Please give your thoughts and how you teach (or were taught) this technique.

Jamie Seabrook

12-14-2005

Seabrook

Re: Checking the Storm

Oops, of course, there is no extension to Checking the Storm. I meant the base.

Thanks!

Jamie Seabrook

12-21-2005

Seabrook

Re: Checking the Storm

C'mon everyone....let's get some analyzation going here.

Jamie Seabrook

12-22-2005

thedan

Re: Checking the Storm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seabrook

C'mon everyone....let's get some analyzation going here.

OK. I've allways done the opening parry and block with the idea that they won't connect. I don't solidify the block unless in practice with a partner it does make contact. But the move to 3:00 is the primary defense, and should take you to a zone of safety.

If I do connect, I have an alternate method I like to try. Instead of the block, frictionally slide down the arm and grab his wrist with your left. Anchor the elbow to pull him slightly diagonally downward to unballance and ground him, weighting his front leg. Follow with your kicks- the second will be devastating with his weight on his right knee.

If you miss the grab, just continue running the technique.

There is obviously an opportunity to arm bar if you get his wrist. But I like to stay with the base technique here.

12-22-2005

Seabrook

Re: Checking the Storm

Okay, so here are two questions:

(1) how many of you teach Checking the Storm with a grab to the opponent's arms before delivering the left front kick?

(2) Why is the technique called "Checking" the Storm?

Jamie Seabrook

12-22-2005

KenpoChanger

Re: Checking the Storm

No big deal, But Iv'e always been taught that the parries were activated checks To insure the club continues a downward trajectory and not veer into you. We keep hitting until the guy falls down so if a student isn't sucessfull on the kicks for some reason, they are not to stop until they figure out something that is. The burden of realistic reaction is on the body, and they learn to die properly once they are faced with a series of blows after the base tech. Obviously close supervision is required when it gets unrealistic, too violent, or counter to the base.
Sean

12-22-2005

thedan

Re: Checking the Storm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seabrook

Okay, so here are two questions:
(1) how many of you teach Checking the Storm with a grab to the opponent's arms before delivering the left front kick?
(2) Why is the technique called "Checking" the Storm?

1. Actually, I wasn't taught that way. A few of us just worked it out in practice, formulation phase. Also, I should clarify that in order to arm bar, you have to wrist lock and step out first.

2. It is called Checking the Storm because the defense is to move. The strike is overhead and down, the checks are there in case there's an angular component to the strike, and/or you don't get out of the way in time. I was taught two ways, by different instructors. One solidified the block, the other didn't. I prefer the block as a check, alert but not solid. Doing it as a block instead of a check has a tendency to make me reach for it, which negatively effects ballance and structure. That's my take, interested to hear yours.

12-23-2005

Seabrook

Re: Checking the Storm

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedan

1. Actually, I wasn't taught that way. A few of us just worked it out in practice, formulation phase. Also, I should clarify that in order to arm bar, you have to wrist lock and step out first.

2. It is called Checking the Storm because the defense is to move. The strike is overhead and down, the checks are there in case there's an angular component to the strike, and/or you don't get out of the way in time. I was taught two ways, by different instructors. One solidified the block, the other didn't. I prefer the block as a check, alert but not solid. Doing it as a block instead of a check has a tendency to make me reach for it, which negatively effects ballance and structure. That's my take, interested to hear yours.

Hmm...I would agree with you that Checking the Storm teaches us to get the heck out of the way, but I don't think that's why it's called CHECKING the Storm. Afterall, isn't Evading the Storm teaches us to initially get the heck out of the way as well? Why is one called "Checking" and the other "Evading"?

I teach Checking the Storm by initially stepping to 3 o'clock with a right inward parry and a left extended outward block before setting the attacker up for the front kick to the groin. The block is there for security purposes but if you are fast enough, a quick step to 3 o'clock, and a fast kick to the groin can do the job.

Jamie Seabrook

12-23-2005

thedan

Re: Checking the Storm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seabrook

Hmm...I would agree with you that Checking the Storm teaches us to get the heck out of the way, but I don't think that's why it's called CHECKING the Storm. Afterall, isn't Evading the Storm teaches us to initially get the heck out of the way as well? Why is one called "Checking" and the other "Evading"? ... The block is there for security purposes but if you are fast enough, a quick step to 3 o'clock, and a fast kick to the groin can do the job.

