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Originally posted by PrhymeThanks OP. I'm a bit surprised they aren't doing what they did with RIFT. Even a sub-game WildStar allows you to use in-game currency to pay for sub.

He's not talking about in game currency, he's talking about the cash shop currency. Specifically what you get in the founders packs, he wants to use to purchase addition patron status on top of what the founders packs already give.

If he was complaining about not being able to buy game time with in game currency, as rift does, I'd agree with him.

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Sigh..... Over reaction it's not. This whole mess starting with the alpha access is a money grab and when that ball starts rolling who know where it stops. You feel it's ok, then by all means, open your wallet and start paying, I just have no intention to. I have been following this game for years and I am sad that Trion has chosen this route and just expressing my feeling that this is only going to get worse.

Its a free to play game (maybe buy to play) they have to make money somehow. Isnt that the excuses all the ESO fanboys sed when Zenimax did the same thing with a game you MUST pay a sub IN REAL LIFE CASH to access the servers? Arhcheage is a better game on all fronts than ESO, so since people love to make comparisons that is one of them.

They are going to sell credits as well as sub time. Just because you cannot buy sub time with credits isnt a crime.

For one if they dont sell game time (at first) for in game gold then that will severely diminish the demand for gold sellers with there dozens of alts farming the highest vendored items in the game and gushing cash into the system to turn around and sell to people who dont understand the game or are too lazy to make money themselves.

I paid the 150. I am getting 3 months game time (39.98 if a sub for 90 days is the same here as in RIFT) I also got 11250 credits. If they have a reduced price I cant remember. But that seems pretty accurate. Rift doesnt have that exact break down but if you bought 3 separate packages that added up t0 75 bux it would be 12500 credits. But again we dont know the break down of the 'value' of credits in AA yet. So to compare them in a mirrored vacuum is wrong.

But even with the known reduction i still have 115 bux in cash 'value'. So that leaves me 35 to account for. The stones, the pet juice, and the chests probably take care of all that in real life cash t credit exchange. Then I still get a cloak, a title, a crest, a glider, 4 days head start and some cosmetic gear.

So where exactly is the cash grab? The game is a QUALITY product, not some broken down piece of trash like ESO is filled with bugs and performance issues. Sure its been around awhile but it still has been changed and those changes havent caused any major problems. Cash grabs are reserved for garbage games looking to get as much money to of people they can before said playerbase realizes the game is garbage. There are thousands and thousands of people playing AA right now. I suppose theyre all dumb? I have seen maybe 3 or 4 negative trolls complaining about the game and mostly because theyre probably playing on 5 year old systems or systems that cant handle it and hey have problems.

There certainly arent the posts that ESO or SWOTOR have had about how shit their game is.

Like I said everyone can have an opinion but in this case most people are wrong. You are in fact getting items worth real cash plus all the other stuff. If a person doesnt get it now and waits til release and buys all the stuff offered right, it will definitely add up to more than 150 bucks. Of course some of it is available in game and he might save some money here or there, but if he buys credits and buys a sub he is looking at at least 115 bucks. He will then get 90 days of sub perks, ad who knows how long those credits will last could last for years if he is frugal. But the 90 days of patron status is going to be a huge boost to his in game cash flow as well as his ability to save real life money buying credits at all.

It is most definitely a subscription game, if you want to maximize it. Theyre just giving people an option to play it for free before they spend anything up front. Barring these packages of course, which I have already shown more than pay for themselves.

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It's not like they need testers. They do want your money. Very common tactic to get money from mmo these days is to offer instant access for a price. They count on people not being patient. Why people want to pay so much to play game early and have their accounts wipe and start again I will never know. The fact game is going be f2p in the end seems bit silly too. Whatever, it's their money to use as they wish.

As far as the op topic goes. I'm not that shocked. They might add it if enough people cancel but I doubt it. Thanks for sharing the info. either way, so other people don't assume it also.

