New potter, health concerns

I've been making pottery for 7 months (self taught). I have my own set up in my garage (electric kiln is vented to outside, CO monitor). I have read countless writings on studio & glaze hazards. I am quite particular with my routine and only wet mop areas and wear gloves & mask whenever near chemicals or stirring up dust. I am currently going through a body detox for heavy metal poisoning and I'm doing well withthat regimen. However, a recent test is showing excessive levels of thallium and this is new for me. The only change in my habits has been my pottery. Have any of you ever been tested for any toxic substances? If so, what kind of results did you receive? My main concern is my health, of course, & I love working with clay, but I will give it up if I need to do so. My concern is with glazes. Right now, I am using dry Coyote glazes I mix myself (with every precaution) & only a very few ( a clear, a white, light blue, shino). I certainly don't want to poison myself any further. Are there any less toxic glazes I can mix and make myself? I do understand there are risks involved but I'd like to minimize them. I don't usually post on forums, but I find all of you so talented, kind, supportive, and hugely knowledgeable. I could use some sage advice & I really don't want to take up knitting.

Oh boy are you going to get advice. People here love to go on and on about safety and that's a good thing until they get so silly about it that you'd think they're talking about plutonium instead of clay. A few days ago there was a thread here where someone was recommending wearing gloves and respirator to mix a little red iron oxide in water to sign pots. That's nonsense. Clay and glaze chemicals aren't that dangerous! You don't want to breath a lot of clay dust because of the silica in it. That's easy, just use common sense when working with dry clay or doing anything that will expose you to clay dust. Wet mop, wipe down tables with sponges, spray water in the air to keep dust down. Most of the chemicals used to make glazes are as safe as clay and all you need to do is avoid breathing them the same way you avoid breathing clay. But some are more dangerous than others. Know which ones are dangerous and label them. Again the main thing is you don't want to inhale those either. From what you've written, you're probably already doing more than enough to be safe and you probably got a little thallium from water not your studio.

Who ordered the thalium level for you?! Did you have it done through the blood work? Do you smoke cigarets?Who is doing your detox?!There are lot of charlatans making money on so called detoxes.

Stole the words from my mouth. Just wanted to make sure this is all being done by a license health professional. I'm not a glaze expert, but I have seen my fair number of glaze recipes and I haven't seen any Thallium or Thallium Oxides as ingredients that I remember.

So if you do have Thallium poisoning, I'm guessing it's from something non-pottery related.

Thallium can be present is iron pyrite, granite, and potassium rich clays. It is highest in drinking water around ire ore mines. If you have had a chemical cardiac stress test, thallium may have been used (i.e. Adenosine Thallium or Cardiolyte Thallium testing.)

The glazes you describe are not known to contain Thallium. Regular precautions in the studio should protect you from thallium dust that may be in the clay dust. FYI.. Detoxification typically uses Prussian blue followed by Potassium supplements with the Prussian blue. There are a lot a shams when it comes to detox! be careful.

I appreciate your concern about shams and charlatans. I can assure you the person doing my medical tests is a respected neurologist and neurosurgeon and I've been to some of the best.
Again, I reiterate, my ONLY change has been pottery. Water in my home is double and sometimes triple filtered. I am very particular about what is around me and my food and water supply.
I am a former athlete who is very disciplined and very well-read on toxic materials around us. Something has poisoned me and again, the only change has been pottery. I had a prior toxic test a year ago
which showed NO thallium at all. This is my concern.
In my readings, I have found that glazes are pretty toxic so dismissing that fact is just silly. Precautions should be taken by everyone. When I see a video of someone using his/her arm to stir
things I cringe.
Thanks for your comments,

Glazes and raw chemicals can have toxic substances in them, but clay is a natural material. I think a lot of the paranoia on some of this stuff is insane, for example, the lead paranoia is such that you get the impression that just looking at a PHOTO of a piece of lead you'll get lead poisoning!Fact is, on my day job we have workers who work with lead and lead/tin alloy sheets ALL DAY LONG, they cut, drill, file, wash, polish and solder it into organ pipes. They even lightly touch the pipes to their lips and blow into them for testing the sound, they get periodic blood tests and their tests are always NORMAL.How is this possible? simple! they WASH THEIR HANDS after handling the metal before they eat etc

There's only two main ways for a toxic substance to get into you- via mouth and via breathing in the dust, some liquids can be absorbed thru the skin, and for you ladies who use nail polish, I'll bet you were not aware of how toxic that acetone used really is!Acetone is absorbed into the skin very readily, which means if you have something else on your hands that is toxic it gets absorbed too since the acetone acts as a solvent.

