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The Jews, the true authority and interpreters of Eden, saw mankind’s gain of knowledge as an elevation in their struggle to understand God. Israel [as understood by Hebrews, = he strives with God]. Strive can be read as to mean to work either with or against. Jews equated God more with a source of knowledge than a source of command that must be obeyed. This is shown by archetypal Moses ignoring God’s law of divorce.

Being a Gnostic Christian, my view goes to following the Jewish view for two basic reasons. They have more authority over the O. T. than Christians and secondly, they give our creation, beginning and God a happy ending for our passage through Eden. True evil had yet to manifest itself to that point in time.

Christians on the other hand, with their view of Eden as man’s fall, cannot see a perfect heaven without evil. God fails on this issue and admits it by casting Satan out.

Christians cannot see a perfect Eden on earth without evil. God fails on this issue and admits it by casting Adam and Eve out.

In Noah’s day, God repented from his sins. He missed the mark and admits it by destroying most of mankind and animal kind with an immoral genocide. God fails on this issue as well.

Did the Jews win in their striving against God to a point where they could judge him?
I think so thanks to Moses and the divorce laws.

We cannot today know why Christianity reversed some of the Jewish thinking when embracing the O. T. and it’s God and going from man’s elevation to man’s fall.

Should Christians consider following that good Jewish example and do as other cultures have done as shown by Joseph Campbell and seek a messiah the way most Jews do?

If not, then Christians will have to learn to live in a world where their God can be accurately described like this.

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Dawkins and most Jews call the bible fiction. Jews can thus get around this accurate description of God by just admitting the truth. It is all myth and metaphor. Literalist and fundamental Christians cannot and I think that over time this rather ugly God will kill Christianity.

At one time the Christian God of the gaps may have had a role to play for us but man has moved on. Christians should perhaps do the same and seek their true God.

It is hard to argue against the idea that 'it is all myth and metaphor', but you make statements like 'The Jews, the true authority and interpreters of Eden' and 'In Noah’s day'.

I presume that you mean to be cryptic with such statements and these too are metaphors.

Not at all.

They are metaphors for archetypal characters and I am just saying that since they are Jewish constructs, Jews would understand their fiction better than the Christians who usurped them and reversed their meaning for the bible.

Your God is your ultimate barrier to finding the Godhead. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Eoxt1hRm9c&feature=fvsthttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGx4IlppSgU The Jews, the true authority and interpreters of Eden, saw mankind’s gain of knowledge as an elevation in their struggle to understand God. Israel [as understood by Hebrews, = he strives with God]. Strive can be read as to mean to work either with or against. Jews equated God more with a source of knowledge than a source of command that must be obeyed. This is shown by archetypal Moses ignoring God’s law of divorce. Being a Gnostic Christian, my view goes to following the Jewish view for two basic reasons. They have more authority over the O. T. than Christians and secondly, they give our creation, beginning and God a happy ending for our passage through Eden. True evil had yet to manifest itself to that point in time. Christians on the other hand, with their view of Eden as man’s fall, cannot see a perfect heaven without evil. God fails on this issue and admits it by casting Satan out. Christians cannot see a perfect Eden on earth without evil. God fails on this issue and admits it by casting Adam and Eve out. In Noah’s day, God repented from his sins. He missed the mark and admits it by destroying most of mankind and animal kind with an immoral genocide. God fails on this issue as well. Did the Jews win in their striving against God to a point where they could judge him? I think so thanks to Moses and the divorce laws. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irFN2gdI We cannot today know why Christianity reversed some of the Jewish thinking when embracing the O. T. and it’s God and going from man’s elevation to man’s fall. Should Christians consider following that good Jewish example and do as other cultures have done as shown by Joseph Campbell and seek a messiah the way most Jews do? If not, then Christians will have to learn to live in a world where their God can be accurately described like this. “The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” ― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion Dawkins and most Jews call the bible fiction. Jews can thus get around this accurate description of God by just admitting the truth. It is all myth and metaphor. Literalist and fundamental Christians cannot and I think that over time this rather ugly God will kill Christianity. At one time the Christian God of the gaps may have had a role to play for us but man has moved on. Christians should perhaps do the same and seek their true God. Regards DL

Why are you a Gnostic Christian?

I've looked a bit into Gnosticism.. I think it may not be any different than all the other sects/philosophies at the time of Jesus? It has no evidence to back it up other than the Gnostic texts..

I've looked a bit into Gnosticism.. I think it may not be any different than all the other sects/philosophies at the time of Jesus? It has no evidence to back it up other than the Gnostic texts..

What do you believe happens after we die?

We join the cosmic consciousness. The Godhead for short.

I chose Gnosticism as it suits my temperamant and I call myself a Gnostic Christian because I used the bible to help push my apotheosis.

The Godhead I know in a nutshell. I was a skeptic till the age of 39. I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself a Gnostic Christian naturalist. Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake. “Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.” This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of O T God where literal Christians will see God’s killing as good. Christians are sheeple where Gnostic Christians are goats. This perhaps why we see the use of a Jesus scapegoat as immoral, while theists like to make Jesus their beast of burden. An immoral position. During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit. I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis. This is also why I prefer to stick to issues of morality because no one has yet been able to prove that God is real and I have no more proof than they for the cosmic consciousness. The cosmic consciousness is not a miracle working God. He does not interfere with us save when one of us finds it. Not a common thing from what I can see. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step. I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have tribal mentalities and poor morals. I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help. I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to discard whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship it but instead, raise my bar and seek further. My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being. Regards DL