I confess I'm getting tired of the unrelenting hoopla surrounding the constant stream of Comics-based programming. DC, Marvel, and Star Wars is almost all anyone is talking about, even in the industry mags, and it's starting to feel overwhelming. (I don't need to see the new Star Wars; there's been so much speculation, exclusive news, leaked info, etc. that I can piece the entire thing together in my head at this point.) Because of this, I kind of rolled my eyes when Gotham was announced, and was pretty determined to give it a miss when it aired. *Then* I started hearing that it was actually pretty great, that it lived up to all the hype, and having run out of things to watch, I gave it a try.

Holy crow, I was transfixed from frame one. If nothing else, it's frickin' beautiful! I even called my brother into the room and made him watch part of it (he does lighting and stuff on film sets), and *he* was blown away. It's just absolutely visually stunning. On top of that, though, the stories are intriguing, the characters are over-the-top enough to live in a pre-Batman world while still being believable (in that context), and the acting is top notch. If any of you have been hesitating to see it, I recommend you at least watch the pilot. Seriously, I super dig this show right now.

Penguin is probably my favorite character. He's equal parts sympathetic and slimy, and I can never decide if I adore him or am terrified by him. Both, I suppose. I also love Nigma. He's another I want to punch and then hug. One of my faves, nearly on par with Penguin, is Alfred. I don't know that I've seen Sean Pertwee in anything before, but he's friggin' incredible in this. Although it is tough to get the image of his dad out of my head; they look so much alike!

On that subject, is it just me, or does Ben McKenzie look like he could be Pertwee's younger brother?

And for those who are caught up: LOVED this week's episode. It was pretty obvious that the therapist was at least in on things from the moment we met her, but the reveal was still satisfying. Pretty stupid of Bullock to confront her himself, and I'm actually glad that she kicked his ass initially (girl power!). There was something awesome about her girly scream when he shot her in the leg, too, like she was truly caught off guard, rather than having her give some badass action film grunt when hit. I love, too, the way that Gordon finally seemed to win Bullock's respect, just to have it destroyed at the end. I love this rock-and-hard-place the writers have put Gordon in the middle of.

If there's one character I don't like, it's Barbara. I feel like all she does is whine and bully Gordon into sharing secrets with her that he flat out isn't allowed to. They have the same boring conversation over and over again: She asks for him to spill, he says he *can't*, she accuses him of not loving her enough to confide in her. It's boring and stupid.

Like you I was worried about this. I'd seen some of the publicity stills and had thrown a shoe.It sounded pointless and the canon was about to be seriously screwed with (and it is in several places).But I needed some new Batman. Batman Begins was great (even if they do pronounce Ra's Al Ghul incorrectly AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH) but I was so angry with Dark Knight and I lasted 17 minutes of Dark Knight Rises.The new 52 is a massive heap of awfulness (WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO HARLEY YOU BASTARDS!???!?!? THAT IS NOT HER ORIGIN YOU UTTER SACKS OF SEXIST SHIT1!!111!! *has embolism*), I tried to play the computer games but my laptop just laughed at me.

So I took a very deep breath and tried it.And liked it. Quite a bit.

Gordon is great (needs a mini tache though), as is Bulloch and Sarah Essen and the GCPD building is great.I'm not happy with Montoya though, she's a brilliant character in the comics not the mad bitch she seems to be in this

As you have said VL the city is fantastic. This is how Nolan should have had it in his films but didn't (cos he's an *beep*). Its dark and rainy and has gargoyles and a bit of neon signage and abandoned warehouses and a lot of restaurants for the mob to own and eat in. I believe its Gotham.

Bruce Wayne initially pissed me off but then I thought about it and he would have been like that as a kid so its all fine by me, and dammit, I wasn't supposed to like Alfred, but I've warmed so much to him. Sean Pertwee is really good, you feel his love for Bruce Wayne, him wanting to protect him but having to hold back and be the butler. Awwww.

The Penguin. Oh, how amazing are you?! I was really worried about this, really to throw more shoes, but he's so fab. I love his mannerisms and his nose and his emo hair and his obvious delight in murdering people and he's playing everyone so well (but I really do think he likes Gordon, and after this weeks episode I think he's a tad obsessed). His relationship with his Mum is totally creepy ahahahahaha.I always liked Burgess Meredith as The Penguin but since then I've never really been that much of a fan, even in Batman Returns my attention was distracted by Michelle Pfeiffer stealing the screen, so its a really nice change to care a lot about the character.

The Riddler: I'm sorry VL but he annoyed the crap out of me in the first episode, and to some extent still does. Its just a bit too much (yes I know I adore Jim Carrey in the role and that's a million more times over the top). If they continue to tone him down then it'll be great, but this week with the question mark on the cup? NO.

Catwoman: The girls face is puuuuuuurfect (sorry), but her acting is .... well, um.... yeah.

Papa's new wife wrote:Gordon is great (needs a mini tache though), as is Bulloch and Sarah Essen and the GCPD building is great.

Maybe they're trying to make him look younger, and if the show goes on long enough, they'll give him a leetle lip caterpillar.

I'm not happy with Montoya though, she's a brilliant character in the comics not the mad bitch she seems to be in this

I wondered about this, actually. I don't like her, either, but didn't know if she was in the comics (and therefore possibly here for the long haul) or if she was just a side character. Hopefully they'll give her something more interesting to do, and she can drop the bitch crap.

As you have said VL the city is fantastic. This is how Nolan should have had it in his films but didn't (cos he's an *beep*). Its dark and rainy and has gargoyles and a bit of neon signage and abandoned warehouses and a lot of restaurants for the mob to own and eat in. I believe its Gotham.

