bdub77:DROxINxTHExWIND: bdub77: DROxINxTHExWIND: bdub77: The incompetence of the officers reminds me when I hear what sound like obvious gunshots coming from the wooded area behind my house. The police don't even bother to investigate when we call it in, they just say it's probably some kids lighting firecrackers.

Some day they are probably going to find like 40 bodies buried in the woods back there.

I'm going to have to be the guy who defends the police department, here. Hindsight is 20/20. How many threads do Farkers biatch about unlawful searches and dogs being killed by reckless S.W.A.T. teams? Now, we're going to go the other direction and say that a cop should treat every call like a possible child abduction? We have no idea how many prank or stupid calls that police departments receive where they waste their time and our money investigating bullshiat. We need to blame the folks who call 911 because the manager at Burger King won't super size their meal or the woman who calls because her daughter cursed at her. Int he story of the Boy who cried wolf, we didn't blame the townsfolk for being slow to respond. We blamed the boy who was carelessly alerting them for no reason.

There's a difference between unlawful search and following up on a call to police about women on leashes in someone's backyard. In the case of the sounds I've heard in my neighborhood, I can understand if the cops have seen evidence of firecrackers or know some kids that go back there for that purpose. On the other hand, you better damn well investigate something like women on leashes.

You have no idea what steps they took to investigate or follow up on this claim. For all we know, they positioned a squad car in the area to keep watch. They may have increased patrols. Or, in the absence of an immediate follow-up call or complaint, they may have thought it was a neighbor complaining about consensual activity that was visible, but taking place on another man's private property.

Well from the rep ...

These are the same people who ACTUALLY LIVE in the neighborhood where the house is and they all also said on the first day after this came out that it was a complete surprise and they were totally shocked that there were three girls inside. They also continue to interact with him after seeing a little girl in his attic window? Where was the follow up of the neighbors? And if this was totally shocking to the people who lived next to the house for ten years it should locigally tell you that he had them hidden pretty well and not much outside of a warrent and search of the house was going to find those girls. But, the police presumably did not have probable cause.

TheDirtyNacho:DNA sequencing of these guys' genome should be done. Amazing that 3 brothers seem to have the same sociopathic nature. Perhaps one day we can spot these people before they're born...

Brain scans too. There's already research been done on both fronts. This neuroscientist studied PET scans of normal people and violent psychopaths and found correlations between neural structures and behavior. The kicker: his family tree had some bad, violent folks, including Lizzy Borden, so he was talked in to checking his immediate family's PET scans. The scientist found his scan to look just like that of a serial killer's, as did several genes that have been associated violence.

Nature and nuture both can have profound effects on a person's development and adult behavior. With advances in genetics and neuroscience, maybe we'll be able to identify a young one's natural tendency or susceptibility to ill-behavior and deliberately manage their *nuture* to steer them away from the dark side.

karmaceutical:bdub77: The incompetence of the officers reminds me when I hear what sound like obvious gunshots coming from the wooded area behind my house. The police don't even bother to investigate when we call it in, they just say it's probably some kids lighting firecrackers.

Some day they are probably going to find like 40 bodies buried in the woods back there.

So just a couple weeks ago people were crying about the cops canvassing Watertown without warrants. Now people want the Cops to kick in doors because no one answers?

I just hope that police agencies look at this and go back over their reports about similar calls. It may lead to more discoveries. Even though I'm a death-penalty supporter, I hope these guys get life sentences.

I don't know for sure, of course, but if the babies born there died after they were born alive due to the fact that there was no doctor or facility available, that might not be considered first degree murder but should be negligence homicide.

However, I would prefer that they do not get the death penalty, instead gets lifelong rape in prison

thurstonxhowell:karmaceutical: thurstonxhowell: karmaceutical: bdub77: The incompetence of the officers reminds me when I hear what sound like obvious gunshots coming from the wooded area behind my house. The police don't even bother to investigate when we call it in, they just say it's probably some kids lighting firecrackers.

Some day they are probably going to find like 40 bodies buried in the woods back there.

So just a couple weeks ago people were crying about the cops canvassing Watertown without warrants. Now people want the Cops to kick in doors because no one answers?

While I see your point about the calls to which the police chose to respond, it would be nice if they had responded to all of them.

They responded, no one answers at a seemingly vacant house, no woman on a leash in the back yard. What do you want them to do at that point? Get a warrant?

Should I repeat my previous post, or will you just continue to pretend they responded to every call?

Every call or any call, the question is : What do you want the cops to do when the show up at a house with a report of some kind of activity and find no signs of it. No one answers the door. What should happen at this point that would have saved these girls sooner?

No Such Agency:Wow... that was rubbish tabloid journalism at its most craven.

