- ----------
> From: Deacon
> To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
> Subject: Re: Message from Deacon.
> Date: Sunday, March 22, 1998 1:05 AM
>
> Hi Gang. Today I got to missing this list to the point I had to come
> back! You guys are friends of mine, I didn't realize how much you are
> all part of my life until my Inbox was empty every day.

At 09:14 AM 3/23/98 +0000, you wrote:
>> From: Sleddog
>> Subject: RE: strokes, or the continueing debate
>> Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 15:17:47 -0500
>
>> any CFD (compressible fluid dynamics) experts out there?
>>
>> if these posts are not on topic, please tell me and i will not stray
>> from FTC as far in the future. thank you.
>
>Maybe we should have a "Ford truck Engine" list? Or just a "Ford
>Engine Performance" list? Why do most of us drive old trucks? We
>like rust? We like to work our butts off looking for parts? Or is
>it because we can play with the combinations of engines and other
>things without getting into college degrees and expensive electronic
>toys? I say you're right on Mr Dog :-)
>
>BTW, I just picked up my first engine hoist ever at TSC for $249 with
>2 ton fully retracted capacity, cast iron wheels and bearings in the
>swivels etc.. Really heavy duty outfit for the price. Main reason I
>got it was to tie on the back of my PU to move stuff around in the
>yard since I got rid of my wrecker :-) Really wierd aint it, I get
>within 10 - 15 items from the bottom of my list of projects and I
>just have to go out and buy some more stuff to make sure I don't run
>out of something to do............
>
>78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
>78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
>78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!
>
>-- Gary --

Actually, if you want to discuss performance, the Fordnatics lists
is a good place. Link is in our links section. This may be an option
in the near future here but in the meantime you might want to check
out Fordnatics though... warning: most of the people there are
Mustang fans.

> At 07:40 AM 3/23/98 -0800, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >Hello: Got a question for anyone on the list that might be running a
> >4100 Autolite carb on their trucks. I realize they are probably sitting
> >on an FE, but I plan on putting one on my 460 but after doing some
> >preliminary checking found that the air cleaner mounting pad on top of
> >the 4100 is slightly larger than a Holley. Since I have to run a
> >plastic spacer, that holley makes, to get the air cleaner up high enough
> >to clear all the peripheral junk, this spacer doesn't fit the
> >autolite. Makes sense that the air cleaner probably won't work in the
> >4100 either
>
> I don't have it on my engine yet but the stock aluimnum spacer should work
> fine.

Stu: pardon my stupidity but which stock aluminum spacer are you referring to.

BDIJXS wrote:
>
> Does anyone know if there are significant differences in the Dana 60's (rear)
> in the F-250's through the 70's and 80's?

77-1/2 changed spring perch distance. About 74, they went from 16 to 30
spline axles. Somewhere around 84, they went to 35 spline axles. 78-79,
and maybe before this, had brake drum on back of hub, making bolt on use
of rear disk kit with Ch*bbie parts available. This rear, with drum on
back of hub, may have been used to 84.

What I'm doing is updating my 69
> F-100 4x4 (Dana 60-2 rear, semi-floating axles) to the 8-lug full floating
> style. There are several of these down at our local junkyard, everywhere from
> 75 through 85.....seems like the newer one would be best....I'll have to
> measure spring seat widths and shock mount stuff. Also, mine has a Trac-Lok
> (limited slip), I'm hoping it will fit into the newer housing.

