Yes, I prefer look of the 991 over the 997 turbo... if that's ok with you.

Here are other things I like you might disagree with:

The color blue
Vanilla ice cream
Dogs
Naps
...

It's quite an extensive list , but I think you might get the idea here.

I think the turbo always has looked great, but so has a non fixed wing 911. The 991 without the fixed wing is much more sleek while a turbo is much more dramatic. The 991 is easily along with a few other cars (i.e. AM Vantage etc) one of the best looking cars on the road in terms of its pressence and agressiveness. A turbo will undoubtedly be more aggressive...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bocassden

You are hilarious. Apparently your former ownership of a 997 makes your opinion fact. It does nothing better than an M3? I know you must simply be exaggerating to stand by your argument. Either that or you clearly know very little about cars.
For the record, I currently have both an E92 M3 and a 997.2 in my garage. I love them both, but come on fella, you can't really be believing what you're saying? Are you really sticking to your dogmatic beliefs even in the face of facts? Wait. You probably are. All the Obama crap you spew says you are pretty willing to overlook facts to stick to the party line. You head on over and cast your vote for the man with the magic underwear. You can bash Porsche all you want when Jesus comes to Missouri.

Agreed. There isnt anything stock for stock the M3 does better than a 997S other than provide better practicality and a higher redline.

You are hilarious. Apparently your former ownership of a 997 makes your opinion fact. It does nothing better than an M3? I know you must simply be exaggerating to stand by your argument. Either that or you clearly know very little about cars.
For the record, I currently have both an E92 M3 and a 997.2 in my garage. I love them both, but come on fella, you can't really be believing what you're saying? Are you really sticking to your dogmatic beliefs even in the face of facts? Wait. You probably are. All the Obama crap you spew says you are pretty willing to overlook facts to stick to the party line. You head on over and cast your vote for the man with the magic underwear. You can bash Porsche all you want when Jesus comes to Missouri.

Did you follow the entire conversation? If not, go back and re-read my comments on steering feel and brakes. Also, where did I say my opinon was gospel. I've owned both cars (and many other performance cars) and know quite a bit about them and their abilities from track to everyday driving. I see you offer no opinon on what you feel is dramatically better on the 997. Your only defense is to say I'm wrong and then bring politics into the discussion. I'm not surprised though and expect exactly this from an Obama slurper. If you want to carry on the political discussion come on over to the politics section sport.

Nah sport. I'm not wasting my time. You repeatedly state your opinion as fact and YOU repeatedly bring politics into it. Frankly it was a momentary lapse in judgement to give you any merit by even responding to you.
I must say though, that invitation (challenge even???) to meet you on the politics forum is tempting. Your clearly advanced intellect is intimidating though. How can I possibly trade jabs with someone who uses the word slurper?? No defense for zingers like that! You are insinuating that because one disagrees with your political opinions that person must be metaphorically giving Obama oral sex. Brilliant and unassailable. I bow to your superior mind!
'Merikka. F*%# yeah!

I think the turbo always has looked great, but so has a non fixed wing 911. The 991 without the fixed wing is much more sleek while a turbo is much more dramatic. The 991 is easily along with a few other cars (i.e. AM Vantage etc) one of the best looking cars on the road in terms of its pressence and agressiveness. A turbo will undoubtedly be more aggressive...

Agreed. There isnt anything stock for stock the M3 does better than a 997S other than provide better practicality and a higher redline.

Nobody said the M3 did anything better than 997S. The point was, IN MY OPINON BASED UPON MY OWNERSHIP OF BOTH CARS, that the 997S doesn't do anything better (other than what we covered earlier in the thread) than the M3.

I dont see how you call it an incremental increase in performance though.

Ring - M3 8:05, 991S 7:40. The next M3 wont even come close to 7:40.

Trap speed - 991S is 118-119 mph vs 111-112 mph in the M3. 6-8 mph in trap speed is a completely different ballgame. Not even a FBO M3 with DCT will trap that and I doubt the next M3 when it comes in 2 years will be even trapping those speeds...maybe within 2-3 mph though.

ETs - same story...huge difference there.

And generally looking at lap times, the 991S put up times most 500-600 hp cars put down. M3 doesnt come close on any lap time whatsoever on any track.

And from any speed, any gear, any MPH, the 991S will pull away like a freight train.

