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Neither is exclusive in any form.
Spector is a 30th anniversary figure (thus not pushing other figures back) and a brandnew character, to cope with the theme of the 30th anniversary figure line. Illumina is an existing character and therefore may be already slotted in for a regular figure somewhere down the road. This is as far as I understood Scott. She is not only in the cards, she is slotted in the roadmap, somewhere far down the road, but she is in.
Pushing for her, to release her sooner than later would mean pushing back on other figures. Same as if the fanbase would suddenly start asking for... let´s say Gwildor, who might be slotted in for 2013. This same "vocal minority" starts accusing Mattel for not wanting to make Gwildor, even though everybody SHOULD know, that Gwildor, being an "in the cards" character, will come sonner or later. Nevertheless, everybody is asking, then demanding, then trying to force Mattel to release Gwildor sooner than later. Mattel would answer with the very same statements. Releasing Gwildor "now" would mean pushing back all the other figures that are already slotted in. This might include Lodar, Spikor, Evilseed, Darius and Frosta. Woop-dee-doo! Here we have Gwildor, as fans demanded. Lets just wait even longer for other fan-demanded figures then.

So. Let´s PLEASE just wait and see. Illumina will come, I am sure. And as much as I like and want her, I´d say let´s stick to the roadmap Scott created and be patient.

Then he, without prompting, nervously and loudly proclaimed that it wasn't "bad blood" that keeps Illumina from being made.

This absolutely fascinates me that you perceived it that way. I guess it just goes to show that two people can be in the same room hearing the same thing and come away with different views on it. I thought he said it in a "I can't believe I actually have to say this but let me just throw this in and nip it in the bud" sort of way. But hey, you might be right. I like to think of myself as fairly agenda-free, but having been on the other side of this equation myself (though not as a brand manager thank god) I probably give Scott more leeway than others might. So I could totally have the wrong end of the stick.

He consistently, in interviews and panels, brings up issues/topics that are incendiary. It can sound confrontational.

Agreed. There were some comments he made that sort of made me cringe. Not so much that it bothered me personally, I just knew how people here were going to react! The only thing that got to me was setting it up as a choice between Illumina and Ram-Man to get the crowd to yell "Ram-Man!"

I mean, it's an old trick and an effective one and I do think he eventually clarified it to my satisfaction... but the next day on and people are focusing on this false choice he presented versus what he actually ended up saying which was, she's not off the table she's just a lower priority.

Instead, he refers to this entire community (the community that made the start of MOTUC such a huge success, and which continues to support the line, through thick or thin) as a sum total of "50, and some lurkers" (odd... Last week we were "250"). He then tells us to find "5000 unique buyers" who will commit to buying Illumina.

He most assuredly did NOT refer to He-man.org as 50 or some lurkers. If we're annoyed at Scott for playing fast and loose with the facts in order to support a position, let's not fall into the same trap. He was very specifically referring to the people on matty's boards and on specific threads here and elsewhere on the net who have asked for her. I'm a total Illumina supporter, but let's not presume to speak for all of (or even the majority) of the board. I'm sure there are some posters who are sick of hearing about her!

He didn't address the exclusive idea. Con exclusives are usually more fan-specifically desired items...

I like all your ideas for parts re-use. And at first I thought a Power-Con exclusive might be the way to go. But now I'm not so sure. I don't think Power-Con could support something like that on it's own... yet. So trying to do something like that might actually make her take longer to come out. I suppose she might work like the Temple of Darkness Sorceress where she's an exclusive for a whole year.

But, it was actually your follow-up question about why she is such a risk in the context of a sub that got me thinking a sub figure really is the way to go with her. If they could make her a $40 beast and rider sub item, that might be the best way to get her.

I appreciate him being there, but he was in typical defensive mode and it baffles me that he doesn't seem to understand that a strong manager caters to his customer base.

