Beg all you want, it doesn't matter. If you are ordered to pay "X" you pay "X". Lose your job you still have to pay "X". If you can't pay "X" you better march your ass to the courthouse and file for a hearing to explain why you can'y pay "X" and should instead pay "X-Y=Z". Simply losing your job may or may not be enough of a reason. The courts will make the call. Often times the call is "Well, go get another job. Or two. You have kids to feed."It's a harsh reality. You have kids, you must support them. Yes there are exceptions for disability, etc, but as a whole the court looks at your ability to pay as opposed to your actual earning. As an example if you have a civil engineering degree, but are working a drive-through for minimum wage the courts will find you "willfully under-employed", impute the average income of your field to you and send you on your way with a warning to not fall behind. Seen it done. Had it done.

/Kids are expensive//Condoms are cheap///Choose wisely, 18 years is a long time////2 kids, 3 step kids, made the right decision :-)

So, I owe, on paper, a metric arseload of back spousal support. No matter that the ex is getting 56% of my net income. What she *wants* amounts to 70% of my net income, and I just simply can't afford that and continue to live in a building, rather than a cardboard box.

The amount she *wants* is based on a legal and financial fiction. It was calculated based on my earnings from a job I no longer had when we split up--right at the time the economy was going south, and Nortel laid me off.

So, now, I have a job that pays me 50% less than I was making at Nortel, and I can't afford a lawyer to get things legally reduced, and she's indicated that she won't agree to that. I can't qualify for legal aid, because, well, I'm working. But I totally, utterly, don't have the cash-flow to support a $3K visit or two to court. So, I'm stuck "underpaying" my support every month, with the notional arrears mounting up.

Am I a deadbeat dad as a result? I don't think so. My ex gets more of my money than I do, and I'm servicing the communal debt while she sits on her fat ass and refuses to work. But if you looked at the amounts I owe in back spousal support, it could easily qualify for the kind of "shocking headline" we have before us. And in no way, shape, or form, am I a deadbeat dad or deadbeat ex husband.

I'm gonna cut your hand off. Now go make me a sandwich. The high white horse musings of the self proclaimed pious have never amounted to squat, either. I'm gonna guess you pat yourself on the back regularly for never having been beaten and sodomized in a concrete toilet by recidivist criminals because you're poor. : ) To be honest, neither have I but it's still a pretty piss poor society that would allow it, don't you think?

SearchN:tylerdurden217: xanadian: Ya know, it's funny when someone immediately jumps to the conclusion that just because he's a dude and owes child support that he must be a bad person.

Either submitter is trolling or is a woman.

Please describe a scenario in which a person avoids paying child support for years and is still a good person.

Easy enough.

A friend of mine met a woman. Went on a few dates, did the sexual thing with her, and then found out she was married. He dumped her immediately.

Few years goes by, and a man shows up at his door with a notice saying he needs to take a paternity test. He then finds out he has a 3 year old. During that time, he didn't know he had a child, but due to the test showing a match, he now owes back child support.

If somebody that deceptive and hateful did that to me, I would show up at her door. With a handgun and one bullet. And blow my own goddamn brains out all over her living room rug while she watched.

Why not? Something like that happens to you, and you live in a country with as screwed-up a family court system as ours, your life is over. Done. Finished. You don't get to even have an opinion about what's been ordered against you, let alone be allowed to argue your case. It's already been decided. It's the man's fault, the woman is always totally 100% honest, there are no mistakes anywhere, and anybody who even tries to defend himself is immediately and forever a despicable deadbeat dad. Go home, you lose, hand over all your money for the rest of your life.

Some godawful lying slut effectively ends my life, there's no reason to not just end it more quickly. If she has recurring nightmares about it, at least some kind of justice will have been served.

TrollingForColumbine:As someone who has owed as much as 10k in back child support, I can easily see how this person could be a good person and still owe back support. The mechanism for collecting child support are designed to favor the the custodial parent. So changing support is often cumbersome and expensive. Add on top of this the fact that changes in judgments do not always get communicated to the collecting operations or to the federal level where tax returns can be garnished. I have been through the mill on this several time in the state of illinois.

/has been current with support for many years//often the back support is due to court/state error and not non payment///I hope he give the mother of the child 2 million the child 4 and takes them on a cruise

yep. instead of jumping on him people should be encouraging the guy to finally make things right.all this hate probably has the opposite effect... i know it would on me.

