September 3, 2007

Host:

Mr. Conservative: Goldwater on Goldwater

C.C. Goldwater, joins us to talk about her grandfather, Barry Goldwater, and the HBO documentary about him that she produced with the help of her uncle, Barry Goldwater, Jr., a former Congressman in California.

Guests:

Greg Peterson - Urban farm resident, Phoenix

C.C. Goldwater - Filmmaker

View Transcript

Larry Lemmons:
Tonight on Horizon, An attempt to live sustainably in the heart of a big city. Is there an urban farm in your future? Also, a conversation with a son and granddaughter of Barry Goldwater, an intimate look at an iconic Arizona figure, next on this special edition of Horizon.

Announcer:
Horizon is made possible by contributions from the friends of 8. Members of your Arizona PBS station. Thank you.

Larry Lemmons:
Good evening and thanks for joining us on this special edition of Horizon. I'm Larry Lemmons. An urban farm. Almost sounds like an oxymoron, doesn't it? But the concept is becoming much more widespread. How do we live sustainably in an urban environment? As the world population climbs and resources dwindle, as worries of climate change affect the life decisions we make, more interest is being focused on how we can best use the resources around us. In a moment, I'll talk with a phoenix man who's doing just that. First, here's an excerpt from a program called, "smart spaces: inside and out". It's one project of many that he's created to promote a sustainable future.

Announcer:
Making your home energy efficient pays. Did you know for every dollar you decrease your energy bill, the value of your home increases $20? If you reduce your cost $400 a 2 year by installing solar panels, it will increase your sale by $800.

Amy Godfrey:
This is great and we don't have to turn a light on every time we come in the room.

Greg Peterson:
It makes a difference and is easy to install.

Amy Godfrey: Visit our website for more details on today's project and great tips for your smart home.

Greg Peterson:
Today we showed you three options for bringing the benefits of sunshine into your home.

Amy Godfrey:
All of the home improvement projects we tackled, solar panels, tubular sky lights and making savvy choices with light bulbs will make your home more sustainable.

Greg Peterson:
Join us next week for alternative vehicles.

Amy Godfrey:
From all of us, we wish you a happy and sustainable home.

Larry lemons: Joining us now, the man you just saw in that video, Greg Peterson, who lives on an urban farm in the heart of Phoenix. Welcome, Greg.

Greg Peterson:
Thanks.

Larry Lemmons:
Who was that with you?

Greg Peterson:
Amy Godfrey.

Larry Lemmons:
What is smart spaces T.V.?

Greg Peterson:
It's in pilot mode and what I do with the urban farm outside and what Amy does at her home inside. That's why we call it inside and out.

Larry Lemmons:
An urban farm, why don't you tell us about the concept. I was out there and it's unique. From the outside you wouldn't know it was different from any other house in the neighborhood. You have a lot going on.

Greg Peterson:
I designed it that way on purpose. I call it an urban farm to get people's attention. It's a third of an acre in an environmental showcase home. It showcases the different technologies we have available to us and all of us to integrate into our lives.

Larry Lemmons:
Why is it important to do that?

Greg Peterson:
I think we're looking at a future that could be planned out as pretty grim as we use up a lot of resources that we have. So what I'm doing with the urban farm and the t.v. show is bringing light to all the different things that we can do to lessen our impact.

Larry Lemmons:
At your house, I noticed--could you sort of describe some of the things you've got. You have a shower out there and solar panels and some construction. What all have you done?

Greg Peterson:
Urban farm is extreme in one way in that we installed many different kinds of sustainability options. We have an outdoor shower. It's nice to shower outdoors.

Larry Lemmons:
It is covered, right?

Greg Peterson:
It is private. The water runs into the yard. We take that resource, Phoenix tap water and run it out in the yard to water the yard. That's one of the things we do. We have two different kinds of solar panels on the roof. One is photo-type. It makes 20\% of the electricity and the other is an experiment. Basically a black box on the roof to heat air in the wintertime and hopefully heat the house.

Larry Lemmons:
You've also got, I noticed it was summer and hot and a lot of things were brown.

Greg Peterson:
Right.

Larry Lemmons:
You have a lot of crops out there if you want to call them that, certainly on a smaller level. What are you growing out there?

Greg Peterson:
This whole thing started seven years ago. I called it the urban farm. I was farming and actually growing food. What I have done over the past seven years is I landscaped the yards with three edibles. We have three growing seasons in town and during even season there are different things growing. Summer-time crops, watermelon, okra those types of things.

