Dear visitor, welcome to WesWorld.
If this is your first visit here, please read the Help. It explains in detail how this page works.
To use all features of this page, you should consider registering.
Please use the registration form, to register here or read more information about the registration process.
If you are already registered, please login here.

Belgian Naval bids

Citing the South American War, the Asir-Saudi-Yemeni War, the practical activity in the South China Sea, and the Caribbean, and the unrest in the past several years stemming from civil wars, the Belgian government has passed the Naval Act of 1935.

The Belgian government would prefer to license build the vessels, but will consider exporting work depending on cost.

The Naval Act provides for an expansion of the navy to meet the following commitments and is soliciting bids:

1. Coastal and Riverine patrol for the country of Belgium.

The current navy has been designed to minimally meet the first category. However the vessels are elderly, unmaintained and in need of replacement.

Replacement vessels for the 22 x 1915 Vedettes and 14x 1914-15 Torpedo boats is sought. A total of 24 riverine patrol Vedettes and 24 Torpedo boats are sought.

2. A minelaying and removal force suitable to ensure control of the coastline of Belgium.

A flotilla of 8 vessels is sought, alternately a division of 4 minelayers and a division of 4 minesweepers.

3. A squadron of fisheries protection vessels suitable for work in the North Atlantic.
The current fisheries protection class is expected to fill this role. No further designs are sought.

4. A division (4) of escort cruisers and a squadron ( of escort destroyers suitable for escort of Belgian merchant vessels in areas of high pirate activities or warzones.

The escort cruisers will also have the role of search and rescue operations, and should house a small medical facility, boats and arms lockers for boarding parties, and berthing should be available for housing the crews of up to two merchants.

5. One vessel suitable for show the flag duties, to serve as fleet flagship.

The ship should be capable of defeating a heavy cruiser, or engaging an armored or battlecruiser. Aerial reconnaissance capacity could be of benefit. Speed is a bonus, but expected use is in defense of Belgian Mercantile traffic in high-threat regions.

preferences
Variances from these parameters are acceptable if necessary for a substantially superior vessel.

Range should be sufficient for maritime escort on major routes. Two basic ranges are deemed adequate : 3,500nm for Antwerp New York/Alexandria, and 5,000nm for Antwerp Panama- Honolulu/San Francisco- Far East.

(1) As a matter of pride, the Belgians do not want to rely solely on the Dutch for maritime equipment. France, an ally and major source of weapons since 1916, is the natural choice. Dutch equipment is the second choice, and 3rd party the fourth.

Your local SAE weapon dealer would be pleased if you like to buy from RSAN designs. We regret our design teams are currently somewhat distracted by that conflict in South America so there&acute;s no capacity for new designs. Modifications to existing units should be possible, however (light gun calibers etc.)....

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
Your local SAE weapon dealer would be pleased if you like to buy from RSAN designs. We regret our design teams are currently somewhat distracted by that conflict in South America so there&acute;s no capacity for new designs. Modifications to existing units should be possible, however (light gun calibers etc.)....

Just as disclosure, I did browse around and look at encyclopedias, there are several foriegn designs that seem very suited for what I think Belgium "needs".

Posting here does ensure that they will be considered.

There are however a couple of questions
- Any and all designs open for purchase?
- Any weapon/sensor tech not included in sale? For example the Dutch have nascent fire control machines, radar, Hazemeyer gear and schnorkles that they would not include for foriegn sale.

Quoted

Originally posted by Desertfox
Mexico can offer the following for #1:
Type 1 Motor launch, mine layer version
River Gunboat (RGB)
Also Mexico can offer a new and yet unbuilt -
...
Also Mexico would like to inquire as to what size ships is Belguim looking for, for #2?
...Australia can offer the following:

The Type 1 and RGB both would work in the Vedette role, and the the unbuilt design is quite promising in the TB role.

As for category #2, size is really up to the designer, but 500-1000 tons in all likelyhood. While the primary use is Belgian coastal waters, they are looking for a vessel that can make transit over oceans, for example to the Baltic, the Red Sea or (just for instance) the Phillipines should warfare/civil war lead to mining and a threat to Belgian mercantile vessels.

