Re: The C-Zine 2011/12 Football Season Thread

It has proved quite effective up until recently though. The same criticisms were levelled at Spain by some quarters after the world cup (saying they were boring), but they had just won the damn thing.

As World Cup winners, weren't Spain one of the lowest scoring teams ever?

When it comes to football, I find it exciting when teams create lots of chances and score lots of goals. Spain only scored something like 7 goals in the whole tournament. Compared to a team like Germany, who scored twice as many goals, playing a much more exciting style (in my opinion).

So yes, I think it's perfectly reasonable to describe Spain as boring; regardless of how effective their tactics proved to be.

Obviously, but like I said, there are a variety of ways of playing the game. Their way was the most successful in that tourny regardless of how many goals they scored. Do you think their supporters were bummed out because they didn't score 5 goals a game? Would you rather England got knocked out in the semis as long as they were entertaining on the way there or would you rather they won a competition for once by only scoring 7 goals, hell, even only creating 7 chances?

"There is pleasure in the pathless woods, there is rapture in the lonely shore, There is society where none intrudes, By the deep sea, and music in its roar; I love not Man the less, but Nature more."

Re: The C-Zine 2011/12 Football Season Thread

It has proved quite effective up until recently though. The same criticisms were levelled at Spain by some quarters after the world cup (saying they were boring), but they had just won the damn thing.

As World Cup winners, weren't Spain one of the lowest scoring teams ever?

When it comes to football, I find it exciting when teams create lots of chances and score lots of goals. Spain only scored something like 7 goals in the whole tournament. Compared to a team like Germany, who scored twice as many goals, playing a much more exciting style (in my opinion).

So yes, I think it's perfectly reasonable to describe Spain as boring; regardless of how effective their tactics proved to be.

Obviously, but like I said, there are a variety of ways of playing the game. Their way was the most successful in that tourny regardless of how many goals they scored. Do you think their supporters were bummed out because they didn't score 5 goals a game? Would you rather England got knocked out in the semis as long as they were entertaining on the way there or would you rather they won a competition for once by only scoring 7 goals, hell, even only creating 7 chances?

Yeah I think the point I was trying to make has shifted somewhat from the rant about Swansea...

You know when certain teams play with a route-one percentage football approach, and win a lot of games by a narrow margin; they receive widespread criticism for doing so? e.g Stoke, e.g Derby under Billy Davies, e.g Sheff Utd under Warnock / Blackwell. A team grabs a goal from a set piece and then defend for the remainder of the game? We hear phrases like 'negative' or 'anti-football' and that it isn't 'the right way'.

Yet, we have Swansea (to whom my original rant related to) who produce equally few chances, and produce equally low goal tallies, and spend just as much time in their own half.... but somehow the general consensus from much of the footballing community is that they are 'a pleasure to watch' and 'they do things the right way'. That blatant hypocrisy is what's bollocks, and that's what I disagree with.

Added: 12-04-2012 13:29:24

Hail_Of_Bullets wrote:

Obviously, but like I said, there are a variety of ways of playing the game. Their way was the most successful in that tourny regardless of how many goals they scored.

Well yes, they won the tournament so there is no way anybody can argue they weren't the best team. Would people still hype over their style of play if they hadn't have won? Yes, I think they probably would.Just like the armchair fans say Arsenal play the "best football" despite the fact they haven't won anything for the best part of a decade. They spent the first half of the season kicking the ball around the half-way line and being boring as hell to watch, yet people still make these ridiculous statements about their style of play and how good / righteous it is.

Re: The C-Zine 2011/12 Football Season Thread

N.G STATE OF MIND wrote:

Hail_Of_Bullets wrote:

N.G STATE OF MIND wrote:

As World Cup winners, weren't Spain one of the lowest scoring teams ever?

When it comes to football, I find it exciting when teams create lots of chances and score lots of goals. Spain only scored something like 7 goals in the whole tournament. Compared to a team like Germany, who scored twice as many goals, playing a much more exciting style (in my opinion).

So yes, I think it's perfectly reasonable to describe Spain as boring; regardless of how effective their tactics proved to be.

