Norma,Thanks, it was my best one so far. I finally got to taste the caramelization of the cheese around the edge. I proofed the dough in a 90° oven because I didn't have much time. It worked out pretty well. I'm still amazed how small changes in the process cause big differences in the finished product.

Norma,Thanks, it was my best one so far. I finally got to taste the caramelization of the cheese around the edge. I proofed the dough in a 90° oven because I didn't have much time. It worked out pretty well. I'm still amazed how small changes in the process cause big differences in the finished product.

Jay,

I am glad you finally got to taste the caramelization of the cheese around the edges. I think that is one of the best parts about a Detroit style pizza. I do temper my doughs in the heated case at market and the doughs do ferment pretty fast. Your idea to temper in the oven was good. I agree that small changes in the process can cause big differences in a finished Detroit style pizza.

Not sure, but I'll bet they are commonly availabale. PM your address to me and I'll send you one of the ones I got! Free!

John K

John,

Just thought you'd like to know: I did find the 8 x 8 pans at TJ Maxx in NYC. Not only that, but I found a 9 x 13 size for, I think, $7.99. I could be mis-remembering that, but I do remember being impressed by how cheap they were. So, in case you didn't know, if you want to make a large DS pizza, there's a pan for you!

JetBoy,The spice amounts look pretty good on that sauce. I would omit the oil and not cook the sauce. It needs cut by at least maybe 50% with water.

I have to say, I've been happiest with 6-in1 all-purpose ground tomatoes in heavy puree, straight out of the can. But for a more traditional - and simple - sauce that I also use sometimes, you can't go wrong with Jim Lahey's basic tomato sauce in his book, My Pizza:

I just take the tomatoes out of the can (but don't discard the juice in which the tomatoes were packed; you might want to add some back in, depending on the final consistency you want), squish 'em in my hands in a bowl, add the other ingredients and stir.

Also, one thing I learned: the brand of tomato makes a big difference. I had been using San Marzano tomatoes, even buying DOP San Marzano tomatoes from an Italian specialties store. Then I read a review, in some cooking magazine, comparing whole canned tomatoes. Muir Glen came in first, followed by Hunt's (and Hunt's came in first for diced tomatoes). Muir Glen seems a bit pricey, while 28 oz. Hunt's is often on sale here in NYC for 99 cents/can, so I tried Hunts, found it to be much better and now it's the only brand I'll use.

I worked at Buddy's for four years! This was twenty years ago so I honestly don't remember the dough recipe. I do remember that we made it at 8:00 am every morning. It was made fresh every day for that day only. The dough was mixed in the mixer, then we portioned it. After it was portioned into the pans it was stretched twice. This is where the double kneading comes in! Once to get it close to the edges of the pans then the second stretch to 'fit" the pans. We then added pepperoni to some and then topped them all with cheese. The timing was everything. It needed the rest time between stretches so the large batch size made that possible. It took three hours every day to do this. The busier the day the more hands were used to make it happen. Still always three hours. Wish I had the recipe for ya! The pans made a HUGE difference as well. They were all seasoned at one location then delivered to the stores when needed. In the four years I worked there we only had one delivery of new pans. It was a big deal for only a couple dozen pans. We had to go through all 300 pans and replaced only 24 that were too bent up for use. The pans were oiled before every portioned dough was added. This helped keep the dough and cheese from sticking.

As with Norma, I am also interested in whether Buddy's used/uses salt in their dough. The Buddy's Nutrition information as given at their website at http://www.buddyspizza.com/nutrition.asp?Category=3 suggests very low levels of sodium in the Buddy's dough. The FDA is very strict about how sodium is reported, and sodium is not the type of nutrient that gets destroyed or modified during baking, so according to my analysis either the Buddy's Sodium levels as reported are wrong or are calculated incorrectly or in some unusual way. I raised this issue with Buddy's and they responded with this statement: We have no reason to believe the information on our website is inaccurate. Please note there is a statement below the nutritional information on our website that has further information.... Buddy's is not required by law to provide Nutrition Facts as is required of packaged goods but if they are going to provide something that is a semblance of Nutrition Facts, the information should be correct in my opinion.

