This is nothing but speculation from Cowley. The quote from Ozzie pretty much says that it won't happen.

BadBobbyJenks

04-23-2009, 09:41 PM

It's like Joe Cowley has entered the "Keith Hernandez Zone"

PaleHoser

04-23-2009, 09:53 PM

Cowley could tell me that the sky is blue and that the sun will rise tomorrow and I would still be skeptical.

Lip Man 1

04-23-2009, 10:11 PM

To those who are able to see him everyday, this question.

Are you sure it's the weather or have pitchers adjusted to him? (And he hasn't been able to readjust to the new ways they are going after him...)

Just wondering.

Lip

BadBobbyJenks

04-23-2009, 10:13 PM

To those who are able to see him everyday, this question.

Are you sure it's the weather or have pitchers adjusted to him? (And he hasn't been able to readjust to the new ways they are going after him...)

Just wondering.

Lip

He is a slow starter simple as that. Looked a lot better the past two games.

Konerko05

04-23-2009, 10:21 PM

Nix taking over for Alexei is a joke.

If Alexei proves last year was a fluke, Beckham will be taking over.

The only reason Nix is playing SS is to see if he can be used in a utility infield role.

RichFitztightly

04-23-2009, 10:30 PM

To those who are able to see him everyday, this question.

Are you sure it's the weather or have pitchers adjusted to him? (And he hasn't been able to readjust to the new ways they are going after him...)

Just wondering.

Lip

From what I've seen, the pitchers have been throwing bad pitches up there and letting Alexei swing and miss. Right now, the pitchers realize they don't have to throw strikes to get an out. I mean, he has swung at some really awful pitches.

However, Alexei has been a little more selective the past couple of games against Baltimore. In my opinion, I think he'll be fine eventually. I'm assuming, of course, he continues to improve his pitch selection. Once he gets the strike zone locked in, he'll get his his numbers up.

asindc

04-23-2009, 10:56 PM

Wasn't Alexei even worse this time last year? Yawn, no biggie. Let's worry about our 4th and 5th starters.

DrCrawdad

04-24-2009, 02:15 AM

Nix has played all of what 5 games in the minors this season? Apparently according to Cowley he's stationed at SS at the Sox minor league teams so far this season. Bear in mind though that Nix has not ever played a major league game at SS and other then these 5 games or so, Nix hasn't played SS since 2001.

I remember hearing that Nix is a fine 2nd baseman, but I don't know if the transition from 2nd base to SS is quite the same as the reverse.

JermaineDye05

04-24-2009, 02:28 AM

If Alexei was going to be replaced by anyone, why would it be Jayson Nix? I mean it could be, um...oh, I don't know...GORDON BECKHAM.

sorry, not gonna happen. Alexei won't be replaced by Jayson Nix. His defense has been good at SS.

cards press box

04-24-2009, 06:51 AM

The article also said that Jayson Nix could take Jerry Owens' place on the roster. That would leave Brent Lillibridge as the only backup outfielder. That's seems a lot more possible than Nix taking over for Alexei Ramirez at SS. I do agree that if the Sox are going to move Ramirez off of SS, it would probably be later this summer for Gordon Beckham.

Maybe the Sox are showcasing Nix for a trade? I still think that St. Louis and the Sox are a good match. Would the Cardinals deal Skip Schumaker for Nix? Probably not straight up but maybe that would form the basis of a trade.

One more possibility -- perhaps the Sox will carry 11 pitchers and not 12. In that scenario, Nix would take what was MacDougal's (and now is Egbert's) spot on the roster. Scot Gregor has opined that the Sox might try to work out a deal for Luis Vizcaino, as well.

The Sox major league roster is still evolving and, at this point in the season, that's a good thing.

chisox77

04-24-2009, 09:27 AM

Stick with Alexie. He will be fine.

Craig Grebeck

04-24-2009, 09:30 AM

The article also said that Jayson Nix could take Jerry Owens' place on the roster. That would leave Brent Lillibridge as the only backup outfielder. That's seems a lot more possible than Nix taking over for Alexei Ramirez at SS. I do agree that if the Sox are going to move Ramirez off of SS, it would probably be later this summer for Gordon Beckham.

Maybe the Sox are showcasing Nix for a trade? I still think that St. Louis and the Sox are a good match. Would the Cardinals deal Skip Schumaker for Nix? Probably not straight up but maybe that would form the basis of a trade.

One more possibility -- perhaps the Sox will carry 11 pitchers and not 12. In that scenario, Nix would take what was MacDougal's (and now is Egbert's) spot on the roster. Scot Gregor has opined that the Sox might try to work out a deal for Luis Vizcaino, as well.

The Sox major league roster is still evolving and, at this point in the season, that's a good thing.
Do you really mean to ask if the Cardinals would deal Schumaker for a guy they could have signed for nothing in the offseason, and has only proven thus far that he is a) fragile and b) not really good enough to be on the 25 man roster?

Sure!

cards press box

04-24-2009, 12:00 PM

Do you really mean to ask if the Cardinals would deal Schumaker for a guy they could have signed for nothing in the offseason, and has only proven thus far that he is a) fragile and b) not really good enough to be on the 25 man roster?

Sure!

Schumaker is an outfielder playing second base. That just won't last.

By all accounts, Nix is a superior defender at 2B. He was probably the best defensive 2B in Colorado's system last year and he is probably the best defensive 2B in the Sox system this year. You question whether Nix is fragile but, really, do you have any basis for this other than his injury in spring training? The question for Nix is and always has been his offense.

