Would someone mind posting a screen shot from Google Maps or location coordinates? It would make understanding the logistics of moving the locomotive a bit clearer. I tried to find it using clues garnered from the conversation, but alas, no suck luck. Thanks.

Martin

co614

Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:39 am

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pmPosts: 1607Location: Pottstown,Pa.

Let's make this easy to comprehend. I'll wager up to $ 10,000.00 and give 5:1 odds that the 643 is still where it presently sits 24 months from now, and 3:1 odds that it is still where it presently sits 60 months from now.

If anyone is interested in taking any part of the other side please PM me and we'll make appropriate arrangements.

Thank you, Ross Rowland

Alexander D. Mitchell IV

Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:56 am

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pmPosts: 8395Location: Baltimore, MD

Charlie wrote:

Guess the one unanswered question is where would you take it to?

No, this raises other equally pertinent questions:

Will CSX agree to movement over that short stretch AND cutting a main and re-welding it for this movement?

Can they come up with what I assure you (based on past dealings) will be a major sum demanded by CSX to cut the track and move that loco 1/2 mile or so--a sum that I for one predict will be preposterously exorbitant just to make you go away and call truck and crane companies, or lay "snap track" down Nichols Street/Avenue, instead?

EDM

Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:02 pm

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:54 amPosts: 798Location: NJ

I usually don't look at 'Railfanning', it reads too much like Foamer.net, but my son tipped me off to this thread last evening. After reading what looks like several hundred posts, I have but two questions.

First, as many have pointed out, where is this engine going to run? Like the PRR T-1 under construction, one bit at a time, options for operation are very limited, especially on larger railroads. The days of Reading Rambles, High Iron Steam Safaris, the NS and Southern steam programs, etc. are history.

Second, 'Steel City' (or Len) asked Ross about the real condition of RDG T-1 2101. What does 2101 have to do with this conversation? Unless I have been living under a rock the last 35 years or so, I wasn't aware that Ross had any involvement with the 2101.

I wish I had an answer, a way to save this engine, but really don't have anything new to add here. A very sad situation-

EDM

Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:34 pm

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:54 amPosts: 798Location: NJ

Well, Mr. Shaner, you have tipped your hand once again. I know we have had this discussion before. My initials, which I use here, are EDM, like Echo Delta Mike. Several other times in the past you have addressed me by the initials of a locomotive builder.

With respect to 2101, I do not live under a rock. After the fire, Ross traded the 2101 for the 614,and 2101 went to the B&O Museum. I doubt if he owned it for the 20 years that you state, and may not have even owned it at all. Does the name Sam Freeman mean anything to you?

And your own posted link tells the story of Ross and AFT; pulled out of the scrapyard for the Freedom Train, the fire, and then being presented to the Museum in 1979. Hardly twenty years-

Last edited by EDM on Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Alexander D. Mitchell IV

Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:35 pm

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pmPosts: 8395Location: Baltimore, MD

Okay, I stand corrected.

An associate of mine from the area has pointed out to me a pertinent fact off-forum: The interchange siding between the P&OC (or PA&McKR, whatever) that services that industrial part of McKees Rock DOES extend down to Chamber Street, where a buffer stop can be seen in Google Earth Pro.

The distance from that buffer stop to the rear of 643's tender is about 425 feet, according to Google Earth Pro. This is readily filled by panel track, assuming all the other ducks are line up properly.

So, assuming (and that's dangerous) that CSX has no say whatsoever over that track, it appears that CSX can go suck an egg, as the saying goes. Now, the rest of it all is still another matter--including the condition of said siding, costs, destination, etc.

Alexander D. Mitchell IV

Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:46 pm

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pmPosts: 8395Location: Baltimore, MD

Steel City wrote:

EMD, I referred to you as EMD because your screen name is EMD. And I’m not, Mr. Shaner. I have already told my real name on this thread. Further more if you take notice I spell my words correctly.

Attachment:

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rem1028

Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:47 pm

Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:32 amPosts: 56

Except that furthermore is one word, not two, and you don't seem to know the correct use of commas, and HIS SCREEN NAME IS EDM. Also no one calls Len "Mr. Shaner" but Len. I guess you're just another one of the voices in Len's head like Joe Conrad or James Quay. Six years of high school must make you an engineering expert too.

EDM

Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:15 pm

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:54 amPosts: 798Location: NJ

I am NOT posting my birth certificate here to prove that my initials and the screen name that I use here match my given name. Len, Lackawanna 565, whomever, please learn to read!

rem1028

Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:20 pm

Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:32 amPosts: 56

It equals 2/10 or 1/5, Lennyboy. Also, it's "then", not "than".

Last edited by rem1028 on Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rem1028

Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:22 pm

Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:32 amPosts: 56

Says the 47 year old man who still lives at home and has spent most of those years unemployed.

Charlie

Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:56 pm

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:27 amPosts: 390Location: Winters, TX

Just noticed that the Pittsburgh & Ohio Central runs all the way down to Arden and right by the Pennsylvania Trolley Museum and the Washington County fairgrounds. Seems like either of those places would make a good display site for the 643.

G. W. Laepple

Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:54 pm

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:10 pmPosts: 956

Taking a closer look at Google Maps, I believe the actual point of interchange between the P&OC and CSXT is some distance to the west of this alleged interchange, beyond the end of Nichols Avenue. All the trackage visible appears to be industrial track serving several industries, including McKees Rocks Forging, Penn Waste and Cargill Salt. While both railroads may connect through one or more of these industrial sites, it would be quite unusual for them to make interchange in this manner. Therefore, I am willing to bet my hat that the track alluded to above is NOT an interchange, but rather an industrial switching lead owned by CSX. What Mr. Steel City proposes is not impossible engineering; rather, it is impossible dreaming.

I was giving Steel City the benefit of a lingering doubt until he made his signature error of referring to my former sergeant as 'EMD' and refusing to correct it. I am also fairly certain that no rational person who was aware of the history of the submersible B6 would tolerate being mistaken for its advocate unless he was in fact its advocate.

Having said that, the discussing the idea of moving the 643 is an intriguing exercise as was contemplating the raising of the steam powered submarine from the quarry. Now would everybody please try to play nice and remember two things: 1. there is quite a bit of dreaming in this business because that is how nearly everything begins; and 2. that while it is difficult to win an argument with an intelligent person it is damned near impossible to win one with a fool.

GME

Last edited by Trainlawyer on Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Alexander D. Mitchell IV

Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:09 pm

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pmPosts: 8395Location: Baltimore, MD

G. W. Laepple wrote:

Taking a closer look at Google Maps, I believe the actual point of interchange between the P&OC and CSXT is some distance to the west of this alleged interchange, beyond the end of Nichols Avenue.

According to the 4-17-2016 Google Earth view, the actual switch from the main line track to the siding is just south of the large two-span road bridge (Pa. Rt. 51) over the line.

The 4-17-2016 Google Earth view also shows what appears to the experienced railfan eye to be a CSX EMD loco/road slug combo coupled to two loaded gondolas a couple hundred feet north of the road span, locos on the south end. (The giveaway is the white cab roofs with air conditioner boxes.)

The P&OC, at last report, only rosters a rebuilt chopnose GP9, two SW1500's, and an SW1200RS, all with gray roofs.

The interchange is wherever whatever formal agreements SAY it is. There's little doubt in my mind, however, that absent proper access or a verbally-expressed willingness to "look the other way" on the part of local CSX officials combined with a four-in-the-morning move, Brother Laepple's assessment is likely to be correct. (I've only been a pain in his side for over thirty years by now.)

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