Larry Lemmons:
You have a website.

Greg Peterson:
yourguidetogreen.com is how you have a sustainable lifestyle and we blog and there's a store so you can actually buy products that help you live a more green life.

Larry Lemmons:
Show that. That's one of the things that you can get?

Greg Peterson:
Right. This addresses the issue we have with plastic bottles.

Larry Lemmons:
Why don't you hold it up so people can see it a little bit.

Greg Peterson:
That is stainless steel bottle. I fill it up at my house. It reduces my need to consume plastic water bottles.

Larry Lemmons:
Yeah, that's been a big deal recently. I think in San Francisco they are trying to ban plastic.

Greg Peterson:
The plastic bags I think for sure in San Francisco and I think they are talking about the plastic bottles.

Larry Lemmons:
What other products do you have?

Greg Peterson:
From solar ovens and organic cotton bags and everything to live a sustainable lifestyle.

Larry lemons:
It's been successful for you, hasn't it?

Greg Peterson:
Absolutely. We're at the cusp of this momentum building that's going green. Five years ago, three years ago going green was not cool. Now we see it every day in the media and newspapers. I've been doing this actually for 30 years. So this is really, you know, a culmination of my life and everything I'm doing to enlighten people around living a greener lifestyle.

Larry Lemmons:
We have 30 seconds. Can you tell us about yourguidetogreen.com again and what you have?

Greg Peterson:
It's an education website designed to teach people how to make green choices. And smart spaces inside and out is the t.v. show.

Larry Lemmons:
Thank you, Greg Peterson.

Larry Lemmons:
I suppose I really don't need to explain the impact of Barry Goldwater on the state of Arizona, or, in fact, on the United States. But if, by chance, you're new to the area, or relatively young, just be aware that Barry Goldwater remains one of the most iconic figures of this state. He was an Arizona senator who ran for president and lost in 1964, and who is credited with being the father of a brand of American conservatism that eventually found expression in the presidency of Ronald Reagan. Recently, his granddaughter, C.C. Goldwater, produced a documentary that details not only the historical Barry Goldwater but also the husband and father. Not long ago the Goldwater institute, the libertarian think-tank, debuted the d.v.d. of the documentary, "Mr. Conservative, Goldwater on Goldwater," that originally ran on hbo. I went to the Goldwater institute before the viewing to talk to C.C. Goldwater and her uncle, Barry Goldwater jr., a former republican congressman from California. First, here's a bit of the documentary.

Barry Goldwater:
Let's grow up conservatives. That's if we want to take this party back, I think we can someday. Let's get to work. [ cheers and applause ]

>> He didn't pick his constituents. They picked Goldwater and say you're our candidate and you're going run for president.

Richard Viguerie:
Goldwater is all we had. He and he alone stood up in the senate and said to the Republican Party that the emperor has no clothes on.

Larry Lemmons:
We're at the Goldwater institute because they are actually airing the d.v.d. how do you respond to the response the d.v.d. has gotten.

C.C. Goldwater:
I'm a novice film maker.

Larry Lemmons:
This is your first time?

C.C. Goldwater:
Yes, I have not done this. I have an incredible subject matter and having Barry for a grandfather was a privilege. It's an honor to do this film. it was kind of time to put out the story of Barry Goldwater, his personal lives, his politics, his stance, where he was, how he was as a father, that story of him. I think in Arizona he's become known as such an icon and nationally he's recognized, too.

Larry Lemmons:
It's easier I presume, because you have 16-millimeter film in the house and all the photographs, maybe it made it easier to concentrate on that.

C.C. Goldwater:
The 16-millimeter film is aghast to go through because I went to my uncle mike's house and he had cans and cans and hours and hours of footage. They were some best and worst stuff that I ever seen. We found wonderful gems going through this film. We had to have it digitized and there was a process to that. It was hours and hours of film footage that Barry took himself. He loved doing that.

Barry Goldwater, Jr:
The family's very proud of what she did of this documentary of a very complex and complicated man who lived to be almost 90. And to go through a lifetime of what he's accomplished and what he's done was no small task.

Larry Lemmons:
And to also look at some of the warts as well.

