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Author
Topic: Beautiful Disaster89 (Read 16045 times)

Almost a year ago I fell in love for the first time with an amazing man ... with him i felt so free and invincible and I felt like everything was going phenomenal ....we hadn't been intimate probably until 3 or 4 months into our relationship(oral sex only... I had never had anal sex before.. still haven't unfortunately lol) Then we decided that if were going to go any further in our relationship that we needed to get tested. I had never been tested before because I was under the impression that you couldn't catch HIV from performing oral sex... I was wrong and I ended up being positive ....i immediately told my guy about being positive and he's been by my side ever since... after months of trying to get back to me, we decided that were ready to try being intimate again but before we could go any further I needed him to get tested once more ... though he previously came back negative we had just had oral sex weeks prior so there was a chance that he could also be positive .. he got his test result yesterday and they came back positive....I just hate that he has to go through this I hate that I hadn't gotten tested before and I all I can do is blame myself ..sure he's holding strong about it but I just feel incredibly guilty..help me out!!!!!! lol

I tested positive as of 09/2012 (I'm 23 years old) and after six months its been incredibly hard to deal with....since I never thought to fully educate myself on HIV I have the stigma stuck in my head that I'm going to die young..even though I know that as long as i take my medication continue exercising and eat healthier foods I still find myself still fearful ... does anyone have any success stories they can share?... Am I the only one who has felt this way...?

I was wondering if you had a western blot test to confirm you do indeed have HIV . I'm also going to move your other thread over into this one until you have become more acquainted with the forum . Thanks .

One thing you should consider is that transmission of HIV through oral sex is incredibly rare. If you believe you got HIV through oral sex, ok, so be it. Its not important.Now you are feeling guilty because you believe that you transmitted HIV to your guy, again through oral sex.This is getting to be a tall tale...

Listen, it is is highly highly unlikely your guy got HIV from having oral sex with you...

Do you two both have western blot HIV+ tests???

Also - one thing you could clarify - are you taking HIV medicine? Do you know your numbers? You've been HIV+ 6 months - so what are your numbers....

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“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Tall tale??? Wow...I decided to open up and see of there was anyone out there that could relate to what I'm dealing with right now and pretty much you've called me a liar lol but before I remove myself from this forum let me make this clear....supposedly since I'm already carrying a gum disease and as of now Dallas Texas are finding that the strands of HIV in someones body is incredibly strong right now that's why I've gotten it....believe what you want to believe that's your business but how about the next time someone tells you there story you attempt to be less heartless

I will resist attempts to figure out what HIV strain is only found in the Great State of Texas.

Klehman, the route of transmission that you have described is incredibly rare and is something I think very few people people here, and certainly not me, can relate to. So ideally, you might like to find a forum where people who got HIV through oral sex can share their stories and discuss their concerns. But I think this forum is the next best thing, a forum for people who got HIV from anal sex, vaginal sex, shooting drugs, drinking breast-milk and receiving blood transfusions. Hopefully, like me, you'd eventually realise two things: who you got HIV from and how you got it is largely irrelevant. If your Western Blot confirms that you have HIV, then its time to think about adjusting your lifestyle to stay alive.

I will resist attempts to figure out what HIV strain is only found in the Great State of Texas.

Klehman, the route of transmission that you have described is incredibly rare and is something I think very few people people here, and certainly not me, can relate to. So ideally, you might like to find a forum where people who got HIV through oral sex can share their stories and discuss their concerns. But I think this forum is the next best thing, a forum for people who got HIV from anal sex, vaginal sex, shooting drugs, drinking breast-milk and receiving blood transfusions. Hopefully, like me, you'd eventually realise two things: who you got HIV from and how you got it is largely irrelevant. If your Western Blot confirms that you have HIV, then its time to think about adjusting your lifestyle to stay alive.

You tell him it doesn't matter where we get HIV from but to go away to find somewhere else that is for people who believe they got it through oral sex? Erm...

And mecch? You're welcome to this guy is to call him a liar? What happened to supporting people? Maybe there have been other routes of infection but maybe that's something for the OP to consider for himself, after time, with some pointers in the right direction rather than as an aggressive response to his first post.

Maybe I'm too new here to get it myself and maybe there are lots or people who come on here with tall tales and they need to be called straight away.

Anyway, Klehman, welcome to the forums. They are useful, don't be put off by the welcome received.

