Hi,
John was talking about “word” document with wishes and requirements, but I can’t find it. Can you please upload it. :)

SN

Brad W

First of all, great house!

From having just a quick look, you have two choices: 1. expand the kitchen into the mud room or 2. redo the kitchen in place.

I would vote to redo the kitchen as it stands keeping the penisula to maintain the connection to the living space and replacing the cabinets, counters and especially the appliances.

http://profiles.google.com/srdan.nad Srdan Nagy

Brad WYes, The house looks really good. I love the woodwork, it looks great…
About the kitchen, yes, there is not a lot you can do that doesn’t involve a lot of work….

O, Yes, few questions for Nancy and Sam:
_What is right of the dining room, behind those double doors?
_I guess you use the mudroom a lot, what else is there besides a bench and a small closet? Can we do something with that space, or should it stay as is?

tnx

SN

P.S. John & Matthew, great to see these workshops back on slowhome…. :)Brad WYes, The house looks really good. I love the woodwork, it looks great…About the kitchen, yes, there is not a lot you can do that doesn’t involve a lot of work…. O, Yes, few questions for Nancy and Sam:_What is right of the dining room, behind those double doors?_I guess you use the mudroom a lot, what else is there besides a bench and a small closet? Can we do something with that space, or should it stay as is? tnxSNP.S. John & Matthew, great to see these workshops back on slowhome…. :)

John Brown

Good Morning Everyone,
Apologies for not including the brief in the original set of posted documetns (thanks SN).

John

Nancy & Sam

To the right of the Dining Room is a covered outdoor Dining Terrace with indirect lighting for night. We use it alot.

The mud “space” (assuming you mean the area to the left of the kitchen) has a washer, dryer, rack for pots and pans, trash can, small cabinet, and space enough to walk through.

We are open to all suggestions.

Oscar B. Morales

Hello Nancy and Sam,

Thank you for sharing additional information on your property. I don’t know much about the Architect Phil Hallock, but his plan is reminiscent of Frank Lloyd Wrights, Usonian Houses, which I am fond of.

I do have some additional questions:

- What is the make up of the family? How many, how old, pets, hobbies other than canning and gardening?
- Is the dining terrace a covered exterior space?
- Is the only direct access to your yard from your kitchen through your laundry room and then by the carport?
- Are the laundry room appliances stacked or side to side?
- Since you own the adjacent parcel and there is a structure there, how is that structure used, i.e.; storage of yard equipment, canned goods a studio.
- Does your house have a basement or is it a slab on grade situation. Where is your mechanical space?
- My wife does canning and we require a good amount of space to store our canned goods along with other dry goods that we like to keep in storage, where do you store your canned goods.
- If you do sell how soon before you sell and is this because of life style change.

I agree with Brad W and Srdan Nagy, redo kitchen in place, expand into laundry space or do nothing. I will be however doing a sketch doing the expansion into the Laundry area; of course, I will go under the assumption that you will enjoy the space or the next ten years.

Oscar

Nancy & Sam

Hi Oscar,

Lots of pertinent questions, We will do our best.

Philip F. Hallock was reportedly one of the undocumented early students at Taliesin West. He later taught Architecture at Penn State for 37 years beginning in the late 30′s. This was his hometown and he came back to show his skill in 1951 by designing this house for the son of the local Pharmacist. We purchased this house directly from that first owner in October 2008. The house is indeed Usonian inside and out.

Family – two adults. No pets. We are Photographers and Painters.

Dining Terrace is covered with indirect lighting.

There are five entrances to the yard, three to the back yard.

The washer and dryer are side by side – otherwise they would block the light from the large window.

Half the structure holds a small wood shop and framing studio and additional storage for two freezers, canning jars and equipment. The other half a car, yard furniture and equipment.

No basement. The house sits on a cement slab with in floor radiant heat.

Mechanical space is located in a small room off the hall by the living room behind the fireplace.

The hall is lined with wonderful bookcases and cabinets. Canned goods are stored in these cabinets at the cooler end of the hall.

The area is changing significantly. The amount of time until we sell depends on market values and the pace of industrialization.

We’ll be happy to answer any other questions. If there is anything else we can do, just ask.

