I don't mind Coughlin, but I think Fewell has to go. For how much talent is on our defense, I think we are under performing.

Kruunch

12-16-2011, 02:24 PM

I don't mind Coughlin, but I think Fewell has to go. For how much talent is on our defense, I think we are under performing.

TC yes (I can't see the Maras firing a playoff team HC).

Fewell ... that's debatable. While they don't mind getting rid of second year guys (ala Tim Lewis), he would still fall under the playoff team protection.

I guess it would depend on TC's say.

burier

12-16-2011, 02:25 PM

I don't mind Coughlin, but I think Fewell has to go. For how much talent is on our defense, I think we are under performing.

Now the Defense could still come around. Fewell simplifies a few things. We could start playing better. If you couple that with a nice playoff run and its gonna be hard to get him fired. The Giants like to excuse poor coaching if there are injuries and we have a few (Not as many as advertised but a few)

so this run toward the playoffs will be key.

If we fail to make noise in the playoffs I can't imagine he'll be back with where the D in ranked. Plus I believe hes in the last year of his contract. I cant imagine wed offer another contract to a coach who isn't performing.

egyptian420

12-16-2011, 02:26 PM

I don't mind Coughlin, but I think Fewell has to go. <font size="4">For how much talent is on our defense</font>, I think we are under performing.

Don't you mean how much talent we have on I.R/bench?

GMENAGAIN

12-16-2011, 02:28 PM

IMO, yes.

yoeddy

12-16-2011, 02:29 PM

Not if Fewell gets a head coaching job offer from another team...

GMENAGAIN

12-16-2011, 02:30 PM

Not if Fewell gets a head coaching job offer from another team...</P>

ha ha . . . . good one!</P>

giantsforce

12-16-2011, 02:38 PM

Not if Fewell gets a head coaching job offer from another team...We can only hope there is a fool of a GM or owner that will give this idiot an HC position. That is the only way to break up the 3 stooges we have now.

Drez

12-16-2011, 02:49 PM

TC will definitely be here if we make the playoffs. However, unless there's a drastic turn around in the way the defenseplays, I can see us not resigning Fewell (his contract is up after this season), and aiming for someone else.</P>

Who knows, though? Maybe Mara/TC give Fewell a pass because of all the defensive injuries.</P>

AllTuckedUp

12-16-2011, 02:50 PM

TC will definitely be here if we make the playoffs. However, unless there's a drastic turn around in the way the defense*plays, I can see us not resigning Fewell (his contract is up after this season), and aiming for someone else.</P>

Who knows, though? Maybe Mara/TC give Fewell a pass because of all the defensive injuries.</P>

Contract up well that is even better

G-Man67

12-16-2011, 02:54 PM

I don't mind Coughlin, but I think Fewell has to go. For how much talent is on our defense, I think we are under performing.

TC yes (I can't see the Maras firing a playoff team HC).

Fewell ... that's debatable. While they don't mind getting rid of second year guys (ala Tim Lewis), he would still fall under the playoff team protection.

I guess it would depend on TC's say.

yeah this, they would defer to TC and i think playoffs, injuries and past performance is enough for Fewell to stay ... i think we will learn a lot about where the is D this weekend ... Washington is a stoppable offense ... Pack, Saints and Boys are far better, so lets see if we can do something against a weaker O in an important game

TrueBlue@NYC

12-16-2011, 02:55 PM

TC definintly stays if the team makes the playoffs in a strong fashion AND wins a playoff game. If we barely sneak into the playoffs and get blown out in the wildcard round, there may (although doubtful) a chance TC is still let go.

PF's fate will likely get tied to how well the defense plays during this last stretch and if it causes the season's demise.

Another showing like those against NO and GB in the playoffs likely spells his end.

