Aye ... but one can aspire to Higher Ground. Henceforth I won't let personalities get in the way, and will make sure I home in on the character flaws of anyone who does. And I'll only debate people who - after a succession of lengthy exchanges - I determine to be not worth my time debating.

Anyway you AtBC-ers are all very very immature and I condemn you absolutely. Consider yourselves condemned. I will not stand idly by yadda yadda yadda. The veracity of evolutionary theory is at stake. If you keep misbehavin' it might make it wrong. Can't ya see?

--------------SoapySam is a pathetic asswiper. Joe G

BTW, when you make little jabs like â€śI thought basic logic was one thing UDers could handle,â€ť you come off looking especially silly when you turn out to be wrong. - Barry Arrington

What's wrong with this picture? arrington is bitching about an alleged lack of freedom of speech (for christians), yet look at his draconian moderation at UD. He obviously doesn't like gay people either, and of course wants to legislate away any freedoms for them and anyone else he doesn't approve of.

arrington farted:

"I am currently reading Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldberg, in which he makes a strong case that liberalism (modern liberalism, not classical liberalism) should be placed on the same pole of the political spectrum as fascism, not the opposite pole as is commonly done, because there is a strong authoritarian/totalitarian streak running through modern liberalism/progressivism.

Ironically, those liberals and progressives who agitate most strongly for “personal autonomy”when they are pushing for special civil rights protections for persons engaging in deviant sexual behavior, really only believe in personal autonomy for their friends. If you try to express views counter to theirs, they will use every means at their disposal to silence you.

Witness the so-called civil rights commissions in your country, which have effectively made it a crime to teach certain parts of the Christian scriptures."

Aye ... but one can aspire to Higher Ground. Henceforth I won't let personalities get in the way, and will make sure I home in on the character flaws of anyone who does. And I'll only debate people who - after a succession of lengthy exchanges - I determine to be not worth my time debating.

Anyway you AtBC-ers are all very very immature and I condemn you absolutely. Consider yourselves condemned. I will not stand idly by yadda yadda yadda. The veracity of evolutionary theory is at stake. If you keep misbehavin' it might make it wrong. Can't ya see?

Let us join our voices together on that thought, so that The Argument Regarding Design can be engaged absent the red herrings led away to strawmen soaked in ad hominems and ignited through snidely or crudely incendiary rhetoric to cloud, confuse, poison and polarise the atmosphere.

--------------Zachriel, angel that rules over memory, presides over the planet Jupiter.Member AMF, Angelic Motive ForcePushing planets on celestial spheres â€” one epoch at a time.

ES; If you have done any significant experimental work, you will know that we routinely trichotomise observed effects, on investigator intervention, random scatter and laws of necessity, just for one instance.

1) KF has done significant experimental work?2) WTF is "trichotomise?" Is that like lobotimize X3? Or one more than a dichotomy? 3) How does one 'intervene' with a 'law of necessity?" The only use I know of for law of necessity is legal/ethical in terms of self-preservation

Random paragraph generator?

In response to number 1: NO.

I've done some serious digging to see if gordo has ever done anything besides spewing dictatorial sermons and condemning atheists/evolutionary materialists/methodological naturalists, etc., and I've found just one thing that he was involved in in any way. It's just a very basic outline for the next several years that the government of Montserrat drew up a couple of years ago and it has a list of contributors at the end and gordo is listed as a "consultant". Frankly, I think that they were just being nice by adding his name and that "consultant" sounded better than 'irritating, obnoxious, meddling asshole'.

If he were anywhere near as important as he thinks and says he is there would be papers, projects, plans, etc., that would have his name in them. I've looked at Montserrat and Jamaica government records, government employees, science projects in those countries, projects that have to do with the volcano and the environment in Montserrat, engineering and construction projects in Montserrat and Jamaica, and all kinds of other stuff including, but not limited to, the names of business owners, other business directories, phone books, and all of the news outlets, websites, and forums that pertain to Montserrat and other Caribbean Islands. He's virtually a ghost, except on some blogs where he has puked up tons of convoluted vomit.

I don't believe that he even has a job as a janitor, let alone a job of any kind in science. He also likes to call himself a physicist, yet he has no track record in that either. From what I've seen, I think that he must get his money from fleecing gullible sheeple, and/or from welfare. Chances are, he gets disability payments because he's way too aggravating and mentally deranged to be hired by anyone.

gordo is a phony baloney liar and bullshitter, and is nowhere near being a scientist or physicist. All he does is sit in his basement and spew his bile on the internet. And it's likely his mom's basement.

