In another thread I made a comment about Skyrim having lots of content (which is true).
My pal Frick, made the comment that while there is indeed a lot of content, it's shallow.
While I don't agree that it's shallow (the amount and depth of lore in the ES series in incredible) it is rather generic fantasy fare.

Note : Content in this context is storyline, not graphics or other game assets.

There aren't a lot of games where the experience is a ride into a philisophical one that makes one think on a deeper level, but that brings up some interesting questions.

Do you buy a game for pure entertainment, or do you want a thought provoking experience?
Would you prefer less, deeply involved content (a shorter game) or are you fine with just lots of generic content?

The two are by no means mutually exclusive, but as the content of a game grows it does become much harder to make every experience a deep meaningful one, and the question becomes, "is this even necessary to create a thoroughly enjoyable game?"

I still think System Shock 2 tops all my charts. If anyone remakes it to work on Win7 or Win8, i'm willing to pay 50 EUR for it (again).

The immersion level in this game is just jaw dropping. Anyone who played it will know what i mean. When you walk the decks of Von Braun and UNN Rickenbacker, you can just feel the metallic floor beneath your feet, everything about it is so believable. And i still think that if this game was done in any other engine than Dark Engine, it wouldn't feel like it did. The game was released in 1999, but it looked better than games released years later, mostly because they employed an artistic touch to textures that added the unique feel of bump mapping. Objects just felt like they have more detail and depth because of it even though they were still very low poly objects.

If there was a possibility to erase my memory of System Shock 2 gameplay i'd do it several times a year just to experience that pristine experience of playing it first time. Over and over.

Note : Content in this context is storyline, not graphics or other game assets.

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This is where Bethsoft falls short. The storyline in Skyrim (and Fallout 3 for that matter) is just a sideproduct, and it's not made that good. The dialouge (which carry the storyline) is generally speaking pretty stupid. Yes the ES universe has a ton of interesting stuff, but it's all relegated to the background, and hunting butterflies for wings and trying to climb mountains with a horse while turtles snap at your feet is the foreground. And that bugs me. In a game where you can do "anything", the specifics and fine detail is pushed away. But credit where it's due, Skyrim would've been a better game if they included a hardcore mode, you know when you have to eat and sleep etc. Now it's just a bunch of stuff to do but you don't gain anything by doing it, except levels, but when there's nothing to do other than randomly explore and fight of wolfs that keep attacking you (and the occasional dragon fight) it gets rather pointless. Yes you can shout, and the shouts are pretty cool, but to what end? The world is so open it feels cramped and pointless. There's no effort to anything, except grinding (which shouldn't exist in a SP game and anyway it's not a real effort), it's an empty shell. You're pretty much a God, and that is not a good way to do these kinds of games.

I never finished oblivion for the same reason. While there is a lot of content, it tends to be generic.. Same reason I find myself having stopped playing Skyrim.
Mass effect had a nice story until ME3 imo..
I like well developed characters and plot lines.
Things that drag me in. Shallow is garbage to me.
I find myself playing L4D2 more than Skyrim now a days.. That in it's self is sad.

Personally I think it is a terrible strategy, to make a huge game, that is absolutely boring.. Yay there is so much to do! But it's all the same thing, repackaged.. Go here do this, go there kill that.. Bleh..
I want a solid story..

I totally agree with you on this one. Games nowadays are just made for the sake of making one and making money. I compare games to modern storybooks since to be honest do kids today pick up a storybook about princesses and same crap and read through them? they're more likely to grab a controller and mash away turning them to rotten spoiled brats.

If a game delivers an amazing story, with the right amount of content, that would be a great buy.

I totally agree with you on this one. Games nowadays are just made for the sake of making one and making money. I compare games to modern storybooks since to be honest do kids today pick up a storybook about princesses and same crap and read through them? they're more likely to grab a controller and mash away turning them to rotten spoiled brats.

If a game delivers an amazing story, with the right amount of content, that would be a great buy.

Sigh storyline arguments, if I want to read a book, I'll read a book. I can guarantee you that no studio is our hiring the next Tolkien because 1. it would be impossible to live up to, 2. it would completely take away any control the user has over the outcome of events.

