There has been quite a lot of talk on the different approach by Microsoft and Sony on the sale of Kinect and of the PlayStation 4 Camera, and Sony’s VP of Publisher & Developer Relations Adam Boyes took a chance to throw a bit of a jab at the competitor’s strategy that ended up pushing the Xbox One’s price upwards.

oh look, peace. easy now, no debating, just read and move along, people. defending the Kinect is Completely out of the question, as well as saying it is inferior, or having any opinion showing biase or favoritism. just say "maybe" and then leave or else it can lead to people getting their underwear in a bunch... /s.

People are getting so upset and all he said is "buy it if you want to, we didn't force it on you" which is nothing but the truth To answer to some people below, Sony thought about including the camera without changing the price, but it was too much of a loss. How credible and truthful that is? as credible as when Major Nelson said that the family planning was not a glorified demo and you would be able to share full games with up to 10 friends, bottom line, we will never know if either of them were being truthful

The only reason Sony did not include the camera was to undercut M$ on price. Had nothing to do with their love for you guys. They had to deal with PS3 being way more expensive than 360. They wanted to be cheaper this go around. That and being first to reveal was their most important goals.

He is doing his job in trying to down play the impact that Kinect is about to have on gamers and non gamers alike. But people will see for themselves. The only people that he has any kind of sway over, are supper loyal fanboys.

"It is there if you want it." So they just built it and put it on sale so if you want a cam like the other guys you can buy one? How about giving a reason to want to buy the darn thing.

@bigpappy You are so full of it, Sony didn't know the price of the One until E3, and like I said, they wanted to include the camera at no cost, all you said about the PS camera could be applied to the first Kinect. BTW I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what NEW AND GROUNDBREAKING experiences Kinect will bring for GAMING EDIT: By the way,I hate how people keep saying that just because Kinect is included, developers will be willing to add features. The first Kinect sold a ton of units,I can't recall any game making good use of it, but , now that it's included it will be the best thing ever... /s

How ever you look at it the reason Sony didn't include the camera was because Of money. Either they wanted to undercut MS or they didn't want to lose too much on a $400 console. In neither your comment or bigpappys comment did the concept of "what does the consumer want" ever surface. Money rules the world. No matter which side of the fence you sit.

As far as the kinect goes I totally agree with postedUp. Don't dog it or even praise it. Just wait and see and maybe try for yourself before you start mudslinging.

You can already see the limitations on the system since they didn't include the camera. Read the PS4 system reviews, the limited voice commands are all but worthless. Look at the way sign in works with the camera and how the new Dual Shocks need to have the colored light to be tracked. It's not just an inferior technology, it is thrown in as a "me too" accessory to try and down play Kinect since Sony has a camera too.

It would be one thing if Sony offered the exact same motion sensor/camera tech and same support but left it an option. What they did was release an accessory with limited support that devs can use if they feel the install base is worth catering to.

OK, great if that's how he feels but why should I care I'm getting an X1 because Microsoft is supporting Kinect and other than great exclusives that both sony and micro will have Kinect is what really separates X1 from the competition. Hell even though I'm not into 90% of the wii u games I can still respect nintendo for thinking outside the box these last couple gens. I love graphics as much as the next guy, I also like new tech that brings new ideas, so I'm glad Nintendo is doing what they do and Microsoft are pushing something other than graphics.

@Bigpappy: Microsoft gave the perfect price point for Sony to include the camera. Sony knew Microsoft wasn't going to charge more than $500 and were genuinely shocked when they announced that price. So if Microsoft charged the most Sony thought that Microsoft would charge, they obviously wouldn't include it had Microsoft announced a lesser price, so at what point do you think Sony would include the camera? They wouldn't, your theory makes no sense and is just a Microsoft fanboy talking point.

I ended up taking the plunge and getting the camera yesterday. Thought, "what the hell", might as well get it while I'm excited for a console release just in case one day I can use it for something.

Tried playroom. Thought it was cute. Can see how kids would like it.

@Death It has limited voice commands, and I tried them, and they do work. I thought, "neat". Then realized I could do those commands faster with a controller in most cases. Trust me. voice commands are going to be a very short novelty once people try them out. The controller is just so much faster to get to your content in most cases. Maybe it would be more beneficial with the snap features on the X1.

