A SENIOR councillor is joining the UK Independence Party after quitting the Conservatives, claiming his former party had been “modernised and detoxified out of existence”.

Parkstone councillor Tony Woodcock acknowledged there had been disagreements with council leader Cllr Elaine Atkinson but said they were not the main reason for him quitting.

In a statement, he said: “I have resigned from the Conservative Party because it has been modernised and detoxified out of existence. It is not now the Conservative Party I have worked for for 40 years. The party has changed.

“I now find my political views and ideals are reflected in the policies of the UK Independence Party. I shall not be standing down as a councillor.

“UK Independence do not believe in a party whipping policy or expect their councillors to conform to a group-think laid down for them by their leaders. Therefore, I shall be able to voice openly and honestly the concerns of residents.

“Locally, my major concern for Poole is the Navitus Windfarm off Poole Bay, which will cost us all an arm and a leg, will not consistently produce the goods, will be environmentally risky and will despoil our heritage coast. Residents' objections have been shunned by all Poole parties when I have asked for a fair representation of the other side of the case. Requests for all residents to be informed and allowed to speak have been turned down.”

He added that the government had been “stalling” on an EU referendum “while they cobble together a few minor and inessential changes to keep us in”.

Cllr Woodcock told the Echo that his resignation was not about disputes with Cllr Atkinson.

“There have been disagreements but you deal with those. They are not the principal reason why I'm leaving the Conservative group,” he added.

Cllr Atkinson said “I'm sad that Tony has resigned from the Conservative group but he's said to me that it isn't about the leadership.”

She added: “Most people of my generation and small business people don't want to come out of Europe. They want the best we can get out of Europe,” she said.

I've no time for people who get elected on one ticket and then jump to another. Resign your seat and force a by-election, Mr Woodcock, that's the only way to ensure that the voters endorse your decision.

I've no time for people who get elected on one ticket and then jump to another. Resign your seat and force a by-election, Mr Woodcock, that's the only way to ensure that the voters endorse your decision.In Absentia

In Absentia wrote:
I've no time for people who get elected on one ticket and then jump to another. Resign your seat and force a by-election, Mr Woodcock, that's the only way to ensure that the voters endorse your decision.

More like get the sheep who can't think for themselves to once again trot down to the polling station and cast their votes for the same old, stale parties (the individual doesn't count with the dominance of party politics at local level), only to get sheared by the guy who went to the wrong opticians.

[quote][p][bold]In Absentia[/bold] wrote:
I've no time for people who get elected on one ticket and then jump to another. Resign your seat and force a by-election, Mr Woodcock, that's the only way to ensure that the voters endorse your decision.[/p][/quote]More like get the sheep who can't think for themselves to once again trot down to the polling station and cast their votes for the same old, stale parties (the individual doesn't count with the dominance of party politics at local level), only to get sheared by the guy who went to the wrong opticians.breamoreboy

In Absentia wrote: I've no time for people who get elected on one ticket and then jump to another. Resign your seat and force a by-election, Mr Woodcock, that's the only way to ensure that the voters endorse your decision.

More like get the sheep who can't think for themselves to once again trot down to the polling station and cast their votes for the same old, stale parties (the individual doesn't count with the dominance of party politics at local level), only to get sheared by the guy who went to the wrong opticians.

If you can't cope with democracy that's too bad. If Mr Woodcock convinces enough people he'll get the endorsement required. It's a myth to say that a chamber full of independent candidates will be much of an improvement. States like Jersey and Guernsey have no political parties, it still leads to shambolic government with grubby deals being done.

[quote][p][bold]breamoreboy[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]In Absentia[/bold] wrote: I've no time for people who get elected on one ticket and then jump to another. Resign your seat and force a by-election, Mr Woodcock, that's the only way to ensure that the voters endorse your decision.[/p][/quote]More like get the sheep who can't think for themselves to once again trot down to the polling station and cast their votes for the same old, stale parties (the individual doesn't count with the dominance of party politics at local level), only to get sheared by the guy who went to the wrong opticians.[/p][/quote]If you can't cope with democracy that's too bad. If Mr Woodcock convinces enough people he'll get the endorsement required. It's a myth to say that a chamber full of independent candidates will be much of an improvement. States like Jersey and Guernsey have no political parties, it still leads to shambolic government with grubby deals being done.In Absentia

He should really have resigned and stood for re-election - as a UKIP Councillor - any politician in office changing colours should HAVE to stand down and competitively re-present themselves to voters.

Although in this particular instance a bye-election would probably would have changed nothing, apart from strengthening his and UKIP's positions and encouraging many other Poole, Bournemouth and Christchurch Councillors to consider following.

A wise move never the less Councillor!

He should really have resigned and stood for re-election - as a UKIP Councillor - any politician in office changing colours should HAVE to stand down and competitively re-present themselves to voters.
Although in this particular instance a bye-election would probably would have changed nothing, apart from strengthening his and UKIP's positions and encouraging many other Poole, Bournemouth and Christchurch Councillors to consider following.
A wise move never the less Councillor!muscliffman

In Absentia wrote:
I've no time for people who get elected on one ticket and then jump to another. Resign your seat and force a by-election, Mr Woodcock, that's the only way to ensure that the voters endorse your decision.

