Reports, more Reports and now a Virginia Tech Confirmation: Buzz Williams to Texas A&M

Half of the news cycle is behind the Hokies, Virginia Tech men's basketball coach set to depart.

The news labored for a few days, but there is a media consensus Texas A&M is set to announce Buzz Williams as its next basketball coach. Virginia Tech players and brass have been notified. And now the Hokies are left to replace their, arguably, most successful basketball coach.

Virginia Tech confirmed the reports in a release shortly thereafter.

"Coach Williams made a very positive impact on the culture of our basketball program at Virginia Tech," Babcock said via release. "We appreciate all that Buzz and his staff did for our students and our program. We wish Buzz, Corey and their family the very best as they return to their home state of Texas.

"Thanks to our talented student-athletes, Coach Williams and his staff, Virginia Tech is now one of the most attractive jobs in the nation's top basketball conference, the ACC," Babcock continued. "I'm extremely confident that we'll be able to identify and hire a new head coach who can further build on the success our men's basketball program has achieved in recent years. Until we have our new head coach in place, we will have no further comment on our search process."

Williams makes $3 million annually at Virginia Tech while Kennedy made $2.45 million at A&M. The Aggies, who pay Fisher $7.5 million annually, are expected to boost Williams' annual pay to at least $3.5 million.

Sources confirm reports that are out there: Buzz Williams meeting this morning with team and administration. Believed to be delivering the news he's leaving the #Hokies to take the Texas A&M job.— Mike Barber (@RTD_MikeBarber) April 3, 2019

Sources: Texas A&M is expected to hold a Thursday Press Conference to introduce Virginia Tech's Buzz Williams as its next head basketball coach. Williams is tentatively scheduled to meet with the Aggies' players on Wednesday night.— Jon Rothstein (@JonRothstein) April 3, 2019

Sources: Buzz Williams has officially told his team at Virginia Tech that he is headed to Texas A&M as the Aggies' next head basketball coach.— Jon Rothstein (@JonRothstein) April 3, 2019

Buzz Williams is a hell of a coach. Went to NCAA tourney 5 of 6 seasons at Marquette and has done what no coach has done at Virginia Tech — been successful. Buzz took Hokies to 3 straight NCAA tourneys. But has left 2 spots for lateral jobs. We'll see how long he stays at A&M.— Jeff Goodman (@GoodmanHoops) April 3, 2019

Buzz Williams delivering the bombshell news to his Virginia Tech players as we speak. He is off to Texas A&M. Worst-kept secret in college hoops for months now.— Jeff Goodman (@GoodmanHoops) April 3, 2019

The Buzz Williams saga is over. Headed from Virginia Tech to Texas A&M. It's almost as if there's a shelf life with Buzz at each spot. https://t.co/7RcKcJsvTl— Jeff Goodman (@GoodmanHoops) April 3, 2019

Source confirms @JonRothstein's report: Texas A&M is planning to introduce Buzz Williams as its next coach on Thursday. I'm told the players have been notified and the target is a 4 p.m. CT presser. https://t.co/AICKHACCYC— Matt Norlander (@MattNorlander) April 3, 2019

Multiple sources have told CBS Sports that Texas A&M, with the help of boosters, is prepared to pay Williams more money -- easily north of $3 million annually -- than it's ever paid a basketball coach in its history.

Coaches come and go and I'm okay with that. What I'm not okay with are the reports saying that this has been in the works all year long. I can only hope that Whit knew this all along and is ready to sign a new coach ASAP.

People. People! Do NOT allow this to take away any energy in rooting against loluva. aTm did their thing, and are now off in the distance. Loluva is here to stay! Do not waste energy that can be put towards them!!!!!

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Sources: Seton Hall's Kevin Willard is expected to be a primary target to replace Buzz Williams at Virginia Tech. Hokies' AD Whit Babcock has been prepared for this departure and has had a list of potential candidates for weeks. #shbb— Jon Rothstein (@JonRothstein) April 3, 2019

Willard wouldn't be a sexy hire, but I think his resume isn't nearly as bad as people here are making it.

He rebuilt Seton Hall and has taken them to the NCAA tournament the last 4 seasons. Seton Hall has only ever made the NCAA tourney 13 times, and two guys have 10 appearances combined (PJ Carlesimo also had 4 straight appearances, with 6 overall).

He's a good coach and despite the Big East being down this year, it's been an extremely competitive conference during his tenure.

Willard's name was never in the FBI reports. One of his players (Isaiah Whitehead) and an assistant coach (Tiny Morton) who coached said player in high school were the ones implicated. All indications were that Morton was acting on his own.

If people want to call Willard shady because he hired a guy to get a recruit, then boy, college basketball isn't the sport for you.

I wouldn't say he's the only coach doing it because that's far from true there are tons cheating, but to say the assistant coach did it on his own behalf doesn't make any sense to me, what would the assistant gain from paying a player to come to Seton Hall , if you ask me he's goin down the Patino train he's just smarter at covering his tracks

Isaiah Whitehead, at the time a freshman at Seton Hall, received $26,136 according to the documents. The "Pina" document says Whitehead received $37,657 and was "setting up payment plan." Whitehead signed with ASM but later left the agency for Roc Nation.

Morton, who came aboard Kevin Willard's coaching staff as part of a "package deal" with Whitehead, spent the 2014-15 season in South Orange before returning to his roots as the coach at talent-rich Lincoln High School in Brooklyn (Whitehead's alma mater). During his time on campus, Morton was a divisive figure who contributed to the locker-room tension that imploded the team. The question now, though, is why Morton is listed as receiving $9,500 from the agency at the center of the FBI's investigation - Andy Miller's ASM Sports - and more importantly when he may have received such a payment.

As reported by the New York Post, Morton's relationship with Miller dated back years before his time at Seton Hall. But if he accepted such payment while on the university's payroll it would be an infraction of NCAA rules - unless Morton could prove it was for prior services rendered.

Moreover, if there is evidence that Morton connected Whitehead with ASM while the two were at Seton Hall together, that's a major infraction of NCAA rules.

So, in summary - In Whitehead's case, the payment he allegedly took had nothing to do with recruiting him to Seton Hall, since he was already a freshman when payments occurred. It had more to do with getting in the good graces of a potential pro to hopefully sign him once he left school. And to answer your question, why would the assistant take a payment? Simple. It's to steer a player that he had influence over towards the agent in question.

When you look at the facts of Seton Hall's involvement in this case, there's nothing at all that ties Willard to this investigation. At worst, Willard hired a character that was known to be somewhat shady in order to land a talented recruit. But as far as paying players? There's no evidence that Willard even had knowledge of the payments.

People keep bringing up the FBI investigation as a reason not to hire Willard, and it shows they haven't researched the case.

He's the anti- Seth Greenberg.. Willard gets his bubble teams INTO the dance by not losing to garbage conference teams down the stretch. I'll take it. The NCAA tourney IS college basketball, and in the ACC a competent team gets you in most years. Greenberg couldn't figure this out.

I think we have the potential to get a decent hire - we're positioned to compete in the top half of the ACC, we have a lot of support from fans, students, good recruiting class coming in (as long as it doesn't change) - and just came off of our 3rd straight big dance appearance, and a wonderful AD to work for.

You gotta think we're one of the more attractive options out there for coaches who may be available.

I'd consider it settling because of the baggage that he brings due to the corruption scandal that SH is implicated in. If it weren't for that (and his unwavering support of Pitino in that scandal), I wouldn't consider it settling.

From what I've heard if we end up with Willard that is definitely settling, not saying he couldn't be a good coach or isn't a good coach, but anytime a coach is linked to a cheating scandal how are we to know how good he really is?

If we're going to settle, I'd rather go after a guy like Wes Miller at UNCG. D1 playing experience, consistent success, and an incredibly high ceiling. Might as well get a young guy that's gonna bring a ton of energy and has potential to be great than settle for Willard.

Literally nothing has changed from the initial rumors, the fact that we've chosen to stew in the each new drip of news for a week doesn't change the facts. This was never going to be his forever job. Flipping out because of one of many rumors, which you immediately say you can't confirm, is a bad look. Wish him luck, and let's move on.

This has been in the works for about a year. 2 Buzz staffers went before him to start recruiting and figure out the "lay of the land".
It just feels dirty. I appreciate what he did for VT but if he has been setting this up for HIMSELF, then every video, post game interview.....etc has been a prop along the way.

Don't take it so personally. I spent (over) a year planning and networking to make a major career move (MBA) while still working at my previous job. It doesn't mean that I don't care about the company/people I used to work with and it didn't mean that I was focused only on MYSELF; I felt it was time to leave, but I had to make sure I was making the right career move. Yea, I took on projects that made me more attractive to B-schools, but it wasn't like I did it to the company's detriment (quite the opposite in fact).

Same thing with Buzz; he didn't hurt our program, he brought it to new heights, then he did what's best for him. In the end, it was pretty good for us. I'm sad it's over, but I'm happy it happened, and I have no ill-will against Buzz.

