Lee’s invasion of the North intended to close the war.All vanished at Gettysburg July 1st, 2nd & 3rd 1863with war’s largest casualties and the end of Lee’s offensives

my intention is to catch the dynamic of those three days of battlewhen despite all Confederate initiatives Lee couldn't break the Union stronghold carefully planned by Meadethe map is structured around two main ideasthe heaviness of the chain of command in those daysusing the pair General & Troops bonus and the conditional border with the oneway attack to Armies Commanders in order to be able to plan a frontal assaultand the dynamic of three days of battleusing the weakness of some pair position to be attacked first as it did happen

+1 per turn without bonus for territories+1 each General & Troops pairs (recognisable by the name)-1 decay on each Battlefield

conditional bordersin order to attack through a Battlefield you must hold the respective Corps or Army Commander of the attacking Troopsexample: to attack Rock Creek Johnson Troops must hold Ewell (Corps) or Lee (Army)

1. The city is "Hanover" not "Hannover". It's named after Hannover, Germany but they Americanized the spelling.2. Does Cavalry have any special attack or role? Otherwise I think they'll just be ignored the entire game. I'd try to think of something that they can do.3. Possibly put a cannon beside/near the Corps Commanders and maybe the Army commanders to show the bombardment option?4. Try to make the map background a little darker so we get more of the map feel? I think it's too light right now, I'd rather see more of a map with the gameplay as an overlay.5. Lee is attacked by 3 people, while Meade is attacked by 7. It's unbalanced, but I'm not sure it will be a huge issue. 6. I would call them "battlefields" or something similar. "Fightfield" isn't a term used in English.7. In the legend, under Reinforcements, change the first line to read "+1 per turn, no territory bonus" or "+1 per turn (no territory bonus)"8. The title should be "Battle of Gettysburg" as that is what it is commonly called.9. Under "Chain of Command" I would say that they "... one way attack their respective ..."10. I would remove the +1 and -1 in the "Map Legend" area since you have that under reinforcements. I think it's slightly confusing.

I really like the idea, and I think it has a lot of the things that I liked about Austerlitz with none of the things that I didn't.

I have a little problem to read legend.the background should be more visible. or draw basic things as roads, woods.what needs to hold Slocum army to attacks Rock Creek? I assume Meade, but which union general?I think you should add more things to legend. all symbols used on map would be explained in legend.maybe you can use different symbols for Corps Commanders and other generals.

DJoach wrote:Sounds very good Pamoa !!! I can' t stand to try it ! GJ pal

ironsij0287 wrote:Looks cool. I like that it's not insanely big and complex. I'm not a big fan of games that require more time reading than actual playing.

Ace Rimmer wrote:I really like the idea, and I think it has a lot of the things that I liked about Austerlitz with none of the things that I didn't.

Oneyed wrote:the theme is great and map looks very promissing. good work, pamoa

thanks all for your support

Gameplay

Frito Bandito wrote:So, are corp commanders considered to be artillery?

Ace Rimmer wrote:Possibly put a cannon beside/near the Corps Commanders and maybe the Army commanders to show the bombardment option?

Corp and Army Commanders are not proper artillery they cannot bombard on the fieldthe idea is to introduce the artillery theme in a indirect wayfield artillery was more for breaking assaults than annihilating troopsit was also used as moral breaking tool as preparation to an assaultso you can block a frontal assault through a Fightfield by bombing Corp or Army Commander and blocking the conditionnal border

Ace Rimmer wrote:Does Cavalry have any special attack or role? Otherwise I think they'll just be ignored the entire game. I'd try to think of something that they can do.

no special attack I want to keep a minimum of special featurethey are here to open the attack possibilitiesand because they did really fight

Ace Rimmer wrote:Lee is attacked by 3 people, while Meade is attacked by 7. It's unbalanced, but I'm not sure it will be a huge issue.

well as a dead end they are not an objective for themselvesbut as the key that open an assault through Fightfield you havefor Union 7 Generals attacking Meade which open attack for them allfor Confederate 2 or 3 Generals attacking their respective Corp Commander which open attack for the Corp onlyand then 3 Confederate Corp Commander attacking one way Lee which open all Fightfield

Oneyed wrote:what needs to hold Slocum army to attacks Rock Creek? I assume Meade, but which union general?

you don't need a General to attack through Fightfielddirect orders from Corp or Army Commanders are sufficient

Graphics

Ace Rimmer wrote:The city is "Hanover" not "Hannover". It's named after Hannover, Germany but they Americanized the spelling.

Ace Rimmer wrote:In the legend, under Reinforcements, change the first line to read "+1 per turn, no territory bonus" or "+1 per turn (no territory bonus)"

Ace Rimmer wrote:Under "Chain of Command" I would say that they "... one way attack their respective ..."

to be done

Ace Rimmer wrote:The title should be "Battle of Gettysburg" as that is what it is commonly called.

pamoa, nice map and want to see this go on but I have some observations that I hope you can clear up for me. These are all for my benefit to help me understand the map better and therefore help you better.

