Are there any men here who can explain this to me? I am the perfect embodiment of the walkaway wife. I dream about leaving all the time. It has been 21 years of near complete emotional neglect along with some emotional abuse. My husband thinks that because he isn't screaming at me or hitting me and is pleasant day to day that should be enough. Apparently, if he brings me coffee 2 or 3 times a month I should be oh so grateful to have him.

For these past two decades I worked very hard on maintaining our relationship. I have always been the one to approach him to air out any issues and I've had enough.

I have been lied to, stood up, left out of his life alot through the years. Six months into our marriage he stole my tax return and gambled it away on football games. We moved to a new town and I was left home while he went to an office function he told me wives weren't invited to, only to find out from another wife that wasn't true that all the wives were there. I spent many, many nights up until 3, 4 , 5 AM wondering where my husband was while he was out partying with his friends. Once I had a really terrible sinus infection with a 103 degree fever and I begged him to stay home and care for the children because I was so ill. He told me that I needed to find a substitute for myself because he couldn't take time from work to watch his own children. A substitute for myself???

He left me at home without a vehicle for 6 mos because he was to lazy to fix the car, but wouldn't allow me to take it in for repair. When I would ask him to pick up diapers and milk on his way home because I had no car he would get mad. I left him home alone without anything, no diapers, milk, wipes, and took the only working car. When I went back home two days later the car was finally fixed.

Once when I was only 6 weeks post partum he told me that he wished I was more like his friends wife (12 years younger, no children yet, beautiful size 2 woman!) because he thought his friend had more freedom. Of course he did!! They had no children yet! The blow to my self esteem was brutal. I have to add that at this same time I signed up at a women's gym and asked for three hours a week to myself to work out. He denied me that privilege as well, complaining about being home and doing dinner alone 2 nights a week for 1 1/2 hours. I cooked it! I cleaned it up! All he had to do was serve it and be with his own kids!

At his worst, he stood at the foot of the bed while I was in the midst of a terrible miscarriage and asked me if I minded that he went golfing!! At the time our children were ages 2-8 yrs and he wanted me to take care of them as well! He didn't understand why I was so hurt and angry. He has shown up to soccer games and parent teacher conferences drunk. He has ruined most Christmas Eve's because he comes home drunk from the office party. He has had two DUI's which cost us about 5K. I have no respect for him

He ran up gambling debts while lying about where he was. I called him once at 3 AM to ask where the heck he was. He was out to breakfast with another woman!!! He skipped mother's day last year saying that I wasn't his mother. He told me to shut up in front of our teenage daughter. Whenever I have complained his stock answer is that it isn't all about me. I'm tired of trying to keep this relationship together.

Three weeks ago I got upset on the phone because he was calling to say he was going to be late again. He got angry and hung up on me again. I was very hurt and slept on the couch that week. Out of the blue he started sleeping on the couch instead, I think to avoid having to bring the nursing baby to me in the middle of the night. Two mornings ago he was up getting ready for work. He handed me the phone before he left and said he would call. ??? The phone rang 10 mins after he left and he says I guess we should talk about what's going on. The phone? I felt so 'penciled in' to his day. We never did talk.

For all these years I made excuses for him. He lost his father, he just graduated from school and has his first professional job and is under stress, he has just become a father and is stressed. He has a new position at work and needs the extra space and time for that. He is still in his 20's and will be better and more mature in his 30's. I'm sure he loves me, he just doesn't show it very well, he married me after all so he must care. Well, those lies I told myself got me through many, many years. I'm 44 now and have 21 years to look back on and I see this pattern of emotional abandonment and abuse, and betrayal and I'm disgusted by it.

Not once in these 21 years has he defended me, fought for our marriage, or treated me like he loved me with any real love. He says he loves me and acts like he doesn't. I'm tired of talking. His words are NEVER realized in his behavior. I just don't understand him or men in general at all. Emotionally, I guess I have 'thrown in the towel' and am here only because I have children and I gave up any chance of a real career to stay home and be a wife and a mother. I feel trapped and invisible. Is it possible to get through to him? Is it possible for him to see how hard it has been to be married to him? He really, truly believes that he has been a good husband because he is generally 'nice' day to day. I would love to have a guys point of view on this.

Oh boy Momto9...my question is...do you really have 9kids? and why the heck did you alllow so many into such a troubled marriage?

