Isnt Delmas a FS? And arent Berry and Mays also FS's? What would we do with that situation if we took Berry/Mays.

Also, whether or not Okung is real good or not, he would be an immediate upgrade over Backus wouldnt he?

KS... IMO you don't take a player top 5 and pay them top 5 money unless you really believe that they can be really good. Even if he is a slight upgrade over Backus, you don't take him unless he can be your franchise LT, at least for the duration of his K. I'm not saying that Okung isn't that guy, I'm just saying that if you're going to make that kind of investment in a player he better be damn good at what he does...

As far as Berry/Mays... I think Mays will end up being a SS given his size, but I could be wrong. The main reason I don't want Berry is because he's undersized and Delmas isn't exactly big himself. I'd take Mays over Berry for our needs. If it means not drafting a S at all, I'm fine with that too (i.e. if Berry is projected ahead of Mays and Mays goes 13th ish, and we can't move into that area)...

I'm hoping a CB rises into the top 10. That's our biggest area of need on D IMO... I think that a dominant DE would make the biggest difference, but I like said before, I think our DL will be better next year even if we don't add anyone, and I can't say the same about our CBs. That, coupled with the fact that there really isn't a dominant DE in this draft, pulls me towards wanting an LT or CB if we can't get somoene like Suh...

November 25th, 2009, 5:57 pm

DJ-B

Rookie Player of the Year

Joined: April 5th, 2007, 5:51 pmPosts: 2327

Here is where my Berry love comes from.

Based on a few things i've read, he is a Safety and not a CB because he is bigger than most CBs. But supposedly he has CB Speed, Cornerbacks Instincts but Safety Size (Not a Hulk Safety). That is why they are saying his natural fit in the NFL may be at CB instead of safety, not as a fill in, but because it will fit his size/skillset better.

Of course the flipside is that it will take time to be at max skilla s a CB since he has been playing S at college, meaning he might not propvide an immediate lift to the Worse CB corps of all time. Meaning it isnt really a wise decision unless the options are limited.

I dont see us winning another game, so I think we pick 4th at the lowest. At 4th, 1 of the 2 big DTs should still be around, and I would choose them.

November 25th, 2009, 11:51 pm

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10066Location: Where ever I'm at now

I agree with the contention that when we pick, regardless of need, we MUST take a player that there is 100% faith in his ability to be an outstanding contributor immediately. Suh and McCoy, I believe would definitely fit that bill. I am not sold on Okung, and I don't want to see the Lions put faith in a player that rises meteorically based on the Combines and work outs, like Jason Smith did. You see where it got the Rams. And in the meanwhile Michael Oher fell, and the Ravens are beyond happy that he did.

Not every player that begins the college season considered to be a great prospect ends up the season that way. Not every player who emerges during their final college season and shoots up draft charts ends up being a bust in the NFL. But when you have players who begin the season as Top 50 players, and they do nothing but justify their lofty status, you need to keep those players high on your draft list and ignore some of the other rubbish that comes out. Really good work out numbers should be a nice to have, not a need to have.

Can they play the game, will they play the game, and will they bust their butt to be the best in the game. If the answers are yes, yes, yes.....pick that guy.

November 26th, 2009, 12:08 am

sweetd20

Rookie Player of the Year

Joined: October 13th, 2005, 9:03 amPosts: 2399

If Suh is gone when the Lions pick Berry would be my choice simply because he can come up with the game changing INTs that the Lions are lacking. If Suh wasn't so impressive I'd pass on him as well, because at this point the DTs have looked pretty good this season. They've done a good job of clogging the middle unfortunately the DEs and LBs haven't been able to stop the RBs from breaking containment. That said Suh has too much potential to pass over if available. If they miss on Suh it might not be a huge loss though because guys like Ordick, Williams, Joseph or Price (if the two of them enter the draft) are pretty impressive DTs.

At this point I don't see a huge gap between the top LTs (seniors and juniors) to justify a top 5-10 pick on one of them. Depending on how many JRs come out at any position I hope they can get as many 2nd-4th round picks that they can get their hands on. So if Suh is gone and they can't get out of their pick I'd be happy with Berry but would prefer a drop back to get a DE (Romeus or Morgan if they enter the draft) or McClain to play MLB.

November 26th, 2009, 10:12 am

Stallion

Play by Play Announcer - Al Michaels

Joined: October 15th, 2005, 12:45 pmPosts: 1834

It seemed evident to me that the lions need some DL help. Rodgers had all day to make his throws today.

