HIwe have 4 fishes: a black moor, gobi, oranda and a 'goldfish' (Flash-ha-haa.)

when we got our tank we did all the stuff and let it settle for a week or so with the filter circulating the water, the end of May we added a black moor and Flash. after a week or so we noticed the black moor was not himself and through this forum i 'diagnosed' itch, we bought the white spot treatment and applied as per instructions, subsequently the black moor died.

following that we replaced with another black moor - who just decided not to eat and gave up the ghost too in a couple of days.

we now have added the new black moor, an oranda and a gobi. the oranda is not well - spending most of the time on bottom and showing the signs the first black moor had, and also the new black moor has signs of itch, however this times it looks more like a sheen, then individual spots but it moves his tail as if it was itching.

we have continued to treat for itch however my partner thinks he read somewhere that the treatment only treats the tank not the infected fishes. is this so?

Ok, how big is your tank?And like Cream Killer says test your water!If your fish are continously getting an ICH (not itch) outbreak then I'm suspecting that you may have a water quality problem. Maybe overcrowding, or not enough filtration, aeration etc.If the fish doesn't have small grains of sugar specks on him then that is not ich.It might be something else. If all the fish are infected, and your water quality (ammonia, nitrites, ph and nitrates) is good then I would take out the carbon and add to your tank, 1 TBS of salt to every 5 gallons of water and Melafix and Pimafix according to the bottles directions. Good Luck!

Yeah, itching (or flashing, as it is sometimes called) can be a symptom of parasites as well. If you see any moving or threadlike spots, that might be it.Everyone else is right- if Fishie has no specks, they're probably all right. Sometimes it takes a bit for the organisms in the tank to die, so keep an eye on your fishies and don't bring in any new ones. Ich is stubborn, but it is very treatable. And do keep an eye on your water chemistry in case you accidentally kill some of the good bacteria.

You should absolutely get yourself a water test kit, you should be able to buy them at any pet store, either as a set with pH, nitrite, nitrate and ammonia, or you can buy them one and one.And know that most infections and parasites are breaking out when water quality problems are present. So whenever your fish are acting strange/different, the first thing you should do is to test the water, and if the water's fine, you should start looking for visible symptoms. Such as behavioral symptoms, or physical marks on the skin, wounds... you know that stuff

But about your moor, I'd say that if there's a "film" of sorts covering him, he might just have velvet disease, which is quite common for moors, but if it looks like he's got an extra thick layer of mucus on himself, it could be either parasites or problems with the water quality.

Either way, I'd want some updates on the conditions of your fish, if possible Sorry about the oranda :'C (and the other losses)

Sounds like fin rot to me. Alot of times it starts in the tail.Your fish will need an oral antibiotic and maybe stronger medication than melafix.If you have aquarium salt treat with that and the melafixfor now. The sooner the better, since this will kill rather quickly.get an oral antibiotic and I use something called Rid-Ich+.It is stronger medication and works wonders on fin rot, ich parasites and all kinds of bacteria.You want to treat orally too tho. Your fish won't look good for awhile but the fins do grow back.

for a testkit I do recommend the API-MasterTestKit, it is not that cheap, but a very fair price considering the ammounts of tests you can do with it. BUT IT IS MUCH CHEAPER THAN BUYING ALL SINGLE TESTS. It contains solutions for Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and pH normal range and pH high range, 4 Test tubes with caps and an information booklet and colour cards for reading the test results. Very easy to do.

According to the illness, if it is not ick but a fungal infection you should treat like it already was mentioned with salt, Pimafix and Melafix according to instructions given.If this doesn't work, then there is the "shotgun" method , like Nossie calls it, with Malachite Green, Methylene Blue and Acriflavine. This is a Multicure from VitaPet. It also sais it treats white spot (ick/ich). But it destroys the beneficial bacteria too, so you will need to add that one to your filter media after treatment. Two other good products by API: StressZyme and StressCoat.

According to your bees: Is there a chance that there might be a 2nd Queen growing and they form a 2nd population? You may invest in more beehives?

Hope this helps & Hope your fishies will get healthy! Very sad to hear of your past losses

Some people die from the flu yet millions (?) of people get it every year and survive it, this would be the same with fish. Some stronger and older fish will be able to survive bad water conditions better than a fish you just brought which most likely would be young and in shock due to moving around. Therefore making it weak.

I agree with Mindamae that it sounds like fin rot aswell which can be treated with melafix. But it won't work unless you sort your water out first so as the others have said go get your water tested.

ok, decided will 'skive' off at lunchtime and get a water test kit. hope local pets at home have it (I am in Wales)

sort water out then get more fishes. only thing that 'worries' me is that flash when was alone was very miserable... and the gobi seems to just hang by the filter and be there... not much social skills!

Blacky the 2nd has gone over night as we expected.

thanks again for the help and advice!

Hanna: no second queen as they just arrived as new nuc but i guess after being locfked into a box and shuffled on country lane for good few myles, I would be myself! tackling the girls tonight again.

Thank you Nabi! Good idea posting a picture so people can see what kind of test kit we are talking about so much! If local petshops don't carry some of the medications we suggest, like Melafix, then i'm sure they can get that online too like places like Amazon.

I don't understand why you would get two new fishes when you haven't even tested your water? Maybe that older oranda is trying to tell you something!AND you really should quarantine any new fish you get for at least 2 weeks. You need to make sure your water is in pristine condition before introducing new fish to it, testing the water before and after putting in the new fish.Just going and buying new fish and dumping them in a tank you've been having problems with is not a good idea!

I see that someone wrote about salt treatment in the tank, i think its better to treat with salt in another tank - cuz if you have to treat for white spots, then the fish dies if there are salt in the water.

Flash: So tell your husband that it's a very bad idea to be getting new fish while the "old" ones are being sick and when you still don't know how the water is... And like Mindemae said, ANY NEW FISH NEED QUARANTINE FOR 2 WEEKS MINIMUM. I keep mine 3 weeks, always. In a weak salt treatment to kill off parasites and possible fungus and the like. (Sometimes I add bacterial med too)

Clab: The fish shouldn't die from salt in the water o_O It's a remedy that's been used for years and years to treat for all kinds of fish disease. And it also works as a kind of tonic for the fish, relieving the pressure on them when they're sick, or during nitrite spikes. So what do you mean, if I may ask?

I cant seem to find a tekst in english, but the Koi owners and dealers i have talked to, says that using salt in the pond, eliminates the use of Formalin and Malachite Green, for treating for white spots.

Here is a good article for white spot in general : (Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.)

Formalin and salt do not mix, and this combination will make your fish even sicker than they were before. This is often true for other anti-parasite meds, so always research before mixing anything in the water.

Ok, the Rid-Ich+ does contain Formalin but it also contains salt. I did use aquarium salt with it with fantastic results and no casualties so I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that. I used the standard 1 TBS aquarium salt per 5 gallons of water.Could it be if you would use table salt? Which you should never use since some of the binders in table salt are toxic to fish.There are no warnings on the bottle for not using aquarium salt with this product! Also, I wanted to add that Rid-Ich+ is safe for FRESHWATER as well as SALTWATER.

The combination of formalin and salt strip the fish not only from its Cuticle ( consisting of mucus, antibodies and lysozymos) but also of the Epidermis ( Malpighain cells) and Goblet Cells ( mucus secreting) which leave the fish unprotected to infections, sometime called as skin burn. Also damaging the gils.