Rove v. Wade

Okay, so yesterday President Bush appointed a very conservative justice to the Supreme Court, one who will probably rule to roll back environmental protections, consumer and civil rights, and of course, Roe v. Wade. But the only really big news there, is that Bush announced the appointment yesterday.

There’s no doubt that the announcement was timed to distract attention away from a White House on the verge of implosion over Karl Rove’s outing of a CIA operative. Their goal is to suck all the air out of the controversy, by exploiting the media’s OCD-like focus on one big story at a time, and the public’s ADD-like tendency to lose interest in an issue once the headlines get bumped off the front page. But I’m not going to fall for it.

We have at least five weeks until Senate hearings start, and hell if I’m going waste that time breathlessly covering a confirmation battle the Democrats simply can’t win (assuming we want to.) Besides, the public needs to learn that elections have consequences… that with Roberts on the bench, we will be one judge away from young women dying of sepsis and other gruesome complications from back-alley abortions. As far as I’m concerned, if he’s a qualified jurist (and by all accounts he is,) let the religious right have their anti-abortion justice — it will be a Pyrrhic victory if we can make the SCOTUS a major issue in 2006 and beyond.

The Roberts appointment is neither a surprise nor a scandal… that’s what you get when you elect a President who campaigned on overturning Roe. The scandal that we should all be focusing on is the way the White House lied our nation into war, and has lied its way through a cover-up.

Karl Rove, Scooter Libby and other high-ranking White House officials leaked Valerie Plame’s identity to the press in an attempt discredit and punish Ambassador Joe Wilson, and send a warning to others who might publicly challenge the administration. Through his spokesman, the President lied to the American public about Karl Rove’s involvement in the scandal, and directly lied when he said he would fire anybody found to be involved. And it seems increasingly likely that Rove and others face criminal indictments for the outing itself, and/or the ensuing cover-up. (If you think a judge is going to jail reporters over an investigation that is not likely to produce indictments, you’re living in Cloud Cuckoo Land.)

But most importantly, the President and Vice-President of United States, and other high ranking members of their administration, repeatedly betrayed the trust of the nation and the world in laying the grounds for invading Iraq. As a result of their lies, we have spent hundreds of billions of dollars to mire us in a war in which over 1,700 US soldiers have died, another 30,000 have been wounded or maimed, and tens of thousands Iraqi’s have lost their lives. We have pissed away post-9/11 goodwill, and turned Iraq into a breeding ground for terrorists, while failing to finish the job we started in Afghanistan. It is hard to argue that the American people are safer now than we were the day our President cynically alleged in his State of the Union Address that Iraq had attempted to acquire uranium from Africa… an allegation based on evidence our own intelligence community nearly unanimously considered to be false.

Yes, nothing would please me more than to see Rove hoisted with his own petard, but in focusing on Rove we are also focusing on a corrupt administration that took America to war on a lie… and then apparently broke the law while covering it up. Rove’s scandal is Bush’s scandal, and to allow it to be bumped out of the headlines just as the truth is finally coming to a head, would be to do a great disservice to the American people.

Bush appointed a conservative justice, putting Roe at risk. What… you’re surprised? Now let’s get back to the real news.

Goldy: “Besides, the public needs to learn that elections have consequences… that with Roberts on the bench, we will be one judge away from young women dying of sepsis and other gruesome complications from back-alley abortions.”

I’ve generally had respect (or at least tolerance) for your comments and opinions — even when they’ve been over the top. But this time, you get it with both barrels:

Your comment does more to set back abortion rights than any Far Right whacko. Why? Because it kills your credibility and brings any reasonable (and vital) conversation on the subject to a screeching halt. Grow up.

You don’t have half a clue about how this guy will rule. Even ol’ Roger Rabbit can separate the “bad law” aspect of Roe from its intent. And don’t go quoting some “out-of-your-a**” mortality statistics. As Benjamin Disraeli once commented, “lies, damned lies & statistics.”

