We play the Lions at home this year right?...Swell I can see how this one's gonna turn out..

Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:51 pm

Phins Rock

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Re: Rumor: Lions seriously considering trade for Ronnie Brown

paydurt wrote:

We play the Lions at home this year right?...Swell I can see how this one's gonna turn out..

Yup.

Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:53 pm

rhoads30

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Re: Rumor: Lions seriously considering trade for Ronnie Brown

paydurt wrote:

We play the Lions at home this year right?...Swell I can see how this one's gonna turn out..

well if it is in the ladder part of the season, he will be on IR.

Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:56 pm

MdDolfan

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Re: Rumor: Lions seriously considering trade for Ronnie Brown

FrustratedFinFan wrote:

Trading Ronnie for a 2nd round pick in this deep draft would be a Godsend. He has only played one complete season and he has never been a break away threat. If we do trade Ronnie, then you can bet we are going after a running back early in the draft. Makes sense to me. Get younger at the position and possibly get a home run hitter at running back. Ronnie has been a solid player, when healthy. The problem is, he has a hard time staying healthy and it kills our team whenever we lose him. Hilliard also seems to be developing nicely, so the cupboard is not bare. Time to make a move and get something in trade while we can.

I agree with you about Ronnie and I also want to add he is FA after this year. Let's get something for him now because we are NOT going to resign him. I would jump at the chance to get our 2nd round pick back. If we do move down and miss out on Spiller what about Ryan Matthews from Fresno State, we pick him up before San Diego tries to snag him. If not we pick up a power back because I think people are forgetting THE TRIFECTA SAW SOMETHING IN KORY SHEETS, THAT'S WHY BROWN IS EXPENDABLE NOW!!!

Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:02 pm

keebler_kahn

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Re: Rumor: Lions seriously considering trade for Ronnie Brown

imo Ronnie Brown will not be resigned in the offseason next year.......so if he is not traded but allowed to sign elsewhere next offseason then the best the fins could get for him would be a 3rd round compensatory pick, and that is highly unlikely. They would also gain the use of his services for the upcoming season. I do think the fins have a chance at the playoffs this season if they keep Ronnie around, but it will be a tough road though with or w/o Ronnie.

If they do trade him and get a 2nd rounder, I don't think they'd draft a replacement until the 3rd round at the earliest. So Ricky would be the feature back, with the cluster of other RB's on the roster spelling Ricky as need be. It would also signal the end of the Wildcat, as Ronnie is the only player to run it with any real success(so the Wildcat would die unless PW can do better than what he's done in the past?). Even with this scenario, the way the Regime has built this OL, I believe the running game would be fine. It would obviously have less talent as Ronnie is the most talented RB on the roster, but I believe the team could still average over 4ypc w/o Ronnie.

In the end Ronnie is a guy that gets injured pretty consistently and the other players on the roster with injury history as a Miami Dolphin can also be had by trade. If they move him and get a 2nd for him I would understand and hope that the pick turns into a starter for the team.

Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:48 pm

rhoads30

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Re: Rumor: Lions seriously considering trade for Ronnie Brown

if they do in fact trade ronnie, i am curious to how the wildcat will be utilized, if at all anymore. maybe pat white will get more of a shot in it (that would be interesting)...who knows.

Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:45 pm

eleaf

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Re: Rumor: Lions seriously considering trade for Ronnie Brown

1984phins wrote:

Rich wrote:

1984phins wrote:

I'm tired of these rumors and they piss me off.

Trading Ronnie Brown away is stupid. Trading for a 2nd round pick? What is the point of that? You lose Miami's best offensive player and your running game takes a huge hit. The reward? You get a "player" who may or may not (prob not) be as good as Ronnie.

The addition of Marshall set up our offsense. We have our running game and now we can chuck the ball when needed. Concentrate on defense. Getting rid of Brown adds another hole to our team.

These rumors really piss me off.