YATittle1962

12-16-2011, 03:00 PM

no idea about Fewell.....

but if you think ownership will relieve Coughlin of his duties with a QB in his prime that is attached to his hip you have to be out of your mind

you dont disrupt an offense playing this well and a franchise QB who could run this offense in his sleep

a completely new regime rolling into town could set this team back multiple seasons

egyptian420

12-16-2011, 03:05 PM

no idea about Fewell.....

but if you think ownership will relieve Coughlin of his duties with a QB in his prime that is attached to his hip you have to be out of your mind

you dont disrupt an offense playing this well and a franchise QB who could run this offense in his sleep

a completely new regime rolling into town could set this team back multiple seasons
this

SweetZombieJesus

12-16-2011, 03:10 PM

I think the entire staff is gone with anything short of a first round playoff win.

There are a lot of facts that should have TC squirming in his seat. I'll review them quickly so the TC apologists have something to chew on:

<ul> 29-41 Nov/Dec record no better than 4-4 in the 2nd half of 7 out of 8 seasons (went 5-3 in 2005).
Collapses in 7 of 8 seasons (if you'd like I can cut and paste the year-by-year collapses) 3 first round playoff exits Some of the franchise's worst performances in big games (2005 Panthers, 2008 Eagles, 2009 last game ever at Giants Stadium, 2010 Eagles, et al).
No home playoff wins No playoff wins outside of 2007[/list]

Coughlin is also very loyal to his subordinates -- an honorable trait -- but our defense and special teams are trash, and Gilbride is 25% genious and 75% oaf. Coughlin will not make the call.
</p>

Only if the front office insists, as they did at the end of 2006, on firing the underlings will they go anywhere.</p>

Should they do this, it will be the 5th defensive coordinator in 8 years.
</p>

And we still wouldn't have an answer for all the 2nd half collapses or the disastrous big games.</p>

I often compare TC's situation to Joe Torre's -- does a lot of good things but something is wrong that nobody can identify, it's time to shake hands and part ways.
</p>

SweetZombieJesus

12-16-2011, 03:16 PM

no idea about Fewell.....

but if you think ownership will relieve Coughlin of his duties with a QB in his prime that is attached to his hip you have to be out of your mind

you dont disrupt an offense playing this well and a franchise QB who could run this offense in his sleep

a completely new regime rolling into town could set this team back multiple seasons

Or conversely it could unleash them and propel the team to new heights -- see Dungy to Colts.

Sometimes the guy you have just can't do any better. Pat Riley said it. Eventually you just can't gain altitude, you're holding the players back.

You don't want to waste Eli's prime years? But it's OK to waste the prime years of Osi, Tuck, JPP, Webster, and Boley as we have since 2009?

And while Eli is lights out leading the offense there is horrendous dysfunction in the other two phases of the game. Even the offense is a recent salvage, with the O line and running problems the team has had this year.

Sundown

12-16-2011, 03:16 PM

TC and by extension KG won't be going anywhere. The Offense has been outstanding despite KGs boneheaded play calling but Fewell will be gone regardless if we make the playoffs or not. Personally I hope we get a 3-4 D Coord

YATittle1962

12-16-2011, 03:28 PM

no idea about Fewell.....

but if you think ownership will relieve Coughlin of his duties with a QB in his prime that is attached to his hip you have to be out of your mind

you dont disrupt an offense playing this well and a franchise QB who could run this offense in his sleep

a completely new regime rolling into town could set this team back multiple seasons

Or conversely it could unleash them and propel the team to new heights -- see Dungy to Colts.

Sometimes the guy you have just can't do any better.* Pat Riley said it.* Eventually you just can't gain altitude, you're holding the players back.

And while Eli is lights out leading the offense there is horrendous dysfunction in the other two phases of the game.* Even the offense is a recent salvage, with the O line and running problems the team has had this year.

the Colts went 13-3 in Peyton and Moras second year ...and went to the playoffs that season and the season after....

Dungy hardly propelled them ...kinda just picked up where they left off

plus they picked up Freeney in Dungys first season

not really comparable to the Coughlin Manning relationship

BlueBlitzer

12-16-2011, 03:36 PM

no idea about Fewell.....

but if you think ownership will relieve Coughlin of his duties with a QB in his prime that is attached to his hip you have to be out of your mind

you dont disrupt an offense playing this well and a franchise QB who could run this offense in his sleep

a completely new regime rolling into town could set this team back multiple seasons

Or conversely it could unleash them and propel the team to new heights -- see Dungy to Colts.