The swap is possible if you can find an intake. Your best bet would be a
company called B&A Performance. They pioneered the CLEVOR circle-track
combination in the early eighties using the Aussie head.
But for the money spent I don't know if you'd like it. The Cleveland 4bbl
head is way to slow flowing for a heavy vehicle, unless you run stiff gears
and a stick shift. You didn't state your intended usage, my opinion is you
would be dissapointed in it's performance in a truck. Trucks need torque,
and that means port velocity. Stroke helps, but this combination in my
opinion would be a real pig. A set of '70 2bbl quench heads would work
better with forged dish pistons at 9.5 to 1. You need more accurate info on
the pistons available to know for sure.
I have a friend with a 68 Ranger shorty who pulled out a 351 2bbl (with a
4bbl conversion intake)to put his 360 back in because it was gutless under
2500 rpms, and he realized that off-idle power was what he really needed. Of
course the 351C made more power but it wasn't the right kind of power for
his needs. And his 351C was a mild one, a more radical one would be even worse.
To make this combination do it's potential (6000 rpms up)some beefing up is
necessary. The crank is plenty good,as all Ford cranks are, but get someone
who knows performance machine work and can read a mic to prepare it.
Aftermarket rods willl be necessary if you run over 6000. Otherwise good
prep and bolts. What applies to oiling on a Cleveland applies to this
engine, assess your upper rpm limit,and modify as necessary.
Good Luck

mostly mustang fans, windsor fans and now the modular engines. seemed to
be very few people doing engine builds, if any at all, similiar to what i
am doing currently. but, alot of car stuff does transfer to our trucks and
that helps. there is alot of good info there for anyone wanting to stroke
a windsor. lotsa good tech for the computer controlled crowd.

Actually, if you want to discuss performance, the Fordnatics lists
is a good place. Link is in our links section. This may be an option
in the near future here but in the meantime you might want to check
out Fordnatics though... warning: most of the people there are
Mustang fans.

>>
>> I don't have it on my engine yet but the stock aluimnum spacer should work
>> fine.
>
>Stu: pardon my stupidity but which stock aluminum spacer are you referring to.
>
>>
Whoa John!!! I am the village idiot but I am learning daily! Please, this was
definitley not a stupid question! I did not know a thing about them til
recently when someone mentioned it to me. There is a stock spacer which is
about 1 inch thick made of aluminum. Outlet and inlet for water passages,
one in front and one in back, and one place where the hose that goes to the
PCV goes in back. They can be had for about 30-35 bucks new. The old ones
tend to get corroded easily and pitted. Try Pony Carbs out of New
Woodstock, New York. they are a great source for Ford Carb stuff. I'll
see if I can find their URL. Maybe someone has Pony carbs site handy. I
don't have a spacer yet so let me know what you come up with. In the
meantime, I'll see what I can come up with!

>Hi all,
>I heard mentioned awhile back about the duraspark having a built in
>retard while cranking for easier starting? Is this true? If so does
>anyone know if there is a way to turn this retard on with a switch so
>when I'm towing my engine won't ping. Please help. My 76 F250 Highboy
>tow truck could really use this if it's possible.
>Dave Complete and Total FORDNUT, Highboy Nut, & FE Nut too!!!!!!!!!!

I wanted to do this also but a few minutes with a D-spark box, an
oscilloscope, and a signal generator cured me of the desire.
The problem is that the delay appears to be based on a simple R-C time
constant, so the delay is a fixed amount of TIME, not a fixed # of degrees.
The box I tested had a delay of about 2.5 milliseconds regardless of
input frequency, which gives a retard of about 6 degrees at 400RPM,
12 degrees at 800RPM, 30 degrees at 2000RPM, 60 degrees at 4000RPM, etc.
It's too bad, it would have been a conveniant feature...

Steve

Though good may come of practice, this primal truth endures;
The first time anything is done, it's done by amateurs.
-- Art Buck

Dana wrote:
>Sorry all!!!
>
>This is from the horses mouth at Auto-somthing-er-other ( AutoTune maybe )the
>manufacturer of the aftermarket module that I am using. The cranking retard is
>only available ( and gets less as rpm increases ) under 300rpm or so.
>
>I.E. On one particular box the retard would be 16 deg at 100rpm then 8 deg at
>200rpm then 0 at 300rpm you get the point.

Hmmm, that's interesting. That's just the opposite of the results I got
on the O-scope with a genuine Ford box...

