During my interview last night with 27-year CIA analyst Ray McGovern on the Mike Malloy Show (which I've been guest hosting all this week), the man who used to personally deliver the CIA's Presidential Daily Briefings to George Bush Sr. and Ronald Reagan, among other Presidents, offered an extraordinarily chilling thought --- particularly coming from someone with his background.

In a conversation at the end of the hour (audio and transcript below), as I was trying to pin him down for an opinion on whether or not he felt it was appropriate for CIA Director Leon Panetta to have reportedly attempted to block a lawful investigation into torture and other war crimes committed by the CIA, McGovern alluded to a book about the assassination of John F. Kennedy, and noted he felt it likely that both Panetta and President Obama may have reason to fear certain elements of the CIA.

"Let me just leave you with this thought," he said, "and that is that I think Panetta, and to a degree President Obama, are afraid --- I never thought I'd hear myself saying this --- I think they're afraid of the CIA."...

McGovern went on to note "the stakes are very high here," in relation to Attorney General Eric Holder's recently announced investigation of the CIA now under the direction of Panetta. "His main advisers and his senior staff are liable for prosecution for war crimes. The War Crimes statute includes very severe penalties, including capital punishment for those who, if under their custody, detainees die. And we know that at least a hundred have, so this is big stakes here."

"He makes a very very persuasive case that it was President Kennedy's, um, the animosity that built up between him and the CIA after the Bay of Pigs, and the Joint Chiefs of Staff, because he was reaching out to the Russians and so forth and so on. It's a very well-researched book and his conclusion is very alarming," the long-time CIA veteran noted in what turned out to be a chilling end to our interview in which he described "two CIAs".

One, he says, was created by President Truman to "give him the straight scoop without any fear or favor. And then its covert action arm, which really doesn't believe --- which doesn't belong in this agency." McGovern referred to that CIA "advisedly" as the President's "own personal gestapo" which acts without oversight by the Congressional committees once tasked to do so.

"And so if you're asking why Obama and Panetta are going very very kid-glove-ish with the CIA, I think part of the reason, or the explanation is they're afraid of these guys because these guys have a whole lot to lose if justice takes its course."

"So, it's pretty scary. Yes, it is," he concluded.

* * *

• The complete audio archive of the entire interview (appx. 37 mins.) can be download here or heard online here...

• The final few minutes (appx. 6 mins) containing the conversation described above, as transcribed below, can be heard here...

The transcript of the above-described 9/10/09 conversation between Brad Friedman and 27-year CIA analyst Ray McGovern on the Mike Malloy Show, follows below...

BRAD FRIEDMAN: Was it appropriate, in your opinion, for Panetta to try to block this lawful investigation into torture by Eric Holder's investigation. Is that the appropriate thing for a CIA Director to do?

RAY MCGOVERN: Well, you and I know that it's not appropriate if he's Director. If he sees his role as the agency's lawyer --- which apparently he does --- then there's nothing unlawful about him pleading their special causes. The stakes are very high here. His main advisers and his senior staff are liable for prosecution for war crimes. The War Crimes statute includes very severe penalties, including capital punishment...

BF: Yeah...

RM: ... for those who, if under their custody, detainees die. And we know that at least a hundred have, so this is big stakes here.

And let me just leave you with this thought, and that is that I think Panetta, and to a degree President Obama, are afraid --- I never thought I'd hear myself saying this --- I think they're afraid of the CIA.

And you look in history...look to the incredible book written recently by Jim Douglass, JFK and the Unspeakable. He makes a very very persuasive case that it was President Kennedy's, um, the animosity that built up between him and the CIA after the Bay of Pigs, and the Joint Chiefs of Staff, because he was reaching out to the Russians and so forth and so on. It's a very well-researched book and his conclusion is very alarming.

And so if you're asking why Obama and Panetta are going very very kid-glove-ish, with the CIA, I think part of the reason, or the explanation is they're afraid of these guys because these guys have a whole lot to lose if justice takes its course. And that's why I think Attorney General Holder is to be applauded.

I'm really just delighted to have somebody from The Bronx, where I grew up, try to do something to wipe out the blot that Colin Powell has put on The Bronx.

BF: Even though its a narrow investigation, you still applaud it. But Ray McGovern, 27-year CIA analyst, you're saying that there is reason to be concerned about the CIA --- that Barack Obama should be concerned.

Having been there 27 years, I guess you know what you're talking about. Uh...but that's a chilling thought I gotta say, Ray.

RM: Well, read the book. James Douglass, JFK and the Unspeakable. Uh, Brad, as you probably know, there are two CIAs. Okay? The one that was set up by Truman to give him the straight scoop without any fear or favor. And then its covert action arm, which really doesn't believe --- which doesn't belong in this agency --- but is the one that is entitled, so to speak, by one sentence in the National Security Act of 1947 which says 'the Director of Central Intelligence shall perform such other functions and duties as the President shall direct.'

That gives the President the ability to use the CIA as his own personal gestapo --- and I use the word advisedly --- the only check on that are what used to be called the oversight committees of Congress, now they're called the overlooked committees of the Congress...

Don't stop now. There are more good typos: "capitol" punishment, instead of capital punishment (perhaps it involves having Joe Wilson yell at you during a joint session of Congress) and "kit" gloves, instead of kid gloves (being a knitter, I know all about kits for gloves, mittens, sweaters, caps, you name it, although I generally prefer to pick out my own yarn).

Seriously, though, I agreed with your sentiment last night, Brad. That whole thing really creeped me out. I'm going to have to think on it for awhile.

While you were on vacation I posted "On Conspiracy Theories" in which I quoted the sworn testimony provided by Marita Lorenz, Fidel Castro's former girlfriend who was recruited into the CIA by Watergate burglar Frank Sturgis.