Sometimes the guy you have just can't do any better.* Pat Riley said it.* Eventually you just can't gain altitude, you're holding the players back.

And while Eli is lights out leading the offense there is horrendous dysfunction in the other two phases of the game.* Even the offense is a recent salvage, with the O line and running problems the team has had this year.

the Colts went 13-3 in Peyton and Moras second year ...and went to the playoffs that season and the season after....

Dungy hardly propelled them ...kinda just picked up where they left off

plus they picked up Freeney in Dungys first season

not really comparable to the Coughlin Manning relationship

Totally agree. Dungy was given a playoff team laden with talent on a silver platter. TC and KG had to coach a rookie up, and rebuild the team.

GMENAGAIN

12-16-2011, 03:38 PM

no idea about Fewell..... but if you think ownership will relieve Coughlin of his duties with a QB in his prime that is attached to his hip you have to be out of your mind you dont disrupt an offense playing this well and a franchise QB who could run this offense in his sleep a completely new regime rolling into town could set this team back multiple seasons

Or conversely it could unleash them and propel the team to new heights -- see Dungy to Colts.

Sometimes the guy you have just can't do any better. Pat Riley said it. Eventually you just can't gain altitude, you're holding the players back.

And while Eli is lights out leading the offense there is horrendous dysfunction in the other two phases of the game. Even the offense is a recent salvage, with the O line and running problems the team has had this year.
the Colts went 13-3 in Peyton and Moras second year ...and went to the playoffs that season and the season after.... Dungy hardly propelled them ...kinda just picked up where they left off plus they picked up Freeney in Dungys first season not really comparable to the Coughlin Manning relationship</P>

Trust me YA, get out of this argument while you can. You'd be better off banging your head against a wall.</P>

This guy thinks that the Yankees won the WS in 2009 solely because of the change in managers from Torre to Girardi, and refuses to consider the possibility that the $200M that the Yankees spent in FA after Torre left had anything to do with the 2009 Championship.</P>

He is on record as saying: (1) TC should be gone no matter how this season ends up; and (2) if the team ends up 4-4 over its last 8 games (obviously meaning that they ended on a 4 game winning streak), he would consider that a "collapse".</P>

He argued with me for days because I was crazy enough to say that we should wait and see how this season turns out before we start calling for TC's head . . . . </P>

Good luck.</P>

</P>

YATittle1962

12-16-2011, 03:40 PM

no idea about Fewell..... but if you think ownership will relieve Coughlin of his duties with a QB in his prime that is attached to his hip you have to be out of your mind you dont disrupt an offense playing this well and a franchise QB who could run this offense in his sleep a completely new regime rolling into town could set this team back multiple seasons

Or conversely it could unleash them and propel the team to new heights -- see Dungy to Colts.

Sometimes the guy you have just can't do any better.* Pat Riley said it.* Eventually you just can't gain altitude, you're holding the players back.

And while Eli is lights out leading the offense there is horrendous dysfunction in the other two phases of the game.* Even the offense is a recent salvage, with the O line and running problems the team has had this year.
the Colts went 13-3 in Peyton and Moras second year ...and went to the playoffs that season and the season after.... Dungy hardly propelled them ...kinda just picked up where they left off plus they picked up Freeney in Dungys first season not really comparable to the Coughlin Manning relationship</P>

Trust me YA, get out of this argument while you can.* You'd be better off banging your head against a wall.</P>

This guy thinks that the Yankees won the WS in 2009 solely because of the change in managers from Torre to Girardi, and refuses to consider the possibility that the $200M that the Yankees spent in FA after Torre left had anything to do with the 2009 Championship.</P>

He is on record as saying:* (1) TC should be gone no matter how this season ends up; and (2) if the team ends up 4-4 over its last 8 games (obviously meaning that they ended on a 4 game winning streak), he would consider that a "collapse".</P>

He argued with me for days because I was crazy enough to say that we should wait and see how this season turns out before we start calling for TC's head . . . . </P>

Good luck.</P>

*</P>

I take your advice and gracefully bow out

gumby742

12-16-2011, 03:48 PM

no idea about Fewell..... but if you think ownership will relieve Coughlin of his duties with a QB in his prime that is attached to his hip you have to be out of your mind you dont disrupt an offense playing this well and a franchise QB who could run this offense in his sleep a completely new regime rolling into town could set this team back multiple seasons

Or conversely it could unleash them and propel the team to new heights -- see Dungy to Colts.

