1st of all. making music it's all about trial and error ,but, i don't think it's right to hide yourself under a rock making beats and trying to get better at it before coming to stbb.
actually, i would encourage people to join in and learn from the older cats. and pushing some boundaries with challenging samples that maybe they woudn't flip in a regular situation,

and 2nd of all. and as i said before, people who bring the "originality" subject on here. and puts S.F.T name in front of it clearly have no idea of what they are talking about.
i have nothing against this dude, and i know he has some hype in stbb. but that's all it is. nothing new that we haven't already heard
from flylo and all the dilla fans..

back to the main subject,

there are a handfull of other skilled people here who i don't see getting some proper consideration. people who i rarely see being voted on.
so maybe, it's just a matter of personal taste of yourself, and not about quality.

and by the way.. i don't remember seeing a "no microwave beat" rule on the battles.
if you wanna keep adding rules like not joining if you are unskilled. you might aswell add
"need to join madlib beats school and get your litentiate degree on it"

It's more about the process and hearing what everybody's take on the sample. I honestly could care less about who wins. If I dig your sh*t. I'm gonna leave a comment and/ or like it. Theres a lot a dope cats on this board and a lot to be learned from everybody. Even the tracks that bore me. I generally get something from it. But I'm new.. What the F*** do I know.

For me it's not about who wins either. You're also right that it's about the process and hearing everybody's take on the sample. But please explain to me how you're gonna learn more from 50 beats that are identical, than from just 5 who are mad dope and original? That was my only point.

1st of all. making music it's all about trial and error ,but, i don't think it's right to hide yourself under a rock making beats and trying to get better at it before coming to stbb.

Yes, MAKING MUSIC is about trial and error. Taking part in a BEAT BATTLE is about bringing something to the table.

actually, i would encourage people to join in and learn from the older cats. and pushing some boundaries with challenging samples that maybe they woudn't flip in a regular situation,

Exactly. So you don't disagree with ALL I said.

and 2nd of all. and as i said before, people who bring the "originality" subject on here. and puts S.F.T name in front of it clearly have no idea of what they are talking about.i have nothing against this dude, and i know he has some hype in stbb. but that's all it is. nothing new that we haven't already heardfrom flylo and all the dilla fans..

LOL dude, I'm not even gonna try to argue with you about it. I strongly disagree and this is a damn disrespectful thing to say about someone who's won this battle like 10 times.

Also, I don't see how these adds ANYTHING to the discussion. Just replace "SFT" with whatever guy you think is original. My point remains the same.

there are a handfull of other skilled people here who i don't see getting some proper consideration. people who i rarely see being voted on.so maybe, it's just a matter of personal taste of yourself, and not about quality.

This isn't about different tastes. It's about different ATTITUDES.

and by the way.. i don't remember seeing a "no microwave beat" rule on the battles.if you wanna keep adding rules like not joining if you are unskilled. you might aswell add"need to join madlib beats school and get your litentiate degree on it"

Again, if you had actually read my posts, I encouraged all the newcomers to keep taking part. Bringing something to the table is something anybody, whatever his skill level, can do. Like I said, it's about attitude. Yours kinda underlines my point.

i joined this forum bc of the beat battles about a yr or so ago and i eventually fell off, i never logged in except to vote, but one time the week that dibiase submitted a track i commented on something on the boards and mentioned there was too many beats to sort thru that week( and at that point in time there was hardly 2 pages of votes each week) and the lama himself commented next saying the battle had been crowded before and i regretted my statement bc i wasnt mad he joined in , but thats how it got interpretted. really i was just disgusted that there was a million late beats from people joining in once they heard he was in that week, and then i saw there really are two sides to the arguments on here (esp voting, rules, participation) and i decided somehow i was taking these battles to seriously myself and i was never even a contender!
now i hope to join in now and again but mostly i just check the battles hoping peanutbutterwolf will jump in with a loopmash he made in 5 mins haha i realized too many people is a goodthing styles that stand out still stand out cool tracks come and go
comeplete side note is these battles go way back the only reason i know is bc mellowyouth does a lot of work keeping track of it and theres some real Ogs still around so just keep it in mind outta respect
and its pretty sweet that stones throw gave it some press wow i losing my point i hate typing on my phone

