Common sense does indeed tell you that inhaling smoke is bad for you, I challenge you to walk down a busy street and not inhale just as many fumes checked out by car and lorry exhausts, should we ban cars from the streets for the smog they create?

Yeah but cars and trucks actually do something useful. Out present economy relies on the easy availability of transport. On the other hand smokers are just indulging in a selfish drug trip.

Originally Posted by Knoxville

As for a ban on smoking in places of work its just plain ridiculous imo, do they expect everyone to run home every few hours to have a cigarette and then run back? I'd say pubs in ireland have seen they're profits fall since that law was imposed.

Not in Ireland mate. It aint that easy to stop and Irishman drinking . No but seriously thats what everyone said before the ban but the gov pushed ahead with (surprising for them ) but now the numbers in pubs are just the same. If people have to smoke a fag they go outside (in the rain ). I know some people think it is an affront to their basic human rights if they are not able to smoke in public but the majority of people feel that it is a good thing. The fact that no one will light up in a restaurant is brilliant. And the clean air in the pubs is amazing. You feel much better after a night out. No sore throughts or bleary eyes and hangovers dont seem so bad.

Originally Posted by Knoxville

Lynni, the smokers you know are obviously ignorant and need to be told, personally i never smoke while people are eating and if im surrounded by a room of none smokers (happens very rarely) i'll either go outside or ask if they mind me lighting up.

But not choking on the traffic? That's an unusually high degree of sensitivity to a very specific form of smoke; so specific that I hope you don't mind my asking if you actually suffer from an allergy to tobacco smoke? That's not a criticism, or indeed any suggestion that you shouldn't object to people smoking in public, it's just that that's really a bit hypersensitive.

Well of course you would think it was hypersensitive because your a smoker. Traffic smoke is not the same as tobacco smoke. It also much more dissapated due to the movement of the cars. Have you ever put your head near the exhaust of a new petrol car? It isnt really that bad the most noticable thing is the lack of oxygen in the fumes not any choking or eyewatering fumes. Whereas if you put your head near a smoky wood fire or cigarette smoke your eyes water and you are very likely to cough. I am not saying that exhaust fumes are not as bad for us as tobacco smoke just that it is quite different so just because people dont choke on exhaust fumes and do on tobacco fumes doesnt mean they are hypersensitive to the latter.

Well of course you would think it was hypersensitive because your a smoker...

I might also think that because the volume of smoke produced by a cigarette is vanishingly small compared to that from a car, and also compared to a wood fire. Further, I'd note that smoke from a cigarette in open air is also dissipated rapidly, due to the movement of people, wind, motion of air from passing traffic etc. I'd reiterate that I certainly wasn't being critical of lynni, it's just that her description of her symptoms sounds a lot like an allergic reaction. And I certainly wouldn't ask anyone to put their head near a cigarette of mine, and I go to some lengths to avoid anything like that happening.

I might also think that because the volume of smoke produced by a cigarette is vanishingly small compared to that from a car, and also compared to a wood fire. Further, I'd note that smoke from a cigarette in open air is also dissipated rapidly, due to the movement of people, wind, motion of air from passing traffic etc. I'd reiterate that I certainly wasn't being critical of lynni, it's just that her description of her symptoms sounds a lot like an allergic reaction. And I certainly wouldn't ask anyone to put their head near a cigarette of mine, and I go to some lengths to avoid anything like that happening.

You only have to be three people behind a smoker, going down the street and depending on the wind direction its blown straight into your face and i know cos this has happened to me

I don't smoke in the house and wont if I have a choice, been smoking for 12 years and I'm on about 15-20 fags a day and find it extremely difficult to stop as it has become a habbit, someting that I do and it's very difficult to change routine. It's not just nicotine it more than that, when someone says they need a ciggy to de-stress them out its about taking 5 minutes break to gather your thoughts and calm down. Trouble is it becomes very difficult to find alternatives when that pattern is so deeply set in your mind.

