Tapper to Carney: Back to “hostage” again, eh, champ?

posted at 6:01 pm on December 5, 2012 by Dustin Siggins

In 2011, the Republican Party – and especially the conservative/Tea Party wing – was accused of holding the country “hostage” over the debt ceiling debate. In yesterday’s White House briefing, Press Secretary Jay Carney decided to bring the term back into style, using it twice when answering questions on the debt ceiling. Here is the second one:

Q: Jay, speaking of the debt ceiling, does an agreement to raise the debt ceiling have to be part of an agreement to avert the fiscal cliff?

CARNEY: We’re not going to negotiate over what is a fundamental responsibility of Congress, which is to pay the bills that Congress incurred. It should be part of the deal. It should be done and it should be done without drama.

We cannot allow our economy to be held hostage again to the whims of an ideological agenda. We are the United States of America. We are the greatest economy on Earth. We pay our bills. We always have. If Congress wants to reduce spending, that should be part of the negotiations that go into making decisions about how we spend — the programs we spend money on.

Fortunately, ABC’s Jake Tapper didn’t let Carney get away with it:

Q: Just a second ago, you referred to, when talking about the debt ceiling, taking it off the table needs to be part of the deal. You referred to the economy being held hostage by an ideological view. You’re aware that when he was a senator, President Obama voted against raising it.

CARNEY: We addressed that and there was no threat of default at the time. What happened in 2011 — as we all know, because we all lived it, most of us in this room — was the threat of default, a willingness expressed on the record and publicly by numerous members of Congress to see the American economy under default and with all the consequent impacts on the global economy and on the American middle class in order to achieve some sort of political victory that was driven by ideology and partisanship.

….

Q: So it’s okay for people to engage in that kind of nonsense if it’s –

CARNEY: Jake, I appreciate the question, and we engaged in this a lot at the time and I refer you to my comments about it back then. But the fact that –

Q — people voting the way that Senator Obama did and except you’re using derisive terms –

CARNEY: What happened in 2011 is that Republicans in Congress demanded — said they would let America default for the first time in its history if they did not get the items on their agenda. That was consequential and it was unprecedented, and the result was bad for everyone.

So, in the last few days, we’ve gone from the President putting forth an unreasonable plan and taking a vacation to his Press Secretary saying principled disagreement is equivalent to hostage-taking, but only if that principled opposition doesn’t actually impact the country. Gotcha.

Since the start of the Tea Party Movement, politicians in both parties have found it convenient to blame [the Tea Party] whenever the Beltway Bubble is pierced. This hit something of a climax last year, when Tea Party-minded Members of Congress held strong against a no-frills debt ceiling increase. If you’ll remember, the word “hostage” was thrown about.

Well, now principled opposition to increased taxes is being used by House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) to say the coming fiscal cliff won’t be avoided. In other words, Rep. Pelosi is holding the middle-class hostage on tax increases in order to eke out a little more from the wealthy.

Between them, Barack Obama, Harry Reid, and Nancy Pelosi are holding the country hostage over increasing taxes on the rich to cover less than 2% of projected spending over the next decade. Isn’t that the definition of “an ideological agenda,” especially when the nation has at least $61 trillion in long-term debts, liabilities, and obligations, and the President’s “plan” to deal with this problem is to essentially ignore it?

As Ed noted earlier today, it’s certainly becoming possible that the GOP is waiting to use the debt ceiling as its major negotiating point on tax reform and entitlement reform. I’m not holding out hope – trusting the House leadership to actually push for conservative policies hasn’t exactly led to successful outcomes in the last two years – but it’s possible. In which case, we can expect to see Carney and Co. pulling “hostage” out of retirement once again.

Dustin Siggins is the principal blogger for the Tea Party Patriots, a national grassroots coalition with more than 3,500 local chapters. He is also a co-founder of LibertyUnyielding.com, and the author of a forthcoming book on the national debt. The opinions expressed are his own.

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Boehner needs to get Newt in his office and have Newt show him how to speak directly to the people.

The republicans, particularly those who want to avoid primaries should come up with a Contract for Obama’s America that details out some specific policy goals.

