Hi All
I'm new to the group and have a question .I'm looking at buying a Jet BD920W
the new one.Was hoping someone here can help me .I've looked at buying
a used SB or Logan and the others but really want a new lathe.Ive been told
that the Jet is the same as Harbor Freight ? What I would like to know is any info good or bad on the subject.
thanks in advance.
Woodspinner

toolmaker76

09-11-2010, 12:42 AM

You can google "9 x 20" lathe- there are numerous sites out there that have information on them. I have the Harbor Freight version, but have yet to fire it up- have two others also that I got at about the same time, a 10" Sheldon and a 9" South Bend. I just now got the Sheldon running (like it!) and need to do varying amounts of work to the others; basically because I had to disassemble them to haul them home when I bought them.

I know there is quite a bit of difference price wise between Jet and Harbor Freight, but they are basically the same lathe. Quality control is supposed to be better on the Jet, but that is what I have read and can't really say from experience. The one I have seems to be okay for what it is, a lot of people recommend re-doing the compound plate from two bolts to four to make it more solid- you can even find prints for that on the internet.

As a hobby lathe it probably would not be too bad. The difference is that the others are built heavier, there is quite a bit of difference in the ways, width wise, with the Harbor freight being narrower. That would have to make life a little easier. I debate on selling one of them, probably should, but the darn little Harbor Freight lathe is set up to cut metric or English threads, which the others are English only without buying an extra set of gears.

Hope this helps!

J Tiers

09-11-2010, 12:52 AM

The new ones of those look like the old ones, only if anything, a little taller and thinner, more flexible and limber. While it is a "usable" tool, it suffers from being a decent 5" machine turned into a 9" by putting everything on risers...... but not stiffening it at all.

Some stupid stuff, like the 130 rpm minimum spindle speed, are fixable..... for reference, my Logan has a minimum speed of 30 RPM, verygood for large threads and turning bigger diameters.

If you REALLY want new, go for it. It's likely the cheapest way in. And Jet, unlike Harbor Freight, has parts, and will probably still be around when you want them. But of the folks I know of or know who have one of those, or did, most all have disposed of theirs and moved on to a heavier machine, or added a bigger one..... generally, the 12" or larger machines are much much much nicer. And, of course, more expensive.

I have a Logan, and I know from experience, that I would NEVER be happy with the BD920W, even though it is "usable". Not after using the Logan.

Used is usually the cheapest way in to get a solid machine...... for less than you'd pay for the BD920. I know of a guy who bought an 11" Logan, which is a NICE machine taking 5C collets, etc, for under $400. And it isn't a beater. You can pay more for a new 6 x 12" machine than that

But if you really want new, go for it.

PeteM

09-11-2010, 02:49 AM

If you decide to go the new import route, you'll get a lot more for your money by stepping up to an import 12 x 36. The 9" lathe has too high a low speed, no cross feed, a threaded spindle, a flimsy bed, it uses the lead screw for both feeds and threads, etc.

Phil McCrackin

09-11-2010, 10:08 AM

I agree with much of the above information. A few years ago I was in a similar situation. Luckily I have a KBC tool store very close to me, so I went and looked at the JET 9x20 and their "house brand" 9x20; side by side. I must say it was a no brainer to me after looking at them, and touching them. They were nearly identical except for price. Although I have never used a JET, I am very happy with my 'House brand" and I have ordered parts from Grizzly that fit my machine perfectly.

For me (because I have very little machining experience), I don't think that the more expensive JET lathe would have made a huge difference in the outcome of my parts. If you look around there are plenty of very nice things being made with those house brands.

IMO the 'machinist' makes the biggest difference, not necessarily the machine.

The "newness" feeling wears off very quickly, and then you have to buy all kinds of expensive tooling, and the warranty's and manuals are well...not worth the extra cost. I am speaking from experience.

My advice would be to

#1. Look for a good used machine, (many times it will come with extra tooling $$$$$) for the same money as a "shiny, new Chi-Com machine"

#2. Get the cheaper HF/Grizzly/Enco machines and buy tooling with your savings.

J Tiers

09-11-2010, 10:55 AM

Someone is sure to bring up the old wheeze that goes: "I don't want a used machine, I don't want something that is worn beyond usability and was tossed out by every previous owner."

