Thanks to the new and improved system we can arguably say that base devotion provides for 166 uses of hands

Not sure how you came to that number! The devotion pool allows for a total of 2000(max) / 120(cost) = 16 uses before being depleted. After factoring in regen (200 every 15s), the total rises to 20-22. This assumes that the devotionist isn't using any rites at all (-40 max per rite), and isn't preserving the 1,000 devotion required for Redemption to fire.

Worth noting that the beads artifact reduces costs by 33%, which may be contributing to the overall perception.

Without beads, that's still like 3-4 extra lives worth of health outside of normal sip/toadstool.

Bladesurge kicks in at 1/3 health and only gives you 1/3 health back. And yes you get an extra attack. And for things that do just straight damage that's great, but for low hooks and jabs it doesn't really speed that along since you are prepping limbs 90% of the time with three attacks in mind, suddenly getting a fourth attack for limbs can wind up breaking a limb to soon thus negating it for a speedy break.

Sure it's awesome for fresh limbs with no damage to them, but how often is that the case when Bladesurge fires? And as for the added fourth attack damage wise, it's not really that large a jump in damage when setting up limbs unless you have strength artis/strength heavy stat pack. Edit: even then it might not be a big jump.

I know people rage hard for some reason after dying to a predator, but let's be real here. Outside of a select few instances, that we are generally unable to replicate without certain people being around let alone flying solo, the class is fairly lackluster compared to most classes.

I haven't seen any sort of AM rebuttal on this issue - probably because we haven't burned through all of their lives yet and they are still too busy fighting to post

Is it a true statement in saying that when you hit redemption, the defenses that you lost while fighting whatever fight you were in do not come back without 're-activating' them? The few times I've hit redemption, I seem to die a lot -faster- than if I was just walking into a fight.

I'm not writing a rebuttal for it - I believe everyone should have an even playing field.

I haven't seen any sort of AM rebuttal on this issue - probably because we haven't burned through all of their lives yet and they are still too busy fighting to post

Is it a true statement in saying that when you hit redemption, the defenses that you lost while fighting whatever fight you were in do not come back without 're-activating' them? The few times I've hit redemption, I seem to die a lot -faster- than if I was just walking into a fight.

I'm not writing a rebuttal for it - I believe everyone should have an even playing field.

It's just like when you get starbursted - you're still the primary target when you return from redemption, so everyone is going to be hitting you. I've seen (and experienced) multiple deaths before the target has time to adapt, just because of the sheer number of people throwing out heavy damage combos. In this situation, redemption isn't outright saving you from death - but it's effectively doubling the amount of health people have to burn through before you're out of the fight. That's a major advantage compared to other factions.

I haven't seen any sort of AM rebuttal on this issue - probably because we haven't burned through all of their lives yet and they are still too busy fighting to post

Is it a true statement in saying that when you hit redemption, the defenses that you lost while fighting whatever fight you were in do not come back without 're-activating' them? The few times I've hit redemption, I seem to die a lot -faster- than if I was just walking into a fight.

I'm not writing a rebuttal for it - I believe everyone should have an even playing field.

It's just like when you get starbursted - you're still the primary target when you return from redemption, so everyone is going to be hitting you. I've seen (and experienced) multiple deaths before the target has time to adapt, just because of the sheer number of people throwing out heavy damage combos. In this situation, redemption isn't outright saving you from death - but it's effectively doubling the amount of health people have to burn through before you're out of the fight. That's a major advantage compared to other factions.

So then why not make it so when redemption is used, that person isn't able to use a Starburst at the same time? That way, just like everyone else, they have a 'get out of jail free card'?

I haven't seen any sort of AM rebuttal on this issue - probably because we haven't burned through all of their lives yet and they are still too busy fighting to post

What rebuttal? It's ridiculous and I know it is; I even posted on the beta saying that it was too good, but my post was summarily ignored. It's overpowered as hell and it will be nerfed and it deserves it, but I'm not so honorable that I'm going to stop using it or anything.

"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

I haven't seen any sort of AM rebuttal on this issue - probably because we haven't burned through all of their lives yet and they are still too busy fighting to post

What rebuttal? It's ridiculous and I know it is; I even posted on the beta saying that it was too good, but my post was summarily ignored. It's overpowered as hell and it will be nerfed and it deserves it, but I'm not so honorable that I'm going to stop using it or anything.

It's funny how often this is the case and when it is applied. "We know this is a problem, but.........."

I haven't seen any sort of AM rebuttal on this issue - probably because we haven't burned through all of their lives yet and they are still too busy fighting to post

Is it a true statement in saying that when you hit redemption, the defenses that you lost while fighting whatever fight you were in do not come back without 're-activating' them? The few times I've hit redemption, I seem to die a lot -faster- than if I was just walking into a fight.

I'm not writing a rebuttal for it - I believe everyone should have an even playing field.

It's just like when you get starbursted - you're still the primary target when you return from redemption, so everyone is going to be hitting you. I've seen (and experienced) multiple deaths before the target has time to adapt, just because of the sheer number of people throwing out heavy damage combos. In this situation, redemption isn't outright saving you from death - but it's effectively doubling the amount of health people have to burn through before you're out of the fight. That's a major advantage compared to other factions.

So then why not make it so when redemption is used, that person isn't able to use a Starburst at the same time? That way, just like everyone else, they have a 'get out of jail free card'?

This is actually the exact solution myself and others have proposed. Just need to wait for that classlead round I guess.

Reading the Wysrias' comments on Diabolist, Druid toadstool denial in the Owned thread:

What if we introduced a third sipper for Imperian, one that does what toadstool does but uses elixir balance. Call it rejuvenation - that way, a person can choose to buffer against mana kills by sacrificing pure health sips.

It feels like it would complicate things unnecessarily but want to know what people would think.

We all know smithing sucks, horribly, and that knights have to be balanced around dsl, and as someone who has been trolling with knight from the days of old metra/calo/cig and surprise demon, up to modern times, gotta say it's all kinda stale.

Delete Smithing

Delete DSL

Replace smithing with a tertiary skillset for each knight that is based off of their unique pet. Each guild afaik has pwell established RP over the years as to the importance of those falcon/kestrel/hound allies. Further build this skillset to have builds or specs utilizing weapons for different ends. This skillset might have 10 general abilities for a deathknight, for example, for things that the hound can do. Bloodscent and the like. Then maybe 5 abilities that focus on damage output, where the knight would utilize a claymore or halberd. Maybe 5 different abilities in the skillset you could utilize with a longsword that focus on salve suppression and the like to build toward a vivisect.

It's all stuff that's been mentioned before. The design flaw of the current weapon system is that only the poles are good. Everything else sucks. Look at Garryn's latest attempt to fix broad, scimitar, longswords. All he succeeded in doing was making claymores the dominant weapon by a larger margin. The only solution here is to add incentives to moving away from the outliers and that requires weapon-specific skills. This of course, requires effort. We're not fans of that around here. From a business standpoint, it's not really beneficial to redo knights because they rake in the dough and are by far one of the easiest classes in the game to play.

Also, removing smithing is a hard sell because chivalry is -so- good and necro/runelore/devotion are badass support skills. The class functions incredibly well with 2 skills and 3rd skill with anything remotely useful would make it ridiculous. Knight overhaul gets really weird really fast.

Yeah that's kinda what I proposed but as you said it's pretty much like, the go to class. I tell newbs or people returning after a break that all the time. You can get bi trans and easily find fieldplate that's really close to fullplate (mine is 78/73 iirc) and then you're set for 1v1 or teams dependent on statpack and a decent weapon.

What I wonder is, how would a weapon design overhaul like the one I proposed, or the replacement of smithing, be viable for classes like WD that utilize smithed weapons while not being a knight? It's just sad because knight has such potential and it is always given a shitty bandaid to fix perceived problems or imbalances and then we wind up with what we have... A dominant class at all tiers in all aspects that is all because of a couple of fundamental skills that you can't tweak without making or breaking the class.

I don't want "queue bal rebounding this or that" because I think that goes a little too far into "track my things for me" territory.

At that point you might as well say "DSL always razes if rebounding is up" and be done with it.

"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

I also make use of the inbuilt queues because of latency. For rebounding, I think it's better to trigger it with timers and then just make sure you're really mashing your attack, or at least make it so that after x amount of time (decided by comparing your dsl speed to rebounding's speed) your queue changes to rsl.

No, you're saying "There's never a need to track rebounding because you can enter every single DSL as "queue eqbal rebounding DSL or RSL"; nobody should ever hit rebounding ever again, with this change and so you might as well just make DSL automatically raze.

"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."