Posted
by
CmdrTaco
on Thursday December 09, 2010 @11:56AM
from the moral-victory dept.

DaveNJ1987 writes "The Chinese Government has blocked the websites of the BBC, CNN and Norwegian public service broadcaster NRK, less than 24 hours before dissident Chinese writer Liu Xiaobo is due to be awarded the Nobel peace prize. China has been vocally critical of the plans to award the jailed writer the prize and has even gone as far as setting up its own 'Confucius peace prize' to rival the awards being held in Oslo tomorrow."

Stop being so heavy-handed and obvious. Take a page from the CIA playbook. If you *really* want to discredit Liu Xiaobo, just recruit a couple of women to say he raped them (or some kids to say he molested them, or an old lady to say he beat her, something along those lines). Easy, subtle, and no need to censor CNN. And what's really great is that it works even if he's in another country (if you can recruit locals there, even better!). Pretty soon the Nobel people are backing away from him, Visa won't process donations for his cause, everybody is calling him a rapist/child-molester/wife-beater. And you get to say "Hey, wasn't us, that's his own personal problems" if anyone asks. Now no one will touch him and you didn't have to *directly* come down on anyone.

Just make sure your recruits look credible and pay them/threaten them enough to make sure they never talk.

I imagine that if I were a Chinese citizen, and some of the big foreign news websites were all-of-a-sudden firewalled, I would be extremely suspicious that negative press about China was just about to come out. That would motivate me to look harder for the information that is being blocked.

If you were a Chinese citizen, you'd be so used to the idea, it wouldn't even make you flinch.
I visited China during the run up to the 2008 Olympics. I was watching CNN international. The reporter started talking about China's "increased tranpsarency to the press" or whatever term they were using then. The screen went black for about 2 minutes. When the picture came back, the reporter was done. This happened several times over the 2 weeks I was there. I was dumbfounded.
It's just a way of life. The Chinese just shrug their shoulders and go on.

I think an even stronger illustration of the situation in China is the recent statement in the Western media Wen Jiabao himself made about how important a free press was in a civilized society (or like that, I'm paraphrasing, I don't recall the exact quote), and Chinese news services suppressed THAT. And we're talking the premier for the entire country here.

Since "rape" was actually "consensual but unprotected sex," they just need to come up with a more frightening name than "inciting subversion of state power." Call him a terrorist and they'll have half the U.S. on their side.

Sure. Could just be that he spent 39 years not being a rapist only to begin his rapist career a couple of weeks after releasing a huge stash of classified materials that embarrassed the most powerful government in the world.

Of course, Liu Xiaobo could have spent 54 years not being caught for molesting children, only to have his victims finally come forward around the same time he is to accept the Nobel Prize. No need for any conspiracy theories here. Maybe we should consider that he really *is* a child mole

Sure. Could just be that he spent 39 years not being a rapist only to begin his rapist career a couple of weeks after releasing a huge stash of classified materials that embarrassed the most powerful government in the world.

It could be, yes. Power does go to people's heads, after all. Did you know 70% of all rapes go unreported? Could just be the first time someone spoke up.

Of course, Liu Xiaobo could have spent 54 years not being caught for molesting children, only to have his victims finally come forward around the same time he is to accept the Nobel Prize.

I'm sure as far as you're concerned, China and the US are on the same level as far as governance go, despite the very documents that Assange is leaking providing overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

And how did they compile that statistic? For it to be accurate, you'd need every rape to be reported to the rape statistic collectors, and some proportion of those to be reported to the police. It's also interesting that you cite The Women's Center for the statistic, since the police statistics in the UK showed that rapes of men are less likely to be reported than rapes of women (admitting to having been raped is a lot more damaging to the male ego, apparently).

With all of the ridiculousness of how they decide that someone’s been raped, it’s not at all hard to believe. If you’re a woman and you get drunk and have sex with a drunk dude, you’ve been raped! If you’re a man and you get drunk and have sex with a drunk chick, you’re a rapist! The fact that neither of them feels like they were raped or a rapist (not to mention the double standard) is irrelevant... and they need to be re-educated to “properly” perceive what happened so that they can “deal with it”. Or something like that.

It never occurs to these people that maybe having drunk sex doesn’t scar you emotionally like actual rape does and that people don’t need to “deal with it”.

They make mountains out of molehills... just because they think people need to climb a mountain to get over it. Oh, and it might also be partly because they make money by helping people climb mountains.

And don’t for a minute think that I’m trivializing real rape. They are doing that.

I knew a guy that used to brag about how he got girls drunk (usually girls that were dating his friends and felt safe with him) and would tag team them with his buddies. He was never reported by any of them woman. He made sure to make the experience so degrading they would never want it to be public.

