They seem to be very determined and are not put off by being given the run-around.The language is rich too.However, (whatever your religious persuasion) they do pray a lot, and seem most devout.And another thing I have noticed, is that they seem to care and have compassion for those they hunt, track down and bring in.They're not physically gentle, but they use loving words, and seem to project a good attitude.And they want a lot of the folks they catch to "clean up their act".

Yes, they show compassion. Their intentions are good. They pray, I like that. They ask for blessings and protection in the way that is common in their environment, not very different from the Buddhist prayers I sometimes see.

So, is it wrong or right livelyhood, in the Buddhist sense, Fede? What would you say?

I agree with Peter that it doesn't constitute Wrong LIvelihood per se, but I think it would be a real challenge to uphold the Noble Eightfold Path as a Bounty Hunter... particularly Right Action and Right Thought/Intention.... even though apparently they do OK at the Right Speech.

Metta,Retro.

If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding: Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)

Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7

Don't care for the program! it is not a case of justice but wallet is served!yes some criminals need to be tracked down, but people are employed to do this, bounty hunters are looking for the money and in this case possible redemption.bounty hunters pray not only on those who are wanted but on the pocket of those who want protecting!

This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!Blog,-Some Suttas Translated,Ajahn Chah."Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

That cat only just barely escaped Mexican prison -- only by his media-generated, and backed, celebrity -- for the kidnapping that brought so much initial media attention to his little freak show. Mexican prison makes Angola (LA) look like a cakewalk.

I am reminded of that "Crocodile Hunter" idiot, throwing himself on a stingray's barb.

One day, that poor attention-seeking moron will attempt to strut and showboat his way through some desperate soul's front door just long enough for them to place both barrels of a 12-gauge right on his lips and splatter his brains all over the following cameras and your television screen.

Manapa wrote:Don't care for the program! it is not a case of justice but wallet is served!yes some criminals need to be tracked down, but people are employed to do this, bounty hunters are looking for the money and in this case possible redemption.bounty hunters pray not only on those who are wanted but on the pocket of those who want protecting!

Greetings, Braveheart,

but I didn't really want to know wether you feel aversion to the series.

Right livelihood ? Yes or No?

:smilie with courteous bow:

bounty hunters pray not only on those who are wanted but on the pocket of those who want protecting!

Do you mean "prey" or "pray"? (Truly not sure....) I assume it's the first...

To be honest, I also prey on the wallets of my customers, lest I want to starve.

That I enjoy my job is the cherry on the cake....

I also assume we all prey on the reward of our work, so to speak the wallet of our employers or customers? You keep 'em satisfied so you have to eat, no=?

That cat only just barely escaped Mexican prison -- only by his media-generated, and backed, celebrity -- for the kidnapping that brought so much initial media attention to his little freak show. Mexican prison makes Angola (LA) look like a cakewalk.

I am reminded of that "Crocodile Hunter" idiot, throwing himself on a stingray's barb.

One day, that poor attention-seeking moron will attempt to strut and showboat his way through some desperate soul's front door just long enough for them to place both barrels of a 12-gauge right on his lips and splatter his brains all over the following cameras and your television screen.

I am reminded of that "Crocodile Hunter" idiot, throwing himself on a stingray's barb.

Ouch! That hurts ....I'm sure this is some colorful language, but what happened to right speech and to compassion?

One day, that poor attention-seeking moron will attempt to strut and showboat his way through some desperate soul's front door just long enough for them to place both barrels of a 12-gauge right on his lips and splatter his brains all over the following cameras and your television screen.

Boah...!!!

Please.

Anyhow, even though I am obviously less familiar with the series and Dog Chapman as most members here, I hear he caught a serial rapist , for which I assume a lot of victims and possible future victims and families are thankful.

I am also quite sure with this he accumulated good karma.

I also know that the local auhtorities often can't or won't investigate and search as thouroughly as necessary,- they are often not as motivated to work as selfemployed people whose livelihood depends on success, and not on physical presence in their shift.

I don't think there is anything wrong with catching criminals, is there?

Many jobs are dangerous.

