Comments on Forget burkas - Christianity's the faith that is really under siegeTypePad2018-08-11T23:04:38ZDMhttps://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/tag:typepad.com,2003:https://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2018/08/forget-burkas-christianitys-the-faith-that-is-really-under-siege/comments/atom.xml/Peter Starr commented on 'Forget burkas - Christianity's the faith that is really under siege'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c565553ef022ad38af2fb200d2018-08-21T11:58:33Z2018-08-22T08:07:05ZPeter StarrThucydides, who should call himself Dionysius Syracusis because he approves of sacking people over nothing, repeats Mr B[lob]’s claim that...<p>Thucydides, who should call himself Dionysius Syracusis because he approves of sacking people over nothing, repeats Mr B[lob]’s claim that I “failed to address the point that Miss Kuteh abused her professional position by telling a vulnerable patient that his chances of recovery would improve were he to pray or… go to church”. </p>
<p>Let me make myself clear. If I were the doctor on that ward and some whimpering patient came running to me with complaints against his nurse the conversation would go like something this:</p>
<p>Patient: Doctor, doctor, Nurse Kuteh has been talking to me about prayer. She says it works.<br />
Dr. Starr: Dear me, my friend. In doing this, did this experienced and hard-working nurse neglect to fill in the questionnaire?<br />
Patient: No. But doctor, she gave me a Bible.<br />
Dr. Starr: Dear me. Did she hit you with it? Perhaps you are terribly bruised?<br />
Patient: No. But I want you to register my complaint.<br />
Dr. Starr: Listen, I realise that a period in hospital can turn you into an institutionalized wet blanket, but not even disease excuses you from civilized behaviour. Have you no sense of gratitude for the work of Nurse Kuteh and others? Now, get back to bed and let there be no more complaining. <br />
Dr. Starr (to Nurse Ratched): If I hear any more of this the pack of you will have more than adenomatous polyps to worry about.</p>
<p>Fortunately the NHS still has such characterful doctors.</p>Thucydides commented on 'Forget burkas - Christianity's the faith that is really under siege'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c565553ef022ad3aa6e68200b2018-08-20T16:02:29Z2018-08-21T08:06:54ZThucydides @Peter Starr, For clarity, the points that you still have not responded to were put to you most recently by...<p>@Peter Starr,</p>
<p>For clarity, the points that you still have not responded to were put to you most recently by Mr B on 16 August at 9.35 am.</p>
<p>‘You have alleged that patients &#39;conspired&#39; against Sarah Kuteh, (the meaning of that word is obvious) but can produce no evidence to support your suggestion. You have failed to address the point that Miss Kuteh abused her professional position by telling a vulnerable patient that his chances of recovery would improve were he to pray or saying to another patient that he should go to church, when whether that person does or not is none of her business and is unrelated to the treatment she was supposed to provide.’</p>
<p> Somehow I’m not now holding my breath.</p>Peter Starr commented on 'Forget burkas - Christianity's the faith that is really under siege'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c565553ef022ad3aa612c200b2018-08-20T13:10:01Z2018-08-20T13:10:01ZPeter StarrTo Thucydides, who writes: "But how can you use the word ‘conspire’ in a figurative sense in this context? I...<p>To Thucydides, who writes: &quot;But how can you use the word ‘conspire’ in a figurative sense in this context? I suspect that you’re just trying to row back on what you wrote.&quot; </p>
<p>Read what I wrote to Mr B[lob]. I have pointed out (twice) that I did not use &#39;conspire&#39; in a figurative way, but properly (a grammatical term, meaning literally). You are telling me to &#39;row back&#39; on Mr B[lob]&#39;s mistake. </p>
<p>Your first comment, accusing me of being unresponsive, was equally irrational. Mr B[lob], in his pedestrian way, asked me to use a definition of conspiracy. I provided one from Webster. He asked me to show how there was secrecy, and an intent to harm. I did. Ηὐλήσαμεν ὑμῖν καὶ οὐκ ὠρχήσασθε· ἐθρηνήσαμεν καὶ οὐκ ἐκόψασθε.</p>Thucydides commented on 'Forget burkas - Christianity's the faith that is really under siege'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c565553ef022ad38aabf6200d2018-08-20T11:50:18Z2018-08-20T11:50:18ZThucydides @Peter Starr, Actually I have a good degree in classics from one of the best universities in the world, so...<p>@Peter Starr,</p>
<p>Actually I have a good degree in classics from one of the best universities in the world, so I’m not too bothered by your attempt to denigrate me.</p>
