This video makes a number of points, but one of the most important is toward the end, where it describes the disgusting way that religious groups treat others:

Irregardless of whether gods do or do not exist, this disgusting behavior would naturally cause some people to reject religion. Combine it with the fact that there is no evidence that any god exists, and you understand why so many people reject religion.

The strange question is this: why do so many people accept religion, despite the disgusting behavior and the lack of evidence? Another question: why do many who believe in gods then fall into such disgusting behaviors?

70 Responses to “The disgusting way that those who believe in gods treat others”

on 10 Jan 2011 at 12:33 pm 1.Englishteacher said …

Irregardless is not a word. Use Regardless.

on 10 Jan 2011 at 3:55 pm 2.Observer said …

Use “regardless” or “irrespective”.

on 10 Jan 2011 at 6:05 pm 3.Obvious said …

I would use the words. “Although we do know God does exist”. It is precise and does portray the obvious.

The behavior of human beings is immaterial. There are jerks and hypocrites in every walk of life. Most would not consider all atheists to be obnoxious twits like Sam Harris just because Sam Harris is an obnoxious twit. His actions in no way change the narrative.

on 10 Jan 2011 at 9:37 pm 4.Derek said …

Obvious,

Another argumentative fallacy here. In order to make his point, the poster ignores ALL the great behavior by those who profess Christ. Some of the most generous people in the world.

The author ignores the behavior of horrible atheists such as Lenin, Stalin and Pol Pot. Using his argument, who would become an atheist?

“Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism: Vladamir Lenin

“Josef Stalin’s “very religious” mother named him after St. Joseph, and wanted him to become a priest. Stalin himself supposedly claimed that his father had been a priest, and he was purportedly “damaged by violence” while being “raised in a poor priest-ridden household.” As a youth, Stalin spent five years in a Greek Orthodox seminary, after which he purportedly renounced his religion. In his later years, Stalin apparently embraced Christianity once more. ”

“Pol Pot was raised a Buddhist and Catholic. In this regard, Dr. Ian Harris, a Reader in Religious Studies at the University College of St. Martin, relates: “In one of his early writings Pol Pot wrote approvingly that the ‘democratic regime will bring back the Buddhist moralism because our great leader Buddha was the first to have taught [democracy].'” Although in comparison to the Abrahamic religions its history is far less violent, Buddhism has not been entirely devoid of atrocity in its spread and practice.”

Meanwhile, George Bush “hears God’s voice” and starts ongoing wars that kill more than a million. Catholic Priests rape children by the hundreds. Muslims kill thousands in an ongoing Jihad. Jews imprison millions of Palestinians. All current, all happening today. All undeniably in the name of religion.

on 11 Jan 2011 at 1:26 am 6.Xenon said …

V8,

Here we go, a historical revisionist. You are only running on two Cylinders V8. Do you have any idea how many atheist were raised religious? Hmmm, seems to shoot down your angle here. Do you know what the Communist Manifesto states about God and religion? No, of course not.

“You know, they are fooling us, there is no God… all this talk about God is sheer nonsense.” – E. Yaroslavsky, Landmarks in the Life of Stalin

Yep, he was on your side.

Pol Pot was an atheist. Why? He was communist and Marx stated that atheism, was just a stage on the path to communism.

Since atheist have no standards, what these men did violated no moral values, laws or standards.

on 11 Jan 2011 at 1:44 am 7.v8 said …

Stalin died 5 decades ago. You reach back so far because?

All examples I gave are current. All undeniably in the name of religion. And thousands more.

Westboro church

Gay bashing

Misogyny in most churches

Church-inspired racism

Religious hatred of atheists

Muslim beheadings

On and On

All in the name of religion

on 11 Jan 2011 at 2:25 am 8.MrQ said …

X states:

Do you have any idea how many atheist were raised religious?

Hitler also? Wasn’t he a good ol’ Catholic boy to the end. Praised by the church while killing those evil jews, gypsies, and gays. But that’s reaching back, just like you, X.

Hey, X, how many religious folks were born atheist? 100%, isn’t it? It’s the stuff poured into their impressionable minds as they’re raised that makes them do what they do in the names of their gods….like fly airplanes into buildings and bomb abortion clinics.

Since you seem to be fascinated by atheist countries, why not look those evil Scandinavians and see how they can function without gods.

on 11 Jan 2011 at 2:35 am 9.Xenon said …

V2,

I reach back far? No, I go to the two biggest monsters of the 20th century who were atheist.

Why?

Well, read the thread. Since atheism has such terrible people in its ranks, you should leave it. I don’t defend any of the religious atrocities, they are horrible as well. When you do so it only shows you can’t defend those in your ranks and you must play one-up-man-ship.

But back to the point of the thread. Do you agree? Will you know renounce atheism. How about you MrQ?

on 11 Jan 2011 at 3:08 am 10.v8 said …

Because you reach back so far, none of the people you point to exist any longer. Therefore they are not “in the ranks.”

