I'm amazed at the amount of people who "don't understand" what's wrong with Garrosh.

Is it just simple lack of life experience, wisdom, intelligence? Is it some kind of a crush on a bad boy? Whatever it is, it's clearly blocking the parts of the brain that do the important work.

I don't think there are very many people who don't understand what's wrong with him right now. He's turning into Genghis Khan right in front of us, kind of hard to miss that. The issue is that he didn't have this problem as little as two months ago. The old Garrosh had a code. The new Garrosh does not. There has been no effort made to explain why this is.

I'm amazed at the amount of people who "don't understand" what's wrong with Garrosh.

Is it just simple lack of life experience, wisdom, intelligence? Is it some kind of a crush on a bad boy? Whatever it is, it's clearly blocking the parts of the brain that do the important work.

Lack of experiance, wisdom or inteligence don't necessarily make a villian.

Yes, Garrosh is just like his father, he does not think twice (or even once) before attacking those he considers enemies. He goes to extrele lenghts to protect his people, which can become his undoing.

He had qualities as a leader, you can't say he didn't. I've seen him as a much better warchief than Thrall, and now I simply cannot force myself to see this guy coming back on throne. But, I understand, there is always a desire for an end boss, even in an expansion like MoP. By the way, isn't it silly? Expansion about war - we kill off the war by killing the warmonger at the end. So what, no more war in Warcraft? I kinda doubt that.

I'd like Garrosh as a villian. I would, yes. Because the kind of villian Blizzard gave us is... just meh. First of all, there is no transition between Cata Garrosh and MoP Garrosh, even in the shitty book. We just have to accept he just "changed", without any factors whatsoever. A leader favouring honorable melee combat - throws an atomic bomb on a city full of people? A warrior, who hates Magatha because of poisoning his weapon and stripping him from glory of honorable victory - sends assassins to kill Vol'Jin in the same way? Orc, who despises the Forsaken for ressurecting corpses of dead soldiers - infuses his own people with nearly-demonic powers and strips them from free will? Are we reading the same story again?

Garrosh became a "bad guy", and the worst possible kind of that. He is bad just because he is, no rhyme or reason. In patch 5.2 he may give you a quest to fill his fortress with puppies just so he can stomp on them; wouldn't be suprised. Making him the one who is the final boss of the expansion is not a bad idea, it just needs to be executed well. Right now Garrosh is stripped from any character, there is nothing more interesting about him. But couldn't it become a better story? Even a version where he becomes "sha-infused" or something like that by accident, tho lazy, is better. Showing players his road, his descent to madness that leads players to killing him because of the threat he is to the Azeroth - would be great, but there is no such a road.

In conclusion, Blizzard failed to create an interesting character. And it's just bad.

I think the explination is, which was touched on a bit in Tides of War, is that Garrosh has become frustrated by the lack of progress the Horde had made in the war.

But also, Metzen did say they orginally intended to make Garrosh a villian after MoP, not now. So that could explain the bit of a jump in character.

So in under a year he goes from "Honor. Never forsake it" to "Whatever works, works." He goes from seriously considering cutting my head off for helping a warlock summon demons to take back the Horde's foothold in eastern Ashenvale to filling his own Kor'kron full of warlocks. And all of this is because progress was too slow? Maybe that is the officially stated reason, but it's not a very good one. Grom at least was fighting for his very survival when he drank the second dose of demon blood. Garrosh only needs a stalemate to defenestrate the rule book? Please.

And if the Alliance weren't written to be passive, stupid, uncoordinated nitwits throwing their corpses against horde plot armour in the story, the moon is the only place the Horde would be allowed to live, having thoroughly been crushed into the dirt on Azeroth.

Also, everything, every last bit of the story tells you the Mogu weren't great. They had no power, no skills, even their magic was mostly bluster; all the mogu had was a lot of bulk, belligerence and intimidation. They collapsed faster than you can say "mogu" when the people they enslaved stopped fearing them. They couldn't touch the Mantid, their enforcer race the Saurok annihilated them outright, including their emperor in Krasarang, and the Pandaren, Hozen, Jinyu and Grummles rebelling destroyed the inept Mogu's ability to do anything. Orcs can't do anything, they have no practical skills, no innovation, there are no thinkers amongst them. All they can do is wage war, hope they win, and steal whatever is there, exhaust it, and repeat the cycle. They will never last so long as there are people who oppose them.

