I started reading this thread about 1 year ago and have read the WHOLE thing. Parts of it, I've read many times, both for the education and for just sheer enjoyment.

I live in Colorado but visited by sister and her family about 4 years ago. They took me to Ocean City and insisted that I have pizza at (then) Mack and Mancos. The line that day was about 20 people out the door, but we waited and waited and finally got in. It was worth the wait! I just loved the pizza and so decided to search for the recipe online, which led me to this site.

I'd like to thank you, especially, Norma, for all of your experimenting on this thread and for generously sharing your findings. Many a night, I have gone to sleep with visions of Gangi Supreme Super Heavy Pizza Sauce and Long Horn cheddar dancing in my head. It's been quite a journey and I agree with an earlier poster who commented that this story should be turned into a film. Would actually make a great documentary.

I've tried several of the recipes in my home oven and agree with the direction you've taken the pizza. (Your last couple of pizza's are GORGEOUS and I feel are probably better than what Mack's is producing now, according to the recent photos and your reports.)

My family is enjoying my experimentation on this, so your efforts are making people happy across the country, whether you realize it or not!

Last weekend I tried your recipe from post 1656 as modified in post 1696. For those playing at home, for a 14 inch pizza (initial TF of 0.0850) the recipe is:

I liked this a lot, but will try a 2.5% Salt next time. I remember you posting earlier that the Mack's crust tasted very salty when you re-heated it, but mine didn't.

Here are a few pictures of my latest effort. For flour I used KABF. I used the WalMart paste (doctored up like Ev does it) and I used Cracker Barrel Extra Sharp Cheddar Cheese (which I didn't know was "orange" until I opened the package, LOL) along with a mozzarella, about a 50/50 blend.

P.S. I would be willing to get a Pinocchio, Geppetto, and Jiminy cricket if you feel it will help my pizzas to be more like yours.

Best,

Tim

Tim,

You sure have great perseverance if you read though this thread even one time. My brother also lives in Colorado.

I am glad you got to try a Manco & Manco pizza. Lol, about you going to sleep with visions of Gangi Supreme Super Heavy Pizza Sauce and Long Horn cheddar dancing in your head. I am also glad your family is enjoying your experimentations. I would say that Mack's crust is salty sometimes. As you might have seen in some of my recent posts and other members posts Mack's and Manco & Manco aren't always consistent with their pizzas. Steve just recently had the same experience that I did when he tried a pizza at Manco & Manco.

Your pizza looks very good.

I don't think Pinoocchio, Geppetto and Jiminy Cricket really helped, but they were fun to play around with.

I don't know if you saw, but I have recently had a tomato pie at Joey's in Trenton, NJ. They are somehow related to Marcuras and they also make tomato pies taste like Mack's pizzas tasted years ago and not like Mack's or Manco & Manco pizzas do now. Somehow all these families are related and I intend to get to the bottom of how they all started if I can. If you are interested, this is the thread I recently started. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,25251.0.html Peter gave me a formulation to try later in that thread.

I am not finished in trying to create a Mack's pizza that I recall from many years ago.

Keep posting your experiments and let me know if you think you ever really created a Manco & Manco pizza like you had in Ocean City, NJ.

Thanks for the encouragement and link to yet another highly interesting thread. You're doing a great job in researching this pizza style (someone's gotta do it, right? ).

I think that book that you mentioned earlier, "Slice of Jersey" (http://www.amazon.com/dp/1597252611/?tag=pizzamaking-20) would probably have a good explanation of the origins of these "Trenton tomato pies" but visiting the actual restaurants and talking to the owners is an even better (and tastier) way to do your research.

I'll keep posting my experiments and will be following along with you as you keep creating these delicious pies.

Thanks for the encouragement and link to yet another highly interesting thread. You're doing a great job in researching this pizza style (someone's gotta do it, right? ).

I think that book that you mentioned earlier, "Slice of Jersey" (http://www.amazon.com/dp/1597252611/?tag=pizzamaking-20) would probably have a good explanation of the origins of these "Trenton tomato pies" but visiting the actual restaurants and talking to the owners is an even better (and tastier) way to do your research.

I'll keep posting my experiments and will be following along with you as you keep creating these delicious pies.

--Tim

Tim,

Lol, yes I guess someone has to do the research on this style of pizza. At least it has given me opportunities to go to shore points and now Trenton. I do get discouraged sometimes when my pizzas don't turn out right though. I also think my continued interest in tomato pies came from Papa Dino's in Lancaster. Their pizzas aren't what they used to be either, but at one time they were really good in my opinion. I never knew they were like Tomato Pies either until I joined the forum. I don't know if you saw my thread about Papa Dino's, but it is under Pizzeria and Restaurant reviews. I took photos and a video there. Maybe I will have to talk to the owner at Papa Dino's about tomato pies. I did try to call Joey's Pizza and talk to the owner, but he hasn't called me back yet. I also sent an email to Joey's. I would think that Joey's would know something about how tomato pies started in Trenton.

I even forgot about that “Slice of Jersey” book. I know I am getting old, because I can't recall everything on this thread and I am the one that did a lot of posting on this thread. I might need to purchase the “Slice of Jersey” book, or talk to someone that has read it.

Great to hear you will keep up with your experiments. I think when I try to make another tomato pie I will start a new thread just about if I can make a decent tomato pie like Joey's. This thread is getting so long and I have changed things so many times.

LOL that you forgot you had posted about that book, but I completely understand! I often have about 12 "tabs" open in my browser when I'm on this forum and it gets confusing to keep track of what I have read and where.

Your Papa Dino's thread was also interesting. Outstanding detective work as usual! I thought it was interesting in your video of the pie man, the way he crimped the edges of his dough to make the crust. I tried that in a pizza tonight and it worked very well to create a nice rim.

I think it's a great idea to start a new thread on Trenton Tomato pies. I'll look forward to following along on your continuing adventures.

LOL that you forgot you had posted about that book, but I completely understand! I often have about 12 "tabs" open in my browser when I'm on this forum and it gets confusing to keep track of what I have read and where.

Your Papa Dino's thread was also interesting. Outstanding detective work as usual! I thought it was interesting in your video of the pie man, the way he crimped the edges of his dough to make the crust. I tried that in a pizza tonight and it worked very well to create a nice rim.

I think it's a great idea to start a new thread on Trenton Tomato pies. I'll look forward to following along on your continuing adventures.

--Tim

Tim,

My memory isn't what it used to be and this forum is still confusing to me too in all the information it contains. I guess when you get older it is harder to recall everything that is read. At least that is the way it is for me. Lol, about you having about 12 tabs open in your browser when you are on the forum and how it is also confusing to keep track of what you have read and where. I do use the advanced search feature fairly often to search for what I want to be able to find. I usually know where I posted, but don't remember all I have posted here on the forum.

Hello everyone, I am an avid cook but just recently started experimenting with making my own pizza. This site has been invaluable to getting me started. I am posting because I am trying to find some help replicating the Pizza style found on the NJ Boardwalks. Specifically pizza made by "Macs" or "Mac and Manco's". I live in Philadelphia so I have tons of great pizza places near me but Macs pizza from the boardwalk is just something different. I have already figured out that they use a blend of cheese (mozzarella and white cheddar) It may sound odd but it gives there pizza a unique taste. I have been trying different things with the sauce with decent results but there pizzas are notoriously light on the sauce so I am not as concerned with that right now. My main issue is with the crust. It is definitely a thin and crispy crust, but I don't know that I would call it crackery and some of the thin crackery recipes I have tried actually seemed too thin. It is not doughy or chewy at all just thin and crispy. I was going to post this in the thin and crackery section but I wasn't positive about that. Anyway, I'm just really hoping there is someone on here from the area that has had Mac and Manco's pizza before. Maybe if someone here has had it before even if they can't help with the recipe they can post their thoughts on the pizza and maybe help me describe it a little better. I am going to attach some pictures of the pizza.

I know this is years later but my wife is relatives with the Manco family and has the pizza crust recipe they use written down somewhere. I should try to find it.

Been awhile since I looked at this thread. All this talk about Mack's & Manco's, mango & Manco's, and Mack's got me salivating. Forecast says no rain today so looks like I am pulling the softtail out of the garage and heading to the shore for a fix!

Been awhile since I looked at this thread. All this talk about Mack's & Manco's, mango & Manco's, and Mack's got me salivating. Forecast says no rain today so looks like I am pulling the softtail out of the garage and heading to the shore for a fix!

Tj,

Sounds great! Let us know how the pizza is. Have fun at the shore too!

LOL that you forgot you had posted about that book, but I completely understand! I often have about 12 "tabs" open in my browser when I'm on this forum and it gets confusing to keep track of what I have read and where.

Your Papa Dino's thread was also interesting. Outstanding detective work as usual! I thought it was interesting in your video of the pie man, the way he crimped the edges of his dough to make the crust. I tried that in a pizza tonight and it worked very well to create a nice rim.

I think it's a great idea to start a new thread on Trenton Tomato pies. I'll look forward to following along on your continuing adventures.

--Tim

Speaking of Trenton tomato pies, Papa's, the oldest pizzeria in the US is opening a new location in Robbinsville!

Been awhile since I looked at this thread. All this talk about Mack's & Manco's, mango & Manco's, and Mack's got me salivating. Forecast says no rain today so looks like I am pulling the softtail out of the garage and heading to the shore for a fix!

It doesn't matter if it is years later, but if your wife has the recipe written down somewhere for the Manco & Manco dough members would be interested in hearing what it is.

I also would be interested, like Steve, in knowing if your wife knows what cheese brand Manco & Manco used even if she would know what cheese they used years ago.

Norma

According to her family recipe book, 1.5 cup of lukewarm water, 1 tsp of salt, 3 cups of flour, and 1/4 teaspoon of olive oil. It came from her Aunt Mary Manco. At this point, they are distant relatives. No information on the cheese or sauce though.

According to her family recipe book, 1.5 cup of lukewarm water, 1 tsp of salt, 3 cups of flour, and 1/4 teaspoon of olive oil. It came from her Aunt Mary Manco. At this point, they are distant relatives. No information on the cheese or sauce though.

