Before the Orange Bowl deal was inked with the ACC, could expect this would be coming. And can bet, the ACC extracted no concessions from ND per anything else. Of course the ACC & OB will have backup arrangements in years ND has what, 4 or more regular season loses? Anyone thinking the playoff & bowl situations will force ND to join a conference shall be disappointed. Why should ND join a conference, when the can continue to be the pampered queen; and the rendered pampering and enabling is not limited to the deliveries by the BE, B1G, PAC12, and NBC? The SEC didn't care as long as they got the playoff structure they sought, and the Big12 has been offering ND carrots to consider bringing in their non-fb sports.

The "have-not" conferences and schools will take a bigger shaft just to have a few more dollars thrown their way. The struggling "have-nots" will become even more popular for OOC games offered by the biggies in exchange for money. The system will not allow the lower tiers to get off dependency. Maybe that will make all happy. Same 'ole, just more ingrained.

I wonder if the ACC will advise Orange Bowl officials to resist inking the Irish on the counts of self-interest and weak revenue streams and product reputation. A mediocre Notre Dame team makes the bowl an instant dud. I think it's also in the ACC's best interest to keep Notre Dame away from it if just because the kind of fallout ND will stir in the Big East if it puts itself ahead of the footballers.

The moment ND inks that deal, the ACC, B1G, B12, and MWC will be getting calls asking about membership. Whoever doesn't get scooped up reforms the old C-USA under a different monnicker.

The ACC should insist that the Orange Bowl take the next highest ranked team not committed to the Rose or Champion Bowls. As a matter of fact, the ACC should do everything in their power to stop Notre Dame from getting that commitment and the OB would be wise to do just that and not commit to Notre Dame. The invite should go to the champion of the BE, CUSA or MWC, the #2 or 3 from the SEC, B1G, PAC, or Big 12, or to Notre Dame. Who ever is higher ranked. Without the commitment from the Orange Bowl, the Irish would have more reason to join a conference. A few years of not making the playoffs and not being in one of other 4 major bowls could just force Notre Dame's hand.

I'm thinkin' the ACC is actually COMPLETELY on board with this Notre Dame plan.

Of course it will only apply in years when the Orange Bowl does not host a semi-final (1/3 of the time or 4 years during the 2015-2026 period).And Notre Dame will have to be half-way decent in terms of ranking / some pre-established minimum number of wins.

But face it.... they travel well, and they bring more eyeballs than any old team that has an equivalnet W-L record.

Per Dennis Dodd's article the other day.... the way the new bowl line-up is shaking out, the participating conferneces will effectively control the media rights to various bowls.The commitment of the top conferences give them the desired control.

One of the next things we should see will be a bidding war for the Champs bowl between the Sugar, Fiesta, and Cotton.Then we know which 3 bowls (Rose, Orange, and physical location for Champs) are set to be part of the [don't call it BCS].I assume the other 3 bowls get into the program per some sort of bidding process ?

So when you step back and look at this, there are now 12 slots vs. the current 10 in the Orange, Sugar, Fiesta, Rose, NCG.2 new slots have been added. It will be interesting to see if any are non-affiliated with the "Big 5" (to accomodate a top 12 BE / MWC / CUSA / MAC ? Sun-Belt (cough !) team).I suppose that Notre Dame slot in the Orange Bowl would be such a slot in years when the Orange Bowl is not a semi-final and ND stinks.

I'm thinkin' the ACC is actually COMPLETELY on board with this Notre Dame plan.

Of course it will only apply in years when the Orange Bowl does not host a semi-final (1/3 of the time or 4 years during the 2015-2026 period).And Notre Dame will have to be half-way decent in terms of ranking / some pre-established minimum number of wins.

But face it.... they travel well, and they bring more eyeballs than any old team that has an equivalnet W-L record.

Per Dennis Dodd's article the other day.... the way the new bowl line-up is shaking out, the participating conferneces will effectively control the media rights to various bowls.The commitment of the top conferences give them the desired control.

One of the next things we should see will be a bidding war for the Champs bowl between the Sugar, Fiesta, and Cotton.Then we know which 3 bowls (Rose, Orange, and physical location for Champs) are set to be part of the [don't call it BCS].