Master Sphincter:Be afraid wealthy people. They are looking for a home in your neighborhood. [www.washingtonpost.com image 569x404]

Wouldn't it be really funny though if they were to move into some enclave with multi million $ mansions full of older white conservative Republican country club types? and regularly throw lavish loud parties for their friends from their old neck of the woods?

patchvonbraun:So, I owe, on paper, a metric arseload of back spousal support. No matter that the ex is getting 56% of my net income. What she *wants* amounts to 70% of my net income, and I just simply can't afford that and continue to live in a building, rather than a cardboard box.

The amount she *wants* is based on a legal and financial fiction. It was calculated based on my earnings from a job I no longer had when we split up--right at the time the economy was going south, and Nortel laid me off.

So, now, I have a job that pays me 50% less than I was making at Nortel, and I can't afford a lawyer to get things legally reduced, and she's indicated that she won't agree to that. I can't qualify for legal aid, because, well, I'm working. But I totally, utterly, don't have the cash-flow to support a $3K visit or two to court. So, I'm stuck "underpaying" my support every month, with the notional arrears mounting up.

Am I a deadbeat dad as a result? I don't think so. My ex gets more of my money than I do, and I'm servicing the communal debt while she sits on her fat ass and refuses to work. But if you looked at the amounts I owe in back spousal support, it could easily qualify for the kind of "shocking headline" we have before us. And in no way, shape, or form, am I a deadbeat dad or deadbeat ex husband.

/divorce laws, they are the suck

For three months of what you're paying in child support, I can make your wife problem "go away," if you catch my drift. She's gotta walk down a flight of stairs sometime, ya know? I can help you.

you are a puppet:I've found that guys with 5 kids who owe several years of back child support and buy lottery tickets are generally pretty responsible, so lets not jump to conclusions. Spending $2 on a powerball ticket instead of a condom doesn't make him bad, it makes him an American hero. BACK OFF.

Indeed. Impregnating multiple women and diverting that income to one's own lottery habit instead of helping out his children -- which is so bleeding hard for him to comprehend that the farking legal system had to get involved -- is the mark of a responsible man.

If I had my way his kids would get 1% of that apiece and the state would sieze the rest since the money was obtained while he was being a deadbeat.

over_and_done:SearchN: tylerdurden217: xanadian: Ya know, it's funny when someone immediately jumps to the conclusion that just because he's a dude and owes child support that he must be a bad person.

Either submitter is trolling or is a woman.

Please describe a scenario in which a person avoids paying child support for years and is still a good person.

Easy enough.

A friend of mine met a woman. Went on a few dates, did the sexual thing with her, and then found out she was married. He dumped her immediately.

Few years goes by, and a man shows up at his door with a notice saying he needs to take a paternity test. He then finds out he has a 3 year old. During that time, he didn't know he had a child, but due to the test showing a match, he now owes back child support.

If somebody that deceptive and hateful did that to me, I would show up at her door. With a handgun and one bullet. And blow my own goddamn brains out all over her living room rug while she watched.

Why not? Something like that happens to you, and you live in a country with as screwed-up a family court system as ours, your life is over. Done. Finished. You don't get to even have an opinion about what's been ordered against you, let alone be allowed to argue your case. It's already been decided. It's the man's fault, the woman is always totally 100% honest, there are no mistakes anywhere, and anybody who even tries to defend himself is immediately and forever a despicable deadbeat dad. Go home, you lose, hand over all your money for the rest of your life.

Some godawful lying slut effectively ends my life, there's no reason to not just end it more quickly. If she has recurring nightmares about it, at least some kind of justice will have been served.

1) If she insists without a condom or says she is on birth control and it's okay...big red flag2) Yes I realize that puts the responsibility on the guys and no it's not fair, but I also think that not being able to get my tubes tied without having kids first isn't fair either3)

Chach:If I had my way his kids would get 1% of that apiece and the state would sieze the rest since the money was obtained while he was being a deadbeat.

So, since the investment banks colluded to steal trillions of dollars and got rewarded with us paying what they stole and they blew the rest on Costa Rican hookers and Maybachs, we should get their banks and assets and 1% should to to pay their utility bills? Man, we will buy ANYTHING if it means we get to say "I'm a better man that THAT sonofab*tch". The real deadbeats eat out of our fridge and have 12,000,000.00 gated homes. Suckers.

