I grew up in Mt. Vernon, the establishment in question is more of a bar that hosts shooting events than a traditional gun club. Having lived within 10 minutes drive of this location, I can sum up the argument pretty easily.

When they train cops to deal with knifes; the trainers say that a guy with a knife within 20 feet of a guy with a gun can kill the guy with the gun. If you think about it; most fit adults can run 20 feet in 3 to 5 seconds; some are even faster.

/ Granted, the mama Boo Boos of the world is probably come in around the 10-12 second mark.

If I remember correctly, in Illinois, you may not carry a loaded gun in public, or something to that effect. the incident happened outside the club (a non-public place where, presumably, one could possess a loaded weapon). So it makes sense, from a legal standpoint, that the responsible gun-owner in that parking lot, faced with a knife-armed attacker, is at a clear disadvantage.

Also, what's up with three counts he was charged with? He killed one person...

iheartscotch:HawgWild: Huh. Guess you CAN bring a knife to a gun fight ...

When they train cops to deal with knifes; the trainers say that a guy with a knife within 20 feet of a guy with a gun can kill the guy with the gun. If you think about it; most fit adults can run 20 feet in 3 to 5 seconds; some are even faster.

/ Granted, the mama Boo Boos of the world is probably come in around the 10-12 second mark.

Originally came in to make a joke about responsible knife ownership. Then I read your comment and was reminded of some police training my dad shared when I was a kid. Police (back in the day, at least) were trained to respect a knife at close range. They can be deadly when used by the right person, or by a lucky wrong person. Guns can be slightly less useful at those ranges and if it is your only tool, you're gonna have a bad day.

BetterMetalSnake:iheartscotch: HawgWild: Huh. Guess you CAN bring a knife to a gun fight ...

When they train cops to deal with knifes; the trainers say that a guy with a knife within 20 feet of a guy with a gun can kill the guy with the gun. If you think about it; most fit adults can run 20 feet in 3 to 5 seconds; some are even faster.

/ Granted, the mama Boo Boos of the world is probably come in around the 10-12 second mark.

Originally came in to make a joke about responsible knife ownership. Then I read your comment and was reminded of some police training my dad shared when I was a kid. Police (back in the day, at least) were trained to respect a knife at close range. They can be deadly when used by the right person, or by a lucky wrong person. Guns can be slightly less useful at those ranges and if it is your only tool, you're gonna have a bad day.

Yep, and Kevlar isn't meant to stop blades. Or arrows, or crossbow bolts; granted, if we're talking about a box cutter then Kevlar is somewhat helpful; but, an actual blade will go right through Kevlar.

A gun is a ranged weapon. A knife is a melee weapon. If someone is threatening with a knife hoping to rob a victim, there will be time to draw, aim and fire a handgun. If killing a victim without hesitation was the stabber's goal, he will have the knife in a victim's gut, and turned so the cut can't close before almost anyone would have time to draw and point. This is especially so if the man with the gun has a rifle, and the man with the knife is already on him.

This article does not mention robbery as a motive, so it was probably a pre-meditated act with no hesitation.

This is why I spend hours each week practicing my knifemanship. While lesser men would cower in face face of an attacker, I fall back on the time I've put in at the dagger range to keep me safe. To protect myself, I carry a concealed cleaver on my person at all times.

BetterMetalSnake:iheartscotch: HawgWild: Huh. Guess you CAN bring a knife to a gun fight ...

When they train cops to deal with knifes; the trainers say that a guy with a knife within 20 feet of a guy with a gun can kill the guy with the gun. If you think about it; most fit adults can run 20 feet in 3 to 5 seconds; some are even faster.

/ Granted, the mama Boo Boos of the world is probably come in around the 10-12 second mark.

Originally came in to make a joke about responsible knife ownership. Then I read your comment and was reminded of some police training my dad shared when I was a kid. Police (back in the day, at least) were trained to respect a knife at close range. They can be deadly when used by the right person, or by a lucky wrong person. Guns can be slightly less useful at those ranges and if it is your only tool, you're gonna have a bad day.

dittybopper:BetterMetalSnake: iheartscotch: HawgWild: Huh. Guess you CAN bring a knife to a gun fight ...

