@PJ Thompson Funny--my wife just said "Liz Phair is a great get...but who's Lana Del Rey?"

6:38 pm February 4, 2012

Bill Hewlett Jr wrote:

Love Liz and ANYTHING she has to say is relevant, usually because she's right.

6:43 pm February 4, 2012

MJ wrote:

Love Liz too. Good read.

6:49 pm February 4, 2012

Branden wrote:

I'm a bit smitten with Lana Del Rey, and I'm glad that Liz sees a kindred spirit in this next generation - and maybe it's just my bias because I first heard Liz Phair at a specific and memorable point in my life, and she's been there for me at many other specific and memorable points in my life...

I guess what I'm trying to say is, I know Liz Phair, and Lana Del Rey is no Liz Phair.

6:56 pm February 4, 2012

J A McErlean wrote:

Ms Phair is yet another accomplished alumna from NewTrier East HS in Winnetka, IL - the same school that graduated Charlton Heston, Rock Hudson and Ann-Margret.
Her adoptive father was an accomplished Professor of Medicine/Infectious Disease at Northwestern U. Medical School.

7:17 pm February 4, 2012

Patty wrote:

Liz Phair, you've probably come the closest.

Mama Del Rey

7:30 pm February 4, 2012

Cthulhu wrote:

The best that can be said of Lana Del Rey is that her music does not suck as bad as Liz Phair, whose talent exists in inverse proportion to her Obaman self-regard. DEATH TO ALL BUT METAL!!!!!

8:41 pm February 4, 2012

Saberus wrote:

Now everybody using Lana Del Rey as advertisement to get noticed. facepalm. ave.

8:47 pm February 4, 2012

Anonymous wrote:

Who is Liz Phair? (Other than a narcissist). Who is Lana Del Ray? Who cares? Why is this in my WSJ?

8:49 pm February 4, 2012

matt wrote:

This is nearly incoherent.

8:53 pm February 4, 2012

Minxie wrote:

This is not a piece about Lana Del Rey... it's a piece about Liz Phair. As a girl who grew up in the 90s, I used to love Exile in Guyville, so it's depressing to see Phair using "girl power" reflexively in service of her own canonization and in place of any thoughtful analysis of the performer purportedly under discussion. Phair downloaded Lana Del Rey's album in toto, but did she listen to it? What did she think of it?

8:53 pm February 4, 2012

Error:840 wrote:

It sounds from her comments as if she hasn't even listened to LDR. I guess it's hard to be objective when you only view life through the narrow prism of your ideology. The eye that alters, alters all.

10:03 pm February 4, 2012

John Willkie wrote:

Okay, we now know what Liz Phair thinks of Liz Phair; I wonder what Laura Del Rey thinks of Liz Phair? Does she think that Liz Phair is moderately talented?

12:03 am February 5, 2012

eeeeeeee wrote:

@Anon: why are you commenting?

12:14 am February 5, 2012

Scott Baines wrote:

Listen here, young lady. All that matters is what makes you happy.

12:19 am February 5, 2012

Astralgirl01 wrote:

LIz, what a waste of your apparently valuable time and efforts. LDR is not the great savior of rock music-- she's an untested, unpolished artist who is being foisted on the public sheerly out of the need to keep the blogger hype machine churning. Yes, I will agree that Video Games was a great single, and that there may be 2 or 3 more good tracks on her debut, but 3/15 tracks does not equal a career artist. I guarantee that in 5 years, LDR will be nothing but a blip on a future SNL "What Were We Thinking" episode.

12:31 am February 5, 2012

MamaMae wrote:

It doesn't matter what Liz thinks, though I love her fierce independence. What matters is that people continue to create. And it's alright to re-create. Ultimately, the problem isn't Del Rey herself (or who she used to be), the problem is the media and how it works for (or against) certain chosen ones.

12:33 am February 5, 2012

Jake wrote:

Liz, shut ya trap. I don't see any element of sexism in the criticism of Lana del Rey.

12:33 am February 5, 2012

40 something wrote:

Liz, what you were trying to be?????? Exit in Guyville authenticated me. I just listened to it again recently. It's amazing!!!!!!!! Still goes through me. Wish you had written it 10 years earlier when I had enough time to really take it in.

12:45 am February 5, 2012

DS wrote:

Anonymous wrote: "Why is this in my WSJ?"
Um, because as it says in the sidebar, "Speakeasy is an online magazine covering media, entertainment, celebrity and the arts."

Any other questions we can help you with today?

12:53 am February 5, 2012

DS wrote:

Astralgirl01 wrote:
"LIz, what a waste of your apparently valuable time and efforts. LDR is not the great savior of rock music– she’s an untested, unpolished artist who is being foisted on the public..."

Neither Phair nor anyone else I've seen has acted as if LDR is great or a savior. And Phair's point seems to be that it's good that musicians can get the chance to be heard, whether they have the most talent or polish or not.

The no talent/unprepared/overhyped complaints were also made about punk rock when it emerged in the 1970s -- "who are these untrained, barely capable musicians and why do they deserve all this attention"? Some older readers might remember all the media exposure the not-greatly-talented Sex Pistols got in there day-- and that was before the Internet, and in the infancy of cable TV. No one would argue that Ramones were the most talented musicians, either.

And members of Pink Floyd have admitted that barely knew how to play their instruments when they first started out as a band.

12:56 am February 5, 2012

Moonchild wrote:

Lana Del Rey is a triple threat: she's beautiful, she sings, and she writes her own songs. Part of LDR's mystique is that she is enigmatic -- a walking contradiction. She can't be pigeon-holed and categorized. Good for her! Her style is her own, and the haters are attacking her because she is glamorous and different...more power to her. As long as LDR can keep them guessing, she'll remain current and relevant. Hopefully, she'll parlay her brand into an industry.

1:56 am February 5, 2012

Mike Conley wrote:

You go, girls! There's a lot of men totally behind you. Get out there and be who you are. Yeah, baby!

Liz, you rock. Always have and always will.

2:12 am February 5, 2012

Bylow Selhai wrote:

Lana Del Rey is the queen of the Twenty-Teens. I like everything I see and hear with her program. BTW since when is star-packaging a dirty word? We seem to blindly accept talent when it arrives via a TV contest... We seem to appreciate a singer's name change (Sting, Cher, Lady Gaga)... Better get use to it, Lana is here to stay.

2:31 am February 5, 2012

Alvin Zest wrote:

Love LDR and you are pretty good too, if only you'd got the pouty lips too, it would've made all the difference

2:38 am February 5, 2012

Kai wrote:

People get so caught up in stupidity. Lana is great, her album is dreamy.

2:55 am February 5, 2012

Laissez Faire wrote:

Liz this does come across as me-too I'm jealous me-me-me. so whiney and annoying. Accept your fate, you wish but it wasn't to be

3:10 am February 5, 2012

SPR wrote:

Why are people making a big deal about her changing her stage name? Artists do it all the time and it never seems to matter but suddenly in this case it is a bad thing? It is almost as though people, critics want her to fail but cannot find anything bad about her music so they are going on about something as irrelevant as her changing her name. She could call herself what ever she wants, as long as her music sounds good, who cares? Its like giving The Adventures of Tom Sawyer a bad review because Mark Twain's real name is Samuel Clemens - It doesn't matter!!!! These critics are a joke. I am also bemused about all of the flack Lana is getting for her performances on SNL. Sure she may seem a but nervous and missed a few notes but music is not supposed to be perfect, these kids brought up in a digital age do not understand the art form. Finally an artist gets up and actually sings, not over her vocal track, and not lip syncing, its about time. She should be getting commended for being the first brave solo artist to get up there and do that in a long time.