Mind, I just LOVE people who say that....... They make it possible for me to have a well equipped shop at a reasonable price. I could not buy one new chinese mid-range lathe for what I have in my whole shop, actual money-wise.

We won't talk about restoration labor, but I kinda like doing that anyway. It involves machining, general shop work, and learning new things. I support other restoration hobbies....I'm not fixated on making toy engines... never have made one, might someday.

But, getting back to "worn out machines".... to be fair, while there are real POS used machines, or balls of rust, most of the used machines , while certainly not perfect, are very usable.

I have used machines with problems... so what? bed worn? "omigosh, gotta scrap it"....... NOT. Most cases of bed wear are not an issue unless you want to turn a long straight shaft to close tolerance. I have needed to do that maybe twice, although my machine is not badly worn at all, and I can do it.

Besides..... do the math. On a 1" diameter shaft, if the carriage drops 0.01", , the diameter error on the shaft is about 2 tenths.... 0.0002", an amount you may probably not be able to measure accurately, if your mic is even calibrated that low (many are not).

I am NOT going to tell you what you must do. Someone else is sure to do that, anyway.

Just giving you information...... Once you have used shop machines for a while, you will be able to more accurately determine for yourself who is right.......

Bill Pace

09-11-2010, 12:38 PM

There are so many accounts of guys having one of this group of (many brands) 9x20 lathes and their recounting how there is virtually no difference in them, other than paint and some of the switches & sheet metal being different, that I would say find the cheapest one - probably HF, and go with it. There is a member here _ I think "radkins?", anyway, he bought the Jet and his friend bought HF and they went deep into the 2 and found there was virtually no difference -- except the Jet was about double the price!

There are some many considerations in getting that first lathe -- they are many and varied. Personally, anymore, going the route of new outweighs going 'old American iron' - finding a decent used lathe is getting more and more difficult, and the improvements/quality in the Chinese lathes has definitely improved.

Then there are the pitfalls of 'new' - for instance, this lathe you are asking about has several weak spots, primarily the compound - its a terrible design and its almost a 'must' to do one of the many mods to make is better, and, there are 3-4 other areas that are also lacking. All of this group of small lathes are lacking in areas like this.

As mentioned, you really need to get into the 12x36 size of Chinese lathes to begin to get into a rather nice lathe.

Go over to the Yahoo group for 9x20 lathes and spend some time reading thru the posts and scroll through the files section and note the - unbelievable - amount of modifications that have been dreamed up for this lathe. Mind you, this is a highly popular lathe, there is some 6000 members at the site, just do your home work before committing to anything.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/9x20Lathe/messages

radkins

09-11-2010, 05:20 PM

There is a member here _ I think "radkins?", anyway, he bought the Jet and his friend bought HF and they went deep into the 2 and found there was virtually no difference -- except the Jet was about double the price!

Actually I had both machines, I bought the Jet first and acquired the HF lathe a few months later in a trade for some other items.

If you are going to buy one of these 9x20 lathes just get the one from Harbor Freight for half the money and paint it the same color as the Jet and you will have a Jet! I think now the HF machine does not come with a 4 jaw chuck anymore but that POS is no loss anyway and I found it next to useless so you will need to buy a chuck no matter which machine you get. Some can say what they want about brands but I KNOW the only difference between the Jet and the HF lathe is the color and the price, at least the older model 9x20 Jet lathes. The newer ones do have a few minor differences but from the people I have talked to about them it is mostly just cosmetic changes to make them appear different in an attempt to justify that inflated price.

J Tiers

09-11-2010, 09:53 PM

I am reasonably sure that the "universal 9 x 20" is a 9 x 20 "thing", possibly also true of the mini-lathes as well.

When you get to the 12" and larger, the brands seem to vary, with different specs and features, although many are similar even there. But one will have a foot brake, and another not, etc, etc.

I think everyone buys the exact same "9 x 20" to "fill out their line" with an entry level machine. but service does still vary..... HF apparently gets their replacement parts off the machines in the warehouse, or out on the display floor..... Other brands do actually stock parts.

gnm109

09-11-2010, 11:00 PM

Both Grizzly and Enco have a 13 X 40 that is virtually identical. (Grizzly calls it a 13-1/2 X 40, LOL). It's identical to my 1994 Enco 13 X 40. I like a 13 since you can use a BXA toolpost and 5/8" tools. It also has an MT3 tailpost that will take a nice 1/8" to 5/8" Keyless chuck. You also get a nice 6" three jaw and an 8" 4 jaw with a 1-1/2 spindle bore. Speeds are either 8 or 16 depending on model with a 1-1/2 to 2 hp single phase motor. You can cut all sorts of metric and Imperial threads as well with the QC gearbox.

