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Author
Topic: Very confused! (Read 18909 times)

Hi there. A while ago i deeply fingured a girl while she was on her period for about 20 mins max. She then gave me oral sex for about half a minute and i had a small sore on the side of my penis. The part that worries me the most is my penis rubbed against her vagina, she was naked but i had my underwear on but they are nylon so not very thick. I hadnt noticed she was on her period untill about 20 mins later when i went to the bathroom and notcied quite a lot of blood on my hands and also on my underwear where i was rubbing against her vagina for a couple of minutes. 2 months later before i knew about hiv symptoms i developd a dotted rash on my back, confimed swollen glands which was apparantly a viral infection, and mouth ulcers (about 5 in a week). My doctor advised against testing saying that hiv was only passed through actual sex and prodominantly anal sex (excuse me spelling) and there was no way i had it. After several visits to him he ordered a blood test to put my mind at rest. I took the blood test at 13 weeks and i believe it was the antibody test combined with p24 and i also had a full blood count as well as many others. All the results came back negative and he went through all my results saying that there was absolutly nothing wrong with me. I should say i dont no if she is hiv+ but she has a history of sleeping around (unprotected) because as she says (i am on the pill and i no everyone i have sex with!) I find it hard understanding that these symptoms all came at once after this event happened, the thing i am most worried about is the rubbing of my penis on her vagina even tho i had my underwear on my penis could of easily slipt out or blood could of got through and of course she was on her period, could you please tell me if its possible for hiv to be caught this way, (Afterall it is penis and vaginal contact!) Isnt that a risk? The oral sex and fingering i am not going to ask about as i no what the answer will be and i dont want to waiste your time! Many thanks,

Thank you for your very quick reply. I just have 1 more question to ask. I understand that the p24 test works from roughly 2 weeks after infection, but i tool it at 13 weeks. My question is would the p24 still test positive if i didnt have detectable antibodies or does it always test negative as soon as antibodies have developed even if they are undetectable? Many thanks,

A p24 test is good until the body begins to make antibodies then the antigen falls to an undectable level and they go off the ELISA test which is the second part of the DUO test. At thirteen weeks you results were found to be negative by the ELISA results.

So are you saying as soon as the p24 falls to undetectable levels, the ELLISA test would be positive? I must ad that this girl has anemia and is on the verge of being diabetic and my doctor told me that as she has regular blood tests they would no indirectly that she has hiv as they would notice an abnormality in the blood and do further testing, can you comment on this? I have read the transmission lesson and i do understand how it is transmitted but my anxiety is getting the better of me and its the symptoms i cannot figure out. Have you ever heard of anyone having confirmed swollen glands and no other symptoms (no sore throat). I think the mouth ulcers i can put down to stress as i was extremly stressed out for 2 weeks. I just cannot figure out the rash it came for a couple of weeks and then just went, and all these symptoms came at the same time, as you can understand that is very scary. I would also like to say i think it is amazing what you do on this site, you all seem very experienced and after months of searching the internet and seeing a lot of rubbish, you are the only website that i trust to get dependable information. Many thanks,

You need to really find another doctor. The only test that will confirm hiv is an HIV test. No other tests will give a result on HIV. Symptoms mean nothing when it come to diagnosing HIV. HIV has no specific symptoms. I myself didn't have any symptoms when I seroconverted. Swollen lymph nodes can be cause by several things the biggest reason is caused by pushing and poking them. You need to go by your 13 week conclusive test. You are conclusively negative. No buts or what ifs, you're negative.

My doctor didnt say they would no if she was hiv+ he said he tests people for anemia and diabetes and the range of tests which are used one of them is a test that is used for hiv (i am not sure which 1) baring this in mind they would see an abnormailty in the blood and investigate it further. So as soon as the p24 test becomes undetectable the ELLISA test would become positive right? Also, none of my symptoms developed untill 2 months after the incident would this mean that the ELLISA is more likely to be negative at 13 weeks or does it not matter when the symptoms develop because i heard that while someone is going through acute hiv they would most probably test negative. But my biggest concern is if the ELLISA would become positive as soon as the p24 is undetectable?

