I clean my chain thoroughly using interdental toothbrushes. My wive
found a brand at Costco that is more rigid than the usual ones so the
job goes faster now. First used for my teeth, then later some day for
a chain. Afterwards scrubbing with an old regular toothbrush,
followed
by a good wipe-down with Kleenex. Once the chain is really shiny I
apply White Lightning Epic Ride. If you shake the bottle well the
waxy
stuff in it dissolves and thus gets onto the chain as well. I use a
Q-Tip to dab it onlto the links, then gently wipe off any excess with
a Kleenex.

That way a road bike chain can run 150-250mi between cleanings
depending on whether I ride more roads or more bike paths. Gets
dirtier on roads. 40-50mi on the MTB, mostly on dirt trails. The
upside is that this method does not require me to take the chain off
the bike which I would really dread.

OMG, is anyone really spending that much time on chain maintenance?!

Get yourself a Park chain cleaner (or some other brand).
Fill it with kerosene and run the chain through it. Repeat with clean
solvent until the chain runs clean.

Unless the chain is in the solvent, and moving, you won't get it clean
on the inside.

When it's clean, lubricate it with a foaming chain lube.

So how long does that process take? And I mean with clean-up including
the cleaning of the tools used. For most of those of us who are
married clean-up is necessary, we can just leave the stuff sitting on
some bench.

The bike is already on the stand for washing.

Last time I washed my road bike was ... ahm ... nineteen-sumpthin. The
MTB doesn't get washed either, it just wouldn't make sense.

The problems you have with equipment failure start to make sense...

The BB would not have failed if I had hit it with the pressure washer
after every ride. Yeah, right.

I believe he uses a garden hose and not a 5000psi pressure washer. Ever watched the pros clean bikes (road and MTB)? Hose, suds, hose, etc., etc. Garden hoses are SOP. If your BB seals can't hack that, you need a different BB.
... I have a pan in my shed
with a bottle of degreaser (not kerosene but something biodegradable)
and the Park chain cleaner in the pan. Takes a few minutes to fill up
the tool and run the chain through it. The pan catches the slosh. I
don't usually change the degreaser. A couple minutes in the chain
cleaner works well enough for me. Hose out everything and let it dry
while the bike is drying. Certainly takes less time than what you
describe with the toothbrushes.

Well, yeah, if you just put the bath, the pan and so on back on the
shelf as is. Not gonna happen here.

You missed the part about hose everything down and let it dry with the
bike. Cleanup doesn't take any time.

Hose down the bath container? That would get you into trouble with
environmental watchdogs some day.

He said it was biodegradable.

Just say "I don't wash my bikes" and don't try to make it impossible. People do it all the time -- even married people and city folk.

For those interested in this, after my last inquiry about chain lubing,
I decided to wax my chain by immersing it in a hot mixture of solid and
liquid paraffin (with a ratio of 50% of paraffin oil).

After about 600 km, including some significant rain,, must say it works
pretty well. My chain still runs smoothly, and is almost perfectly
clean. When needed, I can simply wipe it with some paper towel. I do not
know yet when I will have to wax it again, but it seems to hold pretty
well.

--
Tanguy

Using chain wax sounds great, but what about the old-fashioned Boeshield T-9? It's supposed to be waterproof.

I clean my chain thoroughly using interdental toothbrushes. My wive
found a brand at Costco that is more rigid than the usual ones so
the
job goes faster now. First used for my teeth, then later some day
for
a chain. Afterwards scrubbing with an old regular toothbrush,
followed
by a good wipe-down with Kleenex. Once the chain is really shiny I
apply White Lightning Epic Ride. If you shake the bottle well the
waxy
stuff in it dissolves and thus gets onto the chain as well. I use a
Q-Tip to dab it onlto the links, then gently wipe off any excess
with
a Kleenex.

That way a road bike chain can run 150-250mi between cleanings
depending on whether I ride more roads or more bike paths. Gets
dirtier on roads. 40-50mi on the MTB, mostly on dirt trails. The
upside is that this method does not require me to take the chain off
the bike which I would really dread.

OMG, is anyone really spending that much time on chain maintenance?!

Get yourself a Park chain cleaner (or some other brand).
Fill it with kerosene and run the chain through it. Repeat with clean
solvent until the chain runs clean.

Unless the chain is in the solvent, and moving, you won't get it
clean
on the inside.

When it's clean, lubricate it with a foaming chain lube.

So how long does that process take? And I mean with clean-up including
the cleaning of the tools used. For most of those of us who are
married clean-up is necessary, we can just leave the stuff sitting on
some bench.

The bike is already on the stand for washing.

Last time I washed my road bike was ... ahm ... nineteen-sumpthin. The
MTB doesn't get washed either, it just wouldn't make sense.

The problems you have with equipment failure start to make sense...

The BB would not have failed if I had hit it with the pressure washer
after every ride. Yeah, right.

WTF are you talking about? I don't wash my bike with a pressure washer
and I don't wash my bike after every ride.

I'm saying if you don't take care of your equipment and you seem to
complain more than anyone of your equipment not lasting.
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* ... I have a pan in my shed
with a bottle of degreaser (not kerosene but something biodegradable)
and the Park chain cleaner in the pan.Â* Takes a few minutes to fill up
the tool and run the chain through it.Â* The pan catches the slosh. I
don't usually change the degreaser.Â* A couple minutes in the chain
cleaner works well enough for me.Â* Hose out everything and let it dry
while the bike is drying.Â* Certainly takes less time than what you
describe with the toothbrushes.

Well, yeah, if you just put the bath, the pan and so on back on the
shelf as is. Not gonna happen here.

You missed the part about hose everything down and let it dry with the
bike.Â* Cleanup doesn't take any time.

Hose down the bath container? That would get you into trouble with
environmental watchdogs some day.

What bath? Comprends-tu biodegradeable?
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* ... Not that I care much how you clean your
chain.Â* Just answering your question.

Above all, avoid hot wax.

http://nordicgroup.us/chain/

I know some people who boil their chains in wax and reported good
results but it's a major chore. Such reports also have to be taken
with a grain of salt because not everyone rides on pristine asphalt.
Some of us ride singletrack where the front wheel generates a plume of
dust and the chain is right in the middle of that.

I think James uses wax and I doubt that he rides only on pristine
asphalt.Â* Why do you care what other people do to clean their chains?

I clean my chain thoroughly using interdental toothbrushes. My wive
found a brand at Costco that is more rigid than the usual ones so the
job goes faster now. First used for my teeth, then later some day for
a chain. Afterwards scrubbing with an old regular toothbrush,
followed
by a good wipe-down with Kleenex. Once the chain is really shiny I
apply White Lightning Epic Ride. If you shake the bottle well the
waxy
stuff in it dissolves and thus gets onto the chain as well. I use a
Q-Tip to dab it onlto the links, then gently wipe off any excess with
a Kleenex.

That way a road bike chain can run 150-250mi between cleanings
depending on whether I ride more roads or more bike paths. Gets
dirtier on roads. 40-50mi on the MTB, mostly on dirt trails. The
upside is that this method does not require me to take the chain off
the bike which I would really dread.

OMG, is anyone really spending that much time on chain maintenance?!

Get yourself a Park chain cleaner (or some other brand).
Fill it with kerosene and run the chain through it. Repeat with clean
solvent until the chain runs clean.

Unless the chain is in the solvent, and moving, you won't get it clean
on the inside.

When it's clean, lubricate it with a foaming chain lube.

So how long does that process take? And I mean with clean-up including
the cleaning of the tools used. For most of those of us who are
married clean-up is necessary, we can just leave the stuff sitting on
some bench.

The bike is already on the stand for washing.

Last time I washed my road bike was ... ahm ... nineteen-sumpthin. The
MTB doesn't get washed either, it just wouldn't make sense.

The problems you have with equipment failure start to make sense...

The BB would not have failed if I had hit it with the pressure washer
after every ride. Yeah, right.

