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i can kind of understand taking baseball out of the olympics considering the lack of major leaguers and the overall lack of interest, but why the hell would they get rid of wrestling? forget for a second that wrestling has a history going back to ancient greece, and just focus on the fact that it's the perfect sport for an international competition. you can be competitive in it regardless of whether you come from a country with money or without, with more than 1 billion people or with less than 1 million, whether you're from africa or siberia, or iran or brazil, whether you're 120 lbs or 280, you can compete and you can win.

it is unfathomable to me that this could even be considered, let alone be done.

I'm glad we're cutting down on the frou frou and getting down to the core sports that the Olympics were always about, like dancing with a colorful ribbon or dancing with your friend in the water. Maybe if we can cut out some of these track & field events (running around an oval? what year are we in that that's entertaining? 3?), they'll have room for compelling, modern events like double-dutch.

Get in line. I mean, I WANT baseball to be in the Olympics, but it's not a necessity to either baseball or the Olympics. But wrestling NEEDS to be in the Olympics, and the Olympics NEED wrestling to be in it. It's a sport that often provides some of the best moments, and unlike some sports it isn't really dominated by any one country. Sure, Eastern Europe and the USA do the best, but Canada and the Mid-East do well too. As opposed to, say, table tennis, which is 100% Asian dominated, or rhythmic gymnastics, which basically is a showcase simply for Eastern Europe and occasionally China.

And, besides, WRESTLING HAS BEEN IN THE OLYMPICS SINCE ANCIENT ####### TIMES! I mean, jeez, why not remove Track and Field while you are at it?

I still say that the Olympics should be something like 20 sports that are always in and never are removed (and Wrestling would be one of them), and then 6+ sports (depending on finances and available venues) that can be left up to the host, so long as those sports have been "recognized" by the IOC.

So, like, if the USA had the Olympics, then baseball and softball would definitely be in while a sport like table tennis or handball might not be. On the other hand, though, if Turkey got the Olympics (they are in the running for 2020), then baseball and softball probably wouldn't be played, but other sports that are more popular or played more in Turkey could be.

Stephen Fry told me that Greek athletes weren't entirely unadorned. They did have a bit of string tied off around their genitals to keep them from flopping about (and which their coaches could tug on to get their attention).

QI is where I turn to get all my most accurate historical information.

Just as with baseball, wrestling is a victim of a crooked, Western Europe-dominated IOC. Baseball is popular in Asia and the Americas, but not Western Europe, so its out. Wrestling is huge pretty much everywhere but Western Europe, so its out. Of course, with baseball there were at least a few legitimate factors that cut against inclusion. Here, its next to impossible to see what legitimate factors cut against wrestling relative to about half of the other sports. Modern pentathlon is an obvious one, but what is the legitimate argument for cutting wrestling and keeping archery? Badminton? Canoeing? Judo? Rowing? Sailing? Shooting? Taekwondo? Its not TV ratings or attendance. Its sure as hell not "global participation and popularity." I don't know anything about the anti-doping policy of wrestling, but I haven't heard anything particularly negative and apparently cycling is OK, so I can't imagine that's a factor.

If only there were a world government so I could write my representative to complain.

That's 27 sports plus wrestling. Guessing a couple of cases are merged but listed separately for some reason. Now, can someone explain why equestrian is there, or sailing? Both sports purely for the rich with minimal if any TV audience. Shooting? That makes golf look exhausting. Pentathlon is just a bizarre mix. Weightlifting should probably be removed due to the crazy level of PED use - the average weightlifter makes Barry Bonds look normal. The rest I can see an argument for (table tennis is very big in Asia for example) but those ones are just weird to keep over wrestling, baseball, squash and probably a few of the others in consideration.

If roller sports gets in though I'd have to say the IOC has really 'jumped the shark'...heck, jumped every shark there is.

the pentathalon had one of their biggest supporters on the committee voting. so that helped the sport staying on the docket

Yeah, apparently it had a lot to do with the fact that Antonio Samaranch's son is a big-time name in Modern Pentathlon. Of course, Samaranch, if memory serves, was a "Big Olympics" kind of guy who didn't mind having lots of sports in the games. Compare that to Rogge, who is generally a "small games" kind of guy, and who basically drove the movement to have the amount of sports be capped. It'll be interesting to see who takes over for him, and whether he's a big games guy or a small games guy.