OTOH, every example I give is current:

Bush’s wars killing millions

Catholic Pedophiles

Muslim Jihandists

Jewish tormentors of Palestine

Westboro church

Gay bashing

Misogyny in most churches

Church-inspired racism

Religious hatred of atheists

Muslim beheadings

On and On

All in the name of religion

on 11 Jan 2011 at 3:38 am 11.Xenon said …

Oh, so if the person is dead then it is OK. No matter Stalin alone is credited with about 300 million. I must say your compassion is overwhelming.

OK, well I am not Catholic or a Westboro member. Bush killed no one (not a Truther are you!), I am not a member of a group that hates gays, are racists, beheads anyone, jihadist, misogynists so therefore I am in the clear.

But lets look at the post closer. Disgusting behavior is mentioned. Lets see if atheist fall here.

David Harris (an atheist) killed the beloved O’Hair family and robbed American Atheist of much money. He is still alive. Pretty disgusting, yes? Will you now renounce atheism?

Sam Harris states killing of individuals is appropriate if their ideas are dangerous. How about you V2. Would you be OK randomly killing individuals who Sam believes has ideas that are dangerous? Killing theist would be OK?

on 11 Jan 2011 at 4:57 am 12.v8 said …

Bush started his wars, which have killed millions, because he heard God’s voice.

Catholic Priest Pedophiles are representatives of God.

Muslim Jihandists act on behalf of Allah

Jewish tormentors of Palestine are inspired by God

Westboro church members quote the Bible and hear God’s voice

Gay bashing comes directly from God’s word, which demands the death of homosexuals

Misogyny in most churches comes directly from God’s word, which demands discrimination against women

Religious hatred of atheists comes directly from God’s word, which demands the death of non-believers

Muslim beheadings are driven by Allah’s laws

When the religious act in these ways, it is because of their religion. It implicates their religion because the religion demands such disgusting behavior.

If a hairdresser murders a customer, does it implicate any other hairdresser? No. There is nothing in hairdresserology that demands or even suggests murder.

And so it is with atheism. Atheists do not hear the psychotic voices of imaginary gods urging them to murder, rape and behead. The religious do.

on 11 Jan 2011 at 5:08 am 13.Xenon said …

More digression, no answers to the original post but a great deal of ignorance of other beliefs. I figured that would be the case since atheist never see the plank in their own eye.

Maybe if atheist looked at you belief system honestly, you would see the problems.

Blogmaster, your challenge can not be met by your own. Your thesis has fallen.

on 11 Jan 2011 at 6:51 am 14.Severin said …

6 Xenon
“Do you have any idea how many atheist were raised religious?“
I don’t have any idea about it. If you have some, you better give us some figures and sources.
What I DO have idea about is:
Some 1 billion people lived on earth about 1800.
I doubt there were ANY significant number of atheists on earth then. Not a figure measured in %, probably not even in ppm (parts per million).

Now we have some 7 billion people on earth and some 8 % of them are atheists, not to count people who „don’t know“, and the number is growing rapidly.

Do you have any idea how many theists are raising atheists every single second?

on 11 Jan 2011 at 7:24 am 15.Severin said …

9 Xenon
“Well, read the thread. Since atheism has such terrible people in its ranks, you should leave it.“

We dicussed it many times, and went to the most important point no one can deny:
IF those guys were atheists (Hitler was NOT!), they all took power THANKS TO RELIGIOUS MASSES.

A Christian nation (no atheists!) such as German nation, ELECTED Hitler after they listened his speaches for a decade. They HAD choices, but they voted for Hitler. A Christian nation (0 % atheists!) brought a monster fascist to power.
Same in Italy about 1920.
Russian nation, 100% Christian (NO atheists!), supported communism and died for communism. Again: a Christian nation brought a communist regime to power.
How many atheists were there in China when Mao won his revolution? Poor, illiterate AND totally religious people of China supported Mao’s communism with their lives.

Communist and fascsist were more clever than churches. They promissed paradise NOW, not after death: land, work, health insurance, equal possibilities in education….
Religious masses allowed themselves to be tricked with those promisses, and DIED for possibility to realize them.

Can you imagine Sweden or English to be tricked that way?

And, yes, slave holders in America were all atheists?! Only some 150 years ago “good Christians” hold other human beings as cattle.
“Unterrible people” they were!
Ooops!

on 11 Jan 2011 at 7:51 am 16.Severin said …

6 Xenon
„Since atheist have no standards, what these men did violated no moral values, laws or standards.“

THAT is something you have to support!
Hitler was NOT an atheist. Musolini was NOT an atheist.
Maybe Stalin, Lenin, Mao were atheists (OR pretended to be atheists for their goals), but THAT is totally irrelevant.
What IS relevant is: they were LUNATICS which took power by manipulating religious masses. Religious masses DID NOT RECOGNIZE THEIR LUNACY, and supported them with their lives. They ADORED Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Hitler, before they got sobered (but it was too late then).

