Nebraska v. PSU. Who to root for?

This does not have anything to do with the scandal so don't worry. As far as our B1G title hopes go, will it help us if Nebraska wins this game? I know it's a long shot for us to get to the title game, but I tend to have that "anything is possible" mentality.

how? Nebraska has 2 conference losses already, and we still play them...it doesn't make a difference for us if they go 5-3 or 4-4 in conference. And if they beat us, our (already small) chances at winning the division are completely gone anyways

While this game might mean little to us directly it means a lot to our fanbase and they don't know it. If Penn State loses this game...Ohio is prime shape to make it to the B1G Championship. Seriously.

Picture this: PSU loses this week and then gets beat next week by Ohio. Ohio holds the Wisky and PSU tie breaker going into the The Game....it pisses me off that this is even plausible after how bad they looked at the beginning of the season and the fact that they throw the ball all of 10 times a game.

Chris is the ONLY voice of reason on that site! Have you seen the board turn on Chris whenever he says anything remotely critical of Paterno? The hatred and vile things that that board is producing is insane.

No wonder the Paterno and administrators thought they can get away with hiding a pedophile. These so called fans will support them no matter what shame they bring to the institution.

The thread where they openly cheered the rioting after Joe Pa was fired was particularly disgusting. I'd hoped they're the lunatic fringe until the last couple days, but I'm more and more convinced that they represent the prevailing mindset in Happy Valley.

Actually I found their blogs a hell of a lot more mature than the OSU and MSU fans, with intelligent discussion, no swearing, and no "yes but he wins" type talk. What a refreshing change from "we own you " ," I did your mom" ,"Hoke sucks my d___", etc.

Being that Nebraska is in our division and PSU is in the other division, PSU winning would be what you would want to root for regarding our chances. However, MSU would have to lose 2 games and us win out for us to go to the BTCG...

For all you people saying the CCG is such a long shot, what makes you think MSU won't lose to Iowa and NW? Crazier things have happened, and they suck on the road. I think they lose this weekend and play a close one in Evanston. NW seems to be a better team than when we played them.

If they lose those two games, and assuming they beat Indiana, they would finish the regular season 8-4, with a 5-3 B1G record. If that happens, we absolutely MUST win out to win the division championship. We have to have a better conference record than MSU to win the division, since they would win a tiebreaker with us.

Nebraska. I cannot root for Penn State under any circumstances right now. For me anyways all "you just can't blame the players" nonsense went out the window when the fans held a protest in favor of people who protect child molesters.

I am rooting against the entire program, not specific coaches. I find it beyond believable that Sandusky's behavior went unnoticed by those around him. Yesterday Barry Switzer (yes that Barry Switzer) made what I thought was an interesting observation. He said coaches are a VERY close knit community and there was no way in Hell that Sandusky could do the things he did without others being aware (I'm paraphrasing). Which means that many coaches on that team had to see and notice "odd" behavior between Sandusky and young boys (like taking them to Bowl games and staying in the same room for example) and nobody spoke up.

So am I being "unfair" to the players? Maybe - but they are playing the game tomorrow "for Joe" so they obviously do not share my outrage at what happened to the children. For that reason I alone I will root against them. Tomorrow and every game they play in for a long, long time.

You find it beyond believable? Why would they not have been summoned to go before the Grand Jury then? Blindly spewing blame doesn't make it true. Until I see evidence of what your claiming like we have with Joe and McQueary and the higher ups in the AD you've got nothing.

There's no quotes here, you are being unfair to players that came to campus more than a decade after this pervert was on the sidelines. The justice you're looking for is in the coutroom not the football field. You're no better than those students in State College protesting at this point.

Here's the quote from Switzer. I guess he's no better than the students protesting too - I mean what the hell does HE know about a coaching community?

And you are COMPLETELY missing my point. When the students and the players say they are protesting/playing the game "for Joe" they lose the "you can't blame us" protective mantle as they are taking side themselves. And I disagree strongly with their side.

I give up. I'm guessing you guys are still students and not fathers yet so in some ways we are speaking a vastly different language. If you truly believe that Sandusky's behavior was honestly unknown by Paterno and the rest of the coaching staff for the past 17 years (it started in 1994 or sooner) there is nothing I can or anyone else can say that will convince you otherwise. Let's be honest here - Switzer was speaking about a coaching community - something he knows far more about than either of us and yet you choose to reject it.

Let's watch the news developments over the next few weeks and see whose version of reality comes closer to the actual truth here. The old cynic (me) or the youthful humanitarians.