Yeah, I know, they are larger, take up more room, cost more and so on. It could be your last lathe, too. It's amazing what you can do with one of them.

I'm not arguing for Grizzly or Enco, just for a 13" lathe. It puts you in a different class as to what you can do with it. A used American lathe would be nice. Back in the 90's I spent the better part of the year looking for and at used American lathes and couldn't fnd even one that wasn't wiped out.

There's something nice about something new in the crate. Mine still runs like the day I got it.

JMO.

woodspinner

09-11-2010, 11:27 PM

Hi guys

Thanks for all the info.I'll let you know what I get.Having a 7x10 HF used and a old Atlas (which is really used ) I'm just having a time trying to deside.
But thanks for all the help it's making things easyer .

Woodspinner

radkins

09-12-2010, 12:16 AM

I'm not arguing for Grizzly or Enco, just for a 13" lathe. It puts you in a difference class as to what you can do with it. A used American lathe would be nice. Back in the 90's I spent the better part of the year looking for and at used American lathes and couldn't fnd even one that wasn't wiped out.

There's something nice about something new in the crate. Mine still runs like the day I got it.JMO.

Same story here, I searched and waited and wasted a lot of time and gas looking but everything I found was either scrap iron or too expensive and by expensive I mean about 3 times what I paid for my Chinese import. Since I was going Chinese anyway and still stinging from the price screwing I took on that little Jet I decided to get my 14x40 from HF because it was identical to the Enco 14x40 and the Birmingham YCL1440 but a heck of a lot cheaper. I run it everyday and I am still waiting for all those parts to break, they will won't they? Everyone says they are going to! :confused:

Dr Stan

09-12-2010, 12:34 AM

Well I'm glad some have had a good experience with the Chinese lathes, Jet, HF or whatever. My experience with Jet 1440's was simply the worst lathes I have ever encountered.

I have two SB's, a 9 X 40 and a 14 1/2 X I forget, but around 54 or 60. I had to wait and look for the 14 1/2 and ended up driving about 400 miles each way to get the machine. However, I'm really glad I did. BTW, the 9" was given to me. :D Not running at the time, but now runs like a sewing machine.

radkins

09-12-2010, 05:43 PM

Well I'm glad some have had a good experience with the Chinese lathes, Jet, HF or whatever. My experience with Jet 1440's was simply the worst lathes I have ever encountered..

The little time I have with a "real" lathe helps me to understand why you feel the Chinese lathes are a bad experience, it is easy to see the difference between the two and given a real choice I would not have bought Chinese. It has been my opinion that the Chinese machines are the same no matter who is selling them and although I might argue a HF lathe is as good as an Enco for example I would never argue they are as good as the American or European industrial machines. Those of us who are willing to accept the Chinese quality for economic reasons are usually quite satisfied with them for hobby use but I doubt a pro trying to make a living with one would have much, if anything, good to say about them-for a good reason! I am very happy with my HF lathe and I know a lot of other people are too but most of us are not using them in an industrial setting and they are adequate for what we do with them, I have no regrets at all about buying Chinese from HF but I do understand why someone with a lot of experience with "real" machines might be disappointed with one.

gnm109

09-12-2010, 07:23 PM

The little time I have with a "real" lathe helps me to understand why you feel the Chinese lathes are a bad experience, it is easy to see the difference between the two and given a real choice I would not have bought Chinese. It has been my opinion that the Chinese machines are the same no matter who is selling them and although I might argue a HF lathe is as good as an Enco for example I would never argue they are as good as the American or European industrial machines. Those of us who are willing to accept the Chinese quality for economic reasons are usually quite satisfied with them for hobby use but I doubt a pro trying to make a living with one would have much, if anything, good to say about them-for a good reason! I am very happy with my HF lathe and I know a lot of other people are too but most of us are not using them in an industrial setting and they are adequate for what we do with them, I have no regrets at all about buying Chinese from HF but I do understand why someone with a lot of experience with "real" machines might be disappointed with one.

