Comments

Comment by menasheh

55 stam on a dps piece? Come on Blizz...this is clearly inferior to Red Belt of Battle, which has a much lower ilvl (128).

Comment by kiqs1489

it'll be better than Belt of Seething Fury for Retri Pallys or probably the best belt for Retri Pallys!!!

Comment by kareeem010

whats going on in 2.4?? great amounts of haste, stam....but no crit and lower str than stam!?

Comment by Avire

If you calculate the amount of haste you gain from a full haste gear set, it roughly can increase your attack speed by 15% or more, in this sense, it increases the damage output of your attacks per minute, and in further more makes up for the lost in strength, for if they have strength, and increase in attack it would be calling for a nerf. Which also brings me to remind you haste already got nerfed. One final thing, there breaking up the type of class/spec you are, if you are MS warrior, you are strength, and critical. (pvp build) If you are Fury Warrior, you are strength and speed. (pve build) there basically saying if you critical with a Fury warrior it adds to you're already high attack speed by procing flurry, but by lowering the critical chance, they balance out the boost in natural haste, and chance of procing haste abilities. I hope this helps

P.S.

To those who will say "MS always been pvp build" I understand that, I am just stating the obvious of how much effort they are putting into on fully directing one build being more superior to another depending on pvp vs. pve builds. Armor piercing directed to pvp, while haste is being directed to pve.

Comment by Mayhew

Also, why is it that Chain of Unleashed Rage (ilvl 128) and this belt (ilvl 141) have the exact same armor?

Comment by Cbennett24

For fury warriors in particular, Haste rating is a far more beneficial stat to stack than armor penetration.

Just try it out in the spreadsheets.

Obviously 1 haste is going to be worth more than 1 ArP, because ArP's stat value is much lower than Haste. Think of it this way: Just as, in terms of stat value, 1 str/crit/hit/haste is worth 1.5 stam, 1 str/crit/hit/haste is worth 7 ArP. Thus, a rare ArP gem (if it existed) would have 56 ArP. For any Warrior, ArP is by far the best stat to stack; any statements to the contrary are fallacious and contradict both theorycrafting and common sense.

The rest of this comment also makes incredibly little sense.

First off you gain more hits over time with haste, that is highly synergistic with crit and anything that works with crit (deep wounds, flurry).

The whole point of haste as a suboptimal stat is that, although you get more hits over time with haste, they are only white hits; also, hasted attacks will eat up flurry charges faster and you gain no greater benefit from flurry with faster weapons. Deep wounds is also almost constistenly up; thus faster crits really have no effect on the damage that this ability provides.

Secondly, for fury warriors especially, Haste rating improves the quality of attacks like heroic strike and cleave, making them more rage efficient attacks, and thus indirectly boosts their damage as well.

Haste rating has no effect on the "quality" of on-next-swing attacks like heroic strike or cleave; also, it makes them less rage efficient, because they will eat up a fixed amount of rage every time your mainhand weapon swings, and the more haste you have the faster your mainhand swings and the more rage per second you consume.

Finally for arms warriors, a sane amount of haste rating indirectly results into better and more rage efficient slam rotations and more chances to proc sword specialization.

With haste you get to fit more slams in the same amount of time that you would do without haste.

Haste does increase your chance to proc sword spec, but this is again part of your white damage. In addition, what most people fail to understand is that stats like Str, Crit, and especially ArP affect every attack and ability that haste does, as well as many others. For example, ArP, in addition to increasing the damage of every white attack and sword spec proc that happens, will also increase the damage of your specials, something that haste does not do. Haste does not effect the cast time of slam; although you can fit in more slams with a faster swing timer, you are still limited by the global cooldown and the stats wasted on haste could be used to increase your dps even more if they were put toward other, better scaling stats.

Comment by Mainfold

red belt of battle is so much easier to get now, so there is no point in getting this one due to it's suckyness and it's stamina-based being. rather have more strength or crit then the additional stam, some stam is ok but as a warrior or a paladin it ain't that necessary to have a load of stam(as dps).

Comment by Caldonas

Obviously 1 haste is going to be worth more than 1 ArP, because ArP's stat value is much lower than Haste. Think of it this way: Just as, in terms of stat value, 1 str/crit/hit/haste is worth 1.5 stam, 1 str/crit/hit/haste is worth 7 ArP. Thus, a rare ArP gem (if it existed) would have 56 ArP. For any Warrior, ArP is by far the best stat to stack; any statements to the contrary are fallacious and contradict both theorycrafting and common sense.

The ArP gem would be 53-54 ArP, but roughly there, yes. It's 1 haste for 6.66 ArP at least according to Wowwikki. And with net values, the DPS increase is very very similar. ArP scales better the more you have of it, but haste helps all your other stats scale better the more you have of it without sacrificing others, as a fury warrior.

I stand by my statement that haste is more valuable to stack than ArP for fury warriors, assuming common sense is used whilst stacking.

As for Theorycrafting please refer to the warrior DPS spreadsheet at ejforums. Use a Fury warrior setup, try with 1200 ArP and executioner enchant at mainhand and try with 180 Haste Rating and executioner enchant at mainhand.

These are equivalent values as per the wowwikki formula, and haste comes up as the winner there.

What I'm saying does not contradict either theorycrafting, or common sense.