I believe he uses a garden hose and not a 5000psi pressure washer. Ever watched the pros clean bikes (road and MTB)? Hose, suds, hose, etc., etc. Garden hoses are SOP. If your BB seals can't hack that, you need a different BB.

I didn't say anything about BBs. Just that most people seem to take
better care of their equipment and have less complaints. Maybe there's
some correlation...

... I have a pan in my shed
with a bottle of degreaser (not kerosene but something biodegradable)
and the Park chain cleaner in the pan. Takes a few minutes to fill up
the tool and run the chain through it. The pan catches the slosh. I
don't usually change the degreaser. A couple minutes in the chain
cleaner works well enough for me. Hose out everything and let it dry
while the bike is drying. Certainly takes less time than what you
describe with the toothbrushes.

Well, yeah, if you just put the bath, the pan and so on back on the
shelf as is. Not gonna happen here.

You missed the part about hose everything down and let it dry with the
bike. Cleanup doesn't take any time.

Hose down the bath container? That would get you into trouble with
environmental watchdogs some day.

He said it was biodegradable.

He's just arguing to be arguing I think.
Just say "I don't wash my bikes" and don't try to make it impossible. People do it all the time -- even married people and city folk.

A guy at the ride yesterday wanted to stop for a beer after. I said I
had to get home and cut the grass. He said him too but if he was late
his wife would get ****ed and do it herself. I can't even imagine that
concept. lol.

But having a beer at home while hosing down the bike is sort of a nice
way to relax IMO.

... She was up at like 2:00 AM this morning going through
all my buckets in the garage . . . totally ****ed off at
the condition of some of my bike cleaning brushes. So I
asked her about the dust under the refrigerator . . .
"have you seen that . . . have you? How could any
self-respecting wife allow that disgusting accumulation?
And your hair in the drain! It's like stringy snot! I
want a divorce!"

When making bacon and eggs this morning I mentioned a li'l
grease spot on the range from yesterday. When I came home
late from a fun MTB ride and she still made a very nice
dinner. That didn't go over very well :-)

Most women are neat freaks while most men would become
real slobs if they weren't married to them.

Have you seen Lou's garage? You could do surgery on the
floor without fear of infection.

Is this the guy who ride a bike with only a front brake?

My wife has been very patient with the mess I made in the
family room downstairs. I've been watching movies and doing
heavy bike maintenance for the fleet which doubled when my
son moved in after his injury.

I'd be hearing about that every day. Though she has accepted
that I ride on dirt trails a lot and that there is a fair
amount of "trail debris" under the MTB in the garage. As long
as none of it moves on its own.

I just got back from Universal where I bought a liter of
Shimano mineral oil for the hydraulic brakes. It was $4 more
than buying 50ml from Bike Gallery. Incroyable -- $17.99 for
50ml. Even from Western, it's $12.75 for 50ml. You can get
1,000ml for anywhere from $18-22 low street price. I didn't
even bother price matching at Universal and paid $22. I'll
never use all that mineral oil, but I couldn't bear spending
so much for 50ml. Maybe I'll sell the left overs on the disk
brake black market.

Sounds like the rip-off with brake pads. The LBS wants $16 for
a pair of cheap resin pads while I buy nice ceramic-based ones
for around $2/pair from China, in bulk. Well, as long as there
is no brake pad tariff. The pads at the LBS are most likely
also made in China, if not at the same factory.

An oil change on a Rohloff hub would cost you about the same as
an oil change on a car:

There must be huge profit margins on this stuff and of course they all
try to make you captive by requiring to buy at the company
store or the warranty is toast.

By the way, I tried to buy $9 worth of hydraulic mineral oil
made by Finish Line, and the guys at Bike Gallery (who I
really like and have been good to me), basically swatted my
hand away, saying that Shimano was the only way to go. I
think either (1) Shimano has everyone cowed, or (2) Finish
Line needs better PR. I think Shimano actually claims that
the warranty on the hydraulic discs is voided if you use
non-Shimano magical oil.

