Pink Daddy wrote:I know some good friends that don't do any drugs. Some of them are in a similar situation as me, having random urinalysis back in the real world. The military doesn't believe in 'accidental dosage', as far as I know.

I would be beyond upset if that happened to myself or anyone I know, especially if it jeopardizes a career.

It's my understanding that LSD cannot be detected in a urinalysis after 48 hours since the active dosage is so minute..

Technically, the military stopped testing for LSD (which only stays in your system for less than 24 hours, you practically have to be tripping during the piss test to pop), citing that it was too expensive to keep testing for LSD when less than 1% came back positive. But, if they're dosing with LSD, why not do it with Ecstacy too? Some Ecstacy is laced with amphetamins. That can stay in your system for 48-72 hours, depending on the dose. There is no telling what you're getting when someone else decides to dose you...

Edit: BTW, I'm a urinalysis program coordinator at my current command, so I know a little bit more than the average joe in regards to military drug testing. Just FYI...

They found neddles on the fantail.. I was passed out in a fan room.. They got excited and called quarters.. After inspecting everyone.. I was missing.. Buddy got me on my feet and pointed me in the direction.. The ship doc was a good drinking buddy.. He put me in sickbay to cover my ass.

Pink Daddy wrote:Some Ecstacy is laced with amphetamins. That can stay in your system for 48-72 hours, depending on the dose.

Well, so the natural timetable of the burn I think would take care of things.

Let's assume.. the last night that you let yourself or are mistakenly given drugs is Saturday night since Sunday you should be sobering up to drive for the exodus. By Sunday night, that's 24 hours. Say you leave Monday morning like I did which was perfect, then get home Monday evening. This is now 48 hours. If you take Tuesday off and don't go into work until Wednesday, then you are at 72 hours+.. and this is assuming they piss test you right away. If you want to give a better buffer, then just drink the final night and make Friday your last day.

Can they dose you with something that lasts longer than a week and makes you really, really, horny?

This chick friend of mine has been going crazy since she foolishly let a guy fill her cup with icewater in his RV. She didn't watch him fill the cup and ever since she's so horny it's crazy. 4-5 times a day isn't enough!!!

Both veteran Burners in a camp full of veteran Burners, both people who had done LSD in the past.

i'm a 10 year veteran. i've done LSD in the past to the point of completely separating from my ego, and back again on several occasions. amazing and worthwhile experiences.

on my last 3 burns, i did no drugs. on two occasions within those last 3 years, due to sleep depravation and general stress, i had 24 hour lapses wherein whenever i closed my eyes, i saw the playa happening in front of me in clear 3 dimensions; a sort of waking dream. in the evenings i had random hallucinations. nothing like this has never happened off the playa.

because of my deep experiences with psychedelics, i knew i had not been dosed. i was experiencing a different type of trip that anyone with less experience could confuse for being dosed. it's only the dosing paranoia that gives people the ease of coming out and saying, "gee - i think i've been dosed", rather than collecting themselves and considering their immediate experience without sounding alarms.

also, saying you've been dosed is an immediate attention reward scenario. everyone around you will come to your attention and care. it's frequently too easy for some people to 'cry dosing' when they feel on the ropes and weak or unattended.

no one (with VERY RARE exceptions) is going to waste their drugs on unsuspecting burners. there is a code passed down from timothy leary that trippers NEVER EVER EVER - and i mean EVER!!!! dose anyone without their permission. anyone who has tripped on LSD knows this intrinsically. and only a real evil person would do such a thing. and those people don't go to burning man. but maybe a couple have... is no reason to fear your fellow burner, and imprison someone because they sprayed you with a bottle of water.

rangerLEO wrote:sleep depravation and playa stress can cause symptoms very similar to tripping on psychedelics. it frequently does.

A very light dose of psychedelics that is cured with some electrolytes, food and a nap.

most of the people on the playa are from the generation after generation X. they were raised in a highly feminized culture that strives to make everyone believe that all men are predators and potential rapists and/or pedophiles. as children, this generation was raised to believe that they are members of an endangered, precious and exalted class - and thus entitled to everything. now these children are adults and rolling out to the playa. this dosing paranoia is a symptom of a really screwed up generation.

