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I am a "former" piano player. I say "former" because it's been a while - but I'm anxious to get my groove back...I want a digital piano because I live in a townhouse.I can put on headphones and nobody can hear me. Want a baby grand because it's going to go in my living room. No offence to anyone here but I've been told that piano salespeople can be like used car salesmen, so I have questions before I go to the piano store and try one out...

What is reasonable price range and a good name brand for a decent digital baby grand?

Since it is digital, what can I expect in terms of built-in obsolescence? Like computers, I realize these things can become out of date.

What is up with the case? If there are no strings, is there any accoustic reason at all for the case on a baby grand digital or is it just for show?

Would I be better off using the gizmo that silences the sound when you want it to on a regular piano? I am interested in composing,recording, and playing around with CDs etc but is it really worth it?

As a final note...as much as I wish I did, I don't have eleven grand to spend on a piano or I'd probably opt for a real baby grand! HELP!Thanks in advance for your help!

You don't REALLY want a digital baby grand. It isn't the money...it's the space they take up, and the slightly dorky look they impart to a room. May I suggest that you look into cabinet digital pianos. They still look like furniture, use the space efficiently, and don't scream "poseur."

Thank you tenders but I wasn't asking for your approval. I was asking for your advice. I have plenty of room to be a "poseur"and I do not fancy an upright, sorry. I am not a beginning player. (Geesh! I thought a piano forum would be a gentle place to seek assistance....!)

I would assume that the half-open lid in these digital grands are more for aesthetic/design purposes to truly make it look like an acoustic grand (although we know it isn't of course). But I would also think that the stereo speakers are "housed" in what normally would be the area for the soundboard and strings in a real-acoustic grand.

Generally speaking, the more features (e.g. additional instrument tones, built-in track sequencers, larger LCD screens, storage capability, use of actual wood parts for the white keys, etc.), the more expensive these digitals would become.

I'd say any of the Big Three: Kawai, Roland or Yamaha digital grands would be a good choice.

Lastly, before you guys start arguing, I think tenders was referring to the digital grand piano as "poseur" not you do-re-me...so...

Appreciate the constructive advice Beo. I realize, of course, that it is preferable to be a purist but circumstances dictate that a digital version is probably the best option for me. Plus, I have a few tunes of my own going on in this old head and I play a lot by ear. Don't want anyone to hear it! I'll look into the models you've quoted here and try 'em out.

The higher end Yamaha digital in the grand case (GCP1000) has an actual soundboard (driven by speakers of course), but that's the only model I know of that really takes advantage of the additional space afforded by the grand case (i.e. the case is for aesthetics only).

Obsolescence is in the eye of the beholder. While it's certainly true that every year more features are added and they generally trend towards being more "acoustic like", there is no reason why a decent digital purchased today should not last you for a significant number of years depending on your abilities and your "pickiness". But it's like anything else, you have to find your sweet spot of price vs performance (i.e. you purchase a higher end model with the wooden keys and fancy sound effects and it will theoretically last "longer" than a cheaper model whose action is already a couple of generations behind). You might be perfectly happy with how the piano sounds and feels for quite a while.

Is a silent upright better? Only you can decide if that's the case (some folks like having a real piano feel but you still have the extra weight and the tunings, etc of an acoustic). Same goes for Yamaha vs Kawai vs Roland, only you can tell which sound/action suits your particular taste (you'll get lovers/detractors of all models here).

Don't know about price as I've never seriously looked at any of the models in the grand cabinets. Again, you'll have to decide what features/capabilities you are willing to give up to have the cabinet. You should simply go try as many as you can out and start narrowing it down to which brands/models/features/price that you are most interested in. You can then start doing more specific price related searching.

BTW, I think tenders point is that you are going to pay a premium for the grand cabinet with no real technical/acoustic benefits. A premium that might be better spent on a more capable piano (or even going towards saving for an acoustic later on). Looking forward, you may want to consider if it's easier or harder to sell a digital in a grand cabinet. Or if you decide that you want to keep the digital after purchasing an acoustic (which many folks do), the space considerations of having two grand shaped/sized pianos.

BTW, I think tenders point is that you are going to pay a premium for the grand cabinet with no real technical/acoustic benefits. A premium that might be better spent on a more capable piano (or even going towards saving for an acoustic later on).

Originally posted by Bob Newbie: "Supposedly" the grand cabinet takes advantage of the space by using more powerful speakers and the placement of such in the grand case..so in effect the money spent is for the bigger speakers.. [/b]

That may be the case on some of the pianos, but you can check for instance the Yamaha CVP line. The CVP309 and CVP309GP (console and grand respectively) have the exact same speaker/amp complement. Now it can certainly be the case that they have different speaker enclosures with the grand taking advantage of the extra space to create more bass, but I would assume if that were the case, they would have mentioned it. One note, if you examine the newer CVP4xx series, you'll notice that the "bottom" of the piano extends down a fair way and that they have speakers placed there. I suspect that that area is specifically designed as a speaker enclosure mitigating any space benefits of a "mini grand" design.

