If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

My experiment with foundationless

Last Saturday, I decided to test the claim that bees will draw out foundationless frames faster than foundation frames. I really didn't know what I was doing, so I just heated some wax and painted two coats on the top bar of two plain old medium frames.

Re: My experiment with foundationless

It sure is incredible. Thanks for the pics. I am going to give this a try, after I get some experience under my belt. I purchased frames with the rite-cell foundation from mannlake. I'm going to see how that goes, but am really liking the idea of comb honey and allowing the bees to go more natural. I just don't think I want to take on all of the wiring that seemed to be par for the course. But what you have here is wireless, right? No wires, no pins? Sorry, still learning

Re: My experiment with foundationless

Re: My experiment with foundationless

In one of the pics it appears there is fishing line in an X pattern through the frame. I use fishing line with foundationless to provide extra support. It's not necessary, but helps if the comb is not attached well on the sides and bottom.

Re: My experiment with foundationless

@Acebird, I have gone with all mediums. Definitely going to give this a try!
@Mike Gillmore, the fishing line does sound helpful... but I am, admittedly, just too darn lazy for the extra step! I suppose that the biggest risk comes into play during the dog days of summer when the wax is most soft.

Re: My experiment with foundationless

Yes, in the heat of the summer you should use caution when handling the frames. If the comb is not attached well on the sides and bottom, and the summer heat has the wax softened up, don't hold the frame parallel to the ground when inspecting or the whole comb could break off and fall right out of the frame. I learned this the hard way. The frame must be held perpendicular to the ground at all times.

Re: My experiment with foundationless

In one of the pics it appears there is fishing line in an X pattern through the frame.

Quite a set of eyes you have, Mike. Yes, this frame is wired. Like I said, I really don't have any experience with this and don't know what to expect as far as extraction goes. My extractor has a heavy screen that the frames press up against when it's spinning. I'm hoping that will prevent blowout, I dunno. The other foundationless frames in this box are not wired. I'll just have to experiment to see.

Acebird, you say you don't need wire for mediums. Do you mean that they will hold up during extraction or just inspection?

Re: My experiment with foundationless

I was going to say what is posted above. Mr Bush's web site states a lot about foundationless comb... the good, bad and ugly. I say ugly because somtimes your bees suck at building comb w/o foundation help.

Re: My experiment with foundationless

Except for the time it takes during assembly, just wondering if there is one good reason to NOT use wire?[/QUOTE]

Well, in the past I wired thousands of frames. This was a task task that I never enjoyed.

So I have tried not wiring and no foundation for the last 3 years. It sure is a lot easier prep; however, I've found that the bees raise huge numbers of drones in foundationless frames. Also I need to keep working the new frames in between combs already built to prevent them from 'doing their own thing', shall we say.

For me the more frequent inspections weren't too bad due to the fact that I have also been doing battle against mites AND the d@$!##d hive beetles.

FWIW, I think the index fingers have gotten bigger as I have often used them to smash the beetles that I have encountered on the top bars and hive cover.

Also, many combs get destroyed when I extract. Often the combs just fall out of the frames when turned sideways. The honey is there and needs to be harvested; however, many of them are not attached at the sides and bottom and therein lies the problem with extracting foundationless combs.

I have also leanred that honey squeezed from the combs is superior in quality to extracted honey. I am quite sure that this is the case.