In spring training, Nix hit over .400. In the games I saw, he was hitting hard line drives, often to the opposite field. If Nix has versatility and can play multiple positions for the Sox (i.e., 2b, SS, 3B) and can hit, that's great. The Sox would benefit from the depth and Nix would be a good addition to the roster.

One more thing -- I didn't say that the Sox would be able to swap Nix for Schumaker straight up. I imagine that the Sox would have to throw in a prospect. And what difference does it make that St. Louis could have picked up Nix in the offseason but didn't? Now, before anyone blows their stack for no good reason, I am not comparing Nix to David Ortiz except in this respect: when Minnesota released Ortiz, anyone could have picked him up but only Boston did. You think that the fact that other teams could have had Ortiz for nothing means that those teams wouldn't trade for Ortiz now?

Bottom line: Nix is a superior defensive player to anyone then Cardinals have playing 2B. If Nix and Getz (and, for that matter, Beckham) are all good enough to start at 2B in the big leagues, then the Sox have a surplus of talent at 2B. Doesn't it make sense to deal from such a surplus to address a need for a lefthanded hitting outfielder who can play CF and lead off?

thedudeabides

04-24-2009, 12:31 PM

This is a bunch of sensationalistic crap conjured up by Cowley. Which is very in line with what the Sun-Times is these days.

The Sox had a lot of patience with Alexei last year, and are even more excited this year about him playing SS. Why would they run out of patience after three weeks? If he gets sent down, I will eat my hat.

Nix has to be on the roster, so they have to know if he can field the position at SS. If they send down Owens, Lillibridge is the only back up CF, so when he's out there someone else has to be able to back up all the infield positions. I think it's pretty clear to everyone Betemit can't do that.

People are just looking way to deep into this to find a story. I read somewhere else that Beckham was playing second so he can get used to playing there and come up to the big club to take over. May be true down the road, but Getz is playing well and Nix has to get some time at SS. Beckham getting time at 2b is just a result of that, and he does get some game experience there, as it may be a possibility down the road.

tick53

04-24-2009, 01:02 PM

:wanne

"He'll be foin".

RCWHITESOX

04-24-2009, 02:45 PM

Wasn't Alexei even worse this time last year? Yawn, no biggie. Let's worry about our 4th and 5th starters.

Couldn"t agree more; because we have alot to worry about with our 4th and 5th starters.

Craig Grebeck

04-24-2009, 08:03 PM

Schumaker is an outfielder playing second base. That just won't last.

By all accounts, Nix is a superior defender at 2B. He was probably the best defensive 2B in Colorado's system last year and he is probably the best defensive 2B in the Sox system this year. You question whether Nix is fragile but, really, do you have any basis for this other than his injury in spring training? The question for Nix is and always has been his offense.

In spring training, Nix hit over .400. In the games I saw, he was hitting hard line drives, often to the opposite field. If Nix has versatility and can play multiple positions for the Sox (i.e., 2b, SS, 3B) and can hit, that's great. The Sox would benefit from the depth and Nix would be a good addition to the roster.

One more thing -- I didn't say that the Sox would be able to swap Nix for Schumaker straight up. I imagine that the Sox would have to throw in a prospect. And what difference does it make that St. Louis could have picked up Nix in the offseason but didn't? Now, before anyone blows their stack for no good reason, I am not comparing Nix to David Ortiz except in this respect: when Minnesota released Ortiz, anyone could have picked him up but only Boston did. You think that the fact that other teams could have had Ortiz for nothing means that those teams wouldn't trade for Ortiz now?

Bottom line: Nix is a superior defensive player to anyone then Cardinals have playing 2B. If Nix and Getz (and, for that matter, Beckham) are all good enough to start at 2B in the big leagues, then the Sox have a surplus of talent at 2B. Doesn't it make sense to deal from such a surplus to address a need for a lefthanded hitting outfielder who can play CF and lead off?
Jayson Nix is not a good baseball player. He is worse than Schumaker, and they would have no use for him.

That is my point. He's never been a good offensive player, save last year's fluke.

FarWestChicago

04-24-2009, 08:49 PM

To those who are able to see him everyday, this question.

Are you sure it's the weather or have pitchers adjusted to him? (And he hasn't been able to readjust to the new ways they are going after him...)

Just wondering.

LipThe opposition has him figured out, Lip. He may never get another hit in baseball. :(:

soulfly

04-24-2009, 10:20 PM

Alexei has just down right awful a lot of times at the plate so far this year. I'm not saying Nix is the answer by any means either.

I think the funny thing is when everyone talks of Beckham coming up they assume Getz is the odd man out. So far Getz has looked more than capable of holding down that position and the top of the order. Sure, I know, it's early in the season, lets see what happens. But maybe the time Beckham comes up Getz isn't the odd man out anymore. It might just be Alexei.

LoveYourSuit

04-24-2009, 10:25 PM

Wasn't Alexei even worse this time last year? Yawn, no biggie. Let's worry about our 4th and 5th starters.

How could he be worse if he didn't start playing full time until mid May? :scratch:

He had a bad first week last season, and then he rode the bench until mid May when Uribe went down.

This right here is his first full slump up here, hitting and fielding.

RichFitztightly

04-24-2009, 10:31 PM

The opposition has him figured out, Lip. He may never get another hit in baseball. :(:

Wow, that is the most pessimistic thing I've read in a long while. He can still hit balls thrown over the plate. He just has to make the pitchers throw strikes. Once he does that he'll be OK... maybe not superstar status, but definitely OK.

