** It's only a matter of time before the citizens realize who the true enemy is. They'll eventually grow tired of watching their brothers and sisters die at the hands of terrorists and realize the USA is fighting against those bringing their country down. Once (and I understand that's a big "if") the public stands behind the US the edge will clearly be in our favor **

Two Car Bombs Explode, Killing 14 in Iraq

KHAN BANI SAAD, Iraq - Suicide attackers detonated two vehicles Saturday at police stations in towns northeast of Baghdad, and at least 14 people were killed, U.S. and Iraqi officials said.

In Baghdad, a cargo plane operated by the Belgium-based DHL landed Saturday at Baghdad International Airport with its wing ablaze. The U.S. military said it was unclear if it had been struck by ground fire but a military source, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the plane was struck by a SAM-7 surface-to-air missile.

The attacks on the police stations in Khan Bani Saad and nearby Baqouba  which occurred within a half hour  came after U.S. intelligence reports warning of an upsurge in attacks near the end of the Islamic holy month of Ramadan, which comes to a close in a few days.

In Khan Bani Saad, a market town on the northeastern outskirts of Baghdad, 10 people were killed, including six policemen, three civilians and the vehicle's driver, according to Capt. Ryan McCormick of the 4th Infantry Division. Iraqi police said one of the dead was a 5-year-old girl. Ten people were wounded, McCormick said.

McCormick said a police guard fired on the approaching vehicle but could not stop the blast. He said there were no U.S. or other coalition casualties.

11/21: Pvt. Scott M. Tyrrell, 21, of Sterling, Ill., died on Nov. 20 at Brooke Army Medical Center, in San Antonio, Texas, of wounds received on Nov. 14 in Tikrit, Iraq. Tyrrell was at an ammunition point when it caught on fire.

11/21: A Hungarian man has been shot dead by US troops west of Baghdad, the Hungarian foreign ministry has said.

11/20: One 4th Infantry Division soldier was killed during a combat patrol when the soldiers vehicle struck an improvised explosive device near Al Ghalibiyah, 15 km west of Baqubah, at approximately 10 p.m. Nov. 20.

11/20: BAGHDAD, Iraq  A 82nd Airborne Division soldier was killed and two wounded, when their convoy was attacked with two improvised explosive devices east of Ar Ramadi at approximately 2:40 p.m. Nov. 20.

11/19: A U.S. soldier was killed north of Baghdad by a booby-trap on Thursday, the American military said on Friday. A spokesman said the soldier was from the 4th Infantry Division.

And who knows how many wounded.

One thing seems clear, however. The army is succeeding quite well at sweeping casualties under the rug.

If attacks have deminished 70% this isn't exactly showing up in coalition deaths. If this figure is truthful it would be very scary. It would suggest that attacks are becoming much more leathal. I doubt it's much more than wishful thinking.

Tsk, Tsk, did you even read the article? I was clearly referring to yesterdays events as related to the Iraqi insurgents. The 2 deaths you point out had nothing to do coming from the insurgents.

One thing seems clear, however. The army is succeeding quite well at sweeping casualties under the rug.

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Can you point to me JUST ONE casualty that is not recorded and reported by the military?

If attacks have deminished 70% this isn't exactly showing up in coalition deaths. If this figure is truthful it would be very scary. It would suggest that attacks are becoming much more leathal. I doubt it's much more than wishful thinking.

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It's not? Where do you get your data from? In the 10 days since the offensive started there have been 10 reported coalition fatalities attributed to the insurgents, compared to 24 the week prior to the operation. Seems to me that the attacks are down AND they are LESS lethal.

Originally posted by SLClemens Not if you include the 17 killed in a duel helicopter crash. Why does the Pentagon not seem keen to report more details of it, I wonder, and instead just sweep it under the rug?

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So they report the details of the more than 300 deaths, but they want to sweep just this one under the rug? Doesn't make sense. They report facts, not suspicions/rumors/innuendo.

Like I said, I'm reporting the facts, and they show both attacks and fatalities of he coalition severely decreasing.

Originally posted by jimnyc So they report the details of the more than 300 deaths, but they want to sweep just this one under the rug? Doesn't make sense. They report facts, not suspicions/rumors/innuendo.

Like I said, I'm reporting the facts, and they show both attacks and fatalities of he coalition severely decreasing.

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So why, I wonder, has there been so little interest in these 17 deaths? Perhaps because it would spin your 'facts' in the wrong direction?

Originally posted by SLClemens Not if you include the 17 killed in a duel helicopter crash. Why does the Pentagon not seem keen to report more details of it, I wonder, and instead just sweep it under the rug?

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It would skew the rate of casualties back up to pre-iron hammer totals (arguably unfairly from the pentagons point of view). The resistance is still active, still attacking whatever it percieves to be collaboration with the occupation. We'll just have to wait and see what develops.

Originally posted by SLClemens So why, I wonder, has there been so little interest in these 17 deaths? Perhaps because it would spin your 'facts' in the wrong direction?

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It's been reported. It's been recorded. What more do you want? How is the reporting been any different than those killed by insurgents? A soldier was killed last week by a roadside bomb, has it received any more or less attention? Can you tell me this specific soldiers name? No, you can't, not unless you look it up on the military page. Death is unfortunate, but they deal with it and move on.

No spinning done here by me! Unless you can come back with something even remotely substantial, the fact remains that attacks and fatalities have decreased by large numbers.

Originally posted by dijetlo It would skew the rate of casualties back up to pre-iron hammer totals (arguably unfairly from the pentagons point of view). The resistance is still active, still attacking whatever it percieves to be collaboration with the occupation. We'll just have to wait and see what develops.

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And if you include the deaths of the civilians in Iraq and Turkey it would outnumber the casualties pre-iron hammer. (arguably fair from a liberal point of view).

Coaltion deaths, as of right now, are down since the inception of the new operation. Factually speaking, this cannot be debated. It may change, but the future doesn't change current facts.

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