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Topic: A Nonpartisan Question of Behavior (Read 854 times)

I hope this is the right category to post this in. I was asked to post this question prompted by activity on another venue. This is a serious question brothers and sisters, not one intended to instigate political infighting, so please don't post if you can't be fair, honest and civil.

Number one, I hate politics. But I have been reading, listening and examining day after day the antics of our current President. It's been many months now. I just feel there must be some rational explanation of why President Donald Trump gets away with constant belligerent, needling, anti-social, rebellious, goading, disagreeable, disruptive and provoking to anger behavior that no other politician could get away with? And additionally for this thread, especially with Christians who I assume know that this is strictly forbidden by God for those appointed to lead? Moreover, is his behavior affecting the people's behavior on both sides? This is a serious bible question that puzzles me to no end.

I would ask the moderator to Please, PLEASE delete all replies that aren't on topic, or that are simply name calling meant to inflame rather than address this sincere question. I hope you will take this seriously and answer with wisdom and grace.

Nina, the answer is human nature. The nature is sin. Why does anyone get away with bad behavior? Why do your children get away with bad behavior? Why do criminals get away with bad behavior? Because people, parents, society allows them to. Not rocket science.

Am I allowed to put forth probably a inconvenient truth? Maybe it's because Christians value their politics more than they value your god's laws? I know that's not what Christians want to hear but that's the way I see it from an observer's perspective. Maybe you should deal honestly with things that are inconvenient. Like maybe Christian obedience is often dependent upon their own discretion. If you can obey or not obey depending upon what you think of a person, doesn't that make god's law no law at all. Inconvenient for Christians, but I believe it is an honest evaluation.

Am I allowed to put forth probably a inconvenient truth? Maybe it's because Christians value their politics more than they value your god's laws? I know that's not what Christians want to hear but that's the way I see it from an observer's perspective.

Actually, I would agree (surprised) that in some cases that is true. But it's not Christians, it's some "Professing Christians." Which could be anyone from Benny Hinn and Jim Jones to a bomber at a abortion clinic. There is a difference between "Professing Christians" and those born from above to actually have Christ as Lord of their lives. Your problem (and many like you) is discerning the difference. That's like me saying no Democrat is a Christian. That would be a ignorant comment based on a vast unbiblical generalization.

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Maybe you should deal honestly with things that are inconvenient. Like maybe Christian obedience is often dependent upon their own discretion. If you can obey or not obey depending upon what you think of a person, doesn't that make god's law no law at all.

No, it doesn't make God's law not a law, it makes those doing it not a Christian, no matter how much they protest that they know Christ. We have God's law as judge.

1Jo 2:4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Now there is an inconvenient truth for imaginary Christians.

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Inconvenient for Christians, but I believe it is an honest evaluation.

Number one, I hate politics. But I have been reading, listening and examining day after day the antics of our current President. It's been many months now. I just feel there must be some rational explanation of why President Donald Trump gets away with constant belligerent, needling, anti-social, rebellious, goading, disagreeable, disruptive and provoking to anger behavior that no other politician could get away with?

Nina,

Jer 12:1 Righteous art thou, O LORD, when I plead with thee: yet let me talk with thee of thy judgments: Wherefore doth the way of the wicked prosper? wherefore are all they happy that deal very treacherously?

Although we are finite and may not be able to give a reason for all God's actions in allowing wicked and deceitful men to rule and, like Jeremiah we know and confess God to be just and righteous in all his doings, and all things work together for good to those who love God. In practical terms, as Tony Warren said, we don't condone or support such base behavior, but we also don't rebel against those God places in power. The rich and wicked may seem to prosper, but we (true Christians) know that God is still on the throne and is in full control. In the end everyone, including "professing Christians" get their just deserts.

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And additionally for this thread, especially with Christians who I assume know that this is strictly forbidden by God for those appointed to lead? Moreover, is his behavior affecting the people's behavior on both sides? This is a serious bible question that puzzles me to no end.

I'm sure it does have an affect on others who will undoubtedly learn and mimic this behavior, and I think we are seeing some of that in society almost as if bad behavior is now in vogue. I've seen this coming for the last 5 or 6 years. People are no longer civil anymore, but now it's gone to new heights. Just as when a child may mimic their parents, pears or friends who act in ungodly ways. It spreads like some sort of infirmity. Who is it that said, "you lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas."

Maybe you should deal honestly with things that are inconvenient. Like maybe Christian obedience is often dependent upon their own discretion. If you can obey or not obey depending upon what you think of a person, doesn't that make god's law no law at all.

No, it doesn't make God's law not a law, it makes those doing it not a Christian, no matter how much they protest that they know Christ. We have God's law as judge.

