Seeking - Think Atheist2017-08-18T05:18:02Zhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/forum/topics/seeking?commentId=1982180%3AComment%3A1277999&xg_source=activity&feed=yes&xn_auth=noThanks for the reply.
As I sa…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-03-20:1982180:Comment:12789802013-03-20T22:43:29.142ZLisa Larkhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/LisaLark
<p>Thanks for the reply.</p>
<p>As I said before, going abroad gave me the closure and confidence in being atheist, but I also had moments of doubt as you describe, probably during my senior year, the months leading up to my year abroad. I often said to myself 'no matter how much I want to believe, I can't anymore', and I hoped it was a phase one moment, the next moment ready to embrace it, and back and forth. This was because I had let those doubts creep just deep enough that I couldn't…</p>
<p>Thanks for the reply.</p>
<p>As I said before, going abroad gave me the closure and confidence in being atheist, but I also had moments of doubt as you describe, probably during my senior year, the months leading up to my year abroad. I often said to myself 'no matter how much I want to believe, I can't anymore', and I hoped it was a phase one moment, the next moment ready to embrace it, and back and forth. This was because I had let those doubts creep just deep enough that I couldn't shake them. I didn't spend too much time dwelling on it, because religion had never been more to me than an hour or two once a week, but I see now that this is the phase you are in and I agree this is a difficult place to be.</p>
<p>Especially with the large part of your life you have dedicated to Christianity I can imagine your struggle is much more significant than my own. I was lucky that my trip abroad took me from the confusing setting and placed me somewhere where I could evaluate things with fresh eyes. You are doing just the right thing by seeking support, advice, and knowledge, because one day you will have your aha moment like I did by going abroad!</p>
<p>I know that everyone is different, but I'll try once again to share part of my own journey in hopes of helping you with yours: the one thing that really started to plant the seeds of doubt in my own faith when I was growing up was when I learned about other religions, or hearing about the history of Christianity, roman and Greek gods, and such in history class. I remember the first time I had ever come across the idea of religions being man made in 6th grade learning about ancient cultures and it blew my mind. It made so much sense and I immediately began applying it to all religions I knew of...I got to Christianity and just kind of got confused and backed off because it was..."true?" I didn't notice anything at the time, but looking back, it was the first time I really had a reason to question what everyone had always taught me my whole life.</p>
<p>Maybe you are already very learned when it comes to other religions, but if you aren't, it could be a great place to research...maybe you will see the patterns that helped me to place Christianity into the same category as all other religions. If you can understand what it is about other religions that allows you to truly believe they are false, then you may find your way to believe one religion further.</p>
<p>On a separate note, the one thing that kept me connected to religion for so long was the people I was around. Once I went to any other church, it became clear that church hadn't been such a good experience because of the religion, but because of the people there. Look back at those religious experiences that you continue to hold on to...that make it the hardest for you to let go...figure out what about that experience was so powerful, but in a non-religious context, and you may find your closure.</p> Thanks. I don't know if going…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-03-20:1982180:Comment:12790332013-03-20T21:03:57.753ZPhyseterhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Physeter
<p>Thanks. I don't know if going abroad made me doubt, if anything I saw God at work there. I miss that feeling. I really thought I saw that God was working in the world, however subtly, that he was speaking to me, and that the biggest doubts I had could never cover up faith.</p>
<p>I went through an intense training program where we prayed and talked about God every day with limited alone time, access to internet/news, and even freedom. Then I went to a country very far from where I grew up,…</p>
<p>Thanks. I don't know if going abroad made me doubt, if anything I saw God at work there. I miss that feeling. I really thought I saw that God was working in the world, however subtly, that he was speaking to me, and that the biggest doubts I had could never cover up faith.</p>
<p>I went through an intense training program where we prayed and talked about God every day with limited alone time, access to internet/news, and even freedom. Then I went to a country very far from where I grew up, with no outside contact, where people believe in spirits and stuff. Once I got back home into familiar settings, I started to see all the problems we'd had on our trip, how they could be explained without god just as well as with god. I started to read all these atheist blogs and ways of thinking, and not liking how much I agreed with it.</p>
<p>As I write this part of me still wonders if I just let my faith die out. Maybe if I hadn't gone into my old "familiar" habits. Maybe if I had kept reading the bible regularly (I gave it up). Maybe if I prayed more (I still pray, but it's usually 'God let me know if your real' or 'God forgive me if I'm wrong here'). Maybe if I had immediately sought out a group of my peers that I could worship with and talk about faith (it's hard to find a good Christian group and even harder to find an atheist group now that I want that). Part of me still says Chstianity is true, I just walked away from it.</p>
