March 24, 2020

I'm no fan of Prime Minister Modi, because he reminds me of President Trump in some disturbing ways. But his decision to institute a strict lockdown of everybody in India for three weeks is the right thing to do -- even though this is going to create a lot of hardship.

NEW DELHI — India’s prime minister ordered all 1.3 billion people in the country to stay inside their homes for three weeks starting Wednesday — the biggest and most severe action undertaken anywhere to stop the spread of the coronavirus.

“There will be a total ban of coming out of your homes,” the prime minister, Narendra Modi, announced on television Tuesday night, giving Indians less than four hours’ notice before the order took effect at 12:01 a.m.

“Every state, every district, every lane, every village will be under lockdown,” Mr. Modi said.

The breadth and depth of such a challenge is staggering in a country where hundreds of millions of citizens are destitute and countless millions live in packed urban areas with poor sanitation and weak public health care.

Though India’s number of reported coronavirus infections remains relatively low — around 500 — the fear is that, should the virus hit as it has in the United States, Europe or China, the consequences would lead to a disaster far bigger than anywhere else.

...In his televised address, Mr. Modi basically said there was no choice.

“If you can’t handle these 21 days, this country and your family will go back 21 years,” Mr. Modi said. “The only option is social distancing, to remain away from each other. There is no way out to escape from coronavirus besides this.”

...India has some of Asia’s biggest slums, and experts fear what would happen if the coronavirus spreads in a city like Mumbai, home to 20 million people, where space is at a premium and many families squeeze six or even eight to a room.

Understand: I'm not minimizing the difficulties this is going to create in India. The New York Times story talks about this, which includes the fact that Modi only gave four hours notice of the lockdown. How many Indians have three weeks of food and other essential supplies in their homes?

But the alternative is even worse, allowing the coronavirus to spread unchecked.

Here in Oregon, where I live, yesterday Governor Kate Brown announced a Stay Home, Save Lives executive order that is a much milder form of what is being imposed in India. This is a summary of that order.

We're free to leave our homes. We can visit groceries, pharmacies, restaurants (take-out only), gas stations, and other places. This afternoon I went to a UPS store to mail in a passport renewal, a pharmacy to pick up some prescriptions, and a Starbucks drive-through to cheer myself up with a decaf nonfat vanilla latte.

It felt good to get out and do some normal things, though the passenger seat of my car is filled with a N-95 mask, gloves, cleansing soap wipes, and hand sanitizer. (My wife has asthma, so we're being especially careful to avoid the coronavirus, since it attacks the lungs.)

Given that our daily life has been much different since the coronavirus outbreak in the United States became serious, I have a lot of sympathy for people in India.

The lockdown there is much more strict than what any place in this country has put into place. But again, now is the time to be as strict as possible. The longer governments wait to control an outbreak, the more lives will be lost and the more extensive economic damage will be.

I can't believe how many times I've said, "Trump can't do anything worse than what he did today." But he does. And today was the latest example of appalling worstness.

During the daily White House coronavirus briefing, where Trump hogs the microphone while other officials cower in the background, doing their best to keep a poker face as Trump rambles on semi-coherently, our Idiot-in-Chief announced that he wants to make saving lives a distant second priority to resuming business as usual by the end of March.

Why? Well, because he doesn't want the country to be in a recession, or even depression, when the 2020 presidential election happens in November.

Of course, if hundreds of thousands of Americans, or even millions, have died from the coronavirus by November 2020, it is extremely unlikely that Trump is going to win the election. People know that lives are hugely more important than money. Money can be recovered. But death is final.

So as India suffers through the next three weeks, I hope Indians keep in mind that as bad as things will be, they would be much worse if Prime Minister Modi hadn't ordered the lockdown.

So you're saying he didn't take the call because he doesn't have the brain, his policy makers did, and yet he's the one to blame for taking the decision? You're not making much sense.

South Korea or Norway have different economic and socio-political dynamics and ethos. Compare the population density, the mind-set of the citizens. India is a country where people spit and sh*t in the streets. To contain the virus, you's need draconian measures to restrain the hosts. Which school of economics did you study?

Not the first time in its history. In 1965, when India was far far more impoverished, during the war with Pakistan, India faced acute food shortages, Prime Minister Shastri urged Indian to go hungry one day a week. And the whole country rallied.

No one make the mistake of underestimating the popularity of Narendra Modi. He is as tall a leader as Lal Bahadur Shastri if not taller.

The likes of Mahatma Gandhi and Jawaharlal Nehru and his lineage have pushed India into the sad state it is in.

And that mentally deficient Indian is an asslicker of the current members of Nehru family.

Well, we’re facing a shit storm of mammoth proportions. It’s really not so much the markets that are moving our government to want people to return to work soon, it’s the Pentagon and intelligence community. The average American lives in a bubble of safety and freedom and takes that bubble for granted. The truth is we’ve been fighting a stealth war with China for years now. Every day we’re fighting numerous attacks on our infrastructure—especially the grid unbeknownst to most. You get to sleep well at night not realizing what’s really at stake. China is now waging a full scale stealth war on all fronts against the US. Of course, you don’t have to worry about that. All you have to worry about is not dying from COVID-19 (which is a considerable worry).

China plans to be the world leader. And when I say world leader, I mean goodbye democracy. We’re extremely vulnerable right now. We have to worry about blackouts most likely targeted at some of our major cities. We have Americans working secretly for China in some of our most elite labs. You probably didn’t hear about the three Harvard biologists arrested in January. Two were Chinese nationals and one was an American being paid quite generously to fly back and forth to Wuhan with American intellectual property, research and samples.

It’s a juggling act trying to keep the economy from going into a Great Depression, saving people’s retirement funds, saving the population from COVID-19, saving our infrastructure and keeping the grid functional as well as fighting all the propaganda—all day every day. If America fails, democracy everywhere loses. And you don’t want to lose the freedoms you have. You also don’t want to lose the bubble of safety and inalienable rights you take for granted. And when I say you, I mean all Americans.

It’s a tall order. Thank God all you have to worry about is COVID-19.

