dusk2k2 wrote:Just curious if the Minnesota 3L's posting in this thread could tell us a little about their job prospects. Especially helpful would be whether you have a big law offer (since majority of this board goes to law school with big law aspirations).

Of my own 2L class, I can't imagine much more than 30 people have a biglaw SA lined up.

I think the statement that the majority of people here go to law school with big law aspirations is a bit presumptuous. I didn't go to law school with big law aspirations. I actually felt compelled to avoid biglaw, which I made pretty obvious in my personal statement. With that said, I certainly did want to keep that option open - which played into my choice when deciding on a law school. But be careful in assuming that, because I think the reality is that a lot of people don't know what they are going to law school for, and often end up following the herd.

I received an offer this past June from the small firm I've been working at since my 1L summer. I haven't applied to any other position in my entire time in law school but am confident I'd have options in several areas. I'll let some other 3L's speak for themselves, but I do know many who are at big law firms in Minneapolis, Chicago and New York.

A few things prelaw students who are intent on big law need to keep in mind, though. (and I'm not intending this part to be a response to dusk2k2, so please don't take it that way).

1. If you're intent on going into big law, you need to be in the top of your class (at UMN, that means being in the top half, at bare minimum, but much more preferably - the top quartile). 2. Once you have the grades, you have to realize that's not enough. You need a personality - and not one that's manufactured. Keep some balance and world perspective in law school by doing other things. Have a life. 3. Meet people and make real, sincere connections. Attendance at networking events alone isn't enough - you have to actually care about getting to know people if you expect networking to be useful. Finally, don't assume that any job should be handed to you upon graduation just because you attend any institution. That's not the way the world works, folks. Law school isn't a meal ticket, nor should it be.

I'm so tired of every Minnesota thread just turning into some head ache inducing battle of dan and his followers vs. others. Every other law school in tls I can research and get some positive / negatives... with Minnesota all I receive is a 5 page battle on why there are chains to desks or some other useless shit

ThreeRivers wrote:I'm so tired of every Minnesota thread just turning into some head ache inducing battle of dan and his followers vs. others. Every other law school in tls I can research and get some positive / negatives... with Minnesota all I receive is a 5 page battle on why there are chains to desks or some other useless shit

I'm fairly certain that debate ended earlier this week. I think it's best we move on from it, which is why I haven't addressed it. If you have other questions about the law school, I'd be happy to answer them on this or another thread.

ThreeRivers wrote:I'm so tired of every Minnesota thread just turning into some head ache inducing battle of dan and his followers vs. others. Every other law school in tls I can research and get some positive / negatives... with Minnesota all I receive is a 5 page battle on why there are chains to desks or some other useless shit

What "others"? By my count, there were two.

As to valid positives/negatives, without going into any great detail, I've talked about the quality of the adjuncts, the curriculum problems with P&P, the laptop program, and the regional limitations of the school. I've also pointed to the school's faculty as a strength (which I continue to assert it is). If you want a more positive perspective, Josh here seems to be keen on talking up the positives. I don't think he's made any move to impugn me or to marginalize my criticisms of the school, and likewise I think his perspective is a valuable addition to the discussion -- and the more the merrier.

Admittedly, it is unfortunate that a small handful of UMN's more childish advocates have felt the need to come here with the agenda of "attacking" me rather than sharing their possibly differing perspective. It's not like I enjoy getting embroiled in exchanges with them, and it's always been my position that hearing more voices makes for a better informed decision. Frankly, I find it bizarre that anyone would disagree with that, though there seem to be at least a couple people who simply cannot abide my expressing an opinion different from their own. Nevertheless, I think there's been a lot of good information for 0Ls here, and if you're interested in positives and negatives, apart from the stains and chains, I'm not really sure what you're talking about. Both UMN threads have plenty of substantive discussion on both counts.

As an addendum -- if anyone has any questions about Minneapolis or UMN, apart from whether to come here or not, I am also open to answering such questions. Even though I would advise 99.9% of people to avoid this place, if you've decided that you're coming anyway, I'd be happy to answer questions about housing or where to get a decent meal or whatever.

