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The Wife has been teaching a summer institute type class this week in the mornings, so I’ve had The Little Boy with me for half days. The difference in children’s personalities, even as young as four months, is amazing. Whereas The Little Girl would have demanded my attention at every waking moment (which was fine), The Little Boy is generally content to watch me type and shake his hands around. Hence why you probably haven’t noticed that I’ve been halfway unavailable every morning this week (and tomorrow and Friday, too). Thanks for the help, sonny-boy.

Starlin Castro wasn’t too happy about the wide slide by Shane Robinson last night that ended the game. While trying to break up a game-ending double play, Robinson slide 10 to 15 feet wide of the bag, with a leg up in the air, preventing Castro from making the turn. Umpires correctly ruled that Robinson had strayed too far, and the double play was called. But Castro was pissed. “I understand where you can try to break up the double play in that kind of situation, but not like that,” Castro said, per CSN. “[That was] not even close. I couldn’t throw the ball because he tried to kill me.” The play was reminiscent of a Matt Holliday slide two years ago (pictured there), which I found to be particularly dirty because it was high, late, and looked like it intended to injure Castro. Initially, Castro called that one inappropriate, too, but later backed off those comments. Hard play is great. But the line before crossing into “dirty” is there somewhere. Dare I say … Cardinals Way?

Although he doesn’t love seeing Starlin Castro and Anthony Rizzo both slumping at the same time, Dale Sveum said he wasn’t worried about the slumps being a red flag for either player, per CSN. Rizzo got a day off yesterday, and hopes he’ll come back strong, per Carrie Muskat.

Jeff Samardzija on being a part of this particular team, per Cubs.com: “We’re the Chicago Cubs, so you know there’s always something going on, something being talked about. If you can’t deal with that, you better play somewhere else. We’re a great team in here, we get along real well. Despite different things that happen throughout the year, that’s how it goes.”

Jorge Soler did end up going to the disabled list (seven days, in the minors) with his calf/shin issue. No one seems to think it’s serious, so hopefully a few days rest will clear it up.

As you may have seen in the Minor League Daily today, reliever Eduardo Sanchez is pitching for the Iowa Cubs again. That’s noteworthy because he was designated for assignment last week upon the acquisition of Henry Rodriguez. Sanchez must have been subsequently waived, cleared waivers, and was then outrighted to Iowa. A peak at the Cubs’ transaction wire confirms that, yup, that’s what happened. That’s a nice reliever to stash right there.

“No one seems to think it’s serious, so it will fall off before noon today.”

Fixed that for you.

DarthDiehard

IRS could require amputation of Soler’s leg as penalty for conspiring in Tribune tax evasion.

Internet Random

True. They can also lien assets of anyone who bought tickets to see Soler play, including spouses if they file jointly.

Stinky Pete

RIP Jorge Soler…

Jp3

At least Sori waited til his 40ies to have leg troubles… I mean 30ies😜

Internet Random

And well done on the contract pic, TWC. Literal lol.

jh03

I heard that scouts were raving about TWC, but were concerned about his signability. Apparently signing kids away from BN is harder than getting them from college… This is a steal for the Cubs.

Spriggs

No that was his agent. The scouts have always been extremely low on TWC for a number of reasons. Mostly his attitude.

hansman1982

Hey, I can find the scouts who love him, if you need.

Glove – Soft, almost womanly hands
Speed – It’s an overrated tool
Arm – He has 2 of them, just don’t ask about fingers
Hit – Excellent ‘hit’ tool. 80/80
Power – Can ‘hit’ for power when needed. 80/80

Cyranojoe

By ‘hit’, you mean in Blackjack, right?

Spriggs

I also recall the cardinal way when Mike Shannon basically ended Beckert’s career with dirty slide like that – in 1971.

pete

In Shannon’s defense, he was probably in the bag and slid at what he thought was the Beckert in the middle.

Spriggs

True, but there was no purpose to his slide. It had no effect on the play. He did it just to take Beckert down. That’s how I remember it. “Oh but I was so much older then, I’m younger than that now”.

Internet Random

I just watched the Dylan 30th Anniversary performance of that song on YouTube last night… complete with Tom Petty, Neil Young, Eric Clapton, G.E. Smith, and others.

Spriggs

Awesome!

Mak

I wouldn’t care Robinsons’s slide dirty — with 1 out and tying run on base, you need todo whatever possible to break up the DP. He did. Interference is rarely called and Robinson didn’t appear to have intent to injure. Baseball is a physical game.

Internet Random

“I wouldn’t care Robinsons’s slide dirty — with 1 out and tying run on base, you need todo whatever possible to break up the DP.”

