Hmm... the only thing I worry about is the weed... only because of Rogers so I think I'm overly sensetive. But I don't know why people are worried for a few mistakes here or there. If he passes screening now then that is a sign he can keep clean for the NFL (unlike some others in the past).

Hmm... the only thing I worry about is the weed... only because of Rogers so I think I'm overly sensetive. But I don't know why people are worried for a few mistakes here or there. If he passes screening now then that is a sign he can keep clean for the NFL (unlike some others in the past).

Prolly, but the main thing is how many times they get caught before they decide to stop. Smoking isn't really that big of a deal, but it can really be a problem for some people. It is illegal, so it becomes a bit of a problem for players. A higher risk than one who doesn't.

Prolly, but the main thing is how many times they get caught before they decide to stop. Smoking isn't really that big of a deal, but it can really be a problem for some people. It is illegal, so it becomes a bit of a problem for players. A higher risk than one who doesn't.

true

_________________Just one Super Bowl win before I go!

March 16th, 2011, 1:20 am

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10408Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Is Smith off our radar?

Personally, I dropped Jimmy Smith in my overall rankings not due to any past issues, but because of what I saw during the Combine drills. He just didn't show great burst out of his backpedal, and he struggled to turn his hips in direction changes. Those two things tell me all I need to know. Aaron Williams had the exact same issues, and that is what led to Deion saying that he would be better off moving to safety. Smith didn't struggle as badly as Williams, but I have a feeling Jimmy Smith will struggle at the next level in coverage against top receivers. He will especially struggle against receivers who explode out of their breaks without slowing down. That is not the mark of a top cover corner.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

March 16th, 2011, 8:45 am

liontrax

NFL Team Captain

Joined: March 21st, 2005, 2:11 pmPosts: 1597Location: Wolverine, Mi.

Re: Is Smith off our radar?

m2karateman wrote:

Personally, I dropped Jimmy Smith in my overall rankings not due to any past issues, but because of what I saw during the Combine drills. He just didn't show great burst out of his backpedal, and he struggled to turn his hips in direction changes. Those two things tell me all I need to know. Aaron Williams had the exact same issues, and that is what led to Deion saying that he would be better off moving to safety. Smith didn't struggle as badly as Williams, but I have a feeling Jimmy Smith will struggle at the next level in coverage against top receivers. He will especially struggle against receivers who explode out of their breaks without slowing down. That is not the mark of a top cover corner.

Maybe with the right coaching, these guys improve. If they have the required athleticism to begin with. I can't say I believe there are any "top cover corners" in this years draft. When I watched Amukamara in drills, felt he looked stiff and robotic. Brandon Harris looked the smoothest in drills, I thought.

March 16th, 2011, 4:36 pm

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10408Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Is Smith off our radar?

liontrax wrote:

Maybe with the right coaching, these guys improve. If they have the required athleticism to begin with. I can't say I believe there are any "top cover corners" in this years draft. When I watched Amukamara in drills, felt he looked stiff and robotic. Brandon Harris looked the smoothest in drills, I thought.

I completely agree. Harris did look the smoothest, but there's something to be said about his poor vertical leap and how it translates into his ability to break on the ball out of his backpedal. He does seem to have more fluid hips than Smith, Amukamara and even Peterson.

I agree that you can't teach athleticism or speed. You either have it or you don't. But poor technique can't be covered by speed or athleticism in the NFL like it can in college. However, good technique and instincts can overcome a small lack of athletic talent in the NFL. It's best if you can find the total package, of course. Based on that, I think that's the reason why Amukamara and Peterson are rated higher than Harris. They have more athletic talent overall, even if Harris is a bit smoother.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

March 17th, 2011, 2:23 pm

liontrax

NFL Team Captain

Joined: March 21st, 2005, 2:11 pmPosts: 1597Location: Wolverine, Mi.

Re: Is Smith off our radar?

m2karateman wrote:

liontrax wrote:

Maybe with the right coaching, these guys improve. If they have the required athleticism to begin with. I can't say I believe there are any "top cover corners" in this years draft. When I watched Amukamara in drills, felt he looked stiff and robotic. Brandon Harris looked the smoothest in drills, I thought.

I completely agree. Harris did look the smoothest, but there's something to be said about his poor vertical leap and how it translates into his ability to break on the ball out of his backpedal. He does seem to have more fluid hips than Smith, Amukamara and even Peterson.

I agree that you can't teach athleticism or speed. You either have it or you don't. But poor technique can't be covered by speed or athleticism in the NFL like it can in college. However, good technique and instincts can overcome a small lack of athletic talent in the NFL. It's best if you can find the total package, of course. Based on that, I think that's the reason why Amukamara and Peterson are rated higher than Harris. They have more athletic talent overall, even if Harris is a bit smoother.

Looks as though Harris and Smith have fallen to the back of the 1st. If the anointed top two are gone by the time we pick, and there is no trade back, there will be other CB's in the 2nd and 3rd. House and Dowling are intriguing prospects imo, both are bigger corners with good speed.

