Name me dominant wrestlers in mma who don't spend vast amounts of time training in all the other disciplines. You will not be a high level submission grappler without having a sound understanding of jiu-jitsu, that is a fact

Why? Why is it wrestlers applying Jiu-jitsu and not vice versa? Considering wrestling is the older and more widespread art...

I just said why wrestlers need to learn BJJ. The guard is a creation of BJJ(AFAIK)... Learning how to negate it,incorporate it, and deal with it is necessary. But that does not mean that all finishes applied by wrestlers are due to studying jiu-jitsu. I already gave an example of Hughes' front headlock on Almeida, a wrestling move that he used and said he gained in wrestling, not in Jiu-jitsu.

Because submissions are not the focal point of wrestling, plain and simple.

Get a wrestler, don't let him train in the other facets of mma, we'll see how effective your wrestling is. Training in all aspects of mma coupled with your dominant skill is what makes it so effective. Wrestling fanboys only want to credit one discipline for their success, but without the use of the other disciplines they would not be nearly as successful, period. Do you believe Hughes does not have vast amounts of knowledge in regards to jiu-jitsu? Barnett as well?

Literally no one is only crediting one aspect except for those of you saying submission knowledge can only come from Jiu-jitsu. I have stated multiple times that BJJ knowledge is necessary due to the guard.

You're allowed to admit that wrestling can finish fights without it somehow making BJJ less important, yknow. Hughes' armbar of GSP? A sub he knew due to his knowledge of BJJ, due to the positions involved. His front headlock of Almeida? A submission he knew and learned from wrestling practice, long before he did BJJ.

Name me dominant wrestlers in mma who don't spend vast amounts of time training in all the other disciplines. You will not be a high level submission grappler without having a sound understanding of jiu-jitsu, that is a fact

Why? Why is it wrestlers applying Jiu-jitsu and not vice versa? Considering wrestling is the older and more widespread art...

I just said why wrestlers need to learn BJJ. The guard is a creation of BJJ(AFAIK)... Learning how to negate it,incorporate it, and deal with it is necessary. But that does not mean that all finishes applied by wrestlers are due to studying jiu-jitsu. I already gave an example of Hughes' front headlock on Almeida, a wrestling move that he used and said he gained in wrestling, not in Jiu-jitsu.

Add the Korean zombies finish of Leonard Garcia, the "twister" is a guillotine in the wrestling room.

Technically true, but I believe he learned that from Eddie Bravo videos and Bravo teaches it in a BJJ context, TKZ didn't learn it in the wrestling room... So that kinda muddies the water in regards to the twister :/

Eddie can also teach a double leg takedown in his videos, doesn't make it bjj.

jesus christ did someone really post examples of the 1 in 1000 TD/ slam KOs to cite that wrestling finishes fights? wow. And again, Griffin, yes im sure i know enough about all facets of mixed martial arts including wrestling to understand that some obscure forms of wrestling allow finishing holds. great. never stated otherwise. what i did say was when most we and paticularly Jones references "wrestling" we/ he are referencing all aspects of grappling excluding submissions. we both know that. and since this OP was about jones statement why cant we stick to what the fuck he meant instead of talking about c-a-c-c and the other fringe wrestling sciences which of the entire "wrestling" pie (as in the wrestling that goes down on a daily basis/ the sport most people understand is being referenced when someone says things like "olympic wrestler/ hs wrestler/ college wrestler/ wrestling room/ wrestling shoes/ and most any and every fucking example u can think of) comprises MAYBE 1%. pointing out the fucking exception that proves the rule isnt surprising to see on the UG of course but its the first ive noticed u pulling that kind of weak shit. just admit it. u use that word just like i do and jones did, to reference non-sub grappling. so basically jones said "the non-submission aspects of grappling dont involve submissions" and u pipe up with, "even though i know what u mean, lets fucking argue over the definition of something thats fairly clear" and get off my nuts bro. scream your "joined date" from the roof tops cool kid. and if you really feel that all never banned UGers are great posters and no banned UGers could be good posters ur being a bit naive