What such poppicock. Are you Conservative by any chance. If Cllr Woodcock stepped down and forced a Bye Election, the electorate would instantly vote back in a Tory, because the public voter is brainwashed into the scenario, "Better the Devil you know". By Mr Woodcock stepping straight into UKIP, he can do what he wants to do for the electorate, ensuring their votes as depicted above at the next proper elections.

[quote][p][bold]In Absentia[/bold] wrote:
I've no time for people who get elected on one ticket and then jump to another. Resign your seat and force a by-election, Mr Woodcock, that's the only way to ensure that the voters endorse your decision.[/p][/quote]What such poppicock. Are you Conservative by any chance. If Cllr Woodcock stepped down and forced a Bye Election, the electorate would instantly vote back in a Tory, because the public voter is brainwashed into the scenario, "Better the Devil you know". By Mr Woodcock stepping straight into UKIP, he can do what he wants to do for the electorate, ensuring their votes as depicted above at the next proper elections.TheDistrict

She added: “Most people of my generation and small business people don't want to come out of Europe. They want the best we can get out of Europe,” she said.

If you are so sure of that Ms Atkinson, then you won't mind putting it to the people will you? But you are against that for the simple reason you know the people will vote us out of the EU. So you carry on convincing yourself that you KNOW what the people want. Talk about the head being where the sun doesn't shine.

She added: “Most people of my generation and small business people don't want to come out of Europe. They want the best we can get out of Europe,” she said.
If you are so sure of that Ms Atkinson, then you won't mind putting it to the people will you? But you are against that for the simple reason you know the people will vote us out of the EU. So you carry on convincing yourself that you KNOW what the people want. Talk about the head being where the sun doesn't shine.ShuttleX

Local elections should be just that ... we are not voting for the government we are voting for who is going to fill the holes in the road, how much we pay to park and local planning decisions so it matter not a jot who Mr woodcock supports in his voting habits What is important its what he does in his roll as a councillor ...

Local elections should be just that ... we are not voting for the government we are voting for who is going to fill the holes in the road, how much we pay to park and local planning decisions so it matter not a jot who Mr woodcock supports in his voting habits What is important its what he does in his roll as a councillor ...MotorbikeSam

The local conservative group have become out of touch and dictatorial so it comes as no surprise to see Councillors who are not in favour with Mrs Atkinson defect.
We have a conservative government who are doing a great job after Brown and his clowns however Poole Council are trying their best to destroy that on a local basis.
I have always voted conservative but on a local basis I could no longer do so. I would vote for a baboon so long as it did not belong to the local party

The local conservative group have become out of touch and dictatorial so it comes as no surprise to see Councillors who are not in favour with Mrs Atkinson defect.
We have a conservative government who are doing a great job after Brown and his clowns however Poole Council are trying their best to destroy that on a local basis.
I have always voted conservative but on a local basis I could no longer do so. I would vote for a baboon so long as it did not belong to the local partycunone

Cllr Atkinson said “Most people of my generation and small business people don't want to come out of Europe.

Well she looks about my age, over 70 and I can tell her most people I know of my age do want to come out of Europe.

Cllr Atkinson said “Most people of my generation and small business people don't want to come out of Europe.
Well she looks about my age, over 70 and I can tell her most people I know of my age do want to come out of Europe.High Treason

There are three issues here
1.Europe whether we should stay in the European Union
2.How a decision on that is best reached.
3,The nature of party government- on the assumption that Nigel Farage would like to be Prime Minister would he have a Cabinet of say thirty independents - would his MPS never be constrained by a three line whip and at he local does Councillor Woodcock think Poole would be better served by 40 independents. Councillors

What else does UKIP have on offer I think we ought to know

There are three issues here
1.Europe whether we should stay in the European Union
2.How a decision on that is best reached.
3,The nature of party government- on the assumption that Nigel Farage would like to be Prime Minister would he have a Cabinet of say thirty independents - would his MPS never be constrained by a three line whip and at he local does Councillor Woodcock think Poole would be better served by 40 independents. Councillors
What else does UKIP have on offer I think we ought to knowGordon Cann

kalebmoledirt wrote:
WIthout trying to start a stampede of councillors.where do UKIP stand on travellers

Of course you know where UKIP stand - so don't tease!

For anyone in any doubt UKIP would reverse the UK ethnic recognition of 'travellers' (as in the Irish Republic) and any undesirables who turn up and behave like they did in Poole last summer (and the summer before and.....) would be instantly arrested and carted off to be charged with breaking the law - exactly like the rest of us already would.

So simple, when you invite common sense back into the equation as UKIP tries to do on most issues.

[quote][p][bold]kalebmoledirt[/bold] wrote:
WIthout trying to start a stampede of councillors.where do UKIP stand on travellers[/p][/quote]Of course you know where UKIP stand - so don't tease!
For anyone in any doubt UKIP would reverse the UK ethnic recognition of 'travellers' (as in the Irish Republic) and any undesirables who turn up and behave like they did in Poole last summer (and the summer before and.....) would be instantly arrested and carted off to be charged with breaking the law - exactly like the rest of us already would.
So simple, when you invite common sense back into the equation as UKIP tries to do on most issues.muscliffman

Can we address the situation where the Travellers have been designated the site at Creekmoor. Why not Somewhere in Canford Cliffs,,Sandbanks..B
ranxholme Park.?.......What an insult it is to the good, hardworking, decent people who live in Creekmoor. Will they get a massive reduction on their Council Tax..One can only expect a massive depreciation in House prices when the invasion takes place..
Hang your heads in shame, because we know why these brave Council people were desperate to make Creekmoor the new home for these travellers. ONE COULD NOT POSSIBLY consider allowing them to bed down in CANFORD CLIFFS, SANDBANKS....one would be horrified at such a thought.......Reduct
ion in Council tax will be on thevAgenda .. for the good people of Creekmoor...will it...?

