How is it perceived to see ME's in the design market? As I get closer to product development projects I tend to lean to the creative side of the process. I can't necessarily justify going through the academic process of getting an ID degree and internship etc., when I'm already established as an engineer, so I've been incorporating what I'm learning here in the projects I work on. Do you see ME's with portfolio's? Do they differ from the norm?

If you're an ME with wicked surfacing abilities, you'll do well. But expect to still be hired as a super competent ME, or in a role as an all around 1 man army. Trying to get a specific ID position may be harder, though not impossible.

It's typically not expected for ME's to have a portfolio. Although being able to point to work you've done that is far beyond what is typically expected of an ME will always be good.

As a hiring manager I would most certainly require a portfolio, and it had better show design process.

That said, if a position came down to an ID or an ME with comparable portfolios, I would have to have a really compelling reason to opt for the ME.

I used to work with an ME who thought he was an ID. His reasoning for going ME over ID was that he wanted the things he designed to be produce-able, but he couldn't develop a concept and present a proposal to save his hide, yet acted as though his CAD screenshots were entitled to be manufactured because he had tenure.. Add a strong dose of passive aggressive behavior into the mix and you have the perfect storm of what gives ME's a bad rep with some ID's.

Moral of the story, even if you never get into ID, don't be that guy, but if you do get into ID, have a compelling edge.

Greenman wrote:That said, if a position came down to an ID or an ME with comparable portfolios, I would have to have a really compelling reason to opt for the ME.

I'll throw in an opposing viewpoint here. I'd be much more interested in the ME (with 'comparable portfolios' - the value of an ME with ID sensitivity is high in my book).

Most of our projects require the input of ME's and sometimes EE's along with our valuable ID's but the role that really ties all of that together is the hybrid CAD guy. We have a few ME's who kick a*s on SW and a few ID's who kick a*s on Rhino, but the ID or ME turned CAD jockey is top dog. Sensitivity to design, knowledge of utility & mechanics and the ability to put it all into manufacturable 3D - awesome.

My advice, 'be all the ME you can be' while also bathing yourself in aesthetics and developing a strong knowledge base of CAD aptitude.

I think that depends on what your ultimate goal is as a professional. Remember, design is not just CADing up parts. Design is discovering what to design in the first place. Unraveling and defining the who, what, where, why, when, and how of a product. The most beautifully sculpted surface isn't worth a damn on the wrong product, or if it does not embody the right brand ethos, or connect with the larger culture around it. Never mistake a tool with a result.

Sure you can get a job, but will you have the foundation necessary to grow into the kind of profesional you would like to be in 10-20 years. This is a marathon, not a sprint. In the last fifteen years I've seen people take short cuts, get great immediate results, and then find themselves hitting a glass ceiling. I've seen others take their time, what seemed like steps backward, only to continue to rise as they progressed.

it also depends on the industry your going into. there are B to B products where ID doesn't matter.I worked in one such industry and displaced an ME who was really pissed until he saw what the difference was, it took awhile to bring him around but that's another story. The products sold to a captive market both B-B and B-C, so ID had little overall influence.I can't imagine an area where CADJockies call the shots instead of ID, unless the ID'rs are the most superficial of stylists.So ask yourself what type of product you want to design, are they consumer products (go into ID for sure) are they business products (then ID would still be a good bet) or are they industrial/manufacturing products (ME absolutely)

I like to see people branching off into other areas of new product development and see it as a definate plus. Segregating yourself into one area is limiting at best and can create walls in the process at worst.

You are an ME that wants to get into design. Great.You are ID and want to get into the research. Great.You are a researcher that wants to get into manufacturing. OK, that is a stretch, but if you have mastered the ID and ME before the leap into manufacturing, go for it.

My point is that there is a lot that goes into the NPD process and I find it boring to be stuck in one place.

Thanks for the input everyone! My take from this is to start developing a portfolio and if I feel I lack certain skills to accomplish that, then I have to strengthen those skills. I feel that one nice advantage to accomplishing the portfolio is that I already have products in the market. I've noticed since incorporating design sensitivities (as Generatewhatsnext called it) my presentation, conceptualization, and process have been evolving from project to project. Once I feel ready I'll start popping up a portfolio for critique.

