Corrections (Warriors 101, Blazers 93)

The Warriors are a dramatically better basketball team when Monta Ellis doesn’t dominate the ball and when Ellis’ teammates make themselves available to receive it. Both things happened Wednesday night against a lifeless Portland team playing its third game in three nights. There were some scary moments along the way and the Warriors shouldn’t plan on shooting 11-20 from behind the arc every night, but the changes in game-plan from Monday night’s disaster were clear and largely successful.

This was a game the Warriors had to win — first, because of their brutal collapse on Monday, but also because their opponent had played 144 minutes of basketball over the past 72 hours. The Warriors came out sluggishly, but gradually picked up momentum through the first quarter. Jackson blended his bench frontcourt (Rush, McGuire, Udoh) with his starting backcourt and the pairing immediately surged back into the lead on a 12-1 run. But the rotation tweaks (Jackson had been subbing his bench as a unit in the first half) weren’t the only noticeable changes. Three players stood out as keys to the Warriors finally converting a second half lead into a victory.

Monta Ellis, distributor. Ellis made a conscious effort to keep the ball moving and involve others in the offense. He didn’t just do it for a few possessions or a half, but the entire game. It cost him the 20 shots attempts he’s used to getting (he took only 9), but getting others involved in the offense paid huge dividends. Portland had planned to stifle Ellis, forcing him into bad shots. Instead of playing into the teeth of the defense, the Warriors found a way around it — moving the ball to get open looks for Rush, Lee and Curry. All three had better than average nights from outside — something I wouldn’t bank on in future games against better rested teams — but on Wednesday the plan worked perfectly. Credit to the coaching staff for trusting the rest of the team to deliver a win, and to Ellis for executing the game-plan. As we saw earlier in the season, the Warriors are going to be at a talent disadvantage against the top half of the league. They can only beat those teams by becoming more than the sum of their parts through unified, unselfish play.

Ekpe Udoh, defender. The plus/minus figure is a limited and flawed stat for a variety of reasons, but at least to my eye it captures an element of Udoh’s defensive contribution that otherwise doesn’t register on paper. Coming into the game, all of the Warriors leading plus/minus combination of players included Udoh. It’s no mystery why — as the team’s only interior defender, he plugs a gaping hole in their defensive web. Mark Jackson had shied away from using him in past fourth quarter, opting for smaller, more offensively focused players. Against Portland, he finally changed it up, letting Udoh play nearly the entire fourth quarter and repeatedly frustrate LaMarcus Aldridge’s post attempts. When Udoh gets defensive stops, the intensity of the rest of his game picks up. He starts asserting himself more, mixing it up for rebounds and making himself available on offense. The Udoh that impacted the game late Wednesday was a far cry from the passive rotation player we’ve seen for much of the year. Given the Warriors’ thin frontcourt, we need to see more of this Udoh.

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Stephen Curry, shooter. How do you stop Curry from turning the ball over in the half-court? At least in the short-term, one way is to stop asking him to create. With Ellis not dominating the ball, the entire team was integrated into the offense and moving the ball. That took the pressure off Curry to create — or force — something in set offense. Instead, with Ellis and Lee becoming the main distributors, Curry was free to move without the ball and get to open spots on the floor. He did an excellent job of it and shot a tremendous 12-19, including 6-8 from behind the arc. Curry still had a hand in creating for others, but he did it in the open court and on fast breaks, where his creativity has a little bit more breathing room than when the team is working through sets against established defenses. I’m not sure this arrangement, essentially moving Curry to shooting guard, is a long-term solution for the team, but at least for one night with Ellis committed to being a distributor, it delivered impressive results.

I see no problem with criticizing Mark Jackson for coaching mistakes — if you’re going to become a head coach despite no experience, you have to expect that people will question your grasp on the subtleties of the game — but equally important is his willingness to adapt and experiment to correct problems. Running the same Ellis isolation at the end of every close game showed no responsiveness or creativity, and was rightfully criticized. But his tweaks to the game-plan coming off of Monday’s collapse at least show a recognition that something needs to change. Time will tell whether those changes are just more band-aids or long-term fixes (I tend to think the former).