I love India, but if America fails, India’s democracy will be at stake as well.

I understand your emotion. I won't abuse you or use foul language but let me try to explain and see if you can comprehend. What would you rather see in your nation - poor daily wage workers unable to make money for a month because they can't get out, or people dying and infecting millions of others?

What are you suggesting? That people be allowed to go out and work or is the lock-down fair as long as the government, or Modi if you want to take a stab at him personally, offers free food and supplies for 21 days to all low wage earners?

It's not a forced lock-down. You can go get groceries, petrol stations are open, pharmacies and healthcare facilities are open, cash machines are operational. The last thing you want is ill-informed people making ill-informed statements like "this is taking Draconian to a new level".

The government is setting up a special economic task-force to deal with the crisis. Large corporations are offering medical facilities and high net-worth individuals are pledging $ millions of their personal wealth. I just read RSSB has offered its properties across India starting with Beas into makeshift isolation wards.

I own an internet start-up and we're not going to lay-off anyone, we'll not pay the founding team for the rest of the year if that's what's required. But that's a small step. As a citizen, I am taking a much bigger step, following the instructions and staying in.

What are you doing - other than complaining?

"Just wait and watch people will automatically die of hunger. No need for the coronavirus." - is that what you wish for? The government has taken the right step under the circumstances in the best interest of 1.3bn citizens. When this demonstrates positive results and other governments and nations take note, we'll see where you are with your nonsense. I bet you won't be here.

Yes, President Trump wants to ease restrictions in a few weeks. Who doesn't?

This lockdown is akin to holding your breath -- it can't go on indefinitely or life stops. If this world lockdown goes on indefinitely, very soon there won't be any food in the stores, or gas for our cars, or any of the 10,000 other essentials that can only come from a working, co-dependent economy. In time, there won't be civil order. That is a reality every bit as real as the virus' health threat to our bodies.

There is another essential that people need: hope.

POTUS simply offered a vision of hope, a goal that people can look forward to if they adhere to the quarantine. It's disheartening to see it immediately weaponized.

“There will be a total ban of coming out of your homes,” the prime minister, Narendra Modi, announced on television Tuesday night, giving Indians less than four hours’ notice before the order took effect at 12:01 a.m.”

You could have responded with an explanation of the type of lockdown first before being so condescendingly passive aggressive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is the character of an evil. Character of not thinking about the effect of one's actions.

It is easy to fart but not control its smell.

And my language is of the lowest level, yes consider that. Psychopaths since 2014 have made gentlemen in India cheapsters. What we can do.

Also one more thing. If you are a satsangi and a follower of RSSB then your support of criminals means that you are a fake.

Evil people like you sit in satsangs but don't stop their evil actions. Actors! You show your outward support to Santmat teachings but from inward you support Devi and Devtas(Hindu Gods and goddesses) and worship Brahmanical ideologies!

Amd yes I am a satsangi, a regular lurker in this blog who decided to comment some 2-3 days back. I was not commenting about spirituality but since you have brought in RSSB let me answer you.

The rich swamis and rich well educated people in India live a far easier life than the average American. They live better than upper class Americans. They have servants and people who clean their homes and cook their meals. They are a small minority of the very large Indian population so they never run out of people to look down upon. They are so out of touch with reality. So out of touch with what it’s really like to try and get by in this world. They probably have the most elitist mindset of any group I’ve ever known.

Sit in your ivory tower with your servants who provide you with so much idle time to scoff and look down upon anyone who’s not you or or is not like you.

My doctor gave me the prescription for hydroxychloroquine. I’ve taken it before—once before a trip I made to Asia in 2016. It’s safe. I was prescribed small doses and it’s a name brand filled at my local pharmacy. Then he gave me another prescription for it in February.

I appreciate your concern. I’m very careful about any kind of drug or “natural” medicine I take. A lot of so called natural treatments can be dangerous if you don’t consult with your doctor first. I have a really good GP doctor and two other specialists. I’m not one to take anything willy nilly these days. I learned that lesson 16 years ago when I took gaba supplements before consulting my doctor.

The Solution was available a long time ago - when the first few cases spread to countries outside of China.

China had a major advantage over all other countries. The infection was localised to Wuhan. So they did the intelligent thing and totally closed off Wuhan from the rest of China. Complete lockdown enforced for the safety of the citizens.

Even then they could barely cope with the huge numbers of infections. Makeshift hospitals helped.

Now compare this to all other contries: the virus infections are spread out all over the country. You cannot lockdown a specific area to save the rest of the country.

The one solution that was available was this: Stop all incoming passenger flights immediately, regardless of the economic costs.

If a flight is very important and MUST come into a country - quarantine all the passengers for 14 - 21 days as necessary and only release them once you know they are not infected.

The result would be no infections. Any existing infections - the government should have forcibly quarantined those people - not just tell them to self-isolate.

But what was happening was this:
Every country was looking at China and thinking "It will not happen here"
When countries had 3, 5,9,13,21 then 35 infections - it still did not register.
Clearly anyone could see that a total disaster was unavoidable because the numbers were increasing so fast.

Still - all the countries had their eyes closed. Still allowing flights in with infected people on board and telling them roam freely in the country.

I wrote to the UK prime minister at the time, explaining that unless all incoming flights and ships etc were stopped immediately - regardless of the cost - the country was in for a huge number of infections and no health service in the world can ever cope with such numbers.

But of course nobody was paying any attention because the numbers were small.

Trump even compared them figures to the much larger numbers dying from flu and heart attacks.

What he did not factor in was the fact that COVID-19 had only just begun it's journey of spreading and will likely kill millions of americans - far more than the flu.

Even now he is in denial of the facts. NY is going to be a huge disaster.

Trump was saying "I believe the death rate is likely below 1% as most have mild symptoms"

But he was no taking into account the huge numbers of "serious / critical cases" which without significant medical assistance will result in death,

Take Italy as an example: 74,000 infected, 7500 dead already (10%)
and 3500 critical - so death rate could be as high as 15% of those infected without good medical care. Those are huge numbers.

