Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, good to know that apparently nobody else in the world except the top 4 count. You know what, let's just put the top 4 in the semis every time and disregard all other players on tour since they would just be "demonstration matches" otherwise. And you question me if I have played tennis :lol:

The funny thing is that you are sticking by your original statement which makes no sense, while you could have easily said you were just being tongue in cheek or funny since all I called it was "random" in a humorous way. Why you are trying to debate the validity of that statement is beyond me. Whatever, it's my last post on this. Have a good day.

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The point I am making is that this tournament is a waste of space. If we are going to have something great here in the uk then have it when half of the top players are not worn out and in a retiring mode. If I had paid to watch this tournament then I would want to see the same performance as I have seen during other great matches and slams. That is what is expected and anticipated from all tennis fans. Not what we have seen this last week.

The point I am making is that this tournament is a waste of space. If we are going to have something great here in the uk then have it when half of the top players are not worn out and in a retiring mode. If I had paid to watch this tournament then I would want to see the same performance as I have seen during other great matches and slams. That is what is expected and anticipated from all tennis fans. Not what we have seen this last week.

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the thought of having a year end championship in the middle of the season has never crossed my mind before.. maybe thats cause its stupid

its not the tournaments fault that 3 of todays top 4 players cant play tennis without crippling themselves after 3/4 of the season

The point I am making is that this tournament is a waste of space. If we are going to have something great here in the uk then have it when half of the top players are not worn out and in a retiring mode. If I had paid to watch this tournament then I would want to see the same performance as I have seen during other great matches and slams. That is what is expected and anticipated from all tennis fans. Not what we have seen this last week.

The point I making is that this tournament is a waste of space. If we are going to have something great here in the uk then have it when half of the top players are not worn out and in a retiring mode. If I had paid to watch this tournament then I would want to see the same performance as I have seen during other great matches and slams. That is what is expected and anticipated from all tennis fans. Not what we have seen this last week.

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I never saw anyone objecting to the scheduling of the WTFs until it moved to London. Will you just shut the hell up, why was no one pointing this out when it was taking place in Shanghai. Nadal had a long break prior to this, Djokovic had a week break and said his serving was 100% prior to his first match. Djokovic was not burned out, he was making a ton of UE's, but he was still covering the court like a monster. It's his offensive game that he can't get a hold of, has nothing to do with physical burnout, it's mental. Part of being a good tennis player is the ability to endure the season even when playing a lot. Stop trying to make excuses for any player, Ferrer's playing style is also demanding, I didn't see him burned out, and he's been playing a lot this year. It is also Nadal's fault that he wasn't being aggressive enough, it is Djokovic's fault that he couldn't keep his offense from falling apart. I will say this again, none of the players have an excuse for being physically incapable of playing, except maybe Murray since he genuinely seemed off physically rather than being mentally absent.

Irrespective of what the rankings say, Murray has had the better year this year as compared to Federer. Just look at the slam results and it becomes obvious. Pity that the rankings don't show it.

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murray collected 360 more points in slams than fed did which is a very minor difference. especially considering even tho murray made 1 final +3 semis he was never even close to actually winning any of them.
even tho fed did marginally "worse" alltogether he was alot closer to win the FO or USO than murray was in any of th 4.

I saw the match, thanks. I am not saying Federer would not have beaten them, had they played, my point is, that would have been a lot more interesting than watching Federer against Ferrer and either Tsonga/Berdych.

Taking nothing away from Federer, he did what he had to, and will most likely win it again tomorrow.

I just don't like this back door entry to the top. I would have hoped we had Murray, Djokovic and Nadal to challenge Federer.

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as has been said, its not like they didnt try or didnt have the opportunity to be ready for the tournament. nadal took his longest preparational break ever prior to this event. djokovic pulled out of his last 2 tournaments to cure his shoulder issues to be ready for the tournament.

in the end they just didnt have the level needed to compete with fed once again. tough break, thats how it goes. so the whole thing is not to count unless everyone is in sublime form? by that approach nadals FO 08 thrashing fed in the final clearly doesnt count either since fed obviously wasnt at the top of his game and murray and djokovic were in horrendous form at that time

Winning one more match at a slam (none of which he had a chance of winning) does not constitute a better year, and it is no one but Murray's fault that he's in such bad condition for the 5th largest event of the year. You are either delusional or a troll. Maybe both.

Murray played himself to death to try and steal the small prize of outranking Federer but played the price for trying to force his ranking and has failed to gain ground on a 30 year old father of twins. I suppose he hoped that in Federer's decline he could steal a small victory by going ahead of him, but just like his injury assisted 2 week spell ahead of Nadal at number 2, it's ended all too soon and he'll have to hope Federer further drops off next year.

Murray has won one more match in slams this year and 2 masters but Federer has the chance to add a far more important WTF to his 1 master, and he managed to at least win a set in the slam final he made it to. If he wins the WTF he will certainly deserve the number 3 spot over Murray.

Winning one more match at a slam (none of which he had a chance of winning) does not constitute a better year, and it is no one but Murray's fault that he's in such bad condition for the 5th largest event of the year. You are either delusional or a troll. Maybe both.