Droog8912:kronicfeld:Maybe, but if he has no money and didn't move for a reduction then he has no one but himself to blame. And of course if he has no money through his own fault, then that's no excuse.

Being stupid doesn't make you a bad person; it just makes you stupid.

/He's playing the lotto, by definition he really isn't all that mathematically inclined

Bippal:As someone engaged to a person owed 7 grand in back support plus 10k in birthing costs getting a kick etc. But she's constantly getting the run around from the courts on getting him to pay anything. The judge even said once that the sperm donor would get special consideration because of a tour of duty in Iraq. Now here we sit, myself raising his kids, him taking off to oregon and knocking up an 18 year old, and us trying to get him to give up legal rights. Id rather him have nothing at all to do with them, it's not like he is anyways.

Sounds like you've chosen to get yourself into a really great situation with a truly brilliant lady! Way to put a ring on it!

News here said that he's not eligible for the payout until the backpayment is paid in full.

If I were in his shoes, here is what I would do:

1) Talk to a well-respected family-court lawyer and secure his services for future payment2) Talk to anybody that could loan me $29k immediately with a promise for future payment3) Pay the back-support payments4) Have lawyer prove to the lottery that the debt has been paid in full.5) Have lawyer file for full custody of all 5 kids6) Receive lump sum payment of lottery winnings7) Buy a house large enough to house all 5 kids in a neighborhood with a great school system8) Hire a well-respected financial planner/investment manager

NephilimNexus:I can see a guy who is given $338,000,000 and then throwing away half of it away in the name of instant gratification being exactly the sort of guy who would owe thirty grand in back child support.

Invested properly, the 1/2 of the award immediately is *far* better than taking the monthly payout for 20 years.

BunkoSquad:I wonder what the overlap is between the "sometimes men can't pay child support for reasons beyond their control" crowd and the "keeps your legs closed if you don't want kids, lady" crowd.

Not sure. But I can tell you the overlap of the "I'm offended by the keep your legs closed if you don't want kids, lady crowd" and the "Keep it in your pants if you don't want to be stuck with child support" crowd is about 100%

fickenchucker:foxyshadis: fickenchucker: I used to be harsh about this stuff, until a friend of mine was put through the wringer by the lazy twat he married.

Eh, nobody's perfect. He probably wasn't a saint either, and might have even had a clue about her beforehand. Hell, I asked a crazy latina to marry me, god knows if I don't end up in a ditch if I get divorced, I'll be lucky to escape with the shirt off my back. It'd be no one's fault but mine; even if I have complaints about her, I knew them before hand, so I can't cry ignorance.

Not many deserve the shiat they get, but the real world is a harsh mistress. We take our lumps and move on.

You're correct--he now admits he was infatuated and ignored the warning signs. And ignored all of his friends and family who tried to warn him, myself included.

He's pulled through the divorce well and loves his kids. He gets 50% of the time with the kids and looks for ways to get more, since the kids flat-out dislike their mom for breaking up the family. The ex is verging on dirt-poor because she is still too lazy to work, while he runs a fairly large IT department and was able to cut the alimony time short.

He makes over $150,000, and the child support he has to pay out is $28,800, which starts declining in a few years.

About the best you can ask for, all things considered. Hope the best for the kids.

Roman Fyseek:News here said that he's not eligible for the payout until the backpayment is paid in full.

If I were in his shoes, here is what I would do:

1) Talk to a well-respected family-court lawyer and secure his services for future payment2) Talk to anybody that could loan me $29k immediately with a promise for future payment3) Pay the back-support payments4) Have lawyer prove to the lottery that the debt has been paid in full.5) Have lawyer file for full custody of all 5 kids6) Receive lump sum payment of lottery winnings7) Buy a house large enough to house all 5 kids in a neighborhood with a great school system8) Hire a well-respected financial planner/investment manager

9) Hit up mom for support. Don't think it wouldn't happen to him if she had won.

A friend of mine met a woman. Went on a few dates, did the sexual thing with her, and then found out she was married. He dumped her immediately.

