I don't know about you guys, but he looked so average in Cleveland. No hops, no fire, no NOTHING! He didn't even look ripped like he used to be. I would like to see him back in Detroit in some capacity. I don't have any animosity for him taking the money, but he was what he was when he left; older and out of place, not a starter.

I don't know about you guys, but he looked so average in Cleveland. No hops, no fire, no NOTHING! He didn't even look ripped like he used to be. I would like to see him back in Detroit in some capacity. I don't have any animosity for him taking the money, but he was what he was when he left; older and out of place, not a starter.

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I don't see how Ben could now help Detroit. He doesn't seem like the coaching type.

Secretly i think he would love this. I think his ego has taken a big hit since he's left.

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I don't think people understand Ben Wallace.

This game was never about his ego. His ego was tied to his capacity to compete. It's a rare man in our society who prides himself on what he does and what he can do, not on what other people think of him.

It speaks volumes about his character that as an enormously wealthy man, he would finish his education to get involved with law. Others want to hide out in the broadcast booth, or like Dave Cowens hang out on the bench.

Ben appears to me to be a lot like Barry Sanders. We only know him within the context of the game. Not outside of it.

This game was never about his ego. His ego was tied to his capacity to compete. It's a rare man in our society who prides himself on what he does and what he can do, not on what other people think of him.

It speaks volumes about his character that as an enormously wealthy man, he would finish his education to get involved with law. Others want to hide out in the broadcast booth, or like Dave Cowens hang out on the bench.

Ben appears to me to be a lot like Barry Sanders. We only know him within the context of the game. Not outside of it.

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Barry was less money oriented than Ben. Barry walked away and left money on the table. Ben left the Pistons in a cash grab and now he thinks he deserves a buyout.

I love Ben but he ain't no Barry Sanders, Roscoe.

I think Ben failed us in the EC Finals his last year here too. He gave up. He didn't even seem to care.

Barry was less money oriented than Ben. Barry walked away and left money on the table. Ben left the Pistons in a cash grab and now he thinks he deserves a buyout.

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Barry didn't want to give back his pro-rated signing bonus, which everyone in football understands is an upfront payment deferred in the cap hit over the years of the deal.

Barry also didn't exactly quit in the most upfront way.

I don't think Ben left the Pistons in a cash grab personally. I think Joe never really intended to re-sign him. We got rid of Darko, Corliss to make way for money for Ben, but when the time came, if we had re-signed Ben, we wouldn't have been able to re-sign Billups.

Dumars didn't even make a counter offer to Ben, more years less money or some other such thing.

Chicago had a host of young talent we could have taken in a S&T, Joe simply did not want to add salary. Since Ben left, Joe has not paid ANYONE more than the mid level, except Dice, but that was paid out by Denver, we can only presume Dice got such a fat deal was as trade fodder.

We gotta remember, Ben was more than willing to watch Sheed get $12 million and Tay get his payday, and patiently waited because Joe promised to take care of him. I remember an article on the DetNews about how Ben could force a renegotiation but he didn't want to disrupt things. He was going to play out the deal he agreed to.

I think Ben failed us in the EC Finals his last year here too. He gave up. He didn't even seem to care.

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His block on Shaq, then subsequent tipoff win in the second to last game, Ben played like a warrior. He was losing his game, but I don't think he tanked until Sheed and Tay had thrown in the towel, as they are wont to do before the series is over, over.

I don't know for sure. Like I said, I'm fairly certain we all think we know Ben but only within the context of the game. I remember seeing his digs in Detroit, and how his place was unfurnished, how he was supporting all his brothers and sisters, and his big expenditure was RC racing. In a lot of ways, he reminds me of Sanders, from the quiet southern guy, to the family oriented behaviour to the relative lack of complication in his outlook.

He ain't no Barry Sanders. He did more with less. Chauncey may have been the Finals MVP in 2004, but Ben was the engine behind that machine. Barry was a fantastic individual player, but he wasn't a locker room leader, and he didn't bring his teammates to another level. Ben made everyone on the court better.

Anyway, it probably sounds like I am all emotionally invested in this. I'm not. I just see it differently.

Please, don't even attempt to compare Barry and Ben. The two organizations are the huge difference in how they handled the star player. Pistons did so with economics and age in mind, the other did as they always do, all flash and no substance for help.

Main thins that bothers me is about how he handled his differences with Flip. Being a contract year I know he did not have the same clout. Seems like he could have done something to air his difference with the coach rather than just throwing in the towel and leaving town.

This game was never about his ego. His ego was tied to his capacity to compete. It's a rare man in our society who prides himself on what he does and what he can do, not on what other people think of him.

It speaks volumes about his character that as an enormously wealthy man, he would finish his education to get involved with law. Others want to hide out in the broadcast booth, or like Dave Cowens hang out on the bench.

Ben appears to me to be a lot like Barry Sanders. We only know him within the context of the game. Not outside of it.

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IMO, Ben needs to feel useful. It's not necessarily what other people think of him but what he thinks of himself. I think he's his own worst critic. Being retained as a defensive specialist and coming back to a town he felt his best years were in would i think do wonders for his ailing self-confidence, self inflicted or otherwise.

Also i don't think Ben wants to retire, but that's another story.

I think he's great, but i have to admit that my perception of him here was probably through Piston-colored glasses. Since he's left, he's made alot of excuses and done some things i don't expect from Ben.

He may not be egotistical in the typical sense, but he has alot of stubborn pride.