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Your thoughts about the Unova saga? SPOILERS

This is a thread to discuss any of the following topics regarding Ash's trip through Unova.

What did you like about it? What didn't you like?
How did you feel about the characters and their pokemon?
What did you think of the tournament arcs? The Meloetta arc? The N arc?
How do you think the DA arc will turn out? (We now know it's nothing but extremely lame spoilers that will go nowhere until X and Y)
Think Ash will do as he always does, and dump off most of his pokemon?
If you could make changes, what would they be?

SO FAR, I liked that how Best Wishes managed to break traditions such as Ash capturing more than 6 Pokemon while obtaining his first Rock-type (Boldore) and Dark type (Scraggy/Krookodile) and not having TRio to appear in EVERY episode despite there are others who prefers the old TRio which i don't mind. Filler episodes have gotten alot more entertaining than previous sagas (AG/DP) imo. There's also more humor when it comes to the trainers and their Pokemon which scores alot of awesome points and the tournament arcs are my favorite of episodes b/c of interactions between rivals. I also liked on how the league turned out, it was okay to me and I'm willing to bet that the writers wanted to shaken up a bit on the traditions of every league.

My least favorite part of the saga was

- Trip spamming both Conkeldurr and Serperior
- Ash's Pokemon who evolved to defeat the opponent
- Meloetta Arc, it felt meh...and didn't really liven up to the whole TR's greatest plan also I found the butler to be more entertaining than Meloetta for some reason.xP

As for the N arc...I didn't seen them all yet but I'm aware of *SPOILERS*

SO FAR, I liked that how Best Wishes managed to break traditions such as Ash capturing more than 6 Pokemon while obtaining his first Rock-type (Boldore) and Dark type (Scraggy/Krookodile) and not having TRio to appear in EVERY episode despite there are others who prefers the old TRio which i don't mind. Filler episodes have gotten alot more entertaining than previous sagas (AG/DP) imo.

I agree. Even though the writers did a bad job with the development of his other pokemon in this saga, doesn't mean he should never catch more than six pokemon ever again.

My least favorite part of the saga was

- Trip spamming both Conkeldurr and Serperior

Conkelurr wasn't really spammed compared to how Serperior was. It only battled against Bianca's McRib sandwich and lost. I wouldn't have mind seeing it battle again but we never did.

Ash's Pokemon who evolved the to defeat opponent

I agree but he would have lost most of his gymbattes as well as the Don battles if it wasn't for that. Since the series was rushed, there was no real time to train unlike before. And people were already mad at Ash, so him being a complete loser in all his battles will have cause worse backlash.

BWS1- Good. Brought back the feeling of newness the show desperately needed after the mind-numbingly boring (and IMO, overrated) DP series. 8/10
BWS2- Awful. Terrible league, average cameo, poor use of Pokemon and chemistry was average. 5/10
BWS2: Episode N- Great. Ending was lackluster, but for the most part solid and fun. 9/10
BWS2: Da!- N/A.

Well...Liked
I liked that Ash caught more pokemon than he usually does.
I liked the mini tournaments as they were a much better way to showcase new pokemon without having to resort to devoting entire episodes to CotD's and their pokemon.
I liked Bianca. Some dismissed her as nothing more than a ditzy girl stereotype, but those people just refuse to accept that those kinds of girls do exist. She was a decent trainer, and the writers resisted lumping her with pokemon that are seen as "girly" (would've like to have seen her with a Munna though)
I liked Stephan. He was a bit like Morrison from Hoenn only more developed and less annoying.
I liked that Ash, Iris and Cilan were allowed to battle each others' rivals, and that those rivals were allowed to battle each other as well.
I liked having less of Team Rocket in every single freakin' episode. I've had just about enough of cutting away from an important battle just to see what the TRio were up to.
I liked Georgia, Burgundy and Luke. They added an extra layer to it all. And Virgil was fun too.
I liked Krookodile, Leavanny, Boldore, Snivy, Palpitoad and Pignite (except for one little thing).
I liked that Charizard came back.
I liked that Pikachu got a new move (though I hated that he lost Volt Tackle to do it. We need to be able to teach are pokemon more than four moves now.)

