Thanks for the info Steel Baker. This has been quite a thread. I appreciate the effort you have put into it.What I have done is to condense all the info in this thread and You Tube into step by step instructions in the attachmentthat I have included. I would appreciate any comments or corrections. Maybe somebody else will find it useful.

Thanks for the info Steel Baker. This has been quite a thread. I appreciate the effort you have put into it.What I have done is to condense all the info in this thread and You Tube into step by step instructions in the attachmentthat I have included. I would appreciate any comments or corrections. Maybe somebody else will find it useful.

pat

Looks good, thanks. This pizza has been an obsession of mine since I first started trying to make it in the '70's. Having grown up with so many great pizzas in NE PA, I felt like I had to document this style as much as I could.

SB, as a point of clarification, padakat's attachment says HG bread flour. Is this correct? Do you use BF or HG flour, or is there a HGBF? I usually see either BF or HG flour but not HGBF. Or is perhaps HGBF really just short for HG flour?

SB, as a point of clarification, padakat's attachment says HG bread flour. Is this correct? Do you use BF or HG flour, or is there a HGBF? I usually see either BF or HG flour but not HGBF. Or is perhaps HGBF really just short for HG flour?

Thanks,Chau

Either will work fine. I use Bread Flour. I think some people refer to all bread four as High Gluten Bread Flour. I've referred to it that way previously as a novice pizza baker.

This morning in my E-mail I received a newsletter from Americas Test Kitchen for pan pizza.Yours is equivalent to a Lamborghini and theirs, compared to yours, is a Yugo.I'll be trying this next week. Thanks for all the help.

I'd like to take a stab at calculating the thickness factor for your recipe so that it can be used in one of the dough calculating tools to make pizzas for different sizes of pans than the one you used in the video. However, I note that you indicated the weight of the IDY to be 9 grams in one post and 8 grams in another. The standard weight for a packet of IDY is 7 grams. You didn't weigh the IDY for the video but I assume that the number I would use is 7 grams. For the rest of the ingredients, I would use the weights that you measured out in the video (except for the oil). Does this sound like the correct approach to take?

I'd like to take a stab at calculating the thickness factor for your recipe so that it can be used in one of the dough calculating tools to make pizzas for different sizes of pans than the one you used in the video. However, I note that you indicated the weight of the IDY to be 9 grams in one post and 8 grams in another. The standard weight for a packet of IDY is 7 grams. You didn't weigh the IDY for the video but I assume that the number I would use is 7 grams. For the rest of the ingredients, I would use the weights that you measured out in the video (except for the oil). Does this sound like the correct approach to take?

Peter

Thanks Peter. Yes, that's fine. I buy my IDY in 1lb packages at Costco & weigh it in. When I used the bread maker yeast 2-1/4 tsp packets, I never weighed them in. I don't think the weight is too critical here whether it's 7, 8, or 9 grams.

I forgot to ask you if the salt that is used in the dough is Kosher salt (since that is what you put on the dough when in the pan) and, if so, what brand?

Also, have you ever practiced your recipe using a round pan, like a deep-dish pan?

Peter

I use Morton's Kosher Salt. The only round pies I've done have been early on (nearly 2 years ago) when I first figured out the techniques & flavors. I used to do a smaller batch in a 12" cast iron skillet since I didn't have any blue steel pans at the time. Other than that, I haven't really experimented with round pans. Primarily because the authentic VP pizza is rectangular and is baked in blue steel pans. At the time, the supplier of the pans was a local restaurant supply house in northeastern PA. They told me that VP used Nash Blue Steel pans. Their pans were 12"x36".

Note: The amount of dough is for a 12" x 17" sloping-sided blue steel pan; the bread flour used by steel_baker is from Costco or Sam's Club; no bowl residue compensation.

It will be noted that the volume numbers as set forth above are a bit different than some of steel_bakers volume numbers. That is because the conversion values embedded in the expanded dough calculating tool are different than what steel_baker has indicated. I also did not round out numbers. However, the differences should not have a material effect on the final results. Also, as steel_baker noted, one can also use a packet of IDY instead of weighing out the actual amount recited in his dough formulation, with no material effect on the final results.

The value of thickness factor that corresponds to steel_baker's dough is (711/28.35)/(12 x 17) = 0.122938. That is the value that should be used in the expanded dough calculating tool if one wishes to use a different size pan than the 12" x 17" pan that steel_baker uses. The other entries for the expanded dough calculating tool are the baker's percents noted above and the pan dimensions (using the Rectangular option). To give an example, I read recently that Norma purchased an 8" x 10" sloping-sided steel pan. If she wants to make a VP style pizza using that pan, which I believe she said she wanted to do, then the dough formulation for that purpose would look like this:

Note: The amount of dough is for an 8" x 10" sloping-sided blue steel pan; no bowl residue compensation

Of course, if one does not have Kosher salt on hand, it is possible to substitute regular table salt. The baker's percents are the same for both forms of salt. The expanded dough calculating tool will produce the right conversions to volume measurements. It is also possible to use a bowl residue compensation. For my KitchenAid stand mixer, I have found a value of 1.5% to be a good value. I also suspect that the results will not materially change if one has straight-sided pans rather than sloping-sided pans. The crust thickness is not so large as to make a material difference.

Now, there is little reason or excuse for one not to try out steel_baker's recipe to make other sizes of pizzas. Using the thickness factor option in the expanded dough calculating tool, one can even make round versions of steel_baker's dough formulation. Of course, when changing pizza sizes and shapes, one may have to monitor the baking of the pizza so that it does not come out overbaked or underbaked.