I have 2 children and 4 grandchildren. Deciding whether or not to root for the outcome of a football game has nothing to do with the adult criminals and all to do with the kids on the team who had nothing to do with it. And if you don't like that they want to still play for Joe then maybe you better remember that they are students and don't have the perspective that adults might have.

Ok you've got me beat by 8 years so I will defer to the wisdom of my elders.

Seriously though this situation reminds me in some ways of a Michigan home game several years ago in the Carr era. The first half ended with some of the God-awfullest play calling Mike Debord ever dialed up and when the half ended me and about 85,000 of my closest friends boo'd like hell. Not at the players - at the COACHES and the screwed up playing calling. Yet at the end of the game in the Presser Carr was apalled that we boo'd the team as they were giving it their all and the home crowd should never boo the players. I screamed at my radio - "we were'nt booing the players ...we were booing YOU and your idiot OC."

In some ways I see the game tomorrow like that. I realize the players are "collateral damage" if you will but I can see no possible way to cheer for a program and a coaching staff that allowed what allegedly happen to happen.

i cant speak for anyone but myself but I was just booing. And it wasnt the players who were complaining...it was Carr. He obviously thought the fans were booing the players and not the stretch dive right.....stretch dive left....waggle incomplete punt play calling we were being treated to drive and freaking drive.

One last try. I never said I believe Joe and McQueary didn't know. I said they did because we have heard evidence to support it and I think they should be gone. If I hear evidence implicating other members of the staff I will absolutely proclaim their guilt and say that they should be gone as well. I just can't bear the idea of charging innocent people with child rape based on nothing but someone else's knowledge of what coaching is like.

No matter what development comes in the next few weeks I'll feel fine because I'm weighing the facts we have now to make a decision. I believe Penn State has to wipe the slate clean in order to begin rebuilding their program but I will not hold every coach fired as an accessory to child rape without SOME proof otherwise.

I do agree with that. I honestly don't think every coach is an accessory to this crime but I do believe some knew (or at least had doubts) but I do agree with you that you need proof on some level to do anything else in a court of law.

Good point.

But it doesnt change my wanting to see them lose tomorrow. And the week after that and the week after that.......

This isn't about coaching this is about child molestation. I don't think Barry Switzer knows shit about child molestation how about that?

Again the players have zero to do with this scandal, they are collateral damage their season and most of their college careers are already ruined by this. What would you like them to say? You're welcome to disagree with what they are saying, in fact I do as well, but to say now you can blame them is just plain stupid.

1. I dont' "blame" the students nor the players. I said they cant play the "you can't blame us" card when the protest in favor of something I oppose. Once they take a stand you can claim neutrality on the issue any longer.

2. While he may not be on the sidelines on Saturday McQuery is still very much on the Penn State coaching staff and is still drawing a paycheck from them so you can't act as if he's not part of the organization right now. And i very much am rooting against him. The path he chose in the locker room in 2002 and his turning a blind eye to Sandusky over the past 9 years makes my skin crawl.

Don't forget the interim coach on Saturday said he is completely in support of this great man JoePa and wishes he could be there. That whole coaching staff should be shitcanned just like JoePa. I honestly don't know how anyone on that athletic department can support JoePa. Best case scenario, JoePa told all of hid staff that sick fuck was banned from bringing children to the facilities and they just said ok and didn't think twice about it. Worst case he kept it from every one of them. Either way, JoePa and that coaching staff are a bunch of cowards

You mean the one coach who got fired? Doesn't matter anyway, would you hope for a kid to suffer for a mistake his parents made? We are all digusted by this, but the players had no part in it. If I had a son on the PSU football team, I'd be really pissed at how you keep lumping them up in this mess. Instead I'm just little annoyed.

I also want to Nebraska to win but not because I feel the PSU kids deserve to lose.

I cannot decide which way to go. Part of me wants PSU to win so that the players can enjoy something after such a sh-tty week. However, all the players are stating publicly that they are playing this game for Paterno, which I disagree with for various reasons. Also, part of me wants PSU to lose because I don't want the Athletic Department to enjoy anything right now. But then I feel bad because the players didn't do anything wrong.

Mostly, though, its a game I'm DVRing because its like a train wreck - can't look away but feel bad watching:

Just curious, what is the point in "sh-tty" thing? If you don't want to curse use "horrible" if you do want to curse, let fly. Think about it, would you have gotten in any less trouble as a kid if you're mom or teacher saw you took the "i" out and wrote "sh-tty"?

