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of the poor and oppressed...rescue the weak and
needy." Psalm
82:3b-4aanswers@peacemakers.net

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a member of Christ's Body-The
CHURCH, PeaceMakers.net is empowered by God's Holy Spirit in practicing a
dynami witness for Jesus Christ that builds the Body of Christ and attracts
th attention of a lost world through; Biblical Community, Biblical
Instruction Biblical Counseling and Biblical Peacemaking; that invites
reconciliatio of mankind to God, mankind to themselves and mankind to
others...Please use Biblical caution- "...they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily whether those things were so. "Acts 17:11 Also note:
PeaceMaker does NOT necessairly endorse all parts of the materials or
individuals
on our sites NOR does a person, publisher, etc. inclusion on our site
in
anyway imply their endorsement of PeaceMakers.

Peacemaking:Restoring / Establishing a Loving Relationship with God and authentic
bretheranas HIS witness and invitition to
righteousness.

"Teacher,
which is the greatest commandment in the Law? Jesus
replied: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with
all
your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and
greatest
commandment. And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as
yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two
commandments." Matt 22:36-40

Unless the keystone of peacemaking is to serve and glorify God and His
witness, it's merely selfishness
cloaking a heart of greed, while attempting to manipulate God and His
Word for evil gain. It's selfishness, self-willed, pride,
ambition, enmity, lusts, hatefulnessand our Lord will expose
such spiritual corruption, while blessing those in holiness, great love, infinite compassion,
meekness, purity, truthfulnesshungering and thristing for
righteousness.

A word of CAUTION:
Biblical peacemaking is very dangerous...

Charles Sprrgeon, "Wherever this abiding love of truth can be discovered, we are
bound to excercise out
love. No narrow circle can contain
our gracious sympathies, wide as the election of
grace must be
our communion of heart. Much of error may be mingled with
truth received, let us war
with the error but still love the brother
for the measure of truth which we see in
Him; above all let us love
and spread the truth
ourselves.

Matthew 5:9-12Blessed are the peacemakers: for
they shall be called the children of God. 10 Blessed are they
which
are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of
heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and
shall
say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. 12
Rejoice,
and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so
persecuted
they the prophets which were before you.

Matthew 7:1-6 Matthew 7:1 Judge
not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye
judge, ye
shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to
you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy
brother's
eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4
Or
how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine
eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5 Thou
hypocrite, first
cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly
to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. 6 Give not
that which
is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest
they
trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Ezekiel 8:6 And
He said to me, “Son of man, do you see what they are doing,
the great abominations
which the house of Israel are committing here, so that I would be far
from
My sanctuary? But yet you will see still greater
abominations.”

Ephesians 5:11 -13Do
not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even
expose
them; 12 for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are
done
by them in secret. 13 But all things become visible when they are
exposed
by the light, for everything that becomes visible is light.

When God uncovers the heart of
mankind they will either Biblically REPENT or they will do all within
their
power to DESTROY you! e.g. lies, evil speaking, maliciousness, slander,
gossip, false witness, deception, and more in an attempt to hide their
unrepentant sins while destroying the peacemaker.

A Few Examples:

A Pastor: As a boy
abused by is mother, wet the bed, played with fire, and into adulthood
would buy kittens and spend hours maiming, harming, torturing them then
drown them to death. While a minister, would buy pornography and
frequent
public parks to sexually relieve himself. The horror of having
"confessed"
and seeing these are warning signs of serial killers, was so
overwhelming
to him it opened the flood gates of theological rage and abuse. Now claims he was in an abusivie group (PeaceMakers)..A Missionary: His
childhood rage grew so intense as an adult, in a secular position as a
public authority, he was publicly sanctioned. Later he would take his
skills
on to the mission field. His rage had devastating effects
upon his
children. When addressed for his rage and mistreatment of his wife, he
became so embittered, he projected his rage upon those who tried to
Biblically
care for him and his family. (He wants to return to the mission field)

A Denominational Leader: As
a youth pastor, sexually abused two teenage girls. After the first
teen,
now an adult confronted him, he supposedly confessed, went for
counseling,
pledged she was the only one. A few years later the second
teenager
now an adult, through PeaceMakers, pursued Church Discipline, not
knowing
there was another. Now as a Minister of one of the largest churches in
the denomination, the church and denominational leadership closed
ranks,
put together a wimpy, generalized "I'm sorry" announcement, sang a song
and all is well. Next, on their website was a new service of
reporting
and recording pastors who sexually abused children.
PeaceMakers asked
the service if this man was listed, as their page had no indication of
his multiple sexual abuse. Quickly the service was removed.
( Currently a Pastor: CONVERGE Worldwide-previously known as Baptist General Conference)

A Para-Church-Peacemaking Ministry: A
young lady came to a Bible study and asked for help. She was having
emotional
and spiritual difficulty responding to her mother who once worked at a
“christian publisher,” while having an affair with
a local Bible College
professor who taught courses on Church Discipline. All
attempts to
address the couple, who each divorced their spouses and married, met
with
refusal. A few years later while I was at the national
conference
of now named Peacemaker Ministries. I heard a report of a man who
was exceptionally “gifted”. Upon seeking
to know this person it was
discovered it was this same professor and I gave witness to the failure
of Biblical Discipline/Reconciliation. I was told by the then leadership to
be quite or leave the conference.
I immediately
left. All atempts to address these and other issues with this
organization failed.

Richard Owen RobertsWhere Judgment Begins

We live in a unique time, a
confusing time. We live in a time when it is almost impossible to tell
the true Church from the professing church. There has never been a time
in the past when there were literally millions of people who could tell
you the day and the hour they accepted Christ, but who live for self
and Satan.

There are multitudes of
people who honestly believe they are Christians because they’ve been
baptized—many of them because of infant baptism, some because of adult
baptism. They are depending on baptismal regeneration. Then there is
the incredible array of people who are clinging to some decision they
have made, and who have been falsely informed by their own leaders that
they are indeed children of God. They are hanging their eternal welfare
on decisional regeneration.

The Bible portrays
regeneration by the Holy Spirit (John 3:5-8). Those people who truly
are children of God have been born of the Spirit, and there is a world
of difference between the Spirit’s regeneration and baptismal or
decisional regeneration. Every time we add another person who knows
nothing of the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit to the ranks of
church members and professed Christians, we add to the confusion, and
further decline morally and spiritually in the land and in the world.

Let me put this question to
you: does Jesus Christ save from hell? Did He come to save from hell?
Many of you will remember that when the angel spoke to Joseph, he said
to him, “Thou shalt call His Name Jesus, for He shall save His people
from their sin” (Matt. 1:21). Some of you may be guilty of having
encouraged many to believe that it is possible to be saved from hell
without ever having been saved from sin. I am regularly encountering
substantial numbers of people who, if they speak honestly from their
own heart, make it crystal clear, “I don’t even want to be saved from
sin. I intend to live in sin, but I’m glad I’ve been saved from hell.”

Have you ever considered
what a treacherous act against Almighty God it is to pretend that He is
so utterly absurd that He saves people from hell but not from sin? Why
does hell exist? Without any question, hell exists because there are
those who will not repent and believe. To turn around then and suggest
that out of a great heart of love and compassion, God saves people from
the penalty but leaves them with the problem is an insult against our
God.

