12.25.2011

UPDATE: Hey so I noticed this thing has been getting some attention recently, so I wanted to point out that some of the information presented here is out of date and I wasn't aware of certain information at the time I wrote this that sinks my fan theory pretty readily. While not on exactly the same subject, a new article I just finished covers exactly what that certain information along with some other stuff. So if you're as into Godzilla continuity as much as I am, you might find it pretty interesting, and more accurate than this old thing.

HAPPY DECEMBERWEEN! "Millennium" Godzilla helps ring in the season BECAUSE HE'S GREEN. Didn't look into this too much, but it said the tree was put up in Odaiba on the source I downloaded it from, so i'm guessing this is from christmas 2000.

I have a happy funtime Decemberween eve present for you while i'm sitting here at one in the morning being all scroogey. This isn't, I guess, the next part of the Godzilla continuity thing, as I think I mentioned something about the rebirth of mothra timeline and other heisei era things that don't fit in the heisei timeline, but I did finish up, for all practical purposes, the heisei timeline, since I covered Final Wars.

Just to make this as clear as I can about Final Wars, though: the Godzilla in GFW IS Junior. That's not a crackpot fan theory, it's a fact. It's not debatable. If you don't like it thenyoucangyyyyeeeeeetout. It is never verbally stated in the film, but it is shown through the editing. It is also the only possible existing timeline in which to place the action of the film.

And for those who like to put GFW in it's own disconnected continuity: you aren't really wrong either, as Kitamura did knock out all other references to the timeline in the film, but whatever fan-made timeline you choose to construct for it that is UN-supported, remember that it has to conclude with the coda of GvsD showing us the current Godzilla. If you can do that without making GFW a part of the heisei timeline, more power to you, because there are no other guidelines stated in the film. Me? I'm going with what both the movie and the man himself, Shogo Tomiyama, said. Word of God and all that.

But for this segment it's time we go back. Back to 1999. The world is a different place now. Power Rangers in space is ending and with it all the relevant seasons of said show (except maybe dino thunder). I still listened to the radio. "Alternative" rock was still a thing. Prince was quoted more than necessary. Smash Bros. changed the world for the better. Nostradamus was right. King Ghidorah returned. The world was swallowed in the grip of pain and misery as the great King of Terror destroyed all civilization. A meteor was headed straight for the Earth. We built a moon base with regular traffic to and from made possible by the moonlight SY-3. On Earth, all the world's monsters were gathered in the Ogasawara Islands in a government run sanctuary named "Monsterland." Godzilla, Anguirus, Rodan, Mothra... AND GOROSAURUS!!! The world lied in ruins, and GINO (the pre-official name for Zilla, for all you youngin's) was still fresh in our minds.

Remember in 1999 when Godzilla went to New York? No, not 1998, the year after that. The thing in 1998 wasn't Godzilla, that was something else. It didn't really have a name before 2004 though. We just called it "faggot." Just kidding, in the peaceful utopia of an Ishiro Honda-ian future, there are no more wars between countries, people cooperate, science brings people closer together, people are treated as equals regardless of sex, gender, age, nationality, race, or even the few religions that are allowed to survive, and mankind no longer calls each other faggots. Oh yeah, I forgot, Zilla isn't people, it's a faggot. =/

So GINO ruined everything. As a crotchety old man, I can actually remember the days between memorial day 1998 and august 2000. The pain and anger GINO caused has been sort of forgotten by the youth of today, much like the hooligans from the next film in the sokougeki timeline, GMK. People don't just tolerate Zilla as a seperate entity nowadays, they actually LIKE that faggot. Back in 1999, this was unthinkable, and saying that where the grand G-fan thoughtocracy could hear you resulted in a false trial before J.D. Lees before being sent to the elaborate beheading machine crafted from the bones of infidels.