This nomination has nothing to do with abortion. If you are pro-choice you were just betrayed by your beloved W. Don’t fool yourself. Nobody, and I mean nobody, is going to overturn RvW in the near future. It is time to see that the Republican “social issues” platform was all a lie. Just as was the reasoning behind the Iraq War.

“Your comment does more to set back abortion rights than any Far Right whacko. Why? Because it kills your credibility and brings any reasonable (and vital) conversation on the subject to a screeching halt. Grow up.”

If you re-read the title of Goldy’s post, and read the text carefully, you will discover that the topic of the post is not about abortion rights or even a scandal in a Supreme Court nominee.

Goldy’s post is about a scandal in the White House.

BTW: did you see the letter written by 11 former intelligence analysts and sent to leaders in Congress? The letter can be found here.

Mark @ 2 and 11 quoting Goldy “â€œBesides, the public needs to learn that elections have consequences? that with Roberts on the bench, we will be one judge away from young women dying of sepsis and other gruesome complications from back-alley abortions.â€

What part of that paragraph do you find lacking credibility? It seems to me to be a pretty straight foward statement of fact.

“I understand the actual point of Goldy’s post was Rove, but that only makes the garbage comment even more odious. ”

Then I completely fail to understand your grip. Goldy’s post did not shut down any conversation. There will be plenty of opportunities to discuss Roe v. Wade (as happened a few posts back). For now Goldy is making a point about keeping open the discussion on the White House scandal.

I feel that this nomination to the SCOTUS is not something the Democrats should spend too much time on. They can’t defeat it, and a filabuster would detract from the tratorous acts by members of the White House.

Just point out all the liabilities of Roberts, take a partisan vote, and move on to the indictments, convictions, impeachment hearings and the War Crime Tribunal.

David, Charmin, Don*****don: Elections do have consequences. The consequence is that your side lost. Twice. Now Bush can submit to the court his choice. Your side can filibuster if you want. Your side threw up (literally) Al Gore – no backbone and John Kerry – no spine!

Mr. Goldstein is correct, this is a distraction. I moved here after my retirement from the Army 3 years ago because I had foreseen this happening when the Shrub got himself appointed in 2000.

The Washington state constitution is even stronger then the Federal Constitution when it comes to protecting those rights that we liberal/progressive’s hold dearly, e.g. reproductive freedom, no illegal search and seizure, and even limits on eminent domain. Worst case scenario is that if power reverts to the States, when the rest of the country goes back to the 1950’s or worse (McCarthyism, segregation, gay bashing, etc.) Washington will remain in the 21st Centaury.

BTW Puddybud, we DEMS won big in Washington, despite Rossi and Boss Vance’s attempt to steal the election. This is our territory and our rules.

Righton: Is Goldy saying Bush is tricky, sly, sneaky? Wow I remember the left saying that Kerry was so much smarter. He was such a brainy guy. Now we know differently once the real Yale grades were compared. Now we see that the lefties bray, wanting to remove “Bush’s Brain”. Well I heard yesterday one radio commmentator say if Rove is gone, the real Bush will emerge and the left will be scared, wery wery scared! Hmmm… Amazing what you hear in California land!

BTW Puddybud, we DEMS won big in Washington, despite Rossi and Boss Vance’s attempt to steal the election.

Sonny, you are wrong. It isn’t Repulicans that steal elections, it is the Democrats. Want to talk about Ohio in 2004? Well google Chad Staton – he is the guy that the Democrats paid in cocaine to get fraudulent voter registrations for them. Here is the link:

Commander Ogg: As a black man, I TAKE UNBRAGE TO STUPID COMMENTS ABOUT GOING BACK TO SLAVERY! Where has anyone said this. At least GBS whom I respect doesn’t say stoopid crap like this! This class warfare your side loves to spout is disheartening, and racist!

Cmdr Ogg: I thought your side was all gung ho over states rights? Now it scares you? Since WA State is so progressive, why is Boeing progressively leaving our state little by little. I just paid my quartly B&O tax. A “progressive” tax I may add. I didn’t have to pay that type of tax on the east coast! I have a friend whom now has to commute to Long Beach, CA each week to keep his Boeing employement. The Wichita plant is going strong. The plant in Everett has a half empty parking lot during the day. Yes, such a “progressive” state.