Lorenz's deposition was taken by Mark Lane in Hunt vs. Liberty Lobby a libel action brought in U.S. District Court against former CIA officer Victor Marchetti and his publisher over a Marchetti article linking Hunt to the JFK assassination.

Lorenz testified that she, along with Frank Sturgis, Jack Patrick Hemming, Orlando Bosch and Alexander Rorke, Jr. traveled by way of a two-car caravan from Miami to Dallas in November 1963. One of the two cars was loaded with weapons.

Shortly after Lorenz and Sturgis arrived at a Dallas motel on November 21, 1963, Hunt showed up and handed an envelope filled with cash to Sturgis. Hunt remained for about forty-five minutes. Within an hour of Hunt’s departure another individual arrived at their motel room, Jack Ruby!

Lorenz, who had not been provided with the identity of the target of their operation, only knew that the operation was “big” and that she was to act as a decoy. Having second thoughts, she persuaded Sturgis to take her to the airport. She flew back to Miami.

Hunt’s lawyer, Edward Dunne, concerned with the impact this testimony would have upon his client’s contention that he was not in Dallas on November 22, 1963, did not know when to leave well enough alone. He specifically asked Lorenz whether she later spoke with Sturgis about the assassination. Sturgis had, telling her that she missed “the really big one.”

We killed the President that day. You could have been a part of it --- you know, part of history. You should have stayed. It was safe. Everything was covered in advance. No arrests, no real newspaper investigation. It was all covered, very professional.

A federal jury entered a verdict for Marchetti & Liberty Lobby. Although the jury foreperson explained they were convinced the CIA killed JFK and that Hunt was a part of it to a Miami reporter from a TV station owned by the Washington Post, her remarks went unreported in the corporate media.

Hunt, whose credibility was demolished on cross-examination, would later provide a death bed confession.

Lane, in Plausible Denial provides an assessment that is substantially similar to that offered by James Douglass.

Lane contends the CIA took out JFK because JFK, in the wake of the Bay of Pigs disaster, had planned to dismantle the CIA following an expected 1964 electoral victory and had issued National Security Action memorandum 263 on Oct. 2, 1963 containing a blueprint for a total withdrawal from Vietnam.

Lane asserts his view on Kennedy’s intent to dismantle the CIA was confirmed by Col. L. Fletcher Prouty, the Joint Chief’s head of special operations 1955-1963 and is supported by JFK’s firing of Allen Dulles the Director of Central Intelligence, Deputy Director Charles Cabell and Richard Bissell, Deputy Director of Plans, and by the issuance of a National Security Action memorandum which would have eliminated the CIA’s ability to initiate operations which required anything beyond the use of handguns.

Lane presents evidence that the CIA had successfully subverted both the Warren Commission proceedings and the subsequent investigation of both the Kennedy and Martin Luther King, Jr. assassinations by the House Select Committee on Assassinations.

The CIA cover-up was facilitated by its former director, Allen Dulles, who had been fired by President Kennedy only to be appointed as a key member of the Warren Commission by President Johnson.

The FBI’s man inside the Commission, according to Lane, was Gerald Ford, who illegally passed on top secret information to Hoover’s assistant, Cartha DeLoach, noting that FBI assistance was needed to bring two dissenting Commission members to the FBI’s view that the shots that killed JFK had been fired from the sixth floor window of the Texas School Book Depository.

Seeking the CIA’s protection from the escalating Watergate scandal, Nixon dispatched Haldeman to meet with Richard Helms. When he met with the usual CIA stonewalling, Haldeman told Helms that the “President asked me to tell you this entire affair may be connected to the Bay of Pigs….”

Helms, according to Haldeman, came unglued, gripping the arms of his chair and shouting that there was no connection. Haldeman, initially perplexed by Helms’s overreaction, observed: “It seems that in all those Nixon references to the Bay of Pigs he was referring to the Kennedy assassination.”

Haldeman went on to note that “after Kennedy was killed, the CIA launched a fantastic cover-up” and that “The CIA literally erased any connection between Kennedy’s assassination and the CIA.”

P.S. Orlando Bosch, identified by Lorenz, has been linked to the Contra supply operation in the 1980’s. He openly took credit for the bombing of a Cuban civilian airliner (See, Peter Dale Scott & Jonathan Marshall, Cocaine Politics (1991)). According to Ricardo Alarcon, President of the Cuban National Assembly, declassified State Department documents implicate Bosch in the assassination of Orlando Lettelier.

Today, thanks to a presidential pardon from George H.W. Bush, Bosch walks the streets of Miami, Florida, a free man.

Before the election on a Good Morning America interview between Ed Kennedy and Charlie Gibson, Kennedy was asked why he'd endorsed Obama after what had happened to his brother as footage of the the Bay of Pigs invasion played behind them.

So is there any agency or entity on the planet that can stand up to the CIA gestapo, or are we supposed to just accept that these criminal bastards have carte blanche to do whatever the fuck they want, and there will be no justice? I think they should be prosecuted to the fullest. Panetta should be removed. Holder should be removed. We need people in there who are not afraid to do their job, no matter what the risks are.

