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07 Mar 2007, 06:21

While it's always fun to daydream about pulling $300+K/yr in IB, I will warn anyone that you will be miserable at these positions if you don't truly enjoy what you're doing. Taking a job just because it pays well is buying a one-way ticket to an early midlife crisis.

Of all the people I know who bitch about money (or lack thereof!) the most, it's the folks working in investment banking. And yet, they are amongst the top earners in any MBA alumni group.

But then again, the industry is self-selecting. Those who put a higher premium on money and status tend to be attracted to these jobs in the first place. And those who don't tend to stay away from the industry entirely (and go into consulting, marketing, corporate, tech, etc. or whatever bankers have contempt for). What used to be a job for the upper crust white males (in the 1970s and 80s) has now become the domain of the immigrants who yearn for the status and money they lacked growing up. Ask any banker these days about the resume submissions they get for associate positions from b-school, and the overwhelming majority are from Asia (namely, average middle class kids from India and China). The son of an Indian oil baron, or the daughter of a California biotech exec doesn't have to work 100+ hours a week to feel rich.

And watboy does have a point. Investment banking is a culture of self-indulgence, because frankly the work sucks. You make tons of money, but you kill yourself for it by working dog hours doing crap work. So to atone for having sold yourself out, you go out and splurge. It's a natural human instinct.

Oh, but there's also a segment that goes in with the *hope* of getting into an even sexier job like Private Equity (with capital letters) or some uber-secret Hedge Fund (run by some Robert Wagner lookalike with an eyepatch). Problem is, the org structure of these firms is an hourglass - there's partners and junior folks, and nothing in between. Most of the partners are white males. And the junior folks are a hodgepodge of overachieving middle-class minorities/whites, and upper crust whites with family connections. Who do you think has the inside track into a partner position? The surrogate sons/daughters of the partners, or the "hired help"? In the ambiguous and clubby world of a partnership, folks like to nurture those in their own image. It's not always the case, but you'd be naive to think that this very natural human instinct of self-selecting those similar to you doesn't exist.

The thing is, if the money in investment banking didn't come with such a high cost or tradeoffs, the vast majority of MBAs would be clamoring for those jobs. But the reality is, the majority don't - only 20 - 33% of any MBA class go into it. The rest just don't feel it's worth it. And they have damn good reasons for that.

And speaking of financial prisons. The only way to truly be financially stable or even independent is to live within your means. It's a simple concept that is so hard to live by. But to those who can, it's a far more stress-free life. The best way to rot from the inside is to see money as a means to buy status. It gets the best of us.

From a practical standpoint, it just comes down to the crowd and friends you keep. If you surround yourself with people who are status- and money-oriented, it's hard to avoid that lifestyle, and it's easy to become neurotically narrow-minded and myopic. And because of the working environment where you're surrounded by the same sets of people with the same kinds of values for 15 hours a day, your only frame of reference is other bankers.

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07 Mar 2007, 06:31

eazyb81 wrote:

While it's always fun to daydream about pulling $300+K/yr in IB, I will warn anyone that you will be miserable at these positions if you don't truly enjoy what you're doing. Taking a job just because it pays well is buying a one-way ticket to an early midlife crisis.

Well! i love numbercrunching and analysis
Why do u say people dont like IB????

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07 Mar 2007, 06:44

venky1979 wrote:

eazyb81 wrote:

While it's always fun to daydream about pulling $300+K/yr in IB, I will warn anyone that you will be miserable at these positions if you don't truly enjoy what you're doing. Taking a job just because it pays well is buying a one-way ticket to an early midlife crisis.

Well! i love numbercrunching and analysisWhy do u say people dont like IB????

First, i'm not saying all people don't like IB - just be prepared for what you're getting into. The long hours aren't a joke - you live at the office. It's hard enough if you love finance, but if you're just doing it for the money, I guarantee you will be miserable.

I don't want to look hypocritical as I am planning to go into IB post-b school, but I have researched the industry and positions extensively and have talked to many friends with experience in IB. I also realize that sometimes IB is a means to an end, and for me I would like to work in IB for a few years to help transition to the buy-side.

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07 Mar 2007, 06:50

venky1979 wrote:

eazyb81 wrote:

While it's always fun to daydream about pulling $300+K/yr in IB, I will warn anyone that you will be miserable at these positions if you don't truly enjoy what you're doing. Taking a job just because it pays well is buying a one-way ticket to an early midlife crisis.

