Knicks Morning News (2014.07.09)

Phil Jackson’s brief comments to the assembled media upon leaving the Knicks’ practice Tuesday in a high-school gym just off The Strip could have also been directed at stalling free agent Carmelo Anthony.

Los Angeles Clippers co-owner Donald Sterling on Tuesday sparred with his estranged wife’s attorney at a trial over the $2 billion sale of the NBA franchise, interrupting and shouting during testimony and saying he wants to keep the team for financial reasons.

141 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2014.07.09)”

Good morning, everyone. Welcome back to the drama. Allow me to pose a question:

By all accounts, LeBron has two choices:

1. Stay in Miami.

2. Go back to Dan Gilbert, a man who treated you like a runaway slave, and play in Cleveland, which has become an even bigger joke of a franchise since you left, and will almost certainly continue to make terrible decisions that will negatively impact your chances of winning titles.

My question, then, is why the fuck did he opt out???

Next year, he could have had the same two choices plus many, many more. I don’t get it.

I think it’s because he wants max money and he thinks he can carry whatever team he’s on to the finals nigh singled-handedly. The Cavs team he would be on is better than the team he dragged to finals all those years ago I think.

But it’s mostly about money and he wants it now, which is all in his rights. He also could’ve gotten a message from Bosh or Wade that they were opting out and chose not to stay unless the Big 3 stayed together.

He’ll get the same max offers next year if he wants it. The only thing keeping LeBron from max money for (probably) the rest of his 30s is injury. And that’s unlikely, given his track record.

His best move would be to find a team on a one-year deal, maybe for the MLE or some other franchise with $10M available (hello, Spurs) and wait for the right opportunity in the future.

If he signs a four-year deal with the Cavs, he’s going to be very, very upset with himself after year 1. And then he’ll totally wreck any chance of being loved in Ohio when he forces a trade the following year.

I just can’t believe that someone cares about Ohioans’ opinions enough to crawl back to Dan Gilbert.

He’s not going to make more money, though, Alecto. His max salary is tied to what he made last year. If Miami (or Cleveland) offers him the max this summer, it’s going to be the same amount he would have made by opting in.

If you’re telling me he did this so he can turn his 2 year max deal into a 4 year max deal, I’m skeptical. I think he values flexibility as much, if not more, than long term security (which he has in spades).

Yeah, you’re probably right, I’m always fuzzy on how contracts work/get drawn up in the NBA which is why I usually rely on Ephus. Maybe he just really likes Cleveland (the first person in history to ever do so). Maybe there’s another unknown team in the running that got a verbal from LeBron should they clear cap space that has a much more promising future than the heat/management structure than the Cavs. Like the Knicks (lol if only). Or maybe he has a host of semi-rational emotional reasons for opting out, like returning to his hometown of Cleveland, thumbing his nose at Arison etc.

Next year, he could have had the same two choices plus many, many more. I don’t get it.

Because Kyrie Irving’s salary is only 7m this season. Varejao contract could be dumped immediately, and then other than Jack, all of their contracts could be terminated at the end of this season. 76ers would probably take all of those including Jack if 1 or 2 picks were added (though picks might not even be needed). It would help 76ers to meet the minimum salary requirement and they could choose to keep or dump players like Thompson/Waiters/Zeller/Bennett at the end of the season. Irving (7m), Bron (20m), Bosh or Melo (20m). That’s only 47m. Keep Dellavedova at 800K who will be a a top 5 SG in couple of years (excellent passer, 37% 3FG%, good defender). Bottom Line: It’s a perfect storm of events for him to act now to play in Cleveland on a very strong team.

Note: is there something in the CBA which forces a team to use average salary in trade if the salary makes large jump (e.g., Irving deal?). If so, then Cav option is less attractive.

If Lebron really likes Cleveland, and his family likes Cleveland, he shouldn’t go play because the owner is a dick? Find me an NBA owner who isn’t a dick. NBA teams, by and large, are owned by rich assholes.

If Lebron really likes Cleveland, and his family likes Cleveland, he shouldn’t go play because the owner is a dick? Find me an NBA owner who isn’t a dick. NBA teams, by and large, are owned by rich assholes.

He’s not just a dick, he’s a fool. You want to go play for someone who you trust won’t fuck up every decision he makes that directly impacts you.

