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Topic: The one thing I hate about HIV the most... (Read 11244 times)

I have been reading posts here for some time now and there have been so many topics that I can relate to, but I rarely post my thoughts and feelings because I am just too damned tired to do so. Most of the topics that I can relate to involve self esteem or self image issues and how others view us.After this weekend though, I do have something to contribute and want to see what you all may have to say about what I am feeling.Now I have to say, I love NYC and always have....its my favorite city in the US and just this past year, we have been there 7 times. Our usual trips include exploring different areas of the city during the day, then hitting the gay bars at night. We usually go to the bars together, but once there, we go out on our own to meet and talk with men.My SO of 10 years (he is neg) and I went to Manhattan for a meet and greet this past Friday, with an online travel related group I belong to. I got there ahead of him as he had to work Friday. After I attended the meet and greet with the travel group, I had some time to visit our fav bars and restaurant before he arrived later that night.Now not to toot my own horn, but even after being poz for 16 years and being 48 yo, I receive a great deal of attention from men, and even some women in mixed settings. I have always believed in taking care of my self, both health wise with good HIV doctors and in the physical appearance sense as well, and it shows. I am damned proud of my appearance, but not to the point where I am unapproachable. I talk to everyone who is interested in speaking with me and am not a self absorbed bar fly who goes out to tease or belittle anyone. I believe in order to be healthy inside your outside physical being has to be the best you can make it, and in my case, I work hard to look and feel as I do. Of course, with the physical well being we strive for, our mental aspect is an important, if not the most important, side of who we are as well. In my case, two of the three are taken care of!! Now to attempt deal with some emotional issues that are causing me some concern I need some unbiased opinions.In all of our trips to the city, although I receive many offers, I don't have sex with anyone, either at the bars or going home with them. I need to add, it is so tempting to do so, but I stop short of acting on the offers. My SO is the same as it is a mutual agreement. Now we have talked about it many times and have come to the point where IF the man or men we meet are brutally hot and we just can't say no, the other will understand and allow such sexual liaisons to occur. And occur they have, but not in any great numbers. Now, here is the part I hate and am attempting to come to terms with. In speaking with all these hotties, I get all kinds of compliments about my appearance, my voice and even the way I carry myself. While they send my ego through the roof, and I feel awesome in receiving the 'woofs', I feel guilty about receiving them. I can't put my finger on it, but after much thought and pages of writing in my daily journal, I am thinking that maybe because of my POZ status I feel guilty about receiving their admiration without screaming at them "I AM POSITIVE, YOU FOOL!!!" I just read what I wrote and it seems like I am one narcissistic asshole! I really am not that kind of guy....if anything, my self esteem is quite low, again because of my being positive.I wonder, if just once, when an attractive man starts verbally pouring out his admiration of my body and my face to me that I shout out to him "But I am HIV positive and am barely able to stand around cruising and being cruised!!" I am thinking that in doing so, this awful guilty feeling I have will go away. Again, I love to receive all the attention and it feels so good to get all these looks and to be desired by the hot men, but I leave the bars or even just the streets and go back to our hotel feeling guilty of not being honest with them by not telling them about my status.But then, on the other hand, I am not sending out signals that I want to have sex with them and when that subject or offer comes up, I am quick to discourage it. Like I said above, although it is tempting as hell to have a 24 year old, hotter than hell man have me pinned on the ground ravaging me like there is no tomorrow or the reverse. Him allowing me to do unspeakable acts to his flawless body....I don't act on those offers and if I don't end the conversation right there, I will just change the subject to other topics. Eventually those offers go away and we end up having a good conversation until they find another target. Then the next one comes up to attempt to get me to accept his offers, and i go through the same scenario.So, after all that explaining my situation...is there any advice that you may be able to offer for me to not have these guilty thoughts after speaking with these hot young men who are young enough to be my children? This whole idea of rejecting these hotties is mind blowing enough for me. But now to deal with these feelings that I am hiding "my secret" from them and the guilt it causes me is hard to deal with!!I do have to say, and this is an honest feeling, I feel so bad for those of you who are single and are actively looking for a partner and the fact that you have to go through all of this crap of revealing yourselves. I have a dedicated man that I will spend the rest of my life with and yet I (and he) still enjoy the bar scene and this attention....but where the fuck do these bad feelings come from and how do I deal with them?I haven't spoken to my SO about these feelings as he gets a huge kick out of being with a "hot guy" and the attention that we get as a couple. He is a very attractive man as well, but keeps telling me if he weren't with me, no one would even notice him.Please don't think I am all about myself and think I am just a fool hung up on himself...to me this is a real problem and I would like to know how you feel about this subject. I know there is another poster here who has a huge self image problem and also a problem with getting to meet other people. I have read the negative comments to him and once even responded to his thread in a honest manner and just don't want everyone here to think that I am experiencing the same type of problem he is having.HELP!!!!!!!!!!

Based on the title of "The one thing I hate about HIV the most.." I wish for me it was how to deal with being hit on so much by young hotties because I am such a hottie myself, instead of struggling to make ends meet because of the costs or my copay for meds or feeling tired all the time or dealing with the occasional explosive shits. This just reeks of something I am not sure what.

Woods

edited to add after some thinking: I know we all have our issues to deal with and self-esteem is a major one for me. But the entire post just rubbed me the wrong way. The boastful way of talking about yourself and then the many hotties that approach you, to me doesn't seem like someone who has a problem with self-esteem. Just because someone is positive doesn't mean that they aren't attractive or can't be seen by others as attractive. My advice is to be happy with your situation.

« Last Edit: October 04, 2007, 03:56:11 PM by woodshere »

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"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it." Nelson Mandela

Normally I don't do the Dr. Phil thing but you asked. I would say the problem is you perceive yourself as damaged goods. You love the attention but part of you doesn't feel you are worthy of it because you are keeping a secret. You're afraid that if people knew you were positive they wouldn't want you anymore. Deep down you think you're not good enough. This perceived flaw feeds your hunger for attention and reassurance that you are still desirable.

