If the trapped Chilean miners had subscribed to the tea partys every-man-for-himself philosophy, they would have been killing each other after about two days, MSNBC host Chris Matthews said on his Hardball show Wednesday night.

In an interview with AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka, Matthews railed against the tea party, saying its central belief is every man for himself. No more taxes, no more government, no more everything. No more safety net.

You know these people, if they were every man for himself down in that mine, they wouldn't have gotten out, Matthews added.

That's exactly right, Trumka chimed in.

Matthews continued: They would have been killing each other after about two days.

The Hardball host added that the story of the dramatic rescue of 33 trapped Chilean miners, which has dominated cable news in recent days, was an example of people working together.

The people who were down there for two months, he said, the people who were above ground from all over the world, using state-of-the-art equipment, not to get rid of the need for manpower but to save manpower in this case.

I could go on but you get the picture...the guys you hate have contributed to the history of art, literature and philosophy...the guys your end of the spectrum have contributed hate, mass-urder and genocide.

If I hadn't heard it all before I'd be shocked.

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad

I could go on but you get the picture...the guys you hate have contributed to the history of art, literature and philosophy...the guys your end of the spectrum have contributed hate, mass-urder and genocide.

If I hadn't heard it all before I'd be shocked.

Notice how you move from commies to LEFTIES. Yet with the right, you merely keep it to Nazi's. (Not that there is agreement that Socialists/Nazi's are rightists because many of their policies in no form or fashion resemble conservative principles.)

Do you do this on purpose? I mean you can't be that desperate to try to make a point can you?

Notice how you move from commies to LEFTIES. Yet with the right, you merely keep it to Nazi's. (Not that there is agreement that Socialists/Nazi's are rightists because many of their policies in no form or fashion resemble conservative principles.)

Do you do this on purpose? I mean you can't be that desperate to try to make a point can you?

Seems logical and it has the benefit of making it easier to understand for those of a non-intellectually based skillset.

I think all sane rational people know Nazis are Right-wing and Socialists are left. Right-wingers tend not to.

I think all sane rational people know the earth was not created 4000 years ago. Right-wingers tend not to.

I think all sane rational people know Obama is not a Communist. Right-wingers tend not to.

There's a pattern here.

In the past, ignorance was also rampant but we had this little thing called 'self awareness'. Sometimes it also resulted in a by-product 'humility'.

What it meant in practice was that an uninformed person actually accepted they were such. Sometimes they didn't care - which was fine - and sometimes they realized they could learn more which was fine too.

Now we have something different: people who are woefully ignorant. Far more than before (though some are of course merely liar) and they have no self-awareness at all.

They think they are right. They are convinced. No scientific proof, no evidence or facts, no logic, no records...nothing...nothing will convince them they might not perhaps know everything it is possible to know and be right 100% of the time.

Of course when one thinks like this then it follows one has a DUTY to convert and inform. Why not? You're almost God.

Occasionally one of these types has a quasi - breakdown and questions whether it really is possible that he, he alone (well, he and others of his ilk) could actually know the WHOLE TRUTH.

Perhaps even, he might be overwhelmed by some evidence.

No problem. Just change the meaning of the word.

Overwhelming evidence that Fascism means Right-wing ideology? No probs!!! Just change it to mean 'Communism'.

And the Happy Bus is rolling again...

Note: The more astute reader will notice that the above describes clearly a group of people...a group of people with a name and a political position....shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....no names, no pack-drill.....

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad

Notice how you move from commies to LEFTIES. Yet with the right, you merely keep it to Nazi's. (Not that there is agreement that Socialists/Nazi's are rightists because many of their policies in no form or fashion resemble conservative principles.)

Do you do this on purpose? I mean you can't be that desperate to try to make a point can you?

trump - you do this same thing all the time, trying to associate the democratic party and/or athiests with the genocides of Stalin, etc.

I think all sane rational people know Nazis are Right-wing and Socialists are left.

Well...an honest argument would say that it's a bit more complicated than that.

