BETHLEHEM, West Bank  Thousands of Christians from the world over packed Manger Square in Bethlehem Monday to celebrate the birth of Jesus in the ancient West Bank town where he was born.

For their Palestinian hosts, this holiday season was an especially joyous one, with the hardships of the Israeli occupation that so often clouded previous Christmas Eve celebrations eased by the United Nations' recent recognition of an independent state of Palestine.

snip

In his pre-Christmas homily, Twal said the road to actual freedom was still long, but this year's festivities were doubly joyful, celebrating "the birth of Christ our Lord and the birth of the state of Palestine."

"The path (to statehood) remains long, and will require a united effort," added Twal, a Palestinian citizen of Jordan, at the patriarchate's headquarters in Jerusalem's Old City.

"Patriarch Fouad Twal (Arabic: البطريرك فؤاد طوال‎) (born 23 October 1940 in Madaba, Jordan[1]) is a Palestinian Archbishop of the Roman Catholic Church, serving as the Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem since June 2008. Twal is also the Grand Prior of the Knights of the Equestrian Order of the Holy Sepulchre of Jerusalem and serves as the President for the Assembly of Catholic Ordinaries of the Holy Land."

snip

"On 29 June 2008, Fouad Twal received the pallium at the hands of Pope Benedict XVI at a Mass in the Basilica of Saint Peter.[2]"

"Patriarch Twal says that freedom of movement for priests and religious between these regions is a primary pastoral concern.

We receive a lot of help and we are grateful but at the same time we say we need more. What we need is peace. We dont only to be a begging Church, we dont want to be beggars with a licence. I dont like this. We need a political horizon, its time to put an end to the Wall, the Checkpoints, its time for a Palestinian State, its time for an end to our problems with visas. The majority of our priests, nuns, schools, families are in Jordan. We need a link to Jordan we need to be able to move with freedom and liberty for our pastoral work. I am not speaking about politics, lets leave politics to the politicians, I am a bishop, we want to move for our pastoral work and we are handicapped.

"Last week, in his pre-Christmas press conference, Twal praised the UN decision to upgrade Palestinian status, calling it a "step towards peace and stability in the region.""

""Israel can now negotiate on equal state-to-state terms for the good of all," he told reporters, saying the Palestinian issue remained "the cause of all conflicts in the region," and urging US President Barack Obama to take "immediate action" to push the peace process forward."

"In the weeks leading up to Christmas, the Palestinians have seen Israel move forward with settlement activity, including around Bethlehem."

"Last week alone, Israel moved forward with plans for over 5,000 new settler homes, most of them in annexed east Jerusalem, and more than 2,500 of them in the Givat HaMatos neighbourhood at the entrance to Bethlehem."

"The Palestinians say part of the new settlement activity is intended to punish them for the UN upgrade bid, which was fiercely opposed by Israel and Washington."

"But Xavier Abu Eid, an advisor to the Palestine Liberation Organisation, said this year's celebration of Christmas would be particularly meaningful for Palestinians nonetheless."

""At Christmas, we celebrate the birth of the prince of hope and the prince of peace and the Palestinian people have been hoping for 64 years to achieve a just peace," he told AFP."

"On April 1st, The Vatican announced that it "favors a Labor victory" in the June 1992 general elections in Israel."

"On April 15th, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, one of the highest ranking diplomats at The Vatican, visits Israel for the first time but only meets with Jerusalem Mayor Teddy Kollek."

Pope Benedict XVI and Judaism

"Shortly after his election the Pontiff visited the Cologne synagogue where, speaking to Jewish leaders, he condemned Nazi ideology as "insane" and committed to strengthening ties of "friendship" between the Catholic Church and Jews.[3] However, despite much praise from Jewish leaders across Europe, Benedict received criticism from Israel for not "singling out the Jewish state as a victim of terrorism".[4]"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI_and_Judaism

two things pissed me off this weekend. A History Channel Show on Mary where she was described as a “Palestinian” woman. And a Priest at my parish who called Jesus a “Palestinian” Jew. This guy lived across the street from Anne Frank on Van Geough Blvd. in Amsterdam (I KID YOU NOT!) You'd think he'd recognize it happening again.