Instead they try to give the user the most control they can while trying to tell the best story that is possible with the time constraints, user choice limitation, and budget contraints.

PLUS it's foolish for any game studio to put too much into story because everyone likes different things.

I personally love the max payne series for the gameplay, but think the storyline sucks ass and is completely unbelievable, especially number 2. Yet maxpayne 2 made the favorite list for storyline for someone else in this thread.

This is the same as those who don't like cutscenes made with in game graphics, sure the pretties are nice but if I want epic cutscenes I'll just watch a movie...

again people it's gaming! as in I want to play, relax, kill things, and otherwise do cool crap that isn't possible in real life.

Stop trying to put gaming in a sub genre of something else. Video games are their own genre and they serve their own purpose.

again people it's gaming! as in I want to play, relax, kill things, and otherwise do cool crap that isn't possible in real life.

Stop trying to put gaming in a sub genre of something else. Video games are their own genre and they serve their own purpose.

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They do serve their own purpose, and to me that purpose is to tell/experience stories in new ways. Yes, cutscenes are bad (generally), but lenghty dialouge is not (if done right).

Also, I find it pretty funny that you don't like the story in Max Payne because it's unbelievable and then claim you play games to do stufff that isn't possible irl. (no offence (as this is a Civilized Thread), I just laughed)

Video games aren't a genre, they are an interactive medium. How that interactivity plays out, and what suits you, is what I'm interested in hearing from you all. This is, of course, all subjective and there are no right and wrong answers ... just opinions.

It seems that most of the people who've posted thus far prefer following along a story (assuming it is well written). These types of games remove most of the control from the player even if the game appears to not do so, as the developer's must keep the story flowing in one particular direction or another. There is nothing wrong with this as I personally love a good book.

There are, however, a lot of people who like sandbox types games where the story is minimal (if there is one at all) but gives the player a huge amount of freedom (and content) to do their own thing, even if that thing has nothing to do with the intent of the game.
A few good examples in different genres are Minecraft, the ES Series and EvE Online. These games sell extrememly well, and their longevity is a testament to how much their fan base likes them.

So, this introduces another question. If someone is tossed into a sandbox game (with no particular direction), where they have the option to do anything their heart desires, and they don't like it ... why?
Too unstructured? Too much of a creative investment when all they want is to be entertained? Lack of imagination or find setting personal goals in a game undesirable?

I personally enjoy the sandbox games more, but that is my own opinion and I would like to hear what makes everyone elses' boat float.
Again, there are no wrong answers (and there will not be a quiz at the end )

PLUS it's foolish for any game studio to put too much into story because everyone likes different things.

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And why is that? The more diversity the better. Otherwise there would be a lot of braindead games that just clone each other. I don't want to play cod, bf and all that meaningless stuff I don't care about. It's boring and dull. Video games can't be called art it's rather entertainment but it doesn't mean it has to be about wsad and mouse clicking. There has to be originality.

There are games like Skyrim, which after playing for quite a few hours I can honestly say that the default experience is a vanilla cone with some sprinkles as far the depth goes, however, it does allow for individual gameplay that keeps you occupied if you don't mind some monotony.

Then there are games that require a player to actually work for the win, and while I agree after playing Skyrim it does seem a bit shallow, if it hadn't been so shallow for new to RPG users like me it would end up like Morrowwind, or numerous other RPG's I have, too little time to invest in a game makes it annoying to play. Skyrim once you learn the basics, the rest gets picked up and the fact you can float by on a few skills makes it (almost) too easy to play, but hard to stop.

In the end I feel that having played Skyrim now I will be able to understand the genera of RPG enough to play Morrowwind and other games and appreciate them if not like them.

I still think System Shock 2 tops all my charts. If anyone remakes it to work on Win7 or Win8, i'm willing to pay 50 EUR for it (again).

The immersion level in this game is just jaw dropping. Anyone who played it will know what i mean. When you walk the decks of Von Braun and UNN Rickenbacker, you can just feel the metallic floor beneath your feet, everything about it is so believable. And i still think that if this game was done in any other engine than Dark Engine, it wouldn't feel like it did. The game was released in 1999, but it looked better than games released years later, mostly because they employed an artistic touch to textures that added the unique feel of bump mapping. Objects just felt like they have more detail and depth because of it even though they were still very low poly objects.

