Quakecon arrives once again as is tradition at every summer’s year. The most elite Quake players from all around the world will come to Dallax, Texas for a chance to compete for $200,000 in prizepools. Be sure not to miss the best of the best playing in the 2v2 TDM Open Tournament followed by the Duel Showdown. This is also the second time ever that Quake champions is gonna be featured as the main game for the e-sports part of the event. Stay tuned for more details.

-8 Teams comprised of top 8 2v2 teams from Saturday
-Single Elimination
-Best of 1 Map
-Bracket seeds will be determined by placement in the 2v2 cup
-Players will occupy the opposite side of the bracket as their teammate

You’re missing the point though, quake is only as strong as it’s conmmunity, he does a lot for the community with his streams, shit on Bethesda and ID fine but I think you should do a little research before tearing down people who are keeping the quake community torch alive

I enjoy the esr qcon yearly shit posting thread as much as the next elderly Quaker, just wanted to distinguish between hating on a multi million dollar video game company and their choices / event production and shitting on the community that’s doing it for love of quake

Did you know that I DO NOT CARE a bit about your childish anger about me, because I consider you a complete piece of toxic garbage shit with homosexual frustrations and macro-penis? Go vent all your anger with your bear-boyfriend, who probably does not respect you and does not even pay for a drink before demanding to make love to you.

Being called a monkey is a compliment, coming from a person who is an ass-licker dog like you.

I would also like a [ - ] button on ESR for trolls haters like you that are here in a forum that has always been mostly about QUAKE and hating about a game that you do not even know the basics of how to play or understand.

94 plusses in 8 years. Your net is barely better than garz.Maybe you should try harder, or open up a dono thread for English lessons, that, if you're not .BRaindamaged too much already. I certainly feel my head hurting reading your shitposts.

You have 667 posts and only 94 +'s. Just a lil' jealous prick as I expected you to be, and I've got these juicy stats to back it up for me.
Can't handle that I'm just better than you, more creative, better looking, better at the game, more respected on ESR, probably more athletic than your skinnyjeans wearing ass too.

Judging by your age and country you're probably some old balding manlet with a porn addiction. I'd probably steal your girl if you'd ever get any, lefthanded.

Rofl mate, so who's the toxic clown with nothing proper to contribute other than some poor attempted 1/10 shitposts and puny troll attempts which make you look like a proper dork. Prolly sweatin' hard af for being the greasy nerd you are sitting in your hot unAC'd 3rd world hut being anxious about how devastating my next reply is gonna be. Sucks being a bald 33 y/o brainstuck @ age 12

Dude, do you seriously reckon with statistics on a Quake forum? Are you serious?? You're a complete dumb, man! Grow up, be a real man and go enjoy your life, even if it sucks! Do not want to aim to be popular in an internet forum.

You do not just give the feeling of shame to everyone when they see that you boast of it as a child with mental damage, but I'm sure your parents also feel this shame of you being like that.

You know what I think of all that you're proud of? A complete SHIT NOTHING! This is nothing, for me you can fill in all these statistics that you have in a games forum within your anus. I do not care and I'm sorry you're such a poor, ridiculous soul and would be hilarious if it was not tragic.

Most of the gentlemen present on this stream are available nowadays for, I am sure, at least a little bit of casting for some of the important matches. It's not that difficult but of course the organizers are uninterested in appealing to the intellect, or even the emotions, of the playerbase.

Brandan was right about Makaveli. And this Jkaplan guy has no dignity and value behind his prettyboy face. Basically acts like a 16 y/o dude when he's playing or casting Quake. Shamefur display.

These are the exact type of spineless people that mascot QC on Twitch and other online streaming platforms and the community eats out of their hands 24/7 as long as they are getting their drops and 'hello, ty for the dono <3 <3 <3' from their girl streamer they donate 50 eu a day to.

You and other WK scum here need to realise the reason they only talk to eachother and not to the girl is because the reason the girl got placed there is only because she is a girl, not because she brings some extra quality narrative or addition to the 'male' streaming crew. Same counts for most of these other female 'cummunity' streamers who use twitch as an attentionwhoring platform because they're too ugly to go big on insta or too prude to show bobs 'n vagene on camsites. So they resort to spineless beta-males on twitch who donate and sub like no tomorrow, increasing the already huge overtinderized ego's of these broads, telling them they're beautiful and special, while if you look at it rationally, they're just below average and untalented most of the time and have boring personalities.

But still you cucks spray these women with your compliments and dollars, inflating their arrogance and lacking self esteem. SO you teach these whores they don't need quality or talent to be appreciated.

Good job on the guys who do this, Who pubstomp with and worship the likes of QueenNyxPower or other girl streamers who'r too shit to duel or 2v2 TDM, basically just pre-making teams and raping noobs making them uninstall, so at the end of they day they can stroke their ego's feeling they are worth something because a classless whore gave em some attention or affirmation.

You guys are fucking clowns and should be ashamed of your antics. Be a man, grow up and start seeing things for what they really are.

No h8 to acrylicAsh, she's legitimately trying to become better at duel and has a good personality. She's authentic.

You're more basement dwellier than you think you are. Fact is that you're too blind to get the point, and the point is no matter if she's good or bad, she's no good addition to this casting crew. It's v/ apparent she got placed there because of the fact that she's a woman and there is a behind the scenes political agenda being pushed in the e-sports/gaming industry which is called feminism.

That's why you get so much LGBT influenced themes in games nowadays, and women as main protagonists in WWII games for instance. It's part of a plan and she's a pawn. The fact that she plays or played Quake and wears a blue nyx wig is a welcome bonus for the people who are arranging this, but her instrinsic value for the people who put her there is simply that she has a vagina and to get rid of the male dominant stereotypical e-sport image and scenario- empower women, abolish the male dominant stereotype!

Are you getting this or are you trying to stay pussy whipped for life, boy?

Your replies so far have been unoriginal, non-witty and tactless. You avoid depth in discussion, avoid conflict but at the same time you use terms like 'triggered' to provoke reaction out of me. It shows me you're a typical weak dude who's afraid of confrontation and likes to hide behind his anonymous online profile.

In your mind you think you're a tough guy and a victor right now because 'successful troll is succesful', exactly how your meme-based mind works.

But all I see is just another sad beta-male hiding behind his luminating screen in the dark.

You're not getting any pussy, and if you are it's payed or she's cheating on you, because you're spineless.

You're a guy who cares too much about things that really do not matter. It's ugly crying a baby because things have changed a bit and today a Quake lanpaty tournament is no longer just about virgin nerds and metal-rockers. You are a frustrated retard who refuses to evolve. Even pokémons evolve and you do not, with this decadent thought. Maybe you have a small penis or you do not have much success with women.

Who if it improves if it has a beautiful girl doing cosplay of the Nyx in the staff casters of the event?? Who fucking cares if she has credibility or not to be involved? Wake up, you BIG ASSHOLE! This is QUAKECON!!! What's right at the end of the day is our fun as an event, and the epic matches that will happen! Everyone has the right to go there and have fun, even if they are not really Quake fans or a bunch of noobs! Focus on what is improper, not on what is useless.

"When I point my penis at you to delight in seeing it, do not pay attention to my finger. Look at my cock!" (c) Bruce Lee

Literally every casting block sans 1 today had a woman in the crew and most of them were either incompetent or not nearly close to the level or personality of the male casters. And you come with this argument trying to strawman me for what?

If you disagree with me telling the truth then come with proper arguments.

