So no I wouldn't say it could switch in to any set, especially if it has any prior damage on it, it risks being 2hko'd by scizor's choice band bullet punch. Meaning all Scizor really has to do to beat a switching in chandelure is BP it once, switch out to something that will force Chandelure out, then Chandelure won't be able to take another BP because of the SR damage that is chandelure's biggest flaw (even moreso than it's subpar speed).

With that said though, I wouldn't be risking my scizor to flame body, and if I was going to attempt to do anything to chandelure with a scizor I'd wait til it locked itself into shadow ball or something then pursuit it. Most Chandelure in OU are choiced.

as cool as chandelure is, it has a number of debilitating flaws that keep it from attaining c-tier viability in my opinion. being a fire type in a rain-centric metagame isn't exactly ideal. though it does have a useful secondary stab in ghost, chandelure sure-as-hell doesn't like having its fire stab crippled. whilst it is most effective under strong sunlight, it's not really a good choice for sun team as it doesn't bring anything new to the table, whilst simply compounding the team's weaknesses. not only is it weak to sr, but it is also vulnerable to spikes, toxic and sandstorm/hail damage. combine that with a mediocre speed stat that basically forces you to run it with a choice scarf, and a shallow movepool - and you have quite an average pokemon despite that lovely base 145 sp.attack stat. it faces a lot of competition from other scarfers who are faster, have better coverage and don't have so many crippling weaknesses. yeah you may be able to clean up a weatherless offensive team once in a while, but overall i'd say chandelure isn't worth it in the long run. it may have a few nifty perks as you've already mentioned, but it's not really enough to bring it into the limelight of c-tier (plus it can only really spinblock vs. forretress). d-tier seems like a good place for it, given the few niches it does occupy.

I personally think that Garchomp, aka Chomper, should be S Rank because it's one of the most threatening Pokemons of the game. We shouldn't forget that it was Uber before getting unbanned recently. Garchomp has now access to Aqua Tail which allows it to be very effective in Rain and to hit Lando-T / Gliscor without using Outrage and getting locked on it then (and so being RKable).

The SubSD Salac is absolutely horrible to face, it's able to decimate an entire team with very little team support. It also works very well as an SRer, a Bander and a Scarfer (especially in the current metagame). It's only real counter is Skarmory (that gets 2HKO'd by Aqua Tail in Rain from CBChomp) and it isn't that much used in the current metagame. It's also faster than the famous Landorus which is an extremely important point in my opinion. I won't even talk about it's bulk for such an amazing sweeper... (it's ability is really cool too).

Keldeo should be S-Rank as well seeing how it's able to destroy 95% of the Metagame with Secret Sword + Hydropump. It only has a few counters that are 2HKO'd by Hidden Power Ghost from the Specs and easily trap'd by Tyranitar, maybe Keldeo's favorite teammates. It has the same bulky as Terrakion but it resists to priority moves like BPunch / IShard which is very positive. As I just said it, it only needs a very little team support (Politoed or Tyranitar are enough) and is probably the best sweeper of the tier with Landorus. Definitely an S-Rank.

===== You know, I think Hydreigon for A-tier supporters actually have some ground to stand on. There's more to Hydreigon than just being uncounterable; Hydreigon is really good against most Sandstorm teams. It has this one key advantage over Latios, who vulnerable to Tyranitar. Hydreigon comes out on top against most members of sand: Tar / Celebi / Landorus / Heatran / Forretress / Hippowdon / Rotom-W all lose to Hydreigon one way or another, they'll lose. The catch is Terrakion, who is commonly found on sand teams, but other than that Hydreigon easily wipes the floor with Sand. Of course, a good Sand player like say... BKC, wouldn't let Hydreigon walk over his team, but if an equally good player were using Hydreigon to its maximum potential I could see it giving sand trouble. Not many players use Hydreigon in a competitive environment, but i've seen like Ginku use it in a tournament match, and Eo (or he did when I last talked to him) so it isn't just a Pokemon used by noobs or casuals. It's plagued by its unfortunate typing, sure but nothing is perfect.

