The awful situation in Burma

Are things building to a climax in Burma (renamed Myanmar by the military)?

For days swelling crowds of Buddhist monks and nuns along with secular protesters have marched through the streets of Rangoon (they call it Yangon) and elsewhere chanting for change.

A secretive cabal of generals run this sad Southeast Asian nation as a police state. In the past they have put down such demonstrations with swift brutality followed by long periods of grinding repression.

The regime (treated as a pariah officially around much of the world) has issued a strong warning against the protesters.

Pictures of the protesters are being picked up in the international media while the United States and other Western nations are sympathising with the demonstrators.

Burma's neighbours who have tried but failed to use friendly persuasion to get junta are watching with the hope that change will come without turmoil. The last thing the region needs is another humanitarian crisis. There's also speculation that China - perhaps the only real ally left for the Burmese military - is using its influence to keep the security forces from lashing out.

The focus is once again on Aung San Suu Kyi, whose party won elections back in 1990 but was stopped by the army from forming a government.

The Nobel peace laureate has spent 12 of the last 18 years locked up (as have hundreds of her followers as political prisoners). For past few years she has been under house arrest in her lakeside Rangoon home. Over weekend she made a brief but startling appearance at its heavily guarded gates to watch demonstrators who are now openly calling for her release.

Burma is one of these awful international situations that seem to drag of painfully for years. The solution seems simple - the military must give way to democracy. The Burmese people want it and the international community wants it. So why are they still there?

Posted
by Geoff SpencerSeptember 25, 2007 12:00 AM

LATEST COMMENTS

Only when enough people want it to happen will things change.

The majority are driven by corrupt self interest rather than an egalitarian view of their world.
Sad but so very true.

Posted by: jon on September 25, 2007 8:37 AM

I defies logic that a group of men feel they have the right to control a nation and dictate its future without any conscious thought for the people living under that rule.

These dictators show no regard for the rule of a civilised and educated society where everyone has a right to free speech and economic opportunities. They are egomaniacs with 'generally' little educated qualities that oppress their people in the only way they know how, to satisfy their power urges...

Look at Burma, Zimbabwee, many other African nations, Iran, Afghanistan, Russia (to a lesser degree), Central and South American nations, and many middle eastern countries. These are all countries that are run by brutal egomanics or a family of them who are only concerned with their own power.

History will dictate how the world will look back on them. Most, if not all with reviled testiments to their ruin and destruction of their own people, cultures and overall countries economic prosperity.

Just remember, the oil WILL run out sometime and the revenue that is driving their egos will no longer be there... With the crazy amounts spent on weapons and power struggles, there will be limited money to create any kind of lasting country. Maybe then we'll see an amalgamation of nations like we are seeing in the current organisations mergers and acquisitions...

We always talk about using 'dialogue' and other persuasive means. Is it not time to take them to the cleaners... Tell them that further proof of systematic abuse of its citizens is 'not on' and make the hard decisions. Get rid of the UN since this has shown to be the biggerst waste of a countries resources ever devised. You just need to look at Sudan and Rwanda to show that the US repeatively declined to call Rwanda an genocide purely for political points thereby preventing 800,000 from dying... Where was the royal commission into that decision?

Wake up world. Stop using bold excuses to justify allowing these egomanics loose on their countries...

Posted by: Macca on September 25, 2007 8:44 AM

Its just unfortunate that Burma does not have any oil. Otherwise, the US and Australia would have invaded the country a long time ago under the guise of "regime change".

Posted by: RPB on September 25, 2007 8:57 AM

Things have been 'building to a climax' in Burma for DECADES. Unfortunately for the people of Burma - as for Zimbabwe - they are not in possession of enough oil to be strategically significant enough to warrant outside intervention as per Iraq. Although given the quagmire of violence, incompetence, destruction and grief that has ensued since the coalition of the willing, hypocritical and greedy arrived in Iraq, I suspect the Burmese are better off struggling for and developing their own form of democracy. Alexander Downer interviewed on AM this morning made all the correct and sympathetic noises with the caveat that with Burma, the US does not have as much 'leverage' as China and India in the UN. Well, leverage with the UN was not a consideration when Iraq was invaded, so why are we deferring to unwritten geopolitical protocol on Burma? Hypocrisy, that's why.