Chain of Command.Union Generals and confed corp commanders one way take control of their respective army commanders. If I am reading this right, Hill 3 corps commander one way attacks Pender/Heath and Anderson. So who attacks Hill?Assault conditions.Even with your example, it took me about 5 minutes to work out all of the others and right now I am still not sure. Andersons troops need Hill to attack through Long Lane. Correct?Reinforcements.Territ bonus is fine but might be a little low and games might start very slow. +1 for generals and his troops. This is going to give an advantage to the player going first is it not? If I am reading the map right, the general will start with 3 troops and the army one troop. Will these be coded together so a player gets both for the +1 straight out? -1 for troops in a fightfield (battlefield sounds better). Decay or bonus? Please be clear on this point.Victory Condition.If you get this far, you have already won the game and seems pointless to have it. How about holding Lee and Meade for the win? Only able to attack them if you hold any two commanders on the field.

Other things. Skyes is behind a 2 neutral and gets an advantage.Images. Any copyrights involved?Legend text. very small and hard to read. Why not make Lee and Meade smaller and the legend bigger to solve this.

koontz1973 wrote:Chain of Command.Union Generals and confed corp commanders one way take control of their respective army commanders. If I am reading this right, Hill 3 corps commander one way attacks Pender/Heath and Anderson. So who attacks Hill?

koontz1973 wrote:Assault conditions.Even with your example, it took me about 5 minutes to work out all of the others and right now I am still not sure. Andersons troops need Hill to attack through Long Lane. Correct?

koontz1973 wrote:Reinforcements.Territ bonus is fine but might be a little low and games might start very slow. +1 for generals and his troops. This is going to give an advantage to the player going first is it not?

in 1vs1 with +5 it will be easy to take territories with 1 troop more risky for those with 3it is ment to be so to reflect the actual timeline of the battle

koontz1973 wrote:If I am reading the map right, the general will start with 3 troops and the army one troop. Will these be coded together so a player gets both for the +1 straight out?

yes it will be coded as soas I told in the first post"28 starting positions coded by pair = 7 + 7 General & Troops pairs"

koontz1973 wrote:-1 for troops in a fightfield (battlefield sounds better). Decay or bonus? Please be clear on this point.

decay will be specified

koontz1973 wrote:Victory Condition.If you get this far, you have already won the game and seems pointless to have it. How about holding Lee and Meade for the win? Only able to attack them if you hold any two commanders on the field.

it may seems sobut as it is complicated to attack through the Fightfield you are encouraged to take control of one side and so win without too great lossesI'm pretty much against a rush on Army CommandersIt would have to be at least neutral 15 or 20 and then you will never use the conditional border

koontz1973 wrote:Skyes is behind a 2 neutral and gets an advantage.

how thatyou don't get any bonus of Gen. Skyes aloneyou need his troops which are pretty much exposed

Graphics

koontz1973 wrote:Images. Any copyrights involved?

as said above its a draft for which I used the Ditterline mapif the map goes further I'll work on the background again as for the routes between units

koontz1973 wrote:Legend text. very small and hard to read. Why not make Lee and Meade smaller and the legend bigger to solve this.

its the small map 630x600the large one will be more readablethe actual layout is obviously not definitive but will be re-worked later when gameplay is more settled

sm8900 by pm wrote:if you put Stuart in on the battlefield, why not put in Custer as well? since he's the one who fought Stuart.

as I understood from this source and this this one Gregg was leading is division with the help of Custer's brigade (lower in rank)that's why I put Gregg as higher officer

Thanks for the info pamoa. I knew I was wrong about the attacks but I thought it better to ask. Is there anyway to make it clearer either graphically or legend wording so players can understand it without having to look at a graph?

28 starting positions coded by pair = 7 + 7 General & Troops pairs.

What about 8 player games? Everyone will start random and only have the +1, and someone may drop a bonus whilst others not. Out of the 7 starting positions, how many will be given out in 1v1 games? If it is 3 each, player one starts with 4 troops and has an overwhelming advantage from the start?

With the fightfields, is there any way these can be moved so players have to use them. Right now, you do not need to and with a 2 neutral on them and the small bonuses, why would a player use them?

Some one way arrows to explain those attack routes would be of a great help in understanding things.

Skyes has a slight advantage for a player who starts with him because of the neutrals, but it is only slight and I noticed that Sedgewick also has it. No big thing but something to keep in mind later in GP.

pamoa wrote:if the map goes further I'll work on the background again as for the routes between units

Why would this map not go any further? You have support for it but I will ask you to get any copyrights sorted out ASAP.

koontz1973 wrote:Territ bonus is fine but might be a little low and games might start very slow.

I also thought of a +1 autodeploy on each General but removed for it could be too muchmaybe should I put it back

koontz1973 wrote:Thanks for the info pamoa. I knew I was wrong about the attacks but I thought it better to ask. Is there anyway to make it clearer either graphically or legend wording so players can understand it without having to look at a graph?

