A good thing to take out of this season is that nine of our 12 losses were by one possession.

And trust me, I was very sold on this team, but am now much more wary. The offensive line needs SERIOUS working on, we need a long #2 WR so Broyles/TY can work in the slot for the offense to be at its best, and on defense need a complete makeover all around minus Suh/Fairley/Tulloch.

January 1st, 2013, 2:58 pm

Blueskies

QB Coach - Brian Callahan

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pmPosts: 3114

Re: Lions 2012 season

After really giving it some thought, I think the Lions were hampered most by the following two factors:

1) No running game

2) Too many injuries, particularly in the secondary which was already devoid of talent

After really giving it some thought, I think the Lions were hampered most by the following two factors:

1) No running game

2) Too many injuries, particularly in the secondary which was already devoid of talent

In my opinion the running game was the least of the offenses problems. ATL, NO, and DAL all do pretty well with a worse running game and though I agree a running game would make things easier it's not going to stop the terrible mental errors and all stupid fumbles the team makes. The team was 3rd in total offense so they moved the ball, but were the 3rd worst in turnover Diff with -16. The team coughed up the ball 33 times this season, so I see the biggest problem being the discipline and lack of focus. I do agree injuries in the secondary hurt, but the lack of talent is probably the bigger issue on that side of the ball.

January 1st, 2013, 10:32 pm

The Legend

Team President - Rod Wood

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 4972Location: WSU

Re: Lions 2012 season

Blueskies wrote:

After really giving it some thought, I think the Lions were hampered most by the following two factors:

1) No running game

2) Too many injuries, particularly in the secondary which was already devoid of talent

agree with you but would put Awful return coverage and punt team in bw 1 and 2

January 1st, 2013, 10:33 pm

The Legend

Team President - Rod Wood

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 4972Location: WSU

Re: Lions 2012 season

rao wrote:

Blueskies wrote:

After really giving it some thought, I think the Lions were hampered most by the following two factors:

1) No running game

2) Too many injuries, particularly in the secondary which was already devoid of talent

In my opinion the running game was the least of the offenses problems. ATL, NO, and DAL all do pretty well with a worse running game and though I agree a running game would make things easier it's not going to stop the terrible mental errors and all stupid fumbles the team makes. The team was 3rd in total offense so they moved the ball, but were the 3rd worst in turnover Diff with -16. The team coughed up the ball 33 times this season, so I see the biggest problem being the discipline and lack of focus. I do agree injuries in the secondary hurt, but the lack of talent is probably the bigger issue on that side of the ball.

agree to a large degree but when you are passing 700+ times many of which in obvious passing situations you are going to have QB fumbles and INTs. Running game with real runners and a better line could help limit the turnovers.

After really giving it some thought, I think the Lions were hampered most by the following two factors:

1) No running game

2) Too many injuries, particularly in the secondary which was already devoid of talent

In my opinion the running game was the least of the offenses problems. ATL, NO, and DAL all do pretty well with a worse running game and though I agree a running game would make things easier it's not going to stop the terrible mental errors and all stupid fumbles the team makes. The team was 3rd in total offense so they moved the ball, but were the 3rd worst in turnover Diff with -16. The team coughed up the ball 33 times this season, so I see the biggest problem being the discipline and lack of focus. I do agree injuries in the secondary hurt, but the lack of talent is probably the bigger issue on that side of the ball.

agree to a large degree but when you are passing 700+ times many of which in obvious passing situations you are going to have QB fumbles and INTs. Running game with real runners and a better line could help limit the turnovers.

I also agree with you, but I just don't see the running game being the thing that hampered the team the most. Even if the running game was better the team is still most likely to throw 600+ times a season since they are built around Staff and CJ. I wish they could be more like Houston and feature CJ like Houston always has with Andre Johnson.