The players are not to blame for what happened. At the same time, it was the football coaches and the administration that let it continue to happen, while continuing to earn big bucks for the university by sweeping the problem under the rug.

From the rooting interests. I mean, I'm not sure anyone is really looking for Penn State to get a silver lining this weekend.

But as for the "division" it really doesn't matter a lick, because even assuming MSU loses two, Nebraska already has two losses, and for us to have a chance WE'RE going to have to beat them, which will give them 3, so we don't need them to lose to other teams. Unless you're trying to figure out 3 loss tiebreakers, in which case - good luck.

The situation at PSU is obviously horrible, but to me it completely transcends football. I can't really look at their football team as of now (without JoePa, McQueary, or Sandusky) and blame them at all for the actions (and inactions) of a few. The scandal and the football team are in a different universe for me.

I agree. We need Nebraska to win out, except when they play us, and we need to win out. It seems like the chances of MSU losing to either Iowa or NW are decent, but the chances of them losing both games is not good. So for us to go to the championship game we probably need a three-way tie in the division with a team that a) we beat and b) beat MSU i..e, Nebraska. I don't remember all the tiebreakers, but I know one of them is BCS rankings, which should also favor us rooting for Nebraska because it will help our BCS ranking by beating them.

Let me break it down for you, you said "no three way tie possibilities", I said, no quite completely true there could be a three way tie at 3 losses. You counter, "Not if MSU doesn't lose 2 more games ." Well, duhh -- to get to the scenario laid out (a three way tie at 3 losses), of course MSU has to lose two more since they currently stand at one conference loss (3 losses at end of yr - 1 loss currently = 2 more losses to get there). Then you go on to say "Not if it's with Iowa and MSU and Iowa has beaten us and MSU." Again not true, could be a three way tie at three loses with Iowa, MSU and Michigan if Iowas beats MSU and then loses another game. I think what you may mean is Michigan doesn't go the the BTCG under that scenario, which is true, but is different from "no three way tie scenarios."

Finally, you said that both MSU and Iowa need to lose two more and M has to win out. Again, not true. There might be some other mathematically possible way for Michigan to get to the BTCG, but, yes in all likelihood, M needs to win out that then requires MSU needs to lose two and but it only takes one (not two) more Iowa losses.

Further, if MSU drops two (including to Iowa) and Michigan beats Nebraska and wins the other two and Nebraska beats Iowa and PSU and loses to M and Iowa beats MSU and Purdue and loses to Nebraska you end you with a 4 way tie at three loses.

Of course none of this is likely, but being unlikely is different from not being possible.

All interesting points. Here is another: do we want Nebraska coming off a win or a loss when they come to Ann Arbor next week? Obviously, Iowa losing to Minnesota did not help us.

It probably doesn't matter. I will hope (root is too strong a word) that PSU wins to help screw over OSU and also hand a loss to a team in our division. However, I think Nebraska losing this week might harden them for next week. Unless it breaks them.

Easy - Ped State. We want Neb to lose as many games as possible as their introduction into the BIG and we also want Ped State to distance themselves as much as possible from OSU to keep OSU out of the BIG championship game.

I haven't gone through the tiebreakers in detail, but I think the only scenario where Michigan gets another loss and still wins the division is if Michigan beats Nebraska, MSU loses to Iowa and NW, Iowa loses to Nebraska and Purdue, and Nebraska beats PSU. That leaves Iowa with 4 losses and Michigan, MSU, and Nebraska with 3. MSU drops out for all 3 losses in the division (or having 4 losses if they lose to Indiana too). Michigan wins on a head-to-head against Nebraska.

Everything else assumes that Michigan wins out, which puts Michigan at 2 losses and Nebraska at 3 or more. Basically, I don't see where PSU winning helps us.

While mathematically it helps if Nebraska loses - pending other improbable collapses, of course - part of me thinks that the otucome of this game will get somewhat overshadowed by other things. More specific discussion has its own thread, of course. I would hope, if nothing else, that nothing unfortunate happens to anyone, for that's the LAST thing anyone needs.

We lose to Illinois or OSU, MSU loses @ Iowa & @ NW, Nebraska only loses to us, and Iowa loses to Purdue (MSU eliminated with 3 division losses and we beat Nebraska, so we advance)

If Iowa beats Purdue in scenario 2, we have a four team tie and MSU and UM would be eliminated based on head-to-head records of 1-2.

