whats most disappointing is bj penn really should still be in the discussion of p4p with silva/gsp.. his first fight with gsp, if he didnt gas he had that, their 2nd fight though was gsp all day. but his 2nd hughes fight? he had that first round, came back in the 2nd to take it, then completely gassed..

its sad that his "what if" arguments are because of cardio of all things

im still blown away he could stop hughes takedowns and give him problems on the ground but frankie edgar tossed him around.. blows my mind, frankie legitimately beat em though no cardio issue really this 2nd time around

surprised hughes isnt in the p4p talk much though, his record is unreal in mma

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BJ broke a rib in that 2nd hughes fight, he should be commended for even finishing it.

Im mostly curious right now why he aint with Marinovich anymore, since he looked better then ever for the Florian and Sanchez fight, but yeah pretty much BJ needs to leave his current camp or atleast bring in a competent trainer/coach cuz his brother is really no good.

As for me being a "real" mma supporter or not, i have nothing against wrestling, alot of the excitement for a fight dies though when you already know its going to a decision, so when you pair up two people who has made a career out of grinding that sort of takes all kind of excitement out of that fight.

"That's what I keep telling people! Who is stopping them? Name a name and I'll bow down, but who is stopping these guys? That's why I can't pay attention to these people. If you're a true sports fan who enjoys MMA and really try to understand it, you'll get it. Look at Edgar. He's only ever lost to myself. Look at Clementi, who has 52 professional fights and has only been stopped a handful of times. Jim Miller has only lost to the champion and myself. Huerta has never been stopped. Pretty much the same thing with Nate Diaz. Florian did get stopped by Penn, but you see what I mean. It's an excuse, but that's just how it is. I'm asking for the top guys. The decisions are just part of it. The sport is growing so much that these fights are just going to keep getting closer and closer. I don't know what people are going to do, but there are going to be a lot more close fights. More fighters are able to pull in the cash you need to hire the top coaches and eat and train right. We're going up against the guys where that's all they do year round. They train everyday. The gap is going to start to close on these title fights. Guys are getting better and better. People will start to appreciate it, it just takes time."

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im not really sure why decisions considered so bad? theres been so many great fights thats gone to decision, of course there's boring fights, it happens, but its not that often anymore.. maynard/edgar 1 was a good fight, you clearly didnt watch it based on your observation of how the 2nd fight will go. that shit was back an forth, edgar just never got over the hill each round to even it out or take it. at one point gray almost slammed edgar, he slipped around almost hip tossed maynard but maynard flipped it back.. that shit was crazy, it was up/down all fight.

some of my favorite fights went to decision, some of the best fights this year went to decision.

im not really sure why decisions considered so bad? theres been so many great fights thats gone to decision, of course there's boring fights, it happens, but its not that often anymore.. maynard/edgar 1 was a good fight, you clearly didnt watch it based on your observation of how the 2nd fight will go. that shit was back an forth, edgar just never got over the hill each round to even it out or take it. at one point gray almost slammed edgar, he slipped around almost hip tossed maynard but maynard flipped it back.. that shit was crazy, it was up/down all fight.

some of my favorite fights went to decision, some of the best fights this year went to decision.

one day you'll catch on to enjoying a competitive fight

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you still dont get it, i have nothing against competitive fights, but when its two people who's made a career out of going to decision it takes some of the excitement out of it, i mean the odds on either one of those finishing that fight are going to be insanely high.

Maynard is full of shit. I wrestled in high school and practiced Judo for a while, so I understand the grappling aspect, and I still hate it. It has nothing to do with not understanding it. Its more about it being unfair. We rarely see two high level wrestlers going at it and as a result it is easy to predict that the better wrestler will beat the non wrestler. Silva/Sonnen was the first time in a while that a non elite level BJJ guy beat a wrestler.

Yeah, BJ looked bad. He started the first round well - He was much more aggressive and got a few shots in. Then slowly he went back to the first fight - Following Edgar in circles and fumbling. He should have started going for takedowns much earlier, too.

I agree with everyone that his corner was horrid. They may as well have said "kill him, yeah!"

i watched the fight again, and he didn't even come in pumped like he usually does.....like wtf

where was the face slaps and licking the blood off his gloves???

I think he's techincally better than Edgar in all aspects except where it counts the most, mentally.

and as far as takedowns, i think he wanted to be in guard to sub him, if you watch the first fight he got up pretty quick each time, this time he typically tried to sweep for position or pull a sub instead.

you still dont get it, i have nothing against competitive fights, but when its two people who's made a career out of going to decision it takes some of the excitement out of it, i mean the odds on either one of those finishing that fight are going to be insanely high.