On a side note, the camera isn't actually required to do the voice commands, as voice is sound, which is picked up by a microphone, not an optical lens.

The other stuff I can't really say anything about. I don't care about any of it as I auto-log on to my system anyways.

It's not really downplaying Kinect, Sony has had a camera since the PS1. This one just seems to be a step up from it's last one.

It was bad enough before, when everyone was debating everything about the consoles anyway, but now it is just really going too far.

One of the two consoles is out now, and for all your Sony love and MS hate, I haven't seen you make one comment about your new PS4 that I would assume you had on launch day. Instead you are just spewing MS hate and trolling about Kinect.

I can see by your disagrees that maybe even the other Sony fans are sick of your nonsense.

I think maybe it's time to just play some games and give all of this garbage a rest and just play some games, don't you think, fellow gamers??

It's funny. I'm the one everyone has called "Xbot", "MS Shill", and "Xbox apologist". But last night I was playing Killzone Shadowfall with a couple buddies while you were trolling about Kinect.

I'll be glad in a week when the XB1 hits shelves. Sony will likely congratulate Xbox on their launch, and maybe for a little while we can put all of this crap to rest and just play.

I don't know what's so hard to understand. I've been asking for people who say that Kinect is the best thing ever to tell me what's so great gaming wise about it, what's new. Every single Xbox fanboy only replies by telling me how much of a troll I am. I could care less about the stealth disagrees by the way, it just proves my point

And what exactly are we going to tell you that is going to change your mind????

"Nothing" is the answer to that question, in case anyone is curious.

I'm no defender of Kinect. I hated the original Kinect. Never bought one. Saw one in action at a buddies house and thought it was awful.

All of that taken into account, everyone is saying this one is much improved, and it pains me to admit I am actually a little interested in seeing what it can do.

Do I want it in every hardcore game I play? No, absolutely not, but a feature here and there MIGHT be ok especially if it is optional.

I'm more interested in some of the things it can do in conjunction with the dashboard. Skype, for one. I never would have went out and bought a Kinect separately to use for Skype, but since it comes with the Box and all of my friends are also guaranteed to have one, I'm sure I'll use it once in a while.

The facial recognition to log onto LIVE is also pretty cool. Especially how it tracks who is holding which controller and logs in the appropriate person automatically. Again, this is all stuff that I would have probably dismissed had the Kinect been a separate device, but with it being part of the package, I'll use it for sure, and I am actually looking forward to it.

The voice command recording function (Xbox: Record that) to capture a quick gameplay clip is another feature I am looking forward to. After playing Shadowfall with my buddies last night, I know for a fact that I will use that. You can't stop in the middle of a multiplayer match to press the share button and go through the whole process of clipping out the piece you want, but you can certainly say 3 words and then keep playing and come back to it later.

My buddies and I were actually jokingly saying that through party chat last night after memorable moments, anxiously awaiting next week when we can use it for real. lol

I don't know what else to tell you, man. If even a Kinect hater like me can see the benefit of it, it can't be all bad. But I hold out zero hope that it will stop your bad attitude and trolling about it either.

Also, I have a question to shoot back at you, if you don't mind. You keep stressing "what is it going to do for GAMING?", which nobody can answer, because we don't know what anyone will use it for, other than the few things done with it last gen when it wasn't nearly as accurate.

So my question for you is this... What has Sony added with the PS4 that is "new and groundbreaking" for GAMING??

Edit: I love how you instantly hit disagree on anything I post. It lets me know how much you care. lol

For me, having the camera is not the dealbreaker. In fact, I like that Microsoft is including them in every system because devs will use it to possibly create something other than novelty bullshit that we have with cameras now. What I DON'T like is the fact that they can, and WILL monitor you to the full extent that the law allows. That's complete garbage.

I wish Sony would have just stuck with the camera in the box tbh. It could have been used to create some pretty great stuff for almost all games instead of a select few. That's my opinion of course, but if there's a chance some peeps can ENHANCE my gameplay without making it gimmicky, then I'm all for it.