I want to give it some more thought though.

Food for thought: If Drizzle were banned, I wouldn't hesitate to make this change, since Hydreigon beats sun & sand no problem.

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Alright here's a more in depth explanation about Hydreigon dealing with Drizzle counters.

Drizzle is definitely a factor in keeping Hydreigon from being one of the best Dragons in OU, however unlike Latios and Latias Hydreigon actually stands a chance against it's most common counters such as Ferrothorn and SpD Jirachi. For example, Standard Ferrothorn (252 HP/168 SpDef) in the Rain can't even safely come in on Hydreigon. For example, if Ferrothorn switches into Hydreigon's Draco Meteor, it does roughly 34.38% - 40.62% to it, not counting Stealth Rocks. Since most people will expect you to switch out, they'll keep their Ferrothorn in. This gives you a chance to surprise them with a Superpower, which deals roughly 44.89% - 52.84%. Factoring in Stealth Rocks, Ferrothorn is pretty much fucked seeing as it has no means of reliable recovery, and what ever move you use next will kill it in one hit.

Hydreigon's next Drizzle road block is Specially Defensive Jirachi. Let's be honest here, pretty much every dragon with the exception of Garchomp have a problem with this asshole. Jirachi is meant to be a complete counter to Special Dragons, so using the excuse "Hydreigon can't handle Jirachi so it's deemed un A worthy" is a terrible argument. Physical Dragons even hate it! A +1 Adamant Scarf Salamence fails to OHKO it with Earthquake, just barely missing the OHKO. AT +1!!! Jirachi then threatens Mence with T-Wave, which completely shuts it down. Garchomp does OHKO it at +2 with EQ or with a Choice Band, however Scarf also fails to OHKO it with a STAB Earthquake coming off of 359 Attack, which just shows how bulky Rachi is. Just like Mence, and the Lati twins, Hydreigon also has a hard time handling Rachi successfully, however compared to the Lati twins, Hydreigon can get around Jirachi more successfully. Similar to Ferrothorn, Jirachi takes a decent chunk from Draco Meteor about 31.93% - 37.38%. Since 99% of the time Jirachi will stay in after the Draco, Hydreigon will get a free turn to hit it with Earthquake, which does 44.55% - 52.48%, just around half. With the combination of Draco Meteor and Earthquake, Jirachi is sitting at a dangerously low 20%. Since this is way too low for Jirachi to stall it out with Wish, Hydreigon has a big chance of actually KOing it by itself.

Since these are the two main counters Terrakion will be seeing, I feel like this is enough to suffice for an explanation as to how Hydreigon can even handle Rain teams. Like mentioned earlier, Celebi and Jellicent can counter Hydreigon pretty well, however both are screwed if he's carrying Dark Pulse. This just shows that whatever Hydreigon is running, nothing likes to go up against it. It has immense coverage and nothing can truly counter it due to his power and massive move pool. Yes his typing is quite a bother since he's weak to Mach Punch and U-Turn, however with the proper team support Hydreigon can be one of the hardest Pokemon to face in the meta game. Also, I feel like if Kyurem-B is in A, then Hydreigon should sure as hell be in A. Okay we all know that Kyurem-B has dat 170 BP Attack and has some good bulk, but his physical move pool is absolutely terrible and doesn't really do too much specially that regular Kyurem doesn't. On top of that, he has the worst defensive typing in the game, he's weak to Stealth Rocks and is hindered by Spikes, AND weak to both Mach Punch and Bullet Punch, both which are used by the top ten most used Pokes in OU. Hydreigon is indeed weak to Mach Punch and U-turn which is often seen on every other Pokemon, but unlike Kyurem he has an amazing ability which keeps him immune to Spikes, he's almost impossible to switch into effectively, his move pool is massive, he can beat out his counters, and he's unpredictable. This alone should give him A-Rank. Hopefully this is enough of an explanation for PK to put him A-Rank.