Obviously, but like I said, there are a variety of ways of playing the game. Their way was the most successful in that tourny regardless of how many goals they scored. Do you think their supporters were bummed out because they didn't score 5 goals a game? Would you rather England got knocked out in the semis as long as they were entertaining on the way there or would you rather they won a competition for once by only scoring 7 goals, hell, even only creating 7 chances?

Yeah I think the point I was trying to make has shifted somewhat from the rant about Swansea...

You know when certain teams play with a route-one percentage football approach, and win a lot of games by a narrow margin; they receive widespread criticism for doing so? e.g Stoke, e.g Derby under Billy Davies, e.g Sheff Utd under Warnock / Blackwell. A team grabs a goal from a set piece and then defend for the remainder of the game? We hear phrases like 'negative' or 'anti-football' and that it isn't 'the right way'.

Yet, we have Swansea (to whom my original rant related to) who produce equally few chances, and produce equally low goal tallies, and spend just as much time in their own half.... but somehow the general consensus from much of the footballing community is that they are 'a pleasure to watch' and 'they do things the right way'. That blatant hypocrisy is what's bollocks, and that's what I disagree with.

Added: 12-04-2012 13:29:24

Hail_Of_Bullets wrote:

Obviously, but like I said, there are a variety of ways of playing the game. Their way was the most successful in that tourny regardless of how many goals they scored.

Well yes, they won the tournament so there is no way anybody can argue they weren't the best team. Would people still hype over their style of play if they hadn't have won? Yes, I think they probably would.Just like the armchair fans say Arsenal play the "best football" despite the fact they haven't won anything for the best part of a decade. They spent the first half of the season kicking the ball around the half-way line and being boring as hell to watch, yet people still make these ridiculous statements about their style of play and how good / righteous it is.

I agree with you. Just playing devil's advocunt. Ragging on one style of play while orgasming over another which results in similar league positions is remtarded. Ultimately, winning games is all that matters. For some reason, the media have forgotten that.

That reason is probably because they are all thickwad assholes.

"There is pleasure in the pathless woods, there is rapture in the lonely shore, There is society where none intrudes, By the deep sea, and music in its roar; I love not Man the less, but Nature more."

Re: The C-Zine 2011/12 Football Season Thread

copied this from a previously copied post

I was playing in a amateur inter-service football match yesterday which was refereed by a Championship referee. After the match both teams and the officials had a drink in the bar afterwards and I took the opportunity to ask him a few questions about the job and to gain a better understanding of the thought process of the officials in the game.

Firstly, I asked him how do the officials take the abuse from the players, managers and fans throughout the game and what does he think of the scrutiny they are under. He stated that as all the referees are now microphoned up its difficult to hear what the crowd are saying when all 20,000 are shouting. He says its easier to hear when 1 individual calls him a w**ker than everyone screaming different things at him. With regards the players, he says its generally all friendly before and after the game and the way the players are during the game is, for the most part, not taken off the pitch. Possibly the worst job is being the 4th official who effectively stands there to be abused by both managers, but most referees swear back at the managers if they are doing it to them. He felt that most referees need a certain amount of arrogance as well as strong belief in their decisions

I asked what the scrunity is like, and he explained that all Premeirship Referees are in a separate 'referee table' to the other referees and officials (of which there around 202 of them). The rest of the referees are ranked based on their performances and missing a crucial decision such as a clear penalty or a certain sending off means that they can quite easily drop from say 30th on the list to 170th based on the one decision. So for the most part Championship refeeres are affected by bad decisions, whereas Premiership referees are less so.

One thing he thinks that most football fans forget is that referees themselves are all fans of the game, indeed a lot of people who go into refereeing are those who did not make it as players either because of injury at a young age or just not making the grade. Interestingly, the referees meet up every 2 weeks for their management meeting and amongst the referees they all play 5-a-side against each other. Indeed they used to have an 11-a-side team before someone flattened and injured Mark Clattenberg and the association stopped it.

I then asked about what games are excluded for referees and he stated that is always the team they support and their closest rivals. For example (believe it or not) Howard Webb is a Rotherham United fan and Mark Halsey is a Bolton fan so obviously they are not allowed to referee those games. I also asked about the training regimes that referees go through and he explained it is pretty tough and a lot of the top referees actually train with Premiership first teams (Mark Halsey at Bolton) is an example.