WADR, the company you left didn't rely on you personally to staff it from top to bottom. The company you left didn't solicit 7 figure donations to keep you around. The company you left doesn't turn over it's entire staff every 4 years. The company you left likely didn't have a top 5 competitor 180 miles up the road and 2 all time top competitors 200 miles south of it. When you left, your company had to replace a middle or upper manager. Those are not as rare as elite basketball coaches in a cut throat, dirty game. And I say that WADR, seriously.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

From a business perspective I can't agree more. This, however, is a discussion that crosses with college athletics, and there is a *TON* of emotion that comes with it. I think there is room for most to accept that this was a business decision AND be bitter about the move.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

I get what your saying; Buzz's job is 'higher stakes' than mine was, and I was far more replaceable in my previous role than Buzz at VT. I think my analogy holds true regardless. Buzz gave it his all before leaving, and improved the program. He (presumably) communicated his intentions to Whit, and it seems like Whit got a head start on finding a new coach.

I just don't understand what more the fanbase wants out of him? Would fans be happier if there weren't any leaks? Maybe, but my understanding is that's an issue with aTm. Do fans want Buzz to spend more time here? Maybe, but I don't think it's going to be any easier if he leaves after 6, 7, 8 years instead of 5. Did fans want Buzz to announce his new job before the tournament? I don't know if that would've made it any easier.

Buzz gave us everything. It was a mutually beneficial relationship. It has come to an end. We're both in a better spot because of it.

FWIW, Issac Chew was assistant to Billy Kennedy at Murray State for several years, so it's not inconceivable he'd want to work for him again at A&M, maybe thinking he would be the heir apparent when Kennedy retired.

Reynolds got a promotion to become a coach again after being Buzz's Director of Ops.

I mean, this basically means he signed a class knowing he was actively courting Texas A&M with intention to move there. Then he went through an entire season of recruiting another class knowing he was negotiating with Texas A&M. And this was while we were in the middle of a season with a Top 15 program that had aspirations for actual greatness. And he was already one foot out the door negotiating with another school about the next season.

This is so against everything he sells publicly that... man, that's bothersome.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Buzz Williams just gave VT a season for the ages despite the program taking multiple kicks to the balls. I think he was all in here this past season.

What do we expect people to do when there is a potential career move on the horizon?

What other way could Buzz have handled this situation? Did you want him to not recruit at all? Should he not have talked/negotiated with aTm? Where would that have left him and his career? The guy is getting a bump in pay and gets to move home. Good for him!

I can't believe that Buzz was looking at this job for an entire season. Did the guy coaching A&M know back in October that he was going to get shit canned at the end of this season?
I don't think it works that way.

Can't get behind this at all. Hard for me to think his personality is some WWE performance. I think he's a genuine guy and really cares about the kids he coaches. He's leaving to be closer to family and I think he's handled this situation about as professionally as possible.

If the rumors are true and aTm wanted him last year, wouldn't it back up the idea that he didn't want to bail on his seniors because of how highly he holds these connections?

This.
When you just hear a quote once on TV it seems off the cuff and geniune. When you hear the same thing in booster events, radio & tv is seems prepared and contrived.

Many people act like Buzz cares about his players more than a vast majority of coaches. Almost every coach wants to have a positive impact on their player's lives as a basketball player and as a person. I agree that some are better than others, but many players are devoted to their college coach in a father figure manner.

As everyone should know, coaches get contacted ALL THE TIME. We don't know if Buzz was negotiating for a year, or if A&M have been after him for a year. Could be Buzz just said, 'talk to me later in the season." Could be he said, "I got at least 1 more year in me at VT so lets talk after the year. " As an employee for any company understanding your options is not only personally smart but should be expected by your current employer.

Even he he was discussing with them, he got the job he was hired to do done. He shaped and taught young minds as people and athletes to a level that I think sets a new gold standard at VT. And affect real change to the program that not only course corrected but sent us to a high stratosphere than we have been in decades. Decades.

In the end, Buzz used us and spit us out the second he could leverage us for something better.

Ridiculous. It's his life and career. He gets to decide his own destiny. In the end he left VT a better place than when he found it. That should be everyone's goal when they accept a job no matter how long they are in it. Not just coaches, everyone.

No, but see, this affects ME way more than it affects him and his family, so it's totally reasonable for ME to freak out about it, and cast poorly sourced aspersions!

But this seems like the right take. "In the works" or "talking" could mean any number of things (see above). No one has said anything substantive on the record. Until I hear that he was sitting in his house, cackling about how he was gonna fuck VT over (in the middle of our best season ever), it seems like he did a lot for us, we did a lot for him, and now we're moving in different directions. That's how employment works. God speed Buzz, let's go Hokies.

Can't find the article but prior to coming to VT there was a story talking about his decision to come to VT. Because the question was why would he come to a bad bbal program from a good one. He had done some plotting on the conference, strength of the football program, and recruiting area. I remember thinking he's calculated. And probably playing to a bigger stage. Coupled with his website, social media presence, #get better, and public persona it was pretty clear he's shooting for the stars. In a lot of ways we were lucky yo have him. I don't think he gave 2 shits about VT as a school but he built a good program. And of course he's leaving it a bit gutted. But in the end he provided a stepping stone for us (look at our targrt list) and in some ways a better one then he got. ATM isn't some monster bball school. Maybe that makes it hurt more or maybe he is looking to go home. I think Buzz probably does a lot of what he does for personal advancement but things like Buzz's Bunch and the impact on his player are awesome regardless. Net net I think he used us and we used him. In fact I'd argue we came out on top in the long run.

His social media was always bullshit cliche's and motivational quotes. Good basketball coach, glad we had him, but that other bullshit is just that- bullshit. He is a gym rat that wants to win, and needs players and AAU contacts to do so. He's no different than most big time coaches in that regard. The family, culture wall, quote t shirts are all bullshit.

You are assuming a fourth hand-rumor of "negotiations" has been going on a for a year. Maybe it was aTm sending him weekly emails and him not responding. Or taking a year to discuss with his wife/family about it. Doesn't mean they went back and forth every day for 365. aTm has cash, threw a number out, and probably very little else was negotiated. It took Buzz time to make the decision.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

The rumors of this having gone on that long were circulating last week, but I tried to brush it off as internal rumoring. But to see it cited by some national pundits who actually would know about it? That's different.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Again, you are making the assumption that they have been going back and forth. Maybe aTm said, 52 weeks ago, I'll give you $6.5mill to come here in 1 year. That would constitute "in the works..." for a while.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Buzz may have had it in his head or even told whit a year ago he was looking to move back closer to home, but I have a very hard time believing he was negotiating in season, especially with all the success we had this season. Come on guys are we mad Buzz is gone sure but he brought us some really good times at VT and we're about to make a hire to capitalize off of what he built. Let's not beat the man down

I don't know about thin skinned. More like disappointed in Buzz after he sold us on his #getbetter brand. Talking to another school while under contract with VT doesn't fit with the brand. People have a right to be pissed about his hypocrisy.

Been following these threads all week and I don't see any factual evidence that Buzz was scheming. A few rumors of "in the works" is pretty ambiguous. I feel you have to have already built the narrative that Buzz is slimy and his persona is a farce in order to really be mad about any of this.

Whoever we hire, they're going to be better than JJ was. That's better than when he took over. We were just in a sweet sixteen for the first time. The program is on a stronger footing than it was five years ago.

I appreciate the job he did, but he was paid millions of dollars to do it, so I pretty much think he should be thanking us, or at least it's an even split and a fair trade. I sure wouldn't be throwing him a going away party, though.

Lots of salt down here. He came here when he didn't need to, did a great job, and is moving on to a place that he thinks is better suited for himself and his family. Let's not turn into the Marquette fans who are still super mad about him leaving. You can look toward the future without all the negativity.

Can we not turn this into "oh yeah, well I never loved you anyway"? Buzz brought us to a basketball relevance we've never seen and did it in the right way. I don't care if this was a recent decision or he was planning on leaving the moment he got here. He turned a program beneath the dirt into a national contender. And helped produce great men in the process. Whether the new coach continues that progress, who knows. But those 5 years were fun and for that, I'm thankful.

We knew he was going to leave. We all knew that, this was never going to be his final spot. That part doesn't bother me at all.

What DOES bother me is the fact that this was supposedly going on behind the scenes behind Whit's back for a year. Last week Whit said he hadn't been contacted from either party about this, so.... yeah....

I knew he was going to leave us. I didn't think he would do it in one of the more sleazy ways.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

One of my recent managers got promoted to his job and left for an external offer 2 months later. The guy came in, reorganized us, even laid off 2 people, and then took another job down the street. He clearly has to know that he was leaving when he gave 2 people the notices. Why blow up the management structure when you aren't going to be around? Why not just be a caretaker and bail in 3 months? I dunno.

My point : Buzz doesn't have a monopoly on working one job while seriously considering being elsewhere. It happens everywhere.

It's been mentioned numerous times, but basketball is a different animal than any other team sports. These players primarily come to to play for the coach and the school is secondary. This is probably much more true in the case of Buzz where he is his own brand. If you recall we took two of Marquette's recruits that wanted to play for him.

