If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Jyuubi = The God of Creation of the Narutoverse - All Ye Bow Down !!!

Creation of all Things!

Well I wanted to create a topic that's been overlooked that being the possible truth behind the 10 tails & the Gedo Mazo! According to Kurama (Kyuubi) he is literally called the source of all chakra and the progenitor all world. Yes I'm not sure how much people took of that seroius but....

Some of that may sound like hyperbole but the reality may simply be what Kurama said and the Jyuubi is the creation God of all living things (or at least humans & some animals) in the Narutoverse. As fantastic as that may seem its existence in itself is way beyond the realm of other beings in the narutoverse that we know & the bijuu that spawned from it seem to be near immortal.

Pre Human History Theory:

In the Narutoverse it may be before humankind existed much like in other mythology some sort of Giant god like beings ruled the earth. It is possible there where other creatures aside from the Jyuubi that coexisted at this time but for some reason perhaps out of boredom or competition to rule maybe they waged war on each other or decided to die out or leave. Ultimately the Jyuubi was left alone by itself and it decided to create life with its amazing god like powers and thus humans & maybe special animals (like the intelligent Frogs, Snakes & Monkeys type animals used for summoning.) Thus all of mankind may indeed be descendants of the Jyuubi it is the mother god of creation of mankind meaning all bloodlimits may have their origin with the Jyuubi.

It maybe that humans became war like and hostile or in some way displeased perhaps reminding it of the conflict that existed with the other creatures that waged war before mankind and the Jyuubi sought about ways to discipline the children it spawned. However keep in mind of the Jyuubi is ancient predating humankind and it way of thinking may be vastly different.

This part is just a theory based on mythological stories and such but bare with me here...

The Children of the Jyuubi - Mythology connection

Take note of this image above as it may be the most important one in this entire post. I have put together several images but lets start with Jyuubi eye. When the picture of the Jyuubi with a Rinnegan with 9 tomoe looking pattern first came out people divided as to if that was its natural eye or the effect of a jutsu the Rikudou Sage used. However if we are to take Kurama's words at value then it would seem to make sense that it was the natural eye of Jyuubi.

Thus in that context as I mentioned if the Jyuubi created all human life then humans also carry some of the Jyuubi traits like the ability to use chakra. However one human in particular was special as he was born with the eyes of the Jyuubi essential the power of the Jyuubi in human form so powered down a bit.

The next image to note is the back of the Rikudou sages jacked has 10 symbols a Rinnegan with 9 tomoes which I believe is borrowing from mythology and the Hebrew tree of life! Naruto would not be the first Japanese manga/anime/videogame to use such consepts as we have seen them before in Evangelion, Xenigears & even elements of FF7. However back to the point let me explain the connection.

Tree of life (Kabbalah)

Jewish mysticism depicts the tree of Life in the form of ten interconnected nodes, as an important part of the Kabbalah. As such, it resembles the ten sephirot.

Keter-"Crown": Divine Will to create/Infinite Light of the Creator/the Hebrew name of God "Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh-I Am that I Am"

Binah-"Understanding": the infinite flash of Chochmah brought into the vessel of understanding to give it grasp of breadth and depth/feminine vessel that gives birth to the emotions/reason/understanding brings teshuva return to God

Chochmah-"Wisdom": First unbounded flash of an idea before it takes on limitations/male light/Divine Reality/first revelation/creation from nothingness

Daat-"Knowledge": Central state of unity of the 10 Sephirot, also called the Tree of Life.

Tiferet-"Beauty": Symmetry/balance between Chesed and Gevurah in compassion

Netzach-"Victory"

Hod-"Splendor": Withdrawal/Surrender/sincerity

Yesod-"Foundation": Connecting to the task to accomplish/wholly remembering/coherent knowledge

Malchut-"Kingship": Female vessel for the pregnant nurturing of the male lights of the emotional sephirot into action/becomes the Keter Will source for any subsequent lower level in Creation/accomplishment/realization of the Divine Plan.

