How do I save a change? Here's what I'm doing:
1. click map in my maps
2. make changes
3. give map the same name, which results in 2nd map with same name.
4. delete outdated map

Here's how I add a waypoint:
Click map in my maps
re-add all data including start and end address and all waypoints (plus new ones) in order needed
calculate
Save map
delete old map

Am I doing this the most efficient way?

08-28-2011, 08:18 PM

Mark Sedenquist

Uh, no, sorry, but you're defeating the system for a lesser outcome.

Quote:

Am I doing this the most efficient way?

Uh, no, sorry, but you're defeating the system for a lesser outcome....

Quote:

How do I save a change? Here's what I'm doing:
1. click map in my maps
2. make changes
3. give map the same name, which results in 2nd map with same name.

This is fine, but I'd make a new name -- Green map #2, or something. You might want to use some former ideas later. I have 163 maps I've created for support purposes -- I can't think of a good reason to delete any of them.

Quote:

Here's how I add a waypoint:
Click map in my maps
re-add all data including start and end address and all waypoints (plus new ones) in order needed

OMG, no. Remember I recreated your map in less than a minute, you don't think I was creating new CPs just for that?

No, look at your left-hand column, this is where all of your personal data (for maps) is stored.

Plus, if you merely reload the page, the start and finish "addresses" are retained. You never have to reload the information boxes more than once.

"My Maps" = the list of saved maps (you've got that one nailed)"My Custom Places" Every CP you've created is stored here. DON'T DELETE THEM! When you open a new route or want to work on a map, you can click on the CP link you want on the map, and it puts it on the right spot. Then you can use it to create waypoints."My Routes" These are calculated routes with no CPs and no RTA RAs. They are the building blocks of your maps. Don't delete these either, just save edited ones with a new name."My Drawn Routes" these are hand-drawn routes.
RTA Library Results: has RoadTrip Attractions -- easier to click on the link than the flag on the map. If I ever get them built, there will also go RTA Library Routes and Maps listed here, that you've chosen to save and use.

When you get the planning process all completed and you're ready to print or share your maps, you can always save with a "pretty name."

Wait until you see the custom printing options, we have. It's one of my favorite sections of this app!

Seriously, you should be able to create new custom routes in less than 3 minutes, if it takes much longer, you're doing unnecesary steps.

By the way, the Draw Circle tool is working correctly. See post #20 for more information.

Mark

08-30-2011, 04:31 AM

Michael Green

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Sedenquist

Uh, no, sorry, but you're defeating the system for a lesser outcome....

No, look at your left-hand column, this is where all of your personal data (for maps) is stored.

Plus, if you merely reload the page, the start and finish "addresses" are retained. You never have to reload the information boxes more than once.

Thanks again for the special attention.

I'm not seeing what you're seeing. When I come in fresh, I DO see, on the left, all my data. I see the 2 maps, 6 custom places, and 2 routes that I've created.

Here's what I experience:
1. refresh screen (for experiment's sake, imagine I was logged out and logged back in)
2. select a map or a route. I see all my waypoints and POIs drawn on the map. The fields below such as starting and ending address and waypoints are empty.
3. Add in addresses for start and end.
4. Drop in a CP
5. Add the waypoint
6. Calculate route.
I get a route from starting address to new waypoint to ending address. The other waypoints in the map are removed from the map and I have a fresh map.
I cannot recreate any scenario where the starting and ending addresses are populated, and the waypoints already defined in the form below the map, so that I can add, remove, re-order. In all my attempts, I've had to recreate all the waypoints. Probably a browser bug.

This is the same for the map name field.

I see your point about not wanting to delete maps. Still, I may revize a plan several times. I'm not sure I want to have to create new maps for every revision, and have the list cluttered with old discarded revisions of a map. The ability to edit a map is something that I recommend be a native feature. Each map should be like a document in a word processor. If I want to keep multiple versions, I "save as...". If I want to edit the document, I edit it, save it, and I know my previous version is lost. This would be a metaphor that all your users are familiar with as they use it every day in all their other applications.

08-30-2011, 08:33 AM

Mark Sedenquist

Approaching an understanding

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Green

I cannot recreate any scenario where the starting and ending addresses are populated, and the waypoints already defined in the form below the map, so that I can add, remove, re-order. In all my attempts, I've had to recreate all the waypoints.

