Yeah, so aside from this war of words, can anyone please answer my question... is this actually a MOTUC buck (i.e., shared parts) or does it just look like one? Thanks.

August 12, 2012, 07:15pm

Larry Waters

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisware

This is getting tiresome, so I will address you one last time, probably because I have a Don Quixote complex, then I will let you have the last word, which I'm sure will be filled with awesomeness.

No, you did not say that my opinion wasn't worth something well thought out. You said your response would be unacceptable to the mods. Not even remotely the same thing.

Who's clever now? Hmm...I will go with "not you." :hmgrin:

Now Dark Knight is important, too? Whatever you say, dude.

And I see now you feel empowered to speak for tons of fans and creators. All of whom comprise the tiny little intellectually backward, emotionally retarded world of mainstream super-hero comics. They couldn't ask for a better ambassador. And exactly what truth are they all seeing? Even the hacks who are currently working on the latest continuity reboot don't delude themselves into thinking that Frank Miller is considered a serious author by anyone with a high school diploma or a library card.

It influenced the entire industry? Not just super-heroes? Really? Yeah, Daniel Clowes, Jaime Hernandez, Chris Ware...the Dark Knight influence is so obvious I'm not sure how I missed it. :hmlol:

Quote:

Originally Posted by hauke

O.k. you like reading smart stuff we get it. Still us dumb and stupid superhero readers are in the majority. Sorry to tell you but influence is as much about size as it is about quality. So guys like Daniel Clowes, Jaime Hernandez, Chris Ware influence you and your small group of library card owners more then the TDKR? Good for you. But saying those guys had a larger influence on comics is like saying some small independend SF film had a bigger influence on science fiction movies then Star Wars. Oh by the way you are posting on a toyboard discussing a superhero comic. If you are so into all that smart and meaningful stuff wouldn't it be better if you spend your time on a Nobel price for literature message board or something like that?

What's really great is how nobody here seems to agree with you.

A comic book shop owner (or is it former) that looks down his nose at the Great Unwashed because we don't share his taste?

Awesome.

Re: The Dark Knight Returns.... I'm right. And since this wonderful country allows freedoms of all kinds, you're free to be just as wrong as you please.

Thats cool and all...I just never really cared about the whole scale thing...I still don't.

Batman does not live in the MOTUC Universe.

However, I think it's neat that he is using some shared parts! For DKR & MOTUC fans this should be awesome news...why does it matter what you think about Frank Miller for. I would think the only disagrement would be about wether or not the actual toy is cool or not...

And with that I do hereby call that Batman, Bat-Or Heroic Nighttime Vigilante.

August 12, 2012, 09:08pm

hauke

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisware

Your statement that a site like this one is an inappropriate forum in which to discuss what makes something great art is demeaning to everyone who posts here.

Well I was not the one saying stuff like "intellectually backward, emotionally retarded world of mainstream super-hero comics" which is way more demeaning to everyone who reads that stuff. I was just wondering why you are discussing these things if they are for the "intellectually backward, emotionally retarded" only. This suggest to me that you would rather talk to more intelligent people who do not read super hero comics or collect toys which you obviously find "intellectually backward, emotionally retarded". I did not mean in any way to insult anyone who likes comics, toys or reads this forum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisware

Your entire tone is defensive and belligerent. I'm sorry if it bothers you that someone doesn't think Frank Miller is a genius, and actually has adult reading tastes, but that's not my problem.

Up to that point I was actually hoping to simply state my arguments that I think TDKR had a huge impact on the rather large superhero comic industry and therefore a large impact on the whole comic industry as well. I never said I think Miller was a genius. In fact I do not like most of his recent output and very sadly that has diminished my opinion of TDKR a little bit as well. But that does not change the fact that at its time it was quite relevant and a game changer in its industry. It is not the greatest piece of literature ever. But it is not as simple and irrelevant as you try to make it either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisware

And it has nothing to do with "dumb super-heroes" or elitism. Nolan's trilogy is brilliant. Miller's Dark Knight isn't.

I would believe you if not for the "intellectually backward, emotionally retarded world of mainstream super-hero comics" comment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCreviews4628

That sounds like a comeback Jerry Springer contestants would come up with.

Sorry that might have sounded meaner then it was meant to be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phantom1592

I loved the issue one of Dark knight returns... the whole 'old washed up batman' putting the suit on and going back in one last time...'
They were both influence... however, I don';t think it was a GOOD influence. It's an effect that is as far reaching as MOTUC... It turned 'kids stuff' into 'Adult stuff'. And I REALLY Hate that...

While I do like a more dark and gritty take on things that are normally considered kids stuff I know where you are coming from. I sometimes miss the good old days when comics were more about simple adventures then all the dark stuff and the violence. I am sometimes sad to see how easy superheroes kill these days. I do not want the dark stuff to go away but I would welcome some comic series that target kids again.

