Giants call up Pill, Rosario … Vogelsong, Casilla to the DL

A day after their first long-term injury of the season, the Giants made a couple of moves to get through the days ahead.

Right-handers Ryan Vogelsong and Santiago Casilla were placed on the disabled list and right-hander Sandy Rosario and first baseman Brett Pill were recalled from Triple-A Fresno. Vogelsong is scheduled to undergo surgery Wednesday after fracturing a finger on his throwing hand. Casilla has made just two appearances since May 8 because of a cyst in his knee, and has been trying to get through the injury by wearing a heavy knee brace. Clearly, Casilla hasn’t been right … as one could tell from the fact that he pitched once on the road trip despite being cleared before the Giants arrived in Atlanta Toronto.

With an off day on Thursday, the Giants could shuffle their roster again after they decide how to fill Vogelsong’s rotation spot. Rosario made one appearance when he was briefly recalled last month in Arizona and got a win after getting one out. He has a 3.33 ERA for Triple-A Fresno and has proven to be a durable reliever, something the Giants need this week with the bullpen coming off a taxing road trip. Rosario could slide into a long reliever role if the Giants move Chad Gaudin to the rotation; his last 10 appearances include five that lasted 1 2/3 innings or longer.
Pill made just one start during a brief stint in the big leagues last week but had two doubles. After being sent down to Triple-A Fresno, he went 7 for 11 in three games. In all, Pill is hitting .365 for Fresno with nine homers and 47 RBIs.

Bruce Bochy saw how short his bench was in Colorado, when a move that used Nick Noonan as a decoy and got Joaquin Arias into the game as a pinch-hitter left the Giants with just their backup catcher and a backup outfielder on the bench.

Alex Pavlovic

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If it’s Kickham, he last started on Saturday, so I’d prefer to get him up here for a start on Friday at home against the Rockies. That will give the rest of the rotation two extra days rest on Thursday and Friday. Kickham will get to ease into the majors with two starts at home on Friday and Wednesday against the A’s, and then his next turn comes up in the 3 off days in 8 days stretch in early June, so the Giants could do some skipping in the rotation then if needed.

pacman68

Angry Dan… I want to see Kickham too. But I think they are going with Gaudin.

Bud

Hopefully Belt’s 4 hits yesterday will force Bochy to use Pill as a pinch hitter for someone else.

mlbfan36

Bring up Kickham, the dude was drafted in 2010 and is already in triple A so they think highly of him. Leave Chad in bullpen

Thinking outside the box, we could have Kickham and Gaudin split the 5th starter role. One faces lefty-heavy lineups and the other faces righty-heavy lineups. I’d rather see Kickham get the starts though for now and keep Gaudin as the long man.

Jason T.

Pill is like Jason Voorhees to us Belt supporters/apologists. He never goes away. Look, I don’t dislike Pill. If he were used properly, he’d be a pinch-hitter off of the bench that has a little bit of pop. That would be fine, but Bochy has shown in the past that he can’t resist the urge to start Pill against lefties, taking ABs away from BB. If Pill were on the team last night, do any of us think that Bochy would’ve started Belt against Duke? Posey’s occasional starts at 1B give Belt plenty of days off. If Belt stays hot, he’ll start, we know that, but that’s not what worries me. It’s when he goes through his next funk. Is that when Pill comes in for a handful of starts again, delaying BB’s development further?

Bob S

Kickham tops out in the high 80s, he is a control pitcher and if he has the big league jitters, missing spots, he will be pounded around the yard.

With Zeets record in road games and a June/July schedule that has 75% of the games on the road, they may need a couple of spot starters from the farm system.

larry

Giants finally put together a few Conga lines last night. And for once, for once, for once they BUNTED to score a run! Just a reminder that the Giants lost at least two games in 2011 when opposition used safety/suicide squeeze bunts. Regarding pitching, let’s see what this Kickham can do. Bring him up! Seems the Giants conceded a game Sunday by keeping their best hitters on the bench. Why not put a rookie out on the mound; Giants will either win or lose, so there’s not much to lose overall. If he stinks, Sabean can start looking at other teams. And please, let’s keep Pill on the roster, or use him as trade bait for a pitcher.

pacman68

I think Kickham should get a start and keep Gaudin as long reliever. Give him a taste of the big leagues. Pill adds some power off the bench if Bochy uses him that way. I doubt he will but we shall see.

But the moves today were a little perplexing to me.

stickman

Looks obvious. With Brett the Threat making for a far more potent bench and Rosario capable of being the longman; the team is re-set. For now.
Gaudin will be the fill-in starter for a game or two. Evaluation time. Meanwhile, Kickham and Heston will be very closely monitored to determine whether their recent successes in the PCL are transferable to The Show.

Jason T.: I share your concerns about Bochy being led into temptation to start Pill vs Lefthanders. I’d have no big problem with one start in maybe every ten games or so, with Belt switching to left and Blanco covering center on most of those occasions.

