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Hope too he´ll get the fro , but he doesn´t look that dark in the Minicomic but the figure itself was pretty dark indeed!
Besides that Ram Man rocks!!! Can´t wait to get him.
Rio Blast looks more like Charles Bronson to me, but Freddy was epic, R.I.P.
Awesome Battlecry from Eamon at the end when he fought the wasp

*deep sigh* Listening to the discussions regarding POP toy vs Filmation looks always leaves me feeling dissatisfied, because we get the same type of answers that shirk the core arguments some of us bring up on the boards.

Let's be clear. "Some" is basically you and Darkspecter. If I am leaving anyone else out, forgive me, I don't mean to do that.

I do think that it's important for Scott to hear all opinions on POP. I think he thinks your opinion is the opinion of all POP fans because you and Darkspecter as so vocal. Your being vocal is great... but his perception wouldn't be correct. So I am not sure what these "core arguments" are and why they matter now when both Scott and Eric have made clear what the approach to POP will be.

There are a few people here who do not agree with what you're looking for in the Classics line when it comes to POP characters. For example, I would be really disappointed with a Mermista figure based solely on the vintage figure. The Filmation design, with some of the toy details (bodice, shell, etc.) would be so much more aesthetically pleasing... to me.

I think this episode was good if for no other reason than it states both the 4H and Scott's ideas and plans clearly. There is no argument.

That being said, you can certainly dislike their choice about the aesthetic and the direction they are going, but they have clarified their approach.

I'd also like to point out that, thus far, there has been a decent mixture of both cartoon and toy influence for POP. Obviously they have used the cartoon and style guide as their primary sources. But they haven't ignored the toy designs at all.

As for the arguments that you and Darkspecter make all the time, the ONLY case where I think rooted hair is a good idea would be Entrapta. Just as Grizzlor used soft goods to recreate his "action feature," so too should Entrapta's "hair" be rooted for the Classics line. Honestly, it would just be less of a headache for all involved in creating her, I think.

Secondary heads with rooted hair would be a waste for me. I would never use them. Plus they would take resources away from the rest of the figure in each case.

I hope that the 4H keep taking some liberties. Bow is a triumph. I want to see the POP characters as though they might have evolved from the early MOTU mini-comics. The more the 4H work on POP characters, the more I see people here begin to love these characters. That's exciting. It's a win win for everyone. It's just more fun.

I know you are disapointed about this news but it was Eric Treadway who said they would be following the Filmation looks of the POP Females and not the POP toy look. Scott has said several times the females in the line would be made to look as if they existed in the MOTU toyline only with an updated look. Who knows Tallstar you might really like how the Horsemen make the POP females look. We just have to wait and see.

Originally Posted by bcrduke

Let's be clear. "Some" is basically you and Darkspecter.

I guess I keep hoping that at some point Scott will take responsibility for the multitude of comments over the years, whereby POP toy versions were made out to be a real possibilty in the Classics, and also offer a logical explanation as to why they have to chose one version over another. I'm not debating Filmation's general popularity with the fan base, btw. I'm merely saying the toy designs should be able to co-exist with the other figures in this line.

Immediately, some folks may feel compelled to point out that MOTUC is in a "State of Emergency" of sorts what with 2014 and beyond potentially being scaled back, and that it's unrealistic to keep pushing for variants right now... but my issue is: Scott has continually stated that he prefers to keep a positive outlook about MOTUC's future prospects, yet offers zero positivity and hope to the toy POP fans who became invested in his original mission statement and other official Mattel commentary on the subject. This positive outlook is seemingly reserved only for the folks who are dying for MOTU vehicles, a variant Ram Man and so on. It's really disappointing to witness this preferiential treatment is such an overt way.

Moreover, this is probably like the third or fourth time now that he's gone off on this largely irrelevant discussion about rooted hair and soft goods, as if the vast majority of POP toy fans are crying out for those things to be included. By and large, these days a portion of the fans just think it would be a neat extra to include and/or mention the rooted hair to underscore some form of preferential treatment toward MOTU, such as Megator getting a partially rooted head.

As for Eric's comment about keeping the figures "consistent", that depresses and worries me because it implies that the outlook for POP's future is somewhat bleak, that once fans get their one version of each character it's "Sayonara POP fans!" (Meanwhile, I believe in the last episode Scott was saying how great it would be to save all these variants for 2016...and it sounded as if he was mostly referring to MOTU yet again.) Why worry so much about POP figures fitting in with each other? If a variant POP figure fits in more with Evil-Lyn or Teela, so what? I mean, look at the MOTU line. Compare He-Man with something like the prototype Evil Robot and they looks like they're from two totally different lines. It's not a big deal in MOTU and it shouldn't be in POP either.

Let's be clear. "Some" is basically you and Darkspecter. If I am leaving anyone else out, forgive me, I don't mean to do that.

I do think that it's important for Scott to hear all opinions on POP. I think he thinks your opinion is the opinion of all POP fans because you and Darkspecter as so vocal. Your being vocal is great... but his perception wouldn't be correct. So I am not sure what these "core arguments" are and why they matter now when both Scott and Eric have made clear what the approach to POP will be.

There are a few people here who do not agree with what you're looking for in the Classics line when it comes to POP characters. For example, I would be really disappointed with a Mermista figure based solely on the vintage figure. The Filmation design, with some of the toy details (bodice, shell, etc.) would be so much more aesthetically pleasing... to me.

I think this episode was good if for no other reason than it states both the 4H and Scott's ideas and plans clearly. There is no argument.

That being said, you can certainly dislike their choice about the aesthetic and the direction they are going, but they have clarified their approach.

I'd also like to point out that, thus far, there has been a decent mixture of both cartoon and toy influence for POP. Obviously they have used the cartoon and style guide as their primary sources. But they haven't ignored the toy designs at all.

As for the arguments that you and Darkspecter make all the time, the ONLY case where I think rooted hair is a good idea would be Entrapta. Just as Grizzlor used soft goods to recreate his "action feature," so too should Entrapta's "hair" be rooted for the Classics line. Honestly, it would just be less of a headache for all involved in creating her, I think.

Secondary heads with rooted hair would be a waste for me. I would never use them. Plus they would take resources away from the rest of the figure in each case.

I hope that the 4H keep taking some liberties. Bow is a triumph. I want to see the POP characters as though they might have evolved from the early MOTU mini-comics. The more the 4H work on POP characters, the more I see people here begin to love these characters. That's exciting. It's a win win for everyone. It's just more fun.

There are a few people here who do not agree with what you're looking for in the Classics line when it comes to POP characters. For example, I would be really disappointed with a Mermista figure based solely on the vintage figure. The Filmation design, with some of the toy details (bodice, shell, etc.) would be so much more aesthetically pleasing... to me.

I think this episode was good if for no other reason than it states both the 4H and Scott's ideas and plans clearly. There is no argument.

That being said, you can certainly dislike their choice about the aesthetic and the direction they are going, but they have clarified their approach.

I'd also like to point out that, thus far, there has been a decent mixture of both cartoon and toy influence for POP. Obviously they have used the cartoon and style guide as their primary sources. But they haven't ignored the toy designs at all.

As for the arguments that you and Darkspecter make all the time, the ONLY case where I think rooted hair is a good idea would be Entrapta. Just as Grizzlor used soft goods to recreate his "action feature," so too should Entrapta's "hair" be rooted for the Classics line. Honestly, it would just be less of a headache for all involved in creating her, I think.

Secondary heads with rooted hair would be a waste for me. I would never use them. Plus they would take resources away from the rest of the figure in each case.

I hope that the 4H keep taking some liberties. Bow is a triumph. I want to see the POP characters as though they might have evolved from the early MOTU mini-comics. The more the 4H work on POP characters, the more I see people here begin to love these characters. That's exciting. It's a win win for everyone. It's just more fun.

AMEN !

I agree with BCR'. The artistic choice to mix Filmation design + Toy details is just perfect. Adora and Frosta are awesome. And I really hope to get a Casta, a Glimmer or Angella like the Animation Style Guide!

I'm not sure why some folks are standing up and applauding for bcrduke, when I've always been open to getting both Filmation and toy versions in this line. *shrugs* And yes, at one time I thought it would be neat to get an additional rooted head with the POP gals as an extra like some other folks, but point to me where I'm "pushing" for this sort of stuff??

I'll weigh in on some other stuff later, but first: HOW ON EARTH have none of you ever eaten a chimichanga???! Perhaps it's from growing up in an area with a large concentration of authentic Mexican restaurants, but really? I was stunned.

Photog is here! thank you, Mattel!

Now how about some mini-comics love (like Lodar, Geldor, Dakon......)? And Mermista?

I'm surprised there hasn't been a bigger outcry over Ram Man's closed eyes. No other MOTUC figure has closed eyes, and Mattel gave us two heads. There is no excuse for not having at least one head with his eyes open. That "gutsy decision" for the first head becomes a very poor decision for the second.

I'm not sure why some folks are standing up and applauding for bcrduke, when I've always been open to getting both Filmation and toy versions in this line.