It took Toho exactly no time at all to understand the level of incompetency they sunk to by allowing that abomination to be created. Originally planning a longer hibernation for big G, like 2004 or so, they sprung into action and fired back with an ACTUAL Godzilla movie. Godzilla 2000, which was both made and takes place in 1999.

Despite being directed by Takao Okawara, and still being a 90's Godzilla movie... and it still being the literal heisei era (it's not just a buzzword for G-fans, it actually refers to the era of the current Japanese emperor which started in 1989, or Heisei-1), this film broke continuity for the second time and decided to inaugurate a third, all NEW series of Godzilla films.

The decision for doing this is one I've never understood. First of all, there's Junior. Second, remember at the end of GvsD Junior actually becomes the new Godzilla. And finally, what the heck happened to junior?

Instead we get a film where Godzilla is green, there is absolutely no indication what films are included in this new timeline, if any, and Godzilla just sort of shows up, and he's a new size. Also, he's green.

It ain't easy being green, although he still LOOKS gray in most of G2K, and most of the greenery is in GXM. Honestly, the most troubling part about this is when idiots (like Geoff Darrow) start some shit about Godzilla being green, and you have to correct them, but then go back and make this weird exception. =/

So, while I remember hearing some buzz about the only movies in the timeline were the original Godzilla and Return of Godzilla, but that's obviously not the case because Godzilla is 55m tall in G2K. The movie itself makes NO references of any kind directly referencing past events, not even the original Godzilla. All we know is that Godzilla exists, and occasionally shows up on the Japanese mainland to wreck some shit.

The next year, we got Godzilla X Megaguiras, which I have heard from several folks is supposed to be yet ANOTHER continuity-less film. This, and the following film GMK, sort of set a precedent for the millennium "series" being completely standalone films with no references to each other or any other Godzilla or Toho monster flick.

Well, GMK sort of fucked that up, but we aren't there yet.

I don't ever remember reading any official press release or monster zero (back when that was still a thing) article directly stating that G2K and GXM take place in completely different timelines. The most official source I have that says that is toho kingdom, so right away that should be a red flag. The idea of a series of disconnected films that don't reference the rest of Godzilla canon was a neat idea, for sure, but around GMK it fell apart, and then with GXMG, GMM, and GFW, the notion that the millennium series avoided fitting into any timeline at all was just thrown right out the window.

But GMK, GXMG, GMM, and GFW already have established timelines and continuities. So where does that leave us with the nebulously placed first two millennium films?

Well shit, that's easy, they take place in the same timeline. =/

Let's face it, even if we would have gotten six truly unrelated films, they still would have taken place more or less in the year they were released, and if they stuck to the G2K/GXM formula and reference NONE of the previous movies at all, the natural decision would be to link them up. Without continuity references whatsoever, there's nothing to stop it, and they would be referred to as a group as the "millennium series" anwyas, so fuck it.

They even feature the exact same Godzilla.

So what can we tell about this one true millennium continuity? Not much, obviously, as no other movies fit into it, and any information about past events prior to the ones in the films is limited at best. Here's the entirety of what the millennium continuity tells us:

OMG Orga is the stupidest fucking monster ever. You don't EAT Godzilla. Moreover, if he actually puts his head in your damn mouth... like, that's not a red flag? How many animals crawl into predator's mouths? Honestly, dude, you already know the guy can shoot fucking radioactive beams, how did you think this would end?

-70,000,000: Millennean spaceship crash lands on Earth. Since it's a solar powered ship and it's nighttime, it goes into hibernation for a long ass time.

- between then and 1999 - Godzilla occasionally shows up. GPN and CCI are formed and take two different approaches to the whole issue.

1999: events of Godzilla 2000

aaaaaaand that's it. =/ Now, let's take a look at GXM:

WTF TOHO??? WHY IS HE GREEN???

approx. -320,000,000: A wormhole opens up from 2001, allowing a Meganeura egg to come through and become mutated by the effects of the radiation or something.

