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sigh...Bill Clinton, while certainly a philanderer & of very questionable moral character, is not a rapist. Unless I missed something big being dropped in the last few years, and not just more right wing kookism.

sigh...Bill Clinton, while certainly a philanderer & of very questionable moral character, is not a rapist. Unless I missed something big being dropped in the last few years, and not just more right wing kookism.

Gotta go back way further than that, bud, he was accused of sexual assault (in the 70s), it was swept under the rug much like with POTUS

That was an interesting sentencing. There's been some backlash about both the judge's phrasing and, of course, backlash to THAT backlash.

It rubbed me the wrong way to see a judge tell the person she's about to sentence that she wouldn't mind seeing him get sexually assaulted in prison. It rubbed me the wrong way that she literally said she "signed your death warrant" - no. Let other people (reporters, Twitter users, etc) make that analogy all they want, but you are the judge handing down a sentence, and you sentenced him to prison, not execution. Please don't belittle the severity of capital punishment.

HOWEVER, I also see Nassar as an utterly inhuman monster, and what minor gripes I have about the sentencing speech absolutely pale in comparison to the incomprehensible atrocities that he committed. THOSE actions are what have me riled up, and it's comforting to know that he'll never have the chance to abuse a child again. So while the above things irked me a little bit, I'm not in some genuine rage about them. Given that it was a sentencing after a plea and not something said during a trial, there's less concern over her appearing biased or having made up her mind about something already. She spoke to the fact that she was ready to go to trial with an open mind and accept that MAYBE there was a medical explanation for the things he did, but once he admitted otherwise, she told him off. For the most part, that doesn't bother me. Just the couple parts mentioned above that made me cringe a little.

But to repeat, and to be clear: if there is a hell, let Nassar burn in it.

(And slightly off-topic: hopefully this also opens peoples' eyes to the value of local news. This story finally broke because of the tireless work of one Indianapolis newspaper, not some sensationalist 24/7 cable "news" channel or even a respected national newspaper.)

It's the only thing you brought up, which speaks volumes about your priorities.

If you don't in fact internally go "but double standards" when seeing reporting about a politician being shitty and protecting an abuser, and instead actually think about the actions of the people in power, and feel empathy for the person who had to experience the harassment, then I'm sure you appreciate being given a heads up that your choice to comment instead on Hillary's gender making this less of a big deal in the public eye shows a big lack of empathy, so you can course correct in the future. You're welcome!

Your vision is so polarized and irrational. If someone doesnít react in the same way that you do, they must be wrong, theyíre part of the problem, their priorities are not right, they lack empathy, as if the victims were on ETS pressing F5 expecting to read more posts from absolute strangers supporting them. Whatever I post here doesnít affect the victims, it may affect whoever reads it, and then it becomes how it makes YOU feel... but this is not about you, is it?

Bringing up other angles is forbidden, otherwise some lunatic will start talking shit. I find it funny that you talk about me and my priorities as if you knew me, as if a couple posts on the internet could define me or summarize my position in the subject. Itís all black and white, no grey zone in between, you either do as we do and agree with us 100% or you are against us, our cause, and the victims.

And on top of it all, you are so enlightened and good that you tell me how to correct what Iím doing wrong so I can be right and be more like you, and I should be thankful for it. Of course there is no arrogance in that, it all comes from a place of caring and doing good deeds and making this world a better place.

That was an interesting sentencing. There's been some backlash about both the judge's phrasing and, of course, backlash to THAT backlash.

It rubbed me the wrong way to see a judge tell the person she's about to sentence that she wouldn't mind seeing him get sexually assaulted in prison. It rubbed me the wrong way that she literally said she "signed your death warrant" - no. Let other people (reporters, Twitter users, etc) make that analogy all they want, but you are the judge handing down a sentence, and you sentenced him to prison, not execution. Please don't belittle the severity of capital punishment.

HOWEVER, I also see Nassar as an utterly inhuman monster, and what minor gripes I have about the sentencing speech absolutely pale in comparison to the incomprehensible atrocities that he committed. THOSE actions are what have me riled up, and it's comforting to know that he'll never have the chance to abuse a child again. So while the above things irked me a little bit, I'm not in some genuine rage about them. Given that it was a sentencing after a plea and not something said during a trial, there's less concern over her appearing biased or having made up her mind about something already. She spoke to the fact that she was ready to go to trial with an open mind and accept that MAYBE there was a medical explanation for the things he did, but once he admitted otherwise, she told him off. For the most part, that doesn't bother me. Just the couple parts mentioned above that made me cringe a little.

But to repeat, and to be clear: if there is a hell, let Nassar burn in it.

