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You thought Doom 2016 had a plot? You tried to get invested in the story for... Doom? That's the first mistake. It's half corporate satire/parody and half tongue-in-cheek self-mythology whilst you repeatedly give Hayden the finger. It's hilarious, and you shouldn't take it seriously because that was never the point.

You thought Doom 2016 had a plot? You tried to get invested in the story for... Doom?

No, but it turned out the developers just would not let me skip any of the cutscenes where the player-character either punches a computer screen or eviscerates a monster and the story sequences where you have no choice but to listen to a guy who basically sounds like the Crysis nanosuit delivers plot exposition in a rather dour tone. Hilarious stuff, indeed. Best satire I have played since Dead Space.

Sarcasm aside, for a game that is not to be taken seriously, everything about it - from the gritty, realistic aesthetics to the overly serious, complicated lore - strikes me as oddly unhumourous. The only vaguely amusing things are the easter eggs, namely the Doomguy dolls and the classic levels - which stick out as a sore thumb and look terrible in contrast to the game's modern graphics and lighting.

No, but it turned out the developers just would not let me skip any of the cutscenes where the player-character either punches a computer screen or eviscerates a monster and the story sequences where you have no choice but to listen to a guy who basically sounds like the Crysis nanosuit delivers plot exposition in a rather dour tone. Hilarious stuff, indeed. Best satire I have played since Dead Space.

Sarcasm aside, for a game that is not to be taken seriously, everything about it - from the gritty, realistic aesthetics to the overly serious, complicated lore - strikes me as oddly unhumourous. The only vaguely amusing things are the easter eggs, namely the Doomguy dolls and the classic levels - which stick out as a sore thumb and look terrible in contrast to the game's modern graphics and lighting.

All of those were fine. I think you're approaching this from an angle where you were predisposed to dislike the entire game because it was different from what you wanted it to be, so for you its perceived faults are magnified.

The exposition lasted a minute or two at best between hours of shooting/punching things to death, jumping and explosions, so their function as interstitials between level blow-outs didn't really bother me. The lore is... not complicated. At all. It's a send-up of technobullshit lore in games by a bunch of nerds. I found it silly, but if you didn't like it, it's completely optional. It's not like you can't ignore it.

Yeah, there's a of of flat-out absurdism on display in Doom 2016, from holograms asking for employees to volunteer to be sacrificed, delivered in chipper corporate tones, to the secondary flavour-texts unlocked for monsters.

Don't get me wrong, JohnnyTheWolf's highlighted unskippable exposition sequences piss me off every time I replay the early levels. But thankfully, they're very front-loaded, and there's far less of that stuff the further in you get.
And if you're prepared to read the lore texts that get unlocked, there's quite a bit to laugh about.

I think I'm getting close to the end now, as Alex has asked me to stop by his office to talk. I've put the main story on hold and started working on side quests, which just keep on coming. This game has a ton of content, and at the moment feels sort of endless. My last save game says 30 hours, and I can't see finishing before putting in at least another 10.

I've also got on this kick with using the terminals in the security stations and trying to locate every single (usually dead) person in each area (Lobby, Hardware Labs, etc.) It's kind of OCD, but also kind of fun, and usually yields some nice goodies. You find people in the strangest places sometimes.

I have to add my vote how good this game is. From the trailers, I was quite neutral about the game sijce it looked like regular fps, in spite of declaration about being SS2 succesor. I also considered Arkane games too much action and aggresive. However, my favourite reviewer, known for his love of LGS, convinced me to try the Prey on steam (2h for free). After 2h I was incredible happy to play SS3. OH.MY.GOOD. Why it took so long to create such a masterpiece? Some people say that last third of the game is easy and to action pumped. Yes and no. When I was in that part of the game I was to self-confident that a certain turnout catch me unawere. And knce again I was the Prey and not the Hunter. Until the end, the game is fantastic. And I actually like the end. SS2 had worse one :-D

It completly changed my view on Arkane games and I juat bought Dishonored2

Btw. "December" is to similar to "Deciever" to be taken seriously without suspicion .