1954: Godzilla, looking exactly the same as he does in 1999, and presumably the same in every other way too, destroys Tokyo. The attack mirrors that of the first film, but the events of the first film do not actually take place. For one thing: GODZILLA DOESN'T DIE.

1966: The new capitol is moved to Osaka, and a new diet building is built there. Godzilla reappears after 12 years to feed on energy from the Tokai Nuclear Power Plant. Then runs off again. Nuclear energy is banned, and cleaner alternatives are pursued.

1996: A new type of energy called plasma energy is created in order to deal with the energy crisis the lack of nuclear power has created. Unfortunately, it's essentially the same thing as nuclear energy (omg the government lied to us! D:), and Godzilla comes back and is all "fuck your building" again.

2001: Between 1996 and now, an actual military unit called G-Graspers is formed. They attempt to do all of the things GPN and CCI do, tracking, studying, and attempting to eliminate Godzilla. The rest of Godzilla X Megaguiras occurs here.

We can see that while the GXM continuity is rather sparse and bare, it does establish a universe where the action takes place, like the fact that this is still the first Godzilla, the new capitol is Osaka, and we are told that Godzilla's appearances have been sporadic and, with him seemingly going after any new energy source Japan tries to find, Godzilla tracking and warning systems are probably more important than devising a way to kill him. After all, for over 40 years nothing anyone has ever done has made any sort of dent in the creature.

The two films still tell different, unconnected stories, but combining the two into one timeline gives us a clearer picture of a world where Godzilla's appearance is something that can't be predicted accurately and the problems he creates affect humans for more than simply just making up new mecha to fight him. Also, it's the same fucking Godzilla. Seriously.

the GMK timeline breaks tradition by having a clear continuity:
1954 Godzilla
1998 ZILLA
2001 Godzilla, Mothra, and King Ghidorah

Everything is as in the films, the only thing is that instead of the Showa/Heisei tradition of introducing a second Godzilla, this one is quite literally a Ghost Godzilla, being the body of the original completely regenerated from... idunevenknoe. I'm calling this the Sokougeki timeline. You folks at home can call it the Millennium-2 timeline if you like.

Godzilla's a zombie, Mothra doesn't have any fairies, and King Ghidorah is a GOOD GUY? This movie sucks balls. =/

After that, we get back to more normal references for two films in a row. GXMG and GMM fit into a very specific continuity which includes non-Godzilla films and shows both before and after. Essentially, the Millennium-3 timeline is the Showa timeline but without a second Godzilla. Well, for a while.

Toho Kingdom is nice enough to cite it's sources as far as this is concerned. This is good, because it means we don't have to rely on the dumb things they say, but can check the facts for ourselves.

This was the information provided in the GXMG book:

sorry if blogspot cuts this off. =/ You can view the full thing by right clicking, I believe.

This tells us about the kaiju who have appeared in GXMG canon. It doesn't give us much of a context for it, and I can't read Japanese, so this is pretty much what we have to go on. Just like in Godzilla X Megaguiras itself, the events of War of the Gargantuas and Mothra clearly happened in their entirety. Obviously, the original Godzilla happened as well, but with one itty bitty teensy weeny alteration: the skeleton of the original Godzilla didn't disintegrate. But you knew that. The vibe one would get from this is that the timeline of GXMG looks like this:

Just two things: one, Toho doesn't own King Kong, and you're sort of expected to imply his existence these days, Mechanikong is sort of taboo ever since 1991, and Toho doesn't seem to understand the novel, doctor, and monster Frankenstein are all in the public domain. Also, not all these movies took place the same year they were made:

Since we've established that GXM doesn't exactly follow G54 to a T, it's pretty clear showa-era continuity fudging is allowed. The showa era films were rarely consistent with each other, as I've already pointed out, so expecting them all to mesh so many decades later is just asking too much. Gorath is like the last one I haven't seen at this point, and I understand Gorath destroys our moon at some point. Hey, remember how DAM, which was both made after and takes place after Gorath, features a moon base prominently? Yeah, this is not the place to get uber nerdy. We're back in loose interpretation territory. The continuity is only tight when it matters, and the only time it matters is between GXM and GMM. Speaking of which...

