Seeker wrote:Thx for responses.I wasn't sure about the EOT parameters, where are they posted? Or should I follow Tims suggestions for all?I'll try shorter steep times.BTW, I don't think my head got 'blown off' - I've experienced that with stronger young pu's, not this one. Essentially, the tarry character that I have found in this and virtually all 'vibrant' young pu's isn't a positive to my palate, and it is evident from the first whiff. I imagine that this and other intense characteristics are elements that would soften over many years of aging to yield beautiful complexity.Re: the leaf size - I beg pardon for my lack of photographic skill, the dry leaf shot is on uber-macro and uber close up. The others are not as close to lens. And the leaves I chose for the wet leaf detail were representative of the avg size I think. Truth be told, I don't know what 'correct' leaf size looks like or measures in at - I'm just going on my recent experience of having brought one of my young binge in for assessment and finding out the leaves were too small, and they were just a little bit smaller than these.Also, I believe buds and tips add character, however, aging 15 years they will be gone/disintegrated, so I imagine there should be only a small % of them in the mix?I hope it's alright that I'm saying all this, and that I'm not offending anyone - my purpose is to share my honest thoughts, impressions, and experience and learning and see what responses come of it so that I might continue to learn.I am an admitted novice, and I believe what I'm being taught is legit (altho deeply grounded in traditional chine tea values).Cheers.

Oh, and Finally - I have a question for Tim and EOT - were you told the leaves were from old trees or did you see in person? This kind of 'selling' occurs a lot in the tea world, or so I've read as well as been told.BTW - i'm taught buds/tips are milder in character and will be drinkable sooner which goes to the movement popular these days out of Yunnan to be able to sell tea now (which I imagine is an economic must for survival; having to age every "vintage" for 15 years would be extremely costly--in all ways to all people on all sides of this).This makes sense to me, does it to you?

Thanks Tim and Chip!Hey Tim - cool link, tho I am unable to read it.Also, and please forgive, I mean absolutely no disrespect - but a website can write anything they want. How is any assertion proved/validated? And it is part of the puerh historical record that we know this has happened a lot (the making of false statements, counterfieting, etc, and with puerh especially -- there's potentially lots of money involved, potential profit to be precise).I'm going in for more eavesdropping on staff puerh training tomorrow - if I can, I'll share the link with Winnie (owner) and see what she says (if it's chinese she'll be able to read it).I'm imaging she will be very suspicious of, oh, let's call it - 'salesmanship' or 'false claims' (rampant in the puerh world since the boom of the 90's) - I'm just imagining that she will say there's no way that tea could exist as stated - if made completely of buds/tips, and from late 1700's it would have disintegrated long ago due to the aging activity of the organisms responsible for puerhs uniqueness. And such an argument would make great sense to me.

Seeker wrote:Thanks Tim and Chip!Hey Tim - cool link, tho I am unable to read it.Also, and please forgive, I mean absolutely no disrespect - but a website can write anything they want. How is any assertion proved/validated? And it is part of the puerh historical record that we know this has happened a lot (the making of false statements, counterfieting, etc, and with puerh especially -- there's potentially lots of money involved, potential profit to be precise).I'm going in for more eavesdropping on staff puerh training tomorrow - if I can, I'll share the link with Winnie (owner) and see what she says (if it's chinese she'll be able to read it).I'm imaging she will be very suspicious of, oh, let's call it - 'salesmanship' or 'false claims' (rampant in the puerh world since the boom of the 90's) - I'm just imagining that she will say there's no way that tea could exist as stated - if made completely of buds/tips, and from late 1700's it would have disintegrated long ago due to the aging activity of the organisms responsible for puerhs uniqueness. And such an argument would make great sense to me.

Seeker ~ Thanks and I do agree its a cool non-commercial tea link. The 2 images were provided by the national museum, I think it was 'first' (not 100% sure) published in a puerh history book back in the early 90s. Enjoy the Journey

Seeker wrote:Also, I believe buds and tips add character, however, aging 15 years they will be gone/disintegrated, so I imagine there should be only a small % of them in the mix?I hope it's alright that I'm saying all this, and that I'm not offending anyone - my purpose is to share my honest thoughts, impressions, and experience and learning and see what responses come of it so that I might continue to learn.

Add- oh, and Finally - I have a question for Tim and EOT - were you told the leaves were from old trees or did you see in person? This kind of 'selling' occurs a lot in the tea world, or so I've read as well as been told.BTW - i'm taught buds/tips are milder in character and will be drinkable sooner which goes to the movement popular these days out of Yunnan to be able to sell tea now (which I imagine is an economic must for survival; having to age every "vintage" for 15 years would be extremely costly--in all ways to all people on all sides of this).This makes sense to me, does it to you?

Thanks for your questions. Please don't worry at all about offending anyone - it's only through this type of questioning that we all learn.