I've managed to stop a couple times, the first time was for 6 months which ended when I crashed me bike and got a very bad concusion, afterwards I had very bad smoking pangs so I gave in. The most recent was after I finished uni, it was easy to stop then because my stress levels after finishing where almost zero and I was very positive about the future and I moved and it was easy to get out of the routine in a new house, but after a while my stress levels where very high with the worry of work and I started again. Oh and I say stop rather than quit because if someone stops till they die then they have managed to quit, and I cant see that far into the future so stop seems a better word.

Stopping smoking isnt easy, for me I've tried several different ways and the best (for me) is the complete stop, just stop smoking and dont use any of the patches of gum the only trouble with this is you have to want to stop, not just because you know you should or the money but that you actually dont like smoking anymore at that point it's a damn sight easier. Thats why I can understand how a pregnant Mum can stop because all thats going through her head is that she must do it for the childs sake, but once the child is born that reason is gone or has too many ways of getting around it like only smoking outside and away from the baby.
Although saying that my atempts at stopping smoking havent exactly worked , and before someone asks at the moment I dont want to stop.
You can ask well she's stopped for this long why does she continue? And that is down to the smoke pangs and routine which you can still get for anything up to the rest of your life, where something just sets you back off and before you know it your smoking again.

I really cant say how I feel about a public smoking ban, In some ways I'd probably have to say I'm for it because of smoking in resturants although I have done it in the past I dont do it anymore, I don't enjoy it when someone lights up a cigarette in the middle of a meal and at a resturant that tends to happen a lot because people start there meal at different time, that and most people I know can manage to go without a cigarette for a couple of hours without getting too grouchy . Pubs and night clubs might prove to be a little more difficult it would be nice if there was a smoking lounge to go into which was well conditioned.
I can also see that a smoking ban has had a negative effect like on planes, which has allowed the companies to reduce the amount of times they recycle the air making the air quality a whole lot poorer. If because of a public ban people are going to use it as an excuse to fit sub standard air conditioning at work or in pubs/clubs then that is not a good thing. The other thing is the amount of money that smoking provides in terms of tax, its easy to argue that if no one smoked there would be less cancer cases and the treatment costs for that would be greatly reduced but the tax itself covers more than that, if you remove smoking completely where is that money going to come from? Will you complain the rise in tax generaly to cover this loss in income?

The arguement that smoking should be banned because it only social is a sore point for me, because I think alcohol is no better than drugs in terms of the damage and trouble it causes and a whole lot worse than smoking, you only have to look at the amount of voilence that is alcohol related, also the amount of damage it does to people just look at George Best....but this could end up going off topic so I'll leave it there .

On the whole subject of how bad it is for you and other around you, the main danger I thought was from a chemical that increases the growth rate of cancer and can cause domant cancer cells to become active?
People have also rightly pointed out that unleaded petrol exhaust is infact worse because it has a higher concentration of a cancer causeing chemical.
These arn't the only things that have cancer causing chemicals, wasn't there a scare about the pill not that long ago? And I remeber a slight panic over mobile phones, and the other big concern is skin cancer which has risen rather dramatically over the last 5 years. And isn't the highest percentage of cancer, breast cancer? Its all cause for concern but smoking is the easiest one to lash out at because of the anti-smoking campain.

Anyway I'm 27, I ride a Motorbike, Smoke, eat fatty foods, dont do enough exercise and according to the latest statisics should probably already be dead....

I might also think that because the volume of smoke produced by a cigarette is vanishingly small compared to that from a car, and also compared to a wood fire. Further, I'd note that smoke from a cigarette in open air is also dissipated rapidly, due to the movement of people, wind, motion of air from passing traffic etc. I'd reiterate that I certainly wasn't being critical of lynni, it's just that her description of her symptoms sounds a lot like an allergic reaction. And I certainly wouldn't ask anyone to put their head near a cigarette of mine, and I go to some lengths to avoid anything like that happening.

Well what i'm saying is that tobacco is more potent as a throught and eye irritant than exhaust fumes. Fag smoke is very 'smoky' like a hay fire the smoke is very dense strong so despite the low quantities and the relatively rapid dissapation a good waft of it can still cause you to choke or make your eyes water if you are a non smoker.