I think it's more so that there just isn't enough demand from the overall fanbase to warrant full-fledged toy-based versions of the POP characters. You may be open to getting both, but most other people aren't. There's very, very little demand for toy accurate POP figures. Most people want Filmation as the primary influence. And when you combine that with the fact that many of the POP figures already include some kind of toy-based elements as bcrduke pointed out in detail, there's even less of a reason to make variants specifically based on them.

While we have been told over time that the variants that we do get will primarily be based on "A-List" characters, and while there are certainly POP characters who are very much A-list material, part of what needs to be taken into consideration is the demand for the particular, specific variant in question. If that particular version isn't highly demanded and is something that the bulk of the fan base has no interest in, then it makes no sense to make it.

Figures shouldn't be made based purely on principle, which with all due respect has been the main reasoning that you keep using to say that they should be made. If the demand isn't there, then it makes little sense to make them.

And this goes even more so now that we are in a "crisis mode" with this line.

Let's be clear. "Some" is basically you and Darkspecter. If I am leaving anyone else out, forgive me, I don't mean to do that.

I do think that it's important for Scott to hear all opinions on POP. I think he thinks your opinion is the opinion of all POP fans because you and Darkspecter as so vocal. Your being vocal is great... but his perception wouldn't be correct. So I am not sure what these "core arguments" are and why they matter now when both Scott and Eric have made clear what the approach to POP will be.

There are a few people here who do not agree with what you're looking for in the Classics line when it comes to POP characters. For example, I would be really disappointed with a Mermista figure based solely on the vintage figure. The Filmation design, with some of the toy details (bodice, shell, etc.) would be so much more aesthetically pleasing... to me.

I think this episode was good if for no other reason than it states both the 4H and Scott's ideas and plans clearly. There is no argument.

That being said, you can certainly dislike their choice about the aesthetic and the direction they are going, but they have clarified their approach.

I'd also like to point out that, thus far, there has been a decent mixture of both cartoon and toy influence for POP. Obviously they have used the cartoon and style guide as their primary sources. But they haven't ignored the toy designs at all.

As for the arguments that you and Darkspecter make all the time, the ONLY case where I think rooted hair is a good idea would be Entrapta. Just as Grizzlor used soft goods to recreate his "action feature," so too should Entrapta's "hair" be rooted for the Classics line. Honestly, it would just be less of a headache for all involved in creating her, I think.

Secondary heads with rooted hair would be a waste for me. I would never use them. Plus they would take resources away from the rest of the figure in each case.

I hope that the 4H keep taking some liberties. Bow is a triumph. I want to see the POP characters as though they might have evolved from the early MOTU mini-comics. The more the 4H work on POP characters, the more I see people here begin to love these characters. That's exciting. It's a win win for everyone. It's just more fun.

I think it's more so that there just isn't enough demand from the overall fanbase to warrant full-fledged toy-based versions of the POP characters. You may be open to getting both, but most other people aren't. There's very, very little demand for toy accurate POP figures. Most people want Filmation as the primary influence. And when you combine that with the fact that many of the POP figures already include some kind of toy-based elements as bcrduke pointed out in detail, there's even less of a reason to make variants specifically based on them.

Here's the thing though: This line was never supposed to be about just getting the most popular characters or versions. The sky was supposed to be the limit. While I agree Mattel went overboard with the amount of concepts they put out and that it's the right move for them to focus on A-Listers like Glimmer, Angella etc. for the next 2 years or so after 2013, making the preferred designs, this is actually a completely separate issue from the issues I'm brining up. Filmation is generally more popular. Yes, we already know that. What I'm looking for, is some glimmer of hope that Mattel will eventually get to toy versions and honor past statements if the line survives.

I would be happy to get toy versions of the POP characters as variants, but I have to agree that the filmation designs are MY iconc versions.

And I was surprised to hear all the support for gay characters. I think that's awesome. But as I and others have pointed out, the mere presence of homosexual characters does not equal being sexually explicit. We have several heterosexual couples (and many of them are actually having sex, as evidenced by the number of babies in MOTUC), and there's no reason they couldn't make two males a couple.

I was a little disappointed that you guys didn't talk about Ram Man's skirt. Is it hard plastic, or soft like the furry shorts? Maybe this has already been answered and I missed it.

All in all though, this was a great episode! I love hearing from Scott and the horsemen. And hearing about Pennydreadful's in-laws are me laugh.

Here's the thing though: This line was never supposed to be about just getting the most popular characters or versions. The sky was supposed to be the limit. While I agree Mattel went overboard with the amount of concepts they put out and that it's the right move for them to focus on A-Listers like Glimmer, Angella etc. for the next 2 years or so after 2013, making the preferred designs, this is actually a completely separate issue from the issues I'm brining up. Filmation is generally more popular. Yes, we already know that. What I'm looking for, is some glimmer of hope that Mattel will eventually get to toy versions and honor past statements if the line survives.

