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Topic Review (Newest First)

10-28-2003 11:08 AM

JimW

Medic3,
Chris?

Nice fish period, especially on the fly and especially in my neck of the woods. Were you using an eel imitation?

10-28-2003 08:40 AM

DFix

I've been busy with some important home repairs of late, and didn't get time blocked out to make a few of these for distribution. What I hope to get done in the next week or so is a few, to be sent to Juro, Adrian, Jay and Striblue - Juro and Adrian, 'cuz they're seemingly best equipped, logistically, to give them a run south of here; Jay and John, 'cuz they have photo abilities (if not time to fish as well) that I don't, and maybe they'd photo and post the thing so we could give a look-see all around - that's the best I can offer for the moment.

P.S. - I think I have to modify it a bit, based on what Jay threw in.

10-26-2003 01:16 PM

medic3

the fish was caught on the south shore of mass while wading, dropping tide with a low at 6 am. i was fishing with a friend using live eels who landed 3 fish that morning before i hooked up, all in the 30# class, released....i hooked up shortly thereafter, fish took in 3' of water 20 ' in front of me and promptly put me well into the backing, we played give and take for around 15 minutes, although it felt like an hour, and was finally able to ease it into the wash were it was landed, weighed on friends scale and quickly released, she swam off slowly and hopefully is alive and well today....and it was the end of october, 38 degrees out with a hard west wind which was helpful with casting. I think the eel is your best bet for imitating a large bait, not bulky and wind resistant, and the cows love 'em.... my biggest is 54, on a live eel, before i was introduced to the long wand....oh, and that fish went back too....

10-26-2003 10:55 AM

FrenchCreek

Good discussion by the Big Fly Buff's, not to be confused with DblHaul's local night spot.
How about posting pictures of those big flies so that the rest of us uninitiated can SEE waht your are talking about?
It could aslo inspire further developments by variations on a given theme. For me, it coud inspire additional Pike patterns.
Friday was likely the last day of Pike fishing for me, weather predictions are for -15Celsius this coming Thursday. We fished with patterns ranging from 4 inches up to 8 inches, all the while trying to keep the presentation depth, area fished etc. the same with different flies. Clearly the larger flies got us the larger flies.
In the spring, it's almost the opposite, smaller flies get larger fish and larger flies either don't work well or only attract smaller fish. I think it is clearly related to both the bait size in each season as well as the feeding habit/purpose/food availability in each season. More hatchlings are around in the spring while more spawing (larger) whitefish are around in the fall. I have very similar experiences with trout, in the fall whne they are beefing up, I find large streamers get more big fish than small nymphs, the reverse applies in the spring.

10-26-2003 10:38 AM

2HandTheSalt

Quote:

Originally posted by medic3 the problem with extra long flatwings like the eel punt is the hackle tends to want to foul around the hook, i personally have a half dozen foot long yak hair eel flies that i throw 50-60 feet with a 450 grain depth charge line with a 10#, best results for me anyway is if you let the loop open up a bit, slow down the casting stroke as if you were chucking nymphs with a few pieces of shot, stiff, short 20-30lb staight leader of about 3' in length....i can't throw it a country mile, but then again, at 4 am the cows are at my feet.....47lbs is my top fish, from terra firma, or at least terra damp.....

medic, are you saying that you have a 47 on the fly?

If so, congrats on that fish and how about some more details, ( Not location-related?)

10-26-2003 07:30 AM

peter-s-c

I feel a bit awkward jumping into this discussion

as I fish stripers only occasionally. However, this discussion is the same one that plagues pike/musky fly fishermen. Bigger flies = bigger fish. I currently tie a yak pike fly that I call a Yak 9 that imitates a perch or small bass in the 6"-7" range. I'm planning on two flies next season, a 12" musky fly that uses the whole yak hank and a fly I'll call a cross wing for the lack of a better name.

The crosswing is just in the fiddling-about stage but the idea popped up when reading an aerticle in Fly Tyer on flatwings. I'd tie my yak fly but at the mid point, I'll tie ina few saddle hackels i a flatwing config, then continue with the yak over that, producing a + cross section that should give the fly a bulky appearance when viewed from any angle.

10-26-2003 07:01 AM

medic3

the problem with extra long flatwings like the eel punt is the hackle tends to want to foul around the hook, i personally have a half dozen foot long yak hair eel flies that i throw 50-60 feet with a 450 grain depth charge line with a 10#, best results for me anyway is if you let the loop open up a bit, slow down the casting stroke as if you were chucking nymphs with a few pieces of shot, stiff, short 20-30lb staight leader of about 3' in length....i can't throw it a country mile, but then again, at 4 am the cows are at my feet.....47lbs is my top fish, from terra firma, or at least terra damp.....

10-24-2003 02:02 PM

Dble Haul

Overgrown boobies at night? Sounds like a nightclub I used to frequent...

