I am not trying to say one is better than the other. I am just asking if the LTBP system is similar to Dean's? Wife was surfing and found the site, then ordered it for me. I did the assessments, and know my problems. Any help would be appreciated.

I also tried the LTBP system. Honestly, it did more damage than good. Be careful. They talk about muscle inbalances, but they don't tell you specifically how to do the stretches. Not only that, but they to have a back forum.

When I went on the forum to tell them and other back suffers that the stretches added more pain than I previously had, they blocked me from going on to the forum. They do not address the actual cause of the problem. If you notice, all of there exercises are the same for stenosis, herniated disk, bulging disk, etc. Speaking from experience, seek a good PT who is certified in the McKenzie method, and do Dean's stretches. This is the best scenario that I have found.

Thanks, russack. I'd bumped into their site last year before finding RYB. I found the site's advertising to be just so much info-mercial BS and rejected the idea of sending them $100 to give it a try ... but that doesn't mean there might not be something of value to learn from LTBP. I hope you'll keep us posted on what you find of value in their system.

So far, the stretching seems to be the same. I was supposed to take 4 pics-front, back, each side, and then send it to them so they can help me determine my muscle imbalances. I just sent the pics, so I am waiting for a reply. I did some "self-assessments" and basically had 3 of the 4 main imbalances. According to their assessments, I had FTP, high hip, and a third imbalance I can't remember. But, it sounded like I was a mess. Of course, I am paying out of pocket for everything because my worker's comp won't pay for anything.

I feel the same way Randolph does. I've seen that site before and was not impressed. It is nothing but marketing hype from beginning to end. I could find no real information of any value in page after page. Everything was just "muscle imbalance."

Anyone with half a brain knows that back pain has many more causes than just muscle imbalances.

I much prefer Dean's honest, straightforward approach. No phony credentials, no false pretense, no fake testimonials, no outlandish claims, and best of all, no $110 price tag.

I even looked their forum over last night since krd says he was banned for simply expressing that their exercises made his condition worse. I was struck by the fact that a lot of their "members" are paid employees whose job depends on them parroting the "muscle imbalance" answer for everything.

So, in my opinion, even their forum is just as fake as everything else about them.

Case in point: One of their "employees" posing as a civilian (Billy Miles) actually took a cheap shot at Dean and this site calling it "just another marketing hustle."

I was totally dumbfounded by the remark (and as you can probably tell, more than a little ticked-off) since there is nothing on THEIR site EXCEPT marketing hustle! It was what totally convinced me the guy was a fake.

Anyone can readily see that Dean does virtually no selling anywhere on this site. (And Dean, since I know you're going to read this, let me repeat what I've tried to convince you of in the past; I think your reluctance to make a sales pitch is doing everyone a disservice.)

I don't know how many times we've had to tell people here in the forum that there are books available explaining how they can go about rebuilding their back. How is that helping anyone?

I know you think you're doing the right thing, but I just think you take it too far.

Just my two cents worth, I hope we can still be friends.

In any event, I can only speak for myself when I say that I am not getting paid to be here. (And I'm 100% certain no one else is either.) That's something those two bozos over at LTBP can't say.

I came away fully convinced that the two guys running that site are total fr**ds.

Steven, I talked with Dean about his rather unique approach to funding this site and forum, and like you, I wouldn't finance RYB the way Dean is doing it ... but he is the man, and when I got the chance to talk with him face-to-face, I gave it my best shot to suggest others ways of making money honestly and fairly with RYB ... but nothing seemed better to him than his present approach. (you've got to respect his persistence with his funding experiment.) But I do know that Dean's open to suggestions (he's certainly not averse to making legitimate money with his books/site) ... so I'm going to continue trying to think up a better way to let Dean get deservedly rich from his valuable resource.

I share your frustration, Steven, watching marginally helpful programs like LTBP rake in the dough ... obviously being fair and honest is not a prerequiste for making money. Sometimes I think trying to be decent like Dean is doing here may even hinder him making the money he really deserves for making RYB available to us.

Thanks for bearing with us, russack, as Steven and I, take this little rabbit trail on your thread. In the meantime, please keep up posted on your progress, and tell us what help you get with LTBP.

Well, it has been about 2 months now, back in much better shape. After surfing the net quite awhile for answers/explanations, I have found that two things have happened. a). There are people in worse shape than I am, so I will stop complaining. b). Why buy something for $100 when you get essentially the same information, which has been just as good, for only $10.

Thanks for the positive re-enforcement. Hadn't heard from you in awhile and I was about to drop you an email to see how you were doing.

I agree with your assessment of Lose the Back Pain. It is a business and they have a totally different philosophy than I do. (Which is neither good nor bad... just a fact of life.)

They seem to have an open hostility towards me for some reason although I've never said anything bad about them one way or another.

I checked out the forum post Steven mentioned above ... just to see why he was so upset about it ... and it did seem to me to have been written by one of their employees (if not Jesse Cannone, himself).

No need to comment on it as it should be clear to anyone who reads it that the last thing they want is for anyone to discover this website. (I took it to be a backhanded compliment.)

As far as what they're selling... I also have not seen their exercise program and so I can't comment on it one way or another. I did correspond with russack privately about it and was glad to hear from him that he preferred RYB to their system. (But he didn't elaborate on how the two were different.)

I imagine that it's a matter of personal preference as to which exercise program is better. Some people may like their method.

I bought the LTBP program last time around to see what it was about. I was desperate. I can tell you that it was a major waste of time, and I returned it for a refund.

They believe that it all involves muscle imbalances. They have you assess your muscle imbalances through photos and send them to them. The problem is that when you have a bad case of sciatica, you lean to one side, your hip is tilted, and you just look kind of silly standing because of the pain. Therefore, according to them you have a high hip, tilted pelvis, rounded shoulders, etc. I questioned them about this and told them that prior to sciatica I stood perfectly straight. They told me that I had to do their exercises to eliminate the muscle imbalances.

Well, I tried (any port in a storm so to speak) and let me tell you it not only did not work, but it hurt me..... big time. When I went on the forum, to let people know that they had to be careful, they blocked me from the forum!!!!!! That is when I called them, and emailed them about my dissatisfaction and they refunded me my money.

That is the big difference. You are always here to help. You allow people to vent about their frustrations, and people can see on this site that what you offer really does work and help.

Thanks for the kind words... but actually... it's people like you (and the other members of this group) that are the ones that have been doing most of the helping. I really can't take any of the credit.

I try to ignore outfits like LTBP and not pay too much attention to what they're doing. If I don't, I tend to get upset and that just distracts me from accomplishing something positive.

If they're banning people like you from their forum... that's their loss. I feel fortunate to have you as a member of this group and I'm hoping that you will continue to share your knowledge and experience with the rest of us.

I'm glad you were able to get your money back from them. I hope other people are able to, as well.