In the few days since ex–Stanford swimmer Brock Turner was given a six-month jail sentence for sexually assaulting an unconscious woman, much of the internet’s chatter has converged on a heart-wrenching, beautifully argued, deeply felt statement the woman read to him in court. It’s a devastating account of the survivor’s revictimization during her trial, a powerful indictment of the lighter sentences imposed on white, wealthy sex criminals, and a haunting depiction of how rape culture exerts its influence on college campuses and in courts of law. The victim provided her statement to BuzzFeed News; the page been viewed more than 4 million times since Friday afternoon.

Now, the internet has an opposing letter to read: a defense of Turner reportedly written by his father, Dan. Posted early Sunday morning by Michele Dauber, a Stanford law professor and sociologist who led the school’s revision of its sexual assault policies in recent years, the letter appears to have been written prior to Brock’s sentencing to advocate for probation only, in lieu of any jail time.

So, just to be clear, this fuckbag rapes an unconscious woman, drags her through a year of court and litigation despite there being clear, incontrovertible evidence of him doing so (and as a result forcing his victim to relive the night over and over again, and have her worth as a human constantly rejected by the shitbag lawyer using the same tactics against rape victims one would expect we would have done something about by now), and faces six months of jail time.

For RAPE.

SIX MONTHS!

In a county jail!

If that's not enough of a slap in the fucking face, his father then proceeded to pen this disgusting little letter:

Notice how he never says "rape" or mentions the victim. Notice how he talks, not about rape, but about "20 minutes of action", quite possibly the most disgusting euphemism I've seen this year. Notice how he acts like the guilt he faces is punishment enough - never mind that, to this day, his rapist son has not admitted or even acknowledged what he did and has never apologized to his victim.

Everything about this situation is beyond disgusting. I recommend everyone read the victim's letter.

Does anyone think, even for a minute, that if this kid hadn't been privileged or white, he would have gotten off with 6 months? Maybe so - after all, this 6 months still makes this one of the most heavily prosecuted rape cases, in the top 3% or so, because most rape cases never get prosecuted.

The judge seems to think he's "not a threat to others". I'd say the fact that he has never even admitted that he did anything wrong, blames the alcohol (rather than taking any responsibility for his crimes), and refuses to acknowledge his victim is evidence enough that he hasn't figured that out, and I fear we'll see this little bastard in the headlines again in a few years.

What a gigantic clusterfuck. Rape culture in action, ladies and gentlemen.

Not just rape culture, OP, but entitled privilege, that expects and encourages lenient treatment based on "what a fine young man he is otherwise" and "he's not likely to try to rape anyone else", and "the mere record already ruins his prospects". What deterrent is there then?

Like mentioned elsewhere if instead he were from some lower-social-standing demographic, he'd be headed up the river for years.

As somebody pointed out in the other thread on this topic, Dan Turner is trying to keep his son out of prison. While his methods are contemptible and he's apparently raised a terrible son, I can't pit somebody for trying to protect their child.

Judge Aaron Persky, on the other hand, fully deserves this pitting. He completely failed to do his job as an impartial arbitrator seeking justice.

As somebody pointed out in the other thread on this topic, Dan Turner is trying to keep his son out of prison. While his methods are contemptible and he's apparently raised a terrible son, I can't pit somebody for trying to protect their child.

Judge Aaron Persky, on the other hand, fully deserves this pitting. He completely failed to do his job as an impartial arbitrator seeking justice.

He had his choice of any set of words in the English language to protect his son. He chose "20 minutes of action."

I was about to compose a sample statement to show how simple it is to write a tasteful statement that acknowledges the horror of the crime and places responsibility while pleading for leniency. But I don't need to do take- you can imagine it. It's not that hard to say something that isn't reprehensible.

As somebody pointed out in the other thread on this topic, Dan Turner is trying to keep his son out of prison. While his methods are contemptible and he's apparently raised a terrible son, I can't pit somebody for trying to protect their child.

Let's just disabuse this bullshit right now: fuck that. He's not trying to "protect" his son, he's trying to help his son escape the consequences of his actions. He's a fucking douchebag who's unable to place "right & wrong" above "family" and I say that being a blood relation is no excuse for ignoring criminal "action"s. If his son had murdered a bus full of nuns, would you still give his father a pass? At some point, a person's actions are so reprehensible that any ties of blood or friendship should not matter when assessing a person's guilt and/or punishment.

As somebody pointed out in the other thread on this topic, ...........

As long as we're going there.....

I made a joke in that other thread, and someone suggested I should be ashamed of myself. Since I saw a Mod note that I should basically "Shut the Fuck Up" in that thread, I'll defend myself here, in The Pit.

First of all, the joke was not about rape, and certainly not at the expense of the victim. That would be fucked up and in poor taste.

If you don't get the joke, sorry, sucks to be you. I'm not going to explain it. But I'd be willing to bet if Louis C. K. made the joke during a monologue on SNL, people would he howling with laughter.

Second, if you think some topics are "off the table" for joking about, again, sucks to be you. You need to step back and stop taking life and yourself so fucking seriously.

Rape is horrible. To make light of victims of rape would be horrible. But there sure are an awful lot of jokes being told about Cosby right now. See the difference?

Let's just disabuse this bullshit right now: fuck that. He's not trying to "protect" his son, he's trying to help his son escape the consequences of his actions. He's a fucking douchebag who's unable to place "right & wrong" above "family" and I say that being a blood relation is no excuse for ignoring criminal "action"s. If his son had murdered a bus full of nuns, would you still give his father a pass? At some point, a person's actions are so reprehensible that any ties of blood or friendship should not matter when assessing a person's guilt and/or punishment.

No one is above the law, not even those we love.

The problem here isn't with a parent trying to spare his son the consequences of his actions or even the son trying to get away with rape. That is not really surprising. What is offensive is a judge that goes along with it and convicts an adult to 6 months in jail because the judge doesn't think this young white Stanford boy is really a risk.

Judges let white defendants off like this much more frequently than they let off minority defendants. That's a problem.

it seems to me that many men's thinking is that rape isn't a big deal, it is basically sex and that women should get all that upset about lack of consent. Cause it is just sex. Since they (these men) all want to have sex everything is viewed through that lens.

women "owe" sex if a guy buys her dinner or a drink. Or apparently if she is breathing. Women owe sex so if a man "takes" it is just what he is owed. a woman flirts with a man, she owes him sex, Apparently, if you just talk to some men, it is an indication you want sex with him. So what is the bid deal? Why ruin someone from doing really important stuff like sports over sex. Like that politician once said, just lean back and enjoy it.

Let's just disabuse this bullshit right now: fuck that. He's not trying to "protect" his son, he's trying to help his son escape the consequences of his actions. He's a fucking douchebag who's unable to place "right & wrong" above "family" and I say that being a blood relation is no excuse for ignoring criminal "action"s. If his son had murdered a bus full of nuns, would you still give his father a pass? At some point, a person's actions are so reprehensible that any ties of blood or friendship should not matter when assessing a person's guilt and/or punishment.

No one is above the law, not even those we love.

Luckily, there are millions of people who are more than happy to pile on the kid. And again, not saying it's undeserved. He did a terrible thing. But if one person is going to stand on his side, it might as well be his dad.

it seems to me that many men's thinking is that rape isn't a big deal, it is basically sex and that women should get all that upset about lack of consent. Cause it is just sex. Since they (these men) all want to have sex everything is viewed through that lens.

I think it's the reverse path, but ending up in the same place. I think the thinking is that rape is a terrible thing and a terribly big deal; it's just that this particular case doesn't seem as terribly big of a deal as their platonic ideal of what rape is -- therefore it isn't rape. And since they think rape is a terrible terrible thing, anybody who calls this -- which isn't rape, because they don't think it's terrible enough -- rape is trivializing rape and inventing an epidemic and making totally bigoted claims like "men don't care about rape."

