February 16, 2008

Christian Paleontology: Man vs. Earth

I originally was going
to digg an article I read on Tuesday, February 14th, because so many
digg stories are easy little one-paragraph opinion essays on nothing.
Although dinosaurs- the subject- are a bit passe, both in the
scientific and religious realms, the mystery remains technically
unsolved: Where did the dinosaurs go? How come they died, or are
they still alive somewhere? I don't see any around...Ken Ham has a
lot of answers.

There is a community of
people who fester in the shadows of philosophy, who believe that
Christianity and evolutionary science can be reconciled. And what do
you know, they even have space in the .org realm. http www
answersingenesis com (don't bother going to their site) is a group of
self-proclaimed Christian apologetics. I hate the way that Ham's
rhetoric tricks you into thinking that a scholarly article lies ahead
and by the end they're quoting scripture and linking you to endless
resources to promote his quackery. Here's all I can say about his
article, “What Really Happened to the Dinosaurs?”.

“Dinosaurs are used more than almost
anything else to indoctrinate children and adults in the idea of
millions of years of earth history. However, the Bible gives us a
framework for explaining dinosaurs in terms of thousands of years of
history, including the mystery of when they lived and what happened
to them. Two key texts are Genesis 1:24-25 and Job 40:15-24.”

The first sentence
actually hits a bullseye. It's a leading and yet unarguable
presumption that offers no reference other than the collective
conscience. And then he goes on to state an opposition hypothesis.
So far he is doing good work. I note that his textual references at
the bottom are meant to back up his opposition hypothesis but since
the bible is an allegorical, though semi-historical, text I needn't
follow up unless he goes into these texts at length. Yet, I do.

24: Then God said, “Let the earth
bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and
creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”;
and it was so. 25: And God made the beast of the earth according to
its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on
the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

So
far, this isn't doing much for me. Taken as an allegorical
description, I do not see that this verse even hints at an
anti-evolutionary stance. Taken literally, it means that the very
dirt on the earth's crust gave rise to life, but it makes no mention
of a time frame. Maybe the punch line is in the next passage.

15: Behold now behemoth, which I made with
thee; he eateth grass as an ox. 16: Lo now, his strength is in his
loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly. 17: He moveth his
tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together. 18:
His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of
iron. 19: He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can
make his sword to approach unto him. 20: Surely the mountains bring
him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play. 21: He lieth
under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens. 22: The
shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook
compass him about. 23: Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth
not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth. 24: He
taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.

May
I just take this time to say that I very much enjoyed reading that
passage. It is very poetic and romantic, but I am sorry to say that
Job may be talking about a solitary beast, though I would have to
read on to be sure. Interestingly, the moderate position would
indicate that this allegory exaggerates and refers to a class of
beasts that existed when the writer was alive. The fundamentalist
interpretation would have you believe in a monster that pillaged the
countryside in times past, and the liberal/atheist view would be that
an artist felt inspiration to write these words, with or without
intentionally attaching an historical or moral allusion. OK, I've
done my homework. What's next?

“Are
Dinosaurs a Mystery?

Many think
that the existence of dinosaurs and their demise is shrouded in such
mystery that we may never know the truth about where they came from,
when they lived, and what happened to them. However, dinosaurs are
only a mystery if
you accept the evolutionary story of their history.”

Well,
I'm glad that I'm not one of those people. I am not distressed at
the missing links in the theory of evolution, but I do think that
religion is more mysterious than science, as a rule.

“According
to evolutionists: Dinosaurs first evolved around 235 million
years ago, long before man evolved.No
human being ever lived with dinosaurs. Their history is recorded in
the fossil layers on earth, which were deposited over millions of
years. They were so successful as a group of animals that they
eventually ruled the earth. However, around 65 million years ago,
something happened to change all of this—the dinosaurs
disappeared. Most evolutionists believe some sort of cataclysmic
event, such as an asteroid impact, killed them. But many
evolutionists claim that some dinosaurs evolved into birds, and thus
they are not extinct but are flying around us even today.”

