Mac’s World

ORIGINAL BROADCAST DATE: Wednesday March 12, 2008

I returned to the popular Des Moines radio show Mac’s World to once again discuss Scientology and the upcoming Anonymous global picket of Scientology. In my first appearance, the co-host Bradshaw was running the ship. This time Mac took a crack at me and he was much more skeptical about “criticizing a religion.”

I try to explain it’s the fraud and abuse and not the mythology that people are upset about. In many respects, I felt like a listener this time out rather than a guest as Mac and Bradshaw argued the points and I waited them out. Bradshaw is up to speed and was good at getting his message across so I was happy to listen and be a part of the show.

Then the callers started and the first one was DefendingScientology from YouTube. He claimed to be a member of Anonymous and said he went in to take a course to see if what I was saying was true and gosh darn it, wouldn’t you know it, in that first Scientology course they said nothing at all about Xenu so everything I had to say therefore must be a lie.

Only after getting off the show did I look at DefendingScientology’s profile where he says he was an “ex-member” of Scientology. In my opinion, he adopted a suitable guise to try to stop the peaceful protest on the 15th. That is his stated goal. I have no problem with anyone speaking or protesting peacefully. I’d just suggest, don’t lie when you’re doing it.

Other callers were full of praise for me and while I didn’t get a chance to say thanks, I would like to point out that there are many other critics at this much longer than me who have made massive contributions that I only have tried to build upon. My praise goes to them and to the new breed who are coming on strong and bringing a lot of new life into the movement.

I only wish I had read the full Clearwater injunction before airtime. Tory called me and told me it was online right after I got off the air. Here’s the full request for injunction which shows once again that Scientology is great at investigating people and finding their “crimes.” They list the names of several Anonymous and run through a litany of supposed threats to the church and to Heber Jentzsch in particular.

I don’t know how many of those threats were real or mocked up by Scientology. I don’t condone any such behavior. All I know is that on February 10th, thousands of people peacefully picketed Scientology around the world and there were no acts of violence attempted.

The same will happen March 15th when once again citizens will exercise their right of free speech and take to the streets of Clearwater and beyond to protest Scientology’s fraud and abuse. Scientology’s attempts to stop free speech on the net or on Clearwater’s streets will only backfire and make more people speak out against them.

Wonderful work, Mark. It’s obvious the hosts of Mac’s World have done their research and were able to immediately sniff out “defendscientology’s” bias.

I think it’s also a great opportunity for us future Anonymous callers to learn from and polish our delivery. Radio should not be a tl;dr (too long; didn’t read), more like a fencing match. Everyone has access to information on how the Church of Scientology’s organization is harmful to society at large. Find a hot button and strike quickly and concisely.

The environment? How about the Scientology cruiseship Freewinds dumping sewage in Bonaires. Video’s on youtube, search terms are “freewinds,” and “scientology”.
Disaster relief? How about Scientologists bragging about blocking other relief workers from getting to the World Trade Center on 911? http://www.holysmoke.org/vultures/vultures.htm
Separation of Church and State? Scientologists were busted in Germany doing a bait-and-switch while claiming to offer tutorial services in schools.

It’s obvious a scientologist speaker will always attack Anonymous rather than defend against wrongdoing. In regards to the “scifag” issue: the term “fag” become a common rider in communication, where Anonymous even refers to itself as fags. For example, “britfags” are Anonymous in Britain. Check this youtube video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=U98bio91ygM

With regards to Anonymous being cowards for wearing masks, I would argue two things. First, we regularly have massive events involving over half the population of the United States which legally require anonymity to permit freedom of choice. They’re called elections. Second, since it’s Scientology policy to disconnect from people who are branded as “suppressive persons,” it could very well be that the masks allow relatives of those in Scientology to visibly protest it without losing all contact with their kin.

Thanks again to everyone for getting the word out on a day to day basis. Every thought-provoking comment posted with a linked reference, or poster, or “youfoundthecard.com” is another citizen informed. Prepare for great justice on March 15th!

