you say these things because she was nothing to. just some article you read about. You are just some person out in cyberspace spouting nonsense because you have nothing better to do with your time. Why don't you go build yourself an art car and drive it off a cliff.

I am really still trying to figure out why her name was dragged into this topic in the first place. my wife and I are the only ones stepping up to defend her because she is not here to do it herself. It seems to me that a few people that have posted on this thread see where I'm coming from. I don't see any of her so called burning man friends chiming in here and speaking up for her. It seems to me that all you burning man people want to do is defend and protect the future of your event. Are you scared that this might put an end to your little party out in the desert ,excuse me the "playa"

I bet if it was your mama that died you would still be crying like a little bitch.....

you say these things because she was nothing to. just some article you read about. You are just some person out in cyberspace spouting nonsense because you have nothing better to do with your time. Why don't you go build yourself an art car and drive it off a cliff.

I am really still trying to figure out why her name was dragged into this topic in the first place. my wife and I are the only ones stepping up to defend her because she is not here to do it herself

I bet if it was your mama that died you would still be crying like a little bitch.....

Get over it...she died, she is dead, she is gone. Quit being an asshole and get off this site.

She didnt deserve to die...but she did. I had friends die at Burning Man as well. Whatever, they are dead. Im not dwelling on the past.

Norcal & his alleged wife memoryofkathy, are obviously TROLLS!
First, go back & read the whole thread, Know one said anything negative or hurt full about Kathy! Just the legal system & her families motive of greed (and that for the most part was in question form to everyone trying to understanding of the legal process)
In the contexts of memoryofK's flame, she sold her "friend the ticket!" she should be riddled with guilt IMOP and under subpoena her self by the stander of wich your tossing blame around!
Norcals flames over burners being drunks & druggies, did he & his wife have tickets? Have they burned before? Was this some event they or she didn't understand? bought a ticket, read the back, got scared & suckered her alleged friend into buying the ticket & going to the event?

OK, Norcal/friendofkathy for the most part everyone on this thread tried to be sympathetic, concerned & reasonable but you are acting as an Ass/Troll to keep this thing inflamed! as far as I'm concerned at this point If everyone on eplaya jumped your ass, GOOD!

In my famliy when I was growing up, we used to have a thing called "the silent treatment". No matter what the person said or did, we would not talk to them. We acted like they didn't exsist.

This troll called Norcal500 shall recieve the same. No matter where he posts, no matter what he says, no one respond to him. Just completly ignore him like he's not even there. Let him drown in his own hate.

Think ya'll can do that? I bet you can. See if you can resist his taunts.

While I don't see eye to eye with Badger on many things....I went back and reread this entire thread. Meticulously.

Something's definitely not right here.

I'm going to take the chance of pissing Badger off and repost his comments that I overlooked the first time around and I think others have too. I think he's called this one perfectly and while everyone else can say what they please from this point on I'll try harder to keep my mouth shut and not give this fool any more free research.

Badger wrote:With apologies beforehand I'll say that I'm not accusing, speculating, pointing fingers or casting aspersion on any new or old poster here. Anyone meandering into this hornet's nest has a right to say their piece no matter how biased or uninformed it may sound. That being said I'd ask that people keep in mind that often boards like this are used as a means of garnering information relevant to cases that are or may be in the process of being litigated. Specualtion can sometimes be seen as informed observation to an event such as a death or injury.

In fact, both individual and collective group opinions or points-of-view might be skimmed from boards such as this to buttress a a particualr argument in cases involving suits of many kinds.

I'd ask that some of the regular posters - regardless of where you stand on the issue - consider this when replying further to the recent reviving of this thread.

I certainly don't mean to diminish Norcal500's sense of loss or his/her belief that the event had something to do with Kathy Lampman's death. However, there's just something about the timing here that makes my stomach churn and my skin crawl. Call it a gut feeling but frankly I don't trust that this incitement - and it *is* incitement - is anything more than a fishing expedition by those who might possibly have something to gain out of this tragedy.

Norcal500, as much as I wish you'd get resolution around your sense of loss I don't think you'll find it here. If you need to shout into the wind then by all means shout and scream. Blame us. Blame Burningman. Blame Kathy's friends or blame God. You can do that here. Having said that I'd ask that others here consider the possibility that all might not be what it seems with this latest barrage of posts.

If this seems negative or callous of me I'll own up to it.

BTW, I neither speak for nor do I represent the the ideas, views, opinions or policies of the Burningman event.