India is in a very serious situation. The lockdown will slow the progress but I don't think the country will be able to avoid the huge number of deaths that are inevitable because what happens when the lockdown is opened?
They dont have the medical facilities to deal with this.
1.3 Blllion people : if 50% are infected eventually that's 600 Million people
if 10% die, that's a huge 60 Million deaths.

It could easily be twice that number.

The only hope is that by delaying the spread, there might be a solution in time to avoid these huge numbers.

NY is already too late - they dont even have enough ventilators. Huge numbers will die and Trump plans to reopen for business as usual at easter.

2 Trillion dollars will help - but the disaster in NY will be huge - it will be impossible to avoid huge deaths now.

India is in a very serious situation. The lockdown will slow the progress but I don't think the country will be able to avoid the huge number of deaths that are inevitable because what happens when the lockdown is opened?
They dont have the medical facilities to deal with this.
1.3 Blllion people : if 50% are infected eventually that's 600 Million people
if 10% die, that's a huge 60 Million deaths.

It could easily be twice that number.

The only hope is that by delaying the spread, there might be a solution in time to avoid these huge numbers.

Posted by: Osho Robbins | March 26, 2020 at 04:09 AM

Are you an Epidemiologist or Virologist for You opine just like experts do but I suspect this to be the case.

However,

If you are a medical expert on viruses, is your proprietary model India centric and which throws up these numbers and if no, can you (1) refrain from ranting away some random numbers that come up in your head (2) request the blog owner that your misleading post is taken down

Once again, the world is taken in by models... and assumes models are dead-on accurate predictions of the future. Models do not predict the future. Models have never predicted the future. And we're already seeing the dire predictions of the coronavirus models breaking down:

@Dr S K Rao
The figures are already known.
india 20 march : 194
26 march : 727
that is a 3.5 x increase in 6 days despite a lockdown
if you project the numbers forward at the same rate, the figures are huge
go examine the figures and it shows the rate is accelerating unless something changes
china and s korea are the only countries where the rate is slowing

USA has been headed for the top of the charts for a while. dont need to be a virologist to figure that out. NY is the now the fastest growing state with almost 40,000 cases already - half of the number in china

are you saying it is unrealistic to project from the known figures?
NY will be over 80,000 within a week. dont need to be a genius to figure that out.

Once again, the world is taken in by models... and assumes models are dead-on accurate predictions of the future. Models do not predict the future. Models have never predicted the future. And we're already seeing the dire predictions of the coronavirus models breaking down:

Plane with 5 passengers on board, Donald Trump, Boris Johnson, Angela Merkel, The Pope and a ten year old school boy. The plane is about to crash and there are only 4 parachutes.
Trump said I need one. I’m the smartest man in the USA and am needed to sort out the problems of the World!’, takes one and jumps.
Boris said ‘I’m needed to sort out Britain’. He takes one and jumps.
The Pope said ‘I need one as the world needs the Catholic Church.’ He takes one and jumps.
Angela said to the ten year old: "You can have the last parachute. I've lived my life, yours is only just starting."
The 10 year old replied: "Don’t worry, there are 2 parachutes left, the smartest man in the USA took my school bag."

😊😂

Unfortunately it's a joke. Make that joker disappear. America might then salvage itself out of the Covid19 shit hole it's in.

Surgeon General C. Everett Koop insisted that heterosexual persons are were at risk of contracting AIDS. It never happened.

Anthony Fauci is today's current expert on the coronavirus. In the 80s, when he was with the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, Fauci was another one who predicted an AIDs epidemic to sweep the heterosexual masses of America. It never happened.

Fauci also theorized that kissing could transmit AIDS. Never happened. So much fo the experts knowing all.

But people are dying of coronavirus, particularly in New York. NY is by far the most active place for transmission. Who's to blame for that? The president?

Uh, the president wasn't the American leader who told people that worrying about the coronavirus was a bunch of racist nonsense and to go out and mingle.

If you are a medical expert on viruses, is your proprietary model India centric and which throws up these numbers and if no, can you (1) refrain from ranting away some random numbers that come up in your head (2) request the blog owner that your misleading post is taken down

Thanks

Posted by: Dr S K Rao | March 26, 2020 at 11:49 AM

@Rao,

Press the ignore button on this fella @osho.

His estimates aren't worth a dime. With medicinal background (I presume) you must have access to some projections about India. And am sure you will agree that the numbers are gonna be high for India despite best efforts (which are certainly zillion times better than those by a country named UK who this fellow @osho belongs).

@osho,

Stay inside, stay safe. Don't step out like that idiot Boris who did to applaud the NHS just a few hours before announcing he is Covid19+ (and yes despite already having the symptoms)

And yes....Charles after a such long wait has been finally Corona-ted. Many congratulations to the Pommies.

If you guys (dr s k rao - if you are even a real dr which is unlikely and Trevor Smith). Can actually read, my statement says “if” so it’s not a prophecy.
I merely pointed out that because India has such huge numbers of people, almost same as China, a large number of deaths is likely. China avoided huge deaths because the infections were localised to Wuhan. India does not have that advantage.
You don’t need to be a virologist to be able to work with figures. The figures tell you where this is heading.
Of course a new drug might come to the rescue. But right now it’s not looking good for any country. The U.K. once had 8 infections, and nobody paid any attention at that time. That was the time to stop all incoming flights. Once that window of opportunity passes, it’s too late to avoid a major catastrophe.

If a country acts early - it can avoid the large infections, but once they start spreading, they are not likely to stop until, according to some experts, 60 to 80% of the population is infected.
S Korea seems to be the only notable exception that has controlled it, and China because it was localised to Wuhan

If you guys (dr s k rao - if you are even a real dr which is unlikely and Trevor Smith). Can actually read, my statement says “if” so it’s not a prophecy.
I merely pointed out that because India has such huge numbers of people, almost same as China, a large number of deaths is likely. China avoided huge deaths because the infections were localised to Wuhan. India does not have that advantage.
You don’t need to be a virologist to be able to work with figures. The figures tell you where this is heading.
Of course a new drug might come to the rescue. But right now it’s not looking good for any country. The U.K. once had 8 infections, and nobody paid any attention at that time. That was the time to stop all incoming flights. Once that window of opportunity passes, it’s too late to avoid a major catastrophe.

