Apple ProCare service revamp to offer less bang for buck

Mac users mulling an Apple ProCare license may want to buy into the extended training and repair service within the next 48 hours, as changes due later in the week will effectively double the cost of today's offerings.

According to people familiar with the matter, Apple on Wednesday will split the existing $99 per-year retail service into two separate packages -- one for repair-related services and the other specifically for one-on-one Mac training.

The first $99 package will retain the "ProCare" brand and continue to offer Genius Bar reservations up to 14 days in advance, "Fast Track" priority same-day repairs, and general Genius Bar expedited service for up to 3 computers.

ProCare, however, will no longer include Apple's in-store personal training sessions, which will instead be broken out into a separate offering called "One-to-One." Interested Mac owners will be asked to fork over an additional $99 for the Creative-based training service, which will offer up to 52 one-hour sessions throughout the course of the year.

School teachers -- not students -- buying into the new One-to-one service will receive a $20 discount, bringing the cost of the package down to $79, those familiar with the changes say. On the other hand, there appear to be no cost saving opportunities available to customers who purchase both ProCare and One-to-one.

As part of this week's service shift, Apple is also expected to re-brand its complimentary Talk Mac computer consultation service under the "Personal Shopping" moniker and equip its retail employees with new Spring tee-shirts.

The moves by the Cupertino-based company are the latest aimed at boosting the revenue of its software and service segment, which has seen only a modest 6 percent rise over the past year. For the three-month period ending March, the segment generated about $345 million in revenues, down a percent from the December holiday quarter.

The high-margin repair and training services are often a subject of frustration for Apple retail employees, who are reprimanded by management for failing to push the offerings on new computer buyers. Apple Retail stores typically set specific ProCare and Apple Care goals (or "attach rates") which employees are expected to meet in a given period of time.

It's unclear how the service split will affect Apple's attach rate expectations.

ProCare, however, will no longer include Apple's in-store personal training sessions, which will instead be broken out into a separate offering called "One-to-One." Interested Mac owners will be asked to fork over an additional $99 for the Creative-based training service, which will offer up to 52 one-hour sessions throughout the course of the year.

Will we see diplomas of the people giving us the "one on one" training seesions to show us that the instructors will actually be well versed in the subject matter? I only ask because I definitely do not want to be taught by the individual Apple Store staff that I encountered. It would not be worth even the $1.90384615384 (99.00/52.00)... to pay for his session!

Quote:

As part of this week's service shift, Apple is also expected to re-brand its complimentary Talk Mac computer consultation service under the "Personal Shopping" moniker and equip its retail employees with new Spring tee-shirts.

Forget new Spring tee shirts, how about "springing" for knowledgable floor staff! See above rant!!

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash. Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

Will we see diplomas of the people giving us the "one on one" training seesions to show us that the instructors will actually be well versed in the subject matter? I only ask because I definitely do not want to be taught by the individual Apple Store staff that I encountered. It would not be worth even the $1.90384615384 (99.00/52.00)... to pay for his session! Forget new Spring tee shirts, how about "springing" for knowledgable floor staff! See above rant!!

Man, I could not agree with you more. Everytime I go into the Apple Store the sales people are bone heads. None of them have any clue, I swear, what a processor is. Our industry is moving toward the service aspect. Companies that offer spectacular service are finishing strong. Currently Apple's service is terrible, is this a way for their service to possibly get even worse? I would not pay any extra for service that sucks as it is. Gosh darn it just increase the price of computers by $100 and give free service of some kind, customers will be none the wiser, and it appears at though Apple gives complimentary service!

For the longtime Mac users like myself who really don't need training (I prefer to teach myself usually anyways) this is not bad, since I'm not paying for something I don't need. I would have liked to see it lowered in price, but yay for splitting up

I'm sure the ever important stock holders are happy

It really seems that the procare and 'creative' staff are more towards teaching people how to work a computer. I was in an apple store the other day and I heard a (rather) elderly gentleman with a Crative literally say 'I went to open iTunes and it dissapeared from my computer!' What had happened was he dragged his itunes icon off of his dock and didn't realize what happened.