Wish I could join you guys, because Juro definitely piqued my interest with the two handers on South Monomoy. My folks are down this weekend, and I might get my dad out for a while. If you hear screams coming from the shores of Waterford across the state line in CT, you'll know we intercepted some fish.

Have fun, and I hope you get into some fish to boot!

10-24-2003 01:34 PM

Adrian

Q,

Superlong flatwings are one approach but they are designed to be drifted in the current (river or longshore) or worked fairly slowly - usually on floating lines. That way they create the illusion of bulk in the water. Strip 'em fast and you've got yourself a knigsize eel immitation - not the original idea but might also do the trick They do offer the advantage of being a bit easier to cast on a single handed rod.

I think there is lots of room for experimentation with both approaches - on/at the surface and down'ndirty.

Bulkier patterns that push water and setup vibes would seem to be an advantage in heavilly roiled/stained water. I would love to try some overgrown variations on the booby theme over the sandbars at dead of night.

See you all tommorow

10-23-2003 05:43 PM

Smcdermott

Wahoo!

Quentin,

That is a Wahoo I caught on my honeymoon on traditional gear. The full report is under the blue water board.

Sean

10-23-2003 05:33 PM

Quentin

Those super long flatwings are supposed to imitate larger bait. Do they seem to help to filter out some of the smaller fish and get the attention of the larger fish? Or does it seem like the big fish prefer a bulky fly that moves a lot of water?

Hey Sean, what kind of "twinkie" is that in your avatar?

Q

10-23-2003 04:23 PM

Smcdermott

The Slammer

This spring I was fishing the upper bay with Slinger targeting bass that were on full sized pogies. Slinger was using his trusted half and half and I went with a Sedotti Slammer. The results were that I caught fewer fish but much larger ones. I have had this experience enough times to think you do need size when the fish are targeting larger bait. Of course, I have found the same logic applies when they are targeting small baits (small flies). Match the hatch is where I always start. I am looking forward to working the two-hander in the surf. I hope to see a nice hearing run down the RI shore in November and I am guessing big flies will be the ticket.

Sean

10-23-2003 03:52 PM

2HandTheSalt

I find myself in the unlikely position of being nearly a hundred percent in agreement with Juro here

The line pretty much dictates what flies can be comfortabley thrown with it. You can go a bit bigger with the two-hander than with a one-hander of equal line-weight, but not gobs bigger. But you can throw a much bigger line with two-hands. How many are comfortable one-hand casting a 12-weight in the surf for a full tide?

Dave, I have a set of 14-weight shooting heads and a rod that might just do the deed. Bring some of those porpoise patterns down and we will give them a go.

Regarding the original question of the post. I have been saying for some time now that one of the most serious advantages of two-handers is that you can more comfortably work bigger lines and flies. Question" Why do those plug guys catch so many more big bass than the fly guys?

I think the answer is that there are not many fly fishermen getting big flies in front of big fish. At least, I am convinced of it.

It will take some more time to prove it, though......

10-23-2003 03:32 PM

Adrian

Some fo us fish with the virtual 12 inch surface plug too

This is very exciting stuff and what better time of year to be experimenting!

10-23-2003 03:24 PM

juro

Seriously about all this:

- they can definitely throw more 'matter' because they throw more grains for the same or less effort

- they can definitely handle much bigger fish because there is more power available in the rod

- they can definitely throw further for the same amount of energy once the stroke is learned, which is not difficult

- you can throw off either shoulder for a long way, often the whole line so excessive wind is not a big problem

- it's an open door ready to be explored for all it's possibilities... I am sure there will be a whole new suite of flies developed around two-handed surf fly fishing that would have been deemed impractical with a single hander. Who knows what line systems will evolve around it, just look at the Spey rods out west and the explosive evolution of lines and techniques.

From a more local perspective you could look at it this way...

Spin fishers don't have one rod/reel setup, they have at least two - a surf rod for livelining and eeling and a light rod for sluggos, yozuri's, etc. They don't try to throw a pogie on the light spin gear and they don't try to throw a sluggo on the surf rod.

When you think about it, we are all fishing the light spin rod with the virtual sluggo.

This rod is about having a surf fly rod for those times when you want to fish at the next level, a level that clearly exists in the ocean and has some real rewards associated with it for those who want to explore it.

There are certainly limits to what a few hundred grains can propell through the air. It may lead to a comfortably casting 13-14 weight Atlantis in the months to come, who knows. In the other direction we are working on the lighter version that takes the lines you already have, but it will take some time to complete the whole development and testing cycle. The prototype genII casts very well with the 325-350 grain lines already, but the standard intermediate clear tapers that are on the market nowadays aren't very good at loading rods. I suspect that's why most go up to 10wt lines for their intermediate lines on their 9wts.

If nothing else it's an adventure!

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