Steve

Though good may come of practice, this primal truth endures;
The first time anything is done, it's done by amateurs.
-- Art Buck

the high flow of the 4V heads is offset by more cubes, especially if the
block is bored for a bigger displacent also. another thing that can be
done is use a 30 deg valve seat. this helps low lift low rpm flow alot,
with a small decrease in upper lift higher rpm flow. a good port matching
job, a responsive carb, and a standard trans or higher stall speed
converter also help. a good ignition (duraspark or msd, jacobs etc.) helps
some and putting a screen in the intake gaskets help too. in fact, these
are sold for most engine types. the screen helps to put back into
suspension the fuel droplets that have become too large. never used them
myself, and i don't beleive the companies advertising claims, but i do know
it was a racers trick in the golden age of hot rods.

i had a brainstorm the other day. tell me if anyone has seen this or
similiar done. i was considering using the exhaust crossover, heat passage
in the intake manifold as a cooling area to cool the intake charge instead
of the stock heating of the charge. i would block off the ends on the
intake, and run cool water through it recurculating it through an ice
filled cooler using a pump, or through a small radiater with a fan. it
would only be for short time periods. (i use this BB for truck pulling
mainly)

seems almost like a cheap aftercooler. don't really know if it would work.
any ideas? has anyone tried something like this or seen something like
this?

it is a naturally aspirated 521 using a custom offy P-O-S intake, and no
nitrous. i will most likely be running turbo blue race fuel which runs
pretty cool to start with.

So I notice that the temp gauge is acting abnormally, looking
a bit higher than customary. Coolant looks low, so I think
it's probably just one of the cruddy looking old hoses leaking
and I'll just replace them, refill the radiator, and be ready to
go in about 30 minutes. Yeah, right. After replacing the hoses
and filling, I notice that coolant is dripping out of the water
pump, back behind the fan. So, since I'm now getting ready
to replace the water pump on my truck (66 F100, 352), are
there any tips, tricks, or gotchas that any kind person on
the list can point out? Thanks...

> points with a Pertronix Ignitor I put on new cap rotor and wires
> also new plugs all of which are in the correct places I hooked up

> the distributor other than the aforementioned The motor cranks fine
> but does'nt even try to fire I have already readjusted the floats to

If you have a remote start switch (I made one out of a horn button
and some wire with alligator clips) you can pull the No 1 plug,
rotate the engine with your thumb or finger over the hole to feel
when it's on the compression stroke and then carefully bring the
timing marks to the stencil spec.

Once you have it at the specified BTDC spec and on the compression
stroke by what ever means then eyeball the rotor (plastic removable
one) to the No 1 wire on the cap. if necessary, pull the dizzy and
reset it till you can get a match with the vac near centered between
the thermostat housing and the other side of the manifold which
interferes with it's movement, making sure the pump shaft is seated
and then rotate it till the arm of the steel rotor lines up exactly
with the rectangular area in the center of the mag pickup and lock it
down.

If you've done all this correctly and put it back together and it
still doesn't fire you have another problem, perhaps a jumped timing
chain on the cam.............

Chevys are like IBMs and Fords are like Macs. There is more
aftermarker support for the IBM & Chevy, they do their job,
are OK for the average user, and everyone has one. But everyone
knows the Mac & Ford is faster, more reliable, and just plain
better.

> I have a 62 f350 with dual rear wheels. The tires are a mix of 7x16
> and 7.5x16. This all matches with the specs for the vehicle. My
> question is that the rear tires rub - in fact, I couldn't get both
> wheels over the lugs when they were fully inflated. Any clues? Is
> there a spacer that goes between the wheels? I have been sworn to
> that the wheels are original to the vehicle. The wheels are the 6
> lug variety. Any ideas?

Dual wheels require a special tire size which is compatible with the
wheel spacing and offsets. Dual wheels are generally offset over
100% in one direction so they can be reversed to eliminate any
spacers. Since the rim edges are almost touching there is no room
for the tire to have any additional cross section below the tread or
they will rub.

If you use a spacer to allow wider tires to be mounted be aware that
the lugs will have to be longer and will probably shear due to
fatigue induced by the extra leverage applied by the spacing.

- ----------
> From: Harry Jennings
> To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
> Subject: Ford Vs. Chevy
> Date: Monday, March 23, 1998 1:28 PM
>
> I just heard this today and thought is was funny. So here it
> is----
>
> Chevys are like IBMs and Fords are like Macs. There is more
> aftermarker support for the IBM & Chevy, they do their job,
> are OK for the average user, and everyone has one. But everyone
> knows the Mac & Ford is faster, more reliable, and just plain
> better.

Sorry...I'll put my PC up against any Mac and make apple pie out of it. My
Ford OTOH...

>
>
> Ok, what exactly is it doing?
>
>IT ACTS LIKE THE BATTERY IS DEAD.
>
> The other type of hot soak problem usually only happens with new
> engines with tight wrist pins which expand due to heat absorbed from
> the crank making them tight in the pistions. When severe enough this
> can actually bend the connecting rods but this phenomena is quite
> rare and not very likely in a broken in engine.
>
THIS MOTOR HAS LESS THAN 5 HOURS OF RUN TIME, PISTONS AND WRIST PINS
ABOUT 15,000 MILES, RINGS AND ALL BEARINGS ARE NEW.

With all this talk about parts swapping and how longer stroke engines
need more breathing it got me thinking (oh no...;)

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone has ever used 351C 4V (or Boss) heads
on a 400M.
SNIP
But what cam and intake to use...???
SNIP
__________________

Harry:

The heads bolt on no problems, that is until you get to the intake manifold;
as Sleddog said.
Start out with the 4BBL closed chamber heads if possible. The open chamber
heads like all open chamber heads are prone to detonation. Select your
pistons (Forged) to give you about 9.5-10:1 if you plan on pump gas; crank
it up if you are illegal, I do love that smell!
To make the 4BBL heads be "Efficient" you need to run a single plane, or
Tunnel Ram intake. No one makes these types of manifolds for the "M"
engine, but everyone did for the Cleveland.
To make up for the tall deck of the "M" get the spacers "WEIAND Part Number
8205", You will have to have them port matched as their made for the 2BBL
head. For the Manifold I have had good results with the Single Plane
"WEIAND
X-CELerator: 7516 2BBL Heads, & 7517 for the 4BBL".
The next "Problem" is that with the manifold/spacers installed you can no
longer use the stock distributor... Weiand recommends "MALLORY #2556701"
which isn't a bad unit, but I like the Factory unit better, so you have two
choices here. Cut the manifold and weld in a bunch of clearance, much work,
and UGLY.
Lift the distributor approximately 2 inches by sectioning the shaft and
housing
adding in custom machined spacers and pressing, then welding it all back
together. I also add a sealed roller bearing to replace the factory top
bearing.
OK, now we have the Intake side all buttoned up, retained the wide spacing
on the distributor terminals; but we still need the Carb.
If you are going to be on the street/strip simply call Barry Grant and order
it.
That is the simplest and more then likely cheapest option. Off Road stay
with the
Carter(750), they are easy to tune in and will work when tipped big time.
Yes,
you will be down on power some initially but if you like to tinker you can
get the power, it just takes some fiddling, and a lot less fiddling then
EFI!!
The next step is to address the exhaust side of the head. The ports are
huge, so they should flow big numbers.... wrong shape! So we fix this; the
simple fix is to slap on a set of "Port Plates" there are several makers I
use "MPG Head Service" parts. Use good gaskets when you do this, and expect
leaks more often then if you didn't use the plates, the price you pay for
power.
For a true Hi-Pro engine you will be running a solid lifter or a roller cam.
You will need to have the heads machined to accept new rocker studs for an
adjustable valve train. If you don't mind taking risks you can try the bolt
on stuff. Your choice.
Camshaft? Well here we go.... All camshaft manufacturers are even more
arrogant and larger a$#$ then I am! and according to some that isn't a
complement!!!
The exhaust side is where you will find the most critical timing events
being required. I wish that I could recommend a Specific Cam but, I wont,
I will give an example of what your looking for: if an automatic 0.050 I
228: E234: I0.55: E0.57: 112LC, this type of cam will give about 325-380HP
and 300Lb/Ft. at 1800RPM, YMMV. Use your best judgment and then go one
size bigger! Remember that the problem is not to get air in it is to get it
out. Even a bigger problem if you choose to bottle feed the engine!
Headers are critical, use 1 3/4" Dia primaries as the minimum size / 2 1/4
Max, and Minimum 3" duals, with a 3" balance tube. You are limited by the
number of people that make headers for this engine. Stay away from any brand
that by their design
has to use a split primary tube to go around the engine mount (or goes
around the engine mount, period). The only reason for this design is to
make them cheaper, not to make more power! If you are after power forget
"Block Huggers"! Hooker makes some fairly well designed headers, but, I
build my own if the engine is going to be over 400HP.

