Please don't tell me that Hillary is really running in 2008. I thought it was a joke at first, but now I'm starting to hear about it more and more. I swear if she is the frontrunner for us democrats I'll make a new party called the dempublicans and go for John McCain.

IS THIS WHAT OUR WORLD IS COMING TO?! Look, I have nothing against females running for office, but Hillary...NO WAY. She doesn't have what it takes. She burst into tears when the people in New York booed her.....what's she gonna do about all the attack ads by the republicans? Counter them by crying some more? I mean what the HELL is happening to the democratic party.

It's funny, because if you really look at the history of the republican party when they first started, they had more modern democratic/liberal values than the democrats do now. The republicans were the ones for abolishing slavery, etc. They came from a group called the Wigs or something like that, I forget. Whatever. I'm losing faith in us.

pooltchr

11-12-2004, 06:15 AM

How can you be surprised at this? It's been discussed for the past couple of years. Had Kerry won, she probably wouldn't have been considered, but since there will be no incumbent to run against in 08, she would be a front runner. The Clintons have been at the top of the power ladder for the Dems for a long time.

My fear is that she has shown she will do anything, and step on anyone in her efforts to gain political power. Neal Boortz calls her "Evil". That may be an exageration, but in my opinion, not much of one.

Should she get nominated, the best thing the Reps could do to counter it would be to put Condi Rice up against her. Imagine how that would divide the Democratic voter base!

SecaucusFats

11-12-2004, 06:32 AM

Looks like the Democrats are failing to heed the advise of their own strategists, and are making no attempt to adopt a more moderate centrist position (which is good for the GOP).

I hope that the Hillary (The Hildabeast) is the Democratic party candidate for president in 2008 and Rudy Giuliani is the Republican candidate. Rudy will beat her like a conga drum.

Michael (The Slob) Moore is already working hard on Farenheit 911 1/2 and we all know what a great job he did (for the GOP). Can the rest of the smarmy Hollywood leftist crowd be far behind? (Please tell me they are!)

SF

Qtec

11-12-2004, 06:37 AM

Can you please tell me why you[ and others] hate hillary so much. What has she done to deserve such a low standing in the USA?
Q

PQQLK9

11-12-2004, 06:42 AM

They all are probably infected with "Limbaughnitis". /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Wally_in_Cincy

11-12-2004, 06:54 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Can you please tell me why you[ and others] hate hillary so much. What has she done to deserve such a low standing in the USA?
Q <hr /></blockquote>

She is not a likeable person. She is a self-centered arrogant bitch. Most Americans don't like self-centered arrogant bitches.

Bill got elected because he comes across as a somewhat jovial, likeable guy, despite what we know about him now.

I don't hate her. I just don't like her or her policies.

I didn't hate her husband. I just thought he was bad for the country.

Sid_Vicious

11-12-2004, 06:56 AM

"We're havin' fun now!" sid /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Deeman2

11-12-2004, 07:24 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Can you please tell me why you[ and others] hate hillary so much. What has she done to deserve such a low standing in the USA?
Q <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">Many of us on the right love her and hope and pray she is the 2008 nominee. If I listed the items we don't like about her you'd want proof of what i have said. See, you can't prove everything by reading the NY Times so I won't bother, just say, Hillary in 2008!!! </font color>

Deeman

hondo

11-12-2004, 07:43 AM

My theory is that they hate her because she's an
intelligent, self-confident WOMAN. When I posted this
earlier somebody said not true; they'd vote for
Condi Rice. If you believe that I've got some
ocean front property I'll sell you in Arizona.
My theory is that most men don't really like women; they
see them as sexual conquests. Ladies, notice how
most men don't really listen to what you have to say.
I, on the other hand, love women AS WOMEN!
This is why at 56, slightly overweight, balding,
I'm still considered a stud muffin.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Can you please tell me why you[ and others] hate hillary so much. What has she done to deserve such a low standing in the USA?
Q <hr /></blockquote>

eg8r

11-12-2004, 09:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Can you please tell me why you[ and others] hate hillary so much. <hr /></blockquote> Why do you hate the US so much?

eg8r

Deeman2

11-12-2004, 09:07 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> My theory is that they hate her because she's an
intelligent, self-confident WOMAN. When I posted this
earlier somebody said not true; they'd vote for
Condi Rice. if you believe that I've got some
ocean front property I'll sell you in Arizona.
My theory is that most men don't really like women; they
see them as sexual conquests.

<font color="blue">I would prefer to think of myself as a sexual conquest for the women, not the other way around although it has not worked out that way in years, not being a stud muffin like you. /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif I would however, vote for many women for President. Kay Bailey Hutchinson, (Condi needs a few more years of politics, IMO), in War I'd make a case for Ann Coulter (more so if she was not so weak on social issues) /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif (I thought Margret Thatcher was one of the three strongest leaders UK ever had), I loved Gandi, the woman not the movie. I may be completely off base here but I think a woman would have more difficulty within the female electorate than with the men! If fact, I would be willing to let the men voters sit out the next election. I think the women have more political savy than most of us men and I bet most of them had little trouble figuring out how to use the voting machines.

