Want cheap power for a tonne of people? Start building nuclear reactors like France, and overall pursue an all of the above strategy in renewable power sources, rather than single mindedly pursuing a single alternative energy source. Combined, the different alternative energy sources can solve a lot of problems.

Let the Chinese burn coal and choke to death, India needs to be smarter.

Off-topic bhai but I always wanted to ask from you as you know some people who work at hal. Is a total competitor to hal is required in country? would hal be able to handle subsequent next gen combat aircraft(s) in a speedy manner after Ade and they messed with tejas?

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multiple threads to ask in Airforce and LC threads.. HAL is quite capable organisation, they have their own shortcomings and advantages. Competition is never bad.

Want cheap power for a tonne of people? Start building nuclear reactors like France, and overall pursue an all of the above strategy in renewable power sources, rather than single mindedly pursuing a single alternative energy source. Combined, the different alternative energy sources can solve a lot of problems.

Let the Chinese burn coal and choke to death, India needs to be smarter.

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Chinese are ahead of us in clean energy RnD while we are working at snail's speed on AHWR. They have started work on molten salt reactor and in parallel speeded up the work on sustained confinement using lasers.

Chinese are ahead of us in clean energy RnD while we are working at snail's speed on AHWR. They have started work on molten salt reactor and in parallel speeded up the work on sustained confinement using lasers.

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Yet they are also simultaneously burning all the coal they can find. And I see a handful of users on this thread wanting to emulate that behavior or race China in use of nonrenewables. That's not the smart thing to do, shift focus on R&D of renewables as you mentioned (Thorium salt reactors are one such example) and beat China there while they continue to make their own air unbreathable. Trying to burn coal and compete w/ China there would be foolhardy.

Yet they are also simultaneously burning all the coal they can find. And I see a handful of users on this thread wanting to emulate that behavior or race China in use of nonrenewables. That's not the smart thing to do, shift focus on R&D of renewables as you mentioned (Thorium salt reactors are one such example) and beat China there while they continue to make their own air unbreathable. Trying to burn coal and compete w/ China there would be foolhardy.

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I appreciate your positivism and first we should strictly start implementing solar energy in heavily polluted areas like our capital, industrial cities.

I appreciate your positivism and first we should strictly start implementing solar energy in heavily polluted areas like our capital, industrial cities.

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Absolutely, start going renewable wherever it's possible. I'm not saying it'll be easy, it'll actually be tougher at first than just taking the easy way out and burning coal, but it'll pay off big time in the end.

Absolutely, start going renewable wherever it's possible. I'm not saying it'll be easy, it'll actually be tougher at first than just taking the easy way out and burning coal, but it'll pay off big time in the end.

Everyone knows that Solar power is very costly. It needs to be promoted because:

(1) It is a novel disruptive technology, which mean that at this point of time there is no global leader in field of solar tech and we ,if we promote it, could become a R&D and manufacturing leader in this technology. If we ever wish to have ascendancy over established power , WE NEED DISPRUPTIVE TECHNOLOGIES.

If we try to go head to head against USA in aircraft carriers , WE would LOSE. If we ever have to compete with aircraft carriers, we need to develop tech that render them useless, similar to how aircraft carriers rendered dreadnoughts useless.

If we try to go head to head against China in low cost manufacturing, We would LOSE. We could not match Chinese subsidies, and even if we succeed in low cost manufacturing, it would further reduce margins ,which already are quiet low. If we need to become a manufacturing power, we need to focus on tech intensive manufacturing ,an area where China has not consolidated as much as it has in low cost manufacturing, and most of companies and governments are wary of any ToT to China. And this is also a sector in which we also are doing very well:

(i) Unregistered manufacturing ,which need low skilled, has extremely low productivity in India. This sector is primary driver of Chinese economy and is the one which provides social mobility to ill-educated, less capable individuals. India has advantage in this sector ,but even then this sector is pretty much non-existent from Indian economy because of trade unionism and this is the primary reason why 24.6% of Indian workforce is working on farms and 53% of Indian population is dependent on farm income. There are more farmers that India need and reason for this that low-end manufacturing which could absorb unskilled labour is absent in India due to trade unionism in this area.

(ii) Registered manufacturing ,which is skill intensive high end manufacturing, is most productive sector of Indian economy, 7.2 times more productive than low-end manufacturing and even more productive than services, and its productivity is very high even in absolute sense- rivaling that of developed countries. In some high end manufacturing sectors like naval shipbuilding, India has even upstaged established industrial powers like UK.

(iii) Though service sector as a whole has lower productivity than registered manufacturing, productivity level of two services subsectors - Financial services and business services- out of six have higher productivity than registered manufacturing. These sub-sectors of service industry are even more skill intensive than registered manufacturing and their products resemble that of manufacturing products.

