I don't claim to be an expert of anything, but to be completely honest I don't get how they do, or even know if they do. To me it seems like it would be near impossible for a long-term, monogamous relationship to ever truly last within this kind of lifestyle. It just seems inevitable that the dom/sub sexual aspect would begin to wear on other aspects of the relationship. Also that eventually, once the capabilities of both are fully explored and exhausted, the attraction will die. You will naturally lust for someone, or something new.

Forgive my pessimism which I'm sure some of you will chalk up to naivety, but it's just my feeling that these relationships are doomed from the start. It's a flinger's lifestyle, it's for people who aren't truly seeking commitment. That's my view, anyway. I'm sure some of you will prove me wrong, I'm open to any rebuttal. I'm curious if relationships ever do truly last like this?

Do many of you truly envision yourself as becoming old and grey, still kicking the crap out of your partner, or taking a beating yourself? Treating your SO like a pet, or like a father figure through every chapter in your life? Or do we ever reach a point of maturity where we're tired of head games and cheap thrills, and just want move on?

Your first mistake is assuming people who enjoy BDSM are all searching for the lifestyle you describe.

For alot of people, BDSM isn't an every day part of their relationship. It's something they enjoy sometimes with their SO that never extends past the bedroom.

For some, it's something done once in a while with a professional.

For some here, they are the professional.

For the few that are involved in a permanent BDSM relationship, it's no different to being in a non BDSM relationship. We don't suddenly stop being human just because we enjoy BDSM. Vanilla relationships face the same challenges of waning attraction, boredom, differing interests, growing apart...and BDSM couples have a much wider sexual / emotional dynamic to explore before they get to that point.

The only difference is that a BDSM couple are more likely to communicate issues with their partner and seek advice about problems.

__________________
Bwahahaha NO! - me

The follow you just received is a direct result of the lead you just gave. - my dance teacher (and true for both BDSM and ballroom)

Football isn't a contact sport, it's a collision sport. Ballroom is a contact sport. - I don't remember who said this.

It's a fair question. Your initial post is filled with the appearance of naiveté and lack of life experience. Perhaps that's not an accurate inference, but Stella is not the only one who got the same reading from your post.

It's a fair question. Your initial post is filled with the appearance of naiveté and lack of life experience. Perhaps that's not an accurate inference, but Stella is not the only one who got the same reading from your post.

Ditto. And I'm "young" myself. Or at least (barely) under 30.

__________________As a dreamer of dreams and a traveling Bun,
I have chalked up many a mile
Read dozens of books
About heroes and crooks
And I learned much from both of their styles

I think, as I get older, I actually need more head games and cheap thrills in my long term relationship. Not serious head games, although some long-lasting relationships thrive on a bit of uncertainty and chaos, but the kind of thing that keeps your sex life interesting.

Hell, we have busy lives and lots of things that pull us away from each other. I mean, just the everyday shit -- like homework, and cooking, and house chores, bills, cleaning cat poop, whatever -- so whatever builds intimacy is a good thing in my book.

Not sure if this is a stretch but I just heard Sarah Silverman interviewed and she was talking about getting older and still wearing a backpack. Although she acknowledged it was young-looking, she said something like, what, should I start wearing a purse. Should I get older and become less comfortable?? Well, to that end, should I get older and make my sex life less exciting?? What fucking sense does that make?

I think, as I get older, I actually need more head games and cheap thrills in my long term relationship. Not serious head games, although some long-lasting relationships thrive on a bit of uncertainty and chaos, but the kind of thing that keeps your sex life interesting.

Hell, we have busy lives and lots of things that pull us away from each other. I mean, just the everyday shit -- like homework, and cooking, and house chores, bills, cleaning cat poop, whatever -- so whatever builds intimacy is a good thing in my book.

Not sure if this is a stretch but I just heard Sarah Silverman interviewed and she was talking about getting older and still wearing a backpack. Although she acknowledged it was young-looking, she said something like, what, should I start wearing a purse. Should I get older and become less comfortable?? Well, to that end, should I get older and make my sex life less exciting?? What fucking sense does that make?

This.

The older I get and the more a bout of the in-out sounds peachy, the worse feeling limited to that sounds as well.

__________________If I had my way we'd sleep every night all wrapped around each other like hibernating rattlesnakes.

To be a little more thought-ish, my experience is that people change up.

We all do. All the time, but especially in those decade-long sweeps. I've said that BDSM is a middle-aged game, and I do think that for many of us--not everyone-- BDSM is better appreciated later in life, than in younger life.

