So recently, as some of you probably know, I've been spending a lot of my time trying to learn about sacred geometry, and the potential technology of the ancient Egyptians; stuff which is traditionally considered the domain of Freemasonry, among other groups or individuals.

Yet despite my recent adoption of the belief that such material is, by itself, morally neutral, (or actually biased slightly towards positive or harmonious use) I remaind steadfast in my previous conviction that Freemasonry is a fundamentally infernal organisation. I still remember hearing Richard Hoagland's emphatic claim to Kerry Cassidy that the Masons are, "the good guys." I had misgivings about that idea back then, which have only grown.

My main reason for believing that Freemasonry is evil, is very simple. The Masons cannot have it both ways. They cannot claim to be, or in fact be, fundamentally responsible for the course of human history on the one hand, and yet maintain the claim of being a benevolent organisation on the other. Given the nature of human history, particularly over the last 200 years, those two premises are completely irreconcilable.

If they are the directors of collective human destiny, as has been the continual implication, then why are we continually immersed in war? Why is our society defective and self-defeating at every possible level, to the point where we are threatened with extinction?

Let's hypothetically assume three concepts, here.

a} A benevolent group exists.b} This group has advanced, even intimate knowledge, of the fundamental organisational and constructive principles of the known universe.c} This group supposedly has (or is able to) used said knowledge to elevate itself to a position of total dominion over human life, in literally every known respect.

Assuming, hypothetically, that the above three statements were correct, then I would expect to see human civilisation organised along radically different, even diametrically opposing, lines, to what we observe today. I would not expect to see residential or commercial architecture be based around the rectangle, but around the shape of the pyramid, as such has been proven to be the most robust possible shape for a building. I would also expect to see engineering in general, follow an infinitely higher standard, to the point where human engineering processes would actually augment and positively reinforce the terrestrial environment, rather than working to destroy it.

What I propose, then, is that while premise b} and c} above are true, premise a} is not. That rather than being a benevolent or altruistically/compassionately oriented organisation, this group are, in fact, psychopaths of the very worst kind that humanity has been able to produce. I accuse Masonry of the following three crimes:-

a} That while having the level of knowledge of said harmonious organisational and architectural principles that they have, they have deliberately sought (with very close to complete success, I might add) to remove all access to, and knowledge of, said principles from the general human public.

b} That even further than this, they have specifically and deliberately sought to organise mainstream human society in a manner that is in direct opposition to said principles, thus largely ensuring its' annihilation.

c} That while they have organised and directed mainstream human society in such a manner that it is in direct opposition to the principles mentioned above, such that it would eventually destroy itself, they have maintained both knowledge and active use of said principles themselves, for their own exclusive aggrandisement, and to allow them to continue to subjugate and exploit the vast majority of humanity.

This is the first time that I have been able, when I look at it, to really consciously enunciate and provide myself with a truly concrete description of this conspiracy. This is, however, also the reason why I am motivated to learn as much about the principles that I believe that they have deliberately withheld from the human population, as I possibly can. I do not seek to learn such primarily for my own benefit; but I want to find a way, if such is possible, to also disclose said knowledge to anyone else who may be interested in it. I believe that such could be indescribably empowering and liberating for humanity as a whole.

it says in the wiki about him that he was scottish freemasonry. but it seems to me i had read he was like one of those hermetic golden dawn guys. now i don't want to go all pretzel shaped here because my aim is to understand all this without falling prey to its darker side, but i have a wee bit of commentary on this topic, as regards people like kerry and others, from the alternative news communities,which i believe are being driven at some level by the same group that is driving the mainstream, like different rooms in the same building.

for example notice in the following video, a gentleman discussing the sumerian enki, the formation of the solar system, the prior wars in the heavens, etc, from the perspective of his native american grandfather, who said he had received the data from an extra-terrestrial named "bekti". this resulted in the gentleman in the video, bringing out the story in the form of the "terra papers", a book covering this information. notice how he bad mouths the masons but also notice behind his head the big banner (give it a few seconds to play, as the first few seconds the sound is messed up) that says "hermetic revelation."

now when i see stuff like that, i immediately think, "a hermetic revelation, according to who?" is this just another room in the same building?

it says in the wiki about him that he was scottish freemasonry. but it seems to be i had read he was like one of those golden dawn guys.

