Exhibit C
Gary M. Segura, Ph. D.
July 8, 2011
Page 1
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
-------------------------------------EDITH SCHLAIN WINDSOR, in her
capacity as Executor of the Estate
of CLARA SPYER,
Plaintiff,
-against-
10-CV-8435
THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
Defendant.
-------------------------------------(Caption continued on next page.)
DEPOSITION OF GARY MICHAEL SEGURA, Ph.D.
Gary M. Segura, Ph. D.
July 8, 2011
Page 2
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF CONNECTICUT
-------------------------------------JOANNE PEDERSEN & ANN MEITZEN,
GERALD V. PASSARO II,
LYNDA DEFORGE & RAQUEL ARDIN,
JANET GELLER & JOANNE MARQUIS,
SUZANNE & GERALDINE ARTIS,
BRADLEY KLEINERMAN & JAMES GEHRE, and
DAMON SAVOY & JOHN WEISS,
310 CV 1750
Plaintiffs,
(VLB)
v.
OFFICE OF PERSONNEL MANAGEMENT,
TIMOTHY F. GEITHNER, in his official
capacity as the Secretary of the Treasury,
and HILDA L. SOLIS, in her official
capacity as the Secretary of Labor,
MICHAEL J. ASTRUE, in his official
capacity as the Commissioner of the
Social Security Administration,
UNITED STATES POSTAL SERVICE, JOHN
E. POTTER, in his official capacity as
The Postmaster General of the United
States of America,
DOUGLAS H. SHULMAN, in his official
capacity as the Commissioner of Internal
Revenue,
ERIC H. HOLDER, JR., in his official
capacity as United States Attorney General,
JOHN WALSH, in his official capacity as
Acting Comptroller of the Currency, and
THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
Defendants.
--------------------------------------
Gary M. Segura, Ph. D.
July 8, 2011
Page 3
1
2
3
4
DEPOSITION OF GARY MICHAEL SEGURA,
5
Ph.D., an Expert Witness herein, taken by
6
Defendant, pursuant to Agreement, at the
7
offices of Paul Weiss Rifkind Wharton &
8
Garrison, LLP, 1285 Avenue of the Americas,
9
New York, New York, on Friday, July 8, 2011,
10
at 9:15 a.m., before Margaret Eustace, a
11
Shorthand Reporter and notary public, within
12
and for the State of New York.
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Gary M. Segura, Ph. D.
July 8, 2011
Page 14
1
G. Segura
2
questions that attorneys might choose to ask
3
me.
4
with counsel.
And I had a preparation session yesterday
5
6
MR. DUGAN:
answer?
7
8
9
10
Can you read back that
(Record read.)
Q.
What was the question that was posed
to you for your affidavit?
A.
The question I was asked to address
11
was the relative powerfulness or powerlessness
12
of gays and lesbians in the political system.
13
Q.
I want to ask about some of the
14
terminology you use in your affidavit,
15
throughout your affidavit you use the term gay
16
men or gays.
17
18
How do you define gay?
A.
I would define gay as an individual
19
who has primarily the same sex sexual
20
attraction and has adopted a public persona
21
consistent with that sexual attraction.
22
would distinguish it from homosexual or
23
homosexual acts, which I think is a more
24
complex undertaking.
25
Q.
And I
What -- how do you define homosexual?
Gary M. Segura, Ph. D.
July 8, 2011
Page 15
1
2
G. Segura
A.
So there is a broad class of
3
individuals who have same sex sexual
4
attraction.
5
sexual attraction alongside opposite sex
6
sexual attraction and they are generally
7
referred to as bisexual.
8
9
Some individuals have same sex
But people who have primarily same
sex sexual attraction fall into a number of
10
categories.
11
attraction and never act on it for whatever
12
reason, social convention, religious
13
upbringing, et cetera.
14
terms of orientation, homosexual, but they are
15
not engaging in homosexual acts and I would
16
not classify them as gay.
17
Some have same sex sexual
They would be, in
The second category is the more
18
technical one.
These are individuals who do
19
act on their same sex sexual attraction, but,
20
again, for whatever reason, choose not to
21
socially identify as a person of that sort or
22
that type.
23
for example, when looking at STD transmission
24
or HIV transmission, never refers to gay or
25
homosexual.
The Centers for Disease Control,
They refer to men having sex with
Gary M. Segura, Ph. D.
July 8, 2011
Page 16
1
G. Segura
2
men because that is the clinical activity that
3
they are interested in, whether or not those
4
individuals choose to identify publicly as a
5
gay person or to identify themselves in that
6
community.
7
For gay and lesbian, I am talking
8
about individuals who not only have same sex
9
sexual attraction and act on it but choose to
10
identify it as part of their life structure.
11
Q.
I think you hinted at it there, but
12
when you use the term lesbian, how do you
13
define it?
14
A.
15
16
A woman with primarily same sex
sexual attraction.
Q.
Do you know what percentage of the
17
American population is gay, lesbian or
18
bisexual?
19
20
21
MS. KAPLAN:
A.
Objection to form.
I do not know.
So the most recent report I have seen
22
puts the number between 3 and a half and 4
23
percent for gay men and lesbians.
24
research I have read to prior to the most
25
recent report suggests that the rate is uneven
The
Gary M. Segura, Ph. D.
July 8, 2011
Page 17
1
G. Segura
2
for men and women, that it might be more
3
common among men than women.
4
And for bisexuals, I am less
5
informed.
6
bisexuals.
7
Q.
8
9
I don't know the percentage of
Have you written any articles on the
question of gay and lesbian political power?
A.
I have written articles on gay and
10
lesbian issues, and in least in one instance
11
it was specifically on electoral opportunities
12
for gays and lesbians, so I guess that would
13
yes, but not around and abstract notion of
14
political power as that being the entire
15
purpose of the study.
16
17
18
Q.
Have you taught classes on gay and
lesbian political power?
A.
Yes.
So in the 1990s I taught a
19
class called either Politics and Homosexuality
20
or Gay and Lesbian Politics, the name was
21
different at different institutions.
22
And in that course, we considered in
23
depth whether or not gays and lesbians possess
24
sufficient political power to protect their
25
basic interests, so this was a very live topic

The Justia Federal District Court Filings & Dockets site republishes public litigation records retrieved from the US Federal District Courts. These filings and docket sheets should not be considered findings of fact or liability, and do not necessarily reflect the view of Justia.