C.C. Goldwater:
You can't put a person's life together without showing, you know, the good, the bad and the ugly. It wasn't--you know, there wasn't one particular thing we were trying to show. We wanted to show the person as a person, as a human being. That to some people is a bit of a shock because look at it and say, I don't know if he was really like that. They really want to question it. When you see the film, you say, well we didn't contrive it. It wasn't like we added, you know, his voice, you know, his mouth moving and I put words in there. It's him. So I think hopefully this will help people understand the magnitude of what kind of personality and what a value we had in this state and nationally.

Barry Goldwater, Jr:
But she did a good job on it.

Larry Lemmons:
The family's happy about it?

Barry Goldwater Jr:
We're very happy. The life of Senator Barry Goldwater goes way way back before his birth, back when the Goldwater came to America in the 1860's. They were polish Jews who came here to America looking for opportunity and they found it. They worked hard. They sacrificed and took risks and failed many times and picked themselves up.

Larry Lemmons:
This was before Arizona was a state obviously.

Barry Goldwater, Jr:
Long before it was a state. They eventually became successful. If you look back on it, that's planted the seed for philosophy of conservatism that launched my father. Conservatives being is hard work and taking care of your family and self-reliance. That was the pioneer that made America great. I think somehow or another we are losing our way and bring ourselves forward and look at what's happening to our society. But Senator Goldwater, you know, he was born in the territory. His family were in the clothing business. He didn't go into that business but he went to war and he fought in the second war world flying the hump over to Indias and national Chinese. He came back and went in the city council and ran for United States senator in 1952 against the majority leader Ernest McFarland, very powerful. This was a tremendous upset for our father to win. I think I was about 13 or 14 at the time. We had fun and nailed posters up and posed for pictures and that was the big thing in the day. It still is. Today you get the family all together with family pictures and we did that a lot. And then all of sudden we found ourselves in Washington, D.C. out of our element and on the east coast. We wound up going to high school. But it's been an enjoyable ride and I think C.C. has captured that side most people don't know.

Larry Lemmons:
Did you go back to the very beginning?

C.C. Goldwater:
Absolutely.

Larry Lemmons:
You talked about early days.

C.C. Goldwater:
Early days, the department store. He growing up and his mother and how influential she was to him in his life and that crafted him as a very unique person because he had a very stoic backbone to his whole world. He knew that values were set very high. And he had a constitutional thought that was very renegade and for him to come out and want to be a politician, I don't think that was ever really his goal per se. I think it was more of I just want to do something good and I want to mean something and I've been put on this world to be something important but I'm not sure what it is. I think city council rolled around and McFarland rolled around and the next thing he was--like my uncle said, they are in Washington, fish out of the water, wearing cowboy boots and hats and said they're here.

Larry Lemmons:
You talked about how honest he was. I'm a cynical guy. I'm in the media. Could he have made a successful politician today as he did back then with his candor and honesty?

Barry Goldwater, Jr:
I think people are crying out for honesty. Someone will come out with good constitutional values. We are floundering. I think there's a void, a vacuum looking for another Barry Goldwater. I think it would do very well.

Larry Lemmons:
You went along with his presidential run in '64. Can you give us an antidote?

Barry Goldwater, Jr:
I served with him in congress for 14 years. I had a lot of interesting experiences with my father. I remember when I first moved to Washington to go to the congress representing California, Los Angeles, I lived in my dad's house. We used to argue all the time. It wasn't about foreign policy or domestic or education. It was who is going to take out the garbage tonight.

C.C. Goldwater:
Or if he borrowed a tool from my grandfather he didn't put it back in the right place. When I did the film, you can see the dynamics of an incredibly strong man who had an extreme belief on the way it should be. He never waffled on it. He was never wishy-washy. So many politicians today go back and forth and you never know what they are doing. You look at Barry Goldwater and he was so true and consistent with everything he did it was never a question.

Larry Lemmons:
Back in those days did they not use that against him? Lyndon Johnson for example and the whole girl with the daisy.

C.C. Goldwater:
I think the daisy commercial was the advent to get ugly and make it mean. Let's not talk about the issues. We'll do quick little ugliness with a little girl and her blowing up and, you know.

Barry Goldwater, Jr:
I don't think Senator Goldwater was a great politician. He was not politically smart. But that didn't matter to him. You had to take him the way he was. And that is, he's going to tell you exactly what he thinks. He's not going to think first and test the wind or take a poll. He's a straight shooter.

Larry Lemmons:
Is that why he's an iconic figure especially around Arizona and around the country with Ronald Regan thinking of Barry Goldwater as having started all of that?

