Funny to think that she will keep having votes on the same thing until she gets the "right" result. Precisely the sentiment expressed by fear-laden brexiteers when there's a suggestion of another referendum...

“Much unhappiness has come into the world because of bewilderment and things left unsaid.” ? Fyodor Dostoevsky “It's funny. All you have to do is say something nobody understands and they'll do practically anything you want them to.” ? J.D. Salinger, The Catcher in the Rye

May should not bring her deal back to parliament for a third vote until she has pulled her finger out and caught up with ALL the legislative programme that has been on the back burner - including the care act green paper which is nearly 2 years late already. Until then we stay in the EU - NOT NEGOTIABLE.

I can't say about any mudcatters, but Nigel Farage has been pretty clear he has no intention of doing it. Photo-ops at the start, end, and perhaps a couple along the way, but the idea of dong the whole thing - no way!

i see nigel farage and chums have set off from sunderland on an epic march for brexit and freedom. are any mudcatters accompanying the nicotine-stained man frog? can anyone update us on their progress? How many pubs passed so far?

You may remember Tim Martin decided to go round his pubs giving speeches in favour of Brexit. It is *just* possible, is it not, that some remainers decided to drink elsewhere as a consequence? Or that people in general don't want to be lectured when they go out for an evening out?

Pubs in general are not doing well, but for those I have seen, Martin's baby is doing appreciably less well than the average.

I think Bercow will have to allow MV3 - it's encoded in the motion that passed yesterday. This from the Guardian at lunchtime Thursday 14th, i.e. before the results were decided:

> Parliament will vote on a motion that sets next Wednesday as the deadline for MPs to pass a Brexit deal. If a deal is passed by then, the government will seek an extension of article 50 until 30 June. But if the deal is not passed by then, the government will need a longer extension, requiring the UK to take part in European elections.

The European Council is meeting on the 21st. So there won't even be time for a MV4. I think that's why Bercow was being so cagey in his wording.

DMcG:Sorry Nigel, but the odds now that your prediction that we would leave on 29th March and mine that we would still be in a state of uncertainty on 1st April currently looks in my favour. Actually, we could both be right :)

Some of the right wing press is reporting that with the defeat of the amendment calling for a second referendum, this is no longer an option.

This is mindless balderdash. What Brexit (or indeed its revocation) is deciding is the long term relationship between the UK and the EU. A referendum can never BE that: no-one sensibly claimed it could. A second referendum is a mechanism to choose between alternative relationships. It is not, once again, a relationship in itself.

I do not support a second referendum for the same reasons I did not support the first: it is something Parliamentarians should decide. But if they cannot, votes not withstanding, SOME means of deciding is required and a referendum is one of the few choices available.

Also, that part of the press is tends to ignore that the groups arguing for a public vote requested this should not be voted on at this time, and that was clearly stated several times during the debate itself. That, along with some parliamentary rules about amendments led to Labour abstaining en mass. It takes a deliberate obtuseness to claim this shows there is no support for the idea.

Ms May's hopes of persuading Eurosceptics and the DUP were dealt a hammer blow after the so-called star chamber of Brexiteer lawyers rejected attorney general Geoffrey Cox's latest assessment.

Led by veteran Tory Sir Bill Cash, the group said his idea that the UK could use the Vienna Convention - the international agreement that lays down the rules about treaties - to unilaterally pull out of the backstop was "badly misconceived".

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It will be even harder to claim something has changed now as justification for Bercow to allow MV3. He will, I an sure, but I think evwryone will try to avoid explaining on what grounds.

In America we have a birthdate for the United States. It's when we offically thumbed our nose at you guys. But who did you guys thumb your noses at? The Romans? The French? Actually it was kind of the other way around. The took Caratacus back home and paraded him through the streets in a Triumph. The French arrived (as Normans) and taught you a new language. Which you successfully absorbed in one of the great turnabout conquests of all time. (Good job on that, by the way!)