The start and ending addresses fields stay populated if you refresh the page, but don't log out. I think I may have misunderstood one of your previous posts. When you say recreate the waypoints, are you creating the custom places from scratch or using the ones in your list to re-populate the route? If you're using the ones in your "My Places" list that is how this application is designed to run. But you can create a new route with waypoints in a matter of seconds.

The issue of being able to edit an existing map and retaining the waypoints is technologically challenging. For a 45 day trial period, we retained all of the saved points from any route on our database. Hundreds of thousands of data points every day were being saved in this way and our database was doubling in size every 12 days. That proved to be technically unsustainable. So, we're back to using the Google Maps super computers to recalculate the route every time. Essentially every time a route is created or reloaded from a member's list, it is being generated "from scratch" and so that's why there's no "saved" route that you can edit. We've spent scores of hours programming a drag and drop feature that would allow you to drag a route to a new waypoint, without creating a whole new route, but there are serious UI problems with the UI due to the number of times such a route could be dragged and so we suspended for now, further work on that feature.

Quote:

This is the same for the map name field.

Yes, as above, from the point of view of the application, it's a brand new, never-seen-before map and needs a new name.

Quote:

The ability to edit a map is something that I recommend be a native feature.

When we started programming this application in earnest (March, 2010), that was one of my primary objectives, but due to the complexity of how such a routing program works, that ability to edit - save - re-edit and re-save a map still eludes us.

It's not an unattainable feature. One of our goals, is to create a RTA Library of Routes that any member can save (SAVE-AS) and use as starting point to build their own routes and maps. Once that programming puzzle is resolved, we'll add it to the basic tools here. And I agree about the metaphor, I wish the back-end was a easy to implement.

Thanks for your thoughts, this is still very much a beta work-in-progress and the programming staff will take your thoughts into consideration.

Mark

11-09-2011, 02:17 PM

USvisitor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tollhouse

I'm a bit frustrated! I created and then saved a route I made from 4 waypoints. When I went back to add another waypoint in the middle, it will add it to the map with a marker (I first made it a custom place, then a waypoint) but won't change the route to run through it. It treats it as just a random marker on the map, as if the original route is closed and this is a new waypoint to go on a new route. HELP please!

I had same problem today. After spending a big part of my afternoon trying to master mapping job I still don't have my route/map that goes from Chicago to Glacier, then through Grand Teton, Yellowstone and Badlands (National Parks) back to Chicago.
I took a Chicago- Glacier route as my basis and added other destinations as custom places and waypints but they remained just markers in the field and were not connected to the route. I will try again but I give up for today. It's almost midnight here anyway.

OK, editing this to tell you that I just made my sleepy self to go back to what I was responding to (on page 1 of this thread) and read just 1 post futher which explained possible reason. I should learn to be less spontanious reacting to posts :-)

Thanks for attention. I'll finish reading all thread tomorrow and apply things learnt in for my new mapping project. Goodnight.

11-09-2011, 04:57 PM

Mark Sedenquist

It's a problem of architecture

Quote:

Originally Posted by USvisitor

I took a Chicago- Glacier route as my basis and added other destinations as custom places and waypints but they remained just markers in the field and were not connected to the route.

Tollhouse and USVisitor: Thanks for the posts. The way our program calculates the route you need to, in essence, create a new route every time you add a way point. This really is easy -- your Custom Places are saved in your "My Custom Places" list and so creating a new route is simply a matter of clicking on the Custom Places + making them waypoints + adding the start/finish locations and clicking Calculate Route and then saving it. Once your Custom Places are saved -- you could create a new route in about 90 seconds.

To be clear, there is no "effective" way to bend an existing route to include a new Custom Place. We did the programming to enable this -- but I've disabled this function -- It really doesn't work that well. Currently we provide the RTA Custom Mapping program as a free service to our members. But we've considered purchasing an additional annual license from the vendor that would enable us to add more capability -- including adding new Custom Places to existing routes -- but so far, we've not found a business strategy that would lead us to spend $$$ in this way.

The public version of Google Maps does enable some of the route altering options -- but Google Maps doesn't have access to RTA's Road Trip Attraction database.... so that's the trade-off for now.

Quote:

OK, editing this to tell you that I just made my sleepy self to go back to what I was responding to (on page 1 of this thread) and read just 1 post futher which explained possible reason. I should learn to be less spontaneous reacting to posts :-)

I'm not sure I followed this...

Page 4 of this thread, from another member, features another way of describing what I was trying to say on Page one.

