i fall asleep so badly! caffeine actually works for me usually, but i was wondering what else is there?

The time would not pass. Somebody was playing with the clocks, and not only the electronic clocks but the wind-up kind too. The second hand on my watch would twitch once, and a year would pass, and then it would twitch again.There was nothing I could do about it. As an Earthling I had to believe whatever clocks said -and calendars.”― Kurt Vonnegut, Slaughterhouse-Five

soma of the vedas comes too mind. the rishis were experienced meditators and raved about the usefulness of this chemical. although debate rages about what it was. so much that it could have been a stimulant that would work for buddhist meditation, or a hallucinogen that would be very much a precept violation and totally a hindrance too meditative development in the buddhist tradition (but perfect for meeting gods in vedic tradition!).

The time would not pass. Somebody was playing with the clocks, and not only the electronic clocks but the wind-up kind too. The second hand on my watch would twitch once, and a year would pass, and then it would twitch again.There was nothing I could do about it. As an Earthling I had to believe whatever clocks said -and calendars.”― Kurt Vonnegut, Slaughterhouse-Five

marc108 wrote:are you tired and falling asleep during the day or only during meditation?

i have plenty of energy during the day. but if i sit down and get too relaxed i sometimes can doze. but it's in no way abnormal. i don't get drowsy while driving or eating or anything like that. just during inactivity and mental relaxation, so really pretty standard. basically if the mental conditions for sleep are present, i start too drift. i fall asleep almost immediately at night when i lay down in bed and always have.

The time would not pass. Somebody was playing with the clocks, and not only the electronic clocks but the wind-up kind too. The second hand on my watch would twitch once, and a year would pass, and then it would twitch again.There was nothing I could do about it. As an Earthling I had to believe whatever clocks said -and calendars.”― Kurt Vonnegut, Slaughterhouse-Five

eyes open in a brightly lit room does not work, thanks though. standing up may, i'll give it a shot. can one enter jhana while standing?

The time would not pass. Somebody was playing with the clocks, and not only the electronic clocks but the wind-up kind too. The second hand on my watch would twitch once, and a year would pass, and then it would twitch again.There was nothing I could do about it. As an Earthling I had to believe whatever clocks said -and calendars.”― Kurt Vonnegut, Slaughterhouse-Five

also, what about nicotine? i don't use it, but it is a stimulant, no? does it help keep one awake?

The time would not pass. Somebody was playing with the clocks, and not only the electronic clocks but the wind-up kind too. The second hand on my watch would twitch once, and a year would pass, and then it would twitch again.There was nothing I could do about it. As an Earthling I had to believe whatever clocks said -and calendars.”― Kurt Vonnegut, Slaughterhouse-Five

nicotene is physically addictive and carcinogenic, so i wouldn't advise that. any legal chemicals you use to fight sloth and torpor will eventually become ineffective as your body adapts to maintain homeostasis. i think chemicals like caffeine are only useful if you are physically fatigued, which is sounds like you are not. i think it would be useful for you to study up on and explore the hindrance in depth and learn how to deal with it.

"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."

marc108 wrote:nicotene is physically addictive and carcinogenic, so i wouldn't advise that. any legal chemicals you use to fight sloth and torpor will eventually become ineffective as your body adapts to maintain homeostasis. i think chemicals like caffeine are only useful if you are physically fatigued, which is sounds like you are not. i think it would be useful for you to study up on and explore the hindrance in depth and learn how to deal with it.

i use caffeine only for meditation and for nothing else. and then only on my days off when i have time to really get a serious session in, so i don't think i will develop a tolerance. three doses of caffeine a week shouldn't be enough for a tolerance, right?

does nicotine alone cause cancer? i think it's mainly because it is usually ingested through smoking and all the chemicals in the leaves, and the smoke damage too the lungs that are the problem. if someone just used those e cigarettes they would be fine probably, or maybe not, i don't know.

The time would not pass. Somebody was playing with the clocks, and not only the electronic clocks but the wind-up kind too. The second hand on my watch would twitch once, and a year would pass, and then it would twitch again.There was nothing I could do about it. As an Earthling I had to believe whatever clocks said -and calendars.”― Kurt Vonnegut, Slaughterhouse-Five

marc108 wrote:nicotene is physically addictive and carcinogenic, so i wouldn't advise that. any legal chemicals you use to fight sloth and torpor will eventually become ineffective as your body adapts to maintain homeostasis. i think chemicals like caffeine are only useful if you are physically fatigued, which is sounds like you are not. i think it would be useful for you to study up on and explore the hindrance in depth and learn how to deal with it.

i use caffeine only for meditation and for nothing else. and then only on my days off when i have time to really get a serious session in, so i don't think i will develop a tolerance. three doses of caffeine a week shouldn't be enough for a tolerance, right?

does nicotine alone cause cancer? i think it's mainly because it is usually ingested through smoking and all the chemicals in the leaves, and the smoke damage too the lungs that are the problem. if someone just used those e cigarettes they would be fine probably, or maybe not, i don't know.

3 doses of caffeine per week shouldnt be enough to cause physiological dependance.

marc108 wrote:nicotene is physically addictive and carcinogenic, so i wouldn't advise that. any legal chemicals you use to fight sloth and torpor will eventually become ineffective as your body adapts to maintain homeostasis. i think chemicals like caffeine are only useful if you are physically fatigued, which is sounds like you are not. i think it would be useful for you to study up on and explore the hindrance in depth and learn how to deal with it.

i use caffeine only for meditation and for nothing else. and then only on my days off when i have time to really get a serious session in, so i don't think i will develop a tolerance. three doses of caffeine a week shouldn't be enough for a tolerance, right?

does nicotine alone cause cancer? i think it's mainly because it is usually ingested through smoking and all the chemicals in the leaves, and the smoke damage too the lungs that are the problem. if someone just used those e cigarettes they would be fine probably, or maybe not, i don't know.

3 doses of caffeine per week shouldnt be enough to cause physiological dependance.

The time would not pass. Somebody was playing with the clocks, and not only the electronic clocks but the wind-up kind too. The second hand on my watch would twitch once, and a year would pass, and then it would twitch again.There was nothing I could do about it. As an Earthling I had to believe whatever clocks said -and calendars.”― Kurt Vonnegut, Slaughterhouse-Five

Hi Johnny,You might as well look at your lifestyle. Ensure you are getting enough sleep, eating healthy food and regular exercise. These are 'chemical meditation enhancements' which are routinely overlooked.I would also look at how acute your sleepiness is during meditation. 'Sloth and torpor' is one of the five mental hindrances that manifests for all meditators. And it will manifest for you despite any lifestyle changes you make. Best to use the strategies as suggested to you above and to read the following work by Nyanaponika Thera.http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el026.htmlWishing you all the best,

Ben

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.” - Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:in mountain clefts and chasms,loud gush the streamlets,but great rivers flow silently.- Sutta Nipata 3.725

thanks! have these worked for you? does ginseng have a lot of bad side effects?

The time would not pass. Somebody was playing with the clocks, and not only the electronic clocks but the wind-up kind too. The second hand on my watch would twitch once, and a year would pass, and then it would twitch again.There was nothing I could do about it. As an Earthling I had to believe whatever clocks said -and calendars.”― Kurt Vonnegut, Slaughterhouse-Five

johnny wrote:thanks! have these worked for you? does ginseng have a lot of bad side effects?

From experience, gingko biloba is unqualifiably good. Taurine and guarana are like different forms of caffeine, but not remarkably different. As for ginseng, it's been a while since I've had it, and it predates my interest in meditation.

Either way, they're four things that are "this side of the line" that you could try and see how they work for you.

johnny wrote:thanks! have these worked for you? does ginseng have a lot of bad side effects?

From experience, gingko biloba is unqualifiably good. Taurine and guarana are like different forms of caffeine, but not remarkably different. As for ginseng, it's been a while since I've had it, and it predates my interest in meditation.

Either way, they're four things that are "this side of the line" that you could try and see how they work for you.

Metta,Retro.

i will give gingko a go i think! thank you sir!

The time would not pass. Somebody was playing with the clocks, and not only the electronic clocks but the wind-up kind too. The second hand on my watch would twitch once, and a year would pass, and then it would twitch again.There was nothing I could do about it. As an Earthling I had to believe whatever clocks said -and calendars.”― Kurt Vonnegut, Slaughterhouse-Five