Rape does not have to be violent to be scarring.

I make it a point (well I did when I was single) to never sleep with a girl that needed to be drunk in order to have sex. I know better than to set myself up a

I don’t doubt that douchebags like that exist or that the experience is emotionally damaging. I just can’t stand the way things which were obviously neither rape nor emotionally damaging are placed on that same level as if they were.

Did you know 70% of all rapes go unreported? Could just be the first time someone spoke up.

Since unreported rapes are UNREPORTED there is no scientific way to know what the actual percentage is so I'll say it's 10%. Just as valid as your 70%.

I also hear 50 of all murders, 80% of all thefts and 99% of all Justin Bieber bashing go unreported.

FYI, he is charged with "consensual, unprotected sex", he allegedly refused to wear a condom, which may be illegal in Sweden which has the strictest sexual assault laws but wouldn't even get past the sniff test in most other countries let alone justify an INTE

Is anyone even remotely willing to acknowledge the slightest possibility that Assange may be, in fact, a scumbag, and that raping women is just something that scumbags do?

I'm willing to acknowledge the possibility... but, these allegations, er, allegedly came about after the two women met up with one another and realized they'd both had unprotected sex with him and wanted him to get tested for STDs. The women (again, allegedly) didn't want him prosecuted.

I seriously question if Interpol and the whole world would have been notified of this if this was anybody else.

Are you willing to accept that the whole thing has escalated beyond a point that would have happened under any other circumstances and that this wasn't rape?

Are you willing to accept that the whole thing has escalated beyond a point that would have happened under any other circumstances and that this wasn't rape?

I'm willing to acknowledge the possibility, yes. It's just interesting to me that people are willing to accept their own interpretations of events as fact. Assange could have shot three policemen unprovoked in broad daylight and people would still scream character assassination.

I'm willing to acknowledge the possibility, yes. It's just interesting to me that people are willing to accept their own interpretations of events as fact.

Huh? I've read probably 30 or 40 news stories trying to sift through what is being said by various sources on this one to try to get a handle on what is being reported. I'm not just sitting around saying "Oh, he did/didn't rape those women because that's what I want to believe".

I don't think the allegations are character assassination -- I think the wom

Indeed, he might have used them, but I haven't seen any credible reports to back the idea that it was even sexual assault. And the original prosecutor seemed to agree seeing as he didn't even bother to interview Assange when offered.

I did see reports that one of the women is a radical feminist, not sure what part, if any, that might have played in this whole thing. Radical feminists aren't exactly world renowned for their belief in fair play when it comes to men. It wouldn't surprise me at all if she wasn't

Sure, except I've heard many of the details on NPR and no one is accusing him of what we, in the US at least, call rape. There was no non-consensual sex. No woman is pressing any charges. A politician has charged him with having sex without a condom. The local government is only aware of the issue because 2 women were trying to track him down to have him tested for STDs, but he stayed off the grid to avoid governments tracking him.

Generally, when I'm trying to stay off the grid to avoid the police, I don't retain an attorney and offer to come in for questioning. But, hey, that's just me, he may have discovered a new way to go incognito.

If he truly feels threatened, he only has two options to avoid retaliation from governments: hiding or publicity. Now that he's getting so much attention it's probably safer to stay in jail while the lawyers fight over extradition.

So easy. Is anyone even remotely willing to acknowledge the slightest possibility that Assange may be, in fact, a scumbag, and that raping women is just something that scumbags do?

Yepp.

As a remote, slight possibility.

So far, what info I could find about the events and the women in question make it a lot more likely that two women learn their treasure fuck has also had someone else around the same time, and it's surprisingly common in those cases for the two "cheated" women to band together against the guy and get some revenge. I think anyone with a somewhat interesting sex history has seen it happen.

Rape victims that twitter their rape experience as a great night the day after are...

Let's put it that way, a LOT of things point towards this being a plot rather than him being a scumbag.

1. The accusations happen only a few days after his organization starts publishing secret documents that quite a few countries (or rather, the governments of a few countries) would love to see disappear.2. The accusations are from a woman affiliated with the CIA.3. She first bragged about her night with Assange on her twitter page, then desperately tried to erase it when she suddenly decided it was rape.4. Swedish authorities did not want to talk with him while he was still in Sweden, even though he offered repeatedly to come willingly on his own for questioning.5. Suddenly when he left Sweden, an international arrest warrant was issued, nearly instantly. This must have been the fastest IAW in history over a kinda-sorta-serious allegation of maybe-rape. For varying degrees of rape, since I know no country aside of Sweden where fucking without a condom can be considered rape. Sidenote: Usually, if you try to get an IAW for something that is not a crime in at least most of the countries involved, don't bother trying. You won't get one. No chance, no way.

