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Not about change. Flaws are flaws no matter how endearing they are, because you could say all together that's what they are for. It's to engage the viewer into the character. Sometimes for stories and sometimes for humor. When flaws are overcome, that is character development like you said. Dento didn't *technically* one could argue though.

So tl;dr:

Dento has flaws, but he has not developed from them. But that's ok because he is a fun, energetic character. He doesn't need to in order to be enjoyable.

Last edited by JennaJayfeather; 3rd March 2013 at 4:12 AM.

“...This is a tricky problem, huh. I really, really want to see the other Heroes... and if it works out, I want to make friends with them! If I made friends with six Heroes, I’d be an awesome mage! We could even conquer the world!”

Ash: Yes, I´ve always thought that he should left after Orange Islands and change the main character just like in Pokémon SpecialBrock: I don´t want to get another warning so I will just say "WTF!?"Iris: That guy says that BW is vomit and the creators of that season should commit sepukku for doing such an abomination so ... that would upset himMisty: Togepi was her doom, and she got a very crappy ending

Ash: Yes, I´ve always thought that he should left after Orange Islands and change the main character just like in Pokémon SpecialBrock: I don´t want to get another warning so I will just say "WTF!?"Iris: That guy says that BW is vomit and the creators of that season should commit sepukku for doing such an abomination so ... that would upset himMisty: Togepi was her doom, and she got a very crappy ending

Ash: I must agree, they've dragged him on for far too long. I don't support character replacing, but I don't have much faith in the writers to make him good again.
Iris: That is some awesome vomit!! :P Hah, kidding
Misty: Agreed about the crappy ending, as for Togepi, I disagree.

And an example of a "well written" Pokémon anime character would be ...

depends on what you view as well written. :/...

No matter how it good it gets, people will complain about it being able to be better. Its called "endless desire". XD I've seen it where some of the "best" and "most well written" things are criticized beyond belief just based upon preference.

So really. I could consider Ash well written by this annoying ever-changing (Or subjective) standard. He fufills his purpose to his audience no? >:/

I Consider Dawn to be well written enough. I consider Iris to be written well enough. I consider Dento to be written well enough for me to like him. Which is the point of a show and such. (You know, to invoke an emotional response. :P)

That's funny because a while ago when we were discussing the way Cilan becomes arrogant when he battles people like Burgundy, I could've sworn that certain people defended that part of his personality claiming that it made him interesting and that it wasn't really an issue. How things change.

I don't think he's changed at all to begin with, so I'm actually confused as to why some people think he has. Like, he was the same when he debuted as he is now. I don't think he learned anything new or changed as a person. The same could be said about previous male companions like Brock and Tracey; the guys just don't develop the way the girls do for some reason. I'm not sure if that's intentional or a coincidence, but it's definitely worth looking into. I just want to know what it is that makes some people believe Cilan has matured as a Connoisseur.

^ Well I was just taking general things that people can think of as a flaw (I guess they don't have to lol).

But I don't know. I guess because when I hear "Dento has no flaws" I don't really think of his wiser-Sommelier side, the first image to pop in my head of him is the scene where his face is planted against a screen looking at the "driver's seat." That's not normal lol. He just feels so childish when he's supposed to be the "mature one". I guess that could be another reason he feels like he has "flaws" to me, but this probably comes with how much you like the character. I mean, when you like something you take a lot of notice into them, maybe even too much but that's more of my opinion, I guess.

“...This is a tricky problem, huh. I really, really want to see the other Heroes... and if it works out, I want to make friends with them! If I made friends with six Heroes, I’d be an awesome mage! We could even conquer the world!”

The writers are probably setting him aside at the moment because they have plans for him that can't be fulfilled at the current place in the show. Plus, Iris most likely has less time left. Her place is in Unova, mainly in Opelucid, where she will eventually hone her skills and become champion. Cilan, though, doesn't continue with being a gym leader, as shown in BW2. He'll try to become a better Connoisseur. If you think about it, Burgundy and Cilan also speak a little bit of French, I believe. The new Gen VI region is supposedly based off of France. Maybe that is the origin place of the Connoisseurs, where the best go to complete their training and become an S-Rank. Cilan could go with Ash and probably have a huge role.

I've gotten into IV Breeding. I'll breed any Pokemon that can, just ask and I'll see what I can do!

As far as Cilan goes everything he did so far portrayed him as competent and confident person in almost every aspect. He is good at fishing,resolving mysteries,cooking without experiencing any failures not having to prove himself to anyone or overcome some obstacle.

Some may say Cilan lack of any real flaws may be because he isn't intended to go through big development with main purpose lying in being like older caretaker/big brother of group who cooks, takes care of them and brings stability in main cast while bring comedy and entertainment value in cast with his fun quirks.
That's true, though on negative side this hinders his potential to grow further in character sense being easier for such type of characters to end up static and stale eventually due to not having any real flaws or set path to shake him up providing new, fresh twists to story and characterization.

