That's a long discussion I've had a million times already. I don't want to go into the whole backstory about how they screwed it up... but these sequels are the reason that Weinstine isn't doing the Fraggle Movie AND the reason I'm glad they aren't.

Hoodwinked 2 was ruined by studio meddling. Corey and his brother were kicked off the picture somehow, they hired hack script doctors who rewrote the script to be edgier (now where have I heard that before?), then they sat on it for a year to make it "even better" (I swear they added bad ADR jokes), and quietly popped it off sometime near the end of April when NO ONE is going to the movies. At least no one who wanted to see that. One can only imagine how they would've screwed up Fraggle Rock the same way.

Scream 5 quickly tiptoed through a dark room quietly, not even kicking over the garbage can, and no one noticed it or cared. I still don't see what purpose another Spy Kids movie serves other than taking Robert Rodriguez and delaying the Jetsons movie another decade (that may be a good or bad thing). Even though the Smurfs looks icky, even I'd rather see their film than another SpyKids... and I dug the first one.

Our Idiot Brother (the ONLY original movie they have) has cult potential. Other than that, I'm just waiting for them to go bankrupt. They mismanaged their own company, they need to face the consequences.

What Disney don't seem to realise is that the Muppets always survived on their inherent charm and good character. They had a home made quality that endeared them towards entire generations of people for three solid decades.

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I hesitate to agree. While there is plenty of story potential, "guest stars" have been a focus for a looooooong time, as though no one would watch a Muppets-only show/movie/whatever.

beaker said:

It's only because of him this whole enterprise exists...but goodness, what world does he inhibit? The Muppet Movie and Muppets Take Manhattan existed in the real world, hence why I took issue with MFS. This film doesn't seem grounded in reality at all. "Anytown USA"? Fantasy romance cgi sequences? The beat, pacing and pop is all off with the trailer as well...some of it works, and is what fans will go gaga over, and rightfully so.

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You know how Gary Stu's/Mary Sue's are ultra-perfect characters who tend to be just the author writing themselves into a plot and making it according to their fangirl/boy's dreams. Look at the humans' names: Gary and Mary. Look at the plot: A nostalgic throwback in which the author has basically written himself in.
I eagerly anticipate the movie ... but ... it's a fanfic.

The only thing that I'm still concerned about is the extent where the two human characters are used. However, unlike all the clumsily added in love subplots with humans in all the kid's movies I've seen, this movie has potential to do good on it and make it feel real. I mean, these are the masters of the Bromantic comedy... Forgetting Sarah Marshall and all that. Sure, they can't go THAT far with it. That and both actors actually WANT to be in the movie AND can act. Unlike, say, Yogi Bear.

I kinda get the impression (based on the parody trailers) that they "get" what their presence might do to the film and plan on exploiting it. Everything they've done so far just screams fanfic ... and I don't mean it as an insult (I can't stand it when fanfics are automatically dismissed). I feel as though whatever we see of their romance will be explained as how the Muppets have inspired them. I mean, Gary wears a suit, Mary wears a pink dress with purple accessories ... they're trying to be Kermit and Piggy in their fantasies (one wonders if the dance fantasy will have something akin to The Moment It Happens or whatever the title is playing). I know when I daydream about getting married, He'll Make Me Happy is always played, LOL. Here we have (according to trailers, anyway) two people who we know will most likely end up together, fight over really dumb stuff, but fantasize about their romance. I get the impression that human participation will be framed by how inspirational and Muppetational the Muppets have been and can be.

I kinda get the impression (based on the parody trailers) that they "get" what their presence might do to the film and plan on exploiting it. Everything they've done so far just screams fanfic ... and I don't mean it as an insult (I can't stand it when fanfics are automatically dismissed). I feel as though whatever we see of their romance will be explained as how the Muppets have inspired them.

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And I wonder if there's going to be some sort of sarcastic backhand with the human relationship. I know a LOT of sappy stuff that's put into cartoons to mock the fact they have to put something sappy in there in the first place. Either way, at least we have people who KNOW how to write movies about relationships at the helm of this picture, instead of some clumsily added forced romantic subcontext for girls in the audience, like said bad kid's movies. There was NO CALL for the romance in Yogi Bear to be between anybody BUT Yogi and Cindy. Too bad they had to put a random Mary Sue park ranger in the movie and NOT put Cindy in there. I'm sure there's something like that in the Smurf film, but Neil Patrick Harris can ACT!

