Where this thread loses me is the idea that Mom is being hosted. She's not, she's doing this household a big favor. She will be cooking and working. Likely being around a lot of things she is not entirely comfortable with (alcohol as well) and as she is doing this family a favor, a bit of good will and acknowledgement of her preferences isn't much to ask for, IMO.

This. Yes, the homeowner has the right to cook as she pleases. The guest has the right to tolerate it or graciously opt not to stay at the home. If someone were doing me a favor, I'd certainly do my best to accommodate them.

I think the OP is fine because she is having a variety of breakfast foods. She only wants bacon as a side dish for breakfast which everyone except one person can eat. I don't think she's planning a month worth of meals with pork as the main ingredient in every dish.

Unless the mom can't even be inside a house with pork products (which doesn't sound like it), the OP is fine.

My thoughts are running along the lines as NyaChan and Gellchom. I don't think it's rude to serve pork, but I also can't imagine it's in every meal.

And, with this exact situation it's not like it's a regular host-guest situation. Mom is coming to help and doing this household a favor, she isn't coming to just see the baby or visit the area, she is going to be working. OP stated Mom will be cooking after baby is born. So, what then?

Then the mom does not have to touch pork but if the OP or anyone else wants it can cook themselves, the sister can cook it or another non abstaining adult. The idea is not to make the abstainer do something they object to - but to make sure that those who do not abstain don't have to, no one's beliefs are put above another's, especially in the non abstainer's own home.

I don't disagree with that. Of course, they don't *have* to abstain from pork or alcohol.

Where this thread loses me is the idea that Mom is being hosted. She's not, she's doing this household a big favor. She will be cooking and working. Likely being around a lot of things she is not entirely comfortable with (alcohol as well) and as she is doing this family a favor, a bit of good will and acknowledgement of her preferences isn't much to ask for, IMO.

It is in mine....she preferences in some else's home don't override the preferences of those who live there. She may be doing a favor, but she's still a guest and if she does not like the fact that they are going to live their lives as they see fit, in their own home, she doesn't have to stay there. Even if she is flying in there are other options than her preferences taking precedence over someone else's in their own home. Even if she is doing cooking and cleaning she can take meals else where, or stay else where, the OP's husband, members of his family, the sister or even the OP herself can cook the traditional pork meal and serve the beer and wine at the party. But their beliefs, culture and traditions not come second to this other preference. The idea that one person gets to control what others do because of that person's beliefs doesn't cut it for me. It elevates one set of beliefs above another, and no matter what the reason for either belief allowing one to supersede and control the other, even in someone's home is not cool with me. The abstainer can keep their own beliefs but that does not mean anyone else has to follow their preferences. In fact the I'd say the only time an abstainer has the right to dictate what other's eat or drink is in the abstainer's home.

Also it would be different if she truly was morally opposed to the food item and not just restricted from eating it. I know a lot of people who don't eat pork due to religion but they also are not offended by its presence. The simple solution is ask her. She is your Mom. If there is anyone you should be able to ask questions of preference it is family.

I served the full breakfast. My mom was fine with that and had lots of alternatives. It was cooked separate with separate utensils and she was happy. She was not offended by it being present, as long as she was not expected to consume or cook it.

Some of you are right - she is doing ME the favour by being here, to help me with my children/housework - so I really think I cannot follow 'traditional' MY house rules, iykwim?? Plus she is my mom.... I want her to feel very welcome. She is here for a week on her own expense, something she can't really afford but wanted to do. I am making a Halal dinner tonight just for her.

Also it would be different if she truly was morally opposed to the food item and not just restricted from eating it. I know a lot of people who don't eat pork due to religion but they also are not offended by its presence. The simple solution is ask her. She is your Mom. If there is anyone you should be able to ask questions of preference it is family.

Yes, if you can't eat it that is one thing. If it is truly seen as unclean that would be another.

Ohhh...what is the traditional Quebecois pork cuisine? Would love details and a recipe.