</font color>

Ladies, notice how
most men don't really listen to what you have to say.
I, on the other hand, love women AS WOMEN!
This is why at 56, slightly overweight, balding,
I'm still cosidered a stud muffin.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Can you please tell me why you[ and others] hate hillary so much. What has she done to deserve such a low standing in the USA?
Q <hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">I think most women have better and more solid values than us men, on average. I don't think Hillary is one of them. I met her three times in social and work situations in Arkansas (Guy Proctor's house in 1979, same party more people in 1982) only five if us there in '79, (No, Qtec, I don't have taped recordings) and at the Arkansas Industrial Development Commission in 1987. She was not personable, was smarter than me but about half as intellegent as Bill (my take only). I had never met her before that first birthday party for Guy in '79 but thought she looked like a person who had stayed too long at Woodstock. Bill entranced even me with his knowledge and charasima. Hillary, in a 20 minute personal conversation insulted every view I held, insulted my home state, it's backward women, our Church affiliation (at the time) and generally made me and my wife feel we were the strangers in my friend's home. In '87 I met her in conference with 12 other people, she had transformed into a personable, polite and politically savy lawyer with much better hair who lauded praise on my state, had dropped her last name, became anti-Union and promised to help end a potential bitter strike that was threatening to move a large employer out of state. She was to have Bill interced for us in a matter and avoid losing this employer, the highest wages paid in the state. She went back to Little Rock and four days later , out of desparation we called Bill, she had not even mentioned our request to him. The business soon moved to Mexico. No, I won't Swift Boat this in 2008 even though I do have people who can and will back me up on this, not just my ex-wife either. So, I just don't trust her.

Something of interest to you Clintonites. I didn't see Bill Clinton from about May of 1982 until May of 1989. I had only talked to him for about 30 minutes on two occasions (while he was A. General &amp; as our Governor) and driving by in a parade in Bradford, Arkansas, he waved and called me by name having not laid eyes on me in over 7 years! Now, weather you are Democrat or Republican or Communist, you have to admit a man who can remember the name of one of thousands upon thousands of people he has met is something astonishing. </font color>

Deeman

PQQLK9

11-12-2004, 09:49 AM

"he waved and called me by name having not laid eyes on me in over 7 years! Now, weather you are Democrat or Republican or Communist, you have to admit a man who can remember the name of one of thousands upon thousands of people he has met is something astonishing".

Probably because you went to school with Mercury Morris and Dwuane Thomas. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Deeman2

11-12-2004, 10:39 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote PQQLK9:</font><hr> "he waved and called me by name having not laid eyes on me in over 7 years! Now, weather you are Democrat or Republican or Communist, you have to admit a man who can remember the name of one of thousands upon thousands of people he has met is something astonishing".

Probably because you went to school with Mercury Morris and Dwuane Thomas. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> But Eugene was a Democrat and Train was a ********! Eugene went to Jail and I don't know what happened to Dwayne.... It took me two weeks to learn to fall down before running into Eugene. Still has aches from him..... </font color>

Deeman
they wouldn't have me as a Razorback, said I had no speed, they were right... /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

SpiderMan

11-12-2004, 12:01 PM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> My theory is that they hate her because she's an
intelligent, self-confident WOMAN. When I posted this
earlier somebody said not true; they'd vote for
Condi Rice. If you believe that I've got some
ocean front property I'll sell you in Arizona.
Q <hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote>

Price? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Actually, I'd vote for Hillary in the primaries and Condi in the general election.

SpiderMan

highsea

11-12-2004, 01:10 PM

I'd support Hillary in the primaries too. If the dems want to lose that bad, I won't argue with them. They should have learned their lesson now about running a Northeast Liberal for President. The only success the democratics have had lately in Presidents is when they run a Southern Governor for the job.

I'd suggest they stick to that strategy if they want to have a chance.

pooltchr

11-16-2004, 06:31 AM

[quote=hondomost men don't really like women; they
see them as sexual conquests<hr /></blockquote>

Thinking of women as sexual conquests when the subject is Hillary is too much for my brain to even comprehend!!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif
UGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

Gayle in MD

11-16-2004, 06:57 AM

Some things never change! I shouldn't be surprised the way Republicans hate Hilliary, since she was one of those who worked to get their CROOK, Richard Nixon out of office.

I guess men think she doesn't measure up to other brilliant first ladies....