Felix: Premature? Only in your small intellectual prison would YOU think it’s premature. If you ventured into right side web sites you would have learned a thing or two about the search. But, lefties like don*****don won’t go there!!!

There’s an interesting fact that gets mentioned in an off-hand way every once in a while, but I haven’t seen really discussed: Fitzgerald’s experience includes prosecuting the Gambino mafia family, prosecuting Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman for the ’93 WTC bombing, and investigating bin Laden in the late-90’s. That shows us what league the current WH crew is in.

Oh really, pud? When folks in the admin had previously stated several times not to expect a nominee until right before Bush left for his five weeks in the Crawford inferno? And then he springs it on us two weeks early – just as the noose is tightening … hmmmm, well excuse me for being suspicious!

I venture into the rightwing blog nuthouses all the time … it is great entertainment.

Felix: That was to get the MSM and Chucky Schumer, Ted Kennedy, Dick Durban wondering whom would it be. If you remember the Leahy rhetoric, he said the nominee had to be named by Aug 1 to meet Oct 1 approval. So Bush came in ahead of time and under budget!

Glad to see you blog to the right. I feel the same way about your side blog and web sites. Most are really comical. Some are thoughtful.

“Commander Ogg: As a black man, I TAKE UNBRAGE TO STUPID COMMENTS ABOUT GOING BACK TO SLAVERY!”

What the fuck???? I don’t see any comments from the Commander about slavery here. You are the only moron mentioning slavery. (And your comment IS pretty stupid, so it appears you have offended yourself.)

“Where has anyone said this. At least GBS whom I respect doesn’t say stoopid crap like this! This class warfare your side loves to spout is disheartening, and racist!”

There goes another stupid Republican using the phrase “class warfare.” Just another example demonstrating that the Wingnuts don’t know what the term “warfare” means.

I don’t think the “row versus wade” controversy will ever be resolved. There will always be a group of steelheaders who wade the rivers, and another group who fish from drift boats, and never shall the twain meet.

To many blacks, you mention segregation = we think slavery. You ain’t black Charmin, so you can’t equate the two. Thanks for thinking about me though. I suppose being a moron beats being toilet paper!

Class warfare. Jimmy Carter stated it with his Misery Index. Your side loves to compare the poor to the middle class, the middle class to the rich. We say everyone is an American, welcome to the American dream. You heckle Miguel Estrada, we applaud him. You heckle Janice Rogers Brown, we applaud her. They experienced the American dream. What does your side do, criticize!!!

You are reading a fucking blog, asshole. Try using your brain. Read the Commander’s post again. How could anyone get any kind of slavery message out of his post. He said “segregation,” meaning he was condemning a return to institutionalized discrimination, the re-emergence of fascism, and white supremacy.

Fuck you for thinking you are the only person on this forum who can decry racism, or even slavery.

People aren’t going to avoid discussing racism, segregation, or fascism because you might accidentally think they are discussing slavery (as if that topic cannot be legitimately discussed on a political blog!). If you cannot read such discussions for what they are, then I suggest you hang out elsewhere. I would prefer you contribute productively to such discussions, however, since you can probably contribute genuine insights to such discussions, rather than your usual habit of copying wingnut bullshit and presenting it as your own.

”You ain’t black Charmin, so you can’t equate the two.”

That’s right. I am bleached and white, perfectly perforated, and pure as the driven snow (prior to use, anyway).

”Class warfare. Jimmy Carter stated it with his Misery Index.”

No it didn’t. The Misery Index came out of academia. It is one of a plethora of indices of socio-economic condition that have been used by sociologists and economists long before Carter was President (e.g. the Gini coefficient which dates to 1912).

It looks to me like you mimic this “class warfare” bullshit without having any clue whatsoever about what that term might refer to. (All wingnuts these days seem to lack an understanding of the word “war”).

OK DJ (using your original name) – You have me there. I am not a wingnut. I can admit when someone shows me the real reason of a specific post. I apologize for jumping to a wrong conclusion. I want to state for the record I am against reparations too.