If there was a possibility to erase my memory of System Shock 2 gameplay i'd do it several times a year just to experience that pristine experience of playing it first time. Over and over.

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OT: i've successfully managed to get it working using the SS2 ModManager and SS2Tools plus a lot of re-skinned textures, models and sounds (all optional) not to mention full 1920x1080 resolution. I share your love and admiration for the game as I bought it back in '99 and only recently just re-installed it after determining to see it through to completion. If you're interested, PM me and I'll send you the link for everything you'll need for it.

@Steevo : If you can get past the really dated graphics, Morrowind is a better game from an imaginitive standpoint. It's much more surreal and interesting than either Oblivion or Skyrim.

@Drone : RE: Originality. : One could argue that there is no originality in video games as the developers' had to get their inspiration from somewhere and are just expanding on previous ideas. Thoughts?

I have understood after a lot of years of gaming, that difficult games where you try to complete levels, they get a storage in mind.
It has to do with your real life experience though. I hate Call of Duty and there is a big chance i hate people who play call of duty. You dont need any brains to complete that, just kill people.

Good)My preferred games are those where you use your brains, have a logic why you should use your brain and the story. Buying and selling in a game is optional and it seems great.

For example where you use brains is the tomb raider(1-6) series. The objective is to find secret places, but that experience can even be used in real life!

Dead Space, Indigo Prophecy and Condemned story are my favorites. They have a great stories.

There are normally other great games which i have played from NES to PC.

Bad)For example i hate sports games. You better play them in real life. But if a basketball game, gives you a T-Shirt if you complete 3 point, than it has a good reason to be played.
I totally hate games where you should find pieces in the screen from a picture, or girls games.

One last thing is the graphics. I like cartoon graphics like GTA San Andreas than real life graphics

I personally play games to get away from the day to day stress that is real life. I like to take my frustrations out in a virtual world( you generaly dont go to jail for it) I happen to like the shooters as the multi play against other people presents a never ending challenge as no two people react the same. But I also play games like diablo which is a hack and slash game.

Games in my opinion with the best stories were crysis,medal of honor. and a very old game Mechwarrior4.

Sigh storyline arguments, if I want to read a book, I'll read a book. I can guarantee you that no studio is our hiring the next Tolkien because 1. it would be impossible to live up to, 2. it would completely take away any control the user has over the outcome of events.

Instead they try to give the user the most control they can while trying to tell the best story that is possible with the time constraints, user choice limitation, and budget contraints.

PLUS it's foolish for any game studio to put too much into story because everyone likes different things.

I personally love the max payne series for the gameplay, but think the storyline sucks ass and is completely unbelievable, especially number 2. Yet maxpayne 2 made the favorite list for storyline for someone else in this thread.

This is the same as those who don't like cutscenes made with in game graphics, sure the pretties are nice but if I want epic cutscenes I'll just watch a movie...

again people it's gaming! as in I want to play, relax, kill things, and otherwise do cool crap that isn't possible in real life.

Stop trying to put gaming in a sub genre of something else. Video games are their own genre and they serve their own purpose.

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lol.. Ok everyone, conform to Yogurts way of gaming or you're just idiots.. You see how dumb that sounds now? lol..

Ug, I could dismantle these series of statements easily for the next few minutes but I think it's best to just move on..

@Drone : RE: Originality. : One could argue that there is no originality in video games as the developers' had to get their inspiration from somewhere and are just expanding on previous ideas. Thoughts?

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But this can be said just about anything else that people ever do. Don't you think so? Everyone reinvents a wheel somehow, everyone "steals" ideas (even unintentionally). Originality should lie somewhere else. It's not like "wow this is kewl, no one ever did this before!!!" it's rather "I found another way to do it".

But this can be said just about anything else that people ever do. Don't you think so? Everyone reinvents a wheel somehow, everyone "steals" ideas (even unintentionally). Originality should lie somewhere else. It's not like "wow this is kewl, no one ever did this before!!!" it's rather "I found another way to do it".

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I agree. So what are some games that you think used previous ideas to good new effect?