Jesus Christ came to save
people from their sin. I believe many of us need to learn to make a
very careful distinction in our own thinking and surely in our
presentation of truth to others, between sin as a one-way ticket to
hell and sin as a thief of God’s glory. There is a common statement
that is made within the church that repentance is a change of mind.
That statement never seemed quite sufficient to me. I have come to
realize something very consequential in that regard. True repentance
means an exchanged mind. The unrepentant have the mind-set of the
world. But the repentant have the mind-set of the Spirit. When we come
to Jesus Christ, having been born of the Spirit of God, in repentance,
we receive a new mind. We’re not interested any longer in seeing what
things we can get away with. We don’t want to walk as close to the
precipice as possible and just hope we won’t fall over the cliff. We
have the mind-set of the Spirit.

We need to learn to
distinguish in our thinking and in our living, and surely in our
presentation of the gospel to others, between sin as a one-way ticket
to hell and sin as the thief of God’s glory. God did not create man to
save man from hell. God created man to glorify Him and then to enjoy
Him forever. You can’t break the two apart. The notion that you can
enjoy God forever and refuse or fail to bring Him glory in this life,
is indeed absurd.

With those thoughts in mind,
let us turn to I Peter 4. First we will deal with the greater context
found in this passage, verses 1 to 11, and then deal with the context,
verses 12 through 16 and 19, and then come to the text, verses 17 and
18.

In verse 1 and verse 2 we
have the matter of suffering set in front of us as a declaration of its
purpose: “Therefore, since Christ has suffered in the flesh, arm
yourselves also with the same purpose, because he who has suffered in
the flesh has ceased from sin, so as to live the rest of the time in
the flesh no longer for the lusts of men, but for the will of God.”

Why does God allow His own
children to suffer? We are informed in verse 1 that Christ Himself
suffered in the flesh. It is perfectly reasonable and understandable
that we should suffer as well. I take it as a given that if my Savior
suffered, it is my task to arm myself with the same purpose, to realize
that God is at work and has a purpose for His people. We are informed
in this passage that He who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from
sin. You may not fully understand that statement or other statements in
this passage, but isn’t it perfectly clear that there is a purpose in
suffering and that at least part of that purpose is to bring us to that
place where sin is not a ruling factor in our lives, where a great
focus change has occurred so that we’re not concerned about hell? We’re
not worried about going there. If we could go to hell for the glory of
God, we would be happy in doing so. The thing that matters to us is the
glory of God. If suffering somehow brings the glory of God, then I’m
all for it.

Look now at verse 3: “For
the time already past is sufficient for you to have carried out the
desire of the Gentiles, having pursued a course of sensuality, lusts,
drunkenness, carousals, drinking parties and abominable idolatries.”
You have already wasted a sufficient portion of your life. Time is too
short to waste any more. The time is already sufficient for you to have
carried out the desires of the Gentiles, having pursued a course of
sensuality, lusts, drunkenness, carousals, drinking parties, and
abominable idolatries. You don’t have another second to waste in that
direction. Whatever days you have left, many or few, must be devoted to
the high calling of God that you have in Christ Jesus. You can’t allow
some grievous disappointment to push you again into a cycle of moral
and spiritual decline. Whatever time you have left must be redeemed for
the glory of God. That’s why you were created. You’ve lost countless
opportunities already to bring Him glory. Don’t lose another opportunity

Look at verses 4 and 5: “And
in all this, they are surprised that you do not run with them into the
same excess of dissipation, and they malign you; but they shall give
account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.” Is
anybody surprised when you won’t run with them? Has anybody maligned
you? You don’t fit in. You don’t belong. Part of the sadness of the
hour is that Christians fit beautifully into the world. Nobody’s
troubled by their presence, by their conduct, not even troubled by
their witness. Our changed lives should baffle them, and when they do
not, we have a reason to be on our faces before God, seeking that
repentance which results in the exchanged mind, so the mind of Christ
is dominant in our lives.

The next matter: We’ll have
to give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the
dead. They will; you will; I will… There is no escaping our
responsibilities before God.

Five Matters Requiring Attention

There is an important
arrangement of truth in verses 7 through 11. “The end of all things is
at hand,” says the inspired apostle. There are certain things that the
believer is required to be. I see five matters in these verses that
require our distinct attention.

Verse 8: “Keep fervent in your love for one another.”

Verse 9: “Be hospitable to
one another without complaint.” It is easy at a conference like this.
We have time to be kind one to another, but what about at home?

Verse 10: “As each one has
received a special gift, employ it in serving one another, as good
stewards of the manifold grace of God.” Some of us think of stewardship
in terms of money, and no doubt if you began to write down those things
that fall on the list under the manifold grace of God, money would
appear on the list, but it would be a minor matter in the whole lot.
Money is something that is ordinary. It is something we call a common
grace. We must not overlook the manifold grace of God, special graces
of the believer that require good stewardship.

Verse 11: “Whoever speaks,
let him speak, as it were, the utterances of God.” Preachers, when
people hear you, do they say, “That is much more than a pastor speaking
to us; that is the voice of God”? Some of you are in trouble in
churches and people are always giving you a hard time. Learn to speak
the utterances of God, and a lot of people who are bold in your face
now will become fearful. Every man when he speaks ought to speak with
the fear of God hanging over him and over his auditors.

And the next instruction
says, “Whoever serves, let him do so as by the strength which God
supplies.” All these things that God might be glorified through Jesus
Christ to whom belongs the dominion forever and ever.

The Immediate Context

Now, the more immediate
context, starting at verse 12: “Beloved, do not be surprised at the
fiery ordeal among you….” What is he referring to? Look at verses 17
and 18: “It is time for judgment to begin with the household of God;
and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who
do not obey the gospel of God? And if it is with difficulty that the
righteous is saved, what will become of the godless man and the sinner?”

Verse 13: “…to the degree
that you share the sufferings of Christ, keep on rejoicing; so that
also at the revelation of His glory, you may rejoice with exultation.”
In verse 14 we are called to consider these facts: “If you are reviled
for the Name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory
and of God rests upon you.”

It would be foolish to
suppose that every Christian suffers the same degree of persecution.
Our place in life is going to have some contributing factors in terms
of degree of persecution, but we have it plain here that you are
blessed when you are reviled for the name of Christ, “…because the
Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you.”

Verse 15: But “by no means
let any of you suffer as a murderer, or thief, or evildoer, or a
troublesome meddler…” You begin to sense the context. Do you see how
verses 17 and 18 fit in? Suffering as a Christian (verse 16) is not
something about which we ought to be ashamed. Rather in the name of our
dear Lord Jesus, let us bring glory to God.

Verse 19: “Therefore, let
those also who suffer according to the will of God entrust their souls
to a faithful Creator in doing what is right.” So no matter how hard it
is to be saved, let us get on with the work for which we were called,
to the life to which we were born of the Spirit of God.

It Is Time for Judgment

Let’s take the text now.
Verse 17: “It is time for judgment to begin with the household of God.”
Some of us have a very inadequate understanding of Scripture because we
have a very inadequate understanding of judgment. I’m regularly
encountering people in the church, who, when the word judgment is used,
think usually in terms of the future—like the Great White Throne
Judgment. This passage is not talking about something in the future.
When the Bible speaks about the judgment of God, we need to be certain
whether it is talking about something eschatological or something for
the moment. In this passage, the judgment that is under consideration
is something that occurs on a day by day basis.

