Quote:Running (distance): few physical endeavours require the mental fortitude to push the body mile after mile, lungs burning, heart racing the same way that distance running does

The difference is if a runner loses, he didn't get a medal, but a professional fighter or body guard who trains just as hard loses more than that. A runner conquers only himself, but a fighter has to conquer both himself and another fighter.

Quote:As for cooking- that is an art. Learning the complex interelationship between foods, in taste, colour, and texture to create new and exciting experiences for the palate requires years of dedication, practice and knowledge

In the old days a martial artist in China has to be a herbalist, calligrapher and optionally a good cook. I managed only to master the last one.

First, it's fair to say that due to the lack of articles in Eastern ideographic languages, many scholars are now translating Do and Tao as 'Way', rather than 'the Way' - it is likely that the imposition of the definite article is a western invention due to our own philosophical traditions.

Secondly, I don't think much of far eastern philosophy. Indian and Buddhist philosophy is often very good, and tends to be grounded in mathematics and similar concerns to Western philosophy. Far Eastern philosophies simply don't attempt to argue or analyse propositions, epistemology, etc. and so I (and many other, more knowledgable) academics don't tend to think much of it. Indeed, the Chinese intellectuals themselves rejected Far Eastern philosphy as part of the May Fourth Movement, and the Meiji restoration was largely a move towards western enlightenment values against traditional philosophies. I think it's a shame really that it's called 'western' philosophy at all, it's just good philosophy and good debate, while Far Eastern philosophy is just wanting.

Third, a 'way' has to lead somewhere. If you don't know where you want to go, good luck finding a way to get there. I'd like to give an analogy for what I'm getting at: A man is blindfolded, flown out to the middle of the Sahara desert, and left alone. He is told to walk to Cairo. He starts walking off in a direction, only he obviously has no idea which one. Nevertheless, he believes he's made 10, or 20, steps towards Cairo.

My point (I hope) is simple: if you need to go to London, you use the M25. If you need to go to Birmingham, you use the M6. But you don't drive on either just for the sake of it. Work out what you want, and follow a 'path' which will allow you to achieve it.

Fourth, let's please make sure we all make sense. I'm tired of self-satisfied people turning round to me and saying rubbish like 'the way is not a way' (what is it then?! Self-referential statements simply don't work, get over it) or 'Don't have a philosophy for life' (Sounds like a philosophy to me!), or 'I don't need to answer criticisms of my views, because you can only understand the truth through practice'. It's not dogmatic to expect people to defend their views, and I don't challenge them because I'm a horrible person, or because I want to convert them, or because I get an ego-trip from it. I'm just hoping that someone will have a decent, well-argued case which will dissuade me from my views. And it happens, frequently, and many of the views I put forward are the result of others' influence.

Quote:The difference is if a runner loses, he didn't get a medal, but a professional fighter or body guard who trains just as hard loses more than that. A runner conquers only himself, but a fighter has to conquer both himself and another fighter.

Remind me why we call it a 'Marathon' again?

Martial arts today are a hobby, comparing yourself with military of the past or monks ordered to break the cycle of physical laziness through martial practice is merely what i spoke of- justifying or increasing the importance of something you care about to help make sense of why you are so devoted to it.If you truly want to be at one with the warriors of history, the forces are recruiting in a town near you as we speak.

Quote:As for cooking- that is an art. Learning the complex interelationship between foods, in taste, colour, and texture to create new and exciting experiences for the palate requires years of dedication, practice and knowledge

Quote:In the old days a martial artist in China has to be a herbalist, calligrapher and optionally a good cook. I managed only to master the last one.

My point was that the persuit of excellence in anything requires the same dedication, self sacrifice, study and dilligence as many like to make the singular property of MA's. Devoting yourself to anything with passion and perseverance will teach you much about yourself and life. MA is not the only 'way'

Tao(dou, tou)n. [[Chin tao, (the) way]] 1 in Chinese philosophy and religion, esp, in Taoism, the central or organizing principle of the universe, moral life, etc. 2 the governing creative principle of an art, craft, or other pro fond activity.

It seems that everybody but a few are using the second definition which would be associated with MA, cooking, or running. These activities do not provide one the foundation in having a "moral life" like the first definition states.

People who practice the "way" understand that MA just provides the physical body that is needed to be able to sit in mediation long periods of time. MA is not a religion or a philosophy so it fits the second meaning of the "way".

Monks did not study MA to learn religion but instead used MA to build the body for the physical practices used in Taoism/Buddhism.