Except for the fact it is a very real thing. Maybe not to the level some people make it out to be, but I personally know 4 different people that have been dosed via their drinking glass.

from the massive undercover police action on the playa, to the spray bottle paranoia, to the fear of dosing cups - NO ONE CAN BE TRUSTED. every new person you meet out there must be considered a potential risk. makes you wonder what kind of community it really is.

Well, the undercover police action is easy, don't offer or accept illegal substances from strangers. Even if there were no police presence, this is a logical course of action.

Its a community of 50k people and while probably lower per capita, it will have the same type of breakdown as any other community of 50k people in terms of people up to no good. Be it stealing generators/gear from camps on burn night to dosing people.

rangerLEO wrote:also, saying you've been dosed is an immediate attention reward scenario. everyone around you will come to your attention and care. it's frequently too easy for some people to 'cry dosing' when they feel on the ropes and weak or unattended.

The 2 that were dosed in my camp in 2007 were not seeking attention or on the ropes. Noggin happened to look around, get a silly grin and say "Oh my, I do believe I'm tripping"

no one (with VERY RARE exceptions) is going to waste their drugs on you. there is a code passed down from timothy leary that trippers NEVER EVER EVER - and i mean EVER!!!! dose anyone without their permission. anyone who has tripped on LSD knows this intrinsically. and only a real evil person would do such a thing. and those people don't go to burning man. but maybe a couple have... is no reason to fear your fellow burner, and imprison someone because they sprayed you with a bottle of water.

A lot of the people tripping on acid these days have probably never even heard of Timothy Leary.

If you know a cooker, getting a few ounces of liquid LSD is not that big of a deal so the idea of wasting their drugs is a moot point especially if they have some kind of sick perverted view that the mind expansion of LSD is a gift that everyone should enjoy with them.

Pink Daddy wrote:I know some good friends that don't do any drugs. Some of them are in a similar situation as me, having random urinalysis back in the real world. The military doesn't believe in 'accidental dosage', as far as I know.

I would be beyond upset if that happened to myself or anyone I know, especially if it jeopardizes a career.

It's my understanding that LSD cannot be detected in a urinalysis after 48 hours since the active dosage is so minute..

Technically, the military stopped testing for LSD (which only stays in your system for less than 24 hours, you practically have to be tripping during the piss test to pop), citing that it was too expensive to keep testing for LSD when less than 1% came back positive. But, if they're dosing with LSD, why not do it with Ecstacy too? Some Ecstacy is laced with amphetamins. That can stay in your system for 48-72 hours, depending on the dose. There is no telling what you're getting when someone else decides to dose you...

Edit: BTW, I'm a urinalysis program coordinator at my current command, so I know a little bit more than the average joe in regards to military drug testing. Just FYI...

LSD (although the quantities needed boggle my mind... perhaps I need to find a cooker and get to know them!) can dose you through the skin, I suppose, although not very efficiently. I don't know this for sure, but I'd be surprised if spritzing someone with water dosed with ecstasy would have any effect.

Amazing that someone would do something like that, regardless. Especially when there are so many willing recipients!

rangerLEO wrote:sleep depravation and playa stress can cause symptoms very similar to tripping on psychedelics. it frequently does.

every third person out there is under the impression that they've been dosed at one point during the week.

most of the people on the playa are from the generation after generation X. they were raised in a highly feminized culture that strives to make everyone believe that all men are predators and potential rapists and/or pedophiles. as children, this generation was raised to believe that they are members of an endangered, precious and exalted class - and thus entitled to everything. now these children are adults and rolling out to the playa. this dosing paranoia is a symptom of a really screwed up generation.

almost every woman who gets blacked-out drunk out there claims to have been dosed. in the morning she tells her campmates, and the paranoia spreads. we had one woman in our camp last year who we didn't know very well who did just this. everyone gave her the benefit of the doubt at first, and the suspicion turned to the men in the camp. there was a highly uncomfortable feeling in the camp until days later when we realized she was just a drunk, who repeatedly blacked-out while drinking and further cried wolf about being dosed.

