Where do you learn about wood railing fabrication etc?

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I'm a successful hardwood flooring contractor (install, sand, stain) seeking for training in the art and science of railing fabrication. I have googled the subject to death and have come to the conclusion that there is no school out there that teaches this. I am hoping someone can prove me wrong.

I have alot of customers who ask about getting stair cases refaced and I turn them down because I do not know the railing aspect of the job.

I have successfully refaced a few stair cases on a personnal basis with some success, but definitely did not have any proper direction in doing so. The railing aspect always confuses me. I end up fiddling around with the rail until it fits properly, but there is not rhyme or reason to my methods.

I have found a few books mentioned on this forum and I can safely say, even with my mechanical engineering technologist background, that they are way too complicated for me.

If anyone can provide guidance or suggest a school (anywhere in the world) please email me at alex@afwoodfloors.ca

Hi,
Perhaps Dusty was a bit rough on you but the stair in your gallery on the website is still illegal and unsafe for children. I won't say why because if you don't know then perhaps Dusty was right on.
The Coffman book on stairs and railings is a great place to start. Check the local building codes as well.
When posting here it is rude to request a response by email since that leaves the people reading this forum with no answers to your question. If you don't intend to check back and interact with others then many would probably prefer that you not post so they don't see just your question but no answers. They clicked on your question as much for the answers as a desire to share knowledge.
I hope you get help here but not by private email
Richard

Hey Dusty have you ever picked up A Treatise on Stairbuilding and Handrailing? No need for condescending remarks.

RichardP thanks for pointing that picture out. You are right about that staircase being unsafe. The homeowner just asked me to solidify, sand seal and finish it, and did not want to pay to have it all redone.

I can tell you why the staircase was unsafe. OBC says 4" between pickets. Open risers must be less than 4" as well. Rail height probably under 32" from edge of treads. Etc etc. I'm not the idiot who put the thing together. Yes, I was the last one to touch it so maybe you could sue me if your kid broke his neck between the pickets. Are you going to correct me for saying rail instead of handrail? Again, besides the point. Looking for some direction here for maybe a school (anywhere in the world actually) where I can learn directly from a mentor, not a scientist who died 50 years ago.

To be honest I don't know of any schools or classes that one can take to learn stair building beyond seminars that are usually specialized to the trade and most time presented as part of a machine demonstration. Books are available for even basic stair building and hand railing but don't be surprised on your first job that there is something needed to be done that's not"written in a book". I'm a third generation stairbuilder who learned from my father and have been doing this for 26yrs and still find challenges needed to be worked out. No offense to you as a craftsman but I personally don't think someone should mix specialties when you don't have any first hand experience in this field. I see every day guys that will pat themselves on the back for a good job only because they themselves think it's great when it's obvious to any true knowledgeable stairbuilder that they were hacks. You may have the skill and you may have the drive but to do what you want you must be able to learn from something other than a book. If you didn't already have a business in flooring I would suggest trying to work for a stairbuilder but I don't know at this point in your life if that's possible with your other commitments. I have people all the time assume because I build and install stairs and rails that I can do anything...WRONG! I can do a lot, including install hardwood floor. But what I specialize in is stairs and tell them that I wouldn't be doing them a favor because it's not my thing. I was always told "do one thing and so it to the best of your ability". If floors are your thing then improve your abilities and leave the other stuff go. Make relationships in your area with stair professionals who you can use as a sub and explain to customers why you feel better allowing an expert in that field do that portion even if it's more than they are willing to pay. I hope you do well regardless of what venture you choose and just remember you can't learn everything from a book

There are no schools that I know of that teach stair making or trimming. It is one of those subjects that is dropping off the horizon and soon to be described as 'no one knows how that was done anymore...' Future stairs will all be made by CAD/CNC and they'll look like it. Witness current discussions about the Miracle Stair in New Mexico, where mere mortal man is excluded from the popular discussion.

