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Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

Not as flawed as saying that because "Danny and West are the leaders and hearth of the team" they are the better players than Paul George.

I guess is going to take some years for some of you to get used to say that Paul George is the new face of the franchise and the quickest you realize it the better is going to be.

I'm guessing that since you put that text in quotations, that means somebody actually said it. I would like to see where somebody within the past month said that Granger and West are playing better ball than Paul George. PR07 is trying to say you could argue that he is the best player based probably on the fact that he is a proven scorer, defender, and all around tough guy. Just remember that where Paul George is right now, Danny was averaging more PPG and was busy bringing in a new era of Pacer basketball and showing JO the door. Don't forget that Danny is proven and Paul George is still in the middle of showing just how great he can be. By next year it won't even be an argument about who is better between the two.

"I've got an idea--an idea so smart that my head would explode if I even began to know what I'm talking about." - Peter Griffin

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Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

By all means let's take a team with a .605% winning record and make trades that sends away a core piece (one who hasn't even played yet) and bring back at best bench players.

For those of you advocating we need Redick because he moves without the ball & can shoot the three point shot and you don't really care that his defense is sub par (that's being polite btw) I want to know where you stood on Mike Dunleavy when he was on the team. At least Mike was also a pretty decent rebounder for his position so at least he wasn't just a catch & shoot guy.

I know some of you (rhymes with Consuela) hated someone they used to call Suckleavy and would ***** and moan constantly about him until he was off of the team. Now you want him back, but shorter with less rebounds? Yes Big Baby is averaging 15 & 7, guess what Troy Murphy avg. 14 & 12 one year for us to but that doesn't mean I want him back on the team either. Neither play a lick of defense and I'm not sure that Davis is much more physical even though he has the tools to be.

Again why does this possibly improve a club that is winning at a .605% clip more than just adding Danny Granger back to the team?

You say you want outside shooting and a three point threat? How in God's green earth is Redick more of that than Danny? Not to mention that Danny can only do EVERYTHING else better on the basketball floor.

Adding Danny for nothing will be the biggest and best move we can make this season. Sure I'd like to be rid of Green's contract as much as any of you would but I would not give up a core player just to be rid of it nor would I get rid of a draft pick just to be rid of it. I guess I'll just be willing to eat the next two years of it or at least year of it when he becomes an expiring before I give up any value just to get rid of it.

Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

And oh boy, an all-star game? I guess Hibbert made one last year but didn't this year, so his time has passed at the ripe old age of 26. You know how flawed that logic is?

It's not flawed logic. It's reality. Just as I've said Granger would never be an Allstar again, and O'Brien will never be a HC again in the NBA. Same applies to Hibbert never being an Allstar again. Best face the realism. Do I like Hibbert never being an Allstar again? NO, but I don't see him ever achieving that status again. With Hibbert having to compete with SF and PF for Allstar status, being selected as a reserve he just doesn't have a chance. True Centers like Hibbert aren't in style anymore, but flashy scoring SF's are as are high scoring PF's who can play Center.

Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

It's so obvious who hasn't watched Orlando play a game this season, except perhaps if they played the Pacers. Reddick is not a poor defender, and he certainly isn't just a shooter. Some of you guys are worst than ESPN with your fabricated story lines about players you have little to no familiarity of.

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Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

So Redick is Dunleavy and Big Baby is Troy Murphy, man some people really need to watch other teams ASAP.

I remember getting s*** for suggesting to bring Diaw here, I also remember a poster that rhymes with "tech" telling me that he sucked and was bad on D, I guess I was wrong because the best coach in the NBA is not only playing him but starting him in one of the best teams in the league, yep that horrible player...

Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

Dude averages as many assists as our starting point guard in similar minutes, shoots 45%+ from the field, ~40% from deep, but he's just a catch and shoot player.

Yeah, JJ's pretty great at creating in pick and roll situations. Like I mentioned before I definitely think he's the kind of guy that puts us in championship contention, but let's face it, we can't get him.

Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

So Redick is Dunleavy and Big Baby is Troy Murphy, man some people really need to watch other teams ASAP.