Look at your poor „argumrnt“ as statistic:
You all the time give examples of LUNATIC ATHEISTS, and how many of them: Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, …oops, no more, period.

Shall I start to list LUNATIC THEISTS which killed and tortured millions?
If I list only names, period will be on the end of 500th page.

Start with slave holders, all „good Christians“. Continue with South American dictators.
Go back to hundreds of European kings, kings in China and Japan, other Asian countries, whose kings and emperors were monsters in most cases.
NONE of them was atheist!
Japanese, who killed MILLIONS of civilians in China, prayed to their gods on regular basis.
NONE of them was atheist.

Where were THEIR standards? In their faith?

on 11 Jan 2011 at 8:13 am 17.Severin said …

11 xenon
„No matter Stalin alone is credited with about 300 million.“

Whome do you expect to pay attention at what you say if you are trying to „sell“ us such idiocies?
USSR had population of less than 200,000,000 about 1940.!

Sober up, Xenon! To exaggerate is one thing, and to say Satlin killed 300 millions is idiocy that will not help your image.

on 11 Jan 2011 at 12:42 pm 18.Burebista said …

X mentioned atheist killing atheist which is not unusual. A atheist down in Alabama killed just last year. This killer in Az over the weekend claimed to be atheist while in High school.

Atheist are human beings, they kill and suppress others like anyone else. To be such a small number, they have performed some of the most egregious acts. Its because all people are sinners and have the capacity to do horrible things.

If the premise of this thread is true, as X suggested atheist should in turn renounce their atheism.

on 11 Jan 2011 at 1:42 pm 19.rael said …

as i think all you theists realise but fail to mention – aethism is not a causal factor in these acts. On the other hand religious belief can and sometimes is.

I would say that many of the kindest and altruistic people are often religious believers because thier faith can make them behave better towards thier fellow man, unfortunately bad things are also done in the name of religion

Religion can be beneficial to people, or destructive. Aethiesm is fairly neutral

If only people were more minded to do good acts without the need for religious belief (although i would say that, wouldn’t i?)

on 11 Jan 2011 at 5:08 pm 20.MrQ said …

X,#6

Since atheist have no standards, what these men did violated no moral values, laws or standards.

Whoa there big fella. If that is true, then how did we exist before the invention of gods and religions. Are you saying modern day Scandinavians have no morals/laws/standards?
X,#9

Since atheism has such terrible people in its ranks, you should leave it.

Fallacy of division.
X,#13

Maybe if atheist looked at you belief system honestly, you would see the problems.

Another fallacy..Not a belief system. Actually, it’s the lack of a belief system. No invisible means of support.
X,#11

Killing theist would be OK?

Look around…They kill each other gleefully. Personally, I don’t support killing anybody, except for brutes such as atheist minded dictators ;-).

on 11 Jan 2011 at 7:45 pm 21.Xenon said …

Wow, the atheist here cannot stay on topic. Digression is without a doubt there favorite fallacy.

Why won’t any of the atheist here answer the question of our blogmaster. If theist should reject their beliefs due the disgusting behavior of some, shouldn’t atheist reject atheism?

Besides, there are some 0.2 % of atheists in USA prisons, and some 80% Christians (rest are other religions, NOT atheists!).

Strange figures for a Christian cuntry!

on 11 Jan 2011 at 9:10 pm 23.Rostam said …

X

I think I can answer the question for the atheists. See, they have set themselves up to be God. Therefore, regardless of the disgusting things done by atheist they are not wrong. Even killing off the great O’Hair was OK because an atheist did the deed. If it had been a theist, you would hear them recounting the story today.

Its much like politics. Obama continues Bush policies and suddenly they are OK.

on 11 Jan 2011 at 9:21 pm 24.MrQ said …

See, they have set themselves up to be God.

Well, duh! We humans tend to create gods in our image. Have been doing that for a few centuries. God was/is the easy explanation for things which were/are unknown. Fortunately, many people ate the fruit of knowledge and have advanced beyond the stone age.

on 11 Jan 2011 at 9:25 pm 25.Thomas said …

In the U.S.S.R. the Nobel Prize winner, Alexander Solzhenitsyn estimates the loss of life from state repression October 1917 to December 1959 under Lenin and Stalin and Khrushchev at 66.7 million.

According the Walker Report, 63.7 million over the whole period of time of the Communist revolution in China. Kampuchea destroyed one third of their entire population of 8 million Cambodians. The Chinese at two different times in history, somewhere in the vicinity of 35 million and 40 million people.