Lets Just get some ST Pioneers like SFT,Jondo,dino,ogi,ben,rob,enzo,sape etc in a private forum,to discuss some new Plans,cause there are truly to many trashy ass flips,for real guys,lets make it more pragmatic like we used too

Let's give it a bit of time, I hope my post did shake people awake a bit, and that a no vote = out rule will bring back some discipline to the game. If it doesn't, I'm out of here and this would definitely an option for me. I've been thinking the same thing, and I know for a fact that at least some of the OG's would be in for it. I'm a web developer and I can set up a private forum in 10 minutes if needed. I hope it won't be necessary.

I will give my opinion on this. I was a regular beatdropper and voter for the first year. Later on I became what i am now. I push my beat in, listen to some beats. If i have a lotta time i listen to all and vote. But in 77% if the weeks this year i didn' t vote.

So i am one of the problem kids in here.
Since i Moved in with my girl, i don' t spend taht much time on the Sound cloud group listening.
I wouldn' t have a Problem if i couldn'" t be voted. Cause i just wanna turn my style in and share some creativity. But i think if u want to downsize the number of contenders u have to do otherwise.
Harder rules. Crazier samples.

For me anything else wont clean the soundcloud group. Cause i could throw in whatever i want to let it be heard. I wish i could describe it in a better way...

i know for a fact that a lotta people don't vote cause they just wanna share and maybe get some feedback on soundcloud,
and i'm fine with that, these battles are unofficial, the prize is nothing, so there's no reason to start implementing more rules

I will give my opinion on this. I was a regular beatdropper and voter for the first year. Later on I became what i am now. I push my beat in, listen to some beats. If i have a lotta time i listen to all and vote. But in 77% if the weeks this year i didn' t vote.

So i am one of the problem kids in here.Since i Moved in with my girl, i don' t spend taht much time on the Sound cloud group listening.I wouldn' t have a Problem if i couldn'" t be voted. Cause i just wanna turn my style in and share some creativity. But i think if u want to downsize the number of contenders u have to do otherwise.Harder rules. Crazier samples.

For me anything else wont clean the soundcloud group. Cause i could throw in whatever i want to let it be heard. I wish i could describe it in a better way...

i know for a fact that a lotta people don't vote cause they just wanna share and maybe get some feedback on soundcloud,and i'm fine with that, these battles are unofficial, the prize is nothing, so there's no reason to start implementing more rules

I hear you enzo, and I also agree we should have harder rules/samples, or at least some interesting variations. All too often the only difference in the rules is: synths or no synths.

I wouldn't necessarily want to downsize the number of contenders with the no-vote thing. I just think it would be a good start to help raise a certain level of involvement and quality.

I think your tracks are amongst those that really add something to this group. However I still think if you don't vote you should be disqualified, and if you repeat this, say 3 times, banned from participating at all. I can most definitely respect your spirit (that you don't mind not being voted for and still post tracks just for the love). But I'm also thinking about the 30 other guys who don't have this spirit and who just post a track for the listens and comments…

@AtomHeartMoo The comments you get on soundcloud, I don't exactly consider as the best way to get "feedback" on your track. If you really want some proper feedback, why not ask about it on this forum, or some guys in private?

Really, what's so hard about listening to all the tracks and casting out a vote... Like montyshoewalker said, 99% of the time it's out of laziness, and you do spend time making the beat. So isn't it the least we could do to help maintain the integrity of the group?

What affects me the most in a negative way is the way people are voting. There are so many people submitting their music and it usually ends up with like 20 people voting, maybe even less. I try to enter some competitions, I do not have time to enter each week, but I always vote and listen each song and try to give some positive feedback on it. If I don't like the beat, I simply do not comment on it. I appreciate each liste and comment on my beat and that is what brings me back in times to enter a beat contest. I never got any vote, but I don't really care for the vote itself, I love to hear everyone getting creative with their own project.