Alas, there are some real wolves in sheeps’ clothing... evil, anti-Christian assho!es parading around in clerical robes...
these can be found both within the RC church and in some other denominations...

I do not believe merely citing this particularly satanic jerk of a “priest” is necessarily an “anti-Papist screed.” Each and every one of these shi!heads needs to be reproved, vigorously repoved. And since they mis-use their ecclesiastical posts in such public ways to spread this evil filth, our reproval must needs be also public.

This is necessary if only to defend or be true to Christian faith.

ps:
That this idiot is also delusional about his so-called “pali state” is, in my book, besides the point. Anyway, if he ever got his “pali state” (which he of course will not, at least not in the land of Israel), he’d be among the first to have his throat slit and his church bombed to rubble by his socalled “pali” Islamoterrorista friends. (Strange how that works, isn’t it...)

Well, I generally have always ignored Catholic sermons and focused more on the Communion. This intelligent decision was made in 1970 after hearing a sermon on Simon and Garfunkel’s song “The Sounds of Silence."

Well, this is the second time during Christmas week that a fellow freeper has tried to show that Catholics are anti-Israel and anti-Semitic. (I’m not saying this particular freeper who posted this.) Maybe I’m too sensitive.

ps: a local friend points out that this fellow is already under the gun (or sword) of “pali” terroristas ....
so that if he lacks sufficient faith (or guts, or cajones) to speak the truth... it will be explained as “looking out to protect his flock from mass murders at the hands of the Islamic murder gangs”

perhaps we can cut this guy a little slack (just a little?) on the grounds that maybe his faith is not quite at the level of the Christian martyrs of yore...

There is a problem with a handful of clerics in the Mid East particularly, a problem that the Vatican has yet to really fix. (Similar with the problem with certain American politicians claiming to be “RC” and pushing abortion on a mass scale like Pelosi... ) And it was the same with some critics of the Vatican in the 1930’s and 40’s for “not speaking up enough” against the Nazi mass murders. (Although the Vatican did save several thousand lives in a quieter manner.)

I have given this much thought over the years. It could possibly be that the Holy See just actually does not have the power to keep so many errant souls in check??? (It sure would be a big job for the Pope to reprove so many clerics and politicians and...and.... )

I really don’t know. Meanwhile, we are stuck with these “statements” that go against Biblical or Church teachings... each year we seem to get these or similar statements, largely from the same sources I think, and it is most distressing ...

I certainly don’t have a problem bashing misguided (and sometimes evil) priests. My problem is with some (I said SOME!) Evangelicals here who wish to drive a wedge between themselves and Catholics and are using anti-semitism as the stake.

Those are pretty harsh words for a man whose only crime is arguing that people whose ancestors have dwelt in a place for thousands of years deserve a homeland with political autonomy.

A successor of the apostles, reasoning from moral principles, observes that the dispossessed too are entitled to justice, notwithstanding the inconvenience it may pose to those who mean to dispossess them even further. He has my support.

>> Alas, there are some real wolves in sheeps clothing... evil, anti-Christian assho!es parading around in clerical robes... these can be found both within the RC church and in some other denominations... I do not believe merely citing this particularly satanic jerk of a priest is necessarily an anti-Papist screed. Each and every one of these shi!heads needs to be reproved, vigorously repoved. And since they mis-use their ecclesiastical posts in such public ways to spread this evil filth, our reproval must needs be also public. This is necessary if only to defend or be true to Christian faith. <<

In this case, the Catholic Cardinal is a palestinian arab. It's not surprising to learn where his sympathies lie in the Israeli debate. I would expect nothing different if they interviewed an Orthodox Christian cleric who was a palestinian arab, or a protestant pastor who was a palestinian arab. Ethnicity trumps religion, they support their "fellow" palestians.