January 1st, 2013, 11:02 pm

The Legend

Team President - Rod Wood

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 4972Location: WSU

Re: Lions 2012 season

rao wrote:

The Legend wrote:

rao wrote:

Blueskies wrote:

After really giving it some thought, I think the Lions were hampered most by the following two factors:

1) No running game

2) Too many injuries, particularly in the secondary which was already devoid of talent

In my opinion the running game was the least of the offenses problems. ATL, NO, and DAL all do pretty well with a worse running game and though I agree a running game would make things easier it's not going to stop the terrible mental errors and all stupid fumbles the team makes. The team was 3rd in total offense so they moved the ball, but were the 3rd worst in turnover Diff with -16. The team coughed up the ball 33 times this season, so I see the biggest problem being the discipline and lack of focus. I do agree injuries in the secondary hurt, but the lack of talent is probably the bigger issue on that side of the ball.

agree to a large degree but when you are passing 700+ times many of which in obvious passing situations you are going to have QB fumbles and INTs. Running game with real runners and a better line could help limit the turnovers.

I also agree with you, but I just don't see the running game being the thing that hampered the team the most. Even if the running game was better the team is still most likely to throw 600+ times a season since they are built around Staff and CJ. I wish they could be more like Houston and feature CJ like Houston always has with Andre Johnson.

IMO Number 1 biggest thing is what you summarized - discipline, focus - ie things that come down from organization, but to the players this comes mostly from head coach.

Football specific things - No 1 - lack of meaningful running game ie ability to put into good situations for 3rd down, hold leads later in the game, control clock/take pressure off of defense and to pull defenders out of coverage or at least make them hesistate to help open the passing game. No 2 - putrid special teams coverage units, punter and shoddy return game No 3 - lack of depth/talent in secondary

January 2nd, 2013, 12:06 am

Blueskies

QB Coach - Brian Callahan

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pmPosts: 3114

Re: Lions 2012 season

Stats are misleading.

The simple fact is that the Lions played against defenses who, almost universally, used a base package of two deep safeties. The Lions were almost never facing a fully loaded box and they still couldn't run!

They have the best WR in football who is an amazing deep threat, and yet they still couldn't run!

Yeah, statistically, they weren't the worst running team in the league -- only bottom third. But when they actually needed the threat of a running game, it wasn't there.

It escapes me now, but there was some game towards the middle of the season. Everyone was up in arms about them running on 3rd & 5 and not picking it up. Bob Wojo on 97.1 ran the numbers and said that the Lions had opted to run the ball on 3rd & 5 ten times during the season. They never once moved the chains.

When you ask your QB to throw 700+ times there are going to be some bad throws. Some bad snaps and some picks.

If the Lions had even a decent running game, their offense would've been 3x as effective. And they would've won many more games.

Here's a stat for you: Over the last two seasons, when Best played the Lions are 5-1. Without him they are 9-18.

January 2nd, 2013, 12:33 am

sweetd20

Pro Bowl Player

Joined: October 13th, 2005, 9:03 amPosts: 2490

Re: Lions 2012 season

A big problem a lot of the people that don't think the Lions need a better running game is because they love the big plays they saw last year and think that should be the teams identity because they have Stafford and Johnson. The truth is at least 2/3 of the playoff teams are running teams with solid to really good defenses. Wide open offenses are fun to watch but the NFL still comes down to defenses that can make stops and teams that can run between the tackles. How many Super Bowls have Brady and the Pats won since they opened up the offense? Yeah they dominate the regular season but not one Lombardi trophy since that defense had to be rebuilt and no consistant running game.

I said it when they drafted Stafford to maximize him they need to build a balanced team like Aikman had with the Cowboys. If they can get to the point where the offense is just a little more balanced the defense doesn't have to be great but they will need to be better on a consistant basis of getting off the field in those key 3rd down situations.

January 2nd, 2013, 3:30 pm

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 10004Location: Dallas

Re: Lions 2012 season

sweetd20 wrote:

How many Super Bowls have Brady and the Pats won since they opened up the offense? Yeah they dominate the regular season but not one Lombardi trophy since that defense had to be rebuilt and no consistant running game.

