Qt3 Games Podcast: the designer of Navajo Wars

Joel Toppen is the guest this week for a conversation about his fascinating solitaire boardgame, Navajo Wars. He reveals that it almost didn’t get made, he justifies its only supernatural element, and he talks a bit about his next game.

Great Episode. As much as I love the standard “Lets BS about games we’re playing” format, these occasional deep dives into something unusual are always interesting, and usually pretty enlightening.

http://xca2.com/ Brian Kerr

Tom, you didn’t have anything to apologize for. I thought the way you handled “that” topic/question was very thoughtful and totally on point — I think you cut right to a huge and interesting contradiction in Joel’s work.

On the other hand, Joel’s glib response was pretty disappointing. While he came across as a thoughtless jerk, it was probably just a poorly handled dodge away from a topic he couldn’t address (at least, not in a way that wouldn’t be toxic to his day job).

Dave Perkins

I agree with Brian that your question was fine, but I don’t think Joel’s response was glib, unless you take as a given that pastors to the Navajo have by definition got to be insensitive to Navajo folks’ relationship to their culture. Pastors have generally sucked at being thus sensitive, it seems, but maybe Joel does not.

tomchick

Thanks, Brian, although I disagree about Joel’s response. For starters, I doubt anyone in Joel’s congregation was pressured into being there. On the broader scale of whether a Christian Navajo is subverting his own culture, I think Joel explained nicely that doesn’t have to be the case. Which is, to my mind, an important part of reconciling the idea of a man who made a game about the subversion of Navajo culture who is ministering to the Navajo an outside tradition. That Joel believes the two can co-exist is what sets him apart from the religious traditions that helped destroy Navajo culture.

Given Tom’s introductory disclaimer, I was expecting either the question or the answer to be uncomfortable. I was pleased that both were quite thoughtful.

Kelly Kintner

I found the conversation interesting and sincere. Listening to the two of you talk made me buy the game.

PatientPylon

Seconding the “Great Episode” comment. I love these sorts of in-depth interviews with the actual game creators, whether they are working with video games or board games. I’m also a fan of a Few Acres of Snow and the Cthulhu Mythos, so the upcoming interview this week should be the absolute perfect podcast for me. Looking forward to it!

Dre2Dee2

Awesome! I really want to grab a copy of this game, and the news of a Comanche game is really exciting too! WOOT :D

Charles Wheeler

Strictly speaking, your statements about Custer’s Revenge aren’t quite right. It did exist as an Atari cartridge, one of a number of unlicensed pornographic games by a company called Mystique. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystique_(company)). As I suspected, I’m apparently the only person with the requisite combination of interest in obscure board games and Atari trivia to listen to the end of the ‘cast.

I do wish there had been an opportunity to cover the portrayals of Native Americans in video gaming in a bit more depth. The pitfalls of portrayal in the stereotypical manner of either earth-mothers or savages are myriad and obvious. While something like the “war-dance” you mentioned at the end may be mechanically sound, doesn’t it fall into the same pattern of stereotypical portrayals?

tomchick

Hmm, your Wikipedia link goes to something that doesn’t have a page, which just reinforces my suspicion that Custer’s Revenge was never a viable retail product. :) Where would someone have bought such a thing back in the day? Surely it wasn’t at, say, Target or Wal-Mart?

I’d love to talk more about Native Americans in videogames! The war dance might be a stereotypical representation of Native Americans, but I don’t really fault Ensemble for it. The idea behind it is that Native American worker units can support that faction in a variety of unique and flexible ways that aren’t available to European powers. As you say, mechanically sound. But do you feel there’s a negative connotation by having them represent that with the units dancing around a fire? Is it stereotypical in any way different from, say, the Russians having cheap and numerous strelets?