Sagging is a very normal thing in "urban" (black/white/hispanic/asian basically youth) culture, so someone in a public setting asking him not to sag must have sounded ridiculous to him as it does to me since I'm young and black too. Because of this, his surprised reaction might have looked defiant. Imaging if someone told you to, I dunno, button up a shirt you hadn't buttoned all the way up or something like that. I mean, you would expect that from your teacher or your boss, not a flight attendendant. Besides, even if he was being defiant, I didn't know planes had a dress code different from any other public setting. Are they really authorized to arrest someone if he doesn't take fashion advice? Don't know the full story here, maybe his ass (not boxers) was showing?

The pants were below the buttocks, which some people - say you have a little girl on the plane - might consider offensive.

I'm sure that there is truth to both sides of the issue, but I think this is more an abuse of power than a race issue.

In my life, I remember walking to the register at Wal-Mart to buy a 12 pack of beer. The cashier tells me that my ID is fake and that she will not serve to a minor who has already been drinking. The ID was real and I hadn't had a drop. I argued with her and she threatened to call the cops. I asked to talk to her manager, who repeated the cashier's line. I argued for another minute or so before storming out. People just dig in when it comes to an argument even if they are wrong and it gets blown out of proportion.

I'm sure that the kid thought it was a ridiculous request and was defiant. Depending on the level of "sag", perhaps he was justified. But that probably set off the airline employees who then felt disrespected and wanted to prove a point and took it too far.

Could race have been an issue? Maybe. But as in most cases, I think that is just the issue that will make for the most read headlines rather than the actual issue.

It would be interesting to see the conversation between him and the flight attendant. Obviously we caught the tail end of the exchange, but from what I see, US Airways may soon have a PR problem on their hands.

That's what I think too. It's their plane, and they can kick him off of it, but this video makes them look awfully stupid for doing so. Unless there was a pretty serious issue with the flight attendant before this video was shot that they can tell, this doesn't look good for them.

I'm old, I'm caucasian, and think sagging is stupid. In other words, taking human nature into account, I have every reason to side with the airline on this one. Everything, that is, except my sense of what is right and what is wrong.

From the video and from any accounts I have heard or read about so far, I fully believe that a young man's civil rights were violated, and I hope he is able to sue for enough money to buy his own airline. I'm glad there is video, and I hope the ACLU gets involved. I'm also glad he "sir'd" the security idiots to death during the verbal exchange. I hope they are already fired.

Get wronged by a guy on the bottom rung of the cooperate ladder and sue for 100,000 times the value of the damages incurred. I won't say anything good about US Airways though. Flying with them is a guaranteed 2 hour delay on the connection in Charlotte.

If that happens, it'll prevent ridiculous crap like this from happening in the future.

As for the "bottom rung of the corporate ladder" comment, the pilot (or whoever threw him off the plane) was in a decision making capacity and made an awful, awful decision. That's such a blatantly egregious lack of judgment that it demonstrates a serious lapse in the way US Airways selects employees to function in such a capacity, the guidelines they give those employees in their decision making, or both.

The kid could've been flying home to go to a sibling's birthday party. Or a funeral for a relative. Or some sort of other family ocassion that he may have missed due to the airlines asinine behavior. Or, if he wasn't, it may happen to someone who's in a scenario like that in the future, if an example isn't made of the airline.

Bottom line: If you're gonna be an asshole, be prepared fo consequences.

Let the man fly. That was unnecessary. How someone dresses has nothing to do with what kind of person they are. The guy was pleading his case, but they weren't having it. From the conversation it doesn't sound like something serious was said to the flight attendant before the video was rolling. If there was a serious issue ... they would have yanked his ass off the flight without the captain there.

Was kicked off a plane a few days ago in detroit for saying the 'What's taking so fucking long to close the overhead compartments?', not to the flight attendants however, but to no one in particular. But the flight attendants still made him leave the plane.

It just seems like a strange coincidence that these two stories happened in the same week. It makes me think that the flight attendants have become some sort of moral police.

Ever since 9/11 the flight attendants think they're gestapo agents. I can understand why TSA might be jumpy at times, but the way some flight attendants try to exert their authority is just ridiculous.

One time, I accidentally sat one row in front of where I was supposed to and had put my ticket inside my carry on. When the dude that was supposed to seat on the chair I was arrived(late) I stood up and tried to sit where I was supposed to. To my bad luck, some little kid had sat in the chair I was supposed to seat.... The flight attendants came running in like a peloton of drill instructors yelling at me to get my ticket. They were threatening me saying that if I didn't find my ticket within 10 seconds they'd kick me off the plane.... worst experience ever.. they made me feel like I was some sort of terrorist.