Since this is a cultural tradition, I'm sure your mom can deal.

It is 'creton' which is a fatty pork paste spread on fresh baguette, along with feves au lard (beans in pork lard), along with bacon (and smoked meat sandwich)...! It is a very pork and alcohol dominant culture!

It would actually be considered quite rude to not serve alcohol at a celebration here!!

Muslims do definitely consider it 'unclean' but my mother is a convert by marriage and tends to not be as 'insistent' on the rules as perhaps someone who was more religious would be. Her husband is not here, it's just her.

I don't really think being pregnant is an issue though. Maybe if I was struggling/ill. I am going on 3 days overdue yes, but I am doing just fine and not struggling at all.

My thoughts are running along the lines as NyaChan and Gellchom. I don't think it's rude to serve pork, but I also can't imagine it's in every meal.

And, with this exact situation it's not like it's a regular host-guest situation. Mom is coming to help and doing this household a favor, she isn't coming to just see the baby or visit the area, she is going to be working. OP stated Mom will be cooking after baby is born. So, what then?

Then the mom does not have to touch pork but if the OP or anyone else wants it can cook themselves, the sister can cook it or another non abstaining adult. The idea is not to make the abstainer do something they object to - but to make sure that those who do not abstain don't have to, no one's beliefs are put above another's, especially in the non abstainer's own home.

I don't disagree with that. Of course, they don't *have* to abstain from pork or alcohol.

Where this thread loses me is the idea that Mom is being hosted. She's not, she's doing this household a big favor. She will be cooking and working. Likely being around a lot of things she is not entirely comfortable with (alcohol as well) and as she is doing this family a favor, a bit of good will and acknowledgement of her preferences isn't much to ask for, IMO.

It is in mine....she preferences in some else's home don't override the preferences of those who live there. She may be doing a favor, but she's still a guest and if she does not like the fact that they are going to live their lives as they see fit, in their own home, she doesn't have to stay there. Even if she is flying in there are other options than her preferences taking precedence over someone else's in their own home. Even if she is doing cooking and cleaning she can take meals else where, or stay else where, the OP's husband, members of his family, the sister or even the OP herself can cook the traditional pork meal and serve the beer and wine at the party. But their beliefs, culture and traditions not come second to this other preference. The idea that one person gets to control what others do because of that person's beliefs doesn't cut it for me. It elevates one set of beliefs above another, and no matter what the reason for either belief allowing one to supersede and control the other, even in someone's home is not cool with me. The abstainer can keep their own beliefs but that does not mean anyone else has to follow their preferences. In fact the I'd say the only time an abstainer has the right to dictate what other's eat or drink is in the abstainer's home.

I don't believe it's about control at all, it's simply a matter of preference. For you, it sounds like something like this is a deal breaker. That's fine, but it doesn't mean others are controlling or being controlled. They view the exchange of host/guest and favors differently.

My thoughts are running along the lines as NyaChan and Gellchom. I don't think it's rude to serve pork, but I also can't imagine it's in every meal.

And, with this exact situation it's not like it's a regular host-guest situation. Mom is coming to help and doing this household a favor, she isn't coming to just see the baby or visit the area, she is going to be working. OP stated Mom will be cooking after baby is born. So, what then?

Then the mom does not have to touch pork but if the OP or anyone else wants it can cook themselves, the sister can cook it or another non abstaining adult. The idea is not to make the abstainer do something they object to - but to make sure that those who do not abstain don't have to, no one's beliefs are put above another's, especially in the non abstainer's own home.

I don't disagree with that. Of course, they don't *have* to abstain from pork or alcohol.

Where this thread loses me is the idea that Mom is being hosted. She's not, she's doing this household a big favor. She will be cooking and working. Likely being around a lot of things she is not entirely comfortable with (alcohol as well) and as she is doing this family a favor, a bit of good will and acknowledgement of her preferences isn't much to ask for, IMO.

