Yeah I don't follow the group very closely so I am probably wrong about the number of side acts. I could be mis-recognizing other big idol group competitors (like Passpo and stuff) as AKB spin-offs too. But, I just get the general sense that they are reaching media saturation and it is already confusing to keep track of the entire AKB family.

I'm pretty sure H!O has a subbed version and unsubbed version, whichever you prefer, and they should still have plenty of seeders.

And I know what you mean about wanting to associate most random acts you see on the scene today as some spin-off of AKB after you have a sense of their popularity, but in reality its usually not the case, since there aren't very many.

He wanted a place where there were images of the girls with their names. I did a thread dedicated to them. I was just surprised he never saw it. :<

Thanks for that link, PQ. I don't know if it'll help, though. Problem is that once I get past the recognizable girls I can't process the others. There's one whom I'd like to identify, but there are at least a dozen pictures there that look like her. There's a certain type that Akimoto seems to like and he's just filled the group with that type.

Here's a shot of her from FNS:She's second from right, in between Haruna and Yuko. She's one of the main girls and I feel I ought to know her name. Unless, of course, I'm confusing her with another one.

Anyone?

Thanks.

While we're at it, who's the one on the left? I didn't see her picture in PQ's post.

That's Matsui Rena, who is more a part of SKE48 than she is of AKB, but her and fellow SKE48 member Matsui Jurina (not sisters) both appear in AKB singles and events pretty often because of their popularity. That's why you wouldn't normally see hers or Jurina's name on a regular AKB48 member list.

I can understand why they add in a lot of the girls from other groups. The franchise is mostly supported by AKB48 first and foremost and it's good for the other groups to get exposure through them. But JKT? I don't think having one of them in the song helps them out back in Indonesia.

Yeah, people are getting so goddamn butthurt over this senbatsu, but Its one of the best and most concise ones I know of. The only person from the main single senbatsu that I don't care about it Sashihara. Yui and Rie getting senbatsu is fucking <3. This is just another one of those extremely irritating things that makes you start to hate idol fandom, when people are so fucking shallow and still can't get past their own stupid dispositions of what members are leading a single or whatever, especially when you probably see each member for a total of 15 seconds or so in every video, ever. They don't care about the music or actually supporting the group as a whole, they just like to whine and cause drama over these stupid ass rankings. I, for one, will be buying Give Me Five, and maybe multiple versions if the b-sides are a good as the a-side, cause the a-side kicks some major ass.

OK, so now AKB48 is officially the best idol group in history. Where Tsunku tried and failed with Buono and THE Possible, Aki-P has won. I'm so in awe from seeing this I can't even believe my eyes and ears.

This may end up being their best single yet if the rest of the stuff surrounding this release is anywhere near as awesome as this video. Now anyone who says these girls are talentless can go jump off a fucking cliff.

I think they should just stick to playback. It was cute, but it was also pretty messy, especially for something that didn't sound very difficult to play. Awe-inspiring is one of the last words I'd use. Performing isn't really their strong suit, and I don't think it ever will be.

You've completely missed the point, as its not meant to be a piano concerto or a symphonic masterpiece, its a beginner's piece, meant to show that they are learning. Sounds like you have a pretty sardonic disposition and/or don't really know how hard it is to play things and sing at the same time, especially when you just started learning at the instrument you're playing, since you belittle their efforts because it doesn't sound like a polished recording. Many live performances are not about having a perfect, tight sound, they're about having fun and high energy. Also, please name an idol group who has succeeded at live instrument performance on this level. Carry on.

They did really good! I really like it! I heard they only practiced with the instruments for 5 months, and with AKB's busy schedule, I'm sure they only had a couple of hours every week.
It not being perfect makes it more fun, like a bunch of high schoolers who decide to throw together a band and play a song at their graduation ceremony~

OK, so now AKB48 is officially the best idol group in history. Where Tsunku tried and failed with Buono and THE Possible, Aki-P has won. I'm so in awe from seeing this I can't even believe my eyes and ears.

This may end up being their best single yet if the rest of the stuff surrounding this release is anywhere near as awesome as this video. Now anyone who says these girls are talentless can go jump off a fucking cliff.

