Dotty, I tend to take that as divine intervention to spare me from too many calories and decide that sharing was meant to be. A lot of times I do ask for extra spoons/forks, though. If double dipping were a concern I might say "Give me your plate" and scoop a bit onto each person's plate before I used my spon/fork to take a bite.

As far as the question somebody asked about what I think/do when somebody else orders an app and follows their own family's rules - and don't share. I realize that each family has their own rules, I don't expect others to abide by my rules and I am able toaccept that their rules aren't really my business.

So, those of you "appetizers are always to share" posters, what about desserts? A couple of us have touched on it, but what do you think?

I stated in my post that IME appetizers are always shared unless they're order in lieu of an entree. Before I answer your question about the dessert, I'd like to clarify that statement in a couple of ways.

1) What I'm thinking of as an appetizer is sort of platter of individual pieces of whatever the appetizer is: cheese sticks, potato skins, asparagus spears wrapped in ham, etc. I don't recall ever seeing a restaurant appetizer with only 2-4 pieces, either. I'm thinking more along the lines of 8-12 pieces (a sampler-platter type appetizer might have 3-4 pieces of different items, but several items). To me, such appetizers appear to be sized and presented with sharing in mind. Apparently small appetizers sized for 1-2 are out there, but I was not aware of such a thing when I posted.

2) Like Judah, I make the "starter" vs "appetizer" distinction. I don't think of something like a soup or salad served before the entree as an "appetizer"--to me that means one of the platter-type things I described before.

3) While I think of appetizers as something to be shared, I would never presume that I was invited to share someone else's appetizer unless invited. I would never order an appetizer without planning to share (unless it was ordered as an entree), and I would be quite surprised if a member of my family or one of my friends did. However, I assume that the person who ordered the entree will offer it to whoever they wish to share with, whether that's the entire table or a subgroup. Or they wouldn't offer to share with anyone, and I would be surprised and file it away as a new data point in my experiences of appetizer-related behavior.

In the case of the OP, I would expect the mother to have the right to offer up a platter-type appetizer that she purchased for sharing, even if the child chose which one to order. Now that it's been clarified that this was a small, individual serving-type appetizer, that sounds more like a "starter" that wouldn't be shared.

Do desserts have the same rules? Are you required to share them as well?

(And, to all posters, what do you do if you don't want to share, but the waiter brings forks for everyone making you feel like you have to anyway?)

I don't expect desserts to be shared, although it doesn't surprise me when people offer. The appetizers I have encountered in restaurant seem designed to offer several portions worth, both in size and in presentation as small, individual finger foods. The desserts OTOH usually seem designed as a single portion, at least in presentation (restaurant desserts often seem quite large). I'm thinking in terms of pie, cake, ice cream, a brownie, etc., which is the kind of thing I'm used to seeing in restaurants.

If the waiter brought extra forks? It's not something I've personally run into (I rarely have room for dessert in restaurants), but I hope I'd say something like "Oh, no thank you. I don't need any extra forks." And if anyone else at the table indicated that they expected to share my dessert: "Oh, I was planning to eat the whole thing. Do you want to order something now? I'll wait." And then, if they wanted a dessert and mine wouldn't suffer from sitting until theirs came out, then I'd wait to eat with them. Otherwise, I'd go ahead and eat mine and then sit and chat while they waited for and finished theirs.

As a side note, I have never heard of a blanket "must share apps" rule before this thread.

Me neither. Sharing apps, yes. Assuming apps are always shared, no.

If the apps are for the table, that should be announced when ordering them. If not, they belong to the person who ordered them, and forced sharing is rude.

Really, it's not hard to clarify that when ordering. Also, if you intend to share, would it not be appropriate to ask if the apps suit the table? Ordering something "for the table" without checking if the table wants it is rude as well, IMO.

I agree with this, too. When we eat out with our immediate family, we do share apps. When we eat out with others, I never assume that the apps they order are for us nor do they assume that the apps we order are for them. Sometimes we will discuss ordering apps to share. It is so simple to do "Do you guys want to share some apps?" If they say no we don't care for any or no, why don't we each get our own, then fine. If they say yes, then we do.

i think it is rude to grab someone else's apps and offer them to share, even a family members without checking with the person first. What if that was to be the main part of their meal? What if they wanted the extras to take home for a snack? You can ask quietly if they want to share with others, but please accept a "no" answer and not embarrass them in any way.

The desserts OTOH usually seem designed as a single portion, at least in presentation (restaurant desserts often seem quite large). I'm thinking in terms of pie, cake, ice cream, a brownie, etc., which is the kind of thing I'm used to seeing in restaurants.

But go on the updated information that I'm not talking about pie, cake and ice cream but desserts that have "pieces" to them. What then?

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I hope I'd say something like "Oh, no thank you. I don't need any extra forks."

Can you do that, though? I mean, if he's already putting down forks at each person's place, it seems really awkward to say, "Oh no, take all those back from everyone. I'm not sharing." It just seems kind of touchy when it's already in the works.

Sharnita says she takes it as a divine sign that she doesn't need the calories. But, darn it, sometimes I want my own dessert. Especially, like I said above, when it's my birthday, and they bring me out something special to celebrate it.....and then tell everyone they can have some, too. I should get to make that decision - not the restaurant.

(ETA: Is this "waiter makes assumption that it's going to be shared" thing a US one, maybe? Maybe this doesn't occur in other parts of the world. If so, I wish you'd come over and educate our servers that it's not a nice thing to do to us. It puts us on the spot. Seriously, it's all happening so fast, there isn't time to catch them before everyone has a fork at their side - sometimes the forks/spoons are passed out even before the dessert is placed on the table.)