I attempted to start up an PM conversation with DefendingScientology a few times on YouTube, starting almost immediately when he opened up his account. In response to my questions, he has admitted to me that he is STILL IN SCIENTOLOGY, and PLANS ON MOVING TO CLEARWATER SOON. I have the PM’s, if you need them.

He appears to be OSA. He appears young. He clammed up on me as soon as he figured out I knew some stuff. He also recently cut off comments to non friends, and has locked down his page and videos like all other CoS have done.

They misquoted the declaration of war vid. Plus, they cited a vid that WE had youtube take down and WE notified the FBI. I still think it was one of them who made the vid because it was full of obvious non-anon lingo.

Hi mark, great stuff on that radio show, too bad half of the recording is really flawed.
Btw I think I know what we can expect will be the next move by COS, mainly attacking the imageboards and forums which the COS considers the main threat, just like they did with alt.religion.scientology.

point one:
this has nothing to do with freedom of speech or the first amendment. hatespeech and bigotry and freedom of religion are all protected under the first amendment as well they should be, however hatespeech and bigotry should no longer be an acceptable part of society.
For example the word “nigger” .. it is no longer acceptable to use this word, one may be legaly free to use it, but out of respect, the general population doesnt, at least not publicly, and the media has shunned the word. the word nigger has been made socially unaccepable as a part of the struggle to free the “black” people from the bonds of slavery and social injustice. Even the ever popular and powerful word “FUCK”, with its so many wonderous uses, is typically not used in church … but as soon as one leaves the holy parking lot …. “HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!!”
Personally, myself, in my own humble lowly opinion from this little keyboard in my infantessimally small point in the ever expanding universe, believe that this is an issue of personal and collective responsibility, one to be regulated by the thoughts and actions of the people as individuals and the resulting whole, not a legal issue, not one to be enforced by law or those in control. keep the law out of my head. keep thoughts free, keep discourse free, keep art free. freedom to think, write, love, and even hate should be free, BUT (behold the underlying truth) i do believe that people must be held responsible for their actions. it is ok to hate white people, but its not ok to kill them on the basis that they are white, and for one to spread hatespeech about white people, and propaganda to convince others to hate white people, is ones legal right, but, the act of propagating hatespeech is irresponsible, amoral, and detrimental to society just the same, and should be looked down upon, and corrected by society, in the same manner that it is the responsibility of the community to raise the child as well as the parents.
point two:
if people are worried about their tax exempt status they would be signing petitions, calling their congressmen, writing letters … not dressing up in costumes, hiding behind masks and spouting ignorant emotionally driven bigoted hatespeech. what about all the hundreds of other televangelists who also claim tax exempt status and prey on the hopeless and those who are downtrodden or poor giving them false hope all the while asking for money and living like kings.
point three:
arent there more pressing issues facing society that need to be contended with?
What about violence in the United States? How many people were murdered in America last year? One needs only to look at the Department of Justice website to see just how many lives were violently destroyed. Would it not be more beneficial to our society, our communities and humanity in general for people to rally against Violence instead?
darfur ? genocide ? why not focus ones energy on stopping an actual crisis where hundreds of thousands of people are dying rather than this anonymous emotionally driven religious persecution and bigotry?

Point one,
Anonymous has nothing against individuals believing in body-thetans, xenu, or the use of e-meters – if people feel that such practices and beliefs are useful to their daily life, it is not our place to prevent them from doing as such, Infact I believe that Freezone was mentioned in this interview and you should note that no action has been taken against those who practice scientology outside the restraints of the “Church of Scientology”. Religious persecution is not the issue here.

What we do have a problem with is the actions of the upper members of the “Church of Scientology” particularly those taken by the OSA and sea org to suppress critics speaking out, and informing the general public about such things as Operation Snow White and (ironically) the Fair Game Policy etc.

Point two,
You may be interested to know that dressing in costumes and “spouting emotionally driven bigoted hatespeech” is not all that is being done by anonymous. Letters have been written and calls made to local congressmen about COSs tax exempt status. Protests are simply an effective way to inform more people that are not aware of the churches history, particularly with the IRS, of why it should not be a tax exempt entity. Along with of course the churches human rights violations.