The Burmese people certainly deserve our unflagging support to attain and keep whatever form of democratic freedoms they seek, given the incredible level of repression, fear and violence they have lived under with the junta. Let us hope the tide is turning in favour of peace and openness in Burma. Whatever the international community can do to bring about peaceful and lasting reform in Burma, it should be done.

Posted by: Emma on September 25, 2007 9:43 AM

The campaign by the monks is just the start. The hope is that this phenomenon would rise to such a level the soliders on the ground would defy orders from the military junta hierachy and let the people topple the regime.

Given the multi-ethnic nature of Burma (Karen, Shan, Mon etc) behind the scenes work has to take place urgently with various ethinic leaderships to keep up the momentum and prevent the "Balkanisation" of Burma. Inside Burma Aung San Suu Kyi is the figure who is capable of bringing various factions together.

Internationally the roles of China and India are crucial. Their silence is golden but one wonders to what level China is willing to let these things continue. Democratisation of Burma would curtail the influence of China in Burman and boost the influence of India and other Western Allies.

Additionaly ASEAN leadership need to ensure that no support is offered to the despotic regime to prolong it's life. Outside of Asia, Western Nations should cut off the Oxygen going to the Junta by restricting diplomatics travel, funds transfers and sanctions on arms purchases or companies selling them.

Having contated people within Burma over the weekend, I can say that the hopes are high. But people are afraid to talk on the phones etc as they fear their lines are being tapped etc.

There having been lot's of false starts before. This time we the International Community should do our part to add strength to this process and kick out those despots. Hopefully one day these despots would be brought to Hague for trial.

(for obvious reasons I am not using my real name)

Posted by: Sam Henrick on September 25, 2007 9:54 AM

George Bush and Johnny are far from 'hairy-chested' on dictatorship in Burma, as others have noted. What will they do if the guns are turned on the monks and others and the killing starts? I have horrible feeling a great tragedy may unfold. I hope that I am wrong. It is quite sickening how selective the leaders of the so-called 'free world' are in their application (and in the nature of the application) of assistance to oppressed citizens.

Posted by: nic w on September 25, 2007 9:57 AM

RPB,

Burma does have oil and gas deposits. That is why China and India are courting the Military Junta.

The Free Burma Student movement continue to campaign aganist Oil companies from Piliphines (They are US companies anyway!). Eg. UNOCAL, Texaco etc who have invested heavily in exploration and harvesting such resources.

Posted by: Sam Henrick on September 25, 2007 9:59 AM

I am of Burmese heritage - second generation and have visted Myanmar 3 times for extended periods. I have first hand witnessed the atrocities in Myanmar and this oppressive rule. I have even had a machine gun pointed at me for walking on the footpath in the Botannical gardens in front of a military person!

This is a great chance for the Burmese people. I pray that democracy is around the corner and the world will support Burma in this quest.

My heart is aching for my people and I have faith that the Buddhist monks will lead this country and overthrow this tyrannical government.

L.D'vaz

Posted by: Leona on September 25, 2007 10:20 AM

Posted by: jon on September 25, 2007 8:37 AM

Actually no,

Alot of people wanted it, but they all got shot and killed or put into the prison.

Burma or Myanmar is a very religious country and buddist pratice peace.

Makes it hard for population to resort to voilence to solve problem.

I always ask why this is the case, when I was a kid living in yangoo, and my mom always said thats because the soldier got the gun and peoples don't, so we left the country.

Posted by: budda on September 25, 2007 10:20 AM

As said there is no oil otherwise the three cabillerros woulld have been in like Flyn. There is no gas or Australia would have done something. We have a lot to say about our Pacific neigbor with their military bosses but not a word about Burma.
If my memory serves me right the American downfall in Vietnam started with demo,s by the monks, (this wouldn't be allowed in NSW.)
Maybe we are seeing the start of something in Burma. We can only hope. With three military dictaterships in our region and NSW its about time PEOPLE WOKE UP
to the fact its not only penalty rates which are being aroded.

Posted by: Barney on September 25, 2007 10:41 AM

Hey Leona,

"I have even had a machine gun pointed at me for walking on the footpath in the Botannical gardens in front of a military person! "

Are you talking about the time you were in Sydney during the APEC?

SO what's the problem again?

Posted by: Marcus on September 25, 2007 10:43 AM

Best wishes for a peaceful transfer to a democracy in Burma, but low expectations because of the well-entrenched military junta's record of violent suppression of dissent.