Mamie, laid in bed for eight years

Betty, stayed drunk for four years

Nancy, focus, China, not the country, the dishes, and Oh yes, her brilliant war against drugs, "Just say no" LMAO

Lady Bird, "Let's all get out and plant wildflowers"

Barbara, HHHMMMM, what did Barbara do? Oh yes, much like her daughtee-in-law, and son, ...in the face of disaster, Read a book to a child.

Laura...Smile, nod, smile, nod, smile, nod, smile, nod, smile, nod

Hilliary Clinton was the hardest working most intelligent woman in the Whitehouse since Elenor R. No wonder men hate her, right?

Judging by the hundreds of women who lined up to buy her best selling book, I'd say she is very well liked by the women in this country, and admired for all her efforts.

Gayle in Md, chauvinism is alive and well in America

Sid_Vicious

11-16-2004, 07:14 AM

Good post Gayle...sid

Wally_in_Cincy

11-16-2004, 07:24 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> I guess men think she doesn't measure up to other brilliant first ladies....

Mamie, laid in bed for eight years

Betty, stayed drunk for four years

Nancy, focus, China, not the country, the dishes, and Oh yes, her brilliant war against drugs, "Just say no" LMAO

Lady Bird, "Let's all get out and plant wildflowers"

Barbara, HHHMMMM, what did Barbara do? Oh yes, much like her daughtee-in-law, and son, ...in the face of disaster, Read a book to a child.

Laura...Smile, nod, smile, nod, smile, nod, smile, nod, smile, nod

<hr /></blockquote>

It's pretty obvious that you are doing your best to unite this horribly "divided" country with your well researched and intelligent debate.

You need to take a lesson from Ross. He can defend his positions without the childish name calling.

Gayle in MD

11-16-2004, 07:41 AM

LMAO...This from the man who just called Hillary an arrogant, self-centered b*tch.

Ah ha ha ha ha!
too funny...

Gayle in Md. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Wally_in_Cincy

11-16-2004, 07:54 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> LMAO...This from the man who just called Hillary an arrogant, self-centered b*tch.

Ah ha ha ha ha!
too funny...

Gayle in Md. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif <hr /></blockquote>

But Gayle, you will notice I did not go back and trash every Democrat First Lady back to WWII like you did to the Republican First Ladies. Your partisanship is so obvious.

I have nothing against Bess Truman, Jackie O, Rosalynn Carter, or even Tipper. Hillary is a special case and I stand by my statement.

Gayle in MD

11-16-2004, 08:23 AM

I repeat, chauvinism is alive and well in America.

Trash the first ladies? I think I gave a pretty fair assessment of their contributions in office. ZILCH.

Have you forgotten that Johnson was a democrat? I told you I am an independant, but then, you never really read my posts do you, only stalk and insult.

This all started when I wrote my original Church and State post, which was a mix of facts and opinions after which you, Deeman, and Ed called me a list of insulting names and accusations.

Do you guys ever read any BOOKS? There is other information out there other than Fox news and Chris Hannity you know.

I need to read, "How to talk to a Bushyite, if you must"

Have a nice day Wally...

Gayle in Md.,

Deeman2

11-16-2004, 08:24 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Some things never change! I shouldn't be surprised the way Republicans hate Hilliary, since she was one of those who worked to get their CROOK, Richard Nixon out of office. <font color="blue">Republicans don't especially hate Hillary as she is our best hope for another victory in 2008 as Kerry was in 2004. I noticed you didn't make a comprehensive list of her accomplishments as first lady for her 8 years in office. /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif </font color>

I guess men think she doesn't measure up to other brilliant first ladies....

<font color="blue"> She measures up as a first lady, The requirements for President are somewhat higher. </font color>

Mamie, laid in bed for eight years

<font color="blue"> Mrs. Eisenhower was a well respected women who told it like it was, many years before you learned how to burn your bra. </font color>

Betty, stayed drunk for four years

Making fun of her problems with alcohol is to neglect the fine work she did to help others with the same problem. She was perfectly capable of hiding this problem and not facing it. That takes courage when she could just as easily swept it under the rug.

Nancy, focus, China, not the country, the dishes, and Oh yes, her brilliant war against drugs, "Just say no" LMAO <font color="blue"> At least she tried. She was and is an elegant lady. </font color>

Lady Bird, "Let's all get out and plant wildflowers"
<font color="blue"> Even democratic first ladies take on some small roles that make contributions. What did you expect her to do, cure cancer? </font color>

Barbara, HHHMMMM, what did Barbara do? Oh yes, much like her daughtee-in-law, and son, ...in the face of disaster, Read a book to a child. <font color="blue"> She showed clas and grace and never embarassed this country. </font color>

Laura...Smile, nod, smile, nod, smile, nod, smile, nod, smile, nod <font color="blue"> Laura, you are sooo cleaver. Pick on me, I was an alcoholic, I was unemployed, I was a poor husband/father. Leave these fine ladies alone. </font color>

Hilliary Clinton was the hardest working most intelligent woman in the Whitehouse since Elenor R. No wonder men hate her, right? <font color="blue">I don't hate her. I don't trust her and it has absolutely nothing to do with her gender. </font color>

Judging by the hundreds of women who lined up to buy her best selling book, I'd say she is very well liked by the women in this country, and admired for all her efforts.