Again, that's just for the Yamaha's, don't know about Roland/Kawai. In either case, I would suspect that any difference would be minimal for the price paid. Bottom line is that the OP needs to go and listen to determine if there is any tangible benefit to the grand cased pianos. If they can hear it and it matters then they should feel free to spend the money. Then again we won't talk about how little it matters if you are spending the majority of time listening through headphones anyway

I have the CGP-1000 and really enjoy it. I didn't know am a "poseur." I thought I had opted for the convenience of no twice-annual tuning, no need to humidify, ability to use headphones and not disturb others, ability to record my performances easily (USB thumb drive), a built in player piano function, internet connectivity for lessons at $9.95 per 3 months, internet connectivity for downloading new music for the player piano, and the best (as of March 2008) features available on a digital piano.

While I awaited my CGP-1000 for 6 weeks, the dealer loaned me a brand new (out of the box at my house) CVP-309GP. A bit smaller, and a lot less expensive, digital piano of the generation just preceding the CGP-1000. I enjoyed the heck out of the CVP-309GP and I don't know that these old poseur ears can tell the difference from the CGP-1000. I'll bet you can get the CVP309GP for well under $9,000 these days. I'd recommend it as a good choice.

There are digital baby grands ranging inprice from less than $1000, apparently, tomore than $30,000--the $30,000 one is a playerpiano that will apparently take any musicCD or mp3 file and play it, no matter whatkind of music it is.

A digital baby grand is the same as a console digital--that is, essentiallya computer with a keyboard and speakers--only the case is different. The grandcase is apparently only for show and doesn't givean acoustical benefit like on an acousticgrand.

Since all digitals pianos are essentiallycomputers with a keyboard and speakers,like pc's there is not going to be thatmuch difference in performance betweeninexpensive ones and expensive ones.Even the least expensive digital pianoshave sound and action modeled aftera concert grand, so they'll be prettygood. Most people end up buying a digitalin the $1000-5000 price range, but it'snot necessary to go even that high, inmy opinion, because you can get a goodone for less than $1000. My current digitalwas $900, bought sight-unseen online, andI use it to work on the most difficultclassical repertoire, and it serves finefor that purpose. Thus, I would see noproblem with buying a digital babygrand for less than $1000. And sinceall weighted-key digital pianos givegrand piano-like performance, you cannotreally outgrow even an inexpensive one,since you can't outgrow a grand piano-likeinstrument. As far back as the 1980'sthere were already good weighted-keydigital pianos that gave grand piano-likeperformance, and if you have one fromthat era, it will perform much liketoday's digital pianos.

There are acoustic uprights today thathave a middle pedal that shifts a pieceof felt over the strings so that youcan play with a muffled sound, but playinglike that is very unnatural and unsatisfying.There is also a so-called silent uprightthat has the circuitry of a digital pianostuffed into the interior. When you want to play silently the hammers areblocked from hitting the strings andthen operate the digital circuits likeon a regular digital piano--but you can only play with headphones in this silentmode. These are also expensive, around$9000, and what you have is essentiallya digital piano, so one might questionthe need for one of these when you canjust buy a digital piano for much less.

Also, since digital pianos are essentiallycomputers with a keyboard and speakers,like pc's they are easy to assemble andthus small companies can produce pianosthat are just as good as those from thebig manfacturers. And buying them sight-unseen online should not be a problem.

originally posted by Gyro: And buying them sight-unseen online should not be a problem.[/b]

I agree with some of Gyro's observations but disagree with the above statement, that is exactly what I did when I bought my first DP and it proved to be a nail. If, like me, you are a novice pianist and not accustomed to judging the differences and nuances of DP's, or Acoustic Pianos, my best advice is to choose from the big makes, Yamaha, Roland, Kawai and now Casio, none of those make bad pianos but some models, from each manufacturers range, will be better than others...usually depending on price. Which ever model you are interested in there will usually be a PW Forum member who has first hand knowledge of it, so ask here.

Thank you all, for such good and obviously experienced, advice! I sorely miss my old REAL piano of "yesteryear", sold years ago when the parents moved out of the "family homestead"!

From what I've read here, there probably isn't much advantage to having a "baby grand" configuration on a digital - except for speaker space?... It's all mostly for show then, am I right? ( I was afraid of that!) Oh, well, "poseur" or not, I still like the look! I also like the features you get with this technology and I just don't want to see an upright in my living/dining room area... Does this make me a real neophyte? Oh well...!!!

See, I'm a teacher. Over the years, kids have brought in digital keyboards for presentations etc.. I've tried 'em and, strictly from a piano standpoint,I've found 'em kind of, ah well, forgive me... but cheesy! I don't necessarily need to have the Bosanova or the Cha-cha-cha with my Haydn! I would like, however, to have an instrument I can play in peace without anyone else hearing it. I want to be able to record my ideas before they're gone (or melted into other people's tunes I hear in my head!).

I'm recently hooked on iMac's "Garage Band" and this kind of digital technology is slowly becoming familiar to me. I think what I'm hearing from everyone here is, you have to try it out and decide for yourself, so that's what I'm going to do!

Can I get back to you on it? I'm really stoked about this! Dying to get back to my beloved piano, now that school is out here in the TO. Wish me luck and again...thanks to all of you!

I was dead set against a digital piano until I tried the Casio Privia Line of digital pianos . I found the built in speaker was not Hi-fi as you would expect from a stereo. However, I tried a pair of headphones and was very impressed. And given the right sound system, the instrument would sound even better. This will be my piano for a while until I can get a grand and I put that on the back burner for a while.

- Mark

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