You know how Gary Stu's/Mary Sue's are ultra-perfect characters who tend to be just the author writing themselves into a plot and making it according to their fangirl/boy's dreams. Look at the humans' names: Gary and Mary. Look at the plot: A nostalgic throwback in which the author has basically written himself in.
I eagerly anticipate the movie ... but ... it's a fanfic

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I kinda get the impression (based on the parody trailers) that they "get" what their presence might do to the film and plan on exploiting it. Everything they've done so far just screams fanfic ... and I don't mean it as an insult (I can't stand it when fanfics are automatically dismissed). I feel as though whatever we see of their romance will be explained as how the Muppets have inspired them. I mean, Gary wears a suit, Mary wears a pink dress with purple accessories ... they're trying to be Kermit and Piggy in their fantasies (one wonders if the dance fantasy will have something akin to The Moment It Happens or whatever the title is playing). I know when I daydream about getting married, He'll Make Me Happy is always played, LOL. Here we have (according to trailers, anyway) two people who we know will most likely end up together, fight over really dumb stuff, but fantasize about their romance. I get the impression that human participation will be framed by how inspirational and Muppetational the Muppets have been and can be.

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That's EXACTLY the tone i got from reading the script and i'm sure Segel worked with Bobin to make sure that's what carries into the film. Gary/Mary may be the human leads but they're there to serve the Muppets and let them carry the film (unlike the last few projects with human leads). There's a reason why Walter is there with Gary/Mary (and why he's named Walter and not say, Larry). Now granted, it's clear that a lot has been changed since the early draft i've seen and final project but i take it all changes have been for the better. In the early draft, the first ten minutes were the primary area of concern in regards to lack of Muppets, but the rest of the film is Muppets Muppets Muppets.

So, as I suspected, the "new Muppet trailer" was a rumor/hoax. Theyd never release a new full trailer so close to the first.

Well fanfics are generally thrown into the same tableaux as furries, rabid Sonic fans, pairshippers(fanfic of pairings between two male lead characters), and 4chan users. Though I know college educated girls in their late 20's and 30's into fanfics...as there's fanfics for virtually every known cartoon/manga/anime/film/tv show/book series that has any sort of following. Heck, I've even seen Chuck E Cheese fanfic sites.
I'm wondering just how fanfic/fanservicey they will go with the new film

Right now I'm just waiting for the Smurfs garbage to go away(somehow I feel nauseated every time I hear or see anything related to that) And then from there, nothing but felty foam gloriousness. You know, just the fact they say "Muppet Domination Nov 23rd" as the tagline makes me happy...sounds like something I woulda come up with.

Though I know college educated girls in their late 20's and 30's into fanfics...as there's fanfics for virtually every known cartoon/manga/anime/film/tv show/book series that has any sort of following.

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*sniffle* I like fanfics, and I'm a college-educated girl in her early 30's....

You know the difference between a fanfic (assuming it's well done) and what's in a bookstore? The author getting paid. That's about it. Kirk didn't die! He was assimilated by the Borg! (And THAT'S from Shatner!)

Princess Leia was abducted by some pheromone-spewing lizard guy (ok, the only book I've ever actually read so far about a certain property that wasn't just a novelization of a show/movie is Shadows of the Empire, but dang, it was good, LOL).

*as patriotic music begins to swell and the US flag appears in the background* I have a dream ... a dream where, one day, fanfics can be appreciated as literature in their own right. Sure, there is a lot of crap out there. Sure, there is a lot of shipping/softcore/hardcore stuff out there. But, but ... fanfiction is a product of love by people who aren't satisfied sometimes that original official writers don't want to cover something. Or perhaps we can offer a spin on a story that was implied but never really dealt with. Or maybe we liked a 3rd-tier character more than the passing cameo he or she deserved in that show. *sniffle* Fleshing out the lives of our favorite characters or settings is our God-given right. We help characters stay alive. *salutes and bows*

You know the difference between a fanfic (assuming it's well done) and what's in a bookstore? The author getting paid. That's about it. Kirk didn't die! He was assimilated by the Borg! (And THAT'S from Shatner!)

Eh, if it's done well, a fan fic is all right by me. I mean, Sonic the Comic Online is one of the most dedicated fan fics out there, continuing a beloved version of the character that was taken down before it's time.

I'll take anything as long as it isn't just... I dunno... what do you call it when they just randomly pair up characters together so they can... you know...

I sure hope someone confirms that they saw it and tell us about the newest trailer soon, so they can confirm that it's not a rumor or hoax.

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Yeah, if it's not hitched to Smurfs, it would likely be stuck together with Spy Kids. And say what you will about Smurfs, at least that movie has an audience (for Lord knows what reason), Spy Kids just doesn't seem like anyone will see it, being in August and all. And being a sequel to a franchise that ended when the last kids went through puberty. The girl spy is an adult and HOT now... that's just WRONG!

I've been meaning to say this for a while but I love the fact that Scooter's jeans are so trendy. The Scooter from TMS (and my Scooter snuggle doll) are both wearing bargain-type denims. Nice to see a little geek chic! (Now, if we could just get him into a cool Zombie t-shirt!)