. :)

Can Piers Morgan ever not be a colossal douchebag? Why does anyone who doesn't share his exact views bother coming on his show? He doesn't care what you say, he's just gonna talk over you and not let you answer the questions he asks if he doesn't like the answer you start to give.

MelGoesOnTour:For what it's worth, if Martin was such an innocent angel you'd think he'd have said to Zimmerman something along the lines of "Hey, bro', it's all good and I'm just walking home so be cool" rather than decide to attack him outright. Zimmerman may have been guilty of being too suspicious but Martin pulled the first punch.

He didn't attack him outright. He confronted Zimmerman in his car and Zimmerman wouldn't identify himself. Trayvon then ran away and waited for Zimmerman to follow him, which he did.