Originally posted by MasonicFantom
Does anyone think UFO phenomenon is new since the 40s? Or do you think it goes back further.

Imo, from much literary records of the ancient Indian Vedas + Alexander the Great recording "Flying shields, spitting fire" that the UFO phenomena
goes back thousands of year.

Sorry but as soon as I saw Maussan's face I stopped the video, I have no time for that fraud.

Ancient records seem to me to be a combination of things like representations of the sun, moon, and planets, or gods, or gods that represent the sun,
moon or planets, or spirits of their dead ascended into the afterlife.

There are also records of unusual events in the sky, like a supernova observed in 1054 by the Chinese that formed what we see today as the crab
nebula.

Also some ancient UFO descriptions appear to be shooting stars or fireballs from meteors. I suspect that's what this "UFO" is:

They probably saw other unusual things too. Here's one example of some UFOs they probably saw:

This photo was published in the January 8, 2005 edition of the Mexican newspaper El Imparcial.

Does anyone think UFO phenomenon is new since the 40s? Or do you think it goes back further.

It comes down to what you believe, and what you can believe, and what you want to believe, and what you actually know of history. The question of did
ufo's exist beyond the 40's seems to be... yes, they existed. UFO's and aliens were just a new way describing what people didn't know, but saw
once in a while in the sky. Plus the whole aliens from out space thing and way of thought that was going on at the time, not only in movies and
popular culture, but in the sciences as well, they were asking questions, in light of new evidence that we are just one planet floating in the void
among an uncountable other galaxies and solar systems on what was out there and what could be out here. And those questions go on today.

And once you really question history, then nothing really makes sense, but one thing is certain. It is not that hard to make false history and get a
large amount of people to believe it. And off-course all the things in religious and historical stories that can pertain to UFO's, but were expressed
in different ways, including as gods descending and all other things. In fact this word "GOD" or "GOD'S" if you really think about it is
in-bedded into our very mind's and way of thought, but do we know how it actually came about?

What is a god? How would a primitive species such as early man come up with such a word and concept? If you think about it, it is strange. Sure
there is the whole mystery of the unknown that we could describe as god or in the realm of the gods, and primal forces could even be explained, as
the work of these gods, just an explanation of the unknown's of our world. But then again if you were to take a creature such as a human, and from
primitive times, when its a unthinking animal an let it evolve naturally in the many hundreds of thousands of years to millions, of trial and error,
would it come to such a believe as the god's did it, and how come other primates didn't evolve any concepts over there small group concepts that
they live by, you know the leader of the pack the alpha wolf and all that, even in monkeys and chimps you see that.

There seems to be much more going on then just brain size and having hands going on here on this planet that put humanity at the pinnacle, and were
we are at now, and this word "god" could be more then just a catalyst on the thought patterns of primitives to look beyond there little world. There
could of actually have been such things as the god's descending from the sky, in some long forgotten time in our history who may have done something,
and could even be going on today. Who really knows, it seems to be all speculations for now. How many years does it take for a primitive creature to
look up and wonder why and how? thousands of years like the history books say humans did, or millions of years even, because there have been other
species for far longer on this planet that thrived for way longer periods of time then humans, just look at the dinosaurs, by the timeline that they
were alive you would think that they would evolve to something a little more then just animals killing each-other everyday for millions and millions
of years, or the whole chimp and other primate's thing, they have been around for as long as humans, and yet nothing much happened in all that time
to them, what they got the short end of the stick, if so then who is giving these sticks out? Nature and the randomness of evolution, just does not
fit the shoe, as well as it used to.

I know how you feel regards the fellow in the video. I feel the same way about Greer and Collier and all the other earners in the game. However,
moving beyond the prattle at the beginning of the video, there is compelling footage, and I for one havent seen anything as perplexing as that side by
side of both videos for quite some time. I would urge you to get past your nemesis and observe with a keen eye, the content of the video.
It is not your run of the mill lights in the sky BS we are so used to.

I knew it likely was mentioned on this site before, I don't think ever with the 1560s Germany correlation though between eerily identical crafts
(albeit I did not look through all 88 pages of the above link simply because I don't have that much time).

Interesting feedback so far guys. It's unfortunate for personal judgement on individuals but try not letting that make you prejudice towards any
information just because that person is presenting it.