Quote:

To rescue Germany from the effects of the Great Depression, Nazism promoted an economic Third Position; a managed economy that was neither capitalist nor communist. The Nazis accused communism and capitalism of being associated with Jewish influences and interests. They declared support for a nationalist form of socialism that was to provide for the Aryan race and the German nation: economic security, social welfare programs for workers, a just wage, honour for workers' importance to the nation, and protection from capitalist exploitation.

I think one can start to see where the confusion arises by looking at that statement and lining it up with modern liberal/progressive/leftist rhetoric and policies.

These things come straight out of a Marxist/Socialist perspective.

That they demonized and even killed those who they identified as their enemies might suggest a linkage to right...ummm...leftist thinking also presents a point of confusion.

In the end perhaps the right/left labeling is unhelpful. Additionally self-labeling is also. In my view there are other, different axis on which to try and evaluate and classify particular groups, movements, people, positions and policies. These might include collectivist vs. individualist thinking, liberty vs. anti-liberty thinking, statism vs. non-statism.

Well...an honest argument would say that it's a bit more complicated than that.

Not really.

One could look at the make-up of the camps for example. Proportion of Left-wingers/Commies to Right-Wingers is probably about 99-1. And the Right-wingers were probably gay.

Quote:

I think one can start to see where the confusion arises by looking at that statement and lining it up with modern liberal/progressive/leftist rhetoric and policies.

Like to see where you got that quote...I notice you don't link to it...

Quote:

These things come straight out of a Marxist/Socialist perspective.

I disagree....When Hitler attacked Capitalist he essentially meant Jews. He was intent on dismantling Jewish financial power and this is how he initially gained public support to do it.

Quote:

That they demonized and even killed those who they identified as their enemies might suggest a linkage to right...ummm...leftist thinking also presents a point of confusion.

Confusion for some is not confusion for others

Quote:

In the end perhaps the right/left labeling is unhelpful. Additionally self-labeling is also. In my view there are other, different axis on which to try and evaluate and classify particular groups, movements, people, positions and policies. These might include collectivist vs. individualist thinking, liberty vs. anti-liberty thinking, statism vs. non-statism.

It's not helpful for a Rightist.

Why is that btw? I am a Leftist but I do not ever attempt to claim that Stalin was either a) a Good guy or b) Not a Communist.

Seems odd. Is also confined to the US as far as I can tell too.. everyone in Europe knows what is what.

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad

Maybe. If you're saying that what it says is wrong, go fix it. Also, feel free to provide a source you consider to be authoritative*.

*You might notice though that the entire entry is pretty heavily footnoted and contains a pretty extensive bibliography, and the section I quoted is footnoted. I omitted the footnotes in my quote for readability reasons.

Seems logical and it has the benefit of making it easier to understand for those of a non-intellectually based skillset.

I think all sane rational people know Nazis are Right-wing and Socialists are left. Right-wingers tend not to.

I think all sane rational people know the earth was not created 4000 years ago. Right-wingers tend not to.

I think all sane rational people know Obama is not a Communist. Right-wingers tend not to.

There's a pattern here.

In the past, ignorance was also rampant but we had this little thing called 'self awareness'. Sometimes it also resulted in a by-product 'humility'.

What it meant in practice was that an uninformed person actually accepted they were such. Sometimes they didn't care - which was fine - and sometimes they realized they could learn more which was fine too.

Now we have something different: people who are woefully ignorant. Far more than before (though some are of course merely liar) and they have no self-awareness at all.

They think they are right. They are convinced. No scientific proof, no evidence or facts, no logic, no records...nothing...nothing will convince them they might not perhaps know everything it is possible to know and be right 100% of the time.

Of course when one thinks like this then it follows one has a DUTY to convert and inform. Why not? You're almost God.

Occasionally one of these types has a quasi - breakdown and questions whether it really is possible that he, he alone (well, he and others of his ilk) could actually know the WHOLE TRUTH.

Perhaps even, he might be overwhelmed by some evidence.

No problem. Just change the meaning of the word.

Overwhelming evidence that Fascism means Right-wing ideology? No probs!!! Just change it to mean 'Communism'.

