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Existential Meltdowns

First off, I'm fine.

Long time since one of these. I get up, make my tea, drink my tea, the han starts, I sit on the zafu, and almost immediately I feel it coming on. As the han sounds from my computer wind down, the black hole steadily builds. I think, "Man, I'm gonna have to sit through this whole sitting with with this? This is going to be interesting, and shitty." Not interesting enough to keep it from consuming everything.

It thrusts me into an "everything is terribly wrong" panic, and I did indeed attempt to sit in it. Of course, any attempt to quell the horrid sensations during these dark moments is contrived and riddled with pretense. About 3 minutes into sitting, it's full bore; I had to break my zazen.

I DID also have to #2, like really, and I'm actually on the throne running through this dark night of the soul. It had been a long time since I had had, what one might call, an anxiety attack. My heart is up, I am shaky, but my breathing never elevated. As subject to it as I was, I was also able to objectify, be curious about what it was, and welcome it in a sick and twisted way. Nothing was wrong the day before, but I soon felt that change as I was sitting there.

From what I can tell, I am feeling nervous about a lifestyle change. I am going into business myself, and I am learning everything from scratch, essentially. I am rolling the proverbial dice and leaving everything behind. I'll be moving out of the country to focus on the business, because it's more financially feasible. My business niche keeps changing, and everything is very uncertain. There are moments of feeling adventuresome, and moments of stress. There was a slew of other topics of guilt that came up; I was scrutinizing small things that I was doing in my life that may not be in accord with the precepts.

I often welcome these times. I feel they are a cleanse. I sometimes get these sensations just as I'm drifting off to bed, and I have to sit up and let it "take me," then they pass. Episodes I would get during the day would usually be because of stress at work, and they were much longer lasting. An episode during the day could ripple through my week This would happen years ago, and also when I was very young. I would get up in the middle of the night, and run around the house. My parents would wake me up from this sleep walk and it would faaarreeak me out. I started remembering these half awake, half asleep states of panic as my parents added to the panic loop wondering what the hell was going on, and what I was talking about when trying to explain things. As I grew older, I began to be able to realize that I was sleep walking, and somehow could get back to my room and get to sleep. Such a strange sensation to be in two realities at once. These types of sensations match perfectly the sensation of the anxiety attacks.

When I started working in high stress situations, this same sensation would happen in my young adult years about once every 2 or three months during the day. Sometimes I would be at work, and it would take everything I had just to sit there and look normal, and not run out of the place in a frenzy. As my discipline with sitting increased, they lessened significantly. In fact, it's been so long since something like this has happened, I all but forgot what a full fledged attack was like.

So, as I'm sitting on the toilet (heh), I'm trying to work with this thing. I remember "Dark Night of the Soul" saying that all you can really do is hope it won't last too long. So, I sit, allowing it to do it's thing. I plan on not working so I can just be with it, and I clear my schedule for the day. This is something I learned is OK to do. TAKE THE TIME YOU NEED to deal with these things. Everything be damned, this is as also a sickness; take your damned sick day or days!

Part of the problem with these things, is that we don't want to freak OTHER people out by telling them what's going on; fearing that they'll have no idea what you're talking about. I feel that's very unselfish of you, but the truth is, the reason why people might get freaked out about you sharing this crazy info is that THEY TOO get attacks and feelings like this in one form or another (well, most people do), and THEY TOO are afraid to talk about it. In the West you are clinically this or that if you experience these things, you need immediate professional help, and quite probably drugs. However, In many cultures, when one complains of having "demons," they may rely on myth, and bust out the medallions, rituals, and what-have-you to exercise the demons out of you. The community supports you when you're falling into shadow. How nice.

In Zen, we resort not to intellect nor myth; we are in special circumstances indeed. What is this?

So I'm sitting there, letting it do it's thing, being curious and gentle with myself, and it.... wanes after about 5 minutes. Amazing. My heard it still racing, the adrenaline is still shaking me, but my head is wrapped around 'it.' I get back up, reset the timer, and sit back down. I get up after my 30, a little shaken, and resume my day as normal.

I could talk about this phenomenon all day. It's certainly a primary reason why I practice. It's such an acute form of suffering, it's such a razor sharp tool. There are wonderful things that come from these periods in my life. My appreciation for everything shoots right up. I appreciate how St. John of the Cross explains this experience as, and I'm paraphrasing, 'God doing his work' or 'God, aligning you with his word' or whatever the hell. It is a time when my whatever is showing me that what I'm doing is just not working, that change is coming, that new neurons will be formed! And it always comes out of nowhere, just when you think everything is honky-dory. Isn't that how it is? heh. Anyway, time to sit!