Notice how he never says "rape" or mentions the victim. Notice how he talks, not about rape, but about "20 minutes of action", quite possibly the most disgusting euphemism I've seen this year.

I wonder then, would the dad have thought a year in jail would be appropriate if it was a 40 minute rape? More than a year in prison if it lasted an hour? Do you get probation with premature ejaculation?

Luckily, there are millions of people who are more than happy to pile on the kid. And again, not saying it's undeserved. He did a terrible thing. But if one person is going to stand on his side, it might as well be his dad.

You can stand by your kid's side in a lot of ways that don't involve referring to rape as "action" or going out of your way to deny that pulling an unconscious woman's legs apart and shoving your fingers in to bruise and tear her vagina is in any way "violent".

He didn't have to minimize the victim's trauma to stand up for his kid.

Luckily, there are millions of people who are more than happy to pile on the kid. And again, not saying it's undeserved. He did a terrible thing. But if one person is going to stand on his side, it might as well be his dad.

Well, OK. But here:

"Although we will always love and stand with him, his mother and I, and everyone who knows Brock, are horrified by the things he has done. From the bottom of our hearts, we join Brock in offering to the victim an apology that we know barely begins to salve the damage done. We have urged Brock to come out of this experience a changed and better man, one who can help ameliorate the scourge of sexual violence in whatever ways he can. He and we will accept the consequences of his actions, whatever they may be. We ask only that you consider his sincere and deep repentance, his openly stated desire to improve, and his long history of responsible behavior, as you consider what those consequences should be."

Luckily, there are millions of people who are more than happy to pile on the kid. And again, not saying it's undeserved. He did a terrible thing. But if one person is going to stand on his side, it might as well be his dad.

Who showed no ability to accept consequences for a heinous action or empathy for the victim, like his son. Which is really the crux of the Pitting.

Luckily, there are millions of people who are more than happy to pile on the kid. And again, not saying it's undeserved. He did a terrible thing. But if one person is going to stand on his side, it might as well be his dad.

Yes, that is what good parents do. Defend their children from harm.
But good parents also raise their children to not be callous arseholes, and admonish their children when they do something wrong.

The father’s letter consists mostly of irrelevant anecdotes, praising his son, and downplaying his crime, while not even acknowledging the existence of the victim. The language he uses suggests that the father himself does not even consider that his son is in the wrong. “Just 20 minutes of action. Mistakes were made. Please don’t be so cruel to my poor suffering son. He’s such a great kid.”

The victim’s letter, by contrast, is a heart-wrenching and vivid narration of the details of the crime and the horrible fallout that she has suffered over a year because of this monster.

Son is a piece of shit.
Dad is an horrible person.
Judge is ass.
Defense lawyer is a scumbag.

World is a horrible place.

But the victim, the survivor, is a brave soul. And I have a thankful heart for her bravery. May she have a truly wonderful life surrounded by wonderful people.

Let's be fair here - the judge is, to our knowledge, not a convicted rapist. He's just bad at his job in a disgusting way.

The judge is no less a rapist that the kid. He is someone a person can turn to, to get justice; the remedy of last resort when a person's been wronged. And he's taken that responsibility and used it to torture the victim beyond the initial rape . . . and this time she didn't have the "blessing" of being unconscious.

And when will the press switch from "Stanford student and swimmer...", to "The accused rapist..."?

Please. Convicted rapist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Mace

This seems like a classic case of plea bargaining to me. Aren't the vast majority of all cases settled on a plea bargain? Not much consolation to the victim, but that's the system we live in.

I'd say once you force your victim to relive her rape over the course of an entire year because you think the fact that she has memory loss means you could get away with it, then lose the court case anyways, you lose the right to a plea bargain. And the right to be able to eat solid food again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkis is Willin'

The dad's letter starts off with "he is truly sorry for what occurred that night and for all the pain and suffering...he has expressed true remorse for his actions on that night."