K-IV
~~~~
Thank you for over 7 years of eplaya memories. I have asked Emily Sparkle to delete my account and I am gone. Goodbye and Goodluck to all of you! I will miss you!

[quote="Badger"]With apologies beforehand I'll say that I'm not accusing, speculating, pointing fingers or casting aspersion on any new or old poster here. Anyone meandering into this hornet's nest has a right to say their piece no matter how biased or uninformed it may sound. That being said I'd ask that people keep in mind that often boards like this are used as a means of garnering information relevant to cases that are or may be in the process of being litigated. Specualtion can sometimes be seen as informed observation to an event such as a death or injury.

In fact, both individual and collective group opinions or points-of-view might be skimmed from boards such as this to buttress a a particualr argument in cases involving suits of many kinds.

I'd ask that some of the regular posters - regardless of where you stand on the issue - consider this when replying further to the recent reviving of this thread.

I certainly don't mean to diminish Norcal500's sense of loss or his/her belief that the event had something to do with Kathy Lampman's death. However, there's just something about the timing here that makes my stomach churn and my skin crawl. Call it a gut feeling but frankly I don't trust that this incitement - and it *is* incitement - is anything more than a fishing expedition by those who might possibly have something to gain out of this tragedy.

[/quote]

well now, you just never know what ones intentions are now do you. I do hope lawyers or someone with a lick of sense skims this board and listens to the points made by me. At this point I hope the lawsuit puts the WHOLE thing outta buisness. The attitude all of you fruitcakes display is piss-poor. Really, what is your point in life, what do you stand for, what do you represent or believe in. you don't even know and you think your gonna find it out in the middle of a desert??? Burning Man ??? Give me a fucking break !!!

You wouldn't EVER catch me at such an event, especially at the ripoff price of over $200 a ticket. who's the sucker now??? and for what, to look at a bunch of sweaty,naked hippies. sorry thats not really my style.

Sounds like I struck a nerve with a few "burners". GOOD.

Try and ignore me but it will be me inside your head you think about as this post just eats away at you day and night. Have fun at your hippie fest and don't get lost !!!

At this point Norcal the only relation I see to you and any herd is what a herd tends to leave on the ground. Your trolling is starting to stink. Coming here under the pretense of speaking your opinion re. Kathy Lampman's death is one thing. To take your biases over to other non-related threads on this board for the sake of trashing the event and the people who attend it is quite another.

[quote="Isotopia"][quote]I've never been one to go along with the herd mentality.[/quote]

At this point Norcal the only relation I see to you and any herd is what a herd tends to leave on the ground. Your trolling is starting to stink. Coming here under the pretense of speaking your [i]opinion[/i] re. Kathy Lampman's death is one thing. To take your biases over to other non-related threads on this board for the sake of trashing the event and the people who attend it is quite another.

You're an ass of the lowest order.

Now, get over here and suck mommy's dick.[/quote]

This topic stunk like shit from the beginning. If you want to thank somebody why don't you thank your buddy who started this topic in the beginning. Did you you think that it would only be read by you people and not her friends or family. I came on here trying to make a point. Trying to start a mature debate about an issue I feel strongly about. Then I was called everything from a fucking tool to an asshat. Thats real mature. You wonder why I am stirring up shit??? Because you pushed me and now I react. Start calling me names like a 3 year old and you will get treated 3 year old. Start posting shit about kathy and Kathy's family's greed then I'm going to bash your stupid event and everything you people THINK you stand for. I'll talk all the shit I want and what the fuck are YOU going to do about it?

hey lady instead of sucking your dick why don't you come over here and bend over and I'll rip you a new asshole.....

I still wonder why his wife gave her ticket to Kathy...Hunter S asked a good question in the other thread, why didn't she go? You don't suppose this overbearing ogre of a man had anything to do with the decision? Perhaps in his zeal at enforcing what appears to be a closed minded, bigoted, shades of Fred Phelps mindset over his family he was able to pawn the ticket off on somebody else, that person unfortunately and tragically got killed, and now his psyche is screaming out with guilt?

And when you look at the posts I'm thinking this guy is about as stable as Reactor #4 at Chernobyl was back on 4/26/86 at 1 am.

~~~~~~~~~

If this guy cared anything at all about Kathy he wouldn't be on here running his mouth, he'd be trying to understand what made the event so special to her. Instead we get rants and stupidity and on and on it goes. It's like we're seeing a double tragedy unfold here....and you try not to look but you can't help but look.

