I loved the movie. I like being challenged and as a 41 year old, this is my franchise and I had no complaints. I've seen every film in the theater since Return of the Jedi.

The biggest thing I am struggling with is people's total disbelief in Luke. Have they not seen the prior films?

First time we see Obi-wan - he is an hermit living in isolation on a desert planet with the cred of a wackjob.Yoda - living as a hermit in isolation on a rain-forest planet with no interaction outside of creatures in the forest.Luke after being a Jedi master - living as a hermit in isolation on a tiny island in the middle of nowhere on an unknown planet.

How is this a stretch? It seems that after you become a Master, things don't exactly work out the way you planned and you end up in hiding trying to live out your days.

In this day and age, it seems that people can't find enjoyment in anything. They go into something just waiting to pick it apart rather than just enjoying the ride and end up bashing the content creators. I could never come up with stuff like this. Thankfully, it allows me to garner more enjoyment than most, it seems, out of music/movies/TV. I'm fine with that.

I loved the movie. I like being challenged and as a 41 year old, this is my franchise and I had no complaints. I've seen every film in the theater since Return of the Jedi.

The biggest thing I am struggling with is people's total disbelief in Luke. Have they not seen the prior films?

First time we see Obi-wan - he is an hermit living in isolation on a desert planet with the cred of a wackjob.Yoda - living as a hermit in isolation on a rain-forest planet with no interaction outside of creatures in the forest.Luke after being a Jedi master - living as a hermit in isolation on a tiny island in the middle of nowhere on an unknown planet.

How is this a stretch? It seems that after you become a Master, things don't exactly work out the way you planned and you end up in hiding trying to live out your days.

In this day and age, it seems that people can't find enjoyment in anything. They go into something just waiting to pick it apart rather than just enjoying the ride and end up bashing the content creators. I could never come up with stuff like this. Thankfully, it allows me to garner more enjoyment than most, it seems, out of music/movies/TV. I'm fine with that.

I think you're not understanding the arguments against the Luke thing. Personally, I really liked where they brought his character, so this isn't an issue with me.

However, the issue other people have isn't that he's a hermit living on an island. It's that he has abandoned the force and think the Jedi need to end. It's that basic mentality.

This EMPIRE STRIKES BACK movie doesn’t make any sense at all. So they blow up the Death Star but the Empire’s just like NOT AFFECTED? They can still show up anywhere and do anything? Glad so many rebel pilots sacrificed themselves in A NEW HOPE, I guess. Plus uuuhhhh I don’t think humans can survive in the arctic overnight with just a coat or some animal intestines. It’s called Biology 101. And since when can smugglers use lightsabers?? Oh and I guess now we have ghosts in this universe too. Ugh. To make no mention of the tiny insane frog person who’s apparently the galaxy’s GREATEST JEDI MASTER?! Gimme a break. And while Luke is training, Han and Leia (who have NO IMPACT on the overall plot) get captured in like two seconds, so when Luke goes to rescue them, he’s done his massive grand Jedi training in, what, forty-eight hours?! Makes no sense. And don’t even get me started on this “I am your father” horse crap. A whole entire galaxy and Vader JUST HAPPENED to be passing over his freaking ESTRANGED SON’S home planet when he lost the Death Star plans one movie earlier??? SMH. And OHMYGOD the ultimate cheap-ass-machina when Leia just kinda INTUITS they should turn around and go pick up dangling Luke. The franchise has officially jumped the shark. Hoping Marquand can turn it around for Episode VI, but I’m not holding my breath.

(In unrelated news, “The Last Jedi” is the best Star Wars film in over thirty years.)

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"Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world.Than the pride that divides when a colorful rag is unfurled." - Neil Peart

What Adami said. Obi-Wan and Yoda still had their sense of duty to the Jedi ways, and still acted to help in the opposition of the Empire. Luke was flippant and obstinate about everything from the first scene, tossing the lightsaber aside.

The more I think about the context of the entire thing, I thought it fit perfectly. He's bitter. The "legend status" had him thinking he could do anything....and then then coming face to face with his own failure dropped him all the way to the bottom after being on top of the world. Completely a natural response.

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"Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world.Than the pride that divides when a colorful rag is unfurled." - Neil Peart

The more I think about the context of the entire thing, I thought it fit perfectly. He's bitter. The "legend status" had him thinking he could do anything....and then then coming face to face with his own failure dropped him all the way to the bottom after being on top of the world. Completely a natural response.

Yup!

Him tossing the light saber was still poorly executed.

I agree with Destiny in that it feels like the production was too fast for the movie. I think it could have benefited from another year or so of reflection on the script and so forth. It had some brilliant ideas that seemed a bit half baked.

The more I think about the context of the entire thing, I thought it fit perfectly. He's bitter. The "legend status" had him thinking he could do anything....and then then coming face to face with his own failure dropped him all the way to the bottom after being on top of the world. Completely a natural response.

Yup!

Him tossing the light saber was still poorly executed.

I agree with Destiny in that it feels like the production was too fast for the movie. I think it could have benefited from another year or so of reflection on the script and so forth. It had some brilliant ideas that seemed a bit half baked.

