It doesn't mean that the person using either "gamer", "bookworm", "cinephile" or whatever is trying to define him/herself by their favorite activity.

That's the connotation the word "gamer" currently has, though. When you say someone is a gamer, it's usually not understood as just being someone who likes games and has an interest in the industry. It implies that they play video games "excessively" compared to the norm.

Which is the way I used the expression. Not as a "merit badge" as I said but simply to denote the degree to wich one dedicates to a given hobby. It doesn't mean that the person using either "gamer", "bookworm", "cinephile" or whatever is trying to define him/herself by their favorite activity.

Well, they are, it's just a matter of degree as you say (the term cinephile is particularly strong and implies a potentially negative extreme). For instance, I'd say I'm a gamer because I've been playing them my almost whole life, play them basically on a daily basis in some form, and will continue to do so. On the other hand, I'm not exactly on the cutting edge of the industry (playing Diablo II, or FF7 on my phone =). That's why I'm surprised how strongly Walter feels about the word considering he's far more the, uh... gamesman than I am. And I definitely mean that in a sense of credibility and authenticity, not someone dressing up like a human Nintendo as part of their purported lifestyle or something (sometimes more is clearly less, there's a difference between being an animal lover and being into bestiality after all =).

That's the connotation the word "gamer" currently has, though. When you say someone is a gamer, it's usually not understood as just being someone who likes games and has an interest in the industry. It implies that they play video games "excessively" compared to the norm.

I still think a lot of it is in the eye of the beholder, or more importantly the context or setting the word is used. For instance, in real life I think anybody that owns a system and regularly plays it for fun could be called a "gamer" without any stigma attached ("one who plays games"), whereas online, on this board for instance, playing games almost goes without saying. So, to be a "gamer" on the Internet actually means you're some kind of degenerate gamer, like the difference between a guy who loves going to vegas and someone with a destructive gambling problem. Basically, the kind of guys that are prime candidates to die of heart failure at an Internet cafe after a 72 hour WoW binge, not people that love video games as part of their normal lives.

I'll take "gamer" over "geek" and "nerd" any day if only because it has a lot less of a negative connotation. It's worth considering it's also a whole subculture at this point and it kind of needs to be named something. Plus our society has a habit of short-handing anything it can. Rather than say "oh they play videos games" people will likely gravitate towards "they're a gamer."

edit: I will admit that the word itself just sounds weird to my ears though.

I still think a lot of it is in the eye of the beholder, or more importantly the context or setting the word is used. For instance, in real life I think anybody that owns a system and regularly plays it for fun could be called a "gamer" without any stigma attached ("one who plays games"), whereas online, on this board for instance, playing games almost goes without saying. So, to be a "gamer" on the Internet actually means you're some kind of degenerate gamer, like the difference between a guy who loves going to vegas and someone with a destructive gambling problem. Basically, the kind of guys that are prime candidates to die of heart failure at an Internet cafe after a 72 hour WoW binge, not people that love video games as part of their normal lives.

Well I'm mostly talking from a real world perspective and how it's perceived by the average people. Obviously the context is all-important here, as different social groups would perceive it in different ways. But for example I don't think the word "cinephile" carries a negative connotation compared to "gamer", mostly because movies are pretty much universal while video games aren't there quite yet, and also because watching movies can be considered a cultural activity, while playing games is hardly ever recognized as such.

I'll take "gamer" over "geek" and "nerd" any day if only because it has a lot less of a negative connotation.

I think there tends to be an association between those, though. Unless you're a fratboy exclusively playing Modern Warfare and sports games, telling people you're a gamer is likely to identify you as a nerd as well.

Well I'm mostly talking from a real world perspective and how it's perceived by the average people.

Mmmmm, that's where I have the opposite experience, where I feel like the average person doesn't really care; most of the people that have a strong opinion one way or another would be game, er... players. Actually, most average people I know (maybe I'm not categorizing them correctly =) wouldn't think there was anything of it ("one who plays games" a category more and more average people fall into).

Obviously the context is all-important here, as different social groups would perceive it in different ways. But for example I don't think the word "cinephile" carries a negative connotation compared to "gamer", mostly because movies are pretty much universal while video games aren't there quite yet, and also because watching movies can be considered a cultural activity, while playing games is hardly ever recognized as such.

Well, this is where I feel like it mostly comes down to some sort of gaming vs other mediums inferiority complex and old fashioned shame, which is only exacerbated by the most shameless of dorks going obnoxiously far in the other direction (LOUD AND PROUD - GOT NOTHING ELSE GOING ON!). So, more self-aware individuals that have put a lot of time and effort into games would be more sensitive to that negative connotation because that's how they're afraid of being perceived; the more one's into it, the more one would be sensitive to it.

I think there tends to be an association between those, though. Unless you're a fratboy exclusively playing Modern Warfare and sports games, telling people you're a gamer is likely to identify you as a nerd as well.

Exactly. These guys don't care if you call them gamers or not because... they aren't. =) Whereas, I would say you and I definitely are if the word has ANY objective meaning, and with nothing to be ashamed of. Well, except for all times I basically chose playing games over friends, family, and sleep (but I'm not).

Well, this is where I feel like it mostly comes down to some sort of gaming vs other mediums inferiority complex and old fashioned shame, which is only exacerbated by the most shameless of dorks going obnoxiously far in the other direction (LOUD AND PROUD - GOT NOTHING ELSE GOING ON!). So, more self-aware individuals that have put a lot of time and effort into games would be more sensitive to that negative connotation because that's how they're afraid of being perceived; the more one's into it, the more one would be sensitive to it.

I don't know, the way I see it, the word itself was born from those obnoxious guys you mention trying to turn the tables and empower themselves by creating a sort of subculture that revolves around a hobby, and is now being used in a variety of ways by a variety of people. Not unlike the word "geek", actually (which I dislike, as a matter of fact, though I quite like "nerd").

Now, without going nearly as far as you did about being ashamed and not wanting to be perceived badly by others, it could also simply be that one has a negative perception of a particular subculture (say, "anime fans" for example), and doesn't want to associate themselves with it despite having similar interests. Sticking to that example, I don't label myself an anime fan, even though I've been admin of a forum dedicated to a manga for almost 10 years. And it's not because of social stigma, but I just don't think of myself like that.

Anyway, I don't want to ramble on for too long, but this discussion has gotten way more interesting than the original topic of this thread. =)

You know Aazealh, you raise a really interesting point, personally I liken it to music. Certain subcultures rise and then fall because it's human nature to divide ourselves into groups and then point them against other groups. Take music: I was a kid in the late 90's, and the record stores I frequented were filled with people who had turned on grunge music even though I still loved it. Nirvana was cool when they were on SubPop, as soon as they signed to Geffen they were sell outs and it wasn't cool to like them anymore. Alice in Chains, Blind Melon, Nirvana etc. were no longer dark and edgy, but suddenly selfish bastards who glorified drug culture and paid the price. We're still on that trend, 80's styles and music are coming back and 90's stuff is on the decline. Do I suddenly throw away my Nevermind T-Shirt and go buy a Decemberists one? No, it isn't authentic to who I am. So what if jerks at a record store, an anime/videogame forum, or whatever try to hassle you and portray as stupid or somehow inferior. You enjoy the things you enjoy, why let others take it away from you?

I think that's a different topic though, here we were talking about people labeling themselves in certain ways or not depending on their perception of the label itself, while you're talking about someone who would actually change their tastes (or pretend to) depending on what's currently "hip", which is what we call a hipster.

I understand what you're saying, I don't think I conveyed my point properly. Right now, I think that hipsters are into videogames. When I was a teenager, you were a pariah is you were into 16/32 bit era gaming. There was a level plain on which "gamers" and "otakus" (and even that word isn't "hip" these days among anime fans) resided. Suddenly, videogames are a mainstream phenomenon and gamers seem to feel their label has superseded another. So I don't know, I guess I meant gamers=80's keyboard music, ironic 80's throwback clothes, etc. anime fans = flannel t-shirts and distortion effects pedals.

I don't know, the way I see it, the word itself was born from those obnoxious guys you mention trying to turn the tables and empower themselves by creating a sort of subculture that revolves around a hobby, and is now being used in a variety of ways by a variety of people. Not unlike the word "geek", actually (which I dislike, as a matter of fact, though I quite like "nerd").

Well, in any case, I think it should be properly re-appropriated. I understand not wanting to be labeled or stereotyped, but then we shouldn't care much either if we're above that, and it's ridiculous to have to use a bunch of stilted language to get a simple idea across when a single word should do. I'd be more upset at the guys that are using the word that way than disliking the word itself; otherwise, it's playing into and supporting that extreme definition rather than normalizing it.

Now, without going nearly as far as you did about being ashamed and not wanting to be perceived badly by others, it could also simply be that one has a negative perception of a particular subculture (say, "anime fans" for example), and doesn't want to associate themselves with it despite having similar interests.

Good point, it might also just be different here than on the East coast, Paris, or the Internet in general. Like I said, nobody cares here in my experience, it's no worse than friendly use of the word nerd. So, where I come from, in every sense of the word, its a bit defensive and oversensitive to care about the word beyond it's most basic meaning. I also think I'm personally less sensitive because I'm less the enthusiast, to the point its almost a compliment; I'm not even deserving (this is probably why I abuse myself with shit like Diablo III; low gaming self-esteem, "It's not your fault" =) Conversely, I think the stronger the association to gaming, the more one might otherwise downplay it so as not to cross into that negative territory.

Sticking to that example, I don't label myself an anime fan, even though I've been admin of a forum dedicated to a manga for almost 10 years. And it's not because of social stigma, but I just don't think of myself like that.

Same here, but it's a very specific and somewhat unusual example. Technically, it's also a contradiction, explainable if you believe the work transcends the medium; otherwise, we're just the biggest fanboys of them all.

Well, in any case, I think it should be properly re-appropriated. I understand not wanting to be labeled or stereotyped, but then we shouldn't care much either if we're above that, and it's ridiculous to have to use a bunch of stilted language to get a simple idea across when a single word should do. I'd be more upset at the guys that are using the word that way than disliking the word itself; otherwise, it's playing into and supporting that extreme definition rather than normalizing it.

That's a noble intent, but when a word starts being used globally in a certain way, it's not easy to change it. That being said, I'm sure as time goes by it'll take on a less connoted meaning. I think it's already been the case since its introduction, as a matter of fact.

Good point, it might also just be different here than on the East coast, Paris, or the Internet in general. Like I said, nobody cares here in my experience, it's no worse than friendly use of the word nerd. So, where I come from, in every sense of the word, its a bit defensive and oversensitive to care about the word beyond it's most basic meaning.

Yeah I think the context matters a lot, like I said in a previous post. And sure enough, I don't really care myself beyond the semantic discussion.

That's a noble intent, but when a word starts being used globally in a certain way, it's not easy to change it. That being said, I'm sure as time goes by it'll take on a less connoted meaning. I think it's already been the case since its introduction, as a matter of fact.

I don't have any magic words that get me upset. Unless someone intentionally insults me, I don't care all that much what words they choose to express themselves. This thread was entertaining to read though EPIC THREAD!