- Kabbalists believe the Tree of Life to be a diagrammatic representation of the process by which the Universe came into being. On the Tree of Life, the beginning of the Universe is placed at a space above the first sephira, named Keter ("crown" in English). It is not always pictured in reproductions of the Tree of Life, but is referred to universally as Ain Soph Aur (Ain - Without, Soph - End, Aur - Light). To kabbalists, it symbolizes that point beyond which our comprehension of the origins of Being cannot go; it is considered to be an infinite nothingness out of which the first 'thing' (thought of in science and the Kabbalah to be energy) exploded to create a Universe of multiple things

I'm going to relate the sephirot with their Naruto counterparts ...

1) Jyuubi = Keter So lets start there at the top of the tree is the Keter which on the Sage jacket has rinnegan patter thus showing the Jyuubi is the god of creation and a power beyond human comprehnsion.

However it doesnt stop there it gets better.....

2) Malkhut = Known Narutoverse Earth The Malkhut or bottom sphere represent the earthly plain of existence where our charcters live and the story takes place.

3) Sage of the 6 paths = Tiferet

Tiferet ("Adornment", Hebrew: תפארת [tiˈfeʔʁeθ]) alternately Tifaret, Tifereth, Tyfereth or Tiphereth, is the sixth sefira in the kabbalistic Tree of Life. It has the common association of "Spirituality", "Balance", "Integration", "Beauty", "Miracles", "Compassion", and "Masculinity".

In the Bahir it states: "Sixth is the adorned, glorious, delightful throne of glory, the house of the world to come. Its place is engraved in wisdom as it says 'God said: Let there be light, and there was light.'" Tiferet is the force that integrates the Sefira of Chesed ("compassion") and Gevurah ("Strength, or Judgement (din)"). These two forces are, respectively, expansive (giving) and restrictive (receiving). Either of them without the other could not manifest the flow of Divine energy; they must be balanced in perfect proportion by balancing compassion with discipline. This balance can be seen in the role of Tiferet, wherein the conflicting forces are harmonized, and creation flowers forth. Tiferet also balances Netzach and Hod in a similar manner. In that case Hod can be seen as the intellect where Netzach is seen as emotion.

4) Infinite Tsyukiyomi = Yesod read here:

The sephirah of Yesod translates spiritual concepts into actions that unite us with God. It is often associated with the Moon, because it is the sphere which reflects the light of all the other sephirot into Malkuth, and it is associated with the sexual organs, because it is here that the higher spheres connect to the earth.

5) The Completion of the Eye of the Moon plan = Da'at As Tobi explained "all things becoming one"

Da'at or Daas ("Knowledge", Hebrew: דעת [ˈdaʕaθ]) in Jewish mysticism, called Kabbalah, is the location (the mystical state) where all ten sephirot in the Tree of Life are united as one.

Properly, Da'at is not a sephirah, but rather is all ten sephirot united as one. Nevertheless, Daat is sometimes counted as a sephirah instead of Keter, from the perspective of finite creation using Daat to represent the "reflection of" (the "inner dimension" of) the infinity of Keter. Thus Daat appears in the configuration of the sephirot along the middle axis, directly beneath Keter. It corresponds to the Tzelem elohim (the "image of God embedded in humanity") and to the cerebellum (i.e. the "posterior brain")

I should point out Da'at is also similar to what happened in Evangelion when all humans physically lost there physical forms and had their souls fuse into one being. Although the Eye of he Moon plan is only a illusion it has similar results.

10 Rings

The other symbol in the pic is the 10 rings a Metaphorical representation of the Five Worlds, with the 10 Sephirot radiating in each, as successively smaller Iggulim-concentric circles. Very similar to the Rinnegan eh?

The Lotus

Notice the same Lotus flower in all images below:

From ancient times the lotus has been a divine symbol in Asian traditions representing the virtues of sexual purity and non-attachment. Most deities of Asian religions are depicted as seated on a lotus flower. In Buddhist symbolism, the lotus represents purity of the body, speech, and mind as if floating above the muddy waters of attachment and desire. According to legend[citation needed], Gautama Buddha was born with the ability to walk, and lotus flowers bloomed everywhere he stepped.

- Now in keeping with the theme that humans are the children of the Jyuubi you can also see the connection to Hashirama mokutan spawning these same lotus blossoms. The Gedo sits atop a lotus the same spot where years earlier Madara sat with a Hashirama clone behind him and a lotus flower.