I was poking my glands constantly so it is a bit ironic that they became swollen but saying that the swelling came on fast and painfull and stayed swollen for about a week but the pain went away. Doesnt that say its an infection? Well, my doc said it was a viral inection and it was a complete co-incedents that it happened at that time, could my swollen glands be due to extreeme stress because my immune system was low? I am finding this so hard to understand why i had a rash on my back, swollen glands and mouth ulcers all at the same time 2 months after the incedent. Its just really hard to accept i dont have it. I no symptoms are never a reliable indicator but the fact they were there to be seems very strange. Sorry, forgot to mention slight feevr. Many thanks,

Your doctor cannot tell HIV status on anyone by routine labwork unless he/she routinely does an HIV test on everyone. Not even abnormalities will tell them if that person has HIV--abnormalities can be caused by a whole host of things. The p24 test is a test used for early detection of HIV, it has great specificity but not so great on sensitivity and only good for a short time. The ELISA would confrim the negative p24 test. So your tests are conclusive. The tests say you are negative and your non-risk says you are negative. You are HIV negative. End of story. As for your symptoms, as the other people told you you cannot go by that for HIV as HIV has no specific symptoms. There are such things as having non-HIV related conditions, you know. The other posters have told you why you are HIV negative. You need to move on and accept that fact. If you cannot, then it is time to see a mental health professional.

So theoretically speaking it is possible that the p24 would be undetectable and there wasnt enough antybodies to be detected by the ELLISA, do you think this has ever happended, i just want to make sure that there is no time in between and if i should take another ELLISA just to be 100% sure? The 3-6 month theory really confuses me. Can someone tell me for sure what the truth is, does everyone have a reliable result after 3 months in terms of the detecteal antibodies and apart from people who are IV drug users and having chemotheropy etc..Or can some who have no other illness take longer? Many thanks,

If a person has actually been infected, the p24 antigen is only detectable in the first few weeks after infection has taken place. Around the same time after enough antibodies have been produced to be detected on the tests, the p24 antigen begins to disappear. This is all explained in the Testing Lesson, linked to in the Welcome Thread which you should have read by now.

The six month window period is out of date. The current window period is three months. There is nothing to be confused about. Some websites carry outdated information; we do not.

You are hiv negative and it's hardly surprising that you are hiv negative as you never had a risk to begin with.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

I do understand that you cannot get infected through the things is did with this girl it's just the stress i have been going through with this is unreal and i have never been so obsessed with this in my life. So ann are you saying if someone for some reason did take 6 months to produce enough antibodies the p24 is more likely to be positive for longer than the usuall time? You are really helping me a lot here you obviously no what you are talking about and this really is the only website i feel i can trust. It is also the fact that on the internet you read a lot of stuff and it's very hard to no what the truth is on other websites, so you are filled with false information like it is possible that hiv can get through microscopic wounds around the fingernail! So you can see why i am so stressed out. And then the symptoms of ulcers, swollen glands, and a rash it's all lot to get over. Many thanks for your quick replies.

What I am saying is that people don't take six months to seroconvert and test positive if they have indeed been infected.

The vast majority of people who have actually been infected will seroconvert and test positive by six WEEKS, with the average time to testing positive being only 22 days.

You say you understand that you were not at risk of hiv infection in what you did, yet you want me to understand why you are stressed out? I don't understand why you are stressed out. You didn't have a risk and you tested positive. You do not have hiv.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse and you will continue to avoid hiv infection. Now go stress out about something important like global warming or whether you're on Santa's naughty list or his nice list.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Ann the reason i am stressed out is because it has taken me this long to believe i am actually negative but there is still that 0.1% un-centainty in my mind that i cant get rid off. The question i am really trying to ask is how long does it take from the time that the antibodies have started developing untill they are detectable and am i right in saying that as soon as the p24 becomes undetectable the ELLISA test will be posistve?

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Ann, sorry 1 more question. In the testing lesson is says that less that 1% of people take longer than 1 month or is that people who have other illnesses that are afftecting the antibody development? Many thanks,

That only applies to people who are on chemotherapy for cancer, anti-rejection drugs following organ transplant, or people who have been injecting street drugs every day of every week for years.