Nancy & Sam

http://profiles.google.com/srdan.nad Srdan Nagy

HiSo I made two options for you, I will explain them in detail:
Option 1
Going along what Brad W suggested, I only changed cabinets and rearranged all the kitchen elements.
_Sink is moved to the center, and the corner cabinets can be solved by using special corner cabinets like this one: http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S39855969 or http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S19886250
_Dish washer goes somewhere beneath or on the side of the cook top.
_Oven and microwave go to left or right of the fridge.

Here are the +&- of this option:
+This will be cheap to make, you just need to replace cabinets… …you can buy them in Ikea, Those cabinets are really cheap and practical… and they look good.
+Because you spent little on this kitchen, you will get that money back when you sell the house…. ….but if you spend a small fortune for the kitchen, value of your house will not increase by same amount.

-I am not sure this addresses all your problems….
-mud room / laundry is not well defined area…. why not try to do something about that…

SN

http://profiles.google.com/srdan.nad Srdan Nagy

ok,Here is my option 2
So, this needs a bit of construction, the good thing is, it is just moving some partition walls, pluming remains in place.
This is only a first sketch, so I will also tell you what else we can do based on this option….
_Along the wall facing that great “working garden” of yours, I placed a continuous counter. Its function changes from left where you have a small breakfast area (can be used as a laptop/office area); to the central cooking area, and extends to the dining room, there it is used as a serving area
_A nice utility area is created in the hallway behind the kitchen. There you can have a washer-drier and all additional storage space you need.

here are the +&- of this option:
+Clean lines of the kitchen compliment the house better
+I believe this option is more practical

-You sad that you don’t like to see into kitchen…

SN

http://profiles.google.com/srdan.nad Srdan Nagy

ok,I made another one:
This one is much better, utility/laundry area is enclosed, I changed the doors to pocket doors, and removed that doors to the hallway.
Other thing is that I moved cook top to the other side so you can have floor to ceiling cabinets on side where the fridge is. The oven and the microwave are also there.

So, tell me which one is the best, and I’ll spend some more time detailing that…. an I’ll made some 3d models…. :)

SN

Brad W

Whoa slow down SN :) - I like option 3 but with the range and fridge in the same location (I do not like the cooktop/oven/range by the windows).

Having said that I wonder how everyone feels about the historical nature of the home and how that will affect the remodelling choices. I think that the original kitchen design, while not as modern and open as the one proposed by SN, is quite functional and by restoring it with modern appliances you can respect the history of the house. This not only saves money but allows you to explore business opportunities which capitalize on the architectural history of the property ( a bed and breakfast for example).

To me this project is less about the floorplan and more materials. The layout is fine but as we have seen it can be compromised by bad choices and questionable workmanship.

Nancy and Sam

SN, Thank you! We have been having breakfast and visualizing the three plans. Imagining what it would be like to do the morning routine in the three different options. This will take time to explore. It is wonderful to see brainstorming in action. This is a great part of the evolution of this site. We really appreciate John and Matthew enabling this. Thanks to all.

Nancy & Sam

Brad & SN,

This is the quandary. The design is well thought out.

The first item on the Bill of Materials Hallock wrote is “All materials will be of the first quality of their kind.” The walls are smooth shockcrete in perfect condition, the ceilings are clear fir plywood, the exterior is clad in clear redwood, clear birch plywood has been used throughout in the built-ins.

Most of Hallock’s houses were built around Penn State. Few are intact, having suffered ensuing “updates”. We feel fortunate that much is original.

Brad W

Could a commercial style range and vent hood work in the original space?

Anonymous

Hi Nancy and Sam,

Great house and furniture and garden.

I agree that replacing the kitchen as is makes a lot of sense since it seems to function pretty well for you. I’d think about reworking the fridge side by putting in a wall oven and cabinet pantry (instead of the pantry in the closet).

One alternative I came up with is to flip the peninsula to the opposite wall. The cook top would be replaced with a range. The most important thing this does is allow more space around the sink. You’d have a working (wet/hot) area and a separate dry workspace where you could have space for counter top appliances, a microwave hung under a wall cabinet, and a raised bar to partially conceal the kitchen at least from the living room although not from the dining area.

I wonder if the floors continue under the cabinets. If they don’t it would have an impact on whether to change the footprint in my opinion.