I highly doubt this will affect many people. You either used it for the training, or the technical support. I'm glad to see ProCare going back to its roots, and giving the One-To-One training its own service.

It makes sense that Apple is giving the teachers a $20 discount as they're the ones that probably need the help. Most young students, although mostly raised on Windwos, are still way ahead of the curve when it comes to understanding how most apps work. Also, this is a great extension of Apple's education plans as it allows teachers to see new/better ways to take advantage of the software that is available to them, and they in turn can instruct the students in their classrooms. Sounds like a decent plan to me.

A hundred bucks for up to 52 hours of one-to-one training of any kind is a steal in this industry, even if you get something out of it only half the time...

Amen. Have we forgotten about our friend's over at the Geek Squad? $229 for a two hour "at home" training session and $39 for a 30 minute phone call on Vista basics. If you find a price to beat Apple's I would love to see it.

Man, I could not agree with you more. Everytime I go into the Apple Store the sales people are bone heads. None of them have any clue, I swear, what a processor is. Our industry is moving toward the service aspect. Companies that offer spectacular service are finishing strong. Currently Apple's service is terrible, is this a way for their service to possibly get even worse? I would not pay any extra for service that sucks as it is. Gosh darn it just increase the price of computers by $100 and give free service of some kind, customers will be none the wiser, and it appears at though Apple gives complimentary service!

I'd have to disagree with both of you. I don't claim the sales people are especially knowledgeable, but they're not the ones helping with ProCare (or shouldn't be). However, the Geniuses in charge of ProCare have been VERY helpful in my experience. Apple's in store help option is revolutionary for the industry. I talk to so many PC users who wish they could take their computer somewhere for free one on one support. The Apple Stores are one of the greatest things about being a Mac user.

Apple does include free service on all of its computers, without charging the extra $100 you suggest. Are you even a Mac owner? You can schedule same day service at the Apple store.

I find it outrageous that these "training sessions" are heavily slanted towards pushing more sales. Several of my friends who were Mac newbies went to the Apple store, got ProCare so they could actually talk to a "genius", decided to take advantage of the so-called "free training sessions" that come with ProCare... and got a time-share-like sales pitch for dot-mac.
Not that dot-mac is inherently a bad solution for newbies, but it really is expensive and I find it rather disingenuous for Apple to have this "hidden agenda".

I find it outrageous that these "training sessions" are heavily slanted towards pushing more sales. Several of my friends who were Mac newbies went to the Apple store, got ProCare so they could actually talk to a "genius", decided to take advantage of the so-called "free training sessions" that come with ProCare... and got a time-share-like sales pitch for dot-mac.
Not that dot-mac is inherently a bad solution for newbies, but it really is expensive and I find it rather disingenuous for Apple to have this "hidden agenda".

Well, it obviously HAS to be a sales pitch. There is no way that it would be profitable for them to offer that much service otherwise.

And there is no way to actually get 52 classes out of it. The reason being is that you have to schedule the classes in advance. The typical wait period is about 2 weeks. You cannot schedule a second class until your first class is completed, so at best, you can get classes every 2 weeks. Even still, the price is a good deal compared to other companies offerings.

I'd have to disagree with both of you. I don't claim the sales people are especially knowledgeable, but they're not the ones helping with ProCare (or shouldn't be). However, the Geniuses in charge of ProCare have been VERY helpful in my experience. Apple's in store help option is revolutionary for the industry.

As a supplement to the above post:

The main reason why you see smart Geniuses and dumb salespersons is because to become a salesperson, you have to have been born 17 years ago, and able to work. The only knowledge you need to sell a product is what it does, what problems of customers it solves, and prices.

To become a genious you have to be laptop, desktop, and OS certified before they even look at you.

I'm proud to say I'm working on becoming a genius !

Its like if you bought a HP computer from Walmart, would you go to the guy that sold you it and seriously expect him to help solve your fatal error with an error of 0x0000031? So why would you go to a salesperson in an Apple store when their job is to sell, not service.

And I like .mac. Its really good product/service, I'm just a starving college student right now. Hey is .mac an education expense?