You either lose Brown next year and get nothing in return or you lose him this year and get something in return.

Or you re-sign him. You get a younger guy in 2011 who eventually takes Ronnie's place (in either 2012 or 2013 depending on health) and then Ronnie Brown assumes the role Ricky Williams currently has with the team.

This is absolutely the right way in theory. It all depends on how much he will want to get paid. Keeping him and drafting another RB will have us set at RB for years. It's about setting us up for the future. Keeping him for the long term allows us to do that. Trading him lands us a net loss because Ricky won't be here forever and we'll have to replace both rather than just Ricky when his time is done. It may be a short term gain, but I'm not interested in short term gains. I'm interested in being competitive over the next 5-8 years.

_________________A good RB is nice, a good QB even better, but it's best to be able to stop someone first.

Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:31 pm

MNDolfan

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Re: Rumor: Lions seriously considering trade for Ronnie Brown

FrustratedFinFan wrote:

Trading Ronnie for a 2nd round pick in this deep draft would be a Godsend. He has only played one complete season and he has never been a break away threat. If we do trade Ronnie, then you can bet we are going after a running back early in the draft. Makes sense to me. Get younger at the position and possibly get a home run hitter at running back. Ronnie has been a solid player, when healthy. The problem is, he has a hard time staying healthy and it kills our team whenever we lose him. Hilliard also seems to be developing nicely, so the cupboard is not bare. Time to make a move and get something in trade while we can.

Couldn't agree more.

The people on here who think Brown is a top-10 back are delusional. And you can't say "when he's healthy," because durability has to figure into whether a guy is top-10 quality.

Brown is not durable. Freak injuries or not, the guy is constantly injured. He's 29 years old. He's in the final year of his contract. He's rushed for 1,000 yards one time.

Honestly, if we could get a high second for Ronnie Brown, I'd take it and laugh at the Lions. That's a steal. I'd have been happy with their third.

Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:07 am

jammer

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Re: Rumor: Lions seriously considering trade for Ronnie Brown

Why do people assume Ronnie will re-sign for something reasonable? In a perfect world yeah, he re-signs a 2 or 3 year deal and a guy is drafted in 2011, and maybe by then you get a deal in place to ship Ronnie for a package of mid round picks. But Brown is going to want a big deal that overpays him for either hopeful production or some past performance. You really dont think he's going to want to be paid like a top 5 back in the NFL (which of course will be at least current salary with a 5-7 year deal)?

Its not like Miami hasn't thought this through. They see the writing on the wall with Brown. You can go get a guy who will gain 900 yds and 7 TDs per season at a much cheaper rate and acquire some picks in the process.

And I'm sorry, but I'm not buying the Brown is an irreplaceable blocking back in the NFL argument. If you've spent hours and days watching film and studying Brown versus other backs in that department then you need to get off this website and send your resume to the NFL Network or ESPN. Another back can still handle those duties.

Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:51 am

MTFan

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Re: Rumor: Lions seriously considering trade for Ronnie Brown

'84, I too hate these rumors. When Ronnie is on the field he is the best player out there. It also seems that Brown brings alot of intangibles to the game, the team seems to play with more emotion. He sure helped RW enjoy the game again. With RB we are contenders next year, without him we are not.

Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:35 am

1984phins

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Re: Rumor: Lions seriously considering trade for Ronnie Brown

Rich wrote:

What is the point of resigning a guy who isn't going to be available if you make the playoffs?

An absolute, iron-clad fact? No, of course not.

That's why I challenged your statement with the comment. Because you don't know. You claim history. Well, to be technical, history shows that Ronnie Brown hasn't missed a playoff game. Assume for argument purposes that Miami made the playoffs every year since 2005. Ronnie Brown then, would have played in playoff games for Miami in 2005, 2006, and 2008. He would have missed 2007 and 2009. There, "history" would have still said that he had a 40% chance of missing the playoffs, not the absolute way you referred to it.

