.45 ACP blackpowder?

With all the shortages of components I have been shooting my Remington 1858 revolver more and my other guns less. In fact, one of my buddies and I have started making our own black powder with good results. He got a mold for round balls and we have been using them too with good results. The only thing needed from a gun store are the caps.

I have been toying with the idea of making some rounds of .45 ACP with black powder. Has anyone tried this? Can the case hold enough black powder to get the bullet out the barrel? How many rounds can I expect to shoot before the gun gums up? I would try this in a 1911 and a Glock 21, using 230 gr. cast lead bullets.

There are a couple guys into CAS who've shown up at past Contagion zombie-themed 3-gun shoots sporting wood stocked AR15s, Winchester 1897s, and M1911s in .45 ACP with ammo handloaded with lead bullets and black powder. The 1911s run just fine with no tweaking necessary. It's quite a sight.

TwoEyedJack

February 12, 2013, 05:44 PM

Sweet! I think I'll give a try this weekend. A Glock shooting black powder should blow some minds at the range.

dpote

February 12, 2013, 06:00 PM

I've done it with my Springfield GI and an HK USPc. Great fun!
Both ran fine without a hiccup.

Dave

BCRider

February 12, 2013, 06:46 PM

A local guy shooting CAS Wild Bunch with his had to install a lighter recoil spring to get the gun to cycle reliably with the BP rounds. He was using 230gn LRN bullets. To make them compatible with BP he melted out the stock lube and replaced it with a BP friendly lube.

And yes, it DOES make a lot of smoke.... :D

boommer

February 12, 2013, 08:19 PM

OH!! LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME! I'M IS COOL and so? kinda like watching a kid brake torquing the old mans truck at a red light! you know its going to work and your peers on Monday in school that seen you say WOW! and the old man says GET THAT RUBBER OFF THE QUARTER PANEL!

I guess I'm getting old !!

dpote

February 12, 2013, 08:28 PM

I did not approach it that way, boommer.
My thought process was "what if this is all I had?"
No burnouts, no doughnuts, no grandstanding.
Just simple if I had to.

Dave

Packman

February 12, 2013, 08:31 PM

Hey boommer....Sheesh.

Dpote, I've actually had the same thought. I don't currently reload for any of my centerfire stuff, but given that I have a lot of BP on hand, it'd be interesting to load some of that up if I did start. I have lots of revolvers, which is a no-brainer with BP, but I'd be curious to see with my autos.

Don't think I'd try it with my S&W 3913, but I'd be more than willing to try it from my XD.

dpote

February 12, 2013, 08:35 PM

Its all good.
As long as there are no petroleum-based lubricants on the firearm.
I used Ballistol.

Dave

boommer

February 12, 2013, 08:57 PM

I really didn't mean to mean about it! more of a LOL but I'd rather go clean the rubber off the truck, because you going to have strip and clean EVERY PIECE OF THAT PISTOL probably even the strip clip.

TwoEyedJack

February 13, 2013, 12:01 AM

OH!! LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME! I'M IS COOL and so? kinda like watching a kid brake torquing the old mans truck at a red light! you know its going to work and your peers on Monday in school that seen you say WOW! and the old man says GET THAT RUBBER OFF THE QUARTER PANEL!

I guess I'm getting old !!
I was at our local Sportsmans Warehouse today. There was very little in the way of gunpowder on the shelves. In fact, the only powder I saw there was for shotshells, mainly Blue Dot, which I know can be used for handguns. But the point is, a shooting in CT leads to this, what happens if there is a string of events and we cannot get gunpowder for an extended period of time? Black powder can be made from ingredients you can get at hardware stores. Smokeless powder is going for $22-25 a lb. I can make black powder for less than $2.

boommer

February 13, 2013, 01:08 AM

YA so whats you point two eye jack I new it could be done. I suppose I could make my own powder like you or think, but I'm not going to gum up my 1911's and spend that time for something I already knew and if I'm down to making my own powder, If or When (AND IF YOU WANT TO BLOW YOURSELF UP BEFORE YOU HAVE TO( HAVE AT IT FOR 2$ PER# !! ) I know what it takes to make black.