That's when Mattel thought that MOTUC was the Titanic and would last beyond 2017. Since the 2013 subscriptions have barely passed the minimum, Toyguru had to toss out his infamous MOTUC roadmap and rework the 2014 year to get to all of the remaining vintage MOTU characters.

I agree with BCR'. The artistic choice to mix Filmation design + Toy details is just perfect. Adora and Frosta are awesome. And I really hope to get a Casta, a Glimmer or Angella like the Animation Style Guide!

You happened to use what I consider the only example of where styleguide trumps classic toy design. Castaspella I love either way, whereas Angella and Glimmer- they are my top 2 "PLEASE take some toy designs into consideration and jettison some of the Filmation influence!" characters. There are also others, like Peekablue, where the toy feather backpack design is amazeballs whereas the Filmation one looks lame. I want a Peekablue that looks like the classic toy done as a 4H-sculpted 6" action figure. Entrapta's classic toy colors trump her Filmation look. Spinnerella is another where she should have an intricate ornate costume, but, well... who knows what they'll do to her. OH. Perfuma comes to mind all of a sudden. Wouldn't you rather have a Perfuma based on the classic figure than the one that's in the Filmation cartoon?
I dunno... obviously we haven't gotten all that much from the world of PoP yet in MOTUC, but I think fans of the classic toys who want to see them updated for MOTUC are worried and rightfully so after seeing how Netossa got shafted and how The Star Sisters were handled. If Glimmer comes out and she's like Bow- sort of a 50/50 split between her Filmation and classic toy appearances, I think we'd ALL be very happy. But the worry for old-school fans is that she's going to come out looking more like Starla. Flat paint job, the awful BG Teela hips, one staff with no other accessories, you know the deal. If by now we had already gotten let's say Sweet Bee, Double Trouble, Angella, and Mermista and we had a better idea of what the rest of the gals were going to come out like, we probably wouldn't be having any of these conversations. But, at this point, the PoP figures we DO have are a tad all over the place: Star Sisters being derived from a poster. Catra looking like an animation cel come to life. Bow and BP She-Ra being a hybrid of two styles (and in my opinion, being the best two releases of PoP characters in MOTUC). Some of us are rallying for more of the old toy style to creep in because we DON'T have some of our favorites yet, and we'd like to get the attention of the people making the decisions to not dumb down the designs or go 100% Filmation... much in the way Mosquitor fans were vocal about what they wanted, or Ram Man fans, or whoever else. Granted, "they" don't always listen (no blood tanks for Mosquitor, there are even some Rammy fans who wanted the cardback colors instead of the red and green), but it's still worth repeatedly posting about.
Nobody else really seems to care bout Double Trouble for example, so let the ones who do and will no doubt buy multiples clamor for what they- as customers- would prefer to see if/when the 4H get around to creating her.

I'd also like to take a moment to point out that I'm gutted that Brian and few others are perpetuating some untrue information regarding my stance on certain issues and making it seem like I'm speaking for all POP fans. I'm not.

Seriously folks, think about this for a moment... in what parallel universe has Scott ever given any indication that he takes MY words as gospel?? I'm confused, because Scott and I rarely ever interact with each other. Most of the time, he only ever posts in my threads on the trademarks to manage expectations and rarely comments on any of the issues I bring up, unless I mention it on "Ask Matty" and even then it's not like he's skewed toward my opinions. If anything, Brian has the better relationship with Scott and has met him in person, which gives him more of an advantage, imo.

Regarding the rooted hair, I'm looking back at some of my past comments and I'm confused about that portion of his commentary. This is what I said in January of 2011:

" I'd like to see a second head with rooted hair, even if only on occasion, but I've come to terms with the fact that it's not really feasible for the factory to do that right now."

And really, it's not like there were only a handful of folks who were interested in a second rooted head. There's a poll where 70 people were interested as well. But I haven't been making any sort of hardcore requests for that in a long time.

Here's the thing though: This line was never supposed to be about just getting the most popular characters or versions. The sky was supposed to be the limit. While I agree Mattel went overboard with the amount of concepts they put out and that it's the right move for them to focus on A-Listers like Glimmer, Angella etc. for the next 2 years or so after 2013, making the preferred designs, this is actually a completely separate issue from the issues I'm brining up. Filmation is generally more popular. Yes, we already know that. What I'm looking for, is some glimmer of hope that Mattel will eventually get to toy versions and honor past statements if the line survives.

