Well that's what he has said, I'm not making anything up, why does it matter what I say about Alonso anyway? Does it bother you that much really?

Yes you did since Alonso has not said such things in the time frame you pointed out.

And this thread isn't about what bothers me or not. It's about the driver you prefeer to win, only that since you brought along an argument to put down Alonso I felt the need to debate it. It's nothing personal, it's just a forum thing.

Yes you did since Alonso has not said such things in the time frame you pointed out.

And this thread isn't about what bothers me or not. It's about the driver you prefeer to win, only that since you brought along an argument to put down Alonso I felt the need to debate it. It's nothing personal.

I don't think Fernando reads this forum so no point fighting his battles for him. Maybe he hasn't said things like that from what you've seen, but from interviews I've watched he has. So we can agree to disagree and leave it.

And before that, in Spain he had a better car, in Monaco he had an equal car. So yes, yes he did.

Yes, never mind the 20 seconds gap Vettel had before the safety car. It is funny how Vettel fans twist the Valencia result all the time. On any other thread, Alonso only won because the safety car and because Vettel retired, hence Alonso the inheritor. Now, you are using the Valencia result in favor of "Alonso having equal or better car". Genius

He knows his car is better than the Ferrari, he's leading the championship... He has the WDC in his bag. So really, I don't understand why he needed to point out this when the WDC still has not finished. Perhaps the second paragraph of the article is the problem so he needs to announce that him winning would be as worthy as if Alonso won it? I mean, he may be right but that he needs to announce it like that is really arrogant.

What did you expect him to say? "Alonso deserves the championship more than me"??

You add up all the negatives of Alonso ... personal behaviour, attitude to other drivers/teams, blackmail history, lack of competitive teammates, team orders when they were illegal, huge team budget compared to others (and funnelled into 1 driver/car), illegal tobacco sponsorship, etc etc...

He even invented the finger waving in the 2005/6 seasons that people give Vettel so much shit about.

It's a real enigma to me how fans and especially Brits will gloss over all those negatives yet lay it thick on SV. This season Alonso has been fantastic, but Vettel has had less crashes, more mechanical issues and time after time pulled off clinical overtaking moves when he really had to get ahead of someone, when we have seen Alonso, Webber, etc. repeatedly getting stuck behind someone for a whole stint.

Yes, Alonso was to blame for all his crashes... And when did Alonso get stuck behind for an entire stint in a faster car?

A lot of so called "analyses" simply declare RBR to be a faster car, but is that really a fact? Gut feeling I am afraid is sometimes misleading, especially if a rival driver can circle tracks in metronomic precision, unappreciated by most.

In Malaysia, he cost himself a fourth place by sweeping too early across the front of Narain Karthikeyan’s HRT while lapping it. There was a hint of frustration and a sense of entitlement about the move – as there was in his post-race comments in which he called Karthikeyan an “idiot”.

A lot of so called "analyses" simply declare RBR to be a faster car, but is that really a fact? Gut feeling I am afraid is sometimes misleading, especially if a rival driver can circle tracks in metronomic precision, unappreciated by most.

Let me ask this then... Do you think Hamilton and Alonso are the type of drivers to qualify between 3 tenths and a second off pole consistently?

Let me ask this then... Do you think Hamilton and Alonso are the type of drivers to qualify between 3 tenths and a second off pole consistently?

Hamilton certainly did not and enjoyed mostly the fastest car. McLaren as a team did certainly not deliver as well as Red Bull Racing and Ferrari. Race pace is a different story and Red Bull and especially Ferrari were more competitive there.

Hamilton certainly did not and enjoyed mostly the fastest car. McLaren as a team did certainly not deliver as well as Red Bull Racing and Ferrari. Race pace is a different story and Red Bull and especially Ferrari were more competitive there.

I was talking about since Singapore. When Red Bull became the class of the field...

I agree about the race pace but often Alonso has been to far back to do anything with it.

So giving praise and admiting other team's strengths is arrogant. Amazing.

Don't forget Alonso said we are NOT ONLY FIGHTING VETTEL, we are also fighting Newey. That's not taking anything away from Vettel but admitting Newey's designs are being extremely competititve and hard to race against.

after abu dhabi:Alonso is quoted by Switzerland's Blick: "When your competitor climbs from last place to the podium next to you, then it is clear that we are fighting against the best car."giving credit to the opponent at its best, especially considering mclaren was the fastest car of the weekend.

Yes you did since Alonso has not said such things in the time frame you pointed out.

And this thread isn't about what bothers me or not. It's about the driver you prefeer to win, only that since you brought along an argument to put down Alonso I felt the need to debate it. It's nothing personal, it's just a forum thing.

Creepy, why do you start an argument in praise of Alonso and insulting Vettel fan whatever thread you're on?

I swear I've seen you accuse RBR of cheating, saying Newey is the only reason Vettel is winning/it's the car, Vettel doesn't deserve it etc. on the Vettel thread, the Alonso thread, the RB8 thread, the F2012 thread and a hell of a lot of others. Grow up.

