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I have worked with you before Cory and we have came up with great ideas before.

I need not, nor want not to talk about ideas from the past. My comments are only concerning the ideas about what is happening at Sekani in the present. Which are being acted upon without the proper approval of the board.

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That's the difference between you and me. I never pretend that my course is any more than it is. A 5 acre pitch and putt. I suspect your ego feels it could redesign my property into a "Championship" layout like the one you are creating at Crumkani. I hate to tell you this, but that's what it is, your ego, designing this property. Give us (the members of the club and the board) one reason why we should go along with an agenda and design that you and Jeff have been working on, in secret, for months without a lick on input from anyone? and a design that is having a hard time drumming up support?

Not having a hard time drumming up support Stimpio. You, Bob and Gordy are the 3 people that have had problems.. I haven't heard anything but support. Next Saturday we will see if Championship is going to be an appropriate term to describe the lower course on Sakani. My ego isn't really in this picture as much as my frustration with somebody voicing displeasure with an uncompleted project.. Furthermore I have an even bigger problem with you coming onto this forum to air out your grievances with my actions when you were standing directly in front of my face and saw what was going on. If you would have pointed out your issue of tree cutting I could have easily showed you at that moment the few bigger than 2" trees that were cut, had big bends in them and were already folded over trees. Instead you wait to hit the forum, pretend to be nice in person, talk smack on a forum?!?!? Par for the course in the passive aggressive department, eh Stimp?

Bob There might be a couple over 2 inches but not by much.. I was there meeting with the park guy and he showed me what was ok and 2 inches was not in the parameters.. Tress that are bigger but totally bent over are also allowed to be removed.

Hard to properly record a meeting that took place while hiking all over a hillside and pointing at stuff and talking. Even harder is trying to post notes about such meeting in a meaningful manner. I will take any kind of actual feedback I can get. More than interested in having the best possible course as I don't see it as my design, I see it as our design. There have been 6 golfers that have came up and worked and have contributed their ideas to the course we are building. If you want to come give your ideas and feedback you are more than welcome to. I have worked with you before Cory and we have came up with great ideas before.

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I need not, nor want not to talk about ideas from the past. My comments are only concerning the ideas about what is happening at Sekani in the present. Which are being acted upon without the proper approval of the board.

Bucket courses have been laid out and played long before the board ever existed

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Bucket courses have been laid out and played long before the board ever existed

Whats happening now is the exact same thing that happened at People's park when it first went in.. Nobody whined and complained then.. Don't know what the issue is now. Even though I actually designed People's park everybody thought that Kevin designed it. It was a very difficult piece of property to put a safe layout together that flowed, and to make it as difficult as could possibly be on a 20 acre piece of land that has trails zig zagging all over it. Done reading and reacting to certain negative posters on this forum.

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Yoduh, from my perspective, the problem isn't that you have taken the initiative and started designing a course... rather I commend this action! The problem is the fact that you and Jeff did it without allowing local disc golfers any input whatsoever.

minor example: Many of us like the idea of a 27 hole course.

I have heard you complain that the SDGA has lost sight of local disc golf... you took control of a project many of us were excited about, donned your course designer blinders, and left us golfers feeling further removed than before.

At this point, I just see a Giant Pissing Contest with Spokane area disc golfers acting as the urinal.

I hope we can all work to make Spokane Disc Golf the best possible scene it can be.
I am trying my best to keep this in the forefront of my mind and I ask everyone to consider doing the same.

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The issue isn't the relative merit of the proposed courses, it is that Jeff has sought no input
from the Club he was elected to serve.
The SDGA did not elect a Dictator, we elected a Steward to work with an executive board and voting membership.
Jeff was not elected to unilaterally decide for us.

Jaymie Crafts

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It seems to me the project is moving forward without completing the process.
It seems that one group has submitted a design alone. No other concepts were solicited.
It seems one group has taken it upon themselves to decide in favor of the only design submitted
and then started the process of installing holes at the Sekani site.

It seems to me this oversight can be readily addressed if two things happen

all work at the Sekani site needs to cease immediately

the process needs to start.

solicit design concepts to submit to the Facalites Coordinator who will

set deadline for submissions

chair review process for decision making purposes

actually start final installation

It seems that any effort put forth (past the basic marking of the potential holes) is wasted effort and could actually adversely effect the current relationship with the Spokane P/R

It also seems that no matter what the club will be involved when it comes time to write the check.

As the sagey tomw would suggest."Might as well have it be on good terms then adversarial tones"

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I have played the Jamboree course and the gold course twice now and I see both the awesome and the terrible.

In my opinion, I think that a 27 hole with two tees and two pin locations for each hole would be a much more worthwhile investment for disc golf in Spokane. With 27 and two pads, you could make a Gold and Am course without having to force the player to play some, excuse my french, shitty holes.

