Posted 3 years ago on Jan. 11, 2012, 11:51 a.m. EST by ssjkakkarotx
(-77)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

What are you willing to give up for the "cause"? What will you sacrifice to make your dreams a reality? Are you willing to give your own life up if you knew it would further the cause?

Ok since I have to be more specific for some people. The cause I specified are your own personal beliefs. Maybe the reason your here on an OWS board. Or the reason you protest or 1 of a million other reasons that drive you. This board seemed an appropriate place to ask this question. I figured that most people would be able to fill in the blank without my having to take your hand an walk you through it.

nothing at all, zip, zilch, nada... not even a tax increase of 3% on my income over a million to help the national cause in reducing debt. in fact i commissioned a study that proves that taxing me more will cause hundreds of layoffs, and possibly numerous deaths and war.

la la la you really smacked me down like a bitch with that bright critique. what does a "shut the fuck up" comment like your's add? mine was serious commentary about a pervasive attitude among uber-rich.

1 I did not say STFU.
2 The conversation was not about what you want others to do. It's what YOU are willing to do. Since you won't answer or stay on topic , you add nothing to this. You might as well have said you like blue or that you think tin foil hats are fun. I have no obligation to respond to your questions if you won't make a useful contribution that is RELEVANT

Well I was being rather general , since OWS seems to have multiple factions. I guess it would pertain to what you personally want to see OWS achieve. Are you looking for a top down over haul of the entire gov't? Are any of your OWS beliefs strong enough that you would be willing to sacrifice your self for that belief.

I'd like very much to be able to say "Yes " absolutely. However until I'm directly confronted with a situation that requires my acting on my beliefs I couldn't say for sure.

My own history with having to choose the "right" thing over what my heart wants me to do is for the most part on the plus side. When I was younger though, my choices were often not ones I'd make today. I now have the benefit of a fair amount of perspective that comes with having lived a fairly long time.

I've learned this: those who speak in terms of absolute certainty are often foolish.

beliefnoun 1. something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat. 2. confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief.
3. confidence; faith; trust: a child's belief in his parents. 4. a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith: the Christian belief.

Not any children I may have in the future or the safety of any family I have in the future. If I believed in the cause I would gladly go hungry while I still fed my family when I have them. Sadly, I do not support most of the absurd BS I've heard on this forum.

As a skeptic, there is no belief for which I could sacrifice my life or anyone else's life. Logically, a sacrifice of one's own life seems inconsistent with the need to test the results. If you don't care about the results, then it cannot be a sacrifice.

True , however not every person will share your indifference. Most of the OWS will fall quickly away from logic when faced when a challenge to their beliefs. Emotion quickly overcomes logic and a simple choice becomes in their eyes a life changing event.

In the defense of people who cannot muster the mental fortitude required, we could draw upon the nature and nurture literature to point out that "All men are [not] created equal" nor are all people reared equally or even appropriately. In some, the Limbic system (emotion networks) of the brain dominate, in others, the cerebral cortex (logic functions) dominate until accident or drug abuse (such as alcohol) destroys key areas in the frontal lobes of the cerebral cortex, releasing emotions from its control. So, some do have to be slaves to their emotions, how many do, I cannot say. Does not our republican form of government depend on the rational behavior of its citizens? If so, then what are the consequence if a significant number of citizens do not act rationally? And what are our alternatives? Another question appears in this context: should we restrict the fundamental rights of people who are not balanced emotionally and logically?

Got my steel for my new tank stand. So I figure i will take a few minutes. Clearly any form of gov't requires rationality from it's citizens. A republic even more so I would say. The consequences of not acting rationally have led us to some of the issues we see now. A great example is the EPA's Biofuel fines, they want to assess , even though the bio-fuel they a demanding doesn't exist.
Alternatives.....unfortunately most if not all other styles have advantages over a Republic in THEORY. Practical application however renders them mute.
As for rights. We would have to identify what those fundamental rights are. Right now it's Life, Liberty and the PURSUIT of Happiness. Adding to them is a monumental undertaking , that would have to be given an extreme amount of thought and debate

One core right must be the right to vote. It was a question at the origin of our republic, and remains an issue today. A rational decision (even a self-interested decision as the evidence for rationality) was assumed by the framers. Even so, they preferred to give more weight to the interests of the States in the electoral college, and in the Senate, over the interests of small communities. Today, we are faced with an electorate that does not seem to vote rationally, but rather focusses on a few hot button issues and fears (pure emotion!). So again, what are our options? What can we do about it? Would our fellow citizens read through a series of 21st Century Federalist Papers, or even watch a series of 21st Century YouTube documentaries?

Would I give my life for the cause? That is a good question that I cannot easily answer, yet. Considering all the people that benefit from the current corrupt staus quo, I do not think this will be easy and unfortunately I do suspect before this is all over that there will be people that sacrifice their lives.

I know that we like to compare ourselves to the people in Egypt and other countries that are experiencing the Arab Spring, but clearly we are not on the same level. Those people have my deep admiration and respect for putting themselves in harm's way, often to see that their children have the chance to grow up in a better world than they did.

Hello Zendog. Nice poem, nice sentiment in your second stanza, but curious: what is "that thread that permeates the universe"? in what context are we "a secular nation", and" a progressive nation"? and in what context are we deficient in these traits? Sorry, I know that poets dislike having to explain themselves to literal types.

Yay another worthless zen post. ME ME ME I I I MINE MINE MINE. Self centered ego maniacs such as yourself do much damage to OWS. Maybe you could add lots of you cut n paste's now or talk up your "platform" Reading is clearly not one of your strong points either. I didn't ask if you understood what was at stake. I asked what YOU would sacrifice. Not that some one so selfish would ever be able to do such

I see your added to your OP, which makes this a bit easier. Initially, I thought you were going to sell me something. :D

I sacrifice time and energy currently. If I thought that my death would change everything-sure. But, that isn't how it works. In fact, it would land someone in a loonybin. So, therefore, collecting information, sharing information, brainstorming, pursuing by means of contact and attempting to implement change is my course. Further, sacrifice is also found in looking for alternatives to what are considered quick and easy. This may take many forms. Such as purchasing some groceries once a month in order to support local farms.