For now, the Warriors at least have a pretty clear roadmap for what they need to do to beat teams in the top half of the NBA: move the ball unselfishly, move without the ball to get open looks, scrap together some interior defense to raise the difficulty level for opponents, and attack the defense rather than settling for whatever it wants to give you. The Warriors still have plenty of room for improvement in all four areas, but there were signs of progress across the board against Portland. If the team is going to salvage this home-stand after an 0-2 start, it’s going to take more than just one game of improved play.

Adam Lauridsen

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sorry fellow………..that 11 games dummy and they also last year played a handful of games without him and still won…..

you don’t pass the test………..without lee the warriors collapsed and without curry they are just fine……just accpet the fact

Kommon Senze

@ Truth Drink

This year isn’t even a full season, so basing any conclusions off the small sample size is worthless (but you probably have no clue about statistical significance, do you).

But, if you want to do the stupid dance you’re doing, let’s look at last year..

Warriors with Curry 33-41 (.446)
Warriors without Curry 3-5 (.375)

Warriors with Ellis 35-45 (.438)
Warriors without Ellis 1-1 (.500)

Warriors with Ellis, without Curry (3-5)
Warriors with Curry, without Ellis (1-1)

So, using your logic, because the Warriors were 7.1% better with Curry than without, and 6.2% worse with Ellis than without, Ellis, not Curry, should go.

Now stfu and leave. Ok? Your statistical analysis is juvenile and pointless.

Kommon Senze

Oh.. and how about those Warriors in 2009-10, when they went 19-45 (.298) with Ellis in the lineup, and 7-11 (.389) without him in the lineup. They had a better record without him, and that .298 is not over an 8 game sample, but 64.

We can all play this idiotic game your playing, Truth Drink, but none of us want to. So, again, do us all a favor and take your ball and play with some other kids elsewhere.

TruthDrink

you are so flustered right now you are now turning on ellis just to prove curry is good?

wowowowow

last time i checked monta won in the playoffs……curry??????

where?

any sightings of curry in playoffs?

and to get you back on track ……david lee missed those games when curry, ellis…..or both were in those games…..so your point again???

nothing….typical deflection….. the 3-5 last year actually is probably really good and even with 35 wins that still makes him horrible with -10 last year and then -30 his rookie year and now – 5 this year

so do the math confuse dumf…ck he’s 45 game below .500 in his career..

if you like to set the bar that low….that’s probably why you didn’t want to trade the girly ankle boy

Frank

Bullship: You would trade any “Warrior” for Kanter. I guess you include Curry, Ellis and Lee in the group you would trade for him Realy? The guy is a joke. What makes you believe he is so good? His 48% shooting? His 69% foul shooting? His scoring 4.8 points per game? His rebounding? His interior defense?

As for the site you refer to that provides stats for centers, where is the stat that shows how teams shoot against them when they are on the court or how they defend the rim. There are none. So, the lowest center on the list may be a far better defender than anyone listed above. So much for your list.

And you want Lin who can not shoot 40% from the field over Jenkins who shoots over 50% from the field. Hasn’t Lin been cut by a few teams? And by the way, Jenkins can play defense. Just look at his steal numbers in college.

Curry and Ellis are great, and would do even better if Jackson uses them correctly. One day posters on this site who want to trade one or both of them will come to the realization, that a so-called small backcourt provides the team with certain advantages as well as disadvantes when over a bigger backcourt. And Rush is a good third guard, who has to play SF sometimes because D.Wright disappears sometimes on both sides of the court.

That being said, Rush is not as good as Ellis. And, if we lost Ellis for a big, we would have no one to back up or D.Wright. And by the way,

I want us to trade for Byron Mullen because I believe that he is a better center than either Biedrins or the new big we picked up.

TruthDrink

and with the 10th pick in the 2012 nba draft

the golden state warriors select…….

