Post by Fickle81 on Sept 24, 2008 20:29:42 GMT -5

There May Be Spoilers

I know I'm a little late to the party,but I thought it was long overdue that I'd make my thoughts about Nolan's sure to come third Batman film known. Eventhough mere news of the production of the movie is a LONG ways off,you can consider this the official thread for the third Batman film and may in fact be updated when any news bits are made avaliable. Lets start with the title of the film. I've heard various suggestions such as "Shadow of the Bat",and even titles that directly influence certain graphic novels such as "The Dark Knight Returns" and "Dark Victory"...but for some reason,I have yet to hear anybody suggest the most obvious choice for a title..."The Caped Crusader". Not only is this the most logical choice based on the title of the previous movie,The Dark Knight,but it also fits into the theme that I believe should be central to the next film. See below.

Now we get to the movie's theme...Batman Begin's theme was fear,specifically,conquering one's fears (in Batman's case,bats and his own rage) and using these fears in order to help shape a society (Gotham City) into something better than what it is (in this movie's case,a crime infested wasteland). The Dark Knight's theme was escalation,namely,the consequences of the criminal underworld taking Batman's influence,perverting it,and using it to make that same society revert back to its original ugly state,as well as the concept of things getting worse before they get better. Based on not only the ending of TDK but also some of the events that happened in the film as well as the natural progression of themes,I personally believe that the best theme to go with for the third Batman film is redemption.

Batman's public image has been tainted by the end of The Dark Knight,so obviously restoring said public image would be a way to use this theme,but it goes much deeper than that. The theme of redemption could even be used in the case of Bruce Wayne's vunerable romantic state,as he could try to help a particular hypothetical female villian (see the villians portion of this article in the paragraph AFTER the 2 below paragraphs) turn over a new leaf and redeem herself from her criminal life. Hell,it even works in a hypothetical sense if Two Face were to come back and be the villian for the third movie (an idea that has already been debunked). You'll see this redemption motif repeat itself quite a bit for the rest of the article...I really don't see any other thematic direction Nolan would be able to take,but he's surprised me before.

Next is the film's color scheme. Batman Begins had a dominatly brown color scheme to paint Gotham City as the crime infested wasteland shithole that it was. The Dark Knight's color scheme was mostly blue,which was done to create a contrast...at first it is used to create a vibe of calm relaxation in showing that Batman has really made a difference and gotten the city out of the slump it was in in Batman Begins...but then when the shit starts to go down,the blue turns out to be a corrupted false sense of security and is then used as a means of shaping the dark and bleak atmosphere that will carry over the remander of the film. Whats the next logical step from this?

Green...now I know some of you are having unpleasent flashbacks of Batman Forever,but let me explain how this could work. For one thing,there are a few hints of the use of green in TDK (namely the interrogation scene),so one could readily argue that having green be the dominate color scheme in the third Batman film would be a great way to compliment those hints of green in TDK,thus creating a smooth transition. Another thing is that it should be a shade of green (meaning dark green) rather than a tint or tone,which would help keep the bleak look in tact while having a slightly different look. Now comes the symbolism behind the use of green. In some instances of Western folklore,green was used as a symbol of rebirth...this goes back to the theme of redemption I talked about earlier (namely,the rebirth of Batman's virtuous NATURE in the eyes of the citizens of Gotham)...HOWEVER,the green could also be used to create a contrast of that in the sense that the events of the previous movie have made the city of Gotham "sick (AKA symbolic nausea)" and is therefore on the brink of collapse back to the way it was in Batman Begins,with the only thing keeping it from doing so is the fabricated legacy of Harvey Dent created to cover up the true nature of his demise. And finally,the use of green compliments a certain villian that could be used (which we'll get to shortly).

There IS another possible color that could be used for the dominant color scheme of the film,but it doesn't work as well as green would...and that color is purple. In most cases,purple is used to represent royalty,which obviously has nothing to do with Batman...however,if you tone that down a bit you get the association not of royalty,but of nobility which has EVERYTHING to do with Batman based on his actions at the end of TDK. Purple could also be used as another natural transitional extension of the blue used in TDK (you'll see how in the next paragraph) to maintain the moody feel and atmosphere,as well as create a state of confusion on the direction of the city as opposed to creating a metaphorical sickness,not to mention purple could contain romatic properties and undertones that would go great with any romantic angles in the film,which depending on which female villian is used,would be dead on appropriate.