History does not agree with many of those statements, but he would have my support if the so-called palis were all Christian or at least peaceful people. As long as he sides with anti-Christian, anti-Jewish terrorists heLl-bent on killing more and more innocent people, his sympathies are way, way off base, and especially for a Christian cleric. (Remember history, the Muslims rejected that old deal and tried a half-dozen times to “drive the Jews into the sea”. History has its consequences, as they say, and the Islamicist already control tons of land (including 2/3 of mandatory “palestine” anyway). But without rehashing all the facts over and over, just because someone uses appealing or deceptive words to attract sympathy of good-hearted people does not mean they’re being honest or genuine with us. By their deeds ye shall know them

>> There is a problem with a handful of clerics in the Mid East particularly, a problem that the Vatican has yet to really fix. <<

The only problem I see is this guy holds the rank of "Major Archbishop" and the title of "Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem". Given the Christians are less than 2% of the population of Jerusalem, and most of them are Eastern Orthodox or protestant (and even among the Catholics, which are around 1% of Jerusalem's population, most are from the Melkite Greek Catholic Church or Maronite Church, NOT the latin-rite Roman Catholic Church), it makes little sense to give this guy so much clout. The only reason they'd really need a "Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem" is an honorary title bestowed because of the city's historic ties to the founding of Christianity and the Catholic Church. I could understand if this guy was "Monsignor Fouad Twal, honorary Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem" and merely a figurehead, but not making him a "Major Archbishop".

As for Fouad Twal himself being pro-Palestian statehood and/or anti-Jewish, that couldn't be helped. You're about as likely to find a pro-Jewish Palestinian Christian as finding a Sinn Fein member who is against Irish independence.

((((Sigh.)))) It's complicated. In the OT, the term "Philistia" is used 10 times, but its bounaries are undefined: probably Southern Levant, around the coastal cities of Gaza, Ashdod, and Ashkelon. During the late Roman empire (up to about 390 AD) Palæstina was a Roman province; the whole of the Levant (today's states of Lebanon, Syria, Israel, and Palestine) was all called Syria Palæstina.

Borders shifting back and forth under the Byzantines, Ottomans etc., Palæstina was always a province, never an independent state as far as I know, unless you go way WAY back before 700 BC to the Philistines, who lived in cities around Gaza before the Assyrian conquest.

My point: "Palestinian" is a very ambiguous term.

About Mary: it would be (geographically) accurate to say that as an inhabitant of Nazareth, Mary was Galilean; it would be (racially) accurate to say she was of the tribe of Judah and the house of David. Otherwise (politically?) she was taxed under Coele-Syria, Roman Province of Iudea, Kingdom of Herod.

"Palestinian" doesn't have to be a politically-charged word; but of course the PA and Hamas will make it so.

17
posted on 12/26/2012 12:28:04 PM PST
by Mrs. Don-o
(May the Lord bless you, may the Lord keep you, May He turn to you His countenance and give you peace)

Yes u are correct. Even if he speaks for his flock he has a very very small number of sheep. Offices (and titles) can live on long after they’re justified in any large bureaucratic organization. Didn’t we have a bureau of tea-tasters or something in washDC until quite recently? We still have a dept of agriculture which was supposed to be a temporary expedient. The Church still has some mideval military orders, too, I think?

I certainly dont have a problem bashing misguided (and sometimes evil) priests. My problem is with some (I said SOME!) Evangelicals here who wish to drive a wedge between themselves and Catholics and are using anti-semitism as the stake.

Historically variable traditions and doctrines of men is the "wedge". Christ is not divided.

Thank goodness we live in America, or what's left of it, and can worship at the altar of our choice!

20
posted on 12/26/2012 12:51:53 PM PST
by haffast
(Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all. -Abe Lincoln)

You're about as likely to find a pro-Jewish Palestinian Christian as finding a Sinn Fein member who is against Irish independence.