Point three,
A rally against violence is completely and utterly useless, murder is not going to cease, famine vanish, gang warfare only heard in history, because people went onto the street to protest. However, through protests, the public can be educated about incidents that the COS has tried to keep from the public eye. Things that mainstream media have backed off from knowing or having experienced COS’s litigious nature.

If any of you truly believed that you were against the corrupt organization, then why mock the beliefs?

It’s bullshit. You are ALL doing it for the LULZ and the Bandwagon effect. Your HATE RHETORIC EXPOSES YOU:

Evidence From the Discourse Analysis

Name Calling

All the extremist groups studied employ various propaganda techniques, but especially name-calling. This technique arouses prejudices by labeling the object as something the target audience should fear or hate. The purpose is to sway the audience to reject a person or an idea because of a perceived negative association of the idea or person with the symbol.

Persecution might have made an even stronger and more compelling case had it compared the state of present day American society with other historical instances of a Christian nation entering a period of religious repression (e.g., Russia at the time of the Communist revolution), thereby drawing lessons that might be applicable to our own situation.

For instance, many experts describe the unfolding of a religious persecution as having five stages:

stigmatizing the targeted group,
marginalizing its role in society,
vilifying it for alleged crimes or misconduct,
criminalizing it,
and finally, persecuting it outright.

Children and teenagers can be exposed to hate propaganda and online hate recruitment, but there is little knowledge about the actual practices of hate groups online in such efforts.

While many monitoring organizations warn about hate groups online, the extent and nature of the recruitment activities of extremists with teenagers has not been studied in detail. This is a relatively new field of study, both because of the nature of the content and the context.

Do you even read what people wrote? No one is against the beliefs, you can believe what you want to believe in.

The only thing people are protesting are Scientology’s corrupt actions, AS AN ORGANIZATION, not as a religious practice. There are many, many people that practice the dogma of Scientology freely (such as the Freezone people), and I have nothing against them and wish them the best with their practices.

However, I cannot stand for the ORGANIZATION that rules and belittles its own members. I cannot stand for the CORPORATION that extorts money out of its members. I cannot stand for the BUSINESS that runs any and all critics into the ground, simply for disagreeing with the church.

Well I can’t be positive on all of it but #3 on the injunction sounds like anon allright the problem is that with ANONYMOUS there really are more than one group, dozens really, and they all do things their own way.
As for harassment being the tactic, it IS for both sides weather legal or not harassment is just the form of combat in this confrontation right down to the protests and the injunctions.

LOL @ taking offense to the term “scifag.” The “sci” part might carry some derision, but the “fag” part, believe it or not, doesn’t. Anonymous calls everyone one kind of fag or another, including each other and themselves. It’s as ubiquitous and non-offensive as the word “guy” is to everyone else.

That’s one of the things I find so remarkable about the Anonymous cyber-subculture: They’ve successfully removed all the venom from the word “fag.”

the link is broken for the injunction, the link is http://www.xenutv.com/cw/cw-injunction-Anonymous.pdf
On a side note, if you have read the injuction, it states Florida Statute 784.046, putting emphasis on “stalking”, yet providing a full list of so called leaders of anonymous along with their address, people who were supposedly masked.
Now who’s the stalker?
They also make use of a generalision that anonymous=Anonymous, hence enabling them to use whichever fact could not be traced back to someone against Anonymous. They also take sentences out of context and state unconfirmed sources(while in this case it is rather hard to confirm, i can tell you I am keen on the whole project and had never even heard of some of the documents they quote)
They use a fact that dates back before the beginning of internet turmoil as being linked to Anonymous.
They start an injunction over a dozen people located in Florida, blaming on them world-wide events.
None of the so called bomb threats were real, and some were even the exact opposite (c.f. the candybox event)
They blame over 9000 people worldwide for the doings of a few individuals, which is just like saying “scientologists are dangerous individuals” because their upper management is.
That’s about all I can say without going on and on about the same things.
Then again, read it, it’s worth a thousands of my words to see theirs.

