Sidestepper wrote:Hey, does corrosion get triggered by the Sorcerer's Mana Shield?

Good god I hope not My entire previous playthrough could be summed up as a huge Martyr Wraps + Mage Plate + Bloodmage rampage. I only ever touched the monk to check out the Taurog Monk sillyness, decided it was unreal and went back to roasting w Bloodmages. Come to think of it the Mana Shield corroding would sure boost the Sorcerer, though.

And one more thing about the bead and martyr wraps. Last time around I was going BURNDAYRAZ heavy and I didn't once pick up Crystall Ball, thats how good Martyr Wraps supplemented by the bead and several other thingies are. Compared to the trisword the Wraps are very gold efficent, and if using goblins as much as I was during that playthrough, that buys you a lot of conversion fodder (unless you combine them for great retardedness).

And have the devs buffed the Crystal Ball yet? The gold cost seemed really offputting, and the fact that you had to charge it for conversion was really obscure... So I relied on the bead a lot more than a habitual Crystall Ball user would, I guess.

Also, if worried about the gold cost of burn salve, make sure to prep one in case of EM. It's quite a non-issue, and if you're getting use out of it it's well worth to buy another one (it also fuels Alch Scroll, Trisword, Crystal Ball and now the Cauldron sort of)

EDIT: I've finally solved halfling puzzle 2 thanks to Darvins solution. Apparently i was being a fool for not including the damned shield into calculation which made me think I have to waste the DP on the first goblin and I was ending up one hit short on the snake. For an hour.

EDIT 2: And the solution to the third one is so simple, yet so obscure and lateral that I don't know what to think. Also Darvins solution is neater, but a minor step can be made in a different way.

- Like: The Cha'Dylan subdungeon. So cool, and I'm so incredibly jelous of whoever Cha'Dylan is if it's a reference to someone who got a mention through purchase.

- Like: New niche trick - It never occuerd to me that you can pick up Earthmother boons from her subdungeon. Taking any but clearance is certifiable suicide, but picking up a clearance right there and then made me smile.

- Like: Also only noticed now, but the roadblock Druids in the EM subdungeon are called "Gardeners". Very pleasant!

- Like: The EM puzzle pack. A very pleasant expirience of trial, error and feature exploration, compared to the Halfling pack. Much likey. Only pack I needed help with so far was the halfling one for lvles 2 and 3.

- Big Like: The way burning and Bloody Sigil really introduced regen fighting into the early game, and how much fun and useage I'm getting out of them. Very welcome change-up from the way things were, and goes along nicely with the distinct lack of a Wraith boss haunting my earliest dungeons.

- Like: The purple "difficulty indications" the first set of directional dungeons acquired at some point but I noticed just now. Very nice on the part of the dev's seeing how much hinges on new players not rushing into the lion's mouth right away. Big props!

Last edited by Lujo on Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:22 am, edited 3 times in total.

- Severe Dislike: The way Pactmaker is still introduced. It still eats up a subdungeon, and you still get stuck with an externaly chosen pact, and it makes whatever run you were doing much harder unless you have previous expirience to do the counterintuitive thing and grab him after you beat the boss. I'm honestly not sure why this was never touched. Am I missing something or what?

- Enjoyed: The Mysterea puzzle pack. Quite a brainteaser that one, plus the hint seemed unclear in the second one, and was hilariously over the top on the last one. Didn't even work on the last one and I ended up doing the right thing on the off chance that "if it somehow works I'll try to work out how exactly it worked later". The solution made sense in retrospect, and that interaction is a handy bit of info to have. It felt a lot more like a nasty tutorial than a puzzle compared to the other ones (apart from the halfling one), but I guess this is how they all seem to a newbie (because here I didn't in fact posses all the mechanical info needed to solve it beforehand).

- Liked: The GG puzzles. All I have to say, and I like their flavour the best. Plus, him being the tricky stingy bastard he is, they seem to be really good at showing off all the numerous ways you can tick him off somewhere where it wouldn't cause someone's run to fail. Very nice.

The Avatar wrote:I totally agree on the pactmaker unlock. It's lame. It should have just one interesting subdungeon once you find all the other gods.

It's just wrong from whichever angle you approach it. I woudn't mind him showin up 5 times if you got a sign explaining which pact would you be entering, but even that would be scratching the surface of how wrong it rubbs me everywhere at once.

- Big Like: Rogue silver now that I've finally figured out how it's supposed to be done. Or an unintended way of doing it (but I'm sure it was the intended one). Last time around I found it extremely frustrating, but now I've approached it as a puzzle and it is delightfull.

- Semi-Largeish Itch: I'm well aware that the Gloves Of Midas are up there with the best items in the game, but I'm also aware that the Rogue is probably THE best class in the game. Unlocking him needs no incentive, so awarding people the gloves as his unlock rather than the Thieves one seems a bit excessive power-wise. I doubt it's going to change because the Rogue Silver is thematicaly tied to the reward and probably undoable with anything but a Rogue, but I whish we had had a chance to spot this earlier on in the beta. Having rogue Silver defile the pool with the balanced dagger would balance him as an unlock a little bit (he also unlock gorgons which are iconic popcorn you want in your pool). Not sure if readily available gloves would break the early economy, though. Oh well...

- Noticed: Pen the magical dragon subdungeon. Feels weird and thrown togather, but the bits of lore are nice. The refference to the witch before you unlock her is a bit weird.

