2012-2013 Sharks Roster analysis

You love to criticize other people, but never offer your own solutions.

Do you really believe this team is still going to win the cup? When they don't, will you blame bad luck, injuries, and reffing? Or will you actually look at the real issues and offer up what to do about it?

Who predicted we would trade for Winnik and Galiardi? Some wanted us to get Burns and I agreed that would be a great target, but never thought it would happen. I tend to have opinions on things that happen. Once in a great while I'll chime in on things that may happen, but mostly it's a waste of time. To say I "never" offer solutions is hyperbole.

Why would I offer a solution about coaching when I don't think that is our main problem? I think it's on the bottom of the list and I also think it is not going to happen next year regardless of this years outcome.

As far as the Cup? I think we have a shot if the team continues to play like last night, we get healthy and the new players gel.

I can't assess the results until, you know, it actually happens.

EDIT: Want some immediate ideas? Get White off the ice. Bang the cobwebs out of Clowes head. Get Couture, Murray and Havlat back on the ice. I give up on Marleau being consistent, so that's not worth mentioning

I don't agree with clean house. TM is better than many at dealing with star players. A rookie coach would get runover by JT; it wouldn't be pretty. TM had Detroit credentials when he started so it isn't the same as a pure rookie coach. TM is one of the best on neutral zone and entry offense and very good PP. He needs PK, defensive and breakout help. TM is a very good personality fit for the Sharks (getting whatever message across), he just needs strategic help.

Yep, I think we need a real assistant coach to handle the D to help TMac in these very issues.

No idea who the candidates are - Hedican?, Blake?, Gary Suter (if it helps in getting his nephew!), ??

Who predicted we would trade for Winnik and Galiardi? Some wanted us to get Burns and I agreed that would be a great target, but never thought it would happen. I tend to have opinions on things that happen. Once in a great while I'll chime in on things that may happen, but mostly it's a waste of time. To say I "never" offer solutions is hyperbole.

Why would I offer a solution about coaching when I don't think that is our main problem? I think it's on the bottom of the list and I also think it is not going to happen next year regardless of this years outcome.

As far as the Cup? I think we have a shot if the team continues to play like last night, we get healthy and the new players gel.

I can't assess the results until, you know, it actually happens.

EDIT: Want some immediate ideas? Get White off the ice. Bang the cobwebs out of Clowes head. Get Couture, Murray and Havlat back on the ice. I give up on Marleau being consistent, so that's not worth mentioning

The difference here it seems is that you are an optimist, I am not. I don't think the Sharks have a shot in hell at a cup right now. I think, on paper, this roster should be able to get it done, but they are not.

Were the season over today, and the Sharks were done, and there were no more 'what if' arguments to be made... what do you say then? I'm simply saying that now.

I don't think Tmac is a terrible coach, he isn't. He's just average (maybe above average) but certainly not great. Is it possible he will get better? Absolutely, he's a very young coach. Do we have time to wait for that? It's a hell of a gamble. As others have said, at the very least, the team needs to bring in top end assistant coaches to help Todd. He has some good qualities (as Easy pointed out) but he is weak in fundamental tactics and team preparation.

I certainly hope I'm wrong, and the Sharks win the cup, but I literally can not picture that. I hope when we die we go to heaven too, but I don't believe that either.

The difference here it seems is that you are an optimist, I am not. I don't think the Sharks have a shot in hell at a cup right now. I think, on paper, this roster should be able to get it done, but they are not.

Were the season over today, and the Sharks were done, and there were no more 'what if' arguments to be made... what do you say then? I'm simply saying that now.

I don't think Tmac is a terrible coach, he isn't. He's just average (maybe above average) but certainly not great. Is it possible he will get better? Absolutely, he's a very young coach. Do we have time to wait for that? It's a hell of a gamble. As others have said, at the very least, the team needs to bring in top end assistant coaches to help Todd. He has some good qualities (as Easy pointed out) but he is weak in fundamental tactics and team preparation.

I certainly hope I'm wrong, and the Sharks win the cup, but I literally can not picture that. I hope when we die we go to heaven too, but I don't believe that either.

And you and others blamed the assistants for the PK. I said it was a system decision made by DW and Todd. They changed it and the problem was solved. I am not convinced it's an assistant coach problem, but I don't think they are as important as you and others seem to think, therefore I am obviously not opposed to changing them, since it likely won't make a big difference. Unless of course they don't gel with Tmac. That could cause problems.

If the season ended today I would say we waited to long to make deadline trade deals. I would say we were too injured. I would say the team lost confidence in their game at exactly the wrong time.

Sorry, but I've seen what this team is capable of and losing right now is more on them than the system or the coaches that employ it. The teams fate lies mostly with the players and the hockey gods at this point.