So you’d still be good if he pulled a knife, then. Just wanted to clarify that.

http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

(Sorry, in my zeal to help you with the double comment, I deleted a couple of your other comments. Oopsie-daisy.)

Internet Random

Meh. It’s probably an improvement.

Edwin

As long as he doesn’t take steroids.

Spriggs

I don’t think you do “whatever possible”. You have to draw a line. And plays like that should be called what they are: Dirty plays. There should be worse consequences then just calling him out – or you’re right – why not do it all the time since it’s rarely called? Suspend the dirty bastard.

OCCubFan

I agree. You do “whatever possible” within the rules of the game and the confines of good sportmanship. What bothered me most about the play was the leg in the air. That appeared to me to be deliberate.

mak

If you aren’t trying to deliberately hurt a guy, I think its within the spirit of the game.

Internet Random

If I put on a blindfold and fire a gun into a crowded room, I’m not deliberately trying to hurt anyone.

I’m doing something incredibly reckless with an unacceptable likelihood of hurting someone, but I’m not deliberately trying to hurt anyone.

Same with drunk driving.

Edwin

Sticking a leg up while sliding is nowhere close to the same situation as firing a gun or drunk driving. Probably a poor analogy to use.

What Mak is saying (apologies if I’m wrong, Mak), is that sliding hard is part of the competative aspect of the game. And I agree. If Castro was on the bag, or close to the basepath, I have no problem with a hard slide.

Where I disagree with Mak is when the fielder is obviously well out of the basepaths. In that situation, I think it’s cleary interference, and should be called as such.

mak

Edwin — yes, that is a summation of my argument. And I cosign the ridiculousness of the gun/drunk driving analogy.

In response to your last argument, Edwin, “obviously well out of the basepaths” should be more clear than Robinson’s slide. I’m not saying he shouldn’t have been called out (kudos to the ump for getting the call right and having the balls to call it to end the game in St Louis no less), but it’s not like he was on the outfield grass.

Internet Random

“I cosign the ridiculousness of the gun/drunk driving analogy.”

I invite you to break it down for me. Show me why my examples don’t illustrate the point that, if a person is not “deliberately trying to hurt a guy”, his actions can still be wrong.

Edwin

Well said.

Cubbie Blues

Outfield grass? Really? If you can’t touch the base you are out of the base-path. That seems pretty clear to me. Oh, and keep those spikes close to the ground kthxbye.

Internet Random

“Sticking a leg up while sliding is nowhere close to the same situation as firing a gun or drunk driving.”

No, it’s not very close. Of course, I didn’t say that it was. Please try to pay attention.

“What Mak is saying . . . .”

I know what he said. You should read it too. What he said was, “If you aren’t trying to deliberately hurt a guy. . . .”

Now, really try to focus here: What I gave the examples above for is to illustrate that even if a person is not “deliberately trying to hurt a guy”, his actions can still be wrong.

mak

“If you aren’t trying to deliberately hurt a guy” is in the context of a baseball game, where the amount of physical harm you can cause a person is limited. The full context of the sentence would be “if you aren’t trying to deliberately hurt a guy with your actions in a baseball game, then the play is not dirty.”

Are you comparing the recklessness of any routine action in a physical competition to shooting a gun in a crowded room? Or drunk driving? Enough with the straw man bullshit.

Cubbie Blues

A play that is outside the rules of the game and could injure a player should not be considered routine.

Mak

Simply, aggressive slides with the intent to break up a double play are routine.

Cubbie Blues

When the slider is outside the base-path and/or with his cleats elevated to make contact with the infielder, no, it is not routine. It should not be tolerated. Purposely trying to injure a player is beyond dirty. Why are you even defending the slide/Cardinals anyway?

Mak

Agree to disagree. You see players sliding out of the base paths to break up the DP all the time. The leg up was particularly aggressive, but I do not believe he was purposely trying to injure Castro.

I’m defending the slide because I just don’t see it as a violation of baseball ethics as many others seem to. And its the kind of slide I wouldn’t mind seeing in the same circumstance out of the Cubs.

King Jeff

I mind. He blatantly took a right hand turn a few feet before the bag. That’s dirty. It might be labeled as playing hard, but whether or not the intent was there is moot. That was a dangerous play and if Castro didn’t avoid him, we could be talking about him being on the DL with a torn up knee or something.

Internet Random

“‘If you aren’t trying to deliberately hurt a guy’ is in the context of a baseball game, where the amount of physical harm you can cause a person is limited.”

Alfredo Edmead, Ray Chapman, John Dodge will be so glad to hear that. Oh wait, they can’t hear. They were all killed while playing baseball.

“The full context of the sentence would be ‘if you aren’t trying to deliberately hurt a guy with your actions in a baseball game, then the play is not dirty.'”