By the way, in case anyone is wondering, Montserrat has a population of about 4500 people. That's for the whole island. If gordo were prominent there, his name would be prominent there.

--------------Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

Aye ... but one can aspire to Higher Ground. Henceforth I won't let personalities get in the way, and will make sure I home in on the character flaws of anyone who does. And I'll only debate people who - after a succession of lengthy exchanges - I determine to be not worth my time debating.

Anyway you AtBC-ers are all very very immature and I condemn you absolutely. Consider yourselves condemned. I will not stand idly by yadda yadda yadda. The veracity of evolutionary theory is at stake. If you keep misbehavin' it might make it wrong. Can't ya see?

Let us join our voices together on that thought, so that The Argument Regarding Design can be engaged absent the red herrings led away to strawmen soaked in ad hominems and ignited through snidely or crudely incendiary rhetoric to cloud, confuse, poison and polarise the atmosphere.

But what fun would that be?

--------------Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

ES; If you have done any significant experimental work, you will know that we routinely trichotomise observed effects, on investigator intervention, random scatter and laws of necessity, just for one instance.

1) KF has done significant experimental work?2) WTF is "trichotomise?" Is that like lobotimize X3? Or one more than a dichotomy? 3) How does one 'intervene' with a 'law of necessity?" The only use I know of for law of necessity is legal/ethical in terms of self-preservation

Random paragraph generator?

In response to number 1: NO.

I've done some serious digging to see if gordo has ever done anything besides spewing dictatorial sermons and condemning atheists/evolutionary materialists/methodological naturalists, etc., and I've found just one thing that he was involved in in any way. It's just a very basic outline for the next several years that the government of Montserrat drew up a couple of years ago and it has a list of contributors at the end and gordo is listed as a "consultant". Frankly, I think that they were just being nice by adding his name and that "consultant" sounded better than 'irritating, obnoxious, meddling asshole'.

If he were anywhere near as important as he thinks and says he is there would be papers, projects, plans, etc., that would have his name in them. I've looked at Montserrat and Jamaica government records, government employees, science projects in those countries, projects that have to do with the volcano and the environment in Montserrat, engineering and construction projects in Montserrat and Jamaica, and all kinds of other stuff including, but not limited to, the names of business owners, other business directories, phone books, and all of the news outlets, websites, and forums that pertain to Montserrat and other Caribbean Islands. He's virtually a ghost, except on some blogs where he has puked up tons of convoluted vomit.

I don't believe that he even has a job as a janitor, let alone a job of any kind in science. He also likes to call himself a physicist, yet he has no track record in that either. From what I've seen, I think that he must get his money from fleecing gullible sheeple, and/or from welfare. Chances are, he gets disability payments because he's way too aggravating and mentally deranged to be hired by anyone.

gordo is a phony baloney liar and bullshitter, and is nowhere near being a scientist or physicist. All he does is sit in his basement and spew his bile on the internet. And it's likely his mom's basement.

By the way, in case anyone is wondering, Montserrat has a population of about 4500 people. That's for the whole island. If gordo were prominent there, his name would be prominent there.

I believe Gordon really does have an MSc in physics from some Jamaican university. I once Googled him and found a link to his thesis - something about a multi-channel device of some kind if memory serves. He is obviously crazy but he is not entirely unintelligent. A bit like Hitler if you like.

--------------After much reflection I finally realized that the best way to describe the cause of the universe is: the great I AM.

Further update: Eigenstate has run for cover.The genesis of this post was the StephenB’s accusation that eigenstate refused to concede the law of noncontradiction: “For you [i.e.,eigenstate], the law of non-contradiction is a “useful tool” except on those occasions when it reveals the poverty of your non-arguments, at which time, it can be safely discounted. That position alone renders you unfit for rational dialogue.”

Surely not, I thought to myself. No one can argue logically and at the same time ever deny the law of noncontradiction, because the law of noncontradiction underlies ALL logical arguments. So I put this post up to give eigenstate a chance to refute StephenB’s accusation. I know eigenstate came back onto this site after I put up this post, because he commented on another string after this post went up. Yet he refused to answer the question. I can only conclude from this that StephenB is correct. Eigenstate and his ilk are not acting in good faith. They feel free to spew their nonsense, but when they are confronted with a challenge they cannot meet they run away. He is not, as StephenB points out, fit for rational dialogue, and you will not see him on this site again.

no. words.

