My problem is that Suh's fine is based on being a repeat offender, while Clay Mathews gets nothing. So the next time Mathews does something stupid, this incident will not be brought up because obviously the league doesn't think it was a big deal and he is still not a repeat offender as they view Suh. That is BS.

September 13th, 2013, 11:10 am

I.E.

Walk On

Joined: September 11th, 2010, 10:19 pmPosts: 408

Re: Report: Suh facing league discipline for low block again

Wackadoo wrote:

My problem is that Suh's fine is based on being a repeat offender, while Clay Mathews gets nothing. So the next time Mathews does something stupid, this incident will not be brought up because obviously the league doesn't think it was a big deal and he is still not a repeat offender as they view Suh. That is BS.

Clay Matthews - who I can't stand! - hasn't developed a reputation for himself as a bad guy & cheap shot. Suh has. This is what other people (not Lions fans) AND the league think - that is a reality. And the fines and future suspensions are real too ... so what makes more sense - to complain in vain that others don't share your opinion of the Lions, or hope/expect your team to react properly to reality to put your favorite team in a position to win?

What is ridiculous to me, is any thinking that behavior like stomping on heads, kicking a guy in the nuts or cheap-shotting a guy's knees is somehow similar to a horse collar tackle or even a late tackle out of bounds. I won't discuss the specific incidents. Lions fans for the most part seem unable to look at the story objectively - it's like family defending family, and it is kind of embarrassing and impossible to argue with when it happens. We'll just agree to disagree on all that, and we'll eventually see if what happens on the field & sideline supports our individual opinions.

And again - all that is beside the point anyway. You can criticize the league and the league's decisions all you want, and claim that it is hurting its product. Just understand the only place the product is diminished is in your own eyes, and in the eyes of other fans who are OK with the way Schwartz's team (especially Suh) behaves. The league has already made clear that it has made decisions about how it will react to what players do, and where it wants to emphasize rules so its product looks the way it wants. And the product is very clearly not being hurt - that isn't up for debate, is it? No - it's not. So there's no need for this conversation, really.

There is no need for any of the conversations we have on this site other than to speak our minds. Your not a team owner and neither are any of the other people on here, so I don't care what the subject is we have no control over it. If you don't like the view of Lions fans that's fine argue your side with them, but stop telling other people that they should stop commenting on it just because it won't change anything.

Again, Nothing we say on here will change anything. That doesn't mean anyone should stop complaining about it.

P.S. Olinemen and Dlinemen have spent decades giving each other low blows, going for knees, and rolling on ankles in the scrum. It's nothing new, in the heat of the moment these guys do try to hurt each other because when the adrenaline is on there is no doubt they can't see the consequences.

September 13th, 2013, 12:36 pm

Wackadoo

Junior Varsity

Joined: March 26th, 2006, 11:09 amPosts: 165

Re: Report: Suh facing league discipline for low block again

I.E. wrote:

Wackadoo wrote:

My problem is that Suh's fine is based on being a repeat offender, while Clay Mathews gets nothing. So the next time Mathews does something stupid, this incident will not be brought up because obviously the league doesn't think it was a big deal and he is still not a repeat offender as they view Suh. That is BS.

Clay Matthews - who I can't stand! - hasn't developed a reputation for himself as a bad guy & cheap shot. Suh has. This is what other people (not Lions fans) AND the league think - that is a reality. And the fines and future suspensions are real too ... so what makes more sense - to complain in vain that others don't share your opinion of the Lions, or hope/expect your team to react properly to reality to put your favorite team in a position to win?

I'm not blind, Suh has done some stupid stuff and has deserved some of his fines and criticism. However, I am stating the fact that if not for the unnecessary fines for the things he did within the rules (tackling by the hair, pushing down a QB on the run) His rep wouldn't be as bad. Clay Mathews and every other player should be held accountable Every time they break the rules just like Suh is.

September 13th, 2013, 12:52 pm

DJ-B

Rookie Player of the Year

Joined: April 5th, 2007, 5:51 pmPosts: 2320

Re: Report: Suh facing league discipline for low block again

To Not expect our team/players to have to Jump through Extra Hoops, and Play extra Clean (in a dirty game) than other teams do, just to prevent a Biased reality from Impacting us Negatively. Is a balanced and fair disposition of the rules/penalties/fines an unfair expectation?