I didn't attack you, I attacked your post. It certianly seems like you attacked me in your follow up. That is what sends threads off topic- when they get personal. But, if you didn't mean to attack me then I'll believe you.

All you had to say was , "What is the point of resigning a guy who probably isn't going to be available if you make the playoffs?"

All of this talk about Ronnie Brown getting injured reminds me of a Roulette wheel in Vegas.

At some point, casino owners decided to add a little digital chart showing the last 15 or so spins the wheel made. So, gamblers started to notice the chart. They would see for example, that the wheel landed on red the last seven times. So gamblers would use this information to either bet heavily on red (thinking its a streak) or bet on black (thinking its couldn't possibly land on red again). It didn't matter which way they bet, because both ways of thinking fall under a logical fallacy. It doesn't matter what happened before. Each event (spin of the wheel) is independent of the previous event. The odds of the ball landing on red are just 47.3%. No more or less.

(Luckily for the casino owners, they game made them MORE money due to the installation of the chart)

The same thing applies to Brown. Him tearing his ACL in 07 had no future effect on him hurting his foot in 09. Ronnie Brown being healthy and playing a full season in 2008 certainly didn't mean he would stay healthy in 2009 for that matter either.

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Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:31 pm

jammer

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Re: Rumor: Lions seriously considering trade for Ronnie Brown

Principal: Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Billy Madison: Okay, a simple "wrong" would've done just fine.

(just adding a little humor here)

Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:32 pm

wkloiber13

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Re: Rumor: Lions seriously considering trade for Ronnie Brown

I hate these kinds of scenarios because both sides make one heck of an arguement. For me though, I'm going to fall back on these words:"We're in a building process with an organization, but it's a win-now society,'' Ireland said.

In my opinion Ronnie Brown gives us the best chance to win now. We've got a real shot at winning the AFC East this year and maybe doing something in the playoffs with a full and healthy roster. If we let him go, then our odds change, and probably not for the better. When we had Brown, Williams, and Cobbs all healthy we had the best rush offense in the league. With very little luck we'll be right back there again if you ask me. If the choice were up to me, I'd let Ronnie be the man one more season and draft someone in the later rounds to develop. Next year when we lose Brown to free agency I would address the RB position with our first round pick.

Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:04 am

MTFan

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Re: Rumor: Lions seriously considering trade for Ronnie Brown

rhoads30 wrote:

if they do in fact trade ronnie, i am curious to how the wildcat will be utilized, if at all anymore.

the wildcat would and should be dead

Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:02 am

Rich

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Re: Rumor: Lions seriously considering trade for Ronnie Brown

1984phins wrote:

Him tearing his ACL in 07 had no future effect on him hurting his foot in 09. Ronnie Brown being healthy and playing a full season in 2008 certainly didn't mean he would stay healthy in 2009 for that matter either.

He has NEVER had to carry the load and yet almost every season he has some sort of injury. The ACL may not be directly related to the foot, but there is no question he is a huge question mark when it comes to durability. Maybe his entire body is fragile because he has injured his thigh, knee, wrist, and now foot. Two season ending injuries. And the one to his foot is the real problem because you have a lot of small bones in there and his foot is where he will be putting most of the pressure.

And this is not going to get better with age.

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Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:25 am

Rich

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Re: Rumor: Lions seriously considering trade for Ronnie Brown

MTFan wrote:

rhoads30 wrote:

if they do in fact trade ronnie, i am curious to how the wildcat will be utilized, if at all anymore.

the wildcat would and should be dead

Even more of a reason to get something for Ronnie now IF a 2nd round pick were offered. Out of conventional sets, Ronnie is just another running back.

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Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:28 am

Big Dave

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Re: Rumor: Lions seriously considering trade for Ronnie Brown

FrustratedFinFan wrote:

Trading Ronnie for a 2nd round pick in this deep draft would be a Godsend.