I mixed a dough for the Victory Pig style pizza last evening. I don’t know if I used the right kind of flour or not, but I used Better for Bread flour. I also reduced the amount of IDY to 2 grams because I am trying a two day cold ferment. I found the Vermont Cabot sharp white cheddar at my local supermarket, so I will use that in combination with mozzarella. Do you have any idea of how much of the cheese blend I should use for a 8”x10” pan? I used Peter’s formulation for a 8”x10” Victory Pig except for the yeast amount. I did use the same mixing regime you posted in your video.

I will let you know how the pizza turns out after the pizza is baked on Tuesday.

I know you aren't crazy about math, but the calculation for the cheese blend is (8 x 10)/(12 x 17) x 8 = 3.14 ounces, or about 79.5 grams. Half of that will be cheddar and the other half will be the mozzarella cheese.

You didn't ask how much crushed tomato or onion or peanut oil to use with your 8" x 10" pan, but the ratio of the areas of the two pans, 0.392, also applies to those three items. (Note: one can of crushed tomatoes and the half-onion are for four pizzas in the 12" x 17" pan.)

So:

Crushed tomatoes = (0.392 x 28 ounces)/4 = 2.74 ounces, or about 77.8 grams, by weightOnion = (0.392 x 1/2 onion)/4 = 0.049, or about a twentieth of an onion (or one fifth of a quarter section of onion, which can be eyeballed)Peanut oil (1 1/2 to 2 ounces, by volume, for the pan) = 0.392 x 1.5 = 0.59 ounces to 0.392 x 2 = 0.784 ounces, by volume (this is about 3 3/4 t. to about 5 t.)

Edit (12/7/11): Edited to note that one can of tomatoes and the half-onion are for four pizzas in a 12" x 17" pan and to correct the amounts of crushed tomatoes and onion to be used with an 8" x 10" pan.

Just to add some local knowledge regarding VP pizza, it's not a heavily topped pizza. The star of this pizza is the wonderful crispy bottomed crust and the hint of onion flavor with the tomatoes in the sauce. With that in mind, it's important to not use too much sauce or cheese. People who have done this (I think we all have that tendency when making pizza) find that the dough doesn't cook properly in the center. I am absolutely anal when it comes to "balance" in pizza. Too many restaurants that think they make wonderful pizza don't understand that a great pizza is one that is balanced. It must have a great crust and the proper (as in not too much) topping.

The mouth feel of this pizza has a crispy bottom and a soft rich top. The juxtaposition of those textures combined with the flavor is one of the qualities in this pizza that makes it so amazing and makes people come back for it again & again.

I take it from your location that you're in SE PA, probably in Berks, Adams, or Lancaster County. This would put Victory Pig at only a 2 hr drive for you. Take a drive up to the Victory Pig BBQ in Wyoming sometime & check it out.

I know you aren't crazy about math, but the calculation for the cheese blend is (8 x 10)/(12 x 17) x 8 = 3.14 ounces, or about 79.5 grams. Half of that will be cheddar and the other half will be the mozzarella cheese.

You didn't ask how much crushed tomato or onion or peanut oil to use with your 8" x 10" pan, but the ratio of the areas of the two pans, 0.392, also applies to those three items.

It isn’t that I am not crazy about math, but never learned to understand how to do math, except for easy math problems. I would need a tutor at my age to be able to understand how to do anything other than easy math.

Thanks for doing the calculations for the cheddar mozzarella blend, crushed tomatoes, onions, and peanut oil to use for the 8”x10” steel pan.

Thanks also for the link where Tom Lehmann also explains amounts for round pizzas.

Just to add some local knowledge regarding VP pizza, it's not a heavily topped pizza. The star of this pizza is the wonderful crispy bottomed crust and the hint of onion flavor with the tomatoes in the sauce. With that in mind, it's important to not use too much sauce or cheese. People who have done this (I think we all have that tendency when making pizza) find that the dough doesn't cook properly in the center. I am absolutely anal when it comes to "balance" in pizza. Too many restaurants that think they make wonderful pizza don't understand that a great pizza is one that is balanced. It must have a great crust and the proper (as in not too much) topping.

The mouth feel of this pizza has a crispy bottom and a soft rich top. The juxtaposition of those textures combined with the flavor is one of the qualities in this pizza that makes it so amazing and makes people come back for it again & again.

I take it from your location that you're in SE PA, probably in Berks, Adams, or Lancaster County. This would put Victory Pig at only a 2 hr drive for you. Take a drive up to the Victory Pig BBQ in Wyoming sometime & check it out.

steel_baker,

Thanks for adding some local knowledge regarding VP pizza. I would like to taste the wonderful crispy bottomed crust and hint of onion flavor with the tomatoes in the sauce. I can understand why it is important not to use too much sauce or cheese. I agree that many restaurants think they can make wonderful pizza, but really don’t understand what a great pizza is.

My location is in Lancaster County. I will have to see if I can persuade my daughter into driving me to Wyoming to try a real VP pizza. She has driven me to Wildwood, NJ, Washington DC, and NY different times to try pizzas. I guess I am what can be called a pizza addict (I hate to admit that ), in that I want to be able to understand how great pizzas taste and also want to learn what goes into making really good pizzas.

I am not sure how my VP attempt will go the first time because my pan is new and I will be using a deck oven baking at 525 degrees F. (that is the temperature I bake my normal pies at market) If my first attempt doesn’t work, I will try your VP recipe in my home oven.

Norma, Did you get a chance to bake the VP style pizza yesterday? I was concerned about cooking the pie at 525 - I think there is a good chance the oil will burn. I believe Peter has written about sources for the blue steel pans where you can order them individually through Northern Pizza Supply. I am still debating whether I will try to duplicate at home. I am near Victory Pig, and many other shops duplicate the greasy, crunchy crust of the style sometimes referred to as bakery pizza. It is a welcome and tasty variation. Mark