Last edited by SyntaxJO; 10-26-2012 at 04:42 AM.
Reason: I edited typos.

It's amazing the suffering we create for ourselves to run away from pain, I'm slowly beginning to learn the same sort of lesson that you're describing. As you say it's better, but difficult, to be just "sitting there, letting it do its thing". Thanks for your post.

The air, water, and food is becoming polluted with chemicals, heavy metals, bacteria and viruses. This causes a lot of anxiety. Purify your environment and whatever you put into your body. Start with the water and air.

In this you have a wonderful gift, and don't let anyone convince you otherwise. You already recognize yourself that this intense state of mind can make things bright and clear, if only for a time. If you can dance with the dragon without being burned, you will never fall into that sorry state of death-in-life that feeds that more subtle sense of "quiet desperation" so endemic in modern industrial cultures. You may also taste some of that same sense of urgency some of our Zen ancestors felt at times they were subsisting on pine needles in a hut on the edge of a cliff. But this same intensity can drag you down into the pit of hell, and destroy you. Only you can know your tolerance in any given instance of the darkness, and when it's time to yell for someone to toss you a ladder and help you climb out.

I would say that if a "panic attack" happens once in awhile, and is not (however unpleasant) severely threatening or interfering with your life, you may wish to just let it pass as you describe. As you wrote:

I'm sitting there, letting it do it's thing, being curious and gentle with myself, and it.... wanes after about 5 minutes. Amazing. My heard it still racing, the adrenaline is still shaking me, but my head is wrapped around 'it.' I get back up, reset the timer, and sit back down. I get up after my 30, a little shaken, and resume my day as normal.

If it happens during a sitting, we sit with it ... breathe through it ... or break off the sitting if too much. All of that is Shikantaza.

We all suffer episodes of panic from time to time. Your being in a life transition, a new business and move, is a time of great stress, insecurity and worry. However, if the panic is to the point of being seriously interfering with life, you may wish to seek professional attention for it. I have written this in the past ...

-----------------

Even if not persistent and disabling "panic attacks" like some of the folks here, almost all of us can speak of times of fear and anxiety and cold sweat ... sometimes great anxiety and "what if's" flooding the head. That is natural, human, hard wired into our animal brains.

As some have said above, when feeling panic, just feel panic. Let it be, it is just what is in that moment.

Try to recall, if you can in the heat of things, that it is merely the staging of mind created theatre that is happening in that moment ... a show on a theatre stage your head is writing ... and just feel panic if panic there is. When in panic, be a Panic-Buddha. When in Panic ... Just Panic Panic Panic!

There is a difference between (1) feeling panic, just letting the panic move through you, accepting that that is how one feels in that moment, and (2) feeling panic, and then adding self-loathing, "wish it were not so" thoughts, resistance, "this is the way it will always be, no escape from this black hole" thoughts, and the like on top of the panic. The latter are extraneous, more fuel poured on the fire. Remove the resistance and the fire itself may lose much of its heat.

If you just accept that your heart is beating 200 beats a minute ... and just allow that fact, relax into it ... good chance the beats will slow down.

As in Ai-ki-do (my wife's a practitioner) ... sometimes we conquer by yielding and letting an attack move past, not by directly resisting head on.

Anyway, that is how I seek to experience the little "theatre scenes" of fear ... and all the other "junk in the attic" of the head like glumness, depression, anger, worry and the like that naturally arise in any human mind. These too shall pass ... open the grip of thoughts and emotions in the head, and they will fall away.

(I do not wish to contradict any expert advice by true specialists on Panic disorders, however. So, do what they advice first.) But the following is my typical response to someone sitting Zazen together with some other issues requiring outside counseling or medication ...

Our emphasis here is on Shikantaza ... which may be said to be "being one" with what ails one, although not necessarily a cure for what ails one. HOWEVER, that "being one" with life ... can relieve much suffering in life. It is a strange thing ... we do not sit Shikantaza to be "better" or to make life "other than as it is" ...

... Yet, in the very stillness of letting life be "as is it" and embracing all of life ... and in dropping the hard borders and divisions between our "self" and the world ... this practice does thereby leave almost all people better ... and often does work an effective cure (or is one helpful part of the cure) ... from depression, stress, addiction, compulsive disorders, eating disorders, anger issues, self loathing ... you name it.

We do emphasize mindfulness of our thoughts and emotions ... but not as a form of meditation. However, our Zazen is the radical non-doing of Shikantaza, and the "mind theatre" and tricks and games of the human mind is something that naturally we also become better able to recognize and avoid from sitting.