Posted by: RPB on September 25, 2007 8:57 AM

Burma has no great oil reserves but is rich in timber and gemstones. Corrupt elements in the Junta trade these on the black market to corrupt elements in neighbouring countries, such as Thailand. It's one of the reasons why the nearest neighbours of Burma have sat on their hands for so long. They prefer corrupt trade to the better situation that would occur if Burma was a democracy with a functioning economy.

Posted by: righteous on September 25, 2007 10:48 AM

If the world community will again fail the oppressed - like in Zimbabwe most recently - then the current demonstrations in Burma will result in yet another brutal military crackdown by SLORC, the Nobel price laureate Aung San Suu Kyi will continue to be locked up in her Rangoon home and the media will eventually walk away and one more time forget about the people of Burma. No oil for the US, Australia, the UK and other members of the coalition means remaining a marginalised country for Burma, sad but true.

Posted by: Matthias Reimann on September 25, 2007 10:55 AM

The naivity astounds me.

Hey Marcus,
Do you think Sydney is the only city in the world with a Botannical gardens?

And Jon, when you say "the majority are driven by corrupt self interest rather than an egalitarian view of their world.
Sad but so very true" who are you talking about?

Surely not the majority of ordinary Burmese who continue to suffer under the Chinese backed junta!

Free Burma!

Posted by: reThink on September 25, 2007 11:35 AM

"Its just unfortunate that Burma does not have any oil. Otherwise, the US and Australia would have invaded the country a long time ago under the guise of regime change."

Ah yes its all about oil, something that must be morally discounted when deciding about any sort action...yeah right. I am sure if Burma had oil we would be morally obliged to ignore the dictatorship ..just like the French , Germans etc wanted to ignore Saddam regime ( and drop the sanctions and continue the lucrative business dealings ) BECAUSE having oil makes it about oil doesnt it. Such easy dull cliched thinking ..sort like Rudd saying we must fight OBL in Afghanistan only , even though OLB has stated Iraq is the battlefeild.

It is unfortunate that Burma has no oil because regime change is want that country needs , and without the ingrained religious sectarianism and a defacto leader in waiting would be a better bet for success. But the sad fact is that Burma is unimportant as Afghanistan while Iraq with its potential resources and its position at the cross roads of the Middle East and Asia , the attack of 911 and the rise of fascist Iran , makes it strategically important. Of course its precisely because of its importance that some want it lost. To these people the misery of Iraqi people was never a problem under Saddam , and their desertion would be a small price to teach the US a lesson.

"If my memory serves me right the American downfall in Vietnam started with demo,s by the monks, (this wouldn't be allowed in NSW.)"

It didnt... the downfall of South Vietnam started when the public opinion of America , was manipulated by NVietnamese puppet left and decided that the Vietnamese people of the South could go to hell... This history of betrayal by useful dolts is repeating now with regard to Iraq. I guess the 'dusky' Iraqis like the 'brown' Vietnamese arent worth bothering about by those humanitarians ..not when you get to poke Uncle Sam in the eye.

Posted by: david xavier on September 25, 2007 11:37 AM

As said previously-nothing will happen. They have nothing we want ie:oil. Same same Zimbawe and any other number of dictatorships or places with dreadful human rights records.Saudia Arabia, Egypt-there's a long list on which our leaders take no action. They'd rather blather on about the AG of the Solomons on a trumped up charge and bully the South Pacific region.

Posted by: Michael on September 25, 2007 11:39 AM

In fact Burma does have gas, huge off shore reserves, as well as uranium that Russia has helped them process and market to N Korea and china, and some have claimed to Iran. They also have a vast coastline giving them access to sealanes through the Bay of Bengal, which the Chinese covet.. and jade, drugs and lots of global satellite systems for keeping an eye on the western forces.
At the beginning of this year most of the factions, I gather including the Wa, got together to practice holding their noses and working together for justt his sort of opportunity.
What the previous correspondents who rail against dictatorships and ego driven families like those in power in Burma, fail to mention is that most of thoese ghastly governments are the products of western colonial game playing, and border setting in order to satisfy ecopnomic and patronage imperatives.
Burma is the product of a pernicious British system just as what is Iran now arose from years of US 'occupation' and manipulation of the Iranian government ably assisted by the vile Savak.

The powerful thing is that the monks have refused to take alms from the military or their elite, effectively excommunicating them. The very supertitious leaders may think twice about committing sins that would send them to the Budhhist equivalent of hell.
But there are big players official and non official (like the Chiew Chaou Chinese who run the drug cartels and are standing by) and of course the Thai junta and the totalitarian governments of Lao and Cambodia who may not be happy to see people power recover.

Cutting off visas and banking access in the west shows how parochial and 'westocentric' our thinking still is in these times of Asian economic resurgence. Who needs ANZ when they have HKSB?
I have many dear friends in and out of Burma and I pray that the transition will be epaecful, but i fear not.. the stakes are too high.
Where would Thung Shwe's daughter stiore her USD8 million worth of wedding diamonds?

Posted by: Melody Kemp on September 25, 2007 11:58 AM

"Burma has no oil"-oh yes it does and heaps of gas too.
One of the reasons that the junta strive to hang on to power is the wealth flowing to them from burma's rich resources.
Burma is much like cambodia and african countries,they have no chance to democratise when those at the top get richer.
Give me the commie governments of vietnam and china anytime.
But the big question in burma is,how can one create a new government out of nothing?
It's not going to happen.

Posted by: marklatham on September 25, 2007 12:22 PM

Actually, Burma has quite alot of oil and natural gas. which is why China is so eager to maintain order there. The odds of the US or Australia attackin burma are next to nil. This is Chinas backyard, and nobody wants to antagonise the Panda.

with that said however, Even China cannot halt a international outcry. They may be forced to accept the inevitable and permit the junta to fall, ONLY if the international community offers a united front.

Posted by: Charles on September 25, 2007 12:34 PM

Burma does have oil and gas and revenues from these industries enrich the military regime with the assistance of foreign companies. Check out this website for some information http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2007/03/24/burma15557.htm
I dont expect the military to compromise unfortunately as they seems to be pretty attached to their vast wealth power and influence.

Posted by: karen on September 25, 2007 12:36 PM

reThink said:

"Hey Marcus,

Do you think Sydney is the only city in the world with a Botannical gardens?'

Marcus responds:

"Hey reThink,

I don't think Sydney is the only city in the world with a Botannical garden, neither do I think Burma is the only country in this world run by a military junta."

The question is, reThink, the Burmese junta is only unpopular in the West because it's backed by the Chinese.

Now if it were a nice junta backed by the Americans like the many central and Sounth American juntas it'll be very popular indeed.

Do you see some sort of double standards there?

Like I said, a country run by a military junta. So what's the problem again?

Now reThink that, reThink.

Posted by: Marcus on September 25, 2007 12:38 PM

Ive been following the changes (and lack of them) in Burma since I was on the Thai-Bumese border over 15 years ago. I have no idea what will happen next. Chances are it wont be pretty.

Posted by: awatcher on September 25, 2007 12:48 PM

Yes, I totally agree that if Burma had oil, US and Australia would have been there for long.

But I am happy that at least these demonstrations are bring Burma to international attentions. I am so proud of those taking part over there. You won't really fully appreciate their courage and gut to take part in these demonstration under the brutal military government. They are basically putting their lives on the line. They can get shot at any minutes. I am serious, they can die tomorrow. That's how serious and volatile the situation is.
In terms of how all this might be resolved, I'd say we need a bit of hand from both the military itself (or part of it) and the international community. I hope all can be resolved by peaceful means and not another bloodbath again.

People of Burma have suffered enough and it's about time for a change!

May peace be on Burma and her people.

Posted by: Spee Rose on September 25, 2007 12:50 PM

One wonders if Australia will end up like this.

Is free speech stiffled in Australia yet?

Perhaps not to the same level as in Burma, but there are some worrying laws that we have in this country now. Things like sedition and detention without charge come to mind.

Any one who looks at the Burmese regime and shakes their head should cast a mirror back here and look to where Australia is heading.

My heart goes out to the people of Burma, I hope they get what they want without blood shed, history probably dictates this will not be the case.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Posted by: Ken on September 25, 2007 12:55 PM

Jon pontificated:

"Only when enough people want it to happen will things change. The majority are driven by corrupt self interest rather than an egalitarian view of their world."