Skinny 1950

February 13, 2013, 04:22 AM

A .45ACP case with enough black powder in it to provide a bit of compression when the bullet is seated would be almost the same as an M1860 .44 in terms of ballistics. The shallow rifling of the modern 1911 barrel would become ineffective with any amount of fouling and so the older gun would be superior after 3 or 4 shots so why bother?

StrawHat

February 13, 2013, 06:27 AM

Black powder has been made for centuries, just be careful. Static will not set it off but a spark will. (A search will find the static experiment.)

From what I have read about the 1911 and black powder, it really doesn't gunk them too badly. Check out some of the "Wild Bunch"threads on the Cowboy sites. Not something I would do but I don't care for the 1911.

TwoEyedJack

February 13, 2013, 01:00 PM

Black powder has been made for centuries, just be careful. Static will not set it off but a spark will. (A search will find the static experiment.)

From what I have read about the 1911 and black powder, it really doesn't gunk them too badly. Check out some of the "Wild Bunch"threads on the Cowboy sites. Not something I would do but I don't care for the 1911.
I'll just use the Glock and put it in the dishwasher when I am done.

kBob

February 13, 2013, 03:59 PM

While parcipatng in a round table with Eric Flint's 1632 universe the topic kept comming up. The Universe revolved around a W Virginia village of about 1999 being transported into southern Germany in 1632.

Discussions about the suitability for using various guns with BP came up a bit and one person either on the round table or the open board claimed to have loaded and shot about 25 rounds semi auto without cleaning IIRC with 200 SWC bullets and BP.

Most of the open board people seemed to think that only re enactors and a very few hunters would have BP arms and so not much emphasis got placed on them in the later fan based books of short stories and tech stuff.

It was an interesting study in what can be found in modern "villages" and what might be done with it if an alien art project gone bad were to dump the village in the thirty years war.

Rather liked that very quickly there were individuals making caps and having acciedents and folks making BP ect. Eric even made a character based on me even though he shot down my main firearms idea.

WOnder if a 9x19 with a 90 grain RNL .380 acp bullet might have enough room when loaded to correct over all length to hold sufficient powder to cycle?

I seem to recall that Busyhands or someone was attempting to pull .22LR and reload the cases with BP.

-kBob

willypete

February 13, 2013, 06:46 PM

I haven't used BP but I have used 777 to do this in a 1911. 200 gr LSWC with a case full of 777. ~1/16" compression. It's fun and smokey but does gum up after a while and accuracy will suffer after a few mags. True black powder might be worse for fouling.

Congrats to you for making your own BP. I've wanted to do it for a while but other projects always get in the way.

MagnumDweeb

February 13, 2013, 07:45 PM

Won't give too much away but look into Potassium Chlorate for your primers (you'll need bleach, potassium chloride, and an easily controlled heating surface). If you do this use an ammo can to carry them. I have an ammo can solely for carrying my BP cartridges and the ammo box is packed with rags so the box isn't bouncing about. Also look into graphite (from mechanical pencil refillers) to substitute for a small percentage of coal. Also check out dextrin (can be made from corn starch), and treating your mix with denatured alcohol as you make it in a mortar and pestle. I bought my mortar and pestle through a bath and beyond store. And I hand make my black powder. The dextrin and graphite help lessen its shock sensitivity and possible risks of discharge from static electricity. Not giving any recipes, and I'm not recommending it. But I am putting it out there for purely academic interest.

The denatured alcohol encourages homogeny in the mix and it will dry in the sun. Mix in the graphite when you mix in the charcoal. And be aware that if you do yours yourself. It can be twice as powerful as Goex if you do it right so be very careful in working up loads. Also look into making your own charcoal with a soup can and an open fire. Do not run 23 grams of this homemade BP in a brass frame revolver, and be ready to add cornmeal to your brass cartridges.

