The first movie had a series of comic book tie-ins released that were canonical to this timeline. One of those included Gary Mitchell. Yep, he still gained his god-like powers, and yep he was still killed. Supposedly it took place before the events of the reboot. I'm not exactly sure because I'm not that geeky to have actually got this, but I've heard about it.

Well it all depends on what they are counting as canon or not.

To use the Star Wars Expanded Universe as an example; All EU stuff is canon... till George Lucas said it wasn't. The movies trumped all.

They could easily say the same thing for the Star Trek Expanded Universe too.

Is there any history of non-television/film material being canon for Star Trek, aside from the 2009 film's comic prequel? Hell, even the animated series is barely considered canon.

Not that I know of.

/I enjoyed Shatner's fapathon to himself though//"The Return" was a really neat book

Yes. It was generally boring, got the first series cancelled, and really sunk the second series for most of the first season or so. They they started focusing on characters and a consistent arcing plot and it gained more traction. By the time you got to the DS9, it was all about the people and the longer term plot, not about trekking from one system to the next to fight the weird villain/plot device of the week. And it was at the top of its popularity.

Why go back to the failed formula? I'm not saying there isn't good material from back in the earliest days, but ST no longer functions like The Twilight Zone - self contained exploratory episodes aren't of interest, even to most classic Trek fans. They want character driven plots and a story that survives the current episode/movie.

The first movie had a series of comic book tie-ins released that were canonical to this timeline. One of those included Gary Mitchell. Yep, he still gained his god-like powers, and yep he was still killed. Supposedly it took place before the events of the reboot. I'm not exactly sure because I'm not that geeky to have actually got this, but I've heard about it.

Well it all depends on what they are counting as canon or not.

To use the Star Wars Expanded Universe as an example; All EU stuff is canon... till George Lucas said it wasn't. The movies trumped all.

They could easily say the same thing for the Star Trek Expanded Universe too.

None of the Trek books have ever been considered canonical. The prequel comics were the first printed media to be considered canonical AFAIK.

The first movie had a series of comic book tie-ins released that were canonical to this timeline. One of those included Gary Mitchell. Yep, he still gained his god-like powers, and yep he was still killed. Supposedly it took place before the events of the reboot. I'm not exactly sure because I'm not that geeky to have actually got this, but I've heard about it.

Well it all depends on what they are counting as canon or not.

To use the Star Wars Expanded Universe as an example; All EU stuff is canon... till George Lucas said it wasn't. The movies trumped all.

They could easily say the same thing for the Star Trek Expanded Universe too.

None of the Trek books have ever been considered canonical. The prequel comics were the first printed media to be considered canonical AFAIK.

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face:As a longtime Trek fan who really did enjoy the 2009 reboot, I have to say this:

whofarkingcares.jpg

Congrats, Abrams, your playing footsie with the fans made me apathetic to the franchise again. Stop it with all this 'what a tweest' B.S. and tell us a goddamn story already.

I'm glad I have something to disagree with in this post, otherwise I'd feel icky agreeing with Jim Tressel on anything!

I don't care who the villain is. The villain from the reboot was a nobody, a new character (who sucked, but that's just me being biatchy) with no ties to anything in the past. Maybe the new villain is similar. Maybe it's Gary Mitchell. Maybe it's Khan. Maybe it's actually Khan working for Harry Mudd. I don't farking care right now. What I want is a story that isn't designed to make you actively shut your brain off to oogle the pretty sparklies.

The first movie had a series of comic book tie-ins released that were canonical to this timeline. One of those included Gary Mitchell. Yep, he still gained his god-like powers, and yep he was still killed. Supposedly it took place before the events of the reboot. I'm not exactly sure because I'm not that geeky to have actually got this, but I've heard about it.

Well it all depends on what they are counting as canon or not.

To use the Star Wars Expanded Universe as an example; All EU stuff is canon... till George Lucas said it wasn't. The movies trumped all.

They could easily say the same thing for the Star Trek Expanded Universe too.

Is there any history of non-television/film material being canon for Star Trek, aside from the 2009 film's comic prequel? Hell, even the animated series is barely considered canon.

Not that I know of.

/I enjoyed Shatner's fapathon to himself though//"The Return" was a really neat book

Speaking of Shatner, I'm really surprised TekWar hasn't gotten a big budget reboot of some sort. Or even a SyFy series treatment. It's been twenty years, give it another shot.

Techhell:Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: As a longtime Trek fan who really did enjoy the 2009 reboot, I have to say this:

whofarkingcares.jpg

Congrats, Abrams, your playing footsie with the fans made me apathetic to the franchise again. Stop it with all this 'what a tweest' B.S. and tell us a goddamn story already.

I'm glad I have something to disagree with in this post, otherwise I'd feel icky agreeing with Jim Tressel on anything!

I don't care who the villain is. The villain from the reboot was a nobody, a new character (who sucked, but that's just me being biatchy) with no ties to anything in the past. Maybe the new villain is similar. Maybe it's Gary Mitchell. Maybe it's Khan. Maybe it's actually Khan working for Harry Mudd. I don't farking care right now. What I want is a story that isn't designed to make you actively shut your brain off to oogle the pretty sparklies.

simplicimus:Wellon Dowd: simplicimus: Anyone remember the plot device that sent Enterprise across the barrier?

Mitchell was Kirk's best friend until he was changed by the barrier. I don't see how they can make him go bad in a different time and place without it seeming really forced. More importantly, why take characters from the alternative time line to some hardcore fans happy and then change their nature? Most of the people who are going to pay to see this movie have no idea who Gary Mitchell is. Use the alternative-timeline-reboot to explore new characters and new stories.

That episode made little sense anyway. The whole crew goes through the barrier and only 2 turn into demi-gods?

If I recall correctly, the barrier was put there to imprison a rather nasty entity by the Q Continuum, because Q screwed the f-ing pooch when he decided to toy with The Guardian (the "City on the Edge of Forever" portal thingy). When the Enterprise went through the barrier, Mitchell and the psychologist lady underwent something of psychic contamination, for lack of a better terminology, ultimately leading to their corruption, especially on Mitchell's part. This was directly due to characters' high ESP quotient, which the vast majority of humans did not share, and was largely a genetic quirk.

All in all, I'll give Abrams the benefit of the doubt on this one. It's looking like he's updated and expanded upon the original content of the source material in potentially interesting ways.

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face:As a longtime Trek fan who really did enjoy the 2009 reboot, I have to say this:

whofarkingcares.jpg

Congrats, Abrams, your playing footsie with the fans made me apathetic to the franchise again. Stop it with all this 'what a tweest' B.S. and tell us a goddamn story already.

The trailer just came out like a week ago. Playing footsie with the fans =/= not revealing the entire plot at the same moment you unveil the movie, and the story will be told in the movie itself. The Marvel movies are coy about who the villains are and all that, do you instantly fly into a rage with all of those too? It really only takes you 4 days without a concrete "here is the entire cast list and plot points" leak to get apathetic? Sound like quite the fan.

/Sorry dudes, I tried watching first 2 seasons of TOS and TNG both and just couldnt do it//The last movie was alright though

Electromax:Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: As a longtime Trek fan who really did enjoy the 2009 reboot, I have to say this:

whofarkingcares.jpg

Congrats, Abrams, your playing footsie with the fans made me apathetic to the franchise again. Stop it with all this 'what a tweest' B.S. and tell us a goddamn story already.

The trailer just came out like a week ago. Playing footsie with the fans =/= not revealing the entire plot at the same moment you unveil the movie, and the story will be told in the movie itself. The Marvel movies are coy about who the villains are and all that, do you instantly fly into a rage with all of those too? It really only takes you 4 days without a concrete "here is the entire cast list and plot points" leak to get apathetic? Sound like quite the fan.

/Sorry dudes, I tried watching first 2 seasons of TOS and TNG both and just couldnt do it//The last movie was alright though

TOS Season 1 and TNG seasons 1 and 2 are well known as the poorest in the series. FYI.

Cumberbatch is probably playing Khan's right hand man, the guy he's yelling at in the picture up thread. I'll bet that it's not a redo of Wrath of Khan, just a redo of Space Seed. Perhaps Khan's ship is discovered and they're taken back to earth in custody of Starfleet, and Cumberbatch manages to escape somehow. Then he returns to rescue his "family", aka Khan and company. With Peter Weller probably playing Khan.

NeoCortex42:Ol' Derpy Bastard: If I recall correctly, the barrier was put there to imprison a rather nasty entity by the Q Continuum, because Q screwed the f-ing pooch when he decided to toy with The Guardian (the "City on the Edge of Forever" portal thingy).

That was a fun book series:[ecimages.kobobooks.com image 220x360]

I've never read any of the books, because reading is for pussies and shiat. But I remember that there were a few episodes in TNG series devoted to the whole back story of Q, the entity named Zero and its buddies, and how the Continuum were forced to step in to try to unfark everything done in the past. It came to the point that the Q were nearly destroyed, because lulz.

born_yesterday:Techhell: Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: As a longtime Trek fan who really did enjoy the 2009 reboot, I have to say this:

whofarkingcares.jpg

Congrats, Abrams, your playing footsie with the fans made me apathetic to the franchise again. Stop it with all this 'what a tweest' B.S. and tell us a goddamn story already.

I'm glad I have something to disagree with in this post, otherwise I'd feel icky agreeing with Jim Tressel on anything!

I don't care who the villain is. The villain from the reboot was a nobody, a new character (who sucked, but that's just me being biatchy) with no ties to anything in the past. Maybe the new villain is similar. Maybe it's Gary Mitchell. Maybe it's Khan. Maybe it's actually Khan working for Harry Mudd. I don't farking care right now. What I want is a story that isn't designed to make you actively shut your brain off to oogle the pretty sparklies.

Jim from Saint Paul:TOS Season 1 and TNG seasons 1 and 2 are well known as the poorest in the series. FYI.

/try DS9

If you think Season 1 of TOS is bad, better not try to watch Season 3./Brain. Brain. What is brain?

Ol' Derpy Bastard:I've never read any of the books, because reading is for pussies and shiat. But I remember that there were a few episodes in TNG series devoted to the whole back story of Q, the entity named Zero and its buddies, and how the Continuum were forced to step in to try to unfark everything done in the past. It came to the point that the Q were nearly destroyed, because lulz.

TNG episodes? I don't think so, unless I'm forgetting something. The deepest look we got at the Continuum was when Corbin Bernson showed up or when that young Q girl discovered her powers.

Voyager had a whole story arc about the Continuum, including the civil war, but I still don't remember Zero and Q's fark-ups ever being mentioned. Then again, I've tried to forget a lot of what was shown in Voyager.

KPatrickGlover:Cumberbatch is probably playing Khan's right hand man, the guy he's yelling at in the picture up thread. I'll bet that it's not a redo of Wrath of Khan, just a redo of Space Seed. Perhaps Khan's ship is discovered and they're taken back to earth in custody of Starfleet, and Cumberbatch manages to escape somehow. Then he returns to rescue his "family", aka Khan and company. With Peter Weller probably playing Khan.

"But with shooting finally completed and Karl Urban, who plays Bones in the Star Trek movies, doing press for his role in the upcoming Dredd, some real information might have leaked out at last."

"He's awesome, he's a great addition, and I think his Gary Mitchell is going to be exemplary."

Link to relevant article.

The same article also states that Roberto Orci included Gary Mitchell in a list of characters who would NOT be in the movie. So the producers are going out of their way to throw up smokescreens and encourage rabid speculation.

Jim from Saint Paul:KPatrickGlover: Cumberbatch is probably playing Khan's right hand man, the guy he's yelling at in the picture up thread. I'll bet that it's not a redo of Wrath of Khan, just a redo of Space Seed. Perhaps Khan's ship is discovered and they're taken back to earth in custody of Starfleet, and Cumberbatch manages to escape somehow. Then he returns to rescue his "family", aka Khan and company. With Peter Weller probably playing Khan.

Man you had me till that.

Are you kidding? That made me excited for any chance of it to be true. We had 'Screamers' on last night and that piece of shiat PKD flick is way more fun than it has any right to be, and it's 80% because of Weller.

/the other 20% are the bits in the movie that actually feel PKD inspired.

Jim from Saint Paul:KPatrickGlover: Cumberbatch is probably playing Khan's right hand man, the guy he's yelling at in the picture up thread. I'll bet that it's not a redo of Wrath of Khan, just a redo of Space Seed. Perhaps Khan's ship is discovered and they're taken back to earth in custody of Starfleet, and Cumberbatch manages to escape somehow. Then he returns to rescue his "family", aka Khan and company. With Peter Weller probably playing Khan.

Man you had me till that.

Don't like Weller?

Actually, at this point, I'm almost ready to put money on it. It's the only theory I can think up that doesn't contradict things we know or have seen about the film.

NeoCortex42:TNG episodes? I don't think so, unless I'm forgetting something. The deepest look we got at the Continuum was when Corbin Bernson showed up or when that young Q girl discovered her powers.

Voyager had a whole story arc about the Continuum, including the civil war, but I still don't remember Zero and Q's fark-ups ever being mentioned. Then again, I've tried to forget a lot of what was shown in Voyager.

That.

I am 6 episodes into Season 7 of Voygaer (having watched all of TOS, TNG and DS9 before it). Nothing of Q's past is mentioned. He tries to make the babbys with Janeway and eventually tries to get Janeway to watch his toddler later in this last season.

dennerman:some_beer_drinker: it's not fARKING khan....for the love of god. Gary++++farking++++mitchell......gahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Or, you know, you could scroll down on the Fark page and read that they have revealed the name of his character and it's not Kahn or Gary Mitchell.http://badassdigest.com/2012/12/10/confirmed-benedict-cumberbatch-is- p laying...-john-harrson/

Now, that too could be a ruse of course, but it's what we know for now.

Since JJ said the main villain was "from cannon"...then John Harrison isn't his "real" name. Now, that may be a lie too, but stop with the "It's a new person, see?" argument.

Oh, and nobody start with the "John Harrison WAS in the original series, a bunch of times" crap - that's an old joke, and lame.

NeoCortex42:Jim from Saint Paul: TOS Season 1 and TNG seasons 1 and 2 are well known as the poorest in the series. FYI.

/try DS9

If you think Season 1 of TOS is bad, better not try to watch Season 3./Brain. Brain. What is brain?

Ol' Derpy Bastard: I've never read any of the books, because reading is for pussies and shiat. But I remember that there were a few episodes in TNG series devoted to the whole back story of Q, the entity named Zero and its buddies, and how the Continuum were forced to step in to try to unfark everything done in the past. It came to the point that the Q were nearly destroyed, because lulz.

TNG episodes? I don't think so, unless I'm forgetting something. The deepest look we got at the Continuum was when Corbin Bernson showed up or when that young Q girl discovered her powers.

Voyager had a whole story arc about the Continuum, including the civil war, but I still don't remember Zero and Q's fark-ups ever being mentioned. Then again, I've tried to forget a lot of what was shown in Voyager.

Yeah, living up to me name, and you're right I'm mixing up Voyager with extra-cannon info that a very good friend mine and Trek nerd has yakked about in the past. All the various ST series are muddled in my mind anymore, especially since I have not watched any of it in years, with the exception of the reboot. Disregard.

The first movie had a series of comic book tie-ins released that were canonical to this timeline. One of those included Gary Mitchell. Yep, he still gained his god-like powers, and yep he was still killed. Supposedly it took place before the events of the reboot. I'm not exactly sure because I'm not that geeky to have actually got this, but I've heard about it.

Comic book characters come back all the time. It seems to me that if everyone thinks he's dead, then him coming back for some kind of vengeance against the people who nearly got him killed/abandoned him is perfect movie villain logic.

KPatrickGlover:Cumberbatch is probably playing Khan's right hand man, the guy he's yelling at in the picture up thread. I'll bet that it's not a redo of Wrath of Khan, just a redo of Space Seed. Perhaps Khan's ship is discovered and they're taken back to earth in custody of Starfleet, and Cumberbatch manages to escape somehow. Then he returns to rescue his "family", aka Khan and company. With Peter Weller probably playing Khan.

Thinking about the books a bit more, I have a great idea for a new television series: An animated anthology series based on the novels. One week is an episode based at Starfleet Academy. The next week adapts Imzadi. Then we get some post-finale DS9 story, or Section 31 tale. They can just cherry-pick the best books in each series and alternate from one series to another over the course of a season or two. Hell, they could probably still convince Shatner and Takei to reprise their roles for a few episodes doing voice work.

NeoCortex42:KPatrickGlover: Doesn't have to be a former member of Starfleet, just because he's wearing a Starfleet uniform. Look at Space Seed. Khan was wearing a Starfleet uniform after he was brought aboard.