Rev, as for calling names being used by extremist groups, is that why Scientology calls people in the real world Wogs? Partly, but it’s also to create an “Us against Them” mentality inside their insulated world.

It is true though that the beginning has been more of a “let’s pick of them since their beliefs are outright dumb and they’re trespassing on our internet”, but it seems to have changed. While I have accepted most religions because of their millenia old presence (at least this concerns the major ones), it seems to me that trying to repeat the same process of creation within current society and using relatively recent ideas is difficult not to jeer at. And Mr Hubbard knew that it wouldn’t work if it was public, and made it the way we can see it now; despite all that people say of him, he was a clever individual, and what he created really is a well thought, no matter how “evil” it is (or has become).

It also happened to me that the Church of Scientology’s Creed states the freedom of religious practice BEFORE the basic human rights (while the European constitution project did it the other way around), while it is just the order it was put in, the order of things matters it generally states the most important things first.
If I may say so, and this is for you Revt, what would the results have been if one inverted the first and last commandments?
What would it have been if the 2nd and 16th amendment had been swapped?

World’s Dumbest Question: Has the government ever done a probe into the fact that SeaOrg members are paid a salary that’s less than the cost of their courses? That seems like indentured servitude, like the old “company store” scandals back in the early 1900’s. Remember how Teddy Roosevelt and his Trust Busters had to crack-down on the rail roads, mining, and oil producers. I’m no lawyer but it just seems like SeaOrg is doing that and they’re getting away with it. Maybe I’m wrong, and if so I apologize for wasting people’s time. P.S. Paul Fetch is stupid clown!

Rev, as for calling names being used by extremist groups, is that why Scientology calls people in the real world Wogs? Partly, but it’s also to create an “Us against Them” mentality inside their insulated world.

Yet another reason why Scientology is more cult than religion.

___

Mark,

I’ve never heard that before. All six times that I visted the Church of Scientology, I was never given the impression that outsiders should be derisively spoken of. Not anymore than Christians refer to non-Christians as “sinners.”

Try again Wise Beard Man, but these generalizations aren’t permissible in the eyes of the public as valid arguements for instigating world-wide villification. And what could be more conducive to an “Us vs Them” mentality than WEARING MASKS and PERPETUATING A FEAR OF THE OTHER GROUP?

Whether or not you believe your lies, the group Anonymous shares many characteristics with a certain Germain party back in the 30s. Scapegoating is a time-tested tactic of creating an enemy and you have these misguided teenagers SEEKING A SCIENTOLOGIST DEVIL.

Again, I reiterate Rev. Jacob, I believe the purpose of the campaign is to show the fault of the organization, not the individuals therein.

No one in Anonymous, as I believe, has any problem with the people practicing Scientology. Its the “Church” itself that is run miserably, and hurting its members. The members should have the right to practice their faith in whatever it is they believe, but not be charged for it, not be tortured or disconnected if they disapprove.

Please, Jacob, it is imperative for you to realize this. The members are fine, their faith is fine. The organization and how it is led, however, is not.

“an unbiased fellow Says:
March 13, 2008 at 8:13 pm
Again, I reiterate Rev. Jacob, I believe the purpose of the campaign is to show the fault of the organization, not the individuals therein.

No one in Anonymous, as I believe, has any problem with the people practicing Scientology. Its the “Church” itself that is run miserably, and hurting its members. The members should have the right to practice their faith in whatever it is they believe, but not be charged for it, not be tortured or disconnected if they disapprove.

Please, Jacob, it is imperative for you to realize this. The members are fine, their faith is fine. The organization and how it is led, however, is not.”

DEFINE VILIFICATION AND THEN EXAMINE PICTURES OF “ANONYMOUS” IN ACTION.

READ THEIR COMMENTS ON VARIOUS CHANNELS AND VIDEOS.