Two things here: First, even though you have no desire to be at all consistent in what you say, I haven’t forgotten that this statement was not where you started. Your first statement was: “I wouldn’t care Robinsons’s slide dirty — with 1 out and tying run on base, you need todo whatever possible to break up the DP.”

Second, you continue to ignore the fact that deliberately doing something reckless with an unacceptable likelihood of hurting someone is just plain wrong. This doesn’t change if the offender just happens to be on a baseball diamond at the time.

“Are you comparing the recklessness of any routine action in a physical competition to shooting a gun in a crowded room? Or drunk driving?”

Nope. And you’re still not paying attention. Here it is again: ‘Now, really try to focus here: What I gave the examples above for is to illustrate that even if a person is not “deliberately trying to hurt a guy”, his actions can still be wrong.’

“Enough with the straw man . . . .”

I really wish you would learn what terms mean before you used them. The “straw-man fallacy” is not a difficult concept to grasp if you’ll just take a few minutes to educate yourself.

“[B]ullshit.”

Such salty language!

Oh, and I’m still waiting for you to respond to my request that you show me why my examples don’t illustrate the point that, if a person is not “deliberately trying to hurt a guy”, his actions can still be wrong.

mak

I’m pretty well versed in the straw man fallacy. You are characterizing my argument as “in life, intent is the only qualifier as right/wrong.” In fact, what I’m saying, is that in baseball, intent to injure is the key component in evaluating whether a play is “dirty.” Surely you can tell the difference between the two thoughts.

Internet Random

I have characterized your “argument” (using the term loosely, because what you say changes so frequently) with your own words.

And the sad thing is, after all this you still haven’t made enough improvements in your “argument” to make it defensible. You say “in life” as if baseball is played outside of life. PROTIP: Field of Dreams was *not* based on a true story. Dead people don’t really play baseball. The baseball games that we watch are always played by living people… “in life”.

Cyranojoe

Just saw the replay. He’s way off the base, but it wasn’t as bad as Halliday’s “I’m gonna start sliding as I *reach* the base” approach last year. And then suddenly he pops his leg up, as though he realizes he might not quite be able to interfere with Castro enough. That’s when it goes from uh, watch out dude to downright dirty. It’s the spikes on your shoes, man. Without the spikes, none of us are calling that dirty, probably.

Cubbie Blues

I’d still call it dirty, but we probably wouldn’t be having a discussion about it now.

Edwin

I don’t think a player should be able to go that far out of the basepaths to break up a double play. This isn’t Nam, there are rules.

Internet Random

Same. If they can’t reach—or don’t even try to reach—the bag, interference should be called. If they slide high or late as well, they should get suspended.

hansman1982

Eh, there is a YouTube video with all sorts of old school dirty slides. It’s actually quite hilarious.

hansman1982

Forgot to finish my thought.

They range from nasty spikes up to guys literally tackling the defender. I fail at the Google search lately.

DarthHater

As long as you make sure your cleats are sharp and clean, I see no problem.

Didnt have intent to injure? How old are you? Do you have cataracts? The guy slid 25 feet over & that wasn’t enough he did a jabbing kick on top of that . We’re we watching the same game? Cardinals are win at any cost dirty mf,& when other teams use the same tactics, they whine like little bitches!

jstraw

I have no problem with that slide at all.

Spencer

I have a problem with it in the sense that it was outside the rules of the game.

mak

But he got caught. So whats the problem?

Timothy Scarbrough

The reason it is outside of the rules is because people get hurt, particularly young all-star shortstops that are locked up for 7 years.

mak

I’m not so sure that’s why the rule is in place. The rule is there in the interest of fairness.

No one wants to see injuries, especially to their star player, but baseball is a physical sport. Hard slides are part of the game. Unfortunately, so are injuries.

Timothy Scarbrough

Fairness is it being called the same way both ways, which it should be, in theory at least, regardless of what the rule is.

Cyranojoe

I love baseball, but it’s not a “physical sport” in the same way as football, or even soccer or basketball. Collisions between players are so rare and so incidental to the outcome of a well-played game that I don’t see a reason to encourage them.

http://vdcinc.biz 70’scub

Wrong it is a fight for every inch ask any pitcher.

Spencer

That’s like saying you’re okay with homicide as long as the murderer gets convicted.

mak

If you’re only problem with the slide is that its against the rules (and not a health hazard), then the fact that the call was made should alleviate your concerns. That’s all I’m saying.

Cyranojoe

If somebody makes a hard and obviously illegal & dangerous foul in basketball and it’s called, I’m still calling the fouler dirty. If somebody fasemasks my team’s QB to the dirt and it’s called, I’m still calling the tackler dirty.

Do you understand now?

