Now that the NDA is lifted, I thought I could share some of my experiences with Warhammer Online, which I have played into the Closed Beta.

First and foremost, I'd like to do it in the eye of an FFXI player. Second, I just want to share my experiences with this game. I love FFXI and in no way I want to criticize this game.

I think it might interest a few of you. If really this thread should be posted elsewhere, please move it, but read the thread first. I really want to do it with FFXI in mind.

But first, my background as an MMO player. FFXI is my only real experience of MMORPG (except a one week trial of City of Villains), and I started... wow... 3 years ago. I do not do endgame (the "closest" I do is Assault), but I have a well developped character and an awesome social linkshell. And I still have fun with this game.

Character creation : well, you chose a race, then from that race, you chose a job. And that's it, you'll be that job forever, which is a major difference from our game. (But you can create lots of characters). Then you have a little more character customization choices, like face types, ear types (for goblins), eye color, etc.

Into the game : I played two races as of now. Goblin Squig herder lvl 9 and Elf Swordmaster lvl 11. The first thing you feel in the game, is the atmosphere. While you begin your life in FFXI in a peaceful kingdom, full of helpful npcs, in WAR, well there's war everywhere. And I really mean everywhere. As a goblin, everywhere I meant, there was always some "stunties" to bash around (dwarfs for you normal-speaking people), and as an elf, plenty of dark elves. Many monsters are aggressive also, and there's also plenty of them. But I found that avoiding monsters was really easier than in FFXI. There's simply so much more room. And their aggro range is very, very small.

After that, you realize what you have to do quite fast. Quest NPC are clearly identified (which is different from FFXI). You go see them, they give you a quest, and, directly on your map, you can see where to go to actually resolve that quest (be it monsters to kill, treasures to find, npc talking or area scouting). I loved that.

And quests gives you xp. As is killing monsters. As is discovering new areas. As is unlocking new lore. As is... well, you gain xp for everything. And I really mean everything. I gained an xp reward for dropping 10 items out of my inventory (and a new tome unlock and title).

As you can probably guess, xp is easier to get, so grouping for xp is... well... unnecessary. I found this quite settling. My goblin (first character) went to level 6 without speaking to anyone. BUT...

If you actually want to group... it is very easy. Whenever you enter a new area (and everytime you check on your menu), you can check for "open parties". You see one, you join it. Simple as that. But why would you group? I found that grouping was very useful for RvR (more on that later) and Public Quest. Public Quest, are, in my mind, one of the most amazing thing in this game. There are several areas on each maps where it's a Public quest area. Think of it maybe as a campaign battle area. You have clear objectives once you enter those zones. An example : Stage 1 - Kill 100 dwarves (cumulative for everyone). Stage 2 - Go get beer barrels to the big Giant (yep, I did it). Stage 3 - Kill the big boss and his underlings. Grouping helps, because every kills or accomplishments done by your party gives you some xp and renown, so it's better than being alone. Also, when a PQ ends, you are ranked for renown (and xp reward) and randomly ranked for loot (I think accomplishment may have positive effects on this random thing, but I'm not sure). The loot you get always contain something useful for you own job.

RvR (or PvP). Of course, this is probably the biggest difference with FFXI. At first, I was afraid that everywhere I'll go, there would be dumb players ready to kill me at every chances, but it's not the case. There are two types of RvR I noticed (maybe more, only lvl 11, remember). First are scenarios. Once you discover them, you can always join them (when they happen) and you are teleported there when they begin. In those scenarios, every players have their level adjusted to be equals (but you keep every abilities you know). There, you have goals, which of course are the opposite of your ennemies.

I played some Ballista, and was not very very good at it... and I think I may sucked even more in RvR. But it was fun. Dying ain't very bad, you spawn near your starting point... and everyone dies often anyway. But I think that I may have encountered many players coming from more PvP-centered game with more experience than myself, it showed on their strategies and abilities to play. Anyway, another benefit of grouping shine in RvR, of course, since you have access to party buffs and more protection.

The game interface is well done... but I must say, the chat window (even if it can be adjusted), is still bugging me, from my FFXI player point of view. It is SO SMALL. I miss alot of things going in there. I much prefer the FFXI one. Otherwise, you can customize everything in the menu, which is nice.