Sometimes the guy you have just can't do any better. Pat Riley said it. Eventually you just can't gain altitude, you're holding the players back.

And while Eli is lights out leading the offense there is horrendous dysfunction in the other two phases of the game. Even the offense is a recent salvage, with the O line and running problems the team has had this year.
the Colts went 13-3 in Peyton and Moras second year ...and went to the playoffs that season and the season after.... Dungy hardly propelled them ...kinda just picked up where they left off plus they picked up Freeney in Dungys first season not really comparable to the Coughlin Manning relationship</P>

harbaugh to the niners. sparano to the dolphins - when he actually had a team to piece together. Bill Parcells to the Cowboys .. to the Patriots ...</P>

YATittle1962

12-16-2011, 03:50 PM

no idea about Fewell..... but if you think ownership will relieve Coughlin of his duties with a QB in his prime that is attached to his hip you have to be out of your mind you dont disrupt an offense playing this well and a franchise QB who could run this offense in his sleep a completely new regime rolling into town could set this team back multiple seasons

Or conversely it could unleash them and propel the team to new heights -- see Dungy to Colts.

Sometimes the guy you have just can't do any better.* Pat Riley said it.* Eventually you just can't gain altitude, you're holding the players back.

And while Eli is lights out leading the offense there is horrendous dysfunction in the other two phases of the game.* Even the offense is a recent salvage, with the O line and running problems the team has had this year.
the Colts went 13-3 in Peyton and Moras second year ...and went to the playoffs that season and the season after.... Dungy hardly propelled them ...kinda just picked up where they left off plus they picked up Freeney in Dungys first season not really comparable to the Coughlin Manning relationship</P>

harbaugh to the niners.* sparano to the dolphins - when he actually had a team to piece together.* Bill Parcells to the Cowboys .. to the Patriots ...</P>

ok which one of those had a franchise QB neck deep in a offensive philosophy that he became a champion in and could run in his sleep?

oh yeah.....none

Gianthunter

12-16-2011, 03:58 PM

I think the entire staff is gone with anything short of a first round playoff win.

There are a lot of facts that should have TC squirming in his seat. I'll review them quickly so the TC apologists have something to chew on:

<UL>
<LI>29-41 Nov/Dec record
<LI>no better than 4-4 in the 2nd half of 7 out of 8 seasons (went 5-3 in 2005).

<LI>Collapses in 7 of 8 seasons (if you'd like I can cut and paste the year-by-year collapses)
<LI>3 first round playoff exits
<LI>Some of the franchise's worst performances in big games (2005 Panthers, 2008 Eagles, 2009 last game ever at Giants Stadium, 2010 Eagles, et al).

Coughlin is also very loyal to his subordinates -- an honorable trait -- but our defense and special teams are trash, and Gilbride is 25% genious and 75% oaf. Coughlin will not make the call.
</P>

Only if the front office insists, as they did at the end of 2006, on firing the underlings will they go anywhere.</P>

Should they do this, it will be the 5th defensive coordinator in 8 years.
</P>

And we still wouldn't have an answer for all the 2nd half collapses or the disastrous big games.</P>

I often compare TC's situation to Joe Torre's -- does a lot of good things but something is wrong that nobody can identify, it's time to shake hands and part ways.
</P><FONT size=6>OFTEN? OFTEN?</FONT>

giantsfan420

12-16-2011, 04:12 PM

you know what i've pondered lately? i think most of us like the offense KG has implemented, but are disgusted by his play calling.

If TC retires, would it be a bad thing if KG went to HC and he hired an OC to run his scheme and play call?

I dont really like the idea of KG being HC or even really being OC, but Eli knows this offense, and is downright dominant. You have to at least credit KG's scheme if your like me and hate his play calling.