this dosing paranoia has spread across the playa, and is implied in every new encounter - is this person going to dose me? as a man, everytime i see these ladies with lids on their cups, it is implied that she needs it for protection against the men (myself included) around her, because all men are predators. her entire life has been spent in fear of the stranger, and now she has this cup to show the world her defenses are up. the paranoid little brat has grown up, i guess.

from the massive undercover police action on the playa, to the spray bottle paranoia, to the fear of dosing cups - NO ONE CAN BE TRUSTED. every new person you meet out there must be considered a potential risk. makes you wonder what kind of community it really is.

wow, this little diatribe against the generations younger than yours reflects much more about you as a person than anything else.

I don't know about any dosing paranoia, but as someone who has dropped acid probably 30-50 times (including many times at burningman) in his life, I can tell you that I was tripping on acid and that I didn't consciously ingest any. So, someone dosed me. Been out the playa 7 times, have had many sleep deprived days, etc. etc. and I know the difference. Its never something I'd thought about before, but I will definitely be more careful in the future....

Your blanket judgment of "the generation after generation x" speaks to your inability differentiate individuals and individual experiences from your group prejudices.

I'd definitely be curious to hear your thoughts on blacks, latinos, and jews as a whole.... Please, enlighten us with more of your generalizations....

A lot of the people tripping on acid these days have probably never even heard of Timothy Leary

leary was just the messenger. anyone (with few exceptions) who has experimented with LSD doesn't need leary's teachings to know that you don't dose anyone without their permission. that's the intrinsic nature of the drug.

if you have 'cookers' on the playa who have never really experimented with the drug trying to nefariously further its demand by spraying it on people - then you have a dangerous and demented environment that should be avoided at ALL COSTS. if not, you simply have paranoid fear. considering the BM population that i've experienced, the later is most likely.

rangerLEO wrote:sleep depravation and playa stress can cause symptoms very similar to tripping on psychedelics. it frequently does.

every third person out there is under the impression that they've been dosed at one point during the week.

most of the people on the playa are from the generation after generation X. they were raised in a highly feminized culture that strives to make everyone believe that all men are predators and potential rapists and/or pedophiles. as children, this generation was raised to believe that they are members of an endangered, precious and exalted class - and thus entitled to everything. now these children are adults and rolling out to the playa. this dosing paranoia is a symptom of a really screwed up generation.

almost every woman who gets blacked-out drunk out there claims to have been dosed. in the morning she tells her campmates, and the paranoia spreads. we had one woman in our camp last year who we didn't know very well who did just this. everyone gave her the benefit of the doubt at first, and the suspicion turned to the men in the camp. there was a highly uncomfortable feeling in the camp until days later when we realized she was just a drunk, who repeatedly blacked-out while drinking and further cried wolf about being dosed.

this dosing paranoia has spread across the playa, and is implied in every new encounter - is this person going to dose me? as a man, everytime i see these ladies with lids on their cups, it is implied that she needs it for protection against the men (myself included) around her, because all men are predators. her entire life has been spent in fear of the stranger, and now she has this cup to show the world her defenses are up. the paranoid little brat has grown up, i guess.

from the massive undercover police action on the playa, to the spray bottle paranoia, to the fear of dosing cups - NO ONE CAN BE TRUSTED. every new person you meet out there must be considered a potential risk. makes you wonder what kind of community it really is.

without reading the responses you have gotten on this post,(i'm assuming you'll get hammered by some) I just wanted to say that I found your post very interesting and thought provoking. I think that it hit a good portion of the population right on the head.
..of course it's very generalized but...thanks for it.

Hey, rangerLEO I totally respect your posts. But I have (and unfortunately do) get sometimes blacked out drunk on the playa. And have never cried "dosed!"

Just saying.

