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Sheikh Mohammad Al- Arefe, a recent visitor to Britain, once gave a fatwa on his television show declaring that young girls should not dress immodestly in front of their fathers.

In fact, they should not be alone in their father’s company, citing the fact that fathers are men too, with sexual drives and needs, which places them as victims in the realm of their daughters’ beauty.

Um Sara mentioned that someone is sexually harassing her daughter and there's no doubt that this is a type of sexual perversion, we seek refuge in God, and it's a type of obscenity. But the girl is also obliged not to wear scandalous cllothes in front of their dads. Oh, people, some girls are youthful and have beautiful figures, and decide to wear tight clothing, or tight trousers, and short tops and wear them in front of their fathers. She needs to realise that her father is also a youth! He may feel sexually attracted to his daughter, we seek refuge in God, and when he shakes her hand or kisses her or hugs her, the devil might push him to act upon his desires. So I urge this girl and other girls, if they are young, not to wear bad clothes in front of her father, or reveal her chest or anything like that, just because he's her father, fact is that father is still a man. So she should not wear tight clothes. The other issue is, she should not be alone with her father. They should not sit alone in a room. She must make sure her mother is present or her siblings are present, until God makes things easier for her and she gets married.

Al Arefe has articulated an apologia for incestuous paedophilia, and victim blamed a girl as being culpable for being raped by her father. He has pronounced that there are many men who are weak when it comes to the flesh of their own daughters or granddaughters. The ‘reasoning’ of Al Arefe is that men are not permitted physical proximity to any females other than their wives, and so these men are victims of either intentional or unintentional seduction by their daughters.

Sheikh Abdulla Daoud, another prominent Islamic cleric, recently declared a fatwa urging mothers to veil the faces of their newborn girls to protect them from sexual molestation. He was later chastised for his claims by the Saudi authorities for making such denigrating comments in the name of Islam. As denigrating as they may be, they reveal a deep seated perversion that cannot be tamed by Islamic chastity. What distinguishes these cases from the phenomenon of Catholic paedophile priests is that in Islamic dogma, these men are seen as the victims. A girl is a sexual creature. Hence it is her responsibility to spare men around her the agony of desire for if she does not, she will ultimately be responsible for her own molestation. The daughter is a sexual temptress in front of her father. The rapist is the victim of her wiles.

Sheikh Fayhan al-Ghamdi, a renowned Islamic scholar and television preacher in Saudi Arabia killed his 5 year old daughter earlier this year after a series of systematic torture and rape. He claims his fear that she had lost her virginity combined with her inability to recite full verses from the Quran drove him to his brutal actions. The Saudi authorities released him with a $50,000 fine.

To be clear, I am not claiming that Islam is the only patriarchy that inflicts its flock with these perversions, however, coming from an Islamic background I can only speak of what I know.

Nor am I saying that it does not exist in other religions.

However, what these religions do have in common is the patriarchal structure of their dogma. It is also wrong to assume that patriarchy does not exist outside religion.

The patriarchal father figure is not a symptom of religion, rather, he is the precursor.

In 2008, we all heard of Josef Fritzl, the man who imprisoned his daughter in a dungeon beneath his home for 24 years and fathered her seven children. He later revealed that he was driven to imprisoning her because she was a rebellious teenager and he feared she’d become sexually active. As the patriarchal father figure, he felt obliged to protect her from the dangerous world and her growing independence.

Her mother, living in the residence above the dungeon, had no idea what was happening beneath her feet. Her own subjugation did not allow her to question him as he was building the many extensions to the home.

One can only imagine the patriarchal beast that was Fritzl. Reports paint a portrait of a strict man, set in his ways, who did not think twice about using corporal punishment. A brutal, domineering father who drove his wife and his children to total submission.

Male homosexuality in Islam is forbidden explicitly in the Quran and Hadeeth whereas lesbianism has not had such mention. Indeed, in patriarchal societies men, too, are victims. In religious contexts, sex is a method of reproduction and the notions of love and intimacy are irrelevant. Sex is a tool for overpowering women.

If a Muslim woman rejects the sexual advances of her husband ‘the angels curse her until dawn’ (narrated by Abu Huraira, Sahih Muslim). A Muslim man is permitted to beat his wife if she refuses to sleep with him. When sex is seen in such aggressive terms, it is easy to understand why male homosexual behaviour is a threat to a patriarchal structure. A gay man jeopardises the iron structures that have been cultivated by patriarchy by allowing himself to be overpowered by a tool used strictly to tame the female: sex. Hence why lesbianism, though deemed illegal in Islam, has not been the subject of systemised witch hunts and condemnations.