With the leaf size... I think it's important to take into account the climatic conditions. It's not so easy to look at 2 different puerhs from different places and different years and extrapolate conclusions. For instance, this year most of Yunnan experienced the worst drought in 100 years. As a result the leaves were much smaller than normal. Below is a picture I took in Banpen (the tree is about 400 years old)

Leaf size isn't a great way to try to tell the difference between old trees and plantation bushes. Both can have small or large leaves. A better way comes from experience in drinking both types of tea. Pay attention to how the flavour sits in the mouth. Plantation bushes will often have an unpleasant bitterness/astringency that sits towards the front of the mouth with little flavour at the back. Older trees will have more 'throat feeling' - the flavour will coat the back of the mouth and throat. The bitterness can vary according to region/tree type/leaf type etc, but will be more of a pleasant bitterness/strength rather than a biting bitterness. The bitterness should also change in the mouth, leaving a long sweet aftertaste and clean, smooth, pure feeling in the mouth.

Oh... to answer your other question, I did see these trees myself & watched the processing

Had a lovely session with the Yiwu. Beginning with a hint of smoke and that thick sweet tobacco & plum flavour I love in Yiwu of this age. The mouthfeel was excellent, coating the mouth and throat and the qi was lovely, rising slowly and leaving me feeling warm and refreshed.

The storage has been good for this tea and it seems to be ageing nicely. I'd love to taste this in 10-15 years.

Seeker wrote:Add- oh, and Finally - I have a question for Tim and EOT - were you told the leaves were from old trees or did you see in person? This kind of 'selling' occurs a lot in the tea world, or so I've read as well as been told.

Seeker ~ As Nada pointed out, These are all private commissioned bengs. I was and so as Nada, were physically there to oversee the harvest/production. The Yiwu cakes was my third commissioned private label. We met the farmers, the village elders, hugged their trees we selected, had meals with the tea master and pickers, feed their puppies around the village, and share good tea with them. If I have to a praise them from a vendor's point: " Its filled with love! So please be gentle with them" Enjoy ~ T

Wow, Thanks Tim and Nada!I sit here after reading your responses, and I must admit to feeling (in addition to gratitude) sort of flumoxed.I'm aware that I just don't have the experience to gauge young sheng puerh.I've yet to taste one that I would even consider drinking regularly - I seem to prefer, so far, only the aged puerhs that are soft and rich.Hopefully my experience will grow, but I think it will take many years - to connect the taste of a young sheng with the qualities 15 years later (or more) - to actually determine true quality - to be able to see, taste, experience how the tea ages. Gonna take some time.Hmmm - there's a problem tho - the aging. I'd need several bings (which I have, like 10 I think) then proper aging (which I don't have where I live - not enough humidity, only around 45%), good tasting notes on the young bings, then 15 or so years, then taste again, gauge the aged tea for myself, read the original notes, and voila. But then oops, if I love it, I can't get that tea anymore. Oh well. The complexities, the mysteries, the challenges of puerh tea.Has anyone here had such expeience? Tasting a young puerh, then tasting the same puerh 15-20 or even 30years later and comparing notes?(I think notes'd be important - cause in 15-20 years, I believe I'd forget that original taste?)Cheers.

Tim - thanks for that pic of your hand in front of the leaves. There's a leaf to the right of your hand that looks kind of big-ish. Darker green. The lighter, younger leaves look a little farther away - hard to tell size.Do the leaves shrink much in the processing to tea? I imagine they probably do - can you say how much?Cheers.This is fun.

The large darker leaves are growth from previous years. Only the fresh green leaves - (preferably the bud and first 2 leaves) - are picked. The larger leaves turn yellow when dried and give a sweet taste, lacking in complexity and strength.

I haven't noticed the shrinking of the leaves. Of course they do when dried, but when brewed I'd imagine that they swell again to their original size.

The buds in the photo aren't that far away - they were pretty small this year.

I had some yesterday and am enjoying it again today. Brewing conditions at work are crude, but it is a tribute to the tea that I am getting very enjoyable infusions from it.

The scent is fresh and woody with a hit of tobacco and the taste of the first few infusions follows suit. Smooth and slightly bitter, and drying on the finish. Some smoke, but pleasing to my tastes. Good astringency balance with a lingering sweet, cooling aftertaste. A real throaty feel as well. Camphor becomes more pronounced after a few infusions and the qi is a trickle up and down my spine, making me relaxed yet alert. Further cups bring flavors/scents of banana, citrus and bamboo, and later I detect mineral, squash, string bean and unidentifiable spice flavors. All in all, a young sheng I can drink happily right now. After 8 infusions the leaves still appear to have more to give.

Broth color remained a pale straw yellow throughout the session(s). Below are shots of the dry and spent leaves taken in one photo and then split. The leaf quality seems good to my uneducated senses. If all of the samples are this good, I can't wait to try them!

Just to be clear - does this mean I should return the water to boiling before each resteep? I have a tea reference book (which of course could be wrong!) which defines fish-eye boil as 180 to 200 degrees.