quote:I still don't think enough people whip their dogs into shape when they are younger. Usually, the people that bitch about me doing it are the ones whose dogs are always on the sofa, eating food off of the table, and shitting in the house.

quote:I still don't think enough people whip their dogs into shape when they are younger. Usually, the people that bitch about me doing it are the ones whose dogs are always on the sofa, eating food off of the table, and shitting in the house

Man I wish someone other than me would explain this to my wife. We got a Ridgeback in November. She was about 2 I think when we got her. Great dog btw, well behaved, and she's an inside/outside dog. Part of the reason she's well behaved is 'cause of the discipline I've meated out from time to time though. My wife thinks you can just tell her NO. frick, she's a dog. She speaks dog. She does not speak wife.

quote:I still don't think enough people whip their dogs into shape when they are younger. I did it, and had a buddy tell me the other week,"Damn, I used to hate on you for whipping your dog when he was little, but that is the most well behaved dog I have ever seen". Only had to get after him once in the past 2 years. Usually, the people that bitch about me doing it are the ones whose dogs are always on the sofa, eating food off of the table, and shitting in the house.

I call bull shite. If you have to use aggression to train your dog, you need to learn better training techniques and take some time to learn the instinctive behaviors of the animal you are training. I've trained many dogs at all ages from new born up to about 8 years old (well past the best training period) and never once have I had to hit or whip a dog or use a choke collar even. I fostered 10 lab mix puppies from birth to adoption at 8 weeks and had them trained to sit and stay (mostly, didn't have but a week or so to work on the "stay" command with them) by the time they were adopted out. Still have the mother, a border collie/lab mix that was neglected and beaten regularly before she found us. She is now a well trained family pet that I rarely even have to raise my voice too. I always find that people who use physical aggression to train an animal lack the persistence and patients to do it properly. Hell, I even have my cats trained to a few basic commands.

I whip my kid and my dog when they are out of line and I wouldnt call it any of these terms. There is nothing aggressive about it and Im not angry when I do it, just simple discipline they can understand. If my kid can get it, my dog is okay getting it too.

This is what makes them different. A dog's natural instinct is to match aggression with aggression. Physical contact in a corrective manner is a form of aggression to an animal whether that how you intend it not (aggression does not equal abuse). For most children, this is not the case. An animal doesn't need to be "broken" (speaking mentally of course) to be trained. Do some dogs need it? Possibly but in my experience they respond much better to positive reinforcement as opposed to negative reinforcement. But implying that whipping an animal should be the more common standard is incorrect imho.

quote:I call bull shite. If you have to use aggression to train your dog, you need to learn better training techniques and take some time to learn the instinctive behaviors of the animal you are training.

quote:If you have to use aggression to train your dog, you need to learn better training techniques

It's a dog. They learned that way in the wild. The alpha male wouldn't baby another dog into acting right. He'd beat that ass. I don't beat a dog for the sake of beating him, but he is damn sure going to learn who's the boss.

quote: I always find that people who use physical aggression to train an animal lack the persistence and patients to do it properly

You must be that guy who puts his kids in "timeout." Spare the rod, spoil the child... and the dog.

quote: An animal doesn't need to be "broken" (speaking mentally of course) to be trained

Have you ever tried to train a horse with love and tenderness? You will get your head smashed in quick, fast, and in a hurry. Most animals must be "broken" in order to become useful. Examples - dogs, horses, mules, bulls (in the days when they were used to cultivate land). Breaking an animal isn't about breaking its spirit, but it is about established dominance over that creature.

I don't believe in "beating" a dog, but a "swat" along with a stern voice will convey the message. However, if you're still having to physically correct a dog when it is grown, then you have failed at training.

I also don't usually believe in the use of choke collars, but we had to use one on the great dane/lab stray that showed up at our camp. He was 100lbs, starved and still a puppy. When he filled out, he didn't know his strength. Took him to obedience training and the trainer immediately told us that we needed to get one of the training collars with the metal spikes that dig into the neck. If we didn't use it, it took all the strenght of a full grown man to get him to stop if he started to run.