It is in mine....she preferences in some else's home don't override the preferences of those who live there. She may be doing a favor, but she's still a guest and if she does not like the fact that they are going to live their lives as they see fit, in their own home, she doesn't have to stay there. Even if she is flying in there are other options than her preferences taking precedence over someone else's in their own home. Even if she is doing cooking and cleaning she can take meals else where, or stay else where, the OP's husband, members of his family, the sister or even the OP herself can cook the traditional pork meal and serve the beer and wine at the party. But their beliefs, culture and traditions not come second to this other preference. The idea that one person gets to control what others do because of that person's beliefs doesn't cut it for me. It elevates one set of beliefs above another, and no matter what the reason for either belief allowing one to supersede and control the other, even in someone's home is not cool with me. The abstainer can keep their own beliefs but that does not mean anyone else has to follow their preferences. In fact the I'd say the only time an abstainer has the right to dictate what other's eat or drink is in the abstainer's home.

This whole post is an amazingly hostile response. You do realize that the OP actually seems to *like* her mother, right? There's no apparent issue of her mother controlling her, her mother didn't even ever bring this up, the OP is trying to figure how to, essentially, be nice to her mother. Who she likes, and wants to make feel welcome.

Your attitude and approach are an excellent way to deal with demanding, SS, controlling people who want to steamroll you. But it comes off as a really snotty way to think about the people that you actually like and want to make feel welcome.

To be clear, it's the attitude I have a problem with, not the act of serving bacon. There's serving bacon thinking 'I've made sure Mom has plenty of yummy food to eat without pork, and I'm happy to do so, and this bacon is for me and Sis', and there's serving bacon thinking 'if Mom doesn't like this she can JUST GO SOMEWHERE ELSE MY HOUSE MY RULES!!!!!11'.

My thoughts are running along the lines as NyaChan and Gellchom. I don't think it's rude to serve pork, but I also can't imagine it's in every meal.

And, with this exact situation it's not like it's a regular host-guest situation. Mom is coming to help and doing this household a favor, she isn't coming to just see the baby or visit the area, she is going to be working. OP stated Mom will be cooking after baby is born. So, what then?

Then the mom does not have to touch pork but if the OP or anyone else wants it can cook themselves, the sister can cook it or another non abstaining adult. The idea is not to make the abstainer do something they object to - but to make sure that those who do not abstain don't have to, no one's beliefs are put above another's, especially in the non abstainer's own home.

I don't disagree with that. Of course, they don't *have* to abstain from pork or alcohol.

Where this thread loses me is the idea that Mom is being hosted. She's not, she's doing this household a big favor. She will be cooking and working. Likely being around a lot of things she is not entirely comfortable with (alcohol as well) and as she is doing this family a favor, a bit of good will and acknowledgement of her preferences isn't much to ask for, IMO.

I see where you're coming from there. I don't really host my Mom. It is my house and home, but that doesn't mean that my mom and dad are guests in my house in the usual sense. They've never had a reason to stay at my house for days but if they did and they were anti-fooditem I would probably not abstain.

Logged

It's alright, man. I'm only bleeding, man. Stay hungry, stay free, and do the best you can. ~Gaslight Anthem

My thoughts are running along the lines as NyaChan and Gellchom. I don't think it's rude to serve pork, but I also can't imagine it's in every meal.

And, with this exact situation it's not like it's a regular host-guest situation. Mom is coming to help and doing this household a favor, she isn't coming to just see the baby or visit the area, she is going to be working. OP stated Mom will be cooking after baby is born. So, what then?

Then the mom does not have to touch pork but if the OP or anyone else wants it can cook themselves, the sister can cook it or another non abstaining adult. The idea is not to make the abstainer do something they object to - but to make sure that those who do not abstain don't have to, no one's beliefs are put above another's, especially in the non abstainer's own home.

I don't disagree with that. Of course, they don't *have* to abstain from pork or alcohol.

