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Originally posted by Aeonblades

That's an opinion. Just because you say it's a fact doesn't make it fact. If we were just like animals we would be living in caves grunting at each other. I'll believe we are on the same level as animals when a dolphin builds a rocket and lands on the moon.

Anyway I reiterate...

Please fix SWTOR Bioware, fix the real problems, not issues that clearly are just used to promote the game.

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Originally posted by mnemic666

Originally posted by kevjards

Originally posted by mnemic666

Why shouldn't it be in a game? Heterosexual romance is in games. Violence is in games. Death. Torture. Slavery. Racism. All manner of morally and ethically questionable is explored in gaming, so why would homosexuality need to be excluded from this? Games are more than just "simple fun" now. Some deal with more complex issues, so it's expected that they can and will go down roads that occasionally make people feel "uncomfortable", and feeling uncomfortable is a good thing. I felt uncomfortable as hell playing through Spec Ops, and it was one of the more rewarding experiences I've had in a game lately.

precicely for thsis reason..it creates a divide..there are some that believe homosexuality is wrong..there are some that dont mind.some people are brought up to believe its wrong etc etc..my point is this..while you dont have this type of pandering in game you do not have that divide..just look at some of the comments on here and their forums.

So, we should never attempt to deal with any controversial topics in video games ever? That would relegate them to mindless entertainment rather than an engaging form of media that has the potential to stimulate and provoke thought.

I'm offended by the blatant violence in first person shooters, and that violence is causing a divide in the US due to current events. Should we not make any more violent first person shooters?

What a cop out argument.

has i said they should be kept out of game..also you say your offended by the violence in first person shooters..well there is violence in mmo's..why do you play them..what do you think killing a mob with magic missiles is?

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Originally posted by BadOrb

Try the game yourself if you haven't make up your own mind about it and don't act like sheep for gods sake. It's $4.99 for 4 action bars , 6 character slots and you can play the whole game all the way through , that's a bargain.

End of long post.

Cheers,

BadOrb.

I would say that STO is better value than SWTOR as F2P games, and even paying $15 across multiple accounts in SWG with its insane boatload of fetaures is better value than SWTOR as F2P.

STO is more free than SWTOR, and gives you plenty of non-restricted access to the game without paying a penny, that sucks you deeper into the game, that when you get so far you feel that spending money is more worth it.

Makeb has been banging about since June 2012, and SGR since Sep 2011. Since about June 2012, STO had Season 6 put in, then Season 7 announced and is now in. This month they have announced Season 8 coming soon, probably in by the time Makeb is, and Season 9 also coming later in the year, yet SWTOR is still going on about content done and announced between Sep 2011 and June 2012.

SWG had its faults, but they kept constant updates coming, and you knew more was to come, and it had 3 full blown expansions, not a mini expansion. LA only gave up on SWG in 2006, over 2 years after launch, EA/BW have given up on SWTOR already. SOE still did plenty for SWG after 2005 too.

Also with EA saying they need $7.5 million per month (500K subs) to break even it seems they are only adding in content already written, and with F2P it is not generating enough income for them to break even, and looks like it may shut down by the end of the year. It may not shut down and live for years, but that is not the impression they are giving, and they say they "intend on pursuing more SGR options in the future" and not "will pursue more SGR options in the future" making it sound they know that it may probably not happen. I assume it all depends on the success of the game and if it grows, but if it is not going good, then there is a strong chance they will either not have enough money from subs and F2P to make it happen, or the game may get shut down, plus there is the licence which makes things more rocky.

The game is still good to play, and even if it only lasts the rest of this year, that is plenty time to get the most out of it.

I will only give Bioware a break when EA/BW start progressing the game in leaps and bounds like other MMOs, which is an indication of the game doing good (although that still did not stop SWG and CoH from shutting down) and what STO and SWG got, as I do think that SWTOR is a better game than STO, but BW/EA are just letting it rot.

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Originally posted by mnemic666

Originally posted by Aeonblades

That's an opinion. Just because you say it's a fact doesn't make it fact. If we were just like animals we would be living in caves grunting at each other. I'll believe we are on the same level as animals when a dolphin builds a rocket and lands on the moon.

Anyway I reiterate...

Please fix SWTOR Bioware, fix the real problems, not issues that clearly are just used to promote the game.

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Originally posted by kevjards

has i said they should be kept out of game..also you say your offended by the violence in first person shooters..well there is violence in mmo's..why do you play them..what do you think killing a mob with magic missiles is?