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Originally posted by rodarin

Sigh..... Over reaction it's not. This whole mess starting with the alpha access is a money grab and when that ball starts rolling who know where it stops. You feel it's ok, then by all means, open your wallet and start paying, I just have no intention to. I have been following this game for years and I am sad that Trion has chosen this route and just expressing my feeling that this is only going to get worse.

Its a free to play game (maybe buy to play) they have to make money somehow. Isnt that the excuses all the ESO fanboys sed when Zenimax did the same thing with a game you MUST pay a sub IN REAL LIFE CASH to access the servers? Arhcheage is a better game on all fronts than ESO, so since people love to make comparisons that is one of them.

Save the ESO talk for the ESO fourm, I could care less about other games. I understand you want to point out how good the game looks so far, and I agree, i've played it elsewhere, but we all understand how the payment system works in MMO's.

They are going to sell credits as well as sub time. Just because you cannot buy sub time with credits isnt a crime.

It is when a company isn't upfront in how it's selling to you. Why did someone have to ask this question? Why wouldn't Trion spell this out clearly when the packages came out? Do you think maybe some people wouldn't have bought the package if they knew this from the start? So maybe they left this little piece of info out because they wanted to maximize profits? In my small guild, all who have bought them are upset this was not told to them.

For one if they dont sell game time (at first) for in game gold then that will severely diminish the demand for gold sellers with there dozens of alts farming the highest vendored items in the game and gushing cash into the system to turn around and sell to people who dont understand the game or are too lazy to make money themselves.

Their are so many better ways to deal with gold sellers, but company's choose not to use them for various reasons. What Trion's reasons are unknown to me nor do I care, if they are kept to a minimum, then I'd be happy.

I paid the 150. I am getting 3 months game time (39.98 if a sub for 90 days is the same here as in RIFT) I also got 11250 credits. If they have a reduced price I cant remember. But that seems pretty accurate. Rift doesnt have that exact break down but if you bought 3 separate packages that added up t0 75 bux it would be 12500 credits. But again we dont know the break down of the 'value' of credits in AA yet. So to compare them in a mirrored vacuum is wrong.

But even with the known reduction i still have 115 bux in cash 'value'. So that leaves me 35 to account for. The stones, the pet juice, and the chests probably take care of all that in real life cash t credit exchange. Then I still get a cloak, a title, a crest, a glider, 4 days head start and some cosmetic gear.

Game time is the only tangible cash value here. In game items hold no value at all, none. Spending money to pass my time is a real value and not being able to spend this in game currency on game time is lost money, I don't place a value on in game crap, it's worthless.

So where exactly is the cash grab? The game is a QUALITY product, not some broken down piece of trash like ESO is filled with bugs and performance issues. Sure its been around awhile but it still has been changed and those changes havent caused any major problems. Cash grabs are reserved for garbage games looking to get as much money to of people they can before said playerbase realizes the game is garbage. There are thousands and thousands of people playing AA right now. I suppose theyre all dumb? I have seen maybe 3 or 4 negative trolls complaining about the game and mostly because theyre probably playing on 5 year old systems or systems that cant handle it and hey have problems.

The cash grab is collecting a large amount of money for a game thats not released and charging a ridiculous amount to desperate gamers who can't control themselves or their wallets. What happened to company's making money on a product that's ready to use, is that too much to ask? Then on top of that, now that currency can't be used to buy game time, you just got played. I hope one of the in game items you can buy is anul lube, that just might be a value item here.

There certainly arent the posts that ESO or SWOTOR have had about how shit their game is.

Who cares

Like I said everyone can have an opinion but in this case most people are wrong. You are in fact getting items worth real cash plus all the other stuff. If a person doesnt get it now and waits til release and buys all the stuff offered right, it will definitely add up to more than 150 bucks. Of course some of it is available in game and he might save some money here or there, but if he buys credits and buys a sub he is looking at at least 115 bucks. He will then get 90 days of sub perks, ad who knows how long those credits will last could last for years if he is frugal. But the 90 days of patron status is going to be a huge boost to his in game cash flow as well as his ability to save real life money buying credits at all.