What part of "you did not have a risk for hiv infection" don't you understand? All of these questions you're asking are irrelevant. Make sure you always use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse and you won't ever need to worry about hiv window periods or seroconversion.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

I am circumsied and from about the age of 14 i have had some abnormailty on the side of my penis. It seems since i started masturbating it has caused some sort of friction on the side where the palm of my hand is rubbing the penis if you get what i am saying. Anyway, after a while it has caused what seems like another layer of skin, i cant really deecribe it, thats just seems like what it is. Like a bit of the foreskin has come back but only on the side. It can be quite embarrsaing sometimes although no girl had ever said anything to me but im sure they notice. Because of the rubbing it often causes sores around that area and quite often bleeds, in fact there always seems to be some sort of sore around it the whole time. I recieved oral sex off a girl and i no this is not a risk but the fact that this was there seems like it could be some sort of risk. I mean its very hard to describe but it certinlaly has been caused by friction and is just another layer of skin but it does cause damage to the penis and there are sort of wounds that are always there. I realise this is needs to be seen by a doctor and i am going to see one but im just wondering if you can give me any idea of what its and if its a risk as the girl tends to suffer from bleeding gums, although i'm not sure if they were visibally bleeding at the time. Sorry, forgot to mention it! Many thanks,

ok thanks i am going to the doctor about it next week. You no you said saliva inhibits hiv..how is that possible if hiv is present in saliva, even tho the quantity is too low to infect but nether the less it is still there. Is that reason why it is in low ammounts..because the saliva kills it? Also, when you say you have heard of guys fracturing there penis, what do you mean by that? Many thanks for your quick responses,

You didn't have a risk. Even if you DID actually have a risk, you would still be hiv negative. Your symptoms are being caused by something else. There ARE other illnesses in the world beside hiv, you know. Go see your doctor and find out what the problem is. Whatever it is, it isn't hiv because you are reliably hiv negative.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

I do believe i need further educating on hiv is transmitted and i have read the lesson but 1 thing i just cant understand is why actuall sex can transmit it and why say for instance fingering cant. I understand hiv needs a warm enviroment to survive and once the penis is inside the anus or the vagina it can be transmited through tiny cuts on the penis. So, when you are fingering someone many people have little cuts on the fingers. What is the difference? I also no that the cells that hiv need to reproduce are under the foreskin but people have become infected by being poked with a needlestick in the thumb and the hand! Yes, i no that it is unlikely to happen but surely if:A. A women is menastrating B. You have a cut on your hand even if it is very small, but is bleedingThat is a risk?!I dont no why i just find it very hard to believe that blood coming inyto contact with skin (that is very broken around fingernails) for a good 15 minutes and inside a vagina can't transmit hiv. I am sorry for all the questions i just feel the more i no about it the more i can accept i am negative. Many thanks,

Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.

i am aware that all you can do is tell me the facts however i am just trying to get more information on fingering which i cant get anywhere else. All i am trying to find out is how getting blood on a small cut or a sore around the fingernail in a warm envrimonet like (the vagina) cannot transmit hiv, it just really puzzles me. Is it a theoretical possiblity or is it actually no risk what so ever even if there is a tiny cut and the girl has her period at the time. What is scaring me is on a few websites i have seen that finernails often have invisible wounds around the edges, and there is 1 proven case where a doctor got infected from coming into contact with infected blood and did not wash her hands? thanks,

Actually, i don't want to waiste your time anymore and i really dont want to be banned from this forum i am sorry. I just have 1 thing i want to ask you that will convinve me 100% that i do not have hiv and will make me forget the risks and symptoms etc. If someone was to come on this forum and say to you they had unprotected anal sex with someone who was hiv+ and then 2 months later came down with symptoms and had a negative DUO test at 13 weeks would you advise on further testing. I assure you this will be the last question and will honestly make me believe i am hiv negative. As i said it isnt the risk that i was particualy concerned about it was the symptoms, even tho the symptoms are not a reliable indicator i seemed to have all the symptoms that people with hiv have claimed to have. But anyway would really appreciate if you could just answer this question. Thanks a lot.

If someone was to come on this forum and say to you they had unprotected anal sex with someone who was hiv+ and then 2 months later came down with symptoms and had a negative DUO test at 13 weeks would you advise on further testing.

very,

NO, I would not recommend further testing in this situation. Three months is conclusive, no matter what the risk.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

my step-brother had unprotected vaginal sex with a girl who claims to be negative but as far as he no's she has never been tested. It is now 2 months and 1 week after it happened and he has tonsilitus. He is thinking of getting an hiv test but doesnt no if he should wait untill his symptoms have stopped? My step brother is a lot younger and i believe he is over reacting because i think it was the first time for both of them, but im not 100%. I think my worrying about what i thought was an exposure for me has triggered his worry. He does get tonsilitus about once a year so is not un-common but still..a risk is a risk. Can you please tell me if it is ok for him to get tested now and at the 3 month mark or should he wait a bit longer as his "symptoms" came about very late? Many thanks,