<font color="blue"> True, then as hundreds of women and men lined up to buy Hannity's books, then I assume you feel he would make a good President. Don't confuse celebrity with leadership.</font color>

Gayle in Md, chauvinism is alive and well in America <hr /></blockquote> <font color="blue"> It certainly is. It just doesn't happen to be Male chauvinism.....look up the word. </font color>

Deeman
would make a great first husband....

Qtec

11-16-2004, 08:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
She measures up as a first lady, The requirements for President are somewhat higher. <hr /></blockquote>

..and what might they be? /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Q /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Deeman2

11-16-2004, 09:00 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> I repeat, chauvinism is alive and well in America.

Trash the first ladies? I think I gave a pretty fair assessment of their contributions in office. ZILCH. <font color="blue"> You slandered ladies who have accomplished more than you or I ever will. </font color>

Have you forgotten that Johnson was a democrat? <font color="blue">No. </font color> I told you I am an independant, but then, you never really read my posts do you, only stalk and insult. <font color="blue"> Gayle, just because you call yourself independednt, does not make you one. You are very far left of independent (from your posts) and that's o.k. just don't pretent to be open minded and fair. </font color>

This all started when I wrote my original Church and State post, which was a mix of facts and opinions after which you, Deeman, and Ed called me a list of insulting names and accusations. <font color="blue"> I had no accusations. I called you, if my memory serves me right, a wanna be elitist. That should be a badge of honor. You certainly won't argue that, will you? I am a fat slob who barely has enough sense to get out of bed each morning. Hey, I don't like that, but I don't pretent to be much else. I've gone 52 years without hitting a woman, never, ever been to a WWF event and don't even have a car jacked up in my front yard. I'm poorly educated, to some degree, I'm willing to debate without hating the other side so much. </font color>

Do you guys ever read any BOOKS? There is other information out there other than Fox news and Chris Hannity you know. <font color="blue"> Who is Chris Hannity? </font color>

I need to read, "How to talk to a Bushyite, if you must"

<font color="blue"> Have you read "How to talk to a liberal?" I've read, "It takes a Village.", "My Life." Does Ann Coulter's personal appearance effect you in some manner? Are you deeply into looks? I mean, i don't remember insulting Mrs. Clinton's appearance just because I could not muster a sound political argument against her words. </font color>

<font color="blue"> Deeman </font color>

Gayle in Md., <hr /></blockquote>

Wally_in_Cincy

11-16-2004, 09:03 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Have you forgotten that Johnson was a democrat? I told you I am an independant,

<font color="blue">Sorry Gayle, I don't believe that for a second. You may be registered as an independent but you are probably the most partisan person on this board. </font color>

but then, you never really read my posts do you, only stalk and insult.

<font color="blue">I did not respond to you for a few days when you first started all this. Finally I could not take it anymore. I simply asked you to defend your opinions with facts. The only facts I have seen you present to this point is Richard Clarke's book.

You have every right to state your position but you had better be prepared to defend it. </font color>

This all started when I wrote my original Church and State post, which was a mix of facts and opinions after which you, Deeman, and Ed called me a list of insulting names and accusations.

<font color="blue">I never called you any names. </font color>

Do you guys ever read any BOOKS? There is other information out there other than Fox news and Chris Hannity you know.

<font color="blue">Let's see, you have read Richard Clarke's book and The Coming Generational Storm and this makes you an expert on everything politically and economically?

To answer your question honestly, I really don't have time to read a lot of books. 3 or 4 a year maybe. I read the newspaper every day and 2 news magazines evry week. I consider myself fairly well-informed. </font color>

I need to read, "How to talk to a Bushyite, if you must"

Have a nice day Wally...

Gayle in Md., <hr /></blockquote>

Deeman2

11-16-2004, 09:05 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
She measures up as a first lady, The requirements for President are somewhat higher. <hr /></blockquote>

..and what might they be? /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Q /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">That he/she be 35 years old, a natural born U.S. citizen and that he/she receive 270 electorial college votes in an election. That's the basics. The rest is up to the red states... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif </font color>

Gayle in MD

11-16-2004, 09:05 AM

I repeat, she was the hardest working first lady in the WH since Elenor R.

Let's leave my bra out of this, typical male chauvinist statement.

Higher standards for the President, Guess you think Nixon had high standards, and never embarrassed the country, LMAO.

Hannity's books, again, doesn't even address the issue being discussed, whether women liked Hillary and would vote for her.