Mark

11-10-2011, 07:42 AM

USvisitor

I made it!

I made a map the way I wanted! With some minor exceptions.

I tried to follow Mark's tutorial with some

I started from the fresh map page in Map Center this morning (with my saved custom places and routes still on left side).

Step 1: I marked 8 custom places- for future 8 waypoints.

I zoomed map much more than yesterday and found out that 2 of 3 points I marked yesterday were not on any road although I though they were. This could be the reason I got messages that system couldn't find addresses and make my maps. I used "edit" option to move those poCustom places to better positions.

Note to myself and everyone: ZOOM+ a lot, to get a really detailed road view.

Step 2:

I typed in the beginning and ending cities for automatic route.
I'vebeen thinking how could I make a roundtrip route (a circle) starting and ending in Chicago. I know that I wouldn't get any result if I used same city for both ends. My solution was- a town closest to Chicago (maybe even it's suburb, don't know how it is in US). This way I had 2 different names and relatively same place for the start and the end of my tour. Automatic route was drawn very short of course but that's not a problem at all because next step are Waypoints- they extend the blue line like elastic band making it fit any wishes :-)

Step 3:

Added waypoints. It's really easy to do but again, yesterday I was doing mistakes because I didn't notice where they appear as the list at the same time showing if they are really marked or not (I used to click on custom points several times and thought that they are selected as waypoints only if the info baloon pops up. Today I noticed that each time I toutch the custom point marker, it's name appears on the list called My current waypoints next to the "Select Marker" box. (Silly me!) After that adding waypoints was smoth and fast job. I left the "Optimise..." box unchecked.

Step 4:

I gave my map a name, added tags and saved it.

Step 5:

I picked the saved map from left side list of My maps and added flags with places of interest to it. I know, I could and probably should have done that before Step 4- saving the map, but I was skipping Method 2 for making a route and thought the option "Search for places within 100 miles" belongs to that alternative. When I couldn't find how to add the labels I decided to try that. I didn't take 100miles though. 50 more than enough I think.

Step 6:

I saved a map with flags under a different name. And here is the result:

While adding new custom places I started to experience a strange glitch which is still occuring even after logging off the site and rebooting computer.
When marking custom places on the map we get a table to fill the name, address etc about that place. After filling these for 3 or 4 places I couldn't type in more than a single letter at a time. I don't know how to explain that properly and if it's an issue of mapping software or my computer (I'd think rebooting would have solved the last, plus it's happening only for maps). When I try to type in the info dialog window, each time, after each single letter, I'm "kicked off" the box I try to write in and boxes shown in that dialog window scroll up sending me from the first line to about the middle of the window. To get at least one more letter added I have return to the top of the dialog window again. This didn't happen to anything that I was filling in yesterday. Today it's happeneing for custom places,, custom route- everywhere where we get pop up "speach bubbles" for adding custom information about created object.

Thanks everyone who cared to read this long post now and help with your advice before.

11-16-2011, 10:56 AM

Mark Sedenquist

Are you using Firefox as your brower?

First of all, excellent work creating your map and documenting what you noticed as you did -- that's very helpful.

Quote:

After filling these for 3 or 4 places I couldn't type in more than a single letter at a time. I don't know how to explain that properly and if it's an issue of mapping software or my computer (I'd think rebooting would have solved the last, plus it's happening only for maps). When I try to type in the info dialog window, each time, after each single letter, I'm "kicked off" the box I try to write in and boxes shown in that dialog window scroll up sending me from the first line to about the middle of the window.

This is a recurring bug and it seems to happen more often when using Firefox and/or using a wireless router. Were you using either of these parameters? Just about all of the RTA contributors have run up against this problem. Rebooting helps (as you thought) and weirdly the problem often corrects itself on its own. We've chased this darn issue for months -- We know that some versions of FF are buggier than others -- Most of us use FF 8.0 and it seems to work better. But I can tell you this is a very frustrating and persistent bug.

Thanks for the post....

Mark

11-16-2011, 03:28 PM

USvisitor

I guess it was the second- wireless. I was working on laptop with Google Chrome.
Sorry to hear this bug is so hard to get rid off. Aren't all bugs? :-D

Thanks for explaining and compliments regarding my efforts.

11-16-2011, 03:39 PM

Mark Sedenquist

Chrome is even buggier

Oh, thanks for telling us that.

What version of Chrome is doing this? I thought we had solved that issue.