How do you define the difference between Art and Craft was the question. I think one is the extension of the other. In order to be a good artist you need to be a good craftsman and in order to be a good craftsman it helps to be a good artist. Leonardo was a great artist and a great craftsman. Benzart is a great craftsman and a great artist.

It's interesting how there seems to be a hierarchy, when phrases like "Just a Craftsman" are used.

If everything made by Human hands is art, then would things made by machines built by human hands be a product of art itself?

How about the works of Jeff Koons, who certainly is considered one of the leading artist of the past 20 years, and he hires craftsmen to execute his ideas for him? (Like the chrome and steel knock-offs of crappy mylar cartoon balloons)

Stianed Glass seems to be a real cross-road of Art/craft and arts and crafts.

On 2006-01-27 18:26, Gigantalope wrote:How about the works of Jeff Koons, who certainly is considered one of the leading artist of the past 20 years, and he hires craftsmen to execute his ideas for him? (Like the chrome and steel knock-offs of crappy mylar cartoon balloons)

example:

It's not unusual for an artist to hire someone else to execute his/her ideas. For example, Dale Chihuly stopped making glass after he lost an eye in a 1976 auto accident; all of his work is now produced by glassblowers under his supervision.

I used to be an intern at an art gallery that specialized in public art and other large-scale painting and sculpture. Many of their sculptors worked by creating 1/12 scale models, then welders or metalsmiths would build the full-sized piece based on the model.

Most prolific artist have other people do a large body of their work, of course. (except Thomas Kincaid who is know to employ faeries, and pays them in fruit loops)

In reality is most art simply a contracted job especially if the artist is pigeonholed into a style.

So...are the craftsmen in this case crossing over into the realm of artists? Or is their work simply another contracted job? (A Craftsman producing work for an artist, which itself becomes art when viewed as the Artist intended?)

Dale Chihuly is brilliant...the neon in ice pieces were fantastic but the glass pieces above the viewer are incredible. (its like being a tropical fish)

When I was a young teen, my mom signed up for something called the 'Craft of the Month Club.' Each month, a different package would come in the mail, which included all the necessary raw materials - even the glue (but not the scissors) and a sheet of instructions, and if you followed the directions exactly, it would end up looking just like the cover photo. My mom was too busy to actually do these crafts, so they were often handed to me. I guess they were an extension of the plastic model cars I would build at the time - follow the directions, and if you don't mess up, the results are good enough to display on a shelf. Although my results matched the cover photo, there is no way that I would have then called myself an artist.

I tend to think of crafts as being a continuation of this. You may be highly skilled in the individual techniques and methods that comprise the skill set for your respective craft area, but it is what you do with those skills that determines whether you are an artist or not.

If you are trying to match your work to capture the look of some photo in some book or magazine, or to be a sample representative of what you think the public will buy or accept, then I would consider you to be a craftsman. But if you veer off into some new direction - perhaps by using new materials, or using your skills to capture a vision that only exists within your head -- then you are more likely to be a true artist.

Someone who is highly skilled with wood might be able to take a load of wood, and be able to make a beautiful replica of a Shaker cabinet. I would consider that person to be a craftsman. But if the same person had a vision, and was able to design a new piece of furniture in a totally new style - then that person has crossed that line to becoming an artist.

The persons who first designed the furniture, tapestries, and other items of the 'Arts and Crafts Movement' - who originated the whole concept and worked to fulfill their vision - those people were artists. And many of these artists influenced each other, and made their own work that may have been similar to what existed already, but their vision and skill took the work to new directions. At some point though, others stepped in, and simply tried to replicate what already exists - and those people I will call craftsmen.

There are highly skilled musicians, who are able to replicate the sounds of multiple styles of music, but if all they do is play the top hits in a weekly bar gig, then they are craftsmen. But if you try to write your own compositions, or try to merge two different musical techniques to create a new style - then you are closer to being an artist.

It is not necessary to be a craftsman to create artwork, but it sure helps to have such skills, so you will have the tools to be able to articulate and fulfill the vision you have.

Someone who paints 'paint by number kits' is likely not an artist. I saw one exhibit though, where the artist had constructed a doghouse entirely out of PBNs, which I thought was pure genius. Most people would say 'Oh, that isn't art -- even I could have done that.' But the point is that they did not think about doing this - it was the artist who did.

Vern, really interesting thoughts...As I read your thoughts then it's more :the idea" going into the work, than the execution, or how the piece is reguarded by viewers?

Interesting seperation of Crafts from something to keep people busy, to making something functional.

I'm stuggling with the funcionality aspect of it...just now I'm leaning toward something which is functional seeming like a craft or product of a craftsman...and something purley ornamentl being more art. (just this minute)

Betty Bleu, fantastic thought...intent indeed. It's seldom that a crafted piece becomes art (or thought of as such) but it does happen...Usually when the method it was made in becomes arcane. (Damascus metals for example)

There is something noble about a piece that is simply made for the joy of it's existance and not for function (This was made mirth of in the early 20th c by the Dadists, especially with things like Fur lined tea cups)

Tea pots seem to be the vehicle that walk this tightrope most often...they are so often taken to the furthest possible distance from being funtional.

It's seldom that a person deemed craftsman has higher status than an artist however food and drink are usually reffered to more as a craft.

Everyone here is making me think too much! I hate when that happens...

I used to teach craft classes for the city of Fresno. Initially I had a hard time with the adult classes, but no problem with the kids classes. Then I realized the problem was me. As an artist I see a project and want to make it with my own spin on it. But the ladies in my class actually wanted very specific instructions. As in: "Take a 2'wide piece of red satin ribbon, fold it in half..." The kids on the other hand still all were in touch with their inner artist. You could show some completed things, give a step-by-step of how you did them, put out the supplies and then they were away! Creating like maniacs. I loved it! Since then any adult classes I have taught have had a lot of direction.

So I guess that makes my theory: "Artists just haven't grown up."
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