I am putting together a small business plan/proposal and was wanting to get some feed back on some shop tools that are need for such an endeavor. I have been looking at machines by Laguna, Hammer/Felder, Mini Max, and Rojek among others and was wanting to get any feedback for how the brands hold up in small production shops. I was considering a few different things such as a Silding Table Saw, Saw/Shaper, 16” Jointer/Planer, Band Saw and 5 Tool Combo Machines and wanted to know any pros/cons I may not have considered. Any feedback would be appreciated. I know it’s a rather vague request but funds are limited and I may only be able to make the proposal once.

26 replies so far

Don’t buy the combo machines for a real business unless you absolutelyneed the space.

If your business fails you’ll be crushed by the debt of investing in vanity machines. I’m serious. Felder’s core market in N. America is affluent hobbiests like doctors. Not tradesmen.

I’m not saying they don’t make good stuff, btw. They do – but if you’venever used a slider you don’t know what you’re getting into and you certainly won’t know if a vertical saw or CNC is a better investment.

When and if you start making good money, upgrade to the fancy tools.

The WoodWeb guys, advising a guy who wanted to start a cabinet businesswith 2 buddies wrote, when the guy asked about tools to get:

“regarding tools and machinery, if you have to ask, you have no idea what you’re getting into”.

The used machinery auctions are in fact full of glorious machinery being sold by people who started woodworking businesses with exactly no ideawhat they were in for.

Without knowing the scope of work you have clients asking you to dothere’s no way to advise you sensibly on machinery.

I say get the jobs first and then upgrade machinery as needed. It shouldgo without saying that securing profitable jobs and having the skills to complete them are far more critical to success in the business than having a shop full of high-tech machines.

i AGREE WITH LOREN COMPLETELY the biggest mistake people make when going from hoobyist to pro is they learn the hard way that hobbyist buy tools cause they want them pros buy them because they cannot do it with out them and the work load justifies the expense. If cabints is what your wanting to get into a table saw drill router pocket screw sander sprayer and a lot of jigs will build everything you can imagine as you get busier a jointer and planer nail guns and some door making bits ( you can always order doors most shops do) the big tools are nice but not needed

It all depends on what type of work your going to do. For sheet goods and straight line ripping and every thing else you would do on a tablesaw a good panel saw will do. highly suggest a scoring blade.

wide belt sander. I have a 37” sander and I wouldn’t want it any smaller. HUGE time saver.

Shapers and…..hold on…I’m getting carried away. You can have 100,000 in your business, not sure I would want that type of overhead starting out. Overhead is usually what does a business in. I started with your basic hobby equipment and have been upgrading ever since. If I have a good year I get nice stuff, If its a bad year… maybe a new pencil sharpener.

Just to clarify, I was referring to Guitar Speaker Cabinets rather than home cabinets so there is no confusion. I worked as a trainer for the largest buyer in the music industry for some time and am well aware of what small company’s market-shares can be. One of the bigest pitfalls for small music companies is their lack of ability to produce when big buyers come shopping.My main concerns are over what people have found to be necessary start-up machines and what brands are worth it or not. I am trying to keep startup costs low and am trying to get beyond the college wood shop at over $1200 per semester. My father in law is investing in this endeavor and I am not wanting to overinflate or unestimate the feasible startup costs. My aim is for a fully function 1 man shop at under $7500 or worst case $10000. I do not want to sacrifice quality so a track saw and router table will not cut it because it would not be worth my time at such a slow pace.

I would like to help out, but I need some clarification. Production shop? In my mind a production shop has several employees at least. My neighbor works at production shop – seven tables saws – 16” jointers etc. – where you have plan your cuts and schedule time on the machines so things keep moving. If you mean a professional specialty shop where your it with maybe a helper that’s a different animal. So clarify this for me and I can offer advice for what its worth. It would also be useful to know how large the stuff your planning on making will be – particularly how wide the panels will be and if you will be using plywood or solids for the most part.

That post of Lorens got me thinking. The only people that I know that own Felders are doctors! I happen to be a physician myself, just not one of the affluent variety:) I’m more of a used JET kind of doctor:) I had never noticed that phenomenon before but in the cases I’m aware of, these purchases were definitely “vanity” purchases. Laguna has it’s own issues which are easily found here. MiniMax may be unique in the crowd that you list, as I’m aware of some hard-working MiniMaxs in production shops. Best of luck to you!

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

^this was very informative and I thank you Cr1. I have to revise my comment about Felder and I certainly hope it didn’t offend any owners. I would love to have one of these impressive machines but I could never justify the expense as a hobbiest. These comments above should be very helpful to the original poster.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

How are you going to cut the holes? You can do it with jig sawsof course, but that’s slow. You might want to get an Onsrudinverted router or a big overarm router for cutting and drillingall those holes. CNC is another way to do it. Onsrud claims theirmachine is faster than CNC I think.

