Looks like the Crimson Death formation had a decent damage out-put but they still seem pretty fragile.

IMO, I think you still (1) get the cover save from the Crimson Death formation against things that ignore jink saves as well as (2) get to re-roll that cover save when you jink against things that normally ignore jink saves.

Specifically, if you jink, you get a 4+ cover save from that special rule. Crimson Death is not rolling nor re-rolling a cover save from the jink rule so weapons that ignore or prevent a model from taking Jink saves don’t affect the Crimson Death formation.

Therefore, the only way Crimson Death cannot get their re-roll is if something specifically says that a target cannot Jink at all, not simply that a model cannot make a Jink save or that the weapon ignores Jink saves.

The guns ignore Jink SAVES IIRC and the formation does not take any Jink saves for the guns to ignore. The formation just gets a bonus to existing saves by Jinking, which is a completely different mechanic.

Kartr, by your logic, you then cannot go to ground against a weapon that ignores cover. However, you can still go to ground against something that ignores cover… You just don’t get to benefit from any cover save when you do. Therefore, you obviously get no benefit for going to ground against anything that Ignores cover since all going to ground does is improve your cover save which is subsequently being ignored.

Furthermore, not being able to take a Jink save is NOT the same thing as not being able to Jink at all. You are still allowed to Jink, you just don’t benefit from the 4+ cover save that the Jink rule provides.

Therefore, if you Jink against the Twin-linked Accelerator Autocannon, you wouldn’t benefit from the 4+ cover save from the Jink rule and then you still have to suffer from the Snap Shots penalty if you survived. Obviously, not a smart choice but still a choice you have!

So to reiterate, does the weapon say you cannot Jink? No, it does not say you cannot Jink, therefore you can still Jink. The rule only says you cannot take a Jink save, something that the Crimson Hunter formation is not doing.

Except the Re-roll is essentially you taking a second save, a Jink save, after your cover save failed.

If you’re right then there’s no point in ever shooting a Sicaran at the Crimson Hunter formation. It also means you need way more firepower to bring them down than is feasible in a list without crazy flying dakka like a Fire Raptor.

Technically it is. $120 model versus $195 in models and your tank is still able to take out those flyers (far from useless) and it is still good at taking out other things like jetbikes and stuff… So don’t need to be so negative, it’s still a very solid tank!

It’s pretty much my main AA and with the re-rolls its un-likely to bring down a flyer the one turn it gets to shoot it. Twin-linked = 5-6 hits, Tank Hunters vs AV10 = 5-6 glance/pen, 4+ cover saves 3, re-roll saves 2, so 1 glance/pen and it won’t explode because AP4. Its useless against the Crimson Hunter formation. My Mortis-Dreadnought has twin-linked Las Cannons so 2 hits 2 pens save one, re-roll save the second one. I am now going to have to find the points to either get a Fire Raptor or a pair of Storm Talons and try and kill them with a ton of S6 flying shooting.

Really interested in seeing how the composite detachment works out. Originally I thought it looked ridiculously good, but the taxes are pretty big; it feels so unwieldy trying to put a list together using it.

I’ll figure it out, because I’m really thinking that I should trade my Thunderfire Cannon and Librarian for a Whirlwind Scorpious and Master of the Forge on a Bike. S8 Ap3 is better against Eldar Jetbikes than S5 Ap6 Ignores Cover.

I really like Hawks. The utility of a good anti-infantry gun combined with Haywire in addition to excellent mobility and the free blast is a great setup. 2×5 Warp Spyders and 1×6 Swooping Hawks is a pretty good way to take the Aspect Host, I think.