There are different levels of Chinese as well as Taiwanese. We can't lump them all together and then place them all underneath worn out American machiney that's 50 to 60 years old.

We also can't generalize about what a "pro trying to make a living" might do. Such a person isn't going to be using an American manual lathe very often anyway. More likely he'll have a Japanese Milling Station and something like a Mazak CNC lathe. He might have a manual machine or two in the shop somewhere but regardless of brand, he will make his money with CNC anymore. JMO.

.

Tony Ennis

09-12-2010, 07:32 PM

I'll add that some lathes are very heavy and thus difficult and dangerous to move. Especially if you need to get it into a basement. It's something else to take into account. I'd like a Grizzly 12" but at 1000# I'd have to be sure I could take enough parts off to get it into the basement.

J Tiers

09-12-2010, 08:45 PM

There are different levels of Chinese as well as Taiwanese. We can't lump them all together and then place them all underneath worn out American machiney that's 50 to 60 years old.

And there it is, folks..... I knew that good old phrase "worn out" was coming:D

Truth is, it takes a lot to make a decent machine "worn out"..... and more to make it unfixable. And few machines are really "worn out" so as to be unusable in the home shop anyway. But you'd never know it to listen to some folks....

Tony Ennis

09-12-2010, 09:10 PM

With used machines, whether they are Olde Iron or new, it all comes down to how much effort and treasure you're willing to invest, how much you're willing to learn, and how long you're willing to wait to have a machine that's usable to your level of satisfaction.

Then there's knowing machinery in general. There's no doubt Jerry knows his stuff. He probably can look at a machine and know when to walk away. And know when it's a diamond in the rough.

gnm109

09-12-2010, 09:56 PM

And there it is, folks..... I knew that good old phrase "worn out" was coming:D

Truth is, it takes a lot to make a decent machine "worn out"..... and more to make it unfixable. And few machines are really "worn out" so as to be unusable in the home shop anyway. But you'd never know it to listen to some folks....

Let me clarify. There's no way that I want some machine that numerous machinists have been beating up for many years. The ways will be well worn and often missing chunks of metal. There will be wear, missing parts and all manner of deviations from original equipment. Oh, and I might add, the folks that have them for sale will want absolutely top dollar. No thanks. No reason for me to do that.

If you are an expert in rescraping and a real pro at measurements and have the time, equipment and disposition, fine. Not all of us have that capability.

Here's an example of a machine restoration done by a real professional. The problems that he overcame are daunting to say the least. The thread goes from August of 2008 to August of 2009 - a full year. This sort of work is definitely not for the faint of heart.

There are different levels of Chinese as well as Taiwanese. We can't lump them all together and then place them all underneath worn out American machiney that's 50 to 60 years old.

We also can't generalize about what a "pro trying to make a living" might do. Such a person isn't going to be using an American manual lathe very often anyway. More likely he'll have a Japanese Milling Station and something like a Mazak CNC lathe. He might have a manual machine or two in the shop somewhere but regardless of brand, he will make his money with CNC anymore. JMO.

.

Yes there are different levels of Chinese & Taiwanese machinery, however the Jet 1440 is sold as a professional machine. The ones I had could not keep up with 50+ year old Logans. Some of the very large Chinese & Taiwanese machines are quite good.

As to manual V CNC machines. The best answer is it depends. If you are referring to someone who is running production I agree 100%. However, if you are referring to someone who makes prototypes, die sets, molds, in a maintenance shop, or otherwise makes or repairs "one offs" not necessarily. If the part has relatively simple geometry, a good manual machinist can make the part before the CNC machine is programmed.

gnm109

09-12-2010, 10:17 PM

Yes there are different levels of Chinese & Taiwanese machinery, however the Jet 1440 is sold as a professional machine. The ones I had could not keep up with 50+ year old Logans. Some of the very large Chinese & Taiwanese machines are quite good.

As to manual V CNC machines. The best answer is it depends. If you are referring to someone who is running production I agree 100%. However, if you are referring to someone who makes prototypes, die sets, molds, in a maintenance shop, or otherwise makes or repairs "one offs" not necessarily. If the part has relatively simple geometry, a good manual machinist can make the part before the CNC machine is programmed.