See, this is what happens when I talk to seniot practitioners from organizations that I havn't studied with. They make me think! But, I'll try and bear the pain.

This-"The block is there for security purposes but if you are fast enough, a quick step to 3 o'clock" is why I think it is called "Checking" the Storm. Done correctly, you really could do this with your hands behind your back. The parry and block are there in case something goes differently than you expected (plus to aid ballance and give harmony to your movement). They are primarily checks.

Evading the Storm steps off in the opposite direction, to the side the attack is delivered on. Your posture and the shedding block are your defense. This block is not a check, it must connect, and is a major move which requires power. This is found in the structure of the stance and block. I generally envision useing this against an overhead delivered in a bit of roundhouse manner- just a little more diagonal component and a little more time to see it comeing. Both techniques are evasive, but EtS doesn't check, it moves the major part of the body off the line of attack and deflects the attack.

12-23-2005

Rob Broad

Re: Checking the Storm

The extended outward block keeps the attackers arm checked so that he can not swing his weapon another time. That is how I was taught where the name comes from.

12-23-2005

thedan

Re: Checking the Storm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Broad

The extended outward block keeps the attackers arm checked so that he can not swing his weapon another time.

Only if you track it as a sliding positional check, and trap/grab (which I'm sure you do, as that is the technique). But if you were to leave the arm as a block, in place, it would shed the strike and he still could redeploy the weapon. This would be an evasion ... ? Ya think?

EDIT: ok, now that I've read the title of your post, you were talking about CtS, and I was still on EtS. So, with that now established, Checking the Storm checks as it evades, Evading the Storm evades and controls. Gives me the impression that the most important thing is to get out of the way.

12-23-2005

thedan

Re: Checking the Storm

Mr. Seabrook, there is another possibility. In CtS, you do not take complete control of the weapon in the ideal phase of technique. Your control of the opponent could be viewed as a check in this case. In EtS, you take control of both the weapon hand (and with it the weapon) and the opponent. In this case, the term Evading could connote the higher degree of control and evasion.

12-23-2005

KenpoChanger

Re: Checking the Storm

Imagine you are a begginer and a bit slow on the step to three (by the way "evading the storm" you step up in a half diamond... maneuver) You too close to step back; so you get both hands actively stopping and or checking the club attack before the swing gathers speed. Being a bit slow on the foot maneuver increases the checking aspect.
Sean

12-23-2005

pete

Re: Checking the Storm

the double-factor parries in 'Checking' can strike and make him to drop the weapon, if he gets close.

if not, keep your left hand in contact with his wrist to check the weapon hand through the entire technique... can even grab it and pull him into the knife edge kick or into the right backfist.

pete

12-23-2005

Faron Whiteye

Re: Checking the Storm

Thought I'd chime in. Instead of going over possibilities in my head as to what is checked or controlled. I think an interesting way of formulating or what ifs are to pick 10 (number not important) of your students and hand them each a club. Tell each one to do an over head strike (with no one standing in front of them) and study the different deliveries of the swing. I think that you'd be surprised at how many don't swing for the fences. In fact I'd suspect that the majority would stop the swing somewhere near the shoulders. Further I believe that the arc of the swing would favour a downward diagonal path. Leaving the possibilty of the block after the parry to be in position to absorb some of the club arm, or a well executed parry could cause the attacker to become off balanced and be in position for the extended outward block to be a strike.

Just my 2 cents.

Faron

12-23-2005

Rob Broad

Re: Checking the Storm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faron Whiteye

Thought I'd chime in. Instead of going over possibilities in my head as to what is checked or controlled. I think an interesting way of formulating or what ifs are to pick 10 (number not important) of your students and hand them each a club. Tell each one to do an over head strike (with no one standing in front of them) and study the different deliveries of the swing. I think that you'd be surprised at how many don't swing for the fences. In fact I'd suspect that the majority would stop the swing somewhere near the shoulders. Further I believe that the arc of the swing would favour a downward diagonal path. Leaving the possibilty of the block after the parry to be in position to absorb some of the club arm, or a well executed parry could cause the attacker to become off balanced and be in position for the extended outward block to be a strike.

Just my 2 cents.

Faron

Great Idea. I see an experiment in January when thinhgs get back to normal.

