So I provided an instance where I believe Plushenko robbed somebody of silver, an instance that others believe too.

You are not answering the question, which is rather typical for a demagogue. If what you are saying is true, which again is not but that's besides the point, then why the names of Goebel and Yag get remembered only when the name of Plu shows up?

Originally Posted by Mathman

If your memory of these discussions is different, that is no justification for gratuitous sarcasm.

Same argument here. If your memory is different, that is no justification for ... whatever. Yawn.

No, I mean "have" as in the 98 points SP that he did at Worlds 2013 that is the current Guinness World Record, and the best Short Program to have ever been executed by the field today.

I'd pity you and your jealousy of him, if it weren't so hilarious to see how angry you get when he continues to do well.

Just that? 98 points, the ones that he would have never got for that skating if WC were not in Canada? Oh wait. It also comes to Jim Pattison Group, which currently is Canada's 3rd private company which happens to own through steps Guiness World Records? Yeah. That does explain why they didn't give "Guiness WR" to Plu or Dai or Hanyu when they ALL hit the same stuff in SP. They gave it only to the Canadian Chan . Gosh. If Guiness WR is now your only argument available, then no, I don't pity you. You are not jealous of anyone. You are simply doing your job. Because no one would agree to embarrass him/herself the way you do free of charge. It's hillarious to see how angry you get because you are obviously not doing your stuff well enough. Otherwise no one would have noticed that.

[QUOTE=let`s talk;740860]Just that? 98 points, the ones that he would have never got for that skating if WC were not in Canada? Oh wait. It also comes to Jim Pattison Group, which currently is Canada's 3rd private company which happens to own through steps Guiness World Records? Yeah. That does explain why they didn't give "Guiness WR" to Plu or Dai or Hanyu when they ALL hit the same stuff in SP. . . . . QUOTE]

Thank you for the clarification.

Back to earth, and the thread, there is an issue of whether the scoring situation is going to be addressed by ISU so that (back to the thread) other skaters like Plushenko (and Hanyu, Takahashi, Ten, Fernandez, Reynolds) are going to feel like they are getting a fair shake. The issue is then that even if Plushenko skates perfectly, are the judges going to give him the score he deserves.

Regarding Chan, he may be the greatest skater, but he is cacking. It may be more of a mental issue (time zone, stage fright syndrome, personal) looking at the total picture (skating, interviews, moving to Detroit). Perhaps moving to Detroit and training there will let him regain that sense of wholeness he used to be able to bring to his skating. But it has to be clear to the ISU that if Chan cacks again, and other skaters, be they Plushenko, Hanyu, Ten, Fernandez, Reynolds or anyone else, gets shafted, and the scoring isn't seen to be properly administered, not only are Plushenko, Hanyu, Ten, Fernandez, Reynolds out of the running, so is skating as a sport. The Olympics is the last straw.

Interesting comments above about whether the Olympics are just about the medals. Surely, they are not, especially if they are watched in the moment. After this year, as a Canadian, Reynolds coming in fourth to seventh would mean more to me than Chan winning gold. Great sport is when people rise above themselves. Plushenko to win a medal will have to rise above a lot. He is coming off surgery, and he has age issues. If he was to win any medal, that would surely be an "Olympic moment".

There are so many skaters in the men's that are getting better faster to peak at the Olympics. Looking just at Hanyu and Ten and where they are at their ages (people so often comment that it took Ten so long to prove himself, but he is only 19), surely it is not a question of whether they will surpass Chan but when, and whether it will be as early as Sochi. That is not just an issue for Chan, but Plushenko has to wade into that.

The aspect of Plushenko though is that he seems to be bigger than life. His image is and his skating has been up to now as well. If anyone can pull a rabbit out of the hat, given the obstacles that have to be overcome, this is probably the person. But it would be great for the Olympics, for that special moment, if he just shows.

