Beimel, Harris on Caring About Losing

Last weekend, the Post ran an A1 story about how fans have stuck with, and coped with, a season of dismal baseball in the District. Midway through that story, a few players were quoted, too -- opinions from the epicenter of the mess. Two of the quotes caused some fan backlash. Willie Harris said, "I'm not going to lose sleep because I lost a ballgame. I lose sleep when my mother's sick." And relief pitcher Joe Beimel said, referring to the fans, "I've been kind of shocked no one gives you a hard time around here. Maybe they just don't care enough."

The players, of course, said what they said. But there is a difference, sometimes, between quotes and intentions. As a beat writer, I had a sense of the intended meanings here from the second I read the quotes. I am around these players every day. Such day-to-day exposure doesn't always let you know the capital T truth about players, but it sure does bring you close. As a beat writer, you have a good sense of which players care about the profession and which ones only do it because they have to. Beimel and Harris both care. In recent days, I've talked to both of them about what they said; Beimel, in fact, sought me out to elaborate on his comments. (He'd received an angry fan letter, which alerted him to the original article.)

Here's what Beimel said in our discussion...

"The [original] question was, 'With us losing so much, is it harder for us to go out in public? Do people give you a hard time and bother you while you're eating or something like that?' Well, no. First of all, nobody is going to know who I am really. I mean, I'm a middle reliever. People aren't really gonna bother me. I said, I don't think people care enough to bother me when I'm out to eat or something like that. And somehow that came off like me saying the fans don't care. And that wasn't the case at all.

"I mean, there are cities where you go to -- that's their life. Baseball and rooting for their team, that's their life. But you know, people have more important things to worry about than coming up and harassing me when I'm out to eat. By no means does that mean that people here don't care about their team or are bad fans. I mean, we have the worst record in baseball and fans still come out here every single night. Last night there was a big crowd here, and for me that was actually surprising because I've played in Pittsburgh where, if you're not doing well, nobody comes. You can hear crickets in the stands."

"Yeah. Well that's alright," Beimel said with a laugh. "I'm one of them anyway."

Now Harris. He didn't want to explain himself quite as expansively as Beimel did, but perhaps here I can share my own experience. Last year, my first on the beat, I often came up to Harris after games (usually losses) with questions about his ability to endure the beatings. My questions were premised on the idea that each loss was its own trauma -- something that triggers a reaction -- and Harris would often look at me like I was crazy. "Hell man, this ain't hard," he'd say. At first, I was always caught by surprise. You'd never hear such a response in football, after all, where every game is an event, and where every outcome dictates the mood for days.

But baseball is different. Each loss is gnawing, but it is not debilitating. Baseball is repetition, and repetition numbs the impact of each game. Same as Harris doesn't lose sleep over the losses, he doesn't go out to celebrate the wins. "We come in here after we've lost, we talk about it," Harris said. "I'll maybe talk to Zim: 'Why did we lose?' But that's it, though. I walk out of here (the clubhouse) and it's over."

Anyway, I relay all this only because the players involved wanted a forum to explain themselves, and because this blog is a place where the context comes at no cost. Plus, now you'll know the reason why Beimel is getting booed in Pittsburgh.

Listen to natsfan1a - she is very wise! She is not chopped liver. However - I've never understood this, since my mother made the best chopped liver in the world, incomparable, preferrable to filet mignon, and eating all that was left was a constant sin for which I atoned yearly on Yom Kippur.

Chico, I was never mad at Willie, I think he has EXACTLY the right priorities, and I hope you tell him so. If we kid about his mom, that's because we love him (I do, anyway) and REALLY hope he doesn't get traded. Any game I'm at, you will here me with the loudest WILLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE I can do--and that's pretty loud, trust me.

To Joe Beimal, I think he needs to grasp that every city is different. Just go out in 90+ heat, plus humidity, and view those men in suits and gals in heels. You do not see that in LA. The culture in DC is DC. Just because we don't say FU every other word, that doesn't mean we don't care. I LIke Joe too, I like any guy who goes out and does his job, and I put Joe in that category. I've said on this forum he should be a keeper, because LH relievers are NOT a dime a dozen.

Anyway, to both Willie and Joe, I want to say "Thank you" for paying ATTENTION to us fans, even if we don't always agree. Keep up the good work. GO NATS.

I enjoyed Chico's comparison to the doom and gloom after a football loss. Therein lies the beauty of baseball... had a bad game? No problem. We do it all again tomorrow. Shake it off and look forward, not behind.

In football, you have to re-live your failure for a week before you get to make amends.

As usual it is baseball, more than any other endeavor, that is the best metaphor for life.

Kidding aside, I think Beimel has it exactly right. What he didn't say, probably because he may not know it yet, is that only the Redskins inspire the kind of live and die passion here that he sees elsewhere. But that will change once the Nats add some more pieces to that young pitching staff.

Great post, Chico. And Beimel's point about Pittsburgh is well taken. For all the anguish over our attendance, does anyone look at some of the other cities? Pittsburgh had 11,000 the other night, in the middle of summer. People would have been advocating closing the doors at Nationals Park if we had a number like that.