I think I would disagree with Ojama about Keldeo. I think it's a very good pokemon, but it's not really S-Rank. Destroys 95% of the metagame with Hydro Pump and Secret Sword? Uh.. not really. That combination gets resisted by a lot, such as Dragon/Flying, Grass/Psychic, Dragon/Psychic, Grass/Poison, Water/Psychic, Water/Ghost, Water/Flying, etc. Looking at those types, you can see quite a few of those all over the place, so it's not too hard to carry something that resists both of Keldeo's STABs without trying. Also, you seem to be doing the "it can do all of this" thing that Lavos Spawn hates. Sure, some of it's counters are removed by Specs HP Ghost, but locking yourself into that has some drawbacks, and using HP Ghost means you lose out on the ability to hurt Dragons. Also, a good few pokemon are capable of tanking it's attacks, especially without Rain, which needs to be considered since Keldeo's best partner, Tyranitar, prevents Rain. And again, it suffers from bad coverage, so it's easily walled by a good few threats, and I think that's probably the biggest reason why I think it should remain A-Rank.

I personally think that Garchomp, aka Chomper, should be S Rank because it's one of the most threatening Pokemons of the game. We shouldn't forget that it was Uber before getting unbanned recently. Garchomp has now access to Aqua Tail which allows it to be very effective in Rain and to hit Lando-T / Gliscor without using Outrage and getting locked on it then (and so being RKable).

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No doubt Chomp is strong, but the reason it was uber before was because of Sand Veil, which is banned now and doesn't exist in the metagame.

While not outclassed, it does face very stiff competition from other Dragons. -- Latios and Latias have a fantastic 110 speed which Garchomp has to deal with both in terms of being outsped by them as opponents and as competition for a teamslot as they can outspeed things in the very present 108 speed tier including terrakion and keldeo.
- Latias additionally can perform defensive roles.
- Without Sand Veil, Dragonite and Salamence arguably sport better abilities than Garchomp which can give them an edge. Salamence despite speed tieing with scarf 100s and not outspeeding scarf thunderus-T/landorus-I arguably makes a better scarfer thanks to Moxie, while Dragonite's Multiscale, when applicable, can make it very tough to take down.
- Hydreigon offers unparalleled coverage and mixed capabilities that Garchomp could only dream of.

In Garchomps favor his most defining attribute is his Ground typing, giving him an SR resistance, Electric/thunderwave immunity, and STAB on Earthquake.

SubSD is still very strong indeed, but what made it so strong before was Sand Veil in conjunction with Substitute, because a Garchomp with both Sub and SD up was pretty much gg. Now it is much harder to get up both Sub and SD.

Yache chomp is also very good, but that means sacrificing something else to hold the berry. And it could also be viewed somewhat as a pseudo multiscale, which Dragonite already has and can therefore use another useful item.

I'm really not trying to say Chomp is bad, I just think it is a very solid A-tier pokemon without sand veil. Every other dragon has something Chomp wishes it could do, and pretty much the only time I see chomp now a days is on Dragmag and Dragon Spam teams, where those other dragons are already being used in addition to him.

I'm a little confused about the recent movements. Golurk was put into D-tier, despite his good arguments for C-tier. I think his inclusion to D-tier is kind of misleading, because based on the evidence provided, he is actually very good at what he was supposed to do. I was just wondering why he was added to D-tier? Not trying to criticize, but rather just out of curiosity.

I think what PK is trying to say is that Drizzle makes Fire Blast and Flamethrower unviable, so if permanent rain weren't a thing then Hydreigon's place in A-tier wouldn't be a question. SpDef Jirachi and SpDef Celebi are both quickly ended by Flamethrower/Fire Blast outside of rain, and Jellicent simply can't stand up to repeated Draco Meteors (I'm still a firm opponent of running Dark STAB when you've got Dragon STAB, Hydreigon's coverage, and Justified Pokémon running around). Fun fact: Modest Expert Belt Fire Blast in the rain deals a minimum of 73% to standard Ferrothorn. The threat of Superpower and Focus Blast are also huge deterrents for Ferrothorn to even switch in.

Again, unfortunately, he's so goddamn easy to check that I'm undecided on his place in A.

I think what PK is trying to say is that Drizzle makes Fire Blast and Flamethrower unviable, so if permanent rain weren't a thing then Hydreigon's place in A-tier wouldn't be a question. SpDef Jirachi and SpDef Celebi are both quickly ended by Flamethrower/Fire Blast outside of rain, and Jellicent simply can't stand up to repeated Draco Meteors (I'm still a firm opponent of running Dark STAB when you've got Dragon STAB, Hydreigon's coverage, and Justified Pokémon running around). Fun fact: Modest Expert Belt Fire Blast in the rain deals a minimum of 73% to standard Ferrothorn. The threat of Superpower and Focus Blast are also huge deterrents for Ferrothorn to even switch in.

Again, unfortunately, he's so goddamn easy to check that I'm undecided on his place in A.

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Did you read my last post? I pretty much completely explained how Hydreigon can beat out his counters even with the nerf to Fire Blast, which he doesn't need to rely on since he also carries EQ for Rachi and Dark Pulse for Celebi (Justified isn't a good argument seeing as T-Tar uses Dark moves all the time against teams with Terrakion and Keldeo on them). It all depends on the set, and or what your team needs for him to handle. By the way, I feel that Hydreigon is indeed easy to check, but what about Kyurem-B and Salamence? Mence is incredibly frail and is 4x weak to Ice moves, which are commonly used on Rain teams. Kyurem-B is weak to SR, Mach Punch, Bullet Punch, Close Combat, Outrage, and Stone Edge, all very common moves in OU. I still feel that him being easy to check shouldn't keep him from being A-Rank, since other A Pokemon also can be easily checked. Some of them however, can be countered AND checked, but Hydreigon can really only be checked.

I'm a little confused about the recent movements. Golurk was put into D-tier, despite his good arguments for C-tier. I think his inclusion to D-tier is kind of misleading, because based on the evidence provided, he is actually very good at what he was supposed to do. I was just wondering why he was added to D-tier? Not trying to criticize, but rather just out of curiosity.

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I really agree, and I must add that nobody mentioned the fact that Golurk can use the nasty No Guard + Dynamic Punch combination (and a 100% accurate Stone Edge, many poke would dream of that). Giving him a little speed to outspeed and OHKO Tyranitar is quite fun.

I've used him in a few team, where I just threw it at the beginning because I just had one slot for SR and spinblocking. And I really wonder why it's not used more. His defensive set is good, but I also love the adamant + max attack one. His attack base stat is 124, which is definitely cool for a supporting pokemon. He forces many switches, and depending on the coverage move, very few things are sure they won't be 2HKO, or OHKO if you predicted well.

And really, resisting just every move used by standard Terrakion (besides the really rare Earthquake or Zen Headbutt, who are neutral) is a nice gift.

I'd like to nominate another underrated monster, for C-rank (maybe a bit optimistic, but I will try to prove he deserves it).

Sigilyph can run two really threatening sets, and as it's not often used, few teams are prepared to face him.
Obviously, the main reason to use it is the combination of Magic Guard + Cosmic Power + Stored Power (and obviously roost to stall longer).

The most efficient set in current offensive metagame is using Psycho Shift and Flame Orb, to spread burn (90% accuracy, far better than WOW), which is helpful to use Cosmic Power against an unharmed burnt physical attacker.
An interesting calc : Max attack (non banded) burnt Tyranitar's Stone Edge VS Max Def Sigilyph : 43% - 52% (152 - 182 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 7% chance to 2HKO. And at +1 : 29% - 35% (102 - 122 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
So unless you receive a crit, Tyranitar is not a counter (calcs for banded burnt Tyranitar VS +1 Sigilyph show again 43-52% damage), you can just outstall and wait for him to die burning.

