let's think logically about this. Why PAY back a loan when you can 1) give out old merch that has no purpose anymore, 2) sign old merch and give it away, 3) skype call for 45 minutes and make money, 4) drive within 50 miles to play acoustic (really? Gas for that would be 20 bucks tops).

So, it makes sense to NOT get a loan when idiots around the internet throw money at kickstarter's so fast anymore. If I were in a band, the first thing I would do is grab old shirts, sign some shit and throw it online for a buck too BEFORE i even considered a loan with interest and etc.

let's think logically about this. Why PAY back a loan when you can 1) give out old merch that has no purpose anymore, 2) sign old merch and give it away, 3) skype call for 45 minutes and make money, 4) drive within 50 miles to play acoustic (really? Gas for that would be 20 bucks tops).

So, it makes sense to NOT get a loan when idiots around the internet throw money at kickstarter's so fast anymore. If I were in a band, the first thing I would do is grab old shirts, sign some shit and throw it online for a buck too BEFORE i even considered a loan with interest and etc.

Because that was the important part of my argument? I don't really give a shit if they were previously in, changed their name, or are a brand new band; they're still lazy.

Hey guys. I'm starting a kickstarter for my band...I was hoping you could help. The first kickstarter will be so we can buy instruments. I'll give away dumb shit but we're gonna be an awesome band. ;)

Actually no. Because if they were a brand new band, no one would have a good idea of what their music would sound like (even if they posted three shitty demos online). In this case, they've released two full lengths under "Audio Karate", therefore they have fans who would like to see them live/support them. Big difference.

If it's between me contributing to help a band go on the road for a while or me not seeing that band live, I know which one I'd pick. You don't like this band, and that's cool, but I don't see what's so "lazy" about this when the rewards they are offering are more than fair (e.g. 250 for a full band show - are you kidding me?). Bands DON'T need to earn their right to play music to people who would like to see them live. I'm sure these guys, now that they're older, have other commitments and can't afford to save up for a van just to lose all that money on tour, and that is perfectly fine. I'm glad they're doing this.

TL;DR There's a bunch of people who want to help this band, their rewards are more than reasonable, and they're a somewhat established band. don't see what's wrong with this.

edit: and I'm pretty sure most of the people donating would be friends or old school fans who would be in their mid to late 20's, so they're not really "exploiting" anyone here. Punk rock community is an awesome thing.

Actually no. Because if they were a brand new band, no one would have a good idea of what their music would sound like (even if they posted three shitty demos online). In this case, they've released two full lengths under "Audio Karate", therefore they have fans who would like to see them live/support them. Big difference.

If it's between me contributing to help them go on the road for a while or me not seeing them live, I know which one I'd pick. You clearly aren't a fan of this band, and that's cool, but I don't see what's so "lazy" about this when the rewards they are offering are more than fair (e.g. 250 for a full band show - are you kidding me?). Bands DON'T need to earn their right to play music to people who would like to see them live. I'm sure these guys, now that they're older, have other commitments and can't afford to save up for a van just to lose all that money on tour, and that is perfectly fine. I want to see them, and I'm glad they're doing this.

TL;DR There's a bunch of people who want to help this band, their rewards are more than reasonable, and they're a somewhat established band. don't see what's wrong with this.

edit: and I'm pretty sure most of the people donating would be friends or old school fans who would be in their mid to late 20's, so they're not really "exploiting" anyone here. Punk rock community is an awesome thing.

I listened to a little bit of Audio Karate back in the day, but was never that much impressed.

And I'm all for the punk rock community being supportive.
But asking for money for a van is lazy, plain and simple. Owning a van is a basic thing to wanting to be in a touring band - so sell merch, save show money, or have a simple regular job. It's that simple.

This coming from a mid to late 20 year old who started going to shows and supporting music since I was 12/13 years old.

Being older and having other commitments is fine, but then clearly you aren't prepared to be in a fulltime touring band and actually needing that van anyways.
250 bucks for a full band show? How about they actually put work into buying their own equipment (van included) and then I pay the $10 to get into the show when they are ready to play the part of being a band.

I'm about to turn 28. I've never played in an actual band, but I work for bands (tour management, merch, etc). I have a solid resume going and I leave in a month for a 6 weeks tour where I will be making less than what I'm making at my part time job right now per week. I pay rent, car insurance, bills, credit card debt, etc & I'm not asking for any handout. I'm ready to do any hard work it takes because touring with musicians is what I want to do in my life and what truly makes me happy, no matter how much older I get.

I'm not trying to bash the band. I'm sure they're awesome and they put on a great show, and could or do have a solid record. At least they're playing rock and roll, but fans buying a van is just silly and stupid.

I listened to a little bit of Audio Karate back in the day, but was never that much impressed.

