Surely anyone could see that when Corbyn wheeled out Diane Abbott as someone who he thought might be able to do a job, the die was inexorably cast.

It's all beyond a joke and more infuriatingly, it's just a fucking waste of everyone's time and effort. I mean, I'm not even Labour but the whole thing is a farrago of almost laughable levels. The pro-Brexit press only had to go "OH LOOK AT LABOUR!" as they are now to fill the headlines.

The thing is, he was elected as leader of the party because he was believed to be a man of principle - he stuck to his beliefs - unlike the shadowy tory in disguise look of the other candidates.

Now he's always been anti-EU and he's stuck to what he believes in with following the govt line on Brexit. Cue much howling from everyone how he's useless (which he is, deep down) - but, hey, he stuck to his principles.

Yep. I think it is utterly make or break for both Labour. (and, ultimately society if UKIP win).

According to the media every bye election, local election and mayoral election has been make or break for Corbyn, and after they were won they were all won despite him rather than because of him.

It is a bit farcical really. This one will be the same, they will be saying it is neck and neck and it is a referendum on Corbyn, Labour will win easily and the media will decide that Corbyn had nothing to do with the victory.

I've pretty much had it with politics in this country, if dumb fucks want to elect Nuttal because he, a man who was vowing to dismantle the NHS 18 months ago, has "protect the NHS" on his banners they fully deserve the arse reaming they are going to get as they are made poorer and have their rights and services taken away, the counter argument is always - but what about the poor people who don't vote for this ridiculous sack of shite and lies, to which the answer is organise or die because I don't care any more.

Labour's decline in its heartlands is a major concern - but just holding onto your core seats (even if Labour were) isn't going to be enough to overturn the Tories in the key seats. And Corbyn - despite my sincere wishes- has singularly failed to show that he can do that.

His appalling handling of the Brexit fiasco has actually somehow, unbelievably, made it appear that May is more steadfast in her convictions over the EU - despite being a fervent Remain campaigner- than Corbyn, who passively shrugged his shoulders and almost hoped it would all slip idly by, so he didn't have to declare/promote his pro-Leave history. And then to put in a three line whip to force Brexit through, and claim it was the right way to get it amended, is so much bollocks it is insulting the intelligence of all Labour voters.

He needs to leave and leave quickly.

toomanyhatz wrote:In fact I'll take it a step farther and say many of my male friends are gay. Not a majority, but a higher percentage than the general demographic...

Diamond Dog wrote:Labour's decline in its heartlands is a major concern - but just holding onto your core seats (even if Labour were) isn't going to be enough to overturn the Tories in the key seats. And Corbyn - despite my sincere wishes- has singularly failed to show that he can do that.

That's because elections are won on the centre ground as I said some time ago and while I don't think Corbyn represents any sort of threat or challenge to the centre ground - in reality he is a very long way from being 'far left' - that is how he is portrayed and as you say he hasn't changed that perception.

Deebank wrote:That's because elections are won on the centre ground as I said some time ago a

It's trite bollocks though isn't it?

Some are some aren't

I don't think Trump won by firmly standing in the center ground of US politics, do you?

Well he didn't win (the popular vote).

In England I don't see anyone voting Corbyn who wouldn't have voted Labour anyway - but he may have lost many moderates. Time will tell but I don't see him benefitting from any rejection of the mainstream.

Right or wrong for many he represents a lentilmunching terrorist-hugging lefty stereotype that they won't countenance.

I think the theory was that for every centerist/blairite Labour voter the left, 2 disenfranchised, fed-up-with-politics, previous non-voters would find the Corbyn led Labour party attractive and join. Not sure how that's working out.