Mak

The original statement I found confusing was that “it was against the rules” so you had a problem with it.

Geo

All were saying is dont condone something that’s wrong, & then sit back when the comments come in & say he got caught so whats the problem. The problem is you came out in a earlier post & condoned it, so deal with the responses!

Jason Collins isn’t cute

Alright Mac, go back to your’ Cardinals sight and quit defending your boyfriend, Robinson. Freaking troll and is it Mac or should we call you “Big Mac”.

Jason Collins isn’t cute

Mak

mak

Talk about trolling. If you can’t fathom an opinion that is inconsistent with favoring your home team, I imagine real life discussion and debate is not your kind of thing.

JBlades

This is a site for cub fans, so when somebody makes a comments that seems against the cubs and aren’t a fan of them, I tend to call them trolls. If we were on a site that wasn’t for cub fans and you made that argument we could have a regular debate. And I can sometimes even handle a frustrated cub fan saying negative stuff about the state of the club, because I hear that a lot. It’s kind of like beating up your little brother. It’s okay for you to do it but if anybody else tries it they are going down!

JBlades

JBlades=Jason Collins isn’t cute

King Jeff

+1

mak

That rant is a bit ironic, considering that I’m a Cubs fan. I’ve been on this site for 2 seasons now, and no one has ever accused me of being a Cards fan. So there’s that.

TWC

I disagree entirely with your assessment of that play (and I think your staunch, meandering, defense of it is lame), but that doesn’t make you a troll, nor — even worse — a Cardinals fan. It just makes you wrong.

JBlades is trolling you.

mak

um, thanks?

TWC

Heh

Mysterious4th

I took spikes to my shin when I was 15 (before I switched fully to softball for a travel team) and I still have four spots on my shin/calf where at one point you could see the holes. Before the surgery to repair muscle and also to remove infection. Who would have thought that dirty would be….well…..dirty! I was down for 6 months before I could actually resume any type of baseball activities.

Picture this…..Castro goes down and Sappelt is in for the rest of the season. That makes it even more of a dirty play. I can see Molina saying to Robinson “dude, slide wide, high, and throw a leg up! I am sure they’d be screwed with Sappelt playing SS.” Ok joking about Molina…..maybe.

This reminded me of the Simpsons where Otto says “they call ‘em fingers, but I’ve never seen ‘me fing. Oh, there they go!”

I must be tired, time for my cup of coffee

miggy80

“remember that time I dropped my keys and we thought the phone was ringing”

-Auto

CubsFanSaxMan

That call makes up for the Molina call at home the night before. See, things have a way of evening out. I would rather take the call at second as it secured the win. Not sure the call at home made as big a diffence.

DarthHater

So what you are saying is that making an obvious correct call makes up for having previously made an obvious wrong call? Hunh. Never thought of that.

Internet Random

Haven’t you ever heard that one wrong and one right make a right?

Timothy Scarbrough

One wrong and one right make one right and one wrong every day of the week.

Oswego chris

Baseball and it’s players are a bit schizophrenic….they can be the biggest pu$$ies in the world…but then this stuff is considered the “right way” to play…

-throwing at a guys head
– trying to spike a guy why he is airborne trying to complete a DP
-having a runner at full speed barrel over a catcher…who is completely defenseless

I started re-reading a great baseball book last night “Big Hair and Plastic Grass”, written by Dan Epstein about 1970s baseball…you know the commissioner was not just a puppet of the owners back then, and because of that some changes were made in that decade… but baseball has historically been guarded by old-timers that don’t like change…

The game needs a commissioner chosen by the players and owners, who does not own(yes, he really still does) the Milwaukee Brewers, has no influential cronies(looking at u Reinsdorf) and is preferably under 65….

Timothy Scarbrough

It seems to me that major American sports have been hit by a wave a terrible commissioners lately. Between Bettman (Who interestingly enough, when I type in Gary Bettman into google, the second suggestion is Gary Bettman sucks), Stern, Selig, and Goodell it seems like they should be able to find better people to guard the sports.

hansman1982

I think a former GM could be a good commish (I even think Hendry wouldn’t be a terrible Commish). At first blush, it seems that someone like that would be able to best understand the concerns of the players and the owners.

http://vdcinc.biz 70’scub

Cubs need to send a message, Shark should have nailed the Card catcher last night!

Scotti

“-having a runner at full speed barrel over a catcher…who is completely defenseless”

As a catcher (and a son of a catcher who was a son of a catcher at that), if a catcher is “defenseless” in a play at the plate, it is HIS fault. A semi-astute catcher simply isn’t defenseless. There is no reason to “take it” when you can “give it.”

