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Re: hindsight draft 2012

[quote user="BlueSanta"][quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="juice33s"][quote user="Kruunch"]Adrien Robinson was the only pick that really had me scratching my head. I would have picked up George Iloka (instead of Janzen Jackson as a UDFA and grabbed Robinson as a UDFA instead). Otherwise the whole draft, value wise was a home run by and large. Now to see if they actually get that value out of them.[/quote]
Lol, u have so little faith in the Giants management that you think they picked an UDFA in the 4th round?.....after his pro day I heard a number of NFL people calling him a mid round pick
[/quote] "Faith" has nothing to do with it. It is what it is. And no TE has a mid-round grade that has a total of 12 receptions in his senior year (29 receptions in 4 years of college I might add). I look at draft grades from multiple sources just like everyone else. The highest grade I've found on him was as a possible 7th rounder. Adrien Robinson is the definition of a reach since the probability was that he wasn't going to be drafted. I mean this kid would have been a reach in the 6th round lol.[/quote]

While I completely agree with you, Reese does this every once in a while.

Look at Jaquain Williams, I think its very possible if not likely he goes undrafted if we dont pick him in the 5th. Few knew who he was. Analysts were stumped. Yet we picked him the 5th. We spent a 6th rounder on Adrian Tracy, another guy who very well could have gone undrafted. Reese doesnt mind swinging for the fences on kids he likes. If the reports are true about this kids pro day numbers then he is the best athlete at the TE position in the draft, on top of that, he is an actual end like blocking TE, something rare in college football these days.
[/quote]

Re: hindsight draft 2012

[quote user="GMENAGAIN"]

[quote user="BlueSanta"][quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="juice33s"][quote user="Kruunch"]Adrien Robinson was the only pick that really had me scratching my head. I would have picked up George Iloka (instead of Janzen Jackson as a UDFA and grabbed Robinson as a UDFA instead). Otherwise the whole draft, value wise was a home run by and large. Now to see if they actually get that value out of them.[/quote]
Lol, u have so little faith in the Giants management that you think they picked an UDFA in the 4th round?.....after his pro day I heard a number of NFL people calling him a mid round pick
[/quote] "Faith" has nothing to do with it. It is what it is. And no TE has a mid-round grade that has a total of 12 receptions in his senior year (29 receptions in 4 years of college I might add). I look at draft grades from multiple sources just like everyone else. The highest grade I've found on him was as a possible 7th rounder. Adrien Robinson is the definition of a reach since the probability was that he wasn't going to be drafted. I mean this kid would have been a reach in the 6th round lol.[/quote]

While I completely agree with you, Reese does this every once in a while.

Look at Jaquain Williams, I think its very possible if not likely he goes undrafted if we dont pick him in the 5th. Few knew who he was. Analysts were stumped. Yet we picked him the 5th. We spent a 6th rounder on Adrian Tracy, another guy who very well could have gone undrafted. Reese doesnt mind swinging for the fences on kids he likes. If the reports are true about this kids pro day numbers then he is the best athlete at the TE position in the draft, on top of that, he is an actual end like blocking TE, something rare in college football these days.
[/quote]

We took Williams in the 6th . . . . [/quote]

You are right, but the point still stands. There is little chance he gets drafted if we dont take him. No other teams had shown any interest in him and I suspect few knew who he was.

And for the record, many of the teams who brought Robinson in for an interview ended up drafting a TE. There were also reportedly enough teams at his pro day to see his outstanding performance that I very seriously doubt he goes undrafted as is suggested above.

Re: hindsight draft 2012

[quote user="BlueSanta"][quote user="GMENAGAIN"]

[quote user="BlueSanta"][quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="juice33s"][quote user="Kruunch"]Adrien Robinson was the only pick that really had me scratching my head. I would have picked up George Iloka (instead of Janzen Jackson as a UDFA and grabbed Robinson as a UDFA instead). Otherwise the whole draft, value wise was a home run by and large. Now to see if they actually get that value out of them.[/quote]
Lol, u have so little faith in the Giants management that you think they picked an UDFA in the 4th round?.....after his pro day I heard a number of NFL people calling him a mid round pick
[/quote] "Faith" has nothing to do with it. It is what it is. And no TE has a mid-round grade that has a total of 12 receptions in his senior year (29 receptions in 4 years of college I might add). I look at draft grades from multiple sources just like everyone else. The highest grade I've found on him was as a possible 7th rounder. Adrien Robinson is the definition of a reach since the probability was that he wasn't going to be drafted. I mean this kid would have been a reach in the 6th round lol.[/quote]

While I completely agree with you, Reese does this every once in a while.

