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HI I am a gay male who has never bottomed, I have only ever been a Top. I almost always use a condom but have had occasions where i did not.recently i was traveling in Mexico for two weeks in a three week period. and began developing what seemed as a sun rash on my shoulders and chest. When i returned the second time to Mexico the following time the rash slowly progressed. small reddish marks. When i returned from Mexico the rash became more severe. and i began to get the chills mild fever and my throat became inflamed white pussy tonsils it burned to eat and drink. I went to the Dr. he prescribed Biaxin a very strong antibiotic. The rash vanished in a day the rash was present for almost 4 weeks. (my Dr first though Scarlet Fever and then Dengue Fever. I began getting extreme headaches in the morning and my back was extremely sensitive to touch. While I still had these flu like symptoms my Dr ordered an HIV test. The test results returned and I Tested reactive for Antigen, I tested Reactive For the EIA and the supplemental. But i tested nonreactive for the Western Blot. According to my Dr this still is a negative test.So I am now getting a 2nd test done including another Western Blot and a PCR.Professionals or anybody with some knowledge or similar experience please help I am freakin out. Also I have now started having severe night sweats that started after all the other symptoms subsided.

« Last Edit: January 13, 2007, 02:53:15 PM by HIV? poz about being neg »

False positives are not an unheard of thing. A variety things can cause a false positive (for example, Lyme Disease, Lupus, Syphilis, etc) on an ELISA--a very sensitive test, that is why it is followed up with a more specific confirmatory test--the Western Blot. You didn't mention which PCR test (RNA or DNA) was ordered, but realize the potential for false positives are high there as well. You also didn't mention the timeline in what you tested after your last unprotected exposure. Assuming you tested at least 3 months after your last unprotected exposure--no other exposures since then, then you can be confident in the results being a false positive. That said, I definitely agree with repeating your ELISA/Western Blot.

In addition to what Rod said, you can only conclusively test negative 3 months after your last unprotected exposure. In reality, an ELISA/Western Blot is enough in terms of testing. But also realize that BOTH must be positive for you to be considered HIV positive. So assuming you keep testing this way, you can safely assume your ELISA is false positive.

Anyhow, since you admit to having unprotected sex, have you done a full STD panel? Other STDs are much easier to get than HIV, so you need to get the full picture.

Thank you for your responses, another question how great are the chances that the Non reactive test for the western blot i had done are incorrect given the 4 week period since last sexual encounter and the positive EIA?

I don't have any statistics for you. You tested too early after your last unprotected sex episode. You need to test out to at least 3 months later. Only then can you really know what is going on HIV-wise. If by then you are still testing with a reactive ELISA and negative Western Blot, you can be sure you are a false positive. The only way you can be confirmed positive is if your Western Blot becomes positive, which one cannot say without more testing. Anyhow, more testing is definitely needed in your case. So I wish right now I could tell for sure what it is, but you don't conclusively know anything yet. As I said before, make sure you get a FULL STD panel as well.

The soonest you should test again with an ELISA is six weeks, as the vast majority of people who have actually been infected will seroconvert and test positive on both the ELISA and Western Blot by this time. A negative result at six weeks is unlikely to change, but MUST be confirmed at the three month point.

The only PCR testing approved for diagnostic use is the RNA PCR - and even then it is a piece of the puzzle and not a stand-alone diagnosis. A positive RNA PCR test still must be confirmed by both a positive ELISA and a positive Western Blot.

As you have been told, a DNA PCR test is NOT approved for diagnostic use as they have a high rate of false positives.

ANY hiv test (including the RNA) has the potential for false positive results - that's why a positive result is never conclusive on the strength of one type of test result alone.

Don't assume you are positive just yet. Wait for the conclusive confirmation one way or the other. In the meantime, try to remain productively busy. All the worry in the world won't change your results one way or the other.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Thanks so much for all your info... So if we speak chance only are the chances of me being infact positive greater then the chance of me being negative by the time period i mentioned? With the results i had from the first tests? and taking into consideration the symptoms i have had?

« Last Edit: January 14, 2007, 01:28:34 AM by HIV? poz about being neg »

Great so i just need alittle more help understanding things. I have had all those symptoms followed by night sweats that I have had for a week now. I had an HIV test taken while I am obviously suffering from a virus of some type the results come back Antigen reactive EIA reactive supplemental EIA reactive but the western Blot non reactive.But the chances are greater of me infact being negative? I am having the PCR test and Western Blot test done on Monday. What other possabilities are there and what other things could contribute to the symptoms I am having and the test result I had?

Please do PM anyone with questions. All your questions and concerns need to be placed in your thread.