I was at the 9/11 film festival last night & tried to ask several times: why SHOULDN'T the politicians be afraidn since there have been so many plane crashes (wellstone, brown, callahan (?), etc.) And what can we do to SUPPORT the politicians in standing up. All of us are talking to each other to educate ourselves but why can't we sit down w/ our representatives and ask them: what do YOU need to get us out of this mess? I do think the silence of people like Ted Kennedy, John Kerry (instant capitulation in 2004!!! He has a family-he was probably ordered to step away from the fight after the election), and other folks with tons of money who should be able to do more is all we need to know. The guns are aimed constantly at most who could do what needs to be done. I think it IS we the people who are the only ones who can bring down the control infrastructure. But we gotta stop arguing and looking for all the evidence. There's so much out there I couldn't read all the books in five lifetimes with the evelyn woods course under my belt. Folks, they're poisoning our bodies, our minds, and our livelihood. What more do we need to know? We need to meet and to get our groups together and STOP WORKING, STOP PAYING TAXES, STOP BUYING, CLOSE OUT OUR 'INVESTMENTS' AND OUR BANK ACCOUNTS, WHEN WE STOP BELIEVING THAT THE DOLLAR EVEN EXISTS (IT'S JUST A CONCEPT-A GAMBLING TOOL, A BUNCH OF NONEXISTENT ELECTRONS AT THIS POINT), STOP BUYING THEIR DEATH MEDICINES (VACCINES, ANTIDEPRESSANTS, PAIN MEDS, ETC.), THEIR CRAP POISONED FOOD, AND THEIR DAMN OIL. When enough of us stop funding the monsters and the corporate psychopaths, the spigot to fund the war against our existence. Here's a suggestion. Do a google search and find out about the LITERAL, PHYSICAL NON-EXISTENCE of gold in the storage crypts in new york. Folks, the gold has been removed. The jig is up. We either figure out how close to the end of the line we are, and stop the monsters, or we drown. And maybe we already are gonna drown, because the ice caps are nearly gone. Face the FACTS in front of you! Take action, just because it's all that's left to do.

I agree Robin. Holder may be from Ray's hood, but he aint gonna do jack. We must dissolve the CIA, completely. No more secrets. Let State do everything above board. No more black ops. No more massive heroin production, nada. No more flying in crack to our inner cities...zilch.

Brad...you should do an expose' on Holder's old firm Covington and Burling. With my meager time and investigative talent I know they were invovled in Bush 2000 coup(right up your alley) also the RNC/Rove disappearing email case. I do not know what Eric's exact caseload was there but heard they paid him 2 mil. last year.

Not a chance in hell he will do a damn thing. Well.....maybe the CIA's version of poor inbred Lyndie England.....some poor foot soldier to fry for public consumption, but we all KNOW it will never go any higher as much as we all know it should go all the way to the top.

You think Dave Addington has any long leisurely European vacations planned?? A small(microscopic) moral victory we can savor until the bigger ones are won.

Those will take street action in the millions(peaceful) complete overhaul of our system, outlawing of both parties and nationalizing our airwaves. Impossible? No. Everything we can dream can and will be real when the actual facts of what happened on september eleventh are laid bare for everyone to see.

But one small quibble.....John Kerry????? Nobody had to threaten his poor little ketchup hag.

He was more than glad to concede to his Skull-n-Bones brother. All his Masters had to do was deem it so. Puppets do not ask questions, they obey.

Also, on a lighter note.....Ms. Knitter, maybe a long long time ago the etymology of the slang term WAS "kit gloves".....maybe, somewhere in the foggy distant history. But in my 46 years, in my geographical regions it has always been Kid Gloves. But I'm always glad to learn new things

...a president can make inroads, can slow the train. But not by getting himself shot or otherwise booted. Shrewdness is absolutely essential. Frank Church made inroads that can never be taken away. Revelations of outrageous crimes, like Brad and Sibel are working on, once out of the bag, cannot be lost.

There is this story out there, which I haven't spent loads of time checking,

"A careful examination of the real evidence in this event shows that Ted Kennedy was framed in the killing of Mary Joe Kopechne and then his life and his children's lives threatened if he ever told the truth about what happened. The facts in the case and the conclusions that can be drawn from them are contained in a book by Boston researcher Robert Cutler"

and the last reference is footnoted as You the Jury --- Robert Cutler --- Self Published --- 1974

We also know that Hunt's son Saint John Hunt told Alex Jones that when he was a boy, his father was watching the report of Bobby's death, and quipped about the murders.

"One of the things he [my father, E. Howard Hunt] liked to say around the house was 'let's finish the job --- let's hit Ted [Kennedy].'" --Saint John Hunt (the son of E. Howard Hunt), interviewed on The Alex Jones Show, 14 May 2007

As I remember it, the story was Teddy woke up in a motel, and the treat was that every single member of his extended family would be killed, as his nephew John Jr. was later to be, if he persisted in running for president. His chances were toast by then anyway, because of Kopechne's death. Kind of like a horse's head in bed with you.

First off, to bifurcate the CIA from the Federal Reserve or Wall Street or Big Oil or other major corporatists is absurd. Take a look at the Wall Streeter who founded the agency.

Look at the CIA as an international Pinkertons, breaking up actual democratic movements around the world for the benefit of their corporate ownership. And while that same role has been handled domestically by the FBI, the CIA and other intelligence agencies (like the NSA) have taken greater roles in the US.

To understand the role of the Presidency and Congress you need to study American history over the last fifty years. Compliant Republican Presidents push the corporatist agenda. Democratic Presidents find themselves with less and less control of governments. Of our last three Democratic Presidents before Obama, the first was assassinated, the second was removed from office through the CIA's October Surprise. The third one carried the corporatists' water.

This should explain the dynamics of power in Washington: Why should Republicans, who are afraid of death panels and secret Obama armies, etc., have been so willing to have handed the FISA enhancements last year? They knew it was a better than even chance that "socialist" Obama was going to be President and yet they were willing to let him have all that power to spy on Americans. Why?

Because the power of the intelligence agencies does not accrue to the Presidency. It accrues to the intelligence agencies.