I have had camp mates that have OBVIOUSLY been dosed. They didn't think it, they didn't even go that way with their thoughts but their behavior change and the obvious trip was completely clear. It does happen. I don't know the logic behind it (as in, it makes no fucking sense!) but it does happen. I've shepherded enough mis-dosed people to know, lol.

Meh. It sucks. Don't dose people without their consent. Don't do ANYTHING without their consent. Doesn't seem that hard..but for some people, it is. =/

I was dosed my first year. Sadly it was at a social event where I was with a bunch of friends (and strangers). I was planning on going out with this cute guy (no names mentioned), I wne in my tent to change into nightgarb, and blacked out.

And for me, on 2 absinthes and a glassa vino, that doesn't happen.

Same happened when I stopped by this biker bar once, got dosed there (sad as it used to be a hangout of mine). Luckily I made it home, and was there for a half hour before it hit me. Fucking scary.

On to spray dosing - getting spray dosed via skin contact is not very effective at all... but get sprayed in your face? You're done.

If you're squeamish, bypass the red section below, OK?

Years ago in a pesticide class they were talking about the different "routes of entry" and which was worse.

The instructor (this shows how long ago this was) took some toxic nastiness, split it in 3rds, and proceeded to dose these white rats - Dermally (skin), Orally (drunk), and sprayed int the eyes.

Skinrat was kinda slow and lethargic but didn''t die. Swallowrat went into convulsions and died in about 15-20 minutes. Sprayrat - Within a minute he was an ex-rat.

So yeah, if they hit your eyes (or other facial mucous membranes) you can get dosed on a low amount pretty quickly.

But now, I'm gonna go slightly out on a limb here and say that RangerLEO represents the typical sweeping views and stereotypes that run rampant in law enforcement today. (I realize that my statement is also a sweeping generalization, and not all LEOs hold those views. I also realize that s/he never said s/he was a LEO anyway.)

So, personally, "ranger" "leo", I wonder how you can gather an entire generation and say they've been "feminized" unless you, yourself were bombarded with machismo during your developmental years. And now, when you see the youngest generation embracing all of their sexuality and a loosening of sexual stereotypes, it riles your homophobia and challenges your views.

Those of us that are not as young as the youngers were brought up in a different way than generation before and after, but it's been a LONG time since our society even somewhat resembled Leave It To Beaver Neighborhood, where you apparently were raised. Or maybe it was WhiteTrashVille, where I was raised? When I left I found out the world is a lot bigger and a lot different than even one of the biggest cities in America. I found out there are people that are a lot meaner (AND a lot nicer) than what I was used to. I accept that and don't judge people for being self-responsible (i.e. doing whatever they need to do to keep themselves safe, in their mind).

I really find it hard to believe you are an experienced burner (especially if you are a ranger or a leo) and still hold the idea that every girl that has a lid on her cup thinks every man she sees is a rapist. Good God. Grow up. It's not all about you. Any PERSON who's ever been to a bar in a college town knows it's better to have a lid than not, if nothing else than so you don't spill it when you're dancing!

I would tell you my own experience with this but I won't. I could go on about your other narrow-minded views but I won't. I'm riled enough already. And I really think it'd be a waste of time. FUkin re-entry...

