Giles cited for battery

Incident comes days after KU player reinstated to basketball team

Kansas University basketball forward C.J. Giles was cited by police for battering a female KU student Monday night, days after he was reinstated to the team following a suspension for personal problems.

According a KU police report, the 20-year-old woman told police she was in Giles' apartment in Jayhawker Towers Monday night when he got a phone call from another woman, and told her to leave. She asked why, according to a report, and he told her his girlfriend was on her way to his room.

She told officers she didn't know Giles had a girlfriend, and that when she asked him about it, he got angry, grabbed her by the ankles and dragged her off his bed onto the floor. She told officers he continued to drag her into the hallway as she tried to get away, and that he then "struck her in the left side of her head by her ear" with his closed fist. She left the apartment and reported the incident to police at 11:30 p.m.

Giles admitted to police that he dragged the woman across the floor, the report says, but denied hitting her in the head. He was not taken into custody but was given a notice to appear in municipal court for battery.

KU spokesman Jim Marchiony confirmed the university is aware of the situation, and is gathering information. Marchiony had no other comment.

Battery does not require the prosection to prove "intent to harm." Crimes which require the prosection to prove intent are known as "specific intent" crimes. Most crimes do not require proof of intent, and are therefore known as "general intent" crimes. Battery is a general intent crime, which means that all the state has to prove is that his acts were of his own wilfull volition, and not the involuntary result of extraneous circumstances.

As a former prosecutor, I can assure you that battery does not require an intent to harm, or that harm resulted. All that needs to be proven is that a harmful or offensive touching ocurred and that the accused wilfully intended to cause the contact. Also, the legal issue surrounding the question of C.J.'s right to remove her from his apartment is known as the "defense of property." The law simply allows one to lawfully use reasonable force to defend one's property, which, by definition, includes one's abode. What constitutes reasonable force depends on the surrounding circumstances, which are always unique. Clearly, C.J. would not have been lawfully entitled to threaten her with a gun or shoot her. Whether he was legally entitled to drag her from his room is questionable, and best left to the trier of fact. It all comes down to whether it was "reasonable." Was she causing a disturbance? Was she threatening physical harm or harm to personal property? if she refused to leave, C.J. always had the option to call the police to remove her. Obviously, none of us know the entire facts. Thats why we have the presumptioin of innocence and the right to trial.

"C.J. was well aware of the consequences of another lapse in judgment. We normally would let the judicial process play its course before dismissing someone, but C.J. has exhibited a pattern of behavior and has left us no choice.

"We have standards that we hold all of our student-athletes to, and C.J. did not meet those standards."

As the saying goes, "history tends to repeat itself." From time to time the Jayhawk community has been confronted with "C.J.-like" issues, and with the exception of John Randle, we've always resolved the problem expeditiously, and with dignity and decisiveness. Nothing different with C.J.

Now, its time to put this baby to bed and talk about what's really important---the wonderfully exciting season that lays ahead. Rock Chalk, Jayhawk, KU!!!

If he did what she said he did, then Coach Self should do what is best for the team and dismiss him. However, since we only have one side of the story, I don't want to jump to conclusions. If it happened in the Towers, then I am sure there are witnesses.
But I in no way condone the behavior he is accused of.

Leprechaunking13, perhaps I didn't make this point clear, but the issue of whether C.J. is guilty of battery is separate from the issue of whether or not he should be terminated from the team. He admits to having dragged the woman by her ankles. Regardless of whether or not such conduct is a criminal offense, it is contrary to what the Kansas Community expects of its athletes--especially one already on probation for errors of judgment--and therefore sufficient in and of itself for permanent removal from the program. And to further comment, any discussion of how C.J.'s removal might affect our ability to win basketball games is contrary to the Jayhawk philsophy. Jayhawks are above the primitive mentality of "win at all costs." Thats what the Bob Huggins are for.

mom_of_three - "If it happened in the Towers, then I am sure there are witnesses."