I don't think you have completely come to grips with your HIV status. The good thing is you have a partner who knows who you are and still loves you and finds you attractive. If he can love the real you why wouldn't other people?

This one is easy. The guilt stems from your own self, and is the result of your hiding. Speak up man, and let it out, and magically the guilt will leave. The resultant reactions will also be very entertaining, and also send you over the edge.

That being said, I too find that as a fairly good looking young man, I never thought of the reactions of others like you do. I simply don't understand the power of your ego, that you must parade yourself seeking compliments about your physical appearance, and doing so just for the rush of the compliment. I am too busy now dealing with the shits and vomitting every morning to be worried about how I will look. After all, when we are in the coffin, looks fade fairly quickly.

Seek out the knowledge of your Native American Roots, and I think you will find the answer.

Love,

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The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,and 362 to heterosexuals.This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals, It's just that they need more supervision.Lynn Lavne

I wonder, if just once, when an attractive man starts verbally pouring out his admiration of my body and my face to me that I shout out to him "But I am HIV positive and am barely able to stand around cruising and being cruised!!" I am thinking that in doing so, this awful guilty feeling I have will go away. Again, I love to receive all the attention and it feels so good to get all these looks and to be desired by the hot men, but I leave the bars or even just the streets and go back to our hotel feeling guilty of not being honest with them by not telling them about my status.

First I need to say that being from NYC and admitting that I have screamed out that I was positive to someone I can assure you that it would have been more likely than not that you would have had to deal with the guilt of them then making a sexual advance.

I don't say this lightly. Yes I have had more than my share of rejection in NYC and some of it was even HIV related, but many of those hotties admiring you just might have been poz themselves.

However - on to your point, I think the others already have nailed it. Particularly this:

Normally I don't do the Dr. Phil thing but you asked. I would say the problem is you perceive yourself as damaged goods. You love the attention but part of you doesn't feel you are worthy of it because you are keeping a secret. You're afraid that if people knew you were positive they wouldn't want you anymore. Deep down you think you're not good enough. This perceived flaw feeds your hunger for attention and reassurance that you are still desirable.

I think it is something that you need to deal with and face as I would guess it is going to get worse as you grow older because the what ifs will only grow stronger in absence of a counter rationale/outlook.

With your past history of family alienation (which is similar to mine) the first thing that came to mind while reading your post was that maybe you have a strong need for validation from others. I have nothing to offer about the feeling guilty other than to say sometimes it serves a purpose and sometimes it’s just needless baggage.

This thread is rather odd to me. Buca states he doesn't go out to tease guys and jerk on their chains, but then proceeds to describe behavior on his part (and his partner's) that is the very definition of teasing guys and jerking on their chains.

First, thank you for taking the time to read and give me an honest look at myself. It is what I am seeking, the truth about where this guilt and self doubt comes from.I will address individually each who responded as I feel maybe we both can gain a bit of knowledge in doing so.Woods........ I too am faced daily after 16 years of things you are faced with too. The aches and pains make me forget anything and everything in my life and focus on how to make it through the day. Fortunately for me, I am in a good situation to help make me more comfortable and for that I am thankful. I wish we all could be as lucky. I am sorry it rubbed you the wrong way, but I spoke truthfully about what I am feeling and didn't mean for it to come out as boasting. I am happy with my situation and don't know where I would be or how I could survive without that which I am blessed to have in my life.GSOGYMRAT.....your response made the most sense to me. I do view myself as damaged goods and within the first 5 minutes of meeting my partner, told him that. As much as you hated being Dr Phil, what you wrote made sense to me and is the truth...something that I do need to come to grips with. Thank You.......Allpath.....as sick as it may sound, I don't feel the need to 'help society'...the education is out there and as much as I would want all to understand what you say, I can't do that.Moffie...you too say what is true, I have hidden and continue to hide. I do however, when asked, tell the truth about myself and it flows out easily. I don't however, feel a need to "parade myself or seek attention"...although it feels great to receive it, it is not something I hold in the back of my mind when we go out anywhere, it just happens. I am not, as I said, looking for anyone or anyone's approval. It is just that when it does happen, I feel guilty for looking as I do and giving those men who approach me the slightest hint that they might 'have me'...i am not for the having!!! I too deal with alot daily and then the appearance part of it doesnt mean one thing. It is funny that you brought up my background as it does provide me with a good dose of what I seek, self approval and acceptance.Iggy....I, as many times before agreewith what you contributed. It occured on our last visit to NYC that after a hottie approached me and we spoke for some time, as nasty, rude man came up after he left and said "you know, too bad ________ is positive cause I'd love to fuck his brains out" and then attempted a conversation...from which I quickly walked away.OOPS almost left a couple out..DanielMark.....yes, I get that feeling alot, that I need validation from others, but isn't this a rather common thing in the gay community, especially in a bar setting? Isnt it all a big competition? Still, I find truth to what you have posted, TYPhilly......you can speak directly to me rather than me as a third person, in doing so, i get the feeling you are judging me and thats not what i am seeking, i am seeking advice. It is true, I (or we) dont go out to tease or jerk others around. We are out having a good time and this happens. I dont have the need for them to seek me out as a sexual partner....the appreciation is nice, but nothing but conversation is wanted.

Again, thanks guys for your comments...somewhere there is the answer I am seeking....

I too am faced daily after 16 years of things you are faced with too. The aches and pains make me forget anything and everything in my life and focus on how to make it through the day. Fortunately for me, I am in a good situation to help make me more comfortable and for that I am thankful. I wish we all could be as lucky. I am sorry it rubbed you the wrong way, but I spoke truthfully about what I am feeling and didn't mean for it to come out as boasting. I am happy with my situation and don't know where I would be or how I could survive without that which I am blessed to have in my life.