__________________"Oh woe, these be perilous times! Children no longer obey their elders, and everybody is writing a book!"--Pliny the Elder, AD76

The question seems to imply that someone might 'grow out' of BDSM. In my experience it has been quite the opposite and I have seen people 'grow into' their sexuality, becoming more confident with previously unrealised desires and entering the scene at a later stage in their lives.

Sex and relationships of whatever form are never a 'one size fits all' and everyone has different kinks and different desires. It is quite possible to have a relationship where you experiment with bondage, spankings and so on without really scratching the surface of, or participating in, the BDSM lifestyle. Some couples may continue to have a hot and passionate relationship for as long as they are both physically able to do so and others may lose the spark somewhere along the way because it takes work to keep that spark alive, whether your preference is for gentle love making with the lights off or taking pleasure from giving or receiving pain.

As with any relationship there are different dynamics between the couple, each having their own kinks and preferences, and as with any relationship, there is the possibility that one party or another might pack up their bags and leave one day because they are 'bored' or they have found something else they want. That's not specific to BDSM. That is just life.

In my opinion a relationship which values honesty at its core, where desires can be freely expressed, discussed and explored has a good foundation for longevity.

My husband and I have been married for twenty-five years. We've been all degrees of kinky over the years, but the only time we got bored was a brief period after our kids were born when we just didn't have energy for each other. We ended up solving that problem by formalizing the M/s dynamics that already existed between us into a framework we could sustain within the changing circumstances of our family life.

Many, many times in our marriage, we could have ended it. All the evidence we needed was at our fingertips. But we didn't use that evidence against each other. And we didn't walk away.

The question seems to imply that someone might 'grow out' of BDSM. In my experience it has been quite the opposite and I have seen people 'grow into' their sexuality, becoming more confident with previously unrealised desires and entering the scene at a later stage in their lives.

Sex and relationships of whatever form are never a 'one size fits all' and everyone has different kinks and different desires. It is quite possible to have a relationship where you experiment with bondage, spankings and so on without really scratching the surface of, or participating in, the BDSM lifestyle. Some couples may continue to have a hot and passionate relationship for as long as they are both physically able to do so and others may lose the spark somewhere along the way because it takes work to keep that spark alive, whether your preference is for gentle love making with the lights off or taking pleasure from giving or receiving pain.

As with any relationship there are different dynamics between the couple, each having their own kinks and preferences, and as with any relationship, there is the possibility that one party or another might pack up their bags and leave one day because they are 'bored' or they have found something else they want. That's not specific to BDSM. That is just life.

In my opinion a relationship which values honesty at its core, where desires can be freely expressed, discussed and explored has a good foundation for longevity.

Communication is always key in relationships. That is what I preach, and I consider that to be true even more so when it comes to bdsm relationships. If the sub does not explain to the dom that, "hey I do not really like where this is going," then the dom could do something very serious in the wrong direction. If the dom does not tell the sub where they want to go, then the sub has no clue what to physically, mentally, and in some situations spiritually prepare themselves for.

It just seems inevitable that the dom/sub sexual aspect would begin to wear on other aspects of the relationship. Also that eventually, once the capabilities of both are fully explored and exhausted, the attraction will die. You will naturally lust for someone, or something new.

.... And this is something exclusive to BDSM relationships HOW? Many relationships end because one starts lusting after someone else, or the relationship grows "stale" or you lose intimacy... That's ALL relationships, sweetie, not just BDSM. I don't know why you think otherwise.

Your post sounds like you look at BDSM as a cheap thrill, like a rollercoaster or a bungee jump. For most lifestylers, that couldn't be farther from the truth. Do you actually know the terms "submissive" and "masochist", "dominate" and "submissive"? Do you know what they mean? They aren't just cheap thrills. They (usually) describe who people ARE. The same way that "lesbian" describes who I am, and will ALWAYS be.

Contrary to what you seem to believe, bdsm isn't just made for quick thrills. There are people who truly are dominate, and who will remain that way their entire lives. There are people who truly are submissive, and will remain that way their entire lives. If two people meet, and find that they "fit" each other, a BDSM relationship has JUST as much chance of lasting as a vanilla relationship.

__________________
....

Quotes from my current in-progress novel:

“I understand. We can take things slow… And okay, that may be the wrong phrase since we’ve already slept together, but the more relationship-type things, I’m not going to push you, alright?”

"Remy gently grabbed her arm and pulled her close, lips meeting softly. I bit my own lip and watched as their kiss slowly deepened, watched as Remy's hand slowly rested against the back of Allison's neck to pull her closer. This was the part where I was supposed to get jealous, right? Speak up, ask what the hell was going on? But I couldn't. I couldn't ruin the moment because no matter what I *should* have been feeling, I wasn't."