This is a complete overreaction and a HUGE abuse of authority by the flight crew. It has nothing to do with passenger safety, and once he sat down he was the furthest thing from a delay or distraction. Unless there were something that hasn't been reported, this isn't defensible.

I'll be That Guy... I call 'selective treatment based on physical characteristics.'

Maybe since I am college aged I view that situation as much more rediculous than an older person. But he seems as respectful and calm as someone can possibly be when trying to be escorted off a plane by police. It seems pretty rediculous that he got kicked off.

"As﻿ a teammate of Marman's, I've seen him sag his pants everyday. Do I agree with how he wears him no, but as a black male, my pants aren't right on my hips either. I have white teammates that sag the same way Marman does on a daily basis no matter what they're wearing. This all was really unnecessary. He's missing summer school and workouts becuase of,PANTS! Pants? Come on we talkin bout pants.Not a bomb, not a gun, not hazardous chemicals. We talkin bout,PANTS!! Hey America!! Grow Up!!!" -405animal

I have to agree with this guy. Unless it posed a direct threat to the safety of other passengers, which I don't see how it could have, they went overboard. Someone needs to take these people down a notch. Damned rent-a-cops.

Did you happen to read some of the other youtube comments? Unbelievable the things that some ignorant people will say--attacking this kid's character and making assumptions based on a 3:00 clip where he is nothing but respectful and calm. I am a mid-30s white male and no one can convinve me that these comments were not racially motivated--and you would be hard pressed to convince me that this incident on the plane was not racially motivated also.

Like Osi said about LaSean McCoy--Twitter Gangster. It is really easy to say crap like that on a message board, especially an anonymous one. The worst is that guy probably sits at home pretty proud of himself about his comments.

Like Osi said about LaSean McCoy--Twitter Gangster. It is really easy to say crap like that on a message board, especially an anonymous one. The worst is that guy probably sits at home pretty proud of himself about his comments.

"Vic Lee, a reporter for television station KGO in San Francisco, filed a report that was aired Thursday night by KOAT-TV in Albuquerque. Lee said Marman told him he wanted to comply with a flight attendant’s request to hitch up his pants as he boarded the US Airways flight.

“I said `Yes ma’am,’” Marman is quoted as saying. “I tried to pull (his pants) up but I couldn’t because I was carrying two big bags and I was in a line of people all moving fast toward the plane.”

Marman said he boarded the aircraft and pulled up his pants, but that a flight attendant told him to get off the plane. Marman refused, he said, saying he’d done nothing wrong.

Marman said he then was told by a plain-clothes police officer that if he agreed to get off the plane his ticket would be refunded. He agreed and left the aircraft, he said, then was rushed by police, handcuffed, and taken to the San Mateo County Jail.""

the cop basically coerced him with a lie. This young man may end up with a nice chunk of change in the end because some haters saw a chance to excercise some little bit of power over someone they disliked for, let us say. . . symbolic reasons.

but he MIGHT be able to sue the pilot for violation of his constitutional rights under 42 U.S.C. 1983. It is usually reserved for public actors, but liability can extend to private actors when they do stuff typically done by state actors (such as security guards).

Regardless of whether he can sue under 1983, he can probably sue under various state provisions, file complaints with the FAA, and generally make this airline regret the day they hired the guy who doesn't care for saggy pants.

due to the fact that the incident was unrelated to his football career (except for the fact that he was going to the funeral of an old football friend), so he would not be profiting from playing for New Mexico.

I don't know. That's why I asked (and I'm not sure how it qualifies as "flamebaiting)". Would the NCAA allow student-athletes to receive cash settlements, or would it feel that they would be profitng from the publicity generated by the fact that they are athletes? In this case, if he weren't an athlete, we probably would have never heard of this story.

He got HANDCUFFED for this too. Obviously the video isn't everything that happened, but Marman was clearly out of control in the video. Who knows what he was gonna do. One second he's calling the stewardess ma'am and the next he'd probably call her his bitch with that infernal rappy music blaring on his ipod. Thank God the authoritities took all reasonable measures to deal with this...problem.

How is blueinlansing being a racist douche? Or are you talking about the pilot/flight attendant? Also, after watching the video, I think as much as racism, this could be a case of some assholes that are bitter about how their lives turned out decided to assert what little authority they had on a young person traveling alone to make them feel like they accomplished something with their lives.

No one on this board knows what really happened before the video. As a high school teacher, I have often experienced, from white and black guys, comments similar to what Marman says he said, but with a tone similar to "Screw you, I'll do what I want" in response to simple, polite requests. Now he may or may not have done that, but that tone and continuing along business as usual would irk the airline as it would a teacher.