Wow.... I came to this forum because I thought I would get a lot of love and support because we are all battling the same exact thing..but so far i feel like I'm on someones youtube page getting bashed lol. My intentions was never to offend anyone with the information I was provided so I do apologize. ....But since I "dont belong on this forum", I will find somewhere else to go. I wish you all the best of luck...stay strong, stay hungry.. and continue to love hard

I think you need to get your results from the Western blood test.Until then its is doubtfull you have VIH, that's what everyone is saying one way or another.The way you think you got it is very doubtful, it would be the exception to the rule, which is by no means weird.

Anyway if you have it , you will have support like everyone else, but the way you got it will remain a mystery. So that's what they are telling you if you have it go on and join the rest of us and change your attitude of been rejected, they just don't agree as the way you might have gotten it.

So continue your battle your disease if you have it, and be practical, get the information you need and educate your self about vih in this forum. There is no doubt in my mind you will find some site better than this.Regards.

incidentally i am also from dallas. I've often wondered if perhaps i somehow contracte HIV through oral sex. I know it seems unlikely but...well i've sucked a lot of dick and barely had any unprotected sex! theres one guy i've had unprotected anal sex with that i have been unable to contact so I am assuming he's the culprit. In the end, it really doesnt matter how you were infected. The point is that you are here now. I hope everything works out well for you and your partner and try not be so discouraged by the negativity that sometimes seeps into these forums.

Thank you for that I really appreciate the support. I'm going to try to stay on here and see what happens... .. Moving on to my first question what's a Western blood test??? I mean I did the rapid test went to dallas county and did more blood work ..now I'm on the ryan white program and everythime ive done bloodwork at the dr.'s office they havent said that I dont have HIV or that there was a mistake sooooo enlighten me lol

The western blot is a confirmatory blood test that they use after youve tested positive cia an oral swab or another form of rapid test. If you have had blood drawn, chances are this is what they did. after your western blot confirms you are positive, they will do another blood draw to check on your cd4 counts and viral load to see how progressed your case is.

I know what your feeling as I am going through a similar situation myself. I received a call from a local health office that I may have been expose to a STD over 90 day ago. I told my partner, who I have been together with since 11/12, and we decided we would both get tested. My last HIV test was neg on 05/12 and my partners was 7/12. We both tested positive on 01/25/13.

I have been the only one that he has unprotected sex with since then. Did I give him this virus? maybe and I felt much guilt. My partner tells me that he know that I'm am the one who gave him this virus, however he says that he doesn't blame me. We both had taken risks in the past and knew the risks and we each willing took those risk. Yes the risk lower with oral sex yes, however there is a risk and with bleeding gums I would think that risk would increase. Either way I don't think it serves a purpose to split hairs. If you have HIV you have HIV.

In my case me and my partner have grown closer and have been there for each other. We can not look in the past and try to figure out when and where it happened. I ended up in the Hospital August 1-2, 2012 with a 102 fever that would not go away. My doctor thinks that is probable when the virus took hold in me.

I don't know if any of this help you, however I'm right there with you going through this situation with my partner. I have broken down many time and cried so much thinking that I had brought this into the relationship. It sucks and just when I found the person who I when I first met we just connected and I feel is my soul mate. He tell me everything happen for a reason. I know now that everything will be okay! I just need to remind myself that.

Anyway your not alone and I understand what your going through. I hope this helps

@aaware72Yes that definitely helps!!!! I appreciate you for sharing your story with me :-). When I initially got on this forum I did it because I wanted someone to give me advice on how to be there for my guy... but last night we talked and he told me that he doesnt blame me and he knows that hes going to be okay its just the fact that he has to tell his loved ones about the situation... After we talked and cried together I just realized that everyone has a story no relationship is perfect ..we're going to have obstacles to overcome.. I absolutely agree with your partner everything does happen for a reason ...But I feel its up to us to continue to make our story into something great and memorable

Sorry. Thank you for clarifying that you meant that in a nonjudgmental way. I have gotten so used to being overly criticized on these boards for every word I chose that it has put me on the defensive. I probably need to "chill out" as well and try to remember that not everyone on this board is bent on belittling my advice and starting petty arguments based around semantics.

Sorry. Thank you for clarifying that you meant that in a nonjudgmental way. I have gotten so used to being overly criticized on these boards for every word I chose that it has put me on the defensive. I probably need to "chill out" as well and try to remember that not everyone on this board is bent on belittling my advice and starting petty arguments based around semantics.

maybe i just need more coffee.

Here is a second idea, and offered in a non-judgmental way.

