Unless all love ones were notified ahead of time that the person committing suicide was offing him/herself, it is undoubtedly a cowardly and most selfish act.

...JP

What about the father that comits suicide so his son with a heart defect can have his heart? Or the soldier who dives onto a live grenade to save his friends? Cowardly acts? I don't think so.

Of course, I also don't think someone deciding to die on their own terms instead of at the mercy of (pick a terminal illness here) is a cowardly act either... so maybe you consider my point of view a little skewed, but I believe a person should own their own lives from start to finish, and if a person lives their life right, they shouldn't owe anyone anything, including any obligation to stick around on this planet any longer than they want to.

"What about the father that comits suicide so his son with a heart defect can have his heart? Or the soldier who dives onto a live grenade to save his friends? Cowardly acts? I don't think so."

Either one of these examples are not what we think of when the word suicide is used.

I would not classify either as suicide because each act is unselfish. These are decisions that put others first, where typical cases of suicide loved ones come second.

When people commit suicide in the typical sense of the word, loved ones are left with deep guilt and hurt, wondering what they may have done wrong or what they could have done differently to prevent it.

No, I didn't like the joke either, because I am lamenting the loss of David Carradine. I found it disrespectful.

"What about the father that comits suicide so his son with a heart defect can have his heart? Or the soldier who dives onto a live grenade to save his friends? Cowardly acts? I don't think so."

Either one of these examples are not what we think of when the word suicide is used.

I would not classify either as suicide because each act is unselfish. These are decisions that put others first, where typical cases of suicide loved ones come second.

When people commit suicide in the typical sense of the word, loved ones are left with deep guilt and hurt, wondering what they may have done wrong or what they could have done differently to prevent it.

But the definition of suicide does not stipulate that it must be for selfish reasons... so like I said before... suicide in itself is not necessarily selfish, it depends on the circumstances.

a soldier putting his life above others is not suicide. I thought I had explained that to you already. Why are you so confused?

...JP

Just because you don't consider that suicide doesn't mean that it doesn't fit the established definition of suicide. The scenario of a soldier diving onto live ordinance to save his fellow soldiers clearly fits the definition of suicide as given below:

"su⋅i⋅cide /ˈsuəˌsaɪd/ Show Spelled [soo-uh-sahyd] Show IPA noun, verb, -cid⋅ed, -cid⋅ing. –noun 1.the intentional taking of one's own life.2.destruction of one's own interests or prospects: Buying that house was financial suicide. 3.a person who intentionally takes his or her own life.–verb (used without object) 4.to commit suicide.–verb (used with object) 5.to kill (oneself)."From: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/suicidehttp://dictionary.reference.com/browse/suicide

If you want to disect the word to death, go ahead and fight amongst yourself. Most normal people view the word as a selfish act.

...JP

Who's disecting? I'm just going to the dictionary, and I posted the entire entry.

Perhaps the problem here is that some people have difficulty thinking about alternate possibilities than the most common circumstances. I'm not going to apologise for being more intelligent than that however.

a soldier putting his life above others is not suicide. I thought I had explained that to you already. Why are you so confused?

...JP

Just because you don't consider that suicide doesn't mean that it doesn't fit the established definition of suicide. The scenario of a soldier diving onto live ordinance to save his fellow soldiers clearly fits the definition of suicide as given below:

"su⋅i⋅cide /ˈsuəˌsaɪd/ Show Spelled [soo-uh-sahyd] Show IPA noun, verb, -cid⋅ed, -cid⋅ing. –noun 1.the intentional taking of one's own life.2.destruction of one's own interests or prospects: Buying that house was financial suicide. 3.a person who intentionally takes his or her own life.–verb (used without object) 4.to commit suicide.–verb (used with object) 5.to kill (oneself)."From: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/suicidehttp://dictionary.reference.com/browse/suicide

Ok. the dictionary provides a very basic definition. But it misses a critical nuance. (It fails by assuming abject depression or insanity.) I think the necessary term for soldiers who dive on grenades to save others or a father who gives his life so his son could live (what planet is this permitted on?) would earn the distinction of self-sacrifice, selflessly giving one's own life for the sake of another or others.granted -a kind of suicide - but not without that critical separation that sets self sacrifice well above mere suicide through despondency or insanity.

Fortuneately you're no longer "most normal people" because you now have the opportunity to accept that not everything fits into a narrowly construed beliefs and that PERHAPS, just perhaps people shouldn't be judged as cowards or selfish until ALL of the circumstances surrounding their situation are examined and understood.

a person that lives with pain and misery day after day and has nothing to look forward to except more days of pain and misery for as long as he lives?

I've been living with acute/chronic pain for more than 30 years, I'm only 60 now. so I plan on living at least another 10 years with just as much, if not more, pain as I have been. The human mind can only tolerate so much pain, after that they pass out. You don't feel pain while unconscious or under anesthesia. I do take pain medication to curb to high points. Most people who encounter such pain as I have on a daily basis are usually in the hospital. From personal experience enduring acute pain is not a reason for committing suicide.

SgtMaj as usual is now resorting to name calling, stronger words to follow I'm sure.

What SgtMaj seems to be unaware of is that while sarcasm might accidently be humorous, sarcasm, in and of itself is not humor.

He needs to learn how to indicate his meaning more outright by using: :) ;) :-D :lol: :evil: :devilbanana: :yippiechick: :rant: :lau: or some other type of signal so members of the forum have a better idea of what his intent is. I think all of us on the forum deserve the courtesy.

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Ok. the dictionary provides a very basic definition. But it misses a critical nuance. (It fails by assuming abject depression or insanity.) I think the necessary term for soldiers who dive on grenades to save others or a father who gives his life so his son could lie (what planet is this permitted on?) would earn the distinction of self-sacrifice, selflessly giving one's own life for the sake of another or others.

Self sacrifice, while a form of suicide, is a valiant effort, but it is still a tradject occurrance.

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