I find that to be a very unsympathetic and simplistic view. I visited Burma in 2002 and I met a lot of people who (quietly) stated their firm feelings against the current regime. You've got a lot of educated, intelligent people there who are trapped by a government that is uninterested in securing them a viable future as part of the greater world community. Rise up then, you might say. But would you, if the slightest word in the wrong ear could land you and your family in prison, doing years of hard labour simply for telling a joke against the government or harbouring a foreigner in your home? Several of the people I met felt ashamed because they couldn't even invited an innocent tourist like me home for tea, in case a neighbour reported them to the police! I found most Burmese people to be incredibly warm, generous, and courageous. They desperately want positive change, and I pray that this is the beginning of that change. They deserve it.

Posted by: Kerri on September 25, 2007 1:09 PM

And Burma is different from Singapore how exactly?

Posted by: Jeremy on September 25, 2007 1:26 PM

Melody Kemp made a comment that is all to familiar with the way dictators and their compatriots try to validate their persistent political debate about social abuse from higher above.

Sure I agree that Britain and the US being historically colonial powers that have stripped many countries of their dignity and self-importance over many decades. However, many were given their independence and opportunities to progress into fully functioning menbers of the international community, but this is NOT a REASON to allow them to ignore past and present social abuse.

It's so easy to blame past experiences for current issues, but you can't blame anyone for your current decisions and actions...

Posted by: Macca on September 25, 2007 1:48 PM

Jeremy,

Burma is different form Singapore in that, in Burma people are dying out of starving and hunger, having no where to live, being raped, being taken away and locked up for no reason and seeing and hearing nothing............. I wish you were there for a day to see how Burmese people are suffering and then rethink of what you said!

Posted by: Spee Rose on September 25, 2007 1:54 PM

Burma does have oil (up to 3.2 billion barrels apparently) and natural gas (90+ trillion cubic feet), and they are some of the few industries that foreign companies are investing in.

Posted by: Chris on September 25, 2007 1:56 PM

Oh reThink,

Having mentioned our honourable junta buddies in central and South America, I neglected to give credit to these other very friendly military juntas in Asia & the Middle-East...

Like our allies Turkey, Parkistan, Egypt who lend us a helping hand in torture. Saudi which is a junta in all but name. Large parts of the now "liberated" Afghanistan which is run by friendly war-lords, do they count as "juntas"?

Our "juntas" in Algeria & Morocco who keeps lids on the Muslim brotherhood for us there, and many of our Junta buddies in Africa.

So again, what's the problem with Burma?

Oh I see, it's not the junta that is the problem, it's the backer of the junta and the resources that the junta sits on that is the real problem.

Posted by: Marcus on September 25, 2007 2:03 PM

"Burma does have oil (up to 3.2 billion barrels apparently) and natural gas (90+ trillion cubic feet), and they are some of the few industries that foreign companies are investing in."

Hence the problem with this particular junta now and not the other juntas who are already in our pockets.

And for your information Macca,

"...people are dying out of starving and hunger, having no where to live, being raped, being taken away and locked up for no reason and seeing and hearing nothing..."

sounds remarkbly like the stuff we heard about the Iraqis prior to their annihilation in our hands.

Can't you even come up with anything new?

Posted by: Marcus on September 25, 2007 2:07 PM

Bare-footed, bare-headed Buddhist monks have arisen, the everyday Burmese citizen has arisen, even WOMEN have arisen but yet the 'cowards of Burma' the BURMESE MILITARY whose duty it is to protect the burmese people are the killers and brutulisers of the Burmese people. The coward Burmese military prop up and defend the 'Hitlers of Asia' the Burmese generals who deck their daughters with diamonds from head to toe (see Youtube) spending 5 times the national health budget on diamonds while their people languish in poverty and those who dare speak out are tortured and murdered.

Coward Burmese military - these are your people and now it's your call but as in 1988 you murdered thousands for your own gain and you are expected to do the same again once world attention is no longer focused on you.

These war criminals, rapists and murderers must be brought before an International Tribunal and tried for crimes against humanity.

Posted by: Hans on September 25, 2007 2:25 PM

Burma like it's SE Asian neighbours including Indonesia does have oil & lots of valuable minerals. It was an English colony for a long time. There was a Scottish Company in there -Burmah Oils - (now owned by Castrol) for decades until the miltitary nationalised oil production & stuffed it up.

So it makes you wonder just what is going on.

Unfortunately the brave Burmese people are seriously suffering & need outside assistance that isn't going to exploit them one way or another.