It is of no surprise that very few studies that show the link between personality disorders in patriarchal societies and sexual perversions come to light.

To claim a system is a disease makes all of those living under it sick people.

Patriarchal families are strong believers in keeping household matters private. It is better to quietly suffer than bring shame upon the family. And often the victims believe that the repercussions of speaking out are just not worth the trouble.

However, the great silence that the structure of religious patriarchy rests on is gradually being broken.

Voices are trickling out every day and patriarchy’s God-given right to sexual perversion is finally being questioned. Though Islamic patriarchy acknowledges these perverted acts, they assert that the only way to tackle it is by hiding the female. Today they want newborn girls to veil their faces and young girls to cover up in the presence of their fathers.

It seems that a girl’s mere existence is a threat to patriarchy. And that in this universe of divine patriarchy, a female is defined by her eternal guilt, a shameful criminal responsible for her own violation and victimhood.

Exposing and opposing the injustice of this guilt and blame will bring down the house of Islamic patriarchy. The voice of a woman in the face of the male proxies of a misogynistic god is the most powerful sound there can be.

ibn Bilal

But the girl is also obliged not to wear scandalous cllothes in front of their dads. Oh, people, some girls are youthful and have beautiful figures, and decide to wear tight clothing, or tight trousers, and short tops and wear them in front of their fathers. She needs to realise that her father is also a youth! He may feel sexually attracted to his daughter, we seek refuge in God, and when he shakes her hand or kisses her or hugs her, the devil might push him to act upon his desires. So I urge this girl and other girls, if they are young, not to wear bad clothes in front of her father, or reveal her chest or anything like that, just because he's her father, fact is that father is still a man. So she should not wear tight clothes. The other issue is, she should not be alone with her father. They should not sit alone in a room. She must make sure her mother is present or her siblings are present, until God makes things easier for her and she gets married.

Cheetah

Can you imagine if a western feminist wrote that paragraph above about fathers and daughters? She would be (rightly) excoriated as an extreme man hater. It just confirms my suspicion that behind the typical misogynist often lies a deep well of suspicion and hatred towards their own sex too.

Cheetah

I'm not sure I would describe Saudi Arabia - a society where each man is permitted four wives who are not allowed to refuse him sex - as a society where male (hetero)sexuality is repressed to an extreme.

Nikolaj

In a society where sexuality is suppressed to an extreme sexual perversion becomes inevitable.

That is one thing. Another thing is that having a scripture/religion/culture telling you that these urges are perfectly halal and even encouraged to show women who is the boss doesn't really help. After all, the victim - even an infant! - is to blame!

If we make the assumption that pedophile and/or incestious urges are somewhat evenly distributed among Homo Sapiens (eg. all humanoids on this rock, including Bushmen and aboriginal Australians), and that most people with such urges are able to ignore/mitigate them, having been given the "IT'S TOTALLY OK TO GO FORWARD ON THOSE URGES - IT IS THE VICTIM'S FAULT AFTER ALL" written all over the place in their own community will not exactly protect the potential victims. Neither will a niqab on a baby girl.

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ibn Bilal

Sheikh Mohammad Al- Arefe, a recent visitor to Britain, once gave a fatwa on his television show declaring that young girls should not dress immodestly in front of their fathers.

In fact, they should not be alone in their father’s company, citing the fact that fathers are men too, with sexual drives and needs

What this man has said is absolutely disgusting. It has literally left me feeling physically repulsed. The way that he immediately goes into bashing the victim of this crime and admonishing little girls for their attire is beyond disturbing. The way that he nonchalantly suggests that a father might be “enticed” by his daughter because they too are “youths” is unfathomably horrible and nauseating.

While the moron did suggest that girls should not wear “bad clothes” in front of their fathers, I will say for the sake of transparency that I did not get from the video in Arabic that he was advising that no daughters should ever be left with their fathers. The pronoun he used seemed only to refer to the father in question as opposed to fathers in general. That was clear to me from listening to it. This makes nothing this scum said any better, but it is always good to know exactly what was said.

It is sick that people listen to freaks like this and think they have sound arguments. This is really one of the worst things I have heard these sickos say.

Nikolaj

My nieces (3 yo +/-) are running around in the nude because that is their thing. And nobody gives a shit. That is what kids do. Not even their weird never-do-good-will-always-stay-single-uncle (me) stop them nor my brothers and sister-in-laws from letting the kids enjoy live at their own pace. They will eventually discover "modesty" (they kind of already have by now).

