SacHawk2.0 wrote:Flynn, because of the unknown factor, I'd put on par with Alex Smith, but could be much higher.

Smith's a former #1 overall pick who recently led his team to the NFC Championship game, and has since warranted a high second round pick from the Chiefs.

I really don't see how Flynn is on par with the guy and could be 'much higher' in terms of quality. What evidence is there for that? One game against the Lions? Let's see him lead a team to within a couple of kick-off fumbles of the Super Bowl.

I'm less a believer in Smith than you are, and I say that because Harbaugh's understanding of the QB position led him to make the change up for who he perceived as the better option at Quarterback for the 49rs. Harbaugh TRIED to persuede P. Manning to come to SF, and when that didn't happen, he then put Kaepernick in, he wasn't going to go back to the mediocrety.Let's be honest, Smith was drafted high, because the expectations were that he could possibly take the 49rs back to the glory days, and to continue with the honesty, he just couldn't work enough magic to get it done, and Harbaugh probably gave him the best of all advise to helping him get the most out of his talents.Flynn wasn't able to wrest the starting job from Wilson, (who could) but that doesn't mean that he couldn't flourish as a leader with his own team, given enough time to develop chemestry.

Sgt. Largent wrote:The problem here is Flynn's value is higher to the Hawks than any team interested in him, therefore it's going to be difficult to receive adequate compensation for him.

Meaning Flynn as the best backup in the league + low salary = more valuable to the Hawks than the Raiders or whoever risking a 3rd round pick + 5 million salary for a QB that might not be your starter.

So for the Seahawks the low salary for a backup is a plus but for Oakland the $5million for someone that MAY not be a starter is a negative?

I am confused.......

Yes because our starter is only going to make 400k, so we have the luxury of having a 5 million a year backup. If you're Oakland is it worth it to bring in Flynn to compete for a starting position, when the outcome may be you have to pay Palmer AND Flynn.............AND give up a 3rd or 4th round pick to get Flynn?

Sgt. Largent wrote:The problem here is Flynn's value is higher to the Hawks than any team interested in him, therefore it's going to be difficult to receive adequate compensation for him.

Meaning Flynn as the best backup in the league + low salary = more valuable to the Hawks than the Raiders or whoever risking a 3rd round pick + 5 million salary for a QB that might not be your starter.

So for the Seahawks the low salary for a backup is a plus but for Oakland the $5million for someone that MAY not be a starter is a negative?

I am confused.......

Yes because our starter is only going to make 400k, so we have the luxury of having a 5 million a year backup. If you're Oakland is it worth it to bring in Flynn to compete for a starting position, when the outcome may be you have to pay Palmer AND Flynn.............AND give up a 3rd or 4th round pick to get Flynn?

OK different background thinking. There is no way EVER that they sign Flynn and keep Palmer. They will eat the money from cutting Palmer and have Flynn compete against Pryor. That is the backup I was thinking off. The negative is the cost of the Palmer cut but I simply don't see them keeping both and if they release Palmer this is the cheapest starter they can get unless they really believe in Pryor

New report that the Jags were initially interested in Flynn but decided not to pursue it:

The Florida Times-Union reports the Jaguars explored the possibility of a Matt Flynn trade, but ultimately decided not to pursue it.

CBS Sports' Jason La Canfora recently named the Jaguars as Flynn's "most likely destination," but it appears the quarterback's salary is a hindrance. GM Dave Caldwell is committed to building through the draft and not tying up money in veteran players. Flynn's age, 28 in June, likely also played a factor. The Raiders would seem to be his most likely landing spot.

The Outfield wrote:New report that the Jags were initially interested in Flynn but decided not to pursue it:

The Florida Times-Union reports the Jaguars explored the possibility of a Matt Flynn trade, but ultimately decided not to pursue it.

CBS Sports' Jason La Canfora recently named the Jaguars as Flynn's "most likely destination," but it appears the quarterback's salary is a hindrance. GM Dave Caldwell is committed to building through the draft and not tying up money in veteran players. Flynn's age, 28 in June, likely also played a factor. The Raiders would seem to be his most likely landing spot.