Can we address the situation where the Travellers have been designated the site at Creekmoor. Why not Somewhere in Canford Cliffs,,Sandbanks..B
ranxholme Park.?.......What an insult it is to the good, hardworking, decent people who live in Creekmoor. Will they get a massive reduction on their Council Tax..One can only expect a massive depreciation in House prices when the invasion takes place..
Hang your heads in shame, because we know why these brave Council people were desperate to make Creekmoor the new home for these travellers. ONE COULD NOT POSSIBLY consider allowing them to bed down in CANFORD CLIFFS, SANDBANKS....one would be horrified at such a thought.......Reduct
ion in Council tax will be on thevAgenda .. for the good people of Creekmoor...will it...?snowflakes

Cllr Atkinson said “Most people of my generation and small business people don't want to come out of Europe. They want the best we can get out of Europe,”.
.
Its not just about what you want you stupid woman, its about what the residents of this country want which ever way it may go.
Well done to Tony Woodcock, he would get my vote any day.

Cllr Atkinson said “Most people of my generation and small business people don't want to come out of Europe. They want the best we can get out of Europe,”.
.
Its not just about what you want you stupid woman, its about what the residents of this country want which ever way it may go.
Well done to Tony Woodcock, he would get my vote any day.Hessenford

In Absentia wrote: I've no time for people who get elected on one ticket and then jump to another. Resign your seat and force a by-election, Mr Woodcock, that's the only way to ensure that the voters endorse your decision.

More like get the sheep who can't think for themselves to once again trot down to the polling station and cast their votes for the same old, stale parties (the individual doesn't count with the dominance of party politics at local level), only to get sheared by the guy who went to the wrong opticians.

If you can't cope with democracy that's too bad. If Mr Woodcock convinces enough people he'll get the endorsement required. It's a myth to say that a chamber full of independent candidates will be much of an improvement. States like Jersey and Guernsey have no political parties, it still leads to shambolic government with grubby deals being done.

I take it you mean our representative form of government as we don't actually have a democracy? Not that it really matters, the system will never change as there are too many vested interests who want to keep it the way it is. The politicians at all levels are all interested in only one thing, lining their own pockets. "Blow you Jacks and Jills, we're alright"

[quote][p][bold]In Absentia[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]breamoreboy[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]In Absentia[/bold] wrote: I've no time for people who get elected on one ticket and then jump to another. Resign your seat and force a by-election, Mr Woodcock, that's the only way to ensure that the voters endorse your decision.[/p][/quote]More like get the sheep who can't think for themselves to once again trot down to the polling station and cast their votes for the same old, stale parties (the individual doesn't count with the dominance of party politics at local level), only to get sheared by the guy who went to the wrong opticians.[/p][/quote]If you can't cope with democracy that's too bad. If Mr Woodcock convinces enough people he'll get the endorsement required. It's a myth to say that a chamber full of independent candidates will be much of an improvement. States like Jersey and Guernsey have no political parties, it still leads to shambolic government with grubby deals being done.[/p][/quote]I take it you mean our representative form of government as we don't actually have a democracy? Not that it really matters, the system will never change as there are too many vested interests who want to keep it the way it is. The politicians at all levels are all interested in only one thing, lining their own pockets. "Blow you Jacks and Jills, we're alright"breamoreboy

This guy should retire from politics full stop. His bigoted and xenophobic party if given their way will lead the UK to a true period of isolation.

An isolation they won't care about because they won't be around to see it.

This guy should retire from politics full stop. His bigoted and xenophobic party if given their way will lead the UK to a true period of isolation.
An isolation they won't care about because they won't be around to see it.jeebuscripes

As long as the Rights fights, the left (and they exist in the Tory Party) will prevail.

The lesson of UKIP is that the Conservatives have to reclaim the party of Churchill and Thatcher from the Wets. There is no need for UKIP. The West should go to the opposiition.

As long as the Rights fights, the left (and they exist in the Tory Party) will prevail.
The lesson of UKIP is that the Conservatives have to reclaim the party of Churchill and Thatcher from the Wets. There is no need for UKIP. The West should go to the opposiition.Yankee1

Just what does UKIP have to contribute to local politics and government? I would have some respect for this man if he was becoming an independent with a direct focus on his Parkstone, Poole, constituents or allying with Poole People, but joining UKIP seems to be a bit of a fudge and curiously linked to them announcing opening an office in Parkstone.

Just what does UKIP have to contribute to local politics and government? I would have some respect for this man if he was becoming an independent with a direct focus on his Parkstone, Poole, constituents or allying with Poole People, but joining UKIP seems to be a bit of a fudge and curiously linked to them announcing opening an office in Parkstone.Gonetothebeach

In Absentia wrote:
I've no time for people who get elected on one ticket and then jump to another. Resign your seat and force a by-election, Mr Woodcock, that's the only way to ensure that the voters endorse your decision.

Nonsense. You vote for a candidate not a party. Anyone who does any different gets what they deserve. Any by-election is a waste of council tax payers money and would only be in place because voters were too lazy to research their candidates.