If you ever visit PDF ,read Syama Ayas's post in "India boycott of Chinese cracker thread (I forgot exactly which so use search option)". He has listed statistics of Indian import and manufacturing in detail while arguing with Chinese. Contrary to popular belief, India manufactures majority of electronics that it consume. It is true that import from China is quite high, but it is nowhere as bad as Toy manufacturing industry where Chinese import has completely destroyed Indian toy manufacturing industry.

It is very easy to build a Microsoft when there is no Microsoft present, to build Google when there is no Google, to build an Intel, when there is no Intel; but it is impossible to uproot an already established entity, unless you come up with a disruptive technology.

(2) Semiconductors industry is improving with each year. There are three type of PV cells: Silicon cells, compound cells, and organic cells. Silicon cells could be further divided into single crystal, poly-crystalline, and amorphous; and different type of organic cells. Compound cells like Gallium Arsenide and Galliun nitride cells are most efficient at conversion with efficiency of 20%+ and it is here where there are real opportunities, and improvement here would directly benefit our Radar program and vice vera. Amorphous silicon cells are least efficient at 2-3% and are used in extremely low cost electronics. Out of poly crystalline and single crystal cells, single crystal cells are more efficient at 15% compared to 10% of polycrystalline cells, but cost-to-benefit ratio of polycrystalline cells is more than of single crystal. Organic cells cost similar to compound cells, but have efficiency of an amorphous PV cell, but this is again a tech frontier where real gains of investing in R&D lies.

There is no clear cut leader in PV tech field like there is Google in search engines. We need a push in this sector ,with a focus on accumulating intellectual property. If we do not do that ,it would play out in same way as out Aircraft manufacturing has turned out where we trail world leader by a generation and half.

(3) Future of energy sector lies in Fusion technology, PV cell technology, Hydrogen Fuel cell, and energy storage technology; and in these fields we are not pathetic like we are in traditional technology domain where established power put an unsurpassable lead over us. On top of it, we are an extremely energy deficient country. We have no oil, no gas, no good quality coal (Indian coal has shit quality). We need to wholeheartedly support this paradigm shift in energy technology as it would save us FOREX and bankrupt patrons and spiritual masters of our enemy.

It is not an either-or situation. We could be pioneers in renewable energy ,doing it just right enough that it sustain innovation in that industry, while fulfilling major part of our needs with Coal-Power. This global warming has given us a very good excuse for doing so as this means that everyone has to have some costly renewable energy in their energy matrix, thus could not outcompete out manufacturing by having access to cheap energy.

I agree with the crux of "Disruptive Tech" - Any money spent on R&D is a predictive gameble, that must be done. It was so with ISRO- paid off with a sufficient space program. It is still so with Chandrayaan and Mangalyaan - The benefits of mining or colonisation can be huge- its a race.

I am completely behind you and @Agent_47 on that. My quibble is with projects that have no R&D component and make vey little economical sense. a 40%+ margin is huge.- We should have competition where companies fight to shave off percentages. Not just hand over to a clearly less competitive project because it is clean energy (simply with no CO2 emissions. not to be confused with pollution- No air pollution with the advent of current clean coal technology in UMPP only CO2 emissions ). As I explained we can go clean all we want- the greenhouse gases in the atmosphere redistribute and affect everybody equally. (melting icecaps with rising temperature.) So, we should do it with a pact with everybody, and get some leeway because of our lesser historical responsibility.

Solar is not cheaper than coal now. We are substituting a completely indigenous power plant with majority imported project - and for higher prices - and for the purpose of lesser emissions- but the the emissions of others are still going to affect us just the same.

R&D innovation are much needed. If we had spent 30% less making a power project and given 30% free to Adani or whoever for R&D. It still woud have been fine. What we have done is give 100% off to Chinese companies and got a power plant. The R&D that is going to result from this project money is for the CHINESE, not India. Why cant you guys understand that?? Your point that we are trying something new does not work. - We already know how solar plants are set up and run. What did we learn from this?? I really fail to get you guys.
I will have to respectfully Disagree.

The Union Cabinet chaired by the Prime Minister, Shri Narendra Modi, today gave its approval for stepping up of India’s solar power capacity target under the Jawaharlal Nehru National Solar Mission (JNNSM) by five times, reaching 1,00,000 MW by 2022. The target will principally comprise of 40 GW Rooftop and 60 GW through Large and Medium Scale Grid Connected Solar Power Projects. With this ambitious target, India will become one of the largest Green Energy producers in the world, surpassing several developed countries.