And yet even though you face the aches and pains the one thing you hate about being positive is guilt because you are having to turn down all the offers you get from the hotties. And you say you aren't boasting, but refer to 7 trips just this year to NYC, refer to how hot you, your SO or those that hit on you are, as well tell us how you get numerous offers. That screams of boasting. If this were causing you great concern, why not ask the question straightforward without all the hot details. Which brings me to this, what is it you really hate about HIV+. Because if this is the case:

.....In all of our trips to the city, although I receive many offers, I don't have sex with anyone, either at the bars or going home with them. I need to add, it is so tempting to do so, but I stop short of acting on the offers. My SO is the same as it is a mutual agreement. Now we have talked about it many times and have come to the point where IF the man or men we meet are brutally hot and we just can't say no, the other will understand and allow such sexual liaisons to occur. And occur they have, but not in any great numbers. ........

Simply find other avenues to enjoy in NYC such as plays, concerts and the like. I bet the offers might be cut in half some if you stayed together and looked like a couple in the bar. Then you wouldn't have to deal with so much guilt.

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"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it." Nelson Mandela

woods....it seems you read only what you want and take away things which seem to hit a soft spot in you.I dont feel guilt in turning down any sexual advances from hotties, but rather feel strange (maybe guilt was the wrong word to use to start) that they look at me with admiration because of my physical presence. Once we have a conversation and the sexual part of it is dismissed, we have a good conversation and i have even made 'friends' with a few of these 'hotties'. Those who look to me for sex exclusively are discouraged and the encounter goes no further. I miiss nothing in this event as that is not why i am there.I will admit to some flirting while at the bar...we are in an open relationship and we are both happy with that arrangement. because of this open arrangement and knowing it is permitted takes away the part of it that gives some couples that "thrill" of cheating. For us, knowing it is permitted lessens the chance of encounters actually taking place.When it does happen, which is seldom, we discuss it openly and there are no secrets.You bring up our 7 trips without even knowing what the nature of these trips were for. I stated in my original post that the reason for this one was to meet people who are members of a travel organization that i belong to. The meet up was for activities lasting the entire weekend, some of which i cancelled because of fatigue. The reasons for the other trips (as if I even need to explain them to you) were for my partners business related ventures. The tourist part and visits to bars were secondary reasons.My reason for telling you my of my physical attributes wasn't boasting at all, but were relevent in telling my story and the source of my feelings. It was you who chose to bring out these parts of the story and focus on them, maybe because of some hidden anomosity?What i hate about being HIV, or one reason, is the feelings I get when others look at me and I hold inside the thoughts that maybe, just maybe, if i decided to have sex with them, I just might infect them. In doing so, I risk that chance of taking away not only their looks but their health. Wouldnt you feel guilty for that?your last statement to me again is based on something that you know nothing of.....we have plenty of interests and activities and dont rely exclusively on bar hopping for our entertainment while in NYC.You know, I came on to ask a serious question, one which was answered by those who put any types of judgements aside and gave me their honest opinions.Since you cannot seem to offer constructive comments, only judgements, please scroll on by as I dont need your judgemental accusations.

1) you're a handsome 48yo man and you wonder why 24yo hotties want to have sex with you.2) you are not happy because you are unable to disclose your status and so you don't have sex with those hotties.

1) the rules of attractions are different for everyone, and many 24yo hotties prefer the body and mind of a mature man than other people their age. 2) many 24yo hotties are intelligent and well versed on transmission. Many 24yo hotties are also hiv positive. Disclosure is difficult (see my posts few months ago ) but it is possible to work on it and finally feel confident about it. I feel much more attractive when I disclose to a 24yo hottie who ends up in my bed and have hot protected (or not if he's positive) sex compared to keeping the "i'm dirty, i'm nothing, they will reject me" feeling and not going forward.

Of course I've seen many disappear after I disclosed, but I've had many rewards that surpass the rejections.

Now not to toot my own horn, but even after being poz for 16 years and being 48 yo, I receive a great deal of attention from men, and even some women in mixed settings. I have always believed in taking care of my self, both health wise with good HIV doctors and in the physical appearance sense as well, and it shows. I am damned proud of my appearance, but not to the point where I am unapproachable. I talk to everyone who is interested in speaking with me and am not a self absorbed bar fly who goes out to tease or belittle anyone. I believe in order to be healthy inside your outside physical being has to be the best you can make it, and in my case, I work hard to look and feel as I do. Of course, with the physical well being we strive for, our mental aspect is an important, if not the most important, side of who we are as well. ... Now, here is the part I hate and am attempting to come to terms with. In speaking with all these hotties, I get all kinds of compliments about my appearance, my voice and even the way I carry myself. While they send my ego through the roof, and I feel awesome in receiving the 'woofs', I feel guilty about receiving them. I can't put my finger on it, but after much thought and pages of writing in my daily journal, I am thinking that maybe because of my POZ status I feel guilty about receiving their admiration without screaming at them "I AM POSITIVE, YOU FOOL!!!"

I think a lot of people here with HIV, including myself, wish that this issue was the one thing they hated most about being HIV+. But many people here have to worry about health issues, financial concerns, etc. Be glad you don't have those issues, 'cause I think they would quickly eclipse this concern you are having.

I'm not sure why you feel guilty about not telling those providing you with this kind of adulation that you're HIV+. It's none of their business, since you are not going home and sleeping with them. So I don't understand why you feel worried or guilty that you could infect them. You may be feeling "guilty", or like "damaged goods" because you are HIV+, and perhaps compensating by seeking out lots of attention from others. Or it could be something else completely. However, if it is due to your HIV status, seeking attention does not cure guilt. Being more open about your status (rather than hiding it) could bring you some relief.

