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An interview with Jesús Manzano, April 21, 2004

The vicious circle

Spanish rider Jesús Manzano has been at the center of one of cycling's biggest
ever controversies after he provided detailed allegations of doping to sports
newspaper As last month. In his first interview outside of the Spanish
media, Manzano talks to Hernan Alvarez Macias about his reasons for going
public, death threats and some solutions to the doping problem.

On March 24 of this year, the Spanish cycling world was shocked by the first
installment of a very long, multi-part interview with a previously little known
rider called Jesús Manzano, published in Madrid's sports newspaper As.
A rider for Kelme from 2000 to 2003, Manzano claimed he was forced to take doping
substances by the team. Over five editions of the paper, Manzano provided a
full, detailed account of the alleged doping practices in Kelme in 2003 to the
journalist Juan "Guti" Gutiérrez.

"In the same way they sanction me, they should
sanction the ones who are supplying doping substances."

It was the beginning of yet another chapter in the seemingly everlasting story
of cycling's struggle with the blight of doping. Manzano spent three hours in
the As newsroom speaking about his problems with illegal substances.
He claimed that the doses he received were so strong that he had serious health
problems and at one point he thought he was about to die because of an excess
of drugs.

Manzano's sporting relationship with Kelme ended well before he spoke to the
press, when he was sacked from the team for having a woman in his hotel room
during the 2003 Vuelta a Espana. As well as telling his story to As,
Manzano has since given evidence to authorities investigating doping in sport
in both Spain and Italy. His claims caused ASO, the organizing body of the Tour
de France, to withdraw the possibility of Kelme being granted a wildcard entry
to the Tour, and Kelme director Vicente Belda has spoken out angrily about the
consequences Manzano's claims have had for his team.

Cyclingnews spoke exclusively with Jesús Manzano on April 13, the same
day that the Spaniard went to the Spanish cycling federation (RFEC) to present
evidence for his claims. Manzano presented 24 pieces of evidence, including
prescriptions allegedly signed by Kelme's doctors between 2001 and 2003.

Manzano comes across as a man who is genuinely relieved to be able to talk
about the doping regime he claims he endured. His answers are quick and straightforward;
he doesn't seem to be trying to hide anything.

Cyclingnews: Why did you decide to talk about this problem? Was it because
of the incident when you felt were about to die or there was another reason?

"When a rider tests positive, the team director
and the doctor must be punished."

Jesús Manzano: No, the health of a rider, the health of
a sportsman must be respected. I decided to talk because when one gets to the
point where his health is in jeopardy... it shouldn't be like that [because
of doping]. I had thought about telling all these things during the Tour [de
France]. I had discussed it with my partner [his girlfriend Marina] and well...
The truth is that life is more important than anything in the world, more important
than money, than being famous.

CN: Did you really expect the Spanish federation and the UCI would not
enforce their rules about self-confessed dopers?

JM: I'm not dodging any sanction. But in the same way they
sanction me, they should sanction and should withdraw the medical licenses from
the ones who are supplying doping substances. And they should sanction the directors
who are involved in these things too.

CN: Do you regret speaking out now that you are in danger of being suspended?

JM: Absolutely not, never! Look, my conscience is... it
was a great load off my mind. I'm happy, I'm so very happy. I'm glad this might
help someone some day. Although some people think this is harmful for cycling,
I think this is very good for the future of the sport and for the people who
are coming behind us. People must recognize this fact because I see this is
a country [Spain] full of hypocrites.

CN: Some people say you are just motivated by money and revenge. What
do you say to this?

JM: Neither money nor revenge. I don't want money. I have
to tell you also that I have not been paid by Kelme since December, and they
owe me plenty of money. Not one single Euro has entered my bank account up to
this morning. I have to live, everyone has to live; we work to get paid.

No revenge. But it's a real shame that this exists and it is taboo! Some say
drugs are doing great harm, but the truth is that all medications are a drug.

JM: I'm not currently riding. I'm going to start my rehabilitation
this week. I'm really upset because of this tendonitis that I have had for six
months. It's something very weird.

CN: What has been the reaction among your friends in the peloton after
your revelations?

JM: I just talked with teammates, I mean former teammates.
And they still speak to me.

CN: Kelme teammates?

JM: Not from Kelme. They are in other teams and they didn't
stop talking to me, but I see them becoming colder with me. It's not like in
the past when I had a much closer relationship with them. Now it's a serious
thing, it's like a cold sensation, but I don't care.

CN: Have you received death threats? Who do you think is calling you?

JM: I really don't know. Recently, the other day, I received
a phone call and I don't know who he was. I don't know who he was, but I can
tell you he was not Spanish. His voice doesn't sound Spanish. But if someone
wants to harm you, he just comes from the back and he does it. He shoots you,
he hits you, whatever. He doesn't come to me saying "blab blab blabs".

Do not attack me from the back. If he has balls, he should come from the front;
that's how a man should come. Not like a coward coming from behind. I have not
kept my distance from the media, not at all, I don't hide from the media and
I have talked about everything. Not like some others who don't have enough balls
in this life to talk. There's so much hypocrisy! They are hypocrites, liars
and dishonest people!