Thats explanation is pure spin.

The Jaguars are the cheapest team in the NFL. The cash they have commited to spend so far in 2013 ranks last in the NFL as in #32nd ........ $14 million less (estimated) than the #31st ranked team.

JSeahawks wrote:If we could send Flynn to jacksonville and flip 2nd round picks with them that would be ideal.

Having first pick in the 2nd round is either a great way to get somebody who slipped out of the first round, or maybe even better is a nice trade chip. All those teams who didnt fill all their needs in the first round have a night to think about who's left over and try to move up and get their guy. We could probably turn that in to 3 or 4 more picks if we were so inclined.

Swapping picks would be great. Picking up extra picks would be good for subsequent years.

SacHawk2.0 wrote:Flynn, because of the unknown factor, I'd put on par with Alex Smith, but could be much higher.

Smith's a former #1 overall pick who recently led his team to the NFC Championship game, and has since warranted a high second round pick from the Chiefs.

I really don't see how Flynn is on par with the guy and could be 'much higher' in terms of quality. What evidence is there for that? One game against the Lions? Let's see him lead a team to within a couple of kick-off fumbles of the Super Bowl.

I'm less a believer in Smith than you are, and I say that because Harbaugh's understanding of the QB position led him to make the change up for who he perceived as the better option at Quarterback for the 49rs. Harbaugh TRIED to persuede P. Manning to come to SF, and when that didn't happen, he then put Kaepernick in, he wasn't going to go back to the mediocrety.Let's be honest, Smith was drafted high, because the expectations were that he could possibly take the 49rs back to the glory days, and to continue with the honesty, he just couldn't work enough magic to get it done, and Harbaugh probably gave him the best of all advise to helping him get the most out of his talents.Flynn wasn't able to wrest the starting job from Wilson, (who could) but that doesn't mean that he couldn't flourish as a leader with his own team, given enough time to develop chemestry.

Haubaugh didn't put kap in because he didn't sign Manning, He put him in because Smith got a head injury, and Just never gave smith his job back. Smith was drafted high, and there were high expectations for him, but I blame him less then I blame whoever runs the show in SF. If Smith got the talent he needed around him, and the coaching he needs around him...then he would of had success early. He is a talented QB. BUT since the 9ers went from coach, to coach, to coach, to coach, he had a rough time finding himself, and I still don't blame him. I feel like some people think Haubaugh like gave him his talent, no he has always been talented, Haubaugh just gave him a gameplan, and gave him some confidence again after getting beat on year after year by fans, and media....Im not sure what you guys are talking about overall but I just wanted to say that. I think Smith has always been that talented, the 9ers were just horribly ran for most of his career there...

With the very ungrateful Carson Palmer refusing to renegotiate his deal in Oakland, I suspect Flynn will be their next QB. Reports suggest Palmer "wants out so he can play in 'Zona" (they've set the bar that low). I would be stoked to see Carson Palmer twice a year. Stoked.

HawkWow wrote:With the very ungrateful Carson Palmer refusing to renegotiate his deal in Oakland, I suspect Flynn will be their next QB. Reports suggest Palmer "wants out so he can play in 'Zona" (they've set the bar that low). I would be stoked to see Carson Palmer twice a year. Stoked.

HawkWow wrote:With the very ungrateful Carson Palmer refusing to renegotiate his deal in Oakland, I suspect Flynn will be their next QB. Reports suggest Palmer "wants out so he can play in 'Zona" (they've set the bar that low). I would be stoked to see Carson Palmer twice a year. Stoked.

