Originally posted by Jaime Navarro: The Sqd Ldrs are not a part of the Bttalion per se they fall under the Dept of Combat Medical Training (DCMT) So they do't do anything with the Soldiers except teach.

You're getting the shaft- sorry to hear!!

Most other AITs now have the instructors assigned to the same Companies the PVTs are in...I did Instructor/Squad Leader for a year and was at work from 0445 to about 1815 everyday, with 50min for lunch. The PSG was assigned nights for a while so I was "assistant PSG". We also did CQ at the Barracks for 12 hours on the weekend every 3rd week or so. (In addition to 24hr BDE Staff Duty every 3-4months)

Powermeter.. I have been an AIT PLT SGT for over 2 years now in Ft Gordon. It seems like there has always been a rift between the instructors and Plt Sgts (if you ask an instructor if they would like to become a Plt Sgt they ALWAYS say no). In my Unit we have the same problems with instructors complaining about everything. I'm not saying the instructors do not contribute and I am grateful for thier assistance. I would have gone crazy if it wasn't for them. My opinion is that they return to the 12 Drill SGT MTOE they had previously.

Typical day for a AIT Platoon Sergeant is from 0445 to 1800 (but usually later- 1845 to 2000) Monday through Friday. Sundays for an hour or two at 1800. That is Standard times... but you usually work longer and sometimes on Saturday. In our Unit one PLT SGT does night shift Sunday 1800 to Friday0600 and the instructors take 12 hour shifts from friday 1800 til Sunday 1800. There is no such thing as a breakfast/lunch/dinner break. You grab what you can when you can. I typically eat once or twice a day on the run.

If you are trying to choose between Drill SGT and AIT PLT SGT..

Drill SGT gets more respect/resources/money/cycle breaks. The Drill SGT hat was there to assist the Drill Sergeant with maintaining area of effect discipline. That tool has been taken from AIT Plt SGT. I've asked previous Drill SGT's who have become AIT Plt Sgt's and they say that AIT Plt SGT job is far more difficult. The Soldiers do not have the extreme structure (and only 8 week time frame) to keep them in line. They party constantly and some are bold enough to tell you to fuck off and run away from you. Sounds unbelieveable but it happens ALOT to all of the Plt Sgts in every Company. Some Soldiers stay here over a year waiting for orders/PT test/chapter. At one point we had almost 600 Soldiers in our company and 7 AIT Platoon Sergeants (one of those was the Senior Plt SGT). I'll be completely honest.. I hate this job and cannot wait to leave. I'm completely exhausted from 2 years of these crazy hours. It is, however, getting a little better. With the decline of the outragous sign on bonus the quality of IET Soldiers is increasing and we're having less problems. Most want to be here.

Try being put on assignment from Germany as an E5. I received orders for AIT land and could not for the life of me understand why. And since arriving almost 1 year ago I still do not know why I am here. I do appreciate the training that I have received since being assigned to 1 of the companies as lol (operations NCO) although a civilian was doing the job. I have my "8" identifier. I now work in the BN since my company was deactivated, and thank God I am going to reclass to something bigger and better. It's true though about the PSG's they do work their butts off. The SLs have been torn between the school house and the company and they also work their butts off. I will never understand this mentality that the army used to replace DS. I do know that being an E5 and coming here was horrible/rewarding. I did have to learn mighty quick on how to march Soldiers. Going from a squad of 5 in Germany to marching 250+ Soldiers on a daily basis was a great learning experience.

The only advice I can give anyone that on their way to becoming an AIT PSG or Instructor/Writer for the males is "KEEP THAT CRAP IN YOUR PANTS" I am struggling to gain my rank in the Army and am watching you SSG/SFC give that shit away like its Tic/Tacs. Throwing away marriages/families and losing all the respect that everyone bitches about not getting here in AIT land. The funniest thing I have heard here is from the BDE CSM. I quote from the CSM " You're an E5 and statistics prove that you're the one I need to watch out for? You young SGTs are the ones sleeping with the Soldiers!" Uh CSM check yourself and see that it's not us "E5s" It's your SSG/SFCs. I wish I had the balls to say it though. But I just sit back and watch all the Trouble Makers come and work for BDE under that same CSM.

DA selected for Platoon SGT. Honestly, there is not encouragement at all for these Plt SGT assignments - I will deny this assignment. I think Drill Sergeats are better of; at least they earn respect and benefits.