Way
to go, champ. You invented a new word. Every time someone says
“evolutionist” instead of “scientist” an
angel gets its wings. You're using words like “cataclysmic”,
so it's obvious that you're targeting an audience above the
intelligence level of those who would swallow the elementary school
line “they were so successful...”. And I could be wrong,
but the from the variety of fossils that prove the dinosaurs were a
diverse “class” of animals, they couldn't all have
evolved into birds. Some may have, and others went extinct.

“There is no mystery surrounding
dinosaurs if you accept the Bible’s totally different account
of dinosaur history.”

I
presume that the italic indicates this is an indisputable fact and
perhaps straight from the big man up above.

“According
to the Bible: Dinosaurs first existed around 6,000 years ago. God
made the dinosaurs, along with the other land animals, on Day 6 of
the Creation Week (Genesis 1:20-25; Genesis 1:31).
Adam and Eve were also made on Day 6—so dinosaurs lived at the
same time as people, not separated by eons of time.”

I'm
not going to quote the passage here because it's too long- if you
don't have basic knowledge of the Christian creation myth you could
look it up, but it basically supposes that the earth...nay, the
entire universe, I believe- was created in 7 days by God and that he
made all the animals in one day. The thought just crossed my mind,
if I were a commercial developer and I were trying to encroach on an
endangered species' habitat, I wouldn't feel bad about it at all
because, as God put all the creatures on earth it is His will to take
them off as He likes. All the creatures that now exist were around
on the first day of creation, this little skyscraper won't make any
difference.

“Dinosaurs
could not have died out before people appeared because dinosaurs had
not previously existed; and death, bloodshed, disease, and suffering
are a result of Adam’s sin (Genesis 1:29-30; Romans 5:12-14;
Corinthians 15:21-22).”

Did
I mention circular reasoning? I'm not going to violate any
copyrights here by posting their pictures, but you can see for
yourself: rational adults can't possibly allow this drivel into their
minds. Adam must have been hot on the biscuit for that forbidden
fruit if he didn't even explore the wilderness enough to get a
scraped knee or a bug bite before he went for the “apple”.
But let's take a look at these quotes...so far he's basically
telling me to read the bible and make my own conclusions.

29: And God said, Behold, I have given you
every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and
every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you
it shall be for meat. 30: And to every beast of the earth, and to
every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the
earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat:
and it was so.

I
haven't heard so much talk about catching meat since the last NRA
conference I attended. Creepeth is
a pretty dope word, I'll have to try to get work that one into my
vocabulary. Seriously, though, I think that violence is bred into
humans. Clearly, since only a very small percentage of people are
vegetarian- only 2% of UK residents, according to the
Food
Standards Agency's Consumer Attitudes to Food Standards survey of
2007-
eating meat is what a lot of people
do habitually and the process necessarily involves violence.

12:
Wherefore,
as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so
death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13:
(For
until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there
is no law. 14:
Nevertheless
death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned
after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of
him that was to come.

This
passage doesn't say anything about Adam's sins raining down upon all
the beasts and other animals- just men. Clearly the writer of this
passage is a proponent of natural moral law. That's great- what does
this have to do with dinosaurs???

21:
For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the
dead. 22: For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made
alive.

So
you're still on the same original point, Ken? We're gonna have to
pick up the pace here a little bit. C'mon, we can get through this
together.

“Representatives
of all the kinds
of air-breathing land animals, including the dinosaur kinds, went
aboard Noah's Ark. All those left outside the Ark died in the
cataclysmic circumstances of the Flood, and many of their remains
became fossils.”

Finally
some substance. Do you know, Mr. Ham, that you've been tantalizing
me this whole time? I was wondering about Noah's ark and just how
that fits into your whole explanation. Thanks for pointing out the
connection there!

“After
the Flood, around 4,300 years ago, the remnant of the land animals,
including dinosaurs, came off the Ark and lived in the present world,
along with people. Because of sin, the judgments of the Curse and the
Flood have greatly changed earth. Post-Flood climatic change, lack of
food, disease, and man’s activities caused many types of
animals to become extinct. The dinosaurs, like many other creatures,
died out. Why the big mystery about dinosaurs?”

Global
warming to a Christian is “Post-Flood climactic change”?!?
To put it in a different way, there is nothing we can do about it.
Powers stronger than me have brainwashed millions of people,
worldwide, to think that we're going down in a blaze of fury because
Adam wanted a tuna sandwich instead of whatever else he had to eat.
It's so far removed from you that you can bring your groceries home
in plastic every time without thinking twice.