If a country acts early - it can avoid the large infections, but once they start spreading, they are not likely to stop until, according to some experts, 60 to 80% of the population is infected.
S Korea seems to be the only notable exception that has controlled it, and China because it was localised to Wuhan
Posted by: Osho Robbins | March 27, 2020 at 12:12 PM

I just read your recent comments about India's situation and I must admit I am impressed. Impressed by the level of the stupidity therein.

You used 'if'. Ofcourse you used IF

So tell me what do you make of my statement - India has 1.3 Blllion people : if 100% are infected eventually that's 1.3bln people if 100% die, that's a huge 1.3bln deaths. Am sure you gonna say I make a lot of sense. Right.Also, Not to miss is the IF I use.

Then you say you don't need to be a virologist to know. Really?? What does a virologist do btw?

So are you an epidemiologist that you are able to put out a meaningful estimate having studied both the makeup of the virus and the footprint it is left till now. If you aren't either, you better well agree with my numbers because I am neither a virologist not an epidemiologist.

You also didn't say a large number of deaths is likely. So actually concocted up a number of 60mln. A more reasonable 'a large number' has actually be mentioned by Trevor Smith.

You also say, if a nation misses to contain on a timely basis, according to experts, the infection extends to 60-80% of population. Really? Since they are experts I am certain there must be some recent articles in the public domain detailing this bit along with the names of these experts. Can you provide a link?

You also say China contained/localised it by quarantine the entire province. What about the 5 million Chinese who left Wuhan before the quarantine kicked in? Amazing none of these 5million was infected.

Finally, when did India ban international flights into India? How late was India on this measure and which are the countries smarter than India which locked out ALL international flights before India and at an initial / earlier stage of infection spread.

"So often wrong...So much for the experts knowing all...But people are dying of coronavirus, particularly in New York. NY is by far the most active place for transmission. Who's to blame for that? The president?
Uh, the president wasn't the American leader who told people that worrying about the coronavirus was a bunch of racist nonsense and to go out and mingle.
That would be NY Mayor Bill DeBlasio."

Okay, so, somehow when Trump (Republican) dismisses experts and scientific modeling, he's blameless, but when de Blasio (Democrat) dismisses them, suddenly everything's his fault! Do you see the contradiction?

Here's another. De Blasio publicly embraced the science three days before Trump pretended to, so if you're going to knock de Blasio, please knock Trump too.
I know, I know, "pretended to" sounds snide, but he made it obvious in a briefing yesterday...https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/27/politics/fact-check-coronavirus-briefing/index.html
"Trump said of the coronavirus: 'You can call it a germ, you can call it a flu, you can call it a virus, you know you can call it many different names. I'm not sure anybody even knows what it is.'"
Excuse me? VIRUS is in the word CORONAVIRUS. It's a VIRUS. VIRUS, VIRUS, VIRUS. If Trump doesn't know that the coronavirus is a virus, what does he know?

Here's another contradiction. In your opinion experts and scientific modeling are garbage anyway, so what exactly was de Blasio supposed to act on so much more aggressively?

I see false equivalency too. De Blasio is a bit player on the national stage next to Trump. The mayor of a city, no matter how important, is nothing compared to President of the United States. The federal government has more resources and authority than any city, so what's wrong with expecting more of the President? His office is much higher. Besides, it's not like de Blasio brewed this in his bathtub. By the time NYC confirmed its first case on March 1st, there were 80 in the US (Washington state, Oregon, California, Rhode Island) and two deaths. It was already a national problem.https://www.businessinsider.com/new-york-state-confirms-first-coronavirus-case-2020-3

Everyone was caught flatfooted, and I don't want to blame any one person, not even Trump. I don't expect our President to be an epidemiologist, but if there were a time not to b.s. us every five minutes about his great knowledge, foresight and effectiveness, this is it. Regardless, I know people who are sick, one in the hospital bad enough to need oxygen and two friends of friends who died. We're not talking old people, they were in their 40's or 50's. Lives really are at stake, and isolation and hygiene are our best options.

*Protagoras Paradox*
Over 2000 years ago, in Greece, there was a lawyer named Protagoras. A young student, Euthalos, requested to apprentice under him, but was unable to pay the fees. The student struck a deal saying, “I will pay your fee the day I win my first case in the court”. Teacher agreed. When the training was complete and a few years had elapsed without the student paying up, the teacher decided to sue the student in the court of law.
The teacher thought to himself: ‘If I win the case, as per the law, the student will have to pay me, as the case is about non-payment of dues. And if lose the case, the student will still have to pay me, because he would have won his first case. Either way I will get paid’.
The student’s view was, ‘If I win the case, I won’t have to pay the teacher, as the case is about my non-payment of fees. And if I lose the case, I don’t have to pay him since I wouldn’t have won my first case yet. Either way I will not pay the teacher.’
This is known as Protagoras Paradox, which ever way you look both have equally convincing arguments, one can go either way in supporting the teacher or the student and would not be wrong.
Those of us in medical practice often come across such situations, either in making a diagnostic or therapeutic decision. One physician can recommend a course of treatment based on scientific evidence and another can recommend a diametrically opposite course again based on medical evidence. Right or wrong, but some merit would exist on both sides. Often the physician himself is having an internal struggle to make a decision about the most appropriate course of action, Protagoras & Euthalos are arguing in his mind, to do this or to do that. The horns of dilemma are tearing him apart.

A tweet by Donald Trump, ‘hope the cure is not worse than the disease’.