Okay, I agree on the thing that there IS an agenda that wants to push more women on the face of video gaming as a whole - but you seem to think that this is a somewhat sinister thing to do. Right?

That's the point I don't agree with. Diversity is good. Feminism is good.

Plus, Bethesda clearly has a community focus here. It's not just the females that are no pro level casters, it's rather active community streamers that get some spotlight. And involving the community is always a healthy thing to do.

Yeah, I do think that as a matter of fact and I elaborated a part of it above. Feminism is bad, it divides male and female even more than before, weakens the family unit in society. Diversity just points people too much on what seperates people.

It's part of divide and conquer. Male and female have strengths and weaknesses, together they can be a team. There's a time and place for everything and everyone. Forcing people at positions and roles that don't match them is only going to cause more turmoil and degradation in the end. Let people do what they're good at regardless of roles. But this 3rd wave feminism is trying to shove female empowerment through everyones throat, putting females in places and positions they don't deserve to be, purely because of affirmative action and diversity quotas. This Quakecon is a nice example of it.

If females prove to have the required skillsets and talents and requirements to be a representative in any field, be it casting, surgery, astronomy, teaching or w/e you want to call it, sure they can have it. But if we're lowering the standards based on arbitrary 'scientifical' truths which in my opinion are rubbish and plain evil, then what you get is situations like these.

And it's happening literally everywhere, every branch of society.

It's not good, I refuse to accept it, it goes against what I believe in.

so that's all they have to do ?
just ask and they get to cast the biggest quake tournament of the year regardless of the fact that they have never casted a single smaller quake event before ?
you SJW's are unbelievable and have turned feminism from an acceptable and understandable concept into a complete farce and an actual pain in everyone's ass

and just so we're clear before you bring up the fact that there are males who have been casting today that we've never seen before : no they shouldn't be here either (that spudcunt and whoever_that_is duo has been useless for example)

now say something like that to a female caster, and u r instantly labeled as a woman hater ... no criticism allowed against the "GOOD" ... in our brave new world where diversity quotas are more important than actual merit

When it comes to a political stance of view, I agree. Any sort of quotas are evil socialistic constructs that need to be repelled.

But here, its just business. Natually, when esport events are attended in 95% by 40kg/140+kg male virgins, there's a high demand for females. Theyre just giving people what they want. Its market, not the influence of western politics.

Media are heavily influenced by politics, I have no problem agreeing with that. Whether its video games, the movies or, sigh, the news.
And I am aware that some of the worst examples in video game history when it comes to political influence, Cod WW2 and Battlefield V, have main devs strongly connected to marxism.
Et cetera.

What I'm saying here is, when you have an audience consisting almost solely of males that want to see females in this field, getting females to cast, cosplay or just stand on the stage looking good is business. Its about money, you want those people to attend/watch your events again.

Except when stuff like cosplay or stand girls get regarded as sexist and removed due to SJW's complaining and businesses afraid of their profits, getting politically correct abiding by the SJW's demands and expectations, removing the before mentioned things and replacing them with 'positive female empowerment' like casters like this event, then I think politics and demands are intertwined, atleast more than you're presuming.

QC has a rich history of male casters not having a fucking clue what they are mumbling about who ended up being just dead weights on the chairs. What makes you think in this case that the motivation to hire her was political and didnt come from the conclusion that a female talking head can bring in some extra viewers?

The same fact that the first guy they ask to come cast with the 'community casters' who is not a community caster but an actual competitor is a black guy.

Fun fact is that he's acting like a stereotypical black guy too. It hasn't have anything to do with more viewers. It has to do with affirmation and quotas. It's just so they can show to their higher ups that they're obedient and pushing the agenda.

Why? Because big corps survival and continued existence is dependant on following this lobby or get shut out one way or the other.

Politics are heavily involved in any channel that has effect on forming/shaping public opinion. Nowadays big corps are infiltrated and required to cooperate. Biggest risk to slander your name nowadays is to be racist, sexist, bigoted or anything 'phobic'. Herd mentality and hive mind is at it's highest in history and is heavily influenced by liberal channels on social media.

Bro, I've just tried to explain my point in a couple different manners. A fact also is if you look at the last 10 or so quakecons, then you will realize there is a sudden influx of female casters, whereas previously you had Liefje, which is fox's girlfriend if I'm not mistaken doing some coverage for ESR/id and that's pretty much it. It was based off hobby instead of a forced agenda which made it feel natural and people appreciated it. Yes there were stand girls, yes there was more female nudity, and all this is gone and replaced by uninteresting female personas which look unprepared, out of shape and on drugs. And the sole reason they are put there is just the convenience to cheaply be able to comply to the quota's and inclusion.

It has nothing to do with viewers. I'd say complaints about the casting quality are at an all times high, higher than when Zoot started casting and he wasn't using much depth and analytical way of looking at the game. People are frustrated and irritated that incompetent people are placed behind the mic, maybe to safe money on the budget or maybe to push an agenda, who knows. But your argument that it's to up the viewer count isn't finding much ground in my thought process. On the contrary, I think less people are watching the stream because the production is uninteresting and bland, large portion is due to the casters. And if you complain/ express your feelings about it you get a time-out, ban or warning from a soyboy mod (MyztroRoliTheOne)
This is all very unQuakelike and feels SJW'y.

These casters are bland and untalented, as Megaman mentioned below, there are multiple female Quakers/streamers that are more skilled, experienced and cut for the job, which would've provided way better content and helped in the viewercount process. They just happened to get these one to do their dirty work for cheap, regardless of the outcome.

You don't like the game, you don't like the casters, why do you watch this and have 20% of all comments here?

I've watched on Friday for an hour or two. Don't have QC installed, not a fan of the champ concept, otherwise was optimistic about the game, but no care anymore. "Vote" with your money, y'all reactionary crowd had your chance with QL and wasted it.

What I'm saying here is, when you have an audience consisting almost solely of males that want to see females in this field, getting females to cast, cosplay or just stand on the stage looking good is business. Its about money, you want those people to attend/watch your events again.

Quakecon never needed women to get a shitty amount of viewers...

Actually they had bigger amount a few years ago while there was 0 girl anywhere to be seen...but then again the game played was much better too so go figure

And btw on a more serious note :
CS:GO runs some of the biggest tournaments in esport almost always without a single girl in any position and it doesn't affect their amount of viewers at all, noone gives a fuck.
So I think your whole argument is bs when it comes down to esports.
All you need is : a good game, good casters and good production.

Valve had pumped good amount of money for gurl cs tournaments. Just the fact they made a separate female division is more populistic than its political.

As for the rest, ever since I remember every major event connected to gaming or computers had female models. I certainly dont remember 4 eyed dudes with Dachau bodies showing off new razer/intel/amd products.

Even Quakecon people edited out a fat dude from a picture to make the event appear more social.

lol a good amount of money are you kidding ?
The girl tournaments aren't organised by valve, the tournaments happen rarely and the prizepools are very small. And CS:GO is such a massive beast that I'm sure they could remove them completely and it wouldnt affect the playerpool and viewerbase one bit...literally noone gives a fuck about the girls tournaments

btw I wasn't talking about E3 and product presentations so maybe those use girls on stage, but if you mean that CS:GO majors are like this too then you would be wrong

There always were women hired to advertise and promote computer and gaming related events and products, just like in every other field.