To bad I have to agree with OP, beats are getting a bit lazy, most sound like a Dilla or Madlib rip-off and getting filled up with millions of synth sounds so that you can't hear the sample anymore. I'm not saying my beats are that great, but I'm making what I like and not trying to sound like someone else. The most fun for me is to get creative with the sample and go strange with it. When the beat turns out as shit I simply do not enter the contest.

For a start, maybe it would be a good idea to ban anybody who posts but doesn't vote (unless you have a good reason)

That's a great idea! First start with a warning and write down the person. If done a second or third time you should ban the person from the Soundcloud Group. I think that will be the most succesful way to keep the group serious. I like all beats and really put effort in listening to all the beats in the battle, but I feel disrespected if that person does not vote in the forum.

Haven't participated in a while, last few months have been ridiculously busy, I don't know what the current level of entries is but here's my point of view.

This isn't the first time ST has promoted the battles on their homepage and so it isn't the first time a lot of people joined in. Most of them will be gone again in a few weeks and the ones that stay will help lift the battles to a greater level in the long run.

Also: people not participating and a great number of beats being 'not quite there yet' has always been the case. For most producers participating, this has been a great learning school, I think everyone of us entered at a stage where they couldn't really match the beats by fellow producers. Maybe seeing other beats as weaker than before is just you growing as a producer.

Also, people ranting about how the beat battles are loosing their edge has been frequent.

I don't think there is a problem and I don't think there need to be changes. If someone feels like you can only enter when you vote he'd better make something beautiful so he can pick the rules for the next round.

cut it back to 1 sample only instead of 3. pick challenging samples and voila

THIS. i've never won before, but i've already made up my rules in the event that i do...and trust me, they would be way more strict than what these cats have been lately on the boards. you'd think 3 samples are adding variety to the battles, but instead they're just mucking up the works. there's always gonna be newbies that don't know how to flip a sample, you can't avoid that. there's also always gonna be people who have time to flip a beat, but not necessarily 2 hours to listen to every single entry week after week...it sucks, but that's just the fact.

but i don't think turning this into hip-hop Auschwitz is gonna make it any better-- i would hate to see these battles dip down as low as the other ones we tried to get going just a few weeks back that have already fizzled out (ahem, DOOM Remixes...), and that could just as easily happen over here if you guys aren't careful. what i think is people need to step up...Speekless, you complain that all these vets aren't battling anymore and need to come back; you're from that same era though, so you knew what it took to make a truly great beat. methinks you need to step it up, and become a leader of sorts if no one else is willing.

can you imagine how rough these battles would be if all these aforementioned dudes were still participating every week? there would be absolutely NO chance for any newcomers to win, at least now we're at this weird place where anyone can step out and stand out if they're willing to put the effort in...you all have to remember that Robot/SFT/Dinobeatz/JW/Dibia$e/Ras were all newcomers themselves at some point. and based on my own experience, i'm willing to wager that they all have had periods coming up where they came out with some dare i say 'whack shit'...it's all part of the learning process.

and you guys are trying to wrestle that concept into submission in exchange for some nostalgia from two years back. it's very self-serving and hipster-ish to say "these battles suck now; i remember when they were GOOD two-three years ago when none of you people participating now even knew about them...they were only cool when i knew about them and no one else..."

i mean hey, i'm probably not gonna sway any opinions with my rant-- but hopefully i can at least make some of you aware of how you're sounding and how fascist you guys are trying to be in turning these fun little battles into something way more serious than need be, whether it's intentional or not. that's all.

This isn't the first time ST has promoted the battles on their homepage and so it isn't the first time a lot of people joined in. Most of them will be gone again in a few weeks and the ones that stay will help lift the battles to a greater level in the long run.

Not arguing with that, but one of my points was that some of the best ones amongst us aren't staying, for the reasons I mentioned.

Also: people not participating and a great number of beats being 'not quite there yet' has always been the case. For most producers participating, this has been a great learning school, I think everyone of us entered at a stage where they couldn't really match the beats by fellow producers. Maybe seeing other beats as weaker than before is just you growing as a producer.

I don't mind a lot of beats not being "quite there yet". My beats aren't quite there yet either. I was talking about dudes going in with a better attitude. And more dudes staying in that can bring fire.