3:51 am February 5, 2012

Anonymous wrote:

Love it

7:35 am February 5, 2012

doogin32 wrote:

I was all too willing to agree with your anarchy/feminism belief until you referenced a bunch of magazine cover worthy females as examples as why your're so "edgy". Females have never had the advantages that males have, but apparently you represent none of those defying that image. Supporting beautiful people making mediocre music = no progression.

7:58 am February 5, 2012

Anonymous wrote:

Spot on analysis Liz. To many people can't stand a female like LDR who speaks her mind musically. Just like you she stirring the pot and pissing people off.

9:21 am February 5, 2012

Irrelevant wrote:

Liz, if your life of ease during pampered childhood, your parentally subsidized hard urban living, and then commercial success has left left this bitter get help.
Acting like a selfish entitled brat is not feminism. Your characterization of all men being a way/or having a sound is as offensive as me saying flat chested gals should be ignored.

9:56 am February 5, 2012

Anonymous wrote:

Judging from the all over the map range of comments regarding this essay, I think Liz got exactly the kind of reaction she was looking for. Way to shake up the hornet's nest Lizzie!

10:24 am February 5, 2012

lstwrs wrote:

I am all for more women in rock, in music, more women in everything but its heartbreaking to see an artist who has had their career bought for them. Also, this character, this snobby, drugged out, disaffected character is awful. Here is the bio from her twitter: "EVERYTHING I WANT I HAVE. MONEY, NOTORIETY AND RIVIERAS - I EVEN THINK I FOUND GOD- IN THE FLASH BULBS OF YOUR PRETTY CAMERAS." I guess that says it all right? Vapid electro-kitties, Liz? Is that really what you were fighting for?

10:30 am February 5, 2012

Who? wrote:

Good grief ... what a bunch of narcissistic drivel. OMG! She speaks her mind! How threatening to "the establishment". Great ... a review of an utterly self-involved woman by another self-involved woman. Yes, totally important! They will change the world!

I'd never heard of "LDR". Looked at the video on the site ... and I can see why not. She's actually just ... not very good.

Why is the WSJ printing this kind of crap?

11:59 am February 5, 2012

Donk wrote:

Not a very well written essay, but we get the point. LDR stands out from the crowd. You have to be somewhat controversial in the music business to sell anything. Talent doesn't equate to popularity or money. And most performers really can't sing worth a damn anyway, at least without electronic backup. I don't know what being male or female has to do with it though Liz. The most popular performers these days are female. So maybe Liz is living in the past a little.

12:00 pm February 5, 2012

Ken Green wrote:

It must be utterly exhausting for Mz. Phair to haul around such a humongous chip on her shoulder. I'm sorry for her, since her burden is entirely of her own imagining. The "patriarchy" is a feminist propaganda construct with no basis in reality. Women, at least those with abilities and discipline (such as Marie Curie) have always been accepted by men, and have held prestigious places in society. In the arts, women have always had a vast presence: Barbra Streisand, anyone? Julie Andrews? Norah Jones? k.d. lang! I could list two dozen female singers, another 2 dozen actresses, opera singers, dancers (of various kinds) who were lauded back to the late 1800s, and far earlier.

Male-oppression, for the most part, is mythical: indeed, men have always died in vast numbers in the service of women, done the hardest, most dangerous, most thankless jobs, and borne the ultimate in responsibility for the welfare of their women and children. We live shorter lives, as we have evolved to be hunters and defenders at the expense of longevity.

The reality of human history is that both sexes have been constrained by their biology, within an evolutionary context. Their biological natures constrained their roles to varying extents: men could not bear nor suckle children. Women could not muster the speed or strength to take their place in a hunting pack that was going after a cave bear, or protecting the camp from a predatory mountain lion.

Feminists, the true "deniers" of biological evolution have rejected the reality of human history for their own "enabling myths" of patriarchy and oppression. Ms. Phair needs to throw off the blinders of feminist propaganda and, well, grow the hell up.

Bottom line LP - There are too many woman Artists that fall through the cracks that actually HAVE talent because of drivel like this. Her Dad's money helped push this through Interscope..... just like 2 other woman "artists" that have massive hit records....... CC - TS...... This is a sham.... against all the woman that work their asses off honing the actual craft of songwriting and do not GET to be heard.....

12:49 pm February 5, 2012

anjin-san wrote:

"Rock" ceased to be anything other than a product marketed by entertainment conglomerates long ago. It's about as inspiring and relevant as laundry soap. Every so often, an actual artist like Tori Amos or Sam Beam shows up and makes important music, but it's fairly rare. Is anyone really suppose to by impressed by Phair congratulating herself for "taking on the boys club" or the fact that Del Rey does not lip synch?

Here's a clue kids. If you want to hear a woman kick some ass, listen to Aretha, Janis, or early Jefferson Airplane. (Honorable mention for Martha Wainwright's version of "Ball & Chain") If you want a singer to rock your world, pick up a Marvin Gaye record.

12:58 pm February 5, 2012

Bridget wrote:

What is the point of this article? We learn that Liz Phair once had an album that was maybe controversial, she doesn't think Lana Del Ray has any talent, and she asserts that somehow men have created problems in the music business. Mentioning her album is a nice sales tactic, she's a shrew for criticising another artist without any reason, and the faux feminist rant on guys is a nice straw man argument.

1:07 pm February 5, 2012

Cookie puss wrote:

Great work Liz! It is about time somebody stood up for the entitlement of rich, physically attractive but woefully untalented women to share their sel indulgent "art" with the world. How about a follow up piece discussing the feminist virtues of Paris Hilton or Heidi Montag.

1:08 pm February 5, 2012

Richaod wrote:

@Ken Green: So the fact that women still make 77 cents to the male dollar is imaginary? And since Obama's president, the USA must be some post-race utopia of equality, right?

It's not that women can't shatter that glass ceiling - it's just that society still makes it harder for them to do so. Lana Del Rey's the perfect example; she's still been subjected to an absurd level of scrutiny, the kind that would never happen to a male artist, based on factors totally separate from her music. On the other hand, one Robert Zimmermann started going by the name Bob Dylan fifty years ago, and it didn't bother anyone.

1:15 pm February 5, 2012

FM wrote:

It's not a feminist issue. Lana Del Ray - as Liz points out - isn't talented. She can't sing - and not in a Britney Spears, Madonna way - and she has really bad songs that are unlistenable. Anyone with this combination of negative points, be they male or female, has no business on the stage. The fact that Ms. Del Ray has had previous records under previous names is also immaterial. However, the fact that she is a spoiled rich brat who is getting this chance to perform based on her wealth and not on her merit is extremely relevant. And no, that's not a feminist issue either - there are plently of crappy dudes out there.