August 12, 2012, 10:05pm

wyldman11

I think people are forgetting that Dennis O'Neil and Neal Adams had already started putting Batman to his more darker roots in the 70s. The created Ra's al Ghul, and turned the Joker back into a homicidial maniac. They are the ones who also did similar with Green Lantern and Green Arrow, with Speedy becoming a heroin addict.

While Dark Knight Returns is influential on many comic writers, and the super hero medium it doesn't live in a bubble that goes Adam West campy Batman then Dark Knight Rises twenty years later.

August 12, 2012, 10:27pm

hauke

Quote:

Originally Posted by wyldman11

I think people are forgetting that Dennis O'Neil and Neal Adams had already started putting Batman to his more darker roots in the 70s. The created Ra's al Ghul, and turned the Joker back into a homicidial maniac. They are the ones who also did similar with Green Lantern and Green Arrow, with Speedy becoming a heroin addict.

While Dark Knight Returns is influential on many comic writers, and the super hero medium it doesn't live in a bubble that goes Adam West campy Batman then Dark Knight Rises twenty years later.

Agreed. I see Watchmen and TDKR as the culmination or major milestones of a trend that started way earlier by many other people and has dominated super-hero comics ever since.

If they used parts of the buck I would imagine it to be in scale with MOTUC.

August 12, 2012, 11:28pm

SCB

Batman is awesome. Love the head sculpt and new details on the costume. Superman is kind of the opposite. Don't like the design, only got him because Mattel is going to complete the new team and Supes should not be missing. Red Robin I've wanted forever. He's too big to work for Tim, but just right for a stand in for Jason.

Alan Moore did more for Batman than Frank Miller did. Plus, Miller revealed to the world he's little more than a selfish, spoiled brat who thinks poor people are lazy, so I couldn't care about him or his overrated comics.

Well most people would agree that Frank Miller today isn't the same person he was 26 years ago. Some might say he's lost his mind. But that's just what they're saying on the streets.:skwink:

August 13, 2012, 09:14am

hauke

Alan Moore's Killing Joke is a great comic and with establishing a new more complex background for the Joker and crippling Barbara Gordon it had probably a larger influence on Batmans continuity then the TDKR. When it comes to the overall impact on comic industry I would say TDKR is a little bit ahead of the Killing Joke. But that is just my opinion.
I do not like Frank Millers personal views on politics and society either but that can probably be said about a lot of artists/directors/writers/actors/musicians whose work I enjoy. I try to judge the work regardless of personal feelings for its creator whenever possible.

August 13, 2012, 09:24am

Brian Ozone

Quote:

Originally Posted by hauke

Alan Moore's Killing Joke is a great comic and with establishing a new more complex background for the Joker and crippling Barbara Gordon it had probably a larger influence on Batmans continuity then the TDKR. When it comes to the overall impact on comic industry I would say TDKR is a little bit ahead of the Killing Joke. But that is just my opinion.
I do not like Frank Millers personal views on politics and society either but that can probably be said about a lot of artists/directors/writers/actors/musicians whose work I enjoy. I try to judge the work regardless of personal feelings for its creator whenever possible.

Killing joke as awesome. I like that they kinda used that in the birds of prey show storyline.

I really wonder if this batman will have a removale head. And to me it's looks a lot more parts are used then they are saying. That definitely a torso as well.

August 13, 2012, 10:09am

hauke

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Ozone

Killing joke as awesome. I like that they kinda used that in the birds of prey show storyline.

I really wonder if this batman will have a removale head. And to me it's looks a lot more parts are used then they are saying. That definitely a torso as well.

I am not sure about that. At least the abs sections seems to be different since it does not have a navel. The upper sections seems to have different muscles along the ribs as well as far as I can tell. They seem to be pretty similar though.

August 13, 2012, 01:45pm

TrimmTrabb

Now that it's been clarified that they can use MOTUC bits for DCUC, I can't understand why they wouldn't have done so for Atrocitus. He seems like the perfect candidate!
Maybe this figure is meant to be Atkins Diet Power Atrocitus. :sklol:

since Motuc buck has been used for a Batman figure, can other series buck be used for slimmer character like Mantenna, 200x adam, 200x Mer-Man, Lizard Man, Modulok and all those characters who are actually smaller the standard body in order to cut the costs and focus the resource to the expensive sculpting costs and ?

I actually checked with the DC team. This is not a Batman fig using the MOTU buck. It is in "scale" to MOTUC (in order to create that unique one time Dark Knight Returns look) but the only MOTUC part it uses is the shoulders. All other parts are brand new.

We were happy to loan the use of the shoulders as a one time help for the DC team, but as always, MOTU classics parts will only be used on MOTUC toys.