>The other thing I wonder about is he tore apart a bunch of hard routes>in the Blueys, and mentions only 2 down here - why didn't he tear apart>Taipan, lower taipan, Sandinista Wall or uncle charlie in the same way?> This is a roundabout way of saying Australia still has plenty of hard>routes, and those outside of the Blueys don't get that much traffic,

Strange comment, Wendy... I would have thought ticking Groove Train, Somalia, and the Wheel of Life in a short 3 week visit is pretty impressive. From what I know he did a lot of other routes as well, but they don't really rate on the "hard-o-meter". And wasn't the weather absolutely rotten in the Gramps last month?
Surely Groove train and Punks would have to be the most frequently climbed hard routes in Australia? Last I looked they weren't in the Blue Mtns!

On 23/08/2013 widewetandslippery wrote:>>Has the Conehead direct line been looked at recently. There are definitely>some hollow sections in the cliff covereed by a thin layer of surface rock.>If these were smashed out with say a block splitter there would be holds>and the line would probably go. Dont think of it as chipping, just improving>on nature.

I was referring to this list:
"At Arapiles he climbed Somalia, he dogged it one afternoon and had three redpoint attempts that day, then sent it first shot the next morning. He said 33 (8c) is probably right for that one (although it felt more like 8c+ to him initially, he afterwards spoke with Wiz Finneron — the first ascentionist — and learned that he’d missed some drop-knee beta that would have definitely helped). In the Grampians Alex sent Groove Train, again working it one afternoon then sending it first shot the next day that he was on it. He found the crux was extremely reachy (he’s 172cm) but the rest of the route was his style, saying it was definitely 33 or 8c, not harder, even if the extremely run-out nature of the route might make it feel that way. He also said that Groove Train was “one of the best I’ve ever climbed”. Then up here in the Blue Mountains he flashed Pooferator (31), sent Truckstop 31 (32) first shot (a flash except that it shares the start of Pooferator), onsighted Fabricator (28) then sent the link-up of Keep on Trucking (33) next shot (it starts up Pooferator and finishes up Fabricator – which he’d sussed) — all in the one day. He confirmed those grades for those routes although said there wasn’t much in it between Truckstop and Keep on… And another day he sent Mechanical Animals comfortably on his third shot, confirming the grade as 8c or 33."

Which I just thought was little strangely leaning to Blue Mtns routes, (at 6:2 or so it's actually not as skewed as my first impresssion thought it was though ..) - 4 of them in one day is without a doubt impressive, but are there reasons that it's possible to do 4 really bloody hard routes in the Blueys in a day and not 4 really hard routes on Taipan in a day? Or all the other hard routes on Uncle Charlie? Maybe it's just that lots of stuff didn't make it onto that post. And yeah, maybe the weather had something to contribute to that - it's certainly left a little to be desired since i came home.

that ratio is actually rather coincidental!! There are in fact (almost) 3 to every 1 hard route (31 and over) in the mountains when compared to the gramps!!

Boy, this kid did his research!

For those interested in the approximate stats... give or take the odd over graded route of course ;) the mountains has about 59, gramps 20 odd, araps 8ish, nowra 15 or so ..... then about another 15 scattered across the rest of the country.

On 23/08/2013 Lee C wrote:>that ratio is actually rather coincidental!! There are in fact (almost)>3 to every 1 hard route (31 and over) in the mountains when compared to>the gramps!! >>Boy, this kid did his research! >>For those interested in the approximate stats... give or take the odd>over graded route of course ;) the mountains has about 59, gramps 20 odd,>araps 8ish, nowra 15 or so ..... then about another 15 scattered across>the rest of the country.

Sorry it's not more detailed Wendy. My report was focusing on Retired Extremely Dangerous, I wasn't trying to list every last route that he did, just trying to give a feel for where he is at with his climbing and his opinion on some grades. Yes routes are missing, for example, he also did Snakes on a Train on Taipan, and I *think* it was first shot (having done Groove Train) but since I'm not 100% sure if it was first shot I wasn't going to mention it without checking, also I don't know what else he did that day...

Maybe I should have sat down and interrogated the poor guy more because there are some interesting things about his time here that are just coming out. Today he told me about something else that had gone unreported -- that he did a new boulder problem link in the Hollow Mtn Cave. He called it Wheelchair (the name should kinda explain where it goes) and gave it a route grade of 9a+, saying it was harder than the Wheel of Life which he'd give 9a. So I guess that'd be the hardest boulder problem in Oz now? He also mentioned another problem he did high up on Stapylton *somewhere* which he though was extremely hard... He's going to send through details sometime later.