Where this thread loses me is the idea that Mom is being hosted. She's not, she's doing this household a big favor. She will be cooking and working. Likely being around a lot of things she is not entirely comfortable with (alcohol as well) and as she is doing this family a favor, a bit of good will and acknowledgement of her preferences isn't much to ask for, IMO.

It is in mine....she preferences in some else's home don't override the preferences of those who live there. She may be doing a favor, but she's still a guest and if she does not like the fact that they are going to live their lives as they see fit, in their own home, she doesn't have to stay there. Even if she is flying in there are other options than her preferences taking precedence over someone else's in their own home. Even if she is doing cooking and cleaning she can take meals else where, or stay else where, the OP's husband, members of his family, the sister or even the OP herself can cook the traditional pork meal and serve the beer and wine at the party. But their beliefs, culture and traditions not come second to this other preference. The idea that one person gets to control what others do because of that person's beliefs doesn't cut it for me. It elevates one set of beliefs above another, and no matter what the reason for either belief allowing one to supersede and control the other, even in someone's home is not cool with me. The abstainer can keep their own beliefs but that does not mean anyone else has to follow their preferences. In fact the I'd say the only time an abstainer has the right to dictate what other's eat or drink is in the abstainer's home.

This whole post is an amazingly hostile response. You do realize that the OP actually seems to *like* her mother, right? There's no apparent issue of her mother controlling her, her mother didn't even ever bring this up, the OP is trying to figure how to, essentially, be nice to her mother. Who she likes, and wants to make feel welcome.

Your attitude and approach are an excellent way to deal with demanding, SS, controlling people who want to steamroll you. But it comes off as a really snotty way to think about the people that you actually like and want to make feel welcome.

To be clear, it's the attitude I have a problem with, not the act of serving bacon. There's serving bacon thinking 'I've made sure Mom has plenty of yummy food to eat without pork, and I'm happy to do so, and this bacon is for me and Sis', and there's serving bacon thinking 'if Mom doesn't like this she can JUST GO SOMEWHERE ELSE MY HOUSE MY RULES!!!!!11'.

You know, I've tried several times to answer you. I've tried to take it out of anyone one belief system by using non specific terms for the any number of diets that could come under this. I've also said that this mother should not be forced to handle or cook anything she finds objectionable,,,,however saying that the residents of the house hold need to abstain because a guest does why? Especially since we all agree that the abstainer does not have to provide the things they abstain from when they have a guest of opposite view. Wouldn't the abstainer equally want their guests to feel welcome? Hospitality and respect for other's views goes both ways. If those who abstain want people who visit to respect that they won't be having XYZPDQ at their house - they also need to respect the other end of the spectrum and realize that people eat differently than they do and that they might see or even sit at the say table as something they abstain from, and that does not make them not good followers of ABCPDQ - it means they are respecting someone else's veiws in their own home. I said a couple of times that I would make sure that the guest would have enough of the things she can eat for her stay, I've even said I'd ask for lessons to make it easier the next time, I love learning new ways too cook, really. I just would not abstain for the duration of her visit, nor would I ask my family or the rest of my guests. The mother in this post ( via the OP's update) sounds like a gracious lady, the OP sounds like a gracious lady but they were not the only ones involved in this equation. They never were. The OP has another child and a DH - all of whom should have a voice in this. It's not about making one, single person feel welcome, it's also about making everyone else feel welcome in their own home and that their feelings and beliefs carry at least an equal weight. And yes, if a compromise can't be reached where in the occupants of the house are just as welcome as anyone else, then some other arrangement needs to be made, even if that is not hosting someone who would be offended at the normal goings on at one's home. I don't know how to explain it so that you won't be offended, so I think we are going to have to agree to disagree here.

I think both NyaChan's and Aeris's posts made a good point:It's not about HAVING to abstain due to the guest's belief system it's about WANTING the guest to feel as comfortable as possible, essentially to be a good host.

