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Michigan: "Right to Work" Pending Law

I'm just confused why you don't put your money where your mouth is. First you were to small to have a union then when I proved that's not possible now you just magically pay then above that and they shouldn't unionize

LOL, You havent proved anything other then a childish insistence to argue thing of which you are ignorant.
I am too small to have a union:
In contrast to plant locals, local craft unions (as well as some industrial unions) are best described as area locals . An area local represents all of a union's members in a particular geographical region and may deal with many different employers. Area locals are typically formed for one of two reasons. First, members may in the course of a year work for a number of different employers, as in the case of craft unions. Consequently, it would be difficult, if not impossible, to establish and maintain a separate local in each work location. Second, members may work continuously for a single employer, but each employer or location may be too small to justify a separate local union. The latter case is more typical of some industrial unions. The size of the region served by a local union depends on the number of members available. In large metropolitan areas, an area local might serve only members in a particular city. In less densely populated regions, an area local may have a jurisdiction that covers an entire state.

My father ws a District attorney, My mother a computer programmer.I grew up in one of the wealthiest per capita cities in Ca.I was raised under Republican ideals and voted down party Lines as an adult.
My parents didnt believe in providing any safety net, they had done it alone so I should be able to as well. I was on my own @ 18.I Joined the AirForce as a jumping off point and to cut this biography short, I have had periods of great success and great hardship in my life,I now own my own buissness and the one truth I know about this existence is the pursuit of wealth is a pointless, foolish and selfish endeavor, your not taking a penny of it into the ground with you buddy.I over pay my employees because providing others a livable wage is more important then driving a Jaguar,I overpay them so they can go out into the economy and afford to go on vacation once a year, or take their kids to disneyland.Most of what people Buy with their 'fortune" revolves around feeling good about themselves.hey everyone..look how nice my car is. look how big my house is, look at how Hot my gold digging wife is ,I bet you wish you were me!!
well I dont,And I dont seek material wealth, it is a pathetic distraction,no differnt then getting hooked on dope.what matters is each other and nothing else my friend.

I wrote that three months ago in the union thread, so your "magically" implication is as empty as your attempts to B.S. your way through this discussion,

The worst part about it is that, all I come here for is to hopefully share things I have learned over the last 50 years so that you younger guys can have a better future for yourselves and your kids, but all you seem interested in doing is arguing that the sky is green and the grass is blue....

The worst part about it is that, all I come here for is to hopefully share things I have learned over the last 50 years so that you younger guys can have a better future for yourselves and your kids, but all you seem interested in doing is arguing that the sky is green and the grass is blue....

There is something you are sorely missing in your posts though and at this point I am not sure you even understand it. Every single one of your posts are extremely condescending. There is no discussion with you on any matter you are always right no matter what. There is no give and take its always the same you talking down to whatever person who disagrees with your point. Calling someone childish and ignorant is a pretty piss poor way of developing a dialogue on anything. It is possible to disagree with someone without being disagreeable. You act as some old wise sage sent down from the mountain tops to save all of us which is just not the case and that act has gotten old and stale for pretty much everyone you have come in contact with on here. Just my humble opinion so you can do with it what you please.

LOL, You havent proved anything other then a childish insistence to argue thing of which you are ignorant.

French writer Alexis de Tocqueville warned about when visiting this fledgling democracy in the early 19th century – that this "American republic will endure until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money."

I get that some of you feel that way, but what you are missing at time yourself is that some facts have no give and take, they are simply facts.

once upon a time in this country the republican agenda was very closely aligned with what you are now seeing from Democrats.

Now for the last 30 years, there has been a avalanche of lies,and twisting of facts to support an end game that you obviously are oblivious to.

it is a fact that several Rt wing "entertainers have been bilking their audience.
Do you see the MSM, or even Msnbc encouraging people to donate to the liberal cause?
they just dont do it, but hannity does, Glen Beck does,Limbaugh and Oriely do,Like I shared earlier, one Fox news personality, was taking donations to his superpac and buying access to his own email list in return.
so basically paying himself with your donations.

Ive encouraged you and everyone else to research my satements yourself, people then said it was my responsibility to support my comments with a link, so Ive done that over and over, now the links arent good enough either apparently.

wealth concentration has been proven to be a direct cause of crime,health problems, mental health and drug issues...Unions reversed that trend by creating more wealth and income equality.

all that has happened is a redistribution of wealth away from workers to the ownership class and the passing of costs onto tax payers.