One interesting thing I learned (apologies if people already know this) but if more than 3 players crowd the referee during a match, the FA take retrospective action and fine the clubs.

Re: The C-Zine 2011/12 Football Season Thread

It is hard not to feel sometimes that out of this platinum-hulled technical excellence Barcelona have created a strain of football for people who don't really like football. Most teams play like Barcelona once a season for about five seconds. Barcelona play like Barcelona all the time. It is a continual popping of champagne corks, a kind of BMW 5 Series football: undeniably high-spec, wondrous production values, devoid of ragged edges. Barcelona deliver every time at a pitch of homogenised consumer perfection. There is no need for faith, despair or sullen leering hope. This is a church where the miracles are on tap, where levitating pensioners come as standard, cadavers are reanimated, crutches hurled away daily.

Re: The C-Zine 2011/12 Football Season Thread

It is hard not to feel sometimes that out of this platinum-hulled technical excellence Barcelona have created a strain of football for people who don't really like football. Most teams play like Barcelona once a season for about five seconds. Barcelona play like Barcelona all the time. It is a continual popping of champagne corks, a kind of BMW 5 Series football: undeniably high-spec, wondrous production values, devoid of ragged edges. Barcelona deliver every time at a pitch of homogenised consumer perfection. There is no need for faith, despair or sullen leering hope. This is a church where the miracles are on tap, where levitating pensioners come as standard, cadavers are reanimated, crutches hurled away daily.

ha.

Kind of how I feel about Man Utd - instead of them being like a consistent, high quality consumer product they feel more like this consumer monolith that no matter what you do or however other products perform, they always find a way to dominate. Like diet coke with tiny bits of arsenic in it.

Re: The C-Zine 2011/12 Football Season Thread

It is hard not to feel sometimes that out of this platinum-hulled technical excellence Barcelona have created a strain of football for people who don't really like football. Most teams play like Barcelona once a season for about five seconds. Barcelona play like Barcelona all the time. It is a continual popping of champagne corks, a kind of BMW 5 Series football: undeniably high-spec, wondrous production values, devoid of ragged edges. Barcelona deliver every time at a pitch of homogenised consumer perfection. There is no need for faith, despair or sullen leering hope. This is a church where the miracles are on tap, where levitating pensioners come as standard, cadavers are reanimated, crutches hurled away daily.

ha.

barney ronay is so good; i have to say that i still enjoy watching both spain and barca - however i think if i was a supporter of a spanish league team i would probably find their moral highground and the above really grating; as it is i watch probably 7 la liga games and similar in champions league and enjoy everything but sergio "biscuits" and dani alves play acting; though this is balanced out by pique, iniesta, xavi, messi et al... i can only imagine how unbearable it must be for an espanyol supporter

PS- funny stuff about mark halsey above; i'm pretty sure he has officiated blackburn on severall occasions (and sent players off); whilst i found it funny i don't think he should be able to ref any team from north west really

Re: The C-Zine 2011/12 Football Season Thread

It is hard not to feel sometimes that out of this platinum-hulled technical excellence Barcelona have created a strain of football for people who don't really like football. Most teams play like Barcelona once a season for about five seconds. Barcelona play like Barcelona all the time. It is a continual popping of champagne corks, a kind of BMW 5 Series football: undeniably high-spec, wondrous production values, devoid of ragged edges. Barcelona deliver every time at a pitch of homogenised consumer perfection. There is no need for faith, despair or sullen leering hope. This is a church where the miracles are on tap, where levitating pensioners come as standard, cadavers are reanimated, crutches hurled away daily.

ha.

barney ronay is so good; i have to say that i still enjoy watching both spain and barca - however i think if i was a supporter of a spanish league team i would probably find their moral highground and the above really grating; as it is i watch probably 7 la liga games and similar in champions league and enjoy everything but sergio "biscuits" and dani alves play acting; though this is balanced out by pique, iniesta, xavi, messi et al... i can only imagine how unbearable it must be for an espanyol supporter

PS- funny stuff about mark halsey above; i'm pretty sure he has officiated blackburn on severall occasions (and sent players off); whilst i found it funny i don't think he should be able to ref any team from north west really

In a weirdly similar example, Lee Mason gave QPR's Derry a straight red for brushing his fingertips against Young's shirt when we played Man Utd last week within 15 minutes. Asides from the fact Young was a good couple of yards offside to begin with, the dive was fucking comical. Feel pretty peeved considering our main relegation rival is Bolton, and Lee Mason is not only head of the Bolton referee's association but a regular at the Reebok stadium. Fucking comical refereeing.