The Nats are able to have an easier time because so much around here depends on how the Redskins are doing. Everything else comes in second. Baseball fans here care about the "#1 Nationals", but it is just not with the same passion as they care for the Redskins. Maybe if "we" start winning or make it to the playoffs then the Nats will give the Skins some competition.....

@lowcountry--so sorry! You are right, we assume people know "discussions" means "chats". Didn't meant to be snarky.

Now, back to Willie. The more I think about it, the madder I am at the people who trashed him for his remark about his mom. OF ALL PLAYERS!!! When he was given the chance, he played his heart out in the OF. They traded for Morgan, and I was upset because if anyone deserved a chance to play every day, it was Willie.

But, you gotta give to to Rizzo. Nyjer. Wow. So Willie went back to his "utility" role--and playing 3B which is not his forte--without complaint.

There is a saying in shoqbiz, "leave it at the door." Refers to all the personal sh-- we all have. When the show starts, you are game on.

Well, I think the converse is also true. Why SHOULD Willie lose sleep if he did his job????

There are people in this organization who need to lose sleep a h---uva lot more than Willie.

Let me get this straight: there are cities where middle relievers get harrassed in restaurants when the team loses??

And I was going to suggest the "angry fan letter" writer get a life ...

Was it Ron Luciano (in "The Umpire Strikes Back") who said he used to wait until Earl Weaver got to just the right shade of red, and then tell him, "But Earl--IT'S JUST A GAME." just to watch Weaver go completely nuts.

SF Gate:
Holliday to Cards, redux: For the second time, rumors are swirling about the Cardinals' interest in the A's Matt Holliday, below. One NL source said Wednesday that St. Louis might be edging closer to Oakland's asking price, minor-league third baseman Brett Wallace, because the Cardinals need a left fielder and their other option essentially would be Washington's Josh Willingham.
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Outsider - I recall Gwynn saying that Strasburg will need to learn how to get hitters with pitches that are in the strike zone. Most of his strike-outs came from college hitters (down in the count) chasing pitches outside the strike zone. Gwynn suggested that he had all the tools but would have a bit of learning to do before he became successful against big league hitters.
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No less an authority than Tony Gwynn, he knows a thing or two about what a good pitcher looks like, says SS can be a #2 or #3 for almost any MLB team RIGHT NOW. He went on to say on the Nats he'd be #1. Others who've been around for a long time say SS is the best pitcher in the draft since Tom Seaver.

I remember another story (can you tell I'm over 50?) about a reporter being worried going into a postgame interview with famously hyper-competitive Bob Gibson, after Gibson had just given up a walk-off HR to Billie Williams.

Not exactly. This is a blog post clarifying, at the player's request, a story some moron misinterpreted.
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So, this is a Washington Post story debunking a sloppily reported story in...the Washington Post? Wow, that must be one complicated place to work...

Since this is a family-friendly venue, with civilized sensibilities, we've developed euphemisms.

[RF] is Robert Fick (who used to play here). Used in place of the noun, as in, "Where the [RF] was Nook Logan going??!! What the [RF] was he thinking??!!"

After Fick left, we needed a replacement. Fortunately, they signed Aaron Boone, who is known all around New England (by Mass. law, I think) as "Aaron (****ing) Boone"
Hence [AB] -- used as a gerund, as in, "OMG what a long-winded, over-written, pompous [AB] post to explain one simple point."

NatsLady, I'd have to dig up the links but at one point it was suggested that [RF] be used in place of expletives in Nats Journal comments. This was in tribute to Mr. Robert Fick's frequently colorful turns of phrase. After Fick left the team, and Aaron Boone joined it, it was suggested that [AB] be substituted for [RF]. This was in honor of the middle name awarded to Boone by Sox fans in the 2003 ALCS (as was done with Bucky F. Dent before him).

I was in my car at lunch time, and I thought I'd give the new sports radio station a try given that 980 is so brutal on baseball. Mike Wise is on there interviewing Chris Cooley (a Redskin of course in the off -season talking about fishing no less) and Wise says, "we're the official station of the Boston Red Sox since we don't have a professional baseball team in DC."

Somebody should tell the carpetbagger, Mr. Wise, to take his surf board and pineapple back to Hawaii. That's a ridiculous statement for somebody to make in DC on sports radio station even in jest. I don't mind a little team bashing when they're bad, but "the official station of the Red Sox"? And they wonder why their ratings are so low.

When programmers write example code, they often have problems naming the variables. in the olden days, the old standbys were i and j. Now a days, the standard variable names are foo and bar. For foobar, which comes from FUBAR, but honestly, I don't think most programmers really know where foo and bar comes from.

Somebody was once compiling an NJ glossary. Can't remember who it was, though. Welcome Wagon Park is an instant classic! Can't wait 'til they start carrying the "interim fan" tees at the team store. Yay!

I did not know that about the foobar variable names, swang30, and I once worked with a bunch of programmers. Thanks.

Indeed, Swang. If you're old enough to remember "Gasoline Alley," the comic strip, before it was a legacy item, "foo" used to show up there from time to time, along with other nonsense words (I wasted much time, pre-google, trying to look up "notary sojak.")

