Anyways, a number of things set BB out in front here for me. One is that the characterization of old Wayne is simply better here than in DKR. In BB he is grumpy, cynical, weighed down by his past... but still ultimately heroic, still holding onto his ideals and beliefs, not surrendering his philosophy just because he is tired of fighting the darkness. There's a consistency and strength there despite the fact that he's a darker Bruce.

Then there is the fact that the story is a lot more fun. It isn't as self-absorbed. DKR is at points pretentious - BB is able to confront dark themes at points without letting them bog the story down. BB has its fair share of overly cheesy episodes, but by and large the story, setting, and cast of characters are more enjoyable.

Which story do I find myself returning to time and time again? Beyond, not DKR.

That's not to say that someone who likes DKR doesn't have a valid opinion. It was influential and important as a work, especially when first released. Ultimately to me it is not as enjoyable. But I understand if others disagree.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrow_22

Look for reports of mysterious heroism in the next 6 years. Then check back on this thread

Anyways, a number of things set BB out in front here for me. One is that the characterization of old Wayne is simply better here than in DKR. In BB he is grumpy, cynical, weighed down by his past... but still ultimately heroic, still holding onto his ideals and beliefs, not surrendering his philosophy just because he is tired of fighting the darkness. There's a consistency and strength there despite the fact that he's a darker Bruce.

Then there is the fact that the story is a lot more fun. It isn't as self-absorbed. DKR is at points pretentious - BB is able to confront dark themes at points without letting them bog the story down. BB has its fair share of overly cheesy episodes, but by and large the story, setting, and cast of characters are more enjoyable.

Which story do I find myself returning to time and time again? Beyond, not DKR.

That's not to say that someone who likes DKR doesn't have a valid opinion. It was influential and important as a work, especially when first released. Ultimately to me it is not as enjoyable. But I understand if others disagree.

At first I really didn't like the fact that Bruce wasn't Batman but Terry really grew on me. Plus don't forget one of the best theme songs ever.
niiianna!!, na! Nuaaaa, naaa!

Even though I love that episode, the premise is a bit flimsy. The execution of everything in that episode, and even the concept of bookending BB in the JLU universe was really cool. I mean, chronologically isn't it kind of a bookend to the DC animated universe, is there any stories that would take place AFTER the point in time where Terry is a full fledged adult?

I also agree that The Call is the best episode of the series, even though it's a two parter it had the most intrigue to me. It had some cool twists and turns that it almost could have been expanded into an animated feature. Beyond that my second favorite episode is the one with Talia, that episode was just heavy for a lot of reasons.

I think DKR was a product of its time, which is why some of the elements of the story don't hold up as well for some of you. Personally, I always looked at it as sort of an elseworlds story and not the definitive vision of an elderly Batman. All I have to say is, reading it for the first time as a 13 year old it effected me pretty deeply. I had never really read anything like it and by the time that dialogue between Bruce and Clark kicks in("I want you to remember, in all your private moments") I was practically shaking. I don't think anything in Batman Beyond is as exciting as the storytelling in the DKR. I do love me some Return Of The Joker though, that was a rather excellent movie.

I really don't think Bruce Timm would have created the Beyond if not for Miller's Batman. Some of the story tropes come straight from the novel.

I'm not saying batmanfanboy wasn't trolling a bit, but I do find that TDKR is very deep and I love it very much so saying its crap when it is critically renowned would come as a bit of a surprise to most who love what miller has done.

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There was a time above... a time before. There were perfect things... diamond absolutes. But things fall, things on Earth. And what falls... is fallen. In the dream, they took me to the light. A beautiful lie.

I love the concept of Batman Beyond more than the series/movies themselves. Some of it is too cartoony or ridiculous (cloning) but it's still friggin cool as hell. Very creative i thought.

Im also not a fan of the artwork for TDKReturns. The animation turned it into something much more appealing to look at visually. It's very 80's. Much like how i think Year One seems to be very 70's. Therefore Beyond comes off as more fascinating.

But DKReturns wins for me. Because of what it stands for, what it influenced. It's a single story versus a series (+ film) and because of that it's more strong and compact. It's more mature and definately not tailor made for the kids..which is more up my alley. Miller-Joker wins as well.

As of right now, Returns has my vote. But that could change. The new animated films for Dark Knight Returns and the parts of Nolans films that are inspired by it are making me appreciate it so much more. But ill give it some time to wear off. Beyond is kick-ass and there's no denying that.

Batman Beyond easily..
the action in TDKR animated is amazing but batman to me comes off as unlikeable..i am aware that batman can be interpreted in various ways, this just happens to be one i dont enjoy as much.

The Bruce of Batman Beyond is more how i envisioned him to be like, that plus the dna of the animated series is all over the beyond series which makes it that much more enjoyable (well interesting at least, there was nothing enjoyable about what happened to poor talia)

All things considered even Bruce in Kingdom Come is preferable to Dark Knight Returns.

But DKReturns wins for me. Because of what it stands for, what it influenced. It's a single story versus a series (+ film) and because of that it's more strong and compact. It's more mature and definately not tailor made for the kids..which is more up my alley. Miller-Joker wins as well.

As of right now, Returns has my vote. But that could change. The new animated films for Dark Knight Returns and the parts of Nolans films that are inspired by it are making me appreciate it so much more. But ill give it some time to wear off. Beyond is kick-ass and there's no denying that.

People, don't you see the hypocrisy here? Saying TDKR sucks as if its a fact on a freakin Batman forum is insulting and trolling in itself. So the Killing Joke sucks now because Its not an animated series? I'm just getting singled out cause this thread is populated by Beyond fans who made a point to be rude about it in the first place. Just like everyone turned on Burton, then Nolan, and now Frank Millers take on Batman. It's just sad and unfair

People, don't you see the hypocrisy here? Saying TDKR sucks as if its a fact on a freakin Batman forum is insulting and trolling in itself. So the Killing Joke sucks now because Its not an animated series? I'm just getting singled out cause this thread is populated by Beyond fans who made a point to be rude about it in the first place. Just like everyone turned on Burton, then Nolan, and now Frank Millers take on Batman. It's just sad and unfair

There's no hypocrisy at all, people can have whatever opinion they like. You are the one whose acting like your opinion is the only one that matters. You're also the one whose trolling cause you can't let it go.

People, don't you see the hypocrisy here? Saying TDKR sucks as if its a fact on a freakin Batman forum is insulting and trolling in itself. So the Killing Joke sucks now because Its not an animated series? I'm just getting singled out cause this thread is populated by Beyond fans who made a point to be rude about it in the first place. Just like everyone turned on Burton, then Nolan, and now Frank Millers take on Batman. It's just sad and unfair

Please, people turned on Frank Miller when he went insane and started writing his contrived crap like Dark Knight Strikes Again and All-Star Batman & Robin the Boy Wonder.

I have a loose adaptation via The Dark Knight Rises and I will have the entire adaptation of The Dark Knight Returns in animated form once I get Part 2, so I wouldn't mind if we never see a live action film of Dark Knight Returns tbh.