If this vote was democratic in the first place it would have been based on full information of what people were voting for It was not democratic in any way, it was based on turning one group of people against the other - the worst kind of populism. The very first result of this was an immediate rise in racist incidents THat is now even been acknowledged by the extremist right who have realised the necessity to CLEAN UP THEIR IMAGE Jim Carroll

"Democracy provides for an electorate to change its opinion - that's why we have a General Election every five years. A Referendum is an expression of opinion at a fixed point in time, based on circumstances prevailing at that time. Should those circumstances change, it is not only democratic, but perfectly reasonable, to ask the electorate whether it still has the same opinion, or whether that opinion has changed.

The only 'extremists' around here are those who seek to deny the electorate its democratic right and the opportunity to either confirm its original opinion or change its mind.

Knife crime in the UK is a serious issue. 17.4,000,000 people were stabbed in the back yesterday.

"I know people voted for Brexit for a range of reasons, but many of us did so to regain sovereignty - i.e. to take back control from an EU political elite who seem arrogant, out of touch, incompetent, unaccountable and undemocratic. Can someone please help me understand why our own government would wish to inflame that sentiment and become the focus of it by thwarting Brexit through being arrogant, out of touch, incompetent, unaccountable and undemocratic?!?! Populism (actually anti-establishment-ism) is on the rise all across the West, and politicians seem astonishingly blind to their role in causing it."

I seem to recollect the gnome being publicly rebuked for his abysmal behaviour. The pots twould appear to vastly outnumber the "alleged " kettle. Your posts are all archived, even some you thought deleted!

So, having received no reply the first time (other than the usual abuse)m I'll ask again - why are the Brexshiteers, who constantly and vociferously proclaim their profound belief and faith in their perceived version of 'democracy', so fearful of granting the electorate their undeniable, actual democratic right to a re-vote in order to confirm their earlier opinion or, alternatively, demonstrate that they have changed their collective mind?

You're going to allow this offensive clown to close this thread if you're not careful Baccy

I do not believe I was the one recently called a bastard. Whoever it was must have been pretty offensive. I believe anyone studying the contributions by the usual suspects will find reams of offensive comments especially directed at the recently departed Keith.

One of the amendments being debated is from Chris Bryant sayingthat the May's deal should not be brought back before Parliament. I assume the reasons will be those in Erskine May. I would be very surprised if that amendment were to pass, but if it did I think Bercow would find himself obliged to require a more significant change than the "change of advice" fig-leaf. Even if rejected, it may mean bringing MV3 becomes the final chance: MV4 could find itself ruled out.

You're going to allow this offensive clown to close this thread if you're not careful Baccy - which would suit the rightists here right down to the ground Put yourself in their shoes; wouldn't you be embarrassed to see your Government disintegrating before your eyes and have to pretend all is well? Jim

I find it hilarious that the resident wannabe 'tough-guy' who is making scarcely-veiled threats of violence on this thread, is defecating building-blocks on another thread over the prospect of a 19-year-old girl, who is an abused, brainwashed rape-victim, being allowed to return to the UK - her country of birth - from Syria.

Just put it up o the Irish tread but worth repeating here as Ireland is the main issue of Brexit Michael Gove has announced that a Brexit crash-out will need to involve a re-establishment of Direct Rule from Westminster Britain's the interests of Britain and the Six Counties are to remain the same This is tantamount to throwing way all the gains thet have been made since The Good Friday Agreement and will almost inevitably bring violent conflict that much nearer Jim Carroll

Democracy provides for an electorate to change its opinion - that's why we have a General Election every five years. A Referendum is an expression of opinion at a fixed point in time, based on circumstances prevailing at that time. Should those circumstances change, it is not only democratic, but perfectly reasonable, to ask the electorate whether it still has the same opinion, or whether that opinion has changed.

The only 'extremists' around here are those who seek to deny the electorate its democratic right and the opportunity to either confirm its original opinion or change its mind.