Horace Grant was not a top power Forward in his day, he was a product of his environment, he put up very solid numbers playing with Jordan and Pippen, he played solid defence and could run the floor. The biggest difference between the two players is that Grant was more fluid and could hit a jumper, Davis is a better shot blocker who plays a little more near the hoop. I did not mean to say Grant and Davis play the same, rather that, given the right situation, Ed could have a similar impact to Grant.

Grant was a much better (an instinctive) rebounder - not even close, solid jump shooter, could defend the dominant pf's of the time. He was intense, had great basketball iq and was a good passer out of the post. I'd say he was in the top quarter of NBA power forwards, when at his best.

That to me does not make me think: "ed davis".

4 times all defense, an allstar 1 year (during a golden age for pf's), solid 14ppg 10rb guy playing w 2 guys who were always first and second option. When Jordan left it was the pippen and horrace show and they were still very competitive. 4 times NBA champions, 6 times NBA finals.

And HG was never a project. He was NBA solid right away. Just don't see the comparison.

6. Best Of The Night
Ed Davis, Raptors: The versatile big man showed off all his skills in the Toronto Raptors' 86-76 loss to the Dallas Mavericks. Davis scored 23 points on 9-for-14 shooting from the field to go along with seven rebounds and played assertively in the paint all afternoon.

"That was Nasty right? Cocked that Joint back and banged on 'em." -James Johnson

Grant was a much better (an instinctive) rebounder - not even close, solid jump shooter, could defend the dominant pf's of the time. He was intense, had great basketball iq and was a good passer out of the post. I'd say he was in the top quarter of NBA power forwards, when at his best.

That to me does not make me think: "ed davis".

4 times all defense, an allstar 1 year (during a golden age for pf's), solid 14ppg 10rb guy playing w 2 guys who were always first and second option. When Jordan left it was the pippen and horrace show and they were still very competitive. 4 times NBA champions, 6 times NBA finals.

And HG was never a project. He was NBA solid right away. Just don't see the comparison.

Can you read all of what I am saying? I am not comparing them as players. I am using Grant as a player that Ed COULD (not will) have a similar impact to. I don't think it will be on this Raptors team, but in the right situation and with a little more development he could be a 12 and 10 player with 1.5 blocks on a good team.

I can guarantee that had Horace Grant been picked by any other team than the Bulls he would not have had the same career. Jordan made him the player he was, he pushed him during the season to workout hard and even harder in the off-season. Those first few years being on Mike's team paid off big time.

I'm thinking Ed's ceiling is Dale Davis (if he can fill out his frame). He'll be very valuable to any team as a strong rebounder and post defender/shot blocker. But he's way too raw offensively to be ever given any post possessions.

think about how much better he'll be now that he has a bit of a jump shot? last year he was borderline useless on offense and it was almost like playing 4 on 5. the jumper he's added is really eye opening, not to mention how decisive he's been. i said it last year, if Ed was just more aggressive he'd be a completely different player and thus far he has been.

yes yes its summer league and we'll see what he actually does when he's not playing against scrubs but it seems the mentality is there, and that was always half the battle with Ed.

think about how much better he'll be now that he has a bit of a jump shot? last year he was borderline useless on offense and it was almost like playing 4 on 5. the jumper he's added is really eye opening, not to mention how decisive he's been. i said it last year, if Ed was just more aggressive he'd be a completely different player and thus far he has been.

yes yes its summer league and we'll see what he actually does when he's not playing against scrubs but it seems the mentality is there, and that was always half the battle with Ed.

I agree. Had Davis not gotten injured his first summer with the Raps and actually been able to have 2 full training camps, I think he would have already supplanted Amir as the backup PF. That's why all season and still now, I'm hoping that it's Amir that gets traded to clear the backup PF logjam, rather than Davis.

Can you read all of what I am saying? I am not comparing them as players. I am using Grant as a player that Ed COULD (not will) have a similar impact to. I don't think it will be on this Raptors team, but in the right situation and with a little more development he could be a 12 and 10 player with 1.5 blocks on a good team.

Had me.

WJF wrote:

I can guarantee that had Horace Grant been picked by any other team than the Bulls he would not have had the same career. Jordan made him the player he was, he pushed him during the season to workout hard and even harder in the off-season. Those first few years being on Mike's team paid off big time.

Lost me.