As a note about Halsey, he's actually a QPR fan, so I wouldn't worry about him officiating in the North West (although, I would see it as sketchy if he came into officiate any Blackburn or Bolton fixtures for the rest of the season).

Edit: FUCKING COMICAL

Also, realise this is probably of very little interest, but there's a good rant on the subject from a fan-site here:

QPR are extremely well versed in the hold Manchester United seem to have over referees in this country: in 1996 Eric Cantona equalised at Loftus Road during the second reading of the classified football results and the final whistle was then blown immediately after the ball hit the net, the season before at Old Trafford Clive Wilson had been sent off with the time still in single figures and Kevin Gallen had what would have been his first ever goal for the club incorrectly ruled out for offside, the season before that Rangers dared to take the lead on this ground so Cantona was again permitted to equalise despite a blatant foul on Darren Peacock in the build up and so it goes on and on and on and on and on and on for QPR and every other club that plays Alex Ferguson’s team. Last week it was Fulham, conned out of a draw by a disgraceful decision not to award a last minute penalty kick, and this week it’s us.

Lee Mason was our referee on Sunday, miserably failing throughout to uphold the one basic of officiating in any sport – remain fair and impartial. Mason was neither.

Now that’s quite an allegation to make so let me pick out two incidents you may have missed during this encounter to back myself up. Take, for instance, the irrelevant and non consequential throw in awarded to Manchester United in the sixty fifth minute. A block tackle, a loose ball, a 50/50 throw in decision up in the air. The linesman, Ceri Richards, who’d already erred horrendously when United took the lead, stared blankly at a dreadfully positioned referee without a clue between them of what should happen next. There they stood, staring at each other, for five seconds or more. Faced with a situation where they genuinely had no idea what to do they awarded the throw to United. And that was the default setting for the afternoon: if in doubt give it to Manchester United.

This was the second occasion this little guessing game had gone like this. Earlier in the day Adel Taarabt swung over a free kick that deflected away from Clint Hill at the back post and out for a corner on the far side. Except Mason, incorrectly positioned again, hadn’t seen the flick and apparently neither had Richards. So they stood and looked at each other and did nothing again, and then when it was clear neither knew what had happened they awarded a goal kick to Manchester United. If in doubt, award the decision to Manchester United.

Incidentally Lee Mason is from Bolton, lives in Bolton, is chairman of the Bolton Referee’s Association, has a younger brother who used to play for Bolton and has been spotted by Bolton fans going to support Bolton Wanderers when he’s not refereeing. Bolton, you may recall, are one place and one point above Queens Park Rangers with just six games left to play this evening.

I mention this simply because somebody at the FA believes that all these Bolton connections mean that Lee Mason should not referee Bolton matches, just as QPR-supporting Mark Halsey never gets any of our games. Somebody somewhere clearly believes that he would either be incapable of refereeing Bolton Wanderers fairly and impartially, or at the very least appointing him to one of their games would leave him open to such allegations, so they don’t give him their matches. Why, you have to wonder, is it therefore acceptable for him to referee the games of the teams immediately around Bolton at this stage of the season?

Re: The C-Zine 2011/12 Football Season Thread

It is hard not to feel sometimes that out of this platinum-hulled technical excellence Barcelona have created a strain of football for people who don't really like football. Most teams play like Barcelona once a season for about five seconds. Barcelona play like Barcelona all the time. It is a continual popping of champagne corks, a kind of BMW 5 Series football: undeniably high-spec, wondrous production values, devoid of ragged edges. Barcelona deliver every time at a pitch of homogenised consumer perfection. There is no need for faith, despair or sullen leering hope. This is a church where the miracles are on tap, where levitating pensioners come as standard, cadavers are reanimated, crutches hurled away daily.

ha.