Symptoms or lack of is no indication of an ARS illness or the ability to diagnosis HIV. The only way to tell is 12/13 weeks post exposure test. If your test comes back positive for the ELISA test and NEG on the Western Blot then you will be conclusively NEGATIVE. Drop the PCR testing, that will be one less test you have to pay for. Apparently you have not received the lab bill from the first PCR test.

ARS symptoms, if they happen in a noticeable way at all, usually occur between two and four weeks after the infection has taken place. Your doctor has given your two possible explanations for your symptoms; has this been followed through with further testing for these illnesses? You only mention being tested for hiv.

It is unclear from your posts when your last incident of unprotected intercourse occurred - and most importantly, when was the last unprotected incident in relation to your hiv testing. Please give us this information so we can advise you more accurately.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

alittle over 4 weeks prior to the test was the last sexual encounter. I had a mono test negative and strep also negative a throat swab. apparently that eliminates that it was Scarlett fever or bacterial infection. As for the Dengue fever no tests where done for this.When the Dr first seen my symptoms the initial unconfirmed diagnosis was Scarlett fever.

Ann I hope this helps abit the last sexual encounter was 4 weeks before my first HIV test as of this Monday it will be 6 weeks that is when the next test will be done.

also wanted to add not sure it makes a difference or not but the last symptom I have is night sweats which are clearly reducing in severity.

If your ELISA returns a positive result again this week, if you are indeed positive, the Western Blot should also return a positive result by this time. If the Western Blot comes back negative again, then you are most likely hiv negative but this will need to be confirmed again at the three month point.

It is entirely possible that the illness you experienced was something other than hiv, but caused the sensitive ELISA to show (false) positive. It is also possible that you have an underlying condition you are not aware of (yet), such as an autoimmune disease, that is causing false positive ELISAs. Hopefully you will know one way or the other this week. If the doctor still wants to do a PCR, make sure the RNA PCR test is used. Your situation IS a situation where RNA PCR testing would be appropriate.

I want you to be aware that I am not factoring your symptoms into any of this. Symptoms or even the lack of symptoms mean absolutely nothing when it comes to hiv infection - only the tests can tell you your status. The fact that you had a negative Western Blot means that there is still a chance that you are hiv negative - but as you know, it is still too early to confirm your status one way or another with reliability.

Hang in there - I hope this weeks testing brings some clarity to the situation. If you have another positive ELISA but negative Western Blot, it may be a good idea to test for the presence of autoimmune or rheumatoid disease. Your doctor should know the appropriate test for these common conditions.

By the way, it is the throat culture for strep that is used to rule out Scarlet Fever. However, it does sometimes happen that the strep test comes back negative, even though strep is present. Sometimes throat swabs miss strep.

Hang in there and try to be patient and calm. It will be easier if you keep yourself busy and off the internet.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

alittle over 4 weeks prior to the test was the last sexual encounter. I had a mono test negative and strep also negative a throat swab. apparently that eliminates that it was Scarlett fever or bacterial infection. As for the Dengue fever no tests where done for this.When the Dr first seen my symptoms the initial unconfirmed diagnosis was Scarlett fever.

Ann I hope this helps abit the last sexual encounter was 4 weeks before my first HIV test as of this Monday it will be 6 weeks that is when the next test will be done.

also wanted to add not sure it makes a difference or not but the last symptom I have is night sweats which are clearly reducing in severity.

Not that this means much but when i was worried i had been infected with hiv for 2 weeks i had night sweats and sometimes it was all over my body, once i got my negative results the sweats went away the first night. so these night sweats your having could be caused by the stress and anxiety over this issue your having, anxiety and stress can cause night sweats.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Please keep all your thoughts or questions in your own thread only. Thank you for your cooperation.

Ann

Why? in this not a forum for discussing with other people. what did i say that should be placed in my own theard please tell me? I thought this is a place to help people and share experiences i thought my experience with night sweats might be comforting to this person so i posted.

So from what i gather is you post your questions and concerns here and only a selected few are allowed to respond? is this what this site has turned into please advise?

The Am I forum is different to the rest of the AIDSmeds forums. This forum is not for "sharing experiences". It is for risk assessment and testing advice and you are not in any position to give either. There are other websites out there that allow the kind of interaction you are looking for, we do not.

Please do not hijack this thread further. If you want to continue this discussion, return to your own thread.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

The Epstein-Barr Virus (EBV) is NOT herpes, although it is in the herpes family. Herpes is herpes simplex, or HSV. EBV causes what is known in lay-man's terms as mono or glandular fever.

