It is astounding to me how liberals can bash this person because he or she chooses not to identify with the radical Occupy protests... this is a person putting himself thru school doing the best he can for himself. He is making every right decision but because he ignores the talking points of a leftist group- you all disregard him

Truly astounding

No-one is disregarding him, we just know he's talking nonsense.

Also, if the belief that social inequality is unjust is now "radical" then I despair for our society...

There is nothing nonsensical about hard work. What we have here is ridicule of those that defy the zeitgeist- not so much about what he does but what he says, the refusal to join in the whinging. Society today is all talk and no action, and we see him lambasted for his words and his action.

You're mixing things up here. We all respect those who work hard. What we don't respect is those who proceed to attention whore and pour hatred on those who are less fortunate, as this whole movement seems to be aiming at. If you have a job, great, you're lucky. Just remember, you're a resource that they can do away with at any point they like.

Yes you are- you are a human resource. That's the way it works...they pay you and they can choose to stop paying you. I've let go many an employee for malfeasance, negligence, intoxication on the job, criminal records, etc...

maybe people don't want everything to be commodified. maybe certain things like the family have intrinsic value and should be protected by the state or nation/tribe/community. you obviously did not read my previous posts though which already explained my problem obviously had nothing to do with this person's alleged work ethic and everything to do with his apologism for a system that is literally robbing us and destroying anything of lasting value within our culture.

oh and btw i have made it clear before i don't like occupy, if it was actually directed against the criminal banks i would support it but it clearly is not. just like the tea party was/is clearly not about 'fiscal responsibility.'

I don't think it was the vacation itself that cost me the job, but I think getting sick afterwards got me in the long run. The first commandment of the workplace "Thou shall never get sick."

You need to start taking personal responsibility, for it is given that your trip would most likely lead to an illness – there were several posters on here who even predicted it. But, despite those known risks, you decided to go to Africa anyway, no matter the risks to your obligations to your employer.

It’s not like you came down with the flu after getting a flu vaccine. Your company correctly concluded you did not do your due diligence to stay healthy in order to make a good first impression and meet your obligations to your employer.

You do NOT make pleasing your employer a priority in your life. I would have fired you also. Since you have a disability (stuttering) to being with, you need to make every effort to be doing it better and cleaner than the other guy. Instead, you've lost your job in call centers three times. Been warned multiple times by posters, including me, with a history of half-chocked ventures with fly-by-night scam artists and two failed marriage engagements!

Reap-what-you-sow rules of engagement exist for your safety and for that of your team. They're not flexible, nor is the world. Obey them or your history will be written with government food stamps. Is that clear?

The Tea Party isn't rigid at all. They constantly complain about the national debt, and then they fully endorse the party that has historically run up the debt and is responsible for most of it at the moment. They complain about getting government encroaching in our lives and then support the party that wants to tell people who they can marry and how they can have sex.

Why the hell do people think cloning animals is immoral? The other things I can understand why someone might consider them immoral(even if I disagree with them), but I can't wrap my head around the thought process that says animal cloning is immoral. , we can cram chickens in uncomfortable crates and eat them, but we can't clone them?

So you have about ten times as many people who believe medical testing on animals is wrong as believe eating animals is wrong, even though a rational justification is arguably much stronger for the former practice.

A great many moral beliefs don't make logical sense. Why, for example, is it perfectly legal and even generally considered honorable to euthanize a dying pet, yet a crime and highly controversial (as shown in this poll) to do the same for human beings, even when the humans specifically request that someone help them die--something that animals, for obvious reasons, can never do?

It should be noted that many, if not most, people don't base their moral beliefs on logic because they largely rely on religion in forming them. Religion is basically the opposite of logic, one just accepts things on faith without asking if they make sense or not.

Yeah, after four years of being a non-disruptive poster on the forum, never considered a troublemaker, even someone who was liked well enough to be elected Atlasian President, Napoleon should be allowed to stay.

