i used to have a Hafler 500 amp and ran it for a few weeks (or a few months, cant remember), and then i changed the amp for a QSC GX5.then i listened to the same music as beforehand, and i was never aware of any change in SQ or whatever.if there are differences, i could never hear any.the 2 amps were used with the M80's for the comparison.

i'm talking here of good dynamic range music played at Realistic Levels (as if i was in the best seat of the hall).

when no sound is coming out of the speakers, i can hear the fans a little (measured at 1-2 dB more than no fans), but even with the softest sound coming out of the speakers, the fan noise disappears. so, for me, it's not a problem.if the noise had been too loud, i would have just changed the fan for a quieter one or maybe use something to absorb the fan noise.

the reasons i bought pro amps?half the heat;near half the power consumption;half the size;half the weight;twice the power;very solid build;quality components;a fraction of the price of an equivalent "audiophile" amp;6 year warranty.

at first i was looking for good quality amps, and after a while thought "wow, they're very costly!", even compared to 1000$ that i had paid in the mid 80's for the Hafler, so i had the idea of looking at pro amps and i don't regret doing that.

For those who continue to recommend or even gush about how great these cheap "Pro" amps are, I have only one question: Have you actually heard one and compared its performance on real music material against a good quality separate amplifier driving good quality speakers like the Axiom M80's or LFR's?

Sadly, no. Damned kids keep sucking up all the money. Say, you wouldn't want to buy a couple of kids to fund my experiments would you?

The best I can do is Danley Labs bench tests. They are a credible source and have both the equipment and expertise to properly evaluate an amp.

Originally Posted By: Ken.C

AHA! We're back to my question. Double blind test.

Indeed.

_________________________
Fred

-------Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

For those who continue to recommend or even gush about how great these cheap "Pro" amps are, I have only one question: Have you actually heard one and compared its performance on real music material against a good quality separate amplifier driving good quality speakers like the Axiom M80's or LFR's?

As per my previous diatribe about this, I did try my QSC amp(GX3 - 300watts/ch))in my HT system(M80s) and once again, because of the noise issue, it just wasn't feasible and as we all know noise levels DO affect performance. I talked to someone at QSC about this and they did admit amps like the GX3 or any models in their less expensive GX series, are really not designed to use in an HT application.

Since QSC, in particular, has many different models at varying price levels and quality including amps for pro cinema, the rep indicated that I would need one of their more upscale models to fill the bill which, in the end, would require spending more money anyway.

For those who continue to recommend or even gush about how great these cheap "Pro" amps are, I have only one question: Have you actually heard one and compared its performance on real music material against a good quality separate amplifier driving good quality speakers like the Axiom M80's or LFR's?

Sadly, no. Damned kids keep sucking up all the money. Say, you wouldn't want to buy a couple of kids to fund my experiments would you?

The best I can do is Danley Labs bench tests. They are a credible source and have both the equipment and expertise to properly evaluate an amp.

Originally Posted By: Ken.C

AHA! We're back to my question. Double blind test.

Indeed.

I have two kids of my own to pay for and look after, so I'll have to pass on your very generous offer to double my fun!

Seriously though, from a value perspective a less costly receiver or pre/pro plus one or more cheap "Pro" amps are indeed worth considering. They may even provide as good or better real performance as a more costly, or even very high end, receiver. But until I hear one myself I will remain doubtful that they'll be near as good as a better amp -- whether "Pro" or consumer.

For those who continue to recommend or even gush about how great these cheap "Pro" amps are, I have only one question: Have you actually heard one and compared its performance on real music material against a good quality separate amplifier driving good quality speakers like the Axiom M80's or LFR's?

As per my previous diatribe about this, I did try my QSC amp(GX3 - 300watts/ch))in my HT system(M80s) and once again, because of the noise issue, it just wasn't feasible and as we all know noise levels DO affect performance. I talked to someone at QSC about this and they did admit amps like the GX3 or any models in their less expensive GX series, are really not designed to use in an HT application.

Since QSC, in particular, has many different models at varying price levels and quality including amps for pro cinema, the rep indicated that I would need one of their more upscale models to fill the bill which, in the end, would require spending more money anyway.

I certainly agree that fan noise isn't something I'd be keen on hearing and this is another argument against using them in home or HT applications. Are there any that don't use fans for cooling? And as another consideration, by the time one buys more than one (for multichannel HT applications) does it not increase the total investment to closer to the point where a multi-channel HT-specific consumer amp becomes a viable option?

...Are there any that don't use fans for cooling? And as another consideration, by the time one buys more than one (for multichannel HT applications) does it not increase the total investment to closer to the point where a multi-channel HT-specific consumer amp becomes a viable option?

Yes, there are fan-less options,but that does add to the cost. Hmm, maybe between heat sinking and a requirement for better components to handle a fan-less environment that is one thing that drives the cost of consumer amps up.

_________________________
Fred

-------Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!