And I'm all for the punk rock community being supportive.
But asking for money for a van is lazy, plain and simple. Owning a van is a basic thing to wanting to be in a touring band - so sell merch, save show money, or have a simple regular job. It's that simple.

This coming from a mid to late 20 year old who started going to shows and supporting music since I was 12/13 years old.

Being older and having other commitments is fine, but then clearly you aren't prepared to be in a fulltime touring band and actually needing that van anyways.
250 bucks for a full band show? How about they actually put work into buying their own equipment (van included) and then I pay the $10 to get into the show when they are ready to play the part of being a band.

I'm about to turn 28. I've never played in an actual band, but I work for bands (tour management, merch, etc). I have a solid resume going and I leave in a month for a 6 weeks tour where I will be making less than what I'm making at my part time job right now per week. I pay rent, car insurance, bills, credit card debt, etc & I'm not asking for any handout. I'm ready to do any hard work it takes because touring with musicians is what I want to do in my life and what truly makes me happy, no matter how much older I get.

I'm not trying to bash the band. I'm sure they're awesome and they put on a great show, and could or do have a solid record. At least they're playing rock and roll, but fans buying a van is just silly and stupid.

How can they play shows to save up for a van? You can only play your hometown so many times, and shows are usually where bands sell merch.

They're not asking for a handout here . They're essentially selling merch/CD's/personalized songs and organizing shows. Usually when someone puts a show on for you, that person is risking losing money anyway so these kickstarter rewards aren't that much different except that they're for a specified cause. The point is they're not asking for money to be placed in the palms of their hands, they're offering fair rewards that would normally go for the amounts specified. They are earning their van, just in a nontraditional way.

How can they play shows to save up for a van? You can only play your hometown so many times, and shows are usually where bands sell merch.

They're not asking for a handout here . They're essentially selling merch/CD's/personalized songs and organizing shows. Usually when someone puts a show on for you, they're risking losing money anyway so these kickstarter rewards aren't that much different except that they're for a specified cause. The point is they're not asking for money to be placed in the palms of their hands, they're offering fair rewards that would normally go for the amounts specified. They are earning their van, just in a nontraditional way.

You say "nontraditional", I say lazy. Say I'm old fashioned but you gotta work hard for the things you want instead of making a "funny" video and giving away old shit that shits around and collects dust anyways.

If you say, they're older and have other commitments in life - perhaps a job that they can save a lil money here and there to buy a van (if they actually want to pursue traveling & playing music/shows for people) should be in that commitment.

In this case, maybe their rewards are fair - as far as old merchandise for a band that doesn't technically exist anymore goes.

I know this will come off really arrogant and asshole-like, but if the old merchandise they were giving away as rewards was worth even half as much as what they're "asking for", for it; they'd probably still be playing shows under that band name and have a van and not needing to ask people to give them money to buy a van. Just a thought.

You say "nontraditional", I say lazy. Say I'm old fashioned but you gotta work hard for the things you want instead of making a "funny" video and giving away old shit that shits around and collects dust anyways.

If you say, they're older and have other commitments in life - perhaps a job that they can save a lil money here and there to buy a van (if they actually want to pursue traveling & playing music/shows for people) should be in that commitment.

In this case, maybe their rewards are fair - as far as old merchandise for a band that doesn't technically exist anymore goes.

I know this will come off really arrogant and asshole-like, but if the old merchandise they were giving away as rewards was worth even half as much as what they're "asking for", for it; they'd probably still be playing shows under that band name and have a van and not needing to ask people to give them money to buy a van. Just a thought.

I feel like I should clear up the name thing (again). They had a name change. They're still the same band. iIt's like the whole American Nightmare/Give Up The Ghost thing.

They're asking 15 dollars for a shirt. A shitty local band that formed last year and draws 10 people per show would charge that much. And the reason why they're not as big as they were in 2004 is because they broke up for four years and changed their name after coming back (bad business move). The industry sucks and that happens. Doesn't mean these guys don't deserve to play shows just because they're unfortunate enough to not have a van. Sure, they could work their asses for at least a year or two and struggle to keep their band somewhat active while being unable to tour out of state during that time.....or they could ask their fans/friends for a hand while giving them their money's worth in whatever old shit they can dig up. Win-win.

I don't claim to know the financial situation of the guys in this band, but I think we've all gotten so used to the idea that bands need to be poor and go through tough shit and work their asses off just to lose money playing shows in order to have some semblance of integrity. That's fucked up. It's not lazy for a band to ask for help and to end up receiving that help.

I really don't see how this is lazy at all. They're selling signed CDs and shirts for 10 bucks. Most bands do this but charge more. At least they're up front with what they plan on doing with your money. That $250 full band performance is a deal too.