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dusk2k2 wrote:Just curious if the Minnesota 3L's posting in this thread could tell us a little about their job prospects. Especially helpful would be whether you have a big law offer (since majority of this board goes to law school with big law aspirations).

Of my own 2L class, I can't imagine much more than 30 people have a biglaw SA lined up.

Hi, Dusk!

I've already spoken about my own job prospects earlier in this thread (I have a post-graduation job offer at a Vault 100 firm). I've heard from a few friends at my school who struck out in 2L OCI--some 3Ls, some recent grads--that they are being picked up by big firms. The firms are suddenly busy again, I guess. In my personal opinion, landing a job at a big law firm is a result of the alchemy of the job market, school ranking, transcript (GPA/quartile/ranking), resume (pre-law-school experiences), school recognition in the firm's market, luck, the candidate's professional demeanor, and networking.

This isn't a law-school-specific question, but I'd love to know how to go about getting gopher hockey season tickets. And, recommendations for places to live would be great. I'm in the market for a nice apartment (fitness center, pool, controlled access, concierge) located near the law school.

woodscommaL wrote:This isn't a law-school-specific question, but I'd love to know how to go about getting gopher hockey season tickets. And, recommendations for places to live would be great. I'm in the market for a nice apartment (fitness center, pool, controlled access, concierge) located near the law school.

1. Become a student. Grad students also get preference over undergrads for tickets. (and if you meet gopher undergrad alum in the law school, they'll get even better pref. on tix)

2. I live in a building with all of that, but its downtown. You're not going to find a concierge anywhere near the law school, but there are a few other buildings in that area that have everything else). Anyways- it takes me 8 minutes to get to school

woodscommaL wrote:This isn't a law-school-specific question, but I'd love to know how to go about getting gopher hockey season tickets. And, recommendations for places to live would be great. I'm in the market for a nice apartment (fitness center, pool, controlled access, concierge) located near the law school.

woodscommaL wrote:This isn't a law-school-specific question, but I'd love to know how to go about getting gopher hockey season tickets. And, recommendations for places to live would be great. I'm in the market for a nice apartment (fitness center, pool, controlled access, concierge) located near the law school.

1. Become a student. Grad students also get preference over undergrads for tickets. (and if you meet gopher undergrad alum in the law school, they'll get even better pref. on tix)

2. I live in a building with all of that, but its downtown. You're not going to find a concierge anywhere near the law school, but there are a few other buildings in that area that have everything else). Anyways- it takes me 8 minutes to get to school

Thanks for the quick response.

1. I know that graduate students get preference, but I was more wondering how I physically get tickets? How do I request them, and when should I be doing that? I know it's early, but gopher and wild season tickets will be a necessity if I decide to go to the U.

2. Based on what I've seen online, I'd probably live downtown or in the warehouse district. Are there any specific buildings you would recommend or advise against?

woodscommaL wrote:This isn't a law-school-specific question, but I'd love to know how to go about getting gopher hockey season tickets. And, recommendations for places to live would be great. I'm in the market for a nice apartment (fitness center, pool, controlled access, concierge) located near the law school.

1. I know that graduate students get preference, but I was more wondering how I physically get tickets? How do I request them, and when should I be doing that? I know it's early, but gopher and wild season tickets will be a necessity if I decide to go to the U.

2. Based on what I've seen online, I'd probably live downtown or in the warehouse district. Are there any specific buildings you would recommend or advise against?

1.) I got an email when they went on sale (before school started). That may have had something to do with the fact that I was an alum and an employee. Tell ya what - shoot me a PM and I'll make sure to help you out. I certainly won't be buying Gopher hockey tix this coming year - so there might be a way you can use my spot in line. Either way, I can also shoot your question to the admissions office.