The other fourway scenario is if once again MSU loses to both Iowa and NW, we lose to Nebraska but win our other two, Nebraska loses to PSU, and Iowa loses to only Nebraska. We once again would be eliminated, this time with a 0-3 head-to-head record.

A threeway tie between us MSU and Nebraska is not possible at 2 losses. We lose any 3 way tie between Iowa and MSU as we lost to both of them.

Besides the aforementioned necessary 2 losses by MSU and 1 loss by Iowa (combined with Michigan winning out), I think the only other B1G teams that could have a potential BCS impact on us is the Wiscy/PSU game. I think both of those teams are the only two teams besides Michigan that could end up with no more than 2 losses and not be the B1G champion (and thus might be ripe for as the second B1G in the BCS). If Wiscy wins out and PSU only loses to Wiscy, PSU to BTCG and a 2 (heartbreaking) loss Wiscy team awaits. If PSU wins out and loses the BTCG, they would also have only 2 losses (Bama and BTCG). Therefore, I think we'd want a) both Wiscy and PSU to lose again before the BTCG b)we want PSU to lose twice or c) PSU to win out included BTCG.

I am as disgusted by what happened at PSU as anyone. But, we need to take a step back and realize that the kids on the team, the alum, the students and the fans had absolutely nothing to do with this horror. Tw bad actors were the school admin, the AD, Paterno and his staff.

If anything, the kids on this team - who had nothing to do with and no knowledge of these events - are ancillary victims. They chose to go to Penn state to be a part of what is perceived to be a clean program steeped in honorable traditions. Mow, after working their asses off, they ate part of a program that will forever live in infamy.

As humans, we are horrified by this story, and it is human nature to look for someone to take out our feelings on, but the team - kids between 18-22 who have done nothing wrong - is not the perpetrator. Take it out on the admin, the school and on the bad actors, not the kids.

Caveat: if the school would have allowed paterno or any of the others to stay on, I would feel differently. Also, don't mistake this as me not having rage a Penn state. As a father of two boys,I jar plenty. Just not at the players.

for PSU fans. None at all. From the duchebag who stood on the steps with his Appy State t-shirt on at Michigan stadium in 2007 and was still talking sh#t after Michigan beat them. To the idiots who spit, throw mustard, and freaking urine on the opposing teams players, band and fans at PSU.

Some of the internets biggest users of the meme scUM are PSU fans, screw them, look who the real scum is now.

Who all benefit by PSU winning. Taking it out on them means there's going to be some collateral damage. And a lot of them aren't "innocent" for enabling a footballgarchy where no one wants to upset the apple cart. Could it have happen anywhere? Sure. But it happened there. Now is no time for their "healing".

On Friday afternoon, according to two team sources, new receivers coach Kermit Buggs gathered his players in a room at the PSU football complex and allowed them to talk with McQueary on a speaker phone.

we've played I haven't given any thought to the actual game prior to kickoff. If you visit our boards, you'd see I'm not alone.

The only good thing that's come out of this whole tragedy is that many, many people who would never think about terrible things like child abuse--your average college football fans---have had their awareness raised, even if it took something as ultimately trivial and meaningless as a game to bring their attention to an important issue.

The top Husker fan site, HuskerMax, (highly recommended) started a movement for Cornhusker fans to join their Nittany Lions rivals in support of RAINN.

There's been many thoughtful and insightful posts on mgoblog concerning the PSU situation, why not "go blue" now---and throw your considerable numbers and resources into supporting RAINN with your conference rivals. Wow, what if the whole B1G got behind this?

Is it necessary, or even desirable, to tar everybody attending an institution whose leaders failed with the same broad brush?

People love to have scapegoats, love to rush to justice, and want to shoehorn complex issues into neat little boxes that are easily defined and categorized. I get that.

But life is a little more complex. We do not benefit from a rush to justice. We do benefit from a careful evaluation of the facts as they are revealed over time.

The players on the PSU football team didn't butt-rape little boys in the shower. Therefore, they shouldn't be punished or castigated. I have little doubt that the facts were kept from them.

What will happen - and should happen - remains to be seen. We sometimes seem to forget that there is a presumption of innocence in this country for a number of truly good reasons, not the least of which is that the facts can be fairly and dispassionately examined.

All of this after-the-fact finger-pointing does no one any real good.

I'm going to root for Nebraska because I like Nebraska, not because I dislike Penn State, and because I don't want Michigan to have to play a pissed-off Nebraska team.