The trumpets were absolutely horrible.Would have probably been a lot better without them.The guitar "solo" was mediocre.

Overall it sounds very messy.

Just because they are beginners (a great song, btw), doesn't mean we need to praise this performance.

Sure, they might become good at it one day, but right now I wouldn't listen to it even a second time.

Granted I don't really know much about Buono, but I don't remember having seen them using a lot of instruments, so I'm not sure why you're mentioning them. Because of a slight rock-ish feeling some of their songs have ?

They did really good! I really like it! I heard they only practiced with the instruments for 5 months, and with AKB's busy schedule, I'm sure they only had a couple of hours every week.

Exactly what I was thinking. They had to learn this stuff on top of all the appearances, performances, and recording sessions they go through on a weekly basis, and they still did this well in a pretty short period of time, since from what I read on some blogs, they were finished with all recording and setup for Ue Kara Mariko around early November, and only started working on stuff for Give Me Five specifically right around that time, at the earliest.

Just because they are beginners (a great song, btw), doesn't mean we need to praise this performance.

I'm not praising the performance saying it was an amazing, perfect, awe-inspiring performance in itself, but the fact that they learned things as quickly as they did, synchronized their playing as much as they did, and the fact that the effort was even made at all to have idols actually playing the music they're performing, in its entirety. It begins to break the standards that have been established and accepted in the idol industry for what, the last 30 years?

Granted I don't really know much about Buono, but I don't remember having seen them using a lot of instruments, so I'm not sure why you're mentioning them. Because of a slight rock-ish feeling some of their songs have ?

Because Buono played live instruments at their concerts once or twice (maybe more, I stopped following them,) but it was very terrible, they had no idea what they were doing and they only played about 1/5 of a song. And at some appearances for Love Message and Happy15, THE Possible also did the same, but it was clear in both cases, they really didn't know what they were doing, and could barely even play their parts properly or synchronize, even with 3 or 6 people, yet AKB managed to get all 20-ish of them to be on-time, and playing the parts correctly, even if not flawlessly. The stuff those two groups did was nowhere near the level of skill and performance that AKB shows in this video, so if you think that was bad, you wouldn't want to waste your time.

I guess you guys better go back to listening to your Philharmonic Orchestra and Mozart recordings, if the performers you're listening to being less than perfect bothers you so much.

Just because they are beginners (a great song, btw), doesn't mean we need to praise this performance.

I'm not praising the performance saying it was an amazing, perfect, awe-inspiring performance in itself, but the fact that they learned things as quickly as they did, synchronized their playing as much as they did, and the fact that the effort was even made at all to have idols actually playing the music they're performing, in its entirety. It begins to break the standards that have been established and accepted in the idol industry for what, the last 30 years?

You did however write "OK, so now AKB48 is officially the best idol group in history. Where Tsunku tried and failed with Buono and THE Possible, Aki-P has won. I'm so in awe from seeing this I can't even believe my eyes and ears." - which sounded to me like you absolutely love this performance.Which made it seem as if you thought it was pretty flawless.

Granted I don't really know much about Buono, but I don't remember having seen them using a lot of instruments, so I'm not sure why you're mentioning them. Because of a slight rock-ish feeling some of their songs have ?

Because Buono played live instruments at their concerts once or twice (maybe more, I stopped following them,) but it was very terrible, they had no idea what they were doing and they only played about 1/5 of a song. And at some appearances for Love Message and Happy15, THE Possible also did the same, but it was clear in both cases, they really didn't know what they were doing, and could barely even synchronize, even with 3 or 5 people, yet AKB managed to get all 20-ish of them to be on-time, and playing the parts correctly, even if not flawlessly.

I guess you guys better go back to listening to your Philharmonic Orchestra and Mozart recordings, if the performers you're listening to being less than perfect bothers you so much.

Oh, I didn't know Buono tried out instruments.

It doesn't need to be perfect, I like several live songs from bands that didn't perfom them perfectly, but this is really not good imho.I would have been far more excited if they just said "ok, we're learning this and this" and just showed off some training session.But considering this seemed to be a real live perfomance in front of an audience, it was pretty bad.