And the Happy Bus is rolling again...

Note: The more astute reader will notice that the above describes clearly a group of people...a group of people with a name and a political position....shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....no names, no pack-drill.....

This is hilarious. There is indeed a pattern. It's called ignoring sources, links, citations and word definitions to repeat what you want to caricature ad-infinitum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by e1618978

trump - you do this same thing all the time, trying to associate the democratic party and/or atheists with the genocides of Stalin, etc.

No, what I do is illustrate to those on here the problem with exception as the rule reasoning. They will make very broad generalizations claiming some obscure example or historical claim. I show them the error of this reasoning by noting the leftist exception or example. Thus by their own reasoning, they should apply the same conclusions, but of course that doesn't happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by segovius

Trump does it with DEMOCRATS - I do it with RIGHT WING IDEOLOGY (what they call 'thought').

The purpose of his INTENT GAME is to show:

Obama = Communist
Communists = Murderers.

My purpose is more prosaic. Pedantic even...it has a lot to do with what we used to call 'facts' and 'definitions' back in the day.

First, you are hilarious to read today. Second, taking past actions and reinterpreting them into completely opposite conclusions using the intent game is an interesting form of insanity. Lastly this thread wasn't about past events but speculation about, and a place to post examples of Democrats sliding into insanity when instead of a generation of control and utopia as they were promised, they lose a large chunk of their power a mere two years later.

So to summarize using an analogy,

Saying that when your parents give you an easter basket it really means they hate black people and want to murder homosexuals = insanity.

Saying, look this dude is clearly driving into a wall, let's stop and watch = not insane.

The Democrats have driven the economy off the rails and watching the carnage and what they do about it will be interesting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJ1970

Well...an honest argument would say that it's a bit more complicated than that.

I think one can start to see where the confusion arises by looking at that statement and lining it up with modern liberal/progressive/leftist rhetoric and policies.

These things come straight out of a Marxist/Socialist perspective.

That they demonized and even killed those who they identified as their enemies might suggest a linkage to right...ummm...leftist thinking also presents a point of confusion.

In the end perhaps the right/left labeling is unhelpful. Additionally self-labeling is also. In my view there are other, different axis on which to try and evaluate and classify particular groups, movements, people, positions and policies. These might include collectivist vs. individualist thinking, liberty vs. anti-liberty thinking, statism vs. non-statism.

There you go making sense again. Stop doing that or all the people who read this who are not Seg will totally think he is CLUELESS and flailing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by segovius

Not really.

One could look at the make-up of the camps for example. Proportion of Left-wingers/Commies to Right-Wingers is probably about 99-1. And the Right-wingers were probably gay.

He might start making up crazy and insane magical numbers.

Quote:

I disagree....When Hitler attacked Capitalist he essentially meant Jews. He was intent on dismantling Jewish financial power and this is how he initially gained public support to do it.

He might play the intent game. (Hitler called himself a socialist and attacked capitalism but here's what he really meant.)

Quote:

Confusion for some is not confusion for others

True, clearly you are very confused right now and flailing badly at attempting to persuade to your perspective.

Quote:

Why is that btw? I am a Leftist but I do not ever attempt to claim that Stalin was either a) a Good guy or b) Not a Communist.

Probably because you'd like everyone to forget all the events that totally invalidate your worldview.

Quote:

Seems odd. Is also confined to the US as far as I can tell too.. everyone in Europe knows what is what.

Everyone know Europe is a bunch of tribes who spent a thousand years killing each other over the slightest differences and only managed to stop when the U.S. imposed it's will on them. Now that the U.S. influence is diminishing there, they are going right back to their bad old habits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by segovius

Wikipedia may not be the tablets from Mt Sinai.

Says the man pretending to be a burning bush and dismissively ignoring the citation with a magical wave of his hand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by segovius

Do you have an SS uniform SDW?

Are these your "madness letters" Seg? Should we have you committed now?

I know nothing about the candidate, but I did see this in the news yesterday. He says he was part of WWII reenacting. Do you see a problem with that? I don't.

