No **** sherlock. All three were examples of crimes where the actor was guilty of something (a murder, a sex offense and a robbery were the examples I used).

In example #2, yes, in some states, that would probably constitute a rape. In others, a lesser offense, but a sex offense nonetheless. 20 year old Johnny-hot-and-bothered took advantage of an underage girl. Yes, he was wrong in that scenario. Very wrong, and he's a complete scumbag. But, to my point, the 15 year old girl was wrong too. And she put herself in that position. So, not much of a rape victim when you lead a guy on, get yourself drunk and invite him over with intentions of having sex. If she was 17 in my scenario, this situation is different. Instead of it being a crime, it would simply be morally wrong. The only thing making this a crime is her age.

But I wasn't talking about the offense. I was talking about the "victims" of those crimes. There are legitimate victims and then there's people like Aldon Smith, who put themselves in the positions they find themselves. Technically, in the absolute most technical sense of the word, yes, Aldon Smith could be a victim of an attempted assault. But should we act like Aldon Smith is Mr. Innocent victim who was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time, victimized by a ruthless criminal who wanted to seriously injure him?

That was my point. Context ... I was referring to a post that said, "what did Smith do besides be a victim of violence?" Clearly he's not just a victim of violence. He brought this stabbing upon himself. By having the type of people at his house that he did. And then getting into the middle of a fight with those types of people.

I wouldn't say he's a victim until I find out what happened. And that might not happen.

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No, pretty sure in every state that's full blown rape. It doesn't matter if she was stupid to drink and be horny, but there comes a point where she can no longer consent to engaging in sexual encounters, much less to a 20 year old as a 15 year old. That's also statutory rape.

No, pretty sure in every state that's full blown rape. It doesn't matter if she was stupid to drink and be horny, but there comes a point where she can no longer consent to engaging in sexual encounters, much less to a 20 year old as a 15 year old. That's also statutory rape.

No, pretty sure in every state that's full blown rape. It doesn't matter if she was stupid to drink and be horny, but there comes a point where she can no longer consent to engaging in sexual encounters, much less to a 20 year old as a 15 year old. That's also statutory rape.

And if somebody is dumb enough to record it on their phone and take it to a buddies house, it's considered "The Use of Children in the Production and Distribution of Sexually Explicit Material," no matter how old you are. I knew an idiot scumbag who wound up with 5-20 for doing that (and that was a pretty sweet plea compared to the 45+ years that he was initially looking at).

i don't want to torpedo this rape train, but i'm pretty sure he Banger wasn't intending it to turn into a discussion about the legality of his examples. he was just saying that, even though it is legally a rape, it isn't like 15-year old chick didn't put herself in that situation.

although that 20-year old is still a no-game-having-scumbag no matter where he is for even resorting to that.

i don't want to torpedo this rape train, but i'm pretty sure he Banger wasn't intending it to turn into a discussion about the legality of his examples. he was just saying that, even though it is legally a rape, it isn't like 15-year old chick didn't put herself in that situation.

although that 20-year old is still a no-game-having-scumbag no matter where he is for even resorting to that.

i never did say that she (the girl that Banger made up to illustrate his point) wasn't a victim. i was just trying to clarify the point he was trying to make. i'm not even sure if my assumption was right, but whether or not the hoe was a victim or not is so ridiculously not related to Aldon Smith it shouldn't matter whether i said it was her fault or not.

edit// OH, so Aldon Smith put himself in the situation but was also the victim of a stabbing. i get it, but i can't remember if anyone was arguing that he wasn't a victim of a stabbing, just that they didn't sympathize with him because of his poor decision-making.

for the record, i don't care either way. it sucks that the guy got stabbed, but i've been to parties where the same thing has happened. when you throw a house party and a large number of people show up you just have to roll with the punches. it gets to a point where you lose control of the whole thing and you just have to try to have a good time.

OH, so Aldon Smith put himself in the situation but was also the victim of a stabbing. i get it, but i can't remember if anyone was arguing that he wasn't a victim of a stabbing,

Precisely my point. I believe Smith made many poor choices that lead to this result. But I believe he is still a victim of violent crime.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBanger

Aldon a victim?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBanger

That's not a victim.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBanger

Aldon is at fault.