For example, the gold course has a few holes that seem very forced just to make a second 18. Then again, there are some holes up there that are beyond cool and difficult. I hated 5 the first time around and now I'm on board with it. Even though it's a potential danger because you can't see the bikers on the bottom trail before you make the up hill drive. The second par 4 that plays up the hill (7 or 8 I think) is the best hole on the course. It's fair to both hands, it's difficult if you try to play the giant drive. It's not in danger of knocking anybody out thats on a bike.

The bottom line in this rant. I think that the 27 hole layout would be a better option. You could get a better use of the property, not play so many holes that feel forced and generally have a world class course that draws people to play it. That is, if you make a 27 that has multiple options. I would rather see this course take a year or more to get right then make it in 6 months and spend the next 5 years bitching about it.

P.S. Jeremy, I thought you hated thumber holes :P There are so many holes on the gold course that are thumbers if you have the arm for it.

-Stuart-

"Honest work is for the downtrodden and the Polish"
Cleveland Brown

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Where; The old Season Ticket or the new Tailgater (in front of Value Village)
When; Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 7:00 pm
Why; Talk about the new property at Camp Sekani
What would you as an SDGA Member like to see at Camp Sekani?

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I have played the Jamboree course and the gold course twice now and I see both the awesome and the terrible.

In my opinion, I think that a 27 hole with two tees and two pin locations for each hole would be a much more worthwhile investment for disc golf in Spokane. With 27 and two pads, you could make a Gold and Am course without having to force the player to play some, excuse my french, shitty holes.

For example, the gold course has a few holes that seem very forced just to make a second 18. Then again, there are some holes up there that are beyond cool and difficult. I hated 5 the first time around and now I'm on board with it. Even though it's a potential danger because you can't see the bikers on the bottom trail before you make the up hill drive. The second par 4 that plays up the hill (7 or 8 I think) is the best hole on the course. It's fair to both hands, it's difficult if you try to play the giant drive. It's not in danger of knocking anybody out thats on a bike.

The bottom line in this rant. I think that the 27 hole layout would be a better option. You could get a better use of the property, not play so many holes that feel forced and generally have a world class course that draws people to play it. That is, if you make a 27 that has multiple options. I would rather see this course take a year or more to get right then make it in 6 months and spend the next 5 years bitching about it.

P.S. Jeremy, I thought you hated thumber holes :P There are so many holes on the gold course that are thumbers if you have the arm for it.

-Stuart-

I can easily disagree with a 27 hole course being the best option. The reasoning behind that disagreement is because the city see's exactly what you see. The reason I designed the course the way I did. They have been opening up new land for us to use. By putting their bike trails in danger we have successfully lobbied to get different unused chunks of land to use for our course. See if you only take what your given and you don;t ask for more than that's all you get. Our members on this forum only see what's directly in their face and do not see the big picture. Nothing has been set in any kind of stone but people are freaking out as if it were. This whole process is about relationships and communication and feedback from the bikers mostly.. Just calm yourselves golfers. There is a method being used here and I promise you it's all worth it in the end..

SO if hole 9 is your favorite Were there any other good holes, or not so good.. Here's my favorites.. hole 1, hole 5, hole 9, HOLE12!!! hole 14, HOLE 15!!! HOLE 18!!! If you don't like the holes with the exclamations than I'm a little concerned

As far as thumbers are concerned I try to design them out of every hole but it is nearly impossible.. If the shot is the shot than I'm not going to make it a worse hole just to get rid of a thumber.. But with that in mind you do realize that the thumbers that are on the course are for people that can REALLY throw one, no cheapies..

SO on to this last minute club meeting I love the fact that everybody needs to waste their gas and time to run to a meeting that takes place 2 days before a club event. A 1 round club event that will be over about 2:30 with plenty of time to talk about what people think after they have made an informed decision. This goes right along with having candidates do a speech about what they will do if elected RIGHT AFTER everybody votes. I LOVE MANIPULATION!!!!!!!!

Last edited by Yoduh; November 15th, 2011, 09:54 AM.
Reason: SPwlling, needed to creat a paragraph

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There are 2 main reasons why two 18 holes are advantagous to our cause. The first is for tournaments. We can play two rounds in one day and allow more golfers to participate. The second is for rec play. Having a world class hilly course will keep a lot of rec players away. It will allow the more serious players a place to throw without the strollers and and the folfers. It's a place where they will get discouraged and head back down the hill in some instances. Should make for a bit more of an exclusive place to play in the city..

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I will agree with the two 18's make for a better tournament layout. Still would like to see multiple pads per hole though on each of the 18's. No reason there couldn't be two gold courses in one location. 18 is awesome on both layouts.