Not that dot-mac is inherently a bad solution for newbies, but it really is expensive and I find it rather disingenuous for Apple to have this "hidden agenda".

I highly doubt Apple has any hidden agendas. None of the specialists, creatives, or genii are commission based. I've been to the Apple store numerous times for different things, and I find that they are pretty much there to help you make informed decisions.

As far as the .Mac goes, it still is a great buy. Again, like this ProCare issue, find me a service that you pay $99 a year for webhosting, online storage, backup software, E-Mail (which has far better spam protection than most, imho). In Windoze world, you'll pay around $50 just for a a decent backup program.

Does anyone actually USE the service? It certainly doesn't fit my needs, and a price doubling/ service halving or whatever this is would make it less desirable. I think it's probably better to use some of the online pro training services, which are probably a lot more comprehensive and more convenient. It's probably a decent value, but the pressure to add services on top of that may means that it may be paying for itself.

Does anyone actually USE the service? It certainly doesn't fit my needs, and a price doubling/ service halving or whatever this is would make it less desirable. I think it's probably better to use some of the online pro training services, which are probably a lot more comprehensive and more convenient.

Its really geared towards two people:
Older people who don't have time or patience to sit down and figure out this confounded machine and have a nice enough income to pay someone to train them (I remember trying to teach someone how to use a Windows computer for the first time. Never again )

Professionals who have the money to blow to learn every bell and whistle of Final Cut or Logic Pro. (fine programs might I add)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilco

You've got a long road ahead of you.

Tell me about it. I've got the books on the certifications, and they are quite a read. One section takes 6 hours to finish. Not to meantion the word on the street is it takes a couple times before you can actually pass the exam (its tough)

And its okay. I'm a fresh college student and I've got the energy for now

Seems to me that they are just separating it so they can make more money.

I would like to know what is excluded from those trainnings and who will be teaching the class?

I have made appointments to the G bar where they had to get me someone from the backroom that was Unix geeck enough to answer part of my question about some files and configuration settings.

Not every G is going to know what you are asking about and they are going to staff a lot more if people are going to come in that offten.

I bet they are banking that most people will come 2 to 3 times a year.

If they can teach PRO tools I may go for it, and make it a point to show up for at least 40 lessons. If it is just basic computer handling, how to do backups, and iLife, I rather save my money and my time.

Tell me about it. I've got the books on the certifications, and they are quite a read. One section takes 6 hours to finish. Not to meantion the word on the street is it takes a couple times before you can actually pass the exam (its tough)

And its okay. I'm a fresh college student and I've got the energy for now

I was referring to the fact that you're trying to become a genius, and you think that .mac is a good deal.

They do. Any Apple Pro App they teach at the studio. And, in my case, they have a program called the Final Cut Studio series which is 2 hours a week of additional training on Apple's Pro Apps for no additional cost to ProCare members.

Nice timing! I was hoping to extend the AppleCare on my MacBook... but for £199... I think not.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but this was about the ProCare plan, You are thinking of the extended warrenty for Mac computers, as well as ipods and other apple products. ProCare is geared more towards training and being put to the front of the line in service calls/support.

(Apologies for the doublepost, the first one wasn't working at first but now it did )

I highly doubt Apple has any hidden agendas. None of the specialists, creatives, or genii are commission based. I've been to the Apple store numerous times for different things, and I find that they are pretty much there to help you make informed decisions.

As far as the .Mac goes, it still is a great buy. Again, like this ProCare issue, find me a service that you pay $99 a year for webhosting, online storage, backup software, E-Mail (which has far better spam protection than most, imho). In Windoze world, you'll pay around $50 just for a a decent backup program.

I certainly must live next to a good Apple store...

Take a moment to read the whole article. It mentions how Mac Specialists have certain goals to meet. It's pretty unfortunate that a kid can make a $5,000 sale for the company and then be reprimanded for not attaching Pro-Care or .Mac. It's definitely the crappiest part of that job.