If I were getting all these offers and compliments, I wouldn't feel one iota of guilt.

Regards,

Henry

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"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things: One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell. The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love." - Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

LOL@JKinatl2....NO DOUBT. I hate taking pills..I hate how much it costs me..I hate getting blood work done every 3 months..I hate the disapproving looks some give when they find out..I hate how impossible it can be sometimes when looking to date..I hate that my body is paying the price for having this damn virus..oh yeah..and the possibility of an early death down the line.

Joe

PS. Oh and I just hate when on that rare occasion in the right lighting someone says woof to me..LOL

What i hate about being HIV, or one reason, is the feelings I get when others look at me and I hold inside the thoughts that maybe, just maybe, if i decided to have sex with them, I just might infect them. In doing so, I risk that chance of taking away not only their looks but their health. Wouldnt you feel guilty for that?

Thank you. Finally I get it. The other was just superficial bullshit. And yes I would be concerned about infecting someone for one reason and one reason only, it is an incurable disease. Basing anything solely on looks is well, just plain shallow.

Since you cannot seem to offer constructive comments, only judgements, please scroll on by as I dont need your judgemental accusations.

Based on other threads you have posted in it seems to me that whenever someone questions you or disagrees with you, you respond by telling them to move on. Well the great thing or the unfortunate thing depending on how you look at it, is that one cannot pick and choose who responds to posts on any type of forum. Through questions and disagreements I have had with one or two people here I have learned a great deal and if not changed my mind I have at least come to a better understanding of the intent of the post. So instead of passing on your initial post I got involved in the discussion and while I may not agree with you and have a different opinion I can certainly understand your point and see where you come from.

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"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it." Nelson Mandela

Sometimes you just have to look at the bar scene in a different light. NYC is also a sea of temptation. I know it's hard cause whenever I go out -- especially w/o the bf -- it's like every guy is coming up to you -- plus the drug scene (wanna go "party") has just gotten beyond crazy in this town. Just have to be strong and look for outlets in a different ways. Things change with HIV.

Best of luck,

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"Get your medical advice from Doctors or medical professionals who you trust and know your history."

"Beware of the fortune teller doom and gloomers who seek to bring you down and are only looking for company, purpose and validation - not your best physical/mental interests."

"You know you all are saying that this is incurable. When the real thing you should be saying is it's not curable at the present time' because as we know, the great strides we've made in medicine." - Elizabeth Edwards

Appreciate the honestly and the effort that must haven taken to write. Couple of things. If you are not going to hook up with any of these men why not tell them you are positive, what would it matter? Before becoming positive, I assume, and maybe too much, that this was the type of action that you searched and enjoyed even when parterned. I am say these things because I have been there, loving the pleasure of the looks, the teasing and at one time pissing my partner off. Why, basically because my own self worth was zero, and it was like a habit, and like any habit I needed it more and more, and the duration of the "high" kept getting shorter and shorter. Sadly for some, but not for me, because it has been worth the trip, being positive has made me grow and continues to do so and in most cases positively, perhaps pun intended, but I am actually a far happier person now then ever before. Yes I love that twist of the head when I am walking and you are driving, or the wide eyed owl stare when you walk in a bar and most likely I always will, but now I also know and they may not, that there is someone of more substance, stronger and more peaceful with myself. I like, no I love me, and for good reasons. And yes I love attention too, but I enjoy it even more when I tell you that I am positive and you don't go running, but if you should I still have me. Thank you for sharing, I rarely do, but you hit something in me and felt the need to respond. I leave you with this challenge, just try once, telling one of these men that you are positive and see what happens, and most importantly what happens to you! Best

Wow I am so glad that I read your posting and discarded the others until after. Ugly, and reminds me why I don't look in this site as much as I use to or respond. I would question or challenge any of the responders to admit how or why they became infected. Maybe not as many opportunities, or to many; or perhaps to few for some and more the partner! Low self esteem, co-dependent and the list goes on. What is more important is what we have learned, what is gained and where we go from here, and hopefully more gently and honestly!

Wow I am so glad that I read your posting and discarded the others until after. Ugly, and reminds me why I don't look in this site as much as I use to or respond. I would question or challenge any of the responders to admit how or why they became infected. Maybe not as many opportunities, or to many; or perhaps to few for some and more the partner! Low self esteem, co-dependent and the list goes on. What is more important is what we have learned, what is gained and where we go from here, and hopefully more gently and honestly!

Given this post and your previous one I must say I'm glad too that you rarely post these days. What business is it of yours how people got infected?

"discarded the others until after. Ugly, and reminds me why I don't look in this site as much as I use to or respond. I would question or challenge any of the responders to admit how or why they became infected. "hopefully more gently and honestly!"

DS,

I will respond to your slam of my stature, and my person............ and I will try to do it without being banned from this site, which fortunately you don't need as much as some of us do........!!!!

I accept that my response was possibly considered "UGLY" but I doubt you would know ugly if it slapped you up side your rather large head!!!!!

I became infected by sex! Maybe when I was a bottom, or maybe when I was a top with out a condom, because I am uncut. Back in 1983, we were told that just about the only way you could be infected with AIDS, (yes I know you cannot be infected with AIDS, but the "specialists and researchers" said this) was if you were using Poppers in excess, or of course exstacy, cocaine, pot or anything not legal! We now know that was bullshit and that you can only be infected with HIV.. Surprise surprise, I listened, and then when the doctors said I was infected, they told me I had AIDS Related Complex which was seldom fatal. Cool huh? Now how do I fit into your mean and dispirited summation of ALL of the responders to this thread.

Lastly, I am very adept at using the English language, and was firm in my response, but Buca got my suggestions, and understood with out responding in the "ANGRY" mode which you found intelligent and necessary.