Agreed. Not only does Gus not play nicely, he inspires thoughts like this:

"It's an ominous sign for Flynn's future as a viable starter that Bradley is reluctant to make a push for him after the two shared a season in Seattle. The same could be said for Miami Dolphins coach Joe Philbin, who didn't pull the trigger on Flynn last offseason after tutoring the quarterback with the Green Bay Packers".

checkdanews wrote: Smith's a former #1 overall pick who recently led his team to the NFC Championship game, and has since warranted a high second round pick from the Chiefs.Haubaugh didn't put kap in because he didn't sign Manning, He put him in because Smith got a head injury, and Just never gave smith his job back. Smith was drafted high, and there were high expectations for him, but I blame him less then I blame whoever runs the show in SF. If Smith got the talent he needed around him, and the coaching he needs around him...then he would of had success early. He is a talented QB. BUT since the 9ers went from coach, to coach, to coach, to coach, he had a rough time finding himself, and I still don't blame him. I feel like some people think Haubaugh like gave him his talent, no he has always been talented, Haubaugh just gave him a gameplan, and gave him some confidence again after getting beat on year after year by fans, and media....Im not sure what you guys are talking about overall but I just wanted to say that. I think Smith has always been that talented, the 9ers were just horribly ran for most of his career there...

IF Smith was all that, he would have taken his job back, Harbaugh figgured it out quick enough.

HawkWow wrote:Agreed. Not only does Gus not play nicely, he inspires thoughts like this:

"It's an ominous sign for Flynn's future as a viable starter that Bradley is reluctant to make a push for him after the two shared a season in Seattle. The same could be said for Miami Dolphins coach Joe Philbin, who didn't pull the trigger on Flynn last offseason after tutoring the quarterback with the Green Bay Packers".

Philbin thought because he had an inside track, that he could talk Flynn into signing for the cheap, and too, who would have expected that 3rd round pick Russell Wilson would blow the doors off in pre-Season and beyond?There's an arguement by FANSIDEDAILY, that says that Flynn won't garner any kind of upper tier Draft pick, because he couldn't even beat out a 3rd rounder..This is a stupid arguement, because now it's a given, that Wilson has proven to be a 1st round talent that got dissed for being too short,,That kind of poor scouting judgement actually got a few guys sent down the road kicking horse turds.

HawkWow wrote:Agreed. Not only does Gus not play nicely, he inspires thoughts like this:

"It's an ominous sign for Flynn's future as a viable starter that Bradley is reluctant to make a push for him after the two shared a season in Seattle. The same could be said for Miami Dolphins coach Joe Philbin, who didn't pull the trigger on Flynn last offseason after tutoring the quarterback with the Green Bay Packers".

That's very flawed thinking, and I would hope NFL GM's don't use that type of reasoning. If Flynn is signed/traded by those coaches, he is never on the market in the first place. What if Gus does trade for Flynn, are they going to suddenly think: "Damn, we should have made that trade"?

checkdanews wrote: Smith's a former #1 overall pick who recently led his team to the NFC Championship game, and has since warranted a high second round pick from the Chiefs.Haubaugh didn't put kap in because he didn't sign Manning, He put him in because Smith got a head injury, and Just never gave smith his job back. Smith was drafted high, and there were high expectations for him, but I blame him less then I blame whoever runs the show in SF. If Smith got the talent he needed around him, and the coaching he needs around him...then he would of had success early. He is a talented QB. BUT since the 9ers went from coach, to coach, to coach, to coach, he had a rough time finding himself, and I still don't blame him. I feel like some people think Haubaugh like gave him his talent, no he has always been talented, Haubaugh just gave him a gameplan, and gave him some confidence again after getting beat on year after year by fans, and media....Im not sure what you guys are talking about overall but I just wanted to say that. I think Smith has always been that talented, the 9ers were just horribly ran for most of his career there...

IF Smith was all that, he would have taken his job back, Harbaugh figgured it out quick enough.

Agreed. Harbaugh understood he wasn't going to keep up with the Jones' with a guy named Smith.

I do think Smith was / is a very serviceable QB and could take the right team deep (think Dilfer). But he landed in KC so I guess we will never know.

HawkWow wrote:Agreed. Not only does Gus not play nicely, he inspires thoughts like this:

"It's an ominous sign for Flynn's future as a viable starter that Bradley is reluctant to make a push for him after the two shared a season in Seattle. The same could be said for Miami Dolphins coach Joe Philbin, who didn't pull the trigger on Flynn last offseason after tutoring the quarterback with the Green Bay Packers".

