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If you listen to podcasts, you most likely know how valuable they can be within you industry, whether you want to learn something new, have a laugh, or if you’re looking for some guidance and advice.

Based on current trends as well as the growing market, podcast ad revenue is predicted to grow 42% this year, bringing it to an estimated year-end total of $679 million, according to Ad Age. And, if we see this movement continue, Ad Age also predicts revenue from podcast-based advertising to surpass $1 billion by 2021.

Although these are significant numbers, how many people are making a comfortable living hosting a podcast?

Jordan Paris is a college-age student who built a podcast called Growth Mindset University. He’s interviewed the names of some of the most famous entrepreneurs, teaches his own podcasting courses and runs a marketing agency.

I had the chance to chat with Paris to find out how he created success in such a short span of time, his thoughts on podcast ad-revenue, his feelings about education, lessons learned, and his advice for upcoming Generation Z.

Young college student Jordan Paris is making waves in the entrepreneurship community.

Jordan Paris

On Work

Robyn Shulman: Can you tell me about yourself and your work?

Jordan Paris: I am from Pennsylvania, but I currently live in Fort Myers, Florida. I host a podcast called Growth Mindset University, which is all about learning the lessons we should have learned in school—but didn't.

Shulman: Tell me about your rankings in the podcast world.

Paris: The podcast was ranked #6 in Apple's Self-Improvement category in the United States, and #15 in Apple's ultra-competitive Education category. It also ranked highly in 40+ other countries worldwide. I also run a marketing and production agency for serious potential podcasters.

Shulman: Can you tell me how you got here today. You said you had a challenging high school experience. What moved you to change your outlook on life and build businesses at such a young age?

Paris: I decided I was sick of wallowing in mediocrity.

On Business

Shulman: Please tell me a little bit about each of the businesses you talk about on your website.

Paris: These businesses include the following:

Your Marketing and Production Agency for Serious Podcasters

Your podcast, Growth Mind University

Personal trainer

Shulman: On podcasting, it seems that ad revenue is the ultimate goal for most podcasters. It sure is the most obvious way to earn money as a podcaster, but is it the best way?

Paris: I've crunched the numbers, and it is not the best way.

Shulman: That’s interesting. Can you elaborate on that statement?

Paris: Instead, there is a way to build a business around a podcast, and that's one of the things I help people do. The podcast can be an integral part of the customer acquisition process, as I outline in my new book, The Podcast Playbook. The marketing and production agency for serious podcasters is the business I built around my podcast.

Shulman: Why is ad revenue the least efficient way to earn money as a podcaster? What numbers did you crunch?

Paris: Firstly, unless you have a few New York Times bestselling books under your belt and a built-in audience like Tim Ferris, it will be a long, arduous, and difficult path to ad revenue.

Months, probably years will go by without a single dime deposited into your pocket from the hard work you put into your podcast.

Shulman: Can you give me a monetary example?

Paris: Consider that the average ad slot goes for $15-$40 per thousand downloads. For this example, let's say you charge $30. Even if you have 15,000 downloads per episode (a lot, by the way), you will only make $23,400 per year if you are putting out one episode per week.

Shulman: Not the best strategy, correct?

Paris: This strategy would be tragic if this were your main revenue stream. With two episodes per week, your yearly income jumps to $46,800. Sure, this money will make you a living, but will it enable you to design the life of your dreams? What happens if your sponsors don't re-up after your contract ends because they didn't get enough leads directly from your podcast?

Shulman: You’re also a personal trainer. Can you tell us more about that part of your life?

Paris: Being a personal trainer, by the way, was the first step I took toward working for myself. I knew I never wanted to work for someone as an employee, so, at 19 years of age, I got my certification in personal training from the National Academy of Sports Medicine, and started training clients in the comfort of their own homes. Now, I only keep my first two clients, who I've had for nearly three years, because they are my friends at this point, and I still enjoy it.

More On Growth Mindset University Podcast

James Altucher and Jordan Paris during his show.

Jordan Paris

Shulman: Let's talk more about your podcast. How and why did you get started? What do you usually discuss with your guests?

Paris: Growth Mindset Universityis all about learning the lessons we should have learned in school, but didn't—so we can succeed in the progressive new age of business and life we find ourselves in today.

Shulman: Why did you launch the show?

Paris: I have no clue why I started the podcast. People ask me this all the time, and the plain and simple truth is that I decided to do it one fine April 2018 afternoon. It wasn't much good for the first several months, but I began taking it more seriously, growing as I was going.

Shulman: How many podcast episodes have you shared to date?

Paris: 150.

Shulman: How about some of your different guests?

Paris: The show features in-depth interviews with James Altucher, Mark Manson, Dan Millman, and other luminaries.

Shulman: What was your biggest challenge with the podcast, and how did you overcome it?

