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Also don't forget the guy that some fans want canned, won a Superbowl with that same Franchise Qb missing the first4 games on suspension. Don't get me wrong I'm not downing Ben but they both need each other to be successful.

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Originally Posted by Steelhere10

I keep hearing Franchise QB this and that from 09 but that same franchise QB was 80% of the reason we missed the playoffs. Last year 0-4 was almost directly his fault with plenty of TO, the same can also be said when he came back from injury the second half two seasons ago. So I don't see the reason he keep saying how many losing season s with a Franchise Qb. But to answer you question 2 more sub par seasons and then you pull the trigger.

He has also had a band of misfits running the ball, leading to no threat, and defenses teeing off on him

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Originally Posted by steelz09

Exactly, and I personally don't want to go down the same road that the Cowboys have. Apparently, Ovi and Steelhero have no problem with being a mirror of this Cowboys generation of losers. They would rather continue having 8-8 seasons than lose the HC that they have an overbearing man crush with.

Actually, I think Jones might have learned his lesson when he fired Chan Gailey after two 8-8 seasons...the Cowboys pretty much have not recovered to this day...

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Originally Posted by papillon

If I believe I have the right guy for the job I can live with more than two that's for sure. At some point my patience may run out, but I can't put a number on it, because it hasn't happened and I don't know the circumstances under which they go 8-8 year after year and that could potentially make a difference. Even though the Steelers didn't make the playoffs last year it isn't like they mailed it in, so as long as the team is playing hard you live with it until you can improve the roster. Only fans and mediots that don't like Tomlin believe that there was dissension in the locker room, Tomlin lost the team, lacked discipline, etc.

If the Steelers would let Tomlin go as many would like he'd be unemployed for 5 minutes. He's respected around the league by peers, players and management, Mike Tomlin has a job in the NFL until he says he doesn't want one, IMO and I hope it's with the Steelers.

Pappy

Sorry but that's another cop out. You can blame a couple injuries, blame OC/DC/OL, etc but at the end of the day... those excuses only go so far and for so many years. Rarely, are circumstances perfect. The coaches, like the players, need to fight thru adversity. To say otherwise is just making excuses.

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Ovi - How long can Dick Lebeau produce a middle-of-the-road ranked defense before you want him to canned? You shouldn't have any problems answering that question since you bitch and moan about him just about as much as Crash did about Art Rooney II.

Funny, how you don't have the guts to answer a simple question that requires a simple question. Sounds like you would be content with Tomlin producing 8-8 teams for the next 20 years because of your man crush.

The difference is... with me, I can like someone personally and still fire them because they don't get the job done. You obviously wouldn't be able to handle that.

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Originally Posted by Steelhere10

I keep hearing Franchise QB this and that from 09 but that same franchise QB was 80% of the reason we missed the playoffs. Last year 0-4 was almost directly his fault with plenty of TO, the same can also be said when he came back from injury the second half two seasons ago. So I don't see the reason he keep saying how many losing season s with a Franchise Qb. But to answer you question 2 more sub par seasons and then you pull the trigger.

Im with you steel. Looking back at even the superbowl against GB.. I look at that last minute drive and the piss poor clock management... the indecisiveness on Ben's part...

Then we begin the steady digression... 12-4... and the two 8-8's.. seems like the year before last, Ben made two terrible decisions during the last 2 games of the year.. both of which resulted in turnovers that sealed our fate, and kept us out of the playoffs.

I also agree that 2 more sub par seasons (with what appears to be all of the right pieces in place) will have Tomlin on the hot seat.

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Im with you steel. Looking back at even the superbowl against GB.. I look at that last minute drive and the piss poor clock management... the indecisiveness on Ben's part...

Then we begin the steady digression... 12-4... and the two 8-8's.. seems like the year before last, Ben made two terrible decisions during the last 2 games of the year.. both of which resulted in turnovers that sealed our fate, and kept us out of the playoffs.

I also agree that 2 more sub par seasons (with what appears to be all of the right pieces in place) will have Tomlin on the hot seat.

How can we say all the right pieces are in place?
Cornerback - aging vet in decline and unproven young guy with a grinder as the nickle
Safety - The pieces are in place, except depth, not sure what we have in Shamarko
Linebacker - Timmons is the only proven player, Worilds needs to be good for more than 8 games a year and Jones and Shazier have a combined 1 year of experience.
DL - Heyward is proven, Tuitt is a rookie, McClendon is a to be determined

Ben - the Steelers are good
RB - Bell looks good, Blount has shown spurts , Archer is a rookie
WR - Brown and then what?
TE - The Steelers are good with Miller, the rest are ??
OL - Probably the most NFL ready group on the team
STs - Poor last year

As fans we like to think the pieces are in place, but, IMO, there are more questions than answers. The good news is Ben is healthy.

Pappy

The referee said that you hit Brian Sipe too hard. Did you hit him too hard?
I hit him as hard as I could - Jack Lambert

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The reason I say two more years are
1)the roster TO started three years ago
2)you give the new players a year to get accustomed playing in the NFL SO one more draft with the talent being replaced and the team must improve from a 8-8 roster by another two years. But I have no doubt in my mind that the team will. But if it makes09 happy I just gave him a timetable.

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Originally Posted by papillon

How can we say all the right pieces are in place?
Cornerback - aging vet in decline and unproven young guy with a grinder as the nickle
Safety - The pieces are in place, except depth, not sure what we have in Shamarko
Linebacker - Timmons is the only proven player, Worilds needs to be good for more than 8 games a year and Jones and Shazier have a combined 1 year of experience.
DL - Heyward is proven, Tuitt is a rookie, McClendon is a to be determined

Ben - the Steelers are good
RB - Bell looks good, Blount has shown spurts , Archer is a rookie
WR - Brown and then what?
TE - The Steelers are good with Miller, the rest are ??
OL - Probably the most NFL ready group on the team
STs - Poor last year

As fans we like to think the pieces are in place, but, IMO, there are more questions than answers. The good news is Ben is healthy.

Pappy

I was talking about the pieces "Offensively" papp... relative to Ben. Sorry, I should have clarified those remarks... The RB and WR cores will be fine this year.