Banned 5 times in a few months was actually what I said. If you know anything about Thiaguy, you'll know why he shouldn't be judging other posters. Context, bro

I'm done arguing with you because no, my definition of wrestling does not match yours nor is it going to, regardless of how you seem to think I mean wrestling when I normally speak of it.

jesus christ did someone really post examples of the 1 in 1000 TD/ slam KOs to cite that wrestling finishes fights? wow. And again, Griffin, yes im sure i know enough about all facets of mixed martial arts including wrestling to understand that some obscure forms of wrestling allow finishing holds. great. never stated otherwise. what i did say was when most we and paticularly Jones references "wrestling" we/ he are referencing all aspects of grappling excluding submissions. we both know that. and since this OP was about jones statement why cant we stick to what the fuck he meant instead of talking about c-a-c-c and the other fringe wrestling sciences which of the entire "wrestling" pie (as in the wrestling that goes down on a daily basis/ the sport most people understand is being referenced when someone says things like "olympic wrestler/ hs wrestler/ college wrestler/ wrestling room/ wrestling shoes/ and most any and every fucking example u can think of) comprises MAYBE 1%. pointing out the fucking exception that proves the rule isnt surprising to see on the UG of course but its the first ive noticed u pulling that kind of weak shit. just admit it. u use that word just like i do and jones did, to reference non-sub grappling. so basically jones said "the non-submission aspects of grappling dont involve submissions" and u pipe up with, "even though i know what u mean, lets fucking argue over the definition of something thats fairly clear" and get off my nuts bro. scream your "joined date" from the roof tops cool kid. and if you really feel that all never banned UGers are great posters and no banned UGers could be good posters ur being a bit naive

If there was any doubt about how stupid you are, reading your 4th grade spelling, punctuation, and syntax did away with it. Your logic is on par with a potato rolling down a hill.

Someone said wrestling doesn't WIN fights. I not only proved it, but proved wrestling also FINISHES fights. Why does that bother you? Stuck under side control for an entire workout by a junior high school wrestler?

jesus christ did someone really post examples of the 1 in 1000 TD/ slam KOs to cite that wrestling finishes fights? wow. And again, Griffin, yes im sure i know enough about all facets of mixed martial arts including wrestling to understand that some obscure forms of wrestling allow finishing holds. great. never stated otherwise. what i did say was when most we and paticularly Jones references "wrestling" we/ he are referencing all aspects of grappling excluding submissions. we both know that. and since this OP was about jones statement why cant we stick to what the fuck he meant instead of talking about c-a-c-c and the other fringe wrestling sciences which of the entire "wrestling" pie (as in the wrestling that goes down on a daily basis/ the sport most people understand is being referenced when someone says things like "olympic wrestler/ hs wrestler/ college wrestler/ wrestling room/ wrestling shoes/ and most any and every fucking example u can think of) comprises MAYBE 1%. pointing out the fucking exception that proves the rule isnt surprising to see on the UG of course but its the first ive noticed u pulling that kind of weak shit. just admit it. u use that word just like i do and jones did, to reference non-sub grappling. so basically jones said "the non-submission aspects of grappling dont involve submissions" and u pipe up with, "even though i know what u mean, lets fucking argue over the definition of something thats fairly clear" and get off my nuts bro. scream your "joined date" from the roof tops cool kid. and if you really feel that all never banned UGers are great posters and no banned UGers could be good posters ur being a bit naive

If there was any doubt about how stupid you are, reading your 4th grade spelling, punctuation, and syntax did away with it. Your logic is on par with a potato rolling down a hill.

Someone said wrestling doesn't WIN fights. I not only proved it, but proved wrestling also FINISHES fights. Why does that bother you? Stuck under side control for an entire workout by a junior high school wrestler?

