Nice video, I miss those cars. No KERS no DRS, shorter and wider cars with a low, wide rear wing. Beautiful.I saw a video somewhere on youtube with someone from McLaren saying that the 2008 cars were the ultimate F1 cars aerodynamicwise since every area had some part improving it.

Back on topic I too wish for Massa to have a strong season, I think he will have a better one than in 2012 but I'm not expecting him to be ''up there'' at the final round.

_________________Hamilton, Ricciardo, Alonso - The best drivers on the grid.

He is a Ferrari #2, that means that he is generally going to have his ego beaten down and have to "drive for the team".

Ferrari have Massa to give up positions, rip up his gear box, block in lieu of racing and slipstream tag team, etc., for Alonso, then become belligerant against him in the press when he doesn't respond like a good Barrichello, lol.

I have no time or energy to waste on their antics. Massa's chance was while Kimi was there, now it is Alonso's show. If the team reverts to a 2007-09 scenario, then I'll be the first to give them a big thumb's up, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on that to happen...

In the second half of last season, Massa scored 99 points compared to Alonso's 124. This also includes Massa holding up traffic and letting Alonso pass him. Not bad at all.

Don't forget, when he's fired up, Massa is also a great overtaker too. Few people could pass Hamilton on the outside (4:35). IIRC, this was the weekend after Hamilton bragged "no one can overtake me on the outside".

Side note: Check out the bromance between Rosberg and Hamilton in that video (1:58). Bodes well for this season!

In the second half of last season, Massa scored 99 points compared to Alonso's 124. This also includes Massa holding up traffic and letting Alonso pass him. Not bad at all.

Don't forget, when he's fired up, Massa is also a great overtaker too. Few people could pass Hamilton on the outside (4:35). IIRC, this was the weekend after Hamilton bragged "no one can overtake me on the outside".

Side note: Check out the bromance between Rosberg and Hamilton in that video (1:58). Bodes well for this season!

He is a Ferrari #2, that means that he is generally going to have his ego beaten down and have to "drive for the team".

Ferrari have Massa to give up positions, rip up his gear box, block in lieu of racing and slipstream tag team, etc., for Alonso, then become belligerant against him in the press when he doesn't respond like a good Barrichello, lol.

I have no time or energy to waste on their antics. Massa's chance was while Kimi was there, now it is Alonso's show. If the team reverts to a 2007-09 scenario, then I'll be the first to give them a big thumb's up, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on that to happen...

Massa is #2 for a reason, though. He can put up fight against Alonso in races but over a whole season it is clear who will come in top. And Ferrari in the last 4 season have not exactly been in position to dominate a season because of their car so naturally they have to maximize every single aspect of their races for the ultimate goal - WDC. It could be unfair but Ferrari have their goals and their drivers are merely employees. Just like not every driver would be okay to be treated like Massa - not every team would be happy to tolerate his inconsistent driving leaving him 100+ points behind his teammate after the first ~10 races.

He is a Ferrari #2, that means that he is generally going to have his ego beaten down and have to "drive for the team".

Ferrari have Massa to give up positions, rip up his gear box, block in lieu of racing and slipstream tag team, etc., for Alonso, then become belligerant against him in the press when he doesn't respond like a good Barrichello, lol.

I have no time or energy to waste on their antics. Massa's chance was while Kimi was there, now it is Alonso's show. If the team reverts to a 2007-09 scenario, then I'll be the first to give them a big thumb's up, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on that to happen...

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Massa is #2 for a reason, though. He can put up fight against Alonso in races but over a whole season it is clear who will come in top.

How can we possibly know that? Massa has never raced an entire season with Alonso fair and square. He was able to challenge at the start of 2010 until the clamp was put down.

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And Ferrari in the last 4 season have not exactly been in position to dominate a season because of their car so naturally they have to maximize every single aspect of their races for the ultimate goal - WDC.

I think they would like to pursue the WCC also. (I address that below). Nonetheless, their car problems are their own fault - fix it or lose - that has always been the name of the game.