K-IV
~~~~
Thank you for over 7 years of eplaya memories. I have asked Emily Sparkle to delete my account and I am gone. Goodbye and Goodluck to all of you! I will miss you!

I'll talk all the shit I want and what the fuck are YOU going to do about it?

Well, while I'm a lower level moderator and cannot personally ban anyone from the board, there can be consequences. Not my decision, and at this point, not even my recommendation, but you agreed to these terms when you signed up:

ConsequencesIt is the goal of the administrators to exercise the powers set forth here in a fair and even-handed manner. In most situations, efforts to mediate the issues surrounding complaints will be attempted before action is taken against violators.

Upon investigation of a complaint, or personal observation of violation of the expected behaviors, administrators may take any of the following actions:

Topics or threads that are inappropriate for a certain discussion area may be moved or redirected to a more appropriate folder. Personal attacks via username, topic or thread may result in the immediate deactivation of the account. User will be notified via email of the action. Cross-posting may result in freezing repeated threads with a message notifying users to continue in one appropriate thread. The original cross-posting user will be notified of the action via email and reminded of the community guidelines against cross-posting. Topics or threads intended for commercial gain may result in immediate deletion of same. Multiple violations will result in the revocation of thread creation and/or posting privileges. Continued or extreme violations will result in account deactivation.

I still wonder why his wife gave her ticket to Kathy...Hunter S asked a good question in the other thread, why didn't she go? You don't suppose this overbearing ogre of a man had anything to do with the decision? Perhaps in his zeal at enforcing what appears to be a closed minded, bigoted, shades of Fred Phelps mindset over his family he was able to pawn the ticket off on somebody else, that person unfortunately and tragically got killed, and now his psyche is screaming out with guilt?

~~~~~~~~~

OK, Kathy wanted to go to BM and I had a ticket but I had a BAD FEELING about it and didn't want to go. I gave it to her, I did not sell it her and obviously my husband had nothing to do with my decision as we weren't even married then.
I
have never felt guilty, not one single time because when you are meant to go, you go. It was Kathy's time, I am sure she would have still died had she not decided to go. I never thought it would have been me, or speculated on other circumstances. Kathy was meant to go.

As for this quote,

"If this guy cared anything at all about Kathy he wouldn't be on here running his mouth, he'd be trying to understand what made the event so special to her. "

This is absolute pure speculation, we don't know how "special" the event was to her, this was her first time being there and like I said none of her friends were there, she had known those people in her camp for not very long at all. We don't know how she felt about it. Maybe she had a terrible time, we just don't know.

The thing is, I posted a reply in the first place to get away from all of this Kathy talk. It is one thing to post about the lawsuit which I have mentioned I do not think is right or agree with, it is another thing to speculate on how she would feel about it. I don't think people who didn't know her should speculate about this at all. This has all resorted to name calling but in the end it doesn't bother me, there are circumstances about the lawsuit that no one knows about and if you did you would probably feel better.

One point, ask yourself why none of the money "raised" for Kathy went to her charities. It didn't and that should make you all very mad. That is a good reason for a lawsuit and while I stick to the point that nothing will come of the lawsuit, there are just things that all of you don'tknow about it.
The END, I am just glad to have said my piece.

OH, and you guys are SO funny with your "troll" talk. I guess my hubby and I will have to go back to our little cave home and eat some troll feed for dinner. YUMMY.

The explanation at least for me is appreciated.
And that is a good question about the charity money. A very good question.

As for the troll talk this board has seen people come in making incendiary comments with the purpose of trying to disrupt things. By firing back comments we're simply screening things out, determing if someone's a blowbelly, an annoyance, or a real threat. When your husband took the comments out of this thread and went into other threads with it and made statements about wanting to end the event...the gloves came off and the battle was joined.

This event draws a lot of passionate, creative people and I honestly hope that despite all that's happened here and been said back and forth that both of you will take another look at it. It's not just a naked hippy drug fest in the desert. This event can seriously change lives and for the best. I really hope you'll dig deeper and see what it is that draws so many from so many places to spend a week in the desert.