- Art Idea: It's probably not the right time to suggest something like this, but I'm making a note for such a time. Shops could have a different pallete swap background (and or name pool entries) for different item categories like "basic", "quest", "class challenge" and "Elite". I'm of course reffering to the background of the UI element where the inventory picture is. Random thought arose during attempt to figure out whether quest items spawn before you unlock the bazzar lvl2.

- ????? I've just unlocked TT in the southern swamp. Now, I know that race unlocks spawn their own subdungeons and can be found right away in directional dungeons. The first tier gods also had their subdungeons spawned in addition to a regualr one. But TT spawned in the Southern Swamp as the only subdungeon. Is this normal?

- Like: TT's puzzle set. Challenging, nicely written (some Mark Hamill Joker vibe in there), convoluted and satisfying. Third one had me doing something I don't remember ever doing, and I actually found the concept of there being a very boring cleric in TT's lair as an emergency really amusing.

- Noticed: Pans Labirynth subdungeon: Again, I like the concept of a scary dangerous labyrints, except there's nothing but exploration there, and the exploration is risky. Whish there was a charm of somesort that the Hellboi dropped or something. Must be one of the shoutout subdungeons, on to of being a gulliermo del toro shoutout (can't tell who Marwod is). Needs more substance, or... doesn't. Simmilar to Pen Dragon one.

- Weirdness: I just had the philosopher stone spawn in Priest Silver. I didn't know that could happen.

And have the devs buffed the Crystal Ball yet? The gold cost seemed really offputting, and the fact that you had to charge it for conversion was really obscure...

It'd be nice if it costed less to activate, I'd agree. The problem is that if you want to activate it once you'll get way better bang for your buck out of a schadenfreude potion, and if you use it repeatedly the cost starts to add up and preclude other combos. It still works as a preparation, but it could stand to have its cost pulled down a bit.

I'd preferably like to see the penalty changed to something other than gold, but at this point I doubt that's happening and would rather just see the gold cost brought down to, say, 2 or 3.

- Severe Dislike: The way Pactmaker is still introduced. It still eats up a subdungeon, and you still get stuck with an externaly chosen pact, and it makes whatever run you were doing much harder unless you have previous expirience to do the counterintuitive thing and grab him after you beat the boss. I'm honestly not sure why this was never touched. Am I missing something or what?

Darvin wrote:Agreed; is it too late for a Pactmaker subdungeon rework?

I hope not, they've been adding subdungeons at various times which feel unfinished/sparse but still make more sense. It's the only major kink I've found so far, everything else was pretty sweet.

- Noticed: Soko Trolls No. 3. took me a while as usual. If I can't remember exactly how to do that one it always gives me a lot of trouble for some reason. Ok, all the other ones in one try, except 7 (two tries) due to an unintentional missclick. 5, 6, 7 with resources left over (all of them I think), but there is something about No. 3 that always makes it more difficult for me. Not sure what. Otherwise, one hell of a minigame.

- Weirdness: Soko Trolls I think I didn't get the gold reward for completing them. I'm not sure, and I'd have to restart the playthrough to check it out, but I'm pretty much convinced that I didn't get the gold. It was unlocked for about 3 runs and I didn't touch it, and now I was missing about 250 gold for the Alchemist and thought to get it there. Except if I saw the 636 as 936 and made a mistake. Hmmmmm...

- Noticed: Early Game: The den of danger, being cramped and all, feels quite a bit more tense than venture cave. And IS a bit harder, if my spontaneous badge record means anything.

- Art Idea: The Djinn and the Goo subdungeons feel a bit... random, compared to the newer dungeons. If the djinn one had a tileset foreshadowing something northern (like cursed oasis) and the goo had something foreshadowing something western (like magma mines), it wouldn't be so noticable. It could also open up space for two more boring little subdungeons where mosters drop... either the same or something else but display the current, eastern and a southern tileset. Just a random thought there...

- Find odd: The fact that the Tinker subdungeon is still the old "patch of blackspace" style rather than the one of the newer ones (fully explored, or with darker spaces).

- Big Like: The signboard Gorgon Subdungeon. A subdungeon ago I was thinking about how finding signboards with lore information feels a bit odd. Then I found the lampshade

- Big Like: The Brandonnn subdungeon was hilarious ^^ And really, really generous ^^ Typo in there? Guy hand's you "ganutlets" and then sayes he's more of a "Midas Glove" kind of guy... Maybe its intentional?

- Noticed: Sorcerer Bronze was rather easy, which is fine, but I was surprised that I managed Sorcerer Silver on the first try this time around. The retaliate changes didn't figure much into it, but the GG altar which spawned (maybe does all the time) just won the game from me. I only joined mid boss-fight after I drank all the mana potions, took absolutions and protections and won. Not sure what to think, but I got the bead.

- Find Amusing: I'm enjoying the wraithless game that I haven't unlocked the guild yet. Good training for purist runs I suppose, and my gold flow is quite nice. The game is quite playable.

- Find Odd: The Northern Desert lists the Tower Of Goo as it's boss in the kingdom screen, when in fact it's always been Aequitas for me.

Last edited by Lujo on Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:45 pm, edited 6 times in total.

I've lately found Venture Cave to be much more cramped than I remember, too. If you adjust the Den, you'll probably need to do the Cave as well, lest they end up too similar. (I mean, they're already pretty darn similar. I still think having only one 'normal' dungeon but with sliders for size, density, and difficulty would be better...)