But there is hope, if that is what you really are looking for. Men are very straight forward most of the time. They can not read our minds or pick up on the hints we give them. I was in a situation very similar to yours. Always making excuses for his behavior, always being left behind and lied to, etc. I finally got to the point where you are now....all the talking I did for the past 15 years was falling on deaf ears....untill the day I told him flat out...I HAD ENOUGH, I AM DONE! He finally listened to me because he knew he was about to lose his babysitter, financial advisor, house keeper, and what ever else it was he couldnt live without, he decided to put in an effort. Now he has changed and is the man I wanted all along, but the love I once had for him has been lost a long time ago. There is hope if he will for once in his life listen to you and care enough to fix it. It is possible, but it is not an easy road. After all the years of his treatment to you, if he does change, you will find yourself not trusting in him or his new behavior becasue you have been "programmed" to think, act, react a certain way.

The first thing you have to do is make a stand for yourself and MEAN it. If you are lucky, he will see the error of his ways and how detrimental they were.

Yes, I really do have 9 kids. The first few children were conceived during the years when I actually thought if I explained myself to him things would be fine. He would hear me and be respectful because, after all, he loved me right??

Then we would have a few months here and there where things were good and we would get pregnant, and then things would get really awful again. So, we had 5 and then none for 7 years because of problems, and then 3. Our 9th was born 4 years after those three and was a surprise.

I too no longer love my husband the way I used to before all this. What you said about not trusting his actions if he does change is so true as well. I wouldn't trust it and I would have to struggle against my 'programming'.

I have said in the past that I wanted to leave and it doesn't seem to get through to him. I told him this past summer that I didn't love him anymore that I was tired of it all and felt I deserved better. He seemed touched, but nothing, again, is different. I really have tried so many approaches and nothing helps for longer than a few weeks at the most 3 mos. I feel that perhaps my approaches have been wrong and not what men respond to, which is why I wanted a man's input. I don't know, but just can't see living like this for another 20 years. Who needs it.

I told him this past summer that I didn't love him anymore that I was tired of it all and felt I deserved better. He seemed touched, but nothing, again, is different. I really have tried so many approaches and nothing helps for longer than a few weeks at the most 3 mos. I feel that perhaps my approaches have been wrong and not what men respond to, which is why I wanted a man's input. I don't know, but just can't see living like this for another 20 years. Who needs it.

a man's input??? okay, here goes.

guys do not make for very good receivers. in another thread i have referred to women as transmitters and men as receivers, as in radio. we guys are tuned to one channel, you have to broadcast to that channel. or we don't receive the signal.

we want to please you. we want you to be happy. combine thoughts here...

just don't threaten our emotional existance!!! we have em. if making you happy means attending nursing school to become a health care provider, great! but understand that it's new territory for us. that actually scares us, because you're using new things to make yourself happy. it pops into our head "oh no, i'm not making her happy," and we can tend to look desperate and clingy in our reaction to this new desire.

best way to stay ahead of the curve is to communicate your wants and needs. TELL US!!! and if we don't "receive" or if it's coming in fuzzy, find a new way to TELL US!!!

you've (and sprite) have reached a point where your walls of protection are up so much, there never gonna let you see us being the understanding spouse that we are trying so deperately to be. they're your walls, let em down!! just a little, for a while. you might find that man you'd always hoped we were. (i'm gonna tell this story more than once, i think)

guys do not make for very good receivers. in another thread i have referred to women as transmitters and men as receivers, as in radio. we guys are tuned to one channel, you have to broadcast to that channel. or we don't receive the signal.

we want to please you. we want you to be happy. combine thoughts here...

just don't threaten our emotional existance!!! we have em. if making you happy means attending nursing school to become a health care provider, great! but understand that it's new territory for us. that actually scares us, because you're using new things to make yourself happy. it pops into our head "oh no, i'm not making her happy," and we can tend to look desperate and clingy in our reaction to this new desire.

best way to stay ahead of the curve is to communicate your wants and needs. TELL US!!! and if we don't "receive" or if it's coming in fuzzy, find a new way to TELL US!!!

you've (and sprite) have reached a point where your walls of protection are up so much, there never gonna let you see us being the understanding spouse that we are trying so deperately to be. they're your walls, let em down!! just a little, for a while. you might find that man you'd always hoped we were. (i'm gonna tell this story more than once, i think)

I have communicated my wants and needs many, many, many times. I have flat out said things like: The kids and I have planned a Christmas Eve evening just for our family. I would really love for you to join us would you like to? (Smiling, warm, inviting but inside wondering why I have to invite my own husband to spend time with his family on Christmas Eve!!!)

His reply: That sounds fun. Sure!
Me: Our party starts at 6. So I can expect you home by then?

Him: Yes, I'll be there. It is not a problem I will be done by 2 with the office party.

Me: Are you sure? Please just be sure so we can plan accordingly.

Him: I said I'd be there and I will. That's fine.

Me: Okay. I will tell the kids then. I'm really glad you want to join us it will be fun.