<p>Anyway, as I said I have not come across this particular use of ‘tropical’ before, although I could work out what you meant. But how can you use the word ‘conspire’ in a figurative sense in this context? I suspect that you’re just trying to row back on what you wrote. And I note that you still have not responded, as far as I can see, to Mr B’s points.</p>
<p>(Feel free to respond in Latin or Franglais, as you wish.)</p>Toto commented on 'Forget burkas - Christianity's the faith that is really under siege'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c565553ef022ad38aa813200d2018-08-20T09:54:08Z2018-08-20T09:54:08ZTotoEvery civilisation on Earth has been founded on a religion. Sometimes, on a mix of religions, like the Chinese one....<p>Every civilisation on Earth has been founded on a religion. Sometimes, on a mix of religions, like the Chinese one. When the founding religion is destroyed, the whole civilisation falls down like a house of cards. This religion is central to every civilisation&#39;s and every nation&#39;s identity.</p>
<p>All the attempts to found a civilisation on a materialist ideology have brought about enormous suffering and failed. The Soviet Union managed to survive for about 70 years - a very short time by historical standards - propped up by the remains of Christian ethics clumsily integrated into the &#39;Moral Code of the Communist&#39;, but when the spiritual heritage of Orthodox Russia was exhausted, it fell apart, although it had a huge arsenal, a big army, lots of clever scientists and big deposits of oil, gas, coal, gold and diamonds. And let us not forget that the building of the proud Soviet power required killing, imprisoning, robbing and enslaving several million people.</p>
<p>The 1789 French revolution also tried to build a materialist State, persecuted the Catholic Church (on which the French civilisation was based) and was intended to establish a reign of liberty, equality and fraternity. It succeeded in killing in a few years more people than the Inquistion managed to execute over the several centuries of its existence, it brought enormous suffering to the French people and ended up in the Napoleonic dictatorship with its megalomaniac wars that devastated a great number of countries. The final result was a national humiliation for France. The Catholic Church remained the basis of the French nation until the recent decades, the modern times, which have been rightly characterised by Eric Zemmour as &#39;Le suicide français&#39;.</p>
<p>The most striking example of atheism in power is, of course, the Kampuchea of the Khmer Rouge. Those atheist revolutionaries turned their country into a vast concentration camp and destroyed its Buddhist culture.</p>
<p>The only atheist success story seems to be China, but for how long and at what price? And what Briton in his right senses would care to become a national of China?</p>
<p>Modern day Britain and Europe seem to be obsessed with a civilisational death wish. They are industriously dismantling the foundation of their ancestral home, of this cozy and beautiful house their forefathers built. In their delusion, they believe that this destruction would somehow bring about a paradise on earth. But it will bring nothing but utmost misery and horror.</p>Mrs.B. commented on 'Forget burkas - Christianity's the faith that is really under siege'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c565553ef022ad38aa5e4200d2018-08-20T09:04:16Z2018-08-20T09:04:16ZMrs.B.Alan Thomas I suspect my grandchildren, in fact I know, my grandchildren were not party to writing long essays at...<p>Alan Thomas<br />
I suspect my grandchildren, in fact I know, my grandchildren were not party to writing long essays at school as I or grandad were.<br />
In fact I&#39;m often asked how to spell, instead of spellcheck.<br />
Although age makes me question myself more and more.<br />
Looking up things on the internet is easier than pouring over books and in my experience, &quot;Is that all you are expected to write&quot; has been heard coming from my lips in their later school years.<br />
Homework on different, on drugs though. Different times.</p>Mrs.B. commented on 'Forget burkas - Christianity's the faith that is really under siege'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c565553ef022ad3647b54200c2018-08-20T08:54:52Z2018-08-20T09:00:55ZMrs.B.Alan Thomas Sublety and humour usually works. Have you noticed that so many young are weekend vistors to distant parents...<p>Alan Thomas<br />
Sublety and humour usually works. Have you noticed that so many young are weekend vistors to distant parents as I and friends do that practicality is not as high.<br />
I saw a young couple struggling to change a tyre, so duly sent out hubby, the couple about my grand children&#39;s age.<br />
We had a smile when he came back and the young lad was amazed at his knowledge on wheel nut covers. <br />