What if I bought that $150. package and I wanted to only buy in game time and it wasn't made known to the player base and now i'm stuck with in game currency that does nothing for me? What am I to do now?

It is most definitely a subscription game, if you want to maximize it. Theyre just giving people an option to play it for free before they spend anything up front. Barring these packages of course, which I have already shown more than pay for themselves.

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Originally posted by bound4hades

Originally posted by rodarin

Sigh..... Over reaction it's not. This whole mess starting with the alpha access is a money grab and when that ball starts rolling who know where it stops. You feel it's ok, then by all means, open your wallet and start paying, I just have no intention to. I have been following this game for years and I am sad that Trion has chosen this route and just expressing my feeling that this is only going to get worse.

Its a free to play game (maybe buy to play) they have to make money somehow. Isnt that the excuses all the ESO fanboys sed when Zenimax did the same thing with a game you MUST pay a sub IN REAL LIFE CASH to access the servers? Arhcheage is a better game on all fronts than ESO, so since people love to make comparisons that is one of them.

Save the ESO talk for the ESO fourm, I could care less about other games. I understand you want to point out how good the game looks so far, and I agree, i've played it elsewhere, but we all understand how the payment system works in MMO's.

They are going to sell credits as well as sub time. Just because you cannot buy sub time with credits isnt a crime.

It is when a company isn't upfront in how it's selling to you. Why did someone have to ask this question? Why wouldn't Trion spell this out clearly when the packages came out? Do you think maybe some people wouldn't have bought the package if they knew this from the start? So maybe they left this little piece of info out because they wanted to maximize profits? In my small guild, all who have bought them are upset this was not told to them.

For one if they dont sell game time (at first) for in game gold then that will severely diminish the demand for gold sellers with there dozens of alts farming the highest vendored items in the game and gushing cash into the system to turn around and sell to people who dont understand the game or are too lazy to make money themselves.

Their are so many better ways to deal with gold sellers, but company's choose not to use them for various reasons. What Trion's reasons are unknown to me nor do I care, if they are kept to a minimum, then I'd be happy.

I paid the 150. I am getting 3 months game time (39.98 if a sub for 90 days is the same here as in RIFT) I also got 11250 credits. If they have a reduced price I cant remember. But that seems pretty accurate. Rift doesnt have that exact break down but if you bought 3 separate packages that added up t0 75 bux it would be 12500 credits. But again we dont know the break down of the 'value' of credits in AA yet. So to compare them in a mirrored vacuum is wrong.

But even with the known reduction i still have 115 bux in cash 'value'. So that leaves me 35 to account for. The stones, the pet juice, and the chests probably take care of all that in real life cash t credit exchange. Then I still get a cloak, a title, a crest, a glider, 4 days head start and some cosmetic gear.

Game time is the only tangible cash value here. In game items hold no value at all, none. Spending money to pass my time is a real value and not being able to spend this in game currency on game time is lost money, I don't place a value on in game crap, it's worthless.

So where exactly is the cash grab? The game is a QUALITY product, not some broken down piece of trash like ESO is filled with bugs and performance issues. Sure its been around awhile but it still has been changed and those changes havent caused any major problems. Cash grabs are reserved for garbage games looking to get as much money to of people they can before said playerbase realizes the game is garbage. There are thousands and thousands of people playing AA right now. I suppose theyre all dumb? I have seen maybe 3 or 4 negative trolls complaining about the game and mostly because theyre probably playing on 5 year old systems or systems that cant handle it and hey have problems.

The cash grab is collecting a large amount of money for a game thats not released and charging a ridiculous amount to desperate gamers who can't control themselves or their wallets. What happened to company's making money on a product that's ready to use, is that too much to ask? Then on top of that, now that currency can't be used to buy game time, you just got played. I hope one of the in game items you can buy is anul lube, that just might be a value item here.

There certainly arent the posts that ESO or SWOTOR have had about how shit their game is.