Um... you kind of did say that it shouldn't be in gaming so...yeah.

My response with regards to violence was to highlight that controversy can appear anywhere, pointing to the current focus on violent video games (primarily first and third person shooters) in relation to the recent US shootings. If we were to create games free of controversy, we would have to stop making those types of games, something which I am categorically against. As far as I'm concerned, games should be made to explore any topic that the game makers want, as they're a unique way to look at different topics.

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That's theory. If you believe in creationism, you will not believe theories like that.

No, that's a scientific fact.

And if you believe in creationism, you've already indicated that facts make no difference to you as you will reject facts, and even theories supported by significant amounts of evidence (to the point where there is very little reasoned controversy to the theory). This means that there is zero point in debating further with you as you have no desire to expand your current understanding of the world and deal with facts, but would rather maintain your current world view at the cost of rational thought and knowledge.

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That's theory. If you believe in creationism, you will not believe theories like that.

No, that's a scientific fact.

And if you believe in creationism, you've already indicated that facts make no difference to you as you will reject facts, and even theories supported by significant amounts of evidence (to the point where there is very little reasoned controversy to the theory). This means that there is zero point in debating further with you as you have no desire to expand your current understanding of the world and deal with facts, but would rather maintain your current world view at the cost of rational thought and knowledge.

So what happens when I'm an atheist and still believe humans are beyond animals? The world came crashing down :)

Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIVHave played: You name itIf you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

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That's theory. If you believe in creationism, you will not believe theories like that.

No, that's a scientific fact.

And if you believe in creationism, you've already indicated that facts make no difference to you as you will reject facts, and even theories supported by significant amounts of evidence (to the point where there is very little reasoned controversy to the theory). This means that there is zero point in debating further with you as you have no desire to expand your current understanding of the world and deal with facts, but would rather maintain your current world view at the cost of rational thought and knowledge.

Translation: "If you don't agree with my way of thinking, you are wrong"

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Originally posted by mnemic666

Originally posted by kevjards

has i said they should be kept out of game..also you say your offended by the violence in first person shooters..well there is violence in mmo's..why do you play them..what do you think killing a mob with magic missiles is?

Um... you kind of did say that it shouldn't be in gaming so...yeah.

My response with regards to violence was to highlight that controversy can appear anywhere, pointing to the current focus on violent video games (primarily first and third person shooters) in relation to the recent US shootings. If we were to create games free of controversy, we would have to stop making those types of games, something which I am categorically against. As far as I'm concerned, games should be made to explore any topic that the game makers want, as they're a unique way to look at different topics.

well that was my point..keep controversy out of the game by not bringing it in ,in the first place..that way you avoid all that stuff.the idea behind playing rpg's or any game is to get away from all this crap.see my point is this that we are both divided in the way we think..if you dont put that stuff in game in the first place there is no divide.i do understand what you mean but what happens in RL should really not appear in a game..hence fantasy..its to take you away from the RL issues.

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Originally posted by lizardbones

I can give Bioware a break for Makeb. They are at least trying, sort of. Their execution is pretty lacking I think, but they are making an effort, and they will be continuing that effort by integrating those options into the rest of the game.

I can't really give them a break for most of the rest of the game though. It doesn't matter how friendly they are to any given community, most of the game is pretty weak.

I would have given Bioware a break for Makeb if it was 1) In by the end of 2012 like they said and 2) FREE, like they said.

In an interview in June with EA/BW, they said it was already written, and they said whether the game fails or succeeds, it will be still added to the game.

They could have put this in in Dec, but are just holding it back to keep subbers strung along, as have no other content (nor willing to pay devs to create more content) to add.

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Seems like a great way to bring attention to a dead game's new expansion pack thats coming out. If i was gay or cared about this same sex stuff finally being in video games, I would be more offended I think then not.

EA (stop calling them BioWare) is using it as a attention grabbing, and thus a potential money making avenue, nothing more.

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Translation: "If you don't agree with my way of thinking, you are wrong"

No, facts are a thing. They exist. You are either wrong, or right about a fact. The fact doesn't give a fuck if you agree with it or not, it will continue to exist. Here's an example:

Fact: The earth revolves around the sun.

That's currently a fact you can't dispute. You're free to believe that the sun revolves around the earth, but you are wrong. It has nothing to do with whether I agree with you are not, the fact is that you are incorrect in your belief and we can prove that you are incorrect. The same applies to humans being animals.

