What do you guys think is actually realistic to expect from the roster size for SSB4? I really don't know what to expect with what I've been hearing. Based on previous roster size increases from SSB64 - Melee - Brawl, I'm hoping for something around 50-55 characters in this next game. I'm not sure if that's hoping for way too much or what though. Are we looking at more like 40 or so? That would be so wimpy, and really wouldn't make sense, but I'm worried that that's whats gona happen since Sakurai said not to expect such a large roster increase from brawl.

I'm really hoping that if his plan IS to create such a tiny increase for release that there will be big plans for DLC characters in the future. If that were the case I'd be pretty content.

Yes...yes you do. You bring Robin up in about 90% of your posts that are related to Fire Emblem. I can always go back and grab quotes here and there as evidence.

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If you checked lately, I have not.

And I only do to say that he/she (the Tactician) is a potential newcomer idea, especially when you are just looking at Awakening. Chrom is number 1, but Robin/Tactician is tied for number 2 with Lucina. Sure Lucina has the popularity but Tactician has the history with the series. Both are beaten out by Chrom, the main lead of the game and next Marth/Roy/Ike.

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If you haven't checked by now, you keep making excuses about it

I'm hoping they give us at least 45-50 characters which I would be satisfied with. Maybe pop a few for DLC in a couple years or so

View attachment 85087
Here's my updated roster. It's up from 43 to 45. Blue characters are starters, red characters are unlockable and yellow characters are DLC.
I replaced Isa with Saki, Matthew with Isaac, Mewtwo with Lucario, and brought in Ike and King K. Rool. Snake is the only character from Brawl not to return.

Discuss.

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I will be good with Bowser Jr Palutena Ridley Plus Lip.
Then it will be cool with me.

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Lip and Palutena are currently in my wishlist roster, not my prediction. No Bowser Jr. because the most important Mario characters are already represented, and I think they'd bring in characters from new franchises before bringing in a fifth Mario character.

What do you guys think is actually realistic to expect from the roster size for SSB4? I really don't know what to expect with what I've been hearing. Based on previous roster size increases from SSB64 - Melee - Brawl, I'm hoping for something around 50-55 characters in this next game. I'm not sure if that's hoping for way too much or what though. Are we looking at more like 40 or so? That would be so wimpy, and really wouldn't make sense, but I'm worried that that's whats gona happen since Sakurai said not to expect such a large roster increase from brawl.

I'm really hoping that if his plan IS to create such a tiny increase for release that there will be big plans for DLC characters in the future. If that were the case I'd be pretty content.

What do you guys think?

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I think a realistic prediction is 40-45, and certainly no more than 47. I'd be happy with something around 43.

I don't want a huge roster, nor do I see the need for it. Apart from characters from past games that don't make it into SSB4, I'm not sure that I would support character DLC.

What do you guys think is actually realistic to expect from the roster size for SSB4? I really don't know what to expect with what I've been hearing. Based on previous roster size increases from SSB64 - Melee - Brawl, I'm hoping for something around 50-55 characters in this next game. I'm not sure if that's hoping for way too much or what though. Are we looking at more like 40 or so? That would be so wimpy, and really wouldn't make sense, but I'm worried that that's whats gona happen since Sakurai said not to expect such a large roster increase from brawl.

I'm really hoping that if his plan IS to create such a tiny increase for release that there will be big plans for DLC characters in the future. If that were the case I'd be pretty content.

No Bowser Jr. because the most important Mario characters are already represented, and I think they'd bring in characters from new franchises before bringing in a fifth Mario character.

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This is what bothers me the most. If people are pushing for every Pokemon rep plus Mewtwo to return, then we have 5 Pokemon. Mario and Pokemon are two of the most popular series (the only two to literally have more than one representations in the 64 version), so it makes sense to add a fifth character for Mario but that's me.