Few years goes by, and a man shows up at his door with a notice saying he needs to take a paternity test. He then finds out he has a 3 year old. During that time, he didn't know he had a child, but due to the test showing a match, he now owes back child support.

/Poor bastard. Both him and his child.

OK, that's a really good (albeit unfortunate) example. My original statement was a bit of a generalization and so I clarified a bit above with "A person might have many great qualities, but if they don't take care of their children's financial needs, that's a deal breaker for me. There are no doubt exceptions, but that's the rule"

You have presented an exception. He does have 3+15 years of financial responsibility, but he's not a deadbeat. This is definitely an exception.

Agreed. And honestly, I posted this as I walked into my house and I misread the original post so 'ill just fill that in..

...Please describe a scenario in which a person avoids paying child support for years and is still a good person...

My original post doesn't apply, he isn't avoiding it. He was just blind sided with it, and the few YEARS of it he owed.

SuperNinjaToad:Master Sphincter: Be afraid wealthy people. They are looking for a home in your neighborhood. [www.washingtonpost.com image 569x404]

Wouldn't it be really funny though if they were to move into some enclave with multi million $ mansions full of older white conservative Republican country club types? and regularly throw lavish loud parties for their friends from their old neck of the woods?

Just imagine the valet parking on the lawn... all those 20 something inch rims sparkling in the sun... spinning slowly in the breeze... the horror.

sammyk:kronicfeld: Slaxl: what_now: sammyk: Not everyone that owes back child support is a bad person subby.

If you've never been on the receiving end of family court you really do not know what you are talking about.

Ok, but he hasn't paid child support since 2009. So I'm ok with saying he's probably a bad person.

Perhaps he doesn't have any money?

Maybe, but if he has no money and didn't move for a reduction then he has no one but himself to blame. And of course if he has no money through his own fault, then that's no excuse.

It's not always that easy. I got behind by around 12k. See I was living in NJ while my case is in NC. I was very sick. So sick I needed a liver transplant. I could not work and I damn sure was in no shape to make the trip to NC. Not working meant I could not afford a lawyer to handle the case for me. The arrears just kept ticking up, up and away. The next time we went to court for an adjustment I had all the proof I needed to show I was a)incapable of working b)incapable of going to court for a reduction. None of that mattered. The only person that can forgive that debt is my twat of an ex and she never will.

DON'T STICK YOUR DICK IN CRAZY ...

It's amazing to me how many guys biatch about child support, but didn't think about that while plowing the insanity into the mattress ... 'tards, the whole lot of ya!

I'm a horrible human being. I won't lie. But it's not because I pay child support.

in Fall of 2011, at the start of the semester, I received a letter from the Texas OAG explaining that I needed to submit for paternity testing as I may be someone's father. Fantastic. Phone call negotiation, testing, and a court trial, and it turns out I am.

My son was 3 years old at the time the letter reached me. The mother had never contacted me to inform me I have a son. After the trial she told me (out front of the courthouse), "Didn't you get the email? I sent you an email a year ago!"

An email. From her hotmail. Which probably went to my spam box. And that was well over a year after he was born.

We used protection- I wore a condom.

It's easy to say someone is bad because they pay or owe child support, but as a single male that pays his, and paid all his arrears for three years off a college students budget (many scholarships went into that), I'll say that it's a dubious logic, and rightly bullshiat.

Further, until recently, the Texas OAG has yet to respond to two (2) certified letters stating that the mother refuses to uphold my visitation rights. She still violates them. I didn't see him but one (1) time until this January. The various Attorney General's offices only see males as Wallets. We're the wallets.

So he's behind $29,000. OK, he's also living in a shiat-sty. Are people that pay child support expected to give every last penny? Does anyone *really* believe $750 a month goes directly into my *less-than-half* portion of raising my son, when child care is free, and I pay for all medical? That's more than I live off a month, and I'm a full time college student, with two medical conditions. We po' here.

Because a lottery ticket is like one damned dollar and probably the cheapest form of entertainment on the planet, so it's exactly the kind of thing you do for entertainment when you don't have money?

Cheapest? Hardly. Not in practice anyway. The average American household with an income of under $13,000 spends about $645 a year on lottery tickets [link]. That's probably a lot more than any other entertainment expense that doesn't involve drugs or hookers.

Because a lottery ticket is like one damned dollar and probably the cheapest form of entertainment on the planet, so it's exactly the kind of thing you do for entertainment when you don't have money?