Look at Jaquain Williams, I think its very possible if not likely he goes undrafted if we dont pick him in the 5th. Few knew who he was. Analysts were stumped. Yet we picked him the 5th. We spent a 6th rounder on Adrian Tracy, another guy who very well could have gone undrafted. Reese doesnt mind swinging for the fences on kids he likes. If the reports are true about this kids pro day numbers then he is the best athlete at the TE position in the draft, on top of that, he is an actual end like blocking TE, something rare in college football these days.
[/quote]

We took Williams in the 6th . . . .

[/quote]

You are right, but the point still stands. There is little chance he gets drafted if we dont take him. No other teams had shown any interest in him and I suspect few knew who he was.

And for the record, many of the teams who brought Robinson in for an interview ended up drafting a TE. There were also reportedly enough teams at his pro day to see his outstanding performance that I very seriously doubt he goes undrafted as is suggested above.
[/quote]

I don't disagree . . . . I think that a lot ofteams take 6th and 7th roundersthat have a chance to go undrafted because: (1) they like the player; and (2) don't want to risk losing him once the bidding for UDFA's starts. Taking a guy in the draft obvioulsy insures that he wil be on your team . . . . eliminates the uncertainty of bidding for the player once the draft ends . . . .

Re: hindsight draft 2012

[quote user="BlueSanta"][quote user="GMENAGAIN"]

[quote user="BlueSanta"][quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="juice33s"][quote user="Kruunch"]Adrien Robinson was the only pick that really had me scratching my head. I would have picked up George Iloka (instead of Janzen Jackson as a UDFA and grabbed Robinson as a UDFA instead). Otherwise the whole draft, value wise was a home run by and large. Now to see if they actually get that value out of them.[/quote]
Lol, u have so little faith in the Giants management that you think they picked an UDFA in the 4th round?.....after his pro day I heard a number of NFL people calling him a mid round pick
[/quote] "Faith" has nothing to do with it. It is what it is. And no TE has a mid-round grade that has a total of 12 receptions in his senior year (29 receptions in 4 years of college I might add). I look at draft grades from multiple sources just like everyone else. The highest grade I've found on him was as a possible 7th rounder. Adrien Robinson is the definition of a reach since the probability was that he wasn't going to be drafted. I mean this kid would have been a reach in the 6th round lol.[/quote]

While I completely agree with you, Reese does this every once in a while.

Look at Jaquain Williams, I think its very possible if not likely he goes undrafted if we dont pick him in the 5th. Few knew who he was. Analysts were stumped. Yet we picked him the 5th. We spent a 6th rounder on Adrian Tracy, another guy who very well could have gone undrafted. Reese doesnt mind swinging for the fences on kids he likes. If the reports are true about this kids pro day numbers then he is the best athlete at the TE position in the draft, on top of that, he is an actual end like blocking TE, something rare in college football these days.
[/quote]

We took Williams in the 6th . . . . [/quote]

You are right, but the point still stands. There is little chance he gets drafted if we dont take him. No other teams had shown any interest in him and I suspect few knew who he was.

And for the record, many of the teams who brought Robinson in for an interview ended up drafting a TE. There were also reportedly enough teams at his pro day to see his outstanding performance that I very seriously doubt he goes undrafted as is suggested above.
[/quote] Ya, but i think theres a big diffrence because Williams only played a season at S.FLA, and Robinson played 5seasons at Cincy... It was more of not having been around long enough to be noticed with WIlliams.. Once i did research on Jaquain Williams after we picked em, i said it was kinda like getting a 2nd rd pick in the 6th rd, just a yr early... If Jaquain went back to S.FLA and improved his numbers, which most good prospects usually do, he could of been a 2nd rder this past yr, and at least, would of been on a ton of teams radars... Adrien Robinson played a full career at Cincy, and still didn't produce..

Re: hindsight draft 2012

[quote user="BlueSanta"][quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="juice33s"][quote user="Kruunch"]Adrien Robinson was the only pick that really had me scratching my head. I would have picked up George Iloka (instead of Janzen Jackson as a UDFA and grabbed Robinson as a UDFA instead). Otherwise the whole draft, value wise was a home run by and large. Now to see if they actually get that value out of them.[/quote]
Lol, u have so little faith in the Giants management that you think they picked an UDFA in the 4th round?.....after his pro day I heard a number of NFL people calling him a mid round pick
[/quote] "Faith" has nothing to do with it. It is what it is. And no TE has a mid-round grade that has a total of 12 receptions in his senior year (29 receptions in 4 years of college I might add). I look at draft grades from multiple sources just like everyone else. The highest grade I've found on him was as a possible 7th rounder. Adrien Robinson is the definition of a reach since the probability was that he wasn't going to be drafted. I mean this kid would have been a reach in the 6th round lol.[/quote]

While I completely agree with you, Reese does this every once in a while.

Look at Jaquain Williams, I think its very possible if not likely he goes undrafted if we dont pick him in the 5th. Few knew who he was. Analysts were stumped. Yet we picked him the 5th. We spent a 6th rounder on Adrian Tracy, another guy who very well could have gone undrafted. Reese doesnt mind swinging for the fences on kids he likes. If the reports are true about this kids pro day numbers then he is the best athlete at the TE position in the draft, on top of that, he is an actual end like blocking TE, something rare in college football these days.
[/quote]

We took Williams in the 6th . . . . [/quote]

You are right, but the point still stands. There is little chance he gets drafted if we dont take him. No other teams had shown any interest in him and I suspect few knew who he was.

And for the record, many of the teams who brought Robinson in for an interview ended up drafting a TE. There were also reportedly enough teams at his pro day to see his outstanding performance that I very seriously doubt he goes undrafted as is suggested above.
[/quote] Ya, but i think theres a big diffrence because Williams only played a season at S.FLA, and Robinson played 5seasons at Cincy... It was more of not having been around long enough to be noticed with WIlliams.. Once i did research on Jaquain Williams after we picked em, i said it was kinda like getting a 2nd rd pick in the 6th rd, just a yr early... If Jaquain went back to S.FLA and improved his numbers, which most good prospects usually do, he could of been a 2nd rder this past yr, and at least, would of been on a ton of teams radars... Adrien Robinson played a full career at Cincy, and still didn't produce..[/quote]

I am production guy. So I definitely know what you mean(*cough* David Wilson.) I am just saying it is insane to think if we didnt select him he would go undrafted after the pro day he had. That is what I was responding to.

The Cowboys and Steelers, among others, had shown interest in him enough to both attend his pro day and invite him to an interview after it. We selected him and they went on to pick other guys later in the draft who they had not interviewed(that I could find.) Furthermore, it is a little more difficult to analyze the production of a blocking TE. Receptions are what people make videos of, but receptions are a terrible way to predict the ability of a end line blocking TE. How many here have seen him actually block enough to rate him in that regard?. The Giants do use TEs as a blocker 1st and formost so it is a fair question to ask. We have to assume Reese has a lot more video of this kid actually blocking than we do.

Cinci was not a passing team last year. In fact, they ran the ball almost 80% of the time. That is among the highest run %'s major college football. Its hard to accurately evaluate a TE as a passcatching threat when your offense is so clearly based on the run(ranked 1st in big east in rushing and 2nd to last in passing.)

So while I admit I was shocked by the pick and never saw it coming, I understand that I just dont have the resources to evaluate guys as end line blocking TEs unless they play for a team I see a LOT of. There just isnt enough film out there available for us to see of him as a blocker. I assume Reese and company actually do have the resources to evaluate him correctly. Therefor, I have to trust them on this 1. I do know enough to say that his pro day numbers are as good as any TE in the draft, especially when you consider his size and the fact that he was mostly used as a blocker.

Re: hindsight draft 2012

I think it is perfectly fine to reach for a player you like and believe can be a star. If we were a rebuilding team, and we really needed 7 players to make the roster, then fine, go with the safer player. In this case, I'm very happy for them to swing for the fences. Because I believe we have a very good roster coming back, including those who were injured last year. I don't think all 7 picks will make the roster. Swing for the fences, find a star. I trust JR and his teams opinions.

