Huckabee compares same-sex marriage to incest, polygamy

Updated 4/13/10 4:57 p.m.
In an interview with college journalists in New Jersey last week, former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee reportedly compared the push for same-sex marriage to an effort to accommodate drug abuse, polygamy and incest, and he dismissed adoption by gay couples by saying, "Children are not puppies."

In the interview, Perspective reported that he said he backs the Arkansas law barring same-sex couples from adopting or becoming foster parents. "This is not about trying to create statements for people who want to change the basic fundamental definitions of family," Huckabee said. "And always we should act in the best interest of the children, not in the seeming interest of the adults."

"Children are not puppies," he said. "This is not a time to see if we can experiment and find out, how does this work?"

A spokesman for Huckabee's political action committee contested the report as sensationalist and said it distorted Huckabee's views on Michael Steele, which were also discussed in the interview.

In discussing same-sex marriage, the Perspective reported, Huckabee said, "You don't go ahead and accommodate every behavioral pattern that is against the ideal. That would be like saying, well, there are a lot of people who like to use drugs, so let's go ahead and accommodate those who want who use drugs. There are some people who believe in incest, so we should accommodate them. There are people who believe in polygamy, so we should accommodate them."

"Governor Huckabee believes that what people do as individuals in their private lives is their business, but he does not believe we should change the traditional definition of marriage," Hogan Gidley, the executive director of Huck PAC said in an e-mail. "Not only did the young journalism student attempt to sensationalize the Governor's well known and hardly unusual views of same-sex marriage, he also inaccurately reported his views on Michael Steele as GOP chairman - The Governor offered his support and didn't "Rip into Steele" as his article asserted."

Hogan continued: "I would ask that he release the unedited tape of their conversation. Governor Huckabee had a candid and frank conversation with the group about health care, education, the economy and national security, while the young journalism student, instead, chose to focus on the issue of same-sex marriage and grossly distort the Governor's views."

In response, Michael Tracey, the student who wrote the story on the interview, posted audio of portions of the interview online.

"You will see that Huckabee's claim that his words were 'grossly distorted' are patently ridiculous," Tracey said in an e-mail. "Notice in his statement he never alleged that he was misquoted; that is because the audio corroborates all our reporting. He simply had a problem with the framing and emphasis of the questions."

Tracey started an “alternative” student magazine at the College this year. Most of the writers are also members of the College Democrats, College ACLU, etc. The Perspective is funded by Campus Progress, a national organization that aims to make students’ “progressive voices” heard. The Perspective is not the College’s main media organization and has a minute readership on campus. It’s more of a joke among students than anything else. The site’s about page reads: “We strive to offer an eclectic take on this new decade, which has brought with it a bewildering, frustrating, but nevertheless satisfying collegiate existence.”

Tracey is not a journalist. Poke around the site a little more and you won't be surprised that the Perspective's credibility is being questioned.

wjfreeman1: One of the main reasons a lot of people oppose gay marriage and homosexuality is for religious reasons. I have to show the truth that homosexuality is not a sin. Yes, it may be irrelevant when it comes to civil rights and the law. However, it is still the driving force in many people's views and attitudes towards homosexuality.

Sure there's civil unions, but a simple history lesson will tell you that separate is not equal. Why do we need to create a separation, especially when gay marriage does not affect your heterosexual marriage in any way? Your side can never tell me how exactly gay marriage affect your straight marriage.

Second, you mention that marriage is an old institution that hasn't changed. Here, you are wrong again. Marriage was redefined numerous times in the past.

We redefined marriage when we abolished polygamy. We redefined marriage when we allowed divorce. We redefined marriage when we stopped giving dowries. We redefined marriage when we stopped viewing wives as the physical property of husbands. We redefined marriage when we allowed interracial couples to get married. At one time, the traditional view of marriage was a white man and white woman, black man and black woman, etc.

We constantly redefine and tweak our laws to better fit an ever-changing society. If we didn't need to redefine, the first congress would have been the last. They would have set the laws forever and that would have been good enough.

There is no harm in allowing gays and lesbians to get married. This allows them to be equal to heterosexuals. Gays and lesbians are the same people with the same status as heterosexuals, with the only difference being whom they are sexually attracted to.

laloooji: The problem is, you are comparing two totally different things. You are free to push for polygamy if that's what you want. Go there and prove that polygamy is not harmful nor is it wrong. But if you want to discuss polygamy, the forums ==>

Here, we are talking about homosexuality. We have already proven that gay marriage is neither wrong nor harmful.

You are implying that gay marriage leads to polygamy. That is false. Polygamy is a completely separate thing, and people can push for it whether or not gay marriage is legalized. It has no relevance to gay marriage, nor does gay marriage lead to polygamy.

Gay marriage has been legal in MA for 6 years, and in various other countries, and i don't see those places pushing for polygamy. In fact, the more anti-gay places, like the Middle East and Africa, have polygamy legalized. So by observation, the more anti-gay a location is, the more likely polygamy is going to be legalized there.

Jordan48: Once again, going through your post of fancy words, you are basically claiming i'm "a lier", yet you fail to refute any of my posts, evidence, or links. You claim "the changing of God's word", yet your side is the one who is doing that, as my posts and links have proven. The problem with the anti-gay side is, you take verses out of context. This is evident in your post, where you take a few lines from Romans, while ignoring both the surrounding text and the historical times.

Let us examine the proper interpretation of Romans.

If taken out of context, this passage seems to condemn homosexuals. However, when Romans 1:26-27 is considered within the context of Romans 1:16 through Romans 2:16, the Scriptures clearly present a different teaching.

Paul was writing to the church in Rome. The Roman church had become troubled by divisions related to spiritual pride. Paul was addressing the Christians in Rome and teaching about the pagans in Rome. After declaring the power of Christ's gospel to save all, he pointed out that the religious people of Rome had refused to even acknowledge GOD as one of their many gods. They had turned their backs on the one true living God and worshiped handmade idols. Paul explained that as a result of their idolatry, every part of their lives had become corrupt and vile.

Paul then told the Roman Christians that they were not to judge others. To judge others is to condemn yourself (Romans 2:1). Christians are to love others out of their brokenness and into the healing wholeness that is found in Jesus Christ.

The Greek word Paul used, that has been translated in our Bibles as "natural/unnatural", relates to that which is against one's own inherent nature (i.e., heterosexuals engaging in homosexual acts). It was also related to Paul's concept of what was culturally acceptable. The same Greek word is used in I Cor. 11:14-15 in reference to correct hair length for men and women and in Gal. 2:15 in reference to Jews and Gentiles who were such by "nature." Paul emphasized that IDOLATRY (not homosexuality) was the evil which resulted in temple prostitution, sadomasochism, and lack of regard for others.

It would help if you knew what the culture was like back then. In those times, male-male intercourse was a result of idol worship. Back then, it was a common practice of cult priests and priestesses to submit to sexual acts with either gender as part of the worship of their deities. Therefore, such acts were considered sinful and debauchery. It would be the same if it were hetero people involved in cultic sex, prostitution or sexual abuse of minors.

Now I'm pretty sure that two guys engaging in sex these days are NOT idol worshipers. In fact, 99% of the time, it is a physical act of love; just like any hetero couples.

Firstly, at no point I am trying to say homosexuality is wrong. It is between two consenting adults and what they do is their business. But marriage is between a man and a woman as friendship is between any two persons and so are many such definitions for relationships. Polygamy is a choice and it is between two or more consenting adults. Why do you care if it creates jealousy? If marriage can be between one man and another man (or one woman and another), it can be between one man and two women. Who defines it? Arguments can not presented based on convenience of one's preferences.

When something new like the issue of gay marriages started - before you jump at this let me clarify, homosexuality might be many centuries old but such people wanting to call their union/friendship as marriage is very recent - it was given a name and it is called civil union with all rights. So, go with it. Why unnecessarily try to change something that is old and established.

Just because some people choose to live their life one way - by nature, by choice or for any other reason - does not mean every body else should accept it.

The invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and four footed beasts, and creeping things.

Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through their lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves. Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

For this cause God gave them up to vile affections; for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lusts one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of that error which was meet.

And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient.

I do not derive any satisfaction in debating with one who is deaf and blind, for what gain is there? It is like preaching to a post or a rock. It is my fervent prayer to God that He will remove the scales from your blind eyes and unstop your ears so that you might both see and hear the truth. May the infinite mercy and grace of my holy Lord, the God of glory, be upon you!

First, separate is not equal. We learned this long ago. There is no reason to separate out gay marriage from straight marriage, especially considering the fact that gay marriage does not affect your heterosexual marriage in any way.

Second, the slippery slope argument falls flat.

Let us take the 4 common arguments: beastiality, pedophilia, incest, and polygamy. First off, all 4 of these are fetishes, and irrelevant to homosexuality, which is a sexual orientation. Let me distinguish this for you using incest as an example. If a guy into incest is straight, he'll choose his sister, and if he's gay, he'll choose his brother. See the distinguishment? Now pedophilia and beastiality will never be legal, because both are non-consenting and harmful, whereas homosexuality is 2 loving consenting adults that is not wrong or harmful. Incest, also has been shown to lead to genetic defects, so that is also out of the question. Incest also is a fetish, not a sexual orientation. I have never seen a person exclusively attracted to their brothers/sisters etc. Polygamy also is a choice. No one can choose who they would or will be attracted to, but they CAN choose to be in more than one relationship with more than one person at the same time. Polygamy can be damaging, as it can cause jealousies and resentments among the participants and any children produced. Those 4 fetishes can be seen to be harmful and wrong, whereas gay marriage is neither harmful nor wrong.

As much as I dont agree with Republican ideas, racist views and Religious zealots, I have to agree with the idea behind what Huckabee says. Gays and Lesbians can do anything they want, live together, die together and whatever - but why call that marriage? It is civil union and be happy with that. There is no need to bring bible and religion into it. No matter which way anyone wants to spin it, a child needs a father and mother. Because many children loose one or both parents, it can not be used as an argument for gay adoptions. That is the way nature made it. Marrying a horse may sound preposterous but incest and polygamy have been practiced in the past. So, there is a point in asking why not make it legal, especially polygamy..

Sad thing is gays and lesbians try to portray non-gay and non-lesbian people as abnormal because they are not...

As much as I dont agree with Republican ideas, racist views and Religious zealots, I have to agree with the idea behind what Huckabee says. Gays and Lesbians can do anything they want, live together, die together and whatever - but why call that marriage? It is civil union and be happy with that. There is no need to bring bible and religion into it. No matter which way anyone wants to spin it, a child needs a father and mother. Because many children loose one or both parents, it can not be used as an argument for gay adoptions. That is the way nature made it. Marrying a horse may sound preposterous but incest and polygamy have been practiced in the past. So, there is a point in asking why not make it legal, especially polygamy..

Sad thing is gays and lesbians try to portray non-gay and non-lesbian people as abnormal because they are not...

Jordan48: From your posts, it looks like your are borderline trolling. But i will show you why trolling fails on this subject.

For those of you that don't know what a troll is, they basically are posters that take a side on any sensitive topic (religion, sexuality, etc) and post to rile up and anger other posters for their own satisfaction and fun. They usually dance around a central idea while ignoring all evidence (since their primary motive is to incite anger, not prove anything). Other troll behavior includes twisting your words out of context, name-calling, or doing anything that may get a rise out of you.

The best way to own a troll is to get under their skin or ignore them. When a troll realizes he can't incite anger in people and or get a rise out of them, it irks him. They keep trying, but its fun watching them in desperation as they throw everything at you trying to get any kind of rise. They lose even more, because for each troll, it gives the pro gay marriage side the chance to spread facts and information about homosexuality, to get rid of ignorance. It's a win/win situation for us.

Remember, trolls can't win unless they incite anger. Merely getting responses is not a successful troll, since anyone can do that. What makes trolling unique is the ability to incite anger, and without doing that, they become useless. So to all posters here, do prove them wrong with facts, but do not let them incite anger.