Most of you are under 30, so you really dont know anything about what things were like before the last 10 years or so that you have been in the Job market, but you want to tell me, how things were...so please tell me what do you call that?
childish?juevenile? i mean seriously, what is a proper discriptor for that behaviour..I understand I do get a little worked up, but Often it is like debating wether or not WWE is real with my Godson.

Hes 11 and nothing I can say will convince him its not real, i mean they even BLEED and stuff...how could it be fake?

The ideals of the fiscal conservatism have been perverted just as entirely as terrorist pervert Islam, but becasue people have chosen to become insular in their media sources they refuse to think independently.

OMG, Pat buchanon is on Gretta Van sustrens show RIGHT NOW repeating exactly what I told you three months ago HCF.

Buisnesses shuttered plants, moved production to china for .25 cents an hour and pocketed the additional profits....EVEN pat buchanon is starting to embrace what he can no longer hide from people, gretta just shut him up and ended the segment,LOLOLOL

I get that some of you feel that way, but what you are missing at time yourself is that some facts have no give and take, they are simply facts.

I disagree you can take a set of facts and draw completely different opinions from them. Doesn't make either opinion any less valid being at the end its just opinion. Very few on here sit there and believe what they are stating is absolute fact. It is merely the posters opinion.

it is a fact that several Rt wing "entertainers have been bilking their audience.
Do you see the MSM, or even Msnbc encouraging people to donate to the liberal cause?
they just dont do it, but hannity does, Glen Beck does,Limbaugh and Oriely do,Like I shared earlier, one Fox news personality, was taking donations to his superpac and buying access to his own email list in return.
so basically paying himself with your donations.

What does this have to do with anything I said? I don't honestly care what these men do. Can't stand Hannity never could even when he had his show with Alan Colmes. Honestly really liked Beck prior to him going on TV at Headline News. Used to listen to his entire show 5 days a week being I worked delivery during that time. As far as the rest don't care don't listen to them. Catch snipits of Rush from time to time if I am in my vehicle. Can't tell you the last time I saw O'Reilly. But none of that matters because it has nothing to do with what I posted.

Ive encouraged you and everyone else to research my satements yourself, people then said it was my responsibility to support my comments with a link, so Ive done that over and over, now the links arent good enough either apparently.

If your going to pose something as actual fact its generally protocol to have something that at least remotely backs up your information. Beyond that to be honest I don't care enough personally to take the time to research your posts its just not worth the time in my opinion. Hence you may have noticed I haven't responded to your posts in quite some time.

Most of you are under 30, so you really dont know anything about what things were like before the last 10 years or so that you have been in the Job market, but you want to tell me, how things were...so please tell me what do you call that?
childish?juevenile? i mean seriously, what is a proper discriptor for that behaviour..I understand I do get a little worked up, but Often it is like debating wether or not WWE is real with my Godson.

I would venture to guess that this is pretty incorrect. That may be true for this site as a whole but this particular corner of it I don't believe. I would guess that a majority on this board are probably closer to mid 30's though again I could be wrong.

It isn't the descripting words you use but the manner in which you use them.

CONDESCENDING

: showing or characterized by a patronizing or superior attitude toward others

This definition fits the vast majority of your posts to a T. And that is what I was trying to get across. Your posts are very condescending which rubs people the wrong way right off the bat. You put them on the defensive pretty much elimitaing any chance of there being any meaningful discussion.

The ideals of the fiscal conservatism have been perverted just as entirely as terrorist pervert Islam, but becasue people have chosen to become insular in their media sources they refuse to think independently.

The ideals of fiscal conservatism have not been perverted but the people who are supposed to promote those ideals have. It is the whole I didn't leave the party the party left me situation. That is the situation I find myself in currently as I don't agree with much of what is in the GOP platform. The sooner they get back to true fiscal conservatism the sooner they start winning national elections again. The principles are still as strong today as they have ever been just the men/women promoting them are not.

French writer Alexis de Tocqueville warned about when visiting this fledgling democracy in the early 19th century – that this "American republic will endure until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money."

Ive encouraged you and everyone else to research my satements yourself, people then said it was my responsibility to support my comments with a link, so Ive done that over and over, now the links arent good enough either apparently.