Cut, Cap & Balance along with several other conservative wish lists should be included. They should have bumper sticker sized names. Be able to be argued in a few sentences, and have pamphlet sized instruction manuals that detail out the who, what, when, why and where.

As Ed noted earlier today, it’s certainly becoming possible that the GOP is waiting to use the debt ceiling as its major negotiating point on tax reform and entitlement reform.

With the GOP, it’s always the next battle. They’ll cave this time, but this cave will position the party to hold fast at the next choke point. Except when the next battle comes, the GOP is once again portrayed as mean evil racists who hate minorities, women, and the poor and obstructionist to boot. So, once again, the GOP assesses the damage, looks back at where the next battle can be fought and vows, “we’ll hold them at the next pass”. … and so on ad infinitum since about 1930.

What will make the next debt ceiling battle any more favorable than the last debt ceiling battle? Once again, the dems and the media (but I repeat myself) will say that the GOP is holding the economy hostage for the benefits of the few rich. If entitlements are on the table, it will be even worse, then the GOP will be holding the economy hostage in order to take away food, housing, and medical care from poor people.

Don’t know who can do this but you have to counter the ‘Perpetual Campaigner in Chief’ a.k.a. King Putt, with a campaign.
Obowmao claimed that (what the Repubs are claiming now) if you just eliminate certain tax deductions and such you can get things right with the economy. This was his stance just 18 months ago.
Why not play these comments from President Present showing that he has changed direction MORE THAN ONCE. In many instances contradicting his prior positions COMPLETELY. Even the stoopid voters (might) get the message.

Giving the petulant child his wish to tax the “rich” will have about as much effect on the debt and deficit as slapping Tommy would have had on the tornado.

IndieDogg on December 5, 2012 at 6:34 PM

Great analogy. But that’s what communists do; it isn’t about helping the economy recover, it’s all about equality of outcome (except for the communist leaders of course, they have earned their perks because of their selfless sacrifice for the masses for which they are working). In this case, it is also about closing off the route to the top — the rich who are rich will remain that way; those who are starting on that ladder of success will find a point at which the rungs above them have been sawed off so they can’t make that final leap to financial success. The people who have are on those rungs, 20 feet above the gap created by the missing rungs.

Soon enough we will be asking the Egyptian people to come over and help us.

Maybe the Kurds can provide air cover over a no-fly zone somewhere in the southern U.S.

Bishop on December 5, 2012 at 6:11 PM

We could us some advice on how to deal with a power hungry liar in chief.

Galt2009 on December 5, 2012 at 6:16 PM

We have to figure out non-violent means (ie, economic) of separating ourselves from the blue states such that eventual severance of political ties will be a formality. Avoid doing any business in blue states to the best of your ability, cheat on your taxes to the extent you can get away with it, and spend the money in red states.

Does anyone here think there’s any rehabilitating our opposition? Show me the person who thinks JFK Democrats will ever take their party back. They are literally buying more votes every day. We can never compete on that playing field – ever.

People talk about a 2-state solution with Israel and Palestine – why not here? Outside of some normal human recreational activities, what do we have in common with these people anymore? We know why the left wouldn’t want it: they need their producer/tax slaves, but they still need our labor to support their leisure class. The ballot box isn’t working. We have to fight back with our wallets in order to make any progress.

Beltway Boehner doesn’t want things to change. He wants business as usual so as not to delay tee times at Congressional by wasting further ado on the peons. No wonder he has tried to sabotage the fed-up Tea Party efforts to save the economy and salvage gainful small-business middle-class America at every turn.

The House should craft and pass over to the Senate a simple bill…defunding all but the most essential operations of government (defense, air traffic control, border security, that sort of thing)for the remainder of the fiscal year, and then call it a day and head home for the holidays and then engage in townhall meetings everywhere and anytime they can.

The Obama Administration is once again trying to assign the blame on anyone else but Obama. What;s the use of even engaging with the idiot?

Or, better yet.

Just pack it in, and head home, and give Obama a nice big F you for Christmas.

We can recover and thrive…but first we have got to get this Nation back to reality.

When there are far more takers than givers, and when the givers are demonized by this President…time to stop playing by his rules.