I will take a look at the Aussie escorts, already saw the 9.2" cruiser, it is more or less what they are talking about. Different machinery/fuel could likely be arranged.

Quoted

There are however a couple of questions
- Any and all designs open for purchase?
- Any weapon/sensor tech not included in sale? For example the Dutch have nascent fire control machines, radar, Hazemeyer gear and schnorkles that they would not include for foriegn sale.

Mexico doesn't have any 'high tech' stuff, while Australia has sold Carrier plans to China. So anything in my countries is fair game.

Quoted

The Type 1 and RGB both would work in the Vedette role, and the the unbuilt design is quite promising in the TB role.

The new design came about for the need for a large TB capable of long range, independant operations in the Caribbean. Atlantean MTBs where too small while the MLs where too slow. The Italian MAS boats where adequate but they had poor seakeeping. So Mexico took the best features from both ships and placed them in a bigger, better hull. A 75 ton prototype was built, but the Villas came around and took all the available resources.

Quoted

As for category #2, size is really up to the designer, but 500-1000 tons in all likelyhood. While the primary use is Belgian coastal waters, they are looking for a vessel that can make transit over oceans, for example to the Baltic, the Red Sea or (just for instance) the Phillipines should warfare/civil war lead to mining and a threat to Belgian mercantile vessels.

Quoted

I will take a look at the Aussie escorts, already saw the 9.2" cruiser, it is more or less what they are talking about. Different machinery/fuel could likely be arranged.

Same design with VTE, mixed Oil/Coal, reduced cruising speed. SS2 seems to hate VTE engines, so unless Belguim is willing to accept the much reduced performance/cost penalties, I would suggest sticking to turbines for the larger ships.

Quoted

Originally posted by Desertfox
Same design with VTE, mixed Oil/Coal, reduced cruising speed. SS2 seems to hate VTE engines, so unless Belguim is willing to accept the much reduced performance/cost penalties, I would suggest sticking to turbines for the larger ships.

First, thanks for showing the alternate. The vessel definitely gets consideration. While at the small end of the size range, the Belgians would feel confident any marauding Cleito cruiser could be killed, or more importantly detered. Deterrence would probably work against that 10" armed pirate that sank the Indian Cruiser Male as well.

As for the VTE, you are correct it probably shouldn't be used for speeds over 20-21knts. Very maintainable system, but bulky. Recommendations of that sort are welcome.

Fuel : 50% (anything up to 90% coal) coal is appreciated. Combined with the vessel's range, that mean they can utilize domestic coal for most duties.

Well, #1 shouldn't stop the Germans, that is a strong preference, more so the coal than the VTE. #2 just shows the German attitude is still anti-Belgian, which they knew because all Germans are monsters Hmm you might be right about #2.

Category 1.
Pending negations regarding cost, the Mexican RPB has been chosen for the riverine patrol vessel role and the Mexican 100-ton proposal has been selected for the torpedo boat role.

Category 2.
The Australian Multi-role hull, the Atlantean MS-26, and the South African Aloinopsis class were considered.
Pending negotiations regarding cost, the Atlantean MS-26 has been selected for acquisition.

Category 3.
The current fisheries protection vessels are adequate.

Category 4.
The Australian Ballarat, Atlantean Torto, and South African PC22 were evaluated for the escort cruiser role. Pending negotiations regarding cost, the Australian Ballarat has been selected for acquisition.

The Atlantean E-22 escort destroyer and South African Uranus-Class, and Naja class were evaluated. Pending negotiations regarding cost, the South African PC22, initially evaluated under the escort cruiser role, has been selected for acquisition.

Category 5.
The Australian designers have worked with us to present a very satisfactory vessel.
Pending negotiations regarding final form, cost, and place of construction, the Australian design has been selected for acquisition.

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
Do the Belgians have any modification requests for the MS-26 design? I assume that 8 will be either purchased or licence built.

They would prefer to license build them, depending on the cost differential.
edit: yep, 8 of them, fitted as combo minelayer/sweepers.

Only modification would be a conversion to a 90/10 coal/oil mix, I've copied the sim and checked, the vessel has plenty of hull for the extra bunkerage necessary for that. The Belgians will likely be mounting different weapons...something I need to actually figure out..

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Kaiser Kirk" (Jan 10th 2008, 7:52am)