PAGG Stack – Straightforward Explanation

This question has come up a lot lately, so I want to explain the PAGG stack – what is it, how does it work, why take it, where to buy it, when to take it and is it necessary?

As someone who is very familiar with a range of supplements, nutrition, herbs, vitamins and all things in between, over the last 7 years I have taken different things for different desired outcomes, including green tea with a tablespoon of cocoa and fish oil. I have also worked in the vitamin and natural health industry, so I get the theory behind the tablets. I won’t go deeper into this, but it’s safe to assume that if you read about something in a popular magazine, or website, or if you hear about something from a friend or at the gym, I am pretty familiar with whatever it is and how it works.

The vitamin, health care, and supplement industry isn’t perfect, in my opinion, which is why I remain very skeptical of all sorts of claims pushed out in marketing messages backed by large budgets. It is more than likely that taking Acai Berry alone will not make you look like a supermodel, and taking a protein shake mix after your workouts, will not solely push you into the realms of ripped body builder. In fact, I believe that most extreme results most likely have more cost than benefit for the majority of people. That said, I know there are simple changes (like drinking ice water) than can have some effect, and that if you combine enough of these minor things, you get a major change. What I like about this supplement combination is that Tim Ferriss doesn’t have a stake in a particular product that he is promoting. He uses affiliate links for supplements, but there’s no greater benefit to him in suggesting these supplements, vs many others. He has done a lot of research and testing, and I’m inclined to believe it is definitely worth trying and checking the results after 2 months.

The PAGG stack is described as an optional extra to the slow carb diet, in Tim Ferriss’ The Four Hour Body, and for this reason, we have delayed our start to using it, because we wanted to see if the slow carb diet, by itself, would have an effect. As we’ve mentioned in other posts, it definitely did, in a lot of ways. PAGG is the icing on the cake, or the extra action instead of taking an ice bath, or instead of an extra workout each week. Basically, all of these options can be combined in different amounts to create the desired result. I know some people out there are following every aspect of the Four Hour Body, including ice baths, etc.. but I think for most of us, myself included, we’re looking for the easiest stuff to follow that gets great results. I’m not after 100% results, 90% is just fine with me, if it takes 50% less effort (and I’m not going near an ice bath just yet).

So, on to our questions:

What is it?

PAGG is literally 4 different supplements, taken in a combination at particular doses.

Policosanol, Alpha-Lipoic Acid, Green Tea Extract and Garlic.

How does it work?

Each ingredient has a particular purpose, and working together they do their jobs a little better than one on its own does.

Alpha-lipoic acid works in a number of ways, but the simplest explanation for it’s inclusion is that it pulls more of the carbohydrate energy you eat, and delivers it to muscles, or to your liver, rather than sending that energy to increase the size of fat cells. This is good for the weight-conscious, and for those who are working their muscles.

Green Tea Flavanols have been shown in humans to inhibit the storage of carbohydrates in fat cells, much like Alpha-lipoic acid, as well as encouraging fat cell death (ie fat cells eliminating themselves because they are not needed). This second point is particular great, as fat cells normally tend to shrink and expand, not die off, which is why many people gain weight easily after losing it.

Garlic extract in an aged form, with high Allicin content, appears to stop or at least make fat regain more difficult, which is very helpful to those changing their body composition.

Policosanol has helped Tim Ferriss and a lot of his ‘guinea pigs’ with extra fat loss, while taking the AGG combination, so it is included.

Why take it?

As described in The Four Hour Body, a change in body composition can occur with a blend of 3 things: exercise, diet, supplements. PAGG falls into the supplements area, and can be included when one feels 100% adherence to diet or exercise may be difficult. Also, it can be included to maximize the benefits of diet and exercise regimes, like slow carb and Occam’s Protocol.

Where to buy it?

This gets a little tricky, because a couple of the supplements (like Policosanol and Green Tea Extract) proved very difficult for us to find, even when we scoured a range of large-name drug marts, pharmacies and vitamin shelves in large department stores. So, we went online and found an all-in-one tablet. They split out the Policosanol, because it’s only taken at night, but the other 3 are in one tablet, at the exact dose recommended in the book. This makes things a lot more straightforward, and in fact comparing to buying each item separately, it works out cheaper over a couple of months, and even cheaper because there’s 2 of us. They also added in the B vitamins you need when you’re taking it. Click here to check out the PAGG Stack tablets.

