But....but, Fencers, it's dead! Clearly, because it's not a copy-paste of other popular MMO's, it's a massive failure. All those other people must be bots, then. Oh wait, ANet cracked down on bots big time....then....then, I have no explanation for all these characters you are seeing, so [insert random insult here]!

---------- Post added 2012-11-10 at 02:15 PM ----------

And here come the personal assumptions. You never did explain why you post here if you don't play GW2. What cold numbers? Please, show me.

Don't pretend that people are putting GW2 down because it's not a clone of other MMO's.
The criticism comes from what the game is in itself, not from what it isn't and never was expected to be.
That's too easy an argument, and an elitist one at that too. Do you really think you're the only one capabel of judging the game for how it's different from other MMO's? Get over yourself please.

Then I went to Lornar's Pass, and it was void of people. It really varies from zone-to-zone.

Timberline Falls is like that too.

The personal story sorta leads you to the "inbetween" zones like LP and TF. But it's pretty clear you can see the most directly accessible zones are lopsided population wise. Like Dreadhaunt right off Hoelbrak, Kessex off QD -> GF. BTC to SFF is still the quickest path to Orr. If CoE wasn't in Malestorm I am not sure the Lornar's -> Timberline -> Maelstrom run up to Orr would even have 1/3rd of it's already low population.

Frostgorge is pretty accessible north of Wayfarer. Iron Marches/Field of Ruin is just sad. -_-

The server I'm on is still bustling during all hours of the day. Hell even the low level zones are filled with people.

My experience on about 4 servers by now, is that the lowest zones are populated, Orr is crowded, and most zones in between you're more alone than not. Especially once you actually go do the ifmamous exploring and completion everybody is so hot about.
I truly find the mid level zones rather empty these days, very different from the first weeks of the game I'm sure.

First of: people like me are not bashing OTHER games, we are playing GW2 just like you. Our opinion is as much based on our gaming experience as is yours.
We are critical of the game we play, or played... You make it sound like it's non-GW2 players doing the criticising by saying they bash 'other' games.

Second: you have a verysilly way of defining what people should mean by saying GW2 is 'dead'. Of course 'dead' is technically not with anything alive.
You know well enough you are deliberately missing the point here.
In your definition it wouldn't be dead untill the last ever player never logs in again.
Well, by that same definition it was dying the moment someone logged out... Because if a game isn't dead when someone logs in, it's dying when someone logs out or worse: stops playing. The reasoning you put forward is absurd and besides the point. And you should know this.

You know what people mean when they say a game is dying, don't pretend you don't just to win an argument.

I'll tell you something I find rather suspicious and noteworthy myself: how come GW2 needs these shining white knights to go on forums and defend their game with rather irrational arguments, just like you just did?
I sometimes see rational arguments, but mostly I see the same old arguments that are nothing more than 'I like it and I see many others playing'.

Personally I'm trying to hold a genuine discussion on what could be improved in the game, on what the state of the game currently is, on how it did or did not disapoint people. That's not bashing, that's called 'being critical'.
And it just so happens that being critical is a far more superior way of thinking in my book, than trying to shut the critics up by wordgames.

Umm, I wasn't replying to any post of yours, so what is all this about? You're making a lot of assumptions yourself. No, I don't consider any game "dead" until it's void of players, or shut down. City of Heroes is dead, for example. That's how *I* perceive something as dead, so don't put words into my mouth.

You find it suspicous that I post positive things about a game I enjoy? Are you paranoid? No, I am not affiliated with ArenaNet or NCSoft in any way. I am a regular person, posting on a forum of a game I enjoy. I did the same during my time in WoW, and nobody threw these assumptions at me then.

I know what the average person means when they say a game is "dead", I just don't agree with it. I do log in every day, and I always see a lot of people. I'm in a very active guild, too. It's hard for me to agree the game is "dead" when I'm surrounded by people and constantly running dungeons/WvW with friends and guildmates.

Also, most of the assumptions I've read that people have made about GW2 "dying" have been either; "It's not like WoW," "It sucks", or "It's boring". I'll take "it's boring" as legitmate, because not everyone likes the same things. The other two "arguments" are weak and biased.

Believe it or not, there are things about GW2 I do not like, but, it's not enough to make me quit the game. I don't like that you can't preview armor on the TP. I don't like that as a Mesmer, I am limited on speed boosting abilities (unless I use a focus, which is crap). I don't like Orr. As a matter of fact, I HATE Orr. I do it to get karma, and map completion, that's it. Otherwise, I avoid it. These are just a few things I dislike, so you can stop calling me a "white knight" now.

They really need to fix the slow player loading. I love seeing other players online, but now I can't even seem to see other players if I don't stand directly next to them. If I stand down at the mystic forge, I can't see players up at the bank, and if I just walk up that small stair going to the bank, all the people at the mystic forge disappears, it's sad.

Guild Wars 2: Over 2 million sales since purchasing was made available. Over 2 million created accounts since purchasing was available. Doesn't show the accounts of people who left GW2 and never returned.

Mists of Pandaria: 2.7 million sales in just the 1st week. Over 10 million paid and active accounts.

Damn you, numbers!!

For all I know, you made up these numbers. Where did you get them? Do you have a source? Also, why even bring up MoP? You're turning this into a game vs. game debate....

Don't pretend that people are putting GW2 down because it's not a clone of other MMO's.
The criticism comes from what the game is in itself, not from what it isn't and never was expected to be.
That's too easy an argument, and an elitist one at that too. Do you really think you're the only one capabel of judging the game for how it's different from other MMO's? Get over yourself please.

Umm, someone in this thread said GW2 was a failure because it's not like WoW. Go back and read. I can link it, if you'd like. I didn't make that up, I was only responding to what people have said on these forums over and over. Anyone who frequents these forums will back me up on this.

Umm, someone in this thread said GW2 was a failure because it's not like WoW. Go back and read. I can link it, if you'd like. I didn't make that up, I was only responding to what people have said on these forums over and over. Anyone who frequents these forums will back me up on this.

---------- Post added 2012-11-10 at 02:30 PM ----------

But where is your proof that GW2 has lost a lot of players? Where are your numbers for that?

Lost ?! I didn't mention any number of lost customers. I just said that the "over 2 million" accounts also include those of people who left, meaning that the 2 million number is not the real amount of people who still play GW2, while the 10 million wow accounts are real as they are paid for, and I doubt people who left an MMO continue to pay their sub.

I pretty much stopped playing because the game is just so damn anaemic. I can't think of any MMO that has ever felt as superficial as GW2.
Hopefully it'll get fleshed out as there's a lot of potential to the game, but in all honesty, I'm not holding my breath.

Umm, I wasn't replying to any post of yours, so what is all this about? You're making a lot of assumptions yourself. No, I don't consider any game "dead" until it's void of players, or shut down. City of Heroes is dead, for example. That's how *I* perceive something as dead, so don't put words into my mouth.

You find it suspicous that I post positive things about a game I enjoy? Are you paranoid? No, I am not affiliated with ArenaNet or NCSoft in any way. I am a regular person, posting on a forum of a game I enjoy. I did the same during my time in WoW, and nobody threw these assumptions at me then.

I know what the average person means when they say a game is "dead", I just don't agree with it. I do log in every day, and I always see a lot of people. I'm in a very active guild, too. It's hard for me to agree the game is "dead" when I'm surrounded by people and constantly running dungeons/WvW with friends and guildmates.

Also, most of the assumptions I've read that people have made about GW2 "dying" have been either; "It's not like WoW," "It sucks", or "It's boring". I'll take "it's boring" as legitmate, because not everyone likes the same things. The other two "arguments" are weak and biased.

Believe it or not, there are things about GW2 I do not like, but, it's not enough to make me quit the game. I don't like that you can't preview armor on the TP. I don't like that as a Mesmer, I am limited on speed boosting abilities (unless I use a focus, which is crap). I don't like Orr. As a matter of fact, I HATE Orr. I do it to get karma, and map completion, that's it. Otherwise, I avoid it. These are just a few things I dislike, so you can stop calling me a "white knight" now.

I replied to a specific post you wrote, I quoted it.
Read that post again, with an open mind if you can (very hard to do with your own posts, it is for everybody, including me and you)

That post started with a rather irrational sneer at people complaining about GW2. And than you had the theory about a game not being dead.

I really can't see that post I quoted as being objective or rational, sorry.

My reaction is to that particular post. If it isn't representative of what you wanted to express: than I gladly stand corrected on you as a person, but less on the post itself even after re-reading.

Lost ?! I didn't mention any number of lost customers. I just said that the "over 2 million" accounts also include those of people who left, meaning that the 2 million number is not the real amount of people who still play GW2, while the 10 million wow accounts are real as they are paid for, and I doubt people who left an MMO continue to pay their sub.

Well then for all we know, 1000 people have bought it and not returned. Those are the numbers I wanted to see, but since they aren't out there, we won't know for sure. All I can say is the game is very populated. I log in every day, and I never see it devoid of players.

I'm not sure why anyone is bothering to reply to VibrantViolet, all she's doing is trolling/playing devils advocate/insulting while providing no information of her own "Your opinion is invalid, your information needs more sources, only my opinion is correct!"

At least Fencer has valid points and can reply to posts without sounding offended every time.

I will say (having played recently) that even though Orr is packed, you have to watch the players to see what they're packed with. The majority of them on my server (the now dead HoD) are nothing but bots (it's pretty obvious when they're all Rangers/Warriors and do nothing in-between events other than stand around attacking anything near them). It doesn't really seem like ANet has the support staff to be able to keep up with banning all of them.

As for the lower level zones, I had to help my friends through numerous events (they were still learning the game/sucked) because there was no one else around to help and they were too hard solo (too many mobs in an area, getting overwhelmed easily by yourself with crap gear and etc.). It wasn't a fun experience for either of us (because it's almost penalizing to be in lower level zones as a higher level) and something ANet needs to address if they want to continue to draw in new players.

Please do not insult or engage in name calling of any kind on the forums. Infracted.

Lost ?! I didn't mention any number of lost customers. I just said that the "over 2 million" accounts also include those of people who left, meaning that the 2 million number is not the real amount of people who still play GW2, while the 10 million wow accounts are real as they are paid for, and I doubt people who left an MMO continue to pay their sub.

I hate fueling this trolltastic game vs. game debates, but WoW does not have 10 million players paying $15 a month. This has already been discussed many times. That 10 million number includes Chinese players who do not pay by the month, but rather buy game-time (I believe in the form of hours). Blizzard includes any account that bought game time within that month to be an "active subscription." That means if you bought 1 hour of game time to chat with old friends, you're now in that 10 million number.

Now who's spouting conspiracy theories?
Get off the idea that anyone being critical of GW2 is trying to ruin the game.

And sorry: the game isn't doing so well. It's doing decent at best.

Pvp wise even the paid tournaments didn't help that much.
For a game that was sold as a pvp game, that even talked of going e-sport, it delivered very little in terms of pvp.

Even if you disagree, you still can't deny many people are disapointed with pve at 80 as well.
Not everybody of course. But still rather a lot of complaints going around I would say.

The game isn't growing, it's mostly consolidating on a small but loyal playerbase.
My guess is that that won't suffice in the long run, but actually I hope I'm wrong.
So I disagree on the game doing so well. It takes rather low standards to claim that.

do you keep a daily chart of gw2 sales worldwide or something? or can you just link us where is it that you can see actual figures of servers population and their evolution since launch? or are you barely pulling crap out of nowhere?

no matter the game, you'll always find people who won't like it anyways, even if the game is considered successful by those who just like it.
i find skyrim to be a boring pile of shit filled of glitches and bugs. i don't know how many people love this game but i'm sure there's a lot of people that are probably still wasting their time on it. good for them, but i don't care one bit.

also, would you mind quoting any anet dude who said gw2 was going to be a pvp game again? guess you won't because they just never did.
and while i would agree gw2 won't make it as an e-sport as it is now. the current pvp is pretty nice imo even if it needs few adjustments and more importantly more variety via the addition of new maps and modes (GvG, HA, AvA or new ones?). but hey the game is still young, so i'm just waiting to see what they're gonna make of it.

once again, it's fine to not like gw2 as it is, and it was pretty obvious from the start a lot of people jumped in the bandwagon without even trying to look for a few facts about the game and just ended up disappointed/bored. too bad for them.

I'm not sure why anyone is bothering to reply to VibrantViolet, all she's doing is trolling/playing devils advocate/insulting while providing no information of her own "Your opinion is invalid, your information needs more sources, only my opinion is correct!"

I'm not trolling. Where you got that, I'll never know. I never posted anything a "troll" would post. I didn't insult anyone at all. When someone make a reference to numbers, yeah, I want to see the proof. I'm not going to believe some random numbers in a post until it's backed up. I could say, "Guild Wars 2 has 5 million active players currently," would you believe it without proof? I hope not.

GW2 was the first mmo I ever quit after only 2 weeks play, even crappy swtor I managed to last 2months, putting it simply theres nothing todo compared to a traditional endgame mmo. doing questing in lower lvl zones and experiencing events again and again soon grew old for me and the dungeons were sadly a noob corpserunfest, watching the bosses and mobs ping ponging around the room/area is beyond terrible game design(I always play a healer so stand at the back and its clear to see, people not taking care of own debuffs and healing self).