I don't think all the specific different causes of false positive tests are known. The ones I listed are the ones we do know, but there are others because people do get false positive results with no obvious cause.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Thank you so much Ann and everybody else who has given me there time and patience. As i said I go for the 2ND tests tomorrow. and then wait for the results I will let you know what comes of those results praying it is once again negative then wait another month or so and go for a 3rd test.

Once again thank you guys so much for all your help this really is a wonderful thing you are doing.

Do try to keep busy and focus your mind on other things in the meantime. I know this from experience. Every time I have my blood drawn for the purpose of keeping track of my hiv infection, I have to wait six weeks for the results. If I worried about those results during that time, I'd drive myself crazy with anxiety. Keep busy and the time will go much faster.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

I went in today for the 2ND set of tests it was a horrible experience as the lab once again nearly gave me the wrong tests the only test they had planned to give me was a PCR DNA test and because of all the helpful information i got from all of you on that type of test I contacted my DR. and argued that the tests i needed was the western blot EIA and Antigen.And turns out that's what the DR. wanted as well. THANK YOU GUYS SO MUCH!

So the tests i got this time where the DNA PCR The EIA the Antigen and the Western Blot.Also they said they where testing for viral load as well? What test is that?

You did not need and no one here told you to get a PCR DNA test. PCR DNA is not a diagnostic test. You didn't need a VL test. You didn't the antigen test nor the Western Blot. You better hope that your insurance company will foot the bill. That was a lot of unnecessary testing.

The PCR is the viral load test, but you needed the RNA, not the DNA. The DNA has a high rate of false positives and is not approved for diagnostic purposes. The RNA test is approved for diagnostic purposes, when it is used in conjunction with the ELISA. I told you this several times above.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Oh yes ANN i realise that I wanted the RNA but i was most concerned now after a month that the western blot be done again all the other ones i understand are able to give false positives but the western blot is the one that gives you confirming results right?

False positives are not an unheard of thing. A variety things can cause a false positive (for example, Lyme Disease, Lupus, Syphilis, etc) on an ELISA--a very sensitive test, that is why it is followed up with a more specific confirmatory test--the Western Blot. You didn't mention which PCR test (RNA or DNA) was ordered, but realize the potential for false positives are high there as well. You also didn't mention the timeline in what you tested after your last unprotected exposure. Assuming you tested at least 3 months after your last unprotected exposure--no other exposures since then, then you can be confident in the results being a false positive. That said, I definitely agree with repeating your ELISA/Western Blot.

Any hiv test can give a false positive, but the DNA ones are more prone to them.

At the six week point, which you are at, if you are indeed postitive the ELISA and the WB would both come back positive. If the WB is negative again, you most likely are negative, but this will have to be confirmed at the three month point.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

If your ELISA returns a positive result again this week, if you are indeed positive, the Western Blot should also return a positive result by this time. If the Western Blot comes back negative again, then you are most likely hiv negative but this will need to be confirmed again at the three month point.

It is entirely possible that the illness you experienced was something other than hiv, but caused the sensitive ELISA to show (false) positive. It is also possible that you have an underlying condition you are not aware of (yet), such as an autoimmune disease, that is causing false positive ELISAs. Hopefully you will know one way or the other this week. If the doctor still wants to do a PCR, make sure the RNA PCR test is used. Your situation IS a situation where RNA PCR testing would be appropriate.

I want you to be aware that I am not factoring your symptoms into any of this. Symptoms or even the lack of symptoms mean absolutely nothing when it comes to hiv infection - only the tests can tell you your status. The fact that you had a negative Western Blot means that there is still a chance that you are hiv negative - but as you know, it is still too early to confirm your status one way or another with reliability.

Hang in there - I hope this weeks testing brings some clarity to the situation. If you have another positive ELISA but negative Western Blot, it may be a good idea to test for the presence of autoimmune or rheumatoid disease. Your doctor should know the appropriate test for these common conditions.

By the way, it is the throat culture for strep that is used to rule out Scarlet Fever. However, it does sometimes happen that the strep test comes back negative, even though strep is present. Sometimes throat swabs miss strep.

Hang in there and try to be patient and calm. It will be easier if you keep yourself busy and off the internet.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Separate question as a gay circumcised male who only tops and has done so on occasion's with out a condom, but always using proper lubricant are his chances of getting HIV much less likely, as HIV is apparently difficult to transmit. Cause some of the HIV pamphlets I read state that as a Top your chances are significantly less of getting HIV..is this proper information?

Until you have entered into a monogamist relationship and you've both tested together, always use a condom. Yes it is said that the risk is a little lower, and being circumcised it helpful, but are you willing to take the chance when you know that you can contract HIV via anal sex?

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts