It said in the KJV <snip>, and commanding to abstain from meats, <snip> So I thought I check out the other versions, the NIV had this <snip> order them to abstain from certain foods,<snip> So I then checked the ancient Greek version (I have one) which when I translated it, it was in line with Young's literal version <snip> to abstain from meats <snip> please note two things here one it refers to meats only and that it isn't a command from someone to abstain, it's a choice for a person to do, which would be a sin.

So it brought me to thinking, how many anti gay, anti abortion, etc. Religious protesters are vegetarians, and hypocrites.

It appears the bibles are written to suit, rather then read literally from the original. I know this isn't news to us, however.

This list has 667 sins, even loving the world and the things in it is a sin, the things in it include family, friends pets, vistas, flora, etc... It beggars belief!

Logged

We theists have no evidence for our beliefs. So no amount of rational evidence will dissuade us from those beliefs. - JCisall

It would be pretty piss poor brainwashing, if the victims knew they were brainwashed, wouldn't it? - Screwtape. 04/12/12

It doesn't say abstaining from meat is a sin; it says that advocates of false belief systems will claim that eating certain meats is a sin. This was probably written to distance Christians from the Jews (though the astute Christian might claim this is an early warning against Islam.)

"Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer." KJV

I don’t think you got that one right. Perhaps sticking with the no tattoos and God hates shrimp? I know there is much more than those two but I don’t think the above is one.

"Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer." KJV

I don’t think you got that one right. Perhaps sticking with the no tattoos and God hates shrimp? I know there is much more than those two but I don’t think the above is one.

Yet the literal translation is "YLT 1 Timothy 4: 1 And the Spirit expressly speaketh, that in latter times shall certain fall away from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and teachings of demons, 2 in hypocrisy speaking lies, being seared in their own conscience, 3 forbidding to marry -- to abstain from meats that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those believing and acknowledging the truth, 4 because every creature of God [is] good, and nothing [is] to be rejected, with thanksgiving being received," it clearly states, being seduced by spirits, and the teachings of demons is a sin, that saying one thing but meaning another is a sin, that not marrying is a sin, that not eating meat that god put on this earth for them is a sin. It is not relevant whether they turn away from the faith. The fact that they could do any one of those, means they are sinning. So if religious vegetarians reject meat they are sinning and they are hypocrites, (which is also sinning).

Logged

We theists have no evidence for our beliefs. So no amount of rational evidence will dissuade us from those beliefs. - JCisall

It would be pretty piss poor brainwashing, if the victims knew they were brainwashed, wouldn't it? - Screwtape. 04/12/12

Oh so you are saying that the vegetarians are sinning? I can see your point there.

However:

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So it brought me to thinking, how many anti gay, anti abortion, etc. Religious protesters are vegetarians, and hypocrites.

Not a one that I know. Most hippies I know are pro-gay and kind of have a live and let live kind of attitude. That or they are to stoned to tell me their stance on such matters.I am not claiming such a person doesn’t exist or that all vegetarians are hippies but you had it painted to sound like these fundamental Christian hippies where everywhere.

Oh so you are saying that the vegetarians are sinning? I can see your point there.

However:

Quote

So it brought me to thinking, how many anti gay, anti abortion, etc. Religious protesters are vegetarians, and hypocrites.

Not a one that I know. Most hippies I know are pro-gay and kind of have a live and let live kind of attitude. That or they are to stoned to tell me their stance on such matters.I am not claiming such a person doesn’t exist or that all vegetarians are hippies but you had it painted to sound like these fundamental Christian hippies where everywhere.

Agreed, when reading it back it doesn't quite get my point across. What I was trying to say was that religious protesters who are anti gay, anti sinner, etc. and are also vegetarians are hypocrites. Hope that clears it up.

Logged

We theists have no evidence for our beliefs. So no amount of rational evidence will dissuade us from those beliefs. - JCisall

It would be pretty piss poor brainwashing, if the victims knew they were brainwashed, wouldn't it? - Screwtape. 04/12/12

Agreed, when reading it back it doesn't quite get my point across. What I was trying to say was that religious protesters who are anti gay, anti sinner, etc. and are also vegetarians are hypocrites. Hope that clears it up.

Perhaps if it was aimed at the Chick-Fil-A guy for claiming that gays should be jailed and donating at least 5 million dollars to anti gay hate groups.

It could be argued that this religious hate monger is sinning because he claims his chicken is 100% whole breast meat when actually there are 52 other ingredients that are far from chicken.

Quote

It’s a parade of industrial substances combined to make a foodlike product.

This made me think, and maybe I'm just confused, but, in Christian doctrine, did all that "sin" baggage come into being after the Fall? I mean, were Adam and Eve supposed to be perfect and not liable to commit any sin other than the one thing they had been warned against (eating the fruit)?

The list does read pretty heavily NT, with all the references to Jesus, but also a lot of OT laws in there.

Point being, I guess, that let's say A&E never ate the fruit, and continued their life of bliss in the garden, would they have continued to live in behavioral perfection, and not be subject to ever feeling anger or to having the occasional spat? And what of their descendants? Would there never be any jealousy or laziness or rebellion among them? Or would these lapses simply not count as "sin" yet, not having been expressly forbidden? Did all these traits only arise in humanity after the Fall? The Bible tells of the change in the Serpent (crawl on belly and eat dust), and of the trials that A&E would have to endure as a result of eating the fruit (toil, pain in childbirth, etc), but does not mention anything like "thou shalt now be prone to committing some sin or another every time you turn around". It's not in the Creation story, anyway (as far as I can see), but maybe there are allusions to it elsewhere. I have never managed to slog my way through the entire Bible, and much of what I have read was so boring that it never really went beyond just looking at the words without a whole lot of comprehension. I always sort of figured that "original sin" meant the taint of that one disobedience being passed down throughout the rest of humanity, but I guess that one "sin" opened the door to all the rest?

Not that I'm expecting it to make any sense, but looking at it that way just makes god look even pettier and more vindictive. And the mythology even more like Pandora's Box.