Don't get too excited. The rumors are saying that it will be for a 2nd round pick in NEXT year's draft. Also, Ronnie hasn't signed his tender yet, so, he cannot be traded until then.

He was also on a flight to Detroit yesterday, but there is no confirmation.

New Idea; Lets throw the wildcat out completely. We'll trade Ronnie for Megatron straight up, become an all passing team

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Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:39 am

k-dash

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Re: Rumor: Lions seriously considering trade for Ronnie Brown

At first, I was strongly opposed to this move, because Ronnie was clearly the most talented player on offense last year, and it stands to reason that it's a bad idea to get rid of your best players when you're rebuilding unless you can get a ransom for them. However, I've warmed to the idea mainly because I don't think we would re-sign him after this year anyway, so we might as well get what we can for him now. His injury history also impacts the decision, for sure, but I really don't feel good about our RB tandem without Ronnie in the mix. My guess is a 4th or 5th round RB would be on our radar unless we decide to go with Spiller in the 1st. I'm not enough of a draft junkie to know who that would be.

Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:42 am

k-dash

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Re: Rumor: Lions seriously considering trade for Ronnie Brown

Steve Zissou wrote:

New Idea; Lets throw the wildcat out completely. We'll trade Ronnie for Megatron straight up, become an all passing team

If the Lions are crazy enough to go for that I'll buy you dinner at Shula's.

(And I live in Maryland, so that tells you how likely I think it is, lol.)

New Idea; Lets throw the wildcat out completely. We'll trade Ronnie for Megatron straight up, become an all passing team

If the Lions are crazy enough to go for that I'll buy you dinner at Shula's.

(And I live in Maryland, so that tells you how likely I think it is, lol.)

And I'll come and chip in.

And I live in Denmark, so that tells you how likely I think it is!

;)

_________________-A Dane lost on the internet, crashed here-

Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:56 am

Phins Rock

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Re: Rumor: Lions seriously considering trade for Ronnie Brown

Rich wrote:

1984phins wrote:

Him tearing his ACL in 07 had no future effect on him hurting his foot in 09. Ronnie Brown being healthy and playing a full season in 2008 certainly didn't mean he would stay healthy in 2009 for that matter either.

He has NEVER had to carry the load and yet almost every season he has some sort of injury. The ACL may not be directly related to the foot, but there is no question he is a huge question mark when it comes to durability. Maybe his entire body is fragile because he has injured his thigh, knee, wrist, and now foot. Two season ending injuries. And the one to his foot is the real problem because you have a lot of small bones in there and his foot is where he will be putting most of the pressure.

And this is not going to get better with age.

How did he not have to carry the load in 2006 and 2007?? And don't tell me he was sharing with Jesse Chatman, or whatever his name was...

Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:22 am

Rich

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Re: Rumor: Lions seriously considering trade for Ronnie Brown

Phins Rock wrote:

How did he not have to carry the load in 2006 and 2007?? And don't tell me he was sharing with Jesse Chatman, or whatever his name was...

When has Ronnie even approached 300 carries?

That's what it means to carry the load.

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Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:36 am

k-dash

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Re: Rumor: Lions seriously considering trade for Ronnie Brown

By that definition only 6 running backs in the league carried the load last year, if ESPN stats are to be trusted.

How did he not have to carry the load in 2006 and 2007?? And don't tell me he was sharing with Jesse Chatman, or whatever his name was...

When has Ronnie even approached 300 carries?

That's what it means to carry the load.

In all due honesty he never carried the load at Auburn either. I'd really hate to see him go, but I can depend on Ronnie to get injured at some point in any season. I am also not comfortable with having to depend on Ricky either. He is trying his best to stay clean, but he can fall off the wagon at any point.

How did he not have to carry the load in 2006 and 2007?? And don't tell me he was sharing with Jesse Chatman, or whatever his name was...

When has Ronnie even approached 300 carries?