“It is time for judgment…”
That was written a long time ago, and Peter was sure that it was an
appropriate time for judgment then. It is even more appropriate now.
There is simply no escaping the fact that part and parcel of being a
true believer is the issue of judgment. A major reason why we so
desperately need revival is that the biblical subject of judgment has
been set aside and treated as a matter of inconsequence for the
believer.

But not only is the timing
of judgment called to our attention here, but also the subjects of
judgment are clearly pinpointed. As noted already, the place where
judgment must begin: “It is time for judgment to begin with the
household of God.” In actual fact, if one has a very literal
translation, they know that what this passage says is that the time has
come for judgment to begin from the household of God. It is not
something that is contained within the household of faith. It is
something that begins there and moves on out. That is a very important
aspect of the teaching of this passage.

We need to observe that the
word under consideration here is judgment, not punishment. Christ
already bore your punishment. The world is facing judgment in the sense
of penalty. The judgment of the believers described here is for the
purpose of refinement, purification. We can be greatly moved in a
conference like this and set our hearts to be more pure. We may need
some reminders in the days to come, and the Lord is going to use His
judgments as reminders and aids.

When we’re speaking of
judgments that are concurrent with sin, we need to be thinking in three
realms. First, every believer needs to learn to judge himself. The
reason why we get such a pileup of iniquity within the church is
because so many believers have failed to judge themselves.

Secondly, we must also think
in terms of the church as the judge. It is God’s plan that each church
should judge its own people. You can barely say that before someone
says, “My Bible says, ‘Judge not lest ye be judged.’” My Bible says,
“Judge righteous judgment” (John 7:24). It says, “With what judgment
you judge, you shall be judged” (Matt. 7:2). There is no hint in the
Bible that we are not to judge. We dare not judge unfairly. We must not
be more severe with others than we are with ourselves. So when we are
thinking of judgment concurrent with sin, we are thinking of the
individual judging himself; we’re thinking in terms of the church
judging the individual that won’t judge himself. And obviously we are
thinking in terms of God. If the individual won’t judge himself and
that individual’s church won’t judge him, God will.

Some of you pastors, if
you’re going to follow through on your engagement with God this week,
are going to have to go home and exercise some judgments, first, on
yourself. When you are right in every realm, then you’re going to have
to deal with some of those people in your church who need godly,
gracious, loving, tender judgment. Judgment must begin with the
household of faith.

Many of us are familiar with
the passage of 1 Corinthians 11, starting with verse 27: “Therefore
whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy
manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. But let
a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the
cup. For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself,
if he does not judge the body rightly. For this reason many among you
are weak and sick and a number sleep. But if we judged ourselves
rightly, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are
disciplined by the Lord in order that we may not be condemned along
with the world.”

If perpetually you will not
judge yourself, there is strong reason to suppose that you’re going to
be judged along with the world because the repentant person who has the
exchanged mind, has no interest in sin. Oh, he fails; he commits sin.
He may work terrible iniquity, but he has the mind-set of the Spirit
and he judges himself with severity lest he be judged along with the
world. In I Corinthians 5:5, Paul is dealing with the immorality in the
Corinthian Church and he sums it up by saying, “I have decided to
deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh that his
spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.” My brothers in
ministry, you in all likelihood have people in your church who need
judgment so that their spirit may be chastened and their soul may be
saved.

I want to give seven
biblical examples of judgment. Before I do, I want to give you these
summary kind of biblical statements. The first I am reading from Exodus
19:21: “The Lord spoke to Moses, ‘Go down, warn the people, lest they
break through to the Lord to gaze, and many of them perish. And also
let the priests who come near to the Lord consecrate themselves, lest
the Lord break out against them.’” That is what I want you to have in
mind as we pursue this subject further: “Lest the Lord break out among
them.”

If I won’t judge myself, and
my church doesn’t have the courage to judge me, I warn you, the Lord
will break out among us! The Lord already has broken out among us!
We’ve been seeing the hand of God in judgment for years now. There has
been the withdrawal of the manifest presence of God. I mention
Jeremiah, chapter 13, how that God, when He is grieved with the
wickedness of His people when they will not judge themselves and one
another, turns them over to a state of spiritual drunkenness. The
judgments of God are manifold. Judge yourself. Judge appropriately
others, lest the Lord break out among you.

Listen to these solemn words
in Hebrews 12:25: “See to it that you do not refuse Him who is
speaking. For if those did not escape when they refused him who warned
them on earth, much less shall we escape who turn away from Him who
warns from heaven.” The words cited a while ago, “lest the Lord break
out among you”—were words spoken on earth, but take care lest the voice
of God from heaven warns, for our God is a consuming fire. Is it any
wonder that the psalmist said in Psalm 119:26, “My flesh trembles for
fear of thee, and I am afraid of thy judgments.”

Let us again look at the
text in verses 17 and 18: “Let judgment begin with the household of God
and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome of those who
do not obey the Gospel of God? And if it is with difficulty that the
righteous are saved”—or your version may say, “if the righteous are
scarcely saved…” That seems to imply: if they are just saved by the
skin of their teeth, if they just barely make it. Would that not be a
terrible statement against Christ? Is Christ’s atoning work barely
sufficient? No, it is altogether adequate. It is superabundant in its
ability to save any and all. This passage is not dealing with believers
just barely making it into the eternal Kingdom.

Look at the wording: “If the
righteous…” This text is suggesting: if those who have been made
righteous, if those already justified, are still being saved with
difficulty…. What does it mean? Well, it’s hard going judging yourself
day in and day out, month after month, year after year, unceasingly
judging yourself. It is even harder to judge others righteously. If the
church will not judge itself, if judgment does not begin in the
household of faith, the question is asked, what hope is there for the
ungodly and the sinner? Do you realize the contribution the church has
made to the eternal death of the unbelieving world, by our refusal to
judge ourselves? By the refusal of the church to judge its people, we
have made it increasingly difficult when it is already difficult
enough, for the ungodly and the sinners to judge themselves.

Seven Illustrations

There are seven
illustrations which are extremely consequential. The first is found in
Leviticus 9 and 10. God had been meeting His people in a profoundly
powerful fashion, and then two of Aaron’s sons wanted to get in on the
act. We read, “Now Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took their
respective firepans, and after putting fire in them, placed incense on
it and offered strange fire before the Lord, which He had not commanded
them. And fire came out from the presence of the Lord and consumed
them, and they died before the Lord. Then Moses said to Aaron, ‘It is
what the Lord spoke saying, “By those who come near me I will be
treated as holy, and before all the people I will be honored.”‘” These
two brothers took strange fire. Somebody wants to know, “Were they
really believers?” How do I know? They were sons of Aaron and they were
in the priesthood. God demands that we all without any exceptions treat
Him as holy, and God insists that before all the people we honor the
Lord.

Some present the strange
fire of jokes in the pulpit. Some use as illustrations stuff from the
television the night before, and while they are there to call people
from the world, they’re feeding them the world, when they’re supposed
to be feeding them the Word of God. Strange fire.