Is it possible that sometimes a person xan misinterpret clarification, and even criticism as judgment and then decide that the poster is picking on them, therefore rendering all subsequent interactions contentious?

Sometimes asking for clarification can be a helpful tool to avoid problems in a forum which consists of the written word. And emoticons, of course.

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"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

I was hoping to ask for more information - my idea was to directly address your feeling of guilt - about your belief that you transmitted HIV to your friend....

More information could help people address your fears and beliefs. And anyway, what to do now, going forward.

I didn't call you a liar, by using the expression, "tall tale". At least, I didn't mean to. I meant that two (2) oral transmissions of HIV in one person's story starts to seem far-fetched - but thats just in the context of how often we hear of oral transmission here, and how little it actually happens. Since you are feeling so guilty, this information (that oral transmission is far-fetched) could help you investigate other possible scenarios.

I was wondering if you were already on HAART - and asked that - because you said "take my medicine" - because if you are, that would be yet ANOTHER way that you could feel less worried that you transmitted HIV.

Are you thinking he got it from you, because you have gum disease? You think you transmitted it to him by you being passive oral with him???

You think you got it, due to gum disease, correct?

Anyhow, as people have explained, both scenarios are unlikely, but sure, there is always room for the rare exception.

Most of us figure out that routes of transmission are not that important, going forward. But for the moment, you specifically expressed this guilt, and I think you need to learn more, ask more, and that might be a way out of this guilt.

Hope that helps.

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“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

one of websters definitions for culprit is:: the source or cause of a problem

i think we can all agree that being infected with HIV is a problem.

I agree it is a problem, but by having unprotected sex with this guy you mentioned then you have caused your own problems, don't you agree? it's not the fair to blame the other guy for your infection, sometimes you just have to accept your mistakes and move on, blaming someone else can lead to stressful situations and that's not good for you.

it's not the fair to blame the other guy for your infection, sometimes you just have to accept your mistakes and move on, blaming someone else can lead to stressful situations and that's not good for you.

I wish this forum has a way of liking posts...or a vote up vote down system...better yet, an "Amen!!" button.

we can always blame ourselves. hiv infection is not something that "just happens". It's the direct result of having unprotected sex.if ever anyone is looking for someone to "blame" for their hiv infection, they never need look any further than their own self. besides it doesn't do anything to deal with the consequences to go looking for someone else

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leatherman (aka mIkIE)

All the stars are flashing high above the seaand the party is on fire around you and meWe're gonna burn this disco down before the morning comes- Pet Shop Boys chart from 1992-2015Isentress/Prezcobix

Yea what's done is done lol so answer me this how long has it taken any of you to heal??? like mentally heal??? One week its the last thing on my mind then the next week its on my mind ... feed back por favor

@mecch I just went to the doctor for an update on my health and my TCells are at 470 and Viral load is at 10,0000 which is odd because i havent started medications yet and just a 2 months ago i was at TCells 404 and Viral load 20000

@mecch I just went to the doctor for an update on my health and my TCells are at 470 and Viral load is at 10,0000 which is odd because i havent started medications yet and just a 2 months ago i was at TCells 404 and Viral load 20000

I'm assuming you meant your VL went from 10,000 > 20,000? It is my understanding that your CD4 count can vary by 100 based on the time of day your blood it taken and other factors.

Hopefully someone can come along with a link that shows the progression of HIV infection. It's normal, after a recent infection, for you CD4's to improve and your VL to decrease thanks to your body's immune response.

You might see continued improvements for a while until your body can no longer fight the virus then the trend worsens.

Yea what's done is done lol so answer me this how long has it taken any of you to heal??? like mentally heal??? One week its the last thing on my mind then the next week its on my mind ... feed back por favor

@mecch I just went to the doctor for an update on my health and my TCells are at 470 and Viral load is at 10,0000 which is odd because i havent started medications yet and just a 2 months ago i was at TCells 404 and Viral load 20000

Just curious, have you discussed this with your doctor? Has your doctor talked to you about what your numbers mean, treatment options and what you can look forward to regarding your health? Did you ask him/her about the Western Blot? If you haven't then you really should.

Just curious, have you discussed this with your doctor? Has your doctor talked to you about what your numbers mean, treatment options and what you can look forward to regarding your health? Did you ask him/her about the Western Blot? If you haven't then you really should.

I read in one of his post yesterday that he is on Ryan White now , so he has definitely had a western blot done to confirm the diagnosis . .