Barry Goldwater, Jr:
I think the senator was the first to launch or be a spokesperson. The people were just looking for this. We had so much of that east coast liberalism more and more government and more and more taxes and an expanse of foreign policy. they were looking for a 12 conservative who believed in the constitution, limited government, less taxes, local control over education not Washington, d.c. he delivered the goods and that's why he got the nomination and took it away from the east coast establishment and it had a good run until the recent republican-controlled congress. To Ronald Regan and George Bush Sr, Nixon, conservatism flourished. I think it's time for another one.

Larry Lemmons:
I know I've heard in previous interviews they were asking you that. Would he be a republican today even? Would he be that kind of conservative? How do you think he would respond?

C.C. Goldwater:
that's a tough question because I personally think after doing this film and spending as much as time as I did on it, which was five years, getting that close on understanding him. He's such a libertarian. I think his thoughts would not be perceived as republican.

Larry Lemmons:
Not today.

C.C. Goldwater:
I think he would be disappointed in where it has gone and the direction. I think he foresaw that. Again he wasn't a polished politician. He didn't care. His tie was slightly askew and he if had a piece of crumb on it and somebody throw in a baby, he had to get to a meeting.

Barry Goldwater, Jr:
I think he would be perceived as a conservative. As George says in the documentary the issue of abortion, gay rights, that was not on the table at the time. That came later. And when he was asked about it, he took a true conservative approach. The government has no business. Religion has no business in government. The government has no business telling you and me what to do. He would still be perceived as a conservative maybe as a libertarian.

Larry Lemmons:
Despite his conservatism apparently a good friend of John F. Kennedy as well.

Annoucer:
Jack Kennedy was a friend of dad's and after Kennedy became President, he said jokingly if you ever run, we should talk about the campaign. The discussion got down to why don't we buy or rent an airplane and the two of us would travel on a same airplane.

C.C. Goldwater:
That was a surprising antidote to include. They had served in Washington. They had known each other. They were kind of cuts from the same cloth striking and dramatic men and they sucked the charisma out of the room. The women fell all over them. They were great guys. They had a lot of respect for each other and had a common denominator and they planned to run together and share a plane and talk about the issues. Kind of make it a civilized political venue than it is now.

Barry Goldwater, Jr:
An old-fashioned debate.

Larry Lemmons:
I wanted to talk before you go. You worked on the right to privacy in 1974 when you were in congress and wall street journal said the program is expanded actually and they will be using satellite imagery they normally use for the military for domestic purposes. I would want your response to that.

Barry Goldwater, Jr:
If I was an American, I would be up in arms. To use satellite to spy on our citizens, that's taken too far. Our privacy has been eroded especially with the electronics. It's just another device to help the government invade your privacy without your knowledge. Privacy is a part of your personality. You have the right to know that somebody's snooping into your bedroom, into your bank account or looking at you from the sky. I think it's taking it too far and it's unnecessary to do what we need to do to protect America.

Larry Lemmons:
One more thing also before we go. I know you're a supporter of Ron Paul running for president as well.

Barry Goldwater, Jr:
I like Ron Paul. I think of all the candidates he's the most honest conservative we have. True constitutionalist. He believes truly. He's not talking the talk. He's walking the walk. That's why I like Ron Paul. He's consistent. He doesn't waffle on issues. When you talk to him, you get him. He reminds me of my dad. That's one of the reasons I like him.

Larry Lemmons:
One of last thing, too, C.C., what do you take from the impression of Barry Goldwater since your documentary came out? Do you think it's opened their eyes?

C.C. Goldwater:
Definitely. They get emotional and have a myriad of feelings because it brings back nostalgia and younger kids didn't know anything about Barry. They were like Barry Goldwater. I asked young kids. Wasn't he a governor of California? He was in congress, no? I think what it has done is given a wider platform to his ideals and values and system of the way he wanted to operate. And it gives his private view of a passion for photography and love of Native American culture and being in this state and supporting it.

Larry Lemmons:
What about getting to do this for your grandfather.

C.C. Goldwater:
I was very lucky. There was incredible energy. Hbo was part of making the film. Hbo and six feet under, they didn't get it. I had to really be willing to open up a lot of areas I think up until now my family wouldn't want to go into because of the fact it was so fresh. When he died it was a very personal, emotional feeling for all of us because he was our hero.

Larry Lemmons:
C.C. Goldwater and Barry Goldwater. Thank you very much for talking with us.

