Big Red Flix 37: The Cabin In The Woods (Part 1)

It’s fall so Dave, Jitterbug and Yoshifett get into the season with some satirical horror from TheCabin In The Woods. This is part one of three so sit back and relax as the Flix crew covers from how much they like Bradley Whitford to how the movie should have ended. Check back on BRB next week for part 2!

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Cory

The only thing with your ending Jitterbug is that scene where they get the phone call would have to change slightly. They were freaking out that the fool hadn’t died before the virgin as told by the man upstairs (whoever that was).

The two guys knew what role every player would fill even, so it would have been weird if they freaked out over who dies first only to see at the end that it would have been completely fine had the girl died.

Darkwonders, I think you’re assuming that the “man upstairs” was a direct line to the Old Gods. I think the “man upstairs” refers to Sigorney Weaver, and it’s reasonable to assume that she had mistakenly set up the girl as the virgin since, in her own words, it doesn’t really matter anyhow. But then, if the guy is actually a virgin, then the twist is that the Old Gods are appeased by the way it plays out because of it. Thus, it wouldn’t be problematic that Weaver didn’t see it that way, since it’s never been done that way before. I think it works so well that I would be willing to bet the script was written with that as the ending. It is shocking to me that it doesn’t end like that.

Cory said
The only thing with your ending Jitterbug is that scene where they get the phone call would have to change slightly. They were freaking out that the fool hadn’t died before the virgin as told by the man upstairs (whoever that was).

The two guys knew what role every player would fill even, so it would have been weird if they freaked out over who dies first only to see at the end that it would have been completely fine had the girl died.

Exactly, especially because of lines like the one where Richard Jenkins tells Dana to “kill him”, it would be a lot more complicated then just changing the ending to make it work. There’s no reasonable way for them to convince us that these sacrificial roles are suddenly interchangeable at the end of the movie, besides there’s no point in the rest of the movie where Dana could fit the Fool role. And after their heart-to-heart, I would’ve totally felt ripped off because they make the stoner do something malicious that doesn’t fit his character just so that they can squeeze in another twist at the end.

I rarely offer this level of praise to any movie, especially one so recent, but I pretty much think that every aspect of this movie was done perfectly. The humor was awesome and most of the jokes would have made me laugh even if this movie was trying to be serious. The bloodbath in the elevator lobby made me laugh because it was so ridiculous, but at the same time, I enjoyed being very disturbed by it. The giant hand looked a little goofy, and I would have liked to have seen the ancients ripping up each sacrificial city throughout the credits, though I admit this probably would have looked kinda cheap. Other than that, PERFECT! Thank you guys for BKRing this flick and also those guys on twitter for suggesting it, otherwise I most likely would have never thought twice about watching this awesome movie.

Jitterbug said
I think it works so well that I would be willing to bet the script was written with that as the ending. It is shocking to me that it doesn’t end like that.

It is shocking to me that you can be convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt of the superiority of your own ending. It works so well, you would only have to change 30 different aspects throughout the movie for it to make sense. I can’t see anything “reasonable” about Sigourney making a very avoidable mistake that would mean the END OF HUMANITY. “We work with what we got” says that the “virgin” doesn’t literally have to be untouched, just like the “scholar” doesn’t have to have won a Nobel prize, or that the “fool” needs to be wearing a jester’s hat…I think it was meant to be a stupid joke anyhow. But the red phone scene tells the audience that they are dead serious about the roles. Suddenly, there’s this completely ridiculous and unnecessary plot twist with the stoner that doesn’t fit his character in the slightest, and the audience says “oh, they were so strict with the roles throughout the last 30 minutes of the movie, but I could see that the ancient doesn’t give a damn about the rules, AS LONG AS SOMEONE’S A VIRGIN AT THE END”??? There’s NO WAY that this was the original ending! I would love for you to prove me wrong. I won’t agree that it’s the best ending, but if you can track down this mysterious lost script and can show us that the original ending actually was anywhere close to what you’re going on about, I will happily eat my hat!

Also, I think that if he ended up killing the girl in the end, that would have been completely out of character for him. I know you like the idea that everyone switched roles throughout the entire movie, but the stoner had already switched out of his fool role. His weed ended up making him immune to all the drugs they were pumping into the cabin. He was the one that bested the zombie and faked his death. He was the one that sabotaged the cave exploding, and he was the one that figured out what was really going on.