And he’s not just a dick, he’s a dick who tried to personally humiliate you in a very arrogant manner.

Hey, I like Delly as much as the next guy but I think is quite unlikely he becomes a top 5 SG.

The SG position is very weak. In his first year, Dellavedova posted the highest dime rate among SGs. He shot 37% from 3. Bradley identified Dellavedova, Shump, and Tony Allen as the toughest defenders. What more do you want from a guy in his first year? His WS/48 would have been much higher had it properly accounted for defense.

And call me crazy, but if I’m LeBron, the fact that Kyrie Irving is locked up for 5 years at the max goes in the column marked “con”, not “pro”. It’s pretty stupid that they locked him up to that deal a year ahead of time when they had the chance to sign LeBron.

Yeah but they’d be more attractive if he was on the last year of his rookie deal. And I think the Cavs know that, too. Which is why I think they are completely shocked that they are actually a finalist for LeBron. I think they thought they had no chance at him when they inked that extension.

Lebron is not going anywhere. Miami is a top notch organization, Cleveland not. He’s best friends with Wade and Bosch, and he loves living in Miami.
He’s just putting pressure on the Heat to get him some support.

Wow – per Marc Stein there is a 3 way trade happening now so the Cavs can clear up to about $24MM in cap space. They definitely think they’re getting Lebron.

Meanwhile Brooklyn comes out great in this deal picking up Karasev (who many were high on before last year’s draft), Jarrett Jack (who has a bad contract but is an ok player), having only to send out Marcus Thornton and his awful contract.

Lebron is not going anywhere. Miami is a top notch organization, Cleveland not. He’s best friends with Wade and Bosch, and he loves living in Miami.
He’s just putting pressure on the Heat to get him some support.

He’s a Cav so long as one of Love/Bosh/Melo is willing to play in Cleveland. Cavs will have a stronger and deeper roster than Heat if Bron stayed in Miami. Gilbert flew to Miami, Bron had Nike meeting yesterday, billboards have been bought up, the Cav servers have been upgraded. And I don’t think Bron would have included Cavs as option unless he were serious; he may hate Gilbert but he doesn’t hate the city.

You’re not crazy. Kyrie Irving has been a dud at #1. The good thing is that he’s only 21, and could start making the leap soon.

Right. And he hasn’t been an Anthony Bennett level dud. He hasn’t produced like you’d hope a #1 pick to produce, but he hasn’t been bad either, and he’s still got a real chance to significantly improve. For the Cavs that’s a victory.

That trade definitely makes it look like this is really happening. Also highlights how bad of an organization Lebron is potentially rejoining. Cleveland just paid 3 1st rounders (2012 #17 , 2013 #19 and a future 1st) to shed last offseason’s “marquee” signing.

I think Love will be a Cav or we would have heard about Thompson/Waiters/Bennett to 76ers or another below cap team though there’s still time. Those players are probably headed to Minnesota in trade. If so, Kerr should be fired immediately.

LeBron had people believing Delonte West, Mo Willians, and the no knees version of Dwyane Wade were all good players when standing next to him. The fact is Kyrie Irving is a player that can get you 20 and 6 a night and is a good three point shooter. If Kyrie played for the Heat instead of Wade, they probably don’t get destroyed the way they did. I get the whole “statistics in basketball stay the same in all situations,” but put Kyrie Irving on a team with LeBron and you get a top 5 guard in this league irregardless of position, and LeBron’s best teammate ever. And let’s not forget the effect LeBron can have on Andrew Wiggins.

Basketball-wise? Cleveland makes the most sense for LeBron. He gets to play with two of the best young prospects in the world and Andy V. Irving/Wiggins/Varejao is the best core group for LeBron to join outside of Harden/Parsons/Howard, but that core group is a little older and plays in a much tougher conference. Would I ever want to see LeBron play for Dan Gilbert again? Absolutely not. He runs the most incompetent organization in basketball (5 picks in the top 4 of the past four drafts and you still manage to suck) and doesn’t deserve the opportunity to make money off the back of the world’s greatest athlete.

