jnelson203

IMarks

A few years ago I bought a quad-core HP computer here on Woot, and, like this one, it was a refurbished model. At first I was very happy with it. In fact, I even left positive comments when more HP refurbs came up on Woot. However, after less than a year the computer died, taking all of my precious data with it. I later learned that this model used a motherboard (manufactured by a company called Pegatron) with a notoriously high failure rate -- something like 85%. Essentially, I had purchased a ticking bomb, and of course, I was SOL as far as warranty coverage was concerned. (I should mention that the people at HP offer excellent customer service when their products are actually under warranty, and their Workstation computers -- which are built to a higher standard than these consumer models -- are just about bullet-proof.) I was able to salvage the power supply, hard drive, processor, and RAM for another project, but that's little compensation for the frustration and data loss I endured. I may eventually re-use the HP's case, even though it places the micro-ATX motherboard upside-down from its traditional orientation. However, from now on, I'll be extremely reluctant to buy a refurbished computer with an abbreviated or non-existent warranty. I should have done my homework. The HP I bought on Woot was an impulse purchase, and it turned out to be a very expensive mistake.

Aldasheeki

IMarks wrote:A few years ago I bought a quad-core HP computer here on Woot, and, like this one, it was a refurbished model. At first I was very happy with it. In fact, I even left positive comments when more HP refurbs came up on Woot. However, after less than a year the computer died, taking all of my precious data with it. I later learned that this model used a motherboard (manufactured by a company called Pegatron) with a notoriously high failure rate -- something like 85%. Essentially, I had purchased a ticking bomb, and of course, I was SOL as far as warranty coverage was concerned. (I should mention that the people at HP offer excellent customer service when their products are actually under warranty, and their Workstation computers -- which are built to a higher standard than these consumer models -- are just about bullet-proof.) I was able to salvage the power supply, hard drive, processor, and RAM for another project, but that's little compensation for the frustration and data loss I endured. I may eventually re-use the HP's case, even though it places the micro-ATX motherboard upside-down from its traditional orientation. However, from now on, I'll be extremely reluctant to buy a refurbished computer with an abbreviated or non-existent warranty. I should have done my homework. The HP I bought on Woot was an impulse purchase, and it turned out to be a very expensive mistake.

Refurbs are risky, especially for expensive consumer electronic products. I bought a Lenovo desktop from a different deal-of-the-day site and experienced similar problems. The motherboard had issues after just 2 years, and it wasn't even a refurb.. it was new. I couldn't salvage the case (due to proprietary cables) so I'm spending $100 on a new motherboard and a standard case. Bottom line: computers are bad impulse buys.

coctyle

IMarks wrote:A few years ago I bought a quad-core HP computer here on Woot, and, like this one, it was a refurbished model. At first I was very happy with it. In fact, I even left positive comments when more HP refurbs came up on Woot. However, after less than a year the computer died, taking all of my precious data with it. I later learned that this model used a motherboard (manufactured by a company called Pegatron) with a notoriously high failure rate -- something like 85%. Essentially, I had purchased a ticking bomb, and of course, I was SOL as far as warranty coverage was concerned. (I should mention that the people at HP offer excellent customer service when their products are actually under warranty, and their Workstation computers -- which are built to a higher standard than these consumer models -- are just about bullet-proof.) I was able to salvage the power supply, hard drive, processor, and RAM for another project, but that's little compensation for the frustration and data loss I endured. I may eventually re-use the HP's case, even though it places the micro-ATX motherboard upside-down from its traditional orientation. However, from now on, I'll be extremely reluctant to buy a refurbished computer with an abbreviated or non-existent warranty. I should have done my homework. The HP I bought on Woot was an impulse purchase, and it turned out to be a very expensive mistake.

barkusmasta

Personal opinion: I've had nothing but bad experiences fixing HP desktops for friends and family. Back in the day they were solid but now I think HP should stick to what it does well and that's enterprise class servers. I wonder how much longer AMD will be around? Too bad there's only a few players in the chip manufacturing game.