Lana Del Ray is the apotheosis of the problems in the music industry. She herself lists one of her main talents as being beautiful; I contend that this is her ONLY talent.

1:15 pm February 5, 2012

Cookie puss wrote:

Right on Richoad! You never hear criticism of male singers. I mean....look at all the fat middle aged men taking up space on the pop charts.

1:17 pm February 5, 2012

M wrote:

Ken Green: I'm glad for you, that your reproductive autonomy has never been challenged, or your capabilities and sanity systemically questioned on the basis of gender, or your contributions to art and history either minimized or overshadowed. I'm happy you feel that sexism stuff is totally over, you guys, and utterly threatened by Phair's commentary (which -- by the way -- should help demonstrate that sexism totally ISN'T over. For the record, I'd like it if the general public were able to name more influential female scientists in such a male-dominated field. Marie Curie is the cop-out go-to. I can name plenty others, but that's because I am one).

All that aside, I can't say I have much inclination to listen to Lana Del Rey (or Liz Phair's most recent records), but I thank Liz for her commentary. Women don't have to be Aretha or Janis to kick ass; I applaud any woman who says, "Forget the box you put me in and forget your standards; I'm doing what makes me feel good, and if you don't like it, you can take a long walk off a short pier." This includes the pursuit of saccharine pop music, which I don't think is inherently illegitimate. Obviously, her craft should not be immune to criticism -- what bothers me is the dismissive "Who cares?" as though women's contributions to art, pop and mainstream or not, should not be thoroughly and seriously discussed. Insisting that we don't matter just because you don't like us proves the feminist point.

1:59 pm February 5, 2012

Magdalena wrote:

Liz who? Just kidding she had that song, Seether a long time ago. Oh wait, that was Veruca Salt!

Riding in on the coat tails of someone you call " not overwhelmingly talented. " is just delicious! You jealous, brilliant has been!

"I would argue that the uncomfortable feelings she elicits are simply the by-product of watching a woman wanting and taking like a man."

I would argue you haven't really listened to Lana...she's not wanting and taking like a man, she's barely singing about being a rich girl, loving a bad boy and drinking PBR *on ice!* at 16. I'm a feminist too, and I think that it is her right to sing about whatever she wants, but let's call a spade a spade. She's not wanting and taking like a man. She's wanting a man to want and take-but still it's her right.

Liz, go back to irrelevance. Please and thanks. Pray that Lana will cover Supernova, so you can stay on the pay roll a little longer.

2:09 pm February 5, 2012

Britt wrote:

Liz Phair is so complimentary of the way LDR is capturing the spotlight. Ms. Phair is similarly reveling in the opportunity to garner exposure. It's hard not to respect Liz Phair for the mark she has made on so many women, but the praise for simply eliciting these discussions amounts to little more than just PR working its magic -- this doesn't deserve to be a discourse on feminism.

2:09 pm February 5, 2012

assorted wrote:

I think it's unfortunate she wants to make the issue about gender and, more specifically, assume that anyone that is repelled by LDR does so out of a gender issue. I find her repellent strictly from an anti-corporate, pro-talent standpoint. She was tried to be sold as "indie" and "outsider" by a corporate machine - and that's where this started (before her SNL performance), and the internet and the indie music community justifiably threw this upper middle class, norm trash back at them.

Then again, maybe this point of view makes sense for Liz Phair. Mrs. Phair was a talented musician that commanded respect that made a terrible decision to try 'selling out' and making corporate pushed bubble gum pop and was rightly ridiculed for it by the same people that now think of LDR as a joke. Me, for one. It's a little annoying that she insists on making this about gender. That's silly, I'll just as easily scoff and roll my eyes at male corporate whores - Maroon 5? Toby Keith? Nickelback? Flo Rida? Don't worry, Ms. Phair, we have no respect for those male corporate pushed stars either. We HAD respect for you, until that unfortunate decision where you embarrassed yourself, that you seem stuck in thinking was rejected by us due to sexism...

2:30 pm February 5, 2012

Love Liz Phair wrote:

Love Love Love Liz Phair. Pure Rock Goddess!

2:41 pm February 5, 2012

anjin-san wrote:

> Women don’t have to be Aretha or Janis to kick ass

Perhaps not, but you have to be good, and good is a funny thing. The Ramones did not have a lot of talent, but decades later, their music is still worth listening to. Maybe I am biased because I had the good luck to grow up during the latter days of a golden age in creativity, but 98% of the music that has been reaching the general public for many years now is souless dreck. It's a product, it's not art. It is disposable. Music should be essential.

Average talents loom large only because the bar is so low, likewise people with little or no talent have a shot as long as they are packaged correctly.

2:42 pm February 5, 2012

lollievox wrote:

I get it! This Lana Del Rey record came at the perfect time for me.... had been praying for inspiration & then came Lana Del rey...my dead mothers name was Lana & the album I heard came out in October the moth of mine and my mothers birthday. This is the first record I have loved in many years!!! Liz Phair is right on in her musings no matter how she puts it!
Lana Del rey s an ordinary girl who has reinvented herself & I am inspired to reinvent myself as well!!!!!
As long as she comes thru in the music Muse..... creativity, artists can be fiction as long as they move us, thats what t's all about right????

2:44 pm February 5, 2012

Lollievox wrote:

month..... I mean not moth lol
Oh Yeah & PS. Just because Video games didn't come off live doesn't mean it isn't a jewel of a recording artist.... She is perfect. She is the girl they love to hate but she's gona be a legend someday!

2:49 pm February 5, 2012

JimBeam wrote:

I'm guessing Liz wants us to forget her self-titled, highly commercialized pop album that came out in 2005. I can understand. I want to forget it too.

Exile in Guyville was the right album at the right time, in large part because Phair was a pretty girl doing grunge in the early 1990s. But she was "edgy" more for her sexually explicit lyrics more than her music. Otherwise, Guyville wasn't horribly innovative and not much different from similar acts at the same time.

3:17 pm February 5, 2012

glamcookie wrote:

@JimBeam: Spoken like a dude. Guyville was a HUGE deal to young feminists at the time, myself included. Lyrically especially - it was very innovative on that front. Musically, Phair isn't the most talented musician around (though her songwriting abilities on Guyville and Whip Smart were pretty impressive IMHO), but it's about the whole package and Guyville and Phair had it in spades.

I will agree, however, that post-Whip Smart Phair held no interest for me.

3:43 pm February 5, 2012

glitterbomb wrote:

the comments that follow such a well-written article are fine examples of the inability of mainstream and underground culture to comprehend such an establishment with jacked-up gender issues. unless you know the business ya'll, keep thumbing through pitchfork for your lame criticism and so-called "taste."

phair is ultimately an important figure in music history regardless of her work post-Guyville, post-Whip Smart, post-Whatever. The great thing about Liz Phair is that she's never taken herself as seriously as media has portrayed her... hell, she's just as riot grrrl as kathleen hanna or poly styrene or patti smith or delia derbyshire.

4:31 pm February 5, 2012

Kevin wrote:

The question is why is Lana Del Rey succeeding where Lizzie Grant and Elizabeth Grant before her failed? Is it because the packaging (including the enhanced lips) is better?

5:38 pm February 5, 2012

Anonymous wrote:

Who is 'FM'? Your comment makes some great points! Do you blog / write anywhere?