DON’T BE IGNORANT. “ANONYMOUS” IS A VERY CAPABLE AS A CATALYST FOR CHANGE,

Oh, but while I’m in the neighborhood… Hey, Rev. Reist, I’m getting right up in your face and barking, “What are you crimes sir? What have you done? Anonymous is getting people off of Scientology. We’re helping people. Why does that frighten you? Are you a Scientologist? Are you on Scientology right now? How much Scientology did you do before posting here? Tell us your crimes, Rev. Reist. What do you have to hide?”

. . . walking back after a few minutes, “What are your crimes, Mr. Reist? What are your crimes. Are you a child molester? Do you use Scientology to molest children? Do you use it to molest your own inner child? Come on, Reist. Tell us what your hiding.”

“You’ll find out most people, wog people have mock-ups which are two-dimensional” – “Creative Admiration Processing” lecture, 10 January 1953

“We’re making a new [society]. So let’s skip the approval button from a lot of wogs and settle down to work to make new people and better people.” – HCOPL 26 May 1961

“We work in a jungle of noncompliance and false reports called the wog world.” – HCOPL 5 Jan 1968

I know you’d like to pretend I don’t have a point — but I do.

And how about “Raw Meat?” When staffers ore sent out to Body Route people into the Org and those suckers are considered raw meat to be snapped up by Scientology, don’t you think that shows a crass motivation from the group?

If the Mormon kids sent on missions for two years were instructed to go out and find “Raw Meat” for their church, I’d think that was every bit as crass.

But then Hubbard was pretty clear when he ordered people to “Make Money, Make Money, Make More Money. Make Other People Make Money For You.”

That’s a great story you have woven. Cherry picking from the garden of facts.

Religious persecution is systematic mistreatment of an individual or group due to their religious affiliation. One of the major critisms of Scientology is that there are mandatory fees for members of the church. It’s clearly a scam since you have to pay to get in, right? But let’s not forget that organized religions need funds to keep their churches afloat—they just rely on donations. Scientologists are no different: they just happen to be straightforward about their financial needs. I’d prefer that over the guilt-inducing glares of senior citizens when the donation basket is passed around.

THERE’S NO REASONABLE BASIS FOR THIS ATTACK ON SCIENTOLOGY.

To demonstrate my point:

Let’s see if we can find a basis for calling believers in Jesus Christ “CHRI$T-FAGS”!

Here then, are a few choice verses that show just how intolerant these religionists are of other believers and nonbelievers.

**We shall start with the two verses that helped to inflict one of the biggest mass murders in history, the Inquisition.

Woman with “familiar spirits” must be stoned to death. Leviticus 20:27

“Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.” Exodus 22:18
***Kill those who are not Christian or Jewish:

You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13

Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20

Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11

Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him. Jude 5

False Jews are members of “the synagogue of Satan.” Revelations 2:9, 3:9

CHRISTIANS WANT TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD****

Everyone will have to worship Jesus — whether they want to or not. Philippians 2:10

A Christian can not be accused of any wrongdoing. Romans 8:33

(the following passages are from wikipedia.org on the subject of religious persecution):

The tendency of societies to alienate or repress different subcultures is a recurrent theme in human history. Moreover, because a person’s religion often determines to a significant extent his or her morality and personal identity, religious differences can be significant cultural factors.

Particularly (but not exclusively) in cases where the person’s religion fails to emphasize a love and tolerance for all humanity, he or she may fall into the trap of considering practitioners of another religion as amoral or inferior. At a societal level, this dehumanization of a particular religious group may readily turn into violence or other forms of persecution. Even those who consider religiosity in general to be declining (i.e. those believe secularization is progressing) would agree that religious persecution continues to be a serious issue worldwide.

***TAKE NOTE OF THIS PASSAGE****

Global media coverage of increasing numbers of participants in religious fundamentalism and religiously related terrorism obviate the prevalence of such persecutions worldwide. Indeed, in many countries of the world today, religious persecution has resulted in so much violence that it is considered a human rights problem.

Alright, I know these might be trite, but from someone outside looking in, these are rather amusing. And please, if you think there should be corrections, please, let me know. I do realize some of these will make no sense because of improper use of Co$ nomenclature.

Subtle campaigns:

Wouldn’t you like to be an OTIII?

