@Ren Thing - I'm not sure why that is relevant. Clearly that hasn't been working as a means to keeping PA crowd sourced so they're trying something different. I'm just not sure why there is so much animosity towards this project. Pay if you want, don't if you don't. I don't think it will make a difference in terms of funding for other kick starters besides the fact that PA brings with it a ton of eyeballs and other projects will be viewed by more people because of them.

The point is that if they did have a method to which they could solicit said funds, without offering such "rewards", then they could've done so. Furthermore, people who felt the need to contribute could've done so in that fashion.

I think part of the issue, at least for me, is the reward structure that is an inherent part of Kickstarter. When I contribute to a project, I do so at a level that I am comfortable with combined with the level of thank you for the project. Honestly, I think the rewards of PA Kickstarter are not an actual reward for contributing or are they a "thank you" for helping the project; IMO, they're insulting. I actually wouldn't have had any issue with them soliciting money if they'd done it on their own through PayPal and begging on their homepage. *shrug*

Wow, people who think PA are doing the wrong thing think so really hard.

I've got no problem with it. Yes, PA are the big boys with an established business, but so was Double Fine, inXile, and several other high-profile projects of the last few months. Those developers wanted to do something different, so does PA. It's not technically what Kickstarter is for, but Kickstarter are the ones who approve or disapprove projects, so if they say it's fine then it's fine.

Also, these big projects don't take money from the little ones. That's not how it works. If you've been tracking things in the gaming section of Kickstarter you'll probably have noticed the funding levels seem to be dropping, mostly due to the big projects wrapping up and moving on. There are getting to be noticeably more losers than there were before among the big-ticket Kickstarters, like Retrovirus and the anemic performance of Skyjacker. It could be (easily) argued that the games that pulled in the cash were point & click adventure and RPG, but there's still overall less funding going on, and having a few big engines like PA and that Ouya gaming console can only help increase traffic.

Also, the $1 reward levels are generally little more than thanks or something equally odd. The neat-looking Rubicon offered to not mail the donator a bobcat at the $4 level. As is usual for this kind of thing, if you don't want to participate, it's simply a matter of not participating. Those that want to will, and they'll have fun doing it.

PayPal really isn't an option for the kinds of money we're talking here, they're pretty rubbish at just closing things down if they decide there's too much cash moving too quickly.

Anyway, there's an article about this in Business Week now, so if this does work for PA expect many more to follow.

The Ouya console is pretty interesting actually, cause that one strikes me that they're going to need waaaay more cash than they're asking for. There's a piece by Ben Kucera about it, and how it's a lot more suspect than it at first appears.

Responding to this week’s furore surrounding Penny Arcade’s decision to raise money through Kickstarter, Barnden maintained that crowdfunding might be controversial, but it is here to stay. “I don’t think there should be any limitations on what Kickstarter is used for," he said. "There’s bound to be an amount of fatigue – and we saw some of that with ours to a certain extent – but we saw the success that other games had had and thought we better get in there now. I don’t think that there’s any worry about this going away, but I do think people are going to have to have a damn good pitch.”

I've got no problem with it. Yes, PA are the big boys with an established business, but so was Double Fine, inXile, and several other high-profile projects of the last few months. Those developers wanted to do something different, so does PA. It's not technically what Kickstarter is for, but Kickstarter are the ones who approve or disapprove projects, so if they say it's fine then it's fine.

All those people and corporations had concrete creative projects they were attempting to get funded (The DFA game, Wasteland 2 etc.), which would not get funding otherwise. Penny Arcade's kickstarter is not about a creative project, and they already have funding. It's a business venture that amounts to little more than "pay my rent for a year, so that I'll maybe continue doing what I've already been doing for massive profits the last twelve years". Which would be fine for a pledge drive on their own site, but it's not what Kickstarter is for. Kickstarter is for funding individual projects.