We will mention that this product is the one advertised on this site, and we do get a small commission on this link. It helps us with hosting costs, etc. We want to be totally clear about this – we’re not hiding the fact, and the only reason we have linked through to this is because we believe in this one enough to be taking it ourselves. We were not contacted by the manufacturer, we found it ourselves online while we were searching. Check it out and please decide for yourself.

When to take it?

The PAGG Stack is taken before meals and bed (depending on number of meals) – 4 times a day, 6 days a week, with a 1 week rest break off it every 8 weeks (important). You can see that individual tablets would get a little out of hand, which is why we went with an all in one tablet.

Thanks to Nancy who asked about which day to take off. You definitely want to be taking PAGG on your cheat day, and I think personally on the day after as well. So I’m choosing Mondays, because Saturday is my cheat day.

There has been some information come out that the occasional person finds that even with decaf green tea tablets, they are awake during the night more than usual. This isn’t common but can happen, and if it does, it’s better to not take the before-bed dose.

Is it necessary?

As we mentioned earlier, it’s not vital, but it can be one important element, that when combined with the slow carb diet and some exercise (nothing too extraordinary), can produce better results than with the diet and exercise alone. For us, we tested the diet without exercise and the PAGG first, because we wanted to find out for ourselves and be able to share those results with you. We’re very excited about the PAGG supplements, as we think we will just see even better results, magnified, as these things work together.

Extra notes

The Four Hour Body book (by Tim Ferriss) goes into more detail about how to take it, the science behind how this works, and some contraindications for people with certain health conditions, or taking certain medications. As always, consulting a doctor is a good idea, before you make changes like this. Lots of people are taking this supplement with benefits coming to them, and we believe supplementation can help get the results we are looking for.

Hi Amy, thanks for reading and thanks for your question!
All in all, I would rate my results as very good. I think they would be excellent if I was incorporating regular exercise at this point, however that’s something that starts in about a week for me, due to work and travel commitments. Having a food plan that I can use while being busy, and knowing I’m not gaining weight from it, whilst it gives me good energy is really wonderful, a real ease on my mind.
As far as measurable results, my body fat is down, my overall weight is down, and my overall productivity is up due to mental clarity and focus, and energy. All in all, I’m very glad to be doing this.
You can read about my results in some more detail at this post:Four Hour Body Results – 4 weeks

Hi – another question for you guys. We are supposed to take a day off per week of PAGG/AGG. Is that supposed to be the cheat day? In his book, Tim records taking one dose of AGG and one of PAGG on his cheat day. So is it supposed to be any other day?
thanks for some feedback

Great question and thankyou – I’ve updated the post to reflect this information.

I recommend definitely taking the PAGG on your cheat day, and actually the after as well, for any residual from the food you ate the day before. For me, I’ll be taking Mondays off, with Tuesday as my fallback if for some reason Monday isn’t good.

Really great question. I too am eating 4 meals per day, as I find the 4 hour rhythm gives me a really solid, constant amount of energy. Any longer and I’m starting to feel hungry.

In this case, the recommended dose is still 4x AGG and 1x P per day. So, I’m planning on taking it before breakfast, lunch 1, lunch 2 and bed. Thereby missing a dose before dinner. I figure during the day it’s good to have that working hard for you, especially as it’s more likely that I’ll get to exercise in the evening, which will have a different effect on fat loss, but will also contribute.

Hi guys,
Just checking in. Today is my second cheat day and I have found both days really hard. Psychologically as well as physically. I don’t feel that I deserve to cheat and also disappointing because I don’t have any strong cravings! When I am eating normally – dairy, fruit and whole grains, I crave sweets and bread constantly, so this has been a real change for me. I got a choc croissant and a white choc macadamia nut cookie and threw out most of them. Last week by the time I got to my big event – PIZZA for dinner – I felt too sick to eat it. I am starting with a big SCD breakfast, so not feeling too hungry. Really have to force myself to eat sweets and bread. Believe me, that is a first! Interesting and totally unexpected. I thought I would be gorging myself all day.
Felt kind of stalled last week so I cut out cottage cheese and Diet Coke. Amazing energy and no hunger. Inches melting off. Doing Kiwi workouts Mon and Fri. and Kettle Ball Wed. Another problem I have is feeling guilty about not working out more! I am used to doing P90X work outs 6 days/week. I have a lot more time on my hands.
I also home cooked my black beans which was time consuming but totally worth it with respect to my guts! Much better tolerated than canned.
Thanks for your advice re PAGG/AGG
nancy

