On 31/08/2012 Macciza wrote:>On 31/08/2012 nmonteith wrote:>>RE: 'onsighting' aid routes. Do you blow your onsight if a piece fails>>and you fall? How do you 'fail' on an aid onsight?>>Yep - exactly the same as in any other climbing . . .

I'm still confused. So if you test your gear by jumping up and down and it pops have you blown your onsight? Even if it's just a 10cm slump onto a daisy? Or if you place a bit of gear and pull on it with your fingers to seat it better and slips out - does that blow the onsight?

On 31/08/2012 nmonteith wrote:>I'm still confused. So if you test your gear by jumping up and down and>it pops have you blown your onsight? Even if it's just a 10cm slump onto>a daisy? Or if you place a bit of gear and pull on it with your fingers>to seat it better and slips out - does that blow the onsight?

That's understandable, but it's not exactly rocket-science . . .
If you test a hold freeclimbing and your hand pops and you slump 10cm onto the draw at your waist, I think that counts as a 'fall' and you blow the onsight . . .
If you place a bit of gear and pull it through, but don't fall then you are still onsighting . . .
Just don't test as aggressively - and don't fall . . . Pretty simple, really . . .

I still contend the concept of 'no falls, first attempt' (ie flash) is better than 'onsight' for aid. I'm not trying to cheapen the effort involved, just saying like Simey that the term onsight isn't always a good fit.

On 31/08/2012 davidn wrote:>Like Neil the concept of aid onsights continues to confuse me.>>I still contend the concept of 'no falls, first attempt' (ie flash) is>better than 'onsight' for aid. I'm not trying to cheapen the effort involved,>just saying like Simey that the term onsight isn't always a good fit.

?
Onsight implies nil prior knowledge, but flash doesn't.
~> Both are possible for aid; ... as they are for all other genres of the games we play on rock.
...but from what I read on another thread, this doesn't apply to breakfast at the NatiCafe!
;-)

On 31/08/2012 nmonteith wrote:>Does a tension traverse or king swing null the onsight? You're weighting the rope after all.

~> You know that you can answer yuor own questions by inserting/substituting select words into your questions?
eg>Does a tension traverse or king swing on a freeclimb null the onsight? You're weighting the rope after all.
;-)

The answer in my opinion is no, it does not null an onsight.
~> In fact I'd go further and add that this tactic is far more preferable than bolt-laddering a traverse!