You see though, I think this is the point that he was trying to make. Have you considered that what he is doing IS catering to his base? In Marketing, you KNOW you can't please everyone. This is just something you have to accept from the start. It doesn't matter if you're making toys or blenders or cars... you're not going to be able to cater to everyone. That's why marketers try to break down their markets into more homogenous groups so that they can target them better. Even this is far from a science and fraught with all sorts of problems. But it's a little easier.

Trying to make one line that will appeal to MOTU, POP, Filmation, and New Adventures fans is a monumental task. If you were to make a vend diagram of those groups, there are sure to be overlaps but there will also be some large gaps as well. It's never going to be perfect. And if you go to the Illumina Support thread above, it's been open for nearly two years now (I was the first person to comment!) and it's 13 pages long with a lot of repeat commenters. And Illumina has never ranked high in any of the Idol poll threads either (until now!)

Here's the thing. We all know some weird stuff has been said about Illumina - she's on the table, she's off the table, she's a fan-made character, she's got a complicated back story and so on... it's frustrating. I get it.

But you know what? This weekend he said she was on the table. This weekend he said he liked the design and wanted to see her made. Hub-bub has been created and more and more people are talking about her. I started a thread on TheFwoosh about her and the response seems positive so far. I did the same in the MOTU thread on Sideshow Collector's. She's ranking respectably in the Idol competitions.

My thing is, how about we let all that other stuff go and focus on stuff like the Facebook page and the idea of "Illumina Day" and all of that? To me it just seems like a more constructive route than going down these alleyways of trying to figure out motivations for this or saying people aren't doing their jobs properly or turning it into a contest between character A and character B. Forget about the 5000-people quota. It's a great goal, but I doubt we even need that. Remember, at one point we were never, ever getting Skeletor's swords. If there has ever been a line that has adapted directly to fan-requests, it's this one. So maybe we can keep the fan requesting fun?

Anyway, I'm starting to bore myself so that's the last I'll say about this particular subject unless it's just some additional support for Illumina down the road.

I like Illumina and all, but not for a good while yet. We have bucket-loads of POP females to get through first (seeing as we only seem to get a handful of ladies per year) as well as some MOTU females like Shokoti, Hawk and Kittrina. They're far more important to me.

Mattel have said they can do Illumina- and that she's a cool character. But what if we asked about someone like Hunga the Harpy? Also cool and with stories to her name. If Mattel delivered a similar answer- ie, we don't see enough fan interest- would people stage a similar sort of protest? Probably not.

I don't want Illumina to take the space of someone more deserving. (although I totally accept the comparison to Vikor, Demo-Man and BG Teela- they shouldn't have got a figure each so soon in the first place!).

The line is spaced out. Not everyone deserving is coming out consecutively. Look at the beasts. Did anyone ever see Griffin being made before Stridor and Battlie Lion? Yet everyone is pleased and still looking forward to the other two.

as well as some MOTU females like Shokoti, Hawk and Kittrina. They're far more important to me.

Shokoti, while an awesome design and character, isn't more important than Illumina. Isn't Shokoti dead now? I have to re-watch that.

Kittrina isn't as well. She's a random cat lady, pretty much.

Illumina is a keeper of the secrets of Castle Grayskull. That's HUGE! She also trained Man-At-Arms with Dekker...also huge! Finally...trapped on the EVIL side of the mystic wall, with her cat being her only ally for many years? Pretty epic.

Hell, most of the frequently re-occuring secondary characters (like Buzz-Off, Ram-Man, etc.) don't have story lines that are that grand or important.

Illumina is like the Sorceress...if she were a secret agent who could kick ass in hand-to-hand combat! She's kind of like if Teela became Sorceress and kept quiet about it...and had Glimmers powers...kind of.

For the record, I do want a Shokoti figure. I don't really want a Kittrina though. I LOVE female characters the most (usually), but she never did anything for me as a character or a design. I found her pretty boring, to be honest.

Also, like SCB said. If we get all the A-listers up front, this line will die in a hurry. Illumina and her cat require VERY few new parts and would be perfect for Mattel! Especially when they're coming "over tooling budget."

Take part in Illumina Day! Let people know who she is and help get her in MOTUC.

