"...our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor."

Submitted by Ross Elliot on Tue, 2006-07-04 01:28

So pledged the Founding Fathers.

And, they meant it.

The fifty-six signers of the Declaration of Independence had everything to lose. They were professional men. Wealthy men. Landowners. Many with close ties to Britain. Many with families dear to them. Young like Edward Rutledge, 26, or older like Ben Franklin, 70.

And, they knew full-well, as they inked their names on the burlap, that they were signing their own death warrants. Their actions—their very thoughts—were seditious and punishable by execution.

Yet, they signed.

They signed because the Declaration was about more than colonial self-governance. It was properly about the moral cause—the right—of individual prerogative. The right to live free from the unwarranted jurisdiction of the state, the church, or your neighbour. The right to live for yourself, to strike out in pursuit of your own happiness, to be unfettered by the whim of a monarch or the majority rule of a community.

The Founding Fathers stood up for this and much more. These were great men who created the greatest civilisation the world has ever witnessed. They made a pledge to each other and to themselves. And, they kept it.

Its now or never, Rex. Clearly present your facts and your ideal system of government, integrated from the FACTS of reality and the nature of man, or get out of the business already!

What facts have you presented? You say many things that are not backed up by observable facts. You distort American culture and politics wihthout presenting tangible evidence and you refuse to use actual logic or reason rather than what you think are brilliant catch phrases.

America should not be a a democrasy or a Democracy. It should be a nation whose laws are based in individual rights.

Get the FACTS straight! You should start by learning the truth. Try reading some history (and not the distortions & lies you have apperently fallen for). Then get a book on logic and read some Philosophy. Study the reasons behind the American system and human Liberty! And then you can try thinking in terms of principles rather than empty, pointless catch phrases (catch phrases are the mark of a pseudo-intellectual).

America is and should be built on the principles of Liberty.

What principles do you propose that would create the ideal governement as you see it, Rex? You havent proposed anything but destorying religion, as if that is the answer to all our problems. What about atheists bent on Fascism or Socialism, such as yourself? Why should I want to follow YOUR rules? Are they logical just because you are an atheist? You want to convince people you are right yet you dont bother to communicate clearly or argue from first principles. You dont even know what that means!

The American Founders created the first free nation. They based it in principles derived from self-evident FACTS about the nature of man.

What system will you create based on FACTS, Rex?

Identify those FACTS and then integrate them into principles. Then present your ideal system of government. Anything else is 1984 style Newspeak.

Craig,so I'm not real then I take it?I'm not backing up my arguments with facts you say.I'v spent a lot of time working on a way forward,the fact that you can't see the value in what I say doesn't realy cause me to loose any sleep.The point that I'v had tried to make is that we can and need to stop thinking that religion does us no harm.Ofcourse it does us harm,most of the wars are about religion.I don't think any country has got it perfect,not even close.I certainly don't see America as being the closest thing we have to a democrasy!any vote in America includes the 90% of you who are crazy,thats not a democrasy I would like to live in.

Since so many people were and much of it was dependant on the core cast advertisers were willing to pay a the cost of producing and broadcasting the show in exchange for small blocks of advertisements for their products, which since they knew the show was so popular, meant that awareness of their products would reach high levels of cultural awareness due to the high fanbase of the show and this would transalate into higher sales of their products in turn.

This leads to more jobs, advertisers, actors seeking breaks, manufacturers to produce the products which will now likely have higher sale rates, vendors, retail outlets... etc.

This coupled with the fact that there were people every week who felt happy about being able to wittness the execution of humorous material and engaging soap opera storylines.

The stars of Friends CREATED WEALTH. They deserved every penny of their salary.

Rex, you wrote: "America is the most,the country that produces the most pollution,"

Yeah, you wrote that. Don't mind answering you, either. Hope you don't mind, in turn, reading the words of a real atheist, someone who actually recognizes and engages reality.

America, if it produces the most pollution, does so because it produces the most of everything else on the friggin' planet. I would imagine that Germany and Britain and Japan would be close on our heels, and that Albania and North Korea, on the other hand, might come in dead last.

Interesting question, Rex, isn't it? I mean, what do they produce? We know that Albania produces dead bodies from mafia wars and vendettas. We know that North Korea produces low-order methane from the ordure of folk surviving on tree bark and food aid from China. Anything else?

Oh, right: America produces television shows that people actually like. I can't recall, off the top of my head, the last 20 Albanian or North Korean or Cuban TV shows that touched a worldwide audience -- but it must just be me, middle-aged senile. I mean, "Juche: The Price is Right" must surely be viewed wherever plasma TV sets abide. "Great Leader Gives a Speech," now was that one Cuban or North Korean? See, I'm so lost here...

So now we know what pisses you off almost as much as God: the incomes of entertainers. What a truly deep thinker you have proven yourself to be. And all without learning to type!

Now, "facts" seem to be something with which you, Rex, are not particularly concerned.

For example, the difference and distinction between comma and apostrophe in communication. Ain't there in most of your posts, Rex. Ain't there at all. And when it is, on occasion, there, it's entirely random. Just hit whatever fuckin' key may be there when the ol' finger descends, and BOOM!, another Rex masterpiece posted to the internet!

Just why, Rex, are you an atheist? What did God ever do to piss you off? Did he force touch-typing lessons on you as a young lad? Or spelling? Did he try to force you to read Economics in One Lesson?

There are real people, here, Rex, making real arguments, and presenting those arguments with facts to back them up. Ross is one of them. Marnee is another. You, on the other hand, have not once presented anything beyond "I'm smart, and God pisses me off!" and "America is almost as bad as God!"

America is the most,the country that produces the most pollution,and for the members of the tv show friends to end up getting $1,ooo,ooo an episode is obcene to the extreme.I believe the gap between the rich and the poor is getting bigger,how has America addressed this,?

My description of America as the greatest civilisation was not a compliment—it is a fact.

Rex, you're not really an atheist. You've replaced god-worshipping with state-worshipping. You've simply substituted the fantasy world of religion for the irrationality of socialism. And both are the same in that they rely upon credulity, gullibility and faith, which you seem to possess in spades.

Rex, you are full of misinformation and ignorance. First off, the top 10% of earners in America account for over half of the country's tax revenues. The top 50% account for over 95% tax revenues. I therefore have no idea on what basis you make the claim that the poor pay most of the tax...sounds to me like you're just uncritically regurgitating socialist propaganda.

The Founders and other Enlightenment thinkers paved the way for those aspects of Western civilization which are still great. A great civilization is in fact judged by the degree it permits individuals to peacefully pursue their own interests and passions without interference from others. Further judgement and evaluation of a given civilization can be made by looking at to what extent that freedom results in tangible improvements in the overall quality of life and standard of living for that civilization. When you consider how so many amazing things came into being such as increased life expectancy, space exploration, the Internet, telephones, electricity, flight (etc, etc, etc) --- do you honestly think these advances have nothing to do with Western civilization???

Well thats a prety big compliment Ross,I would be more inclined to look at some of the ancient greek civilisations as the greatest because they rose above the ignorance of the time to create civilisation from superstitious madness.The Americans on the other hand were more about taking from the poor to feed the rich,most of the tax is paid by the poor who do most of the work for the least of the rewards.Great civilisations they say are judged by how they treat their sick and their poor.To pusrue your own wealth and ignore the needs of others may be your ideal but it's not mine.

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The opinions expressed here are the unmoderated views of the contributors who express them.They do not necessarily reflect the views of other contributors, or of SOLO, and do not necessarily align with Objectivism.