Wait... So... The Universe is an actual living intelligent entity? It was not created by humans nor did it accidentally evolve because of humans... In-fact IT created HUMANS? So effectively it is both an Alien and God? Does that not mean that in one short scene Red Dwarf just abandoned two of the 28 year-long principles it's always ran on?

Overall this is shaping up to being a really impressive season. And I feel that quite a few of these episodes (including the latest) are going to stand up well to the test of time.

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Couldn't agree more. Whilst not devoid of flaws, I feel this series has ironed out a lot of what was wrong with Series X. The overacting, the cast struggling to really embody their characters, the rehashing of old scenes, the overemphasis on laddish humour: All of those things are either absent, or greatly reduced in this Series. This is the first series, as a whole, where I truly feel I'm watching proper Dwarf since Series VI. A true return to form!

I think the way Lister takes a beer is a joke that fell flat where the narrative was pointing out how working class and uncultured he is compared to the others. I suppose it would have been the same if Cat and Rimmer had caviar and Lister picked up a burger or kebab.

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The joke might have worked better (or even been picked up on) if Lister hadn't spent the previous minute complimenting the bruchetta he found so "yum".
Is this really the man who once thought that eating pasta was for sick people?

A better question, is this really the same man who was cutting his toenails with a pair of hedge trimmers just a few scenes earlier?

An even better question: is there anybody who actually found the hedge trimmer thing funny as opposed to it being utterly ridiculous, impossible (unlike plucking one's nostril hairs with a pair of cooking tongs) and a terrible start to the episode in general?

I think the way Lister takes a beer is a joke that fell flat where the narrative was pointing out how working class and uncultured he is compared to the others. I suppose it would have been the same if Cat and Rimmer had caviar and Lister picked up a burger or kebab.

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The joke might have worked better (or even been picked up on) if Lister hadn't spent the previous minute complimenting the bruchetta he found so "yum".
Is this really the man who once thought that eating pasta was for sick people?

A better question, is this really the same man who was cutting his toenails with a pair of hedge trimmers just a few scenes earlier?

An even better question: is there anybody who actually found the hedge trimmer thing funny as opposed to it being utterly ridiculous, impossible (unlike plucking one's nostril hairs with a pair of cooking tongs) and a terrible start to the episode in general?

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Why don't you go and write a sit com of your own seeing as you seem to enjoy dissecting every non-event in a scene (insinuating you can do better)?

What is it with sci-fi fans and their endless not-picking over nothing.
"Oooo red dwarf is the wrong shape cry cry cry..."
"Ooooo why is he cutting his toes when in episode 43 he said...." snore

An even better question: is there anybody who actually found the hedge trimmer thing funny as opposed to it being utterly ridiculous, impossible (unlike plucking one's nostril hairs with a pair of cooking tongs) and a terrible start to the episode in general?

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Awwwww... Do you remember years and years ago when Lister used to bite his own toe-nails? He probably wouldn't be able to do that now without putting his back out. Seeing him going at them with a hedge-trimmer was unintentionally poignant in an episode themed around aging.

I think the way Lister takes a beer is a joke that fell flat where the narrative was pointing out how working class and uncultured he is compared to the others. I suppose it would have been the same if Cat and Rimmer had caviar and Lister picked up a burger or kebab.

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It may have been a joke, or just one of those character moments - Lister would be the type of bloke to drink beer over champagne. I didn't find it funny because similar things happen in real life.

Overall this episode was pretty solid. Probably the weakest in the series by a small margin but this is testament to how good this season has been.

I feel that they could have focused on building Kryten as a character more - the midlife crisis thing seemed to lack a lot of substance and the resolution with the Universe could have been done better.

I'm not sure Lister taking the beer was a joke, as such. The scenes on the Nova 3 are simply meant to show us how perfect Butler is. The presence of ice-cold lager on the table suggests that he's considerate as well as cultured.

I'm not sure Lister taking the beer was a joke, as such. The scenes on the Nova 3 are simply meant to show us how perfect Butler is. The presence of ice-cold lager on the table suggests that he's considerate as well as cultured.