Larry Lemmons:
Thanks for joining us tonight on this special edition of horizon. Join us each night for the best on public affairs project. I'm Larry Lemmons. Good night.

Urban Farm

Phoenix resident Greg Peterson has turned his neighborhood house into a sustainable energy system. He joins us to talk about his lifestyle and his sustainable business.

Larry Lemmons:
Tonight on Horizon, An attempt to live sustainably in the heart of a big city. Is there an urban farm in your future? Also, a conversation with a son and granddaughter of Barry Goldwater, an intimate look at an iconic Arizona figure, next on this special edition of Horizon.

Announcer:
Horizon is made possible by contributions from the friends of 8. Members of your Arizona PBS station. Thank you.

Larry Lemmons:
Good evening and thanks for joining us on this special edition of Horizon. I'm Larry Lemmons. An urban farm. Almost sounds like an oxymoron, doesn't it? But the concept is becoming much more widespread. How do we live sustainably in an urban environment? As the world population climbs and resources dwindle, as worries of climate change affect the life decisions we make, more interest is being focused on how we can best use the resources around us. In a moment, I'll talk with a phoenix man who's doing just that. First, here's an excerpt from a program called, "smart spaces: inside and out". It's one project of many that he's created to promote a sustainable future.

Announcer:
Making your home energy efficient pays. Did you know for every dollar you decrease your energy bill, the value of your home increases $20? If you reduce your cost $400 a 2 year by installing solar panels, it will increase your sale by $800.

Amy Godfrey:
This is great and we don't have to turn a light on every time we come in the room.

Greg Peterson:
It makes a difference and is easy to install.

Amy Godfrey: Visit our website for more details on today's project and great tips for your smart home.

Greg Peterson:
Today we showed you three options for bringing the benefits of sunshine into your home.

Amy Godfrey:
All of the home improvement projects we tackled, solar panels, tubular sky lights and making savvy choices with light bulbs will make your home more sustainable.

Greg Peterson:
Join us next week for alternative vehicles.

Amy Godfrey:
From all of us, we wish you a happy and sustainable home.

Larry lemons: Joining us now, the man you just saw in that video, Greg Peterson, who lives on an urban farm in the heart of Phoenix. Welcome, Greg.

Greg Peterson:
Thanks.

Larry Lemmons:
Who was that with you?

Greg Peterson:
Amy Godfrey.

Larry Lemmons:
What is smart spaces T.V.?

Greg Peterson:
It's in pilot mode and what I do with the urban farm outside and what Amy does at her home inside. That's why we call it inside and out.

Larry Lemmons:
An urban farm, why don't you tell us about the concept. I was out there and it's unique. From the outside you wouldn't know it was different from any other house in the neighborhood. You have a lot going on.

Greg Peterson:
I designed it that way on purpose. I call it an urban farm to get people's attention. It's a third of an acre in an environmental showcase home. It showcases the different technologies we have available to us and all of us to integrate into our lives.

Larry Lemmons:
Why is it important to do that?

Greg Peterson:
I think we're looking at a future that could be planned out as pretty grim as we use up a lot of resources that we have. So what I'm doing with the urban farm and the t.v. show is bringing light to all the different things that we can do to lessen our impact.

Larry Lemmons:
At your house, I noticed--could you sort of describe some of the things you've got. You have a shower out there and solar panels and some construction. What all have you done?

Greg Peterson:
Urban farm is extreme in one way in that we installed many different kinds of sustainability options. We have an outdoor shower. It's nice to shower outdoors.

Larry Lemmons:
It is covered, right?

Greg Peterson:
It is private. The water runs into the yard. We take that resource, Phoenix tap water and run it out in the yard to water the yard. That's one of the things we do. We have two different kinds of solar panels on the roof. One is photo-type. It makes 20\% of the electricity and the other is an experiment. Basically a black box on the roof to heat air in the wintertime and hopefully heat the house.

Larry Lemmons:
You've also got, I noticed it was summer and hot and a lot of things were brown.

Greg Peterson:
Right.

Larry Lemmons:
You have a lot of crops out there if you want to call them that, certainly on a smaller level. What are you growing out there?

Greg Peterson:
This whole thing started seven years ago. I called it the urban farm. I was farming and actually growing food. What I have done over the past seven years is I landscaped the yards with three edibles. We have three growing seasons in town and during even season there are different things growing. Summer-time crops, watermelon, okra those types of things.

Larry Lemmons:
You have a website.

