Now this may be beaten to death or a very sensitive issue for most, so I'll do my best not create trouble.

One of the only females I can actually call a friend, has a bit of an issue with the guys, always has. She's always been a little heavier, but she's an amazing person and beautiful in her own right. Over the years she's been labeled as the "fun to f*ck, more fun to ditch," type of girl by the guys she's attracted to. She loves the "underwear model" type of guy and refuses to look elsewhere even though those guys have numerous more options. She says she's tired of just being the fat girl who's good enough to sleep with, but never good enough to date.

My question is, how do I motivate her to either; workout and change her body, or instill a sense of self worth in her so she doesn't take the bullshit? Like I said, she's an amazing person and is actually quite cute, she just tends to pick shallow losers.

This is the problem when trying to date outside one's league of attractiveness.

When guys try to date girls that are hotter than what they should generally be able to get, the girls just say "uhmm.. no! see ya!"

But when a girl tries to date a guy that outside of her level of attractiveness, the guy will probably say "sure baby, I'll take you for a spin"... and then do the fuck n' dump.

So in a way the girl gets led on a little more because let's face it - when it comes to sex, guys are a little less discriminating if it's being offered up to them on a silver platter.

There are cases where things can work, obviously - people are attracted to different things, but in general if she's trying to land a Calvin Klein model she's going to need be somewhat in his league if she wants it to be more than just a fuckbuddy situation.

I'm not sure how to motivate her because she might just be at the weight she's happy at or most comfortable with. If that's the case then it's a matter of setting her sights lower and going for a guy that she's more compatible with. OR working on some get rich quick scheme to become a sugar-momma to some hot stud. lol

I guess you could try working out with her, suggesting more physical-based activities when you hang out, or maybe making some suggestions when it comes to diet. If she's a big drinker, alcohol calories can really creep up on a woman's weight in a fast way. There's low-cal alcohols out there that she might want to pick for when she parties.

Otherwise, I dunno... it's hard to reroute who she's attracted to. Because these guys are having sex with her, she won't be able to understand why she needs to date guys a little lower on the hotness totem pole. She might have to learn and figure that one out on her own - either she'll get sick of chasing these guys or she'll reach an age where she'll be more open to sacrificing on looks and going for 'the total package' if she wants a real relationship or to settle down.

Now this may be beaten to death or a very sensitive issue for most, so I'll do my best not create trouble.

One of the only females I can actually call a friend, has a bit of an issue with the guys, always has. She's always been a little heavier, but she's an amazing person and beautiful in her own right. Over the years she's been labeled as the "fun to f*ck, more fun to ditch," type of girl by the guys she's attracted to. She loves the "underwear model" type of guy and refuses to look elsewhere even though those guys have numerous more options. She says she's tired of just being the fat girl who's good enough to sleep with, but never good enough to date.

My question is, how do I motivate her to either; workout and change her body, or instill a sense of self worth in her so she doesn't take the bullshit? Like I said, she's an amazing person and is actually quite cute, she just tends to pick shallow losers.

In my opinion, she's very lucky they have sex with her. Some of us are so fat nobody wants to do it with with us whether we've managed to lose four stone or not. She may also just be in the habit of moaning about it, and be in that mindset, rather than actually being seriously upset by it. Some people are happier moaning than not.

Sometimes, there comes a point with our moaning friends where we just have to look them straight in the eye and say, "Moaning about this is not going to change anything. I can either listen to you incessantly and nothing will change, or I can help you do something about it. Which do you want to do, because I am more than happy to work through this with you, but moaning and no action is not going to solve it."

I would also ask the question, why isn't she good enough to date? Is it her attitude, as opposed to her looks? There's a difference. If she loves the underwear mdoel types, it says to me that she is probably quite shallow herself, and therefore shouldn't be too upset when others overlook her in favour of a different kind of personality. Why is she not good enough to date? Is it really her looks? Is it that she has overly idealistic expectations? Is it that she doesn't have opportunity to get to know people who care about the inside too?

