In response to mister shifter, I’d answer: when the establishment does not have a license to sell. Again, it’s common in other states. New retaturant opens, for whatever reasons they do not have a permit to sell/serve alcoholic beverages, and for the interim, they allow (even encourage) their patrons to bring their own bottle. There are many restaurants in PA for which not having the permit, but encouraging patrons to BYOB is part of the business model. They have a loyal customer base who come again and again for any variety of reasons (they are wine lovers with their own cellars who dont like to cook, or just folks who are repulsed by the principle of drinking something in a restaurant that’s been marked up 200% with no value added, and often value diminished by an idiot sommelier).

Like 0angle, I found at least one place in Columbus that when asked has told me “well, if we don’t know you’re doing it …” which meant they couldn’t supply a suitable glass, etc. etc. Far from ideal, but it worked once or twice.

Mister Shifter said:
This may come across badly, but when is it couth to bring your own alcohol into an establishment?

Yeah, well, starting the thread on this Board was kind of like starting a thread on Chinese pork buns on a website devoted to West Virginia deer hunting. By and large, this Board is habituated by young beer drinkers and not thirty-something or older wine drinkers. For wine drinkers, it is not uncommon to occasionally seek BYOB restaurants for various reasons-an anniversary perhaps with a wine that has sentimental attachment, meeting friends who are interested in a rare particular type of wine, wanting to have a fine meal with a wine that is not available in retail channels, chiefly. Virtually always where BYOB is permitted, there is an associated “corkage fee” of as little as $10 and as much as $40/bottle depending on how expensive/fancy the restaurant is. For wine drinkers, sometimes it makes more sense to pay $25 corkage for the privilege of opening a wine you absolutely love rather than paying 100% mark-up on a $35 bottle (at retail) that you don’t mind, but don’t get excited about. It is also somewhat regionally cultural; in Chicago for example, it is pretty widely known that corkage is permitted and most frequent diners at restaurants occasionally bring their own to a BYOB friendly restaurant.

From what I know, if the business has a license, you can’t take your own. If the business doesn’t have a license, then you can take your own and there could be a corkage fee. If you have a good relationship with a restaurant and they know you’re not Liquor Control, they will probably allow you to BYO for a special occasion. I don’t think Columbus is a savvy enough wine market for a BYO model regardless. Back to your original post, as another poster commented, it might be how you’re interpreting the code.

I’m a wine and beer enthusiast and I finished in the bottom half of my class. :)

FSonicSmith said:
By and large, this Board is habituated by young beer drinkers and not thirty-something or older wine drinkers.

By and large? I think this is a big stretch. I’d venture to guess that the vast majority of regular posters on CU are at least in their 30′s. You assuming that most of them don’t appreciate wine also seems like a reach.

I’m not trying to be confrontational, but making false generalized statements to bolster your case doesn’t seem productive.

Mister Shifter said:
By and large? I think this is a big stretch. I’d venture to guess that the vast majority of regular posters on CU are at least in their 30′s. You assuming that most of them don’t appreciate wine also seems like a reach.

I’m not trying to be confrontational, but making false generalized statements to bolster your case doesn’t seem productive.

I don’t get that impression, but who knows without a survey. It was you, however, who posted that it seemed “dickish” to bring your own bottle to a restaurant. I have to confess, though, that even for me, who is accustomed to doing BYOB, I do still feel a bit awkward carrying a wine tote into a restaurant. So, on any level, you were not totally wrong with your rhetorical question.

I think your common ground is that if BYO was allowed, the establishment would charge a corkage fee to make it worthwhile for the customer not ordering off their own list so it would be less “dickish” and acceptable for all involved.

meltsintowonder said:
From what I know, if the business has a license, you can’t take your own. If the business doesn’t have a license, then you can take your own and there could be a corkage fee. If you have a good relationship with a restaurant and they know you’re not Liquor Control, they will probably allow you to BYO for a special occasion. I don’t think Columbus is a savvy enough wine market for a BYO model regardless. Back to your original post, as another poster commented, it might be how you’re interpreting the code.