I don't think we have any real idea of the possible threats against our elected representatives who cross the guys with the big bucks and power. It's all very well for us to sit here on our complacent rear ends and say that they don't deserve to be in office if they can't accept the risks.

There are risks that we haven't conceived of. These people with power and money play very, very dirty and they play for keeps.

We need to provide our people with body armor - against the psy-ops disinformation, propaganda, and smear campaigns - and we need to relentlessly expose the shadowy puppet masters for who and what they are.

How, I'm not sure. One thing - we need to support Brad and folks like him who aren't afraid to put the facts out there. We can share and forward the facts to as many who will listen. For those who don't, perhaps we can get them to examine why they don't.

Fight disinformation with facts and evidence. Fight smears with questioning why they matter. Fight psyops with examining why we hold the beliefs we do.

We are fighting a successful brainwashing of the entire country.

Normal tactics do not suffice. Normal expectations of our representatives mean nothing if they have been sufficiently threatened.

Proud Primate, Mike Rivera of What Really Happened said he has relatives in Martha's Vineyard, and they saw out-of-place E. Howard Hunt in disguises all over the place a week BEFORE Ted's "car accident". Nixon admitted on tape that he had assigned the Secret Service to keep a close eye on Ted's hanky panky "after" the "accident". Someone (perhaps you?) posted a scary explanation that goes something like: Mary Jo was an inadvertent threat of incriminating info to Hunt and his gang when she previously told her roommate, an LBJ aide, that JFK planned to dump LBJ for his reelection. The various JFK haters needed to keep LBJ as VP or even president. She may have jump started or accelerated the assassination. At the infamous party with Ted, she reportedly kept whining about wanting to leave and pestered Ted to drive her back. As he reluctantly began driving her down the road, she noticed a male friend walking along the road and made Ted pick him up. Ted was very suspicious of the scenario and kept watching the man in his rear view mirror. He saw him reach into his jacket to pull something (a gun?) out. Ted panicked and drove off the bridge. Perhaps he would have rescued Mary Jo, but when he surfaced, men standing on both banks began shooting at him. He had to swim under water quite a distance to get away. When he escaped, reached a pay phone, and called local friends, Hunt's CIA goon squad answered and threatened his entire family if he didn't drop out of the Presidential race. He and his family would be allowed to live if he made up a cover story about the "accident". More recently, another bio whose title I can't recall or find in google, recounted his embarrassing but poignant drunken rant on a plane in which he fretted about being assassinated next. JFK Jr.'s aptly named magazine, George, was an enormous OVERLOOKED threat to the Bushes and their treasonous goon squads because Jr. reportedly planned to bypass CIA-controlled MSM in outing his family's killers.

I, for one, don't think Obama's betrayal of ordinary citizens and the rule of law is driven by fear. To the contrary, I believe he made a conscious decision to sell us out the moment he decided to run for President.

Take health care. As an Illinois State Senator, Obama favored a single-payer system. Even as President, Obama has conceded that a single-payer system provides the only means to achieve universal coverage.

Obama will rail against the evils of private insurance and big pharma at the same time he meets privately with their execs to give them everything they want, including a mandate that everyone must purchase insurance. His "reform" amounts to a $900 billion give-away to the insurance industry over the next ten years even as it would leave 36 million still without insurance at the end of those ten years.

That betrayal, along with Wall Street bail-outs, can't be explained by fear of the CIA. The billionaires are Obama's real constituency, and he very much wants to be part of the club.

Panetta's lobbying to prevent prosecutions may well reflect fear of people inside his own agency, but let's not forget that Holder went ahead and appointed a special prosecutor anyway.

Obama and Holder are willing to throw a few low level CIA officers and contractors under the bus for the same reason that Rumsfeld was willing to go after "a few bad apples" in the wake of the Abu Ghraib scandal --- to protect those at the top who ordered torture to begin with --- in Rummy's case that meant protecting himself.

It's all a part of an elite consensus --- elites taking care of their own.

RIGHT NOW...as we speak, we're seeing it in action. The TV is covering the 9/12 tea protests.

If that was an anti-war protest, well you even have PROOF, you know it wouldn't be shown.

How do we get around this?

THAT IS THE QUESTION WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT!!!!!!!!!

How do we get around the biggest most important sham that's perfectly in place: THE CORPORATE MEDIA IS BOUGHT OFF AGAINST US AND THEY HAVE TO CALL IT "LIBERAL" TO KEEP THIS SHAM UP!!!

You need a RIGHT RIGHT corporate media in place, to call the RIGHT media (the so-called "liberal" media) "liberal".

What do we do about it? All things start off in a hole, because of the not "liberal" media.

Look at the Sibel Edmonds coverage. We DAILY point out that the media is FASCIST and not liberal.

What do we do about it? To show the American people this? It's a catch-22: the TV would be the best place...THAT is why it's controlled and bought off.

The way around it, is to have liberal and progressive internet sites form some type of loose bond, where they coordinate coverage of a progressive protest, and ALSO point out at the same time the LACK of coverage by the facist (so-called "liberal") media.

Clearly there are many explanations of a non-threatening or non-conspiratorial nature as to why Obama now wants to tell us that health insurance companies are our friends.

Just saying, when Democrats cave for no known reason (and when moderate Republicans take extreme positions for no known reason), there may be an unspoken or explicit threat, and we should perhaps not dismiss their actions out of hand as cowardly.

George HW Bush literally owns and controls the covert (Shadow Government) branch of the CIA...the entity that planned and carried out the 9/11 operation with Agent Cheney at the helm and Israeli operatives Dov Zakheim and Kobi Alexander in supporting roles.

It is funded internally by among other means, drug running operations using jets from their own fleet out of locations such as Fort Lauderdale Executive Airport.