2.) I live in Wilson Park Tower. That and Hennepin Crossing are both part of Laurel Village. I highly recommend it. Extensive background check nd application process - but its well worth it. Another good building is RiverWest - but it's mostly owner rental, which I'm not a huge fan of. There are tons more... the admissions office actually has a person assigned to assist with that - we can talk more at ASW or you can call up after we get back from break.

woodscommaL wrote:This isn't a law-school-specific question, but I'd love to know how to go about getting gopher hockey season tickets. And, recommendations for places to live would be great. I'm in the market for a nice apartment (fitness center, pool, controlled access, concierge) located near the law school.

Avoid the GrandMarc, if possible, total rip off.

Noted. Thanks!

Another area of Minneapolis that a lot of law students enjoy is Uptown. It's a vibrant (but pricier) neighborhood. I don't know how she affords it, but I have a friend who lives at the Calhoun Beach Club. She loves it.

Calhoun Beach Club Apartments are located on Lake Calhoun in Minneapolis, MN. Our high-rise apartments feature private patio or balcony views of Lake Calhoun, Lake of the Isles, Cedar Lake and downtown Minneapolis. Each apartment includes an in-home washer and dryer, and many apartments have GE appliances, wood floors and a fireplace.Full concierge services, a full service salon, restaurant, courtyard, spa services, a nutrition store and garage parking. Residents get free membership to the Calhoun Beach Health Club, featuring indoor and outdoor swimming pools, yoga, pilates and dance classes, tennis, racquetball and squash courts. Swim, boat or enjoy the beach at Lake Calhoun, just across the street. 25 minutes from the airport. Call or visit our website to schedule your personal tour.

minnbills wrote:I thought uptown was cheaper than most of the neighborhoods closest to campus?

It is, but if you're looking for the sort of amenities you mentioned in your question, concierge, pool, etc., I believe that you'd have to stick to the luxury apartment buildings in Uptown, like the Calhoun Beach Club.

minnbills wrote:I thought uptown was cheaper than most of the neighborhoods closest to campus?

It is, but if you're looking for the sort of amenities you mentioned in your question, concierge, pool, etc., I believe that you'd have to stick to the luxury apartment buildings in Uptown, like the Calhoun Beach Club.

minnbills wrote:I thought uptown was cheaper than most of the neighborhoods closest to campus?

It is, but if you're looking for the sort of amenities you mentioned in your question, concierge, pool, etc., I believe that you'd have to stick to the luxury apartment buildings in Uptown, like the Calhoun Beach Club.

I disagree. Most of those are in downtown - which is closer.

Oh, no, I meant that, if you wanted to live in Uptown, which a lot of law students seem to prefer, and still wanted those sort of perks, you would probably have to stick to luxury apartment buildings like Calhoun. I myself don't live in Uptown; I've only visited the apartments of friends who live there, so I'm not an expert.

UMN-3L wrote:Oh, no, I meant that, if you wanted to live in Uptown, which a lot of law students seem to prefer, and still wanted those sort of perks, you would probably have to stick to luxury apartment buildings like Calhoun. I myself don't live in Uptown; I've only visited the apartments of friends who live there, so I'm not an expert.

I take it that you don't drink PBR's then? I hear that's an Uptown requirement. lol - I'm only joking. Uptown is pretty legit.

UMN-3L wrote:Oh, no, I meant that, if you wanted to live in Uptown, which a lot of law students seem to prefer, and still wanted those sort of perks, you would probably have to stick to luxury apartment buildings like Calhoun. I myself don't live in Uptown; I've only visited the apartments of friends who live there, so I'm not an expert.

I take it that you don't drink PBR's then? I hear that's an Uptown requirement. lol - I'm only joking. Uptown is pretty legit.

Haha, no PBRs; I'm definitely not hip enough for Uptown. I have fallen on my ass on an icy Uptown sidewalk before, before, so I have a lot of respect for the girls who can manage to get around there in their clubbing gear in the middle of winter.

