If TT turns into AV, that's great. I don't want both those guys on the floor together.

Please go back and read again, I said when/IF they get a PF that he'll be a 7th/8th guy in the rotation. Being the starting PF (minus Jamo) on a depleted young team is like saying that Ken Dorsey was starting QB material when the other 2 in front of him went down.

Is his potential to be that type of defensive player the same as his potential to add a move or two to his O?

My example of Jamo being undersized is fair seeing that the C's threw over his head to Garnett all 6 games of that series. You believe that teams will not do the same to Thompson or will his outstanding jumping ability negate all that? 6'9" is undersized vs 6'11" and up vets who know the game.

When did Pts per 10 mins become a meaningful statistic or a stat at all? Shit, Vinny Johnson could light it up during his time in the ball game, but there was a reason his minutes were limited. Probably a simlar reason why TT isn't seeing 25-30 mins+

I'm not seeing the next Nowitzke by any means, but I like the kid's combination of quickness, length, ability to jump quickly and high, and work ethic. He looks lost and awkward, but somehow he's 4th in points per minute even though I'm convinced he doesn't know what hand he's going to shoot with until he releases the ball. I could be wrong on this, but he'll be more than a 7th/8th man once the rebuild is complete.

And Ara Parsegean wished his players had all of the above like that Ruettegar kid but what did that get Rudy. One meaningless play on speacial teams, a gift sack, and GomeZ Addams' kid to portray him. If TT is lucky, the Fresh Prince's kid can play him in the next b-ball movie regarding those who have a great work ethic but limited talent.

My head hurts now

Galley Boys are slop on top of a so-so burger and a bun you coulde get from a Covneninet food mart generic pack. They the Antoine Joubert of burgers; soft, sloppy, oozing grease and cheap sauce and extremely overrated by a biased fan base. Proof that if you throw enough cheap sauce shit on a burger you still can't overcome the lame burger. -JB

Larvell Blanks wrote:Please go back and read again, I said when/IF they get a PF that he'll be a 7th/8th guy in the rotation.

Understood. My response was to ask where they will get a better PF than Thompson when they desparately need starters to replace Casspi, who sucks, and Parker, who's toast. They'll use their top draft pick to fill one of those spots. NBA DraftExpress has either a SF or a SG rated 6, 10, 11, 12, 13, 15, and 16 as of right now. I can't believe the Cavs would use their top pick, probably in the 8-12 range, on a PF when they just used the #4 to get Thompson and the need is so great at two other positions.

If you think they'll use their cap space to target a free agent PF to make sure TT doesn't start, please let me know who this player might be.

As much as it might pain some people, the Cavs have commited to TT. No way they're going to write him off as just an "energy guy" off the bench at age 20.

My example of Jamo being undersized is fair seeing that the C's threw over his head to Garnett all 6 games of that series. You believe that teams will not do the same to Thompson or will his outstanding jumping ability negate all that? 6'9" is undersized vs 6'11" and up vets who know the game.

When I see opponents lobbing passes over TT's head because he's too short and doesn't jump well enough to stop them, I'll buy you a beer.

When did Pts per 10 mins become a meaningful statistic or a stat at all? Shit, Vinny Johnson could light it up during his time in the ball game, but there was a reason his minutes were limited. Probably a simlar reason why TT isn't seeing 25-30 mins+

I could have made it points per minute, but then the numbers would be decimals. Multiplying by 10 just puts it in better perspective for comparison purposes. I thought that would be obvious.

One reason his FG percentage is low is because he gets a lot of offensive rebounds in traffic and then gets his shot blocked when he tries to force it back up. Scott is working with him on passing the ball out to the perimeter when he's trapped under the backboard or doesn't have a clear path to the rim. As he learns to do this his shooting percentage should improve.

Two classic examples in one thread - examples of not watching the GD game, apparently.

Cause I don't give a rats ass what calculator gets you points per minute, or if his old high school coach phoned you and said he was gonna score, anyone watching the games, with half a brain can see his entire offensive skillset is putbacks.

So to summarize, we got one guy who thinks a guy who's been playing back to the basket in TV Land, for all of us to see the past two years is comparable to Kevin Love - and another who has apparently watched Tristan Thompson nearly every God Damned night and can't figure out he's awful offensively, and furthermore that same preson can't comprehend why you can't have him and a player just like him on the court at the same time.

And people think I'm the asshole for the 90% rule and refusing to believe some guys actually watch the games.

43% is low, I agree, but with a little experience and better shot selection I can see him getting up to the 47 area, which is acceptable considering what he brings in rebounding and defense.