As someone is liberal NY Democrat, I don't know what some of the complaints about Cuomo are really about. He has done an excellent job as Governor. The Pension reform thing was no big deal, and well this isn't Wisconsin in going after teachers making $40-$50K.

Casing point my current county legislator (Republican Joe Belesi) is a retired Nassau County Cop, rakes in a six figure pension, and got a pay out of $432,000 when he retired from the force (though that was more due to a screwed up county system than state system, put in place by former county exec Republican Tom Gullotta)

Yeah, after four years of being a non-disruptive poster on the forum, never considered a troublemaker, even someone who was liked well enough to be elected Atlasian President, Napoleon should be allowed to stay.

Still doesn't change the fact that he's just the equivalent of a standard European conservative.

Someone has no clue about New York or Cuomo!

He didn't mention anything about the political spectrum in New York or Cuomo's place in it.

So what? He is wrong.

I care more about aid to homeless children than the right to smoke a joint. He's a socially liberal Chris Christie.

for a lot of people being arrested for marijuana has been a de-facto death sentence. what about all the people that have been sent to prison and subsequently got aids from being raped or were otherwise fatally assaulted by in mates? or all the people whose homes have been wrongly targeted by drug enforcement and subsequently shot by them? or people killed in the crossfire? this isn't just some issue that effects stoners, if it was i wouldn't really give a sh**t.

Yeah, after four years of being a non-disruptive poster on the forum, never considered a troublemaker, even someone who was liked well enough to be elected Atlasian President, Napoleon should be allowed to stay.

This guy really is a textbook New Democrat, isn't he? Continually sell out left-wing economic principles and get American liberals by being on the forefront on social issues. He's very impressive.

that's a very strange revisionist take on the DLC wing of the party...

Yeah, their main schtick was supporting the death penalty and being "tough on crime." Bizarre forum caricature of Cuomo is more like the Gary Hart/Jerry Brown "New Democrats." Of course I fail to see how a minor tax cut while raising rates for high-income individuals in the highest-tax state in the country makes one a "conservative."

Yeah, after four years of being a non-disruptive poster on the forum, never considered a troublemaker, even someone who was liked well enough to be elected Atlasian President, Napoleon should be allowed to stay.

I agree Simfan on the music. I wish they'd throw out pretty much all of the music written since 1900. Sorry Marty Haugen your music isn't that good. It's just boring and doesn't really show the sort of hunger, for lack of a better word, the situation calls for. I do prefer the English translations of the old Latin hymns to the original Latin for the most part but both can coexist.

My church in Cleveland likes to pull out the occasional Gregorian chant, particularly during Lent, and they tend to be very good songs. There's a reason we kept them around for 800 years. Unfortunately they also mix in some awful contemporary songs. I remember one Sunday they had Attende Domine (one of my favorite religious songs) at Communion and their recessional hymn was Somebody's Knockin' At Your Door. Really? I mean, that one has hand motions. I have to fight back the urge to laugh at the fact that we're actually singing it.

That being said, I've been to Latin Mass before and I'm rather convinced restoring that everywhere's not the answer either.

I'm just going to throw this thought out here for those of you who are all like "but....BUT! HE WAS A VALUABLE POSTER AND YOU MEANIES CHASED HIM AWAY!":

I'm not sure if you guys are aware of this, but this is a political discussion forum. Expecting nothing but sunshine and happiness 24/7 and for people to be civil with each other is ridiculous. Yes, this forum has a tendency to be a circle jerk of Yes Men at times but that doesn't give one the excuse to act like a little child (which is what baaaaaaaaaawlexus did recently). I've seen his posts and frankly I don't give the hype here. Big deal, he posts some polls. So does like everybody and their grandmother who dwells in the Election Boards (though admittedly, a lot of those people scare me).I mean seriously, you don't want to be called out on something join the Barney and Friends Forum, don't join the Atlas Forum. The entire point of this board is for there to be debate (and admittedly, not to be in the semi-circle jerk establishment state it is in now). So yes, Defendors, you do have a point about establishment scaring people off, but that doesn't change the fact that baaaaawlexus should've had his spine with him when he got on yesterday afternoon or whenever he decided to "wwwwwwwwwaaaaaaah!" quit.We lost a valuable poster? I would never consider a loser with millimeter thin skin to be a valuable poster. Even if they built the Great Wall of China using text.