I've been following the thread for some time now. Bookmarked it since Daniel hopped in with those entertaining rejoinders =)

I was seriously deterred from attending UMN because of the problem Daniel mentioned concerning the adjunct profs(I have no problem with the buildings feeling like dungeons...) But with the $23k scholly, I really have to weigh the other factors more carefully now, so I have a couple of questions myself:

1. How much does it cost for you to live on campus? And if you live off campus and share it with say... one or two other people?

col.faith wrote:I've been following the thread for some time now. Bookmarked it since Daniel hopped in with those entertaining rejoinders =)

I was seriously deterred from attending UMN because of the problem Daniel mentioned concerning the adjunct profs(I have no problem with the buildings feeling like dungeons...) But with the $23k scholly, I really have to weigh the other factors more carefully now, so I have a couple of questions myself:

1. How much does it cost for you to live on campus? And if you live off campus and share it with say... one or two other people?

2. Are you able to apply for in-state tuition after your 1L year?

Thanks in advance!

Regarding the adjuncts, let me put it this way - with the exception of one of them, my adjuncts have been phenomenal. In fact, I got my job through my first year Practice and Professionalism adjunct - who was a GREAT teacher. While I had a terrible 1L legal writing adjunct, the student instructor in that class was amazing - as was the professor who oversees the legal writing program. I went to him halfway through the year and complained about my legal writing adjunct. As it turns out, I was one of the last few in my entire class who hadn't yet complained. He was promptly fired. I suggest taking anecdotes for what they're worth; the vast majority of adjuncts have been around for a long time and are good at the their jobs.

There is some on campus housing for graduate students, but very little. I don't know of anybody other than foreign LLM students who have lived there and strongly advise against it. The cost of living in Minneapolis is pretty good. It truly varies based on the kind of place you want to live in, You'll find rent anywhere between $350-$1200. I'd say on average you're looking at $650 or so.

It is very difficult to get in state tuition. In fact, the only way you'll get it is if you work as a graduate assistant. Those jobs are very rare and I don't know of many who have done it. With that said, I'm a TA in the political science department (and have been since the beginning of 1L year), so it certainly is possible. The easiest thing to do is to contact the departments you are interested in working for and letting them know you're interested in a gig should the need open up for them to seek graduate assistants outside of their department.

MidwestJosh wrote:Regarding the adjuncts, let me put it this way - with the exception of one of them, my adjuncts have been phenomenal. In fact, I got my job through my first year Practice and Professionalism adjunct - who was a GREAT teacher. While I had a terrible 1L legal writing adjunct, the student instructor in that class was amazing - as was the professor who oversees the legal writing program. I went to him halfway through the year and complained about my legal writing adjunct. As it turns out, I was one of the last few in my entire class who hadn't yet complained. He was promptly fired. I suggest taking anecdotes for what they're worth; the vast majority of adjuncts have been around for a long time and are good at the their jobs.

There is some on campus housing for graduate students, but very little. I don't know of anybody other than foreign LLM students who have lived there and strongly advise against it. The cost of living in Minneapolis is pretty good. It truly varies based on the kind of place you want to live in, You'll find rent anywhere between $350-$1200. I'd say on average you're looking at $650 or so.

It is very difficult to get in state tuition. In fact, the only way you'll get it is if you work as a graduate assistant. Those jobs are very rare and I don't know of many who have done it. With that said, I'm a TA in the political science department (and have been since the beginning of 1L year), so it certainly is possible. The easiest thing to do is to contact the departments you are interested in working for and letting them know you're interested in a gig should the need open up for them to seek graduate assistants outside of their department.

minnbills wrote:What do you think is a reasonable debt load for someone going to UMN?

"Reasonable", eh? As you'll discover in law school, that's a tricky word to define. In this context, I think it depends on your individual circumstances. Things to consider:

Undergrad debtType of law you're planning on going intoWhether you have financial support from familyOther debtWhere you want to work geographically (cost of living)Your ability to manage your financesYour comfort with debtYour plans related to having a familyDo you want to buy/rent, etc