Uh oh. This one is in timeline format. Did the guy who made this forget that Gorath took place in 1982 and FCTW in 1960? Gawsh it sure seems like it. But the inclusion of the appearance of the second Godzilla 1999 and the second Kamoebas in 1987 sort of points to the events happening as they are here, rather than in the movies. You're still supposed to be implying the presence of King Kong, Mechanikong, and Frankenstein, by the way.

Oh wait, look at this: the timeline points out 2003 and mentions Mothra's reappearance in 2004... but, wait, it was clearly stated in GXMG that it took three years from 1999 to build Mechagodzilla, which puts the movie in the year 2002, and GMM is one year after that, so...

Oh, duh, the timeline presented here is flawed. So looks like we WERE right, and the Millennium-3 timeline does indeed follow the "fuck it, no one remembers it because home video isn't invented yet" school of showa continuity. Cool, so the timeline goes like:

1954 Godzilla, but the skeleton survives
1956 Rodan
1958 Varan
1960 Frankenstein Conquers the World
1961 Mothra
1963 Atragon
1964 Dogora
1966 War of the Gargantuas
1967 King Kong Escapes
1970 Space Amoeba
1982 Gorath, but the moon isn't destroyed
1987 A second Kamoebas appears. Not sure if this one survives, or if the one from 2003 is a THIRD Kamoebas
1999 a second Godzilla appears for no discernible reason
2002 Godzilla X Mechagodzilla
2003 Godzilla: Tokyo S.O.S.

Done, right? haha no but that's cute you think that. There are more similarities to the show days as well: this continuity isn't Godzilla centric, and it doesn't stop there. Unfortunately, I STILL haven't watched all of even one of the three choseishin series yet, so...

Oh, what? Yeah, Gransazers, Justirisers, and Sazer-X all take place in the Millennium-3 timeline. Masers, Hiroshi Koizumi, and the Gotengo all make appearances, as do expies of monsters not already part of the timeline, like Moguera, Hedorah, Ebirah, Bagan, and King Ghidorah. They call them names like Megarion, Deathball, Zarigan, Reizaus, and Mammoth Bosquito, but they aren't fooling anyone.

You're not fooling anyone "Deathball."

Gransazers establishes that the Warp Monarch destroyed most of the Gransazer civilization 400 MILLION years ago, so obviously we're talking about time traveling humans here. Justirisers is focused on a alien war in the present, and Sazer-X has most of the team come from the year 5000 to defeat the space pirates Descal (it's "de skull," but whatever) right when the invasion begins, as it is quite impossible in 5000 since they're so bonkers powerful. =/

Any other continuity references made in those series I am unaware of. I've seen a handful of episodes (the first 7 or so of gransazers, the pilot of sazer-x) and the movie, but i'll get there. Riseross is the best zord ever, by the way.

But all of this is ignoring the elephant(s) in the room.

Where did the second Godzilla come from? In all the timelines with a second Godzilla, they show up as soon as they possibly can. Why was the M3 second Godzilla so lazy?

Could it be he didn't actually EXIST until 1999? How is that possible? Where did he come from? We know that time travel happens in the M3 universe, but that's from the choseishin series, which occurs after GXMG, so does that really werk? Where else could Godzilla have come from? Where do you get those from?

...I mean, there's plenty of different Godzilla's in the different continuities, but, none of them ever got sucked into a wormhole that transports living creatures through time and space, and then showed empirical evidence (such as a coda) that the Godzilla in question survived such a transportation...

WAIT A MINUTE!!!

Now, I know what you're thinking. "But that's clearly the same kid from GXM, and like, no in the past. And like, not from a different universe."

