Investigator wrote:from a data standpoint you just cannot say "this mile was covered in 5:xx" because the data source does not capture that information right now.

I don't know, I'm pretty sure the data captures the breaks. Or, more precisely, it shows the inverse: periods where we can be very confident that there were NO breaks. Not in the per-mile split averages that Strava calculates, but in the much-richer pace graph.

Every GPS-based tracker I've ever used (and even things like wheel-based cyclocomputers) has some hysteresis built in, where, even if you suddenly come to a dead stop, it says "hmm, I'm not sure if the person has actually stopped, or just slowed down, so I'm going to gradually reduce the speed that I'm reporting. Then, IF I don't detect any more movement for a long enough period, I'll say that the user has 'stopped' and turn off the tracking until they start again".

So any time he comes to a stop, I would expect the pace graph to show a significant dip, with the stop hidden within that valley. If there are no dips, there are likely no stops.

The 8.1 mile track has dips at the beginning and the end, which is likely where the 7:09 differential between 'moving time' and 'elapsed time' is hiding.

I've never used a TomTom watch of any sort, so I suppose it's possible that it has some sort of "instant stop" capability that would prevent stops from being visible in Strava data, but that's not what all his other tracks lead me to believe.

I certainly agree that it would be nice if they were converted to "Race" type, but would that affect the pace graph at all, or just the per-mile split times?

Mountain goats can't beat him

RE: Robert Young fakes run across America6/24/2016 5:04PM - in reply to Investigator

Ford something. From the blog (http://www.marathonmanuk.co.uk/2016/05/21/day-3-5-a-pick-up-for-a-hiccup/):

Dustin wrote:Alvin turned up within a half an hour in his shiny new pick-up. He soon got us out of there and we were very lucky, by all accounts. If weâ€™d been in a Chevy, by all accounts, weâ€™d never have gotten out. Ford RVâ€™s are â€˜strong as 5h1tâ€™ apparently. Rob had called on the mobile since and told us to meet him in Laughlin. Once weâ€™d gotten out we headed out to the 95 and to Laughlin. A shortish drive through the early morning heat took us to Nevada and the town of Laughlin. Goodbye California. One state down, 13 more to go. Weâ€™re making progress.

Investigator

RE: Robert Young fakes run across America6/24/2016 5:16PM - in reply to skyrefuge

Investigator wrote:from a data standpoint you just cannot say "this mile was covered in 5:xx" because the data source does not capture that information right now.

I don't know, I'm pretty sure the data captures the breaks. Or, more precisely, it shows the inverse: periods where we can be very confident that there were NO breaks. Not in the per-mile split averages that Strava calculates, but in the much-richer pace graph.

Every GPS-based tracker I've ever used (and even things like wheel-based cyclocomputers) has some hysteresis built in, where, even if you suddenly come to a dead stop, it says "hmm, I'm not sure if the person has actually stopped, or just slowed down, so I'm going to gradually reduce the speed that I'm reporting. Then, IF I don't detect any more movement for a long enough period, I'll say that the user has 'stopped' and turn off the tracking until they start again".

So any time he comes to a stop, I would expect the pace graph to show a significant dip, with the stop hidden within that valley. If there are no dips, there are likely no stops.

The 8.1 mile track has dips at the beginning and the end, which is likely where the 7:09 differential between 'moving time' and 'elapsed time' is hiding.

I've never used a TomTom watch of any sort, so I suppose it's possible that it has some sort of "instant stop" capability that would prevent stops from being visible in Strava data, but that's not what all his other tracks lead me to believe.

I certainly agree that it would be nice if they were converted to "Race" type, but would that affect the pace graph at all, or just the per-mile split times?

I manually pause my watch a ton I've times when I run, and you would never tell from the graph.

Tracking MarathonMan

RE: Robert Young fakes run across America6/24/2016 5:17PM - in reply to a fake rob

Main account is "rob young". Play ones are "Rob Young" and "Fred Baker"

C'mon Rob ... he making this all way too easy. Maybe he really doesn't know how strava works.

Sorry, I uploaded those 4 as well under a shadow account. It's not Rob.

I uploaded the files I captured to Strava under the "Young Rob" account - https://www.strava.com/athletes/15969340. I think your four are included. Lots of good data here, although I'm sure we missed a few suspect legs.

skyrefuge

RE: Robert Young fakes run across America6/24/2016 5:35PM - in reply to Investigator

Investigator wrote:I manually pause my watch a ton I've times when I run, and you would never tell from the graph.

Ah. I've always just relied on auto-pause, so failed to even consider the possibility of manually pausing. But what would have been the motivation to do that in RY's case? Just so that his paces would superficially appear faster (and thus, MORE suspicious) than they actually were?

HobbyJregistered

RE: Robert Young fakes run across America6/24/2016 5:42PM - in reply to skyrefuge

Investigator wrote:from a data standpoint you just cannot say "this mile was covered in 5:xx" because the data source does not capture that information right now.

The estimated 5k PR shown on his profile linked to that activity before it was deleted. I believe those are based on elapsed time and it was 16-something, so he was supposedly running sub-6 continuously for at least 3 miles.