How many decades have people wanted figures of said Filmation characters? Not even a fraction of those people even know who Illumina is since she well...never quite happened.

Look at the story lines/character development, take off the nostalgia glasses and tell me which character is more important to MOTU.

Illumina even has the redemption factor. She was a very bad girl in the beginning.

Illumina is like...you know how some shows introduce a "new" character, and then do an episode and you see that the "new" character appeared in ALL the important scenes of the last year or two and caused or prevented things from happening? That's how I see Illumina. She's omni-present, but almost never seen.

Last edited by Darkspecter; September 27, 2011 at 03:41am.

Take part in Illumina Day! Let people know who she is and help get her in MOTUC.

Look at the story lines/character development, take off the nostalgia glasses and tell me which character is more important to MOTU.

The ones I saw as a kid on my tv growing up watching cartoons that never got figures are a lot more important to MOTU than a 200x comic concept character that never happened except on a single preview page of a comic book.

You see her as an important character to MOTU because of what they had instore for her when the fact is not many people even know who she is. I could easily live without her. In fact, I'm actually getting sick of hearing about her lately. It's starting to feel like most people want her and keep pushing her just because she's sort of "taboo" to keep pushing for. If she wasn't a MVC creation, people on here wouldnt even care at all. Imagine if Toyguru created her what would people say then? That said, I wish Val and/or Emiliano were allowed to create a new figure for this 30th collection. Afterall, they've done more for the MOTU fandom than ANYONE by keeping it alive for years and years and years with no sign of anything MOTU at all.

(No offense to Emiliano/MVC for creating Illumina of course just my opinion of what I see going on here. I own all the MVC comics.)

The ones I saw as a kid on my tv growing up watching cartoons that never got figures are a lot more important to MOTU than a 200x comic concept character that never happened except on a single preview page of a comic book.

Nostalgia glasses! Come on, I was being 100% serious in my post. Just because a character made it to TV doesn't mean the character is extremely important or anything.

You see her as an important character to MOTU because of what they had instore for her when the fact is not many people even know who she is. I could easily live without her. In fact, I'm actually getting sick of hearing about her lately. It's starting to feel like most people want her and keep pushing her just because she's sort of "taboo" to keep pushing for. If she wasn't a MVC creation, people on here wouldnt even care at all. Imagine if Toyguru created her what would people say then?

It's true not a whole lot of people know who she is, but the same is true for Kittrina, for example (since her name came up). She was in one episode and needed help, but didn't trust He-Man. This isn't meant as an insult, but she's as important as that old woman who spread the rumour about "The Tingler" Blue started up a thread about. They got the same screen time and similar stories. Kittrina would just make a more compelling figure.

The other part...wow! I think you're WAY far off there! I remember when that ad first appeared in the MVC comic and everyone was wondering who she was, talked about how awesome she looked, couldn't wait for issue 4 to find out, etc. The main speculation was that she was a badass warrior who would turn out to be Keldor's mother. We learned she isn't Keldor's mother, just the speculation. When it was learned she would not be featured in the comics, people were crushed.

Do a ginormous amount of people know who she is? No. The ones reading the comics sure did, and she was well received from the teaser image and people were EXCITED about her! This was all before any controversy or politics existed, CM.

Now, it's obvious SOME people just want her because Mattel's kind of being a bully about her, which makes them want her (I've seen 2-3 people post that). That's not the case for the majority though. They genuinely want her figure. I wanted a figure of her the first time I saw that image posted online!

If she was made into a figure, what would I say? I would be over the moon and probably send thank you letters to each of the 4H and Toyguru!

I also really want She-Zar and some other obscure characters. Nobody at Mattel has said ANYTHING about her. I don't even know if they can make her (I asked, but my question hasn't been answered yet). Why do I want her? She has an awesome story, looks wicked cool, has great powers and can transform into a fish! She's not really evil...just...wants to flood Eternia and make it her new home world for her people. She would make an excellent ally or even Queen for Mer-Man though.

