Give the guy a break! I have seen better knocks in tight situation against top class bowling attacks from him and Bravo as a pair...

And I've seen him fail much more often in all situations. I think Ramdin still loses. His Test average agrees with me.

Sreesanth said, "Next ball he was beaten and I said, 'is this the King Charles Lara? Who is this impostor, moving around nervously? I should have kept my mouth shut for the next ball - mind you, it was a length ball - Lara just pulled it over the church beyond the boundary! He is a true legend."

They're not even trying to score. For instance Tsotsobe in his current spell has 6-5-2-0. It's more than a joke, it's disgrace to West Indies cricket to play like this. There's only team who can realistically win the game and it's the West Indies.

Chanderpaul out.

That's a bit naive....

When Bravo and Shiv were batting, they were still a good 100 or so runs behind. Given Ramdin's poor form with the bat, and the long tail, if Shiv and Bravo had swung their bats, and got out irresponsibly, the Saffers could press the advantage. Remember, this was before the rain washed out a good hour and a half's play....

As we saw in England's tour of the Caribbean last year, even on dead batting tracks, the WI could collapse, and leave it to the tailenders to hang on for the draw.

You're flip flopping now Mike!! .. you were blowing the "Dowlin trumpet" from the start and begging for the guy to be included even when i was telling you he's a waste of space, "stats" are a feeble excuse in this case as the guy simply lacks talent, and if we were just going on "stats" then Marlon Samuels should be right back in the team right now!! ,

No, check my posts....

I've stated that I'm not a Dowlin fan, but felt he deserved this series, based on his stats in Test cricket. He's had his run, and failed. But with Barath injured, there really wasn't much alternative to him as opener. Smith and Richards have not succeeded in the longer format of the game.

As for Samuels, his stats in test cricket aren't particularly great. He's been inconsistent with the bat, much like Bravo....

Well the bowling is often a couple feet outside offstump, but I agree. Bravo in particular has lacked impetus. But then we look at Bangladesh today. Maybe it's a global disease affecting bad teams. Hmmm...

Here's the point I was making, which I'm sure you'll appreciate....

Harris is bowling way outside the legstump of the right hander (Bravo), who's batting has been inconsistent, and being in a losing team, is wary of taking an unnecessary risk, losing his wicket, and getting his team in trouble again. The pacer is bowling quite a bit outside offstump as well....

If this was a WI team that was at least winning some of their recent matches, then they'd feel confident having a go. But they just want to get thru a match without losing, and that sentiment is understandable, in a way.

Harris is bowling way outside the legstump of the right hander (Bravo), who's batting has been inconsistent, and being in a losing team, is wary of taking an unnecessary risk, losing his wicket, and getting his team in trouble again. The pacer is bowling quite a bit outside offstump as well....

If this was a WI team that was at least winning some of their recent matches, then they'd feel confident having a go. But they just want to get thru a match without losing, and that sentiment is understandable, in a way.

I understand why there was a conservative approach, with the fear of losing. And West Indies will have to get over a fear of losing (sadly) before they can instill a belief in winning. However there comes a time when impetus is needed. Against Harris that was particularly difficult, but the batsmen seemed largely content to let the fast bowlers bowl 2 feet outside offstump. Surely, on this tame pitch, some sort of advance could have been made once the batsmen were in.

On the whole I agree with what you're saying, but only to an extent. And that extent came after an hour and some into the morning session.

When Bravo and Shiv were batting, they were still a good 100 or so runs behind. Given Ramdin's poor form with the bat, and the long tail, if Shiv and Bravo had swung their bats, and got out irresponsibly, the Saffers could press the advantage. Remember, this was before the rain washed out a good hour and a half's play....

As we saw in England's tour of the Caribbean last year, even on dead batting tracks, the WI could collapse, and leave it to the tailenders to hang on for the draw.

For South Africa to get a big enough lead and be safe enough to declare they'd be leaving a maximum of 2 and a half sessions for West Indies to bat out. That was worst case scenario with a horrible collapse this morning and the two spinners bowling like drains. On the other hand just pulling level with South Africa and not taking most of the day to do so would leave SA needing to bat out around 3 sessions to be safe.

I understand we had Australia in trouble in that Test, but it seems that these days our big performances seem to be in vain, the senior players seem to always turn up when we are already behind (one nil down in the series), why didn't they play like this in the first test? that's my argument.

And it's a bit redundant when you consider OZ haven't come close to losing on the 'Gabba since the WI were here in 1988. Every team struggles there most get killed, the only draws since '88 have been rain affected. NZ only got close almost 10 years ago because of a very friendly declaration in what was, again, a rain-affected match. Why do you think it's always the first Test of the tour?

I've stated that I'm not a Dowlin fan, but felt he deserved this series, based on his stats in Test cricket. He's had his run, and failed. But with Barath injured, there really wasn't much alternative to him as opener. Smith and Richards have not succeeded in the longer format of the game.

As for Samuels, his stats in test cricket aren't particularly great. He's been inconsistent with the bat, much like Bravo....

That's my point though, he never "deserved" anything like you claim, he hasn't set the place on fire for Guyana that much lately and he wasn't exactly a superstar for the A-team either so why did he "deserve" anything? oh he hit a 50 against Australia so "he must be good" right? .

I was telling you the man shouldn't be anywhere near the side Mike and you kept on backing the guy, there's no point trying to deny it!!.