Finally... sorry it's long... although there is a lot of story in WAR... it's really not story-centric like FF. NPC really feel less "involved". They speak to you in a bubble, tell a little of their story, and off you go to complete a quest. You can have more of the background story in the Tome of Knowledge, but you are not involved at all in it. Do not play this game and expect to be as involved as in FF. I have seen no CutScenes. No interactions between NPC (except those that are fighting... and they are everywhere, like I said). From an FFXI point of view, it's one of the reason I'll still play FF. Storywise, FF (even if you do not count expansions) is richer.

So that's it. If you read it through, you can see the differences between the games. I think I'll enjoy both of them (nope, I'm not quitting FFXI). If you join WAR, have fun, because it is, and have a good WAAAGH! If not, keep enjoying FFXI, it's a wonderful game.

Thank you for this review Rogatien! Please update us on more (maybe on this original thread) as you level up and experience more of Warhammer Online! I think that a review from a fellow FFXI player on new games such as these really help me decide whether I even want to embark on them.

I want to hear more about the skills and abilities and how you actually move your character around in comparison to FFXI! One of the highlights of FFXI for me is the fact that maneuvering characters around the game can sometimes be tedious and somewhat slow but I think these little details really add to Vana'diel's immersion.

Moving around was special from me, since I use a controller (even though I play on PC). Luckily, I had some experience with the WASD movement keys by having played Elder's Scroll : Oblivion. But it was quite different for me. Using abilities is used through the 1 to + keys, and with ALT 1 to +.

As for greater movements. I did not die very often while in PvE environment, but if I understand it well, when you die, you go to the latest camp you visited, which is usually not very far. You can also set some kind of "home point". Every characters have a book item you can use to warp back to this home point (Rally point in this case). And you get this item at level 1. I did not yet experimented with the Flight Masters and mounts.

One thing I disliked a little, is that every time you level, if you want to learn a new ability, you have to go see a trainer and buy it. Not quite different than spells in FFXI, but buying abilities feel weird (remember, I'm speaking from an FFXI point of view). Luckily... getting money in this game is REALLY easy. Just loot everything you kill and sell.

As for getting xp for dropping items... There is one big thing I like in the game, and it's the Tome of Knowledge. It contains many informations about anything you discover, and you unlock "accomplishments" by doing many actions. I was quite amused to see that, after having dropped some useless, unsalable items, I opened a new accomplishment in the Tome (dropped 10 items). And, like everything, it got me some xp. Unlocking things in the Tome of Knowledge will keep many players occupied (me being one of them). It's a fun part of this game.

One detail I forgot last time. RvR zone are clearly defined. There are scenarios ones, and opened ones. Here, your level is not adjusted, so you are fair game for everyone. However, I have read that if you are too high level for your tier of play, something bad happen (like you turn into a chicken or something). I have not witnessed it, however. When you enter this zone, you have 10 seconds to go away before you are flagged for RvR, so if you don't feel like it, you just go away.

As for getting xp for dropping items... There is one big thing I like in the game, and it's the Tome of Knowledge. It contains many informations about anything you discover, and you unlock "accomplishments" by doing many actions. I was quite amused to see that, after having dropped some useless, unsalable items, I opened a new accomplishment in the Tome (dropped 10 items). And, like everything, it got me some xp. Unlocking things in the Tome of Knowledge will keep many players occupied (me being one of them). It's a fun part of this game.

I'm sure people will get all emo on me, but having played WoW for quite some time......

This game sounds exactly like WoW. Questing is the same. One character per race/job and able to make a bunch just like WoW. WoW-like PvP battles. Grouping is beneficial for big dungeons just like WoW. No extreme sense of storyline just like WoW.

So basically this game is WoW with a different face. Not saying that is bad because well a bunch of people like WoW. I'm just saying from reading your thread it sounds exactly like WoW......in every aspect.

I'm sure people will get all emo on me, but having played WoW for quite some time......

This game sounds exactly like WoW. Questing is the same. One character per race/job and able to make a bunch just like WoW. WoW-like PvP battles. Grouping is beneficial for big dungeons just like WoW. No extreme sense of storyline just like WoW.

So basically this game is WoW with a different face. Not saying that is bad because well a bunch of people like WoW. I'm just saying from reading your thread it sounds exactly like WoW......in every aspect.