<p>I want to embrace realism. I want to become fully assured of what's true, without constantly worrying or looking back. I hope I can find my way.</p> Me tootag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-03-20:1982180:Comment:12791072013-03-20T20:50:38.736ZPhyseterhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Physeter
<p>Me too</p>
<p>Me too</p> I'm surprised how much "react…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-03-20:1982180:Comment:12791012013-03-20T20:47:27.554ZPhyseterhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Physeter
<p>I'm surprised how much "reaction" I'm feeling in myself right now. Like force of habit or tradition (or longing for when belief was simpler) is fighting back against me saying out loud (here on the internet, not to people I know) that I'm possibly atheist. </p>
<p>I did order a couple books, I'll have to remember that one. My local public library is really low on atheist resources, although you can easily find books that argue <em>against</em> atheism.</p>
<p>I'm surprised how much "reaction" I'm feeling in myself right now. Like force of habit or tradition (or longing for when belief was simpler) is fighting back against me saying out loud (here on the internet, not to people I know) that I'm possibly atheist. </p>
<p>I did order a couple books, I'll have to remember that one. My local public library is really low on atheist resources, although you can easily find books that argue <em>against</em> atheism.</p> @Physeter - Welcome - I think…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-03-20:1982180:Comment:12785682013-03-20T08:16:21.406ZSuzanne Olson-Hydehttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Suzanne
<p>@Physeter - Welcome - I think you could feel 'obliged' to come out, because you find it difficult to keep things hidden, because you are basically a 'good' person, and not because you were a 'christian'.</p>
<p>You don't 'have' to tell anybody. Sort stuff out in your own mind, ask any questions you want here, no question is too silly, read other peoples 'journey' to get rid of the 'fear' of hell, it could take a while, don't rush it, and you too will see the light :)</p>
<p>Everybody has a…</p>
<p>@Physeter - Welcome - I think you could feel 'obliged' to come out, because you find it difficult to keep things hidden, because you are basically a 'good' person, and not because you were a 'christian'.</p>
<p>You don't 'have' to tell anybody. Sort stuff out in your own mind, ask any questions you want here, no question is too silly, read other peoples 'journey' to get rid of the 'fear' of hell, it could take a while, don't rush it, and you too will see the light :)</p>
<p>Everybody has a different reason for leaving religion behind, and they come from all parts of the world - that in itself is an education. My reason for leaving catholicism, was first , hypocrisy of organised religion, then I just couldn't believe that a god made everything, the universe, stars, planets, suns, then, humans born with sin, and then, concerns himself with who is begetting who, and then, perpetrates some of the most evil acts. The more one reads, the more the bible doesn't make sense. The bible is actually what finally convinced me, it wasn't' true. It could well be a very enjoyable journey getting rid of the yoke you have around your neck, to be a good person, just because you are :)</p>
<p>If you have the time or the inclination, have a look at this - <a href="http://www.clergyproject.org/" target="_blank">http://www.clergyproject.org/</a></p> I don't know exactly what it…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-03-20:1982180:Comment:12786602013-03-20T06:52:46.948ZLisa Larkhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/LisaLark
<p>I don't know exactly what it was that triggered your change of mind about religion, and what I have to say may not be relevant to your life, but I identify greatly with the idea of going abroad providing clarity.</p>
<p>I was raised in the church and was very active all through high-school, going to church every week and such. Though I was never super into it, I accepted it because it was all I knew.</p>
<p>Once I spent a year abroad, I was surrounded by "christians" yet I realized how…</p>
<p>I don't know exactly what it was that triggered your change of mind about religion, and what I have to say may not be relevant to your life, but I identify greatly with the idea of going abroad providing clarity.</p>
<p>I was raised in the church and was very active all through high-school, going to church every week and such. Though I was never super into it, I accepted it because it was all I knew.</p>
<p>Once I spent a year abroad, I was surrounded by "christians" yet I realized how different something that was supposed to be the same religion actually was, and that it really only depended on where you were. The religion you follow is directly related to where you grow up, nothing else. This made me realize that there was no way there was any truth to religion: that it was all created by man.</p>
<p>This fits well with one of my favorite books: Shogun. The idea of going abroad and experiencing a different culture. To me, the book is all about finding connections and truths that remain true for all humanity, while learning to filter out the cultural truths that keep us apart. Religious truths, like cultural truths, will be different with every person you meet, and you have to be able to let go of these in order to truly understand people from other backgrounds. The most exciting part of these experiences however is when you discover those human truths: the things that will be true for all people, no matter their religion or culture...like compassion, laughter, love, etc.</p>
