Concert videos drive me nuts!

It's just a garden variety rant thread - so feel free to move along if you can't relate to the topic...

Having watched a fair number of concert videos on YouTube during the past few years - including a few shows that I'd originally seen on television 40+ years ago (i.e. California Jam, Don Kirschner's Rock Concert, etc.) - I'm once again reminded of why the concert video experience is such a bittersweet one for me: TV directors know next to nothing about music! Still!

I can't even count the number of times that I'd been grooving along, anticipating a well-known, special portion of a song - i.e. a legendary guitar solo, a signature drum fill, etc. - only to find that once that part of the music had been reached, the camera is pointed somewhere else! Usually somewhere there's nothing going on - the singer standing around waiting for his cue, a guitarist taking a moment to check his tuning, the drummer picking his nose, etc. Whatever.

Apparently whoever is operating the camera(s) - or directing the camera(s) - has no earthly idea which instrument is making "that cool sound". Assuming that they even recognize something special is occurring in the music at all.

And all this is characteristic of many professionally-produced shows. The shaky amateur video captured from the floor on someone's Android phone is something else again - and a whole other level of unwatchable.

The very worst thing, about small venues, like really small indoor venues, is the woooooos and yaaaaas and whistles from the audience. Some douche in the audience goes wooo during an amazing performance and it's there forever. Just shut up till the end.

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SirMjac28Patiently Waiting For The Next British InvasionGold Supporting Member

The very worst thing, about small venues, like really small indoor venues, is the woooooos and yaaaaas and whistles from the audience. Some douche in the audience goes wooo during an amazing performance and it's there forever. Just shut up till the end.

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+1 there was an intimate surprise concert by A Great Big World and some woman just can't seem to STFU during the performance ruined it I'm sure she plays it non stop and makes sure her friends can hear her babbling.

+1 there was an intimate surprise concert by A Great Big World and some woman just can't seem to STFU during the performance ruined it I'm sure she plays it non stop and makes sure her friends can hear her babbling.

that's what they do in Japan.. The audience sits quietly during the performance.
The first time playing there is a little alarming if you are used to playing in the states or Europe your whole life. The fans are hooting the whole way.. But in Japan, The first few songs you wonder, Do we suck? Because everyone is silent..
Then you realize they are mannerly...
You get used to it after a gig or two..
Then you head back to the states and all hell breaks loose.

The very worst thing, about small venues, like really small indoor venues, is the woooooos and yaaaaas and whistles from the audience. Some douche in the audience goes wooo during an amazing performance and it's there forever. Just shut up till the end.

It's just a garden variety rant thread - so feel free to move along if you can't relate to the topic...

Having watched a fair number of concert videos on YouTube during the past few years - including a few shows that I'd originally seen on television 40+ years ago (i.e. California Jam, Don Kirschner's Rock Concert, etc.) - I'm once again reminded of why the concert video experience is such a bittersweet one for me: TV directors know next to nothing about music! Still!

I can't even count the number of times that I'd been grooving along, anticipating a well-known, special portion of a song - i.e. a legendary guitar solo, a signature drum fill, etc. - only to find that once that part of the music had been reached, the camera is pointed somewhere else! Usually somewhere there's nothing going on - the singer standing around waiting for his cue, a guitarist taking a moment to check his tuning, the drummer picking his nose, etc. Whatever.

Apparently whoever is operating the camera(s) - or directing the camera(s) - has no earthly idea which instrument is making "that cool sound". Assuming that they even recognize something special is occurring in the music at all.

And all this is characteristic of many professionally-produced shows. The shaky amateur video captured from the floor on someone's Android phone is something else again - and a whole other level of unwatchable.

OK, I've got it out of my system now. Carry on...

MM

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Blame the guy who have to put together all video and sound to sell you that DVD or for broadcast ... or blame the guy that say to the cameramen what to film ...

