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Re: Article 50

Originally Posted by chrisd

I don't think anyone "took it to heart" I just assumed, like BIM did, that when you write something here you mean what it says ....... and you didn't really clarify BIM's post calling you out for what you posted

I DID - I said that just because I did not say SOME - that did not mean I meant ALL. But I am happy to have been able to clear up the misunderstanding - a misunderstanding that clearly struck someones nerve. But so easily done these days.

Re: Article 50

I think there is a confusion about the mindset of the EU. There is no 'they' the Juncker crowd are not a cohesive group and the member states have little or no influence over this 'they'.

Consequently this Brussels machine as opposed to the EU parliament and MEPs are determined to move towards harmonised and integrated systems that lock in the member states. The 'Brussels' view is that the UK must be punished for daring to upset the integration process and give any hint that this part of the 'they' have diluted powers. Any suffering incurred by the members states is of no concern since these 'domestic' issues will only cause problems for the individual governments/businesses/citizens, and slightly for the MEPs in the EU parliament who can jump up and down but are easily ignored.

Don't expect any cohesive or integrated logic or economic approach to the negotiations it is simply down to the representatives of the Brussels machine. These representatives are playing personal games which means grandstanding to their fellow Brussels peers.

Since 'they' do not give a monkey's fig about the interests of each member states interests you cannot expect them to care about the interests of maverick member who is daring to challenge their power base by leaving - in fact their aim is to cause the maximum public humiliation to frighten the 27 into submission and enhance their personal reputations.

Re: Article 50

I think there is a confusion about the mindset of the EU. There is no 'they' the Juncker crowd are not a cohesive group and the member states have little or no influence over this 'they'.

Consequently this Brussels machine as opposed to the EU parliament and MEPs are determined to move towards harmonised and integrated systems that lock in the member states. The 'Brussels' view is that the UK must be punished for daring to upset the integration process and give any hint that this part of the 'they' have diluted powers. Any suffering incurred by the members states is of no concern since these 'domestic' issues will only cause problems for the individual governments/businesses/citizens, and slightly for the MEPs in the EU parliament who can jump up and down but are easily ignored.

Don't expect any cohesive or integrated logic or economic approach to the negotiations it is simply down to the representatives of the Brussels machine. These representatives are playing personal games which means grandstanding to their fellow Brussels peers.

Since 'they' do not give a monkey's fig about the interests of each member states interests you cannot expect them to care about the interests of maverick member who is daring to challenge their power base by leaving - in fact their aim is to cause the maximum public humiliation to frighten the 27 into submission and enhance their personal reputations.

Re: Article 50

Originally Posted by chrisd

I cant really find much fault with this view

Lot of assumptions in that view about what EU are trying to do to UK when nothing has happended to reinforce that view.
UK has tried to move away from the initial topics of discussion - leaving bill, EU citizens in UK and Ireland towards trade because it has no answers on those 3 topics. Now throwing toys out of pram because they're not getting their own way and trying to spin it to us the public as EU being inflexible. Useless PM and Government stuttering from one crisis to the next.
See what happens later in the repeal bill parliament vote. 'Chaos' apparently according to ministers if MPs dont vote it through!! Chaos now? What would they call the whole thing to date?

Re: Article 50

Originally Posted by maxfli65

Lot of assumptions in that view about what EU are trying to do to UK when nothing has happended to reinforce that view.
UK has tried to move away from the initial topics of discussion - leaving bill, EU citizens in UK and Ireland towards trade because it has no answers on those 3 topics. Now throwing toys out of pram because they're not getting their own way and trying to spin it to us the public as EU being inflexible. Useless PM and Government stuttering from one crisis to the next.
See what happens later in the repeal bill parliament vote. 'Chaos' apparently according to ministers if MPs dont vote it through!! Chaos now? What would they call the whole thing to date?

I heard this morning that Davis is 'demanding' that the Leaving bill, EU citizens in UK and Ireland are parked. Especially the last of these three, for it appears we have no answer. And I do not think that there is an answer given the constraints in respect of leaving the SM and the CU we have self-imposed (nothing on the ballot paper about these things - they are self-imposed by the government)

Re: Article 50

And as the Great Debate on the Great Appeal Bill rages to a fro in the HoC - aye - all was great back in the day - in the 70s and before ... before the infamy and iniquitous act that conned us into the nest of vipers that is the Common Market...yes all was great.

Let's go back to these days when Britain was Great Britain - before globalisation; before the global economy; before smart phones; before mobile phones; before Google and Amazon; before the internet; before calculators; before Sinclair; before computers - when telephone operators, slide rules, calculating machines and paper and pen ruled the way of things.

Why not? What's changed - other than the Common Market - which by nefarious means and malignant manipulation has transmorgified into the Super State of EU. A useless, bureaucratic, corrupt lumbering monster - incapable of doing anything - other than coming up and delivering a meticulous, cunning, coordinated and controlled strategy to undermine the UK.

Ah well. It'll be alright - on the night of 29th March 2019.

563 days to go - well here's hoping Davis is a magician and pulls something spectacular out of the hat. Going to be some trick mind - with Moggie as PM; Bojo as FS and Leadsom as Chancellor - some trick...