LoveYourSuit

04-24-2009, 10:34 PM

Wow, that is the most pessimistic thing I've read in a long while. He can still hit balls thrown over the plate. He just has to make the pitchers throw strikes. Once he does that he'll be OK... maybe not superstar status, but definitely OK.

I think he was being sarcastic.

Lip Man 1

04-24-2009, 11:18 PM

Ozzie was quoted in the paper Friday as saying he didn't think Ramirez was making adjustments.

Ironic isn't it?

Lip

CubKilla

04-24-2009, 11:22 PM

Alexei deserves a night off..... one way or the other..... for tonight's game. Absolutely BRUTAL

DSpivack

04-25-2009, 12:34 AM

Alexei deserves a night off..... one way or the other..... for tonight's game. Absolutely BRUTAL

Every hitter has seemed to take the last two games off.

JB98

04-25-2009, 03:02 AM

Every hitter has seemed to take the last two games off.

Except for Chris Getz. It ain't his fault. He's getting on base.

FarWestChicago

04-25-2009, 07:42 AM

Ozzie was quoted in the paper Friday as saying he didn't think Ramirez was making adjustments.

Ironic isn't it?

LipI will commission a "Fire Alexei" tag.

doublem23

04-25-2009, 08:26 AM

Except for Chris Getz. It ain't his fault. He's getting on base.

I will commission a "Fire Alexei" tag.

Can we get a "CLONE GETZ" tag, too? :cool:

southside rocks

04-25-2009, 08:33 AM

I will commission a "Fire Alexei" tag.

Absolutely. Zero tolerance! I don't want to hear any crap about "stages of development" -- they show up perfect, fully formed, mature baseball players or they get cut from the roster for good! :rolleyes:

Alexei's really struggling, I feel bad watching him, and I hope he works through it quickly.

cards press box

04-25-2009, 10:37 AM

Jayson Nix is not a good baseball player. He is worse than Schumaker, and they would have no use for him.

That is my point. He's never been a good offensive player, save last year's fluke.

I assume that you are referring to Nix's 2008 year at Colorado Springs where in 67 games he hit 17 HR, 51 RBI, 63 runs scored, .303 BA and .373 OBP. But in 2007 in 124 games, Nix hit 11 HR, 58 RBI, 80 runs scored, .292 BA and .342 OBP. Nix is 26 and many ballplayers have their best seasons between 26 and 30. Oh yeah, and former big league 3rd baseman Carney Lansford said he's probably the best second baseman he's ever seen play.

But what does Carney Lansford know? He only played in the big leagues for 15 years with the Angels, Red Sox and A's. You have decreed that Jayson Nix is not a good baseball player and no dissenting opinions will be tolerated, right?

I assume that you are referring to Nix's 2008 year at Colorado Springs where in 67 games he hit 17 HR, 51 RBI, 63 runs scored, .303 BA and .373 OBP. But in 2007 in 124 games, Nix hit 11 HR, 58 RBI, 80 runs scored, .292 BA and .342 OBP. Nix is 26 and many ballplayers have their best seasons between 26 and 30. Oh yeah, and former big league 3rd baseman Carney Lansford said he's probably the best second baseman he's ever seen play.

But what does Carney Lansford know? He only played in the big leagues for 15 years with the Angels, Red Sox and A's. You have decreed that Jayson Nix is not a good baseball player and no dissenting opinions will be tolerated, right?

Once again, look at just about every player on the Colorado Springs roster last year, and tell me Nix did anything extraordinary. If all the guy does is rake and is the greatest fielder of all time, can you tell me why the Colorado Rockies DFA'd him twice last year with no takers, and eventually released him? Yeah, he's a star. Please. Guys who repeat AAA 3 or 4 times usually have a lot of success. That doesn't necessarily translate to MLB. See Eldred, Brad.

Lundind1

04-25-2009, 12:42 PM

To those who are able to see him everyday, this question.

Are you sure it's the weather or have pitchers adjusted to him? (And he hasn't been able to readjust to the new ways they are going after him...)

Just wondering.

Lip

One of the reasons that I would argue against this philosophy is the fact that he does make adjustments every at bat. That was one of the things that he was lauded for. I just don't see that if he stuggles early, it is time to get rid of him.

Let's be honest also. If Dewayne Wise or Brian Anderson had a start this bad, we would want them out immediately. Dewayne looked as if he was going to come around and unfortunately got hurt. You have to have immense amounts of patience at this level.

FarWestChicago

04-25-2009, 01:16 PM

You have to have immense amounts of patience at this level.Lip and patience have never been written in the same novel, much less paragraph or sentence. Alexei must go, and as soon as the guy who replaces him makes an out, he must go, too. By September we might go through 350 players. If we don't, Kenny is a shiftless bum. :D:

Lip Man 1

04-25-2009, 01:45 PM

Folks:

I'm confused and I'll admit it won't be the last time.

How someone can conclude that I want Ramirez "fired" simply because I asked a question to those who see him everyday is beyond me.

In this thread some posters said that he doesn't play well in bad weather coming from Cuba. I asked a legit question...is that the reason? or have pitchers adjusted to him from last year and he hasn't re-adjusted yet.

That's it.

A simple question... nothing, absolutely nothing implied on my part.

Why would I want Ramirez "fired" if the only option is a failed first round pick in Nix?

That's beyond nuts.

And based on Ozzie's direct comments Friday in the newspaper apparently he doesn't think the weather is the reason.

Lip

It's Dankerific

04-25-2009, 02:20 PM

And based on Ozzie's direct comments Friday in the newspaper apparently he doesn't think the weather is the reason.