There were CS (1.6, Source) girl-only tournaments with prize pools that didnt reflect the skill involved but rather the mere appeal of girl gamers attending tournaments.
If this is not a thing in csgo, well then its not. I dont follow that game so if its played mainly by giant spiders from outer space, I wouldnt know.

My point is - despite the current political climate, these things have always been this way and theres no need to be that deep in the rabbit hole.

I think she's the exception to what you are describing: VVea actually more experienced/veteran than most people in this site. She's just one of those hardcore fans that never got to attend Quakecon before.

For example from I could tell she did play Quake 2 back in the 90s and reached a proper level, based on a reference she made about how being able to drop weapons in that game makes QC's concept of what teamplay is to be different than what it was in previous Quakes. I've never heard zoot say anything as insightful as that, and he's the best established caster today.

And she paid her trip by herself, as said in the very stream. Id is not promoting an agenda. In fact, other male streamers got funds from id to attend.

Lastly, I think they are missing the opportunity of having a knowledgeable female caster for a change. Same has happened many times before: zanzan is better than 99% of duelers and nothing has been done to bring her in. Or I also remember in the early 2010s there used to be a UK girl streamer that was gorgeous (she really was) and that played Quake at a very solid level, but that got chased off by chat becoming increasingly weird. If Quake had someone like any of those three casting then the story of this game getting mere 5k viewers for a $175,000 tournament could have ended very differently.

edit: one more point about casting: I think it's a shame the devs aren't using the best Quake casters. This Quakecon has 5 official casters and many non-official ones, maybe 15-20 total, yet none of them is even in the top10 available. 2gd is just better and more experienced than all the 5 official casters combined, and since he wasn't playing he could have been reached. DDK didn't have anything scheduled for this weekend and he's not there: just why not have the only professional caster that's willing to cast Quake. Where's zsx, the MVP of last year's event. Today the stream had very bland casting, despite having like 15 people available, including 5 official casters for one stream (too much if you ask me). And while that happens it still lacked a necessary announcer and an interviewer, like Tosspot or Redeye could have been, because there was zero backstage reporting or talk with the players. It was just one angle, with one fixed camera pointed at the casters. Actually some of the casters were awful: I like watching spud's stream but he sucked hard today as a caster. Sorry in advance, but bringing him in was a waste of money. Hire fewer, but better and proven casters. You know, I think the only person that really justified his salary today was Jehar actually, and he didn't say a word: that's how bland the casting was today. Maybe Makaveli too, because he had to fill in in-between the network problems, while Kaplan was saying empty stuff (because he did not play any Quake before -- why are they hiring him again?). Guess that when QC is cancelled then people will see the excess that QC events had ended up playing a role on that.

Just don't agree that someones titles or previous achievements makes someone eligible for casting. Even when making a couple of smart remarks. She was out of place there and someone else could've added better content instead. It's just like when they put Yakumo on the seat next to Xhep and Zoot. He felt out of place like a lifeless meat puppet.

Doesn't matter that he's a moderator on that cesspool of the Bethesda forums or a knowledgeable tech guy. Fact is, he's sucking id and sabers dick and handling their dirty work on different platforms crusading for them for prolly a minimum amount of reward, just like they gave him the privilege to be on cam for 10 minutes or so. And yes, he's bad at the game and most of his opinions are biased because he's a lapdog, a very obedient one. Just like Zoot and the majority of the production and mod crew this Quakecon. Bunch of weak people that would dance if they are told to dance and lay down when told to lay down. Just like how Sync get's bullied by Tim and is irritated by it, but lets it happen anyway, because w/e hell might break lose and what account could go bankrupt if he or they don't perfectly follow the agenda.

It's all about them, not about the viewers. This whole QC thing from the begin on has been a travesty to the long time fans and anyone who has a bad or critical thing to say is either banned, shunned or muted and not given a voice to actually come with legit points to address the devs or the community. They even tried to pull that crap on ESR in the beginning and label it as NDA, while payed cocksucking folks (some of which previously loyal and legit e-sports folks) were actively deleting posts to uphold a positive image of a shit product.

But it seems, just like it has always done in the past, that even if something is bad or unacceptable, if you keep lying and telling yourself and others that it's good and proper, then people start believing it eventually.

" I've never heard zoot say anything as insightful as that, and he's the best established caster today."

Not even close to be true.

In fact there are quite a lot of casters that are better than him in quake. Rapha, Ddk, 2gd, the list goes on forever.

Zoot is just everywhere, because he has a lot of connections and he can't weasel his way in any other game. He tried, but there's actual competition and professional casters in csgo, dota, overwatch etc.; his extremely basic level (i see a thing, i "woooo" or say what happened) didn't cut it there.

I meant established in terms of zoot being present in all Quake events since forever. If the new chick, that got paid $0 to be there and to cast, makes better commentary than the main paid caster in Quake (zoot), then there's a bit of a problem there.

Concretely, surely 2gd and zsx charge way less than these 5 casters, and they are way better. Or the "help" that went to the dozen unknown community streamers could have been used to "help" ddk. Then you have two top-notch casters and an interviewer, rotating roles, and have the semis and finals cast by all three. Or if they want more then make Jehar be the fourth caster or announcer, because he's the cheapest to hire (lives in the area and regularly casts games without being paid to do so), and I think he's the better caster out of the 5 hired for this event.

With those guys the event as a whole would have been way better to watch: at least better than a fixed cam showing inexperienced people and no interviews whatsoever, in an event with $200,000 in prizes. Cheaper to have too. And the problem is new-to-Quake viewers are just going to switch the channel the second they see the casting for a $200,000 event is made by a masked guy slurring his words. Coverage used to be way better for $10,000 events.

And lastly, mak you seem like a guy good to hang around with and probably are the top1 or top2 of the casters of this event, but please don't interrumpt women talking nor stare at women you haven't met before. You didn't do that to Kaplan but to VVea only, and that got caught on camera dude.

I did not mean to imply that she would be a good caster or interested in casting. Just a nice stream, that's all. But I wouldn't mind watching QL tourneys through her stream if she did it laid-back style, like Fazz used to do.

"Same has happened many times before: zanzan is better than 99% of duelers and nothing has been done to bring her in. "

Why would they try to bring her in if she never expressed desire to cast? Just because she's good at the game doesn't mean she would be good at casting and as far as I know she might not even speak good English.

You always behave so reasonable on ESR, yet you go on a completely misplaced rant about a girl who was actually at least as knowledgable as the other two clowns that streamed along with her. There as some truths in your rant about online culture, but they are completely unrelated to this girl. But judging by the way you got triggered without actually watching the stream (I wont believe you did) and the way you express yourself, I can only conclude that you are really desperate about being "alpha".

I guess I should smelled it before. A CA player with a brain? Too good to be true.

Knowledgable, maybe. But she was misplaced there and my points are related. Everything I said is related to the truth.

I'm not desperate about being alpha, I'm just standing up for what I believe in. You're just doing you. No need to get upset because your jimmies got rustled because that damsel in distress didn't get WK'd enough by the other casters and for you to having to call me out about playing CA. Cheap way of trying to convert your frustration and lack of argumentative skill into a reply like that.

I saw the whole stream live, both day one and day two. So that argument is invalid. She didn't fit well between those 2 guys and it was obvious they were the main casters. She wasn't entitled on getting any attention, and so should nobody be just by being there. You either contribute, and do it in a way that has a presence or you just fade away over the more high-energy people.

A good example was Yakumo. While he probably had some interesting stuff to say about QC and the game that was going on, he was just not present enough and got overshadowed by people with more astute way of casting and interacting.