What do you guys think is actually realistic to expect from the roster size for SSB4? I really don't know what to expect with what I've been hearing. Based on previous roster size increases from SSB64 - Melee - Brawl, I'm hoping for something around 50-55 characters in this next game. I'm not sure if that's hoping for way too much or what though. Are we looking at more like 40 or so? That would be so wimpy, and really wouldn't make sense, but I'm worried that that's whats gona happen since Sakurai said not to expect such a large roster increase from brawl.

I'm really hoping that if his plan IS to create such a tiny increase for release that there will be big plans for DLC characters in the future. If that were the case I'd be pretty content.

What do you guys think?

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Honestly, I really don't believe we'll be seeing the same roster size for both the DS and Wii U versions. Sakurai stated this, yes, but he also stated something disconcerting as well and that is that Ice Climbers and PT wouldn't work on the DS (and I doubt he'd take out Ice Climbers, not so sure about PT).

Also, since the DS version is most likely going to be released months before the Wii U version, we can expect a larger roster, or at least a few character additions that weren't included in the DS version. I'm willing to bet that we'll see around 40-45 characters on the DS, and 45-55 characters on the Wii U. DLC will come way later (almost a year after its release) since Sakurai will have had time to create two "full" games and there won't be any need for DLC right off the bat.

No Bowser Jr. because the most important Mario characters are already represented, and I think they'd bring in characters from new franchises before bringing in a fifth Mario character.

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This is what bothers me the most. If people are pushing for every Pokemon rep plus Mewtwo to return, then we have 5 Pokemon. Mario and Pokemon are two of the most popular series (the only two to literally have more than one representations in the 64 version), so it makes sense to add a fifth character for Mario but that's me.

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I suppose it depends on whether Sakurai considers Yoshi, Wario and/or DK to be Mario characters for roster representation purposes.

I do think that Bowser Jr. has become prominent enough as a character to warrant a spot, though I said the same thing about several Brawl characters that ended up only being Assist trophies.

Honestly, I really don't believe we'll be seeing the same roster size for both the DS and Wii U versions. Sakurai stated this, yes, but he also stated something disconcerting as well and that is that Ice Climbers and PT wouldn't work on the DS (and I doubt he'd take out Ice Climbers, not so sure about PT).

Also, since the DS version is most likely going to be released months before the Wii U version, we can expect a larger roster, or at least a few character additions that weren't included in the DS version. I'm willing to bet that we'll see around 40-45 characters on the DS, and 45-55 characters on the Wii U. DLC will come way later (almost a year after its release) since Sakurai will have had time to create two "full" games and there won't be any need for DLC right off the bat.

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This only pertained to Ice Climbers since the problem was with the character AI; if all else fails he can just use Popo or Nana and buff them up.

Unless something goes terribly wrong I can't see the rosters being different. Sakurai seems pretty committed to having the same characters in both versions.

Wait, isn't the game based on his lineage? I thought that was the sole reason why Chrom has a Falchion.

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Yes, it is. Although that doesn't change my view on the matter.

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The funny thing is they could have had Marth advertise The Shadow Dragon remake here since that New Mystery of the Emblem game is from 2010..... neither of them are recent.

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True, but Sakurai was aware of Shadow Dragon during Brawl's development, it's extremely old, in a special way. New Mystery of the Emblem on the other hand while old, was released closer to this generation.
Checking around the internet for a bit, it seems like there's now no official NA webpage for Shadow Dragon...it used to be http://www.fire-emblem.com/shadowdragon/index.html but as you can see it now redirects to the Awakening site.
As was historically the case for all the other promotions, they'd redirect you to the official website for the respective game(s). So it seems like outside Japan there literally was no other option to promote Marth besides Awakening.

I'll be really annoyed if the roster is that small unless theres DLC. I don't know what excuses (and the word is excuses because there are no good reasons to NOT grow the roster to around 50-55) Sakurai would have to give us such a small roster. I'm hoping the 3DS having a smaller roster in the long run theory is the right one.

I'll be really annoyed if the roster is that small unless theres DLC. I don't know what excuses (and the word is excuses because there are no good reasons to NOT grow the roster to around 50-55) Sakurai would have to give us such a small roster. I'm hoping the 3DS having a smaller roster in the long run theory is the right one.