If the runner is going full bore then the catcher has ever right to go all out as well. After playing hundreds and hundreds of HS, college and sandlot games I was never injured even once. A defenseless catcher is an idiot.

Cubbie Blues

I guess Posey is an idiot then.

Scotti

Yes!

King Jeff

I think he’s talking more about timing. For example, the catcher is more than likely occupied with making sure he gets the ball, and doesn’t have the time or space to set himself up for the collision. I am with you, good catcher should be in position, but there are circumstances where that’s not possible. See Buster Posey.

Scotti

Posey was completely our of position when he attempted to make that catch. He was also shying AWAY from the contact. Bad catching.

And another thing I never hear about and loath Selig for,is moving his’ Brewers from the AL Central, at the time was very good, to the NL central, which was very weak at the time. He gave the ownership to his’ daughter, but come on do you really think he didn’t pull the strings. Also, the NL central had 6 in their division and the AL central had 4 with the other divisions having 5 until this year. That is bias and was very unprofessional. A commissioner should be unbiased and Selig isn’t and look what happened. I say get rid of the bum and give us back the Astros and the Brewers go back to the AL, I hate the fucking Brewers.

willis

The result was lovely, the slide was a pathetic attempt to break up a double play. Problem becomes this is how they play and it’s annoying to watch them go after 2B and SS, especially guys on the Cubs.

After that little taste of victory and their cheap shots, I’m looking forward to tonight’s game.

Cubbies4Life

The sweetest part of that interference call last night, and the resulting Cubbies win, was hearing the uproar of outrage from the Cards fans. It sounded like someone had pooped in their collective Cheerios! I loved it…

I have to say I don’t know for an absolute certaintity if any of these are true (especially baseball)

Rich H

Has anyone else noticed that the Cubs seem to get involved in these type of plays a lot? From Cueto doing his over the head throwing at DeJesus to Molina going into a pitcher with spikes up it seems to happen a ton. I wonder if the reason is they think the Cubs are soft and won’t stand up for themselves. There has been nothing that I have seen that has changed that opinion yet but a good old fashion bean-ball contest might do the work. Stop talking about how dirty a play is and police it on the field guys.

King Jeff

Yes, that’s why I suggest that we take Rizzowhatshisnames suggestion from a few days ago and go ahead and start Marmol. Just have Castillo/Navarro call the pitches inside and Marmol should take care of the rest.

gocatsgo2003

I nominate Rodriguez — at least hit ‘em with triple-digits.

Jp3

He’ll throw it in their general direction anyway at triple digits…
Probably.

gocatsgo2003

Shoot, if he starts aiming for the opposition, maybe he’ll hit the strike zone.

King Jeff

Ooooh, forgot about Rodriguez, excellent idea!

gocatsgo2003

It’s also pretty easy to take shots at a team who’s struggling — a “kick them when they’re down” kind of deal.

http://vdcinc.biz 70’scub

You hit the problem the Cubs are soft just because they suck does mean they have to play “soft like a pillow”

Rich H

I don’t know that they are. They just seem to talk about problems on the field more than solving them. So they appear to the other team to be soft.

If you can go after the other team and not expect to be on your ass in your first AB the next day then why not play as close to the hard-dirty line as possible. I don’t blame the Cardinals because EVERYONE seems to play the Cubs that way.

http://vdcinc.biz 70’scub

Blame the Cardinals are you joking check the standings! Cubs need to send a message and back it up “fight back”

JB88

I’d be okay if part of the “Cubs Way” includes teaching SSs and 2Bs to land, spikes down, on various parts of Cardinal runners who are sliding high, wide, or late …

wvcubsfan

LIKE!

http://vdcinc.biz 70’scub

Part of the Cub way should be to police such action right on the spot. Even the Dodgers had to get their asses out of the dugout and fight because baseball knows what the Diamondback manager brings. Tony L. and his Cards pushed the Cubs around for years in fact now the Cards organization feels entitled to kick Cub ass. They tried that shit with the Reds and Dusty was more then ready to bring it. Shark needed to plant a fastball at the Cardinal catcher last night, this rebuild process should also be about getting respect on the field.

Rich H

Where is the Hell Yeah button? Brett you need to look into that.

ssckelley

I am embarrassed to say that since I read the twitter before noticing Brett mentioned TWC was a fellow BN’er I had looked up Thomas Conroy on the Cubs draft list. (facepalm)

TWC

This is the greatest thing I’ve ever heard. I’ll reserve a couple of tickets at my Wrigley debut for you.

ssckelley

I am laughing at myself right now. I cannot believe I fell for that one. On second thought, yes I do.

Rich H

Can I be your Agent? I promise to get you a suite on the road and your own personal jet to bring the family to your games. (Hey it worked for Kevin Brown.)