It’s a little surprising that LeBron might go play for Cleveland, but not as surprising as some of the folks here seem to think…

People always overlook human motivations – family, home, ambition, desire, guilt – when talking about pro athletes. LeBron already has enough money to support his family richly for generations to come. He sees the writing on the wall about Wade and Bosh, and thinks that he has a better chance with Irving and whatever young talent he can recruit to Cleveland.

He’s from there. He knows what it would mean to the people of Cleveland to bring home a championship.

We want players to come to NYC because we know that the glory of winning a chip here would be infinite. LeBron winning a championship on the Knicks? He’d be a god. It’s the same for his hometown, and perhaps that motivates him. I don’t see LeBron as a callous/ruthless Jordan type, either. I imagine he feels remorseful that he left Cleveland behind and dreams about what it would be like to right his wrongs.

I think it’d be an amazing story, and I’d love to root for LeBron and a bunch of Cleveland kiddies next year. Hope it happens!

Me being furious that we can’t open the space for LeBron & Melo because of Barngani = me being furious that couldn’t open the space for the big 3 because of Eddy Curry.

And this, more than anything, is why you don’t trade for a Josh fucking Smith type because some theoretical future free agent class doesn’t look good. Crazy things happen frequently in the NBA. Guys get into fights over girls. Egos clash. Unless you already have a very good team, future flexibility should be one of your most important goals when you’re trying to construct a roster.

Glad for CLE. Long suffering fan base. I’ll pull for them, especially if they diversify, play a more Euro style with Blatt, and share the ball. If this is just leverage and he leaves them at the alter then I’ll be a devoted hater (until he comes here, at 40, with bad knees).

As to the sociopath, it really is amazing that he’ll live that down. Talk about a reprieve. Like the Red Sox in 1919 canceling “No No Nannette” and giving the Babe a raise.

That said, and I agree 100837587% with Kevin McElroy on twitter — Lebron has literally said zero about this whole thing. He hasn’t even had a meeting with the Cavs. Rich Paul meeting with the Cavs means nothing — agents are supposed to scour all the possibilities. It would be a soul-crushing blow for Lebron to sign with anyone else other than Cleveland at this point, but this whole LBJ Return To Cleveland idea has been spun by the media.

I feel like if Lebron does NOT re-sign with the Cavs, he should literally have a press conference to talk to the Cleveland fans – something like a “listen, I never said I was even interested in going back. This whole thing was created by the media so if you want to point fingers at anyone for getting your hopes up, point them at these writers surrounding me.”

That said, and I agree 100837587% with Kevin McElroy on twitter — Lebron has literally said zero about this whole thing. He hasn’t even had a meeting with the Cavs. Rich Paul meeting with the Cavs means nothing — agents are supposed to scour all the possibilities. It would be a soul-crushing blow for Lebron to sign with anyone else other than Cleveland at this point, but this whole LBJ Return To Cleveland idea has been spun by the media.

I don’t think you trade away future 1st round picks out of the blue to create cap space if LeBron hasn’t told you something.

Meanwhile does anyone think that this whole thing has been planned by the NBA? There’s a 10 day moratorium, and what better way to jack up the page views and interest than having LBJ and Melo in limbo?

Why not figure out a way to get with Durant, Chris Paul or any other actually and verifiably awesome basketball player

The Cavs have a lot of attractive pieces. Is Tristan Thompson a great NBA player? No. But he’s owed 12 million over the next two years and is 22. Chris Kaman is getting 10 million for the next two years.

I don’t think you trade away future 1st round picks out of the blue to create cap space if LeBron hasn’t told you something.

That’s literally almost word for word what people were saying last time about them firing Mike Brown: “I don’t think you fire such a succesful coach out of the blue if Lebron hasn’t told you something”.

This is exactly like when Kobe “nearly” left the Lakers for the Clippers. The Clippers cleared a bunch of cap space by sacrificing picks to move players and then came away with squat. Cleveland probably also figures if they miss out on Lebron they can target other players in free agency like Stephenson, Ariza, Parsons, etc.

Meanwhile does anyone think that this whole thing has been planned by the NBA? There’s a 10 day moratorium, and what better way to jack up the page views and interest than having LBJ and Melo in limbo?

This is the 1st summer where the NBA has approached the NFL level off-season. They are not there yet but I think that its every sorts goal to be talked about year round like the NFL.