And yes, part of this definitely is my growing as a producer, I would have never said something like this a year ago, but I think this only underscores my point. Should my growing as a producer have the consequence that I can't stand these beat battles anymore? It's pretty sad if reaching a certain level would mean there's not much left to be a learned here…

Also, people ranting about how the beat battles are loosing their edge has been frequent.

Frequency of the rants doesn't make the rants any less valid… quite the opposite. I don't see how people would be ranting if everything was running smoothly. I could also simply get out. But I happen to be a guy who cares a lot about these beat battles, as the amount of time I spend writing and replying yo all these posts should prove to you. I'm trying to do something for this community cause I know I'm not alone, and a lot of really good beatmakers that we'd all rather have stay here, keep falling off because of the reasons I mentioned.

I don't think there is a problem and I don't think there need to be changes.

I, and a lot of others who voiced their frustration here, happen to think there is a problem... That's the whole point. Many of us are going crazy over this. Maybe you don't care that much about it, but a lot of us do. I don't think you are considering this thing as a group.

In order to make this the best for EVERYBODY, it seems like a very small inconvenience from you guys to agree with enforcing this no-vote = disqual thing, instead of maintaining the status quo. It would make a BIG difference for us, and I'm sure this would push a lot of cats we want to stay in here, to keep participating.. And frankly, I don't even see how mandatory voting could be considered an inconvenience, it's just fairness to me. Maybe give it a shot, and see what happens? I don't see how this can be anything but positive for all of us, including you guys who disagree with me.

I strongly disagree with this "just leave it" mentality. This can only have negative consequences like real passionate MF's leaving. Something HAS to happen. For me it does, and so it does for a lot of others who I speak to, or who've spoken up here. If that means I, and ultimately all the cats that voiced their frustration here, will leave, so be it. I have nothing to lose here. But sorry guys, I will take this discussion to its very end, and put your arguments to the test.

Give me one good reason not to vote and I will revise my opinion, but all I've heard here so far is "I don't like this idea", "I'm too lazy" or "it's been like that forever so why change it". That doesn't seem very convincing to me, but you're still leaving a lot of us out in the cold because of it.

If someone feels like you can only enter when you vote he'd better make something beautiful so he can pick the rules for the next round.

If it was that easy, best believe that I would make it a challenge. I try to make something beautiful and get the very best out of myself every round, but that doesn't mean I get to pick the rules. Yet.

So can we start enforcing the no vote = disqualification rule? Seems only logical and fair to me.

Yeah I want that for sure, on a side note I think we're done popping off at each other, if we can all focus on how to re-structure what doesn't work it would help, some of the best battles have been a good sample and objectives, I say objectives because rules cause the arguments nearly the whole time. Half want strict boundaries, and the other half just let it all go, the voting has always been a joke, to me it seems based around what you like rather than voting for the best beat, so if you think about the amount of samey beats and the votes, you can't blame their inexperienced ear for voting what they do, I've been on here just over a year and learnt more than I have at any other point, it's like a crash coarse in production, and there is nothing better than people messaging you saying, your progressing, or you have got better. It depends on what you want from these battles for yourself. In my head a battle beat is a dam heavy war beat that when it's dropped, there is going to be a riot, there is one cat on here who shows up every week with a banger but is ignored constantly, I'm talking about Mirs (think thats how you say his name). There is nothing worse for me than a really well constructed beat getting beaten, by some soft love song ish!! it's a fucking battle, but we're tickling each other with feathers. and it would be nice if people were just bloody honest on the comments, if some kid is doing the same shit each week, not progressing, then pull him up, help him out. otherwise we will be listening to 50 wack beats each week, no more, yeah mayne fat beat, or Oooh your drums are so heavy. In other words I don't like the song but I've managed to say something positive so I don't look like a beat troll. I'm guilty I have to say. Be nice to see the battle faq deleted, and a new updated, working one started, just to make things easier and clearer. It must be simple cos of the language barrier,and I take my hats off to some cats, they cope really well. Atoms view on S.T.F ha ha ha !!! sorry but the swing king is original. Glad Es-K jumped in, that cat can spot faults and says it how it is, and I've progressed a lot due to his honesty.