By all means, join the discussion instead of cowardly name calling. Is the subject too complex? Listen, I'm "a ass" (oh the ironing) so you should destroy my point easily. If you can't destroy the logic of "a ass" then where are you on that food chain?

Name me dominant wrestlers in mma who don't spend vast amounts of time training in all the other disciplines. You will not be a high level submission grappler without having a sound understanding of jiu-jitsu, that is a fact

Why? Why is it wrestlers applying Jiu-jitsu and not vice versa? Considering wrestling is the older and more widespread art...

I just said why wrestlers need to learn BJJ. The guard is a creation of BJJ(AFAIK)... Learning how to negate it,incorporate it, and deal with it is necessary. But that does not mean that all finishes applied by wrestlers are due to studying jiu-jitsu. I already gave an example of Hughes' front headlock on Almeida, a wrestling move that he used and said he gained in wrestling, not in Jiu-jitsu.

Add the Korean zombies finish of Leonard Garcia, the "twister" is a guillotine in the wrestling room.

Technically true, but I believe he learned that from Eddie Bravo videos and Bravo teaches it in a BJJ context, TKZ didn't learn it in the wrestling room... So that kinda muddies the water in regards to the twister :/

Eddie can also teach a double leg takedown in his videos, doesn't make it bjj.

Yes, but the set up KZ used was with his back on the mat, you wont learn that transition in wrestling

Name me dominant wrestlers in mma who don't spend vast amounts of time training in all the other disciplines. You will not be a high level submission grappler without having a sound understanding of jiu-jitsu, that is a fact

Why? Why is it wrestlers applying Jiu-jitsu and not vice versa? Considering wrestling is the older and more widespread art...

I just said why wrestlers need to learn BJJ. The guard is a creation of BJJ(AFAIK)... Learning how to negate it,incorporate it, and deal with it is necessary. But that does not mean that all finishes applied by wrestlers are due to studying jiu-jitsu. I already gave an example of Hughes' front headlock on Almeida, a wrestling move that he used and said he gained in wrestling, not in Jiu-jitsu.

Add the Korean zombies finish of Leonard Garcia, the "twister" is a guillotine in the wrestling room.

Technically true, but I believe he learned that from Eddie Bravo videos and Bravo teaches it in a BJJ context, TKZ didn't learn it in the wrestling room... So that kinda muddies the water in regards to the twister :/

Eddie can also teach a double leg takedown in his videos, doesn't make it bjj.

Yes, but the set up KZ used was with his back on the mat, you wont learn that transition in wrestling

Actually it was set up from back mount with one hook in, garcia scrambled from that position and KZ hit the guillotine with his left side on the mat. Yes I called the twister a guillotine, cause that's what it is.

Name me dominant wrestlers in mma who don't spend vast amounts of time training in all the other disciplines. You will not be a high level submission grappler without having a sound understanding of jiu-jitsu, that is a fact

Why? Why is it wrestlers applying Jiu-jitsu and not vice versa? Considering wrestling is the older and more widespread art...

I just said why wrestlers need to learn BJJ. The guard is a creation of BJJ(AFAIK)... Learning how to negate it,incorporate it, and deal with it is necessary. But that does not mean that all finishes applied by wrestlers are due to studying jiu-jitsu. I already gave an example of Hughes' front headlock on Almeida, a wrestling move that he used and said he gained in wrestling, not in Jiu-jitsu.

Add the Korean zombies finish of Leonard Garcia, the "twister" is a guillotine in the wrestling room.

Technically true, but I believe he learned that from Eddie Bravo videos and Bravo teaches it in a BJJ context, TKZ didn't learn it in the wrestling room... So that kinda muddies the water in regards to the twister :/

Eddie can also teach a double leg takedown in his videos, doesn't make it bjj.

Yes, but the set up KZ used was with his back on the mat, you wont learn that transition in wrestling

Secondly, that transition may not be taught at the East Schmuckatelly Falls High School, but I didn't know a wrestler that couldn't hit that move just as KZ did.

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