No offense but this is one of the most uninformed posts I have ever read. Orcs cant do anything? Orcs have no practical skills, no innovation? I seem to recall something the orcs created called... oh umm what was that? Oh yeah, THE DARK PORTAL. Orcs have had highly intellectual thinkers such as Nerzhul, Guldan etc.. sure they ended up being corrupted by their deep knowledge, but the humans were no better. See Varian (luckily escaped his corruption as did Grom Hellscream) and Mediv. Several alliance races can be argued the same way in that they pretty much self destructed. The Gnomes were almost completely wiped out, as were the night elves. The High elves would have been up shit creek without a paddle if it werent for the horde.

In all reality the horde are just as good as the alliance in terms of honor, intellect and might. It isnt the hordes fault that Garrosh is a fuckweed. And just as Arthas did... Garrosh' original intentions were good, but got clouded by hatred and the desire for vengeance.. Oh yeah.. remember how Arthas was a HUMAN in the ALLIANCE?

Dont post mindless flaming when you clearly dont know the lore at all it would seem. You were spot on with the Mogu and Garrosh having the same mindset that they did, but the horde is no way comparable nor is the race of the orcs to the Mogu.

Oh and who else knows that nowt hat Garrosh in on Pandaria that we are gonna see the whole "he gets corrupted by the sha" as the reason we have to take him down.

No offense but this is one of the most uninformed posts I have ever read. Orcs cant do anything? Orcs have no practical skills, no innovation? I seem to recall something the orcs created called... oh umm what was that? Oh yeah, THE DARK PORTAL. Orcs have had highly intellectual thinkers such as Nerzhul, Guldan etc.. sure they ended up being corrupted by their deep knowledge, but the humans were no better.

This is incorrect. The orcs were taught basically everything they know, by other races, the dark portal is a prime example of that. The orcs have no advanced technology, all they had were shamans and huts, they were a hunter gatherer society.

He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

I wanted to like Garrosh, and Blizzard tried now and then to make him likeable, but that was only in between them making him unlikeable. And after a while they just decided to keep making him more and more unlikeable until he became a bad guy.

I still thought the quest where he runs around Domination Point killing Alliance with you was pretty cool.

I like having an aggressive leader willing to expand the Horde, rather than someone that just pussyfoots around trying not to piss anyone off

Migrate to Afganistan or wherever those Al-Quaeda guys live? Chechnya sounds good too. That'll get you your "aggressive leaders". That'll also teach that adolescent dreams of aggressive grandeur and real life are two quite different things.

I wanted to like Garrosh, and Blizzard tried now and then to make him likeable, but that was only in between them making him unlikeable. And after a while they just decided to keep making him more and more unlikeable until he became a bad guy.

I still thought the quest where he runs around Domination Point killing Alliance with you was pretty cool.

Wait till you see the mogu bodies he leaves behind in a quest in the chain god good

Plz guys garrosh is a fictional character made up by chris metzen and his cohorts WoW is a fictional game dont waste your time pouring venom against something that does not exist

We all know how this will end (thanks blizz for ruining it) so just enjoy the story and conflict something that has been sorely lacking imo

I will miss the fun when it ends the banter the flame wars etc when we have to go back to the bullshit cold war and killing no name demons naga or what ever the next xpac will be

I will miss the rivalry with my mates at work its better than the rivalry i have with my favorite sport teams rivals

Cant you guys just loosen up drink a little demon blood and go nuts on each other i love killing my ally friends at work i love being apart of a horde that wants to conquer and pillage and just GO FUCKING LOK'TAR OGAR

Migrate to Afganistan or wherever those Al-Quaeda guys live? Chechnya sounds good too. That'll get you your "aggressive leaders". That'll also teach that adolescent dreams of aggressive grandeur and real life are two quite different things.

Carebear pathetic comment.

We are the Horde, we conquer all, with violence. If you don't like that, go emo carebear Alliance.

"PvE is like playing chess against an opponent that makes the same moves everytime"

Migrate to Afganistan or wherever those Al-Quaeda guys live? Chechnya sounds good too. That'll get you your "aggressive leaders". That'll also teach that adolescent dreams of aggressive grandeur and real life are two quite different things.

Guess what in real life i dont really RPG hookers to get my money back

FFS cant you take a break from reality and have a little fun

Im prolly the most left wing socialist liberal you can meet but i love garrosh hellscreams horde i love what it done to the game

believe it or not i can differentiate between real life and fantasy it doesnt make me a bad person just look at that democrat who was demonsied cause she played a orc rogue and she said she liked stabbing people (she won election BTW)

Just cause we like to roleplay as the baddie doesnt make us bad people