Hm, I don't get that at all. Rap has ALWAYS been about ego. Ever since the days where the emcee surpassed the DJ in popularity it's been a boastful genre. Being modest is pretty alternative in rap.

And mumbling? Regardless of content, Wayne in his prime could RAP (technical skill) circles around anyone on the planet. I feel like you've heard like 4 songs on radio and really don't know what you're talking about. Which was my point in the first place. So many strong opinions about a dude people don't know much about.

And what is 'everything that made hip-hop popular' that Wayne is missing? That doesn't make sense to me either.

If you're interested, I posted some good Wayne for someone else on here recently

Well, I did get my impression from the few trash songs I heard on the radio, that may be true. But they're still his songs and he's still responsible for them. :P

Ego without substance, I meant. But that comment about him rapping circles around anyone... come on. Who are you kidding. I could list a dozen MCs off the top of my head that surpass him by leaps and bounds. Twista, Andre, Mos (it's not always about speed, but sometimes about cleverness), and on.

What made hip hop popular is a different scene than what made rap popular (the genre). The two are - though sometimes indistinguishable - different breeds of music. Gangster rap is not my scene. It's just a bad scene altogether. Real hip hop brings a message and doesn't rely on pop hooks and exploitation. I could go on.

ugh, the "there's rap and then there's hip hop" is one of my personal least favorite sentences. backpacker's favorite thing to say. It's such a stupid sentiment. Mos & Andre are rappers that make rap music.

3 Stacks is in my favorite rappers ever above Wayne but even then Wayne's output during that period after Tha Carter II was fucking beastly. Andre has barely rapped in the last decade. And Wayne won out over Andre on Hollywood Divorce in my opinion.

Wayne doesn't rely on pop hooks. Never has. A Milli didn't even have a damn chorus and that shit smashed and is still influencing rap nowadays (Kendrick Lamar) Wayne has hours and hours of really great music. His craziest shit was always on his mixtapes. There's nothing pop about that.

Anyway, you proved my point. You know little about the guy and have a strong opinion about him. That's what I was getting at.

Modern gangster rap is completely different than what the NWA did. You just can't compare garbage like 50 Cent to Mobb.

Dude, Twista raps at the speed of light. Wayne couldn't touch him, period. And even if you think his part in one song might have been beter than Andres, that's no measure of skill. Check out Southernplayalistic~ and tell me Andre doesn't have the flow of a champion.

Yeah, not a fan of gangsta rap at all bro. It's borderline hate speak. Sure, we should All take it with a grain of salt, but the sad truth is that shit drives the primitive, criminal element of society like no other medium. You can call it music if you like, but I think it's deplorable.

Dude, it's not just speed it's all about flow. Twista's got it tight, lil Wayne sounds like he's got a speech impediment.

"Real hip-hop" is the worst thing I have ever heard since people started complaining about "yoloswag" and shit like that.

What? Tell that to dead prez bro. Maybe you should try something other than mainstream g unit shit.

Okay but my thing is, what's a guy from the hood gonna rap about other than what he sees? They're not gonna be talking about how to balance a checkbook or how kid should eat vegetables. When someone from the hood DOES speak out about it, it comes off as extremely preachy (see: Lupe Fiasco lately)

At any rate, the fact that you see G Unit as a part of the "mainstream" shows how dated your views are.

Wayne has one of the best flows to ever grace the game, dude. He's fallen off hard as of late with his Trukfit bullshit, but there's no denying he was one of the best in the mid-2000s. Twista's raw as fuck too.

I do "try something other than mainstream g unit shit" and am a big fan of both "real hip hop" as you and other backpack elitists like to call it and the more mainstream stuff.

There's rapping about it, telling their story - and then there's glorifying murder and the gangland lifestyle. Some folks can do one without resorting to the other. Reaching out for that mob mentality and primitive hate to gain popularity, that doesn't sit right with me. And I'm not just talkin' recent. Mainstream has history that's still relevant.

Lupe might seem preachy, but he still makes decent music and at least you won't hear those songs blaring during drive-bys.

Let me try and define what I call real hip hop - as much as you seem to hate the concept: No gimmicks, no feat. Alicia Keys/Minaj, no auto-tune or action movie samples, no primitive, incomprehensible mumbling and growling. Let me give you two examples. This is how I see them as polar extremes, realizing there's room in-between to experiment:

I get your point and I'm not saying gangsta rap is the best genre, nor is it a positive message. I don't hate "real hip hop"; I love it actually. What I hate is the elitist mentality that that's the only acceptable form of hip-hop allowed.

Your comparison is apples to oranges and Flocka has gone out and said he knows he's not a good rapper, has shitty lyrics, etc. His music isn't one to listen to for deep lyrics, it's to get hyped and party music. It serves its purpose well.

I don't think it's elitist. I think it's just people's disdain for the degradation of a great genre. Like what metal and alternative turned into in the late 90s-2000. Where once we had some real heavy hitters, soon they were replaced by more angsty, radio-friendly pop junk like Staind and Nickelback (and its many clone bands). That's not a perfect example, but you get what I mean.

Edit: and yes, you're "allowed" to listen to that stuff, it's a free country. But its popularity won't make us any happier about it.

Twista is in no way comparable to Lil Wayne in either technical skill or musical achievement. It's hard to even call that an opinion. It's just fact, man. Twista is so much less versatile and has much less critically acclaimed music.

50 Cent is hardly modern. I don't know why you brought him up. GRODT was a great album though and Power of a Dollar was a great mixtape, but 50 didn't have much after that in my opinion. Mobb had a great run.

Yes, Andre is an amazing rapper and an amazing artist. My point was that during Wayne's reign, Andre wasn't in the booth. Again, Andre's just now coming back to rapping. Wayne actually has a track on his last album with just Tech N9ne and Andre. Andre's verse is pretty crazy you should check it.

There is great modern gangster rap though. ScHoolboy Q comes to mind. Gunplay, Fat Trel, Alley Boy. All fairly new artists it's hard to compare them to artists that have been at it for decades, but still making really great music.

We could argue forever, but again you barely know anything about Lil Wayne so the argument is pointless. You've decided somehow that he's terrible. I strongly disagree. Neither will change their mind. You should try Tha Carter I-III, great albums you might enjoy.