I say he already changed his role into true scholar and was able to outsmart the organization. To have him change to be the virgin at the end would just have felt out of place. He was set up from the beginning to what humanity has become. He welcomed the destruction. And considering his personal weed made him immune to the drugs affecting everyone else, he was the only one that didn’t change based on the people manipulating him. He changed on his own simply because he was the true scholar, and they didn’t account for that.

What jars me about the turn the movie took is that everything that was laid out in the beginning of the movie was thrown away at the end. What’s the point of the elaborate ways to perform the sacrifice when simply shooting the people in the proper order would appease the old ones? After the zombies failed to kill the stoner, the organization didn’t even care about offing him by a horror means. They were just going to kill him. Honestly, I don’t think that would have appeased the gods. To simply shoot the person to appease the gods would have been way more out of place, which is ultimately why I think your ending wouldn’t work, Jitterbug.

Also, that one chick said youth was needed to appease the gods. Are they trying to tell me that not one single person in that organization was young enough to appease the gods? Everyone got slaughtered by all the horror monsters. At no point during the movie was it stated that those 5 kids had to be the ones to be the sacrifice. They just needed 5 young people that loosely fit the sacrifice requirement. That is also another reason why by the time the stoner gets his way into the underground lair, that the organization has already failed. Nothing from that point on would have appeased the gods as it wasn’t done in the traditional horror way.

They could have ended the movie with the guy killing the girl and stating that he’s a virgin, but only if they show it doesn’t work. Then when he realizes that it didn’t work, he goes “oh F***…” and the rock bursts up, killing him. cut to black. No hand. No showing what the old gods look like. And then it comes full circle where he is the fool, scholar, and virgin.

Really? Now I’m stunned! It is something that seems to happen quite often, I’m surprised you haven’t noticed yet. But as this is the second time you’ve responded to one of my posts in practically the exact same fashion, I think you’re missing the point of the forums. Disagreements occur pretty frequently and though you might have expected otherwise, the forum is not your personal, digital glory hole where you can go for a daily fix of my acknowledgment. Thanks to your sarcastic, snooty little quip, it should now be clear to all just how narrow-minded you are when it comes to your own “creative” opinions and how bizarrely desperate you are for everyone to agree with them. If you’ve already determined this to be your default way of responding to any of my posts that aren’t gushing over how right you always are, then for future reference, please see the line below:

BELIEVE IT, BABY! Because I’ve yet to agree with a single word of the b.s. you spout on Flix.

@ Darkwonders – On the flip side though, the way this movie ends is with the final two characters being complicit with the eradication of the entire human race. Neither of them had a storyline that justifies this bizarre decision. Seconds before, the girl had realized that if she didn’t kill the stoner then the world would end. I understand that you disagree with my version, and that’s fine, but I’d contend that the ending the movie gives us doesn’t work either because these two had been fighting to save their lives, but then just decide to F*** it and let the whole world die – including them. If the stoner hadn’t killed her like I said, then he should’ve at least turned the gun on himself as a self-sacrifice to save the world. Seriously, the idea that they let the entire world perish because they don’t have the willpower to commit suicide is just a really shoddy way to end it. All in all, I loved the movie, but the ending left me cold.

@ ZS – Go ahead and continue to frequent the forums, and spew all the Jitterbug hate you want. I really don’t care. You’ve already shown me that you’re the type of person that takes great pride in achieving hollow internet victory points, and I don’t have any interest in engaging that type of conversation. I love having rational, fun debates, but you seem to have a lot of self-worth tied up in forums and internet chatter. You’ve been clear that it doesn’t matter what I say, you’ll take the opposite side and scream about how stupid I am. That’s fine, but don’t expect me to respond to your debates.

@Jitterbug Oh I know the regular ending isn’t that good. I’m just saying it’s more complicated than that. The whole first part of the movie is about this need to have an elaborate and gruesome way to kill the sacrifices. Simply shooting them shouldn’t work. Otherwise all the organization would have to do is get 5 sacrifices, and just shoot them. While your way is on the right track, I don’t think it should end with the world being saved just cause the girl was shot by the stoner. The old gods have a set way that they will be pacified. Completely ignoring that doesn’t fit with the movie. It would have been better if one had shot the other, and then realized that it didn’t help and then off themselves.