The total investment in setting up 100 GW will be around 6,00,000 cr. In the first phase, the Government of India is providing 15,050 crore as capital subsidy to promote solar capacity addition in the country. This capital subsidy will be provided for Rooftop Solar projects in various cities and towns, for Viability Gap Funding (VGF) based projects to be developed through the Solar Energy Corporation of India (SECI) and for decentralized generation through small solar projects. The Ministry of New and Renewable Energy (MNRE) intends to achieve the target of 1,00,000 MW with targets under the three schemes of 19,200 MW.

Apart from this, solar power projects with investment of about 90,000 crore would be developed using Bundling mechanism with thermal power. Further investment will come from large Public Sector Undertakings and Independent Power Producers (IPPs). State Governments have also come out with State specific solar policies to promote solar capacity addition.

The Government of India may also approach bilateral and international donors as also the Green Climate Fund for achieving this target. Solar power can contribute to the long term energy security of India, and reduce dependence on fossil fuels that put a strain on foreign reserves and the ecology as well. The solar manufacturing sector will get a boost with this long term trajectory of solar capacity addition. This will help in creation of technology hubs for manufacturing. The increased manufacturing capacity and installation are expected to pave way for direct and indirect employment opportunities in both the skilled and unskilled sector.

The new solar target of 100 GW is expected to abate over 170 million tonnes of CO2 over its life cycle. This Solar Scale-up Plan has a target of 40 GW through Decentralized Solar Power Generation in the form of Grid Connected Rooftop Projects. While Decentralized Generation will stabilise the grid, it will minimise investment on power evacuation.

To facilitate such a massive target, the Prime Minister’s Office has been pushing various Ministries to initiate supporting interventions, like:-

a) incorporating changes in land use regulations and tenancy laws to facilitate aggregation and leasing of land by farmers/ developers for solar projects;

b) identification of large chunks of land for solar projects;

c) identification of large government complexes/ buildings for rooftop projects;

f) setting up of exclusive parks for domestic manufacturing of solar PV modules;

g) provision of roof top solar and 10 percent renewable energy as mandatory reform under the new scheme of Ministry of Urban Development;

h) amendments in building bye-laws for mandatory provision of roof top solar for new construction or higher FAR;

i) considering infrastructure status for solar projects; raising tax free solar bonds; providing long tenor loans; making roof top solar a part of housing loan by banks/ NHB and extending IIFCL credit facility to such projects by the Department of Financial Services;

k) incorporating measures in Integrated Power Development Scheme (IPDS) for encouraging distribution companies and making net-metering compulsory.

Background:

JNNSM was launched in 2009 with a target for Grid Connected Solar Projects of 20,000 MW by 2022. In the last two to three years, the sector has witnessed rapid development with installed solar capacity increasing rapidly from 18 MW to about 3800 MW during 2010 - 15. The price of solar energy has come down significantly from 17.90 per unit in 2010 to under 7 per unit, thereby reducing the need of VGF / GBI per MW of solar power. With technology advancement and market competition, this Green Power is expected to reach grid parity by 2017-18. These developments would enable India to achieve its present target of 20,000 MW. But considering its international commitment towards Green and climate friendly growth trajectory, the Government of India has taken this path-breaking decision.

And it says robotic cleaning. Another thing which has no place in India. People ready to work for 8000 rs per month. Could have given them jobs instead of investing in the extravagant capital cost of a robotic system. Would have created hell a lotta jobs.

Robotics have no place in India. I am pretty passionate about this. Especially for unskilled labour. Even if the robot is bought from an Indian company. Let me explain. Any robot purchased will be from a MNC where most of the money goes to a rich guy. Using a labour for Rs 6390 rs per month (I saw a video where govt health workers are getting paid Rs 500 per month for 5 days a week work).This gives these poor a way to earn a living honourably. The Govt has to otherwise anyway take care of them. The Nrega average per day is Rs 213 (*30 = Rs6390). I have a strong proposal that the govt must subsidise the wages paid by any one if they hire these MNREGA candidates by half. Because the govt guarantees this money either way and gives it. This also gives an incentive for people to hire people than to go for robots. They can recover the money for subsidies from elsewhere. The business wins, getting a subsidy .. the poor person wins, by more jobs created. No robot cleaning can possibly compete cost effectively for unskilled labour in India.

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Terrible idea. Unskilled workers are dead end workers. Even after 30 years, all he will be doing is cleaning solar panels earning minimum wage.

What's more important is to teach the multitudes a skill that they can hone and develop on their own, which they can sell to someone for a fee.