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As this is now the tenth comment on the matter I think we should stop caring about the bloody beer joke!

I waited until earlier this evening to watch this for the first time with a friend. And have just watched it again on my own. I like it. I like it a lot!

It was nice to see another bunk scene at the beginning, albeit quite brief. I chuckled at Lister trying to cut his particularly troublesome ingrown toenail (for what it's worth I imagine he first tried to get it with his teeth before his attempts with scissors, a nail file and then eventually resorting to the hedge trimmers). Lister's line about the size of Kryten's hands made me laugh too, I wonder if that was a later line Doug added upon realising how bloated Kryten's hands are in this series?

I thought the midlife crisis theme was handled brilliantly throughout. I've always enjoyed seeing the different sides to Kryten and the way he struggles with our pesky human emotions since breaking his programming. It cracked me up seeing bouncing up and down and whizzing about in his Ferrari red shell suit like an embarrassing dad trying to be "down with the kids", and then slipping into full-on jealousy mode upon meeting Butler.

I have no idea who Dominic Coleman is or which other shows he's been in but I thought he was pitch-perfect as Butler. It would've been easy to play him as a particularly annoying character (which would've ruined Kryten's reaction to him) but, for me, despite perhaps being a tad self-important, he wasn't demeaning or particularly pompous, and as such I actually found him quite likeable. In a way I see him as Kryten's equivalent to Rimmer's Ace.

My reaction to Kryten in these kind of episodes seems to differ to that of some fans. For example I never found him annoying in series 7. In fact Beyond a Joke is one of my favourite episodes and I always loved whiny Kryten. Although it perhaps went on a bit too long and wore a little thin towards the end of the series; I think moderation is key to these emotionally-driven shifts in personality traits. Part of me finds it really funny seeing him that way but I also feel quite sorry for him. I mean, it's difficult enough dealing with such complex human emotions as a human, so I imagine that in some ways it must be much more difficult for Kryten given that he doesn't have the software to deal with such things.

And I felt the same during this episode, seeing his emotionally projective reactions and that lovable grumpy face never annoys me. Rather, it has a way of tickling my funny bone whilst simultaneously inducing my empathy mode (as is the case with Rimmer...sometimes).

It was nice to see another variety of GELF and I laughed muchly at Butler trying to teach Kyten to speak the dialect correctly, and the rest of them joining in, sounding like a bunch of sheep.

The space station looked beautiful and I loved everything about them speaking to "the universe". It was quite a bold move on Doug's part and I appreciate that he's not scared of trying new ideas like this.

As an aside I have a few half-thought-out theories about what "the universe" was or wasn't, but to expand upon them I may have to put together some rizzlas the length of ski bags One of said theories (which is somewhat inspired by a literalist interpretation of Buddhist mythology about imperfect "gods" with a small "g") is that the intelligent entity the Dwarfers spoke to is not really the universe but does genuinely believe itself to be, because it was amongst the first of it's kind. But I digress... Regardless of whether or not it's the genuine universe they spoke too, I liked it.

I thought it was a really nice touch to have Kryten unintentionally sending the universe into a full-on midlife crisis only to then help it feel better. And in turn making himself feel better and subsequently arriving at the understanding that we're essentially all in the same boat, even the universe in this case. I'm tempted here to go off on a tangent here but shall for now resist. But yeah, I found this episode genuinely quite touching and most enjoyable.

Overall it combined a number of great ideas. I would've perhaps liked to see a bit more of Butler and the Universe but it all fell into place quite nicely. And it's always pleasing to see some call backs to previous episodes without the ideas being rehashed. In my view Doug seems to be getting much better at maintaining just the right balance in this sense.

I give this episode 8/10. But it wouldn't be surprised if it's later hiked up to 9. I smegging love this series!

After three episodes I thought were pretty damn good, and Twentica which wasn't bad (and certainly ambitious, and achieved all its ambitions), Krysis felt like several steps back.