Note that these deaths were the result of organizations or ideologies that had left God out of the equation. None of these involve religion. And all but the very last actually assert atheism, No atheist group has ever apologized.

on 11 Jan 2011 at 10:57 pm 26.Wot? said …

In the U.S.S.R. the Nobel Prize winner, Alexander Solzhenitsyn estimates the loss of life from state repression October 1917 to December 1959 under Lenin and Stalin and Khrushchev at 66.7 million.

No atheist group has ever apologized.

Wot? Where is the causality?

Lenin and Stalin and Khrushchev were white. No white group has ever apologized. Why? because being white was not causal. Atheism is identical – they may have been atheist, but it is irrelevant. There is no Big Book of Atheism telling atheists to kill.

Now read the Bible. It commands that billions of people be murdered. Read the Koran – same thing. There is causality.

on 12 Jan 2011 at 12:40 am 27.Reasoningman said …

So how does all this back and forth about how bad atheists are or how bad theists are relate to supernatural beliefs that are not founded on evidence? And how does it relate to how people treat each other based upon whether they do or do not share the same supernatural beliefs? Weren’t those the themes of the video?

By the way Xenon, the word “atheist” is singular. You form the plural by adding an “s” to the end.

on 12 Jan 2011 at 2:34 am 28.Xenon said …

“There is no Big Book of Atheism telling atheists to kill.”

Yes, nor is there a big book telling them not to kill, oppress and destroy which is why they have committed the most horrible crimes. They were atheist. Deal with the reality.

But again the atheist continue to defend their disgusting members.

Why won’t any of the atheist here answer the question of our blogmaster. If theist should reject their beliefs due the disgusting behavior of some, shouldn’t atheist reject atheism?

on 12 Jan 2011 at 5:49 am 29.Wot? said …

If theist should reject their beliefs due the disgusting behavior of some, shouldn’t atheist reject atheism?

Theists should reject their beliefs because disgusting behavior is inherent to religion from the start.

The post states: “one of the most important is toward the end, where it describes the disgusting way that religious groups treat others.” I stated: “Now read the Bible. It commands that billions of people be murdered. Read the Koran – same thing. There is causality.” It’s inherent.

on 12 Jan 2011 at 7:20 am 30.Severin said …

23 Rostam
“Therefore, regardless of the disgusting things done by atheist they are not wrong.”

You are putting in our mouths and our minds what YOU think would fit YOUR perception of atheist.
In other words: you are lying (again) to satisfy your intollerance (maybe hate?).
I saw no atheist on this blog who made such a statement. I personally take as wrong lying, robbing, killing, raping, slavery, stoning, ripping of pregant women, masacring of children, hypocrisy, revange, and many other things, NO MATTER WHO IS DOING THEM.

Such an ugly slander comes, obviously, from your own biased mind. For you, ripping of pregnant women and masacring of children, and all other disgusting things described in the Bible as done by god himself, are O.K.
For me, and most atheists I know (and all of them debating here), it is wrong, no matter who does them: god, Stalin or a priest.

That is the very bottom of theist’s way “reasoning”, but when you see what they believe, such things are expected.
Your words are a perfect example of how religion can distort human mind!

on 12 Jan 2011 at 7:25 am 31.Severin said …

27 Reasoningman

Perfect!

on 12 Jan 2011 at 7:33 am 32.Severin said …

26 Wot?

Excellent!

on 12 Jan 2011 at 7:50 am 33.Severin said …

28 Xenon
“Yes, nor is there a big book telling them not to kill, oppress and destroy which is why they have committed the most horrible crimes.“

We have such books in our minds (brain, flash, genes).
This world would be much nicer place if theists would stop sucking their „morality“ from their „hate manuals“ (Bible, Kuran,…), and start refering to their personal consciences.
Then they would not accept and justify some crimes, and condemn other ones, living under heavy burden of double morality.

Would you kill someone if your god came directly to you and ordered you to kill?
I would NOT, because I know killing is wrong. And you answer for yourself!

on 12 Jan 2011 at 8:23 am 34.Severin said …

27 Reasoningman
“So how does all this back and forth about how bad atheists are or how bad theists are relate to supernatural beliefs that are not founded on evidence?“

On my second tought, it does!
See #23 and #28, and you will notice how people reason under burden of their beliefs.

They might be generally good people, I do not call them bad, but they are obviously under permanent stress caused by their double morality, which is:
If god orders ripping of pregnant women, it is O.K., and if Stalin orders it it is wrong.

Some time ago, when we discussed morality here, I gave examples from Bible of god’s direct order to rip pregnant women and to put children „on swords“ (Bible).
The question came to me, believe it or not, on this blog, from a theist: WHY WAS IT IMMORAL, and most other theists forced me to give my answer to that question!

I admit I found no „logical“ answer immediatelly abot immorality of such a deed, and they ridiculed me for my “ignorance”.
Supernatural beliefs cause „splitting“ of one’s conscience, double morality, and I don’t see it good.
Ripping of preganant women is BAD no matter who orders/does it, but NOT for theists.

on 12 Jan 2011 at 5:23 pm 35.Xenon said …

“Theists should reject their beliefs because disgusting behavior is inherent to religion from the start.”