The whole "rape" charge hinges on two feminists who fucked with Assange, not knowing that the other one fucked him too, then both got pissed when they found out that he fucked both of them and retaliated by calling it rape. Usually, as soon as a state attorney gets wind of such a "two dumped bitches" gambit, he drops the case faster than Assange dropped the bitches. Because he knows that any lawyer worth his salt will whack him left and right if he dares to pull something like this to court. But suddenly this is worth getting an international arrest warrant.

In case someone here does not know the hassle normally involved in getting an IAW: It took me and our state law enforcement agency two weeks and a LOT of convincing paperwork to get a IAW for a person who we could PROVE was involved in fraud, extortion and blackmail, with a damage exceeding a million Euros. And here an IAW is suddenly pulled out of someone's ass for a kinda-sorta allegation of rape.

Sorry, but believing that this is "real" gets harder by the nanosecond.

Sure, anything is possible. However, the (literally endless) possibilities of what happened are not subject to debate. What is probable IS subject to debate.

Then it simply comes down to what is more probable. Is it more probable that Assange is a scumbag that committed a sex crime, or that the supposed victims are scumbags trying to take him down for whatever reason? Only an objective look at some of the facts surrounding the case is going to lend probability to either theory.

So, just to be clear, I do not want to sound like a Chinese sympathizer or proponent but from the article:

In protest, the Chinese Government has set up its own rival awards ceremony to the Nobel prize; the "Confucius peace prize".

I would wait a bit before that's confirmed. The only news in English I can find on it seems to indicate it doesn't exist [focustaiwan.tw] or at least wasn't given to the recipient reported by the Associated Press. Those guys aren't often wrong but this sounds like a satire or problem in translation.

I'm an American. And I'll tell you that Team America World Police was a documentary! We've got a lot of screwed up shitheads voting for long-legged, big-boobed dingbats and tea bagger idiots here, so give us a break. Stupid people breed faster than smart ones. We need to reverse the helmet and seatbelt laws and let "nature" take its course. Our leaders are not our best and brightest, they are our loudest and greediest. Thank goodness for Wikileaks to point a spotlight into the shithole that is our govern

It took 2 seconds for some idiot to turn this into an America Haters thread. Figures. If you're an American, your an idiot. Lets stick to the topic, shall we? Or will you also blame China's internment of Tibet on America too?

Considering other international 'bullies' throughout history, I tend to think the world has gotten off pretty lightly since WWII. Given historical behavior of other bullies (most notably Britain and other European nations), America's policies probably aren't all that different from how, say, Britain would probably still be acting if it were still the 'British Empire'. We westerners have a bad habit of behaving badly outside our borders. Luckily (?), it's starting to turn inwards as well, and we're taking

I'm working on fixing the US. Let the people of China fix their own damn country. They can start by lynching a few politicians. A tank can only run over so many protesters before the meat gums up the machinery.

I wouldn't mind if Cox blocked crappy places like Fox News and maybe Lifetime Channel's website. Maybe block a few "how to tell if your man is cheating on you websites" and we can call it a day.You mean you haven't learned how to erase your browser history? Or gotten a second sim card?

For all the things China blames other countries for doing, China still is more totalitarian. They oppose the Pope since it takes away control from China, and they oppose the Nobel for it making China look bad. Normally, countries like the US take it in stride.

So much for Deng's whitewash of government action by simply acting as a guard for semi-private entities.

We, the sophisticated western people would never do such a thing. Take a web site like that nasty wikileaks that is publishing our diplomatic small talk. We would never ever dream of kicking them from their hosters, cancel their bank accounts, block/ddos their web sites or imprison their founder.

If all the major internet routing hubs outside China started dropping packets coming from or going to Chinese IP addresses, I wonder how long it would take for the Chinese government to be on its knees begging for another chance? More significantly, I wonder how long it would take before the Chinese people would finally rise and demand that their government act like a civilized part of the internet community?

It would probably be at least as effective as those stupid “internet addiction” camps th

I was wondering what it'd take for the same people who yell "censorship!" whenever someone proposes to restrict traffic for political, copyright or other legal reasons to come around with their own version of it.

Not routing to China is censorship based on political views, plain and simple.

China's government can't take the criticism, so they go about their totalitarian ways and shut it off.

Nobody's been disappeared, executed, or harvested for organs in the US for the Wikileaks events. All those involved have more than the show trials that China gives often, and are not simply removed from existence.