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It could be unfair but Ferrari have their goals and their drivers are merely employees. Just like not every driver would be okay to be treated like Massa - not every team would be happy to tolerate his inconsistent driving leaving him 100+ points behind his teammate after the first ~10 races.

Well I think that is the problem. Massa does not appreciate being treated poorly by Ferrari, and sometimes it shows in his poor results.

Alonso no doubt has been a much stronger driver in the Ferrari line for the past two and a half year. Last few races Massa seemed to be stronger no doubts. But, now again this year they seemed to have already given the preference to Alonso by making him test one more day and in Barcelona. Barcelona is a real circuit close to F1 specs and the car would also be having more upgrades. Also it is closer to the beggining of the season. We all know small things matter in F1. But, I am sure massa should be closer to Alonso this season.

Massa is #2 for a reason, though. He can put up fight against Alonso in races but over a whole season it is clear who will come in top.

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How can we possibly know that? Massa has never raced an entire season with Alonso fair and square. He was able to challenge at the start of 2010 until the clamp was put down.

2011 and Uhm...I watch F1? So you don't agree than Alonso is better than Massa over a season and a better bet for WDC?

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And Ferrari in the last 4 season have not exactly been in position to dominate a season because of their car so naturally they have to maximize every single aspect of their races for the ultimate goal - WDC.

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I think they would like to pursue the WCC also. (I address that below). Nonetheless, their car problems are their own fault - fix it or lose - that has always been the name of the game.

WCC has never been in reach for the last 2 seasons. Especially since me and Massa scored pretty much the same amount of points for Ferrari in the first 5-6 races. Of course it's their own problem, no one ever contested that.

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It could be unfair but Ferrari have their goals and their drivers are merely employees. Just like not every driver would be okay to be treated like Massa - not every team would be happy to tolerate his inconsistent driving leaving him 100+ points behind his teammate after the first ~10 races.

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Well I think that is the problem. Massa does not appreciate being treated poorly by Ferrari, and sometimes it shows in his poor results.

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As you said...

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fix it or lose - that has always been the name of the game

This is F1, Massa's unhappy, not performing, unmotivated because #2? Pick yourself up or you're out, it's a as simple as that. Pretty much everyone can see why Alonso is Ferrari's #1, and Felipe knows the status quo. And still he chose to sign a deal for another year, what does this tell you?

speedster_sid wrote:

Alonso no doubt has been a much stronger driver in the Ferrari line for the past two and a half year. Last few races Massa seemed to be stronger no doubts. But, now again this year they seemed to have already given the preference to Alonso by making him test one more day and in Barcelona. Barcelona is a real circuit close to F1 specs and the car would also be having more upgrades. Also it is closer to the beggining of the season. We all know small things matter in F1. But, I am sure massa should be closer to Alonso this season.

That's very misleading. In the last 7 races (Singapore, Japan, Korea, India, Abu Dhabi, US, Brazil) Felipe outqualified him twice and was faster during the race three times (Korea, US and Brazil (altough I'm not sure he was faster in Brazil on race day)). So it's not like he was head and shoulders above Alonso even then. Could the same be said about the first half of the season?

Last edited by VDV23 on Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Nice video, I miss those cars. No KERS no DRS, shorter and wider cars with a low, wide rear wing. Beautiful.I saw a video somewhere on youtube with someone from McLaren saying that the 2008 cars were the ultimate F1 cars aerodynamicwise since every area had some part improving it.

Back on topic I too wish for Massa to have a strong season, I think he will have a better one than in 2012 but I'm not expecting him to be ''up there'' at the final round.

Massa has been psychologically scared since his unfortunate incident. I wish him well and I hope he performs this season. Ferrari really need to consider him after this season. During the first part of the season last year I was just shouting to get him out out, however during the end he picked up form and I really hope he starts of this season where he left off.

I wanted him out of that Ferrari 2 years ago and I've seen nothing since to convince me he is anything other than a waste of a top seat. It annoys me that we have tallented drivers like Hulkenberg driving midfield cars and Kobayashi out of the sport altogether whilst Massa chronically underperforms season after season.