>but are there reasons that it's possible to do 4 really bloody hard routes in the Blueys in a day and not 4 really hard routes on Taipan in a day?
Well again I don't know what he did in a day on Taipan so I don't know if the question is correct, but there could be reasons such as the Taipan routes are generally a lot longer than those ones at Shipley and there's more flaffing around required on Taipan... Also, by Alex's standards I wouldn't say he did 4 really hard routes at Shipley, Fabricator wouldn't rate for him as anything other a warm up, I only mentioned it for clarity about how quickly he did Keep on Trucking. So don't over analyse my list. He also mentioned something about doing all the routes on Spurt Wall except for Not Too Bad (and I can only assume he was intimidated by that ;-p because he didn't even try it). But we didn't go into details and perhaps there were other routes he skipped, so don't quote me.

On 23/08/2013 Wendy wrote:>The other thing I wonder about is he tore apart a bunch of hard routes>in the Blueys, and mentions only 2 down here - why didn't he tear apart>Taipan, lower taipan, Sandinista Wall or uncle charlie in the same way?> This is a roundabout way of saying Australia still has plenty of hard>routes, and those outside of the Blueys don't get that much traffic, which>i suspect is related to the styles being more diverse or involving trad>gear or run outs. I have no idea what else this guy has done worldwide,>but in general, i think "friendly" hard routes get a lot more traffic,>which might also be related to that "sport creep" syndrome.

I have to say that your comments seem a little out of whack Wendy. This guys sends what are unquestionably the hardest routes/boulder problems in Victoria in just a few days in shit weather. I was surprised to read that he didn't get on Punks but my guess is that he was probably saving it for a possible onsight/flash attempt when he felt ready.

The whole tick list certainly is not out . . .
I heard he did Punks 2nd shot . . .
Flashed past the crux 1st shot, he's seen the usual videos so not really onsight
and fell of past that point not knowing where it went exactly, that doesn't get shown in the usual videos,
Worked out where it went and ticked it 2nd shot . . .

On 25/08/2013 Macciza wrote:>The whole tick list certainly is not out . . .>I heard he did Punks 2nd shot . . .>Flashed past the crux 1st shot, he's seen the usual videos so not really>onsight >and fell of past that point not knowing where it went exactly, that doesn't>get shown in the usual videos, >Worked out where it went and ticked it 2nd shot . . .>>maybe it was his warmup for Somalia?
Macca is correct.

I thought in hindsight there was probably a bunch of stuff unreported, it did just seem odd that in 2 areas with more than a few hard routes, he only did 1 in each, and it appears he did do quite a bit more . And having climbed at the Mt the last few days, I can confirm the conditions are terrible - seepage all over the shop and really spoogy. So i wouldn't doubt there were weather limitations, and if the rock felt anything like it does now, sending thin, slopey, smeary stuff such as a lot of the Araps hard routes is extra impressive.

I should put a caveat on that conditions comment. Dave thinks they are great and has been on some desperate boulder problems. Aside from thinking that we are probably of a different species, conditions are probably a lot better if you can climb 45 degree overhanging boulders without anything to seep water down them.

On 25/08/2013 Macciza wrote:>I heard he did Punks 2nd shot . . .>Flashed past the crux 1st shot, he's seen the usual videos so not really>onsight >and fell of past that point not knowing where it went exactly, that doesn't>get shown in the usual videos, >Worked out where it went and ticked it 2nd shot . . .

Really Macca? Sounds far fetched to me. That's gonna be my new number one excuse for falling off.. "fuch it, I fell off. It's only cause I haven't seen the video for those moves, otherwise I woulda smashed it". If he fell off after the birdbath maybe he was pumped?? Plenty do. Not knowing where it went?? It couldn't be more straight-up climbing, with plenty of chalk on the obvious holds.
I wish I'd seen him climbing out here, that would've been something.

gday n that ...I needa hand with the following ...probably some thread on CS that answers all this ... but wanna get facts right ...WHAT WERE AND WHO DID FIRST ASCENT OF EACH AUSTRALIAN GRADE BETWEEN 17 AND 35 ...fair dinkum technical rock climbing starts around 12-16 ...ima sure aboriginals ...eerrrrr....indigenous people were climbing in that range for 40000 years anyway ....getting eggs out of nests on cliff faces etc ...

Grade 25....First thought top be freeing of Dreadnought by Pikesta
..........then Ostler by Pikesta at Bunderleer ....but generally agreed to be The Undertaker free at Araps by Claw and Java .... BUT ....there is a myth that Henry was climbing 25 at the base of Manic Depressive at Bunderleer in the days before a rock stack appeared at the base of the route....dunno ....

Grade 26....Procul free at Araps by Kim Carrigan

Grade 27...Fox ? Denim ? Yesterday ? at Araps by Kim Carrigan

Grade 28....Kim claimed it on Fox and Yesterday direct maybe ....BUT Cobwebs by Mark Mike ?( this name appears in the litterature a few times ) Moorehead is generally regarded / celebrated as Australias first 28 ...