Clearly some people have made up their minds that he sucks offensively and always will, and nothing will convince them otherwise. I'm not one of them. I think he's got a chance to be a 15 and 12 guy along with being named to the NBA All-Defensive team when his career peaks out. If somebody else wants to believe his offensive skills have peaked at this point in his career, fine with me. One thing I've learned from this board is that nobody ever changes their mind on anything once they've formed an opinion.

And people think I'm the asshole for the 90% rule and refusing to believe some guys actually watch the games.

Speaking only for myself, I don't think you're the asshole on this board, although you certainly try.

As the overall 4th pick in the draft we should not be relying on what his potential COULD be. As the 4th overall he should have an established skill and needs to improve in other areas. Hard working and coachable should be picked in the 2nd round or on a deep team.

In a league that doesn't have 6 too many teams, TT would be competing w/ M.L. Carr's record of towel waving.

Galley Boys are slop on top of a so-so burger and a bun you coulde get from a Covneninet food mart generic pack. They the Antoine Joubert of burgers; soft, sloppy, oozing grease and cheap sauce and extremely overrated by a biased fan base. Proof that if you throw enough cheap sauce shit on a burger you still can't overcome the lame burger. -JB

As the overall 4th pick in the draft we should not be relying on what his potential COULD be. As the 4th overall he should have an established skill and needs to improve in other areas. Hard working and coachable should be picked in the 2nd round or on a deep team.

In a league that doesn't have 6 too many teams, TT would be competing w/ M.L. Carr's record of towel waving.

Well said, my man.

I think the Cavs were looking more for a player with an upside than a guy with "an established skill". Otherwise they would have drafted someone like Jimmer Fredette. What player with an established skill would you have wanted them to take at #4?

Yes, Thompson is hard-working and coachable. He's quick, strong, and athletic and can put his hand above the box. He's already demonstrated the ability to block shots, get offensive boards at nearly the same rate as Andy, and force missed shots without fouling. His offensive game is limited, but after watching him blow by Kaman for that two-handed dunk the other night, I can't believe his offensive potential is zero, especially since he's already 4th on the team in points per minute.

For those who say this 20-year-old has maxed out his potential after 31 NBA games and can't possibly improve with coaching and experience, I respectfully disagree.

But I doubt blowing by Chris Kaman is really going to sway too many opinions for offensive upside.

Galley Boys are slop on top of a so-so burger and a bun you coulde get from a Covneninet food mart generic pack. They the Antoine Joubert of burgers; soft, sloppy, oozing grease and cheap sauce and extremely overrated by a biased fan base. Proof that if you throw enough cheap sauce shit on a burger you still can't overcome the lame burger. -JB

I think the Cavs were looking more for a player with an upside than a guy with "an established skill". Otherwise they would have drafted someone like Jimmer Fredette. What player with an established skill would you have wanted them to take at #4?

Yes, Thompson is hard-working and coachable. He's quick, strong, and athletic and can put his hand above the box. He's already demonstrated the ability to block shots, get offensive boards at nearly the same rate as Andy, and force missed shots without fouling. His offensive game is limited, but after watching him blow by Kaman for that two-handed dunk the other night, I can't believe his offensive potential is zero, especially since he's already 4th on the team in points per minute.

For those who say this 20-year-old has maxed out his potential after 31 NBA games and can't possibly improve with coaching and experience, I respectfully disagree.

TEAMS THAT HAVE THE AMOUNT OF TALENT THE CAVS HAVE SHOULD NOT BLOW A 4TH OVERALL PICK ON UPSIDE.

Galley Boys are slop on top of a so-so burger and a bun you coulde get from a Covneninet food mart generic pack. They the Antoine Joubert of burgers; soft, sloppy, oozing grease and cheap sauce and extremely overrated by a biased fan base. Proof that if you throw enough cheap sauce shit on a burger you still can't overcome the lame burger. -JB

I think the Cavs were looking more for a player with an upside than a guy with "an established skill". Otherwise they would have drafted someone like Jimmer Fredette. What player with an established skill would you have wanted them to take at #4?

Yes, Thompson is hard-working and coachable. He's quick, strong, and athletic and can put his hand above the box. He's already demonstrated the ability to block shots, get offensive boards at nearly the same rate as Andy, and force missed shots without fouling. His offensive game is limited, but after watching him blow by Kaman for that two-handed dunk the other night, I can't believe his offensive potential is zero, especially since he's already 4th on the team in points per minute.

For those who say this 20-year-old has maxed out his potential after 31 NBA games and can't possibly improve with coaching and experience, I respectfully disagree.