I trust you will stay away from this site, we don't need people that lump us into any definition, as Washington and the Church has been doing that now for over 25years.

Good riddence!

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The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,and 362 to heterosexuals.This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals, It's just that they need more supervision.Lynn Lavne

Again, thanks men for your candid responses. In reading them, I am not coming to some understanding why I feel the way I do and perhaps some good can come out of this.Please men, lets not fight over this topic! Like many others here, it was posted to help one person deal with problems we have to deal with because of our exposure to the virus. There is no need for anger or personal attacks.A few more comments to your appreciated input:

Milker, its not that I am unable to disclose my status, its just that I prefer not to bring this topic up UNLESS I am planning on engaging in sex with these men. If I am asked, I have no problem telling anything they want to know about myself and the disease. Do you go up to a person you want to meet and say "HI, I am __________and I am HIV positive, how are you?" I agree, there are many 24 yo men who are attracted to men who are older than themselves. I was once one of those men and even now at my age, find men who are older than me to be attractive...not only physically, but emotionally as well.One thing you said surprised me, you stated that if you have sex with a man who is also poz, you don't use protection. May I ask why not? To me this poses dangers to you both. When I do have sex with other HIVers, condoms are used ALWAYS!! Thank you for your comments, especially the last one, it stuck in my mind all night and i woke up thinking about it as well...Buckmark.......I addresssed the fact that others are suffering with far worse 'problems' than the one i posted about. We are all faced with issues that are difficult and for me, this poses a serious emotional situation and I dont appreciate the tone that you take when telling me I should feel grateful that I don't have to worry about other things...I said before, I am lucky for what I have and would be lost if things hadn't ended up as they have for me. yes, I am fortunate to be in my position, but in realizing that, I am not going to beat myself up for others problems that they cope with..we all have our own crosses to bear, so dont dismiss mine as not being worthy of discussion. I do nothing to "seek attention" from those who give it to me. I am just being me. I dont wear the latest must have fashions or accessories. I dont do anything to call attention to myself nor do i do anything to "ugly myself up" before going out of my house or hotel room. The me you see is the real me; unadorned and usually dressed in a black t, jeans and work boots. No tats, jewelry or wild hair. I am just me and carry myself proudly. Again, I dont go out seeking attention or admiration, it is just given and that makes me feel at both times, great and unworthy...this is the source of my worry. Yes, you are right, it is no ones business that I am positive unless i am to fuck with them and at that point, they are made aware of that fact.

jkinalt.....death doesn't worry me, it is part of life and that I have accepted. I dont throw that around as a joke as I see nothing funny in it.

NYCJoe.....I didn't ask for sarcasm, but if that makes you feel better, have at it. ty for your comments/

Philly.....many 24 yo s are motivated and make their own $$$. Should that be something that is needed by the 24 yo and the older man is aware of it and can comply to his needs, more power to them both. I am financially very comfortable and if a 24 yo friend needed it, I would have no problem sharing it if a serious need were there.

Woods.....not sure how to take your comment, but if it were made with sarcasm, its not needed. If you have something of value to contribute, I appreciate it, if not, then it will be me who scrolls on by.

Basquo.....TY and those phrases stand out for me as well and are leading me to understand myself better.

Strongguy.....yes I agree with your observations about the bar scene, but it is something I enjoy doing, NOT a requirement in my life, but a thing none the less. I take it all in, drug scene and all and through it all, do find it entertaining, if nothing else.

ds4146.....I have a number of times told men in bars (and other places) and none have run away from me. They faced it like men and i even got a "me too" a few times....and get this......I even found the man I am going to spend the rest of my life with!! He accepts me for everything that makes me....both the good and the bad! I wish everyone were as lucky to have this and I sincerly mean this as it makes every ache and pain and every illness bearable!!

Matty......I agree, what difference does it make how we all got to where we are now? As strange as it may sound, I think things happen for a reason ( I know thats a dated and unfashionable way of thinking, but it works for me, so I go with it!!

Moffie....yes I did understand what you stated and appreciate the comments. I am sorry that another's post upset you so much. I work on this daily as I belong to several forums and after years of postings, have now found a way of just letting negative comments flow away without an angry response. Don't give anyone that power over you....they just aren't worth it!!

jkinalt.....death doesn't worry me, it is part of life and that I have accepted. I dont throw that around as a joke as I see nothing funny in it.

That's cool. I have a similar attitude toward narcissism and dismissive passive-aggression.

Logged

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

dach.....not really familiar with "promise keepers" so i can't catch the shitball you are throwing my way. as far as holding the theory that I am the only person that this perception of mine affects, you obviously have reading comprehension problems as it is not entirely myself who I am concerned about.But alas, after enduring your past posts, if noticed when you see something that you cannot grasp or doesn't affect you, you have a way of throwing around $20 words to hide your ignorance, hoping it all goes away.

jkinatl.....but it seems you do have a problem with allowing others to seek help when something relating to this disease is bothering them. what may seem narcissistic and inconsequential to you is a problem to me.....so i ask, where is the real show of narcissism then?

once again, thanks to all who contributed some positive feedback to help me understand why this bothers me and aiding me in finding some sort of way of dealing with it. through your comments, i have come to realize a few things about myself and my self image and shortcomings.To those who had nothing but negative things to say about this thread, I am only imagining that at one time in your past, you were either what you considered attractive and now that this ugly disease has stripped you of what you used to identify yourselves as, you now have a strong animosity towards those who still possess a strong and desirable appearance. Or in my other theory, you never were blessed with such physical assets and you spent your lives miserable and jealous of those who were and still are. It's all good in the end, although beauty does fade with age, and of course with this disease, at least I was one of the fortunate few who knew what it was like to hold that beauty and to be desired and admired. Just to be one step ahead of those who are loading their slingshots, my physical beauty is only one small part of who I am. Through a life time of self examination and struggle, I was fortunate to discover and share with others a more important and valuable trait in myself, the ability to accept others as they are and not as people who were placed here to be targets of vile and hatred, as a few here seem to think. Dismiss me as you like, but do so with that acknowledgement......then the throwing of stones will be so much more enjoyable to you....HEHE, this has been fun!!!PEACE.............

once again, thanks to all who contributed some positive feedback to help me understand why this bothers me and aiding me in finding some sort of way of dealing with it. through your comments, i have come to realize a few things about myself and my self image and shortcomings.To those who had nothing but negative things to say about this thread, I am only imagining that at one time in your past, you were either what you considered attractive and now that this ugly disease has stripped you of what you used to identify yourselves as, you now have a strong animosity towards those who still possess a strong and desirable appearance. Or in my other theory, you never were blessed with such physical assets and you spent your lives miserable and jealous of those who were and still are. It's all good in the end, although beauty does fade with age, and of course with this disease, at least I was one of the fortunate few who knew what it was like to hold that beauty and to be desired and admired. Just to be one step ahead of those who are loading their slingshots, my physical beauty is only one small part of who I am. Through a life time of self examination and struggle, I was fortunate to discover and share with others a more important and valuable trait in myself, the ability to accept others as they are and not as people who were placed here to be targets of vile and hatred, as a few here seem to think. Dismiss me as you like, but do so with that acknowledgement......then the throwing of stones will be so much more enjoyable to you....HEHE, this has been fun!!!PEACE.............

Whoa. I don't know what to say. Physical beauty is definitely in the eye of the beholder. If you are ugly on the inside (i.e full of arrogance) what does it matter how you look on the outside? This isn't some generic message board. Their are people on here fighting for their lives (Christine and others), fighting to stay on meds(because sometimes they are either too expensive or have their health ins dropped) and here you are talking about your looks and how great they are? Meanwhile there are some who are fighting to stay healthy whose bodies have been ravaged by the very meds keeping them alive.

You know its okay when people disagree with you. It doesn't mean that they are ugly. I have people disagree with me all the time but I don't think it has anything to do with their looks. Maybe you are trying to get a rise out of people but with all that people are going through the fact that you are having problems with your own "hotness" is, I'm sorry..laughable. I wish you nothing but good things but you need to look at what you have written here and THINK about how that comes across to others..Joe

well, nycjoe, maybe what i posted was wrong, but to post my feelings seriously about this subject and then to have shit thrown at me as it was is defeating me. I dont know how else to put it to avoid those who dont care for me for past posts still holding that grudge and not getting what I am trying to say.I have received a post from a man who understands exactly what I am saying and he didnt have to use put downs and smart ass comments to get that across to me. he spoke candidly to me about what i said and even at one point told me i posted some bs, but it was done in a manner that i could accept.I feel if you dont have "friends" here to listen to you, even when you talk shit, what other methods of defense do you have left? In posting what I did, I feel, unfortunately, that I had to come down to their level to get across to them.And I have to ask you, what the hell do you think i am doing...sailing along on a bed of fearlessness? we are all fighting in some way for our lives...for you and others to belittle me and my thoughts and say someones fight is more important is beyond ridiculous.this is a strange board and it reminds me so much of a huge gay clique, if at first you dont kiss ass and get accepted then no matter what you say is never going to be good enough and in the process, those who have that gang mentality will drive you and your thoughts into the ground.Now tell me im wrong with my perception of this board....What is supposed to be a place where all views are presented, no matter how insignificant, and constructive information is exchanged has turned into a pool of hatred and judgement......I dont know what else to say.................but im sure someone will come along, pull their pants down and proceed to take yet another shit on my thoughts.....

.To those who had nothing but negative things to say about this thread, I am only imagining that at one time in your past, you were either what you considered attractive and now that this ugly disease has stripped you of what you used to identify yourselves as, you now have a strong animosity towards those who still possess a strong and desirable appearance. Or in my other theory, you never were blessed with such physical assets and you spent your lives miserable and jealous of those who were and still are. It's all good in the end, although beauty does fade with age, and of course with this disease, at least I was one of the fortunate few who knew what it was like to hold that beauty and to be desired and admired. Just to be one step ahead of those who are loading their slingshots, my physical beauty is only one small part of who I am. Through a life time of self examination and struggle, I was fortunate to discover and share with others a more important and valuable trait in myself, the ability to accept others as they are and not as people who were placed here to be targets of vile and hatred, as a few here seem to think.

This is one of the most offensive posts I have seen on the forums. I see no where in this thread where you have been the target of hatred, questions yes and even some looks of disbelief, but not hatred. And what you said above is way out of bounds!!

Logged

"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it." Nelson Mandela

To those who had nothing but negative things to say about this thread, I am only imagining that at one time in your past, you were either what you considered attractive and now that this ugly disease has stripped you of what you used to identify yourselves as, you now have a strong animosity towards those who still possess a strong and desirable appearance. Or in my other theory, you never were blessed with such physical assets and you spent your lives miserable and jealous of those who were and still are.

So that's what all this has been. Ranting about how beautiful you are at 48 years old, and people that have been infected with HIV for some time can't expect to understand what your beauty exhilarates since we have been ravaged by AIDS and can only be jealous of your superiority.

I'm sorry but I never had the opportunity to talk to a God like you, and I am not sure I am able to reach your level ever, so I will end the discussion. Good bye, beauty.

I still dont get it as much as you dont get me.....how can you only take this away from the discussion?Woods, you would have to go back to threads that I posted on previously, and indeed on this one, to see how I have been the target of some rather hateful remarks.to refresh your memory, the first post I made was refuted by mouse and bucko, both of who were warned to cool it and were threatened with a time out. to post something to someone that warranted a time out should tell you something!!Come on guys, i know you arent that dense......hateful and bitchy, but not dense...........

