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nice story about the raise! i nenglected to mention, since ya work there, that was the right thing to do. if nothing came of it when oh well. i guess its a balance of letting things go and doing something about it. "it" being whatever ;p i dont mean 100% but in general let stuff go. (directed at theh list in the origional post)

I just want to let you know that you are definitely not alone! I too suffer from depression and feel the same way about the horse industry you do. Unfortunately I had to give up the greatest passion of my life because I could no longer pretend that what I was doing was truly in the best interest of these animals. I couldn't make a living off exploiting a living animal for personal gain. No matter how hard I tried to justify it, I just couldn't. So I gave it up. Quit cold turkey, threw away everything I ever loved and dreamed about.

That was 2 years ago and I still struggle with it every day. It's a crushing, desperate feeling. I don't feel happy, don't feel I'm where I belong and I don't know that I belong anywhere. I feel lost with absolutely no direction. Even though I just graduated school in a field that I enjoy, that passion is barely a faint sliver of how I used to feel. But it's something I can never go back to. I can only hope I will one day be able to let go of the pain and am just trying to come up with new goals to keep me moving forwards.

Ease up on yourself! Some of what you say is all normal stuff to me! Life ain't all happiness! Work sucks! People often suck! The world sometimes craps on you! It is what it is! Keep your glass half full!!
And carry on with a smile.
Keep smilin' - never let them see you sweat!!

I need to tattoo that on my forearm

I hate that people suck and are so disappointing and that I'm people. I could theoretically cut myself off completely from everybody else, but I would still be there, so I am stuck with keeping on with the self-improvement and acceptance. Blaaah.

Even though my head is still above water at the moment, the signs of my depression are glaring at me: housework and yard work piling up in ways that are starting to cross from untidy to gross, phone calls unanswered and un-returned, money mis-spent, the confused looks of those I've attacked with sarcasm rather than understanding, choosing a bag of Cheetos over going for a swim. Even though I seem to get through each day all right, I just don't see myself in the future. Waaah.

Banshee Breeze, I'm so sorry you had to give up your passion. I was always a horse crazy girl, and it's a feeling I don't always understand. Why do I have to have horses and a barn in my life? Why can't I feel the same way about something else? I do think I have some answers to those questions, but there are definitely days I wish I could snap my fingers and be really passionate about, I don't know, bicycles.

I went "cold turkey" myself for all of one year from age 16 to 17. I had reached a level where I could be competitive at bigger shows and found I felt turned-off and alienated in that environment. I've done a lot of living since age 16 and the questions I started raising as a young teen have largely been replaced by established and more moderate points of view. As much as I cared about horses, I wasn't really seeing them on their terms, from their perspective and motivations. I'm still not sure if I know what those are, but at least now my love of horses is more mature and grounded and less romantic. Better for me, better for the horses.

The world we live in is insanely savage in every corner. I really don't know that what I think is right and wrong matters at all. I'm quite certain my personal successes and failures are meaningless on any scale larger than my immediate here and now. But I know anytime someone acts in ways that go against their own values, they will be frustrated and unhappy. And I know trying to apply values scrupulously, without inconsistencies and contradiction also makes people miserable.

BansheeBreeze, I take at face value your assertion that you can never go back. I'm not sure if that means horses in general or whatever specifically you were doing that was your passion and dream. But I do hope you can find happiness in being true to yourself and what you value. It takes great courage to make a change, especially a painful one and we have to take risks and experiment sometimes to discover who we truly are. Even if there isn't a way for you to have horses in your life and feel "right", there is without question something else that will give you the joy and direction you've been missing. You are not a one trick pony!

The world we live in is insanely savage in every corner. I really don't know that what I think is right and wrong matters at all. I'm quite certain my personal successes and failures are meaningless on any scale larger than my immediate here and now.