I wonder if they'd do a full forensic investigation with each
$100 warranty claim to find out which oil was used, who sold
it, whether some sort of embargo was breached and whether the
goons need to be sent out.

My brakes are simple, they use DOT3 or DOT4 like the ones in
our cars do. The quantity needs costs pennies.

Shimano made the decision to go with mineral oil for the road
discs, which was a legitimate choice, and considering the fill
volumes, it saves a lot of waste DOT fluid that absorbs water and
has to be tossed. DOT fluid is nasty on paint, etc. I can be
sloppy with mineral oil -- use it for massage, laxative, etc.,
etc. It's multipurpose.

DOT has much better performance when things get hot. Which they do
on an MTB. Water boils off if you let it. So far I didn't have to
change my fluid, just top off a wee bit. It is aggressive towards
paint but not that aggressive. Paint is the last thing I'd worry
about on my bikes.

When doing fluid jobs on the brakes one has to be careful. I never
spilled a drop. That's one of the jobs syringes where invented
for.

Scroll to the bottom. It's expensive, but it doesn't go bad -- so
that's a plus. I hate having cans or bags of stuff that you have to
throw away because they absorb water, like plaster and setting joint
compounds, cement, etc.

Quote (from your link): "An important point about the hygroscopic nature
of DOT Fluid is that by absorbing the water into the fluid it is
preventing pockets of water from forming that remain separate from the
fluid in the system. Water is heavier and settles to the lowest point
in the system, such as the caliper. This means that while the boiling
point of the mineral oil remains high, the boiling point of the system
is now that of water, only 100C/212F".

That where the problem is. The caliper is where things get hot.

I use a syringe, but I do get drips and drabs from the fill port or
the lever port. Not much. You just wipe it off.

Water in DOT boils out. That's what happens in the open systems on motor
vehicles. Unfortunately bikes don't have those but if you were truly
concerned about having to recycle that miniscule quantity you could just
boil it off.

Anyhow, I would not mind a Shimano brake system because I don't ride
that hard (anymore). However, having seen a guy in front of me lose his
front brake on a long downhill was a sobering lesson.

I clean my chain thoroughly using interdental
toothbrushes. My wive found a brand at Costco that is
more rigid than the usual ones so the job goes faster
now. First used for my teeth, then later some day for a
chain. Afterwards scrubbing with an old regular
toothbrush, followed by a good wipe-down with Kleenex.
Once the chain is really shiny I apply White Lightning
Epic Ride. If you shake the bottle well the waxy stuff
in it dissolves and thus gets onto the chain as well. I
use a Q-Tip to dab it onlto the links, then gently wipe
off any excess with a Kleenex.

That way a road bike chain can run 150-250mi between
cleanings depending on whether I ride more roads or
more bike paths. Gets dirtier on roads. 40-50mi on the
MTB, mostly on dirt trails. The upside is that this
method does not require me to take the chain off the
bike which I would really dread.

OMG, is anyone really spending that much time on chain
maintenance?!

Get yourself a Park chain cleaner (or some other brand).
Fill it with kerosene and run the chain through it.
Repeat with clean solvent until the chain runs clean.

Unless the chain is in the solvent, and moving, you won't
get it clean on the inside.

When it's clean, lubricate it with a foaming chain lube.

So how long does that process take? And I mean with
clean-up including the cleaning of the tools used. For most
of those of us who are married clean-up is necessary, we
can just leave the stuff sitting on some bench.

The bike is already on the stand for washing.

Last time I washed my road bike was ... ahm ...
nineteen-sumpthin. The MTB doesn't get washed either, it just
wouldn't make sense.

The problems you have with equipment failure start to make
sense...

The BB would not have failed if I had hit it with the pressure
washer after every ride. Yeah, right.

I believe he uses a garden hose and not a 5000psi pressure washer.
Ever watched the pros clean bikes (road and MTB)? Hose, suds, hose,
etc., etc. Garden hoses are SOP. If your BB seals can't hack that,
you need a different BB.

I have seen high-pend MTB where they did not (!) provide a weep hole
below the BB. Couldn't believe it at first.