WOT,

You miss the important point. Read the thread. The disgusting behavior of its adherents. Atheist fits the bill. Murder is murder regardless of where you think the command comes from. Are you OK with atheist who murder? Will you now reject atheism? They have killed more people than any group.

on 12 Jan 2011 at 6:51 pm 36.Severin said …

35 Xenon
“Murder is murder regardless of where you think the command comes from.”

I am happy to hear it from you, but since when do you accept and propague such an opinion?

So, your god, who clearly orderd ripping of pregnant women and “putting the little ones on sabres” IS a murderer?
Do you worship a murderer?

Wasn’t you among a few who asked me why was ripping of pregnant women immoral, some time ago (I can trace the post to find it?

Althoug I was not asked to answer, I can also say for myself, as I said it many times: murder is murder regardless of where the command came from.

28 Xenon
“But again the atheist continue to defend their disgusting members.”

I missed this lie!
Why do you use leis, Xenon?
Why don’t yo debate honestly?

Can you kindly show us a single word in which atheists defend “their disgusting members”?

I never saw one in this blog, so you are using lies to achieve – what? To prove yourself right?
Not nice!

on 12 Jan 2011 at 7:10 pm 38.Severin said …

Xenon

My English is bad, but my debating culture is on a pretyy hihgh level.
I expect others to expose their opinions, to use false evidences, wrong arguments, to exaggerate a lot, to mock people (which I avoid as much as possible), everything is more or less O.K. in a debate of this sort, EXCEPT LYING.

Even the half – drunk pub “debaters” do not allow using of lies as “arguments”.

How deep into shit are you ready to go?

on 12 Jan 2011 at 9:15 pm 39.Derek said …

#35 Xenon said
“Will you now reject atheism? They have killed more people than any group.”

I never truly expected any atheist to reject their worldview. They will defend all of the “disgusting behavior” by acts of deflection. Arguments such as “His atheism didn’t cause him to kill” or “He was never an atheist” by pointing to their childhood.

This is how atheists deal with the lesser members. I have seen Christians all over admit and even apologize for the grief cause by those who embarrass their membership. I have never seen a Muslim or a Atheist do the same. Maybe they have a common scarlet thread.

on 13 Jan 2011 at 3:03 am 40.Wot? said …

You miss the important point. Read the thread. The disgusting behavior of its adherents. Atheist fits the bill. Murder is murder regardless of where you think the command comes from. Are you OK with atheist who murder? Will you now reject atheism? They have killed more people than any group.

You are asking a question like this:

“Are you OK with males who murder? Will you now reject maleness?”

It is a silly question because there is nothing in maleness that demands that males murder people.

“Are you OK with whites who murder? Will you now reject whiteness?”

There is no Big Book of Whiteness that demands white people murder anyone.

“Are you OK with hairdressers who murder (to quote another comment above)? Will you now reject hairdresserology?”

There is nothing in the profession of hairdressing that demands murder.

Therefore, when you ask:

“Are you OK with atheist who murder? Will you now reject atheism?”

It is the same. There is nothing in atheism that demands that atheists murder people. Atheism does not cause anyone to murder anyone else. Are there atheists who commit murder? Yes, as there are males, whites and hairdressers who commit murder.

Christianity, however, is different:

“Are you OK with Christians who murder? Will you now reject Christianity?”

The Bible tells Christians to murder others, to discriminate against women, to enslave people, etc. It is disgusting. Watch this video:

Maybe you fail to read about loving your neighbor as yourself. How about thou shalt not murder? If only your atheist tyrants had lived by those rules

But you know, discrimination, hate and murder is OK for atheist! Wow, you guys can do ANYTHING and its not wrong. No wonder you like the system.

Atheism however offers no reason not to murder. Its proven by the great tyrants of the 20th century. Lets face it, Stalin gained a lot of power that way. O’Hair’s killer had a nice wad of cash for awhile! Whatever works, right?

So, will you now reject atheism? This is fjust following your blogmaster’s suggestion.

In Exodus 31:15: “For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.”

Exodus 35:2: “For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.”

In Leviticus 20:13: “If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death.”

In Leviticus 24:16: “Anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him.”

on 13 Jan 2011 at 6:51 am 43.Severin said …

39 Derek

“They will defend all of the “disgusting behavior” by acts of deflection.”

Is it an epidemy of lies?
Is lying the only way for you theists to say something?

Can you show us a single word an atheist DEFENDS CRIME?
You can not, because no atheist on this blog defended crimes, ever.

On the orher side, theists DO defend crimes of their gods, and ARE DOING crimes in his name.
I was asked from a theist, on this blog, why is ripping of pregnant women immoral, if that was god’s revange.