The other set is the Stall breaker one, not the best in BW2 metagame, but still deadly with a bit of support. He uses leftovers and Charge Beam instead of Psycho Shift. And now, a funny offensive calc : If Blissey is sent to sponge hits to pp stall roost, he will face a surprise : +6 def/spe def/spe Att (easy to reach against a wall) att Stored power VS Max spedef Blissey : 91% - 107% (651 - 766 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 45% chance to OHKO. And of course, you sweep the rest of the team if he doesn't crit somewhere.

Of course, Sigilyph has many flaws, he hates crits, and have a hard time against effective attack before reaching +2. And he obviously can't do anything against common phazers. Five weaknesses are actually annoying, but they're paired with good resistances, such as *4 fighting or immunity to ground.. The immunity to hazard is nice for a wall.
Just notice that its speed is also pretty cool, even uninvested, allowing to outspeed common bulky sweppers.

To put it in a nutshell, I know Sigilyph will have a hard time to set up, but he can find a surprising amount of occasion to force switches. He is also a good partner for hail teams, despite the annoying rock weakness.
And really, if he's given good partners to help him (Volt-turn to let him come safely, Magnezone to remove Skarmory, and even screens to unsure an easy set up), he can destroy entire teams. And he's really frustrating to face, which is a nice perk.
So I think he deserves C-rank (some people will argue that he should barely be D-rank, but really, try it and you'll see that it can be a serious threat, and an anti-metagame pokemon).

With Specs it didn't hit hard enough. With Specs things like Celebi/Jellicent all get 2hko'd by draco even with max spd. And tons of things get OHKO'd. The only basically safe switch in is Rain Jirachi. If they don't have jirachi in rain you can usually mix up Draco and one coverage move and give them no switch ins. If their steel is weakened you just spam Draco.

The biggest problem with this set is using Focus Miss. Also though it has advantages I am not sure the set is really overall better then Latios. But its the best Hydreigon set I have tried. Probably Hydreigon should stay in B-rank.

I used a Sigilyph for a while, and honestly the biggest threat to it is critical hits simply because it is subject to so many hits while it sets up. This is also the reason why you only want to gather as many cosmic power boosts as you need, rather than just going for +6/+6 which really wouldn't be hard if not for crits. Any phazing whatsoever also makes sigilyph complete deadweight on a team. And while he has a great 4x resistance to fighting moves, he is also weak to many of the many common coverage moves that go along side fighting such as rock, dark, and ice. He'd be a monster if he had better typing.

With Specs it didn't hit hard enough. With Specs things like Celebi/Jellicent all get 2hko'd by draco even with max spd. And tons of things get OHKO'd. The only basically safe switch in is Rain Jirachi. If they don't have jirachi in rain you can usually mix up Draco and one coverage move and give them no switch ins. If their steel is weakened you just spam Draco.

The biggest problem with this set is using Focus Miss. Also though it has advantages I am not sure the set is really overall better then Latios. But its the best Hydreigon set I have tried. Probably Hydreigon should stay in B-rank.

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I think the Specs set is indeed out classed by Latios, however we were discussing his mixed set, which is what really separates him from the other special dragons in the tier, thus making him A Rank. All in all, I don't really like his Specs set either. He's better off with a Mixed LO or E Belt. His mixed set beats out his counters, while Latios and Latias can't touch Heatran, Jirachi, and Ferrothorn all in one move set like Hydreigon can. That's what makes him so threatening. It has no safe switch ins.

So no I wouldn't say it could switch in to any set, especially if it has any prior damage on it, it risks being 2hko'd by scizor's choice band bullet punch. Meaning all Scizor really has to do to beat a switching in chandelure is BP it once, switch out to something that will force Chandelure out, then Chandelure won't be able to take another BP because of the SR damage that is chandelure's biggest flaw (even moreso than it's subpar speed).

With that said though, I wouldn't be risking my scizor to flame body, and if I was going to attempt to do anything to chandelure with a scizor I'd wait til it locked itself into shadow ball or something then pursuit it. Most Chandelure in OU are choiced.