Regarding class warfare, my side does not compare socio-economic levels when discussing politics. I don’t need “wingnut web site” Just go back and read John Kerry’s words on the campaign trail: “”In the past four years, in nearly every decision that he’s made, President George W. Bush has chosen the powerful and the well-connected over middle-class Americans.”

“Count the cost that working families are paying while the privileged ride high and reap the rewards,” – John Kerry

“This struggle between the people and the powerful was at the heart of every major domestic issue of the 2000 campaign and is still the central dynamic of politics in 2002.” – Al Gore

“Standing up for the people, not the powerful, was the right choice in 2000. In fact, it is the ground of the Democratic Party’s being, our meaning and our mission.” – Al Gore

“I’ll tell you why: because this administration exists for the purpose of serving the powerful and the moneyed, and we need to restore … the voices of America, the real Americans who built this country and make it strong. We need to step up and fight.” – John Kerry

I could do more with the economic class warfare issues, using Govmint statistics but that would be getting off topic of RvW.

pbj @ 20 geez, how many times are you going to bring these weakass cases up? The crackhead was a VOLUNTEER for a VOLUNTEER for an agency NOT called the Democratic Party.

And I’m sorry I’ve been gone for a while; I fear you have posted this several times without the customary rebuttal (usually uncommented on by you afterwords) that the head of CREEP in New England is under indictment for voter fraud, and is likely to be convicted since his two deputies turned state’s evidence against him in a deal. Hmm…bogus registrations for crack, never becoming a single vote, or a criminal conspiracy by top members of Bush’s team to suppress votes by Democrats? I just CAN’T imagine which would be worse!

Torridjoe: You forget the original lawsuit by Al Gore in 2000 where he was supressing votes. A link from the Puddy archives.

“In three other suits Liberty Counsel defended the rights of absentee voters in Seminole and Martin Counties. In both counties, two Democratic Operatives filed suit seeking to disqualify fifteen thousand legally cast absentee ballots in Seminole County and ten thousand absentee ballots in Martin County. In Seminole County, approximately ten thousand voted for Bush and five thousand for Gore. In Martin County, about seven thousand voted for Bush and the rest for Gore. We represented the interests of all absentee voters. Even Democrats were outraged at their party for attempting to disqualify their votes.

do not believe that Mr. Bush or anyone on the Bush campaign realized the depths to which Mr. Gore and his legal team would stoop in an attempt to steal the election. Mr. Gore and his legal team spouted one misstatement after another. During our trial on the Seminole County case, Gore addressed the American public and erroneously stated that the Seminole County Republican Supervisor of Elections had locked the doors to the Democrats and allowed the Republicans to alter ballots. He knew this was not correct and yet he propounded a lie anyway in an attempt to grab power. Although the votes in South Florida were counted and recounted, the continual misstatement of the Gore team was that the votes had not been counted. Yet in Seminole and Martin Counties where there was no question about the legally cast ballots, there was an attempt to disqualify twenty-five thousand votes. Gore also tried to disqualify the military absentee votes.” – Find it.

Don*****Don: here is the name I saved it as “Democrats Disqualify Absentee Ballots November 2000 Democrats”. I can make a copy of my Windows Explorer and post it here so you can see the saved web page. Someone tell me how to prove to don*****don I have saved it.

Don, you are the LAST PERSON to accuse anybody of anything. You masquareded as a woman until I called you out. Go scratch yourself Don or Donna? I save stuff too. I bet you save stuff too. What is your problem Don Donna? Are you upset that the Ivy League trained person can search the Internet and provide written proof to destroy your arguments?

Righton, chuck, RUFUS you should be proud of Puddy’s Internet skills. I wish could search or find stuff like he does. Unlike you Don Donna, on a debating team I would choose Puddy & PBJ over you any day of the week!

Don’t have to. I am using your logic against Pudster. Also when people answer you they say Donna … . Any truthful athiest as you “claim” to be ,would claim no I’m not a Donna. Sooooooo, you be masquerading as a woman! Where I come from, you be looked at strange. In de ghetto we have “sweet” names for your type! Do you wear women’s clothes like that dude spotlighted on Jerry Springer?