Alex cites something i had noticed in that Colorado game with Bochy’s near inexplicable Noonan-Arias switch. On that occasion there was NO reliable threat on the bench. Hoping Sabean had a brief chat with Bochy as to WHY Pill got the call. He is to be the Dusty Rhodes of the 2013 Giants ~ the PH to call off the bench on occasions where a hit, hopefully an XBH, can make the difference in the game. Why waste him in a starting role replacing a generally superior bat when he has the potential of being an elite pinch hitter.

Buck

With every starter struggling at some point this season why isn’t it time to bring in a real starter (I hate to say Cliff Lee and the money but….) considering the Giants have spots in the rotation up in the air next season. Can’t afford to go the temporary route when we clearly have no starting pitching depth in the system. Just pretend Lincecum is a Cy Young winner this year and use the contract he would have gotten it to pay Lee.

stickman

Lefty: Vis your statements on the previous thread regarding these moves heralding the trade of Belt for a pitcher. No. No. A thousand times no. Hoping this was speculation on your part and not true feminine intuition. With last night’s game as a telling indicator, BB9 is in takeoff mode. I think it was Clutch who noted last season that Belt would solidify this season as the regular 1B with nice stats by year’s end AND opined that he would become a household name by next season.

Okay, maybe: Even swap for Kershaw.

Lefty

There doesn’t seem to be much of a plan. They send down Machi and call up Peguero. Then they send down Peguero and call up Pill–right before starting a road trip to hitters’ parks. Then halfway through that trip they decide they need another arm and send Pill back down after four days. Three days later they LOSE a starter AND one of their best relievers and their response is…they don’t need pitchers anymore and DO need Pill?

Look, either they didn’t need Pill in the first place and shouldn’t have called him up or they did need him and shouldn’t have sent him down. This “short bench” in Colorado explanation is flimsy. The only reason Noonan and Arias got burned on the same AB is that Bochy CHOSE to use them that way. He could have let Noonan hit against the lefty and saved Arias for later.

I thought they needed an extra arm before the road trip, I thought they did the right thing bringing Machi back up, and it makes zero sense to me that three days later they suddenly don’t need pitchers anymore.

Maybe they will make another move or two in a couple days that will explain all this, but right now it just seems panicky. And not Joe, either.

Lefty

Stickman: If they trade Belt to get a mediocre rental pitcher from the Marlins (Nolasco), I’m throwing your TV into Pacman’s pool.

Angry Dan

Lefty, it seems to me that the Giants are now carrying 4 starters, so Rosario is the “extra” 8th man in the bullpen for now and they can bring back the 5th bench player in Pill. They’ll get a day off on Thursday and then they’ll make a corresponding move this weekend to bring up a starter in exchange for Rosario.

Gray Whale

I want to hear more from Lefty on her “I smell a trade” comment….

Also, this didn’t really get discussed: if Giants get another SP, and then everyone else turns it around, is that the end of Vogey the Giant? Would you put him in the pen from his return til end of year and then start him in a freed-up spot next year?

Gray Whale

Well look at that- cross post

Giant PITA

I think AngryDan @ 11:20 called it regarding the immediate path forward.

Matthew

Lefty, you have some serious Foothills Ryan mojo working today!

I so hope you are WAY off base on the Belt trade winds… That kid has a nice career arc ahead of him and is one of the homegrown core. Please, no.

Matthew

My guy, Kaepernick, has a 90+ fastball, and was ace material … Enough to get drafted by the Cubs. Plus, he can rake at the plate. He’s chilling right now, attending basketball games and such. I say a 10 day contract (is that just basketball? He can play that, too…nice swing man) give him 2 starts, then take it from there.

Anti-Lasorda

The only way you tracde Belt is for Cliff Lee…..

Keep’n It Real

@Matthew

I like the idea, but only for certain situations. For example, when Melky come up against the Giants at AT&T…fastball in and “ouch!”. Kaep stands on the mound, stares at the batter, and says “bring it”.

I can think of a few other hitters too.

E-B

if they trade Belt for a pitcher…who plays 1B?

are Gary B, Hector S, viable trade chips?

wine baroness

How about Jake Peavy from the White Sox…??

He’s played for Bochy before…but I think he’s had alot of injury issues in the past so maybe you don’t have to give up too much…maybe Pill and 2nd rate pitcher??

We have traded with the white sox before…gillespie.

Kickham is not here for a reason..probably not ready…or he’d be here…

And no way no how trade Belt…for anybody…especially some old pitcher like cliff lee that is due 25 gazillion dollars……No a thousand times over…Keep the money to pay Pablo and Pence..

.Keep Belt…!!

Bapah

Bringing up Pill “for punch” is just what the team needs right now, of course. Can’t have Belt going 4/5 with a “giant” blast get in the way of his grooming.

Maybe Belt is the long relief guy.

E-B

what would it take to get bud norris from stros?