Seth Curry from duke

TruthDrink

he’s young and has alot of potential

Kommon Senze

@Truth Drink

Not desperate. I’m pointing out how totally lacking in the knowledge of stats, statistical relevance, etc. you are. You make yourself look foolish with every “stat” argument you try to raise, because you are pulling selective, insignificant stats that mean nothing.

By your logic, Luke Walton is a stud, because.. well.. just look at his career winning percentage. Just look at it. Forget who the other players on the team were. Ignore the actual relevant stats that are a far better measure of impact and value. Let’s just go with win percentage, regardless of what it actually represents.

You’re a certified moron, Truth Drink. Everybody here knows it but you, but that makes sense, because you lack the mental faculties to comprehend when you, not anyone else, look utterly foolish trying to make a point.

Keep on barking about Curry being trash. It’s quite comical how badly you want to have that argument work.

Even your whole “they won without Curry” argument falls flat because, in those 8 games he missed, they won at a lower percentage, which, by your flimsy logic, actually shows that he was more important to the team on it than off.

Ignormaus, thy name is Truth (drink).

Frank

Robinson plays approximately the same number of minutes as Rush, and outshoots Robinson 50% to 40% on 2’s, and Rush makes 57% of his three’s, compared to Robinson’s 29%.

Regardless of whether they are on the court at the same time, why is the coach letting Robinson take almost 9 shots per game to Rush’s 6.5 shots per game? Just plain stupid. The coach has to attempt to control the distribution of shot taking.

That is why Meir is out of his mind when he says that Ellis should be a high volume shooter when there are usually three other shooters on the court who shoot a higher FG%.

I don’t think TruthDrunk could be as stupid as his inane drivel suggests. He’s your run-of-the-mill troll seeking to bait others. This run of idiotic posts has come at a greater frequency than we’ve seen before. He’s clearly thriving on the attention. The kid’s just some sad, lonely, socially-inept nobody. Scroll the troll.

Col, I’m not a Lee champion or hater. I just thought he deserved being singled out along with the other players Adam highlighted as notably contributing to the Portland win.

bullship

I guess you include Curry, Ellis and Lee in the group you would trade for him Realy

Frank the answer to that is YES! of course! Who would not? I probably would not give up all three – but I would consider it.

Frank- I know you love stats-and I did not mean that list of C’ to be the be all end all btw, just a good list of names to look at- but Stats do not win basketball games. Players do.

Kanter runs well, moves well, is agressive, is big, strong, physical , has good hands, is showing a good basketball IQ, even has a decent mid range jump shot. He is physically talented enough to be a force in the post on both ends and is only 19 years old.He is 6’11” and shooting 69% from the line as a rookie in somewhat limited mins- actually a pretty good % for a big rookie 20 games in- and 48% is not a bad % either. He is putting up numbers numbers -in all facets of the game – as a rookie that are similar to another Utah player that turned out ok- karl malone.

But more than that- Can’t you see why he was the 3rd overall pick in the Draft? And see how much potential he has? His downside is Bogut…his upside? All-Star caliber for 10 years. It does take big guys- especially young ones- a few years.

He is 5 years younger than Udoh and is already a much much better player- he has a legit shot at being a top 10 4-5 in the NBA. In other words he is better than any Warrior big since Webber and before that JBC.

Sooo…yes yes yes trade ellis or curry for him…DUH

http://Yahoo! PeteyBrian

@112 JanG

“Curry/AB for Augustin/Diaw. ”

Andris Biedrins – even as he sucks right now – can be salary dumped. SOMEONE will take Andris off the W’s hands for an expiring contract/garbage player, which is what Diaw is now. So AB for Diaw is not a stretch and within reason.

So in essence – what you’re talking about here is:

Stephen Curry for D.J. Augustin.

Have you seen D.J. Augustin play much? No, not in college, the NBA. He’s a bust. D.J. can run a team? Well, Charlotte’s record is 3-16. IN THE EAST. Thank god they played the Warriors at home (sans Curry) or they’d be 2-17!

Curry’s value is hit, no doubt, until he proves he’s healthy – just like Monta Ellis after mopedgate. But D.J. Augustine? Serious?

Stephen Curry – was just about traded for Chris Paul (along with others).

