If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

I was talking to the contractor that works on some of my properties when tenants move out... general facelift stuff.

He told me that the new tennant was.... he paused... well not normal gay like me, that act like normal men, but one of those.... and he did the limp wrist thing.

He is a good man, but he is a product of his environment. Up in New England, there is a weird thing developing now, where gay people are accepted openly so long as they don't always " act so gay". As we, the gay community assimilate into the general society in new england, there is that weird thing....

It's like the way dark blacks are treated by lighter skinned black.

I think the gay movement is heading into the "it's ok to be gay as long as you can pass as straight" in general society, not by really hiding your homosexuality, but by behaving in ways that do not make it obvious on a moment to moment basis. I THINK people are at the point, the older conservative manual labor types, that they want to be courteous, but are uncomfortable with reminders of it while interacting.

I think that's one reason that there is so much teeth gnashing going on at gay pride parades about hiding the flamers and the dragqueens.

People want to maintain this detente.

Conditional Acceptance = SA/SA. yes it's annoying and trumpets one's insecurities, but then it's also a step on the road to actual acceptance.

This is not about political correctness, it's about self-respect. And I don't know what's predominant in the gay community, but I have NEVER heard anyone say this in real life to describe themselves, and I have never encountered it from anyone not at LEAST partially closeted.

But if for you "str8 acting u b 2" is the level of dignity that the gay community should have, by all means, use any term you deem appropriate to that level. Don't forget to put "sucking off straight men when they're drunk enough" as an ultimate achievement of any gay man too.

PS - the world would be a so much better place if more males were evolved enough to be more "gay acting"...

Last edited by Rolyo85; November 19th, 2012 at 01:46 PM.

That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
- Gene Wolfe

That may very well be... however there is a extremely large portion of gay America who feel just that way.... if they wanted a women they would be straight is often the argument... obviously that isn't true but it does describe someone attracted to a man and manly attributes.

Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.~ Martin Luther King, Jr.

That may very well be... however there is a extremely large portion of gay America who feel just that way.... if they wanted a women they would be straight is often the argument... obviously that isn't true but it does describe someone attracted to a man and manly attributes.

No there isn't, there is a distinct subset of closeted or semi-closeted or bi guys who hide it that is the ONLY group who use "straight acting," and most of them are GAY men (and generally nowhere near as butch as they claim to be once you get past the posturing.)

This being a porn site is over-represented in that respect, but if you go hang out on gay boards populated by out gay men with no dick shots - my position in here will look far more accommodating.

Because it's insulting to gay men - to say to them that I'M a REAL man because I ACT like a STRAIGHT guy.

Well here is an interesting fact about insulating yourself ... did Rolyo know that unless you opt out of the feature Google returns what you want to see based on your previous history... not the entirely of the results... proof positive you insulate yourself to define your own opinion and then believe it is reality.....

Real non-user defined results.

Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.~ Martin Luther King, Jr.

Which by the way is a definition of straight that is completely queer defined and in no way actually defines how real straight guys (whose only common denominator is that they fuck women,) in fact behave.

No there isn't, there is a distinct subset of closeted or semi-closeted or bi guys who hide it that is the ONLY group who use "straight acting," and most of them are GAY men (and generally nowhere near as butch as they claim to be once you get past the posturing.)

This being a porn site is over-represented in that respect, but if you go hang out on gay boards populated by out gay men with no dick shots - my position in here will look far more accommodating.

Because it's insulting to gay men - to say to them that I'M a REAL man because I ACT like a STRAIGHT guy.

It is insulting to you as a gay man and mostly you alone... however after being in 32 states in the last 22 years and being single and looking at gay men most of that time I can tell you many more describe themselves at such. That is of course my anecdotal tale BUT at the same time this and on internet message boards safely hidden behind the internet is where I see most of this angry posturing... never have seen it in reality... whether at the top of a gay pride float on Thayer street in Providence or in coffee shops of Hillcrest in Sandy Ego or in the midwestern cornfields... all seems just about the same to me....in person that is...

Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.~ Martin Luther King, Jr.

Its not supposed to mean effeminate, but the sterotype DOES, that's the point. Str8-acting doesn't exist in opposition to gay-acting, str8-acting guys are gay-acting too, but we don't say we are gay-acting, because that defeats the purpose of making a distinction between the stereotypical and the non. (again, that is not to be separatist, its to self-identify).

I've used every rationalization in the book for "straight acting" myself, and you really aren't saying anything I didn't tell myself - but whatever justification that's used, the fact remains that you are trying to buy "normality" by making a claim to straight as the benchmark of "normal."

Period.

otherwise you could simply say to all those people who are apparently so incredulous that you could possibly be gay, that surprise, you are a gay man who likes beer and football, and redefine the stereotype instead of reinforcing it by validating it.

