I tend to agree with Sue. As a Jew I can tell you that anti-Semitic jokes about orthodox Jews in cartoons and otherwise always focuses on their beards and sidelocks. Tragically the Nazis understood the religious significance of the beards and brutally ripped the beards from the faces of Chasidic Jews even to the point of tearing their facial skin.

BCL, there is absolutely nothing funny (I know that it was not intended)about using Chadisic beards as a lever to make jokes. It brings back too many painful memories for these Jews. I would get rid of it.

Whooee! I figger anybody wants to grow a beard like that knows they're gonna take some ribbin'. My brother's got a beard like the guy in the bottom pitcher. My grandson don't see his great-uncle too often but he calls him "the man with the beard." We all ge a good laff outta that.

Whether they grow the beard fer fame an' glory as a rock star or fer fame and glory as a holier-than-thou religious fringe member, they gotta know they've made a choice to look different than the norm. Along with the hair, they need to grow a thick skin.

Nazis ate roast beef. Does that mean nobody can ever eat roast beef without bein' called a nazi? Sheeshh!

How crass...these people LOST an entire generation! They were murdered for goodness sakes!! I guess when Nazi soldiers murder your children and degrade you by pulling your beard off your face with chunks of bloody skin and pulp for pleasure well maybe then you will get it. Some of the comments I have read here I would more expect on Blazingcatfur. Shame on you. Learn to show some understanding of peoples pain...Jews understand humour more than most...they also understand stupid and ignorant prejudice as well.

A little too much outrage. It's rarely kind to mock someone's beard for any reason, but it doesn't somehow become a crueller jibe if its thrown at a Jew. If Xenu and magical underwear are fair game, funny looking beards are also on the table.

It simply amazes me as to the level of ignorance here that from this non-Jew's perspective is simply crossing into anti-Semitism.

Sue and Mitka were actually being a bit too nice about it though they both took time to try and explain with tact and decency. I haven't got their patience.

In the living memory of quite possibly the folks you poke fun at in your thread BigCityLib; an entire generation of their people was fucking slaughtered. In fact a much larger number of Hasidic Jews were murdered because their beards and garb set them aside from other Jews who had more of an opportunity to blend in.

Many probably saw (or have heard the tragic and brutal stories) of their parents and grandparents wiped out and the cruel manner in which this was done.

Its time to pack away your ignorant humour and try to put yourself in their shoes. Yes I know this will be difficult. After all you privileged people think humour is just for fun all the time. It isn’t. Believe it or not this kind of ignorant "fun" at the expense of these folk will invoke horror and even nightmares. You think Mitka and Sue have over reacted? I say you hold on to your ignorance with such ferocity you refuse to feel or try to understand their pain. You are no better than those you rightly criticize on other boards like BlazingCatfur or Kathy Shaidle. Either way you cut it they are ugly bigots. But you too by failing to recognize the pain you are causing enter into this dark world of bigotry and I say shame on you for doing so.

Most Chassidic Jews attempt to avoid a practice called ‘lashon hara’ but what you have indulged in this post borders on ‘hotzaat diba’. It wouldn’t hurt you to learn a little from them rather than using them to mimic than the humour of the Aryanian Nation.

Nice work BCL: first your idol the Jackal demonstrates his latent bigotry with a "joke" about Chinese cuisine and now you prove up your latent anti-semitism with a Hamas worthy exercise in photoshopping.

BigCityLiberal, You need to seriously reconsider this thread. Forget Jay Currie and any other rightwing loonie, take this from an anti-racist, this is obscene. You have had 2 members of the Jewish community tell you why. That you choose to ignore their pleas and listen to those who simply don't get it is inappropriate.

Be a "mench", you have made an error in judgement. Apologize and remove this bigoted thread. Any other choice puts you squarely in the racist tent. That's not your place.

Jesus, what a bunch of whining nancyboys. This is what the rightwing whiners consider as anti-semitic? Jesus I expect each of you wankers to head over to Kate, Kathy's and Richard Evans place and throughly condemn than as Nazis for their Holocaust Tattoo Joke?

Comparing a Jew with a beard to a member of ZZ Top is on the same level as the Aryan Nation in Calgary or the Nazis? You guys need to recalibrate your outrage meters, their fubar'ed.

Oh, by the way Kate and Ezra never seem to mind the Aryon Nation dickheads march through Calgary, the are more concerned about the Commie Party that protest them.

Sigh...I am just so disappointed in you BCL. I had you pegged for one of the good guys. The only thing you have proven to me is that when push comes to shove even those we think are "good guys" slide quite easily into anti-Semitism. Its terribly disappointing and even more depressing.

"They get their pass to do this from the fact they support the inherent illiberalism of the HRC's. Because they are willing to deny free speech to selected - and rather loathsome - basement Nazis they are perfectly allowed to be as hateful as they want on their own sites."

Jay, there are times when families and friends will vehemently diagree on issues. I think that on this matter BCL erred in judgement and I am sad and confused he is unable to recognize his ignorance. Partly because it feeds right into this fantasy of yours that its all the "HRC stupid", and that with this tupid mistake you can falsely put people like BCF and others on some kind of white horse.

It is not the HRC! In this case its because BCL cannot really feel or understand the pain of these Chasids. He thinks their beards are funny and something to joke about. Does that make him an anti-Semite? Not yet...it may if he continues not to get it but one error in judgement is forgivable if (like in Kinsella's case) it gets recognized and apologies sincerely offered.

However in cases like 5 Feet of fury, BCf and others where posts are repeated ad nauseum about Pakistanis, First Nations, Islam, Chinese ...an impressive list...with no recognition of its inherant pain and racism (actually quite the opposite) then we have an entirely different story.

And that people like 5 feet support Israel is no free pass to to stereotype and villify others.

Coming from a man who has openly called for Christians to be forced to wear stars in Canada, presumably in preparation for whatever sanctions he and his ilk think fit for us, this really shouldn't be a surprise.

A coupla nights ago, The Movie Network (as carried by Bell Express-Vu) showed the Hollywood comedy, Walk Hard: The Dewey Cox Story. Hassidic Jews were portrayed as fatcat record producers. The screenplay gave the characters names like Mazeltov and Dreidel L'Chaim.

The movie was released to the world and has been seen by literally millions of viewers. It got a Golden Globe nomination, as well as several other award nominations. Personally, I ain't much of a comedy fan but I did laff a few times.

Maybe the energy spent in outrage expressed here would be better spent going after an example that has a far greater reach. A few hundred Canadian bloggers may have seen BCL's post. Quite a few less than saw Dewey Cox.

I would like Mitka et al to show us the letters they sent to Hollywood writers and producers.

I hope you guys are keeping score of who's showing up on what side here. Its worth rubbing your noses in it if it gets you to remember for five minutes.

Its not funny. Here's the reason why its not funny.

Large crowds chanting "Kill the Jews!" in Canadian cities have been given a free pass by the cops this year. Crowds featuring lots of Leftist organizations in happy support of the ones doing the chanting.

Jewish kids are getting beat up in Canadian universities for being Jewish. Not just York, but also Queens and lilly white McMaster in Hamilton. Its cool to hate the Jews, everybody is doing it.

Well, maybe not -everybody-. I have yet to see any crowds of conservatives or Christians chanting "Kill the Jews!" Or the Palestinians, Sikhs, Hindus, Chinese, Pakistanis, Jews, Indians or anybody else.

"Kill the gun registry!", that one I've heard. Also "Kill the GST!", but I just can't seem to scrape any racism out of that.

The "Right Wingers" y'all love to despise, like the eeeeeevile racist Kathy Shaidle, were the ones standing with the Jews and getting hustled off by the cops. For disturbing the peace, no less.

The next time one of you boys and girls decide you're going to call The Phantom or some other "right winger" a racist, I want y'all to remember this post. Remember who said what in the comments.

Thanks BCL, you see that is the difference between people like BCL and Shaidle. He recognized the offence and took action. Shaidle glories in her offence and the only action she would ever take is to continue her racist posts.

JimBobby, JinBobby, calm down, there is nothing more futile than trying to argue the philosophy behind this kind of humour or reduce it to rules. It's acceptability is defined largely by convention and the reaction of the targets, not by the rights of the jokester. Also, time, place and context mean everything. Hollywood gets away with it because nobody minds. If they start minding (or stereotype in pro-Palestinian films), it won't.