E-B

Bapah…LOL!

(but u gotta point there…Belt can actually pitch a little bit; he’d be a great 16th inning guy)

Kickham tops out in the low 90’s & IS NOT a control pitcher. He has potentially nasty stuff if he can control it. Control has been his bugaboo. . .

The Giants don’t have to make a move until right before their next start featuring a #5 starter, May 28th. So they can stay reliever heavy until the 27th & call up Kickham. . .

What is all this stuff about trading Belt? idle speculation? If only the giants had given up Brown for Beltran (I remember the rumblings regarding the Mets interest for Brown). . . Leave him out there every day & he’ll be a 20 + hr & 80 rbi + guy with a gold glove quality glove. Crawford will hit around .275 & provide a gold glove quality mitt as well.

When Panik is ready to advance the Giants will have an all system infield, with Belt & Panik providing high one base percentage. Belt is currently hitting .261 with a .321 on base percentage. He’ll only get better as he lays off the high outside pitch & detects the inside stuff, allowing him the opportunity to “turn” on inside offerings. . .

Bob S., where did you get that scouting report on Kickham?

E-B

Baroness: when I heard they called up Pill, I thought … hmmm… ummm…
trying to present him in a trade? Nah, at his age, prob not much value to other teams, even for mediocre pitching.

stickman

Hold on, Lefty. I’ve NEVER allowed a boobtoob into my home. Too much NWO corporate progaganda and mind-control. Would be nice for watching Giants games, i know, BUT too tempting to let it slide into general mindrot programming.

Maintaining my stance on a Belt trade: MAYBE for Kershaw. Can’t think of another starter out there who projects as high a values as BB9 does right now. Think about it: Had Belt been hitting in just about any other venue in MLB last night, his long drive to the opposite field would have been his second tater of the night and would have been the first five for 5 game in his MLB career. In other words he’s just starting to come into his own right during a period when Posey is regressing for a spell.

It would not surprise me one bit to see Belt transform into a super-star. After all, he has the full set of tools: Decent speed on the basepaths; best defensive 1B in MLB; excellent arm; will hit for average; beginning to exercise his powerstroke once again. How many tools do you count there?

Would not surprise me a bit to see Belt batting third before the season ends. He is a selective hitter with power. Rare combination. Panda assumes his natural position as the extremely scary Enforcer. Buster remains at cleanup. Pence bats sixth as the backup Enforcer.

Reaper

E-B, Gary Brown is doing a great job destroying what/if any trade value he has. Talent evaluators are basically saying he hasn’t improved at all really from his time as an amateur, which does not bode well for future development and making adjustments thereto. Hector doesn’t look like an everyday catcher to me, so that’s my answer right on him.

I am on the bandwagon for *not* trading Belt under any realistic conditions and I wouldn’t take Kruger’s opinion unless it came with a tablespoon full of salt. Dude is a serial overreactor with a mic in his face (Caribbean slop anyone?) and his calls for Belt to be platooned (if I read comments in a previous post correctly) should be lambasted.

Lefty, being a lawyer & a woman how reliable is your female intuition? I the holes in Pill’s swing would be revealed & exploited. His fielding, something the Giants collectively suffer from isn’t up to par with Belt’s (few rival first sackers can match Belt’s adroitness in the field). . .

Nah, if anything Pill is a throw in for a # 4-5 starter, if when they need a #5 guy Kickham reveals he’s not ready for the prime time. . .

stickman

Dang it!!! moderation for “Panda a$$umes”. When is the Merc gonna spend a few bucks to hire a geek to clean up this a$$inine moderation system?

Anti-Lasorda

I’m not suggesting Belt for Lee is the best trade. But if you trade Belt, that is the type of arm you get in return.

Cy Young caliber stuff. It would also mean No Zito and No Timmy for next season. There’s your money for Lee’s contract and still provide $8M-$15M for increase for Pence in 2014 depending on how you amortized the Zito buy-out. Pablo under contract for 2014 already for a marginal increase. 2014 would work $$ wise. Now, 2015, when you have to extend Pablo becomes a huge problem with Lee’s contract on the books but if you have another title or two by then, maybe it’s not a big deal or maybe you can spin Lee off as Crick, Kickham etc fill in.

~YMMV

ClutchUp

Lefty :=/

You’re wearing this one. You started your own Belt rumor. LH firstbaseman that can hit a tad = going nowhere.

I’ll get you Sabes’s # and you can discuss the “has no plan comment together.

Chuckle 8-/

Woj

The anti Pill crowd is in full force today. Pill was brought up .. to trade him. Pill was brought up … to delay Belt’s ‘development’. Pill was brought up … to (fill in the conspiracy theory here).

How about this?? Brett Pill was brought up to help the Giants! He’s back with SF becasue he’s earned in every way a good long run with the Major League Giants. He’s absolutely obliterated PCL pitching. And before you dismiss that – remember how much Gary Brown – he of the vaunted 1st round pick has struggled against the same PCL pitching.

