Lest anyone think me a troll or fanboy, here's my post from earlier today on Marketwatch:
"It's nice to finally have an independent (sort of) testing agency validate my comments, which I've been making since around June 24th or so. People have accused me of:
Never owning an iPhone 4 (have since June 23rd)
Not knowing anything about research (I've done over 20 years of same)
Being an Apple hater (have almost 100% of my stock in Apple, and have since before the ip4 was released, and still own it today, so why would I broadcast this info to the world?)
It's all in my head, and can't be repeatable (demonstrated to Apple folks and ATT folks within one block of each store, and have been able to demonstrate it at will anyplace
Refusing to use a bumper to take care of a design flaw (guilty as charged here, I suppose)
Not knowing how to hold it (wait -- I don't know how to hold it to NOT get it to do this? - now I'm confused.

One thing is for sure - if Jobs can't fix this (hardware, not magic software), then my net worth will be coming down as fast as the "more bars in less places" ads that ATT wisely chose to ax (maybe they knew all along - nah, that's just crazy talk)"

It's a combination of two things...the antenna design and the quality of cell service getting to that antenna. The antenna design is what it is...it does reduce reception, being as exposed as it is. If the cell signal getting to it is good, then the reduction isn't as pronounced or evident. If your in a marginal area for reception, that antenna design makes the situation that much worse. So people with good cell service don't see it as much as others.

What doesn't help the issue are many people are coming from 3G/3GS phones to the iPhone 4 and seeing many more dropped calls and other issues, compared to their earlier iPhone's. Maybe if we were coming from other phones, the people who are having the issue wouldn't complain as much or notice as much. What also doesn't help the situation is the people having the issues are labeled as "trolls" and such.

As a fan of Apple products, the tech in me loves the new phone. As a consumer, I have the right to complain, if it's not meeting my expectations, especially when I compare it to my older 3GS which it replaced. That doesn't make me a "troll" just as much as the person who says they have no issues, would be a "fanboy"...

I think there is third element involved with this issue; that is skin conductivity.

I returned my phone last week because it would drop from 4 bars to no service if I made contact with the two antennas.

Stupidity should be painful. I switched from Verizon, which has impecable reception and got the iPhone 4 through AT&T. I paid an early termination fee, because I expected Apple to know how to make a phone by their 4th Generation, and have found that they made a world-class screw-up. Fortunately, I have discovered a work-around on the antenna issue - turn off the 3G and stick with EDGE and you get about ~10-12 dB better reception.

But, your statement about returning the iPhone is deeply flawed. First off, there is a 10% re-stocking fee - then if I leave AT&T I get a $325 fee for breaking the contract. So, my out of pocket fee is ~$400; not including the $100 I paid AT&T and the $200 I paid for my defective iPhone (and yes, an antenna that shorts out when you touch the phone is a defective product).

So, you obviusly think I should just suck it up, and quietly put up with this feces - ain't happening. You apparently don't have a dog in this fight - so as a person who does have the flawed, defective and partially functional iPhone 4 - please allow me to tell you to STFU. When you pony out your money, and you sign your contract like the rest of us - then you may open your trap and your mouth and your opinion will have merit. Right now, you are nothing but a contemptous fanboi.

You DO NOT fix a hardware defect, with a software patch. A noob would know this. Adjusting the bars so only 2 bars are shown when you have the phone on the table instead of 5 - BFD. I still drop the call if I touch my phone. Here's a news flash ... this is a cell phone that also plays games. It is not a game machine that sometimes makes phone calls too. See the difference? One functional is essential, one is frivilous - figure it out.

Consumer Reports screwed the pooch when they published a technical review without bothering to actually look at data. They pulled a hypothisis from a dark and unsanatary place - and have effectively soiled their magazines technical reputation by stating a flat out lie as the truth. Personally, I wonder how many iPhones that 'mistake' sold - and I wouldn't mind seeing CR get a multi-million dollar fine for their endorsement.