Lots of thanks from them which was nice, but I think between not having a role model at home and being good at the old phone, etc., is leading to a less practical generation.<br />
I&#39;m hearing as well as understanding a lot of grandparents are filling in that role. <br />
I do no different than my parents, heated debates often on lots of subjects, then dinner.<br />
All done until the next time.<br />
They have very definite ideas and it&#39;s their learning curve like ours was! <br />
Having someone who you know will not bring good things to the family is different.<br />
I&#39;m afraid in conversation with others of my acquaintance it&#39;s an unwelome strain and one that may put strain on them too.<br />
</p>Mike B commented on 'Forget burkas - Christianity's the faith that is really under siege'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c565553ef022ad38aa49b200d2018-08-20T08:14:42Z2018-08-20T09:00:55ZMike B@Peter Starr 18th August at 03:55 So, Mr Starr indulges us with French, Greek and Latin. Shame about the English.<p>@Peter Starr 18th August at 03:55</p>
<p>So, Mr Starr indulges us with French, Greek and Latin.</p>
<p>Shame about the English.</p>Alan Thomas commented on 'Forget burkas - Christianity's the faith that is really under siege'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c565553ef022ad38aa276200d2018-08-20T06:56:36Z2018-08-20T07:47:13ZAlan ThomasMrs B The job of being a grandparent is not an easy one (see the many do's and don'ts articles...<p>Mrs B</p>
<p>The job of being a grandparent is not an easy one (see the many do&#39;s and don&#39;ts articles available online), particularly when they become teenagers or young adults. It&#39;s quite easy to create rifts between the g-children and their parents, one of whom is, of course, an incomer to the family group, and might not share ones views or values. </p>
<p>Perhaps the most difficult barrier between &#39;them and us&#39; is modern technology and life-style changes in general. The only thing I do know about such subjects is that too much banging on about &#39;then and now&#39; can easily lead to unforeseen consequences. </p>CaliforniaBill commented on 'Forget burkas - Christianity's the faith that is really under siege'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c565553ef022ad3aa35fb200b2018-08-19T20:13:14Z2018-08-20T07:47:14ZCaliforniaBillIsn't it curious that somehow in the aftermath of yet another high school massacre, this time in Parkland, Florida, the...<p>Isn&#39;t it curious that somehow in the aftermath of yet another high school massacre, this time in Parkland, Florida, the national media forgot to inquire whether or not the alleged perpetrator, Nikolas Cruz, used drugs. Maybe they were so obsessed with gun control at the time they forgot to ask the most obvious questions of all to anybody who might know: &quot;Was there a history of drug use? Did Cruz use marijuana&quot;.</p>
<p>Now finally we have the information from Cruz himself! And not surprisingly, Cruz did abuse &quot;a lot&quot; of marijuana, whereupon he began to in his words &quot;hear demons&quot; that told him to &quot;kill and destroy.&quot;</p>
<p>So where on earth are the international outcries? Mind-altering drugs can and do alter minds beyond the temporary intoxication. It&#39;s really that simple. Cruz abused a lot of marijuana, his already vulnerable mind became so delusional that he heard demons, and those demons in his mind prompted him to go kill seventeen people. If he had not used marijuana, and had society not been so supportive and liberally permissive for those to indulge in marijuana (illegally as it turns out), this horror that shocked the world and which devastated so many lives would probably have never happened.</p>Alan Thomas commented on 'Forget burkas - Christianity's the faith that is really under siege'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c565553ef022ad38a87ad200d2018-08-19T18:39:38Z2018-08-20T07:47:14ZAlan ThomasCrikey, Mrs B, two early morning posts that will keep my head spinning from now till snoozy-time. I can only...<p>Crikey, Mrs B, two early morning posts that will keep my head spinning from now till snoozy-time. </p>
<p>I can only hope your three grandchildren are not obliged to read them first thing in the morning!</p>Ewan Maclean commented on 'Forget burkas - Christianity's the faith that is really under siege'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c565553ef022ad3aa2323200b2018-08-19T13:06:02Z2018-08-19T13:06:02ZEwan MacleanI was having a civilised conversation with Mark Blades. My last two attempts to respond to his latest have not...<p>I was having a civilised conversation with Mark Blades. My last two attempts to respond to his latest have not appeared. Have I broken one of the rules (not for the first time)?</p>Mike B commented on 'Forget burkas - Christianity's the faith that is really under siege'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c565553ef022ad38a7344200d2018-08-19T10:44:40Z2018-08-19T10:44:40ZMike B@Mark Blades So, the patient was not 'more likely' to recover, but 'had a better chance of survival', if he...<p>@Mark Blades</p>