_________________2011 Adopted Lion: Rob Sims/Looking for a side job at I.H.O.P because he can't stop making pancakes.

November 26th, 2009, 5:31 pm

wjb21ndtown

Stallion wrote:

It seemed evident to me that the lions need some DL help. Rodgers had all day to make his throws today.

Is there a DE you take at #4ish? And is there any other DLman worthy of a top 5 pick, other than Suh? Are the players that will be available in the top of the 2nd round that much different from the DLman available at the top of the draft?

Those are the issues you have to deal with if you think that DL has to be the pick... Personally I think it's Suh or bust for DL if we can't get out of the top 5.

November 27th, 2009, 11:06 am

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10066Location: Where ever I'm at now

Stallion wrote:

It seemed evident to me that the lions need some DL help. Rodgers had all day to make his throws today.

Yes, I agree we need someone to rush the passer. However, many times I saw Rodgers throwing on three step drops, and his guys were already wide open. Our cornerbacks suck. And even if we get a bonafide pass rushing terror, it will do little good if the secondary isn't improved. Rodgers got flushed out of the pocket a couple times....he still was able to throw the ball down field. If you go back and look at the game, watch how many times he was throwing the ball almost immediately upon setting his feet.

The secondary is supposed to maintain their coverage for four seconds, minimum. Our secondary can't even cover for half that time. We got a bunch of scrubs, and it shows. The last time the Lions used a "day one" pick on a corner was in 2005 (Stanley Wilson), and he was a monumental third round bust. The last time they took a corner in a higher round was in 1998, when they took yet another monumental bust (Terry Fair) first overall.

This team has many needs. I agree that a pass rusher is high in priority. But they have to support a pick like that by getting some quality cover corners.

November 27th, 2009, 11:36 am

kdsberman

Team MVP

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pmPosts: 3422Location: Saginaw, MI

wjb21ndtown wrote:

Stallion wrote:

It seemed evident to me that the lions need some DL help. Rodgers had all day to make his throws today.

Is there a DE you take at #4ish? And is there any other DLman worthy of a top 5 pick, other than Suh? Are the players that will be available in the top of the 2nd round that much different from the DLman available at the top of the draft?

Those are the issues you have to deal with if you think that DL has to be the pick... Personally I think it's Suh or bust for DL if we can't get out of the top 5.

I agree with you...
At first, i agree when talking about D-line, but now, im thinking every position.

Its pretty much if we cant get Suh, our best bet is to trade down...try and get Berry/Mays, maybe McClain, ..etc.

I'm still going to say DE Derrick Morgan. Most mock drafts now have him in the middle of the first round, but I've seen him as high as #7. He's going to keep rising and should be a consensus top ten pick by the time the draft rolls around. If you haven't seen him yet, Georgia Tech play Georgia at 8 PM tommorrow. Check him out and you'll see what I've been seeing for the past couple of months.

_________________

November 27th, 2009, 12:14 pm

wjb21ndtown

slybri19 wrote:

I'm still going to say DE Derrick Morgan. Most mock drafts now have him in the middle of the first round, but I've seen him as high as #7. He's going to keep rising and should be a consensus top ten pick by the time the draft rolls around. If you haven't seen him yet, Georgia Tech play Georgia at 8 PM tommorrow. Check him out and you'll see what I've been seeing for the past couple of months.

Would you take him at #2 if that's where we end up picking?

November 27th, 2009, 12:19 pm

Stallion

Play by Play Announcer - Al Michaels

Joined: October 15th, 2005, 12:45 pmPosts: 1834

m2karateman wrote:

Stallion wrote:

It seemed evident to me that the lions need some DL help. Rodgers had all day to make his throws today.

Yes, I agree we need someone to rush the passer. However, many times I saw Rodgers throwing on three step drops, and his guys were already wide open. Our cornerbacks suck. And even if we get a bonafide pass rushing terror, it will do little good if the secondary isn't improved. Rodgers got flushed out of the pocket a couple times....he still was able to throw the ball down field. If you go back and look at the game, watch how many times he was throwing the ball almost immediately upon setting his feet.

The secondary is supposed to maintain their coverage for four seconds, minimum. Our secondary can't even cover for half that time. We got a bunch of scrubs, and it shows. The last time the Lions used a "day one" pick on a corner was in 2005 (Stanley Wilson), and he was a monumental third round bust. The last time they took a corner in a higher round was in 1998, when they took yet another monumental bust (Terry Fair) first overall.