People will continue to vote for democrats until they get a full taste of who and what the democrats really are.

darwin on December 5, 2012 at 6:47 PM

They have gotten that taste. They just eat so much at a time they never can figure out where that nasty filth came from. That and the fact that when Bush and company ran things, it was the same menu cooked by different chefs.

What is interesting in the article is that the real “millionaires and billionaires,” who make up Obysmal’s major support will be unaffected by the higher federal rates. It is the professional class that will be hardest hit…and they make up the tax base of these blue states.

We have to figure out non-violent means (ie, economic) of separating ourselves from the blue states such that eventual severance of political ties will be a formality. Avoid doing any business in blue states to the best of your ability, cheat on your taxes to the extent you can get away with it, and spend the money in red states.

Does anyone here think there’s any rehabilitating our opposition? Show me the person who thinks JFK Democrats will ever take their party back. They are literally buying more votes every day. We can never compete on that playing field – ever.

People talk about a 2-state solution with Israel and Palestine – why not here? Outside of some normal human recreational activities, what do we have in common with these people anymore? We know why the left wouldn’t want it: they need their producer/tax slaves, but they still need our labor to support their leisure class. The ballot box isn’t working. We have to fight back with our wallets in order to make any progress.

The Count on December 5, 2012 at 6:44 PM

Those in the Socialist states need to get with it and express themselves with their feet. Many have been in denial for years – they need to shake that off.

Those in the free states who deal with businesses in the Socialist states need to find alternative sources for their dealings.

The handwriting is clearly written out on the wall in big red letters.

It stopped working the moment we were demagogued into giving up poll taxes, giving women and African Americans equal rights, and letting kids vote. Each and every one of these measures was believed to be very progressive – and, by the result, it was. It’s just “progressive” turned out to mean something else from what we thought it does…

Committed socialists and stupid people elected an insane man who wants nothing more than to destroy this country and rebuild it in his twisted, sick image. He doesn’t care if the Republicans give him everything he wants he’ll just pretend it’s not enough and demand more.

I don’t think we’re going to last four years. Obama is truly a pyschopath.

Committed socialists and stupid people elected an insane man who wants nothing more than to destroy this country and rebuild it in his twisted, sick image. He doesn’t care if the Republicans give him everything he wants he’ll just pretend it’s not enough and demand more.

I don’t think we’re going to last four years. Obama is truly a pyschopath.

That’s the point. Democrats have no intention of fixing anything. They want it to burn so they can blame Republicans, capitalism, individualism, Christians and Jews. They want people to suffer horribly.

It stopped working the moment we were demagogued into giving up poll taxes, giving women and African Americans equal rights, and letting kids vote. Each and every one of these measures was believed to be very progressive – and, by the result, it was. It’s just “progressive” turned out to mean something else from what we thought it does…

Archivarix on December 5, 2012 at 6:53 PM

I think that’s more the symptom than the problem. Blacks were reliable Republicans until they were bought off by the Great Society. Kids are impressionable and have spent most of their first 18 years of life indoctrinated for 8 hours a day by socialist theoreticians and hollywood culture.

I agree with your tax idea: if you can’t show up with the prior year’s W2 or SS statement in order to vote, you’re just voting others’ money out of their wallets and will invariably vote to maximize its pathway to yours.

That’s the point. Democrats have no intention of fixing anything. They want it to burn so they can blame Republicans, capitalism, individualism, Christians and Jews. They want people to suffer horribly.

Sound familiar? It’s been used many times before.

darwin on December 5, 2012 at 7:02 PM

Weren’t they the ones who articulated the Cloward-Piven strategy?

The left doesn’t give a rip shi… about the people suffering – the last 4 years illustrated that immensely.

Can’t the States run without a federal government? Why are we so concerned with a keeping the federal government running? We can do just fine without them.

astonerii on December 5, 2012 at 7:18 PM

We could certainly live without the congress or the douche squatting in the White House, but maintaining the court hierarchy, common defense, and national currency without a centralized government could be a nuisance.

Let’s be fair. Isn’t that what the left keeps demanding? fairness. Fair share.