<p>So, the patient was not &#39;more likely&#39; to recover, but &#39;had a better chance of survival&#39;, if he prayed. Despite your protestations, there is no essential difference between the two phrases and your resort to nitpicking demonstrates the feeble nature of your argument.</p>
<p>Sarah Kuteh stepped outside her professional boundaries, conflated her medical duties with her personal faith and received a justified sanction, which she should consider herself lucky to have been overturned.</p>Mrs.B. commented on 'Forget burkas - Christianity's the faith that is really under siege'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c565553ef022ad3aa1ae9200b2018-08-19T08:08:17Z2018-08-19T08:08:17ZMrs.B." I say a little Prayer for you". The moment I wake up, before I put on my make up,...<p>&quot; I say a little Prayer for you&quot;. The moment I wake up, before I put on my make up, I say a ilttle prayer for you. I run for the bus dear while thinking of us dear, I say a little prayer for you.&quot; Aretha Franklin. <br />
Danced with mum around our living room, as did her grand daughters.<br />
It doesnt seem so long ago those days when we prayed and sang hymns at school and Sunday school.<br />
Commentators saying they never knew about her harder extraordinary young life.She didnt broadcast it. She concentrated on her strength singing. Her voice and lyrics gave you a clue.</p>
<p>Madonna, Like a Prayer, Papa don&#39;t preach. Lyrics of teenage pregnancy life played out in news.<br />
I was always taught, &quot;God, please give me the strength to deal with what life gives you to deal with &quot;. <br />
I&#39;m not on any pills. We see the rise jn pill taking to cope with such anxiousness today.<br />
Inner strength is a powerful thing.<br />
Pills often are a crutch and you can be dependent on them. The problems are still there. <br />
You can&#39;t expect God to fix or change things, you can ask for strength.<br />
Powerful thing.<br />
I&#39;m of the 60&#39;s when we all knew &quot; The Lord&#39;s Prayer&quot;. Sadly I go to too many funerals. I dont go to Church now. <br />
I have in life and loss asked God give me strength. It works for me.<br />
That lady was tasked to ask about which faith people were. <br />
What has happened that we have to have panels and tribunals that people can&#39;t speak up for themselves. <br />
That&#39;s a course to popping pills if ever I heard one.<br />
As a female I was taught by my parents to stand up for myself. It seems today people are happier if we all think we are victims s of something or some slight.</p>
<p>That someone needs to tell us we need a well paid panel to tell us we are victims. Rather than being taught to deal with it in the moment. <br />
&quot; No thanks I don&#39;t need a prayer. Why woukd it be such a heinous crime for her to have given her own bible rather than the on by a bedside. Nitpicking.<br />
Always a bible when hubby went to training school.<br />
He didn&#39;t have to pick it up. I&#39;m sure he didn&#39;t. </p>Mrs.B. commented on 'Forget burkas - Christianity's the faith that is really under siege'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c565553ef022ad3644349200c2018-08-19T06:56:47Z2018-08-19T07:33:02ZMrs.B.Alan Thomas As I have grandchildren in their 20's one thing I can do is try and make them see...<p>Alan Thomas<br />
As I have grandchildren in their 20&#39;s one thing I can do is try and make them see that this generation is being fed a load of vacouus celebrity nonsense.<br />
We buy the weekend paper but look online during week, usually.<br />
The online headlines appear to me to be edited by one of todays young generation, while newspaper readers, possibly the older generation get more grown up stuff, except for what usdd to be called, &quot;news and screws&quot; when I was growing up.<br />
I tell them to look beyond the rubbish they are fed, after of course they realise they might be watching rubbish.<br />
Take sporting characters of today, behaving like overgrown schoolchildren, with more money than they can spend, who have grown up in a society that saw Mr. Blair encourage them to a 24 drink culture, that for too long has seen, instead of implementing the law on drunk and disorderly and holding licencees to account, today&#39;s police officers directed to handing out blankets and the amount of drink consumed means no cell, but A&amp;E.<br />
No doubt we will be discussing that. I probably best not write what their grandad will think of today&#39;s law and order, or the miscreants.<br />
It will be lively, I&#39;m sure.<br />