The public quest system sound interesting, but I'd have to agree here. Just about every heavily-publicized MMO in the past couple years seems to be just another WoW-clone...LotRO, AoC, etc, etc.

I'm sure people will get all emo on me, but having played WoW for quite some time......

This game sounds exactly like WoW. Questing is the same. One character per race/job and able to make a bunch just like WoW. WoW-like PvP battles. Grouping is beneficial for big dungeons just like WoW. No extreme sense of storyline just like WoW.

So basically this game is WoW with a different face. Not saying that is bad because well a bunch of people like WoW. I'm just saying from reading your thread it sounds exactly like WoW......in every aspect.

Just like WoW is a different face of the typical MMO.

So yeah, it's only obvious even more new MMOs will try to mimic WoW sadly.

I'm sure people will get all emo on me, but having played WoW for quite some time......

This game sounds exactly like WoW. Questing is the same. One character per race/job and able to make a bunch just like WoW. WoW-like PvP battles. Grouping is beneficial for big dungeons just like WoW. No extreme sense of storyline just like WoW.

So basically this game is WoW with a different face. Not saying that is bad because well a bunch of people like WoW. I'm just saying from reading your thread it sounds exactly like WoW......in every aspect.

The public quest system sound interesting, but I'd have to agree here. Just about every heavily-publicized MMO in the past couple years seems to be just another WoW-clone...LotRO, AoC, etc, etc.

The warcraft series is actually a copy of the warhammer series. A number of people from Mythic moved out and started/joined (dont remember exactly) Blizzard.

Also, wouldnt it be ignorant to NOT mimic WoW? WoW is the most popular and highest grossing mmorpg of all time.

Yes, WAR and WoW are very similar. But, WAR is alot darker and even more PvP based that WoW. WAR is going to appeal to the people that want non stop pvp all the time. Its like a FPS game in rpg form, if I can make that comparison.

I figure I'm going to play both. I have a deep love for ffxi, it was my first mmorpg. But since it lacks a real working pvp system (sorry to say), I'll be playing WAR to quench my urge.

Comparing WAR to WoW, you are going to be severely disappointed if you expect a WoW 2.0.

There are going to be over 16 THOUSAND various achievements that can be unlocked. Numerous titles earned along the way through exploration and other means. Got the title 'Squig Bait' after a Squig Herders pet got the finishing blow on me in RvR, for example. Some ToK unlocks are simple as killing X number of creatures, while others require you to be killed by X creature, others still require you to go to a particular place on the map in order to get the unlock. An example of the last, there is a ledge in one of the zones. On top of that ledge sits a wolf staring out at something it can only see. As you approach and stand at it's side, you gain the title 'Howls with Wolves'.

Now the grouping thing... WAR is as group friendly as you want it to be. The Public Quests are a major driving force to get people to group, even if its through a non-active way. A group will always get more XP faster then a person solo, a group will always be more successful in RvR then the solo person, a group will be able to do far more content and see more story then the person who ranks up solo. The Warpblade Tunnels, Mount Gunbad, Bastion Stairs, Lost Vale, ect are all dungeons players can stay in for ~10 ranks each, but in order to get anywhere in them, you need to group with others. The group versus solo mentality also is there for *EVERYTHING* you do. You are a soldier, assisting your REALM, not out of individual glory. You kill a mob and you help the realm, you kill a player and you help the realm, you die and you hurt your realm, you lose a scenario and it hurts your realm. As a member of a group, you are far more likely to assist then harm your realm.