The whole GD fiasco (at least re Crowley etc) was basically an occult version, of the sort of narcissistic politics you'd expect to see among a clique of girls in any secondary schoolyard.

I don't, personally, consider the GD to have been part of "the cabal," as such. Truthfully, I've never really been able to figure out exactly what their point was; they probably didn't know themselves. From what I've been able to read, Regardie basically ripped off Jewish mysticism, and combined that with an Egyptian sense of aesthetics, and the proverbial eleven secret herbs and spices, in order to create an old school version, of the type of self-help group that Wayne Dyer would probably be able to appreciate.

Then Uncle Al came along, trolled and caused drama with the GD authorities, and set about squirreling source, which resulted in the foundation of the AA/OTO.

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now i don't want to go all pretzel shaped here because my aim is to understand all this without falling prey to its darker side, but i have a wee bit of commentary on this topic, as regards people like kerry and others, from the alternative news communities,which i believe are being driven at some level by the same group that is driving the mainstream, like different rooms in the same building.

That wouldn't surprise me. Finding out the truth isn't Kerry's genuine motivation, from what I've seen. Going seriously Cookie Monster with narcissistic supply is. Interviewing equally psychiatrically questionable individuals (she even allows them to get a word in, occasionally) and posting it up on the Interwebs, is simply her chosen means to said end.

I get out of Project Camelot, roughly the same as what I do from reading /b/ on 4chan; but I recognise that /b/'s disclaimer applies equally to PC as well. "Only a fool would accept anything written here as the truth."

That does not mean, however, that in amongst the ocean of fecal matter, you won't occasionally find an isolated nugget of truth. Occasionally you will. It simply means not opening your mouth so wide, figuratively speaking, that all of the raw sewage flows into it, alongside the legitimate psycho-spiritual nutrition.

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notice how he bad mouths the masons but also notice behind his head the big banner (give it a few seconds to play, as the first few seconds the sound is messed up) that says "hermetic revelation."

now when i see stuff like that, i immediately think, "according to who?" is this just another room in the same building?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANVX_MEqhSM[/youtube]

The fortunate thing about the sacred mathematics/geometry at least, is that it's testable. In other words, whether it's the motivation of the person who's telling you something, to lead you down the garden path or not, mathematics doesn't lie. So if someone starts making funky claims about a relationship between the distance between Stonehenge and Avebury, and how that is a scale representation of the distance between the Earth and the Sun, or whatever, then I can take said person's numbers, pull out my calculator, hit up Wackipedia, and otherwise experimentally verify it myself.

Hence, my claim that while Pike and his fellow Masons have horns and a tail, (or at least worship someone who does) their science still makes a lot of sense; and more importantly, it makes sense in a way that we need, and could really be useful.

i take issue with cognitive dissonance when it is disguised and presented as an alternative to its original source. it bugs me when i see it or discover it amidst my own thoughts on a subject, for the obvious reason that i like to make sense, at the very least, to myself.

anyway, i find it terribly uncomfortable to see him discussing hidden information from the position of an organization infamous for hiding information, such as a hermetic order. this is the one thing that i complained to zorgon about when he told he was a rosicrucian. how could he complain that there are orgs that hid data, while being a member of an org that hides data. it made no sense to me. then he told me that some information, in the hands of the wrong person, could be disastrous. this made sense, even if i didn't know the extent of it.

so my question to you is, if the problem is they are hiding information because it gives them a superior position over the masses, could the same be said for other organizations such as rosicrucians and etc, that hide information because it could be very bad if in the wrong hands and how do we know the hands it is in currently, are the right hands?

i mean, technically speaking.

could not the same be said for masons? not that i agree with albert pike's white supremacy stuff. not sure that's a masonic platform (white supremacy i mean). personally i don't think any of us are superior to each other, even when one of us is better at something than the other.

so my question to you is, if the problem is they are hiding information because it gives them a superior position over the masses, could the same be said for other organizations such as rosicrucians and etc, that hide information because it could be very bad if in the wrong hands and how do we know the hands it is in currently, are the right hands?

