That's all we're doing for the night... Give Griff a fucking HAND for all the insane counting he did tonight. He tackled the entirety of Lost Children by himself; a feat I certainly didn't think was possible. I think we'll both need a break after this. What a loooooong night it's been.

That's all we're doing for the night... Give Griff a fucking HAND for all the insane counting he did tonight. He tackled the entirety of Lost Children by himself; a feat I certainly didn't think was possible. I think we'll both need a break after this. What a loooooong night it's been.

Applause and Cheers

This is a great thread. Thanks guys! If another artbook is released a list like this should be included.

Logged

What I am today is a result of the uncountable nights it took to reach him.

Some Guy

That's all we're doing for the night... Give Griff a fucking HAND for all the insane counting he did tonight. He tackled the entirety of Lost Children by himself; a feat I certainly didn't think was possible. I think we'll both need a break after this. What a loooooong night it's been.

Yeah, I actually joked about that earlier with Griff. I even considered the possibility that Guts may have been carrying a contagion But, we all know it's horseshit

Speaking of horseshit, there are still 2 "items/jokes" that have been brought up by people through PM/IM that I refuse to put in the list:

-The logs that Guts chops down for his training in the mountains during the flashback in volume 11.

-Guts' own arm, which becomes a distinct object the moment he hacks it off.

Should they stay or go?

Other than the above, it seems we've pretty much got everything now, volume 1 to the current episode. Waiting to see who takes Daiba down Now, I'm just double/triple/quadruple checking the manga, and implementing changes as they roll in.

It's funny, last week I started a list like this but the grey areas started to stack up and I dropped it. There are a few volumes where Guts doesn't harm a soul, then there's episodes like the 100-man battle, Griffith's rescue and the Lost Children. I was having a hard time with the eclipse Hawk slaughter...the apostles that Guts appears to have mortally wounded often had more than one head. Also, there are a couple years with the Hawks that aren't chronicled at all, so there's no telling how many Guts took down in that time. Busy guy.

I think Guts has definitely graduated from the "Century Slayer" to the "Millenium Falcon" by now tho.

Edit: Just noticed on the list that Wyald is listed, but Zodd was the one that killed him.

-The logs that Guts chops down for his training in the mountains during the flashback in volume 11.

-Guts' own arm, which becomes a distinct object the moment he hacks it off.

Should they stay or go?

Since the logs are already dead trees, they prob. shouldn't count (but then again you _are_ counting ghosts...)But keep in mind you're probably opening a whole new can of worms when you start counting the flora Guts has killed. Think of all the work you'd be giving Griffith in the Lost Children arc.

As for the arm... is that a kill? Its a "loss", but not really a kill. Again. you count THAT arm, might as well count the rest of the severed limbs.

Since the logs are already dead trees, they prob. shouldn't count (but then again you _are_ counting ghosts...)

The trees were alive until he chopped them down. I'm sure he didn't just find some conveniently chopped trees laying around. Think of it from Schierke's perspective. Remember her reaction to all those wooden ships in the docks of Vritannis? What would she say if she knew her beloved Guts killed innocent trees?

As for the ghosts, it's definitely more grey area, but I was convinced by the effort Guts puts into scattering their "bodies" when he slashes them. Since only the sun can truly dispel them, Guts would be getting gypped if he didn't get some credit for holding them off.

The final decision on most of these grey areas was to include everything, so that in the final list, people can sort it however they like. In the roster's final form, if users don't think something qualifies as a kill, they'll be able to remove it from the final calculation.

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As for the arm... is that a kill? Its a "loss", but not really a kill. Again. you count THAT arm, might as well count the rest of the severed limbs.

Yeah, I was never seriously considering counting the arm. I just wanted a general concensus on why it shouldn't be counted. Personally, I like Borgoff's "consciousness" bit, though even that's pretty debatable with some of the creatures in the series.

...the apostles that Guts appears to have mortally wounded often had more than one head. Also, there are a couple years with the Hawks that aren't chronicled at all, so there's no telling how many Guts took down in that time. Busy guy.