Disliked
I did not like Trip. He was a non character that was a partial rip off of Paul from the get-go. In his earlier appearances I just wanted Ash to call Prof Oak to get hold of Charizard, Snorlax, Heracross, Sceptile, Infernape and Gliscor, use them to pound Trip's pokemon into the ground and then say "THAT'S how we do it in the 'boonies' (whatever that actually means. Is it an Americanism?) I think the writers knew that they made a mistake with Trip and thats why he appeared less and less, and only two of his pokemon were really showcased.
I did not like the battle with Roxie. On the one hand it looked kind of cool, but on the other hand it was a clear look at how ill-prepared for the Unova league tournament Ash was.
I did not like Cameron. He was a non-character and the fact that he only brought five pokemon to a six-on-six match and still defeated Ash was just awful (though I can't decide whether that was a bigger slap in the face than Tobias's legendary pokemon or not)
I did not like Oshawott. His constantly appearing out of his pokeball was not amusing like it was for Misty's Psyduck. He was weak and pathetic. And his learning Hydro Pump just devalued the move in my opinion. A move like that is for fully evolved pokemon, of for those who earn it, like Ash's Squirtle did. Palpitoad also deserved it. Oshawott? No.
I did not like that Iris caught a Dragonite. Up until that point they had a reputation of only being owned by those who are strong enough to rightfully do so (Lance, Oak, Palmer, Drake, etc.) That Iris catches one, fully evolved, just cheapens it. Was Druddigon too hard for the animators to draw on a regular basis?
I did not like two of Charizard's new moves. Dragon Tail was okay, but Slash and Wing Attack? WTF? Steel Wing was fine, and they could have just updated Seismic Toss to Sky Drop. No one would have complained.
I did not like that Tepig learned Flamethrower. After years of Ash's fire types churning out the same move, Tepig managed to avoid it for so long only to let me down. At least the water types in the anime switch it about.
I did not like that Bianca, Stephan and Georgia only got three pokemon each. As I said above, I really wanted Bianca to have Munna or Musharna, and maybe Lilligant or Whimsicott. And after the introduction of B2W2, I was kind of hoping that Stephan would have a Golduck, as I thought that it suited him. And Georgia could have had a Sealeo or something.
I did not like how little development Iris got. From the moment I saw her champion team in B2W2 I was hoping for her to get a Lapras in the anime. Not only would it have been an good tribute to the games, but also would have been a good character development moment for her, helping to ease her fear of Ice types (I know Ash already had a Lapras, but that didn't stop May from getting Bulbasaur and Squirtle, Dawn from getting Quilava and Barry and Conway getting Heracross)
I did not like that only one of the three elemental monkeys was part of the cast. Don't get me wrong, Cilan was alright as the third member of the lead trio, but I would have preferred someone who had all three monkeys, just so they all got good screen time, like they do with the starters.
I did not like that Ash still does not have a ghost or psychic type. I would add steel type as well, but there really wasn't a Unova-introduced steel type that I could see him owning.
I did not like how the TR storyline ended, nor did I like how the TP storyline ended.
I did not like that they chose to not include the World Tournament properly. What a great chance to bring all past gym leaders (especially Misty) back, and they didn't take it. That is one particular aspect of the games that the anime should have seized with both hands and milked for all it was worth!

It's kind of hard to rate Best Wishes. It did a lot of new things. Some things turned out amazing, some things turned out bad.

Some of the filler was great because they didn't have Team Rocket as a plot device for the majority of episodes in season 1 and 2. Notable exceptions being things like Cottonee in Love, which was just bad. Team Rocket having the competence to pose any sort of threat to Team Plasma was good too, but they were devoid of personality so their big arcs before the Pokémon League weren't all that great. Episode N managed to find a pretty good sweet spot, though their personalities should be leaning over to the comedy side a bit more. Personally I'd prefer a DP-like TRio who only appear in episodes where they're part of the main plot. Keep them away from kidnapping COTD Pokémon. We'll appreciate them more having not seen them in a week or two.

Trip should have just not been in the show. Awful rival. The writers knew it too when they wouldn't give him more than a 1-on-1 in season 2. His other rivals (Stephan, Bianca and Cameron) were fun though and maybe should have appeared more frequently instead of Trip.

I liked that Ash had more than 6 Pokémon. It's nice to have that balance of cuter and stronger Pokémon. Screen time and development was good and bad. Palpitoad for example was pretty alright; he was pretty much supposed to be Ash's strategic weapon that he uses as needed. He didn't really need any additional screen time, as much as I love the guy. Snivy on the other hand was a completely static character that got zero development, which is bad for a character that's supposed to appear frequently.

In terms of story, I loved the fast pacing of the first season. A year and a half is more than enough to tell a simple badge run story. Would have preferred it if Team Plasma and N were part of the plot though instead of Team Rocket. The second season should have been done a bit differently. Personally I would have switched the Pokémon League and Episode N around. Team plots aren't a post-game activity, they're a major plot thing. It may have made Ash's route through Unova a bit less random too if he got his eighth badge when he passes through Virbank City in Episode N. Then the Pokémon League could have been a bit longer since all it would have done is pushed some of Da's filler out.