[quote][p][bold]In Absentia[/bold] wrote:
I've no time for people who get elected on one ticket and then jump to another. Resign your seat and force a by-election, Mr Woodcock, that's the only way to ensure that the voters endorse your decision.[/p][/quote]Nonsense. You vote for a candidate not a party. Anyone who does any different gets what they deserve. Any by-election is a waste of council tax payers money and would only be in place because voters were too lazy to research their candidates.s-pb2

Anyone who gets us out of this Euro mess gets my vote.
.
The last worm that made this PLEDGE is still wriggling in power.
.
Hopefully UKIP will bring back public hangings for the current mafia.

Anyone who gets us out of this Euro mess gets my vote.
.
The last worm that made this PLEDGE is still wriggling in power.
.
Hopefully UKIP will bring back public hangings for the current mafia.HRH of Boscombe

Sorry Cllr Atkinson, IT IS CLEARLY ALL ABOUT YOUR LEADERSHIP STYLE WHY DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THIS !!!!
Cllr Woodcock an honourable man may not have had the pleasure of stand up row with you but he makes it quite clear why he can no longer continue to serve in your group Led by YOU!!

Quote "UK Independence do not believe in a party whipping policy or expect their councillors to conform to a group-think laid down for them by their leaders. Therefore, I shall be able to voice openly and honestly the concerns of residents".

YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT DON'T YOU???

Sorry Cllr Atkinson, IT IS CLEARLY ALL ABOUT YOUR LEADERSHIP STYLE WHY DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THIS !!!!
Cllr Woodcock an honourable man may not have had the pleasure of stand up row with you but he makes it quite clear why he can no longer continue to serve in your group Led by YOU!!
Quote "UK Independence do not believe in a party whipping policy or expect their councillors to conform to a group-think laid down for them by their leaders. Therefore, I shall be able to voice openly and honestly the concerns of residents".
YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT DON'T YOU???Mad Karew

jeebuscripes wrote:
This guy should retire from politics full stop. His bigoted and xenophobic party if given their way will lead the UK to a true period of isolation.

An isolation they won't care about because they won't be around to see it.

Utter rubbish. It's nothing to do with being ' bigoted and xenophobic' The people of this country were never given a vote on joining the EU, only the common market to trade in goods. UKIP are the only party to guarantee a vote that should have happened before such massive changes were forced upon the UK and it's people.

[quote][p][bold]jeebuscripes[/bold] wrote:
This guy should retire from politics full stop. His bigoted and xenophobic party if given their way will lead the UK to a true period of isolation.
An isolation they won't care about because they won't be around to see it.[/p][/quote]Utter rubbish. It's nothing to do with being ' bigoted and xenophobic' The people of this country were never given a vote on joining the EU, only the common market to trade in goods. UKIP are the only party to guarantee a vote that should have happened before such massive changes were forced upon the UK and it's people.afcb-mark

Did any of you actually read this article? He's jumped ship because he doesn't like the direction of the national party! I wonder what most of you would have said if he'd defected to Labour instead.

Did any of you actually read this article? He's jumped ship because he doesn't like the direction of the national party! I wonder what most of you would have said if he'd defected to Labour instead.In Absentia

In Absentia wrote:
Did any of you actually read this article? He's jumped ship because he doesn't like the direction of the national party! I wonder what most of you would have said if he'd defected to Labour instead.

Seems understandable. What is there to like about any national party that is relevant to us here ?

[quote][p][bold]In Absentia[/bold] wrote:
Did any of you actually read this article? He's jumped ship because he doesn't like the direction of the national party! I wonder what most of you would have said if he'd defected to Labour instead.[/p][/quote]Seems understandable. What is there to like about any national party that is relevant to us here ?Ebb Tide

Well I applaud Cllr Woodcock, having the guts to standup to The Dictator leading Poole Council.
Resigning and causing a by-eelction would, as a previous subscriber said, merely return another brown nosed Tory (otherwise Atkinson would not allow him/her in!) It would also cost the Poole residents £15,000 for the election.
Woodcock will get my vote as a UKIP councillor (as he is one of my ward Councillors) and if he stands in the European and national election he will get my vote then as well.
Can someone somewhere, PLEASE get Atkinson sacked or make her resign before she totally ruins Poole.
Go back to London or wherever you came from, you are not wanted here!
Totally disillusioned ex life-long Tory!

Well I applaud Cllr Woodcock, having the guts to standup to The Dictator leading Poole Council.
Resigning and causing a by-eelction would, as a previous subscriber said, merely return another brown nosed Tory (otherwise Atkinson would not allow him/her in!) It would also cost the Poole residents £15,000 for the election.
Woodcock will get my vote as a UKIP councillor (as he is one of my ward Councillors) and if he stands in the European and national election he will get my vote then as well.
Can someone somewhere, PLEASE get Atkinson sacked or make her resign before she totally ruins Poole.
Go back to London or wherever you came from, you are not wanted here!
Totally disillusioned ex life-long Tory!Major Futtock

Alumchiner wrote:
I can see the attraction of UKIP as long ss they get rid of any weirdo's........but realistically, have they got any chance or will people split the Consrvative vote ?