In the end it's all fault of the management and lack of preparation and last minute 'inclusions' that got that blue haired woman to be casting at that instant.

The reason she got interrupted a couple of times is because she wasn't confident enough in her interactions and lacked the power behind her words to make significant impact in that context of a fast paced fragfest game.

Face the facts, don't WK, don't mad and last but not least, stay truthful.

"She didn't fit well between those 2 guys and it was obvious they were the main casters. She wasn't entitled on getting any attention, and so should nobody be just by being there. You either contribute, and do it in a way that has a presence or you just fade away over the more high-energy people."

Are you really that obvlivious to how casting works? Casters have to give each other space. They cant just talk over each other. And she didnt get any. Furthermore, she was even interrupted and she wasnt even able to finish her sentences. Or maybe your ideal primal world doesnt have space for social intelligence, then its ok.

Seriously tho, the more you write on this topic, the more I see somebody just being desperate to win an argument. All this talk about white knighting, cucks, whores, in combination with you being a Clan Arena player, you simply dont wanna deal with the real world.

She maybe got interrupted a couple of times during the matches. But outside of those she was just making points perfectly without that happening. Other casters get interrupted all of the time, doesn't matter who this is, woman or male.

I've casted myself in the past.

Yet again you keep going on with your personal marks towards me. I see this is a common occurance with how you interact with with a great majority of the folks on this site. So I think the stuff you accuse me of are just based off of your own.

It's obvious that somehow your feelings got touched yesterday by this woman not getting space. I see there's a trend going on when it comes to German guys, especially the ones that frequent this site a lot that have such a hard time with the blue woman getting interrupted a couple of times. It's either this feminist agenda or multiculturalism got to your head or you're seriously the biggest momma's boys around.

I'm not even joking, I'm not laughing at it either. It's just general concern about how my fellow men behave these days. Just weak and unaware.

I think back of my quake experience and to be fair, given my skill and knowledge of the game, I've been treated way too kindly and inclusively, most of the time by pure virtue of showing up to events and being genuinely excited.

In casting, you have to give other casters space because you cant talk over each other. But you casted yourself, so I surely dont need to repeat it again for the third time.

About the personal remarks. In this thread, your replies are full of it. You adress people as white knight scum, basement dwellers, beta males, yet you cant take it when I make fun of you. Those insults were as misplaced and unrelated as my Clan Arena remark, the only difference is that my insult is not only an insult, but also the truth about you. You are mostly a Clan Arena player.

You are an overly sensitive tryhard alpha #woke male. And when it comes to the topic of the slavic girl, you desperately try to convince people of how much of a tool they are for mentioning that she was frozen out by makaveli and that other dudes mediocre casting.

I remember Enjoyka back from the ZLive crew in 2014 or 2015, she was a pretty good caster along with Shpuld. As far as QC goes, I think a lot of the female twitch streamers are fairly new players so they probably don't fit the job description. But, at the same time there are a lot of other people that tried casting at the event that weren't qualified either.

they were gods at casting, strange to not see them casting QC at all. especially since the style of casting has changed so dramatically since after QCON 2016. I think having one caster who has analytical skills for duel combined with a caster that has the skill to hype simple things for less aware players is a very strong combination. I found Joe to be the kind of guy that would just say what he sees on the most basic level, then 2GD would add the details and depth to give things more purpose. When you get a caster like Zoot and DDK paired, they just talk over the game. I think QCON 2016 was great for that pair, but I still feel that there is something missing with casters these days.

Well, aside from the Liquid/myztro game earlier, watching this stream has been a waste of a day. Props to Makaveli, zoot and Xhep for making this mess somewhat entertaining at least, they have done a great job. I just hope tomorrow's matches turn out to be interesting, but I'm not holding my breath.

edit: lol, in the time it took me to write this comment the game crashed and I'm now watching three people wearing funny hats. I think this supports my prior point nicely.

Very slow and tactical play. whaz+cha1n play kinda suffered in that open wide map, almost seemed like no team work at all from their part, but they still managed to take the match with some clutch plays.

He should've teamed up with strenx. Called his team 'Choose Situations'. That way both him and strenx would've gotten enough dono's to cover travel expenses and if they teamed up in time they would've probably be able to own together.

Considering that only one can be the champion, and the fact that there have been very few major QL tournaments during the entire competitive length of this game, has hurt Strenx to have achieved important titles.

Talking about his duelist skills, it is obvious that he is a legend has always been a top and proved it.

There were like 8 LANs in a row in 2010~2011 that he was either top 4, or simply lost to the winner of the tournament.

Not bad at all. Definitely put his name up there time and time again, what does it take to be a legend ? To me it's just a very recognizable name from the past. Which he has. If you have another definition (having won many tournaments or whatever), that's okay too, it's just different lexicology.

As I was fearing, the qualification format for the duel tournament on Sunday probably wasn't the best...

No disrespect to players like cha1n, whaz, silencep, lithz or busdriver... They're just not players we're used to see go very far (in general) in big duel tournaments.

So when I see that players like Cooller, Base, Vengeur, Dandaking or even Psygib with his recent close series against Dahang... that for all of these players it's already over and they can't have something to look forward to on Sunday, I'm a little sad.

I wish they would have done something like... maybe give 8 spots guaranteed for the top 4 teams of 2v2, and have the remaining 8 spots be fought for by those who wanted to.

As always happens at quakecon, the strongest NA players get the easiest brackets to the final, and the strongest foreign players/teams get matched together so they remove each other from the competition.

It's comical to watch fat american kids on twitch wanking over rapha and dahang dominating over the legendary....... busdriver something and his mate.

Ignorant makaveli and the other caster wouldnt let the slavic girl speak more. She was actually knowledgable, her english was good enough and she made a few interesting observations. They wouldnt even let her finish sentences, always interrupting her.

She was actually a pleasant contrast to the mediocre casting from makaveli and the other dude, but in the USA, "the show must go on", and what a show it was by the two of them )

I really liked the d3th cast from the little I watched last night, it's been too long since we had a more casual stream from events such as DreamHack (back in the day). I was hoping we'd get a community stream alongside today's official one too for the games we'd otherwise miss - because that would've been perfect. It's what me and zoot wanted to do for the monthly final a couple weeks ago, keep it casual. Maybe next year!

The games aren't worth watching without the full comms. A huge element of this mode is the comms, and instead of that we're getting this "professional esports caster" performance art. The casters provide nothing of value aside from adding the phony veneer of professional sports commentary. All it ends up being is distracting noise that you can't ignore and it drowns out the game audio. The practice scrims that Rapha did last week are vastly more watchable and informative than anything that's been done on the stage.

Wouldn't it be neat to have Q3 tournaments from 15 years ago that had a live-recorded audio commentary track from the players describing their tactics as they played? Well that's what this 2v2 format could have been, but instead we'll now have VODs with no useful audio of any kind.

Yep, and on the occasions where you get to have POVs from both teams' streams on Twitch you can actually see+hear how two teams handle both sides of the micro-successes/failures throughout a game. Mental toughness, emotion/tilt, and how they cope with it comes across crystal clear in those situations, and none of it gets used in these official broadcasts. Good comms essentially are the perfect form of casting because they're appropriately fast, calm, quiet, or excited exactly when they ought to be.

The cool thing about spectating FPS is that you're viewing the same environment and same information as the player; you're watching and listening through his eyes and ears. In 2v2 the comms are a massive part of what influences a player's moment to moment decision making, and this is missing all of that.