First of all, that's the implication, yes, but you have no proof of that. Second, we've already established that M3 continuity is not... very tight. Godzilla had to come from somewhere, and this is the only Godzilla that ever traveled through a wormhole.

The implications of this are just awesome. It brings the whole stated goal of having the millennium "series" be standalone to a head by having the same Godzilla actually cross between realities.

Now, of course, this is my personal fan theory. It's not stated or even hinted at. What i'm doing is finding a way to explain several things:

1. Where the second M3 Godzilla came from.
2. Where the M1 Godzilla went.
3. Find a way to connect a series of films that are known for not being very connected without actually contradicting the events of the films themselves.

Having the second M3 Godzilla actually BE the M1 Godzilla makes a hell of a lot of sense in that regard, but to be fair, one could just as easily say that the M1 Godzilla got sent back to 1999 in the G2K universe if it is indeed an entirely separate one, which I seriously doubt.

You, the folks at home, can take it or leave it. All it is is a fan theory. As far as i'm concerned it doesn't hurt anyone and it makes everything a lot cooler. But, just for fun, let's quote something from Toho Kingdom that actually supports my theory:

"At first, producer Shogo Tomiyama was planning for three stand alone films, and from these three Toho would decide which of the movies to dedicate a series about, or if the Heisei series should be revisited. This idea, however, was aborted after a meager box office showing by Godzilla 2000: Millennium (1999) and Godzilla vs. Megaguirus (2000) stumbled out of the gates, and ended up being a box office flop. It was then discussed that the 2001 Godzilla film might mark the closure of what would have been a short lived series."

I actually remember hearing all about this, so it's not really a lie. However, it is really misleading. The initial idea was to give three directors free reign of Godzilla without any pressure to follow an established canon. The first was the Heisei veteran Takao Okawara, then Masaaki Tezuki, then Gamera and Pyrokinesis fan-favorite Shusuke Kaneko. The thing about GMK looking like the last one for a while was also true, but it didn't actually effect the plan for the millennium series. Tomiyama still looked at the three previous films and made the decision to hand it over to Tezuka. The GFW being a heisei continuation has more to do with it being a 50th anniversary than anything else.

But, going from the quote alone, what Tomiyama was saying was that after GMK, he decided to pick the continuity that Tezuka created, meaning that GXM is somehow connected to GXMG. True story, I read it in Toho Kingdom's articles section, so it MUST be true.

When all is said and done, the millennium series is still, from a larger perspective, pretty disconnected, but also part of a larger universe ala M3. Assuming that the initial two films and the M3 timeline are connected through wormholes as per my crazy fan theory, that means we have:

The Shodakai timeline which is just Godzilla and ALWAYS 2
The Showa timeline which is pretty much every Toho sci-fi flick up until 1977
The Heisei series, which actually focused on continuity, and only contains 9 specific movies
- The future where Godzilla never recovers from the A.N.E.B. that Emi originally comes from
- The future where Mecha-King Ghidorah never existed and Godzilla turns Japan into a wasteland, and the one to which Emi returns to in order to build Mecha-King Ghidorah and set in motion the events of the rest of the Heisei series
The Millennium series, which is multiple universes except possibly:
1. G2K and GXM occur in the same universe
2. The GXM Godzilla survived the dimension tide and ended up as the second Godzilla from GXMG
The Sokougeki timeline, in which Godzilla is a zombie, Zilla exists, and King Ghidorah is a good guy

And that's it.

What's left to cover? Well, the heisei Mothra series for one. Also, I'd like to talk about the Godzilla Legends/Gangsters and Goliaths continuity since it makes even less internal sense than the showa one. The super godzilla timeline since it's the only canon appearance of Bagan. aaaaaand prolly some more stuff i'll never get to.