The problem with Jet is that it really isn't a "professional machine". All of their stuff is just rebranded with higher prices in beige paint.

The problem with our discussion is that we are both generalizing. So for more of that, the companies that are making it big in machine work are doing CNC. There may be a few that are strictly manual but they aren't making all that many parts.

In any case, the typical home machinist who is just getting into the hobby will be better off with a new Chinese machine than with a beater. He will get all of the stuff that goes with it and it will be ready to go once oil is poured into the gearbox. No scraping or chasing parts.

I couldn't find a decent lathe for less than $4,000 in Sacramento and that was 15 years ago. Two years ago, I started looking for a good milling machine. There were three in the area, all were more than $3,000 and all were junk. Two of the three had tables that looked like the face of the moon.

I finally found my Webb (3,500 pound Taiwan BP clone) and then I was good to go. JMO.

lakeside53

09-12-2010, 10:50 PM

As much as some think the 9x20 is a pos.. there are incredible numers of them in the hands of hsm guys, and some turn out amazing stuff.

My first lathe was a JET 9x20. Yes, I out grew it and bought a v10P, then out grew that and bought a 14x40, and now... :D but that's me...

The guy I sold my 9x20 to is still happy with it years later. It does what he wants it to do.

J Tiers

09-12-2010, 10:51 PM

if you want a NEW machine, that's fine. It will come from china, and it won't be as good "new" as a similar US machine was when "new"....

It may have serious problems, that are not immediately obvious. if it is a small entry level machine, it may be more of a "kit" than a "ready-to-use" machine. In many cases it probably will not have "back gears" for slower spindle speeds, which limits its usefulness.

But it certainly won't cost as much as the US stuff did when new (including inflation).

it's all a matter of what you want. If you want "new" and no nonsense, you will pay more. Surprise. if you are willing to do some work, you can get a nice used machine that will do whatever you want to do, for MUCH less than a new machine.

You can even buy a used chinese machine.....

Let me clarify. There's no way that I want some machine that numerous machinists have been beating up for many years. The ways will be well worn and often missing chunks of metal. There will be wear, missing parts and all manner of deviations from original equipment. Oh, and I might add, the folks that have them for sale will want absolutely top dollar. No thanks. No reason for me to do that.

Well YOUR mind is made up........ we won't bother YOU with the facts.

For the others.....I have bought a number of machines...... And I don't typically find that sort of thing.....

If you demand a large industrial machine, well, then you may be more correct. They often are used hard and tossed when no longer wanted or considered suitable. That is not a guarantee that such a machine is worthless, or that it has all the things that gnm109 says they all "will" have.

But that puts YOU in the minority. Most of us have a machine in the 10" to 12" area. Atlas, Logan. S-B, maybe Sheldon, Sebastian, etc.

There are numerous of those machines out and around that are NOT "worn out", that DO NOT have huge chunks missing from the ways etc. there might ba a part missing, maybe a handle, etc. Is a price $700 to $2500 higher a fair price for a handle?

and, if you suppose that "machinists" (your term) have abused the machines that much, well they were not the "machinists" I know. They sound more like hacks to me.

The hobby machines are usually much more lightly used, FAR less "worn", and often come with lots of goodies that the owners have accumulated. You can even buy a chinese lathe used, if nothing but a unit from china will satisfy you.

As for the dreaded "wear"...... so what? Every machine you have is worn now..... if you actually use it, and don't spend your shop time polishing and measuring your machines for wear.......

We have already disposed of the tiny and almost unmeasureable error that bed wear of 0.01" (ten thous) will produce on a 1" diameter shaft. My 1942 Logan 10" has 0.004" of bed wear, per measurements I made some time ago. It is deeper near the chuck, of course. It is not a problem.

I have no "dog in this fight"..... I don't sell machines, and by touting used stuff, I am actually adding competition for the existing used supply of machines I might buy.

But When I see yet another person threatening to buy a "9 x 20", which is just not in the same category with even the "worn" used stuff, US or chinese, of somewhat heavier construction, I bring it up.

lakeside53

09-12-2010, 10:58 PM

The 2 Emco V10P's and the TUM35 14x40 I bought were certainly not "worn out". The TUM had been in a production environment since 1985. Neglected? yes.. but noting important to precision operation.