Posted by: Meg Gilmour on September 25, 2007 2:36 PM

What people in the West need to realise is, whatever the change a country like Burma needs, it has to happen from within without outside intervention.

Sure the change may not happen quick enough to our liking but that's the way it works. Any change that is sparked by outside intervention will only brew more trouble in the long run.

Observe what happened in China since 1989 and the foreign sponsored colour revolutions in Ukraine and central Asia.

A (even if extremely) slow home grown transformation of political systems is always better than a quick foreign transplant. It benefits the people when there's a slow, steady and peaceful internal transition in political system than a sudden change coming from outside which only really in the end benefits the foreign sponsors and large businesses at the expense of the people.

It's in the Western psyche that if there's a problem, clamour for quick action using whatever is at hand. The good intention is then hijacked and used by people with other agendas to benefit from the situation and create a even bigger mess in the name of doing good.

Don't you people ever learn? Sit back and observe before rushing in and do.

Posted by: Marcus on September 25, 2007 2:37 PM

Marcus,

Because other countries are having the same situation, doesn’t mean that there is no problem with Burma.

What you’re suggesting is like we should just shut up and put up with it, cos there are other people in thee same situation.

Ah, would you shut up and do nothing for dying out of hunger, being homeless, being raped, being taken away and locked up and even being killed for no reason, JUST BECAUSE THESE THINGS HAPPEN TO OTHERS TOO?

I cannot comprehend your thinking!

Posted by: Spee Rose on September 25, 2007 2:42 PM

No Spee Rose,

If I were "...dying out of hunger, being homeless, being raped, being taken away and locked up and even being killed for no reason..."

Then I'd take matters into my own hands and do whatever I'll have to do to survive the situation. It probably won't be pretty but hey many people had to pay in their life and blood to secure their own freedom and I'm prepared to do no less.

But one thing I'd never do is to realy on foreigners the likes of you to be my saviour and hope that you are capable of saving me and not exploit me even more later on.

If I can't even trust my own people what reason do I have to trust you?

Do you comprehend my thinking now Spee Rose?

Posted by: Marcus on September 25, 2007 3:06 PM

I find the US attitude, and Australia's too, re the situation in Burma quite hypocritical. It wasn't long ago that George W, for the second time, threatened the people of El Salvador with economic sanctions if they voted for a left wing candidate. He also warned the people of Nicaragua of a similar vote if they did likewise just a few months ago!

President Chavez won his last election in Venezuela with over 67% of the vote. 10 times, either he or his party have won elections, but the US continue to abuse him and the people for wanting to give back much of the wealth to the poor, who are in the majority. Venezuela has lots of oil, which the government wants to spend the sale of, on the people, for the first time in decades. Who were the past 'winners', predominantly US oil companies of course! People are being educated, poor people seeing a doctor for the first time in their 70-90 years. Literacy levels are now in line with UN requirements. Chavez is not interested in the IMF or free trade agreements that favour US corporate interests, but leave his people in abject poverty. How about the US view of democracy in that country? The same is true for Bolivia; has been true for too many countries in the region.

Sadly, both the US and the Howard government only support, 'free if you agree speech'. Those who don't follow this doctrine are either locked up, flown to other countries to be tortured and detained, or referred to as a 'mob'or 'ferals'(protesters in Australia prior to and since the invasion and occupation of Iraq). Plenty of evidence on the public record of the US's flagrant abuse of democratic human rights via the PATRIOT Act, and the so-called war on terror. CIA personnel accused of using airspace, including that of Britain, transporting'suspects' to Europe. They are facing legal action (in absentia in Italy, for criminal activities in locking up innocent people outside of the US, sometimes in Syria, Egypt or in European countries. (Several documentaries and articles about this).

The holier than thou attitude of Alexander Downer is too much to swallow. His contempt for all disenters does not resemble even a hint of democratic thought. I challenge anyone to believe, that if Iraq did not have such huge oil reserves, then it would not warrant spending so much money on military intervention. Hardly worth invading for their date palms?

Bush, Howard, Rice and Downer embracing democracy? I'd like to see that? I watched the 'police state' during APEC. Didn't look much different to Burma, El Salvador or Chile to me! I also recall the balaclavas and dogs during the waterfront war. Apparently, the intervention of the army was also considered. How about the 9 navy vessels and personnel used during the time of, and after the Tampa dispute? (I can list them). Locking up traumatized women, children, the elderly and babies (before and after their birth)?What's wrong with some people, lost your memories? Cornelia Rau and Vivien Alvarez, locked up due to the abrogation of attention to human rights. Vivien was left in the Phillipines, AFTER the 'mistake' was known, (prior to and immediately after her forced removal) and left there for several years. Human rights protests by Howard government ministers? What a sad and despicable joke! But I'm not laughing!

