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YayPepsi

2011-12-08 12:34

This show is bad for my health. I get so worked up over it. XD I'm going to wait until the sub to say anything else because I have no idea what the hell is going on anymore.

Grim_Reaper

2011-12-08 12:44

Wow, this episode felt like 5 minutes long.

Kazu-kun

2011-12-08 13:52

Let's tie some knots here:

Back in 1995 Momoka saved Tokyo from Sanetoshi.

In episode 9 Himari was looking for a book called Super-Frog Saves Tokyo. This is a reference to Murakami, but San-chan does find the book in the library. I think that in the context of the story this book is about Momoka. She is/was the super frog that saved Tokyo.

Not surprisingly, there's a lot of frog imagery related to Ringo. I didn't think too much of it at the time, but now things seem to be coming together.

Spoiler for episode 22:

Yuri meets with Ringo and gives her the half of the diary that she had.

So, is Ringo the new super frog? On this note I read a comment on myanimelist that I liked quite a bit:

Quote:

Shouma needs a good kick from Ringo to start fighting already. Kamba gives his all. Himari gives her all. It's time for Shouma to stop being trash, to stop running away and save the world. He has a superfrog next to him who he can rely on. What's more, her name's Ringo - apple, a symbol of love and universe.

konart

2011-12-08 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun
(Post 3892956)

Quote:

Shouma needs a good kick from Ringo to start fighting already. Kamba gives his all. Himari gives her all. It's time for Shouma to stop being trash, to stop running away and save the world. He has a superfrog next to him who he can rely on. What's more, her name's Ringo - apple, a symbol of love and universe.

Depends :heh:

Kazu-kun

2011-12-08 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by konart
(Post 3892998)

Depends :heh:

On what? The very first episode states that interpretation, which is also a reference to Miyazawa.

Utsuro no Hako

2011-12-08 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun
(Post 3893002)

On what? The very first episode states that interpretation, which is also a reference to Miyazawa.

Isn't the apple a symbol of the next world, i.e. the afterlife? And the exact line is, "The apple is a reward for those who have chosen love over everything else," which once again puts me in mind of a Modoka-style ending.

Kazu-kun

2011-12-08 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako
(Post 3893030)

Isn't the apple a symbol of the next world, i.e. the afterlife?

Not necessarily. I mean, you might interpret it that way but not every passenger on the train is dead. Giovanni is alive, and he also gets an apple. The apple symbolizes the ties that bind people together, either dead or alive. Basically, it symbolizes love (not necessary romantic but any kind of love). Miyazawa also used to refer to the apple as a "universe in the palm of your hand", since everything in the universe is interconnected.

konart

2011-12-08 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun
(Post 3893002)

On what? The very first episode states that interpretation, which is also a reference to Miyazawa.

On culture\religion etc. But here - yeah...

Kazu-kun

2011-12-08 15:42

Damn, Masako was so badass there at the end.

She's become my second favorite character after Ringo. Himari and Shouma are useless, and Kanba is a nutjob. Ringo and Masako FTW!!!

YayPepsi

2011-12-09 00:48

Maybe it's my wishful thinking, but I have a feeling that Kanba is going to somehow be able to be redeemed from this after all. He's still being shown in a somewhat sympathetic light, especially with saving Masako and the flashback of how he wanted them to live a normal life. I could be wrong, of course. I'm very biased in my love for Kanba after all. :P

It was a good episode. I've come to realize how much I like Masako. She was my absolute least favorite character in the beginning and she grew on me a lot. I'd say now that she's my third favorite, after Himari. Speaking of Himari, that scene with her and Kanba was great and so sad. I really felt for Kan in that scene - he knew she was forcing herself to say those things. And Himari, giving back his life to him. I really thought that maybe her wish would come true and she would die back in the aquarium. It would be interesting if her wish in the present is what caused her to die in the aquarium in the past, and then cause the penguin hat to save her, causing a fate loop of sorts.

Forsaken_Infinity

2011-12-09 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by YayPepsi
(Post 3893592)

And Himari, giving back his life to him. I really thought that maybe her wish would come true and she would die back in the aquarium. It would be interesting if her wish in the present is what caused her to die in the aquarium in the past, and then cause the penguin hat to save her, causing a fate loop of sorts.

Nope. Not that shit again please.

Anyway, another awesome episode.

I don't see how Kanba could possibly be redeemed from blowing up a number of security personnel short of some magic. Ringo does have half her diary but ;_;

I still want something that doesn't feel like deus ex machina to end the anime.

From that interview of Ikuhara, I get the feeling that Kanba is going to be convicted as a criminal and yet still loved by his family, including Shouma.

Himari should still die. It'll be very interesting to see how that's played out.