Better to take the chance on Curry’s complete recovery and re-evaluate his trade value.

Stick to defending Monta Ellis and his crappy +/-.

At least once every few games, you’ll be right.

TruthDrink

i tried today to make you all come to your senses but it make take a bit more time:

have a great time tonight watching steph curry have a sub par game and then your post game excuse will be????

he’s young and the sample size is small and david lee is to blame

Kommon Senze

@ sartre

I think scrolling will become di rigeur soon enough, but, as far as being as dumb as he sounds, have you read some of his classic run-on, redundant, grammar pathetic posts? I do think he’s that stupid. 😛

Truth Drink
face it, KS is right and you are wrong. dead wrong. You have no reasoning power, just like when you came on here before under another name.

Don’t quote stats if you don’t know how to use them. I second everything KS said about your faulty stats. Same old same old for you.

NO credibility. Just garbage.

bullship

Frank,

And I am not really saying I WANT lin- but he was on the roster- was cheap- and gave the Warriors a chance to see what it would look like to pair curry/ellis with a big PG at no risk- just sayin. This season is toast anyway-right?

And you are right Rush is not as good as Ellis- HE IS BETTER. My guess is the Warriors would do better to be starting Rush at 2 and having Ellis come off the bench- it is worth a look anyway.

And any combo of players- all bigs- all smalls- smalls/bigs etc can work for teams – THE KEY IS THE RIGHT PLAYERS TOGETHER.

And Curry-Ellis- Lee are on their 100th game together or so- and it is not working.

And I am willing to go on record as saying the Curry/Ellis is never going to work for the Warriors- as in Work= winning 50+ games and having a chance in the playoffs….

http://Yahoo! PeteyBrian

@Deano

The main problem with the Nets trading Brooks Lopez to the Warriors in any trade is that he’s the one chip the Nets need to have to send to Orlando to acquire Dwight Howard.

Near the trade deadline – it’ll be exciting – to see where Howard lands – and the resulting trades afterwards…

meir34

Truth Drink, you miss the point.This is a romantic Love Curry board and they attack anyone who suggests anything less than wonderful in their eyes about their hero/love object. I’ll post a game and praise his shooting and if it’s one where he has good assist to turnovers, I’ll praise that too. Then if it’s one or even a string of 1-1 or even worse numbers, even if you are praising his shooting to the hilt, it’s personal attacks, arguments to go elsewhere, as they did with you, being called idiot or moron, and you’ve got it right: since day one Monta has been perceived as a threat to Curry’s position or dominance in the press and it’s been trade Monta and most would have gladly simply cut him. Meanwhile Curry never does anything less than perfect and if he’s doing poorly in some areas it’s the coaches fault, the GM and of course the owner is a money grubber and one even called Guber a money grubbing hollywood type. The old anti Semitic phrase.

Some here, I honestly believe are posting from an institution. There isn’t even a grade school level of critical thinking going on. BTW, to some extent they were the same about B. Wright and AR, though by now the truth is creeping in on the least far gone. Some have decided that our letting Jeremy Lin go is evidence of some grievous sin, while the best move we’ve made in fifteen years, finally signing Lee our first real PF since Webber gets constantly criticized. Imagine this: some actually criticized management for not using the amnesty on him!!!

BTW II, for the uninformed here, once we decided for various reasons we weren’t going to use the amnesty on Biedrins, either out of need, insurance or because we think we can recoup some of his 18 mill owed left through trade, there was little lost in using it on Bell to enable us to make the offer to Jordan, which we couldn’t have without letting some others go. The amnesty can’t be saved for a future bad pickup. For example had we signed Paul or any expensive player and he got injured, this amnesty COULD NOT have been used on that player. Only players on the roster at the time of the new CBA’s effective date. It was designed to be a one time only way out of ownership’s getting out of some cap limit killer to get new players. It might not be a bad idea for the future, but for now that’s it and from the posts here it’s clear many didn’t understand it or the provisions of the new CBA.