Considering the fact that everything points towards the PS4 having a much larger install base this generation around and it doesn't include a camera you won't see it being utilized in any better way than the old Kinect. The system doesn't even come with a Kinect game, something to showcase this "amazing technology" which makes sense really, the Kinect wasn't created for games cause MS main focus no longer lies with games, it actually hasn't since the original Kinect got released back in 2010. If I was an Xbox fan I would've been so pissed at how MS had treated me for these past years and making a new console which isn't made for me as a gamer; not defending their obvious change in focus.

FYI, I'm not defending anything. I think Sony should have included the camera so more developers would make use of it and the light bar. Idgaf if you're a Sony fanboy and think KINECT IS THE WORST THING EVAR, because the fact of the matter is, it has potential to do some cool stuff if used properly, and I believe Sony would have used their camera in some creative ways.

If the PS 4 would have done this. You wouldn't say this. If you want something to be successful then you have to push it. That's why I admire Nintendo. Every new console they launch the remote takes changes. I was skeptical when they launch the WII with the one handed controller. But when I play resident evil 4 with it. It was the best enjoyment that I had playing it. Same with the wii u. If Microsoft kinetic becomes successful because of Microsoft pushing it then sony will do the same thing. I Own the PS4 but I'm getting sick and tired of listening at Sony leadership down playing what Nintendo and Microsoft are doing. like sony knows what is best for every gamer out there. That is the reason they are struggling badly and if the PS4 becomes a disaster we might not see a PS5. I'm telling you sony right now stop with this crap or you will lose me as a customer. I own every single console from the past 3 gen and that's because they each offer something different.

Invalid, kinect is $100 more all agree, that brings the vita closer and most say they are willing to pay if its innovative, added to the fact everyone always refers to the kinects audio features (xbox on)so whats innovative the camera or the mic..

Well, it doesn't have nearly as many applications as it was probably intended to have, but just because some consumers don't buy the camera doesn't make it useless.

The light bar can do plenty of stuff without the camera. It can shift colors in response to the game and its given atmosphere; it can represent a certain item being used in-game, trying to bring immersion to our living rooms; it can be used for practical purposes, like providing a health bar that visibly drains or tells us what character is playing via color.

Sure, the camera can make it much more practical as a gaming peripheral, but to call it useless is utterly ignorant.

I've never seen someone try so hard to defend an LED on an controller before until I read Rockefellows comment lol. It's an LED. There is nothing revolutionary about it. And the fact that it's on the back of the controller facing away from you makes it's even more useless without a camera. Yea it does stuff but are you honestly going to look down just to see what color it is?

Why do people use this as evidence? They wanted to integrate the controller with the camera, so of course they put a light on every controller. What do you what them to do, put a light on some? Doesn't prove they meant to include the camera.

all the ppl who agreed with you does any one of you have an offical comment from sony that confirm they remove the camera from ps4?!

also the camera cost 60$ add that to 400$ and you got 460$ which is still lower price than xbox one's 500$

EDIT: @gusbricker that prove nothing they designed the dual shock 4 to work with the camera because the camera will be used in games in the future and of course they want gamers to buy it but it still don't prove that sony did include it with the console

Regardless of the 'magic price point' that master eludes to...the main point is yes they had every intention of including the camera with each unit.

there are more factors that lead this to be true due to all the features that are built in to make use of the camera. It would have been nice had they followed through on that. especially considering the previous 2 cameras were released as after thoughts.

this time around, it would have been something that would be supported from the onset. now it may share the same fate as the previous models. or not....depending on how much MS enforces kinect support in multiplat games. there is a chance that those same games could be made to use the ps4 camera as well.

The philosophy...it was going to be in the box, and we heard the price from MS...ditched the camera. It is sooooo clear it was meant to be there day one it silly to deny (I don't believe a word Sony says on this). The controller was designed with it in mind. You trumpeted the camera in February during your reveal and how core it was to the PS4 . They are shipping the console with playroom software designed for the camera that isn't in the box? Just own it Sony you cut the camera out of the box...it was a smart move to get you to $400 price point.

Thing is, even if both these consoles we're $499, they'd still be a good deal. I'm pretty sure we can all agree that even at $499, the XB1 offers a better value than the 360 did at $399 7 years ago. And the PS4 is definitely a better deal than the PS3 was at launch.