It's the combat. I just don't like shooters. I played on easy mode. But the game didn't feel easy. Respawning enemies, while the player has limited ammo is a dumb idea, imho. Or at least an idea I didn't enjoy. I made it to Alex's office to upload some data. And then I got ambushed by 4 military operators. I didn't enjoy that. I then try to read on the net how to deal with the situation in the simplest way. Turns out the damn things keep respawning (unless you know exactly what to do). And the last part of the game is mainly running from objective to objective, fighting all the time, no more quiet exploring. I also by mistake read a spoiler about the ending(s). That is when I decided to stop playing. I don't think I will enjoy the last chapters of the game very much. Too bad.

Maybe it's time to finish Dishonored 2. Or finish GTAV. Not that I have much time to play these days. Most likely I'll do a NG+++ run in DS3. Or play DS1 again, as Renzatic's revisit looks cool. Or I go finally kill the Fume Knight.

The enemies have limited ammo? When is that? I've not encountered that in the game at all anywhere.

If you mean that you have limited ammo, well System Shock and Bioshock have this as well, which Prey is modelled off (far more System Shock 2 to be specific). Works perfectly fine in those games. I've been playing Prey for a few weeks now (in bursts) and I've not had any issues at all with ammo.

The wrench is your best friend.

For me I've avoided spoilers and only watched one early E3 video of the game prior to playing this. So been a whole heap of new experiences. I'm loving it. But as much as the comparisons to System Shock 2 are there:

* Character Development - Half and half. It's similar but at the same time quite different. Far better I would argue on this aspect. The special abilities are FAR better and I would say that they are far more beneficial in this game than in SS2 where they were more optional. And since you can craft your own neuromods later on, the farming of resources to create more + seek out more resources in general to make more is there. SS2 never had that. I never really farmed resources at all in any of System Shock's or Bioshock's, where as in this game I have been on occasion.
* Environment - Check
* Gameplay - Check (very much a check)
* Hacking - Check. The hacking is really fun in this game. Plays like an old Atari game kinda.
* Research - Very different. It's more like how Bioshock 2 did it. Sort of.
* Respawns - No. Very different. In System Shock 1 & 2 + Bioshock 1 & 2, enemies would respawn over time whether or not the player was in the map or not. In Prey it appears to only ever happen once a player leaves that map. So whilst it's respawning yes, it works its way into the gameplay quite differently. In the other games no map/area was ever really completely clear of enemies. In Prey you can "clear" areas.
* Setting - Check (though not identical, more just the space setting)
* Story/plot - COMPLETELY different.

Prey goes off in an ENTIRELY different direction (story/plot wise) here than SS2 does, which is fine. It's just not as compelling (for me). Feels a bit disjointed where as in SS2 (and in the first 2 Bioshock's also) everything all fit together like pieces in jigsaw puzzles. For Prey it just feels all over the place. Am I the only one on this?

In the System Shock's and Bioshock's I got what was going on quite early on. In this one I'm still not entirely sure. Though that is the point I get the feeling, which will likely tie in later on. I look forward to that.

Curious - How many of you have been stacking up corpses for use with the recycle grenades. If I need to remove an obstacle to get past, I've been making a habit of doing it prior to using the grenade. Resources being scarce at times, it sure helps out. Just very time consuming.

Yes, of course I mean respawning enemies, while the player has limited ammo. Yes, I've not really ran out, but I did feel the need to always worry about my ammo usage. As I said, I don't care much for shooter combat anymore. So I see all combat as an irritating obstacle to continue with the game. Now if I could just keep blasting with my shotgun, it would be ok, maybe. But if I have to make sure every shot counts, I will more often irritated than enjoying the game.

I also didn't like the movement in zero-gravity. Too awkward, I didn't feel I was in control. Especially when you were indoor with zero-gravity. Later when I had a few chips it became better. Banging into walls isn't fun, even less when it hurts.

