(30-12-2013 05:12 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote: I really cannot believe that you're alluding to - that the length of existence allows for any more validity OF said religion?? In your own small way you're giving more credibility to Christianity than you realize. It simply doesn't matter if a religion's been around 50 years or 500 or 5000. Clearly the number of people of length of time of Any religion doesn't make that religion more valid or believable than any other. I think if you look closely you'll find that being "adaptable' is more or less the point of religion. (Time, attitude and graciousness not withstanding)
lol

I think you're misunderstanding my point. I'm not saying that if a religion has been around a long time that it makes it more credible. I've heard people argue that before, that's not the point of the OP.

My point is that Christians often claim that an entire religion couldn't just spring up organically like that, and so the existence of the religion must therefore prove the existence of the god. I listed these three religions because they're all relatively recent in human history and show how people can totally believe something in a short period of time. I'm discussing the origins of the religion.

Also, I probably should have put Islam in there as a forth example, simply to show that a "false religion" can gain a following measured in billions of adherents.

Yeah - I've never bought into the length of Christianity giving any (more) credibility to it. Just because billions of people have argued For it or it's had a long life doesn't really qualify it as legit. If that were accurate the old mythos which existed for many centuries prior to Christianity or Islam would still be believed today.......and the world'd still be flat.

It's what the word means. Spiritual means believing in spirits, souls, or other non-physical things. It doesn't mean anything else. You're over defining the term.

It doesn't mean "being good". It doesn't mean "eating pizza". It doesn't mean "can fly and shoot lasers out of your eyes". It means "believing in spirits, souls, and other spiritual things".

(29-12-2013 08:31 PM)Alla Wrote: WOW! I can't believe what I am reading. Almost everything is upside down.
What are the FRUITS of this kind of "spirituality" - believe in spirits?
Do you remember James's words about DEAD faith(believes)?

It doesn't matter what he said in regards to the definition of the word "spiritual". Any "fruits" of spirituality are just extra beliefs people tack onto being spiritual.

OK. This is what "spiritual" means in my LDS world:
God teaches us that temporal things can bring spiritual blessings ( fruits).
For example, God gives laws. These laws are temporal. There is nothing spiritual about them. Let's take law that is called "Word of Wisdom". According to this law I can not drink alcohol. It may improve my health or at least I will not damage my body. Temporal blessing.
If I disobey this law I will loose spiritual blessings. I will become addict(I am not master of my body anymore), my relationship with people will become worth. I may loose my family. I will become more angry, irritated person. I may even start to commit crimes. I become spiritually fallen person.

Another example. You may buy flowers for your wife because you have to. You buy and you buy. She is happy you don't care. But if you buy them because you want to, because you feel good to do something good for her you will have real SPIRITUAL experience.

If you are cooking for someone because you have to, you might hate what you are doing. But if you cook with LOVE and you want to make someone happy you will have real SPIRITUAL experience while you are doing temporal thing.

Again, as I think Peter said: "PURE RELIGION(spiritual thing) is to help orphan and widow.
When you serve your fellowmen because you love them and feel compassion for them you will have very spiritual experience. If you serve your fellowmen because you have to and not because you have love and compassion for them you won't have true spiritual experience.
The whole experience is very spiritual when we do temporal thing with love or having compassion to others.

English is not my native language. that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection

I would like to point out that some of the "spiritual" rituals of native americans that much predate christianity are still carried out. You should see some of the crowds on second mesa the only Hopi community that allows non Hopi's at their dances.

There are certainly "spiritual" tribal activities that well predate christianities. Why longevity should count for anything is of course stupid.

As for the large number of adherents that has a historical basis. Rome used christianity in an attempt to continue its imperium. It would convert kings by pointing out the political benefits who would then demand it of their kingdom.

Alla, when I post something assuming a common usage definition of a word and you use a special definition, you shouldn't be surprised when we end up talking past each other. That being said, thanks for explaining it.

(29-12-2013 07:52 PM)Alla Wrote: Another ancient apostle of Jesus Christ said that there are three: Faith, Hope and Charity. And do you know which one is the greatest? faith? no. hope? no.charity? yes!
If to do good to others is not spirituality then what is spirituality?

Alla, "charity" is an anachronistic translation of the vulgate which reads "caritas" which is a translation of the koine greek for "ἀγάπη" (agape) meaning love, which is different to what people in the 21st century would consider the word "charity" to mean.

“The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is because vampires are allergic to bullshit.” ― Richard Pryor

Nah! Alla, I think your examples fail to capture what's really going on. I wouldn't call those things spiritual blessings. People feel good for doing something good to others because we are altruists. Do other altruist animals get spiritual blessings for doing good things too? Like a lioness?

8000 years before Jesus, the Egyptian god Horus said, "I am the way, the truth, the life."