n serbian wikipedia says that it is first time mentioned as a border fortress of Rascian upan (duke) Vukan in 1093. Since Serbs didn't have kings and kingdom until early 13th century (1217.) it couldn't be built by serbian king.

Ok. Big difference, we had Grand Zupans not Kings. The point is, I was actually incorrect. According to this site:http://www.coe.int/t/dg4/cultureheri...Zvecan_APP.pdf
The fortress was actually originally built in the 6th century by Justinian, likely to defend against the Avars. Now you probably know the story, the Serbs and Croats were then invited to settle in the Balkans and defeat the Avars, and it then became a part of Serbia, and it shifted hands numerous times. So no, it wasn't originally founded by a Serbian Grand Zupan, but it was held by Serbs many times and most of the constructions and extensions and what not were also most likely Serbian.

As for Uzice: I posted these pictures quickly off of wikipedia because I didn't have the time to post more. This is the quote I got:

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The Stari Grad (Serbian: Стари град or Stari Grad; English: Old town) is made of the remains of a fort near Uice, Serbia. It is an example of a typical Serbian mediaeval fort, probably built between the 12th and 13th centuries to control movement along nearby roads.

As for highlighting Croatian Kings and suggesting that I didn't know Croatia was a kingdom, I don't know why you would even assume that as I made absolutely no reference to Croatia at all, so stop being so damn cynical.

So why didn't you wrote "grand župan" instead "king"? King sounds better does it?

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The point is, I was actually incorrect. According to this site:http://www.coe.int/t/dg4/cultureheri...Zvecan_APP.pdf
The fortress was actually originally built in the 6th century by Justinian, likely to defend against the Avars. Now you probably know the story, the Serbs and Croats were then invited to settle in the Balkans and defeat the Avars, and it then became a part of Serbia, and it shifted hands numerous times. So no, it wasn't originally founded by a Serbian Grand Zupan, but it was held by Serbs many times and most of the constructions and extensions and what not were also most likely Serbian.

Mostly you are correct here. Just, statement about emperor Justinian building this fortress is just a statement without any proof. I was in Zvečan and saw the fortress. We even have a serbian (not albanian) guide and there was not a word about Justinian building it whatsoever.

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As for Uzice: I posted these pictures quickly off of wikipedia because I didn't have the time to post more. This is the quote I got:

It is interesting that in two editions of wikipedia both edited by serbian authors there a two different informations. Off course, in english edition castle suddenly become century or two older then in serbian.

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As for highlighting Croatian Kings and suggesting that I didn't know Croatia was a kingdom, I don't know why you would even assume that as I made absolutely no reference to Croatia at all, so stop being so damn cynical.

No you didn't made reference on Croatia. But in just few sentences you invented and placed "oldest balkans castle" in Serbia, converted Serbia (then dutchy of Raška) into kingdom, and made other serbian castle two centuries older. In one word you have been overexsagarrating (mildly said) in order to embelish your history. Same thing that numerous of your countrymen are constantly doing all over Stormfront. And we all know where are such your "interpretations" of history leading. Can't you just stick to the truth? Is it so hard for you? Or at least limit your historical disinformations and wishfull thinking (again mildly said) where they belong - on your own subforum.

I dont know but in Serbian language they call themselves Dvorci- Castles
But its ok, i see people put fortresses, so why not mantions as well

Fortresses are objects with predominantly military purpose (tvrđave) like yours Smederevo, Golubac or Zvečan, while castles could also be objects like castle Besingen Vlajkovac or Spitzer castle Beocin which were made more for commodity and leisure.

Many medieval fortresses in Croatia have during baroque period (when the direct endangerment from Turks was over) turned into such a castles and many more were built in that time. They are also similar by purpose with manors. So basically we can talk about fortresses and manors, and word "castle" (dvorac) could mean both.

And beside that word "castle" have allways indicated on some kind of seat (ruler's or noblemen's). Some of this castles were of course during the middle ages heavily fortified so they were fortresses too. But not every fortress was a castle.