In my experience, learning that right and wrong is all horribly relative, and that each individual alone truly is meaningless has been a part of growing up. Embracing that meaninglessness has been what has kept me sane. I'm a teacher at a school for at-risk (God I hate that term) youth. I might make a temporary difference in the life of 1 out of 100 kids. A permanent difference, 1 out of 1000. My horse, well, every interaction makes a difference in his future. I lease, not own, and I probably wouldn't buy this horse if offered, but I do want to make sure he has the best life possible. So, every single interaction does matter. Try to cherish what does matter and accept the fact that we are one of six billion on this earth. Ultimately, what we do does not matter. I know that sounds like strange advice to give to a depressive. I just give it from one depressive to another, knowing what helped me.

Isn't it strange how something that sounds so bleak can be comforting? I guess knowing the pain and confusion I often feel is totally insignificant is a comfort. I suppose depressives/neurotics generally think and behave like everything matters tremendously, which makes that great advice. I find it helpful to imagine the worst case scenario. As horribly bad as that might be, it's never worse than my fears and never history-worthy.

Remembering what is history-worthy (great term!) has also really helped me. In the past, did I come out of a bad situation hurt but essentially okay, eventually? Yes? Then I can do so again.

This quote has helped me get through some dark times. "Ours is essentially a tragic age, so we refuse to take it tragically.
The cataclysm has happened, we are among the ruins, we start to build up new little habitats, to have new little hopes. It is rather hard work: there is now no smooth road into the future: but we go round, or scramble over the obstacles. We've got to live, no matter how many skies have fallen." D.H. Lawrence.

Hi...I could talk DBT therapy with you. BPD here. Female ( i often find myself trying to read people on here as their gender, not that it really matters.) I have had many discussions about Marcia Linehan coming out as BPD herself. Sounds like i am writing in code or as if someone has missed a post)

I'm a true black and white thinker which is nearly impossible in situations like you encounter about being right or wrong. i have no problem seeing the gray area i just dont always agree with it. lol

i like to fix things. to me gray is more like a bandage, not fixing something. i'm weird.

how about throwing out a generic version of one of the situations you are frustrated with? it might be fun to get others take on it. i'm good at finding humor in wrong things.

i know this isn't a drug thread, just throwing this out there: lamictal....keeps the highs and lows more balanced.

I am concerned about your statement that medication is not an option. If you entertain suicidal thoughts at times.....they would surely help. .

Ehhhh....actually not necessarily a good idea. In fact quite possibly a terrible one for anyone who actually HAS suicidal tendencies, as often the only thing an antidepressant will do is give the taker *just* enough motivation to go through with it instead of just think about it.

Honestly, the only effective system I have EVER discovered for ANY life issue is Stoicism. Not the adjective, the actual philosophical systems (see Cicero, Epictetus, etc). At the heart of it is knowing that you can only control what you can control. Sometimes that isn't even your own body and mind, never mind anything beyond it. You pick what you can control, and deal with that. I currently cannot control that the only job I can find is not only culinary, which I didn't want to go back to, on the line, the one area of cooking I wasn't interested in. I can't even control that my legs and back hurt while working. So I accept I can't change any of that for now and get on with it.

You can't change other people. There's no point in attempting to or trying. You can't worry about the suffering of every horse you ever encounter, especially when some of the things on the list there aren't really suffering in any meaningful way. Control what you can control and stop thinking about anything else.

I don't have any real use for 'expressing your feelings to others', be it anger, sadness, desire to correct, etc. Here's the truth: they don't care and don't want to hear it, and you're just annoying them. Goes for any situation, not just horses. Unless you're somehow in a formal chain of command over them (you're their boss, superior officer, whatever) you're just going to get on their nerves and make most people MORE likely to ignore you. Do your own thing and if people observe it and change their behavior, great, if not, there's nothing you can do about it.

Ehhhh....actually not necessarily a good idea. In fact quite possibly a terrible one for anyone who actually HAS suicidal tendencies, as often the only thing an antidepressant will do is give the taker *just* enough motivation to go through with it instead of just think about it.

True during the initial period of starting up the antidepressant but not generally true overall, IF the patient is following up with the doctor and adjusting medication as needed.

Also true that only about 50% of patients are helped by antidepressants. No doubt there are different causes and meds only help with some causes but not all.

You are not alone. Depression is anger turned inward. When disabled with depression do one good thing for you and one that life requires in that one day.

