“There is no evidence that Jesus himself openly advocated violent actions. But he was certainly no pacifist. “Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth. I have not come to bring peace, but the sword” (Matthew 10:34 | Luke 12:51).” ― Reza Aslan, Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth

Those living through this present age of SWAT team raids, police shootings of unarmed citizens, roadside strip searches, and invasive surveillance might feel as if these events are unprecedented. Yet while we in the United States may be experiencing a steady slide into a police state, we are neither the first nor the last nation to do so.

Although technology, politics and superpowers have changed over time, the characteristics of a police state and its reasons for being have remained the same: control, power and money. Indeed, as I point out in my book A Government of Wolves: The Emerging American Police State, a police state extends far beyond the actions of law enforcement. In fact, a police state “is characterized by bureaucracy, secrecy, perpetual wars, a nation of suspects, militarization, surveillance, widespread police presence, and a citizenry with little recourse against police actions.”

Just as police states have arisen throughout history, there have also been individuals or groups of individuals who have risen up to challenge the injustices of their age. Nazi Germany had its Dietrich Bonhoeffer. The gulags of the Soviet Union were challenged by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn. America had its color-coded system of racial segregation and warmongering called out for what it was, blatant discrimination and profiteering, by Martin Luther King Jr.

And then there was Jesus Christ, an itinerant preacher and revolutionary activist, who not only died challenging the police state of his day—namely, the Roman Empire—but provided a blueprint for civil disobedience that would be followed by those, religious and otherwise, who came after him. Yet for all the accolades poured out upon Jesus, little is said about the harsh realities of the police state in which he lived and its similarities to modern-day America, and yet they are striking.

Secrecy, surveillance and rule by the elite. As the chasm between the wealthy and poor grew wider in the Roman Empire, the ruling class and the wealthy class became synonymous, while the lower classes, increasingly deprived of their political freedoms, grew disinterested in the government and easily distracted by “bread and circuses.” Much like America today, with its lack of government transparency, overt domestic surveillance, and rule by the rich, the inner workings of the Roman Empire were shrouded in secrecy, while its leaders were constantly on the watch for any potential threats to its power. The resulting state-wide surveillance was primarily carried out by the military, which acted as investigators, enforcers, torturers, policemen, executioners and jailers. Today that role is fulfilled by increasingly militarized police forces across the country.

Widespread police presence. The Roman Empire used its military forces to maintain the “peace,” thereby establishing a police state that reached into all aspects of a citizen’s life. In this way, these military officers, used to address a broad range of routine problems and conflicts, enforced the will of the state. Today SWAT teams, comprised of local police and federal agents, are employed to carry out routine search warrants for minor crimes such as marijuana possession and credit card fraud.

Citizenry with little recourse against the police state. As the Roman Empire expanded, personal freedom and independence nearly vanished, as did any real sense of local governance and national consciousness. Similarly, in America today, citizens largely feel powerless, voiceless and unrepresented in the face of a power-hungry federal government. As states and localities are brought under direct control by federal agencies and regulations, a sense of learned helplessness grips the nation.

Perpetual wars and a military empire. Much like America today with its practice of policing the world, war and an over-arching militarist ethos provided the framework for the Roman Empire, which extended from the Italian peninsula to all over Southern, Western, and Eastern Europe, extending into North Africa and Western Asia as well. In addition to significant foreign threats, wars were waged against inchoate, unstructured and socially inferior foes.

Martial law. Eventually, Rome established a permanent military dictatorship that left the citizens at the mercy of an unreachable and oppressive totalitarian regime. In the absence of resources to establish civic police forces, the Romans relied increasingly on the military to intervene in all matters of conflict or upheaval in provinces, from small-scale scuffles to large-scale revolts. Not unlike police forces today, with their militarized weapons and “shoot first, ask questions later” mindset, the Roman soldier had “the exercise of lethal force at his fingertips” with the potential of wreaking havoc on normal citizens’ lives.

