So, I find myself needing to replace my 2005 Nissan Titan. It's a daily driver that tows the boat in summer. My choices are narrowed to the Toyota Tundra, Chevy 2500 HD, or F250. Both the 3/4 tom trucks would be diesel and all would be 2010. My thoughts are the extra capacity and towing of the ford and chevy would be great and the Toyota would be better as a daily driver. Really it comes down to the 1/2 ton versus 3/4 ton debate. If it makes any difference the boat is 2009 22SSV and I tow and drive in the mountains or northern Utah.

I went back and forth on 1/2 ton vs. 3/4 ton and gas vs. diesel. I went with a 2010 Tundra...so obviously my opinion is biased.

With that said, I just couldn't justify a diesel truck or 3/4 ton for something that will see less then 1500 miles a year towing. Another big influence on our decision is the fact that 95% + of the time the truck will be used to commute back and forth to work. My commute is 5.5 miles and my wife's is only 3. A diesel would barely even warm up in that short distance. Nothing will tow like a diesel, but the Tundra should do well enough for a wake boat. If you get the 5.7 it has 381hp and 400ft/lbs. of torque, paired with a 6spd transmission and a 4.3 rear end, it should be plenty to tow your Supra.

My recommendation is for the Tundra. I like to refer to the Tundra with the 5.7 as a 3/4 ton capable truck in a 1/2 ton wrapper. As mentioned, the 380 HP and 400+ Torque, is pretty tough to beat. GM offers that in the 6.X motors, but you are going to pay a pretty penny for those. If you have any more questions or need additional information, feel free to hit me up. I swear by my Tundra.

Mine has a 2.5" leveling kit with 305/65/18 BFG ATs and tows our XSTAR like it's not even back there. It cruises at 70mph/1900 RPM with the boat all day long.

I agree with John and Patric, it's hard to beat the Tundra. I picked up and 07 5.7l with the TRD package over the winter on the cheap and I love it. I went into it wanting an F-250, and had an F-150 before with the 4.6l. There are some hills out here that I tow through and the 4.6 was taking a beating. At the end of it, I couldn't justify a diesel for my daily driver. I jumped in the Tundra quick after test driving it. I also looked at the Titan, my good friend has one. It's nice and has a lot of power, but we both agreed that it couldn't compare to the Tundra. It's a flat out beast.
I've only had the boat behind it twice so far, but it was night and day difference from the Ford.

I think that buying a 1/2 ton gasser to tow your boat in the mountains like you say you will be towing in would be silly. even if the Tundra has 380 hp and 400 plus torque you will still put a lot more stress on that motor than a diesel that has twice the torque and the same Hp to pull the mtn passes. What kind of gas miliage do you guys get with the Trundas while pulling up grades?

I think that buying a 1/2 ton gasser to tow your boat in the mountains like you say you will be towing in would be silly. even if the Tundra has 380 hp and 400 plus torque you will still put a lot more stress on that motor than a diesel that has twice the torque and the same Hp to pull the mtn passes. What kind of gas miliage do you guys get with the Trundas while pulling up grades?

when i pull from Phoenix to Powell up the mountains i probably get 8,5mpg.... on the way back though, 18+ (all downhill)

My truck has a 6" lift and 35" tires though, so its probably not near the mileage a stock Tundra on all seasons would get.

Id say 99% of my towing is done flat, no hills to speak of in the phoenix area.

Im not sure what the braking system looks like on the govt. motors 3/4tons, But i can speak to the Tundra.

Mine has 4 piston calipers on all 4 and 14" rotors. this thing stops better than any truck ive driven. including 3/4ton RAMs i've owned in the past.

Cant beat the Duramax though as a toy hauler.

Whatever your decision, you will be able to pull just fine, and the engines will last a long time.

just my .02

I love the dig regarding GM and the fact that the government helped them out. I bet you didn't know that Toyota had it's start-up funded by the Japanese government...AND they actually kicked out GM and Ford from Japan at the time, so Toyota could have no competition to deal with. Also, they have received so much money over their lifetime from their government that it is silly to bag on GM (at least when touting Toyota) for doing the same thing.

my point is...and others have seemed to make it also...is that once guys make the switch to Diesel, they (almost) never go back to gas. There has to be a reason for that.

I love the dig regarding GM and the fact that the government helped them out. I bet you didn't know that Toyota had it's start-up funded by the Japanese government...AND they actually kicked out GM and Ford from Japan at the time, so Toyota could have no competition to deal with. Also, they have received so much money over their lifetime from their government that it is silly to bag on GM (at least when touting Toyota) for doing the same thing.

my point is...and others have seemed to make it also...is that once guys make the switch to Diesel, they (almost) never go back to gas. There has to be a reason for that.

lol, couldnt help but throw the jab in there. Somehow i knew it would be taken personally....