This team has many needs. I agree that a pass rusher is high in priority. But they have to support a pick like that by getting some quality cover corners.

The secondary has been horrible no doubt about it. However it seemed to me for every play we pushed Rodgers out of the pocket there was a play were Rogders seemed to have 10 seconds to throw without any sign of pressure....or maybve its becuase those plays just seemed more payfully obvious. That being said if they draft secondary prior to DL I wouldn't ind if they are taking the better defender.

At DT Suh and McCoy are both worthy of top 3 picks. At DE I could see Derrick Morgan, Everson Griffen, Greg Hardy, Carlos Dunlap(doesn't deserve consideration) possibly being considered.

_________________2011 Adopted Lion: Rob Sims/Looking for a side job at I.H.O.P because he can't stop making pancakes.

I'm still going to say DE Derrick Morgan. Most mock drafts now have him in the middle of the first round, but I've seen him as high as #7. He's going to keep rising and should be a consensus top ten pick by the time the draft rolls around. If you haven't seen him yet, Georgia Tech play Georgia at 8 PM tommorrow. Check him out and you'll see what I've been seeing for the past couple of months.

Would you take him at #2 if that's where we end up picking?

That's a good question. Obviously, I'm not a scout or anything, but Morgan is the 2nd best defensive player I've seen in college this year behind Suh. I know that McCoy, Berry, Mays, and Dunlap get all the hype, but I like Morgan better than any of them. I guess it all depends upon how he grades out.

_________________

November 27th, 2009, 2:29 pm

kdsberman

Team MVP

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pmPosts: 3422Location: Saginaw, MI

What are Morgans measurements by the way?

Personally, im not in the mood for another Cliff Avril size DE if thats how big he is.

Also, what does everyone think of Rolando McClain if we dont re-sign Foote?

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10066Location: Where ever I'm at now

Stallion wrote:

m2karateman wrote:

Stallion wrote:

It seemed evident to me that the lions need some DL help. Rodgers had all day to make his throws today.

Yes, I agree we need someone to rush the passer. However, many times I saw Rodgers throwing on three step drops, and his guys were already wide open. Our cornerbacks suck. And even if we get a bonafide pass rushing terror, it will do little good if the secondary isn't improved. Rodgers got flushed out of the pocket a couple times....he still was able to throw the ball down field. If you go back and look at the game, watch how many times he was throwing the ball almost immediately upon setting his feet.

The secondary is supposed to maintain their coverage for four seconds, minimum. Our secondary can't even cover for half that time. We got a bunch of scrubs, and it shows. The last time the Lions used a "day one" pick on a corner was in 2005 (Stanley Wilson), and he was a monumental third round bust. The last time they took a corner in a higher round was in 1998, when they took yet another monumental bust (Terry Fair) first overall.

This team has many needs. I agree that a pass rusher is high in priority. But they have to support a pick like that by getting some quality cover corners.

The secondary has been horrible no doubt about it. However it seemed to me for every play we pushed Rodgers out of the pocket there was a play were Rogders seemed to have 10 seconds to throw without any sign of pressure....or maybve its becuase those plays just seemed more payfully obvious. That being said if they draft secondary prior to DL I wouldn't ind if they are taking the better defender.

At DT Suh and McCoy are both worthy of top 3 picks. At DE I could see Derrick Morgan, Everson Griffen, Greg Hardy, Carlos Dunlap(doesn't deserve consideration) possibly being considered.

Yes, there have been times where our four man rush, or even with an additional blitzer, they have been incapable of getting to the QB. There were times during the game yesterday that the Lions were only rushing three and holding back a DL to cover the flat zones. Why? I wish I knew. Rushing three will never work in Detroit, particularly with a poor secondary.

There is no cornerback that I've seen at this stage that is worthy of a top ten pick. As such, I see the Lions going with DL, which is perfectly fine by me. However, good CBs can be had in round two and three, if Mayhew does his research, listens to the scouts and doesn't get sucked in by over the top workout numbers. Stanley Wilson had great speed. But he had stiff hips and couldn't cover a twin bed if he were a king sized comforter.

The trade down is ALWAYS seen as the best option, but I don't see it happening for the Lions unless some team gets very desperate to nab that last piece of the puzzle.