This show already overdid my expectations for it (probably because I didn't have crazy high expectations like a lot of people did) but a well done ending would make it that much better.

Guardian Enzo

2011-12-09 01:41

I'm no longer rooting for Kanba to be redeemed. He doesn't deserve redemption. No amount of manic obsession with a theoretically worthy cause can justify the actions he's taken. Kanba simply uses people and throws them away for what he sees as a noble goal.

If he lives, Ikuhara has created a pretty nihilistic universe here.

TheEroKing

2011-12-09 02:05

Quite sad Kanba turned out to be like this after being GAR for most of the series. What way could it be that Sanetoshi mention to save Himari? Whatever it is most likely involves a big number of people to die. Maybe he really is just the ghost of a terrorist. This had to be the most confusing episode so far. Did Masako die at the end? Seriously hope not, she doesn't deserve it. I'm still hoping somehow Ringo, Shouma and Himari live at the end.

Utsuro no Hako

2011-12-09 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo
(Post 3893653)

I'm no longer rooting for Kanba to be redeemed. He doesn't deserve redemption. No amount of manic obsession with a theoretically worthy cause can justify the actions he's taken. Kanba simply uses people and throws them away for what he sees as a noble goal.

If he lives, Ikuhara has created a pretty nihilistic universe here.

On the contrary, I don't think Penguindrum is the sort of universe where anyone is beyond redemption. It certainly won't be free, and Kanba may not be able to get it in this lifetime, but it's not foreclosed to him.

Forsaken_Infinity

2011-12-09 02:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako
(Post 3893696)

On the contrary, I don't think Penguindrum is the sort of universe where anyone is beyond redemption. It certainly won't be free, and Kanba may not be able to get it in this lifetime, but it's not foreclosed to him.

It's more about the degree of redemption imo. There's no way Kanba can go back to being a happy-go-lucky playboy Aniki again. But that he can see the errors of his ways, be forgiven at least by his "family" (no bloody way anyone else would, could or should) and repent in some way is possible and for me, that's still redemption.

DragoonKain3

2011-12-09 03:35

Screw everyone else, all I got from this episode is that Yuri and Tabuki are together again. <3

Which is kinda odd, as I feel detached to the main story even when you factor in that the Shoma-Himari-Kanba triangle are all childhood friends. I dunno, Shoma is too much of a wuss right now, while Kanba is pursuing an ideal where he thinks Himari would be happy rather than what she is trying to say. In any case, both are NOT taking into consideration what Himari really wants.

Heck, I felt way more during the cliffhanger in where Himari just dropped dead and had to be rushed to the hospital. Now that Himari has indeed faded from existence, I was just kinda meh.

Guardian Enzo

2011-12-09 03:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3
(Post 3893730)

Screw everyone else, all I got from this episode is that Yuri and Tabuki are together again. <3

Which is kinda odd, as I feel detached to the main story even when you factor in that the Shoma-Himari-Kanba triangle are all childhood friends. I dunno, Shoma is too much of a wuss right now, while Kanba is pursuing an ideal where he thinks Himari would be happy rather than what she is trying to say. In any case, both are NOT taking into consideration what Himari really wants.

Heck, I felt way more during the cliffhanger in where Himari just dropped dead and had to be rushed to the hospital. Now that Himari has indeed faded from existence, I was just kinda meh.

This has never been about Himari for Kanba. He loves her, but it's always been a possessive love. He's doing this for himself.

As for Yuri and Tabuki, I got a sort of benediction vibe from their story. I think Yuri gave Ringo her half of the diary and effectively withdrew herself and Tabuki from the game. Will Tabuki live? Who knows - but in any case those two, at least, seem to have found peace.

ndqanh_vn

2011-12-09 03:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako
(Post 3893696)

On the contrary, I don't think Penguindrum is the sort of universe where anyone is beyond redemption. It certainly won't be free, and Kanba may not be able to get it in this lifetime, but it's not foreclosed to him.

Heck Sanetoshi is pretty well beyond redemption in my opinion. Actually in the end what the hell is he trying to gain? I still think his existence is a metaphor to all bad deals of the past that are still haunting people.

Still 2 more episodes. Could it really end well? I really doubt it. It's a good show, but I hope it would have the perfect ending that brings it close to Utena level. Because it's too good a story to be wasted.

And really, I don't want to see Himari back from the death once more time. Three times is stretching it.

Kazu-kun

2011-12-09 03:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by ndqanh_vn
(Post 3893735)

Heck Sanetoshi is pretty well beyond redemption in my opinion.

I don't think he needs redemption, not being human and all that lol.

I agree about Himari. If she's dead, I hope she'll stay that way for good this time around.