To the second part, if its regarded as insulting, than is down to your perception. I'm not saying it as a means of saying i'm a real man because i act like a straight guy. I'm saying it because i'm a gay guy who is not stereotypically gay. If OTHER gay guys take offence, its down to their perception that i'm saying there is something wrong with them, i'm not.

Changing stereotypes? Not necessarily. Not happily jumping into them to get a pat on the head by straight people? For sure.

And I will point out that the differences in the two google result pics (I have never actually searched "queer" or much gay related stuff on my computer, but nvm) is two links from years ago. One is from 2004 ffs!

That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
- Gene Wolfe

If ANYTHING, the claim would be 'masculinity is the benchmark for a man'. It has sweet fuck all to do in reality with straight and gay.

I have pointed out before, and it's worth repeating, that a 5'6 slim fem boy who can take ten dicks in one night is much more of a MAN than a pretentious gym queen who bro-hugs and burps but is too chicken to be thought of as "gay"...

"You want me to teach you how to be less gay, so you can sleep with more dudes?"

That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
- Gene Wolfe

If ANYTHING, the claim would be 'masculinity is the benchmark for a man'. It has sweet fuck all to do in reality with straight and gay.

And whilst we are talking about reinforcing stereotypes, I'M not the one kicking others down for using a term to describe a different stereotype. Str8-acting broadens the image of gay guys by expressing an obvious truth, that the traditional stereotype is not correct generally. If there wasn't a stereotype, there wouldn't exist the term str8-acting.

I'm not kicking, I'm telling, I did this too, and we are at the point in this conversation where you will either dismiss what I've said or think about it.

your choice, what you call yourself is pretty incidental to me personally, but whatever you decide to to, you cannot get away from the fact that "straight acting," far from "broadening," the term "gay," as you seem to be telling yourself, is something we gay men made up, in order to distance ourselves from ourselves.

There it is.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Rolyo85

I have pointed out before, and it's worth repeating, that a 5'6 slim fem boy who can take ten dicks in one night is much more of a MAN than a pretentious gym queen who bro-hugs and burps but is too chicken to be thought of as "gay"...

"You want me to teach you how to be less gay, so you can sleep with more dudes?"

See you two see it as an atta boy... and I see it as a description of something desirable.

Have either of you met a guy for as first date and found out he was way the fuck off the chart with drama queen antics?

That is what is not desired imho... but to each his own i suppose....

And I only showed what four results from that google page... there are multiples if you simply drill down in time using the filters... feel free... and look up http://www.seomoz.org/blog/google-personalized-search to figure out how to NOT be told what to think by google because ti doesnt have anything to do with how often you have search queer... it is tracking you and thinking for you....

Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.~ Martin Luther King, Jr.

I have pointed out before, and it's worth repeating, that a 5'6 slim fem boy who can take ten dicks in one night is much more of a MAN than a pretentious gym queen who bro-hugs and burps but is too chicken to be thought of as "gay"...

"You want me to teach you how to be less gay, so you can sleep with more dudes?"

That's not more manly that is just pure slut... and you can keep him

Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.~ Martin Luther King, Jr.

Umm, what was this thread about again? Oh, yeah, people losing it because their candidate didn't win...

As to the guy in Key West. What makes me sad is the impact his suicide must have on his partner, friends and family. Unless there's more to the story since his partner was out with friends whilst the deed was done. Sad on so many levels...

1. The biggest sluts I've ever met have been straight, so by your prude definition, the 5'6 fem boy is straight-acting.
2. The biggest drama queens I've ever met have been straight as well. If you associate drama queeniness with high-pitched voices and excessive wrist movement, that's your own homophobia, and you're responsible for it.

And to answer your question - I haven't had that situation ever. I have however had a situation of "Oh my god, you are stiff as a shovel, and about as interesting. Why am I wasting my time with you?"

That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
- Gene Wolfe

Interestingly enough, the "gayest" people I know are always the best drinkers... Go figure. But your description still matches better with straight men I know. Or is being the center of attention only an issue if it's not "masc" enough?

That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
- Gene Wolfe

Honeslty I have no idea... and quite more honestly it doesn't matter... i will keep getting laid and not experiencing drama and how the people I meet describe themselves is up to me and them... kind of pointless conjecture at this point... but thanks for playing

Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.~ Martin Luther King, Jr.

Honeslty I have no idea... and quite more honestly it doesn't matter... i will keep getting laid and not experiencing drama and how the people I meet describe themselves is up to me and them... kind of pointless conjecture at this point... but thanks for playing

Strange - it seemed to matter a lot one page ago. Are we out of personal insults or something? I'm sorry, I can give you time to recharge

That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
- Gene Wolfe

Strange - it seemed to matter a lot one page ago. Are we out of personal insults or something? I'm sorry, I can give you time to recharge

I dunno perhaps you are running out of insults... but I am done talking to you about it... you have nothing to offer but to insult and repeat your insults... it is rather tiring now go find another board stiff guy to date and I will go find another str8 acting drama queen ...mmmmk?

Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.~ Martin Luther King, Jr.

This is the problem here. Some jubbers just refuse to look at context.

You post this statement above that is intended to insult multiple jubbers and quote me while you are doing it and then claim I am being insulting... take your own post comment and look in your own fucking mirror... try wondering over to making an ass of yourself thread and posting about a third of your jub content....

Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.~ Martin Luther King, Jr.

No, not more of a man, more of a whore. Manliness is not attributed to the ability to gang-bang.

Ah yes, I forgot, sex should only be had with one person, ever, preferably with clothes. Anyway, yes it is more of a man.More of a strong person being able to accept himself, take risks and explore himself (not to mention tolerance to pain ).

Originally Posted by mitchymo

(1)The bolded part:- that is NOT what i am telling myself. Its not broadening the term gay, its broadening the perspective of other people. Furthermore, it wasn't made up in order to distance ourselves from ourselves. It was a natural development, bound to occur, because the stereotype took root, a sterotype that doesn't define ourselves as a collective in the way the term 'gay' does.

(2)My issue with the term queer, is that it is being used to represent EVERYONE who is not heteronormative. I don't see that as anything but polarising, since in what circumstance would everyone but gender-secure heterosexuals with unadventurous sex lives be a focus of ANYTHING that pertains just to them, but not the heteronormative group i just mentioned.
The term queer is for those who are counter culture, nothing more. Its the new hippy.

1. On the contrary - it broadens nothing in people's minds. It just tells straights we're "harmless", and they don't have to bash us so much. In its core, it's not bravery and broadening of horizons, it's cowardice and conformity. Not conscious of course, I'm not calling you a coward. But what you are saying sounds more like excuses than arguments, ESPECIALLY in the context in which most of us encounter the term (remember the headless torsos). By the way, I am exactly in your shoes - people don't think I'm gay until they find out from something I say. But I would still never call myself "straight-acting". I only say that I don't fit their idea of gay stereotypes. I'm still gayer than a unicorn riding a rainbow.

2. Yes, it's the new hippy. It's also more than a little pretentious and most kids get over it. What it ISN'T, is derogatory and offensive, at least to the bigger part of the population nowadays. There are offensive words which just go out of fashion and get forgotten. I don't think there is any young bigot out there who will call you "queer" before he calls you a "fag".

That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
- Gene Wolfe

Yeah, it was a perfect example of how putting the word "fucking" can give you insulting results for any word. I bet you anything that if you put in "fucking homosexuals", you'll get MORE offensive results than from "fucking queers"...

That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
- Gene Wolfe

No. It's NOT insulting anyone. I didn't even name anyone in particular. People need to look at the CONTEXT of the word "Queer". Gay and queer can both be used in an insulting context, but with the article I posted (from 1991) shows how it was NOT used in an insulting context. I didn't insult ANYONE AT ALL. So cry me a river. A third of my jub content? Excuse me? I'm not a fool... and will not be TALKED DOWN TO LIKE THAT, PERIOD.

So saying that the people on JUB are disgusting gays and then telling me to look in the mirror in private comment is not insulting? here lets look again at your insinuation:

Originally Posted by GiancarloC

How about googling "disgusting gays".

This is the problem here. Some jubbers just refuse to look at context.

What would googling disgusting gays get and how is that in context with the discussion about the use of queer versus straight acting?

Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.~ Martin Luther King, Jr.

Don't play dumb. You aren't, and it's embarrassing. He didn't call people here "disgusting gays". He gave an example of how a supposedly neutral word (gay) will give you offensive examples if you put an offensive word next to it. Now feel free to apologize and proceed with slightly less unwarranted insults please.

That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
- Gene Wolfe

So why exactly would you use derogatory terminology and then say "Jubbers around here refuse to look at... then make a post comment that I should look in the mirror after making such a derogatory statement... I am not buying your bullshit... you intended insult and thats what you did...

- - - Updated - - -

No i clearly point out that quoting me and then post commenting to ensure I get your intent....

Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.~ Martin Luther King, Jr.

Classic misdirection. Will you at least combine being faux outraged/offended with the admission that adding "fucking", "disgusting" or whatever skews the results you will get?

Also, I was the one who said people look out of context way before Giancarlo said it too. They do - the context of hook up sites with headless torsos being "straight acting", but too chicken to show their face. THAT'S the context of the masculinity syndrome of the term "straithg-acting". Reading comprehension is even more your friend than google (who kind of abandoned you anyway).

That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
- Gene Wolfe

I'd rather exaggerate a statement than judge people based on how much sex they have.

