While I sincerely would love to read a story about Palestinians who are truly outraged and shocked by the attack in Itamar, I’ve yet to come across it.

But, of course, evidence of Palestinian indifference to Jewish suffering doesn’t quite square with the Guardian narrative and, as we know all to well, facts – even headlines – are ultimately subservient to their rigid political agenda.

Residents of the village of Burin, who have fallen victim to settlers’ attacks several times, told Haaretz on Saturday that the murder in Itamar was an abominable act. Palestinian columnists, journalists and private citizens also sharply denounced the attack.

The Palestinian leadership, however, remained hesitant. Palestinian Prime Minister Salam Fayyad said he objected to all acts of violence, but the leaders implied the incident in Itamar may not have been a terror attack. Palestinian Foreign Minister Riyad al-Malki said no Palestinian had ever murdered an infant or civilians in such a manner, either for nationalist causes or in revenge, “which raises doubts regarding Israel’s haste to accuse the Palestinians.”

It would be interesting to know if the Palestinians quoted are representative of a significant segment of their population, a question which the story, unfortunately, doesn’t really attempt to answer, and provides no details regarding the identity of the “columnists, journalists and private citizens” who are said to have “sharply denounced the attack”.

Adam, if you look at Yisrael Medad’s wife Batya’a Shiloh Musings you will see that a friend of hers could hear the Arabs in a local village celebrating that unspeakable atrocity. Her friend is from Ma’ale (Lev- something? Levona?). I don’t think that’s in Gaza.

“The Palestinian nation is ashamed,” Arab-Israeli lawmaker Ahmad Tibi (United Arab List-Ta’al) said during a special Knesset session on the terror attack in which five members of the Fogel family from the settlement of Itamar were brutally murdered in their sleep.

“A coward entered the (Fogel) home in the middle of the night. He looked at his victims while they were sleeping, and killed an entire family. A mother, father and their children. I wonder what that man was thinking when he looked at the baby girl’s face and stabbed her,” the MK said.

“He is mistaken if he thinks he will be called a hero – because he is a coward! He did not do anything in the name of the Palestinian people. The Palestinian nation is ashamed of such people, who distort its image and its righteous struggle to free itself of the occupation. A struggle must be moral, conscionable and fair. There are rules to the struggle against the occupation.”

—–

He claims to be ashamed. I could do without some of the rest of his speech, but at least give him credit for standing in front of the Knesset and saying what he did.

The BBC and The Guardian, working in tandem, are busy covering for the Palestinian terrorists. Both are just as guilty as the Palestinians of incitement, justification of violence and demonisation of Jews.

There is no shame among the Palestinians, they were passing the sweets in Gaza, delighting in the news, much the same as they were thrilled when the Twin Towers collapsed. They are bred to hate the Israelis/Jews, but when they need a surgery they feel like they won the lottery if they get a waver to see a doctor in Hadassah Hospital-Jerusalem. It is a mindless game played by the clueless opinionators, bloggers, wannabe journalists, and assorted fakers who make up stories, like the rabbid Lefties from the British media who think the world could be shaped in their own Jacobin vision. The stench of phony of sorrow and sadness is radioactive. For more than 100 years Jews know that when they moved too close to the Arabs, there was blood spilled. Israelis have just claims, but is it that essential for so many to relocate to the West Bank. When we served during the 1967 war, we thought we were saving the country. I had 600 gas masks delivered to me several days before the “big opening” (June5.1967) in case we were hit by Egyptian rockets. We did not serve in uniform in order to provide religious types with marble floored duplexes on the hills facing Nablus. We were the first to give 36 months to keep the show on the road. I ended up doing extra duty in the Sinai Desert for example. The sacrifice was not for building more Yeshivas in distant communities whose students will confront the local population and get the entire nation entangled in an endless skirmish in the region with the remaining locals. This family went to live in Netzarim, Gaza, I was present at the ground breaking ceremony in the mid 70’s. Was it that essential for jews to live so close to the Gazan population? Their big Cajuna, Arik Sharon, my former commander (1967) was behind the accelerated move to build more and more. One could frequently see him on top of the Judean hills with the big topographic maps, soon thereafter a new settlement will appear on the horizon. he made a U Turn. He took them out. The Fogels were relocated outside the strip and than chose to settle again in close proximity to Arabs among the most extreme group of Meshoogeners, living over the Green Line. No one could make the case that if they moved to an area within Israel proper this could happen. They took a chance on cheaper housing and the subsidized luxury of small community in a geographically attractive area, which requires being on alert 24 hours/day, and this did not help much. Mr. Fogel, a reserve armoured brigade officer was unaware of the tragedy, trusting his dopey buddies for security. The fence worked, the local security chef, blew it. So my question to all these wise guys, is it not better to be inside the Green Line and leave most of the West bank to the Arabs who were there all these years? How many more have to die?

