So went out and shot it yesterday, Had some probems. Using Fiocchi 230 ball ammo loaded straight into the cylinder with no moon clips had numerous non fires when the hammer barely touched the primmer. Is this normal with all ammo or are the fiocchis a little short. used moon clips and had two no fires in 100 rounds...any addvice,,,

This revolver is designed for use with moon clips. The clips provide not only a means of extracting the rimless .45 ACP cases, but also headspacing. The shoulder in the cylinder is not meant to provide a headspacing means for the auto pistol cartridge. If it does, the ammo is probably made a little long or it has soft primers. The Fiocchi ammo may have hard primers that were not set off from the light hammer strikes.

Shooting this gun w/o the moon clips is a very bad idea. Even if the primer sets off the round, the case will be forced to the rear (recoil shield) with abnormal force. This can be very hazardous to the alloy frame. I would not do it regularly in a steel framed revolver.

The .45 ACP revos formerly headspaced on either the case mouth or with the half moon and full moon clips. S&W then made an engineering decision to deepen the chambers. That probably eliminated a problem with chambering cases of excess length, while creating the problem of excess chamber length for normal cases. One possible cure for those who don't want to use clips at the range is to install a longer firing pin. Cylinder and Slide shop makes one. It works to reach the primers on short cases headspacing on the case mouth.

Shooting this gun w/o the moon clips is a very bad idea. Even if the primer sets off the round, the case will be forced to the rear (recoil shield) with abnormal force. This can be very hazardous to the alloy frame. I would not do it regularly in a steel framed revolver.

Are you saying .45 Auto Rim would severly batter this gun? Seems to be great oversight on the part of Smith & Wesson. One of the advantages of the earliest Smiths over the Colts was the fact the Smith could fire .45 ACP without clips while the contemporary Colts could not. Colt corrected this fault in later guns, the New Service and M1917s.

Are you saying .45 Auto Rim would severly batter this gun? Seems to be great oversight on the part of Smith & Wesson. One of the advantages of the earliest Smiths over the Colts was the fact the Smith could fire .45 ACP without clips while the contemporary Colts could not. Colt corrected this fault in later guns, the New Service and M1917s.

Bob Wright

The .45 Auto Rim cartridge was designed for these guns not the other way around. The Auto Rim rim is thicker than a "normal' rimmed cartridge to mimic the dimensions of the ACP + moon clip.

__________________

In life, strive to take the high road....It offers a better field of fire.
"Robo is right" Fuzzball

Incidentally, the primer is still going to impact the recoil shield, with or without clips, and set-back is required to re-seat the primer.

Bob Wright

True, but there is more impact if the case is allowed to build momentum by travelling farther before impacting the recoil shield. Not a huge deal in a steel frame gun, but the alloy frame revolver in question is not as strong.

__________________

In life, strive to take the high road....It offers a better field of fire.
"Robo is right" Fuzzball

What you say makes sense, in a way. What doesn't make sense is that Smith & Wesson would design a gun that is marginally safe. But, with the deeper shoulder of the chambers, .45 ACP is not likely to fire without the clips, so maybe that's their way out.

Never cared for alloy framed revolvers anyway, always prefer steel and wood. I do have one alloy revolver, a Smith Model 442, but it stays in my desk drawer most of the time, just in case.

I've had a number of .45 ACP revolvers, both DA and SA. The DA guns were Colt or Smith Model 1917s, one Smith Model 625, and of course my Ruger Blackhawks.

I tried to find a beater of a Model 629 with the intentions of using the barel from the 625 and chambering it to .45 S & W. Was planning on doing some kind of defensive match shooting, though the .45 S&W would give better extraction, and didn't want to fool around with those steel clips. Never came to fruition, though. Only stainless steel gun I ever owned, traded it off for a Blackhawk or something like that.

Shooting this gun w/o the moon clips is a very bad idea. Even if the primer sets off the round, the case will be forced to the rear (recoil shield) with abnormal force. This can be very hazardous to the alloy frame. I would not do it regularly in a steel framed revolver.

In steel framed guns, the headspace is the same, with or without clips. Only this new alloy has the deep chambers.