IMO there is a difference between a religious belief and a dietary restriction as well: if I had a guest that was lactose intolerant I would make sure they had a choice of foods, but not abstain completely from dairy. If I had a guest that didn't eat pork for a religious reason I would not serve pork as long as they are visiting.True, the guest may not feel offended if I do serve pork, but they will feel like I made an effort to make them feel welcome.Abstaining from something non-essential like pork costs me nothing, but could do a lot to make my guest feel much more comfortable. It's not like I'm being asked not to drink water. It's not like I'm being asked to break a habit, like smoking.

My thoughts are running along the lines as NyaChan and Gellchom. I don't think it's rude to serve pork, but I also can't imagine it's in every meal.

And, with this exact situation it's not like it's a regular host-guest situation. Mom is coming to help and doing this household a favor, she isn't coming to just see the baby or visit the area, she is going to be working. OP stated Mom will be cooking after baby is born. So, what then?

Then the mom does not have to touch pork but if the OP or anyone else wants it can cook themselves, the sister can cook it or another non abstaining adult. The idea is not to make the abstainer do something they object to - but to make sure that those who do not abstain don't have to, no one's beliefs are put above another's, especially in the non abstainer's own home.

I don't disagree with that. Of course, they don't *have* to abstain from pork or alcohol.

Where this thread loses me is the idea that Mom is being hosted. She's not, she's doing this household a big favor. She will be cooking and working. Likely being around a lot of things she is not entirely comfortable with (alcohol as well) and as she is doing this family a favor, a bit of good will and acknowledgement of her preferences isn't much to ask for, IMO.

It is in mine....she preferences in some else's home don't override the preferences of those who live there. She may be doing a favor, but she's still a guest and if she does not like the fact that they are going to live their lives as they see fit, in their own home, she doesn't have to stay there. Even if she is flying in there are other options than her preferences taking precedence over someone else's in their own home. Even if she is doing cooking and cleaning she can take meals else where, or stay else where, the OP's husband, members of his family, the sister or even the OP herself can cook the traditional pork meal and serve the beer and wine at the party. But their beliefs, culture and traditions not come second to this other preference. The idea that one person gets to control what others do because of that person's beliefs doesn't cut it for me. It elevates one set of beliefs above another, and no matter what the reason for either belief allowing one to supersede and control the other, even in someone's home is not cool with me. The abstainer can keep their own beliefs but that does not mean anyone else has to follow their preferences. In fact the I'd say the only time an abstainer has the right to dictate what other's eat or drink is in the abstainer's home.

This whole post is an amazingly hostile response. You do realize that the OP actually seems to *like* her mother, right? There's no apparent issue of her mother controlling her, her mother didn't even ever bring this up, the OP is trying to figure how to, essentially, be nice to her mother. Who she likes, and wants to make feel welcome.

Your attitude and approach are an excellent way to deal with demanding, SS, controlling people who want to steamroll you. But it comes off as a really snotty way to think about the people that you actually like and want to make feel welcome.

To be clear, it's the attitude I have a problem with, not the act of serving bacon. There's serving bacon thinking 'I've made sure Mom has plenty of yummy food to eat without pork, and I'm happy to do so, and this bacon is for me and Sis', and there's serving bacon thinking 'if Mom doesn't like this she can JUST GO SOMEWHERE ELSE MY HOUSE MY RULES!!!!!11'.

Wells said. I've been following this thread and seen the same thing...just didn't know how to put it into words.

Logged

Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes.Walt Whitman

My thoughts are running along the lines as NyaChan and Gellchom. I don't think it's rude to serve pork, but I also can't imagine it's in every meal.

And, with this exact situation it's not like it's a regular host-guest situation. Mom is coming to help and doing this household a favor, she isn't coming to just see the baby or visit the area, she is going to be working. OP stated Mom will be cooking after baby is born. So, what then?

Then the mom does not have to touch pork but if the OP or anyone else wants it can cook themselves, the sister can cook it or another non abstaining adult. The idea is not to make the abstainer do something they object to - but to make sure that those who do not abstain don't have to, no one's beliefs are put above another's, especially in the non abstainer's own home.