I can’t believe I cleared/blew/auditted the whole thing.

Oh I wish I was an Operating Thetan, that is truly what I wish to be.
Cause if I was an Operating Thetan, then everyone would be in love with me.

“You sank my DC-8″

You deserve an audit today. At McHubbard’s.

“Can you clear me now?”

You give us $75,000, we’ll give you OTVII.

Dude, you’re getting an audit.

Engrams inside.

So easy to OT, no wonder it’s number one.

Is it live, or is it Xenu?

Welcome to the next level – O!T!

Get SeaOrg, it pays.

When L Ron Hubbard talks, people listen (could also be Tom Cruise)

You’re in good hands.

Kills BT’s dead.

I’m an OT now.

99 44/100% truth.

Does she or doesn’t she? …Only her auditor knows for sure.

I’m not an auditor, but I play one on TV.

Maybe she’s born with it, maybe it’s lastlife.

Strong enough for an OT VII, but made for an OT III.

Tough on BT’s. Soft on OT’s.

Scientology is your savings church, where your dollar buys you more!

Alright, it’s late, and these probably won’t make sense when I read them after a night of sleep. But I hope you enjoy.
_

Here’s the deal. We can quote back and forth. It stops making sense to at this point.

While it’s true that many churches request a tithe from their practitioners, there are none that demand this contribution, and certainly none other then the church of Scientology who demand this payment be made before the teachings of the religion are revealed.

And I know, I know, “proprietary information” and such. But the reason why the laws surrounding proprietary information were created was the fact that businesses need to compete with each other and can’t be giving out their secrets. Who is Scientology competing with?

So what is Scientology, a business or a religion? I tend to think some from column A, some from column B.

Now, let’s take a look at what you’ve stated earlier, “Religious persecution is systematic mistreatment of an individual or group due to their religious affiliation.”

You’re assuming there is a system in place. Anonymous has got to be the loosest “organization” I’ve heard of. What’s intriguing about Anonymous is that anyone can say they are from this organization…as it is, “Anonymous.” This leads to all sorts of problems, in that anyone can say they are from this group when regarding any actions they have taken. That’s why I personally have chosen not to affiliate myself with Anonymous. But just because there is the occasion where a supposed member of this organization has done something unlawful or said something demeaning doesn’t mean that the cause is unjust or unfounded, and to believe so would be a betrayal of reason.

So here is my question to you. If Scientology is a wholesome pure organization who has never hurt nor ever will hurt anyone, and that all of the “attacks” on Scientology is really just a ruthless group of people who are spreading discontent, pretending to be former members, creating false documents, etc, why would they be doing this? What could their reasoning possibly be? What would be the motivations behind such attacks?

Let me hear your side. Stop just saying that Anonymous is bad. That’s not really the point, nor is it the central issue of this website.

READ STEPHEN J GOULD, THE MISMEASURE OF MAN, excellent book… it reconstructs standardized testing and this perception of human intellectual perfection…. you will find some interesting information… It will be at your local library waiting for you…

I couldn’t agree more, Adam. Rev, stop being furious. Everyone here wants to understand why Scientology has to work like a **business** instead of a religious congregation.

Frankly, getting mad and going into combat-mode is foolish. You need to appreciate the fact that we live in a POST-JONESTOWN world! OKAY??? Come on, dude. Nobody wants to tar & feather you. We are irritated that a company gets special tax-exemptions that are for religious institutions since the products you sell are merely a *world view*. That’s very shallow and we feel it is an abuse of the law.

Oh and here’s another thing to consider before you go on another tirade, Rev. Your anger doesn’t make us go away.

“We are irritated that a company gets special tax-exemptions that are for religious institutions since the products you sell are merely a *world view*. That’s very shallow and we feel it is an abuse of the law.”

Gee, Jacob – I’ll just call ya Jake – you call yourself a “Rev.” yet throw insulting epithets (“dummy”) at other people. What a man of god you are.