Well! i love numbercrunching and analysisWhy do u say people dont like IB????

You do menial work.
You work 100 hour weeks, REGULARLY.
You get yelled at, a lot, by a lot of different people.

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Of all the people I know who bitch about money (or lack thereof!) the most, it's the folks working in investment banking. And yet, they are amongst the top earners in any MBA alumni group.

But then again, the industry is self-selecting. Those who put a higher premium on money and status tend to be attracted to these jobs in the first place. And those who don't tend to stay away from the industry entirely (and go into consulting, marketing, corporate, tech, etc. or whatever bankers have contempt for). What used to be a job for the upper crust white males (in the 1970s and 80s) has now become the domain of the immigrants who yearn for the status and money they lacked growing up. Ask any banker these days about the resume submissions they get for associate positions from b-school, and the overwhelming majority are from Asia (namely, average middle class kids from India and China). The son of an Indian oil baron, or the daughter of a California biotech exec doesn't have to work 100+ hours a week to feel rich.

And watboy does have a point. Investment banking is a culture of self-indulgence, because frankly the work sucks. You make tons of money, but you kill yourself for it by working dog hours doing crap work. So to atone for having sold yourself out, you go out and splurge. It's a natural human instinct.

Oh, but there's also a segment that goes in with the *hope* of getting into an even sexier job like Private Equity (with capital letters) or some uber-secret Hedge Fund (run by some Robert Wagner lookalike with an eyepatch). Problem is, the org structure of these firms is an hourglass - there's partners and junior folks, and nothing in between. Most of the partners are white males. And the junior folks are a hodgepodge of overachieving middle-class minorities/whites, and upper crust whites with family connections. Who do you think has the inside track into a partner position? The surrogate sons/daughters of the partners, or the "hired help"? In the ambiguous and clubby world of a partnership, folks like to nurture those in their own image. It's not always the case, but you'd be naive to think that this very natural human instinct of self-selecting those similar to you doesn't exist.

The thing is, if the money in investment banking didn't come with such a high cost or tradeoffs, the vast majority of MBAs would be clamoring for those jobs. But the reality is, the majority don't - only 20 - 33% of any MBA class go into it. The rest just don't feel it's worth it. And they have **** good reasons for that.

And speaking of financial prisons. The only way to truly be financially stable or even independent is to live within your means. It's a simple concept that is so hard to live by. But to those who can, it's a far more stress-free life. The best way to rot from the inside is to see money as a means to buy status. It gets the best of us.

From a practical standpoint, it just comes down to the crowd and friends you keep. If you surround yourself with people who are status- and money-oriented, it's hard to avoid that lifestyle, and it's easy to become neurotically narrow-minded and myopic. And because of the working environment where you're surrounded by the same sets of people with the same kinds of values for 15 hours a day, your only frame of reference is other bankers.

People said the same thing of IT but the fact is some people enjoy the work some dont and hence there is always a mix and match of happy and unhappy people in IT and for that matter in any profession. I am not Happy in IT purely for money reasons and want to be in a field that demands numbercrunching, analysis ,some amount of people management and make tonnes of money

I am a workaholic (alright my frequency of posting denies this but its just a temporary phase :lol )

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07 Mar 2007, 06:58

smudge wrote:

what about sales & trading?

How do those jobs compare to IB in terms of salary?

You can make great money in S&T, even more than the M&A side, but you have to actually be a good trader (sounds like common sense). S&T is much more of a meritocracy than traditional IB; to wit, the good traders get fantastic compensation, the bad ones get pushed out of the firm.

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07 Mar 2007, 07:20

3underscore wrote:

There is cash anywhere if you are good, V.

No I mean it depends on economy/industry
and people who join the right industry at the right time make a lot of money even though after some time all industries eventually become poor sources of income Like for example IT

People who joined 5 years before me in my company are sitting on millions of dollars of stock options . once I wish i was 5 years older

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07 Mar 2007, 07:23

venky1979 wrote:

After MBA which is the most $$$ industry that a career switchers can go toWhere he/she can expect $300K+ salaries.

With the exception of Management consulting and IT startup, a career switcher won't be able to get into any of those listed industries. Consultants do not get paid over 200k to start, so you're pretty much left with either S&T or IB.

Pick your poison. I will be a career switcher as well, and I'm leaning towards S&T. I'm all about the sprinting, not long distance running.