4 comments:

I agree with you of the Final Wars Godzilla being Jr. Some do, some don't.But I think it is really him, even though there is some clue in the intro beforethe movie starts, and we see the image of him in the title. Plus he really doesn'tkill any of the kaiju, he spares them. Plus even though he tried to kill the crewof the Gotengo, but is because he's really pissed off by what they did, Trappinghim in ice. He tries getting revenge, but if it wasn't for Minya, who pleaded hisdad not to kill them, and end his rage of fury at humankind. Even though some may doubt, but it is very clear, even though it is not confirmedin the film, but they do give clues or hints.

You know, again, and I'm not sure exactly how many times I can go over this before you just have to admit that you're talking to someone with a learning disability, but whether or not GFW is in continuity with the VS. Series isn't a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact. The film, as finished, has direct continuity nods axed and the setting be more generalized from the specific date to "20XX," this is true, but the intent of the pre-Kitamura story, and this is important so pay attention, is STILL IN THE FILM. When you watch the film, the opening sequence points out that yes, this is Junior, and that's what happens. This is FACT, not OPINION, got it? If you'd like, you can tell yourself that the opening sequence never happened, and thus default to the remainder of Kitamura's film which, like G2K, makes absolutely no reference to any past film's continuity and is intentionally vague, but if you choose to do this you are not only denying what the film says about itself, but you're also saying that GFW doesn't HAVE continuity, which is, again, simply not true.

The people who don't understand this, by and large, are idiots. Not because I dislike them personally, understand, but in a literal sense, their inability to understand this makes it clear their intellectual capabilities are inferior to a normal person's, as in, they're legitimately stupid. This is not a hard concept to wrap your head around, anyone who's incapable of doing so has, I'm sorry to say, something wrong with them.

Well, this could just be shown as a tribute to the original films like the rest of the opening montage, and even though it's shown at the same time as the frozen Final Wars Godzilla, it doesn't mean it's the same creature. The Godzilla Wiki lists this in their list of Common Godzilla Misconceptions.

Again, if one chooses to interpret (and this is what you're doing, making your OWN interpretation of the original work, not following the INTENT of the original work) Junior's appearance as being a "tribute," then sure, you can say GFW has no continuity with any past Godzilla or Tohoverse film at all whatsoever. And, again, this doesn't meant that it merely isn't a part of the Heisei timeline, it means that it DOESN'T HAVE one. There is no continuity, there is no story, there are no characters, there is no point, it is nothing more than a huge waste of everyone's time. If this is what you, as the audience, CHOOSE to think, that's fine. But again, this is fan-fiction, not the intent of the actual finished film itself. I could say all day long that King Kong vs. Godzilla takes place in the same universe as Blade Runner, but baby, that just doesn't make it so.

More importantly, this needs to be nipped in the bud right the fuck now. Wikizilla is NOT, I repeat, NOT a source. It is an aggregation of sources with a hefty amount of implicit editorializing, and nothing more. Wikizilla says all sorts of stuff, such as: Godzilla vs. Bagan was seriously considered for Godzilla 7 at some point, Godzilla vs. the Devil is just a hoax yet Godzilla vs. the Gargantuas is not, the 1993 Mechagodzilla's name is Mechagodzilla 2, the 1975 Mechagodzilla's name is Mechagodzilla 1, and that a thing called "Beta Godzilla" exists in both Godzilla Generations games. None of these things are true, in fact they are all straight-up, bold faced, clear as day, absolute verifiable LIES.

The original film-maker's intent is not a "misconception," sorry to have to break it to you this way, but yes, that's just another one of the ever growing list of lies hosted on Wikizilla's pages.

Also, to be perfectly honest, it's a tad bit insulting that you'd come to me, ME, and read off a soundbyte on a notoriously untrustworthy website, because it makes it look like I, Tracy, the single most intensely fanatical observer of the Godzilla myth cycle in the entire world, is somehow trumped by an, again, festering pit of lies.

I'm assuming you didn't mean it that way, and were just pointing it out, but there you go.

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