Which I did. You posted a link to a study about the impact of right to work laws. I posted a link in response, stating that, overall, studies on right to work laws have been mixed.

Your response to my point was to copy and paste directly from an article you posted earlier in what was one of the more bizarre responses I've ever seen. Who does that? You even copied the guy's email address from the bottom of the article.

Listen, it's not that you're condescending. It's that you're condescending while having no idea what the **** you're talking about, and while engaging in some of the most bizarre argumentation I've ever seen.

In one of our first arguments, I made a post that was just nonsense. I made statements that had no meaning just to sort of mock your argument style. You ****ing responded, man. You didn't even notice that what I posted was gibberish. What the ****?

So. You cop this condescending attitude but have shown a severe lack of critical thinking skills, a severe lack of writing skills, and a severe lack of reading comprehension skills.

You've claimed personal expertise in the fields of: 1) mental health; 2) military strategy; 3) economics; and 4) business. But you have ****ed up really basic concepts in all of those subjects.

OMG, Pat buchanon is on Gretta Van sustrens show RIGHT NOW repeating exactly what I told you three months ago HCF.

Buisnesses shuttered plants, moved production to china for .25 cents an hour and pocketed the additional profits....EVEN pat buchanon is starting to embrace what he can no longer hide from people, gretta just shut him up and ended the segment,LOLOLOL

SAN FRANCISCO/NEW YORK (Reuters) - Apple Inc plans to move some production of Macintosh computers to the United States from China next year, Chief Executive Tim Cook said in remarks published on Thursday, in what could be a important test of the nascent comeback in U.S. electronics manufacturing.

And Apple is looking at moving at least one production line back to the US from China. It works both ways. And are these private companies you speak of? If so sure they are pocketing what is left after the move. If they are public that money is going to their share holders. Either way it doesn't just end with cutting the wages to .25 cents. Other costs such as shipping go way up offsetting the gain in lower wages. Companies move all the time that is nothing new. If they choose to move over seas so be it. It is up to the states to create environments that attract them to stay or have new companies take their place. That is what is hoped and seemingly to be working here in Indiana with new businesses moving here creating jobs pointing directly at times to the new right to work legislation. Which reportedly was part of the reason for the change of heart in Michigan's governor.

French writer Alexis de Tocqueville warned about when visiting this fledgling democracy in the early 19th century – that this "American republic will endure until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money."

Which I did. You posted a link to a study about the impact of right to work laws. I posted a link in response, stating that, overall, studies on right to work laws have been mixed.

Your response to my point was to copy and paste directly from an article you posted earlier in what was one of the more bizarre responses I've ever seen. Who does that? You even copied the guy's email address from the bottom of the article.

Listen, it's not that you're condescending. It's that you're condescending while having no idea what the **** you're talking about, and while engaging in some of the most bizarre argumentation I've ever seen.

In one of our first arguments, I made a post that was just nonsense. I made statements that had no meaning just to sort of mock your argument style. You ****ing responded, man. You didn't even notice that what I posted was gibberish. What the ****?

So. You cop this condescending attitude but have shown a severe lack of critical thinking skills, a severe lack of writing skills, and a severe lack of reading comprehension skills.

You've claimed personal expertise in the fields of: 1) mental health; 2) military strategy; 3) economics; and 4) business. But you have ****ed up really basic concepts in all of those subjects.

Ive been spot on in every one of them, I dressed down you and everyone else who has provided the same empty grade school analysis of your knowledge and not a single one of any point Ive made to you ,pats fan, HCF, or Flipp has been factually refuted.
You talk about that gibberish you were spouting in my Democrat thread...I called you out on it everytime genius, and the more I exposed you for your ignorance thye more you spun out of control(lol).

"that guy" lol, Yeah, you mean those Phds that did a specific study on the matter as opposed to the source you presented that once again as you are wont to do prefaced the opinion you shared with them saying they didnt study it at length.
So we have one PHD, whos work on the matter is described as "exhaustive" and one whos depth is described as cursory at best, but that should refute each other(lol)
Then I provided another PHD who has documented the effects of wealth concentration on society, who has been published and recieved his PHD at Harvard, and you convienently side step anything which doesnt prop up your house of cards.