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If that were to happen, would you be more annoyed if I ended up saying, "I told you so!"?

I'll be really annoyed if the roster is that small unless theres DLC. I don't know what excuses (and the word is excuses because there are no good reasons to NOT grow the roster to around 50-55) Sakurai would have to give us such a small roster. I'm hoping the 3DS having a smaller roster in the long run theory is the right one.

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If that were to happen, would you be more annoyed if I ended up saying, "I told you so!"?

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Yes.. and I will find you .. there's no menacing emoticon here. BS!!

But seriously if you're right, that's the worst thing ever. I'm tired of Sakurai and Nintendo constantly doing things half way. Go all out, you have the capability!!!

I'll be really annoyed if the roster is that small unless theres DLC. I don't know what excuses (and the word is excuses because there are no good reasons to NOT grow the roster to around 50-55) Sakurai would have to give us such a small roster. I'm hoping the 3DS having a smaller roster in the long run theory is the right one.

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If that were to happen, would you be more annoyed if I ended up saying, "I told you so!"?

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Yes.. and I will find you .. there's no menacing emoticon here. BS!!

But seriously if you're right, that's the worst thing ever. I'm tired of Sakurai and Nintendo constantly doing things half way. Go all out, you have the capability!!!

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To be fair,
1) They've already repeatedly stated that the game won't have that big of a roster or that it wouldn't be a leap from Brawl, any disappointment afterwards when the roster is revealed is of your own accord.
2) The same team is working on both the Wii U and 3DS versions, so essentially they work on two characters for each roster addition.
3) Balancing. This Smash game operates under a completely different atmosphere than both Melee and Brawl, and to accommodate for that every single character has to be tweaked, including even the vets. Like Sakurai said, adding characters is basically "multiplying", each character addition upsets the balance and in turn each character is constantly refined and tweaked. Quality > Quantity
4) THE BRAWL ROSTER WAS ALREADY VERY BIG! LIKE RIDLEY!!! It was enough. Seriously, look at it:
Do we really need much more characters?
5) Expanding on my previous point, Brawl had included a lot of very popular and/or worthy additions such as King Dedede, Pit, Sonic, Diddy Kong, Wario etc. there are much less potential newcomers to choose from at this point. The roster isn't all that lacking except for essentially Ridley, Little Mac and King K Rool/Dixie Kong.
6) Sakurai doesn't want to focus on only characters this time, which is admirable given how big and expanded Smash has become. The major complaints against Brawl were the gameplay and other things like it's Target Test(not being character exclusive), Subspace Emissary(the story, repetition), etc. rather than it's roster, what would be smart is to first fix these problems before adding new elements. Also, this game will be in development for 2 years(if it doesn't get delayed, unlikely since Sakurai must've learnt his lesson by now after Brawl and Uprising), the time is limited that they'd waste it on 50 characters.
7) Given the ca$$$h Smash Bros. gives Nintendo, there will likely be a Smash 5 and probably even a Smash 6, which Sakurai is now aware, this means they can't just add around 15 characters each installment, by that rate we'd have 70 characters in Smash 5. So for the future of the franchise they cannot suddenly give such a big roster increase in Smash 4, give it time and it'll eventually reach that number.

Lastly, I find it ignorant of you to say that if they were to have a 35-42 roster they're suddenly "doing things half way", this is Smash Bros., in HD(and also portable), it's a MASSIVE project which Sakurai and Nintendo are responsible of, even if it had 25 characters it still would've taken a lot of effortand manpower, so for you to judge their work on something as superficial as roster size is like I said...ignorant of the amount of work it takes as a whole to develop a Smash Bros. game.

If that were to happen, would you be more annoyed if I ended up saying, "I told you so!"?

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Yes.. and I will find you .. there's no menacing emoticon here. BS!!

But seriously if you're right, that's the worst thing ever. I'm tired of Sakurai and Nintendo constantly doing things half way. Go all out, you have the capability!!!

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To be fair,
1) They've already repeatedly stated that the game won't have that big of a roster or that it wouldn't be a leap from Brawl, any disappointment afterwards when the roster is revealed is of your own accord.