Yea I've talked to my doctor and she has given me a lot of insight.. she told me that my numbers are good as of now and she suggest that i take medication so it i can reach undetectable status in 6 months so i'm starting medication next week Thank God!! lol. And yes like Jeff G stated Im under the Ryan white program so its been confirmed that im positive

Hopefully someone can come along with a link that shows the progression of HIV infection. It's normal, after a recent infection, for you CD4's to improve and your VL to decrease thanks to your body's immune response.

You might see continued improvements for a while until your body can no longer fight the virus then the trend worsens.

Wolfie

ask and ye shall receive!

what this chart shows 89, is that at initial infection your numbers get real bad for a while. then they turn around and things are really good. But slowly HIV begins to win the fight and anywhere from 2 to 10 yrs later things go badly and meds are required to prevent AIDS and death.

if you were more recently infected it would easily explain your VL dropping and cd4 rising.

The best way to look at these numbers (especially the cd4) is over a period with at least 3 tests. You may want to hold off on meds then if your next test comes back with VL 100 and CD4 700 (or something like that). Or you may want to go ahead - if you have access to meds and if you're ready to stay adherent!

you should probably check out the LESSONS section here (it's under the TREATMENT link in the gray menubar above), since you don't know much about HIV. and yes, HIV is freaky for a while; but it gets better. There are plenty of people around here who have lived with it 20+ yrs. Matter of fact this 2012 link and this old 2008 link are about studies that show people who are HIV positive live "normal" lifespans. So make sure to plan for retirement!

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leatherman (aka mIkIE)

All the stars are flashing high above the seaand the party is on fire around you and meWe're gonna burn this disco down before the morning comes- Pet Shop Boys chart from 1992-2015Isentress/Prezcobix

@leatherman thank you so much for your assistance and your insight I really appreciate it. I think I'm going to start medication now because I want to be ahead of the game ya know??? Hopefully by starting medication and continuing to work out and eat healthy(aside from my Friday mooyah burger lol) I'll be in good standings as far as the HIV goes *crosses fingers* I am most definitely going to look at the links you've provided

continuing to work out and eat healthy(aside from my Friday mooyah burger lol) I'll be in good standings as far as the HIV goes *crosses fingers*

just FYI working out and eating healthy ARE really good things; but neither will do anything for the HIV. the only thing that stops HIV are the antiretrovirals. So once you start those - stick to them!

and please try not to freak out about the meds either. The meds (like google LOL) are you friends! Plenty of people take daily meds for all sorts of things to keep themselves alive and in that respect taking HIV meds isn't any different.

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leatherman (aka mIkIE)

All the stars are flashing high above the seaand the party is on fire around you and meWe're gonna burn this disco down before the morning comes- Pet Shop Boys chart from 1992-2015Isentress/Prezcobix

really?!?!?! That sucks I thought eating healthy and working out was very important in order to maintain a healthy body while having HIV I mean of course i know you should eat healthy and exercise healthy regardless but i thought it was really beneficial in this area

sure eating right and exercising is important - but it's only as important as it is to anyone. Nothing about being "healthy" does anything to affect HIV, viral load or even cd4 very much.

Your immune system (with your cd4s) is happier when you're "healthy" but being "healthy" does not equate to having a good immune system. And a "good" immune system doesn't have a very good definition either. Some people with cd4s in the 300-400 range are as healthy as (or even more healthy) as people in the 800-1000 range. The most important part though is to have cd4 counts OVER 200 because that's the level at which HIV is able to cause a lot of problems and a person is classified as having AIDS. Some people with AIDS feel and seem and sometimes are still "healthy" for a long time.

HIV is a virus and doesn't care how healthy you are. If being "healthy" stopped HIV then all we'd need to do was work out some to stop the problem. But its not like that. HIV flourishes at any level of a person's "healthiness". It's ONLY ARVs that do anything to stop HIV. period.

but all that isn't too say that being healthy (eating right and exercising) isn't a GOOD thing. It sure helps to have a nicer, more energetic, and happier life to be feeling "well" and being "healthier". that also doesn't mean that partying with liquor and drugs (or food) doesn't lead to a happier life sometimes too - although I recommend "moderation".

I do heartily endorse being healthy. Healthy makes life happier; but don't be fooled that being healthy does anything against HIV.