I'm not arguing the reality of the situation, it is what it is, but to watch poop called with obvious Bias, and to defend it because of a Media/goodell driven agenda, is silly., We can Accept the reality while still pointing out it is bullshit, and that doesnt make us Homers, it just makes us aware of what is happening instead of pretending that it is fair because it "isnt hurting our team" (outside perspective).

September 13th, 2013, 1:06 pm

I.E.

Walk On

Joined: September 11th, 2010, 10:19 pmPosts: 408

Re: Report: Suh facing league discipline for low block again

I understand that twist, DJ-B ... but nobody is asking Suh to play extra clean. They're really asking him to play as clean as everyone else & not stand out negatively (which he continues to do). I personally believe it is even fairly reasonable to expect him to clean it up and overcorrect the other way. IF he did that, an occasional mistake would look like a mistake in context - instead of like a pattern. That's why guys like Matthews will get smaller fines, and Suh gets increasingly large (biased) ones. Playing hard & clean is feasible.

The Bias is what the league is using to try to get their way - it wouldn't be there if there wasn't a reason to start being biased in the first place. And like all punishments, you can expect it to escalate with ongoing defiance. The larger punishment is based on history as well as the current infraction.

And make no mistake - I am a fan of the Lions. I've lived here for 17 years, and all my friends here are Lions fans. I support them & the team. There is only one team that I don't want them to beat. But I don't like Suh's behavior, and I absolutely do not like Schwartz. I believe the instant Schwartz leaves, the team gets better.

September 13th, 2013, 3:28 pm

regularjoe12

Off. Coordinator – Joe Lombardi

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 3955Location: Davison Mi

Re: Report: Suh facing league discipline for low block again

I.E. wrote:

I understand that twist, DJ-B ... but nobody is asking Suh to play extra clean. They're really asking him to play as clean as everyone else & not stand out negatively (which he continues to do). I personally believe it is even fairly reasonable to expect him to clean it up and overcorrect the other way. IF he did that, an occasional mistake would look like a mistake in context - instead of like a pattern. That's why guys like Matthews will get smaller fines, and Suh gets increasingly large (biased) ones. Playing hard & clean is feasible.

The Bias is what the league is using to try to get their way - it wouldn't be there if there wasn't a reason to start being biased in the first place. And like all punishments, you can expect it to escalate with ongoing defiance. The larger punishment is based on history as well as the current infraction.

And make no mistake - I am a fan of the Lions. I've lived here for 17 years, and all my friends here are Lions fans. I support them & the team. There is only one team that I don't want them to beat. But I don't like Suh's behavior, and I absolutely do not like Schwartz. I believe the instant Schwartz leaves, the team gets better.

but here is the thing....Suh only had 1 personal foul last year. ONE. isnt that cleaning up his act? Lets not act like this was another stomp incodent! what he did was stupid, dont get me wrong, but even the commentators durring the game didnt think this was a malicious attack. How clean does he have to play in order to be treated like a regular player? he WAS a total jerkhole his first 2 years here. i dont think anyone would dispute that. the problem is, he has done a signifacant job of cleaning up his play...but no one notices, and more importantly, he's being fined even worse than before. you can talk about his rep all you want...and he's earned that. but the reality is, he's not playing like a total meathead anymore and a fine of this size was uncalled for.

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

September 13th, 2013, 4:04 pm

The Legend

Off. Coordinator – Joe Lombardi

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 4026Location: WSU

Re: Report: Suh facing league discipline for low block again

regularjoe12 wrote:

I.E. wrote:

I understand that twist, DJ-B ... but nobody is asking Suh to play extra clean. They're really asking him to play as clean as everyone else & not stand out negatively (which he continues to do). I personally believe it is even fairly reasonable to expect him to clean it up and overcorrect the other way. IF he did that, an occasional mistake would look like a mistake in context - instead of like a pattern. That's why guys like Matthews will get smaller fines, and Suh gets increasingly large (biased) ones. Playing hard & clean is feasible.