@Galad, what do you think of our ancestors' "gods" not being modeled after planets, but after extraterrestrial visitations or phenomena? In the Old
Testament, angels for example had physical bodies, sexual intercourse w/women, telepathy and many other physical traits that an entirely spiritual
being would not possess. There is also of course thousands of ancient Indian scriptures (the Vedas) that detail Vimanas (flying craft), ancient aerial
wars between gods (using weapons similar to nuclear armaments) & even the mentioning of extraterrestrial planets and governments in very technical
detail. So much detail in fact that Verner Von Braun, Herman Oberth and Robert J. Oppenheimer, Frederick Soddy etc. all gave credit to them & could
not deny that there was visitation or that mankind had harnessed the power of the atom before (these are men responsible for the space & atomic age).
I think this is a possibility to consider, especially with physical evidence supporting some of these ancient documents (several ancient cities found,
e.g. Harappa and Mohenjo-daro containing vitrified earth and irradiated corpses--both at the levels of post Hiroshima & Nagasaki).

This vid I am positive was posted on this site before. But it's related to Mexico's recent UFO sightings, so here that is. They were invisible except
in infrared. This time they're confirmed by the air force.

IMO all of these sightings started on the 1st January 1940. To suggest that our ancestors had any knowledge of this kind of thing is proposturous and
anyone that says otherwise must have their head examined.

I'm certain Verner Von Braun, Herman Oberth and Robert J. Oppenheimer, Frederick Soddy & more were not by any means fools considering their
significant contribution to technological evolution.

I will post some quotes here. Please note: these quotes do not even give the full story of their actions (as actions cannot be quoted). To give a
sense of how serious Von Braun, Oberth, even Hitler, took the ancient Vedas (& Sumerian texts)--they created technical translations of them & used
them as schematics, resulting in a quantum leap in aeronautics, rocketry & even space stations (which they were already planning at the end of WWII).
The actions of such deeds can be found here in a 45 min documentary in 3 parts. www.youtube.com... Please watch & then come
back prepared to make comments when you're more informed. I can also make mention of far older credible people with UFO sightings, such as Alexander
the Great www.youtube.com... Christopher Columbus etc., but there would be far too many. I do not think all of these
incredible historical figures were incorrect.

Frederick Soddy:
In 1909 when the power of the atom was first being realized, physicist Frederick Soddy wrote in his Interpretation of Radium: "I believe that there
have been civilizations in the past that were familiar with atomic energy, and that by misusing it they were totally destroyed."

Robert J. Oppenheimer, "father of the atomic bomb":
"We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried. Most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu
scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita; Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty, and to impress him, takes on his multi-armed form
and says, 'Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.' I suppose we all thought that, one way or another"

Werner Von Braun:
"We find ourselves faced by powers which are far stronger than we had hitherto assumed, and whose base is at present unknown to us. More I cannot say
at present. We are now engaged in entering into closer contact with those powers, and in six or nine months time it may be possible to speak with some
precision on the matter."

"Wernher Von Braun knew about the extraterrestrial issue." -- Dr. Carol Rosin spokesperson for Wernher Von Braun last years of his life.

Hermann Oberth:
"we cannot take credit for our record advancement in certain scientific fields alone. We have been helped by the peoples of other worlds." (26)
Collyns, Robin, 'Did Spacemen Colonise the Earth? p. 236, Pelham Books, London 1974

"[UFOs] are conceived and directed by intelligent beings of a very high order, and they are propelled by distorting the gravitational field,
converting gravity into useable energy.
There is no doubt in my mind that these objects are interplanetary craft of some sort. I and my colleagues are confident that they do not originate in
our solar system."

Why is he a fraud? Ive seen a few UFO conference's that he's done and he always seem to present some very good information, photo's, video's etc.
Why the fraudster?

As for the above video i personnally think its not a UFO. Is there anything important being said in the Video. Dont know any Spanish. It looks like
some experimental device, not really sure what but something along these lines, not a alien craft/unkown goverment craft.

That UFO vid is legit. I watched a show on video analysis of it and it came back clean & not a hoax.

So it's either an advanced human craft (doing who knows what over Mexico) or it's ET or interdimensional.

The fact there's depictions & descriptions of this same type of craft in the 1500s leads me to believe the UFO phenomena is way older than the 1940s
(especially with the stuff MasonicFantom mentioned in his last post).

Some races are probably hundreds of thousands of years more advance than us. Many people make the mistake of thinking aliens are only 100-200 yrs more
advance (due to hollywood sh1t), but that's just arrogance because it could be far, far longer. We'd maybe not even be able to conceptually understand
them. There's likely trillions of them out there and just 1 of them is more intelligent than the collective intelligence of all 6 billion humans on
this planet...so there's a point of perspective.

It doesn't matter if you quote 1000 quotes, you cannot prove to me that that ET has been around longer than the 1st january 1940 any more than I can
prove to you. I am saying that I catergorically say without any hesitation that ET were not around before 1940 unless you prove to me otherwise. I
admit that the egyptian culture is interesting and indeed so are the mayans but surely if ET were around then we would know about it by now?

By that measure of proof franspeakfree, do you examine the evidence circumstantial though it may be? Its true that there is no real evidence to back
up the ancient alien theory, but that said, even with all our video footage,snapshots of half seen events, hoaxes and cover ups, we cannot prove
anything post 1940 either.