Regarding Chan, he may be the greatest skater, but he is cacking. It may be more of a mental issue (time zone, stage fright syndrome, personal) looking at the total picture (skating, interviews, moving to Detroit). Perhaps moving to Detroit and training there will let him regain that sense of wholeness he used to be able to bring to his skating. But it has to be clear to the ISU that if Chan cacks again, and other skaters, be they Plushenko, Hanyu, Ten, Fernandez, Reynolds or anyone else, gets shafted, and the scoring isn't seen to be properly administered, not only are Plushenko, Hanyu, Ten, Fernandez, Reynolds out of the running, so is skating as a sport. The Olympics is the last straw.

CSG, you are funny, indeed... No one questioned Plush's second place in 2002, probably except Thimothy's parents. On Youtube the people was used Tim's program to protect the gold of Evan, not because Plushy's silver was undeserved. Plushy's artistic impression is so much higher than Timothy's.
(Evan's defenders were wrong, because they thought Evan won with artistry scores- they believed in the anti Plush campaign - not with technical points. Otherwise, if the Youtube was mentioned Plush clearly won there in 2010.)
In figure skating history Plush landed for the first time 3A-3F and 4T-3T-3Lo(so) combinations in SLC.

CSG, you are funny, indeed... No one questioned Plush's second place in 2002, probably except Thimothy's parents. On Youtube the people was used Tim's program to protect the gold of Evan, not because Plushy's silver was undeserved. Plushy's artistic impression is so much higher than Timothy's.
(Evan's defenders were wrong, because they thought Evan won with artistry scores- they believed in the anti Plush campaign - not with technical points. Otherwise, if the Youtube was mentioned Plush clearly won there in 2010.)
In figure skating history Plush landed for the first time 3A-3F and 4T-3T-3Lo(so) combinations in SLC.

And in the first time in history Goebel landed 3 quads in a FS and 4 quads over the course of the competition, which to me is much more impressive (not that a 3A-3F or 4-3-3, even with stepout, aren't impressive themselves). Plushyfan, you always refer to people's comments in Youtube videos as evidence of how much people love Plushenko. So in Youtube videos where the comments talk about Goebel deserving silver all of a sudden those comments don't mean anything?

Just that? 98 points, the ones that he would have never got for that skating if WC were not in Canada? Oh wait. It also comes to Jim Pattison Group, which currently is Canada's 3rd private company which happens to own through steps Guiness World Records? Yeah. That does explain why they didn't give "Guiness WR" to Plu or Dai or Hanyu when they ALL hit the same stuff in SP. They gave it only to the Canadian Chan

It doesn't have to go through Guinness... it is the highest score ever recorded for a man. And what was your excuse for when he got the record in 2011 Worlds, which wasn't on Canadian ice? And the records for total score and highest FS score aren't on Canadian ice - he got them in Russia ... so what's your excuse for that? He doesn't need Guinness to recognize that they're World records, everyone already does that anyways since they know basic math and what numbers are higher than other numbers.

And in the first time in history Goebel landed 3 quads in a FS and 4 quads over the course of the competition, which to me is much more impressive (not that a 3A-3F or 4-3-3, even with stepout, aren't impressive themselves). Plushyfan, you always refer to people's comments in Youtube videos as evidence of how much people love Plushenko. So in Youtube videos where the comments talk about Goebel deserving silver all of a sudden those comments don't mean anything?

Even I agree that Tim could have been awarded the silver medal that night, considering his great LP and Plushenko's errors, plushyfan has a point about some FS fans trying to use the 2002 outcome against Plushenko and suddenly discovered Tim was "robbed".
Let's not forget Plushenko beat Goebel in 1997 at JWC when Tim had a quad and Plushenko didn't. He also beat him in 2003 at WC with some technical errors in LP.
Lysacek and Chan didn't invent the wheel! Let's talk will probably say PLushenko wasn't falling as much as Chan, but hey, FS has evolved since 2002-2003.

No one questioned Plush's second place in 2002, probably except Thimothy's parents.

And Scott Hamilton and many many casual fans who don't watch figure skating until Olympics who have heard what Scott Hamilton said.

Scott even speculated who was going to win the Olympics after Yagudin finished his LP. And said it was a "tough call" among Yagudin, Plushenko, and Geobel. He has hinted that Geobel might win over both Yagudin and Plushenko. Also, many have questioned Plushenko's fourth place finish over many clean skaters in SP after a bad fall.

