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Re: Pierce Being Shopped

Ron Artest is going to shock a lot of people this season, because I believe his real breakout season was delayed. I think last year he was on his way to the best season on both sides of the ball that he had ever had. I also think he would have been a second teamer this past season. When I saw the way he took the team on his shoulders to start the season in the 7 games with Jermaine, Reggie, Jeff and Anthony hurt, I was shocked. I saw a new player. When he wasn't there for the two games Rick benched him for... We weren't the same team. He showed me that he was the best player on the team and that he was ready to take the team to new heights. If i'm not mistaken, we won all 7 games he played this year... correct?

He is going to have a breakout year this season regaining the DPOY award and averaging 20+ points a game. Then you'll all be glad we didn't trade him.

Re: Pierce Being Shopped

if ur referring to me....not hardly...i do realize how impactful of a role he can play as a member of the pacers and believe he is vital to them winning a championship....

He could be suspended for 5 straight years, and some of you would still say "Wait till next year, stop being haters"

nope...wrong again....that would mean he had gotten worse...instead of better...i do think he will be overly scrutinized this season-which isnt really fair-but understandable....and i believe he will excel this season....why? because he showed all the signs of doing so till a certain cup was thrown...he was playing simply fabulously before the brawl...and expect him to play even better after what has happened...and i believe he will be a better man for his brush with death...

Regardless, we have killed the ARtest debate in the last 12 months. I just hope he has a great season net year (and is able to play a full season)

there really shouldnt be much of a debate...and this is the part i really dont understand....hes a member of the pacers...i would expect pacer fans to have favorites...but i also would expect them to be supportive of anyone on the team for the teams standpoint-even if they have certain personal hangups regarding certain players.....

but i guess i feel like people that have this disdain for artest are really trying to be some sort of catbird....

they will sit back and enjoy the success he brings, yet will be in a position to say i told u so if it doesnt happen....which i find a bit disconcerting from a supposed true fan of a team....but then again...my personal feelings on the matter dont matter....however i would expect those that echo such disdain to offer up some major apologies towards ron when he holds up his end of the bargain....

Re: Pierce Being Shopped

Lastly, I dont know about you, but when I signed my contract to be a Pacers fan, I didnt see a clause that said I had to support every player 100%. Oh wait, I didnt sign a contract.

No one owes anyone a apology, regardless. We can like when he does well, and appreciate that, and ***** when he screws up (like gettin gsuspended for a season)

We can like or dislike whoever we like, for whatever reasons we like. While some people here would like you to beleive so, it doesnt make you a "bad" fan or "hater" because you dont support Artest or agree wtih his supporters.

all i know is i would be embarassed to say some of the things that have been said about an opposing player of a team i really dislike such as the pistons.....let alone about a player on my supposed favorite team....but thats just me....

and as i said...i dont think u have to like or love every player...i personally dont care at all for austin croshere....never have...and never will...but i really try to temper that...especially when i have something negative to say....and i really try to refrain from taking personal shots at the guy-but instead try to reflect only on the facts at hand and give him the benefit of the doubt-like him or not....he plays for my favorite team....and i choose to believe that he is a human being deserving of my respect and support regardless of my personal feelings about him....

Re: Pierce Being Shopped

While I agree with you, some members (both past and present) feel like if you even dare criticize a player, you are not a "real fan".

We all try to temper our feelings, but Im a rather blunt guy. I say how I feel, and if that makes me "not a real fan", then so be it..........

i totally respect the right to criticize a player....especially if its directed at a players results....i do have some rather strong feelings regarding taking somewhat personal shots or criticizing a subject that we really are not in a position to know all the facts....

i really believe people are too quick to judge....if ur gonna judge...u should definitely make sure u have access to all the facts needed to do so...otherwise...well...u know...

however, there is definitely a difference between criticism and disdain or 'hate' as u referred to it....

criticism usually deals with something that can be improved upon.....'jermaine can improve upon his rebounding by blocking out better-or at all'....disdain or hate might say 'jermaine is a ****ty rebounder and always will be'....

one i find very acceptable....the other i do not-not when ur a supposed fan....if ur going to have such disdain for a basketball player- i seriously have to wonder why you would choose to be a fan....its supposed to be fun....and enjoyable....such disdain cant be fun...or even healthy....

really i wonder....if u only support the positives or the things u like about a team-what separates this type of person from the socalled fairweather or bandwagon fans?