Edit: Just noticed on the list that Wyald is listed, but Zodd was the one that killed him.

All apostles, specifically Wyald and the Count took some consideration before their inclusion. Ultimately though, Guts put those two in positions where they were vulnerable enough to be killed... so, it's indeed grey area. As for the apostles at the eclipse and at Flora's Mansion, it's too difficult to say what happened to them, so I included them "just in case."

I think a line should be drawn somewhere. The trees are a bit much. Pretty soon we'll be counting all the cells in his immune system. All the same, I think you guys did an amazingly thorough job. To link it back to Chung's fight thread...you could include some pictures of memorable death stabs. Maybe even a brief description or something. Very cool stuff guys.

I can understanding giving credit of a kill when the ghosts posess a living creature and that creature gets killed, but the hopeless struggle against the ghosts (in that they can never truly be "killed") is part of the story.

But not part of this kill roster. Anyway, Guts doesn't just swing right through them like they aren't there. They break in half and ghost guts come flying out of them for goodness sake. And like you say, we DON'T know exactly what happens to them. For all we know, he can banish them but more keep coming until the sun rises. Also, this is a casualty count, not a referendum on the meaning of life and death.

No matter how many times Guts sends them away I don't think they're ever banished or sent to another plane. I suppose that can't be proven either way but I think assigning any credit for a "kill" on the ghosts would be odd.

So you've said, and like you also say, based on what, your feelings about ghosts?

Shut up, you hippies. =)

P.S. CnC's post was destroyed in a mishap, but you can read most of it in the quotes above. Whoops, sorry C.

But not part of this kill roster. Anyway, Guts doesn't just swing right through them like they aren't there. They break in half and ghost guts come flying out of them for goodness sake. And like you say, we DON'T know exactly what happens to them. For all we know, he can banish them but more keep coming until the sun rises. Also, this is a casualty count, not a referendum on the meaning of life and death.

So you've said, and like you also say, based on what, your feelings about ghosts? Shut up, you hippies. =)

CnC, you jackass. Of course its not supposed to be referendum on the meaning of life and death. Just counting ghosts being cut in half as a casualty is redundant.

Jeez, must you criticise EVERYTHING? I like the site, but CnC, you're just _too_ much, man...

And the fish in the waterfall isn't? The one Casca eats at the beginning of volume 23 should also count.

I think since you never see Guts actually catching them, they can be omitted. You only see him washing his shirt in the previous panel, so according to the on-screen-kill-rule it should not be included...if that rule still applies.As for the logs, I'd say that to Guts, it should not be that much of an effort to cut down a few trees, since they're not really posing a threat when they were "alive".( And they weren't "killed" on-screen anyway)That fish-kill shows us the result of Guts training in spite of the loss of his right eye and should therefore be included IMHO (and it's on-screen).

I think since you never see Guts actually catching them, they can be omitted. You only see him washing his shirt in the previous panel, so according to the on-screen-kill-rule it should not be included...if that rule still applies.

"If, in the next panel, there are a display of bodies, each one with blood, or an identifyable injury, and Guts was directly responsible for their deaths, counts."

As for the logs, I'd say that to Guts, it should not be that much of an effort to cut down a few trees, since they're not really posing a threat when they were "alive".

I don't think it's "not that much of an effort", especially considering the fact he failed to cut them down at the waterfall... I mean they're trees, not the kind of stuff that's easy to slice through.

That fish-kill shows us the result of Guts training in spite of the loss of his right eye and should therefore be included IMHO (and it's on-screen).

That's actually a good call. It does fall within the parameters I guess. It's just hard to take it seriously. I don't think Guts would be keeping track of something so trivial. If it were up to me, I don't think I would include it in the list, although Chung's argument is enough to give the fish a shred of dignity. I think this is where the mod's step in and keep us nerds at bay.

What, you think you're nerdier than me? I made a list of a fictional character's kills.

And I don't think that reasoning is really necessary for the fish. The only real standing rule right now is that Guts has to be responsible for its death. If you want to reason, speculate what happened to the Apostles at the eclipse (those that Guts bashed the heads in).