We Would Crucify Him Today

All the relevant conditions here and now are identical to the time of Jesus’ crucifixion, and I firmly believe that we would execute Jesus today, just as they did.

Fascinating reading, John 19: verses 1 to 24.

Everything which is said, regardless of the intended nuance or connotation of the speaker, is absolutely true. Who says each thing is also meaningful; ironies and revelations abound when one “reads” the intentions of the speakers. It’s just as if God wrote out a script for this incident in history and his actors played it out. Most of those actors were unaware of the playwright’s scripting, acting out their own parts as they wanted. But there was not so much as an ad-lib in that play, and God had foreseen and packed every word so full of significance that we can find new insights each time we read it.

It’s very clear in the text that all principle parties were doing just as they intended, and that they were making their intentions open and transparent for the world to see.

Pilate was carrying out the execution of a man who he repeatedly declared innocent because it was politically expedient.

The chief priests knew what they were doing. They were killing their God.

We like to take comfort in the trope that in all old timey times, all old timey people were ignorantly more religious than we are now, because they were so superstitious and primitive. Please take another look at this religious book written by hopelessly religious people in that religion-benighted time.

Pilate is a relativist, a believer in relative truth claims. “What is truth?” He is declaring that there is no Truth.

The Sanhedrin were utter secularists. The first person we see Jesus engage in philosophical discussion is a priest from the Sanhedrin. (John 3) This man, Nicodemus, needs Jesus to explain the existence of the supernatural as though he is a spiritual preschooler. This priest does not even recognize that there is a spiritual dimension to his religion.

And he was the one with an open mind! As you read through the gospel of John, written by an eyewitness who was a member of the inner circle of the inner circle of the apostles, the actions of the Pharisees can be quite puzzling. Happily John, as a witness and with the insight of the Holy Spirit, reveals to us the Pharisee’s reasoning. The Son of God came to his people as predicted and those to whom he came did not recognize that He had to be a spiritual figure.

They did not care about his transcendent purpose. They wanted only a political solution.

They did not even consider that he ought to be honored as God; they did not give Him his place.

Jesus earlier tells the parable of the vineyard workers who kill all the owners’ representatives, then kill his son, reasoning that they, the workers, will inherit the vineyard if the son is out of the way. It’s a brilliant story because, not only does it reveal how nonsensical the Pharisee’s reasoning is, but it actually reveals what they think of their God. A machine to be worked; the heir dies, we inherit the goods. They recognized no sentient Person who might react with intention.

The thought process of the vineyard workers make no more sense than the chief priests’ demands for execution of their long-expected Messiah, unless the demands are coming from people who are totally secular. They recognized no spiritual reality; they recognized no claims of the God to whom they belong.

The whole point of the history of the Jews told in the Bible is that God had lovingly created, preserved and protected his chosen people, yet they had continually turned away from Him to adopt foreign gods, follow other cultures, submit themselves to lesser idols; outwardly observe the nuts and bolts of religion but inwardly submit only to their self-oriented desires. Anything but to be accountable to this Holy God.

Be a priest, but understand your faith as only a hierarchical secular society with secular purposes, which are strictly social and political. Spiritual reality is not even on the radar. The religious leaders of Jesus’ day were completely blind to the spiritual dimension of their own world, and even their own faith.

And so when this upstart religious leader began collecting listeners, then followers, the leaders questioned his authority. When he made truth claims which they did not grasp, they were dismissive. When he spoke to them as Authority they were offended. When he, as God, demanded an accounting of them for their stewardship of the faith, and for their faulty leadership of the people, they marked him for extinction. Away with him. When He threatened their secular power, they actively plotted to have him killed.

Here is your king!

Away with Him, away with Him! Crucify Him!

“We have no king but Caesar.” This is a shocking admission by members of the Judaic people. God was their King. They were intentionally rejecting their God and demanding his crucifixion.

It was not a fundamentalist faction who killed Jesus. It was not a religious people who executed him. It was secularist non-believers who had Jesus killed.

We would do the same now. We live in a secular world, where even many Christian denominations admit of no spiritual element. Yet multiplied thousands follow and dutifully uphold these churches as secular, social do-good organizations. Are we more enlightened than they were?

If Jesus were to come now, we would crucify him. What is there about our time which would change the outcome?

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39 thoughts on “We Would Crucify Him Today”

I am not a Christian but I am well read. I agree with your post though.

I believe Jesus was killed by the Jewish leaders because of two things.

1) He told people, see that building and those holy men. That isn’t where god lives and you don’t need them because god is your father speak to him as such.

2) You failed. That was his message to the leaders. Why? Because god gave the Jews his light and said you are my chosen people. But what were they chosen to do? They were chosen to bring god to the world. Instead they held it close and said no one but us because we are the chosen. They forgot they were chosen to teach and bring everyone to god.

