Other People's Prayers

Respect is a two-way street.

In 1263, the great Spanish scholar Rabbi Moses ben Nahman, better known
as Nahmanides, was summoned to Barcelona by King James I of Aragon to
engage in a rather stressful form of interfaith dialogue with
representatives of the Dominican and Franciscan religious orders.

Their debate is known to history as the Disputation of Barcelona. The
purpose of those who initiated the event (principally, an apostate Jew)
was to compel the conversion of Spanish Jewry to Christianity.
Guaranteed freedom of speech, Nahmanides, the sole Jewish
representative in the proceedings, gave as good as he got in a
free-wheeling medieval rhetorical brawl, in which both sides made it
clear how little they thought of their opponents' faith.

Though given a reward by the king for his performance, Nahmanides was
eventually forced to flee the country because of the church's anger. In
particular, Pope Clement IV sought to punish the rabbi for his
courageous defense of Judaism.

Catholic Revival

Flash forward 745 years, and some the lessons of the Disputation still
stand. Public arguments about matters of faith can be a dangerous game
whose outcome often serves the purposes of those who wish to spread
intolerance rather than knowledge.

Though the context of the present day couldn't be any more different
than the circumstances of 1263 Barcelona, many Jews appear to be
thinking about interfaith relations with this piece of sad history
still in mind.

The latest irritant in Catholic-Jewish relations is the result of the
church's revival of an Easter Week devotion in which believers asked to
pray for the conversion of the Jews

As part of an effort to break down divisions within Catholicism that
had grown up around the abandonment of the Latin Mass, last year Pope
Benedict XVI allowed the saying of the Tridentine rite. The prayer,
which was dropped by the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s, spoke of
Jewish "blindness" and asked the Almighty to "remove the veil from
their hearts."

Shocked by this reversion to language that was part of a long history
of the teaching of contempt for Judaism, Jewish leaders asked the
Vatican to reconsider the move. Last week, the Vatican responded by
issuing a new version of the prayer which eliminated the lines about
blindness" and the "veil" over Jewish hearts, but did not omit the call
for conversion.

The Jewish reaction to this move was anguished. The Anti-Defamation
League wrote a letter to the pope asking that he further amend the
prayer. The Conservative, Reform and Reconstructionist
movements are all expected to add their pleas soon.

In response, Cardinal Walter Kasper seemed to express bewilderment at
the sensitivity of the Jews. He told the Italian newspaper Corriere
della Sera, "I don't understand why Jews cannot accept that we can make
use of our freedom to formulate our papers." His point was that the
prayer "reflects the faith of the church, and furthermore Jews have
prayers in their liturgical texts that we Catholics don't like ... one
must respect differences."

Problems arise not from believing these different things, but how we act on those differences.

While the cardinal's statement illustrates the slippery slope down
which this sort of dispute can soon lead to hurt feelings on all sides,
he is, of course, right. Catholics are free to believe whatever they
want about the universal truth of the doctrines of their faith. The
same right must also apply to everyone else when it comes to their
opinions about their own religions and everyone else's. Problems arise
not from believing these different things, but how we act on those
differences.

On that score, it is important for Jews to understand that the Catholic
Church has, in recent generations, moved light years away from the
spirit of the Disputation of Barcelona. Under the inspired leadership
of Pope John XXIII and later Pope John Paul II, the Vatican discarded
the teaching of contempt for Judaism, and introduced new curricula in
their schools and churches based on respect for Judaism and recognition
of past persecutions.

As for proselytizing, unlike many Protestant denominations, the church
has dropped campaigns to specifically target Jews for conversion.

Yet Jewish groups still fear that if the Vatican, in seeking to mollify
its own liturgical conservative wing, moves away from the spirit of
Vatican II, it will mean that Catholics no longer embrace John Paul
II's beliefs that taught Catholics to think of Jews as their
theological older brothers whose legitimacy should not be questioned.

That fear is genuine and it is based, in no small part, on the legacy
of church-based missionizing that was rooted in compulsion and
oppression of Jews.