Being a recent graduate of a Bio-Chem course that included an insane amount of Calculations, and a "Head", also apparently an entitled/femininized Gen-Xer in possesin of fair to middlen logic skills; I Ask the Following....
Do you honestly think the same intellect that wants to dose some one with a spray bottle, be able to calculate (with a +/- 20% error) the amount of a solution to mix?seriously not as easy as geting yer hands on some of that 'ol janx spirit, and slaping it in a sprayer. If some of these words need t be goggled you would fail: Mole, Molar, Molecular weight, 6.022 x 10^23, trans dermal ingestion, the going street price for a x amount of "Stuff".
Lets say you've got the math, and the Cash, hell let's say you are a chemist and cooked up your own batch. why should I believe [fear] that you'd just g about dosing random folk?ok, The first group of people to show the door to is those that would claim "They are demented sociopaths with no rhyme to their reason." uh, generally people with the mental facility's to produce said drug probly have sampled the Kool-aid so to speak. and as a few of us know Conscious expanding substances seem to make you think about cause and effect, ergo not fucking likely that person would "waste" their goods on a non-supplicant.
and if you ment sociopatic to decribe those kind of people as sexual peditors, "they dose you then rape you." well Flunitrazepam (RohypnolÂ®) works hella better. [watch the Hangover and think]
the second group I hear this from relies on an even weaker stance; "they want every one to feel high like they are." frakin insane! When I'm trippin balls the last thing I want around me is some one with a normal I.Q. high on acid trying to elucidate on, oh, let's say the Nature of God, as if they were his brother. what an experienced head wants and needs around them while high are Drunks, they are funny, have cigarettes, and can tell the difference between an Art car and two glo-stick bedecked ravers fucking on the open playa.
And as an aside; If said Cook was so anti-Social don't you think they'd be out to Dose Cops? really! think about it?
Well It happened to a friend of mine, it was the water bottle!if we all got a dime for every thing that we thought "happened" on the playa, or a dime for everything your drama queen friend claimed, our ticket price would be ten cents.
In light of; Occam's razor, which is the principle that "entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity" please explain why a mad Scientist cook would be able to act Crazy while being Rational. Honestly the only real answerer to this is Bush/Chenny/Obama/Trilateralist world domination plan relies on getting unsuspecting burners to lose their cookies and chase after glo-stick bedecked ravers who fuck on the open playa while giving out $250,000 worth of LSD.

[Not to OPer]
Sorry for not believing you, I have given all of my gullibility hit poitns out to our camps sparkle pony, so they could achieve nirvana at a Ti Chi Chi Tea Yoga Chakra decorating party. my bad.

.......................................................................................Oh yeah, this year I was totally twerping out at the fence. ~Lonesombri

Being a recent graduate of a Bio-Chem course that included an insane amount of Calculations, and a "Head", also apparently an entitled/femininized Gen-Xer in possession of fair to middlen logic skills; I Ask the Following....

Do you honestly think the same intellect that wants to dose some one with a spray bottle, is able to calculate (with a +/- 20% error) the amount of a solution to mix?seriously not as easy as geting yer hands on some of that 'ol janx spirit, and slaping it in a sprayer. If some of these words need t be goggled you would fail: Mole, Molar, Molecular weight, 6.022 x 10^23, trans dermal ingestion, the going street price for a x amount of "Stuff".

Lets say you've got the math, and the Cash, hell let's say you are a chemist and cooked up your own batch. why should I believe [fear] that you'd just go about dosing random folk?

ok, The first group of people to show the door to is those that would claim "They are demented sociopaths with no rhyme to their reason." uh, generally people with the mental facility's to produce said drug probly have sampled the Kool-aid so to speak. and as a few of us know Conscious expanding substances seem to make you think about cause and effect, ergo not fucking likely that person would "waste" their goods on a non-supplicant.
and if you meant sociopathic to describe those kind of people as sexual predators, ie. "they dose you then rape you." well Flunitrazepam (RohypnolÂ®) works hella better. [watch the Hangover and think about it]
the second group I hear this from relies on an even weaker stance; "they want every one to feel high like they are." Now that's just crazy talk! When I'm trippin balls the last thing I want around me is some one with a normal I.Q. high on acid trying to elucidate on, oh, let's say the Nature of God, as if they were his brother. what an experienced head wants and needs around them while high are Drunks, they are funny, have cigarettes, and can tell the difference between an Art car and two glo-stick bedecked ravers fucking on the open playa.
And as an aside; If said Cook was so anti-Social don't you think they'd be out to Dose Cops? really! think about it?

Well It happened to a friend of mine, it was the water bottle!

If we all got a dime for every thing that we thought "happened" on the playa, or a dime for everything your drama queen friend claimed, our ticket price for the burn would be about ten cents.

In light of; Occam's razor, which is the principle that "entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity" please explain why a mad Scientist cook would be able to act Crazy while being Rational.