I agree that if Ed shows more of what he did yesterday, a willingness to learn, picking up his dribble, passing to a guard instead of losing it by trying to do to much, makes a decent percentage of mid range jumpers, goes up strong rather than putting up lame flailing shots due to shying away from contact, that he could be a 12 and 8 player. Right now Ed is a rotation player, with some decent RAW talent. As a 3rd year pro, he still hasnt put on the muscle he'll need to be successful as a PF given his body type and athleticism (he's not going to jump over people, isnt explosive). I'm not saying I dont think he can be a better player, I do...and watching yesterdays game in particular left me quite optimistic.

Your second point is so sloppy. You can guarantee huh? Woah, okay then. Point made I guess.

Before this goes completely off the rails, I think Ed has upside/potential to be a better nba player, sure, and yes I'd prefer if possible for the raps to benefit from that rather than another team (unless we get significantly better through a trade), but he has a ways to go. And I think Horrace Grant is an obscure and poor comparable, however you want to compare them. Aren't there other 15 & 11 or 14 and 10 guys you could suggest Ed "COULD" have a similar impact to, if you're not comparing their play stylistically at all because they're obviously quite disimilar players?

Them's fightin' words, bud. To paraphrase a certain Vice-Presidential candidate talking about JFK: I knew Anthony Mason. I was a friend of Anthony Mason. Ed is no Mase. Mase was a fucking animal with a chip on his shoulder the size of Wisconsin. He was mean. He would not be denied. He had a huge heart.

Well said.

The only thing Ed is sure to do better than Mase ever did is block shot.

He can at least be a guy who plays in the NBA for a long time, and averages around 10pt/10rb per game, with a couple of blocks / changed shots per game as well. He won't be a statistically amazing player, but he can definitely have a big impact on games with those abilities.

Getting a guy who can do this at his draft position is pretty damn good, in my opinion. He just needs to go ahead and work for it.

There is a reason Ed was not a top 5 pick.
BUT: If he can give us 10-12 mins at 4 & 5 & put up close to 10/10 with some blocks -I'd call it an excellent pick.
BTW -he is fairly close to above. Considering he is yet to have a full training camp, I'd say Ed was more than worth the 13 pick.
WRT poor jump shot: so what. Let him hang around basket more -there are a lot more rebounds there than 15 feet away.
Lets not forget: Ed is a solid (and very deceptive) shot blocker.

There is a reason Ed was not a top 5 pick.
BUT: If he can give us 10-12 mins at 4 & 5 & put up close to 10/10 with some blocks -I'd call it an excellent pick.
BTW -he is fairly close to above. Considering he is yet to have a full training camp, I'd say Ed was more than worth the 13 pick.
WRT poor jump shot: so what. Let him hang around basket more -there are a lot more rebounds there than 15 feet away.
Lets not forget: Ed is a solid (and very deceptive) shot blocker.

Averaging 10 rebounds is a very difficult task. Last year there were only 8 guys that averaged 10 rebounds or more, and the year before that only 7 guys. And each one of those guys played more than 30 minutes.

To average 10 rebounds in 10-12 minutes is insane. Not even sure if there is an opportunity for 10 boards in 12 minutes, unless Ed keeps bricking his shots to get his own rebound.

There is a reason Ed was not a top 5 pick.
BUT: If he can give us 10-12 mins at 4 & 5 & put up close to 10/10 with some blocks -I'd call it an excellent pick.
BTW -he is fairly close to above. Considering he is yet to have a full training camp, I'd say Ed was more than worth the 13 pick.
WRT poor jump shot: so what. Let him hang around basket more -there are a lot more rebounds there than 15 feet away.
Lets not forget: Ed is a solid (and very deceptive) shot blocker.

James Johnson was also a solid shot blocker but yet, not a very good defender.

The difference between JJ and ED is JJ was a gambler while ED was simply lost in (defensive) rotations. Of the two problems, I think the latter is easier to fix assuming the player is able to learn at a decent pace. That, from my perspective, has yet to be proven or showed to be false; ED missed his first training camp due to an injury and had very little practice time in his second season due to the lockout.

The Raptors will be in a much position to evaluate ED this year. While I am doubtful he will ever be an average quality starter, I think he has a good shot at becoming a solid rotation player for years to come. Not a bad return at all for a player picked 13.

Funny how you still have Forbesy as your avatar! Awesome! As for Davis, this is the only year for him to make something of himself. No other team is going to give him a leash this long.

“The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King