K-IV
~~~~
Thank you for over 7 years of eplaya memories. I have asked Emily Sparkle to delete my account and I am gone. Goodbye and Goodluck to all of you! I will miss you!

I'd like to respond to a couple of points so far:
"But why even put a dance floor ontop of a car in the first place. I think common sense was mentioned earlier. What common sense tells a person to build a dancefloor ontop of a truck. I say that if your going to provide such a platform that the creator and co-creators must be held responsible for safety or fault. What happened to the all for one, one for all attitude that seems to be the motive at these events? I do appreciate the creativity but I think it is misdirected."

Here are my rebuttals:

1) Kathy had a week to evaluate the bar car before she decided to ride that fateful night.

2) Kathy chose her outfit that night.

3) Kathy's chose to wear six inch boots that night.

4) Kathy chose to take Ecsatcy that night (a fact confirmed in her autopsy)

5) Kathy chose to ignore the 3 spotters on the car and chose to dismount while the car was in motion.

6) She dismounted, stumbled, and fell directly under the wheels of the trailer.

"Of course we are all responsible for our actions but when the direct actions of another cause the death of another than YOU my friend are responsible. Its like if somebody pranced across my front lawn and tripped on my sprinkler and broke their neck. they would sue me the owner of the property. I believe the legal term is "neglect" If your child were to drown in a neighbors pool at a pool party I'd bet you would sue the owner of the house."

Ok, idiot. Here's the difference. First of all, you would not be responsible for the death of someone prancing across your front lawn tripping over your sprinkler unless your sprinkler proved to be an inherently dangerous device. If you believe the legal term is "neglect", you need another lawyer. Please intiate a lawsuit alleging "neglect" - I'd love to earn my fees knowing the judge will allow me to collect from you.

As for the pictures you proffer that purport to show that the visibility is "near zero" on the night in question: Well, anyone who has attended Burning Man will tell you that any nighttime picture will show the multiple particulates in the air at the time. Shooting pictures at night on the Playa subjects you to the whims of the wind and the desert - it's hard to get a clean picture, near impossible, actually.

So what's the end? How much should the campmembers pay for her unfortunate death, regardless of whether we were responsible for the car's construction, or her operation, or the operation on the night of kathy's unfortunate death?

I have checked the provided case number and what scares me the most is that I see an awful lot of named defendants. I feel for those that have felt sorrow over this. Really I do. Lawsuits will not replace the loved one. If indeed campmates are among the defandents than I am even more saddened. I can almost understand the desire to litigate against those who operated aforementioned partybarge. In fact hearing about this some time ago is one of the reasons I have a personal dislike for partybarges. As far as litigation taken against the ORG, well thats just outright disgusting to me. Kind of like when I heard about the hot coffee/fast food lawsuit. As to REMSA being included thats even more disgusting to me. REMSA is hired to provide care to people that need it.. heat exhaustion/stroke, sunburn, and sometimes more serious injuries. REMSA to me even though they are "hired hands" qualify as heroes just like the fire dept folks that work in ALL our towns and cities. They are not baby sitters! I am truly sickened that someone would include people that were not even present at the time of the accident nor associated with the operation or building of said artcar/partybarge. This has made me seriously reconsider my veggieoil project. I am not a rich man.. quite the opposite. Until I read this entire thread after it was brought back to the top after many months I am fearful of seriously active participation. I am even scared to join a theme camp now. This really is sickening.

I am sorry if anyone is offended that I posted but I am not the one that brought this thread back up.

PS

Norcal: You are a fucktard of the highest magnitude.

Badger/Crypto/BBSue/SpectaB: Thanks for the great points you all have made. This thread should not have gone on this long but I understand why its here and am thankful for it not being censored and/or removed.

I am so sorry the pain of this has hit you so hard for so long, Karma12, er, Karma 13 (now that you have 5 posts will it become Karma14??) but it's not a reason to keep trying to bring this up over and over and over...

I know you have all kinds of inside info and issues here, but honestly, it should be discussed more appropriately with a professional to help you heal and get on with your life. NOT on a forum over and over and over and overand over and over...

The title of this thread, when you posted it under K12 way back when, said volumes about it's true motive back then. Now, perhaps, you need to come to terms with it, find peace, and move on. And quit dredging it back up, through the mud.

The hot coffee lawsuit is actually a great example of how lawsuits are misrepresented to the public.
The one that McDonalds touts is one where a woman received third degree burns in her crotch.
They had many previous complaints about the temperature.
She asked them to cover her medical expenses.
This was about $700.
She was told to screw herself.
In court, McDonald's was caught obstructing justice and lying about the many previous lawsuits for the same thing and everything else.
The judgement they were hit with was for lying to a judge and jury,
not for hot coffee.
Doctors and hospitals are actually overly protected from lawsuits,
not vulnerable at all.
We have a system created by big companies for themselves.

I know nothing about the Lampman accident.
I do know that you have to name everyone that is a possible person involved, unless someone has claimed resposnsibility and you are satisfied that is correct.
As people present their testimony, most are removed from the lawsuit.
As I understand it, this is a necessary procedure.

Don't be conned by big companies that want 100% immunity for anything they do. They are nearly there anyway.
You'll be very sorry if they get what they want.
That starts with lying to the public.