I don't really think Hilliary has intentions of running for president, the right wing mud slinging voyeur mongering republican "Christians" made her life miserable enough when she was in the Whitehouse the last time. She has stated over and over that she isn't interested, although I have no doubt, by the time Little Bushy gets finished with us, amost any democrat will be able to win the next election.

37 to 40 or our boys killed in Falluja? (They were sent there by someone who copped out when it was his turn to fight for our country.) Now the enemy has just moved north, all for what? Too bad Little Bushy wouldn't listen to the one man who knew what he was talking about, Powell.

"You break it, you own it."
Richard Clark tried to warn him also.

BTW, where is Osama????????

The rest of your post, is just more Bushyitist hubris....
My conclusions are well documented.

hondo

11-16-2004, 09:17 AM

Hey, I think she's kinda cute!

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> [quote=hondomost men don't really like women; they
see them as sexual conquests<hr /></blockquote>

Thinking of women as sexual conquests when the subject is Hillary is too much for my brain to even comprehend!!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif
UGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! <hr /></blockquote>

Qtec

11-16-2004, 09:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
That he/she be 35 years old, a natural born U.S. citizen and that he/she receive 270 electorial college votes in an election. That's the basics. The rest is up to the red states... <hr /></blockquote>

you,re joking, right?
What, no medical, no drug test, no physcological profiling? No legal certification of sanity, no IQ test to make sure you understand the concept of Mutual Destruction?

Now I,m scared.

Q /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SpiderMan

11-16-2004, 09:21 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman2:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Some things never change! I shouldn't be surprised the way Republicans hate Hilliary, since she was one of those who worked to get their CROOK, Richard Nixon out of office. <font color="blue">Republicans don't especially hate Hillary as she is our best hope for another victory in 2008 as Kerry was in 2004. I noticed you didn't make a comprehensive list of her accomplishments as first lady for her 8 years in office. /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif </font color> <hr /></blockquote><hr /></blockquote>

You kidding? Keeping Chubby Hubby in his pants was a full-time job.

Actually, our "overnight New Yorker" was the only first lady in my time who was trotted out and given a serious and official "assignment", ie fixing the health-care system. I think she even had a title to go with it. Were her results consistent with eight years of focused effort?

Meanwhile Bill, who campaigned on a potpourri of lofty ideas, spent his first half-year in office bleating about the earth-shattering issue of "don't ask, don't tell" for gays in the military.

Hey - perhaps we should be thankful that some "leaders" spend so much time pandering that they don't get much of anything done /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SpiderMan

Deeman2

11-16-2004, 09:29 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
That he/she be 35 years old, a natural born U.S. citizen and that he/she receive 270 electorial college votes in an election. That's the basics. The rest is up to the red states... <hr /></blockquote>

you,re joking, right?
What, no medical, no drug test, no physcological profiling? No legal certification of sanity, no IQ test to make sure you understand the concept of Mutual Destruction?

Now I,m scared.

Q /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> Q,

We have a media with it's feet firmly planted on the left to take care of those issues. If you survive the scrutiny of say, Micheal Moore, your'e pretty much in there so to speak.

Deeman </font color>

Wally_in_Cincy

11-16-2004, 09:29 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> you,re joking, right?
What, no medical, no drug test, no physcological profiling? No legal certification of sanity, no IQ test to make sure you understand the concept of Mutual Destruction?

Now I,m scared.

Q /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

if it were up to Kerry we would have to have France's approval too /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Gayle in MD

11-16-2004, 09:49 AM

Slander, seems a strong word, I simply stated the facts as I have read them in NUMEROUS accounts and biography's on the first ladies.

If you have some other information regarding efforts and projects that these other first ladies accomplished to match the work and accomplishments of H.C. then state them, while I liked many of them myself, Betty Ford, Ladybird, Jaqueline, I certainly didn't see them as anything more than Grand hostesses of the Whitehouse.

I get tired of people bashing the Clintons, especially republicans, when they had the biggest crook ever in the WH.

I'm sure if Hilliary could have gotten Laura Bush's smile, nod, smile nod, smile nod routine down, no one would have anything to critisize her for. She was a doer, who rolled up her sleves and jumped into the fray as a very young woman. The republican smear machine accused the Clinton's of everything imaginable, including murder for heavens sake. Yet all they could COME up with was a little, well never mind.

One thing I never have to do is pretend anything.

"Dont't pretend" you seem to use that statement often, HHHMMM

As I told you before, hate is not a part of my world, but then you seem to have a remedial problem.

Anne Coulter, LOL, well jeeze, what's the old saying, "Screw em if they can't take a joke," LOL.

Gayle in Md.

SPetty

11-16-2004, 11:25 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman2:</font><hr><font color="blue"> Gayle, just because you call yourself independednt, does not make you one. You are very far left of independent (from your posts) and that's o.k. just don't pretent to be open minded and fair. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>Uh oh. Now I'm confused.