That carb's pretty small for a 460.
Something like, what, 480 cfm?
George

John MacNamara wrote:

> Hello: Got a question for anyone on the list that might be running a
> 4100 Autolite carb on their trucks. I realize they are probably sitting
> on an FE, but I plan on putting one on my 460 but after doing some
> preliminary checking found that the air cleaner mounting pad on top of
> the 4100 is slightly larger than a Holley. Since I have to run a
> plastic spacer, that holley makes, to get the air cleaner up high enough
> to clear all the peripheral junk, this spacer doesn't fit the
> autolite. Makes sense that the air cleaner probably won't work in the
> 4100 either
>
> Can I enquire as to what kind(s) of air cleaners are any members running
> on their 4100's. If anyone is using a spacer would be interested in
> that info also.
>
> Thanks
>
> John MacNamara
>
> 78 F250 4X4 Supercabl Ranger XLT Lariat
>
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
> | List removal information is on the web site. |
> +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

Dana the Pertronix Ignitor does not change anything except that it uses
a magnetic pickup instead of the points I know this because I had
installed one on my 240 all I did was replace the points and fire it up.
I never moved the distributor so I can not understand how the timing
could have moved although this was the common response so I took your
advice and fought the distributor after 6 stabs I finally got it this is
not the problem I still only have a spray of gas from the carb.and an
occassional pop no fire really at least not constant mostly just popping
and spraying of gas it's like instead of the fuel being sucked into the
manifold it is being pushed out I pulled my plugs and they are not gas
fouled I really don't know where else to look BTW the plugs are gapped
at .032 Any more ideas?

Ok. As some folks may remember I'm putting a 390 in my '67 F100, and I've=

been talking to folks about parts etc. for the swap motor. I now have thr=
ee
guys at the Ford dealership (one of them the parts manager who claims to
know just about everything) who insist that the little engine ID tag that=

bolts under the coil was only put on engines that were _remanufactured_ b=
y
Ford. Not new motors but remanufactured motors only. They say that becaus=
e
of this tag I can safely assume that my engine was rebuilt by Ford around=

12 years ago. =

Folks, I realize that there is more important stuff than this going acros=
s
this list, but is there anybody out there who used to work for Ford or
something who can verify that the info stamped on this tag is for new
engines, not remans? Or am I wrong? Thanks. I think these guys are blowin=
g
smoke but would like to be able to prove it to them.

Also, is there any way to visibly identify a steel crank from an iron
crank? It's still in the block and I'd rather not take it out. I'm trying=

to make sure I know exactly what is going into the truck and I've been
getting what I now believe to be a-lot of bogus information. =

I beg to differ on the tag under the coil as we recently pulled it off my
71 torino and found it there and as far as I know my car is original. I
was told its how you know if its the orginal motor it the tag is there or
not. Of course I could be wrong so if someone knows more please correct
me.
Ryan

> Ok. As some folks may remember I'm putting a 390 in my '67 F100, and I've
> been talking to folks about parts etc. for the swap motor. I now have three
> guys at the Ford dealership (one of them the parts manager who claims to
> know just about everything) who insist that the little engine ID tag that
> bolts under the coil was only put on engines that were _remanufactured_ by....

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