Cardfan

Really??? This is the state of the Cubbie state after a win?

I will always try to maintain a measure of respect while here, out of appreciation of the Brett’s territory and the overriding mission of this site. This is a bit ridiculous, though. Good to see some measure of sanity in these posts, but I am amazed at some of the vitriol being spewed.

If I am a baserunner on first base, one out in the ninth with my team down a couple runs and the ball gets hit to the infield – you bet your tail end that I am going to try to break up the double play, if possible. I owe it to my team and the fans. If I am commited to a slide wide right and the SS takes me a little farther out than I should be, so be it. The out was called – both of them. Umps kept it in check.

Now, if you want to dig into the details, take another look at the replay and watch Castro’s feet – he never touched the bag. I would postulate that if he had, in fact, touched the bag, his momentum woudn’t have carried him halfway to right field.

Regardless, you have a bigger problem here than you may want to admit. Your star SS is a pansy. I do not say that out of competitive hatred or spite. I honestly thought that when Castro came up, he would be a force to be reckoned with. A rare asset of a solid defensive SS with speed and range who hits for power and average. I do not hold that impression any more. Are you serious – “He was trying to kill me”???? I would venture that he had that thought as soon as the ball was hit to the second baseman. That was why he wasted no time scooting past the base and never made the throw. Hopefully you have someone in your organization who can pull this kid aside and slap some balls on him. You will be in for years of disappointment if it doesn’t happen.

Nice. Looks like he’s trying to slide into center rather than second. Also can’t help but notice how high his foot is. That pretty much makes any defense of the play seem asinine.

Cubbie Blues

It already was.

King Jeff

Yeah, but having the picture right here for everyone to see is still pretty nice.

http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

Thanks for that, CB. Good idea to get a screen grab of the slide in question. I’m going to try as well – maybe circulate it around the Twitterz …

Cubbie Blues

If you google photos “dirty slide” and filter the last 24 hours there is one there. It’s the only one I was able to find.

TWC

Yeah, I imagine there’s a bit of filtering required after a Google search for “dirty” *anything*.

PRcajun

I reckon that was my move in high school…the dirty slide…chicks fell for it every time.

Scotti

My son came home from grade school once w/ the assignment to research “dirty seed” on the Internet… Some type of agriculture thing.

willis

Yep, that’s dirty as shit. Nice pic cubbie blues. There is no defense of that…it’s way out of the path with intent to injure.

Cardfan

completely….missing…the…point

Patrick W.

The point you’re trying to make isn’t being missed. Unless I’m wrong, I think your point is that in the situation it was appropriate to try to take out Castro to avoid the double play, that the hard slide was an acceptable action, and Castro is a wimp for saying he felt like he was in danger by the slide.

The disagreement is not on the appropriateness of a hard slide into second to break up a double play, the disagreement is on the appropriateness of this particular slide. The screen grab is meant to show that this particular slide was dirty, not that all hard slides are dirty, and with the spikes up as high as they were, perhaps Castro is not a wimp but was legitimately concerned about being hurt by such an illegal in the game action.

Patrick W.

Oh and the Cardinals seem to be prone to particularly inappropriate base running.

King Jeff

So are you. There is a history of the Cards doing this, regardless of if you think Castro is a pansy.

Cubbie Blues

If your response is indeed to yourself, I couldn’t agree more.

http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

Spikes up, for me, for today, is the point. That’s what Castro was referencing, and maybe I should have included that portion of his quote as well.

Cardfan

Brett, I challenge you to go back to the video and look at where Robinson’s feet were when they went under Castro. That screen grab from above shows him 6-8 feet past Castro. Castro never saw the bottom of Robinson’s cleats. Regardless, Robinson went too far. Don’t fester a maliciousness that didn’t take place on this particular play.

Cubbie Blues

He tried to kick him with his spikes. Plain & simple. Why else was his leg that high in the air? There is absolutely no other reason for it.

King Jeff

6-8 feet past Castro? Come on, I usually enjoy reading from your point of view, but that’s just ridiculous. He made a blatant right turn a few feet before second, stuck his foot in the air and slid straight at Castro, completely ignoring the basebath or player safety. Regardless of if his intent was to hurt or just break up the play, it was a cheap shot at a defenseless player.

It was accurately called interference, and the game was appropriately over. Robinson was out of the basepath, and attempted to interfere with Castro. I don’t think there’s any legitimate reason to argue this.

HOWEVA, I think the “spikes up” line is a bit much. Robinson’s spikes didn’t get elevated until he was past Castro. He was *trying* to mess w/ Castro. He doesn’t appear to have been trying to hurt him. I’d place that slide below the Holiday/Castro/Quade cowardice debacle of ’11, and well below the Holiday/Scutaro bullshit field tackle of the NLCS last year.

http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

If he wasn’t trying to get his leg way up and hit Castro, why did he leg end up way up?