Life will kill ya anyhow.

Last edited by Annapurna on Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:07 am, edited 3 times in total.

"A lay follower should not engage in five types of business. Which five? Business in weapons, business in human beings, business in meat, business in intoxicants, and business in poison."

— AN 5.177

It could be argued that bounty hunting is wrong livelihood because of the significant role of weapons and the similarity to human trafficking. Whichever way you want to argue it, it is pretty clear that the activities of the bounty hunter in question are morally reprehensible. Personally, I wouldn't pursue bounty hunting as a career option if I could avoid it and I don't think 'Dog' or any of his associates would make for model citizens.Kind regards

Ben

Learn this from the waters:in mountain clefts and chasms,loud gush the streamlets,but great rivers flow silently.

Annabel wrote:Ouch! That hurts ....I'm sure this is some colorful language, but what happened to right speech and to compassion?

It is being balanced with experience and clear-seeing.

One day, that poor attention-seeking moron will attempt to strut and showboat his way through some desperate soul's front door just long enough for them to place both barrels of a 12-gauge right on his lips and splatter his brains all over the following cameras and your television screen.

Boah...!!!

Please.

Ah, please, ...what...?

Anyhow, even though I am obviously less familiar with the series and Dog Chapman as most members here, I hear he caught a serial rapist , for which I assume a lot of victims and possible future victims and families are thankful.

You really think that wasn't staged and all set up nice and safe for him....?

I am also quite sure with this he accumulated good karma.

...yeah...sure...

I also know that the local auhtorities often can't or won't investigate and search as thouroughly as necessary,- they are often not as motivated to work as selfemployed people whose livelihood depends on success, and not on physical presence in their shift.

Sounds like a rather broad and self-serving over-generalization to me. You haven't been following the recent activities of the Denver Metro police forces lately, I can see.

I don't think there is anything wrong with catching criminals, is there?

Many jobs are dangerous.

Life will kill ya anyhow.

retreat, retreat, retreat....

Last edited by stuka on Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

"A lay follower should not engage in five types of business. Which five? Business in weapons, business in human beings, business in meat, business in intoxicants, and business in poison."

— AN 5.177

It could be argued that bounty hunting is wrong livelihood because of the significant role of weapons and the similarity to human trafficking. Whichever way you want to argue it, it is pretty clear that the activities of the bounty hunter in question are morally reprehensible. Personally, I wouldn't pursue bounty hunting as a career option if I could avoid it and I don't think 'Dog' or any of his associates would make for model citizens.Kind regards

"A lay follower should not engage in five types of business. Which five? Business in weapons, business in human beings, business in meat, business in intoxicants, and business in poison."

— AN 5.177

It could be argued that bounty hunting is wrong livelihood because of the significant role of weapons and the similarity to human trafficking. Whichever way you want to argue it, it is pretty clear that the activities of the bounty hunter in question are morally reprehensible. Personally, I wouldn't pursue bounty hunting as a career option if I could avoid it and I don't think 'Dog' or any of his associates would make for model citizens.Kind regards

Ben

Thank you, Ben! Very helpful.

However, don't you find the word "business" a bit vague as well?

I read "dealing" in other translations, as here for instance by Bikkhu Bodhi, which seems to be a bot more specific, at least in my understanding. "Business" is a very vast field.

Right Livelihood (samma ajiva)

Right livelihood is concerned with ensuring that one earns one's living in a righteous way. For a lay disciple the Buddha teaches that wealth should be gained in accordance with certain standards. One should acquire it only by legal means, not illegally; one should acquire it peacefully, without coercion or violence; one should acquire it honestly, not by trickery or deceit; and one should acquire it in ways which do not entail harm and suffering for others.34 The Buddha mentions five specific kinds of livelihood which bring harm to others and are therefore to be avoided: dealing in weapons, in living beings (including raising animals for slaughter as well as slave trade and prostitution), in meat production and butchery, in poisons, and in intoxicants (AN 5:177). He further names several dishonest means of gaining wealth which fall under wrong livelihood: practicing deceit, treachery, soothsaying, trickery, and usury (MN 117). Obviously any occupation that requires violation of right speech and right action is a wrong form of livelihood, but other occupations, such as selling weapons or intoxicants, may not violate those factors and yet be wrong because of their consequences for others.