What is the point of hard bootcamping in QC? clawz said in interview he didn't even play the game for weeks before Quakecon, neither really practicing earlier more than 1-2 hours a day, he told the same last year and swept the floor with everyone both years. : )

Not sure if you replied to the right person. But I think some teams could benefit from bootcamping. It's easier to discuss stuff in person, and there's the bonding part which builds trust and improves comms and morale in and outside of the match.

Also, if you're face to face with people it's less likely you rage like you do online on your mate. If I was to ever go pro I'd love to bootcamp with my mates since it's also fun outside of the practical part.

It's all true, but Quake Champions seems to me that type of game where you can simply win with your godlike aim and mechanical skills, which isn't something you can improve after you reached your own limits. So I doubt that it's worth to sacrifice first weeks of marriage, physical condition, or basically anything, because hard grinding is not that profitable in the long run.

yep nowadays...steam ban only for fun 60,000 accounts with haxs. Even thought they ban them they dont really care cause they are gaining money from them. 60,000*10$(scgo price)=600,000$ ez money for them.

I was rooting for Team Liquid, but your comment is just plain dumb and shows the inferiority complex of you low/mid-level players from NA, who clearly rank beneath european low/mid-level players in terms of skill, because the average skill level in those ranks is much lower in NA. (I play on american servers (QL) sometimes when my sleeping schedule is fucked and with 100+ ping anybody up to 1800 elo is not to be taken serious)

Literally everybody predicted Team Liquid to dominate this tournament.

That Neymar/Strenx analogy is pretty good, man. Both whine a lot during games (either because of physicality or lags), both are largely one trick ponies who never got as effective as champions, and both are loved by brazillians. I bet theres more similiarities even.

He looks embarrassed to be there. Let's be honest, watching "esport pro players" interviews is always a cringefest.

A bunch of people that are simply not used being around people in real life.

Dahang is like, the most awkward player in the whole quake scene, he looks like he's about to have a stroke at any moment, and those hands in the hoodie pockets! He looked like he was trying to cosplay a bat taking off.

Rapha at least can maintain some chill and kind of control his voice, but he looks like a fish out of water still after like 10 years of being on stages. And he too doesn't know what to do with his hands.

Of course it's not only quake, most pro players in any competition are walking cringe labs of social ineptitude and zero self confidence. Except some really big ones.

Well played Team Liquid, well played... There's nothing to say about their performance, absolutely sublime, high level, victory deserved.

I'm just a bit disappointed about how the tournament turned out. I was waiting all these months for them to face the fiercest competition.

First... Cypher doesn't get visa... Then Cooller's team is destroyed at the last minute with Nitrino not getting his visa.

The tournament starts, the 8 qualifying teams for the playoffs are determined, and I say to myself "cool, there's a good chance we'll see Liquid having to face something like... Av3k/K1llsen, then Xron/Silencep, and then Tox/Clawz".

But unfortunately all the NA team go on the same side, and we see them face Dooi/Garpy in the semi, which was pretty much a given result, seeing the last 500 scrims against them.

Not only that, but Tox/Clawz play a marathon in the semifinal, and with all the delays, the final is played at like 4AM Europe time, and it felt like Tox Clawz weren't as clear headed in their decisions as previously.

So a little bit disappointed, I really wanted Team Liquid to win by facing and destroying the fiercest competition possible, if possible having very nice series (like we saw when they faced Myztro EU in the first day), but it was not to be, bad luck on the draws, etc...

Not really, Im fairly sure that most American top teams are as good as the top European teams, or even better. But then again, you call me stupid for not knowing about your hypothetical knowledge, so I cant take you serious.

And lol at "didn't put much effort into replying". You actually took the time to look up his QL profile and dig up something that you consider embarrassing enough to bring up because he didn't agree with you.

I didnt have to look up his QL profile because I remember playing him from playin QL myself.

And how exactly didnt I stay on the topic? I questioned his ability to judge the skill of other players because of his own low skill level. Thats obviously not the most profound argument, but so isnt "yeah....no", it seemed to me that hes out of arguments in this discussion.

It's off topic because one's level is irrelevant to judge someone else's ability. As a matter of fact most sport judges who judge sporting competitions were not high level athletes themselves, they are professionals assigned by the commission.

Besides we're talking about QC TDM teams and you're bringing up his QL Duel elo. Just admit that it was just an attempt to ridicule him for having a different opinion.

"Not really, Im fairly sure that most American top teams are as good as their European counterparts, or even better. But then again, you call me delusional and naive for not knowing about your hypothetical knowledge, so I cant take you serious."

I said to myself this year I won't watch QCON but I had to tune in after reading this thread. There seems to be a lot of hatred to what has gone on.

So I have returned as the voice of Quake.

My initial reaction to tuning in was when they had the massive laggy technical issues, that was bad.
The casters were meh and I genuinely feel really bad for that lady caster, she was rather insightful however the "men" were purely just dominating the chat with useless verbiage.

Prior to the assessment of the brackets, what a clusterfuck again, how is it that Rapha and Dahang ALWAYS get the easiest brackets, playing against scrub teams that have ZERO chance?

Where our EU comrads, like EVERY quakecon or quake competition end up having to play grueling top tier games to knock each other out?

Mentally that's fucking hardcore, it honestly drains the players, where the American Liquid DUO get an easy sweep of matches against teams they can honestly just auto-pilot on.

So basically you're saying that tox+clawz lost only because they were "drained"? lmao, nice shitty excuses right there, not to mention you more likely did not even watch the final because if you think they weren't playing at the level they had to you're just an idiot.

"Not really, Im fairly sure that most American top teams are as good as the top European teams, or even better. But then again, you call me stupid for not knowing about your hypothetical knowledge, so I cant take you serious.

I don't see people bashing it for the sake of it. Everyone pointed out the countless bugs, design mistakes, and general defects the game and the tournament had.

What i do see is a few people like you and a few other suspects defending the game, the devs and the tournament for the sake of it, without valid points, just vague positivist "feel good" rethorics, or at best, the good 'ole "but it isn't even out yeeeeet" bullshit argument.

All you gotta do is look a few comments above and you already have it.

"Shit game, shit rules, everything sucks after ql."

"last time bethcon had quake was 2016. at least it went out with a bang"

And there are tons of others.

Pointing out the bugs, design mistakes and other defects has been done countless times as you said, and yet people still spend their time going to QC threads to say that the game is shit, that people who play QC have no self-esteem and are disgraceful and so on.

Just your reaction itself towards my comments demonstrates what I'm talking about. At no point have I defended the game, or said it was great, or found excuses for its poor netcode. You see me as the enemy for literally pointing out that some people like to go to QC threads to shit on it and that they should just get over the fact that the game ain't going to change for them and be like Q3 again.

I'm not defending the game, the devs or the tournament in any of my comments, I'm just merely telling people they should dry their tears and move on. Why even bother going to the comments section of a thread about a game you hate so much just to post some flame? Get a fucking grip boys.

The public perception of the game you say. I only post on ESR about the game and that's far from the public tbh, more a niche arena fps site with a decreasing number of visitors.

Say I have direct interests all you want, I'm not gonna join the general ESR opinion of hating on something just to be accepted. Hell I even got to the point where I'm almost tempted to say "long live QC" just to trigger some of those passionate haters.