Some find some merit in this tweet. In our global attempt to flatten the COVID curve, they hope we do not flatten the global economy curve. The question is what’s the best way forward. One group recommends ‘total lockdown’ to break the transmission chain, based on evidence from China, they managed to control the spread of the virus by ruthless lock down and 3 months later they are showing that disease is controlled in Wuhan. On the other hand, the other school of thought is graded isolation & protection of elderly and very young and those with co-morbidities, let it spread amongst the young and healthy, after all the disease ultimately will be controlled when we achieve ‘herd immunity’. The medical community is divided in these two groups. To enforce complete lockdown or Graded isolation?
To complicate the issue the epidemiologists have joined the bandwagon with cacophony of statistical analysis. From Rosy to Dooms day predictions. If we don’t do a complete lockdown then a million people will die in 1 year. No say some more like 90 million will die in 1 year. Whose data analysis is correct. Some suggest do nothing, nature will take over in a few months and all will be well, they quote historical data to justify their recommendations. On whose inputs should we base our disaster management strategy.
Then come the economists with their doomsday predictions. If this continues till May our medical resources will be overwhelmed, Agriculture will suffer, food shortages will occur, production will come to a standstill. There will be an economic crisis of the proportions that world has not seen ever. So, break this lockdown nonsense and let’s get back to work as usual.
What will our political masters do. A guess is they will listen to medical experts, epidemiologists & economists. Then they will decide what course of action will ensure their survival, what will get them people’s votes and they will run with that. At present ‘Lockdown” finds favour with them. Boris in UK has to abandon the recommendations of the medical community about graded response, because the people’s perception became that the Government is not doing enough to protect us citizens. That means revolt against him. So, screw it, lets go with total lockdown if that’s what the people want. Gradually people will get tired of lockdown and demand- let life go on. Then with equally convincing arguments the governments will say the time has now come to lift the blockade, we have controlled the contagion, we have won. Unfortunately, the costs in either case will be huge, both lives and money!
Incidentally the Protagoras Paradox has not be resolved till date. Students in Law school still hold mock trial and give arguments on both sides. With out any resolution of the dispute.

*Protagoras Paradox*, literally one of the most annoying things I’ve read in a long time. The paradox (which isn’t even a paradox, it’s an incomplete argument) cannot be solved without a key bit of information that has been omitted—did Euthalos win a case before Protagoras tried to sue him or not? Once you have that bit of information you have the answer. Until then you can’t even debate it. It’s like thinking you can somehow complete a 500 piece jigsaw puzzle when you know you only have 400 pieces.

Maybe that’s the point... 🤔

Anyway, I’m so burnt out on projects and numbers and data. Not to mention this Indian vs USA pride parade essentially about who’s gonna have more dead people. Who can control the wind? With so many variables, predicting the collateral damage of this pandemic is like trying to predict the weather accurately for a day 6 months from now.

Mr. Xmoji,

You sort of implied you work in the medical field. Here’s the deal. A lot of people are going to die. A lot of people are going to get sick. It’s not going to be fun. We can tally up the fatalities once this epidemic has subsided (if any of us are left standing).

There’s nothing any of us can do about it. Other than pass out boxed lunches and offer what we have to those in need (that was nice). We can also stay home and stop spreading the disease.

Finally, when did India ban international flights into India? How late was India on this measure and which are the countries smarter than India which locked out ALL international flights before India and at an initial / earlier stage of infection spread.

Posted by: An Ordinary Indian | March 27, 2020 at 01:49 PM

March 22 they banned all international flights. Before that they had banned flights from several countries but hadn’t banned flights from the US. Now all flights except certain cargo flights are banned.

Several countries banned all flights and entry prior to India. But, hey, it’s not a competition.

Here’s one link
Plenty more. Figures vary from 40% to 80%. The WHO has also stated that 60% of population will eventually get infected.
Here’s another link specifically about India. Estimate that 300 to 500 million will be infected. 10% would be severe, needing 10 million beds. India has 100,000 beds and 20,000 ventilators.
That’s only 1% of the beds needed so 99% get no medical.
Plenty of other links.

I don’t think any country can avoid huge numbers of deaths because even if you lockdown, eventually the numbers become much higher than the beds available.
The world needed to prepare for this long ago, as bill gates has been warning for many years.

Yes, President Trump wants to ease restrictions in a few weeks. Who doesn't?

This lockdown is akin to holding your breath -- it can't go on indefinitely or life stops. If this world lockdown goes on indefinitely, very soon there won't be any food in the stores, or gas for our cars, or any of the 10,000 other essentials that can only come from a working, co-dependent economy. In time, there won't be civil order. That is a reality every bit as real as the virus' health threat to our bodies.

There is another essential that people need: hope.

POTUS simply offered a vision of hope, a goal that people can look forward to if they adhere to the quarantine. It's disheartening to see it immediately weaponized.

Posted by: j | March 25, 2020 at 06:46 AM

@j

This is a really good point. It’s like if we have a smallpox epidemic but no one goes out to plant and harvest the crops then we’re not only going to die of smallpox but of starvation too. Then again, maybe we’ll get lucky and some ship sailing with a bounty of goods from the East will save us all.

Let’s hope C19 doesn’t last as long as the Great Epidemic of 1616 - 1619. Which tragically took a ruthlessly brutal toll on our Native American (or “Indian”) population. Perhaps this current state of affairs is a bit of karmic “eat glass” for that atrocity.

Estimate that 300 to 500 million will be infected. 10% would be severe, needing 10 million beds. India has 100,000 beds and 20,000 ventilators.
That’s only 1% of the beds needed so 99% get no medical.
Plenty of other links.

The lockdown is good, but India is in a very vulnerable position.

Posted by: Osho Robbins | March 28, 2020 at 10:51 AM

LoL was waiting for you to dig out that 300-500million thingy by that FRAUD Ramanan Laxminarayan who was interviewed by the (sold out) Barkha Dutt.

Ofcourse you wouldn't know the following facts

- he is an economist and not an epidemiologist
- he has been found guilty of IPR theft
- his CDDP falsely used John Hopkins logo in his report
- John Hopkins has officially tweeted the use of its logo is unauthorised and is taking up the issue with CDDP
- the presstitute news channel NDTV has since confirmed that they have taken down this story.