Serial lair: Hahaha I guess you mean serial liar. Where did Puddy claim he took the material as his? He said Puddy archives. I suggest you go to the Don Donna archives and find a response to his torridjoe reply. Oh yes, the Don Donna archives are all of one byte. Unfortunately for your side what he wrote is correct. Gore tried to stifle votes and then lied about it. Shame shame.

Plagiarist Don, plagiarist. Oh that’s right you said your name is not Don. But you allow people to address you in feminine proper names. You claim you are a middle aged man. Well stand up and be a MAN! GBS is a MAN! David is a MAN! Torridjoe is a MAN! Cynical is a MAN! Puddy is a MAN! I once said Donnageddon “I am a human being, what are you?”

My position, no you don’t go there. To you I have nuthin to prove. Where did he say he owned the material? Do I condone palgiarism, no. He was called on it by David (good job David) and from what I see he hasn’t palgiarized since. You can’t prove it wrong, so you project and say well the material is so good Puddy claims it has to be his!!! He said it was from his archives. If he can paste a Windows Explorer graphic of his folder, you would discount it. You are so simple in your argument. No I am not quoting Dr. Tutu. Those are my own words.

There you go again Don/Donna. You can’t understand Gore is a chump? His father was a big racist? Tennessee rejected him in 2000? He lied about Florida votes? Or you don’t understand plagiarism.

From Georgetown University: http://www.georgetown.edu/honor/plagiarism.html “You can, and this happens all the time in academia. It is necessary for building upon the works of others. The trouble comes when you start to use someone else’s words all throughout your paper. Pretty soon your paper looks like nothing but a field of quotation marks with a few country roads in between (your few sentences) connecting them. This does not represent very much intellectual work on your part. You have assembled a paper rather than writing one.”

“By the way, did you know that even using one of these small, characteristic phrases without quotation marks is considered plagiarism? This is called “The Apt Phrase” and is presented in Example V in the Honor Council pamphlet.”

Read the section on paraphrase. From now on everyone who paraphrases must cite their sources because, to be honest Don/Donna, you are demanding it!!!

Plagiarism – Claiming another person’s written material as one’s own. Plagiarism can take the form of direct, word-for-word copying or the theft of the substance or idea of the work. A student who copies an encyclopedia entry and turns it in as a report for school is guilty of plagiarism.

An unacceptable practice of using other people’s work or ideas without acknowledgement.

Act of taking credit for ideas or data without permission or that rightfully belongs to others.

The above definition are from the web. Citing the reference correctly!!!

He put the whole two paragraphs in quotes. Then said find it. Sorry Don/Donna u be wrong again!!! Puddy may not be the smartest brick on the block but he has more brains than you! He learned from David. Can you learn to be quiet Don/Donna when you have no clue what you be spouting off?

So DJ, when refuting an argument, per Don/Donna you will need to provide references when you dissemble other people’s blogs. Don/Donna claims it’s palgiarism. I don’t mind. I like arguing with you and others.

Torridjoe: I hope you have better material regarding Republicans blocking votes so Bush could win and overturn RvW. Gore did it to try and win in Florida when he should have appealed to the voters in his home state. Please don’t bring in Ohio. ALl the big cities were controlled by Democrats. If the Democrats could not man their precincts correctly it is not the Secretary of State’s fault. No matter how much you want to project, you all control the cities in Ohio, from the dog catcher to the mayor and the city councils. Fix your house first then you can attack the state. Bush won, so he gets to nominate people who may keep RvW or remove it. Can someone please tell me in the original DoI or BoR does it say judges can rule a law as unconstitutional? So if a state makes a law banning abortion, where does a court get to say that? If you can show me I’ll agree with you. I have not read it anywhere.

“How did I plagiarize? I told you all to find it. Did I claim I created it? Did I claim I wrote it?”

In fact, a few days ago, I read one of your posts, and thought I recognized it, and googled a section of text. I found that the paragraph had been copied word for word from another site. Then the next paragraph from another site. And after a brief comment paragraph, yet another paragraph from another web site.

