02:07:33skylax:@bloctoc they could easily block the protocol channels of any bitcoin related subjects. RIght now there is a bit of battle going on between bitcoin and legal institutions, if bitcoin wins, meaning it can bypass the law, then I'm pretty sure a lot of other things in society will probably be used to bypass the law in the same manner.

02:10:08BingoBoingo:skylax: I think you are mistaken. Bitcoin is now the law and BitBet the court.

02:12:41bloctoc:skylax you mean like China blocks CNN? There's no battle right now, at most there's fincen bragging that they found a way to fit bitcoin into their own status quo. I really suspect bureaucrats everywhere don't give a shit except that reporters only want to talk about bitcoin.

02:13:15BingoBoingo:benkay: Sycophants aren't a bad thing, either to have or to be. I will admit though that mircea_popescu has made some poor decisions like Market Making X.idiff.

02:36:14bloctoc:skylax - A bunch of regulatory functions will be better served by crypto. Monetary policy is the most obvious, but there will be other "industries" that will be made redundant. There will be no more credit checks unless you actually want a loan. SEC no longer needed except for enforcement. Title insurance gone. Toothpaste still around.

02:38:42bloctoc:I'm pretty excited about the functionality suggested by mastercoin, ripple, and colored coins. I get that all those are not solid technically yet, but the direction is clearly laid out for those who care to believe.

03:00:29skylax:bloctoc: I suppose the efficiency of crypto will erase many of worthless industries, but crowdsource law is pretty complex and unreliable so some kind of institution will still be present, if somehow someone made crowdsourced law work, then this method would be used in all legal fields such as commercial law and criminal law etc. Also to mention crypto if heavily technology dependent, if the power goes out, we go back to cave

03:28:43bloctoc:…if the power goes out, we go back to cave - yes crypto or no crypto that's true. Same argument for breaking SHA256. As far as crowdsource law it will be nice to see some template corporations that get set up by copy/paste instead of paying a lawyer $10K to copy/paste. For what it's worth, I do think the smart contracts will do that for us.

04:48:51mircea_popescu:nubbins` when i was a mobster i didn't wanna go live with all the other mobsters. generally this seems to be a common trend, too, people don't seem to go "a shit, you know what'd be cool ? let's move upstate. the city's a toilet!"

05:48:52xoinfinityox:i gotcha, they can get out in front of the actual chain

05:50:51mircea_popescu:we're roughly past the point where this is feasible, which is one of the major things tghat changed since back in spring.

05:51:48monolithik:network consolidation is definitely a problem. Best case scenario IMO: ASIC development hits the point where an increase in ghash/watt would be reducible to a general improvement in human knowledge of semiconductors. At that point bitcoin ASICs will become commoditized like Intel CPUs, and the distribution of hashpower would settle to some equilibrium where power was not too widely concentrated

05:52:44mircea_popescu:monolithik i tell you, it's when upscale bathrooms come with miners in the tile

06:04:04mircea_popescu:sort-of like nobody figured out why ruby on rails utterly sucks until they had tried to make websites in it for a few years and they could never get one secure. then it was pretty clear.

06:05:40monolithik:mircea: I think that bitcoin or a direct descendant (i.e. forked from the current chain, not some premined crap) will win. It's classic "worse is better".

06:05:40mircea_popescu:but yeah, Duffer1 has a point, fraudsters isn't exactly a manual, more like that one asshole instructor in karate that just beats the shit out of you and then laughs.

06:11:20mircea_popescu:BingoBoingo nah, davout's site is the cannonical example opf that.

06:14:58monolithik:i think that the idea of using a memory-hard hash function (e.g. scrypt a la litecoin) is good, but not enough of a gain to offset the network effects of all the infrastructure built up around btc

06:16:05toffoo:so mircea_popescu getting back to us/china gov mining, did you just make that up or is it based on any kind of evidence?

06:45:07mircea_popescu:" Each proposal to do so looked like an immediate winner. Measured by standard return-on-investment tests, in fact, these proposals usually promised greater economic benefits than would have resulted from comparable expenditures in our highly-profitable candy and newspaper businesses."

06:45:18mircea_popescu:"Viewed individually, each company's capital investment decision appeared cost-effective and rational; viewed collectively, the decisions neutralized each other and were irrational, just as happens when each person watching a parade decides he can see a little better if he stands on tiptoes."

07:18:33mircea_popescu:benkay anyone who believes that, to quote asciilifeform's earlier quoted article, "the U.S. government expects laws to be followed by everyone in the USA" may translate as hassling a foreign high class person

19:06:35jurov:"Well managed stakeholder expectations should keep blowback to a minimum in case of failure. Supposedly we have exceptional, unmatched strengths in PR, which we now have an opportunity to test, which is valuable."

19:23:40ThickAsThieves:"What does everyone else think about the idea of Gox allowing rapid transactions to mexico and brazil and other "cocaine rich" countries. Is this not going to create a hyper bubble? "

20:09:54the20year2:We're finally cashflowing from rental income, but the bigger money is from our equity gain, our total USD investment was $92,668.54 and our current asset & capital value is $192,035.16

20:14:23the20year2:the BTC appreciation is another ball game and hard for me to personally value. When everything was running on bitfunder decently, our values kept doing well, even as BTC/USD started to gain

20:15:04the20year2:in this case, you have to have teams of workers to do the rehab work , qualify tenants. Sure, you can spend more money to 'just get it done', but if you do that you pay retail for everything, and you can't make money by paying what everyone else does

20:15:21mircea_popescu:started is one thing. btc went up what, 50x this year.

20:15:56Duffer1:sorry i haven't followed rental starter at all, are you registered DPO or did you ipo?

20:24:41Duffer1:under 1m offering should qualify you for 504 exemption, but you still will need to register with your state, and adhere to their blue sky laws

20:25:10Duffer1:if you're interested in being squeky clean that is hehe :P

20:25:58the20year2:Our lawyer has made me aware of the requirements, the issue here is that I don't know of any US investors that we have, SEC allows me to file a PPM if/when I'm notified of US investors ,and since startup we've barred US investment

20:27:07the20year2:We've very seriously looked at doing a DPO but I can't round up enough investment to justify it

20:27:24Duffer1:ah, i was under the impression that even if you were operating in the US you'd have to register

20:28:34the20year2:The funds are sent to a LTD operated in the Hong Kong, of which I am not the director, there is a two way service agremeent between the two entities, according to what my personal understanding is, it can work that way. if we take on US investors, it needs to be done so at the US LLC level, and we then need to register

20:29:18the20year2:We'll qualify for most US crowdfunding and DPO laws next year as we're bringing a accounting firm into the mix in Janurary when we have our first book audit

20:31:17the20year2:I am the majority shareholder in the company, there is also a 15% management fee that comes into place. In order to comply with US tax laws, I take my dividends + management fee as salary