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Re: Ranking of Captains

That's exactly why I said, that at the end of their fight in terms of swordmanship he was just like when he was unreleased.

Using your ability is cheap now? Damn. Using game, that makes your opponent weaker is cheap as well? I TOLD YA! SHUNSUI IS A DIRTY BASTARD!

Don't make me repeat but I'll anyway "Stark was focusing all his might on the Vizards, then this random dude stab him in the back from the shadows & in the process not only critically injuring him but more importantly taking away his haxx wolf ability."

They fought before & Stark forced Shunsui to almost use Bankai. They fought the second time & Shunsui ability to win relied on pure luck.

Re: Ranking of Captains

Originally Posted by Kay3795

Don't make me repeat but I'll anyway "Stark was focusing all his might on the Vizards, then this random dude stab him in the back from the shadows & in the process not only critically injuring him but more importantly taking away his haxx wolf ability."

They fought before & Stark forced Shunsui to almost use Bankai. They fought the second time & Shunsui ability to win relied on pure luck.

Re: Ranking of Captains

Originally Posted by Kay3795

Don't make me repeat but I'll anyway "Stark was focusing all his might on the Vizards, then this random dude stab him in the back from the shadows & in the process not only critically injuring him but more importantly taking away his haxx wolf ability."

They fought before & Stark forced Shunsui to almost use Bankai. They fought the second time & Shunsui ability to win relied on pure luck.

I don't really get this. You are saying Kyouraku won by luck, so, he shouldn't be that powerful from your perspective.
You are also saying Starkk almost forced Kyouraku into going Bankai and talk about it as an accomplishment. So, either you rank Starkk's abilities too lowly, or there is some sort of inconsistency in this.

Re: Ranking of Captains

Originally Posted by Sanadan

How was it pure luck?

Shunsui's zanpakuto functions similarly to a swiss army knife. An indispensable lazy ass weapon that can either work for him, against him or not at all. The zanpakuto reflects his exact character too (A lazy sneaky veteran who would do almost anything through any means to kill an enemy...It's rather very dangerous). We saw how in the first half of the fight Shunsui had against Stark, he was going to use bankai due to being pressurised by mere ceros (he ain't the most durable bunch there is tbh) that were fired quicky & stylishly but in the end they were weaker than Chad's beam used against Shunsui in the SS arc.

Re: Ranking of Captains

Originally Posted by Hakuteiken

I don't really get this. You are saying Kyouraku won by luck, so, he shouldn't be that powerful from your perspective.
You are also saying Starkk almost forced Kyouraku into going Bankai and talk about it as an accomplishment. So, either you rank Starkk's abilities too lowly, or there is some sort of inconsistency in this.

I believe you are misunderstanding. I think he's saying that Kyouraku was actually losing against Starrk for the most part until he began to use his games more prominently. The fact that Shunsui was going to go Bankai against Starrk shows that he felt pushed back by Starrk at the moment. And when Shunsui began to "play" against Starrk, Starrk had stopped using a majority of his abilities, which were shown to be rather effective, against Shunsui in lieu of some rather ineffective reishi swords. I don't think he is ranking Starrk's abilities lowly, rather stating that Kyouraku had actually been overpowered temporarily, before taking over the flow of the fight. Remember, before the final blow, Starrk for the most part lost the will to fight seriously. Then again, I could be wrong.

Re: Ranking of Captains

We have to be able to differentiate the stark with ceros and the starrk with swords. Starrk with cero and wolves is the strongest Starrk, shunsui never even got close to him when he used the gun. The vizards were quicklt dealt with by the wolves. But when he switched to those light sabers, he's basically an unreleased Starrk. Unlike the Resurrection of other arrancars, he doesn't get a boost in speed, defense, stamina, regeneration. It only gives him those cero and wolves.

They were equally matched when both were unreleased. So when Shunsui start using his zan's ability, while Starrk stopped using his abilities (and lost his motivation), they kind of switched place.

I'm not really sure about what Kay said about him unable to use his ceros and wolves anymore. I think that he didn't used the wolves because they were part of his soul, and he didn't want to lose them.

Wow, he dodged attack from 1 sword from double swords style swordsman. I wonder if you ever trained any martial art that requires using katana/bokken/shinai/nodachi/tachi/wakizashi. For training, of course. I can't imagine attacking anyone with nodachi. xD You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. And do I have to remind you, that Shunsui isn't even in Shikai at that moment? Or that he uses one out of two swords, right now? Actually, wakizashi comes really handy in combat. You have no idea how much.

Oh, so Shunsui is weaker because of his personality! I wonder if later in this post you'll show how he threw his haori just to attack him from below. Look at Shunsui's zanpakuto. Games, trickery. He uses double

But Stark isn't sneaky bastard for using his ability, unlimited, infinite Cero? I forgot. Stark could shoot all the ceros he wanted to, but Shunsui had to beat him with one sword, without Shikai, not using his abilities, and attacking those unlimited Ceros head on!