Today He’d be killed for the exact same message but the words would vary most likely. The out spoken anti-believers would kill him today. They would first label him and the complicit media would stigmatize him. They would attack him as hateful. My bet is they wouldn’t need to crucify him. He’d die of a broken heart at what he saw and heard.

I can’t make it any simpler, Ark. All of those involved were utterly unable to comprehend the supernatural and the spiritual. There were no “believers” involved. Nominal representatives of a religion to which they were dead, yes.

They were priests but, as my post explains, did not even recognize the spiritual element; it was not even on the radar. They had institutionalized and secularized their religion.
That they were not believers, even as they represented themselves as teachers, guides and spokesmen for God, was the whole point of Jesus’ criticism.

Sure. I used to wonder how the Pharisees were able to dismiss Jesus’ teaching and his claims right after watching him perform a healing right before their eyes. Or to listen to him say all the words they were expecting their long-awaited Messiah to say, and turn to each other to discuss how to get rid of him.
No recognition of the God they themselves were representing. No interest in the spiritual. Only the secular political interest remained.

If my comment in the attempt to answer why the pharisees could dismiss and kill Jesus was offensive I am sorry I made a genuine effort to answer it from the view point of the pharisees using the Jewish holy Torah which is part of your holy Bible as a means to answer you. I backed it up with scripture that you can find in your own bible.

I also plainly stated this is not my view but an attempt to answer your question of how could they despite his miracles and everything they witnessed. /shrug

Anyway if the link was offensive please just delete it because it wasn’t my intent to be offensive.
Feel free to email me and tell me what was offensive or what I did wrong michelle@aghostdancer.com

If God were to go to a Muslim country he would be killed immediately, however if he returned in a 1st world country such as Australia we would probably give him a citizenship and make him a celebrity and he would be scientifically and psychologically analysed to make sure he was not a scam. You may laugh but how many nut cases are claiming they are the one.

Of course, Jesus demonstrated who he really was in exactly the manner required to make it clear to his audience. It was clear and understood.
I have no doubt that the manner might be different for our contemporary society, but it would be tailored to be understood by us as well.

Please tell me what is different here? We have heaps of faith healers and nut cases who are at best tricksters and scammers who claim they are connected directly to God and many people claim they are healed and worship the ground they walk on.

Maybe the Pharisees saw him as we see these faith healers today. You say It was secularist non-believers who had Jesus killed. All I can say is there would have been a really good reason for priests other than so called political motives who had committed their lives to worship to turn completely against Jesus. Obviously the full story has not been divulged and has been manipulated. The bible is interwoven with fact and fantasy and there is nothing we have to prove otherwise.

If it’s obvious that the full story has not been divulged, and that it’s interwoven with fantasy, if it’s so full of holes, how do you determine that it’s been manipulated, or where it has and has not? I’m guessing your answer might be something like: …Because I declare that X or Y could not have happened, so I have decided these parts are not true. But that won’t do. I am treating the Biblical accounts as historical record, which is what they are, and using them as my reference. What source are you using other than your opinion?

The easy answer to your first question is that none of these faith healers claims to be God, nor are they.

His proofs that he was God were not only healings. He fulfilled many prophecies that could not be faked, such as his line of descent, place of birth, details of execution, and others. He spoke the words and made the claims, spoke as authority on Scriptures…he made himself completely recognizable to the people of his time and place AS their Messiah. It is crystal clear from their words and actions that they understood who he was; they just didn’t care.

Actually I already answered that. Jesus was a Jew, The prophecies were Jewish prophecies. He was birthed by God and not of the line of David, and the prophecies were not fulfilled I listed them in my answer to you. I listed the biblical references ect..

So using ONLY the source you quote I proved from the Jewish point of view he was not who he claimed. Does that make it right? Who knows but it does demonstrate your interpretation of fulfilling the prophecies is not accurate using only the source you quoted.

I will recap them quickly here.

“What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish when he comes? One of the central themes of biblical prophecy is the promise of a future age of perfection characterized by universal peace and recognition of God. (Isaiah 2:1-4, 32:15-18, 60:15-18; Zephaniah 3:9; Hosea 2:20-22; Amos 9:13-15; Micah 4:1-4; Zechariah 8:23, 14:9; Jeremiah 31:33-34)

Specifically, the Bible says he will:

1 Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).

2 Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).

3 Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: “Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore.” (Isaiah 2:4)

4 Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: “God will be King over all the world ― on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One” (Zechariah 14:9).

If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then he cannot be the Messiah. So sayth the Torah (aka) the Old testament.

Because no one has ever fulfilled the Bible’s description of this future King, Jews still await the coming of the Messiah. All past Messianic claimants, including Jesus of Nazareth, Bar Cochba and Shabbtai Tzvi have been rejected. So Jesus was not the first to claim such a place among the Jews.”