If you are going to open your mouth and make a statement - you had DAMN well better know what the frack you are talking about. CR couldn't be bothered with gathering facts, and that should cost them - it should cost them dearly. I have an idea there are some carboard boxes being filled with desktop belongings as we speak.

I'm angry, I have a dog in this fight; I have a sizeable investment and a 2yr contract that was made on a 'Good Faith' belief that Apple wasn't deliberately committing fraud. It certainly appears that way, doesn't it? Thus far, there is no ETA on the 'patch', and Apple is dodging the facts. Not so much as a "we are looking into this". Just sitting down and ignoring the problem - just like they have done since 2008 with their Time Capsule.

This is not the sort of behaviour would would expect from any reputable company. Apple, you wanted the world's attention - you have it now .... this should be your finest hour - you are making yourself look very, very bad on the international scene. Integrity means something - customers demand it.

Umm, there is no early termination fee if you cancel in 30 days. There are never restocking fees on iPhones. Please return it as soon as possible. Please. And then go be someone elses customer.

Are you kidding? I demonstrated it to both the Apple store guys and the ATT store guys before returning it for a refund. Denial anyone?

I'd like to know how you demonstrated this to an Apple employee it an AT&T employee. Both stores have AT&T repeaters in them, giving you perfect reception in either place. If the reception is good, you cannot make the "death grip" work. Sorry, you just can't. Period. Sometimes I wonder if the people complaining about iPhone actually own one. My guess is many do not.

WOW!!!
1984? Censorship? That is bad.
Apple needs to step up to the plate.
Not try to bury it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MediaPlex

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah... They DELETED my posts. Idiots.

Typical modern day way of dealing with problems. IGNORE them and hope they go away. ...blah, blah, blah, blah.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RationalTroll

Does Apple really believe that ditching forums posts will stop this story from circulating, or that the censorship won't become another story in itself?

Creepier by the day....

As many on this thread have already stated, Apple's Support Forums clearly state the following, "Search for an answer, post your question, or answer other users' questions in the Apple Discussions community." This is not a forum to state your opinion, discuss CR reports or bash a product and tell others not to buy/upgrade. This is a place to politely ask a question and see if you can get any resolution from others. Obviously you people don't read anything before you spout off. They had full right and obligation to delete these posts IMO.

I tried to warn people NOT to upgrade to iOS4 on a iPhone 3G as it wiped my phone and my wife's phone and pretty much rendered them useless. They DELETED my posts. Idiots.

Typical modern day way of dealing with problems. IGNORE them and hope they go away.

Message to Apple and Steve Jobs: WE WILL NEVER FORGET IOS4, AKA: YOUR "VISTA". The mere fact that you are DENYING and IGNORING this disaster is cause for great alarm. You are no longer trustworthy.

Totally agree. Upgrading my 3G to IOS4 made it as worthless at everything else as it is for making phone calls. Alas my contract was up yesterday and I cancelled my account so it doesn't matter anymore. Sad end to my two years of iPhone experience.

Agree if Apple doesn't act, this will be their Vista moment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton

Delete your anger. Search around the web. There is a way to return to iOS 3.1.3. Chill out.

Are you referring to that half baked procedure in MacWorld magazine which even they said doesn't always work? Okay, I'll give it a whirl. We'll see if it really works. Anyone in the know wont give me two cents for an iPhone 3G with iOS4 on it anyway.

I'd like to know how you demonstrated this to an Apple employee it an AT&T employee. Both stores have AT&T repeaters in them, giving you perfect reception in either place. If the reception is good, you cannot make the "death grip" work. Sorry, you just can't. Period. Sometimes I wonder if the people complaining about iPhone actually own one. My guess is many do not.

You are correct: to clarify, I had to go one block away from the Apple store and only 30 yards away from the ATT store to demonstrate it. I received mine on June 23rd, and returned it on July 9th. I don't appreciate your questioning my integrity.

...on Monday, the organization did a 180-degree turn, and advised customers not to buy the handset.

This is the kind of "reporting" that is nothing more than sensational pot stirring.