The CIA is not only named for George HW Bush. He owns it. It's a private entity - not beholden to Congress - or anyone.

The bigger question then becomes, on whose behalf does it operate?

Answer: David Rockefeller.

Isn't it interesting that nobody ever writes about the most powerful man in America, David Rockefeller?

That said - they are being blackmailed by their 9/11 co-conspirator, Israel. That 9/11 was an inside job is truly the worst kept secret in DC. Everyone knows it. They are all being blackmailed by Israel. All of them.

Ashara Love (#9), I agree with you 100%. I have said in the past more than a few times that if we want to destroy the corporate monster that is literally devouring the rest of us, we have got to stop feeding it! If we stop feeding it, maybe we can starve it to death. But to win this battle will require unwaivering commitment and resolve from the masses--and therein lies the greatest obstacle to defeating the corporate beast.

To fully understand what this is, we can't focus just on Obama. The problem is much larger and complex than Obama and has been around for decades. I was in a family for more than 26 years who are deeply involved with those near the top of what is happening. The real problem is we are in the midst of a White House Coup that started with 911. The plans were explained to me and others within the family I was in back in the mid 90's. 911 was considered a starting point for executing their plans.

Obama may be looked upon as someone who will save us but with what I know, he won't. It would be great if he came through but from his past involvement (that I'm aware of) with those involved in the Coup attempt, I don't beleive it's possible.

There is a valid point with claiming that he may have fear as I personally know many involved in this who are not only scared but totally paranoid. Take my comments to heart as this is totally real.

However there is a goood side. If you know about this Coup attempt, you also may know what to look for in the news. There is a growing opposition to the Coup that continues to shave away it's existance. The good news in my opinion is that the shaving actually is turning into cutting off chunks more as time surfaces the real meaning of what is happening. Stand back and look at this actually as a Coup attempt similar to "the Business Plot" back in 1933 only this time they did their homework. The family talked about the failed attempt back in 1933 and remarked how plans were made to make sure they were successful this time!

Since the corporate media is a major problem and facilitator of deceiving and constantly bombarding the American people with disinformation, misinformation, propaganda, etc., maybe we should organize a massive protest against them. And we should also be protesting to cover our leader's back if he and others are indeed being threatened by a rogue element within the CIA. Of course, for any of this to be successful, it would require the participation of millions of unhappy Americans demanding that their voices be heard and their views accurately and fairly reported. (In other words, we need to make ourselves impossible to ignore.)

It's just a suggestion, but we've got to start taking responsibility for own lives by taking control of the situation through ACTION, not just words, and get our butts out there in force, and actively participate in creating the reality we want to live in; and not for our sake alone, but for the sake of our children and all generations to come. This is our moment, people, so let's make it something worthwhile so that future generations will have something to thank us for.

Excellent stuff I did not know, #1 Marita Lorenz, and #2 Haldeman's affirmation. A valuable piece of text.

Big Dan (#23):

The media is at the top of the pyramid.

I would couch that as "at the right hand of the majesty", its cats-paw, its scepter.

Bob In Pacifica(#17)

At best the President is a frontman. At worst, a hostage.

Eloquent, and sadly true. But:

ROBinDALLAS(#8):

So is there any agency or entity on the planet that can stand up to the CIA gestapo...?

Only one — the people, united. The chance of their unity is slim to none, but united they cannot be stopped. The extent to which the Deep State (to use Peter Dale Scott's perfect phrase) goes to keep them in the dark is proof that they are afraid of the people ever learning the truth in sufficient numbers.

Not I — the story I heard was that he woke up in a motel with a severe lump on the head. Otherwise a similar summary. But I did see reference to a newspaper article placing Hunt at Hyannisport. Another quote I found:

"The other important testimony came from [White House spy] Tony Ulasewicz who said he was ordered by the Plumbers to fly immediately to Chappaquiddick and dig up dirt on Ted. The only problem Tony has is that, according to his testimony, he arrived early on the morning of the "accident", before the whole incident had been made public."
--from The Taking of America 1-2-3 by Richard Sprague

The fact that Hunt's deathbed confession ties him in close to the JFK, and Saint John Hunt speaks of the CIA's wish to get Teddy as well is very strong.

I ordered the book today. I put a lot of stock in Ray McGovern's expertise.

Hey all-do a web search on this guy marty didier in northbrook, I'll. He's posting all over the place w/ his story. Not a lot more than what he says here-however a number of places he posted highlighted the links to resko & blago. Yikes. Chicago IS a corrupt cesspool (where is there NOT a corrupt cesspool, one might ask...) And Obama cannot have swum in that cesspool without getting filthy, for sure. The statement that rang a bell for me in Didier's post was: "Take my comments to heart because this is totally real." DING! People who say stuff like that usually have, shall we say, an agenda... Hey Marty, if you are lurking, spill it or go away. We don't got no time for people who dangle little carrots and don't share the whole story. Who are you anyway, for real? PsyOps r us???

The extent to which the Deep State (to use Peter Dale Scott's perfect phrase) goes to keep them in the dark is proof that they are afraid of the people ever learning the truth in sufficient numbers.

____________________________

Excellent assessment that is substantially similar to Howard Zinn's observations in A Power Governments Cannot Suppress:

There is a basic weakness in governments, however massive their armies, however vast their wealth, however they control images and information, because their power depends on the obedience of citizens, of soldiers, of civil servants, of journalists and writers and teachers and artists. When the citizens begin to suspect they have been deceived and withdraw their support, government loses its legitimacy and its power.

