With a diamond shank, it has always been a bulldog. With a round shank, it has always been a rhodesian. That rule counts in every country

Brian, that's the new American definition since 2008.
Here is ample evidence that that it is a very recent renaming that changed the shape names and makes the naming inconsistent with the traditional British pipe makers.viewtopic.php?f=20&t=35521&p=900009#p900009

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I must be half American then, or something weird. Nobody here in Denmark would ever call it a rhodesian

Your point eg "With a diamond shank, it has always been a bulldog. With a round shank, it has always been a rhodesian. That rule counts in every country" was just falsified. It's a misunderstanding. AFAIK the Brits haven't changed their naming and that's the tradition still. But there is a story on the American side and it's actually told in pipe writeups on Smokingpipes.

The Americans are dominant on the web and esp. on things concerning pipes. We're all American now. But some of us think that we really shouldn't give in quite so easily to editing out a tradition esp. when it's still alive and active. We can live with both and that preserves the tradition and acknowledges the American desire to redefine things for us. There is always a risk that we forget or define away our own traditions and we should never give into that.

Last edited by Rusty on Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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I have never heard of that until now, and I find it very surprising. But, did Dunhill set the full standard on shape naming back then, or did they just invent their own system?

You will notice that it wasn't just Dunhill. From looking at old catalogs it appears that this is much larger than Dunhill. That was the shape naming for the Brits. The Rhodesian very likely was created out of the Bulldog but they did and do distinguish the shapes and it has nothing to do with the shank configuration.

You're out of the woods
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Step into the sun
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That is weird, because the shank is really the only thing that set the shapes apart. I can easily understand why the shape names were changed

That's exactly the American argument. But in fact that's not true. You've adopted the American redefinition and you're thinking in terms of that. You were just telling me that it has always been the definition. I provided evidence that this is not true. I think the shapes and their names pre-date Dunhill, but they're very likely British, so Dunhill probably didn't define the shapes, the names or the tradition. Dunhill was late on the scene actually. But these old pipe making companies are a link to our shared traditions. We never saw ISO/ANSI or any other standards body take on pipes and standardize anything. This is all from the 19th century. The really nice thing is that there is something more to learn about our shared traditions.

We lost an articulate historian for pipes and shapes in Jacques Cole who passed away in 2014. But I'll bet he would have something to say. When a Canadian tells you to be cautious about accepting everything the Americans tell us you should listen. As if a European needs to reminded of that! But you have been reminded.

You're out of the woods
You're out of the dark
You're out of the night
Step into the sun
Step into the light

That is weird, because the shank is really the only thing that set the shapes apart. I can easily understand why the shape names were changed

That's exactly the American argument. But in fact that's not true. You've adopted the American redefinition and you're thinking in terms of that. You were just telling me that it has always been the definition. I provided evidence that this is not true. I think the shapes and their names pre-date Dunhill, but they're very likely British, so Dunhill probably didn't define the shapes, the names or the tradition. Dunhill was late on the scene actually. But these old pipe making companies are a link to our shared traditions. We never saw ISO/ANSI or any other standards body take on pipes and standardize anything. This is all from the 19th century. The really nice thing is that there is something more to learn about our shared traditions.

We lost an articulate historian for pipes and shapes in Jacques Cole who passed away in 2014. But I'll bet he would have something to say. When a Canadian tells you to be cautious about accepting everything the Americans tell us you should listen. As if a European needs to reminded of that! But you have been reminded.

What if an Irishman tells you to be cautious about a Canadian telling you to be cautious about accepting everything the Americans tell you? I think I might be cautious. And I'm not sure Rusty's Canadian. I'd be cautious there. All we have is his word for it.

2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017 Winner of the CPS Award: "Most Likely to be Found Without Pants at Any Given Moment"

You'd probably be wise to avoid naming any of your own, unique shapes a "Filioque," Brian. At least not here.
I have a Tinsky freehand coming that I think I'll call a turned stem, black & tan Filioque just to see what happens.

Regardless, your Bulldesian is just plain gorgeous.

. . . be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you. Ephesians 4:32 (NKJV)

The most improper job of any man, even saints, is bossing other men. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity.. J.R.R. Tolkien