OK, so now AKB48 is officially the best idol group in history. Where Tsunku tried and failed with Buono and THE Possible, Aki-P has won. I'm so in awe from seeing this I can't even believe my eyes and ears.

This may end up being their best single yet if the rest of the stuff surrounding this release is anywhere near as awesome as this video. Now anyone who says these girls are talentless can go jump off a fucking cliff.

How rare to see them perform something live. That alone deserves some props. Not the best thing they've ever done by a long shot, but pretty delightful nonetheless. Always nice to see them doing something different. And it really isn't bad at all. However, the intro took up about half the running time of the piece, which really tried my patience. So the song itself is actually quite short. And I was annoyed that they shunted poor Tomochin off to the back at the far end of the stage with those friggin' maracas! She certainly rates something better, y'know, like being on guitar with At-chan and Takamina?

And I was annoyed that they shunted poor Tomochin off to the back at the far end of the stage with those friggin' maracas! She certainly rates something better, y'know, like being on guitar with At-chan and Takamina?

I'm not a huge Tomo fan, though I know she's really popular, but I think they probably tried to balance this out to be fairly believable as a band, since not most bands have 3 guitarists except something like Iron Maiden, Emerson, Lake, and Palmer or Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young, etc. Its also a possibility she didn't have as much skill at picking up instruments as the other girls did, though you can also tell the whole AKB front girl/popularity thing was also at play here in the stage/instrument arrangement to some degree, since the 3 people in front are the 3 people that are always in front.

This was great. I really loved it, also anyone who says they can't perform live should go watch some of the Seibu Dome, Live Acchan, Live Tomochin, Live DiVA (they were incredible) - Also I can't understand why anyone would prefer H!P over AKB these days...you're all missing out. All you bitter peeps, gtfo.

Also I can't understand why anyone would prefer H!P over AKB these days...you're all missing out. All you bitter peeps, gtfo.

Was just thinking this myself. Not saying I dislike everything H!P does now, but in terms of variety and quality, AKB destroys anything H!P has done in years, and I just kinda feel sad that instead of actually trying to accept AKB for what they are and like both H!P and AKB, people act like its a war between them and you can only like one or the other, and they're missing out on tons of great things just because they're butthurt about H!P not doing interesting things anymore in comparison. I know this is just going to cause bitching, but it really does sadden me. I see it on every H!P message board and Facebook now.

It was kind of bleh on a lot of fronts. The biggest problem was the audio mix and you can't put that on the girls. That said, the horns had some issues and the drummer was a little off, especially with the rides/hats. The song was kind of generic too, but that's a conceptual issue.

I would just say that if you perform in public you deserve to be judged on the performance. Whether you spent 5 days, 5 months or 5 years preparing is irrelevant.

Also whether you are an idol or not is irrelevant.

I am not having a go at the girls, I know zero about them. The fact that they performed is down to the management but, that said, it is still a toe-curling embarassment of musicianship.

So what do you play?

Hey, Turtle's got a point. They got on the big stage and put themselves out there and at that point, whether they just started learning or not doesn't change how good or bad it is. It's an interesting frame for rationalizing it, but a critique can't give too much clout to time spent because it's still being presented to the public-at-large and not offering the fullest critique possible does no one any good (and yes, obviously they don't give a shit what's said here, but the point is valid). That's the nature of the shark tank.

Are you seriously pulling the "if you don't make the same thing, you're not allowed to judge it" card ?

When you're specifically talking about "musicianship" and not something that is less quantifiable like quality of songwriting or other, more subjective aspects of a production, I feel like you need to have some justification or frame of reference for your judgement to be terribly valid to me. It is still somewhat subjective, but not nearly as much as other things. If you don't understand exactly how music is produced from the instruments its being played on, how can you fairly judge whether it is being played well or not for the complexity of the material?

Just because something doesn't sound perfect or pleasing to your ears doesn't mean its being played wrong or with bad musicianship. There's plenty of music I dislike that was being played perfectly as it was intended and written, and also the opposite in some cases, as sometimes the flaws or small imperfections of a recording or performance are what make it unique and exciting. This is also why some live recordings can encompass a very different feel to a song just in the way its being played. They may have wanted this to sound more like an indie pop/punk/ska band and have these small imperfections, and many would argue that is what makes it feel more real instead of just another over-produced pop idol production.