TEAMS THAT HAVE THE AMOUNT OF TALENT THE CAVS HAVE SHOULD NOT BLOW A 4TH OVERALL PICK ON UPSIDE.

I don't have a problem with upside.

I have a problem with no discernible basketball skills after a season at a major US college program.

I have a problem with no discernible basketball skills after a season at a major US college program.

No discernable basketball skills? Maybe you should look a little harder, jb.

According to ESPN, Thompson is 6th among all NBA players in offensive rebounds per minute. Varajao is 5th. Enes Kanter, by the way, is 2nd. I don't know - does offensive rebounding count as a "basketball skill". Or do you put it in the same category as pre-game dunking - interesting but not relevant to the outcome of the game?

Not impressed? How about shot blocking? TT is blocking 3.00 shots per 48 minutes, which puts him 2nd among NBA power forwards and 4th among all players. Somebody named Dwight Howard is 5th at 2.76.

Now hold on, before folks start shooting themselves in the fucking face, let me say I'm not claiming TT is a better shot blocker than Dewey, even though he does it more frequently. Dewey's been around a while and guys know not to challenge him, whereas they haven't learned to look out for TT yet. I'm just saying that if shot blocking, and altering shots, which shot blockers tend to do, qualifies as a basketball skill, then TT has it.

Defensive rebounding? Not sure if that's a skill or not, but TT only ranks 68th out of the 339 players Hollinger lists. Dirk Nowitzke is 63rd, David Lee is 69th. He's doing OK, but could improve, IMO.

Hollinger combines all his numbers into an overall rating he calls PER, which I'm sure we're all familiar with. TT is ranked 185 out of 339, or slightly below average. Obviously his FG shooting, free throw shooting, and lack of 3-point shots and assists pull him down. I think the hatred for TT on this board is due mainly to the fact that he is a #4 pick with obvious offensive shortcomings, which obscure the positive things he does. He's already among the top 10 offensive rebounders and shot blockers in the league after 25 pro games. But overall he's an average player, and fans wanted more from a #4 pick.

I think his biggest value down the road in addition to offensive rebounding will be simply forcing opponents to miss shots. IMO, he does a nice job of moving his feet to keep his body in front of the shooter, then getting a hand up to challenge the shot and force a miss. Unfortunately, they don't keep stats on that. But I'll be watching closely every time he's isolated and the opponent tries to score on him.

Tristan Thompson: +/- is second worst on the team at -69, Cavs are scoring at 93 point per hundred and are giving up 104 points per hundred and his net adj is fourth worst on the team, ahead of only Eyenga, Harangody and Erden and just behind Hollins. It also should be noted TT has played 28% of the Cavs minutes whereas none of the other net +/- sucks have played more than 10%.

None of those stats are biblical, but ole cherry pick Pros is conveniently ignoring his old go-to.

Also, of the Cavs 20 top used 5 man units, Thompson appears in 7 of them. Of those 7 three have an eFG% over 40% (no way this could inflate offensive boards) with a his of.... 43%!!!!

MONSTER

At least his limited minutes per game can be extrapolated out to 48 minutes (who in the fuck uses this measure, 36 is far more realistic and the standard) to prove him a top five shot blocker in the league!!!

I know, I swore I wasn't reading you anymore, but I just can't take the stupidity. Now if you'll excuse me I have to go shoot myself in the face so that I can remove the scars of reading one of your top five all time dumbest posts.

Last edited by e0y2e3 on Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Also, he only attempts half of his field goals at the rim where he has a whopping 55% FG%, which is matched by most quality PGs.

Since you don't watch the games and want stats Pros, we can keep going.

Lastly, if you want to look at fucking rebounding stats please look at ORR, DRR and TRR, which is the rebounds a player gets while on the floor out of total rebounds available. All of which with TT show as "meh!!" "sample size" and "bad shooting creates offensive rebounds!!"

When's the last time a Cavs-Pistons game thread actually took up 3 pages, that should be the bigger accomplishment here.

Galley Boys are slop on top of a so-so burger and a bun you coulde get from a Covneninet food mart generic pack. They the Antoine Joubert of burgers; soft, sloppy, oozing grease and cheap sauce and extremely overrated by a biased fan base. Proof that if you throw enough cheap sauce shit on a burger you still can't overcome the lame burger. -JB

If anyone in this actual draft thought for five seconds Jared Sullinger was going to magically completely change his game and become Kevin Love he would go #1 overall, he is not and will not because he isn't fucking Kevin Love (again, probably the single most unique player in the NBA).

I'm glad Steve Kerr (who was fired and is now a TV talking head) stated at some point that Sullinger and Love are both unathletic PFs and that has you delusionally pretending like you are right.