From those who like to label people:
Right = Conservative = Republican
Left = Liberal = Democrat

But now "independent" has a location on that "direction" scale?

So on the sliding scale from left to right (or from right to left if you prefer), where is the official place for "independent"? That is, how can one know if they are left of or right of "independent"? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

And then, if they're left of "independent", does that automatically make them Liberal and Democrat? And if they're right of "independent", does that automatically make them Conservative and Republican?

I'm so bad at labeling people...

SpiderMan

11-16-2004, 12:05 PM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman2:</font><hr><font color="blue"> Gayle, just because you call yourself independednt, does not make you one. You are very far left of independent (from your posts) and that's o.k. just don't pretent to be open minded and fair. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>Uh oh. Now I'm confused.

From those who like to label people:
Right = Conservative = Republican
Left = Liberal = Democrat

But now "independent" has a location on that "direction" scale?

So on the sliding scale from left to right (or from right to left if you prefer), where is the official place for "independent"? That is, how can one know if they are left of or right of "independent"? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

And then, if they're left of "independent", does that automatically make them Liberal and Democrat? And if they're right of "independent", does that automatically make them Conservative and Republican?

I'm so bad at labeling people...
<hr /></blockquote>

Good point SPetty, where is "independent"? Sounds like Deeman was considering it to be "centrist" or "moderate". Gail is certainly far left of centrist or moderate, but that may be her definition of independent. Independent certainly doesn't mean one is somewhere midway between liberal and conservative. We do need a scale, don't we?

SpiderMan

Deeman2

11-16-2004, 12:20 PM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Slander, seems a strong word, I simply stated the facts as I have read them in NUMEROUS accounts and biography's on the first ladies. <font color="blue"> Slander may be a strong term so if it offends, I apologize. I do feel all these women who were not put in office to be more than "grand hostesses". Maybe thet's what the job is about. Maybe that's why we don't vote for them, but their husbands. I know, a pretty wild concept but it makes sense to me.</font color>

If you have some other information regarding efforts and projects that these other first ladies accomplished to match the work and accomplishments of H.C. then state them,
<font color="blue"> I asked about Hillary's accomplishments in those eight years and simply got no response. I didn't say, "She didn't try to do anything", I just wanted some clarification on all those accomplishments the others don't have. </font color>
while I liked many of them myself, <font color="blue">sure didn't sound that way </font color> Betty Ford, Ladybird, Jaqueline, I certainly didn't see them as anything more than Grand hostesses of the Whitehouse. <font color="blue"> Read above! </font color>

I get tired of people bashing the Clintons, especially republicans, when they had the biggest crook ever in the WH. <font color="blue">When was the last time we didn't have a person where almost half the country thought they were not on the up and up? I have never called Clinton a Murderer. That would be slanderous! In fact, I never even called him that bad a president. Just a man who exercised bad judgement, haven't we all? </font color>

I'm sure if Hilliary could have gotten Laura Bush's smile, nod, smile nod, smile nod routine down, no one would have anything to critisize her for. <font color="blue"> It does look good on an elegant firt lady doesn't it? </font color> She was a doer, who rolled up her sleves and jumped into the fray as a very young woman. <font color="blue"> Young lawyer, former republican, outstanding legal skills, "stands by her man", many good qualities. Never denied that. Do I have to trust her because you do? </font color> The republican smear machine accused the Clinton's of everything imaginable, including murder for heavens sake. Yet all they could COME up with was a little, well never mind. <font color="blue"> The Democratic Smear machine would never do that, would they? </font color>

One thing I never have to do is pretend anything. <font color="blue"> I do. I admit it. There, I feel better... </font color>

"Dont't pretend" you seem to use that statement often, HHHMMM <font color="blue"> A product of a poor public educational system funded by well meaning liberals during the Kennedy and Johnson administrations. </font color>

As I told you before, hate is not a part of my world, but then you seem to have a remedial problem. <font color="blue"> Sounds like you hate Bush. I've never called Hillary "Little Hilliaryary". </font color>

Anne Coulter, LOL, well jeeze, what's the old saying, "Screw em if they can't take a joke," LOL. <font color="blue"> That was funny the first few times it was on the board but you know, many of us on the right are just hot for her and want to bear her children.

I will leave your bra out of this from now on, I promise, really. Let's do lunch....

Gayle, if you are independent, where do you fall on the political scale, really. I'm not being smart here but you seem like a closet democrat to me. If Bush had lost I might have claimed to be a Marxist, so I would not have really lost. </font color>

Deeman

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

Wally_in_Cincy

11-16-2004, 12:20 PM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> Good point SPetty, where is "independent"? Sounds like Deeman was considering it to be "centrist" or "moderate". Gail is certainly far left of centrist or moderate, but that may be her definition of independent. .....<hr /></blockquote>

Gayle talks about Republicans (including present and former First Ladies)like dogs and defends Hillary and Bill.