Ezpcconcepts

I had the same thought... I have purchased 8 HPs via woot and have not had any one of the fail... still using the quad core I purchased here that came with Windows Vista... as is the case with any item new or refurbished your mileage will vary. I for one have no issue buying refurbished again nor recommending this woot. I may even purchase this one for a future HTPC project... just my experience and opinion.

cjsutherland

IMarks wrote:A few years ago I bought a quad-core HP computer here on Woot, and, like this one, it was a refurbished model. At first I was very happy with it. In fact, I even left positive comments when more HP refurbs came up on Woot. However, after less than a year the computer died, taking all of my precious data with it. I later learned that this model used a motherboard (manufactured by a company called Pegatron) with a notoriously high failure rate -- something like 85%. Essentially, I had purchased a ticking bomb, and of course, I was SOL as far as warranty coverage was concerned. (I should mention that the people at HP offer excellent customer service when their products are actually under warranty, and their Workstation computers -- which are built to a higher standard than these consumer models -- are just about bullet-proof.) I was able to salvage the power supply, hard drive, processor, and RAM for another project, but that's little compensation for the frustration and data loss I endured. I may eventually re-use the HP's case, even though it places the micro-ATX motherboard upside-down from its traditional orientation. However, from now on, I'll be extremely reluctant to buy a refurbished computer with an abbreviated or non-existent warranty. I should have done my homework. The HP I bought on Woot was an impulse purchase, and it turned out to be a very expensive mistake.

Replace the motherboard with a new FM2 socket motherboard from Newegg or TigerDirect. You don't have to spend over $60 or so if you don't want too.

That isn't hard. The tougher part is going to be getting Windows validated on the new setup.

lorenzodemedici

Since the OP says he saved the hard drive, you would think he didn't lose his data. Hard to understand, unless he's just engaging in hyperbole. Maybe some unusual failure of the motherboard that wiped the HD but didn't kill it. Anyway he makes his point. HP just assembles the computers, they don't make the parts. I think his point is to avoid computer models with a high failure rate. I've owned probably a dozen HPs and never had a motherboard failure on any of them.

This looks like a nice computer to me. Plenty of room to expand everything. The one problem I see is the 300w power supply. Not enough juice to run a big graphics card and a bunch of other add ons. You would probably have to put in a better power supply.

Kouga

cjsutherland

lorenzodemedici wrote:Since the OP says he saved the hard drive, you would think he didn't lose his data. Hard to understand, unless he's just engaging in hyperbole. Maybe some unusual failure of the motherboard that wiped the HD but didn't kill it. Anyway he makes his point. HP just assembles the computers, they don't make the parts. I think his point is to avoid computer models with a high failure rate. I've owned probably a dozen HPs and never had a motherboard failure on any of them.

This looks like a nice computer to me. Plenty of room to expand everything. The one problem I see is the 300w power supply. Not enough juice to run a big graphics card and a bunch of other add ons. You would probably have to put in a better power supply.

Yeah 300W isn't enough. Anyone buying this for "gaming" or the likes are making a mistake though IMO. Want an upgrade stick the A10-5800K CPU in it. Even then, of course, it isn't great for gaming. But you would be surprised at what you can get done with that APU on the graphics side.

Not telling you, I'm sure you knowm, just for those that aren't that computer saavy.

gak0090

IMarks wrote:A few years ago I bought a quad-core HP computer here on Woot, and, like this one, it was a refurbished model. At first I was very happy with it. In fact, I even left positive comments when more HP refurbs came up on Woot. However, after less than a year the computer died, taking all of my precious data with it. I later learned that this model used a motherboard (manufactured by a company called Pegatron) with a notoriously high failure rate -- something like 85%. Essentially, I had purchased a ticking bomb, and of course, I was SOL as far as warranty coverage was concerned. (I should mention that the people at HP offer excellent customer service when their products are actually under warranty, and their Workstation computers -- which are built to a higher standard than these consumer models -- are just about bullet-proof.) I was able to salvage the power supply, hard drive, processor, and RAM for another project, but that's little compensation for the frustration and data loss I endured. I may eventually re-use the HP's case, even though it places the micro-ATX motherboard upside-down from its traditional orientation. However, from now on, I'll be extremely reluctant to buy a refurbished computer with an abbreviated or non-existent warranty. I should have done my homework. The HP I bought on Woot was an impulse purchase, and it turned out to be a very expensive mistake.