Anonymous

opps…here’s the plan

http://profiles.google.com/srdan.nad Srdan Nagy

I see your dilemma….On one hand you want do make the renovation wright, and in the other you don’t want to spend a lot of money.
I totally agree with you…
Still, I only see two options, first just replace cabinet fronts and counter top; and second update the kitchen and do it in the wright way.
So, if you replace only necessary elements… (here are the + and – )
+ it would be cheap,
+ it will look good for some time
+ you preserve original elements of the house
- Potential buyer (one that will use it as his residence) will almost definitely complain about size of the kitchen
- After they buy the house they will probably extend the kitchen into the garden or so….
And if you upgrade the kitchen:
+ it will be more functional
+ it will add the value to the house
+ there will be no need to replace it for next 15-20 years…
- you may not get your money back
- is it worth all that trouble if new owner will convert the house into something else….

If I ware on your place, I would think how long i will live in that house. If it’s only for a year or two then I would leave as is do nothing, for five years I would change cabinets and appliances, ten or more I would do a major upgrade….
Looking from my experience, it is natural for a house to be renovated and upgraded. Currently I am working on a renovation of a late renaissance villa (build sometimes in 16th century) that changed its function several times…from a villa to Psychiatric hospital, to multi family housing unit, and just few years it was split into two apartment units. Despite the extensive changes to the building we are doing it wit a lot of respect to preserve what is left of the original structure and present it in the right way, but still add all of the elements normal contemporary life needs…
So just for fun I’ll do a nice 3d presentation of my option 3 to show you what can be done and still respect the building….

SN

Nancy & Sam

Srdan,

Thank you so much. Can’t wait to see the 3D plan.

You prioritizing advice based on projecting how long we intend to stay really clears the head.

We understand the difference between slavish preservation and respectful enhancements. The other work we have done through the house reflects this.

We hope this is as enlightening and fun for you as it is for us.

Nancy & Sam

Nancy & Sam

Theresa,

Thank you for an eye-opening alternative.

It is a “never thought of that!” moment giving us a creative whack on the side of the head.

Nancy & Sam

Terri

Nancy and Sam;
It must be wonderful to own and live in a home with so much history and integrity, except of course, for that dishwasher butcher job (too bad the original owner allowed that to happen!). I can understand your quandary as to how far to go modifying your kitchen, given the changes in your community. Aside from being a little small, the way it works looks good to me.

I feel inept to redesign such a space, so I’m not attempting it. I do wonder, though, if the sink and dishwasher could be put in that peninsula, as the higher wall would hide the sink and there are still lots of windows to look out from that location. The counter where the sink is presently would then become a brightly lit workspace under a window. The cupboards of the peninsula might be preserved and used in that block.

Oscar B. Morales

Oscar

Hello Nancy and Sam,

Although my original intent was to use both, the kitchen and mudroom, once my suspicion of the house as being a Usonian house, I went and did this sketch.

I do have two more questions; first since your floor is a concrete slab with radiant heating, is it working as originally designed. It appears that your floors have a finish on them, what is it, wood, carpet, sheet goods or painted concrete.

Two, you mentioned that ceilings are all finished with clear birch plywood, but it looks that on the “Work Space” (kitchen) there is a plastered ceiling.

The reason for these questions has to do more with your other concern about light fixtures. It is easier to address, if you have plaster ceilings. If you were to stay for a longer period of time on this house, I would recommend light fixtures that are more in keeping with the floor lamp on the living room for the dining room and the rest with recess lights as in your circulation path from the entry.

As to my sketch, I moved the sink (single bowl) to a modified peninsula; you will have views through the dining area windows. I would replace existing counters with solid surfaces.

The working triangle is opened up by rearranging the fixtures, and by installing built in millwork, it becomes even more efficient.

One note in the Usonian manifesto, it was preferred to have the “work space” (kitchen), dining and living area work as one space, which presently you have and only needs to be brought up to date. However I do have to ask if the half wall (I am not partial to them) at the living room works, it brings you towards the entry every time you come from the bedroom area, what is your opinion on this.

Thank you for letting us work on this great “Slow house”

Oscar

Nancy & Sam

Terri,

Thanks for your input. Good idea! Reuse and caution are our way.

Nancy & Sam

Design by Meiny

Just love what Theresa changed to your kitchen. A few simple moves for a lot more function in the existing space. It probably is also the least expensive option since you leave the laundry area as is. This option enables you to go for quality materials since they are limited in quantity; it would be closest to the original architects intent.