The whole point of haste as a suboptimal stat is that, although you get more hits over time with haste, they are only white hits; also, hasted attacks will eat up flurry charges faster and you gain no greater benefit from flurry with faster weapons. Deep wounds is also almost constistenly up; thus faster crits really have no effect on the damage that this ability provides.

If you do 20 attacks in 20 seconds and you have 30% chance on each attack to proc flurry, then your chances to proc flurry are smaller than if you had 24 attacks in 20 seconds with a 30% chance on each attack to proc flurry. It is that simple. You can argue that they eat up more flurry charges, but all white attacks are meant to "Eat up" flurry charges. If you use two slow 2.6 or 2.7 weapons, nothing "eats up" your charges if you have hasted attacks via haste rating, that's just confusing the old argument used to counter why fast offhands are "better" for fury warriors.

You can only say something "eats up" your flurry charges, when you would rather something else to consume them, but it doesn't. Such as a fast offhand eating up flurry charges from your slow mainhand that you'd much prefer to receive the benefit.

Haste does not "eat up" flurry. Instead it both indirectly increases your chances to proc it, and already provides a small portion of the benefit of flurry on its own.

Haste rating has no effect on the "quality" of on-next-swing attacks like heroic strike or cleave; also, it makes them less rage efficient, because they will eat up a fixed amount of rage every time your mainhand weapon swings, and the more haste you have the faster your mainhand swings and the more rage per second you consume.

...You dump rage more efficiently with faster attack speed. Well known fact, no fallacy or imaginary stuff here.

Nobody dumps all their rage like a stupid muffin on these attacks. But more heroic strikes over time directly equates more damage from heroic strikes and better rage efficiency of those heroic strikes, which also burn out less rage over less time. (2.6 speed of equal DPS to 2.0 speed:1 2.6 speed hit generates more rage than 1 2.0 speed hit. Using a heroic strike at 2.6 means you lose this more rage and also means you lose it until the next 2.6 hit. It's almost a "double" rage loss over time, because the cooldowns of the rest of your abilities keep ticking away. Thus you will be able to dump more heroic strikes at better DPR (damage per rage) value with a faster weapon than with a slow one.)

So, reinstating two facts here:

1) Using heroic strike with slower speed does burn more rage per single use of heroic strike

2) Using heroic strike with faster speed allows for the free, non-rage-starving usage of more heroic strikes in between instants, resulting in higher damage over time.

Disregarding this important bit of Fury warrior DPS and delegating haste as a "white damage only" improvement is a fallacy.

Haste does increase your chance to proc sword spec, but this is again part of your white damage. In addition, what most people fail to understand is that stats like Str, Crit, and especially ArP affect every attack and ability that haste does, as well as many others. For example, ArP, in addition to increasing the damage of every white attack and sword spec proc that happens, will also increase the damage of your specials, something that haste does not do. Haste does not effect the cast time of slam; although you can fit in more slams with a faster swing timer, you are still limited by the global cooldown and the stats wasted on haste could be used to increase your dps even more if they were put toward other, better scaling stats.

Frankly? Haste is not worth the branding of a "crap DPS stat" people keep throwing at it.

I can understand saying this, to an extent as an Arms 33/28 Slam warrior, but certainly can't accept this coming from a fury warrior, or issued as a generalizing statement for both, especially when fact theory and itemization all point in favor of haste for fury warrior, at current.

This particular item suffers from overly high stamina and blue socket which is why its not a very justifiable option for its iLvL. Red Belt is indeed probably a better option in the end. But that's not because "it has haste rating ergo it sucks".

Yes, Haste Rating separates itself as a much more PvE-beneficial stat, whilst ArP is very decent for PvE and absolutely great for PvP up to a certain extent. But trying to dub the stat worthless for fury warriors for PvE when compared to ArP, or saying it scales at half the expected rate are both very erroneous statements.

Comment by omoikane

Haste rating has no effect on the "quality" of on-next-swing attacks like heroic strike or cleave; also, it makes them less rage efficient, because they will eat up a fixed amount of rage every time your mainhand weapon swings, and the more haste you have the faster your mainhand swings and the more rage per second you consume.

I agree with everything you said except this. The more heroic strikes you can do without gimping your rotation the better you DPS--so haste (and hit rating) affects at least this "yellow" attack. With more haste you will get more rage in the same duration of time, and more opportunity to HS. Sure, it becomes less rage efficient, but more haste still results in more rage available within the same period of time doing DPS and thus an increase in DPS beyond merely increase in white damage.

Admittedly however this is a better argument for hit rating. How rage availability change based on haste rating is unclear at least in my own experiments since it doesn't come in smoothly unlike having a lot of hit rating.

But yeah, get yourself a red belt of battle and leave this to BE ret pallies.

Comment by MrTea

god why do u deny the truth of crit rating being a more essential stat to dps warrs than haste!

Comment by darkrain

I will be the first to admit this is a very powerful BE ret pally belt (epic stats for that roll). That said, BE ret paladins make up a quite small % of the plate wearing DPS (horde only, a single race, generaly only one per raid at max), so I hope the elf paladins here can excuse the *!@#ed off warriors and alliance paladins =) This (and the other badge gear) for the most part works with a minority of the playerbase, and while its great that they are giving something to that group of players, it really wouldn't be hard to add a second version of each item that has half decent stats for the majority.

Comment by tonyis3l33t

I see this as an OT piece of gear. stam for when u need to take a hit, and the str/haste to assist with hate gains when rage generation is low.