It was my attempt at sarcasm. No ill intent meant.

The reason people go to Diesel, and stay there is the raw towing power is unmatchable in a gas engine. No doubt about it. However, the towing capacity on the tundras is amazing, for a gas engine. at 10,800lbs thats nothing to scoff at. The fact is though, not many wake boats require a diesel vehicle to pull effectively to and from the lake. Personally, i think its overkill unless you use it for much more than pulling the boat to and from a lake thats close by.

If however, you are pulling in the mountains, over big hills, or long trips, there is no question that a diesel powered truck is superior.

I can tell you for a fact that my Tundra pulls noticeably better than my RAM did.

I am starting the process of looking for trucks and have decided I am going diesel for many reasons. For one we tow our boat about 300 mile round trip and even though the dry weight is 3600lbs with fuel trailer and all the gear some have said a Vlx is in the 5.5-6k range and every half ton we have had struggles in the mountains of the latter half of the trip. From a power and fuel mileage standpoint it is a no contest diesel wins. Also the transmissions and other power aspects are more likely to last over the long term in the 3/4 ton trucks.

From a daily driver POV once again the diesel empty gets as good if not better mileage than virtually all half tons especially if you make a few upgrades in the exhaust and programmer aspect.

The one downside when comparing the two is the daily driving size of the diesel compared to half tons. Yes they are bigger and harder to park but that is one sacrifice that I am willing to make in order to gain the other benefits of the diesel.

This is just my two cents from my perspective of wants and needs. And for reference I am looking for an 06-07 Classic Duramax with the LBZ motor so not necessarily the newest body styles of trucks.

i recently went back to a pickup from an SUV. as much as i wanted (and still would love to have one) the size of the heavy duty trucks ruled them out. turning radii and dimensions are so much more than the half ton segment it makes them nearly impractical in some city driving. from parallel parking to parking garages, they just arent (as) feasible for urban environments...

as for the 1/2 tonners, power was a must. that ruled out ford. the 5.4l felt anemic at best even under just its own weight. towing cap was paramount. that ruled out the dodge. when you option out a dodge completely, you immediately lose 1000 lbs of capacity when going with the Laramie and 20 inch wheels (which, as i understand it, is the case with all the domestic 1/2 tonners. toyota is the only to rate EVERY tundra at 10800 lbs). the gm's were appealing w/ the 6.2L, but they are harder to find (dealers werent willing to budge on them if they had to locate and transfer them) and require the use of premium fuel, adding 20 cents per gallon on every fill up.

that left the Tundra, which is now sitting in my driveway. they all have their pros and cons, i will tell you where Toyota kicks the competitions arse in my opinion.
1. full roll down rear window in the CMax. makes communication w/ people in the boat or at the trailer when launching super easy. allows stereo to project to the bed when tailgating.
2. turing circle diameter. the Tundra's is 44 feet as compared to the 47ish plus of the other similar half tons (and 50 plus in the heavys)
3. front sonar. no other truck has it, and it is invaluable for squeezing into tight spaces.
4. variable valve timing on both the intake and exhaust valves. toyota gets more from a smaller engine than both gm and ford. i believe the dodge has slightly more power. you can actually hear the timing change and feel the power increase in the engine when you put it under load.
5. the center stack is very simple. the ford and gm felt like they had a bazillion tiny buttons to do the same thing as toyotas dials.

where it lacks
1. the seats adjustabilty and heating/AC capability come in 4th place behind the domestics. I have the platinum w/ AC seats...they need to be cooler and the lumbar needs more adjustabilty.
2. the stereo doesnt image well even in my platinum
3. it needs an option for power folding TOW mirrors
4. the platinum version uses faux wood.

TC, why should we care that another country bails out it's auto maker? It's not our tax dollars that paid for it.

HAHAHA! That is a great point, and I was wondering if anyone would actually point that out. Personally, though, I would rather support a company owned by my country than a company owned by another country. (I live in the United States of America). And for the record, I really wished they hadn't bailed them out.

Seriously, though, I don't think the Toyota loyal realize that that company has been government owned (or at least subsidized) its entire life.

As far as the GM 6.2 needing Premium fuel, it is not required. Facts, people. Facts.

Oh, and Carter...why is it "obvious reasons"... according to some here, you would have been better off with a Toyota

The book might say it can tow 10,800lbs but I'm pretty sure that it would have a hard time pulling it a 65-70mph and still while still getting 15mpg. that is the other thing that I love about my diesel is when we go camping with our friends I can go on a tank of gas and they all have to fill up to get back home. But I do like the looks of your tundra Bill lifted like that looks good.

The book might say it can tow 10,800lbs but I'm pretty sure that it would have a hard time pulling it a 65-70mph and still while still getting 15mpg. that is the other thing that I love about my diesel is when we go camping with our friends I can go on a tank of gas and they all have to fill up to get back home. But I do like the looks of your tundra Bill lifted like that looks good.