I wouldnt want Eli to have to necessarily start all over with a new offensive scheme really bc he's evolved so much in this one, so one option would be to keep KG's scheme but have some one else do the play call. A way to do that is for KG to become the HC (a scary notion i know)

the only other way I could see this offense keeping the current scheme but having some one else call the plays would be to keep KG as OC but have Eli run a version of Indy's offense and Eli runs a no huddle but not hurry up offense where he calls plays based on the defense.

Kind of off topic but just been thinking about that lately.

To the OP, I dont think Coughlin goes anywhere this offseason unless he retires after we win it all and even then I could see him still wanting to coach more.

Fewell, he has 3 games and the playoffs hopefully to still decide his fate. He turns the play of the D around, I have no prob with him returning bc the D was very good last year.

But if the D continues on the same course, then yes I believe he will be replaced.

tonyt830

12-16-2011, 04:18 PM

Well I think the playoffs may save Coughlin. But even if the Giants miss out on the playoffs, I think he will get a pass because of key injuries and a shortened training camp due to the lockout.</P>

</P>

I'm not saying I agree---A couple weeks back I thought TC and the rest of the staff were dead men walking. But as long as the Giants don't lay down the next 3 games, I think TC is safe.</P>

</P>

Maybe the Mara's have TC make some decisions regarding coaches. I would not mind if Fewell was replaced. Hopefully the Rooney rule pans out in our favor and some other GM/Head coach love Fewell this coming offseason.</P>

NYG 5

12-16-2011, 04:22 PM

Query: is it Fewell's fault the Giants went all in on the front 4 philosophy, and had it blow up in their face once Tuck, Osi, and those useless free agents started sucking? Coupled with the entire cornerback unit being wiped out by freak injuries in preseason? Ross and others have shown they can't handle 0 coverage for longer than 1 second, and if all those record setting takeaways came from base rushes and off coverage, what is he going to do?

Kruunch

12-16-2011, 04:39 PM

no idea about Fewell.....

but if you think ownership will relieve Coughlin of his duties with a QB in his prime that is attached to his hip you have to be out of your mind

you dont disrupt an offense playing this well and a franchise QB who could run this offense in his sleep

a completely new regime rolling into town could set this team back multiple seasons

Or conversely it could unleash them and propel the team to new heights -- see Dungy to Colts.

Sometimes the guy you have just can't do any better.* Pat Riley said it.* Eventually you just can't gain altitude, you're holding the players back.

You don't want to waste Eli's prime years?* But it's OK to waste the prime years of Osi, Tuck, JPP, Webster, and Boley as we have since 2009?

And while Eli is lights out leading the offense there is horrendous dysfunction in the other two phases of the game.* Even the offense is a recent salvage, with the O line and running problems the team has had this year.

I was of the opinion (especially after the nth second half of the season collapse) that TC and the entire coaching staff should be jettisoned and I still am *IF* they don't make the playoffs for the 3rd straight year.

Conversely, I would never fire a coach who has just gotten my team to the playoffs (no matter how he did it).

How well have the Lions done since firing Wayne Fontes?

Or the Chargers since firing Shottenheimer?

While I understand the sentiment, if your team can get to the playoffs, anything can happen.

So if TC gets us back to the promised land (even if its one and done) I can't see firing him. Yes you could potentially do better ... but historically the odds are against you for quite a few years.

Fewell on the other hand has a terrible track record against teams with winning records (something like 32 points given up on average) over the past two years. I think his team's best defensive performance was this year against the Pats and I'm more chalking that up to the BBs having an off day more then Fewell's amazing coaching.

At best, Fewell has shown to be mediocre. Contract is done after this year and there are better candidates available ... nuff said.

JesseJames

12-16-2011, 05:02 PM

I think if the owners tell TC he can stay but there has to be changes in his coaching staff such as Fewell and the ST coach he will have no trouble dumping a few of his coaches in order to keep his job, he's done it before...I also can't find room in my thinking to give Fewell a pass for this defense for any reason and it goes all the way back to last seasons failures and total collapse. What have we seen from Fewell for any of us to want to give him another season of this humiliating type of defense..