I agree with the poster above. He recruited players to come play for him. He did his job and he did it well while he was in Blacksburg. If these rumors about already agreeing/knowing about the TAMU job prior to the season had more substantial legs, there is no way it would not have been leaked earlier in the year to the media.

Big difference in recruiting them to play for Buzz and recruiting them to play in Cassell. If his job was to recruit them to play in Cassell, then I don't know how you can say he was doing his job, assuming he knew he was leaving to A&M.

I think you're finding a grain of sand in this entire beach of information and holding on to that as a reason to be angry at Buzz.

Buzz and Whit are big boys. Whit saw the writing on the wall. He's prepared for this. Let's not all clutch our pearls and pretend this is any different than any other coach leaving for another job. It's always going to hurt on the side that is being left.

Buzz gave everything he had to this program. He is leaving us in an infinitely better position than he found us. The rest is just the cost of doing business. Let it go.

You're not frustrated with how this went down. You're frustrated with a half-substantiated and vague set of reports. "It's been in the works" != "He agreed a year ago, didn't tell Whit, and he hates puppies." You're assuming huge chunks of the story.

Agreed. And if Whit has known for a year, it's given him a chance to research, quietly, for a year. Watch guys on the job. Check out coaching ability during games. Discuss with other ADs and people little nuances and personalities. Not just post a job and have people come running. He's been able to basically select who he wanted and thought achievable.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

That's some pretty selective data points, or what statisticians would call use of "outliers", with a healthy dose of "recency bias".

While Buzz took us to a new height, and it was indeed "sweet", to use the coach before him as representative of the overall level of VT basketball is a bit misleading, as it doesn't accurately represent the program.

I mean, it depends on what you mean by stature? Dell Curry was great, and having someone like that's jersey hanging from the rafters definitely improves the stature of a program. Being in the ACC improves the stature of a program.

I think the state of the program at the time is a more interesting thing to talk about, and it was a dumpster fire. You're saying that we shouldn't have an recency bias when we discuss this, but we're talking about recruiting 18 year old kids. The recent past matters a LOT, and by that metric, the state of the program when he took over was not good. Buzz both raised the stature and improved the state.

I think you've proposed a good way to look at it. He no doubt improved both, but did a lot more for the state than the stature.

The stature is going to depend a lot more on who the next coach is, though Whit certainly has better sales data in his pocket than when Buzz bought into the program. Buzz bought the dip, and sold just before we were likely going to take a step back. The next guy is going to have to buy the potential, and hopefully stick around for longer.

I gave you nine years of records (if you include Buzz'z records other than this year). Sure there was a smaller peak with Seth, but it was nine years ago. My conclusion, which I don't think you know what it is, is that Buzz was the best guy we could've hired to dig us out of a pit and he did more for this program than anyone could've reasonably asked of him. We owe him nothing but gratitude and thanks for his time here. He owes us nothing. He didn't have to come here. He shocked a lot of people by coming here in the first place. He could've moved up from Marquette but he saw something here .

I can think of 10 other ACC schools who wish they had the season we did this year. All of whom were laughing at us when Buzz came to town. That kinda of turnaround, especially in the time frame Buzz did it in is not guaranteed.

Keep being salty about it. Keep trying to snark at facts thrown at you and twisting words just to validate whatever anger you have at Buzz for leaving. But damn I am so happy that we had him here and I don't think that there was anyone else Whit could have hired that would've done any better than Buzz did.

We could've easily been stuck in mediocrity for years after JJ. We could've been what Wake, GT, BC, Clemson currently are. And you know what, that would've been fine because at least it wasn't dead last and hopeless. But no, we got better, we competed with the top guys in this conference, and we made a sweet freakin' sixteen in five mother freakin' years time. That is awesome!

I am sad that Buzz is leaving us but I understand. He left the ship so much better than he found it. That's my conclusion.

So what is the right context to realistically evaluate Buzz in your opinion?

EDIT: This all started with you seeming to think we haven't "arrived" yet. So what does that mean to you? What in VT basketball's history indicates to you that this team can realistically be expected to be more than what they were at the end of Buzz's time here.

What does "arrive" mean. Elite 8? Final 4? ACC Champs? (Reg. Season or Tourney?) How many 20+ win seasons in a row do you need before you arrive? Does or SOS have to be above a certain number for that 20+ win season to count? I really have no idea how you define the arrival of the VT basketball program.

I'm done debating with you if you're just going to keep making vague references.

You asked me what data did I want you to include. I gave enough years to prove my point.

Enlarging the context is really all that was necessary. We can do the entire history of VT basketball if we want, and that's probably the most accurate, overall, but if we include all of ACC years I think it tells a fairly accurate story of where VT basketball is today.

Buzz gave everything he had to this program. He is leaving us in an infinitely better position than he found us.

To which you said, "no he didn't".

That is merely your opinion. Nothing more. You provided no substantive data to validate your opinion. No facts, historical or otherwise, to prove anything that you say is more than an opinion. Nothing of merit at all.

Then you call out others who use actual real data that are historical facts as outliers simply because it actually proves the point being made. The point, which you find impossible to actually read correctly, is that the program was bad when he got here and better when he left.

read it again:

Buzz gave everything he had to this program. He is leaving us in an infinitely better position than he found us.

bad when he arrived, better when he left.

This is factually accurate. your opinion is fine to have, but until you actually bring some meat to the table to support your arbitrary claims and not the incessant droning about how your opinion is the only right one, then you bring zero value to the conversation. Literally every post you have made on this and every thread made about Buzz leaving has been the same. All noise, no substance.

You want to prove me and everyone else wrong then show us. We're waiting.

As far as my comments having value, who appointed you to the job of deciding that?

My context isn't the two years before Buzz arrived, but the bigger context of VT basketball, which I believe the better context in which to assess the Buzz contribution. VT basketball has ALWAYS been a roller coaster ride, with significant lows and significant highs. We've had success before, and are a good platform for a good coach. We have sporadically made it to post season tournaments before, and even occasionally had success.

Here are a few facts to back up my assessment (many of which I've mentioned before, but never in one place):

-- Buzz isn't even on the list of VT basketball coaches with the top 10 highest winning percentages. By the same token, Johnson isn't the worst, but you'd have to look back to the 1930's to find someone with a lower percentage than Johnson.

-- This wasn't the first time VT was in the Sweet Sixteen. VT has also been in the Elite Eight, though it's been since the 1960's. We have made the tournament and post season for a few years every 10 years. Not enough to be really relevant in basketball, but enough to keep it interesting for us fans.

-- Greenberg made it to the second round of the tournament, which is only one level below Buzz. We also beat UNC, UVa, and Duke during his tenure, sometimes when they were ranked #1.

-- We're at team with a history, some resources and infrastructure, and a lot of fan support.

-- We may have made the Sweet Sixteen, but we haven't been relevant at that level long enough for the UNCs, Dukes, and UVas to fear us as a constant threat to their dominance.

I think Buzz did an outstanding job, and I thoroughly enjoyed the ride, but I'm unwilling to accept the "VT basketball was a perennial cellar-dwellar" narrative. it's simply not the case, and I can provide the data on this if I need to. I merely suggested that the context be broadened.

For the record, I do believe this was the best team VT has fielded since I've been watching. They were the real deal, and not just depending on one or two superstar players.

If we have continued basketball success, we'll have forgotten all about him in 5-10 years, just as we've forgotten Greenberg. If we fall to the bottom of the ACC, then he won't have had any lasting impact at all. Either way, our future rests with Whit's ability to attract another excellent recruiter/coach. The Sweet Sixteen doesn't cement us in elite territory, it just makes Whit's sales job easier to potential coaches, donors, and fans.

For the love of..... Read dude. I said it's fine to have your opinion but you saying your opinion is right and others are wrong, when said others are proving theirs with actual facts and data means yours has no value in the debate being made. I did not say your comments don't have value as an opinion to have.

Buzz gave everything he had to this program. He is leaving us in an infinitely better position than he found us.

bad when he arrived, better when he left.

Yes, you listed data. None of it means Skipper is wrong. None of it means he cherry picked data. None of this makes your opinion that "no he didn't" correct.

let's go through your list of data:

-- Buzz isn't even on the list of VT basketball coaches with the top 10 highest winning percentages. By the same token, Johnson isn't the worst, but you'd have to look back to the 1930's to find someone with a lower percentage than Johnson.

-- This wasn't the first time VT was in the Sweet Sixteen. VT has also been in the Elite Eight, though it's been since the 1960's. We have made the tournament and post season for a few years every 10 years. Not enough to be really relevant in basketball, but enough to keep it interesting for us fans.

-- Greenberg made it to the second round of the tournament, which is only one level below Buzz. We also beat UNC, UVa, and Duke during his tenure, sometimes when they were ranked #1.

-- We're at team with a history, some resources and infrastructure, and a lot of fan support.

-- We may have made the Sweet Sixteen, but we haven't been relevant at that level long enough for the UNCs, Dukes, and UVas to fear us as a constant threat to their dominance.
Has anyone argued this? How does this disprove what Skipper said and your opinion is right?