Thanks so much for your results, and sharing your cheat day!
I have found that the more cheat days go by, the less cravings I have, and it is more of a forced effort. To be quite honest, my last cheat day almost didn’t happen for a while, when at lunchtime I was ‘craving’ chicken breast with lentils and broccoli! I got through it though, and enjoyed some salty snacks later in the evening, but even still, it’s not the crazy-no-holds-barred action that it was in the first week or two. I am wondering if I am becoming more conservative, or if my tastes have changed.. I can really identify with starting to eat something, only to throw it out! I even found this with chocolate a few weeks back.
Congrats on sticking to it though, it can be tough at times!
I applaud your decision to cut out the Diet Coke, and the cottage cheese (though its my backup still). I really think Diet drinks do a lot of damage, both on a chemical/physical level, and also to your hunger ideas.. tasting something that doesn’t end up in your stomach (‘sugar’) must be confusing to your body. Plus, the caffeine will tend to spike and fall.. resulting in potential cravings, or lack of energy afterwards. I like green tea as it’s a lessened caffeine effect, but I still notice. I can have a few during the day though!
Your workouts sound really good – I’m getting started on Occam’s Protocol this weekend, after having a couple of weeks barely moving, due to work and being away from home. Looking forward to it! Likewise, I’m going to have some problems holding back, having done some P90X previously, as well as been used to 4x cardio + 2x weights sessions a week. I’m going to limit myself 2 intense cardio sessions a week, to keep movement, but to not undo muscle gains made on the weights.
I think as you continue to see really great results, you’ll feel less and less guilty. Remember – guilt is only a created thing in our minds! It can pass.
That’s a great tip on the black beans – we haven’t tried that, but if I get some time over the weekend I think I will. Probably a different flavour too?

Nancy- Thank you for posting this! I’m on week two- I really enjoy how I feel on the diet- but I’m having major guilt issues about working out less. Ridiculous! I haven’t changed much in my 6 day a week workout routine- and I’m thinking of cutting back half next week just to see what happens and my mind is having a hard time with it.

hi Luke,
just finished my third cheat day. Down 8 lbs and 5″ total. No cravings, but forced myself to eat blueberries and raspberries with oatmeal, some w.w. bread with butter, chocolate and pizza. I have been taking PAGG/AGG all along (separately) but not the Green tea extract at bedtime. I just ordered the PAGG stack from Pareto, but I am worried that their supplement hasn’t got that option. I am really sensitive to caffeine and don’t drink it ever. Wondering if you have had any problem sleeping with this product or any feedback from others?
Overall, a pretty interesting, painless and successful way to lose fat.

Great to hear your results! Thanks so much for sharing them. I totally understand what it feels like to not have the cravings, but feel the need to eat something different, because it is cheat day!
I appreciate your concerns with the green tea extract – neither of us have noticed any problems with the bed time dose, and there’s some good write-ups online that suggests perhaps people’s reports about bedtime problems was due to using un-decaffeinated green tea extract purchased separately. Of course, everyone if different, so if you do have any problems then consider excluding the before-bed dose and just taking the policosanol.
Also consider taking a calcium/magnesium supplement before bed. I am sleeping deeper and more restful since including this, and it helps with any muscle cramps, and maintaining electrolyte levels (if you include potassium in your diet you’re covering all bases).
You’re right about the program overall – it’s an adventure, and it’s definitely not a ‘not pain no gain’ style!

Hi all,
I am in the UK so getting hold of a PAGG stack has been tricky. I have now just gone for the separate components. With regard to the dosage Tim gives in the book; is that for the whole day or for each individual taking time?