EDIT: Also, the reason you're hearing so much about Illumina (and will continue to) is because Toyguru said she requires 5000 people to support her, so it's solely up to fans to educate and drum up support. Every other character just needs a regular support thread (even if they've very obscure). Not sure what makes Illumina so different. If Mattel would at least say that Illumina is in the road map release at some point (even if that's 2017), I think you would hear about her as much as any other character. Except from me, maybe. I've been asking questions to Mattel about Illumina since before it was the "in" thing to do.

Anyway, I like what Shawn Thompson had to say on Facebook about Illumina:

She's not one of my favorite designs, but I'm all for her. This is a toyline that is all-inclusive. Minicomics, concept art, prototypes, one-shot Filmation characters, guys who bring potato salad to picnics, yes even rejected character contest submissions... everyone! I bought the subs for that specific reason: I don't give a crap who Mattel puts in the sub. If someone out there specifically wants a character, then I'll be happy to add him or her to my shelf. Just because I don't talk about her doesn't mean I'm opposed to her.

Last edited by Darkspecter; September 27, 2011 at 04:58am.

Take part in Illumina Day! Let people know who she is and help get her in MOTUC.

Pushing for her, to release her sooner than later would mean pushing back on other figures. Same as if the fanbase would suddenly start asking for... let´s say Gwildor, who might be slotted in for 2013. This same "vocal minority" starts accusing Mattel for not wanting to make Gwildor, even though everybody SHOULD know, that Gwildor, being an "in the cards" character, will come sonner or later. Nevertheless, everybody is asking, then demanding, then trying to force Mattel to release Gwildor sooner than later. Mattel would answer with the very same statements. Releasing Gwildor "now" would mean pushing back all the other figures that are already slotted in. This might include Lodar, Spikor, Evilseed, Darius and Frosta. Woop-dee-doo! Here we have Gwildor, as fans demanded. Lets just wait even longer for other fan-demanded figures then.

But that's not what we're doing (well, maybe those 50 or so people are).
I believe most Illumina supporters like myself want her to be a possibility for down the road. It's only been very recently that TG has said that she's a possibility...... and even then she's the only one (so far) that has all these conditions that have publicly been placed in front of her.
Carnivus never had a figure before and appeared for what, 5 seconds of total screen time? And his support thread was not very big, surely less than the "50" same people asking for Illumina. Yet he got made without any public roadblocks thrown in front of him. I love the figure, but I don't remember having to choose between him & Ram Man.

Just because we ask for her doesn't mean we want her now.

So. Let´s PLEASE just wait and see. Illumina will come, I am sure. And as much as I like and want her, I´d say let´s stick to the roadmap Scott created and be patient.[

I couldn't agree more because at least now, she isn't definitely off the table.

About Carnivus: His screentime was in 3 episodes of the 200x cartoon, and he even got to say something
His part in MOTU was more significantly than Illuminas and he was scheduled in the roadmap the same way as everything happens within this roadmap: Without our knowledge.
Seriously, as far as we know, Illumina might be the very last figure in the line (just before Ram-Man ) or the June figure of 2012.

Personally, I am tired of reading these "we demand Illumina" threads. Because if that´s right and these 50+ people only want a chance to get her, then congratulations: We already succeeded in this task several weeks or months ago.
I feel a little embarrassed, to be honest, that so few people seem to understand that "in the cards, just not top priority" doesn´t mean "we will never make her".

Shokoti, while an awesome design and character, isn't more important than Illumina. Isn't Shokoti dead now? I have to re-watch that.

Kittrina isn't as well. She's a random cat lady, pretty much.

Illumina is a keeper of the secrets of Castle Grayskull. That's HUGE! She also trained Man-At-Arms with Dekker...also huge! Finally...trapped on the EVIL side of the mystic wall, with her cat being her only ally for many years? Pretty epic.

That is ****ing ridiculous.

For one thing, point me to ANY official source on blue/cat-girl that doesn't amount to a nameless pin-up. Mattel ***REJECTED*** that pitch, which makes it fanfic. She's equivalent to potato-salad guy (hell, she doesn't even have an official *NAME*!)