But as Cardinal Kasper told Vatican Radio in another interview, the
revised prayer "does not mean we are embarking on a mission" to convert
Jews. Rather, they are just expressing their faith.

Jews and Catholics may have many things in common, but they do not
accept the fundamentals of each other's religions. No less than in
1263, Christians believe theirs is the true path to salvation. Jews
still disagree. In societies where religion rules all, such as most of
the Islamic world, such theological differences are just as much a
matter of life and death as they were in Barcelona during the
Disputation.

Agreeing to Disagree

But in free societies such as our own, we can merely say, "vive la
difference" and leave it at that, knowing none of us will be the worse
for wear as a result of our contrasting views about the nature of
eternity or divinity.

Genuine interfaith dialogue is not rooted in agreement, but rather, on
agreement to disagree. The trick is to do so in a civil manner, and to
avoid public attacks on each others faiths that can only lead to
discord and prejudice.

Our challenge comes from forces within Islam whose goal is to dismantle the
edifice of tolerance that Jews and Christians have worked so
hard to create.

Church never chooses to deviate from the path of John Paul II, it is
not for Jews to tell Catholics what to say in their prayers, any more
than it is legitimate for them to go back to trying to censor the
Jewish liturgy as they once did. Respect is a two-way street.

Rather than seek to turn Benedict's revival of the Tridentine mass into
a major issue, what we need to to do is to stop worrying about Catholic
prayers, and instead continue the work of bringing the two faiths
closer together in defense of Western freedoms.

This is a moment in history when the greatest challenge to religious
freedom is not coming from the traditional sources of reaction within
Christianity, such as those that sought to punish Nahmanides for
defending Judaism at Barcelona. Instead, our challenge comes from
forces within Islam that have already sought to censor the beliefs of
Pope Benedict for defending the West. Their goal is to dismantle the
entire edifice of tolerance that Jews and Christians have worked so
hard to create.

Given that reality, this is not the time to pick fights over other
people's prayers.

Visitor Comments: 19

Maybe it is a bit whiny of us to object to this Catholic prayer, but we Jews should be allowed a bit of prickliness at prayers that imply coercive conversion, given our history.

(18)
David R. Pressler,
February 25, 2008 10:45 AM

Agree !!!

Excellent article. Should be promulgated in more Jewish and Christian circles for all to see.Mazal tov for your courage to say it like it is and SHOULD BE in American and Israeli(!) society.

(17)
Lynn R,
February 22, 2008 11:53 AM

Bravo Dr. Zidonov

Quite precisely stated. It is nice to finally read someone has clearly stated the true meaning of "tolerance." We have so twisted the word to accept any and everything and losing our own "self" respect, instead of respecting other's. There is nothing we can do to change other's belief outrightly, the only thing we can do is express why we believe what we believe, provide our evidence, which is Torah, the written word as we can only live by the guidelines HaShem has given. Not by what man says, but by what we know to be true in G*d's Word.

(16)
Shawn B. Zell,
February 20, 2008 8:45 PM

Yasher koach

I wrote an article expressing similar sentiments which was published in the Texas Jewish Post

(15)
anonymous,
February 19, 2008 1:59 PM

Respect is a two-way street.

Put away the victim mentality and the rhetoric. How big is our G-d? Big enough to embrace both Jew and non-Jew alike? Big enough to love all who seek to serve Him and walk in all His ways? Is He interested in the sincere prayers of all people, or only a select few? Isn't it time to put down the exclusive language and reach out to embrace all those created in the image of the Divine? Can't we stop assuming that everyone is against us, and that the prayers of non-Jews are laced with a hidden agenda? Maybe...just maybe..there are those out there who love us unconditionally. We have a hard enough time arguing amongst us about whom we are going to accept as converts. How big is our G-d??

(14)
Reg Saretsky,
February 19, 2008 7:51 AM

Catholics have become syncretic...

Like many baptised Catholics who draw their personal faith from many sources, including Torah, we are bemused at the "hammer them back to the Catholic line" movement in the current Vatican.

The presence of Jews has enlightened all religions. Middle Eastern Islam has been shaken out of its torpor since the founding of Israel

BTW, a contemporary painting of the Barcelona debate in Hexter & Pipes' texts shows The Torah bursting into flames as the Boss Dominican speaks.....