Visit a shrink!

on 13 Jan 2011 at 7:01 am 44.Severin said …

41 derek
“Maybe you fail to read about loving your neighbor as yourself.”

Was it written in the same book which calls for killing of your own children in case they disobey you?
In the same book that teaches us to stone “consumed” brides?
In the same book in which god, to give us example of morality we should follow, kills the whole population, including children?

I know the book! It is disgusting. It is a book of hate.

Hitler wrote a book full of hate (Mein Kampf, My Struggle).
He justified extermination of “lower races” there, but expressed love for his bitch Blondie.

on 13 Jan 2011 at 7:09 am 45.Severin said …

41 Derek
“But you know, discrimination, hate and murder is OK for atheist!”

You ARE sick! VERY sick!

on 13 Jan 2011 at 12:39 pm 46.Joe said …

The video that starts off this thread is a pretty smart one (one of the very best atheism vids I have ever seen).

Half of the discussion in this thread would have been unnecessary if everybody had listened to the vid carefully before trying to make their points.

on 13 Jan 2011 at 2:06 pm 47.Derek said …

Wot,

You are so funny. In Exodus and Leviticus that is not Christian rules, those are Jewish society rules and customs. No such thing as a Christian in that time period. Notice as well these are penealities for breaking a law (you know the ones you spoke of in your post) therefore they are NOT murder. Stain murdered people who he thought might be a threat. Nice!

Try Love the Lord your God & Love your neighbor as yourself. Those are Jesus’ teaching. Now, if you can point to an incident where a Christian is murdering another individuals under these pretenses you list, I’ll entertain your thoughts.

Otherwise, will you now renounce your atheism?

on 13 Jan 2011 at 2:16 pm 48.rael said …

Derek you miss the point….

Aethism is not a belief structure, and does not offer a set of guidelines or rules to live by. It is a lack of belief. Therefore it has no bearing on an individuals actions in the ways you describe.

Many atheists have problems with religious beliefs because of the acts committed in the name of religion (such as the 911 atrocity)they argue that these events are as a direct result of the belief system supporting them; I’m not so sure about all of them, and certainly christianity in modern times is not as destructive as it used to be. I sometimes think that bad people just use religion as an excuse for thier actions and would find another reason if it didn’t exsist. However, I do think that religion plays a part and responsible believers would do well to argue against such actions and distance themselves from them, which would help to deflect this argument.

on 13 Jan 2011 at 3:02 pm 49.Rostam said …

“Aethism is not a belief structure, and does not offer a set of guidelines or rules to live by.

Rael, wake up and smell the coffee. It is a belief sturcture. The beliefs are these:

Religious are delusional
There is no God
We don’t know what Truth is
There are no moral absolutes
Everything is relative.
The natural world is all there is

Give us break with the lack of belief nonsense. Everyone has beliefs. Because atheism has no guidelines to live by one therefore, gets Stalins, Pol Pots and the rest. Might is Right.

on 13 Jan 2011 at 3:18 pm 50.Severin said …

47 Derek
“In Exodus and Leviticus that is not Christian rules, those are Jewish society rules and customs. No such thing as a Christian in that time period.”

What, the hell, are Jewish “society rules” doing in the Bible?

We were told the Bible was the “word of god”.

How can we distinguish bullshits from god’s words?

on 13 Jan 2011 at 3:29 pm 51.rael said …

# rostam

I agree with point 3,4 and and 6 in your list. I do not agree with the others.

I can’t say that there is no god, I don’t know. I’m an atheist therefore all I say is i don’t believe there is a god(s); this does not preclude the possibility that there may be, I could be wrong and new evidence could come to light

I do not accept that atheism is a belief structure at all. It certainly isn’t for me

on 13 Jan 2011 at 6:54 pm 52.Rostam said …

Rael,

Sounds more like agnostic to me. But, when I come to a site called Godisimiginary and I read theist are delusional all over the site and Richard Dawkins quoted continuously, what other assumption can I make?

Severin,

What? The OT was written for the Hebrew people. It contains History, prophecy, wisdom, culture and psalms. Have you ever read it? You claim you have. How can someone even converse with you?

on 13 Jan 2011 at 9:02 pm 53.Lou said …

Wow rael no moral absolutes? That makes it tough to support a justice system that just haphazardly produces laws. Then again that may be why the US picks and chooses which laws to obey/enforce.

Mr Severin.

In order to debate the OT you probably need to get some background on its origin, the audience and its acceptance into the canon.

on 13 Jan 2011 at 10:09 pm 54.Severin said …

52 Rostam
What “what”?
Why don’t you say “what?” to Derek, why to me?

I read the Bible and I know its history.
I know it is a compilation of hundreds of ancient Jewish texts which Jews take as god’s words.
I also know, that early “Christians” were not Christians at all, but Jewish “revolutionists” who only wanted to do some changes in JEWISH religion and society.
Jesus was one of them, but not he only one.

