Pretty balanced as is. A grad transfer PG would be ideal to spell Crutcher. A freshman PG would be my next wish. Then a wing and the best available bigs regardless of status.

I firmly believe that Grant should recruit 3 big centers of the five available scholarships. Given what Dayton can recruit in big guys (can’t chew gum and walk at the same time) we can use them to take a lot of fouls. At best, if one of three could just rebound and play positional defense that would be enough. Maybe, if they could just not miss a layup, would be nice.Posted via Mobile Device

A lot depends on what’s available. Gregory tried to fill schollies in the fall because he felt there wasn’t much available in the spring, and what was available was damaged goods. That was before the plethora of transfers and decommits that have flooded the market of late. I think the focus should be on quality.

Best available PG who can play next year
Best available C/PF who can play next year
Best player who can play next year
Best PG, regardless of eligibility
Best player, regardless of eligibility

Brian Gregory

BRIAN GREGORY
UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

We need so much. While we keep most of our core, they weren't winners. We need help on defense more than anything. I have never seen a team that allowed runs of made fg's like we did, often giving up amazingly long runs of consecutive 10 fg's. Much of that is Josh playing the 5 out of position where he can't defend much bigger players or stop penetration or block shots after our other players get beat.

Word about five UD players leaving the program has to be spreading around the college basketball world. That leaves with 8 players as shown above.

I do not know how the process works, how players find out about openings without having agents, but I would think that good players looking to transfer, whether transferees, graduate players with one year of eligibility left, JUCO seniors, would see a historic program in immediate need of talented players with likelihood of considerable playing time right away.

I am curious whether we will have many or only a few candidates showing interest.

UD traditionally has struggled to recruit good big men and post players. While the game is very much guard oriented due to the 3, long athletic and skilled big men do make a difference.

Yes, there are exceptions to the rule, but teams with skilled bigs often perform well. The P5 conferences usually have better big men.

Steve and Kostas did impact games with their shot blocking. Many more shots were altered than just the ones they blocked. Neither were a great offensive player however.
Kostas had terrible footwork. Would be nice to get a big man in that size range with defensive and offensive skills.

I do believe that Josh is undersized as a post player and that hurts the team defense.

One losing season and they are all losers. Amazing logic. Maddog, you seem to have that ability to make me chuckle. Keep up the good work. Keeps me from having to go to comedy clubs on the weekends.

Losing record, losing non conference record, losing conference record in a down year for the A10. What do mighty Iona, Ball State, Wofford, Canisius, Belmint, Georgia Southern, Wagner, Tx Arlington, Radford, N Ky, Eastern Washington, Albany, Nichols St, Libscomb,Wright State, Furman, Rider, UC Davis, and many other have in common? Better RPI than our "winners". Keep laughing, most of the basketball world is having a good one on us.

We need a lot of new players and not just on the bench.Posted via Mobile Device

With five open scholarships, I think AG will get two transfers that will need to sit out. One to two grad transfers and one additional freshman. Best case scenario is a grad transfer point guard and grad transfer bulky down low guy. One of the two transfers is also a bulky down low guy and the freshman is a point guard. The other transfer is a guy like either Sibert or Charles Cooke who has mad skill but needs a developmental year.

I think AG is never going to use a rotation greater than 9 so better to either have a scholarship remain open or have one to two transfer kids so there are not too many pine riders which can provide its own problems.

A lot depends on what’s available. Gregory tried to fill schollies in the fall because he felt there wasn’t much available in the spring, and what was available was damaged goods.

At one that might have been true but I way disagree with this statement now. The way the coaching carousel is these days with decomits, late bloomers like Toppin and transfers

See, Jalen Crutcher

In the era of positionless basketball and with a coach who's willing to play 4 guards...

Two sit out transfers regardless of position. I'd love a post but if there are two guards who could be all conference caliber guys who want to come here I'd take them

We need some kind of a post. Foul trouble, sprained ankle and Josh goes down and it's Mikesell/Obi playing interior defense next year. Our offense would have been a disaster this year playing without Josh for long stretches. Ideally, I'd love to find a JUCO big but that might not possible. I'd be happy with a freshman and bench guy grad transfer to fill the gap

The dream would be to get that Center Wyatt Walker grad transfer with two years from Samford.