I really don't agree, its not the same for all non-smokers, i can understand if some people are more sensitive to it than the rest of us but to say a good waft makes you choke even when your a few yards away is exaggeration imo

In the past when one of my mates (an adament non-smoker, never tried it in his life) had been takin the mick i turned round and blew smoke in his face from about 2 feet away, no chocking, he rubbed his eyes and carried on talking.

I used to smoke, but gave up at university. Found myself scrabbling around for change to buy fags. Collecting copper coins from around the house to buy 10 fags was embarrasing really. Every day at work i see lives ruined by smoking. Heart attacks, emhysema and cancer. It really is horrible to see someone die of lung cancer. Therefore think about the future and not about now. Make the effort to give up and it would make my day a hell of a lot quieter. Go to a hospital and speak to one of the clinical staff and see how many people on the medical wards are there because of smoking, you will be shocked.

Why shouldn't we 'bash and hate' you? Society disagrees with vandals and winos and others who impose their dubious habits on others so why not smokers.

Well I think you're taking things a bit far there - I don't think anyone here would claim that smokers go out of there way to damage other peoples property. I have also never heard of anyone having too many smokes and damaging other peoples property.

BTW Read my post, I don't smoke.

Society used to have the same beliefs on homosexuals and used to 'bash and hate' them. Was this right? I certainly don't believe so.

Originally Posted by turkster

Common sense would tell you that breathing in smoke is hazardous to your health. Why do you think we invented chimneys?

Read my post - Smoking is bad for you - I Agree.

Originally Posted by turkster

Why is it non smokers fault if their health is effected by smokers? Thats why , in civilised countries, we have laws. To prevent people damaging other people.

No - it's your fault if you go in a smokey place and then complain about the smoke. It's like going into a slaughter house and complaining about the blood.

Originally Posted by turkster

Smokers can kill themselves if they want but not in any public place.

So we'll ban alcohol as it's dangerous - and makes other people more dangerous.

And lets ban motorbikes as well - they cause more deaths than smoking every year. Everyone should drive cars as they're safer.

Were do you stop?

Originally Posted by turkster

Well thats tough. If you lived over here youd have to get used to it. Of course there were people whining about it prior to the ban but like any law they just had to get used to it or get used to breaking it. The reasoning behind it was on consideration of the health implications of passive smoking.

If this were really so - the goverment should ban motorcycles and alcohol as well.

Originally Posted by turkster

As for believeing in God, He isnt bad for your health and isnt meant to bad for anyone elses.

Never said he is. Read the post. I don't have a problem with anyone believing in anything. I have a problem with them trying to impose their beliefs on me. Especially when I'm asleep on a Sunday Morning.

Having seen kids being dragged round door to door by their parents in gales and pouring rain - I believe than can damage your health.

Not as much as smoking round kids though - thats truely wrong.

Originally Posted by turkster

If a gov can make such a wide ranging and controversial decision dont tell me there is nothing to it.

Unfortunately, I've known goverments to be wrong before. I've known them to make some really stupid decisions before tbh. They are after all, only human.

Originally Posted by turkster

Well you may have noticed we have laws.

Everytime theres a discussion on anything here, this comes up. If you really believe this - and that all laws are correct - what is the point in discussing anything?

Last point. No one forces you to go into a smokey room - this was true in the 1950s, when you wouldn't think twice about lighting up in someones house, but is not now.

I have no problem with people opening pubs/resturants or whatever as no smoking businesses. What I have a problem with is the idea we should just ban smoking entirely.

Well I think you're taking things a bit far there - I don't think anyone here would claim that smokers go out of there way to damage other peoples property. I have also never heard of anyone having too many smokes and damaging other peoples property.

BTW Read my post, I don't smoke.

Ok sorry I didnt see that you dont smoke.
I'm not saying smokers go out of there way to damage other peoples property but that doesnt mean they dont. They just do it without consideration. As for not damaging somones property have you ever been in a house where people smoke or hung around a chain smoker?

Originally Posted by Rythmic

Society used to have the same beliefs on homosexuals and used to 'bash and hate' them. Was this right? I certainly don't believe so.

Yes but that was due to cultural taboos not established fact.

Originally Posted by Rythmic

No - it's your fault if you go in a smokey place and then complain about the smoke. It's like going into a slaughter house and complaining about the blood.