I started composing a “Why are you plagerizing stuff, Puddy?” comment (ok. . . a little ruder than that). It was then I noticed that you had appended “- find it.” to each paragraph. I interperted that as a type of citation (as in, “it is on the web, you can find it for yourself”). So, I didn’t say anything.

So, I think this is a simple misunderstanding. I think that you are clearly trying to indicate that the text is copied, but other people do not understand your “code”. Your method is not a standard citation method or quoting method, so it leads to confusion.

I would like to offer a constructive suggestion. When you copy other people’s words verbatum, consider going out of your way to make it clear you are doing so. I usually italicize and put quote marks around other people’s words. But, when doing a large quote, using the html [blockquote] [/blockquote] is very helpful (the brackets should be angle brackets, of course). It makes it crystal clear that you are quoting someone.

Ideally, we should all cite our sources, as well, but I know that requires extra work. Sometimes I do, but sometimes when I am in a hurry and don’t do so—so long as people know it is a quote and the text is easily found via a google search.

Don/Donna I could care less about gaining YOUR respect. I wasn’t looking for forgiveness. I just went about in debate format proving that you were wrong. If you don’t know the true definition of plagiarism, then you should not accuse someone of performing it. David rightly accused Puddy of it and Puddy changed his posting methods.

Regarding respect; I want Jesus’ first, my wife’s second, my children’s third, my friends and client’s fourth. You are nowhere in that list! Now I gain respect by arguing points proving my argument side. If I am wrong I am MAN enough to say I am wrong like earlier tonight. Will you admit you were wrong Don/Donna? Or should I restart calling you IT?

DJ: Point well taken. I do remember posters complaining about italicizing here. But, in the interests of don*****don, I will use another method to ensure don*****don is not confused ever again. Thank you DJ – Charmin.

Sorry GBs. I was going to bed but DJ & Puddy posted. Now can we all get back to the RvW issue? This argument would have been different if the Democrats put Joe Lieberman on the top of the ticket!!! Yeah, I know he was not the top choice. Well I would have voted for him!!!

I stated earlier, I am personally against abortion, but who am I to say she can’t get one. It’s between her and God. We all meet judgment someday!!!!

DJ: One other thing from my watching of many posts here. It wasn’t a misunderstanding. It was a deliberate attempt to shut Puddy up because he somehow finds stuff to post to critically challenge most left leaning posters here.

“So DJ, when refuting an argument, per Don/Donna you will need to provide references when you dissemble other people’s blogs. Don/Donna claims it’s palgiarism. I don’t mind. I like arguing with you and others.”

No problem. When presenting facts or evidence, I usually try to give a source. Sometimes the information is in the public domain and I cannot trace it to a single source, but if you really want it, I will try to find it. I am an academic, so I am pretty careful to ensure I credit sources of unique information. And I prefer original documents, first-person sources, and peer-reviewed journal evidence above news reports, and news reports above editorials/blogs.

Unfortunately, it is easy to get a little lazy on blogs, where information flys fast and furiously. I am constantly trying to retrace sources of information that I read several days previously. And, as I told you before, I don’t use liberal information clearinghouses for my information (i.e. I never go to moveon, and rarely go to national blogs or other liberal rant-pages).

BTW, Pacman, thanks for the civil response to my rather harsh criticism of you earlier today. I apologize for being so hard on you.

First don*****don, you have to learn spell checking. And you were the one to tease me about English mistakes and spelling errors some time ago? I suggest M$Word. Type the message there and paste it here. But then again your pasty skills are suspect. I am a serial plagiarist? No I did it once and David rightly outed me. What is your problem? You still haven’t answered my response so you attack the messenger. You can’t answer the response. There is no lefty answer to unprove what Gore really did.

If your split pea brain could remember written dialogue from previous days, GBS chided PacMan on staying up on this blog answering GBS when his wife told him to come and get some. GBS told PacMan that he would pull is “he-man” (but then you’re not a he-man don*****don) card the next time he did it. You are really stoooooopid don*****don.

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