When I played SS2, I had edited some number in a config or save-file. Enemies respawned, but very very rarely. I would go back to areas that I had cleared out, and they would be empty (like I prefer). Then once in every 10-20 visits of such an area, there would suddenly be a respawned enemy. I liked that. With Prey it was obvious, every time you make progress in the main story, and then go back to another area, it would be filled with enemies again. I didn't like that. It was not a surprise, it was just another chore. Also, fuck Nightmare typhons.

I shouldn't be complaining.
I guess Prey just wasn't my game. Too much of a shooter, even though the story was ok. I don't mind RPG-elements in games (I spent 10k hours playing WoW). But in short games (like ~40 hours to finish), I just can't be bothered by investigating in game mechanics. Just let me blast everything with a shotgun. Don't make life hard on me if I didn't upgrade the correct weapon for a particular enemy, or put my talent-points in the wrong skill. Ask me anything about the rogue talent-tree in Wow 2005-2010, and I can answer all your questions. I know that shit. But ask me what the stun-gun in Prey does, and I don't have a clue. I tried it once, it didn't impress me, I went back to the shotgun. I was playing on Easy, after all.

I wanted to play Dark Souls. Because of how it looked. But Dark Souls has a few game mechanics that really piss me off. But the game lets you circumvent those. (E.g. you can save and copy back save-games to make the game less punishing. You can play offline to prevent invasions). I didn't feel the easy-mode in Prey made the game that much easier. If I hadn't been able to tweak Dark Souls to my liking, I wouldn't have played it, and I would have missed 3 great games.

I wonder if I still would be able to enjoy HL1, if I had to play it for the first time. I think my gaming preferences have changed a lot over the last 20 years. (HL1 was the first modern computer game I played). I think it is about time for the successor of Skyrim.

Gryz hated the controls in zero gravity; I loved them. I loved being able to drift around the entire space station and have the scale and position of every part of the station look and feel accurate, while my time spent exploring out there rewarded me with some subtle yet satisfying exploration and discovery. I also think the zero gravity segments function as a fun reference to the original System Shock's cyberspace sequences.

Gryz, you can avoid combat through large swaths of the game. Prey is far more stealth-friendly than its direct predecessors, and the level design is rich with alternate paths. But maybe you're not a stealth fan. You can also deal with most enemies in most situations through indirect measures; use the environment, or be creative in combining different abilities. When you combine stealth with indirect measures, you can pretty much avoid all shooter aspects (well, almost).

However, the game suffers a bit from something that plagued BioShock: sometimes the more fun methods of combat require deliberately avoiding the most obvious and efficient ways to kill.

As for respawning... in many areas you can lure and trap the enemies. They stay trapped and by not killing them, they won't respawn. This was my method for permanently "clearing" several areas. But the areas that repopulated whenever you triggered progress in the main story were predictable and annoying.

Prey's a strange game. On one hand, it looks, feels and plays more like a great LookingGlass legacy game than anything we've seen since Deus Ex. And on the whole, I really love it. But on the other hand, it is clearly a flawed masterpiece. Instead of turning me into an obsessive fanboy, it too often leaves me reflecting on its problems and annoyances.

For example, when in the history of first-person gaming has the strength of a great game been fighting small, fidgety and fast knee-high enemies and why did nobody at Arkane raise this concern early in its development? It's apparent Arkane see it as a problem now; in a big patch released just this morning, they made significant behavior changes to mimics, with those changes clearly targeted at making them less annoying.

Yeah got it recently in a sale, there's a hell of a lot to like here. I was put off initially because Dishonorororored 2, while possessing some charming level design and some great systems, did nothing to make me feel like I wasn't wasting my time playing it. Sort of weirdly flat, empty experience. This feels a lot more substantial, but i'm also going in not expecting much, and expectation is a bitch etc.

Me too. But that was probably because of my input-devices (a joystick). The joystick allows very easy and relaxed movement. But the one thing it is not good at is stopping quickly (unless I tinker with the deadzone, which I sometimes do for some games). And another thing: the game shows you which button to press when you reached your destination. I have all actions mapped to keyboard-keys, and I have those keyboard-keys mapped to buttons on my joystick. So I know: press this button to equip the shotgun. But after a while I have no idea what keyboard-key is being simulated to press. So all of that is my problem.
The other thing is: I'm a computer programmer. When I see the hacking mini-game, I have absolutely no idea what that game has to do with hacking.