Thats silly and you didnt answer the question. The blood in a slaughter house aint going to kill me and anyway why would I want to go into a slaughter house in the first place unless you think i socialise with dead cows . The thing is that smokers can be found in nearly every public place. So why should I not go into that pub/restaurant etc just because there are some smokers in there. You say It is my fault for going in but why? Why is it my fault that people smoke and deprive me and others of fresh air in public places?

Originally Posted by Rythmic

So we'll ban alcohol as it's dangerous - and makes other people more dangerous.

Well thats another question entirely.

Originally Posted by Rythmic

And lets ban motorbikes as well - they cause more deaths than smoking every year. Everyone should drive cars as they're safer.

Were do you stop?

Well as I have said before motorbikes etc serve a legitimate and useful purpose albeit sometimes dangerous.

Originally Posted by Rythmic

Unfortunately, I've known goverments to be wrong before. I've known them to make some really stupid decisions before tbh. They are after all, only human.

True but I'm just pointing out that there is strong evidence behind the dangers of passive smoking.

Originally Posted by Rythmic

Everytime theres a discussion on anything here, this comes up. If you really believe this - and that all laws are correct - what is the point in discussing anything?

Well the point is that it isnt law yet in the UK. I didnt say all laws are correct but they do control your life whatever you say.

I'm not saying smokers go out of there way to damage other peoples property but that doesnt mean they dont.

In public places, either side can argue as much as they want, in the end, it's a public place and you choose what you want to do. If only the majority have a major issue about it, then bring it up and do something about it instead of whinging on a forum and sitting back waiting for something to happen.

True but I'm just pointing out that there is strong evidence behind the dangers of passive smoking.

You know the government is ripping you when they know the dangers themselves but dont completely ban fags coz they reap quite a bit of moolah from it. Strong evidence, or pure blatent fact, this economy would probably suffer (bearing in mind that for quite a few, smoking and drinking go hand in hand) if we just outlawed cancer sticks.

Well the point is that it isnt law yet in the UK. I didnt say all laws are correct but they do control your life whatever you say.

Laws dont control lifes, they shouldn't anyway . . . some laws make sense, in which it's just common sense . . . other laws dont make much sense and people can be pretty liberal about breaking laws - most people break laws on a daily basis.

So why should I not go into that pub/restaurant etc just because there are some smokers in there.

That I can agree with . . . however, I think it's up to establishment to have their own rules of smoking. It's kinda like walking into someone's flat, you have to respect their decision whether or not you can spark up. If the restarant hasn't got a smoking policy, then it's up to you whether or not you choose to dine with people who may or may not smoke - otherwise, go to pizza hut

Personally, I think the Government should just ban cancer sticks. Too much money is being poured into making people trying to give up (the labels on ciggies, I saw the ad with the fat dropping off the cigarettes, the 30-odd year old who's got cancer and the lassie who cant breath, cant say it affects me much other than "tough ****, I'll be like that maybe one day"). The number of people I know (who smoke) who have been even the slightest bit affected/effected: 0. Doesn't mean to say it doesnt have an effect, but

I dont really care if the economy goes to pot, it'll be fairer to the other countries

Take drink driving for example, if in 1965 you decided to go to pub in car have a drink or seven then drive home nobody would bat an eyelid. If you were to do it now you'd be a social leper! Has the act of drink driving changed? No! Just society's view on it. People love something to wail at.

Before you flame me to a cinder - I am not saying smoking is good! Yes, I smoke. No, I bloody wish I didn't. I am trying to give up.

(As to some of the others comments...)

I must stress that I am VERY CONCIOUS of how unpleasant my smoke is to people who dont! I would never ever dream of lighting up when people are eating If I am with non-smokers I will ALWAYS ask if they mind me lighting up - And even if they say they dont mind, I will do my damndest to make sure it doesn't blow over them (indoors or out), I will even move round so the smoke is drawn away from them. And that includes a pub!

What annoys me are people who can say ALL smokers are inconsiderate. I take that to include me, which then becomes a slur on my character, and you dont even know me! I am always coniderate to other peoples views and wishes - often to the detriment of my own... Yes, perhaps in modern society I am in a minority, but I do actually put others first!