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Where did the "Cyclops is excellent at martial arts" thing come from? I kind of expect all superheroes to be able to deck a guy, but Cyclops always receives random (to my mind) mentions whenever someone makes a list of "Best hand to hand combatants in the 616". Why would a guy who can shoot you with eye lasers from a hundred yards away be in the same class as the hand-knives guy, blind ninja, or super-kung fu man? Is this a Claremont thing I've forgotten or are comics fans just weird(er than I expect them to be)?

He wouldn’t be near the top of my list but I can see him easily handling the average guy. Very good fighters even. I can imagine him putting a lot of hours in the danger room and that’s why people see him that way.

And if you think about it his powers make him a unique fighter. Wolverine is essentially just a guy with knives, Shang Chi is a kung fu master above all other but Cyclops could train against that. Cyclops can shoot eye beams whenever he wants, they can’t really train against that.

I’ve just talked myself into believing Scott can kick all their asses.

It has always been my understanding that the X-Men not only trained themselves to control their abilities but also to defend themselves as well. There is an entire world out there that unfairly fears and hates them for how they were born, it makes sense to me that Xavier would want his students to prepare for the event that somebody figured out a way to take their abilities away. Since Cyclops was Xavier's first student, he has been training almost all his life and then as an adult, he became the teacher. Following that logic, I've never had to question Cyclops ability as a hand to hand combatant.

Grayson wrote:It has always been my understanding that the X-Men not only trained themselves to control their abilities but also to defend themselves as well. There is an entire world out there that unfairly fears and hates them for how they were born, it makes sense to me that Xavier would want his students to prepare for the event that somebody figured out a way to take their abilities away. Since Cyclops was Xavier's first student, he has been training almost all his life and then as an adult, he became the teacher. Following that logic, I've never had to question Cyclops ability as a hand to hand combatant.

Yeah, but you could say that about any member of the X-Men, which is about two hundred people or something and yet people seem to regard Cyclops as being particularly good for no clear reason.

Honestly, I think it probably comes from the Capcom fighting games.

"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all."

PDH wrote:Yeah, but you could say that about any member of the X-Men, which is about two hundred people or something and yet people seem to regard Cyclops as being particularly good for no clear reason.

But nobody regards Ice-Man or Angel as martial arts experts. I mean, yeah, I'm sure they can handle themselves but they're not Shang-Chi, you know?

"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all."

PDH wrote:Yeah, but you could say that about any member of the X-Men, which is about two hundred people or something and yet people seem to regard Cyclops as being particularly good for no clear reason.

Honestly, I think it probably comes from the Capcom fighting games.

I don't know, out of all of the X-Men, Cyclops has always seemed like one of the most disciplined. While the rest of the students are probably learning the same things, I feel that Cyclops is the most serious about learning and then applying it in the field.

Punchy wrote:Maybe because he's been an X-Man the longest.

That's another good point. The X-Men don't come more experienced than Cyclops...except for Wolverine and he's practically immortal, so that's cheating.

Punchy wrote:Iceman is too goofy (and his powers are too strong) to bother with martial arts, and Angel is too busy being possessed and turned evil all the time.

And Jean Grey? Or Beast? Or Havok? Or Polaris? Or the Mimic? Or any of the other three hundred X-Men who have been at it almost as long?

There's absolutely no reason to think that Cyclops should be ranked among the best hand-to-hand fighters of the Marvel Universe beyond the general reasons that would apply to nearly any superhero with his experience, of which there are hundreds if not thousands. Yet when people talk about the best hand-to-hand guys they always bring him up alongside people like Daredevil and Iron Fist. At some point he got this reputation and it's kind of strange.

"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all."

PDH wrote:And Jean Grey? Or Beast? Or Havok? Or Polaris? Or the Mimic? Or any of the other three hundred X-Men who have been at it almost as long?

There's absolutely no reason to think that Cyclops should be ranked among the best hand-to-hand fighters of the Marvel Universe beyond the general reasons that would apply to nearly any superhero with his experience, of which there are hundreds if not thousands. Yet when people talk about the best hand-to-hand guys they always bring him up alongside people like Daredevil and Iron Fist. At some point he got this reputation and it's kind of strange.

Scott is obsessive though, it’s not farfetched that he’d spend more time training.

misac wrote:Scott is obsessive though, it’s not farfetched that he’d spend more time training.

Lots of people are obsessive. J. Jonah Jameson is obsessive but nobody thinks he could beat up Elektra. 'It's not far fetched' is not a reason to think of it in the first place. It wouldn't be far-fetched if someone told me that Reed Richards is the best martial artist of all time. Why not? I could easily think up reasons why that would make sense. I could do the same for any number of characters. But nobody does. For some reason, Cyclops is seen as this particularly good fighter. I just want to know why that is.

With Wolverine, for instance, there's all this backstory with ninjas and whatnot establishing that he's really good at this. With Iron Fist that's his whole deal. There are tons of Daredevil stories that back up his martial arts prowess; Shang-Chi is notorious for being good at martial arts; it's obvious enough why Taskmaster is ranked among these people and there are plenty of stories in which Bullseye's fighting ability is made infamous.

Why Cyclops, though? Where did that come from?

Last edited by PDH on Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all."