Pegatron use to be a subsidary of Asustek (Asus). Motherboards are manufactured with occassional errors across the board regardless of manufacturer. It happens. Sometimes these errors can be corrected with a bios revision, sometimes they need pulled. All manufacturers have their lemons. Buying something new doesn't guarantee perfection either. If you are worried about it, buy the square-trade warranty. When the computer arrives you can use SiSoftware Sandra of some other burn-in software to stress test it. If there is a defect sometimes the burn in software will help root it out faster, and then you can return it withing the 30 day window.

bgoodgion

cjsutherland wrote:Replace the motherboard with a new FM2 socket motherboard from Newegg or TigerDirect. You don't have to spend over $60 or so if you don't want too.

That isn't hard. The tougher part is going to be getting Windows validated on the new setup.

Agreed. If the motherboard that failed was actually a Pegatron, that manufacturer has a very poor reputation. So bad that Asus ended their relationship with them last year. This HP, as well as many of their other current models, uses an MSI motherboard which have a much better reliability record. As has been mentioned, all these are 'off-the-shelf' type components that are sometimes 'tweaked' for the specific buyer (HP, Asus, etc.) because of the mass quantities purchased, and should be fairly easy to replace with an equivalent or even an upgrade. I've done this many times with friend's computers; it doesn't require high-level tech skills.

Goosedude

As tempting as HP Refurbs are on WOOT I have sworn never to purchase another HP product after their complete failure to support their consumers after the humongous motherboard heat issues with the HP T1000 series and other laptops at that time.

HP refused to admit that there was an inherent design flaw with the NVIDIA GPU that caused the motherboard to warp and despite the massive # of failures of the laptops immediately after the warranty expired they refused to accept responsibility or even offer some kind of remuneration to loyal customers.

After that....HP was dead to me. You can keep their crappy products....I've moved onto other brands and have never looked back.

JTMc wrote:I've been buying HP refurbs for years. Put in a new PSU and a video card and you've got a machine that runs very well for 3-4 years.

caderoux

I got one of these a few weeks ago. Running Ubuntu (or any Linux, probably) on these is not simple. The chipset for the onboard NIC AND the WiFi chipset are not supported yet - just too new - they need the alx which hasn't been accepted. Because you cannot connect with either out of the box, you'll need to use a supported USB NIC or NIC card to update the system. In my case, I really just wanted to run vmware ESXi right on the bare metal, so I went ahead and got a supported Intel NIC instead.

Another thing to note is that mine came with a single 8GB stick and 3 additional empty slots, so to get to 32GB you won't have to throw out any RAM. Also this RAM is supposed to perform better in pairs, so the single stick may not perform as well as it could.

gak0090

bgoodgion wrote:Agreed. If the motherboard that failed was actually a Pegatron, that manufacturer has a very poor reputation. So bad that Asus ended their relationship with them last year. This HP, as well as many of their other current models, uses an MSI motherboard which have a much better reliability record. As has been mentioned, all these are 'off-the-shelf' type components that are sometimes 'tweaked' for the specific buyer (HP, Asus, etc.) because of the mass quantities purchased, and should be fairly easy to replace with an equivalent or even an upgrade. I've done this many times with friend's computers; it doesn't require high-level tech skills.

Pegatron is not a bad company (at least no worst than any others). Asrock that is known to make pretty decent motherboards is owned by Pegatron. I have motherboards from every manufacturer fail at one time or another including: Asus, Biostar, ECS, Foxconn, Gigabyte...
No one manufacturer is perfect- they all make their lemons. If you replace the MB though there is a pretty good chance that you will need to reinstall the OS unless you have the same exact MB. Sometimes the same chipset MB replacement might work, but not always. This makes it so that you need to buy another OS unless you use a pirated one- or go linux.

gak0090

caderoux wrote:I got one of these a few weeks ago. Running Ubuntu (or any Linux, probably) on these is not simple. The chipset for the onboard NIC AND the WiFi chipset are not supported yet - just too new - they need the alx which hasn't been accepted. Because you cannot connect with either out of the box, you'll need to use a supported USB NIC or NIC card to update the system. In my case, I really just wanted to run vmware ESXi right on the bare metal, so I went ahead and got a supported Intel NIC instead.

