Don't let my opinion bother you...it's just an opinion. Sports cars should be nimble...not boaty (just my opinion). I thought you said it was 3300 lbs? Now it's 3000 lbs? that's a big difference

You ever seen what removing weight does for a cars handling braking AND acceleration? How could anyone want MORE weight? Heavier the car; the less return on the power you make. Now your 100 whp increase looks like a 50 whp increase on the lighter car. Weight is just a bad deal with exponentially bad consequences in EVERY area of performance

When I was talking about 3300 pounds I was talking about the 370z my last post was about the c6 z06 witch is a few hundred pounds lighter. I understand that you like 4 cylinder cars that are small and light, but to call a car a pig just because its 3000 pounds is a bit extreme to me.

Originally Posted by Sered

I've read otherwise. The VHR bottom-end is a bit more stout than the HR was. I've seen quite a few hitting 600whp reliably. They all seem to be GTM turbo kits though lol; it's as if no one else makes one.

There are VHR's that are pushed that hard , but I know of two right here in the north east that had problems. @nismo370 shot a rod threw is block @ 550 whp beat the crap out of it for 13k. Also another member on the 370z forum had 590whp bent rod was lucky enough to catch it. So when you ask safe whp level 500 whp 525 whp is safe.

My word choice is strong when I feel strongly about something. I don't think a 3300 lb car is the worst; I know there are literally houses on wheels out there at 4k+. When I got into cars (I'm not that old, 26 this year) the porkers were 3600 lbs (think F bodies and Cobras). Now 3300 isn't so bad; that's depressing to me when my first car wasn't "super light weight" but came in at a little over 2800 lbs (integra full interior; easily one of the "heavier" Hondas). I know you guys remember when Fbodies and Cobras were considered the heavier cars on the road; not anymore because you could remove your seats etc and get your Fbody down to 3300lbs.

Some of the best performing cars in the world weigh over 3000lbs... Mustangs, Camaro's, M3's, Corvette's, S4's, 911's, Boxster's, GTR's, Gallardo's, Ferrari's and the list goes on. Sure you have cars that weigh less than that, they more often fall into the truly exotic realm. To compare a Acura Integra at 2800lbs as a performance car is questionable in my view when stock vs stock it keep up with a 350/370Z in any circumstance.

Colin Chapman had a great view on performance when he started his iconic brand, despite its overall lack of success from a sales point the concept has always been noble. My Scion FRS is one fun little car and of course anything can be made faster if you want but what makes cars like the FRS, Miata, RX8 and S2000 fun isnt the power. Its the balance, they are momemtum cars that excel with suspension mods & good tires more than anything else. When you push those cars too far with power you ruin the balance and turn them into something else. At least thats been my experience with doing V8 Miata's and Supercharged S2000's

eh I see 600 whp Z's trapping 130 mph...A lighter car like an FRS will do that with 500 whp. Yeah with a 100 whp deficit it's a drivers race (all bench racing aside; and that's with the "2900 = close to 3200 lbs" idea going on)... I never said it was going to be a rocket; but a 130+ mph street car (on a factory short block) that will hook is nothing to bat an eye at

I'd be impressed if a FRS would do 130mph with 500whp. With the powerband and gearing it would have, I doubt it would see north of 125.

Originally Posted by lvlemphiz

Yeah I know; I mentioned the Z being a tank as an aside...this is where it went. I never wanted to convince anyone of anything; I stated my opinion after someone asked me to elaborate on it. Some people like Mayo on their sandwiches...I don't

As an aside? You made it as a smug, passive-aggressive insult, presuming the FRS is some lightweight car or something as a dig against Zs. You got called on it, and now you're somehow rationalizing a car with 100whp more and a MUCH bigger powerband and 300lbs extra weight will run the same trapspeeds as a FRS with 500whp just to protect yourself.

In this era, 3200lbs is pretty light for a sports car. There's not all that many cars out there that get down that low. And if you want to keep playing the elitist card, well then your FRS is a tank too, because my old KA-T S13 was 2500lbs, it made 300whp and it magically ran 130mph trap speeds too.

I'd be impressed if a FRS would do 130mph with 500whp. With the powerband and gearing it would have, I doubt it would see north of 125.

As an aside? You made it as a smug, passive-aggressive insult, presuming the FRS is some lightweight car or something as a dig against Zs. You got called on it, and now you're somehow rationalizing a car with 100whp more and a MUCH bigger powerband and 300lbs extra weight will run the same trapspeeds as a FRS with 500whp just to protect yourself.

In this era, 3200lbs is pretty light for a sports car. There's not all that many cars out there that get down that low. And if you want to keep playing the elitist card, well then your FRS is a tank too, because my old KA-T S13 was 2500lbs, it made 300whp and it magically ran 130mph trap speeds too.

The frs in the link went 11.2 @ 127 with 440 whp..dunno what that guy is going on with

That's impressive, didn't see the link; I'm betting it makes more than 440whp though, probably around 500-525whp, which kind of throws your claims out the window. I've seen too many 500whp S2000s run 125mph to think it will ever change; it's about power under the curve and a 2 liter motor doesn't have it when pushing that much air with forced induction (unless the gearing is changed or nitrous is added).

Bone stock Z06s also run 125-127mph; and they are 'boats' by your standards (over 3000lbs right? lol) and make about 430whp stock.

And full stop... you drive a Neon and you're criticizing the weight of a Z? ROFL. The Neon is ridiculously heavy for such a tiny tin can.

That's impressive, didn't see the link; I'm betting it makes more than 440whp though, probably around 500-525whp, which kind of throws your claims out the window. I've seen too many 500whp S2000s run 125mph to think it will ever change; it's about power under the curve and a 2 liter motor doesn't have it when pushing that much air with forced induction (unless the gearing is changed or nitrous is added).

Bone stock Z06s also run 125-127mph; and they are 'boats' by your standards (over 3000lbs right? lol) and make about 430whp stock.

And full stop... you drive a Neon and you're criticizing the weight of a Z? ROFL. The Neon is ridiculously heavy for such a tiny tin can.