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leatherman (aka mIkIE)

All the stars are flashing high above the seaand the party is on fire around you and meWe're gonna burn this disco down before the morning comes- Pet Shop Boys chart from 1992-2015Isentress/Prezcobix

Ok I understand I'll make sure once I get started on medication to be consistent..still eat healthy and workout (just because its the best thing to do regardless of my circumstance) and just follow the doctors orders ..I know this is a responsibility now so I'm going to do my best to cooperate!!! :-)

we can always blame ourselves. hiv infection is not something that "just happens". It's the direct result of having unprotected sex.if ever anyone is looking for someone to "blame" for their hiv infection, they never need look any further than their own self. besides it doesn't do anything to deal with the consequences to go looking for someone else

Not every infection occurs from having unprotected sex. This in no way means some infections are better than others. But, I get your point that the vast majority are due to unprotected sex.

ah! oops!or sharing needles (my bad! I've just had very little contact with people who have gotten it through needles) Thankfully, in the US, we've stopped mother-to-child transmission and probably most if not all transfusion-related transmissions.

so the "blame" should fall (if anyone has to be blamed ) on the individuals themselves who have unprotected sex or share needles

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leatherman (aka mIkIE)

All the stars are flashing high above the seaand the party is on fire around you and meWe're gonna burn this disco down before the morning comes- Pet Shop Boys chart from 1992-2015Isentress/Prezcobix

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Hey Guys, just so you know, it's very possible to get hiv through oral sex and I'm living proof of that. Here is my story briefly. My bf and I decided to have a threesome with a guy the beginning of Dec 2 2012. We're not in an open relationship but we do sometimes invite others into it, but always always safe, no questions ask. Anyway this night by the time the guy got to our place we were both kind of tired and we all just ended up giving each other oral, with no cumming in each other's mouths either. Anyhoo, the guy left and I never thought anymore of it.

Fast forward to Dec 26 2012, when I became very sick with what I thought was the flu. The thing that was weird with this flu was that I had a rash on my torso. I went to the doctor just to rule out meningitis. The doctor thought it was unrelated to my flu symptoms and sent me home. Anyway, I will really sick until about mid january and slowly slowly started to get better after that. I went back to see the doctor again the last week of january because I was still really tired and having night sweats. He took some blood tests and on Feb 20, 2013 called me to his office because he wanted to see me. That's when he told me I had hiv. I couldn't believe it, it made no sense. How could I have gotten hiv from oral sex. If I would have thought there was a chance I had got infected I would have gone to a clinic to get treatment right away. The only thing I can think of is that my mouth was very dry that night and when that happens my bottom teeth irritate my bottom lip, and maybe it entered through that way.

I have read the literature, and it all says very low risk. I have a friend who is a doctor and gay, and he can't beleive it happened this way, nor can I. I think that people usually do anal and oral at the same time, not just one or the other so it's pretty hard to have exact statistics of how many people actually contract the virus through oral. Unless I'm super super super SUPER unlucky, that's how I got it. And by the way I was tested the beginning of 2012 and was negative and my bf also had a test done after I tested positive and he came back negative. So the only way I could have got this virus was through oral sex. And the time from being infected on dec 2, until I stared showing symptoms, dec 26, all very much make sense.

I got them to retest me with a rapid test at the same time as my bf because we didn't believe it, we thought it was a mistake. But both the ELISA and rapid test were positive so I'm assuming I'm positive. I also had my preliminary blood work done and my viral load is around 150,000 but my CD4 wasn't in yet, I'm hoping to get it early this week.

I think people should be more aware that there is a risk with oral. I know my doctor friend said he's going out to get tested this week because I've scared the hell out of him. Mark

Mike, it's rare to become infected through oral sex. What most likely happened is that the guy you blew was very newly infected himself and had a sky-high viral load, as is very common in acute infection. He probably had no idea he was infected. (You may want to contact him, or have your local health authority contact him if you want to remain anonymous to him, to let him know he needs to test. He may still have no idea he is hiv positive.)

Add that possibility to your lack of saliva (saliva contains over a dozen different proteins and enzymes that damage hiv and render it unable to infect) and an open irritation on your bottom lip, well, yes, you may have been very, very, very unlucky.

While I do not for a minute think that oral transmission happens as often as some people believe, under the right circumstances* it is possible. Possible, not probable. *The right circumstances being an extremely high viral load in the person being blown, and an oral health problem with the person doing the blowing.

There have been studies of couples where one is positive and one is negative. In the couples who consistently used condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, but no barriers for oral, not one of the negative partners became infected.

However, one group these studies could not possibly look at are people who are in the very early stages of infection, with a sky-high viral load, who do not yet know they're positive because if nothing else, at this point many people would still test antibody negative. A person can be highly infectious before they've produced enough antibodies to trigger a positive antibody test result.