Philbin thought because he had an inside track, that he could talk Flynn into signing for the cheap, and too, who would have expected that 3rd round pick Russell Wilson would blow the doors off in pre-Season and beyond?There's an arguement by FANSIDEDAILY, that says that Flynn won't garner any kind of upper tier Draft pick, because he couldn't even beat out a 3rd rounder..This is a stupid arguement, because now it's a given, that Wilson has proven to be a 1st round talent that got dissed for being too short,,That kind of poor scouting judgement actually got a few guys sent down the road kicking horse turds.

He won't garner an upper tier pick because nobody in the NFL values him that highly, it's been demonstrated in his FA period and it looks like it's being demonstrated now. Both the Bills and the Raiders will likely look to grab a QB in the draft, Flynn will be seen as a stop gap/come on in and compete type option and will garner a pick that reflects that.

HawkWow wrote:Agreed. Not only does Gus not play nicely, he inspires thoughts like this:

"It's an ominous sign for Flynn's future as a viable starter that Bradley is reluctant to make a push for him after the two shared a season in Seattle. The same could be said for Miami Dolphins coach Joe Philbin, who didn't pull the trigger on Flynn last offseason after tutoring the quarterback with the Green Bay Packers".

Philbin thought because he had an inside track, that he could talk Flynn into signing for the cheap, and too, who would have expected that 3rd round pick Russell Wilson would blow the doors off in pre-Season and beyond?There's an arguement by FANSIDEDAILY, that says that Flynn won't garner any kind of upper tier Draft pick, because he couldn't even beat out a 3rd rounder..This is a stupid arguement, because now it's a given, that Wilson has proven to be a 1st round talent that got dissed for being too short,,That kind of poor scouting judgement actually got a few guys sent down the road kicking horse turds.

He won't garner an upper tier pick because nobody in the NFL values him that highly, it's been demonstrated in his FA period and it looks like it's being demonstrated now. Both the Bills and the Raiders will likely look to grab a QB in the draft, Flynn will be seen as a stop gap/come on in and compete type option and will garner a pick that reflects that.

Little did he know at the time, but Pete didn't help us much by giving Flynn such a vanilla set last pre-season. It was all about game management and Flynn was clearly scared to death of turning the ball over. Throw in the hard charging rookie that was gaining favor with the coach and it was (I'm sure) a very hard situation for Flynn to showcase himself.

HawkWow wrote:Agreed. Not only does Gus not play nicely, he inspires thoughts like this:

"It's an ominous sign for Flynn's future as a viable starter that Bradley is reluctant to make a push for him after the two shared a season in Seattle. The same could be said for Miami Dolphins coach Joe Philbin, who didn't pull the trigger on Flynn last offseason after tutoring the quarterback with the Green Bay Packers".

Philbin thought because he had an inside track, that he could talk Flynn into signing for the cheap, and too, who would have expected that 3rd round pick Russell Wilson would blow the doors off in pre-Season and beyond?There's an arguement by FANSIDEDAILY, that says that Flynn won't garner any kind of upper tier Draft pick, because he couldn't even beat out a 3rd rounder..This is a stupid arguement, because now it's a given, that Wilson has proven to be a 1st round talent that got dissed for being too short,,That kind of poor scouting judgement actually got a few guys sent down the road kicking horse turds.

He won't garner an upper tier pick because nobody in the NFL values him that highly, it's been demonstrated in his FA period and it looks like it's being demonstrated now. Both the Bills and the Raiders will likely look to grab a QB in the draft, Flynn will be seen as a stop gap/come on in and compete type option and will garner a pick that reflects that.

On this we'll have to agree to dissagree.Flynn isn't as athletic or mobile as Wilson, but with the right System and RB threats, he could maybe surprise the hell out of the doubters.Flynn has NFL experience and there are NO certainty QB's in this Draft, so I'm betting that his 6TDs against the Lions ( GB record) will influence some to be taking a lot closer look at him, AND, JS will have a different Value Chart on him than most here on .NET

scutterhawk wrote:On this we'll have to agree to dissagree.Flynn isn't as athletic or mobile as Wilson, but with the right System and RB threats, he could maybe surprise the hell out of the doubters.Flynn has NFL experience and there are NO certainty QB's in this Draft, so I'm betting that his 6TDs against the Lions ( GB record) will influence some to be taking a lot closer look at him, AND, JS will have a different Value Chart on him than most here on .NET