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Oh well when I wrote that I was thinking, but obviously not expressing (my apologies), that it's a good switch-in exactly that: once or twice. It takes very minimal damage from U-turn, and when U-turn is obvious, it makes an excellent switch-in with its 4x resist and 30% chance to burn. Obviously, switching into Bullet Punch repeatedly isn't going to happen, but it can survive 2 with Rapid Spin support. It's really nice on HO teams to spinblock and regain momentum against Scizors, which usually threatens quite a lot of offensive 'mons after previous damage. But yeah, Chandelure does require a bit of team support (Rapid Spin, counter to rain spam, etc.), but it seems to fit the C tier description pretty well.

tbh, I think Cloyster should be put in C tier. After getting my CRE into the 1600s I found the thing to be damn near useless. No good team is getting swept by Cloyster. Period. It's too hard to set up and most teams worth fighting have something that can take hit from it and KO back. It's good for sweeping teams full of frail Pokemon and breaking subs. That's about it.

How about no.
Cloyster is essentially the physical version of Volcarona.
You get that Shell Smash off, you kill something with Cloyster and even sweep in not-so-rare circumstances, regardless of how "good" the opposing player is.

Sand teams in particular are horribly weak to it.
Just look at the usage of Landorus-T, Gliscor and Garchomp - all things that Cloyster easily takes advantage of. As long as they're common, Cloyster will always have an easy time setting up.

I'm not sure why you think most Fighting types easily KO back, because they don't.
Terrakion and Breloom are easily KO'd with the appropriate move before they can even move and Keldeo's Secret Sword targets its high defense stat.
That, and the fact that fighting types aren't nearly as common in OU as they were in early BW (in fact, most of them fell to UU).

If you're really scared about Fighting types then just use Chople Berry instead of White Herb (you'll take +33% damage from a SE fighting type attack, factoring the denese drop from SS, a -66% damage reduction compared to White Herb).

The problem with Cloyster is that most people run the standard cookie-cutter Shell Smash set without making changes in order to tailor it to what their team needs.
Heck, Cloyster can easily get past Keldeo, Rotom-W, Starmie and Jellicent with HP Grass if it wants to.

Having Cloyster in your team will force the opponent in keeping their Cloyster "check" alive for most of the battle, something you should take advantage of.
Notice how most of them are fighting and water types? Pair Cloyster with something like Latios or Celebi and take advantage of that.

In short, it's an effective pokemon that can easily pressure the opponent just for the threat of Shell Smash alone.
Therefore it should be, at worst, B-rank.

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I have a sand team, and I must say, Cloyster has never been a problem for me. Although Cloyster has a high Defense stat, this does not mean nothing when it has a HORRIBLE HP stat. Why you are going to use Hidden Power Grass? Does you want to be walled by Heatran or Skarmory? You absolutely need Hydro Pump to deal with them unless you have support like Dugtrio or Magnezone to remove both threats, respectively.

It is easy to stop Cloyster with a Water-type. I has been using Keldeo; it resists every move Cloyster can use and although Cloyster has a high Defense stat, it has a horrible Special Defense stat. Thus, either Secret Sword or Hydro Pump (or HP Electric if you have that) will be sufficient to deal with Cloyster.

Cloyster in no way should be understimated, as it can sweep entire teams after X threat was removed. I myself has been swept. However, lets face it, the things that stop Cloyster, stop it so cold and leave it hopeless that leaves him on a situation where either you sweep, or you will be swept.

How about no.
Cloyster is essentially the physical version of Volcarona.
You get that Shell Smash off, you kill something with Cloyster and even sweep in not-so-rare circumstances, regardless of how "good" the opposing player is.

Sand teams in particular are horribly weak to it.
Just look at the usage of Landorus-T, Gliscor and Garchomp - all things that Cloyster easily takes advantage of. As long as they're common, Cloyster will always have an easy time setting up.

I'm not sure why you think most Fighting types easily KO back, because they don't.
Terrakion and Breloom are easily KO'd with the appropriate move before they can even move and Keldeo's Secret Sword targets its high defense stat.
That, and the fact that fighting types aren't nearly as common in OU as they were in early BW (in fact, most of them fell to UU).