I guess in end Cilan saving grace which gives him potential to last for multiple generations is extreme versatility he has as character having various quirks and hobbies. Making all that easier for writers to keep him active and take in new directions through his various interests which could evolve in something bigger to compensate for passiveness of his original goal at times.

Originally Posted by Squirtle_007

Ehh ... OK, we have a winner

May rules (n_n)!

That's highly subjective. Every character has its share of well and badly written moments.

Originally Posted by Squirtle_007

Ash: Yes, I´ve always thought that he should left after Orange Islands and change the main character just like in Pokémon Special

Personally i thought Ash was handled pretty good in Hoenn being refreshing to see him in light of more mature trainer taking role of mentor to may, and to some smaller extent in Sinnoh.

Misty: Togepi was her doom, and she got a very crappy ending

Agreed about ending, but as far as Togepi goes i disagree. If anything Togepi played valuable role being step toward Misty becoming more mature and independent breaking from sister shadow and learning to appreciate more her friends or pokemon. While retaining her charm and enjoyable quirks still being full of fire and snark in more subtle manner.

In characterization Misty was one of few which stayed interesting after development imo with changing proving to be positive to her in Johto, chronicles and AG enriching personality. She was definitely complex imo.

Originally Posted by aloasa

I saw that Misty was very crap on in Johto, I still think that it should of been Crystal the one that accompany Ash on Johto and just use her for Kanto and Orange Islands, the only reason why she was there was because of the fact that Gold and Silver included Kanto gym leaders, but I digress

Its hard to view for me someone as "crap" considering she received more development, battling and focus on her own story and dreams in Johto being on large part source of appeal and humor in Johto making several episodes which would be otherwise mediocre in watchable ones.

Such view imo only encourage uncreative writing, since instead of having writers confront their mistakes investing more in someone recapturing his appeal among viewers all problems are swept under the rug by choosing easier way of introducing someone else who goes through basic growth ending in same boat. Not being forced to learn on mistakes they made with someone coming up with innovative, fresh ways to keep him fun and build on storyline giving them more substantial growth. Something which never happens because character always leave after learning basics.

I honestly don't think that Cilan is in the dark that much, but I'm a little surprised that I haven't seen anyone else bring this up;

Why is Cilan afraid of Purrloin? This issue has only been touched a few times, but it seems like there has to be some important reason why. Perhaps that certain character trait will recieve some central focus in the Plasma arc, seeing they're fond of Dark-Types--at least in the game, anyways...I'm not sure if they follow that in the anime.

Its like hes become D/P Brock 2.0, both he and Iris are sidekicks yet for some reason they are giving Iris special treatment, why is that? I'm confused. I'm not trying to hate on Iris, you'd think they'd give Dento as much as Iris is all. Do the writers hate male sidekicks or some thing?

Newsflash, Dento was always Brock 2.0 after the Clubplosion. The writers just don't know how to do male companions or female rivals any better than they have always been handling them. Poorly. This is why gymleader boys shouldn't be on the show. This is why I like Tracey more than both of them.

Look another thread where we get to Cilan complainers complaing about Iris complainers. I've gotten to the point where I just don't care anymore, about Iris' rushed and meandered "development" or Cilan's lack-there-of, and repetitive gimmiks. If this series get's even worse as it goes through the years, it wouldn't surprise me. Far as I'm concerned all the characters in Best Wishes are poorly written, and lack decent development.

This. The writing for Best Wishes and their characters have been aweful since day one. It started with Ash, then Trip then everyone else. They it started to get worse for some(Burgundy) and even worse for others(Cameron). I wasn't surprised that Cilan was going to be another one of those characters that the writers seemed like they forgot or just don't want to get a care to.

I like Cilan but I think he would have worked better back in DP when Dawn was on the show. If DP was Ash, Dawn, Cilan....DP would have been more entertaining to watch.

You really don't know that Cyber. He might have been just as over the top as he was in the first part of BW and boring in BW2. Just because he interacted with Dawn well in Unova doesn't mean he would have in Sinnoh. Besides, Cilan is abit like Dawn in a sort of sparkly type of way. They would have clashed too much with each other now looking back.

I think Cilan's just starting to wane a bit in entertainment because his sparkling, spinning, sommelier gags, etc. have been done a fair amount by this point and I would desperately prefer some character development, depth, or plot-line in his character. They did give him a rival after all, I just want him to be challenged as a character and struggle in a way. I find that more enriching than him trying to find a lost Cubchoo tbh. I was expecting him to have lost to Burgundy at least once by now, Dewott battling and defeating Pansage but that might end Burgundy's motive for being his rival since she's only his rival for revenge's sake. I would at least like him to have development.