@DK, That’s a good point. However, the only real problem with that is Weaver spends her final moments telling them that shooting the stoner will end it. So, by the logic of the person supposedly in charge, just shooting him would be fine. Her appeal to the girl to shoot the stoner sets up the twist that the stoner was the virgin all along, and that when he then turns on the girl it appeases the Old Gods. I agree that the movie doesn’t follow it’s own rules there at the end, but I would still contend that the stoner turning on the girl and saying, “Screw that, I’m not dying. I’m still a virigin.” would at least provide an “Oh S**t!” moment for the ending.

I think the filmmakers felt it was necessary to provide some sort of “Old World God” payoff there at the end, and even the characters mention it by saying that it would’ve been cool to see them. That’s almost like the filmmaker breaking the fourth wall and speaking to us as if to say, “Do you want to see them?” Then we get that payoff. However, I think you could’ve still shown the Old World Gods (we discussed this on the show, so I’m just repeating myself here) as if they were climbing up, but then are appeased and go back down again. We would’ve still seen them without needing to end the movie with a world wide catastrophe caused by these characters’ inability to do the right thing.

All in all, I really enjoyed the movie. It’s not perfect, and I was disappointed in the ending, but it’s still a definite recommend. I’ll be buying this in the future, and will happily watch it many more times. That’s pretty much the best compliment anyone can give a movie!

My emphatic praising of this movie should be proof enough that my decision to disagree with you is based on my opinion of the movie, NOT on whatever stance you’re currently taking. Though I have admitted to disliking you and your methods because you awkwardly called me out on this, to disagree with you is not to hate you with prejudice, so stop playing the victim. I have never posted anything on these forums with the intent of instigating anything like the petty squabbles we’ve been having. That you take any instance in which I disagree with you as a direct insult is YOUR problem, which is very evident in the ID4 “discussion” we had, where (for the first time ever) I respectfully disagreed with you in my initial post, and you responded with an aggressive two post rant calling my view on the matter “stupid”. Seriously, if your memory needs refreshing, it’s there in black and white.

If any two of all the other BRB podcasters have a disagreement, I can agree with one and disagree with the other, and still feel like there was a constructive give and take between both sides. You argue with a ferocious tenacity that shows the one-sidedness with which your mind works, that you will be right no matter what, showing no leniency towards the opinoins of your co-hosts or any openness to the possibility that you might not always be right. You describe movies as “AWFUL!” or “TERRIBLE!” or “DIARRHEA!” and use phrases like “OBVIOUSLY this is the way the movie SHOULD have ended” as proof of how absolute your opinion is while insinuating contempt for those who aren’t of the same mind. You bring this kind of criticism on yourself. My posts are a way for me to convey my opinions to the BRB community, not an outright invitation to a screaming contest with you. So if you never respond to another post of mine, so that I might continue to criticize the obnoxious way in which you express yourself in peace, you’ll be doing me a huge favor. I look forward to you ignoring me till kingdom come.

@JB Well that’s what Weaver believes will end it. Every other country that was participating in it failed, even Japan. Why didn’t Japan just set the room on fire after the little girls beat the evil spirit. The entire plot line of being able to appease the gods that easily ruins why America is the final hope. It’s supposed to be about the monsters killing the sacrifices, not just the sacrifices dying. Your twist ending could still work, only if does jack squat to actual appease the old gods. Yes, for those two to be that complacent at the end grinds with what they were depicted in the rest of the movie, but so does appeasing the gods by simply shooting someone.

It is a great movie otherwise. This is probably the first movie I want to actually watch the extra features for to see all the monsters they put into the movie. I can’t wait to hear the next part of BKR when you guys get to the actual monsters.

Cory said
The whole first part of the movie is about this need to have an elaborate and gruesome way to kill the sacrifices. Simply shooting them shouldn’t work.

I agree that this alternate ending wouldn’t work, but not based on this point. They say several times throughout the movie that the sacrificial lambs need to suffer. It’s never stated that their death necessarily needs to be in a horror movie manner, so I think that just shooting the Fool at the end of the movie does technically play by the rules. If you don’t think that this should be enough to appease an ancient god, I can totally see that. But because of all the other satirical stuff that takes place in the rest of the movie, I think it fits well enough.