Society and media encourages lack of responsibility, drunkeness and are in total opposite to those who see the big money, profitability, that ends up blighting lives.<br />
Far better messages in my day of Aretha Franklin, rather than the tawdry era of Maddona where as a mum, you could see the celebrity promotion really taking hold. <br />
Once that little box in the corner, when it came in sat right, in balance.<br />
Now, it dumbs down as the balance and power has shifted to the box having downmarket news and screws, feeding it&#39;s values in.<br />
I like to do my little bit to educate those I care about, the changing values to those who are being given rubbish messages. <br />
Angelina, isn&#39;t she Lorld Hague&#39;s chum? MP&#39;s and celebrities, They help each other. <br />
I see another family of children caught up in limelight as private stuff is slugged out in front of them. <br />
Meanwhile, 15 year olds are being treated for serious diembowlement injuries by officers as young have no idea of actions ans consequences. <br />
Part of parenting shoukd be policing, but the box in the corner, shows them a different set of values more often now and unsuitable role models. </p>Ewan Maclean commented on 'Forget burkas - Christianity's the faith that is really under siege'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c565553ef022ad3a9fc64200b2018-08-18T16:54:45Z2018-08-19T00:00:13ZEwan MacleanMark Blades | 18 August 2018 at 09:50 AM I did reply, but it did not appear. It was to...<p>Mark Blades | 18 August 2018 at 09:50 AM</p>
<p>I did reply, but it did not appear. It was to say that I hadn&#39;t read your previous comment carefully enough. It answered my question: Prof. Brown draws on ‘’data from Pentecostal and Charismatic Christians&quot;.</p>
<p>The findings are therefore of interest (and I think have been replicated) but won&#39;t do as evidence that just any patient will benefit. Faith is a prerequisite (as Jesus himself made clear). Indeed, not only do some with great faith suffer, some with no faith recover. Those with great faith might wonder why it is that not all who pray sincerely have their prayer answered (while some do). Those with no faith might wonder why they should be bothered as they prepare themselves for surgery. Both might point out that the placebo effect at least does not discriminate, whereas the power of prayer requires faith and even then the response is fickle.</p>
<p>I am puzzled by the distinction you make between &quot;more likely to recover&quot; and a &quot;better chance of survival&quot;. The only substantive difference I can see is that &quot;survival&quot; might be construed as less positive than &quot;recovery&quot;. Otherwise the two are surely practically interchangeable.</p>
<p>The effects of a patient&#39;s &quot;attitude&quot; are very hard to determine or predict. I know that members of the medical profession say that in their experience those with a good attitude tend to put more into their recuperation. I also know that they say the obligatory vow to &quot;fight&quot; a cancer, for example, can prove detrimental when it causes a patient to postpone serious consideration of their death - by insisting on &quot;fighting&quot; they are burdened with treatments that make death more difficult. On the other hand, it is clear that stress and depression are associated with inflammation, and inflammation can provide the environment for rogue cells to prosper... It&#39;s complicated is surely the only conclusion we can draw just now.</p>
<p>For someone of faith, I would have thought, prayer is a help whether there is a cure or not. For someone without, the injunction to pray may be taken as an imposition kindly meant, or an irritant. If the answer to the question is &quot;no religion&quot;, it is not the time, I would suggest, to proselytise (however good and understandable the motive).</p>
<p> </p>Peter Starr commented on 'Forget burkas - Christianity's the faith that is really under siege'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c565553ef022ad38a498f200d2018-08-18T14:55:29Z2018-08-19T00:00:14ZPeter StarrThucydides writes: "I have never come across the concept of using words ‘tropically’." Then Thucydides has forgotten his Greek, for...<p>Thucydides writes: &quot;I have never come across the concept of using words ‘tropically’.&quot; </p>
<p>Then Thucydides has forgotten his Greek, for τροπική is a grammatical term. We may say instead, basing ourselves on Latin, sensus figurativus (figurative meaning).</p>
<p>These people don&#39;t know the grammar that every schoolboy used to know. As grammar is necessary for logic, how can I be surprised when The Blob doesn&#39;t recognise when I have answered it repeatedly? </p>