That’s literally almost word for word what people were saying last time about them firing Mike Brown: “I don’t think you fire such a succesful coach out of the blue if Lebron hasn’t told you something”.

Um, no. You just made that up. Mike Brown was a fucking idiot on the level of Mike Woodson. Step 1 to keeping LeBron was Fire Mike Brown. People last time were saying “You have no chance of keeping LeBron if that fucking idiot is still your coach.”

Alright, I’m going to work before I have a meltdown. Maybe I can take a nap and wake up in the alternate universe where we just moved Steve Novak and Amar’e Stoudemire using the draft picks that we didn’t give up in the Bargnani trade that never happened to make room for LeBron.

Can’t get too upset about the Bargs trade. We needed Bargs’ floor spacing. We needed him to draw Hibbert out of the paint. He was gonna be much better in a new role, something something spot-up shooting, something something Synergy, something something….

One thing I’ll say – it’s hard to imagine LBJ leaving Miami to go to any other team without actually having had a face-to-face meeting (that we know of). Cleveland has a completely new front office and a brand new head coach that has a great reputation but has never coached in the NBA.

Um, no. You just made that up. Mike Brown was a fucking idiot on the level of Mike Woodson. Step 1 to keeping LeBron was Fire Mike Brown. People last time were saying “You have no chance of keeping LeBron if that fucking idiot is still your coach.”

Nope, that’s total revisionist history. That’s not how Mike Brown was seen at the time at all. He may be seen that way now, but he was by far the most successful coach in franchise history and one of the most successful coaches in the league. Perception was definitely that Brown was out to appease Lebron (from ESPN’s artivle on the firing):

In past seasons, James complained about the team’s lack of offensive imagination, saying the Cavs should run more. He and Brown worked through most differences and seemed to have a solid relationship, but it began to fade as this brief postseason unfolded.

Because of an injury to O’Neal, Brown was forced to integrate the center back into the offense during the playoffs, and the Cavs never got into a flow. Also, James and some of the team’s other veterans questioned Brown’s game plans in both the series against Chicago and Boston.

James publicly questioned why O’Neal played only 49 seconds in the fourth quarter of the Game 4 loss in Boston. In the opening round against the Bulls, James campaigned to get J.J. Hickson more playing time, creating an awkward standoff between the coach and superstar.

Adding to the drama in Cleveland’s final home game was the sight of Kentucky coach John Calipari, a friend of James, sitting in a courtside seat — next to James’ agent — adjacent to Cleveland’s bench.”

Before we assume done deal LeBron to Cleveland, we have to remember this is the Cavaliers. So yes, they would be dumb enough to do this 3 way cap dump deal without having any kind of commitment from LeBron.

This is the team after all, that hired the same coach twice and drafted Anthony Bennett with the #1 pick.

thenamestsam, it really isn’t revisionist history. Mike Brown was always a poor coach. He was a poor coach with a winning record because LeBron carried him. But he was a poor coach, and he was always going to get fired after back-to-back disappointing postseasons. He was Mike Woodson when the Knicks went 54-28. I swear to god, we were talking about what an idiot he was back in 2009.

I just wanted to post a quick note thanking Mike and team for this blog.

It’s that time of year — when every other news vehicle has barely any hoops coverage and what little there is hovers mainly on stupid rumors that are little based in the realities of contracts and money.

Meanwhile, the Knickerblogger community is always a great read, full of insights and ideas and skinny on who might go where and why. I really appreciate it.

I have serious basketball withdrawal from June to October and summer league doesn’t do s&*t to get me by. This blog is really helpful. Thank you.

thenamestsam, it really isn’t revisionist history. Mike Brown was always a poor coach. He was a poor coach with a winning record because LeBron carried him. But he was a poor coach, and he was always going to get fired after back-to-back disappointing postseasons. He was Mike Woodson when the Knicks went 54-28. I swear to god, we were talking about what an idiot he was back in 2009.

I’m not disagreeing with your judgement of his coaching chops, or even with the idea that you and others in the “smarter” basketball community had already pegged him as a dud. Just with the idea that what you’re talking about was the general perception. Brown had one of the best coaching records in basketball history at the time, and his next job was succeeding Phil Jackson as Lakers head coach. The guy was not seen generally the way you’re describing and I remember lots of chatter about the motivating factor in the change to Byron Scott being due to Lebron’s preferences.