I gather not everyone agrees with this ending, but I can’t see how they could have done it better. It annoys me that nowadays every movie has to end on a plot twist (even though there might have already been 2 or 3 twists earlier in the movie) because they’re afraid that people won’t be happy unless they were blown away. It’s fun in some movies, but traditional storytelling does not rely on this modern tactic and for me, it doesn’t always add what it’s meant to.

I thought the suffering was only in relation to the virgin. They said she didn’t have to die, only suffer. I don’t recall anything else about the rest having to suffer first.

Also, if suffering was the only thing needed, then why didn’t anyone intervene and off the little girls after they subdued the evil spirit? You see them earlier screaming for their lives. Someone could have just killed off all the girls after the evil spirit failed to do its job.

Cory said
Every other country that was participating in it failed, even Japan. Why didn’t Japan just set the room on fire after the little girls beat the evil spirit.

Actually, you make a great point here. It’s a fairly obvious plot hole, but they do a good job of distracting you with everything else that’s going on. When the fate of mankind is at stake, and ever other country seems to be failing, you’d think one of the staff could just walk on stage and put a bullet in each sacrifice’s skull…that would also be following the rules. I’m afraid that I might have to concede that not everything about this movie is done perfectly…unless…could it be argued that just because this movie is a deliberate satire, it is immune to plot holes, as this might be an intentional criticism of horror movie plot holes in general?

So, DK, I’ll offer you the same thing that I used to offer my employees back in the day: When pointing out a problem, also come equipped with a proposed solution. You’re in agreement with me that the ending of the movie is off, so then what do you propose? I’ve given my opinion, and offered a possible ending that I think could work great with some very minor tweeks to the current movie. How do you think the movie should’ve ended? I’d like to hear some other possible endings that could be satisfying.

So far I’ve seen these offered:

1 – The old gods show up and we watch them destroy the world during the credits.

2 – The fool character reveals his virginity, making the girl the fool (an idea bolstered by the girl’s foolish decision to have sex with a teacher that we learn when we first meet her).

3 – The fool character shoots himself (which at is at least an altruistic way to go. The idea that the two of them sit there, complacent with the end of the world, bothers me more and more as I think about it).

The new guy (security guard) asks something about why they need to put them through all of this horror stuff, and the response is “because we’re not the only ones watching”. To me that implied that this is some kind of sick reality show for the divine and that all sacrifices are required to suffer. When Dana is swimming to the dock, the new guy asks why they’re celebrating; she’s still alive. “The virgin death is optional, as long as it’s at the end. At least she suffered…”

I would insert “… like the others”. If it was about just the virgin suffering, this movie could have been 5 people sitting in a room, 4 get shot, and the virgin gets tortured for an hour. But they do the horror thing because the gods want to be entertained by the suffering of all the sacrifices. At least that’s how I took it.

But again, you’re totally right about the little Japanese girls…why does that sound wrong?

I already mentioned my idea. They can still off each other/themselves, but that won’t stop the old gods from rising. We can still have the swapping of roles with the fool and virgin. We can still have the self sacrifice method. It just won’t matter because the ritual failed. The sacrifice wasn’t done in the way it was supposed to be. To give the audience a false sense of a “good” ending, the rumbling could stop for a bit after one character dies, but then they burst through anyways. It fits in with the rest of the movie already as no other country was able to appease the gods. Isn’t it odd that none of them just tried killing the sacrifices on their own? Why would America magically be able to just shoot the sacrifices to appease the gods?

Now let me ask you this. What would you change in the rest of the movie to fit your ending? If being able to shoot someone counts as a sacrifice, that throws the entire plot of America being the last hope out the window.

zombiesauerkraut said
The new guy (security guard) asks something about why they need to put them through all of this horror stuff, and the response is “because we’re not the only ones watching”. To me that implied that this is some kind of sick reality show for the divine and that all sacrifices are required to suffer. When Dana is swimming to the dock, the new guy asks why they’re celebrating; she’s still alive. “The virgin death is optional, as long as it’s at the end. At least she suffered…”

I would insert “… like the others”. If it was about just the virgin suffering, this movie could have been 5 people sitting in a room, 4 get shot, and the virgin gets tortured for an hour. But they do the horror thing because the gods want to be entertained by the suffering of all the sacrifices. At least that’s how I took it.