Dropping the "Recommended" rating is hardly the same thing as doing a 180 and advising consumers not to buy. It is the highest rated phone even with the reception problem taken into account. Can't get any better than that without a Recommended rating. CR chooses not to recommend when, in their opinion, there is a problem that needs to be fixed. If it was a 180, it would be near the bottom of the list. It is merely saying fix the antenna problem even though it is just slightly worse than most other phones.

I'd rather have an iPhone any day, and frankly I imagine most folks put theirs in a case of some sort, thus it will be a non-issue.

Yea right toyota just made cheap junk all these years. Sorry, not good enough. Data, need data. While I do think CR is too critical and narrow on issues and on what's good or bad, that's far different from fraud. In general they hit the mark. Their more recent reviews of Toyota have not put them on top. I suppose their recent no approval of the Lexus suv was fraud also? Which btw forced Lexus to recall and change their software. Pssst, why is that thing with foil on his hat staring at you?

Sorry but a cheap Toyota vs any American auto in the sameprice classis going to get spanked by Toyota. You have to spend $45,000 or more for a decent US auto and even then, your 45,000 is getting you a $25k car.

Interesting that people are saying it's a CR conspiracy. Lol.
Molly at CNET is calling for a 4 recall. So this is getting bigger and Apple is starting to look like they rushed it out. Remember the talk about the backup phone, just in case?? I wonder what that was all about.

I don't understand why people think they can put anything on Apple's Discussion boards. Their Apple's forums. Of course they're going to be biased about what's on THEIR own forums. Duh!

Uhum the words first amendment and freedom of speech really spring to mind. Yes they are their boards - but as long as no profanities are exchanged you are still entitled to your opinion AND airing it. No company has EVER gained by silencing their opponent. That would be a rather chinese approach - and they are not very popular for that (and other) reason(s).

What harm does it to Apple if you let run such a thread ? I mean really. The negative echo they are getting now far outweighs the stick they would have been getting in this thread. Not only does the media actively know about the thread (THE THREAD....) but now they know as well about the censorship. Get two negatives for the price of one is all I can say. It actually reminds me a bit of 1984, where Big Brother only tolerates what he likes. But hang on - were we not supposed to think different ?

Interesting that people are saying it's a CR conspiracy. Lol.
Molly at CNET is calling for a 4 recall. So this is getting bigger and Apple is starting to look like they rushed it out. Remember the talk about the backup phone, just in case?? I wonder what that was all about.

you can be sure this would be deleted by the apple discussion Nazis in a heartbeat.

Molly Woods is intelligent woman but I'd never listen to anything she says even though I may agree with her post which I will not read. She has an irrational hatred of Apple. It ha been admitted as such on TWIT. I'll always remember in 2007 that she said that the iPhone was never going to be released and when it was released she told people not to buy it on BOL. She then proceeded to buy an iPhone 3G the following year.

Uhum the words first amendment and freedom of speech really spring to mind. Yes they are their boards - but as long as no profanities are exchanged you are still entitled to your opinion AND airing it. No company has EVER gained by silencing their opponent. That would be a rather chinese approach - and they are not very popular for that (and other) reason(s).

What harm does it to Apple if you let run such a thread ? I mean really. The negative echo they are getting now far outweighs the stick they would have been getting in this thread. Not only does the media actively know about the thread (THE THREAD....) but now they know as well about the censorship. Get two negatives for the price of one is all I can say. It actually reminds me a bit of 1984, where Big Brother only tolerates what he likes. But hang on - were we not supposed to think different ?

Sorry man, dead wrong.

The first amendment applies only to the government's attitude towards what is and is not legally allowed to be spoken and expressed. It has no relation whatsoever to what a private individual or organization allows or does not allow on their own private property.

I'm not going to defend Apple for censoring the forums, as that's far beyond acceptable.

I will say however that I get better reception with my iPhone 4 than I did with my ancient 3G. On the train ride to work my 3G used to report 'no service' for most of the journey in. Now it's got a signal for about 75% of the journey. It may not be a very strong signal, but at least it's something.

Of course I can very quickly send it back to 'no service' by holding the bottom left corner...

