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If you go on only winning % then it is no contest, Irvine is by far the worst. Bird by far the best.

And for those of us who remember the forgettable Irvine reign, we concur. Irvine had some good players in Kellogg, Stipo, Fleming, and others. Of course he had duds also, plenty of them. But he simply couldn't win much. Had a totally confusing rotation and insisted on playing guys that shot at the wrong basket and threw the ball out of bounds whenever they touched it or fouled for the fun of it. Not that he can control everything a player does, but he didn't seem to have an issue with poor play.

JOB was a poor coach. He used a style of hard nosed coaching that no longer fits in todays NBA. He might do better in college or High School. I never really understood his handling of players (like TJ and Murphy).

But JOB is a recent memory. Irvine is not, in fact he is not even a memory to most on this board.

Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

George Irvine was the worst, by a country mile.

His roster was bad, but he was even worse. 52-130 over 2+ seasons.

And think about his roster, both of his starting forwards and his backup C all played together at Ohio State, and managed to go a whopping 9-9 against the Big Ten. Talk about an unimpressive NBA front court. So George didn't have much to work with, but those teams were wretched.

And even then, rumor has it that when George was "fired" to the front office, that he was the one pushing for the Rifleman-Williams for A piece of Pooh and Spare Change trade.

Just awful.

Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

didn't versace get in some kind of 'high school girl fight' [not a PC name, open to a better suggestion] with the IndyStar guys. I remember something about him using practice time to sit in a circle with the team and talk about not talking to the press.

Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

Not that I think he would qualify but thought for sure we'd get at least an Isaiah Thomas mention by this point.

I think "frustrating to remember" and bad coaching aren't quite the same. Thomas isn't the worst, but because of the high potential and the knowledge that we could have had Carlise several years early bugs me.

Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

seeing as i was maybe 2 years old when versace was canned......

still JOB.

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Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

I'm sure that I'm in the minority, but I didn't think Versace was a bad coach. He had a terrible team that wasn't going anywhere but at least he played his young players. Det and Michael Williams really played well for him.
I'm old enough to remember the ABA but to young to know what I'm talking about in regards to players or coaches. For my money JOB has been the worse coach we've had in the NBA.

Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

I'm sure that I'm in the minority, but I didn't think Versace was a bad coach. He had a terrible team that wasn't going anywhere but at least he played his young players. Det and Michael Williams really played well for him.
I'm old enough to remember the ABA but to young to know what I'm talking about in regards to players or coaches. For my money JOB has been the worse coach we've had in the NBA.

Not to nitpick too much, but Versace was fired 25 games into the 1990-91 season, Micheal Willams' first season with the Pacers. Micheal appeared in 21 of those 25 games for a total of about 250 minutes for Versace. Vern got hurt in January of that season, after Bo Hill took over, and that's when Micheal moved into the starting lineup and blossomed. He did play his young players. The season before, Versace's full season on the job, Reggie was third in the league in minutes played, but really faded down the stretch as the Pacers limped into the playoffs and got slaughtered by the Pistons.

Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

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Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

I have a painful question to ask. If you had to sign a coach to a 4 year guaranteed contract...and only Jim O'Brien and Isaiah Thomas were the options....who would be coach? Both are bad, but I think I'd prefer Zeke. Jim was just too frustrating and at least the players like Zeke (or at least JO).

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Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

Players developed under Zeke, so I'd go with him. But he couldn't coach, and I give the credit to his assistants (remember, he had 491 of them.)

Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

Not to nitpick too much, but Versace was fired 25 games into the 1990-91 season, Micheal Willams' first season with the Pacers. Micheal appeared in 21 of those 25 games for a total of about 250 minutes for Versace. Vern got hurt in January of that season, after Bo Hill took over, and that's when Micheal moved into the starting lineup and blossomed. He did play his young players. The season before, Versace's full season on the job, Reggie was third in the league in minutes played, but really faded down the stretch as the Pacers limped into the playoffs and got slaughtered by the Pistons.

I'm not bothering to look up minutes or stats, just going off memory. Due to the company I worked for I was able to attend most games for free back then. I remember watching Williams and Det playing some good games under Versace. Versace came in to where I worked several times and it was good to talk Pacers with him. There weren't a lot of fans at that point. He was a good guy and I don't think a bad coach. He just had a bad team that hadn't came together and got on the wrong side of the media.
Like I said, I know I'm in the minority. I can't remember anyone from that era liking Versace.

Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

In my lifetime (I was born in '85), I think it's a tossup between Isiah and JOB. Me, personally, I would go with Isiah. Putting things into perspective--my basketball viewing lifetime has been pretty good for Pacers coaches. Larry Brown, Larry Bird, Isiah Thomas, Rick Carlisle, JOB, Frank Vogel. Four superb coaches (in my estimation), and two stinkers. I'll take that.

Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

I'm not bothering to look up minutes or stats, just going off memory. Due to the company I worked for I was able to attend most games for free back then. I remember watching Williams and Det playing some good games under Versace. Versace came in to where I worked several times and it was good to talk Pacers with him. There weren't a lot of fans at that point. He was a good guy and I don't think a bad coach. He just had a bad team that hadn't came together and got on the wrong side of the media.
Like I said, I know I'm in the minority. I can't remember anyone from that era liking Versace.

See, that's what I don't get. When those two guys were together, they got off to a 3-1 start, then went 6-15 over the next 21. With a team that Versace had led to the playoffs the year before. They made no roster moves after firing Versace and Bo Hill got them back to 0.500 by going 32-25 (56%) the rest of the way. You sure you're talking about Versace?

Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you