Transcript

Amanda Lohrey has focused on Pentecostalism and its influence on politics in Australia in the latest edition of the publication Quarterly Essay.

Entitled 'Voting for Jesus', her essay finds that claims of religious revival in Australia are overstated as is the weight of the so-called megachurches like the Assemblies of God, which include places like Adelaide's Australian Idol-producing Paradise church.

Ms Lohrey says that even the significance of Family First is overplayed, and that most politicians only recognise Christian churches, mega or otherwise, when it suits them.

She also raises concern about the implications of generous tax exemptions available to the churches, singling out Hillsong Emerge, the charity arm of Hillsong, and backs a recent call made by the Humanist Society for a review of government subsidies available to the churches.

From her home in north-east Tasmania, Amanda Lohrey spoke to The Religion Report's Toni Hassan.

Amanda Lohrey: The biggest question marks over the megachurches are what their actual religious project is, the ramifications of their tax exempt status, their claims to do charity work which on the basis of some of the things that have been revealed in recent times they're not doing. I mean Hillsong, for example, was written up in The Australian not so long ago as having to give back certain government grants. And indeed one wonders in the light of that whether we'll see any more politicians out there on the Hillsong platform.

Toni Hassan: Well that is interesting, but given their marketing success with the stream of books, CDs, and DVDs that churches like Hillsong produce, do you say that they should be stripped of their tax exemption?

Amanda Lohrey: There's no accountability at all, and in fact I think they have been given some favours by the current Coalition government, because they speak very directly to a right-wing Christian support conservative politics. It suits the current government to foster an alliance with these churches.

Toni Hassan: But how loose or real is that alliance? Because Family First's Stephen Fielding said very much about his push for family impact statements on all proposed government legislation, and he believed he had a deal with the Coalition about that, but he got nowhere. So how strong is this relationship?

Amanda Lohrey: It's strong, but it's entirely to the Coalition's advantage, I think. I think the government cynically uses religion and religious groups to further their agenda when it suits them, and is then dismissive of these religious groups when it doesn't. I mean they're happy for the Anglican bishops and the Catholic Cardinal to attack Mark Latham on his proposal at the last election 2004, to cut back on funding for wealthy church schools, but the minute that the Bishops oppose Iraq or the industrial relations legislation, they're told that they're not experts in these fields and they should shut up.

But as for Steve Fielding, I think again the media have hyped his election out of all proportion. He polled very badly in fact. He was elected on Labor preferences.

Toni Hassan: Well you point out that the election of Steve Fielding was as much the product of decisions taken by the ALP machine as any uprush of Christian political insurgency.

Amanda Lohrey: Absolutely.

Toni Hassan: So what is his party's success in the future going to be? Is his success an aberration?

Amanda Lohrey: Yes. The only success any minority party has, Christian or otherwise, is if they hold the balance of power. Now he doesn't, so in effect in Canberra he is completely irrelevant and the Coalition at the moment treat him with courtesy in public and contempt in private. And he hasn't managed to extract anything out of them whatsoever.

Toni Hassan: Why should it surprise us though that Australian politicians would astutely and cynically play to Steve Fielding?

Amanda Lohrey: Well it doesn't surprise me, and I don't think it would surprise anyone else. They work all the margins as best they can, and they've seen the example of America, where the Democrats allowed themselves to be manoeuvred into a position of being thought of by much of the electorate as godless, and the Labor party in Australia is alert to this. Kevin Rudd in particular has a strategy for dealing with this. He has, as you know, convened a Faith and Values Caucus of Christians within the ALP, and their project is to make sure that Christians in the broader society don't fall into the illusion that Labor is anti-religion. Now this seems to me to be perfectly legitimate; religion's a part of society, it's a free country and people with religious views are entitled to speak out. It's more about accountability, transparency. These are the big issues in a democracy, not that it's not covert and it's not deceptive.

Toni Hassan: Kevin Rudd certainly is espousing a view of some in American that God is neither a Democrat nor a Republican, he's neither Labor or Liberal, but what sort of techniques is he having to employ? Because you write that members of the Labor party are reputed to have warned members of the Labor Caucus against public criticism of Hillsong. How do you know that?