Iris and Cilan should have been given more to do. They're great characters, especially Cilan, but they had no real goal. Nothing that gave them plot material at least. May and Dawn had contests to fill the gaps between Ash's major stories, the same thing should have happened in BW. Maybe there was less time for filler between Ash's stuff, but some variation still would have been nice.

All in all, Best Wishes is one of my favourites, and I hope the writers can identify the good aspects of their experimental ideas and ditch the bad ones for X and Y.

TBH I disliked Trip HOWEVER after the league I don't mind him at all. so I can rewatch older eps with him and be like "Oh he is cool". Best part of BW was how they broke away from tradition. My dislike was how it had less darker elements like DP had. Over all it has been a fun ride and the N arc looks fun. Still wonder who does N in the dub

There's a tyrant king with a reptile heart
And he's started a wave of crime now
From his ship high above he abducted my love
For the fourteenth or fifteenth time now

Honestly, as much as he regressed, I much preferred Ash's BW personality to his DP personality. He retains that element of childishness.

Pros:
-The return of the slapstick comedy/comedy in general from the original saga that I felt was lacking in DP.
-The idea of party rotation being used with Ash.
-Ash given a silly element of his personality again.
-The handling of Team Rocket in this saga. They didn't appear in every episode; their episodes with their big plots were exciting and gave them purpose again.
-The quality of the "fillers" in this saga were a lot better than in prior sagas (DP and Johto especially). There were quite a few "fillers" that I enjoyed and would actually watch again from BW.

Cons:
-Oshawott being reduced to nothing but a marketing technique instead of being given actual potential/development. You can balance both, writers.
-The handling of Ash's regression; he felt too stupid at times. Especially at the saga's beginning/Elesa's gym battle. It just felt like too much. I can understand making him goofy again, but the writers handled it poorly.
-The handling of Team Plasma. I would forgive them for the earthquake, but the Episode N saga was their opportunity to make it work and it was just extremely lackluster. They felt incredibly watered-down as villains and Ghetsis was reduced to nothing more than a generic "hologram" for most of the series and when he did make an appearance, there wasn't much excitement about it. Disappointing!
-The handling of Team Rocket post-Episode N I feel is going to revert them back to their "back every episode to cause trouble" idiotic selves if the first episode of DA! is any indication. What a shame.
-The starters. DP was a step in the right direction, the writers need to remember that the final forms of the starters are marketable too! Seriously.
-This leads into the League. Maybe it would've been more enjoyable if the writers didn't rush the crap out of it or give Ash such a terrible overall team to battle with.
-I loved the idea of the rotating team, but the writers did not do a good job with it. Reduce the number of captures or give them a better amount of focus. There was no excuse for how Unfezant, Leavanny, Boldore and Palpitoad have been treated. :\
-The rivals. None were particularly intimidating. The only memorable ones imo are going to be Cameron and Bianca, and not because they were intimidating either.
-Iris and Cilan's goals. The idea of them having side-goals and not major contest-esque goals was a good idea, but they were not developed enough/expanded on enough for me to care.
-Iris and Cilan in general. What started out as a great trio with good chemistry has slowly diminished and there just isn't a spark anymore. Their teams have been given lackluster development, their characters have started running in place honestly, and I just can't wait for them both to leave and start the XY saga with a new cast...

~ Overall, I've enjoyed quite a few aspects of the series, but it has disappointed me in a lot more ways than it's impressed me. I'd give it between a 4/10 and a 6/10, depending on my mood on any given day. There were quite a few great episodes throughout BW, but not enough to alleviate the series's grade overall.

I pretty much love everything about the Unova saga and dislike nothing. xD I love all of the Pokemon and characters. Iris and Cilan are two of my favorites. Oshawott is great comic relief and Axew is adorable. I'm really loving the N arc. I can't wait to see Ghetsis and Colress. Overall I'd give the Unova saga a 10/10.

Dislikes:
Oshawott's personality (It was exactly the same as piplup's?!)
The way Ash's team was handled
Skyla (I love her in the game, but hated her in the anime)
the humour (BW had hardly any humour at all)
The TRio (They are completely different)
Dawn's return (Dawn was so amazing in DP, but they completely change her personality in BW).
The storylines were SO predictable
Tepigs storyline was pretty much the same as chimchars
trip was so moody

-Iris and Cilan's goals. The idea of them having side-goals and not major contest-esque goals was a good idea, but they were not developed enough/expanded on enough for me to care.
-Iris and Cilan in general. What started out as a great trio with good chemistry has slowly diminished and there just isn't a spark anymore. Their teams have been given lackluster development, their characters have started running in place honestly, and I just can't wait for them both to leave and start the XY saga with a new cast...