Another thing to note is that mine came with a single 8GB stick and 3 additional empty slots, so to get to 32GB you won't have to throw out any RAM. Also this RAM is supposed to perform better in pairs, so the single stick may not perform as well as it could.

"vSphere 5.0 supports booting ESXi hosts from the Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI). With UEFI you can boot systems from hard drives, CD-ROM drives, or USB media. Network booting or provisioning with VMware Auto Deploy requires the legacy BIOS firmware and is not available with UEFI."

In any case, the issue with Ubuntu 12.10 and 13.04 was/is simply NIC drivers. ESXi also did not recognize the NIC.

sharpjm

TCayer wrote:When I see bargain systems for sale, I use THIS site to check out the CPU performance:

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html

This AMD is fairly middle of the road, close in benchmarks to the Core I5 3360 @ 2.8 GHz.

Using results from a single synthetic benchmark is a poor way to compare processors. Especially a benchmark that scales with number of cores. Many dual core i5s would be better than this AMD chip in 95% of real world applications. I typically use Tomshardware to compare processors. They give results from a large array of synthetic benchmarks and real world applications ranging from video games to image/video processing to real data crunching. Another one I tend to use is Anandtech - similar to Toms in terms of variety.

gak0090

caderoux wrote:No, it does have UEFI. Ubuntu can use UEFI, as can vmware.

"vSphere 5.0 supports booting ESXi hosts from the Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI). With UEFI you can boot systems from hard drives, CD-ROM drives, or USB media. Network booting or provisioning with VMware Auto Deploy requires the legacy BIOS firmware and is not available with UEFI."

In any case, the issue with Ubuntu 12.10 and 13.04 was/is simply NIC drivers. ESXi also did not recognize the NIC.

gak0090

sharpjm wrote:Using results from a single synthetic benchmark is a poor way to compare processors. Especially a benchmark that scales with number of cores. Many dual core i5s would be better than this AMD chip in 95% of real world applications. I typically use Tomshardware to compare processors. They give results from a large array of synthetic benchmarks and real world applications ranging from video games to image/video processing to real data crunching. Another one I tend to use is Anandtech - similar to Toms in terms of variety.

Although Passmark might not be the end all perfect benchmark, I find it is pretty reliable in real world comparisons. Anything can be made to cheat a benchmark, nvidia and radeon did it back and forth for years. Passmark has 9 different tests within its synthetic benchmark one of them being a single core test. I have built a system with the A10-5800 and it is on the same level as some of the slower I5 desktops as far as CPU, but the video on this APU blows away the HD4000.

cjsutherland

sharpjm wrote:Using results from a single synthetic benchmark is a poor way to compare processors. Especially a benchmark that scales with number of cores. Many dual core i5s would be better than this AMD chip in 95% of real world applications. I typically use Tomshardware to compare processors. They give results from a large array of synthetic benchmarks and real world applications ranging from video games to image/video processing to real data crunching. Another one I tend to use is Anandtech - similar to Toms in terms of variety.

Agreed. Tom's Hardware does it "best" in that regard. Them and Anatech.

cjsutherland

gak0090 wrote:Although Passmark might not be the end all perfect benchmark, I find it is pretty reliable in real world comparisons. Anything can be made to cheat a benchmark, nvidia and radeon did it back and forth for years. Passmark has 9 different tests within its synthetic benchmark one of them being a single core test. I have built a system with the A10-5800 and it is on the same level as some of the slower I5 desktops as far as CPU, but the video on this APU blows away the HD4000.

Reliable? Yes. If I had to pick one "source" of information to use in making a CPU or GPU purchase? Negative. Tom's and Anatech take them into "real world/practical" settings...and usually compared to like priced chips/cards.

Not saying it isn't something you should ALWAYS look at when making an educated decision though.

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