Done J

RE: Robert Young fakes run across America6/24/2016 5:45PM - in reply to HobbyJ

Investigator wrote:from a data standpoint you just cannot say "this mile was covered in 5:xx" because the data source does not capture that information right now.

The estimated 5k PR shown on his profile linked to that activity before it was deleted. I believe those are based on elapsed time and it was 16-something, so he was supposedly running sub-6 continuously for at least 3 miles.

True the Strave "best efforts" will be accurate.

He posting lame ass videos on FB. Him walking/standing/talking during this run:https://www.strava.com/activities/617268886. Why no action footage of the beast pace up the climb? Can't ask on FB as they keep deleting it.

Tracking MarathonMan

RE: Robert Young fakes run across America6/24/2016 5:50PM - in reply to HobbyJ

Investigator wrote:from a data standpoint you just cannot say "this mile was covered in 5:xx" because the data source does not capture that information right now.

The estimated 5k PR shown on his profile linked to that activity before it was deleted. I believe those are based on elapsed time and it was 16-something, so he was supposedly running sub-6 continuously for at least 3 miles.

Here's the duplicate of that run, I think. At least 5 consecutive sub-6 miles according to that, with a Strava-estimated 16:56 5K and 5:05 mile in there somewhere.

RioLookingbadfor USmids wrote:Perhaps it's time to put more pressure on SKINS? You know companies only feel real pressure when it has an IMMEDIATE and detrimental effect to their bottom line.

We could look at which running stores and outlets offer SKINS for sale. Contact the CEOs and management of those reputable runnings stores/retailers and let them know we're boycotting SKINS for supporting fraudulent runners like Robert Young. CEOs start sweating when they hear words like "boycott." That will certainly get their attention a whole lot quicker.

I think you need to lighten up. I am enjoying how this is all playing out. I don't see the need for immediate gratification in the form of an immediate skins firing of Rob. Take a deep breath and relax. Enjoy the daily drama.

Agree. The longer this plays out the worse the publicity for SKINS. Wait for the "Independent investigation" and next week's blog post from Jaimie before calling for a boycott.

Statistician extraordinÃ¡rio.

RE: Robert Young fakes run across America6/24/2016 5:59PM - in reply to Done J

Somebody forgot to tell Rob that if he was going to make this look legit, he needed to get out of the RV every 9-10 miles and walk throughout the night. As mentioned previously the walking breaks stick out like a sore thumb on the day he started. (because he was really running) And then they show up again a few days after Asher. (because he was really running). Then when the geezers show up it is mostly walking.

No Ultra guy has a solid pace throughout an ultra run. Much less a transcon run. Ultra guys WALK A LOT!

noobrunnerregistered

RE: Robert Young fakes run across America6/24/2016 6:00PM - in reply to Investigator

Investigator wrote:Guys I've mentioned this a few times, listen, Strava show MOVING time, you can't use it to determine his breaks.

I think it gives us a good enough picture of what's going on. Even if he paused every mile or less (for what?), there would be drastic slowing and ramping back up for each interval. The graph is pretty smooth.

8 Sub-6 miles (including a 5:14 and a 5:32) at 7,000' in the middle of a transcon. Yehright. Even Rob knew it was telling and had to scrub it.

Dude, what I'm saying is, you cannot know his mile times based on this data. That one you link is 47 min moving 54 elapsed. So for all we know instead of 5:14 and 5:32, it took him 8-9 actual minutes each to cover each of those miles, if that's where he took the breaks.

Except you can go to the RV tracker and line up the segment with the tracker and see right there whether he took a break or not. The RV tracker had no pause button.

Main account is "rob young". Play ones are "Rob Young" and "Fred Baker"

C'mon Rob ... he making this all way too easy. Maybe he really doesn't know how strava works.

Sorry, I uploaded those 4 as well under a shadow account. It's not Rob.

I uploaded the files I captured to Strava under the "Young Rob" account - https://www.strava.com/athletes/15969340. I think your four are included. Lots of good data here, although I'm sure we missed a few suspect legs.

I downloaded all the real Rob Young segments (minus ones that were deleted before I got them, like perhaps the Williams, AZ, stretch) from the raceshape site (http://raceshape.com/strava.export.php?ride=STRAVA_ACTIVITY_ID&type=CRS) and I have them in CRS format. Rather than create multiple fake Rob accounts for this stuff, let's consolidate. I can post them to a google drive for download, but then you would have to upload each activity manually (strava is smart enough to flag duplicates if you try to upload one you already have) or I can use the shadow I created and upload any that you have that I might not. Or, we can coordinate off list. Either way, it's going to be confusing to have multiple fake Rob accounts.

Btw, on FB he posted 121 strava segment urls. I have a few more, amounting to 150. When all is said and done I wouldn't be surprised if some were already deleted, or maybe they are still adding some. It's kind of hard to tell what's new, but I'd like to keep a list going of all the segments. Ideally, we would link across all the data. See the new worksheet in the google doc.