In addition, House of Shokoti was viewed by millions of people. MVCMotUv3 #3 was bought by... oh... fewer than 14k in North America. Of which 13k probably never gave a never-realised pinup more than a second thought

Shokoti, while an awesome design and character, isn't more important than Illumina. Isn't Shokoti dead now? I have to re-watch that.

Illumina is a keeper of the secrets of Castle Grayskull. That's HUGE! She also trained Man-At-Arms with Dekker...also huge! Finally...trapped on the EVIL side of the mystic wall, with her cat being her only ally for many years? Pretty epic.

Hell, most of the frequently re-occuring secondary characters (like Buzz-Off, Ram-Man, etc.) don't have story lines that are that grand or important.

Illumina is like the Sorceress...if she were a secret agent who could kick ass in hand-to-hand combat! She's kind of like if Teela became Sorceress and kept quiet about it...and had Glimmers powers...kind of.

Originally Posted by Count Marzo

I'm sorry but that's just crazy-talk.

How many decades have people wanted figures of said Filmation characters? Not even a fraction of those people even know who Illumina is since she well...never quite happened.

I hate to agree with Marzo, but he's right. From their exposure, a MOTU cartoon character is automatically bigger than any MOTU book character, especially since Illumina only appeared in an ad.

Originally Posted by Darkspecter

Look at the story lines/character development, take off the nostalgia glasses and tell me which character is more important to MOTU.

Marzo NEVER takes off the nostalgia glasses!

Illumina even has the redemption factor. She was a very bad girl in the beginning.

Illumina is like...you know how some shows introduce a "new" character, and then do an episode and you see that the "new" character appeared in ALL the important scenes of the last year or two and caused or prevented things from happening? That's how I see Illumina. She's omni-present, but almost never seen.

Originally Posted by Count Marzo

The ones I saw as a kid on my tv growing up watching cartoons that never got figures are a lot more important to MOTU than a 200x comic concept character that never happened except on a single preview page of a comic book.

You see her as an important character to MOTU because of what they had instore for her when the fact is not many people even know who she is. I could easily live without her. In fact, I'm actually getting sick of hearing about her lately. It's starting to feel like most people want her and keep pushing her just because she's sort of "taboo" to keep pushing for. If she wasn't a MVC creation, people on here wouldnt even care at all. Imagine if Toyguru created her what would people say then? That said, I wish Val and/or Emiliano were allowed to create a new figure for this 30th collection. Afterall, they've done more for the MOTU fandom than ANYONE by keeping it alive for years and years and years with no sign of anything MOTU at all.

(No offense to Emiliano/MVC for creating Illumina of course just my opinion of what I see going on here. I own all the MVC comics.)

Nostalgia glasses! Come on, I was being 100% serious in my post. Just because a character made it to TV doesn't mean the character is extremely important or anything.

That is true, but that TV exposure does wonders for relatively unimportant characters.

It's true not a whole lot of people know who she is, but the same is true for Kittrina, for example (since her name came up). She was in one episode and needed help, but didn't trust He-Man. This isn't meant as an insult, but she's as important as that old woman who spread the rumour about "The Tingler" Blue started up a thread about. They got the same screen time and similar stories. Kittrina would just make a more compelling figure.

30 years of nostalgia does that for one episode wonders. People like Kittrina's concept look, design and mannerisms, something that can get across in an episode versus a picture. Dammit, I can't believe I'm agreeing with Marzo!

The other part...wow! I think you're WAY far off there! I remember when that ad first appeared in the MVC comic and everyone was wondering who she was, talked about how awesome she looked, couldn't wait for issue 4 to find out, etc. The main speculation was that she was a badass warrior who would turn out to be Keldor's mother. We learned she isn't Keldor's mother, just the speculation. When it was learned she would not be featured in the comics, people were crushed.

Do a ginormous amount of people know who she is? No. The ones reading the comics sure did, and she was well received from the teaser image and people were EXCITED about her! This was all before any controversy or politics existed, CM.