Hi Ross, thanks for your comment.
With regards to dosage, my go-to to double check is Pareto Nutrition’s website where they include the specific numbers on their PAGG page.
I take each dosage 15-30 mins before a meal – and I have 4 meals /day, with 4 hours between each one. So that means 4 doses of AGG at 7.30am, 11.30am, 3.30pm, 7.30pm, and then the ‘P’ at around 11pm when I head to bed.
All the best with it!

Some great stuff on your blog, thanks for sharing. I have a question about the PAGG stack. I have been on the slow carb for about a month with PAGG for the last two weeks, results have been pretty amazing, 10 lbs down and almost 8 total inches, lots of lean mass increase. The question is about body odor and PAGG. It seems like the garlic could be the culprit. Any others with this problem? Can I reduce or cut out the garlic? I just can’t live with being a stinky guy. Thanks.

Hey CP, interesting question!
I’m really excited for your progress! That’s really great. You must look totally different!
I’m not sure if you’re taking an all in one PAGG, or separate tablets, but I would check if the garlic is aged – I’ve heard that the aged garlic has less odour. We’re taking an all in one tablet and certainly haven’t noticed any body odour, or even a hint of garlic when burping, etc. Double check your garlic, and perhaps think about switching it up as a test.

Just to make a note – there was a comment left by someone promoting a company’s PAGG supplement. It was removed because we don’t allow any commercial promotion on our blog.
There were comments made about the cost of two competing companies – I recommend people check their total cost over a number of months (as most people are taking PAGG for 2 or 3 months), as the cost is very close. Also, consider capsules vs tablets – tablets do not get absorbed as well as what’s in a gelatin capsule, so the dosage may not be as effective.

im currently on it.. thoug im no quite sure the dosis are as high as he recomends… all those pills are hard to swallow..
so ive been downing green the, garlic and r-ala (not a-ala) (as its more pure) 3 pills 4 times a day( policosnol just arived with the post) plus my fish oil pills , vitamin c,s and d,s.. and a multi vitamin/mineral pill…

fell like a junkie in the mornings

anyway. my question is after reading youre site info is: why a rest day from the supplement every week? and why a month of??

Thanks for your comment. That sure is a large dose of tablets in the morning!! Credit to you for knocking them all back, and keep the green tea, r-ala and garlic all going throughout the day!

According to Tim’s research, which he mentions in the book, there are quite a lot of affects from the PAGG stack, and it’s good to give the body a break from these each week, and then a cycle break each 8 weeks. An example is electrolyte changes, which is why it’s suggested that magnesium and potassium are attended to (a cal-mag supplement at night, and an avocado do the trick).

I am about to order the PAGG that you recommend, but have one question: “Should I still take PAGG if I am trying to gain muscle size and want to gain size and get ripped as fast as possible for the summer? Should I wait to do PAGG till I get the desired weight of my bulking up phase? (I currently weight 144, up 10lbs in one month and still have the same body fat %)”

Taking the PAGG definitely didn’t slow down my muscle growth, but not eating enough calories did. If you’re really keen to get ripped as fast as possible, then check out http://www.leangains.com and look at Intermittent Fasting. There’s more science to it, and more details, than 4HB, but the results look great. Muscle growth and fat loss are possible on that protocol.
Alternatively, keep on the PAGG as you follow a workout like Occam’s Protocol, and eat close to your calorie requirement every day, with a 50% calorie day once per week. Check results after 4 weeks and fine-tune if need be. Remember as you grow, you need more calories.

Congratulations on your great progress so far.. that’s really fantastic. Have you noticed a change in your measurements too? I’d imagine so!!

PAGG definitely helps fat loss progress, though if there’s other factors at work that are making you plateau, it might not address those.

Are there any signs in particular that make you think you are plateauing? Sometimes with a great result under our belt, we start to feel less ‘pain’ for continuing. I only mention this because I know a few times I have been at particular points with my weight, or fitness, where I have said enough is enough, and I have started and committed to a program to really improve the situation. What has been the case in the past for me has been that after getting through perhaps 6 or 8 weeks or training and eating, I find that things aren’t that bad anymore, and I start getting into a comfort zone, which means the really dramatic results, though just around the corner, don’t seem as appealing or necessary anymore. I’ve achieved perhaps 75% of my goal, so its hard to keep the foot on the pedal.