As you can see there are others from Jewish history who claimed the same as Jesus.

Please don’t get me wrong I am not calling you or your faith false or wrong. I am for the sake of the discussion demonstrating how and why people could question what you believe.

However, most of the prophecies you have listed here refer to here are spoken by God the Father in reference to a coming time when He will create a new heaven and a new earth. I think it’s obvious we do not see Almighty God resolving all things yet, either in Jesus’ time or now.

Paul a Pharisee of the Pharisees, understood from the OLD TESTAMENT that there would be a Day of the Lord where God would work His final will upon His Creation. These things were understood from Day One of the Church, and go back to the beginning of Genesis.

There were people who recognized that Jesus was Messiah at his birth. How if he had to fulfill the things you suggest?

As for the others who claimed to be the One: how many prophecies did they fulfill? Did the chief priests ask the Romans to execute them? Did they come back to life after they were dead?

The Scriptures account for the failure of the Jews to recognize him their Messiah when he came:

John 1: 10-11: He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him.

How about this prophecy, predicted, pre-figured; declared by Him; and confirmed by Him?
First–Isaiah 61:
The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn…

Then–Luke 4:
And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read. And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written:

“The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
Because He has anointed Me
To preach the gospel to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,[j]
To proclaim liberty to the captives
And recovery of sight to the blind,
To set at liberty those who are oppressed;

To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.”[k]

Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue were fixed on Him. And He began to say to them, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.” So all bore witness to Him, and marveled at the gracious words which proceeded out of His mouth.

Finally–Matthew 11:

And when John had heard in prison about the works of Christ, he sent two of[a] his disciples and said to Him, “Are You the Coming One, or do we look for another?”

Jesus answered and said to them, “Go and tell John the things which you hear and see: The blind see and the lame walk; the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear; the dead are raised up and the poor have the gospel preached to them. And blessed is he who is not offended because of Me.”

As I said I merely explained how they could do it not why. From a strictly Jewish point of view you would be 100% false in claiming he will complete it on his second coming.

It is not my view but I have studied the Jewish faith and the holy works the Torah and Talmud with scholarly and observant Jews as my teachers.

The Jews did not believe in Moses, our teacher, because of the miracles he performed. Whenever anyone’s belief is based on seeing miracles, he has lingering doubts, because it is possible the miracles were performed through magic or sorcery. All of the miracles performed by Moses in the desert were because they were necessary, and not as proof of his prophecy.

What then was the basis of [Jewish] belief? The Revelation at Mount Sinai, which we saw with our own eyes and heard with our own ears, not dependent on the testimony of others… as it says, “Face to face, God spoke with you…” The Torah also states: “God did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us—who are all here alive today.” (Deut. 5:3)

CHRISTIANITY CONTRADICTS JEWISH THEOLOGY

The following theological points apply primarily to the Roman Catholic Church, the largest Christian denomination.

A. GOD AS THREE?
The Catholic idea of Trinity breaks God into three separate beings: The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost (Matthew 28:19).

Contrast this to the Shema, the basis of Jewish belief: “Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is ONE” (Deut. 6:4). Jews declare the Shema every day, while writing it on doorposts (Mezuzah), and binding it to the hand and head (Tefillin). This statement of God’s One-ness is the first words a Jewish child is taught to say, and the last words uttered before a Jew dies.

In Jewish law, worship of a three-part god is considered idolatry—one of the three cardinal sins that a Jew should rather give up his life than transgress. This explains why during the Inquisitions and throughout history, Jews gave up their lives rather than convert.

B. MAN AS GOD?
Roman Catholics believe that God came down to earth in human form, as Jesus said: “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30).

Maimonides devotes most of the “Guide for the Perplexed” to the fundamental idea that God is incorporeal, meaning that He assumes no physical form. God is Eternal, above time. He is Infinite, beyond space. He cannot be born, and cannot die. Saying that God assumes human form makes God small, diminishing both His unity and His divinity. As the Torah says: “God is not a mortal” (Numbers 23:19).

Judaism says that the Messiah will be born of human parents, and possess normal physical attributes like other people. He will not be a demi-god, and will not possess supernatural qualities. In fact, an individual is alive in every generation with the capacity to step into the role of the Messiah. (see Maimonides – Laws of Kings 11:3)

C. INTERMEDIARY FOR PRAYER?
The Catholic belief is that prayer must be directed through an intermediary—i.e. confessing one’s sins to a priest. Jesus himself is an intermediary, as Jesus said: “No man cometh unto the Father but by me.”

