I watch the games too and what I saw in Ramsey is a QB with no confidence, no pocket presence, poor decision making and a penchant for turning the ball over. I hope he turns out to be a decent QB somewhere, but I think he's Gus Frerotte, a servicable sometime starter but a solid backup. That's really not bad, Frerotte has had a 10 year career and made millions of dollars.. No-one is feeling too sorry for him.

In Ramsey I saw a guy who tended to start slow and gain confidence and momentum as the game progressed. I'd hoped that it was an indicator of how his career would go here in DC. The part about not feeling sorry for him is true enough, most of these guys make more per year than I have so far in my life.

I watch the games too and what I saw in Ramsey is a QB with no confidence, no pocket presence, poor decision making and a penchant for turning the ball over. I hope he turns out to be a decent QB somewhere, but I think he's Gus Frerotte, a servicable sometime starter but a solid backup. That's really not bad, Frerotte has had a 10 year career and made millions of dollars.. No-one is feeling too sorry for him.

Suppose he had spent the last three years at USC. Do you think people would still be questioning his pocket presence?

Suppose he had spent the last two years at San Diego, with decent protection and LT and Antonio to throw to...do you think people would still be questioning his confidence?

Suppose he had spent four years throwing to a healthy Santana Moss...do you think his stats would have been so average?

Do you think Tom Brady would still be alive if he had played for Spurrier?

Look, I was one of the biggest Ramsey fans, especially after the beating he took w/ Spurrier. I was pissed when they signed Brunell. And even though he has a pretty bad 2004, really thought he gave us a better chance to win in 2005. I was one of the people calling for Brunells head in 2004. But he came out in 2005, played his ass off, frankly should have been concidered for comeback player of the year, or even pro-bowl(in place of Vick). If healthy, Brunell is very effective, as he proved. I hope Ramsey makes the pro-bowl every year, its just going to have to be with someone else. I do predict, if he is given a fair shot to play, he will be a successful NFL QB. Take the one year he was actually given the job (2003) his stats would have aproximately been 3200 yards 20TDs and 16 picks. Thats not great, but pretty good for a 2nd year QB, plus with all the beatings he took. Fact, we would not have won 10 games or 11 games with Ramsey. Everyone may be pissed by him throwing balls away, well that may have saved a lot of games. Our D is too damn good to do things like that. Why risk it when 8 out 10 times, they are going to give us the ball right back.

Suppose he had spent the last three years at USC. Do you think people would still be questioning his pocket presence?

Suppose he had spent the last two years at San Diego, with decent protection and LT and Antonio to throw to...do you think people would still be questioning his confidence?

Suppose he had spent four years throwing to a healthy Santana Moss...do you think his stats would have been so average?

Do you think Tom Brady would still be alive if he had played for Spurrier?

Honestly, I have no idea what would have happened if he was at USC or had LT and Antonio or a healthy Santana Moss or if Brady would still be alive if he played for Spurrier. I live in the actual world and Ramsey didn't step up and dominate when he played.

Some young qb have 'it' (Roethlisberger, Palmer, Simms, Brady) some respond to challenges (Brees), some are late bloomers (Green, Warner) and some seem to be missing something. I've been watching football for 30+ years and I don't claim to know everything but I have no reason to beleive that Ramsey will be successful (consistently leading his team to the postseason) as an NFL QB based on what I have seen. Could I be wrong? Certainly, but it's not going to happen here.

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Ramsey had plenty of chances. Don't forget that when Brunell first got here, Gibbs declared the 2004 preseason to be open competition for the two QBs. Ramsey did nothing but stink it up, and in the process gave every reason for Gibbs to doubt him.

Right. Ramsey performed so well after the preseason in '04 that Gibbs named Mark Brunell the starter. Subsequently, Brunell started the rest of the '05 season even after Ramsey was medically cleared to play after his neck injury in the opener against the Bears.

Right. Ramsey performed so well after the preseason in '04 that Gibbs named Mark Brunell the starter. Subsequently, Brunell started the rest of the '05 season even after Ramsey was medically cleared to play after his neck injury in the opener against the Bears.

So basically you're saying that the 50-60 snaps in the preseasons of 2004 and 2005 won the job for Brunell and the 16 games of 2004 regular season "fair and open competition" between the two QBs didn't carry much weight. Is that it?