I've got an STI Spartan that shoots BP exclusives and after its gone through fifty rounds get ready to clean it post haste as the sulfur is highly corrosive. Clean the barrel like your cleaning it for mercury salts. I actually take the barrel out of the gun to clean it and have a small used up cook pot that it goes in full of kerosene. I know it's way overdoing it but still better safe than sorry. It's fun to do once in awhile but very time-consuming.

That's a starting point, use it at your own risk.

Pulp

February 14, 2013, 12:16 AM

Since neither the 1911 or the Glock are gas operated, the BP won't hurt them. But, and I don't know this for a fact, I have heard NEVER to use cast lead bullets in a Glock. I don't own any Glocks, and have only shot a couple of them. But you might check the owner's manual to see if it says anything about cast bullets. And if it is OK, let me know, so I won't be spreading false information.

boommer

February 14, 2013, 01:56 AM

magnum dweeb this sounds like the powder All us BPRC shooters need in the long range game we wouldn't have near the correction in windage and elevation problems we have, with that with all the extra velocity? and still be using black.
What kind of wood are you charring to storing all that energy? I would sell this mix to the manufactures. AND 23 (grams) !!! in a brass frame !! (KEY board) jockey

Clayton

TwoEyedJack

February 14, 2013, 11:51 PM

Since neither the 1911 or the Glock are gas operated, the BP won't hurt them. But, and I don't know this for a fact, I have heard NEVER to use cast lead bullets in a Glock. I don't own any Glocks, and have only shot a couple of them. But you might check the owner's manual to see if it says anything about cast bullets. And if it is OK, let me know, so I won't be spreading false information.
I have run into major leading problems with my G21. If I keep the round count down to around 20 it is not too bad to clean out. I will be getting a lone wolf barrel as soon as the current kerfluffle dies down.

jeepnik

February 16, 2013, 06:00 PM

Okay, I'll admit that I sometimes like to do odd things. And loading .45 acps with BP is one of them. I'm not going to give any specifics (there's always some idiot out there who only reads the first sentence). But, you can push a hard cast 230 gr ball profiled bullet at around 750 fps without any problems. This from a 5" barreled 1911.

Now, me being me, and after a bunch of smokepole snobs tried to give me a hard time before I fired the BP 45-70's out of my Marlin 1895 GS, I came up with an idea.

Just to mess with the BP snobs minds, I loaded said .45 acps and waited for a day when there were several in attendance. I walked over to the BP range and started setting up. You should have heard the gasps of horror when I drug out my 1911. Even more so when I drug out my Glock 30.:what:

Cries of foul went up. Range officers were called. A general wailing and wringing of the hands occured. And, as the RO was walking towards me, I fired the 1911. The group pretty much stopped in their tracks as a cloud of white smoke bellowed forth.:evil:

I then fired off a few from the Glock. Funny, the BP snobs just ignore me these days. It's better for all concerned.:neener:

Backpacker33

February 16, 2013, 06:12 PM

A friend and I loaded up some black powder substitute in .45ACP and fired it in a WWII-era Colt 1911. Worked just fine.
Then, ginning like fools, we loaded up a box full and fired it through a M1A1 Thompson. GREAT fun, and we had black faces after.
We used a 9mm case-full of powder for the .45ACP case. Then put a bee's wax wad over it and loaded a 230-gr Lasermax lead bullet over that. There was no lead fouling and remarkably little powder fouling in the bores. The action of the Colt was filthy and the Thompson breach was REALLY filthy. Clean up took a while.

jeepnik

February 16, 2013, 06:14 PM

A friend and I loaded up some black powder substitute in .45ACP and fired it in a WWII-era Colt 1911. Worked just fine.
Then, ginning like fools, we loaded up a box full and fired it through a M1A1 Thompson. GREAT fun, and we had black faces after.
We used a 9mm case-full of powder for the .45ACP case. Then put a bee's wax wad over it and loaded a 230-gr Lasermax lead bullet over that. There was no lead fouling and remarkably little powder fouling in the bores. The action of the Colt was filthy and the Thompson breach was REALLY filthy. Clean up took a while.