Unfortunately this is a problem that was long ago discovered with Misty and Brock. As much as we liked the two of them, they never really did anything towards their goals. Sure, Misty caught s handfull of extra water types and took part in the whirl islands tournament, but beyond that no storyline at all was given to her desire to become a water type specialist.
And as for Brock, well he ultimately gave up on being a breeder right at the very end in favour of becoming a pokemon doctor, so what does that tell you?
They have tried again with Iris and Cilan, and it hasn't worked out well. Cilan as a pokemon connesieur (sp?) had its moments when it worked well, but the rest of the time it was inappropriate, resulting in him becoming a connesieur of just about everything else, making a joke out of it.
And as for Iris... well I'll put it this way, there was a time to be a dragon type specialist, and it wasn't Unova. It was Hoenn, home to Salamence, Altaria, Flygon and Kingdra, with Gyarados, Milotic and perhaps even Sceptile available to round things out nicely.
Iris's Axew just became a gimmick, like Piplup and Oshawott, and from the moment she got it I've felt like her owning a Dragonite somehow cheats the species, if that makes sence. Before Dragonite were exlusively owned by those who had earned it - Lance, Drake, Prof. Oak, Palmer... Iris did not deserve to own a Dragonite.

I did not like Oshawott. His constantly appearing out of his pokeball was not amusing like it was for Misty's Psyduck. He was weak and pathetic. And his learning Hydro Pump just devalued the move in my opinion. A move like that is for fully evolved pokemon, of for those who earn it, like Ash's Squirtle did.

You do realize that Squirtle randomly learned the move when he was in a tight spot, right? It was just another convenient scenario that was done to give Squirtle a victory. How is that any different from how Oshawott learned it? I don't understand the thinly-veiled Oshawott bashing.

I feel like its the second weakest saga since the Johto era, and I can't see it being remembered much years for now.

I think what people will remember most about it is Cilan.

After this series people won't remember him much, he harly did any thing the entire series. I wonder if hey'll even be able to make a cameo lke the girls do? If he goes back to his gym like I'm thinking thats a far place to come and visit Ash from, unless whatever Dento does at that time is close by to where Ash is the next region than maybe...Guess, I could see another tournament with Iris and Dento both getting the cameo they need and than gone from the series forever like all the past girl characters..

Ok, I think this thread is a little early since DA series just started but over all I'd say its my least favorite of the bunch..

Liked;

-Dento: Even though he didn't do much, I still enjoyed the character himself.
-Ash: Hes always my favorite though so.
-Ash getting more Pokemon than we are used to seeing him get.
-N
-The finale of episode N.
-Stephen V.S Ash in the league, maybe the only battle in the league that I liked.
-Meowth getting more of role.

Cons..So many..

-Going back and fourth with Team Rocket, serious or blast offs?? Pick one people!!
-How they changed so much with N's arc.
-Jessie/James not doing much.
-How little Dento did.
-Iris
-Your such a kid comment to Ash when Iris can be more of a kid herself at times yet no one ever calls her out on it, wish Ash did but.
-The rush of the league for no reason, DA looks fun but also filler like so its like, whats the point? The league may not have had many impressive rivals this time but they could have done things a lot better.
-Virgil: What the heck was the point of this guy? He didn't even fight Ash.
-Kid with an IQ of a rock beat Ash?? They could have let Ash lose to a better person, some one who knew what he or she was doing.

I'm sorry, I have too much so I just.

A close family member of mine died today, I put this in my sign as respect for him

-Your such a kid comment to Ash when Iris can be more of a kid herself at times yet no one ever calls her out on it, wish Ash did but.

Actually both Ash and Dento did once (or twice). Ash called her one in the Cheren epi, and called her one somewhere else (I didn't watch every epi in the beginning so idk which epi). Dento also called her a kid twice (in the Charizard epi and in the Cottonee epi). I think Langely did a couple of times too.

Likes:

-Dento
-Iris
-Colors
-Music

Dislikes:

-Some of the spacing
-Piplup and Oshawott
-Meloetta

What I was severely troubled and disappointed by:

-No Dento theme/Miyano Mamoru singing

Last edited by JennaJayfeather; 30th April 2013 at 12:33 AM.

“...This is a tricky problem, huh. I really, really want to see the other Heroes... and if it works out, I want to make friends with them! If I made friends with six Heroes, I’d be an awesome mage! We could even conquer the world!”