There are no healthy Western European blood lines!!! Please name only one...

Are there any at all? If so, please say it here. Even if it is just your opinion, that is what the forum is for or least what is considered healthy lines from anywhere. I ask because I am in market for two puppies and I am in U.S so I do not have to deal with the politics.

You can register the puppies yourself as the breeder under your own name and then transfer ownership to the buyers later on if you are so worried about the registered name being altered. There are way too many control freak breeders over there, it's ridiculous to be expected to commit to signing a contract for a dog that is more anal than if you were adopting a child. And on top of that, having to hand over a nice sum for the "privilege" of only partially owning what supposedly is your dog.

Breeders over there whine about how so many people choose to import, but that's exactly what I would do if I lived in the US. What it all comes down to ultimately, whether you are breeding here in Europe or over there, is to make sure you properly screen your buyers.

You will find many good Dobermann breeders that work/title in IPO
using healthy Western European blood lines. Most live in North America.
Don't worry about the list being incomplete, use it as a starting point.

The breeders that I know in North America are charging 2500USD for a pup and this includes
cropping/docking and shots. A pup from good Western European blood lines, health tested and titled.
You would be very foolish to pay 5000USD or even 3500USD.

Also, would you please list some of these breeders, because I have been looking and have not found a single one that matched the above deion.

Sorry, wrong again.
The shipping from Germany to San Francisco is 500USD
Cost of pup 1800USD Cost of shipping is 500USD Cost of
cropping/docking is 500USD.
This is nowhere your costs. If you paid more than you were cheated.

I never brought a dog from Germany because of the crock/dock but I live in Ohio and I have picked my dogs up in DC, Michigan and Ohio than and none of them are even close to the 500 U.S you mentioned. It cost me more than 500 US when I brought one back with me from Italy some years ago. But if what you believe to be true, why in the hell would someone buy a dog from any U.S Breeder breeding Euro pups and most charge more than the $2500 dollars mentioned on here with limited registration I know I would not and don't. As for the reasons mentioned below, some are true but the truth is that they do not want any competition and they deal on people not doing their research, thinking they are doing them a favor so they do not have to import them on their own.

If you live in a country that will not register an Albino Dobermann then you don't need to worry about
limited registration.
If you live in a country that will not register Blues and Fawns don't worry about limited registration.
If you live in a country that does not petmit altering puppy regisrtation forms then don't worry about limited registration.
If you live in a country that has a strong breed club that has no tolerance for new owners changing the
names on registration papers to show them as the actual breeders then don't worry about limited registration.

These things do happen in America so the good breeders protect themselves by sending out pups with breeding restrictions. Breeders also have the option of removing breeding restrictions.

If you lived under this type of system you would do the same thing to protect your kennel name.

There are breeders in Europe doing all the appropriate health testing each year, working and titling their dogs etc. and they don't charge 2000 euros per pup. And an even bigger joke on top of that is you're paying that price for a dog on limited registration (can't be bred etc.) or co-ownership with 12 page long contracts dictating what you can and cannot do. Hell no.

If I were to pay that kind of money, I'd like to actually OWN my dog and that means I decide whether or not to breed it etc. Like I said before, unless that price includes full papers and shipping from a far away land ie. the dog is an import, the pup had better shit gold.

Sorry, wrong again.
The shipping from Germany to San Francisco is 500USD
Cost of pup 1800USD Cost of shipping is 500USD Cost of
cropping/docking is 500USD.
This is nowhere your costs. If you paid more than you were cheated.

The breeders that I know in North America are charging 2500USD for a pup and this includes
cropping/docking and shots. A pup from good Western European blood lines, health tested and titled.
You would be very foolish to pay 5000USD or even 3500USD.

I will break this down for you and explain why some of these bitches can shit gold.
For 2500USD you can buy a good bitch that has a excellent working pedigree, from health
tested parents. Train the bitch and when she is old enough complete all the health tests and
put a IPO title on her. IPO clubs usually charge 400/450USD a year for club dues. The cost of the health
tests can run 2000USD. If the bitch is clear of health problems and put to a good male the pups can be sold for 2500USD each. This includes cropping/docking. Depending on what the bitch whelped the litter could show a profit of many times over what the owner has invested. Some of the health tests need to be repeated next year but hardly the cost of the first testing. Breed a bitch three in her life and you will have your gold
as well as nice pups on the ground. The breeders I know usually keep a nice pup or place them with trusted club members. Cost of good healthy titled stud could run 2000USD. There are very few quality Western European Dobermanns in America. There is a market for these dogs.
American Show Dog pups can run up to 3000USD but then you run the risk of health problems.
Greedy breeders can support them selves and their familys on dog breeding they keep the cost down by faking health test results. This is why most good breeders put a limited AKC registration on thier pups.

The breeders that I know in North America are charging 2500USD for a pup and this includes
cropping/docking and shots. A pup from good Western European blood lines, health tested and titled.
You would be very foolish to pay 5000USD or even 3500USD.

It seems to me that a lot of people only like the doberman because of the look and nothing else?

I do not think anyone wants their dog to die :( It cost between 3500 to 5000 U.S dollars to get a puppy here, so we definitely care about the health as well as the look. I personally like the crop/dock, yes, to each his own.

Yes Leo is partly responsible,but look at Lara's pedigree (full of DCM dead dogs)
Akuna Matata,arbat aldo (snake bite in russia?lol,with 3% inbreeding on ebo..hmmm),Tigr,Ugor,Indira,Astor,again Indira,.....)
The worst thing breeder can do is to make line breeding on dogs which died from DCM.

There are several honest American breeders that work and title in IPO.
These people are using Western European blood lines, they health test
in an honest manner and title at honest trials. Most have close friends living
in Europa and several have visited to train and title. These people do not use American
blood lines due to the poor mentality. Some of these breeders have exported pups back to Europa.
Not many but a few. Some travel to Europa for breeding and there is no difference between
the quality of the litter when the whelping is done in North America. There is a big However.
EU requires that the pups have a Rabies shot at 14 weeks and have to wait an additional 120 days for
the blood to be sent to a lab to see if the Rabies shot took. This puts the pups age at about 6 months old.
Shipping is more expensive because a larger kennel is needed. If all this is not a problem you still have to
find a good breeder that health tests and IPO titles and is willing to keep the pup for an extended period of
time. It is expensive but if people are still interested in a cropped/docked Dobermann this is one way.

Mexico:
You are a very naive person. Who is going to lead the race out of the health and
political problems?
The very Clubs that should have protected the race have caused the problems.
The leaders that make policy and guard the standard have violated their own code of
ethics through corruption and graft.
Would you like to step forward and take charge of race???

People, really you sound like you are giving up your "beloved breed" and is kind of annoying. We need to seriously stop complaining and beginn to work, what is going to happen is going to happen no matter what, so instead of giving up -which by the way will be the cause of the end of the dobermann- do things to mantain the breed in the mind of the people. Less crying more action, seriously.

I have always said that the majority of the cheating is done in
America bucause they produce more Dobermanns that many other
countries combined. The breed club is weak and AKC does nothing to
stop cheating. There is no manditory health testing, no manditory mentality testing
no one to make checks that pedigree information is correct. No age limit on breeding
bitches and no set limit for numbers of breeding for males. However America is paying for
all this by producing poor quality and weak minded Dobermanns. No one seems to notice
because there is a market for this type of dog. My advice is Don't buy from North America.