I agree with you that the ACC is on board with this but I believe it is extremely short sighted on the ACC's part to want this if they want he Irish to ever join their conference. Why would the Irish join you conference and compete for 1 spot among 14 or 15 teams when they only have to win say 9 games or so to get in without any competition. Yes, Notre Dame will draw TV viewer but so would a 11-2 Georgia or a 11-1 Texas. The ACC should do everything to play the highest ranked team as they possibly can.

Imagine this, FSU is 12-1 and ranked #5 thus missing the playoffs but instead of playing a 1 loss Texas or Oklahoma or a undefeated Boise State ranked #7, they instead have to play a 9-3 Notre Dame team ranked #20. That would serve only the Irish.A scenerio that I could support would be a automatic OB bid to the Irish if they are ranked in the top 12 but the Irish probably would not support that idea because that would warrant a bid to any of the other major bowls not called the Rose or Champions.I assume the other 3 bowls get into the program per some sort of bidding process ?

So when you step back and look at this, there are now 12 slots vs. the current 10 in the Orange, Sugar, Fiesta, Rose, NCG.2 new slots have been added. It will be interesting to see if any are non-affiliated with the "Big 5" (to accomodate a top 12 BE / MWC / CUSA / MAC ? Sun-Belt (cough !) team).I suppose that Notre Dame slot in the Orange Bowl would be such a slot in years when the Orange Bowl is not a semi-final and ND stinks.

OK, well rank the goals for the ACC -1) get your top team into a semi-final (they are going to have to earn that).2) maximize bowl income for the conference (not sure exactly how that will be figured for the 6 big bowls....

We are talking about #2, and the ACC wants to occupy as many slots in those bowls as possible.Maybe everyone will get a share of the big 6 bowls per some formula, in which case it's almost irrelevant who play whom.If the bowl revenue goes (per some distributin formula) to the particaipants, you want to play to a big TV audiencce in a full stadium.

If FSU is #5, in my mind they are out of the NC hunt, so it's just all about the money....

Under the current system, there has been all this hysteria about playing in a BCS bowl.If you are not #1 or #2, you are just playing a made-for-TV exhibition game, so who cares ?The real attraction of the non-NC BCS games is the huge $24 million that the partipant teams earn for themselves / their conference.

Now you want to make the top 4 for your bowl experience to be meaningful. The other 8 in the non-semi-final games are really just playing for the money.

Yeah, say an ACC club goes 9-3, with loss #3 coming from the ACC championship game, with two other ACC'ers finishing strong at 11-1 and 10-2 respectively. The Irish finish 9-3. For some strange reason, ACC doesn't make it into the 4-team playoff. ND plays the 11-1 team in the OB. How is it fair to the 10-2 and 9-3 teams?

And what if any one of those teams are FSU, either forced to play an inferior independent or relegated to a second or third-rate bowl while the Irish make bank?

I just don't see where ACC schools or the conference itself would be fine with the Irish getting a first-look to the OB. Not JUST because ND is a target school for the conference, but because what it allows to fester within the ACC itself. The ACC > ND by a long country mile...and many of the programs within the ACC > ND by that same distance.

When one considers the amount of exposure the Irish have had because of their favored status in the BCS era, it's no wonder they can still play this game with their football independence. They are the masters of the proviso.

Yeah, say an ACC club goes 9-3, with loss #3 coming from the ACC championship game, with two other ACC'ers finishing strong at 11-1 and 10-2 respectively. The Irish finish 9-3. For some strange reason, ACC doesn't make it into the 4-team playoff. ND plays the 11-1 team in the OB. How is it fair to the 10-2 and 9-3 teams?

And what if any one of those teams are FSU, either forced to play an inferior independent or relegated to a second or third-rate bowl while the Irish make bank?

I just don't see where ACC schools or the conference itself would be fine with the Irish getting a first-look to the OB. Not JUST because ND is a target school for the conference, but because what it allows to fester within the ACC itself. The ACC > ND by a long country mile...and many of the programs within the ACC > ND by that same distance.

When one considers the amount of exposure the Irish have had because of their favored status in the BCS era, it's no wonder they can still play this game with their football independence. They are the masters of the proviso.