Acetone is a strong known carcinogen, cancer causing, along with other health effects, yet, how many of the ladies here use nail polish, nail polish remover etc made with this and don't give it asecond thought?Point is, there's so many things worse than clay and glazes that people use every day on or in their BODY and never give a second thought to. Just avoid making/breathing in dust, and avoid getting raw chemicals and glazes be it powdered or liquid on your skin, wash your hands thoroughly after handling these materials, their containers, or wiping up spills in the studio.

Clay is considered non toxic in it's moist form, when it's dry, avoid sweeping any dust up in such a way you stir up a lot of dust, damp mop or sponge it up instead of trying to vaccuum or sweep it.

This has been discussed here before and I offer this again, not to in any way to advocate not being careful and safety conscious in the studio, but simply to make the observation. Most of the potters who studied pottery in college during the late 60's and early 70's like I did and probably up until the 80's will remember the almost complete lack of concern for the dangers of breathing silica dust and other harmful dusts in the ceramics studio. We used to mix our own clay by going into the clay room and closing the door so that the dust wouldn't get all over the studio (not because of safety concerns but simply not wanting everything covered with dust). We'd pour the various clays into big barrels and mixed the clays together by rolling the barrows back and forth (great fun trying to knock each other down). After an hour or so of mixing clay we'd come out covered from head to toe in clay dust. No chemical in the glaze lab was ever marked as harmful and I'm pretty sure no one ever saw a glove or respirator or even a dust mask in the ceramics studio. During my student days and the years right after, I worked in or visited ceramic studios at many schools, community centers, and guilds in Georgia and Colorado and places like Arrowmont where I studied under Cardew and they were all basically as unconcerned with dust dangers as my school. So, over the years I've kept up with a lot of potters who went to school with me or I met over the years potting in Colorado. We're all getting old now but I've never heard of a single one of them complain of silicosis. The professor who made us mix clay in barrels in the clay room and mixed his own clay there for a couple of decades is in his 80's and is still potting. My point here being that while the almost complete unconcern for the dangers of silica dust and other harmful dusts in the ceramic labs of the '70s was out of ignorance that is shocking today had those studios really been as dangerous as some nervous Nellies believe today, we would all have been dead long ago.

BTW, RDWolff mentions acetone. I paid for my first year of college by working at a factory that made bombs for Vietnam. At lunchtime we washed our hands and faces in acetone to get paint off. Other than loosing half my brain I've suffered no ill effects so far.

Glazes and raw chemicals can have toxic substances in them, but clay is a natural material. I think a lot of the paranoia on some of this stuff is insane, for example, the lead paranoia is such that you get the impression that just looking at a PHOTO of a piece of lead you'll get lead poisoning!Fact is, on my day job we have workers who work with lead and lead/tin alloy sheets ALL DAY LONG, they cut, drill, file, wash, polish and solder it into organ pipes. They even lightly touch the pipes to their lips and blow into them for testing the sound, they get periodic blood tests and their tests are always NORMAL.How is this possible? simple! they WASH THEIR HANDS after handling the metal before they eat etc

There's only two main ways for a toxic substance to get into you- via mouth and via breathing in the dust, some liquids can be absorbed thru the skin, and for you ladies who use nail polish, I'll bet you were not aware of how toxic that acetone used really is!Acetone is absorbed into the skin very readily, which means if you have something else on your hands that is toxic it gets absorbed too since the acetone acts as a solvent.

Acetone is a strong known carcinogen, cancer causing, along with other health effects, yet, how many of the ladies here use nail polish, nail polish remover etc made with this and don't give it asecond thought?Point is, there's so many things worse than clay and glazes that people use every day on or in their BODY and never give a second thought to. Just avoid making/breathing in dust, and avoid getting raw chemicals and glazes be it powdered or liquid on your skin, wash your hands thoroughly after handling these materials, their containers, or wiping up spills in the studio.

Clay is considered non toxic in it's moist form, when it's dry, avoid sweeping any dust up in such a way you stir up a lot of dust, damp mop or sponge it up instead of trying to vaccuum or sweep it.