Knowing it, I never understood Bible as “word of god”, but just as a book, pretty confused one as a historical artifact, with no value except potential cultural and historical value.
I especially never took Bible as my moral guidance.

You, Christians, fill our ears with BIble being the “word of god”!
You, Christians, tell us constantly that Bible is the base of your morality and your “truth”!

Now, suddenly, both Derek and you DENY it!

Derek says Biblicar rules are NOT Christian rules!
He DID say it, read his #47: “In Exodus and Leviticus that is not Christian rules, those are Jewish society rules and customs.“

BEFORE this glorious statement all Christians here not only said Bible was the word of god, but JUSTIFIED the same „rules“ (ugly crimes!) as his „laws“!

Is Bible god’s word or not, I mean FOR YOY?
Are those rules god’s rules or not?
Is Bible source of morality (for you) or not?

Or, shall we start again to pick from the Bible what we need, using our personal criteria, stressing what we like to hear (like “love your neighbor”, which is, btw, the ONLY call for love in the entire Bible) and neglecting (denying!) what we dislike?

HELP!

on 13 Jan 2011 at 10:27 pm 55.Severin said …

53 Lou
Mr. Lou, please read Derek’s posts #47 and my post #54 and help me to understand WHAT are you theist REALLY trying to say about Bible!
WHAT IS BIBLE FOR YOU?

In one moment it is the word of god, and a moral guidance we should all follow.
In the next monet, it is just a list of Jewish society rules and customs, and Christians have nothing to do with it!

Can YOU clearly answer simple questions, to solve my confusion:
IS Bible your source of TRUTH and MORALITY, and which parts of it?
IS Bible god’s word or not, and which parts of it are, and which ones are not?
IS, finally, Bible the very base of Christianity, or just a book from which Christians pick out parts they like, and neglect and deny the parts they dislike?
I told you what is Bible for me, but I am totally confused with YOUR (theist’s) understanding and interpreting of Bible.

HELP, please!

on 13 Jan 2011 at 10:55 pm 56.Lou said …

Mr Severin

I don’t make it a habit of answering questions that are so readily available with just the slightest research. Especially one who claims to be so knowledgeable. Take my word on this, you are not if you must ask. But I am feeling especially generous today.

The Bible is a collection of sacred scripture of both Judaism and Christianity. There is no single version; both the individual books (Biblical canon) and their order vary between denominations. The Jewish Tanakh divides the Hebrew Bible into 24 books, while the same texts are usually arranged as 39 books in Christian Old Testaments. Complete Christian Bibles range from the 66 books of the Protestant canon to the 81 books in the Ethiopian Orthodox Bible.

The Jewish Bible, or Tanakh, is divided into three parts:

(1) the five books of the Torah (“teaching” or “law”) comprise the origins of the Israelite nation, its laws and its covenant with the God of Israel
(2) the Nevi’im (“prophets”) containing the historic account of ancient Israe and Judah plus works of prophecy
(3) the Ketuvim (“writings”), poetic and philosophical works such as the Psalms and the Book of Job.

The Christian Bible is divided into two parts. The first is called the Old Testament, containing the 39 books of Hebrew Scripture, and the second portion is called the New Testament containing a set of 27 books. Christian Bibles include the books of the Hebrew Bible, but arranged in a different order: Jewish Scripture ends with the people of Israel restored to Jerusalem and the temple and the Christian arrangement ends with the book of the prophet Malachi.

on 13 Jan 2011 at 10:58 pm 57.Severin said …

52 Rostam
“Sounds more like agnostic to me.”
I almost can see joy on your face when you say it!
I can see an „Aha!“ in your words!

But, do you know what agnosticism is?

Do you know that SCEPTICISM is the very base of both agnosticism and atheism?
Do you think an agnostic is “closer” to theists and would accept babblings about horses with wings, resurrection, 72 vigins, making man from dust, talking snakes, eternal life, big flood, snakes with feathers, angels of death, satan…
Do you think agnostic would accept Bible (or Kuran) as their moral guidance?

Do not be too happy when you find someone an agnostic!
There is no significant gap between agnostics and atheists!

Agnostics are NOT on your side of the reinbow!
Want to see the list?

on 13 Jan 2011 at 11:11 pm 58.Severin said …

56 Lou
Thank you so much for your generosity!
I alreadu knew everything you kindly wrote for me about the Bible, and more, so you shouldn’t bother so much, but thanks anyway.

However, in your generosity (typically, or was it only a misunderstanding?) you DID NOT answer my questions, that were extremely short and simple:

IS Bible the word of god?
IS Bible the moral guidance we have to obey and follow?
IS Bible the “truth” we have to know and to obey?

Veru simple and short questions calling for simple “yes” or “no” as answers.

Of course, anything more than just “yes” or “no” would be highly appreciated!

on 13 Jan 2011 at 11:35 pm 59.Horatio said …

Sev

As an expert on the Bible YOU should be able to answer those questions, doncha think?