I have received a post from a man who understands exactly what I am saying and he didn't have to use put downs and smart ass comments to get that across to me. he spoke candidly to me about what i said and even at one point told me i posted some BS, but it was done in a manner that i could accept.I feel if you dont have "friends" here to listen to you, even when you talk shit, what other methods of defense do you have left? In posting what I did, I feel, unfortunately, that I had to come down to their level to get across to them.I dont know what else to say.................but im sure someone will come along, pull their pants down and proceed to take yet another shit on my thoughts.....

YIKES!!!...Way too late...24 little hours. We are hardly even on the topic, and the shit has flown everywhere!

I am the guy who PM'd Buca45 Yesterday. I wasn't easy on him, just as he describes above. I knew there was sincerity beneath the seeming-obsession with appearance. His style was a bit "full of himself", by his own description. I am not going to take sides where sides don't need to be taken (though I do not shy away from conflict)! In a discussion there ought to be a lot more than two views and two contributions. I shared more than I want to in public in my PM. It made our private discussion more meaningful. Buca wrote me back a very fine, thoughtful response, not the least bit defensive. We have a good understanding today. In his sole PM to me, he mentioned that he was going out or taking a walk or something, and that this discussion had gotten nasty. Yes, it did. FRESH AIR. Good idea.

The problem with sarcasm or name-calling, is it always poisons the well, even when spot-on, or hilariously funny. So, everyone, please refrain from publically questioning other people's motives (Yep. Buca is guilty too!), and if I ever ignore my own advice, please call me on it! I don't say everything I think or I'd have an army of enemies. Or write to a group exactly what I would write to just one. Civilty isn't namby-pamby. It works.

The Problem with "my HIV is worse than yours" is it alienates most everyone else. It reminds me of the folks who thought it was hilarious that rich peoples' homes burned down in Malibu California. Not my lifestyle, but definitely not funny to lose one's home to a fire. Some guy has Lipo after 14 years and it bugs him. His friend died 12 years earlier. I am not interested in denigrating the worries of the lucky survivor. If you can't feel it, don't post anything.[/i]I am going to forget a lot of what some of you have just written (including witty invective) so I can continue looking forward to your future contributions.

Enough is enough..most of you know that resorting to name calling and anger doesn't help...you have had your say so lets leave it alone now...don't make me come looking for you..

Quote

the first post I made was refuted by mouse and bucko, both of who were warned to cool it and were threatened with a time out. to post something to someone that warranted a time out should tell you something!!

BUCA...Mouse and Bucko have had nothing to do with this thread so bringing their name into it is pointless....what they had to say in your another thread had been dealt with...don't bring up past threads to make your point, it never works.

Buca, you just recently PMed me to tell me that you don't have any hard-feelings about anything that happened in the past and that you'd like to get along, but now you've posted about me and Bucko in this thread in a very I-am-better-than-they-are sort of way and I have to say it's kind of irritating. You make it sound as though what happened in that thread is some sort of validation for yourself in this thread or that you were totally right in the way you acted, and we were totally wrong, which comes across as pretty concieted and so far from what actually happened it's pretty laughable. All I really want to say is that it was uncalled for and I'm disappointed. If you actually wanted to get along with me, or with anyone here, you wouldn't bring the past up in a manner that makes it seem as though you were completely innocent on a occasion that you were not. That's pretty much it.

Buca, don't get into any further "stuff" here with Mouse. He's responded now simply because his name was introduced here. As Jan has pointed out this was totally gratuitous on your part. So any further "exchange" about that needs to stop right now.

Members have responded in various ways to your entries. Things have been just edging in and out around slipping into bric-a-bats.

To all including Buca I am saying step away and resist flaming this thread up any further.

Buca, to me the real question here to ask is of yourself: what's preventing you from knowing what you need to do to resolve this "problem" which you've presented at such considerable length.

I have had a bit of time to think and rethink this whole thread and my posting to ask for help in dealing what some of you think is an issue that merits no responses or opinions at all. What is hard to believe is that only a few, understand what I am trying to convey. I have received some good comments that have allowed me to look deeper within myself to understand the feelings that I am having. But unfortunately, more posters seem to find enjoyment in laughing and making light of what I do consider a problem.Is this a life threatening problem? No...... Will I suffer irreparable consequences if I don't come to grips with these emotions? Probably not.What does bother me though is that in reading the hundreds of different threads here that deal with every facet of this disease, big or small, life threatening or not, all of them are treated with respect and many post their thoughts and feelings and attempt to provide some kind of relief to those who ask for assistance with their problems. As much as many of you might think this is a trivial problem and one that doesn't even register on any type of importance level, to me this IS a concern which leads me to question why I am having the negative feelings I have towards myself and the deeper problem that i am attempting to avoid if I don't come to grips with what I am feeling. I am merely attempting to relate thoughts that are causing me to view myself in a negative way and therefore, are causing me some concern.I want to address each post as I had done throughout this thread, so please bear with me.

Anniebc.....Thank you for the first part of your post, I realize it is your job to stop any threads that turn ugly before any damage is done and I appreciate that part of it. The part after the quote and perhaps the use of the quote itself, IMO should have been conveyed to me in a pm. I can take criticism and even being reprimanded for not "following the rules", but again, IMO, it is more effective when this is done one on one. The final word, however, rests with you as a moderator and any way you chose to deal with such is entirely your choice and in the end, even though I might find fault with this approach, it is your call and I will respect it. Thank you for pointing out the fact that I was wrong to bring out something that happened in other threads and in the past. I understand it was not the correct way to deal with the whipping I was taking.What I did, in looking back may have been wrong. However, I was beginning to feel as though I was being backed into a corner and being ganged up on. The point I was trying to make by doing this is that there is a history of this type of "gang banging" in posts I have made before. I was only trying to show that this was done before and this was being done on this thread.