This has been discussed here before and I offer this again, not to in any way to advocate not being careful and safety conscious in the studio, but simply to make the observation. Most of the potters who studied pottery in college during the late 60's and early 70's like I did and probably up until the 80's will remember the almost complete lack of concern for the dangers of breathing silica dust and other harmful dusts in the ceramics studio. We used to mix our own clay by going into the clay room and closing the door so that the dust wouldn't get all over the studio (not because of safety concerns but simply not wanting everything covered with dust). We'd pour the various clays into big barrels and mixed the clays together by rolling the barrows back and forth (great fun trying to knock each other down). After an hour or so of mixing clay we'd come out covered from head to toe in clay dust. No chemical in the glaze lab was ever marked as harmful and I'm pretty sure no one ever saw a glove or respirator or even a dust mask in the ceramics studio. During my student days and the years right after, I worked in or visited ceramic studios at many schools, community centers, and guilds in Georgia and Colorado and places like Arrowmont where I studied under Cardew and they were all basically as unconcerned with dust dangers as my school. So, over the years I've kept up with a lot of potters who went to school with me or I met over the years potting in Colorado. We're all getting old now but I've never heard of a single one of them complain of silicosis. The professor who made us mix clay in barrels in the clay room and mixed his own clay there for a couple of decades is in his 80's and is still potting. My point here being that while the almost complete unconcern for the dangers of silica dust and other harmful dusts in the ceramic labs of the '70s was out of ignorance that is shocking today had those studios really been as dangerous as some nervous Nellies believe today, we would all have been dead long ago.

BTW, RDWolff mentions acetone. I paid for my first year of college by working at a factory that made bombs for Vietnam. At lunchtime we washed our hands and faces in acetone to get paint off. Other than loosing half my brain I've suffered no ill effects so far.

Jim

Yeah, I've become a bit more cautious, when it comes to have my students reclaim clay. I used to have them work in pulverized bone dry clay, to dry out the reclaim faster, but it did make a dusty mess. No one really ever had a problem with it. I had students, and other teachers, with dust allergies, that would come in, and have no issues. My co-worker, with whom I shared a classroom, seemed to develop and allergy to clay, as I refined the process, and made it cleaner (less dust)....Weird.

Acetone is nasty stuff. We used it in to do transfers in Lithography, in college. We were required to wear a respirator, when handling it. Pretty much any of the related solvents are just horrible, but sometimes necessary. I've tried using safer methods for cleaning up grease based media, and they just don't work as well. I used baby oil to clean up after silk screening, and while it works to some extent, I found myself going over it all, with a solvent.

I can assure you the person doing my medical tests is a respected neurologist and neurosurgeon and I've been to some of the best.

Neurosurgeon?! Thallium poisoning causes peripheral neuropathy, hair loss. When did the neurosurgeons start getting into this business? Hmmm.. . It is also cancerogenic (meaning it can cause cancers), but I do not remember what kind of cancers. If the neurosurgeon is involved, I can assume it is a brain cancer (I am not prying into your personal life, but I am trying to understand what is going on). So, if we assume it is a brain cancer, then the Thallium has nothing to do with that, as the level was normal a year ago. Why did they check the Thallium level a year ago anyway?

Glazes and raw chemicals can have toxic substances in them, but clay is a natural material. I think a lot of the paranoia on some of this stuff is insane, for example, the lead paranoia is such that you get the impression that just looking at a PHOTO of a piece of lead you'll get lead poisoning!Fact is, on my day job we have workers who work with lead and lead/tin alloy sheets ALL DAY LONG, they cut, drill, file, wash, polish and solder it into organ pipes. They even lightly touch the pipes to their lips and blow into them for testing the sound, they get periodic blood tests and their tests are always NORMAL.How is this possible? simple! they WASH THEIR HANDS after handling the metal before they eat etc

There's only two main ways for a toxic substance to get into you- via mouth and via breathing in the dust, some liquids can be absorbed thru the skin, and for you ladies who use nail polish, I'll bet you were not aware of how toxic that acetone used really is!Acetone is absorbed into the skin very readily, which means if you have something else on your hands that is toxic it gets absorbed too since the acetone acts as a solvent.

Acetone is a strong known carcinogen, cancer causing, along with other health effects, yet, how many of the ladies here use nail polish, nail polish remover etc made with this and don't give it asecond thought?Point is, there's so many things worse than clay and glazes that people use every day on or in their BODY and never give a second thought to. Just avoid making/breathing in dust, and avoid getting raw chemicals and glazes be it powdered or liquid on your skin, wash your hands thoroughly after handling these materials, their containers, or wiping up spills in the studio.

Clay is considered non toxic in it's moist form, when it's dry, avoid sweeping any dust up in such a way you stir up a lot of dust, damp mop or sponge it up instead of trying to vaccuum or sweep it.

