I think it's just plain stupid that some folks think a manufacturer should spend thousands of dollars making free test sets in that case, but it's the internet... Reasonable reactions have no place here

err, they should send what ever it takes to make sure the product works, and that should be their money not money they have taken from customers thinking they are buying a finished product. The only stupid thing is there are people out there who think the way they are doing business is the normal and OK

I don't know how the 'rules' apply to new parts in the US, but I'm sure ciamillo will have taken all necessary precautions

There are no 'rules' within the U.S.The CPSC gets involved if failures / injuries begin to pile up.

I was looking into the 'rules' regarding carbon rims and bike kit in general. Specifically the kit that's made exclusively in the U.S. and not outsourced to Asia.And quickly discovered that the U.S. Govt. has no hand in establishing guidelines. Engineering specs are established in house, and that's it.

Now for the EU, there are regs and guidelines from everything from pasta to diapers to carbon bike bits.The EU standard for bike components is (CEN EN14781).And it's interesting that many Asian manufacturers adhere to this EU standard and certification process because so much of their product is sold in the EU. Of course many will argue that those certs. are fraudulent. I have no comment on their authenticity, I have no way to know.

And for the U.S. based companies that are outsourcing to Asia and are selling their product worldwide, they also will have the EU certification.

This really does make Ciamillo look like a bunch of cowboys . We know that there brakes are really cool and have a lot of fans but this is a big PR cock up . Like I said before .If you are paying out a large wad of dosh then you want a finished item. If they want guinea pigs to test there product, which is what this is, then they should be asking a few of us to try these cranks and see how they work out and not charge us a thing.No one should be paying for an untested and unproven item . This is not the way to do things and I feel that maybe Ciamillo are taking advantage of us ww . Ciamillo ,throw a few cranks our way to test and if they are as good as they claim to be then you will have the best reviews from the people who you target and then they will sell .

Spot on comments. I just don't get this 'rush to market mentality'. I can understand Z G not wanting to send them to guys like Caley Fretz at V.News.com. Doing so might risk some bad rep from a guy writing for a mag. (but who knows, maybe Caley was the First on their list). Caley's here on W.W.

Hay Caley.............are you sportin a set of these cranks on your ride?

But rather than take people's cash, simply make a few sets, pass them around to the guys / gals wrenching at their LBS, coffee shop, club etc. and let those people put some miles on them. That seems harmless enuf. And since they would be locals, they might even be able to get some signed waivers. (not that a waiver protects a co.)

Your comment about them looking like a bunch of cowboys was very tame and well mannered. I'm sure there are those that could think of more sever labels.

I must be missing something? Wasn't it just a few months ago that posters were buying brakes from these people and not receiving them, forcing them to file CC claims? And sending their brakes in for spring replacements and not having them returned until publicly shaming Ciamillo here on the forum? At best this company is irresponsible. And a good argument could be made for them being common grifters.

Consumers are an odd lot indeed.

This guy; http://hippietechsuspension.com/HTS/HOME.html has been in business for quite some time. He has been dishing out horrible customer service for years. Search reviews about his service. It's bad, really bad.I'm not making second hand reports about him. I 'lived it'. I didn't do my due diligence and I paid the price for my mistake.He is a terrible business person, yet he has survived some how. Maybe it's the slick web site.

I went in on the pre-order around Oct 10. As 6 weeks came and went and the previous thread went the way this one is going, w/ no info or updates being provided (other than some bits and pieces from distributors and other "insiders"), I started getting nervous (and if you've read the previous threads on ZG and their issues, you know).

Kept getting promises of updates and a blog and they never materialized. The design change got me thinking, now these haven't been tested at all. I emailed Ted and asked for a refund, I got an email asking me to call him. I responded I'd rather not as I'd like to keep a paper trail. At that point I called the customer service dept of my credit card and filed a dispute. Then I received an email from Ted asking me to cancel the dispute so he could have a clean record w/ Paypal. He said once I dropped the dispute he'd refund my money. I responded explaining that it had nothing to do with paypal and once the refund was issued the bank would drop the dispute. Ted also mentioned he needed a day to "move or transfer money between accounts".

A few days later I contacted Ted and told him I had refrained from posting on the forums in hopes of getting the refund and dropping the dispute. On Dec 11, Ted responded he'd be able to do the refund on Friday (Dec 14th). I waited until Monday and when nothing had changed in sent in my paperwork to back up the dispute. So much for that offer of an "immediate refund" if there were any delays or changes on the receipt for the deposit.

I also had communication with someone else who asked to keep it private that confirmed what others are speculating here (deposits were "seed" money to fund this).

I have nothing against Ted, other than he provided a bogus guarantee in writing. I hope this project works out and this new design takes things in a new direction, but I'm not going to pay to be the guineau pig here and no, you can't hold my deposit and string me along w/ empty promises of a refund.

I think the ww mods should have a rethink about letting Ciamillo post on here again . The way they have targeted ww by coming on to this sight and trying to take advantage of us is appalling . Ciamillo should refund all money and issue an apology .

Alot of users are upset with Ciamillo and the launch of the Zero Gravity Crank V2, lets just wait and see what the Product will be like in usage, and real life test, i'm still waiting for a picture with one on a Bike to see what it will look like.

i'm in market to buy a new crank for my Vamoots RSL, to replace the Cannondale Hollowgram Sl that i have, and my choise list are:The colour i'm looking is for an all black Crank with black ChainRings (like a Sottovoce Chris King):

1 - EE Crank - still waiting on information from Pacenti, about the changes to design and colours and a release information about the Stiffness test/real life tests.

2 - Zero Gravity Crank V2 - still waiting on information from Ted or other people related to this project, about the Stiffness test/real life tests. the price seems way too expensive here in Europe 990€, for that price you can buy n.º 3 complete with Praxis Chainring, and the n.º 4 with no rings.

3 - THM M3 Clavicula - I think is an Upgrade on Hollow, for the bling point vew, since the Hollowgram, is stiffer, the rest is equal, spiders, chainrings choises... etc.

4 - THM Clavicula - I think is an Upgrade on Hollow, for the bling point vew, since the Hollowgram, is stiffer.

5 - Hollowgram SL2 - more of the same that i already have, even with spiderring (way to expensive for a Item of wear) - so will not be in my list.

Don't want to take this thread OT, so quick answer to the post above, Clavicula and M3 are both stunning cranksets. I've not ridden either but have had chance to have a close look at both and if I had the money, either would put a smile on my face!

@artray I really don't like it when people jump the gun. I'm not defending Ciamillo in any way nor am I going to start 'bashing' them. Before this thread starts getting out of hand lets wait and see if there will be any feedback from Ciamillo. Admittedly it doesn't look good, but lets have a little patience.

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