Re: Pierce Being Shopped

Nobody's mentioned what I think is the most interesting point in the original post... the Celts would be shopping Banks. I like him a lot, and not just because he came from UNLV. It's nice having a backup PG that can ballhawk.

Re: Pierce Being Shopped

I dont see a problem with the supposed "haters" example you used. If JO averaged 1 rebound a season for 5 straight years, and someone said that. I would consider that person to be of a "negative" mindset, but I wouldnt have a problem with the comment.

As for your last question, the difference is they stick around through the good and the bad. They just ***** more about it [the bad].....

hey...i dont mind some *****ing...every one needs to vent...but where ron is concerned....it was almost 7 months ago....i mean...i know its not necessarily my place to say...but it would seem that 7 months is time enuff to move on and get over it...

he ****ed up....he wasnt the only guilty party...but he ****ed up....he made a mistake....it cost him dearly...it cost the pacers dearly...it cost all of us fans dearly....but its done...this isnt a capital murder case.... and i would think that as pacers fans, most would see that he might have been overly penalized due to the fact stern needed to send a message.....and for that there might be a bit of sympathy....not a lot...but maybe some....

bottom line is we have all paid more than our fair share....just like reggie said...it seems we have shouldered more of the blame than we shouldve...that goes for all of us-ron, pacers organization, and pacer fans....

what i dont really understand is why some fans cant seem to move on....ron has...the organization has....and some fans have....the future is very bright...we have a lot to be excited about....the way some talk around here u woulda thought we were a lottery team....

and why some people choose to belittle artest's playing ability because he made a mistake and went into the stands is beyond me.....the two are not related in any way....him going into the stands didnt hurt his jumpshot or negate his defensive prowess....in fact an injury that sidelined him for the season would be more of an issue than his suspension...there might be some question regarding his physical ability, then....

but thats not the case...and we have every reason to think he will come out and resume where he left off....but even more eager than before-which is kinda scary when u think about it...

Re: Pierce Being Shopped

Ron Artest is going to shock a lot of people this season, because I believe his real breakout season was delayed. I think last year he was on his way to the best season on both sides of the ball that he had ever had. I also think he would have been a second teamer this past season. When I saw the way he took the team on his shoulders to start the season in the 7 games with Jermaine, Reggie, Jeff and Anthony hurt, I was shocked. I saw a new player. When he wasn't there for the two games Rick benched him for... We weren't the same team. He showed me that he was the best player on the team and that he was ready to take the team to new heights. If i'm not mistaken, we won all 7 games he played this year... correct?

He is going to have a breakout year this season regaining the DPOY award and averaging 20+ points a game. Then you'll all be glad we didn't trade him.

Re: Pierce Being Shopped

Nobody's mentioned what I think is the most interesting point in the original post... the Celts would be shopping Banks. I like him a lot, and not just because he came from UNLV. It's nice having a backup PG that can ballhawk.

Actually, now that I think about, it gets more interesting.

That trade would give them 5 point guards (including Payton). They'll definitely keep Paul and West, but they probably won't re-sign Payton (too bad we only have the vet minimum) and they might be willing to trade NVE. He's on the last year of his contact, and actually he has an option that we could decline to pick up. Is there any package we could put together to get Nick?

EDIT: And can we stop the Artest-for-Pierce talk? I don't think it's a good deal for us, but Ainge definitely wouldn't do it. The whole idea is to draft that point guard he covets.

Re: Pierce Being Shopped

do u really honestly believe that everything that has happened to ron wont have a profound effect on him? seriously, how could anyone think that events similar to what happened last year will take place again-let alone that he will react the same way....he lost five million dollars and has been embarassed and had a huge part of his life taken away...it only stands to reason that he will be aware of the behavior issues that caused this and will have bettered them...hes not a monster like some of u like to make him out to be...hes a human like all of us....i wish some of u would keep this in mind and put urself in his shoes

First, I know Ron's history and where he comes from. Obviously he has things in his life that he is trying to deal with that have little to do with basketball. I also know that he seems to be a really great guy. He supports his family and friends.

Second, I really like Ron's game. He plays great d, is decent on offense, and plays as hard as anyone does. When he is under control there isn't a better 3 in the game.

My only concern is whether he has gotten his emotions under control. The only way we will know this is when the lights are turned on and the ball is rolled out for real. Noone, not even Ron, will have an answer until then. I really hope he has gotten himself under control, but until he proves it I can't say I will be comfortable with his role on the team.

Re: Pierce Being Shopped

Even the most ardent of Ron supporters will have to admit that even if we're 60 games into the season without indident, and it looks like we're on our way to making a serious championship run, they'll still be holding their breath that the roof doesn't cave in at some point. At the end of last season, after the ECFs, management had had it with Ron because, among other things, they felt like he couldn't handle the pressure that comes with a deep playoff run. That has very little to do with what everyone is debating here.

Re: Pierce Being Shopped

Even the most ardent of Ron supporters will have to admit that even if we're 60 games into the season without indident, and it looks like we're on our way to making a serious championship run, they'll still be holding their breath that the roof doesn't cave in at some point. At the end of last season, after the ECFs, management had had it with Ron because, among other things, they felt like he couldn't handle the pressure that comes with a deep playoff run. That has very little to do with what everyone is debating here.

i cant speak for everyone...only myself....and no...i wouldnt be holding my breath...i do not believe ron artest will be a problem next year...or the following year either...

if i did...then i would be in favor of letting him go....you dont want to have that hanging over you....

you see.....i see things as they are...nothing more....nothing less....and as a result of everything that has happened i believe that everyone that is directly involved now has a much clearer understanding of what the issues are....once u do that, then u can deal with them much more effectively....

everyone has pros and cons....ron is no different....its not unreasonable to expect a few out of the ordinary events from a player that is driven to perform at such a high level, considering the intensity levels he deals with....

and these issues can be dealt with in house....whether its flareups getting on planes or whatever....when u have such passion and such belief ur gonna have these types of situations from time to time....anyone that doesnt understand this doesnt understand whats really going on....its managements responsibility to manage and minimize these situations....and they can do that in a number of different ways....

ron made tremendous improvements-basically having no on court issues for the season before last and then i saw him walk away from ben wallace....that means something...it means alot...

given how he must have been feeling at that very moment....when the fluke cup throw hit him....well....its not excusable but somewhat understandable he would react....because he wasnt reacting to just a cup....and im so sick and tired of seeing that said....he was reacting to an unbelievably intense effort he had just put forth in beating the defending champs and our main rivals on their home floor....he was reacting to getting punched in the throat....and then having a fan throw a beer on him....

i totally believe if he wasnt the one involved with wallace and something similar wouldve broken out that he wouldnt have gone into the stands....but thats not what happened so it doesnt really matter that much....

all that being said....now hes even prepared for the fluke situations....i mean if u just stop and think about all that had to happen for those things to occur...so if another freakish sort of series of events takes place....ron will be much better equipped to deal with it....

he gets it...he paid a heavy price to get it...as did we...but he gets it...and i believe that...and im looking forward to seeing ron play next year....because it should be a site to behold....

as far as worrying about something like that....ill be much more worried about stephen jackson doing something crazy and costing his team than i will be ron artest....im not nearly as convinced that stephen jackson gets it yet....while rons behavior wasnt, under any circumstances, acceptable that nite, it was somewhat understandable.....i do not believe the same can be said for jacks actions that nite....but this is all IMO....