March 17th, 2011, 6:54 pm

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10408Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Is Smith off our radar?

liontrax wrote:

Looks as though Harris and Smith have fallen to the back of the 1st. If the anointed top two are gone by the time we pick, and there is no trade back, there will be other CB's in the 2nd and 3rd. House and Dowling are intriguing prospects imo, both are bigger corners with good speed.

You're right, both House and Dowling are intriguing. Dowling has an injury history though, and his tweaking his hamstring during his first 40 run didn't help alleviate that concern. House is a small schooler, but I think he has the potential to be pretty good. He looked pretty smooth in positional drills at the Combines.

However, if you look at the Combines workout numbers the player that many teams are taking a harder look at is Curtis Brown. He ran "only" a 4.51 forty, but his 10 and 20 yard split times were not that bad. Where he impressed was in the other measured areas. 10'08" broad jump, 39.5" vertical, 4.00 shuttle are all equal to or better than Peterson, Amukamara, Smith, Harris or Williams. His 6.59 three cone drill was only .01 seconds slower than Patrick Peterson. I watched him in the positional drills, and he didn't look as tight as Jimmy Smith or Aaron Williams, but not quite as smooth as Harris.

The other guy to look at, based on workout numbers, is Buster Skrine. 4.37 forty, 20 reps of BP, 37" vert, 10'02" broad jump, 3.9 in the shuttle and 6.44 in the three cone. Unbelievable measurables, and Deion was talking about how he'd like to get a chance to work with Buster because he's raw but shows tremendous potential. I think someone takes a flyer on this kid early to mid round three.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

What happened to Aaron Williams? Going into the season, he was considered either the 2nd or 3rd best CB in college. He didn't have a bad year by anyone's estimation. So, how did he go from a 1st round, 2nd or 3rd best CB, to a 2nd round, 5th or 6th best CB, without having a bad year? Some even consider his team mate opposite him, Brown, as being higher ranked than him.

He didn't suck at all. And I for 1 would be thrilled if he is there for us in the 2nd round.

March 18th, 2011, 10:09 am

liontrax

NFL Team Captain

Joined: March 21st, 2005, 2:11 pmPosts: 1597Location: Wolverine, Mi.

Re: Is Smith off our radar?

m2karateman wrote:

liontrax wrote:

Looks as though Harris and Smith have fallen to the back of the 1st. If the anointed top two are gone by the time we pick, and there is no trade back, there will be other CB's in the 2nd and 3rd. House and Dowling are intriguing prospects imo, both are bigger corners with good speed.

You're right, both House and Dowling are intriguing. Dowling has an injury history though, and his tweaking his hamstring during his first 40 run didn't help alleviate that concern. House is a small schooler, but I think he has the potential to be pretty good. He looked pretty smooth in positional drills at the Combines.

However, if you look at the Combines workout numbers the player that many teams are taking a harder look at is Curtis Brown. He ran "only" a 4.51 forty, but his 10 and 20 yard split times were not that bad. Where he impressed was in the other measured areas. 10'08" broad jump, 39.5" vertical, 4.00 shuttle are all equal to or better than Peterson, Amukamara, Smith, Harris or Williams. His 6.59 three cone drill was only .01 seconds slower than Patrick Peterson. I watched him in the positional drills, and he didn't look as tight as Jimmy Smith or Aaron Williams, but not quite as smooth as Harris.

The other guy to look at, based on workout numbers, is Buster Skrine. 4.37 forty, 20 reps of BP, 37" vert, 10'02" broad jump, 3.9 in the shuttle and 6.44 in the three cone. Unbelievable measurables, and Deion was talking about how he'd like to get a chance to work with Buster because he's raw but shows tremendous potential. I think someone takes a flyer on this kid early to mid round three.

Agree with your take on Brown, felt his ball skills were impressive on top of the things you mentioned. Like Skrine as well, just for the numbers and potential. All these kids were talking about (Dowling, House, Brown, Skrine) are currently being projected late 2 through mid 4th depending on what board your looking at. If the Lions can trade back in the 1st and/or the 2nd to garner more selections in that area, could go a long way towards solidifying the secondary. Feel the same way about the LB's in this years draft. The real wealth of these two positions lies with developing players taken with mid-round picks.

March 18th, 2011, 10:44 am

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10408Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Is Smith off our radar?

BillySims wrote:

What happened to Aaron Williams? Going into the season, he was considered either the 2nd or 3rd best CB in college. He didn't have a bad year by anyone's estimation. So, how did he go from a 1st round, 2nd or 3rd best CB, to a 2nd round, 5th or 6th best CB, without having a bad year? Some even consider his team mate opposite him, Brown, as being higher ranked than him.

He didn't suck at all. And I for 1 would be thrilled if he is there for us in the 2nd round.