And I am qualified to observe that only closeted "bi" guys on trashy hook up sites use the term. Therefore that's what I associate it with. I repeat that I have NEVER heard an out and proud gay guy say it in front of people to describe himself. Have you?

That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
- Gene Wolfe

Anyone got anything related to the topic? I know a couple of repubs who are taking the election in stride--one admitted that he never thought Romney would win. Of course, I asked him why? He said "Because he's an idiot". Okay then, but you still voted for him...

Whores get paid. It's usually a sign of pettiness to judge people for their sex life. There is no shame in consensual sex if it doesn't endanger anyone involved. Christian morality is overrated in that area of human existence.

My experience argues with your experience. So far you're giving me an example with yourself. I am giving you an example with what I have seen both online and in real life in both one of the gayest college towns in America, AND the oldest gayburhood in Chicago. If you want to disprove me, feel free to find anything online that provides any backbone to your concept of broadening people's horizons or preferably - WHY TX-Beau is wrong.

Also, I would be super grateful if some kind-hearted mod would extricate this discussion from the rest of the topic and give it its own thread.

That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
- Gene Wolfe

And yet not at all petty to glorify it?? i.e. more of a man because..., its a misnomer you brought into the debate, and THAT is petty.

I have nothing to prove Rolyo. GC started this by likening the term str8-acting to queer. You then insulted me (not directly), as someone who identifies as str8-acting. In my response to explain, this debate has unfolded. You disagree with MY stance. The onus is on YOU to disprove me. You can't do that with your own experiences when like you've pointed out 'your experience argues with mine'. So YOU go find something online that invalidates the phrase str8-acting as being all of the negative things being attributed to it, and those who self-identify with it.

With pleasure. Just make sure you read the actual links, not just my quotes:

Straightacting.com became well-known in 2000 for its “famous Straight-Acting Quiz.” Multiple choice questions determine your level of straight-actingness. Or lack thereof. Questions range from how much you enjoy receiving flowers and the frequency you say “pee-pee” instead of penis, to how publicly affectionate you’re willing to be with your partner in a “non-gay environment.” Upon my arrival, any environment turns gay.

A Level 2 (Very Straight Acting) person is described as having “carefully crafted” actions “in a way that they never appear to be considered too fem.” This is the very essence of straight-acting: the utter calculation of every movement, every word that comes out of your discreetly dick-eating mouth. Kooky Level 6s, on the other hand, enjoy exploring their feminine side. “Most people just assume you are gay…which is just fine with you.” But not fine with the creators and patrons of this site who hold faux masculinity in the highest regard.

This isn't just me coming on here complaining about another subject, this affects the gay community greatly. People think it's right to be who they aren't and sacrifice happiness for "love"/lust" it isn't ok. Be truthful, be a lie, just be yourself.

1. Conventionally masculine. Describes a homosexual male whose behaviour resembles that of the traditional heterosexual or straight male stereotype. Often considered politically incorrect (or even homophobic) as a label, but can be used facetiously. May apply to gay males who exhibit conventional masculinity out of a genuine predisposition, as well as to those who affect it out of insecurity (sometimes to remain in the closet).

The new gay ideal isn't just to be accepted as an 'openly gay' man. We must now strive for further acceptance by being indistinguishable from our heterosexual equivalents. Rather than carve out our own identity, we ape theirs. Now, the new gay norm is the 'straight-actor' with the ultimate compliment being someone not spotting your sexuality. The 'fems' or 'queeny' guys are dismissed as out-dated stereotypes firmly on the descent, but it's a myth - they're still everywhere, no matter how much their much butcher brothers choose to deny them.

[snip]

Perhaps we secretly miss the homophobia of days gone by, and thus are more than happy to perpetuate it among ourselves, or maybe it's all those years of being ostracised which make the gay man strive to fit in.

“Straight-acting” is just one of those ridiculous phrases that has made its way into the gay community. People refer to themselves, or possible suitors, as “straight-acting” when the person displays more masculine qualities than a “stereotypical gay man.” Some people who use the term most definitely have a few internal and external insecurities towards themselves for being gay, and others have just adopted using it because it’s commonly heard being used by others. But here in lies the problem.

Stereotypes.

We can’t avoid them. Every community has at least one stereotype that goes with it. Priests, Mexicans, Blondes, Southerners, people who listen to Dave Matthews Band; the list goes on forever. There is no way to avoid the gay stereotype. It’s what people see on TV, it’s what comediennes joke about, it’s a part of pop culture, and in some ways even part of the gay civil rights movement. Hell, it’s how Lance Bass “came out” in People magazine. Calling he and his friends “SAGs” and followed up with an explanation of, “We’re just normal, typical guys. I love to watch football and drink beer.” He might as hell have said, “We ain’t no fags.”

Your turn

That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
- Gene Wolfe

"Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "