I personally think the IBC should at least open up a VT class for new breeders since veils are so easy to breed. Would give new breeders good experience, IMO. Different chapters who host shows **I Believe** could add a veiltail class if they wanted to, but I'm not positive since the IBC doesn't have an official show standard for them.

One hand reaches out and pulls a lost soul from harm. While a thousand more go unspoken for, they say what good have you done? By saving just this one... It's like whispering a prayer in the fury of a storm. And I hear them saying... You'll never change things...MoonShadow Betta Fish RescueSaving the world one innocent life at a time

Huh, I've never heard that. Our petsmart has always allowed pitbulls and pit mixes into the training classes. They only don't accept dogs with a history of biting or aggression(especially at a young age) but my petsmart has been known for breaking the rules of most petsmarts I guess.

I think the biggest issue was the lack of agreement on what a proper veiltail standard should be. In general the standard always has to do with proportions and symmetry, something harder to do on veils. Wider tails? More like a spade? A certain angle? there was that nice 3d model of a possible standard to reach for. I think it would be fun to see.

Huh, I've never heard that. Our petsmart has always allowed pitbulls and pit mixes into the training classes. They only don't accept dogs with a history of biting or aggression(especially at a young age) but my petsmart has been known for breaking the rules of most petsmarts I guess.

I think the biggest issue was the lack of agreement on what a proper veiltail standard should be. In general the standard always has to do with proportions and symmetry, something harder to do on veils. Wider tails? More like a spade? A certain angle? there was that nice 3d model of a possible standard to reach for. I think it would be fun to see.

Well, who all is seriously interested in the project? Keeping in mind it could take years to reach the end result, cost a lot of money in between, and will most likely not get you in the history books for it...

I'm interested. I don't want to selectively breed without knowing what to breed for though. I'd also like to be able to trade bettas with similarly minded people at some point.

Veiltails are my favorite. These two are perfect examples of a pure veiltail. It's a shame that they're not allowed to enter the shows in the USA.

They can enter.. but they fall way short of the standard. Most are multi colored and they lack the balance we want in a show fish. Time and again the judging board has been open to VT standards. There has got to be a bar that can be set to measure against an no one is interested in going there. There has to be balance and symmetry even in a VT. Until those standards are developed they will never beat even a poor HM.

Basement Bettas ~ Breeder of Show Bettas
Currently ranked first in 2013-2014 Season
Nationally ranked 3rd in point standings 2011-2012
Nationally ranked 5th in point standings 2012-2013
Regular contributor to Flare!
Co-Founder BettaSource

I personally think the IBC should at least open up a VT class for new breeders since veils are so easy to breed. Would give new breeders good experience, IMO. Different chapters who host shows **I Believe** could add a veiltail class if they wanted to, but I'm not positive since the IBC doesn't have an official show standard for them.

THe New Breeder class is to get breeders ready for the open classes. They should be on a second or third generation by then so they get plenty of experience. Veils are no easier to breed then anything else except you can go down the street and buy one. With the work it takes to bring a spawn to size it does not make sense for those interested in showing to start with VT's. and for a show to provide ribbons. And how would it be judged? The pretty fish? Big fish? You have to have a standard to measure any entrant by and there just is not one for veils.

Basement Bettas ~ Breeder of Show Bettas
Currently ranked first in 2013-2014 Season
Nationally ranked 3rd in point standings 2011-2012
Nationally ranked 5th in point standings 2012-2013
Regular contributor to Flare!
Co-Founder BettaSource

"bettas can make a profit??!!" yes... And no. I learned to listen, ask, watch and study. I listened to the people in my area, listened to how and when to ship (if I were to), I asked for what people wanted and did not want, watched how info was given out by others, and studied tail types more. I found... People enjoy LEARNING but never CRITICISM. Saying "your a bad fish owner" VS "Bettas are actually tropical, and would live longer, healthier, with a heater set to 78-80. If a heater cannot be provided, try to keep the temperature from dropping below 76." I'd rather be informed them hollered at ;) also I found veils 1/5 liked, dumbos 1/5 knew about, 3/5 wanted crowns and 4/5 wanted half moons. I started to get all my stuff years ago so I had only an 8.00 fee for previous spawns and the most my next spawns were goin to cost was the cost of new breeders.

On that note ask around your area, especially if deciding to deal with veils. Ask them WHAT they want to see in a "perfect" veil. Pointy caudal? Long? Narrow? Wide? Also integrate dominant colors and patterns like (here people love them) Dalmatian and butterfly :)

Yes, I have thought this through I would like to get a line of veiltail going, but I would need to do what I stated above. Plus I no longer have extra tanks, just three... One holding an irridescent blue female from my last spawn (CT/VT resulting in a Shag Veil as I call it lol) and a multi colored female crown (tank divided) and the other holds a pet veil who is just an immitation Cambodian. :/ this last month was not kind to me and my "breeding colony" and plans.

Edit: for me a veiltail would had a decent caudal spread, that is Ben on both sides, meeting together at an even point, the anal would not be super long, and the dorsal would be wider without curled spikes. :) but, that's my idea lol.

Breed for the breed, not for the money; the words any REAL breeder would understand.

You must know nothing in order to know all, for all is nothing and nothing is for all.

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