The basics in my handout from the NHC still apply with one difference - I don't do a mash in at 104F anymore. It seems superfluous with modern malts, although it won't hurt. And passing through the protein rest briefly on the way from 104 to 145 does seem to slightly improve foam stand. But I just mash in the main mash at 144-146 and rest it there.

Some minor differences and/or comments:

* I haven't been able to get 6-row malt lately. I still prefer it, but 2-row works fine.

* I have taken to pressure cooking the cereal mash after it rests at ~153F 20-30 minutes. I put it in an 8-qt ss pot, then put this in a 22-qt pressure cooker and cook it at 15 psi (240F) for 20-30 minutes. This is traditional - some brewers were pressure cooking mashes 100 years ago.

This has several advantages. If eliminates scorching since you are not applying heat directly to the bottom of the vessel that holds the mash. It can be quicker since you really only need a few minutes at 240F to completely cook even coarse brewers grits. I cook longer than necessary to develop some extra flavor similar to decoction mashing. (BTW, I have also been doing this as a pseudo-decoction with ~1/3 of my mash in all malt lagers).

I wouldn't recommend this if you are using rice rather than corn. Old texts warn against over-cooking rice as it can lead to stuck mashes, although I've had no experience. Besides, if you are using rice, it's probably to get that light, crisp style, and the richer flavor and slightly darker color are inappropriate.

The disadvantage is that it requires a pretty big pressure cooker. I have an "All American" brand model 921 that I really like. It has no gasket, but rather a metal to metal seal. I got it used from a friend. You can get them on eBay, too. It is also good for pressure canning yeast starters. It hold seven quart mason jars.

* Hopping - I really like the traditional flavor of Cluster for bittering hops, but use just about any noble or noble-type for first wort hopping. I typically will use American varieties such as Mt. Hood, Liberty of Crystal as these are usually fresher. Including the contribution of the FWH, I aim for mid to upper 30s IBUs.

* My target gravity is 1.050-1.052, with 75-80% attenuation. My batch last spring got an amazing 84%! 1.050--> 1.008. It was really crisp and dry. I think I got it because the repitched yeast seemed a little slow (surprisingly) to finish, so I just left it in the primary at 48F for six weeks, then kegged it and lagered it another two weeks or so under pressure. It was great, but all in all I think I prefer the slightly richer, less alcoholic 75% aa.

* I LOVE WhiteLabs WLP822 German Bock yeast, which is from Ayinger. It's too bad they couldn't name it Ayinger, but since that's the name of the only brewery in the village of Aying in Bavaria, they couldn't claim it was simply a geographic name. It is good for so much more than simply Bocks. They chose the name because the Ayinger brewery is famous for its bock. The yeast works great for CAPs and almost any other lager.

Hope this helps. It's great to see so many people brewing this great style. I have contacts with brewers in UK, Australia, NZ, South Africa, Norway, Netherlands, Austria and even (gasp!) Germany who brew it and love it.

I've had a CAP on deck for a while, and now that I've got my new chest freezer I'll be able to do it. However, I was in a rush down at the LHBS and picked up Bavarian lager yeast instead of Bohemian. Has anybody used this for lighter lagers?

Check out that mash temperature of 144 to 146. How many homebewer's shoot for THAT low a temperature? Myself, I do shoot for the low side, because if anything, home brew seems to tend towards too "thick."

Jeff likes Cluster. Daniels slams Cluster in his book.

Jeff left his lager in the primary for 6 weeks at 48F! MY MAN! Then he kegged and let it sit for 2 more weeks. What I see here is a real blurring between what has conventionally been regarded as primary, secondary, and lagering. I tend toward this technique, and I think it's pretty cool.

If you read the notes from Renner's earlier CAP recipes, he conducts a step mash. Since he discusses how he does a pseudo-decoction with his cereal mash, it seems pretty clear that he's mashing in at 144-5F, then using the cereal mash/decoction to raise the temperature for a step in the mid-high 150s.

However, I will say that I agree with you about many homebrews being too dextrous, which is why I mash my CAPs at 150F.Greg Beron Culver City Home Brewing Supply www.brewsupply.com

Rob, I would normally have turned my nose up at your recipe because you use more hops for flavor and aroma than I would ever use for a CAP, but I will give it a try this spring.

Clusters are a great bitting hop that carries its flavor through the finished product. I have heard many brewers bad mouth them without ever using them. In fatc my LHBS store stopped carrying them! Now I have to have them special order them for me.

He doesn't say how long this rest is, but starch conversion can occur in only a few minutes.

"I have taken to pressure cooking the cereal mash after it rests at ~153F 20-30 minutes."

I don't understand this. A cereal mash (in this case) is simply the corn (polenta?), correct? Why let it sit at ~153F. It has no converting enzymes in it. Most likely I don't know what a cereal mash is?

I know I'm missing something. I've never done a decoction, or even a step-mash, though I believe I understand the process and expected results.

"I have taken to pressure cooking the cereal mash after it rests at ~153F 20-30 minutes."

That's to allow the 6 row that's in the cereal mash to convert. Just like a decoction where you pull it, let it rest at conversion temp, and then bring to a boil before adding back to the mash.

To be honest I'm not clear on why you even need any base malt in a cereal mash IF the only purpose is to gelatinize the starches in the corn or rice. In a decoction it makes sense as you're converting the starches already gelatinized before boiling. Could it just be a traditional carryover of decoctions that doesn't really do anything? Anyone?

If you've ever done a cereal mash with corn you'll know why some (about 10 percent) base malt is recommended. It's to provide husk material so the corn doesn't become a gooey, pasty mess. Six-row is best because it has more husks, but as a practical matter you can use two-row.

When the trace amount of six-row converts in a cereal mash, the cereal mash becomes far less gooey and viscous. Trust Jeff on this one. I think its more about the enzyme conversion, and less about the husks.

Howdy folks, sorry for the delay. This is the recipe that won 2nd in the MCAB this year (out of 3). This recipe looks a lot like Rob's except for the yeast. The judge's comments are usually "not crisp enough", but I haven't received the MCAB results yet. I split this batch between WLP 830 and 833. The 830 was what I entered. the 833 was more like a cream ale. I've never used an American Lager yeast. Anyone care to compare the differences? I fermented this for 2 weeks at 50F, then did a diacetyl rest at basement temperature for 2-3 days, then secondary at 50F for 2 weeks before lagering. I also agree with Miker about pils malt and that I like 2 row better.

I'm going to make Renner's CAP next weekend. I'm going to use flaked corn and forget the cereal mash. The question is, should I just do a single infusion mash around 150-152 or should I do a step mash (as Renner suggests) at 140-144 and 156-158?

I have done nothing but single infusions at 152F and love the results. I have also done this recipe (actually his original recipe with clusters and styrian goldings) with pale malt instead of pils and really liked the pale malt versions. I plan on doing back to back pils vs. pale this spring with the same yeast and same hops to see which one I like best.

Tom, I had used the WhiteLabs 833 Bock yeast on my last several CAPs. I wanted to get a slightly more dry and crisp finish, so I tried the Wyeast 2035 American Lager this time. According to everything I've read, it's supposed to be the Schells strain and as I remember their Deer Beer, it had the finish that I was shooting for. The WhiteLabs gave me 73% apparent attenuation, while the Wyeast gave me 75%, with both of them working at 50 degF.

I'd have to agree with Rob - the best CAP I have ever made was with WY2035. Actually, the best schwarzbier I ever made was with WY2035. Note to self: Order WY2035 in late November when lager brewing season comes around again.