I loved being able to drift around the entire space station

Yep, that was a very good game element. As I wrote, Prey is a clever game. Unfortunately I hardly ever used this option to move between sections of the space-station. The (global) map tells you how the sections are connected. But for some reason, I never got that map in my head. So I never thought: "hey, I'm close to section X, less go there via the outdoors area". I'm usually pretty good at remembering maps and finding the quickest way to get somewhere. But not in this game.

But maybe you're not a stealth fan.

Mmmm, we're here on the Thief forums. And, as I told you, I've played 10k+ hours of WoW, mostly playing my rogue (the stealth class in WoW). My most precious possession in the Dark Souls games is my Slumbering Dragoncrest Ring (make no noise). Yes, I always play slow, try to be a bit stealthy. But when you come out of an elevator, and there are mobs in front of you that you can not avoid, I start running. Also fuck Nightmare typhons. Also stealth doesn't help much with those little mimic fuckers. I guess rather quickly I gave up on trying to be stealthy. The only stealthy thing I did was when I saw a typhon before it saw me, I tried to shoot it in the back.

As for respawning... in many areas you can lure and trap the enemies. They stay trapped and by not killing them, they won't respawn.

That's an unintuitive game-mechanic. You need to read about that. Or otherwise it's at least a cheesy way of playing. I don't like that in games. Also, when you used the gloo-gun to stun enemies, don't they break out after a while ? I think my enemies did. That's why I decided to always just kill them. Or run.

Instead of turning me into an obsessive fanboy, it too often leaves me reflecting on its problems and annoyances.

Same here. I wanted to like the game. I love the space-station itself. (For me the game world and the exploration are the most important aspects of a game. I guess that's why I loved WoW at the time. And the Elder Scroll games. And why I like the Dark Souls games so much now). But for some reason, there are so many moments when I thought "fuck that, I'm gonna stop playing now". I've had my fair share of frustration in the Dark Souls games. But I always wanted to continue, never stop.

Another factor might have been the fact that you play as Morgan Yu. I don't like that. I like games where I am playing as an anonymous nobody. Elder Scroll games. World of Warcraft. Dark Souls. And many other games. When I am role-playing as somebody someone else has chosen for me, I feel a lot less attached to the character.

The Dishonored games share some of the same issues. I've finished DS1, but not its addons. I want to, but for some reason I still haven't. Maybe because I have to play as Daud (yet another character that is not me, and I need time to adjust to that). I bought DS2 last Christmas, played as Corvo, got halfway through the game, but then stopped. It's weird. I like the Dishonored games, I want to play them. But when I do, I often feel no urge to continue playing. Totally opposite of WoW. I really do *not* want to play that game, but when I do, I will not stop for the next 12 hours. It's not only the Skinner-box property of MMOs, there must be something else as well.

I used to love WoW because it was one of the few MMO's that didn't force you to group up to complete content. You could solo your way around just fine for the most part. Besides Ultima Online not many did that. Still don't, really.

After Wrath of The Lich King that all changed. Well, there's still solo content but now there is a far greater reliance on grouping up.

Originally Posted by Gryzemuis

Mmmm, we're here on the Thief forums.

No we're in the General Gaming Forums. The Thief section is elsewhere . This place is just as much System Shock as it is Thief.

I've been playing Prey via keyboard + mouse and the hacking controls you get used to over time. In my first few days I was slamming against walls VERY OFTEN and having to reload, but you get better at it. Now I get around quite quick and usually stop just short of the walls without touching them.

I too don't use the outer ways of getting around, unless I have to. Encounter more respawns (which = more resources) that way.

Me too... The other thing is: I'm a computer programmer. When I see the hacking mini-game, I have absolutely no idea what that game has to do with hacking.