The difference here it seems is that you are an optimist, I am not. I don't think the Sharks have a shot in hell at a cup right now. I think, on paper, this roster should be able to get it done, but they are not.

Were the season over today, and the Sharks were done, and there were no more 'what if' arguments to be made... what do you say then? I'm simply saying that now.

I don't think Tmac is a terrible coach, he isn't. He's just average (maybe above average) but certainly not great. Is it possible he will get better? Absolutely, he's a very young coach. Do we have time to wait for that? It's a hell of a gamble. As others have said, at the very least, the team needs to bring in top end assistant coaches to help Todd. He has some good qualities (as Easy pointed out) but he is weak in fundamental tactics and team preparation.

I certainly hope I'm wrong, and the Sharks win the cup, but I literally can not picture that. I hope when we die we go to heaven too, but I don't believe that either.

Man, you're a buzzkill! Let them play the season out. We're all frustrated b/c we can see a better outcome but to react in such an absolute, definitive and negative way is extreme. The Sharks have shown many positive signs the past couple games, even with significant injuries, that that's encouraging.

I say it'd be easier on your head if you just eased up and let them play. Who knows, they may surprise you. But maybe you're just preparing yourself for the worst.

Anyhow, you keep saying fire TMac. Why don't you take it a step further and suggest some alternatives? Just saying Fire the Coach without suggesting a plan (i.e., candidates) is sort of the same as trying to call LZ out for not offering "anything constructive".

And you and others blamed the assistants for the PK. I said it was a system decision made by DW and Todd. They changed it and the problem was solved. I am not convinced it's an assistant coach problem, but I don't think they are as important as you and others seem to think, therefore I am obviously not opposed to changing them since it likely won't make a big difference. Unless of course they don't gel with Tmac. That could cause problems.

If the season ended today I would say we waited to long to make deadline trade deals. I would say we were too injured. I would say the team lost confidence in their game at exactly the wrong time.

Sorry, but I've seen what this team is capable of and losing is more on them than the system or the coaches that employ it. The teams fate lies mostly with the players and the hockey gods at this point.

So we differ in our opinions. I don't totally disagree with yours, I just am not a big fan of 'hockey gods' type arguments. It's what I call not being accountable.

Man, you're a buzzkill! Let them play the season out. We're all frustrated b/c we can see a better outcome but to react in such an absolute, definitive and negative way is extreme. The Sharks have shown many positive signs the past couple games, even with significant injuries, that that's encouraging.

I say it'd be easier on your head if you just eased up and let them play. Who knows, they may surprise you. But maybe you're just preparing yourself for the worst.

Anyhow, you keep saying fire TMac. Why don't you take it a step further and suggest some alternatives? Just saying Fire the Coach without suggesting a plan (i.e., candidates) is sort of the same as trying to call LZ out for not offering "anything constructive".

That's not my intention. I don't think the Sharks will miss the playoffs (I think there's an off-chance, which is pretty sad in itself) but I simply don't picture them going deep.

I did suggest some alternatives, but I don't have a firm grasp on all of the up and coming coaches out there because I do not get an opportunity to watch non nhl games.

I think Todd will be a good coach one day, but I don't think he's ready to be coaching a cup champion. Perhaps with some very experienced assistants he'd be much better off, I don't know. What I'm saying is the biggest issues we have are coaching issues. If you think it's Todd, fine, if you think its Shaw and Woodcroft, fine. I'm just not willing to blame the players at this point.

And you and others blamed the assistants for the PK. I said it was a system decision made by DW and Todd. They changed it and the problem was solved. I am not convinced it's an assistant coach problem, but I don't think they are as important as you and others seem to think, therefore I am obviously not opposed to changing them since it likely won't make a big difference. Unless of course they don't gel with Tmac. That could cause problems.

If the season ended today I would say we waited to long to make deadline trade deals. I would say we were too injured. I would say the team lost confidence in their game at exactly the wrong time.

Sorry, but I've seen what this team is capable of and losing right now is more on them than the system or the coaches that employ it. The teams fate lies mostly with the players and the hockey gods at this point.

At the outset of the season, the coaches gave the PK to Mitchell and Handzus to coach. Published comment by TM. When it was tanking, the coaches stepped in. I assume Shaw because it is usually the defensive coach and it was published. Last year the PK was under Yawney and Woodcroft as published. DW is not running the PK. Latest published comment was that they have gone to a generic PK. Ultimately, it is TM's decision, but they have told us over time who specifically has been responsible.

Initially, I saw it when they went to a generic box. I saw a diamond against an umbrella very briefly (a game or two). And since then, I have seen some 1-1-2 where the box goes 1-1-2 when the PP overloads. The recent 1-1-2's have been burned a bit when the opposition shifts there overload to umbrella on the fly and the Sharks don't have time to re-adjust.

So we differ in our opinions. I don't totally disagree with yours, I just am not a big fan of 'hockey gods' type arguments. It's what I call not being accountable.

What I don't do is mock your opinions with silly smiles like

I don't put a lot of weight in results on the hockey gods, but they've been known to play a roll. See stanchion last year

And if you would have posted today in this thread what you posted last night instead of in the GDT right after a loss I probably wouldn't have used the smileys I did. This all seemed like a knee jerk reaction from you and you carried it on to this thread today. Reread my posts and assume I didn't use them

At the outset of the season, the coaches gave the PK to Mitchell and Handzus to coach. Published comment by TM. When it was tanking, the coaches stepped in. I assume Shaw because it is usually the defensive coach and it was published. Last year the PK was under Yawney and Woodcroft as published. DW is not running the PK. Latest published comment was that they have gone to a generic PK. Ultimately, it is TM's decision, but they have told us over time who specifically has been responsible.

Initially, I saw it when they went to a generic box. I saw a diamond against an umbrella very briefly (a game or two). And since then, I have seen some 1-1-2 where the box goes 1-1-2 when the PP overloads. The recent 1-1-2's have been burned a bit when the opposition shifts there overload to umbrella on the fly and the Sharks don't have time to re-adjust.

When something is as consistently awful as our PK was, if you don't think DW and Todd talked strategy I don't know what to tell you. I also don't think Shaw became a PK genius overnight. There was a reason they stuck to that system for as long as they did. We just don't know for sure why.

When something is as consistently awful as our PK was, if you don't think DW and Todd talked strategy I don't know what to tell you. I also don't think Shaw became a PK genius overnight. There was a reason they stuck to that system for as long as they did. We just don't know for sure why.

DW and TM may have talked it, but the primary responsibility was clearly laid out in the press. What you were saying was contrary to what was publicly laid out. I don't know which coach is calling the shots now as I stated, but the primary responsibility was taken from the players and given back to all or someone on the staff.

I don't put a lot of weight in results on the hockey gods, but they've been known to play a roll. See stanchion last year

And if you would have posted today in this thread what you posted last night instead of in the GDT right after a loss I probably wouldn't have used the smileys I did. This all seemed like a knee jerk reaction from you and you carried it on to this thread today. Reread my posts and assume I didn't use them

It wasn't a knee jerk reaction, I've been saying this same stuff for months, win or lose. Obviously I don't make as many comments about it while we are winning (because it annoys the hell out of people). And I give credit where it's due, the PK has improved a lot, but I think thats mostly because of what Easy said, Tmac finally stepped in. If anything, that gives credence to getting rid of the assistant coaches.

DW and TM may have talked it, but the primary responsibility was clearly laid out in the press. What you were saying was contrary to what was publicly laid out. I don't know which coach is calling the shots now as I stated, but the primary responsibility was taken from the players and given back to all or someone on the staff.

Provide links, because I don't believe it. I think you're making more out of what was said than what was there.

EDIT: I also believe you and some others said the assistants were drawing up plays on PK timeouts when I showed it was clearly Todd that was drawing up plays under those circumstances afterwards.

At the outset of the season, the coaches gave the PK to Mitchell and Handzus to coach. Published comment by TM. When it was tanking, the coaches stepped in. I assume Shaw because it is usually the defensive coach and it was published. Last year the PK was under Yawney and Woodcroft as published. DW is not running the PK. Latest published comment was that they have gone to a generic PK. Ultimately, it is TM's decision, but they have told us over time who specifically has been responsible.

Initially, I saw it when they went to a generic box. I saw a diamond against an umbrella very briefly (a game or two). And since then, I have seen some 1-1-2 where the box goes 1-1-2 when the PP overloads. The recent 1-1-2's have been burned a bit when the opposition shifts there overload to umbrella on the fly and the Sharks don't have time to re-adjust.

Is it normal for teams to let players coach a PK? Talk about picking the wrong 2 players. I hope DW & TMac recognize the mistake and hire a real defensive assistant coach.

Easy, I know you made the point that the Sharks have never bought a player out but I'd counter that and say Niity and McLaren were effectively treated the same, just stashed in the AHL for the last year of their contracts, yet the Sharks still had to pay their salary. In McLaren's case, I don't think the Sharks could risk buying him out b/c they lacked cap space.

Since Zus has an NMC, the Sharks couldn't stash him in Worcester (without his blessing) so a buyout is their only option. I think the Sharks will think long and hard about buying him out.

Is it normal for teams to let players coach a PK? Talk about picking the wrong 2 players. I hope DW & TMac recognize the mistake and hire a real defensive assistant coach.