Tax everybody at the same rate. All income. All income, not just earned income. Any income. Even that ubiquitous EBT card. if we decide to keep any form of income tax at all.

Might want to look at a consumption tax, paid whenever you purchase something. Do it on a progressive scale, as well. Buy a pair of shoes…OK, that’d be .01% added for Uncle Sugar. But a mansion in the Hollywood Hills, that’s be 25% to Uncle Sugar.

But, at some point, soon, very soon, we’ve got to take back what is left of this nation and try to rebuild it from the ashes, using some simply common sense in the process, and stop this grifter government we’ve been tolerating for far too long.

It stopped working the moment we were demagogued into giving up poll taxes, giving women and African Americans equal rights, and letting kids vote. Each and every one of these measures was believed to be very progressive – and, by the result, it was. It’s just “progressive” turned out to mean something else from what we thought it does…

Archivarix on December 5, 2012 at 6:53 PM

You don’t have to bring racist views into this. The ballot box isn’t working because the Democrats found out how to game it by herding ignorant people to the poles, and the Republicans haven’t. Republicans have to go into the cities and cultivate voters door to door, apartment complex to apartment complex, if they are to win. It has little to do with demographics and almost nothing to do with policy.

You don’t have to bring racist views into this. The ballot box isn’t working because the Democrats found out how to game it by herding ignorant people to the poles, and the Republicans haven’t. Republicans have to go into the cities and cultivate voters door to door, apartment complex to apartment complex, if they are to win. It has little to do with demographics and almost nothing to do with policy.

Count to 10 on December 5, 2012 at 7:50 PM

Your race card was declined, buddy. Not every post that mentions black people negatively is racist. Learn it, or FOAD. Or both.

Republicans let the four genies I listed out of the bottle. Hindsight is always 20/20 but it sure seemed the right thing to do at the time. Of those four, I miss the poll tax most; Africa Americans and women can be educated, kids may be torn out of NEA’s clutches someday, but paupers will always vote themselves money.

You don’t have to bring racist views into this. The ballot box isn’t working because the Democrats found out how to game it by herding ignorant people to the poles, and the Republicans haven’t. Republicans have to go into the cities and cultivate voters door to door, apartment complex to apartment complex, if they are to win. It has little to do with demographics and almost nothing to do with policy.

Count to 10 on December 5, 2012 at 7:50 PM

Yeah, lets not bring racist views into it.

But those ignorant people you are talking about by and large are not whites…

We also know who the people you are talking about cultivating in the cities are. Hint, they are not white.

The person you responded to is right and wrong at the same time. The right to vote should have been left to those who are invested in the system. Business owners who pay taxes and land owners. Right now we have a nation full of government dependents (WOMEN AND MINORITIES making up the majority.)

CARNEY: We’re not going to negotiate over what is a fundamental responsibility of Congress, which is to pay the bills that Congress the major banks and their crooked allies in Washington incurred. It should be part of the deal. It should be done and it should be done without drama.

Let’s be fair. Isn’t that what the left keeps demanding? fairness. Fair share.

Tax everybody at the same rate. All income. All income, not just earned income. Any income. Even that ubiquitous EBT card. if we decide to keep any form of income tax at all.

Might want to look at a consumption tax, paid whenever you purchase something. Do it on a progressive scale, as well. Buy a pair of shoes…OK, that’d be .01% added for Uncle Sugar. But a mansion in the Hollywood Hills, that’s be 25% to Uncle Sugar.

But, at some point, soon, very soon, we’ve got to take back what is left of this nation and try to rebuild it from the ashes, using some simply common sense in the process, and stop this grifter government we’ve been tolerating for far too long.

coldwarrior on December 5, 2012 at 7:30 PM

Yep, fuel the fire.

They wanted the miracle of Marxism, well reap the whirlwind baby!

The socialists are going to steal the people’s property anyway, so what have we got to lose?

As I learned at the knee of my father (although never put into practice) it is a misdemeanor not to file taxes but a felony to falsify your returns. Returns, what a funny name, as if anything gets returned.

Refuse to raise the debt limit. Obama will invoke the debts are never to be not honored clause and raise it himself. House sues we go to the SCOTUS and find out if he’s our King, dictator, whatever or not…get it over with bring it to a head. We’ll go from there. That’s probably the last thing he wants but it would be the best thing for the country.