Billy...just a quick question. Did you watch the corner workouts at the Combines? I did, and Aaron Williams is not an NFL corner. He may have done well in college, but his workouts were telling. He has VERY stiff hips. He took two or three extra steps to get his hips turned and had to slow down on top of it. NFL receivers will destroy him, even second receivers. His future lies in being a safety. Even Deion Sanders was commenting on how Williams is not a future corner in the NFL because of this. I don't agree with everything Deion says, but I think he nailed this one completely.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

March 19th, 2011, 10:23 pm

The Legend

Team President - Rod Wood

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 5021Location: WSU

Re: Is Smith off our radar?

Quote:

Billy...just a quick question. Did you watch the corner workouts at the Combines? I did, and Aaron Williams is not an NFL corner. He may have done well in college, but his workouts were telling. He has VERY stiff hips. He took two or three extra steps to get his hips turned and had to slow down on top of it. NFL receivers will destroy him, even second receivers. His future lies in being a safety. Even Deion Sanders was commenting on how Williams is not a future corner in the NFL because of this. I don't agree with everything Deion says, but I think he nailed this one completely.

with all due respect, comments like these are purely insane. you are generalizing someone based on a workout on a field without pads or competing players. there are so many missing variables that separate this kind of a performance vs that in a game or even a practice. maybe williams did have "Stiff hips" as you suggest in this workout - but relative to other players it could be completely different with pads on in a game. Maybe the difference bw that workout and a game is that he has good rxn time and even though his hips arent great he makes up for it by reacting more quickly than a quicker player with a slower recognition time or that he can cover someone and still have a sense of what the QB is doing or where the QB is looking. Maybe he can t be a great cover corner but can still play zone. Maybe he doesnt do either well but makes up for it by catching the tipped or misthrown balls that many drop that could end up being game winners. Whatever it is, you are using tunnel vision by focusing on this one thing. ESPNs scouting report on him based on game tape actuallys says he "changes directions well" and has "fluid hips" - exactly the opposite of what you are saying. Im not saying you are right or wrong, just pointing out how ludicrous your comment that "Aaron Williams is not an NFL corner" really is based on watching a 5-10 second drill a couple times. He is currently ranked as the No 4 Corner and no 33 prospect overall by espn meaning that all indications are that he will in fact be an NFL corner.

March 22nd, 2011, 11:07 pm

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10408Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Is Smith off our radar?

The Legend wrote:

with all due respect, comments like these are purely insane. you are generalizing someone based on a workout on a field without pads or competing players. there are so many missing variables that separate this kind of a performance vs that in a game or even a practice. maybe williams did have "Stiff hips" as you suggest in this workout - but relative to other players it could be completely different with pads on in a game. Maybe the difference bw that workout and a game is that he has good rxn time and even though his hips arent great he makes up for it by reacting more quickly than a quicker player with a slower recognition time or that he can cover someone and still have a sense of what the QB is doing or where the QB is looking. Maybe he can t be a great cover corner but can still play zone. Maybe he doesnt do either well but makes up for it by catching the tipped or misthrown balls that many drop that could end up being game winners. Whatever it is, you are using tunnel vision by focusing on this one thing. ESPNs scouting report on him based on game tape actuallys says he "changes directions well" and has "fluid hips" - exactly the opposite of what you are saying. Im not saying you are right or wrong, just pointing out how ludicrous your comment that "Aaron Williams is not an NFL corner" really is based on watching a 5-10 second drill a couple times. He is currently ranked as the No 4 Corner and no 33 prospect overall by espn meaning that all indications are that he will in fact be an NFL corner.

Insane? Really? Then why hold the Combines at all? Why have private workouts, or pro days? Just for the Hell of it?

Sorry Legend, but there's a reason why the NFL holds these events. While you may hold stock in what ESPN has to say, I hold stock in what my eyes tell me. These workouts were a chance to see how he does compared to others at his position, one after the other. Putting on pads doesn't make you more fluid, at all. If anything it's quite the opposite. Watching game tape is good as well, but the problem with that is he's playing CB against college WRs and QBs, not NFL guys.

And just an FYI, this wasn't just my opinion. The three commentators, including Deion Sanders, were seeing and saying the same things. Just because ESPN has this kid so highly ranked doesn't mean he's going to succeed in the NFL. Williams wasn't particularly explosive out of his backpedal, didn't turn well, and his other tests weren't exactly newsworthy. Is he a good football player? Yes. But my opinion is that it won't be at CB.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

March 23rd, 2011, 6:45 am

Wayne Fontes

Color Commentator - John Madden

Joined: January 19th, 2007, 3:21 amPosts: 1920Location: A2

Re: Is Smith off our radar?

You can't base your assessment strictly on his Combine workout, or off of his statistics. Lots of NFL GM's will look at all the workouts and stats, but when it comes down to it, it's how the guy plays when you turn on the film. Does Aaron Williams have "stiff hips"? Probably stiffer then you would prefer. Does he have NFL talent? Yes. You draft him in a BPA situation and I'm pretty sure you'll be happy with him.