Lip

Ozzie often times makes quotes to the media that are just highly sophisticated ploys to throw you off the scent of the truth. You can't take anything Ozzie and KW says at face value, no matter the context.

Jjav829

04-25-2009, 02:23 PM

Ozzie often times makes quotes to the media that are just highly sophisticated ploys to throw you off the scent of the truth. You can't take anything Ozzie and KW says at face value, no matter the context.

Good point.

*looks about a quarter of an inch down the screen*

Good point....:haddock:

Craig Grebeck

04-25-2009, 05:02 PM

I assume that you are referring to Nix's 2008 year at Colorado Springs where in 67 games he hit 17 HR, 51 RBI, 63 runs scored, .303 BA and .373 OBP. But in 2007 in 124 games, Nix hit 11 HR, 58 RBI, 80 runs scored, .292 BA and .342 OBP. Nix is 26 and many ballplayers have their best seasons between 26 and 30. Oh yeah, and former big league 3rd baseman Carney Lansford said he's probably the best second baseman he's ever seen play.

But what does Carney Lansford know? He only played in the big leagues for 15 years with the Angels, Red Sox and A's. You have decreed that Jayson Nix is not a good baseball player and no dissenting opinions will be tolerated, right?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=nix---001jay

http://archives.chicagotribune.com/2009/mar/04/sports/chi-04-white-sox-jayson-nix-chicmar04
I'm sorry for Carney, as he, along with a lot of other people, is afflicted by something that makes him pine for below average ballplayers. Stats have context; that context includes, but is not limited to: level, age, ballpark, etc. Context is everything in the minor leagues, and it is pointing towards fluke in this instance.

FarWestChicago

04-25-2009, 06:09 PM

How someone can conclude that I want Ramirez "fired" simply because I asked a question to those who see him everyday is beyond me.How would anybody who knows you conclude anything else?T:dunno:

Taliesinrk

04-25-2009, 06:18 PM

Good point.

*looks about a quarter of an inch down the screen*

Good point....:haddock:

Although I've made it clear I think BA should be in, that's a hilarious post. POTW.

SOXSINCE'70

04-25-2009, 06:31 PM

:wanne

"He'll be foin".

:wanne

"He's a runner.He'll be foin,AAAAAAAAPPP!!"

FarWestChicago

04-26-2009, 12:16 AM

A very, very, very rough night for Lip. Whaddyagonnado? :scratch:

Brian26

04-26-2009, 12:26 AM

Ozzie often times makes quotes to the media that are just highly sophisticated ploys to throw you off the scent of the truth.

I still contend that Ozzie isn't smart enough to do that.

Lundind1

04-26-2009, 09:16 AM

I still contend that Ozzie isn't smart enough to do that.

I'll bet that he has a lot more going upstairs than most people. A LOT more!!!

asindc

04-27-2009, 09:42 AM

I still contend that Ozzie isn't smart enough to do that.

It's amazing. Even fans of other teams have come to admit that they have underestimated Ozzie to their detriment. If you think at this point that Ozzie doesn't know exactly what he is doing, then you will never give him full credit.

cards press box

05-04-2009, 05:19 AM

Jayson Nix is not a good baseball player. He is worse than Schumaker, and they would have no use for him.

That is my point. He's never been a good offensive player, save last year's fluke.

I'm sorry for Carney, as he, along with a lot of other people, is afflicted by something that makes him pine for below average ballplayers. Stats have context; that context includes, but is not limited to: level, age, ballpark, etc. Context is everything in the minor leagues, and it is pointing towards fluke in this instance.

Well, Joe Morgan weighed in on the issue of Jayson Nix' defensive ability tonight and he, too, said that Nix got high marks for his range, arm and defensive ability at 2B.

Think Joe Morgan knows a thing or two about defense at 2B? I do. what's more, I've seen nothing about Nix' game that makes me think Carney Lansford or Morgan is wrong that Nix is a superior defender at 2B.

As for his hitting, I suppose the jury is still out. To be fair, Nix did hit over .400 in both spring training and his rehab in the minors. In the Sox loss tonight, Nix went 2-3 with the Sox' only RBI.

Look, if Nix shows any kind of offensive game, then the Sox have two good young second basemen on the major league roster and perhaps have the depth to trade for an outfielder/leadoff man. In this regard, I still think that the Sox match up well with St. Louis and their glut of outfielders but dearth of second basemen.

southside rocks

05-04-2009, 07:40 AM

I'll bet that he has a lot more going upstairs than most people. A LOT more!!!

Enough to be one of only 30 MLB managers in the country, anyway, which is a step or two above posting on an internet fan board. :D:

jabrch

05-04-2009, 07:59 AM

Ozzie was quoted in the paper Friday as saying he didn't think Ramirez was making adjustments.

I'll shoot the messenger whenever he starts a discussion with Cowley's speculations

ode to veeck

05-04-2009, 09:58 AM

At times last year, Alexi looked like the most seasoned batter the Sox had. He will come around. As for Cowley articles, I give them about as much credence as any thread in the "what's the score" section and Ozzie's actions have always spoke louder than his four letter expletive laced narratives. Nix looks great on D, but needs to get some development at the plate--nice to have a strong D replacement on the bench, especially with some of the D at some positions on this team (at times).

Rdy2PlayBall

05-04-2009, 10:00 AM

Nix only did as well as Alexei last night... I think Alexei needs to try center and Nix and Getz can handle the infield. That makes the team look so much better. It's not like Pods or Lillibrige are any better at center.

soxinem1

05-04-2009, 10:14 AM

Nix only did as well as Alexei last night... I think Alexei needs to try center and Nix and Getz can handle the infield. That makes the team look so much better. It's not like Pods or Lillibrige are any better at center.