I think the "without asking" thing is what keeps sticking in my proverbial craw. If she had just asked her daughter if it was OK to offer the food to others, I would be willing to give the mother a pass.

It seems very off to me, but I freely admit I have food issues. It just seems if she adknowladges its "DD's" food, she has no right to mess with it. Parenting isn't "good-will" its a choice adults make to roduce and provide for a dependant being.

In this case, i see it as DD is fresh from swim practice, and depending on how many people agreed to "share" her food, she might not have gotten enough to comfortably wait for her entree. I know after swim or volleyball i usually needed something right then and there. In these cases I was allowed to order a starter, since the time it took to cook the meal might have been "over the limit" I a few times ordered an ap and had all of it eaten by family members because it was "SOOOOOO good" and the time it took for me to point out the occourance to my mom/stepdad, plus get the replacement order left me shaking and in tears. Now, its possible this girl had a snack before getting to the resturaunt, or didn't work out as hard as my swim practices tended to be, or a thousand other maybes. So take it as worth the expense you paid for it.

And I have seen lots of cheese stick "platters" that were three or four pieces. My little brother is a cheese addict and often he'd gobble two or more and after our parents got their shares mine had already gone down DB's throat. Not that I'm bitter. (I'm really not. I like cheese sticks but not enough to get mad over The Vaccuum Boy's getting mine. Besides, stepmom and dad never had me after an athletic event.)

And couldn't Mom have prompted DD "Are you gonna go ahead and offer it to everyone else?" quietly and given DD the chance to play gracious giver? By 12 its possible she would appreciate that chance.

The desserts OTOH usually seem designed as a single portion, at least in presentation (restaurant desserts often seem quite large). I'm thinking in terms of pie, cake, ice cream, a brownie, etc., which is the kind of thing I'm used to seeing in restaurants.

But go on the updated information that I'm not talking about pie, cake and ice cream but desserts that have "pieces" to them. What then?

Quote

I hope I'd say something like "Oh, no thank you. I don't need any extra forks."

Can you do that, though? I mean, if he's already putting down forks at each person's place, it seems really awkward to say, "Oh no, take all those back from everyone. I'm not sharing." It just seems kind of touchy when it's already in the works.

My general experience with appetizers is that appetizers are designed to be shared by two or more people. My general experience with desserts is that one order of dessert in a restaurant is meant to be a single serving. Thus, in general, I would expect appetizers to be shared and desserts not to be. In either case, I would not assume that the item was intended to be shared with me until it was offered. I would simply be more surprised to see someone consume their entire appetizer (of the platter type that I'm used to) without sharing I would be regarding other items like dessert. I don't know what I would expect from a dessert in pieces, because I can't think of any examples that I've encountered in a restaurant.

In the extra forks situation, the waiter is taking an inappropriate action based on an erroneous assumption. If it is obvious that the forks are being provided for your dessert, then I see no reason why you could not politely correct the assumption that extra forks were needed. Will it be awkward? Maybe, maybe not. It depends on who you're dealing with. Ideally, your tablemates would realize that the waiter's assumptions about your dessert do not have anything to do with your actual intentions for the dessert and would not assume that they're invited to share unless you say so. You would have to decide if you think it would cause awkwardness with your friends and whether your desire to avoid awkwardness outweighs your desire to eat your whole dessert.

When I say that I think "appetizers are for sharing," I'm not saying that anyone has a right to assume they'll get some of your dish or that it would be rude for someone who doesn't feel that way not to share the food they purchased. For me, the question of whether the family in the OP follows the "appetizers are for sharing" rule factors into the question of whether the mother (who purchased the food) had a right to share it even though the daughter ordered it.

When I say that I think "appetizers are for sharing," I'm not saying that anyone has a right to assume they'll get some of your dish or that it would be rude for someone who doesn't feel that way not to share the food they purchased. For me, the question of whether the family in the OP follows the "appetizers are for sharing" rule factors into the question of whether the mother (who purchased the food) had a right to share it even though the daughter ordered it.

This comes down to how people perceive the child and the situation.

If the parents respect their 12 year old as an individual who should have a say over the food they ordered, asking or prompting would be appropriate.

If the parents believe that if they are paying for the food they have the right to do with it as they please, asking has no place in their perception. Basically the 12 year old should be grateful for a meal and not expect that her meal is hers if the parent decides otherwise. This would include appetizers, entrees, sides, desserts, and drinks.

I think it comes down to would it be rude if the mother had leant over and grabbed a plate belonging to one of the other diners at the table and offered it to everyone? If that would be rude, and I think it would be, then it was rude to do it to her daughter. My mother would probably had done this but she felt I was an extension of her with no rights or feelings and that volunteering my time and possessions to others was her right.

Yes, I think it's pretty much impossible to know exactly what the dynamics were in that situation--a 'surprised look' could've been many things, and also I find it's harder than we think to correctly interpret someone's expression! (I get asked 'what's wrong' based on my facial expression when I'm doing just fine, for just one example!'

With that said, as the person being offered, I'd be uncomfortable accepting food someone offered for someone else. So I'd do the 'safe' thing and decline. (Unless it was sushi, then I might have to see how my willpower is that day...) The only thing in the situation that's controllable or etiquette-based to me is the reaction of the person being offered the food. The rest of it is too hard to interpret from just that exchange, I think.