... I suspect that Shikantaza ... in its quietness, in the total stillness and acceptance ... would be something helpful with what you describe ...

Zazen is -NOT- a cure for many things ... it will not fix a bad tooth (just allow you to be present with the toothache ... you had better see a dentist, not a Zen teacher), cure cancer (although it may have some healthful effects and make one more attune to the process of chemotherapy and/or dying), etc. Zen practice will not cure your acne on your face, or fix your flat tire. All it will do is let one "be at one, and whole" ... TRULY ONE ... with one's pimples and punctured wheel, accepting and embracing of each, WHOLLY WHOLE with/as each one. There are many psychological problems or psycho/medical problems such as alcoholism that may require other therapies, although Zen can be part of a 12-Step program or such (a few Zen teachers in America with a drinking problem had to seek outside help). My feeling is that some things are probably best handled by medical, psychological or psychiatric treatment, not Zen teachers.

My feeling is that receiving outside treatment, medication AND "just sitting" can all work together.

Walking this path long enough ... we will also come to places where there is NO FEAR at all, no one to be afraid and no object of fear. There is a realm beyond any possible place to fall or be lost. If anyone has been walking this path long enough, they will have some familiarity with such Fearless Place. Have no doubt.

Of course, that does not mean that, in this life, we will always be free of fear for it is hardwired into our little brains. If I see a hungry tiger in my path, I may break into a sweat and run for the hills!

But a funny thing that can result is an experience of feeling fear ... while being totally free of any fear ... ALL AT ONCE. Fear and fearlessness, as one. Most folks who have been on this Zen road for awhile will have an understanding of what I mean by that.

In this you have a wonderful gift, and don't let anyone convince you otherwise. You already recognize yourself that this intense state of mind can make things bright and clear, if only for a time. If you can dance with the dragon without being burned, you will never fall into that sorry state of death-in-life that feeds that more subtle sense of "quiet desperation" so endemic in modern industrial cultures. You may also taste some of that same sense of urgency some of our Zen ancestors felt at times they were subsisting on pine needles in a hut on the edge of a cliff. But this same intensity can drag you down into the pit of hell, and destroy you. Only you can know your tolerance in any given instance of the darkness, and when it's time to yell for someone to toss you a ladder and help you climb out.

I had to respond to this on its own thread. It needs room for the flood of words and rebuttal that may now ensue ...

A panic attack is characterized by four (or more) of the following symptoms occurring abruptly and reaching a peak within 10 minutes: palpitations, accelerated heart rate, sweating, trembling or shaking, sensations of shortness of breath or smothering, feeling of choking, chest pain or discomfort) nausea or abdominal distress, feeling dizzy, unsteady, lightheaded, feelings of unreality or being detached from oneself, fear of losing control or going crazy, fear of dying, numbness or tingling sensations and chills or hot flushes.

A panic attack is a fight or flight response with the accompanied adrenaline release that causes the above symptoms. Fortunately, I have only experienced one or two panic attacks in my lifetime. Most of us have experienced the above symptoms when in a potentially life threatening situation such as being in a car wreck or in a near car wreck, being chased by a big German Shepherd or other event that triggers a big an appropriate release of adrenaline from the adrenal glands given the circumstances. The life of adrenaline is approximately 10 min. so that the body usually calms down on its own after burning up the rocket fuel 30 minutes later. The problem is the suffering in between.

For whatever reason, some of us have the fight or flight response go off without good cause. This causes great distress and suffering. Meditation such as breathing techniques help this disabling condition. As a psychiatrist, patients come to me for an immediate solution to panic attacks which I provide with sedatives or other medications. I find that mindfulness (sitting or walking) complements medications very well. The ideal situation would be no medications at all but this sometimes is not the case. Breath in, breath out, breath in, breath out. The historical Buddha was a fantastic psychologist!

Thank you Jundo and Jon C. Yea, that's pretty much it. Could definitely feel that adrenaline.

I am not so quick to run to a professional about this, however. I feel as though it's the social system and psychological labeling that's set up in the West that causes a lot of these calamities; an over intellectualization (is that a word?) and externalization of everything. I don't need to be reconvinced of Western civilization in order to inevitably be liberated from it, or do I?