But again, you’re totally right about the little Japanese girls…why does that sound wrong?

But I would counter that part of the entertainment then is the gruesome deaths. We watch horror movies nowadays to be entertained by different ways people can be offed. This movie is definitely an allegory of our enjoyment of the horror genre. We are the old gods. If the final death of a horror movie was simply someone being shot, I know I would be pissed. In that way, simply shooting the final sacrifice might not appease the old gods. I’m pretty sure when the two guys were telling the security guards about the ritual that the old gods taste has been changing, which is why each country has a different ritual.

Granted my argument kinda has a weak point. Thor’s death wasn’t all that gruesome. Though it was painful to watch him continually hit the wall on the way down. We never get to see him splatter on the bottom, but I’m sure that would have been pretty disturbing.

The gods destroying the different cities through the credits is what I was secretly hoping for, but it’s better that they didn’t do this because, again, I think it would feel cheap. As for any ending in which these two people who mean something to each other, either off the other or off themselves, I think we’re forgetting that homicide and suicide are very difficult acts for most people to commit, no matter how altruistic the ends may be. Human beings do not have the same selfless, calculating thought process as Vulcans, especially not under such extreme circumstances. These human beings who just survived this horrific experience together are as susceptible as any other humans to illogical thoughts and emotions governing their decisions. And their fellow humans just spent the last 24 hours trying to kill them in this monstrous manner, because that’s what mankind needs to do to itself in order to survive. I don’t think these two would be very human at all if they didn’t at least consider whether humanity should be allowed to endure. Rationally, I can’t say this is the decision I would make, but in that situation, with a gun in my hand, I’m not confident I could pull the trigger, whether the barrel is to my head, or my friend’s head, or a complete stranger’s head.

But I would counter that part of the entertainment then is the gruesome deaths. We watch horror movies nowadays to be entertained by different ways people can be offed.

I’m sure that rings true for many people, but I don’t watch horror movies for the gruesome deaths. I don’t consider myself to be squeamish, but I just don’t enjoy watching characters suffering agonizing deaths and the only time when I wish a character to die soon, though not painfully, is when I’ve already become fed up with their horrible lines or acting. I much more enjoy their expressions of fear and shock as the try frantically to escape the boogie man as that is the main source of tension in horror movies. But then again, these seem to be old school gods, so they could very well be into the messy, gruesome deaths. Plus, I think you’re right about the old guys about the gods’ taste changing, so that could be seen as supporting your point. So I guess we’ve proven that the movie isn’t airtight. None the less, I think changing one thing in order for something else to make sense would only continue to bring up other issues until we end up with a very different movie, so I’m very happy with the way it is.

Really? Now I’m stunned! It is something that seems to happen quite often, I’m surprised you haven’t noticed yet. But as this is the second time you’ve responded to one of my posts in practically the exact same fashion, I think you’re missing the point of the forums. Disagreements occur pretty frequently and though you might have expected otherwise, the forum is not your personal, digital glory hole where you can go for a daily fix of my acknowledgment. Thanks to your sarcastic, snooty little quip, it should now be clear to all just how narrow-minded you are when it comes to your own “creative” opinions and how bizarrely desperate you are for everyone to agree with them. If you’ve already determined this to be your default way of responding to any of my posts that aren’t gushing over how right you always are, then for future reference, please see the line below:

BELIEVE IT, BABY! Because I’ve yet to agree with a single word of the b.s. you spout on Flix.

I think you should learn this post as a mantra and pray it 1000 times every time you read a post from me, zombie

I only pray to the Roman Catholic God, but thanks for the suggestion. Maybe I’ll say a couple Hail Marys instead. Don’t worry, I’m confident that you and I will be able to work out our differences (again with the latinacons i see ).

Now let me ask you this. What would you change in the rest of the movie to fit your ending? If being able to shoot someone counts as a sacrifice, that throws the entire plot of America being the last hope out the window.