“We did not serve in uniform in order to provide religious types with marble floored duplexes on the hills facing Nablus.”

For a moment I thought you were talking about the Arab residents who have those magnificent 3+ storey houses all over Israel including Judea and Samaria. You are talking about “settlers” I assume. Those same “religious types” that you are so contemptuous of are the same ones who served in the army with you and who nowadays form the majority of the officer corps of the IDF. I would also state with certainty that you yourself did not provide personally those marbled floors in those “duplexes” facing Nablus.

“The sacrifice was not for building more Yeshivas in distant communities whose students will confront the local population and get the entire nation entangled in an endless skirmish in the region with the remaining locals.”

Riiight… and the the 6 day war was started because of which Yeshivas in which distant communities? For that matter, the 1948 War didn’t start because of any Yeshivas either. Or the Yom Kippur war. Or the Lebanon War. Even the Gaza War of 2008 was nothing to do with settlements, yeshivas or “occupation”. It was because Israel stopped the “occupation” and withdrew that the Arabs felt emboldened enough to attack.

Was it that essential for jews to live so close to the Gazan population?

One could say: is it that essential for Israel to live so close to the Arab populations of the Middle East? Your argument is totally specious. Where would you draw the line? Do you suggest withdrawing from Jerusalem too? Isn’t that also “occupied” and isn’t it too full of Arab populations?

Arik Sharon, my former commander (1967) was behind the accelerated move to build more and more. One could frequently see him on top of the Judean hills with the big topographic maps, soon thereafter a new settlement will appear on the horizon. he made a U Turn. He took them out

And what did we get in return? Peace? Ask the residents of Sderot about that one.

So my question to all these wise guys, is it not better to be inside the Green Line and leave most of the West bank to the Arabs who were there all these years?
Again, one could say, isn’t it better for all the Jews to leave Israel to the Arabs who were here before? It is a ridiculous argument. Gush Etzion, for example, was and is Jewish land and has always been recognized as such, since before 1948. Just because the Arabs captured it in 1948 does not make it “holy Palestinian ground”. Kfar Darom was a Jewish time way back in Talmudic times Talmudic times The land there was bought from the Arabs in the 1930s. In what way does this make it an Arab town?

Further to the “Jews shouldn’t build there comment”–could someone explain something to me:

Why is it that if Jews are ethnically cleansed from an area, including one that was primarily Jewish (such as the Jewish Quarter of the Old City of Jerusalem, Gush Etzion, etc.), then that area must remain ethnically cleansed of Jews for ever and ever, even if if subsequently comes under Israel’s control–after a war that Israel’s enemies started in an attempt to extend the ethnic cleansing?

I assume it was Motti Fogel that aroused your ire in the Haaretz article:

“Motti Fogel, brother of Udi Fogel, said at the Har Hamenuhot cemetery on Sunday that the funeral should have been a private affair. “A person is born for himself, to his parents and siblings, and dies for himself, he is not a symbol or a national event, and death must not be allowed to become an instrument of something.” ”

One only has to look at the large number of anti-Semitic and anti-Zionist comments that appear under Shtrasler’s piece to understand the real nature of that journalist and MindTheCrap (has he expressed any real sorrow at all about the murders?).

Jews on the left are a cancer within the Jewish nation. They brought incalculable shame upon the Jewish people with their support for communism. Their support for the British resulted in countless Jews losing their lives in the Holocaust. The cowardice and incompetence of their leaders in 1973 almost resulted in the destruction of the Jewish state. Their socialist agenda almost bankrupted the Jewish state. Today, at least in terms of morality, their appeasement of Islamofascists and their post-Zionism is the worst act of treachery in living memory (far worse than the kapos who were for the most part forced to do what they did out of fear for their lives). Luckily for Israel they are an utterly spent force politically. Shtrasler and his little acolyte on this forum might be hateful but they are in most practical senses an irrelevancy. If they didn’t provide cover for all those anti-Semites and anti-Zionists, we could ignore them completely. The cancer’s spread has been halted and reversed. Hopefully, in the near future, it can be rooted out completely.

Rabbi Yitzhak Shapira of Yitzhar wrote in his book, “When we encounter a gentile who has violated the Seven Laws of Noah and kill him out of concern for upholding the seven mitzvoth, no prohibition has been violated.”
According to the rabbi, “Anywhere where the presence of a gentile poses a threat to Israel, it is permissible to kill him, even if it is a righteous gentile who is not responsible for the threatening situation.”
Even babies …

“Jews on the left …. Their support for the British resulted in countless Jews losing their lives in the Holocaust.”