I used to work with an ME who thought he was an ID. His reasoning for going ME over ID was that he wanted the things he designed to be produce-able, but he couldn't develop a concept and present a proposal to save his hide, yet acted as though his CAD screenshots were entitled to be manufactured because he had tenure.. Add a strong dose of passive aggressive behavior into the mix and you have the perfect storm of what gives ME's a bad rep with some ID's.

Moral of the story, even if you never get into ID, don't be that guy, but if you do get into ID, have a compelling edge.

Oh Boy!, that ME you are describing could be me in 4,5 more years!, I mean, I think I'm choosing ME over ID because I want to design things and I want them to be produce-able, not just beautiful concepts and modern art. Am I doing wrong?

ID is not about just making beautiful concepts, and MEs don't design things, they engineer things (though they say design often).

A good industrial designer knows just enough about how things are made to be dangerous, not so much that he/or she is locked into doing things the way they always have been. While everyone's role is slightly different, personally as a designer, I go to asia, work with manufacturers, sign off on tooling..... I'm held responsible for everything from product definition to revenue once it hits market. Being produceable is critical.

Here is a project my team just finished. It is IPX rated, shock tested, dust sealed, has serious sonic requirements, and an array of attachment methods. On top of all of that it has a removable silicone skin. Understanding and working with all of that was key for the design team, even though on the surface it is just a simple speaker.

I was trying to describe what my situation is (I improperly used the wrong words)

Right now I have a lot in my mind since I don't what should I go for..?If I go for ID how would I recognize that I'm going to far on my design and then go back or start a new design? Would I be wasting my joy and facility doing math?

I have a topic that I just created about this old dilemma and I'll appreciate every comment of you. Thank Yo

I was trying to describe what my situation is (I improperly used the wrong words)

Right now I have a lot in my mind since I don't what should I go for..?If I go for ID how would I recognize that I'm going to far on my design and then go back or start a new design? Would I be wasting my joy and facility doing math?

I have a topic that I just created about this old dilemma and I'll appreciate every comment of you. Thank Yo

CrazCruz - you didn't necessarily use the wrong words - I'll disagree with Yo just a tad bit here to let you know that some MEs do in fact design things, but its the ID person who partners with him on any particular project whose responsibility it is to make sure that any design work the mechanical engineer has developed fits with the sensitivities of the ID discipline (brand, color scheme, user interface, form, tactile/audible/visual feedback, etc). Similar to what Yo advised, I always describe the ID function as one that sits directly between engineers and marketers to bring all the develop parts together on behalf of the user - a well balanced industrial design function then also plays equally important roles at both the front end (research) and back end (manufacturing) of any product's development.

You can be a successful ME who contributes to the ID function just as efficiently as you can be a successful ID person who contributes to the engineering function.

Good point Scott, I was being a little hyperbolic in my language there to keep the post black and white, but it is a little more nuanced than that. The product development process is a collaborative dance.

"... he couldn't develop a concept and present a proposal to save his hide, yet acted as though his CAD screenshots were entitled to be manufactured because he had tenure.. Add a strong dose of passive aggressive behavior into the mix and you have the perfect storm of what gives ME's a bad rep with some ID's.

Moral of the story, even if you never get into ID, don't be that guy, but if you do get into ID, have a compelling edge.in 4,5 years"

But in my case, I already have a degree in ID. The thing is that I am (was??) not believing anymore that ID isn't just superficial. Here some reasons why:

- In Brazil, where I work and live, companies still don't rely on ID as much as in the developed countries. I think that might be because technologies and investment are not abundant. So, on one side, the client needs the designer to do both, design and engineering, or he hires an engineer and a recent graduated or undergraduate designer to make the product form; on the other side, the client with the best technology always wins here, is different from a place where every body kind of have the same technological knowledge and therefore design count a lot.

- The posts shown in the blogs Core77 and HumanInvent, the blogs that I really Love, are from a different category than the posts shown in, for example, Dexigner, Dezen or Mocoloco. I love Invention more that I love Design. I think Design education may be more about culture and communication, living a hole in technical fundamentals that are important for freedom of creation.

I think about the decision of study ME for a long time. Until i read this forum i was sure i was going to study ME. Now I am in doubt. My biggest fear is that my creations will never reach the level that I wanted for them.