Please refrain from actually calling the suspects "losers" in your copy, or I will consider you a ridiculous hack and not to be trusted. The NY Post makes the typical Daily Mail piece about "Girl and her mum have the largest tits in Britain, innit" look like Pulitzer material.

RatOmeter:TheDirtyNacho: DNA sequencing of these guys' genome should be done. Amazing that 3 brothers seem to have the same sociopathic nature. Perhaps one day we can spot these people before they're born...

Brain scans too. There's already research been done on both fronts. This neuroscientist studied PET scans of normal people and violent psychopaths and found correlations between neural structures and behavior. The kicker: his family tree had some bad, violent folks, including Lizzy Borden, so he was talked in to checking his immediate family's PET scans. The scientist found his scan to look just like that of a serial killer's, as did several genes that have been associated violence.

Nature and nuture both can have profound effects on a person's development and adult behavior. With advances in genetics and neuroscience, maybe we'll be able to identify a young one's natural tendency or susceptibility to ill-behavior and deliberately manage their *nuture* to steer them away from the dark side.

DROxINxTHExWIND:bdub77: The incompetence of the officers reminds me when I hear what sound like obvious gunshots coming from the wooded area behind my house. The police don't even bother to investigate when we call it in, they just say it's probably some kids lighting firecrackers.

Some day they are probably going to find like 40 bodies buried in the woods back there.

I'm going to have to be the guy who defends the police department, here. Hindsight is 20/20. How many threads do Farkers biatch about unlawful searches and dogs being killed by reckless S.W.A.T. teams? Now, we're going to go the other direction and say that a cop should treat every call like a possible child abduction? We have no idea how many prank or stupid calls that police departments receive where they waste their time and our money investigating bullshiat. We need to blame the folks who call 911 because the manager at Burger King won't super size their meal or the woman who calls because her daughter cursed at her. Int he story of the Boy who cried wolf, we didn't blame the townsfolk for being slow to respond. We blamed the boy who was carelessly alerting them for no reason.

As a former 911 dispatcher, I can say that you actually put this very well.

Then again, I was in a small rural town, and you can bet that, there, every cop in the the county would have been surrounding that house on the first report of a naked woman being seen outside.

Yes please:TheDirtyNacho: DNA sequencing of these guys' genome should be done. Amazing that 3 brothers seem to have the same sociopathic nature. Perhaps one day we can spot these people before they're born...

Or it could be that whole nurture thing. But since the brothers should share about 25% common DNA among all three, it shouldn't be too difficult to figure out which is the sociopath gene, right?

Granted there's alot of assumptions being made here... many probably inaccurate, but with some it's hardwired into the brain from birth and 'treatment' is largely ineffective as they simply do not experience the world the same way. It's a fairly small percentage of the population. A lot of these monsters grew up in fairly average homes and families and with normal siblings. And on the flip, most broken homes do not create monsters. More and more recent studies find complex genetic connections to mental ailments. To have 3 from one immediate family I think is very interesting.

The daughter's mental illness is also interesting to note. Definitely worth a case study.

DROxINxTHExWIND:RatOmeter: TheDirtyNacho: DNA sequencing of these guys' genome should be done. Amazing that 3 brothers seem to have the same sociopathic nature. Perhaps one day we can spot these people before they're born...

Brain scans too. There's already research been done on both fronts. This neuroscientist studied PET scans of normal people and violent psychopaths and found correlations between neural structures and behavior. The kicker: his family tree had some bad, violent folks, including Lizzy Borden, so he was talked in to checking his immediate family's PET scans. The scientist found his scan to look just like that of a serial killer's, as did several genes that have been associated violence.

Nature and nuture both can have profound effects on a person's development and adult behavior. With advances in genetics and neuroscience, maybe we'll be able to identify a young one's natural tendency or susceptibility to ill-behavior and deliberately manage their *nuture* to steer them away from the dark side.

Hope you're both joking.

/"Minority Report"

A fictional story about mutants who can see the future is not the same as genetic screening and diversion into programs that keep an eye on them.

The world will remove from itself a lot of trouble once we have a better grasp on the genetics of mental illness and can spot it ahead of time.

karmaceutical:Every call or any call, the question is : What do you want the cops to do when the show up at a house with a report of some kind of activity and find no signs of it. No one answers the door. What should happen at this point that would have saved these girls sooner?

I see you went with continuing to pretend that the cops showed up to every call.

As for your question, I'm tired of repeating myself. Read my Weeners to you to get my answer.

So yesterday you heard plenty of neighbors stating they couldn't believe it, but then people for years have been calling into the police about stuff detailed in the article? No neighbor talks to any other neighbor about this?

Our man Charles Ramsey was shocked as hell and he lived right there and BBQ'd with the guy (and listened to salsa music)! He obviously didn't hesitate to come to the rescue when he saw what he saw. He's clearly an approachable guy. Nobody ever said, "Hey Chuck, we think there's some pretty crazy shiat going on in that house that you better watch out for."