Cheapest? Hardly. Not in practice anyway. The average American household with an income of under $13,000 spends about $645 a year on lottery tickets [link]. That's probably a lot more than any other entertainment expense that doesn't involve drugs or hookers.

Holy shiat balls ... I think I might buy $20 of lotto tickets a year on a heavy year that has a few huge jackpots ... people actually spent an AVERAGE of $645/year ... holy balls ...

Skyrmion:Cheapest? Hardly. Not in practice anyway. The average American household with an income of under $13,000 spends about $645 a year on lottery tickets [link]. That's probably a lot more than any other entertainment expense that doesn't involve drugs or hookers.

Because he fathered five children. When you do that, when you make the conscious decision to have your own farking basketball team, you support them.

Drewrogatory did not ask "why should he pay a dime?", they asked "why should he pay a dime more than he owes?"If he owes X in child support for the children he fathered (after getting a paternity test) then that's what he should pay now that he has the money, not X+$$$ because you think he should.Reading comprehension can be a very good thing.

These CS threads both depress and annoy me. Half of you farkers don't know what you're talking about, and the other half make assumptions that predispose you to a half-cocked snap judgment that has nothing to do with the reality of the situation. What entitles you to judge that person? Especially based on the couple of facts in TFA.

Any child support situation is a bad deal all around, that's the bottom line. Without a doubt the system is biased and flawed; that doesn't automatically mean that anyone who owes back CS has been shafted by the system any more than the simple fact of owing CS makes him/her a "deadbeat."

Every situation is different. One thing that we as individuals can do better than the courts is keep an open mind, try to be supportive of both sides in one of these situations. But instead, it's like people are worse than the courts. Like I said, it both depresses and annoys me.

Roman Fyseek:NephilimNexus: I can see a guy who is given $338,000,000 and then throwing away half of it away in the name of instant gratification being exactly the sort of guy who would owe thirty grand in back child support.

Invested properly, the 1/2 of the award immediately is *far* better than taking the monthly payout for 20 years.

Also, if you don't expect to live for 20 more years, there's little reason to not get control of as much of the payout as possible.

Wodan11:These CS threads both depress and annoy me. Half of you farkers don't know what you're talking about, and the other half make assumptions that predispose you to a half-cocked snap judgment that has nothing to do with the reality of the situation. What entitles you to judge that person? Especially based on the couple of facts in TFA.

Any child support situation is a bad deal all around, that's the bottom line. Without a doubt the system is biased and flawed; that doesn't automatically mean that anyone who owes back CS has been shafted by the system any more than the simple fact of owing CS makes him/her a "deadbeat."

Every situation is different. One thing that we as individuals can do better than the courts is keep an open mind, try to be supportive of both sides in one of these situations. But instead, it's like people are worse than the courts. Like I said, it both depresses and annoys me.

Are you trying to say that we, as a culture, should direct ourselves to reflective, critical thought and open mindedness and compassion? Wait, WWE RAW is on. Later.

puffy999:Most people who win the lottery have something going against them. If they have no criminal or legal foibles, they generally fall into one of two categories: gambling addicts or greedy excess spenders with too much money already, but think they need more for some idiotic reason. I highly doubt this man fell into the latter category (though clearly he has legal financial trouble), considering nearly everywhere a person who has a job will be required to, eventually, pay child support unless he goes from job to job and literally either makes nothing or is paid under the table.

So, yeah, now this man will not only EASILY be able to pay off his debts, but his child will be taken care of.

Here comes the part where, because this is the US, someone will now say that a) his child support should be increased to a million bucks a year, and/or b) the mother of said child deserves some of this lottery windfall because she had to deal with the financial pain and suffering of not receiving his money, while simultaneously, if her luck is down and out, receiving literally every single legal allowable financial government benefit under the sun, assuming the child is under 18.

/most people don't argue in favor of the final paragraph above//my experience is from that of the child going through the divorce, though an older teenager, so some of the above has applied to me///dad should have been out on his ass, not mom

Maybe not a million bucks a year, but an increase of child support should happen. If it was me, I'd pay off the 29K and then negotiate with the ex-wife directly in order to keep the state out of it, because if the state gets involved it gets expensive and hardly anybody gets any money.