Yes, never mind the 20 seconds gap Vettel had before the safety car. It is funny how Vettel fans twist the Valencia result all the time. On any other thread, Alonso only won because the safety car and because Vettel retired, hence Alonso the inheritor. Now, you are using the Valencia result in favor of "Alonso having equal or better car". Genius

Not a Vettel fan, and I never said his car was equal or better I just said he won the race.If I wanted to say he had an equal or better car I'd have said it, I didn't, I said he won the race, that's a fact.

By the start of the season I wouldn´t give a shit about who wins if it was between these two, but now I want Vettel to win with all my soul. It would piss all the people trying to take credit away from him. I want to hear Lobato, I want to see Hamilton´s face, I want to listen what Alonso has to say.

I hope it's his English (a lot of us don't have English as mother tongue) but I fail to understand why he believes our problem is with him wanting Vettel to win instead of Alonso when we clearly pointed out what our problem was.

I really think this issue is slightly off-topic but since it was used "as an argument" to support either driver I felt the need to debate it...

Not sure if sarcasm, but in case it isn't, I don't understand why throwing such praise to a car designer is so disrespectful.

He knows his car is better than the Ferrari, he's leading the championship... He has the WDC in his bag. So really, I don't understand why he needed to point out this when the WDC still has not finished. Perhaps the second paragraph of the article is the problem so he needs to announce that him winning would be as worthy as if Alonso won it? I mean, he may be right but that he needs to announce it like that is really arrogant.

It's just a classic case of people putting words into Alonso's mouth and using any means possible to make him the evil guy. It doesn't matter we know its BS anyway.

He knows his car is better than the Ferrari, he's leading the championship... He has the WDC in his bag. So really, I don't understand why he needed to point out this when the WDC still has not finished. Perhaps the second paragraph of the article is the problem so he needs to announce that him winning would be as worthy as if Alonso won it? I mean, he may be right but that he needs to announce it like that is really arrogant.

I think Alonso deserves the title over Vettel, especially considering the difference in machinery between the 2. But then, in my obviously biased opinion, I think Lewis has performed just as well as Fred from a driving standpoint and equally wouldve deserved the title, but poor reliability and poor teamwork has put paid to any chance of that happening. That said, from a fan of F1 in general, I'd much rather see Alonso get his 3rd crown... He's been there all year and thoroughly deserves it. Red Bull has done a great job maximizing their potential, not letting too many opportunities slip away and generally has performed as a top team should. I wouldn't begrudge Seb if he sealed the deal either, but I feel Fred has edged him this year, unquestionably.

Meh, Alonso being gifted one victory in Europe doesn't change the fact that he had to fight tooth and nail for his wins in Malaysia and Germany. On the other hand, Vettel was gifted the win in Singapore by Hamilton and gifted the 3 others by Red Bull's dominant car. The only win he's actually had to fight for was Bahrain. Alonso is more deserving.

Vettel, for many reasons, one being that i think he's done the best job with the minimum of fuss and drama, one of which is that i've found it extremely tedious reading about the other two heroes blowing smoke up each others arses, and another being that it might go some way to shutting up those who think he can't handle pressure, personally i think he handles it as well as any other driver, if not better than quite a few of them, Alonso gets a lot of praise for never giving up, and rightfully so, but i think thats an attribute Vettel also has in spades.

I think both Hamilton and Alonso have been extremely disingenuous about Vettel as the season has progressed, no surprise really as he's the greatest threat either of them face, but it would be great if he wins it, if only to rub their noses in it, statistically speaking.

I have watched, listened and read about Alonso in all aspects and points of his racing life for the last 8-9 years and done the same for Vettel in the last 5-6. During that time I have come to the definite conclusion that Sebastian Vettel is a much "better" person than Fernando Alonso, if one can quantify such thing.

What did you expect him to say? "Alonso deserves the championship more than me"??

I just expected him to say nothing, as I said. It's pointless.

after abu dhabi:Alonso is quoted by Switzerland's Blick: "When your competitor climbs from last place to the podium next to you, then it is clear that we are fighting against the best car."giving credit to the opponent at its best, especially considering mclaren was the fastest car of the weekend.

He may be slightly wrong at times, but I don't see how what he said was a bad thing to Vettel.

Alonso also said in Italy that he had the fastest car but that he didn't take full potential of it. And in 2007 he also pointed out he had the fastest car. Alonso points out stuff about the car no matter if sometimes it favors him or it makes him look bad, because that isn't the point. And so the same for the rivals.

It has nothing to do with showing lack of respect for himself or his rivals.

In 2011 Vettel didn't deserve the title because he had a rocketship
In 2010 Vettel didn't deserve the title because Alonso was very unlucky to get stuck behind Petrov
In 2009 Button didn't deserve the title because he had an illegal car which was dominant
In 2008 Hamilton didn't deserve the title because he was just extremely lucky that Glock didn't make it till the end on those tyres
In 2007 Raikkonen didn't deserve the title because Hamilton was told to switch off his engine

...

Therefore, no matter the WDC outcome, the winner eventually will not deserve the title.