God judged Moses for his
loss of self-control. In the last verses of Deuteronomy, chapter 32 we
read, “The Lord spoke to Moses that very same day, saying, go up to
this mountain of the Abarim, Mount Nebo, which is in the land of Moab
opposite Jericho, and look at the land of Canaan, which I am giving to
the sons of Israel for a possession. Then die on the mountain where you
ascend, and be gathered to your people, as Aaron your brother died on
Mount Hor and was gathered to his people, because you broke faith with
me…”

What did Moses do? God had
said to him in the midst of a murmuring people, “Speak to the rock”
(Num. 20:8). But Moses was in an agitated spirit. He let the mean
spiritedness and murmuring attitudes of the people touch him. So he
grabbed hold of the rod and whacked the rock, and judgment fell on
Moses. In Numbers 20:12 there is a powerful statement about this, and
God said to Moses, “At this place, at the Waters of Meribah, where you
were supposed to maintain my holiness before the people, you didn’t
maintain it. And now, Moses, I want you to understand, I’m going to
maintain it. But I’ll maintain it at your expense.”

People who read these
passages in Numbers and Deuteronomy ask, “Are you suggesting that Moses
went to hell?” No, I’m not suggesting he went to hell. But that is no
relief for anyone who has a change of mind, whose mind-set is the glory
of God. If I steal from the glory of God, that’s worse to the believer
than going to hell, because the purpose for my existence has been
defeated when I sin and rob God of His glory. May we have a renewed
realization of our duty to maintain God’s holiness before the people
and to uphold His glory before all, and may our heart be set to
maintain it so that God is not forced to maintain it at our expense.
It’s time for judgment to begin in the household of faith.

The third illustration is in
Judges, chapters 13-16—the account of Samson. His birth was announced
by angels. His parents were informed that he was to be a Nazarite from
the womb, that he was to drink no strong wine, that he was to eat no
unclean thing, and that his hair was not to be shaved. We read of times
when the Spirit of God came upon him, but most of us remember that
season in Samson’s life when he fooled around with Delilah. Delilah
made him sleep on her knees. She called a man to shave off the seven
locks of his hair and she said, “The Philistines are upon you!” He woke
from his sleep and roused himself, intending to go out and shake
himself as before, but he didn’t know the Spirit of the Lord had left
him. I’m afraid lest some preacher here be in that circumstance of not
knowing that the Spirit of the Lord has already left him. It is time
for judgment to begin in the household of faith.

Place in your mind the story
of Eli and his sons. The priest Eli grew grossly fat by eating the
things his sons were forbidden to touch. Then came that day when he sat
on his stool and news came that the ark of God had been taken by the
Philistines, and this priest, Eli, fell backward off his stool and
broke his neck There was not a man of his descendants who lived to any
age or who ever occupied that glorious position he held. He didn’t
judge himself, and God was forced to judge him.

Think of David. There is a
long account of David in 1 Chronicles, chapters 13 through 17, and then
a much shorter account in 2 Samuel, chapter 6, when David sought to
bring the ark of God back to Jerusalem. A boy reached up to steady the
ark when it hit the rough place in the road, and God struck the boy
down. David was angry and he called the place “Perezuzzah”—the Lord has
made a breech on us. Why? Neither David nor the priest had judged
themselves. David wanted to bring the Ark of God home, but he didn’t go
to the Scriptures to find out how to do it. Instead of carrying it on
the shoulders of the Kohites, they built a new cart and carried it the
way the Philistines did.

David did not maintain God’s
holiness among the people. God had to maintain it at David’s expense.
David was not struck dead. It was Uzzah. That’s one of the amazing
things about God. It may be someone near you who gets struck down
because of your sin. God may have some higher purpose for you, as he
had for David.

A sixth illustration is the
King of Judah, Uzziah. He was 16 years of age when he became king. In
his early days he did everything right in the sight of the Lord. God
blessed him, and we read, “When he became strong, his heart was lifted
up with pride.” He wouldn’t judge himself. God had to judge him. When
he was in the Temple misbehaving, doing something he had no right to
do, leprosy appeared on his forehead, and his kingly rule was over (2
Chron. 26:16-23).

Turn to Acts 5 and read
afresh the story of Ananias and Sapphira. They agreed together to
deceive the Church and the Lord. Brothers and Sisters, it is time for
judgment to begin in the household of faith. It will be with great
difficulty that we are saved, but if we choose the easy road instead of
the hard road of holiness, what will happen to the ungodly and sinners?
What will happen is happening! They are dying by the millions and a
powerless Church under the judgment of God is unable to help them.

Is there some area of your life that needs judgment? Let us bow before God and judge ourselves and put away sin.

There are many more example from
every walk of life and every "Christian" organization PeaceMakers has
sought
to bring God's Peace and Reconcilation. Compare
these examples using the "Eight Steps To Complete Forgiveness"
and Thomas Watson's The Beatitudes: Peaceableness; Spurgeon's
Blessed are the Peacemakers (links below)
bill

"1-2
The people's cry of anguish (3:24-25) is now
answered by the Lord with
an assurance of blessing when they do return to him. There is a vast
difference between perfunctory repentance and heartfelt restoration to
God. If Judah would truly repent, it must be to God alone (v.1).
Furthermore, they must really rid themselves of their detestable
things, their idols. Evidently they had not yet done this. Moreover, if
the people will remain steadfast (on their oath in the name of the
Lord) in the essential qualities of truth, justice, and righteousness,
then their example will profoundly affect the nations (v.2). Judah's
conversion will herald blessing for the nations. To swear by God's name
involves recognition of him as Lord. Oaths in the name of other gods
were not to be sworn by them. When the nations are being blessed, the
Abrahamic blessing is being realized (cf. Gen 12:3; 18:18; 22:18; 26:4;
28:14; see also Isa 2:3; Zech 8:20-23). The very name of Israel will
become a formula of blessing.

3-4 Jeremiah now uses two
figures to show the nation's need of spiritual renewal: one from
agriculture and the other from physiology. He exhorts the people of
Judah to break up their neglected and untilled hearts, which had become
as hard as an uncultivated field (v.3). No farmer will sow seed on
unplowed ground. So the plow of repentance and obedience was needed to
remove the outer layer of weeds and thorns that had resulted from
idolatry. Otherwise, thorns would choke the newly sown seed (Hos
10:12). The very foundations of the nation's spiritual life needed
tending, even restructuring.

Again, Jeremiah calls for
repentance—this time under the figure of circumcision (v.4).
The hard
encrustation on their hearts must be cut away. Nothing less than
removal of all natural obstacles to the will of God would suffice.
Outward ritual must be replaced by inward reality (cf. Deut 10:16; Rom
2:28-29). The heart was involved because outward worship was valueless
unless the inner life was given over to God. Their hearts must be
spiritually receptive. The only other alternative to obedience was to
experience the fitting wrath of God. Jeremiah everywhere underscores
the necessity for the new heart as in the prophecy of the new covenant
(ch. 31).

Page
408... Amazingly enough, even at that late hour there was
still
opportunity for repentance. Prophecies of judgment are conditional;
obedience to God reverses the threat of judgment. But there must be
inner cleansing, even of the thought life, if disaster is to be
averted."