A lot of the story is well-meaning but the humour lets it down. Butler is probably the star of the episode but got on my nerves with the whole pronunciation scene. Some parts of the Universe scene were good (especially Rimmer not believing it) but I wasn't keen on the concept. Just reminded me of ERRA from Entangled. In fact, a lot of the episode feels like Entangled, which was one of my favourite episodes from X, but compared to how good XI has been, doesn't work.

This was nearly everything I feared from series XI - a weird blend between X and VII/VIII. It did have some moments, sure, but there was a lot that just felt forced.

Unfortunately I've got similar fears for next week's Can Of Worms, but since the episode blurbs were announced I always felt that sounded like the weakest episode. Hopefully I'm proven wrong and, whilst series XI has given us Krysis and Twentica (which I wasn't keen on, but plenty of others loved voth episodes), the other three so far have been excellent. Series XI can hold it's head high.

I think the way Lister takes a beer is a joke that fell flat where the narrative was pointing out how working class and uncultured he is compared to the others. I suppose it would have been the same if Cat and Rimmer had caviar and Lister picked up a burger or kebab.

Click to expand...

The joke might have worked better (or even been picked up on) if Lister hadn't spent the previous minute complimenting the bruchetta he found so "yum".
Is this really the man who once thought that eating pasta was for sick people?

A better question, is this really the same man who was cutting his toenails with a pair of hedge trimmers just a few scenes earlier?

An even better question: is there anybody who actually found the hedge trimmer thing funny as opposed to it being utterly ridiculous, impossible (unlike plucking one's nostril hairs with a pair of cooking tongs) and a terrible start to the episode in general?

Click to expand...

Why don't you go and write a sit com of your own seeing as you seem to enjoy dissecting every non-event in a scene (insinuating you can do better)?

What is it with sci-fi fans and their endless not-picking over nothing.
"Oooo red dwarf is the wrong shape cry cry cry..."
"Ooooo why is he cutting his toes when in episode 43 he said...." snore

JUST ENJOY THE SHOW AND STOP WHINGING

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Firstly, the "why don't you make your own?" argument is a fundamentally awful one.
If you were in a restaurant and your food arrived undercooked, imagine voicing a grievance only to be told by other patrons "well, why didn't you make your own?". It's an inane argument that suggests we should never be critical of anything we didn't personally create.

I've purchased a season pass for one of my favourite TV shows, I'm certainly allowed to criticise parts that I found underwhelming or poorly thought out (just as I have come on here to praise Give and Take as one of the best episodes ever).

You criticise Neil Old for not giving his full opinions yet your own review of an episode you clearly didn't enjoy is just as devoid of reason and contributes nothing to discussion. In fact, you've spent more time here criticising others for being critical than you have discussing the episode. Bravo.

To get back on topic, I didn't say that the toenail cutting thing annoyed me because of a continuity error. It made me sigh and shake my head because it was Series 8 style Lister engaging in cartoonish buffoonery and another example of the kind of formulaic "how to write a bunk scene" experiment that I was hoping Doug had left behind.

The truly great bunk scenes were quiet moments of pathos and philosophical musings or genuinely laugh out loud and cleverly told anecdotes.

Unfortunately at some point it became accepted wisdom that they were about ironing sneezes.What really surprises me is that Doug himself doesn't seem to recall what made them great and so we get garden sheers and Lister literally explaining the visual gag to us to guarantee that we understand how funny it is.

Yes, this annoyed me quite a bit and I don't need to go away and write my own sitcom in order to express that view.

I just think it needs some genuine darkness. Those darkly comical moments that made Series V such a joy - if you listen to the music and ambient sound effects Series V sounds like a horror movie at times. Those grim situations really worked brilliantly with the flippant characters.

The best comparison is perhaps Dumb and Dumber vs Dumb and Dumber To. The first one was set in a realistic, gritty world, the plot was straight out of a straight thriller, and Jim Carrey and Jeff Daniels get thrown in. Everything else is serious and competant and real EXCEPT those guys. In the sequel, however, the world around those two characters is now as stupid and as wacky as they are, other characters they meet are just as stupid as they are and it just falls apart.