Yeah, that's one of the elements I hated about it. It has nothing to do with computer hacking or with the game world and the over-arching narrative. Even BioShock's hacking mini-game could be rationalized as taking cues from its game world, whereas this was just some random, abstract twitch-oriented arcade game you were forced to play if you wanted to "hack" a digital device.

For anyone reading who hasn't played yet, here's a hacking tip: the hacking minigame plays much better with a gamepad's analog stick; it was clearly designed with gamepads in mind. I played Prey with mouse and keyboard, but I grabbed my gamepad for all the hacking minigames. The hacking still sucks, but the gamepad makes it moderately more tolerable (for me, at least). Or don't use the hacking skill at all; the game usually provides alternative options.

Originally Posted by Gryzemuis

Yes, I always play slow, try to be a bit stealthy. But when you come out of an elevator, and there are mobs in front of you that you can not avoid, I start running.

But you're contradicting yourself here. The elevator doors are clear. You can see the mobs before you step out -- or if you've already stepped out you can jump back in, close the doors and leave.

As a software engineer who "always plays slow," I would think that you might have seen those situations and thought to yourself, "Hmm, there's gotta be a more efficient way to approach this problem."

In the case of the mobs spawning in the lobby outside of the elevator: leave and approach the lobby from another direction!

This was one reason I trapped the phantoms in the Hardware Labs. I used the airlock in the machine room as my repeat approach to the Lobby. (Even if you don't trap them, there are ample alternate routes for stealthing passed them as you go between the Lobby and that particular airlock.)

Yeah, the airlock in Shuttle Bay is closer to the Lobby, but if you emerge from Hardware Labs, you emerge several levels above the mobs (and the Nightmare). You can then use a combination of steps and ledges you create with the Gloo Gun and those huge hanging art pieces to stay above and beyond the mobs and the Nightmare as you crisscross the Lobby.

(Regarding the Nightmare: You know you don't need to fight them, right? You can just hide from it for a couple minutes and it will go away (even if you leave and re-enter the area). In the Mixed Signals sidequest, you even get a tool for near-instantly banishing them if you need.

Originally Posted by Gryzemuis

Also stealth doesn't help much with those little mimic fuckers.

But it does! If you enter a room slowly and carefully examine the environment, you can often identify the mimics and attack them before they turn, which gives you a 50% sneak attack bonus (or higher, depending on your character build). Also, once you get the psychoscope, just enable it with the mimic detect chip installed and examine a room before you enter it. It will identify and tag all mimics for you. Mind you, mimics are still annoying, but taking a patient, stealthy approach makes them easier to handle... and ever-so-slightly less rage-inducing.

Originally Posted by Gryzemuis

Originally Posted by Twist

As for respawning... in many areas you can lure and trap the enemies. They stay trapped and by not killing them, they won't respawn.

That's an unintuitive game-mechanic. You need to read about that. Or otherwise it's at least a cheesy way of playing. I don't like that in games. Also, when you used the gloo-gun to stun enemies, don't they break out after a while ? I think my enemies did. That's why I decided to always just kill them. Or run.

Er... they give you an item called a Typhon Lure and even the loading screen tips inform you that trapping enemies is a legitimate way of handling them. Just toss the lure into a storage closet, and as soon as they enter close the door behind them and lock it.

To me, that seems like an intuitive gameplay mechanic in an immersive sim encouraging the player to creatively use the game systems for emergent gameplay moments.

By trapping them, I wasn't referring to the Gloo Gun, btw. As you pointed out, that's just temporary. I'm talking about thoughtfully using the environment against the enemies, which is a key concept Prey seems to be designed around.

The enemies also aren't very good at chasing you in some scenarios. In the elevator situation you mentioned (which I got into last night), I just jumped over the railing onto the glass floor thing and hid where they couldn't reach me. Then I snuck over to my office. When it was time to return to the Arboretum, I had to just book it and close the door, but it worked.

I also use the Gloo gun as essentially my default weapon, and spray basic mimics and phantoms a bit before even attempting to do damage. Makes the mimics way more managable, and the standard phantoms die quickly with a few pistol shots in that state.