Lou,

We have a saying when something is laid out but yet the opponent can’t seem to make the play.

swing-an-a-miss.

Good luck anyhow. What’s a reinbow?

on 14 Jan 2011 at 8:12 am 60.Severin said …

59 Horatio
„As an expert on the Bible YOU should be able to answer those questions, doncha think?“
As a good atheist, I am very compassionate and am always sorry when I see someone making a fool of himself.
Some theist here got to shit (contradiction, lies), and all of you jumped in your great solidarity to help him to get out, using well known “tricks”: patronizing (Lou), sarcasm (you) …now we can expect new lies soon, again, because your „arsenal“ is poor.

I GAVE my answers in #54, dear Horatio:
„Knowing it, I never understood Bible as “word of god”, but just as a book, pretty confused one as a historical artifact, with no value except potential cultural and historical value.
I especially never took Bible as my moral guidance.“

Then see Derek’s post #47 in which he claims:
„In Exodus and Leviticus that is not Christian rules, those are Jewish society rules and customs.“.

Atheists, have clear opinion about the old book.

You, theists, obviously DO NOT KNOW what to do with the book!
Are you obeying and living according to society rules and customs of ancient Jews?
Are society rules and customs of ancient Jews something you take as „truth“, „absolute morality“, the moral guidance in your lives?

„Yes“ or „no“ will do as answers.

on 14 Jan 2011 at 8:15 am 61.Severin said …

Horatio
“veru” is “very”, “reinbow” is “rainbow”, but what the hell is “doncha”?
Is it English?

on 14 Jan 2011 at 12:17 pm 62.rael said …

#53 lou

no, no such thing as moral absolutes in the sense you mean. it’s an invention of human society in order to allow it to function corectly and control destructive behaviour. They are not universal amongst humans always in history but can change as society develops. Good idea and very useful, but not directed by an unseen supernatural being.

on 14 Jan 2011 at 2:39 pm 63.Tedder said …

“no, no such thing as moral absolutes in the sense you mean. it’s an invention of human society”

Interesting theory. Can you provide absolute proof of this?

on 14 Jan 2011 at 9:54 pm 64.Severin said …

63 Tedder
“Can you provide absolute proof of this?”

I can not, but I am yearning for absolute truth.
I admit I am sceptic about this issue, but I would never forgive myself if I did not find it if it exists.

Can you direct us me to sources?
WHERE can I find the absolute truth?

on 14 Jan 2011 at 9:57 pm 65.Severin said …

63 Tedder
Same for moral absolutes.

I do not believe they exist, but I am ready to accept them instantly if you direct me how/where to find them.

on 14 Jan 2011 at 10:53 pm 66.Lou said …

Horatio said “swing-an-a-miss.”

Would that be strike 3, 5, 7, 37?

I lost count. Don’t wish me luck, I’ve been down the road and it is pointless. No reason to back track.

on 15 Jan 2011 at 7:22 am 67.Severin said …

Gentlemen theists,
Short reminding to your statements and answers you never gave although the questions were yours:

ABSOLUTE TRUTH and ABSOLUTE MORALITY.
You, gentlemen, are waving them befor our noses all the time, but never tell us where can we find them. Where are the sources of them? Where from can we learn something about them?
Can we conclude that you have no clue about what you are talking about?

BIBLE was recently proclaimed by YOU (theists) a list of Jewish social rules and customs that have nothing to do with Christianity.
Are you spending your lives in obeying and following rules and customs of ancient Jews?

Are rules and customs of ancient Jews “absolute truth” and “absolute morality” you follow in your lives?

If not, what OTHER sources of those glorious virtues can you point?

Try to be consistent, gentlemen!
Don’t run away!

How can anyone take you seriously if you mention “absolute truth” and “absolute morality” so frequently, but have no clue what they are and where can they be found.

How can anyone take you seriously if you mention the Bible as “god’s word” one day, and proclaim it just “social rules and customs of ancient Jews” the next day?

on 15 Jan 2011 at 1:10 pm 68.Hoatio said …

Severin,

You want the Truth! You can’t handle the truth!!

You have a great number of hurdles to overcome first like reading in context. Take your statement below.

“BIBLE was recently proclaimed by YOU (theists) a list of Jewish social rules and customs that have nothing to do with Christianity.”

It is nowhere on the thread. See, you misread and took out of context what you wanted to see. This is why Scripture has you so confused.

Anyhow, if you do want to discover the truth (not an argument), you will need some tools first. I recommend this book below.

Hoat,
Nice quote from a movie. Actually, we atheists think that about you. What would you do once you realized there is no god or afterlife? If the truth one day shows that there is a god, then I am sure I can handle it since I would welcome it. I would be glad that there would be an afterlife. Would you be glad if you found out there isn’t one?