I'll happily admit I was wrong if it turns out there are records of these calls and the police failed to respond accordingly, but right now I have to think BS. Either the situation was such that people saw things on numerous occasions and cared enough to call the police but in turn never said a word to any of their neighbors, or these claims are BS.

It's beginning to look like this might escalate into a murder case. It will be interesting (in a horrifying way) to see what their search reveals. Either way, none of them are ever getting out of prison.

DROxINxTHExWIND:These are the same people who ACTUALLY LIVE in the neighborhood where the house is and they all also said on the first day after this came out that it was a complete surprise and they were totally shocked that there were three girls inside. They also continue to interact with him after seeing a little girl in his attic window? Where was the follow up of the neighbors? And if this was totally shocking to the people who lived next to the house for ten years it should locigally tell you that he had them hidden pretty well and not much outside of a warrent and search of the house was going to find those girls. But, the police presumably did not have probable cause.

I won't belabor the issue, because you certainly have a point, and hindsight is indeed 20/20. And I don't really blame the police themselves. But if the police were in fact called about suspicious activity on multiple occasions, your department better reexamine the way you analyze incoming data and perform police work. It is certainly possible that neighbors who called in the activity in fact saw it occur multiple times and presumed that the police had already investigated it. Some additional investigation is warranted in any case, not to hold police responsible, but to find ways they can prevent tragedies like this from happening in the future.

TheDirtyNacho:DNA sequencing of these guys' genome should be done. Amazing that 3 brothers seem to have the same sociopathic nature. Perhaps one day we can spot these people before they're born...

It doesn't surprise me at all.

The abused can become abusers themselves later in life, sometimes as a result of their nature (genetic propensity to violent mental illness) or nurture (raised to view abuse and violence as "normal" or is damaged as a result of the abuse). Sometimes it's a bit of both.

Shrugging Atlas:So yesterday you heard plenty of neighbors stating they couldn't believe it, but then people for years have been calling into the police about stuff detailed in the article? No neighbor talks to any other neighbor about this?

That is a good point. Unless said neighbors who made the calls had since moved or something, I can't reconcile "I'VE SEEN NUDE WOMEN CRAWLING AROUND THE PREMISES" and "wow, what a total shock three women were held captive here" in the same breath either.

TheDirtyNacho:DROxINxTHExWIND: RatOmeter: TheDirtyNacho: DNA sequencing of these guys' genome should be done. Amazing that 3 brothers seem to have the same sociopathic nature. Perhaps one day we can spot these people before they're born...

Brain scans too. There's already research been done on both fronts. This neuroscientist studied PET scans of normal people and violent psychopaths and found correlations between neural structures and behavior. The kicker: his family tree had some bad, violent folks, including Lizzy Borden, so he was talked in to checking his immediate family's PET scans. The scientist found his scan to look just like that of a serial killer's, as did several genes that have been associated violence.

Nature and nuture both can have profound effects on a person's development and adult behavior. With advances in genetics and neuroscience, maybe we'll be able to identify a young one's natural tendency or susceptibility to ill-behavior and deliberately manage their *nuture* to steer them away from the dark side.

Hope you're both joking.

/"Minority Report"

A fictional story about mutants who can see the future is not the same as genetic screening and diversion into programs that keep an eye on them.

The world will remove from itself a lot of trouble once we have a better grasp on the genetics of mental illness and can spot it ahead of time.

Shrugging Atlas:Anyone know how and for how long 911 calls are tracked and recorded? Are they in the hands of the police? I'd have to think if these claims of calls made over the years were true someone other than the police would be able to confirm it at some point.

There is no profit in rescuing broke people.

That was what I was going to say but you're absolutely right in this case. We're only getting one side and, because it's PWGS, we're setting all sympathies to them.

If it turns out that there were, in fact, no calls made to 911 or that those calls were not of the nature described then I suppose our emotions would be wasted and we'd feel foolish afterward.

thurstonxhowell:karmaceutical: Every call or any call, the question is : What do you want the cops to do when the show up at a house with a report of some kind of activity and find no signs of it. No one answers the door. What should happen at this point that would have saved these girls sooner?

I see you went with continuing to pretend that the cops showed up to every call.

As for your question, I'm tired of repeating myself. Read my Weeners to you to get my answer.

So what was different about these other calls as opposed to the ones they are on record as having responded to?

bdub77:DROxINxTHExWIND: These are the same people who ACTUALLY LIVE in the neighborhood where the house is and they all also said on the first day after this came out that it was a complete surprise and they were totally shocked that there were three girls inside. They also continue to interact with him after seeing a little girl in his attic window? Where was the follow up of the neighbors? And if this was totally shocking to the people who lived next to the house for ten years it should locigally tell you that he had them hidden pretty well and not much outside of a warrent and search of the house was going to find those girls. But, the police presumably did not have probable cause.