Page 411 "Judah's
total corruption (5:1-31)

This chapter reveals
Jerusalem under
moral investigation. It may be viewed as a theodicy. A superficial
reading of the earlier chapters of the prophecy might lead one to
conclude that the nation has been charged with all it has been guilty
of. But the depths of her sin against the Lord must be reviewed at
length. The nation must come to a much fuller realization of her
ingrained sin. The desperately low spiritual state of the nation must
be brought under the searchlight of God's scrutiny. Moreover, her sin
must be judged in view of her continued refusal to heed the Lord's
gracious calls to repent and so avert disaster. What a telling
portrayal of unrelieved apostasy the chapter gives us! "

"Throughout this
Gospel dispensation, we are to go into all
nations
as heralds of the cross, seeking the reconciliation of those who by
nature
are at enmity with our Master. Second, this grace of peacemaking
supplements
the six graces mentioned in the previous verses. Perhaps the fact that
this is the seventh Beatitude indicates that it was our
Lord’s intent to
teach that it is this attribute that gives completeness or wholeness to
Christian character. We must certainly conclude that it is an
unspeakable
privilege to be sent forth as ambassadors of peace. Furthermore, those
who fancy themselves to be Christians, yet have no interest in the
salvation
of fellow sinners, are self-deceived. They-possess a defective
Christianity,
and have no right to expect to share in the blessed inheritance of the
children of God. Third, there is a definite link between this matter of
our being peacemakers and the persecution to which our Master alludes
in
verses 10-12. By mentioning these two aspects of Christian character
and
experience side by side in His discourse, Christ is teaching that the
opposition
encountered by His disciples in the path of duty is the result of their
faithfulness in the service to which they have been called. Thus we may
be certain that the peacemaking of our text refers primarily to our
being
instruments in God’s hands for the purpose of reconciling to
Him those
who are actively engaged in warfare against Him (cf.John 15:17-27)....

"The world may
despise them as fanatics, professors of
religion may
regard them as narrow-minded sectarians, and their relatives may look
upon
them as fools. But the great God owns them as His children even now,
distinguishing
them by tokens of His peculiar regard and causing His Spirit within
them
to witness to them that they are sons of God. But in the Day to come,
He
will publicly avow His relationship to them in the presence of an
assembled
universe. However humble their present situation in life may be,
however
despised and misrepresented by their fellow men, they shall yet
“shine
forth as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father” (Matthew
13:43).
Then shall transpire the glorious and long-awaited
“manifestation of the
sons of God” (Romans 8:19)."

“It
is being said that the chief
need of the Church today is to repent because of its ‘lack of
unity’…we
would suggest that before she
repents of her disunity, she must repent of her apostasy.She
must repent of her perversion
of, and substitutes for, ‘the faith once delivered to the
saints.’She
must repent of setting up her
own thinking and methods over against the divine revelation in Holy
Scripture.Here
lies the reason for her lack
of spiritual power and inability to deliver a living message in the
power
of the Holy Ghostto
a
world ready to perish.”
Dr. Martin Lloyd-Jones given at the annual meeting of the
Inter-Varsity
Fellowship in 1954

Malachi 1:6-10 "A son honors
his father, and a servant his master. If I am a father, where is the
honor
due me?If
I am
a master, where is the
respect due me?" says the LORD Almighty. "It is you, O priests, who
show
contempt for my name."But
you ask, 'How have we shown
contempt for your name?' 7 "You place defiled food on my
altar. "But
you ask, 'How have we defiled you?' "By saying that the LORD's table is
contemptible. 8 When you bring blind animals for sacrifice,
is that
not wrong?When
you sacrifice crippled or
diseased animals, is that not wrong? Try offering them to your
governor! Would
he be pleased with you? Would
he accept you?" says the LORD Almighty. 9 "Now implore God to
be
gracious to us. With such offerings from your hands, will he accept
you?"--
says the LORD Almighty. 10
"Oh, that one of you would shut
the temple doors, so that you would not light useless fires on my
altar!
I am not pleased with you," says the LORD Almighty, "and I will accept
no offering from your hands.

C. H. SPURGEON: Ezekiel 9:8 THE
PERSONS WHO ESCAPED, who could each say, “And I
was left.” We are told
that those were marked for mercy who did “sigh and cry for
the abominations
that were done in the midst thereof.” Now, we must be very
particular about
this. It is no word of mine, remember: it is God's word, and therefore
I beg you to hear and weigh it for yourselves.

We
do not read that the devouring
sword passed by those quiet people who never did anybody any harm: no
mention
is made of such an exemption. Neither does the record say that the Lord
saved those professors who were judicious, and maintained a fair name
and
repute until death. No; the only people that were saved were those who
were exercised in heart, and that heart-work was of a painful kind:
they
sighed and cried because of abounding sin. They saw it, protested
against
it, avoided it, and, last of .all, wept over it continually. Where
testimony
failed, it remained for them to mourn; retiring from public labors,
they
sat them down and sighed their hearts away because of the evils which
they
could not cure; and when they felt that sighing alone would do no good,
they took to crying in prayer to God that he would come and put an end
to the dreadful ills which brooded over the land. Click
Here to Read Full Sermon

CHURCH
DISCIPLINE-JUSTICE-RIGHTEOUSNESS AND EXCOMMUNICATIONThe materials on this site are
historical Church doctrines
and sermons defining a true Christian from the false; defining theGodliness of true Christians from
the ungodly in order
to evangelize the lost, build up the believer and reclaim/restore thefallen and remove the
leaven. Here are
some of the materials available...

"Against
an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses. Them
that sin rebuke before all,that
others also may fear.
I charge {thee}
before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe
these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by
partiality."1 Timothy 5:19-21

"Moreover if thy
brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between
thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy
brother.
16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more,
that
in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be
established.
17 And if he shall neglect to
hear them, tell it unto the church:
but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an
heathen
man and a publican." Matthew 18:15-17

Rev. Paul Crouch, Trinity Broadcast
Network:

It was disturbing to read the homosexual accusation
against Rev.
Paul Crouch of Trinity Broadcasting Network! What I find even
more
troublesome is that TBN paid about $425,000 contributor's gifts-God's
money-to
the accuser rather than bringing the matter before a Church council or
even the secular courts. TBN used the weapons of this world
and did
not trusts God for HIS justice. Even more disquieting are the
number
of people-mostly religious leaders, who, without a Biblical judgment
from
a Biblical forum, e.g. Church Discipline, came to Rev. Crouch's
defense,
as though Rev. Jim Bakker, Rev. Jimmy Swaggart, among others, haven't
fooled
them before. Evangelical Christians need to realize we are to
exercise
God's principles of dealing with these issues in a Godly, holy process,
and render a Godly judgment according to Matthew 18. Stop
defrauding!
Stop the Stealing! Stop the gossiping! Stop circling the
wagons and
get back to God's righteousness and faithful living. What
arrogance
we have when we take these matters into our own hands, leaving God's
ways
and HIS will.

To Mr. Bill Fields, I
am currently struggling
with a dispute among brothers in my church; one that I never would have
thought would come to pass. It breaks my heart to see two men who were
once so close break ties and go separate ways. I believe that two
brothers
in Christ who claim the Word of God as the ultimate authority can be
reconciled.

I have heard of
Peacemaker Ministries before but
really know nothing about it, so I decided to search for it on the
internet.
In the process, I came across your site, as it is currently the second
hit in the Google search engine I read through your "rebuke" of Ken
Sande
and it only further discouraged me in my hope for reconciliation in my
church!

You are choosing to
be divisive and a horrible
witness to non-believers displaying all the communication you
have
had with the other group openly on the internet along your
discontentment
with their answer. What a stumbling block you are to people like me who
have never dealt with conflict before and are looking for
help! I
started my search in hope of finding answers, but only found more
confusion
and disorders order. The only things I know about your dispute are from
the information you posted.

