Wow. Graphic. *rolls eyes*I guess no one alive ever saw picture from 'Nam, or WWII or WWI or what the US Calvary did with the "insurgents" here in the USA that "needed" to be executed, every man, woman, and child.Every time you sen in the US Marines, for the last 200 years, this has happened, and every time people act surprised.

what_now:Treating the corpses with respect keeps the locals from turning on the troops. This rule isn't because we hold the dead in respect, it's to protect the military from rioting locals.

I'm familiar with the principles of the COIN fight. But the Muslim rule is "in the ground in 24 hours". I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the insurgents' families weren't going to come out and grab the corpses to prepare for burial during the freakin' Battle of Fallujah.

So, if the Marines had left the bodies laying out for more than a day, they'd also be in violation of Islamic custom.

I don't even know if the photos are real, I'm not looking at those while I'm at work. I'm just saying that sometimes, in combat, there aren't a whole lot of good answers available.

Not enough information. It's not hard to come up with a story that satisfies particulars in this case, though. If nothing else, "no one would claim them, no one would bury them in Islamic custom, hygiene issue."

what_now:Gonz: I'm just saying that sometimes, in combat, there aren't a whole lot of good answers available.

I am absolutely sure that is accurate.

As much as I'd like to point and say, "See! B-b-but Bush endorsed this!", I cna't turn this into a partisan thing. If I were in a desert, surrounded by people who may or may not want to kill me, after witnessing the death of friends and fellow soldiers...not sure I'd be one of the guys following the rules. And I would feel totally justified in my actions.

Treating the corpses with respect keeps the locals from turning on the troops. This rule isn't because we hold the dead in respect, it's to protect the military from rioting locals.

Napalm the rioting locals. Yet another reason we farked up this war. You want to win wars? Do what we did in WWII. Beat them into total, abject, bloody submission. We did not do that to Iraq, hence this bullshiat. Leave our warriors alone. They did NOT decide to go there. They were sent. By us. Go after the idiots who sent them there then told them to play nice.

mark12A:Treating the corpses with respect keeps the locals from turning on the troops. This rule isn't because we hold the dead in respect, it's to protect the military from rioting locals.

Napalm the rioting locals. Yet another reason we farked up this war. You want to win wars? Do what we did in WWII. Beat them into total, abject, bloody submission. We did not do that to Iraq, hence this bullshiat. Leave our warriors alone. They did NOT decide to go there. They were sent. By us. Go after the idiots who sent them there then told them to play nice.

I take you also approved of the guy that went and shot up a bunch of women and children in the middle of the night, then?

Felgraf:mark12A: Treating the corpses with respect keeps the locals from turning on the troops. This rule isn't because we hold the dead in respect, it's to protect the military from rioting locals.

Napalm the rioting locals. Yet another reason we farked up this war. You want to win wars? Do what we did in WWII. Beat them into total, abject, bloody submission. We did not do that to Iraq, hence this bullshiat. Leave our warriors alone. They did NOT decide to go there. They were sent. By us. Go after the idiots who sent them there then told them to play nice.

I take you also approved of the guy that went and shot up a bunch of women and children in the middle of the night, then?

Weaver95:Felgraf: mark12A: Treating the corpses with respect keeps the locals from turning on the troops. This rule isn't because we hold the dead in respect, it's to protect the military from rioting locals.

Napalm the rioting locals. Yet another reason we farked up this war. You want to win wars? Do what we did in WWII. Beat them into total, abject, bloody submission. We did not do that to Iraq, hence this bullshiat. Leave our warriors alone. They did NOT decide to go there. They were sent. By us. Go after the idiots who sent them there then told them to play nice.

I take you also approved of the guy that went and shot up a bunch of women and children in the middle of the night, then?