JM: I don't have police protection, and I don't think I
need it. If they kill me, they kill me. But they'd better kill me, because if
they leave me alive...

CN: Do you fear for your life every time you go out of your home thinking
someone may try and kill you?

JM: Not at all. I'm not afraid of anyone nor have any ill-will
toward anyone. And I don't think anyone should have ill-will toward me. I have
talked about myself, not anyone else, not a former teammate nor other people
from other teams. I have spoken about the things that happened to me, and the
person who is free from sin shall cast the first stone.

CN: What do you think about the Cofidis's doping problems?

JM: I cannot speak about another team. I think it's a shame;
it's a team that paid very well and it's a serious team. That's all I can say
about this, I can [only] talk about my team. Look, some acquaintances of mine
have been riding with them, teammates of mine and it's a serious team. I don't
think they are involved on these things, but if the boss took the decision...

CN: Do you think what happened with your case could be the beginning
of a real and conclusive solution to doping in cycling?

JM: Since there are no [anti-doping] laws in Spain like
the ones in France and since there are no anti-doping organizations in Spain
like the ones there are in other countries, I don't think my case is the solution.

CN: Do you think these affairs should be judged by national institutions
or is it better that international organizations like the UCI or the WADA itself
look for global solutions and determine some international laws to be applied
all over the world?

JM: There should be a global solution, but I can tell you
something: this is a political issue. I believe if this had happened in Italy
or in France, oh my God! The mess would be huge! And here [in Spain] look, many
days have passed and there were no investigations, nothing. I'm the first. If
they want investigate in my house, they can do that for sure, bah, I don't care.

CN: Is it a solution to reduce the distance of race stages and also
to reduce the number of races a rider competes in per season?

JM: Yes, I think so. This is a problem that must be fixed
in any way, no matter how. Maybe it's cropping the stages. You cannot put five
stages of 200 kilometres in the Tour with the peloton riding at an average of
40km or more per hour. I think a rider would give the same spectacle with 120,
130 kilometres and that could fix things so much.

Besides, when a rider tests positive, the team director and the doctor must
be punished! Because they are able to feel free to say "the rider medicates
himself", like they said about me. I didn't test positive and I didn't medicate
myself... How can I medicate myself if the products are extremely expensive
and one can not simply buy them in drugstores? And besides, the substances have
to be given by a doctor, right? Someone who knows about medicine should be involved,
right?

I actually think all this is a scandal! A scandal because there are no ethics.
There are people who are getting so very rich thanks to the dummies who are
the riders. And this is a matter of human exploitation, exploitation, exploitation.
For ten cyclists who earn 100 kilos [100,000,000 former Spanish pesetas, 600,000
euros] - and I don't think there are many of these riders - there are doctors
with such great houses, such great cars... And there it is the rider with a
two-peseta car, except for the cyclists who have good cars. This is really a
shame! This must end in a firm determination or an arrangement.

CN: If it is true there are so many dopers in the professional peloton,
it would be tough to compete 'clean' of any substance, right?

JM: I don't know who dopes. I talked about me, if the rest
don't say anything that must be because they are clean. It will be tough, really
tough to compete in that way. But if you cannot ride, you stay where you are,
and if you cannot ride anymore, you get out of cycling and that's it. I rode
in amateur competitions and I didn't dope myself being an amateur. The point
is that amateur competitions have nothing to do with professional competitions.

I tell you that in my first year as a professional they didn't give me many
things. They gave very few things, hardly anything. So, the first year I took
very few things [2000], the second one a bit more [2001], the third one [2002]
some more, and the fourth one [2003] uff, horrible things! Many things! In the
fourth year I had products for me and many more too. The doctor sent me many
medications. In fact, today I brought many products in my evidence that were
genuinely horrible things.

CN: When a rider dopes, who do you think is mainly responsible for this
act, the team director, the team doctor or the rider himself?

JM: I think the least responsible is the rider and I'll
tell you why. Because if you don't get in the vicious circle, in the next year
you are fired. So, you've got to get in that circle, you have no choice, if
not you become jobless. Or you are considered a rebel. I had an argument with
my former team in Valencia and they ask me to shut up, not to tell anything.
I don't have a reason to shut my mouth! What really happens here is a shame.

If this had happened in Italy or in France, we would all have been arrested.
I would have been freed because I would have turned evidence. I have told my
truth and I have presented all my proof. I received a sanction from the UCI?
All right, I received a sanction. But, sanction the UCI too. Many doping controls
are being taken and everyone is... I took controls and I didn't get positive.

CN: Last question. How do you think the next stage of your career will
go in your new Amore e Vita team?

JM: First of all, I have to take care of myself. My health
comes first because of the problems with my knee. I'm about to start a rehabilitation
process and then I will see. I really don't know how things will go. I'm not
sure that I [only] have a tendonitis because I have been dealing with this problem
for six months.