What you have posted
does show me love or compassion
for him, but a drive to make your point and show the world that you're
right. Do you honestly believe that you are honoring God by
being
publicly divisive? Am I to follow your example and make a website
showing
where I disagree with my brothers and believe that they are dishonoring
God by not reconciling? If following your example is what God
would
want me to do, then please show me. I want to honor God and help my
brothers.
All I see on your website is an example of how to futher
divide the
body of Christ, and in a way for all non-believers to see.
Sincerely,
Bryan Mosher "

bill..."people like me who have never
dealt with conflict
before and are looking for help"

As a self identified
novice who displays a serious
lack of Biblical understanding I suggest the following:

1 Now when he saw the
crowds, he went up on a
mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him, 2and he began to
teach them saying: 3"Blessed are the poor in
spirit, for theirs
is the kingdom of heaven. 4Blessed are those who
mourn, for
they will be comforted. 5Blessed are the meek, for they will
inherit
the earth. 6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for
righteousness,
for they will be filled. 7Blessed are the merciful,
for they
will be shown mercy. 8Blessed are the pure in
heart,
for they will see God. 9Blessed are the
peacemakers, for they
will be called sons of God. 10Blessed are those who are
persecuted
because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11"Blessed
are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds
of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because
great
is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the
prophets
who were before you.

bill..If you're done criticizing and
open to learning,
please write back for your next lesson, bill

Consider this...why
does God include so many examples
in the Bible, that you seem to refute posting current examples of the
same
issues. bill

Bryan Mosher:I agree with you: we can learn
many things from
the examples God has provided for us in the Bible. However,
He has
also given us specific instructions to not take our current conflicts
to
non-believers for judgement, but to the church.

In your posting, you
accuse Mr. Sande of failing
to properly carry out church discipline in line with Matthew 18, while
at the same time, you yourself fail to properly do so.
Instead of
taking the matter to the church, you have taken it to the whole world,
including non-believers, by posting it on the internet. You
have
put the matter into the hands of non-believers for judgement.
If
I, having no prior knowledge of the situation, can come across it by
simply
searching the internet, so can any non-believer. Taking the
matter
to non-believers to judge also stands in opposition to the principles
of
1 Cor. 6:1-8.

bill...You did not read it fully...I
took it to his
board and later to his church and they all failed address the issues
Biblically.

Again I note the
Bible, God's exposure of the
believers wrongs before the world. God does not present it
before
for the world for them to be judge, but to be warned. Biblical
presentation
warns the non-believers, God's Body, those who are "christian"
pretenders
in danger of hell fire. bill

Bryan Mosher:I understand that.
You then took the matter
to the whole world by posting it on the internet. You added
another
step to the process.

What are you seeking
by posting it on the internet?
Are you not seeking that others come to agree with your
position?
Do you desire that I as well as others see that God's Word was not
honored
in the situation?

What about
non-believers who read your posting?
Non-believers will read it. Will they not tend to see Mr.
Sande in
a negative light as a result of what you wrote? Non-believers
will
pass judgement on him, even if it is only in their minds.
Will that
draw them closer to God or drive them away?

What will
non-believers then think about the manner
in which Christians deal with conflict? In unity, or in
disorder?
The message the posting sends is that not even the Christian
"peacemakers"
can "get along." This is a terrible way to represent God to
the non-believing
world. This only adds more support to the claim "Christians
are no
different than the rest of the world." This may not be your
intent
for posting the information, but that is what it does.

bill...You make God's point-those who
call themselves
"Christian" and fail their God given responsibilities, look no
different
than the rest of the world and God warns them in Matthew 18 to treat
them
as non-believers. bill

Bryan ...Yes, God did
expose and judge people
before the whole world in the Bible. Is not He the only one
with
the authority to do so?

Where in the Bible
does God give us such authority?
In Acts, God also judged and put Ananias and Sapphira to death for
lying.
Should we follow His example in that as well if we encounter an
identical
situation?

bill...Christians are never given the
authority beyond
"treating" them as non-believers, thereby removing them from the church.

It's beyond time to
invite your elders and those
in conflict as a part of these communications. There are many
spiritual
dimensions involved that those mature in the faith will recognize and
know
how they should respond. Hebrews 13: bill

Bryan...As I have been thinking about
what you have said,
I realized that I have criticized and accused you before taking the
time
to actually talk with you to see what you have to say.

I apologize for that,
and ask your forgiveness.

I want to honor God
first, and criticizing and
accusing do not accomplish that. Thank you for taking the
time to
talk with me about this issue. Bryan

I offer forgiveness,
because I am nothing more
than one whose sins past, present and future are deserving of death and
God's gracious love forgives me such a great debt. Matthew
18.
bill http://www.peacemakers.net/peace/eight.htm

Bryan...I have spoken with an elder in
the church, and
the elders in my church are taking care of and have been taking care of
thesituation. I do not
want to add anyone
else to this communication as I personally have no part in the
matter.
What I have written to you about is an internal personal struggle I am
dealing with, as an outsider looking in. I have come to
better understand
what happened, and that the situation is now in God's hands.

Thank you for your
time and your willingness to
talk to me.Bryan

Then I strongly
suggest your first error was seeking
outside your Church Elders training that is your first responsibility
to
seek from your Elders. And if I understand this correctly, YOU have
taken
an internal issue to the public and exposed your church's internal
affairs
before others. You need to repent publicly to the Elders,
those in
conflict, and I would say you are required to confess this sin as a
matter
of both confession and training before the whole
congregation. Only
when the Elders/leadership have steadfastly failed their God given
responsibilities
should you have sought outside help either personally or on behalf of
your
home church. This is a very important understanding-you have
done
exactly what you first accused me of doing! This is a serious breech of
faith and responsibility. You now need to have that Elder
contact
me and affirm you have made such a confession and that the matter is
rightly
under their God given authority. So you know, if I do not
hear from
that Elder I will contact your churches Spiritual Leadership for their
exercise of their proper Biblical responsibilities. You and
your
Church continue in my prayers. bill

Bill,

I allowed my sorrow
to lead me into a sinful attitude
that resulted in my initial email to you, and our resulting discussion
of your posting. I will speak with the same elder I spoke
with previously
and ask to him to help me resolve this matter. I will also
ask him
to contact you to let you know how the matter was resolved. Bryan

Bryan....I spoke with the elder in my
church, and he told
me that he and the other elders have been taking steps to handle the
situation
in a Biblical manner and that there is no need for outside assistance
on
a private matter at this time. Thank you.

bill...I will need to hear from the
elder himself: Isn't
this exciting...you wanted to learn peacemaking and now you get to
practice
in person....bill

. . . till we all
come . . . to the measure of
the stature of the fullness of Christ . . . —Ephesians 4:13
Reconciliation
means the restoring of the relationship between the entire human race
and
God, putting it back to what God designed it to be. This is what Jesus
Christ did in redemption. The church ceases to be spiritual when it
becomes
self-seeking, only interested in the development of its own
organization.
The reconciliation of the human race according to His plan means
realizing
Him not only in our lives individually, but also in our lives
collectively.
Jesus Christ sent apostles and teachers for this very
purpose— that the
corporate Person of Christ and His church, made up of many members,
might
be brought into being and made known. We are not here to develop a
spiritual
life of our own, or to enjoy a quiet spiritual retreat. We are here to
have the full realization of Jesus Christ, for the purpose of building
His body.