There are guys on Tundratalk that regularly pull 11k+ lb fifth wheels + campers, however im sure they dont get 15mpg. So i know the truck can pull it, but certainly not with the ease a Cummins or Duramax could.

True, but at the same time, the diesels aren't going to get great gas mileage either. We have a brand new f450 that we use to tow a gooseneck trailer with tractors and bulldozers on it, gas mileage sucks with nothing in tow but just putting my response lx behind it , it still doesn't get but like 8 mpg and that's on flat roads! Granted this is an extreme case and I know the engine in the 450 is bigger, but even with my buddies 2500 duramax it still gets crap gas mileage. I had an 06 z71 tahoe and towing my boat I got 13 mpg. And it was lifted with 305s on it. My buddies duramax towed the exact same route, same speed everything and got 9-10 mpg.

My question is this, how often do you tow your boat? If I towed it once a week or something but drove to work everyday in it, I'd go for the tundra and put a cold air intake, some kind of exhaust, and possibly a custom PCM tune and go with it. All of those will help with hp and mpg.

I get 18-22 MPG on the interstate depending on speed (75-65). 16-19 when towing at the same speeds. This is in an 06 crew cab LBZ Duramax with a little larger tire than stock.

I don't know why your buddies milage was so bad, but it may have been a clogged EGR that the LBZs are notorious for. I have mine disabled. I know there are very large differences in MPG numbers on diesel trucks for the same engines and there is no common reason; but most Duramax owners see over 15MPG when pulling moderate loads.

Braking is a non issue.

With a full tank, it nice to see numbers over 400 on the DTE reading. In my 2500HD gasser it was about 220 (same size tank) and in my Hemi with close to same tank, it was about 280.

The lakes I towed too with a gasser was at least a full tank for a round trip. I have cut that to almost half, which means more money for boat gas.

"If the vehicle has the 6.2L V8 engine (VIN Code 2), use premium unleaded gasoline with a posted octane rating of 91 or higher. You can also use regular unleaded gasoline rated at 87 octane or higher, but the vehicle's acceleration could be slightly reduced, and a slight audible knocking noise, commonly referred to as spark knock, might be heard. If the octane is less than 87, you might notice a heavy knocking noise when you drive. If this occurs, use a gasoline rated at 87 octane or higher as soon as possible. Otherwise, you could damage the engine. If heavy knocking is heard when using gasoline rated at 87 octane or higher, the engine needs service."

i have to ask, would you use low grade fuel given that vehicle will lose towing/accelerating power and fuel efficiency and will knock on less than 91 octane? i mean, we are talking about towing, correct?

This is pretty irrelevant since they are totally different cars, but if toyota is so dependable and great, why cant they figure our whats wrong with their prius' and other cars. And before someone points this out, sure they have done their job on the recall. But i cant think of any other manufacturer that has taken so long to come up with a solution to their problem.

i guess we are splitting hairs here, but i read the recommendation as 91 or higher.

its like reading instructions for digging a ditch that say "use a shovel. a spoon can be used, but if your back starts hurt, find a shovel." under certain load and compression environments, it will be okay. under others, keep your ears sharpened for a knock. but i digress, hijack over....

as for the recalls, i am not a brand loyalist. i am a what is best for me consumer, so i am in no way vouching for toyota because i own one, but here we go: call me a conspiracy theorist, but i firmly believe (albeit unsubstantiated like many of the acceleration claims) that because we (by virtue of our government) own a large chunk of gm that our state controlled media has spun this out of control to boost sales of domestics. you would have to think that if the problem was that big and or dangerous the government would have no problem telling toyota to stop selling cars until they figure it out (which would boost domestic sales even further). i sell medical devices for a living. if there is even the hint of a perceived quality or performance issue, the FDA would have no problem telling my company to stop selling our life saving devices until we figured it out...they have done it several times before....

This is pretty irrelevant since they are totally different cars, but if toyota is so dependable and great, why cant they figure our whats wrong with their prius' and other cars. And before someone points this out, sure they have done their job on the recall. But i cant think of any other manufacturer that has taken so long to come up with a solution to their problem.

The Pedal problem was narrowed down to the following models, by year. The Prius is another beast.

*Highlander hybrids and Camry hybrids are not involved in this action and will remain for sale. Further, Camry, RAV 4, Corolla and Highlander vehicles with VINs that begin with "J" are not involved.

What i find highly suspect isn't the fact that Toyota has supposedly been covering it up, but the fact that it's not been highly publicized that the actual pedal assembly is an American manufactured product. There are two companies who manufacture the pedals for these vehicles, hence the reason not all models or model years are affected. (CTS, and DENSO)

The CTS manufactured pedal is the pedal identified as the problem. CTS has worked with Toyota to rectify the problem.