They have lost 2 of the last 5 Super Bowls after big plays by Giant WRs right at the end.

BTW - how great were the Giants running game? How bout the Saints? Steelers? Packers? Those are your last five champs.

Last year A. Bradshaw had 72 rushing yards. The year before James Starks had 52 rushing yards to lead the pack. The year before, Pierre Thomas lead the Saints with a whopping 30. Four years ago, Willie Parker lead the Steelers with 53. Five years ago, it was Bradshaw again with 45.

Feel free to see who many yards the winning teams gave up on defense, you will see huge numbers.

A big problem a lot of the people that don't think the Lions need a better running game is because they love the big plays they saw last year and think that should be the teams identity because they have Stafford and Johnson. The truth is at least 2/3 of the playoff teams are running teams with solid to really good defenses. Wide open offenses are fun to watch but the NFL still comes down to defenses that can make stops and teams that can run between the tackles. How many Super Bowls have Brady and the Pats won since they opened up the offense? Yeah they dominate the regular season but not one Lombardi trophy since that defense had to be rebuilt and no consistant running game.

I said it when they drafted Stafford to maximize him they need to build a balanced team like Aikman had with the Cowboys. If they can get to the point where the offense is just a little more balanced the defense doesn't have to be great but they will need to be better on a consistant basis of getting off the field in those key 3rd down situations.

All those playoff teams teams your speaking of other than Houston, Washington, and Minnesota are switching to a big play passing game. All the recent Super Bowl winners are big time passing teams, so I don't think there is anything showing the Lions "need" a better running game. It would be nice if they can correct it and add more variety to their offense, but they can go very far without it. They just need to execute correctly on what they are currently doing.

January 2nd, 2013, 7:24 pm

DJ-B

Pro Bowl Player

Joined: April 5th, 2007, 5:51 pmPosts: 2578

Re: Lions 2012 season

THe Lions problem with a running game is they cant get 1-2 yds when they need to... usually on 3rd or 4th down.

Thats about it. This was illistrated when we were down vs Atlanta (by 9 pts i believe) in the early/mid 4th, and we had 2nd and 1 at the 2 yd line. We could have power rushed 3 times up the middle for to try and get 1 yd, and a new set of downs, to try and power rush another 4 times into the endzone. We could have tried 7 straight power runs (if we got 1 yd in the 1st 3 tries)... vs 1 of the worst Run defenses in all of football.. and we couldnt trust our team to do it. So we lined up 4 wide receives on 2nd, 3rd and 4th down and turn the ball over on downs. I was almost as embarrased at that moment as i was when the final clock ticked down on the 0-16 season.

We dont need a New RB and a bunch of Run 1st OL to win, but we do need to be able to get that 1 yd or we will continue to lose cloose games in the 4th qtr. We would be fine with replacing Peterman and Raiola, and could even make do with Dom for 1 mor eyear if we bring in 2 new starters next year. But I agree, Passing offense is the future of the NFL (duh).

January 2nd, 2013, 8:49 pm

Blueskies

QB Coach - Brian Callahan

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pmPosts: 3114

Re: Lions 2012 season

Quote:

Running and defense doesn't win championships anymore - passing does.

Yes, anyone saying the Lions should go back to three yards and a cloud of dust is a fool.

However, the Lions still need some threat of a running game. When the Lions actually need to run and pick up a yard or two they can't. And teams know this.

The Lions virtually never played against a stacked box. So however bad their running game was in statistics, it's even worse when you adjust for that.

Because the Lions have no threat of a running game, they can't have any sort of a balanced offense. And so they can't score the 30+ points they should be able to.

That's where the problem lies. As soon as an improved running game is mentioned there are too many here that thinks that means a total abandonment of the passing game. The fact is they need more balance to be able to keep teams honest and force them to guess. Those that are calling for an improved running game aren't looking for a 50/50 split, if they run about 65 plays they should be able to get a 39/26 pass to run ratio. That would still put Stafford over 600 attempts but a 100 less than the ridiculous amount that he threw this season.