Am I building up the
body of Christ, or am I only
concerned about my own personal development? The essential thing is my
personal relationship with Jesus Christ— ". . . that I may
know Him. .
." ( Philippians 3:10 ). To fulfill God’s perfect
design for me requires
my total surrender— complete abandonment of myself to Him.
Whenever I only
want things for myself, the relationship is distorted. And I will
suffer
great humiliation once I come to acknowledge and understand that I have
not really been concerned about realizing Jesus Christ Himself, but
only
concerned with knowing what He has done for me.

Bill, on your page:
http://peacemakers.net/TedHaggard.html#leaders,
the following sentence caught my eye. Can you provide any reference to
material that evidences this? My fellowship is not really involved in
church
growth per se, but easily refers very
sick sheep to
the psycho pros

It is/was a basic
tenet in "Church Growth" movement
like Willow Creek to the point they brought 12 step programs into their
buildings and programs.

The man who was
called Bill W. the first alcholic
to be ministered to by Reverend Frank N. D. Buchman, the person behind
what was later called The Oxford Group. The Oxford Group lost it's way
when they omitted Jesus Christ and HIS work of salvation in
order to appeal
to the "mankind" having what 2 Timothy 3:5 "having a form of godliness
but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them." Today's
"church"
has no understanding of these differences and as blind leading the
blind,
rather than "have nothing to do with them" they are welcomed and
celebrated.

The first generation
of these leaders of these
"churches" were/are mostly men using the ideas of the world to entice
the
"lost" into the church to win them. When in my experiences
God says
2 Thessalonians 2:10-13 "10 and with all the deceit of
unrighteousness
in those who perish, because they received not the love of the truth,
that
they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send
them strong
delusion, that they should believe a lie, 12 that they all
might
be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in
unrighteousness."

Lord, Lord have
mercy...bill

Hi, I am involved in
an on-going reproof of all
the leaders in my local church, hoping that they can repent of setting
aside the Truth of God. Steven.

Hi Steven...you are
in my prayers and before we
go any farther I would need to read your repentance and confessions
that
have brought you to these spiritual truths and application in your own
heart. As you may know there are many who yell and denouce
from a
heart filled with the same on going sins they attack in
others. Peacemaking
is filled with those who lash out at sinners from a heart of denouncing
rather than an invitation to repentance. Peacemaking is filled with
those
who can teach the words but have not the spiritural insights to apply
in
their own heart nor walk in God's Light regardless of cost to
themselves
by those who persecute the truth carried by the faithful.

It has been my
experience and from the witnesses
who've gone before that Biblical Peacemaking uncovers far more enemies
of God's Truth than wins converts to walking in Christ. The
place
of Peacemaking in the sermon on the mount is no accident, one must
begin
in their own spiritual journey and progress through each beattitude in
spiritual growth to be a brother in Christ who can endure the reality
that
severe persecution awaits them.

I have no doubt that
organizations who are quite
popular "peacemaking" teachers and leaders are more likely corrupt
leading
many astray of God's Blessings, and dine with the unrepentant sinner as
a friend and brother.

I was in near the
very beginning of the modern
attempt titled Christian Conflict Resolution that led to many calling
themselves
"peacemakers". And when the Holy Spirit uncovered their sin,
they
became vicious dogs cloaked in scripture. You do not want to
mess
with God in this domain-HE will reveal your heart to the world as HE
has
no tolerance for those who profess spiritual maturity and leadership
that
have no heart to feed HIS sheep.

I have not read your
material yet and will wait
until I can hear your heart directly from you.

......Bill, in
addition to being truly amazed
at your requiring response, I am very thankful for it. Such a response
is precious and rare. Others have been after me for some time now to
put
my testimony down on paper yet I have pretty much ignored them. Your
speaking
has allowed the Lord to draw the line for me, and I thank you for it.
It
will take some time to put my history of repentance and confession down
on paper. It is clear to me now that I must begin work on it.

I appreciate your
prayer in that regard. I have
also copied others on this reply to whom I have been trying to hold
myself
accountable.

This sentence of
yours is on my heart each day:
HE has no tolerance for those who profess spiritual maturity and
leadership
that have no heart to feed HIS sheep.

I regret to inform
you that PeaceMakers has been
made aware that a person saying they are a part of your congregation
has
made a serious statement that there is/are women in your midst that
have
bared their breast and have held other women's breast as a greeting or
show of some group identity. We are seeking the identity of the person
making those statements but since there is now a police report of
sexual
assualt/harassment and/or sexual abuse against that person, we may not
be able to identify and report the person(s) needing your Elders
help.

Please help us
understand your procedures should
the person the subject of the attack we willing to give witness to the
person's identity and behaviors, as to how to proceed.

You are all in our
prayersPeaceMakers.net

There was no
response: A police report
was filed for sexual violation in which Clearview Church of Bloomington
IL was identified by the assaliant as their church and is now public
record.

It involves a single
woman in her mid-thirties
living on her own that hasbroken off a sexual
relationship she has had
with an unmarried pastor. She refuses to confide in her
father and the
pastor is still serving as ateaching pastor.
They live in separate
states.

She told me that
because she has confessed her
sin to God and some peoplethat know her and this pastor
that her confession
is complete. She alsosaid she has repented and is
now being restored.

I'm unclear, based
upon your "8 steps", whether
or not if she still needsto confess to her father, the
main pastor of
the unmarried pastors church,the elders in her church, etc.

Also, I'm not clear
on the process of restititution
is or what should bein this situation and if true
reconciliation
can proceed without theelders of your church being
involved in that
process or the authority of aparent especially when a
single person is involved.

Your Biblical counsel
is much needed and prayerfully
sought.

Thanks,

--------------------------------

Blessings ______, you
are walking the often lonely
foot steps of Christ...

Here are the Biblical
principles and resultant
steps of faith for the True Christian.

Every person within a
local church is to be in
submission to the oversight and biblical teachings and accounting of
that
Church's Elders. Heb. 13. for added emphasis

Hebrews 13:17 Obey
your leaders and submit to
their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an
account.
Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that
would
be of no advantage to you. NIV

Therefore each party
either voluntarily goes with
your witness and confesses before their authority or you go without
them.

2 Corinthians
7: for added emphasis

2 Corinthians 7:9-12
9 Now I rejoice, not that
ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were
made
sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in
nothing.
10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented
of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. 11 For behold this
selfsame
thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought
in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea,
what
fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In
all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this
matter.

True repentance is
very clear and easy to see
and willing to do all possible to not sin again, not cast clouds on
Christ,
His Body the Church, etc. A degree of reluctance can be
normal but
will be quickly overcome (the same session) with clear Biblical
instruction
on this passage. Any further reluctance is grounds to proceed without
them.

Crossing state lines,
city limits, other congregations
does not alter the Biblical truths, on the contrary, it must assure
such
a confession is made, to all in Biblical authority; therefore her
father,
her elders, her pastor, his pastor.

I don't care what
she/he said or says, if it's
not in line with the Scriptures it's a continuation of the heart/flesh
sins that led to their abomination. Paul is very clear Godly Sorrow
leads
to a full clearing of the matter and opens the gates for those in
Spiritual
authority to assist and keep watch that it's not repeated and brings
repute
upon Christ's name nor grieves the Holy Spirit.