Next time talk only about UK's vulnerability. How prepared is your country and steps being taken by your quarantined PM. We Indians know much better how vulnerable we are. Don't need idiots like that fraud and others throwing numbers and gloom and doom at us. Almost every Indian believes that the Governments (central and states) , the administration, the private sector, NGO's, Religious institutions and anyone else big or small who can contribute in fighting the Covid19, is giving their best shot.

Next time talk only about UK's vulnerability. How prepared is your country and steps being taken by your quarantined PM. We Indians know much better how vulnerable we are. Don't need idiots like that fraud and others throwing numbers and gloom and doom at us. Almost every Indian believes that the Governments (central and states) , the administration, the private sector, NGO's, Religious institutions and anyone else big or small who can contribute in fighting the Covid19, is giving their best shot.

Posted by: An Ordinary Indian | March 28, 2020 at 11:53 AM

Is it a an absolute must to be an ass while proclaiming the virtues of India’s fight against C19? Or is that just a Satsangi thing?

Donald Trump said it would be nice if the CV crisis was all over by Easter. That's 3 weeks. It was a completely irresponsible statement and shows that Trump wants Americans to die to further his political goals.

Modi locked down India for 3 weeks. A total lockdown for 3 weeks is a great idea and what America should be doing.

It's okay to not have a lockdown and to go about one's business and do errands as long as you carry masks and Purell in your vehicle?

"True, on March 3rd Mayor de Blasio was still dismissive of COVID-19, but he came around pretty quickly. He declared a state of emergency in New York City on March 12th."

March 12? WHO declared the outbreak a pandemic on.March 11th.
On the same day, President Trump banned all travel from 26 European countries.
Mayor Bill was only following President Trump's lead. "Quickly"?

"Trump minimized the situation until a press conference on March 16th."

Against strong opposition from SJWs, POTUS banned all travel from China in January.
Then Trump bans all travel from all of Europe, and incredibly bold action.
And yet you claim Trump is guilty of "minimizing" the threat of CV to American citizens, without any evidence. You just state it as if it were a fact, which it's not.

It’s interesting how political this quickly becomes. In an interview Neil DeGrasse Tyson (who I obviously love) said some things are illogical about the dem/rep party lines. It’s illogical that Democrats being more science based also have a larger number of ppl opposed to vaccines than Republicans.

That’s just a random thought. Not trying to prove anything other than sometimes we identify so strongly with our tribe that we stop questioning. That said, I’m an independent.

Is it a an absolute must to be an ass while proclaiming the virtues of India’s fight against C19? Or is that just a Satsangi thing?

Posted by: Sonia | March 28, 2020 at 02:09 PM

The PSB is on display in every word uttered

To bad your governments aren't coming up to your expectations. Also, you are welcome to that satsang thingy called RSSB.. Interacted with just a couple in here, and it's enough to put off anybody. Besides I don't seek God.

I can’t distinguish between not being worried or not caring. I was overwhelmed by all of this, but I’ve passed the event horizon. At this point I have no expectations or delusions of control over this mess. Control is an illusion.

"Against strong opposition from SJWs, POTUS banned all travel from China in January.
Then Trump bans all travel from all of Europe, and [sic] incredibly bold action.
And yet you claim Trump is guilty of 'minimizing' the threat of CV to American citizens, without any evidence. You just state it as if it were a fact, which it's not."

"I thought you'd already acknowledged that there's no evidence Trump ever said or implied that CV was a hoax. Now you're resurrecting that false claim. Go back and write something that's based on fact."

About "hoax." Speaking of Democrats at a campaign rally March 2nd, Trump said, "And this is their new hoax. But you know, we did something that’s been pretty amazing. We’re 15 people [cases of coronavirus infection] in this massive country. And because of the fact that we went early, we went early, we could have had a lot more than that."https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-coronavirus-rally-remark/
He didn't call coronavirus a hoax in itself but that Democrats were hyping it to bring him down, while Republicans were getting the job done--only 15 cases thanks to their heroic early intervention!
Today's U.S. count: 123,750 cases,
2,227 deaths.https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

I can’t distinguish between not being worried or not caring. I was overwhelmed by all of this, but I’ve passed the event horizon. At this point I have no expectations or delusions of control over this mess. Control is an illusion.

Everyone needs an anchor.

Posted by: Sonia | March 28, 2020 at 10:25 PM

Imagine if all the doctors and nurses start saying this? Get a grip on yourself.

Everyone needs an anchor you say. Don't you have one??

The below are extracts from your RSSB literature

I - "The Karmic Law is supreme on the material and the mind planes, and nothing happens of its own accord, spontaneously, so to say. The law governs the planes; therefore, no haphazard happening of events takes place anywhere, whether the events are of microscopic or astronomical dimensions. In peace and in cataclysms or catastrophes, only they suffer who are destined to suffer."

Spiritual Gems. Hazur Maharaj Sawan Singh

Ii - "Old age, health, poverty, richness, sickness, disease, wealth, learning, honour, dishonour and time of death are all pre-ordained while a man is in the womb of his mother. So a wise man never worries or frets or regrets anything.”

Science of the Soul. Maharaj Sardar Bahadur Jagat Singh

III - "Everything is happening as the Lord wants it to happen. Not a leaf can stir without his command. No man can change the course of nature. How then can a few men, howsoever good-intentioned they may be, stem the tide of a torrent which flows in all its fury? It is best to leave these things as they are and let them take their natural course. Saints never interfere in worldly conditions, which are all going on according to the plan of the Creator. They tell us to rise above all this and eventually escape from this world of fury through meditation, while living a normal life and performing all our worldly duties.

Continue with your meditation with love and devotion and do not attach your mind to the happenings in the world by dwelling on them."

There are numerous personal experiences flooding twitter about the failure of online groceries and essentials failing to be delivered to those in need. Businesses don’t want to send their workers out into the streets to deliver because it’s too dangerous.

Definitely should have planned the lockdown a little better. People needed more time to gather enough food for 3 weeks. Poor planning.