That game was over a year ago, if he wasn't wanted by that many teams a few months after that game, as a free agent what makes you think his demand is going to be higher with a team having to trade for him. I'd be surprised if he's worth more than a 5th round personally

checkdanews wrote: Smith's a former #1 overall pick who recently led his team to the NFC Championship game, and has since warranted a high second round pick from the Chiefs.Haubaugh didn't put kap in because he didn't sign Manning, He put him in because Smith got a head injury, and Just never gave smith his job back. Smith was drafted high, and there were high expectations for him, but I blame him less then I blame whoever runs the show in SF. If Smith got the talent he needed around him, and the coaching he needs around him...then he would of had success early. He is a talented QB. BUT since the 9ers went from coach, to coach, to coach, to coach, he had a rough time finding himself, and I still don't blame him. I feel like some people think Haubaugh like gave him his talent, no he has always been talented, Haubaugh just gave him a gameplan, and gave him some confidence again after getting beat on year after year by fans, and media....Im not sure what you guys are talking about overall but I just wanted to say that. I think Smith has always been that talented, the 9ers were just horribly ran for most of his career there...

IF Smith was all that, he would have taken his job back, Harbaugh figgured it out quick enough.

Agreed. Harbaugh understood he wasn't going to keep up with the Jones' with a guy named Smith.

I do think Smith was / is a very serviceable QB and could take the right team deep (think Dilfer). But he landed in KC so I guess we will never know.

Smith picked up an injury and Kaepernick exploded in reserve, winning the job.

It wasn't a passing of the torch. Had Smith not got injured, he would've remained the starter. He was among the statistically best ranked QB's in the NFL last year. It's not his fault Kaepernick played the way he did.

According to Yahoo Sports' Jason Cole, the scouting report among ex-Packers executives is that Matt Flynn's "lack of arm strength will eventually be exposed by opposing teams."The Raiders have been most heavily connected to a Flynn trade, but former Packers personnel man Reggie McKenzie is their GM. A deal makes sense on the surface because of McKenzie's quarterback need and Flynn familiarity, but he's not going to give up a high or even middle-round pick for a passer he's deemed incapable of starting-caliber performance. We're still skeptical that Flynn will be traded ahead of the draft for anything more than a sixth-round pick

DavidSeven wrote:Who cares about "similar skill set"? There is only one Russell Wilson. Best back-up is the best QB. Plain and simple.

Because you have to change your entire game plan if you don't have a QB with a similar skill set. Maybe you should talk to JS and PC and convince them that doesn't matter, they are after a QB with a similar skill set to Wilson.

DavidSeven wrote:Who cares about "similar skill set"? There is only one Russell Wilson. Best back-up is the best QB. Plain and simple.

Because you have to change your entire game plan if you don't have a QB with a similar skill set. Maybe you should talk to JS and PC and convince them that doesn't matter, they are after a QB with a similar skill set to Wilson.

Pete mentioned it'd be "nice" to have a back-up who could do some of the same things Russell could do. Of course it would be nice. But at the end of the day, you always go with the better QB.

Look at Washington. Cousins cannot do the same things RGIII does and Washington runs read option more than any other team. Yet, when Cousins filled in, he was still very productive, even though they had to "change their whole game plan." We ran option plays something like 10% of the time. It's not a huge part of the offense.

A player that has physical skill sets to back up Wilson isn't all you need, the one thing that sets a good QB away from the rest is his intelligence and ability tp process information, it's why Jackson failed here. You can't throw an idiot or a horse that has to be force fed water into the position.

I wish some of you would understand that concept. it's why so many players fail, everyone gets hung up solely on speed and how far they can throw a fricking ball, not how they learn, retain information and how fast they can make a decision and execute the physical move on that decision.

To Be P/C or Not P/C That is the Question..........Seahawks kick Ass !!!! Check your PM's, Thank you for everything Radish RIP My Friend. Member of the 38 club.

chris98251 wrote:A player that has physical skill sets to back up Wilson isn't all you need, the one thing that sets a good QB away from the rest is his intelligence and ability tp process information, it's why Jackson failed here. You can't throw an idiot or a horse that has to be force fed water into the position.