The performance increase is significant. If you truly think that is only incremental then you'd have to agree that the performance increase from e46 m3 to e92 m3 was only incremental at best since the jump from our M3s to a 991S is bigger than e46 m3 to e92 m3...and we all know that is certainly not the case. And its not the case with the 991S either by any stretch.

Or we could say it this way. A 997 GT3 we can all agree is a BIG step up over our M3s, the 991S performs at nearly the same level on all aspects (yet is less in price than a new GT3 was)...you were even the one to say the 991S on fifth gear paced with the 997.2 GT3 tires considered.

I feel thats just an incremental improvement, especially when you are spending more than $30k. I'm not going to get into magazine racing with you...a few M3s have run almost 115mph stock.

If you can sling a 991S around Nurburgring at a 7:40 my hats off to you...don't think you can and therefore as I said..a moot point. I'm not debating the capabilities of the 991S, maybe you didn't read my post.. I would rather have one...just not at the price point it is being offered. Unless my financial means take a real good change for the positive. Would love to have one. I just don't see it in the cards right away.

As far as the GT3 being a big step up...well of course now we are talking a car that is close to $40-50k more than a new E92 M3 with PCCbs and the like.

My favorite car is a GT3, just wish it had back seats .

So let me clarify...I LOVE THE 991S, just don't feel its worth the money.

Nobody said the M3 did anything better than 997S. The point was, IN MY OPINON BASED UPON MY OWNERSHIP OF BOTH CARS, that the 997S doesn't do anything better (other than what we covered earlier in the thread) than the M3.

I also believe Porsche has their cars more track/performance orientated to begin with. With some nice coilovers, corner balance, mild suspension parts and these cars are beasts. Maybe some people just don't like that the our M3s can hang with the big boys for half the price.

I love the gt variants and would buy one in a second if I could, but would still be difficult to ditch my M. I also like how the engine is in the front which keeps it less darty than a Porsche. The M is always comfortable to drive fast. A big advantage in my opinion and exactly what I want.

Quoting Ring time is pretty pointless in my opinion. Nobody knows how the cars were prep for the run and there are too many variables especially when it's such a long track. I only take timings clocked by skilled drivers on the same track on the same day in a shoot out seriously. The cars in question should also be in showroom spec and not some track tires. I find it ridiculous for anyone to keep blowing the trumpet on cars that are so much more expensive. Of course they should be faster for that money!

Anyone who would rather have an M3 than a 911 is an uneducated fool and thats a fact. The 911 is one of the best if not the best sportscar ever build. The M3 is a heavy, modified 3 series designed for middle aged business men to haul their kids and fat wife around in. If you think the M3 is better than you're a poor ass peasant and probably a shitty driver. Man up and get a Porsche... You're welcome M3 forums.

I'm not a businessman, and my wife's not fat. I think you've got the BMW M3 confused with the Porsche Cayenne... The 911 isn't even the best sportscar Porsche ever built. Carrera GT, 917, 959... You're welcome bholloway.

I feel thats just an incremental improvement, especially when you are spending more than $30k. I'm not going to get into magazine racing with you...a few M3s have run almost 115mph stock.

If you can sling a 991S around Nurburgring at a 7:40 my hats off to you...don't think you can and therefore as I said..a moot point. I'm not debating the capabilities of the 991S, maybe you didn't read my post.. I would rather have one...just not at the price point it is being offered. Unless my financial means take a real good change for the positive. Would love to have one. I just don't see it in the cards right away.

As far as the GT3 being a big step up...well of course now we are talking a car that is close to $40-50k more than a new E92 M3 with PCCbs and the like.

My favorite car is a GT3, just wish it had back seats .

So let me clarify...I LOVE THE 991S, just don't feel its worth the money.

Dave

GT3 doesnt come with PCCBs stock, FYI. My analogy was that you agree the GT3 is a big step up, but the 991S performs nearly identically for less money than a GT3, so argueing the 991S isnt a huge step up, which it is, doesnt make sense to me.