If you're really scared about Fighting types then just use Chople Berry instead of White Herb (you'll take +33% damage from a SE fighting type attack, factoring the denese drop from SS, a -66% damage reduction compared to White Herb).

The problem with Cloyster is that most people run the standard cookie-cutter Shell Smash set without making changes in order to tailor it to what their team needs.
Heck, Cloyster can easily get past Keldeo, Rotom-W, Starmie and Jellicent with HP Grass if it wants to.

Having Cloyster in your team will force the opponent in keeping their Cloyster "check" alive for most of the battle, something you should take advantage of.
Notice how most of them are fighting and water types? Pair Cloyster with something like Latios or Celebi and take advantage of that.

In short, it's an effective pokemon that can easily pressure the opponent just for the threat of Shell Smash alone.
Therefore it should be, at worst, B-rank.

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I had a huge post about how wrong you were and I lost it. So I'm going to sum it up quickly:

1) Cloyster is not a physical Volcarona.
a) Volcarona is not as mortally terrified of any physical attack as Cloyster is of special attacks.
b) Volcarona has usuable physical defense and it has room to invest in it via evs or nature, cloyster is shoe-horned into running speed and attack or spa to get the ohkos and speed tier it needs.
c) Volcarona can cripple a physical attacker via flame body making physical attackers even less of a threat.
d) Volcarona can actually do something without a boost. Cloyster has awful offenses without it's boost, volcarona's are actually quite nice with 135 spa and 100 spe. And cloyster's utility set isnt comparable to volcarona.

2) HP Grass isn't viable.
a) Rotom-W, Jellicent, and Starmie all take more (or equal in starmies case) damage from Rock Blast than HP Grass even if you somehow were magically running 252 SpA and 252 Atk (which is also not viable)
b) Life orb is necessary to have a chance at ohko'ing the above at +2 with rock blast, and if you are running life orb you will be at -1 def and damaged and highly susceptible to priority.
c) in Keldeo's case HP Grass can only ohko if you were running life orb and 252 SpA, which isn't viable.
d) actually run damage calcs first before spewing bs.

3) "Having Cloyster in your team will force the opponent in keeping their Cloyster "check" alive for most of the battle, something you should take advantage of.
Notice how most of them are fighting and water types? Pair Cloyster with something like Latios or Celebi and take advantage of that. "
a) Notice how most of any dragon's checks are steel types? pair them with a magnezone or gothitelle and see what happens. Your statement is true for any pokemon. If you let your check for anything die before it's served it's purpose, you're going to be in for a hard time
b) Cloyster often has multiple checks to worry about that are often included in teams naturally.

4) Breloom does minimum 95% to -1 Def cloyster with mach punch. If it is running white herb, it loses alot of damage output it needs to get past bulky waters which can at the very least put cloyster into ohko range of breloom's mach punch without the defense drop.

5) Sand teams often carry Rotom-W or Keldeo. Also is potentially checking Sand teams worth having such a hard time with sun and rain?

Yeah agreeing with most people here, Cloyster for C rank, the meta is far too unkind to it. It wants huge team support to be able to sweep anytime soon, which is the case with many Pokemon in Rank C such as Conkeldurr, NP Infernape, and Growth Victreebel.

Not sure about Cloyster. Although C-Rank is pretty decent justice for Cloyster; it needs a shit ton of support to work, especially with that horrid SpD, awful defensive typing, and shitty HP. Ughhh.

Anyways, prepare for a tl:dr post; I'm up for a whole lot of nominations.

Firstly, I'd like to nominate Abomasnow for B-Rank, if not A-Rank (though the latter unlikely). It is the summoner of its own weather; hail. Abomasnow is the crux of any hail team, to spam Blizzards, etc. The fact that it is a summoner of weather itself also makes it a great check to Tyranitar and Politoed alike, neutering their weather and just smashing them. Of course, his shit typing makes that rather hard, which is why I say "check". Same with the mighty Hippo, who gets chills from Blizzard. Also, CB Aboma can smash Ninetales with EQ or Focus Punch. Abomasnow has great STAB's too, and they provide great coverage. His mixed attacking stats are nice to do some real good, and his stats overall allow him to fulfill the role of a weather killer with CB, or a Mixed Attacker, or even a SubSeeder. While he's not the best Pokemon ever, and is slow, yes. But his hail summoning shit and being a good weather killer and mixed attacker should get him up some. But that's just what I think.