Like others have said, if Campbell isn't starting by some point next season, I'll wonder why in the world we wasted a 1st round pick on him. I personally think if he isn't starting by the season opener, it will probably be 5-8 games into the season before Brunell gives way to him. I'm hoping both Brunell and Collins will help groom him for the job.

The QB situation is one that scares me right now. We have a veteran starter in Brunell and qb who knows saunders system in Collins and a second year player who hasnt taken a snap yet. Last year Brunell started great then as the season went on he started to wear down. So going into this season Brunell will probably be the starter and Campbell the backup and collins just here to help teach the system. If Brunell goes down i jsut dont feel comfortable with Campbell as a starter yet and collins has been a carrer backup. I just hope jason is hitting the books and hope to see him play in the preseaon when the first stringers are playing to see what he has,

I think Brunell being injured played a part in his stuggling, of course. Lets also remember that Portis was banged up at the end of the season, Randy Thomas was out, and Moss was pretty much our only WR. Brunell will start, I cant wait to see Campbell take over, but he needs to be ready and I dont see much need to rush him. With our sick new WR corps Brunell will be able to get rid of the ball much faster and there wont be nearly as much pressure on him.

NObody including Gibbs and staff know yet what the ranking of the QB's will be in 06. It would be stupid for them to say anything in March. Who the hell cares what some journalism major is saying in the press in March.
Let training camp and preseason happen then rank them. No more premature 1/4backcation please.
Also NOBODY knows if Campbell is ready or will be ready in August. We will see said the blind man.

Regarding Ramsey:
I remember a TV interview with Gibbs when he first came back to the Redskins. He said he spent a month doing nothing but looking at the previous seasons tape to grade the Spurrier players. One of the first moves he did was get Brunnell and told him he had a great chance to be the starter. Gibbs always had doubts about Ramsey. It is nothing personal, it is just some flaw in ramseys game and this at a very important position.
It is not that Gibbs loves Brunnell so much or thinks he is the 'answer', after all Gibbs drafted a QB in the first round the very next year.
The Ramsey fans should not get their panty's in a bunch if a hall of fame coach does not like a certain player unproven player that can't turn it around in four years..

Regarding Ramsey:
I remember a TV interview with Gibbs when he first came back to the Redskins. He said he spent a month doing nothing but looking at the previous seasons tape to grade the Spurrier players. One of the first moves he did was get Brunnell and told him he had a great chance to be the starter. Gibbs always had doubts about Ramsey. It is nothing personal, it is some flaw in ramseys game and this at a very important position.
The Ramsey fans should not get their panty's in a bunch if a hall of fame coach does not like a certain player.

And don't forget the year before Bugel was with the team for a little bit as a "consultant" So I'm sure he got a chance to watch Ramsey up close and offer his input to Gibbs as well

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Regarding Ramsey: I remember a TV interview with Gibbs when he first came back to the Redskins. He said he spent a month doing nothing but looking at the previous seasons tape to grade the Spurrier players. One of the first moves he did was get Brunnell and told him he had a great chance to be the starter. Gibbs always had doubts about Ramsey. It is nothing personal, it is just some flaw in ramseys game and this at a very important position..

It's not as though you're revealing a state secret. Many of us knew that Ramsey's days were numbered when we found out how much they were paying Brunell.

It doesn't take a football genius to figure out what Joe saw that he didn't like either. Ramsey was a young quarterback who threw too many interceptions. Joe has zero patience with that.

We have to wonder if Joe would have benched Bradshaw, Elway, and Favre also since their TD to INT ratios were worse than Ramsey's at the same stage of their careers.

As it turned out though, Ramsey was lucky. If Gibbs had started him in 2004, he would have looked as bad as Brunell in that inept offense and his career would have been totally in the toilet. At least he got a chance to show something in the final seven games when the offense began to get its act together.

As it turned out though, Ramsey was lucky. If Gibbs had started him in 2004, he would have looked as bad as Brunell in that inept offense and his career would have been totally in the toilet. At least he got a chance to show something in the final seven games when the offense began to get its act together.

Funny you mention that, because it's been brought up here before (before you joined) that if Ramsey had been thrown into the fire like that there is the very real possibility that it would have destroyed him. And yet Gibbs chose not to put him through that...but people still want to believe Gibbs has personal vendetta against Ramsey.

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