I remember getting s*** for suggesting to bring Diaw here, I also remember a poster that rhymes with "tech" telling that he sucked and was bad on D, I guess I was wrong because the best coach in the NBA is not only playing him but starting him in one of the best teams in the league, yep that horrible player...

The trade that you suggest would IMHO trade 1 quality Player for 2 slightly less quality Players....which would leave us with the same Starting lineup that we have now....but with more depth in the 2nd unit.

Are you in favor of having a Team with a better Starting Lineup ( as in GH/PG/Granger/West/Hibbert with DJ/Lance/Green, Young or OJ/Hansbrough/Mahinmi as the 2nd unit )?

or

Are you in favor of having a Team with a decent Starting Lineup but with a deeper bench ( as in GH/Lance or Redick/PG/West/Hibbert with DJ/Lance or Redick/Young or OJ/Glen/Mahinmi as the 2nd unit )?

I'm not saying that one is better than the other....I'm just saying that this is what I see in such a trade. We'd essentially trade Granger for more depth in the rotation.

Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

Dude averages as many assists as our starting point guard in similar minutes, shoots 45%+ from the field, ~40% from deep, but he's just a catch and shoot player.

I agree with your overall point, but in our system point guards are never going to average as many assists as others. It's just not the way our offense is structured. Nothing wrong with it, but it's just a deeper look at the numbers.

Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

So Redick is Dunleavy and Big Baby is Troy Murphy, man some people really need to watch other teams ASAP.

I remember getting s*** for suggesting to bring Diaw here, I also remember a poster that rhymes with "tech" telling that he sucked and was bad on D, I guess I was wrong because the best coach in the NBA is not only playing him but starting him in one of the best teams in the league, yep that horrible player...

Hm. I could be wrong but I was always under the impression that Diaw was only a good player when he was motivated. That is, in the past he's showed up to NBA practice after a summer having gained significant weight and not been able to contribute effectively due to his physical condition. But when he was in shape and motivated, he'd be a productive and versatile member to the team.

Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

The trade that you suggest would IMHO trade 1 quality Player for 2 slightly less quality Players....which would leave us with the same Starting lineup that we have now....but with more depth in the 2nd unit.

Are you in favor of having a Team with a better Starting Lineup ( as in GH/PG/Granger/West/Hibbert with DJ/Lance/Green, Young or OJ/Hansbrough/Mahinmi as the 2nd unit )?

or

Are you in favor of having a Team with a decent Starting Lineup but with a deeper bench ( as in GH/Lance or Redick/PG/West/Hibbert with DJ/Lance or Redick/Young or OJ/Glen/Mahinmi as the 2nd unit )?

I'm not saying that one is better than the other....I'm just saying that this is what I see in such a trade. We'd essentially trade Granger for more depth in the rotation.

C'Mon.....

Look I may be an admitted Granger fan/apologist but could we at least be real here. That would be like me saying Danny is a slightly less quality player than Kevin Durrant or LeBron James.

Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

Hm. I could be wrong but I was always under the impression that Diaw was only a good player when he was motivated. That is, in the past he's showed up to NBA practice after a summer having gained significant weight and not been able to contribute effectively due to his physical condition. But when he was in shape and motivated, he'd be a productive and versatile member to the team.

He's referring to me, I said with the Bobcats Diaw sucked. I also took it farther by saying I thought Diaw sucked in general.

Obviously Bill Walton disagree's with me.

Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

To be honest with you guys, I think the Magic turn us down on the vnzla trade idea. They get an unknown health Granger on a huge contract. Big Baby is a huge part of their offense. I don't know why they would want Green anymore than we do. It is not like we are doing them a favor by taking JJ's insane contract.

Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

Look I may be an admitted Granger fan/apologist but could we at least be real here. That would be like me saying Danny is a slightly less quality player than Kevin Durrant or LeBron James.

Okay.....my whole point is that in his trade suggestion....we'd be trading Granger ( a high quality Starter ) for Reddick and Big Baby ( average Starters or quality Rotational Players ? ) and the end result that we'd see.....trading Granger for more depth in the bench....IMHO decent but quality rotational Players.

Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

By all means let's take a team with a .605% winning record and make trades that sends away a core piece (one who hasn't even played yet) and bring back at best bench players.

For those of you advocating we need Redick because he moves without the ball & can shoot the three point shot and you don't really care that his defense is sub par (that's being polite btw) I want to know where you stood on Mike Dunleavy when he was on the team. At least Mike was also a pretty decent rebounder for his position so at least he wasn't just a catch & shoot guy.

I know some of you (rhymes with Consuela) hated someone they used to call Suckleavy and would ***** and moan constantly about him until he was off of the team. Now you want him back, but shorter with less rebounds? Yes Big Baby is averaging 15 & 7, guess what Troy Murphy avg. 14 & 12 one year for us to but that doesn't mean I want him back on the team either. Neither play a lick of defense and I'm not sure that Davis is much more physical even though he has the tools to be.

Again why does this possibly improve a club that is winning at a .605% clip more than just adding Danny Granger back to the team?

You say you want outside shooting and a three point threat? How in God's green earth is Redick more of that than Danny? Not to mention that Danny can only do EVERYTHING else better on the basketball floor.

Adding Danny for nothing will be the biggest and best move we can make this season. Sure I'd like to be rid of Green's contract as much as any of you would but I would not give up a core player just to be rid of it nor would I get rid of a draft pick just to be rid of it. I guess I'll just be willing to eat the next two years of it or at least year of it when he becomes an expiring before I give up any value just to get rid of it.

Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

By all means let's take a team with a .605% winning record and make trades that sends away a core piece (one who hasn't even played yet) and bring back at best bench players.

Well my proposal was to trade Danny and Tyler, are you suggesting that Tyler is a core piece?

For those of you advocating we need Redick because he moves without the ball & can shoot the three point shot and you don't really care that his defense is sub par (that's being polite btw) I want to know where you stood on Mike Dunleavy when he was on the team. At least Mike was also a pretty decent rebounder for his position so at least he wasn't just a catch & shoot guy.

I know some of you (rhymes with Consuela) hated someone they used to call Suckleavy and would ***** and moan constantly about him until he was off of the team. Now you want him back, but shorter with less rebounds? Yes Big Baby is averaging 15 & 7, guess what Troy Murphy avg. 14 & 12 one year for us to but that doesn't mean I want him back on the team either. Neither play a lick of defense and I'm not sure that Davis is much more physical even though he has the tools to be.

Peck I think you need to see Redick play more before you continue with the thinking that Redick is a duplicate of Mike Dunleavy, they are similar on offense but are not close on defense, there is a reason why many teams want him the guy is a really good player.

Again why does this possibly improve a club that is winning at a .605% clip more than just adding Danny Granger back to the team?

We don't know what Danny we are getting, once again you keep thinking of the old Danny.

You say you want outside shooting and a three point threat? How in God's green earth is Redick more of that than Danny? Not to mention that Danny can only do EVERYTHING else better on the basketball floor.

Both players are different, each one of them bring different things to the team, just because Danny does some things better than Redick doesn't mean JJ is garbage either.

Adding Danny for nothing will be the biggest and best move we can make this season. Sure I'd like to be rid of Green's contract as much as any of you would but I would not give up a core player just to be rid of it nor would I get rid of a draft pick just to be rid of it. I guess I'll just be willing to eat the next two years of it or at least year of it when he becomes an expiring before I give up any value just to get rid of it.

Of course you are going to say this, I mean as you keep saying you are a Danny fan/apologist, I'll be surprised if you don't say this.

By the way Peck, there is not reason for you or anybody else to get all upset about somebody suggesting something you don't agree with, this is an open forum for a reason.

Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

To be honest with you guys, I think the Magic turn us down on the vnzla trade idea. They get an unknown health Granger on a huge contract. Big Baby is a huge part of their offense. I don't know why they would want Green anymore than we do. It is not like we are doing them a favor by taking JJ's insane contract.

The Orlando Magic insider told me that Orlando would not do it because they don't want a player with knee problems, plus the money he is making, it makes sense that Orlando would not do that deal, they would be giving up to good starters for an injured player and a backup power forward.