What bullshit is she taking? People saying cruel things to her? Or is it that she thinks cruel things about herself. It's hard to know what you mean, I'm afraid. If she picks shallow losers, maybe pointing that out to her, and asking her why that is, would help? Maybe working with her on how she takes being dumped would help too. Does she go off on one and throw a strop? Does she scream in the street? Does she hide away eating icecream? Without knowing more about her, it's hard to really comment.

I'd say be straight (in a kind way) with her and give her an option to either hear what you have to say to her that you hope will help because you care about her, or to be clear with you if she wants to carry on as she is.

Dancing_Doll, I've seen posts before about "leagues of attractiveness" and "able to get." Is that a physical thing only? Because it leaves the Ugly people out in the cold, and no wonder we're (un)fucking miserable.

Believe me, I've tried it all. I don't know what else to try. These guys talk down to her and call her fat and other nasty names. She just takes it and relishes in the fact that she "can't" things. Then again she never really puts the effort in and absolutely refuses to date guys lower than what she's used to. Believe me, she looks at guys like me as a 3 out of 10 on her hotness scale.

Dancing_Doll, I've seen posts before about "leagues of attractiveness" and "able to get." Is that a physical thing only? Because it leaves the Ugly people out in the cold, and no wonder we're (un)fucking miserable. [/color]

LOL.. no, it totally doesn't mean that anyone should be miserable! It just means that if someone is a 5 out of 10, they shouldn't only be willing to date the 9 out of 10s. I see that happen a lot and then they complain about it, when it's quite probable that if they were open to the 4-7 range of looks, they would find a great partner.

If someone is rich/powerful, they're likely able to date people that are commonly seen as more attractive than them (eg. rich guys and trophy wives) but otherwise I just think people have to be realistic about their expectations. Not everyone is going to get the underwear models into a committed relationship. In fact, most of us aren't. lol

I don't understand why people can't just be people, and seen as people. I don't get all the labels and stuff. You meet a person, you like/don't like them, you fancy them/don't fancy them. I don't get it. The leagues and scales thing is like saying, "Don't even bother to get to know that person, they won't even talk to you because you're a 2 and they're a 9." That makes us both losers.

Volition, it sounds to me as if your friend might be one of those people who is happy being unhappy. You can try all you like to try and make things better for her, but only she can do anything about it. I've had many friends like that (I look at one in the mirror every day and have to kick her ass, and it's hard work). Some people just don't want to change. Worse than sad for them, it's annoying and sad for you. But it may be something you have to come to terms with.

[color=green]I don't understand why people can't just be people, and seen as people. I don't get all the labels and stuff. You meet a person, you like/don't like them, you fancy them/don't fancy them. I don't get it. The leagues and scales thing is like saying, "Don't even bother to get to know that person, they won't even talk to you because you're a 2 and they're a 9." That makes us both losers.

People are attracted to different things and the general rule isn't *always* the case, but it has been so far as I've seen it in the world. It's often more than just looks though. A very fit and active person is probably going to be more compatible with another fit and active person - or their lifestyles will mesh better. Personality accounts for a lot when it comes to long term relationships, but attraction is what it is - you can't ignore physical attraction when it comes to dating and mating. Friendship is a whole other thing though - personality almost always trumps looks there.

To Volition - it sounds like this girl has really low self-esteem if she's letting these guys use and demean her that way. I think some guys can be asses just because they can. As in thinking they can treat a girl like absolute shit and then laugh to their buddies about it when she just eats it up and still keeps chasing them. If they're calling her fat to her face, that would send most girls running for the door... not sure why she's sticking around. She has far more series issues going on than her weight, in my opinion.

It really has fuck all to do with weight. That's only a factor. For her, and her self-esteem.

Did she ever think about NOT putting out? Seriously, close your legs honey and let them chase you instead of the other way around.They KNOW she's an easy lay and they don't see her as a person.I've seen this scenario time and time again while tending bar.She's the "fail safe fuck".If all else fails for these guys picking up a girl in the bar, they KNOW she'll put out and they can leave when they're done.

Joined: 4/15/2011Posts: 7,543Location: Soaking up the sun, United States

TheDevilsWeakness wrote:

I hate to say it... but...

It really has fuck all to do with weight. That's only a factor. For her, and her self-esteem.

Did she ever think about NOT putting out? Seriously, close your legs honey and let them chase you instead of the other way around.They KNOW she's an easy lay and they don't see her as a person.I've seen this scenario time and time again while tending bar.She's the "fail safe fuck".If all else fails for these guys picking up a girl in the bar, they KNOW she'll put out and they can leave when they're done.

^^^This^^^ Once apon a time, I would have agreed with DD(and for the record, I think this might be about the first time in a forum post she hasn't said exactly what I wanted, but better). However, the past couple years I have discovered that really it comes down to a confidence thing. A girl who is confident can do so much better than one who is not. I have seen it work over and over. If you project confidence in yourself, it will inspire others to see it in you!

Confidence and self-esteem is important and it would go a long way with this girl.

But... what we're saying is - when you have the confidence and self-esteem, you will be able to get, date and marry that super hot guy that you've been looking for. But I see this as rewarding her flawed logic. This girl is ignoring anyone who is less than an 9 or 10. So if she is currently average looking, why can't she be open to dating an average looking guy? Why does it have to be the underwear model?

There are probably plenty of great guys that she's passing over because she has unrealistic expectations. So what do we say to those average looking guys then - don't worry, as long as you improve your confidence, you will get a really hot girl, too.

So in this whole scenario, everyone is chasing the hottest people - both the other hot people and the average to below average looking people who think they can land them as long as they have major confidence and personality. Unfortunately there are just not enough hot people to go around of both genders... lol... my feeling is - just be realistic.

Everyone has 'a range' but if people are so shallow as to only want to date those perfect 10s no matter what they look like, then there's going to be a whole lot of unhappy single people in the world that are busy chasing 'the dream' instead of looking around them and being more open.

I think what it boils down to is that people can't change what they like, but time has a way of changing what's acceptable and people have a habit of growing out of the childish belief that every want is a need. This girl is wanty, not needy. The guys she wants can't change what they like either, and, like her, they will try to get what they want, but they will drink or wait as the field is whittled down and eventually get some of what they are genetically and socially programmed to get. Call it trim or tail or whatever you want, a stiff dick has no conscience.

This is why some percentage of both genders leave the "meat market scene" and use online dating services or other alternatives. Anybody can eventually find somebody there, as long as they don't tie there own self-esteem to the "hotness" of the person they attract and as long as they can be content with people who attract them on something other than the surface layer.My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust

Believe me, I've tried it all. I don't know what else to try. These guys talk down to her and call her fat and other nasty names. She just takes it and relishes in the fact that she "can't" things. Then again she never really puts the effort in and absolutely refuses to date guys lower than what she's used to. Believe me, she looks at guys like me as a 3 out of 10 on her hotness scale.

I think its really sweet that you care so much about her and it sound like a really great friend.

Unfortunately no matter how hard you try to convince her that its a good idea to lose a little weight, if her minds not in it, it just not going to work. It has to come from her, she has to want to change.

All you can really do is continue being a good friend, and hope that one day she meets someone that will change her view on what's important when it comes to choosing men.

Believe me, I've tried it all. I don't know what else to try. These guys talk down to her and call her fat and other nasty names. She just takes it and relishes in the fact that she "can't" things. Then again she never really puts the effort in and absolutely refuses to date guys lower than what she's used to. Believe me, she looks at guys like me as a 3 out of 10 on her hotness scale.

For every kind, supportive word you say to her she'll be telling herself a hundred negative ones. You can't compete with that.

We get the partners we think we deserve. She doesn't feel very good about herself so she's attracted to men who treat her badly because it confirms everything she believes about herself.

I think the best thing you can do is invite her to spend time with you, have conversations with her that don't revolve around men or relationships. I wouldn't point out her problems with men or try to change that part of her life. There's really not a lot you can do to help there. I'd concentrate on building on the positives instead of attempting to fix the negatives.

As others have mentioned, you're a good friend. It's great that you're trying to help her.