However, people don't have any clue why Plushenko was held up in SP, do they? Except that Plushenko had been a better skater with better results in the past competitions over the skaters he beat in SP. That was 6.0. That was the one many loved more than CoP.

I should point out my position though. I have no love for Geobel's robotic skating. The final placement at 2002 Olympics was just what I've wanted. Even though I have wished Plushenko to be the second, I still don't have clue why he was placed in fourth in SP. That's my pet peev for 6.0.

And Scott Hamilton and many many casual fans who don't watch figure skating until Olympics who have heard what Scott Hamilton said.

Scott even speculated who was going to win the Olympics after Yagudin finished his LP. And said it was a "tough call" among Yagudin, Plushenko, and Geobel. He has hinted that Geobel might win over both Yagudin and Plushenko. Also, many have questioned Plushenko's fourth place finish over many clean skaters in SP after a bad fall.

However, people don't have any clue why Plushenko was held up in SP, do they? Except that Plushenko had been a better skater with better results in the past competitions over the skaters he beat in SP. That was 6.0. That was the one many loved more than CoP.

Of course..Scott Hamilton and his team are the most biased commentators ever...

And in the first time in history Goebel landed 3 quads in a FS and 4 quads over the course of the competition, which to me is much more impressive (not that a 3A-3F or 4-3-3, even with stepout, aren't impressive themselves). Plushyfan, you always refer to people's comments in Youtube videos as evidence of how much people love Plushenko. So in Youtube videos where the comments talk about Goebel deserving silver all of a sudden those comments don't mean anything?

I answered this question..Before 2010 no one has dealt with it. After Vancouver became argument. And wrote on Youtube to Vancouver videos..

Of course..Scott Hamilton and his team are the most biased commentators ever...

I don't think so, even though US commentators have been very biased commentators. I don't know if you've remembered some Russian friend on this board have posted how Russian commentators commentate for figure skating competitions?

Scott even speculated who was going to win the Olympics after Yagudin finished his LP. And said it was a "tough call" among Yagudin, Plushenko, and Geobel. He has hinted that Geobel might win over both Yagudin and Plushenko. Also, many have questioned Plushenko's fourth place finish over many clean skaters in SP after a bad fall.

However, people don't have any clue why Plushenko was held up in SP, do they? Except that Plushenko had been a better skater with better results in the past competitions over the skaters he beat in SP. That was 6.0. That was the one many loved more than CoP.

I should point out my position though. I have no love for Geobel's robotic skating. The final placement at 2002 Olympics was just what I've wanted. Even though I have wished Plushenko to be the second, I still don't have clue why he was placed in fourth in SP. That's my pet peev for 6.0.

Well, you said it right there. That 4th place was purely based on reputation. He should have been 6th at best after the SP. That was the technical program and he had a fall and no combination... how does that place higher than guys who skated cleanly with quads, in combination at that? Worse, three of the judges actually put him in 3rd (http://www.icecalc.com/events/owg200...lts/SEG001.HTM) and two of the judges gave him higher artistic marks than Yagudin, with a fall.

In the FS, Goebel didn't get any favours from the judges as well and got 5.6/5.7's technically which was absolutely appalling, considering he had skated the most ambitious technical program (in terms of 3 quads, 2 axels) and executed it almost flawlessly... one judge actually put him in 5th (and all three Russians in 1-2-3... hm, wonder who that judge was ).

Well, you said it right there. That 4th place was purely based on reputation. He should have been 6th at best after the SP. That was the technical program and he had a fall and no combination... how does that place higher than guys who skated cleanly with quads, in combination at that? Worse, three of the judges actually put him in 3rd (http://www.icecalc.com/events/owg200...lts/SEG001.HTM) and two of the judges gave him higher artistic marks than Yagudin, with a fall.

In the FS, Goebel didn't get any favours from the judges as well and got 5.6/5.7's technically which was absolutely appalling, considering he had skated the most ambitious technical program (in terms of 3 quads, 2 axels) and executed it almost flawlessly... one judge actually put him in 5th (and all three Russians in 1-2-3... hm, wonder who that judge was ).

Aren't you glad that 6.0 was gone forever?! I can't believe anyone think that 6.0 is better than CoP!