stubby wrote:I'd make animal bites equivalent to the nearest-size CC weapon, minus the Parry option. A dog bite would be a Hand Weapon; a croc bite would be a Heavy Weapon.

That's why I made the doggy bite Range CC Damage 1d6. I made the bite Use 3 instead of Use 2 coz I considered it more elegant than making the doggy's skill 1d6-1, but it has more or less the same effect.

IVhorseman wrote:Eh, you probably don't need to make that concession. If a dog tries to bite something, it usually happens.

Exactly the failure rate for animals trying to bite you when in range is even far below 1/6 in real life. Same thing with trying to hit somebody with a club or stab them, pretty fucking easy. So just keep it simple use:2 dmg:1d6 range:CC Because this shit works:

stubby wrote:I'd make animal bites equivalent to the nearest-size CC weapon, minus the Parry option. A dog bite would be a Hand Weapon; a croc bite would be a Heavy Weapon.

Oh wow, I was going to say a bunch of stuff about the Grab rules and then I realized I never uploaded them.

Okay, imagine that I've already uploaded the current version of chapter 5 where I tell you all about Grabs. Regular CC attacks can fail, but Grabs always succeed (except on a successful Bail or something). And once you're Grabbed, all further CC Attacks and Counterattacks between you and the Grabber are Automatic Hits, along with hefty Skill and Move penalties for both Grabber and Grabee, until something ends the Grab.

What I'm thinking is, animals that bite aren't usually biting as melee attacks - it's more often the initial bite to lock on, and then all the damage comes from tearing at the victim while still locked on somehow. Dogs shake their prey all around, cults try to sever an artery, crocs roll their prey to disorient and drown, etc. So a bite would be a special case where you could use the weapon to Grab on the first turn, and then use the weapon to Attack on subsequent turns at the same time you're using it to Grab.

And for combat dogs in particular, they're mostly used to clamp jaws on targets and incapacitate them so that their human buddies can finish them off, more often than having the dogs try to kill targets by themselves. So making them Grab-focused works pretty well, I think.

stubby wrote:Okay, imagine that I've already uploaded the current version of chapter 5 where I tell you all about Grabs. Regular CC attacks can fail, but Grabs always succeed (except on a successful Bail or something). And once you're Grabbed, all further CC Attacks and Counterattacks between you and the Grabber are Automatic Hits, along with hefty Skill and Move penalties for both Grabber and Grabee, until something ends the Grab.

What about tools like this?

The same principles of larger weapons being harder to use apply with these; it's harder to grab something with a long grabbing tool than with bare hands. Would these be auto-hits too?

I'm not just asking to be difficult. I actually have a unit for my death cult guys that picks up corpses with a two-handed grabbing tool and collects them in a cart for sacrifices. It wouldn't be a problem with the corpses, because he's pretty much just picking up trash at that point. My problem is that since he plays such an important role in the army (summoning a demon), he would inevitably get attacked. The grabbing tool is his only weapon, so how would I deal with this?

Yes, I could always fudge. I just want to know if bigger grabbing tools are going to be implemented into the rules.

Grabbing with your own natural grabbers (a minifig's hand, a dog's mouth, an octopus's tentacles) is automatic. Grabbing with a weapon (whips being the most common example) requires a successful hit with the weapon, at the usual Use.