That's what it means to carry the load.

Ronnie was on pace for 250+ carries, (no way to really know a specific number as he did not finish the Pats game), and on pace for 80+ receptions.

That's not carrying the load?

In 2006, Ronnie was on pace for 297 carries, (more like 300+ because he did not finish the Detroit game).

Again, how was he not carrying the load those 2 years??

Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:14 am

ggippo

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Re: Rumor: Lions seriously considering trade for Ronnie Brown

I like Ronnie but he doesnt stay healthy plus he will be 29 this year. Guys like Ben Tate and Montario Hardesty could be great running backs in the NFL and could be had 3rd or 4th round. IF the Fins got a second round this year and a pick next year they could get 2 starters for Ronnie. If the Fins get a second round this year IMHO they could get five starters with their first five picks.

Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:44 am

AQNOR

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Re: Rumor: Lions seriously considering trade for Ronnie Brown

So is Ronnie just as likely to get hurt carrying the load as not carrying the load?

Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:49 am

jammer

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Re: Rumor: Lions seriously considering trade for Ronnie Brown

If you didn't finish the season you didn't carry the load.

You not wanting to see Brown go and the Dolphins actively shopping him are two completely different things.

Being pissed at the rumors and the rumors having legs because the organization is being pragmatic are two different things.

No one is anti-Ronnie. Some of us understand why he is being shopped while others are using anger/discontent/disappointment to call the front office dumb.

Going by facts alone and not what ifs, Brown has been a comprehensive disappointment in Miami. Out of 5 seasons only one thousand yard season, one pro bowl, and one year of double digit touchdowns. One completely healthy season, and that was while sharing the load. But he is one for one in playoff appearances!

If Ronnie wants to come back for a million or two per season for the next three years then great. My gut tells me he wants an undeserved huge contract and that is why Ireland has him on the block.

Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:54 am

jammer

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Re: Rumor: Lions seriously considering trade for Ronnie Brown

Think the Marion Barber approach. 4th round back who will put the ball in the end zone between 7 and 10 times per year and give you 800-900 tough yards.

Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:55 am

IamPZ

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Re: Rumor: Lions seriously considering trade for Ronnie Brown

jammer wrote:

If you didn't finish the season you didn't carry the load.

You not wanting to see Brown go and the Dolphins actively shopping him are two completely different things.

Being pissed at the rumors and the rumors having legs because the organization is being pragmatic are two different things.

No one is anti-Ronnie. Some of us understand why he is being shopped while others are using anger/discontent/disappointment to call the front office dumb.

Going by facts alone and not what ifs, Brown has been a comprehensive disappointment in Miami. Out of 5 seasons only one thousand yard season, one pro bowl, and one year of double digit touchdowns. One completely healthy season, and that was while sharing the load. But he is one for one in playoff appearances!

If Ronnie wants to come back for a million or two per season for the next three years then great. My gut tells me he wants an undeserved huge contract and that is why Ireland has him on the block.

Very well said here. As many have already said in this thread... it'd suck to see Ronnie go, but it's time. The kid hasn't put up anywhere near the numbers a 1st round pick should put up... let alone a what, top 5 pick?

He can't stay healthy, end of story. His time is up, let's get something for him while we still can.

I'd be comfortable trading Ronnie, considering we have a chance to take Toby Gerhart (has the same abilities as Ronnie only with a more stand up running style and has experience carrying the load) and/or Anthony Dixon.

IMO Toby is a poor man's Mike Alstott, may be a great fullback, but not an every down halfback. Similar stats in college, in fact Alstott's are superior, especially in terms of catching the ball. In no way does Toby have Ronnie's skills running, catching or for that matter throwing the ball.

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Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:41 pm

Rich

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Re: Rumor: Lions seriously considering trade for Ronnie Brown

k-dash wrote:

By that definition only 6 running backs in the league carried the load last year, if ESPN stats are to be trusted.