37 comments:

I checked here after re-reading your post at Pyromaniacs. You have even more gratitude today for that bracing shot in the arm and the perspective it brings.

After reading it, I can wait awhile for your personal analysis and insight. I'll be busy talking to my Father in the meantime.

Thanks for your constant efforts. FWIW, they made a significant difference with a select group of Lutherans in PA ... a difference that looks to be a lasting one in their way of thinking about more than just politics.

It is as difficult as it is wise to keep ones volatile thoughts silent until one has more time to meditate on what happened. Some of us, in the conservative Christian spectrum, regard the nation's choice as a judgment against themselves. What did Christ say again, "Forgive them Father, they know not what they do."

I guess the old adage is true, you can't field a weak liberal against a strong one if you want the liberal vote, and you can't field a weak liberal against a strong liberal if you want the conservative vote either.

Either way, I am thankful at least that the Canadian dollar stands to rise in the wake of the coming French-i-fying of you once great nation. Soon your social programs and wealth-sharing will whittle down your take-home income, and your dollar will plunge, and Canada, even with our minority conservative government, will once again reap the benefits of American folly.

Granted our nation is much worse (we are the Israel to your Judah in so many ways).

I'm greatly disappointed by the outcome, but in the midst of it all, consider a few of the things that have happened:

(1) America has its first African American president-elect;

(2) The Republicans still have enough senators for a filibuster;

(3) Although there may be some new Supreme Court appointments, they will likely be to replace liberal justices;

(4) The country was introduced to Sarah Palin;

(5) You can move up here to Canada until we elect our next Liberal government.

Maybe the best thing to do at this moment is to pause and remember Paul's words to Timothy:

First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time. For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. (1 Timothy 2:1-7)

God will work through the election of Senator Obama in ways you do not even believe possible. Give praise to God and to him alone. Now is the time for healing, not anger. For any anger you display is unrighteous anger. God has chosen his leader for the United States. Whether it is judgment or blessing remains to be seen.

I decline the yoke of slavery, and reserve the right to speak my mind freely until it is taken by force. I believe you've observed that the military defends that right. I intend to continue to exercise it.

I was just about to remark how I couldn't help thinking of when Israel chose to have a king, despite all the warnings from Moses. And then I thought of times in my own life when, despite warnings from others, I went headlong into an action because, when all was said and done, I wanted to do it, and damn the consequences.

Our country chose Sen. Obama as its leader, and God has ordained that it be so. Can't help but see the parallels.

Pratt: "Whether it is judgment or blessing remains to be seen." Well, unless he completely misrepresented his position on the issues (which for a politician is admittedly a likelihood) I believe that question, for the unborn at least, has been resolved.

Dan, I don't read Biblical Christianity because you're wimpy. I read daily because you're truthful, blunt, and never PC. If your hesitancy is spiritual, by all means, hesitate. If your hesitancy is over what readers will think, well, please know that at least this reader got up this morning thinking, "wonder what Dan has to say?" and made this one of my first stops. I look forward to your thoughts, even the brutal.

I agree with uienmaia. I can wait a while. We definitely have strong biblical convictions in this area, but it will take some time to align those feelings with those convictions and say what we need to say with some clear thinking after meditation and prayer.

A couple of things to note: those of that voted for McCain can have a very clear conscience. Those that voted for Obama or voted third party have or did not vote should have a very guilty conscience. They are complicit in this. Notice, how a lot of them will say, "God is sovereign." The difference is they share in the guilt of participating in the election of Obama and they share negatively in God's decretive will.

Those of us who voted for McCain can say we followed in God's preceptive will. That is, we voted to do what was good for our country. The Lord has a different plan. So, anyway, watch for people who try to justify their guilty and wrongful choices with sovereignty of God, much like other sinners will try to justify their sins with the sovereignty of God.

Secondly, I had to chuckle with people agreeing so fast with Justin in saying at B2W, yes, yes, we must now honor the President are the same people who have launched slanderous and cruel attacks against President Bush. So, watched for that. They didn't seem to interested in the sovereignty of God and honoring and respecting the President then. Incidentally, democrats are already talking about passing more federal funding of embryonic stem cell research (passed by Congress but vetoed by President Bush) so those who voted for Obama and third parties can start right away feeling guilty for knowing that as soon as Obama takes office more embryos will be destroyed.

Now, contrary, to what B2W is trying to say, I don't know that Romans 13 is a carte blanche command to honor everyone in government. It gives us broad principles in how we are to respond to government: civil government being ordained by God for ruling and maintaining order; it exists for the welfare of society and thus it has the power of the sword to be used lawfully and we must acknowledge that part of God's order. But when government forbids what God requires or requires what God forbids then we cannot submit.