In Judaism, prayer is a totally private matter, between each individual and God. As the Bible says: “God is near to all who call unto Him” (Psalms 145:18). Further, the Ten Commandments state: “You shall have no other gods BEFORE ME,” meaning that it is forbidden to set up a mediator between God and man. (see Maimonides – Laws of Idolatry ch. 1)

D. INVOLVEMENT IN THE PHYSICAL WORLD
Catholic doctrine often treats the physical world as an evil to be avoided. Mary, the holiest woman, is portrayed as a virgin. Priests and nuns are celibate. And monasteries are in remote, secluded locations.

By contrast, Judaism believes that God created the physical world not to frustrate us, but for our pleasure. Jewish spirituality comes through grappling with the mundane world in a way that uplifts and elevates. Sex in the proper context is one of the holiest acts we can perform.

The Talmud says if a person has the opportunity to taste a new fruit and refuses to do so, he will have to account for that in the World to Come. Jewish rabbinical schools teach how to live amidst the bustle of commercial activity. Jews don’t retreat from life, they elevate it.

There in lies some of the issues of Jesus the Jew and Jesus the Christian. I fully understand how based solely on a biblical teaching the holy men of the day executed Jesus as a fraud.

Once more I am neither Jew, Muslim nor Christian but I am well studied in the three.

Another place the bible and the Torah differ is heaven and how to enter.

Judaism does not demand that everyone convert to the religion. The Torah of Moses is a truth for all humanity, whether Jewish or not. King Solomon asked God to heed the prayers of non-Jews who come to the Holy Temple (Kings I 8:41-43). The prophet Isaiah refers to the Temple as a “House for all nations.”

The Temple service during Sukkot featured 70 bull offerings, corresponding to the 70 nations of the world. The Talmud says that if the Romans would have realized how much benefit they were getting from the Temple, they’d never have destroyed it.

Jews have never actively sought converts to Judaism because the Torah prescribes a righteous path for gentiles to follow, known as the “Seven Laws of Noah.” Maimonides explains that any human being who faithfully observes these basic moral laws earns a proper place in heaven.

Jews believe ALL have a path to heaven even without faith in God himself.

There is no wiggle room in the belief of the Jews that the messiah would come and fulfill ALL the requirements and Jesus did not do this. So the holy leaders at the time executed him and if the same were true today they would reject him though the Jews wouldn’t execute him again I believe.

He challenged their concept that God is One–it was an offense that He should claim to be His son. But the concept of a trinity is actually throughout the Talmud, for instance in the creation passage.
Our understanding is that Jesus was 100% god and at the same time 100% man. Not a demigod or other hybrid.
However, the concept of no intermediary was offensive and foreign before Jesus Christ brought the New Covenant…The Temple system of sacrifice was to provide atonement; the high priest could enter The Holy of Holies only once a year and only if he had successfully become ceremonially clean would he survive the encounter. The Israelites could not approach the mountain lest they die when only Moses spoke with God….When Jesus gave up his spirit on the cross, the thick veil in the Temple was torn in two FROM TOP TO BOTTOM, thus symbolizing that NOW, because of Jesus final and complete atoning sacrifice, we have access directly to the Father.

Biblical Christianity is not Catholicism. We do not find a need for the priesthood, celibacy, confessionals, transubstantiation, etc. These are man-made distortions and they do not represent Christianity.

Indeed the Bible endorses the joy of living gratefully with the good gifts that God has given. And Jesus confirmed the redemption of the physical body at his Resurrection. God created the physical world and it is to be accepted with joy. This is Biblical Christianity’s understanding also.

But the Tanakh does not teach that there is a free entrance card to heaven. Scholars may teach their own doctrines, as they did in Jesus’ day, but the OT does not in any way communicate that God has no requirements for entering into His glory.
The price to be paid for our admission was the sacrifice of God’s only dear Son, who willingly went to torture, humiliation and death so that you, I, and every person who has lived may enter God’s presence in heaven.
God is holy, our sins cannot be tolerated by Him. So He planned from the beginning of time to pay the price Himself so that we could enjoy fellowship with Him. But if we reject His way, Jesus Christ, we choose to deny ourselves that opportunity.

For this message, the Jewish scholars you mention, just like the Sanhedrin of Jesus’ day, reject Jesus as Messiah, even though He is the fulfillment of all that is written in their own Scriptures.

To any who have studied the Torah (by the way it isn’t my faith either) he did not complete the requirements. I was merely answering you why they could see the miracles and still put him to death.

I like to understand peoples faith by studying with real scholars. That is the only reason I know the Quran and Torah/Talmud so well. Not because I believe in them but because I studied with learned people. I am taking some Christian studies courses this next college go round. I do find people faith fascinating and I am certainly not disparaging yours. I just got excited because I actually knew an answer for once. 🙂

I know how they could do it. I even know why they did it. Jesus made them irrelevant by teaching the people you don’ need those men your father is my father and you should speak to him like the loving father he is. You don’t need that building or those men to pray or be heard.

I still like reading what you have to say and I do agree people would execute him today. Islam certainly would. Kind of sad eh?