It reminds me of a cleaner, shinier Bladerunner. I love the mix of vintage and modern that they've gone with. People dress kind of noirish, the furniture is old wood with a 40s vibe, but they have computers and cell phones.

Sean Pertwee is really good, you feel his love for Bruce Wayne, him wanting to protect him but having to hold back and be the butler. Awwww.

Yes, this! ^^

The Penguin. Oh, how amazing are you?! I was really worried about this, really to throw more shoes, but he's so fab. I love his mannerisms and his nose and his emo hair and his obvious delight in murdering people and he's playing everyone so well (but I really do think he likes Gordon, and after this weeks episode I think he's a tad obsessed).

I agree! Wonder how long that'll last

His relationship with his Mum is totally creepy ahahahahaha.

OMG! This week during the bath scene?! I don't even think I heard what they were talking about; I just kept watching her hand, thinking, "just keep it out of the water, okay? KEEP IT OUT OF THE WATER!!!" Oh geeze, and when he said, "Mom, you always think it's another woman...." =shudder=

The Riddler: I'm sorry VL but he annoyed the crap out of me in the first episode, and to some extent still does.

Oh, he annoys me, too, but every Riddler has. I feel like that's kind of the point.

...but this week with the question mark on the cup? NO.

I'm 100% with you there. That was REALLY stupid.

Falcone/Maroni: Like very much.

I like them, too, although I find Maroni's accent distracting. The actor, David Zayas, is well-known to be Hispanic, and he's just doing his regular accent, the same one he used on Dexter. He's not even *trying* to sound Italian. I feel like the producers think we're too stupid to know the difference between a Hispanic accent and an Italian one. But I do REALLY love his character, so I suppose in time I'll stop being annoyed by the way he sounds.

I completely get why you say that, and yet I mostly like her. Yes, she chews so much scenery it's a wonder she stays skinny, but for the most part, I think the feel of the show supports that kind of thing. From time to time it gets to be too much, and perhaps it will eventually put me off her, but for right now, she's okay in my book.

astrid wrote:I'm sorry ladies I watched one episode and couldn't take any more. The Mr and I got five minutes into the second episode and gave up.

I will admit the fella playing Penguin was awesome. Something about the style or the acting was just putting me off somehow. Glad you ladies are enjoying it, we need more fun stuff on our tv!

Bummer! Wished you loved it, but I understand. To each their own. (And more husbands for us! )

Hahahahaahha! That is effing brilliant. That's like Nick Brendan going as Xander this year (or at least posing as him for a pic). I love when actors can take it to that level. Trust me, if I was cast in something that was popular and geeky, I would cosplay the crap out of it, just to see who would think it was really me, as opposed to a look alike.

So, Stewart and I managed to get 3 episodes in. I like the look of it, and did enjoy watching it, it just didn't really grab me. I could happily stop watching it, though we'll probably keep at it and maybe I'll get hooked! I do love Penguin, though, he's very sweet and stabby.

Aw, hadn't heard about Nick Brendon - is there a photo on the interweb??

"I've been in love with the morbid, ebony-black grotesqueness of the 19th century since I was knee-high to a funeral mute."

ratgirl wrote:Aw, hadn't heard about Nick Brendon - is there a photo on the interweb??

There was, although I no longer remember where. He was dressed as "Eyepatch Karate Chop Action Xander".

You'll have to keep us updated as to how the potential Gotham addiction progresses.

I have to rant about Barbara and feminism in general. I am normally not such a negative person, I swears it, but feeling free to express my less-than-diplomatic side here sometimes results in me seeming like I am.

I think I have pinpointed why I loathe her character so much. She is the perfect example of a weak woman dressed in strong women's clothing. She smacks of male writers who don't know how real woman are supposed to act, so they throw every "strong" cliche at a her, while still keeping her shackled in the role of "helpless girlfriend". Whatever she is warned, logically, not to do she turns around and does anyway, whining after the fact that she was "just trying to help". 'Cause what makes her strong is that she doesn't have to listen to no stinkin' men, even when what they say makes perfect sense. What makes her strong is her not being afraid to argue over everything. Yup, that's strength.

In fact, there are zero truly strong women in this show, which is the one point that really rankles. There are several "strong woman" cliches. Fish is presented as a strong woman, but she's so very far from being real. She's a caricature, a submissive's wet dream. Barbara is classic weak and stupid female. Her ex is classic bitch. Penguine's mum is mad as a box of mad things, Selina is on her way to a similar destination with the cat thing, and Fish's protege has settled nicely into the "mum" role. The closest to anything approaching real strength is shown by the Police Chief, but she mostly just shouts, and when it comes down to it, she puts her own hide ahead of doing the right thing.

Some would argue that all of the characters in Gotham are over-the-top, and while that's not wrong, it also doesn't negate my point. The male characters are larger than life, as well, and yet somehow they are still relateable. Jim is everyman, so he doesn't count. He's the audience's eyes, and so is Joe Normal. Bullock, his partner, is a flawed man who is just trying to navigate this crazy world the best he can. Nigma is just a poor *beep* who wants too badly to please, and so is awkward as *beep*. The mob bosses are typical gangsters, but both clearly also have a heart, and a soft spot for those they take under their wing. Bruce Wayne is frigid because he's still numb from witnessing his parent's murders, and Alfred is a big, soft, squishy heart that bleeds for him. Penguin, the most cartoonish of them all, is nearly as mad as his mother, but one can see how he became that way, and can sympathize with his outlook on life.

I still really like this show, but these points are starting to rub me the wrong way a little more than I'm comfortable with. If the thinly-veiled misogyny runs any deeper, I'm going to have to buy hip waders in order to keep watching without hurling things at my television.