Paris: I crawled all the way to nine downloads the entire first week of June 2018, a month and a half after the podcast launched. You can only do a few things after that: Ignore the numbers, keep your head up, find joy in the process, and learn how to get better.

Shulman: Putting yourself in front of the world can be intimidating, and many people are afraid to share their thoughts and visions with the entire globe. How did you overcome any challenges regarding putting yourself out there?

Paris: By putting yourself out there on a large enough stage, you will inevitably have to deal with negative and disrespectful comments and messages. I used to be terrible at handling these kinds of things. I would let someone ruin my entire day. Now, after having dealt with it almost every day for the past year, I've developed a thicker skin. I'm no longer fazed by it.

Shulman: You are standing out from the expected norms of society. How do you deal with this type of outside pressure?

Paris: People who try to divert from the expectations of society are discouraged from breaking the mold in the form of doubters because, "If I can't have it, neither can you." I don't acknowledge people trying to bring me down, and instead stay focused on my mission. As The Beatles say, "Let it Be."

Shulman: Many of your episodes focus on education and entrepreneurship. These topics are unique coming from someone your age. What prompted you to focus on these two areas?

Paris: The current education system prepares us to be good, obedient workers. It also prepares us to get a job for 40+ years while saving much of life's pleasures for retirement when you may be too old to enjoy them, retire, and then pass away a few years later.

Shulman: This is interesting feedback coming from your generation Can you elaborate?

Paris: This path does not appeal to many of my peers and me. People are taking the path of entrepreneurship more than ever, as the barriers to entry are lower than they once were because we now have the Internet. I wanted to create a curriculum of learning outcomes relevant to people who want to choose the latter path, and I wanted to do it in a way that doesn't saddle young people with tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loan debt.

Shulman: You also talk about something called “Design a Life." What does this phrase mean to the average 20-year-old? Do you feel that your peers get it?

Paris: "Don't make a living, design a life" has been in my Instagram bio for over three years, not because it sounds good, but because it actually works.

Shulman: What does this mean for the average person?

Paris: I've designed my life around the criteria of helping people, having fun, and making money. The goal is to have my daily activities align with these criteria. I don't think most people understand designing a life because we are taught to think a certain way, behave a certain way, and to take a standard career path.

Designing a life is all about thinking for yourself and making your own decisions regardless of what society or your parents say you should do.

Shulman: You've interviewed some big names in the world. Can you share a top ten list?

Paris: Sure, here are my top ten.

James Altucher

Grant Cardone

Mark Manson

Dan Millman

Dan Lok

Rachel Starr

Naveen Jain

Jordan Harbinger

Kevin Rudolf

And, you—Robyn Shulman!

Shulman: How did you go about getting the attention and time of some of the most famous people for your show?

Paris: I accomplished this task in three ways:

Dig the well before you're thirsty; establish and build rapport before you go in with an ask.

Treat everyone like they can get you a cover story on Forbes Magazine. Don't be so shortsighted when forming relationships. See the bigger picture. Zoom out a bit. You never know what someone can do for you three weeks, three months, three years, even 20 years from now. Now, the goal of treating everyone with the utmost respect is not necessarily the metaphorical cover story on Forbes Magazine. That would be transactional, but if it happens, it's a bonus. The goal is to form deep, meaningful relationships in which each of us gives freely to one another. This is a winning strategy, and it's how I was introduced to James Altucher, Dan Lok, Rachel Starr, Naveen Jain, and so many more. Dig the well before you're thirsty with everyone, not just those you think can do something for you right now. With this strategy, the opportunity will be in abundance. Results won't happen overnight, but these actions compound over time and result in an explosion of positive change.

Become a student of human behavior and communication: Human behavior and communication is my favorite thing to learn about, and it has served me exceptionally well. The copy in my emails, and the way I communicate with people in person is intentional. A few of my favorite people to learn from in human behavior and communication include Chase Hughes, Vanessa Van Edwards, Mark Bowden, and Robert Greene.

Shulman: If you had to choose three podcast episodes that are a must-listen for your audience, which would they be and why?

Paris: These podcasts would be my top three to share:

James Altucher: Formal Education Is a Huge Scam - This one was in front of a live audience at Stand Up NY in NYC. James was a hero of mine for many years before this, and his self-publishing guide is the only reason I am an author. I recommend this episode because we talk about why the education system is broken, something I think all parents and high school students need to hear before shouldering the immense stress of student loans.

Mark Manson: Mark is arguably the most talented writer of our time, and his humility and kindness blew me away. We discussed his latest book, which is essentially an investigation into why, even though everything in the world is getting better, we are more depressed than at any other time in human history. It's a timely book and episode.

Dan Millman Is the Peaceful Warrior: Dan is also in the conversation for the best writer alive today. His first book, Way of the Peaceful Warrior, changed the lives of millions in the generations before me, yet it seems many of my peers in my generation have not read or heard of the book. So, I was eager to introduce my listeners, who tend to be in their 20s and 30s, to Dan and the Way of the Peaceful Warrior. I could never do his teachings justice with my words, but they may change your life for the better if you let them. Listen to this episode at the link above.