But even everything was exactly as he said, "racist" is totally the wrong card to play here. Just a couple comments up someone was mentioning about a guy getting kicked off a plane for swearing. One can be anal about their job without being racist. And certainly the comment above isn't racist. Most likely they asked him off the plane bc they perceived him being defiant and disrespectful, whether he was or not. Geez guys, we're starting to look like the part of culture I hate here with these comments.
Let's slow down.

As much as you may not want to believe it, race is at the center of the "sagging pants" debate. Yes, white kids do it too, but it was started in inner city culture, and that is what people relate it to. The objection is not to seeing people's underwear, because you would get the same reaction if you wore gym shorts under your pants. The objection is to what people believe baggy pants signify in an individual-- the "screw you" attitude you mentioned above.

You may not consider it a race issue, but that is exactly what it is. The entire argument against sagging pants began because it scared people who were not used to it. It's not due to sanitary reasons, or fashion reasons, but rather what the fashion trend represents (or started out representing).

The same pattern applies to rap music. No one is forcing you to listen to it if you don't like it. Yet people still argue against it, because it scares them. Nobody wants to ban rap because it isn't "music," but rather the culture that it stemmed from and has grown to represent is something foreign and scary to them.

On what was communicated, I don't think this is an issue of baggy pants at all. If he expressed disrespect, even defiance, by dismissing them "on his own terms" (the idea that I'll do what I want and address it when I want) which his statement seems to say it was not, may have been what they perceived. At that point the issue has nothing to do with baggy pants or skirts too short, but only with disrespect.
Idk, cuz I've never tested the limits. When the attendant comes up to me and asks me to shut down my phone or put on my seat belt I do it then and say yes ma'am. I don't say I'll get to it or don't worry about it, and go back to typing. It's as much about seat belts and phones as it is about pants, which is to say, not at all.

From my understanding, there was a line of people behind him pushing to get on the plane (we all know how much pushing goes on there) and he didn't have an extra hand to pull his pants up. He said he would do it when he got to his seat, which according to him, he did. Apparently that wasn't enough and he was arrested.

Now, like you said, I don't know the entire story, as I wasn't there, but this is what I have gathered from reading about it. If I'm wrong, please correct me, but from all I have read he tried to cooperate to the best of his ability, but that wasn't enough for the flight crew on a power trip.

Exactly, I think this is the problem here. It could be a case of racism, but I've seen flight crews and other people in similar lines of employment go on power trips like this all the time regardless of the person on the receiving end's race. I think people are too quick to pull the race card just b/c the person is black. I mean did anyone pull the race card in the case of the girl with the short skirt?

I've been away, but I agree with you there. That's different than the grounds that a lot of people have discussed. It's unfortunate that when a police officer is called in to dismiss someone, no matter how respectful they are, the officer rarely backs down. Idk if it's a matter of pride or of worrying about what may happen later or of overly tight regulations, but if there's an issue, I think that is it.
A cop and a captain not wanting to back down when they'd already hung their junk out there. Would've been a good time to say "okay, please be respectful the remainder of the flight." You bet your bootie he would've after that scare too.

see the problem. He kept his cool and was respectful. He fixed his pants once he got to his seat and didn't seem to bother anyone. There are a lot more concerning things that the airline industry needs to consider than harassing this guy.

it because the airline says so. Cool; I don't take that position. But where do you get that he was being an ass? Not from the video, at least for me. I would have been a lot more pissed off than that. Some people take the position that you don't question authority. I don't; that's not the way I was raised, not the way I am raising my kids.

I didn't, of course, say you HADN'T noted it was an over-reaction, so--possibly--this reading comprehension charge is inapropriately applied. I objected to almost everything else about your post, in the most straightforward, fact-based manner that I could.

As for the arrest...once you don't do what the flight crew tells you to do, you get arrested. At that point it's not about the fact that his butt is hanging out.

Look, I have plenty of respect for authority and the rule of law, but that statement is patently ridiculous. You have to follow the flight crew's instructions when those instructions are within the crew's power to demand. They say "sit down," you sit down. They say "stop trying t throw the peanuts into the flight attendant's cleavage," you put the peanuts down. They say "stop trying to have sex in the bathroom"... well, they don't have much of a sense of adventure.

But when they say something that is completely outside the scope of their authority, the passenger is under NO obligation to oblige. If they said to him, "turn your hat around," he doesn't have to. If they say "jump," he doesn't have to. It is clear from the video that once he is in his seat, he has pulled up his pants, and is in no way interfering with the flight crew or being a danger or distraction to anyone. There is NO grounds to then remove him from the flight.

A) Correct. Telling a kid to pull up his pants is not inherently racist. It isn't necessarily the purvue of a flight attendant, but whatever. What DOES cause me to cock an eyebrow is that they made this much of a big deal about it.