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Luthiel

This article is too short for its own good; it misses the mark by focusing too much on the symptoms rather than the cause. These disgusting stories need to be exposed, for sure, but more important are the less obvious and more insidious aspects of Islam (and patriarchy in general) that lead to them in the first place: victim blaming and women as property.

Take this story, for instance:

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Sheikh Abdulla Daoud, another prominent Islamic cleric, recently declared a fatwa urging mothers to veil the faces of their newborn girls to protect them from sexual molestation. He was later chastised for his claims by the Saudi authorities for making such denigrating comments in the name of Islam. As denigrating as they may be, they reveal a deep seated perversion that cannot be tamed by Islamic chastity. What distinguishes these cases from the phenomenon of Catholic paedophile priests is that in Islamic dogma, these men are seen as the victims. A girl is a sexual creature. Hence it is her responsibility to spare men around her the agony of desire for if she does not, she will ultimately be responsible for her own molestation. The daughter is a sexual temptress in front of her father. The rapist is the victim of her wiles.

This is a classic case of victim blaming, and the author almost gets it. However, there is nothing in Islam that directly validates the idea of incestuous pedophilia, that "the daughter is a sexual temptress in front of her father." In fact, the Qur'an quite clearly and explicitly states the opposite: the father/daughter relationship is one of many considered to be mahram.

So why does it matter? It's easy to distance yourself from stories of pedophiles, believing the problem does not apply to you. But if you ask what the victim was wearing, or if you think your honor is at risk due to the (actual or alleged) sexual activities of a female family member, then you will find yourself somewhere on the same spectrum of sexual perversion that leads to the extreme examples cited in the article. This can be seen plainly by contrasting the above story with the one following it. In the case of Daoud, Saudi authorities "chastised [him]... for making such denigrating comments in the name of Islam." Yet in the case of al-Ghamdi, not only a much worse representation of Islam and also a horrifying crime, "Saudi authorities released him with a $50,000 fine." Daoud's statement blatantly implied that infant girls could arouse their fathers, an obvious sexual perversion and quick to be shunned. Al-Ghamdi's case, in contrast, was treated as one of property (according to the many articles covering the story online, Saudi law prevents men from being executed for killing their children or wives), and thus much higher on the spectrum.

The author goes on to claim "sex is a tool for overpowering women." This is again an instance of putting the symptom before the cause: using sex to control women is a byproduct of viewing women as property. This extends to the interesting perspective on homosexuality, which I would change as follows:

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it is easy to understand why male homosexual behaviour is a threat to a patriarchal structure. A gay man jeopardises the iron structures that have been cultivated by patriarchy by allowing himself to be overpowered by a tool used strictly to tame the female: sex. become the property of another man. Hence why lesbianism, though deemed illegal in Islam, has not been the subject of systemised witch hunts and condemnations.

I absolutely agree with the author's conclusion that the Islamic view of women is what allows sexual perversion to breed, and we need to break the silence that keeps it intact. I just think we need to know what it is we are speaking out against.

I hear the rains, I see the fire, I feel the flame. It doesn't change the faces I want to blame for the shame I'm feeling.But the winds of change will blow again. And we're the lucky ones who travel on towards the sun.

Can you hear it calling you?

billy

However, there is nothing in Islam that directly validates the idea of incestuous pedophilia, that "the daughter is a sexual temptress in front of her father." In fact, the Qur'an quite clearly and explicitly states the opposite: the father/daughter relationship is one of many considered to be mahram.

Perhaps if you include Islam in a sense of a religious culture, the institutions, taboos, and oppressive silences relating to shame / honour, and structures upheld by the Quran / Scripture / tradition that refer back to text and tradition, the practise of these systems and structures, it makes sense. That the super-structure of Islam, which emboldens oppressive misogyny, keeps things silent, insists that dysfunction not be addressed, for fear of breaking taboos of male infallibility in the family, and that overrides everything else. And hence, in this darkness, abuse goes on, and the victim is blamed. The superstructure of Islam is so totally silencing and oppressive.

Luthiel

I will say for the sake of transparency that I did not get from the video in Arabic that he was advising that no daughters should ever be left with their fathers. The pronoun he used seemed only to refer to the father in question as opposed to fathers in general. That was clear to me from listening to it.

In that case, his advice in and of itself, that the girl should not be alone with her father, is correct. However, he's looking at it from the wrong angle. It's not the girl who shouldn't be alone with her father, it's the father who shouldn't be alone with ANY children. And it's not the girl who should make sure her mother or siblings are present around him, but the state and other adults involved who should make sure she is not left alone with him.