I don't see the "independent" there.

Deeman2

11-16-2004, 12:30 PM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman2:</font><hr><font color="blue"> Gayle, just because you call yourself independednt, does not make you one. You are very far left of independent (from your posts) and that's o.k. just don't pretent to be open minded and fair. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>Uh oh. Now I'm confused.

From those who like to label people:
Right = Conservative = Republican
Left = Liberal = Democrat

But now "independent" has a location on that "direction" scale?

So on the sliding scale from left to right (or from right to left if you prefer), where is the official place for "independent"? That is, how can one know if they are left of or right of "independent"? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

And then, if they're left of "independent", does that automatically make them Liberal and Democrat? And if they're right of "independent", does that automatically make them Conservative and Republican?

I'm so bad at labeling people...
<hr /></blockquote>

Good point SPetty, where is "independent"? Sounds like Deeman was considering it to be "centrist" or "moderate". Gail is certainly far left of centrist or moderate, but that may be her definition of independent. Independent certainly doesn't mean one is somewhere midway between liberal and conservative. We do need a scale, don't we?

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> Just my guess, without a dictionary, but, an independent would seem to be not closely enough aligned with either party to choose affiliation with that group. While they might agree on substantive matters, something in the platform or values of that party does not match their views. So, an independent could very well be a screaming liberal that wants full socialism or a Marxist at the other end of the spectrum. My feel is that most independents chose issue by issue the candidate that meets their agenda or beliefs. I also feel most end up in that vast center where they see value in parts of both parties with a fringe few that are left or right wing nuts, according to the model of Harley wheels we are talking about. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif </font color>

Deeman
wants to bring back the Whig Party, they had a cool name...

eg8r

11-16-2004, 01:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This all started when I wrote my original Church and State post, which was a mix of facts and opinions after which you, Deeman, and Ed called me a list of insulting names and accusations.
<hr /></blockquote> Could you please provide this list.

I did accuse you of being a hypocrite which you were all to eager to agree with.

eg8r

eg8r

11-16-2004, 01:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
But now "independent" has a location on that "direction" scale? <hr /></blockquote> Good question. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

hondo

11-16-2004, 01:40 PM

Gayle, don't feel bad. Egg calls me an idiot every
time I make a point he has trouble understanding.

quote=eg8r] &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
This all started when I wrote my original Church and State post, which was a mix of facts and opinions after which you, Deeman, and Ed called me a list of insulting names and accusations.
<hr /></blockquote> Could you please provide this list.

I did accuse you of being a hypocrite which you were all to eager to agree with.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

Rod

11-16-2004, 03:22 PM

Bring back Jimmy Carter, Billy Beer and peanuts! Hell the interest rates were so high I made plenty of money then.

on second thought----------

Rod

Popcorn

11-16-2004, 07:28 PM

There would not be a Republican that would not love to see her run. She would lose to whoever ran against her.

SecaucusFats

11-16-2004, 09:22 PM

In the spirit of bipartisanship I offer this "Hillary in 2008" bumper sticker:

I'm glad to see we have finally elevated this discussion above name calling.

Chopstick

11-17-2004, 09:13 AM

I love it. I want one.

SpiderMan

11-17-2004, 01:07 PM

Jesse Jackson had similar stickers a while back.

SpiderMan

highsea

11-17-2004, 04:14 PM

Gayle, what the heck is a voyeur mongerer? Am I one? Cause if I'm not, I think I want to be... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

wolfdancer

11-17-2004, 08:25 PM

Hear! Hear!....nice post, but I'm surprised you remembered to mention Eleanor, but forgot about Jacqualine. Her intrinsic contribution was that she bought glamour and style, at a time when the country, coming off of eight years of stagnation under the Eisenhower admin...needed a spark......

Gayle in MD

11-17-2004, 10:41 PM

Easy, Kenneth Starr.
/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wally_in_Cincy

11-18-2004, 06:45 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> ...Jacqualine. Her intrinsic contribution was that she bought glamour and style,.... <hr /></blockquote>

According to Gayle she would be a Stepford wife. Like Mrs. Dubya is. Smile. Nod. Smile. Nod. Smile. Nod.

According to Gayle she would be a Stepford wife. Like Mrs. Dubya is. Smile. Nod. Smile. Nod. Smile. Nod. <hr /></blockquote>

a bit like Condi then!

Q <hr /></blockquote>

is this a fair description of condi, in your opinion? or a cheap shot at a a smart, successful woman?

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/uc/20041116/lpo041116.gif

Qtec

11-18-2004, 07:18 AM

its a fair disrcription.