He didn't really improve in the second half of last season either. Look at his best result, 2nd at Japan. The guy didn't even make Q3, he was hopeless. Then raceday comes, Grosjean crashes into Webber, Alonso spins out with a puncture and he avoids the chaos to end up 4th. Then Button and Kobayashi get stuck in traffic after pitting and he ends up second without actually doing anything.

Then in Brazil Hulk crashes into Hamilton and Vettel is taken out on lap 1. Without all that he probably would have been about 6th.

I'm not wishing ill on Massa. I don't HOPE he fails, I just want him out of that seat because quite frankly I'm bored with him.

I wanted him out of that Ferrari 2 years ago and I've seen nothing since to convince me he is anything other than a waste of a top seat. It annoys me that we have tallented drivers like Hulkenberg driving midfield cars and Kobayashi out of the sport altogether whilst Massa chronically underperforms season after season.

He didn't really improve in the second half of last season either. Look at his best result, 2nd at Japan. The guy didn't even make Q3, he was hopeless. Then raceday comes, Grosjean crashes into Webber, Alonso spins out with a puncture and he avoids the chaos to end up 4th. Then Button and Kobayashi get stuck in traffic after pitting and he ends up second without actually doing anything.

Then in Brazil Hulk crashes into Hamilton and Vettel is taken out on lap 1. Without all that he probably would have been about 6th.

I'm not wishing ill on Massa. I don't HOPE he fails, I just want him out of that seat because quite frankly I'm bored with him.

Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Vettel & Grosjean's alternators failed in Valencia? Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Grosjean kicked Schumacher at T3 in Maleysia?Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Weber's alternator failed in India?Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Hamilton picked up the penalty in Spain?Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Schumacher picked up the penalty in Monaco?Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Hamilton picked up the Gearbox failure in Singapore?Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Massa deliberately forbidden to pass him in Korea?Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Vettel got the penalty and Hamilton got Fuel Pressure problem in Abu Dhabi?Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Massa deliberately got the greabox penalty and was forbidden to pass him during the race in USA?Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Vettel & Hamilton & Hulkenberg had their problems and Massa's slip-streaming help in Brazil?

I'm just saying you know... It's easy to look at only one side of the story.

_________________

Last edited by GicaEric on Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:25 am, edited 2 times in total.

I wanted him out of that Ferrari 2 years ago and I've seen nothing since to convince me he is anything other than a waste of a top seat. It annoys me that we have tallented drivers like Hulkenberg driving midfield cars and Kobayashi out of the sport altogether whilst Massa chronically underperforms season after season.

He didn't really improve in the second half of last season either. Look at his best result, 2nd at Japan. The guy didn't even make Q3, he was hopeless. Then raceday comes, Grosjean crashes into Webber, Alonso spins out with a puncture and he avoids the chaos to end up 4th. Then Button and Kobayashi get stuck in traffic after pitting and he ends up second without actually doing anything.

Then in Brazil Hulk crashes into Hamilton and Vettel is taken out on lap 1. Without all that he probably would have been about 6th.

I'm not wishing ill on Massa. I don't HOPE he fails, I just want him out of that seat because quite frankly I'm bored with him.

Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Vettel & Grosjean's alternators failed in Valencia? Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Grosjean kicked Schumacher at T3 in Maleysia?Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Weber's alternator failed in India?Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Hamilton picked up the penalty in Spain?Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Schumacher picked up the penalty in Monaco?Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Hamilton picked up the Gearbox failure in Singapore?Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Massa deliberately forbidden to pass him in Korea?Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Vettel got the penalty and Hamilton got Fuel Pressure problem in Abu Dhabi?Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Massa deliberately got the greabox penalty and was forbidden to pass him during the race in USA?Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Vettel & Hamilton & Hulkenberg had their problems and Massa's slip-streaming help in Brazil?

I'm just saying you know... It's easy to look at only one side of the story.

What you talking about Alonso for in a Massa thred Have you nothing good to say about Massa ? Hmm

I wanted him out of that Ferrari 2 years ago and I've seen nothing since to convince me he is anything other than a waste of a top seat. It annoys me that we have tallented drivers like Hulkenberg driving midfield cars and Kobayashi out of the sport altogether whilst Massa chronically underperforms season after season.