If you are lucky enough to be living in a community like Dera or similar please do not defend the very poor planning of the Indian government’s lockdown. I believe the lockdown was a good idea but it wasn’t handled properly and the average Indian will suffer. Not a hardship people at the Dera will experience so really think about that before you reply in Modi’s defense.

Imagine if all the doctors and nurses start saying this? Get a grip on yourself.

Everyone needs an anchor you say. Don't you have one??

The below are extracts from your RSSB literature

I - "The Karmic Law is supreme on the material and the mind planes, and nothing happens of its own accord, spontaneously, so to say. The law governs the planes; therefore, no haphazard happening of events takes place anywhere, whether the events are of microscopic or astronomical dimensions. In peace and in cataclysms or catastrophes, only they suffer who are destined to suffer."

Spiritual Gems. Hazur Maharaj Sawan Singh

Ii - "Old age, health, poverty, richness, sickness, disease, wealth, learning, honour, dishonour and time of death are all pre-ordained while a man is in the womb of his mother. So a wise man never worries or frets or regrets anything.”

Science of the Soul. Maharaj Sardar Bahadur Jagat Singh

III - "Everything is happening as the Lord wants it to happen. Not a leaf can stir without his command. No man can change the course of nature. How then can a few men, howsoever good-intentioned they may be, stem the tide of a torrent which flows in all its fury? It is best to leave these things as they are and let them take their natural course. Saints never interfere in worldly conditions, which are all going on according to the plan of the Creator. They tell us to rise above all this and eventually escape from this world of fury through meditation, while living a normal life and performing all our worldly duties.

Continue with your meditation with love and devotion and do not attach your mind to the happenings in the world by dwelling on them."

Quest for Light, Hazur Maharaj Charan Singh

Posted by: Trevor Smith | March 29, 2020 at 01:45 AM

Based on all three excerpts you’ve shared with me, you haven’t a single thing to worry about. No need to tell me to get a grip because clearly “Everything is happening as the Lord wants it to happen. Not a leaf can stir without his command.”

There are numerous personal experiences flooding twitter about the failure of online groceries and essentials failing to be delivered to those in need. Businesses don’t want to send their workers out into the streets to deliver because it’s too dangerous.

Definitely should have planned the lockdown a little better. People needed more time to gather enough food for 3 weeks. Poor planning.

For your info both Amazon and Flipkart (walmart) operational already. And so are many other e-commerce companies engaged in supply of ESSENTIALS. Ofcourse time lines are stretched. But orders are being executed.

But hey you wouldn't know of the roadside kinara shops in India - which are the suply capillaries through the length and breadth of the country. I get my deliveries - vegetables, fruits, bread, eggs, milk, in my housing complex - through one of these kinara shops/vendors. All so very easily organised by our society's managing committee. Most housing societies are organising similarly. These kinara shops are getting reguiar replenishment of ESSENTIALS. Ordinary Indians resort to the well known India's jugaad and are ready to bear out these difficult times, whilst others can only hit the Twitter to whine and complain.

Ofcourse this is the present situation - India managing the outbreak can have a bearing.

Anyways, You know little about how India is managing it's essential lockdown and handling its biggest associated challenge at the moment - of which you haven't said a word about.

Harsher measures being put in place now - inter-state and even inter-district borders are to be sealed. Migrants are to be quarantined. I just saw it on TV. Not sure if instructions have been issued.

Certain presstitutes also need to be quarantined - who are indulging in fear mongering amongst the uneducated indians and undermining the efforts of the Indian Govt in fighting the outbreak. These are those journalists who are totally sidelined, irrelevant and write in western media for as lowly $500 per article. Ofcourse it has to be an anti- Modi Govt. narrative.

That Swamy fella was right about your irresponsible statement. And like I told @Osho, go advice your country leadership. We Indians don't need stupid advices and comments from ignorant Pommies and Yankies - and in particular about allowing more time to 1.3billion Indians to stock up for 3 weeks. This is the by far the most idiotic statement I have heard about India's lockdown. An average familysize of 4, would mean America's entire population out on the streets SHOPPING AND HOARDING!!!!

Can't also figure out your fetish to think I live in the Dera or similar. Don't you read? I am not a follower of your RSSB and I don't seek God. Most of urban India lives in societies or sectors or gated communities. And villagers remain more connected than their urban counterparts.
And Indians rally to help their countrymen - accross cities, towns and villages. Then neither am I a fan of Modi. My initial posts made it clear. So if you want to rant along baselessly I am not interested in engaging with you.

Based on all three excerpts you’ve shared with me, you haven’t a single thing to worry about. No need to tell me to get a grip because clearly “Everything is happening as the Lord wants it to happen. Not a leaf can stir without his command.”

I am a leaf.

I hope that’s a relief for you.

Posted by: Sonia Taylor | March 29, 2020 at 06:43 AM

Clearly there was a need to tell you. The contents of your posts make it amply clear.

Do I have nothing to worry about - all based on scriptures of a philosophy I am not into? You have no idea about the hand dealt to me for unlike you I don't outburst on blogs.

And good to now hear that I don't need to tell you to get a grip. The scriptures are indeed helpful.

And the best was what your master (GSD) has said...."Such catastrophic events … test us to the extremes of our humanity. They demand that we go to the deepest levels of faith, trust, and generosity of spirit if we are to endure them without losing our balance.”

Surely this applies to us now during the current coronavirus pandemic.

You are right, I have no idea the hand that you have been dealt. Perhaps you feel I shouldn't "outburst" on blog (singular--this is the only blog I comment on) since I'm living such a charmed life (comparatively according to you). You seem to have some sort of antipathy towards me that I don't quite understand. Perhaps it's because I'm an American... and a woman... and outspoken... AND White!!! Gosh, I can't win.

No, you don't need to lecture me. I mean, you can if you want to but it's not going to stop me from being so outspoken. I've always been outspoken. Actually, I'm quite restrained here. If you met me in person, I'm sure you'd hate me.

Indian men seem to think women should be submissive. It's in their DNA. Must be so difficult for you to have to deal with Westerners.

1) You seem to have some sort of antipathy towards me that I don't quite understand. Perhaps it's because I'm an American... and a woman... and outspoken... AND White!!!