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that doesnt change the fact their first fight wasnt all lay and pray like you make out this 2nd fight to be, it was constantly up/down with both almost getting takedowns before being countered etc.. and with edgar upping his wrestling in my opinion, its gonna be better.

it was a competitive fight, so you either didn't watch it, or you do have something against competitive fights

Maynard is full of shit. I wrestled in high school and practiced Judo for a while, so I understand the grappling aspect, and I still hate it. It has nothing to do with not understanding it. Its more about it being unfair. We rarely see two high level wrestlers going at it and as a result it is easy to predict that the better wrestler will beat the non wrestler. Silva/Sonnen was the first time in a while that a non elite level BJJ guy beat a wrestler.

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being unfair or not has nothing to do with my argument, i agree wrestling is to dominant. my argument is maynard/edgar 1 was not boring and lay-n-pray for 15minutes, edgar had some nice tosses, maynard had some nice takedowns, they both countered some and a few good shots were landed, it was a good fight.

silva/sonnen was an example of lay-n-pray and a boring fight, except in this situation it was anderson silva whos rarely in that position and chael sonnen who swore to god he would do exactly what he did to silva (besides lose).. so it made it a lot more interesting minute to minute. edgar/maynard was not like that. hughes/serra was like that.

as far as your argument.. wrestlers are clearly the most dominant, but they still lose..

bj penn isnt a wrestler, up until recently he had a good track record honestly, he beat stevenson, 1-1 with hughes, beat sherk and pulver (even tho pulver chooses to stand he has a wrestling background).. machida beat rashad whos one of the better wrestlers.. feijao just beat king mo considered one of the best wrestlers in mma.. of course the opposite side of the argument is jon fitch or gsp who seem to dominant and run through anyone without good wrestling training.. king mo grinding the decision against gegard.. hughes dominating for as long as he did and still bein dangerous at an older age.. maynard nullifying florian for 3 rounds.. etc

its definitely the wrestlers who age well, maybe its not as much aging as it is having the dominant skillset to help you along? who knows.

being unfair or not has nothing to do with my argument, i agree wrestling is to dominant. my argument is maynard/edgar 1 was not boring and lay-n-pray for 15minutes, edgar had some nice tosses, maynard had some nice takedowns, they both countered some and a few good shots were landed, it was a good fight. yeah maynard won unanimous, but all unanimous fights aren't a hint at a dominating/boring win, and this 2nd fight should be even better.

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Dude, I wasn't even referring to anything you said. I honestly only read the Maynard quote and was only referring to his quote about people complaining about grappling because they are ignorant. My entire post is about that one line from Maynard.

that was mainly toward the guy saying maynard/edgar 2 would be the most boring main event ever or whatever he said, i just happen to quote you and write more then i planned, like the first line was for you then my shit about wrestlers being dominant but losing im not good at organizing my post

It's time to get with some real trainers and corner men that will ride his ass and not ride his nut sack.

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exactly!!!

and bj was just beat and outclassed by superior gameplanning and preparation. bj fought the same fight he always does. hes always extremely composed and calm, he stalks down his opponent and beats them with very methodical boxing.

styles makes fights, and edgars style is something bj just cant figure out. hes too quick and unpredicatable. diego and kenny are stationary targets. edgar bounces around too much and too quick and bj just couldnt get him. its funny cuz i think gray beats frankie, but bj beats gray, and frankie beats bj 9 outta 10 times. although i could be wrong. gray is clearly a workhorse and is actually pretty damn quick and seems to be very level headed so i can definitely see him incorporating frankies style. but just based on the style i think bj takes him almost every time

that doesnt change the fact their first fight wasnt all lay and pray like you make out this 2nd fight to be, it was constantly up/down with both almost getting takedowns before being countered etc.. and with edgar upping his wrestling in my opinion, its gonna be better.

it was a competitive fight, so you either didn't watch it, or you do have something against competitive fights

which is it?

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I'll subscribe to this thread, and then x amounts of months down the line after the fight is a fact i'll come back and say i told you so. For a titltefight Maynard will go back to his bread and butter and he wont risk a single thing he'll take Edgar down control him for 5 rounds, pound on him a little and be crowned champ.

Good to see that BJ isn't going emo and considering retirement again. He says he still plans to fight as often as possible despite the loss. He also says he's looking into different options as far as changing camps, and will be back in the gym today.

I'll subscribe to this thread, and then x amounts of months down the line after the fight is a fact i'll come back and say i told you so. For a titltefight Maynard will go back to his bread and butter and he wont risk a single thing he'll take Edgar down control him for 5 rounds, pound on him a little and be crowned champ.

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you realize he turned to taking edgar down in the first fight to right? and it still didnt turn out as a lay-n-pray match. edgar actually countered a few takedowns, tossed maynard pretty hard once. it's gonna be a great fight, i cant wait for you to up this thread, i hope you do it regardless of the fact you'll be wrong, i wanna add in an lol when times right.