I’ll make this simple for you: The Anonymous “raids” (Feb 10, March 15, April and onward) are all about protesting the ACTIONS of Co$ LEADERS. Anonymous opened its very first video Internet message to the Co@ by addressing it to “LEADERS of Scientology.” Note that was LEADERS of the cult. Got that?

The ACTIONS (not beliefs) that are the subject of this Saturday’s protests include (but aren’t limited to) “Fair Game” actions of lying, harassment, investigation, intimidation and anything else to try to destroy critics of the Co$. Google “Operation Freakout” and learn what kind of things $cientology is capable of.

Again, Jake: ACTIONS of Co$ LEADERS. That’s the focus of the protests.

See? It’s what the Co$ DOES that people find most objectionable.

But that’s not to say that I don’t have the right to ridicule $cientology beliefs in body thetans and Xenu, or deplore the way a “church” guards “intellectual property” so it can charge people enormous amounts of money for those secrets.

It’s my right to ridicule those beliefs and deplore those practices. And $cientologists believe in freedom, don’t they? Right, Jake?

Machiavelli’s THE PRINCE written in the 1500s has a good point, hold back until your power is great enough to destroy your enemy or allows you the ability to return to seek revenge… though he did mention that a great politician should know how to do harm, not necessarily participate in doing harm. What another great book at your local library…

For one month I have subjected you to ridiculous, baseless accusations, media-hyped stereotyping, and the most obnoxious series of videos ever concieved.

There is no way to guage the total number of hours you have wasted, the amount of energy you have expended, or the number of laughs I have enjoyed at your expense.

For the record, I am not a “$cientologist”-Devil, but I play one on the “internets”. The manner in which you acted upon your pre-concieved notions confirmed my original assessment of your group which I have detailed in I AM TROLL.

Never ceases to amaze me how some people love to spew dissent and derail discussions related to Co$. To Rev. Jacob K. Reist. I have seen your comments here and in other forums and on You Tube. What kind of Rev. are you exactly because quite frankly your venacular is quite unpreacher like and I for one would ask you to refrain from the use of words used to denifrate and belittle people. Please don’t accuse others of such and use the very tactics which you so vehemently deplore. Two I also find it interesting that your name if broken down seems somewhat an acronym of Jesus Christ …Jacob (JC) K_Reist(Christ)…Is this your actual name or are you poking fun at JC? Given the tirade against Christians above and their past “crimes” etc ( I won’t bother pasting it as it is far to long) one could be led to conclude that you are anti christian. SO again what exactly is your religion and for that matter this discussion has nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity as Anonymous from what I’ve seen has no “religious” belief other than each individuals personal one if any. Incidently what have Christians done lately in the last 25 years which might equate what the CoS has been doing for the last 50. And please to rehash the Catholic Priest pedophile thing as that has been addressed and the Church has accepted its responsibility and Catholics themselves were outraged by it and pedophilia is not anywhere in the Catholics Church tenants. Tell me of what other religion that has so hounded its ex members way beyond “ex communication” and particularly has used letigation to harrass and destroy any ex scientologist who dared question or reveal any of the CoS abuses of them. I don’t recall the Catholic Church taking its victims to civil court to sue them for revealing what the church did to them. For that matter how many churches to do you deliberatly fabricated evidence, planted it and procedeeded to use the justice system to falsely imprison a person (Paulette Cooper) and befriend her in an attempt to spy on her and drive her to commit suicide. For that matter how many churches have their own Secret Srvice branch (OSA) and actively hire P.I. to follow critics or anyone perceived to be one. For that matter how many churches have their own specialized massive group of lawyers strictly for the purpose of filing libel cases, etc. at a cost of millions of dollars just to suppress any and all information of the church and BTW the CoS books etc. are not in the local libraries freely available for all to see (I checked). Only what they wish for you to see. If that were the case it should then be freely available on the Net. And last time I looked the Bible was not copy right material..or the Koran…or the Tora…..only Scientology has the audacity to keep its materials in this manner.
As to your comment :

“Try again Wise Beard Man, but these generalizations aren’t permissible in the eyes of the public as valid arguements for instigating world-wide villification. And what could be more conducive to an “Us vs Them” mentality than WEARING MASKS and PERPETUATING A FEAR OF THE OTHER GROUP?”