I think ideally, it's just about having the right language in the agreements. The Orange Bowl and ACC could agree to a deal where ND is part of it, but still relies on an invite in a given year. So it's about signing up ND so that WHEN the Orange Bowl WANTS ND, ND is locked in. If it means HAVING to put them in the rotation once every 5 years if they finish with 2 or less losses to get them signed up, it's probably worth it.

It would be hoped that the ACC-Orange Bowl deal will look for partner agreements that would assure a high ranking opponent (talking top 10 or so here) for each contest. The ACC does not have a great volume of schools that travel really, really well. Clemson and FSU can sell their tickets; as may UNC with a great record. If some of the others win out, it could be a gamble as to ticket sales.

Two years ago, when VPI faced Stanford in the OB, VPI managed to sell 6,500 of its 17,500 ticket allotment. In 2008, VPI sold around 3,300 tickets when it played Cincy in the 2009 OB (from 7/4/2012 article by M. Giannotto in the Washington Post). During the last 12 years, the ACC has played in 10 Orange Bowls and only won one. VPI played in 3 of those including the 2009 win; FSU played in 3; Maryland, Clemson, GT, and WFU played in one each.

The point is not to show the ACC's overall, unimpressive W/L record for the OB & BCS; but to indicate the Orange Bowl needs to land successful partners to secure being a top bowl and challenge the ACC with strong competition rather than mediocrity by "name" only.

Having a repeating ACC champion vs Notre Dame (assuming they are at least good but not outstanding) could get dull fast.

Agree a 10-2 Georgia (Seanbo post) or Penn State could do just as well or better than a 9-3 Notre Dame.

IMO, the Orange Bowl should not give Notre Dame any kind of lock-in for the game. If Notre Dame is best among those meeting the criteria for what's available for selection in a given year, welcome them! I do think the Orange Bowl will have to factor in the variable of ticket-selling/TV draw in the ultimate selection, but not compromise in quality whereby it looks overly discriminating. Would the Orange Bowl want a well-ranked 11-1 Wyoming team over a 9-3 Notre Dame? I doubt it.

Last edited by sec03 on Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I think ideally, it's just about having the right language in the agreements. The Orange Bowl and ACC could agree to a deal where ND is part of it, but still relies on an invite in a given year. So it's about signing up ND so that WHEN the Orange Bowl WANTS ND, ND is locked in. If it means HAVING to put them in the rotation once every 5 years if they finish with 2 or less losses to get them signed up, it's probably worth it.

That can be sort of tricky, though, when it plays out. Many bowls would want Notre Dame regardless of their record because of the money they generate and how well the school and fans travel. I think the OB would want them just about every year, then. But when the Irish are REALLY good, I suspect the OB won't get them. Assuming ND keeps the most-favored-indie status, if ND breaks the top 10, they're a playoff team.

When Notre Dame won't be good enough for a playoff, and find themselves in the OB, we'll see the variations of the '06 Fiesta and '07 Sugar; an overrated paper giant exposed by an actual and true good team. That will get old very fast to the ACC and its fans.

I'll resist putting this into the Big East thread, but I think this is very relevant to them, too. If ND gets this through, I suspect something big will happen within the Big East, with either a lawsuit or Notre Dame's ollies leaving/booted.

Time to cut the charade. Give Notre Dame two months to sign whatever recruits they want before anyone else gets to pick. If some better recruits land elsewhere & perform, have Notre Dame take them at will. Allow Notre Dame to hand-pick their opponents yearly, allowing them to make schedule changes at whim. They choose location, time, and circumstances without negotiation. Employ game officials clever enough to make on field calls favoring Notre Dame and the ability to throw games, that most observers would not see as biased. Notre Dame gets free pick for playoff-games and bowls of their choice. All revenue of their direct participation that is generated, they must receive 75%. Each conference and individual school renders 25% of their total earnings and revenue to Notre Dame, regardless if any have Notre Dame scheduled. Provide each member of the fawning media that belove Notre Dame, a free Lou Holtz coffee mug, each stuffed with 3 day vouchers for lodging, dining, and golf at a Myrtle Beach resort. All TV coverage, for everyone, must first be cleared with Notre Dame who determines their own cut and what's left for others. All colleges and universities other than Notre Dame must pay for the very top Madison Avenue firms to promote the term BEND (Big East Notre Dame), and make it the most glorious acronym in sports history.

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