Joined: 8/16/2009Posts: 6,720Location: this side of bliss..., United States

let me start by saying that you are a great friend! i hope she realizes how blessed she is to have you in her life. ok, so onto your question. i don't think her weight plays a major factor in this. sounds like the men she chooses would pick on anything they saw as a sign of weakness.

it seems to me that she is used to this treatment and is suffering from low self esteem. HOWEVER, she doesn't see it that way. she's with the type she wants and figures if they want her, she's doing something right. i would ask her how she would feel if you were with a girl who treated you the way she's being treated. then ask her to follow her own advice.

I agree with the people who've said that the issue is nothing to do with weight or looks...

I have a friend whom I've known since high school. She is gorgeous, I mean, absolutely stunning and could have any man she wanted, really. She is very overweight and lacking in confidence and only chooses guys who are "out of her league". By that, I do not mean anything to do with looks, not at all and to be honest, I think the 'league' thing is a crock. Sure, we're attracted to people with whom we have a level of compatibility; mental. physical, emotional, energetic, spiritual... whatever.

My friend is what you would call a "self-saboteur". Her tendency is to only go for guys who (when I said 'out of her league' I meant) are unavailable to her.. That could be distance (geographical), fucked up guys with whom there's no chance of a relationship, guys already involved... you get the picture? It doesn't matter what the guy looks like, if she has 'chosen' him, there is NO way a relationship is going to work... She's simply not attracting anyone with whom there is any chance of anything good... (to be honest, to me, as her friend, that's a relief. I mean, I'd hate to see her get into a thing with any of these guys... Although of course, I would love to see her in a happy relationship)

I think that it comes down to the laws of attraction: The law of attraction is essentially a belief or theory, that "like attracts like," and that by focusing on positive or negative thoughts, one can bring about positive or negative results.

As a rule, people tend to be attracted to others who are similar in some ways to themselves, namely looks, so I can see your point, DD. The thing is, we can be attracted to people on many other levels than purely looks. I mean, here online, we see that happen every day, don't we? You become attracted to someone through their words and stuff... For most people, yes, looks are the initial hook, but equally for most people, it is just that, once contact has been established, there are more important things than that. Like seeing something you like in a shop window, but going inside and finding it empty...

Personally, I wouldn't have said that I had a 'type' although I would say that I always 'punched above my weight'. I'm not stunningly attractive, I mean, I'm not bad either, but I always had a tendency to attract really handsome, well-built guys, but I never felt that there was an issue with that...

My friend and I think also your friend, Volition, is setting herself unrealistic ideals. I would hazard a guess that even if she were to decide to pursue a 'plainer' man, she still would not find one... Her problems are nothing to do with looks, but rather what's going on in her own head...

I wish I had more time to write a proper response, but I'm going to have to leave it here for now...

I hope your friend finds some happiness. Rather than the gym and trying to physically change her, I'd suggest that you be a good friend and find out the things that DO make her happy, rather than what doesn't...

Joined: 8/14/2009Posts: 5,827Location: The Citadel of my mind , United States

Queen Latifah. This is a woman who has more than a couple of extra pounds yet she still scores high on the hotness scale. Why is that? It's because she oozes self confidence and she takes care of herself.

On the other hand I've known many slim and attractive women who have fallen into the fuck and dump category simply because they chose the wrong hot guy over and over again.

Is it easier to land a classically sexy partner if you are in good shape? Certainly, but if a woman has a confident smile and spends the time to maximize what she's got, being heavy is not a deal killer. Becoming convinced she is worthless is a sure fire way to become worthless though.

I don't agree that her weight and looks are not part of the issue, because her self-image is critical to her self-esteem and her self-image includes her appearance. That's because so much emphasis is put on looks, especially during our younger years, in our society. Also, the looks of the men she tries to attract is important to her for some reason. It could be that she would rather be fucked and dumped by a 9 or 10 than by a 5 or 6 (which she might feel would happen and she would not want to face that reality).