I agree with the principle behind it- it allows smaller countries to host Olympic games, for example- but that it forces all these sports to go against each other leaves a sour taste in my mouth. That's another reason why I like my idea of having 20 or so sports guaranteed and then a minimum of 6 added by the host: it could be the best of both worlds. If a city in a smaller economy like, say, South Africa, wants to have the games, they can just have 26. But if a Los Angeles were to get the games, they could conceivably have over 30 sports being played.

I'm hoping the plan is to replace plain old boring wrestling with awesome cool pro-wrestling.

If a wrestling promoter creates an IOC-member character as a heel, I totally will watch.

I've only wrestled for 5 minutes or so in high school gym, but I find it a lot of fun to watch. As mentioned above, you need exactly zero gear to do it. Anyone who has seen Chris Taylor's undoing by the Bulgarian wrestler or Rulon Gardner beating the invincible Russian could not forget those scenes.
Why the heck have tennis or soccer in the Olympics? Those games are played in a worldwide sense all the time. Obviously this was done to make room for men's synchronized swimming.

Seems silly to be saying 'small places can have the games' as the cost is astronomical to run one no matter what. Cutting baseball/softball made sense as the stadiums were good for just those sports and counted for just 2 medal ceremonies while needing 20+ players per team. I hated seeing them cut, but certainly understand it. Cycling track is also one that probably should be cut in the respect of keeping costs down - the cycling track in Montreal (1976) was turned into a place for plants for example and is good only for cycling really. Golf would be good for just golf, but given any major city in the world that could hold an Olympics would already have a high end golf course I don't see it as a barrier. Canoe/kayak, rowing, and sailing just need a big body of water with markers don't they? That should keep their costs down.

IMO they should keep it big. But oddball stuff like adding trampoline, the dozens of similar events (multiple weight classes, the many lengths of running, etc.) could be cut back with 99% of people never noticing I suspect. Still trying to figure out 'dressage' for horses and how that remotely qualifies as a sport (you have your horse basically prance around the ring).

If cutbacks or limits are needed, I say have a number of venue limit so you don't add baseball or golf for that matter but keep things like wrestling which can share a venue with other sports. Figure out something that can make use of the cycling racetrack or get rid of it. That type of stuff would actually cut costs. Beach volleyball might be a one-off 'stadium' but given it is just a giant sandbox I doubt it is a killer cost and could technically be moved into any other arena... hmm, maybe put it at the center of the cycling stadium and have them doing beach volleyball with cyclists zipping around.

Wresting probably doesn't get the TV ratings in the US --which brings in most of the Olympic money -- but eliminating wrestling is like the Nobel Prize Committee dropping Medicine. Reflects very poorly on the IOC.

Of the 39 gold medals that Turkey has won, 28 of them have been in wrestling (and 58 of 87 total medals).
Istanbul is in the running for the 2020 Olympics, so I can't imagine that wrestling will be missing from the competition if they win the bid.
That would be like taking out ice hockey when Vancouver won the winter Olympic bid, or taking out soccer from the London summer Olympic games.

The IOC is definitely going to reverse course and put wrestling back in if Istanbul is selected.

If roller sports gets in though I'd have to say the IOC has really 'jumped the shark'...heck, jumped every shark there is.

Until shark-jumping becomes an Olympic sport.

Canoe/kayak, rowing, and sailing just need a big body of water with markers don't they?

Whitewater kayak/canoe requires a course with enough rocks to be sufficiently challenging. Atlanta made a big deal out of using a real river instead of a man-made course. I love watching whitewater rowing on television.

I love the Olympics (especially on multiple channels with a DVR - fast forward right through the heartwarming crap) and Hate the IOC. I love the goofy sports you never see normally. I would much rather they get rid of basketball (and I am a huge b-ball fan) than any of the sports I watch only once every four years.

But I basically sign off of the sentiment above, wrestling should stay (and I don't even like it as a sport).

