Messages - Simas Polchias

According to Ga÷rta, when talking to Kellhus in TWP, they are ancient. While the Mandate believes they are recent Tekne creations, from the past 300 years. Which explanation is correct?

Maybe both? Their simple intelligent sparks could be awaken, conscient and present since the times of the crash or even earlier than that. But their chassis, for the lack of better word, is a later invention.

I won't wonder if they are just a repurposed subsystems of the Arc, which were just hanging from some forgotten wall for millenia until some mangaeccan intern stumbled upon them by chance.

My main bet is... it's a biggest, reddest herring in the whole series. Boy have a perfectly normal hand, nothing to worry about. It's just that late duniyain at last got in some positive-feedback mistake because of their advanced body-reading skill and mistreated the impression.

Or -- he is as much advanced duniyain to Koringhus as Koringhus was to Kellhus and thus pragmas were unable to see his superiority, just like with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integer_overflow error. They saw him as flawed because he stepped over to somewhere where they will never ever be capable of walking at all.

Fair enough. I should have said I don't see the point of the self harm in this case.

Remember how Kellhus surprised an terrified Akka by absorbing cutting-edge knowledge like logic or gnosis and instantly jumping to their advanced, unknown forms? It was mostly possible because he's a brilliant student, but also because Akka is a great teacher capable of conveying difficult concepts with ease.

Now imagine all troubles of studying a tekne from two broken inchoroi relicts, who were not the brightest insects in the swarm even before that velvet duniyain revolution. On the one hand, mistakes would certainly have a place. On the other hand, duniyain are capable of vivisecting themselves if they consider it a shortest path to extracting the scientific knowledge they need.

It's the Bakkerverse. Wrong as "they took fantazies for facts, screw those idiots" or wrong as "they made just a little mistake but in the most important place, poor-poor people"? These are very distant kinds of wrong Ś and I dunno in which one the Solitary God is just an uber-ciphrang, who torned himself into a bunch of tinier, less-cruel gods and demons.

Simas Polchias, I like it. Can't think of anything that contradicts that explicitly.

Thank you, Wilshire! I've already done that, lol. The weakest link of such theory is book-proofed but still scarce information about topos/tortute relation. All explanation I could imagine is gods are fond of torture in their world and they are attracted by mass torture in the world of living. With a considerable stretch, a place without suffering would be hidden from their attention or the last one in line to check? Maybe, if you die there, you will have Oblivion like nonmen did.

Wow, Simas - that is awesome - I dig it, makes sense. Just need to figure out what makes the few the few, would take it no god would allow that genetic variation/mutation to occur, unless it is the string that pulls ( Bakker saying god generated reality could not possibly be perfect, there is some error somewhere ... ).

Thank you! My bet is on exposure to the Outside, you know, like a "fantazy evolution" scenario.

There is theory about human ancestors had a weakening mutation of jaw muscles, which were not unlike gorillas before that. There were other factors constibuting to brain's growth and complication of it's higher function, of course, but powerful muscles spanning from jaws to occiput/crown were clenching the skull and limiting it size in the very beginning. Presumable mutation came from natural radiation like meteorite or african uranium deposits, made a lot of hominids into poor chewers, but gave their long descendants a chance to stack intelligence through different means and processes.

The Ouside is a phenomenon out of time and space, which sounds like a possible evolution frontier for creatures who flow linearly in time, have to navigate the space with primitive appendages/machines, are easily damaged by spatial variations (no air you die, magma around you die, no amynoacids around you die etc).

The guess is Ś if intelligent creatures, who are still limited by the "natural" world, came in contact with the "supernatural" world, they undergo a process not unlike those irratiated hominids. Something breaks, something appears. The Outside stacks in them and in their progeny to the point when their long-long descendants will be capable to affect natural world with methods highly-unburdened by time, causality etc. With sorcery, I mean.

That may explain the hatred from (some?) gods towards sorcerors. I recon most of people will hate the idea of cultivated or wild plants becoming sentient, it just won't fit into their established image of evolution.

Or perhaps they are scouring the universe for all places like Earwa where the Outside can be reached, and are slowing colonizing the closed worlds behind their Inchoroi armadas.

This.

My guess was about other planets of Bakkerverse can form topoi or be subject to anti-topoi measures (which is technically approaching to the Outside / distancing from the Outside, opening the World / shutting the World). But they have no sorcery. You will have to shut these world manually one by one and hope one day you will find or research some new, more efficient, universe-wide method. Inchoroi were lucky to find sorcery, gnosis and Shae÷nanra, lol.

Assumption is. Sorcery is an "intelligence within intelligence", a rule-breaker. There is mostly empty space in the universe. Sometime there are stars. Even less, there are planets. Life is ever more rare thing. Intelligence? Much more rare. Intelligence capable of sorcery? Maybe the rarest thing possible.

Without sorcery you can create topos-wide planet by torturing it's intelligent population. Without sorcery you can shut the said world through forced evolution (torture is about pain, pain is about experience of tissue trauma, science can destroy the very existence of torure, including psychical one -- nonmen innoculation seems like a botched attempt of it). But it's just a local event. After making the numerous population, ahem, into 144000 post-specie creatures, you are safe on the shut world. Gods won't recognize it or you anymore. It's better than to just count on your immortality and never dying, but it's still a procrastination. Contitents will migrate, supervulcanos will awaken, stars will grow and devour a whole planet. One day you will have to pack your tekne and find youself a new world, starting the cycle again.

With sorcery you can completely change the field and the rules of this game. So to say, you can gouge out eyes of gods instead of acting stealthy in front of them. Go full assault instead of hiding.

TL;DR Earwa is a final, non-procrastination solution to the Outside problem.

Do we actually know for a fact that "world" is a synonym for all reality and not just the stellar body? There could be numerous worlds already shut and numerous "crusader arcs" bringing salvation to the rest of the universe. It's just this one arc had a crash story, so it's highest weapon race is totally wrong about history of the shutting endeavour -- shutting was successfull all along and Earwa is a botched land, not promised one.

I have trouble imagining that both of them became Ajokli in any shared way. That particular god doesn't war against itself but with others.

Ajoklikellhus dutifuly helps with the plan, but Ajoklicnaiur spreads the fuckery all over it! Bonus points if these two guys never meet each other -- so Ajoklicknealiluhrus doesn't understand why people call him the trickster. To put it shortly, Ajokli is a mad god.

Do we actually know for a fact those mutilations came from tortures by Consult and/or from war wounds? Could be a self-inflicted thing after getting full access to IF. That way the Unscarred is the one hell of a creepy person. Or he was in a control gropu to have both IFed and nonIFed duniyains. Or he's a mastermind who tested IF with others and just observed the results.