I am also of the opinion the new Tortorella approach is not benefiting the team. They are out to puff out their chests instead of playing to win. "Mindset", "galvanizing the team", "sending messages" to me, actually means "over- emotional", "stupid" and "undisciplined".

Vancouver getting pushed around was a myth. It's time to settle down and start playing some puck possession hockey with your best players in the lineup.

RoyalDude wrote:I want some those rose colored glasses happy pills that Rats is O.D.ing on

I am not an idiot. I know we have problems. I just cheer for the canucks whether they are good OR bad

Fandom is not only for the blindly faithful.

This team has a bad PP, bad forwards, and a bad GM. They haven't looked this hopeless in a few seasons. There is no sense in claiming you a better fan because you won't admit that the team is going now where.

They may have been going no where in 2007, 2009, and 2010. But, there was hope of growth with those teams. They were on the upswing. They played with a bit of zip, a bit of passion, and a it seemed like they were on their way to something good. Even in 2012 the team had some of that swagger.

Now they remind me of Brad May on the top line days. It seems like the Sedins aged 10 years overnight and the bottom 9 forwards look like they may never score again, ever.

Sure they've had plenty of injuries and if Henrik has a broken finger that explains a bit about the Twins production (hello Daniel?). But come now, pointing out that the team is bad or struggling or declining or not showing signs that they might snap out of it is perfectly legitimate criticism. And, it does not make people non-fans.

RoyalDude wrote:I want some those rose colored glasses happy pills that Rats is O.D.ing on

I am not an idiot. I know we have problems. I just cheer for the canucks whether they are good OR bad

Fandom is not only for the blindly faithful.

This team has a bad PP, bad forwards, and a bad GM. They haven't looked this hopeless in a few seasons. There is no sense in claiming you a better fan because you won't admit that the team is going now where.

They may have been going no where in 2007, 2009, and 2010. But, there was hope of growth with those teams. They were on the upswing. They played with a bit of zip, a bit of passion, and a it seemed like they were on their way to something good. Even in 2012 the team had some of that swagger.

Now they remind me of Brad May on the top line days. It seems like the Sedins aged 10 years overnight and the bottom 9 forwards look like they may never score again, ever.

Sure they've had plenty of injuries and if Henrik has a broken finger that explains a bit about the Twins production (hello Daniel?). But come now, pointing out that the team is bad or struggling or declining or not showing signs that they might snap out of it is perfectly legitimate criticism. And, it does not make people non-fans.

not sure where you get your info: I never said i was a BETTER fan than anyone, the worst ammo you have on me is complaining about complaining. The style of complaining really is my issue...it really hovers on whining.

I hate whining, I know you are a fan and is all members (most anyways) of this board. You and dude and several others while pointing out possible and probable FACTS.. is complaining to me. We have reason to complain dont get me wrong... ITS HOW we complain. Sorry if i offended you or led you down the wrong path.

*disclaimer: I dont think I accused anyone of being a non-fan. Pauseder..jury still out..lol

Hockey day in Canada is the same for me every year, go to my brothers house, drink a lot of beer and whiskey eat lots of food (smoked ribs and chicken) and watch 10 hours of hockey.

I loved last nights, game knowing that this team has a chance of winning the cup like the other 29 teams but reality is the chance for them to win is very low. With that in mind I like what JT is doing, enough of AV pussiness and lack of heart. Finally we are starting to see some life out of this team and I hope it makes some of the core reignited and find their balls again, if not then I hope they approach MG and ask for a trade.

Did JT cross the line, yep and damn was it fun to watch.

Luongo - fan freaking tastic last night, good on him.

Booth - Christ I could of scored on that chance.

Burrows - I think you need to take some time on the ice by yourself and remember what it is like to hit the net, we need his goals.

Anyways, today it is an Al Bundy day, other that to get my daughter from my sisters I have a little headache I need look after.

Fair enough, I wasn't trying to single you out for doing the old "you're not a fan if you complain routine." But, I was attacking that particular straw man (I think he exists out there).

I think we are all frustrated with how the team has evolved the last 3 or 4 years. And, I am personally frustrated with the way in the team has gone from an offensive juggernaut to a minnow, largely with the same crew up front. The response from Gillis has been trading strong offensive secondary players for pluggers.

I mean there was a time when Kesler, Burrows and the Twins were flanked by 3 to 4 more scoring forwards. Today we are praying that guys like Santorelli, Higgins, and Kassian can provide "secondary scoring".

It has been clear since around the time Hodgson was traded that this team doesn't have the right mix of offensive players (or enough offence). But we continue to dress a lineup with only three or four players who are a threat to score. That is what bugs me about GMMG and this team.

Mondi wrote:But come now, pointing out that the team is bad or struggling or declining or not showing signs that they might snap out of it is perfectly legitimate criticism. And, it does not make people non-fans.

Is that what RoyalDude is up to posting Leafs player stats and publicly fellating the GMs of other teams?

The team's offensive production is awful right now and has been below average most of the year. The powerplay has been brutal and has been the subject of a lot of criticism here on this board by posters like Listercat (comes to mind because he wrote an excellent post on the subject quite recently) whose 'fan credentials' aren't being questioned by anyone. It's because he's not a god damned whiner which as rats points out gets old in a hurry.