The very worst thing, about small venues, like really small indoor venues, is the woooooos and yaaaaas and whistles from the audience. Some douche in the audience goes wooo during an amazing performance and it's there forever. Just shut up till the end.

Click to expand...

That's why I prefer to go to a jazz concert or classical music concert because you don't have to deal with stupid people who scream so many stupid things ...

the last concert I saw was Chick Corea solo and it was amazing but there was very weird chick that instead of shutting up like everyone else she had to scream something at Chick and it was always way to dumb and at one point it was obvious Chick was annoyed like there's no tomorrow and one guy just said to the girl to shut up and we never heard of her ever again.

Before that I saw Alain Caron which was amazing too and everyone shut up and that was perfect.

I saw Dream Theater a few years ago and it was impossible to just enjoy the music.

I can't even count the number of times that I'd been grooving along, anticipating a well-known, special portion of a song - i.e. a legendary guitar solo, a signature drum fill, etc. - only to find that once that part of the music had been reached, the camera is pointed somewhere else! Usually somewhere there's nothing going on - the singer standing around waiting for his cue, a guitarist taking a moment to check his tuning, the drummer picking his nose, etc. Whatever.

MM

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Agreed... Several years ago I bought a DVD of Deep Purple live in '72.
Every time a cool Blackmore guitar solo or Ian Paice drum break occurs, the cameras were fixed on Ian Gillan playing congas! Unwatchable!

IMO, recent concert videos are far better than those from the '60s/'70s.
Hendrix At Berkeley? The camera guy in the center had to be stoned.
I just linked an Edgar Winter Group Midnight Special; they're killin' "Frankenstein"...some production spazz added some psychedelic F/X in...spoiling the view (for those not on acid).
Another one: Free's performance at Isle Of Wight...camera is very tight on Paul Rodgers, even during Andy Fraser's bass bit. IIRC, same for The Doors' performance...all about Morrison's face.

Some recent concert videos even have multi-views...selectable by the viewer.

Agreed! So many times when I'm waiting for the guitar solo, then the camera goes to the acoustic player or the bassist! C'mon, the director can't even tell the difference between a guitar and a bass?
On a positive note, I think it was during the 2013 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame show, the director was nailing it. Many times they went to a close shot of Will Lee when he did a sweet bass fill. Yes, they actually showed the bass player when he did something cool!!!! That director and camera crew must have been taking notes during the rehearsals. This is of course very rare.

Although I've enjoyed some concert videos, some have irked me, as well. I like latter-days Byrds stuff a lot, and I've noticed that when Clarence White went into a complex bit, the camera conspicuously went to Roger/Jim, as if to try to convince me that his Rickenbacker had magically become a B-bender Tele just for that particular solo. I find that sort of thing to be insulting to the intelligence of many folks, not just myself.

They vary a lot. I've complained about it before, but on the basis of Yes' Live in Montreux video, you would barely even realize there was a bassist in the band at all. EVERYONE else gets a least a decent share of time on screen, but you hardly see Chris Squire except during the Fish. Lots of close-ups on Steve Howe's playing, though. The Songs from Tsongas video, though, is much better balanced among the band members.

Some recent concert videos even have multi-views...selectable by the viewer.

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That really is the way to do it. Just bypass the director's role entirely, and allow the viewer to select his/her own views. Absolutely. The technology is now available for live television too, for coverage of sports events. Why not concerts as well?

Agreed! So many times when I'm waiting for the guitar solo, then the camera goes to the acoustic player or the bassist! C'mon, the director can't even tell the difference between a guitar and a bass?
On a positive note, I think it was during the 2013 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame show, the director was nailing it. Many times they went to a close shot of Will Lee when he did a sweet bass fill. Yes, they actually showed the bass player when he did something cool!!!! That director and camera crew must have been taking notes during the rehearsals. This is of course very rare.

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Ideally, the director & camera operators ought to review the specific music to be performed at the concert, prior to the concert, and establish a basic game plan for which types of shots & angles to get for particular types of musical passages. The director, at the very least, ought to be familiar with the music already, so that he can anticipate the kinds of shots that will be necessary, to get his operators into proper position ahead of time.

They don't do it because they're lazy. And ignorant. And because it apparently never occurs to them that this should be part of their jobs.

This is why I became a camera director at my church.
Everyone else that does it is at least twice my age and doesn't really know music or the songs the band plays very well.
I'm familiar with the songs/solos that they play and when there's a new song I radio the soundbooth to get the details on the music.
So yeah I know exactly what you mean.
And I like to think I'm doing something to help.

That really is the way to do it. Just bypass the director's role entirely, and allow the viewer to select his/her own views. Absolutely. The technology is now available for live television too, for coverage of sports events. Why not concerts as well?

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One of the top of my head is the Herbie Hancock Future 2 FutureLive DVD.
Matt Garrison, DJ Disk & Terri Lynn Carrington kill on this stuff.

...got it playing in the background. Serious groove at about 32:10.
Good look at Garrison's 5-finger plucking hand Jaco-funk at about 33:00.
Whew. Bad ass.

Good direction of this one...the guy must be a serious fan!
The Multi-View, I guess, is for those with the DVD & a Remote Control.

Ideally, the director & camera operators ought to review the specific music to be performed at the concert, prior to the concert, and establish a basic game plan for which types of shots & angles to get for particular types of musical passages. The director, at the very least, ought to be familiar with the music already, so that he can anticipate the kinds of shots that will be necessary, to get his operators into proper position ahead of time.

They don't do it because they're lazy. And ignorant. And because it apparently never occurs to them that this should be part of their jobs.

The very worst thing, about small venues, like really small indoor venues, is the woooooos and yaaaaas and whistles from the audience. Some douche in the audience goes wooo during an amazing performance and it's there forever. Just shut up till the end.

that's what they do in Japan.. The audience sits quietly during the performance.
The first time playing there is a little alarming if you are used to playing in the states or Europe your whole life. The fans are hooting the whole way.. But in Japan, The first few songs you wonder, Do we suck? Because everyone is silent..
Then you realize they are mannerly...
You get used to it after a gig or two..
Then you head back to the states and all hell breaks loose.

Click to expand...

Well, since we're now discussing unruly audiences, I've gotta tell ya that the nimrods here in NYC are among the very worst. I don't know what there is about the culture of this place that brings out their inner mouth breather, but as a transplanted small-town Midwesterner, I still find it intolerable.

About 15 years ago, Yes played a series of dates here at the Beacon Theater. I attended two of those shows.

At both shows, when it came time for Steve Howe's acoustic set (i.e. Mood for a Day, The Clap, etc.), there were various people situated throughout the room who took advantage of the relative quietness of the moment to act out their knucklehead fantasies. They simply would not shut up, even during some of the most serene, sensitive passages of the music. Apparently they thought they were at a Guns 'n' Roses concert.

It got to the point where they were disrupting Steve Howe's flow, practically ruining the entire set. At one especially delicate moment in the music, he actually stopped playing - twice in fact - stepped up to the microphone, and essentially told the morons to STFU.

I was actually embarrassed, simply to have been a part of the experience, however passively and innocently.

Add me to the list! Concert videos suck! Have you ever watched the 67 Monterey pop festival? Half the camera shots are closeup face shots of the damn crowd (same person over and over) or super tight on the singers face!@!!!!! SUCKS! Yah, count me in on the list of pissed off live video audience members. Thanks!

Which proves there really is a difference between musicians and the unwashed masses.

They attend music shows to be entertained, we attend shows to cop licks or glom on what equipment the band is using.

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Yes. But I believe there is a middle ground in there as well, comprised of people who, although they're not musicians per se, nevertheless know a thing or two about music, can distinguish one instrument from another, and appreciate being given the opportunity of a close-up view of the soloist - and of anyone else who's playing something that is especially distinctive or significant.