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The fact that they made this statement is horses*** in the first place. They're just trying to cover themselves so people are prepared. This shouldn't be the expectation, they should make a larger leap.

And they have a huge team working on the game, so there's no excuse that they can't make the roster bigger.

The brawl roster was big, but this is the next game and it can easily be bigger. Other fighting games have RIDICULOUS roster sizes.

The fact that they made this statement is horses*** in the first place. They're just trying to cover themselves so people are prepared. This shouldn't be the expectation, they should make a larger leap.

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This was directed at the fact that you claimed you would be "annoyed" if there was a less than 50 roster. You can vent it out now, but all I'm saying is that when the roster is revealed, I don't want to hear bitching...it happened with Brawl and that was unpleasant.

And I guess the problem here is that your expectations didn't match their realistic one, I guess you'll have to warm up to it.

And they have a huge team working on the game, so there's no excuse that they can't make the roster bigger.

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Brawl had an ad-hoc development team comprised of arguably much more than the team on Smash 4. Yet that game was plagued with problems, however the roster wasn't one of it. Either way, it's a huge team working on an even huger game, it's still a formidable objective. You, nor I, have an exact idea of the scope of Smash and the work it takes, so I'll take the word of the people that are working on the game, and they're saying that there are clear problems with a big roster. Since they know more about the development process and the process of adding characters more than we do, I'll take their word more than the ones based on estimated projections, because in the end neither of us know how big of a game Smash 4 could be with 50 characters and whether this "huge team" could handle it.

The brawl roster was big, but this is the next game and it can easily be bigger. Other fighting games have RIDICULOUS roster sizes.

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I agree on the being bigger than the Brawl roster part, but on to the extent of the increase is where we differ, refer to point #7 of my previous post, if they were to keep on increasing the characters by a large amount it'd affect the future of the franchise. This is why they should focus on refining the other aspects of the game first(point #6 in my previous post...) so there are at least meaningful additions for each installment.

Other fighting games follow completely different mechanics(Smash is a platform fighter), and the general scope of those games don't extend much outside of the characters(unlike Smash), they are not comparable. Given the discrepancies, I wouldn't say that one fighter in those fighting games are comparable to the work of one fighter in Smash Bros. And even then, those 50-character fighting games mostly are unbalanced upon release whilst Smash 4 has balance as one of it's higher priorities(judging by interviews and the daily images focused on this balance).

If Roy is more popular, requested, unique, and iconic...and both he and Chrom only appeared in one game? Why isn't he considered more likely than Chrom? I mean it's not like Sakurai ever added Fire Emblem characters for being new. He added Roy for the sole reason of being more unique than Leif who was originally planned and he added Ike because he appeared in 2 games and was highly requested. So we know that Sakurai has added Fire Emblem characters for being more unique, iconic, and requested. I just don't see the appeal or point of Chrom other than to advertise the Awakening game and that sounds like a bad reason to add a character.

It's already happened with Toon Link and The Wind Waker HD so it could very well happen again with Chrom & Fire Emblem: Awakening as well and especially Kid Icarus: Uprising; a game Sakurai directed himself. Although the Chrom situation could go either way, I can't see Sakurai turning down the opportunity to cross-promote his own game prominently in SSB4 with someone in the playable roster from Kid Icarus: Uprising (like Magnus for instance).

If Roy is more popular, requested, unique, and iconic...and both he and Chrom only appeared in one game? Why isn't he considered more likely than Chrom? I mean it's not like Sakurai ever added Fire Emblem characters for being new. He added Roy for the sole reason of being more unique than Leif who was originally planned and he added Ike because he appeared in 2 games and was highly requested. So we know that Sakurai has added Fire Emblem characters for being more unique, iconic, and requested. I just don't see the appeal or point of Chrom other than to advertise the Awakening game and that sounds like a bad reason to add a character.