"Surely if I was going to be concerned about any of her destructive habits I *should* be attempting to talk to her about the drugs… But that felt like a much more difficult thing to approach then her promiscuity."

There is no shelf life on what arouses people. You like what you like, at whatever age, and though it may be different from what others like.

Think of the foods you love, the kinds of movies you enjoy, the colors that fill your heart to bursting. Picture any of a hundred preferences and passions. Will you dispense with these at some future age?

"You never fail if you know in your heart that you did your best. 'I did my best: that is all I could do.' Are you going to make mistakes? Of course. But it is not failure if you made the full effort." ~ J. Wooden

Long term relationships last when all parties are equally invested in helping it to successfully cycle through the inevitible and realistic ebb and flow of life. I think that a relationship is simply an exchange. A successful long term one needs to be possible, equitable, and sustainable by everyone involved.

This is entirely off topic, and I apologize, but, 4srs ? I had no idea. I would have sworn up and down that you were older (based on a maturity and experience standpoint, so I mean it as a compliment).

This is entirely off topic, and I apologize, but, 4srs ? I had no idea. I would have sworn up and down that you were older (based on a maturity and experience standpoint, so I mean it as a compliment).

I don't claim to be an expert of anything, but to be completely honest I don't get how they do, or even know if they do. To me it seems like it would be near impossible for a long-term, monogamous relationship to ever truly last within this kind of lifestyle. It just seems inevitable that the dom/sub sexual aspect would begin to wear on other aspects of the relationship. Also that eventually, once the capabilities of both are fully explored and exhausted, the attraction will die. You will naturally lust for someone, or something new.

Define the verb "last" in your thread title, particularly attempting to quantify it in terms of your use of the word "long-term" in your second sentence.
Defend your statement that "It... seems inevitable that the dom/sub sexual aspect would begin to wear on other aspects of the relationship." Or should you perhaps have written, "It... seems inevitable [to me in my lack of expertise in BDSM (or other?) relationships] that...?"
Defend your statement that "[It seems inevitable] that eventually, once the capabilities of both are fully explored and exhausted, the attraction will die."
Defend "You will naturally lust for someone, or something[,] new."

Or is it possible that you are projecting *your* immature insecurities about the ability of adults to build and maintain stable and lasting relationships on the rest of the world?

Quote:

Originally Posted by echoplex

Forgive my pessimism which I'm sure some of you will chalk up to naivety, but it's just my feeling that these relationships are doomed from the start. It's a flinger's lifestyle, it's for people who aren't truly seeking commitment. That's my view, anyway. I'm sure some of you will prove me wrong, I'm open to any rebuttal. I'm curious if relationships ever do truly last like this?

Additionally, you claim to be "open to any rebuttal." Why we haven't seen a response from you to anything but Stella's first post in reaction to your OP? Are the comments, arguments and logic presented too much for you to absorb?

Quote:

Originally Posted by echoplex

Do many of you truly envision yourself as becoming old and grey, still kicking the crap out of your partner, or taking a beating yourself? Treating your SO like a pet, or like a father figure through every chapter in your life?

Echo, I am "old and grey, still kicking* the crap out of [my] partner." I'm almost 63 years old, bald, grey (or gray) of goatee and most of my mustache, and a substantial percentage of what little hair I have left. I've had two badly-cracked vertebrae for some 35 years, at least five heart attacks, and within the last month, a stroke. And I still have a double long-gun case of floggers, a double long-gun case of canes and crops, a xylophone bag (don't ask!) of assorted paddles and other impact toys, a violet wand, a cupping kit, waxplay supplies and more, readily accessible under the bed. And yes, those things are well-used.

* - I don't actually kick. The arthritis in my hips and knees would make that a self-defeating exercise. Besides, I much prefer my impact toys (see the penultimate sentence in the paragraph above).

Quote:

Originally Posted by echoplex

Or do we ever reach a point of maturity where we're tired of head games and cheap thrills, and just want move on?

"...A point of maturity where we're tired of head games and cheap thrills?" Oy! Echo, I'm a sadist. I like hurting (female) people. I particularly like doing that through the use of my hands for spanking, slapping, squeezing, and pinching, and the use of the toys enumerated above. I also fit into, on occasion, a subsection of the genre sadist: sensual sadist. I sometimes like to subject my partner to pleasure. Repeatedly. VERY repeatedly. Until to her the pleasure has become painful, or simply pain. Until she begs me to stop, often with tears in her eyes or rolling down her cheeks. (This doesn't, of course, work with every woman; mostly only those who can reach climax relatively easily.)