This has been discussed here before and I offer this again, not to in any way to advocate not being careful and safety conscious in the studio, but simply to make the observation. Most of the potters who studied pottery in college during the late 60's and early 70's like I did and probably up until the 80's will remember the almost complete lack of concern for the dangers of breathing silica dust and other harmful dusts in the ceramics studio. We used to mix our own clay by going into the clay room and closing the door so that the dust wouldn't get all over the studio (not because of safety concerns but simply not wanting everything covered with dust). We'd pour the various clays into big barrels and mixed the clays together by rolling the barrows back and forth (great fun trying to knock each other down). After an hour or so of mixing clay we'd come out covered from head to toe in clay dust. No chemical in the glaze lab was ever marked as harmful and I'm pretty sure no one ever saw a glove or respirator or even a dust mask in the ceramics studio. During my student days and the years right after, I worked in or visited ceramic studios at many schools, community centers, and guilds in Georgia and Colorado and places like Arrowmont where I studied under Cardew and they were all basically as unconcerned with dust dangers as my school. So, over the years I've kept up with a lot of potters who went to school with me or I met over the years potting in Colorado. We're all getting old now but I've never heard of a single one of them complain of silicosis. The professor who made us mix clay in barrels in the clay room and mixed his own clay there for a couple of decades is in his 80's and is still potting. My point here being that while the almost complete unconcern for the dangers of silica dust and other harmful dusts in the ceramic labs of the '70s was out of ignorance that is shocking today had those studios really been as dangerous as some nervous Nellies believe today, we would all have been dead long ago.

BTW, RDWolff mentions acetone. I paid for my first year of college by working at a factory that made bombs for Vietnam. At lunchtime we washed our hands and faces in acetone to get paint off. Other than loosing half my brain I've suffered no ill effects so far.

Jim

Yeah, I've become a bit more cautious, when it comes to have my students reclaim clay. I used to have them work in pulverized bone dry clay, to dry out the reclaim faster, but it did make a dusty mess. No one really ever had a problem with it. I had students, and other teachers, with dust allergies, that would come in, and have no issues. My co-worker, with whom I shared a classroom, seemed to develop and allergy to clay, as I refined the process, and made it cleaner (less dust)....Weird.

Acetone is nasty stuff. We used it in to do transfers in Lithography, in college. We were required to wear a respirator, when handling it. Pretty much any of the related solvents are just horrible, but sometimes necessary. I've tried using safer methods for cleaning up grease based media, and they just don't work as well. I used baby oil to clean up after silk screening, and while it works to some extent, I found myself going over it all, with a solvent.

Try mixing the baby oil with regular dish detergent, it helps. I used to do calliographs using masonite and mesh curtain fabric, lace etc filling with layers of polymer medium. Mixed veggie crisco with the ink for easier wiping, used the mix mentioned to clean up. Worked pretty well.

Glazes and raw chemicals can have toxic substances in them, but clay is a natural material. I think a lot of the paranoia on some of this stuff is insane, for example, the lead paranoia is such that you get the impression that just looking at a PHOTO of a piece of lead you'll get lead poisoning!Fact is, on my day job we have workers who work with lead and lead/tin alloy sheets ALL DAY LONG, they cut, drill, file, wash, polish and solder it into organ pipes. They even lightly touch the pipes to their lips and blow into them for testing the sound, they get periodic blood tests and their tests are always NORMAL.How is this possible? simple! they WASH THEIR HANDS after handling the metal before they eat etc

There's only two main ways for a toxic substance to get into you- via mouth and via breathing in the dust, some liquids can be absorbed thru the skin, and for you ladies who use nail polish, I'll bet you were not aware of how toxic that acetone used really is!Acetone is absorbed into the skin very readily, which means if you have something else on your hands that is toxic it gets absorbed too since the acetone acts as a solvent.

Acetone is a strong known carcinogen, cancer causing, along with other health effects, yet, how many of the ladies here use nail polish, nail polish remover etc made with this and don't give it asecond thought?Point is, there's so many things worse than clay and glazes that people use every day on or in their BODY and never give a second thought to. Just avoid making/breathing in dust, and avoid getting raw chemicals and glazes be it powdered or liquid on your skin, wash your hands thoroughly after handling these materials, their containers, or wiping up spills in the studio.

Clay is considered non toxic in it's moist form, when it's dry, avoid sweeping any dust up in such a way you stir up a lot of dust, damp mop or sponge it up instead of trying to vaccuum or sweep it.