In the spirit of the headline, I should point out that ghilan are not to be trifled with. Not sure about Islam's current stance on them regarding reality vs. folklore, but it might make for a decent movie, if not a proper excuse in the international arena...

fighting for your life and seeing your friends die can sometimes make you bent at the enemy your country is busy sympathizing withamerica wants it both ways, like calling in an exterminator who catches all the mice and frees them in the woodsclean, safe, out of sightit doesn't work like that

Thank Buddha, Allah, Brahma, Vishnu, Siva, trees, mushrooms, and Isadora Duncan that I never experienced through combat and because of this I can never fully understand those emotions....or lack thereof if you will...I did read Eugene Sledge's book though (3 times) and the quote in my Weeners in this thread (take that filter!) comes from the introduction. The book itself details what exactly that quote means.

I don't see the problem with this because they couldn't leave the bodies out to rot as it would be a health hazard and they really couldn't take time to bury them because they were in the middle of an on going battle.

But what is disgusting is the attitude that some people have that because the Taliban desecrated American soldier's bodies it is all right for American's to do it to them. That attitude is just wrong because we are supposed to take the moral high ground and not stoop to their level.

what_now:Gonz: "If authentic, the photos show service members violating the military code that requires them to handle the remains of fallen Muslim insurgents in strict accordance with Islamic custom."

You know, I'm having a hard time getting too outraged over this. "It's OK to kill 'em, but don't cremate them" seems like splitting hairs.

Treating the corpses with respect keeps the locals from turning on the troops. This rule isn't because we hold the dead in respect, it's to protect the military from rioting locals.

What should protect the military from rioting locals is the fact that the military can and will freaking shoot you dead.

Felgraf I take you also approved of the guy that went and shot up a bunch of women and children in the middle of the night, then?

That's a violation of ROE-poster was talking about How To Win A War. My neighbor who was in the newsroom of the LA Times put it thusly-just like in "Lone Survivor", the Iraqis didn't know they lost. Back when my neighbor was in the Army, stationed in Germany back in the 1950's, he noted the locals were STILL afraid to look servicemen in the eyes-that's how badly we beat the Nazis. All my friends who were shipped to The Sandbox for Desert Shield/Storm wasted their time because we got no credit off of that-same with Sarajevo. On the contrary, Desert Storm/Shield only begot us 9/11 & all that War On Terror stuff

Chances are the guys involved with this are already out of the military. It was a battle with sustained combat so they may have felt that disposing of the bodies was the least bad option. However it is wonderful to give some PR tools to radical Islamic individuals out there to use as a recruitment tool for some minor offense that occurred almost 10 years ago.

budrojr:what_now: Gonz: "If authentic, the photos show service members violating the military code that requires them to handle the remains of fallen Muslim insurgents in strict accordance with Islamic custom."

You know, I'm having a hard time getting too outraged over this. "It's OK to kill 'em, but don't cremate them" seems like splitting hairs.

Treating the corpses with respect keeps the locals from turning on the troops. This rule isn't because we hold the dead in respect, it's to protect the military from rioting locals.

What should protect the military from rioting locals is the fact that the military can and will freaking shoot you dead.

I have to hang my head a little every time one of these things comes up. Sure the photo evidence helps shine light on potentially sketchy things (dicking around with corpses is not cool, burning them is potentially okay if they had no access to a corpse detail nor local support), but what possesses them to photograph things they can't not know could be considered sketchy is beyond me.

qorkfiend:budrojr: what_now: Gonz: "If authentic, the photos show service members violating the military code that requires them to handle the remains of fallen Muslim insurgents in strict accordance with Islamic custom."

You know, I'm having a hard time getting too outraged over this. "It's OK to kill 'em, but don't cremate them" seems like splitting hairs.

Treating the corpses with respect keeps the locals from turning on the troops. This rule isn't because we hold the dead in respect, it's to protect the military from rioting locals.

What should protect the military from rioting locals is the fact that the military can and will freaking shoot you dead.

So, you are telling me, that if we train people to have no respect for the "enemy", try and stay with me on this, that they will treat people they see as the "enemy" with no respect. That just sounds too crazy.

Yeah, let's not compare Tarawa with Afghanistan. I get where you're going with this, and I agree, but the Pacific Theater in WWII was worse than you or I can possibly imagine. Probably worse than Ypers.