No, I don't see a problem but a lot of voters might.
If re enacting than clean your ffffing uniforms for NAZIs these guys are a disgrace and would be court marshaled. Adolf would have had none of this kind of bullshit.

Not that we needed a study to tell us this, but according to one conducted by a UCLA grad student, media coverage of Tea Party rallies has dramatically overrepresented the presence of racist or other offensive signs there.

According to the Washington Post, which laudably reported on the study today, UCLA grad student Emily Ekins found that "media coverage of tea party rallies over the past year have focused so heavily on the more controversial signs that it has contributed to the perception that such content dominates the tea party movement more than it actually does."

Ekins, who, it should be noted, is a former intern at the libertarian Cato Institute, actually attended the September 12 rally (imagine that) and kept a tally of the types of signs she saw there:

Quote:

Ekins photographed about 250 signs, and more than half of those she saw reflected a "limited government ethos," she found - touching on such topics as the role of government, liberty, taxes, spending, deficit and concern about socialism. Examples ranged from the simple message "$top the $pending" scrawled in black-marker block letters to more elaborate drawings of bar charts, stop signs and one poster with the slogan "Socialism is Legal Theft" and a stick-figure socialist pointing a gun at the head of a taxpayer.

There were uglier messages, too - including "Obama Bin Lyin' - Impeach Now" and "Somewhere in Kenya a Village is Missing its Idiot." But Ekins's analysis showed that only about a quarter of all signs reflected direct anger with Obama. Only 5 percent of the total mentioned the president's race or religion, and slightly more than 1 percent questioned his American citizenship.

Ekins's conclusion is not that the racially charged messages are unimportant but that media coverage of tea party rallies over the past year have focused so heavily on the more controversial signs that it has contributed to the perception that such content dominates the tea party movement more than it actually does.

"Really this is an issue of salience," Ekins said. "Just because a couple of percentage points of signs have those messages doesn't mean the other people don't share those views, but it doesn't mean they do, either. But when 25 percent of the coverage is devoted to those signs, it suggests that this is the issue that 25 percent of people think is so important that they're going to put it on a sign, when it's actually only a couple of people."

I know nothing about the candidate, but I did see this in the news yesterday. He says he was part of WWII reenacting. Do you see a problem with that? I don't.

Let's see if you see a problem with his quotes about the Waffen SS 5th Panzerdivision Wikin which this idiot celebrates in the re-enactments.

First the crimes:

Quote:

Members of the division's bakery column, led by Obersturmführer Braunnagel and Untersturmführer Kochalty, assisted Einsatzgruppe A in rounding up Ukrainian Jews. Witnesses report that the Jewish victims were forced to run a gauntlet formed by soldiers who would beat them as they passed, and when they reached the end of the gauntlet, Einsatzgruppen officers murdered them and their bodies were pushed into a bomb crater.

In addition historian Eleonore Lappin from the Institute for the History of Jews in Austria has documented several cases of war crimes committed by members of the 5 SS Division Wiking in her work The Death Marches of Hungarian Jews Through Austria in the Spring of 1945.

On March 28, 1945, eighty Jews from evacuation column, though fit for the journey, were shot by three members of the Waffen SS division Wiking and five military policemen. On April 4, twenty members of another column that left Graz tried to escape near Eggenfeld, not far from Gratkorn. Soldiers from the 5 SS Division Wiking that were temporarily stationed there apprehended them in the forest near Mt. Eggenfeld and then herded them in a gully, where they were shot. On April 7 and 11, 1945 members of the division executed another eighteen escaped prisoners.[9]

You might also have heard of a certain Josef Mengele who served with this division.

Now the quotes by your Tea Party friend:

Quote:

Iott said its hard to judge whether these guys were courageous. (ie the Waffen SS)

I dont think we can sit here and judge that today. We were not there the time they made those decisions, Iott said, when asked about the bravery of the Nazis he and his group dress up as.

And not surprising actually as it seems the Tea Party has the roots of its origin in Neo-Nazi ideology:

Quote:

Increasingly, the Tea Partiers have been fused to far-right causes. Starting in the spring, anti-immigrant vigilante groups like the Minutemen began turning up as prominent organizers and speakers at Tea Party events.