5:45 pm February 5, 2012

Edward wrote:

I don't hate Del Rey and I don't like the idea that if I find any musician inauthentic I should be some kind of "phobe" or sexist. Liz Phair is cool. I’m not sure about Del Rey.

6:21 pm February 5, 2012

jeano wrote:

@Kevin maybe she got better at music? That sometimes happens when people get more practice.

6:23 pm February 5, 2012

mary cigarettes wrote:

the most interesting thing there was liz phair's finely tuned jealousy.

6:41 pm February 5, 2012

ChristeeK wrote:

I love this post Liz Phair. This made me laugh, think and share it with all my friends...You made some really good points, particularly this one:
Can you picture our society, “one nation under The Goddess, indivisible… etc.?” If the president was always a woman and all the senators, judges and key business leaders were all female? Picture being forced to talk endlessly about your feelings and listen and care when what you needed was just to get something done. Doesn’t that sound sh–ty? Tiresome? Oppressive?

Yeah, I know the feeling.

This was all really well written. You made your point concisely with out boring the reader and you made some really well written statements that like me, most people are re-posting all over the internet.

7:27 pm February 5, 2012

ChristeeK wrote:

DS, whoever you are, your kicking ass on this forum and also making some good points.

These people too: MoonChild, Mike Conley, Bylow Selhai and M in particular, I love your poignant and honest commentary.

Do most of you haters realize you sound like oppressive fascists? If you don't understand what that means there are plenty of online dictionaries to help you with it. Controlling, condemning and labeling opinions are rampant in our society, why aren't people complaining about that? And also, just because you have liberal points of view, doesn't make you open minded or better than everyone else. You are not special and you have no right to put anyone other than yourselves in a box! What gives you the right to think your opinion is gold? Telling other people what they should or shouldn't do tells me you think your special...that ideology would be your illusion. You know what would make you special??? If you were the only person alive, But your not, your apart of 3.6 billion other people. Please open your minds to that reality and try not to freak out about it. It's not like LDR is out killing innocent children and nobody said you had to like her.

oh and also, to the Ken Green person, I'm so glad you know exactly how you feel...try learning how other people feel now.

8:17 pm February 5, 2012

Erica Rivera wrote:

More power to you, Ms. Phair. Would've been even better had your expletives not been censored. The only thing the world fears more than a sexually expressive woman is an angry one.

There are a lot of "if"s in that "consider our society" paragraph. Hey, Liz, if we had some eggs we could have ham and eggs, if we had some ham. Sheesh. You typed a lot to say so little. I like most of your music, but as far as commentator goes on this one, RS was right. You could have summed it up in a quote.

9:49 pm February 5, 2012

A.J. wrote:

What a ridiculous, backwards feminist rant... And what is this "profound silence that has resounded throughout history..." ??
Women are the biggest names in pop music, and have been for quite some time. So quit pointing fingers, and feeling sorry for yourself.
If no one buys your music, it's because it's either not relevant, or not very good.
btw, I happen to like LDR a lot.

10:03 pm February 5, 2012

Christopher wrote:

The next Shia twain! "......all the more so because she’s not overwhelmingly talented." What! Define talented.
Her real talent is in her writing. Which, she wrote when she was 15? Hmmm. Her image from her older videos are the same as it is now, but not Jesica Rabit polished up like now. I watched her videos over and over. I notice, there are alot of women on YouTube imitating here; and they are all talented! i am amused.

10:23 pm February 5, 2012

shayna wrote:

i really really love lana del ray. so what if her lips are fake, her name is changed, and she had a diff genre a while ago. sometime we need to reinvent ourselves. i think her voice is seductive, like whiskey and honey. she's wonderful.

10:49 pm February 5, 2012

Xander956 wrote:

With "friends" like this, Lana Del Rey doesn't need any enemies.

What a self-absorbed, agenda-laden statement this was. Talk about backhanded compliments! This is the kind of writing that can best be described as "thoughtless."

11:56 pm February 5, 2012

drunkenpixie wrote:

To say that people are angry that she is reinventing herself is ridiculous, artists reinvent themselves all the time .That being said, reinventing yourself is fine, but not having any talent is her actual problem.

12:23 am February 6, 2012

Julie wrote:

Liz, you forgot to wear your watch so I"m about to tell you what f-ing time it is. I assure you this is not any kind of "fear the goddess" psycho babble issue. Lana Del Rey blows chunks. The most thinly veiled, uber-marketed "artist" to hit the scene since balloon boy. The entire spin is beyond offensive, it's laughable.

12:29 am February 6, 2012

Soledad wrote:

“one nation under The Goddess, indivisible… etc.?” If the president was always a woman and all the senators, judges and key business leaders were all female? Picture being forced to talk endlessly about your feelings and listen and care when what you needed was just to get something done. Doesn’t that sound sh–ty? Tiresome? Oppressive?"

Love. Unfortunately, I think the people reading will focus solely on LDR and completely overlook or ignore this.

12:57 am February 6, 2012

Lance Phillips wrote:

Liz,I respect your talent and your opinion,but all the feminist talk is merely obfuscation.Why DON'T I like Lana Del Rey? For all the reasons I DID like your recordings,which were sincere songs written from the heart about serious topics and you didn't really give a rats ass whether you got rich,famous or neither,She,conversely, is the creation not of Lana Del Rey but promoters,backers and fat cat record Company executives looking to market a product,NOT art or a viewpoint.And that PRODUCT is named Lana Del Rey and it's ALL about fame.fortune and profits.Quite frankly my opinion of you has diminished by your so completely missing the real point behind this creation known as "Lana Del Rey"!

1:43 am February 6, 2012

John Hedley wrote:

Liz, you fail to make one distiction. When Exile came out you had some backing from Matador but nothing like the A&R blitzkrieg that LDR has received. I won't automatically refuse to buy into something just because it's packaged and sold to me. However the more deftly massaged the product, the more it really has to shine artistically. You did not; you were raw and were never presented any other way (right down to the jewel case liner photos/artwork). When I get homesick for Chicago I listen to Exile (and the Bad Examples and Freddy Jones Band). I don't know where LDR is from, but I'm betting nobody from there will ever say something similar. Voices shoud be heard but if they don't resonate are they still worthy?

BTW: This is the first time I've seen that Never Said video- you got stage presence to spare (in fact I'm kicking myself now for bagging that NYE show you did at Metro).

2:07 am February 6, 2012

L. Friedman wrote:

Madonna was a talentless, overproduced joke for many years, now people call her a veteran who's had the strength to reinvent herself many times and put her on the SuperBowl. She hasn't changed. Talented or no, Lana Del Rey should just keep on making waves and making money! I also bought her whole album on iTunes, only the 3rd time I've done that-and even at her most annoying she grows on you. Why should others get to decide what shape her intelligence and power take?

2:52 am February 6, 2012

gz wrote:

There's nothing scary about Lana Del Ray at all; she's doing what many women (though not enough) have done for decades. I admire her as I have done those women who preceded her - Liz Phair, Madonna, Chrissie Hynde, et al - and it matters not what I think of their music, it matters that they are doing it on their own terms. That we should be striving toward a post-gender society is more important; that we should relate to each other as fellow HUMANS in all aspects of life is more relevant. Please read this blog for a wonderfully written piece on the subject: http://bit.ly/xWPbm3

5:03 am February 6, 2012

Stephanie wrote:

If I heard this in the audience, I'd be giving a standing ovation right now.