The problem for you Barry, is that you cant (yet) censor the internet, so eigenstates reply is available for all to see, and clearly demonstrates that you are a bare faced liar.

My post to Barry, which I suspect may not be preserved over there, given the current dynamics:

Quote

Theoretically, yes. In practice, the probabilities are so vanishingly small it's indistinguishable from no.

<snip>

Predictably, and disgustingly, cowardly Barry claims eigenstate has not responded and bans him.

Quote

Further update: Eigenstate has run for cover.The genesis of this post was the StephenB’s accusation that eigenstate refused to concede the law of noncontradiction: “For you [i.e.,eigenstate], the law of non-contradiction is a “useful tool” except on those occasions when it reveals the poverty of your non-arguments, at which time, it can be safely discounted. That position alone renders you unfit for rational dialogue.”

Surely not, I thought to myself. No one can argue logically and at the same time ever deny the law of noncontradiction, because the law of noncontradiction underlies ALL logical arguments. So I put this post up to give eigenstate a chance to refute StephenB’s accusation. I know eigenstate came back onto this site after I put up this post, because he commented on another string after this post went up. Yet he refused to answer the question. I can only conclude from this that StephenB is correct. Eigenstate and his ilk are not acting in good faith. They feel free to spew their nonsense, but when they are confronted with a challenge they cannot meet they run away. He is not, as StephenB points out, fit for rational dialogue, and you will not see him on this site again.

What a P.O.S. Perhaps someone (if any) left posting in the echo chamber can point back to eigenstate's post and correct prediction at the "fever swamp" here.

Regarding the final sentence: I wouldn't bet on that, Barry.

--------------Joe: Most criticisims of ID stem from ignorance and jealousy.Joe: As for the authors of the books in the Bible, well the OT was authored by Moses and the NT was authored by various people.Byers: The eskimo would not need hairy hair growth as hair, I say, is for keeping people dry. Not warm.

groovamos tried scientific materialism, but gave it up on account of the "pointless sex":

Quote

Twice in my life I subscribed to scientific materialism, it is just too sexy an option for most young students to pass up. Literally, as in those circles, they’re just so besotted by the easy sex. That was the first time, and when that backfired I backed out of it, only to be bamboozled a few years later in SoCal because it was just so easy to fall into again out there. But a few years of living in a “pointless” universe full of pointless sex ground down my being a little too much for comfort.

I see the outlines of a Joel Borofsky hoo-hoo fixation.

Or Portnoy.

Sour grapes, I'm guessing. Even in the non-stop musical beds orgy that is college, he couldn't get any.

--------------"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

Incidentally, it takes many forms. Apprently, there are 450 public employees at present working on legislating for hospital staff to be forbidden to use the terms, ‘mother’ and ‘father’, for fear of offending the sensibilities of homosexuals.

Quote

I should have said, ‘militant’ homosexuals. There is a difference between them and most homosexuals, I believe.

Quote

Also, in your dismissiveness, you forgot the primary-school children raping and sodomising their little class-mates.

In today’s papers, two young women, each with a baby sired by the young man in the middle of the photo. We’ll leave their sexuality out of it, since there is no arguing with homosexual lobbyists, however “ad hoc”. The immemorial wisdom of nature’s nuclear family is despised by today’s atheist know-nothings.

Some other odd views in his ramblings as well.

--------------Joe: Most criticisims of ID stem from ignorance and jealousy.Joe: As for the authors of the books in the Bible, well the OT was authored by Moses and the NT was authored by various people.Byers: The eskimo would not need hairy hair growth as hair, I say, is for keeping people dry. Not warm.

Further update: Eigenstate has run for cover.The genesis of this post was the StephenB’s accusation that eigenstate refused to concede the law of noncontradiction: “For you [i.e.,eigenstate], the law of non-contradiction is a “useful tool” except on those occasions when it reveals the poverty of your non-arguments, at which time, it can be safely discounted. That position alone renders you unfit for rational dialogue.”