REALITY: Shows up at 11 PM completely smashed and falling in the hallway, mad at me because I'm furious with him and hurt once again. Having spent the evening with the kids making up excuses so they don't have to see that their father blew them off on Christmas Eve as well. (Also, I'm 8 months pregnant at the time and feel so cherished by him after that!) Replay this same scene with many events, dates, promises throughout the years. Some more succinct than others. Some where I look him straight in the eye and ask him to promise and he does, then backs out by standing me up. How much more direct can a person be?

I tried the pleading, begging early on and gave it up quickly. We read marriage books together, I explained myself and how women are in general. I tried to get a handle on the male perspective, asking his point of view, putting myself in his position, pointing out issues. I have been very, very specific about birthdays, anniversaries, gift giving, events. I am not a game player. I am very straightforward and nothing gets through. Skipping mother's day last year was really hard on me. I had 9 C-sections to give this man his children and he doesn't want to acknowledge mother's day cause I'm not his mother????? All I could picture were the 9 times I lay there on the operating table scared to death and shaking, and it wasn't enough to warrant a celebration or even a card.

He admitted at one point that he would not want our daughter to marry someone that would treat her the way he has treated me, but does nothing to change. I have tried for 21 years to find his 'channel' and have been unsuccessful. I have been angry, frustrated, lonely, and hurt into the silence I now practice in regards to him. I understand the walls I have built around myself as protection for my heart. I have forced myself to let them down several times, only to be crushed again.

If you can give me some ideas on other approaches that would work I would greatly appreciate it because mine have all failed.

OMG!!! That article was exactly me. this perfectly describes my situation!! And i want to say thank you for it!!! (I am planning on showing it to my husband after i log off here. I hope it helps) I know it gave me a new perspective towards my marriage. And hopefully my husband will feel the same way. {crossing fingers}

momof9--oh girl, i feel so much for you. And i dont really have any advise to you except maybe possible you need to address his drinking. get him into AA, i am sure you have talked to him about it and fought many times about it. But have you or he considered treatment. I think from what it sounds like, a lot of your issues are the result of his drinking. and maybe his drinking is a result of your issues. if he gets treatment, then maybe it will stop the cycle. You are an amazing woman. not only raising your children (I know how hard that is, i have 5) but having to deal with your "azzhole" too.

Kudos to you!! and i hope you find what you need. not only for the children but for yourself. Because you are right, you do deserve better.

I know you want a man's input, but I am going to give you mine anyways. It took me a long time to find my husband "frequency", not 21 years, but long enough. His frequency was that I finally meant what I was saying. I had talked and talked and talked until I was blue in the face, only to be told my way of thinking was wrong, and he made me out to be the bad guy because he was under so much stress from other things in his life....how could I be so unsupportive of him at these times(that was his thinking).

My suggestion to you is to make him believe what you are saying. If words don't work, leave hard evidence. Go on line research some divorce laws or child support laws, print them out, and leave them in plain sight so when he gets home he can see EXACTLY what you have been doing with your time. How much more clear and upfront can you be than having research on paper in black and white outlining what YOU need to do to help yourself? Don't say a word to him about it, let him find it on his own. If he reacts in a way that is aceptable, there may be some hope that he can "see the light" if not, then I am sorry to say he will not change. Some people say that change is not possible, but trust me it is.

OR, next time he takes a weeks vacation from work, you take a week off too. Plan to spend the week at a friends house or even a hotel, without the kids. Make him accountable for his own children for just one week(it may even only take a few days). Don't tell him ahead of time, just do it. The minute he gets home from work on the start of his vacation, have a couple of your bags packed and be ready to walk out the door. Leave a note on the table with instructions(he will need this) and a number where you can be reached, then tell him you will see him when you return. Wish him luck! If you are worried about how he will take care of the kids, let a friend or your family know what you are doing a head of time, and ask if someone will check in from time to time to make sure they are ok. Let your kids know that you simply are going on vacation for awhile and reassure them you will be back. Once he is able to see first hand what you go through every day, he SHOULD have a new found appreciation for you.

To me, him skipping mothers day is totally unacceptable. I have had the priveledge of experiencing this myself. It hurts, but I have also found out that that is the least of our issues. There are only 2 holidays I feel are important ..Mother's Day and my Anniversary. My thinking is that I have put up with more crap from the people that allow these to be a holiday for me, that these are the only 2 days of the year I would really like to be acknowledged! Sadly, my Anniversary doesn't mean as much to me, and my kids are old enough now where they dont need Dad's help to show their appreciation for me on Mother's Day. My kids are great! They now beg Dad to take them shopping for me for Mother's Day. I am so glad they learned the caring side from me and not their father, because if they learned it from their father, it would be just another day to them. When your kids get older, they will start to become wiser and they will see things for themselves. As long as you are the primary in their lives, they will learn from you and how you react to things.