Agree with both post's!

I disagree with some people (and even Mark Hamill apparently?) who say that it is not Luke Skywalker in this movie. He feels 100 percent like Luke. He's just Luke that has been dragged to hell and back, and then back to hell again. He's character arc is one of the best things about this movie!

Some things in the story could have been tighter. They could have used a bit more time with the production. But overall the positives far outweigh the negatives for me..

What Adami said. Obi-Wan and Yoda still had their sense of duty to the Jedi ways, and still acted to help in the opposition of the Empire. Luke was flippant and obstinate about everything from the first scene, tossing the lightsaber aside.

I actually love that. Not everybody act the same in real life so why would every Jedi react the same? He let his emotions get the best of him. He saw the dark and did not look past that. A human emotion that I was glad to see.

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“I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart

So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? -- BlobVanDam

What Adami said. Obi-Wan and Yoda still had their sense of duty to the Jedi ways, and still acted to help in the opposition of the Empire. Luke was flippant and obstinate about everything from the first scene, tossing the lightsaber aside.

I actually love that. Not everybody act the same in real life so why would every Jedi react the same? He let his emotions get the best of him. He saw the dark and did not look past that. A human emotion that I was glad to see.

Seeing the movie a second time definitely made me like it better. Pretty much every specific complaint I had the first time around I realize I was over reacting about. I mainly thought the story didn't feel like the middle of a trilogy (maybe wanted more of a cliffhanger?) and thought they should have developed Rey's character better. But second time around I don't feel that way at all. I thought Rey's character grew into something quite interesting (she was my favorite character from the film), and the story really kind of is at a cliff hanger in a way (can't think of the resistance being at more of a desperate state, and the First Order still has the upper hand). And, it definitely doesn't feel like "the Jedi's" are going away (Luke said Kylo was wrong about him being the last Jedi, and you see that Rey has the Jedi books).

Great movie. Not quite ready to rate it higher than TFA yet having only seeing it twice, but it's definitely jumped above the prequels for me. My current rating is 4765832R1. (I'm not a huge fan of Rogue one as you can see... It's a decent movie, but doesn't have the replay value that the others have). I imagine a few more views once I buy the blu ray and it may move up a couple spaces in my ranking, possibly.

edit: One other thing that jumped out at me, that I don't recall being discussed (maybe it has and I missed it)... Kylo told Hux when they were checking out Snoke's dead body that "the girl" killed Snoke. Is that a possibility considering Snoke was supposedly reading Kylo's mind at the time of his death? Or is it a clear lie from Kylo? I would like to assume that Kylo did it, but then why would he even say that to Hux? I would think he'd want to take responsibility for it and immediately instill fear as someone clearly stronger than Snoke.

Rumors that the Solo movie is going to suck. Not tremendously surprised, but still a bummer if it turns out to be true. Disney is bound to make a bad Star Wars movie eventually (I know many think TLJ is bad, but I don't.)

I doubt it's *quite* as dire as they're suggesting, but I don't have high hopes for it at all, and I can't believe they're still going with a May release. Push it back to December and get it right. They'll lose a lot of goodwill having TLJ and Solo back to back, especially in the span of half a year. I think they'll be a lot more cautious going forward with who they trust to direct.

I doubt it's *quite* as dire as they're suggesting, but I don't have high hopes for it at all, and I can't believe they're still going with a May release. Push it back to December and get it right. They'll lose a lot of goodwill having TLJ and Solo back to back, especially in the span of half a year. I think they'll be a lot more cautious going forward with who they trust to direct.

Still time to change it. I just assumed December was universal Star Wars moth from now on. Seems to work.

I doubt it's *quite* as dire as they're suggesting, but I don't have high hopes for it at all, and I can't believe they're still going with a May release. Push it back to December and get it right. They'll lose a lot of goodwill having TLJ and Solo back to back, especially in the span of half a year. I think they'll be a lot more cautious going forward with who they trust to direct.

Still time to change it. I just assumed December was universal Star Wars moth from now on. Seems to work.

It seems to be the thing now to initially announce a May release then change it to December. I would have thought it would be a pretty late stage to change the release date by that much though.

I saw it tonight and just had a big ol' post written up airing every one of grievances but I'm going to sleep on it. For now, this movie sucks. I enjoyed it until the credits rolled and then after I left the theater my friend and I started bouncing our questions and problems off each other and boy howdy absolutely nothing holds up to analysis. Awful. Ocean wide, puddle deep, this trilogy. Episode IX probably isn't going to answer anything meaningful either and introduce another handful of characters that'll either die by the end or fall by the wayside along the heap of other useless garbage they foisted upon us here.

Very good effects though with an amazing lightsaber fight scene and some absolutely stunning cinematic shots (the shots after Holdo hits the Supremacy, WHOA).

Just got back from my second viewing. I loved it this time. Still a couple minor issues, but overall I really like this movie. I think my reservations from the first viewing mostly stemmed from it just not being what I expected.

Just got back from my second viewing. I loved it this time. Still a couple minor issues, but overall I really like this movie. I think my reservations from the first viewing mostly stemmed from it just not being what I expected.