For the record, I certainly do not experience panic attacks on a normal basis, nor do I characterize my life by them; though they certainly have influenced it. There certainly was a time in the past when I would have them more often–high pressure situations (mostly perceived that way), unhappy with the lifestyle I was in, visions of a dull and fruitless future–but it wasn't until I realized it was OK to do what I wanted to do that they lessened up all but completely. I learned to stop judging my desires, to listen to the more subtle things showing me whatever I wasn't in accord with. Using this abstraction put me more into the practice, and I continue to refine it. It's my practice, not anyone else's.

Practice has allowed me to take risks in my day to day life–giving up the statues quo, or just being more forgiving to myself–and this ture-to-myselfness, I believe, is the primary reason for the years and years of infrequent 'lows.' And the lows I do get are not very intense, and great for practice. This last intense low was certainly short lived, and that brings me a measurable amount of joy, and has geared me up for life. I respect the lows, I respect that I don't wish to have them, and I remember to allow all over again. I know that I will have them in the future, it is not my goal to erase them, as it once was. If I were having especially long bouts with them, it wasn't until I said 'fuck it,' and allowed the 'whatever' to happen, that they would peter out.

Thank you Jundo and Jon C. Yea, that's pretty much it. Could definitely feel that adrenaline.

I am not so quick to run to a professional about this, however. I feel as though it's the social system and psychological labeling that's set up in the West that causes a lot of these calamities; an over intellectualization (is that a word?) and externalization of everything. I don't need to be reconvinced of Western civilization in order to inevitably be liberated from it, or do I?

This has been my experience at times, but I think it is less the social system and psychological labeling that's the problem and more the individual doctors who treat patients. In other words, some doctors suck and others don't. It took me awhile to find one in the latter category, but I did and am much better for it.

Gassho,
Dosho

Ordained Priest -In-TrainingPlease take what I say with a grain of salt,
especially in matters of the Dharma!

I used to get panic attacks and regular zazen helped a great deal. I even sat through a few 'edge of panic' where I really almost had to jump up and freak out...but I rode it out a few times they subsided. Curiosity beat fear, I guess.

Either way, panic attacks are terrible, and I hope you are able to leave them behind.

Thanks everyone. And thanks for being honest about it. I'm sure there are many people out there suffering from these kinds of things, and are too afraid too speak out about it.

I remember a friend of mine who had the guts to speak out about a sleepless night on Facebook. I relayed my own stories, along with some of my insight into them, and I got an inordinate amount of "likes" on the post, and the discussion got rather large. I thought that was a good sign that there are many, many people out there who experience these things, and appreciate knowing that they're not alone. God forbid anyone knew we weren't completely "together" all the time. That last sentence was sarcasm. That last sentence was obvious. That last sentence was funny

Thanks everyone. And thanks for being honest about it. I'm sure there are many people out there suffering from these kinds of things, and are too afraid too speak out about it.

I remember a friend of mine who had the guts to speak out about a sleepless night on Facebook. I relayed my own stories, along with some of my insight into them, and I got an inordinate amount of "likes" on the post, and the discussion got rather large. I thought that was a good sign that there are many, many people out there who experience these things, and appreciate knowing that they're not alone. God forbid anyone knew we weren't completely "together" all the time. That last sentence was sarcasm. That last sentence was obvious. That last sentence was funny

I do feel as a society we try to quell these unsettling experiences. The DSM manual, used by psychiatry, is adding to its list of pathologies. I agree with Dosho - the medics can be quite divided in their opinions - approaches.

Even so - panic attacks are unpleasant - possibly one of the reasons people don't speak out much. Having got over one it's a relief to forget - not have to think about - re-stimulate the memories.

I think it's basically about riding the inevitable ebb and flow of human experience.

Speaking for myself, an explanation for a panic attack is at some level the fear of death of self either consciously or unconsciously. I perceive self as the thinking mind, the entire physical body or its parts, the wife, the children, the dogs, the cat, the job, the home, the food or my story which comprises all of the above. A perceived threat to any of the above causes me fear and possibly a panic attack. Breathing in and breathing out helps me let go of self and fear of death.

Speaking for myself, an explanation for a panic attack is at some level the fear of death of self either consciously or unconsciously. I perceive self as the thinking mind, the entire physical body or its parts, the wife, the children, the dogs, the cat, the job, the home, the food or my story which comprises all of the above. A perceived threat to any of the above causes me fear and possibly a panic attack. Breathing in and breathing out helps me let go of self and fear of death.

I have had a few and they have mostly involved the fear of dissolution of the part of me related to being a doctor as I identify so much with the story of me which involves being a doctor. Who is John when he is not a doctor?

I have only had one. I wasn't sitting during that period, but I doubt I could have sat through it. Instead I poured a big glass of 95% alcohol (this was in a country where you can buy that stuff in the supermarket!), added some Kahlua and downed it in two gulps. It really does feel like you're about to die (and I don't mean the drink!).