I just came from Fort Sam Houston and I was an AIT Platoon Sergeant. This job is a crop of bull. No pay (unlike Drill Sergeants), no promotion recognition (I'm still a SSG), all the Drill Sergeants that I knew got an MSM when they left, myself and a couple other AIT Platoon Sergeants got ARCOM's. They say that Drills do more than us, I have to disagree. When I was in AIT, I remember Drills turning Soldiers away who weren't even getting paid, telling the Soldiers, "that wasn't their problem", we as AIT Platoon Sergeants would be hung if we ever ignored the Soldiers. In fact the ait Soldiers are treated better then we are. I took care of every issue they had, with no help. I had a platoon of 90 almost every cycle for two years and I NEVER had Squad Leaders. It was me and my platoon every time. I even assisted in instructing out in Camp Bullis and out by Salado Creek (if you're a medic you'll know what I'm talking about). I was there for 2 years, working extraordinary hours, all for an, ARCOM and an at a boy! Please don't email me to tell me that I'm just upset, HECK YEA I'M UPSET! I know this and you do too, all I'm trying to tell you is that this job does nothing for you for career enhancement, do yourself a favor and find another job that's worth it. Oh by the way I was voted by the Soldiers 6 times as the best Platoon Sergeant so, NO I NEVER TOOK IT OUT ON THE SOLDIERS. I did my job honorably and to the best of my ability.

Originally posted by Powermeter5K:Well I have been working as an AIT Instructor with the additional duty of Squad Leader at Fort Gordon for just over a year now. Let me tell you, it is terrible. We work 14-16 hour days typically. We have memorandums from our CSM stating the different duties and responsibilities of AIT PSG's and AIT Squad leaders. They all make sense. The problem is that no one follows that direction. What is supposed to happen is that the PSG's whos only job is to handle the soldiers are supposed to be primarily responsible for the day to day duties such as running PT and counseling them for Phase-Ups. The Squad Leaders who already have an all day job teaching their respective MOS on the platform end up carrying all this on their shoulders instead of the PSG's. We typically show up earlier than they do and leave later. I am not saying that the PSG's are not doing long hours and hard work, but it is not running the way it should. TRADOC says that the squad leaders are there to assist the PSG when they need it, not to actually run a squad as they would in a normal unit. Problem is that some of our AIT "Squads" are larger than normal platoons. And some of the companies are larger in size than a BN. Having 18 NCO's to run a larger than BN size element is ridiculous. Most of us would rather be deployed again just to get out of the duty. And even though we are doing what the PSG's are supposed to be doing, they always try to make us feel like $&*t bags by telling us, "You are a NonCommissioned Officer. Suck it up." I would love to have all day to spend with the privates being able to devote all my attention to making them into better soldiers unfortunately us Instructors are not afforded that luxury, but the PSG's are and they aren't doing it.

Fort Sam Houston you have no squad leaders and the companies always and I mean always consist of 450 to 500 soldiers. Leaving the PSG with a platoon of 80 to 90+ Soldiers. You don't believe me, go and call A Co 232 and check their numbers right now. 210-221-5774. Instructors are Instructors in Sam and they come out to do PT with us, and they pull Duty NCO with us, but they are not their to be squad leaders, not while I was there from 08 to 10.

Originally posted by Jaime Navarro:As an AIT PSG for 2 years now @ Ft Sam Houston, I'd like to say how amusing it is to me how everyone has the support of the squad leader / instructors. We have the same theory here, but its not implemented at all. The Sqd Ldrs are not a part of the Bttalion per se they fall under the Dept of Combat Medical Training (DCMT) So they do't do anything with the Soldiers except teach. The also provide us with PT support and pulling duty NCO. But as far as dealing with Soldier issues... no they don't. Dont get me wrong I'm not knocking them I happen to thibk we get gr8 support from our instructors. My point is that thats is what they are Instructors not sqd leaders. So when lil Johnny acts up in school its us that have 2 drop what we're doing and go deal with the issue. We take care of the pay issues, the DX'ing of uniforms, Profile reviews, barracks maintenance, and inspections, linen turn in, PT test grading, the massive amounts of counsellings, Citizenship issues, Immunizations, serving as a taxi service to take Lil Johnny to his dental, Mental health or ortho appointment. Oh and dont forget you still have additional duties such as EO, UVA, master Driver, fire Marshall, etc. All this and more for one NCO for a platoon of upwards of 70 Soldiers. Yet some individuals think that we dont need the extra pay. Because PSG's dont get payed extra in the regular Army. I also find it offensive how some others make the Drill Sergeants out 2b some kind of mythic figure, while PSG's are somehow inferior. If I got the extra pay I guess I'd feel better. But hey we did get a snazzy new PSG leather tab to hang of of our pockets I guess t make up for not having the pumpkin patch of our Drill SGT betters. I also hear that there is a Permanent PSG badge coming out. I hope its made of solid gold then all the sacrifices and time away from my family will be worth it.