You tried to present economic theory as fact.Bottom line, you got caught liying and youve been desperate to save face somehow ever since(lol)
grow up son, Havent you been humiliated enough, Ive recieved several PMs howling with laughter at how utterly I evicerated you, but I ,just like when Flip PMed me, simply express my desire to see the truth be told.

And Apple is looking at moving at least one production line back to the US from China. It works both ways. And are these private companies you speak of? If so sure they are pocketing what is left after the move. If they are public that money is going to their share holders. Either way it doesn't just end with cutting the wages to .25 cents. Other costs such as shipping go way up offsetting the gain in lower wages. Companies move all the time that is nothing new. If they choose to move over seas so be it. It is up to the states to create environments that attract them to stay or have new companies take their place. That is what is hoped and seemingly to be working here in Indiana with new businesses moving here creating jobs pointing directly at times to the new right to work legislation. Which reportedly was part of the reason for the change of heart in Michigan's governor.

Buchanon wa addressing the overall exudos of buisness since the early 80s, You guys are to funny though, You presented an inacurate fact from our very first encounter, you tried to assert that US manufacturing jobs have not been lost to forign entities and provided a link showng US percentage of world wide production, but it is a historical and fully documneted fact that we have lost a HUGE percentage of Manufacturing Jobs in this country

You inturn ignored it...completely, you didnt say, "well numbers can be twisted" or "its a matter of opinon" you just practice selective amnesia when faced with a rebuttal.

similarly with Gcoll, He insisted that Supply side theory was Fact.
He still cant bring himself to admit that it is Theory.
then he tryed to pass of GDP per capita as a acurate refernece when anyone who understands it knows that it is not at all an indication of Income levels, then he ntried to say standards of living have been rising , while ignoring that fact I just provided that it has stoppped rising with the decline of labor, and just like with you, when confronted with his ignorance he trys to instigate a confrontation by insulting my grammer(yeah, I dont spend much time using spell check, AND?) Or writing foolish commentary thinking he has "gotten it past me and isnt he soo clever!' lolololol

Patsfan and I had a heated exchange and for the most part, he has manned up and acknowledged the accuracy of my perspective on thye matter of Behngazi, and every other Vet in here supported everything I wrote ...never mind that exactly what i said two months ago on the subject is exactly what is being reported now.LOLOL
Flip, PMed me and acknowledged that it appeared to him I had studied the subject matter but asked to not continue the debate in front of YOU (gcol) since you were the only one offering any othe commentary.
so
yes, I am knowledgeable on every subject that I have posted on to a degree which IMO opinion is greater then the ideas some og you have presented, if that has upset some of you I would only suggest that ,once again if you care about the subject amtter, research it yourself.

Just as an example ,BMD and I were discussing production costs.
Not trying to embarrass him or anything, but he offered as a point of contention "profits are consumed in shipping costs to a large degree".

That is simply not true, things seem to popo into some of your heads and just becasue it seems reasonable, you try and pass it off as fact or Knowledge you have.
here is the acurate information

500.00 dollars per container, less then the cost of one full time employee making minimum wage with benefits.
I dont know why some of you guys just spout stuff.
Its like its a big game or something in your head...
whic brings us to Gcoll...Your mentality in concerning yourself with what other have said about you says everything that needs to be said about your need for validation(lol) how did I know that ,that was gonna happen(LOL)
believe or dont believe whatever you want son,I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else, PMs are just that Private, If anyone wanted to say something directly to you, I would imagine they would.your calling B.S. has about as much weight with me as a mousefart.

BTW, you spent a month extolling the principles of supply side economics, and it appears you dont even know what the term means, everything you presented in our debate was supply side theory...Better get your money back on that "degree".....

Your mentality in concerning yourself with what other have said about you says everything that needs to be said about your need for validation(lol)

It's not about me being validated. It's about you proving a claim you made.

You do not have that proof, because you are lying. See. You can't prove that you were in the military, or that you are an incredibly successful and also very generous business man, or any of those things. Nor can I disprove them. But you could easily prove whether or not you received PMs "howling with laughter."

Originally Posted by stephkyle7

BTW, you spent a month extolling the principles of supply side economics, and it appears you dont even know what the term means, everything you presented in our debate was supply side theory...Better get your money back on that "degree"

My beliefs overlap with supply siders. But we part ways on some key issues. The big one being the benefits of tax cuts as stimulus.