Well, for the ending I proposed, it relies on me disagreeing with your assessment. In my view, the important thing about the sacrifice is the suffering of the virgin character. It doesn’t matter if the virgin dies, she just has to suffer, and the previous sacrifices are done in a certain fashion because, over the centuries, that is how the people running this deal have found that the Gods are best appeased. If this were my movie, it would’ve gone like this:

We establish early that the stoner character has always had a crush on the red haired girl. This is done when the stoner shows up, and Chris Helmsworth tells him that he’s trying to hook up his jock buddy with the girl. The stoner is frustrated, and Chris says, “What? I thought you gave up on her after she fucked the teacher.” The stoner character concedes, and we move on from there.

Everything else in the movie stays the same, until the ending. I could quibble about doing a better set-up in the beginning, but I covered all of that in the podcast. At the end, Weaver tries to convince the girl to shoot the stoner, and she considers it, but then instead of the magical perfect timing of the werewolf showing up, the stoner tricks her into thinking there’s something coming from behind, and then attacks. He gets the gun and kills Weaver, then the girl starts yelling at him that the whole world is going to end if he doesn’t die. The ground begins to rumble as the Old Gods come up, and we’re given a view of some vicious tentacles snaking their way up through the shaft. Let the visual effects guys go nuts and create some Cthulu looking monstrosities. Then, we cut back to the girl and the stoner, as the girl is pleading with him to kill himself so the world doesn’t end. He raises the gun, and we as the audience think he is going to kill himself, but then he says, “I always loved you.” He’s obviously distraught, because he’s harbored a crush on this girl for years (and hence, his suffering is Old-God-worthy). He points the gun at her. She screams at him, saying that he has to kill himself to stop the Old Gods, and then he says, “No. You’re the fool, Darla (or whatever her name was). I’m a virgin.”

although, I still don’t like that the old gods would be appeased by that kind of death… it seems, cheap. I mean, the Japanese children surely suffered from the clips we saw. They just thwarted the evil spirit. Why was that scenario considered a failure and not the America one? As far as we know, no one bothered to try to off the girls after the evil spirit failed to do so. It just irks me that the American team was the only one that bothered to try to appease the gods outside of the specific scenario set up.

Really? Now I’m stunned! It is something that seems to happen quite often, I’m surprised you haven’t noticed yet. But as this is the second time you’ve responded to one of my posts in practically the exact same fashion, I think you’re missing the point of the forums. Disagreements occur pretty frequently and though you might have expected otherwise, the forum is not your personal, digital glory hole where you can go for a daily fix of my acknowledgment. Thanks to your sarcastic, snooty little quip, it should now be clear to all just how narrow-minded you are when it comes to your own “creative” opinions and how bizarrely desperate you are for everyone to agree with them. If you’ve already determined this to be your default way of responding to any of my posts that aren’t gushing over how right you always are, then for future reference, please see the line below:

BELIEVE IT, BABY! Because I’ve yet to agree with a single word of the b.s. you spout on Flix.

I think you should learn this post as a mantra and pray it 1000 times every time you read a post from me, zombie

I think the other scenarios around the world were just thrown in there for a joke. I never saw those videos and thought of them as integral to the plot. Honestly, I was surprised to see that those scenes are what broke the movie for you. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, I just hadn’t considered them a problem.

I think we’d all agree that if the movie changed, midway through, to focus on the Japanese kids, it would’ve been a major WTF, and would’ve likely killed the movie. I think the movie could’ve benefited with a scene where Bradley Whitford talks with the Japanese director, and they discuss what went wrong in Japan while watching videos from the event. That could’ve been fun, and would’ve helped out with your issue.

I was being hyperbolic…good catch. See how easy it can be for someone in retrospect to admit that they were being a bit unreasonable? I think it’s a little telling that I get called on a linguistic technicality, when other people get away with calling Stephan Hawking a retard or insisting they have a ‘clearly’ better version of certain aspects of a movie. There are a lot of writers out there, and people don’t generally like em all…I’m no different. If I feel it was inappropriate that someone implied that fans of a particular movie have sucky taste, it’s my prerogative to express my criticisms on the forums. Yoshi (for whom I’ve never had anything but happy feelings), I respect that you feel obligated to stick up for your buddy, but this was dropped days ago, yet here we are, talking about the same old crap. I was promised I’d never have to deal with this tripe again, so Sa Da Tay.

Vocal opposition to Mass Effect 3's ending is making the gaming community look like a laughing stock to people who have more important things to worry about than the conclusion of Shepard's three-game story.