And today, the identification of the Tea Party and its leaders with Islamophobia is total--with the consequence that hard-core anti-Muslim racists can speak to a wider audience than ever.

For example, the driving force behind the campaign against the Islamic community center in New York City is Pamela Geller and her "Stop Islamization of America" organization. Geller considers herself a Tea Partier--she spoke at the Tennessee Tea Party Convention in May. She's also an admirer of fascists--praising the far-right English Defense League, as well as Eugene Terreblanche, the deceased South African neo-Nazi who was known for threatening civil war to maintain apartheid.

On September 11, to make the identification complete, Geller and her cohorts organized a rally against the Islamic community center, with far-right Dutch politician Geert Wilders speaking alongside fixtures of the U.S. conservative movement like former United Nations Ambassador John Bolton. Wilders warned the crowd to "draw this line so that New York...will never become New Mecca."

GOP hopeful Rich Iott slammed for being photographed in Nazi uniform, defends self as history buff

BY Meena Hartenstein

Quote:

Nazi or nerd?

That's the question hovering over GOP congressional candidate Rich Iott, after a photo of him posing in a Nazi uniform surfaced online this weekend.

Iott, a Tea Party favorite who is running for a seat in Ohio's ninth district, says he is not a Nazi sympathizer but a history buff who liked participating in historical re-enactments.

"It's purely historical interest in World War II," Iott told The Atlantic after the magazine discovered the photo.

But Eric Cantor, House Republican Whip (R.-Va), slammed Iott, telling Fox News Sunday, "I would absolutely repudiate that and do not support an individual who would do something like that."

Iott has admitted being involved with the WWII historical re-enactment society Wiking for many years, and the organizations rosters reportedly show him being a member as early as 2003. He said he joined "as a father-son bonding thing" but quit in 2007 when his son was no longer interested.

The society models itself on the Wiking division of the SS, Hitlers Nazi military force. In the controversial photo, Iott grins while wearing a Waffen-SS uniform.

Quote:

Iott says his interest in the group came not from Nazi leanings but from a respect for their tactical accomplishments during WWII. They took over most of Europe and Russia, and it really took the combined effort of the free world to defeat them, he told the Atlantic. "From a purely historical military point of view that's incredible."

He chose the Wiking unit, he said, because the real-life division fought against the Russian Army, not American or British soldiers.

Historians, however, take issue with this version of events.

Quote:

"The entire German war effort in the East was a racial crusade to rid the world of 'subhumans,'" military historian Rob Citino told the Atlantic. "The multimillion Jewish population of Eastern Europe was going to be exterminated altogetherIt sends a shiver up my spine to think that people want to dress up and play SS on the weekend."

Following the furor over the photo, Iott took to his campaign website to post a statement and photographs of himself participating in re-enactments wearing other military uniforms.

Quote:

"Never, in any of my re-enacting of military history, have I meant any disrespect to anyone who served in our military or anyone who has been affected by the tragedy of war, especially the Jewish Community," he said. "I also believe we need to 'never forget' what happened to Jews during that war."

"They have to take it in context," he told the Atlantic. "There's re-enactors out there who do everything. You couldn't do Civil War re-enacting if somebody didn't play the role of the Confederates. [This] is something that's definitely way in the past."

One of the most interesting things here is how it is fine to consider things like this that are certainly distasteful, but not illegal as wrong when they involve German's and Nazi's but we cannot do so when they involve someone who is Muslim.

His explanation is completely rational but taste and public sentiment about certain items doesn't have to be completely rational.

Just use Google Translate. I can quickly summnarize it for you. Snarky retorts about the U.S. becoming a Nazi state.

Your German is as bad as your English.... you're wrong in that language too.

Quote:

One of the most interesting things here is how it is fine to consider things like this that are certainly distasteful, but not illegal as wrong when they involve German's and Nazi's but we cannot do so when they involve someone who is Muslim.

Actually they his actions are illegal in certain countries... I realize America is the benchmark and the only thing that matters but that's not my point.