What UKIP has a real chance of doing is changing British politics for the better, they have created the mallet to smash that Westminster bubble which our current politicians lock themselves behind but ti will still be down to the people to swing that mallet by voting. Of course with the first past the post system we use there is no way that UKIP could gain a majority but then Labour nor Conservative could not do that in 2010 when only three were in the running, so realistically there is even less chance of them doing so in 2015 now there are four. The constant smear campaigns against UKIP calling them racist, xenophobic etc are only being used because the political elite have seen what UKIP have done in the EU Parliament, they find out the true facts and tell the people about them, this happens to be the last thing they want to happen in our British parliament. The question is what do you want? Answers on a ballot paper soon.

I totally commend Tony Woodcock for making a stand for what he believes is right and I have no doubt he will come under a lot of flack from others because of it, but as UKIP councillors have the right to do what they feel is best for their constituents and not have to toe a party line. I have no doubts whatsoever he has made the right decision and will receive full support from the UKIP Poole & Mid Dorset Branch and the Party.

[quote][p][bold]Alumchiner[/bold] wrote:
I can see the attraction of UKIP as long ss they get rid of any weirdo's........but realistically, have they got any chance or will people split the Consrvative vote ?[/p][/quote]What UKIP has a real chance of doing is changing British politics for the better, they have created the mallet to smash that Westminster bubble which our current politicians lock themselves behind but ti will still be down to the people to swing that mallet by voting. Of course with the first past the post system we use there is no way that UKIP could gain a majority but then Labour nor Conservative could not do that in 2010 when only three were in the running, so realistically there is even less chance of them doing so in 2015 now there are four. The constant smear campaigns against UKIP calling them racist, xenophobic etc are only being used because the political elite have seen what UKIP have done in the EU Parliament, they find out the true facts and tell the people about them, this happens to be the last thing they want to happen in our British parliament. The question is what do you want? Answers on a ballot paper soon.
I totally commend Tony Woodcock for making a stand for what he believes is right and I have no doubt he will come under a lot of flack from others because of it, but as UKIP councillors have the right to do what they feel is best for their constituents and not have to toe a party line. I have no doubts whatsoever he has made the right decision and will receive full support from the UKIP Poole & Mid Dorset Branch and the Party.Marty Caine UKIP

'Fog in the English Channel- Europe cut off from Britain' such was the way in whIch our governing elites saw the world 100 years ago

Two world wars have taught us,or should have taught us, that we are part of Europe,in culture , trade and history

The single market of the European Union is fundamental to our prosperity; and withdrawal from the European Union would have very far reaching consequences, not least because decisions affecting our trade with Europe could be made without a UK voice when policy is decided. but also on foreign investment
and many other issues relating to the environment. fishing quotas where we would have no voice

The latent nationalism in UKIP is quite frightening; do we want to return to Rule Britannia and forget the lesson of recent history; UKIP is attracting support form the right wing of the Conservative Party whom I feel hanker after a world that never really existed

I am proud to be British and proud to be European - to any moderaley intelligent person those two beliefs are not incompatible , but what I do not want to be is a' Little Englander-' Salisbury Cathedral, Beethoven, Alexander Fleming, all part of our common European culture;lets celebrate out common culture . and not go down the blind alley of nationalism, especially this year of all years

'Fog in the English Channel- Europe cut off from Britain' such was the way in whIch our governing elites saw the world 100 years ago
Two world wars have taught us,or should have taught us, that we are part of Europe,in culture , trade and history
The single market of the European Union is fundamental to our prosperity; and withdrawal from the European Union would have very far reaching consequences, not least because decisions affecting our trade with Europe could be made without a UK voice when policy is decided. but also on foreign investment
and many other issues relating to the environment. fishing quotas where we would have no voice
The latent nationalism in UKIP is quite frightening; do we want to return to Rule Britannia and forget the lesson of recent history; UKIP is attracting support form the right wing of the Conservative Party whom I feel hanker after a world that never really existed
I am proud to be British and proud to be European - to any moderaley intelligent person those two beliefs are not incompatible , but what I do not want to be is a' Little Englander-' Salisbury Cathedral, Beethoven, Alexander Fleming, all part of our common European culture;lets celebrate out common culture . and not go down the blind alley of nationalism, especially this year of all yearsGordon Cann

Gordon Cann wrote:
'Fog in the English Channel- Europe cut off from Britain' such was the way in whIch our governing elites saw the world 100 years ago

Two world wars have taught us,or should have taught us, that we are part of Europe,in culture , trade and history

The single market of the European Union is fundamental to our prosperity; and withdrawal from the European Union would have very far reaching consequences, not least because decisions affecting our trade with Europe could be made without a UK voice when policy is decided. but also on foreign investment
and many other issues relating to the environment. fishing quotas where we would have no voice

The latent nationalism in UKIP is quite frightening; do we want to return to Rule Britannia and forget the lesson of recent history; UKIP is attracting support form the right wing of the Conservative Party whom I feel hanker after a world that never really existed

I am proud to be British and proud to be European - to any moderaley intelligent person those two beliefs are not incompatible , but what I do not want to be is a' Little Englander-' Salisbury Cathedral, Beethoven, Alexander Fleming, all part of our common European culture;lets celebrate out common culture . and not go down the blind alley of nationalism, especially this year of all years

It's funny how people knock nationalism, yet its is something that has always been a major part of British Culture, that pride in our country and a strong belief in its ability. You use the term little Englander in the wrong context completely, you think England is too little to go it alone and we need the EU to govern us, I still think of Great Britain and how it wasn't that long ago that we were the 5th largest trader in the world. Trade is a totally different concept to foreign rule and the latter is what the EU is offering us. Trade would continue regardless of our membership because Trade is something that is created by businesses not governments and trade negotiating is something that we happen to be incredibly good at.