They are supported by drugs and every type of humanly depraved enterprise in existance. They really got going after WW11. WE imported the worst nazis....they are our CIA.When we use the right words. ....we can win the struggle. WE have a fascist govt. The aftermath of Katrina was genocide. The Iraq war is also genocide. Because we want to steal the oil that belongs to Iraq and Iran.

Read benjaminfulford.typepad.com.....we are in for big changes because of our fascist govt.It is almost over. Thank God.

The old problem with Bullies. You face them or try to avoid them or ignore them? I think we need to face them and push back with as much force as they have. Prosecute them and tell the truth. Don't bad down out of fear. It never works. It's easy for me to say though. We'll see.

If everyone that breathes keeps praising The Lord and doing what they truly believe to be right with a sincere heart, why would God not help out.

Call me crazy but in 1963 while sitting in my drafting classroom and when they announced over a loud speaker that your President JFK had just been kill, I visioned some of my thought of JFK going around the classroom saying, Victor I wanted to die. I must be honest and say that I did not hear any voices, "IT" was just 'Deep thoughts' of the shock I guess.

Some might truly believe that I'm probably a crazy Christian fanatic but I say that I'm not and if any of you don't believe me just ask sinner vic!

Naw, Victor, I don't have a religious ion in my body and I can see that. That sounds true to me. I'm pretty sure JFK did want to be dead if he would not have been allowed to be the best president he could be. I don't think any true human, and he sure was one of those, would want to live more than do the right thing... not when the stakes are that high.

Carey said this back in the '80s, ('70s, '60s) about the media out to destroy unions and populist Governments, so it isn't anything new, what we had already figured out without even knowing about his studies. Just confirmed.

You'll note however, that the corporations will whip out the McCarthyite card again and again if we get too uppity...it's time and this time they have the teabaggers ready made for the retaking of the hearts and minds of the unwashed.

you must be my age. I was a Senior in HS the day he died, at lunch between two hours of Latin. In the subsequent decade I did a lot of psychedelics, and then in the following 15 years was a Christian fundamentalist.

Finally, I came to realize that in both those periods, I experienced, first from external chemistry, then from internal, what is known as the "loss of distinction of self from non-self".

Like a person with color-blindness cannot distinguish red from green, and by shutting one eye you more or less lose the ability to distinguish near from far, it is possible through drugs and through mental and "spiritual" exercises to lose the ability to tell whether "voices" are coming from outside yourself or are merely your own thoughts.

This is a physiological phenomenon. An organ in the brain malfunctions when the proper chemistry is not present.

This happens naturally in people also, unfortunately. If you get a chance, see the movie, A Beautiful Mind about the famous mathematician John Nash, who became extremely paranoid and deluded, but actually saved himself by means of the strength of his intellect. Although he could not but believe his delusions from a perceptive point of view, his logical processing was so strong that he was able to override it and force himself to believe the exact opposite of what he was seeing.

it's true, the revolution will not be televised. I was in the Kennebunkport March of 8-25-07. You can see me in this clip coming into the frame at 1:51 from the left. I'm the old fat guy (I'm a lot leaner now) in the red shirt with the placard on top of my head coming in to the left edge of the screen. By the way, if you can't tell what my sign says, this is it: (click for pic)

That march got some local coverage up here in Maine. But not much in toto though it was about 4000.

But we the people did change the congress and the president. That was a big popular uprising. We do have that bully pulpit and Obama's great communication skills. We do have Olbermann, Maddow, not to mention Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert and Bill Maher. We have the ACLU. We have Thom Hartmann and other good laborers.

None of the above, at least the TV types, is really giving them both barrels, ie,. that 9/11 was an inside job, and the things that Ray McGovern is saying in this interview.

But I stand by my above statement: the people united can never be defeated. Remember, the USSR was overthrown with fax machine message trees. Determination is what it takes.

I remember hearing that interview on Alex's show (podcast) but I'd forgotten how tall it was. I never noticed the comment about Israeli mini-nukes in Iraq!

This interview was almost exactly five years ago. I cancelled my renewal a month ago when InfoWars began to consistently delete my comments unless they were unimportant. If I brought in documentary proof that they (Nimmo usually) were fudging the facts, they simply didn't allow the post. But Alex has done great work over the years. It breaks my heart to see him pandering to this teabag baloney. Feet of Clay, I guess. He can't turn loose of his Redneck roots.

COMMENT #56 [Permalink]...
To Be Fair
said on 9/13/2009 @ 8:52 am PT...

So is there any agency or entity on the planet that can stand up to the CIA

The Pentagon. In fact, the Pentagon's already pretty much killed the CIA and transferred most intelligence to the military itself.

I'd check out Tim Weiner's Legacy of Ashes. The myth of the all powerful CIA is just that, a myth. Rumsfeld, Cheney and the neocons slapped the CIA like a cheap whore.

If Obama feels threatened, the probem is with the Secret Service, not the CIA.

On the same subject, everybody should see the four hour-long segments from BBC of Adam Curtis's The Century of the Self, all about Bernays and his relatives, incl. Anna Freud, and how they were all about manipulation and control, not liberation.

ToBeFair (#56) —

good point. Weiner is top drawer. I have his Blank Check, about the Pentagon's Black Budget. We should have listened to Ike. Poor Harry Truman didn't know what hit him.

If Obama feels threatened, the problem is with the Secret Service, not the CIA.

Col. L Fletcher Prouty (prouty.org) said that no head of state can be taken out without first turning his bodyguards. He goes into it in depth, talking about De Gaulle shaking hands freely milling about in a soccer stadium in Peru — but his team had spent 6 months culling all his enemies from the province.

well, I took a walk instead. I listened to the whole hour mp3 from Pacifica of the Alex Carey manuscripts.