This is beating a dead horse. His future is not in CF, he is not a CF, and there is no reason to put him in CF.

I always liked Nix as a minor leaguer, he just could not break the COL logjam in the INF. He has always played excellent defense and shown great footwork and range, and has some pop in his bat.

But Getz is nailing down 2B and lead-off full-time.. He should be out there everyday except for occasional days off. He seems to relish both roles and his field presence and confidence is noticable.

Ramirez has shown more range at SS than he did at 2B. It is clearly his best position, so why move him to a position he definitely is less than comfortable in? To add to his struggles? At least he's helping the team with his defense right now, why take that away?

And despite his two hits last night, Lillibridge is obviously overmatched right now against MLB pitching. He should go to AAA and get playing time, not sit playing once a week or so.

Nix can be a big help here. They should use him right now at SS, 2B, and 3B. Then if someone struggles, gets hurt, or whatever, he can fill in. He looks hungry to play and can help.

Nix should be the utility INF.

LoveYourSuit

05-04-2009, 10:21 AM

At times last year, Alexi looked like the most seasoned batter the Sox had. He will come around. As for Cowley articles, I give them about as much credence as any thread in the "what's the score" section and Ozzie's actions have always spoke louder than his four letter expletive laced narratives. Nix looks great on D, but needs to get some development at the plate--nice to have a strong D replacement on the bench, especially with some of the D at some positions on this team (at times).

False.

At this time last year Alexei was still riding bench behind Uribe.

It took Uribe to get injured in mid May to finally get Alexei on the field full time. It was against the Giants.

I don't know what "seasoned" bat you were watching.

DrCrawdad

05-04-2009, 10:35 AM

Jayson Nix is not a good baseball player. He is worse than Schumaker, and they would have no use for him.

That is my point. He's never been a good offensive player, save last year's fluke.

You are nothing, if not consistent. Slam the Sox. Defend the Cubbies.

Did you even bother to look at Nix stats before you spouted that negativity? On what do you base your view that Nix is not a good ballplayer?

How can you say Nix has "NEVER been a good offensive player" when you admit that he's had at least one good year? Try looking at his stats this time (http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=nix---001jay).

I'd make similarly objective posts...

"Objective posts" my (rear end)!

MISoxfan

05-04-2009, 10:35 AM

When did he ever say at this time last year?

Craig Grebeck

05-04-2009, 10:37 AM

Well, Joe Morgan weighed in on the issue of Jayson Nix' defensive ability tonight and he, too, said that Nix got high marks for his range, arm and defensive ability at 2B.

Think Joe Morgan knows a thing or two about defense at 2B? I do. what's more, I've seen nothing about Nix' game that makes me think Carney Lansford or Morgan is wrong that Nix is a superior defender at 2B.

As for his hitting, I suppose the jury is still out. To be fair, Nix did hit over .400 in both spring training and his rehab in the minors. In the Sox loss tonight, Nix went 2-3 with the Sox' only RBI.

Look, if Nix shows any kind of offensive game, then the Sox have two good young second basemen on the major league roster and perhaps have the depth to trade for an outfielder/leadoff man. In this regard, I still think that the Sox match up well with St. Louis and their glut of outfielders but dearth of second basemen.
You take the spring training statistics, a rehab assignment, and Joe Morgan's awful commentary that says Nix is average or better, and I'll take the 3000+ AB in the minors that say otherwise.

He has never had an offensive game, and only broke out when he was a) too old for his league b) going through it for the third time and c) in Colorado Springs!

Stats have context.

soxinem1

05-04-2009, 10:39 AM

Well, Joe Morgan weighed in on the issue of Jayson Nix' defensive ability tonight and he, too, said that Nix got high marks for his range, arm and defensive ability at 2B.

Think Joe Morgan knows a thing or two about defense at 2B? I do. what's more, I've seen nothing about Nix' game that makes me think Carney Lansford or Morgan is wrong that Nix is a superior defender at 2B.

Maybe so. Morgan's insight is good in some respects, but he also noted that CIN made a mistake trading Josh Hamilton for Edinson Volquez. His logic was that you never give up a big bat playing in a park like the Reds have.

I disagree strongly. Developing pitchers is a lot tougher that hitting, especially today. Good hitters can be aquired much easier than pitchers.

Craig Grebeck

05-04-2009, 10:41 AM

You are nothing, if not consistent. Slam the Sox. Defend the Cubbies.

Did you even bother to look at Nix stats before you spouted that negativity? On what do you base your view that Nix is not a good ballplayer?

How can you say Nix has "NEVER been a good offensive player" when you admit that he's had at least one good year? Try looking at his stats this time (http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=nix---001jay).

"Objective posts" my (rear end)!
Craw, for ****'s sake man. Nix has never been a good offensive ballplayer! That's not a statement that makes me a Cub fan, but rather a statement that shows I understand the volatility of minor league statistics. I've already got the B-R tab open in my computer.

Nix had three straight seasons in his 21-23 years where he couldn't crack a .700 OPS, and a third where he couldn't crack .800. Yes, he had a fragmented season in Colorado Springs where he put it all together -- but if you want to state that Nix is a good hitter based on this (and spring training statistics as well as a minor league rehab assignment, as cards has done), then suit yourself.

Like I said, stats have context, and if you don't understand this, statistics are useless.

And enough of this witch-hunt on your part. It is total rubbish. Do you know why I will go to my grave saying that Nix is not an average ballplayer? Because Chris Getz is his superior, and it would kill me to see him losing AB in favor of a mediocre Nix.