Brett Pill should be the backup LF and backup 1B every 8 games or so. Against pitchers BB9 struggles against (and there are a decent sized list of those), insert Pill. I want Posey catching. He’s great defensively and offensively at Catcher.

Pill in LF or Belt in LF and the other at 1B is a potent lineup. Pill as DH has the same effect against A’s and AL clubs.

And please if you truly want better defense get Blanco in CF to replace a guy with too many errors out there and consider once Scoots cools off, Noonan in for Scutaro in late inning D situations. Scoots made another error yesterday. Remember, Giants won WS with Burrell in LF and won division titles with aging slower Bonds in LF.

GiantDuck

Getting on the Anti and Lefty wave length for a moment: You say no to ANY trade of Belt? What if he fetched Strasburg? OK, I have your attention. Let’s think about this. What if Belt (along with a Peguero-type) could fetch a truly front-line starter? One that is under control for a couple years? With the Lincecum, Zito, Vogie free agency looming, how bad would that be? Pill is no Belt. Agree. But is Pill a possible LaRoche? .250 hitter with 20 HRs. He’s certainly an adequate fielding first baseman. And, he breaks up the lefty-lefty-lefty logjam in the bottom of the order.

Belt and a couple others might also bring a starter and a left fielder with some pop.

OK, that’s my Anti-Lefty moment.

Bapah

Hmmmmmm

Posey for Kershaw
Belt for Kemp
Crawford for Ramirez
Panda for Donny Baseball

There, Anti, done!

al oha

Forget Cliff “Big Game Loser” Lee.

Do I have to fly to SF and spit on his wife, the next time Philly plays the Giants?

Kemp is damaged goods. His should still isn’t 100%, might not ever be.

Posey for Kershaw would be intriguing on another team, ya know, if the club had anyone else that could hit cleanup, but not this one.

Panda for Donnie baseball? In 1985 maybe, Panda was a sperm cell and Mattingly was MVP sporting the best mustache this side of a porn star……

pacman68

I can’t believe I’m reading that some Giant fans want Loux as the 5th starter. Are you guys all high on weed? Did you not watch any game last year? That guy is AWFUL!!! I think I would rather have Dave Dravecky and his one arm over Loux.

EGATZ!!!!

Anti-Lasorda

I would give the Dodgers choice of just about anyone except Posey on the roster for Kershaw…… how many choices depends on the first one. Panda included….

Ryan

Let’s not anoint Belt a first ballot Hall of Famer just yet.

He doing great job over the last 30+ days, but I’d like to see how he swings the stick versus Strasburg and Gonzalez.

Now if rakes them all over the yard, there’s room to get excited. Teeing off on Zach Duke and middle relievers is nice for stat padding, but it won’t put you on the path to Silver Slugger.

Ryan

I’d take Donnie Baseball on my MABL team. If his back will hold up.

pacman68

I’m glad Pill is up here and it gives us some pop coming off the bench. Belt isn’t going anywhere and the Giants are not going to trade him unless it’s for a front line starter.

What pitcher would you guys trade Belt for? I can think of 10 off the top of my head.

Bapah

Maybe Pill will get the starts against Stras and Gio. Belt needs a rest, afterall.

Ryan

Mahalo for your kokua, Al Oha.

Read your Yu and Yoenis post that even included The Wisdom Cow. That was a wallbanger of a post that I enjoyed.

The theme that resonates with my inner fake GM is that it is better to spend money in the offseason than to have to trade high value prospects in the middle of the season.

Although, Marty Lurie would tell you the prospects on the farm is like printing money in the basement.

Bapah

Ok, all this is way too much silliness for me. (if you can believe that) So, see you all around game time. Need to water the tomatoes. Can’t believe I have some giant sets already. I need some bacon plants if y’all know where I can pick up a couple.

Giant PITA

I’m with Woj @ 12:03 pm. The only danger in Pill being on the team is Bochy. Can he resist the platoon. If Bochy can control himself and use Pill as Woj outlines I see no problems having a right handed power bat on the bench and in the LU once in a while.

Please go back and read/reread KIR’s post at NINE O ONE am today, buy or fix your better/other half a nice lunch and TRY guessing what the Giants WILL Do (my favorite Bapah tort) rather than what you WANT them to do or what you think “splits”, VORP, WHIP, or other paper stats advocated moves for them to make.

(Ted Robinson will only call it Pacific Bell Ball Park and will ONLY call O.O = The Oakland Coliseum.

@Stickman: all my BB9 posts in late 2010-threw now have all ended with “will be an MLB Household name in 2014.

Doug Mapson agrees!

ClutchUp

Bang! SuperBowl 50 in Santa Clara

# L

Ryan

Pulled from a couple of chats:
——————————————

Comment From TJ
Who does Miami trade by the deadline and what can they get in return? Tons of guys who will have no role on the 2014 te am
2:25

Tim Dierkes:
They can move Nolasco or Pierre for minor leaguers we’ve never heard of, and Slowey and Dunn for ones we might have heard of depending on how they’re throwing. Dunn might be the best trade chip, Stanton aside.