I wouldn't have lost sleep over it. Most people are going to spend well over a grand on these consoles in the next 8-10 years. Would paying $499 upfront really have been sooo bad?

Sony could have bundled the camera with a year of Plus for $499 and it would have been a slammin deal. It might have forced MS to bundle in a year of Gold with the XB1.

Because Sony decided not to bundle the camera with every PS4, devs will be that much more resistant to developing for it since most PS4 owners won't own one.

My guess is Sony purposefully downplayed the camera to avoid Kinect 2 comparisons...knowing Kinect 2 outclasses it in every way. Out of all the things the PS4 does "better" than the XB1, the camera is something that it does worse. Sony knew that, so they wanted to lessen its importance by not bundling it.

"Because Sony decided not to bundle the camera with every PS4, devs will be that much more resistant to developing for it"

Thank f*** for that. I can count on one hand the things that devs did this gen with cameras that were actually cool, and the only one that really springs to mind was scanning my face onto my character in Rainbow 6 Vegas. Oh and I think there was this funny thing going on where people playing Burnout Paradise (I think) sent taunting pictures to people they beat in a race, but instead of their face they would send a photo of their ass.

@perjoss I dont know about you, but with kinect their might be some cool party games to have for the family or friends when your drinking. Add the fact that the X1 is more than a gaming console, its a multimedia hub as well, I think the kinect adds amazing value, I love the voice commands and built in features. My wife who isnt a gamer, is really looking forward to the Xbox Fitness regiment she can do now in hte living room, instead of going to the gym.

I read the article and I don't see the "attack". I really don't. He literally said when asked about the camera that we leave it up to those who want it to get it "we didn't force it on you" which is what I am assuming the "attack" comes in. I took it as we are not going to force you to buy something you may never want to use. This is a good approach IMO. Look at YouTube and Google plus...

Simply put, the eye camera has now become a waste of R&D money and shelf space because nobody will ever buy it and no developer will support it. The eye camera is a dead perhipheral same with the move.

Kinect in the box and 100 extra on the price. Totally the main reasons I'm not buying an Xbox One. This is coming from someone that owns and loves his 360 with a library of well over 100 games.

Stupid thing is I really want to buy one but I'll have to stick with my PC and PS4 until Microsoft loses their blind obsession with trying to capture the Wii wave-your-arms-all-over-the-pl ace-like-a-muppet casual gang.

people can jibber jabber all day and say they were going to include it or was going to include the camera but the thing is... Sony was out selling Microsoft with the Playstation 3 at a HIGHER price over Xbox 360 because that's why they got caught in sales.

And, Sony after Microsoft's retarded efforts to take away gamer's rights, would have outsold microsoft with or without the camera and still would have been cheaper with a MORE powerful system.

Taking away gamers rights by adding a clause to your TOS that says you can't resell your games just days before the launch of your new hardware . Then turning around and saying "oh that clause doesn't mean anything. We just put that in there for no reason."

Meanwhile the same company adds another line of legalese to their TOS that says they have the right to monitor audio and video chat, they have access to your camera, and even the right to record your gameplay sessions.

When it comes to gamers rights and privacy neither company is a saint.

With all the problems Sony having with their PS4 at the time he really shouldn't be saying anything about what Microsoft or anybody going they need to fix the let see, Heat issues,Wobbling,that awful loud dirt devil fan and the ton of error codes all up in everybody else business and they putting out faulty hardware and sure you can say well MS had the red ring OK fair enough but Sony has it plus a lot more now

Again, misinformation. Do a search on the internet and you'll find estimates of the Xbox 360's failure rate at anywhere from 30-50% during the height of the "RRoD" issue. Currently the PS4 has less than one half of one percent failure rate, which is hardly the same thing let alone "a lot more". My PS4 is running absolutely silently for me, and the only error codes I'd run into was for redeemable DLC codes that weren't live yet. You're making mountains out of molehills.

I'll find an estimate? LMAO!!!!You Mad bro? lol get over it the xbox had the red ring now the ps4 got the red line its good yours working great but tell that to ones thats posting proof video's of the ps4 tapping out, And how is proof from video's fals info?