Do I understand you correctly, then, that if I want to pursue my dream of opening a Detroit style pizzeria, I will need to buy 300 pans? 150 8x10 and 150 10x14?

And all 300 pans were filled with dough in the morning?

How many times were the 300 pans refilled during the day - i.e., how many pizzas did you serve per day?

What oil did you use to oil the pans?

Some days more, some days less. Depending on the day. It was open for quite a few years before I got there so predicting sales was pretty accurate. It was a very busy restaurant. We stretched all the dough for the entire day in the morning. Any left over at the end of the day were pitched.

The oil was a basic vegetable oil. The pans were seasoned at a different location and sent to us. If I recall they were filled with oil then ran through a pizza oven at very high heat. Thats all I know.

Just adding my two cents. I have been tinkering with the recipe posted by PizzaHog in reply 199. I had the same problem that others have discussed where the bottom of the crust is pale and not crispy or even firm at all. I had somewhat of a breakthrough last night and got a nice crispy crust on the bottom. Here was my setup:

- Placed oven rack to the lowest rack directly over the exposed heating element at the bottom of the oven. Placed my pizza stone on the rack- Preheated to 475 and let it preheat for a good half hour or so.- Put the pan on the stone and bake for about 17-18 minutes.

The cheese around the edge did not start to brown/burn, but that was about as long as I felt I could let it go. The crust on the bottom was pretty good, not really crispy/fried like you might find at Jet's, but a definitely a little bit of crunch on the bottom crust.

I am guessing this works better than just placing the pan on an oven rack without a pizza stone b/c the stone conducts heat better into the pan/crust, causing the crust to cook faster & hotter.

I've just spent the weekend reading over this thread and while I don't have any awesome stories of growing up eating at the original locations, I have had my fair share of pizzas from Buddy's in Livonia & Farmington Hills as well as the Shield's in Troy. Living in SC now, I can't get anything like it and although I stop for a pizza when I'm back in Detroit, it just isn't enough!

I'd like to start out with saying I'm extremely new to baking anything that doesn't come out of a box or prepackaged/frozen, so much of this has gone over my head and I apologize in advance for any questions that seem really basic!

I know after reading through the thread that all-purpose flour isn't what's used and I know one poster said that they were planning on trying KASL (the glossary is a lifesaver!), but I see that it is available only in very large quantities. How would the KA high gluten flour and/or the KA perfect pizza blend flours compare? (Ignore the recipes on the labels.)

I know post 199 has been the go to recipe for some time for being able to get the proper crust and the Detroit News recipe has been thrown out, but there's a recipe on the Cooking Channel's website that supposedly is directly from Buddy's and is what led me on my path to this forum in the first place? Any thoughts on that recipe? (http://www.cookingchanneltv.com/recipes/buddys-cheese-pizza.html)

Thanks so much for all of the information so far and all of the effort you've put into recreating it! I've learned a lot already!

The difference between KASL and their "Perfect Pizza Blend" is that you can make a pizza with KASL

If you actually have PPB on hand and you want to try the recipe on the package, it translates to:

Flour - 100%Water - 65%IDY - 1.4%Salt - 1.6%Oil - 2%

I tossed my bag after trying to make pizza with it using that recipe and several other standard formulations. It is probably best used as bench flour.

Finding high gluten flour such as KASL at a supermarket is nearly impossible. Many feel that KASL is a bit too high in gluten and too chewy. You can substitute Pillsbury Bread Flour, Gold Medal Better for Bread Flour or King Arthur Bread Flour (listed in my order of preference) for recipes that call for KASL. You'll just have to knock down the water in the formulation by 1-2% and you should be fine.