This was my experience exactly as well. I've said it a couple times already in this thread but my initial let down from the movie was the fact that none of what I 'thought' would happen....happened. After getting over that and then seeing it again, I love(d) the movie. going to see it again Thursday in IMAX

My biggest issue with TLJ after last night's viewing is Holdo. She's just completely unnecessary. Her role should have been filled by Ackbar. Instead of him being unceremoniously killed off and replaced with a character we don't care about, he should have been the one to take over for Leia and sacrifice himself. There was no emotional response at all to Holdo sacrificing herself since our only knowledge of her was that she was kind of a bitch. Ackbar has been a fan favorite for decades and it would have had more emotional punch.

I don’t mind Holdo. Her being a ”bitch” is more a fault with the writers ignoring logical communication just to keep the plot moving rather than there being a character flaw. If anything, Poe’s more at fault here, which was one of the more pleasant conceptual surprises of the movie even if the execution wasn’t all that great. I’m a big Star Wars fan, but who the heck cares about Ackbar? He’s funny meme, and while I guess him sacrificing himself would have technically worked, I don’t see why it matters.

In my opinion, of all the problems this movie has, Holdo isn’t one of them.

I agree that given that he's become more of a meme in recent years, it might have come across as silly to the audience if Ackbar sacrificed himself, and I'm not sure you could have fleshed him out enough in one movie to overcome that for that big moment. I thought Holdo was a decent character, but she did come across as a bit unlikable for most of the movie (more because she was played as an antagonist to Poe, rather than her actually being a bitch I think), and we didn't find out until the end what she was up to. Finding out her plan was a nice enough part of Poe's arc, but it didn't help me care about her character when she sacrificed herself.

If they had made it Ackbar, what would've been great (in the cheesiest of possible ways) would've been for someone on the Bridge of Snoke's ship shout out "It's a trap!" when they realize they're gonna get hyperspace-rammed.

I agree that given that he's become more of a meme in recent years, it might have come across as silly to the audience if Ackbar sacrificed himself, and I'm not sure you could have fleshed him out enough in one movie to overcome that for that big moment.

I guess I get that. It just seemed unnecessary to add a new character when there were existing characters that could have performed that role. Hell, even that giant nosed officer woman (no idea what her name is) would have worked. She was at least already in earlier scenes. One of my coworkers joked that the director must have owed Laura Dern a favor or something. Let's create an unnecessary character for her to play just so she can be in the movie.

If they had made it Ackbar, what would've been great (in the cheesiest of possible ways) would've been for someone on the Bridge of Snoke's ship shout out "It's a trap!" when they realize they're gonna get hyperspace-rammed.

That would have been better than a few of the other cheesy jokes that made it in.

If they had made it Ackbar, what would've been great (in the cheesiest of possible ways) would've been for someone on the Bridge of Snoke's ship shout out "It's a trap!" when they realize they're gonna get hyperspace-rammed.

That would have been better than a few of the other cheesy jokes that made it in.

A year out of date, but I watched Rogue One last night. I couldn't figure out why that Cassian fellow kept making me laugh. Then about halfway through I realized that he's Doctor Nick. Short swarthy guy with floppy hair, peach fuzz, and a goofy accent. Couldn't stop seeing it once I figured it out.

As for the movie, not particularly good from a cinema standpoint, but perfectly entertaining and enjoyable. There's something interesting to me about a movie where all of the main characters have to die by the end.

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Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows. E.F. Benson

Haven't followed the thread so i'm not sure what the general opinion is but I enjoyed the movie. The humour felt a bit cheap at times and the story was a bit to much back and forth like someone doing something heroic and suddenly getting cut off, i'm not saying that's a bad thing but I guess i'm not used to that in Star Wars movies.

That shot of Holdo going lightspeed through the dreadnought was awesome.

Luke being a hologram was cool which I wasn't expecting honestly even though it makes sense.

Lightsaber through Snoke...awesome!

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"I said to Nigel Tufnel, 'The door is open if you want to do anything on this record,' but it turns out Nigel has a phobia about doors." /Derek Smalls

There's something interestingsatisfying to me about a movie where all of the main characters have to die by the end.

Fix'd. Thins seem so contrived when all the bad guys die/lose at the end, and most/all the good guys come out no worse than they started.

Well, R1 was plenty contrived enough anyway. But, some of the characters were perfectly likeable and not ones you'd particularly want to see dead. However, it was the fact that they had to die which made it strangely interesting to me. The core characters were all significant enough that had they survived we'd know about them now. Despite being likeable and showing some growth they're by necessity disposable.

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Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows. E.F. Benson

But how is it "contrived?" Just because the overall fate for many of the characters was a foregone conclusion doesn't necessarily make it "contrived." I'm not sure I understand what you guys are saying.

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"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Me personally, I just could not stay interested in Rogue One. Going into a story like that already knowing the plot (they're going to steal the plans for the Death Star and they're disposable characters who are going to die) really killed any desire to stay interested in the characters. There was no emotional weight there for me, basically. No surprises except Vader at the end.