If you try to educate those, it’s more attacks or scroll the troll or whatever idiotic comments they or their alter ego screen names conceive of.

bryhsiao

Wait, Satre and everyone.

I think TruthDrink is trying to show us something.

Remember Meir’s drivel that Curry hadn’t led us anywhere over the past 2 years and totally ignore anyone else on the team? He also used the W-L of the past two years to support his argument but forgot Monta also was on the team during that time.

TruthDrink is doing the same thing in a much shorter/concise posts.

This proved that both are morons.
Thank god, it’s crystal clear now.

bullship

Well that pretty much clinches it-

Meir is reaching out to and agreeing with Truth.

idiocy loves company….

meir34

Well Lee and Ellis are clearly our two best players. Our clear biggest need is for a Center, especially with Kwame down. Our biggest drag on cap is Andris so moving him as soon as we get some center help, or as part of the same deal is important.

Andris + Monte-20 mill in current salary obligations with a max of 27 mil and 33 mil, for a total of 53 million intotal salary obligations if the players fail to exercise their player option (as AB almost surely won’t).

Andris + Stephen is 12.1 million is current salary obligations with a max of 34 million is total salary obligations if Andris fails to exercise his player option.

You can figure the likely appeal of either package yourself if you can face reality. BTW, one reason the Lakers haven’t had any serious nibbles at Pau Gasol, as great a player as he is, is that he is owed 55 million in salary. And that’s the same reason Bynum has had some interest, he’s owed a total of 14.9 in salary obligation, with a TEAM OPTION on him for an additional year at 16 mill.

Numbers and statistics scare or are misused by a number of people here. These figures are capable of being understood clearly by most 6th graders though the logical conclusions that fly in the face of the Curry-love seem to elude many.

Gee, such a cogent argument Bullslip, or is it ship or maybe even something else. I see why 6th grade level stuff eludes you. If you are what’s left here now, it’s time to mosey on. ONCE, just once, someone respond to reasoned arguments with reasoned replies. Insults, as Ralph Waldo Emerson said, “Are the defense of the weak.”

I take that back, after the AR analysis, I abridge that to 5th grade thinking.

Did it ever dawn on you Bull that a) there is more to a game than points from a pf or 3 or whatever he is, and b) playing against subs CANNOT be projected to a 36 minute comparison with starters. Apples and Oranges. Both fruits but different. And that’s just one of the problems. I can post similar numbers for subs all over the league. You build your team that way, thanks, I’ll go with the usual and give credence to the problems AR has had here, in and in NY. It’s his fourth season in the NBA, his fourth coach and even at this stage he’s only earned 12+ minutes a game. You contact Minny’s brass and tell them that for only two cents you’ve got the solutions to all their problems and all about your projections.

bullship

That is why you are an idiot- you make declarations without any basis in FACT..

And maybe try an watch the games- you know see how the player play too….

But you obviously do not understand the game of basketball at all- AT ALL. And you never played it, coached it or ever had anything to do with professional sports other than attend games- I have done all three- so get a clue and try and learn something…

meir34

You are right Bullmouth, I’ll line up with Coach Jackson, Jim Barnett and all the others on this one. BTW, what position does Curry play in your system? He got his first good numbers last game pulled away from the PG duties. Is he your non-driving, open breakaway layups included, big turnover (in the last game Jim B noted that and said you want 2 1/2-1 or even 3-1 from your PG), short, slow, poor defending 2? I love his outside shot and figure that if I’m wrong about his ankle he’d have to be used as a sixth man to get the advantages of his shot without all the other disadvantages killing the team.

bullship

And the league is full of subs that once they got on the floor with the starters- worked out pretty well mier- Tracy McGrady ring a bell? Steve Nash? Etc.

And randolph is still only 22- younger than udoh- and he is a head case- but there is certianly potential.

Enough…go away…

Kommon Senze

@ meir

You can STFU, as well. The Curry love crap is beyond idiotic.

1) You’ve failed to provide any numbers that are coherent, logical, or properly contextualized that actually back up your points. (In fact, rather than actual analysis, your more prone to cite anonymous ‘authority’ to try and inflate your premise).