I tried this recipe (reply #199) a while back and while it was delicious, I wasn't happy with the crisping of the crust - especially in the middle. I suspect my oven may have something to do with it (gas, burner recessed underneath). I have the blue steel pans from Detroit Style Pizza Co.

Are people having better luck with lower temp/longer bake time? I also considered throwing the pans on top of my 1/2" pre-heated steal I use for NY?

I tried this recipe (reply #199) a while back and while it was delicious, I wasn't happy with the crisping of the crust - especially in the middle. I suspect my oven may have something to do with it (gas, burner recessed underneath). I have the blue steel pans from Detroit Style Pizza Co.

Are people having better luck with lower temp/longer bake time? I also considered throwing the pans on top of my 1/2" pre-heated steal I use for NY?

Thanks

Triglet,

What rack position are you using and what bake temperature did you try?

Norma,I followed Hog's directions -- "bake on bottom oven rack for 15 min at 475". Pretty sure I went even longer than 15 mins because I could tell it wasn't done, to the point where when I was trying to get it out of the pan it was falling apart because it was under cooked. Can't help but think everyone's exposed electric element gives a huge radiant heat boost to the pan whereas a recessed gas burner doesn't have that.

Norma,I followed Hog's directions -- "bake on bottom oven rack for 15 min at 475". Pretty sure I went even longer than 15 mins because I could tell it wasn't done, to the point where when I was trying to get it out of the pan it was falling apart because it was under cooked. Can't help but think everyone's exposed electric element gives a huge radiant heat boost to the pan whereas a recessed gas burner doesn't have that.

Did you try to bake on a pizza stone? I really don't think your gas oven is the problem. I have other Detroit style pizzas I made on the above thread in my home oven and they turned out okay. Do you have an IR gun?

There are some posts near the end of the that thread how I make my Detroit style dough.

Norma,Thanks -- those links are gonna help. I'm gonna do a test run in the next few days using a pizza stone I have and I'll report back with results. I do have an IR gun so I'll shoot some temps to help figure this out. Got some people coming over this weekend and I wanted to make this again but don't want to have the semi-disaster I had last time!

Norma,Thanks -- those links are gonna help. I'm gonna do a test run in the next few days using a pizza stone I have and I'll report back with results. I do have an IR gun so I'll shoot some temps to help figure this out. Got some people coming over this weekend and I wanted to make this again but don't want to have the semi-disaster I had last time!

Thanks again

Triglet,

Good luck! If you need any other help or links to where I made Detroit style pizzas in my home oven let me know.

Anyone here from Detroit? Anyone familiar with Buddy's Pizza or Shield's Pizza? It's similar to Sicilian, but not identical. Any idea of what the recipe would be, at least for the dough?

I work at a local shop that makes Detroit style pizza, and here is some of the stuff we've learned over the years:

1) Many people will tell you to that you need alot of oil to get that fried texture on the bottom. That is not so. A thin layer of oil is all you need.

2) Less important than your recipe is making sure you have good blue steeled pans with a good gauge.

3) The dough is nowhere near important as with other styles. Our shop is pretty crappy, I won't lie, but at home (I plan to open my own shop someday), I basically use a normal Neopolitan dough, but I add about 1/2 cups of good olive oil for ever 5 cups of flour. Oil the pan, stretch the dough to fit, give it a gentle mist of water on the top, and then cover and allow to sit for an hour or so.... then I restretch in the pan, and I use my fingertips to press holes ALL over it (all the way to the pan), to prevent it from ballooning, basically docking it while it's in the pan. Then top, and bake at 500 degrees (i have a convenction oven at home but it may very) on very the bottom rack, for about 9-10 minutes. For a commercial oven though, especially a conveyor or something that runs dryer, usually the pan would be covered with a flat steel cooking tray and put it in the oven for about 3.5 minutes, then taken out, the cover removed, and ran through the oven for about 7 minutes.