Another thing that points to the rarity of oral transmission is the fact that there has never been a woman who claimed that the only possible transmission route was oral sex. It's only ever been gay men who claim this route. Considering there are far more women who give blowjobs than there are men (due to the fact that overall, gay men are in the minority), oral transmission is indeed rare.

At the end of the day, what matters now is that you know you are hiv positive and you can take the necessary steps to preserve your health. It doesn't matter so much how you got here, what matters is where you go from here.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Sorry to her about your situation. I do think getting HIV from oral is low.... BUT!!! I believe it is much higher than studies are showing, there too many environmental factors that can be masking transmission. I know a few people who have caught HIV through oral (they only did oral, never done anal) I think it just takes one small micro cut in your mouth, that you most likely won't know is there, maybe a scratch from chewing on a bone, hard food that is crispy e.t.c And there you go. I do think they should start making super thin condoms just for oral sex that don't feel like plastic. Not just for HIV but for many other STDs.

There are superthin condoms available in specialty shops, internet, even a pretty decent one in my supermarket.. I don't feel it all that much on my peewee, but in the mouth you can taste if, of course.

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“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Sorry to her about your situation. I do think getting HIV from oral is low.... BUT!!! I believe it is much higher than studies are showing, there too many environmental factors that can be masking transmission. I know a few people who have caught HIV through oral (they only did oral, never done anal) I think it just takes one small micro cut in your mouth, that you most likely won't know is there, maybe a scratch from chewing on a bone, hard food that is crispy e.t.c And there you go. I do think they should start making super thin condoms just for oral sex that don't feel like plastic. Not just for HIV but for many other STDs.

There are some obvious flaws in your theory about oral sex . The first problem is that you are dismissing scientific studies for anecdotal evidence based on misinformation . Its seems you are willing to dismiss the data that's backed by sound science and except anecdotal stories and claims in their place .

The other thing you claim is that HIV can be acquired through micro cuts in the mouth and that claim is 100% false , its simply not true and has no basis in science what so ever .

There have been no fewer than three separate serodiscordant couples studies (where one person is HIV positive, the other negative.) These couples were tracked for three. five and ten years. The couples used condoms for penetrative vaginal and anal sex, but NO BARRIER at all for oral sex. Any kind of oral sex.

These studies yielded NO infections.

You also are lumping all oral sex into one assumption and that's just not something that should be done or left unanswered . HIV transmission doesn't stand a chance of happening via female genitals to mouth - there are just too many obstacles on the oral route.

The first obstacle is the mouth itself. The mouth is a veritable fortress, standing against all sorts of pathogens we come into contact with every minute of our lives. It's a very hostile environment and saliva has been shown to contain over a dozen different proteins and enzymes that damage HIV.

HIV is a very fragile virus - literally. Its outer surface doesn't take kindly to changes in its preferred environment; slight changes in temperature, moisture content and pH levels all damage the outer surface. Importantly, it needs this outer surface to be intact before it can latch onto a few, very specific cell types and infect.

Which leads to the second obstacle. HIV can only latch onto certain types of cells, cells which are not found in abundance in the mouth.

The third obstacle to transmission this way is having HIV present in the first place. The female secretion where HIV has been shown to be present is the cervicovaginal fluid. This fluid is actually a thick mucus that covers and protects the cervix.

The fluid a woman produces when sexually excited comes from the Bartholin's glands, located on either side of the vaginal opening. I have yet to discover one shred of evidence (and believe me, I've looked) that shows this lubricating fluid to have any more HIV present than other bodily secretions such as saliva, sweat or tears. Saliva, sweat and tears are NOT infectious fluids.

So there you have it. Once the results of the serodiscordant studies started rolling in, what we know about HIV transmission on the cellular level was validated. The only people who were getting infected were those who had unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse. Period. One of the three studies went on for ten years and involved hundreds of couples. That's a lot of nookie.

Jeff. I am aware that you are a Mod and I don't want to get in trouble. Yes, it is low risk but it's not impossible. The information I got was from the CDC, the Body and aidsmap, all stating about cuts in small cuts in the mouth, inflammation, you have a higher risk of contracting HIV. HIV is a complicated virus and each persons physiology is different. I personally think it's unwise to say it's good as impossible, no one can say for 100% that a person won't get infected through oral sex, no one should have to go through this disease. I would be interested to read any studies you have (Links) on why you state this. Guaranteed, HIV negative people looking for information read threads like this and should be give all the information unbiased.