KPatrickGlover:Cumberbatch is probably playing Khan's right hand man, the guy he's yelling at in the picture up thread. I'll bet that it's not a redo of Wrath of Khan, just a redo of Space Seed. Perhaps Khan's ship is discovered and they're taken back to earth in custody of Starfleet, and Cumberbatch manages to escape somehow. Then he returns to rescue his "family", aka Khan and company. With Peter Weller probably playing Khan.

KPatrickGlover:NeoCortex42: KPatrickGlover: Doesn't have to be a former member of Starfleet, just because he's wearing a Starfleet uniform. Look at Space Seed. Khan was wearing a Starfleet uniform after he was brought aboard.

He was? I remember him just wearing casual attire.

[cdn.hometheaterforum.com image 700x530]

I love it when he wakes up on the Enterprise for the first time, and holds a scalpel to McCoy's throat.

McCoy tells him to hold it two inches higher to be sure to hit the carotid artery.

Arn_Dee:KPatrickGlover: Cumberbatch is probably playing Khan's right hand man, the guy he's yelling at in the picture up thread. I'll bet that it's not a redo of Wrath of Khan, just a redo of Space Seed. Perhaps Khan's ship is discovered and they're taken back to earth in custody of Starfleet, and Cumberbatch manages to escape somehow. Then he returns to rescue his "family", aka Khan and company. With Peter Weller probably playing Khan.

KPatrickGlover:NeoCortex42: KPatrickGlover: Doesn't have to be a former member of Starfleet, just because he's wearing a Starfleet uniform. Look at Space Seed. Khan was wearing a Starfleet uniform after he was brought aboard.

He was? I remember him just wearing casual attire.

[cdn.hometheaterforum.com image 700x530]

Well, there ya go. I guess it's been too long since I've watched that episode. Time to rewatch it.

born_yesterday:I love it when he wakes up on the Enterprise for the first time, and holds a scalpel to McCoy's throat.

McCoy tells him to hold it two inches higher to be sure to hit the carotid artery.

KPatrickGlover:Cumberbatch is probably playing Khan's right hand man, the guy he's yelling at in the picture up thread. I'll bet that it's not a redo of Wrath of Khan, just a redo of Space Seed. Perhaps Khan's ship is discovered and they're taken back to earth in custody of Starfleet, and Cumberbatch manages to escape somehow. Then he returns to rescue his "family", aka Khan and company. With Peter Weller probably playing Khan.

"Dead or alive you are coming with me. Dead or aliiiiiiiiive. Dead or aliiiiiiive...."

NeoCortex42:KPatrickGlover: NeoCortex42: KPatrickGlover: Doesn't have to be a former member of Starfleet, just because he's wearing a Starfleet uniform. Look at Space Seed. Khan was wearing a Starfleet uniform after he was brought aboard.

He was? I remember him just wearing casual attire.

[cdn.hometheaterforum.com image 700x530]

Well, there ya go. I guess it's been too long since I've watched that episode. Time to rewatch it.

born_yesterday: I love it when he wakes up on the Enterprise for the first time, and holds a scalpel to McCoy's throat.

McCoy tells him to hold it two inches higher to be sure to hit the carotid artery.

/Or something like that//Don't fark with Bones in his own Medlab.

And yes, that is one of McCoy's most badass moments in all of Trek.

Karl Urban is going to totally crush that scene when Khan shows up in the movie.

KPatrickGlover:Critch: It's not Khan. The villian in this is a former member of Starfleet with enhanced abilities, but Khan was never in Starfleet.

It's not Gary Mitchell. Mitchell had psychokinetic powers, not super strength. Mitchell was also killed off in the canon comic book in the second issue.

Garth of Izar is likely, or a new character.

Doesn't have to be a former member of Starfleet, just because he's wearing a Starfleet uniform. Look at Space Seed. Khan was wearing a Starfleet uniform after he was brought aboard.

Oooooo, I hadn't thunked of that. I hope it's Khan as the villain. Just wishful thinking on my part.

/What if Abrams just shot a trailer, loosed it upon fertile fanboy imagination, and is reading all our posts till one of us comes up with an idea that he just loves, and that's how the villain will be decided?