It's a disgrace that a pathetic nine tailed fox sits in the A-Rank while a mighty abominable snowman gets the C-Rank.

Also gonna nominate Darmanitan for C-Rank. Darma is strongth. Like, damn powerful that in the sun, it is nigh impossible to take a Flare Blitz from this nigga. He can hit pretty damn hard, has an alright speed tier, although still outsped by a number of things. With a Scarf or LO, he can do a solid job as a powerhouse in the sun, and can take down a lot of shit. Of course, though, in this weather centered meta, he gets nerfed hard by rain, and so he absolutely needs the sun to be consistent. Also, Sand makes life hard to some degree for Darma, so yeah. Also, he's SR weak, and combined with the liability of pathetic Ninetales, that's no good. You need a spinner like Donphan or Starmie to be successful. But his effectiveness provided the right support can place him in the C-Rank.

I'm also gonna bring back up Takion's nomination of Bisharp in D-Rank. Bisharp is usable in OU. With 125 Attack, a great boosting move in Swords Dance, a myriad of resistances, and strong priority in Sucker Punch, Bisharp has just enough to be modestly viable in OU. He can switch in on a Pokemon after they clicked DM or Outrage, so he can set up, and be a vicious sweeper outright. His power is pretty damn strong and can hit a lot for serious damage after a boost, like Alakazam, non sub Gengar, Starmie, Celebi, etc. Defiant also discourages Landorus-T, so he's an alright check to that. But however, he has noticable flaws that make him go no higher than D-Rank, like a massive Fighting weakness, which makes him vulnerable to Lucario and Terrakion unless he is behind a Sub, in which case he can just hit 'em with Low Kick or Brick Break (or even Iron Head in the latter's case). He also has a low Speed tier, which makes him ridiculously reliant on Sucker Punch. He's also a pretty frail Pokemon on the special side, so beware. Also, faces very stiff competition from Scizor as a "Steel-type spam priority user" But still Bisharp has a small amount of viability in OU, and that alone should put him in the D-Rank.

Also nominating Ninjask for D-Rank. Ninjask has a small niche in OU with Speed Boost+Baton Pass. This famous niche can make or break a game. He does, however, have a SR weakness and is predictable, etc. So he should be D-Rank.

Finally, nominating Quagsire for D-Rank. Small niche, too tired to explain. Original Post

I agree with Darmanitan for C-Rank. After that mofo OHKO'd my Infernape at full health (Darmanitan had scarf) and proceeded to destroy the rest of my team, I knew that thing was trouble. Very underrated Pokemon.

I agree with Darmanitan for C-Rank. After that mofo OHKO'd my Infernape at full health (Darmanitan had scarf) and proceeded to destroy the rest of my team, I knew that thing was trouble. Very underrated Pokemon.

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Not to undermine what you guys are saying (I know how scary Scarfmanitan in the sun is), but Infernape is not a very good Pokémon so he's not really a meter for "Oh man this Pokémon is trouble, he just OHKOd Infernape."

Darmanitan for C, maybe D. His Flare Blitz IS the single-most powerful attack in the game outside of Ubers (and accounting for weather-neutrality).

Not to undermine what you guys are saying (I know how scary Scarfmanitan in the sun is), but Infernape is not a very good Pokémon so he's not really a meter for "Oh man this Pokémon is trouble, he just OHKOd Infernape."

Darmanitan for C, maybe D. His Flare Blitz IS the single-most powerful attack in the game outside of Ubers (and accounting for weather-neutrality).

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It's not a matter of being the best for ou. It's a matter of "a scarf pokemon just 1hkoed my resist."

Who gives a shit what pokemon it was? Damage is calculated the same whether they are nu or uber