Amanda Lohrey: Well I was told that in confidence by people who have access to what goes on in the Senate. I can't say who, or they won't ever tell me anything again.

Toni Hassan: Do you think Labor's been cowered by the megachurches?

Amanda Lohrey: Not at all, no not at all. I think Labor's being very astute. The minute they attack anyone, it rebounds on them, and they will then be in the position of the Democrats and be described as godless, and anti-religion, which they're not. Quite a significant proportion of the ALP Caucus are practising Christians. So I think they're just being strategically astute. I mean one can argue whether there should be any intervention of religion in politics at all. That's one argument. The other argument is that it has a place in politics and so it's going to be my religion against yours, and in the case of the so-called spiritual progressive, which is the new term, it's about the social gospel which emphasises not moral politics, as in homosexuality, abortion and euthanasia, but the social gospel of kindness to strangers and helping the poor and disadvantaged.

Toni Hassan: When you say Kevin Rudd and his party are being astute, does the influence of the megachurches really extend beyond politicians being more cautious?

Amanda Lohrey: Not at the moment I don't think it does at all. I think perhaps the most significant locus for the new Pentecostalists is in the New South Wales State Liberal party where for many years, for over three decades, the extreme Christian right has been strong. Up until recently, the head of preselection in the State Liberal party was a member of Hillsong; he may still be. And of course there are an increasing number of fundamentalists being preselected, and we now have this fascinating rumble in the party about whether or not Pru Goward will be endorsed for the seat of Epping. Now Pru Goward of course is anybody's ideal candidate, Labor or Liberal, and it looks like that she'll be edged out by a right-wing Christian who's a former President of the Right to Life group. Now if you believe, as I did, an Australian electorate is basically moderate about these things, I think this is a shooting-yourself-in-the-foot strategy and that where an extremist Christian faction gets a grip on a party, as it clearly has in the New South Wales State Liberal party, it's more likely to keep that party out of government than get it in.

Toni Hassan: So what then is the future of the charismatic movement in Australia?

Amanda Lohrey: Well the charismatic movement I think will consolidate. It may even have peaked. A church that puts a heavy tithe on your income and demands certain other practices such as no sex before marriage for young people, is never going to have a broad appeal beyond a certain proportion of the population. I mean it just isn't. There's no reason to assume it will grow into a major force, because of the fact that it is aimed at the affluent, and it is prohibitive in a number of spheres. It is for example, anti-abortion. The overwhelming majority of Australian women are pro-abortion.

Toni Hassan: Can I just finally point you back to what you were saying earlier, that the success of these churches is built on their ability to pull in crowds, or aggregate people from far-flung suburbs, and that politicians love a crowd, it provides a chance for them, those politicians, to talk to a range of people and convince them that perhaps they're on the same side. So isn't it interesting that you have sort of the question of who's exploiting who?

Amanda Lohrey: Exactly. Who is exploiting who?

Toni Hassan: Are they conscious, the churches, do you think of this?

Amanda Lohrey: I think the bishops; the Anglican and Catholic bishops are old stagers at this game. The new Pentecostalists are on a fast learning curve, and I think that as long as they get their tax breaks which is the basis of their empire- their tax exemption is the basis of their empire. And you've got to remember that part of their project is worldwide to build new churches in Moscow, Paris, Berlin and so on. It's not just about Australia. So a lot of that money is there to go overseas and build the new Pentecostalism in other centres. So as long as they have the basis of their financial empire, which is quite extraordinary, I think they are prepared to fudge the rest of it in local politics.

Noel Debien: Amanda Lohrey there, author and essayist with Toni Hassan. And Amanda's Quarterly essay is titled 'Voting for Jesus; Christianity and Politics in Australia' and it's published by Black Inc.

And just before we go, a postscript to last week's program.

Last week we made mention of the Prime Minister of East Timor, Mari Alkatiri as being born in Yemen. Mr Alkatiri was born in Dili, and is of Yemeni descent.