The writer is author, most recently of, “The Apricot Road to Yarkand”
(Sang-e-Meel, 2011) and a member of the Royal Geographical Society
[email protected]

Every single Muslim in the subcontinent believes s/he is of Arab descent. If not direct Arab descent, then the illustrious ancestor had come from either Iran or Bukhara. Interestingly, the ancestor is always a great general or a saint. Never ever have we heard anyone boasting of an intellectual for a forebear. We hear of the progeny of savage robber kings, but there is no one who claims Abu Rehan Al-Beruni or Ibn Rushd as a distant sire.

Arab origin is the favourite fiction of all subcontinental Muslims. Most claim their ancestor arrived in Sindh with the army under Mohammad bin Qasim (MbQ). But, I have heard of lineages reaching back to Old Testament prophets as well. An elderly Janjua (Rajput), from the Salt Range told me of a forefather named Ar, a son of the Prophet Isaac. Ar, he said, was the ancestor of the races that spoke the Aryan tongue!

Touted as a local intellectual, this worthy was unmindful of the fact that Aryan was not a tribal name but a linguistic classification. Neither could he tell me how the name Ar, not being in the Old Testament, had reached him. He insisted this name headed his family tree and was, therefore true. The chart, written on a piece of rather newish paper had been, the Janjua insisted, copied from an old original. The original was of course destroyed after the copy was made.

The Arains flaunt Salim al Raee as their father — the clan being called after his surname. A great and valiant general in the army of MbQ, this man was from an agricultural family of Syria, so the Tarikh-e-Araian tells us. Closer to our times, the Arains are indeed acclaimed for their green thumb for which reason Shah Jehan relocated a large bunch of them to mind the newly laid out Shalimar Garden of Lahore. Today, they are a very rich clan in Baghbanpura.

The Tarikh expounds on this fictional ancestor’s noble background and courage in battle to the extent that he almost outshines MbQ. But it does not give us any source or reference for the rubbish that sullies its pages. There are two authentic histories of the Arab conquest of Sindh. Ahmad Al Biladhuri’s Futuh ul Buladan (written circa 860) and Hamid bin Ali Kufi’s Tarikh-e-Hindwa Sindh, translated first into the Persian as Fatehnama Sindh and then into Sindhi as the Chachnama (written circa 1200).

There are dozens of names sprinkled across the pages of both works, but no mention is made of a blue-blooded warrior called Salim al Raee. There are other histories besides these two works which also disregard this name for the only reason that such a man never existed.

The Awans, similarly, have a fictional ancestor called Qutb Shah from the line of the last caliph of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs. My friend Kaiser Tufail, an Arain, has had himself genetically tested from the US. He has no trace of Arab blood. His line comes from what is now Uzbekistan and has lived from early historic times in the subcontinent. The rest of us of this clan will see similar results should we go through this exercise. Kaiser had his son-in-law, an Awan, also tested. He, too, is singularly clean of Arab genes.

Most of us are the progeny of converts. In their need to escape the discrimination of the so-called higher castes, our ancestors converted to a religion that in theory claimed to profess human equality regardless of colour or caste. I use the words ‘in theory’ because even as the Arabs converted our ancestors to Islam, they discriminated against them for being “Hindis” as we learn this from Ibn Batuta’s own prejudices. And he is not alone.

Consequently, even after conversion, my ancestors, poor agriculturists, were looked down upon by the Arabs and even those who had converted earlier the same way as they were by the Brahmans when they professed their Vedic belief. Within a generation or two, those early converts began the great lie of Arab ancestry to be equal to other converts and the Arabs. This became universal with time.

The challenge then is for all those, Baloch, Pathan, Punjabi et al, who have invented illegitimate fathers for ourselves to get ourselves tested and know the bitter truth.

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Reader Comments (146)

I am glad the author mentioned two authentic histories of the present region of Pakistan. I read the Chachnama in detail. The sindhu region had sea of humanity of buddhists and hindu and in between living there even before Chachnama was written. Uzbech, Persian, Greek, Indo gene pool comprised these humanity.

Arab gene pool in the subcontinent is limited to Kerala and Gujarat in India and pockets of modern day Karachi region. And they were mainly traders who established colonies and some even married locally. I must add all these happened even before the origin of Islam.

Pakistan claiming Arab ancestry is akin to Bangladesh claiming Arab ancestry in the name of Islam.

The myth of Pakistanis to be of Arab descent and not overwhelmingly to be Hindus who converted to Islam under Islamic rule, must be preserved. It’s the basis of Pak nationhood. Remember what Mr Jinnah said. ‘Pakistan was born the day first Hindu converted to Islam”.
Let Pakistanis spend there resources claiming to be Arabs. I dont want Pakistanis to claim that they are like Indians. That may give Indians a bad name.Recommend

It is reasonable to think that many folks in subcontinent were converts or had some relation to different religions or races. The language Urdu / Hindi is a proof of such mixing. My Question to the author is if he can give any reference of his work? Or if any such historical documents exist today such as shajra-e-nasb or family trees and he took a word of few wise men and published this theory.

The Janjuas of Punjab, the Junejas of India and the Junejos of Sindh are all descendants of Rajputs and not Arabs.

Most Pakistanis are of Hindu Indian descent even though they may claim to be Syeds or of Arabic ancestry. Unfortunately, with a distorted view of history, people do not realize that Arabs were invaders and Mohammed Bin Qasim conquered Sindh and as conquerors, the Arabs looked down upon the indigenous population and enslaved them.

The Ansaris of Sindh are the descendants of Arabs while the Sheikhs are the most recent Hindu converts.

I myself come from Sayed clan with family tree stretching to Mashhad Iran, our great grand was Adam settled in current tribal areas hence the name Darra Adam Khail, and there is a branch of our clan in that area, then from there our grands travelled to Kashmir region and from there to Pothowar region. Apart from Arabs we surely have Iranians, Azeri Turkish, Indians and Mangol blood is in our vains, not sure many of my relatives will agree with me though.Recommend

Salman Sahib is absolutely right, Muslims of India and Pakistan wish to be identified with Arab or Persian ancestry. We too have our family tree linking us to Baghdad, when I told my Arab/Iraqi friend of this link he could not stop laughing. Never again.

Sorry to the writer, but the descendents of most of the people from Indian Gujarat who got converted to Islam in the 15th century and later in 19th century were all hindus before and i have no qualm to say that i am one of them. Therefore most of the people of Karachi coming from all parts of undivided India have been the converts after the 15th century.

There are some Pakistanis who have arab descent. Those are mostly from Yemen who settled in Pakistan not long ago and they talk among themselves in Arabic but with others in Urdu. There are others who settled centuries ago like Qureshis. Now these Quraishis may either be the ones before Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) was born in their clan or after because keep in mind they were big merchants. Many Pakistanis are either Indian or Iranian. Afghanis are also related to Iranians. So it’s not wrong when some Pakis claim that they have Arab descent because some really do. But majority of them don’t. Even Indians themselves are mixed and some are Arab and some are Iranian and most are actual Indians

I always hear Pakistanis going on long diatribes against Hindus and India. Supposedly, Hindus are very money minded, greedy, allied with Jews etc. The one thing they forget is that they are the descendants of those same Hindus! I wish I could take Pakistanis in a time machine; I’m sure they could find 99% of their ancestors chanting “om jai jagadeesh” somewhere. If only their ancestors knew that their descendants would convert to a religion brought by invaders, toss aside their family namesRecommend

I would support if Pakistan introduced a resolution in UN declaring “Pakistanis to be a people of Arab descent.” All Pakistani ambassadors should fan out all accross the globe to spread that message. Paid advertisements should be taken out in al major news papers , including in all Arab and Gulf papers, informing the Arabs that Pakistanis now are “people of Arab descent”.

@Light Rather than look at family trees, one can always do DNA testing. It is easy to change our stories, but not our blood. Whenever a Pakistani needs a blood transplant in any corner of the world, it is the blood of another Indian or Pakistani which provides the best match, not that of an Arab.