[quote][p][bold]Gordon Cann[/bold] wrote:
'Fog in the English Channel- Europe cut off from Britain' such was the way in whIch our governing elites saw the world 100 years ago
Two world wars have taught us,or should have taught us, that we are part of Europe,in culture , trade and history
The single market of the European Union is fundamental to our prosperity; and withdrawal from the European Union would have very far reaching consequences, not least because decisions affecting our trade with Europe could be made without a UK voice when policy is decided. but also on foreign investment
and many other issues relating to the environment. fishing quotas where we would have no voice
The latent nationalism in UKIP is quite frightening; do we want to return to Rule Britannia and forget the lesson of recent history; UKIP is attracting support form the right wing of the Conservative Party whom I feel hanker after a world that never really existed
I am proud to be British and proud to be European - to any moderaley intelligent person those two beliefs are not incompatible , but what I do not want to be is a' Little Englander-' Salisbury Cathedral, Beethoven, Alexander Fleming, all part of our common European culture;lets celebrate out common culture . and not go down the blind alley of nationalism, especially this year of all years[/p][/quote]It's funny how people knock nationalism, yet its is something that has always been a major part of British Culture, that pride in our country and a strong belief in its ability. You use the term little Englander in the wrong context completely, you think England is too little to go it alone and we need the EU to govern us, I still think of Great Britain and how it wasn't that long ago that we were the 5th largest trader in the world. Trade is a totally different concept to foreign rule and the latter is what the EU is offering us. Trade would continue regardless of our membership because Trade is something that is created by businesses not governments and trade negotiating is something that we happen to be incredibly good at.Marty Caine UKIP

Gordon Cann wrote:
'Fog in the English Channel- Europe cut off from Britain' such was the way in whIch our governing elites saw the world 100 years ago

Two world wars have taught us,or should have taught us, that we are part of Europe,in culture , trade and history

The single market of the European Union is fundamental to our prosperity; and withdrawal from the European Union would have very far reaching consequences, not least because decisions affecting our trade with Europe could be made without a UK voice when policy is decided. but also on foreign investment
and many other issues relating to the environment. fishing quotas where we would have no voice

The latent nationalism in UKIP is quite frightening; do we want to return to Rule Britannia and forget the lesson of recent history; UKIP is attracting support form the right wing of the Conservative Party whom I feel hanker after a world that never really existed

I am proud to be British and proud to be European - to any moderaley intelligent person those two beliefs are not incompatible , but what I do not want to be is a' Little Englander-' Salisbury Cathedral, Beethoven, Alexander Fleming, all part of our common European culture;lets celebrate out common culture . and not go down the blind alley of nationalism, especially this year of all years

Excellent points Gordon Cann, I completely agree with you.

[quote][p][bold]Gordon Cann[/bold] wrote:
'Fog in the English Channel- Europe cut off from Britain' such was the way in whIch our governing elites saw the world 100 years ago
Two world wars have taught us,or should have taught us, that we are part of Europe,in culture , trade and history
The single market of the European Union is fundamental to our prosperity; and withdrawal from the European Union would have very far reaching consequences, not least because decisions affecting our trade with Europe could be made without a UK voice when policy is decided. but also on foreign investment
and many other issues relating to the environment. fishing quotas where we would have no voice
The latent nationalism in UKIP is quite frightening; do we want to return to Rule Britannia and forget the lesson of recent history; UKIP is attracting support form the right wing of the Conservative Party whom I feel hanker after a world that never really existed
I am proud to be British and proud to be European - to any moderaley intelligent person those two beliefs are not incompatible , but what I do not want to be is a' Little Englander-' Salisbury Cathedral, Beethoven, Alexander Fleming, all part of our common European culture;lets celebrate out common culture . and not go down the blind alley of nationalism, especially this year of all years[/p][/quote]Excellent points Gordon Cann, I completely agree with you.boardsandphotos

'Strange how people knock nationalism' not quite as strange as those who seem to deplore' internationalism'- pride in ones country has nothing to do with the intense nationalism that created two world wars;
as for our success in negotiating trade deals' something we are good at' -how does that square with our huge trade imbalances ; and are we really to believe that being shut out the single market will improve the trade imbalances we are currently experiencing?

Germany is subject to the same EU regulations and policies as we are but is a highly successful economy

UKIP, in my view. is a right wing ,extension of the Conservative Party, and it is time that was made clear so that the pretensions of the party to form a Government are fully exposed-,that said I wish it a limited degree of success -( not too much ! )as it will make it easier to see the present Coalition Government defeated so that a government can be formed which can begin to try and deal with the appalling level of inequality that exists in this country

'Strange how people knock nationalism' not quite as strange as those who seem to deplore' internationalism'- pride in ones country has nothing to do with the intense nationalism that created two world wars;
as for our success in negotiating trade deals' something we are good at' -how does that square with our huge trade imbalances ; and are we really to believe that being shut out the single market will improve the trade imbalances we are currently experiencing?
Germany is subject to the same EU regulations and policies as we are but is a highly successful economy
UKIP, in my view. is a right wing ,extension of the Conservative Party, and it is time that was made clear so that the pretensions of the party to form a Government are fully exposed-,that said I wish it a limited degree of success -( not too much ! )as it will make it easier to see the present Coalition Government defeated so that a government can be formed which can begin to try and deal with the appalling level of inequality that exists in this countryGordon Cann

Gordon Cann wrote:
'Strange how people knock nationalism' not quite as strange as those who seem to deplore' internationalism'- pride in ones country has nothing to do with the intense nationalism that created two world wars;
as for our success in negotiating trade deals' something we are good at' -how does that square with our huge trade imbalances ; and are we really to believe that being shut out the single market will improve the trade imbalances we are currently experiencing?