You may need air clamping gear to hold down templates.

Oh – you might want to buy a case clamp too. That’s a spend, andnot as much fun as a fancy tool, but it would be a smarter investment for making speaker cabinets than a Format saw I bet.

If you’re really doing it right you’ll get doweling equipment so you cansquirt the glue in the holes, pop the dowels in, stick the cabs in thecase clamp, shut it, let the glue set while you get the next one ready, then open the clamp and on to the next one. Unglamorous woodworking but hella fast. The dowels mostly hold without glue actually so the glue just has to grab and then you can take the clamp off.

Some guys do the dowels, load the clamp then nail/staple the corners while the case is in the clamp. That’s real fast and high-quality except for the little nail holes.

Small-shop guys bitch and moan about dowels, mostly because theydon’t have the machinery to do them right, but dowels are the way togo if you’re doing this sort of manufacturing to a better quality standard.

Lots of speaker cabinets are glued and stapled. Staples and glue maybe all your customers are willing to pay for.

A plain old regular cabinet saw with a big fence will do for this. Getthe Format saw if you must, but your employees may mess it up. Youmight want a power feeder to increase consistency from part to part. It saves sweat, but increases accuracy in ripping too.

If doing dado joints, get a second cabinet saw and leave it set up.

You gonna do the tolex in house or not?

If so, you’ll want a spray gun setup for spraying the glue.

You’ll be dealing with heavy stacks of materials. A panel loader for thetable saw might be a good investment. A forklift maybe as well.

You’ll need staplers and an air compressor. Laminate trimmers. It’spossible you’ll find a flush lipping planer useful. It definitely will be ifyou take jobs making consoles for recording or film editing studios.

mcase - It will be more of a professional specialty shop since my only co workers will be my 4 sons when they get old enough. Right now I have only one helper when needed. So yes any feed back would be appreciated. Also I love the bed in your projects.

cr1 - That is a great wealth of info and helped very much, thanks!

Lee - I would love to see some of your work. I have not constructed a bass yet only solid body electric guitars up to this point but if time and money allows I will be taking a class in Acoustic Guitar Construction.

Loren - You seem to know what you’re talking about when it comes to my neck of things. Totally great feedback!• Ideally, since I work with 5’ x 5’ 3/4” Baltic Birch Panels for covered cabinets, I believe a Sliding Table would be the best investment for processing those goods as opposed to using a Cabinet Saw and Circular Saw. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong but Sliders can do all the same functions as a cabinet saw and then some. • I cut my holes with a dedicated router with a circle jig affixed to the base. Again Ideally I would work off a Pin Router or CNC machine but for cost sake those things will probably come in a later phase of the business.• Now a Case Clamp & Wood Welder are two things I have not heard of yet, what brands make them? (Now I hope that does not make me regret spending $500 on an Akeda Dovetail Jig and another $500 on and Jet, Jorgensen, and Woodpercker Clamps.) • My finger jointed birch cabinets will use a covering and yes this will be handled in house. This may be the only area I hire another employee for since it is more of it’s own thing and can be rather time consuming.• The forklift is covered.• Brad Nailer, Stapler, and Compressor are a must I am just not sure what brand to go with and if I should go with a combo unit or not. • Laminate trimmer in the form of a dedicated router with flush trim bit is covered since I messed up a case trying to do it with a router and fence with a straight bit. (I was just being inpatient and trying to save money.)• I will be working with hard woods for guitar bodies (13” to 15” wide) and bespoke speaker enclosures (10” to 14” deep), which is mostly what I have done up to this point and why I am tired of paying $1200 a semester for something that may be able to be had in a combo machine. My only concern about these units is that they are blade fed and I don’t want that affecting some of the AAA plus tops I put through them.

Bertha – I really feel that a Drum Sander would be overkill at this time and 1/32nd at a time is too little of a bite when you need to mill your own stock. I really wish that wasn’t the case since I have this old 50s Powermatic Model 50 6” Jointer that is inspiring to look at but just not that practical for the size of pieces that I am working with. The combo just seems the way to to since I don’t have any hand planes to handle 1 piece guitar bodies. Thanks!

I see your point. I think the combo machines vary greatly in quality. I almost bought the smaller JET combo machine myself but the reviews were simply too mixed to inspire confidence. Ooooh, that PM50 is certainly eye candy. It’s been on my want list for a long time now. I’m really envious of this exciting time you’re enjoying and I really wish you the best.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog