Anybody who is mad at Snowden for revealing what the NSA was doing needs to spend a couple of years being mad at the NSA for doing those things in the first place. If they have any outrage left after that, they can turn it on the small fry.

czetie:Anybody who is mad at Snowden for revealing what the NSA was doing needs to spend a couple of years being mad at the NSA for doing those things in the first place. If they have any outrage left after that, they can turn it on the small fry.

Not to mention AT&T and Verizon being let off the hook for billions of counts of illegal wiretapping.

Or Qwest being destroyed because they wouldn't play ball with the NSA. That was something to be outraged about. Nobody cares.

Marcus Aurelius:czetie: Anybody who is mad at Snowden for revealing what the NSA was doing needs to spend a couple of years being mad at the NSA for doing those things in the first place. If they have any outrage left after that, they can turn it on the small fry.

Not to mention AT&T and Verizon being let off the hook for billions of counts of illegal wiretapping.

Or Qwest being destroyed because they wouldn't play ball with the NSA. That was something to be outraged about. Nobody cares.

What really bugs me are all the nations biatching about it when their own nations are either spying on them as well or allowing the NSA access so they share data with them.

steamingpile:JasonOfOrillia: Is the Dumbass tag for Subby?No its for reality, sorry he is living in a prison essentially and can't leave until another place will grant him basically an open ended stay with no fear of deportation.

I don't think he thought his cunning plan all the way through, but I'm still getting a kick out of what he did to the NSA.

Kind of like Julian Assange. He might be an egomaniac dumbass in a lot of ways, but boy, did he stir up a lot of people who'd like to keep their secrets secret.

Sorry, but I'm going to have to with Subby on this one- what did he win? Everyone knows about the NSA spying now? So, what? Obama will stand up and say "That's terrible. Don't worry people, I'm on this." (actually, he already did), and nothing will change.

So, what was won?

(and, by the way, while saving democracy and all that, he also released stuff that had no business being released except to embarrass the U.S. to no real end - so fark him for that part)

GIS for "Russian Girls" brought this picture up from a Russian dating site. Man I love the information age.

That said, I know what the guy did was technically wrong. Yes, he betrayed an oath to his country. But I have a hard time being mad at him, because he did it for what he (presumably) thought was a good cause. He (presumably) believed his country committed a grave wrong, and revealed it to the world.

So, letter of the law verses the spirit of the law... I don't know, I can't really take a side on this one without feeling like a hypocrite to the other.

Edward Snowden says his "mission is accomplished" and that he has "already won." Because being branded a traitor, a spy, and a terrorist by your home countrylying, criminal fascists and a captive media that is failing to demonize this AMERICAN HERO and being forced to live in Russia is a great victory

Snowden set out to expose the vast, unseen, and unsupervised scope of the NSA and other US agencies spying operations. He's done that. Single handed he changed the discussion in this country on how we are 'protecting' ourselves, and the unseen cost of that protection. Seems like mission accomplished to me.

I have no problem with Snowden spending the rest of his life looking over his shoulder.

But I also think he is to some degree a hero.

The rub with being a martyr is the martyrdom bit. It shouldn't be costless to betray the secrets of your country. The only way to ensure that people are doing it for good reasons is to make sure they're ground up by the machinery afterward.

GIS for "Russian Girls" brought this picture up from a Russian dating site. Man I love the information age.

That said, I know what the guy did was technically wrong. Yes, he betrayed an oath to his country. But I have a hard time being mad at him, because he did it for what he (presumably) thought was a good cause. He (presumably) believed his country committed a grave wrong, and revealed it to the world.

So, letter of the law verses the spirit of the law... I don't know, I can't really take a side on this one without feeling like a hypocrite to the other.

He betrayed only those already betraying the oaths they wasted breath on.

snocone:He betrayed only those already betraying the oaths they wasted breath on.

Again, that's why I am conflicted. He did a disservice, at least in the short term, to American intelligence services and credibility. But long term, we may be better off because we get more transparency in our government. I've always been a proponent of airing dirty laundry where all can see when it comes to government, because while embarrassing now it lets us actually occupy the high ground we like to claim all the time.

Yeah, his great reveal to the world at just how intricate and in-depth the NSA's spying programs are has really shaken up the American people and outraged them to the point where they're forcing the government's hand to do away with them spying on citizens in their own country and abroad. Clearly, Snowden (and Julian Assange) have permanently altered the course of national and foreign policy on espionage as the majority of America is outraged enough to do something about it.

... wait, what? You mean the American people have decided they might be annoyed, but not outraged enough to do something about it? What? You mean they keep electing the same people who signed this being legal into the same office every election year? You mean their outrage consists of complaining on internet forums and on media outlets without any desire to change the way things are done?

What a victory, Edward Snowden. You showed the world what America was doing, how wrong it was, and outside of hollow insults and saber rattling... the world shrugged their shoulders and said they didn't care.

Weatherkiss:Yeah, his great reveal to the world at just how intricate and in-depth the NSA's spying programs are has really shaken up the American people and outraged them to the point where they're forcing the government's hand to do away with them spying on citizens in their own country and abroad. Clearly, Snowden (and Julian Assange) have permanently altered the course of national and foreign policy on espionage as the majority of America is outraged enough to do something about it.

... wait, what? You mean the American people have decided they might be annoyed, but not outraged enough to do something about it? What? You mean they keep electing the same people who signed this being legal into the same office every election year? You mean their outrage consists of complaining on internet forums and on media outlets without any desire to change the way things are done?

What a victory, Edward Snowden. You showed the world what America was doing, how wrong it was, and outside of hollow insults and saber rattling... the world shrugged their shoulders and said they didn't care.

Gee, I am having a difficult time coming up with the proper word.The NSA wasIS NOW all the way out of control and bullying legal corporations to join them in ILLEGAL activity that they were sworn to not do in the first farking place.Now they double down on the fascist derp and defy popular opinion, and THE LAW.

Remember that silly thing, THE LAW?All you sycophants are all foaming at the mouth to enforce zero tolerance prison for victimless "crimes" and destroy lives, families, and OMG, The Children for your crappy "LAW".But The LAW preventing NSA from alienating the ENTIRE PLANET against the USA, you pass on that one?

Know how this country lost all sense of morality and hope? By being full of people who think it's only worth doing something if it benefits themselves most of all. Success isn't always about you, subby.

Gunny Highway:Weatherkiss: Yeah, his great reveal to the world at just how intricate and in-depth the NSA's spying programs are has really shaken up the American people and outraged them to the point where they're forcing the government's hand to do away with them spying on citizens in their own country and abroad. Clearly, Snowden (and Julian Assange) have permanently altered the course of national and foreign policy on espionage as the majority of America is outraged enough to do something about it.

... wait, what? You mean the American people have decided they might be annoyed, but not outraged enough to do something about it? What? You mean they keep electing the same people who signed this being legal into the same office every election year? You mean their outrage consists of complaining on internet forums and on media outlets without any desire to change the way things are done?

What a victory, Edward Snowden. You showed the world what America was doing, how wrong it was, and outside of hollow insults and saber rattling... the world shrugged their shoulders and said they didn't care.

You expect things to change all at once, huh?

I was kind of expecting a French Revolution type deal, yes. I can compromise though. If there's any proof that things are changing for the better in terms of what he revealed, I'll gladly read it and eat my words.

Remember when PFC Manning was the heroic whistleblower who revealed the abuses of power the Bush Administration was perpetrating?

/Google does//maybe it's because Snowden hasn't joined the LGBT community yet///wait, no, all the references to Manning being a hero are from before he had the operation... and the very same pundits started calling him a traitor shortly after... hmm