Has anyone argued against any this? How does this disprove what Skipper said and your opinion is right?

This is why I ask you to read more carefully. You telling people they are wrong even when they provide factual evidence to support their claims reads as obtuse. Then you make arguments that no one is even talking about:

I'm unwilling to accept the "VT basketball was a perennial cellar-dwellar" narrative.

Who said this? Skipper didn't. I didn't. So all of the data you listed to support this claim is for something no one is even talking about. Why?

you're referring to a comment not even in the debate of this sub-thread...... You are mixing the conversation to try and suit your needs.

You want to throw your data down there after his comment, have at it.

However, this sub-thread started with him stating Buzz left the program better than he found it, to which you clearly said: "no he didn't". Hard facts were shown to prove Skipper correct, so rather than accept that you were wrong and move on you want to inject a comment he made down in another sub-thread and prove you are right about something.

Caveat: I was going to post this earlier, decided not to, and now I feel obliged after reading through this thread and seeing the same trend.

You gotta just walk away Fernley; it's absolutely impossible with him man. I've been there multiple times. It's a endless cycle of arrogance, ignorance, misery, frustration, verbiage mockery and condescension with the contextual goal posts shifting all the time and all rationale thrown out of the window in a vicious attempt to have to always "be right". It's a shame you can't have a reasonable debate/argument without him dying on every single hill.

I'm sure this comment will receive it's necessary downvotes and that's okay, but I hate arrogance and when quite a few members are told their opinion is wrong and get snarky, matter-of-fact replies to every comment. Thankfully, I feel like ~97% of TKP can have a reasonable debate and enjoy the light-hearted banter. End rant.

Dude, I get it. I've been there with him too. I have been keeping away from his posts for a long time now but it just keeps getting worse and this stuff with Buzz has been a boon for his particular type of bendering, which irked me.

It's a endless cycle of arrogance, ignorance, misery, frustration, verbiage mockery and condescension with the contextual goal posts shifting all the time and all rationale thrown out of the window in a vicious attempt to have to always "be right".

I hate arrogance and when quite a few members are told their opinion is wrong and get snarky, matter-of-fact replies to every comment.

Absolutely on the money.

This has gotten to the level of hokieknight IMO. It's a shame that reason and thoughtfulness has to walk away from fighting back against trolls like this. It should be the other way around.

I'm not sure the 1976-1987 Independent/Metro teams are the proper measuring stick to the 2014-2019 ACC teams. I certainly don't think anything pre 1980 matters much at all.

This wasn't the first time VT was in the Sweet Sixteen. VT has also been in the Elite Eight, though it's been since the 1960's. We have made the tournament and post season for a few years every 10 years. Not enough to be really relevant in basketball, but enough to keep it interesting for us fans.

VT had never made three consecutive tourneys until this year and it was the first Sweet 16 made since the tournament expanded to 64+ teams. Again, with that Elite 8 team, you're comparing a 2014-2017 ACC program to a 1960's independent.

Greenberg made it to the second round of the tournament, which is only one level below Buzz. We also beat UNC, UVa, and Duke during his tenure, sometimes when they were ranked #1.

So Buzz made it to consecutive tourneys (which Seth never did) and he went farther. Not sure what your point is here? We also beat Duke, UNC, and UVA. UVA also wasn't what it is now during most of Seth's tenure.

We're at team with a history, some resources and infrastructure, and a lot of fan support

This is an opinion more than fact but ok. I would also remind you that we have always been and still are a football school. Basketball is a second fiddle and it's probably not that close.

We may have made the Sweet Sixteen, but we haven't been relevant at that level long enough for the UNCs, Dukes, and UVas to fear us as a constant threat to their dominance.

Nothing your provided indicates that VT has ever been that or should realistically expect to be that.

I agree that the future rests on Whit's ability to make the right hire AND on that hire's ability to live up to what he sells to us. I agree with Sweet Sixteen does not cement us in elite territory but VT basketball has never been a program that has been classified as elite and it still has a long way to go to get there, if it ever does.

No, I didn't read any of it. Quite frankly, this is a silly back and forth that I probably should have closed a while ago. I just happened to notice that sentence while scrolling the page, and commented on the irony.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

I agree that the future rests on Whit's ability to make the right hire AND on that hire's ability to live up to what he sells to us. I agree with Sweet Sixteen does not cement us in elite territory but VT basketball has never been a program that has been classified as elite and it still has a long way to go to get there, if it ever does.

This is very similar to what I'm saying.

So I think we're in agreement, all around. The only point I was trying to make is that the measuring the stature of the program by the Johnson years exaggerates the actual effect.

I'd go one step further, and say we're in the top basketball league, with a great AD and a lot of support, looking for a great coach who can hopefully get us back to the top of the ACC.

The one argument I think we can safely make is that maybe our recent success will help us attract that next coach. But make no mistake, they'll be doing the heavy lifting to get us back to the Sweet Sixteen.

Edit: I took out the "cherry picking" reference. Let's just say I think a bigger context is more useful.

I'll say this... I'm happy with what Buzz did for the program, and we are in a MUCH better spot now than we were when he got here. Of course, had Weaver not fucked the goat with the previous coaching turnover, maybe we wouldn't have needed it, but that's neither here nor there.

VT basketball was a dumpster fire before Buzz, and he made us legitimately relevant to the point where we can actually go out and swing big for a coach and it won't be met with 'bless your heart'. That in and of itself deserves our respect.

My only frustration here is how the exit went down, not that it went down. I don't think its unfair to criticize the process, even if we knew the end result was inevitable.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Alum, by no means am I debating your POV, the only thing I would suggest to take into consideration, is that Buzz is his own agent. An open position is typically offered to a coach's agent, and the agent is the one who holds on to that golden ticket, and the agent is the "buffer" between the coach and the courting party. However, with Buzz, he had no buffer, and I get it, that makes him look shady and hypocritical. But, personally, I don't think any less of Buzz, because I truly feel his effort was 100% all the way till the last buzzer. Does it suck? Sure, but I don't think any of us can question his desire to put VT in the best position to succeed at ALL times. And because of that, I have no frustration or ill will towards the man. Just something to think about, a rational level-headed response, rather than an attack is what I hope you get from all of this.

How would you have wanted it to go then? No news leaks until after our run, followed by a quick exit?

That's just not the way the world works today. It does truly suck that we had this hanging over us last week but I don't see how it could've been handled better by Buzz and Whit.

The whole "been in the works for a year thing" is extremely vague and could mean anything. All we know is that aTm told him as early as last year that the job was on the table. That's it. Nobody knows more than that.

What was the process, Alum? Did Buzz come out with rumors? Did he hint that he would be leaving? Did someone confirm a phone call or flight to College Station months ago?

No, none of that happened. All that happened was reporters typing on Twitter and speculation. Buzz has not said a single word about this other than the fact that he wasn't going to address jobs to the public or his players.

For everyone butthurt today, you must have been expecting another Frank Beamer tenure.

If you don't mind me offering my $0.02. I think this reflects that the program had peaked under Seth and was beginning to slightly recede or stagnate. At that point of time, the right call was to let him go, and I have always said it was the right time. We just bungled the hell out of in both timing and just how petty we were over it. The timing made it so it would be impossible to get anyone competent and the pettiness torched our reputation in the basketball community to the point where James Johnson probably was the best we could have done.

Whit and Buzz deserve a lot of credit for repairing this. But without that bungling in 2012, we wouldn't have needed Buzz to dig us out to begin with. Now, we're back to where we should have been all along, if not a little better off, which also is a credit to Buzz.

I do think we had a decent foundation that Buzz was able to build off looking back. The JJ years were bad, but it didn't completely destroy us, and with a legitimate coach in the fold, we snapped back to our previous form pretty quick. But it did take the perfect coach to get there. In the end, we are where we are now because of the work that Buzz, Whit, and Seth did over the past 20 years, and to only say Buzz is our savior is a little much.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Woosh... point is Buzz was given everything he wanted - every tool to win. Johnson- who I am not a fan of, BTW- was not. It's not an apples to apples comparison. If the next guy makes 3 mil, Whit allows him 50 staff, gives him what he wants, and we can't compete? Then yeah, Buzz is the almighty

Fair point, but Buzz also commanded that level of support while Johnson was in a position to prove he belonged in that position. I'm not trying to compare the two but it is accurate to say Buzz dramatically improved the program and changed it for the better.

Yes he did. Buzz was as advertised- a good coach, a sweet 16 type coach based on what he did at marquette. Won't take that away from him. The idea that he is the only guy that can win at VT though is overstated and will be proven wrong if Whit is still serious about basketball with this new hire.

I hope Buzz's tenure set the precedent that VT basketball needs and deserves a big boy coach with a big boy salary and a large support staff to continue moving forward. If we can capitalize on how we are right now, we'll be closer to winning a natty in basketball than any other sport.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

that's more on Whit though, not Buzz. Buzz did what we needed him to do. We all wish he would have stayed longer but he gone. Now it's Whit's job to find the right candidate to succeed from where we are now.