(And slightly off-topic: hopefully this also opens peoples' eyes to the value of local news. This story finally broke because of the tireless work of one Indianapolis newspaper, not some sensationalist 24/7 cable "news" channel or even a respected national newspaper.)

Yes. All of this. I donít care about what she said about death warrant but I do have a problem with the continuation of sex abuse and rape as punishment. There is no justice in rape as punishment. It is sick and sad that people think it is justified because the person is an abuser. It just makes more abusers and feeds rape culture.

That was an interesting sentencing. There's been some backlash about both the judge's phrasing and, of course, backlash to THAT backlash.

It rubbed me the wrong way to see a judge tell the person she's about to sentence that she wouldn't mind seeing him get sexually assaulted in prison. It rubbed me the wrong way that she literally said she "signed your death warrant" - no. Let other people (reporters, Twitter users, etc) make that analogy all they want, but you are the judge handing down a sentence, and you sentenced him to prison, not execution. Please don't belittle the severity of capital punishment.

HOWEVER, I also see Nassar as an utterly inhuman monster, and what minor gripes I have about the sentencing speech absolutely pale in comparison to the incomprehensible atrocities that he committed. THOSE actions are what have me riled up, and it's comforting to know that he'll never have the chance to abuse a child again. So while the above things irked me a little bit, I'm not in some genuine rage about them. Given that it was a sentencing after a plea and not something said during a trial, there's less concern over her appearing biased or having made up her mind about something already. She spoke to the fact that she was ready to go to trial with an open mind and accept that MAYBE there was a medical explanation for the things he did, but once he admitted otherwise, she told him off. For the most part, that doesn't bother me. Just the couple parts mentioned above that made me cringe a little.

But to repeat, and to be clear: if there is a hell, let Nassar burn in it.

(And slightly off-topic: hopefully this also opens peoples' eyes to the value of local news. This story finally broke because of the tireless work of one Indianapolis newspaper, not some sensationalist 24/7 cable "news" channel or even a respected national newspaper.)

Yes, one victim went to that newspaper and that’s how something was FINALLY done.

When a search warrant was issued, the police found over 130,000 images of child porn on his computer hard drive in a trash can at the curb. His letter to the court (parts of which the judge read during sentencing) complained that it wasn’t even that much porn and he didn’t have it for very long so his Federal sentence wasn’t fair. The judge’s statement about a “death warrant” was for the victims. Nassar deserves NO sympathy. His letter complained that the victims were only doing victim impact statements for money and publicity. He got worse than a death sentence: life in prison. (Death row prisoners are segregated; the remaining prisoners are among the general prison population.)

The fact that an entire system fixated more on gold medals than on human beings, and covered up what he was doing, is even more awful.

This guy will die in prison, will never be around little girls ever again.

I watched the entire sentencing and I did not hear the judge say she wouldn’t mind Nassar getting sexually assaulted in prison.

What I DID see was a judge being very very careful as to procedure; she wants this to stick, she doesn’t want to give grounds for an appeal.

As far as what happens to these types of criminals in prison, it’s true that they don’t do very well. They are often killed in prison. That is not what the judge meant (she meant life, and death, in prison, not murder in prison); but when you commit these kinds of acts, that’s the reality of the prison system.

I watched the entire sentencing and I did not hear the judge say she wouldnít mind Nassar getting sexually assaulted in prison.

Sorry - so much news these days that I got my court dates and quotes crossed. Not from the sentencing date itself, but nevertheless from Judge Aquilina during the first day of the sentencing hearing:

At the very end of Tuesday's hearing, the judge imagined aloud what she'd like to do to Nassar if not for the Eighth Amendment to the US Constitution."Our Constitution does not allow for cruel and unusual punishment," she said. "If it did, I have to say, I might allow what he did to all of these beautiful souls -- these young women in their childhood -- I would allow someone or many people to do to him what he did to others."

Sorry - so much news these days that I got my court dates and quotes crossed. Not from the sentencing date itself, but nevertheless from Judge Aquilina during the first day of the sentencing hearing:

Well, but she DOES say that it’s not allowed per our Constitution.

And many of the survivors’ statements indicated that they wished he could receive this equal punishment.

The “eye for an eye” desire for equal suffering is from a visceral and emotional need for closure. It’s emotional, not logical, from deep and permanent pain and suffering.

I am in no position to tell them that they are wrong. Their healing process is their own. The judge was merely echoing (and expressing empathy with) their sentiments, while explaining that our Constitution prevents it.

The judge made it clear that all parties were and are aware that her main focus is on the victims, and the sentencing was no exception.

The judge, more importantly, called for a complete and immediate investigation into the system that allowed Nassar to not only molest young girls but also protected him and delivered the victims to him.

Your vision is so polarized and irrational. If someone doesn’t react in the same way that you do, they must be wrong, they’re part of the problem, their priorities are not right, they lack empathy, as if the victims were on ETS pressing F5 expecting to read more posts from absolute strangers supporting them. Whatever I post here doesn’t affect the victims, it may affect whoever reads it, and then it becomes how it makes YOU feel... but this is not about you, is it?

Bringing up other angles is forbidden, otherwise some lunatic will start talking shit. I find it funny that you talk about me and my priorities as if you knew me, as if a couple posts on the internet could define me or summarize my position in the subject. It’s all black and white, no grey zone in between, you either do as we do and agree with us 100% or you are against us, our cause, and the victims.

And on top of it all, you are so enlightened and good that you tell me how to correct what I’m doing wrong so I can be right and be more like you, and I should be thankful for it. Of course there is no arrogance in that, it all comes from a place of caring and doing good deeds and making this world a better place.

Damn it that horse is so fucking high.

The most interesting thing about this is that you don't meet people like the ETS crusaders in real life. I don't mean never ever, but when you go to work, visit your relatives and go out with your friends, you don't see this... this bottomless anger and frustration. There are always those few people with their weird view of the world (maybe we are those people, each to their own, right?), but I've talked with other girls/women and transgendered people (MtF if it matters) about stuff like this and they were all pretty fucking cool about everything. I've never met with this kind of antagonizing, rude attitude, even if we happened to disagree.

It is a very fascinating anomaly, where women's right or respect towards women reaches to such levels, where you actually ask yourself "can they even breath on their own?" - I mean, how unfit for adult life you have to be in order to be the protagonist girl in the Aziz story? Other than dumping newborn babies in the garbage (or freezer, or wherever) to die, I don't think anything can make certain women less respectable than these very radical views. Like, go up to any everyday Joe or Jane on the street and try to gather some pity for the woman who willingly blew an asshole. Other than people who throw around expressions like toxic masculinity and mansplaining, no one would care. There are women being physically and sexually abused even in relationships; there are women having to work twice as hard for recognition; there are women who can't even blink at party places without their drink getting compromised and the list goes on. Has any of you seen the video of that streamer throwing a live party? A bunch of guys were pretending to be drinking, guys pouring their drinks into a girls' cup and a guy getting completely unconscious after drinking a beverage which was meant to be drank by a girl. I heard a lot about roofies, but I never actually knew this shit is as serious as it is. Creepy is not a strong enough word to describe those scenes.

The best cure between two online arguments with such people is asking girls IRL about these topics. Trust me, when girls rip apart "that bitch" in the Aziz story, you postpone your plans of trying to gain entry into an asylum for your sanity. Also, watch the "I give you all the respect you deserve my Queen!!!!!!" guys being rejected by girls left and right. Trying to blow air into women's mouth so they can breathe more easily is not the definition of respect.

Btw no one hits F5 here in hopes of new people supporting them. There are the same people on each side, every time. It's actually rare to see so many people having the same exact opinion all the time. There is black and there is white; if you can't handle the fact that our grey opinion will always be considered - for a lack of a better word now - primitive for this group of people, you should save yourself the trouble and don't bother expressing it.

And on top of it all, you are so enlightened and good that you tell me how to correct what I’m doing wrong so I can be right and be more like you, and I should be thankful for it. Of course there is no arrogance in that, it all comes from a place of caring and doing good deeds and making this world a better place.

No, we can't. Behave like a civilized human being instead of some savage. It always amuses me when primitive behaviour can be excused with "but the victim is a piece of shit!" The extreme version of this twisted sentiment are the public executions on the streets in the Middle-East and Africa.

I bet the three girls were delighted that in top of all the hell they've been through, now the footage of their dad making a hissy fit and being constrained like an animal made head news. This is what pisses me off the most. If you want to make a goon out of yourself, be my guest. But this is just another kick in the stomach for the girls who were already rather be anywhere else than there.

I bet the three girls were delighted that in top of all the hell they've been through, now the footage of their dad making a hissy fit and being constrained like an animal made head news. This is what pisses me off the most. If you want to make a goon out of yourself, be my guest. But this is just another kick in the stomach for the girls who were already rather be anywhere else than there.

Ah yes, here's what needed. A guy telling us how women he's never met feel about something. Thank god we have an expert on how these young women feel about something that you've never experienced!

Look, I don't condone the father's actions. I understand where they come from. I've been in a similar, albeit less extreme, situation, and my blood was boiling. I understand that some men are incapable of showing restraint in these situations. There is a small, small part of me that looked at a still photo from that, saw Nassar cowering, and thought "I'm glad he looks like he's afraid, because now maybe he has a little understanding of how he made those young girls feel". But he was never in any actual danger, which yes, I believe is a good thing.

An eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind. Like I said earlier in this thread, I don't like continuing the cycle of violence. So I'm not going to say that what the father did was a good thing, because it wasn't. We have to be better than the criminals.

So yes, be upset that this guy tried to attack Nassar. But DO NOT put words in the mouths of these particular victims. DO NOT claim that you know how they feel. Their testimony that triggered the incident spoke to the fact that the entire family was "put through hell" by Nassar's actions. For all we know, they're grateful to know that their father loves them so much that his inhibitions abandoned him after hearing how someone attacked them. Maybe they're not. But that's up to them to decide - not you.

No, we can't. Behave like a civilized human being instead of some savage. It always amuses me when primitive behaviour can be excused with "but the victim is a piece of shit!" The extreme version of this twisted sentiment are the public executions on the streets in the Middle-East and Africa.

I bet the three girls were delighted that in top of all the hell they've been through, now the footage of their dad making a hissy fit and being constrained like an animal made head news. This is what pisses me off the most. If you want to make a goon out of yourself, be my guest. But this is just another kick in the stomach for the girls who were already rather be anywhere else than there.

Your ability to go from chauvinist to bootlicker in the span of two consecutive posts is kind of incredible.

Yes, I found it weird that I agree with
@Volband
in this thread for once. Iím sure watching guards jump on your loved one to subdue them is traumatic. Allegro mention how these things come from a place of emotion. I cannot blame the father for how he feels at all but I wish there was a way for him to work out his anger that didnít involve public humiliation. The sooner sentencing is over, the sooner the victims and their families can hopefully move on.

Ah yes, here's what needed. A guy telling us how women he's never met feel about something. Thank god we have an expert on how these young women feel about something that you've never experienced!

Look, I don't condone the father's actions. I understand where they come from. I've been in a similar, albeit less extreme, situation, and my blood was boiling. I understand that some men are incapable of showing restraint in these situations. There is a small, small part of me that looked at a still photo from that, saw Nassar cowering, and thought "I'm glad he looks like he's afraid, because now maybe he has a little understanding of how he made those young girls feel". But he was never in any actual danger, which yes, I believe is a good thing.

An eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind. Like I said earlier in this thread, I don't like continuing the cycle of violence. So I'm not going to say that what the father did was a good thing, because it wasn't. We have to be better than the criminals.

So yes, be upset that this guy tried to attack Nassar. But DO NOT put words in the mouths of these particular victims. DO NOT claim that you know how they feel. Their testimony that triggered the incident spoke to the fact that the entire family was "put through hell" by Nassar's actions. For all we know, they're grateful to know that their father loves them so much that his inhibitions abandoned him after hearing how someone attacked them. Maybe they're not. But that's up to them to decide - not you.

Fair enough, though not sure why you had to emphasize they are women. I don't think being embarassed or not had anything to do with the genders here.

One thing though, which makes it worse for me: it was not a heat of the moment action. If you come home to one of your loved ones, friends etc being assaulted, then sure enough, put a dent in the assaulter; I'm not advocating it, but I won't preach about savagery either. But this was in a courtroom and the build-up was sooo comical and seemed sooo predetermined from the father that I'm just shaking my head.

It is, however, really interesting to read the reactions over the internet. Reminds me of that Black Mirror episode, Enemy of the State. The first instance we get a green light to be as hateful as possible, we absolutely take that opportunity.

Originally Posted by Aladdinsanity

Your ability to go from chauvinist to bootlicker in the span of two consecutive posts is kind of incredible.

Thank you, but I believe it is merely a sympton of me being a human. You know, being capable of varied, even complex thoughts, while having an array of dirrefent views and values in the world.

Maybe the moment is still heated for this father tho? Itís not something you just get over. This moment is still going on for them. Theyíre still in a courtroom dealing with this. His actions could have been predetermined, but I have no doubt the fatherís emotions and anger are real.

For sure, I don't doubt that, but the whole scene with him losing his temper almost like at cue, when the judge did not give him his one minute looked like something straight out of WWE. His hatred is no doubt real and more than understandable, but his action was absolutely pointless, helped no one, and to top it all off, looked way too theatrical.

And during this whole ordeal, the fact that Nassan could do what he did for decades goes absolutely silent. Even if you pulled a gun on him and shoot his brains out, you'd still only terminate the result, and not the reason he could do what he did for as long as he did. It's like with Weinstein; they hang him as high as possible, so the rest of his affiliates can lurk in the shadows longer.