For me Apple no More, I am moving to Ubuntu, after all Snow Leopard promess the fastest OS in the World, but instead of that I have the same old speed, while Ubuntu 10.04LTS is just amazing fast, ok there's some apps that only Mac has, but with Apple only working on iPhone, with no Mac OS X relevant evolution, iTunes is just making me scream, I am forced to give my credit card so I can download album covers, or I just can't play flac files easily, that's too much, it only syncs well with iPod or iPhone, I don't have any, I prefer other brand for that, but I own a Mac, but it just don't work anymore as it should work, and now Apple tries to shut the mouth of people!??? I have a damn bluetooth problem since Snow Leopard came out, that only works with the magic mouse, everything else and bluetooth crash, to say little, very strange. I waited for a year for the damn Java 6 on Snow Leopard 32 bits, and flash optimization as it seems is Apple fault because it just released source code to Adobe so it can optimize with Mac OS Core APIs, so wake up people. This Apple is rotten!!! It's NOT The same Apple that once said machines should be beautiful inside as outside, and OS X will be the most advanced system in the world, because today it is NOT!

we live in Switzerland, altough the iPhone 4 is not officially available here, we drove quickly over to France and bought a couple of iPhone 4. We came back and tested them really hard... espescially we tested this reception issue and we have no issues here.

We use Swisscom in Switzerland, that's the largest Operator and there are no dropped calls, no signal loss, nothing ! We use to touch it around the antenna, we even touched it with our tongue ! nothing... it works, no issues here...

We think you have a problem with the operator, in Switzerland there is absolutely no signal issues and dropped calls, nothing! Try to think out of the box and try it outside the US and you'll see it works perfectly.. and most of all, own one before you shout here !!!! The iPhone 4 has absolutely no problem, nothing!

I'm obviously missing something here - I have an iPhone four, as does my partner - as do about twenty of my friends. We cannot recreate this 'issue' on any of the phones. I went into the Orange mobile shop in town - couldn't make it happen to that phone either.

It's fast, battery life is great, call quality is as good as any phone i've used, we love facetime.

Maybe apple are calling this a non-issue because it is a non issue.

Maybe, just maybe, a small minority of this device suffer from the problem and it will be fixed by a software update in the near future as apple have said.

How many people posting in this forum a) have the iPhone4 and b) are experiencing this issue?

For me Apple no More, I am moving to Ubuntu, after all Snow Leopard promess the fastest OS in the World, but instead of that I have the same old speed, while Ubuntu 10.04LTS is just amazing fast, ok there's some apps that only Mac has, but with Apple only working on iPhone, with no Mac OS X relevant evolution, iTunes is just making me scream, I am forced to give my credit card so I can download album covers, or I just can't play flac files easily, that's too much, it only syncs well with iPod or iPhone, I don't have any, I prefer other brand for that, but I own a Mac, but it just don't work anymore as it should work, and now Apple tries to shut the mouth of people!??? I have a damn bluetooth problem since Snow Leopard came out, that only works with the magic mouse, everything else and bluetooth crash, to say little, very strange. I waited for a year for the damn Java 6 on Snow Leopard 32 bits, and flash optimization as it seems is Apple fault because it just released source code to Adobe so it can optimize with Mac OS Core APIs, so wake up people. This Apple is rotten!!! It's NOT The same Apple that once said machines should be beautiful inside as outside, and OS X will be the most advanced system in the world, because today it is NOT!

So because of a hardware issue, you're changing your operating system of choice, and moving to an open source project that doesn't produce hardware. Interesting logic.

The first amendment applies only to the government's attitude towards what is and is not legally allowed to be spoken and expressed. It has no relation whatsoever to what a private individual or organization allows or does not allow on their own private property.

Back to high school government class for you.

reality check. The first amendment is not unlimited. For example, you (as a private individual) cannot yell fire in a movie theater (private business and property). Neither can you (as a private individual) preach sedition or the assassination of the president. Nor is libel or slander considered free speech. Nor is pornography.