Greg Peterson:
yourguidetogreen.com is how you have a sustainable lifestyle and we blog and there's a store so you can actually buy products that help you live a more green life.

Larry Lemmons:
Show that. That's one of the things that you can get?

Greg Peterson:
Right. This addresses the issue we have with plastic bottles.

Larry Lemmons:
Why don't you hold it up so people can see it a little bit.

Greg Peterson:
That is stainless steel bottle. I fill it up at my house. It reduces my need to consume plastic water bottles.

Larry Lemmons:
Yeah, that's been a big deal recently. I think in San Francisco they are trying to ban plastic.

Greg Peterson:
The plastic bags I think for sure in San Francisco and I think they are talking about the plastic bottles.

Larry Lemmons:
What other products do you have?

Greg Peterson:
From solar ovens and organic cotton bags and everything to live a sustainable lifestyle.

Larry lemons:
It's been successful for you, hasn't it?

Greg Peterson:
Absolutely. We're at the cusp of this momentum building that's going green. Five years ago, three years ago going green was not cool. Now we see it every day in the media and newspapers. I've been doing this actually for 30 years. So this is really, you know, a culmination of my life and everything I'm doing to enlighten people around living a greener lifestyle.

Larry Lemmons:
We have 30 seconds. Can you tell us about yourguidetogreen.com again and what you have?

Greg Peterson:
It's an education website designed to teach people how to make green choices. And smart spaces inside and out is the t.v. show.

Larry Lemmons:
Thank you, Greg Peterson.

Larry Lemmons:
I suppose I really don't need to explain the impact of Barry Goldwater on the state of Arizona, or, in fact, on the United States. But if, by chance, you're new to the area, or relatively young, just be aware that Barry Goldwater remains one of the most iconic figures of this state. He was an Arizona senator who ran for president and lost in 1964, and who is credited with being the father of a brand of American conservatism that eventually found expression in the presidency of Ronald Reagan. Recently, his granddaughter, C.C. Goldwater, produced a documentary that details not only the historical Barry Goldwater but also the husband and father. Not long ago the Goldwater institute, the libertarian think-tank, debuted the d.v.d. of the documentary, "Mr. Conservative, Goldwater on Goldwater," that originally ran on hbo. I went to the Goldwater institute before the viewing to talk to C.C. Goldwater and her uncle, Barry Goldwater jr., a former republican congressman from California. First, here's a bit of the documentary.

Barry Goldwater:
Let's grow up conservatives. That's if we want to take this party back, I think we can someday. Let's get to work. [ cheers and applause ]

>> He didn't pick his constituents. They picked Goldwater and say you're our candidate and you're going run for president.

Richard Viguerie:
Goldwater is all we had. He and he alone stood up in the senate and said to the Republican Party that the emperor has no clothes on.

Larry Lemmons:
We're at the Goldwater institute because they are actually airing the d.v.d. how do you respond to the response the d.v.d. has gotten.

C.C. Goldwater:
I'm a novice film maker.

Larry Lemmons:
This is your first time?

C.C. Goldwater:
Yes, I have not done this. I have an incredible subject matter and having Barry for a grandfather was a privilege. It's an honor to do this film. it was kind of time to put out the story of Barry Goldwater, his personal lives, his politics, his stance, where he was, how he was as a father, that story of him. I think in Arizona he's become known as such an icon and nationally he's recognized, too.

Larry Lemmons:
It's easier I presume, because you have 16-millimeter film in the house and all the photographs, maybe it made it easier to concentrate on that.

C.C. Goldwater:
The 16-millimeter film is aghast to go through because I went to my uncle mike's house and he had cans and cans and hours and hours of footage. They were some best and worst stuff that I ever seen. We found wonderful gems going through this film. We had to have it digitized and there was a process to that. It was hours and hours of film footage that Barry took himself. He loved doing that.

Barry Goldwater, Jr:
The family's very proud of what she did of this documentary of a very complex and complicated man who lived to be almost 90. And to go through a lifetime of what he's accomplished and what he's done was no small task.

Larry Lemmons:
And to also look at some of the warts as well.

C.C. Goldwater:
You can't put a person's life together without showing, you know, the good, the bad and the ugly. It wasn't--you know, there wasn't one particular thing we were trying to show. We wanted to show the person as a person, as a human being. That to some people is a bit of a shock because look at it and say, I don't know if he was really like that. They really want to question it. When you see the film, you say, well we didn't contrive it. It wasn't like we added, you know, his voice, you know, his mouth moving and I put words in there. It's him. So I think hopefully this will help people understand the magnitude of what kind of personality and what a value we had in this state and nationally.