That's absolutely correct. I lived in the Towers for a while and that place transmits sound like crazy. I could hear what the people at the other end of the tower were watching on their TV half the time! Everything just echos through those brick hallways.

bottom line (for me); he's outta here. i hope. no need at all for disgraceful behavior such as he's displayed. there's plenty of hungry kids who'd be thrilled to play for the 'Hawks! team integrity is at stake, here.

Hey CJ, ....Ever heard of Mike Masucci???
He was a player on the 1988 National Championship team who got stupid and got booted during the NCAA's, and missed out on getting a ring. You just joined the same club, buddy! Good Luck being the jack-slapped b_tch in jail!

Bad decision all the way around. I don't see how he can not dismiss him now. For no other reason than what is already known by the police and admitted by him.

Furthermore this is not a democracy. Self runs the program. He is a dictator. All this presumption of innocence is poppy cock. These athletes are held to a HIGHER standard than the rest of the student population. They know that coming in.

We are hoping our son will have the opportunity to receive a scholarship to a Division 1 university. If he does we would skin him alive if he would ever jeopardize it.For Giles to be so fortunate and have such disregard for the opportunity he has been given, just blows me away.

Leprechaunking13 - If he was cited, he WAS charged! If you are given a speeding citation, you are charged with speeding. Perhaps you should know what you're talking about before you try to make the rest of us sound like idiots. Regardless, what he did was entirely inappropriate and he should be removed from the team. It was his fault entirely that he had another girl in his room that should not have been there (at least in his girlfriend's eyes) regardless of whether they were doing anything or not. She should not have to suffer humiliation and physical violence because of his idiocy.

Shardwurm - I can't believe no one picked up on this before. He absolutely does not represent KU appropriately! GO BACK TO MIZZOU!!!

Hurlehey_boy, In a situation like that, where it is classified misdemeanor battery and was not committed in the presence of the police, the police did it right. Before you dis the police, know the facts. You and I would have been treated the same way.

at least let him stay til' after the missouri game. with one person getting back at M. U. for all of their dirty plays, and no loss to the team. maybe he could take his pants down at center court in columbia and take a shhhhhhhhhhh,,,,, the police are at the door

"All that needs to be proven is that a harmful or offensive touching ocurred and that the accused wilfully intended to cause the contact."

He was dragging her off his bed. I'm under the impression that all the "offensive touching" and "wilfull contact" had already "ocurred" prior to him kicking her out.

How nice it must be to be made a public spectacle. My motto: try not to do ANYTHING that you wouldn't want re-counted on the evening news. She'll have to leave the state to lose her "floozy" reputation. Too bad.

Girls: find a REAL man. Dating jocks is just a short-cut that ALWAYS ends badly. They just want you because you have direct access and control over certain parts of the female anatomy that they are interested in. Once they are done with you, they will say something like "now serving number 35", and will show you the door.

A crime consisting of physical contact that is intended to harm someone. Unintentional harmful contact is not battery, no mater how careless the behavior or how severe the injury. A fist fight is a common battery; being hit by a wild pitch in a baseball game is not.

That's what I got from a legal definition site. Are you saying that his citation is based on the belief that by attempting to physically remove the girl from his room, he was committing battery, regardless of whether the girl was injured or not?

"Word of advice:
Practice saying, "Would you like fries with that?" or "Welcome to Wal-Mart." You gots a kid ta feed Jack."

While your criticism is well taken, your methods are questionable. Are you mocking the way certain African Americans talk by writing "You gots a kid ta feed Jack." If you are, it is entirely inapproriate.

Jocks being jocks. Anyone else would have went to jail. I thought if any assault were indicated they are supposed to arrest someone.I guess maybe the difference is that it is not considered domestic abuse because they are not in some sort of relationship. Then again maybe the girl was mad he had a girlfriend. It's hard to say. Were there any pictures taken of the victim I wonder? Young ones never learn until it's too late. When he is 40 and works at Wal-Mart then maybe he will look back and wish he had done things differently.