On the other hand... I did get to work on a Cadilac that has been used as a "second op deburr and grind" center".. lol... the bed had 30 thou of wear near the chuck, and everything else was ground badly with TP grinder grit, but in my experience, that's the exception.

Lately I've seen more and more really nice manual lathes available -most shops have little use for a manual lathes, and are turning them out to pasture. Wish I could say the same about BP mills though.. most I see are in bad shape.

gnm109

09-13-2010, 12:26 AM

<snip>

Well YOUR mind is made up........ we won't bother YOU with the facts.

<snip>

.

I've learned that facts on the internet are what the other person says they are. You offer a bunch of generalizatoins. There's nothing more to talk about.

J Tiers

09-13-2010, 09:28 AM

I've learned that facts on the internet are what the other person says they are. You offer a bunch of generalizatoins. There's nothing more to talk about.

Yep, I am just the ONLY one making a lot of generalizations here......

You on the other hand, offer DOCUMENTED FACTS.

On the internet, it is well known that positive statements, such as "x, y, and z WILL be true" is a valid form of documentation, equal in every way to footnoted citations. You very properly used this form of documentation in your original statement.

There's no way that I want some machine that numerous machinists have been beating up for many years. The ways will be well worn and often missing chunks of metal. There will be wear, missing parts and all manner of deviations from original equipment. Oh, and I might add, the folks that have them for sale will want absolutely top dollar.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes:

If the OP is willing to reconsider his original demand for ONLY NEW equipment, applying the savings to tooling etc, I would strongly advise him to TOTALLY DISREGARD your unfortunately rather ignorant blanket generalizations, and make his decision based on the actual condition of the equipment he looks at.

Rif

09-13-2010, 09:47 AM

Hello,

The direction of this discussion reminded me of this article: http://www.mermac.com/klunker2.html

The wear, on a lathe, doesn't matter so much as it's repeatability. The carriage on my South Bend 13 drops around 0.025 from around 2 feet from the chuck to the chuck. Even so, keeping a tight tolerance isn't hard at all because I can rely on the fact that the machine will always be off by x at position y. So, I just compensate for it. Oh, yeah, I never bothered to level my lathe, either. Some day, I will, as I bought a level but never bought the feet.

Regards,

Brian

radkins

09-13-2010, 11:45 AM

I think the whole thing "in a nutshell" (as the old saying goes) is that those who demand old iron and would never consider a Chinese lathe will never understand why we would accept one. The FACT is that most of us would prefer old iron if we could have one and that seems to be where the disagreement comes in, it seems to be the belief that if we tried hard enough we could find a decent deal and I suppose that too is FACT. The problem is this all too often, whether some want to believe it or not, decent deals are not easy to find and had rather have a new Chinese machine right now that is ready to run and that we can make parts with instead of hunting, waiting and traveling long distances for. That description of worn out machines is exactly what I saw a lot of, again whether anyone wants to believe it or not, and that description of the mill table looking like the surface of the moon was the type of machines I was finding, I had in fact already used that description myself! I did indeed find lathes with chunks out of the ways, well maybe not chunks but obvious damage from parts being dropped on them, damage that would have required a LOT of work to repair.

gnm109

09-13-2010, 11:56 AM

Yep, I am just the ONLY one making a lot of generalizations here......

You on the other hand, offer DOCUMENTED FACTS.

On the internet, it is well known that positive statements, such as "x, y, and z WILL be true" is a valid form of documentation, equal in every way to footnoted citations. You very properly used this form of documentation in your original statement.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes:

If the OP is willing to reconsider his original demand for ONLY NEW equipment, applying the savings to tooling etc, I would strongly advise him to TOTALLY DISREGARD your unfortunately rather ignorant blanket generalizations, and make his decision based on the actual condition of the equipment he looks at.

Yeah and we should all buy worn out American junk and rebuild it.....or maybe just close our eyes and tell ourselves that a .004 dip in the ways at the chuck is OK....

This is, after all, the Home shop Machinist site. I guess you forgot that. Your advice would be better received over on PM where talk about lower end Chnese machinery for hobbyists is expressly forbidden. I read your stuff over there as well and you are just as rude and arrogant over there. Why not stay over there?

Junk is junk.