This has been discussed here before and I offer this again, not to in any way to advocate not being careful and safety conscious in the studio, but simply to make the observation. Most of the potters who studied pottery in college during the late 60's and early 70's like I did and probably up until the 80's will remember the almost complete lack of concern for the dangers of breathing silica dust and other harmful dusts in the ceramics studio. We used to mix our own clay by going into the clay room and closing the door so that the dust wouldn't get all over the studio (not because of safety concerns but simply not wanting everything covered with dust). We'd pour the various clays into big barrels and mixed the clays together by rolling the barrows back and forth (great fun trying to knock each other down). After an hour or so of mixing clay we'd come out covered from head to toe in clay dust. No chemical in the glaze lab was ever marked as harmful and I'm pretty sure no one ever saw a glove or respirator or even a dust mask in the ceramics studio. During my student days and the years right after, I worked in or visited ceramic studios at many schools, community centers, and guilds in Georgia and Colorado and places like Arrowmont where I studied under Cardew and they were all basically as unconcerned with dust dangers as my school. So, over the years I've kept up with a lot of potters who went to school with me or I met over the years potting in Colorado. We're all getting old now but I've never heard of a single one of them complain of silicosis. The professor who made us mix clay in barrels in the clay room and mixed his own clay there for a couple of decades is in his 80's and is still potting. My point here being that while the almost complete unconcern for the dangers of silica dust and other harmful dusts in the ceramic labs of the '70s was out of ignorance that is shocking today had those studios really been as dangerous as some nervous Nellies believe today, we would all have been dead long ago.

BTW, RDWolff mentions acetone. I paid for my first year of college by working at a factory that made bombs for Vietnam. At lunchtime we washed our hands and faces in acetone to get paint off. Other than loosing half my brain I've suffered no ill effects so far.

Jim

Yeah, I've become a bit more cautious, when it comes to have my students reclaim clay. I used to have them work in pulverized bone dry clay, to dry out the reclaim faster, but it did make a dusty mess. No one really ever had a problem with it. I had students, and other teachers, with dust allergies, that would come in, and have no issues. My co-worker, with whom I shared a classroom, seemed to develop and allergy to clay, as I refined the process, and made it cleaner (less dust)....Weird.

Acetone is nasty stuff. We used it in to do transfers in Lithography, in college. We were required to wear a respirator, when handling it. Pretty much any of the related solvents are just horrible, but sometimes necessary. I've tried using safer methods for cleaning up grease based media, and they just don't work as well. I used baby oil to clean up after silk screening, and while it works to some extent, I found myself going over it all, with a solvent.

Try mixing the baby oil with regular dish detergent, it helps. I used to do calliographs using masonite and mesh curtain fabric, lace etc filling with layers of polymer medium. Mixed veggie crisco with the ink for easier wiping, used the mix mentioned to clean up. Worked pretty well.

Very nice, thank you. I've got a few tricks, I've picked up, in my few years teaching. But I've still got a lot to learn.

You know what, all of you wise guys, this is exactly why I don't post on forums. Some people are serious about serious issues. I have a great sense of humor but do not find humor in issues regarding
health concerns. I simply posed a few points for curiosity's sake and know there are quite a few experts here. That's all.

There's no safety risk with putting your hand in a bucket of glaze, assuming it's not full of lead and you don't have a lot of open wounds on your hands. You just have to wash your handsafter you're done. Common sense rules.

You know what, all of you wise guys, this is exactly why I don't post on forums. Some people are serious about serious issues. I have a great sense of humor but do not find humor in issues regardinghealth concerns. I simply posed a few points for curiosity's sake and know there are quite a few experts here. That's all.

I, too, am pretty new in ceramics. I take courses at my college as well as a local studio and both seem to have the same stance on safety in the studio--common sense. Recently, I have noticed a lot of people being overly cautious (as many have stated) as if they are just trying to find something unsafe in ceramics. If you look hard enough, you can find something wrong with anything. The way I see it, if I survived my chemistry lab class, ceramics should be fine. One thing I do, however, is mix my own glazes. I like to know exactly what I am dealing with and that is not always the case when buying commercial. However, glaze formulation is one of my favorite parts of the process.

If you really enjoy ceramics, don't throw it aside because of this test. Considering the amount of people working in clay, says something on its own in terms of whether it is hazardous or not. I know you said ceramics is your only change in routine, but its really hard to know for sure if that is the source considering all of the other "hazards" we are exposed to daily. Besides, if you haven't had a thallium test in over a year, its even harder to pin point what you could be exposed to in that span of time besides ceramics. And I don't think anyone takes health concerns unseriously here it just comes to a point where it gets a bit rediculous. There are plenty of threads with safety advice, may want to skim through those.

Also, don't write off anyone over a comment on the internet. Everyone is bound to get poked and prodded on a public forum