Now excuse me while I don't delete all of my comments and quit as people respond to this saying "what the hell man?"

I'm just going to throw this thought out here for those of you who are all like "but....BUT! HE WAS A VALUABLE POSTER AND YOU MEANIES CHASED HIM AWAY!":

I'm not sure if you guys are aware of this, but this is a political discussion forum. Expecting nothing but sunshine and happiness 24/7 and for people to be civil with each other is ridiculous. Yes, this forum has a tendency to be a circle jerk of Yes Men at times but that doesn't give one the excuse to act like a little child (which is what baaaaaaaaaawlexus did recently). I've seen his posts and frankly I don't give the hype here. Big deal, he posts some polls. So does like everybody and their grandmother who dwells in the Election Boards (though admittedly, a lot of those people scare me).I mean seriously, you don't want to be called out on something join the Barney and Friends Forum, don't join the Atlas Forum. The entire point of this board is for there to be debate (and admittedly, not to be in the semi-circle jerk establishment state it is in now). So yes, Defendors, you do have a point about establishment scaring people off, but that doesn't change the fact that baaaaawlexus should've had his spine with him when he got on yesterday afternoon or whenever he decided to "wwwwwwwwwaaaaaaah!" quit.We lost a valuable poster? I would never consider a loser with millimeter thin skin to be a valuable poster. Even if they built the Great Wall of China using text.

Now excuse me while I don't delete all of my comments and quit as people respond to this saying "what the hell man?"

The notion that citizens living far abroad and not intending to return home in the short run nonetheless have an interest in the composition of the national assembly, while those actually affected by it on a daily basis and paying taxes for its upkeep but who are not citizens should not be, is the notion that a country is basically a company and citizenship is basically a share. Next thing you'll be demanding dividends out of the treasury.And sure enough, Western countries have no problems with the international upper middle class aquiring shares in multiple countries, but are very against third world immigrants doing so.The notion just screams "I like Representative Government but have an exterminatory hatred of Democracy" (it's not the same thing, you know.) Using single-member constituencies is just rubbing it in.

Republicans don't even seem to dress up their policies at this point, they just openly state them in the harshest, most cynical way possible. It's like American politics is a grand social experiment to see how far you can take beating up on normal people without reprecussions. So far, the public seems entirely apathetic. (And that is, perhaps, the goal.)

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"The major political task that we face in the next five months is to make certain that Donald [Drumpf] is defeated and defeated badly."

What goes on in a politician's personal life bears no relevance to me. And besides, Ken Starr's investigation of the scandal was far more unethical and deceptive than anything Clinton's ever said.

It may not matter to you, but it does to most Americans. This isn't France. What most foreigners (and quite a few American liberals, apparently) don't understand, is that in America, when you become a public official (especially as a Congressman or as the President of the United States) your life instantly comes under greater scrutiny. You bear a greater responsibility to uphold your office in every aspect including your private life because we as citizens have higher expectations of you since you are representing us. How you conduct your private affairs reflect on your public role. There no line of separation between the two. When you fall short, the consequences are that much greater.

No it doesn't. It only matters to right-wing media pundits who are still trying to turn it into the next Watergate. It didn't work then, it isn't working now, and public opinion polls indicate that the public has apparently forgiven the incident. When you're elected to public office, your responsibilities are merely to represent and govern efficiently. Being a faithful husband is completely independent and irrelevant to those.

Yeah, after four years of being a non-disruptive poster on the forum, never considered a troublemaker, even someone who was liked well enough to be elected Atlasian President, Napoleon should be allowed to stay.