This letter was delivered after the guilty verdict, so consequences were unavoidable. The purpose was to ask for leniency in his sentencing. And it apparently worked.

It's also a damn dirty lie. Brock at no point addressed this remorse to the one person he should have addressed it to - the victim. He never gave any indication that he was sorry for what he did, or that he accepted responsibility.

This judge should be fucking disbarred. This is a travesty.

Oh yeah, on a side note: a friend of mine on facebook responded to this with, "If there actually was a rape culture, he wouldn't have seen jail time". Or should I say former friend, because I am just absolutely sick of that sniveling bullshit. You want rape culture? Here's your fucking rape culture. A culture wherein the true victim is the rapist, except they aren't really a rapist, because they're such a nice guy and they were all drunk, and the real villain here is political correctness.

Son is a piece of shit.
Dad is an horrible person.
Judge is ass.
Defense lawyer is a scumbag.

#1, #2, and #3 - sure.

But the system doesn't work without defense attorneys, and even pieces of shit deserve good ones (which is an indictment of the public defender process in most areas - even the good ones are buried under overwork).

He had his choice of any set of words in the English language to protect his son. He chose "20 minutes of action."

I was about to compose a sample statement to show how simple it is to write a tasteful statement that acknowledges the horror of the crime and places responsibility while pleading for leniency. But I don't need to do take- you can imagine it. It's not that hard to say something that isn't reprehensible.

I said his methods were contemptible. But I don't blame a parent for saying contemptible things in defense of their child. I'm not a parent but if I was I'd be willing to slander, defame, and lie about somebody if it kept my kid out of prison.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo

Let's just disabuse this bullshit right now: fuck that. He's not trying to "protect" his son, he's trying to help his son escape the consequences of his actions. He's a fucking douchebag who's unable to place "right & wrong" above "family" and I say that being a blood relation is no excuse for ignoring criminal "action"s. If his son had murdered a bus full of nuns, would you still give his father a pass? At some point, a person's actions are so reprehensible that any ties of blood or friendship should not matter when assessing a person's guilt and/or punishment.

No one is above the law, not even those we love.

I expect a normal parent to place their love for their child above their interest in objective justice. I expect a parent to be biased towards their child.

Dan Turner wants to save his son from prison. And I'm sure Emily Doe's father wants to beat Brock Turner to death with a baseball bat. That's why our legal system keeps family members out of the loop. A parent's bias in favor of their child shouldn't be a factor in our legal system. The legal system is supposed to be impartial.

Persky went to law school at UC Berkeley's prestigious Boalt Hall School of Law after graduating Phi Beta Kappa from Stanford University, where he was captain of the lacrosse team, with a bachelor's degree in international relations and a master's in international policy studies.

From here.
So, former Stanford athlete feels pity for current Stanford athlete.

And here, from the father's letter, we find that boohoo, the little kid has lost his appetite.

Quote:

As it stands now, Brock's life has been deeply altered forever by the events of Jan 17th and 18th. He will never be his happy go lucky self with that easy going personality and welcoming smile. His every waking minute is consumed with worry, anxiety, fear, and depression. You can see this in his face, the way he walks, his weakened voice, his lack of appetite. Brock always enjoyed certain types of food and is a very good cook himself. I was always excited to buy him a big ribeye steak to grill or to get his favorite snack for him. I had to make sure to hide some of my favorite pretzels or chips because I knew they wouldn't be around long after Brock walked in from a long swim practice. Now he barely consumes any food and eats only to exist.

I said his methods were contemptible. But I don't blame a parent for saying contemptible things in defense of their child. I'm not a parent but if I was I'd be willing to slander, defame, and lie about somebody if it kept my kid out of prison.

If you did that, I'd call you a piece of shit, too. You're saying that if you knew your child had murdered someone, you'd do whatever it took to try and keep your kid out of prison, EVEN THO YOU KNOW HE DID IT??? What the fuck kind of psychopath would do that? Oh right, people like Dan Turner.

You would actively try and aid your child in avoiding responsibility and consequences for their actions, even when their actions irreparably harm another?