... I have a pan in my shed with a bottle of degreaser (not
kerosene but something biodegradable) and the Park chain
cleaner in the pan. Takes a few minutes to fill up the tool
and run the chain through it. The pan catches the slosh. I
don't usually change the degreaser. A couple minutes in the
chain cleaner works well enough for me. Hose out everything
and let it dry while the bike is drying. Certainly takes
less time than what you describe with the toothbrushes.

Well, yeah, if you just put the bath, the pan and so on back on
the shelf as is. Not gonna happen here.

You missed the part about hose everything down and let it dry
with the bike. Cleanup doesn't take any time.

Hose down the bath container? That would get you into trouble with
environmental watchdogs some day.

He said it was biodegradable.

I wonder what the Federales would have to say about that.

Just say "I don't wash my bikes" and don't try to make it impossible.
People do it all the time -- even married people and city folk.

I never said that. I just indicated that I find washing an MTB not to be
a very productive task. 10mi later it's dirty again so what is the point
of washing it?

I clean my chain thoroughly using interdental toothbrushes. My wive
found a brand at Costco that is more rigid than the usual ones
so the
job goes faster now. First used for my teeth, then later some
day for
a chain. Afterwards scrubbing with an old regular toothbrush,
followed
by a good wipe-down with Kleenex. Once the chain is really shiny I
apply White Lightning Epic Ride. If you shake the bottle well the
waxy
stuff in it dissolves and thus gets onto the chain as well. I use a
Q-Tip to dab it onlto the links, then gently wipe off any excess
with
a Kleenex.

That way a road bike chain can run 150-250mi between cleanings
depending on whether I ride more roads or more bike paths. Gets
dirtier on roads. 40-50mi on the MTB, mostly on dirt trails. The
upside is that this method does not require me to take the chain
off
the bike which I would really dread.

OMG, is anyone really spending that much time on chain maintenance?!

Get yourself a Park chain cleaner (or some other brand).
Fill it with kerosene and run the chain through it. Repeat with
clean
solvent until the chain runs clean.

Unless the chain is in the solvent, and moving, you won't get it
clean
on the inside.

When it's clean, lubricate it with a foaming chain lube.

So how long does that process take? And I mean with clean-up
including
the cleaning of the tools used. For most of those of us who are
married clean-up is necessary, we can just leave the stuff sitting on
some bench.

The bike is already on the stand for washing.

Last time I washed my road bike was ... ahm ... nineteen-sumpthin. The
MTB doesn't get washed either, it just wouldn't make sense.

The problems you have with equipment failure start to make sense...

The BB would not have failed if I had hit it with the pressure washer
after every ride. Yeah, right.

WTF are you talking about? I don't wash my bike with a pressure washer
and I don't wash my bike after every ride.

I'm saying if you don't take care of your equipment and you seem to
complain more than anyone of your equipment not lasting.

Maybe you haven't noticed yet but I meticulously clean the chain and
everything in the drive train every 50mi on the MTB and about every
200mi on the road bike. Afterwards there is a substantial amount of oily
debris in the table on which the bikes standsi during this procedure.
This debris isn't chucked into the landscape but properly disposed of
via broom and trash can.

Whether there are mud spatters under the downtube has no bearing
whatsoever on the longevity of bike components.

... I have a pan in my shed
with a bottle of degreaser (not kerosene but something biodegradable)
and the Park chain cleaner in the pan. Takes a few minutes to fill up
the tool and run the chain through it. The pan catches the slosh. I
don't usually change the degreaser. A couple minutes in the chain
cleaner works well enough for me. Hose out everything and let it dry
while the bike is drying. Certainly takes less time than what you
describe with the toothbrushes.

Well, yeah, if you just put the bath, the pan and so on back on the
shelf as is. Not gonna happen here.

You missed the part about hose everything down and let it dry with the
bike. Cleanup doesn't take any time.

Hose down the bath container? That would get you into trouble with
environmental watchdogs some day.

What bath? Comprends-tu biodegradeable?