Barry Goldwater, Jr:
But she did a good job on it.

Larry Lemmons:
The family's happy about it?

Barry Goldwater Jr:
We're very happy. The life of Senator Barry Goldwater goes way way back before his birth, back when the Goldwater came to America in the 1860's. They were polish Jews who came here to America looking for opportunity and they found it. They worked hard. They sacrificed and took risks and failed many times and picked themselves up.

Larry Lemmons:
This was before Arizona was a state obviously.

Barry Goldwater, Jr:
Long before it was a state. They eventually became successful. If you look back on it, that's planted the seed for philosophy of conservatism that launched my father. Conservatives being is hard work and taking care of your family and self-reliance. That was the pioneer that made America great. I think somehow or another we are losing our way and bring ourselves forward and look at what's happening to our society. But Senator Goldwater, you know, he was born in the territory. His family were in the clothing business. He didn't go into that business but he went to war and he fought in the second war world flying the hump over to Indias and national Chinese. He came back and went in the city council and ran for United States senator in 1952 against the majority leader Ernest McFarland, very powerful. This was a tremendous upset for our father to win. I think I was about 13 or 14 at the time. We had fun and nailed posters up and posed for pictures and that was the big thing in the day. It still is. Today you get the family all together with family pictures and we did that a lot. And then all of sudden we found ourselves in Washington, D.C. out of our element and on the east coast. We wound up going to high school. But it's been an enjoyable ride and I think C.C. has captured that side most people don't know.

Larry Lemmons:
Did you go back to the very beginning?

C.C. Goldwater:
Absolutely.

Larry Lemmons:
You talked about early days.

C.C. Goldwater:
Early days, the department store. He growing up and his mother and how influential she was to him in his life and that crafted him as a very unique person because he had a very stoic backbone to his whole world. He knew that values were set very high. And he had a constitutional thought that was very renegade and for him to come out and want to be a politician, I don't think that was ever really his goal per se. I think it was more of I just want to do something good and I want to mean something and I've been put on this world to be something important but I'm not sure what it is. I think city council rolled around and McFarland rolled around and the next thing he was--like my uncle said, they are in Washington, fish out of the water, wearing cowboy boots and hats and said they're here.

Larry Lemmons:
You talked about how honest he was. I'm a cynical guy. I'm in the media. Could he have made a successful politician today as he did back then with his candor and honesty?

Barry Goldwater, Jr:
I think people are crying out for honesty. Someone will come out with good constitutional values. We are floundering. I think there's a void, a vacuum looking for another Barry Goldwater. I think it would do very well.

Larry Lemmons:
You went along with his presidential run in '64. Can you give us an antidote?

Barry Goldwater, Jr:
I served with him in congress for 14 years. I had a lot of interesting experiences with my father. I remember when I first moved to Washington to go to the congress representing California, Los Angeles, I lived in my dad's house. We used to argue all the time. It wasn't about foreign policy or domestic or education. It was who is going to take out the garbage tonight.

C.C. Goldwater:
Or if he borrowed a tool from my grandfather he didn't put it back in the right place. When I did the film, you can see the dynamics of an incredibly strong man who had an extreme belief on the way it should be. He never waffled on it. He was never wishy-washy. So many politicians today go back and forth and you never know what they are doing. You look at Barry Goldwater and he was so true and consistent with everything he did it was never a question.

Larry Lemmons:
Back in those days did they not use that against him? Lyndon Johnson for example and the whole girl with the daisy.

C.C. Goldwater:
I think the daisy commercial was the advent to get ugly and make it mean. Let's not talk about the issues. We'll do quick little ugliness with a little girl and her blowing up and, you know.

Barry Goldwater, Jr:
I don't think Senator Goldwater was a great politician. He was not politically smart. But that didn't matter to him. You had to take him the way he was. And that is, he's going to tell you exactly what he thinks. He's not going to think first and test the wind or take a poll. He's a straight shooter.

Larry Lemmons:
Is that why he's an iconic figure especially around Arizona and around the country with Ronald Regan thinking of Barry Goldwater as having started all of that?