I will also bump up my other posts constantly, to make sure the facts about homosexuality are always on top.

Jordan48: In your very next post after that, you try to become fancy with words. But when we decipher those words, your only argument against my proof was "i am a blind pervert" You couldn't refute any of the evidence nor proof i provided. You call me a liar and deceiver, yet fail to rebut any of my posts below =)

If you really want to open your eyes to God and Jesus Christ, you will preach love, tolerance, and respect, not twist God's words to spread discrimination and hate. God created homosexuals (scientific links even show brain differences, which you didn't address, not that it matters because you will merely claim it's false without any evidence or argument), God loves them, and supports them. Be a real Christian and preach his real Word. =)

Jordan48: In your next post, you talk about abomination. Let's examine that and prove why that did not condemn homosexuality. To do this, we will look at the Leviticus verses you pulled out of context.

Leviticus 18:22:
"You shall not lie with a male as those who lie with a female; it is an abomination."

Leviticus 20:13:
"If a man lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination and they shall surely be put to death."

Both of these verses refer to heterosexuals who participated in fertility rituals in order to guarantee good crops and healthy flocks, not homosexuals, there is absolutely no mention of sexual orientation or homosexuality. Also, the word abomination was used for anything that was considered to be religiously unclean or dealing with any type idol worship.

The Hebrew word "toevah" was used in Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13. "Toevah" has been translated in our Bibles as "abomination" or "detestable". The "toevah" was used throughout the Old Testament for activity involving ethnic contamination and religious idolatry. "Toevah" refers to things that were ritually unclean - like eating pork.

It is significant that another Hebrew word, "zimah," also translated "abomination," which means intrinsic evil or evil by its very nature, was not used in Leviticus 18:22, or Leviticus 20:13.

It is also significant that female homosexual relationships are not mentioned in the old testament. That's because they aren't talking about sexual orientation, they are talking about idolatrous practices.

Hence, Leviticus is not condemning homosexual sex between 2 consenting adults. It is condemning the fertility rituals and idolatry, where homosexual sex acts were done to worship idols and other Gods.

Jordan48: The thing is, i've proven that homosexuality is not condemned in the Bible :) You say it was condemned throughout most of the ages, but unfortunately, mostly of the ages also considered women 2nd class citizens, condoned slavery, and persecuted people because of their religious beliefs. Because something existed majority of human history doesn't make it right. In fact, only in the last few hundred years did we as people have grown up.

"The Hebrew word for "abomination" actually means "against cultural practices"; it does not mean "God's condemnation." One must read Leviticus, as well as the other chapters of the Bible, in its historical context.

Posted by: binaryboy"

Both the Old Testament and New Testament are clear in describing homosexual relationships as unlawful marriages under jewish religious law not merely cultural norms. It's actually one of the few laws gentile Christians are instructed to keep in correspondence between Paul and the Jerusalem church.

Someone needs to remind this religitard that polygamy and incest are crimes in the United States. Also point out that it was heterosexuals from the south that returned the Russian boy and ceased Russian adoptions. Not gay people.

@ Jordan48 - Another dumber than dirt, flat-earth "christian" spewing nonsensical biblical quotes with no relevance to the issues at hand. What is the "greatest commandment?" Certainly not siting in judgment of others --- grow a heart and while you are at it, grow up!

QUOTE: "@ Jordan48 - you are mocking the fact that gays and lesbians are beating and killed because of who they are? And then you claim the moral high ground because of a purported belief in God. If that's your understanding of God, you are in great error not to mention in violation of the New Testament's love commandment. Shame on you for your evil. Posted by: wjfreeman1 | April 13, 2010 1:07 PM"
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I pray that you show me where I have taught hate and not love? Where have I condoned or justified the murder of men? Would you condemn the messenger and not HE who sent him? Does the servant but speak of that which his Master has taught him? Does the child not merely repeat that which his Father has taught him? Condemn not me, but condemn Him who has sent me, for I bear witness to the truth, yet I fear that it is in vain, for you do not love the truth.

I boldly declare unto you and all men, that my heavenly father loves you (and all men)and desires only the best things for you. For it is written: "For God so loved the world (men) that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (Jn 3:16)

Comment: Ref: shadow_man | April 13, 2010 4:15 AM QUOTE: "As an example proving that homosexuality is not a sin, let us examine Corinthians, and how it was taken out of context."
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It is written that the natural (carnal) man does not discern the word of God, for the word of God is Spiritually discerned. But the Spiritual man discerneth all things of God, for they are Spiritually discerned. Would you now become a blind teacher of the blind, perverting the Word of God to fit conveniently into your own theology?

Please tell me of your conversion into the body of Christ, that I might know the author of your errant theology. For I was called, not of myself, or of any good deed which I performed in my flesh, but through the grace and mercy of a loving God, by faith in Christ Jesus, my Lord and sovereign King, the redeemer of my soul. Not by the performance of the law, but by the infinite mercy of He who is the author of my faith. I pray that you share with me and all who read these words, when did He, who formed the worlds, declare in an audible voice to your hearing, as a father speaketh to a son, "With a mighty right arm have I delivered thee from bondage, for this day have I put all thy sins away!" Thereafter did He confirm His promise to me by signs and wonders, bearing witness of the Son of God, who died upon the tree at Galgotha, for the sins of all who will beleive and repent, for salavation is a gift of God, not of works, lest any man boast in himself. I bear witness to the truth, but you are a liar and a deceiver. My Lord rebuke thee!

@ Jordan48 - you are mocking the fact that gays and lesbians are beating and killed because of who they are? And then you claim the moral high ground because of a purported belief in God. If that's your understanding of God, you are in great error not to mention in violation of the New Testament's love commandment. Shame on you for your evil.

QUOTE: "The Hebrew word for "abomination" actually means "against cultural practices"; it does not mean "God's condemnation." One must read Leviticus, as well as the other chapters of the Bible, in its historical context." binaryboy | April 13, 2010 9:35 AM
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The original word "abomination" (and abominable) was "to'eba" as used in the book of Leviticus 18:22, 26, 27 is defined as follows: detestable thing, loathsome thing, abomination: abominable; abominable things...

Of course you are at liberty to water its' meaning down so that those who choose to practice such things might be comforted or eased in their conscience. Yet, their guilt remains.

QUOTE: "Gays are being beaten, shot at, sent to the hospital, killed. In the Middle East, they are killing gays among other groups out of hatred. Is this what we want America to become? Do we want America to revert back to the 1960's when groups were killed and segregated against for simply no good reason? Do we want to follow the ways of the Middle East and Al Queda? Let's push forward, it's time to end bigotry, discrimination, hate, and ignorance. This is modern America, not the Dark Ages." Shadow_Man
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God Forbid! It is written; "The ways of men seem right, but they lead to destruction." The laws of God were established by God, not men. It is the Almighty and sovereign God who judges rightly, not men. I would that men received enlightenment from God and not of some "politically correct" philosophy of men.

He who claims that he murders in the name of God, violates one of the commandments of God! He who hates his brother serves not God, but the prince of darkness of this world. If the practice of homosexuality was good, why then is it condemned by God through the writings of the Apostles and the prophets? and condemned by the laws of men throughout the ages?

But, if men would be a law unto themselves, than do you not make the laws of God of no affect? For men who commit murders, adultery, thefts, and much more, do they not justify unto themselves their own acts which are contrary to the laws of men and God?

Wisdom does not come through the accumulation of knowledge, but through the knowledge of Him who has created all things, both seen and unseen. If my brother sins a sin, does my love for him condemn him, or should I rebuke him so that he might understand that the sin, if it remains, shall condemn him before God? If he declares that it is not a sin in his heart, then shall God judge him, not I.

The Hebrew word for "abomination" actually means "against cultural practices"; it does not mean "God's condemnation." One must read Leviticus, as well as the other chapters of the Bible, in its historical context.

The longstanding consensus of the behavioral and social sciences and the health and mental health professions is that homosexuality per se is a normal and positive variation of human sexual orientation.

Thus, mental health professionals and researchers have long recognized that being homosexual poses no inherent obstacle to leading a happy, healthy, and productive life, and that the vast majority of gay and lesbian people function well in the full array of social institutions and interpersonal relationships.

Gays are being beaten, shot at, sent to the hospital, killed. In the Middle East, they are killing gays among other groups out of hatred. Is this what we want America to become? Do we want America to revert back to the 1960's when groups were killed and segregated against for simply no good reason? Do we want to follow the ways of the Middle East and Al Queda? Let's push forward, it's time to end bigotry, discrimination, hate, and ignorance. This is modern America, not the Dark Ages.

As an example proving that homosexuality is not a sin, let us examine Corinthians, and how it was taken out of context.

I Corinthians 6:9-11
Let us examine that very closely.

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [malakoi], nor homosexual offenders [arsenokoites], nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.

First of all, before we address this line, let us consider one thing. Supposedly taken from a 2000+ year old book, understand that the word "homosexual" was not coined until 1869 by Austrian-born novelist Karl-Maria Kertbeny. So how it happens to be included in a true reading of the particular biblical passage should make you ponder how accurate the interpretation actually is. So man changing the words of the Bible to conveniently spread hate? I think so.

Now onto the interpretation, i've included the original Greek words as well where it's relevant.

Paul was attempting to educate the new Christians in Corinth as to what Godly living was all about. In verses 9-10, he listed ways of living that were not compatible with a Christ-centered life. In verse 11, Paul reminded them that they had been saved out of those destructive ways. There are two Greek words in I Corinthians 6:9, which sometimes are translated with a homosexual connotation.

First word, "malakoi" or "malakos" - it literally means soft or mushy; it can mean spineless, wishy-washy or without backbone. "Malakoi" was used four other times in the New Testament and it always meant "soft." The context of I Corinthians seems to imply a moral softness or decadence, a failure to stand up for what is right and godly. It is significant that for several hundred years there was no sexual connotation assigned to this word.

Second word, "arsenokoitai" or "arsenokoites" - it literally means, "males having sex." Early commentaries on I Corinthians related "arsenokoitai" to male temple prostitutes and to men having sex with boys. (Idolatrous prostitution and pedophilia are always wrong for those seeking to honor God.)

Homosexual relationships were known in the Greco-Roman culture of Paul's day. The Greek word commonly used in reference to adult male same sex partners was "arrenokoites." Paul did not use this word. Instead, he created his own, "arsenokoitai." If Paul had intended to condemn all adult male same sex partners, he would have used the common word for it.

The National Library of Medicine pubs confirm that sexual orientation is natural, biologically induced in the first trimester of pregnancy, morally neutral, immutable, neither contagious nor learned, bearing no relation to an individuals ability to form deep and lasting relationships, to parent children, to work or to contribute to society.

From the American Psychological Association: homosexuality is normal; homosexual relationships are normal.

The American Academy of Pediatrics, American Psychological Asociation and American Psychiatric Asociation have endorsed civil marriage for same-sex couples because marriage strengthens mental and physical health and longevity of couples, and provides greater legal and financial security for children, parents and seniors.

For those of you claiming homosexuality is a "lifestyle", that is a false and ignorant statement. Homosexuality is not a choice. Just like you don't choose the color of your skin, you cannot choose whom you are sexually attracted to. If you can, sorry, but you are not heterosexual, you are bi-sexual. Virtually all major psychological and medical experts agree that sexual orientation is NOT a choice. Most gay people will tell you its not a choice. Common sense will tell you its not a choice. While science is relatively new to studying homosexuality, studies tend to indicate that its biological.

There is overwhelming scientific evidence that homosexuality is not a choice. Sexual orientation is generally a biological trait that is determined pre-natally, although there is no one certain thing that explains all of the cases. "Nurture" may have some effect, but for the most part it is biological.

And it should also be noted that:
"It is worth noting that many medical and scientific organizations do believe it is impossible to change a person's sexual orientation and this is displayed in a statement by American Academy of Pediatrics, American Counseling Association, American Association of School Administrators, American Federation of Teachers, American Psychiatric Association, American Psychological Association, American School Health Association, Interfaith Alliance Foundation, National Association of School Psychologists, National Association of Social Workers, and National Education Association."