PQs tends to be 3-5 stages long, each getting more challenging as time passes. The first and possibly second can be soloed, but after that, the mobs get stronger and the time limit gets shorter. The PQs all have their own stories going on as well. One of the lower ranking PQs in the High Elf areas starts with the players thinning out the Cold One and Harpy threat before the Dark Elf beastmasters can tame them and add their strength to the Dark Elf warhost. Once that stage advances, they players are given 10 minutes to kill the named beastmasters who show up to do the job. While the players can kill the beastmaster, there is also another objective, to protect the High Elf mage NPCs who are trying to destroy the stone the Dark Elves are using to tame the beasts, should they die, the players fail and the PQ resets. Of course those new beastmasters that show up come with various beasts to aid them, and it will take 3+ players to take down one of the beastmasters. Should the players manage to finish that, then the head beastmaster arrive on his personal cold one. You have 8 minutes to kill this boss, but the former beastmasters hold a candle to this guy's strength as he is a Hero and not just a champion. Will take 1+ full groups in order to defeat him, all the while to many healers and you won't have the DPS, not enough tanks and he'll chew through the DPS and healers and cause a wipe. Should the players defeat that boss, each player is rewarded a contribution rating based on how much he did during the PQ, this rating is then applied to a /random 1000. Those that score the highest get rewards, which depends on numerous thing from classes involved to how many people involved in PQ.

If one side or the other captures enough war fronts, the battle moves to the defenders city. If the defenders can't push out the attackers, the defenders get thrown out to a refuge camp, while the attackers get to plunder the city, get access to their defenders dungeons, chance to kill the defender's King. Because of the recent changes, a realm can not just bum-rush one front and move forward to the city. Two fronts need to be captured, and should the other realm be able to hold those realms, then the battle continues. After everything is said and done, and the attackers leave the city, the city also falls back to rank1 and the defenders lose all bonuses they previously had with the previous ranking of the city.

Which leads into Living Cities. The cities grow with the success of the realm, and if the realm is doing well, then the city can grow more and more in content. Rank 1 cities will be ruins, nothing there. Hardly anybody living in the city, no quests, no special heroes to see. As soon as the city ranks up through the ratings, more and more people move into the city, more NPC interactions start occuring, more vendors open their doors, more dungeons and quests open up, ect. Now, not saying you are safe within your own city walls. I have been attacked by Skaven, plague rats, and a greater deamon, all while exploring Altdorf. Cities in WAR out do any MMO city ever created up to this point, NPCs don't stand in their shops 24/7, attackers can *kill* those vendors during attacks, Various NPCs in the friendly version of the city will become boss types when the city is under attack. Gotrek and Felix joining the battle with the defenders, the Archlictor battling in the Temple of Sigmar, andthe Bright Wizard college throwing their weight into the ring at the same time. The Inevitable City has the same things that happen there, but with obviously different NPCs since that is a city filled with Chaos deamons and mutants. Of course the biggest accomplishment the players can hope for, the top renown earners of the weeks get a statue placed in the war quarters in their honor.

The game isn't supposed to be a world, Mythic has stated that and been very clear. They wanted WAR to be a game, and in that, they have succeeded. There is something in it for everyone. If you want to just RvR, it is perfectly viable option of ranking up from 1-40+the 80 renown ranks. You can just PvE to your hearts content, running dungeons and fighting kings when/if they become available. A player can log-in, do quests while queued up for a scenario, or hop into an ORvR battle with other players, taking back keeps and battlefield objectives in the 'RvR lakes'. There are numerous Christmas quests, Items known as 'the plungers of the world' for those explorer types. Tome of Knowledge unlocks for the Completeness type of player.

None of this even touches on the numerous 100+vs100+ keeps battles we've had in BETA of the last year, where battering rams were knocking on keep doors, defenders had siege weapon of their own, trying to drive back the attackers, the battles swaying back and forth as the two realms hammer into each other in the Streets of Praag, the Marshes of Madness, or even Altdorf itself.

I'm sure people will get all emo on me, but having played WoW for quite some time......

This game sounds exactly like WoW. Questing is the same. One character per race/job and able to make a bunch just like WoW. WoW-like PvP battles. Grouping is beneficial for big dungeons just like WoW. No extreme sense of storyline just like WoW.

So basically this game is WoW with a different face. Not saying that is bad because well a bunch of people like WoW. I'm just saying from reading your thread it sounds exactly like WoW......in every aspect.

I don't think it's fair to judge an MMO in the first year of it's existence, much less the beta.

Everything feels fantastic when it's brand new. In a year or two, players might develop questionable mindsets or become more elitist. The game might even develop a reputation of attracting players or a certain age group or maturity level.

An MMO is defined by it's population, and right now the population is too young to give to give anyone an accurate impression of the game.

You can get a certain idea by the game mechanics, but eventually the player base will settle into the rut it's likely to inhabit for its entire lifespan, at which point we'll be able to make an unbiased comparison to other MMOs.

