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I don't think there is any denying that, up to this point, VY has been a turd. From his temper tantrums to hiding out after a game sending some suicide signals, etc. he has been immature. He wouldn't take things seriously enough, wouldn't put in the time learning, etc. But _IF_ he has grown up since then, he could be pretty good. At least he has an upside. ALL the players Pgh is signing have zero upside. It's pathetic.

He would be worth bringing in but would keep my expectations low. I agree he is talented.

Ryan Leaf? You want to make a potential 3rd round pick out to be comparable to the biggest bust of all time? Bray would be going to a good locker room and a good offense to grow in. If he ever wanted a legit shot in the league as a starter theres no better place to either make a name for himself as a starter somewhere else by backing up an oft injured QB ala schaub or even staying around and taking the job himself down the road ala rodgers

Its an investment worth making, like ive said over and over...the last 2 season could have been different if they had a better backup and one they could trust

I agree about the last two season and been saying it as well. That's why I wouldn't be too upset if they took Bray in the 2nd.

I know he had a very good win record in the NFL but think a lot of that was before teams figured him out. He was a big run threat and defense coordinators worried about that early on. He was great at Texas because of that. As for him getting more football smart, I'm not so sure about that and think I remember he scored like a 6 on the Wonderlic. That said with all the bums we signed lately what the heck might as well give him a shot.

They said he got a 6 on the Wonderlic but for some reason, that wasn't legit and he re-took it and got a 16 - the same score as Marino. Not sure what the truth was on that, but it's safe to say he isn't a genius. Even a 16 is pretty low. I used to work for a company that relied heavily on Wonderlic scores, but, to be honest, working in a white collar business vs. playing football is not apples to apples, but I DO think a Wonderlic score can be SOMEWHAT meaningful if it's way low for a QB.

Also, with the football IQ thing, IF he has matured and is willing to work harder, it would make his ability to read Ds better to some degree. With repetition comes a better awareness. It's PART of the puzzle.

All that being said, I do believe - as you say - that his rushing threat made him more likely to win, as he did use that skill at TX to win games. He is almost 30 and will have to win rushing much less. If he gets boiled down to having to win throwing out of the pocket, he may really be below average once you minimize his rushing threat. What kind of upside does he have left? Not a tremendous amount, but higher than the ham and eggers Pgh has been signing left and right. Gradkowski is what he is - he isn't going to get better all of a sudden. Same as Foote, Gay, Sylvester, et al.

I like Leinhart a lot back then and think it was more his poor work ethic why he didn't turn out to be good.

Lienart was infamous for caring about Playboy parties than he was interested in working at his craft. I believe the proof is in the pudding. So many of these QBs think they are so super special that they don't have to put the work in. Look at the very best QBs in the world - they put the work in. You don't think that Peyton Manning, Brady, Brees don't work OT in learning every possible trend/scheme they can? These fools like Lienart think they don't need to put the work in, and they quickly find themselves as back ups. Sanchez is also known for being a screw up and not taking things very seriously. He may be working harder now, but it may be too late. I don't see him as a starter ever again, unless the starter gets hurt on whatever team he ends up with.