Absolutely. The good thing is, I have faith in Whit to get the guy none of the national 'experts' suspect, because he's proven capable of it multiple times. At this point, we just have to sit back and see who it is.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

This is a good point, I was making a joke. JJ shouldn't have been in that position, but/and he didn't have the support of the university or the athletic department. Luckily, I think there's a 0% chance that we return to that, regardless of who we hire.

Buzz took a job that nobody wanted when he didn't have to. He made this program relevant. He showed the country that you can win basketball games in Blacksburg.

This is complete fiction.

We had a hell of a ride with Buzz, and he took us from the floor in the ACC (where we shouldn't have been, anyway) to the Sweet Sixteen. I thoroughly enjoyed the ride (well, except everyone saying he was gone WHILE we were in Sweet Sixteen week.)

But as far as it being a "job nobody wanted", and "we didn't win games in Blacksburg", that takes it a bit too far, and is recency bias.

Being the perennial basement in the hardest basketball conference is not necessarily a desirable position for an up-and-coming coach. We out-kicked our coverage on Buzz and we all knew it.

This program has never seen sustained success like we have in the last few years. Buzz took VT basketball to a level nobody has seen yet. Cut up my words all you want but Buzz was better than we deserved and I'm so thankful we had him.

If you would've told me in March 2014 than in five years we would have been coming off our third tourney appearance and a sweet 16, I'd have laughed. This program has recovered from the Greenberg-Johnson fiasco that drove it off the side of the road and that's thanks all to Buzz.

We weren't the perennial basement in the ACC. We had two years under James Johnson, who should have NEVER been hired as VT's head coach.

Buzz was a great coach, and an inspired hire. But we're pretty much the same program, with one Sweet Sixteen appearance (not win). The program has been to both the Sweet Sixteen and the Elite Eight before. OK, it was a long time ago, but we were there.

The program already had a trajectory, and a history of winning the occasional game against UNC, Virginia, and Duke. Greenberg was able to do that. Buzz got VT basketball to exactly ONE level higher win than Seth Greenberg got. (And two additional NCAA appearances, where Greenberg just missed the cut as a bubble team.)

I've enjoyed the ride with Buzz. He did elevate the program, and this was perhaps the best group of players we've ever had. I just see no reason to pretend we never had prospects before. Our future completely depends on Whit's ability to parlay one Sweet Sixteen appearance into a coach who can get us back there.

I think Buzz corrected the basketball trajectory that was thrown off by JJ.

Under Stokes we were a bad team that... well, we were just bad. Very bad. We lost to an amateur travelling EA Sports exhibition team that we literally hired to lose to us my freshman year. We sucked.

Seth came in and found our pulse. Suddenly we were a team on the move. We went from bad to actually respectable. Under Seth we started knocking off ranked teams like it was a hobby and made postseason play a recurring theme for a program that really didn't know what it was like. We finally made the NCAA Tournament and won a game! Wohoo! But we could never quite get to that level again, despite trying. Then he pissed off Weaver and was shitcanned nearly a month after the season ended and we were left with a backdoor hire of a severely underqualified coach.

The bottom fell out under JJ. The team tanked badly to the point where we were a joke. 4 ACC wins in 2 seasons and he was let go.

Then comes Buzz, and almost immediately we hit the level we were under Seth. And then Buzz builds on it and raises us to the point where we made the tournament 3 years in a row with a Sweet 16 appearance.

Our program has been building steadily for 20 years now. The JJ years were the blip, and if Whit gets this next coaching hire right, all of this building and all of this momentum should help culminate with the successes of the next guy in here.

That's not to say that Buzz doesn't deserve a lot of thanks for what he did. He absolutely does for course correcting our program. He did it faster than many believed possible. But its also not correct to think that he didn't benefit at least a little from the work that was done before him, too.

Not sure why I replied to you on this... my thoughts got a little carried away.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Not much to find because it wasn't an 'official' game, much like the game we played against Liberty wasn't official this year. But yeah, things in the 2002-2003 range weren't so good for the team. The highlights of those seasons were beating an unranked middling UVa at home and then knocking off ranked UConn who didn't have Calhoun on the sidelines (I want to say he fell ill or broke his leg or something like that). Those teams were a cluster, but hey... it was our cluster, dammit.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Ahh yeah, that's it. I remember being at that game and thinking just how completely out of sorts UConn looked. That was just a dark time for that program. The players and coaches were really shook with the diagnosis, and you could tell.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

With that said, he did nothing to help us build for the future. We will be near bare bones next season. It's going to be a rough rebuild.

He will be forgotten 25 years from now, if he had stayed even a couple of years longer then he truly could've been someone special at Blacksburg. Maybe not Beamer levels, but definitely a legend in his own right.

I understand why he moved and his motives seem okay (although if he really was planning this for a year then that's pretty bad) but time will tell if this was just a flash in the pan or part of something bigger. My gut feeling is it'll be the former.

There is going to be a lot of playing time to go around. Maybe that won't be enough to keep some of the guys, but I'd imagine a competent coach would at least be able to use that to leverage some solid transfers.

Thats ridiculous to assume. As stated, our highest rated recruit is from Paul XI in Fairfax. Maybe he doesnt want to go to Texas? Maybe he wants to stay close to home for his family? Maybe the recruits will like the new coach?

Looking at flight tracking (And could be nothing) - Seems a few flights on nice private jets today to Blacksburg.
one from Westchester, NY and another from Erie PA. Could be nothing. Could be other planes coming in/out that block their tail number on the tracking sites.

Williams was no favorite of local media. He was habitually late for postgame press conferences, often ambling into the media room 40-45 minutes after games. He was one of the ACC's least accessible coaches for local beat writers, and his propensity for insulting the people who covered his program around the commonwealth – often on his weekly and postgame radio shows – should have been beneath a coach of his stature.

Not shocked at all. He made comments to Burnop & Laaser all the time about the media.

The thing about Buzz is that he's not unfriendly with media in general, I just don't think he had patience for what he perceived to be unfair questions from local media (most of the time I'd side with Buzz to be honest).

Agreed - to expand upon this, I don't think Buzz viewed dealing with the media as part of his job; I think he felt like the two 'stakeholders' he had to report to were the players and the administration; neither of which the media is a part of. Not saying that's right/wrong, but I believe that was Buzz's opinion.

I don't know about that. On the face this looks like more shitty whining from a reporter but I think you left out the qualifier to this which came in the sentence afterwards.

But to argue with the job he did in Blacksburg would be a fool's errand.

Yes, it is a fools errand. So was calling him out for the wait time with dumbass tweets about how an hour long pep talk isn't going to turn the season around and then subsequently getting that shoved down your throat as he proved you a fool.

reporters whining about having to wait less an hour to do their job gets zero respect from me, but overall Barber seems very positive about Buzz's time at VT.

I have been to booster events after games since the 90s.
Buzz was habitually slow to get up there. These are people giving directly to support basketball and he would be late arriving and repeat the same philosophy (verbatim) that had been on the radio.

Other coaches had understood that post game events with boosters (especially after wins) we're glad handing events.
To be honest, I feel like Fuente does this part of the job better. Yes I agree that Fuente could be much more open with the program, but on a personal level he is affable.

First, thanks for being such a great support to VT. truly an example for the rest of us.

Question though: Was the time the real issue or was it the personality once there?

If Buzz was nonchalant about time and wasted it doing who knows what that would be one thing. But it appeared to be that the time was spent on the team, which he is hired to push to higher levels. Levels that boosters give good money to see be achieved. If that's getting done and part of it is due to a philosophy that leading his team after games is as important as before then what's the problem?

I appreciate the candor about the difference between Buzz and Fuente though. Thanks for that.

Personality: I think I have already detailed and has been a bigger issue to me.
Additionally, I know that I will be a Hokie far longer than any of the current coaches. I do not think the coaches and I are friends because of access, I enjoy supporting Hokie student athletes. I take pride in their successes on and off the field of play.

Time: These are previously scheduled gatherings and should have been a priority to get there sooner. It would be one thing to be delayed (or even reschedule) an event due to a unique game (i.e. WVU debacle a couple seasons ago) where the team needed immediate focus. Buzz expects his players to schedule their time appropriately and this means doing things that are not fun, he could have done better. This would never have been a reason to let him go, it was an annoyance.

One more question regarding time. If he was notoriously arriving late to these and it was actually for a legit reason, then why not just schedule them to be an hour later than they normally are expected to be?

And I agree with the bold statement and wouldn't assume that. I give to the program and haven't stepped foot on the campus for years. Love for the team, players and school is all the motivation needed.

The timing is that the events are right after the game. You are not going to leave Cassell to wait in your car to just come back in in one hour.

It was not that big of a deal, he just was worse than other coaches before him. Every coach is going to have strong suits and weak points.

I can see how the reporters doing a job would be annoyed with this type of behavior. It is idyllic to think the VT basketball coach only works for the AD and his player's parents. The VT basketball coach must work with the AD, others in the athletic department, the players, the players parents, the local media, the national media, VT students, VT boosters & general fans.

The VT basketball coach will need the support of all of those people to maintain a high level of success.

I understand, but certainly these events are held in a room somewhere yeah? I mean do people need to go wait in their car or could something be planned during this time to allow people to mingle and have some light entertainment for an hour until Buzz is normally expected to arrive?

I agree that the coach has got to work with everyone you listed. That's the job. I get it. I just think, as you correctly stated, every coach has strong points and weaknesses. I just think there could be positive ways to mitigate this particular weakness, rather than having boosters get frustrated waiting roughly the same amount of time every game or being told they have to go wait in their car.

We all knew it was coming. Classy announcement by Whit. Thanks to Buzz for a fun and successful four years and best of luck to him. Whit wasn't lying about how this job just became one of the most attractive now in college basketball. Who would've thought that four years ago? We're going to continue to build and be successful. Go Hokies!

I dont really care that we've had weeks to mentally come to grips with this, it still stings. I also dont believe that we should be happy with the time we had with Buzz simply because we were a dumpster fire before he arrived and he helped turn it around. I'm grateful for what he's done for the program to get it to where it is, but there's a lot of work left to be done and inside the premier basketball conference in the game. His departure at this time just f-ing sucks for us and I hate it.

To your point - (I think) we are an attractive job. The cupboard may not be full for whoever gets here, but the Buzz/Whit combo showed that this program can be successful in the ACC and give the blue bloods fits. Now the pressure is on Whit to show that this wasn't a miracle 5 years, make the right hire, and keep momentum going.

I also dont believe that we should be happy with the time we had with Buzz simply because we were a dumpster fire before he arrived and he helped turn it around.

No disrespect, but this is the sole reason I'm happy. I don't think any of us thought Buzz was here to stay. He gave us everything he had, made us relevant, and set the foundation to build off of. That's about all you could ask for. Just my opinion.

No disrespect taken. I probably could have elaborated more but didn't. What I was driving at is that we should be a destination program, not a way point. Buzz brought us to being much closer to that destination program we want to be (we aren't there yet, and not many programs are), but then just decided to dump us in favor of (on paper) is a (relatively) small upgrade in pay, closer to home, and with some new bosses that have a very short turnaround time expectation on their investment.

I want to hear from Buzz what his rationale was. That's what's really making me upset about all of this is that we dont know and we're speculating. What the hell is it about the A&M job that make it the better option than staying in Blacksburg?

I gotcha, have a leg. To answer your question though, I think what made it a better option for him was that he's from Texas, his wife is a TA&M alum, he used to coach there, there's a hotbed of recruits down there, and he knows he can bring them back to prominence relatively quickly. Buzz is a builder. It's easy for us with our orange and maroon glasses to see why Tech is such an attractive job and wonder why anyone else would want to leave, but I can understand the factors why he would - especially going back to his home state. Also, to try to fully understand Buzz's thought process is impossible. He's one of the most eclectic thinkers I've ever seen. He may be clinically insane. Anyway, I'm rambling, but try to see it from his standpoint and be happy with what he did for us. Just because we weren't a destination program for him doesn't make us a destination program. We'll be fine now.

My favorite thing about this announcement is that bit about Buzz still funding two scholarship endowments here at Tech even though he's leaving. I've never heard of an outgoing basketball coach doing that to the school they're leaving.

I found TKP after two rails from TOTS then walking back to my apartment and re-watching the 2012 Sugar Bowl. I woke up the next day with this username.

I hardly think were in a position of pushing out one of our best returning players, as well as one of our programs top all time recruits, over what is a minor possession of pot charge, if we wanna play with the big dogs I'm sorry but these are things that are going to happen, I'm far less worried about a player with a minor ammount of pot than other situations.

I agree that getting caught with weed isn't that big a deal, but Clarke wasn't suspended the entire 2018-19 season because of smoking weed. If you're in that kind of status any small transgression can be amplified.

If Whit pulls off another home run here (Marshall), my hats off to him. If he settles for Willard (or Wojo, but perhaps less so), I'll just point out to the "In Whit We Trust" team that Buzz was just as much timing/circumstance at Marquette as it was brilliant work by Whit.

In Whit I trust, because the guy consistently hits home runs. Yes, the jury is still out on Fuente, but Whit is a good AD, not a fortune teller. We UNIVERSALLY thought Fuente was one of the better available coaches when he was hired. Some of us STILL think that.

One difference is that a GM is only in charge of one sport. He sort of has to get his one coach right.

If a coach doesn't work out in the long term, I suppose Whit just hires another coach. But ADs aren't fortune tellers. The best they can do is hire good candidates and hope they work out. If they always get duds, I can see how you'd criticize them for that.

Whit hit it out of the park with Williams. Let's hope it works out with Fuente. Whit has certainly earned the benefit of the doubt.

Point remains that a hire that's seen as a great hire at the time but doesn't work out can still be attributed as a failure by the individual who hires them.

I'm not anti-Whit, and I don't even like making this argument but it does feel like some people (not necessarily you) give Whit more credit than perhaps he deserves for Buzz. I'm not sure the percentage breakdown but Whit did certainly benefit from the Big East falling apart, the AD/President turning over at Marquette etc.

Anyways. I *very* much hope Fuente works out. I hope Whit hires a rock-star (personally, I'm holding out for Marshall), but whoever it is I hope they continue Buzz's momentum.

Whether it was random circumstances, or Whit being a deity of an AD, it was without question a top notch hire. To me it earns a level of trust either way until we gather more data points, and a data point is incoming in 3...2...1...

Yes it was a top notch hire, the point I'm trying to make is that those who expect another top notch hire may be disappointed.

Buzz was an A+ hiring. I think a Gregg Marshall would be similarly impressive. The other names that we've been linked to (Wojo, Willard, Odom etc.) would be solid, but not as impressive.

Just trying to get the point across that there was a bit of luck in the timing of Buzz being unhappy at MU, Whit being new to the job and having a bad coach in place that was easily replaceable etc. and we may not see a repeat of that.

I think you can look at any really good acquisition as needing a bit of luck to happen.

As much as it pains me now, the Nats only got Harper in the first place because they just happened to suck at the right time. Had they sucked slightly less that year they don't get him and how different would that franchise look now?

He shouldn't get credit for drafting John Wall because John was just about unanimous as the best prospect in the draft.

EDIT: This is probably too much hyperbole. Ernie deserves zero credit for Wall. Whit certainly deserves plenty for Buzz, but as an illustrative point, I think the mitigating factors at MU need to be taken into consideration.

There's actually a good book I read a few months back by Annie Dukes (professional poker player) that goes into exactly what you're talking about. She posits that it's a double edged sword. You can't judge a specific decision based on purely the result (she calls this 'resulting'), but at the same time multiple bad results is a trend that must be addressed.

In my personal opinion if Fuente turns out to be a bust it would be one bad data point among a handful of positive ones. I would give Whit the benefit of the doubt that it was a good decision that no one could have foreseen turning into a bust. Just my opinion though, and obviously I want Fuente to succeed and never have to wonder.

If the pinnacle of the Fuente era is the Coastal Championship with Beamer's players, it was not a "great get" for VT at all. Hindsight of course, but "up and comer" "hot name" are not what makes a hire great. Results do. If CFJ continues to mire around 3-4th in a weak coastal division with HIS players, it was not a great hire. A great hire would be to elevate what Beamer did, not be less than that.

Just seems like it's a bit early for the prognosticators here to be calling the pinnacle.

As far a judging by Beamer's record, what coach matches that in three years? Not even Beamer would measure up to that, and people here would be running him out of town on a rail. He didn't win more than six games before his seventh year. I hate to break the news, but he gets at least two more years, unless this year is similar to last year, in which his seat is going to be a bit hot.

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
“I served in the United States Navy"

I know, as do my bosses and coworkers, that once my fiancé finishes grad school there's a decent chance I'll be moving on to a new job closer to wherever she finds work. Does that mean I've put in any less effort than I would have otherwise? No. It's a business. And yes, I have to start new projects and take on new responsibilities on an almost daily basis that are going to fall to someone else to pick up one day.

Sort of depends on the business, but yes, people often put in less effort at their current job when they've decided they're headed somewhere else.

I don't think that's the case with Buzz, but it is a recognized phenomenon. I don't think Buzz would be capable of coaching less than 100%, because that's the thing he loves most of all. Apparently, just ahead of Texas.

That's not what my comment said at all. If he recruited players knowing he was coming to VT while at Marquette, then I think its shady. Same as if he had decided to go to A&M but was still recruiting for VT, knowing he would take the players to A&M.

I think its shady either way. I just don't think that VT was on Buzz's radar when he was recruiting at Marquette.

Its different if he knew he was going to A&M when he recruited them. There were no rumor that Buzz was in talks with VT when he recruited those kids to Marquette. And if he knew he was coming to VT when he recruited them, I would have a problem with that.

I think the distinction is intent.
1. *IF* Buzz was planning to be at Marquette at the time he recruited them to himself/Marquette, then he wasn't being shady. No split loyalties at the time he did the recruiting, and the players decided which way to go when the split happened.
2. *IF* Buzz was planning to hop to aTm while he recruited guys to himself/VT, then there were inherently split motivation. The potential for, or appearance of, conflict of interest in his use of VT resources to receipts guys to follow him to College Station.

Saying "it's just business" is something I don't think should apply to college athletics. Maybe I'm just being naive, but it's much more of a grey area to me.

*Also, I have no idea what your situation is nor do I mean any offense by this, but I doubt you are as important to your employer as a college coach is to their program. That being said, I understand people being upset about his departure, but not angry. Buzz quite literally course corrected our basketball program and the next coach has a chance to build on it.

The program is designed to make money. It absolutely is a business. That is why football and basketball are called revenue generating sports. How that particular line of business operates in the larger framework of the Athletic Department and School is another matter.

Having people reaching out to your coach about job offers is a side effect of being a successful program. If y'all don't want a break up with internet sources saying your coach is linked to other jobs, then Whit can bring in the next James Johnson and VT will be so terrible that we won't have that problem next time.

I found TKP after two rails from TOTS then walking back to my apartment and re-watching the 2012 Sugar Bowl. I woke up the next day with this username.

1. I'm not loving that Whit took it upon himself to confirm Buzz' departure, especially after the ECU hurricane pissing match/debacle (I understand those are very different situations, but still feels a little inconsistent and petty)

2. Goodman's snark about Buzz's implied job hopping, come on. I'm curious, anyone know what the average tenure of a P5 MBB coach is? So much talk about short leashes these days - if you're not winning by year 3 you're on the hot seat but you're jilting everyone when you're good after year 5? Can't have it both ways.

3. All this stuff about Buzz promoting his personal brand on social media rather than all VT all the time - that's just smart. Any coach today could have a down year and be out the door on the school's terms or a great year and get other offers. If you tie your social media presence too closely to your employer things can get tricky when things inevitably end one way or another. That doesn't mean Buzz was all about himself above VT. I don't believe for a second that Buzz's Bunch and #GetBetter are empty advertisements for some Buzz character hype. I think he's a genuine, thoughtful guy that believes what he preaches and also recognizes the world he's living in professionally.

Just because I go to a networking event doesn't mean I'm looking to jump ship from my current employer ASAP, but the days of retiring with a sweet pension from the company that hires you out of school are gone too, better to try to put yourself in a position to have options. It's a little unfair to not expect or recognize that other professions such as D1 college coaches can and should do the same for themselves.

I don't begrudge Buzz making what he feels is the best decision for him and his family. If you'd told any of us on day 1 this is how it would end we'd have taken that deal every time. It's easy after this season to think he could have been our Dean Smith, Krzyzewski, Boeheim or the basketball Beamer but that's not realistic anymore.

It hurts he's leaving but I wish Buzz well and will continue to be a fan. In Whit we trust.

1. Night and day difference with the ECU situation. Why would Whit be at all limited by Texas A&M? We have no contract with them. They were not negotiating with Whit. It was about them and Buzz. Whit making the announcement is his call to make for the future of VT basketball. If Buzz and A&M haven't announced then that's on them for waiting too long. If it's a done deal then we need a coach, no need to wait for them and to be frank zero reason why to extend that courtesy.

2. agreed. But as stated Goodman can be a blunt asshole in his reporting.

3. Absolutely agree. Any coach or player not promoting themselves is doing themselves a disservice and leaving money on the table when they get hired in their next job. I don't get the bitterness about this either. A great lesson for everyone to learn when moving into the workforce: The only person in your career that truly will look after you, is you.

Just glad he chose to spend 5 years of his coaching career at VT. I don't think anyone else could have done what he has in 5 years at VT. I will look back on these 5 years very fondly. In the beginning I was hoping he would want to be at VT for the long haul, and I lived in denial for a while. But looking back that was never his plan and Whit very likely knew that. I think Whit would have liked to keep him on board as long as possible, but surely he was prepared for this. The trick is not to lose all the momentum that this program has. Buzz built it up in great fashion, but his departure could bring it collapsing back down. For Whit, the Buzz hire was the first step in building the program. Now he has to find the guy that can capitalize on the momentum, convince some of our current roster to stay, and continue winning. The announcement of a new hire cannot come soon enough!

That pisses me off even more. I've never liked his brand. I unfollowed him several years back on all social media. After comparing the video you referenced to the previous ones, I can't believe he was so focused on A&M during our tourney run that he changed the colors.

It's not a stretch. For 5 years the #getbetter logo was maroon and orange and then suddenly the last video he posted during the tournament was maroon and gray. It doesn't take a genius to realize the color change was intentional.

And again, even if it was, so what? I can take a logo into Microsoft Paint and change a color in about 20 seconds. I don't get why this has to be some big conspiracy.

But for the record, a quick trip through Buzz's twitter shows the #getbetter logo in variations of orange and white, black and white, white and maroon, and orange and maroon. And I only went back to December.

Unpopular opinion- I don't blame him. If I were offered, at a minimum 25%, more to move from the 703 back to the 757 (home), I would take it in a heart beat. That's assuming he will make $3.5-$4M a year. Especially considering next year will likely be a rebuild with so many seniors and NAW.

My hope is the next coach can not only match the success Buzz had, but can build on it. Go Hokies!

Eh, that could be for the same reason we are anxious about Buzz leaving. Seton Hall might have a harder time finding a replacement than Marquette--or at least that would be the perceptions of those fan bases individually.

Someone with knowledge walk me through what's happening on the ground today and the last couple of days regarding our current roster. Does Babcock call Blackshear, NAW (to a lesser extent bc of the likely NBA jump), Nolley, Bede, Wilkins, and Kabongo in for 1 on 1 sessions? Does he pitch to them his short list of replacements and urge them to forestall announcing their future plans prior to meeting the new coach?

Or will be start to see the players tweeting their futures out today as well?

The guy literally had ZERO reason to come here in the first place with the position we were in and built something thats in a hell of alot better of a place now. Some of the pettiness is sickening how spiteful people are because of who he is/was. Thankful he took a risk and brought way more success to the program than I ever felt was actually possible and did it the right way which means alot. He put the kids he coached first and made something out of nothing I wish him nothing but the best for what he did for VT.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Im more or less trying to express that all Ive seen since the start of the week is people trying to dig and find anything to hold over his head instead of seeing this as an opportunity to reflect on overall a masterpiece on bringing a program in the dumps to relevant. Feels like a high school breakup with all the stuff people are accusing him simply because they cant see that we are in a way better place now and have a good shot at getting a good coach and continuing on the upward trend. Guess its unreasonable to hope for a more mature reaction from some people which is a shame in the end its all just a game.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

The guy literally had ZERO reason to come here in the first place with the position we were in...

Uh....did you read his contract at all? He had millions of reasons to come, not to mention job security in writing, and more earning potential outside of his VT coaching than most schools would have allowed. Oh, all while doing it with low expectations and ACC competition. Our situation opened the door for him to draft his dream contract. The fact that he proved his prowess as a coach is outside of that.

While I wish Buzz would've stayed, I always suspected he was only here as long as Med Hill and to a lesser extent J-Rob graduated. If it wasn't for Med's redshirt year this may have happened earlier.

That said I'm grateful for what Buzz has done for the program and at the very least his unique personality made it possible for our list of realistic candidates this time around to be a lot higher quality then when JJ was fired.

He's made 4 consecutive trips to the NCAA tournament. His teams have finished no worse than 4th in the Big East each year, with 3 third place regular season finishes. In 2 of those 4 seasons, the eventual national champion played in the same conference.

Over the last 4 years his teams have made the tourney, at least half of the Big East was good enough to find their way into the tournament in 3 of those seasons (until this year, when only 4 of 10 Big East teams made the tourney).

So yeah, he's a very good coach in one of the seven best basketball conferences. He might take a couple years to find his footing in the ACC but he'd keep VT competitive.

Thanks. I hadn't listened to that album in a long time.
I let this run in its entirety while looking through this whole thread and a few others.
That helped me deal with this. I'm still bummed, but more hopeful now.

Once upon a Time, many moons ago, I was bored and I turned to my friend and asked if they wanted to go to a Tech basketball game that night. My friend has never been to one before and really didn't care about basketball at all. Our tickets were $7 for the both of them. I've been going to Virginia Tech basketball games for over a decade now but that was the first one for him. We showed up and watched Buzz's group of players lose...to Alabama State. No not Alabama. Alabama State. It didn't surprise me. After all I've been watching really terrible basketball in Cassell for a long time now so my expectations were low. And my friend didn't care because, who cares about Virginia Tech basketball right?

Ever since then my friend and I have been season ticket holders in Virginia Tech basketball. My closet has more VT basketball shirts in it than football shirts. I donate more to basketball than football. Hell at this point the football season is just an excuse to go to lot 18 and day drink with my family while I impatiently wait for basketball season to start. None of that should have happened at a "football school". But it did. Because of Buzz.

To watch this team of guys who lost against Alabama State grow and develop into great players and men has been tremendous. I've seen Seth Allen start his VT career as one of the biggest liabilities on the team to straight up cold blooded assassin. I've seen 5 turn into the all time assist leader. It's been a real joy to watch this team transform into a Sweet Sixteen team, and not just a Sweet Sixteen team that lucked into it, but one that legitimately belonged that deep into the Dance.