Anonymous may wear a physical mask to hide its identity from the church and for good reason given its litigious nature. But there are other kinds of “masks”. The church hides behind a huge mask of intimidation and fear and has huge $$$$$$ and numerous lawyers and its own department of scary goons (OSA).

Again another of your statements:

“Whether or not you believe your lies, the group Anonymous shares many characteristics with a certain Germain party back in the 30s. Scapegoating is a time-tested tactic of creating an enemy and you have these misguided teenagers SEEKING A SCIENTOLOGIST DEVIL.

You all need to grow up.

Rev JKR”

Such belittling comments to our youth that have shown that they are far more educated, intelligent and wise beyond their years. These are not children. They are actually quite refreshing and leads me to believe that our youth of today is not being given enough credit. And anyway while a good percentage of anonymous falls in the category of the young and perhaps not so jaded ther are far more that are not, come from all walks of life, ages, experiences, religion, professions, eex scienos, long time critics, educators, politicians, journalist and the list goes on and on. The internet has created a revolution and we are indeed living in the Information Age. The internet is by no means perfect but it certainly gives more opportunity for the general Joe Public to be more informed and exercise free speech. Nazi Germany sought to suppress all free speech so it is an affront to me personally that the red flag of Nazism keeps getting used by people such as you and the Co$ to derail the abuses of the Cos. It is a hot button to press and will of course get people riled up. Stay on topic please.

And finally

:SF,

What does that have to do with anything? GUILT BY ASSOCIATION is never a reasonable basis to descredit one’s message.

REV JKR

“What does that have to do with anything? GUILT BY ASSOCIATION is never a reasonable basis to descredit one’s message.

REV JKR”

I have no problem with this statement except you are arguing from both sides of your mouth, I believe they call that Double speak? What you accuse Anonymous of being or doing is exactly what you yourself and CoS are doing. Talk about the pop calling the kettle black.

Rev. Reist if that is truly your real name or profession I have no bones to pick with you personally. I am anonymous but not of Anonymous. I read and ave read many posts; some are educational, some entertaining, some idiotic, some juvenile, some dismissable, some forgetable, but somehow yours always leave me feeling ATTACKED, BELITTLED, AND INSULTED even when I am not the object of your scorn. This is not good debating tactics. As a member of the Audience looking in so far I can only tell you that Anonymous has more points in their score column that you and the CoS.

Thanks for listening (reading) my thoughts on the matter and this is my opinion and only my opinion based on what I have seen and read so far.

Okie Dokie. So Reverend Jacob K. Reist is essentially a Demon meister hate monger. So what do you do in your spare time? All future posts by him will be ignored by moi. Enjoy your life such as it is Mr. Reister. Must suck to be you.

Oh, never mind everybody. Scientology ripped off thousands of people and indirectly caused the death of at least a handfull of people that we’re aware of: but it’s alright. They were doing it for the LULs. He’s a TROLL.

Hey you know what, scum-bag? You aren’t a troll. You’re a pathetic little child who gets picked on by bullies at school. Instead of lifting weights and learning how to use your hands to protect yourself you decide to sit on your lazy ass and start arguments on the web. Hey man, get a social life. Who knows, you might even become passionate about something happening in the world – like the Scientology controversy just for an example! … Idiot… “I am a troll.” Take a bow, you insect.

I wish there was a way for me to take action against Scientology too, but since I’m in Germany and Scientology here is having a hard time anyway AND the anti-scientology-network is hard to get in contact with I guess there is nothing to be done by me. Just waiting and being ready in case worse times come our way.

Jonathon Barbera has been studying Dianetics and Scientology since 1990. He is not in the Church of Scientology and certainly does not represent the church or its religion. Jonathon Barbera is also the author of seven books and several software titles.

About The Column
An accurate view of the subjects of Dianetics and Scientology (*demosthens’s note* HA FUCKING HA) from a former member of the Church of Scientology.