Now granted, you can't Gloo all enemies, but for those that I can't, I have the psionic blast which often knocks them down. Or use grenades. Or run and hide.

I can understand if the game doesn't click though. I was THIS close to requesting a Steam refund just prior to the two hour mark, but decided to stick with it. Now I'm more used to the idea that the enemies are rather threatening, but with sufficient approaches to handle them.

PS: The stun gun's fire button needs to be held for a bit to charge; it confused me at first too.

I think there are a lot of creative ways of approaching problems in Prey, but being a sissy I just tended to go with the stun gun for basically everything. Except for the areas where there are large spaces, where I tended to keep my distance and use that uh...gun that makes things explode. During the mid-game before I was overpowered (with human mods, mind) I basically fought everything but the robot-dudes by using the pistol to crit/lure them around a corner while I charged up the stun gun which I then hit them with before taking them out with the shotgun.

I definitely found a different way into the lobby the first time I arrived in the elevator and there was massive brawling going on outside. The way every area of the station loops back into itself there's really no reason to ever stumble into an ambush.

I liked to create zones of death. As in, spots where I'd place all the turrets on the map I could find to create a "safe" zone.

This worked for a good while, AS LONG as I placed the turrets in spots where enemies did not regularly travel. Otherwise I'd come back in an hour or so and find them all destroyed, which considering the spare parts investment for fixing, hacking and fortifying 5+ turrets is a fair bit.

After a few times of that happening I've stopped setting up those. But was fun for a while. Worked great for luring enemies into. Would take down most enemies in seconds. The electric and fire ones though, no. I learned to not lure those ones back. Certainly not the Nightmare's either.

Out of the 3 I setup early on, only 1 of my death trap zones is still standing.

I imagine the designers are happy to see that while one person (Gryz) hated the stun gun and almost never used it, another (Jason) leaned on it as his bread and butter weapon. Prey really is a game about playing the way you want. Luring enemies around the corner while you charged the gun... simple, yet unique enough I never thought of doing that. I have to admit I leaned more towards Gryz with the stun gun.

Originally Posted by icemann

I liked to create zones of death. As in, spots where I'd place all the turrets on the map I could find to create a "safe" zone.

That's great. Did you ever try to keep them repaired or did you not have enough resources to do that?

How far along are you? What kind of build are you using? If you liked using turrets to do your dirty work, you might like using a few of the typhon abilities to build a diverse little army of different things to do your fighting for you. For people who've played maybe passed the halfway point or so: Combining machine mind (for turrets and operators), mindjack (for humans), and phantom genesis (for creating friendly phantoms from corpses) lets you build an army of turrets, operators, a human and a phantom to do all the fighting for you. I've always enjoyed when single player games allow you to pit enemies against each other, and Prey does this as well and as any game I've ever played (... I think).

Speaking of builds... what builds did you guys use? My first time through, I played through simultaneously with two builds, one who strictly used human abilities, and one who strictly used typhon abilities. It was fun, and I enjoyed employing different solutions in each of the playthroughs, but I still wonder if I should have done that for later playthroughs. There were multiple occasions I wished I could have combined human and typhon abilites.

While I enjoyed being forced to creatively use the typhon abilities, the typhon build was a quite a bit tougher to use through most of the game. No hacking, repairing or lifting skills made exploration more difficult. No inventory enhancements became tedious as I could barely carry anything late in the game. And until the late game, combat was quite a bit tougher as I couldn't increase health, psi or stamina and I couldn't upgraded weapons beyond the first basic upgrade.

It did, however, encourage me to try different combinations of abilities I don't think I would have tried had my basic human combat abilities been so limited. In the late game, using typhon abilities to create different traps and build small armies of friendly AIs was pretty fun. Even basic combinations were surprising fun, like casting mimic on a small item, then casting Kinetic Blast or Lift Field on my mimicked self to launch myself up, over and passed a room full of AI. Sometimes I found myself giggling at my ridiculous solutions and the fact that the game actually let me pull off what seemed like a silly idea.