Also Notice the 9 rings same as the Rikudous 9 tomoes on his jacket behind the Gedo and Madara's throne.

More Tree symbolism

This image is what made me thing of the Tree of Life as we see bodies produced almost like fruit from the connection to the Gedo. We also know Madara extended his life by absorbing energy from it

Gedo Mazo - Remnant of the Jyuubi's body

- Another huge reminder of the connection between humans and the Jyuubi is the chakra chains from the Jyuubi we have seen come out of its mouth the exact same power Kushina had!!

- The Gedo seems to have only base instincts seeing how most of its chakra was drained but not all. Even when Naruto took the Kyuubi chakra it still had power to form a powerful Bijuu bomb.

- The Gedo seems like it is starving for chakra as when Nagato hooked into it hes chakra or lifeforce seemed to get sucked out.

The Mind /Soul of the Jyuubi

- I suspect that the soul or higher consciousness of the Jyuubi was split amongst the 9 Bijuu hence it was a type of death and rebirth for the Jyuubi so it could understand life among the human plane like suffering which relates directly to the symbolism of the Rinnegan Buddhist origins of reincarnation leading to enlightenment.

- The bijuu may have left their true soul with Naruto and only their chakra energies went back to the Jyuubi. Thus the Gedo is more of husk than true higher consciousnesses.

- The idea being if they do unite and reform in the Jyuubi it will be a more enlightend Jyuubi having experienced the pain of suffering from humans by being Jinchuuriki.

The Final Summary

- So I have covered a lot of stuff here but in the end the basic summery is that the Jyuubi Created all humans and some intellegent animal life thus all creatures who use chakra are descended from it.

- All bloodlimits are also from the Jyuubi. The Rinnegan Sharingan etc have there source in the Jyuubi hence why the eye of the moon plan needs the Jyuubi.

- Like in classic mythology Gods create children and the children turn on the Gods can be seen in Rikudou using the powers he inherited from his Jyuubi ancestry to turn on the Jyuubi.

- It may be because the Jyuubi existence ie. immortality & virtually limitless power that it could not relate properly with puny humans it created. It is humans fragility(pain) that also allows them to grow, a being of god like powers would not understand.

- Thus Rikudou creating 9 Bijuu from the Jyuubi's own chakra and soul and hoping to teach them lessons was the hope of teaching the Jyuubi human values and wisdom through suffering. Something the Jyuubi could not comprehend in its original state.

- The Rikudou in itself may represent the Jyuubi powers in human form so scaled down given human limitations.

Well, tree as a symbol of life, knowledge or even all dimensions is quite common in mythologies.

You only mentioned Kabalah, but what about the Reverse Kabalah ? Anyway I'm pretty sure that Kishi will not dwell in it too much, seeing as it was a main point of his brother's manga.

The Rinnegan has four rings, you can notice that the Bijuu are gathered on the exact same number of rings, in reality illustrating it as the Bijuu standing in on Jyubi's eye, while So6p being the middle 10th pupil of the eye, or rather each one of them being a part of it, once again showcasing that all of them are a creations of 10-tails, thus parts of it.

His cape suggest that Rinnegan, the god eye, is looking at the 9 bijuus, or that they are simply under it's care/control.

The color pages suggest that GM is actually made of clay, or of similar substance that Hashirama and Zetsu clones are made and not of wood.

10-tails can fire at least 15 bijuu damas at the same time, at least it looks like that from the first picture.

Seeing as So6p was the first Ninja, and before Ninjas, Samurai existed, it means that at his time there already existed people capable of controlling chakra. He simply rediscovered it out again, a new way of putting it to use, thus creating ninjutsu.

All mutations comes from chakra (in Narutoverse).

Rinnegan comes from Jyubi one way or the other, although we still don't exactly how So6p acquired it. Was he born with it, or have he obtained it through his life (like some mutagen parts falling of from Jyubi and hitting So6p ? We at least know that eating it's meat could have been enough to give him the eyes.) ?

The bijuu seem mindless on the loose, but in reality they are not. This might mean that 10-tails is consciousness and had something in mind by creating and destroying civilization and species throughout it's lifespan. Or it was a simple coincidence, that something was born in the wake of it's destruction.