Spend a few months with a trimmer that installs balustrades/stair parts/them things that go on them stairs. The L J Smith Guide is also still a good resource.

The Stairway Manufacturers Association may also have publications and info that can help. Their books are nothing new, but some of their code info is helpful.

Or the best place to start may be Gary Katz. Contact him thru Woodweb or his website - Katz Roadshow or others. He is very approachable and loves to share his knowledge about our favorite subject. He may have some good recommendations about where to start. you have already found what Amazon has, and that is about it for printed materials.

Railing fabrication today is "factory parts only" with only a few dinosaurs like myself who actually fabricate custom handrail. I also teach the subject (tangent handrail) in group seminars or individual consulting but, I seriously doubt that's what you're looking for.

"Stair Installation" is probably a more accurate description of your current requirement and this falls squarely under "finish carpentry skills" or "specialty contractors".

This "stair installation" trade is usually acquired by working for a stair company as an apprentice or working as a "helper" for a stair installer. (I suspect the same applies in learning installation of hardwood flooring?)

I know of at least one gifted stair builder who is willing to teach or consult but this involves an expensive visit to his shop for individual training. This kind of thing is usually geared for the journeyman stair builder who is attempting to move into specialized, circle/stair and handrail fabrication.

Anyway, I should also warn you that almost all the classic old books written on the subject (treatise etc.) bear little resemblance to the stair industry as it exists today. Mostly what you learn from these books, will relegate you to period restoration/replication work or to "no work at all". (I do love those old books though.)

Hi jim just wondering if you could send me the gentlemans name and number. Id be interested to speak with him and send him some pictures of my work to see if i would be "worthy" enough to teach. Ive done one semi circular laminated maple guardrail, routered the profile and installed along with matching nosings. Ive also done a couple of stair reface jobs that turned out nice (not the one on my website mentioned earlier lol). Id like to see what this gentleman could offer me for training.

You still have time to learn stair work.
Quite honestly though there is alot of wood working knowledge in stairs. It is definitely not something you`ll learn quickly. You might go work for somebody and build 1 stair in 2-3 months time and then the next stair will be totally different. Keep your day job and learn stairs as a hobby!

I was trained as a carpenter to cut roofs and stairs. In the 70's when we wer trimming houses I ended up going and building all the redwood decks and stairs and railings and the custom roofs and segmented and round walls on homes.

Then in commercial they moved me between projects making custom captive stringer stairs and roofs.

The key to doing it without factory parts is learning how to use a framing square, once you learn how to do straight runs you can learn to think about curves and tangents and transitions. I have never done what Jim has done, I might be able to figure it out but without a computer and CNC I couldn't do it from scratch. I would go to a specialist if I had a need.

We have formed curved rails and skirts but that was just making a form and bending around the form but that was years ago.

We will be doing some curved skirts and caps on a project next month but its PG material so that's pretty forgiving and we can template the stairs which are metal.
A-

Alex,
I've been in the stair business since your roof cutting days and have managed to learn a few things but Email me for specific information or referrals since referrals to another woodworking website or individual may not be kosher.

Alex
what Jim was saying about the old books on stairs is true. they are useful for restoration or building stairs from scratch in the old style. I went to a school that teaches that method (see the link). those lovely old books are difficult for anyone to understand until you immerse yourself in both the written and visual language of the time that it was written... a bit like learning to read and understand Shakespeare. so look them over again, and if you want to get into historic work, or custom work of exceptional quality, check out that school.

Alex,
Marc Adams school of woodworking has had Gary Striegler teaching stairways in the past.You could contact Gary and see if he will be doing anymore there in the future. He may even be willing to give you a private class.I took a veneering class with Marc Adams, best money I ever spent!

if I wanted to learn I would find a job at a small stair company. even if it is minimum wage and you are just a helper it is a lot cheaper than paying someone to teach you. and you will learn all aspects of the build. handrails, treads, spindles, and allot of tricks to the trade, just an Idea.

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