—

Comment From Rick Hahn
You believe me when I say “no fire sale” for the White Sox?
2:21

Tim Dierkes:
Hahn said it’s possible they become sellers, but it’s too early to make that decision. Perfectly reasonable. The team is 3.5 games out in the wild card, best rotation in the league with John Danks coming back too. If a few guys start to get on base, and they find some kind of reclamation project bat, who knows?

—

Comment From Anon21
By how long has the bodily ascension of Our Savior Bryce Harper and his Choir of Celestial Nationals into the annals of baseball history has been delayed? There’s still time for them to bypass the ’27 Yankees as the Greatest Team in Baseball History, right?

9:35
Jeff Sullivan: It’s worth noting that the projections didn’t absolutely love the Nationals before the season started. They were optimistic, but not as optimistic as some of the rest of us. And we probably aren’t smarter than projections

Jeff Sullivan: Nationals projected to be a half-game worse than the Pirates the rest of the way

9:36
Jeff Sullivan: And their lack of starting pitching depth hasn’t even yet been exposed

====

I pasted these excerpts to highlight that Nolasco could be picked up for just about a pittance in prospects so long as the money is covered, that trading for Jake Peavy can’t happen while the Sox are still in a race, and that Lefty is probably right about the Nationals. Maybe last season was flukey for them.

oil can boyd

Nolasco’ s 2013 record with a horrible team are better than most of the Giants starters. I have gone to 2 Marlin games at AT&T and Nolasco shut down the Gs both times.
If Gaudin works out, a trade may not be needed, but maybe in July.

Ryan

Pulled from a couple of chats:
——————————————

Comment From TJ
Who does Miami trade by the deadline and what can they get in return? Tons of guys who will have no role on the 2014 team
2:25

Tim Dierkes:
They can move Nolasco or Pierre for minor leaguers we’ve never heard of, and Slowey and Dunn for ones we might have heard of depending on how they’re throwing. Dunn might be the best trade chip, Stanton aside.

—

Comment From Rick Hahn
You believe me when I say “no fire sale” for the White Sox?
2:21

Tim Dierkes:
Hahn said it’s possible they become sellers, but it’s too early to make that decision. Perfectly reasonable. The team is 3.5 games out in the wild card, best rotation in the league with John Danks coming back too. If a few guys start to get on base, and they find some kind of reclamation project bat, who knows?

—

Comment From Anon21
By how long has the bodily ascension of Our Savior Bryce Harper and his Choir of Celestial Nationals into the annals of baseball history has been delayed? There’s still time for them to bypa$s the ’27 Yankees as the Greatest Team in Baseball History, right?

9:35
Jeff Sullivan: It’s worth noting that the projections didn’t absolutely love the Nationals before the season started. They were optimistic, but not as optimistic as some of the rest of us. And we probably aren’t smarter than projections

Jeff Sullivan: Nationals projected to be a half-game worse than the Pirates the rest of the way

9:36
Jeff Sullivan: And their lack of starting pitching depth hasn’t even yet been exposed

====

I pasted these excerpts to highlight that Nolasco could be picked up for just about a pittance in prospects so long as the money is covered, that trading for Jake Peavy can’t happen while the Sox are still in a race, and that Lefty is probably right about the Nationals. Maybe last season was flukey for them.

channelclemente

You all know Pill has been at 3B a lot in Fresno, I hope.

South City Jim

It’s early and maybe someone is injured, but the Nationals LU is not long enough. After Desmond, they essentially had three pitchers batting last night in the 7-9 spots and I’m not certain that Duke wasn’t the best hitter of the three.

oil can boyd

Belt cant hit lefties- Pill will play vs Gio Wednesday and should start vs future LHP starters. Belt’s 2013 splits vs LHP- .577 ops and 35% K rate- only 2 extra base hits. All of Belt’s 6 HRs have been vs RHP, against whom he has a .830 ops. Belt can come in for defense.

Ryan

Maybe it’s time to send a message to the Merc.

Let’s jam up the moderation queue until they can pull it together.

Send a message destined for moderation:

“Hey Merc IT,

pull your head out of your a$ses.

This moderation is a$sinine.

time to send you back to programming clas$es.”

Ryan

Hey Merc IT,

pull your head out of your asses.

This moderation is ass-inine.

time to send you back to programming classes.

CB

Belt won’t start tomorrow vs. lefty Gio unless he goes off against Strasburg which is very highly unlikely. Pill should get the spot start at first vs. Gio. I like that matchup of Pill v Gio anyways cause Gio would own Belt, IMO.