But some degree of desirability still needs to be in the mix by a large enough portion of the fanbase. If most of the fanbase does NOT want something, then it makes no sense to produce it.

The line did go too far off into obscure characters (especially this year where pretty much none of the oversized items that are included in the sub are even remotely in the ballpark of being "A-list" material) and the fans "voted with their wallets" by Not buying subs in as large of numbers as in previous years. Most fans do not want POP figures based on old dolls (and especially not with rooted hair).

While it is annoying when Mattel contradicts itself, it still makes no sense for them to make a product when the know it likely won't sell and will drive customers away, regardless of past statements.

Will Mattel make good on past statements regarding vintage toy-based POP figures being included in MOTUC? I think by this point it should be obvious that the answer is most likely not.

This was perhaps arguably the best episode yet! Other than the seemingly endless exegesis about nothing by Penndydreadful at the beginning (that entire segment could have been chopped with no loss), once the Q/A with Scott and Eric started things kicked into high gear. And thanks for asking the hard hitting questions. It's both fun and revealing to see Scott on the hot seat explaining/clarifying his various points. Fans often take him to complete and utter task, quoting him out of turn, etc., so to see him answer to the various questions that fans have and doing so much more completely than the soundbites we usually receive is very appreciated.

Also, I enjoyed the delving into all things POP and trying to dig deeper into the stylistic choices on that subline. Ultimately it sounds like it's all just a matter of style, and how can you say who is right or wrong in that debate? Personally 99.9% of the time agree with the Horsemen's instincts and feel that they're stylings on POP have been dead bang, but I respect that some disagree. But in the end who's right and who's wrong? It either works for you or it doesn't.

PLEASE!! Someone tell Eric: Bow is/was perfect. The extra detail is AWESOME. It is NOT too far I was surprised to hear him say that he thought the reaction was mixed. Bow seems to be pretty popular among most MOTUC collectors according to the polls over the years.

I don't remember reading that people disliked the detailing. For example, the artistic license taken with the head band from the vintage toy-inspired head was INCREDIBLE!!

I totally agree about Bow. I don't think he went too far at all. I almost started talking to the podcast when Eric said that! Bow is how I'd like to see all the PoP stuff done, though I'm good with Filmation style since I love that show.

Here's the thing though: This line was never supposed to be about just getting the most popular characters or versions. The sky was supposed to be the limit. While I agree Mattel went overboard with the amount of concepts they put out and that it's the right move for them to focus on A-Listers like Glimmer, Angella etc. for the next 2 years or so after 2013, making the preferred designs, this is actually a completely separate issue from the issues I'm brining up. Filmation is generally more popular. Yes, we already know that. What I'm looking for, is some glimmer of hope that Mattel will eventually get to toy versions and honor past statements if the line survives.

But what we are all trying to politely tell you is that there really isn't that "glimmer" of hope now for solely toy based versions of the POP characters. The line has a limited number of slots now and it just isn't going to happen-at least not in this line. I've pointed it out in several other threads that TPB have already determined a direction for the POP figures and that is what they are going with - the Filmation overall look with nod here and there to the toy design. It was clarified in detail in this latest segment of RGD. So, we all get that is what you are wanting, but we are all kinda of tired of rehashing endlessly this topic. We get that you are disappointed, but it is time to either accept what we are getting, or if you are not that happy, just don't purchase the product.

But some degree of desirability still needs to be in the mix by a large enough portion of the fanbase. If most of the fanbase does NOT want something, then it makes no sense to produce it.

The way I see it, vintage POP shows a lot of potential. POP fans are still bidding on/purchasing the vintage figures on eBay, just like they have for the past 15 or so years. Spinnerella MOC is still going for thousands of dollars. I mean, it's not like everyone just up and dropped them in favor of what we're getting in MOTUC. And while you could argue that folks are only buying vintage POP for the sake of nostalgia and/or because they're dolls, I have a hard time believing that nostalgia wouldn't spill over into MOTUC if we were to get some of those designs. The problem isn't that the desirability is absent, it's the fact that POP fans have gotten scraps since the line started in 2008 are now so many of them are in "freak out mode" regarding design choices. But once we've burned through the major Filmation POP characters and toy line, then what? I really think folks are underestimating how they would perform in Classics. They haven't even properly tested one.

While it is annoying when Mattel contradicts itself, it still makes no sense for them to make a product when the know it likely won't sell and will drive customers away, regardless of past statements.

The same could be said about the vehicles, though. It doesn't really make sense for Mattel to waste time with preorders and whatnot if the numbers aren't there. (I'm not trying to prevent anyone from getting their faves, btw.)