Believe it or not I have done all those things you stated. I have talked about separation and divorce. We've had lengthy discussions about the logistics involved in running two households. I have left him home for extended times with the kids by himself. One year I took a job 5-11 PM every evening so he would have to do dinner, homework, athletics and such by himself because I'd had enough about being told I wasn't supporting him enough and didn't understand his stresses at work. I decided to show him my stresses at home. At first it was bad. I said nothing because I know how hard it is to coordinate all of it and gave him the time to get a handle on it. It took 6 months for him to get good at it, and another 6 months for him to stop complaining at me all the time. I gave him the same lines he gave me whenever he was gone too much (except that he was gone partying and I was gone working!) "I wish you would be more supportive of my work" "I need you to understand that we have bills to pay and I have to bring in more money so we can take care of all of them". "I need a break from it all too, and I never get out with my friends".

He went back to his old ways within 6 mos or so after I quit that job. All of a sudden I was supposed to be a supportive wife and let him have his 'freedom'. He was never out enough with his friends according to him. One month I decided to keep track. He was gone 12 nights out of 30 partying with his friends and still he complained that he didn't get out enough. He also told me during this time that he didn't really have any friends and that it was my fault because I didn't let him go out enough! Ridiculous. I told him that his friendships were his responsibility and that he didn't do anything to help me procure mine, nor should he and that I wasn't responsible for his.

When I showed him the calendar I had kept he was stunned! Still, it did not matter. He stayed home only a tiny bit more for a short time. Whenever I have sat down with him and spelled it out he says things like "Am I really such a terrible guy? Am I such a schmuck to live with?" Always minimizing his own actions. He really thinks that because he is nice, and he is really, really 'nice' that means he is a good husband. What I get after a really horribly hurtful time is coffee in the morning, he asks more about my day, he tries to sound interested, he tries to sound supportive but he NEVER addresses the real issue and when I do he minimizes it or turns it around to make it my fault for not being supportive!! Or says it isn't all about me!! I told him that I thought that was one of our issues, that it was never allowed to be about me or us or our marriage, it was always about him, his career, making money and his time off.

We are really on our last legs here. I am concerned for my children because I do not want them to suffer. I am not sure this man can be reached. I am left with the conclusion that he does not really love me at all, even though he says he does. Isn't that the trouble though. He has never followed through with actions to support all the BS that has come out of his mouth about loving me and the kids. I am not sure he even knows what love is, that it is action, not rhetoric with a heartache and disappointment chaser.

I have wondered if he is an alcoholic as well. It has certainly played a big role in the misery of this marriage. I am at a loss as to how to deal with him anymore.

We are really on our last legs here. I am concerned for my children because I do not want them to suffer. I am not sure this man can be reached. I am left with the conclusion that he does not really love me at all, even though he says he does. Isn't that the trouble though. He has never followed through with actions to support all the BS that has come out of his mouth about loving me and the kids. I am not sure he even knows what love is, that it is action, not rhetoric with a heartache and disappointment chaser.

I have wondered if he is an alcoholic as well. It has certainly played a big role in the misery of this marriage. I am at a loss as to how to deal with him anymore.

hang in there...let me help you from my mistakes...there is hope..i'll be back on tonight

okay, the alcoholic thing. it's an addiction. more than anything you have to make him understand you flat out are NOT gonna tolerate a disruption in your family's life due to alcohol. then describe what you mean by disruption. something like this:

1) AA. 90 meetings in 90 days. also, no drinking. the kids hafta see him as a father, not a drunk, sleepyhead. you say you are leaving, and mean it.

2)tell him what you want from him in independence or growth. be specific. "i want to take those art classes" or whatever. say if he can't support that, you're done. and mean it.

3) tell him the holidays that are YOURS. and tell him you want to be treated with HONOR on those days. or you're out.

4) set aside a financial parachute (money for apartment deposits, phone, utilities, etc) and show him you have it and things are so desparate that you are prepared to use it. and mean it.

5)make a list of ten things you'd change about him if you could. sorta a "magic wand." and don't hold back. if it's weight, appearance, education, money, whatever. tell him that if he cared about "us" he'd certainly wanna know about these things. so there you go, now you know.

6) buy him a copy of how to win your wife back before it's too late by smalley. make him read it. tell him "our situation is in this book."

you'll be so surprised what effect the no drinking one will have on all the rest. that is, if you put your foot down and make him know you are serious about leaving.

WOW, what a powerful list of suggestions. I felt stronger just reading it. I will definitely put it into practice. It will take me some time as I have to set aside funds for me as yet, but will begin immediately. Thank you so much for your suggestions. I'm always hoping for the best.

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