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There seems to be a little hick-up in the movement of tori.
When tori steps out of the line of attack and makes contact with the jo or uke, there seems to be a little pauze. Upon which tori continues the technique.
I would prefer to see the waza in one fluent motion.

But I guess it has something to do with the Himejians as well.

Yes this is good observation. Some aikido styles do weapons in Start-Stop method, and the result is a real disaster.
Generally the techniques on this video have very low quality. The level is maximum 5th kyu and not black belt.
Some points from very rudimentary, physical point of view:
Both students are very stiff.
Attacks have not martial intent.
Balance of attacker is not taken in the moment of contact.
Nage is not interested to attack the center of uke but instead is concentrated in the jo catching and later waving jo as attacker doesn't exist.
There is no connection between both students, everybody plays his role separately.
Nage is not doing any locks seriously, so there is no question about even minimum effectiveness(as it can be obtained in dojo context ). Nage would never be able to take jo out of attacker if attacker decide to hold(I'm not even talking here about any serious counter) it for real.
The leading principle doesn't exist.
Nage is not controlling attacker at any moment.
..ok I'l not discuss here any more sophisticated no-physical aspects to demonstrate, unless all above point are not mastered there is no point to talk about it.

I am having the same kind of gut reaction to the way the jo is returned to uke as many on this thread.

I guess to me, and this is my very humble opinion, it looks uncontrolled and messy. Since your technique looks quite crisp and focused, suddenly releasing the jo to clatter to the mat is particularly out of place.

Yes this is good observation. Some aikido styles do weapons in Start-Stop method, and the result is a real disaster.
Generally the techniques on this video have very low quality. The level is maximum 5th kyu and not black belt.
Some points from very rudimentary, physical point of view:
Both students are very stiff.
Attacks have not martial intent.
Balance of attacker is not taken in the moment of contact.
Nage is not interested to attack the center of uke but instead is concentrated in the jo catching and later waving jo as attacker doesn't exist.
There is no connection between both students, everybody plays his role separately.
Nage is not doing any locks seriously, so there is no question about even minimum effectiveness(as it can be obtained in dojo context ). Nage would never be able to take jo out of attacker if attacker decide to hold(I'm not even talking here about any serious counter) it for real.
The leading principle doesn't exist.
Nage is not controlling attacker at any moment.
..ok I'l not discuss here any more sophisticated no-physical aspects to demonstrate, unless all above point are not mastered there is no point to talk about it.

I was taught and teach that you do not give a weapon back to your attacker.

I was taught that you do give it back to them. But if you are going to lay it down, rather than hand it back, then you do so mindfully. Throwing it down is sloppy, is disrespectful of both the opponent and the audience. You never see anything like that in koryu.

I was taught that you do give it back to them. But if you are going to lay it down, rather than hand it back, then you do so mindfully. Throwing it down is sloppy, is disrespectful of both the opponent and the audience. You never see anything like that in koryu.

Sensei Ledyard, I don't want to be disrespectful (because you are always a gentle person in your posts and a highly skilled Aikido Sensei), but I just want to point out that our dojo was taught this way by Paolo Corallini Shihan, 7th dan Aikikai (he has been promoted this week, congratulations!). Corallini Sensei spent great amounts of time with Saito Sensei who promoted him to 7th dan Takemusu Aiki (Iwama Ryu). Saito Sensei, as Corallini Sensei always tells in his seminars taught him this way also. Saito Sensei spent 23 years with O'Sensei. I don't know, but I have to guess, this is the way that O'Sensei used to train also, or at least, teach Saito Sensei.

I've heard the reasons for doing one way or another, and I sincerely, prefer doing it this way, so is the way our dojo expect us to. I understand that you do not see anything like that in koryu, but Aikido isn't a koryu, so I don't find that a valid argument.

I think that there is a difference between the throwing of the weapon that Guerri does (and in the video that started the thread) and what Evenås does, in all demos I have seen with him he bends down and slides the jo away (or gives it directly to uke).

The idea that you shouldn;t give the weapon back to the attacker, while valid is kinda misplaced here since it is not a real situation and besides throwing the weapon down is giving it back to the attacker. sounds a little like some one trying to qualify what they are doing but saying their training is more real. in the very unlikey event that someone attcked me with a jo (maybe pool cue, could happen i guess) and i got it off him. i would be using the weapon on the other guy, or just taking it away with me, throwing it anywhere even behind, means i have lost control of it, and is inviting anyone to pick it up agian

There did seem to be alot of attitude in the nage when he threw the weapon down, I am not sure of that is for the crowds sake or not

above all of this there just didn't seem to be alot of blending with the attck in the clips, the nage grabbed the weapon and then stopped, this kida made a lot of the rest of the technique look forced

The idea that you shouldn;t give the weapon back to the attacker, while valid is kinda misplaced here since it is not a real situation and besides throwing the weapon down is giving it back to the attacker. sounds a little like some one trying to qualify what they are doing but saying their training is more real. in the very unlikey event that someone attcked me with a jo (maybe pool cue, could happen i guess) and i got it off him. i would be using the weapon on the other guy, or just taking it away with me, throwing it anywhere even behind, means i have lost control of it, and is inviting anyone to pick it up agian

The idea is to give it back, so they can continue the training. Obviously. But not in a manner where the attacker can well, attack, immediately.

Quote:

Andrew Macdonald wrote:

There did seem to be alot of attitude in the nage when he threw the weapon down, I am not sure of that is for the crowds sake or not

I guess it's just that they are not "experts". As I am not.

Quote:

Andrew Macdonald wrote:

above all of this there just didn't seem to be alot of blending with the attck in the clips, the nage grabbed the weapon and then stopped, this kida made a lot of the rest of the technique look forced

The idea that you shouldn;t give the weapon back to the attacker, while valid is kinda misplaced here since it is not a real situation and besides throwing the weapon down is giving it back to the attacker.

This is where reishiki comes into play. Reishiki includes (among other things) the protocol from withdrawing at the conclusion of the kata, and also for exchanging weapons when you change roles. I doubt there's a ryu out there in which reishiki includes throwing down the weapon.