He who rules the propaganda wins,I guess...

(13)
Anonymous,
February 18, 2008 7:41 PM

Let Jew's be Jew's

I don't believe that trying to get the Jews to move away from Torah is right. You are after all G-d's chosen people. Iam a G-dfearer. Since Hashem started with the Jew's I don't have a problem with them not believing in Jesus as Messiah; they are waiting for Messiah just as much as the rest of the world. Our prayers are ours however and I don't believe that just because someone else states a prayer that I have to agree with or say that prayer. I own a siddur and I love the prayers that are in it because they come straight from the Bible. You can't do any better than that. When we try to make others believe just as we do in a way we do call for their deaths; for we are asking them to deny what they have always known. So let the Jew's be Jew's and let our prayers be our own and not someone else's. Please pray for the peace of Jerusalem. Shalom

(12)
Robert,
February 18, 2008 6:05 PM

So what?

The world has spread lies about the Jews for thousands of years...why should this particular prayer by this particular religion bother us so much?

(11)
Anonymous,
February 18, 2008 12:59 PM

Peace to all

IÂ´m Christian, and I respect and consider Judaism as the root of my beliefs,for me Jews and Christians are brothers in God AlmightyÂ´s love. We just need to learn to live respectfully with each other. And just put differences aside and agree we have to focus on what we have in common.

(10)
Alan Levitt,
February 17, 2008 7:06 PM

Zionism

The truth is that the Pope and al Catholics have to deal with the fact that Israel exists and that Jerusalem is part of Israel. And as a corollary we Jews still exist.

(9)
Anonymous,
February 17, 2008 4:44 PM

I totally agree.

I am Christian, and I totally agree with this article. We need to focus on what we have in common.

(8)
Anonymous,
February 17, 2008 2:41 PM

I don't care for what the Pope has done.

I believe that the Pope did what he did to placate those Catholics who reject the teachings of Vatican II. This is a small group of Catholics yet they have journals such as The Wanderer and the Remnant which are anti-Semitic. I suspect that some of these people would like to go back to the good old days when they could call Jews "Christ killers" and get away with it.

(7)
Anonymous,
February 17, 2008 1:56 PM

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum = shalom

What a wonderful article - every Church and Synagogue should display it.

(6)
Andras Bereny,
February 17, 2008 12:50 PM

This seems to be a tipical American article

This seems to be a typical American article in as much as it is a hymn for "vive la difference" and "in free societies such as our own", etc. So where does it leave Israel, the so called "Jewish" State and those who would want Jewish Law to be the law of the land? Catholics have their Vatican, Islamic states form a built in majority in many UN agencies, only the Jews are not allowed to have but a militantly atheist State. Jews like myself, who believe that the Torah is the Constitution of the World are stateless and this is bad, even tragic not only for the Jews, but for everyone

(5)
Yosef,
February 17, 2008 11:47 AM

Mazel Tov !

As a Jew that 100% loves The Torah of HASHEM, I think that it is good to be on civil, respectful terms with our Christian neighbors and friends. As long as both parties speak their minds with consideration and respect, then I say " great ". The world is a big place. .....it need not be a battleground !

(4)
Dr. Michael Zidonov,
February 17, 2008 11:23 AM

DON'T CONFUSE THE TWO ...