<p>And he calls himself Thucydides! Quantum mutatus ab illo!</p>Mark Blades commented on 'Forget burkas - Christianity's the faith that is really under siege'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c565553ef022ad3a9f5e0200b2018-08-18T14:04:53Z2018-08-19T00:00:14ZMark Blades‘Mike B' at 12.48, the18th asks, ‘’Do you really suggest that Sarah Kuteh had a right to give the advice...<p>‘Mike B&#39; at 12.48, the18th asks, ‘’Do you really suggest that Sarah Kuteh had a right to give the advice she gave to a cancer stricken patient based on *that*? ‘’</p>
<p>Sarah’s right to give that advice is not based on that research or any other research.<br />
Sarah had and has the right to talk to others about faith and religion because her work involved discussing religion with her patients.</p>
<p>As to whether or not she has the ‘right’ to say to patients that prayer can improve the odds of recovery I say she does, based on the research I’ve uncovered and on my own experience of being healed through being prayed for. </p>
<p>And as a supplement to my own post, yesterday, 17 August 2018 at 02:17 PM, where I cast a doubt as to whether or not Sarah Kuteh really did say that a patient would be &#39;&#39;more likely to recover if he prayed’’, I would like to refer ‘Mike B’ to a newspaper article, which he referenced himself as a source for his ‘two warnings for Sarah’ assertion previously.</p>
<p>The Independent, dated 1 April 2017, reports, in its headline no less, that Sarah Kuteh did not say the patient concerned was ‘more likely’ to recover if he prayed but that she told him that he had ‘a better chance of survival’ if he prayed. <br />
<br />
Anyway, ‘Mike B’ may think that his own phrase, ‘more likely’ to recover to be equivalent in meaning to ‘a better chance of recovery’ but I disagree. If one is sick with cancer I would imagine the odds on a recovery to be dependent on a number of factors, including the patient’s own attitude to his sickness, even with all that modern medicine has at its disposal. </p>
<p>If a nurse informs a patient that, if he prays, he has a better chance of recovery, then the nurse is just giving him hope, and how can it be wrong for a medical practitioner to say that? In contrast, to say he would be ‘more likely’ to recover, expresses a stronger certainty which may lead to false hope and that would be wrong, and, of course, if Sarah used those words then they could support ‘Mike B’s argument as to the ‘appropriateness’ of Sarah Kuteh’s sacking. I suggest that is why he used them.</p>
<p>He writes of my calling him a God-hater, as if it’s not true when he calls people who follow Christ, ‘religious nutters. He says I’m suspicious of his motives as if they are unfounded suspicions when his evident desire to paint one of God’s children, Sarah Kuteh, in as black a way as he possibly can is my evidence as to his malice. </p>
<p>So, that’s what I think but what, I wonder, does ‘Mike B’ himself have to say about it? Come on, ‘Mike B’. ‘’Don&#39;t be coy: confound, dumbfound and flabbergast us’’ by admitting you made a mistake in using the phrase ‘more likely’ and retract it.<br />
</p>Ewan Maclean commented on 'Forget burkas - Christianity's the faith that is really under siege'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c565553ef022ad3a9f13a200b2018-08-18T11:53:17Z2018-08-19T00:00:14ZEwan MacleanMark Blades | 18 August 2018 at 09:50 AM I didn't read your previous comment carefully enough. You quote Prof....<p>Mark Blades | 18 August 2018 at 09:50 AM</p>
<p>I didn&#39;t read your previous comment carefully enough. You quote Prof. Brown answering my question: &quot;’Drawing on data from Pentecostal and Charismatic Christians,..&quot;</p>
<p>She would have to look at a more heterogeneous population for her findings to be relevant to other than the faithful.</p>
<p>I think there have been other such studies with similar results. The effect is small (the faithful suffer with the rest of us) and it is not clear why some benefit and others don&#39;t whose faith and trust in the efficacy of prayer appear equally fervent (as far as anyone can tell from the outside).</p>
<p>Similarly, there are studies that show living within a faith can be beneficial to one&#39;s health and happiness (as a byproduct of.its proper purpose). As someone brought up in the Kirk, I can tell you that this does not apply to all faiths.</p>
<p>What you say does not, I think, answer MikeB&#39;s point about professional ethics. I don&#39;t know the details of the particular case Mr. Hitchens highlights, so won&#39;t pretend to comment on it.</p>
<p>Thank you for replying to my question. Neither it nor this comment is intended to imply that I am any better placed than you (you might argue worse) to determine the efficacy of faith and prayer.</p>Mike B commented on 'Forget burkas - Christianity's the faith that is really under siege'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c565553ef022ad3a9f101200b2018-08-18T11:48:18Z2018-08-19T00:00:14ZMike B@Mark Blades You have made various points in a number of posts. To answer them all fully would probably mean...<p>@Mark Blades</p>
<p>You have made various points in a number of posts. To answer them all fully would probably mean exceeding the word limit, but I shall try to answer what seem the most relevant.</p>
<p>Regarding the number of warnings which Sarah Kuteh received, there is an ACAS template which employers are required to follow, and which includes a meeting with an employee to discuss his/her perceived failings and recommend corrective action, prior to a first official and written warning being issued. A second written warning is then required, before dismissal. Some backstreet, twopenny halfpenny firms might not follow this procedure, but the idea that a Health Trust would not, beggars belief. </p>
<p>So, your Biblical quotations against me on this point and your allegation of &#39;evil surmising&#39; amount to nothing more than puffed up ignorance of the matter Forget Timothy 6:4: Think Shakespeare, The Merchant of Venice, Act 1 Scene 3:</p>
<p>&quot;The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose<br />
An evil soul producing holy witness.<br />
Is like a villain with a smiling cheek<br />
A goodly apple rotten at the heart<br />
O, what a goodly outside falsehood hath!&quot;</p>
<p>Sound like anyone you know, Mark Blades? I doubt you&#39;ll be able to see it. </p>
<p>Your talk of &#39;God haters&quot; and your suspicion of my motives is all of one with a dogmatist&#39;s refusal to countenance that others may honestly hold different views to him and stems from indoctrination.</p>
<p>As to your &#39;evidence&#39; that praying has been shown to assist healing, it beggars belief. Apparently, it &quot;draws on data from Pentecostal and Charismatic Christians&quot;. So, no question of these people being &quot;partis pris&quot;, then? It emanates from &quot;an Associate Professor, Department of Religious Studies, and Adjunct Associate Professor, American Studies&quot;. Clearly, highly qualified medical and scientific practitioners. How is it possible to argue with these conclusions?</p>
<p>Do you really suggest that Sarah Kuteh had a right to give the advice she gave to a cancer stricken patient based on *that*? </p>
<p>Really, Mr Blades, as the saying goes &quot;get real&quot;. </p>Mark Blades commented on 'Forget burkas - Christianity's the faith that is really under siege'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c565553ef022ad3a9ecd0200b2018-08-18T08:50:10Z2018-08-18T09:08:16ZMark BladesEwan Maclean,17 August, at 06:14 PM, asks me if the research I referenced regarding measurable beneficial effects of prayer include...<p>Ewan Maclean,17 August, at 06:14 PM, asks me if the research I referenced regarding measurable beneficial effects of prayer include &#39;the non-religious invited to pray for themselves, or prayed for by some religious group&#39;&#39;. The short answer is, &#39;&#39;I don&#39;t know&#39;&#39;. But, on the Professor&#39;s blog, she writes,</p>
<p>&#39;&#39;In one set of surveys I carried out, 72 percent of respondents had a current need for healing; the most common complaint was pain. Fifty-two percent reported healing. Those who self-reported high faith were no more likely to experience healing than those who admitted weak faith.’’ </p>
<p>It&#39;s only a guess, but I would imagine that, if Sarah Kuteh&#39;s patient had acted upon her exhortation to pray, then he might be considered to be of &#39;weak faith&#39; just by doing it.</p>
<p>As to the other part of your question, I&#39;m afraid I don&#39;t know the answer to that but I&#39;d just like to add this: I&#39;m a believer in God and His Son, Jesus Christ, but it doesn&#39;t, automatically, mean that I, at all times, can believe that God will, without doubt, answer my prayers, or other people&#39;s prayers, on my behalf and that is, for me, especially true when I&#39;m sick. My pain can &#39;shout down&#39; my faith.</p>
<p>I remember once putting my hard contact lenses into my eyes and, instead of using the correct solution to aid insertion I used the cleaning fluid. (this was in the day when all-in-one solutions weren&#39;t available). Anyway, I was in agony but, stupidly, I continued wearing them and went out for the night. </p>
<p>The next day, a Sunday, when I opened my eyes, I couldn&#39;t focus properly and if I tried to, it was very painful. I decided to go to hospital. The church I attended at that time was next to the bus stop for the hospital so, instead of waiting at the stop I went in to the church for the morning service. I was just sitting there, not taking part, when the minister noted my distress. He asked me if I wanted prayer. I said, &#39;&#39;OK&#39; but, to be truly honest, I didn&#39;t really expect much. My &#39;faith&#39; such as it was, consisted only in allowing others to pray for me. </p>