To those of you using the Bible as a weapon against homosexuality, you are wrong. Homosexuality is not a sin. The Bible is constantly being taken out of context to support anti-gay views. Scholars who have studied the Bible in context of the times and in relation to other passages have shown those passages (Leviticus, Corinthians, Romans, etc) have nothing to do with homosexuality. These passages often cherry-picked while ignoring the rest of the Bible. The sins theses passages are referring to are idolatry, Greek temple sex worship, prostitution, pederasty with teen boys, and rape, not homosexuality or two loving consenting adults.

Thats why Jesus never mentions it as well. There is nothing immoral, wrong, or sinful about being gay. Jesus, however, clearly states he HATES hypocrites. If you preach goodness, then promote hate and twist the words of the Bible, you are a hypocrite, and will be judged and sent to hell. Homosexuals will not go to hell, hypocrites will.

This is very similar to the religious bigots of the past, where they took Bible passages to condone slavery, keep women down, and used Bible passages to claim blacks as curses who should be enslaved by the white man. People used God to claim that blacks marrying whites was unnatural, and not of God's will.

QUOTE: "Homosexuality is a natural occurrence, but it is not a normal one; just like down syndrome and other related illness." keesvan
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Actually, homosexuality is not natural, for it is contrary to the natural law. In truth, homosexuality is not a genetic malformation, or a presupposed condition, but a spiritual promiscuity which is rooted in the soul. I would quote scriptural doctrine to you in support of these claims, but due principally the fact that you are carnal (spiritually blind), you would reject the truth.

Actually, you would be wrong in both of your arguments. Foremost, I would rejoice if you entered into eternal life, for I desire that no man enters into eternal condemnation. I would not that my worst enemy enter therein.

Have you not read that Hell was not made for men, but was made for the devil and his angels? Yet, it enlarges itself daily so that it can accomodate all those men who choose to enter therein. For they have chosen death instead of eternal life.

Have you not read in the writings of the prophets of God in the Old Testament that the chosen people of God, the Jews, many will be saved during the last days, before the Second Coming of the Messiah? Even that all Israel will be saved? For they will proclaim; "Blessed is he who cometh in the name of the Lord."

Abrahams marriage to Keturah, after the death of Sarah would not even now violate the laws of this day, for under the law of our land, if a man's wife dies, he is at liberty to marry another lawfully! Throughout the old testament, down through Solomon, the great King, men took unto themselves wives. Solomon had many wives and concubines. But, through the ages, this practice was changed and our laws even now prohibit the practice of polygamy in many cultures and among many modern societies.

The practice of Homosexuality has always been a scourge and a shameful thing, rebuffed by many societies and nations! It is clearly condemned under God's law, for He declares that it is an abomination, both in the Old and New Testament! I do not desire to offend, but merely declare the truth, for I do not hate those who are twisted and blind, acting in open defiance of that which is good and decent.

I would have mentioned Abrahams third wife, Keturah, in my rebuff (of maggot) but I did not feel that it was relevant to his errant claim that Abraham was a polygamist or that he had four wives. Abraham had a legitimate wife, Sarah.

Nothing in the scriptures declare that Abraham "married" Hagar, but of course the customs of traditional marriage have changed down through the years, from the traditions of one culture to another. The scriptures merely declare that Abraham went in unto Hagar, Sarahs hand maid, and she conceived!

Even though Abraham had already received the promise of God that Sarah would conceive and bare seed of Abraham, we find that Sarah decided that she would help God fulfill the promise by giving Abraham her hand maid Hagar. This is so typical of the nature of man today, who allows flesh to enter in, in their desire to fulfill a promise of God! God needs no help from man in fulfilling HIS promises.

But when Hagar conceived, jealously entered in. I have never heard anyone claim that Hagar was the wife of Abraham, nor have I found any reference to this in the Holy Scriptures. But I will not declare unequivicably that God did not consider this union to be lawful. The customs of the time obviously differ from our own in many respects.

Suffice it to say that Hagar conceived and bore Abraham a son, Ismael. We must understand that Sarah was well past the time of women in child bearing. Abraham was in his 90's. Because of jealousy, Sarah compelled Abraham to cast Hagar out, along with Ismael, his first born. God allowed this, which was much to Abrahams hurt, because Ismael was not the seed of promise.

Yet, God fulfilled His promise to Abraham in the conception by Sarah and the birth of the child of promise Isaac. The birth of Isaac was merely a foreshadowing of the promise fulfilled in the birth of Christ, for HE was the seed of promise, but much more than the similtude of Isaac, so much more.

We see this foreshadowing in the circumstance of Abraham, when God told him to take his son Isaac, whom he loved dearly, and offer him upon the alter as a living sacrifice to HIMSELF. For it was already foreordained by God that HE would offer up HIS only begotten son for the remission of sin for all men, so that whosoever should beleive and accept the gift of eternal life, which is through faith in Jesus Christ, the perfect blood offering.

For without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin. This is why, when John the Baptist saw Jesus coming, he declared; "Behold the lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world." For it is written; Those who hath the Son hath life, and those who hath not the son, hath not life. (speaking of eternal life)

"No, it's not, because those "ancient" views can still be homophobic and wrong.

Posted by: presto668"

Only when the one making that charge is attempting to misrepresent the beliefs of others.
The view of Huckabee and most religious makes no negative comment upon homosexuals (perhaps on political activism of or on their behalf), but in affirmation of a family model that has been the social norm for millenia and to which homosexuals do not subscribe to.

"Why don't you show me documentation of ONE case in which gay adoptive parents have molested their child? Surely you must have proof, otherwise you wouldn't make such an ignorant statement.

Posted by: maggots"

Frank Lombard. It's a really terrible case so I'll let you do the full research. He was a Duke University researcher and homosexual that abused his 5-year old adopted African-American boy. His "committed" live-in homosexual partner knew of the abuse, but did not molest the child himself. Lombard offered the child to local child molesters.

For more on the topic, Phillip Jenkins wrote extensively on all matters of pedophilia and pederasty. In his book Pedophiles and Priests, he addresses studies that show homosexuals are three times as likely to be pedophiles.

Proponents of this issue have taken an extreme and to date unfounded position by linking and attempting to make equivalent irrefutable inherent human characteristics that no one would or could reasonably argue against, such as one's race, ethnicity and sex, with other human behavioral characteristics that have not been and are NOT currently proven as predestined by birth. You all know full well that there has not been and there is not currently definitive scientific consensus which proves that those who opt to live in the so-called gay or bisexual lifestyles are doing so not by choice or environment but are doing so because they are so-called "born that way." We have heard time and time again ad nausea arguments and attempts to bootstrap this profound (and unfounded) argument to the historic Civil Rights movement, including attempting to characterize those that point out the lack of definitive evidence as people who are less than your intellect or lacking somewhat in moral character. The plain, unvarnished and irrefutable truth of the matter is that there was not and there is not as of this writing ANY DEFINITIVE PROOF to support your parroted claim that homosexual or bisexual behavior is as much an inherent human characteristic as another's race, color or ethnic origin. And all of the self-rationalizations do not supplant the complete lack of definitive scientific proof. Again, truth is not created simply by repeating an assertion over and over and over again.

Posted by: michaelsmith21 | April 12, 2010 6:56 PM

It's a pleasure, michael, watching your bigotry sink into the sunset.

You know how this will end. Just as the Civil Rights movement ended. One more bastion of prejudice, fear and ignorance gets battered to nothing. Common sense and basic decency prevail. The protestations, lies and dread just make you look appropriately small.

As a conservative voter, I could not disagree with former governor Huckabee more. Indeed children are not puppies. Children are not factory overstock either. It is simply immoral to deny a loving, same-sex couple the same opportunity as a heterosexual couple to adopt, raise, and love a child. This is especially true when one considers that the remaining option is temporary foster care or an orphanage.

Dare I say that in light of the analogies that Governor Huckabee employed to support his flawed argument opposing same-sex marriage, the man is a bigoted troglodyte unfit for higher office.

"Hmmm. So when Abraham took four wives, it had absolutely nothing to do with "personal pleasure".

Posted by: maggots"

Actually, Abraham had 3 wives: Sarah, Hagar and Keturah. Sarah was his first wife and it was Sarah that told him to marry Hagar _not out of selfish pleasures_, but so that he and the overall family may have heirs. Sarah later was able to have children and Keturah was married after Sarah died.
Many of the "polygamous" marriages in the bible were done to protect the unwed women in society. It was custom to marry your wife if your brother died so that she may have a home and family to support her.

It's important to view the biblical stories within their time. God reveals himself in time and in the language, culture and accidents that allow for man to know, love and follow His message. The lessons exist forever within the proper context of the stories which similarly serve a role in preparing the world for his greatest revelation and eventual return.

cprferry:
"If his views are "outdated" and framed in religious teachings and confirmed by ancient, universal teachings on the the compatibility of genders, then it is inappropriate and slanderous to claim he is a homophobic."

No, it's not, because those "ancient" views can still be homophobic and wrong.

QUOTE: "Hmmm. So when Abraham took four wives, it had absolutely nothing to do with "personal pleasure". Abraham did not have a single thought of sexual enjoyment when he added these extra women to his harem.

What about all the slaves that the biblical fathers kept? How did they enjoy "true freedom"? They would have been lost in a "hedonistic culture" that forced them to live in dignity and independence.

Why is it that these men that hold up as religious role models show the same desires for personal pleasure and wish fulfillment as the rest of us secular sinners."
============================
Try to get your facts right, will you? Abrham had a wife named Sarai (later called Sarah). Sarah had ahandmaid by the name of Hagar. Sarah was approximatelty 86 years old and could not conceive. At the behest of Sarah, Abraham went into Hagar and she conceived Ismael. Later, Sarah coceived the child of promise, which was Isaac.

Abraham did not have four (4) wives. Hagar was later driven out of the encampment because of Sarah.

All these Christian fundamentalists who are against abortion and against birth control by artificial means -- did it ever occur to them that perhaps God intended homosexuality to be one means of natural birth control.

I know many gays and lesbians who are fantastic loving parents (and partners). I work in foster care and wish we had more of them to provide loving homes for children whose birth parents think nothing more of having another child they cannot care for than getting a new puppy.

"Well, if two men or two women can marry each other, I want to marry my cousin. WTF is wrong with that?!"

----------------------------

Actually, you can now in most states. It was an issue of birth defects from inbreeding, and has been scientifically disproven. Why are you worried about gay marriage? How does it affect you, other than your false prurient interests?

QUOTE: "So it is in the best interest of these children to float homeless and without loved ones throughout the foster system until it kicks them out at age 18?"
============================
The obvious conclusion you offer, in your comment, is let us cast these little ones into the nest of the perverted and sexually deviant, it's better to do that than to hold out hope that they will come to know a somewhat moral existence.

Historically speaking, all of those societies that legitmized or allowed open homosexuality were over thrown. Enjoy your deluded liberal lifestyle of tolerance and immorality while you can, for in due course, this nation too, will be over thrown and the list of all those who are registered homosexuals will be gathered up by our conquerors and systematically slaughtered.

Are you prepared to bet your life and the lives of your loved ones that I am wrong? Go ahead and bet then! Good luck with that! By all means let us be "politically correct" and to hell with morality

******************************************

Why don't you show me documentation of ONE case in which gay adoptive parents have molested their child? Surely you must have proof, otherwise you wouldn't make such an ignorant statement.

Posted by: RIVASF1@WESTAT.COM | Homosexuality is a natural occurrence, but it is not a normal one; just like down syndrome and other related illness. ****** Perhaps homosexuality is more like being left handed. There are fewer lefties, but they're not second class citizens or 'ill'. Grouping homosexuality with "illnesses" is unfounded circularly reasoned bias.

