Chunterer, yes what you have listed there very close from what I know. First car must have been a LHD car, as that is what is photographed in the original homologation papers, would have been built early 1983. What then happened to this car I don't know, as my car is the first circuit car, built early/mid 1983 and it is RHD. Perhaps this first LHD car ended up as the 1985 rally car? It has some things on it that were quite different to my car, such as an aluminium drop tank. Either that or it was a mockup to just get the papers done and was disassembled later, have seen that done in Group A.

I believe my car was supposed to be Win's car for the entire 1983 season, however Toyota didn't get the car homologated until 1 Aug 1983; so you see my car entered in races before that but I don't believe it raced until the GP weekend. As you say, my car was used until about May/June 1984 (don't know the exact date), and was replaced with the second car. This started out with a 'P' type bodyshell with flares, however this body was not homologated until Aug 1985 so I believe they must have been told to take the flared arches and quarters off: you later see the car with 'L' type panels without arches, both in England and at Spa 1985, then the second Sheene car finally gets flares after Aug 85. Interestingly, in Australia, Peter was told that you were not allowed to have the flares without the American style rear spoiler so my car got both even though it made refuelling a real bugger: the other 2 circuit cars never ran the rear spoiler, so different interpretations of the same rule.

My car was taken to Spa 84 by Gordon Spice (5th outright) then came to Australia, won the first ever Group A class here (Sandown 1984) then had the first of many bad prangs at Bathurst 1984. Peter used it until Bathurst 1987 where it failed to qualify, then it went to NZ for 2 years to do occasional races in the Nissan/Mobil series, before coming back to Australia.

Barry takes over from Win after 1984, and as you say destroys the 2nd circuit car at Thruxton, and the third car is never as good as the previous ones so they give it away at the end of 85.

Meanwhile, the LHD Rally car wins in 1985, as has already been documented, then they give rallying with Supras away as well.

So at least 4 cars built for Hughes, but have never been able to get many leads to verify the exact count. I have had a look at the Group N Belga team cars, but they have different roll cages so I am pretty sure none of them are ex Hughes LHD cars.

Would love to know if anyone else has anything more concrete on this history, bit hard to compile form the other side of the world.

"i had been told that win percy used to drive my car before barry did.

have you restored your car in to its former works colours ???"

Adam, I believe the second car was scrapped and (assuming your car is RHD) I believe your car is therefore the third circuit car. Mind you, all I have to make me think that is an interview I saw with Barry later, he made it sound like the third car was a new one.

No, my car is not in the works colours. Group A is an historic category here, and we have to have the cars in the exact mechanical spec and livery for a particular race meeting. My car has been rebuilt in its 1987 Australian colour scheme, to take advantage of the later homologations which continued until Aug 1986. It received lightweight suspension and bigger front brakes in that homologation, which are on my car. It also received a different fuel injection system in 1985 and other goodies. I could take it back to 1983 spec as I have the parts still, but it would lose 50hp and gain heavier suspension etc, and I would have to take the flares off it which means new front guards and quarters, and none of the L type panels are available here (all Supras sold here were P types). Given that it never raced here in those works colours, I am better off keeping it in its 1986 or 87 colour schemes.

well look at all this info
its all much apprieciated, i have now confirmed that my car is the number 3 car. i cant wait to get the thing back up and running again
All im missing now are some pictures of the circuit car. the car said "hughes of Beaconsfield" on the bonnet

"i had been told that win percy used to drive my car before barry did.

have you restored your car in to its former works colours ???"

Adam, I believe the second car was scrapped and (assuming your car is RHD) I believe your car is therefore the third circuit car. Mind you, all I have to make me think that is an interview I saw with Barry later, he made it sound like the third car was a new one.

No, my car is not in the works colours. Group A is an historic category here, and we have to have the cars in the exact mechanical spec and livery for a particular race meeting. My car has been rebuilt in its 1987 Australian colour scheme, to take advantage of the later homologations which continued until Aug 1986..... Given that it never raced here in those works colours, I am better off keeping it in its 1986 or 87 colour schemes.

John

So it's in the white colour scheme, as seen when Williamson DNQ'd at Bathurst 87?

slightly off-topic, but I hadn't realised that historic racing in Australia was so strict on original liveries and specs- it would be interesting to see the effect of applying the same approach over here in Europe....

No, it is actually going back to its Oran Park or Adelaide 1987 colour scheme at the moment - Car looked pretty ordinary at Bathurst, had lost most of its sponsorship by then and Peter had sold the car yard. It looks best at Adelaide but I can not find the photos to substantiate it, just have some far off ones that don't show the detail. Oran Park is the same sans a couple of sponsor stickers on the front wings. There are a couple of photos on www.autopics.com.au that show what the Oran Park scheme looks like.

I am pretty happy with the strictness of the rules, otherwise you may as well allow replicas to race, that is all the cars end up being once you stray too far from their original spec. They aren't concerned so much about whether the spec matches the race, as long as it matches the same year, race to race would be a bit hard. I have about 8 photos of the engine bay of the Supra over the 1984-87 period, and every one is slightly different as various mods were trialed, or for different length races.

No, it is actually going back to its Oran Park or Adelaide 1987 colour scheme at the moment - Car looked pretty ordinary at Bathurst, had lost most of its sponsorship by then and Peter had sold the car yard. It looks best at Adelaide but I can not find the photos to substantiate it, just have some far off ones that don't show the detail. Oran Park is the same sans a couple of sponsor stickers on the front wings. There are a couple of photos on www.autopics.com.au that show what the Oran Park scheme looks like.

I am pretty happy with the strictness of the rules, otherwise you may as well allow replicas to race, that is all the cars end up being once you stray too far from their original spec. They aren't concerned so much about whether the spec matches the race, as long as it matches the same year, race to race would be a bit hard. I have about 8 photos of the engine bay of the Supra over the 1984-87 period, and every one is slightly different as various mods were trialed, or for different length races.

John

I also didnt mind that car in the colours of National/Technics when it arrived at Bathurst in 1984.... black nose.. black tail... the rest in white... there are a couple of pics of it in the Great Race book of 1984

__________________
“Sharks are born swimming sir” - Miss Lovenko, Tower Heist the movie
Jules: If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions.

"Hey bring it on this liveries as raced as I will reproduce them, sounds like a nice little earner."

Al, perhaps you should encourage it - what better way to ensure you maintain your tin top history than by giving them their own historic series and making them run in their original colours? Otherwise they just get heavily modified, or sold for their parts, and all that history is gone. I am glad the Association and CAMS in Australia have gone down this route, you should see the crowd reaction when the old cars get trotted out, still looking exactly as they did in the 70's and 80's.

I agree, I liked the National Panasonic scheme my car used in 84, but that means a change of body panels front and rear, new wheels (smaller arches = narrower wheels and tyres), different injection system (back to the factory one), different suspension, different dash, smaller brakes on the front etc. And the engine internals have to be almost factory stock so minus lots of HP. More interior for more weight. Big list of downside for a nice paint job!

I don't have a choice anyway, partner wants it orange (Toyota Fireball) so orange it will become in a few years, back to 1986. Will get it sorted in its existing scheme first.

Joking aside I am trying to renovate a piece of American race history, one of the original Penske IROC tubular spaceframe Camaros from the 70's and I have unfortunately found it was run in an inciped shade of light beige like a Ford Camel Beige from the 70's. Now much as I would like to paint it black as the one in the Talladaga Museum or Red/orange as the one renovated by the IROC people and the same colour as raced by Dale Earhardt I am going to have to restore it to its original shade of light beige as each of the 15 cars were a specific colour for identification purposes and I'd have a Havoc Video with my car being driven by Al Unser including in car shots so thats the way it will have to be. Plus all the Z/28 decals, the Firestone stickers, Sunoco 66 stickers, drivers name (who ever I decide as it has been driven by many, Al Unser sounds good though or Buddy Baker as he was the last to drive it in an IROC race) as above all it must be authentic.

I sprayed my early 70's Camaro yellow but was contemplating doing in the Castrol colours as raced by Frank Gardiner but as it only has an iron small block not an Alloy Big block I thought it would not live up to the livery and am probably right! :-)

__________________
You can't polish a turd but you sure can sprinkle it with glitter!