/Pontus

In a spring outside time, flowers bloom on a withered tree;
you ride a jade elephant backwards, chasing the winged dragon-deer;
now as you hide far beyond innumerable peaks--
the white moon, a cool breeze, the dawn of a fortunate day

I have only had one. I wasn't sitting during that period, but I doubt I could have sat through it. Instead I poured a big glass of 95% alcohol (this was in a country where you can buy that stuff in the supermarket!), added some Kahlua and downed it in two gulps. It really does feel like you're about to die (and I don't mean the drink!).

/Pontus

I wish I could do the same and have a stiff drink when very nervous. I would take the first drink and the second drink would take me. I am a recovering alcoholic.

Ah, I see.
Well, I probably wouldn't do that again if I had another (but i can't be sure). And one of the reasons I had the panic attack in the first place was that I had a hangover. I had also been partying to much and sleeping too little.

Good to have you here John,
Pontus

In a spring outside time, flowers bloom on a withered tree;
you ride a jade elephant backwards, chasing the winged dragon-deer;
now as you hide far beyond innumerable peaks--
the white moon, a cool breeze, the dawn of a fortunate day

I have only had one. I wasn't sitting during that period, but I doubt I could have sat through it. Instead I poured a big glass of 95% alcohol (this was in a country where you can buy that stuff in the supermarket!), added some Kahlua and downed it in two gulps. It really does feel like you're about to die (and I don't mean the drink!).

/Pontus

Yes. Mine were not very intellectual at all. I felt my chest was going to explode. It was pants-crapping terror and it left little room for exploration. When I sat zazen through the edge of a few, it was the edge. I remember one zazen moment where I got a little dizzy and almost passed out, but I just dissolved and it passed.

I have only been scared once during Zazen. It was before my Soto days. I was sitting there silently chanting Mu. Then all of a sudden a powerful, dark, booming voice took over the chanting. It continued even after I stopped. That time I sat it out, but I can honestly admit it scared me shitless. I haven't had an auditory hallucination before or after that, during or outside of Zazen.

Gassho,
Pontus

Last edited by Omoi Otoshi; 10-27-2012 at 08:52 PM.

In a spring outside time, flowers bloom on a withered tree;
you ride a jade elephant backwards, chasing the winged dragon-deer;
now as you hide far beyond innumerable peaks--
the white moon, a cool breeze, the dawn of a fortunate day

Yes, a hangover can trigger these things. In fact, a hangover, especially if it's a bad one, will always throw me into a low funk–I lose my sense of well being, and have the feeling that the world is after me–at about 4:00pm the following afternoon; almost like clockwork. This will happen especially if I mix in the wrong progression.

I make it a point never to drink when I'm depressed, concerned about something, or wigged out in some way; this includes being severely hungover. I drink mostly when I'm happy and/or celebrating (I celebrate many big and small victories , and I don't even drink then either.

Ah, I see.
Well, I probably wouldn't do that again if I had another (but i can't be sure). And one of the reasons I had the panic attack in the first place was that I had a hangover. I had also been partying to much and sleeping too little.

Good to have you here John,
Pontus

Alcohol is a sedative. One becomes tranquil while under the influence, but when its effects wear off, anxiety levels increase. Sometime anxiety levels are very high to the point of a panic attack. Thus, a hangover could trigger a panic attack.

SyntaxJO,
just to add what others said: I had panic attacks and have the occasionally but bringing myselv into some (a bit more) balanced state with zazen did help tremendously, just not overnight, I rather talk about years here (for myself). Take care
_()_
Myoku

Are you a programmer? I thought you might be from your name 'SyntaxJO'. Anyway, I ask because I am a programmer, and i get a cold sense of dread at work from time to time. I literally feel the cold throughout my body. This gets brought on by things like uncertainty and fear in terms of why my code is not working the way I want it to work. It happens if i don't know the answer to something, but no one knows the answer. It happens if I'm not particularly busy; I actually start feeling as if I'm useless. These are all tricks of my ego; I love to be the center of attention.

I was also curious if you are a programmer because in talking to other programmers these feelings of dread can be normal. We are supposed to know everything about computers, right? hahaha

In any case, I can completely relate to you on this. Sometimes I feel worthless and down, or afraid and unsure. It's nothing that requires counseling, but I'm much more sensitive to my negative narration with practice. In fact I think that I never really noticed it as much until practice. I think it is a good thing, but it can be hard to go through those periods.