Posted by: Naomi Cartledge on September 25, 2007 3:25 PM

It is a big shame that Australia Government has provided a lot of aids to Junta to kill the innocent people from Burma.

I can't believe that Australia Government has no plan to push Junta to arrange full and fair parliamentary democracy election in Burma.

Dear Marcus

You have never been in front of the machine guns, those really give you live ammunitions. If you dare, why don't you visit Yangon right now? It's not just pretending.

Posted by: Richard on September 25, 2007 3:31 PM

Marcus,

First, I am not a foreigner to Burma. In fact, I was born and bred in Burma and I lived there till 20. I actually took part in 1988 uprising as well as 1996 student demonstration against this regime.

Back then, we took matters into our own hands. But sadly, it was with our bare hands and did nothing to the control by the regime that uses arm power at its disposal. And in deed, many lives have lost and many are still fading away, as the struggle and sacrifice continue.

And again, this generation has risen up and is trying to take matter into their own hand. DO NOT question the courage they are showing. I don’t think you fully appreciate how much gut you need to have give an applaud to the demonstration, let alone to take part in it. A mere fact that you are pictured at the demonstration by the gov’s informer, can get you in to trouble. In fact, the trouble will not be just for you, they will make sure, the trouble will be also for your wife, kids, other family members, friends and actually anyone who’s associated with you.

So, it’s easier to be said than done. And I honestly don’t think without international intervention/pressure, then the same thing, as happen in 1988, will happen. Many are going to die for nothing. How much and what can you really do, if you are sprayed by bullets all over your body. That’s what they will do and that’s how it will be ended, if you want wait and see.

The only other hope I have is that, if the military (army) takes the side of people, then we could have a peaceful resolution. But, this is highly unlikely.

So, I would still urge all of us outside of Burma to do whatever we can to free people of Burma. Please……………………….. not another bloodbath, not another killing spree.

Posted by: Spee Rose on September 25, 2007 4:01 PM

Dear Richard,

I'm not in Rangoon now because I'm not Burmese. Like i said I'm prepared to do whatever that is to secure my own freedom not the freedom of the Burmese, I leave that to the Burmese themselves.

I understand that the machine gun is a terrifying weapon, but if my only other option to facing the machine guns is "...dying out of hunger, being homeless, being raped, being taken away and locked up and even being killed for no reason..."

Then I say facing machine guns it is and try my darnest to get hold of one myself. It's not bravery, it's only self preservation. You hope it won't come to that, but freedom is earned and is never granted by a foreigner, unfortunately.

Posted by: Marcus on September 25, 2007 4:08 PM

Marcus,

I see you think Burma’s got more to loose if International community get involved? And you think Burmese people are not doing enough themselves!!!!!!!!

Look, I think what you are saying is equivalent to saying, “I won’t do anything if I see my neighbour abusing his wife and kids, and I think they have to stand up for herself”.

But you see, they have now means and ways to fight against the abusive husband/father!

That’s exactly the case. The military regime have systematically abused Burmese people for so long, we have lost all means and ways (physically and intellectually even). That’s why we need outside pressure. People in Burma are doing (and actually more than) what they can, but it just not seems enough. Hence they need a bit of help (not because they don't wanna do what they should do, but because they can't do what they need to do. I hope and pray that there are some people with kind heart to land a hand.

Posted by: Spee Rose on September 25, 2007 4:44 PM

Again it is all about Oil . But this time it is not the USA's fault ,but rather the UK

Posted by: stephen greenslade on September 25, 2007 4:57 PM

yeah... 250 000 people marched for the Australian Government to say 'sorry', and even more marched against the war in Iraq. Governments don't take any notice of people unless they have weapons in their hands.

Posted by: lee on September 25, 2007 5:08 PM

To say that the Burmese dictatorship will accept change is to accept that this country's leaders are rational and educated human beings. But we know that they are uneducated, ignorant savages, more at home in the jungles of Uganda than they are in a progressive 21st century. For this reason I fear that change will only come with revolution and bloodshed, and not by peaceful and rational evolution. Hopefully most of the blood will belong to the leaders of the Military!