Agree totally, by the way it's me ROCK. We were on the tour together. A Co 232

Originally posted by 19K4X2B:The idea behind the implementation of the AIT Platoon Sergeant as opposed to the Drill Sergeant is to provide Soldiers with the ability to follow orders given by an NCO wearing a beret just as they would if the orders were given by a Drill Sergeant. That’s how it was explained to me by an upper echelon TRADOC CSM. Take it as you will.

I believe it is because AIT Drill Sergeant duty was much easier than BCT or OSUT duty because of the difference in work hours and the fact that the Soldiers have been trained in basic Soldiering tasks and values. Certain members of TRADOC noticed this and removed all of the AIT DS’s from the equation. Thereby saving the Army a lot of money on incentive pay, and a lot of time/money training DS’s to do a job that a high speed SFC can do. You will not have to attend Drill Sergeant School. It will be a challenging and rewarding job as you will be given a chance to mold the future leaders of our great Army on a grand scale.

Nice theory, however if that were the case. Do away with the Drill sergeant in Basic training, then you wont have to worry about the reprogramming the PVT's to follow the beret/now thank God the patrol Cap. Seems to me that when I was an AIT PSG the PVTs didnt learn squat in Basic anyways. I wont fault the DS's since I'm convinced they are as limited by TRADOC as we were.

Originally posted by Jaime Navarro:As an AIT PSG for 2 years now @ Ft Sam Houston, I'd like to say how amusing it is to me how everyone has the support of the squad leader / instructors. We have the same theory here, but its not implemented at all. The Sqd Ldrs are not a part of the Bttalion per se they fall under the Dept of Combat Medical Training (DCMT) So they do't do anything with the Soldiers except teach. The also provide us with PT support and pulling duty NCO. But as far as dealing with Soldier issues... no they don't. Dont get me wrong I'm not knocking them I happen to thibk we get gr8 support from our instructors. My point is that thats is what they are Instructors not sqd leaders. So when lil Johnny acts up in school its us that have 2 drop what we're doing and go deal with the issue. We take care of the pay issues, the DX'ing of uniforms, Profile reviews, barracks maintenance, and inspections, linen turn in, PT test grading, the massive amounts of counsellings, Citizenship issues, Immunizations, serving as a taxi service to take Lil Johnny to his dental, Mental health or ortho appointment. Oh and dont forget you still have additional duties such as EO, UVA, master Driver, fire Marshall, etc. All this and more for one NCO for a platoon of upwards of 70 Soldiers. Yet some individuals think that we dont need the extra pay. Because PSG's dont get payed extra in the regular Army. I also find it offensive how some others make the Drill Sergeants out 2b some kind of mythic figure, while PSG's are somehow inferior. If I got the extra pay I guess I'd feel better. But hey we did get a snazzy new PSG leather tab to hang of of our pockets I guess t make up for not having the pumpkin patch of our Drill SGT betters. I also hear that there is a Permanent PSG badge coming out. I hope its made of solid gold then all the sacrifices and time away from my family will be worth it.

Agree totally, by the way it's me ROCK. We were on the tour together. A Co 232

I am currently stationed at Fort Bragg, NC but have orders to report to Fort Lee, VA as an AIT PSG upon successful completion of the AIT PSG Course and the MRT Course located at Fort Jackson, SC. I am due to report to the AIT PSG Course on 15 October 11, and still have not received a welcome letter that tells me everything that I need to attend the course. I have looked numerous times online for all this information, but no such luck. If anyone could please help me out, I need the following information:

SFC Anderson, I have been doing this job for over a year now and I have to say that I like it. Of course I would have liked to have the round brown, but You do what uncle Sam tells you to do. The soldiers coming in nowadays are so brazen in the attitudes they display and the politics involved with these soldiers is so backwards I sometimes wonder what the hell is going on with the Army. I continue with the misiion and train these soldiers and weed out the crappy ones. It is difficult sometimes to get rid of the bad seeds, but when it happens you take the small victory. Big Army protects these new soldiers a lot more than they do the seasoned vets currently serving, but the job overall is very fulfilling. Your instructor counterparts offer the soldiers a different point of view. Leaving whenever they want, maintaining profiles better than they maintain themselves and overall bitching about working for 12 hours. I average 16 hours a day for 6 days. I may get Sundays off, but Occasionally I have to work.

