The Free60 Project wrote:On Tuesday, Microsoft has released an Xbox 360 software update that overwrites the first stage bootloader of the system. Although there have been numerous software updates for Microsoft's gaming console in the past, this is the first one to overwrite the vital boot block. Any failure while updating this will break the Xbox 360 beyond repair. Statistics from other systems have shown that about one in a thousand bootloader updates goes wrong, and unless Microsoft has a novel solution to this problem, this puts tens of thousands of Xboxes at risk.

M$'s new update bricked my XBOX (about 3 months old) and there are hundreds of posts of the same at the XBOX site's forums.

Also, people with units out of warranty are getting screwed too since M$ is telling people that they won't fix them (well, they will, but for $100).

What sucks is that I guarantee that the next game I buy will force me to do the update.

This is why building systems that rely on updates has always been a bad idea, for several generations (through the PS/N64 generation) gaming was just fine without updates, how bout we go back to those days instead of turning these things into bricks.

Honestly, the reason I have always been a console gamer is reliability and knowing the game I buy will work, that certainty is all but gone now.

Got my Xbox back yesterday from a friend(loaned it to him for ~5mos. while recovering from a broken leg.)While he had it, it was never "online" I updated it when I got home yesterday..no issues. Got Madden10 today, hope all is well when I get home!! hehe

warner28 wrote:What sucks is that I guarantee that the next game I buy will force me to do the update.

This is why building systems that rely on updates has always been a bad idea, for several generations (through the PS/N64 generation) gaming was just fine without updates, how bout we go back to those days instead of turning these things into bricks.

Honestly, the reason I have always been a console gamer is reliability and knowing the game I buy will work, that certainty is all but gone now.

This has to be one of silliest posts I have ever read about a video game console. Updating video games and the system, is hands down the BEST thing that ever happened to console gaming. Having the ability to add game content, fix bugs/glitches, and update pertinent info (rex: rosters for madden), is critical in this day and age, and without those features NO console has a chance in hell in selling.

Besides plugging your xbox into the internet is your choice, no one tells you have to do it.

cboom wrote:Wilson is the worst QB I have seen as a Hawks fan. And I have been around long enough to see them all.

warner28 wrote:Honestly, the reason I have always been a console gamer is reliability and knowing the game I buy will work, that certainty is all but gone now.

I take you never had a console with cartridge games where you constantly had to blow the dust out of the cartridge and the console. Even when you got it to work, you very rarely got through the game without it freezing up on you. I had this problem with the NES, Genesis, SNES, and even the N64.

Not sure why they would have to update the bootloader, but yeah if it is corrupted the processor cannot be setup to run out of RAM or even flash, since the early steps for setting up the core is performed by the bootloader. They must have to put new security algorithms in the bootloader, such as a Secure Boot algorithm, though these need special hardware for checksumming the kernel before attempting to run it.

If they were really concerned about 0% failure of this type of upgrade due to power failure or corruption, there should have been a failsafe built into the design or a minimal bootstrap that could allow a recovery technique for the extreme cash of total system failure. Oh well, guess that would have added too much cost to the unit.

In the field upgrades is a very tough nut to crack but seems there should be a little more flexibility when a device is hosed while following suggested methods for upgrading it. Or else they should have a upgrade center for these things. I am sure there is probably a JTAG device that would allow one to update the flash but would require a tech to open up the device and maybe they removed the JTAG connector prior to shipping? Would love to look inside one of these busted ones just to see what the motherboard looks like.

drdiags wrote: Would love to look inside one of these busted ones just to see what the motherboard looks like.

I have one. Live in Seattle?I'm pretty sure the inner working of these things are pretty well known though. Seems like you're interested in the motherboard however?

-SH

Yeah, I was wanting to put eyes on the layout. Thanks to Rocketman, was able to see that. Thought I saw the 16-pin layout of where the JTAG pins could be inserted, but would need a schematic along with specs to figure out the processor type and appropriate JTAG tool. Just some musings of an idle mind.

warner28 wrote:Honestly, the reason I have always been a console gamer is reliability and knowing the game I buy will work, that certainty is all but gone now.

I take you never had a console with cartridge games where you constantly had to blow the dust out of the cartridge and the console. Even when you got it to work, you very rarely got through the game without it freezing up on you. I had this problem with the NES, Genesis, SNES, and even the N64.

You'd be wrong, still own everyone of those consoles and an Atari 2600, all still work perfectly, PS1 on the otherhand is a brick, on my third 360.

Someone said I was stupid to have my opinion, if it's stupid to want your system to work, I'll be stupid. To the "it's your choice to go online", yeah but GAMES force the update whether you are online or not.

warner28 wrote:Honestly, the reason I have always been a console gamer is reliability and knowing the game I buy will work, that certainty is all but gone now.