Of course you forget to mention that the “Jews on the right” actually tried to ally themselves with the Nazis:

“In 1940, Lehi proposed intervening in World War II on the side of Nazi Germany. It offered assistance in “transferring” the Jews of Europe to Palestine, in return for Germany’s help in expelling Britain from Mandate Palestine. Late in 1940, Lehi representative Naftali Lubenchik went to Beirut to meet German official Werner Otto von Hentig (who also was involved with the Haavara or “Transfer” Agreement, which had been transferring German Jews and their funds to Palestine since 1933). Lubenchik told von Hentig that Lehi had not yet revealed its full power and that they were capable of organizing a whole range of anti-British operations.”http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)#Contact_with_Nazi_Germany

– as opposed to the billions transferred to the non-productive Orthodox sectors at the expense of productive sectors ?
– as opposed to the billions required to build, support and maintain scattered outposts, at the expense of productive sectors ?
– as opposed to the billions lost to corruption at the expense of productive sectors ?

@Samson, thanks for the info on the Arab MK’s reaction. That’s good to know. But, my main point refers to the lack of outrage, from what I’ve seen, by the Palestinian “street”. The second point is that Sherwood’s story never presents evidence to support the headline.

i had this african american college professor who wouldent mention Israel by name and would only retort “i have no idea about palistine” regarding stistics of possession of weapons and incidents of murder, where israelis are armed to the teeth with M-16 at age 17 an 18, yet they never murder anyone.

So you bring an article that essentially says nothing special should be done about the murders. Implicitly, “Let’s all calm down and go back to the negotiations table.” Or even shorter, “Turn the other cheek.”

In the meantime, an Arab imperialist reads this and says to himself, “I don’t believe it! Those stupid Jews are actually saying their blood is free for the taking! You can even slit their babies’ throats without paying the price. Is that a great nation or what?”

That’s the bottom line of your “great article from Haaretz”: Encouragement of these bloodthirsty savage. You should be so proud.

@cba “…Why is it that if Jews are ethnically cleansed from an area, including one that was primarily Jewish (such as the Jewish Quarter of the Old City of Jerusalem, Gush Etzion, etc.), then that area must remain ethnically cleansed of Jews for ever and ever, even if if subsequently comes under Israel’s control–after a war that Israel’s enemies started in an attempt to extend the ethnic cleansing?…”

My understanding, based on a variety of sources, is that once land falls into Arab/Muslim hands it must remain theirs forever. Thus the very idea of Jews setting up a state in what Muslims believe is Muslim land sends the Arab/Muslim world into a collective conniption fit.

According to Prof Moshe Sharon, there is no conception within Islam of a permanent peace with Jews:

“… This civilization created one very important, fundamental rule about territory. Any territory that comes under Islamic rule cannot be de-Islamized. Even if at one time or another, the [non-Moslem] enemy takes over the territory that was under Islamic rule, it is considered to be perpetually Islamic.

“This is why whenever you hear about the Arab/Israeli conflict, you hear – territory, territory, territory. There are other aspects to the conflict, but territory is highly important.

“The Christian civilization has not only been seen as a religious opponent, but as a dam stopping Islam from achieving its final goal for which it was created.

“Islam was created to be the army of God, the army of Allah. Every single Moslem is a soldier in this army. Every single Moslem that dies in fighting for the spread of Islam is a shaheed (martyr) no matter how he dies, because – and this is very important – this is an eternal word between the two civilizations. It’s not a war that stops. This was is there because it was created by Allah. Islam must be the ruler. This is a war that will not end…”

Sharon goes on to say that the only way Islamist territorialism will cease is when it has conquered the world for Islam and that the best way to combat it is to react by giving like for like.

This religious imperative drives the Arab world which mindlessly follows the rhetoric of Abbas and other leaders. Islam being an injunction to submit, their people act out what they say unthinkingly like sheep.

Does anyone believe the Debka report that Hamas and others, including the Muslim Brotherhood (with one of its members from Britain) at a meeting last week decided on a campaign of terror against the Jews, starting with the murder of five Israelis?

We have never descended to their level, despite all the allegations. Arab settler women and children are killed because they’re put in the line of fire, for a diabolically cynical win-win situation sought out by the fighters (either the IDF abstains from firing, or it fires and then the Arabs reap the propaganda benefits). In contrast, Jewish women and children are murdered, intentionally, purposely, with malice aforethought. A difference of night and day.

As for the second part: What do you mean, we’re distinguished by not hating because of wrongs done to us?! What do you think we are, Christians?! This is nothing but “Turn the other cheek” paraphrased. No, Jewish values demand that we hate those who do us wrong. If we hated them because of what they are, then I’d agree with you it was wrong. But to hate an enemy because of what the enemy does to you is basic sanity. It is suicidal to withhold hate from those who want us all dead (God forbid).