It's almost hopeless, the level to which the majority of cocker-spaniels in the USA are completely at the mercy of this propaganda, with it's virtually limitless funding.

Events like the Depression and the Vietnam War are exceptions, periods when "bread and circuses" fall short of persuading the great unwashed.

Still, we are here, communicating on this, for now, unlimited channel, the web. We know they are lying. We must continue to hope that by dint of understanding we can change the way that the masses look at reality.

Other than that, we're toast.

COMMENT #60 [Permalink]...
To Be Fair
said on 9/13/2009 @ 12:01 pm PT...

He goes into it in depth, talking about De Gaulle shaking hands freely milling about in a soccer stadium in Peru — but his team had spent 6 months culling all his enemies from the province.

Ha. Degualle was a badass. I just wish Obama had half his character. Then he'd be able to pull out of Aleri....I mean afghanistan.

Then again, maybe not. I think Andrews is largely full of it when he talks about Kennedy being gunned down because he turned peacenik.

But his book is an interesting attempt at mythmaking and he's spot on about how Kennedy couldn't have turned against the military industrial state had he tried. Same with Obama. Same with anybody. If Kucinich or Bernie Sanders got into the White House tomorrow, both of them would either govern like an imperialist or simply be rendered ineffectual.

That being said, there really were an awful lot of public figures murdered in the 1960s.

It could be a conspiracy. It could be the fact that polticians back then simply didn't have the same security and assumptions they'd be in danger they have now (although the DeGualle example proves otherwise).

"...HOUSTON (AP) --- The former finance chief for jailed Texas financier R. Allen Stanford said his boss created a business empire where blood oaths were taken to secure loyalty, bribes were paid from a secret Swiss bank account and investor profits were more fiction than financial genius..."

@ ProudPrimate ~ Each of your posts, a fascination from stern to bow - thanks ever so. I'd like to get "We should have listened to Ike" on a Tee, or tattooed on my forehead.

Of all the nano-diamonds you've tossed at our feet, I'd love to highlight your critically important / timely reminder that:

"...the USSR was overthrown with fax machine message trees."

Right! There's enough red-meat there for a whole other thread. I hope we get the chance to explore that mostly forgotten history further, as I see it as the fundamental key to any possible positive shift we might affect in this most Despairing Era. The Anti-Enlightenment.
This Age of Assholes. These Biggest-Brass-Balls-Takes-All, Ages.

While a very depressing thought, this:

"Events like the Depression and the Vietnam War are exceptions, periods when "bread and circuses" fall short of persuading the great unwashed..."

...it made me feel better to read that outside my own head where I feel it's true but I haven't had the information parked outside long enough for validation.

Obama has nothing to worry about. He's doing a fine job for the global elite. All assassinations have been headed by the global elite. Don't let the memes that have been programmed in your p-brain fool you.
You think he's a J.F.K? LOL. The reason why there is chaos in the world is because these elitists days are numbered and they aren't going without a fight.

It may be true that the Obama fears some at the CIA or some other agencies (NSA and/or some in the Pentagon). But we should also keep in mind that Obama, after college, worked for Business International which is a well known CIA front company. I first read this at Wayne Madsen but it's also confirmed here by John Pilger. (@ about 15:10) And though I know Mr. Friedman is skeptical of Madsen (and I agree he has his problems here and there) and has had a bit of a spat with him see what Sibel had to say about him here in her comment about 2/3rds of the way down the comments section.

In 2004, I was unemployed. I got 4 weekly unemployment checks for the max $500.

My health insurance while working was around $250/300. Under COBRA, your employer no longer (at that time) kicked in 75% or whatever your company's rate was they were kicking in. So, to continue COBRA at that time was $1,000/month. Reagan started taxing unemployment, which took ONE $500 check. COBRA took the other TWO $500 checks, and I was left with $500/month to survive a family of four on. Needless to say, I got in deep financial trouble.

I finally figured out you meant Algeria. Which brings up the torture issue again, à la the film The Battle of Algiers
I strongly urge you to listen to Prouty's comments about this, a 16 minute clip called The Anatomy of Assassination, which is a .RAM clip (RealAudio) being before the era of mp3 dominance — I had to convert my own copy — but I've listened to it many times. This site, prouty.org, is a treasure trove of great listening, a few videos, and some books.

Jeannie Dean — you are too kind, my dear

JBNHM (#66) —
Now you've done it — pulling trump on me! Nothing that Pilger says can be dismissed, or even ignored. I'm clinging to Hope even now, but I see what he means. I suppose I should follow Woody Allen's advice. I usually feel better after I throw up.

The quality of Pilger's testimony is beyond reproach. I loved how he quoted Pinter — they are so much alike. Have you watched Pinter's wheelchair acceptance video of his Nobel Prize? I forced my son and future daughter-in-law to watch about half of it — thru the Nicaragua reference. I resolved when I saw it that "if anyone has the gall to come to my funeral, they can damned well sit thru it or walk out."

But even though he demands we abandon Hope, ie., in Obama, his central point seems to agree with my hope:

It was only later when I read Walter Lippmann's book, Public Opinion — A Manual of the Invisible Government, that I began to understand the power of emotions attached to false ideas and bad histories on a grand scale.

and

"The struggle of people against power is the struggle of memory against forgetting."

He goes on to paint a very hopeful picture of the Bolivarian Revolution:

We should never forget that the primary goal of great power is to distract and limit our natural desire for social justice and equity and real democracy.

The American Way of Life began as an advertising slogan. The modern image of Santa Clause was an invention of Coca-Cola.