I take you never had a console with cartridge games where you constantly had to blow the dust out of the cartridge and the console. Even when you got it to work, you very rarely got through the game without it freezing up on you. I had this problem with the NES, Genesis, SNES, and even the N64.

You'd be wrong, still own everyone of those consoles and an Atari 2600, all still work perfectly, PS1 on the otherhand is a brick, on my third 360.

Someone said I was stupid to have my opinion, if it's stupid to want your system to work, I'll be stupid. To the "it's your choice to go online", yeah but GAMES force the update whether you are online or not.

You were lucky then.

Last edited by Seanhawk on Sat Aug 15, 2009 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Well, it looks like the update worked fine for everyone here that has applied it (as I'm the only one that said anything about it having issues). Fortunately, I have an exchange warranty. Unfortunately, I have a crap ton of DLC (XBLA games and Rockband/Guitar Hero songs, among other things) to re-download!

FPD wrote:Well, it looks like the update worked fine for everyone here that has applied it (as I'm the only one that said anything about it having issues). Fortunately, I have an exchange warranty. Unfortunately, I have a crap ton of DLC (XBLA games and Rockband/Guitar Hero songs, among other things) to re-download!

Can you swap HDDs on the exchange warranty? That's where the downloads and game statistics are.

BTW, my update went fine ... mine is only a 360 from the original release.

When and how often does it freeze up? Does it ever resume, or are you allowed to exit to the dashboard at all? Just curious... that's too bad though, hopefully it's just coincidental and it'll start working soon for ya.

Ahhhh - I just got mine swapped out at Costco and it's the new 12.5 amp 65nm Jasper chip! And to boot, I also bought a Sony KDL-40XBR9 40" LCD HDTV at Best Buy. And OMFG what a picture via HDMI! I'm soooooo giddy!

FPD wrote:Well, it looks like the update worked fine for everyone here that has applied it (as I'm the only one that said anything about it having issues). Fortunately, I have an exchange warranty. Unfortunately, I have a crap ton of DLC (XBLA games and Rockband/Guitar Hero songs, among other things) to re-download!

Can you swap HDDs on the exchange warranty? That's where the downloads and game statistics are.

BTW, my update went fine ... mine is only a 360 from the original release.

Yeah, when you send the xbox back, take out the hardrive first! The'll send you back one with a new HD! Ask me how I know ;-)

Well, my 4th 360 finally succumbed to the Red Ring of Death. This one lasted almost a year, though, so I guessthat is saying something.

You definitely have to take all of your accessories off of your old one before sending it in. Most likely, you'll get a refurbished model. When all of this RROD stuff started, it was a major pain to have it fixed and getyour downloaded content back. Now, MS updates your console id so that when you plug in your old HDD, yourcontent is already fully usable. The RROD is a major pain, but at least they keep extending the warrantyfor that repair and are generally making it as painless as possible.

Riley12 wrote:Well, my 4th 360 finally succumbed to the Red Ring of Death. This one lasted almost a year, though, so I guessthat is saying something.

You definitely have to take all of your accessories off of your old one before sending it in. Most likely, you'll get a refurbished model. When all of this RROD stuff started, it was a major pain to have it fixed and getyour downloaded content back. Now, MS updates your console id so that when you plug in your old HDD, yourcontent is already fully usable. The RROD is a major pain, but at least they keep extending the warrantyfor that repair and are generally making it as painless as possible.

Where do you keep your xbox? 4 RROD might indicate your placement of the xbox has inadequate airflow. That is highly unusual to have 4 go on you like that. I know both times it has happened to me it was of my own doing. First one was when i turned it on the day after an 18 hour session. The second is when i had left it on overnight (accidentally), and at night we had a power surge....

To answer the question, ever since my 1st RRoD, I've kept all of my other ones very well ventilated.I even keep it on it's side, because internet lore tells me that is best for it.What my friend now jokingly calls my 'XBox shrine' has the unit three feet from the rest of my electronicson one side, six feet to the wall on the other side, 3 feet from the rear wall and it's propped up on the curvypoints with wood blocks so that even the bottom of the console is a foot off of the ground. I've done everythingI can to ventilate the thing short of giving it a cool, refreshing beverage as it cranks away.

I'm not saying it to bash the console. I love my Wii, PS3 and 360 equally, but it is a frustratingly poor design.I'm just glad that MS now admits to it and has a generous warranty period for the issue. That's a heck of a lotbetter than three years ago when you basically had to win a screaming match with a guy in India to getthe repair done and win another one to get your DLC back.