12-26-2005

thedan

Re: Checking the Storm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faron Whiteye

... I think an interesting way of formulating or what ifs are to pick 10 (number not important) of your students and hand them each a club. Tell each one to do an over head strike (with no one standing in front of them) and study the different deliveries of the swing. I think that you'd be surprised at how many don't swing for the fences. In fact I'd suspect that the majority would stop the swing somewhere near the shoulders. Further I believe that the arc of the swing would favour a downward diagonal path. Leaving the possibilty of the block after the parry to be in position to absorb some of the club arm, or a well executed parry could cause the attacker to become off balanced and be in position for the extended outward block to be a strike.

You are probably correct. In fact, a trained knife or stick fighter would probably deliver the strike more like a straight punch, snaping the weapon forward at the end. Still an overhead strike if he had the weapon chambered at/above his shoulder. The FMA folks rely a lot on yielding, preferably outside, and the double factored parry to defend this. Looks a lot like a combination of the two techniques: hand movement of Checking the Storm and footwork of Evading the Storm.

12-26-2005

Rob Broad

Re: Checking the Storm

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedan

You are probably correct. In fact, a trained knife or stick fighter would probably deliver the strike more like a straight punch, snaping the weapon forward at the end. Still an overhead strike if he had the weapon chambered at/above his shoulder. The FMA folks rely a lot on yielding, preferably outside, and the double factored parry to defend this. Looks a lot like a combination of the two techniques: hand movement of Checking the Storm and footwork of Evading the Storm.

Interesting observation.

12-26-2005

thedan

Re: Checking the Storm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Broad

Interesting observation.

I used to work out with a couple of FMA groups, and I've observed this phenominum first hand. Gets real interesting- trust me!

12-27-2005

BlackPhoenix

Re: Checking the Storm

CHECKING THE STORM

THE ATTACK

Front-Right Step-Through Over Head Club.

LESSON NOTES

A TOOL designed to ENHANCE INJURY caused upon another is called a WEAPON. The earliest form of WEAPON, which is still used today, is a STICK or CLUB. In CHECKING THE STORM, you will learn how to EVADE a DOWNWARD SWING of a WEAPON directed at the crown of your head.

THE DEFENSE

1a. EVASION:

AGILITY and quick MANEUVERABILITY are essential elements if you are to successfully ESCAPE an attack with a WEAPON. As the WEAPON DESCENDS, quickly move to the SIDE in the following manner. STEP toward 3:00 with your RIGHT foot and quickly SLIDE your LEFT foot in the same DIRECTION ending with your LEFT foot resting on the BALL of the foot... Into a Right 45 Degree Cat Stance.

1b. JUST IN CASE:

As your feet carry you SAFELY to the SIDE, PREVENT any INJURY by SAFELY guiding the WEAPON to the SIDE. Use your RIGHT hand to follow the MOTION of the WEAPON arm. This is known as a Right Inward Parry. In a continuing ACTION, use your LEFT arm to SHIELD against any possible FOLLOW UP or ACCIDENTAL MOTION by utilizing a Left Outward Extended Block or Check ( Grab The Wrist If Possible ). As your LEFT arm ends its MOTION, your RIGHT hand should cover.

2a. LONG RANGE ATTACK:

Once you are clear of DANGER, immediately KICK with your LEFT leg in a manner similar to the KICK utilized in DELAYED SWORD. This is known as a Left Front Snapping Ball Kick. This KICK will PREVENT further ACTION by the attacker by FORCING him to BEND FORWARD at the waist in REACTION to the PAIN produced.

2b. A POWERFUL KICK:

Plant your LEFT foot down but as you do so, TURN your toes toward the LEFT. This will place you in a better POSITION for the next KICK, a SIDEKICK. Once your LEFT foot is down, KICK with your RIGHT foot to the opponent’s knee with the EDGE of your RIGHT foot. This is known as a Right Snapping Side Knife Edge Kick.

3a. THE FINAL BLOW:

As your RIGHT foot PLANTS down from the SIDEKICK, STRIKE with the BACK of the KNUCKLES of your RIGHT hand to the opponent’s RIGHT rib cage ( Or Temple Based Upon Target Availability ).

SUGGESTIONS FOR STUDY

1. What would you do if the DOWNWARD STRIKE was CONVERTED to an INWARD- HORIZONTAL MOTION after it misses? 2. KICK immediately once you SIDE-STEP. Your LEFT leg should never STOP. 3. Be mindful of the RANGE of the WEAPON. Experiment to find the MINIMUM and MAXIMUM RANGE of the TECHNIQUE.