Shulman: What are two of the most critical lessons you've learned from the entrepreneurs you've interviewed?

Paris: These people we view as untouchable titans of business and life, well, they are all humans just like you and me. They all have insecurities and problems like the rest of us.

Shulman: You share your podcast episodes on LinkedIn, and the response has been tremendous. Why LinkedIn? How and why did they become one of your most significant platforms?

Paris: Building an audience on LinkedIn has been incredibly easy in 2018 and 2019. I do believe this will last through 2020, but beyond that, who knows.

The engagement rates on LinkedIn are low when compared to Instagram, but that doesn't stop the platform from being an incredibly powerful tool. The reason it is so easy to grow on LinkedIn is that the discoverability on this platform is far higher than other platforms.

Shulman: Can you provide me with an example of the growth you’ve noticed there and how it might work?

Paris: Sure, for example, when you, Robyn Shulman, comment on my post, I get a notification stating, "Robyn Shulman commented on this." Then, my post pops up in the feeds of those who follow Robyn Shulman. I am not sure I remember where I got this from or how accurate it is, but I've heard that "_____ commented on this" comprises 40% of your LinkedIn feed. So, with each new comment on your post, you have the opportunity to attract new followers. One commenter works wonders, and that's all I had in the beginning.

Imagine having hundreds of commenters every day. Imagine the compounding effect this will have on your following growth.

Since November of 2018, when I got serious about posting as well as commenting on LinkedIn, I have consistently gained at least 50 new followers every single day, sometimes far more. This has been going on for nearly one year straight.

Self-Reflection, Advice & The Future

Shulman: You've written a book, Growth Mindset University, offer classes, run your podcast, train others, and attend college. How do you balance all of these areas in your life?

Paris: My calendar is like my mom; when the calendar tells me that I need to do something, I do it. What gets scheduled gets done, as I learned from interviewing Nir Eyal. I also prioritize. Often, people say, "I don't have time to go to the gym." You do, you don't prioritize it.

I could have easily said, "I don't have time to start a business," and nobody would have given me flak for that. Instead, I prioritized paving my path instead of doing busy work.

So, getting good grades took a backseat several years ago, and it's the best decision I ever made because grades are an illusion anyway.

Shulman: When you graduate, do you see yourself doing anything different? Why or why not?

Paris: I see myself continuing paving this path of mine, but who knows how my life will change in the next several months. At this time last year, I could never have imagined doing all of the things I am doing today. I have an aim because aimlessness is a vice, but I am certainly open to the world of possibilities out there.

Shulman: We are in one of the most transformative times in history. If you could advise Gen Z—especially those who are on the cusp of college-age, what are the top three things you would tell them?

Paris: Think for yourself. Do not feel pressured to go to college and take out tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans that will never be forgiven. Just because society, parents, friends, or teachers say you need a piece of paper to be successful it doesn’t mean it’s the right path for everyone.

We all can pave our paths, and we don't need to go to college to be successful unless you want to be a doctor, nurse, lawyer, or engineer. A college degree and a corporate job is no longer the only way. Don't let anyone tell you one way is the only way. The choice is ours.

Shulman: If you could go back in time before you started college, what would you have done differently—if anything?

Paris: If I could go back in time, I would take a gap year after high school. During that gap year, I would reach out to role models who have achieved what I want to achieve and ask to be their apprentice. Let's see if I can make things happen here. If I can't make things happen or I don't like it, then perhaps I’d think about going to college the following year.

Now, instead of being an 18-year-old with no money, I'll be a 19-year-old with no money. What's the difference? What do kids have to lose? What does anyone have to be ashamed of about this other than the parents having to say, "No, Jimmy is not in college?”

Shulman: Tell me what's coming out in 2020. What are some of your big plans?

With over 500,000 readers in education, I am honored to be namedLinkedIn's #1 Top Voice in Education for 2018. I am also the founder of EdNews Daily, an online education

…

With over 500,000 readers in education, I am honored to be namedLinkedIn's #1 Top Voice in Education for 2018. I am also the founder of EdNews Daily, an online education resource that provides education consulting opportunities, tips, articles, teacher support, and critical information surrounding the education ecosystem.

EdNews Daily is a hub of information for parents, students, teachers, universities, education startups and school administrators. I am a certified K-9, ESL and Writing teacher. I've taught almost all grade levels from ECE to college-age students.

Prior to writing, my career began in a 4th-grade classroom and transitioned into higher education. I launched the first graduate advising program in the history of National Louis University, working with over 2,500 educators and 100 professors.

As an education journalist, you can find my work featured in various publications across the globe. Today, I continue to work with students, teachers, leading education entrepreneurs, influencers, and startups.