One way to help build someone else's self esteem is to help them have successes in other areas of their life. Successes in careers, hobbies, projects, education, etc. build self-worth.My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust

When I first read the original post I felt bad for this woman. But after thinking about it for a while I really dont feel bad for her because she is letting this happen. She was described as "fun to fuck, more fun to ditch" type of girl, "the fat girl who is easy". She goes out with these hot guys who just want to fuck her and then they call her fat. But then when they call her again she is ready for round 2. Im sorry but that is PATHETIC!!!

She needs to have some self-respect and tell these guys to FUCK OFF!! She sets her sights on 10's and will only go with hot guys and then says "she is good enough to fuck but to good enough to date". Meanwhile she wont date a 6 or a 7 who may want her for her a,d not an easy lay. So she is treating the 6/7 the same way she is being treated. I know some very beautiful women who are the same way. They let these guys fuck them and treat them like shit beacsue they have no self-respect. And I also know several women who are overweight but also very beautiful and confident and they have no problem getting hot guys to DATE them beacuse of personality and confidence and not because they are easy fucks!!

To the OP, you seem like you are a good friend to her but there is only so much you can do. She has to fix herself and it seems obvious in her mind there isnt anything wrong with her, its everyone else who has the problems.

I am sorry if I sound harsh and uncaring, but people need to look in the mirror before they blame everything bad that happens to them on someone else!!

When I first read the original post I felt bad for this woman. But after thinking about it for a while I really dont feel bad for her because she is letting this happen. She was described as "fun to fuck, more fun to ditch" type of girl, "the fat girl who is easy". She goes out with these hot guys who just want to fuck her and then they call her fat. But then when they call her again she is ready for round 2. Im sorry but that is PATHETIC!!!

She needs to have some self-respect and tell these guys to FUCK OFF!! She sets her sights on 10's and will only go with hot guys and then says "she is good enough to fuck but to good enough to date". Meanwhile she wont date a 6 or a 7 who may want her for her a,d not an easy lay. So she is treating the 6/7 the same way she is being treated. I know some very beautiful women who are the same way. They let these guys fuck them and treat them like shit beacsue they have no self-respect. And I also know several women who are overweight but also very beautiful and confident and they have no problem getting hot guys to DATE them beacuse of personality and confidence and not because they are easy fucks!!

To the OP, you seem like you are a good friend to her but there is only so much you can do. She has to fix herself and it seems obvious in her mind there isnt anything wrong with her, its everyone else who has the problems.

I am sorry if I sound harsh and uncaring, but people need to look in the mirror before they blame everything bad that happens to them on someone else!!

I am agreeing with you fully on this one.Teased and Tormented -My very first story and competition entry is now up!

I find this thread interesting and intend to come back and read again when I'm not as tired.

As some one who is overweight and I think plain as can be, I say your friend is lucky to find someone to sleep with her. Add extreme shyness in someways to my personality, I've never been asked out my whole life!!

Today really tried my patience. I took a lot of the advice given here and applied it. I mentioned that maybe she should try dating other gentlemen outside of her "norm" and she basically laughed in my face. She doesn't think she should have to settle for guys such as myself when she can get better looking guys right then and there. I told her that she's always going to be looked at as the easy fat girl who puts out and she damn near lost her cool. Meh, not sure how to go about this thing, but I've done my part.

Believe me, I've tried it all. I don't know what else to try. These guys talk down to her and call her fat and other nasty names. She just takes it and relishes in the fact that she "can't" things. Then again she never really puts the effort in and absolutely refuses to date guys lower than what she's used to. Believe me, she looks at guys like me as a 3 out of 10 on her hotness scale.

Well if you've tried it all, seems to me like your job is done. You cannot change a zebra's stripes, and pressing an overtly compressed point is not going to do the trick if it has not already. In fact, it might just annoy her. If she's living with a pessimistic outlook on life with the whole "I can't" mentality, the apple won't fall too far from the tree. She has to genuinely want something in order to fix things for herself. I find it admirable that you continue to be so supportive of this friend, but you shouldn't have to carry the burden of promoting this lifestyle change. She may say she wants this but that's like an overweight person sounding like a broken record saying "I want to lose weight". A thought without action will not reap results! Stop trying so hard to fix her life, you are merely her friend.. NOT her life coach or therapist.Click > here < to read my first feature story, Techno Aphrodite by Piquet!