Often, and erroneously, Respect and Tolerance are confused to be and taken to be the same thing. That confusion has a most damaging affect on growth and enlightenment in any aspect of Human existence. Tolerance, is the absolute worst concept that anyone can commit himself to. If one begins to Tolerate that which is foreign or anathema to him, with the best and most proper intentions of course, one eventually begins to "Tolerate" that which is patently wrong and completely against the Truth. Once that kind of thinking, or non-thinking, becomes habitual, one finds that he appears not only to Tolerate that which is wrong but to give, at least, tacit approval to that wrong and he ultimately is understood to condone that wrong, in total violation of everything Torah teaches. ... Because we were all given Free Will by Ha'Shem at Creation, we are all endowed with the indisputable and irrevocable Right, to be wrong. With power and authority comes Responsibility, and while we have the Free Will to be wrong, we are also duty bound to Respect the Right of others to Believe differently, think differently, and Be different from us. But in that sense of Duty, nowhere are we required to participate in, or allow ourselves or anybody else to harmed by that which is wrong in order to evidence or prove up RESPECT for others' Rights. ... These are universal truths that have given us all the myriad of Postulates and Axioms that we have tried to live by for thousands of years, such as; "Your Freedom to Swing Your Fist Stops at the End of My Nose" or "Live and Let Live" ... And we must remember the exhortation of Torah to "Work Against Evil In Every Fashion", which does not contravene our Duty to Respect others, because all of that which is wrong to/for us is not necessarily evil in and of itself. When Wrong becomes the norm because we have been Tolerant, we have no one to blame for the demise of Truth and Torah Values but ourselves. Recall the words of Max Planck, Nobel Prize Winner 1918; "A New Truth Does Not Triumph by Convincing Its Opponents and Making Them See the Light. Rather, Because Its Opponents Eventually Die and a New Generation Grows Up That Is Familiar With It." We must Respect others' Right to be different, we must oppose that which we know is wrong and embrace the Truth as we have been taught by Torah. We must Tolerate, Nothing.

(3)
shells,
February 17, 2008 11:13 AM

bravo Johnathon

thank you Johnathon... I think you made some very valid points and I for one admit openly that I am learning all the time as is everyone else... for nobody but G-d knows everything and He will have a plan to help us praise be to G-d bring us all closer together so that we can all learn to live happily together and concentrate on reducing the sufferings that have gone on far too long. thank you for your words. shalom Shells x

(2)
Alan S.,
February 17, 2008 10:53 AM

Yea verily ....words don't hurt....suicide bombers do.

Mr. Tobin very well says all that needs to be said concerning this issue. Jewish people worldwide need to befriend the Roman Catholics, as they are not calling for our collective deaths. Who care about the exact words they use to pray. Their words cannot hurt a single life. Our attention should not be diverted at this time in history when Muslims use a distorted interpretation of their holy book to kill.

(1)
Harris S Levy,
February 17, 2008 10:43 AM

Amen v;amen!

This truly placed the problem in full view. Let us no worry about esoterica in prayers (we can handle the few crazies who will overreact) while there are countless millions of such who are already dedicated to our destruction and working feverishly day by day to succeed.

I'm told that it's a mitzvah to become intoxicated on Purim. This puzzles me, because to my understanding, it is not considered a good thing to become intoxicated, period.

One of the characteristics of the at-risk youth is their use of drugs, including alcohol. In my experience, getting drunk doesn't reveal secrets. It makes people act stupid and irresponsible, doing things they would never do if they were sober. Also, I know a lot about the horrible health effects of abusing alcohol, because I work at a research center that focuses on addiction and substance abuse.

Also, I am an alcoholic, which means that if I drink, very bad things happen. I have not had a drink in 22 years, and I have no intention of starting now. Surely there must be instances where a person is excused from the obligation to drink. I don't see how Judaism could ever promote the idea of getting drunk. It just doesn't seem right.

The Aish Rabbi Replies:

Putting aside for a moment all the spiritual and philosophical reasons for getting drunk on Purim, this remains an issue of common sense. Of course, teenagers should be warned of the dangers of acute alcohol ingestion. Of course, nobody should drink and drive. Of course, nobody should become so drunk to the point of negligence in performing mitzvot. And of course, a recovering alcoholic should not partake of alcohol on Purim.

Indeed, the Code of Jewish Law explicitly says that if one suspects the drinking may affect him negatively, then he should NOT drink.

Getting drunk on Purim is actually one of the most difficult mitzvot to do correctly. A person should only drink if it will lead to positive spiritual results - e.g. under the loosening affect of the alcohol, greater awareness will surface of the love for God and Torah found deep in the heart. (Perhaps if we were on a higher spiritual level, we wouldn't need to get drunk!)