I read all the postings and have been thinking about what Squad Leader duty in AIT should be like – now that I have a sensing of what it shouldn’t be like. Comments made by experienced Platoon Sergeants and experienced Instructors lead me to think that there isn't a single "right" answer to describe a balanced Squad Leader program, but that there are probably "wrong" answers. Anywho, I'm playing Army in the TRADOC AIT world and we’re still trying to figure out what will work best for beneficial SL program – this could mean simply striking a balance point on one that sucks the least or not having one at all.

Some high-level ‘loosely organized’ SL program thoughts on my mind:

• Fact: Instructors exert leadership in performance of their job teaching. Their hours are typically standardized and are not far off from what a ‘normal’ duty day would be like in a non-deployed FORSCOM unit. Duty is different – hours are not so much. These Instructors do not perform SL duties. • Fact: Some Instructors want to also be Squad Leaders and have a greater leadership role over the students in training, but they don’t want SL to become their fulltime day job. After all, they PCS’d to perform the job of an Instructor - - and the organization must have certified Instructors on the platform as much as they need certified PSGs with boots on the ground. • The SL program should be volunteer based. The Instructor would inform his/her supervisor in the school house of the desire to serve as SL and he/she must get approval and recommendation from the School SGM (there could be good reasons why the NCO should not be an Instructor and the SGM should lay that out for them. Otherwise, the SGM needs to be able to assess potential impact to school mission and benefit for the unit mission and benefit for the Soldier). The school SGM is key for overall organizational buy-in and may be the initial person who lays out the unit’s policy on SL duties. • Best-case scenario is that Instructors are aligned under companies; the same companies that have the IET MOS-I Soldiers and the MOS-T reclass Soldiers. The volunteering Instructor should be assigned to SL duty in the company he/she belongs. They already receive admin support, etc. from that company and know their Company Commander and First Sergeant. • If the Instructor volunteers to be SL for less than one year than it is annotated as an additional duty on his/her NCOER. If for a year/12 months, it should be annotated within the NCOER duty description. • SL duties must be defined in writing and approved in policy by the Battalion Commander and Battalion CSM to ensure the SL program is evenly executed across all the companies. • Co Cdr and 1SG perform initial SL counseling with the Instructor. Must indicate whether it’s an additional duty or a duty description insert for the Instructor. • The PSGs battlespace is the barracks area and PSGs should be the only ones performing CQ duties in the barracks. Instructors and Instructor/SLs perform Bn staff duty and requirements for Bde staff duty. The goal = striking balance. • PSGs, Instructors, and Instructor/SLs are all available to perform additional duties. There addl duty requirements prescribed by big Army are too many to assign just PSGs and Instr/SLs. The goal = striking balance. • Instr/SLs must teach from the platform because they are specially certified to do that job. So, AIT SL cannot be equated to a FORSCOM unit SL. Example SL duties in AIT should be: o assist with and periodically lead PRT in the morning. Meet up with PSGs at the barracks and assist with wake-up and moving troops to the PRT field. BTW – this helps ensure Instructors are doing PRT … you know who you are, especially if you’re 24/24 or 26/26! o Instr/SLs should not be the sole individuals waking soldiers up, marching them to PRT, and leading PRT and no PSGs are to be found the entire morning. Something is broken in the PSG channels if that’s the case or maybe they just have one helluva resiliency program. o Instr/SLs talk with the 1SG and PSGs after PRT regarding daily requirements out of the norm. o After PRT, the Instr/SL reports to the school for duty. They have ample time to teach, fix their classroom issues, and do the academic counseling’s and school house taskings. o Instr/SLs occasionally move Soldiers to chow at lunch, or dinner if running a swing shift. The PSG is still primarily responsible for troop movement where PSG presence is required at the destination; CIF for example. Nothing is worse than a Soldier acting out and no PSG there to handle the situation. Instructors just do not get the same certification training in the TRADOC ruleology for how best to handle Soldier discipline issues and corrective training. Handled incorrectly could become trainee abuse. o There are numerous occasions where PSGs are taking care Soldiers problems and the more INACTs in the unit means the more Soldier problems PSGs are dealing with. Instr/SLs can be very helpful to the overall mission by assisting with troop movement. o Instr/SLs are present at the company during WTBD training when it is scheduled – typically in the afternoons 1 or 2 days a week – typically one. o Instructors are part of the company team and the school team. First Sergeants get input to the Instr/SL’s quarterly counseling by the school leadership. Same for the NCOER and any PCS award. Any NCOER or award for an Instr that includes comments regarding SL duty must be reviewed by the First Sergeant to ensure accuracy and completeness. o PSGs should do all the administrative and disciplinary counseling’s for Soldiers. o Instr/SLs assist PSGs and the companies with leadership; they do not replace PSGs. o Don’t detail Instrs as full-time SLs for 89 days, during which time they perform solely SL functions and do not perform as Instructors in the school. This is cheating the NCO. o Don’t assign an Instructor as a full-time SL for one year. This does not = balance; the school needs their Instructors. o A telltale sign that a SL program is out of balance is when people begin discussing a SL resiliency program. That should never need to occur. o Embrace a philosophy that an AIT SL program is not even in the same ballpark as a FORSCOM unit SL role – you must change your thinking and accept that an AIT Instr/SL will do much less traditional squad leading. They must be instructors primarily and SLs secondarily.