FUBAR may itself be a coinage punning on the German "furchtbar"--"terrible"--as in, "Diese furchbar Baseballmannschaft stimmt nicht."

Repetition: Doing the best you can with what you can control starting with your attitude. Even in the worst situation, where everything is completely out of one's control you can still control your attitude. Willie, that is a fact that was observed by one Dr. Viktor Frankl in the Concentration Camps.

Repetition: If the pitchers continue to control what they can by limiting or abolishing walks I believe this team can win more than they're fair share of games.

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Jim Riggleman has called a brief meeting after each game he's managed here in Washington. He has pointed out his players' hard work, citing the infield and outfield drills done before batting practice and how it's paying off.

I asked Joe Beimel if he'd ever experienced a manager calling meetings like that and he told me Joe Torre used to do it in Los Angeles when the Dodgers were struggling.

I asked Jim if he called meetings when he was the manager in Chicago and he said he didn't have to.

Unfortunately the Nats are beyond the "We'll get em next time" mentality or they should be. You can have that mentality when you are .500 and competing for the playoffs and NEED to shake it off and think about the next game. The Nats are 40 games under .500!!! Thanks to this, there is no next time. It's irrelevant. There was never a TOMORROW since May. They should all go home and cry themselves to sleep for being well compensated complete wastes of life. They bring joy to nobody. Why do we pay you?

"Dibble was talking about how JD Martin doesn't belong at this level. Oh yeah, you were probably busy posting one of several hundred meaningless diatribes.

Posted by: WashOut | July 23, 2009"

I'm originally from Syracuse suckuh. So, yeah I've seen him pitch. I disagree with Dibble, but then he probably would have said the same about a pitcher like Mike Cuellar. No fastball there, yet he was the Orioles ace even over McNally and Palmer ...

When Martin does well, and he will, you are going to look like a silly suckuh he has to hide behind a really negative handle in order to spew trash talk. I sincerely doubt that you would do so if we were face to face ... ~smiles~

-They've broken up the gang a bit but I've enjoyed watching the young pitchers egging each other on in their pitching and hitting efforts.
-Okay, this is an exhibition game but Josh Willingham won my heart in the preseason match with the O's after he made a great diving catch in foul territory, then followed up with a slice of salami.

Does anyone realize it has gotten to the point -- even after our winning "streak" -- that we have to go better than .500 from here on out to finish with under 100 wins. 34-34 to close would leave us squarely on 100 losses. Of course, as Bos has pointed out, we'd literally have to win only 14 of the final 68 games in order to tie the Mets for best worst team of all time.

Dibble:
Looks like he couldn't handle it after his arm surgery ... sour grape?

Temper tantrums

During his career Dibble often was known for his temper. After one game, he threw a baseball into the outfield seats at Cincinnati and struck a lady. He was also involved in a brawl in 1991 with Astros shortstop Eric Yelding. That same season he was caught attempting to throw a baseball into the back of Cubs outfielder Doug Dascenzo as he ran down the first base line. Finally, Dibble was involved in a locker room brawl with Reds manager Lou Pinella after a game. In a turn back the clock game against the Mets at Shea Stadium in 1992, Dibble after giving up a homer to Bobby Bonilla took himself out of the game but not before ripping the old timers jersey off before leaving the field.

Later career

Dibble required surgery to his pitching arm in 1994, and missed the entire season as a result. Dibble signed with the Milwaukee Brewers and also played with the Chicago White Sox. He signed with the Chicago Cubs at the end of the 1995 season, but didn't appear in a game. He signed with the Florida Marlins for the 1996 season, but missed the entire year due to injury[1], and retired soon after.

@periculum: Even with my earlier post to outsider, Mock, Martin & maybe Estrada are going to become either trade add-ons over the next few days, or will settle into MR/4-A staff slots.
The current starting staff is very young and holds promise, but only Lannan & Olsen have proven themselves to date - Stammen, JZimm, & Martis are on the edge, and need another year, imo.

What Dribble did as a player has absolutely nothing to do with the current state of affairs. He's now a face on MASN, an observer & reactionary voice for what he sees. Nothing more, nothing less.
As the "color man" in the booth, his job is to stimulate conversation & contriversey[sp?] regarding the Nationals. On that regard, he gets high marks; In terms of overall baseball insight & intelligence, meh.

I haven't posted here in a very long time, but periculum's post about RZim to STL reminded me that, while in California about a month ago (went to an A's-G's game), I drove from Sacramento to SF listening to a sports talk radio show dominated by discussions of just who SF would have to give up to get RZim.

With respect, I don't think ZNN is "on the edge". Although I've heard debate in this space, I've read numerous reports that rate him a solid #2 and borderline #1. His stuff is that good. With a 4.63 ERA as a 23-year old rookie I think ZNN is a cut above Mock, Martis, Stammen, Martin, Balester, Chico, and Detwiler.

Hi, natsagain. We took in a game at SFO on Memorial Day (Sanchez started and won vs. the Braves). Beautiful park. Also, while they have a humongous team store there, it did not seem to be overrun with the merchandise of opposing fans - though I did not do an extensive survey of inventory. huh.