Don’t excuse his dirtiness just because he was a micro-second slow to get them spikes up.

TWC

Oh, I’m not, not at all. I don’t think there was any excuse for that. He *was* trying to hit Castro, and he was way out of line (literally and figuratively). But he didn’t go in “spikes up”. They just ended up that way.

hansman1982

I think he didn’t go IN spikes up because he was late in reacting to where Castro was. Basically, he needs to spend some time with Holiday.

TWC

That’s quite possible. He clearly made a move to sweep the leg. (cue Darth gif in 3… 2… 1…)

DarthHater

You think it’s my job to post memes for your edification and amusement?

Good news! Talked to the DeWitt family and they are going to have the entire team in stocking feet for the next two games. In addition, they have special permission from MLB to install two very intimidating bodyguard-types behind the third and first base coaches in case Castro feels threatened in any way.

My work here is done…

cubmig

“Good news! Talked to the DeWitt family and they are going to have the entire team in stocking feet for the next two games.”

I heard that too!!!…..and….that the team voted to wear leotards to match.

I actually almost agree with your point. This team appears soft. But would you still be making it if Molina was on his ass that first AB yesterday? I don’t think so. Then you would be on a Cards board somewhere talking about how much of a hot head or dirty that Shark was.

Cardfan

Not my style. I love baseball. I don’t like Cueto, I don’t like what Holliday did to Scutaro last year. I don’t like pitchers (Kennedy) that throw at heads. Baseball above any team. It is my opinion, though, that this was not malicious. It is also my opinion that Castro has done alot of personal damage with his comments. Search “Starlin Castro Robinson” this morning. All that pops up is “HE TRIED TO KILL ME”. Good grief.

miggy80

I guess I missed the point. Was it we should be happy cause we won and if we lost then we have the right to be upset about the play? Was your point that since it looked like Castro didn’t touch the bag then the slide was justified? Or was your point that our short stop is a “pansy”?

bbmoney

What’s the point? It was a win. I love wins. Especially over the Cardinals.

The point we’re making is, that was a ridiculous slide and frankly a fairly dirty play. Not as dirty has Holliday’s slide last year when he decided to wave at second on his way over the top of it into left field/Scutaro’s knees, but still dirty. His hand is 4-5 feet from the bag. His cleats are 2-3 feet in the air. By all means go hard into second to break up a double play in the 9th. But the “going into second” part of that previous sentence is kind of the ‘key’ phrase.

JBlades

There is nothing wrong with trying to break up a double play, but when you have a cleat raised and aimed at the guy, then that is where the play is dirty and malicious. That can ruin careers and is uncalled for and to call Castro a pussy for not taking on a freaking cleat to his’ body and instead getting out of the way is classless just like Robinson and his’ bitch move. If Matheny is smart he will not put Robinson in the game today, but I hope he is a dumb ass, because that fucker is getting drilled.

http://vdcinc.biz 70’scub

Drill Cardinal impact talent like they continue to do to the Cubs this time Castro, Wood the game before. Because Shark could not lead in this situation Castro got attacked. I hope I can count on Wood to handle the situation next time he faces the cards.

hansman1982

“This is a bit ridiculous, though. Good to see some measure of sanity in these posts, but I am amazed at some of the vitriol being spewed.”

Geez, apparently you weren’t around these parts on Monday.

Sure, I don’t mind a bush-league-holy-crap-I-slide-better-than-that slide that is designed to break up the DP there, just if it weren’t such a damn common occurance coming from the Cardinals, only to have them (and their fans) bitch about people who aren’t happy they did it.

This isn’t the first time the Cardinals organization/fanbase has done something shitty, got called out for it and then whined about them getting called out for it.

Cardfan

Once again, the ump made the absolute right call. He was way out and should have been called out. Looked bad, as well. Glad to know, though, that little Shane Robinson – all 5’8″ and 150 lbs – can be seen as such an intimidating force.

http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

That’s how big I am, and if you put spikes on my feet, I could do some damage.

Cardfan

I had you at 6’6″ 240 all tatted up.

Scotti

Crap, he’s not? I think I’m leaving the site.

Scotti

On second thought, perhaps we should have a tat-athon where Brett asks for tattoo suggestions and gets tatted up for 24 hours straight…

hansman1982

I never said anything about intimidating, Castro never said it either and I am fairly positive his “He tried to kill me” line was a touch of hyperbole. When a player is left exposed (as a MI is on a DP ball),

Now, this is the third time (I can think of) your players have attempted to take out Castro with atrocious slides and the 2nd time it has involved the players spikes. I get it, you guys are trying to fuck with his head. Doesn’t mean we have to like it.