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Obviously, I agree with you.
However, it's reported that in Brawl days Sakurai went to IS since he wanted a new Fire Emblem character and IS suggested Ike, Sakurai apparently also didn't even know of Ike at that time(despite the requests). Of course, whether Sakurai sees the need for a new FE character NOW is another story, and being in the Roy camp I'm siding with no ofc.

But seriously if you're right, that's the worst thing ever. I'm tired of Sakurai and Nintendo constantly doing things half way. Go all out, you have the capability!!!

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To be fair,
1) They've already repeatedly stated that the game won't have that big of a roster or that it wouldn't be a leap from Brawl, any disappointment afterwards when the roster is revealed is of your own accord.

Click to expand...

The fact that they made this statement is horses*** in the first place. They're just trying to cover themselves so people are prepared. This shouldn't be the expectation, they should make a larger leap.

And they have a huge team working on the game, so there's no excuse that they can't make the roster bigger.

The brawl roster was big, but this is the next game and it can easily be bigger. Other fighting games have RIDICULOUS roster sizes.

I think that the designs used for Bowser, Marth, Donkey Kong, Link, Peach and Samus are superb. This game looks to have my favorite character designs of all time. I really can't wait to see what Captain Falcon looks like!

I guess Olimar, Peach, Luigi, Sonic, Toon Link, and Marth won't be returning in the next Smash Bros. then...

Don't you get it? There's more to characters- especially ones like Lucario and Roy- than advertising.

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Olimar was the original captain. He's always open for invites.

Sonic is Mario's rival and them most requested character... Probably ever.

Toon Link has WWHD, but I sorta see your point with him.

I believe Marth is the original protagonist. Same situation as Olimar.

Roy was in for his game, and Lucario was in for Generation four. Roy will be replaced by Chrom/Liucina, and Lucario...

You know what? Lucario might return. He did have an influence in the story of X and Y. Also the first Mega Evolution you acquire.

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Roy WAS NOT in solely for his game, he got in on his own merits. Originally it was supposed to be Leif that was a Marth clone in Melee, but Sakurai then consulted IS and then replaced Leif with Roy after seeing him due to his unique firesword. Roy got in for uniqueness, his game had nothing at all do with him getting in, the advertisement was just a bonus- as purportedly stated by Sakurai.

I guess Olimar, Peach, Luigi, Sonic, Toon Link, and Marth won't be returning in the next Smash Bros. then...

Don't you get it? There's more to characters- especially ones like Lucario and Roy- than advertising.

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Olimar was the original captain. He's always open for invites.

Sonic is Mario's rival and them most requested character... Probably ever.

Toon Link has WWHD, but I sorta see your point with him.

I believe Marth is the original protagonist. Same situation as Olimar.

Roy was in for his game, and Lucario was in for Generation four. Roy will be replaced by Chrom/Liucina, and Lucario...

You know what? Lucario might return. He did have an influence in the story of X and Y. Also the first Mega Evolution you acquire.

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Roy WAS NOT in for his game, he got in on his own merits. Originally it was supposed to be Leif that was a Marth clone in Melee, but Sakurai then consulted IS and then replaced Leif with Roy after seeing him since his firesword made him more unique. Roy got in for uniqueness, his game had nothing at all do with him getting in, the advertisement was a bonus- as purportedly stated by Sakurai/

Sonic is Mario's rival and them most requested character... Probably ever.

Toon Link has WWHD, but I sorta see your point with him.

I believe Marth is the original protagonist. Same situation as Olimar.

Roy was in for his game, and Lucario was in for Generation four. Roy will be replaced by Chrom/Liucina, and Lucario...

You know what? Lucario might return. He did have an influence in the story of X and Y. Also the first Mega Evolution you acquire.

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Roy WAS NOT in for his game, he got in on his own merits. Originally it was supposed to be Leif that was a Marth clone in Melee, but Sakurai then consulted IS and then replaced Leif with Roy after seeing him since his firesword made him more unique. Roy got in for uniqueness, his game had nothing at all do with him getting in, the advertisement was a bonus- as purportedly stated by Sakurai/

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Well, the more you know!

Fine, maybe Roy will return after all...