But you know what they COULD do if they were REALLY ambitious? Use BOTH green AND purple in a balanced fashion (either use shades of both colors or used washed out versions of said colors to keep the bleak mood)...one way to go about this would be green exteriors with purple interiors in the daytime and purple exteriors with green interiors at night...OR another way would be to shift what color was being used in scenes based on particular character's actions,but that might be a bit too over the top and nonconsistent in look. Not only would using both colors equally contain all the implications mentioned for each individual color,but it would also be a great nod to the main villian in TDK and would clearly show the extent his actions have had on the city since TDK.

At this point we come to the million dollar question on everybody's minds...who should be the villian or villians of the next Batman film,and there are several different possibilities to go with,each having their own advantages and disadvantages. I'm not gonna get into who should be casted as what villian at this time (maybe at a later point). First,in keeping with the direction of the tone of the previous Batman films,the most obvious choice for the third Batman movie villian would be The Riddler...but how should he be portrayed?

Since The Dark Knight contained an overly monsterous main villian (The Joker),the villian of this film should possibly be one that the audience could empathize with,and The Riddler could fill that role...most mainstream versions of The Riddler (the TV series,the Animated Series,Batman Forever,etc.) interpret him as a narcissistic criminal mastermind...however,the comics hint at something else entirly different as his tendency of leaving clues (riddles) may not be narcissism at all,but rather an obsessive compulsion to always tell the truth steming from childhood abuse from his father (which would go along great with the psycholotical overtones of the previous films)...yep,we come back to the overwhelming theme of redemption here too...not only would this portrayal greatly compliment that theme of redemption (seeing as how the modern Riddler in the comics is a reformed private detective),but it would also be a ballsy and daring mainstream reinvention of the character,just as The Joker recieved a ballsy and daring mainstream character reinvention in TDK...and of course,as I alluded to earlier,his presense would compliment the use of the color green in the film's color scheme. Finally,using The Riddler would validate the use of one of his aliases in an issue of The Gotham Times used for the viral marketing of TDK,which would create a whole new way to foreshadow an upcoming villian from outside the films themselves.

However,there are some disadvantages in using The Riddler as a villian. For one,he's already been done before,ironically in the third film (Batman Forever) of the previous Batman film canon/universe...however,The Joker was also used before in the previous film canon and they got away with that due to reinventing the character,so if the same could be done for Riddler it shouldn't be that much of a problem. However,another problem arises...if The Riddler were to be the main villian,he is such a big deal that he would be at the forefront and it would be really difficult to work in any other villian on top of him (you would probably only be able to have 1 other villian presense AT THE MOST,and that INCLUDES mob based villians)...it was nothing short of a miracle that Nolan was able to integrate The Joker on top of 3 other villians,but then The Joker isn't as much of a cerebral villian as The Riddler is (dispite Nolan's Joker being pretty damn cerebral in his own right). The final problem that arises is that the empathetic obsessive compulsive Riddler might be difficult to pull off execution wise,because the underlying compulsion of leaving clues/riddles could clash and conflict with his smooth talking personality.

Now when it comes to the possibility of having the mob be involved in keeping with the previous 2 films,there are 4 different directions they could take in this area:

#1:Keep Sal Maroni as the main figure in the mob. This is the least likely and the most problematic not only because of his possible fate in TDK,but also because doing this would be the most boring route,not to mention that it would break the trend of having a different person lead the mob in the previous films.

#2:Introduce a Falconi family member,such as his son Alberto or his daughter Sofia. The problem here is that it would revert back to a Falconi runed opperation,which would not only be boring seeing as how a Falconi already ran the mob in Batman Begins,but it would also conflict with the logic of Maroni taking over the mob when a Falconi family member could have done it.

#3:Introduce an entirly new power figure in the mob just like what was done in TDK,and in the interest of balance with other possible villians included,this is probably the best overall route to go. The perfect candidate for the role? None other than Rupert Thorne.

#4:The most interesting of ideas...have one of the "freak" villians take over the mob,which would really show how bleak things have become since TDK. The most obvious choice here would be The Penguin,but theres a problem here seeing as how Nolan has constintly declared that he doesn't want to ever do Penguin on account that Penguin doesn't fit in Nolan's ultra realistic Batman world (I don't see how thats true...sure the Penguin from the old TV show,Burton's second film,and The Animated Series wouldn't work...but the one from the comics would work just fine)...so since he's out,we're left with a very interesting choice...Black Mask.