I’m a wine and beer enthusiast and I finished in the bottom half of my class. :)

You’ve gotten away from the original question. The original question is NOT “what can you do with BYOB in Ohio?”. The original question is; Is BYOB not permitted in Ohio because of a direct statutory provision on point, or is it not permitted because the DoLC continues to repeat an incorrect (or correct) interpretation of a statute?”. As should be abundantly clear by now, I suspect that the DoLC keeps repeating their own interpretation of a vague statute (centered on the word “keep”) and perhaps their interpretation of the open container provision someone else posted above, and it seems clear that this interpretation has never been tested at the Ohio Appellate level.

I’m the one said it would be ‘dickish’ as your original post indicated that you want to BYOB into a licensed establishment. I posted the ORC and even quoted the relevent sections, for license holders, it seems pretty clear that you can’t carry in.

There may be some ambiguity on BYOB for non-licensed places, but my experience is that if you’re on private property it’s up to the owner to allow/disallow. We’ve carried into restaurants in Ohio a few times when they didn’t have licenses but made it known that it was acceptable. If you have a license, I would feel that bringing in my own wine would be a bit of an insult, although I can see situations where bringing champagne to a place that doesn’t normally sell it may be a frequent request.

pez said:
I’m the one said it would be ‘dickish’ as your original post indicated that you want to BYOB into a licensed establishment. I posted the ORC and even quoted the relevent sections, for license holders, it seems pretty clear that you can’t carry in.

There may be some ambiguity on BYOB for non-licensed places, but my experience is that if you’re on private property it’s up to the owner to allow/disallow. We’ve carried into restaurants in Ohio a few times when they didn’t have licenses but made it known that it was acceptable. If you have a license, I would feel that bringing in my own wine would be a bit of an insult, although I can see situations where bringing champagne to a place that doesn’t normally sell it may be a frequent request.

/late 30s. //wine drinker

I started to respond to your post stating that it is the “open container provision” and is inapplicable and that carrying in a closed bottle of wine into a private restaurant can’t possibly fall under that provision, but then I thought about it some more and now I don’t know. I still think I am right, that it does not apply-since when is having a glass of wine in a restaurant an open-container situation-, but perhaps the exception provision you quoted at the end is the provision the DoLC cites to as being controlling of the issue and perhaps they could prevail both at the administrative level and in the Courts with that.

I still think the interpretation is the problem. “Keep” could mean anything, and despite your English grammatical interpretation, I’m not sure that necessarily rules. But, in the end, how you or I interpret it becomes moot, the only thing that matters is how a court would interpret it.

So, you might be right or wrong, but to test it, you’ll have to find a proprietor who is willing to have their permit revoked, hire an attorney, go to court, argue it, and prevail or fail. Then you’ll know for sure.

I’m doubtful you’ll find too many takers, and if the overwhelming sentiment, in Columbus anyway, is that it is not allowed, that’s not going to change.

This sort of reminds me of people who argue that they don’t have to pay taxes because of the way they interpret the statutes. Their interpretation says they’re right, but they still end up in jail when they test it.

I started to respond to your post stating that it is the “open container provision” and is inapplicable and that carrying in a closed bottle of wine into a private restaurant can’t possibly fall under that provision, but then I thought about it some more and now I don’t know. I still think I am right, that it does not apply-since when is having a glass of wine in a restaurant an open-container situation-, but perhaps the exception provision you quoted at the end is the provision the DoLC cites to as being controlling of the issue and perhaps they could prevail both at the administrative level and in the Courts with that.

I think the open container is the crux of the rule. I was at a Christmas party last weekend at a bar where people exchanged bottles of liquor and wine as gifts, we were asked not to open them, but we could bring them in.

Even if there is ambiguity in the word of the law, I would think after the ODLC’s enforcement tactics under the Taft administration, I’d be paranoid as hell with a liquor license.

From a liquor control agents mouth “byob is strictly prohibited in permitted and non permitted establishments. Byob in any public or large private setting is illegal and the person or persons facilitating can be charged with keeper of place an undisclosed misdemeanor ranging from An m5 to m1. Permitted establishments can have their license sanctioned aswell.” i asked that question personally during a training session and that was the answer regarding byob. The man had a badge, handcuffs, a gun and the ability to arrest and charge. I trust his answer.

License holders also worry because The Division will create crazy, uncommon scenarios to cite the license holders for these gray areas or situations pretty far away from legitimately serving people who are not 21 years old. Manipulative and very anti-business.