2) You also fail to recognize that there is a difference between being blindly supportive of Curry, and being objectively swayed to believe Curry retains greater individual value than Ellis. The former suggests an equally blind hate for Ellis (something you concoct, again, to try and make your stance more meaningful), but who in here has actually blindly hated on Ellis? Seriously. Who? When you come up with that list, and then look over the greater list of who actually posts in here, you’ll find that the vast majority of people don’t share the vision you propose they do.

3) You keep making these arguments about how salary play into things, but you fail to recognize two huge paradoxical statements you’ve made that render your salary arguments moot. First, you call Curry “dead meat” and have suggested he’s untradeable until this ankle issue is settled. If that’s the case, why would any team care if his salary is less than Ellis? If he’s dead meat, who is going to take him? You yourself have stated or implied that no one will because his ankle issue is “that serious.” Can’t have it both ways, kemosabe. Second, you have also conversely argued that you don’t want to be on the hook to pay Curry a big money extension when the time comes. Why would any other team want to be on the hook for that big money extension, either, then? Right now, it’s $3.1 million, and manageable. Great. And later?

I should note that the ability for a team to take on $20 million in a deal for Ellis and Biedrins (a restriction you put on trading Ellis, btw, not everyone else), is not as difficult as you claim. There are a number of teams that could potentially take both. It may require that the Warriors take back at least one long-term contract back, as well, so at that point, it just become a point of finding a player that makes more sense from a team building standpoint than Biedrins.

In any case, none of the arguments being made as to why Curry might be prefereable to keep over Ellis has to do with some infatuation with Curry. That’s your f’d up personal issue projected onto this forum. Until you can keep that to yourself, please go seek treatment and stay away.

meir34

bullmouth, I’ve watched every single game. And I saw most of the home games in person in the decades I lived in the Bay Area. And I’ve used Basketball Reference regularly. And, I UNDERSTAND statistics at the level of teaching it, research design and methodology at the Graduate School level at major universities for pver three decades. So tell me a bit about selective use of statistics, fella.

meir34

Okay outta here now. KS if you had any, you’d deal with the salary numbers I gave and argue from them or that they are incorrect. That you can insult only reinforces why I place you in the same grouping as so many here.

Be well, kiss some more Curry a$$ and ignore reality. With myself and Truth gone you guys can do your circle jerk again about how bad Monta or Melo or Lee are and how wonderful Curry, AR, BW and Lin are!! Night! Have fun, just grunt silently, please!!

bullship

181…

Ok …do you know anything about WS, PERS, EFG USG%? Anything?

Curry is the best Warrior in all those – and Ellis is THE WORST.

I have only posted about 100 times that Curry- like Ellis- is a combo guard that should play along side a bigger guard that can handle and defend.

On the Warriors currently – he is their best guard- and should be playing the point. I would pair him with Rush…but whatever..

sartre

I don’t normally bother. But this is too funny.

“Some here, I honestly believe are posting from an institution.”

“There isn’t even a grade school level of critical thinking going on.”

“These figures are capable of being understood clearly by most 6th graders though the logical conclusions that fly in the face of the Curry-love seem to elude many”

“Gee, such a cogent argument Bullslip, or is it ship or maybe even something else. I see why 6th grade level stuff eludes you.”

After insulting the board what does meir utter?

“Insults, as Ralph Waldo Emerson said, “Are the defense of the weak.””

Well, he got that right

dave in LA

If I didn’t have to go vacumn my dog, I could be well entertained watching Bull and Meir go at one another… Have fun kids…..

Kommon Senze

Oh, and to back up bullship..

Ellis is ineffecient as a shooter, and his impact on the floor is not as great as him individual stats. It’s why he should not be the primary ball-handler unless he can repeatedly play like he did against Portland. Being a great 1-1 player is fine in street ball, but in the NBA, it doesn’t build championship teams. Stephon Marbury was one of the greatest individual talents the league has seen, but he couldn’t lead a team to win when it counted without superior players to offset his “ball through me” style of play.