These are just thoughts. I think if this were laid out as a skeleton framework with 1SGs, PSGs, Instructors, SGM, CSM, others talking through the additional details that maybe an acceptable organizational plan would unfold and be approved. If an acceptable policy is not agreed upon by all concerned than the decision might be to not have any SL program at all.

Originally posted by 2-Iron:I read all the postings and have been thinking about what Squad Leader duty in AIT should be like – now that I have a sensing of what it shouldn’t be like. .

I did AIT instructor/SQL duty from Aug2008-Oct2009. I disagree with much of what you've written.EDIT: On the other hand, I do like much of it. The balance part- and the SQL and PSG sharing many of the duties.

1- not many NCOs would ever 'volunteer' to work more hours than they have to.2- SQL in the real Army have to be involved in every aspect of the Soldiers' lives- including barracks. Why not at AIT then??3- SQL don't get the same training as PSG, so why are they expected to do many of the PSG jobs? 4- AGREE that taking the Instructor and putting them ONLY as SQL for a while is a bad bad idea.5- Not cool when the Instructor HAS TO teach all day then rushes to the CO area for their entire lunchbreak to handle SQL duties and sees all the PSGs sitting smoking and joking.

Here's my take on it-

a- ALL NCOs must set the example to the Soldiers at all time, even if they aren't a SQL. Examples of bad include: An instructor getting dropped in front of the Soldiers by PSG for blatant stupid behavior. During cold, waiting for PT all the SQLs and PSGs hide inside after accountability while the PVTs shiver outside, etc...b- I learned a lot of NCOmanship at AIT-land. Working closely with other NCOs you get to see a variety of leadership styles. c- On the other hand, it's too easy for lazy NCOs to just let someone else do what needs to be done. All NCOs need to police each other up.

I'm proud of my work there- I was the first (only that year?) SQL to be given a plaque from the PSG as I left. From jumping in to take accountability because both PSG in the PLT were gone (and no one else did,) to shivering with the PVTs (and using the time to ask/answer Army and MOS questions), to pushing Soldier tasks training after school twice a week, to hearing worn-out Soldiers after PT every Tuesday (SQL PT) say "I wish PT was like that everyday!" (Was recommende an MSM by instructor and CO leadership but downgraded to ARCOM)

I literally left the house at 0425 and was home around 1830 Mon-Fri and once a month did twelve hours of CQ with no comptime. I was glad to leave but had fun and think I did well. I've bumped into a few students since- they smile, rush to greet me, then start peppering me with questions and asking for help. I guess they know that I can.

((((NOT trying to brag myself up here- hopefully those who are stuck in AIT-land can remember EVERY DAY to do what they should. Take initiative, don't let the grind get you, keep spirits up, this is where you are a TRUE NCO every minute of the working day. ))))

This message has been edited. Last edited by: AutobahnSHO, 06 April 2012 13:48