He didn't really improve in the second half of last season either. Look at his best result, 2nd at Japan. The guy didn't even make Q3, he was hopeless. Then raceday comes, Grosjean crashes into Webber, Alonso spins out with a puncture and he avoids the chaos to end up 4th. Then Button and Kobayashi get stuck in traffic after pitting and he ends up second without actually doing anything.

Then in Brazil Hulk crashes into Hamilton and Vettel is taken out on lap 1. Without all that he probably would have been about 6th.

I'm not wishing ill on Massa. I don't HOPE he fails, I just want him out of that seat because quite frankly I'm bored with him.

Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Vettel & Grosjean's alternators failed in Valencia? Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Grosjean kicked Schumacher at T3 in Maleysia?Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Weber's alternator failed in India?Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Hamilton picked up the penalty in Spain?Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Schumacher picked up the penalty in Monaco?Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Hamilton picked up the Gearbox failure in Singapore?Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Massa deliberately forbidden to pass him in Korea?Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Vettel got the penalty and Hamilton got Fuel Pressure problem in Abu Dhabi?Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Massa deliberately got the greabox penalty and was forbidden to pass him during the race in USA?Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Vettel & Hamilton & Hulkenberg had their problems and Massa's slip-streaming help in Brazil?

I'm just saying you know... It's easy to look at only one side of the story.

What you talking about Alonso for in a Massa thred Have you nothing good to say about Massa ? Hmm

C'mon man, it's not hard to read the post above - He could've used anyone but Alonso, he was talking about how the previous poster was slating Massa's results by saying they only came about from the misfortune of others. He used the Alonso notes to add perspective.

Where would Vettel have come in Abu Dhabi if Hamilton didn't retire?Where would Vettel have come in Spa if everyone hadn't been taken out by Grosjean

and so on, and so on. Really doesn't need explaining this much. Frankly this forum's become a hostile bitching ground again and I can't wait for next week just so we can start arguing about how Mercedes are going to beat all this season

Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Vettel & Grosjean's alternators failed in Valencia? If Massa had been anywhere near Alonso's pace, he could have taken advantage too.Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Grosjean kicked Schumacher at T3 in Malaysia?If Massa had been anywhere near Alonso's pace, he could have taken advantage too.Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Weber's alternator failed in India?If Massa had been anywhere near Alonso's pace, he could have taken advantage too.Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Hamilton picked up the penalty in Spain?If Massa had been anywhere near Alonso's pace, he could have taken advantage too.Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Schumacher picked up the penalty in Monaco?If Massa had been anywhere near Alonso's pace, he could have taken advantage too.Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Hamilton picked up the Gearbox failure in Singapore?If Massa had been anywhere near Alonso's pace, he could have taken advantage too.Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Massa deliberately forbidden to pass him in Korea?Well if he hadn't been sh*te the rest of the season with less than half his team mates points total, he'd have been allowed to race.Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Vettel got the penalty and Hamilton got Fuel Pressure problem in Abu Dhabi?If Massa had been anywhere near Alonso's pace, he could have taken advantage too.Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Massa deliberately got the greabox penalty and was forbidden to pass him during the race in USA?Well if he hadn't been sh*te the rest of the season with less than half his team mates points total, he'd have been allowed to race.Hmm, I wonder how would've Alonso finished hadn't Vettel & Hamilton & Hulkenberg had their problems and Massa's slip-streaming help in Brazil?Massa had exactly the same help from the other drivers problems.

I'm just saying you know... It's easy to look at only one side of the story.

Alonso isn't lucky. He is just fast and reliable. As such he is usually there to take advantage whenever misfortune befouls one of the leaders. Massa actually ended up better off because of most of these incidents too. The only difference is he was fighting with Mercs and Saubers for 9th and 10th.

Massa finished 4th on merit in Silverstone, USA, Monza and Korea. The rest of the races he'd have been fighting for the lower points finishes without other drivers having problems.