The Union Cabinet chaired by the Prime Minister, Shri Narendra Modi, today gave its approval for stepping up of India’s solar power capacity target under the Jawaharlal Nehru National Solar Mission (JNNSM) by five times, reaching 1,00,000 MW by 2022. The target will principally comprise of 40 GW Rooftop and 60 GW through Large and Medium Scale Grid Connected Solar Power Projects. With this ambitious target, India will become one of the largest Green Energy producers in the world, surpassing several developed countries.

The total investment in setting up 100 GW will be around 6,00,000 cr. In the first phase, the Government of India is providing 15,050 crore as capital subsidy to promote solar capacity addition in the country. This capital subsidy will be provided for Rooftop Solar projects in various cities and towns, for Viability Gap Funding (VGF) based projects to be developed through the Solar Energy Corporation of India (SECI) and for decentralized generation through small solar projects. The Ministry of New and Renewable Energy (MNRE) intends to achieve the target of 1,00,000 MW with targets under the three schemes of 19,200 MW.

Apart from this, solar power projects with investment of about 90,000 crore would be developed using Bundling mechanism with thermal power. Further investment will come from large Public Sector Undertakings and Independent Power Producers (IPPs). State Governments have also come out with State specific solar policies to promote solar capacity addition.

The Government of India may also approach bilateral and international donors as also the Green Climate Fund for achieving this target. Solar power can contribute to the long term energy security of India, and reduce dependence on fossil fuels that put a strain on foreign reserves and the ecology as well. The solar manufacturing sector will get a boost with this long term trajectory of solar capacity addition. This will help in creation of technology hubs for manufacturing. The increased manufacturing capacity and installation are expected to pave way for direct and indirect employment opportunities in both the skilled and unskilled sector.

The new solar target of 100 GW is expected to abate over 170 million tonnes of CO2 over its life cycle. This Solar Scale-up Plan has a target of 40 GW through Decentralized Solar Power Generation in the form of Grid Connected Rooftop Projects. While Decentralized Generation will stabilise the grid, it will minimise investment on power evacuation.

To facilitate such a massive target, the Prime Minister’s Office has been pushing various Ministries to initiate supporting interventions, like:-

a) incorporating changes in land use regulations and tenancy laws to facilitate aggregation and leasing of land by farmers/ developers for solar projects;

b) identification of large chunks of land for solar projects;

c) identification of large government complexes/ buildings for rooftop projects;

f) setting up of exclusive parks for domestic manufacturing of solar PV modules;

g) provision of roof top solar and 10 percent renewable energy as mandatory reform under the new scheme of Ministry of Urban Development;

h) amendments in building bye-laws for mandatory provision of roof top solar for new construction or higher FAR;

i) considering infrastructure status for solar projects; raising tax free solar bonds; providing long tenor loans; making roof top solar a part of housing loan by banks/ NHB and extending IIFCL credit facility to such projects by the Department of Financial Services;

k) incorporating measures in Integrated Power Development Scheme (IPDS) for encouraging distribution companies and making net-metering compulsory.

Background:

JNNSM was launched in 2009 with a target for Grid Connected Solar Projects of 20,000 MW by 2022. In the last two to three years, the sector has witnessed rapid development with installed solar capacity increasing rapidly from 18 MW to about 3800 MW during 2010 - 15. The price of solar energy has come down significantly from 17.90 per unit in 2010 to under 7 per unit, thereby reducing the need of VGF / GBI per MW of solar power. With technology advancement and market competition, this Green Power is expected to reach grid parity by 2017-18. These developments would enable India to achieve its present target of 20,000 MW. But considering its international commitment towards Green and climate friendly growth trajectory, the Government of India has taken this path-breaking decision.

For India this is almost unbelivable, a target being revised UPWARDS and that too by a factor of FIVE?? Damn.

As a critic of Modi I can honestly say there is no one even remotely close to him in terms of suitability for the role of PM now or for the forseeable future. Hopefully he has another 7-12 years in him to really transform India across the board. What he has set in motion in the past 2.5 years almost eclipses what the UPA did in 10 effing years.

For India this is almost unbelivable, a target being revised UPWARDS and that too by a factor of FIVE?? Damn.

As a critic of Modi I can honestly say there is no one even remotely close to him in terms of suitability for the role of PM now or for the forseeable future. Hopefully he has another 7-12 years in him to really transform India across the board. What he has set in motion in the past 2.5 years almost eclipses what the UPA did in 10 effing years.

It's not that Modi is doing very well. He is doing what any good leader should do. It's just that the UPA was extremely bad. UPA is making Modi look good.

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Agreed but I think it is a combination of the two, Modi certainly has his own personal charm as a leader and comes across very trustworthy (compared to the PMs I have seen in the UK this is quite a feat) btu naturally the UPA's truly abysmal performance is only making Modi look better.