Indeed we can't it would be much easier to say that there are no such things as aliens and ufo's and go about our normal day to day business and
forget anything ever happened. Nice and comfortable in our bubbles of ignorance aye.

If you ever see this guy talking about his fleets of UFOs (i.e. balloon releases)...just run the other way...

As for this...

This vid I am positive was posted on this site before. But it's related to Mexico's recent UFO sightings, so here that is. They were
invisible except in infrared. This time they're confirmed by the air force.

Unfortunately, this is most likely footage of the Campeche offshore oil rigs. The heat from the flames at the top of the rigs is what is seen in the
infrared (and you can even see the reflection in the water).. Seems these pilots didn't know their up from their down. There's likely a few threads
here illustrating the position of the rigs (and pattern) and how it corresponds to the lights.

Originally posted by WingedBull
I believe the1561 "UFO battle" over Nuremberg was actually a fireworks display, misinterpreted and exaggerated in the intervening five years when the
broadsheet and woodcarving were produced.

This comment sounds ignorant.
This is right after the event. People were scared #less & they were not so stupid to mistake "fireworks" for canon shaped objects in the sky launching
spheres that clashed with each other & made turns in mid-air.

The author of the Gazette warned its readers: "The God-fearing will by no means discard these signs, but will take it to heart as a warning of their
merciful Annunciation with St. Emidius Father in heaven, will mend their lives and faithfully beg God, that he avert His wrath, including the
well-deserved punishment, on us, so that we may, temporarily here and perpetually there, live as His children."

According to the Nuremberg Gazette, the "dreadful apparition" filled the morning sky with "cylindrical shapes from which emerged black, red, orange
and blue-white spheres that darted about." Between the spheres, there were "crosses with the color of blood." (i.e. red crosses) This "frightful
spectacle" was witnessed by "numerous men and women." Afterwards, a "black, spear-like object" appeared.

5 yrs later at a similar event in Switzerland. Again, it's in their gazette the day after.

www.altereddimensions.net...
A similar reporting occurred just five years later in Basle Switzerland. On August 7, 1566, at dawn, many citizens of Basle (Switzerland), frightened,
saw during several hours the black spheres involved in a formidable aerial battle, invading the sky of their city: The city's gazette recorded: At the
time when the sun rose, one saw many large black balls which moved at high speed in the air towards the sun, then made half-turns, banging one against
the others as if they were fighting a battle out a combat, a great number of them became red and igneous, thereafter they were consumed and died
out.

@ thinking those 11 UFOs were oil rigs. That sounds like a good cover up story. If that were the case, they would not be keeping up with jets in
mid-flight or surpassing them (as oil rigs are stationary). I remember Michio Kaku making a comment about that. I'd go with Mexico's air force on this
one. They were by definition "UFOs".

BTW if you discount ancient alien intervention then you also discount modern aliens. As there's no "solid" proof of either. I'd actually say there's
more ancient proof than modern myself (from knowing much history). However, if that's the case, why is this site even made? Just so people can say
"There's no proof there's aliens" whenever someone shows some information? If that's the case, you can say the same thing on every topic & just doom
the whole subject.

Originally posted by TheLegend
@ thinking those 11 UFOs were oil rigs. That sounds like a good cover up story. If that were the case, they would not be keeping up with jets in
mid-flight or surpassing them (as oil rigs are stationary). I remember Michio Kaku making a comment about that. I'd go with Mexico's air force on
this one. They were by definition "UFOs".

If Venus can chase a plane, why can't a distant oil rig?

Of course they don't really chase the plane, but to the pilot, it looks that way.

Originally posted by TheLegend
This comment sounds ignorant.
This is right after the event. People were scared #less & they were not so stupid to mistake "fireworks" for canon shaped objects in the sky
launching spheres that clashed with each other & made turns in mid-air.

The broadsheet describing the event was not produced "right after" but five
years after the fact. Interestingly enough, Nuremberg was one of the centers of European centers of gunpowder research.

Originally posted by TheLegend
5 yrs later at a similar event in Switzerland. Again, it's in their gazette the day after.

Nothing here says it was reported in the newspaper the day after. And it is very doubtful that it would be; there we no daily gazettes during that
period. By coincidence, the broadsheet describing the Nuremberg event was produced the same year as the supposed Basle event.

Originally posted by TheLegend
@ thinking those 11 UFOs were oil rigs. That sounds like a good cover up story. If that were the case, they would not be keeping up with jets in
mid-flight or surpassing them (as oil rigs are stationary).

The lights in the video are not actually moving. It is an optical illusion caused by the movement of the (apparent) clouds between the plane and the
lights. Cover the clouds in the video and you will see the lights are moving.

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