@Liberal Converting is not bitter truth; the author means that those who deny their true ethnic heritage should know the truth that they are not Arabs.

>Every single Muslim in the subcontinent believes s/he is of Arab descent

Did you ask “every single Muslim in the sub-continent?”
The first six words of your article stopped me from reading further. Please don’t exaggerate.
I, for instance, know about 30,000 living souls, in the valley where I was born, and none of them associates themselves with the Arabs. And, to your surprise, all of them were born Muslims and majority of them offer prayers five times a day!!Recommend

Are ancestors of Hindu Punjabis different from ancestors of Muslim Punjabis ?
Are ancestors of Hindu Kashmiris different from ancestors of Muslim Kashmiris ?
Are ancestors of Hindu Sindhis, Gujratis, Bengalis, Biharis, Tamils, UP-ites different from from ancestors of Muslim Sindhis, Gujratis, Bengalis, Biharis, Tamils, UP-ites ?

You are 100% true sir , Nice read . Truth comes out on any cost . The fact is No Muslim want to hear that Their ancestor were converted from Hindus while everyone in the heart knows this bitter truth . the most blatant example is If you look the muslim andd hindus of south India you won’t able to recognize just by looking who is Hindu and who is Muslim . similarly if you look on The person from UP-Bihar you won’t able to tell who is from which religion unless they themselves reveal it .

do not waste time in tracing your lineage, instead try to focus on future which might be helpful for all of us. whether we are arabs or we are any thing else, now that we have a country we should burn our midnight oil to set on the track of progress, and avoid those comments, I just observed above that of Mr Babloo!

Always find Salman Rashid very interesting but this time he has outdone himself. Kudos to you sir for highlighting a very basic fact.

We are recent converts, official conversion date is 1859 and recognize and accept with pride our Hindu heritage. We are of the lohana caste and share this heritage with Jinnah. Though Pakistani historians who would rather identify with Arab ancestory often mislead readers into believing Jinnah also had heritage foreign to the Indian subcontinent.

Gujerat was always a trading point and port of contact for Arab traders, however it is during the Fatimid Caliphate period during the 10th and 11th century based in Egypt which saw the Abassid Caliphate in Iraq and Baghdad as rivals, that the the first Dai’s (Missionaries doing Dawa) were sent by this group to encourage conversions. As traders the contacts was with the trader caste of Lohanas and there was the first seed of germination to induce the same to convert to Islam. This has continued thru a period of several centuries culuminating in a mass conversion in the Kutch area of Gujerat in 1859 offering bayit to a religious leader.

In Sindh and Punjab Pirs like Sachal Sar Mast and Qalander Shah have won fealty to Islam by exemplery behaviour. But the majority of the people from the area are of Hindu origin and even in the most difficult times of partition and seperation did not reject their common heritage. Thanks to General Zia a completely new idea of Arab ancestory was given birth to, and rejection of the acknowledgement of a common Hindu heritage made a distortion of actual history.

I would highly recommend a book by a “Al-Hind: the making of the Indo-Islamic world” by Andre Wink. It recounts the Arab conquest of Sindh, and the subsequent enslavement of many of the conquered Indians. Many Indians were sent to work in the sugar plantations of Iraq as slaves. Women worked in Arab households. Many of these enslaved Indians took part in the Zanj rebellion in Iraq which lasted 15 years and was bloodily suppressed. To appreciate the scale of the slavery, something like 1/2 million took part in this rebellion.

Although the Iranians were also got conquered by the Arabs. There is big difference between Pakistanis and Iranians. Iranians are very proud of their ancestry and civilization. They go to great lengths to differentiate themselves from Arabs. They like to boast that the desert Arabs got their culture and civilization from the Iranians. If you want to make an Iranian really angry tell him he is an Arab !

Mr Rashid seems to miss the point. Let me explain. There is a difference between the physical and the mental; there is difference between ones aspirations and molecular structure. When a person says he is an Arab, he is showing his identification.
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For example I am a Jat, a Punjabi (from Ludihana, in Hindi Punjab), but I abhor being labeled Hindi. My mindset is that of an Afghan, a Turk, and an Iranian. It was the Afghan genius and their spirit of Adventure that transformed the Punjabis and Sindhi firstly to emulate them, and then, over time, become like them in spirit. Who cares about the DNA. You are what you think you, and not what others would like to you to think of yourself as.
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Before the spread of Islam to the lands of Afghania, Iran, and Pakia, outlook on life, and of life, might have been different, but Islam changed the line of thinking of these people.
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Modern day inhabitants of these aforementioned lands are a MENTALLY NEW PEOPLE, with shared values, with shared experiences of life, shared alphabet, shared names and nomenclature.
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Our (the people of Iran, Pakia, and Afghania) mind sets have been infused and are now powered by the Arab Spirit.
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Mr Rashid, measured on the DNA parameter, people may not be Arab, but believe me they are Arab in most other ways. In my case my identification is totally with the Afghans. I recognize not the Durand line: the Afghan frontier is on the Plains of Panipat, and the Paki border is on the other side of the Amu Darya.
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@Ali Tanoli.: So u think there are no arab blood exist in sub continent i object Mr Salman then where the
hell these sadat come from?????????
I agree with you Ali, all this genetic mapping is CIA, Mosad, MI6 and RAW conspiracy.

I wonder what claims are made by Pakistani hindus and south indian muslims regarding their ancestry. And Pakistanis should not give up their claim of Arab ancestry. Otherwise there will be nothing to argue and rant about.

To get answer they need to have genes tested . Population of KSA is 20 million now and Sadat sadat, Siddiqui, farooqui, jafferies and more should be 20 million in sub continent. It seems that at one point half of KSA population moved to India

General Jacob in India traces his family history to Iraqi Jewish heritage. India in the 1300s lost wars to many Islamic invaders and the ransom included women who were taken as slaves and gifted away to the Iraqi kings, nobles, soldiers and other local citizens. It is very likely due to harsh whether conditions or other difficulties such as cultural assimilation issues their offspring may have migrated back to undivided India before the partition.

great article. even Indin muslims feel they sre different. They feel they are from middle east. I guess the only reason is the religion. When you sre muslim, you identify with the best possible muslim, Prophet mihammed, who was arab.

But these same muslims will sing another tune when they are in USA. They will claim they are from India to get better respectability. Everybody knows the value of a arab in the west.

“Every single Muslim in the subcontinent believes s/he is of Arab descent.” – Wrong, It is the fiction/folly of Pakistani Muslims and not all subcontinental Muslims. Some how the author seems to forget that the largest Muslim population in the world is in India and i don’t know of single Muslim friend of mine who would agree with the author.. Recommend

Instead of Religion the differentiation should have been on race basis. Indian subcontinent is the only country that is home to people of all races – Aryan, Dravidian, Mongoloid and Negroid. Indian subcontinent always remained open to new ideas and accepted all faiths. That was the reason that centuries ago Zoroastrians and Jews who were being persecuted fled to India. That our subcontinent gave the World not just Hinduism but also Jainism, Sikhism and Buddhism should be a matter of pride not shame. In old Punjab the first son in every Hindu family was often offered to the Sikh faith out of reverence to Guru Nanak.

My parents claim to be descended from Abu bakar siddiq(R.A.) I am not sure if its true or not though lol
@ Dr Javaid chaudri
Don’t call us pakia its rude. Plus I am sorry but I think arabs and Pakistanis are extremely different.

@ Indian: I would suggest that you read up more on the Muslim population around the world. India does not host the largest Muslim population in the world, Sir. According to Pew research centre, Indonesia hosts the biggest Muslim population, with Pakistan in the second place. And yes, Pakistan hosts a Muslim population that is larger in size, as compared to the one in India. I suggest you browse throughhttp://pewresearch.org/ and/
or visithttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ListofcountriesbyMuslim_population#List
And by the way, we seem to have digressed from the topic at hand. So what if we do not have Arabic descent, and so what if some of us do.
As a third person, i see no purpose that this article serves, apart from dispelling notions of some of the Pakistanis who think they have Arab lineage.
Bottom line. Islam is a religion of equality for all, so it should not matter what our pasts are and who our fore-fathers were as long as we a clear, straight path ahead of us from where we stand.