That said,

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This makes nothing this scum said any better

I hear the rains, I see the fire, I feel the flame. It doesn't change the faces I want to blame for the shame I'm feeling.But the winds of change will blow again. And we're the lucky ones who travel on towards the sun.

Luthiel

Billy, that was exactly my point. It's useless to speak out against incestuous pedophilia in Islam, because it's not there. It's the rest of the system that quietly creates this symptom.

I hear the rains, I see the fire, I feel the flame. It doesn't change the faces I want to blame for the shame I'm feeling.But the winds of change will blow again. And we're the lucky ones who travel on towards the sun.

Can you hear it calling you?

billy

Don't the superstructures of patriarchy that enable this have their foundations in the notion of infallibility and taboo that Islam insists on? I think we can say that Islam is what grows out of the basics, not just the basics. If you see what I mean.

Luthiel

Absolutely, and that's the problem. But you can't attribute statements like "the daughter is a sexual temptress in front of her father" to Islam. Any Muslim would disregard that statement because it is simply not true, and in fact the opposite is plainly evident in the Qur'an. But the more subtle aspects of victim blaming and viewing women as property, which Islam encourages and indeed builds its social structure around, are the poison that allows the perverted mind of a sheikh to come to the conclusion that infants must be veiled in front of their fathers.

I hear the rains, I see the fire, I feel the flame. It doesn't change the faces I want to blame for the shame I'm feeling.But the winds of change will blow again. And we're the lucky ones who travel on towards the sun.

Can you hear it calling you?

ibn Bilal

I agree with you on this, Luthiel. In fact, using the quran itself it is quite easy to dismiss even this moron's suggestion that daughters should mind how they dress in front of their fathers. The infamous verse of veiling includes the father along with the husband in regards to the men to whom a woman is allowed to display her beauty. The literature of the ahadith also portrays a different viewpoint from the cleric's when we consider Muhammad's interactions with his daughters.

What is at fault here is the general culture of sexism and misogyny that Islam promotes in a number of ways.

Further, the obsession with sexual "purity" and the absurd rules of gender segregation, even among family members, serve to alienate males and females from each other, preventing them from developing normal, human relationships.

Among the things that I regret the most is passing on a fatwa from a Saudi cleric regarding a woman and her husband's illegitimate 9 year old son.

As the son was born out of wedlock and before the father had embraced Islam, the cleric ruled that he could not be considered the husband's son and could not be left alone with the woman or view her unveiled. This resulted in a situation in which the boy, who could have gained a loving relationship with his new stepmother, was instead ostracized by the family and forced to spend all of his time in a separate room. The woman was in turn forced to veil herself in her own home whenever the boy needed to come out.

All of this was in the name of keeping a 9 year old from having sex with his 30-something year old step mom. Such is the culture of absurdity around gender that Islam promotes.

billy

Absolutely, and that's the problem. But you can't attribute statements like "the daughter is a sexual temptress in front of her father" to Islam. Any Muslim would disregard that statement because it is simply not true, and in fact the opposite is plainly evident in the Qur'an. But the more subtle aspects of victim blaming and viewing women as property, which Islam encourages and indeed builds its social structure around, are the poison that allows the perverted mind of a sheikh to come to the conclusion that infants must be veiled in front of their fathers.

I get what you're saying. I think Mirna is situating this phrase in the general context, riffing off al Arefe's 'reasoning'. At least that is how I read it.

Also a couple of sentences in this piece knocked me out:

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The patriarchal father figure is not a symptom of religion, rather, he is the precursor.

Quote

To claim a system is a disease makes all of those living under it sick people.

Luthiel

Oh yes, I thought her evaluations were insightful and the topic is very important. It just needs to be twice as long so she can delve into the root problems as well.

I hear the rains, I see the fire, I feel the flame. It doesn't change the faces I want to blame for the shame I'm feeling.But the winds of change will blow again. And we're the lucky ones who travel on towards the sun.

Can you hear it calling you?

@CEMB_Forum

Mirna contacted us and just wants to point out that al Arefe says "I advise this girl and others" ( ادعوا مثل هذه البنت وغيرها ) at around 39 seconds, so he does seem to expand his advice not just to this particular situation, but as a general advice to other girls.

ibn Bilal

Mirna contacted us and just wants to point out that al Arefe says "I advise this girl and others" ( ادعوا مثل هذه البنت وغيرها ) at around 39 seconds, so he does seem to expand his advice not just to this particular situation, but as a general advice to other girls.

Right. That is when he was talking about not wearing the tight clothes. When he goes on to talk about not leaving her alone with her dad, it's clear he was talking specifically about this girl.