Who cares

Like I said everyone can have an opinion but in this case most people are wrong. You are in fact getting items worth real cash plus all the other stuff. If a person doesnt get it now and waits til release and buys all the stuff offered right, it will definitely add up to more than 150 bucks. Of course some of it is available in game and he might save some money here or there, but if he buys credits and buys a sub he is looking at at least 115 bucks. He will then get 90 days of sub perks, ad who knows how long those credits will last could last for years if he is frugal. But the 90 days of patron status is going to be a huge boost to his in game cash flow as well as his ability to save real life money buying credits at all.

What if I bought that $150. package and I wanted to only buy in game time and it wasn't made known to the player base and now i'm stuck with in game currency that does nothing for me? What am I to do now?

It is most definitely a subscription game, if you want to maximize it. Theyre just giving people an option to play it for free before they spend anything up front. Barring these packages of course, which I have already shown more than pay for themselves.

The game has been available in this version for about two weeks now. This 'information" was made available immediately, youre acting like the game has been open for sale for months and no one ever said anything about it. So being 'upfront' is a misnomer. They game you a clear list of what you were paying for. If people want to assume things that dont exist based on faulty information thats their own fault. I never saw anywhere that said "You get 11,250 credits that you can use to buy additional game time".

As far as 'value' we can debate it all day long. Guys like you want everything for nothing. You want your 90 days AND you want the other credits you got to be able to buy game time. Here is a novel idea. Dont buy early access. Wait for it to release then spend the money on game time then. Alpha is meaningless for most people I guess. So no harm no foul I suppose. But if the game doesnt release until Dec then you have a long wait. "Worth' this 150 people always like to cite? Doubtful. But at the time it was seven months of game play you got with that purchase. Which in the Alpha (and assume beta)everyone who bought the packs is considered a subscriber. So you get al the perks. Look seven months down the road and see how many people are left in other games, maybe even this one. But the burnout factor in this game is GREATLY diminished. So even people playing right now have to be careful not to kill themselves for the official release.

As far as your definition and my definition of a cash grab. A cash grab is for trash games. If you spend money up fron for a game that lasts for years (Lotro is a great example) then what? Was their lifetime option (I bought two) a cash grab? Even after it went free to play? I would say yeah it might have been, but after 7+ years I would say that was money well spent. I will never ever spend another dime on that game including expansions because I get free credits every month. So theyre paying me to have an account with them at this point. So No a game that has legs and looks ot be a long lasting option isnt a cash grab, its an 'investment', and it really isnt even that because it isnt like your just paying money up front for a sub, you get in game items as well. I know you dont give them any 'value' because you havent played the game and dont know the economy and how much those items cost to buy or make (in material costs). not to mention the special workstation needed to make at least one of them.

If you really hate the game that much or see no value at all in it I suspect you could call and get a complete refund. I dont think anyone who bought the game and made up shit in their heads is too worried either way. These are the typical arguments of forum trolls who sit around inventing ways to bash a game.

When the game itself cant be bashed on its own merits, then the troll make up shit that they can throw around and hope people cling to.

As I have said there are thousands upon thousands of people playing this game, I imagine most of them (95%) bought the package. So people who arent swayed wont be missed. I know that is the typical argument, but the server is already running out of space to put stuff so at this point population isnt an issue and less people might be preferable to some.

I am a critic. But Mostly due to garbage games getting released at top dolar. This game is far from that, it is a quality product, it might be better than Rift. But thats not a fair comparison because this game was relleased 15 or so months ago in a different form. But it still has minimal bugs, and the only performance issues I see is a memory leak problem that reduces textures over time until the game eventually crashes unless you reload it. Sure some people on minimalistic computers are having troubles too, but on an adequate system the game runs almost perfectly. I have also not seen a bugged quest of any kind. No excuses on why something isnt spawning or not working. No phasing problems no loading screen issues (because there are no loading screens). Nothng like that at all.

So all these guys can keep making up shit to complain about but the most important thing(s) about the game are there, playabilty and longevity.