QUOTE: "So it is in the best interest of these children to float homeless and without loved ones throughout the foster system until it kicks them out at age 18?"
============================
The obvious conclusion you offer, in your comment, is let us cast these little ones into the nest of the perverted and sexually deviant, it's better to do that than to hold out hope that they will come to know a somewhat moral existence.

Historically speaking, all of those societies that legitmized or allowed open homosexuality were over thrown. Enjoy your deluded liberal lifestyle of tolerance and immorality while you can, for in due course, this nation too, will be over thrown and the list of all those who are registered homosexuals will be gathered up by our conquerors and systematically slaughtered. Hitler did it! After all, satan hates homosexuals almost as bad as he hates Christians.

Are you prepared to bet your life and the lives of your loved ones that I am wrong? Go ahead and bet then! Good luck with that! By all means let us be "politically correct" and to hell with morality!

However, when one promotes a right to privacy and personal pleasure as the religion of modern hedonism does, it erodes social bonds and a spirit of service and respect. The inevitable result is not true freedom, but the creature of injustice as some pursue their own personal pleasures at the expense of others. (Even so-called self-abusing crimes have a public aftermath and larger consequences.)
And no amount of social engineering or legal structures can fully address those crimes, in fact many times those systems and structures often erode humanity and society to support further injustice.

Posted by: cprferry | April 12, 2010 9:57 PM | Report abuse

*****************************************
Hmmm. So when Abraham took four wives, it had absolutely nothing to do with "personal pleasure". Abraham did not have a single thought of sexual enjoyment when he added these extra women to his harem.

What about all the slaves that the biblical fathers kept? How did they enjoy "true freedom"? They would have been lost in a "hedonistic culture" that forced them to live in dignity and independence.

Why is it that these men that hold up as religious role models show the same desires for personal pleasure and wish fulfillment as the rest of us secular sinners.

QUOTE: "So it is in the best interest of these children to float homeless and without loved ones throughout the foster system until it kicks them out at age 18?"
============================
The obvious conclusion you offer, in your comment, is let us cast these little ones into the nest of the perverted and sexually deviant, it's better to do that than to hold out hope that they will come to know a somewhat moral existence.

Historically speaking, all of those societies that legitmized or allowed open homosexuality were over thrown. Enjoy your deluded liberal lifestyle of tolerance and immorality while you can, for in due course, this nation too, will be over thrown and the list of all those who are registered homosexuals will be gathered up by our conquerors and systematically slaughtered.

Are you prepared to bet your life and the lives of your loved ones that I am wrong? Go ahead and bet then! Good luck with that! By all means let us be "politically correct" and to hell with morality!

QUOTE: "So it is in the best interest of these children to float homeless and without loved ones throughout the foster system until it kicks them out at age 18?"
============================
The obvious conclusion you offer, in your comment, is let us cast these little ones into the nest of the perverted and sexually deviant, it's better to do that than to hold out hope that they will come to know a somewhat moral existence.

Historically speaking, all of those societies that legitmized or allowed open homosexuality were over thrown. Enjoy your deluded liberal lifestyle of tolerance and immorality while you can, for in due course, this nation too, will be over thrown and the list of all those who are registered homosexuals will be gathered up by our conquerors and systematically slaughtered. Are you prepared to bet your life and the lives of your loved ones that I am wrong? Go ahead and bet then! Good luck with that!

Posted by: RIVASF1@WESTAT.COM -- there is one thing that is crystal clear: the majority of the human population is heterosexual and everything in social relationship and life is based on this fact. There is a purpose for the human race to have two different sexes, and that is continuity of mankind. Homosexuality is a natural occurrence, but it is not a normal one; just like down syndrome and other related illness. Let's just not be entangled in that so-called political correctness. You want to have a same sex partner? fine, go for it; but there are certain limitations imposed by nature and it has to be accepted.

______

No one is disputing or complaining about "limitations imposed by nature" - only about limitations imposed by discrimination and inequality before the law. Nature didn't decide to grant rights and privileges to one group of Americans and deny them to another; governments did. At least a few have now decided to live up to the equality principles of the Declaration of Independence and Constitution and end the discrimination. Either marriage and its civil benefits should be open to all consenting adults, or it should be open to none. (An exception could be made for incest, of course, because it comes with an unacceptably increased risk of birth defects in children so can be denied not only on moral grounds - or at least on more universal moral grounds.)

""The other is about the denial of sinful behaviors for greater service to society and all of creation?"
Sinful. Only if you are primitive and superstitious enough to swallow that bunk.
Society would be better off if each human being was treated fairly and equitably
Posted by: jvlem"

It's the covenants promised in Creation, Noah, Abraham and Christ promote the equality of all persons. I think where you and I may disagree is in regard to the origin and true ownership of those human rights and all His gifts. Does man have a right to destroy or harm his/her life? What of others? The religious perspective would say no, because the life and all gifts truly belong to God and must be returned to him in good if not better form, less we disappoint and face possible sanction for our abuses.

I'd also like to draw you back to that thought of those covenants and what they mean for a society. They instruct unity in body, in purpose, in meaning, in salvation. More practically, in service and respect to each other.

However, when one promotes a right to privacy and personal pleasure as the religion of modern hedonism does, it erodes social bonds and a spirit of service and respect. The inevitable result is not true freedom, but the creature of injustice as some pursue their own personal pleasures at the expense of others. (Even so-called self-abusing crimes have a public aftermath and larger consequences.)
And no amount of social engineering or legal structures can fully address those crimes, in fact many times those systems and structures often erode humanity and society to support further injustice.

Well, if two men or two women can marry each other, I want to marry my cousin. WTF is wrong with that?! So what if we love each other, and are related, it's none of your business and its our right!!! we'll raise kids in a normal household! Then there is my friend who wants to marry his goat, So what if they love each other, and are not of the same species, it's none of your business and its their right!!!

Posted by: 50Eagle | April 12, 2010 9:45 PM | Report abuse

########################################

Well, you do have practical problems with inbreeding when cousins marry. As far as I know, that hasn't occurred in any gay marriages.

As far as your friend marrying the goat, I just hope the sheep won't be jealous.

Such babble. A politician/ talk show host comes to a school where he is interviewed by students who ask him perfectly relevant questions. Everyone knows that gay rights is a big political issue on college campuses. He then gives answers, answers which are later quoted accurately in a school newspaper, and immediately his PR team has to go on the defensive. What a charlatan! This is a man who ran for president, but who still cannot quantify his views on gay marriage to a few college reporters, in a manner that is not laughable and requires interference from his staff. Huckabee is a joke. Despite his guitar strumming, and smooth talking rhetoric, he is a fraud who never would have gotten anywhere without “Reverend” in front of his name.

Posted by cprferry: "The more one extreme gets in the former, the worse and worse abuse occurs. The more extreme one gets in the latter, love and charity becomes the norm."

Actually, often the more extreme one gets in religion and imposing one's religious views on others, the more we have airplanes flying into buildings and Spanish Inquisitions. There's a reason one calls extremism "extreme."

The problem here is not anyone's religious views. Huckabee could belong to religion that believes marriage should only be between man and sheep and I wouldn't care. Where he and his fellow zealots err is in their departure from the American system's core value of equality before the law. To seek to deny people who do not share his religious views the right to the secular benefits that come with marriage is wrong. Once we say we will give tax breaks, visitation rights, etc to heterosexual couples who enter into a contractual union sanctioned by the state (marriage), to deny those same civil benefits to other couples who wish to enjoy them is un-American and morally wrong.

No one is telling Huckabee or others that their churches must perform such marriages or even recognize the religious validity of them. They can continue to believe that the couple is living in sin. But it is rank discrimination to try to reserve civil rights for one group and deny them to another.

It's frankly anti-Christian too. As Christ said, "whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers, thus you do unto me." For me, those words carry significant meaning as a guiding principle. I fear that many who would trumpet their "Christianity" to all who are within earshot to not place so much value on the central message of the man their religions are supposedly based on.

I find it abhorrent that folks are still equating Homosexuality with the likes of pedophilia, incest, and polygamy. I have heard arguments that equate it with beastiality. What people don't understand and are afraid of they often will try and vilify or demonize. Mr. Huckabee, you call yourself a child of God, so please stop picking on your brother's and sisters. I am sure your Father is very upset with you...

I find it abhorrent that folks are still equating Homosexuality with the likes of pedophilia, incest, and polygamy. I have heard arguments that equate it with beastiality. What people don't understand and are afraid of they often will try and vilify or demonize. Mr. Huckabee, you call yourself a child of God, so please stop picking on your brother's and sisters. I am sure your Father is very upset with you...

there is one thing that is crystal clear: the majority of the human population is heterosexual and everything in social relationship and life is based on this fact. There is a purpose for the human race to have two different sexes, and that is continuity of mankind. Homosexuality is a natural occurrence, but it is not a normal one; just like down syndrome and other related illness. Let's just not be entangled in that so-called political correctness. You want to have a same sex partner? fine, go for it; but there are certain limitations imposed by nature and it has to be accepted.

Posted by: RIVASF1@WESTAT.COM |
_________________________________

What century are you living in? There have been gays since the beginning of time, and if you would look out your window you would see that we are not having any difficulties in populating the planet. And BTW gays can have kids too, so no matter what your HS bilogy book said, there is more then one way to achieve all that you allude to.

Well, if two men or two women can marry each other, I want to marry my cousin. WTF is wrong with that?! So what if we love each other, and are related, it's none of your business and its our right!!! we'll raise kids in a normal household! Then there is my friend who wants to marry his goat, So what if they love each other, and are not of the same species, it's none of your business and its their right!!!

Don't you just love these ultra fair advocates of free speech who maintain that those who would deny gays and lesbians the right to marry have something to say and should he heard? Some pearls of wisdom to contribute to democracy's dialogue, perhaps?

The German Nazis thought Jews were vermin polluting the Aryan race and wouldn't let them marry in civil ceremonies either.

Would we contend that they had a right to speak and should be heard? That they are contributing something to our democracy?

there is one thing that is crystal clear: the majority of the human population is heterosexual and everything in social relationship and life is based on this fact. There is a purpose for the human race to have two different sexes, and that is continuity of mankind. Homosexuality is a natural occurrence, but it is not a normal one; just like down syndrome and other related illness. Let's just not be entangled in that so-called political correctness. You want to have a same sex partner? fine, go for it; but there are certain limitations imposed by nature and it has to be accepted.

Posted by: RIVASF1@WESTAT.COM |
_________________________________

What century are you living in? There have been gays since the beginning of time, and if you would look out your window you would see that we are not having any difficulties in populating the planet. And BTW gays can have kids too, so no matter what your HS bilogy book said, there is more then one way to achieve all that you allude to.

Ladies and Gentlemen... I give you the right wing in America...They cannot give a valid reason why people who love each other cannot engage in the LEGAL contract of marriage. So they throw in incest, beastiality so the can sensationalize the issue and convert the stupid to their point of view...Then they say "well we are concerned about the children" BS... Charles Manson grew up in a hetrosexual marriage home... So did Hitler... etc.. Does that mean children should not grown up in a heterosexual home? Of course not...And these righties TALK about freedom don't they?

This guy is funny. I recall a famous case in Illinois where a man beat his girlfriend's 3-yr old son to a pulp because he soiled his pants. He got the death penalty and she got 20 years for letting it happen. Hetrosexuals are so much better than gays, aren't they?

there is one thing that is crystal clear: the majority of the human population is heterosexual and everything in social relationship and life is based on this fact. There is a purpose for the human race to have two different sexes, and that is continuity of mankind. Homosexuality is a natural occurrence, but it is not a normal one; just like down syndrome and other related illness. Let's just not be entangled in that so-called political correctness. You want to have a same sex partner? fine, go for it; but there are certain limitations imposed by nature and it has to be accepted.

You have to hand it to the far right. They're going to play the gay card as long as they can but just in case gays become much more accepted in society, they've got the next group they're going paint as the cause of the nation's collapse and the cause of the sky falling down: illegal immigrants.

"A certain percentage of humans will always be homosexual. That is the way God created us. I accept it. I've taken care of kids of such couples and they are just fine. It's not an experiment anymore.

Posted by: DavidH3"

By the same logic, though, God created a certain percentage to be Catholic priests, nuns, barren, physically impotent, etc. So not all of creation is intended to express their love in sex and/or have children, no?

chop1: I don't go to church and I am not particularly religious or against homosexuality. I do believe people who are against it have a right to express it without fear of condemnation the same as those who are for it.
I get tired of this paper and other venues framing those who are against it as having something wrong with them.
Posted by: cleancut77 | April 12, 2010 9:08 PM | Report abuse

They certainly have a right to express how they feel. The question is whether they have a right to use the law to force other people to live as they think other people should live.

The people who are against gay marriage are saying that the people who are for it have something wrong with them. Show a little backbone and face the facts.

Marriage is a civil as well as a private and religious affair because society has an interest in the family as the smallest unit of society. Homosexuals can do anything they want together in this society without penalty, but the gay activists (not at all a majority of homosexuals) want to politicize sex and gain a political seal of approval for the way they have sex. Why politicize sex? And why should society approve what virtually all of their grandparents considered to be a vile, criminal, and socially reprehensible perversion?

Posted by: chrisinwien | April 12, 2010 8:55 PM
----------------------------------------
I know what you mean. I married my wife to publicize that I have that kind of sex (usually missionary). Grandpa said he liked it doggy style. He never indicated if he liked to talk to Grandma , visited her in the hospital when she was sick or inherited any thing from her when she died.

So, If I run for president and lose badly y'all will report every stupid thing I say from now until eternity, too, right? Give us a break and reinstall the filter. Not everything is news, guys. Huckabee is a dysfunctional, ultra-religious snake oil salesman. So he's on TV. Who the hell cares? Everybody's on TV now.

"The other is about the denial of sinful behaviors for greater service to society and all of creation?"

Sinful. Only if you are primitive and superstitious enough to swallow that bunk.
Society would be better off if each human being was treated fairly and equitably - ever better if we could all be freed from the self-righteous judgement of "believers."

chop1: I don't go to church and I am not particularly religious or against homosexuality. I do believe people who are against it have a right to express it without fear of condemnation the same as those who are for it.

I get tired of this paper and other venues framing those who are against it as having something wrong with them.

It's amazing how all you anti-gay marriage foamers (including Hucklebee) are obsessed with sex and sexual acts and sexual positions. Seems like you see marriage as only what is done naked in the bedroom.

Tsk, tsk, such dirty minds. As Mom used to say, get your mind out of the gutter!

Huckabee is a neanderthal, stuck in a time warp before his brain fully developed. Civilized societies are not governed by religion. Any politician that lets religion cloud their thinking needs to get out of politics and join the ranks of the church.

Don't let him upset you. He's just part of the fastest dying religion in America: Southern Baptists. They're lashing out on all sides like a drowning man grabs for anything to save himself. They are, unfortunately, able to use their own anger at their lack of relativity and merge it with the Bubbas and Bubbettes of the Baggers. It's a big ole cluster****, for sure. Don't let them upset you. Their anger will undo them.

Yeah, Huckabee, I really care what you think about gay marriage. Now tell me what you think about giving parole to dangerous criminals who go on to murder four cops in Seattle. Oh, wait. You did it, therefore you must be in favor of it. Your judgment on gay marriage probably isn't much better.

Oh sure, he hates the gays, the blacks, the liberals, and the 'others.' But what about us Jews? We've got favored status until the second coming. Then, it's off to the Lake of Eternal Fire for us. I bet he'll be bummed if the whole lot of us get into Heaven. All fundamentalists are dangerous.

In discussing same-sex marriage, the Perspective reported, Huckabee said, "You don't go ahead and accommodate every behavioral pattern that is against the ideal. That would be like saying, well, there are a lot of people who like to use drugs, so let's go ahead and accommodate those who want who use drugs.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Marriage isn't a behavior. It is a legal sanction controlled by the government.

It sounds like Huckabee has no room for homosexual behavior when he talks about his opposition to homosexual marriage. Most people have gotten over other people behaving as homosexuals. Can't he just be thankful other people find people they want to be with?

Marriage is a civil as well as a private and religious affair because society has an interest in the family as the smallest unit of society. Homosexuals can do anything they want together in this society without penalty, but the gay activists (not at all a majority of homosexuals) want to politicize sex and gain a political seal of approval for the way they have sex. Why politicize sex? And why should society approve what virtually all of their grandparents considered to be a vile, criminal, and socially reprehensible perversion?

I used to think this guy was reasonable, albeit misguided. He tried to position himself as reasonable. Ya know, I can understand the kid position (but I don't agree with it, but this comparison with incest is crazy talk. South shoulda been allowed to secede. I'd be bankrupt today.

Marriage ought to be a religious institution. Marriage can be defined by churches to mean whatever their beliefs allow. If they define it as man/woman couples only, then fine because marriage, as a religious institution, ought to carry no weight of law. Civil Unions ought to be the legal version of marriage. Civil Unions ought to legal for any two people, regardless of gender, who want to be joined under law. If people want to get married in a church, then file for a civil union, then it's a legal union and a marriage. Otherwise, they can do one or the other.

"Because free speech works both ways. He is free to express his views. I am free to call his views outdated and ridiculous.
Posted by: presto668"

I think we need to be careful here. If his views are "outdated" and framed in religious teachings and confirmed by ancient, universal teachings on the the compatibility of genders, then it is inappropriate and slanderous to claim he is a homophobic. That's a secular term expressing the negative views some have towards homosexuals. The religious teachings that Huckabee is more than clear in believing paint the issue not in negative terms, but in its affirmation towards another model. That homosexuals choose to live outside of that model should neither force that model to be more inclusive or brand those protective of the model with slanderous names.

Really................... I'm shocked that another GOP southerner, "evangelical minister" too, would be intolerant and hateful. These people now controlling the GOP seem so serene and loving.......... I am shocked by this story....... seriously shocked.

Can't wait until the GOP unveils there new flag for the 2012 convention. It is blood red with this cool black swastika symbol in the middle.............Oh wait I've seen that one before .......... hey wait a minute!

Really................... I'm shocked that another GOP southern, "evangelical minister" would be intolerant and hateful. These people now controlling the GOP seem so serene and loving.......... I am shocked by this story....... seriously shocked.

Can't wait until the GOP unveils there new flag for the 2012 convention. It is blood red with this cool black swastika symbol in the middle.............Oh wait I've seen that one before .......... hey wait a minute!

"Its interesting that if we allow same sex marriage it could lead to the legalization of incest etc in Huckabees mind but couldn't we also use this extreme Glenn Beckesque logic to reigion?
Posted by: Chops2"

Could you? One is based in selfish pursuits of pleasure and the exploitation of sexual partners in unnatural and physically incompatible and harmful acts. The other is about the denial of sinful behaviors for greater service to society and all of creation? The more one extreme gets in the former, the worse and worse abuse occurs. The more extreme one gets in the latter, love and charity becomes the norm.

I think what you fear is maybe totalitarian control by some direct force or systematic manipulation. That's matter unrelated to either, but which will often use selfish pleasures or religious faith to pacify the public to recognizing its true evil identity.

Huckabee represents a sizable voting bloc within the GOP, and his views are virtually indistinguishable from those of Sarah Palin. If you put Palin's support and Huckabee's support together, it's probably a majority of the GOP.

This is why it's so important for Democrats not to alienate independents who are lukewarm with the whole gay marriage thing but don't outright oppose it, who have no problem with tort reform being added to the Obama agenda, and who favor some Federal spending cuts on little-needed or unnecessary programs. Because if these people ever decide that Palin and Huckabee merit their support, we're in real trouble.

Isn't it kind of ironic that the same holier than thou's who complain about behavior they consider strictly immoral are the same people who find themselves dethroned from their pulpits because they were off with hookers, other men in bathrooms, abusing children, etc.?

Children are not puppies, Mr. Huckabee, nor are they objects to be warehoused because the "right" parents acceptable to your idealogy aren't available to them. The idea that these kids are better off in public homes, orphanages and what not than loving parents, whoever they may be, is sordid.

It looks like he doesn't want to be the Republican nominee. Mike, hey, wake up. Dick, Torquemada was a wimp, Cheney’s second daughter, Mary, is in a homosexual relationship. She and her partner, spouse(?), have two children. The party loves him, in spite of Dick’s unqualified expression of love and support for her. Really, you hard shell Southern Baptists need to come to your senses and understand that the GOP only pays lip service to your supernatural beliefs; they are happy to have your support and are ecstatic that your flock continually votes against its economic interests in return for their empty, cynical support of your social concerns. The GOP is about one thing, i.e., protecting exorbitant ill gotten gains. It is the filthy lucre, stupid. The irony is that you all have been sold a bill of goods about liberal elitists; the true elitists are the inner core of the GOP leadership.

Looks like the Repubs are up their old selves again. How hypocritcal of them to think that the government should have little say in one's health care, but needs to determine who people can't share their lives with.

I mean do they think that if gay marriage passes that unemployment will go DOWN or the economy will tank????

I don't support "Gay" marriage. I don't support "Straight" marriage. I do support the government (local, state, or national) steering clear of marriage altogether. Any two people should be able to obtain a civil union recognized by the government. If a church then chooses to "marry" them, then that should be up to the church and the couple, not the government.
PS, I possess ability to love members of the same sex.

Its interesting that if we allow same sex marriage it could lead to the legalization of incest etc in Huckabees mind but couldn't we also use this extreme Glenn Beckesque logic to reigion? If we allow same sex marriage to not occur based on religion, where does religious interference end? The stoning of adulterers? Death to homosexuals?

Maybe if we didn't have an oppressive omnipresent federal government, we wouldn't even have to hear about this BS. Live and Let live. Gays are doing nothing wrong, so let them be. Now, as far as "same sex marriage" - um, since Marriage is a RELIGIOUS term, how do you redefine it without attacking religion?

You pro gays want to try to accomplish something, take the word "marriage" out of the law and make EVERYONE EQUAL. And no, I personally don't support gay marriage.

As a former Pastor, Huckleberry should know that true Biblical marriage was polygamous. One man and one woman was unheard of in Biblical times. As for incest, I don't know how he makes that connection, but his tired rhetoric doesn't hold water because it has been proven that gay and lesbian people who choose to parent children, are good at it.

You've gotta love it when one of the dudes decrying our commenting back on Huckabee's moronic commentary since Huckabee "has a right to express his opinion." You've gotta love it even more when said defender of Huckabee's honor has "cleancut" as part of his posting moniker. Well - how swell that is. Perhaps you can understand this then: Huckabee's comments were awful, and if you're defending him at his worst, then you're probably a bigot as well, perhaps even a bigot using the Bible to defend your bigotry (folks who do that usually tend to be the biggest hypocrites of all. Eat shellfish? CHeck. Divorced? Check. Premarital sex? Check. Adultery? Check. But countenancing a consenting relationship between two adult men or two women? My God, no!!! But that's just one man's take - using his "right to express his opinion"...........

1. So Mike Huckabee is a diabetic. THIS MUST MEAN HE HAD SOME UNHEALTHY DOG_IMPOSED addiction to sugar because we know there is NO GENETIC FACTOR TO DIABETES. (as there is no genetic factor to drug abuse or homosexuality)

2. Mike Huckabee will NOW DECLARE DIVORCE, and all HETEROSEXUAL DEVIANCES (including the GOP love of diapers, multiple wives (of course one a time (supposedly), ho's, illicit affairs, non-missionary sex practiced only during those "Times of the month that may result pregnancy") all ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES PUNISHABLE BY JAIL TIME.

3.. Gov HUck also will now insist that all HETEROSEXUAL couples BE TESTED PRIOR TO MARRIAGE FOR ANY "CONDITIONS" that make them unable to bear children so that if they are found to be barren or sterile they CANNOT BE MARRIED and therefore must go thee to the nunnery or whereever horny old sterile men go.