<p>Anyway, to cut a long story short, after the minister and three of the elders of the church had finished praying for me, I was healed. My eyes had stopped watering, and I was able to focus on things for more than a few seconds and was able to bear looking at light, things which were impossible for me only about 10 minutes previously. I didn&#39;t need to go to hospital.</p>
<p>The healing happened, I think, because of God&#39;s answering a prayer of faith offered by one or all of the elders of that church. My only &#39;contribution&#39; to that was to allow them to do so. The Bible endorses my statement. James 5 v 14. Check it yourself. </p>Alan Thomas commented on 'Forget burkas - Christianity's the faith that is really under siege'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c565553ef022ad38a3e8a200d2018-08-18T08:47:15Z2018-08-18T09:08:16ZAlan ThomasMrs B Just to add, if you're fed up with royal tittle-tattle, I would imagine you're just as fed up...<p>Mrs B</p>
<p>Just to add, if you&#39;re fed up with royal tittle-tattle, I would imagine you&#39;re just as fed up with the celebrity variety. Today&#39;s front page of the paper, that you often quote to us, boldly greets its readers with hot news concerning Angelina and Brad&#39;s toxic divorce.</p>
<p><br />
Somefing out&#39;a be dun abowt it! I trust you&#39;ll be sending a scolding letter... </p>Mrs.B. commented on 'Forget burkas - Christianity's the faith that is really under siege'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c565553ef022ad3a9ebdd200b2018-08-18T08:17:36Z2018-08-18T09:08:16ZMrs.B.Alan Thomas I must admit it's my husband who likes looking out old music clips on you tube, but it...<p>Alan Thomas<br />
I must admit it&#39;s my husband who likes looking out old music clips on you tube, but it is handy when you can remember holier than though politicians comments and old Daily Politics and even views of Hillary Clinton on issues that saw a change of mind after 2002.<br />
Or hunting up old clips of those innocent 50/ 60&#39;s children&#39;s,&quot; Watch with Mother&quot; clips. Thanks to a nudge from an article by PH.<br />
My husband found an old clip of Peter Shore&#39;s Oxford Union Address, speech against joining Common Market.<br />
With Heath in the background. <br />
It has been the case of having to bus into town, like other femalex of varying ages I know, who don&#39;t like walking the route to town.<br />
Talk of a few pot plants, a paint up is met with a smile if that is all the councillors think will cutit!<br />
I haven&#39;t got a bus pass, like my friends who got theirs at 60. I have to wait until I&#39;m 66, thanks to Coalition government. <br />
Would have been handy in my caring role, but I guess there are more drains on topping up low wage earners in tax credits, for the large families. Or the free I cards handed out. Now that&#39;s created a problem at our local pool with certain behaviours, not usually seen. Talking to someone in the know, very illuminating.<br />
Hey ho. Still now hubby is retired he drops me off.<br />
The answers well I voted for the four freedoms. Because my rightful freedom , is becoming less and also to others as I keep learning.<br />
As your eyes age, one advantage is dust is not so noticeable. Hubby often hoovers. I like to mop but we have a steam one now. Men like gadgets. Who am I to say No. </p>Ewan Maclean commented on 'Forget burkas - Christianity's the faith that is really under siege'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c565553ef022ad363f703200c2018-08-17T17:14:10Z2018-08-17T20:04:18ZEwan Maclean@Mark Blades | 17 August 2018 at 02:17 PM Could I butt in with an interested question. Did the research...<p>@Mark Blades | 17 August 2018 at 02:17 PM</p>
<p>Could I butt in with an interested question. Did the research analyse outcomes for the religious praying for themselves and prayed for by their congregation, or did it include the non-religious invited to pray for themselves, or prayed for by some religious group, with the knowledge of the non-religious patients prayed for in one test group, and without their knowledge in another? </p>robert godfrey commented on 'Forget burkas - Christianity's the faith that is really under siege'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c565553ef022ad363f3a3200c2018-08-17T16:16:35Z2018-08-17T20:04:18Zrobert godfrey@Mark Blades, yes, she is directly aiding and abetting her pedophilia death cult, the thousands of cases of child abuse...<p>@Mark Blades, yes, she is directly aiding and abetting her pedophilia death cult, the thousands of cases of child abuse being revealed now make it clear that is all the church ever has been or ever will be, it&#39;s only purpose and desire is to enable the rape of children on an industrial scale, to pray is to be an accomplice, and nothing more, you give up all other titles and roles as soon as those vile words pass your lips.</p>