I'm no conspiracy theorist, but the fact that some American auto makers have been in recent financial trouble, and the abuse Toyota has taken over a few incidents blows my mind. Since the US has a vested interest in General Motors now, it makes you question some of the recent events.

Lets be honest here, how difficult is it to put the vehicle in neutral if you feel the car accelerate suddenly? This happened to me in my old Eclipse GSX. I hit the gas to pass a truck, and the throttle cable got stuck. I put the car in neutral, shut it off, and coasted to the shoulder.

At this point its been difficult to distinguish those who have truly had an issue, and those who are crying wolf to either get publicity, or $.

I have an 08 2500 HD. 8 inches, 37's. 16-17 mpg w/o the boat and 14-15 with the boat. I do have a programmer on it that helped a good bit with gas mileage but that's all so far. It's my everyday driver and have had no problems out of it!

I'm not fooling myself that the Tundra is a 3/4 ton, it's a good 1/2 ton. I think they are also made in America. Anyone know how a 6" lift and 35's are going to effect towing on the Tundra, or another 1/2 ton?

on the 2011 Ford 6.7 diesel, I have a good friend in Michigan who is an engineer with Ford and has been driving one of the new diesels for 1.5 years now. It get's 22 mpg empty and 17-18 pulling. They are expected to start shipping to dealers soon. It looks like a hard loaded F250 4x4 Crew Lariat with power roof and nav will retail around $56k. According to a friend who owns a Ford dealership in GA, expect to pay close to that. Doesn't sound like there will be discounts for now. He has an F450 Crew 4x4 coming that I am buying and I am looking forward to getting it. I need more truck.

So I am going to sell my 08 F250 Crew 4x4 Lariat. 38k miles, white with tan leather and everything on it buy nav. Stickered for $51,955. I will take $32,500 for it which is a great deal. I can get the 200k mile warranty on it for $2k. It has had the new egr valve and housing which has been the only issue on the 6.4L motors. It's a great deal for one loaded up like this one. I get 17 empty and 12-13 pulling as a rule, here lately I have been averaging 13.5 pulling. Only going to the 450 as we are buying a big living quarters horse trailer and my F250 isn't going to cut it.

If you plan on lifting it diesel is ideal for towing and just driving around. they have so much torque that can move those tires around with no problem. also when you chip them they get great gas millage. i have a Duramax right now and i will never go back to gas.

We are at somewhat of the same crossroads as you, however, we are staying in the 1/2 ton & gas arena. We have done extensive research and test driving and have narrowed it down to a new Tundra (Limited, Crewmax) and new Dodge Ram 1500 (Laramie, crew cab).

Just curious what steered you away from the new Dodge? We found it to be very comparable to the Tundra. Just wanting to make sure we are not missing anything about the Dodge that you may have uncovered. IMHO, Dodge has stepped up it's fit-n-finish and interior with this latest Ram model, which was the biggest knock on them on previous models. The Hemi is tried and true and speaks for itself when you hit the accelerator (with & without a load). Nothing compares to a Deisel, but for gas 1/2 tons, these two trucks stood out among the rest.

Guys I have had several diesels, ford chevy & dodge... I stand behind my 09 3500 duramax dually all day long... However I just pulled my supra ssv24 225 miles with the little womans 2010 Denali... I has the 6.2 with an automatic 6speed self leveling shocks the works... I was getting 17mpg and couldnt tell it was there... Needless to say I was Very impressed...

Read the CR thing. Went to consumer reports (member area) read the article. They kept comparing the 250 to the 150. Most of the issues that CR had were revolving around it being a huge truck, rough ride (duh its a heavy duty truck), and engine issues with the old power stroke. I have a 2500HD 05 with the dmax and I love it. I just ordered a 2011 Power stroke Long Bed. I agree that if it lives up to all that has been written it is going to be a hell of a truck. I will let you guys know what I think.

I would stay away from the '10 SD Ford PS. Those things have been riddled with issues since they went to that motor. I know not all of them are horrible but a guy at my office had one of his bought back because they could not get the emissions systems to ever function property. At least Ford did the right thing.

The other reason I went with the Ford is because they did not take the money. They revamped their products and rearranged themselves without the Messiah.

I like the Tundra because of experience owning three 4Runners and have never been into the look of the Dodge. The way I figure it if my "99 4Runner can tow my old Supra in the mountains to a 115k miles and the Titan has 104k with several problems the Toyota should be a great 1/2 ton truck. Just don't think I can justify the 3/4 ton diesel.

Just hope that a 5" lift, 20" wheels, and 35x12.50 tires don't kill my towing ability. As I see it most of the trucks made today look like two wheel drives or an SUV that mom drives to soccer practice.