5:17 am February 6, 2012

Carl wrote:

Really? You mean you put out all those records in the 90s so a spoiled brat can get fake lips and use her body to force her boring, derivative music on the public through surreptitious means? I like Mad Men too, but it's a TV show not a way of life. There is so much payola and big PR marketing money tied up into this woman, it is a shame. Flying her around the world to avoid actual questions? C'mon, I think people are smarter than that Liz and it's a shame you're using feminism as an excuse for big companies forcing their will upon others. LDR should have done what you and everyone else in music did for centuries- earn their success from practice and concerts, not using their Dad to buy them good management and PR.

6:01 am February 6, 2012

Anonymous wrote:

I love Lana Del Rey. Listening to her right now. Used to listen to Liz. As a guy who loves Jennifer Charles, I would say Liz comes across as a misandrist. This is the West. Women can and do what ever they want. Often at the detriment of men.

6:02 am February 6, 2012

to carl wrote:

you can suck it, carl. i heard LDR's album, and it's well done and has a lot conveyed emotion. apparently, she wrote most of it too.

7:06 am February 6, 2012

Ken wrote:

I think Liz Phair is mostly right. And also that there are interesting parallels between the two singers' reception. I'm a guy musician, and Lana Del Rey is dead on that guys control and steal from women in music all the time. This is changing fast in the indie world, esp. In Canada. But in the mainstream press and fan base, women are supposed to follow certain scripts, and deviation is pounced on unthinkingly. It's all about sex and control, which is why the reactions are so visceral and out of proportion. The US is so culturally confused - depraved but conservative - that there is little chance of a different climate quickly. Over time, our influence is waning over pop culture. I never listen to regular radio anymore, only CBC podcasts and other "foreign" sources. Only three things seem to make it - technopop fembots, thin hip-hop, and worn out classic rock echoes. Yawn. I don't care about "authenticity," that's a ridiculous and disingenuous standard (Bob Dylan, anyone?). I just look for creativity and originality and craft. I think LDR clearly has work to do, but I don't believe craft has much to do with the hate.

7:09 am February 6, 2012

Mei wrote:

@whatever your name is....Liz Phair was the second coming. Lana del Rey is our savior!

7:36 am February 6, 2012

ok wrote:

Carl - your comment clearly just shows how ignorant you are. You're trying to say that LDR hasn't earned her success? Firstly, who are you to judge if someone has earned success, what does that even mean? And secondly, she was giging around the New York/Brooklyn circuit for years, showing clearly how little you know about her yet how quick you are to judge. She was on the brink of giving up her dream until she got a lucky break, she's a young woman invigorating the music scene, she's beautiful yet smart - surely we should be celebrating this? And as a current and former managers have said: the record company has little control over her, it's her own vision. Plus, do some research, her dad made some minor success later in life, he has never bankrolled her at any stage in her music career, a number of managers/label workers have said this.

8:40 am February 6, 2012

Anonymous wrote:

During the 90s there were many artists with a similar sound to this artist. Mazzy Starr, PJ Harvey...with a melancholic sound that does make you think, send you to a place whether geographically or metaphorically. I like it. Is she the most talented? does she have to be? but what points are missing is that mainstream culture rarely accepts EXPERIMENTING. In a time when we have gone more backwards then forwards in pop culture in terms of how women can be viewed (seems like only in one way- hot with a country or pop bent)...we have no room at the INN for this very interesting artist.

9:39 am February 6, 2012

Anonymous wrote:

LIz, one thing:

Chip Clips and butter

10:27 am February 6, 2012

MA$K wrote:

The other day someone asked me to name any active, strictly American, female, non-commercial, pop/rock musician, singer songwriters that I could think of - and I was totally stumped. I think it's been hard for Lana Del Rey because there isn't exactly a strong context or cutout for this kind of thing in the American pop culture landscape. Much respect to Liz Phair.

10:42 am February 6, 2012

so anonymous wrote:

love love love you Liz Phair! I wish I had caught you at the 930 Club in 08.
Exile in Guyville is my favorite album of all time. Listening to it is like hearing someone put my diary to music. It's both angst-filled and fun, reflective and in-the-moment. It makes want to flaunt my chick-ness. Hope to catch some new work from Liz soon . . . and now I may even give LDR a try.

10:57 am February 6, 2012

Anonymous wrote:

Who cares. What does feminism have to do with how popular she is? Plus, if you're putting yourself in the spotlight, you have to suffer the slings and arrows. Actually, the kicker was when LDR bombed on SNL. If you don't have the chops, there's no hype machine big enough to save you.

10:58 am February 6, 2012

Bale wrote:

Sorry, still sounds like bland music to me.
This article has more passion than her music.

11:17 am February 6, 2012

DJ Psychomike wrote:

Who says pop music can't be dark or edgy? Anyone ever hear of Marlene Dietrich or Edith Piaf? If Lana had not been off on SNL she would have been like the 100's of bands who play and are not mentioned Monday by press or public. Now everyone is talking about her comeback on Letterman! The real story here is why the public is ignoring the critics. Her single hit number 1 on iTunes the day after her SNL appearance, her album hit number 1 in 15 countries within hours of release. The rock critics isolated themselves from the public when they spent years ignoring the DJ scene, which is on the verge of overtaking hiphop and rock. One critic wrote "What's a Skrillex?" after his Grammy nomination for best new artist. Skrillex had just played in Chicago in front of 10,000 people. Rock music is facing its toughest challenge since before the British Invasion in 1965. Companies are dropping CD's to download, That means people will pick 1 song and move on. That means huge cuts in revenue, less to zero tour support money, an almost impossible task to get known. And the critics are going down with the ship. Wise editors, should fire those who don't get it. BTW- just off her single there are now hundreds of dubstep, trance and remix versions of her songs. The DJ culture embraces her. She is going to do fine.

11:20 am February 6, 2012

Kim wrote:

Liz, much respect to you, you're the real deal. LDR is not and no amount of feminist bull will negate that point. Lana del Ray is contrived and packaged with Daddy's blessing. As a woman that pisses me off.

everything this women has to say is golden because when liz fair speaks out on something you and i should listen. Yes being a guy i fully stand by a women that sounds a little different i mean look at females like madonna, lady gaga,they make statements for a living the videos on youtube and the performanceon Saturday Nite Live was phenomonal. If this is what you are beefing at listen to britney spears new album and you will know what kind of music we have lately. To me she sounds like an old time singer that you never new was there not this sugar pop/rap crap we call edible music. If she played in a crouded venue before the opening act i would buy her album right then and there but because corporate america wants the next american idol wannabe flavor of the month launched she has to take a back seat. Why? i will tell you why there is no ingenuity on hollywood anymore. liz fair you rock i love ya!!! keep up the fight and as far as lana delrey is concerned keep making music you have a bright future ahead of you. You held me spellbound by your performance and hope that you go on your real soon so i hope to see ya out there someday.

11:54 am February 6, 2012

Lana Del Ray uses disruptive tech to win big wrote:

Using disruptive technologies to promote her music...this is exactly what everyone should be doing! Screw the critics and all the stupid so-called "authentic" bands out there. More power to Lana Del Ray!

12:03 pm February 6, 2012

heheee wrote:

I'm sorry, Liz, I adore you, but have you actually listened to what she sings about? It is the complete opposite of a "woman wanting and taking like a man." Lana del Rey defines herself as completely dependent on a male counterpart in her lyrics. That's why people stopped liking her. She really is basically a female Frank Miller.. when video games came out it was her Sin City. Everyone was like "This is cool. So ironic. She can't be serious about what she's saying... by becoming this vulnerable Nancy Sinatra type, she's actually criticiszing stereotypes!" but then the rest of Born to Die was revealed and everybody realized... fck.. this chick is, really just like Frank Miller, absolutely serious about her sht. And that has been her problem ever since. Certainly, there's a ton of sexism involved here... but it's not just your average internet user and music consumer.... it's just as much the record companies exploiting a young woman who really just wants to sing and be famous... without realizing what she's gotten herself into. Do I think LDR deserves all the hatred aimed at her? Probably not... but it's exactly what her record company was hoping for. She's not a heroine. She's made herself a victim... she herself. And I don't think that that's a woman that in any way deserves to be in that position to be heard while so many women who actually have something to say aren't.

12:17 pm February 6, 2012

Jack J Cambest wrote:

Luv ya Liz - and I agree with you completely. Lana Del Ray is an artist - a soulful, beautiful, courageous, strong female artist. And that scares the old boys. I love her sound and hope she sells millions and makes millions - she deserves it. BTW Liz, you can have my HWC anytime! LOL!

12:23 pm February 6, 2012

swiss wrote:

I'm a woman, have been a Liz Phair fan, and reading this article feel sorry for Liz Phair because she's so stridently self-important it's hard she actually has confidence the confidence and power she claims jumping up and down that she has. Chill out, Liz. Or get an editor. There are little clues in what you write that you feel impotent and angry and powerless---a bit of editing (and whatever else you need to do personally) would get your point across a lot more lucidly. As is, you sound like a girl on the verge of angry tears trying to lead a parade of some sort.

12:28 pm February 6, 2012

swiss wrote:

Well, that's karma for you--I criticize someone for needing an editor and hit Post before editing--ha! This is what I meant to say above. I’m a woman, have been a Liz Phair fan, and reading this article feel sorry for Liz Phair because she’s so stridently self-important it’s hard to believe she actually has the confidence and power she claims, jumping up and down, that she has. Chill out, Liz. Or get an editor. There are little clues in what you write indicating how impotent and angry and powerless you feel—a bit of editing (and whatever else you need to do personally) would get your point across a lot more lucidly. As is, you sound like a girl on the verge of angry tears trying to lead a parade of some sort. Really--you've got some important things to say, but it's hard to hear you.

12:32 pm February 6, 2012

GA wrote:

I don't hear anyone dissing her because she changed her name and whatnot. I ONLY hear about her being dissed cause she sucked on live TV. That's it. Move along kids, there's nothing to see here.

1:38 pm February 6, 2012

K2K wrote:

Whats with these women and their inferiority complexes? Just be happy in ur own skin. Man or woman, we are. Just be who u are and try to be happy in this life. It's way too short to be a whiner!!!

1:51 pm February 6, 2012

Anonymous wrote:

Let me break it down for you: she’s writing herself into existence. She’s giving herself a part to play because, God knows, no one else will and she wants to matter in this life."

Any artist "writes themself into existence." Plenty have also adopted stage personas. The issue here is if that role comes across as authentic, whether the art is credible, whether the PERFORMANCE is credible, and if the art is of merit. The outrage against Rey is that she comes across as fake. To claim that it's the based on her gender is nonsense. Lady Gaga underwent a transformation, but her songwriting, performance etc excels. Lana Del Rey is no different than most artsits but everything about her here is transparent. The surgeries, the music, etc.

To say the outrage is based on gender is uniformed. It's outrage based on a poor product.

2:13 pm February 6, 2012

Rock Cousteau wrote:

Very pleased to see Liz Phair speaking on the subject. Don't necessarily agree with what she's saying, but it's her opinion. Remember, she was asked for her opinion and as much as everyone wants to "break down" her statement into little pieces, it's HER OPINION. We have been fans of Liz Phair for a long time and hearing her give her OPINION will not change how we feel about her music. She's a woman rock musician who may not have broken any glass ceilings, but she certainly had to work inside the building made of glass. Peace out!

2:14 pm February 6, 2012

that guy wrote:

This is trite, ridiculously-written, self-congratulatory hackery.

2:37 pm February 6, 2012

Liz Phair receives brown envelopes from A&R guys wrote:

I think Del Ray does the exact opposite. If anything she props ups the usual lusty female stereotpyes that are wheeled out by other pop artists to shift records. All Lana Del Rey is doing is dressing it up with hip clothing, producing and reference points for a different target market.

If Liz Phair actually listened to the tracks she'd see that Del Ray is detracting from the role of women in music. How she can even claim that she "scares the rock boys club" is absolutely beyond me.

2:39 pm February 6, 2012

Brian wrote:

I hear the uproar about Lana del Rey's horrible SNL gig, and when I watched it I was surprised that is was not terrible at all. Maybe dull, but it's a slow, brooding song. I've seen plenty of crappier SNL performances. At least she has a great song. I do think she got nailed because she's extremely beautiful. Beautiful people get judged more harshly (and praised more enthusiastically). That is a proven aspect of human nature. The "Indie" community is especially suspect of attractive women trying to be taken seriously. You're not allowed to care about your makeup. Liz Phair got reamed for being a pretty rich girl trying to pass as "alternative". Plenty of people listened anyhow because her lyrics are sharp and songs are catchy, but she was a guilty pleasure. I don't agree with every conclusion Liz Phair has drawn -- there have been important women making music on their own terms for centuries. But I do agree that the Lana del Rey backlash is not about her music. She's too beautiful to be taken seriously by indie rock dudes.

3:02 pm February 6, 2012

Mookslat wrote:

This article is as poorly written as Liz Phair's last few albums.

3:52 pm February 6, 2012

nondescript male wrote:

I think a woman should be and do whatever she wants. Having said that, after reading this piece I guess I still don't understand feminism.

4:58 pm February 6, 2012

Murphey wrote:

Every artist is free to take a stage name and make whatever music they want. I am also free to think it's unaffected, disengaging and dripping with stale pomp. I wonder if Phair desired to inspire those qualities with her music.

5:14 pm February 6, 2012

mmmhmmmm wrote:

up, up, up!

6:04 pm February 6, 2012

Jake wrote:

Although her last few albums may have been less than pitch-perfect, this succinct analysis is not.

7:48 pm February 6, 2012

Agent_Torpor wrote:

Jake, it's about on par with her misguided attempt to latch onto the pop-styled Dr. Luke production sheen back in 2005. What's so groundbreaking about being a pawn starlet in some svengali-esque production schematic?

Oh Liz, do shut up already. It's not bad enough to have a ridiculously contrarian opinion for the sake of being contrarian, you're doing in some gag-inducing lunge for any remaining relevancy (at the expense of the current flavor of the month).

An adult conversation about feminism is not something the Internet is capable of having yet.

And people need to look up Ad Hominem on wikipedia!

8:11 pm February 6, 2012

Anonymous wrote:

what on earth is she talking about?

11:20 pm February 6, 2012

Pickles wrote:

I thought things like "manufacturing a phony image to sell yourself" and "having daddy purchase a career for you" were frowned upon in the feminist paradigm.

11:36 pm February 6, 2012

Fact wrote:

This isn't about scaring any boys' club. This is about Lana Del Rey being a lousy "singer" and people rightly dissing her for it. If she wasn't from a wealthy family, she would have been obsolete by now. But give the $ she has, she will somehow cling on and make it. End of.

12:01 am February 7, 2012

LizBo wrote:

This article is all about Liz, by Liz, and for Liz. Like a 20 minute drum solo. No fan likes it. None.

12:05 am February 7, 2012

The Truth wrote:

It's all about the songs, for all of us who are not jaded. Do her songs have good hooks and catchy melodies? If not, it sucks to listen to. At best, maybe influential, but unlistenable.

12:07 am February 7, 2012

Spinal Pap wrote:

Liz is on the "Where Are They Now?" list. Rehab? Somalia? Outer space?

12:32 am February 7, 2012

daisymorganillustrated.wordpress.com wrote:

I've yet to be able to get through a single Lana Del Rey song and her SNL performance was laughable at best. Why not support the legitimately talented female artists out there Liz? Here's some great examples of current female led or all female bands that actually deserve recognition and in no particular order: Widowspeak, I Break Horses, Zola Jesus, Wye Oak, Warpaint, Vivian Girls, Dum Dum Girls, Crystal Castles, Chelsea Wolf, Bat For Lashes, Fever Ray, Glasser, No Joy, Puro Instinct, Screaming Females, Ponytail, Braids, Wild Flag, and St. Vincent. Obviously, I'm leaving a bunch off, but my point is simple; there are plenty of talented, creative women out there that better represent what musicians (male or female) are capable of and most of them seem to be overlooked. It's disheartening.

1:51 am February 7, 2012

Joshua wrote:

Haters always hate. The same concept created satan. Keep bitching about her. Watch her get famous. Right in front if your judgmental eyes. She is gorgeous. And moderately talented. THIS IS THE STANDARD OF EVERY POP STAR. if you can do it better, then do it. I don't see Lana del Rey on here commenting about this bad blog.

2:30 am February 7, 2012

Derek C wrote:

I hope this article is a poorly-written joke, and not a serious piece. Either way, it's terrible, although hopefully not terrible enough to actually suggest we should bother paying attention to Lana Del Rey because she's female.

8:46 am February 7, 2012

Marshall wrote:

I personally don't see the problem in calling a spade a spade. Lana del Ray has a mediocre voice, wrote a bunch of mediocre songs, and then turned it all into a mediocre record. What's the controversy here?

10:10 am February 7, 2012

Cruster wrote:

Jesus, STFU. Way to spin it back around to yourself in an attempt to make everyone think that you are relevant. Lana del Rey is a hack outsider trying to buy her way in with daddy's money - there's not a shred of authenticity, and it doesn't matter what the hell plumbing she's got in her pants...of course you would identify with her, because you've been trying to do the same thing the past few years. I will now put on "Whitechocolatespaceegg" and shed a tear for the good times. Liz Phair is dead.

1:23 pm February 7, 2012

Dude4MusiC wrote:

TEAM LANA!

5:58 pm February 7, 2012

ami wrote:

good stuff !

5:59 pm February 7, 2012

ami wrote:

wow, haters are such sad losers.

6:33 pm February 7, 2012

Drew wrote:

Marshall wrote:

"I personally don’t see the problem in calling a spade a spade. Lana del Ray has a mediocre voice, wrote a bunch of mediocre songs, and then turned it all into a mediocre record. What’s the controversy here?"

Pretty much sums it up.

8:39 pm February 7, 2012

Purplegenie wrote:

If Liz Phair just wants to be heard, and according to her music can be ugly or devoid of talent, why did she find it necessary to use autotune on her trademark tuneless voice on her last album? She and Del Rey are the exact same kind of pompous.

11:05 pm February 7, 2012

pam in oz wrote:

i find it interesting that liz phair writes lana del rey is 'wanting and taking like a man', because from what i see of del rey she does the opposite, playing the doe eyed ingenue, the man-obeying little girl. she's welcome to do that, of course, but it doesn't strike me as particularly pro-woman.

11:56 pm February 7, 2012

zerosum wrote:

how about, that song sucks, and there is no reason to pay her to find out that the rest of the album also sucks. total gimmick, and everyone bought into it. Its the same thing as though douches being on stage with madonna.

5:54 am February 8, 2012

xapi wrote:

let's not forget she didn't reinvent herself, she was reinvented by marketing people.

11:53 am February 8, 2012

scottRUCH wrote:

"...Maybe all the more so because she’s not overwhelmingly talented." For Lana Del Rey, it is important to remember that some of us *are* overwhelmed. She has one of the most generous youtube presences (work as well as interviews) of any artist I know from which to draw your own conclusions. As an example, I'll swear she's channelling dead people (that never existed!!) from the 50s and 60s in her beautiful Yayo. Her earlier stuff (hopefully, re-released this summer) is not a radical change from her current stuff. Maybe she's an acquired taste or appeals only to some people (no sin there, for an artist). Maybe the "market construct" criticism follows from her (seemingly) toxic anti-feminist lyrics. I agree with Liz Phair that she is writing herself, and/or there is no way a group of hairy-armed, cigar-chomping, corporate think-tankers could have gotten this one so right!

9:30 pm February 8, 2012

wahwahwah wrote:

I think this level of vitriol only should be expressed at people who really deserve it. mass murderers, puppy killers, baby stealers, the like. how can people gather up so much hate over an artist, someone who got lucky and is becoming successful? liz phair is jealous? pfft. if you care this much, you have taken it personally. which is weird. i like music, but am not going to roll my eyes when people have bad taste. to each her own. this internet age that allows awful people to become critics makes me die a little.

10:26 pm February 8, 2012

Garth wrote:

Hmmm, I lost all respect for Liz Phair after reading this. For a has-been indie rocker she seems to have major delusions of grandeur about her importance in the history of music and this article is more of an incohesive rant than feminist journalism.

11:46 pm February 8, 2012

Mark Mezadourian wrote:

Great insights, Liz.

Some folks seem to have missed Liz's main point - to be heard at all is an accomplishment. In that, Lana Del Ray has succeeded.

7:21 pm February 9, 2012

Plastic Eyes wrote:

Lana Del Ray obviously gets it... she just got caught. So many artists YOU may love are a product or a facade. Just shut up and listen to the music. If it moves you, someone has done their job. If it makes you want to vomit, shut it off.

4:44 am February 10, 2012

Linda Bertrand wrote:

I love Del Ray's music, though she really needs some kicking on the ass of Lady Gaga, I believe that she will make it.

When the artist is Liz Phair, Lucinda Williams, Adele, or Lady Gaga, then, yes, they should be heard. Pop music can be good or bad, but it should never be boring. Video Games is just boring.