For the naysayers who are ripping trampoline, synchronized swimming, and rhythmic gymnastics... Well, I hate them, too. But per #22 those are part of larger categories, "aquatics" and "gymnastics", that aren't going anywhere. IOW, removing synchronized swimming still leaves "aquatics" as a core event.

Why this definition matters I don't know, but it does. Wrestling isn't being kept out by trampoline.

The IOC is definitely going to reverse course and put wrestling back in if Istanbul is selected.

Duck said it, but this move tells me Istanbul isn't getting the games.

And I'm with everyone else. Holy hell the IOC is crooked/stupid. Wrestling is an Olympic sport, period. I have no doubt lots of the little gimmicky sports require incredible skill and discipline but that isn't the point. I'm not sure what the point is, of course. The Olympics has the marketing and appeal to non-sports fans. There is probably no sport they could cut that would significantly cut ratings. They'd just tell different stories and folks would tune in.

But, to a sports fan, this is one of the dumber things I've ever seen.

Also, as said above, why cap the number of sports at all? I can see capping venues. I can see cutting sports that aren't traditional and aren't global or that have more prestigious competitions (I'm looking at you soccer, golf and tennis). But if all you need is a mat and jersey, have the freaking competition.

What's truly bizarre is that Europe is increasingly moving towards governance by institutions like the IOC and FIFA. You'd think instances like this would give pause to the enthusiasm for extranational, quasi- or non-democratic organizations.

Golf and Tennis are the 2 sports that make the least sense to me in having in the Olympics as both are individual events that winning a Gold medal in the Olympics would not be though as high as winning Wimbledon or the Masters. Atleast team event winning gold for you country could be seen higher than winning the World Series, Stanley Cup or the NBA Finals(what is that trophy called anyways?)

So, looking at the finalists to host in 202, I've got to say Madrid is the favorite. Istanbul (have to re-instate wrestling), and Tokyo (have to re-instate baseball) are screwed. Looking ahead to 2024, I'd say the front runner is Dubai.

Consider the three cities bidding for the rights to host the Olympics in 2020: Madrid, Istanbul and Tokyo. Wrestling is one of the most popular Olympic sports in Turkey. . . The loss of wrestling would be a blow to the Turks. Japan is the leading nation in women's wrestling, with strong contenders today, and presumably eight years down the road, in all four classes. The loss of wrestling would be a blow to the Japanese. But of the nations with bid cities in the mix for 2020, Spain is the most politically powerful of the three. Juan Antonio Samaranch Jr., the son of the former IOC president, is now an IOC executive board member. Wrestling is not as popular in Spain as it is in the other two countries. Samaranch is also a vice president of modern pentathlon's international committee and one of 15 IOC executive board members who voted on the sport program. No other EB member has direct ties to wrestling, modern pentathlon, taekwondo or field hockey.

Juan Antonio Samaranch was as crooked as they come, and the IOC is no better.

#51 Dick Pound was generally considered as Samaranch's likely successor, but he made a lot of enemies with his investigations on the corrupt practices wrt winning hosting bids. Rogge was quite literally the candidate of choice for the corrupt factions.

Sad thing is everyone loves the Olympics no matter how corrupt or messed up it is. Kind of like how people support a political party just because they always have regardless of policy or reality. Or a sports team for that matter - how else do you explain how there are still fans of the 100+ years with no title Cubs, the 'give us more money' Marlins, or the sub-500 since pre-strike days Pirates.

It's not certain to be gone. It just has very little chance of making the cut. It's now competing against baseball/softball, karate, roller sports, sport climbing, squash, wakeboarding and wushu for a slot.

EDIT: Think of it as being in a repechage.

I have to say that (as already mentioned) in recent games the wrestling has been generally dull, dour, defensive. Generally grinding out a low points victory. Maybe I shouldn't complain because that was the only way I ever won, but then I don't think anybody would have found my few bouts at all compelling.

But as dull as they've been, they've been a thrill ride next to the judo that's been on display in recent years.