Thanks for everything Buzz.

I found TKP after two rails from TOTS then walking back to my apartment and re-watching the 2012 Sugar Bowl. I woke up the next day with this username.

It's been a real joy to watch this team transform into a Sweet Sixteen team, and not just a Sweet Sixteen team that lucked into it, but one that legitimately belonged that deep into the Dance.

Getting off-topic, but this was what made last week's loss so tough - we belonged. We could play 10 games against Duke, and win 50% of the time. Shit, we might have been a final four team with CC and Nolley in the line up.

1. Buzz took the job when it was an absolute garbage dumpster fire job and he had no reason to. He did that and turned it into an NCAAT regular in 5 years. We should be very grateful of that.

2. Buzz flirting with jobs every offseason and spending an entire year planning to leave for Texas A&M, and leaving the cupboard bare as a result, does not make this program "fixed" or on a new level than before. We won 2 tournament games in his entire time here and they were both this year, as far as our national perception goes we are still a historically bubble/non tournament team that happened to be good this year. We were never even ranked until this year under Buzz. We could very easily be right back to the James Johnson years if things don't go right here. It was a fun 5 years but hailing Buzz as this guy who "saved the program" or did what Beamer did for football is a bit much. He could have been if he stayed, but he didn't, and right now we're at a fork in the road where we can continue the momentum he started or go right back to the gutter. As far as I'm concerned, Buzz was a hired gun who gave us a good 5 years but he hasn't built anything permanent here.

3. On point number 2, much like how Buzz was all about his own brand and not the school, I think anybody expecting ANYONE of note on the roster to stay for 2019-20 is just being blindly optimistic. Sitting out a year has never stopped players in this situation from transferring before, I don't understand why it keeps being brought up as such a deterrent for them. And on top of that it's easier to get a waiver to play immediately than it's ever been. I not only expect KJB gone, but Bede and Nolley too. Those guys were all out-of-state guys who came to play for Buzz. Would be shocked if any of those three stay and anybody else on the roster leaving wouldn't surprise me at all.

No, but I think anybody who already carved out a serious role or was highly sought-after as a recruit will. That is KJB, Nolley, Bede, and maybe Wilkins (but less likely than the others). At least for those first three, they all just strike me as guys who probably came for Buzz more than because they loved VT...but then again I don't really know anything, I'm just basing that on the fact that they all were highly recruited from far away and that Buzz always seemed to be selling himself more than the university. Maybe I'm wrong and they love Blacksburg but the signs don't really point that way to me.

Good story. I remember watching Bimbo Coles, and Wally Lancaster play against Pervis "Never Nervous" Ellison, when Louisville was a powerhouse and we were in the Metro Conference. Looking back....the Metro conference was pretty good for basketball. Louisville, Florida State, Memphis St, Cincinnati, Southern Miss, South Carolina, etc.
I didn't realize VT was in the Metro from 1979 to 1995...great memories in Cassell back then.

That being said, my biggest takeaway, from your comments: "To watch this team of losers.."

The same Goodman that said Duke would blow us out by double digits and that it wouldn't even be close in the Sweet 16. So I think we know where he leans on that, this dude is just pulling from connections he knows Whit has to Cronin I don't buy it

I mean we have the budget to pay a coach top 25 money and we have shown that basketball can be very popular in Blacksburg. I think it's feasible that we could get a good coach for more like 10 years instead of 5

It's time to move on. This message board is cathartic for a lot of us because Hokie fans are so passionate about Virginia Tech sports that it gives us an outlet or chance to express our thoughts. I am glad we had Buzz for 5 years, but I've been tired of the constant speculation every year of him leaving, so I'm glad it's finally done. I think the evidence has shown that Buzz is for Buzz and his family, and to some extent his players. I'm sure every other sports coach loves their own players so I don't for one minute think Buzz is unique in that regard. Buzz is his own agent and he only has one client - himself. He writes his own contracts and we all know that his contract between TA&M was done a long time ago - if not because of a source, then because if you've been paying attention the last five years - you'd know that Buzz is a planner and doesn't do anything off the cuff. Buzz is the ultimate self promoter. I think in his first week after being hired by VT he was on ESPN promoting himself (not really VT). If we gained any improved reputation, then that was what rubbed off of Buzz's reputation. His twitter is about himself, not Virginia Tech. Kind of reminds me of A. Bitter and his silly twitter feed (I mean feud) with Roanoke Times. Was Bitter working for the paper or himself? While I'm glad we had good basketball teams the last 3 years, and we beat UVA, Duke, UNC, and other ACC teams often, I am pretty annoyed that Buzz is leaving VT's cupboard so bare. I think whoever is our next Head Coach will have to rebuild the program and recruiting, since I think most of our recruiting the last few years was based entirely off of Buzz and the relationships he built. So, yes depending on who we get, we'll have to start over or at least reboot recruiting, which could potentially set us back a year or more - unless we make a major splash hire that is a better recruiter than Buzz (big question mark).

I really don't care who we hire as next head coach, as long as the new coach promotes Virginia Tech instead of himself. I'd like to win, but after Buzz I realize we need someone that has VT's best interest.

#Hokies AD Whit Babcock said the school will not employ a search firm for its basketball search. Said the athletic dept. won't be commenting after today and he's confident there will be no leaks. Asks fans for patience.
— Mike Barber (@RTD_MikeBarber) April 3, 2019

#Hokies AD Whit Babcock on coaching search: "There's no timeline on it. For everyone, and my own sanity, I'd love for it to be quicker than slower."— Mike Barber (@RTD_MikeBarber) April 3, 2019

#Hokies AD Whit Babcock said Buzz Williams first talked to him about possible interest in the Texas A&M job after the ACC tournament, but felt Williams was focused on NCAA tournament: "I don't think the job at A&M was a distraction. I'm grateful for that."— Mike Barber (@RTD_MikeBarber) April 3, 2019

Well, even after we settle on our guy, there will be the required background checks and so forth, which I think was part of the delay with the Buzz announcement, so my guess is end of next week or so at the earliest for any smoke coming from the athletic dept. chimneys.

Being a CA resident, I was lucky enough to watch our team whip some butt in San Jose and Whit was walking around socializing with the VT section a bit before the second round game. Guy is a total class act and at least presents a straight up legit, I crush it, do not worry about it persona. From what I saw and read year out, we are lucky to have him.

Buzz who? As both a Marquette and Hokie grad, I have a unique perspective on Buzz. First, I do like his charitable efforts. He sets a good example with those efforts, but, as someone earlier posted, Buzz is about Buzz. He is a good coach and gets maximum effort from his players. He gets them to commit to the program, the school, and their future. Unfortunately, his words of commitment are hollow when he doesn't exhibit that same commitment himself by bailing on both MU and Tech. He had a decent run the last 3 yrs and turned Tech into a "good" program, not great. Like at Marquette, he never won the big game when it mattered most and he's leaving the program a little lacking in talent. Between the two schools, Buzz's teams only won 1 regular season title and never a conference tournament. At Marquette, he had multiple NBA players, several that he inherited and only made one elite 8. When the recruiting was down, he moved on to Tech. Contrary to the article, he is not even the most successful Hokie coach. That would be Bill Foster who at least won an NIT championship. I wish no ill for Buzz, but, time to move on and hopefully convince our guys to stay Hokies. I would hate to see Blackshear or others leave with him. After all, it is the players we support. GO HOKIES!

I don't think it's worth starting a new thread for this, but FWIW Buzz just posted a picture of him inside Texas A&M's football stadium with the double dolla bill sign and the caption "As I stopped by Texas A&M Football, I had to pay proper respect to Johnny Manziel" with the hashtag #MoneySZN.

Yep, he just lost all of my respect. I was going to unfollow his page yesterday after the 16th post about Texas A&M, but that solidified it. Goodbye Buzz.

Buzz Williams' contract at Texas A&M: six years starting at $3.8 million annually, escalates by $100,000 each year. Meaning in 2025, $4.4 million (math was never a strength but I believe I got that right).— Brent Zwerneman (@BrentZwerneman) April 4, 2019

$3.8 is a tad high for basketball, but if we're going to field Top 25 teams in two sports, we'll be paying some good coaches in two sports. I don't anticipate we'll be paying our basketball coach more than our football coach, though. Texas A&M sure isn't.

By the time the escalator takes full affect buzz will be at 4.4 mil. I don't think it's coincidence that his pay to start out (3.8) puts him tied with the tenth highest paid coach in America (beilein at Michigan) and by the time his contract runs out would today put him at the 3rd highest in the country only below the rat and cal. I would say that Buzz made out very well here....especially if the buyout isn't crazy, which with buzz holding all the cards I'm sure it's not

Made me both roll my eyes and laugh. If by "stayed off social media" he means immediately changed his branding and tweets hourly...

Buzz Williams: It's all kind of surreal. I've stayed off social media since taking the job, but my son is a huge @JManziel2 fan. And my son told me, "Hey dad, Johnny @ you."— TexAgs (@TexAgs) April 5, 2019