Most of the Indians and pakistanis are mixture of races from successive waves of migrations to the subcontinent at different periods of time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeneticsandarchaeogeneticsofSouth_Asia

There are Muslims who claim direct descendents from Prophet just as there are Hindus who claim direct descendence for Rama (surya vansis)

People make up these stories.

Shivaji the Hindu rebel king at the time of Emperor Aurangazeb was refused coronation by brahmani\s as he was Shudra . His ministers went to Benares and bribed and got a head priest to make up a geneology to claim direct decendence for Rama so that he could be crowned as Kshatriya.
People all over the world want to claim kinship to powerful and rich.

To claim superiority over your fellow human beings on basis of your birth is racist

I am not negatively proud of my ancestors, however I am proud of them because they did not compromise on their conscience even though they were forced out of their homeland. As well as family tree chart is concerned that is amended by every successive generation. There is circumstantial evidence that my ancestors were foreigners in Pothowar, because only our village has a Arabic name, while all other villages have Sansakrit based names. Someone mentioned why there are more people associating themselves with Arab ancestory in India than Saudia, knowing well that all Saudis are not Hijazi. The answer is simple, in modern history there are more Irish outside Ireland than in Ireland, similarly there are more Lebanese living outside Lebanon. Having said that I am very proud of the my land which gave refuge to my grands, I love my Arabs, Iranian, Azeri Turk, Mongol and Indian heritage :)Recommend

@rk singh:
” even Indian muslims feel they are different. They feel they are from middle east.”

Dude are you sure? Using the identity of being a Muslim to secure a job in the oil rich middle east (which is predominantly Islamic in faith) for economic benefits is one thing and claiming to be an Arab (which is a racial identity with genetic undertones) is another. If you have an issue with Muslims, please settle it otherwise. I don’t know a single Indian Muslim friend of mine at least here in South India who identifies himself racially as an Arab. They like to identify themselves very much as a Indian Muslims but not folly themselves racially as an Arab.

An excellent article by the author presenting the facts about the origin of Muslims in both countries and myth of Arab origin which Pakistanis are fed with. However, some of Muslim clans in Pakistan do have their origin from Arabs as well but majority were converted which is well documented and details available on web. Most of the conversions started for seventh century onwards when Arabs invaded united India. Majority of Muslim converts were from Jat and Rajput clans who were strong, chose either agriculture or soldiering as their proffessions and joined the invaders army. These conversions continued again from 10 to 13th, 19th century till 1947. Jat and Rajput clans mostly converted to either Muslims or Sikhs whereas the rest continued in their original faiths. Due to conversions taken place for centuries, many of the Rajputs and Sikhs in India have common castes with Muslims in Pakistan namely with Sikhs ie Atwal, Aulakh, Bains, Bajwa, Bal, Basra, Bhangu, Bhinder, Gill, Boporai, Chahal, Johal, Cheema, Dhillon, Kahlon, Batth, Kang, Malik, Randhawa, Sandhu, Sidhu, Sangha, Sipra, Toor, Virk etc and with Rajputs– Waraich, Wahla, Uttara, Uppal, Tatlah, Dawana, Khar, Panun, Natt, Ghumman, Hundal, Takhar etc. Hope this article is published in Urdu, as well clearing the misconceptions in the minds of many Pakistanis.

I’m an Arain and I have heard/read similiar stories. I have read the book you have mentioned. I guess most probably Arains are from Aryan. But one thing is for sure Arains are descendents of converts or natives of sub-continent and have no connection whatsoever with the Arab people.

I don’t want to be too rude , but thing is that pakistanis are most confused people on earth . They believe that they have Arabian genes , but fact is that they are converts . A country which is established on the basis of religion , a country where weapons are named after the names of invaders and history is being manipulated is bound to be confused . Lastly I would say those who are fed lies , breed violence .

Hats off to the author. I got my DNA test done and I am a member of the haplogroup r* from my father side. My moms mitochondrial DNA group is N*. I am a Indian sikh for references. SSA, peace .cheerio.

The Holy Prophet (PBUH), saidO people! Your God is one and your forefather (Adam) is one. An Arab is not better than a non-Arab and a non-Arab is not better than an Arab, and a red (i.e. white tinged with red) person is not better than a black person and a black person is not better than a red person, except in piety.

So aren’t those looking for ‘superiority’ via their alleged Arab descent, violating the teachings of the Prophet(PBUH)

I don’t know about Arains or Awans, but Janjua’s definitely claim to have descended from one Muslim convert named Raja Mal Dev. Raja Mal converted to Islam at the hands of a Sufi. And every Janjua I’ve ever met knows this. Origins of the Janjuas are definitely not as obscure as you make them sound to be.Recommend

As a punjabi who has spend all her life abroad, im starved for information about history of Pakistan and (yes) India (because my grandparents- even my aunties and uncles born before 1947 were born India). Hence this article was very interesting for me, I had no clue that most Pakistanis believe such non- sense and only some comments made me realise that what the author is saying is something controvesial in Pak.
My parents have just told us that our ancestors were probably Punjabi Hindus who converted at some point. See not all Pakistani have inferiorty issues and can handle the truth and dont need elaborate lies to make themselves feel better.

Also why would anyone want to be Arab, I think most Pakistani has a romantised view about them because The Holy Prophet(saw) was an Arab.Recommend

Khaled Hassan would have written a far better article. The very first line of this article is enough to tell you that the author is hugely generalizing. Not every single Pakistani claims that he is of Arab origin. We know very well that the overwhelming majority of Pakistanis are a mixture of Sakas, Vedic Aryans, white Huns, Turks, Arabs, Kushans, Balochs and Pashtuns who came and settled in the Indus valley in the last three millennium. If some were Hindus (mostly Punjabis) then it was just their belief and not their ethnicity. I have met many Turks (from Turkey) who claimed that they were “Syeds”. Many nations around the world, deliberately or indeliberately, create a mythical identity for some reasons and Pakistanis are not the only people if they have done so. Turks (from Turkey) claim that they are the direct descendants of those nomads who came and conquered Anatolia half a millennium ago, although most of them are Turkanized anatolians and we also know how much Europeans they are. Arabs claim that they are the progenies of Ismael which can not be proved. Germans are a mixture of Slavic, Germaic and Celtic people. Americans are not Anglo-Saxon. I can go on and on. So, please stop pulling the legs of Pakistani people.

@Dr Jamil Chaudri:
I wonder if the Afghans, Iranians and Turks would be too happy to be associated with you and/or Arabs. I lived in Iran and I know that Iranians are very proud of their culture and they look down on Arabs (whom they see as barbarians) and also on Pakistanis and consider themselves much more developed and refined. I think also Turks wouldn’t be too happy to be be compared with Arabs, as they themselves also have a very strong and distinct culture and actually used to rule part of the Arab world at some stage. I’m not sure about Afghanis, but I do wonder if they would feel even a slight affiliation with you.

Besides, in Pakistan the Baloch, Pakhtuns and Sindhis also have their own distinctive culture and therefore do not need to pretend to be something else than they actually are.

Why not owe up to the fact that your roots are in India? Do you think you are a lesser Muslim or a worse person if you admit it?

Let me confuse the Pakistanis even further. They forget that large swaths of present day Afghanistan and Pakistan were Buddhist too at a juncture in history….denying your roots ensures that nothing strong and viable ever takes root. I hv lived for long in Arab countries and have observed that Pakistanis,though a wonderfully warm and gracious people,tend to be overly obsequious towards Arabs…..and the Arabs usually are disdainful of them. Being Muslims is one thing but why such compulsion to identify with another distant race? Or is it because they have been told such ‘official’ lies about the ‘dark and cunning’ Hindus that they would rather believe a myth than acknowledge their subcontinental ancestary?

I thought being of Arab descent was considered bad as Arabs have had no civilization ever what so ever. So why would Pakistanis want to claim descent from such a backward people who are not respected ? Please explain ?

Your comments suggest that being an Arab is better, and identifying with Arabs, somehow, puts you on a higher pedestal. Apparently, you are ashamed of his ancestry.

Don’t be heart broken if others call you a non-Arab, because you are. The only commonality between you and the Arabs is your religion. Please don’t confuse yourself between religion and race. Just as your own parents were, you also should be proud of your Punjabi origins.

@ Babloo
Arabs were uncivilized and backward peoples before islam and then islam made them civilized and most respected peoples on earth so its not arabs its a beauty of islam and we love arabs just for prophet Muhammad (pbuh) although we are indian muslims and one more
thing to mention here most of UP muslims who called muhajir them self in karachi hyderabad
have last names with arab names identity but native pakistanis have there orignals last names.

Well, we would rather be “unhygienic call center workers” than “clean, spotless terrorists“. Hurt much? That is called stereotyping. I would rather not do it to the Pakistanis. In any case, the stereotyping of Indians (read Hindus) as ‘dirty and black’ is something I have noticed regularly by Pakistanis. It reeks of racism. Not because you say we are “black”… heck I couldn’t care less but for the association of the word “dirty” that always accompanies it. I guess it stems from (perhaps) a collective mindset that Pakistanis are somehow genetically different from Indians. Live long and prosper.

lame article. hope people would stop making such sweeping statements. I live in Lahore and have yet to find “all the muslims of subcontinent” who claim descent from Arabs. Among my own circle of friends only 3 claim that descent and they have proof to legitimise that claim and none of them have an amazingly awesome General as an ancestor. Before making such judgements please take the time to actually see the reality. Taking Punjab’s case more than half the population calls itself Jatt/Rajput/Virk or some other LOCAL clan. They all know that these are purely hindu castes and have no connection whatsoever with arabs.

So true. We are all syeds, mirzas, usmanis, farooqis and so on. Its just mind blowing but then our penchant for massacres might mean that it is actually true. We came we murdered the local populace and stock 50 women in our harems, so it is entirely scientifically possible, isnt it?

Ibn Batuta during his travels to India had found it amusing that many new Indian Muslims (I assume local converts, not foreign Muslim migrants) would take up the sir name ‘Syed’ – a claim of being linked to the Prophet’s (SAW) family. Just like it was revered in Arabia and Persia, the honourable title in a sense would take on new life in South Asia, almost with a caste twist.

A shared trend of giving divinity to descendants with such titles would be practiced further in South Eastern Asia, such as Indonesia. The Sultan of Brunei actually uses the ‘Sharif’ title as a divine justification of his reign and students are literally taught this, along with claims of miraculous powers, in their social studies

It’s true that under different Turkish empires many Arabs, along with Turks, would move, settle and integrate in ‘Hind’ in search of fortune or other administrative duties, besides other eras of past refugees, traders or invaders, and there would always be continuous middle eastern mass migrations, such as recent modern times of Iranian families migrating to Hyderabad in the early 20th century due to famine, but a good number (like, in the millions) of Pakistani and Indian Muslims and other non-Arab Asian Muslims claiming such large shared heritage to the Prophet’s (SAW) family just seems hard to believe, considering migrations to and from the rest of Asia and Africa as well.

Who knows (except those who’re brave enough to take blood tests), probably more Pakistani folks are related to Mongolians as far as Genghis Khan than to Arab nobility (or not). But hey…if Euro-centric Israelis can delude themselves and re-imagine their ‘divine’ historic religio-nationalist narrative, us Indo-centric (or anti-Indo-centric) confused desis certainly can do the same….

One thing’s for sure…our national Anthem is definitely more Persian in origin than Arab, with only ‘Ga’ being the only distinct Urdu word in it…er…more to do with our Turkish heritage than Indian or other Asian commonality, I’m sure!

All those who follow an Arab are Arabs. It is easy to recognise them by the names and their Arabian practices. Indians have names based on cultural , spiritual mileu of the land while non Indians take pride in their forefathers who came as invaders, looters, robers and rapists from medieval era . Its all in mind, identification and the values. People are free to enjoy the honor of being the children of unknown alien fathers while many might take it as offence of highest degree and challenge to their human dignity, soul and blood. Since no other society downgrade and demean itself so low,it is question of civilizational mooring and obviously weaker section will identify with strong and try to justify the existance, no matter how low on hierarchical level. More like House Nigger asking How we Arab Muslim Doing.
Babloo is right, Indics have gone through century of Agni Pariksha to keep their names and soul thus shedding the weak ones in the process and should not be insulted by Pakistani claiming to share their blood or heritage.

Maulana Abul Kalam Azad:” It was India’s historic destiny that many human races and cultures should flow to her, finding a home in her hospitable soil, and that many a caravan should find rest here. . . . Eleven hundred years of common history [of Islam and Hinduism] have enriched India with our common achievements. Our languages, our poetry, our literature, our culture, our art, our dress, our manners and customs, the innumerable happenings of our daily life, everything bears the stamp of our joint endeavour. . . . These thousand years of our joint life [have] moulded us into a common nationality. . . .Whether we like it or not, we have now become an Indian nation, united and indivisible. No fantasy or artificial scheming to separate and divide can break this unity. “from Azad’s Congress Presidential Address, 1940)

President Of Indian National Congress and India’s first educational minister
Devout practicing Muslim
Jawaharlal Nehru referred to him as Mir-i- Karawan (the caravan leader), “a very brave and gallant gentleman, a finished product of the culture that, in these days, pertains to few”.[15] “The Emperor of learning” remarked Mahatma Gandhi about Azad counting him as “a person of the calibre of Plato, Aristotle and Pythagorus.
Jinnah described him as “Muslim Lord Haw-Haw” and a “Congress Showboy.”

people of Indian subcontinent should proud of their origin i.e Indus vally origin . I find People of Indian subcontinent much more better in every aspect than Arabs . I find , Jatts , Baloch , Pathan , sindhi , Mohajir , sheikhs much more civilized and static than Arab . It’s the biggest lie ever that the Arabs are superior . the only thing we are behind of Arab is that we have less money than they have because of oil . Arabs in reality are still savage . the present syria , lebnon , Iraq , or even saudi Arabia are example of how much savage they are . They only knows the art of Fight even in 21st century .

Pakistanis want to be associated with Arabs because they think anything Arab/Muslim is superior and anything Hindu is inferior. Pakistanis will deny with all their might, and even when presented with repeated and irrefutable evidence, that they have blood of their Hindu ancestors coursing through their veins. Their Hindu ancestors could not resist the zeal of Muslim Arabs to convert them to Islam for centuries and centuries. Finally the Hindus of the present day Pakistan converted to Islam and became Muslims. Simple. But no. Pakistanis went to go to great lengths to hide this fact and cover up their origins because they did not want to be associated as descendants of a defeated and enslaved people. Rather they try to associate with the Arabs, and later the Turks and Afghans conquers of their Hindu ancestors and feel stronger and superior. This is only natural as no human being wants to associate with failure and defeat and only want to be in the camp of the victors.

Addressing such issues marred in the dust of history necesarily require some knowledge of ancient history of Sindh, its demographics and how knowledge was transferred from Sindhu to the hinterlands of the subcontinent. Assumptions based on Isdlamic history alone as it has been distorted against the knowledge of Sindh History are not sufficient. One also need insights into the history of Iran and greater Eurasia, particularly Cental Asia. Obviously, many, indeed many groups have historically changed their ancestries for gaining political power and that is not a new thing. In history we will find many royal families guilty of this.as well. Agriculturalist groups have not necessarily changed their ancestries, but followed the tradition created at least by one of the family members. Author also seriously consider the fact the among Indian Muslims many groups called the child born on Friday as Syed, when Syed means someone from the ancestry of Holy Prophet. Blaming any group now, when beither historical nor chronological traces could be established is inappropriate. How about the insufficient knowledge of several historians who have mismatched the identities of several families and tribes of the Indus and Amu Daraya Basins. I particularly cite the example of Samma and Samani. Even scholars as great as Abu-al-Fazul of the Court of Mughal Emperor made serious mistakes, although he grew up in Sehwan Sharif in Sindh and possessed some clear deep insights. I wish the journalist Salman Rashid had not touched the subject as an outsider making more mess than assisting to resolve such issues. I also wish that some scholar had taken these issues and analyzed the very processes involved in the subject matter. He will be surprised, if I introduced him to several intercultural and linguistic contacts between far far Siberia and Mongolia, as well as Slavic Russia and andcient Sindh and Sindhi language. Only a few historians involved in research in broader Eurasia have discoved such new aspects, but feel very much discouraged writing about their experiences. As for I am concerned “Writing for Whom?”, those accustomed to not reading, but looking at books on shelves. Salman Rashid must first learn history and afterwards adress these issues. Otherwise he is stereotyping more than already has had been.

@Avi “no human being wants to associate with failure and defeat and only want to be in the camp of the victors.”

The tide is turning again in this game of the universe. Bihari is used as a derogatory term in India, the same Bihar which was the administrative, cultural, economic centre of Asia at one point of time. In the same way, the word arabic has started to have negative and derogatory connotations.

Honestly people who are claiming this is an excellent article take a look around you. How many among your friends say thery have arab origins. If you yourself are from a family of arab descent then by default your other family members are that too so stop looking at your family and look at your friends and other acquaintances. I repeat again I have not come across a super majority of Pakistanis as claimed by the author who say they are arabs. What I have come across are tons of people who say they are jatts, rajputs, virks and so on and are damn proud of it. None of them is insane enough to say that I am a Jatt and you know my Great Grandfather was a sufi saint of arab origin. I wait for the day when people stop making such all encompassing statements and others just follow them just because they think a certain person is very “well read”. Honestly only observe and you will know how much truth is in this article. For all the others, I am a Jatt/Rajput due to mixing of bloodlines and I am damn proud of it. There is no bitter truth in this. I am a son of the soil and there is no hard feeling in that. Only my religion is different from the others who claim same descent!

I wonder what gain there is in claiming Arab ancestory. That’s the last thing anyone would aspire for – being an Arab. I guess the only incentive is not being branded as either of illegitimate origin – almost all the invaders looted and raped at will – or continue being discriminated as lower castes even after conversion.

I heard of cases where young girls are married to old Arabs. These are usually temporary marriages after the Arabs has satisfied his lust the poor girl is discarded.

When I was visiting Egypt as a tourist I was told by my taxi driver that his grandmother was from India. Anthropologists call this hypergamy. A term for marrying up. We believe that Arabs are higher status or superior to us so we give our girls to them.
I find such practices disgusting and embarrassing. It humiliating that we feel so inferior with respect to the Arabs.

@Avi: ” …. Pakistanis went to go to great lengths to hide this fact and cover up their origins because they did not want to be associated as descendants of a defeated and enslaved people. … “

Foolish endeavour with foolish results. One must look at things in perspective. The British ruled over India, the Romans ruled over the British – so everybody has been ruled over by somebody else at some point in time. Look at the “Romans” now – reduced to an inconsequential power.

And it is highly erroneous to say that Hindus did not put up a fight. If we hadn’t put up a fight – socially or militarily, we’d be all Muslims by now. (Leftist historians will tell you that the foreign rulers were largely secular)

Very well articulated. Actually a similar trend is found among Anglo-Indians (mixed British-Indian stock), who betrays an inferiority complex with regard to their Indian connection and at the same time suffer from a delusional sense of supremacy out of the British connection.

@Avi:
The only reason the Indian subcontinent fell to the invaders was because there was too much divisiveness and infighting among the rulers at that time; not because it was weak. It should be noted that at that time, there were more than 500 principalities and rulers in the subcontinent. So it was possible for an invader with a large organized force to “knock down” these little kingdoms like nine pins one by one. Even a small tribal Mongol chief, like Genghis Khan was able to conquer the mighty Chinese Empire simply because they were caught unawares by his adventures. Other than that, the Mongols have never and will ever be able to stand up to the Chinese as the Uzbeks will never be able to defend themselves from India. These historic incidents were nothing more than a “flash in a pan” aberration which will never be repeated.

This is what being Arabic means to me. It means people who never had any worthwhile civilization in last 5000 years. Civilization means art, literature. What art and literature has Arabia producced in last 5000 years ? Actually Arabs are anti art and literature.

Arab means someone who discriminates against women. It means a highly undemocratic society that is organized for the rich to exploit the poor ( any society that allows one man to have 4 wives is undemocratic and anti-poor because only the rich can afford a harem). Arab means a society that discriminates againt women. Not just 500 years ago but todayIt means a society that discriminates against other religions. You cannot even build a mandir in Saudi Arabia. If it were not for oil, Arabs would continue to be beduins and homeless people.

Why would anyone want to associate with such a uncivilized people ? Now Persians have a civilization they can be proud of and they consider it the highest insult if you tell them that they are related to Arabs

I never understood why Aryan people of South and west Asia would ever try to “embrace” an Arab lineage, which is by any standard a very weak lineage. I think such people have been “brainwashed” into renouncing their native identity in favor of a nothing but a religious colonialism.Recommend

What a pity that the author chose to deal with a sensitive matter in such a cavalier fashion. Most Indian commentators have used this as another opportunity to trash insult the Pakistani people. We must thank them for revealing their hatred towards us on this website in a persistent manner. Truth hurts but it is good to know what people in your (larger) neighbouring country think of you. Recommend

Such a brutally frank article. This gentleman is one single man swimming against the current. This artivle is like a splash of icy cold water on the face of the religion/opium addicts. By laying out the similarities that Pakistanis and Indians have ..at the genetic ;level … it is obvious that he is trying to wage peace …

a tip of my hat erudite Sir.

And finally, kudos to the Tribune for providing a platform for such intellectuals to voice their opinions.

Thirty years ago I was at a meeting to raise money for a engineering college. We spent a lot time discussing how many places we should reserve for Arab students. I was thinking in my head, Pakistan is so poor why do we care so much about the Arabs after all there are so many oil-rich Arab countries.

Because so many us think we are foreigners we don’t care for Pakistan. We are disengaged. We care more about our mythical homeland.

@Amira:
Amira, Salutations.
I was born in 1946; in 1947 my parents settled in Lahore; I finished Senior Cambridge School Certificate from St Anthony’ High School. In 1962 my parents settled in Manchester, England. All my advanced education was in British Institutions. From 1969 I have been a world citizen.
While a student (in GB) I had friendships with Iranians, with Arabs of every hue, and Turks (mostly at doctoral level). While living in Switzerland, I had friendships with Pakis, Hindis, Turks, and Iranians and, of course, Arabs. I took part in the establishment of the Mosque in Basel; at that time the congregation was mostly Turkish.
Presently, I live in the USA. For all its faults, the USA is probably the best country in the world for a Muslim to live in. In the city I reside in, it was I who called the meeting that created the Muslim Association. Our Board of Governors consisted of a Syrian, a Hindi, two Pakis and a person from Bangalistan. 6 years ago we built a mosque and the Mosque was designed by a Muslim architect (a white man) from Kansas, who was married to a Hindi Muslimah. The builder/contractor is a Muslim from Iran. This builder has also built three other houses for me. I have friendship with those from Syria, Pakia, Hind, Bilad-as-Shaam (Syria, Jordan, Palestine, Lebanon), Iranians, Afghans, Afro-Americans, While Americans, Iraq, Maghreb (Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia), Libya Egypt, Sudan, Bosna, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, etc.
On a journey of homage I visited Turkey, in 1998. I visited Bursa which was the first Uthmanli capital. By the way, Bursa was a twin-city to Multan. Then I visited Edirne, which was the second capital of the Uthmanlis; then I moved to Istanbul, which was the third and final capital of the Uthmanlis. Finally, fleetingly, I also visited Ankara, the capital of the Republic.
Last year I visited Turkey again, I travelled from Edirne to beyond Lake Van; also travelled from the Mediterranean Sea to the Black see .In five weeks I travelled a lot.
It is a fallacy to think the Iranians deem of themselves as superior to Arabs. Only those Iranians brainwashed by European colonialists or cultural harmonists may think so. Or perhaps those Iranians who are employed to spread seeds of dissension make such utterances.
Iranians are indeed a refined people, with a developed language and culture, this is why for 700 years Persian was the State Language of Pakistan and Muslim ruled Hind. But don’t forget Shah-Nama was paid for by Mahmud of Ghazna, King of Pakistan, Emperor of Hind.
There are always regional differences in folk-practices of people spread over large areas. For example German spoken in South Germany is different from that spoken in North Germany; Scottish English is different from London English. In the case of Germany, even the religion is different: North is predominantly reformed while the South is mostly Catholic. One would expect some difference in the cultural mores of the Balooch, the Hazara, the Pukhtoons, the Punjabis, the Sindihs, the Tajiks.
You overlooked the fact that I stated in the second paragraph that I am a Jaat, a Punjabi from Ludihana, (given by the Brutish to Hind). . WHAT AM I NOT OWING UP TO?. It is typical of underdeveloped people to accuse others of wrong-doings not committed by them.

@alicia:
Alicia,
Yes, indeed you are right: Pakis and Arabs are different, in terms of latitude and longitude. But believe me in their mental set up, the Spirit of the Hejaz reigns supreme. The Spirit of Hejaz is: love of Adventure, love of Poetry, love of Luxury, practice of honouring family and friendship, pursuit of fairness, pursuit of knowledge, kindness to strangers; at peace with self, neighbours, and GOD. Of course this is an abridged list; you will have to look up other sources for the topic is large.
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In the European tradition of scholarly writing names of the countries were often mentioned in their Latin form. I admit to having a penchant for using the archaic form. No insult is intended.

@Babloo:
I like the idea, in Spirit. But these decisions are made on the basis of political advantage. So the Think Tanks (or the Ministries) should do cost-benefit studies. Real Asia starts on the other side of the Paki frontier

You sound like the typical utopian woolly headed dreamers that led Pakistan to disaster. You words sound so seductive and romantic on paper, but when implemented have led colosal human suffering. The reality on the ground is different. A whole way of life and future possibilities was lost forever in 1947. Read Pervez Hoodbhoy on the intellectual state of Pakistan. Pakistan abounds in lies, stupidity and self-delusion. What subject is your PhD ? Let we guess, some politically correct social science subject that boosts the Pakistani self-esteem. You appear to widely travelled but it seems with closed eyes. This is best newspaper in Pakistan. Do you read it ? This is Pakistan: the marriage of half-educated PhDs and the half-literate mullahs.

It is one thing to admire & share the traits and culture of a nation / people and it is another thing to pretend / think that you are a member of that nation. For eg. I am from the subcontinent and may love Italian food, culture, music etc and I may even be an Italian citizen … but ethnically my roots will always be in the subcontinent. Mentally I may be an Italian but the reality will always be that physically/ ethnically and in many other ways I will always be of the subcontinent.

Now, in my humble opinion, the reason the author is presenting the scientific evidence about the DNA is to demolish the DELUSION that Pakistanis have about their identity. The author seems to be well aware that it is this DELUSION that is leading to Pakistanis at all levels of society making mistakes … at the common man level it is leading to intolerance between each other … at the state level it is leading to misguided policies which eventually affect the direction of the Pakistani state.

BTW munching on some kinds of mushrooms causes a mental state whereby one can “see sounds and hear colors”. Likewise certain kinds of dogma can also lead to an altered mental state of reality for eg. doomsday cults. The author has pointed out just one simple scientific fact – its is upto Pakistanis to sit back and think where the DELUSION – “we are Arabs” is leading them …

@Pakistani German:
Punjabis are in fact White Huns who migrated through the mountains to the lands of the Punjab plains. Mr Pakistani German, you are not only a Hun, but a double Hun, by DNA. By the way, I do not mean to be abusive; I am only giving a racial designation. As a Punjabi Jatt, I too have the same ancestory.
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Your parents are correct in that most Punjabis were probably Hindu for the Great MIGRATIONS of the PEOPLES took place long before Islam emerged as a philosophy-of-life.
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However, Mr Rashid the writer of this polemic starts with the wrong thesis. While only some Pakis are Arab by DNA, most are Arab by reasoning. The Arab Spirit has permeated every nook and cranny of the cranium. It is the custom and practice, the derivation of laws, etc. that is the basis of “Arab” ancestry for most Pakis.

@I am Sam:
As Pakis are specialists in insults, I suppose you are exercising your right! For me it is understandable for the present Paki state only recognizes ones right to abuse others as long as the one being abused is not a member of the Army.
You are the residual of HINDI thinking in Pakia, but I will be patient with you. I take my duty as a World Citizen seriously.
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Even if your statement about Michael Jacking WANTING to pass off as a Caucasian is right, he was trying to achieve a PHYSICAL transformation. I am not attempting any physical transformation. I have stated I am a PUNJABI; not only a Punjabi, I have asserted my JATT-ness.
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I am discussing a mind-set, a perspective on life.
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And yes, at least 6 days a week, I spend around 10 minutes looking at myself in the mirror (while shaving). I see a handsome face. I thank God for it. But more so, I thank God for giving me a sharp mind that can differentiate between fallacious logic and correct logic. Perhaps you do not know, mirror is not a magic-machine which shows you the inside of the brain. Mirror only reflects the physical. So, if I am in front of the mirror, why should it show some other physical entity?
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In your case, (assuming that you do use a mirror even if only here and there), you probably see the image of Hanuman. Don’t worry; aberrations of the mind can be brought under control?

@Dr A Khan:
Dr Khan I start with an apology: terribly sorry for disabusing your notions. However, before I go into that, let be ask a question or two about your Engineering College discussions and their aftermath:
1. How many seats did your college reserve for the Arabs?
2. How many students from Arab countries did come 30 years ago and how many are presently coming?
I know of Arab (and Iranian) students who studied in India; and they are going there in even larger numbers now, then they did 30 years ago. In Pakistan there is hardly and Arab (or Iranian) student left. Paki Army has destroyed the Paki Education System.
It is an incorrect assertion that Pakis think of themselves as Foreigners while in Pakistan. My conjecture is that those that think of themselves to be of Arab ancestry, thank God for giving them the mental and physical strength to have converted a land to their own image. They are the possessors of the land; they are not Foreigners. It is the Hindi-oriented Pakis that are the problem: they want others to feel Foreign

@Indian: I am glad you said that. Too much generalization has become the norm. I have Pakistani friends -they are great guys but I do not find too much common with them. People do not understand this aspect that Hyderabadi from south india has more common with his fellow Hyderabadis than muslims in Pakistan thousand of miles away. People have a hard time understanding that Indian muslims are distinct. It is lack of cultural sensitivity that makes the matters worse.

@vasan: you need to grow man. I am from hyderabad-deccan. In sixty years-many things have in India. India is too foreign for Pakistan today. This gap will only grow. Categorising all Indian muslims as same as Pakistanis is foolish to say the least. I do not understand what you know but the last link to Pakistan was 65 years ago. India does not even play cricket matches with Pakistan and will not for sure in many years from now. Indian culture is too strong for outsiders to merge and too distinct for insiders to blend with others. Thats very reason many muslims come back to live in India when they go to Arab states unlike Pakistanis.

Great Article ! A correction that Janjuas are descendants of Arjun of Mahabharata not Ar from Old Testament… And to be politically correct since Pakistan is day by day more relied on China, I wont wonder if 300 years later your own offspring claims themselves Chinese !!! Damn. Oops ! I am from Japan origin as I like Japanese toys ! Sorry, but politically correct. hmm.

@Dr Jamil Chaudri
Good luck with your Arab spirit. You will soon need to rebrand it to some other name to feel good about it. Because Arab spirit these days is associated with Jaahil/Ganwar (uneducated and uncouth) spirit in the civilized world.

@Dr Jamil Chaudri wrote:The Arab Spirit has permeated every nook and cranny of the cranium. It is the custom and practice, the derivation of laws, etc. that is the basis of “Arab” ancestry for most Pakis.

Well said, Dr. Jamil Chaudri! The Arab spirit has permeated the dark nooks and crannies of the Paki cranium to such an extent that being born a female in Pakistan is now a bona fide crime. The Arab spirit took over to ensure that the female could never raise her head again to claim the status of a human.

Mr Chaudri, it is not the Arab spirit, but the spirit of humanity that was the true message of Islam. You seemed to have the missed the crux of the message of Islam, that of tolerance and humility. Building mosques in the USA and claiming superiority of the Arab spirit makes you sound like a confused, delusional, arrogant person ranting about his travels across the globe. If you find the Arab mindset to be so liberating, what are you doing in the USA? Go live in KSA!

The fact remains that the majority of Pakistanis seemed to have been brain washed into believing that their true genetic roots do not lie in the wonderful sub continent because the Arab gene pool is pure and holy. The sad yet undeniable fact remains that those who deny their roots are bound to be disgraced and forgotten!

Abbas : Friend; You didnt pick up my message. I was just curious about Pakistani Hindus as well. I am from deep down South India (Tamilnadu) and I jolly well know that South Indian muslims have nothing to do with Pakistanis in every aspect. But my message was for the south Indian muslims who have gone over to Pakistan (I am sure there are many of them. Infact I read a comment from a Tamil muslm living in Karachi in ET). I was curious whether these two ie Hindus and S Indian muslims in Pakistan are brainwashed as well

@ Ali TanoliArabs were uncivilized and backward peoples before islam and then islam made them civilized and most respected peoples on earth

If you are aware of history (which seems absent), you will realise Araba before Islam were very secular and tolerant people. There existed many religions and different kinds of people.There were Jews, Christians, Pagans, Atheists, Zaorastrians etc. They co-existed peacefully. This region woud have been a beacon to the world, if only it existed in that form. With Islam, all these religions got wiped out- not a very civilised thing for Arabs to do.

Arabs have the honour of being the outcasts in the world right now. If not for oil, they would have been worse than sub-saharan africans.

nobody in the world considers them to be civilised right now- except maybe be yourself. They follow barbaric practices like amputations, child marraige etc even to this day.

As a matter of fact do you even know what are types of Arab Race???
Here people are talking about Arabul Mustariba. The present Arab are Arabul Aariba and they were always Bedunion and savage race! Stop generalizing and stop speaking without knowledge. And religions were existing peacefully? Have you even read Pre-Islamic history? Just FYI there was a battle between Aus and Khizraj before the flight of Prophet to Media called Battle of Bas’sas! Never heard of it? Of course how can you! You just get diluted version of history and the little you get, you read it with the spex of discrimination against Muslims.

Heard about Battle of Aqba? Heard about Battle of Elephants? Heard battle of Sadd’e’Ma’rib? No? Read history before presenting your lame arguments. And especially History of Arabul Mus’tariba.

@Zalim Singh
Sir in westren books even today its written that islam brought the light to world dark savage
uneducated westren cities does not even had lights when Aundulusia present south spain was
shining with street lights and best education to offer christians and jews and pre planed homes
with best sewrage system and u know that time christian priest used to tells there fellow young men dont wear arab dress or dont speaks arabic language this is eights century i am talking about when moorish came to spains and peoples were happiers than there christians rullers and ever heard of Ibn Hazzam no right please visit wikki pedia and also read the reason behind why christians of these egypt, syria, palestine and north africa accepted islam
and why spains well come muslim that time and why we are fastest growing reliegen in the world Recommend

@Ali Tanoli: ” … wikki pedia and also read the reason behind why christians of these egypt, syria, palestine and north africa accepted islam and why spains well come muslim that time and why we are fastest growing reliegen in the world … “

In the same western books, you base your information on, you will read that acceptance of Islam was not voluntary, it was mandatory – it was a choice between Islam or death at the hands of the invaders.

And Islam is the fastest growing religion because of the reproductive patterns of people who are already Muslim. People are not becoming Muslims en-mass. It appears to me that you yourself have doubts about Islam and are seeking refuge in the theory of the fastest growing religion.

@Vikram singh
First of all by forced converted peoples never stays longer and that happend in south america
where native peoples were converted by forced on the gun point they had two choices chnage
or die and i have seen peoples now changing back to there native reliegen and in that case if
it had happend in india then why indians muslims dont wanna go back to hinduism now there
is no mughal empire and why french and germans are accepting islam can u tell me mr vicram??? i think and i am pretty sure islam never ever spreaded by sword Recommend

@Ali Tanoli:
People are not reverting from Islam is because of the persecution that they face from the religious and political establishment in the Islamic countries. In fact, in Pakistan, converting out of Islam is punishable by death as per Zia-ul- haq order. There is no doubt that once the islamic theocracies cease people will leave Islam in hordes!!!!

@LPH
I was talking the indian muslims who ever u are mr/miss LPH please care fully my comment.
and islam says about this “La ikrah fi deen” There is no jabbar (force) in islam and we lived
in west why dont we changed we dont have theocracies problems here.

@Dr Jamil Chaudri:
So what has made this mind set, let’s understand. History is witness; the Afghans excelled in nothing other than looting and rape. Give us one example of where the Afghans contributed to any social values. There is nothing worth emulating from the afghans, much worse from the Arabs. So when you say you have an afghan mind set, it has to be a medieval mindset of loot and plunder. Else, please point to a value add.
The reason for your state of the mind is simple. Hide your inferiority complex (associated with a defeated person or community) by claiming to belong to those who ruled than those who were defeated. More like the Stockholm syndrome. This is the same mindset which makes some others claim Arab ancestory. In both cases, people want to be associated with the victor and not the vanquished.
This is not different that our desis, who in just a few months of stay abroad try to speak in an American accent.

@Sidra:
Individually Of course yes! One can get the DNA testing and find out about their origins — my point however was for the documented literally proof or references of one’s work so folks like me can also create point of reference. Checkout the desi people from Guyana who still have their sikh or muslim names but that’s the only thing left in them.. Isn’t it something happened in India when moghals invaded the country and soldiers mixed with locals – few generations down children had a vague idea of their ancestry – language, clothing, culture, skin tone — everything was changed..

It is very easy to disapprove your theory using Mathematics. If you were to make calculations based on the assumption that Islam were spread by word of mouth, with large groups of people converting en-mass AND factoring in high reproductive rates amongst Muslims – you will still fall far short of the current population of Muslims in the world.

Take the example of the Chinese and Hindus – the civilizations are older than Islam by thousands of years, yet their respective populations are less than the population of Muslims. Ergo, the current population of Muslims does not indicate an organic and gradual population growth.

Interesting and informative article. Peoples’ fascination with claiming other sources of heritage that are not their own has always confounded me. Personally speaking, I’ve never really had an issue regarding whether or not I come from an Arab descent. It’s the history and the background concerning it that has always fascinated me.

@Ali Tanoli:
Indian muslims are steeped with a baggage of Islamic tradition for many hundred years which is very difficult to shake off overnight. However, they are just getting a taste of a free democratic society and the opportunities that it offers. Once they have a better understanding of the choices before them, I am sure they will make different decisions.

We are arabs and turks i am sure about that and by the way in U.S.A if u asked some white guy where he belings to he wil say irish german polish russian from father side and english french bohamian
from father side.Recommend

@Dr Jamil Choudhrilove of Adventure, love of Poetry, love of Luxury, practice of honouring family and friendship, pursuit of fairness, pursuit of knowledge, kindness to strangers; at peace with self, neighbours, and GOD.
WHOA,WHOA!! Slow down Dr Sahib. Let us examine the features one by one,
A. Love of Adventure-
OK, so how many Arabs can you count on the two poles or on mount Everest or on any mountain for that matter or on a sailboat around the world. Perhaps you are confusing love of war booty with love of adventure.
B. Love of Poetry
And the most celebrated poets of the day are? And the number of their books bought by their Arabic lovers comes to? And the songs are set to music by?
C.pursuit of fairness
As in the treatment of Shias and followers of all other religions in Arabia. And the treatment of Kurds all over the place. Just look at the ‘Diyya Laws’ to get a whole new perspective on ‘fairness’.
D. Pursuit of Knowledge
On the evidence of the fate of the Libraries of Alexandria and Nalanda I have to concede that the Arabs did ‘pursue’ knowledge very hard. The effect on knowledge however, was a bit deleterious. But do tell me how many top universities and noble laureates has the Arabic spirit spawned?
E. At peace with self, neighbours and GOD
Do I need to say anything on this after A to D above. Just a small reminder, how many non-Arabs invaded Arabia and how did the neighbours of Arabia fare, even if you count India as a neighbour?
Dr Jamil has my vote for Best Writing in the Fiction and Fantasy CATEGORY.

Moderator ET- If you can live with empty boasts, I guess you can also live with demands of evidence. Unless of course you believe this Arabic fable to be axiomatically true.

Arab contact and influence in India was limited to Sind and south-west Punjab. The vast majority of Indians who converted to Islam did so at the persuasion of the Sufis.Very few among the latter were Arabs. When Bengal was conquered by the Turks in late twelfth century, an estimated 70,000 of them migrated to the province, including my progenitor, Ibrahim Danishmand, whose tomb is still preserved in Mograpara on the outskirts of Sonargaon.

He, like the rest of them, was a Turk of Central Asian stock, educated in Baghdad in the Suhrawardi tradition and a contemporary of Baha-uddin Zakra of Multan. The Sufis by nature were not chauvinistic and did not discriminate on the basis of race, colour or creed. It is impossible to generalise and wrong to assign the overbearing attitude of some Arabs to the rest of the Muslims. It is understandable is some of them like to trace their origins to Arabia but that is certainly not the case on the whole in Pakistan.

@Observer,
If u say Alexendria then be corect it history it was distroy by crusaders not muslims and i have many old indians they still remembers Mughals time as better than English and one thing
to remind u what about the light of education in Europe and else where start it by arabs and world owes to arabs for science, maith, and so many things and arabs are good hearts peoples thank god black gold owns by arabs other wise and because of arabs wall street is stable india got civilized by islam before they were burning the women alive with men and human value front of upper caste we knows that how much it was these beautifull culture of india given by arabs and muslims and then distroys by english.

@Dr Jamil Chaudri:
Greetings, Sir!
I absolutely loved your reply to my comment, especially the following: “It is typical of underdeveloped people to accuse others of wrong-doings not committed by them.”

But most of all I actually liked that you are trying to educate me about the language and customs of my home country and about countries I spent a considerable time in. Thank you very much for that. Please keep up your good work to educate us underdeveloped people of the world!

@Babloo: “Paid advertisements should be taken out in al major news papers , including in all Arab and Gulf papers, informing the Arabs that Pakistanis now are “people of Arab descent”. Are you planning to start an Arab spring in Pakistan?

@Ali Tanoli,:
’21st century is arabs and muslims century’ – By the look of things if you are referring to Pakistan and Libya and Iraq and Iran and Afghanistan. May be!!
By the way i don’t see a struggle of the same nature else where in the world including India (with 11 million Muslims). Ever wondered why? Because Muslims here are as Indian as much as they are Muslims.

Mr Salman Rachid, do you understand that being Arab is not by lineage but by jahiliyah standards by language and culture and by Islamic standards by religious affiliation? Do you realize that the ‘Arab world’ is only Arab by the latter two standards and not through descent from Banii Jurhum?

I think if some tribe links itself to Prophet Issac (A.S), he must not be claiming to be Arab. Bani Israel were not Arab. They had 12 major tribes who moved to different parts of the world. Also pathans are not from subcontinent either and they don’t claim an Arab origin either. anyways article is interesting to the fact that how people take false pride in their origin. These castes and tribes are only for identification and no one should take false pride in bloodline. Why would somebody feel ashamed of his ancestors being “converted”? Arabs also were converted. I think it shows greatness if somebody has courage to give up beliefs of forefathers and accept truth of Islam.

and Islam will prevail as the ultimate truth. all the false beliefs will go away. and for those looking to go in pre-Islamic area for India, well you can still continue with your satti’s, girl burying, caste system, labeling 20% of your people untouchable, and whatever more you like. Muslims gave you freedom, ways to think freely, literature, dress code, education, economy, fine arts and language (hindi). the 500 million Muslims in the subcontinent were not forced by sword to convert. If these could be forced, why not the remaining ones. at least you would not have seen any non-Muslim in Dehli and Punjab which have remained Muslim strongholds for centuries.

In the New York Times (Jan 14) is an article titled, ‘For Many Latinos, Racial Identity Is More Cultural Than Color’. Starting with the second sentence, the article reports, ‘Among the questions on the census form is one about race, with 15 choices, including “some other race”. More than 18 million Latinos checked this “other” box in the 2010 census, up from 14.9 million in 2000. It was an indicator of the sharp disconnect between how Latinos view themselves and how the government wants to count them”
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I found the article interesting and amusing for the pseudo-furor created in Express-Tribune, over race, in the Islamic Republics (Pakia, Afghania, Irania, and Tajikia)
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In most countries, especially the afore mentioned Republics, a majority of the people are of mixed race. What is important for these countries is not dissipate energy through futile discussions on RACE. The above quoted article goes and says, “But Latinos, as a group in this country, tend to IDENTIFY themselves more by their ethnicity, meaning a shared set of cultural traits, like language or customs”.
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This is exactly, how Jinnah defined the concept of Pakistan, when in a speech to depict the difference between the populations of British India he said:
“ whose culture and civilization, language and literature, art and architecture, names and nomenclature, sense of values and proportion, laws and jurisprudence, social and moral codes, customs and calendar, history and traditions, aptitude and ambitions, outlook on life and of life are fundamentally different. By all the canons of international law we are nation”.
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I want the reader to understand that while Paki people identify themselves by the concepts contained in Jinnah’s speech; Hindi oriented and American inspired quasi intellectuals wish to impose their definition of what the Paki Identity should be.Recommend

Is the article describe Islam is ideological slavery for so called lower cast hindus that form today’s Pakistan? Many upper cast Hindus were also converted to protect their hierarchy in a new social order under Islamic rule. It is easy to understand that, Islamic invaders of the time did not considered kafirs equal to conquerors. Further, the subjects of the conquered land wanted to protect their land, women and children from being slaughtered.Recommend

The author mentions many facts but distorts or forgets to mention one important fact – not all Hindus converted to islam due to the “caste system”, many of them due to the fear of life too.

How else can you explain a significant muslim population in Kashmir, which was filled with Brahmins, the upper most strata of the caste system? Why would Brahmins convert to Islam when they were not the victims of the caste system?

With all due respect, Afghans don’t like to be lumped together with Pakistanis or Iranians and we have nothing in common as far as culture is concerned. The only thing that binds us together is Islam and that too is practiced differently in all three countries.

Afghans and Pakistanis are predominantly Sunni but Iranians are Shia. Afghans and Iranians share the pre Islamic Persian culture and celebrate holidays such as Nowroz but the similarities end there.

Pakistanis emulate that which they think is Iranian or Afghan culture but you cannot imitate without embodying the essence of what is it to be an Afghan or Iranian, good or bad.