What I do enjoy, thus far, is that the Cubs organization has taken a very classy aproach to these incidents and offered virtually no response.

Cubbie Blues

He’s a Cards fan
Hyperbole = an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”

willis

Meh, it needs a response. This is going on too much.

hansman1982

I agree, at this point it probably should be done, the question is, what do you do? Plunk a guy with a BP fastball? So what, they are clearly trying to rattle Castro,.

willis

I agree he is a target of theirs. I’m not sure how you can fend that off, as it will continue from now until who knows when, but I think you go eye for an eye, and when given a chance, go hard into their SS or 2B, as well as plunk a couple guys high. Not head hunt, but make them think about it.

The other thing we could do is have cardinal players sit in on a political discussion around here

http://vdcinc.biz 70’scub

If the Cubs throw inside the Cards will headhunt, so fight like Donny baseball’s team did. Throw to make max impact on one or more of their impact players not a head shot but high and in hands/ chest with fastballs. Shark who is a core player should have sent this message last night you got to protect your team period. Wake up Dale your in last place not much to lose.

hansman1982

“When a player is left exposed (as a MI is on a DP ball), ”

I meant to finish this, I swear…

it won’t take much to get them riled up, especially with the history of the Cards organization.

http://vdcinc.biz 70’scub

I here you cardfan on a Cub sight, it is your teams right to do what it takes to win and hope the ump is sleeping. It is up to the Cubs to send a message regardless of your opinion that your team can cross the line as it suits necessary. It is called dirty play, so what, Cubs just need to send a message fastballs back at the impact talent. You support cheap shot artists the name calling at Castro speaks volumes as to who you really are a gutless wonder.

Cardfan

poetic

hansman1982

Yeah, let’s start doing whatever it takes to win! Go after the catchers knees on plays at the plate! Try to step on the 1B ankle when you run through the base! Use metal cleats as weapons!

bryan

the nice thing is a fastball to beltrans or holidays or molinas knee/head is a lot more damaging than a fb to any player on the cubs roster. The cards should be careful as a few well placed pitches could ruin your hopeful season. Whereas any ball has absolutely no effect on our miserable (at least at the big league level) season.

gocatsgo2003

Another point: What in the world was Matheny trying to argue on the field afterwards? “NO NO NO!!! I SWEAR HE SHOULDN’T BE CALLED FOR INTERFERENCE EVEN THOUGH HE COULDN’T EVEN TOUCH THE BASE IN HIS SLIDE!!!”

Rich H

Those are judgement calls and Matheny should have went out and argued for no other reason that the judgement might go in his favor next time. Don’t fault him for that at all.

http://vdcinc.biz 70’scub

He is just sending a message back to his boys reaffirming dirty play!

Cyranojoe

When I saw the clip, I thought he popped up his spikes — late, admittedly, but with intent to kick nevertheless. In any case, I am inclined to agree on the not touching second base. But that seems to be a common thing these days, where the SS/2B doesn’t hit the base as part of a double play, yet the ump calls it an out, almost as a courtesy. It’s like traveling was in basketball about a decade ago, where the refs just looked the other way even if it was four, five steps without dribbling. What’s up with that?

TWC

Watching baseball this season, it appears that the SS/2B only accurately hits second with the ball in hand about 50% of the time. I think it’s lame.

Tommy

ROFL! Hilarious! Thanks TWC!

cavemencubbie

I wonder what the Cardinals would say if Castro ‘accidently’, has his throw to first on the next DP with Robinson land in his face? Would that be a dirty play or just retribution? I seem to remember that was what happened in the old days of baseball, when the elite players weren’t all millionaires and retribution was expected.

Bill

Yep, and this is exactly what Castro should do to the next guy who comes sliding in high and kicking his legs. My brother played ball at Univ of Iowa in the early 80’s and his coach told him drop his arm down and thrown one right at the guys head if they tried to slide in high. This will send a message to them that they better slide early or they are going to get a baseball in the face or head.

cubfanincardinalland

This Cardinal fan merely is parroting what emulates from the very top of the Cardinal organization down to their youngest fan. A sense of entitlement, a complete lack of respect for opponents, a massively oversized view of their abilities and accomplishments. It’s the Cardinal way. Enjoy it while you can, rookie pitchers will break hearts.

James Krzyskowski

This has nothing to do with your above article I was wondering how that cuban pitcher the cubs signed last year after his rough start his name is Gerardo Concepcion is he doing better how is he looking does he seem to be a waste or what not much said here about him.

Scotti

He hasn’t pitched this year but is eligible for selection in the December 2013 Rule 5 Draft.

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