The point is that illegality isn't the benchmark. If it is then you should support legally elected governments like Hamas for example. Where I sit now major drugs are all but legal - at least you cannot be arrested. Legal status is subject to change - morality is not.

The Nazis Mr Lott so admires had a few interesting laws too...maybe he shares your view (well, obviously) and is viewing those as being ok because they were legal.

Re Muslims - will wait for your link where Muslims do an equivalent. Should be fun.

Quote:

His explanation is completely rational but taste and public sentiment about certain items doesn't have to be completely rational.

Completely rational??????????

Right...dressing up in the uniform of the Waffen SS division which was instrumental in the mass murder of Jews. Right.

What's your Halloween costume this year Trumpy? Muhammad Atta?

Would that be rational?

Don't think too long.....knee-jerk response is fine.

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad

Your German is as bad as your English.... you're wrong in that language too.

Quote:

Actually they his actions are illegal in certain countries... I realize America is the benchmark and the only thing that matters but that's not my point.

It's your point, but it's not your point.

Quote:

The point is that illegality isn't the benchmark. If it is then you should support legally elected governments like Hamas for example. Where I sit now major drugs are all but legal - at least you cannot be arrested. Legal status is subject to change - morality is not.

You seem to be talking right past me. I didn't condone his actions. I simply said they weren't illegal. Building a mosque isn't illegal either but many people consider it in poor taste.

Quote:

The Nazis Mr Lott so admires had a few interesting laws too...maybe he shares your view (well, obviously) and is viewing those as being ok because they were legal.

Re Muslims - will wait for your link where Muslims do an equivalent. Should be fun.

I already noted the equivalent. Second, with regard to Nazi laws and the political spectrum, the Nazi's were clearly on the left. A large centralized and authoritarian government that offered many services (in exchange for your soul of course) like health care, and handouts along with gun restrictions sounds just like the Democratic platform today.

Quote:

Completely rational??????????

Right...dressing up in the uniform of the Waffen SS division which was instrumental in the mass murder of Jews. Right.

What's your Halloween costume this year Trumpy? Muhammad Atta?

Would that be rational?

Don't think too long.....knee-jerk response is fine.

There's no rationality to either historical reenactments nor Halloween costumes.

Yet people like the late Senator Robert Byrd, who was actually a member of the KKK, get a free pass. Amazing.

Quote:

The Democrat's 51 years in the Senate made him the longest-serving senator in history, while his white mane, stentorian voice and flamboyant speeches citing Roman emperors gave him the presence of a man from a grander, distant time.

In many ways, Sen. Byrd embodied the changes the nation has undergone in the past half century. A onetime segregationist and opponent of civil rights legislation, he evolved into a liberal hero as one of the earliest, unrepentant and most vocal foes of the Iraq war and a supporter of the rights of gays to serve in the military. He was the acknowledged Senate Renaissance man, who could recite poetry by memory for hours and yet be ruthless in advancing his legislative agenda.

In many ways a throwback to an era of powerful orators like Henry Clay or John C. Calhoun, the stiff and formal Sen. Byrd could speak at great length with fire and passion, mixing references to the Roman Empire with emotional memories of his almost seven decades with his late wife Erma.

Former President Bill Clinton referenced the late Sen. Robert Byrd's membership in the Ku Klux Klan as a young man during his eulogy for the longtime senator this afternoon in West Virginia. Clinton was the only speaker to reference this dark chapter of Byrd's history, which has been a topic of much discussion over the years.

Many of Byrd's colleagues have said that Byrd learned from the experience and that he championed civil rights later, and took pride in endorsing Barack Obama in his bid to become the nation's first black president.

The young Klan leader went on to become one of the most powerful and enduring figures in modern Senate history. Throughout a half-century on Capitol Hill, Sen. Robert C. Byrd (news, bio, voting record) (D-W.Va.) has twice held the premier leadership post in the Senate, helped win ratification of the Panama Canal treaty, squeezed billions from federal coffers to aid his home state, and won praise from liberals for his opposition to the war in Iraq and his defense of minority party rights in the Senate.