Re: hindsight draft 2012

[quote user="BlueSanta"][quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="juice33s"][quote user="Kruunch"]Adrien Robinson was the only pick that really had me scratching my head. I would have picked up George Iloka (instead of Janzen Jackson as a UDFA and grabbed Robinson as a UDFA instead). Otherwise the whole draft, value wise was a home run by and large. Now to see if they actually get that value out of them.[/quote]
Lol, u have so little faith in the Giants management that you think they picked an UDFA in the 4th round?.....after his pro day I heard a number of NFL people calling him a mid round pick
[/quote] "Faith" has nothing to do with it. It is what it is. And no TE has a mid-round grade that has a total of 12 receptions in his senior year (29 receptions in 4 years of college I might add). I look at draft grades from multiple sources just like everyone else. The highest grade I've found on him was as a possible 7th rounder. Adrien Robinson is the definition of a reach since the probability was that he wasn't going to be drafted. I mean this kid would have been a reach in the 6th round lol.[/quote]

While I completely agree with you, Reese does this every once in a while.

Look at Jaquain Williams, I think its very possible if not likely he goes undrafted if we dont pick him in the 5th. Few knew who he was. Analysts were stumped. Yet we picked him the 5th. We spent a 6th rounder on Adrian Tracy, another guy who very well could have gone undrafted. Reese doesnt mind swinging for the fences on kids he likes. If the reports are true about this kids pro day numbers then he is the best athlete at the TE position in the draft, on top of that, he is an actual end like blocking TE, something rare in college football these days.
[/quote]

We took Williams in the 6th . . . . [/quote]

You are right, but the point still stands. There is little chance he gets drafted if we dont take him. No other teams had shown any interest in him and I suspect few knew who he was.

And for the record, many of the teams who brought Robinson in for an interview ended up drafting a TE. There were also reportedly enough teams at his pro day to see his outstanding performance that I very seriously doubt he goes undrafted as is suggested above.
[/quote] Ya, but i think theres a big diffrence because Williams only played a season at S.FLA, and Robinson played 5seasons at Cincy... It was more of not having been around long enough to be noticed with WIlliams.. Once i did research on Jaquain Williams after we picked em, i said it was kinda like getting a 2nd rd pick in the 6th rd, just a yr early... If Jaquain went back to S.FLA and improved his numbers, which most good prospects usually do, he could of been a 2nd rder this past yr, and at least, would of been on a ton of teams radars... Adrien Robinson played a full career at Cincy, and still didn't produce..[/quote]

I am production guy. So I definitely know what you mean(*cough* David Wilson.) I am just saying it is insane to think if we didnt select him he would go undrafted after the pro day he had. That is what I was responding to.

The Cowboys and Steelers, among others, had shown interest in him enough to both attend his pro day and invite him to an interview after it. We selected him and they went on to pick other guys later in the draft who they had not interviewed(that I could find.) Furthermore, it is a little more difficult to analyze the production of a blocking TE. Receptions are what people make videos of, but receptions are a terrible way to predict the ability of a end line blocking TE. How many here have seen him actually block enough to rate him in that regard?. The Giants do use TEs as a blocker 1st and formost so it is a fair question to ask. We have to assume Reese has a lot more video of this kid actually blocking than we do.

Cinci was not a passing team last year. In fact, they ran the ball almost 80% of the time. That is among the highest run %'s major college football. Its hard to accurately evaluate a TE as a passcatching threat when your offense is so clearly based on the run(ranked 1st in big east in rushing and 2nd to last in passing.)

So while I admit I was shocked by the pick and never saw it coming, I understand that I just dont have the resources to evaluate guys as end line blocking TEs unless they play for a team I see a LOT of. There just isnt enough film out there available for us to see of him as a blocker. I assume Reese and company actually do have the resources to evaluate him correctly. Therefor, I have to trust them on this 1. I do know enough to say that his pro day numbers are as good as any TE in the draft, especially when you consider his size and the fact that he was mostly used as a blocker.
[/quote] Ya, as far as going UDF, ur probably right.. I may or may not of said the same thing when the pick occured or shortly after, becasue i was annoyed, but after calming down, i agree, he'd of gotten picked, but i still wonder if we could of gotten him in RD 6? But maybe Reese thought we coulden't, and really liked em.. Who knows? Either way, i don't think the value was there, but that dosen't matter, as i'm a fan of Adrien Robinson's now, and maybe we get lucky with the Cincy TE like the Eagles did with there Cincy TE Brent Celek...