A nation of suspects. Just as the American Empire looks upon its citizens as suspects to be tracked, surveilled and controlled, the Roman Empire looked upon all potential insubordinates, from the common thief to a full-fledged insurrectionist, as threats to its power. The insurrectionist was seen as directly challenging the Emperor. A “bandit,” or revolutionist, was seen as capable of overturning the empire, was always considered guilty and deserving of the most savage penalties, including capital punishment. Bandits were usually punished publicly and cruelly as a means of deterring others from challenging the power of the state. Jesus’ execution was one such public punishment.

Acts of civil disobedience by insurrectionists. Starting with his act of civil disobedience at the Jewish temple, the site of the administrative headquarters of the Sanhedrin, the supreme Jewish council, Jesus branded himself a political revolutionary. When Jesus “with the help of his disciples, blocks the entrance to the courtyard” and forbids “anyone carrying goods for sale or trade from entering the Temple,” he committed a blatantly criminal and seditious act, an act “that undoubtedly precipitated his arrest and execution.” Because the commercial events were sponsored by the religious hierarchy, which in turn was operated by consent of the Roman government, Jesus’ attack on the money chargers and traders can be seen as an attack on Rome itself, an unmistakable declaration of political and social independence from the Roman oppression.

Military-style arrests in the dead of night. Jesus’ arrest account testifies to the fact that the Romans perceived Him as a revolutionary. Eerily similar to today’s SWAT team raids, Jesus was arrested in the middle of the night, in secret, by a large, heavily armed fleet of soldiers. Rather than merely asking for Jesus when they came to arrest him, his pursuers collaborated beforehand with Judas. Acting as a government informant, Judas concocted a kiss as a secret identification marker, hinting that a level of deception and trickery must be used to obtain this seemingly “dangerous revolutionist’s” cooperation.

Torture and capital punishment. In Jesus’ day, religious preachers, self-proclaimed prophets and nonviolent protesters were not summarily arrested and executed. Indeed, the high priests and Roman governors normally allowed a protest, particularly a small-scale one, to run its course. However, government authorities were quick to dispose of leaders and movements that appeared to threaten the Roman Empire. The charges leveled against Jesus—that he was a threat to the stability of the nation, opposed paying Roman taxes and claimed to be the rightful King—were purely political, not religious. To the Romans, any one of these charges was enough to merit death by crucifixion, which was usually reserved for slaves, non-Romans, radicals, revolutionaries and the worst criminals.

Jesus was presented to Pontius Pilate “as a disturber of the political peace,” a leader of a rebellion, a political threat, and most gravely—a claimant to kingship, a “king of the revolutionary type.” After Jesus is formally condemned by Pilate, he is sentenced to death by crucifixion, “the Roman means of executing criminals convicted of high treason.” The purpose of crucifixion was not so much to kill the criminal, as it was an immensely public statement intended to visually warn all those who would challenge the power of the Roman Empire. Hence, it was reserved solely for the most extreme political crimes: treason, rebellion, sedition, and banditry. After being ruthlessly whipped and mocked, Jesus was nailed to a cross.

As Professor Mark Lewis Taylor observed:

The cross within Roman politics and culture was a marker of shame, of being a criminal. If you were put to the cross, you were marked as shameful, as criminal, but especially as subversive. And there were thousands of people put to the cross. The cross was actually positioned at many crossroads, and, as New Testament scholar Paula Fredricksen has reminded us, it served as kind of a public service announcement that said, “Act like this person did, and this is how you will end up.”

Jesus—the revolutionary, the political dissident, and the nonviolent activist—lived and died in a police state. Any reflection on Jesus’ life and death within a police state must take into account several factors: Jesus spoke out strongly against such things as empires, controlling people, state violence and power politics. Jesus challenged the political and religious belief systems of his day. And worldly powers feared Jesus, not because he challenged them for control of thrones or government but because he undercut their claims of supremacy, and he dared to speak truth to power in a time when doing so could—and often did—cost a person his life.

Unfortunately, the radical Jesus, the political dissident who took aim at injustice and oppression, has been largely forgotten today, replaced by a congenial, smiling Jesus trotted out for religious holidays but otherwise rendered mute when it comes to matters of war, power and politics. Yet for those who truly study the life and teachings of Jesus, the resounding theme is one of outright resistance to war, materialism and empire.

As Professor Taylor notes, “The power of Jesus is one that enables us to critique the nation and the empire. Unfortunately, that gospel is being sacrificed and squandered by Christians who have cozied up to power and wealth.” Ultimately, this is the contradiction that must be resolved if the radical Jesus—the one who stood up to the Roman Empire and was crucified as a warning to others not to challenge the powers-that-be—is to be an example for our modern age.

56 Comments

I say bullshit ,Jesus was not a revolutionary activist .Not one time did Christ call.for the overthrow the Roman government.He didn’t call for the end of slavery in Roman empire or any other institutions of the Romans nor did Paul.

bb is correct. The author’s premise is false. Jesus did not seek to overthrow the Roman government; neither was it the Roman government seeking to make an example of him as a dissident.

It was the Jewish religious leaders of his day that wanted him dead (Matt 12:14, 22:15, Mark 3:6, 11:18, 14:1, Luke 22:2) because his claims to be God, his doctrine, and his miracles challenged their control over the Jewish people. Pilate actually found no fault in him (Luke 23:4) and sought to release Jesus (Luke 23:20, John 19:12, Acts 3:13), but succumbed to fear of the people.

The author does not postulate that Jesus was out to overthrow the RomanEmpire. Resistance to its injustices and exploitation was his concern. In a more immediate context, we find Cliven Bundy peacefully resisting an injustice in our empire; he is not seeking to overthrow the government.

One of the great tragedies of the American church is that it has bought into devotion to the State as spiritual expression. Its naive patriotic fervor has been used and abused by those not at all committed to advancing God’s kingdom, and it represents a complete misunderstanding of the teachings of its favorite radical Jesus. I get irritated when a local Christian radio station has children come on to say the Pledge of Allegiance every morning. How much more relevant it would be to have them read or recite a section of the Sermon on the Mount.

Christianity and politics should be inimical enemies. One gains it’s strength from faith and humility, the other from power and intimidation. When Christians attempt to extend their interests by using using political power, it is invariably a disaster.

Are you SO STUPID as to not understand that virtually EVERY one of Jeebus’ teachings was anathema to the religious, political, and social status quo??

WHY do you think the NT states in several places that the leading priests and teachers of religious law ” .. afraid of Him, because the whole crowd was astonished by His teaching.”? Do you think the crowds were astonished because Jeebus was teaching the same old recycled and regurgitated shit they’ve heard a thousand times before …. or because his teachings were truly revolutionary?

Did not the Romans themselves tell us EXACTLY why they killed Jeebus when they nailed the charge RIGHT ON THE CROSS ……. that they believed Jeebus intended to become KING OF THE JEWS ……….. but the religious leaders wanted to change the sign say “HE SAID HE IS THE KING OF THE JEWS” ……. but Pilate basically told them to fuckoff? Is that not an indication the Romans believed Jeebus participated in insurrection? (In addition to the charge of not paying taxes!)

But, you say ‘Noooooo, Jeebus was not a revolutionary!”, simply because you (and, Rick) are too dense to add 1 + 1 and come up with 2.

The USSA is much worse than Rome. We have military bases all over the world, which taxpayers fund, not the countries themselves. They pay no tribute.

We’ve murdered more people in their own countries than Rome ever did.

We’re at least as amoral as Romans.

We’re destroying our currency and economic system much like Rome. And we’re destroying our country with worthless immigrants and a massive welfare state where parasites outnumber workers almost 2:1. Bread and circuses.

But we’re in more debt than Rome could ever hope for. And our government is much more fascist, spying, and tyranny.

It was during the Roman empire that God sent his son. We can only hope and pray he send his son once again, to fight the armies of darkness and the anti-christ. Only God can save our country now.

Mark 14:61-62 “But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked
him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed? {14:62} And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming
in the clouds of heaven.”

John 10:33 “The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.”

Stucky says, “Did not the Romans themselves tell us EXACTLY why they killed Jeebus when they nailed the charge RIGHT ON THE CROSS ……. that they believed Jeebus intended to become KING OF THE JEWS?”

Wrong again. The Romans did not “believe Jesus intended to become King of the Jews”. Pilate asks him. “And Pilate asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answered him and said, Thou sayest [it. ]{23:4} Then said Pilate to the chief priests and [to] the people, I find no fault in this man.”

Even after he asks him and Jesus admits it, notice what Pilate says. I FIND NO FAULT IN HIM.

Can you not read plain English Stucky? Does a person who finds no fault in someone intend to kill them.

How about this?

Luke 23:20-22 “Pilate therefore, WILLING TO RELEASE JESUS, spake again to them. {23:21} But they cried, saying, Crucify [him,] crucify him. {23:22} And he said unto them the third time, Why,
what evil hath he done? I HAVE FOUND NO CAUSE OF DEATH IN HIM: I will therefore chastise him, and let [him] go.”

He would hit on Mary Magdaline and left her in the car to drown after driving it off a bridge at the Jordan River. Then declare the other side has declared a War On Women. While having no women among the disciples.

At the feeding of the Five Thousand, He would have had his SEIU goon disciples strongarm people with plenty of food to hand it over so He could hand it out to the lazy, indigent and weak-minded – in exchange for a vote for Him next election. OR – He would have passed out 5,000 food stamps.

….he would make sure everyone follows the 10 Commandments, but exempt Himself from them.

…. if anyone were critical of Him, he’d wither their vocal cords.

…..He wouldn’t be the Prince of Peace. He’d be the King of Chaos. You have to create problems before you can fix them. His “followers” would become occupiers.

…..He wouldn’t stop at 10 percent for tithes. Hard workers would have taxes raised on their earnings to take care of the so-called “oppressed” standing around with their hands out.

…healing would be replaced by Jesuscare…where, if you were approved by the political panel, you’d get immediate treatment in 6 to 9 months. In the meantime, take an aspirin and hope what you have isn’t fatal in the short run.

…all menorahs and lamps must be solar powered, as He would be against the greedy pigs of Big Olive Oil. He would give billions to solar lamp firms which would then go bankrupt and the money would be missing.

….the wedding at Cana would have been a gay one.

….He would make sure all His bios say He was born in Bethlehem, not Kenya.

…the miracle of the loaves and fishes would be about Stimulus grants and free Obama phones

…instead of raising Lazurus from the dead, he’d tell him to just take the pain pill

…if the adultress voted Republican, he would’ve encouraged the Pharisees to stone her

…the apostles would’ve all been journ0lists instead of fishermen

…instead of apostles, he’d have cronies

…he wouldn’t have let John the Baptist baptize him until John showed him a union card

…after driving the money changers out of the Temple, he’d replace them with his cronies

…he’d spend 40 days in the desert but instead of praying, he’d be scouting out locations for government-funded wind farms and solar panel installations

…he wouldn’t be able to walk on water but all the journ0list-cronies-apostles would TELL people he did

While his miraculous superpowers have always been part of the progressive narrative, there has recently been a increase in sightings of Barack Obama’s divine nature in the mainstream culture – from a painting that depicts the president as crucified Christ, to Jamie Foxx calling Barack Obama our lord and savior, to a Florida professor who described Obama as an apostle sent to create “heaven here on earth.”

Thus, let us ponder about whether we would be better off if Christ were to equal Obama in moral and intellectual prowess. In fact, let us make a list (and check it twice) of what he would do differently:

-He would apologize to Egypt for the renegade Exodus and restore the security and equality of bondage for all.
-He would take money from the Temple to bail out the money changers.
-He would feed the multitudes with five government forms and a roll of red tape.
-All writing on the wall would have to be bilingual by government mandate.
-Disciples would be Palestinians.
-His mentor would try to blow up the Temple.
-Judea papyrus printers would never criticize his actions.
-Public schools would teach about him during his own lifetime.
-The Nazarenes would stop clinging to their slingshots and Torahs.
-Sodom and Gomorrah would be vibrant cultural centers of tolerance and diversity.
-Planned Parenthood would be eliminating the firstborns better than the failed Herod administration.
-The government would limit the size of Roman chariots to avoid climate change.
-Businesses would be found guilty of killing the Dead Sea and be shut down.
-The Last Supper would cost the taxpayers 1.4 billion shekels.
-He would tell Pontius Pilate, “Wait until after the crucifixion, I’ll be more flexible then.”

On the other hand, if Obama were to play the part of our lord and savior with just a little more zing, his inspirational quotes would also sound differently:

-Give to Caesar what is Caesars, unless you make more than 25 shekels, then deduct column A from E and add to D.
-Blessed are all who have grievances, for they shall be compensated through civil rights lawsuits.
-Blessed are the jobless, for the taxpayers shall be their keepers.
-Blessed are the poor, for theirs is the kingdom of state-expropriated wealth.
– If your right eye causes you to sin, invite the left one to join in; for if it looks good, it can’t be wrong.
-If your right hand causes you to sin, make sure to have enough for the left hand; for if it feels good, it can’t be wrong.
-Whoever lusts for a woman or man, go right ahead and get the media to cover it up for you.
-I am my brother’s keeper, unless he lives in a hut in Kenya.
-A man can have no greater love than to lay down his taxes for others.
-Impose healthcare unto others that you would not impose unto yourself.
-Render unto the Government what belongs to God and hope the Government will provide.
-I say to you, hate your rich neighbors and love the government that redistributes their wealth.
-Whoever in the world slaps you on your cheek, pander to him with largesse.
-If anyone wants to sue you and possess your money, let him have your country, also.
-Love America’s enemies, bless those who curse it, do good to those who hate it, and agree with those who spitefully attack it.
-Peter, when you go to Benghazi, I will deny your request for help three times.

Don’t give me any of the bullshit you already supplied, or any new bullshit. Don’t make me guess, infer, deduct, or solve a logical puzzle. I want the exact verse.

Crickets.

You want me to play your Mental Gymnastics game regarding a hugely ginormous issue. I mean, a human who claims to be God? Doesn’t get any bigger than that. Yet, you are fucking incapable of seeing the truth of a relatively minor matter …. that Jeebus was a revolutionary figure.

Gayle said, —- “Christianity and politics should be inimical enemies.”

In an ideal world, perhaps. We don’t live in an ideal world. Religion has more in common with politics than it has differences. Chief amongst the commonality is that both control people. Christianity has been co-partners with politics right from the very beginning. But, let’s skip forward 300 years.

About 300 years after Jeebus’ death Constantine’s Roman empire forced its version of Christianity on the whole world. The “Christianity” of the Early Church (the original apostles, bishops, Paul, etc.) suddenly became very different as pagan Rome integrated into Christianity it’s many gods and religions. Every Christian in the world worships what the Roman empire decided s/he should worship ….. even the very books of the Bible! And, believe me, this is a very very big deal.

Today you have four gospels. The Early Church had many gospels …. accepting or rejecting any particular gospel seemed to be a personal decision. No one really gave a rats ass. Probably the first attempt to formally canonize the “officially allowed” reading list was the Muratorian Canon compiled in A.D. 170. And guess what? They rejected Hebrews, James, and 3 John!!

These pissing matches continued for about another 200 years until one of Constantine’s successors decided to put an end to it all in 363A.D. He picked a few clerics who convened the Council of Laodicea This changed history in a HUGE way. They decided what would and would not be included in the Bible or read at church. One day the Gospel Of Mary is OK to read … the next day it is a sin …. and all the teachings unique to that gospel are lost, or made unavailable, forever. Entire “doctrines” were eliminated, new ones implemented, and all of it done with the stroke of a human pen. God surely does roll in mysterious ways.

The Council also determined many other things; what is heretical, how Jews were to be regarded, church order and hierarchy, outlawing the Sabbath and making Sunday the official day of worship, and even how to enforce behavior of clerics and lay people ……… all based on how THEY and THE EMPEROR wanted things to be. They. Changed. Everything.

Oh, yes. Yes, indeed. Christianity got a Brand New Twist with Romanism. Peter supposedly was the first pope (or something like that), but I honestly 100% believe that he simply would not have recognized the 364 A.D. version of Christianity … it was that different. Rome crucified Jeebus a second time.

Christianity got a Second New Twist once Lex Luther came along. Man, oh man, did he ever change shit around! Jeebus is crucified a third time.

Christianity’s Third New Twist occurred once the American empire embraced it. Just like Rome bestowed on Christianity the meaning that best served its interests, so America is bestowing on Christianity the meaning that best serves its interests. A blond, blue-eyed Jesus who looks like he just stepped out of GQ, all meek and mild, and certainly no revolutionary who would dare rock the boat. In God we trust, and we bomb those who don’t, even asking for God’s protection in the process. God bless our troops!! Do you really think Matthew, Mark, Luke or John would actually recognize what we say Christianity is today? Really??? And Jesus has been crucified yet one more time.

I have to side with El Stucky here, which may be the only thing we ever agree on, but it’s enough.

Jesus Christ never claimed to be God, he claimed to be the son of God, which made them furious, because in biblical culture the son was afforded the same rights and honor as the father.

If Jesus had claimed to be God, he would have been dismissed as a lunatic. No man is god, it’s laughable to even consider it. Jesus Christ was a man, begotten of the father, and the only man God raised from the dead and set at his right hand.

Tuesday was the hebrew passover this year, meaning Christ would have been crucified on Mon, and risen today, Thursday. Hallelujah, Christ is risen. Praise the Lord God Almighty for infinite wisdom, grace, and mercy, hallelujah, hallelujah!

Gayle , Stucky, Admin ,….Christianity and politics should be enemies…How could you people be so dumb.This is one of the reasons the American government is so corrupt.Christianity has been taken out of politics ,out of the public square ,out of school ,out of society.This is reflecting what society becomes without a moral religious influence.

Dear Stucky ,how many times did Jesus say ….I and the Father are one..?I don’t have a bible with
Or I would look it up..
Admin, you really disappoint me with your biblical ignorance.Now go worshiper your insane,disease ridden god .You know the one .

Gayle ,the early church had many gospels is pure bullshit.There were many fake gospels Just read JUDE.In order for a letter to be recognized by the early church it had to be written by an apostle of Christ and witness by members of the early church.
If Christianity and politics does mix it is better then any godless ,degenerate atheist state.Look at the mass murdering states like Nazi Germany or Communist Russia.They were all godless and atheistic.
Your going find out here in America what the Jews learn in Germany.Only a matter of time.

Stucky, Show me the verse where Jesus says he was a revolutionary. Don’t make me infer, deduct, or solve a logical puzzle. Don’t make me add 1+1 to get 2. Show me. This is the logic you are applying.

Do you guys not see the hypocrisy in your logic? Author tries to use Bible stories to prove his thesis. Rebuttal is posted using the Bible. Supporters of article respond with ad hominem attacks, not educated replies citing a source. This is how liberals argue.

If you are right, post your source material. Don’t give us “Jesus said this and Jesus did that.” And then just make sweeping statements like you fundys are so ignorant. That’s just plain retarded. PRODUCE YOUR CAUSE. If you can’t then you are just posting bullshit yourself. If you think the Bible is bullshit, then don’t try to use it to support your article. Use something else.

Notice how I refute Stucky claim that the Romans killed Jesus because he intended to become King of the Jews. Funny how he just ignores this in his reply.

YOU are going to tell me what the Bible says. Then when I use the Bible to prove you wrong, I am a Bible thumping fundy. Please explain your logic to me. You can use the Bible to prove a point. I cannot. Do tell.

Now all you degenerate ,godless ,atheistic devil worshiping blow hards listen to Jesus…..I am the way,the truth and the life.NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME….JESUS is saying he is GOD.Not a god but the GOD AND EQUAL TO THE FATHER.Not a truth be the TRUTH.Not a life but the LIFE
You are lucky to have me around.Go ahead and admit it.I take the time to teach you and show you good things.Now GOD BLESS ALL OF YOU SHIT HEADS.

“About 300 years after Jeebus’ death Constantine’s Roman Empire forced its version of Christianity on the whole world. The “Christianity” of the Early Church (the original apostles, bishops, Paul, etc.) suddenly became very different as pagan Rome integrated into Christianity it’s many gods and religions.” -Stucky

My point exactly. However pure or corrupt the intentions of Theodosius (the emperor who actually proclaimed Christianity the state religion of the empire) the results were disastrous. Now in the name of Christianity, the sword of Rome continued to prevail, conquering lands and peoples across Europe.
As Shane Claiborne says, “The shift in the fourth century illuminates a strange tension evident throughout church history: Christianity is at its best when it is peculiar, marginalized, suffering, and it is at ifs worst when it is popular, credible, triumphal, and powerful.

bb-

I never said there were many gospels, and even if there were I believe that God is entirely capable of directing those who were evaluating writings to include or discard. So we have the four gospels we need, no more no less.

I agree with you that the loss of Christian influence in the public square is to be mourned. Some sleep better at night knowing that the bothersome 10 Commandments have been removed from schools and courthouses. Perhaps the moral cesspool we now reside in has something to do with that.

This is a different issue than the marriage of church and state. The state will always corrupt and misuse the church. How do you reconcile humility and pride, poverty and wealth, integrity and lies, power and weakness? When Christians look for solutions from government rather than from the promises of their faith, they will always get inferior results.

there are even more things promulgated in the gospel of the ny times, stuff like the 70’s mantra, why bring kids into this polluted world? and 50% of all marriages end in divorce. once folks internalized these things, there was no need to marry and have kids.

I think that god said,,,”The fuckers killed my son whom I sent to save them. Fuck them all, may they all kill each other and be done with it. Hmmm, there’s a nice planet over there,, nice, tall, blue hominids with carbon fiber bones. I can work with that.

No weirder than taking on faith alone that there’s an invisible man in the sky that sees and keeps tabs on everything we do and if we break just one of his rules, we’l burn in hell for all eternity,,, unless some guy in a dress, behind a screen in a small booth inside a big, tall building forgives us for our sin.

And if we don’t get to that guy in the dress before we die,,, too bad, so sad.

But now that you mention it, I don’t believe that time exists. It’s a mental construct so that we can function on the planet, plan, remember past events, learn from them etc.

We anthropomorphize the universe.

Big Bang? WE have a beginning and end, we have a limited “time” in this universe based on a certain number of revolutions around a star. So we adopt this beginning and end to explain red shift which has been somewhat inconsistent. The MATTER within the universe us moving away from itself at an accelerating rate, so how does the Big Bang fit?

Religion says that a god made the universe. When asked, well, where did god come from? They say, he always was and always will be.

To which I say, you can say the same about the Universe, it always was and always will be.

And yes, I agree that math has nothing to do with the Universe,,, math is a mental construct, and base ten comes from how many digits we have on our two hands. The Navi on Pandora have four on each hand so if they had math, musta been kinda weird from our point of view. Wonder if math with base 8 would be more, less efficient ? Hey, maybe with base ten, PI no prob.

Enough. Yeh, I have had enough. Perhaps it is mysteries, deciphering old empires, reliving, that keep the brain working from delapidating into some Alzheimer state. I’m done. No more mysteries to be solved. Only the love of my progeny, and family, keep me here.

Flaming wreckage. False flags. Politicians seeking power by altruistic shit they don’t believe in. Preachers molesting children. People shooting each other. Death in multitudes. Hatred in spades.. So much hate these days. So much BS. I don’t get it. I dont understand it. I can’t even want to try.

Anon, you sound like KB, your not thinking of checking out are you? It isn’t something Admin approves of. No taking the chickenshit way out, FEMA camp is the only excuse for leaving that he’ll accept. LLPOH, though, if you start sounding like a weak dick will invite you to eat the AK47. He’s only kidding, of course, if you really pussed out and did a swan dive, he’d laugh.