Despite his many achievements, however, the venerated Byrd has never been able to fully erase the stain of his association with one of the most reviled hate groups in the nation's history.

Quote:

"It has emerged throughout my life to haunt and embarrass me and has taught me in a very graphic way what one major mistake can do to one's life, career, and reputation," Byrd wrote in a new memoir -- "Robert C. Byrd: Child of the Appalachian Coalfields"

-- that will be published tomorrow by West Virginia University Press.

The 770-page book is the latest in a long series of attempts by the 87-year-old Democratic patriarch to try to explain an event early in his life that threatens to define him nearly as much as his achievements in the Senate. In it, Byrd says he viewed the Klan as a useful platform from which to launch his political career. He described it essentially as a fraternal group of elites -- doctors, lawyers, clergy, judges and other "upstanding people" who at no time engaged in or preached violence against blacks, Jews or Catholics, who historically were targets of the Klan.

So why is his explanation of his past accepted without further argument?

Why does World War II reenactment = Nazi in one case, yet actual membership and participation in the KKK can be overlooked and forgotten so easily in another case?

Lott has the right to do his reenactments, however he should realize that his characterization and romanticism of the Nazi's SS has a negative impact. Previous comments in this thread have (#67 segovius and #70 FineTunes) and the website http://osi-speaks.blogspot.com/2010/...i+Speaks%21%29 reflect the fact that these guys weren't saints. Anyone who has studied history know of the Holocaust. Why you would want to glorify these murderers is anyone's guess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzguru

Why does World War II reenactment = Nazi in one case,

Or some 9/11 terrorist reenactment group flying model airplanes into mock ups of the World Trade Center and Pentagon, or dressing up as Jihad terrorist with make believe bombs strapped to their waist---then run for the Senate--not a good idea, especially in New York City.

無心The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey

[I]t is a groundbreaking exhibit that opened Friday in the the German capital and is intended to show Adolf Hitler's relationship with the German people.

Germany has produced exhibits on the Holocaust and Nazism before but never since World War II has one focused solely on the man who taught an entire nation to hate.

"Hitler and the Germans" is not about the fascist dictator's memorabilia, not about the man himself, said curator Hans-Ulrech Thamer. It's not about textbook history or scholarly writings.

The everyday objects on display show how Hitler won the heart of the German people.

Swastikas are banned in Germany but Thamer said museums have special permission to display them for historical purposes. Still, organizers of the show agonized over possible repercussions: inciting neo-Nazi extremists and infuriating the rest of the world.

A new study published this week in the German magazine Der Spiegel revealed far-right thoughts are common in Germany today. One-third of Germans said they would send foreigners home if there were not enough jobs to go around. One-sixth of Germans said Jews have too much influence.

Quote:

"Yes, we have had some objections," Thamer said. "One of the fears discussed in the newspapers is that this might promote extreme groups. But I am not sure they enter museums."

Quote:

Salberg said he did not believe an exhibit was likely to accelerate or motivate extreme viewpoints.

"People who have a xenophobic view of their society are not going to be any less or more xenophobic because of this exhibit," Salberg said.

Deborah Lipstadt, a scholar of the Holocaust, also felt such exhibits are important.

Quote:

"You understand that these things did not come out of nothing," said Lipstadt, who teaches at Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia. "There was a method to the madness."

She found powerful a similar exhibition of the power of Nazi propaganda at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington.

Some 55 million people died in World War II, including 6 million Jews who perished in the Nazi-orchestrated Holocaust.

Lott has the right to do his reenactments, however he should realize that his characterization and romanticism...Why you would want to glorify these murderers...

I haven't really followed this story (more important things to pay attention to). But is the act of re-enacting de facto "romanticizing" and "glorifying" them or is there something specific in the re-enactments that leads you to make that statement? And what are we to say about films that re-create (re-enact) realistic portrayals of events in which Nazis are central figures? For example the film "Conspiracy" was a re-enactment of a specific Nazi event. Does this film "romanticize" or "glorify" them? (Having seen the film, I'd argue not at all!)