In many ways it can be considered the last "old school" election. Traditional media basically controlled the stream of information to the voter during this election cycle; there was no Facebook, no Twitter, no YouTube and very little in terms of online citizen journalism. In only four short year, 2008 would transform how voters expect to gain their information forever. In that respect, I think that 2004 will be interesting to study from a historical perspective--as it could be said to the culmination of social and political trends that had been set in the days just after WWII.

And what do you mean that 2004 was “2000 without the closeness”? Comparing 2004 to its predecessor (while convenient because of their historical proximity) neglects the fact that, of-and-to-itself, 2004 was an extremely close election where the expected outcome was not already known when the polls opened that Tuesday morning--considering that that is the norm in most elections.

Also note that 2004 produced a starkly polarized electoral map, and the implications of the “blue state/red state” divide that were discussed following this election helped to frame “culture war” of the late 20th/early 21st century in a new, partisan political context.

Yeah, after four years of being a non-disruptive poster on the forum, never considered a troublemaker, even someone who was liked well enough to be elected Atlasian President, Napoleon should be allowed to stay.

What goes on in a politician's personal life bears no relevance to me. And besides, Ken Starr's investigation of the scandal was far more unethical and deceptive than anything Clinton's ever said.

It may not matter to you, but it does to most Americans. This isn't France. What most foreigners (and quite a few American liberals, apparently) don't understand, is that in America, when you become a public official (especially as a Congressman or as the President of the United States) your life instantly comes under greater scrutiny. You bear a greater responsibility to uphold your office in every aspect including your private life because we as citizens have higher expectations of you since you are representing us. How you conduct your private affairs reflect on your public role. There no line of separation between the two. When you fall short, the consequences are that much greater.

No it doesn't. It only matters to right-wing media pundits who are still trying to turn it into the next Watergate. It didn't work then, it isn't working now, and public opinion polls indicate that the public has apparently forgiven the incident. When you're elected to public office, your responsibilities are merely to represent and govern efficiently. Being a faithful husband is completely independent and irrelevant to those.

This x10000

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"The major political task that we face in the next five months is to make certain that Donald [Drumpf] is defeated and defeated badly."

What goes on in a politician's personal life bears no relevance to me. And besides, Ken Starr's investigation of the scandal was far more unethical and deceptive than anything Clinton's ever said.

It may not matter to you, but it does to most Americans. This isn't France. What most foreigners (and quite a few American liberals, apparently) don't understand, is that in America, when you become a public official (especially as a Congressman or as the President of the United States) your life instantly comes under greater scrutiny. You bear a greater responsibility to uphold your office in every aspect including your private life because we as citizens have higher expectations of you since you are representing us. How you conduct your private affairs reflect on your public role. There no line of separation between the two. When you fall short, the consequences are that much greater.

No it doesn't. It only matters to right-wing media pundits who are still trying to turn it into the next Watergate. It didn't work then, it isn't working now, and public opinion polls indicate that the public has apparently forgiven the incident. When you're elected to public office, your responsibilities are merely to represent and govern efficiently. Being a faithful husband is completely independent and irrelevant to those.

This x10000

It's a bit sad that that post made it into here, since it clearly suffered from considerable confusion.

It's a bit sad that that post made it into here, since it clearly suffered from considerable confusion.

Well as if the Democrats wouldn't do exactly the same thing (and rightly so) if Bush I or Reagan were the one caught getting it on with the secretary and then lying under oath about it.

My point was more that none of that gives Clinton more integrity. Writing several posts of that length without even addressing the actual issue hardly qualifies as exceptionally good in my book. Then again, this thread is about as stupid as the Deluge - it seems to serve just as a way of expressing agreement outside of the actual discussion thread.

One would think that ND (and PASOK) would be the arsonists in the image. Seeing as the building is clearly burning already.

Then SYRIZA are the ones hoping to extinguish the fire with gasoline

No, by torching the palace across the road as well.

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If I'm shown as having been active here recently it's either because I've been using the gallery, because I've been using the search engine looking up something from way back, or because I've been reading the most excellent UK by-elections thread again.