That's completely psycho in my opinion.

I would expect a parent to want to see their child suffer as little as possible, but when a person has done wrong, I prefer for people to admit it and accept the consequences, no matter the relation. Yes, I have faced this kind of situation and in every case I have not defended the piece of shit (I usually cut them out of my life), so yes, I'm talking from personal experience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Nemo

I expect a normal parent to place their love for their child above their interest in objective justice.

I don't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Nemo

I expect a parent to be biased towards their child.

I do too, but I don't expect them to ignore facts and try and cause more pain and suffering for the innocent person that their precious child has already harmed. How far would you, Little Nemo, really be willing to go? Would you hide the body? Would you fabricate an alibi? From your post, it certainly seems that you would do anything to save your child, no matter his crime and frankly, that's an indefensible position to take, IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Nemo

Dan Turner wants to save his son from prison. And I'm sure Emily Doe's father wants to beat Brock Turner to death with a baseball bat. That's why our legal system keeps family members out of the loop. A parent's bias in favor of their child shouldn't be a factor in our legal system. The legal system is supposed to be impartial.

But the parent's bias DID have a place in this case, and it resulted in what many (hopefully it's actually "most") people consider a travesty.

Since you have said you would do the same things Dan Turner did, and more, to defend your child, I'm curious to know: do you think this was justice served or a travesty?

- Brock Turner shouldn't be referred to as a rapist but rather as a swim star - despite the fact that he committed rape.
- Never mind the evidence or the jury verdict, this person is too kind and nice to ever do something like that
- It's okay because he was drunk and "not in control"
- Just because he raped someone doesn't mean he should have to suffer any kind of consequences for it
- She was unconscious, therefore there's no way she could know she didn't give consent (WHAT?!)
- A rape is just things "getting out of hand"
- Rape is not always because of rapists (WHAT?!?)
- Political Correctness is why we classify simple things such as men getting drunk and fucking women without their consent as rape

You know what makes me happy about this whole thing? The one little thing that is good? That if anybody in the future Googles this guy or the judge, this whole case will be all over the first page of results. They fucking deserve that at the least.

But the system doesn't work without defense attorneys, and even pieces of shit deserve good ones (which is an indictment of the public defender process in most areas - even the good ones are buried under overwork).

That's fair. It is the defense attorney's job to put their best foot forwards - it is the judge's job to decide their best isn't good enough, and that this asshole will be spending the next decade in prison.

- Brock Turner shouldn't be referred to as a rapist but rather as a swim star - despite the fact that he committed rape.
- Never mind the evidence or the jury verdict, this person is too kind and nice to ever do something like that
- It's okay because he was drunk and "not in control"
- Just because he raped someone doesn't mean he should have to suffer any kind of consequences for it
- She was unconscious, therefore there's no way she could know she didn't give consent (WHAT?!)
- A rape is just things "getting out of hand"
- Rape is not always because of rapists (WHAT?!?)
- Political Correctness is why we classify simple things such as men getting drunk and fucking women without their consent as rape

I'm not a parent but if I was I'd be willing to slander, defame, and lie about somebody if it kept my kid out of prison.

Even if I thought my kid was innocent I wouldn't do this. Because I know it would make me and them come out looking terrible and seal in many people's minds that the apple didn't fall that far.

I don't think that crap letter was the thing which decided the sentence anyway. If it was that easy to influence a judge, no one would ever do hard time. All the father accomplished was destroying his image along with his son's. That his son got off lightly only adds insult to the injury caused by that letter.

As somebody pointed out in the other thread on this topic, Dan Turner is trying to keep his son out of prison. While his methods are contemptible and he's apparently raised a terrible son, I can't pit somebody for trying to protect their child.

I am perfectly happy to pit someone for trying to protect a rapist from the consequences of their actions, regardless of any blood ties. The father is a scumbag and if it were up to me would get prison time for the offensiveness of his defense of his son. In protecting his child, he's attacking someone else's child. That's just evil.

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