Today really tried my patience. I took a lot of the advice given here and applied it. I mentioned that maybe she should try dating other gentlemen outside of her "norm" and she basically laughed in my face. She doesn't think she should have to settle for guys such as myself when she can get better looking guys right then and there. I told her that she's always going to be looked at as the easy fat girl who puts out and she damn near lost her cool. Meh, not sure how to go about this thing, but I've done my part.

She doesn't deserve to have you as her friend.

Like I said, sometimes we just have to stand back and say, "It's your choice, either I can support you whilst you do something about this, or you can carry on as you are." I rarely talk to certain friends these days, as they just do the same thing over again, ask for advice, completely ignore it, and then come crying back when it happens again. And again.

It's frustrating, I know. But just as you let her make her own decisions, now decide how you will deal with her immovable stance on this situation. It might be you see her less, or just tell her straight you don't want to hear about it unless she wants to make a change, or just put up with something about her that won't change. It boils down to how much you care about her, and how strong your friendship is, really.

And I also think that if she is willing not even to consider somebody who cares so much for her welfare, and dating somebody like you, then forgive me, but she is stupid indeed.

Like I said, sometimes we just have to stand back and say, "It's your choice, either I can support you whilst you do something about this, or you can carry on as you are." I rarely talk to certain friends these days, as they just do the same thing over again, ask for advice, completely ignore it, and then come crying back when it happens again. And again.

It's frustrating, I know. But just as you let her make her own decisions, now decide how you will deal with her immovable stance on this situation. It might be you see her less, or just tell her straight you don't want to hear about it unless she wants to make a change, or just put up with something about her that won't change. It boils down to how much you care about her, and how strong your friendship is, really.

And I also think that if she is willing not even to consider somebody who cares so much for her welfare, and dating somebody like you, then forgive me, but she is stupid indeed.

Joined: 2/24/2012Posts: 255Location: Where I need to be right now, United States

Seriously? No matter which side of the argument you think fits this situation, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy by your own actions.. this idea that people should stay in their own category of hotness is a load of crap.. Shylass has it right.. everyone should just be themselves with the expectation that happiness is where you find it.. it is shallow indeed to think that looks alone is all it takes for some of you to go to bed.. at some point you're going to have to engage in actual conversation and what looked like a 9 when you took your clothes off suddenly becomes a 4.. anyways.. bless those of us who are outside the circle and dare to put a foot in.. don't give up on your friend Volition.. she might surprise you..

You can't man, the only person she can change for, or should try to change for is herself. Should do it because she wants to and not try to do it to be with some guy. The second she needs to do is get over this whole wanting to date only one kind of guy thing. Like you said they all treat her the same freaken way so she's got to pull her head out of her ass and look else where. Problem is, no matter how close you are to her, or how amazing a person she might be, it will never change for her unless she figures out that she should try something new for herself.

Joined: 8/14/2009Posts: 5,827Location: The Citadel of my mind , United States

Warlock wrote:

Seriously? No matter which side of the argument you think fits this situation, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy by your own actions.. this idea that people should stay in their own category of hotness is a load of crap.. Shylass has it right.. everyone should just be themselves with the expectation that happiness is where you find it.. it is shallow indeed to think that looks alone is all it takes for some of you to go to bed.. at some point you're going to have to engage in actual conversation and what looked like a 9 when you took your clothes off suddenly becomes a 4.. anyways.. bless those of us who are outside the circle and dare to put a foot in.. don't give up on your friend Volition.. she might surprise you..

Ok this is what I think.... I have read that you have tried being nice to her and helping her understand well that is not working Say it bold look her in the eyes and tell her the truth. I would say this " look you like underwear models with tight hard bodies and godly features but gues what they don't like u, they fuck u and dump you. U have high standards that they r not healthy. U are delusional if you think they will like more of u other than a quick fuck models have higher standards than you and belive me you would b a 2 in their hot scale, its time you start to come down from the high horse that u think u can ride." That's what I would say if she was my frien. Sometimes saing the truth helps more good luck

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