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Murray could have done better had he been fit. That is based on the results he managed to produce this year. I mean if he can be semifinalist and finalist in all slams this year, the least you could expect from him would be a semi final appearance, which obviously didn't happen. Surely you don't think Murray played his best this tournament?

So if we look at the slams, Murray is ahead of Federer, albeit slightly. How is that being delusional?

It's sad when people have to cling to one more match win as some sort of "proof" Murray did better. This is Murray's whole problem and you can see it in the people who support him too, clinging on to small victories and complaining of injustice when the big boys just get on and win. Federer has the chance to grab the biggest title after the slams which Murray can't match. "Oh he had one more match win!" big deal, he's going to actually answer the question and win a slam or at least one set in the final. Murray to be honest got lucky that Troicki choked against him at RG where as Federer had on fire Tsonga and Djokovic coming back against him.

Out of Federer and Murray, who actuallly won a set in the slam final they reached? Federer got closer to actually WINNING a slam than Murray did, and has a chance to end up with bigger titles. It's Murray who was off entering Tokyo and Thailand or whatever, you know trying to bolster his ranking with many smaller events. In the end it's backfired because Federer has reached the final of the 5th biggest tournament. Federer is ahead because - he has more points. That's how rankings work.

Why give Murray the benifit of the doubt? He's never even been to a final here, and if facing an in form Djokovic and Berdych, would have had a tough time even making the semis.

Taking nothing away from Federer, he did what he had to, and will most likely win it again tomorrow.

I just don't like this back door entry to the top. I would have hoped we had Murray, Djokovic and Nadal to challenge Federer.

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How many titles have they won because Federer wasn't at his best? Sorry if they play well and burn out late in the season then it becomes someone else's chance. In 2004-2007 Federer never had a problem with peforming from January to November.

I said Federer deserves the win. What I didn't appreciate is him going ahead in the rankings. How is that backtracking?

Murray could have done better had he been fit. That is based on the results he managed to produce this year. I mean if he can be semifinalist and finalist in all slams this year, the least you could expect from him would be a semi final appearance, which obviously didn't happen. Surely you don't think Murray played his best this tournament?

So if we look at the slams, Murray is ahead of Federer, albeit slightly. How is that being delusional?

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But Murray isn't fit and we can't overlook that when comparing years. Fitness issues have been a major characteristic of Murray's 2011 and it's why Federer deserves his #3 spot. Even at 30 years old, Roger's body is holding up better than anyone else's which allows him to play decent tennis long after other players have started to check out.

But Murray isn't fit and we can't overlook that when comparing years. Fitness issues have been a major characteristic of Murray's 2011 and it's why Federer deserves his #3 spot. Even at 30 years old, Roger's body is holding up better than anyone else's which allows him to play decent tennis long after other players have started to check out.

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Well, Federer has always been one of the fittest athletes. Also, he has a very easy game therefore the combination of this, makes him remain healthy each season. I appreciate Federer's fitness.

But that again, doesn't mean everyone is as fit as Federer. Clearly Murray isn't. From the looks of it, neither is Djokovic or Nadal.

I never saw anyone objecting to the scheduling of the WTFs until it moved to London. Will you just shut the hell up, why was no one pointing this out when it was taking place in Shanghai. Nadal had a long break prior to this, Djokovic had a week break and said his serving was 100% prior to his first match. Djokovic was not burned out, he was making a ton of UE's, but he was still covering the court like a monster. It's his offensive game that he can't get a hold of, has nothing to do with physical burnout, it's mental. Part of being a good tennis player is the ability to endure the season even when playing a lot. Stop trying to make excuses for any player, Ferrer's playing style is also demanding, I didn't see him burned out, and he's been playing a lot this year. It is also Nadal's fault that he wasn't being aggressive enough, it is Djokovic's fault that he couldn't keep his offense from falling apart. I will say this again, none of the players have an excuse for being physically incapable of playing, except maybe Murray since he genuinely seemed off physically rather than being mentally absent.

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What a load of rubbish. I don't think anyone who has really played tennis would agree with this daft statement. Ferrer was burned out today. Tennis has changed greatly and Federer's decline is testament to that fact that he could no longer compete the way he used to. And don't tell me to 'shut the hell up' if you can't chose better phraseology don't reply

Yes it was hilarious to see Murray barely beat Federer with a really bad back, I was just rolling on the floor laughing for a week

I see we share the same sense of humour, don't you just love when one player whose face is almost pale from pain struggles in a 3 hour match only to lose? Damn I could watch it all day.

You know what was even funnier? The fact that Murray already secured a place in the semi-finals but was so obsessed with beating Federer that he got owned by Davydenko in the next round 6-1 6-4 or something.

I know it is absolutely not the subject of this thread, but maybe they should skip the semis for the wtf.
Maybe it will make round matches more challenging for the players, especially those who feel tired or mentally exhausted at the end of the season.
Of course tournament organizers and tv wont agree, but I'm conviced mentally it would help the players give their best and not tank round matches...