I counsel violent teenagers as my profession. I'm very aware of the many dynamics of violence and victimology. Victims awareness curriculum focuses on behaviors that increase the likelihood of victimization. Aldon Smith clearly exhibited behaviors that increase the likelihood of violent results. That was never my point.

No, pretty sure in every state that's full blown rape. It doesn't matter if she was stupid to drink and be horny, but there comes a point where she can no longer consent to engaging in sexual encounters, much less to a 20 year old as a 15 year old. That's also statutory rape.

Well, no. Not every state. In New York State (It's the law I know best), this hypothetical scenario would be classified as "sexual misconduct". Not a rape. According to New York State it is just as bad as to have sex with an animal or dead human body (also sexual misconduct) than the scenario I illustrated. But that's a whole different story.

I will illustrate and crack open the law book.

Quote:

S 130.20 Sexual misconduct. A person is guilty of sexual misconduct when: 1. He or she engages in sexual intercourse with another person without
such person`s consent; or
2. He or she engages in oral sexual conduct or anal sexual conduct
with another person without such person's consent; or
3. He or she engages in sexual conduct with an animal or a dead human
body.
Sexual misconduct is a class A misdemeanor.

She is under 17 years old, so she cannot give consent. See highlighted section. This scenario applies (Actor 20 years old, victim 15 years old).

New York State has (3) degrees of rape (rape 1st, rape 2nd and rape 3rd).

In order for it to have been Rape in the 3rd degree, by New York State law, the little shitbag would have needed to be over 21 years of age. For Rape 2nd, the girl would have needed to be under 15 years old and the scumbag over the age of 18.

Quote:

S 130.25 Rape in the third degree. A person is guilty of rape in the third degree when:
1. He or she engages in sexual intercourse with another person who is
incapable of consent by reason of some factor other than being less than
seventeen years old; 2. Being twenty-one years old or more, he or she engages in sexual
intercourse with another person less than seventeen years old; or
3. He or she engages in sexual intercourse with another person without
such person`s consent where such lack of consent is by reason of some
factor other than incapacity to consent.
Rape in the third degree is a class E felony.

Our perp is 20 years old. Not quite old enough for rape 3rd.

Quote:

S 130.30 Rape in the second degree. A person is guilty of rape in the second degree when: 1. being eighteen years old or more, he or she engages in sexual
intercourse with another person less than fifteen years old; or
2. he or she engages in sexual intercourse with another person who is
incapable of consent by reason of being mentally disabled or mentally
incapacitated.
It shall be an affirmative defense to the crime of rape in the second
degree as defined in subdivision one of this section that the defendant
was less than four years older than the victim at the time of the act.
Rape in the second degree is a class D felony.

Our "victim" is 15 years old. Not quite young enough.

Minga... was all that besides the point. That post was just a couple of examples of how people put themselves in bad / terrible / life-threatening situtations on their accord. And how they aren't "just victims." Sometimes victims are to blame just as much as the wrongdoers. That was the only point I was trying to make. That Aldon Smith deserves blame for what happened. Is he the only one in the wrong? Certainly not. There were people at his party who did things even worse than what he did (much worse), but it shouldn't excuse him from shouldering any of the blame.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac

I counsel violent teenagers as my profession. I'm very aware of the many dynamics of violence and victimology. Victims awareness curriculum focuses on behaviors that increase the likelihood of victimization. Aldon Smith clearly exhibited behaviors that increase the likelihood of violent results. That was never my point.

I was responding your post that said something along the lines of, "What did Aldon Smith do besides be a victim?" I simply pointed out that he did a lot more than just be a victim at a pool party. I gave examples (which I wish I never did, because it shows just how much people can't / don't read). I gave a couple examples of how people do more than just be a victim (putting themselves directly in harms way, which Aldon did) and a third example of a legitimate victim. Some people are victims and some people have it (whatever that may be) coming.

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Originally Posted by Scott Wright

I honestly believe Reggie Bush has turned into exactly the type of player I envisioned.

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Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage

I would like it if there were more successful black Quarterbacks in the NFL...

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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

iamcandian lives in a cabin in the Yukon Territory and writes letters to railroad barons about the price of hard tack.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorsBullsFan

I could possibly see Matthew Stafford Dropping out of the 1st round

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoRavens

Tahj Boyd has the best fundamentals of any QB in this class, I think his game translates great to the NFL.