That’s not to say that Ellis cannot be a quality contributor to a team (a point I do disagree with bullship on). Ellis has skills, but, imo, he’s best stuck off the ball and focused on scoring. His limitations as a ball-facilitator, historically, is why I’d rather build with a player who impacts the overall team much more positively than Ellis.

Ellis might be able to put up greater individual numbers, and might be a better individual athlete. Curry continually demonstrates better overall court awareness, and any number of advanced metrics, rate stats, and quantitative analysis of his individual plays (i.e., Synergy’s stat breakdowns) all show this.

He’s not had a particularly stellar start to this season, but let’s see how it evens out by the end of the year. The statistical sample size is too small right now to really gauge his play, especially since he has been hurt and has played hurt early on.

Ellis is a good player. But it’s highly debatable that he means more to the Warriors, and certainly not proven that he has a more positive impact.

Anybody who knows how to do proper research will understand this. I expect better from someone who has taught at university. In fact, I feel bad for the students of such a person who is not more circumspect in how he conducts his research. Biased research is not research at all.

bullship

KS

I didn’t really mean to say that Ellis has no game- or is not a good player. There is much to like about his game- but he is not a great fit with the current Warriors for sure. He would be great currently on a team like the Celtics or SA- off the bench offense- playing along side Genobli or Allen would be pretty exciting. He would fit in Minne – in Orlando etc – you get the idea. I honestly see him playing 22-30 mins a game on a good team and being the 3rd or 4th scorer- maybe like Terry on the Mav’s.

But due to the Warriors roster and overall situation – I think he should be traded- sooner the better – before his age or injuries become a factor.

Kommon Senze

@meir

You don’t even know what I do for a living, but I can tell you. Questioning me on statistical analysis, especially when all you do is provide selective and improperly contextualized data and call it stats that a 6th grader would understand, is laughable.

As I said, when you can explain your paradoxical statements surrounding Curry and his value (conveniently lacking value and volatile due to his ankle injury for the Warriors, but surprisingly great value for other teams), we can talk about those numbers you’ve pulled up, that are quite meaningless in the context you presented.

If you actually read, you’ll see I’ve said NO player on the Warrior roster is untouchable, including Curry. That’s not irrational love for him in the slightest. It’s rooted in an objective and thoroughly considered evaluation of the players on the team.

You can try all you want to spin the interest in him from other teams as being solely based on his rookie salary, but you’d be flat wrong. A little research of recent discussion (articles, tweets, etc.) can easily set that misguided idea straight. He remains the most sought after Warrior because his upside, his skill set, and his production warrant it. His ankle injury has subdued that for the short term, but, as noted, let’s see how his numbers and outlook look at the end of this season before prematurely passing verdicts on his future.

Meir.. your problem is you argue inductively. You choose a conclusion, and then try to make things stick to defend the position. If Ellis was truly the better player, based on my research, I’d have zero problem defending that position. Back in 2007, after he put up a month of shooting over 60% from the field, I had no problem noting that he was far more valuable than Baron or Stack Jack. That was then, this is now.. you have to base your conclusions on defensible research. You provide nothing. Saying you watch games means crapola if your observations prove faulty or questionable, which they often do (from citing plays that never happened to providing analysis which is contrary to what nearly everyone else saw).

I’ll say it again. You’re the one who earn the bombast returned to you because you’re the one who tries to call out the entire forum with your idiotic “Curry Love” drivel. When you can argue without that, perhaps the insults that are return volleys (not first shots) will end.

believewhat

mini-me(ir),

“and with the 10th pick in the 2012 nba draft

the golden state warriors select…….

Seth Curry from duke”

Now, read sloooooowly. If Ws don’t crack top 7, they don’t have a pick. Why is that, I will not even go that far to explain to you the same way I will not explain to a four year old.

Kommon Senze

@ Bullship

I agree that Ellis might look better paired with certain players, no question. I also think that, the reality might be that the Warriors might need to move Curry and focus on building around Lee and Ellis. It’s not my preferred direction, but if there’s the right trade out there, that may be the direction the team has to consider going in.

bryhsiao

KS, exactly.
We have said the same thing over and over that no one here hates Monta blindly or loves Curry blindly.