I do not consider the black oily gunk coming off my chain, sprockets,
rollers and chain rings to be good for the environment.

I clean my chain thoroughly using interdental toothbrushes. My
wive
found a brand at Costco that is more rigid than the usual ones
so the
job goes faster now. First used for my teeth, then later some
day for
a chain. Afterwards scrubbing with an old regular toothbrush,
followed
by a good wipe-down with Kleenex. Once the chain is really shiny I
apply White Lightning Epic Ride. If you shake the bottle well the
waxy
stuff in it dissolves and thus gets onto the chain as well. I
use a
Q-Tip to dab it onlto the links, then gently wipe off any excess
with
a Kleenex.

That way a road bike chain can run 150-250mi between cleanings
depending on whether I ride more roads or more bike paths. Gets
dirtier on roads. 40-50mi on the MTB, mostly on dirt trails. The
upside is that this method does not require me to take the chain
off
the bike which I would really dread.

OMG, is anyone really spending that much time on chain
maintenance?!

Get yourself a Park chain cleaner (or some other brand).
Fill it with kerosene and run the chain through it. Repeat with
clean
solvent until the chain runs clean.

Unless the chain is in the solvent, and moving, you won't get it
clean
on the inside.

When it's clean, lubricate it with a foaming chain lube.

So how long does that process take? And I mean with clean-up
including
the cleaning of the tools used. For most of those of us who are
married clean-up is necessary, we can just leave the stuff
sitting on
some bench.

The bike is already on the stand for washing.

Last time I washed my road bike was ... ahm ... nineteen-sumpthin. The
MTB doesn't get washed either, it just wouldn't make sense.

The problems you have with equipment failure start to make sense...

The BB would not have failed if I had hit it with the pressure washer
after every ride. Yeah, right.

WTF are you talking about?Â* I don't wash my bike with a pressure washer
and I don't wash my bike after every ride.

I'm saying if you don't take care of your equipment and you seem to
complain more than anyone of your equipment not lasting.

Maybe you haven't noticed yet but I meticulously clean the chain and
everything in the drive train every 50mi on the MTB and about every
200mi on the road bike. Afterwards there is a substantial amount of oily
debris in the table on which the bikes standsi during this procedure.
This debris isn't chucked into the landscape but properly disposed of
via broom and trash can.

Properly disposed of how? The local landfill? You do understand that
there are biodegradable options for chain oil right?
Whether there are mud spatters under the downtube has no bearing
whatsoever on the longevity of bike components.

So after years ( 18 I think you said) of not washing your bike there is
only some mud under the down tube? Amazing.

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* ... I have a pan in my shed
with a bottle of degreaser (not kerosene but something biodegradable)
and the Park chain cleaner in the pan.Â* Takes a few minutes to
fill up
the tool and run the chain through it.Â* The pan catches the slosh. I
don't usually change the degreaser.Â* A couple minutes in the chain
cleaner works well enough for me.Â* Hose out everything and let it dry
while the bike is drying.Â* Certainly takes less time than what you
describe with the toothbrushes.

Well, yeah, if you just put the bath, the pan and so on back on the
shelf as is. Not gonna happen here.

You missed the part about hose everything down and let it dry with the
bike.Â* Cleanup doesn't take any time.

Hose down the bath container? That would get you into trouble with
environmental watchdogs some day.

What bath?Â* Comprends-tu biodegradeable?

I do not consider the black oily gunk coming off my chain, sprockets,
rollers and chain rings to be good for the environment.

Maybe you should consider the possibility that not everyone has black
oily gunk on their drive train. What do you use for the chain? Motor oil?

:Water in DOT boils out. That's what happens in the open systems on motor
:vehicles. Unfortunately bikes don't have those but if you were truly

What motor vehicle has a brake system open to atmosphere? It ain't
the fifties, man. They're sealed systems. Have been for decades.

Brake fluid
in motor vehicle systems is not recirculated much, and the the fluid
that's in the calipers tends to stay in the calipers. It is not at
all unusual to discover a caliper is full of water, while the fluid at
the master cylinder is normal.