WOJ: You just don’t get it when it comes to Belt. Could be because he’s long, gangly and sports a goofy grin, making the whole picture not so purdy when he’s in flailing mode. But have you been keeping track lately? How many lonnng AB’s has he taken? Even when those AB’s terminate in a SO, they have had the effect of wearing down the starter. When BB9 draws a walk or gets a hit on one of those occasions he had done double duty offensively.

Was being just slightly hyperbolic when stating i would only MAYBE trade him even up for Kershaw. Reason? Giants grow pitchers (1) Five tool position players often have careers stretching out well over a decade(2) Pitchers (with some rare exceptions) rarely maintain ace status for more than a few seasons. They wear down faster than position players(3). So no matter how good Kershaw happens to be right now ~ and forget Belt for Cliff Lee who is likely to go over the edge in the next 2-3 seasons~ BB9 could well have another decade or more as anything from a decently above average player to a dominant super-star. He does have the tools. His confidence grows with his innings played.

My confidence in the continued development of Belt does not in any way cast aspersions on Brett Pill. He could become the Dusty Rhodes of the current Giants as i mentioned earlier today. He is the logical go-to when SF is obliged to play in Dink Hitter venues. With a few reps here and there in The Show, if he does have what it takes as an MLB hitter, he will become excellent trade-bait, who along with an MLB reliever or an AA or high A starting prospect, could bring home as high as a #4 starter from an offensively challenged Junior League outfit.

We’re dealing with pretty small sample sizes but BB9’s performance against left handed pitching isn’t that far below Andres Torres’ performance against lefties this year. My gut tells me that Pill might be a better option in LF than at 1st.

SurfCity

Can Pill pitch? We need to find a way to get him and Belt in the line-up together.

Kung Fu Panza

Even when they’re unlucky, they’re lucky: Vogelscheiße’s is the worst of an underachieving rotation, and at least he hurt himself immediately prior to his usual meltdown inning.

fergie348

I just looked up Joaquin Arias’ hitting stats – my goodness.. When will Craw get another day off?

Mo P

Wow, I didn’t really see that coming but here are excerpts from Bobby Evans on 957…

They actually like Heston over Kickham b/c he is a control pitcher. He even said Heston has been pitching better, and did mention the 5 ER he gave up in the first inning today and then settled down after that.

He also said that a lot of pitcher development comes from the majors, when asked whether Heston or Kickham are ML ready. I guess I agree, Bumgarner had 14 starts in Fresno before he was called up. Timmy had 4 starts in AA & AAA combined! But those were top 10 draft picks.

Technically the best starter in Fresno is someone who has been in the majors. Shane Loux. I’m guessing they went with Rosario b/c he has options? Ramon Ramirez has pitched better than Rosario, but when Casilla returns, then Ramirez must be waived?

Anti-Lasorda

Amazing how short a lineup up can look when you have to play 2 back ups or 2 guys fall off the table.

Reminds me of re-living 2011 when Huff, Ross, Torres and Tejada went the high dive….

With all the conjecture of possible pitchers etc.
Coming from a completely different angle.
If I could I would try to make a deal with the Jays to get Ricky Romero to come home to California, and have Rags and Gardy, straighten him out. I suspect we could pick him up for a reasonable offer.
I’ve always liked Romero, still believe he has good potential, and would not be expensive.

ClutchUp

@PANZA

Bye Bye now…

channelclemente

Ryan,

I saw parts/most of 3 games on TV in Fresno since he went down. He, if I recall, was at 3B for all or part of those games. I can only speculate he wasn’t dressing the infield, but was getting a ‘look see’ at the position. I have no notion what the Fresno ‘brain trust’ thought of it. But, since we already have a 1B and 3B, I’d speculate he’s being measured for some kind of utility job that may include LF.

oil can boyd

Fergie-
Bochy has been dealing with Belt’s inability to hit LHP by putting Buster at 1B with Quiroz catching against some LHPs. This scenario may play out Wednesday vs Gio G since it is a day game after a night game for Posey. If so, Gs could put Pill in left rather than Torres who, until Monday, had numbers vs lefties as bad as Belt’s. Gio Gonzales is no Zach Duke.

So C.C., how do you assess Yu Darvish’s pitching “translation” to the Majors, some 14 months after you were against signing him for straight cash, but no prospects in trade?

And this was after the Giants traded their #1 Starting Pitching Prospect for a 2-month rental of Beltran, leaving the Minors woefully thin of Show-ready Starters.

DPassovoy

Sorry those didn’t come out better they looked fine in the entry box.

al oha

so i get moderated for the word “a$$e$$”? mierda de toro

ClutchUp

NorthShore Al

Author an email or 20.

See my 111pm post

kevin56

VS. lefties this season: Pagan .234 .578 and Belt .241 .577
If Pill must play, put Pill in left, Torres in center and keep Belt at first.
Best overall arrangement if Pill has to play.

Lefty

Oh, hi, all. Didn’t mean to start something. I was busy getting my hair done. I have time to do that because I’m on sabbatical.

I have no feminine intuition about Belt being traded, and I’m not a lawyer (married to one, though). I just said that because I thought it was so seriously odd to bring Pill up again three days after sending him down because they need pitchers–when they arguably need pitchers even MORE now that Vogelsong and Casilla are on the DL. It seemed so strange to me that I wondered if a trade of Belt for a pitcher was imminent and that’s why they need Pill here tonight.

Angry Dan’s comment awhile ago–that this is just the first of several moves in the next few days–makes sense. So I guess we’ll see what happens next.

EricR

Pill hasn’t shown me anything outside of his HR against Kershaw that HE can hit LHP. It gets brought up that Belt can’t hit lefties at a major league level, but you know who REALLY can’t hit them? Pill. 76 wRC+ against LHP over 114 PA. Now that Belt’s career splits are starting to regress to the mean he’s showing himself to have no gigantic platoon split. Yes he’s his poorly against LHP this year (in 30 whopping PA), and yes his 6 home runs this year have come against RHP, but last year 5 of his 7 came against LHP.

It’s odd to me that people are talking about Pill as if he does even one thing better than Belt. He’s a good guy to have on the bench. He should not ever start over Belt if the only reason is “platoon advantage”.

Small sample sizes, both, but that’s what we’ve got. Pill has more pop? Even if you doubled his ABs, he’d still have fewer HRs than Belt and the same number of RBIs–and Belt’s slash line is much better.

And that’s with Pill having the “advantage” of being a right-handed hitter against lefties.

channelclemente

Lefty,

Bochy in an interview I read somewhere said how seriously troubled he was to have to send Pill down. It had nothing to do with his play, and everything to do with the crisis that was developing among the pitching staff. Pill just had the most options to come and go to Fresno when considered among who was going to have to move to make room for an arm. It came down to Pill or Arias, and Arias role as a infield multiposition backup trumped other considerations.

CC: I can appreciate why it was troubling to send Pill down. He’s been raking in AAA and had two hits in his one start in Denver. That doesn’t change the facts: The pitching is a mess. The offense is doing fine (17 hits and 8 runs last night). And it’s not any less of a mess than it was three days ago when they sent him down.

Lefty

From Twitter:

Bochy says Petit “would have been a front-runner” to replace Vogelsong if he didn’t have an oblique injury. (Everybody should bow their heads for a prayer of thanks right now. Sorry, Petit.)

He also said that Kickham and Loux are the main candidates to come up, especially considering Heston’s rough start today.

Vogelsong’s surgery went well.

ClutchUp

I think the SF hurlers “throw better” @ ATT and for a few days this … works.

At least that’s what Andrea the Astrologer told Miss Cleo.

ClutchUp

Bochy does twitter? OMG

Smh
Bmh

Head rolling on floor.

Tks for the news Lefty. Was there a Giant buzz at the Salon?

channelclemente

I saw Kickham’s last outing. He will, IMO, get eaten alive by ML hitters. Boy do I hope he listens to Posey, or this stay will be Otero-esque. Kid, put the ball where he says, the way he says.

Lefty

Sorry–no, Bochy doesn’t do Twitter. He did an interview on the radio today and people were tweeting about it!

channelclemente

Drum roll, sad horn. Mattingly is setting records with the Dodgers, not good ones.

See Lefty, all you had to do was mention the trade machine and he comes out, shiny and new with a big stick to stir the shite with……

*lmaorotfpimp*

Anti-Lasorda

See Lefty, all you had to do was mention the trade and Belt in the same sentence and the trade machine and comes out, shiny and new with a big stick to stir the poo-poo witth……

*lmaorotfpimp*

Anti-Lasorda

CC,

Rosenthal, Morosi, Miller and others have said tomorrow is Donnie’s last day. They have an offday Thursday before opening a new Homer on Friday……

It was all the gossip of twitter on Sunday after the lifeless sweep against the Bravos.

Reaper

oil can, need to get your head out of the clouds. Belt has had only 29 ABs against lefties this year. Hardly enough to come to conclusions. I hope Bochy isn’t as foolish. Belt’s career AVG and SLG are BETTER against lefties than righties. Let the kid play. Pill can be a decent guy off the bench, but he’s almost 30 years old and shouldn’t be taking regular playing time away from Belt as you suggest.

Anti-Lasorda

Dr. Lefty,

I don’t know what was the bigger GE fantasy…..

Getting to fantasize about an intelligent Giants diehard work the pole, or YOU of all people proposing a trade of Belt…….

Wow…

Got them both before the ASG in 2013.

Great year. 😉

Anti-Lasorda

Dr. Lefty,

I don’t know what was the bigger GE fantasy…..

Getting to nervously imagine an intelligent Giant’s diehard work the bra$$pole at the Tropicana; or YOU of all people proposing a trade of Belt…….

Wow…

Got them both before the ASG in 2013.

Great year.