I personally massivly love WAR, but also FFXI, so SE won't be losing me as a customer.

I don't like people saying 'it's WoW' because it's not. They've done alot of things different, yes, alot of things are the same, but things like crafting, PQs, and RvR being the focus have really broken the mold. Also, it's hard to be too different from Warcraft when Warcraft has been ripping off Warhammer for decades now.

I can see how to someone who has only experience in FFXI, trying out an MMO like WAR (or are people calling it WHO?), WoW, LotRO, Vanguard or any of the other, newer, quest-based MMOs could be refreshing. It seems liberating to be able to solo through things, and only party when you want to. ****, it just seems novel to get experience for completing quests.

But, for me, these games get old very fast. I played WoW for a long time, and nearing level 70 on my first character, I just felt like I could not complete one more quest. In the end, you will stop reading the quest text, and just read what you have to do. You will drudge your way over to the objective, kill it/pick it up/escort it, etc. Then head back for your experience. Wash, rinse, repeat on and on and on and on....

I actually came back to FFXI because I missed the party-based social environment. I also missed the challenge and yeah...I missed experience grinding. While I know many players of the newer games will disagree with me, I just feel that this is not the way MMORPGs need to go. I actually would have loved it if games like WoW, LotRO and WAR had been broken out into their own genre (Action-MMO, maybe?) and games like FFXI, DAoC, etc. were still being produced as "traditional MMOs". The new MMOs just have so many quests that they cannot all be unique. In fact, most of them only have about 6 or 7 different quest templates at most and all quests are based on one of those with just different text. To their credit, it would be impossible to economically make a game with over 2000 quests that are all completely different. Unfortunately though, it just turns into "quest grinding". I prefer the traditional MMO experience grind because of the group atmosphere.

EDIT: I wanted to add that I am not trying to dissuade anyone from playing WAR, or any other game for that matter. I am just stating my opinion, which is probably shared between many people who are playing FFXI these days, even with all of the competition.

Edited, Aug 21st 2008 1:10am by dacypher

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Crystan wrote:

Some players don't actually get better with levels, they just get more HP.

Thanks for the review. I tend to like more story orientated games so this might be a miss for me. Sounds like it's at least worth a look though.

Actually, Warhammer has about 20+ years of "story" to it, so I am not sure where you get the idea that the game doesn't have one? It is true that there are no cutscenes like there are in FFXI, but saying there is no story or that it isn't a story oriented game is absolutely false.

Every quest has story to it, there is a reason you are doing the things you do. IF you choose not to read those quests then you won't get the story line, but everything leading up to the sieges and killing the kings fits into the story cannon.

But, for me, these games get old very fast. I played WoW for a long time, and nearing level 70 on my first character, I just felt like I could not complete one more quest. In the end, you will stop reading the quest text, and just read what you have to do. You will drudge your way over to the objective, kill it/pick it up/escort it, etc. Then head back for your experience. Wash, rinse, repeat on and on and on and on....

There were some really nice quest-lines implemented in WOW. Granted, most of it was written down in quest descriptions, the items you collected, and the debriefing you received. Not the great cut-scenes you get in FFXI. But some of these were involving and quite well written. Fond memories of Scholomance (in the olden days, when that instance was really hard!)...

However, being WOW, all of these quests required at some point to get a group and descend into an instance or kill some elite mob or some such. And if you had not a dedicated guild or good friends who would do that only for your benefit, you probably never experienced these. Also when B.C. came around some stuff was obsolete. Nobody wanted to go down into the Blackrock Depths solely because some ******* had to free some princess down there. My horde char never completed some of the better quest-lines because of that reason.

The thing that I hope I will be able to enjoy about WAR is getting exp from pvp. I personally cannot stand any quests. I had paladin and priest at level 70 in WoW, almost exclusively from healing in instances, or grinding in between instances. Sure, it wasn't the fastest way to level, but I absolutely hate quests.

I love ffxi because If I don't want to quest, I don't have to. I can just join a party, and grind out my levels all I want. If theres an item I want, I usually won't do the quest for it, I'd rather farm for the gil then buy the item. That is why I love FFXI so much. Questing just ruins a game for me.