The fact that Kickstarter as a corporation is endoursing this is just proof that if you have money and reputation, then the rules don't matter. It's flat out corruption of the Kickstarter system. If Kickstarter openly changed their guidelines and rules, then that would have been more acceptable. But no, they're just making an exception because it's profitable in the short-term.

I don't want to start screaming about the decline of the Kickstarter Empire, but this is certainly giving me second-thoughts about donating to projects via Kickstarter, if a lying, cheating corporation gets 5% of my donations.

...But they've already announced TWO projects (i.e. new Lookouts and new Automata) that they are saying would be unfeasible without this funding. Seemingly they have others as well which have not been announced yet. That is what I'm looking forward to and paying for.

"pay my rent for a year, so that I'll maybe continue doing what I've already been doing for massive profits the last twelve years".

I feel it's more like, "pay my rent for a year so I don't have to be a stooge for the companies who pay my rent now. Instead, I can be YOUR stooge and do the projects that you would rather see."

So if you're arguing that it's not for a specific project, I suppose you're right. It looks more like they are asking for funding for a year rife with otherwise impossible projects...

If PA had created the Kickstarter page with an explicate plan to redesign and relaunch the website and explain how they hope to expand their service (full comic RSS for example) I think there wouldn't be a problem.

But given how information has come in drips and drabs and largely as a response to direct questioning; given the utter nonsense of the rewards offered and given that (to paraphrase oddbill from the old thread) they had more mature business options available to them...

I can't help but view this as opportunistic because it reads, to me, as if they started by seeing the cool new fundraising tool and wanted to rewrite history (what if we had this at the start) and... hate to say but can't help but feel that they created the page almost with a sense of entitlement.

There's a part of me that thinks good luck to them - but then, what I don't get is - if this Kickstarter is to free them from their corporate masters for one year - what are they going to do the following year? Are they going to launch a Kickstarter PA 2014 page? Will they keep giving Amazon $100000+ for administration purposes? They seem happy to accept large sums of money off Kickstarter, I'd imagine future pledges will be taken more directly - which they could do now if they wanted to.

I know they can go back to advertisers at any time in the future but wouldn't that be a backwards move if their intentions are true?

They’re getting mainstream publicity from this I suppose – and I don’t want to be cynical but… the whole thing is just a little to silly not to be.

I've had many discussions, with many people regarding the topic of PA and Kickstarter. I feel like I can summarise my opinion in the following: I don't think they announced it or tackled it in the right way, but it's a noble goal to get your fan-base to try and help you fundamentally change the way your business is run.

If you want a wordier version of what I think, you should probably look here, I'm happy to discuss it with anyone. What I'm not happy with is all the people who think calling Penny Arcade a bunch of jerks "just because" (mostly on my Twitter feed) is a credible argument. It isn't.

Many moons ago I was on Duotrope.com and saw a listing which, upon first viewing, left me with a level of dubiousness that I generally reserve for conversations about black helicopters. The listing was for an anthology combining the concept of erotica with the Mythos of H.P. Lovecraft.

I envisioned tentacles. Lots of tentacles. And Japanese girls' boarding schools and some combination of the two together.

Like I said, dubious.

Of course, that did not stop me from writing a story and submitting it.

What came from this listing was Cthulhurotica an anthology which I was not only to be happy to be paid to be a part of, but proud to be a part of.

Why? Because Carrie Cuinn, who I will also admit is a friend of mine (although, honestly, I didn't know she was helming Dagan Books at the time nor has our friendship guaranteed me getting into her anthologies as made evidence by the rejection letter she sent me for Fish), is an excellent, excellent editor. Combining the topics of the Mythos and erotica, an act rife with possible pitfalls and devolution into ridiculousness, she constructed a great anthology, one with quality stories that has received many positive reviews (I haven't seen one that was wholly negative to date).

What other awesome things has she done? Well, for Cthulhurotica she made it so that everyone, regardless of what the word count of their story, was paid a minimum of $25 so that we could qualify for membership with the HWA. Also, with so many small, indie presses keeping their payment schemes small (some insultingly so), she's actually worked to increase the amount of money she can pay her authors.