I almost forgot, that using your strongest ability (based on his feats, Kageoni) is a cheat move. Burn in hell, Shunsui!

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to gravely injure him and turn the fight to his favor.

I don't know if you remember, but Stark didn't get a proper hit on Shunsui before attacking him while he was trying to save Ukitake from WW. Oh, I forgot. Attacking from the back when the other guy is trying to save his best friend IS NOT cheap/cheat/underhanded. What will you say? Why would Stark care? And why would Kyoraku care about Stark and his talking or about his fight with Vaizards?

Yes, using your ability to the fullest IS cheating. By taking off haori, he was COMPLETELY covered in black. It gave his attack great boost. Also, reread manga. Even if Stark blocked, it'd be over.

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In the end, neither Shunsui nor Ukitake had to deal with Starrk's full power, or even have to fight him seriously. They were extremely lucky their opponent was such a cool guy.

And did Stark face Bankai Kyoraku? Oh, wait, he didn't. Did he fight with Kyoraku+Ukitake? Oh, wait, Ukitake got trashed by WW. It was Stark who was lucky, that Shunsui didn't go bankai.

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By the way, the Vaizados are stronger than those two but I don't see anybody talking about them, I guess that is because they lost and the mentality here is "higher K/D ratio = stronger".

Any proof, that Vaizards are stronger than Kyoraku and Ukitake? ANY? And your mentality is "Mask and Shinigami= stronger". I didn't see Yamaji wearing a Hollow mask, and did you? Oh, so that small mask doesn't make you stronger than everyone?

Well, Love treats Shunsui as someone stronger than him. Still, he was pissed about him butting into fight. They got lectured by Shunsui and didn't mind that. Shunsui considers himself their superior (well, he always was, since TBTP arc), and they consider him superior. They were both Captains, so Love let himself to make comment on his lawlessness, but it doesn't change their attitude towards Kyoraku.

When Starrk shot Shunsui and temporarily neutralized him, that was the last time Shunsui had to deal with those ceros. He was lucky that the vaizards took the hits from the wolves for him. If he had to face Starrk all by himself from the beginning, how would he fend of the ceros or the wolves?

But still, there's no deny that Bankai Shunsui will be able to beat Starrk. Even though we do not know what it is capable of, at least a 5 fold increase in power is a reasonable indicator. I don't agree with Starrk being lucky that Shunsui didn't go Bankai, because it wouldn't have changed the outcome of the match. I would say that Shunsui was lucky that he didn't need to use Bankai.

Re: Ranking of Captains

Cheating...their specialty is cheating. Seriously? How exactly have they cheated? You realise that it's a bit ridiculous to refer to tactics, and abilities, as cheating.

Even if they are actually tactics, they way they are executed is considered cheating. Switching the blade from hand to hand to get a surprise cut, using a hat to block sight and attack, using fog as a distraction, attacking from behind, popping out of shadows, using a rule game without actually giving out the rules, redirecting an attack while changing its speed and force and so on. Ukitake and specially Shunsui did everything to take Starrk down even by using the cheapest moves possible. Why didn't Shunsui face Starrk's wolves? Because he waited until they were gone. Tactic? Yes. Fair? No.

As for the Vaizards, what have they shown that suggests they are more powerful than Shunsui and Ukitake? How are you coming to that conclusion? The manga seems to suggest something very different.

First of all, what actually suggests that Ukitake and Shunsui are stronger? You seem to be awfully confident about it. Really, I want you to give your proof, because I'll give mine.

Re: Ranking of Captains

First of all, what actually suggests that Ukitake and Shunsui are stronger? You seem to be awfully confident about it. Really, I want you to give your proof, because I'll give mine.

The Vaizados have always been portrayed as brutally strong, and more so if they have their masks on. So your claim that "The manga seems to suggest something very different." is pure made up bullcrap.

You just showed us pictures of Vaizards and Hichigo. THANK YOU, I NEVER SAW IT BEFORE! :O Still, was Yamaji weaker than them? He didn't have a mask. Does Juha have a hollow mask? I don't think so. So that small mask isn't deciding factor. Showing me some Vaizards won't make me believe, that they're stronger than him. Don't make bigger fool from yourself.

Is there anything that suggests, that Vaizards are stronger than Shunsui and Ukitake? No, there isn't. About Shunsui's strength I can say, that he had pretty much upper hand against SR, that had to use special ability- Grimaniel to escape his attack, while he was still in Shikai. And because of his carefreeness, he got shot in eye. Then he cut him pretty deeply, SR's blood was all over the place. And Ukitake+Kyoraku could fight equally with Yamamoto without being injured. Any proof, that any of Vaizards would do better than them? Any proof, that Shunsui is weaker than them? Maybe Shinji would have a chance against him.