I completely agree with Olethros about the Ottoman empire, simply because I'm a Croat, and Croatians are one of the Balkan nations. Nobody knows better than us what an influence the turks had on us (namely destruction and slaughtering).

The only reason turks didn't manage to conquer Vienna was because of the Croats who were used as a cannon fodder by the Habsburg empire. If is weren't for us, Austria would be a completely dfifferent country.

Protector is showing a common ignorance concernig the history of other nations, and he should be thankful on our account that he's still austrian, and not some brown asian with big mustaches.

Croatia was under the Austrian boot for nearly 400 years, and we were nothing more than the cannon fodder for them all that time. One of the reasons that Austria became advanced and rich country is because they had us to defend them, and they almost depleted all of our natural resources in the meantime.

Austria never provided Croatia with military support during the turkish invasion, because they were too busy being scared. Now, I'm forced to look at the ugly alien turkish faces that make the large amount of population in Bosnia and Herzegowina (namely muslims, or "Bosniaks" as they recently started calling themselves).

I apologize for wandering off the subject, but it was hard for me to read his statement. After being a slave for so long, the man should expect at least a thank you, instead he insults us all with by saying that we lived happily under the turks while we bled and died for them.

Thank you, Austria!

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Annihilaytorr

While I admit to being somewhat duped into thinking Summoning was more aware than the rest of the surviving Black Metal bands, I must say I never fell for them hook line and sinker like everyone else did.

If they're not Nazis how the hell did they stumble upon a Nazi video anyway ? Oh, and LOL @ browsing Youtube. They're maybe not Nazis but they're probably gay. Maybe they were looking for "extreme multi-cultural" porn.

There's a long history of people with blinkered attitudes (at all ends of the spectrum) whose creative efforts remain visionary. Obviously, Summoning fall in that camp along with Varg, Euronymous, Wagner, Beethoven etc. Art isn't philosophy, it is driven not by calculation, but by the unconscious. I wouldn't worry overmuch about the public statements of artists for this reason. Their work is what matters, not their social opinions.

There's a long history of people with blinkered attitudes (at all ends of the spectrum) whose creative efforts remain visionary. Obviously, Summoning fall in that camp along with Varg, Euronymous, Wagner, Beethoven etc. Art isn't philosophy, it is driven not by calculation, but by the unconscious. I wouldn't worry overmuch about the public statements of artists for this reason. Their work is what matters, not their social opinions.

In this case I would say the opinion is more illinformed then a case of the guy being a dumbarse. Case in point: the reference to the Ottoman empire.

Judging from his side project, Kreuzweg Ost, which is a martial industrial project and mostly inspired by the rise and fall of the 3rd Reich, I don't think Silenius (the other half of Summoning) shares the same "sensitivities". For sure using samples of WWII German propaganda broadcasts in your music is far from "politically correct". I found an interesting interview of him and Martin Shirenc of Hollenthon (who contributed to the first KWO album) here:

I did not mean to offend Greeks and i know that the Ottoman Empire behaved awful to other countries specially to Greece, and i am sorry for than and right now added those additional statements to my political statement file. I mentioned the Ottoman empire not because i adore it; actually they did nothing else than Hitler wanted to: trying to conquer the world. I just wanted to show that different races can existing in an empire for a long time. Actually turks are originally shamans that where rather blond but due to all the race blending in this empire they now have rather black hair. and btw i did not say that a nation can not survive if it is not multi-cultured.

This also goes for the Jannisary music. not with a single word i said that they where cool. I rather compare them with the SS in the third reich. Some kind of wannabe elite troupe. i just mentioned it because it is the main influence for European percussion sections.

maybe there where other influences on metal music than blues, but blues was the main and the first one. actually "Elivis Presley" learned singing in a gospel choir. so please tell me, what German roots does metal have?

i live in a part of Vienna where i have even more turks than Austirans. i know what i am talking about!

I can not remember when summoning ever did something in order to increase sales, we rather have often problem with napalm records trying to convince us to jump on some trends. Anyway, thats not an argument against my statements. if we would want to increase sales we would use a real drummer, give live concerts and use a real orchestra etc. So better focus on the facts not on assumptions.

During the war in Stalingrad the German soldiers did not have much more than 2 slices of bread each day, The leaders there where rather drinking champagne and having warm meals each day.

Guitars are Spanish as well as Mauritanian. Thats why even "Varg Vikingers" from "Burzum" called guitars "n-i-g-g-e-r instruments" and stopped using them.

Black hip hoppers are for me quite often Black versions of Nazis in many cases, not with a single word i sympathized with them. I even wrote that i don't like Hip Hop.

Sorry about any mistakes i made in that file. German is my native language so mistakes might happen in my text. But thats surely not an argument against the content of my statements.

Silenius agrees with my statements. For non German people the irony inside the music is surely not so obvious, but it is not a Nazi project; otherwise Martin from pungent stench would not have participated in it for sure. And btw people can also be against nazi regimes for other reasons than political correctness. for example during the third reich there were several of nazis resistance groups who rather had an extreme dangerous uncomfortable life than to give up their ideals. did they also do that just for "Political Correctness"? Again more facts less assumptions please.

I stumbled on the nazi vidoe because i like to get informed about people with different views, so i also want to be informed what nazis think. I wonder how anybody can blame me for taking a look at both sides before i make up my mind.

The guitar is a stringed instrument, of a type of which several have existed in Europe. I think until the Spanish retuned it, it was a different instrument.

The modern jazz drumkit was invented by German waltz bands.

Pentatonic music is common to European, Asian and Semitic cultures.

Calling rock "blues" is an overstatement, especially considering that blues could not exist without western musical theory.

I'm unclear on why a band would make an anti-Nazi statement that wasn't necessary to make, and open the can of worms. If they're afraid of the authorities, I can understand.

I am also curious as to why Austrians would want to become "not Austrian" through race mixing.

In addition to other questionable history, I would like to point out that the Ottoman empire collapsed from its own instability in part due to ethnic tensions.

Quote

We stand at the end of the Age of Ideology, which really was amazingly short. In historical terms - a blip. It dated formally from 1789 to 1991. You may argue that it started a few years earlier, but just leave it at that &#8211; the French Revolution to the collapse of the Soviet Empire in 1991. It was an aberration in human history. Future scholars will definitely deem it bizarre as well as deadly, not least because &#8220;reason&#8221; and &#8220;rationality&#8221; culminated in the Great European civil war from 1914 to 1945 that reached it&#8217;s apotheosis in the Holocaust and echoed in Srebrenica in the 1990s -whenever anyone tells me that today&#8217;s Europeans are weak and defenseless, I remind them that Europe is the continent that perfected genocide and ethnic cleansing. And forget &#8220;Eurabia.&#8221; Europeans will not &#8216;go gently into that good night.&#8217; They&#8217;ve simply enjoyed a golden age of peace under the American defense umbrella with Uncle Sam paying the bills. Now, the parties over, but they don&#8217;t want It to end. And, historically, when Europeans are sufficiently provoked, they react savagely. Europe&#8217;s also, by the way, the continent that exported more death and destruction than any other.

Back to the end of the Age of Ideology: In many ways its demise is a blessing, the end of this bizarre human fascination with a lunatic notion that one man or a small cabal could sit down and design a better system of social organization than the vast human collective had done organically over the centuries. If you think about America, the Anglo-America tradition of government, it wasn&#8217;t designed. We glibly reference the Magna Carta as the fountainhead, but, honestly, no one among our political ancestors sat down in the 12th,13th, or even 18th century, worked out a blueprint and declared, &#8220;we need to do exactly this, this and this.&#8221; We learned by doing, by trial and error, and for systems of government it appears to be the only method that results in a healthy state.

It really was an amazing achievement, the development of democracy as we know it, from which we all profited &#8211; eventually. It&#8217;s also a very long and sometimes painful process. The important thing to understand is that the English-speaking world&#8217;s evolution of democracy &#8211; a presidential or parliamentary system was not the work of a lone genius sketching it all out from scratch. There was no five-year plan, no 10-year plan. It&#8217;s too much to say that our system&#8217;s an accident, but it evolved over a millenium. And then you come to 1789, and humanity, much of humanity, falls for this trap of believing that an individual or a junta of intellectuals can design a social system that will work for all of humanity. And, of course, humanity always disappoints, whether it&#8217;s under Marxism or National Socialism or fascism &#8211; the humans disappoint the system. Hitler, at the end of the war, wanted apocalyptic destruction because he felt the German people didn&#8217;t deserve his great vision. What happened when people didn&#8217;t live up to Stalin&#8217;s vision? Or to Lenin&#8217;s before that? When you try to impose an ideology arrogantly designed by man upon humankind, you&#8217;re on the road to Auschwitz, or the Gulag, or Srebrenica, or the killing fields of Cambodia. - some j3wish website

There are many of us who recognize the historical truth and necessity of nationalism, but won't use that n-based epithet for African-American in conversation. Why: we are motivated by sheer realism and not hatred. We are not interested in the Nazi question, but we're also not interested in those who buy into the modern society ideology of humanism, multiculturalism, capitalism, democracy, mass media and other things that empower the crowd at the expense of the intelligent few.