I'd stay far away from moron and Irish jokes if I were you, but you are well-placed to tell jokes about environmentalists. Hey, did you hear the one about the climate change activist, the alternative energy lobbyist and the farmer's daughter? It's a little too racy to tell in detail, but in the end she's still a virgin.

JimBobby, JinBobby, calm down, there is nothing more futile than trying to argue the philosophy behind this kind of humour or reduce it to rules.

Hmmm... I think it was you who came up with the rule: "I can make jokes about my wife. You can't".

I'm curious as to why you give Hollywood a free pass. "Hollywood gets away with it because nobody minds. "

Why is it that nobody minds what Hollywood does but when it comes to what a blogger with a couple hundred readers does, it's a big deal? I just don't get why Hollywood can do it on a grand scale with impunity and BCL gets his wrists slapped.

When it comes to jokes about my wife, the rule is there are exceptions to the rule about there being no rules.

I dunno, Jewish humour had been a mainstay of Hollywood comedy since the fifties, inspired by a lot of Jewish comedians and directors like Woody Allen. I suspect it happened because it correlates with a period where overt anti-Semitism was rare and sanctioned stiffly socially. Times are becoming darker today and maybe the lights will go out on all that soon.

If anyone can find a genuinely anti-Semitic utterance by me, let him or her produce it. Even shlemazl had to give up, eventually, and has accordingly raised my rank to "stupid commie."

I didn't spend all my time on alt.revisionism years ago, debunking Holocaust-denial, and help to organize the rout of the Heritage Front from Ottawa, to put up with this. Fair warning, Jay, but it's the last one.

If nothing else, this kerfuffle shows that the Newfoundlanders are superior to everyone, even the ancient and so called wise.

A Newfie will laugh at a good Newf joke no matter who tells it.

Beyond that, I think you should have stood your ground BCL.

As I read these types of exchanges, and consider the preponderance of evidence provided by history, there are questions that continue to plague me. Such as, why is it that Jews are disliked, and have been disliked for so very long?

Do Jewish people, and particularly the Israeli government ever ask themselves this? Do they seriously ask themselves this question? Do they already know the answer?

Now, I'm just an old Okie from the country whose linage includes veterans of many foreign wars, including the big one. And I would like to know if our sacrifices have been worth our personal suffering.

Jews aren't the only persons who have suffered and known horror.

Do they remember the efforts of the Allied forces, the British, Canadian, American, Aussies and all the rest that eventually led to the ending of their suffrage?

I would like to hear from them on that once in a while, rather than how the world has, and continues to do them wrong.

What I hear from them is how, via the money train and the political influence that affords them, they control America, and it's foreign policies.

Anyone care to address what I have written? BTW, I'm not especially politically correct, so be forewarned.

I accept Jay's prompt apology, though--so far as it goes. But I don't support anti-Semites either.

I know Sid Ryan--he's a friend of mine from our days in the labour movement. Not an anti-Semitic bone in his body. No pro-Hamas positioning there. Just support for the Palestinians: and we happen to agree on that.

Binary thinkers see all this as a zero-sum game--in any conflict, the amount by which you oppose one side equals the amount by which you support the other. Neither Sid nor I do that. It's possible to oppose Hamas, yet still see them as the legitimately elected representatives of Gaza; it's possible to sympathize with the Gazan Palestinians without throwing in one's lot with Islamic fundamentalists.

The problem is that these differences--hardly nuances--are submerged by some for political reasons. Supporters of Israel are over-eager, to put it mildly, to paint critics of Israeli state policy as "anti-Semites."

That serves an obvious purpose. I'm glad that Jay has backed off, at least to some degree, from what appears to be an overwhelming political temptation. Surely we can discuss even contentious issues without demonizing each other.

I try to keep this place "no holds barred", and am not above keeping really stupid stuff up in the comments for illustrative purposes, but if you go off on a "jews control america" thing, I will delete you.

As for standing down etc., a number of people I know that could not accurately be described as "humourless" were genuinely (rather than fakely) offended. While I might find an occasion where I need to pick a fight with them, I would rather not do it over something as trivial as a joke.