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People are always grumbling about how games are not enough in one aspect or another. There is no freedom ,sandbox,PvP, crafting, housing and so on and so forth. You see they even say we will pay more for a game that has the things I want .Well the opportunity is here for exactly that to pay for a game whose game play and features are what some folk want. So they pay to alpha. To you it might not be worth it but to them spending 160 bucks on 2 games a year that turn out to be lousy is definitely worse than paying 150 for an alpha of a game they will play much longer. Value is subjective.

The offer was very clear ,in no part does it say or suggest you can buy game time with the credits. If you jump to conclusions that are not supported then you have only yourself to blame. Ask more questions in future before you buy anything. I saved my money bu not jumping in and buying the Imperial Edition of ESO and now I can buy this game with the money I saved the beta of Archage. Spend your money wisely.

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" Guys like you want everything for nothing. You want your 90 days AND you want the other credits you got to be able to buy game time."

What? Do you even know what you're saying? I never said anything about wanting something for free and sure as shit want to be able to spend my money on game time.

"The game has been available in this version for about two weeks now. This 'information" was made available immediately, youre acting like the game has been open for sale for months and no one ever said anything about it. So being 'upfront' is a misnomer."

Uh no. That's why someone had to ask. Please don't add to the thead if your not going to add anything worthwhile to the discussion.

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Originally posted by kitarad

People are always grumbling about how games are not enough in one aspect or another. There is no freedom ,sandbox,PvP, crafting, housing and so on and so forth. You see they even say we will pay more for a game that has the things I want .Well the opportunity is here for exactly that to pay for a game whose game play and features are what some folk want. So they pay to alpha. To you it might not be worth it but to them spending 160 bucks on 2 games a year that turn out to be lousy is definitely worse than paying 150 for an alpha of a game they will play much longer. Value is subjective.

The offer was very clear ,in no part does it say or suggest you can buy game time with the credits. If you jump to conclusions that are not supported then you have only yourself to blame. Ask more questions in future before you buy anything. I saved my money bu not jumping in and buying the Imperial Edition of ESO and now I can buy this game with the money I saved the beta of Archage. Spend your money wisely.

I think the hitch here is that Trion presented the AA payment system like Rift's "No tricks no traps" model. While they didn't promise to implement it exactly, they use it as a template so it's not surprising that Trion customers expect to be able to buy Patron status with cash shop credits like they can in Rift. It was a huge selling point for their pre-release packs.

They billed the game as "F2P", again using their "No Tricks No Traps" mantra while being clear that players could only partake in housing and land ownership via Patron status. When they did discuss this they also said that there would be ways for players to obtain Patron status by playing the game in accordance with their "No Tricks No Traps" propaganda blurb.

I don't think there is anything wrong with monetizing the game how they feel is right, but they should not have billed it as F2P and relying heavily on the experience with Rift's system which has defined their "No Tricks No Traps" pledge.

The right thing to do would be to offer players a chance to refund their pre-release purchases if they're not happy with the planned payment system.

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" Guys like you want everything for nothing. You want your 90 days AND you want the other credits you got to be able to buy game time."

What? Do you even know what you're saying? I never said anything about wanting something for free and sure as shit want to be able to spend my money on game time.

"The game has been available in this version for about two weeks now. This 'information" was made available immediately, youre acting like the game has been open for sale for months and no one ever said anything about it. So being 'upfront' is a misnomer."

Uh no. That's why someone had to ask. Please don't add to the thead if your not going to add anything worthwhile to the discussion.

LMAO. You get something for that money, you get game time you get credits and you get in game items. if you dont think youll use all of them then move on. Wait for it to release and you can spend all the money you want on game time. Still dont see how that is a cash grab in the least.

Not sure what youre saying in the second part. Other than someone asking a specific question and getting a specific answer. The reason the person asked it I am sure is because everyone assumed something that was never stated. That isnt Trions fault people jump to conclusions. But when the question was asked the answered it. Less than a week in, so other than guys who basically bought in the first few days no one was left in the dark or had to assume anything.