I'd take a grad transfer PG or Combo G who could be a ball handler behind Crutcher. A JUCO could work but I feel like it's awfully risky entrusting this role to a guy who's never played D1 ball. Plus the scholarship is done with next year and you can give it a kid signing in the fall

I think there's a flexibility between grad transfers/JUCO on plugging some of the intimidate wholes like backup PG & Post

Between Cohill/Davis/Crutcher we've got a good underclassmen core at guard. I'm not sure the guy is out there but a PF/C type freshman who could develop this year before getting thrown into the fire next year would be nice

The more i delve into this board the more i realize how wrong i was about Smitty and Maddog. C'mon Maddog. Returning guys are losers? Crutcher played many games at 40 minutes. Hard. You're right, what a loser. GTFOOH.

Go call Trey a loser to his face. I know a great dentist in Middletown.

1.) a 6`9" guy that looks like he could be a tight end when he leaves UD.
2.) A JC or grad transfer that would push Crutcher for the starting PG position.
3.) Somebody that can take the ball to the hole and be able to find shooters when the defense colllapses
4.) A 45% three point shooter
5.) A new bike

2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to John C. For This Totally Excellent Post:

What amazes me is that, back in the Donoher era (my youth/adolescence), we were able to get a few good bigs (Kanieski, Colbert, Montague), and several others who could eat space and provide solid minutes (Morrison, Uhl, Ross, McCracken, Zern, Gorney), but now we can’t find anyone over 6’8” who can walk & chew gum at the same time, and not be a head case? At a time when players in general are bigger and stronger than ever? It just boggles my mind that we can’t even get 1 such guy (with the sole exception of #5, God rest his soul).

Keep in mind, I’m not asking for someone like Bagley, Haas, or any other dominating presence. Just someone between 6’8” and 6’10”, with at least 230 pounds of beef on his frame, who could be counted on for @ 6 points and 5 rebounds a game. Is that player that impossible to find?Posted via Mobile Device

Don Donoher

DON DONOHER
Legendary Flyer men's basketball coach who guided Dayton to 435 victories in 25 seasons (1964-1989) including the 1967 NCAA Runner-Up. Took over the program after the passing of Tom Blackburn and earned many NCAA and NIT bids over his career, including five Sweet-16s, one Elite Eight appearance, and the 1968 NIT Championship. Groomed All-Americans Don May and Jim Paxson, along with all-time leading scorer Roosevelt Chapman. Coached UD as they joined conference affiliation for the first time (Midwest Collegiate). A graduate of UD, Donoher played for Blackburn and credits much of his coaching success to his mentor's teachings: defense, ball protection, patience, and unselfishness.

The more i delve into this board the more i realize how wrong i was about Smitty and Maddog. C'mon Maddog. Returning guys are losers? Crutcher played many games at 40 minutes. Hard. You're right, what a loser. GTFOOH.

Go call Trey a loser to his face. I know a great dentist in Middletown.

That is a dumbass comment

Again, How many games did they win?? Lasalle, no, Umass, no and no, any tournament wins, ahhh, no. Definebasketball winner for us will ya.

Massachusetts

MASSACHUSETTS
UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

LaSalle

LA SALLE
In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

What amazes me is that, back in the Donoher era (my youth/adolescence), we were able to get a few good bigs (Kanieski, Colbert, Montague), and several others who could eat space and provide solid minutes (Morrison, Uhl, Ross, McCracken, Zern, Gorney), but now we can’t find anyone over 6’8” who can walk & chew gum at the same time, and not be a head case? At a time when players in general are bigger and stronger than ever? It just boggles my mind that we can’t even get 1 such guy (with the sole exception of #5, God rest his soul).

Keep in mind, I’m not asking for someone like Bagley, Haas, or any other dominating presence. Just someone between 6’8” and 6’10”, with at least 230 pounds of beef on his frame, who could be counted on for @ 6 points and 5 rebounds a game. Is that player that impossible to find?Posted via Mobile Device

We've had a few. Kavanugh and Scott fit that mold. Unfortunately, both had issues so I guess that is what you meant about head case, eh?

Don Donoher

DON DONOHER
Legendary Flyer men's basketball coach who guided Dayton to 435 victories in 25 seasons (1964-1989) including the 1967 NCAA Runner-Up. Took over the program after the passing of Tom Blackburn and earned many NCAA and NIT bids over his career, including five Sweet-16s, one Elite Eight appearance, and the 1968 NIT Championship. Groomed All-Americans Don May and Jim Paxson, along with all-time leading scorer Roosevelt Chapman. Coached UD as they joined conference affiliation for the first time (Midwest Collegiate). A graduate of UD, Donoher played for Blackburn and credits much of his coaching success to his mentor's teachings: defense, ball protection, patience, and unselfishness.

We've had a few. Kavanugh and Scott fit that mold. Unfortunately, both had issues so I guess that is what you meant about head case, eh?

Kavanaugh, Scott, Robinson, Williams...whoever.

Benson and Searcy are the only guys I can think of in recent memory who were 6’9” or taller and completed 4 years at UD without any major incidents. And they came here a decade or more (and 2 Head Coaches) ago. He!!, even schools like LaSalle, Duquesne, and GW (with their bandboxes for home courts) have done better than that!Posted via Mobile Device

Duquesne

DUQUESNE
Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

LaSalle

LA SALLE
In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

Benson and Searcy are the only guys I can think of in recent memory who were 6’9” or taller and completed 4 years at UD without any major incidents. And they came here a decade or more (and 2 Head Coaches) ago. He!!, even schools like LaSalle, Duquesne, and GW (with their bandboxes for home courts) have done better than that!Posted via Mobile Device

Weren't Finn, Waleskowski and Huelsman taller than 6'9" and played for four years?

Duquesne

DUQUESNE
Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

LaSalle

LA SALLE
In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

Weren't Finn, Waleskowski and Huelsman taller than 6'9" and played for four years?

Ashman graduated in 2000, Finn and Waleskowski graduated in 2004, and Huelsman graduated in 2010.

Please find me someone who is currently less than 30 years old, played 4 years at UD, is not named Searcy or Benson, had no disciplinary issues, and is 6’9” or taller. And, with the current roster composition, it will be at least 9 years between the last guy who was 6’9” or taller and played 4 incident-free years at UD (Benson) and the next. A bit ridiculous, IMHO.

Not that height is everything, but to paraphrase the immortal John Wooden, you can’t coach a guy to be tall.Posted via Mobile Device

Would love to get a guy like the Loyola frosh or the Richmond red shirt frosh.

Archie tried with Steve, Miller, Kostas and Pierce. You have to keep rolling the dice.

Richmond

UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND
Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

it's truly an art to identify and develop bigs at this level of basketball. I think that guys that come from P5 aren't used to working with bigs that are as raw or know how to project guys that say teams that consistently have good bigs at our level and below do

it's truly an art to identify and develop bigs at this level of basketball. I think that guys that come from P5 aren't used to working with bigs that are as raw or know how to project guys that say teams that consistently have good bigs at our level and below do

That might just be it, OSU Flyer. Maybe BG and AM were just so used to dealing in P5 circles that they didn’t know how to beat the bushes properly for big guys who stood a snowball’s chance in he!! of coming to UD.

Of course, it could also just be that, at their height, anyone over 6’2” looked tall to them. Posted via Mobile Device

That might just be it, OSU Flyer. Maybe BG and AM were just so used to dealing in P5 circles that they didn’t know how to beat the bushes properly for big guys who stood a snowball’s chance in he!! of coming to UD.

Of course, it could also just be that, at their height, anyone over 6’2” looked tall to them. Posted via Mobile Device

I wish I could find the article but I read a great piece from the Omaha paper about Creighton coach Greg McDermott's philosophy on developing big men. He apparently had good luck at Northern Iowa when he was there (this was when Creighton was still in the Missouri Valley) and was bringing this process to Creighton.

He said he looked for guys that were 6'10 plus that might not be the most athletic or skilled but were willing to work hard & had a few things they did well to build off of.

Redshirt them their first year there and work hard on trying to add bulk & just teaching the fundamentals of post play. A lot of these guys are from farm country and haven't played against guys as tall as them or had someone who knew how to coach a big guy. Start building them up from the basics. Redshirt freshman and sophomore years you're not playing minutes but still working on skill development.