Nancy & Sam

Oscar,

Answers:The original radiant floor heat uses anti-freeze in soft copper with 10 loops each with their own flow adjustment off a manifold. It works perfectly. Most of the original house has asphalt tile which transmits well. In the 90′s wool carpet with foam pad was installed over the polished concrete in the Living Room and over the asphalt tile down the Hall. Upon inspection we discovered that the carpet and pad hold down about 20º F of heat. Correcting this is on the list and has the same constraints as this kitchen work. Will we stay? Will we at least break even if we sell? All in all the radiant heat can’t be beat. We extended the radiant heat into the addition with pex under bamboo. The Kitchen/Dining/Laundry/Half Bath ceiling is another humorous story. Sometime someone chose to paint over the clear fir plywood with a deep red purple all the way down to the bottom of the frieze boards. This was like a looming dark cloud which made interesting changes in the look of food and beverages. The color is best approximated in Photoshop as Hex #4d1d73 or Pantone 2607C. This was one of the first priorities after removing the glued burnt orange indoor outdoor carpet from the floors in the same area. Rather than attempt to strip the purple off overhead, we painted a warm off white. So, yes, it is plywood.As you can tell, we have spent the past 30 months in restoration mode.

Your sink and dishwasher move is great. The double pantry as well.

We are really enjoying this opportunity and the process.

Nancy and Sam

Sherry

I have a kitchen with a wind-through path like that and I hate it hate it hate it every single day. There is no place to be and work that isn’t in the way when someone comes through. It is the one thing about the house I live in that I would change if I could.

Sherry

Ack. Sorry for such a negative comment. I see the positive things that you’re trying to do with the counter space, but it ends up turning the kitchen into a traffic bottleneck.

Anonymous

Sherry,

You’re not being so negative…it is a concern. The way I look at it there are two zones and each has two ways to enter/exit. The aisles are about 48″ wide which is pretty wide for a working kitchen. The hallway is an alternative circulation zone so it could work out (or not).

Sherry

The 48″ width and alternate path through the hall does help make it workable. My difficult kitchen has a spot with only 30″ width and no way around the serpentine path through the kitchen.

http://profiles.google.com/srdan.nad Srdan Nagy

Here are some renders of my third option…so just some details… _Countertop is composit material like J&M showed few days ago…._Countertop is split into two levels (just like existing condition) so there is a small niche between two levels. There you can fit containers with spices, sugar….._that thing behind cooktop is downdraft hood hidden behind mask. Yes, yes, I know it is not practical (cooking and wood…. cleaning that….) but it looks good… :)that is it…. hope you like it….. i have to go back to work…. ….need to make some money…. SNP.S. John and Matthew, I miss working on slowhome….. I wanted to make something last week…… but my wife wood kill me if I spent a minute of our honeymoon/educational study tour working for slowhome ;)

Nancy & Sam

We are really aware of Kitchen flow-through. The Kitchen of our last house had 5 doorways with 4 swinging doors. Back Porch, Basement, Dining Room, Living Room, and Closet. All roads led through the Kitchen!

Nancy & Sam

Srdan,

We can’t thank you enough for you enthusiasm and creativity. Brainstorming at its best. You have given us so much to think about.

From N&S to SN

Oscar B. Morales

Hello S. N.

Great 3D CGI, what are you using for software?

Oscar

http://profiles.google.com/srdan.nad Srdan Nagy

Oscar,Thanks for the comment…. They are made using various programs, Autocad for modeling and Lightwave for rendering….
Please note that these are just a quick ones…. (It took only 4 hours to model and render) so they are not that good….
Here you can see some of my work where I have better ones…
this is my last project http://issuu.com/srdan3/docs/10036 I think renders are on last page… and you need to see it in full screen….
and if you are bored take a look at this… http://issuu.com/srdan3/docs/portfolio

SN

http://profiles.google.com/srdan.nad Srdan Nagy

N&S
Thanks… :) I was glad to helpToo bad we didn’t do this a month ago…. Two weeks ago my wife and me were driving trough your part of Pennsylvania (great countryside)and we would invite ourselves to take a peak at your beautiful house….Honestly you have a beautiful house…. so don’t mess it up… :) SN