Copper Projectile - Raw Material

Copper Projectile - Raw Material

Copper Projectile - Raw Material

I am just reaching out to anyone who may have knowledge of the best supplier for raw material rod in pure copper. I need the best pricing. Does anyone have experience in this area? We are going to make projectiles for bullets.

Thanks,

Brent

RE: Copper Projectile - Raw Material

Preface: I have nothing constructive to add to your request. Out of curiosity though, what caliber are you looking at? I've only ever heard of machined copper being used for fairly large sized, high precision rounds.

Aidan McAllister
Metallurgical Engineer

RE: Copper Projectile - Raw Material

There is a new company started with a large customer base requesting a unique bullet with unique features for this bullet. Mostly, it is unique geometry that sets it apart, but another request is that it be pure copper. The entire projectile will be machined. I am looking at quoting .375 and .500 diameters for 9 mm through 45 cal. I am hunting for a good raw material resource. Currently getting quotes from many, but did not think it would hurt to toss a note out here and see if anyone deals with copper rounds.

RE: Copper Projectile - Raw Material

TheTick - Pure copper meaning C11000, which is 99.9% copper. This is a grade currently in use for certain hunting, long range, bullet splits to 4 paths for a better kill %. There are also self-defense and police tactical bullets that will be produced from these as well, most all with the 4 path once bullet engages its target.

RE: Copper Projectile - Raw Material

Copper.org only lists about a bazillion copper alloys, most of which are easier to machine than pure-ish copper, and some of which are readily available in bar stock of the size you want.
Some research there, and discussion with your metal suppliers, should help you propose a few alloys that will be easier to deal with for you, and may better meet your customer's actual requirements, which seem a little fuzzy, so to speak.

RE: Copper Projectile - Raw Material

"...Pure copper meaning C11000, which is 99.9% copper..." sounds like a waste of "pure" copper for the intended purposes. All bullets that I have bought over the years for reloading purpose were copper clad.

RE: Copper Projectile - Raw Material

Solid copper projectiles are used for a number of reasons.
-They are easier to make than a copper-jacketed lead-core bullet. Less overhead required.
-The solid copper projectiles expand with more consistency than lead-core bullets that have copper jackets. (allowing design features that would potentially hinder a lead-core copper-jacket bullet)
-They don't fragment as badly when impacting bone or intermediate materials like denim.
-Some jurisdictions restrict the use of lead-projectiles

Solid copper projectiles have a lower cross-sectional density, so a bullet for a given caliber will be longer than if it were lead-core and equal in mass. This allows a shape that has more gradual curves and better ballistic coefficient without sacrificing velocity. It also allows for a projectile that deforms to a larger cross-sectional area when it impacts the target. Again, all without sacrificing velocity.

RE: Copper Projectile - Raw Material

Shooters have also been known to use bronze, bismuth, brass, tin, and yes, even the proverbial silver bullets. It's no different than any other area of interest. Experimentation with different materials to observe their performance and outcome. The question is not why, it's "why not".

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.

RE: Copper Projectile - Raw Material

Yes, frangibles generally do start off with powder/granular feedstock and are compacted to some degree of incomplete cohesion. They are more for airborne security and sensitive area applications than what a solid would be appropriate for. I think the OP is going after maximum wound channel and controlled distortion, not disintegration.

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.

RE: Copper Projectile - Raw Material

Distortion, I get.
Splitting into four sub-projectiles, I don't get, not in the requested alloy.
The word 'split' suggests something like saw-cutting the bullet, which would be a LOT easier with something like 330 brass.

RE: Copper Projectile - Raw Material

Hard to source . . . you're kidding right??? As far as performance benefit/ductility, perhaps this is the actual property that is being sought that other alloys may not have. If I understand the OP's intent correctly, this is precisely why some other manufacturers use copper in a fragmenting/segmenting type of projectile. Fouling is not a primary concern in defensive and high lethality rounds, and even at that, can be mitigated through several means.

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.

RE: Copper Projectile - Raw Material

I suspect that electrical grade copper might work well in this application.

I am concerned that a solid 'pure copper' bullet would excessively deform/distort when fired thru a steel-rifled barrel under normal chamber pressures. Bullet distortion will lead to an unbalanced spin and de-stabilize the projectile. Distortion may be less of an issue, IF: this bullet will be fired thru a 'smooth-bore gun barrel', or if an obturator band is employed to spin-it-up while avoid raw bullet sliding-friction contact with barrel-rifling

Perhaps a hybrid bullet could be made using a bronze jacket swaged/brazed over a pure-solid copper core.... or a pure-sintered copper core. OR sinter/flame-spray a bronze alloy to the exterior of a pure copper bullet.... including the base.

I think Cu-Be alloy was used as a heat shield material in early ballistic missile tests... until other materials evolved into much lighter heat-shields for warheads.

Regards, Wil Taylor

o Trust - But Verify!
o We believe to be true what we prefer to be true. [Unknown]
o For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible. [variation,Stuart Chase]
o Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant. ["Orion", Homebuiltairplanes.com forum]

RE: Copper Projectile - Raw Material

Quote (dirtjumpordie)

Solid copper projectiles have a lower cross-sectional density, so a bullet for a given caliber will be longer than if it were lead-core and equal in mass. This allows a shape that has more gradual curves and better ballistic coefficient without sacrificing velocity. It also allows for a projectile that deforms to a larger cross-sectional area when it impacts the target. Again, all without sacrificing velocity.

All of this being true without requiring the rifle be specifically chambered for this longer bullet? Unless there is sufficient room in the jacket to simply seat the bullet further without running out of room for the charge? Just a point of curiosity, I don't have anything to add.

RE: Copper Projectile - Raw Material

I'm tempted to think that is coincidence, as I've never heard one used in place of the other. One major distinction is that the obturator band is what spins up the projectile without the sliding friction of full surface contact of the projectile in the barrel. The obturator band is often referred to as the "rotating band" in military specifications.

RE: Copper Projectile - Raw Material

Changes in projectile length are usually accommodated by changes in the finished press depth of the projectile into the cartridge case.

The case dimensions are important, as is the finished assembly overall length, so that the ammunition will feed properly. How deep the projectile is pressed into the case matters very little, as powders are power dense enough these days that the cartridges are never full.

o Trust - But Verify!
o We believe to be true what we prefer to be true. [Unknown]
o For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible. [variation,Stuart Chase]
o Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant. ["Orion", Homebuiltairplanes.com forum]

RE: Copper Projectile - Raw Material

BiPolarMoment, no, this was from an article about Franklin Armory and their new Reformation Rifle, having straight rifling and shooting "footballs". A copperclad round here would be very inaccurate I think.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

RE: Copper Projectile - Raw Material

My company web-browser won't let me get anywhere near the Your embedded link... acted like it was 'radioactive'.

Please extract/post a photo or info to the ENGINEERING.com 'attachment' link.

Regards, Wil Taylor

o Trust - But Verify!
o We believe to be true what we prefer to be true. [Unknown]
o For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible. [variation,Stuart Chase]
o Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant. ["Orion", Homebuiltairplanes.com forum]

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