What about 8 player games? Everyone will start random and only have the +1, and someone may drop a bonus whilst others not. Out of the 7 starting positions, how many will be given out in 1v1 games? If it is 3 each, player one starts with 4 troops and has an overwhelming advantage from the start?

14 pairs of starting is enough for 14 players to start evenand 1vs 1 will get 4 pairs each

koontz1973 wrote:With the fightfields, is there any way these can be moved so players have to use them. Right now, you do not need to and with a 2 neutral on them and the small bonuses, why would a player use them?

I think they will be used as it is a big way around the 3 ones on the leftbut I will lower them to 1 neutral and we will see in beta

koontz1973 wrote:Some one way arrows to explain those attack routes would be of a great help in understanding things.

it isn't possiblehow would you read the map with 3 Confederate and 7 Union arrows all over the map to end on the 2 Army Commanders

koontz1973 wrote:Skyes has a slight advantage for a player who starts with him because of the neutrals, but it is only slight and I noticed that Sedgewick also has it. No big thing but something to keep in mind later in GP.

beta will tell

koontz1973 wrote:

pamoa wrote:if the map goes further I'll work on the background again as for the routes between units

Why would this map not go any further? You have support for it but I will ask you to get any copyrights sorted out ASAP.

you didn't understood meI said I will redo a background myself later when in graphic stagebut to make my draft readable I'm using this map temporarilyso there will never be any copyright issue

I also thought of a +1 autodeploy on each General but removed for it could be too muchmaybe should I put it back

Wait for the game play mods to look at it and see what they say.

14 pairs of starting is enough for 14 players to start evenand 1vs 1 will get 4 pairs each

Thanks. This might give a big advantage to player one but wait again and see what ian and nole say.

it isn't possiblehow would you read the map with 3 Confederate and 7 Union arrows all over the map to end on the 2 Army Commanders

Sorry, I meant for the Anderson to Hill connections. A small arrow head at the end to denote it is one way would suffice.

you didn't understood meI said I will redo a background myself later when in graphic stagebut to make my draft readable I'm using this map temporarilyso there will never be any copyright issue

I did understand you, but you are already in the graphics phase of things. Sorry pamoa for not making myself clear, but I cannot let this out till the copyrights are sorted. I am sure a different jpeg can be found or why not start on the background now.

koontz1973 wrote:I did understand you, but you are already in the graphics phase of things. Sorry pamoa for not making myself clear, but I cannot let this out till the copyrights are sorted. I am sure a different jpeg can be found or why not start on the background now.

I'm going to help out here a bit. I went and took a look at the link pamoa posted and it is in public domain so pamoa is free to use it as he pleases!

pamoa wrote:how would you read the map with 3 Confederate and 7 Union arrows all over the map to end on the 2 Army Commanders

Sorry, I meant for the Anderson to Hill connections. A small arrow head at the end to denote it is one way would suffice.

it is only the Confederate Corp Commander to Confederate Army Commander (Lee) link which is one waythe Confederate General to Confederate Corp Commander is two waysat least for now but if you think it should be one way then tell me why

isaiah40 wrote:I'm going to help out here a bit. I went and took a look at the link pamoa posted and it is in public domain

thanks isaiah I wasn't sure of ithowever I'll try to make my own background when gameplay stamped

pamoa wrote:how would you read the map with 3 Confederate and 7 Union arrows all over the map to end on the 2 Army Commanders

Sorry, I meant for the Anderson to Hill connections. A small arrow head at the end to denote it is one way would suffice.

it is only the Confederate Corp Commander to Confederate Army Commander (Lee) link which is one waythe Confederate General to Confederate Corp Commander is two waysat least for now but if you think it should be one way then tell me why

Nope, leave it as is. But consider me one of the average players that likes to play lots of maps and if I have had this trouble understanding, consider the rest of the poor slobs. But, this is more for the game play side of the foundry.

well if you look more closely Wheatfield is on the mapbetween Sickles/Birney Peach Orchard and Sickles/Birney Cemetery Ridgefor the source thank youI already used it as a base for this mapas I said to sm8900 in my last answer

pamoa wrote:well if you look more closely Wheatfield is on the mapbetween Sickles/Birney Peach Orchard and Sickles/Birney Cemetery Ridge

Oneyed wrote:I see it. I mean to move it from between Sickles/Birney Peach Orchard and Sickles/Birney Cemetery Ridgeto between SICKLES/BIRNEY Peach Orchad and MC LAW.

well that would be geographically incorrectas you can see here Wheatfield is situated between Peach Orchard and Little Round Topit was Hood who attacked Wheatfield Road behind Sickles position in Peach Orchard as Mc Law attacked him frontallyso in my next version I'll move the Hood Devil's Den - Sickles/Birney Peach Orchard attack routeto Hood Devil's Den - Wheatfield Battlefield

Oneyed wrote:I think you should use battlefields for fightfields, because name of map is Field of Gettysburg, not Battlefield of Gettysburg.