By the time you're a redshirt junior you've got a guy who's had enough weight training and development after 3 years on campus that they're ready to compete for major minutes.

The goal was always to be bringing in a big guy to redshirt every year and build a pipline.

If you look at this Geoffrey Groselle for them you can see the career arc he's talking about. He goes from barley playing his first two years after his redshirt he becomes a 11 & 6 with a block per game his senior year.

Fascinating. Great post. I guess convincing a project who is currently a stiff to red-shirt isnt hard to do. Actually brilliant strategy if the payoff is a guy who plays 25-30 minutes and is a 11pt 6reb 2 blk guy his upperclassmen years.

I agree with both of you, and that’s a great “share” OSU Flyer. You have to play the hand you’re dealt. McDermott knew he wouldn’t be in the running for guys with the skills of Karl-Anthony Towns, so he had a plan to take lemons and make lemonade. Now, we just need to do the same thing here.

And if McDermott doesn’t want the 6’9” or 6’8” guys, we’ll take ‘em!Posted via Mobile Device

that level of patience and development as far as I know doesn't exist in the P5 leagues. You're literally building a guy from the ground floor up often teaching basic skills with a payoff 3-4 years down the line.

McDermott was a guy that came up from the D2 ranks, those levels of basketball unless you find a real diamond in the rough, the only way you get them is if you develop them yourself

that level of patience and development as far as I know doesn't exist in the P5 leagues. You're literally building a guy from the ground floor up often teaching basic skills with a payoff 3-4 years down the line.

McDermott was a guy that came up from the D2 ranks, those levels of basketball unless you find a real diamond in the rough, the only way you get them is if you develop them yourself

What wasn't said but absolutely needs to exist is a kid willing to take the time to work on his game. Proof of that is Jordan Pierce.

My guess is that AG had all intentions of red shirting him when practice started in the fall. The kid didn't work and AG knew he wasn't going to stick. Transferring to another school would mean a one year redshirt so there was no loss to Pierce that he played in a couple games.

I'm guessing, in today's immediate gratification culture, it is harder and harder to find a kid willing to play minimal minutes for three years and spend the time working his craft for a payout of playing meaningful minutes for two years.

I was told on this board that red shirting, other than medical and academic, doesn't happen in college basketball anymore. Last year I suggested this type of development plan for Pierce and was told it won't happen because nobody red shirts anymore for just pure development.

I was told on this board that red shirting, other than medical and academic, doesn't happen in college basketball anymore. Last year I suggested this type of development plan for Pierce and was told it won't happen because nobody red shirts anymore for just pure development.

What makes Gonzaga different from every other NCAA Sweet 16 team

Eleven of the 17 players on the Bulldogs’ roster have redshirted during their time here. The other 15 teams still alive in the NCAA tournament have an average of 2.93 such players.

Yet Gonzaga has figured out how to turn the redshirt year into a recruiting tool. Player development is one of the program’s core pillars, and Knight presents redshirting as a problem-solving exercise that is different player to player and often day to day. The weight room isn’t a place to brag or turn into bodybuilders, but just one of dozens of tools for the players’ benefit.

“We literally try to not leave any stone unturned,” said Mark Few, Gonzaga’s head coach, “whether it’s nutrition or sleep or DNA predisposition to weights to speed, agility, flexibility, yoga.

“Capping out their potential has always been the goal. If you’re not getting the top five or 10 or 15 players in the country — which we don’t get coming out of high school — you focus on, Let’s get these other guys that we evaluate properly and know how hungry they are and their potential and then let’s do it that way.”

Why it works
The notion that the best player on the roster could be unavailable for game competition may seem like a risk of the redshirting strategy, but it’s really the point.

“What’s made it work is we have a culture of ownership and responsibility,” Lloyd said. “Those guys know they’re redshirting for a reason, and I always tell them the redshirt needs to be your ‘because’ year. Because you redshirted, you were able to do this. It’s not a wasted year. Your mindset needs to be at the end of your career, because you redshirted, you were able to do this, this and that.”