Germany is subject to the same EU regulations and policies as we are but is a highly successful economy

UKIP, in my view. is a right wing ,extension of the Conservative Party, and it is time that was made clear so that the pretensions of the party to form a Government are fully exposed-,that said I wish it a limited degree of success -( not too much ! )as it will make it easier to see the present Coalition Government defeated so that a government can be formed which can begin to try and deal with the appalling level of inequality that exists in this country

Yeah you can really see that equality factor in the EU, which is why Britain is forced to close perfectly good working power stages due to CO2 levels whilst at the same time Germany are building 6 new ones. I am a little curious though, where on earth did you get the idea that exiting the EU membership would equate to being shut out the single market, your most ironic comment was about the two world wars, the main reason there has not been a third one is because Germany have never been allowed the power to do so, now we have 27 countries handing them that power on plate. Maybe you've forgotten who started those two world wars, it certainly wasn't started by British nationalism!

[quote][p][bold]Gordon Cann[/bold] wrote:
'Strange how people knock nationalism' not quite as strange as those who seem to deplore' internationalism'- pride in ones country has nothing to do with the intense nationalism that created two world wars;
as for our success in negotiating trade deals' something we are good at' -how does that square with our huge trade imbalances ; and are we really to believe that being shut out the single market will improve the trade imbalances we are currently experiencing?
Germany is subject to the same EU regulations and policies as we are but is a highly successful economy
UKIP, in my view. is a right wing ,extension of the Conservative Party, and it is time that was made clear so that the pretensions of the party to form a Government are fully exposed-,that said I wish it a limited degree of success -( not too much ! )as it will make it easier to see the present Coalition Government defeated so that a government can be formed which can begin to try and deal with the appalling level of inequality that exists in this country[/p][/quote]Yeah you can really see that equality factor in the EU, which is why Britain is forced to close perfectly good working power stages due to CO2 levels whilst at the same time Germany are building 6 new ones. I am a little curious though, where on earth did you get the idea that exiting the EU membership would equate to being shut out the single market, your most ironic comment was about the two world wars, the main reason there has not been a third one is because Germany have never been allowed the power to do so, now we have 27 countries handing them that power on plate. Maybe you've forgotten who started those two world wars, it certainly wasn't started by British nationalism!Marty Caine UKIP

The absurdity of the UKIP position is illustrated by the above comment'' we now have 27 countries handing them ( Germany ) that power on a plate"
so 27 soverereign states who freely decide to share or pool some of their sovereignity to a wider European Union- have not really acted as they thought best for their own interests but have surrendered to Germany; the arrogance of such a perverted sense of nationalism is breathtaking !.

The absurdity of the UKIP position is illustrated by the above comment'' we now have 27 countries handing them ( Germany ) that power on a plate"
so 27 soverereign states who freely decide to share or pool some of their sovereignity to a wider European Union- have not really acted as they thought best for their own interests but have surrendered to Germany; the arrogance of such a perverted sense of nationalism is breathtaking !.Gordon Cann

Gordon Cann wrote:
'Strange how people knock nationalism' not quite as strange as those who seem to deplore' internationalism'- pride in ones country has nothing to do with the intense nationalism that created two world wars;
as for our success in negotiating trade deals' something we are good at' -how does that square with our huge trade imbalances ; and are we really to believe that being shut out the single market will improve the trade imbalances we are currently experiencing?

Germany is subject to the same EU regulations and policies as we are but is a highly successful economy

UKIP, in my view. is a right wing ,extension of the Conservative Party, and it is time that was made clear so that the pretensions of the party to form a Government are fully exposed-,that said I wish it a limited degree of success -( not too much ! )as it will make it easier to see the present Coalition Government defeated so that a government can be formed which can begin to try and deal with the appalling level of inequality that exists in this country

Yeah you can really see that equality factor in the EU, which is why Britain is forced to close perfectly good working power stages due to CO2 levels whilst at the same time Germany are building 6 new ones. I am a little curious though, where on earth did you get the idea that exiting the EU membership would equate to being shut out the single market, your most ironic comment was about the two world wars, the main reason there has not been a third one is because Germany have never been allowed the power to do so, now we have 27 countries handing them that power on plate. Maybe you've forgotten who started those two world wars, it certainly wasn't started by British nationalism!

How were we forced to close our coal-fired power stations ?

Is not carbon capture and storage (CCS) a suitable means of compliance ? Why have our politicians not responded by developing CCS ? Do they "know" that British inventors have passed their sell-by date ? How did they (the politicians who acceded to EU pressure) get to that level of certainty about CCS being unsuitable for the UK ?

Guess "no answer" will be the reply !!