12 Angry Men is an old classic movie, jury has to decide if a young man is guilty of murder, 11 of them agree on that he is because every evidence says so, but one disagree and tries to change their mind.

you whine that cooller isn't in the duel tournament while the rules were known from the get-go and somehow blame it on the fact that QL isn't the game played...do you even realise how much garbage comes out of your mouth ?

Not definitive proof, but in most of his gamees it's so obvious he's shamelessly wallhacking and using item timers. Like, straight staring and tracking trough walls. Plus his aim constantly sucks except when he "turns it on" for the matches that matter and starts hitting absurd flick rails

Also the fact he constantly jokes on stream about having to turn on/off cheats, what are his favourite ones, how he avoids lan because he can't cheat there, etc.

He knows he ain't gonna be caught in a game with no anticheat, so he can push it in everyone's face and nothing will happen. Plus the admins of the cups are russians so he can do what he wants and they'll defend him.

The fact Rapha has consistently permormed worse than Dahang in the duel aspect of this game so far and even lost directly against him makes me think, if that was Rapha in Dahang's place, the final would have been some 10-15 seconds shorter and set a new guinness world record

The first duels of this tournament were not as exciting, because of the great skill gap of players such as Rapha vs. Lithz and Clawz vs. Whaz, for example. Clawz himself seemed bored to face an opponent so easy for him:

RAISY vs. k1llsen was the least entertaining to watch. I don't know what k1llsen was thinking picking Nyx as his first character and getting killed every time. When he lost her again within 40 seconds of the 2nd round and (duh) managed to claim that one I've thought he learned the lesson, but then he picks her again in 3rd and (duh) loses it all.

I can vouch, the only thing worse about QCON 2018 was the tournament. It was for the most part not very interesting leading up to the finals. The very finals itself was very nice, but something different for most of us here was that it had very little build up. Someone brought up there being little to no rivalry for Team Liquid leading up to the finals, I agree with that. I practically just guessed who would make it to the end, and sure enough... the picks were right and my guess for who would win was too.

I suppose, the most aggravating thing in this tournament was bo1 duel. That is soooo... fucking.. boring. I just want to make that clear. I think most of us here didn't really find Duel to be as big of a build up as it has been over the years. Even last year's duel tournament was way more interesting. So many more rivalries, so many more games, so many more qualifications, hoops and hurdles. It also seemed like there were more contestants, and with the prizepool shrinking, everything else about this game does too.

There is little going for QC, we'll find out that CTF has boring maps, and the community will start feeling even worse than they do now.

I'm not going to argue about what you liked or didn't like about the event or how you felt about the excitement of the tdm and duel tournaments, as it's your own opinion.

However I would say you're wrong when you say: "It also seemed like there were more contestants, and with the prizepool shrinking, everything else about this game does too."

Actually there were more contestants this year compared to last year.

Last year there were 8 teams of 4 for sacrifice (32 players), and 24 players for duel (11 of those played in Sacrifice too). So that's a total 43 participants across sacrifice and duel.

This year there were 42 TDM teams of 2, so 84 players. That's almost double the number of contestants compared to last year.

Now the prizepool has indeed shrinked however saying "everything about this game does too" is not accurate either. The playerbase is more than twice as big compared to the same time last year, and the peak number of players is 3 times bigger.

Its a good joke, but he didnt choke. There wasnt much he could do, since map control and positioning (in the specific case of traps) dont matter. He actually played quite great, considering that his aim was always the weakest aspect of his game.

Anyway, overall I like some of the aspects of the duel tournament (the new ban system, the overall pace of the game right now, and the very high level of play with players that pull some great reads on each others), I just wish they had let more players have a chance at participating (feels bad for those whose QuakeCon ended after just one day, especially Cooller who had bad luck with his team). And the best of 1 format... oh well... For a one time thing, it spiced things up, but please for next time a real tourney :)

I don't think the right words have yet been invented through which I'd accurately be able to convey the utter disappointment and dejection I feel. A plethora of technical issues throughout the entire tournament, some god-awful casting, stupid prize distribution and to top it all off the final of the duel world championships is only best of one?

This was hands down the worst Quakecon I've ever had the displeasure of watching. Sort your fucking shit out, id.

You havent seen many then. The technical issues were laughable compared to other quakecons with spinning logo etc where we hardly seen any games at all. Let alone the 'funny games' for hours before the finals.
We seen all important 2v2 games, which was choosen to be the main tournament this year. Is that so hard to understand?
Productionwise this was for sure one of the better quakecons.

Sure, I've only watched every single Quakecon since the early 2000's. I don't know what I'm talking about.

I know everyone here likes to meme on the spinning logo, but that's not as bad as servers crashing multiple times in the same game, and then the rest of the aforementioned game not being shown on stream at all. And I couldn't care less what they're trying to promote as the main competitive mode - a Bo1 final is ridiculous irrespective of what agenda id are trying to push, and if you'll stop lying to yourself for a second you'll probably find you agree with me on that point.

You are right about one thing though: the technical issues were laughable.

Regarding technical issues, don't you recall in about 2010 only 15 seconds of the first match were shown on the Friday stream, and nothing else was shown on the whole day? Or regarding your complain about scheduling, in about 2008 there was a 6-hour long break before the grand finals because of Guitar Hero competitions and bawls chugging.

Point is that while there were issues this year, still in previous years they were way worse. Doesn't mean it's good, but it's not the worst Quakecon for viewers by any means.

It had little to no build up, and the climax was only an anticipated rivalry. The finals was great, but I knew several weeks before this finals that it would be RapHanG vs TOX & Clawz. Easiest prediction ever. The Duel tournament was just dick smoke, probably the least memorable duel tournament in QCON history. For crying out loud, how can anyone say that THIS was far from the worst QCON. You must be dick riding QC quite hard my friend. It wasn't 100% certain any year in QL that it would be Rapha vs. Evil in a duel finals, but the majority of the finals back then were earned by the pure shape and form of the players.

Who else felt like the players weren't motivated for the Duel tournament, it looked like they had little to no practice at all except for Garpy and Clawz.

Ok some quakecons had worse schedules and technical issues, but you have to consider the quality of the games too.

And quake chimpions is an absolute abomination of a quake game, as amply showed once again.

What the hell were those games? Abilities spamfest, retarded aim based gameplay, 5 minutes grand final. At least the other quakecons had some great matches of quake 3/live. Hell, even quake 4 wasn't this bad gameplay wise.

Clawz didn't abuse shit. His aim is jerky since quake live times- like Killsen, he uses a lot of acceleration. He still has that jerky lg. His style just happened to benefit more from it, but it certainly wasn't intentional.

And it's not like Clawz was ever know for anything other than his outstanding aim.

He knew about it... subconsciously? Let me guess, it's got something to do with Russian bots. Damn those pesky russian bots, always ruinging everything! Today i fell down, it was because of Putin i tell you!

The roundsystem is terrible, it's more or less a dumbed down mod of classic duel, id/saber are just too lazy and ignorant to fix this mess. The bo1 final and really the whole duel "tournament" is proof of how irrelevant duel has become in quake. Sad.

Secondary tournament, full of random with bo1 single bracket etc, but still they didnt know what do for the last day.
2vs2 good but double elimination is the best format (it should be standard in all tournaments), and bad schedule for eu (60-70% of quake market, and still last games live at 3-4-5am lol)

There have been many annoying things this year but i think casters made it worst qcon ever for me.

JKaplan with his unfunny jokes and bullying makaveli for being noob these days (like kaplan ever was anything close to good in quake...) and it was easy to see that maka doesnt really like it.