Barry Goldwater, Jr:
I think the senator was the first to launch or be a spokesperson. The people were just looking for this. We had so much of that east coast liberalism more and more government and more and more taxes and an expanse of foreign policy. they were looking for a 12 conservative who believed in the constitution, limited government, less taxes, local control over education not Washington, d.c. he delivered the goods and that's why he got the nomination and took it away from the east coast establishment and it had a good run until the recent republican-controlled congress. To Ronald Regan and George Bush Sr, Nixon, conservatism flourished. I think it's time for another one.

Larry Lemmons:
I know I've heard in previous interviews they were asking you that. Would he be a republican today even? Would he be that kind of conservative? How do you think he would respond?

C.C. Goldwater:
that's a tough question because I personally think after doing this film and spending as much as time as I did on it, which was five years, getting that close on understanding him. He's such a libertarian. I think his thoughts would not be perceived as republican.

Larry Lemmons:
Not today.

C.C. Goldwater:
I think he would be disappointed in where it has gone and the direction. I think he foresaw that. Again he wasn't a polished politician. He didn't care. His tie was slightly askew and he if had a piece of crumb on it and somebody throw in a baby, he had to get to a meeting.

Barry Goldwater, Jr:
I think he would be perceived as a conservative. As George says in the documentary the issue of abortion, gay rights, that was not on the table at the time. That came later. And when he was asked about it, he took a true conservative approach. The government has no business. Religion has no business in government. The government has no business telling you and me what to do. He would still be perceived as a conservative maybe as a libertarian.

Larry Lemmons:
Despite his conservatism apparently a good friend of John F. Kennedy as well.

Annoucer:
Jack Kennedy was a friend of dad's and after Kennedy became President, he said jokingly if you ever run, we should talk about the campaign. The discussion got down to why don't we buy or rent an airplane and the two of us would travel on a same airplane.

C.C. Goldwater:
That was a surprising antidote to include. They had served in Washington. They had known each other. They were kind of cuts from the same cloth striking and dramatic men and they sucked the charisma out of the room. The women fell all over them. They were great guys. They had a lot of respect for each other and had a common denominator and they planned to run together and share a plane and talk about the issues. Kind of make it a civilized political venue than it is now.

Barry Goldwater, Jr:
An old-fashioned debate.

Larry Lemmons:
I wanted to talk before you go. You worked on the right to privacy in 1974 when you were in congress and wall street journal said the program is expanded actually and they will be using satellite imagery they normally use for the military for domestic purposes. I would want your response to that.

Barry Goldwater, Jr:
If I was an American, I would be up in arms. To use satellite to spy on our citizens, that's taken too far. Our privacy has been eroded especially with the electronics. It's just another device to help the government invade your privacy without your knowledge. Privacy is a part of your personality. You have the right to know that somebody's snooping into your bedroom, into your bank account or looking at you from the sky. I think it's taking it too far and it's unnecessary to do what we need to do to protect America.

Larry Lemmons:
One more thing also before we go. I know you're a supporter of Ron Paul running for president as well.

Barry Goldwater, Jr:
I like Ron Paul. I think of all the candidates he's the most honest conservative we have. True constitutionalist. He believes truly. He's not talking the talk. He's walking the walk. That's why I like Ron Paul. He's consistent. He doesn't waffle on issues. When you talk to him, you get him. He reminds me of my dad. That's one of the reasons I like him.

Larry Lemmons:
One of last thing, too, C.C., what do you take from the impression of Barry Goldwater since your documentary came out? Do you think it's opened their eyes?

C.C. Goldwater:
Definitely. They get emotional and have a myriad of feelings because it brings back nostalgia and younger kids didn't know anything about Barry. They were like Barry Goldwater. I asked young kids. Wasn't he a governor of California? He was in congress, no? I think what it has done is given a wider platform to his ideals and values and system of the way he wanted to operate. And it gives his private view of a passion for photography and love of Native American culture and being in this state and supporting it.

Larry Lemmons:
What about getting to do this for your grandfather.

C.C. Goldwater:
I was very lucky. There was incredible energy. Hbo was part of making the film. Hbo and six feet under, they didn't get it. I had to really be willing to open up a lot of areas I think up until now my family wouldn't want to go into because of the fact it was so fresh. When he died it was a very personal, emotional feeling for all of us because he was our hero.

Larry Lemmons:
C.C. Goldwater and Barry Goldwater. Thank you very much for talking with us.

Larry Lemmons:
Thanks for joining us tonight on this special edition of horizon. Join us each night for the best on public affairs project. I'm Larry Lemmons. Good night.