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Sorry, realized I might be coming across as a smart ass. Didn't really mean it that way. Point is, which I know Salim understands is that there are lots of examples to turn to to find application. All are good examples that can be found in waza.

Sorry, realized I might be coming across as a smart ass. Didn't really mean it that way. Point is, which I know Salim understands is that there are lots of examples to turn to to find application. All are good examples that can be found in waza.

Nah, I value your opinion. I'm not sensitive like some. I take it as a joke and like a little humor sometimes. You're probably right, it's Judo.

Yea it was a little bit of a joke. But, I think it is not so important what it is vice recognizing that the waza can be applicable and there are some universal principles, basic movements in all waza.

the difference, (and the importance), is the timing (as we are discussing on the other thread).

I think what is most important is looking at how the officer sets it up. the ma ai, body language, position of both, and then the decisive, explosive, deliberate manner in which he decides to enter and take balance and control.

the Ma'ai is what is most important and what happens. Timing. it is almost everything! A llittle O soto gari also, but timing.

The policeman closes the maai, creates an opening which the civilian does not take and then rushes the civilian. At no point the civilian is a threat, hands in pockets, not entering when the chance comes up, he is completely passive.

As things are in the video (and without a wider context), the use of force of this magnitude is completely misplaced.

The policeman closes the maai, creates an opening which the civilian does not take and then rushes the civilian. At no point the civilian is a threat, hands in pockets, not entering when the chance comes up, he is completely passive.

As things are in the video (and without a wider context), the use of force of this magnitude is completely misplaced.

I was curious about the context as well. It's a great shomen ate, but the other guy doesn't exactly seem to offer anything in the way of an attack. I guess you could call that a good use of maintaining the initiative?

As things are in the video (and without a wider context), the use of force of this magnitude is completely misplaced.

I agree 100%.
Wider context is needed. You tube videos can easly be edited WRT timelines, when they start and stop, to create a biased opinion.

A 13 second video of a cop striking a man who has his hands in his pockets could very well be from a 2 minute and 13 second video of said man pulling a knife on a police officer and stabbing them thrn running away, hiding trying to blend into a crowd then when found has his hands back in his pockets saying "hey man I don't wanna fight".

He could have a pistol behind his back in a waist band or had previously been extremely violent.

I saw a lunge and a strike to the throat; maybe if the civilian were coming at the gentleman in the yellow shirt (I find it difficult to use the title "officer" in this context) I would accept the argument it was an atemi. The civilian was standing still, with hands in pockets; if there was suspicion of a weapon on his person or he was suspected of an earlier attack, weapons drawn might have been the wiser choice for the responding units (but I am no armchair tactical officer!).

I think I have seen this video before, with sound and longer.
What you see here is what happens after the policeman have given
orders for the person to comply, and after last warning he takes charge and gets in control.

This is a very short clip from a longer segment of the TV show "Cops" filmed in Las Vegas. The suspect was drunk and non-compliant with several warnings to remove his hands from his pockets. As I recall, he had just been involved in another fracus.

I have often wondered how much having a TV show camera rolling prompts instances of "Kodak Courage" (the concept that you do things you wouldnt otherwise do if there were no camera) on that show, and this case in particular; unedited footage, 3rd warning within 15 seconds equals take down, and see the yellow shirts' body language at 0:41? See his legs? Body language to me, combined with his statement while climbing out of the cruiser ("...looks a little amped up...") doesn't help convince of anything other than looking for a reason to nail someone.

I wouldnt be surprised that the yellow shirt was the one who uttered the word that got bleeped. Disapointed, but in this context, not surprised.

Cops have dangerous jobs, no doubt about it. This looked a little premeditated, to me.

I have often wondered how much having a TV show camera rolling prompts instances of "Kodak Courage" (the concept that you do things you wouldnt otherwise do if there were no camera) on that show, and this case in particular; unedited footage, 3rd warning within 15 seconds equals take down, and see the yellow shirts' body language at 0:41? See his legs? Body language to me, combined with his statement while climbing out of the cruiser ("...looks a little amped up...") doesn't help convince of anything other than looking for a reason to nail someone.

I wouldnt be surprised that the yellow shirt was the one who uttered the word that got bleeped. Disapointed, but in this context, not surprised.

Cops have dangerous jobs, no doubt about it. This looked a little premeditated, to me.

I think the bleep was the civilian, but that video didn't make me feel better about the cop. I thought the civilian looked a little tightly wound, but I didn't see cause for the take-down. I'm not familiar with the law very well though and I'm betting a lawyer would have picked up on this video by now if the cop exceded his authority.
Still, great shomen ate! Looked almost like Shodokan kata to me.

I'm not familiar with the law very well though and I'm betting a lawyer would have picked up on this video by now if the cop exceded his authority.
Still, great shomen ate! Looked almost like Shodokan kata to me

I suppose that every community decides for itself the amount of violence it's law-keepers are allowed to employ. I have the good fortune of not living in that one.

As to the technique, it is applied to unresisting and unskilled person, so yeah it works, so what? Imagine this was a dojo and you are witnessing a yudansha smashing a first time student into the mat.

If all you see is the YouTube clip, then you can come to the conclusion that the force was excessive. If you see the longer version, you opinion might change. Then again it may not. There was more to this event than shown on YouTube.