Yet the Talmud still speaks of an obligation on Purim of "not knowing the difference between Blessed is Mordechai and Cursed is Haman." How then should a person who doesn't drink get the point of “not knowing”? Simple - just go to sleep! (Rama - OC 695:2)

All this applies to individuals. But the question remains - does drinking on Purim adversely affect the collective social health of the Jewish community?

The aversion to alcoholism is engrained into Jewish consciousness from a number of Biblical and Talmudic sources. There are the rebuking words of prophets - Isaiah 28:1, Hosea 3:1 with Rashi, and Amos 6:6, and the Zohar says that "The wicked stray after wine" (Midrash Ne'alam Parshat Vayera).

It is well known that the rate of alcoholism among Jews has historically been very low. Numerous medical, psychological and sociological studies have confirmed this. The connection between Judaism and sobriety is so evident, that the following conversation is reported by Lawrence Kelemen in "Permission to Receive":

When Dr. Mark Keller, editor of the Quarterly Journal of Studies on Alcohol, commented that "practically all Jews do drink, and yet all the world knows that Jews hardly ever become alcoholics," his colleague, Dr. Howard Haggard, director of Yale's Laboratory of Applied Physiology, jokingly proposed converting alcoholics to the Jewish religion in order to immerse them in a culture with healthy attitudes toward drinking!

Perhaps we could suggest that it is precisely because of the use of alcohol in traditional ceremonies (Kiddush, Bris, Purim, etc.), that Jews experience such low rates of alcoholism. This ceremonial usage may actually act like an inoculation - i.e. injecting a safe amount that keeps the disease away.

Of course, as we said earlier, all this needs to be monitored with good common sense. Yet in my personal experience - having been in the company of Torah scholars who were totally drunk on Purim - they acted with extreme gentleness and joy. Amid the Jewish songs and beautiful words of Torah, every year the event is, for me, very special.

Adar 12 marks the dedication of Herod's renovations on the second Holy Temple in Jerusalem in 11 BCE. Herod was king of Judea in the first century BCE who constructed grand projects like the fortresses at Masada and Herodium, the city of Caesarea, and fortifications around the old city of Jerusalem. The most ambitious of Herod's projects was the re-building of the Temple, which was in disrepair after standing over 300 years. Herod's renovations included a huge man-made platform that remains today the largest man-made platform in the world. It took 10,000 men 10 years just to build the retaining walls around the Temple Mount; the Western Wall that we know today is part of that retaining wall. The Temple itself was a phenomenal site, covered in gold and marble. As the Talmud says, "He who has not seen Herod's building, has never in his life seen a truly grand building."

Some people gauge the value of themselves by what they own. But in reality, the entire concept of ownership of possessions is based on an illusion. When you obtain a material object, it does not become part of you. Ownership is merely your right to use specific objects whenever you wish.

How unfortunate is the person who has an ambition to cleave to something impossible to cleave to! Such a person will not obtain what he desires and will experience suffering.

Fortunate is the person whose ambition it is to acquire personal growth that is independent of external factors. Such a person will lead a happy and rewarding life.

With exercising patience you could have saved yourself 400 zuzim (Berachos 20a).

This Talmudic proverb arose from a case where someone was fined 400 zuzim because he acted in undue haste and insulted some one.

I was once pulling into a parking lot. Since I was a bit late for an important appointment, I was terribly annoyed that the lead car in the procession was creeping at a snail's pace. The driver immediately in front of me was showing his impatience by sounding his horn. In my aggravation, I wanted to join him, but I saw no real purpose in adding to the cacophony.

When the lead driver finally pulled into a parking space, I saw a wheelchair symbol on his rear license plate. He was handicapped and was obviously in need of the nearest parking space. I felt bad that I had harbored such hostile feelings about him, but was gratified that I had not sounded my horn, because then I would really have felt guilty for my lack of consideration.

This incident has helped me to delay my reactions to other frustrating situations until I have more time to evaluate all the circumstances. My motives do not stem from lofty principles, but from my desire to avoid having to feel guilt and remorse for having been foolish or inconsiderate.

Today I shall...

try to withhold impulsive reaction, bearing in mind that a hasty act performed without full knowledge of all the circumstances may cause me much distress.

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