The Bias is what the league is using to try to get their way - it wouldn't be there if there wasn't a reason to start being biased in the first place. And like all punishments, you can expect it to escalate with ongoing defiance. The larger punishment is based on history as well as the current infraction.

And make no mistake - I am a fan of the Lions. I've lived here for 17 years, and all my friends here are Lions fans. I support them & the team. There is only one team that I don't want them to beat. But I don't like Suh's behavior, and I absolutely do not like Schwartz. I believe the instant Schwartz leaves, the team gets better.

but here is the thing....Suh only had 1 personal foul last year. ONE. isnt that cleaning up his act? Lets not act like this was another stomp incodent! what he did was stupid, dont get me wrong, but even the commentators durring the game didnt think this was a malicious attack. How clean does he have to play in order to be treated like a regular player? he WAS a total jerkhole his first 2 years here. i dont think anyone would dispute that. the problem is, he has done a signifacant job of cleaning up his play...but no one notices, and more importantly, he's being fined even worse than before. you can talk about his rep all you want...and he's earned that. but the reality is, he's not playing like a total meathead anymore and a fine of this size was uncalled for.

i think he had at least 2 in the preseason this year and yes he does still play like a total meathead

so what makes more sense - to complain in vain that others don't share your opinion of the Lions

This is an internet BB - anything I say on here with regards to the NFL, the Lions, their players etc is in vain!

Doesn't mean we can't discuss it, and doesn't mean the fairness of the situation isn't a valid topic for discussion.

I agree with you that the Lions need to play in accordance with the reality of the situation. Doesn't mean I think that reality is fair, or that I shouldn't express that.

September 14th, 2013, 9:09 am

njroar

Player of the Year - Offense

Joined: September 25th, 2007, 3:20 amPosts: 2833

Re: Report: Suh facing league discipline for low block again

There were 42 players with more personal fouls than Suh since 2011. Just let that sink in. There's no need to "twist" the bias. It's a fact that he's being unfairly singled out.

September 14th, 2013, 9:32 am

The Legend

Off. Coordinator – Joe Lombardi

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 4026Location: WSU

Re: Report: Suh facing league discipline for low block again

njroar wrote:

There were 42 players with more personal fouls than Suh since 2011. Just let that sink in. There's no need to "twist" the bias. It's a fact that he's being unfairly singled out.

Suh is being targeted, I completely agree with that but when he stomped Evan Dietrich-Smith and then basically denied it he was seen as both a big a-hole and delusional. If you watch him play you will see him take 4-5 cheap shots per game on offensive lineman, pulling them down when the ballcarrier is down but before the whistle has blown. Even in plays when he gets cleanly blocked and is away from the play he ll sometimes just do whatever it takes to throw the OL to the ground rather than hustle to the play. I get nervous every time he pressures a QB but doesnt get there in time to make a legal hit bc I really dont trust his ability to control himself from making a penalty. This most recent play, while everyone says he was in front of Sullivan, really he was not squarely in front of him but rather was chasing him from the side and cut him off as he was turning a corner. He violated both the peelback block penalty bc he was hitting from the side and also hitting at the thigh/knee area. It was also very close to being a clip and probably would have been called as one if these new rules werent in place. Doesnt matter what his aiming point was, anyone taught to cut knees on the OL knows that your aiming point is always the waist bc if you aim at the knees you are likely to miss and fall at someone's feet and miss the block. Now where the heck $100,000 comes in - I have no idea other than the NFL has taken the stance that they will appease the idiots. The casual fans, the ones with little knowledge that dont look at the game analytically and see Suh always being the subject of the talking heads of each network calling him a dirty player. This play to me was a penalty not a dirty play but Suh IS a dirty player and the league has decided that Suh will not get the benefit of the doubt in any situation - even when his foot hits Matt Schaub while upside down. We, as Lions fans are going to have to get used to it.

I also believe that Suh's off field issues are not helping him in any way - speeding tickets, accidents where he intimidates his passengers or another driver whose car he damaged, pointing a gun at a cable guy. No matter if they are exaggerations - this guy is not a model citizen and doesnt react like a normal adult would in circumstances of frustration. I really wouldnt be surprised if he gets arrested, seriously injures somebody off the field, or dies doing something stupid.