4. ALL CHILDREN BORN OUT OF WEDLOCK - including BRISTOL PALIN's child should be removed from their homes and placed in RIGHTEOUS CHRISTIAN HOMES FORTHWITH.

5. ALL NON_HUCKABE LOVERS shall from hereforth out REGISTER with the F(*& the HUCK website so we can keep track of the SENSIBLE PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY who do not judge. They accept people for who they are.

The Republican Party is being dominated by southern white men that left the Democratic party after the civil rights laws because they were racist and bigots then and they are racists and bigots now,,

And they are proud of it!!

In their mind, men like them are who built this country and what makes it strong,,

Its the white man's last stand, against the tide of history, against the tide of immigration, against the rise of women in hte church, against the tide of human beings being accepted by the content of their character and not the color of their skin or who they may love

I don't understand why people are being attacked for their legitimate views. He has a right to express his opinion. My God do we all have to have left wing views in order for the media not to criticize us?

Frankly what he said is not something I haven't heard before. Just this week we had an example of an adult who treated their adopted kid like a puppy.

Huckabee's only following the Bible. He didn't condemn homosexuality; God did. I'm glad Huck's got the courage to speak up against it!

I'd like to set one thing straight: Christians don't hate queers; we hate the sin that runs their lives...and it IS sin...no different than any other. When God says something is an abomination, who are we to argue with it? If God had said it's okay, then I guess it wouldn't bother me. He made up the laws and told us to obey them. So don't get the idea we Christians think ourselves superior in any way to homosexuals. 'Tain't so! We're all sinners., but it's up to you whether you will live a moral life or not.
You people who bash Huck for speaking up are the discriminators; you discriminate against those who choose to follow God because they choose to follow Him.

Papafritz571 wrote:
"Huckabee is a scared little man."
He has more guts than fools who call Christians names and them accuse THEM of being discriminatory.

Revbookburn wrote:
"Huckabee is part of the problem. By making such extremely bigoted and ignorant remarks, he is contributing to the ugliest problems in our nation."

By ignoring your God, YOU are a part the country's problems, my friend.

janeway1 wrote:
"I wonder what he'd say about Muslims adopting. Or perhaps someone who is HIV positive? Or how about divorcees?

Sexual preference is not an indicator of goodness or badness. Sexual preference is controlled by the brain you are born with. It is not a choice or a selection as Hucklebee and his narrow minded folk want you to believe it is....He proves to be the hypocrite most think he is."

Better to be a fool than burn forever.

"For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."
...1 Cor. 1:18

Heve you ever seen a worse Republican party than this one? Huckabee, Palin, Romney, Paul, etc. - all loser candidates: no ideas, angry that a good person, Obama, got elected president. 172% of the world could really care less about this dumb "marriage" thing: people are allowed to spend their time with the people they want. Pathetic.

michaelsmith21 said: "Again, truth is not created simply by repeating an assertion over and over and over again."

---
This can be applied to your position as well. The fact that people have demonized and pathologized non-heterosexuals in no way means there is anything wrong with being non-heterosexual. The problem is your position accepts cruelty and discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. Why choose a position that brings out the worst in yourself? How about accepting that no one really knows why people are gay, and consider that...it doesn't matter. People are who they are and everyone deserves a place of dignity and respect in the human family.

Well,, Another National Republican Leader finally tells you what he really thinks,,

the veil falls and like Haley Barbour and Gov McDonnell of Virginia, the world can see this for what it is,,,

Bigotry, Ignorance, Homophobia and Racism

These leaders do not give a whit about babies and children in protesting abortion,,, if they did why are they doing something about all the children in the foster care system moved around among homes,,, instead of trying to place them in homes that want them,,

these white men want control and the world to mold to their narrow view of life,, they believe in the subjugation of women and the totality of male dominance

Drugs, incest and polygamy are choices made by people independent to how they were created,,

Being Gay is not a lifesytle choice

Bigotry, ignorance, homophobia and racism are all lifestyle choices,,, its a learned behavior,,,

Fact is same sex marriage is becoming legal in more and more places and, lo, the sky is not falling. When people like Huckabee come out with this kind of thing, which is really just political grandstanding anyway, they demonstrate that they are themselves anachronisms.

Mike Huckabee is a tired old man. It's time for him to shut up and go away and let the younger generations take over, and guess what...the younger generations don't care about who marries who. They care about a livable planet.

Mr. Huckabee, instead of blathering on uselessly, why don't you do something worthwhile? Feed some hungry people, house some homeless people. You are consigning yourself, correctly, to the company of idiots by clinging to your antiquated prejudices.

@fotochief...so marriage is only for those that can reproduce? Also, along your reasoning, any sex other than penis to vagina is sinful, right? Oral and anal cannot reproduce, so let's hope all the married couples out there understand the requirements of marriage. I hate that we might have to give up oral or lose our marriage license. Damn!!

"The plain, unvarnished and irrefutable truth of the matter is that there was not and there is not as of this writing ANY DEFINITIVE PROOF to support your parroted claim that homosexual or bisexual behavior is as much an inherent human characteristic as another's race, color or ethnic origin..."
Posted by: michaelsmith21 | April 12, 2010 6:56 PM

True, but, and I say this respectfully, largely irrelevant.

First, this isn't about "behavior" so much as it is about a trait that some of us discover we have.

I first realized I was gay as a young teenager. I don't know WHY I am gay. Could be genetic, of course, or it could be based on fetal brain development or even because, unbeknownst to me (or anyone else!) I was dropped on my head one too many times. Shrug.

I don't know WHY I am gay. I do know that it was never anything I "chose" and, in fact, it was something that I was overwhelmingly NOT expecting or wanting. If ever there was an individual who "chose" to be heterosexual, that would have been me.

But apparently, we don't get to choose these sorts of fairly basic, primal traits, whether we're gay or straight.

Again, shrug.

All that said, the issue isn't what causes some of us to be gay, but how society treats those of us who are.

To date, I've known lots of parents. The overwhelming majority have been opposite-sex couples. Most seem to be quite capable. Many are not.

Of the gay couples I know well and who are raising kids, they are (not sure how to say this exactly)--unimaginably wonderful parents. Their kids are a joy to watch, and the parents--well, you could write a book on good parenting by observing them in action. I am utterly wowed by them.

So with respect, I suggest we resist generalizations that claim one group is the "ideal" and the other can never be.

Groups don't raise kids. Individual couples do.

And I've seen plenty of evidence that sexual orientation is simply irrelevant to predicting which "group" any parent will fall into.

Proponents of this issue have taken an extreme and to date unfounded position by linking and attempting to make equivalent irrefutable inherent human characteristics that no one would or could reasonably argue against, such as one's race, ethnicity and sex, with other human behavioral characteristics that have not been and are NOT currently proven as predestined by birth. You all know full well that there has not been and there is not currently definitive scientific consensus which proves that those who opt to live in the so-called gay or bisexual lifestyles are doing so not by choice or environment but are doing so because they are so-called "born that way." We have heard time and time again ad nausea arguments and attempts to bootstrap this profound (and unfounded) argument to the historic Civil Rights movement, including attempting to characterize those that point out the lack of definitive evidence as people who are less than your intellect or lacking somewhat in moral character. The plain, unvarnished and irrefutable truth of the matter is that there was not and there is not as of this writing ANY DEFINITIVE PROOF to support your parroted claim that homosexual or bisexual behavior is as much an inherent human characteristic as another's race, color or ethnic origin. And all of the self-rationalizations do not supplant the complete lack of definitive scientific proof. Again, truth is not created simply by repeating an assertion over and over and over again.

Posted by: michaelsmith21 | April 12, 2010 6:56 PM

=============================================

I would love to hear the story about how you weighed the pros and cons of homosexuality, heterosexuality, and bisexuality, and thoroughly researched the topic before finally settling on heterosexuality (and announcing your decision to everyone you know). You can't honestly say you went through a decision-making process when it came to your sexuality.

@ Bluefish2012 so then you support Huckabee's comparison of gay marriage to drug abuse, incest and polygamy, correct? Do you see how insulting that would be to gays and lesbians? Also, your argument that antagonism against gay marriage is self-evident, it wasn't long ago (1967 in Virginia) when blacks and white couldn't marriage. We evolve and our understanding of relationships does as well.

Posted by: wjfreeman1

************************

What post did you read? I said nothing that you said I said....

Nothing will ever evolve from the basic fact that a man and a woman complement each other in a unique way. Like nothing will ever change the fact that two molecules of hydrogen and one of oxygen make water.

My friend, it's just the way it is. Even if I passed a law saying some other elements made water, they wouldn't. See where I'm coming from?

I agree on one point. Children are not puppies. But Huckabee seems perfectly content to let thousands of kids be shuffled from one foster home to another or remain in state custody, rather than have the opportunity to be part of a loving family. Because that family doesn't fit his definition. I don't see him adopting any kids in need of a good home, guess he's too busy watching out for himself.

michaelsmith21: Oh yes, all those gay folks out there just decided they WANTED to be gay because it is just SO EASY to put up with all the discrimination and hatred that exists against homosexuals.

I am sure you prefer the type of gay person who keeps it hidden away except when he visits the airport bathroom or hires a gay hooker to give him a meth-infused massage while his wife waits at home raising their "Christian" family. Why, if only those gay people who actually hope for equal rights under the law could just shut up and "know their place"? I suppose you would sleep better at night knowing that your wholesome, straight existence is not "under attack".

what a horrible attack on families and children! This is not a liberal or conservative issue. This is about supporting all families and giving all children the chance to grow up in a loving and supportive environment - which has nothing at all to do with the sex or sexual orientation of the parents.

It never ceases to amaze me how people will disregard facts and come up with baseless comparisons to rationalize their petty little insecurities. Why does anyone think it is attractive or that it benefits anyone to show how small their world is.

Beware of people who feel the need to assert superiority to others based on irrelevant things like sexual orientation, race, gender. Be even more wary of people who feel the need to reject any family that doesn't fit their own personal definition and tell other people what is and isn't a family. They are either hiding or are not aware of their own motives. Mike Huckabee is just trying to score quick and cheap political points...

Ah, and this is one of the smarter of the possible GOP candidates! It's nice (in a way) to see a guy just step right up and admit to being a Neanderthal. (Cue the objections from the commercial Neanderthals.)

This coming from the Governor who pardoned how many violent criminals, including sex offenders? I can think of two...One shot killed police officers sitting in a diner in Washington and then the other who abducted a little girl and raped and murdered her. In today's society, each of these truly "risky" people would be allowed to go out and do whatever they want.

Huckabee is all over the place. This is why I cannot support right wing republicans. As a moderate voter, I like moderate and independent thinkers.

Tom, et. al.: I Wish. But, the united states is going in the other direction: Clearly disturbed. I think at some point there will be an inquisition. Think about the GOP supporters, who are fundamentally socially conservative; and cannot exist with anything else; because their fairy tale hero told them what was right.

@ Bluefish2012 so then you support Huckabee's comparison of gay marriage to drug abuse, incest and polygamy, correct? Do you see how insulting that would be to gays and lesbians? Also, your argument that antagonism against gay marriage is self-evident, it wasn't long ago (1967 in Virginia) when blacks and white couldn't marriage. We evolve and our understanding of relationships does as well.

The divorce rate for heterosexual couples is about 50% and there is plenty of documented child abuse. There is documented evidence the same-sex couples have equal or better child rearing practices and less child abuse. I think homophobic Huckabee thinks that the parents' sexual orientation will be copied by the young, which is not supported by good evidence. As comedian Mark Russell once said, "If I turned out the same as my teachers, today I would be a nun!"

"Huckabee just made a comparison between behavior that deviates from the norm in various degrees, some worse than others, but all of them having that one thing in common and that is that they are not an accepted part of our culture because they are all risky behaviors."
_________

I would say that torturing and killing a stray dog is deviant behavior that suggests that a person possesses zero respect for other living creatures. Huckabee can't even teach his own kid how to behave in an "acceptable" manner.

I'm a relatively moderate voter (favor immigration reform; good healthcare, no death penalty,...but somehow because I can't see how male/male or female/female is equal to male/female, I'm suddenly slammed as a right winger.
Marriage is the word that until a few years ago when the newspeak version came into vogue was used to refer to a unique male/female relationship. Not to boy/boy or girl/girl relationships. OK, so those exist, but call them something else and don't pretend they are something that they are not.

What on earth am I missing? I don't need religion to see the inequality between these types of relationships. It's right in front of my eyes.

I support every effort to financially devastate sexist, racist, and homophobic religion. Huckabee is a religious zealot who is paid a lot of money to say this disgusting garbage. His religion deserves all of the negativity that it has coming to it!

Look at his eyes. If you have ever met someone who is mentally unstable they have that same look. It is unmistakable. Which of course makes hucklberry the perfect republicon candidate and a darling of fixed noise.

Proponents of this issue have taken an extreme and to date unfounded position by linking and attempting to make equivalent irrefutable inherent human characteristics that no one would or could reasonably argue against, such as one's race, ethnicity and sex, with other human behavioral characteristics that have not been and are NOT currently proven as predestined by birth. You all know full well that there has not been and there is not currently definitive scientific consensus which proves that those who opt to live in the so-called gay or bisexual lifestyles are doing so not by choice or environment but are doing so because they are so-called "born that way." We have heard time and time again ad nausea arguments and attempts to bootstrap this profound (and unfounded) argument to the historic Civil Rights movement, including attempting to characterize those that point out the lack of definitive evidence as people who are less than your intellect or lacking somewhat in moral character. The plain, unvarnished and irrefutable truth of the matter is that there was not and there is not as of this writing ANY DEFINITIVE PROOF to support your parroted claim that homosexual or bisexual behavior is as much an inherent human characteristic as another's race, color or ethnic origin. And all of the self-rationalizations do not supplant the complete lack of definitive scientific proof. Again, truth is not created simply by repeating an assertion over and over and over again.

Look at his eyes. If you have ever met someone who is mentally unstable they have that same look. It is unmistakable. Which of course makes hucklberry the perfect republicon candidate and a darling of fixed noise.

We're finally at the point in our society where people like Mike Huckabee come across as a holes, plain and simple. That's a good thing. We're never going back to the way they'd like things to be. Better start dealing with it, Mike.

Huckabee explained that in elementary terms and some still don't understand it. It was not a religious view to be against same sex marriage but a moderate view that probably the majority of people hold, including Obama. Huckabee just made a comparison between behavior that deviates from the norm in various degrees, some worse than others, but all of them having that one thing in common and that is that they are not an accepted part of our culture because they are all risky behaviors.

Posted by: SusanMarie2 | April 12, 2010 6:41 PM

===========================================

How exactly is marriage a "risky" behavior? How is committing to love one person until death do you part "risky" behavior? Perhaps you should go to a college campus this weekend and observe some risky behavior. If Mr. Huckabee's views are indeed non-religious (as you claim), then the argument against same-sex marriage loses all power. If you remove religion as the basis for that argument, all you have left is bigotry and discrimination.

We're finally at the point in our society where people like Mike Huckabee come across as a-holes, plain and simple. That's a good thing. People like him will increasingly get left behind . . . and we're never going back to the way they'd like it to be. Better start dealing with it, Mike.

Place this guy 40 years in the past and he would be arguing for racially segregated washrooms and against women in the workplace. Politically, these days, he can achieve the same result by bashing gays & lesbians. Are you really, honestly surprised?

"To those who lash out at Gov. Huckabee. What form of family were you raised in? There is still honor and dignity in the marriage of a man and a woman. Their is still honor and dignity in the raising of a child by both of that child's parents. There is evident in so many of the comments on this page a comtempt for that honor and dignity."
________

Oh come on. Nobody is saying that there is "no honor and dignity in the marriage of a man and a woman" or that it isn't a good thing for a child to be raised by both parents.

The only "contempt" that is being shown is Huckabee's contempt and disdain for gay couples who wish to adopt and raise children in loving, committed homes. That, and all the contempt being shown by intolerant homophobes here who seem to think that unwanted children would be better off languishing in the foster care system after their heterosexual parents failed at raising them with all that "honor and dignity" that you seem to think only exists in the straight world. The divorce rate in this country might be at 52%, but that is not the fault of "the gays".

He forgot to read "Judge not lest ye be judged".Have to remember he's a step ahead on the moral scale and two steps back on the evolutionary scale.Feed this moral cr*p to your kids and watch them as they vomit it right back at you.Don't stand in the doorway don't block up the hall.The times have already changed.You better start swimmin' or you'll sink like a stone.

Huckabee explained that in elementary terms and some still don't understand it. It was not a religious view to be against same sex marriage but a moderate view that probably the majority of people hold, including Obama. Huckabee just made a comparison between behavior that deviates from the norm in various degrees, some worse than others, but all of them having that one thing in common and that is that they are not an accepted part of our culture because they are all risky behaviors.

"The 'break-up' rate among gay couples is easily five times that of heterosexual married couples, and very few gay couples 'grow old together,' and a small percentage are faithfully committed excluding all others. Reality check."
============================================

Could that be because these couples experience extreme social backlash from judgmental and hateful members of their community? Whether that comes in the form of vandalism, physical violence, threats, or verbal harassment, it's still difficult to keep a relationship together with society working so hard to make you miserable.

Besides, you're missing the point - straight people are capable of entering into "bound-to-fail" relationships, yet we don't impose laws forbidding them to make that choice. Why should the case be different for LGBTQ couples?

Praise to Governor Huckabee for his strong moral views that are based in the bible. In Leviticus 20:10 (New International Version)it states: If a man commits adultery with another man's wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.
So, Governor, how many Republicans should be given a lethal injection? None? Then stop using the bible selectively for your own personal agenda.

Huckabee explained that in elementary terms and some still don't understand it. It was not a religious view to be against same sex marriage but a moderate view that probably the majority of people hold, including Obama. Huckabee just made a comparison between behavior that deviates from the norm in various degrees, some worse than others, but all of them having that one thing in common and that is that they are not an accepted part of our culture because they are all risky behaviors.

Praise to Governor Huckabee for his strong moral views that are based in the bible. In Leviticus 20:10 (New International Version)it states: If a man commits adultery with another man's wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.
So, Governor, how many Republicans should be given a lethal injection? None? Then stop using the bible selectively for your own personal agenda.

With these comments I pray for a Huckabee/Palin GOP ticket in 2012 --- please, please, please run 'cause we will kick your asses. You are the ones that are outside of the mainstream. You are a sick and twisted fringe.

@Bobbo2: I agree with you that there is honor and dignity in a man and woman raising a child. It also happens that there is honor and dignity in two women, or two men, raising an adopted child. There is also honor and dignity in an extended family raising a child--which is actually the "normal" accepted model throughout much of the world. Turns out that children thrive when they are parented well, in a manor of honor and dignity....whomever is doing the good parenting. Children do poorly when they are poorly parented....whomever is doing the parenting.

wpmars- "Sickning liberal comments. barf. The Bible says honor your mother and your father. Not your mother and your mother.
Im not a big big fan of Huck but the man IS holy.
And yea..confederate day? so what. Blacks werent the only slave job holders in the world. Little kids use to work in greasy factories around the clock. Slavery was a healthy lifestyle if you ask me compared to your present day little cubical in a toxic building."

MY COMMENT:

I cannot believe you posted this comment. First of all, since I don't think pointing out the separation of church and state clause to you would convince you, let me point out that maybe, just maybe, interpretation of the bible is much more complicated and subtle than you seem to want to believe. For instance, the law in the Torah, which you are referring to, stating do not kill seems to directly contradict God commanding the Israelites to slaughter their enemies, even the women and the children. How can God create laws for us and then subsequently command us to do the opposite? I am not judging, but I am telling you to THINK more about the implications of what is in the bible and try to see the subtleties in there. NOTHING is black and white in the Bible.

FURTHERMORE, think slavery is a healthy lifestyle? Imagine growing up your entire life in that system. Your mother, sisters, wife, would all likely be raped, repeatedly, bearing the "master's" children. Or if you are a woman, that would be you. Imagine being sent to the deep south, forced to work from sunrise to sunset in 100+ degree heat, every single day, until your body deteriorates and you die, likely before the age of 30 if not sooner.

Think about all this, and realize how sick your comment really was. Be ashamed, and learn something please

He makes such a good point. But shouldn't we be sterilizing lesbian couples? Or at least make it a federal crime for a man to knowingly donate sperm to a lesbian couple? It's so easy to keep parenthood away from the gays, but looks like mother nature made it a bit easier for the women.

And as we all know this is no time to be having some sort of lesbian child rearing experiment.....think about those poor kids.

To those who lash out at Gov. Huckabee. What form of family were you raised in? There is still honor and dignity in the marriage of a man and a woman. Their is still honor and dignity in the raising of a child by both of that child's parents. There is evident in so many of the comments on this page a comtempt for that honor and dignity. Our Government has shown that contempt for years with the welfare state.

If you are curious about how a same-sex parent family, and their adopted children, live, check out the "depfox" channel on YouTube. These two gentlemen adopted two children (siblings) that no "straight family" wanted. See how this very nice family operates. There are many many families like this in the U.S.

Mike Huckabee has managed to raise a bunch of fat redneck sons. One in particular wins the prize for "potential serial killer" as evidenced by his torture and killing of a stray dog.

I don't think Mike Huckabee should be judging who should be able to adopt the thousands of unwanted children who are dumped into the system because their heterosexual parents failed miserably at providing them with decent homes. The fact that he compares homosexuality to incest is evidence enough that this guy is cut from the same foul cloth as Jerry Falwell and Fred Phelps.

If the likes of Mark Sanford, Jesse James, Tiger Woods, and the rest are any indication of the moral superiority of heterosexuals, then I think most kids might be be better off in a gay home, where the fragility of family actually means something to those involved.

By the way, MOST of today's gay population were raised by Christian, straight couples, so how does he explain that?

A Tea Party activist was asked why he backed Carl Paladino, the Tea Party GOP favorite for New York governor.

The response from the Tea Bagger activist was; "I be like I wantin this here patriot Carl Paladino fer bein my representative cuz he be true American and I be hopin that he be makin the dark skinned folks to be back to where they wuz before the Civil War."

By all means, have your opinions and voice them. But this level of insult is totally uncalled for. The LGBTQ community are not a bunch of animals and criminals as Huckabee claims. These are people who want nothing more than to peacefully spend their lives with someone they love - same as a heterosexual. There are ZERO statistics showing detrimental outcomes of children raised in nontraditional families versus those raised in traditional families. To claim otherwise is to lie. Shame on you, Huckabee. What ever happened to the Golden Rule anyway?

It sounds like this bible thumper is better suited to be the president of the Southern Baptist Convention than President of the United States. Thank God (no irony intended) for the Establishment Clause.

The Confederate legacy is one of Slavery of Millions as well as systematic Murder, Rape, Torture and Terror to perpetuate the institution of Slavery. For Millions of us, any reference of the confederacy as well as their KKK Symbolic flag is a constant reminder of their terrorist history.

Reasonable people can disagree about gay marriage and gay adoption, but any idiot should be able to understand that Huckabee is not drawing a moral equivalence between gay marriage and incest; his point is that society already agrees that it is appropriate to have laws against what it deems socially undesirable behavior, even if that behavior is consensual and (short-run) harmless to the individual.

Sickning liberal comments. barf. The Bible says honor your mother and your father. Not your mother and your mother.
Im not a big big fan of Huck but the man IS holy.
And yea..confederate day? so what. Blacks werent the only slave job holders in the world. Little kids use to work in greasy factories around the clock. Slavery was a healthy lifestyle if you ask me compared to your present day little cubical in a toxic building.

So Long as the Rich get Trillions in Tax Cuts while Soldiers fight in two wars in the Middle East; so Long as Coal companies are able to pollute on the public dime and Kill of it's workers by fighting against insuring safety; so Long as Insurance Companies can drop Children from coverage and bankrupt families; so Long as Oil companies get tax subsidies and make Obscene profits; so long as the GOP fights against Job Creation and New American Industries; so long as the GOP continues to fund Hate groups and discrimitate against citizens, then all is Huckabee.

"You don't go ahead and accommodate every behavioral pattern that is against the ideal."

Right, because it's not as if people didn't used to claim that same-race marriage was the ideal. Now I guess those people just don't say it out loud anymore, because it's this exact same attitude that this troglodyte of a man Huckabee is spouting.

In this country, we do not tolerate those who would discrimate based on how people are born, since we have agreed as a nation to strive toward the ideal that "all [people] are created equal." It is one of our nation's core values. No one is "created" an incest practitioners or drug abusers. But all people are born with their sex, race, ethnicity, and sexual orientation that they have. It is wrong and immoral to discriminate or belittle people for how they are born.

Just another candidate pulling the Republican party away from the mainstream of rational voters. Have to wonder why the Republicans are working so hard to stay out of power.

So the government should get to choose the gender of spouses and parents? Used to be the law got to pick the race of who got to adopt or marry as well. Let's keep the government out of who is or isn't allowed to be family.

Actually, mhr614, you are incorrect. For the majority of human history, marriage was between one man and as many wives as he could support. If you take your cues from history, then you should be an avid supporter of polygamy.

I give Huckabee huge praise for speaking out against gay marriage. No matter what you believe, this man has said his thoughts on the matter and that is that. He is a good Christian man, and doesn't deserve the rude comments made about him on here. Enough said, thank you Huckabee for speaking out for those of us who still have morals in this corrupt world.

I really believe alot of the right wingers feel this way...especially most of those considering higher office...this guy just admits it...most others cover it up...but are probably cheering him on...Unbelieveably stupid.

Bravo! Glad to see someone has the cajones to say it how it is. Don't worry Mr. Huckabee, most people agree with what you say, they just don't want to be chastised by the left wing liberals for have the right to free speech.

"The 'break-up' rate among gay couples is easily five times that of heterosexual married couples, and very few gay couples 'grow old together,' and a small percentage are faithfully committed excluding all others. Reality check."

From where are you getting your facts? Or is this another case of people thinking if they say something, then it must be true. All data culled by the American Psychological Association, the National Association of Social Workers, and other organizations list the break-up rate of LGBT couples as basically the same, if not a little less, than straight people. Any data on LGBT relationships is difficult to obtain given that, because they are not allowed to marry in most states, their relationship is not recognized as a marriage. Also, just because most Americans might agree with Huckabee doesn't mean he is right. In fact, most people were opposed to interracial marriage when Loving v. Virginia was decided. The threat of majority rule is exactly why the Fourteenth Amendment was created.

Huckabee is part of the problem. By making such extremely bigoted and ignorant remarks, he is contributing to the ugliest problems in our nation. The people who perpetrate incest and pedophilia, from priests to Mark Foley, lump all categories together before they go out and become perps again.

Huckabee will need to be less ignorant if he wants to be a viable candidate in the future who is not locked down by the 'tea party' psycho sector.

A large number of lesbians who want to adopt are already de-facto parents of their partner's children. What is wrong with making that arrangement legally recognized? Clearly Huckabee lives a very isolated, hateful life.

Huckabee is part of the problem. By making such extremely bigoted and ignorant remarks, he is contributing to the ugliest problems in our nation. The people who perpetrate incest and pedophilia, from priests to Mark Foley, lump all categories together before they go out and become perps again. Huckabee will need to be less ignorant if he wants to be a viable candidate in the future who is not locked down by the 'tea party' psycho sector.

For the entirety of human history, marriage was and has been the legal union between a man and a woman. By definition two men cannot be married; nor two women. That's the way most rational people want it. Once that wall is breached if it ever is, the next step for liberals will be to legalize unions between two men and three women- you name the combination. Being in favor of traditional marriage is not necessarily being anti-homosexual.

The quickest way to close a mind is to let it think it will get the presidential nomination. I wonder if Huckster-bee believes we should scrap the US Constitution and live under biblical law? It would allow us to have slaves again....hhmmm?

I really believe alot of the right wingers feel this way...especially most of those considering higher office...this guy just admits it...most others cover it up...but are probably cheering him on...Unbelieveably stupid.

Gay people have been raising kids for millenia, and there has never been the slightest indication that they are less capable of good parenting than non-gay parents. There is more honesty these days--people no longer have to pretend that they are something they are not. But it's not an "experiment"--to call it such is to lie.

Gay people show the same range of morality as non-gay people. Several of the most moral and saintly people I have ever met have been gay. And some of the most amazing parents as well.

The nastiest and most ill-suited to parenting I have ever witnessed have been heterosexual. You just can't predict, alas.

There just doesn't seem to be ANY correlation between parenting and the sexual orientation of the parents.

What Governor Huckabee is doing is pretending that one characteristic trumps all others when, in reality, it doesn't. At all.

Parents --all parents-- have a combination of "ideal" and "non-ideal" characteristics. We don't decide who gets to be a parent based on any of them.

And we judge parents (when we judge them at all) not based on what's between their legs but on how much love and guidance they provide to their kids--and no one has ever been able to demonstrate that gay parents differ in any substantive way on that measure.

Did they ask him how it compares morally to foolishly releasing convicted violent felons (who go on to murder and maim again) on the basis of blind allegiance to his preacher friends and their obviously flawed notions of atonement and personal reform?

Like it or not, agree or disagree, most Americans agree with Huckabee; though those who agree would not be so vocal and public about their opinion on the subject.
The 'break-up' rate among gay couples is easily five times that of heterosexual married couples, and very few gay couples 'grow old together,' and a small percentage are faithfully committed excluding all others. Reality check.

Huckabee used to be the only program that I could tolerate on Fox News (my hubby is a Repub - I'm not); next time he's on, I'm leaving the room. Huckabee doesn't seem to base his remarks on any kind of evidence; to compare gay marriage to incest and polygamy is ridiculous. To say gays should not be allowed to adopt because it might screw up the kids is ludicrous. Screwed up kids come with all types of parents. Funny, though, you never hear about a teenage mass-murderer being raised by two daddies or two mommies.

Huckabee is a scared little man. He also would like to be President. This scared little man sees any kind of change as a personal threat to his ultra-white,ultra-male, ultra-ignorant existence. To compare incest and polygamy to gay people is only his latest scam. He is being overshadowed by Romney and Palin and he is seeing his chances on the big stage disappearing. What else can these lousy rightwingers complain about? They will go after any minority group to vilify because their own white privilege is being threatened.
These are the "religious" people who would throw their own child out of the house and family if he contracted AIDs. We all saw how many "christians" did that very thing to their AIDs infected sons because they were so ashamed and they let their shame overcome their love for their child.
I disregard everything these political frauds spout because underlying the clap that comes out of their mouths is really just another egotist who wants his/her fifteen minutes of celebrity. I wonder who their next whipping boy will be.

Unfortunate to compare children to puppies: reminded me his adult son tortured and killed a stray dog. I don't even want to think about what kind of sick non-ideal parents the Huckabees were to turn out such a monster.

Prior poster, who will remain nameless to protect the shreds of reputation that may be left: "The argument for legalize gay marriage is the same as the argument to legalize incest or polygamy. Although if you bring that up you typically get called names."
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Huckabee is a scared little man. He also would like to be President. This scared little man sees any kind of change as a personal threat to his ultra-white,ultra-male, ultra-ignorant existence. To compare incest and polygamy to gay people is only his latest scam. He is being overshadowed by Romney and Palin and he is seeing his chances on the big stage disappearing. What else can these lousy rightwingers complain about? They will go after any minority group to vilify because their own white privilege is being threatened.
These are the "religious" people who would throw their own child out of the house and family if he contracted AIDs. We all saw how many "christians" did that very thing to their AIDs infected sons because they were so ashamed and they let their shame overcome their love for their child.
I disregard everything these political frauds spout because underlying the clap that comes out of their mouths is really just another egotist who wants his/her fifteen minutes of celebrity. I wonder who their next whipping boy will be.

>... The reason Gay Marriage (in most places) and incestual or polygamous marriages are illegal are based 100% on the idea of morality. The argument for legalize gay marriage is the same as the argument to legalize incest or polygamy. Although if you bring that up you typically get called names.

Then I suggest that holier-than-thou huckie talk to the "mother" and "grandmother" of a 7-year-old Russian boy that the "mother" adopted last year and just blithely sent him back to Russia, UNACCOMPANIED, without talking to the adoption agency in Russia OR the US. She got this idea from some online "lawyer" who said the adoption could be "reversed".
Huckabee is a nutball if he thinks that my marriage to my lovely WIFE in June 2008 (we're a gay Christian couple) is against "the idea of morality". He needs to yank the huge log out of his own tiny little eyeball before trying to remove a "speck" that he claims is in someone else's eye.

He also needs to remember that incest and polygamy are illegal, whereas being glbt is NOT. Any 1L can tell him that, in one-syllable words that even he can understand.

One of my relations went through an extraordinarily messy divorce. I can't imagine that this really even needs saying, but it seems that heterosexuals have done a fine job destroying the institution of marriage all by themselves.

Did they ask him how it compares morally to foolishly releasing convicted violent felons (who go on to murder and maim again) on the basis of blind allegiance to his preacher friends and their obviously flawed notions of atonement and personal reform?

Prior poster, who will remain nameless to protect the shreds of reputation that may be left: "The argument for legalize gay marriage is the same as the argument to legalize incest or polygamy. Although if you bring that up you typically get called names."
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Prior poster, who will remain nameless to protect the shreds of reputation that may be left: "The argument for legalize gay marriage is the same as the argument to legalize incest or polygamy. Although if you bring that up you typically get called names."
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I wonder what he'd say about Muslims adopting. Or perhaps someone who is HIV positive? Or how about divorcees?

Sexual preference is not an indicator of goodness or badness. Sexual preference is controlled by the brain you are born with. It is not a choice or a selection as Hucklebee and his narrow minded folk want you to believe it is.

Slightly OT: Google Hucklebee's interview on Daily Show. He proves to be the hypocrite most think he is.

Dear God:
If Mr. Huckabee's comments represent what You want, then I encourage You to mark me down for Hell. Please. If this is what You want, I have no interest in spending eternity with You. If those comments are not what You believe, though, please keep my spot open just in case. I appreciate it.

Like many of his ilk, Huckabee wants to force his religious beliefs on others. Also like others who think that way, he isn't likely to admit that his beliefs are based in his relgion. We should fear those in public life who can't keep from pushing their religious beliefs into public policy.

What a party -- you got this jerk saying this, and the Virginia governor resurrecting the confederacy and ignoring slavery -- you got the "baby killer" shouter, and unhinged, gruesome nut cases like Glenn Beck, Michelle Bachman and Sarah "death panels" Palin.

The sad thing is there are lots of people who think the way Huckabee does. I have traveled this country far and wide and, while I have seen a lot of rocks, I am still amazed at how many people live under them.

He asserts that children raised by gay couples are harmed by the experience. This is because homosexuality is "against God's Will as revealed amongst the inerrant Wisdom written in the Holy Book." Scientific evidence of harm is lacking. But, when you are one of those who lives to do as the Authorities demand, what he says makes sense. Since you find it necessary to live by his rules, you demand that everyone else live by his rules. It really is easier that way. Submit. Comply. Give in. Never question Authority.

Huckabee does have a point here. The reason Gay Marriage (in most places) and incestual or polygamous marriages are illegal are based 100% on the idea of morality. The argument for legalize gay marriage is the same as the argument to legalize incest or polygamy. Although if you bring that up you typically get called names.

Personally, I am in favor of any consenting adult entrering into any voluntary contract they see fit. Personally, I don't think the government has any business in legaly defining any marriage.