Innocent until proven guilty I believe is the term we use in this country, everyone would have been treated the same, unless he had admitted to actually HITTING her! Dragging her out of his room is not hitting her. Maybe he did ask her to leave and she refused to leave is he just supposed to let her stay in his apartment? Self already said that he and the team could do more to help C.J. while he is ON THE TEAM, you people are morons for first of all not knowing your rights when it comes to the police and second of all not realizing that he hasn't been CHARGED WITH ANYTHING so they won't remove him from the team, why don't you guys study all the facts and process EVERYTHING first then speak.

Gee Sychophant it so simple isn't it when you look at the whole picture? Thanks for supporting my point, kinda, not all the facts are in so there is no point in everyone stating that he is gone and off the team, they wouldn't just kick him off the team and then have him go to trial be proved innocent. I hate when people post on here KU basketball and athletics in general everyone's a genius and smarter than the coaches and the administration, that's exactly why all you smartypants are being paid by the KU for your expertise right?

mom_of_three, if you only consider what he admitted to having done he should still be dismissed from the team and suspended from the university. Not to mention the legal consequences that should occur.

Did all y'all notice that he was not arrested, just given a notice to appear . . . does that not reek of favoritism to anyone else?

CJ is going to grow up to be some washed up never-was who blames the world for all of his problems. God have mercy on anyone that has to sit next to him and listen to why he never got a fair shake. What a waste of tax dollars. If he drops out of college (which judging by his track record he will) he will be even more tragic than JR Giddens. At least Giddens is still in college and playing ball. JR was a moron, but he didn't have a little boy that he should have been thinking about like CJ does.

OK people, lets get this straight and not refer to some internet site which supposedly has correct legal definitions. In Kansas, and in the Uniform Municipal Code, the crime of battery is:
(a) Intentionally or recklessly causing bodily harm to another person; or
(b) intentionally causing physical contact with another person when done in a rude, insulting or angry manner.
See K.S.A. 21-3412

Time to get rid of him before he totally distroys the teams abbility to be proud and represent KU in the way it should be represented. We don't need his trouble for what he might bring to the team.See ya.

I didn't say his actions were acceptable, I simply stated that the story had a lot of variables in it, and assuming the incident played out as reported was premature to say the least. I was making a point about jumping to conclusions, and thank you for demonstrating it again with your comment to me.

I don't know, BorderRat. I'm sure the KU police called the Athletic Dept. before talking to Giles. I personally think he should be shot for this and his dead-beat dad status, but lucky for him, I don't make the rules.

Dragging her out to remove her from his room is not hitting her, I'll garuntee that she bumped her head while being taken out of the room against her will. Gee that's pretty dumb huh BOB. Put yourself in the position of kicking a person out of your home, they don't leave and you can obviously force them out without actually hitting them do you do it? OF COURSE YOU DO! you are an IDIOT!

Don't crack on Self for giving him a second chance. What Self did was send the message that everyone screws up, and deserves another shot for a mistake.

Crack on CJ for not taking advantage of this chance. Not many people are given chances like this, and CJ is an idiot for not taking full advantage of this, and forgetting he is under a microscope. DId he think this would go unnoticed?

Battery is defined as "a harmful or offensive touching." Either act--dragging by ankles or hitting--is arguably a battery. However, C.J. will probably only be charged with one count, because both acts occured in one continuous transaction. For example, when somebody punches another in the face several times in succession without legal justification, the several punches are considered one act and therefore only one count of battery is permissible.

OldEnuf, you owe Ghost an apology. Unlike Leprechaunking13's foolish suggestion that C.J.'s status should await disposition of the criminal case, Ghost never suggested or inferred that the issue of C.J.'s status should be contingent on the results of the criminal case. Instead, he was asking legitimate questions about the crimninal process, which were certainly legitimate. You should be careful about reading something into Ghost's comments which simply were not there.

"You and I would be treated the same," are you kidding, BorderRat? Total BS!!! I know a guy that got a domestic charge for picking his girl up by the shoulders - around the arms - and carrying out the door of his place. Dragging a gal off your bed and out of your place by the ankles sounds more violent and degrading. Jocks are never treated the same as your regular Joe. Get real!

did someone room with giddens too long or what....if it's not one thing it's another.....battery, back child support, failing grades, he should just drop out of school and start coaching pee-wee basketball, that's about all he is going to be good at.

Obviously, Bill Self has no choice but to dismiss him from the team, which is clearly indicated by the recent series of events. Its a shame this kid didn't take his suspension to heart. He has no one to blame but himself. See ya, C.J.. It was fun having you until you screwed up. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Grow up, and perhaps you can make somthing of your life.

The police have simply determined that there is probable cause to belive a crime has been committed. "Probable cause" is legal jargon for "a reasonable belief." The "official record" is not determined until trial, which is the fucntion of the trier of fact. Until then, C.J. is presumed innocent.

The legal definition I found online states that battery has to be intentional physical contact to cause harm. Unintentional contact or injury, regardless of degree of severity, is not battery. The article says that CJ admitted to dragging her off the bed, but that he did not hit her with a closed fist as she stated. The citation suggests that police found some sort of physical evidence supporting the intentional blow to the head. This may be an unpopular position, but I'm going to try and put myself in CJ's shoes here. The girl refuses to leave the apartment and he's stressed because another girl is on the way up, so he makes the stupid decision to use his obvious physical skills and force her to leave. Given the layout of the Towers apartments, that means moving her out of a bedroom, down a short hall, and out the front door. I'll make the assumption that the girl resisted being removed from the bed and the apartment. What is her reaction? Does she grab onto the bed, and CJ has to pry her off with the available handhold of her ankles? Does she fall off the bed and injure herself hitting the floor, or a wall?

A lot of things could have happened in that room, and ultimately, it sounds like the police determined that a crime is possible, or even likely, with the crime being CJ using physical force to cause harm to the girl. At this point, I want to clearly say that I don't want CJ on the team anymore, he's a distraction that can't make good decisions. Regardless of his status with the team, I think there are enough variables in the reported information and the general situation to say that this report is far from proving that CJ really tried to harm the girl. I find it interesting that very few people are asking these kinds of questions and the vast majority is assuming the worst.

The fact that no one has jumped on Bill Self for reinstating C.J. is worthy of comment. I think Coach Self should not be admonished for giving C.J. a second chance. After all, America--the land of opportunity--is famous for second chances. ......Third Changes, now thats another story. Coach Self is certainly not a fool, and I believe C.J.'s future relationship--or lack thereof--with the University of Kansas has already been determined, all thanks to C.J.'s intemperate and moronic behavior. Regardless or whether he is convicted, C.J. admitted to dragging her from the bedroom by the ankles, and such behavior is certaining not in the Jayhawk tradition, and should not be tolerated, especially by someone already on "probation."

I kind of regret my post now. I mean, a lot of guys lose their composure when under pressure, and it's clear that he's really been under pressure. I AM NOT EXCUSING HIS BEHAVIOR, but I'm guessing that C.J. just isn't "ready" for the stuff that's been thrown at him. Immature, undisciplined and hot-tempered. Sounds like me at his age.

It still isn't proven that he committed battery, there is no reason to boot him from the team that quickly that's just dumb. OldEnuf why don't you come and show me how to be a big man, you're telling me that you would sit there with the person you asked to leave and wait for the cops to come and remove the person from your home?

Well, if he really cared so much about this girlfriend as to throw away a promising athletic career by assaulting someone, why was he entertaining other girls on the side, in his private room no less. This man sounds like someone who could benefit from some lessons in decision-making... how to make good choices in life. Good grief.

Princess, I did not jump to conclusions. Read carefully:
"Are you..........? .... If you are.........."
I did not ascribe your motive. Only you know that. I simply suggested that if such is you motive, it is unacceptable. Now, go play on your mat.

Good think KU is doing things like getting a new font, suing small liberal arts colleges that used something similar, increasing admissions requirements, putting up more buildings instead of maintaining those pesky old ones, and riding on the fame of its athletics program. Because you know, these are key to improving the image of KU.