The Thai treatise discusses the positive aspects of right livelihood under the three convenient headings of rightness regarding actions, rightness regarding persons, and rightness regarding objects.35 "Rightness regarding actions" means that workers should fulfill their duties diligently and conscientiously, not idling away time, claiming to have worked longer hours than they did, or pocketing the company's goods. "Rightness regarding persons" means that due respect and consideration should be shown to employers, employees, colleagues, and customers. An employer, for example, should assign his workers chores according to their ability, pay them adequately, promote them when they deserve a promotion and give them occasional vacations and bonuses. Colleagues should try to cooperate rather than compete, while merchants should be equitable in their dealings with customers. "Rightness regarding objects" means that in business transactions and sales the articles to be sold should be presented truthfully. There should be no deceptive advertising, misrepresentations of quality or quantity, or dishonest manoeuvers.

So, let's take a look at bounty hunting.

1. Obviously, it is not dealing with slaves, = people who are illegally deprived of their freedom.

2. Obviously, it is not dealing with prostitutes.

3.It is not dealing with animals.

4. It is not dealig with intoxicants.

5. It is not dealing with weapons, only using them as both a protection against armed criminals and to be able to arrest armed criminals.

6. They don't violate the law by wearing arms.

7. They don't violate the law by arresting criminals, on the contrary, the State approves of them.

8. They only use coercion in a defensive manner: when peaceful means don't have a grip on people who resist the laws and their executives, police and bounty hunters.

The Laws of the State say you may not offer resistance. So when you do, somebody has to interfere, and protect the others: our Police would be wrong livelyhood, and I don't think Buddha wanted to say or teach that, mattroffact, herhe says:" only by legal means, not illegall", and the institution of Police is legal, also catching criminals the Police can't get a hold of.

Annabel wrote:Ouch! That hurts ....I'm sure this is some colorful language, but what happened to right speech and to compassion?

It is being balanced with experience and clear-seeing.

One day, that poor attention-seeking moron will attempt to strut and showboat his way through some desperate soul's front door just long enough for them to place both barrels of a 12-gauge right on his lips and splatter his brains all over the following cameras and your television screen.

Boah...!!!

Please.

Ah, please, ...what...?

Anyhow, even though I am obviously less familiar with the series and Dog Chapman as most members here, I hear he caught a serial rapist , for which I assume a lot of victims and possible future victims and families are thankful.

You really think that wasn't staged and all set up nice and safe for him....?

I am also quite sure with this he accumulated good karma.

...yeah...sure...

I also know that the local auhtorities often can't or won't investigate and search as thouroughly as necessary,- they are often not as motivated to work as selfemployed people whose livelihood depends on success, and not on physical presence in their shift.

Sounds like a rather broad and self-serving over-generalization to me. You haven't been following the recent activities of the Denver Metro police forces lately, I can see.

I don't think there is anything wrong with catching criminals, is there?

Many jobs are dangerous.

Life will kill ya anyhow.

retreat, retreat, retreat....

It is being balanced with experience and clear-seeing.

Are you saying that wrong speech is allowed and a lack of compassion is also excused as long as you have experience and clarity of ---what exactly?

Ah, please, ...what...?

I was hoping you would understand without elaboration. Since you asked, kindly :

I hope to enjoy gentle speech and compassion and sympathy for all beings, as that is what the Tathagatha taught us...

It hurts me when you call Steve Irwin a moron... Do you really want to hurt me?

Sounds like a rather broad and self-serving over-generalization to me.

That self-employed people have a different attitude to work?

It is a general view, sure, because you have exceptions to the rule everywhere.

But where is it self serving? What do I gain from stating facts reality presents?

It is a fact for me, based on experience and comparison. I'm not saying employed people are not with genuine joy, interest and devotion at work, but you can (in general) multiply it for the self employed and employers because.