Fucking hell, all that bum-love for a team who aren't even top of their domestic league?

Re: The C-Zine 2011/12 Football Season Thread

That's a good read, I hadn't realised how tight it was at the bottom. I only really check for Eastwood, Boston and Halifax's progress, and checking for Eastwood's results is pretty much a foregone conclusion, bless them.

Re: The C-Zine 2011/12 Football Season Thread

Man I fucking hate Neil Lennon. Thought the penalty for Hearts was a little unfair on Celtic, though, not that I'm condoning any of that bloated shithead's actions!!

I wish I'd never opened this thread to see this. What an uneducated and biased pair. I'll leave it at that to avoid the liberal banhammer in these parts. But I'm certainly thinking about leaving off my own back if this is what THE CBOARD has to say about football. Very disappointing.

Re: The C-Zine 2011/12 Football Season Thread

even so, you don't run onto the pitch to berate the referee like a psychotic parent at an under 10s game. the man has no dignity.

What do you expect him to do?

It's a cup semi final, an enormous game, and the officials have blatantly and without question cheated.

Stand there with his hands in his pockets and shrug his shoulders? Just accept what was a clear and obscene miscarriage of justice like the SFA apparently expect him to do?

My only complaint with Lennon is people tend to get so excited about his reaction to these things that they quickly forget/ignore a performance which that referee should be fired, or at the very least suspended, for.

But yes, how dare he be angry. Be quiet Neil for heaven's sake. Just let those honest refs carry on as normal.

Re: The C-Zine 2011/12 Football Season Thread

Man I fucking hate Neil Lennon. Thought the penalty for Hearts was a little unfair on Celtic, though, not that I'm condoning any of that bloated shithead's actions!!

I wish I'd never opened this thread to see this. What an uneducated and biased pair. I'll leave it at that to avoid the liberal banhammer in these parts. But I'm certainly thinking about leaving off my own back if this is what THE CBOARD has to say about football. Very disappointing.

this post is sort of funny(if serious), people slag off managers/players/refs and thier actions on here enough if you read the thread, your post makes you seem as one who ought to drop his bias/green tinted glasses a little, the old firm are nothing more than a fucking pantomime

I'm not singing for the futureI'm not dreaming of the pastI'm not talking of the first timeI never think about the last

Re: The C-Zine 2011/12 Football Season Thread

But I'm certainly thinking about leaving off my own back if this is what THE CBOARD has to say about football. Very disappointing.

You're thinking of leaving an internet forum just because some people disagree with you about Celtic's manager; a man who is frequently involved in controversies ?

MikeWithoutFear wrote:

dontcarewhere wrote:

even so, you don't run onto the pitch to berate the referee like a psychotic parent at an under 10s game. the man has no dignity.

What do you expect him to do?

It's a cup semi final, an enormous game, and the officials have blatantly and without question cheated.

Stand there with his hands in his pockets and shrug his shoulders? Just accept what was a clear and obscene miscarriage of justice like the SFA apparently expect him to do?

My only complaint with Lennon is people tend to get so excited about his reaction to these things that they quickly forget/ignore a performance which that referee should be fired, or at the very least suspended, for.

But yes, how dare he be angry. Be quiet Neil for heaven's sake. Just let those honest refs carry on as normal.

Wow! What a fantastic post from start to finish; rational, proportionate and well informed. Bravo.

Re: The C-Zine 2011/12 Football Season Thread

Man I fucking hate Neil Lennon. Thought the penalty for Hearts was a little unfair on Celtic, though, not that I'm condoning any of that bloated shithead's actions!!

I wish I'd never opened this thread to see this. What an uneducated and biased pair. I'll leave it at that to avoid the liberal banhammer in these parts. But I'm certainly thinking about leaving off my own back if this is what THE CBOARD has to say about football. Very disappointing.

this post is sort of funny(if serious), people slag off managers/players/refs and thier actions on here enough if you read the thread, your post makes you seem as one who ought to drop his bias/green tinted glasses a little, the old firm are nothing more than a fucking pantomime