I don't disagree with that. Of course, they don't *have* to abstain from pork or alcohol.

Where this thread loses me is the idea that Mom is being hosted. She's not, she's doing this household a big favor. She will be cooking and working. Likely being around a lot of things she is not entirely comfortable with (alcohol as well) and as she is doing this family a favor, a bit of good will and acknowledgement of her preferences isn't much to ask for, IMO.

It is in mine....she preferences in some else's home don't override the preferences of those who live there. She may be doing a favor, but she's still a guest and if she does not like the fact that they are going to live their lives as they see fit, in their own home, she doesn't have to stay there. Even if she is flying in there are other options than her preferences taking precedence over someone else's in their own home. Even if she is doing cooking and cleaning she can take meals else where, or stay else where, the OP's husband, members of his family, the sister or even the OP herself can cook the traditional pork meal and serve the beer and wine at the party. But their beliefs, culture and traditions not come second to this other preference. The idea that one person gets to control what others do because of that person's beliefs doesn't cut it for me. It elevates one set of beliefs above another, and no matter what the reason for either belief allowing one to supersede and control the other, even in someone's home is not cool with me. The abstainer can keep their own beliefs but that does not mean anyone else has to follow their preferences. In fact the I'd say the only time an abstainer has the right to dictate what other's eat or drink is in the abstainer's home.

This whole post is an amazingly hostile response. You do realize that the OP actually seems to *like* her mother, right? There's no apparent issue of her mother controlling her, her mother didn't even ever bring this up, the OP is trying to figure how to, essentially, be nice to her mother. Who she likes, and wants to make feel welcome.

Your attitude and approach are an excellent way to deal with demanding, SS, controlling people who want to steamroll you. But it comes off as a really snotty way to think about the people that you actually like and want to make feel welcome.

To be clear, it's the attitude I have a problem with, not the act of serving bacon. There's serving bacon thinking 'I've made sure Mom has plenty of yummy food to eat without pork, and I'm happy to do so, and this bacon is for me and Sis', and there's serving bacon thinking 'if Mom doesn't like this she can JUST GO SOMEWHERE ELSE MY HOUSE MY RULES!!!!!11'.

You know, I've tried several times to answer you. I've tried to take it out of anyone one belief system by using non specific terms for the any number of diets that could come under this. I've also said that this mother should not be forced to handle or cook anything she finds objectionable,,,,however saying that the residents of the house hold need to abstain because a guest does why? Especially since we all agree that the abstainer does not have to provide the things they abstain from when they have a guest of opposite view. Wouldn't the abstainer equally want their guests to feel welcome? Hospitality and respect for other's views goes both ways. If those who abstain want people who visit to respect that they won't be having XYZPDQ at their house - they also need to respect the other end of the spectrum and realize that people eat differently than they do and that they might see or even sit at the say table as something they abstain from, and that does not make them not good followers of ABCPDQ - it means they are respecting someone else's veiws in their own home. I said a couple of times that I would make sure that the guest would have enough of the things she can eat for her stay, I've even said I'd ask for lessons to make it easier the next time, I love learning new ways too cook, really. I just would not abstain for the duration of her visit, nor would I ask my family or the rest of my guests. The mother in this post ( via the OP's update) sounds like a gracious lady, the OP sounds like a gracious lady but they were not the only ones involved in this equation. They never were. The OP has another child and a DH - all of whom should have a voice in this. It's not about making one, single person feel welcome, it's also about making everyone else feel welcome in their own home and that their feelings and beliefs carry at least an equal weight. And yes, if a compromise can't be reached where in the occupants of the house are just as welcome as anyone else, then some other arrangement needs to be made, even if that is not hosting someone who would be offended at the normal goings on at one's home. I don't know how to explain it so that you won't be offended, so I think we are going to have to agree to disagree here.

I didn't think Aeris was offended, more confused as to why you were seemingly so much more upset about the situation than the OP.