I'm not saying your judgement on musicianship without a frame of reference can't be important to other people, I just don't really put much merit into it. If Turtle is a musician who plays some instruments, then it'd be interesting to hear his comments on my responses, and I won't discredit that.

GUYS, SCANDAL is the group with the "idols that can play instruments".

It's pretty cool that they did that. Takamina is ten times cooler playing guitar. <3 Too bad I cannot get into AKB's music at all, because that song did nothing for me. I can't do the large group choir chorus thing. I just can't. I hate it when H!P does huge group numbers too. /shrug

GUYS, SCANDAL is the group with the "idols that can play instruments".

I wouldn't really call them idols, they're more just a band that was created for the purpose of playing the instruments and their music is mostly boring as sin, but like you said, you think AKB's is the same, so, to each their own, of course.

So I did. It was fun enough, but didn't live up to even a fraction of the hype created in this thread.

I'm not shooting it down, because seeing a H!P group performing as a live band for themselves has been my dream for years, so I'm glad the concept was realised at least with AKB. But from a non-fan point of view, it's really nothing to hype about. And it's not really anything new for them either, I remember them doing a marching band kinda performance long time ago before they exploded in the mainstream. This just expands the concept, but doesn't really improve it.

They were given instruments and were told to learn to play them and then perform during a concerts. And so they did, with better or worse results.

Exactly the same as they were given lyrics and singing lessons, and then sung their songs during concerts, also with better or worse results. And I don't hear them being lauded as a breakthrough in the art of vocal performance or anything.

I'm sure these guys are also doing their best but I don't see them winning Best Newcomer awards, and I don't need a degree in music to know that their performance is shit. And without the rose-tinted glasses on, the AKB performance doesn't sound far off from that, except they get more slack for being cute idols and not pimply-faced HS boys.

Either way, I might have even been excited about this, but almost every time I try to give AKB a fair chance the rampant fanboyism and overhyping really ruins it for me. I try to enjoy them for what they're worth in my little fandom-proof bubble, but it can only withstand this much. But I wish them good luck still, because the music world always needs more cute girls with guitars.

Also I can't understand why anyone would prefer H!P over AKB these days...you're all missing out. All you bitter peeps, gtfo.

If that's what your feelings are then I kindly suggest you gtfo of this BBS because you really have nothing more to do here.

Also I can't understand why anyone would prefer H!P over AKB these days...you're all missing out. All you bitter peeps, gtfo.

Then maybe you shouldn't hang out on MM-BBS anymore.

As someone that was crazy about AKB for a long time, I think lives are the aspect I dislike the most about them with the exception of the few songs they played their own instruments.

AKB often lip syncs (biggy I can't stand), wear the same clothes over and over again, and they haven't had enough new material. Yes, I actually like some of MM's concert outfits. For me with idols, I like watching concerts the most. So with the exception of new singles and 1 album, AKB has not been producing much new material for concerts, yet they have them pretty often. So I have stopped caring because a concert I watched 2 years ago would be essentially the same at this point.

AKB has a lot of things better going on for them. But concerts, concerts, I don't know why that is what I like the most but... yup.

I decided to stop caring about AKB about a year ago until a new stage came out... and it's still taking forever. So my interest is pretty dead now, unfortunately.

GUYS, SCANDAL is the group with the "idols that can play instruments".

I wouldn't really call them idols, they're more just a band that was created for the purpose of playing the instruments and their music is mostly boring as sin, but like you said, you think AKB's is the same, so, to each their own, of course.

Did you ever see the Japanese movie, SWING GIRLS (2004)? It's about a group of high school girls who form a big band and learn to play the instruments and then give a concert where they do "In the Mood," "Take the A Train" and other big band classics. The actresses actually learned the instruments as they were shooting and actually played live for the concert featured in the finale. And did a fine job. But I'm sure they had way more time to learn, practice and rehearse than the AKB girls did.