1Jo 2:4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Now there is an inconvenient truth for imaginary Christians.

As usual Reformer, you put things into real Christian perspective, using the bible rather than political rhetoric. Not everyone that says Lord, Lord, has God as Lord of their lives. That's why they justify deceit, lies and bad behavior. To me this just confirms what we already knew, that less and less Christians have Christ as Lord of their lives.

Dan, you George and Aquatic need to actually start listening before you post. Then you would get the import of the message that you scanned over. Or are you saying you don't keep God's commandments, and thus you are not a true Christian?

The topic is on the question of deceitful and dishonest behavior, unchristian behavior, and why some Christians would accept it. Do you have anything constructive to add as to why, beside partisan politics?

Actually, I would agree (surprised) that in some cases that is true. But it's not Christians, it's some "Professing Christians."

Yeah, but it's a lot of professing Christians that will justify evil. It's not like it's one Christian or a few professing Christian, it's usually a whole group. Many times committees, whole communities or counsels and preachers coming together. So even though you may not be in the particular Christian group, don't you see how people like myself or those on the outside would see this whole "moral high ground charade" as hypocritical. If they won't abide by the law themselves, why would anyone think them honest or holy? It's not like we haven't seen hypocrisy before. Didn't your Christ condemn hypocrisy? All I'm saying is, Christians should wash their own hands before telling others like myself about our dirty hands.

Reformer, why don't you make it clear that you don't think conservatives are Christian.

I'll make it clear, but I thought I already did. I don't think conservatives are Christian. I don't think moderates are Christian. I don't think liberals are Christian. Neither Republicans, Democrats or Independents. I think Christians are Christian. I'm non partisan, like Christ. I think true Christians are those who are born of the spirit of God, not man.

Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Christians aren't the Rich or the Poor, Socialite or Commoner, Democrat or Republican, Liberal or Conservative, Black or White, Socialist or Capitalist, Calvinist or of Lutheran, Baptist or Presbyterian, Bondman or Freeman, because with my God Christians are all one in Christ Jesus. I don't make distinctions of Christians based upon some arbitrary political label. In fact, I don't care what label you place on yourself, the only question I have about someone being a Christian, is Christ Lord of their lives or are they under strong delusion about Christianity where I must in conscience separate myself from them.

Reformer, so am I to read that you are saying those of us who are conservative Christians who support conservative values are not Christian?

Why would I say that when I'm conservative? Or shall I just show you your own post where you once said that I was "way too conservative?" How soon they forget!

But in regards to this question, real conservative Christian values are not found in being ignoble, disingenuous, duplicitous or justifying the unrighteousness of men on any side. I find that behavior by professing Christians deplorable and despicable. No matter what party, label or group name is placed on it.

So what I'm saying is the same thing that I, and others here like me have said here for years about "Professing Christians" who are not actually Christians. Because yes, they do exist. They talk a lot about world governments, their personal finances, the different races, their nationalism or patriotism, they whine about taxes, about liberals, evil parties and the place the nation of Israel on a pedestal, but they don't talk very much about the Christ, love, the great commission, the discernment of the spirit and obedience to his word. Their head is in the clouds rather than in the spirit.

What I'm saying is that those "Fake Christians" who routinely practice deceit, justify obstinate wickedness, are unscrupulous opportunists, are careful about the things of this world, are arrogant in spirit, that use deception as justifications, that are always dishonest in discourse (Bible or Otherwise), that give approval (Tacit or Otherwise) to blatant lies, that are complicit in deliberate distortions, etc., are not fooling anyone but themselves as far as being God Fearing Christians. What did Tony say before?

Da 5:27TEKEL; Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting.

That's what I'm saying. God has a righteous balance, self righteous man does not. I'm saying God is not blind to Christian deceit, no matter what it's wrapped in. I'm saying a tree is known by its fruits, not by its worldly Partisanism. These false Christians, left and right, can fool themselves very easily because they travel in groups just like themselves. But they can't fool God. He knows who has his spirit because after all, he gave it to them.

Heb 4:13Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

So, we can call a lie "an alternative fact" and weave the Bible all we want, but God is not mocked. Like I said, Many will say to the Lord in that great day, "Lord, Lord, have we not in thy name done many wonderful works?" But Christ will say to these pretenders, depart from me, I never knew you. Why would he say that if they were truly Christians, followers of Christ, and if He was really Lord of their lives and they were really his servants? He inspired that written so that we might "see" and not be deluded.

Lu 6:46And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Why? That's the question for all false Christians.

So that's what I'm saying. You do know what the word LORD means, right?