If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Joey Votto: Run Producer

Here's a pretty interesting article about Votto's run production this year.

I found this graph interesting:

The simple fact is Votto is both disciplined and good. Because of the discipline, heíll work a lot of counts and heíll draw a lot of walks. Because of the talent, sometimes heíll be pitched around in bigger spots. This year, with runners in scoring position ó and excluding intentional walks ó Votto has seen the fourth-lowest strike rate in baseball. Thatís strike rate, not zone rate, but clearly, Votto isnít seeing pitchers aggressively pound the zone. Theyíre aware of what he can do, and they donít want for him to beat them.

Re: Joey Votto: Run Producer

Great pull from the article. It's that reasoning is why it drives me nuts to hear people like Marty. He's one of the best hitters in baseball, therefore will get less pitches to hit. That's why having a protector in the 2-hole is so important, but we usually have Cozart there. For Votto to get more RBI's, there needs to be higher OBP for the 2-hole that leads to RBI's. GET THAT MARTY?!

Re: Joey Votto: Run Producer

The merits of "protection" are a matter of current debate as far as I understand. No matter though -- Votto's hit tool is already enough for pitchers to avoid giving him anything to hit.

What they've found is that having no/poor protection tends to help your OBP and hurt your SLG. Pretty intuitive, but the "surprising" finding is that it basically comes out in the wash in terms of overall productivity.

In this particular case, it is noteworthy, because BP being poor protection has probably contributed to Votto's high OBP a bit. Or more ironically, BPs overall offensive averageness has contributed to his having so many RBI opportunities -- both as a function of Votto being on base and Votto not having driven more people in himself. If BP were more fearsome a hitter, Votto would probably have more RBI.

Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

Likes:

Re: Joey Votto: Run Producer

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

In this particular case, it is noteworthy, because BP being poor protection has probably contributed to Votto's high OBP a bit. Or more ironically, BPs overall offensive averageness has contributed to his having so many RBI opportunities -- both as a function of Votto being on base and Votto not having driven more people in himself. If BP were more fearsome a hitter, Votto would probably have more RBI.

But if RBI is basically a team stat, then it doesn't matter that much for overall run production, right? I mean, wouldn't we rather have Votto with high OBP (better out avoidance) than a lot of RBI? The logic would be that either way BP is going to be his average self, so he might as well use that average-ness to drive in runs from a sublimely out-avoiding Votto. Right? Or maybe I'm getting that confused.

Re: Joey Votto: Run Producer

Originally Posted by RedEye

But if RBI is basically a team stat, then it doesn't matter that much for overall run production, right? I mean, wouldn't we rather have Votto with high OBP (better out avoidance) than a lot of RBI? The logic would be that either way BP is going to be his average self, so he might as well use that average-ness to drive in runs from a sublimely out-avoiding Votto. Right? Or maybe I'm getting that confused.

The point is that having "protection" doesn't make you a better hitter and not having protection doesn't make you a less productive hitter.

The bigger point we should take away is that managers should stop worrying about protecting certain guys and trying to make certain kinds of production happen and instead simply worry about giving the best hitters the most plate appearances.

Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

Re: Joey Votto: Run Producer

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

The point is that having "protection" doesn't make you a better hitter and not having protection doesn't make you a less productive hitter.

The bigger point we should take away is that managers should stop worrying about protecting certain guys and trying to make certain kinds of production happen and instead simply worry about giving the best hitters the most plate appearances.

I got that. I thought you were saying something different in the passage I cited above. Maybe I misunderstood.

"Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most
importantly, enjoy yourselves!

RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball