As usual, the scribe apologizes contritely for the lateness of these
minutes.
RDF Data Access Working Group: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/
Tuesday 2004-11-16 9:30am-11:30am/14:30-16:30 UTC
supplementary IRC chat log: http://www.w3.org/2004/11/16-dawg-irc
1. Convene, take roll, review agenda
chair: Eric Prud'hommeaux
scribe: Simon Rabocze
regrets: Kendall Clark
attending: Tom Adams
Dave Beckett
Dan Connolly (IRC only)
Jos De Roo
Steve Harris
Pat Hayes
Howard Katz
Eric Prud'hommeaux
Simon Raboczi
Alberto Reggiori
Janne Saarela
Andy Seaborne
RESOLVED without opposition to accept as a true record:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/
0264.html
as amended by
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/
0267.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/
0289.html
ACTION DanC: owner of issue 'yes or no questions' (pending protocol doc)
CONTINUED without discussion
ACTION AlbertoR: owns issue 'DESCRIBE'
CONTINUED without discussion
ACTION: SteveH is willing to adapt his testing infrastructure to
generate input/output RDF/XML and typed nodes into manifest file
CONTINUED without discussion
ACTION EricP: find logistics re F2F5 at tech plenary in Boston March 28
Feb - 4 Mar
CONTINUED without discussion
ACTION DanC: notify SemWeb CG of EbXML possible sync point in April
CONTINUED without discussion
2. FTF 4
19-20 January 2005 Espoo, Finland (Hosted by Profium)
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/
0211.html
dress warmly!
ACTION DanC: Make a dawg f2f4 registration form
DONE:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/
0268.html
Only 3 or 4 people have registered so far. Everyone should register!
Janne tempts visitors with the first snow of the season in delightful
Finland.
Eric asks Janne whether there are any logistics issues, to which Janne
replies that this would be better to defer until next week, when more
attendence results are in.
3. Protocol
Protocol draft: http://monkeyfist.com/kendall/sparql-protocol/
The chair suggested that without Kendall (the author and editor of the
protocol document) we'll defer discussing protocol.
ACTION KendallC: expose our walking tour data to SPARQL querying clients
CONTINUED: ETA before F2F4
ACTION TomA: read the protocol draft [protocol] and email a review to
the WG before the next telcon 2004-11-09
CONTINUED without discussion, as TomA wasn't on the phone at the time
the agendum was raised
ACTION JanneS: read the protocol draft [protocol] and email a review to
the WG before the next telcon 2004-11-09
DONE:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/
0293.html
4. SPARQL SOURCE Issue
Any more discussion of
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/
0241.html ?
ACTION JanneS: review
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/
0256.html and check what happens when no source support is implemented
CONTINUED
Janne's preliminary impression is that it may be safe to just omit the
binding if SOURCE is not available.
DaveB suggests that either an error should be returned or that we need
to permit two sets of test results, one for systems that support SOURCE
and another for those that don't.
AndyS worries that a variables will behave differently when appearing
in a SOURCE clause than when it appears elsewhere.
PatH refers to TAG recommending hard failure for features that aren't
supported.
Eric notes that XML is an example of a spec in which mandating hard
failures seems to have been helpful.
ACTION DaveB: update the dawg test repository to record or amend tests
to correspond to the
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/
0241.html proposal
CONTINUED
Both AndyS and JosD were uncertain about what exactly the NAMED syntax
was achieving in message 241.
Following the naming discussion TomA took an ACTION to forward a
summary of internal discussion at Tucana on the topic of URIs for
graphs.
These minutes are late enough that this has already been DONE:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/
0319.html
AndyS will attempt to incorporate DaveB's work into the SPARQL query
document, while Dave is busy.
ACTION DanC: suggest formal definitions for SOURCE
CONTINUED
5. SPARQL Disjunction issue
ACTION SimonR: explain how much of disjuction can be done with
optionals, nested or otherwise. Point to references, problems with
LEFT OUTER JOIN in the literature.
Related:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/
0294.html
DONE: SimonR was of the opinion that his counterexample of
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/
0296.html demonstrated that disjunction couldn't generally be replaced
by outer join, but that disjunction of triple pattern constraints could
always be replaced by disjunction in a value constraints.
6. SPARQL update, issues
See http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/
ACTION EricP: supply definitions for SELECT (vars ordered or not?) ala
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/0151.html
WITHDRAW
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/
thread.html#265 and look for "Definition: Projection" in
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#select
The question is whether the order of the variables in the SELECT clause
should specify the order of the variables in the result set.
AlbertoR pointed out that requiring order would mean than any
RDF/XML-based serialization of results would require containers or
collections.
For: column order was expected behavior based on existing APIs in
(e.g.) perl, php, JDBC
Against: column ordering is unnecessary, and unnecessary constraints
are to be avoided
No resolution reached.
ACTION: AndyS to write a test cases which use ? and $ in the same query
DONE:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/
0289.html
DanC asked for somebody else to help on reading and responding to the
comments list.
ACTION: Tom Adams volunteered and got the job to read the list, respond
and pass on things to/from the WG and the comments list.
[ ACTION interpreted from
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/
0264.html ]
TomA thanked AndyS for handling some of this while he'd been busy, and
stated that he was now indeed able to undertake the task.
ADJOURNED at 15:40Z
Next meeting: Tuesday 2004-11-23 at 14:30 UTC,
chair: EricP
scribe: AndyS
regrets: AlbertoR for 23 Nov (pending travel)
DanC for 23 Nov, 30 Nov
DaveB for 23 Nov, 30 Nov
HowardK for 23 Nov, 30 Nov
TomA for 23 Nov
Tune in next time for:
- Enough F2F4 registrations to discuss logistics
- Deferred discussion of protocol