Apple has some damage control to do here. Whether there is an issue or not is not the question. Apple must take the steps needed to fix the problem or prove beyond a shadow of doubt that no problem exists. Apples actions thus far do nothing but bolster the belief that an issue does in fact have merit in fact and practice.
Although it would be very painful for Apple in the short term. A voluntary recall of the phone and a redesign of the casing. To pretend that all is just fine would be a page out of MS's book as they found out with Vista.
Respectfully submitted
HT

Apple has some damage control to do here. Whether there is an issue or not is not the question. Apple must take the steps needed to fix the problem or prove beyond a shadow of doubt that no problem exists. Apples actions thus far do nothing but bolster the belief that an issue does in fact have merit in fact and practice.
Although it would be very painful for Apple in the short term. A voluntary recall of the phone and a redesign of the casing. To pretend that all is just fine would be a page out of MS's book as they found out with Vista.
Respectfully submitted
HT

Why the hell should apple do something here ? again.. it works just fine here in Europe, no issues at all... ask around and see if there is one European who has a iPhone 4 if he has that issue ? try.... you should slowly ask if your operator and it's infrastructure is still state of the art! as mentioned before, we tested a couple of iPhones 4 here in Switzerland, on two operators now (Swisscom and Orange), no problem at all!! So why should Apple change something ? can't understand the logic here...

Sorry but a cheap Toyota vs any American auto in the sameprice classis going to get spanked by Toyota. You have to spend $45,000 or more for a decent US auto and even then, your 45,000 is getting you a $25k car.

I know this is deviating form the point, but I'll call that bet. Name the $25k Japanese car and the $45k U.S. made car and "no" you can't compare the Toyota Prius to the Chevrolet Volt (two different technologies). Walk the walk, as the saying goes.

Apple has every right to delete threads pointing to the obviously biased consumer reports article. The article cites results from tests that in no way mimic real life situations. No one who actually owns an iPhone experiences these symptoms. Anyone who says otherwise is either a troll or an android plant.

Pure speculation on your part. How can you say "No one who actually owns an iPhone experiences these symptoms"? You don't speak for me and I do own the faulty thing. Consumer reports is spot on dude. Such a fanboy.....

This is turning into a PR nightmare. If Apple wouldn't have jumped into the stupidity of denial mode to begin with, this would not be a big deal. If they would have simply said "we'll look into the reports" instead of making all the stupid remarks they've made, and offer free bumpers to any iPhone 4 owner who wants one, there would be no PR problem. Way to screw up the biggest product launch in their history.

The reality is, there is a problem, but it's also easily fixed. Apple just needs to pull their heads out of the sand and get to it already. The external side of the antennas need a non-conductive coating applied. That's it! Dang it, get it done already! Sheesh.

When it comes right down to it, the only company that's even been able to hurt Apple is Apple. Unfortunately they've been very adept at it throughout their history.

Pure speculation on your part. How can you say "No one who actually owns an iPhone experiences these symptoms"? You don't speak for me and I do own the faulty thing. Consumer reports is spot on dude. Such a fanboy.....

I don't believe your device is faulty, you just do not have the possibility to check it with another operator.. In Europe, not one phone has a problem.. We don't believe tha iPhones are the problem, the operator is...

Good engineering practice is to give the scope of your review. If you like the display, comment on that. If you like the battery life, comment on that. Take measurements.

But CR went several steps too far; they said that all phones drop bars when the phone is held, and that the iPhone 4 behaved similarily. This was obviously NOT THE TRUTH - that is a lie, or a very gross assumption.

Face it, CR grabbed a hypothesis from a dark and unsanitary place and plastered that hypothesis as fact - now they are eating that hypothesis and their credability as a legimate reviewing magazine is understandably being called into question.

This 180 degree (Oh Crap!!) change in review is pretty much inexcuseable for a magazine that is sold as an unbiased, honest, ad-free, engineering based assessment of all consumer goods. They went from a thumbs-up to a thumbs-down in a matter of weeks.

Heads are probably already rolling out the door.