2) Gosh, I can't win.

Posted by: Sonia | March 29, 2020 at 11:40 AM

A much welcome source of laughter. Thank you.

1) My wife is American...... Obviously a woman..... Far more outspoken..... and WHITE!!!!!!! She is a typical American WHITE woman.

2) And she has a fair share of wins.

Being presumptuous never pays, then whether it's about me or about my antipathy towards you or reasons for it or about Indian men in general

I may attack opinions, sometimes even behaviours, not individuals. Most are just names in here. Names that don't linger after the first few seconds of logging out of here. So antipathy towards you.....that's far fetched.

I’m not sure why, but it makes me feel better knowing your wife is an outspoken (even more so than myself) American woman and “WHITE”. 😂

She’ll keep you fighting fit as my South African husband always says. And you seem pretty cool so sounds like she’s lucky too.

Thanks for the anybooks app tip. I looked for it but couldn’t find it in the Apple Store. I’ll check for the app link online. However, I had a free credit on Audible so downloaded it to that app and will make some time to listen to it tomorrow.

Yeah, I’m OK with you not being Sikh. LOL

I just like the Sikhs because their typically very spirited and protective. Two qualities I’m really drawn to. I guess that comes with being a warrior nation. Although, in my experience Indians in general are very expressive. Much more so than the average Westerner. That’s a cool thing and it’s more fun.

That is why I was telling this lockdown is just a stunt by this stuntsman. There are reports from sources that Modi did not consult experts in declaring the lockdown.
Posted by: Santosh | March 30, 2020 at 01:16 AM

In a country which has records 400+ deaths daily due to road accidents, the lockdown is still a net life saver.

Next time go beyond the well known presstitutes like NDTV, The Wire, Scroll.in

Clearly a knowledge of their own irrelevance pushes them to print or propagate rubbish.

And ofcourse these presstitutes will not write a word about how political interests override religious vote bank. Specially the Muslim votebank which is actively pursued by the masters of the like of @Santosh.

Here is the latest on Delhi's quarantine cheats - ofcourse has to be muslim congregation helped by the idiot Kejriwal (the Chief Minister of Delhi and Head of one of the opposition political party) - who is also responsible for the migration exodus from Delhi.

Yes I will light a lamp today
Sounds foolish to some
Hilarious for some
When we need food, ventilators
When we need to get out of the lockdown

But yes
Yes I will light a lamp today

Ask a psychologist
And they should agree
Each one in the lockdown feels
When will I be free
Not so easy
What will this lamp do
Make me free?
From suffering or disease
It's a way to realise
I'm not alone in this battle
My countrymen are with me

Ask an HR head
What's team building
Boosting the morale of your team
Applaud the good
Pull up the weak

Ask a defence head
When they lose their soldiers on the field
Some are patients here
Some are healthcare workers
Some are support staff
Are they not my regiment

Yes I will light a lamp today
Not for any leader
Not for any political party
Not for any single person

Yes I will light a lamp today
To pay homage
.. to those who lost their lives
To show solidarity
.. to those in grief
To pray
.. for those who suffer
To support
.. all those who help
To ask the cosmos for a way
. from all those guiding lights

- Not for any leader
- Not for any political party
- to realise I'm not alone in this battle and that my countrymen are with me
- To pay homage to those who lost their lives
- To show solidarity to those in grief
- To pray for those who suffer
- To support all those who help
- Asking the divine - Lead me to light from these moments of darkness

Brian I think you should make this the topic of your next blog post. RSSB Seva reaches 1.2 million needy people everyday in India during covid19 lockdown. The amount of work and money is astonishing. Oh but it’s positive RSSB news and it’s not your style to write anything positive about the organization or the head right?

With all the negative publicity out there for the last 18 months involving GSD, he needs to make sure RSSB, and by association, his name is put in a better light. If they help the needy in the process, that works also. The gurdwaras are also helping to feed the hungry, Brian should maybe write about that also, right?

If you think I'm wrong, check out their website. Every day they provide a link from the newspapers saying how well RSSB is doing in providing the sevadars and the food. Not one mention of the hundreds of articles implicating the spiritual head and his close buddies in alleged corporate fraud. Goes both ways, so you can't say that RSSB is not trying to portray itself in a positive light when it's got a cloud of legal problems, court orders and alleged death threats, and unpaid loans hovering over them.

If you think I'm wrong, check out their website. Every day they provide a link from the newspapers saying how well RSSB is doing in providing the sevadars and the food.

Posted by: Concerned | April 06, 2020 at 10:05 AM

Yours sounds like a fair theory against RSSB. And I feel in contrast, I should add what I think is fair theory for RSSB:

If Radha Soami Satsang Beas has been feeding thousands of people (for FREE) even before the novel covid-19 pandemic way back since the 1930's. Why then doesn't anyone here against RSSB mention those facts, or argue against that?

Perhaps such slander and libel of a good man, moves God to bring such suffering to the world?

Perhaps such slander and libel of a good man, moves God to bring such suffering to the world?

Posted by: Karim W. Rahmaan | April 06, 2020 at 01:27 PM

I agree that RSSB is doing a beautiful job serving those in need. However, I don’t believe God unleashes a pandemic because a guru has been insulted. God/cosmic energy/love doesn’t get insulted—he’s above that. Way above that.

Karim, you are correct, but that doesn't mean that what I wrote is incorrect or not possible. There are restaurants around the world giving away food to the homeless and feeding the nurses and doctors who don't have time to go and get food.

Good things are happening everywhere. Good things can also come from people positioning themselves to be seen as noble and charitable, but we don't know their true intentions, RSSB or any other entity.

"RSSB Seva reaches 1.2 million needy people everyday in India during covid19 lockdown."

Every church near my home is giving away free food, hand sanitizer, clothes etc. and so are many homes in my neighborhood. They just put boxes outside on the corner of the block and let anyone take it. No advertisements, no self congratulating.

You would sort of expect RSSB to give everything away since there's nobody there to eat all the perishable food. The only other choice is to throw it away.