At
this point I am nearly convinced that this guy is off his rocker.
This is still definitely in the first ten percent of his article, and
he's already proven his original point. The rest of his lengthy
diatribe will address all the questions that the normally inquisitive
and yet forcefully warped Christian mind will necessarily confront
when traveling down this line of reasoning. Rather than boring you
with specifics, I'll just take you on a tour of his Q&A giving
you highlights from each lecture.

Q:
Why such different views?A:
There are two ways of thinking: A Christian view and a secular view.

What
about other religions?

Q:
Where did the dinosaurs come from?A:
God made them on the 6th day.

You
are repeating yourself.

Q:
What did dinosaurs look like?A:
We don't know. Because we can't know for sure and there have been
mistakes in paleontology, we don't know.

This
section claims there have been debates over whether dinosaurs were
cold or warm blooded. One day people will look back with the same
disdainful attitude toward the debate over whether God exists. When
Armageddon comes and Jesus does not return as promised, that seems to
be the only time people will quit giving money to religious
organizations that promote irresponsible and immoral behavior
worldwide.

Q:
Who discovered dinosaurs?A:
Adam, when he observed them

Do
you even have any text to back that up? Mr. Ham, excuse me, but
where are Adam's memoirs? Genesis doesn't mention dinosaurs
specifically.

Q:
When did dinosaurs live?A:
6,000 years ago

Because
that's what the bible says. What about what Charles Darwin says?
What about what I say? Jesus loves me, this I know, for the Bible
tells me so.

Q:
Are dinosaurs mentioned in the Bible?A:
Yes, but it calls them behemoths, sea monsters, and dragons.

As
I understand, Hobbits have hair on their feet. H. G. Wells' A
Short History of the World posits
that all creatures of myth and legend have historical significance.
For example, our stories of dwarf races originated from
cross-cultural contact between Homo Austrolopithicus and
Homo Neanderthalensis. (To
his credit he was ahead of his time, giving suppositions such as this
and the idea that Australian aborigines have lower intelligence
little viability.)

Q:
Are there historical accounts of dinosaurs?A:
Gilgamesh, Alexander the Great, the Chinese, the English, the Irish,
and one individual Ulysses Aldrovandus all reported fighting or
seeing dinosaurs.

Q:
What do the bones say?A:
We have proof that dinosaurs are not millions of years old. There
have been dinosaur bones found that are not petrified.

I
don't want to dignify this claim with any research or response.

Q:
What did dinosaurs eat and how did they behave?A:
We don't know. You can't tell by their teeth. Before sin, all
animals were vegetarians. We know this by studying their dung.

I
hate how religionists think they can pick and choose from science's
menu of truths. To me you can either accept or reject the foundation
of science, that is...logic.

Q:
Why do we find dinosaur fossils?A:
When the flood came it killed them all at once.

He
feigns at fair treatment each time he answers a question but then he
carefully weaves it back into his circular, illogical argument.

Q:
How did the dinosaurs fit on the ark?A:
God sent infant dinosaurs, and there were only around 50 varieties at
the time.

We've
only found fossils of 50 different dinosaurs? I think that must be
an outright lie.

Q:
Why aren't there any dinosaurs today?A:
We ate them.

That
is the most concrete theory that he suggests.

Q:
Are dinosaurs really extinct?A:
We can't know for sure. There may be some in Africa. Won't
evolutionists be embarrassed if we find one.

Hmm...have
you ever heard of a satellite?

Q:
Birdosaur?A:
The theory that birds descended from dinosaurs is a conspiracy to
brainwash and indoctrinate the minds of Christians. There is no
evidence that suggests the link.

I
didn't know that zealots really get this paranoid.

Q:
Why does it matter?A:
Research into dinosaurs is crucial in proving or disproving the
theory of evolution.

That
is the most sensible thing you've said the whole article, which
you've spent trying desperately to cover up evidence in favor of
evolution. Why? Well, you answer that question beautifully in your
last revelation:

Q:
Millions of years and the gospelA:
It is crucial not to believe in carnivorous, million-year ago
dinosaurs because that would remove the foundation of our religion.
Then we wouldn't be able to persecute and guilt people into doing our
bidding by brainwashing them into submission.

Comments

The dinosaurs are to be found in the houses of Congress. Examples include John McCain and Ted Kennedy, two specimens from the Senate, and John Dingell and John Conyers, two specimens from the House. Apparently, once elected, many of these reptillians enter a sort of biological and political stasis, known to paleocroneyologists as "incumbency" that can allow dinosaurs to live in office for years, centuries, millenia, or eons.

Not sure if you are tongue-in-cheek here, but NO the Rhinoceros is not related in any but a very remote way to dinosaurs. It is a MAMMAL, the line to which diverged from ancestors to dinosaurs in the late Permian [~250 million years ago]. They are considered to be in the same order as horses.

JibJabba:
No, the rhinos aren't any close relation of the dinos. But the rhinoceros does seem like a pretty good candidate for being the "behemoth" described in the Genesis quote... that, or maybe an elephant or hippopotamus.

Wow! Your bias and lack of knowledge really are exposed. But i suppose you should score points for being willing to expose them for the whole world to see. It's pretty arrogant to put forth these unsubstantiated claims, most of which make no sense. Ham's statement's are all pretty sound and you failed to discredit any of them in any real way. You make the assertion the Bible is an allegorical work inspite of the plethora of evidence that it is speaking of real historical people and events in space/time history; and then you ask your audience to make the assumption with you in the very next paragraph without giving any evidence for your claim that it is what you say. It is true there are allegories, as well as metaphores and other types of communication in the Bible, but we need to be more careful to allow the Bible to say what it is really saying and not just write something off as allegory just because it doesn't square with what we already believe to be true about the way things are.

"Taken literally, it means that the very dirt on the earth's crust gave rise to life...", Exactly!! He is God after all. Is it so unbelievable that after having spoken the entire universe into existence out of nothing over a few days, we have dirt to create from that He has only just spoken into existence, and from that dust comes forth the animals? Why should it be any more difficult for this creative Being to create living creatures from the dust of the earth? Not such a huge task for an apparently inexhuastive Mind. And not such a huge idea for us to wrap our little brains around after all, is it. And by the way, isn't that what evolution teaches anyway? It only takes a few more years (millions and millions and millions and millions and millions) with evolution.

Ham said, "...many evolutionists claim that some dinosaurs evolved into birds...". And you said, "they couldn't all have evolved into birds." Notice the word some, then notice the word all. Who is the one who doesn't have their facts straight here? The claim was never made that all evolved into birds.

"...as God put all the creatures on earth it is His will to take them off as He likes. All the creatures that now exist were around on the first day of creation, this little skyscraper won't make any difference." You may be closer to believing God than you realize.

Now, this bit about vegetarians is too long to quote, but it really bothers me because it's here where i think you're really getting deceptive; and here's why i think so. You are quoting the Scriptures and then critiquing Ham's assertions, so you are apparently someone who is knowledgeable about the Bible. So you quote the passage in the creation week about the fruits and vegetables being provided for our meat, then comment on how most people today are not vegetarians. But you know that most of your audience is not going to be aware that God gave man the animals to eat after the Flood, and so your point about vegetarians in this day and age is mute. It is totally unfair, biased and deceptive of you.

If you're going to claim that Ham and other Christians don't have the truth, at least do it honestly, and for that matter, factually.

I could probably find more on your page to write about, but what for? I've already discredited you as either being, at best, mistaken, or, at worst, a fraud. Only you know what your intentions were.

I will say this however:

" When Armageddon comes and Jesus does not return as promised...". Isn't it interesting how, although it's only an allegory, and you say you don't believe..., "When Armageddon comes", ...you obviously really do.

MAN VS. WILD host, author and seasoned adventurer Bear Grylls began a lifetime of exploration at an early age. Bear grew up on the Isle of Wight, and as a young boy would go mountain climbing with his father.

Body fossils and trace fossils are the principal types of evidence about ancient life, and geochemical evidence has helped to decipher the evolution of life before there were organisms large enough to leave fossils.

Use of all these techniques has enabled paleontologists to discover much of the evolutionary history of life, almost all the way back to when Earth became capable of supporting life, about 3,800 million years ago. For about half of that time the only life was single-celled micro-organisms, mostly in microbial mats that formed ecosystems only a few millimeters thick