According to her family recipe book, 1.5 cup of lukewarm water, 1 tsp of salt, 3 cups of flour, and 1/4 teaspoon of olive oil. It came from her Aunt Mary Manco. At this point, they are distant relatives. No information on the cheese or sauce though.

Thanks so much and I also would be interested like Peter in knowing the yeast amount if Aunt Mary Manco wrote it down.

oops, it said 1 pkg of dry yeast. I think her Aunt modified it for home use.

Thanks about the yeast amount BenLee! Do you know what kind of flour that is supposed to be used for that recipe? It seems like it would be a quick dough with that amount of yeast. It does look like her Aunt modified it for home use.

Nah, that's just what's written. To be honest, her grandmother copied the recipe, probably 40 years ago, and never bothered to write down the brand. I figure though, at least the ratio's they use is pretty useful.

Nah, that's just what's written. To be honest, her grandmother copied the recipe, probably 40 years ago, and never bothered to write down the brand. I figure though, at least the ratio's they use is pretty useful.

BenLee,

The ratio's of ingredients are helpful. I ate at Mack's pizza over 40 years ago and their pizzas were better then in my opinion.

Just about everywhere was better then And this isn't old man rose tinted "things just aren't what they used to be" glasses I'm wearing, either. Pizza was way better.

Scott,

I know I posted that over 40 years ago I thought Mack's pizza was better than it is now, but do you think that maybe that might have to do with me tasting and making more pizzas myself now? I know you also did eat pizzas pretty many years ago in NY and NJ and I tasted a fair amount of pizzas in Brooklyn and around NYC in the last 20 or so years. I wonder if both of us have decided since we have been able to make and taste our own pizzas if that doesn't have something to do how we perceive those pizzas of years ago. I wouldn't think that Mack's or some of those pizzerias in NY have changed their dough recipes or their ingredients in the intervening years that much. Even a couple of years ago I thought Mack's pizza is way better than it is now. You even mentioned in one of my threads that your beloved Joe's Pizzas have also deteriorated in taste somewhat.

scott123

Norma, when it comes to pizza (as well as food in general), my taste buds have a photographic memory. My most vivid memories revolve around food- around taste.

My local neighborhood pizzeria, Suvios, opened in 1979. Because they had video games in the back, and because there was a video game arcade a couple doors up, from the moment it opened, I was there almost every non school non sleeping moment. Right now, I can close my eyes and go right back to that taste. The little bit of char on the undercrust, the almost white incredibly puffy rim, the gummy pink nodules of the crust when you pull the cheese away. It's seared into my mind. I can't really remember my first kiss as well as I can remember my first slice My closest description would be Best, but puffier and far more flavorful. Most of my adult life was spent trying to recreate that slice, and, for the most part, I'm confident that I have.

When Suvios opened, for about the first 5 years, they traded county newspaper accolades with a place across town, Pete's. Pete's was a little more golden brown and had a lot more oregano. This was all happening when I was in junior high school, so I didn't have access to a car, but I had a bike, and I biked to Pete's quite a lot. I recall being dropped off at the library once, and rather than studying, walking to Pete's for a slice and Baskin Robbins for a chocolate shake Pete's was different, but just as phenomenal as Suvios and well worthy of the awards.

The moment I got my driver's license, I was in the family car driving everywhere. My friends and I covered unbelievable ground. We didn't cross over the Hudson River, but we ate pizza all over Northern NJ. And we weren't obsessives. We were just teenagers, getting into trouble, and grabbing a slice. Back then, that was pretty much what teenagers ate. Suvios and Pete's were a bit of a pinnacle of the pizza at the time. The huge slices in Hoboken where in this realm as well, but everything seemed to be a notch below. But that notch was minimal. It was like Suvios/Pete/Hoboken were a 10 and everywhere else was 9.75. You'd be really hard pressed to find anything mediocre. It wasn't until about 15 years later, when I moved into Manhattan where I first started discovering mediocre, uninspired pizza (midtown! ). At the same time, though, I also discovered Joes. If Suvios was a 10, Joes circa 1993 was an 11- at the time, Joe's was another universe.

But 1993 takes us outside of the era presently being discussed. From 1979 through 1990, in Northern NJ (and most likely all the outer boroughs, since the same Italian American population was distributed throughout these areas fairly equally) it was as difficult getting a less than great slice as it is to find a decent slice now- an entire region of 9.75 to 10 quality pizza transformed into almost ubiquitous 2-4 grade pies. Suvios is still around, as is Pete's, but, like everywhere else, it's all taken a turn towards mediocrity.

It appears that the recipe that BenLee posted was a home recipe, not a commercial one. I am using my iPad today and can't show you the dough formulation usig the expanded dough calculating tool, but three cups of flour with 1 1/2 cups of water yields a hydration of over 80%, even when using a high gluten flour measured out with a fairly heavy hand (scooping, shaking, etc.). Also, a full packet of yeast would correspond more to an emergency type of dough. It's also hard to know what to make of the small amounts of salt and oil called for by the recipe at this point.