Will we see diplomas of the people giving us the "one on one" training seesions to show us that the instructors will actually be well versed in the subject matter? I only ask because I definitely do not want to be taught by the individual Apple Store staff that I encountered. It would not be worth even the $1.90384615384 (99.00/52.00)... to pay for his session!

Forget new Spring tee shirts, how about "springing" for knowledgable floor staff! See above rant!!

The Creatives are the ones who do the lessons, and they wear different shirts to distinguish themselves. They do go through special training and if they have a particular expertise, they teach to that. But the Specialists need to be well-versed too...maybe you should write an e-mail to the store manager to complain about the dummy that you encountered. For what it's worth, a great majority of the ones that I have interacted with have been pretty sharp.

The Creatives are the ones who do the lessons, and they wear different shirts to distinguish themselves. They do go through special training and if they have a particular expertise, they teach to that. But the Specialists need to be well-versed too...maybe you should write an e-mail to the store manager to complain about the dummy that you encountered. For what it's worth, a great majority of the ones that I have interacted with have been pretty sharp.

I agree, contact the manager. I had a several problems with the same person, trying to get some help and he was being an asshole and kept saying, "I'm not sure what you mean" when asked the simplest questions. Finally he heads off to get my card from the back room, stopped before the counter and started talking to some girl. I waited a few minutes, said **** it and asked someone else. I called the manager (I was pretty angry) and he said the employee had been "talked to" in the past for similar issues and that it wouldn't happen again. He wasn't kidding, the guy doesn't work there anymore.

The first $99 package will retain the "ProCare" brand and continue to offer Genius Bar reservations up to 14 days in advance, "Fast Track" priority same-day repairs, and general Genius Bar expedited service for up to 3 computers.

Same day repairs. So if a computer needs parts replaced, they can do it the same day? Does that mean Apple is going to make their iMacs, Mac Minis, and MacBook Pros a lot easier for technicians to take apart and service?

If you ask me, this service was a ripoff to begin with, and of somewhat devious intent - it's making an excuse for crappy service to everyone.

Moreso, jumping the line for one-on-one computer training is ridiculous. If Apple's going to teach people how to use their *@%@ computers they should have classes once/twice a week somewhere near the stores or something. (don't they already do this?)

A simple observation, but if you knew your Apple product stuff well and could communicate it well to the customer, your skills probably would not be attracting enough reward (salary). I think this is a common with all forms of retailing floor staff accross a lot of industry... I find today that a lot of floor staff are just dumbed down "order takers".

For example, last week I went to buy a 42" 1080p LCD TV at a major retailer. The salesman didn't even want to find out what my thinking was nd pushed down my throat one package that included a HD DVD player, I was polite and even partially interested until he bagged the prospects for Blueray players. He lost me there and then. I mean is it possible for the guy to be able to predict the outcome of this format war just as it is beginning, I can't yet and I have been in the technology industry for 25 years more than him.
I bought the TV elsewhere, but have held off on the player for the time being.

In short, I don't think floor staff get paid enough, for us to find great talent there.

If you ask me, this service was a ripoff to begin with, and of somewhat devious intent - it's making an excuse for crappy service to everyone.

Moreso, jumping the line for one-on-one computer training is ridiculous. If Apple's going to teach people how to use their *@%@ computers they should have classes once/twice a week somewhere near the stores or something. (don't they already do this?)

Stuff like sameday repair, would be great on Applecare, however.

I dunno...I have no idea how people can see $99 for a year of lessons as being a rip-off. But yeah, they do have free workshops at every store, and the flagships have more extensive workshops/lectures on applications and special topics. While Apple rips off in some areas, I don't know if we could ask much more in terms of the services they provide in-store.

The main reason why you see smart Geniuses and dumb salespersons is because to become a salesperson, you have to have been born 17 years ago, and able to work. The only knowledge you need to sell a product is what it does, what problems of customers it solves, and prices.

To become a genious you have to be laptop, desktop, and OS certified before they even look at you.

I'm proud to say I'm working on becoming a genius !

Its like if you bought a HP computer from Walmart, would you go to the guy that sold you it and seriously expect him to help solve your fatal error with an error of 0x0000031? So why would you go to a salesperson in an Apple store when their job is to sell, not service.