@Kurogane: It is misinformation to represent the numbers of PS4s experiencing issues as anything even remotely near the huge numbers of issues that the Xbox 360 had during its first few years. Yes, there are some PS4s that are having issues. All electronics have a percentage of defective systems, which is why we have warranties. PS4 sold over a million consoles on their launch day. Out of those million, there were a couple hundred defective. That's less than one half of one percent, which is significantly less than 50%.

Literally, the Xbox 360 launch units had 1000x more failure. Ergo your statement "MS had the red ring OK fair enough but Sony has it plus a lot more now" not only misleading, but laughably inaccurate.

The ps4 is a amazing console, trust if the machine has problem it ain't rrod serious. The ps4 is built better than ps3. 360 was cheap , just tell by lookin at it.mine works wonderful works better than any console I ever bought so far. The launch games are amazing I'm lovin the ps4!!!

Adam you're making a fool out of yourself. You know that originally you planned to include a camera with the ps4, and that the controller was designed to work with the camera itself. The only reason you dumped it was because you wanted the lower price point. However PS4 owners are not getting the full functionality of the system without the camera. Everything you said was shameful corporate PR spin.

They should have a disclaimer in this article, "Corporate Mouth Piece Alert". There are two reasons that go together on why the PS4 did not come with the camera. They would have had to charge around $80 more for it and they could not justify this cost as it was no where near as capable as the Kinect 2.

What do people expect these guys to come out and say, "We think that it is really a good idea to have all these features that the Kinect offers but our version was inferior and we as a company are really in the shitter financially so we really could not invest in building something that could compete so we opted to not bundle it." Of course they are not going to spin it that way.

This is the same company that initially went in the opposite direction that MS did with Xbox Live. What are they doing now? Trying to duplicate Xbox Live.

I used to be a real die hard Sony fan, to me if it had Sony on it I knew it was the best. Sony's problem is culture of the company itself. This is why they are in such desperate straits right now financially.

Here is what I mean about culture:

They used to make the absolute best electronic gear. It started with transistor radios and the Walkman (it was the best, water proof and damn near indestructible) no one made better TV's. They were top dog. Then they got lax and relied on their name alone and started cutting corners knowing full well they could still charge the high prices that Sony's name could demand. But slowly their quality dipped, competitors like Samsung emerged. People still bought because it was Sony, me included. Sony, instead of saying hey we are having a quality problem or our competition is offering new innovations we don't and we are tarnishing our name and losing trust they just kept on raking in the extra money from the cuts in quality.

Then bang some of us realized we were not getting the premium product for the premium price and stopped buying. The result: their electronics division is in the toilet. Did this change the culture? Nope. They developed a wonderful new product that outsold the king of gaming Nintendo. They were on top of the world again at least in the gaming market.

A new competitor comes along and introduces the Xbox offering a new innovation, broadband online gaming for all the games it carries under one roof. Once again Sony culture decides we are the best and we don't need to change or innovate. What happens? They lose half of their market.

MS invests and takes chances and develops the Kinect and deals with is failings and continues to improve it. Does Sony go balls out to try to compete? Nope, they take the same stance again. Kinect? Nah that is to innovative. You have to take chances in this world and Sony has forgotten how to do that.

The saddest thing is that this time I think that they really would like to be competing with the Kinect but they just cannot do it financially.

So the do the only thing that they can do, try to save face by sending out mouth pieces like this turkey to down play the competition because they really have nothing comparable to offer.

For one the new kinect is far superior to the pseye. Second, all sony did with not including it with the system is gaurantee nothing meaningful will be developed for it, just like the original kinect. I love the fact i will be able to walk in, say two words and my xbox is booted up and logged in to my profile automatically and right where i left off. Sony cant compete with that so they have to send a talking head out to talk crap on it, sad really.

Im sorry but I think he comes off looking like a fool here. After all the praise Kinect 2.0 has gotten, after all the demos showing off its capability, after seeing all the dev support for it (exclusive in most cases), after seeing how integrated it is in everything The One does, their is no denying that its a great piece of tech thats vital to the success of MS's console. Including it in the box is one of the things that gives it its advantage over other consoles.