Exactly the point. Pike is about as potent an example of said information being in the wrong hands, as you're likely to find. The Masons haven't been concerned about the information getting into the wrong hands; they're more worried about making sure it doesn't get into the right ones.

That, however, is why they withhold information in the first place. Look at the symbolism of the Eye being the capstone at the top of the pyramid. What you're being shown there, is the cabal's ideal form of social organisation; fairly similar to Amway.

The pyramid is also a good analogy for the type of hierarchical system, which existed within Egypt itself. The pharoah was considered the only guy in the country worthy of even getting a shot at salvation, in spiritual terms. Everyone else was just another face for him to stand on, pretty much...and Occupy think the 1% these days are bad.

Again, however, that doesn't change the fact that the mathematics behind the pyramid are very solid, and include scale distance measurements of all kinds, relating both to Earth, and in some cases, space as well. It also doesn't change the fact that the pyramids and temples are earthquake proof IRL, or that the pyramid is the single most robust type of structure that I can build in Minecraft. The sloped sides mean I can detonate TNT against them in that game, and I end up needing to replace less than a dozen blocks from the core frame.

So, yeah. The Masons are/were assholes, and the pharoahs probably were too; but the point is that they were extremely technologically advanced assholes, and it is their tech that I'm primarily interested in. Their moral disabilities are their own problem.

Exactly the point. Pike is about as potent an example of said information being in the wrong hands, as you're likely to find. The Masons haven't been concerned about the information getting into the wrong hands; they're more worried about making sure it doesn't get into the right ones.

That, however, is why they withhold information in the first place. Look at the symbolism of the Eye being the capstone at the top of the pyramid. What you're being shown there, is the cabal's ideal form of social organisation; fairly similar to Amway.

you might want to review this video series and then keep in mind, while watching it, that i seriously believe this is a big blinking example of cognitive dissonance on a massive scale. good information is there but it's off, just enough, where it can be construed to be something it actually wasnt.

for example, the israelites WERE indeed the hyksos, but the pharaoh that chased them out was ahmose. even the hieroglyphs at avaris prove this. whereas she picks a hyksos timeframe pharaoh, other than ahmose, so it can be said the story is a fiction. it was not a fiction. and this particular approach by her, is repeated over and over again: the real truth, but twisted just enough so that it sounds like it was never the truth.

the most blatant example of bold faced cognitive dissonance, i've ever witnessed and actually learned from at the same time. she makes heath ledger's joker look like an elementary school student, by comparison. she's telling the truth while lying. it's freakin' weird

for example, the israelites WERE indeed the hyksos, but the pharaoh that chased them out was ahmose. even the hieroglyphs at avaris prove this. whereas she picks a hyksos timeframe pharaoh, other than ahmose, so it can be said the story is a fiction. it was not a fiction. and this particular approach by her, is repeated over and over again: the real truth, but twisted just enough so that it sounds like it was never the truth.

Yep. Same with Christianity. Pretty much every denomination I've seen, if asked, would tell people to stay well away from any consideration of sacred geometry, claiming that it's Satanic. My response to that is, "Then exactly what the frigging heck is your own Temple Canon, guys?"

just my opinion.dont waste your time on the masons.i have.their venture is a folly.so is any mans.create your own adventure ,all the worlds a stage,we are many players.southpark has most of the answers.live in peace.be nice.

just my opinion.dont waste your time on the masons.i have.their venture is a folly.so is any mans.create your own adventure ,all the worlds a stage,we are many players.southpark has most of the answers.live in peace.be nice.

My goal isn't to waste my time on the masons themselves at all, robomont. What I'm interested in is the geometric stuff. I'm interested in harmonic architectural and engineering design. I went and did a permaculture design course last year, which went into this to a degree, but to nowhere near what I've been learning lately.

I truthfully wish that I could learn about this stuff, without ever having to hear about the Masons. I truthfully wince, mentally if not physically, every time I see the Eye anywhere. They are an absolutely vile group, as far as I'm concerned. Unfortunately though, what I do want to learn about, means having to wade through a lot of seriously yucky stuff in order to get to it.

Sacred geometry aside, most of the knowledge has now been hidden for so long from the public, even the freemasons cant find it.

Theyre crawling along the floor looking for contacts, and the rejection from them many feel isnt their hubris telling you you dont deserve to know, its their fear telling us to"not step on my contact!"

They themselves have spiralled into a vortex of self inflicted cluelessness, and as you say Petrus, theyre deathly afraid someone else is going to find the truth and put it to GOOD use.

Freemasons as a whole are a self aggrandizing bunch of dipsh!ts, who havent a clue how to do the one thing they trumpet about being able to do.

Use the power and knowledge for balance.

The yin and yang is a powerful self governor, and as such will not allow the whole of the hermetic knowledge to be used for either good or bad but for a balance, which is how the universe works.

When the current crop of freemasons meets in their darkened halls, the general feeling is of greed and control envy, and along with all the different religions twisting the truth into unbelievable piles of sh!t, we have a balance which is way to the bad side.

Until more folks try to exude and employ the good parts of hermetica in accordance with the bad, we wont have the pyramidal society we once had....it all started in those pharaonic times, when we lost our grip on the advanced knowledge, and as the principle states. as above so below, as below so above.

And lets not forget, for every top down way of thinking such as we are dominated by today, there's an inverted pyramid to keep the balance...and thats why at teotihuacan, right next to the Pyramid of the sun, is a inverted pyramid that extends down into the Earth equal in size to the surface version. The double tetrahedron..one of the few things Hoagland has a grip on understanding.

Above and Below.

Balance.

Freemasons are no more likely to execute their latest rounds of madness any more than Jesus is to come down and save us. Once mankind is ready to take the wheel again, the universe will give it back its learner's permit...until then mankind will ride its bike through the rain.

Sacred geometry is a safe bet for where the hidden knowledge lies, Petrus, and you are definitely on the right path to understanding it...but dont expect it to save us or yourself until the collective gasp is over, and we all realize weve been following the wrong path when we let religion and greed take over the world.

As for wars, and their perpetuation, when mankind was shown how he could dominate over one another, it was human nature to want to impose. Imposition of ideas and knowledge only lead to one thing...the destruction of free thinking.

And thats where we are at right now...a crossroads which could be the future, or the end.

And, no group of aholes in robes or funny hats or whatever is going to change it, they will just make it be perceived as going their way for a while until some other faction gets the upper hand.

Hey Undo, wouldnt it be nice if Jesus came in and tipped the tables right now? Whoever he was or wasnt?

I think its up to us to use this metaphorical chapter of the bible, which is based on that very same freemason hermeticism, and tip the tables now, before they collapse with the weight of stupidity and greed which controls our current lives.

Great posts here in this thread, both Petrus and Undo, and Petrus I must say, you are an eloquent and passionate writer, I hope you are aspiring to books and such, as it is a knack you clearly have my friend!

Sacred geometry aside, most of the knowledge has now been hidden for so long from the public, even the freemasons cant find it.

That's an example of poetic justice, if ever I've heard one. I feel a deep sense of satisfaction, at that.

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They themselves have spiralled into a vortex of self inflicted cluelessness, and as you say Petrus, theyre deathly afraid someone else is going to find the truth and put it to GOOD use.

I think I would enjoy finding away to embody their worst nightmares, in that regard.

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Freemasons as a whole are a self aggrandizing bunch of dipsh!ts, who havent a clue how to do the one thing they trumpet about being able to do.

Use the power and knowledge for balance.

That was roughly the impression that I'd gained, yes. I like the term "self-aggrandising bunch of dipsh!ts," in particular. It cuts through any bogus reverence that they might want other people to have for them, and really describes them exactly as they are.

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Until more folks try to exude and employ the good parts of hermetica in accordance with the bad, we wont have the pyramidal society we once had....it all started in those pharaonic times, when we lost our grip on the advanced knowledge, and as the principle states. as above so below, as below so above.

Yes. Where hermeticism is concerned, I think there's been far too much a case of people adopting the Brain ("[We'll do] The same thing we do every night, Pinky; try to take over the world!") rather than Jesus as their role model.

I'll quote this music again, in order to give you context, if you haven't heard of the characters I'm talking about, there.

[youtube]A99s7wbsk04[/youtube]

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And lets not forget, for every top down way of thinking such as we are dominated by today, there's an inverted pyramid to keep the balance...and thats why at teotihuacan, right next to the Pyramid of the sun, is a inverted pyramid that extends down into the Earth equal in size to the surface version. The double tetrahedron..one of the few things Hoagland has a grip on understanding.

Interesting how the inverted one, of course, needs the Earth to support it, not being able to stand on that tiny point. Methinks there's actually some symbolism relating to Occupy, there. They're trying to invert the current pyramid, and they're calling on the general population, to act as the packed Earth around them, because they need that support, as mentioned. It's really interesting, the analogies that are opening up in front of me, suddenly.

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Freemasons are no more likely to execute their latest rounds of madness any more than Jesus is to come down and save us. Once mankind is ready to take the wheel again, the universe will give it back its learner's permit...until then mankind will ride its bike through the rain.

My concern is that we're going to go off a cliff, before that happens. Some people think we've already gone past the point of no return.

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Sacred geometry is a safe bet for where the hidden knowledge lies, Petrus, and you are definitely on the right path to understanding it...but dont expect it to save us or yourself until the collective gasp is over, and we all realize weve been following the wrong path when we let religion and greed take over the world.

I get the feeling that there is an attitude that goes along with it...a desire for actual harmony...that is really important. If we don't have that, then you're right. We can add numbers together in as many funny and seemingly miraculous ways as we want. It's the heart that is going to save us...not the head. Mathematics is a means to an end; but the end has to be love.

I got into an argument with my mother yesterday, which I felt guilty about, so I bought her dinner tonight. Squaring off the rough edges can take a lot of different forms.

Your link was broken. I've downloaded the first part of Carl's movie. Haven't watched it yet, though. I'm currently ploughing through this one:-

[youtube]L777RhL_Fz4[/youtube]

This video has made me feel like Neo did, after they downloaded kung fu into his brain for ten hours. So much to learn!

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And, no group of aholes in robes or funny hats or whatever is going to change it, they will just make it be perceived as going their way for a while until some other faction gets the upper hand.

Your level of contempt for the cabal is definitely refreshing.

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Hey Undo, wouldnt it be nice if Jesus came in and tipped the tables right now? Whoever he was or wasnt?

I don't think he wants to. We didn't exactly treat him very well the last time he came down here. I think his attitude is probably that we can handle this on our own, this time. I don't exactly blame him.

I really think God's starting to get sick of it, to be honest. We just don't learn, and no matter how many times there are where we get told, we always kill the messenger; sometimes with waterboarding first. We're getting close to the point where we may have kicked our helpers in the nuts one too many times. Everyone has their limits.

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Great posts here in this thread, both Petrus and Undo, and Petrus I must say, you are an eloquent and passionate writer, I hope you are aspiring to books and such, as it is a knack you clearly have my friend!

Thank you, Dave. A book might happen one day, but not for a while, I don't think. I still have a lot more learning to do, before I start to teach.