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The boat is a 2008 in Kevlar and it looks to be a very tenacious bond between the hull and seat. I'm aware of the hacksaw with the tape around the handle method, but hoping for an easier solution that won't damage the hull.

I realize it will need to be cut where it is "hung/bonded" from the underside of the deck/coaming. I'm mostly concerned with separating the underside of the seat from the hull.

You can separate the cockpit coaming from the deck, I would say start cutting. What the problem with the seat?

It is glued in with tough adhesive Posted by: LeeG on Feb-28-14 9:33 PM (EST)

Not everyone likes it. The stock gel seat/backband doesn't stay in place with the factory installed velcro.

In the high end carbon/Kevlar hull the seat creates a stress riser that results in external cracks in the gel coat .

The boats have fairly high aft decks with the seat located just a couple inches behind the seat back which inhibits some types of rolls and back quarter blade movements. It would make re entries easier with a lower aft deck.

The construction and hull design are excellent time tested designs but the cockpit, aft deck and hatch closures need a redesign.

700xseat Posted by: tkamd on Feb-28-14 12:04 PM (EST)

I feel your pain Jim, bought a 700x in 2010, loved the boat, hated the seat. Before hacking it out, as a last ditch effort, I removed the pad, velcroed in a Seals seat pad, and inflatable lumbar support. Then installed an IR back band. I can paddle that boat all day now. What about calling Steve at QCC, as far as I know, he is still answering the phone, he would probably have a good idea as to removing it. Tim

Second this approach Posted by: carldelo on Mar-02-14 2:46 PM (EST)

I have a Q400, which is a different animal, of course, but has the same crappy seating system. In the end, I just spray-glued some sleeping pad foam (that gray and green waffle stuff) to the bare seat pan and it's been great. It's worth a test before taking a chisel and saw to your boat.

Good point Posted by: LeeG on Mar-02-14 3:28 PM (EST)

The seat pan itself is good in my opinion but the permanence of the seat installation makes modifications difficult and the velcroed seat bottom/back is quirky. Velcro adhesive isn't strong enough. I had a QCC 400, nice paddling kayak.

Agreed Posted by: carldelo on Mar-02-14 3:49 PM (EST)

-- Last Updated: Mar-02-14 3:57 PM EST --

I found the bare pan very comfortable, even with the velcro in place. I lightly spray-glued the pad over the seat to test it. It felt great, couldn't get the pad off easily, didn't want to rip it up, so the velcro is still under there.

I left the pad long in front, so it drapes over the front edge of the seat itself, which seems to help with the numb-leg thing.

Oh, and I second adding a back band. I used a Snapdragon rigid band that is somewhat tall to cover the high rear coaming on the 400, its deck is really high.

Rear deck Posted by: LeeG on Mar-03-14 8:27 PM (EST)

It is a tad high for rescues but would be no problem if the back of the coaming was 2" further back. I had a Mariner Express with that tall of coaming but the cockpit was longer with room behind the backband that made for room to move. Another thing I'd change is the use of Fastek buckles for hatch closures. I'd rather use a length of 5mm line like old Neckys than Fastek buckles

Good idea Posted by: carldelo on Mar-04-14 11:43 PM (EST)

-- Last Updated: Mar-04-14 11:48 PM EST --

I agree that the standard QCC cockpit coaming would benefit from being 2" deeper behind the paddler, 3"-6" longer in front of the paddler, and a couple of inches wider. I cannot fathom why they don't offer a big-boy coaming option on their boats.

I haven't had an issue with the buckles, but I don't use my hatch much so it's neither here nor there to me. I actually have a Q400S with only the rear hatch for a clean front deck (but with a vented front bulkhead for flotation). I asked about deleting the rear hatch but they wouldn't do it. I saw a Q700 once with no hatches and it was really elegant, it made a big impression on me. But hey, I'm a day paddler at heart....

Sorry , I can't help Posted by: jackl on Feb-28-14 12:47 PM (EST)

but mine was lifting off the bottom, and I glued it back, I even pried it a little to make sure I was getting it all down.
I guess if I wanted to remove it, I would cut it off the underside of the coaming, and then try to pry it up. I know, I could have easily pried the whole front up, but I don't know about the rest. If yours is down solid I would not recommend that

I am lucky I guess. I can paddle all day long and still be comfortable with the seat. Probably because of the many miles I paddle.
I have a feeling you won't get in touch with Steve, but give it a try

Jack L

ASSuming the seat is a pain there ... Posted by: onnopaddle on Feb-28-14 2:13 PM (EST)

-- Last Updated: Feb-28-14 2:17 PM EST --

People either love or hate the QCC seat shape and are often replacing it with my Contour Seat. ...

The hate part is exasperated by the toe control systems which have to be mounted too low.

They are typically mounted too low because the pedals need to clear the deck ... So you have to sit there toes pointed trying to push while paddling then cranking your toes back to 'find' that tiny little banana pedal. ... Not only are these pedals too small / short, and un-ergonomically shaped, but the low mounting sets up the back of your legs to get pressure they don't need ...