Another broad principle is that Christians must urge governments to fulfill their proper role and yes we must pray for, obey but yet watch over our government reminding them that God ordained them to rule, protect and keep order.

So, those are some broad principles that we need to meditate and pray on. The Bible does speak about honoring the emperor and people are saying that we have to honor Obama, but again, I don't believe that passage is commanding us to honor every single time and in every single situation (the context of that passage in Peter says government was sent by God to punish those who do evil and praise those who do good). So, what does that mean for people like Hitler? Deitrick Bonhoffer was the only pastor in Germany who openly opposed Hitler?

If our nation elected a Hitler, would we rush to say, let us honor him, let us respect him? At least Germany could claim a little ignorance (I say little, because Hitler preached a lot of hate) because Hitler didn't use his power to murder the Jews until he got unopposed power). Obama's record on pro-abortion and pro-infanticide was very clear. Part of the problem is we don't see the real evil of abortion that it really is because it's done behind closed doors.

So, there is a lot to consider, here Dan, a lot to mediate on, a lot to pray on and may look at some stuff from Deitrick Bonhoffer, Dan, to get some clarification.

I would rather you spend some time and consider all the issues rather than rush. There is a lot to consider.

“We have been the recipients of the choicest bounties of heaven. We have been preserved, the many years, in peace and prosperity. We have grown in numbers, wealth and power, as no other nation has ever grown. But we have forgotten God. We have forgotten the gracious hand which preserved us in peace and multiplied and enriched and strengthened us; and we have vainly imagined, in the deceitfulness of our hearts that all these blessings were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own. Intoxicated with unbroken success, we have become too self-sufficient to feel the necessity of redeeming and preserving grace, too proud to pray to God that made us. It behooves us, then to humble ourselves before the offended Power, to confess our national sins, and to pray for clemency and forgiveness.”

Too many Christians do not understand what a vote is. They really are pro-life but they are so ignorant of 6th-grade-level civics that they apparently do not know they can do anything to protect the innocent (or that God expects them to use their voting privilege to protect the innocent).

I'm just trying to be a "fluffy Calvinist" (lol) and catch glimpses of God's grace in the midst of disappointment.

Believe me, even when half the precincts from PA were reporting and even Fox News was calling the state for Obama, I was still thinking, "McCain could still pull this off."

I do hope that this isn't the end of Sarah Palin on the national stage. Despite the short shrift she got from the media, she ain't no "hick from the sticks" (not that such a stereotype should exist in the first place), and she has the potential to be a transformative figure in American governance.

If you haven't read Dr Mohler's blog post for today at www.albertmohler.com, please do. I think he did a phenomenal job of dealing soberly, yet respectfully and without bitterness, to the wholly changed political and cultural landscape that you, my brothers and sisters in Christ in the US, are facing today.

I'm praying with you and for you as you press on in the fight to defend the dignity of the most vulnerable amongst you, and the integrity of marriage and the family.

I can only imagine the heartache it must be to brothers like you, Mark.

Seeing a black American in that position, from what I've heard and tried to learn, must seem like a glorious dream. But seeing what Obama advocates and embraces, turns the dream to a gut-wrenching nightmare.

You wisely pointed to the first verses in the second chapter of 1 Timothy which speak, amongst other things, of praying for our leaders. I think that's where Dr Mohler is pointing his reader as well. Verse 3 says that this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour.

I find it interesting that verse 4 goes on to connect our praying for all men, including our leaders, and the tranquil (inner) and quiet (outer) life in all godliness and dignity that follows, with the very cause of the gospel.

Not to diminish the heartbreak so many are feeling at this election because of what is at stake.

As it happens, our senior pastor is preaching through 1 Timothy right now, and covered that passage the Sunday before last. His interpretation of verse 4 was the same as yours.

It's easy for me to pray for a leader I like. The challenge is to pray for all leaders, just as it was in the Roman Empire 2000 years ago, when believers didn't even have a choice in who ruled over them.

Our model in this must be William Tyndale, who according to Foxe, prayed openly from the stake for Henry VIII, crying, "Lord! Open the King of England's eyes!" Or Stephen, whose last utterance at the hands of his persecutors was for the Lord to "not hold this sin against them."

Not that we are currently in anywhere near the peril that first or sixteenth century believers were in—and praise God for that—but if Stephen or Tyndale could pray like that under such duress, how much more easily should we be able to pray "for all people" (1 Tim 2:1) "in every place" (v. 8).