. Robert Kennedy came across one of those pesky Palestinian Christians. Sirhan Sirhan -"I am a Christian. My whole family is Christian....We have been Christians for at least 800 years. We are Palestinian Christians."-Tom

...this year's festivities were doubly joyful, celebrating "the birth of Christ our Lord and the birth of the state of Palestine. The path (to statehood) remains long, and will require a united effort," added Twal, a Palestinian citizen of Jordan, at the patriarchate's headquarters in Jerusalem's Old City

24
posted on 12/26/2012 7:03:24 PM PST
by SunkenCiv
(Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)

"The International Catholic-Jewish Historical Commission (ICJHC), a group comprised of three Jewish and three Catholic scholars, was appointed in 1999 by the Holy See's Commission for Religious Relations with the Jews. In October of 2000, the group of scholars finished their review of the Vatican's archives, and submitted their preliminary findings to the Comission's then-President, Cardinal Edward I Cassidy. Their report, entitled "The Vatican and the Holocaust," laid to rest several of the conventional defenses of Pope Pius XII."

"The often-espoused view that the Pontiff was unaware of the seriousness of the situation of European Jewry during the war was definitively found to be inaccurate. Numerous documents demonstrated that the Pope was well-informed about the full extent of the Nazi's anti-Semitic practices. A letter from Konrad von Preysing, Bishop of Berlin, that proved that the Pope was aware of the situation as early as January of 1941, particularly caught the attention of the commission. In that letter, Preysing confirms that "Your Holiness is certainly informed about the situation of the Jews in Germany and the neighboring countries. I wish to mention that I have been asked both from the Catholic and Protestant side if the Holy See could not do something on this subject...in favor of these unfortunates." The letter, which was a direct appeal to the Pope himself, without intermediaries, provoked no response. In 1942, an even more compelling eyewitness account of the mass-murder of Jews in Lwow was sent to the Pope by an archbishop; this, too, garnered no response."

"The commission also revealed several documents that cast a negative light on the claim that the Vatican did all it could to facilitate emigration of the Jews out of Europe. Internal notes meant only for Vatican representatives revealed the opposition of Vatican officials to Jewish emigration from Europe to Palestine. "The Holy See has never approved of the project of making Palestine a Jewish home...[because] Palestine is by now holier for Catholics than for Jews." Some Catholic higher-ups violated this position of the Vatican by helping Jews to immigrate when they were able to; most did not."http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/pius.html

Said priest is a HERETIC. And I am being serious. He is retranslating the Bible for political ends in a manner which undermines Jesus’s life. He was the proclaimed “King of the Jews”, not leader of the Roman colonists in Gaza. He was supposedly heir of David, the man who crushed teh Greek Sea Peoples/Pelesht.

About Mary: it would be (geographically) accurate to say that as an inhabitant of Nazareth, Mary was Galilean; it would be (racially) accurate to say she was of the tribe of Judah and the house of David Miriam was an Israelite of the Judahite Tribe, living in Roman Occupied Israel. No one called this area "Palestine" during the life of Jesus or his family. This came about in a campaign of cultural genocide by the Romans following the Bar Kochba revolt.

You're right, I think it was called "Syria Palestina" after the Bar Kochba rebellion. My point is that the identification of that very much disputed parcel of land switched back and fort a lot. According to the Jewish Encyclopedia, the term Palestine referred to the entire area between Phoenicia and Egypt in 5th century BC. Herodotus wrote of a 'district of Syria, called Palaistinê" including the Judean mountains and the Jordan Rift Valley.

I didn't mean to slight the Jewish Kingdoms, not at all. But even their identity shifts. For instance, Herod the Great, the "King of the Jews" during Miriam's time, was actually an Idumean and a tributary to the Romans.

(It's kinda like when people say St. Nicholas was from Myra "in Turkey." Well no, better to say "in Anatolia" or "in the province of Asia" or "in Asia Minor." During his times there were no Turks there.)

During Miriam's time there was no truly Jewish king.

29
posted on 12/27/2012 5:17:53 AM PST
by Mrs. Don-o
(May the Lord bless you, may the Lord keep you, May He turn to you His countenance and give you peace)

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