Exactly. Some people thing Tyler Thipgen is good because he's fast and was able to superficially pad his stats with his Tony Gonzalez tunnel-vision for half a season, but he has shown consistently that he does not have what it takes mentally to be a successful NFL QB.

Surely any quarterback with Tony Gonzalez to throw at is going to make sure he's the go-to target?

In 16 seasons of NFL football, Gonzalez enjoyed his fourth most productive for yardage (1058) and second most productive for touchdowns (10) with Thigpen throwing the football. If that's padding, maybe some of the other QB's the Chiefs had should've done the same.

I watched Thigpen live in 2008 and thought he had something about him. Not because he was fast or was padding his stats. Mainly because he showed a grasp of the offense he was working within (lot of pistol), was efficient with the football, made good decisions and was productive within a completely lousy Kansas City Chiefs team.

theENGLISHseahawk wrote:Surely any quarterback with Tony Gonzalez to throw at is going to make sure he's the go-to target?

Definitely, but outside of 5-10 yard passes to the greatest TE of all time, he has looked completely lost, or at least he does when I've watched him. Even in that season that gives people hope about him, he barely completely half his passes and his only win was a tight game against a 4-12 Raiders squad (I'm not going to pretend to have known that offhand, I just looked up their record that season). The arm isn't there, the decision making isn't there, the accuracy isn't there. I would feel very uncomfortable depending on him as our primary backup. Although, I've always been advocating for Rex Grossman to take over Flynn's spot, so I could see why some wouldn't put much stock in my opinion.

WmHBonney wrote:I can feel it in my bones.....we trade Flynn and we will regret it.

I think your bones are wrong.

Seriously, what gives anyone the remotest idea that Flynn is even close enough to Wilson that he'd save our season if Wilson was injured?

I'm as confident in Thigpen, McCoy, or even Kolb as a backup as I am in Flynn. Wilson is so incredibly important for our offense that even if we keep Flynn, we're screwed if Wilson goes down. So if we're screwed either way, give me someone less expensive so at least we can invest elsewhere and make a strong run for a championship on the off chance that Wilson DOESN'T get injured.

Hell, I'll take a Jim Sorgi type. After all, the Colts did pretty damn well while he was their backup.

Harbaugh understood he wasn't going to keep up with the Jones' with a guy named Smith.

I do think Smith was / is a very serviceable QB and could take the right team deep (think Dilfer). But he landed in KC so I guess we will never know.

Smith picked up an injury and Kaepernick exploded in reserve, winning the job.

It wasn't a passing of the torch. Had Smith not got injured, he would've remained the starter. He was among the statistically best ranked QB's in the NFL last year. It's not his fault Kaepernick played the way he did.

With all respect, your post sounds like it was damage control written by Harbaugh's publicist. Smith got a concussion and Harbaugh, seeing the success of RW, RG3 and Newton, took advantage of Smith's injury and stayed with the (mobile) guy, his guy, that he drafted the year before.

Typically in the NFL, regardless of how the back-ups play, the starter usually won't lose his job because of (short-term) injury. You point out that Smith was playing great ball at the time of the injury and that really just bolsters my point: It wasn't the passing of the torch, it was get out of the way, Alex or I'll burn your house down.

BTW...not knocking anyone involved. It was (thus far) the right call by Harbaugh and Smith gets to get the hell out of SF. Win /Win.

WmHBonney wrote:I can feel it in my bones.....we trade Flynn and we will regret it.

The dude threw 9 passes last year. All in the cardinals game. We would probably be fine with Robinson as our backup qb, maybe even Pete.

...and therein the problem lies. The unknown. Many of us were hyped by the signing of Flynn. We hoped that the record setting Packer QB was our answer. Then this Russell Wilson character comes along and..... I think there is a mystique to Flynn caused by a lot of unanswered questions. Nobody here knows how good or bad he really is and that is why this subject bounces around like a pinball. I STILL want to see how good he is...but now, in the AFC.