When they train cops to deal with knifes; the trainers say that a guy with a knife within 20 feet of a guy with a gun can kill the guy with the gun. If you think about it; most fit adults can run 20 feet in 3 to 5 seconds; some are even faster.

/ Granted, the mama Boo Boos of the world is probably come in around the 10-12 second mark.

Originally came in to make a joke about responsible knife ownership. Then I read your comment and was reminded of some police training my dad shared when I was a kid. Police (back in the day, at least) were trained to respect a knife at close range. They can be deadly when used by the right person, or by a lucky wrong person. Guns can be slightly less useful at those ranges and if it is your only tool, you're gonna have a bad day.

It's called the "Tueller Drill".

Basically, if someone is inside a certain radius, usually given as 21 feet, you can't unholster, present, and fire a handgun before that person, armed with a knife, could stab you.

A gun is a ranged weapon. A knife is a melee weapon. If someone is threatening with a knife hoping to rob a victim, there will be time to draw, aim and fire a handgun. If killing a victim without hesitation was the stabber's goal, he will have the knife in a victim's gut, and turned so the cut can't close before almost anyone would have time to draw and point. This is especially so if the man with the gun has a rifle, and the man with the knife is already on him.

This article does not mention robbery as a motive, so it was probably a pre-meditated act with no hesitation.

But that won't stop the idiots here who know nothing about defense or firearms spewing their derp.

Rapmaster2000:dittybopper: BetterMetalSnake: iheartscotch: HawgWild: Huh. Guess you CAN bring a knife to a gun fight ...

When they train cops to deal with knifes; the trainers say that a guy with a knife within 20 feet of a guy with a gun can kill the guy with the gun. If you think about it; most fit adults can run 20 feet in 3 to 5 seconds; some are even faster.

/ Granted, the mama Boo Boos of the world is probably come in around the 10-12 second mark.

Originally came in to make a joke about responsible knife ownership. Then I read your comment and was reminded of some police training my dad shared when I was a kid. Police (back in the day, at least) were trained to respect a knife at close range. They can be deadly when used by the right person, or by a lucky wrong person. Guns can be slightly less useful at those ranges and if it is your only tool, you're gonna have a bad day.

It's called the "Tueller Drill".

Basically, if someone is inside a certain radius, usually given as 21 feet, you can't unholster, present, and fire a handgun before that person, armed with a knife, could stab you.

dittybopper:BetterMetalSnake: iheartscotch: HawgWild: Huh. Guess you CAN bring a knife to a gun fight ...

When they train cops to deal with knifes; the trainers say that a guy with a knife within 20 feet of a guy with a gun can kill the guy with the gun. If you think about it; most fit adults can run 20 feet in 3 to 5 seconds; some are even faster.

/ Granted, the mama Boo Boos of the world is probably come in around the 10-12 second mark.

Originally came in to make a joke about responsible knife ownership. Then I read your comment and was reminded of some police training my dad shared when I was a kid. Police (back in the day, at least) were trained to respect a knife at close range. They can be deadly when used by the right person, or by a lucky wrong person. Guns can be slightly less useful at those ranges and if it is your only tool, you're gonna have a bad day.

It's called the "Tueller Drill".

Basically, if someone is inside a certain radius, usually given as 21 feet, you can't unholster, present, and fire a handgun before that person, armed with a knife, could stab you.

And now I've learned something. I wonder what this new knowledge has displaced.

Rickenbacker:Manism582: Rickenbacker: Manism582: I grew up in Mt. Vernon,

I'm sorry.

/I keed, I keed. Not much different here a couple hours north of Mt. Vernon

There's a reason I moved away for college and didn't go back...

And apparently moved far enough not to get sucked back in! My mistake was not getting far enough away. It's like a whirlpool.

Someone mentioned Illinois gun laws. Concealed carry is legal, as of July 2013.

the law prohibiting concealed carry is gone, but as far as I know, the new necessary classes to qualify for concealed carry didn't start until Jan, and are still in session, so no new Illinois concealed carriers yet.