Now, it's obvious SOME people just want her because Mattel's kind of being a bully about her, which makes them want her (I've seen 2-3 people post that). That's not the case for the majority though. They genuinely want her figure. I wanted a figure of her the first time I saw that image posted online!

If she was made into a figure, what would I say? I would be over the moon and probably send thank you letters to each of the 4H and Toyguru!

I also really want She-Zar and some other obscure characters. Nobody at Mattel has said ANYTHING about her. I don't even know if they can make her (I asked, but my question hasn't been answered yet). Why do I want her? She has an awesome story, looks wicked cool, has great powers and can transform into a fish! She's not really evil...just...wants to flood Eternia and make it her new home world for her people. She would make an excellent ally or even Queen for Mer-Man though.

EDIT: Also, the reason you're hearing so much about Illumina (and will continue to) is because Toyguru said she requires 5000 people to support her, so it's solely up to fans to educate and drum up support. Every other character just needs a regular support thread (even if they've very obscure). Not sure what makes Illumina so different. If Mattel would at least say that Illumina is in the road map release at some point (even if that's 2017), I think you would hear about her as much as any other character. Except from me, maybe. I've been asking questions to Mattel about Illumina since before it was the "in" thing to do.

Anyway, I like what Shawn Thompson had to say on Facebook about Illumina:

I think he's right here too. While Illumina has legitimate fans who have always wanted her, the polictics and "injustice" of Mattel not wanting to make her and hatred for Spector tends to make Illumina a cause, rather than a cool character.

Originally Posted by Reboot

That is ****ing ridiculous.

For one thing, point me to ANY official source on blue/cat-girl that doesn't amount to a nameless pin-up. Mattel ***REJECTED*** that pitch, which makes it fanfic. She's equivalent to potato-salad guy (hell, she doesn't even have an official *NAME*!)

In addition, House of Shokoti was viewed by millions of people. MVCMotUv3 #3 was bought by... oh... fewer than 14k in North America. Of which 13k probably never gave a never-realised pinup more than a second thought

For one thing, point me to ANY official source on blue/cat-girl that doesn't amount to a nameless pin-up. Mattel ***REJECTED*** that pitch, which makes it fanfic. She's equivalent to potato-salad guy (hell, she doesn't even have an official *NAME*!)

Of course she has a name. Just because it wasn't used in the comic does not mean it doesn't exist. Illumina is not a fan fiction character, she appeared in an officially licensed Mattel product, and they own all rights to her. Name one fanfic character that you can say that about.

Mattel also prevented MVCreations from creating ANY new characters, not just Illumina. They even got mad when Scareglow was used, despite him being fair game. Their restrictions at the time were ridiculous, and if that same mandate had been given to Filmation or Mike Young Productions we wouldn't have gotten Shokoti, Carnivus, Faceless One, Shadow Weaver or anyone else who didn't originate at Mattel.

If someone like Carnivus can get a toy so early in the line when he was little more than a background character, then I say Illumina is just as deserving. He may have appeared in a more high profile cartoon series, but there were still plenty of fans who had no idea who he was when his Classics figure was unveiled.

Of course she has a name. Just because it wasn't used in the comic does not mean it doesn't exist.

It doesn't *officially* exist unless it's used on-screen/on-panel in a cartoon/movie/comic/other official fiction. Stuff from a rejected pitch posted on a message board years later ain't canon.

Originally Posted by RocketPunch

Mattel also prevented MVCreations from creating ANY new characters, not just Illumina. They even got mad when Scareglow was used, despite him being fair game. Their restrictions at the time were ridiculous, and if that same mandate had been given to Filmation or Mike Young Productions we wouldn't have gotten Shokoti, Carnivus, Faceless One, Shadow Weaver or anyone else who didn't originate at Mattel.

The reason (or lack of reason) for the restrictions doesn't matter, just that they existed. Hypotheticals don't matter either - there's no huge groundswell of support for this never-used Filmation concept, which is on the same basic level as Illumina, well below Shokoti, Shadow Weaver, et al.