B) The story seems to be that he was asked to pull them up, but he got to his seat before he did so.

C) Wrong. There is most likely a lawsuit to be had here (whether he sues is another matter; it wouldn't be worth that much). An airline does no have "absolute authority." They can't kick people off for being Muslim, or for being black, or if they don't like the cut of their jib. Civil rights laws still apply. And they can't arrest people (which the pilot did, via citizen's arrest) for failing to follow a ridiculous request that is unrelated to their powers to ensure the safety and orderly nature of a flight.

If they had ordered him to "take those damn dreads out and comb his hair like a normal person," and he refused, could they arrest him?

How ironic this occurred in San Francisco, seemingly one of the most laid back and tolerant places on the planet. Idiocy can happen anywhere. It is amazing what happens when situations ratchet out of control. This never should have happened. I wonder if the flight attendant would have been satisfied if he had stopped the whole line, put his bags down, hitched his pants, and then got on the plane. He was put in a lose - lose situation.

The young man certainly didn't hurt his case with his actions on the video.

Based on news coverage it seems like the airline employee was being a bit too strident in demanding that the guy pull his pants up immediately. I'm not sure whether the pants pulled down style violates a reasonable standard of indecency, but it probably wasn't so egregious that she had to insist on immediate compliance.

I don't like the style, but I really dislike front-line employees who are power-mad. Yanking the kid off the plane (or tricking him into willingly getting off by lying to him), handcuffing and arresting him seems way out of line.

Sure, if he just did what she told him to do the situation would have ended, but this was not a situation that required immediate snap-to, no-questions-asked compliance. Remedial training is in order for the gate attendant. The bigger error was on the part of the airline (and the police).

Hope the kid gets an apology (doubtful) and wins a lawsuit (possible). The airline will ccertainly lose the PR battle.

Anyone in the air line industry please humour me and explain why checking his boarding pass after he's already on a plane? What difference will that make? Also lost in this is the person shutting down the person filming (watched this on my phone volume wasn't good), not really sure what was said but last I checked that person can film whatever they want. This player is going to be walking into some serious cash soon. I know the police lying to him about the refund will probably be tough to prove but what reasonable grounds did they have to arrest him? I'd really be curious to see what they charged him with.

Note first of all that I think this is ridiculous and everyone involved (except the player, obvs.) should get sacked.

Could the supposed objetion to saggy pants on an airline flight be safety related? i.e. someone with their pants sagged can't move as fast / may be a tripping hazard in an emergency? Is that an argument the airline could legitimately make?

Of course, that would only "justify" their initial request, not their subsequent behavior.

Semi-related unhip question: Having been out of the "youth culture" for a spell, at what point did the saggy pants style go from "wear baggy jeans that show a couple inches of boxers" to literally belting your pants below the ass cheeks? It seems to have reached a certain level of ridiculousness. The (possibly apocryphal) explanation I always hear for the style is that prison inmates are given ill-fitting clothes and are not allowed to have belts, resulting in a sagged look by necessity - the "urban" sag style is thus a sort of show of solidarity. The current extremely sagged style seems to jump the shark on that one since now a belt is required to hold the pants on the upper thighs.

Also, any male who sags skinny jeans should be whacked upside the head /get off my lawn

He was getting too preachy. It sounds like he just wanted to rant against other black people really. Did he watch the video? How did the young man set them back? By being polite and respectful? It seems like he complied with the request to raise his pants, he just couldn't figure out why he was being kicked off a flight.

Maybe. We've all been confronted by people on power trips, and more often than not we give in even if we are in the right. That's fine.

But legally speaking, what does it matter if he was respectful? Why does it matter that he didn't comply? In this country, you don't get to arrest people because they are disrespectful. The bigger threat to society is not young whippersnappers with their pants around their ankles; the bigger threat is the unbridled power of authority figures to punish whatever conduct they don't like.

No one is in the right here... but the kid's actions are forgiveable. The flight crews actions are not.

I don't even think the airline's actions were that terrible. If (and this is just speculation) they were catering to other customers who had a problem with his pants, what are they supposed to do? Kicking him off the plane seems ridiculous, but it's their plane and they should be able to do what they want.

The TSA or Air Marshal or whoever arrested him was way out of line though, there just isn't an excuse for that assuming we know most of the story.

But it seems unlikely that a customer complaint would reach the flight attendant before he boarded. And I don't even really have a problem with them asking him to hike up the pants, because, you know, ass and everything.

I meant it in more of a "we have a policy to ask" way, kind of like a nice restaurant might have a no hat policy or something similar. I agree though, things were fine until the airline and the police went nuts.