Freakzilla wrote:No matter what developed IN the Scattering, they would never catch up with that ever expanding first wave.

Agreed.

Even if the SFDs managed to control space travel humanity still survives and the GP endures.

Agreed.

M&D don't seem bent on destroying humanity at all. Control it somewhat, maybe we don't know. They did say that they had a planet picked out for the people in the No-Ship but when they escaped they didn't seem too terribly upset about it.

I also don't get a malevolent intention from them. I think in some other thread I compared them to the BG in that they're farmers; in this case, of personas rather than of gene pools. But to me the issue isn't whether their actions have noble purpose or not, because Leto II had a noble purpose and I can well imagine that even so if someone tried to engage in hydrolic despotism again the various peoples involved would try to rebel. Leto's despotism was localized to a certain region of space, presumably, and didn't encompass 'infinite' expanses like what happened after the Scattering. But M&D could still enforce a despotism of that kind across any far reaches of space if enough like them were doing it and could yank any ship out of foldspace and route it wherever they want. I don't know if they had the manpower to yank ships out of foldspace if billions of ships suddenly tried to flee them. Maybe it's a question of brainpower rather than manpower since presumably they were mentats as well. I'm thinking they could.

So to me the issue isn't whether they wanted to harm humanity, per se, but whether they were trying to control it or maneuver it for some purpose. Maybe it's even a good purpose. From the perspective of the HM's they would simply be the enemy. To answer pcqypcqy's question above, yes, I think it's concluded definitively that the enemy of many faces are the ones the HM's are fleeing. The theme of the series seems to be - how can we get away from figures like Paul and Leto II, who can put a lockdown on all of humanity? If the SFD's have found a new way to do this (by preventing safe space travel) then their motive doesn't seem entirely relevant in terms of the fact that mankind is in a mess again now that this is possible to do. Not a deadly mess, since the species has spread too much, and presumably to places where they don't intend to use space travel anymore but just settle there. But still a mess.