I had my red dot AF invisible yesterday in the strong sunlight. No system is perfect unfortunately.

No system is perfect, from manufactured goods to political systems. But in the context of this discussion, it's clear that Canon inexplicably let go the highly workable red AF point system for a comprehensively inferior, deeply unpopular, black AF point system. Sigh...And just as the Canon PR machine thought they had put the 1D Mk3 AF debacle behind them they've got yet another AF related bomb to defuse.

And what a shame. My 5D3 AF is the best I have ever experienced in either OneShot or AI servo mode in bright light or dimly function rooms, except when I lose sight of the selected AF point. And that's far too often.

Canon have re-written the paradox manual; a brilliant new AF system throttled by a simple, wrong GUI decision.

I had my red dot AF invisible yesterday in the strong sunlight. No system is perfect unfortunately.

No system is perfect, from manufactured goods to political systems. But in the context of this discussion, it's clear that Canon inexplicably let go the highly workable red AF point system for a comprehensively inferior, deeply unpopular, black AF point system. Sigh...And just as the Canon PR machine thought they had put the 1D Mk3 AF debacle behind them they've got yet another AF related bomb to defuse.

And what a shame. My 5D3 AF is the best I have ever experienced in either OneShot or AI servo mode in bright light or dimly function rooms, except when I lose sight of the selected AF point. And that's far too often.

Canon have re-written the paradox manual; a brilliant new AF system throttled by a simple, wrong GUI decision.

PW

The 7D users have managed with this arrangement for 3 years without it becoming an issue. Perhaps Canon had not taken into account the different shooting habits of 5D and 7D users

Comprehensively inferior, i.e. in every way? Bit harsh, don't you think? As stated, there was no hue and cry over the same system in the 7D. Does everyone really want that dense array of AF points etched into the viewfinder? Think it's deeply unpopular with people who switched back and forth between the standard and -D grid focus screen? Nobody likes the ability to display an electronic level in the VF?

To a point - specifically, with an f/2.8 lens the viewfinder is as bright as it's going to get and the AF points are as dark as they're going to get, meaning maximum contrast. If you use lenses faster than f/2.8, the AF points actually get washed out - even though the standard focusing screen means the viewfinder doesn't get any brighter with lenses faster than f/2.8, the additional light does affect the transmissive LCD, such that with an f/1.2 lens, the AF point display appears light gray instead of black.

Well jeff ascough thinks other wise when using fast primes but what does he know lol he doesn't shoot test charts like you lol

How, exactly, does Jeff Ascough disagree with the basic physical properties of the way the standard focus screen and transmissive LCD work?

Comprehensively inferior, i.e. in every way? Bit harsh, don't you think? As stated, there was no hue and cry over the same system in the 7D. Does everyone really want that dense array of AF points etched into the viewfinder? Think it's deeply unpopular with people who switched back and forth between the standard and -D grid focus screen? Nobody likes the ability to display an electronic level in the VF?

Comprehensively? In every way? Well yes, but I'm referring exactly to the black AF points, nothing else. You can run my post through the Oxford dictionary if you like, but look past my lack of language mastery and concider what I'm trying to communicate.

I stand by my statement and it's backed by direct experience. I've worked a busy daily schedule with 1D4 & 5D3 side by side for a three weeks now in all sorts of shooting environments. The 5D3 AF system is powerful and pleasingly accurate, all the way out to the outer AF points. It outperforms the 1D4 in most situations. But it's galling that full access to its power is denied because of the black AF points. I shoot in dynamic, not static situations and have either lost shots or missed peak moments because I've lost sight of my selected AF point.

Not really sure what you are saying about the standard and D grid focus screen and the level in the VF. These functions can be chosen if required/desired. Of course nobody wants that dense array lit up full time, nobody is saying otherwise. We just need to keep track of our selected AF point. Red has always worked, and works "comprehensively" better than black.

Yes, the black can be tolerated, but as my Uncle Bob once told me, "Why not travel first class?" Ahem....it's a metaphor.

Comprehensively inferior, i.e. in every way? Bit harsh, don't you think? As stated, there was no hue and cry over the same system in the 7D. Does everyone really want that dense array of AF points etched into the viewfinder? Think it's deeply unpopular with people who switched back and forth between the standard and -D grid focus screen? Nobody likes the ability to display an electronic level in the VF?

Comprehensively? In every way? Well yes, but I'm referring exactly to the black AF points, nothing else. You can run my post through the Oxford dictionary if you like, but look past my lack of language mastery and concider what I'm trying to communicate.

I stand by my statement and it's backed by direct experience. I've worked a busy daily schedule with 1D4 & 5D3 side by side for a three weeks now in all sorts of shooting environments. The 5D3 AF system is powerful and pleasingly accurate, all the way out to the outer AF points. It outperforms the 1D4 in most situations. But it's galling that full access to its power is denied because of the black AF points. I shoot in dynamic, not static situations and have either lost shots or missed peak moments because I've lost sight of my selected AF point.

Not really sure what you are saying about the standard and D grid focus screen and the level in the VF. These functions can be chosen if required/desired. Of course nobody wants that dense array lit up full time, nobody is saying otherwise. We just need to keep track of our selected AF point. Red has always worked, and works "comprehensively" better than black.

Yes, the black can be tolerated, but as my Uncle Bob once told me, "Why not travel first class?" Ahem....it's a metaphor.

PW

I think you mean "Red has always worked, and works "comprehensively" better than black for you"

7D black worked comprehensively better for me than the 1D red yesterday in the bright sunlight

Not really sure what you are saying about the standard and D grid focus screen and the level in the VF. These functions can be chosen if required/desired. Of course nobody wants that dense array lit up full time, nobody is saying otherwise. We just need to keep track of our selected AF point. Red has always worked, and works "comprehensively" better than black.

Those features are possible only because of the transmissive LCD. Could you 'turn off' (render invisible) the AF points or spot metering circle on the 1DIV? No. Could it show only cross-type points for a given lens? No. The AF point array on the 1DIV (and all other cameras except the 7D) is etched in place. As a result, the red illumination is more effective, because the etched surface provides an opportunity for enhanced reflection of the red light. It's a trade off, yes, but IMO the benefits significantly outweigh the losses. For you, it sounds like that's not the case, so I guess you'll be skipping the 1D X and keeping the 1DIV (or picking up a 1DsIII if you want/need FF).

I had my red dot AF invisible yesterday in the strong sunlight. No system is perfect unfortunately.

No system is perfect, from manufactured goods to political systems. But in the context of this discussion, it's clear that Canon inexplicably let go the highly workable red AF point system for a comprehensively inferior, deeply unpopular, black AF point system. Sigh...And just as the Canon PR machine thought they had put the 1D Mk3 AF debacle behind them they've got yet another AF related bomb to defuse.

And what a shame. My 5D3 AF is the best I have ever experienced in either OneShot or AI servo mode in bright light or dimly function rooms, except when I lose sight of the selected AF point. And that's far too often.

Canon have re-written the paradox manual; a brilliant new AF system throttled by a simple, wrong GUI decision.

I honestly don't even think I noticed that they weren't red until I heard other people complaining about it. I usually only used the center point with the 5DII so whether or not it was red was irrelevant. But with the 5DIII the autofocus is amazingly accurate, I don't need a red confirmation of how accurate it is. But I guess for some it's important, but it seems like some people are just using it as an excuse to bitch about the 5DIII.