September 14th, 2013, 1:50 pm

Hystrix

National Champion

Joined: August 13th, 2006, 11:04 pmPosts: 882Location: Washington, DC

Re: Report: Suh facing league discipline for low block again

njroar wrote:

There were 42 players with more personal fouls than Suh since 2011. Just let that sink in. There's no need to "twist" the bias. It's a fact that he's being unfairly singled out.

This.

Plus, even if Suh is the dirtiest player in NFL history (which he isn't, heck, if he were playing 15 years ago, no one would think anything of it), $100K fine for a block!? Rediculous. Goodell is ruining this leauge. If anyone needs to be curtailed....

September 14th, 2013, 1:53 pm

Wackadoo

Junior Varsity

Joined: March 26th, 2006, 11:09 amPosts: 165

Re: Report: Suh facing league discipline for low block again

Hystrix wrote:

njroar wrote:

There were 42 players with more personal fouls than Suh since 2011. Just let that sink in. There's no need to "twist" the bias. It's a fact that he's being unfairly singled out.

This.

Plus, even if Suh is the dirtiest player in NFL history (which he isn't, heck, if he were playing 15 years ago, no one would think anything of it), $100K fine for a block!? Rediculous. Goodell is ruining this leauge. If anyone needs to be curtailed....

but here is the thing....Suh only had 1 personal foul last year. ONE. isnt that cleaning up his act? Lets not act like this was another stomp incodent! what he did was stupid, dont get me wrong, but even the commentators durring the game didnt think this was a malicious attack. How clean does he have to play in order to be treated like a regular player? he WAS a total jerkhole his first 2 years here. i dont think anyone would dispute that. the problem is, he has done a signifacant job of cleaning up his play...but no one notices, and more importantly, he's being fined even worse than before. you can talk about his rep all you want...and he's earned that. but the reality is, he's not playing like a total meathead anymore and a fine of this size was uncalled for.

Yes he played largely clean lady year. But he had 2 years of not playing clean before that which earned him his dirty reputation. One year doesn't erase two, much less a reputation. Once something/someone has a reputation, whether in sports or life, it takes a long time to change. Just like the Lions have a reputation as a bad team and that wasn't changed after 1 good season. Suh will have to string together multiple clean seasons to change his rep. Just for this season he needs to be mostly clean the test of the year if he doesn't want it to be known as a dirty season.

It may not be fair but that's life.

_________________"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” - Neil deGrasse Tyson

but here is the thing....Suh only had 1 personal foul last year. ONE. isnt that cleaning up his act? Lets not act like this was another stomp incodent! what he did was stupid, dont get me wrong, but even the commentators durring the game didnt think this was a malicious attack. How clean does he have to play in order to be treated like a regular player? he WAS a total jerkhole his first 2 years here. i dont think anyone would dispute that. the problem is, he has done a signifacant job of cleaning up his play...but no one notices, and more importantly, he's being fined even worse than before. you can talk about his rep all you want...and he's earned that. but the reality is, he's not playing like a total meathead anymore and a fine of this size was uncalled for.

Yes he played largely clean lady year. But he had 2 years of not playing clean before that which earned him his dirty reputation. One year doesn't erase two, much less a reputation. Once something/someone has a reputation, whether in sports or life, it takes a long time to change. Just like the Lions have a reputation as a bad team and that wasn't changed after 1 good season. Suh will have to string together multiple clean seasons to change his rep. Just for this season he needs to be mostly clean the test of the year if he doesn't want it to be known as a dirty season.

It may not be fair but that's life.

Him playing clean won't change anything, his rep is locked in. The only two things that will ever have a chance of changing his image in the eyes of the league office is winning and staying out of off field trouble. Rodney Harrison was a dirty player his entire career and it was common knowledge, but he played for a winning franchise with loads of fans and stayed out of trouble off the field. If the Lions consistently win games they will gain band wagoners and the media fan fair the team would get will make Suh a non issue as long as he isn't getting anyone killed in his free time.