And I like .mac. Its really good product/service, I'm just a starving college student right now. Hey is .mac an education expense?

Having been an Apple Store employee I caution you against the Genius position. It's certainly a good entry-level position, but the job seems pretty demanding (mentally really to deal with all the disgruntled parents who want to know why you won't replace the Nano their 10-year old smashed in the door) and pays crappy. After leaving the company I was called about a year later and asked if I'd be interested in applying for an open Genius spot (note: I had absolutely NO Apple certs), and was quoted a salary that was in the low $30s. Which, frankly, is pretty crappy given the level of knowledge you need in order to be an effective Genius. It's no wonder they have such high turnover behind the Genius Bar. There's also not much avenue for advancement so far as I can tell. So while you'll be doing quite well if you can swing a Genius position while still being in school, you might be seriously disappointed with your earnings when you graduate. I think the position would have been fun, but I couldn't justify the retail hours and BS I saw from management coupled with a sizable pay cut.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimonL

Nice timing! I was hoping to extend the AppleCare on my MacBook... but for £199... I think not.

But the pricing change is excellent for me. I've never needed to use the Training included in the package before. So for me this is a V.v.good thing!

Yet another genius idea by Apple

SimonL

I generally don't go for warranties but I've owned two Apple portables which, while being amazing products in general, have both needed at least one thing done to them over the life of owning the product. And each of those repairs would have been more expensive out-of-pocket than buying the AppleCare for the product.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazzJackrabbit86

Take a moment to read the whole article. It mentions how Mac Specialists have certain goals to meet. It's pretty unfortunate that a kid can make a $5,000 sale for the company and then be reprimanded for not attaching Pro-Care or .Mac. It's definitely the crappiest part of that job.

This to me was one of the most frustrating things about working as a sales associate at the Apple Store. I specifically remember one day when I sold the second-highest dollar amount for the day (far and above my other sales associates, but below one guy who managed to snag a multi-machine business deal) but I was not congratulated at all the next day on the "sales leader" board...for while I sold more than $10K worth of stuff in a 5 hour shift, my attach rates for AppleCare, .Mac, and ProCare were not as high as the supervisors believed they should be. However my colleague who sold only the cheapest iBook at an education discount but managed to tack on AppleCare and .Mac got a her name highlighted, circled, and stars drawn around it for her 100% AppleCare and .Mac attach rate. Way to go!

There was little incentive, so far as I could tell, to actually make your attach rates, unless you were selling hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of equipment and trying to make the paltry bonus you may or may not get at the end. Furthermore part of your goal is to actually understand customers' needs, and it's not always in the best interest of someone to buy all those attach items. I talked to a number of customers who came back in the store complaining they had been sold this $99 .Mac service and had no idea what it did or what it was for--or worse their kid/friend/coworker/whatever told them they could have gotten most of those services free--and felt like they had been duped into spending money on something they didn't need. And I had to then try to make up some excuse for why they *did* in fact need the service. I was extremely annoyed for instance to have outfitted a nice couple who really just needed a laptop to take with them in their RV traveling with a nice iBook and I think even the AppleCare service and a printer, but no .Mac...Only to have the manager on duty come over at the cash wrap, in the process of ringing them out, and say, "Ohh did he tell you about .Mac? It protects you from viruses", and then look this couple in the eye while they said "Ohh we better get that too!" It was totally useless for these people and they now probably regret their $70 purchase and wonder why they should renew it for $100.

Being a stockholder I'm all for high margins and such, but part of the appeal of Apple and the Apple Store to me is the fact that you can go in, talk to someone, get the right stuff, get a great computer, and have an overall great experience. Hiring knowledgeable staff may help this quarter's bottom-line, but as a consumer I'm much more likely to purchase, and make repeat purchases, from someone I feel really knows their stuff. So paying a little more to hire people who actually know what their talking about in my opinion could actually lead to more sales and revenue. Also, selling people things they *don't* need is a quick way to lose customers who could otherwise have represented significant sales down the road. Also, if Apple considers the Genius position to be one of their best assets in increasing sales and conversion rates, paying them a more reasonable salary could certainly help to get them the best talent, and to retain those people.