but i don't think turning this into hip-hop Auschwitz is gonna make it any better-- i would hate to see these battles dip down as low as the other ones we tried to get going just a few weeks back that have already fizzled out (ahem, DOOM Remixes...), and that could just as easily happen over here if you guys aren't careful. what i think is people need to step up...Speekless, you complain that all these vets aren't battling anymore and need to come back; you're from that same era though, so you knew what it took to make a truly great beat. methinks you need to step it up, and become a leader of sorts if no one else is willing.

I think you misunderstood me. I'm not complaining that these vets aren't battling anymore and need to come back.. Only raised the question why it would be that way, and I think a lot of is due to some of the reasons I mentioned (can't speak for any of these guys, of course).

I just think those kinds of guys are the ppl who truly raise the bar for everybody. And I would be very happy to see more dudes like that stand up, and stay in. And yes I know what it takes to make a truly great beat, best believe I try it every time. But unfortunately I'm still far from the level of these guys! I would love to take the lead in this, I just don't have the skill for it.

Also, there still is enough talent in here to make something worthwhile, guys like Sixfingerz have been on fire lately, but some of us/them are coming to a point where it's not very motivating to take part anymore. I love these beat battles but it's simply becoming too much of a frustration exercise. I'm sure other new guys will stand up as well, but it should be hellfire every week, imo. And for that, we need to up the level, ourselves and as a group.

Hip-Hop Auschwitz seems a bit of a stretch when all I'm proposing is that the voting rule be more strict, cause it's driving ppl nuts and hurting these battles imo. I still want this to be an open and inviting battle to anybody.

can you imagine how rough these battles would be if all these aforementioned dudes were still participating every week? there would be absolutely NO chance for any newcomers to win, at least now we're at this weird place where anyone can step out and stand out if they're willing to put the effort in...you all have to remember that Robot/SFT/Dinobeatz/JW/Dibia$e/Ras were all newcomers themselves at some point. and based on my own experience, i'm willing to wager that they all have had periods coming up where they came out with some dare i say 'whack shit'...it's all part of the learning process.

I can imagine and I actually think it would be awesome... Like I said being surrounded by fire pushes me to get the best of myself and progress quicker, more than I ever could do on my own. But your scenario is a bit of an exaggeration. There will always be whack beats and the goal is not to eradicate them. The goal is to have more emphasis on the good stuff, because so many whack beats and fewer bangers, brings a shadow over these battles.

and you guys are trying to wrestle that concept into submission in exchange for some nostalgia from two years back. it's very self-serving and hipster-ish to say "these battles suck now; i remember when they were GOOD two-three years ago when none of you people participating now even knew about them...they were only cool when i knew about them and no one else..."

If you leave this week with an exceptional turnout out, the same number of people were taking part last year, if not more. But the balance of the very "top" stuff vs. the very "bottom" stuff brought the level to a standard that was higher than now. Yes I do have some nostalgia for that period, but not for the reasons you mentioned. I couldn't care less how many ppl know about these battle or if they're "cool" or not. These battles for me as I've said, are about improving myself, and therefore the level of this group, and the involvement people put in it, is an important factor for me to keep taking part.

i mean hey, i'm probably not gonna sway any opinions with my rant-- but hopefully i can at least make some of you aware of how you're sounding and how fascist you guys are trying to be in turning these fun little battles into something way more serious than need be, whether it's intentional or not. that's all.

If I left off that impression, maybe I didn't express myself properly. But I don't see how it's fascist to have a no vote = no entry rule - I think it's only fair. Should have always been like that imo. You guys are overreacting just as I have been. Why wouldn't this be a positive thing to do? I don't see how this could lead to the doom scenario's (pun intended) you're describing.

And yes tbh I take these battles quite seriously, because i take my beatmaking quite seriously, and I take it quite seriously to keep improving myself. I take all your points and I can understand them in some ways (especially enzo's), I just don't agree with them.

You guys are basically saying "it's always worked that way so let's keep it that way". I'm saying: It's not working that way so let's do something about it.