<p>I love learning more and more about different cultures and customs, and I want to have the knowledge of as many of them as I can, yet ironically, by doing so, culture loses its power over me and cultural truths are replaced by human truths. </p>
<p>I hope this all makes sense and isn't just me blabbering away, and you may be wondering what this has to do with your post, but I wanted to share with you because this part of my own journey is what has allowed me personally to not struggle with the things you talk about having a hard time with. I am at peace with my rejection of everything I once so genuinely believed because accepting atheism has been a rational discovery. The more I learned, the less compelling religion became. </p>
<p>The ultimate way to discover what life is really all about: immerse yourself in as many different cultures as possible and you will see the patterns...these patterns will make it clear to you why things have become the way they are, and you will clearly see that religion, like culture, is man-made. When it becomes so clear to you in this way, you have all the closure you need because it has been a logical and experimental discovery. </p>
<p>Many of us often say atheism is embracing realism, and this is what happened with me. If your experience has been anything like mine, it is likely at the core of your own transformation, and the more knowledge you obtain, the more at peace with atheism you will be, and it will hopefully start to feel less like a "painful divorce' and more like an exciting discovery.</p> When I finally stopped believ…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-03-19:1982180:Comment:12784002013-03-19T20:05:13.213ZCJoehttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Cara83
<p>When I finally stopped believing the god of the Bible was real, I was excited that I'd get to leave behind the notion of an impending apocalypse. It was such a relief to not have to worry about the Tribulation, or the Rapture, or the Second coming, or my friends burning in Hell forever... and what's been disappointing is how shitty things are even without all that nonsense. I thought I was walking out into the sunshine after a really bad, long nightmare, but now we have to deal with all…</p>
<p>When I finally stopped believing the god of the Bible was real, I was excited that I'd get to leave behind the notion of an impending apocalypse. It was such a relief to not have to worry about the Tribulation, or the Rapture, or the Second coming, or my friends burning in Hell forever... and what's been disappointing is how shitty things are even without all that nonsense. I thought I was walking out into the sunshine after a really bad, long nightmare, but now we have to deal with all these people who are still sleep-walking and think all of the above is true; who deny climate-change, women's rights, evolution, vaccine's, and personal responsibility.</p>
<p>Sure, I don't have to worry about seven years of natural disasters that destroy 1/3 of the world... just people overfishing the ocean and killing 80% of its sea life, or killing elephants within an inch of extinction because they think their tusks are magic, or refusing Africans access to condoms to reduce the spread of HIV &amp; AIDs, or giant super-hurricanes caused by climate change. Wow. So much better! O_o</p> For me it was because I was 1…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-03-19:1982180:Comment:12783072013-03-19T20:04:55.169ZHeather Spoonheimhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/HeatherSpoonheim
<p>For me it was because I was 15 years old and everyone I knew thought the bible was 'the word of Gawd'. I had no idea that there were people who viewed it as a book and critiqued it as a book.</p>
<p></p>
<p>For me it was because I was 15 years old and everyone I knew thought the bible was 'the word of Gawd'. I had no idea that there were people who viewed it as a book and critiqued it as a book.</p>
<p></p> Why is it that we think and f…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-03-19:1982180:Comment:12783992013-03-19T19:52:51.377ZJoritahttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Jorita
<p>Why is it that we think and feal this way? Is it because we have been so conditioned to belief that anything you do that goes against others religion is something to be ashamed of. Is it because of the fear of what others are going to think of us? Is it the fear of being ridiculed? Is all these things so deeply ingrained in our lives? I know that for the first 3 years I told nobody, now my family know and one of the things I had to deal with in comming from a conservative small town is that…</p>
<p>Why is it that we think and feal this way? Is it because we have been so conditioned to belief that anything you do that goes against others religion is something to be ashamed of. Is it because of the fear of what others are going to think of us? Is it the fear of being ridiculed? Is all these things so deeply ingrained in our lives? I know that for the first 3 years I told nobody, now my family know and one of the things I had to deal with in comming from a conservative small town is that I would actually loos bussiness if people had to know what I belief or not belief in. At home I get the comments from time to time, my man just told me that I should tell the guys on the blog to start praying and stop talkin sh@t. What is it with the fear of knowledge!</p> I remember when I checked "Go…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-03-19:1982180:Comment:12782732013-03-19T19:06:42.942ZSagacious Hawkhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/SagaciousHawk
<p>I remember when I checked "God is not Great" out of the library. I held the book upside down so no one could see the title.</p>
<p>I remember when I checked "God is not Great" out of the library. I held the book upside down so no one could see the title.</p>