I suppose if LeBron signs some sort of one-year deal with Miami, or a two-year deal with the second year being a player option, Phil could maybe sell Melo on the idea that LeBron might come over next year. Then if it doesn’t work out I suppose Melo could get out of here with some sort of MeloDrama III maneuver, which could bring back some assets.

I think in almost any other circumstance, the Knicks wouldn’t put up with Melo putting them off like this, but I think even they understand that if you have a chance to play with Lebron, you take all the time you need to see if you can play with Lebron.

The “bad” guy here is Lebron, if only because he is only now getting around to doing the stuff he should have been doing last week.

Are you saying that the whole idea of giving Riley a chance to find players who could improve the team was a charade and that Bron had always planned on joining the Cavs?

I mean Lebron could have sped this all up if he wanted to make a decision last week. He’s only now actually meeting with people himself. The quotes were because it’s really not a big deal to take an extra week on a major decision, ya know? One conspiracy theory I heard on Simmons/Lowe’s podcast yesterday was that this was Lebron’s way of giving his agent, Rich Paul, the spotlight for the first week, as he and Paul are business partners in their marketing agency and it only helps Paul’s profile to be in every article about Lebron for a week.

Phil is not exactly acting super-aggressively when it comes to dumping the Bargs and Stat contracts. I hope all this talk of “Bargs might be good in the triangle” is some Jedi Mind Trick shit, because if we’re putting any plans on hold because “Bargs might be good in the triangle,” I’m gonna need more spray paint to huff.

I think Shump and THJ are both highly expendable players. Sure, Shump is a nice defensive guard, but he only has one more year on his rookie contract and he’s kind of a zero on offense. THJ I am not that fond of.

I am a die hard NYK fan since late 80s (been utilizing this site for a long time). I live in Miami now, however, and can tell you that as panicked as the “fans” may sound here, the reaction will pale in comparison if he leaves to what happened in Cleveland in 2010 and what may happen now if he spurns Cleveland once more (even if it is his agent quite possibly creating false hope in Cleveland).

Philly needs to reach the cap floor AND be terrible again this year. Enter Knicks.

Do you need to spend lots of money on basketball players?? Do youneed those players to be really bad at basketball? Come on down to Big Chief Triangle’s used “superstar” emporium! We’ve got top draft picks inappropriately priced and ready to move!

I think you can teach THJ to be a competent team defender. If you do that and he can replicate what he did shooting the ball last year or even improve it, you have a plus player on a rookie deal. Shump was our only good perimeter defender last year. I give up those guys to get Lebron or a player who significantly upgrades our talent level, but they aren’t guys I’d use just to dump an expiring deal.

Also I’d be much more willing to deal Shump than THJ after seeing how much marginal wing talent got overpaid this summer.

I’m in Miami right now. If you want to hear a fan base in a state of panic, listen to Miami sports radio. Wow.

Sports radio/talk shows (e.g., Labatard) and the Miami fans are very different animals. I don’t think most fans would even realize Bron’s gone until the start of the season. “Hey that says Lance on the jersey, that doesn’t look like LeBron.” Really Miami fans doesn’t deserve LBJ.

There’s a guy on the roster, Wayne Ellington, who does a lot of the same things Shump and THJ do. He’s kind of like Shump and THJ combined into one player really. I admit I did not know much about Ellington before we acquired him, but he’s regarded as a hard-nosed defender, and he shoots the three really well. He looks like a really good under-the-radar player to me.

There’s a guy on the roster, Wayne Ellington, who does a lot of the same things Shump and THJ do. He’s kind of like Shump and THJ combined into one player really. I admit I did not know much about Ellington before we acquired him, but he’s regarded as a hard-nosed defender, and he shoots the three really well. He looks like a really good under-the-radar player to me.

I agree with this. He also has some experience in the Triangle previously in Minnesota when he played for Rambis there.

Im glad Phil is not rushing to trade Amare and/or Bargs. Dont do it if you arent in position to sign a big-time FA. Id rather they keep them and let their contracts expire rather than trade them early which will cost them either Shump or TH2 too just to sign who exactly this summer??