More likely, the first time they tested it on perceived audio quality, the second time by measuring the dB drop. If the phone copes well on a low signal as found by AnandTech this is not too surprising.

we live in Switzerland, altough the iPhone 4 is not officially available here, we drove quickly over to France and bought a couple of iPhone 4. We came back and tested them really hard... especially we tested this reception issue and we have no issues here. We use to touch it around the antenna, we even touched it with our tongue ! nothing... it works, no issues here...

We think you have a problem with the operator, in Switzerland there is absolutely no signal issues and dropped calls, nothing! Try to think out of the box and try it outside the US and you'll see it works perfectly.. and most of all, own one before you shout here !!!! The iPhone 4 has absolutely no problem, nothing!

Don't mind. The more the americans return their iPhones to Apple, the faster its availability will improve elsewhere in the world, and sooner I'll be able to get iP4s for the rest of my family which is spread all over the "rest of the world", where reception is not a problem.

I don't believe your device is faulty, you just do not have the possibility to check it with another operator.. In Europe, not one phone has a problem.. We don't believe tha iPhones are the problem, the operator is...

Looking at the evidence here, there are too many people experiencing this problem for it not to be real.

However, there are too many NOT experiencing it for it to be a clear-cut pheomenon impacting everyone. In fact, many people - including myself - are seeing improved service and loving everything about the device!

The AT&T service area doesn't seem to matter, either. Some people in good service areas get it, some in bad service areas (I.e. San Francisco) don't.

I think the problem is with variations in people's hands. Some sweat a lot and some don't. Perhaps those who do are affected and those who don't are not?

In any case, the simple solution of buying a $30 bumper case seems to solve the problem for all. I didn't have any problem, but after a near death experience where I dropped my phone, fortunately without damage, i practically ran to the Apple Store and bought the case. I hated previous iPhone cases but really love this one, since they deftly added controls to the outside, making it a lot like having no case at all.

The phone is just plain amazing and I think you're nuts to return it without trying the case solution. I do think Apple should give away cases to those impacted by the problem. But I think Consumer Reports is making a mountain out of a molehill, and I am disappointed with how they handled the situation.

Consumer Report is flip-flopping, praising the iPhone one minute, then dismissing it, then doing some sleight-of-hand back-pedaling. There's no need to entertain any of that. Apple has every right to delete that nonsense from their own boards.

The first amendment applies only to the government's attitude towards what is and is not legally allowed to be spoken and expressed. It has no relation whatsoever to what a private individual or organization allows or does not allow on their own private property.

Back to high school government class for you.

Actually, political speech in the workplace is protected by the first amendment, so it does affect what is allowed on private property to that extent.

But, Apple has always deleted rant threads for as long as they've had support forums. They are support forums, and Apple doesn't fund them so people can come in and trash its products, there are plenty of other venues for that, like AI. That they deleted these doesn't really mean anything since deleting rant threads is a long-time policy, and these it seems were all basically rant threads.

Lest anyone think me a troll or fanboy, here's my post from earlier today on Marketwatch:
"It's nice to finally have an independent (sort of) testing agency validate my comments, which I've been making since around June 24th or so. People have accused me of:
Never owning an iPhone 4 (have since June 23rd)
Not knowing anything about research (I've done over 20 years of same)
Being an Apple hater (have almost 100% of my stock in Apple, and have since before the ip4 was released, and still own it today, so why would I broadcast this info to the world?)
It's all in my head, and can't be repeatable (demonstrated to Apple folks and ATT folks within one block of each store, and have been able to demonstrate it at will anyplace
Refusing to use a bumper to take care of a design flaw (guilty as charged here, I suppose)
Not knowing how to hold it (wait -- I don't know how to hold it to NOT get it to do this? - now I'm confused.

One thing is for sure - if Jobs can't fix this (hardware, not magic software), then my net worth will be coming down as fast as the "more bars in less places" ads that ATT wisely chose to ax (maybe they knew all along - nah, that's just crazy talk)"

None of the seasoned posters are accusing you, however. That's what matters most.

More likely, the first time they tested it on perceived audio quality, the second time by measuring the dB drop. If the phone copes well on a low signal as found by AnandTech this is not too surprising.