One other thing people arent talking about is the nature of the land grab in this game, these packs give you a 4 day headstart, which in most games doesnt matter one bit. But in this game land is a premium. Already in alpha there is no land to be had for mid level sized farms or farm houses, even in the contested PvP zone. So one could possibly buy in, get a couple prime locations on a server and then sell the account for more than they bought it for. Not sure if that would be a ToS issue or not, but it will happen I am sure. even if it doesnt late comers on original servers will not find any place to put their houses. At least until people begin to let properties go or stop subscribing and those places open up. which for people willing to spend 150 up front probably isnt going to be an issue.

Bottomline is the thread was a flame to start with and people kept trying to pour gas on it. There will be ample avenues to spend money in this game. If you dont want to buy credits or think that pre purchasing credits is a waste then dont do it. But dont claim that because Trion is not allowing people to buy game time with credits means theyre cash grabbing. Whats the difference? Except that with the pre order packages theyre bundled together.

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Originally posted by Torvaldr

I think the hitch here is that Trion presented the AA payment system like Rift's "No tricks no traps" model. While they didn't promise to implement it exactly, they use it as a template so it's not surprising that Trion customers expect to be able to buy Patron status with cash shop credits like they can in Rift. It was a huge selling point for their pre-release packs.

They billed the game as "F2P", again using their "No Tricks No Traps" mantra while being clear that players could only partake in housing and land ownership via Patron status. When they did discuss this they also said that there would be ways for players to obtain Patron status by playing the game in accordance with their "No Tricks No Traps" propaganda blurb.

I don't think there is anything wrong with monetizing the game how they feel is right, but they should not have billed it as F2P and relying heavily on the experience with Rift's system which has defined their "No Tricks No Traps" pledge.

The right thing to do would be to offer players a chance to refund their pre-release purchases if they're not happy with the planned payment system.

I have only seena single post in the official forums asking for a refund. It has several pages of comments (I just re-read it) there isnt another person piggy backing that guys sentiments on wanting a refund. Migh be meaningless, but I dont think so. I have also only seen a handful (and more than likely alts of the same person due to wording and common misspellings) that dont like the game or are complaining.

So if there are upset people or people who thought they got duped I certainly havent seen more examples than this. Which considering how many people are playing is amazing.

Hey I waited a week myself. But I dont have any regrest. I also play Rift and have hordes of Rex. But I dont buy game time there anymore because it isnt worth it. In AA it will be. I also think a sub will be more 'valuabble' in AA than in Rift. Not even because one is new and one is a couple years old. But simply because of what you can and cant do in each as a patron or a freebie.

But I still suspect they will eventually offer game time with credits, maybe even at release. But you can be sure it wont be a perfect match dollar for dollar, nor should it be.

I suppose had they given two 150 dollar options one with 180 days game time and one as is people would have complained about that too since the 30 day (instead of the 11250 credits) werent 'equal' monetarily. While these same dipshits are in this thread trying to claim credits have no value anyway.

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I suspect many people who want to play this game, especially the target crowd, won't mind this detail at all. If I were to guess I would say it's likely that they will have a recurring sub anyway.

I do think that if there are people upset by this that my reasons above could be why. I'm also a bit surprised that they don't offer Patron status via the cash shop for credits like they do in Rift because they can do that without also offering a REX alternative. I do think Patron via the cash shop should be an option, but I'm not sure if REX is appropriate for this game. They should wait a little while until after launch to see how systems, politics, and game economics work before trying to introduce REX.

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Originally posted by andre369

They had that system in RIFT and saying AA would have a similar cash shop.

They said they would have a SIMILAR cash shop. NOT the exact same cash shop. AA is not the same game as RIFT. If anything, others and yourself were just assuming they would have the same system. And now because they don't have the feature you want...you are yelling a warning to stay away!

So basically another bunch of F2P people who want the entire game for free, and want a way to keep playing for free by taking advantage of some in game system to gain Premium status.