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Originally posted by kevjards

well that was my point..keep controversy out of the game by not bringing it in ,in the first place..that way you avoid all that stuff.the idea behind playing rpg's or any game is to get away from all this crap.see my point is this that we are both divided in the way we think..if you dont put that stuff in game in the first place there is no divide.i do understand what you mean but what happens in RL should really not appear in a game..hence fantasy..its to take you away from the RL issues.

What happens IRL appears in fantasy games all the time. It's a ROLE playing game, so I would imagine that a full role playing game would allow you to fill the role you wanted.If it's going to support romance, it would be remiss not to support both heterosexual and homosexual romances if it wants to stay true to its name.

Again, if we're going to avoid controversy, by your logic we shouldn't have any violent first or third person shooters. They're causing quite a stir now, so they should be removed.

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That's theory. If you believe in creationism, you will not believe theories like that.

No, that's a scientific fact.

And if you believe in creationism, you've already indicated that facts make no difference to you as you will reject facts, and even theories supported by significant amounts of evidence (to the point where there is very little reasoned controversy to the theory). This means that there is zero point in debating further with you as you have no desire to expand your current understanding of the world and deal with facts, but would rather maintain your current world view at the cost of rational thought and knowledge.

So what happens when I'm an atheist and still believe humans are beyond animals? The world came crashing down :)

so now we've got a creationist, an evolutionist, an atheist, and a guy that believes in something approximating evolutionary-creationism...surly the entire universe is going to implode on the paradoxical fault line we've created....wait, we are THAT important right?

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That's theory. If you believe in creationism, you will not believe theories like that.

No, that's a scientific fact.

And if you believe in creationism, you've already indicated that facts make no difference to you as you will reject facts, and even theories supported by significant amounts of evidence (to the point where there is very little reasoned controversy to the theory). This means that there is zero point in debating further with you as you have no desire to expand your current understanding of the world and deal with facts, but would rather maintain your current world view at the cost of rational thought and knowledge.

So what happens when I'm an atheist and still believe humans are beyond animals? The world came crashing down :)

so now we've got a creationist, an evolutionist, an atheist, and a guy that believes in something approximating evolutionary-creationism...surly the entire universe is going to implode on the paridoxical fault line we've created....wait, we are THAT important right?

Exactly, well said sir. We aren't important at all in the grand scheme of it :)

Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIVHave played: You name itIf you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

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So what happens when I'm an atheist and still believe humans are beyond animals? The world came crashing down :)

You're free to believe that humans are superior animals that have broken free of their basic instincts (for the most part), I think most people would agree that humans have trancended natural animals as we've moved away from our natural state.

But to say humans are not animals at all is false. We are animals, just highly evolved animals that have broken away from what is natural.

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Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by lizardbones I can give Bioware a break for Makeb. They are at least trying, sort of. Their execution is pretty lacking I think, but they are making an effort, and they will be continuing that effort by integrating those options into the rest of the game. I can't really give them a break for most of the rest of the game though. It doesn't matter how friendly they are to any given community, most of the game is pretty weak.

I would have given Bioware a break for Makeb if it was 1) In by the end of 2012 like they said and 2) FREE, like they said.

In an interview in June with EA/BW, they said it was already written, and they said whether the game fails or succeeds, it will be still added to the game.

They could have put this in in Dec, but are just holding it back to keep subbers strung along, as have no other content (nor willing to pay devs to create more content) to add.

I have pretty low expectations for EA and SWToR, so it's pretty easy for me to give them a break. I also stopped playing the game...I just couldn't continue playing what amounted to WoW, but not as well done. So it's really easy for me to just say, "Meh" and move on.

That's theory. If you believe in creationism, you will not believe theories like that.

No, that's a scientific fact.

And if you believe in creationism, you've already indicated that facts make no difference to you as you will reject facts, and even theories supported by significant amounts of evidence (to the point where there is very little reasoned controversy to the theory). This means that there is zero point in debating further with you as you have no desire to expand your current understanding of the world and deal with facts, but would rather maintain your current world view at the cost of rational thought and knowledge.

So what happens when I'm an atheist and still believe humans are beyond animals? The world came crashing down :)

so now we've got a creationist, an evolutionist, an atheist, and a guy that believes in something approximating evolutionary-creationism...surly the entire universe is going to implode on the paridoxical fault line we've created....wait, we are THAT important right?

Exactly, well said sir. We aren't important at all in the grand scheme of it :)

thanks and you're right, we're not that important in the grand scheme of things...now somebody just needs to come up with a REALLY bad joke where we all walk into a bar ROFL