And you can say "yeah they are injured but that doesn't," all you like but the fact is those injuries have hugely exacerbated the problem we already had which is not enough scoring depth, key scorers in some degree of decline and falling scoring in general.

To wit: since the league stopped calling obstruction (and particularly in this Conference) scoring has fallen markedly and while a player like Henrik still led the West in scoring his numbers have declined like everyone else. Since then (two years ago now) we've seen Daniel lose a lot of his finish and fall a step behind Henrik, and Alex Burrows has struggled as well (his goals/game fell slightly last year and this year obviously he's run completely dry, I don't it is permanent but I doubt he reaches his peak again either). So that's where we stand in general.

Now saddle our best player (Henrik) with one and then two moderately serious injuries and take Burrows out of the lineup completely and is it any wonder the line struggles to score? I mean who have they looked their best with since Burrows went out - Dalpe for one game? It's a brutal situation and that makes it imprudent to project their future performance (while healthy) from this most recent stretch.

(Despite all this they have still been middling at even strength - 17th in goals per 60 minutes of ES ice time - and their powerplay has been dragging them into the bottom third of the league.)

Anyway throw in an injury to the starting goaltender, a good defensemen, a few more forwards and it's little wonder this team looks badly underskilled. Because they were already underskilled and then lost a bunch of players forcing others to play over their heads.

As for the "we have a bad GM," "they are awful this season" stuff - are you surprised this is a bad year? Because that tells me you're not paying attention. Gillis spent what, $2-3m on free agents this offseason? And he got a top six forward and a middling third line center with that money. The fact that the team isn't doing worse is actually pretty remarkable.

If the team can't create enough flexibility to make significant improvements in the offseason, I will certainly question what's going on with management. But - and I've said this before, I'll say it again now even though people who want to believe the GM is incompetent will continue to do so regardless - it's not surprising that a team spending as much cap money as they were three seasons ago (and with remaining players eating up an additional 10% of the cap on extensions) has been unable to keep pace.

edit: and since you bring up Hodgson.. 10 goals at $4.5m vs. 9 goals at $870 000. You think Cody brings five times more utility than Kassian to the table? Tell us which $3.6m in salary you'd cut from this team to make swapping the two players back an improvement.

Last edited by dbr on Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

Mondi wrote:Fair enough, I wasn't trying to single you out for doing the old "you're not a fan if you complain routine." But, I was attacking that particular straw man (I think he exists out there).

I think we are all frustrated with how the team has evolved the last 3 or 4 years. And, I am personally frustrated with the way in the team has gone from an offensive juggernaut to a minnow, largely with the same crew up front. The response from Gillis has been trading strong offensive secondary players for pluggers.

I mean there was a time when Kesler, Burrows and the Twins were flanked by 3 to 4 more scoring forwards. Today we are praying that guys like Santorelli, Higgins, and Kassian can provide "secondary scoring".

It has been clear since around the time Hodgson was traded that this team doesn't have the right mix of offensive players (or enough offence). But we continue to dress a lineup with only three or four players who are a threat to score. That is what bugs me about GMMG and this team.

Mondi wrote:Fair enough, I wasn't trying to single you out for doing the old "you're not a fan if you complain routine." But, I was attacking that particular straw man (I think he exists out there).

I think we are all frustrated with how the team has evolved the last 3 or 4 years. And, I am personally frustrated with the way in the team has gone from an offensive juggernaut to a minnow, largely with the same crew up front. The response from Gillis has been trading strong offensive secondary players for pluggers.

I mean there was a time when Kesler, Burrows and the Twins were flanked by 3 to 4 more scoring forwards. Today we are praying that guys like Santorelli, Higgins, and Kassian can provide "secondary scoring".

It has been clear since around the time Hodgson was traded that this team doesn't have the right mix of offensive players (or enough offence). But we continue to dress a lineup with only three or four players who are a threat to score. That is what bugs me about GMMG and this team.

This^

"I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? - Plastics." - The Graduate

I expect a fine for Hartley for his starting lineup. No one is buying his excuse that they were started for their scoring prowess even before Westgarth's post game interview contradicting Hartley.

It will be interesting if Tortorella is singled out for his lineup. Opponent starting their 4rth line goon squad in your barn has to be responded to. For the brawl at the start of the game, blame is primarily on Hartley, but Tortorella isn't clear on that one.

Tortorella is in deep for the post 1st period wander over to the Flames dressing room. Hefty fine, possible suspension.

Also expect the Canucks to face a hefty fine for not having security in place to prevent Tortorella from getting to the Flames room.

Interesting comment on TSN's The Reporters describing the Flames as one of the worst teams in the league and one of the least talented teams in the league.

I can't help but wonder what line AV would have started the game with. A big part of me thinks he would have thrown the Sedins out there and it would have been ugly.

I'm not sure why JT is beating himself up so much over putting Lain out there. He is a 6'6 giant known for his physicality in college and would have fared better vs Westgarth than Bieksa. I know it was his first NHL game but it's not like he didn't know what he was signing up for.

Kassian is an excellent passer when he doesn't take stupid risks on the breakout, I would put him up as our third best playmaking forward after the Sedins. Obviously his puck protection is also very good, especially when he's all fired up and engaged in the game. I just hope he stops yapping before the play because officials are using any excuse right now to give him 10 minute misconducts. When he learns to let his skills and physicality do the talking rather than his mouth he could become and excellent player for us.