Surely not, I thought to myself. No one can argue logically and at the same time ever deny the law of noncontradiction, because the law of noncontradiction underlies ALL logical arguments. So I put this post up to give eigenstate a chance to refute StephenB’s accusation. I know eigenstate came back onto this site after I put up this post, because he commented on another string after this post went up. Yet he refused to answer the question. I can only conclude from this that StephenB is correct. Eigenstate and his ilk are not acting in good faith. They feel free to spew their nonsense, but when they are confronted with a challenge they cannot meet they run away. He is not, as StephenB points out, fit for rational dialogue, and you will not see him on this site again.

Well, that's Barry for ya. Is anyone surprised?

Ran away, heh. For all the frustration of that kind of childishness from Barry, there's something, something similar to schadenfreude, that's gratifying in a situation like this. I guess there's some payoff in just knowing that Barry chooses to debase himself like that in such situations. And he knows that I know that he's had to be a shit to deal with this. It would be better, overall, if he'd just engage on the merits, but in the absence of that...

It was a good, short run, and ended just as I predicted here, previously.

@Reciprocating Bill, I did post a reply to StephenB last night with a couple friendly reminders on the original thread where we went at it regarding LNC, but I don't see the post there this morning. Other posts to nullasalus and mike1962 went through, so, dunno what happened. Maybe StephenB has special defenses in place from coward like me, now. You never know when you might need to make your opponent run away...

Arrington: I am currently reading Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldberg, in which he makes a strong case that liberalism (modern liberalism, not classical liberalism) should be placed on the same pole of the political spectrum as fascism

Arrington does not like liberals? And he's an American Christian? And he denies Global Warming? I am shocked. Shocked, I say. That such disparate points of view should find themselves combined in the one human being is utterly unheard of. Wonder what he thinks of gays.

(yes, Baz, I am aware of the irony).

--------------SoapySam is a pathetic asswiper. Joe G

BTW, when you make little jabs like â€śI thought basic logic was one thing UDers could handle,â€ť you come off looking especially silly when you turn out to be wrong. - Barry Arrington

Odder than Odd Jock McOdd. He could just ban you, without spending a couple of paragraphs drumming up a reason! To the disinterested observer, the only 'incriminating' factor seems to be that you were spotted at UD and DID NOT reply to this (fucking arcane) question about superposition and Jupiter, and therefore cannot say you were at your mum's. But why you would post that you had responded, then not ... Wouldn't be like a lawyer to twist things to suit the argument though, would it?

I AM BARRY, HEAR ME ROAR! You WILL answer my question (and no answer will not suffice; you cannot answer it and not-answer it at the same time).

Meh. It is their bat, ball and pitch, I guess.

Good work, BTW. It's not just that I tend to agree with you, but that you are very readable and clear. Ironically, one of the UD-ers who is reasonably readable and clear is Baz A himself.

--------------SoapySam is a pathetic asswiper. Joe G

BTW, when you make little jabs like â€śI thought basic logic was one thing UDers could handle,â€ť you come off looking especially silly when you turn out to be wrong. - Barry Arrington

Incidentally, it takes many forms. Apprently, there are 450 public employees at present working on legislating for hospital staff to be forbidden to use the terms, ‘mother’ and ‘father’, for fear of offending the sensibilities of homosexuals.

Quote

I should have said, ‘militant’ homosexuals. There is a difference between them and most homosexuals, I believe.

Quote

Also, in your dismissiveness, you forgot the primary-school children raping and sodomising their little class-mates.

In today’s papers, two young women, each with a baby sired by the young man in the middle of the photo. We’ll leave their sexuality out of it, since there is no arguing with homosexual lobbyists, however “ad hoc”. The immemorial wisdom of nature’s nuclear family is despised by today’s atheist know-nothings.

Not surprisingly, Barry thinks Johnson's 'refutation' of Berkeley was good logic when it actually was one of Johnson's low points as a thinker. To Berkeley, the rock, the shoe, the leg, the kick, and the 'refutation' are all mental constructs and thus fit nicely into the idealist model. Rather than refuting idealism, Johnson gets swallowed up by it.

For the record, I'm not an idealist, but I tire of hearing that story cited as if it were a devastating rebuttal of Berkeley. It reminds me of the dim-witted argument made by Gil Dodgen and others: "I make choices all day! Therefore free will exists!"

--------------And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G

In case you're wondering, yes, eigenstate did respond to Barry, and Barry is lying. Eigenstate preserved his response here, rightly anticipating that Barry might delete it. One of you who is more honest than Barry should post the link on the LNC thread. Barry might delete it (and you), but you'll know you've done the right thing.

--------------And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G