If you think that your body is starting to get a little too familiar with the routine or the food, I would suggest really switching things up for a week. Try changing some recipes, and if you don’t already, incorporate some resistance training, or something to get your heart racing, a few times that week.

If you’re plateauing due to lifestyle factors such as sleep, or stress (a very common factor), then its possible correcting these, and getting on the PAGG will bring really great results.

Hi Luke. Thanks for all of your commentary about the stack. One question for you:

I’m a female with a long history of dieting (so, of course, my metabolism is shot). I’ve been on 4HB for about 6 weeks without losing anything. This is to be expected, according to Ferriss, so I’m not freaking out, but I also started the PAGG stack today, to see if that might jumpstart my metabolic processes. In your experience and research, do you think that those of us with really sluggish weight loss can really be helped by PAGG, or should I also be looking to do something else?

Hey Isara, thanks for your question. I’m sure lots of people are in the same boat.

I think, for someone in your position there are a couple of things that are important. Firstly, forget about the past and however you got to where you are. Secondly, the body is incredibly resilient, and it’s pop-media that’s made us think we’re permanently damaging our metabolism with fad diets. What’s more true is that we burn away muscle mass with these diets, and that makes losing fat more difficult.
So on to what I recommend – get involved in muscle-building activities – either simple ones like kettlebells and the exercises like flying dog, myotatic crunch and cat vomit, or go for a simple weights training program like Occam’s Protocol. Either one will build back lost muscle mass, and this has so many healthy benefits I can’t list them all here. One is fat loss, and body recomposition – adding muscle while losing fat. In this process, remember the scales may not change a lot.
The other important component is sticking with one nutritional approach, like slow carb, for a number of months. Your body wants the same thing – it wants to ‘habituate’ to something regular. Eating slow carb gives you a solid foundation to build muscle and lose fat. Supplements by themselves can’t do this.
Then, if you’re looking for faster results, PAGG might help you lose more fat, as it acts in a number of ways to reduce any fat regain, and speed up using fat as energy.

Luke, in all of my years of trying various diets, this is the single-most effective piece of advice anyone’s ever given me. Thank you.

I think that there’s something about slow carb (maybe it’s just Tim’s way of writing, too) that lends itself well to making it less about personal failure – it’s an experiment, that has a longer shelf life than a lot of the “quick start” things out there. So it’s a lot easier to take ones’ time with it and not think of lack of results equaling lack of willpower or some other personal failing.

That being said, about 2 months into 4HB and about 4 days following the PAGG stack, my scale finally budged downward. Hooray! I do need to add in some kettleballs (or, y’know, use that other part of the gym…). And “cat vomit?” Did I miss that part of the book?

Isara, you’re very welcome.
You’re right that there’s no ‘failure’ involved when it comes to making personal changes to diet and exercise.
Willpower should have very little to do with success in health, weight and fitness – changing one’s environment is the easiest way to achieve results, and its unfortunate that the majority of the medical fraternity has bought into the ‘fat = lazy’ way of thinking. It’s just not true. And people need not feel bad about being overweight – it doesn’t mean you’re lazy or a failure. It means you haven’t been told the information about your body that you need to know to maintain a healthy weight.
I’m glad to hear you’ve got results! And good for you, keeping it up. Follow the slow carb diet, you’re sure to find a healthier weight level, and if you get a check up with your doctor after a few months, you should find very positive results there too.
A few kettlebells can be a very good thing! And the Cat Vomit is in the 6 minute abs section – do this, with the Myotatic crunches for a complete ab workout.

In theory, yes, taking the PAGG stack on another diet that’s aimed at fat loss may improve fat loss results, however this hasn’t been tested, and I’m not an expert on other diet systems. I’d be interested to hear your results though!

Hey Kat,
Sounds like a decent local option. Always try to get dosages that are as close as possible to what’s recommended in the book – if the levels are very different, the results may not be the same. I hope it works well for you!
Cheers,
Luke

It depends a bit of your body and how it responds. Ideally too, you will have a goal that is not weight-based, as weight is not a good reflection of anything to do with looks or health. You could have a lot of muscle and not much fat, or not much muscle and lots of fat, and weight the same, so try to set some goals like a certain size of clothing, or feeling a certain way.
In 30 days, if you follow the program using PAGG, and eating slow carb, then you can lose a good amount of fat, and feel a lot different. Check out our guide on Getting Started Losing Fat – http://www.fourhourbodycouple.com/guides/get-started-losing-fat/

I’m curious if the ALA because of the way it works is particularly taxing on the liver. I’m taking Accutane and have been told that it itself is hard enough on the liver and I should stay away from things that make it work even harder. Any thoughts there?