Q /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Gayle in MD

11-18-2004, 10:44 AM

Hi there,
I've read many books about the Kennedy's. I always liked Jackie. Jackie liked herself enough, she never did anything she didn't want to do. She was definately a plus for her falandering husband, who was a hunk for sure. I thought she was remarkable, intelligent, and really had a great sense of humour. Those were different times, and women were admired for different things, Elenor was ahead of her time, IMO.

What if someone on the right of the "Independents" had characatured a successful black woman with oversized lips, paroting to a white man? What would be the fair and balanced reactions then? Don't worry they won't admit that they would have calls of KKK, Nazi's and every other imaginable thing to say.... This is dispicable...</font color>

Gayle in MD

11-19-2004, 06:27 AM

From your post full of insinuations about me,
"Screaming Liberals who want socialism or a marxist...."
"Right wing Nuts"
A bit hypocritical wouldn't you say? A bit "Wannabe elitist?"
FYI independents are usually neither far right or far left, I am far left only in my opinions about "Little Bushy and the Bushyites"

Don't compare me to Harley's, I don't like motorcycles...
Gayle in Md.

Deeman2

11-19-2004, 09:04 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> From your post full of insinuations about me, <font color="blue"> I never make insinuations, however, I was thinking fondly of you when the Independent thought came up. </font color>
"Screaming Liberals who want socialism or a marxist...."
<font color="blue">I didn't point this one at you but if you feel comfortable with it, that's o.k. by me. Gayle, I've got way too little pull, unlike Wally, to run a vast right wing consiracy. If people here feel I'm targeting you I'll certainly stop posting over here. </font color>

"Right wing Nuts"
<font color="blue"> This, in no way refers to you, I believe. It is called a fair and balanced view. </font color> /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

A bit hypocritical wouldn't you say? A bit "Wannabe elitist?" <font color="blue"> I am not hypocritical, I never claimed not to be a wanna be. Just never exactly figured out what I wanna be. Maybe Labour Party U.K.</font color>

FYI independents are usually neither far right or far left, I am far left only in my opinions about "Little Bushy and the Bushyites" <font color="blue"> Point well taken. So Condi, Anne Coulter, etc. would never be a target of your wrath. Was Mr. Powell bad, before, as opposed to now, when he is out of the Bush team? Who, on the right, do you consider not a "Bushyite? </font color>

Don't compare me to Harley's, I don't like motorcycles...
Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote> <font color="blue"> "See, there you go again!" (Ronald Reagan, never was a Bushyite). How do you expect to win the HOG vote with that attitude? </font color>

THE FAITH BASED LEADERSHIP COUNCIL DENOUNCES THE RACIAL MOTIVATED ATTACKS UPON DR. CONDOLEEZZA RICE

PRESS RELEASE

November 19, 2004

(Washington DC)---- The Faith Based Leadership Council (FBLC)(formerly the National Faith Based Initiative Coalition), a group of over 200 black clergy and members of the Faith Based Community, denounced the racial motivated attacks upon Dr. Condoleezza Rice by Editorial Cartoonists Jeff Danziger, Pat Oliphant, Garry Trudeau, the Washington Post and New York Times.

The three cartoonists have for several months used racial stereotypes to conduct their personal character assassination of Dr. Rice’s integrity because she has made the choice to serve in the Bush Administration.

“These cartoonists believe that the liberal views of the Washington Post and New York Times somehow provides cover for them to engage in racist attacks upon Dr. Rice and any other minority in the Bush Administration,” said Oliver N.E. Kellman Jr. Executive Director of the FBLC. “Mr. Danziger’s, Mr. Oliphant’s and Mr. Trudeau’s racist depictions of Dr. Rice are of the most twisted Ku Klux Klan/Skinhead Mindset. “I am astonished that the NAACP, Rainbow-Push and other traditional civil rights groups did not denounce this type of trash from the very first day it was reported.” “Instead, they are silent witnesses to this racially motivated character assassination because of Dr. Rice’s politics.”

“The FBIC believes in the advancement of all Americans, no matter their political affiliation, gender or ethnic background said Kellman. “Dr. Rice has been singled out for persecution by a handful of bigoted liberals who have characterized her as a steppin and fetchin sambo, I believe that they feel threatened and disturbed by the fact that Dr. Rice will soon be the most powerful Black woman in the United States as Secretary of State.” “The Washington Post and New York Times should feel shame for becoming vehicles for racism and bigotry by those on the left.”

The FBIC is calling upon the cartoonists, the Washington Post and the New York Times to publicly apologize to Dr. Rice. White liberals in the media have come to feel that they can openly attack any Black conservative that chooses to serve the nation.

The FBIC is calling upon the Justice Department to conduct a full investigation into these incidents, where the Civil Rights of Dr. Rice and General Colin Powell may have been violated by the promotion of racial bigotry towards persons of color serving their nation.