DonnieDarko

05-04-2009, 10:56 AM

If Alexei proves last year was a fluke, Beckham will be taking over.

Why do so many people think this? The guy has a lot of errors thusfar IIRC while playing SS. I think that Beckham is destined more for 2B than SS. As for Alexei, I would have no problem with him sitting on the bench for a bit if he doesn't produce. Wasn't there something that he changed in his stance from last year? I remember hearing it earlier in the year from Stone I think. That could be part of the issue.

DrCrawdad

05-04-2009, 11:13 AM

Craw, for ****'s sake man. Nix has never been a good offensive ballplayer! That's not a statement that makes me a Cub fan, but rather a statement that shows I understand the volatility of minor league statistics. I've already got the B-R tab open in my computer.

Nix had three straight seasons in his 21-23 years where he couldn't crack a .700 OPS, and a third where he couldn't crack .800. Yes, he had a fragmented season in Colorado Springs where he put it all together -- but if you want to state that Nix is a good hitter based on this (and spring training statistics as well as a minor league rehab assignment, as cards has done), then suit yourself.

Like I said, stats have context, and if you don't understand this, statistics are useless.

And enough of this witch-hunt on your part. It is total rubbish. Do you know why I will go to my grave saying that Nix is not an average ballplayer? Because Chris Getz is his superior, and it would kill me to see him losing AB in favor of a mediocre Nix.

I love your selective use of stats to suit your negative view of a Sox player, ignoring the 3 years of good numbers (2001, 2003, 2007, 2008).

"Nix has never been good in the years I've selected, except for one..." I love that "objective" reasoning.

What do you think of Nix defensive abilities?

Where in this discussion did I call you "a Cub fan?" I said that you defend the Cubs and slam the Sox, which is true.

"Witch-hunt?" this from a guy who patrols WSI and specifically "What's The Score?" for posts about the Cubbies and loves to slam those who have the temerity to be critical of the Cubbies here.

voodoochile

05-04-2009, 11:31 AM

Craw, for ****'s sake man. Nix has never been a good offensive ballplayer! That's not a statement that makes me a Cub fan, but rather a statement that shows I understand the volatility of minor league statistics. I've already got the B-R tab open in my computer.

Nix had three straight seasons in his 21-23 years where he couldn't crack a .700 OPS, and a third where he couldn't crack .800. Yes, he had a fragmented season in Colorado Springs where he put it all together -- but if you want to state that Nix is a good hitter based on this (and spring training statistics as well as a minor league rehab assignment, as cards has done), then suit yourself.

Like I said, stats have context, and if you don't understand this, statistics are useless.

And enough of this witch-hunt on your part. It is total rubbish. Do you know why I will go to my grave saying that Nix is not an average ballplayer? Because Chris Getz is his superior, and it would kill me to see him losing AB in favor of a mediocre Nix.

I love your selective use of stats to suit your negative view of a Sox player, ignoring the 3 years of good numbers (2001, 2003, 2007, 2008).

"Nix has never been good in the years I've selected, except for one..." I love that "objective" reasoning.

What do you think of Nix defensive abilities?

Where in this discussion did I call you "a Cub fan?" I said that you defend the Cubs and slam the Sox, which is true.

"Witch-hunt?" this from a guy who patrols WSI and specifically "What's The Score?" for posts about the Cubbies and loves to slam those who have the temerity to be critical of the Cubbies here.

I'm not splitting this thread.

I'm not moving this thread.

If you two hijack this thread with your flubsessed accusations, I'll simply give you both rips.

Maybe it's time to put each other on ignore. You aren't adding ANYTHING to the conversation with your pointless constant bickering over this topic.

Not gonna issue another warning. Got it?

cards press box

05-04-2009, 11:54 AM

Do you know why I will go to my grave saying that Nix is not an average ballplayer? Because Chris Getz is his superior, and it would kill me to see him losing AB in favor of a mediocre Nix.

I don't want to see Nix take away at bats from Getz, either. Getz is the better player and hopefully he plays with the Sox for a long time.

I'm only saying this: (a) Nix is an excellent defender at 2B, (b) the Cardinals' achilles heel right now is their defense, particularly at 2B, (c) the Cards have a glut of outfielders and can't find a regular spot for Skip Schumaker, (d) if Nix shows any potential with the bat, then the Sox should explore a deal in which Nix and Schumaker are the principals.

I realize that St. Louis wouldn't deal Schumaker for Nix straight up. But perhaps the Sox could get the deal done throwing in a second tier pitching prospect.

I know that Nix is not the second coming of Rogers Hornsby. But the Cards don't need that. They need an excellent glove who can hit o.k., something in the .250 range. Nix can do that.

Perhaps the way to get this done is for the Sox to play Nix a bit and showcase his abilities.

DrCrawdad

05-04-2009, 12:06 PM

I don't want to see Nix take away at bats from Getz, either. Getz is the better player and hopefully he plays with the Sox for a long time.

I'm only saying this: (a) Nix is an excellent defender at 2B, (b) the Cardinals' achilles heel right now is their defense, particularly at 2B, (c) the Cards have a glut of outfielders and can't find a regular spot for Skip Schumaker, (d) if Nix shows any potential with the bat, then the Sox should explore a deal in which Nix and Schumaker are the principals.

I realize that St. Louis wouldn't deal Schumaker for Nix straight up. But perhaps the Sox could get the deal done throwing in a second tier pitching prospect.