[quote][p][bold]Marty Caine UKIP[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Gordon Cann[/bold] wrote:
'Strange how people knock nationalism' not quite as strange as those who seem to deplore' internationalism'- pride in ones country has nothing to do with the intense nationalism that created two world wars;
as for our success in negotiating trade deals' something we are good at' -how does that square with our huge trade imbalances ; and are we really to believe that being shut out the single market will improve the trade imbalances we are currently experiencing?
Germany is subject to the same EU regulations and policies as we are but is a highly successful economy
UKIP, in my view. is a right wing ,extension of the Conservative Party, and it is time that was made clear so that the pretensions of the party to form a Government are fully exposed-,that said I wish it a limited degree of success -( not too much ! )as it will make it easier to see the present Coalition Government defeated so that a government can be formed which can begin to try and deal with the appalling level of inequality that exists in this country[/p][/quote]Yeah you can really see that equality factor in the EU, which is why Britain is forced to close perfectly good working power stages due to CO2 levels whilst at the same time Germany are building 6 new ones. I am a little curious though, where on earth did you get the idea that exiting the EU membership would equate to being shut out the single market, your most ironic comment was about the two world wars, the main reason there has not been a third one is because Germany have never been allowed the power to do so, now we have 27 countries handing them that power on plate. Maybe you've forgotten who started those two world wars, it certainly wasn't started by British nationalism![/p][/quote]How were we forced to close our coal-fired power stations ?
Is not carbon capture and storage (CCS) a suitable means of compliance ? Why have our politicians not responded by developing CCS ? Do they "know" that British inventors have passed their sell-by date ? How did they (the politicians who acceded to EU pressure) get to that level of certainty about CCS being unsuitable for the UK ?
Guess "no answer" will be the reply !!Ebb Tide

Gordon Cann wrote:
The absurdity of the UKIP position is illustrated by the above comment'' we now have 27 countries handing them ( Germany ) that power on a plate&quot;
so 27 soverereign states who freely decide to share or pool some of their sovereignity to a wider European Union- have not really acted as they thought best for their own interests but have surrendered to Germany; the arrogance of such a perverted sense of nationalism is breathtaking !.

What you call arrogance I call fact, the people have never had a say on sharing sovereignty with anyone, what was initially a trade agreement has now been turned into a dictatorship of unelected EU bureaucrats. Now you obviously think that is a wonderful idea but then you think man can change the climate, so its really not a surprise. But if you think for one moment think that having pride in Britain is some form of perversion, I can only presume you are not British. It was that proudness that got us through those two world wars! The real problem has been those with the power to do so have acted in their own interest, they just haven't acted in the interest of their country or its people.

[quote][p][bold]Gordon Cann[/bold] wrote:
The absurdity of the UKIP position is illustrated by the above comment'' we now have 27 countries handing them ( Germany ) that power on a plate"
so 27 soverereign states who freely decide to share or pool some of their sovereignity to a wider European Union- have not really acted as they thought best for their own interests but have surrendered to Germany; the arrogance of such a perverted sense of nationalism is breathtaking !.[/p][/quote]What you call arrogance I call fact, the people have never had a say on sharing sovereignty with anyone, what was initially a trade agreement has now been turned into a dictatorship of unelected EU bureaucrats. Now you obviously think that is a wonderful idea but then you think man can change the climate, so its really not a surprise. But if you think for one moment think that having pride in Britain is some form of perversion, I can only presume you are not British. It was that proudness that got us through those two world wars! The real problem has been those with the power to do so have acted in their own interest, they just haven't acted in the interest of their country or its people.Marty Caine UKIP

It was not my intention to comment further . but the presumption that I am not British because I do not agree with whatever UKIP professes to say is a further example of arrogance;I spent 18 months doing National Service and my father fought at the Battle of the Somme and was a prisoner of war

The future lies in cooperation -not with' Little England-' like it or not we are European and -27 other independent nations have joined the European Union.

Finis.

It was not my intention to comment further . but the presumption that I am not British because I do not agree with whatever UKIP professes to say is a further example of arrogance;I spent 18 months doing National Service and my father fought at the Battle of the Somme and was a prisoner of war
The future lies in cooperation -not with' Little England-' like it or not we are European and -27 other independent nations have joined the European Union.
Finis.Gordon Cann

Gordon Cann wrote:
It was not my intention to comment further . but the presumption that I am not British because I do not agree with whatever UKIP professes to say is a further example of arrogance;I spent 18 months doing National Service and my father fought at the Battle of the Somme and was a prisoner of war

The future lies in cooperation -not with' Little England-' like it or not we are European and -27 other independent nations have joined the European Union.

Finis.

It was not what UKIP said it was what I said, do try to note the difference there and the fact that you refer to Great Britain as little England only goes to prove my point but as our differing opinions of Britain has nothing to do with this particular article, I will agree with the 'Finis' and bid you good day.

[quote][p][bold]Gordon Cann[/bold] wrote:
It was not my intention to comment further . but the presumption that I am not British because I do not agree with whatever UKIP professes to say is a further example of arrogance;I spent 18 months doing National Service and my father fought at the Battle of the Somme and was a prisoner of war
The future lies in cooperation -not with' Little England-' like it or not we are European and -27 other independent nations have joined the European Union.
Finis.[/p][/quote]It was not what UKIP said it was what I said, do try to note the difference there and the fact that you refer to Great Britain as little England only goes to prove my point but as our differing opinions of Britain has nothing to do with this particular article, I will agree with the 'Finis' and bid you good day.Marty Caine UKIP