, the voting has always been a joke, to me it seems based around what you like rather than voting for the best beat, so if you think about the amount of samey beats and the votes, you can't blame their inexperienced ear for voting what they do, .... There is nothing worse for me than a really well constructed beat getting beaten, by some soft love song ish!! it's a fucking battle, but we're tickling each other with feathers.

Sorry ODK ... I don't know any other way to vote then to vote for the beat that hits me intrinsically... somewhere between my heart and my head... I guess I also lack the trained ear... although I can spot a a well produced beat... I still won't vote for it if I'm not feeling it ..btw hope you can appreciate my honest euphamistically phrased comment on your 343 enrtry ... peazy J.

I'll try to vote more often and if I can't vote(or if I can't listen to all the beats by the deadline), I'll personally delete my own beat off the group page. With that said, can we please get back to the beats?

"to me it seems based around what you like rather than voting for the best beat,"

it's all about personal taste. so yes, people should be voting on beats that they like. that's like someone saying Dream Theater are better than Pink Floyd cause they are way more technical. No. some people like pink floyd cause it fits better their musical preferences. and some people like Dream Theater better cause maybe they are more into that virtuous kind of music.

some people like to dickride mirs, some people dickride sft, some people dickride Es-k..and some people don't dickride anyone and keep themselves openminded to whatever sounds good to them all about personal taste

"to me it seems based around what you like rather than voting for the best beat,"

it's all about personal taste. so yes, people should be voting on beats that they like. that's like someone saying Dream Theater are better than Pink Floyd cause they are way more technical. No. some people like pink floyd cause it fits better their musical preferences. and some people like Dream Theater better cause maybe they are more into that virtuous kind of music.

some people like to dickride mirs, some people dickride sft, some people dickride Es-k..and some people don't dickride anyone and keep themselves openminded to whatever sounds good to them all about personal taste

Ahhh does little Atom need some dickriding, getting a little bit jealous are we, I would not know what dickriding smells like, you seem to have experience in this department then I see (Pinch of salt I'm playing around). First line you wrote I totally agree, that is it though, and props for mentioning dream theatre. And I had already said it as well. so can we now start putting the energy into ideas to make the battles better for the 2nd time. next post there better be a positive idea from someone.

only motivation for entering these battles is too sharpen your swords on production not because so and so is entering the beat battle. everyone complaining about beats sounding the same. make rules that will take ppl out there comfort zone. challenges should be different genres like house for example sense everything sounds redundant. i wonder if the big shots around here are versatile enough to attempt such a challenge. well that's just my 2 cents , but this is fake DB account anyways so it doesn't matter.

Ahhh MellowYouth, how could I forget you?! We always post our beat right around the same time too, like an hour before deadline :-)

That #294 is a perfect example for me! Around that period was great and the best battles I've witnessed, I was actually late on the 294, and my own beats around that period are still some of my favorites... When you're surrounded by bangers, it somehow pushes you to do better than you ever could without it. It was too funny how everyone thought Dibias$e was a fake

I would imagine that in most cases you could probably find a minute to excuse yourself from voting on the forum. If there really is some unforeseeable emergency that prevents you from even posting on the board, I wouldn't mind losing (and I think it would be a rather rare occurence). Personally I think it'd be worth it for the integrity of the group.

If you have an emergency on wednesday when you were supposed to upload the beat, you wouldn't get a second shot at it either!

@Maccathmhaoil:

It's not an issue at all. For me the issue is before you guys even showed up. It shouldn't be a problem to have a 150 entries, it only becomes one when the group was already too brittle to start with.

I'm not at all saying all the new guys should stay out, I'm just saying we need some more heavy-hitters as well cause that would help pull up everybody's level.

And I don't wanna scare any of the newcomers off, it was the same for me when I first went in and it's great that you participate. As long as your attitude is right and you wanna keep progressing, it's all love from me!

As for the voting thing, you've just posted on the forum that you had problems with it, and we're still before the deadline. So in this case your entry would still count

i should've kept trolling ppl it was funny how reckless some of these kids spoke. lol