My wife is a Florida grad and listens daily to WRUF sports radio out of Gainesville. She told me the other day that one of the sportscasters (Pat Dooley) was talking about Anthony Grant and what a great job he did recruiting and developing big men at Florida. Some names of note: Al Horford & Udonis Haslem.

Hopefully this rep is still intact and AG can find/develop us someone of similar caliber.

In today's world of grad transfers, a coach risks developing a player only to see part their investment go bye-bye his fifth year...

absolutely a risk but I think that's mitigated potentially have more coaching stability than we've had before with AG and the level of program we have. If you're transferring up out of here, presumably you're going to a higher level P5 program. It would suck to lose a 5th year guy to Kansas but it would nice to have a guy who's good enough to go to that level.

We've had 5th year guys here and we haven't lost one yet.

I think that programs that get burned by grad transfer are at lower level than Dayton or lost their coach.

the loss was to both of us. It took a year to figure out his attitude and effort would never make it work. He walked away with a free year of Education

More like after 3 games and apparently AG hoped the lightbulb would come on but X was feeding him the golden koolaid. What a waste. Watching Loyola coach the interaction with his player was great, no *****ing just reinforce the positives. Having four great shooters and a big was great to see.

In today's world of grad transfers, a coach risks developing a player only to see part their investment go bye-bye his fifth year...

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer

absolutely a risk but I think that's mitigated potentially have more coaching stability than we've had before with AG and the level of program we have. If you're transferring up out of here, presumably you're going to a higher level P5 program. It would suck to lose a 5th year guy to Kansas but it would nice to have a guy who's good enough to go to that level.

We've had 5th year guys here and we haven't lost one yet.

I think that programs that get burned by grad transfer are at lower level than Dayton or lost their coach.

There is some risk is that you're investing 5 years vs. 4 when you really don't know if the extra development is going to pay off. And there is also risk that you burn the redshirt when you could need it later on for a medical situation. But yes, the primary risk is that it does pay off, but not for Dayton, as it sets up the potential for a kid to use Dayton a stepping stone to get to a better program to play out his last year of eligibility.

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer

What makes Gonzaga different from every other NCAA Sweet 16 team

Well, Gonzaga has a coach that ain't going anywhere, and they are in the NCAA tourney every year. Assuming that Grant doesn't want to use Dayton as a stepping stone (been there, done that and the whole alum thing), then Dayton can mitigate the risk by being a program that you just wouldn't want to transfer out of (i.e. Gonzaga). If you are a senior and you think Dayton can make a deep tourney run, you're not looking at another program, even if you've got the free pass as a grad transfer.

But when it comes to sitting bigs for a year of development, DAYTON HAS IN FACT DONE THIS A BUNCH RECENTLY. It's just they're doing it in a different way, and in a way that Gonzaga can't. What Dayton has done recently is admit three bigs -- Kostas, Big Steve and Obadiah Toppin -- who were deemed non-qualifiers by the NCAA who therefore would sit, similar to a redshirt big at Gonzaga would. Also, I think this was the plan with Devon Scott, who was very borderline, but managed to get through the clearinghouse.

Anyway, the key point Dayton vs. Gonzaga here is that the WCC does not permit admission of a nonqualifier on athletic scholarship. Several other conferences prohibit or restrict that has well. The A10 allows it however and Dayton has at least attempted to take advantage of this rule, going after guys that other programs, like a Gonzaga, can't go after.

1.) a 6`9" guy that looks like he could be a tight end when he leaves UD.
2.) A JC or grad transfer that would push Crutcher for the starting PG position.
3.) Somebody that can take the ball to the hole and be able to find shooters when the defense colllapses
4.) A 45% three point shooter
5.) A new bike

Crosby never turned out to that #3 , which Scooch and others excelled at. Dribble penetration and dish, or get it inside to Pierre or Pollard, and then some nice passes -interior and to the outside resulted from that initial pass.

I'd like #1 and #3. And a new Drone.

With Number 3 it helps with outside shooting %'s. Same with getting a passing, space eating type of big man.

My daughter graduated from St. Mary's College (Moraga, CA), so I at least pay attention to their Men's BB program, that has been successful over the last few years. They have done well with players from Australia, New Zealand, and other South Pacific islands. Should we be looking overseas?