I won't belabor the issue, because you certainly have a point, and hindsight is indeed 20/20. And I don't really blame the police themselves. But if the police were in fact called about suspicious activity on multiple occasions, your department better reexamine the way you analyze incoming data and perform police work. It is certainly possible that neighbors who called in the activity in fact saw it occur multiple times and presumed that the police had already investigated it. Some additional investigation is warranted in any case, not to hold police responsible, but to find ways they can prevent tragedies like this from happening in the future.

Stone Meadow:Haven't seen it mentioned anywhere, so I'll ask it here: is anybody investigating if the brothers have more slave dungeons in other houses they own?

I've seen some reports that they are searching elsewhere, but so far it doesn't appear that they do. According to TFA there was a 4th girl there for some period of time, and of course the miscarriages so I imagine they're looking for bodies at this point.

DROxINxTHExWIND:RatOmeter: TheDirtyNacho: DNA sequencing of these guys' genome should be done. Amazing that 3 brothers seem to have the same sociopathic nature. Perhaps one day we can spot these people before they're born...

Brain scans too. There's already research been done on both fronts. This neuroscientist studied PET scans of normal people and violent psychopaths and found correlations between neural structures and behavior. The kicker: his family tree had some bad, violent folks, including Lizzy Borden, so he was talked in to checking his immediate family's PET scans. The scientist found his scan to look just like that of a serial killer's, as did several genes that have been associated violence.

Nature and nuture both can have profound effects on a person's development and adult behavior. With advances in genetics and neuroscience, maybe we'll be able to identify a young one's natural tendency or susceptibility to ill-behavior and deliberately manage their *nuture* to steer them away from the dark side.

Hope you're both joking.

/"Minority Report"

More like pondering out loud. It's joined with host of related ethical dilemmas that we'll have to face as our knowledge of and ability to manipulate genetics and neuroscience increase. Issues with the present ability to test for a genetic tendency to develop Alzheimer's (the Doc knows, but should he tell you, for example) are trivial compared what's on the horizon.

Parent knows they have a family history of psychosis and violence, should they get their kid tested? Maybe they did and ignored it - could they be found liable later when their adult offspring eats the livers out of school children?

TheDirtyNacho:DROxINxTHExWIND: RatOmeter: TheDirtyNacho: DNA sequencing of these guys' genome should be done. Amazing that 3 brothers seem to have the same sociopathic nature. Perhaps one day we can spot these people before they're born...

Brain scans too. There's already research been done on both fronts. This neuroscientist studied PET scans of normal people and violent psychopaths and found correlations between neural structures and behavior. The kicker: his family tree had some bad, violent folks, including Lizzy Borden, so he was talked in to checking his immediate family's PET scans. The scientist found his scan to look just like that of a serial killer's, as did several genes that have been associated violence.

Nature and nuture both can have profound effects on a person's development and adult behavior. With advances in genetics and neuroscience, maybe we'll be able to identify a young one's natural tendency or susceptibility to ill-behavior and deliberately manage their *nuture* to steer them away from the dark side.

Hope you're both joking.

/"Minority Report"

A fictional story about mutants who can see the future is not the same as genetic screening and diversion into programs that keep an eye on them.

The world will remove from itself a lot of trouble once we have a better grasp on the genetics of mental illness and can spot it ahead of time.

Not to Godwin this, but I wonder how many Jews would be on the "danger" list if a Hitler-run government were responsible for intepreting the data?

nekom:<b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7740905/84088965#c84088965" target="_blank">Theory Of Null</a>:</b> <i>Stone Meadow: Haven't seen it mentioned anywhere, so I'll ask it here: is anybody investigating if the brothers have more slave dungeons in other houses they own?

I was curious about that boarded up house next door to the house where they were found.</i>

Could just be a foreclosure.

That's what the banks want you to think. It has slave dungeon written all over it.

RatOmeter:With advances in genetics and neuroscience, maybe we'll be able to identify a young one's natural tendency or susceptibility to ill-behavior and deliberately manage their *nuture* to steer them away from the dark side.

Where was God the first 4 times they had a chance to be saved? Comic-con?

God is not Superman. The real world is not a comic book. Stop commenting on supernatural things you don't understand.

/faith does not work like a wish granting genie in a lamp.

Are you implying it works at all? Why isn't she thanking the people that actually helped out and resolved this situation? Miracle my ass. Is it going to be a miracle when the years and years of therapy these women are going to need finally get them to a point where they can fall asleep without crying, or be hugged by another human being without their flesh crawling? Is that all part of God's miracle?