It is odd to see Summoning adapt policies that would eventually lead to the elimination of its members.

Blues is overtly more Celtic than African. Only the roots OF METAL owe to this style of music. Are you seriously asking for proof how the core of your own band, Summoning is European?

i just said that without blues there would be no rock music and therefore no metal and therefor not summoning. so lets change my lines and say metal music is not pure white music, it is a music with multi-cultural roots. i did not say that metal music sounds still like blues i just said that it was the origin,and therefore no nazi black metal band should think they make pure white music because it definitely is not white. so what are actually the Celtic roots in Blues?

The guitar is a stringed instrument, of a type of which several have existed in Europe. I think until the Spanish retuned it, it was a different instrument.

The modern jazz drumkit was invented by German waltz bands.

Pentatonic music is common to European, Asian and Semitic cultures.

Calling rock "blues" is an overstatement, especially considering that blues could not exist without western musical theory.

I'm unclear on why a band would make an anti-Nazi statement that wasn't necessary to make, and open the can of worms. If they're afraid of the authorities, I can understand.

I am also curious as to why Austrians would want to become "not Austrian" through race mixing.

In addition to other questionable history, I would like to point out that the Ottoman empire collapsed from its own instability in part due to ethnic tensions.

There are many of us who recognize the historical truth and necessity of nationalism, but won't use that n-based epithet for African-American in conversation. Why: we are motivated by sheer realism and not hatred. We are not interested in the Nazi question, but we're also not interested in those who buy into the modern society ideology of humanism, multiculturalism, capitalism, democracy, mass media and other things that empower the crowd at the expense of the intelligent few.

It is odd to see Summoning adapt policies that would eventually lead to the elimination of its members.

i am talking about the normal traditional jazz that later heavily inspired the rock drum. and this jazz drum kit definitely uses the turkish bass drum called "davul". and before the guitar was used in european music they used the lute which is a pure arabic instrument btw (oud).

Sorry i did not understand why you mention pentatonic music. Can you please describe it more detailed to me.

Yes it is true that blues also had western influences. So like in the previous statement i would like to correct my lines and say that metal therefore is music with multic -cultural back ground, whereas the main aspect in its history are black blues and western classical music.

It is strange. when "Varg Vikingers" made his rassistic statements although is music was also not connected to politics, i did not hear many people from the black metal scene complain about it. You are right that the music of summoning was never so much connected to nazi ideologies; so why should we have any fear of authorities. why is it so hard to imagine for most in the forum that i have many friends from various countries and really really get pissed of about those neo nazi tendencies and therefore feel the strong desire to make my position clear. why is it only ok for non political bands to say nazi stuff, why not ok to say the opposite? is it also so hard to understand that i dont feel comfortable if people are using my music for spreading political ideas with my music? i guess many in this form who make music would not like if their music is used for j-e-w-i-s, islamic etc propaganda. whats wrong of having ideologies?

Actually most of our typical culture is also forain one adapted by austria. Viennese are so proud about their coffee, which actually came from turkey. and they love their "wiener schnitzel" which is acutally rather chinese. foraign influences dont make a cultur week nor do they destroy their identity. in the end they make it stronger. just see how powerfull metal music became because / despite the fact that it has multi cultural influences.

Yes it collapsed, but as i wrote it lasted 52 longer than the third reich.

And i never understand why many people always think in two-way decision (please excuse my enlish i dont know how to express better). as if you can only be a nazi or a capitalist. behind the third reich capitalism is the most shitty thing fore me. and i don't see nationalism as any opposition to capitalism. the problem about national socialism that their hate focuses on the most week groups that can defend less. this means the pour ones. they did fight capitalism as long as the capitalist was not a j-e-w. german capitalists had a fine life in the third reich. they took away the properties from the jews and finally lived in even more luxury. and during war a lot of huge concerns could very much money by selling weapons. the normal working guy did not have any benefits from it, in contray he had to die on battlefield in order to fulfill the insane world conquering fanaticism of hitler.