No one should chase symptoms when it comes to HIV. The only thing that can be done is to get an HIV test. I do realize to some people when they've put themselves at risk, that suddenly a routine case of tonsilitis suddenly becomes blown out of proportion to "OMG what if this means I have HIV?" He should test at 3 months, since he did have unprotected sex. No one should ever assume the status of HIV about anyone. Unless you get tested with them together and really intimately know their history and both of you are monogamous with each other, always protect yourself as if that person has HIV and other STIs. He should also get a full STI panel done because she could have another STI--the other ones are all much easier to get than HIV. He could get tested now, but the 3 month test would be conclusive. It is more fruitful to wait until then instead of paying for 2 separate tests.

ok, thank you very much. I now see what you mean when you say symptoms are never a reliable indicator, as i learnt myself. I will inform him to get tested at 3 months. If he was to get tested now tho and it was negative would that be 99% sure that he wasnt infected or will it mean nothing untill the 3 month mark? Mny thanks,

The official figure at a definitive HIV test result is 3 months. He was possibly exposed 2 months 1 week ago. I do know that the majority of people that truely are positive will be positive by about 6 weeks and I do not know of any statistics of people that would change from negative to positive within 3 weeks. I think if he tested now, he would have a good idea what the result is, but just to make it definitive, that is why I would say 3 months. It is his choice whether to test both time, but considering it is only about 3 more weeks, it isn't that long to wait.

So what about symptoms tho..am i right in saying that the timing of the symptoms is irrelivant as long as you take the test at 13 weeks? Because i don't no if there is any truth in this but i heard during acute hiv a person is quite likely to test negative regardless of if you are infected. I took a DUO test at 13 week,s is this advisable for my step brother?

Again: yes testing at 13 weeks is what shoudl be done. And again, symptoms are irrelevant--the only thing that matters is the test. Those that test negative are the ones who test too soon, ie if you were recently infected it might not show up, hence the 13 week test. that is definitive. HIV has no specific symptoms anyway--there are some that can be associated with it, yes, but they are definitely not specific and can fit a whole host of illnesses. It is not like a cold--you cannot tell by symptoms. In fact, often there are no symptoms. So to reiterate once again, your brother should be tested. Unlike you he actually has put himself at risk by having unprotected sex--he needs to test 13 weeks post exposure.

I wonder if you can help me. My doctor is refering me to a counciller but he is not back untill after the new year. I no i have had a 13th week negative test and you consider that conclusive but i have a couple of things i would like to say and ask. I mentioned in another post that i have an abnormailty on the side of my penis where what seems like another layer of skin has former. It was surely caused by masturbating (this is very embarrasing even to wirte on a forum but i used to wrap toilet paper around my penis to keep my hands clean if you no what i mean) anyway, was very stupid and that is what ultimatly has casued this layer of skin to form. It is in the same place as where my foreskin would be if i had one. It doesnt get any bigger or any smaller but what it does do is cause wounds and bleeding when i masturbate or when with a partner and we are participating in sexual activites. These wounds over the years have actually turned into little holes which you can see if you pull the skin out. I dont mean holes going into the penis i mean going straight through sort of like a peirecing, (all sounds very strange i no). Anyway i havnt seen a doctor about it after all these years but now after this "incident" it is starting to concern me because although i didnt see any visible bleeding on my penis i no there was surely a good few sores around the area which was caused from her masturbating me. So the fact that i received oral sex off her for about a couple of minutes and she "occasionally" suffers from bleeding gums does make me a little suspicious. I no that it has never happened from receiving oral sex but im thinking this could possible be an exception due to the circumstances. My question is:

a. If we just forget for a minute that i have been tested and she did have bleeding gums at the time would there be a "theoretical possiblity and would that possiblity depend on how sever the oral sex was because it was very light and more like licking then actual sucking (sorry for the details!)

b. Have you ever heard of anything like this on a penis. I find it very hard to describe, but if you could just imagine a normal penis but on the side where the forskin has been removed wrapping round it is another layer of skin, it is complety painless apart from when i masturbate and causes sore, and very occasinally actual bleeding. I do realsie you are not doctors but i just thought you might have some idea.

c. Even tho a 13th week test is considered conclusive say for example someone was to experience any sort of symptoms as 8 weeks lasted untill 11 weeks and a DUO test was taken at 13 weeks would that still be accurate. Why have i heard that someone who is experiencing acute hiv would most likely test negative at that time? It is something that is really bothering me and i am finding it extreemly difficult to get on with my life. It's lik everytime i think i can carry on i here something different, for instance my friend who recently got tested was told that 3 months is 99% certain but you should re-test at 6 months to be 100%!! Why do some people still say this if the officail window period is 3 months? Thank you very much for taking the time to read this, much appreciated.