As it happens, about a week ago I finished reading David Clay Large's Nazi Games: The Olympics of 1936, & if the author's accounts of the background of not only those Olympics but all the ones before it are in any way accurate, the whole thing has always been about as corrupt & stupid as can be imagined, no matter which incompetent hypocrites happen to have been in charge.

some folks still call it 'wrestling' today! not that there's anything wrong with that.

wrestling falling by the wayside is the chickens coming home to roost from the idiotic media fascination with gymnasts like olga korbut and nadia comenici. gymnastics got popular with women viewers, then the IOC saw the ratings, and so stupid 'sports' like synchronized swimming gained traction.

agree with everyone who thinks this latest move is hella stupid and that the IOC sucks big ones.

Or a sports team for that matter - how else do you explain how there are still fans of the 100+ years with no title Cubs, the 'give us more money' Marlins, or the sub-500 since pre-strike days Pirates.

Not to mention the Toronto Maple Leafs. Though I suppose I should say, the second-place Toronto Maple Leafs!

To make this even worse, the reason that anyone thought they had to cut sports is that they just added golf and a form of rugby that no one cares about, so this whole controversy is something the IOC manufactured by itself in the services of adding entirely new events that will almost certainly be unpopular and/or pointless.

Also, one of my friends looked at some of the documentation the IOC used to justify ditching wrestling and the places where wrestling scored badly were almost all things about the composition of the international governing board and other weird minor technicalities about behind-the-scenes stuff.

It's all a disgrace. FIFA, for its tremendous venality, at least doesn't set itself up as the moral guardian of all true sporting endeavors.

I'm not a huge fan of Olympic sports that have commercial appeal and an individual or country world champion on its own. I don't get what the Olympics add to that. The PGA Tour and tournaments tell me who's the best golfer. Or is Olympic Golf only Ryder Cup style team play?

I can get behind Beach Volleyball some, because that's where the highest level of volleyball athletes play, isn't it?

To make this even worse, the reason that anyone thought they had to cut sports is that they just added golf and a form of rugby that no one cares about

I disagree about the addition of sevens. Nearly any country in the world can get together a quality team with the impetus that the Olympics will provide. There's no infrastructure needed, very little development time. You've seen the Carlin Isles videos, right? Who's against that, exactly?

I can get behind Beach Volleyball some, because that's where the highest level of volleyball athletes play, isn't it?

Ha.

I really don't like the beachball. The women's indoor game is exceptional, though.

So, I don't know anything about it, but why is the IOC Western European dominated? Don't all the member nations get an equal say in things?

The IOC is a self-perpetuating body of individuals, not countries and federations, some of the places (45 out of 115) are earmarked for athletes, federation people and national olympic committee heads, 15 of each. But most are just general big-wigs.

[77] Am I wrong about beach volleyball in that way? I thought that was the only place where the money is in volleyball, and hence, where the players play after college. Or are the college athletes the best athletes? I'd love to know more if someone knows about this.

To make this even worse, the reason that anyone thought they had to cut sports is that they just added golf and a form of rugby that no one cares about

I disagree about the addition of sevens. Nearly any country in the world can get together a quality team with the impetus that the Olympics will provide. There's no infrastructure needed, very little development time. You've seen the Carlin Isles videos, right? Who's against that, exactly?

The bigger issue is the IOC's self imposed restrictions on only '25' core sports. It is arbitrary, capricious and designed to screw over sports that don't 'play'.

Most of the best beach players converted because their knees couldn't take the continuous impact of the indoor surface. The disparity in pure athletic gift is pretty obvious, too- most of the women indoor players are significantly taller. This is pretty reductive, admittedly, but the accepted wisdom is that Misty May is the best female beach player of the last decade, and she's 5'9. Yekaterina Gamova is probably the best indoor player over the same period, and she's 6'8. This is less obvious in men's volleyball, but... nobody plays men's volleyball.

but losing wrestling would be a devastating blow to the sex-appeal of the summer olympics.

And you people want to remove tennis! Anyone can get something out of watching a few minutes of Federer or Nadal or Tsonga.

Volleyball (the indoor variety I'm mostly talking about) is actually one sport that I think I'd enjoy more if the people playing it weren't quite as good as they are. Bump, set, spike is boring. Give me more frantic diving around saving your team-mates poorly played balls. Maybe a much bigger playing surface and a net 2-3 feet higher.

The Olympics are largely becoming an European affair in terms of hosting events, 2012 was in London, 2014 will be in Russia, 2016 is in Rio, but no 'special' accommodation has been made for them in terms of events, and 2020 will likely be in Spain.