Apologies for the opinions you never asked for ... These things seem like they were never even tested in a boat.

I suggest trying to move whatever foot pedals are in there back a click first to see how you feel and if that feels better / seat more comfortable ....

.... Then I would suggest to please consider my Onno Gas Pedal System.

The Gas Pedals are night and day better than the SeaLines, Sea Dawgs etc. by themselves. So if you were unhappy with what is in there, I humbly suggest to install these first as they tend to solve the Seat Edge 'problem'.

Onno Posted by: LeeG on Feb-28-14 9:46 PM (EST)

I think the adhesive is Plexus(?). Is it possible to use heat and pry without screwing up the hull?

The pisser with those Sealine rudders is that the toe control is awkward to touch and something as simple as an attachment from wire to rudder is kludged up with specialized fittings that can't secure the wire without press fittings, they're assembled with the idea the little steel wedge will hold it without press fittings but it can't. The other thing is the clevis pin is held with a split cotter pin which is great for puncturing hands.

If I may: Posted by: jackl on Mar-01-14 6:19 AM (EST)

As much as I hate the Smart Track System, and that stupid connection at the rudder, I have never seen that little wedge not hold the cable, and I have probably changed them out more times than most paddle shops.(pricked my finger with the cotter pin too and called it the same!)
Another thing the press fitting at the end of the cable at the knurled adjusting knob can be replaced with a tiny brass cable connector with a set screw that you can get in electrical supply houses. This allows you to buy cable by the foot rather then pay the high dollar for the special one made just for the
system.

Jack L

Have had guys tell me they just Posted by: onnopaddle on Mar-01-14 5:01 PM (EST)

-- Last Updated: Mar-01-14 5:02 PM EST --

"popped" the seat with a chisel but I'm sure the QCC guys are wincing hearing this one ... Thats such a point load if seat does not move before hull laminate.

If it's Plexus, fogetabout it ... You NOT moving it without delaming something. HDT on it is much higher than the hull resin.

QCC Seat Removal Posted by: trilobite02 on Mar-01-14 8:05 PM (EST)

First of all, Patrick, good to see your post. :)
Owned a QCC700 some time ago. Overall, it was quite a nice boat: well made, fast, and handled well in all conditions. I eventually sold it, however, largely due to issues with the seating setup that caused sciatica. Everything Patrick noted about the toe pedal setup is accurate. Coupled to that is the substantial width between the pedals themselves. This, along with the low thigh braces and narrow cockpit at the front, along with a short seat pan, forces you into a splay-legged position that puts undue pressure on the sciatic nerve.

I replaced the stock seat with Patrick's contour seat, and it made a huge difference. The factory seat is mounted with Plexus; I cold-chiseled it out. It definitely was not easy, and since my boat was carbon, removal of the Plexus caused some of the carbon to splinter, which had to be sanded smooth. Best advice would be to take your time, and chisel a small section at a time.

Another vote for Pat's gas pedals. Installed these in my Westside EFT. Much like a surfski pedal system, they have none of the complexity/deficits of the ToePilots. I'm sure Patrick could advise you on setup in the Q-Tip. ;) Having a footplate to span the distance from pedal to pedal allows you to keep your legs closer together, alleviating any potential stress on the sciatic nerve.

Great Posted by: LeeG on Mar-01-14 10:00 PM (EST)

So hack saw blade it is

Jack Posted by: LeeG on Mar-01-14 9:57 PM (EST)

We got 5 demo QCC at the shop and two of them slipped at the wedge, enough to require disassembly at the rudder then reconnecting with press fittings. It would make more sense to just make a loop then secure with press fittings then use screw and nylock nut to connect with the rudder.

I hate having cold hands then slicing them up on pokey cotter pins.

I agree completely Posted by: jackl on Mar-02-14 5:58 AM (EST)

Wenonah must have changed the supplier. That has not happened in the past.
I hope they have changed the supplier of all the stainless hardware on their boats, so they don't end up rusting, and the supplier of the rudder parts, so you don't end up with multi-colored ones after a year

Jack L

FYI Posted by: LeeG on Mar-01-14 9:51 PM (EST)

Anyone thinking of buying a QCC can get it without the seat installed

This is a simple problem Posted by: Dr_Disco on Mar-04-14 9:40 PM (EST)

Despite all the details above, all you have to do is remove the seat pad and back support, which is very easy. The seat pan is just fine. You can remove the velcro on the pan if you want but it is not necessary. If you want back support you can install after market supports using the holes already there on the sides. I did that but later removed it after I discovered that back support is not needed. YMMV.

seat pan fine Posted by: gjf12 on Mar-05-14 2:30 PM (EST)

I also find the seat pan with the velcro still attached just fine, very comfortable. I did replace the back band with one by IR. I find the foot position on the pedals fine, as well as the operation of the SmartTrack rudder as long as it is working normally. I don't think the Q700 handle well in wind without the rudder, and never paddle it without deploying the rudder.