I've *always* been a sexual sadist, from some of my earliest memories, somewhere around the age of three or four. I expect to be a sexual sadist even as I draw my last breath.

"...A point of maturity where we're tired of head games and cheap thrills?" Sir, you insult me; you insult all of us who have lived in this culture for more than a moment. Yes, some of us do leave the BDSM culture at times. I did myself, for a ten-year marriage. I found myself so unhappy at denying my nature that I almost ate a .357 over it. For the most part, people who "do" BDSM for more than a few months or a couple of years don't really do it out of choice. They do it because it's hardwired into their systems, like intelligence, hair color, musical ability, hetero- or homo- or bi- or a-sexuality. Maybe for you BDSM is "head games and cheap thrills." In that case, yes, you probably will reach a point of maturity where you leave it... but that's because you didn't (don't) live it; you just play with it, like a toddler first finding his/her genitals and fondling them almost constantly - until he/she finds the next shiny new thing and becomes absorbed with that.

__________________4/19/2014: Please forgive typos and other errors caused by only being able to type with one hand now. I *do* proofread, but may miss an error here or there. If/when I do, I apologize.

Legal Notice and Attorney's CYA Requirements: The author of this post is not an attorney, physician, or marital or sexual therapist or counselor (nor does he play any or all of the above on television). All opinions are offered only as the viewpoint(s) of an individual with a certain amount of life experience, and should not be considered to be legal, medical, or therapeutic/counseling advice.

The answer to your question ,echo, is that your answered it yourself, you don't really know much about what BD/SM really means or doesn't mean, you have an image of it, of the dominant man hating bitch in control of a wimpering male wimp sub, the D/s couple where the male dom spends all his time controlling his female sub "slave" and all the other wanky images out there.

The reality is any relationship can get stale, BD/SM or no, and what you focus on is the wrong thing, you focus on the elements of BD/SM, the tools and structures, things like bondage, control games, getting that new high, that new toy.....which is all find and good, but ultimately BD/SM isn't about those things, it is simply about a kind of relationship. The thing about BD/SM relationships is the people figure it out for themselves, whether they simply play at it once in a while, do it regularly, or use something like D/s or M/s in their lives, everyone is different.

Can it get boring? Sure, if all they do is every saturday the sub lies across the bed and the dom gives them 10 whacks with a flogger, and that is it, might grow boring, but so would a couple whose sex life is a 5 minute fuck on sat night after which hubby rolls over and goes to sleep and the wife wonders wtf just happened.

The thing to me that makes any kind of bd/sm in a relationship different is that it takes creativity, it kind of forces it since there are no real rules or instructions per se, and it also forces communication and looking at things in different ways. If anything, BD/SM can give couples a framework where they can constantly change or do different things.....one weekend maybe they will do light play, maybe the next weekend the wife is the cruel bitch mistress (after talking to Stella, of course *smile*) and he is her total slave, next weekend he is the pirate king and she is the pretty girl he took off some british fop travelling on a ship to Jamaica and going to, well, you know *lol*.

The other thing you have to keep in mind is IME few people make this their total life, even the really into it scene people, who go to the conventions and the Mr. Leather and Ms. leather and whatnot shows also have a 'normal' life, they interact, watch bad tv, go to movies, and occassionally go off the deep end and eat White Casltle Hamburgers (someday space aliens are going to come to earth, eat 4 of those burgers, get sick, and destroy the earth in retaliation). Seriously, BD/SM isn't a gimmick, it is part of the relationship, in small or large part, but for few it is the whole reason for being. Even people into this in strong D/s relationships can spend a saturday cuddling in bed or spend the day sitting on chairs outside insulting the squirrels, BD/SM doesn't change all the little things we do, too. As they used to say, don't believe the hype, actually talk to people into it before drawing conclusions..

As far as age and BD/SM, about the only problem is after a while ya start forgetting who ties up who (but even that can be interesting)

.... As far as age and BD/SM, about the only problem is after a while ya start forgetting who ties up who (but even that can be interesting)

__________________4/19/2014: Please forgive typos and other errors caused by only being able to type with one hand now. I *do* proofread, but may miss an error here or there. If/when I do, I apologize.

Legal Notice and Attorney's CYA Requirements: The author of this post is not an attorney, physician, or marital or sexual therapist or counselor (nor does he play any or all of the above on television). All opinions are offered only as the viewpoint(s) of an individual with a certain amount of life experience, and should not be considered to be legal, medical, or therapeutic/counseling advice.