Zoot (do i have to tell anything about him?)

Ketchup with his OH MY GOD WHAT A ROCKET casting when someones hit 60dmg spam rocket

+for maka, he's a cool guy and he tried to act somewhat professionally with his insight talking etc explaining basic stuff for most quakers but kinda useful for the newcomers

+jehar for being himself, and he's cool aswell, big respect for casting other quakes not just going on a qc train, he's a true quaker

like many said before shame they didnt get 2gd, zsx, ddk or maybe some pro to cast cause it could have made it much more interesting to watch but what can i say, its not a real quake, thats why we get not a real casters for it.

and that bo1 duel final, i mean i know it wasnt the main gamemode for this year, but 2v2 got bo7. There was time to make bo3 at least. I mean, its QUAKECON FINAL, the prestige of getting that throphy is really big, and add 25k $ to it. And u give players only 1 chance. Pretty sure avek vs spartie wouldnt end up so quick if it would be bo3. Can u imagine csgo major tournament with bo1? Its just a fucking joke. qcon duel final that lasted 10 minutes.

Clawz accomplishments shouldn't even be mentioned anywhere near toxic. Tox beat the best and won tournaments in most competitive environment. Both duel and tdm. Clawz won something in a trash game that nobody even cares to play or to train properly.

Outside the game the guy with most championships (rapha) is still renting while clawz bought his first house at 19yo, while both play the same game franchise and attended the same tournaments. They do they same thing but one won when it mattered the most. Also clawz has won more relevant tournaments: this year's Quakecon with 31k viewers and with finally new top players playing, just destroys any QL event ever in terms of importance outside the 200 opinionated people that browse ESR.

Also inside the game the competition is still there. Everyone that is someone in Quake played at the QC events that clawz played. The classic Quake3 champion (cooller), the CPM champion (voo), the Quake4 champion (tox), the return to Q3 champion (cypher), the QL champion (rapha), the last QC champion (dahang): clawz still laughs all the way to the bank every time he surpasses them. Clawz has beaten all the notable players in Quake's history, and people still underminish his achievements. He really has no one else left to beat.

And he managed to do so while not being even sponsored, while others are and were paid to only play full time. Maybe the problem is accepting that a never-pro is beating the pros; that Quake is actually simpler than previously thought so that if someone hits everything then a better strategy is not going to win? Or is it that hard to believe that a law school student (clawz at the time) had the talent in a hobby of his to beat people that have dedicated their whole professional life to that thing?

I recall this same thing happening when tox was winning everything in Q4. Accusations of the game being sub-par, of the top players not attending (except they did), of other people not putting in the time (except they did and now we can actually watch it on Twitch). But time went by and now people recognize tox as one of the greats. Point is maybe time will make people realize that clawz is now in that tier of being one of the greats in Quake too, after having won his second 1v1 Quakecon (other Quake greats have won none), and is now one of the very few in history to win two in a row (not even cypher and tox could).

cypher couldn't play at this QCon or the previous one and the only times they were in the same tournament was Beat Invitational which cypher won beating clawz in the finals and Dreamhack Winter where cypher finished 3rd/4th while clawz didn't even make it out of groups

If it's so easy to be good at it how come the majority of the best QC players are the exact same players who were best at the previous quakes?

Being a Q3/cpm/Q4 champion isn't anything more to be proud of either, it's still a niche video game anyway.

My point was that just because you don't like QC doesn't mean it has less credit to be a champion of.

You can keep playing the HoF cups feeling you're elite and playing a hardcore game in QL, but at the end of the day it's a dead game and you still can't even be a champion on it, let alone on active game like QC.

Clawz has made more money on QC than most other Quake pros on previous quakes, that's enough to be proud of.

Just give people the respect they deserve instead of being a salty hater.

If it's so easy to be good at it how come the majority of the best QC players are the exact same players who were best at the previous quakes?

isnt it obvious? they have skills from other quakes so there's no need to learn much, same with clawz, he had that skills in ql aswell but he never accomplished anything because he lacked other skills that other pro's had which is experience for example. clawz only had combat skills, he's even timing based on feeling still, he learned duel under cyber and later cypher, he plays just like cypher nowadays but he lacks what cypher has which is experience thats why cypher > clawz everytime

btw how can u call q3/cpm/q4 niche games :D maybe they are now but they wasnt when there was competition in it, and thats what we are talking about here, accomplishments of players in a game where there were tournaments

yeah im the hater here... i said before that i dont think clawz is noob or smth because he's a champion in a noob game, clawz has my respect, he's a great player but cant be compared to such gods like cooller or tox or said he's better just because he won 2 quakecons in noob quake.

he's a champion of a game that doesnt need as many skills as previous quakes had and which clawz dont have, thats why he's a champion of it. He improved what he need to be best to win in this game and he is doing so, so be it.

Sorry to burst your bubble dude but QC is the most popular Quake game ever. There's not a single metric that shows previous Quakes were as popular, so previous Quakes were more of a niche.

It's too bad MM works the way it does, so that QC seems dead. But if QC had a server browser and without using elo, like back in the day, then you'd see hundreds of packed servers in EU and NA, according to Steamcharts.

Since we are talking about tournaments, Quakecon 2018 had the highest viewership and the highest amount of top newcomers in history (competition). Also i think it had the highest amount of teams competing as well. So, the champion of the largest Quakecon ever was clawz.

For example, rapha was the champion of a game with 300 average concurrent players on Steam, 5,000 viewers, not a single new top player that wasn't one in Q3, and tournaments that gave 5 to 10k to the champion. Clawz is the champion of a game with 3,000 avg. concurrent players, 31,000 viewers, lots of new competition while the old top kept on playing as well, and 175k going to the champion. Which achievement matters more then? In the real world the answer is clear: in your mind it's the opposite.

Or ok, as a fan of the game I personally think that a Quakecon is a Quakecon (top event in Quake), and clawz has won two main event individual Quakecons and one in teams. That already puts him as one of the top10 Quake players in history, if not top5. Clawz has three more Quakecon victories than cooller and people dismiss him anyway haha. Only in ESR.

Lastly, top players play for money. That's what matters to them, because it's either their job (rapha, cypher) or their main side source of income (tox, clawz). They don't care one bit about what others think, just like you and I don't about what others think of what we do to earn a living. There's always going to be haters for everything, so what matters is laughing your way to the bank. Clawz is doing that.

saying QC is more popular than Q3 in the early 2000's just because you don't have the Q3 numbers to prove it is a complete joke.
Back then there were multiple leagues (Barrysworld, Clanbase, Jolt, Savage) all with 6 or 7 divisions just for TDM and CTF each and packed with teams.
And I'm only talking about Europe and not even mentionning CA that also had multiple leagues and divisions or duel that had its own playerbase (and not to forget CPMA)

So ye maybe we don't have numbers to prove that Q3 was more popular than QC is but it sure felt WAY more alive and I'm convinced the playerbase was thus bigger than QC's (Q3 wasn't even F2P like QC is btw)

You also talk about QL's 300 average concurrent players on Steam...lol these are the numbers for THIS year, are you for real ? (Not to forget that you have to buy QL on steam which wasn't the case when it was in browser version)

Talking about about the amount of viewers is also so wrong and ridiculous as a way to compare how popular 2 games from a different generation are because :
1) Twitch is more popular each year that goes by
2) Again the QL numbers you mention were at the very end of the life of the game that was basically 17yo if you consider it's an extension of Q3

And then you mention the money...fucking hell...
You think those players try harder when there is 175k on the line than when there was 10k ?
No, they always tried as hard as they could so stop insulting past champions by claiming that because one has won a bigger prize therefore he's a bigger/better champion.
You should simply look at the amount of major tournaments won (those that had lots of big names competing in them) and not the money involved and then you would realise that clawz is NOWHERE near the likes of rapha, cooller, cypher etc

Achievements not only include amount, but quality as well. It's both things.For example rapha was the clear best in QL because of winning Quakecons and the two ESL grand finals ever hosted. But if we go by quantity then strenx was the best Quake player ever, and no one thinks that.