Easy, I know you made the point that the Sharks have never bought a player out but I'd counter that and say Niity and McLaren were effectively treated the same, just stashed in the AHL for the last year of their contracts, yet the Sharks still had to pay their salary. In McLaren's case, I don't think the Sharks could risk buying him out b/c they lacked cap space.

Since Zus has an NMC, the Sharks couldn't stash him in Worcester (without his blessing) so a buyout is their only option. I think the Sharks will think long and hard about buying him out.

I agree, its a unique situation (not injury related) and he's uniquely terrible. There is a reason they are putting him on the 4th line and limiting his minutes. It says 'we are done trying to babysit you'. Coming from this coaching staff (who insists on playing White in critical moments) that's a pretty damning statement.

I'm wondering if the death of Demitra has hit him like the crash hit Viznovsky (reportedly) and he's just not all there right now.

C'mon now...he has the best record of any coach in the last 3 years. This is silly.

He's got a hell of a team to work with. As I've said before. He's not a 'bad' coach, so he's not dragging them down, but he's not a great coach either.

That's why I'm not saying something like "A 3rd graded could coach this team and have that record" because that's not true. He's not stupid, he's not a bad coach, he's just above average. Not 'good enough' basically. Some people think new assistance alone will solve the problem, it's possible, but no one can know for sure. It also implies Tmac is willing to hire new assistant's and recognizes it as a problem, which we have no way of knowing. If he doesn't, and won't, then he should be replaced.

Is it normal for teams to let players coach a PK? Talk about picking the wrong 2 players. I hope DW & TMac recognize the mistake and hire a real defensive assistant coach.

Easy, I know you made the point that the Sharks have never bought a player out but I'd counter that and say Niity and McLaren were effectively treated the same, just stashed in the AHL for the last year of their contracts, yet the Sharks still had to pay their salary. In McLaren's case, I don't think the Sharks could risk buying him out b/c they lacked cap space.

Since Zus has an NMC, the Sharks couldn't stash him in Worcester (without his blessing) so a buyout is their only option. I think the Sharks will think long and hard about buying him out.

It's more normal for players to do PP on some teams. When the TM gave PK to Zeus and Mitchell, it was the first time that I heard of players doing PK although I know of some teams that give PK specialists heavy input. The Sharks gave PP to JT under RW.

I agree that the Sharks need a real defensive assistant. I don't think that a coach is living in the present day if he is advocating a passive defensive zone strategy which Shaw has. The passive strategy got killed when they expanded the offensive zones. The Sharks aren't entirely passive, but become so rapidly on scrambles.

It's more normal for players to do PP on some teams. When the TM gave PK to Zeus and Mitchell, it was the first time that I heard of players doing PK although I know of some teams that give PK specialists heavy input. The Sharks gave PP to JT under RW.

I agree that the Sharks need a real defensive assistant. I don't think that a coach is living in the present day if he is advocating a passive defensive zone strategy which Shaw has. The passive strategy got killed when they expanded the offensive zones. The Sharks aren't entirely passive, but become so rapidly on scrambles.

That, too, is an issue. I think Hedican calls them out on it and so does Drew. Other than White, we have the horses to stand up teams at the blue line. This isn't like 2005-06 when we had kids on the D.

I won't provide links to stuff that has already been linked this season. You need to pay attention to what Pollak writes.

I stand corrected. I still don't believe that they were solely responsible and if players really are in charge of a PK then you can't blame the assistants. You can blame Tmac for giving them the responsibility, but I don't believe that it's that simple. It's more of a coaching tactic to give players responsibility and hold them accountable. If the coach is allowing the players to chose the system, then yes, he should be fired.

Quote:

*****Finally, Handzus and Mitchell have been given extra responsibility for the team’s penalty kill unit as the Sharks look to improve on the 24th place finish of last season.
“It’s their team within a team,” McLellan said. “They’re in charge of it, they’re going to take the pulse.”

I stand corrected. I still don't believe that they were solely responsible and if players really are in charge of a PK then you can't blame the assistants. You can blame Tmac for giving them the responsibility, but I don't believe that it's that simple. It's more of a coaching tactic to give players responsibility and hold them accountable. If the coach is allowing the players to chose the system, then yes, he should be fired.

I stand corrected. I still don't believe that they were solely responsible and if players really are in charge of a PK then you can't blame the assistants. You can blame Tmac for giving them the responsibility, but I don't believe that it's that simple. It's more of a coaching tactic to give players responsibility and hold them accountable. If the coach is allowing the players to chose the system, then yes, he should be fired.

I am pretty sure they chose it. They were running a passive box across all 3 PK pairs. When the coaches stepped in, Pavs/Marleau was reunited and JP/PM were a little more aggressive on the box. It's the other two or three pairs where I am seeing passive box and 1-1-2. I was hoping to see a bit more playing around with diamond against umbrella PP's and otherwise aggressive box.