The CNN homepage doesn’t pass the keyword filter correctly because the Chinese government firewall detects the keyword and starts dropping packets into a black hole.

But that’s just peanuts. Explain this...

When Liu was named the peace prize winner two months ago, initial reports were blacked out on CNN, BBC and French satellite channel TV5, while the state network China Central Television did not report on the prize.

“Mysterious corruption of the video feeds prevented the reports from getting through, but any other CNN reports got through just fine!”

Yeah, it’s obviously not a problem with the infrastructure. It must be CNN’s fault.

The video scrambling happens all the time. Cities in South China often provide Hong Kong channels in the cable feeds. When something sensitive is mentioned during the news you'll suddenly see a few minutes of the CCTV feed until the item is finished.

They’re not blocking the CNN website in its entirety, per se, there just appears to be something on the homepage that triggers the connection killswitch on the Chinese government’s firewall. But they’re still basically blocking it.

Liu Xiaobo was a nobody, just one more dissident activist who wrote some pretty crazy stuff. Nobody outside of dissident circles gave a crap about Charter 08 or even heard of it before it got banned.

Xiaobo himself: He's crazy as far as dissidents go. He basically worships everything Western, and has basically advocated China becoming a Western colony. Noone inside of China would take most of his stuff seriously- yet China insists of giving him credibility as a dissident. He'd still be a nobody if they didn't give him so much publicity.

With this, he'll turn into another Dalai Lama, except that unlike the Dalai Lama, he (was) just a nobody convinced that everything Western is good and everything Chinese is bad. If they had just left Charter 08 alone, no problems, it would have been passed around to the usual crowd and quickly forgotten. Instead it has become a rallying point.

Sort of like the "My dad is Li Gang" stuff- instead of censoring the story, if they just let it out and then publicly castrated the fucker, everyone would have been happy.

They really need help with PR. Even when they do the right thing, hushing things up makes it look like they really are up to something. Even when the guy in question really does deserve to be imprisoned (under Chinese law, even if such laws are unjust).

It applies in China as well- though only among a subset of the population, though still a much larger subset than would have been reached otherwise. For example. my friends on Chinese college campuses have been talking quite a bit about Charter 08 and Liu Xiaobo- almost purely as a result of censorship attempts.

As bad as the Chinese government's actions look to outsiders, we have to remember that ultimately all politics is local. The Chinese government doesn't care what we think only with staying in power at home. And how do you do that? By making sure that nothing riles up the billion plus Chinese citizens most of whom probably don't care much about foreign news outlets or peace prizes anyway. So why get them thinking about stuff like that which doesn't make money and can only cause disharmony?
As for a Chinese

Not me. I'd be wondering why I live in a shithole and the government makes a ton of money off my hard work... I'd probably just jump off the Foxconn building. I wouldn't be the first or last to pick death over living like a slave. Ask the people of Tibet, or the protesters at Tienanmen Square what they think about China? At least in the US I can call my government on their actions, Gitmo, Wikileaks, all of it. I'm free to say that's wrong and do something about it. In China you just smile and take it,

"if I was a citizen of Shanghai or another wealthy city in China, it would fill me with a certain amount of pride to know that almost every economy on the planet depends on how well that country is doing,"

Sure. but during the cultural revolution you'd be told to feel that pride at the point of an AK-47. And probably get shot anyway. Yep, China's come a long way. Hey! Remember that 5 year plan that brilliant strategist Mao came up with to get everyone making steel in their back yards to get China modernized? Whatever happened with that? Oh yeah, millions of people starved to death because they stopped farming to make steel. What did China get? Tons of crappy, useless steel. Yeah, China knows what's best for e

Well, if you knew more details you'd know that this story involves them also "persuading" at least 18 other countries not to attend the presentation, and not letting the man's relatives collect the prize for him etc. It's more than just them censoring things in their own country this time. This is just an update on that story.

It would be funny if it wasn't affecting so many peoples' lives. At least our own governments try to make their lies plausible and their political maneuvers relatively subtle.

"The Great Firewall is a way of life there, so just get over it and save your righteous indignation for something else."

Yeah, speaking out against censorship is just a big waste of time, making political speech a government doesn't like a jail-able offense is no big deal, gunning down thousands of your own people when they protest is just a normal day in China, brutally suppressing an entire culture or two because your own Han people need "Lebensraum" is fine. No one should really give a shit about what China does. Its fine.

That's an interesting point. Much like what would Jesus think of the modern organized religions and the feuding between them.

I would think that with the importance east asia places on philosophy, that they wouldn't be so easily swayed by censorship. I suppose that they are no more immune to their media, and the subtle brainwashing that goes with it, than we are to ours.