So, to help Dagan Books and my friend Carrie, can you please take a look at her Kickstarter? Dagan Books is a great company producing quality books, please pledge some money and help out.

ULTRASYLVANIA, my unique comic collaboration with Jeremy Saliba (Dynamite's Wheel of Time) and students from the Academy of Art in San Francisco, has been rolling out as a webcomic since May, and we've gone to Kickstarter to garner support for our first print collection. If successful, Volume 1 will ship in October.

In a nutshell: Dracula, Frankenstein's Monster, and a certain Egyptian resident don't lurk in the darkness in 19th century Europe - they're world leaders, struggling to hold their nations together amid assassination plots, romantic betrayals, and political intrigues.

The story for Volume 1 clocks in at 75 pages. This 96-page first edition will also include character designs, page roughs, early layouts, and much more, taking you behind-the-scenes and giving you an inside look at the various processes of the artists.

Check it out. See what we've accomplished. If you want to pledge, great. If not, maybe consider sharing the link about. Any and all support is welcome.

Internetting on my phone so copy paste the link: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/17393957/the-paranormals-3

We've put out 2 issues of THE PARANORMALS so far, a noir horror written by A. Diallo Jackson & illustrated by me.Digital sales have put us in the top 40 graphic novel downloads, and we're now looking to get it in stores. Actually, if you're in London you can pick up issue 2 in Orbital Comics, but THAT'S IT!

My personal favourite incentive is the PLEASE DON'T KILL ME tier, where YOU (or someone you utterly despise) will appear in the next issue and suffer a horrible violent death! Who wouldn't want that?

Illustrated by artist Darren M.A. Calvert who has provided artwork the likes of Mattel Toys, Green Ronin Publishing, Kobold Quarterly Magazine, White Wolf Games, Alderac Entertainment, and Fantasy Flight Games, the ZOMBIE SAFETY & AWARENESS COLORING/ACTIVITY BOOK will not only feature pages to color, but activities such as mazes and word-searches that will entertain and educate about the importance of zombie safety and awareness. But, the Kickstarter Project doesn’t only provide you the opportunity to get the STAY ALIVE--NOT UNDEAD: A ZOMBIE SAFETY & AWARENESS COLORING/ACTIVITY BOOK. Other reward incentives for pledging to the project include membership into the C.R.A.Z.E. Junior Police program which includes such nifty swag as personalize I.D. Cards, Certificates of Merit, Stickers, Plastic Police Badges, T-Shirts, and more.

This isn't my project, just something I really like and figured some of you may enjoy.

Innsmouth Free Press has an indie-go-go project right now for their newest anthology titled "Sword and Mythos" - combining Lovecraftian mythos with Howardian(?) sword-and-sorcery. Their previous anthologies include "Future Lovecraft", "Historical Lovecraft", and "Fungi". They also regularly put out a magazine. There's about 10 days left so check it out.

The big idea: for $3, backers get the comic, plus I’ll send an additional comic to an LCS (or other independently owned retail bookseller) of the backer’s choice. Includes shipping within the USA or to US Military bases overseas.

Lea Hernandez here!You may recall I busted my ass trying to get my vampire comedy GN THE GARLICKS funded on Kickstarter. It didn't happen, but it was wild. With Kurt (astro City) Busiek's help, I retooled the book (4 60-page volumes instead of 1 140-ish GN), lowered the goal to a hair less than half (from $40,000. to $19,000.) and relaunched----on Indiegogo:

I've got perks like $10 for an ebook and magnet, $25. for a signed book, print and magnet, $60. for a custom book with a sketch of Kurt Busiek eating a bug of your choice, and etc.

I hope if you supported THE GARLICKS before, I can count on you again. If you haven't, I hope you will this time. And please use the Like, Tweet, Share, G+ and Email buttons on the campaign page, they keep THE GARLICKS on the front page of Indiegogo's Comics page and in front of other people.