I know that Nix is not the second coming of Rogers Hornsby. But the Cards don't need that. They need an excellent glove who can hit o.k., something in the .250 range. Nix can do that.

Perhaps the way to get this done is for the Sox to play Nix a bit and showcase his abilities.

I completely agree with your assessment of Nix and your view of Getz.

russ99

05-04-2009, 12:10 PM

Craw, for ****'s sake man. Nix has never been a good offensive ballplayer! That's not a statement that makes me a Cub fan, but rather a statement that shows I understand the volatility of minor league statistics. I've already got the B-R tab open in my computer.

Nix had three straight seasons in his 21-23 years where he couldn't crack a .700 OPS, and a third where he couldn't crack .800. Yes, he had a fragmented season in Colorado Springs where he put it all together -- but if you want to state that Nix is a good hitter based on this (and spring training statistics as well as a minor league rehab assignment, as cards has done), then suit yourself.

Like I said, stats have context, and if you don't understand this, statistics are useless.

Again, someone using OPS to judge a hitter with little to no power. Can this please stop? We're not talking about Dye or Thome here. Look at the whole picture, not generalize with one stat that's heavily weighted in favor of hitters who hit lots of homers and doubles.

What's not to like about this guy? He plays well on defense, has shown he can hit the baseball at the minor league level (despite 2 bad months in the bigs with the Rockies) and from what I've heard acts like a consummate pro.

I agree, Getz should be starting at 2B, but Nix certainly has a place on the team.

DrCrawdad

05-04-2009, 12:30 PM

again, someone using ops to judge a hitter with little to no power. Can this please stop? We're not talking about dye or thome here. Look at the whole picture, not generalize with one stat that's heavily weighted in favor of hitters who hit lots of homers and doubles.

What's not to like about this guy? He plays well on defense, has shown he can hit the baseball at the minor league level (despite 2 bad months in the bigs with the rockies) and from what i've heard acts like a consummate pro.

I agree, getz should be starting at 2b, but nix certainly has a place on the team.

thank you!

KMcMahon817

05-04-2009, 01:16 PM

This is beating a dead horse. His future is not in CF, he is not a CF, and there is no reason to put him in CF.

Ramirez has shown more range at SS than he did at 2B. It is clearly his best position, so why move him to a position he definitely is less than comfortable in? To add to his struggles? At least he's helping the team with his defense right now, why take that away?

Did you watch the game last night? He let two groundballs between SS and 3B go into the outfield, both of which scored a run, and both of which could have been either knocked down or fielded. I am not saying Alexei isnt a good defensive player, because he is, but I don't know about him "helping the team with his defense right now". Not to mention that God awful game against Toronto a little over a week ago.

voodoochile

05-04-2009, 01:26 PM

Did you watch the game last night? He let two groundballs between SS and 3B go into the outfield, both of which scored a run, and both of which could have been either knocked down or fielded. I am not saying Alexei isnt a good defensive player, because he is, but I don't know about him "helping the team with his defense right now". Not to mention that God awful game against Toronto a little over a week ago.

At least his bat is starting to come around. He's up to .210 which is a major jump in the last few weeks. In fact in the last 10 games he's reached base safely in 7 of them and has raised his BA 53 points. He's also had 3 of his 4 XBH and had 3 of his 5 stolen bases. He's still only been caught once and he's starting to put good wood on the ball. He should be left alone for the next few weeks at least to see if he can continue the climb. You don't bench last year's second best AL rookie because he's off to a rough start in early May in his second year in the majors.

oeo

05-04-2009, 01:31 PM

Did you watch the game last night? He let two groundballs between SS and 3B go into the outfield, both of which scored a run, and both of which could have been either knocked down or fielded. I am not saying Alexei isnt a good defensive player, because he is, but I don't know about him "helping the team with his defense right now". Not to mention that God awful game against Toronto a little over a week ago.

How do you know he could get to those? Since ESPN is unfocused on the actual baseball game on hand, I have no idea. I don't know where Alexei was positioned. He's already shown incredible range so far this year, if he was positioned more up the middle, chalk those up as a couple of seeing-eye singles...and while the Rangers hit some balls hard last night, they sure had a lot of cheapies, too.

UofCSoxFan

05-04-2009, 02:08 PM

How do you know he could get to those? Since ESPN is unfocused on the actual baseball game on hand, I have no idea. I don't know where Alexei was positioned. He's already shown incredible range so far this year, if he was positioned more up the middle, chalk those up as a couple of seeing-eye singles...and while the Rangers hit some balls hard last night, they sure had a lot of cheapies, too.

Keep in mind too that Arlington has probably the fastest grass infield in baseball so while balls look like they should be caught off the bat, often they shoot through.

DaveFeelsRight

05-04-2009, 02:18 PM

If Alexei was going to be replaced by anyone, why would it be Jayson Nix? I mean it could be, um...oh, I don't know...GORDON BECKHAM.

sorry, not gonna happen. Alexei won't be replaced by Jayson Nix. His defense has been good at SS.
ozzie said if we bring up beckham right now then we're in trouble. and i agree

Craig Grebeck

05-04-2009, 04:22 PM

I'm not splitting this thread.

I'm not moving this thread.

If you two hijack this thread with your flubsessed accusations, I'll simply give you both rips.

Maybe it's time to put each other on ignore. You aren't adding ANYTHING to the conversation with your pointless constant bickering over this topic.

Not gonna issue another warning. Got it?
Gotcha.

I don't want to see Nix take away at bats from Getz, either. Getz is the better player and hopefully he plays with the Sox for a long time.