[87] At least they eliminated side-out scoring. While the grind was an accomplishment of itself, nobody wanted to watch 5 hour matches.

Edit: Is there a narrow line between so many spikes being defendable and every spike being a point? I might totally watch a larger court version of badminton-volleybal, where the ball has a tail that makes it drop slower. More dramatic-looking saves?

I want to agree with the comments that the indoor volleyball athletes are crazy attractive. Holy cow those legs go on forever.

I also want to put forward the notion that if anyone ever has to die in a terrorist attack in the future, I hope it's the executive board of the IOC who were working out a lucrative graft deal with Sepp Blatter.

The Winter Olympics are pretty much going to be confined to North America and Europe. You have Nagano as the only one outside of those two regions. I guess, in theory, it could be in Chile or Argentina.

Beach volleyball requires more mobility and a more all-around game. Indoor is a lot more specialized. Top-level women's generally has more rallies. Men's is much more difficult to play defense. Both nets probably need to be raised, although it would be more helpful in women's then men's (it would really be difficult to slow the men's game down).

This isn't about commercialism or TV ratings. Globally wrestling is popular. It is popular in the ex USSR, in central Asia, in Eurasia, in the mid East, in India. And Japan put in money and time into building up women's wrestling, which is why it is the superpower in women's wrestling, which is why all the all time greats in women's wrestling are Japanese,It is were commercialsim or TV ratings that were the issue, modern pentathlon would be the first to go, and would have been dumped long ago. Followed by sailing and equestrianism.

Badminton is there because it is actually pretty damn popular in East Asia, especially China, and Indonesia, 2 countries with obviously very large populations. Furthermore, an Olympic gold is the pinnacle for individual play in badminton; the traditionally most important competitions in badminton, men and women, are the Thomas & Uber cup, which are both team competions. So it makes sense from that standpoint. It isn't a case of the top players not showing up, as in soccer or baseball. There is little chance of badminton getting kicked out, and little justification for kicking it out.

Field hockey used to be very popular India and Pakistan, less so now, due (partially) to misadministration by governning bodies. However, it probably has got enough of a globally diverse support, especially in western Europe, that it won't get kicked out.

Also, weightlifters are probably the most heavily tested group of athletes in any sport. And actually they aren't all that muscular. They cfan't be, given the nature of the weightclasses. Except for the superheavies, any additional non-functional muscle, any additional muscle that doesn't contribute to getting the weight overhead is a liability. For example, big biceps are a liability. Big pecs, also. Go look at for example some of the male Iranian lifters from the 85, 94, 105 kg classes, medalists at the Olympics, world championships. See for examle, Kianoush Rostami, 84 kgs, or Saeid Mohammadpoour Karkaragh, 94 kgs. On a side note, Saeid is one of my favourite lifters: on stage, he has the demeanour of a serious little kid. They look no more muscular than the typical non-endurance athlete. Certainly no more muscular than the typical elite sprinter (which isn't that surprising: nowadays elite sprinters often do some of the same exercises than weightliters do)

Men's soccer, is aside from modern pentathlon, the sport that most needs to be kicked out, given that baseball is already out. Not only do the best players not show up, the existing structure, under 23 with 3 overaged players, is not used in soccer at all,. Outside of the Olympics, and Olympic qualifying, there is no under 23 competition in soccer. That is an age group that isn't used at all. And this is deliberate, by FIFA. FIFA doesn't want the Olympic soccer competition to ever challenge any of its own competitions for popularity.

Beach volleyball requires more mobility and a more all-around game. Indoor is a lot more specialized. Top-level women's generally has more rallies. Men's is much more difficult to play defense. Both nets probably need to be raised, although it would be more helpful in women's then men's (it would really be difficult to slow the men's game down).

i like watching women's beach volleyball for the obvious shallow reasons, and i enjoyed some of the women's indoor, and then i happened to catch the men to give them a fair shake of my viewing time and was frankly shocked to see how awesome they were as athletes.

The Winter Olympics are pretty much going to be confined to North America and Europe. You have Nagano as the only one outside of those two regions. I guess, in theory, it could be in Chile or Argentina.