I think that's a problem Red Dwarf still has, although nowhere near as pronounced or obvious. If you watch Series V it's got a real sinister, dark edge of the real world, and the universe has a real hostility toward them but they somehow bungle through it. The things they encounter are established as competant threats straight out of a serious sci-fi movie. It's lost that undertone of hopelessness and that black on white tonality. The closest it got was Give and Take which pinched a little from Quarantine and Back To Reality but again, was still played for goofiness. There's scenes in Inquisitor and Justice which are just pure action, peppered with quick gags, and they work spectacularly well. There seems to be a desire to pepper every scene with jokes but sometimes Red Dwarf was at its best when it held back a bit and let the darkness close in, then hit you with a bright spark of a joke. It's hard to put into words what is missing but it's definitely something to do with the world building and tone, both visually and musically.

It's like they're still digging for those rare essential elements they lost over the years and while they have found a few there's still a few left to dig up and plug back in.

My fear is that, ultimately, they have dug up what they can, and its a simple case of what's missing being in the sole possession of a certain Mr. Grant.

Another reason I love Give And Take, is it does somewhat return to the darker elements of Series V, and I actually mentioned in my first semi-review that I thought it would slot in nicely there. I think more screen time for Asclepius would have sealed that deal. The flow of the episode is also wonderful, and I think it is overall, Series I-VI standard. This series as a whole has gotten close to recapturing that magic, but not quite there yet. A very strong final episode though I think for me, will earn it a hallowed place amongst the first six Series, in terms of it's status in the Dwarf canon.

Another reason I love Give And Take, is it does somewhat return to the darker elements of Series V, and I actually mentioned in my first semi-review that I thought it would slot in nicely there. I think more screen time for Asclepius would have sealed that deal. The flow of the episode is also wonderful, and I think it is overall, Series I-VI standard. This series as a whole has gotten close to recapturing that magic, but not quite there yet. A very strong final episode though I think for me, will earn it a hallowed place amongst the first six Series, in terms of it's status in the Dwarf canon.

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Give and Take was phenomenal, worth the series being made alone to get one more 5ish episode like that again. In terms of tone I'd stack them up as follows.

Twentica - Series VI
Samsara - Series VII
Give and Take - Series V
Officer Rimmer - Series IV
Krysis - Series X
Can of Worms - ??

This one resonated with me as its a place I’ve been the last couple of years for one reason and another. My car is bright orange not red. It took a 2nd viewing to resonate properly as I nodded off part way through;combination of early 50s fatigue together with rum and Coke. Many moons ago I had an article published in the BTL about why I’d stayed so connected and engaged to the programme and that was I was 3 million light years from where I wanted to be and I saw may self to varying degrees in all the main characters including Holly. Kryten is the one I gave come to identify with most. The balance of Krysis was more weighted to sci fi but perhaps needed to be after Officer Rimmer was more comedy weighted. A very satisfying episode and those effects were just gorgeous.

Another reason I love Give And Take, is it does somewhat return to the darker elements of Series V, and I actually mentioned in my first semi-review that I thought it would slot in nicely there. I think more screen time for Asclepius would have sealed that deal. The flow of the episode is also wonderful, and I think it is overall, Series I-VI standard. This series as a whole has gotten close to recapturing that magic, but not quite there yet. A very strong final episode though I think for me, will earn it a hallowed place amongst the first six Series, in terms of it's status in the Dwarf canon.

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Give and Take was phenomenal, worth the series being made alone to get one more 5ish episode like that again. In terms of tone I'd stack them up as follows.

Twentica - Series VI
Samsara - Series VII
Give and Take - Series V
Officer Rimmer - Series IV
Krysis - Series X
Can of Worms - ??

I'd have settled for that combo before the series began.

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For me it has to be

Twentica - Series VI (Off ship location based)
Samsara - Series III (dialog driven but not ship based)
Give and Take - Series VI (baddie of the week)
Officer Rimmer - Series II (rimmer like he should be and ship based)
Krysis - Series VIII 2nd half (poor and too krytie tv-ish)