Our thoughts feed our depression. I would not want anyone else running my thoughts but if they are going to hurt me I can change them. When ugly thoughts, self defeating thoughts and all other thoughts that cause me and my emotions distress I repeat endlessly "Let it go!". I make the conscious now defeat the ugliness.

I had to learn this to cope with losing some of the use of my arms and chronic pain. I made it a habit. I do not attack myself. THere are plenty of folks available to do that. Amazingly so.

I feed my spirit. I give myself permission to be who I am, exactly as I am right now. I do not ask others for their opinion of me. THey can keep that to themselves.

THe horse world is full of people that know little or nothing about horses, yet they own them. I have learned to walk away and spend time with these incredible creatures, sometimes just smelling their fur. Everything you said is true. I make a note and I do my best to move on and away from foolish negative people.

I have God, it helps. With God I have no need to even attempt to control everything. Rather practical really if one doesn't get carried away with THAT as well. You might want to hold off on finding God at the moment, people are even uglier about God than horses!

Take baby steps. Celebrate your ability and awareness. Appreciate who you are and know that you have purpose even if you never get to see it. Let each day matter to you. Smile at people. Appreciate them once you can appreciate you.

It is what it is. Breathe. Learn to breathe better. Explore life as it is not as what you think it is until you can change what you think.

“Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.”
? Albert Einstein

Seems pretty clear to me -- you make it sound as though if people still gave helpful advice, as they did years ago, there would be no need for antidepressants, or that antidepressants replace helpful advice. Even if you didn't mean either of those things, many people with depression are not surrounded by helpful people, quite the opposite. Not now or in the good old days.

I asked the OP if she'd read The Depression Cure because it focuses on methods that combat depression that do not include meds. Such as making sure you get enough omega 3s, vitamin D, etc.

No, I didn't make it sound like anything and it may be clear to YOU but not to me. I am NOT passive aggressive in the least. If I want to say something I will. You need to own this nonsense or give it to someone else.

I stated a simple fact. YOU ran with it.

I would really enjoy watching you go after someone else. I have no idea why you keep coming up with things that I didn't think, let alone type, on this thread and elsewhere.

“Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.”
? Albert Einstein

Ehhhh....actually not necessarily a good idea. In fact quite possibly a terrible one for anyone who actually HAS suicidal tendencies, as often the only thing an antidepressant will do is give the taker *just* enough motivation to go through with it instead of just think about it.

Honestly, the only effective system I have EVER discovered for ANY life issue is Stoicism. Not the adjective, the actual philosophical systems (see Cicero, Epictetus, etc). At the heart of it is knowing that you can only control what you can control. Sometimes that isn't even your own body and mind, never mind anything beyond it. You pick what you can control, and deal with that. I currently cannot control that the only job I can find is not only culinary, which I didn't want to go back to, on the line, the one area of cooking I wasn't interested in. I can't even control that my legs and back hurt while working. So I accept I can't change any of that for now and get on with it.

You can't change other people. There's no point in attempting to or trying. You can't worry about the suffering of every horse you ever encounter, especially when some of the things on the list there aren't really suffering in any meaningful way. Control what you can control and stop thinking about anything else.

I don't have any real use for 'expressing your feelings to others', be it anger, sadness, desire to correct, etc. Here's the truth: they don't care and don't want to hear it, and you're just annoying them. Goes for any situation, not just horses. Unless you're somehow in a formal chain of command over them (you're their boss, superior officer, whatever) you're just going to get on their nerves and make most people MORE likely to ignore you. Do your own thing and if people observe it and change their behavior, great, if not, there's nothing you can do about it.

This is very cynical and not even accurate. We all can change, yes, some refuse to do so, and today people love to wallow in their own problems/fantasies and use all kinds of avoidance and denial mechanisms to try and cope. To shut off from humanity is not only obscene it is by it's very nature a compulstion towards insanity. To seek respite and restore the life batteries, I work to listen to one very complex classical piece of music per day, next month we are going to hear Andras Schiff play in Seattle, if the OP would like to come we (my husband and I) are of the same type as you in terms of the understanding that we are living in a Dark Age due to a profound lack of classical beauty, the blind terrorism being played against us, the defeat of our political parties through association only through simple minded partisan politics and the lack of a clear mission as a country in terms of what our founding fathers thought for this great project of a republic, is what keeps me centered. The fight is the same, to find a mission, to battle for the truth, and not to give in to the cynicism and sick defeatism of the time.

