The fact is we don't need a Logo for the Council, we don't need to "Advertise" the Council. Do we have a choice of which Council we pay our rates to?.

That seems a bit foolish. City councils take thousands of dollars off people every year, in return for providing services. If you're going to make people aware of what they get for their rates, branding all those things with your logo is the best and easiest way to do it.

The idea that logos are only for organisations that are selling things misses the point.

Well I never claimed the 2nd or 3rd. But logos are very useful tools for an organisation that provides services, particularly a compulsory service like those funded by rates. Most people couldn't list all the services that their city council provides. Putting a recognisable city council logo on all those services helps address that. If you want buy in to a community organisation, people should know what it provides.

Having a new logo for a newly mashed together city council is important. Currently all those services and buildings will have any one of half a dozen different identities on them. They all will need to be changed at some stage, so the new identity needs to be logo-ised before that happens.

Yeah it's nice if people can recognize that service x is actually provided by the council, but dear god first you have to get service x working and have money for it. That is the point.

Because clearly it's a zero sum game. All money for providing quality services by the Auckland Council is being redirected to a $10,000 logo competition.

Wonderful design Angus. Shall we say "Minimalist"?I have to agree with most of what Bart said for this main reason.Design is about the balance between form and function, there is nothing good about a great looking machine that is awkward to use or functions badly for the sake of its looks. The utilitarian school of design had its place when utilitarianism was the fashion, PoMo is the current "Rasin De Turd" as they say in confused and pretentious circles of jerks, hence the Cat's Bum of Telecom.And that is the problem, fashion dictates taste, a self fulfilling disaster. As soon as we get used to identifying an entity by its symbol or logo we have some smart arse telling us that PoPoMo is De Rigueur and we are "falling behind in terms of current thinking and practice" squillions of megabucks later we are reintroduced to Neo-Clasicism and are forced to reinvent the wheel of fortune cookies or whatever. All we really need, as has been said before, is "Auckland Council" in a simple, readable and memorable font but if we want to play around here is an idea I think our resident Lizard would love.Nu Council Lack Ad

those works need experienced, professional, trained experts? Just like graphic design actually.

Possibly nothing is quite as funny as a graphic designer or an information architect or whatever who feels professionally slighted by this sort of idiocy. ;)

Yes, someone's being a wee bit precious here.

There's lots of examples of people who are not particularly qualified to do something having a crack at it. I'm thinking...Michael Cullen, running a country's finances.

There is a long-standing tradition for punters to provide artwork for the covers of the White Pages. You don't get professional artists forming picket lines and demanding that only they are qualified to provide said artistry.

Perhaps an essential quality for a good designer would be a sense of humour?

Not even a designer would suggest that a logo is going to address all Auckland's ills. However, if the city is saying "we want a logo", in the same way as say "we want a new parking building", or "a waterfront promenade", then why not get a pro to do it properly? Whether the city 'needs' a logo or not is a different discussion...but if the city decides it does, then a good designer will simply say "okay, so what are the requirements... what must the logo attempt to do, for whom and to whom?" Perhaps that's the area best left for public engagement: developing the brief.Something as diverse as a city is a pretty tough assignment as well, and no matter what is created, by whomever does it, the outcome will be derided and criticised... by many in this country (and PA forum) who seem to take a considerable amount of glee in criticising almost everything.One thing that NZers often take pride in is our creative community and how both art and design is well developed across a broad spectrum of amateur and professional forms. However, this needs better care and better regard from Auckland city, in this and other aspects... especially given their poor recent record in managing creative projects.Michael Holt http://www.gardyneholt.co.nz

There's lots of examples of people who are not particularly qualified to do something having a crack at it.

These people are called amateurs. When they get good at the thing they're having a crack at, they can become professionals. This is not to say an amateur will necessarily do a worse job than a professional, but experience and qualifications aren't just long words.

This anti-artistry has tinges of the anti-intellectual movement to it. "What do the experts know? Bah, I could do that!"