Magazine racing aside, Ive been at the drap strip around here, and Atco and Englishtown are two of the fastest tracks in the country and Ive never seen a real world M3 stock trap more than 110 mph or so. Ive actually seen 991S' trapping 117 stock. That IS a huge jump in performance (7 mph in trap speed) just on the straight line front not to mention what happens when looking at track times. Even a FBO M3 with DCT will only trap about 116-117 and be in line with a stock 991S. You cant say that isnt very significant.
I never claimed I could personally run a 991S at 7:40, but you couldnt drive an m3 to an 8:05 either. I do know I would still be much faster in a 991S than an M3 or m3 GTS for that matter.
Granted the price is not cheap, but well worth it for the huge performance, the quality that is unmatched (except for maybe 2 or 3 other car makers out there) and a car that is as highly regarded as it is. The fact that this car has GT3 performance for less $$ is damn good. The 30K difference is more than justified when all things are considered IMO...just ask those who have switch from the M3 to the 991S and confirm this in spades not only on the price justification but in performance. 20 mph on the same corners in the 991S over an M3 is beyond huge.
In order to get the performance of this car, other than buying a gtr, z06 or GT500, youre not going to get this type of performance in the 991S for less money (new vs new) and none of those will give you the same experience or quality.
I dont doubt you love the car, but you are probably the only person I know who would say the performance increase is incremental rather than the massive step up it is. Again, the next gen M3 will be lucky if it can match the 991S (in a straight, wont touch track times) when it comes out in 2 years. If its not worth whatever it comes to in price per you spec, no prob, but that doesnt deny the performance difference being quite significant.

Well said wolf, I was a little surprised at Dave's use of the term incremental when comparing the performance of the 991S to the M3, although he later makes it clear that to him, it is not $35k or so of a difference.

I would also suggest to wait for the new Cayman S, it looks like it will make a great track car. Price wise, I have always felt that people that buy an M3 would be more inclined to cross shop a Cayman S since they are at a similar price point. That is unless you need more than two seats!

GT3 doesnt come with PCCBs stock, FYI. My analogy was that you agree the GT3 is a big step up, but the 991S performs nearly identically for less money than a GT3, so argueing the 991S isnt a huge step up, which it is, doesnt make sense to me.

Magazine racing aside, Ive been at the drap strip around here, and Atco and Englishtown are two of the fastest tracks in the country and Ive never seen a real world M3 stock trap more than 110 mph or so. Ive actually seen 991S' trapping 117 stock. That IS a huge jump in performance (7 mph in trap speed) just on the straight line front not to mention what happens when looking at track times. Even a FBO M3 with DCT will only trap about 116-117 and be in line with a stock 991S. You cant say that isnt very significant.
I never claimed I could personally run a 991S at 7:40, but you couldnt drive an m3 to an 8:05 either. I do know I would still be much faster in a 991S than an M3 or m3 GTS for that matter.
Granted the price is not cheap, but well worth it for the huge performance, the quality that is unmatched (except for maybe 2 or 3 other car makers out there) and a car that is as highly regarded as it is. The fact that this car has GT3 performance for less $$ is damn good. The 30K difference is more than justified when all things are considered IMO...just ask those who have switch from the M3 to the 991S and confirm this in spades not only on the price justification but in performance. 20 mph on the same corners in the 991S over an M3 is beyond huge.
In order to get the performance of this car, other than buying a gtr, z06 or GT500, youre not going to get this type of performance in the 991S for less money (new vs new) and none of those will give you the same experience or quality.
I dont doubt you love the car, but you are probably the only person I know who would say the performance increase is incremental rather than the massive step up it is. Again, the next gen M3 will be lucky if it can match the 991S (in a straight, wont touch track times) when it comes out in 2 years. If its not worth whatever it comes to in price per you spec, no prob, but that doesnt deny the performance difference being quite significant.

I know the GT3 doesn't come with PCCBs as standard, just making the point that the price of the GT3 would even be greater than the M3 by a much wider margin when you include options such as these. I mean you can price out a 991S to be in the $125K range, while the M3 fully loaded is still under $80K. A fully loaded GT3 is in the same range as a fully loaded 991S, so that was my point.

I'm not arguing or debating you on the rest of it...for me it just isn't worth that much of a difference. If I have that kind of disposable income, then I would love to get one, just the M3 really is the sweet spot when it comes to this kind of car. In my opinion, your opinion may vary.

Once again, I love the 991 and the 997.2 variety in any model. When it comes to me getting another PCar again it will have to be the 991S. Just once again I have to be in position to own such a car, again.