That was all a bit off topic I guess. So, to be on topic:

The ProCare "same day service" never seemed to be a legit selling point as half the time parts had to be ordered, so unless you were a flagship store with a giant inventory of spare parts, I don't see how they could actually honor this.

I thank you for the advise. If I can finish it by end of college (about 2 years left ) then I'll go for it.

Its really not just the apple issue. For some reason, all retailers are really pushing the intangibles. When I worked at Circuit City, the managers would consistantly push us to attach the extended warrenty plans and firedog (Circuit City's "Geek Squad") installations and stuff (even though the firedog guys are swamped with work almost 24/7). I'm just going to assume its because they are paying for a service that they may or may not work. In the case of .mac, I highly doubt it costs even 10 bucks for them to keep up the servers for the online service of .mac, and the priveleges are 2 seconds of enabling a person's account on their computer for the stuffs.

Its pure profit. Where as they are making maybe $500 bucks on that macbook you just bought, they are making pure $99 off the ProCare or $250 off of the AppleCare product. Yes if you need to get your computer serviced in 3 years, its beneficial, but the majority of the AppleCare isn't used. The only way I could sell the service plans is that they offered an accidental damage version of it for a premium, and I would sell them the computer they want for 500 bucks, and for 100 bucks more in 3 years when the service is ending, if they don't use the warrenty (which they'll have so they feel protected), they can drop it out the window and get a brand new computer (Its in the contract). Many people liked that, and especially with computers, they will probably not have it in stock and end up giving them a newer computer. I personally got it for my camera so that I'm covered for any college mishaps, then can destroy it and get a brand new one for when college ends that will last me another year at least

From now on, when you hear a salesperson/manager/person in a store say 'has anyone told you about _____', 'do you know anything about our _____', etc. Make sure you hear what the company is really trying to say: "Would you like to give us money for little or no work nor product?"

Also, make sure you realize that most salespeople are NOT getting commission. It was extremely aggrevating when I'd tell people about the accidental plan (I really like that plan, its good, I drop stuff a lot :P) and they'd brush me off as trying to upsell so I can make more money. All of the surpsied looks when I'd spend 2 hours with a customer getting them every single thing they need, getting them firedog setup inhome and the awesome printer, extended warrenty with accidental coverage and a free router as well as the printer, only to find out that I didn't work for commision, I actually only made a flat 7.50 (seasonal, once they asked me to stay on I made 8.15) an hour.

Just remember everyone; Even though these people are representing a corperate company, be it Apple, Circuit City, Best Buy or whoever, these are actual people working for them. Don't take out rip off products on them. Be knowledgeable.

Just like buying a car. If you are some dumb bimbo buying a stupid mustang (loved the old ones, the new ones are stupid), you are going to pay 25k for the thing, and the salesguy isn't going to cut you slack. If you go in and say things like 'I want to see the new Eclipse GS-T But I want to see it without the optional sunroof but I'd like to see the aero kit that you guys have available. Oh I also noticed you had a special going on, could you give me details about it while you tell me the benefits of the GS-T over the RS?' Now if you don't know anything about the eclipse line, you are clueless right now (except for the sunroof part ) but if you work at a mitsubishi dealership, you know. You know.

"The main reason why you see smart Geniuses and dumb salespersons is because to become a salesperson, you have to have been born 17 years ago, and able to work. The only knowledge you need to sell a product is what it does, what problems of customers it solves, and prices.

To become a genious you have to be laptop, desktop, and OS certified before they even look at you.

I'm proud to say I'm working on becoming a genius"

So you are going to be an apple store genius, but you are insulting your future coworkers? Isn't there something wrong with that? I am sure that there are some salespeople that are not very good at their job, maybe you talked to a newbie; but for every one "stupid" apple salesperson there are ten very knowledgeable helpful ones that you are over looking. Just because they don't go through "certification" I am sure that they are fully trained before being put on a salesfloor where so much knowledge is expected of them. I don't think you are being very fair.