Skweezplay

We always hear that “(So-and-so)’s surgery went well.” I trust that Vogelsong’s surgery did, in fact, go well. I am hoping the best for him. He is a great warrior and a world series champion.

But, of course, every surgery produces the same report doesn’t it?

Guess we will never hear, “(So-and-so)’s surgery was so horribly botched that he now has only three fingers on each hand. Both thumbs were lost as well.”

I don’t think I was “proposing” a trade of Belt. Just wondering if one might be in the works. I’ve mentioned before that he could be traded for a pitcher before the July deadline. Now they need a pitcher sooner than that.

If they really think Pablo or Buster might move to 1B in the next couple of years, Belt’s long-term future with the Giants might be cloudy, and his trade value is probably about as good as anyone’s right now.

I’m not saying that’s how I want it to go. Just trying to be a phony GM.

No panic trades, please. Let’s see what the minor league coaches have developed.

The Giants were playing .550 ball with Vogelsong getting lit up on a fairly regular basis. Giving Kickham or Gaudin or Heston or whomever a start or two won’t kill them.

The Oracle

Belt was 2-2 against a lefty last night. Two or three weeks into the 2011 season, Larry Kreuger announced that Frank Gore was “done.” He trashed Bogut all season long. Kreuger talks because that’s his job. It doesn’t mean he says anything worth listening to.

Lefty

CC: In my opinion, it’s Ned Colletti who should take the fall for that horrible bullpen, not Mattingly. Seriously, $22 million for Brandon League? A guy who blew six saves by May last year and got demoted as the MARINERS’ closer?

Said it yesterday. Two fantastic closers–Jason Grilli and Rafael Soriano–were there for the taking. They lasted months on the market. Money is no object for the Dodgers, right? And yet he immediately re-signed League.

channelclemente

Some may think this a strange pov, but Vogelsong with 2 months or so off, may be the difference maker in August and September. If he can sustain his focus, he may be like a hungry tiger when he comes back, rested and really with something to prove.

Lefty

Oh, Larry Krueger trashed Belt? I see it all so differently now. I take back every supportive word I’ve ever said about BB9. Bench him. Demote him. Drown him in McCovey Cove!

channelclemente

Lefty,

IMHO, it should be a duet, although that team ought to have ownership’s hand slapped for stupidity and lack of baseball knowledge. But then, it was all always about the property to the Guggenheims anyway.

channelclemente

Kreuger as an opinion, not the opinion.

25Lunes

Start Pill in LF?

South City Jim

Ryan,

Werth and Espinosa are the ones I forgot about. Nevermind.

oil can boyd

Reaper- Numbers don’t lie- 2013 is different for Belt and it appears that lefties not named Zach Duke or Jeff Francis have his number. He is striking out more than 35% of the time with only two extra base hits vs LHP this year. Fortunately for Belt, I believe that the Gs only face two lefties (Gio Gonzales and Tommy Milone) in the next 10 days.

I’m doing my part -never listen to KNBR from 9am thru 3pm unless there is a game on.

Mo P

Ok phony GM nice discussion.

To me, a Belt trade makes no sense. Nonewhatsoever.

Mo P

Matthew: Yeah, I have a good routine, M&M in the morning (KNBR), then switch over to the game… and occasionally tune in for Tolbert.

Garry/Larry/Brooks/Fitz are just bad radio.

Lefty

oil can boyd says:
May 21st, 2013 at 3:16 pm

Reaper- Numbers don’t lie- 2013 is different for Belt and it appears that lefties not named Zach Duke or Jeff Francis have his number.
————–
ALL numbers lie when the date is May 22. About anyone.

They especially lie when you’re talking about 29 ABs (30 PAs).

ClutchUp

Chris_Boyd

Maybe fight off the urge for the sexual double entendre every so often when talkin baseball with our esteemed female brethern or you end up sounding like krukow needing a 3 day on assignment due to his former telestrator faux pas.

Down boy Anti :o/

Reaper

Kreuger sometimes annoys me with his stubborn and less than educated views, but at least he has them. He isn’t bad when he has someone to keep him in check like a Damon Bruce. Gary doesn’t even have opinions anymore. He is basically a mascot. Pathetic show.

ClutchUp

Thread

Moooooooooooose

What Lefty said. Just up ^^ there.

channelclemente

Now wait a minute guys, Kreuger can be great preparation for developing the tolerance to ignore ‘he who shall not be named’. Beside, most of what the boy says now is counterpoint to play to his morning Radnich duet.

Lefty others, if one wants to follow Belt or others, plot his numbers day by day, or PA by PA over time. With small N that’s about the only way to get a sense of what’s going on. Even that is dicey though. I have an acquaintance who is following a young player he’s interested in by weighting the numbers with who the pitching opposition is and what count he gets a hit in for every PA. Now that’s admittedly a little hard core, but at low sample number, that’s what your left with, unless you go crazy and use something like jack knife or resampling…sort of the ultimate hardcore.