Dr Stan

09-13-2010, 01:58 PM

Geech and I'm accused of being argumentative. :confused:

lakeside53

09-13-2010, 02:16 PM

Something is wrong here... an argument evolves and Evan is not to be seen :D

Dr Stan

09-13-2010, 04:13 PM

Something is wrong here... an argument evolves and Evan is not to be seen :D

maybe we should send him a private message :D

woodspinner

09-13-2010, 10:52 PM

Hi guys
Sorry I tryed to get some info from you ,I see that this is not the place I was lead to believe it was I thought this was about equip and machining.But I see the threads get hi-jacked for peoples own ideas.

Dr Stan

09-13-2010, 11:13 PM

Hi guys
Sorry I tryed to get some info from you ,I see that this is not the place I was lead to believe it was I thought this was about equip and machining.But I see the threads get hi-jacked for peoples own ideas.

Woodspinner,

If you think this place is bad, go visit the Practical Machinist. You'll get banned for asking about a small lathe.

Stan

lakeside53

09-13-2010, 11:22 PM

lol.. and if you don't [get banned], you'll find the same faces (different handles) arguing.

Try http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewforum.php?f=4

Much slower pace...

J Tiers

09-14-2010, 12:16 AM

Hi guys
Sorry I tryed to get some info from you ,I see that this is not the place I was lead to believe it was I thought this was about equip and machining.But I see the threads get hi-jacked for peoples own ideas.

Not at all... well, some side issues always come up.;)

But you mentioned BOTH new AND used, apparently even looked at some, so it's on-topic to mention used.....

You can save quite a bit of money with used, AND end up with a machine that will still do more work than the 9 x 20. WITH money enough left to buy the tooling you want and will need.

Or maybe even a mill with the savings...... I got a nice usable Benchmaster for $150 a few weeks ago. (I paid the asking price, no haggling, Snowman). I'm going to go through it thoroughly, but I'd not really HAVE to do anything but clean it up and replace the power cord.

Seriously...... ignore the vocal doubters who insist ALL old machines are "worn out"......0.004 dip by the chuck IS NOT a huge deal. it will cause about a tenth or so diameter error on a 1" shaft.......Maybe you can measure that accurately, and maybe not. The "horrible wear" doesn't affect you much if at all.

Now, if you do insist on new, and that is a perfectly valid approach, even if it is a LOT more expensive, I'd strongly suggest you jump UP from the 9 x 20.....

Mind, people USE the 9 x 20.... it's not like they don't.......... But you get a lot better machine at the 12" or 14" class. More solid, better features, much more like old iron, actually........ (someone will trash me for saying that, I'm sure)

Some of the 12" and up have MORE iron in them, and MORE solid beds than "good old" machines like Atlas, or some Southbend..... I'm not a die-hard "old is better" "my way or the highway" type..... A new larger chinese machine with good fit and finish would be much better than any of the lightweight used stuff. But you'd pay more than I expect most DO pay, to get that.

I just hate to see someone buying a SMALL machine NEW for big bucks, a machine that is really and truly inferior even to older lightweight hobby machines like Atlas.....Even if the old ones have some wear.

Buy bigger new, or bigger used, but buy BIGGER.

radkins

09-14-2010, 02:21 AM

I just hate to see someone buying a SMALL machine NEW for big bucks, a machine that is really and truly inferior even to older lightweight hobby machines like Atlas.....Even if the old ones have some wear.

In the case of that 9x20, regardless of the brand they are all the same, the description of "inferior" is being nice to the darn thing. I did make some decent stuff on mine and some things that actually were too large for a machine of it's capability so yes you can get some use out of one but it will be an exercise in frustration every time you use it. Accuracy is terrible and the 4 jaw chuck that comes with the thing is a bad joke, the tool post is so weak you can see it flex and things like the live center that comes with it is best tossed in the trash as soon as it is unpacked. Then there is the little rubber band they call a drive belt that will break often and the lead screw that tends to jam and break those plastic gears, I knew that was going to be a problem when I unpacked everything and found a spare plastic gear! :rolleyes: All of these items are easy to find but are not cheap, about $40 for that $2 plastic gear and you will need them often if you use the thing very much. I could go on and on but what's the point? The 12" and larger machines however are as different as night and day compared to the 9x20 and most people who own them are quite happy with them.