Look down at Latin America. Less than 20 years ago, there was the usual despair, the usual divisions of poverty and freedom, the usual thugs in uniforms running unspeakable regimes. Today, for the first time perhaps in 500 years there's a peoples' movement based on the revival of indigenous cultures and language — a genuine populism. The recent amazing achievement in Bolivia, Ecuador, Venezuela, El Salvador, Argentina, Brazil and Paraguay represent a struggle for community and political rights that is truly historic, with implications for all of us.

The successes in Latin America are expressed perversely in the recent overthrow of the government of Honduras, because the smaller the country, the greater is the threat of a good example that the disease of emancipation will spread.

I too am a firm believer in Chavez's great cause, as is Palast. I posted Chavez's "sulfur" speech to the UN at my former website, in parallel languages, with the audio clip here

Another "alternative Hope" that strikes me as very promising is that proposed by John Perkins in his recent
Alex Jones interview, essentially by withdrawing our capital from the Empire with boycotts and decentralization. He says his next book, due out in November, will offer real hope of undermining Empire.

If communication, such as we are now indulging in, continues and decentralization, especially of energy production, e.g. wind and solar (if they cease to have us by the balls, that will shift the game), and if we can create local credit, like the wildly successful Bank of North Dakota, independent since 1919 (read this article: BUT GOVERNOR, YOU CAN CREATE MONEY!
JUST FORM YOUR OWN BANK.

I'm just remembering the Perkins interview as I re-listen to it, and here is Alex Jones saying essentially what Pilger is saying, and Perkins is coming back with more or less exactly what McGovern says in the article and interview above. Perkins is a voice that, while not quite as pungent as John Pilger, has great credibility and more than a little brilliant wisdom, in my view. This below is in part 2 of the YouTube, starting at 7:45 —

ALEX JONES: As more and more comes out, Cheney running private hit teams — Delta Force hit teams — to murder his enemies overseas, Ridge being ordered to issue fake terror alerts, and Obama is saying, "no investigation of torture, no investigation of Blackwater", or he'll do the corporate tactic of saying "well, I'm looking at it" but then not do it. He's keeping the continual secret arrests, indefinite detention, can you speak to prosecuting or at least investigating Bush? Or can we just, I guess, let him get away with it? What does this do precedent-wise to let them get away with Blackwater and underage girls [the reference is to DynCorp no doubt] and all the rest of it. I mean, is there no end? If we put up with this level of evil, what comes next?

JOHN PERKINS: Exactly right. We mustn't — we mustn't put up with it. I think We The People must really speak out. But my own belief — you know, I think Obama is in a very difficult spot. Obviously I'm not in a position to know what's going on with him, I'm not a psychologist, but — he has to know that — Kennedy was assassinated. Two Kennedys were assassinated. And US presidents get assassinated, too — not just foreign presidents.

And here is a very important point come up that was addressed in this thread by ToBeFair (#60) "If Kucinich or Bernie Sanders got into the White House tomorrow, both of them would either govern like an imperialist or simply be rendered ineffectual." and by Bob In Pacifica (#17) earlier: "At best the President is a frontman. At worst, a hostage."

Perkins goes on:

And once you're in that White House, I think you begin to see things that you never saw before. I suspect that Obama's getting tremendous amounts of pressure put on him. It's one of the reasons he's been caving in to so many things.

And his own Attorney General, Eric Holder, was a partner in a lawfirm called Covington and Burling, LLP., and this lawfirm defended Chiquita, you know, the big banana company that — the big company in Honduras. Chiquita was accused of hiring an assassination squad in Colombia. And their main defender was an attorney called Eric Holder, who is now our Attorney General. [see Perkins's article on the subject here]

ALEX JONES: Was that United Fruit?

JOHN PERKINS: Uh, Chiquita.

ALEX JONES: What was Chiquita formerly, was it Un —

JOHN PERKINS: Yeah —

ALEX JONES: — ited Fruit? Or was it Standard Fruit?

JOHN PERKINS: Yeah — Chiquita was United Fruit at one time. And —

ALEX JONES: So that was the famous folks on record, overthrowing Guatemala.

JOHN PERKINS: Yes, Arbenz of Guatemala in the 50's.

ALEX JONES: So, same story, over and over. Sorry for interrupting,

JOHN PERKINS: Same story. So, Chiquita incidentally was found guilty of hiring assassination squads in Colombia. In fact it admitted that it had paid organizations listed by the United States as terrorist groups, for protection, and and paid a $24 million fine in 2004. Eric Holder our current AG was their main defender then, and now he is defending the coup that overthrew the democratically elected government of Honduras. It's just another instance, Alex, of how ingrained all of this is.

@ProudPrimate Wow thanks for all the great links. I'm a huge fan of Pilger. It's really hard to think of people I admire more. Very inspiring guy. I was aware of the Bank of ND but I'll definitely read your article as I'm terrible with economics and I'm not sure I understand the import of it yet; except in so far as it takes away a degree of pure profit motive and allows for the motive to shift to community projects etc. and being more local allows for more direct knowledge of where things are needed I guess. And yeah the Chiquita thing. My local store only has Chaquita bananas so I can't even buy bananas anymore. Back to the money thing though, are you aware of the Liberty Dollar? Interesting idea at least. Though I'm not sure why their money would be better than just pure gold if it came to that. Except that pure gold and silver are hard to come by I guess. Also while we're on the subject of companies hiring hit squads are you aware of Barick Gold's dealings in Tanzania? They're now looking at a place in the Bolochistan region of Pakistan called Reko Diq. One of the largest untapped gold reserves in the world.

Kennedy had so many enemies that they probably drew straws to see who got to knock him off. I'm sure the controllers of the Fed were real happy about the Silver Certificates the Treasury was issuing. That alone ought to be good enough for a stiff body. I'm sure a lot of "friendlies" were praying that Kennedy would rest in pieces.