Meir does that in an opposite way though.

Can you guys all laugh at this gem from Meir
“there is more to a game than points from a pf ”

He called Bullship out by saying that.
Such hyperpole.

He is the one knowing nothing but just PPG, steals but nothing else for evaluating Monta.
Ast/to ratio but nothing else for evaluating Curry.

Like to evaluate a PG, the only thing matter is Ast/to ratio.
He doesn’t even care how a PG helps his team play better on the court.
WS, TS, adj +/-. usage%, and a lot more all suggested Curry helped the team play better a lot more than Monta.

Monta’s FG% is a tad better now at 42%FG, 24% 3pt at the starting SG spot.
How does a PG get many assists from such an inefficient SG with usage rate 32.5% (ball on his hand ALOT)?

however, as long as Monta is passing to much better shooters on this team, he can rack up assists simply.

“Saying you watch games means crapola if your observations prove faulty or questionable, which they often do (from citing plays that never happened to providing analysis which is contrary to what nearly everyone else saw).”

Yeah, the famous quotes from Martin “I watch every game” Meir

“Monta held Westbrook in check the whole night” –> lie. It was Curry.
““When after two + years our coach correctly decides that in crunch time our pg should be Nate Robinson, and Curry has his best game when he DOESN”T play point guard”” –> lie. Nate only subbed for Curry for 2mins in the mid 4th qtr.

btw now he says Curry didn’t play PG last game when he played well even with 7:1 ast/to ratio. Remember he often claimed Curry was listed at PG so all his weak art/to pointed he was a bad PG even though when Monta had the ball in his hand all the time?

Wait, now curry didn’t play PG anymore for that 38mins night?

Can we now brag about Curry is such an awesome SG with 7:1 ast/to ratio, and ultra efficient 12-19FG, 6-8 3pt, 6rebs, 4 steals?
Maybe we should let him play SG and give all Monta’s shots to Curry since he is so awesome at SG then?

Of course Curry played PG and Monta also played a bit there. Guards with the ball in their hands a lot will have to create for the team and should net more assists.
The problem was who they were passing to have to make their shots without dribbling.

Monta to Curry -> much higher % chance to net an assist.
Curry to Monta -> much lower % chance to net an assist.

That first scenario doesn’t happen often enough because Monta likes to go 1onN.
That later scenario happens often enough but Monta cannot make simple jumpers consistently with his 42%FG 24% 3pt and Monta has to dribble to get his points in the lane.

easy stuffs.
Meir is just like Satre described earlier “where was I again? blah blah blah. Where was I again? blah blah blah, Where was I again? Oh that Bum Curry”

Man, he doesn’t even know how illogical he sounds these days.

Kommon Senze

@bry

Oh, I know he claims to watch all the games. I doubt he has NBA Ticket, the only way he could watch all the games up in Ashland (I’ve checked), but anyway..

It’s clear he often just makes up stuff as he posts, because as I do watch most of the games (not all), I’ve seen multiple times where he literally makes up posts about what is happening on the floor.

David Lee stopping Aldridge? Uh.. no. It was mostly Udoh, but he’ll use the Aldridge poor game stats till the cows come home, because it fits his argument that Lee “outplayed and stopped” the big man.

Lots of this throughout his posts over the years, yet he still won’t admit how totally BS most of his posts are. At his age, I think he gets to the point that he doesn’t even care if it’s not real, because he thinks, if he believes hard enough, it’ll become true.

monsta

Meir baits. That’s what he does, that’s all he does. He does not watch the games, he does not care about basketball. He is here to bait.

montasbiggestfan

KS-

What do you think of our debate over Caron Butler and Dorell Wright? Not trying to start anything, but we are through a good portion of the season. Butler has been mediocre offensively, but his defense looks pretty decent in the limited time I have watched him play this season.

Wright has been downright awful…

montasbiggestfan

“Meir baits. That’s what he does, that’s all he does. He does not watch the games, he does not care about basketball. He is here to bait.”