Mouse, your perception of my pm wasn't what I was attempting to convey to you. I said that I was sorry that we had gotten off to a bad start and wished you nothing but the best. I am not attempting to say I was totally innocent in that situation. Like I have said before, what I had posted in that previous thread was an opinion that I had formed based on MY experiences and nothing more. You were the one who jumped on me and attempted to degrade me for my opinions in a rather rude and uncalled for way. When you did this, I attempted again, to explain to you why I felt the way I did and how I came to my conclusions. Then again, you attacked me, calling me a dinosaur and more. At this time, because you are a "protected" member of this forum because of your rather young age, your supporters came out in force and proceeded to attack me where you left off. These supporters haven't forgot that thread and now at every post I make, they make an appearance, regardless of the topic and attempt to 'take me down" with their words.Yes I did what you say I did, I wrongly used that past ugliness to make a point here and at the time I did, I thought it was the right way to show that this post is just a further example of the bashing I receive here often. It is your right to say I am conceited and my posts and thoughts are laughable.What I find laughable however, is that you are given carte blanche here to say whatever comes to your young, inexperienced mind.....many times hurting those you are addressing. Because of your young and somewhat 'fragile state', the moderators have, in attempting to protect you, threatened anyone who states any opposing opinions to you with expulsion for this forum. IMHO, if you are adult enough to have sex, contract HIV and now are dealing with your transgender issues (which I have praised you for for dealing with at such an age) then you should be adult enough to have to face any statements which come because of you posting your problems and the battles you face. These are tough adult issues that you face now and will face many times in the future. The fact that is brought up several times, that you are oh so young is getting old. I read most, if not all your posts. In some, I have a great deal of admiration and respect for you.Then at other times, your abrasive and demeaning way of dealing with others postings and thoughts, should they not 100% agree with you, is a huge turn off and shows your lack of maturity. To be honest, you shouldn't be granted immunity from the results of your posts and those who do post their opinions of what you face and how you deal with them shouldn't be reprimanded as they have been threatened with. I have learned that the only way you grow and build character is to face those whose opinions and thoughts are different than yours. Again, IMHO, the moderators and those who support you unconditionally because of your young age and immaturity are doing you such a great disservice, as when you enter the world as an adult, at times you will be faced with a great amount of negative things which you will not be able to handle as these moderators and your supporters/friends/aunts or whatever they refer to themselves as, will not be there to protect your tender being. That said, I wish you no bad thoughts, but instead, wish you nothing but strength. Strength that you will need to deal with all that life is going to be throwing your way. You will see the real world is nothing like it is on this forum where you can hide behind not only a screen, but your many friends and supporters. Best of luck to you and as much as you don't want to accept my sincere words and wishes (especially what i wrote in the pm and on your 'coming out thread'), they are real and they are true.

Jeffrey, I am not on any sort of ego trip whatsoever, but rather just like you and everyone else here, I am only a human.... a human with flaws, but a human nonetheless......

Andy, I have no desire to get into any more "stuff" with Mouse or any of his supporters. I appreciate that he did make an appearance to contribute his thoughts about me....conceited, laughable, irritating..... but as I have said above, IMO, by protecting him from the rude, cruel world in this forum, you are only doing him a huge disservice as he will encounter much worse when he becomes an adult in the real world...but enough said on that topic. I just hope that when or if I post thoughts in the future, you will grant me the same sort of protection from the bullies that you extend to him.Thank you for also throwing your two cents in and trivializing my post as others have. For someone in your position, I would think that you would rise above that idea that has been so clearly pointed out by other members of this community....that my "problem" isn't worthy of any conversation. The only reason I have presented this topic that is bothering me "in such considerable length", is that I DO feel it is a problem, if only for me at this time. The thing that is unbelivable to me is that no matter how I put it, most of you don't get it and instead chose to blow it off as problem not worthy of serious reflection.Your post is the saddest to read of everyones as you should know that anything posted here is indeed bothering one person who is suffering in the many veins of this disease and deserves serious and thoughtful attention.But again, because of the members who DO truly understood what I had communicated and responded to me (some with unsugar coated responses), I have a better understanding of my trivial and nonsensical problem.Again, Thank You to those who did offer real advice and opinions. At times it was hard to read and comprehend, it did aid me to learn more about myself and I am more at peace with something that was causing me some worry.

Buca has been given a 7 day Time-Out, and this thread has been locked. The reason for the TO was his last posting which flagrantly ignored Andy's warning to him, saying "any further 'exchange' about that needs to stop right now," in reference to his flamewar with Mouse. Instead of heeding the warning, he couldn't resist having the final word -- in fact 700+ words -- directed at Mouse.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again... When our moderators issue a warning to disengage from a flamewar (our definition) or conversation (possibly your definition) with another member, then you must immediately stop that particular conversation with that person, no questions asked. If you object to the warning, you should PM the moderator who issued it (feel free to PM all the mods if you want). You should not, under any circumstance, question the moderator's warning publically. I will not allow our moderators to get tangled up in what amounts to a highjacking of a thread. And it would open the floodgates, encouraging other forum members to question our authority.

In addition, the old canard of us playing favorites has become a tiring refrain by those that get warned or TO'd. We have warned, TO'd, and even banned people who have been here for years, and who we have grown to know and love. We have TO'd and banned some of our bloggers (and they are still on our blogging team). We don't play favorites, period.

Finally, in defense of Buca, his criticism of those who felt his issues were too trivial for these forums was, I think, legitimate. These forums are not here only for the really serious shit we all go through. If you find someone posting about something that you think is trivial, then you have a very easy option -- click on to the next thread. I'm getting really sick of those who think these forums can only be about the worst shit we all go through.