You have conclusively tested negative over a no risk event. Regardless of your masturbatory problems with your penis, you were not at risk for hiv from a blowjob.

Please re-read the Welcome thread and take note of the forum posting guidelines found there. You will notice that we give time outs to people who insist on continually posting about a no risk and/or conclusive negative results. Please consider yourself warned.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

VERY SORRY ABOUT STARTING A NEW THREAD! Hi, i hope you remember me, you gave me a timeout for a while and here i am again still worrying!I feel like nobody actually understands me and i also feel like a am worrying for a reason. I have never felt like this ever and it is really getting to me. Im not gonna go into the symptoms that i have expericenced (although i do have to ask if a dotted rash on the back of the hands could be a symptom?) Anyway, i forgot to mention to you that as well as the ELISA and p24 test that i did at 13 weeks i also had a white blood cell count. The doctor said that my wbc in his words was (boringly normal). He said that if that was acute hiv i was experiencing it would be different. The thing that shocked me was when he said that people who have high risk exposures such as un-protected anal with someone known to be hiv+ and people who prick themelves with needles test out to 6 months. I no that my exposure (receiving oral and fingering whilst girl was on her period) in your view is no risk, but i went to see a different doctor and he told me it was an extremely low risk which confuses me. The first doctor that i went to which is my usual doctor told me that actual sex is required and receiving oral is purely a theoretical risk. I feel like everytime i think i am getting somewhere with this there is always something pulling me back. I have also red in your poz forums of 1 person taking longer than 3 months to produce antibodies and another person on there that expericned acute hiv for 10 months! Is this possible? I am sorry for the long message, the bottom line is my doctor said i should go and get another test at the 6 months mark just to put my mind at rest but he did say he defiantly does not reccomend it..im just so confused. Luckily, he is a very good doctor and he himself does hiv testing. So why do they test people at 6 months. He told me 3 months is 99.999% sure at 6 months is 110% sure. The fact is i no realisticly any sexual activity cannot be 100% safe and the fact that i had an abrasion on my penis at the time kind of makes me put 2 and 2 together. One more thing..im very sory about this, i dont want to keep waisting your time so i thought i would put it in one message and leave you alone because im sure you are sick of people like me. Anyway i had a throat infection one month after but it was a different kind. There was NO pain when swollowng and it just felt like an irritaiton in my throat. A few weeks before that however i had a chest infection. Do you think it is likely that it could be connected in some way? I no hiv has no specific symptoms but generally what kind of a sore throat do people tend to expericene with acute hiv..i heard it was pain when swollowing is this true? I have had all my symptoms answered for apart from this one so it would really help if you could give me some info. Many thanks for reading, this site gave me confidence to get tested in the first place and i am just looking for a bit more. Many thanks.

I am simply trying to get some more info about why my doc said that to me. I promise you if you just answer these questions i will not post any further and you can ban me although i would not like to be banned since you have been very helpful.

What kind of a bad throat is GENERALY seen with acute hiv.And why do people with high risk exposures test out to 6 months.

I am getting tested next month but answering these questions will help ease my anxiety until i get it.

I am a genuienly worried person, and have been for the last 5 months of my life. Some people like youselves say receiving oral sex and hand to blood contact is no risk and some people say extreemly low. Some people say testing at 3 months is 100% and some people say 6 months. Do you see what i am getting at. I am not a stupid person and i am normally quite a realistic person. I am not here for emotional support..if i have it i have it and if i dont i dont. BUT I NEED TO NO. First my doc said its 100% then he says 6 months is 100%. How can you say receiving oral sex is NO risk when really no sexual activity is no risk. You say that there has been a handful of cases reported through GIVING oral sex and yet there is someone on this forum who claims to have got it through that. I am not for 1 second dispusting anything you say but i am just trying to get a greater understanding. It is a fact that people with high risk exposures get tested at 6 months. The docs are saying to me that i wasnt at high risk but surely a risk is a risk regardless. I cannot seem to get any real info from anyone which i why i came back here. I admire the work you do here it is truely amazing. I do not want to get blocked i just wish to have my questions answered and then i shall leave..Many thanks.