Honestly the only real answerer to this is Bush/Chenny/Obama/Trilateralist world domination plan relies on getting unsuspecting burners to lose their cookies and chase after glo-stick bedecked ravers who fuck on the open playa while giving out $250,000 worth of LSD.

[Note to OPer];
Sorry for not believing you, I have given all of my gullibility hit points out to our camps sparkle pony, so they could achieve nirvana at a Ti Chi Chai Tea Yoga Chakra aligning party.

All snark included, free of charge.

.......................................................................................Oh yeah, this year I was totally twerping out at the fence. ~Lonesombri

Despite popular belief, transdermal dosing is at best extraordinarily inefficient, and more likely not possible at all unless one is handling pure compound. Filling a spray bottle with pure LSD would require literally millions of doses (12 ounces = approx 300 million micrograms; 100 micrograms is a solid dose) with a street value in excess of $10 million. (Despite what a previous poster said, it's definitely a very big deal to get a "few ounces" since it's such a difficult and time consuming chemical to manufacture. Even if you knew a "cooker" who would do it gratis, the precursors themselves are highly controlled and thus prohibitively expensive when you're talking about these quantities.) Even if someone did decide it was worth a couple of mil for the joy of maybe possibly potentially dosing strangers, given LSD's rapid degradation in sunlight and, to a lesser extent, high temperature, it's uncertain whether they'd see any return on their investment.

Bottom line, no one got dosed via spray bottle on the playa. In fact, no one has ever gotten dosed via spray bottle ever. If you felt you were dosed you are either mistaken, or were dosed orally.

The real danger here is not spray bottle dosing, it's paranoia in a community that's founded upon ideals of openness and trust. The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

ajs wrote:Despite popular belief, transdermal dosing is at best extraordinarily inefficient, and more likely not possible at all unless one is handling pure compound. Filling a spray bottle with pure LSD would require literally millions of doses (12 ounces = approx 300 million micrograms; 100 micrograms is a solid dose) with a street value in excess of $10 million. (Despite what a previous poster said, it's definitely a very big deal to get a "few ounces" since it's such a difficult and time consuming chemical to manufacture. Even if you knew a "cooker" who would do it gratis, the precursors themselves are highly controlled and thus prohibitively expensive when you're talking about these quantities.) Even if someone did decide it was worth a couple of mil for the joy of maybe possibly potentially dosing strangers, given LSD's rapid degradation in sunlight and, to a lesser extent, high temperature, it's uncertain whether they'd see any return on their investment.

Bottom line, no one got dosed via spray bottle on the playa. In fact, no one has ever gotten dosed via spray bottle ever. If you felt you were dosed you are either mistaken, or were dosed orally.

The real danger here is not spray bottle dosing, it's paranoia in a community that's founded upon ideals of openness and trust. The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

+1

.......................................................................................Oh yeah, this year I was totally twerping out at the fence. ~Lonesombri

ajs wrote:Despite popular belief, transdermal dosing is at best extraordinarily inefficient, and more likely not possible at all unless one is handling pure compound. Filling a spray bottle with pure LSD would require literally millions of doses (12 ounces = approx 300 million micrograms; 100 micrograms is a solid dose) with a street value in excess of $10 million. (Despite what a previous poster said, it's definitely a very big deal to get a "few ounces" since it's such a difficult and time consuming chemical to manufacture. Even if you knew a "cooker" who would do it gratis, the precursors themselves are highly controlled and thus prohibitively expensive when you're talking about these quantities.) Even if someone did decide it was worth a couple of mil for the joy of maybe possibly potentially dosing strangers, given LSD's rapid degradation in sunlight and, to a lesser extent, high temperature, it's uncertain whether they'd see any return on their investment.

Bottom line, no one got dosed via spray bottle on the playa. In fact, no one has ever gotten dosed via spray bottle ever. If you felt you were dosed you are either mistaken, or were dosed orally.

The real danger here is not spray bottle dosing, it's paranoia in a community that's founded upon ideals of openness and trust. The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

I agree with what you're saying. Although I will note that if the stuff gets in your eyes, it's a VERY different story from any minor skin absorption.