Look at the story lines/character development, take off the nostalgia glasses and tell me which character is more important to MOTU.

Illumina even has the redemption factor. She was a very bad girl in the beginning.

Illumina is like...you know how some shows introduce a "new" character, and then do an episode and you see that the "new" character appeared in ALL the important scenes of the last year or two and caused or prevented things from happening? That's how I see Illumina. She's omni-present, but almost never seen.

Yes but those shows actually produce episodes with the characters in it so that the audience can build a relationship with him or her. The character does not become important to the audience just because some writer says so but because the audience takes a liking to her/him. If that does not happen the character just becomes obscure wether he or she was written as a major player or not. See Marvel Comics the Sentinel who was supposed to have been a major player in all of Marvels key events but never took off with the audience and was ultimately killed and swept under a rug. Or that couple on Lost that appeared out of nowhere in one of the later seasons and was never accepted by the audience either and was later killed off in the show. A character has not only to be written to be a major player he or she also has to be accepted as a major player by the audience. Illumina is much too obscure at the moment to have that status granted by the audience yet. Just because she was supposed to be a major player does not mean she really is.
I have nothing against the character and good luck with getting her produced but I think granting her an important status in the MOTUC lore just because she was supposed to be a major player is a little bit farfetched.

I hate to agree with Marzo, but he's right. From their exposure, a MOTU cartoon character is automatically bigger than any MOTU book character, especially since Illumina only appeared in an ad.

Marzo NEVER takes off the nostalgia glasses!

That is true, but that TV exposure does wonders for relatively unimportant characters.

30 years of nostalgia does that for one episode wonders. People like Kittrina's concept look, design and mannerisms, something that can get across in an episode versus a picture. Dammit, I can't believe I'm agreeing with Marzo!

I think he's right here too. While Illumina has legitimate fans who have always wanted her, the polictics and "injustice" of Mattel not wanting to make her and hatred for Spector tends to make Illumina a cause, rather than a cool character.

Oh and I don't wear nostalgia glasses, I have nostalgia contacts, and plan on getting nostalgia laser surgery so I never see anything as quality past a certain year ever again!

For one thing, point me to ANY official source on blue/cat-girl that doesn't amount to a nameless pin-up. Mattel ***REJECTED*** that pitch, which makes it fanfic. She's equivalent to potato-salad guy (hell, she doesn't even have an official *NAME*!)

In addition, House of Shokoti was viewed by millions of people. MVCMotUv3 #3 was bought by... oh... fewer than 14k in North America. Of which 13k probably never gave a never-realised pinup more than a second thought

Source? The creators...probably the MVC Bible...Mattel acknowledging her name = not a nameless pin-up.

Originally Posted by Reboot

It doesn't *officially* exist unless it's used on-screen/on-panel in a cartoon/movie/comic/other official fiction. Stuff from a rejected pitch posted on a message board years later ain't canon.

So I guess the Filmation Bibles do not exist where bio material has come from, and the MYP Bible doesn't exist...and "what would have happened in MYP" like the Sorceress dying, Adora coming to Eternia, etc. doesn't exist. Oh wait...that was all taken as fact and put into the bios! Gygor and all the other concept figures that never made it, but we learn about through online pictures that people support, or just randomly arrive (Gygor, Vikor, Demo-Man) must not exist either, right?

The MVC Bible probably contains all this info, but, out of ALL the Bibles out there...Mattel will not allow this specific one to be shared to the public. ALL the other Bibles have been shared, including MYP (in German, but it's still there).

there's no huge groundswell of support for this never-used Filmation concept, which is on the same basic level as Illumina, well below Shokoti, Shadow Weaver, et al.

Never seen him before. Illumina is more well known than him, as she appeared in a comic and there was a lot of discussion about her at the time she was released. He's a cool design though. He's pretty much one of mini-comic Catra's cat men wearing armour...or the inspiration for Chief Carnivus.

Take part in Illumina Day! Let people know who she is and help get her in MOTUC.