I'm only saying this: (a) Nix is an excellent defender at 2B, (b) the Cardinals' achilles heel right now is their defense, particularly at 2B, (c) the Cards have a glut of outfielders and can't find a regular spot for Skip Schumaker, (d) if Nix shows any potential with the bat, then the Sox should explore a deal in which Nix and Schumaker are the principals.

I realize that St. Louis wouldn't deal Schumaker for Nix straight up. But perhaps the Sox could get the deal done throwing in a second tier pitching prospect.

I know that Nix is not the second coming of Rogers Hornsby. But the Cards don't need that. They need an excellent glove who can hit o.k., something in the .250 range. Nix can do that.

Perhaps the way to get this done is for the Sox to play Nix a bit and showcase his abilities.
The Cardinals probably aren't interested in giving up Schumaker for a guy who will hit (given your assessment) .250/.300/.340 or so. Why not just sign Grudz in that case?
Again, someone using OPS to judge a hitter with little to no power. Can this please stop? We're not talking about Dye or Thome here. Look at the whole picture, not generalize with one stat that's heavily weighted in favor of hitters who hit lots of homers and doubles.

What's not to like about this guy? He plays well on defense, has shown he can hit the baseball at the minor league level (despite 2 bad months in the bigs with the Rockies) and from what I've heard acts like a consummate pro.

I agree, Getz should be starting at 2B, but Nix certainly has a place on the team.
When has he hit well, other than 2008? Why did he hit well in 2008 (or better than all other years)? Because he hit for power! Power matters. His career line in the minors if .260/.328 (BA/OBP -- SLG omitted for your sake).

I love your selective use of stats to suit your negative view of a Sox player, ignoring the 3 years of good numbers (2001, 2003, 2007, 2008).

You can call it selective, I'll call it contextual. Look at Colorado Springs, look at the age, and look at the number of times at that level. Nix is, at the most, a 25th man on a major league roster. In all honesty, with a healthy Brian Anderson, Lillibridge and his combination of defense, speed, and versatility (position wise) should be the 25th man over Nix.

KMcMahon817

05-04-2009, 04:57 PM

Gotcha.

In all honesty, with a healthy Brian Anderson, Lillibridge and his combination of defense, speed, and versatility (position wise) should be the 25th man over Nix.

Let's give Nix a few more days to show what he's got before we make these kind's of judgements. But, from what I saw last night, he would be alot more valuable than anything I have seen from Lillibridge (minus the fact he can play outfield). I'm not knocking Brent either, I think he'll be a decent ballplayer somewhere down the line, but he is a bit overmatched at the plate right now.

oeo

05-04-2009, 05:00 PM

In all honesty, with a healthy Brian Anderson, Lillibridge and his combination of defense, speed, and versatility (position wise) should be the 25th man over Nix.

I'd like to see Nix over Pods. We need someone that can field ground balls since apparently Wilson Betemit never learned how.

voodoochile

05-04-2009, 05:02 PM

Let's give Nix a few more days to show what he's got before we make these kind's of judgements. But, from what I saw last night, he would be alot more valuable than anything I have seen from Lillibridge (minus the fact he can play outfield). I'm not knocking Brent either, I think he'll be a decent ballplayer somewhere down the line, but he is a bit overmatched at the plate right now.

Well once we get Dye and BA or Wise back, Lillibridge's OF play becomes less important by a long shot. Once we get them all back, it's completely moot. Then it comes down to his bat and unless he takes a major step in the next 4 weeks, I have no problem sending him down if we can.

voodoochile

05-04-2009, 05:05 PM

I'd like to see Nix over Pods. We need someone that can field ground balls since apparently Wilson Betemit never learned how.

Betemit is on the team mostly for his stick and to give PK and Fields a day off now and then. He's fine in that role. You have to have some competent pinch hitters available, especially with guys like Lillibridge forced to start.

oeo

05-04-2009, 05:12 PM

Betemit is on the team mostly for his stick and to give PK and Fields a day off now and then. He's fine in that role. You have to have some competent pinch hitters available, especially with guys like Lillibridge forced to start.

I didn't say knock Betemit off the team, but he's obviously not okay in his current role, when he boots most of the ground balls that are hit to him. That's ridiculous. This is a big league player we're talking about. He can't field a ground ball, or even catch the ball at first base?

I think I'd be more inclined to put him LF before ever having him at third base again. Maybe even over first base, since he decided to **** up every opportunity last night.

cards press box

05-04-2009, 05:40 PM

The Cardinals probably aren't interested in giving up Schumaker for a guy who will hit (given your assessment) .250/.300/.340 or so. Why not just sign Grudz in that case?

Grudzielanek turns 39 this year. Nix is 26.

Craig Grebeck

05-04-2009, 05:45 PM

Grudzielanek turns 39 this year. Nix is 26.
Production is production. I doubt there are many teams that would acquire Jayson Nix because he is young, as that implies that teams believe he can be a long(ish) term contributor.

ode to veeck

05-05-2009, 01:01 AM

Let's give Nix a few more days to show what he's got before we make these kind's of judgements. But, from what I saw last night, he would be alot more valuable than anything I have seen from Lillibridge (minus the fact he can play outfield). I'm not knocking Brent either, I think he'll be a decent ballplayer somewhere down the line, but he is a bit overmatched at the plate right now.

welcome to WSI by the way

KMcMahon817

05-05-2009, 02:06 AM

Thank you sir, I am a few posts away from reaching your status I see.

Nellie_Fox

05-05-2009, 02:10 AM

Thank you sir, I am a few posts away from reaching your status I see.You are not your post count.