OK that was the easy
part:sigh

The real
test for you will likely come upon
you by those who profess Christ and sit in the seat of authority who
don't
know these principles, nor practice them, don't know how to disciple
and
don't have the time to walk with her/him in their daily walk and keep
close
watch over them-if that's true then they will turn on you in all manner
of ways that upbraids you and your actions. Here's the test
of true
Godly Leadership-they will first weep at their failure to know and care
for these two. They will bless you for following in Christ's
instructions.
They will repent to he/him of their failure as those who must give an
account.
They will gird their loins for spiritual battle and ask for your help
and
prayers.They will confess their own sins before the congregation in
their
failure of spiritual leadership. They will preach sermons that set
forth
these spiritual truths and how they will be excercised within their
congregation.
If she/he is unrepentant they will announce a period of shunning with
instrurutions
in hopes she/he will repent. Upon Biblical repentance with Godly sorrow
they will celebrate the lost sheep's return and make promise to walk
worthy
of God's calling in their life.

I will tell you, I've
never seen this happen.

If her father is a
Christian he will follow the
above pattern set forth in Scripture. If he is not a Christian, you may
explain these teachings and your Christian love and responsibility for
her.

You all are in our
prayers, remembering our confessions
of failure and thanking God for Christ's witness and the discipline
that
hurt for a while that increased our love for our Heavenly Father and
gave
new light in to redemption, mercy, grace, to sinners such as
we.
Amen and Amen

BUSINESS
VS MINISTRY/CHURCH

First Contact Email:

I got one email
address from your website, the
other from Dave Treadwell’s email below. Here is an
outline of the
issue. Hopefully it will help a potential facilitator
understand
before s/he calls me.

XYZ has been on Light
of Life’s staff for XX years.
He’s held many positions and was an important steadying
influence in the
midst of some chaotic times. When I arrived in YYYY, he was
serving
as XXXXX and held that position until YYYY, when I hired a
new
BBBBB and XYZ moved to a newly created position of RRRRRRR..

At that time, we both
understood that it was a
temporary position, though neither of us set any dates. Last
summer
I started to share with XYZ that the work assigned him was winding
down,
and that we had to start talking about his transition out of Light of
Life.
Last YYYY we agreed that he would resign on YY/YY/YY, but that he would
not have to work after YY/YY/YY (he would be paid for YY, YY and YY
without
showing up). This agreement took the form of a letter of
resignation
from him requesting the 3 months of pay without work and my letter to
him
agreeing to the request.

Now his wife is
pressing him to demand 9 month’s
severance (to start YY/YY/YY) because he is being pushed out.
QUE
(a former staff member herself) is telling him they (both of them) have
sacrificed too much for too long. I asked XYZ if we would be
having
this conversation if he already had a job lined up. He said
we absolutely
would. For QUE, it is a matter of principle, though
I’m sure it’s
also a matter of security.

I’ve told
him he has put me in a difficult position.
This should have been dealt with last YY when we negotiated the
separation.
If there are any changes, we now have to write legal documents that
speak
of “full and final agreement”.

I could simply say
no—we have an agreement in
writing. I did not lay him off, saying there was no longer a
need
for a XXXXX, because I wanted to offer him the chance to leave
“on his
own terms”. The risk of saying no is the problems
we could have with
other long-term staff, some of whom still feel I’m cleaning
house…and they
will be next.

I could agree to the
request. But I could
have sent him on his way with a one year severance when I found a new
BBBB.
It would have cost the Mission less if it had been handled that
way.
But, I didn’t do so to save XYZ the embarrassment of being
let go harshly
after all those years of service. Furthermore, I’m
concerned about
setting precedence—negotiating twice at
separation—or other long term staff
members offering to resign in exchange for severance.

I want to do the
“right thing” and let God handle
the consequences. But I’m not sure what the right
thing is.

David G.
Bugher Executive Director Light of Life Rescue
Mission

I am the Light of the
world... In me you will have abundant
Life -Jesus

Greetings.
Our sister mission in Pittsburg,
Light of Life Mission, is looking for assistance with a Christian
conciliation
effort in the personnel/employment field. Could you please recommend
one
or more facilitators they can contact for assistance?
I’ve shared
our positive experiences with Ron Zabel and believe this is a situation
where conciliation has a great opportunity for the parties to honor the
Lord.

PMI:I have not heard back from
XYZ...so I will speak
to you in terms of what came to mind in the values I hear in your
information
and desire. Only God knows what you are saying, I'm sharing from who
I've
been and heard in all my years of ministry, corporate turn around
professional,
managing ministries and secular business. I can not speak to the
details
specific to your immediate situation.

1. You are a ministry
NOT a business. Your question
is a business choice.2. XYZ made this
ministry succeed to this
point-if not for him there would be no question.3. XYZ & his
wife gave their life for
this ministry.4. Even the business &
military world would
recognize their service and sacrifice and provide a pension and health
benefits.5. XYZ and his wife
are brothers and sisters
in Christ having needs-you should choose accordingly.6. You are reaping the rewards
of their sacrifice-in
28 years how would you like to be treated?7. Caring for XYZ
and his wife IS ministry8. What lessons do you want
those whom you choose
to minister to learn from how you treat XYZ and his wife?9. XYZ and his wife
are children of our
Living God-if I talk to you like this, what do you think God's going to
say about your treatment of XYZ and his wife?10. What reputation do you
want in your own heart,
your community, in God's record of your choice?11. The perceived
failings/sins, (if I'm on target)
started in the HQs of your group and needs to corrected there first.12. If you are humbled before
God with these
statement, don't expect HQ to be-they picked you and they talk sweetly
to you until they (they now, they future) need to throw you away for a
better "leader". 13. If HQ is humbled, you are
part of a miracle-it's
almost never happens.14. If HQ is not humbled, get
out now before
you risk your sanity, your faith, your family.15. If you think these
thoughts are absurd, put
this in a safe place and write me in five years, because the same
dynamics
that brought you to this point with XYZ , will then be an ax over your
head.

you are all in my
prayers, bill fields

Bill,

Rather than continue
one-way communication by
responding to your email, I would like to talk. Would you be
willing
to call my cell (xxx-xxx-xxxx) or give me a number I can
call? Two-way
communication is always better…especially in this case.

David

PMI: If we talk one to one the
rules are I will only
talk about you and the Biblical application to you. Otherwise it's with
witnesses. Please let me know if this is acceptable, bill

i agree not to talk
about the specific
case.

I may have read a lot
into your last email that
you did not intend. It seemed to me that you drew many
conclusions
based on many assumptions. You said you “could not
speak to the details
specific to our immediate situation”, but then did exactly
that.
Maybe I misunderstood your intentions. My concern, based on
the above,
is whether Peacemakers would be of any help in this circumstance.

David G.
Bugher Executive Director Light of Life Rescue
Mission

Yes, that's why we
have witnesses. As to
whether I'm able to help you, it seems the answer is no. My intention
was
to state to you what is very common in what calls itself "ministry."
Your
presentation is classic. I presented God's Word and the heart of Godly
ministry and you didn't seem to hear it. If XYZ ever contacts me I will
do the same with his side of the table. Let me explain the
Biblical
definition of Peacemaking, it's the establishment or re-establishment
of
Godliness. I'm not interviewing for a job-I don't care if you hire me
or
not-I care I present Godliness and how God expects Christians
to
behave-how did you miss that? How did you possibly read into my
response
anything more? And remember, I spoke to the details you presented on
your
side of the table-how does that raise your concerns?

This last email
confirms that I will not talk
with you nor anyone else without witnesses, you're in my
prayers,
bill

Hebrews 13:17
"Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they
watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do
it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for
you."
Your email with this information will be read and appropriately
responded
to.