The paintings in GM's room illustrate the 9 Bijuu (small circles) being sealed within a container (square) - GM, from which a greater being (the large circle) - the Jyubi is being reborn/reconstructed upon it, thus overtaking it all.

A real Colossal Sword, is only Colossal when it is at least 5 times bigger than the thing you pilot:

The point of this thread is not so much about mythology as it is the idea that the Jyuubi is the creator of humanity. We already know Kishi borrows from various mythology I was just illustrating some lesser known concepts that relate the story.

The main idea is that all bloodlimits as well as the ability of humans and some animals to use chakra may very well come from the Jyuubi . Thus the Sage of the 6 paths is just a human who inherited the Jyuubi's rare power.

There hasn't been much discussion on the origins and role of the Jyuubi in the Narutoverse.

The point of this thread is not so much about mythology as it is the idea that the Jyuubi is the creator of humanity. We already know Kishi borrows from various mythology I was just illustrating some lesser known concepts that relate the story.

The main idea is that all bloodlimits as well as the ability of humans and some animals to use chakra may very well come from the Jyuubi . Thus the Sage of the 6 paths is just a human who inherited the Jyuubi's rare power.

There hasn't been much discussion on the origins and role of the Jyuubi in the Narutoverse.

I'm not sure why do you say that it "may" when it "is" ? It was already confirmed by Kyubi who is probably the oldest character in the series, together with other Bijuu. 10-tails is the progenitor, if it didn't exist, then perhaps no life would, well at least those capable of controlling chakra are certainly spawned of him, the only question remaining is why. Was it a coincidence, or was it intentional ?

One way or the other, all comes from Jyubi, unless we learn that other lifeforms landed on earth and procreated with the already existing life, or had to do something with it as well.

A real Colossal Sword, is only Colossal when it is at least 5 times bigger than the thing you pilot:

So what does the body becoming the moon say about "tsukiyomi"? Is tsukiyomi not just a bad aswhens genjutsu itachi used but instead a technique used when so6p negotiated the 10 tails? Everything about that technique, madara's plan, the 10 tails all are to be connected to each other and attached to the jyubi's physical form. "

Tsukiyomi seems more than just an uber jutsu used by itachi. Seems it was a destined and preordained technique. Makes you wonder why tobi would want sasuke to synch with gedou mazou when tobi or madara are supposed to be the people eligible to cast the jutsu through their magnified eyes. Maybe sasuke is needed to cast the genjutsu (like i previously hypothesized) ?

Since we're on a mythological and religion based bent in understanding aspects of the manga.. would it be ok to suggest that uzumaki is an Eve or Lilith? Given that uzumakis are shown to be wives of two kages then so to would their ancestor be mate to so6p. It would then mean the uzumaki are indeed blood relations to the senju without necessarily being a branch from the senju. A long time ago when "it is said that the sharingan's origin lies with the byakugan", i thought then that so6p was a hyuga with mutated eyes. Now i think IM believing it again with hinata and naruto representing a type of reincarnation of both character and also the union. The union of hyuga and uzumaki which birthed uchiha and senju. If the jyubi were to touch a hyuga then byakugan could be a perfect base by which to mutate or transform into an ultimate ocular doujutsu.

I'm thinking it would be interesting if they realized that trying to fight a god with direct power is pointless and there is no way to win that way. The Jyyubi is god like being of untold power it can not be beaten in a direct fashion. In my eyes the best way to beat a god is too summon another god to battle the Jyuubi on equal footing.

I mean we know about the Shinagmi being the god of death and the Jyuubi being the progenitor of "living" things but I bet there is another. I think there is also a god of he Spirit World and dreams as well as a god of Time-Space.

The same way a Sage can pool natural energy from the natural world and use sage mode. It may be possible to pool energies from the spiritual world and enter some kind of spirit mode allowing you to summon some kind of otherworldly God to the physical plane using a human as medium.

Forgive me but i gotta ask....How long did it take you to write that post pow.

I wrote that back in September but If I remember correctly I spent more time trying to find the right clips from the manga to make the collage than I did writing it as most of it was already worked out in my head.