Black Mask would not only work in the sense that he could basically continue the reign of destruction from where The Joker left off (only it would benifit himself and his minions rather than just trying to destroy everything),but he would be a perfect fit if another major villian were to be included (I'll explain shortly). Another possible choice that would be rather out of left field is Scarface and The Ventriloquist,but thats HIGHLY unlikly due to the character's villian rank (C list at best),lack of popularity,and obscurity. However,the problem with most of these choices is that it would be insanely difficult,if not downright impossible to include any other major villian in the story without it being too much. Having The Riddler be in the film at the same time as ANY of these major villians is pretty much out of the question because one of them wouldn't get the attention and coverage they deserve.

Oh,but thats not all for villian possibilities...they could also take the direction of having one of Batman's antagonist love interests as one of the villians,which would fit perfectly with his romantic vunerability formed after Rachel Dawes died in TDK and would also go very well with that theme of redemption I mentioned earlier (not only in helping to rehabilitate and reform the female villian as mentioned earlier,but redeeming himself for being unable to save Rachel in TDK). There are two different avenues to go here:

#1:Talia Al Ghul...she would be the best choice to go with if they were to go in the direction of Batman/Bruce Wayne's romantic vunerability becoming his downfall,as she could use that to get close to him to extract revenge for what he did to her father in Batman Begins. She could also be a good choice if they were to decide to go with the "freak villian taking over the mob" route (any of em),as she could form a secret alliance with them in an effort to destroy Batman. Unfortunatly,her inclusion doesn't really gell that well (heh,made a rhyme) with the theme of redemption,as Batman's attempts to rehabilitate her would not only seem illogical because of her eventual huge betrayal,but it would also probably fall on deaf ears.

#2:Catwoman...the most obvious and probably logical of choices. She would fit in well here due to her high probability of being turned good (which comes back to that theme of redemption yet again) as she has had quite a few runs as a good guy in the comics. Not to mention that if Black Mask were to be the "freak villian" put in charge of the mob,Catwoman would be a great choice due to the history of hatred between the 2 in the comics. She would also be great seeing as how she was slightly hinted at in TDK...not to mention the fact that her presense would further validate and compliment the use of purple as the dominant color of the film's shots.

Some probably won't want to hear this,but as far as romantic interest villians,Catwoman is probably the best overall choice of the 2...the only real downside is that if her and a freak mob boss are the villians,The Riddler wouldn't be able to be done,or if her and The Riddler were to be done (bad combination right there,as that could decrease her rehabilitation probability),not only would there be no freak mob bosses but the mob might have to be written out entirly...the only way ALL THREE villian possibilities could be done is if the movie is over 3 and a half hours long,and EVEN THEN the movie will have a really uneven feel as it goes from one extreme to another to another.

As for other tidbits...there should be no Robin (and there most likely won't due to Nolan's repeated declaration that Robin won't be used for any of his films)...it's not like I have anything against the character,it's just that the timeline is still FAR too early to include him. They SHOULD NOT have The Joker in the film at all...I've already given a great option to allude to him when I talked about color scheme possibilities. I've heard people suggest Hush as a villian possibility...as great as that sounds in theory,I don't think it would fare too well in execution as,like with Robin,it's too early to introduce him into the story...plus,he would require lots of backstory,which would take up far too much time and would be very limiting when it comes to other villian possibilities. I've also heard Bane as a possible choice for a villian...all I have to say to that is please god no...same goes for Harley Quinn,as without The Joker or Poison Ivy (who it too unrealistic for this film universe anyway),she doesn't really amount to anything. To go along with the police manhunt for Batman,I think introducing Harvey Bullock would be ideal...Renee Montoya is completely optional.

Obviously I'm getting very deep and detailed in all this,and thats the point. Nolan's Batman films are artistically crafted within an inch of their lives,and thus contain deep thematic elements both in their written plots as well as the technical filming executions of said plots. In all honesty,The Dark Knight is gonna be extremely difficult if not downright impossible to top,but if Nolan makes something thats at least on par with Batman begins,not only will he have broken the stigma of 3rd films in a comic trilogy taking the comic series in question downhill,and not only will he have created the best comic book trilogy ever,but he will have also created one of the best film trilogies in cinema history.