I don't hate him, it's just that I don't see it happening.

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Nah, don't worry man, I never thought you hated him. I just saw the part "Roy was in for his game" which aAsSfsfsfdessds me and that prompted me to correct it.

Sonic is Mario's rival and them most requested character... Probably ever.

Toon Link has WWHD, but I sorta see your point with him.

I believe Marth is the original protagonist. Same situation as Olimar.

Roy was in for his game, and Lucario was in for Generation four. Roy will be replaced by Chrom/Liucina, and Lucario...

You know what? Lucario might return. He did have an influence in the story of X and Y. Also the first Mega Evolution you acquire.

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Roy WAS NOT in for his game, he got in on his own merits. Originally it was supposed to be Leif that was a Marth clone in Melee, but Sakurai then consulted IS and then replaced Leif with Roy after seeing him since his firesword made him more unique. Roy got in for uniqueness, his game had nothing at all do with him getting in, the advertisement was a bonus- as purportedly stated by Sakurai/

This thread is NOTa Community Thread and is not to be used for the purposes of off-topic discussion that isn't related to Super Smash Bros 4 on Wii U, otherwise it will be locked and a new thread will be created.

I guess Olimar, Peach, Luigi, Sonic, Toon Link, and Marth won't be returning in the next Smash Bros. then...

Don't you get it? There's more to characters- especially ones like Lucario and Roy- than advertising.

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Olimar was the original captain. He's always open for invites.

Sonic is Mario's rival and them most requested character... Probably ever.

Toon Link has WWHD, but I sorta see your point with him.

I believe Marth is the original protagonist. Same situation as Olimar.

Roy was in for his game, and Lucario was in for Generation four. Roy will be replaced by Chrom/Liucina, and Lucario...

You know what? Lucario might return. He did have an influence in the story of X and Y. Also the first Mega Evolution you acquire.

Click to expand...

Roy WAS NOT in solely for his game, he got in on his own merits. Originally it was supposed to be Leif that was a Marth clone in Melee, but Sakurai then consulted IS and then replaced Leif with Roy after seeing him due to his unique firesword. Roy got in for uniqueness, his game had nothing at all do with him getting in, the advertisement was just a bonus- as purportedly stated by Sakurai.

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What you're saying just proves how expendable Roy is. He got in as a Leif replacement........ LEIF. If Leif had been in Melee instead he wouldn't have made it into Brawl either lol. Leif.

And it's kinda funny how you're on about uniqueness. Roy might be unique in his own game, but in Melee he's what we like to call a "clone." Of course, he can always be given a more unique moveset in SSB4, but why bother when there's a number of more deserving FE characters, including one that was already has a unique moveset in Ike. I'm sorry but from someone who never used Marth in Melee and used Roy quite often, I can say with complete confidence that Marth is Fire Emblem and that Roy was a one-time thing and quite possibly the least deserving character in Smash Bros. history right next to Pichu.

Since when did Google Chrome get in Smash? :o Also, Shulk is not coming. I can guarantee that.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

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I really don't want to side with Soki because he's getting outta hand, but I do think Shulk has a chance. If X is confirmed as Xenobalde 2 and Monolith have plans to make it into an actual series, I believe Shulk could get in as a rep for it. If it isn't, then his chances will drop, and his inclusion would have to be based on his popularity. He probably won't make it in that case.

If Roy is more popular, requested, unique, and iconic...and both he and Chrom only appeared in one game? Why isn't he considered more likely than Chrom? I mean it's not like Sakurai ever added Fire Emblem characters for being new. He added Roy for the sole reason of being more unique than Leif who was originally planned and he added Ike because he appeared in 2 games and was highly requested. So we know that Sakurai has added Fire Emblem characters for being more unique, iconic, and requested. I just don't see the appeal or point of Chrom other than to advertise the Awakening game and that sounds like a bad reason to add a character.

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Does that sounds familiar to I dunno...this guy?

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It's not, the advertising was a bonus for Roy, on the other hand advertising Awakening would be the only point of Chrom and the basis on which he'd be added. It's not comparable.