Quakecon today is the most important event in Quake, and clawz won it two years in a row. In terms of winning more important tournaments, clawz has already surpassed cooller's top achievements. It's only a matter of time until clawz wins more tournaments (quantity) and overall surpasses cooller as a player.

That would be difficult since GTV was decentralized.
There were usually lots of local GTVs chained to a master GTV for big events. Unless you knew the IP for every single "local" GTV you had no idea what the actual viewership was.

The only screenshot i have is from ESWC masters 2008 with 1405 spectators. But that was the last big Q3 event before most players moved to QL.. so not really the golden era.

Twitch didn't even exist when Q3 was around so what the hell are you even talking about ?
It's like if I said that there were more GTV viewers in Q3 than in QC and it's a fact, zomg !!11

Achievements not only include amount, but quality as well. It's both things.For example rapha was the clear best in QL because of winning Quakecons and the two ESL grand finals ever hosted. But if we go by quantity then strenx was the best Quake player ever, and no one thinks that.

Did you not see that I said major tournaments ?
Obviously I dont count the meaningless online zotac cups which are the only things strenx could ever win.
So yes obviously rapha >>> strenx

Quakecon today is the most important event in Quake, and clawz won it two years in a row. In terms of winning more important tournaments, clawz has already surpassed cooller's top achievements. It's only a matter of time until clawz wins more tournaments (quantity) and overall surpasses cooller as a player.

Ye TODAY it's the most important event since it's almost the only event...
Back then there was ESWC, CPL or WCG and they were equally as important if not more important (some CPL events had bigger prizepool than some QCon editions since money seems to be the only important factor to you)
So no winning QCon doesnt mean everything and isn't the only thing you should consider when judging greatness

Also lol @ "only a matter of time until clawz wins more tournaments"...
I wonder how long that's going to take since the previous major non-QCon duel event was Dreamhack Winter that took place 8 months ago (where cooller finished above clawz btw...) and I don't see other big tournament organisers rushing to throw large amount of money at QC

To give some numbers, Q3A probably sold a few hundred thousand copies according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quake_III_Arena#Sales. According to the .csv file in this article, Quake Champions has been played by ~1.1 million people and Quake Live (Steam edition) by ~1.4 million people (that's basically the number of people who've ever run it, if I understood correctly). Make of that what you wish, but I think with the way gaming as a pasttime has grown (i.e. many more people play games), it would be bizarre for a 2018 game not to have much bigger absolute player numbers than a 1999 game. I wasn't around when Q3 released, but it wouldn't surprise me to hear that it was much more popular in relative terms than Quake Champions is today.

I find QC much more difficult to play than any other previous quake (and yes i played them all).. the addition of champions added a new dimension to the game. You're not just countering positions and weapons anymore but also champions and their abilities. The latter requires you to also time cooldown and respawn of hourglasses.

Edit: forgot to ask.. what exactly is the argument for calling it a noob game?

many things make it a noob quake but for example lets talk about the abilities which makes this game much more forgivable than any other quake.

like nyx, you fuck up a fight and gonna die soon? bam invisibility
you get surprised by your enemy in a position that u will most likely loose fighting here? invisibility
you wanna steal an item from your enemy? invisibility

its so easy playing that champion because its very forgivable to make mistakes, and because of that you dont have to learn on them, you just need to collect hourglasses so next time u fuck up u can hit invisibility again

and how annoying it is to play against that champ, u need to catch nyx first in a fight to make her hit invisibility to have that ~30 sec when she's vulnerable and then go and catch her again to kill her this time.

next stupid champion - visor

do i have to say anything? ability to see through walls. Like wth man how is it legal

or clutch...

old quakes were easy to learn hard to master games, qchamps is easy to learn no need to master game because u have abilities to support your mistakes.

like u are playing duel, just stacked up on mh/heavy seeking for a fight, in normal situation you would have won 1v1 battle but enemy is ranger, he throws a ball at you and insta kills you. All that hard working to get stack and catch him for nothing because u get instakilled by a ball.

Depends on how you narrate and explain the situations you described.
Same could have been said that because certain champions and their abilities appear to be OP (when you're on the receiving end of it) it makes this quake more difficult to play than the previous ones.

How about an atom bomb weapon. It is super hard to dodge. Situations become super difficult because of it. But does it make the game better in terms of competitiveness? Or is it just plain boring to watch because you know the outcome most of the time a situation appears. Because the atom bomb is so hard to dodge.

its not difficult, but annoying then. It is easy to learn how to play against those abilities, annoying part is that u have to do it. The greatness of duel in previous quake was that at the beginning of the game both u and your enemy are equal, u spawn with same stack and no weapons and the better one wins

now, u can take a champ who has 100 armor while spawning against a 50 armor champ and be almost sure u win 1v1 battle, that also denies the spawn killing that i miss a lot.

and how is playing against a champ who can see through walls more difficult? like, that used to be cheating, now its a meta. Before, when u played against a wallhacker u didn't think to yourself ' hmm thats a challenge for me, but what can i do, this is what it is i should get used to it and continue playing against a guy who can see me through walls ' but u thought about killing that fuckers family for being such a lowbob

shoot two rails and you can frag half the champions no matter their stack. that sounds like depth to me. abilities add RNG, making it less of a game about precise calculation and anticipation. basically there is less crucial information that is reliable. is that good? maybe for aimers, yeah. for smart players, no. you're taking away an element of precision and brain right there. a huge portion of high level quake comes down to knowing your odds of winning fights. the odds should never be less than 50% when you have superior stack, position and weaponry. that is stupid. but, it seems to be a problem now. If abilities are not as big of a deal as everyone says they are, why is it that an ability can kill someone with better playing habits? I've been rushed over and over and over and over and over by idiots, and to my surprise it has worked like a charm. They go for the all in play, trying to telefrag me because they can't beat me any other fucking way unless my aim is off.

yea, the majority of the best qc players are the same who were best at previous quakes, but not in the same order. clawz wasn't in the top 3 in quake live and i doubt he'd be today either if quake live was still the relevant quake game. quake champions is the most dumbed down quake by far. combat skills are too important. it's the most shallow quake version.

But at the end of the day as time goes by people end up appreciating the most recent games. No one bashes tox for winning in Q4... anymore, because his victories were underappreciated when Q4 was active. No Q1 player is saying, anymore, that Q3 victories don't count.

Theres some logic in what you are saying, but it doesnt really refute his point (that QC is a noob game). Q1 to QL all demanded more skill than this. Im not saying that QC is completely lacking the skill, but the drop this time seems much more vertical.

Maka literally said "parkisons LG" to talk about someones bad LG. That might be acceptable on ESR forums but saying in a professional broadcast that someone has "parkinsons" because they can't aim shows you who we are deailng with.

Makaveli is a cool guy though and I like him, just that's really tacky and makes community look bad.