LET IT BURN! Honestly, it’s the only way that I see to bring sensibility back to the American Public. Give the Dems everything they want! Heck, give them twice what they want! Let them OWN it, ALL of it!!!
Then we can get to work on rebuilding. Does it, or will it require pain, a lot of pain? Yes! But otherwise, unless, and until the idiots who re-voted this guy into office, can actually FEEL the pain of their idiotic decisions, we will never be able to rebuild this country! What used to be, and should be, the greatest country in the world will continue sliding into the abyss, slowly, but surely. So why prolong the pain and anguish?

Facts don’t matter. While I appreciate Mr. Tapper, he is a lone voice from the major networks. Dems know they have the media to completely cover for them. No hard questions will be asked. Only a microphone will be provided for the Dems to lie about why we went over the cliff is all the Repubs fault without risk of follow up.

They know this. They have no risk of consequence….politically. It is all a game. Shameful.

“Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases.”- T Jefferson.

CARNEY: We’re not going to negotiate over what is a fundamental responsibility of Congress, which is to pay the bills that Congress incurred PASS A BUDGET EVERY FISCAL YEAR.

In 2009, Democrats in both the House and Senate BROKE THE LAW by not passing a budget for FY 2010.

In 2010, Democrats in both the House and Senate BROKE THE LAW by not passing a budget for FY 2011.

In 2011, Democrats in the Senate BROKE THE LAW by not passing a budget for FY 2012. The Republicans in teh House did their job, but their budget was ignored by the Democrat Senate.

In 2012, Democrats in the Senate BROKE THE LAW by not passing a budget for FY 2013. The Republicans in teh House did their job, but their budget was ignored by the Democrat Senate.

I think the Democrats have no interest in good faith negotiating. I think they want the fiscal cliff and sequestration, and that has been their game plan since they passed this plan in the first place. I think the Democrats never had any intention at all of following Simpson-Bowles.

Evidently BO has indicated he is willing to ‘go off the cliff’ if he doesn’t get his way (higher taxes for the higher earners).

Boehner should make the statement that since it is apparent that the WH’s analysts have determined that going off the cliff must not be as catastrophic as we all thought, the House GOP is also willing to go off the cliff until BO agrees to spending cuts now.

We have to figure out non-violent means (ie, economic) of separating ourselves from the blue states such that eventual severance of political ties will be a formality. Avoid doing any business in blue states to the best of your ability, cheat on your taxes to the extent you can get away with it, and spend the money in red states.

Does anyone here think there’s any rehabilitating our opposition? Show me the person who thinks JFK Democrats will ever take their party back. They are literally buying more votes every day. We can never compete on that playing field – ever.

People talk about a 2-state solution with Israel and Palestine – why not here? Outside of some normal human recreational activities, what do we have in common with these people anymore? We know why the left wouldn’t want it: they need their producer/tax slaves, but they still need our labor to support their leisure class. The ballot box isn’t working. We have to fight back with our wallets in order to make any progress.

Between them, Barack Obama, Harry Reid, and Nancy Pelosi are holding the country hostage over increasing taxes on the rich to cover less than 2% of projected spending over the next decade.

True.

And if Barack Obama, Harry Reid, and Nancy Pelosi had passed a budget in 2010 for FY 2011 and held spending to the same $ amounts as the FY 2004 Bush-Republican Congress budget, there would have been a $10 Billion SURPLUS in FY 2011.

If Barack Obama, Harry Reid, and Nancy Pelosi had limited FY 2011 spending to the same $2.29 Trillion that Bush and the Republicans produced in FY 2004, then FY 2011 would have had a surplus of $0.01 Trillion ($10 Billion).

No tax increases are helpful to the economy for sure. HOWEVER, the “automatic” spending cuts are our ONLY hope of real spending cuts under this regime. I’m thinking it would be worth it to let it happen. I’ll trade substantial cuts across the board for 90′s era tax rates. And no, I don’t care who gets blame. I think it would be better for the nation over all, and the GOP has done a fine job of losing the public on it’s own.