I went to the game here in Miami in which Melo scored 50 and also the one in 2012-13 when we beat them by over 20 (the one and only game that I can recall Felton really playing well since returning to the team). I have never seen an arena clear out faster (other than the remaining Knicks fans, of which there were many), except maybe during this year’s finals.

Im glad Phil is not rushing to trade Amare and/or Bargs. Dont do it if you arent in position to sign a big-time FA. Id rather they keep them and let their contracts expire rather than trade them early which will cost them either Shump or TH2 too just to sign who exactly this summer??

Maybe Melo feels as though he didn’t cost the Knicks enough young assets the first time he came over. This time, he is bidding to convince Phil to trade both Shump and THJ only to whiff on Lebron and be stuck with a maxed out Merlot.

We can offer Melo 5 years as opposed to LA’s 4. But maybe their insane contract to Kobe has sent a message to the league that if you are a “star” for the Lakers they will massively overpay you through your decline.

Well then. Everybody ready to cry tears of despair at Melo Mega Max press conference? And to see the city Cleveland set itself on fire as LeBron signs with Miami and they’re left with Not Contract Year Ariza and Blow Ready?

If Woj tweet is the shit (and he’s even more prescient than Jowles), then Melo has the highest financial IQ and the lowest basketball one ever. Chasing a trade for a max deal will leave his eventual next team more or less gutted… Also, what the heck, Phil.

Knicks offer Melo super max contract. WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
They basically negotiated against no one and lost.

“…friend who was with Anthony said “”He (Melo) is really torn because this is the biggest decision of his career.””
Melo loves NY so much that it was really tough for him to accept their offer that was far more than anyone else offered. That’s too funny.

Dumbest organization in all of sports. Thatta boy, Phil.
This is going to get ugly, quick.

I can’t wait to hear how Melo doesn’t like playing in the triangle, and how he’s unhappy with the direction of the team, and to see him pull his usual undermining bullshit. The way he handled this contract was absolutely despicable. It’s one thing to take the mega-max, but taking the mega-max and letting your cronies leak the fact that you’re doing it just to get the max then you’re gonna pull a MeloDrama III and force a trade is just reprehensible.

It will be a glorious day when this cancer of a human being is no longer a Knick.

They should try to trade him sooner rather than later. They should really try to move him this season. In fact, that should be job #1. I’m sure he’s going to have a no-trade clause, right, so we can only trade him to a place that he approves, correct?

Mark my words, this situation with Melo will go sour incredibly quickly. I bet he doesn’t last half a season before launching MeloDrama III. Melo is a professional underminer, and he will undermine his way to Chicago or Houston or wherever.

I don’t comment here often, but you guys might need to chill out a bit. The contract is bad and it felt like Phil was bidding against himself. Hard to justify giving him that much money or paying a 35 year old Melo almost $30 million.

On the other hand, lets relax with calling melo a cancer of a human being. Feels a bit harsh. The knicks didn’t need to offer him the full max and we don’t know how or where woj got his info from.

As for the future, the knicks were competitive two years ago carrying $20 million of dead amare money. It’s not ideal, but you can still field a strong team while overpaying Melo.

Has there been any kind of official, from Melo or from the Knicks announcement?

I can’t find any mention of one.

So, in the meantime anyone who visits this board is treated to the “two trolls under a bridge trolled by a hack” version of commentary.

You guys don’t own disappointment with the Knicks. We all own that.

What you do own is an impressive case of confirmation bias and a perverse desire to be disappointed. Further, your judgment here seems to be that Melo is a traitor if he leaves and greedy if he stays and either way an evil man.

Why don’t we wait until it’s official and see what kind of contract he signs before crucifying anybody. Woj is accurate and all, but that tweet sounds like speculation and he has been wrong before. He was completely inaccurate many times during the Melodrama, so it’s also possible this guy has no in on Melo’s circle.

I’m not sure why Melo’s this huge scumbag piece of shit according to some people either. I think Melo and all these guys have handled this situation really poorly and it annoys me they all need to get their ego massaged non-stop but get a grip. The guy isn’t a convicted felon.

Was thinking the same thing when I read it. Sounds like ESPN is pissed their sources couldn’t break this story. Reminds me of after Hahn broke Lebron to Miami and everybody was trying to discredit or add their own layers to the story.