12:04 am February 12, 2012

Alexandra wrote:

I think Liz brings up some good points, particularly the "wanting and taking" part. There are countless male fronted indie bands that are boring and untalented as ****, with atrocious, self-indulgent &/or simply lame lyrics about "mittens in the snow." (really???) Bands with no sense of melody or composition and root note rutter bassists. Pretentious, overly intellectual, hipster clones. And because they are not top 40 and someone paid to get their song on a hip magazine's "best of the year sampler," the indie kids proclaim them brilliant - conforming to each other just as much as pop radio. These bands formed from normal, non-prodigal kids, with less than certainly less than perfect vocal training are allowed to prove themselves over time and find success the grassroots way, make mistakes - but According to them, Lana Del Rey should not be afforded this opportunity. Why? Is it because pretty faces and catchy melodies scare those who don't have one? Or can't write them? Or is it because in interviews Lana Del Ray comes off as sweet, well-meaning, but slightly clueless? Because she doesn't flaunt a rock hard, sometimes cold or intellectual exterior that women in music have been forced to adopt in order to survive in music and be respected? There seem to be countless reasons. They aren't ALL about gender, or daddy's money, or record labels either. I think people are afraid that if Lana Del Rey infiltrates more than top 40 radio, the hipsters will lose their credibility and the bland, amelodic, suburban-bred melodrama will fade into obscurity. And "worse yet," force everyone to acknowledge humanity and soul in music again, which has become scattered so sparsely throughout the genres for the last 16 years. Lana Del Rey is not all THAT different from other artists of today, but different ENOUGH that I think it opened a door to the possibility of a very badly needed change, in a dry, digital, rather antisocial music world.

4:58 pm February 12, 2012

Gerunds wrote:

Neither of them has done anything musically fantastic, unless you consider elevator music to be the pièce de résistance of the last 20 years. Really annoying, fairly whiny, rich white girl elevator music. In Liz's own words, "Maybe [we like Lana] all the more so because she’s not overwhelmingly talented..." - they're both just average. They were both pushed aside on their "first tries', and both had to reinvent themselves and be molded by record labels in order to succeed - their mediocracy as musicians doesn't seem to matter though, because when you have money, resources, and white societal privilege, anything is possible (ever heard of Rebecca Black...?).

Lana and Liz are first world problems. They're the 1% that have time and money to waste on producing poorly written unintelligible pop anthems that do little for society besides giving teenage hipsters something to listen to and fantasize about while chugging cans of PBR.

It's so saddening to see mediocrity succeed when there are so many talented and underrated musicians out there, if this is where the future of music is heading then we need a total overhaul.

5:32 pm February 12, 2012

Bandwagonette wrote:

Do you seriously think this woman is empowering? She's a 26-year-old woman who compares herself to Lolita constantly through out her album and talks in a sexy-baby voice on some of her tracks. Every song on that album is about a dude. I don't really think she's breaking down any barriers here.

5:38 pm February 13, 2012

The Dudeness wrote:

Who the hell is Lana Del Rey and where can I see her boobs on the internet?

12:51 pm February 18, 2012

rick wrote:

I don't know if Lana del Rey is the devil incarnate or the savior of music. I do know that her claim to be the "gangsta Nancy Sinatra" is pure nonsense. Everyone knows that Nancy Sinatra is the gangsta Nancy Sinatra. As for Liz Phair, this all just seems to be an opportunity for Liz to remind people how influential she is. And if you don't believe her, she'll be glad to tell you again, and again, and again. And if you still don't believe her, she'll threaten to record another rap song. That definitely will bring any doubters in line.

7:26 pm February 19, 2012

feminist man wrote:

Liz Phair is right on. Women have a right to be sexual if they want. I wonder if Lana Del Rey's being sexual is what Brian Williams, a Catholic, objected to. I thought that Lana appeared nervous on SNL, but that her performance was good. It's understandable to be nervous when your career is taking off and you are on live network television "Video Games" is a stunning song. To ruin it, Lana would have had to collapse into the orchestra pit, a la Hank Williams.
Lana Del Rey's CD "Born to Die" is really good. Several tracks are terrific.
I wish Lana the best, and I wish all the folks out there who don't like women expressing their sexuality would go say the rosary or watch re-runs of "Mass for Shut-ins."

10:39 pm February 20, 2012

Britt wrote:

Gerunds I bet you like freak folk. Ariel Pink rules!

7:03 am February 22, 2012

AtomEve wrote:

This is just her trying to get some publicity. Other riot grrl-era musicians are getting attention right now and she's not. The popularity of Portlandia, and the Republican anti-woman agenda is awakening interest in the riot-grrl music of yesteryear and Ms. Phair is desperate to cash Only, she isn't Carrie Brownstein or Kathleen Hanna or even close, So he's latching onto Lana Del Rey, girl du jour. I doubt Liz has even bothered to listen to any of Lana Del Rey's "music" yet.

But she got one part right:

"Lana Del Rey really needs to duke it out with M.I.A. and Lady Gaga and Kim Gordon."

I understand enough to know I'd pay to see that! Those actual artists blow the puff of fluff play-acting "artist" out of the water. Hopefully she makes like Ophelia once she's in it.. Lana Del Rey could have the voice of an angel (but sadly doesn't) and it wouldn't matter because her lyrics are BAD. I mean "poetry of an 8th-grade C-student" level of BAD. Easily some of the most unmoving, uninspiring vapid crap to come out of one claptrap in years. (Aside from the Republican debates.)

Lana and Liz can both go back to whatever vacuum they were existing in. We don't need any more dumb voices regardless of gender. We are full up.

4:29 am August 14, 2012

Alexandra wrote:

It has been confirmed by Lana that she is actually uncomfortable infront of cameras and thats what makes her nervous in interviews and taped shows. She is actually very green still, much like Avril Lavigne was when she got popular coming from country roots to "punk" pop diva... Either way, she'll get better with it in time or she won't. I like her, I enjoy her vibe, flow, swagger and the sort.

4:43 am August 14, 2012

Alexandra wrote:

On a second note, you people that actually hate her for her appearance and lyrical content probably like alot of rap/hip-hop that is just as much similar in content as Lana's.

12:57 pm August 30, 2012

Ed wrote:

After reading a majority of these comments I have a headache. All I want to say is Liz please go back on tour and come to New York.

6:33 pm October 24, 2012

Lizaholic wrote:

In 20 years will people be talking about Born to Die in the way they're talking about Exile in Guyville - still?
No. In 20 years, they're still going to be talking about Liz Phair and Exile in Guyville. LOL. Because LP made a phenomenal, transcendental, "of an era", mainstream, indie, no-stream record. Timeless. Lana is cool and she made a good record. There's a big difference!

8:15 pm January 26, 2013

KTM300 RIDER wrote:

LIKE'EM BOTH. WOULD PAY TO SEE THEM LIVE ANY TIME!

7:21 pm April 23, 2013

John David Stutts wrote:

"You see, Lana Del Rey is exactly what I was hoping to inspire when I took on the male rock establishment almost twenty years ago with my debut record, “Exile In Guyville.”"

Sure it was rummy.

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