There are many people called, few are chosen but those chosen few who decide to continue on with the fight for civilizaton are the rock around which a new and better Renaissance can and must form. Never surrender your own inner light, on the other hand, there is a jewel of wisdom that I love which is from the good book, the caution has to do with throwing pearls before swine. I keep that in mind when I find myself wasting breath with folks who do not truly want to be, or have forgotten how to be, human. Human society needs leaders, not followers, do gooders and certainly not egoists out to play to the crowd. What we do need is to become better as human beings.

"When written in Chinese, the word "crisis" is composed of two characters, one represents danger, the other represents opportunity."

Hi...I could talk DBT therapy with you. BPD here. Female ( i often find myself trying to read people on here as their gender, not that it really matters.) I have had many discussions about Marcia Linehan coming out as BPD herself. Sounds like i am writing in code or as if someone has missed a post)

I'm a true black and white thinker which is nearly impossible in situations like you encounter about being right or wrong. i have no problem seeing the gray area i just dont always agree with it. lol

i like to fix things. to me gray is more like a bandage, not fixing something. i'm weird.

how about throwing out a generic version of one of the situations you are frustrated with? it might be fun to get others take on it. i'm good at finding humor in wrong things.

i know this isn't a drug thread, just throwing this out there: lamictal....keeps the highs and lows more balanced.

my favorite quote....wherever you go there you are. j

Marcia Linehan videos are hilarious. God bless 'em. I'm not borderline, just lucky enough to have had an HMO plan that provided good mental health care and several therapists who utilized DBT. I definitely have some BPD traits; there's just so much overlap.

I'll think about a scenario to share. Although in the end it all comes down to accepting or changing and knowing the difference.

Honestly, the only effective system I have EVER discovered for ANY life issue is Stoicism. Not the adjective, the actual philosophical systems (see Cicero, Epictetus, etc). At the heart of it is knowing that you can only control what you can control. Sometimes that isn't even your own body and mind, never mind anything beyond it. You pick what you can control, and deal with that. I currently cannot control that the only job I can find is not only culinary, which I didn't want to go back to, on the line, the one area of cooking I wasn't interested in. I can't even control that my legs and back hurt while working. So I accept I can't change any of that for now and get on with it.

You can't change other people. There's no point in attempting to or trying. You can't worry about the suffering of every horse you ever encounter, especially when some of the things on the list there aren't really suffering in any meaningful way. Control what you can control and stop thinking about anything else.

I don't have any real use for 'expressing your feelings to others', be it anger, sadness, desire to correct, etc. Here's the truth: they don't care and don't want to hear it, and you're just annoying them. Goes for any situation, not just horses. Unless you're somehow in a formal chain of command over them (you're their boss, superior officer, whatever) you're just going to get on their nerves and make most people MORE likely to ignore you. Do your own thing and if people observe it and change their behavior, great, if not, there's nothing you can do about it.

All I know about Philosophy I learned from Plato and a Platypus Walk into a Bar. Stoicism = you too can be un-unhappy I essentially appreciate your point of view and definitely think it has merit. I think it's probably useful for moody people to practice being very intentional about how and to whom they express their feelings. In general, I need to do any and all things which lower the intensity of my emotions.

On the other hand, I actually do care how the people around me are feeling (for the most part, most of the time ) and feel much more comfortable when it is shared with me. What I don't like it when those feelings negatively affect work or home life, etc. Like, I absolutely want to know if my coworker is feeling tragic because her boyfriend broke up with her last night, and I want to give her a big hug. But I still want her to be basically pleasant and do her job. I've also read, and believe, that over time "stuffing" feelings and having them invalidated regularly, especially by important people is a major, if not THE major cause of mood disorders in the first place.