I also got to level 50 in LoTRO and that game was extremely quest based, so I leveled a lot slower because quests bore me.

So hopefully WAR will have ways to level where I never need to quest, or it'll be back to FFXI exclusively for me

So hopefully WAR will have ways to level where I never need to quest, or it'll be back to FFXI exclusively for me

You can level exclusively on RvR content. In fact, I would recommend leveling Tier 1 (Levels 1 through 11) that way simply because it's the fastest method. But if you do that, you absolutely *must* take up the gathering skill "Scavenging" which allows you to loot your humanoid kills a second time.

Of course for those that don't like PvP you can level off of quests, there are *tons* and there are some very interesting ones too, like one where you have to take up a siege weapon and shoot some harpies out of the air. Most quests are easy to complete and the map gives you the option to show indicators as to where you need to go for those quests.

Also don't forget the Public Quest system where you can participate in a large-scale quest that doesn't require you to go back and forth between starter NPC's. During these public quests you can automatically join a group using the "Open Party" feature which makes getting a group super easy. Also with public quests, once you gain enough influence; usually repeating one PQ 4 times gets you 100% influence, OR you can do one of the other PQs in the chapter (there are usually 2-4 PQ's per chapter).

So yea, getting EXP is easy, you just have to play the game and you can choose whichever you like best, questing, RvR, PQs, or even instances if you want.

I have played FFXI since the NA release and I shall be playing it until the servers go down or I do, whichever comes first. Having said that I will be starting the War introductory weekend starting tomorrow and look forward to what I know will be a great game. I used to paint the figures and sometimes when my brother would let me, I played the tabletop game with High Elf Dragon Riders and such. Not only does it have a very rich storyline but it has 28 years of tried and trusted lore. There are many races and classes that have yet to make it to the game, many more armies like the Bretonnians and Lizard Men that also have a place in what is Warhammer. Knowing a little about what to expect I can't wait to play..WAAAGH!!

The ONE thing I'd really love FFXI to pick up from other MMOs is to have mobs you're fighting per usual drop equipment and items that are actually useful to the player, besides crystals. Items like potions, armor, etc. could drop with a 1% chance from normal XP mobs and I'd still be happy.

Then again, the lack of this aspect means people have a better reason to craft (albeit, without much profit sometimes) and it's more of a time sink = more money for SE.

The BEST thing about FF is the storyline. Bar-none. WoW has a sh*tty storyline, but easy gameplay...easy and boring. Oh, and WAR seems a lot more like WoW than FFXI, based on your description.

Edit: Not to mention XP for quests and Missions...and not even all of them...just like 1/4 of them would be great. And maybe repeatable quests give a low number of XP, but enough to be worth repeating?

The ONE thing I'd really love FFXI to pick up from other MMOs is to have mobs you're fighting per usual drop equipment and items that are actually useful to the player, besides crystals. Items like potions, armor, etc. could drop with a 1% chance from normal XP mobs and I'd still be happy.

Well... Why exactly WOULD a crab be carrying armor or potions? Glancing over Campsitaurus for a minute, the only things I can see that would really logically be carrying armor would be goblins, orcs, undead, and evil weapons... And for them, there's good reasons why what they use is often unsuitable for the player races.

That said, even if they dropped armor and such, who would use it? There's a very delicate balance of armor quality progression, and including something that common (since there's going to be a LOT of them, if they drop from normal xp targets) means it has to be worthless or near-worthless to equip, or you'll have made something more difficult to acquire a joke - and if it's not worth equipping, you've just upset players by giving them yet another thing they have to drop from their inventory over the course of a party.

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Then again, the lack of this aspect means people have a better reason to craft (albeit, without much profit sometimes) and it's more of a time sink = more money for SE.

Huh? The lack of armor dropping from xp mobs gives more of an incentive to craft?

You can buy basic defensive armor for most levels, and the market is fairly saturated for normal-quality expected gear. The only reason to go into crafting is if you enjoy it - you'll have an easy enough time getting the equipment you want, or finding a crafter capable of making something personally for you if it's not on the auction.

As for having to work for equipment instead of picking it up as you go... That's not a timesink. That's part of the fun. Don't you feel a bit of a thrill when you're finally able to make or buy that piece of equipment you've been dying for?