That’s a great question. I think in general there aren’t any contraindications for ALA, however, we all want to make sure that we are individually caring for our bodies the best that we can. For this reason, I would consult your prescribing doctor and consider whether ALA is a good option for you. You might also like to do some extra research online prior to consulting, so that you have a very informed position.

Hi Luke, Fantastic site you have here!! Everything has become very clear to me, thank you!!
I would like your opinion about how addictive PAGG is. I mean not in a literal way but more fear that when I stop taking it I will regain the weight that I had lost…What would be your recommendation? taking pagg two or three months to lose the weight and then when I regain a few kilo’s / notice more fat I would be on it again? Please let me know, I really appreciate it. Xo…PS I really like Pareto: they ship to Europe and it’s all in one pill! Fab!! pps I have 10/15 kg to lose, 3 dress sizes, and especially stubborn fat. Would you recommend the diet only? or in combi with Pagg? When you were not using PAgg on your off days did you still get good results? Thanks again!!

Hi Gerogi,
Thanks for your questions. In general, I don’t think PAGG is addictive – I know what you mean about wanting to go back to it if you gain weight. I think though that a fundamental important thing to remember is that it’s not inevitable for you to gain weight again, though it may seem like it. A lot of what’s published in the media is written under the assumption that everyone is bound to gain bodyfat, continuously, and so we’re constantly fighting a war of sorts, against this. This couldn’t be further from the truth. If you eat good food once you’ve lost the weight, then there’s not a reason for you to gain. As you get older, or your activity patterns change, you can adjust your eating accordingly, and again, not gain weight.
So with this in mind, the key question is, what do you eat to maintain, once you’ve lost weiht with slow carb? I recommend a hybrid of slow carb and Low GI. In general, this can deliver a wider variety of nutrients and food choices, while still keeping blood sugar very even. The question of how to maintain is an important one and isn’t really covered in the book. That fact was the inspiration for Module 6 of my video course, which covers this topic in detail. If you’d like more info on that course, you can check it out at http://www.completebodyfatcontrol.com

To answer your question about your goals – I believe using PAGG will help you achieve them quicker, but you could get good results with good eating and some exercise. The PAGG will likely just speed up the results. When I used PAGG, and didn’t use PAGG, I still got results, just at different rates.

ok, VERY confused/disheartened by #4hb so far. In the past, I’ve only had success with cutting carbs nearly totally, and felt that #4hb simply allowed too many (beans, specifically). This was confirmed somewhat because I didn’t see the dramatic fall-off that I read about so much in #4HB. Some progress, but so slow I switched to no carbs after a couple of weeks. So long cheat day.

I haven’t taken the PAGG stuff because I was confused at what each does (though your site alleviated that somewhat) and haven’t done the kettlebells, because let’s face it, most of the book talks about not having to do so. If you have to take a ton of pills of unknown dose/origin and do kettlebells, what you have there is any other diet.

I’m confused as to why you need to take a week off regarding PAGG, and if anybody has had any adverse effects.

Hey thanks for your comment.
So, to start off – slow carb works slowly for some people, and specifically, up to 2 months with some people I’ve coached, but then the weight has come off. It can depend on blood sugar balance and how you body responds to the high fiber carbs. Low carb has a dramatic effect, but also can be hard to stick with, and result in low energy at times.
Ultimately, workouts aren’t necessary, but if no workouts are done, the body will use some muscle tissue for energy, which isn’t a good long term solution. So, working out is advisable to either build or preserve muscle.
As to the PAGG – I prefer not taking a ton of different pills, so use the all in one that is only 4 capsules per day. Their sources are high quality and manufactured to high standards. The week off is an advisory, but is related to changes in hormones. If the body has a continuous supply of an external supplement, sometimes it adjusts and needs to rely on that, resulting in unwanted side effects if a break isn’t taken regularly.
All the best,
Luke

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