Posted by: Ronnie on September 25, 2007 5:16 PM

All that wil happen if the demonstrations continue, is that the Military Government will enforce their laws with gunfire - as they have before. And all that the rest of the world will do is have headlines reading "Chaos and Catastrophe !" but nothing else. Ohg yes, the UN might impose sanctions, but they will affect only those who are not in the military, and the result will be another run of starvation and death of ordinary civilians.
Anyone in any Government got any ideas as to what really ought to happen ? And the guts to make it so ?

Posted by: Geoff Cass on September 26, 2007 12:11 PM

the problem is China - change in Burma will only come once the people's republic makes a case of it. Governement's critical of the regime in Burma, such as Australia, are flogging a dead horse until they make more of an effort to get the chinese on board.

Posted by: chops on September 26, 2007 12:43 PM

20 years seems to be a generational cycle. Bloodbath can only go so far to intimidate people. No wonder that butcher Deng Xiaoping was reported as saying that the crackdown on Tiananmen Square 'will give us (commies)20 years of stability.'

It is nearly 20 years since the last massacre in Burma, as well as in China. The people who take to the streets are not brought up in fear so there they are.

I pray for the downfall of those repressive regimes and the coming of age for democracy. My admiration goes to the brave protesters in Burma, and one day in Beijing again.

Posted by: Li on September 26, 2007 4:47 PM

Perhaps we could stage a horrific act of terrorism here, or in the US, blame it on Burma and accuse them of having weapons of mass destruction... then we'd have the right to wage war on them, wouldn't we?

Posted by: Tracy on September 26, 2007 4:47 PM

As usual the United Nations shows itself to be completely useless, sitting back wailing and weeping but doing nothing tangible for the people of Burma. Will it take thousands more deaths, countless arrests and torture for the free world to raise their collective eyebrows and then dismiss the plight of these enslaved but heroic people. What is Downer doing? talking, something he is expert at, but as for action, he and his boss Howard and therefore us the Australian nation, sit on our backsides and offer sympathy. But can we do? Downer asks. How about galvanising his so called American friends, the poms, the French, the Germans and the bloody Indians and Chinese who seem to be very convenient mates when talking money and trade but the lives of the Burmese mean nothing. Why is the world doing nothing, I am ashamed and tearful over this abandonment of a country who cannot help themselves, unless they die in the streets.I am ashamed as an Australian.

Posted by: david on September 26, 2007 5:02 PM

I think that what has happened in Burma in the past many years is dreadful. I believe that Australia should take a very high profile in protesting against what the Junta continues to do. We recently had the meeting of APEC in Australia which would have been an ideal place for strong protest but nothing was said and we had the vision of our own, and other, self-serving politicians doing nothing important - as usual!!

I took part in the protests in Sydney leading up to the current war in Iraq. About a week after the invasion started I was in Burma. I remember speaking to a local man who wondered aloud why the US wouldn’t come and “save” Burma. I recall thinking how terribly tragic it would be to have US bombs raining indiscriminately down on these beautiful, peaceful people (not to mention the resources divvied up between the “conquering heroes”).

The monks have shown great courage and great defiance leading these protests. The very least the international community can do is support the monks and the people. Will we stand back and watch if there is carnage on the streets?

Recommended links for people who want to offer support and help to the people of Burma?

Posted by: q on September 26, 2007 7:55 PM

We literally returned from Myanmar on Sunday and saw the smaller protestsa with 100 people. The people there are some of the friendliest I have ever encountered and for them to protest you realise just how far they have to have been pushed.

We heard some real horror stories. One man told us about his sister who was raped by soldiers and then poisoned herself.

I really hope that things don't turn uglier over there because they are a beautiful people and deserve better that the corrupt government they've got.

Posted by: Brett Cannon on September 26, 2007 11:17 PM

Naomi Cartledge you should be congratulated for a brilliant post - everything you post here is right on the money. The US has been intervening in Latin America for decades, usually toppling democratically elected left-wing governments. Next September 11 how about we remember the other one in Chile in 1973 when the US instigated coup did for Allende, sure not as dramatic as towers being razed, but many more died as a result.

And here we have Burma and they will not intervene to support a democratically elected government - from 17 years ago we shouldn´t forget. The comments by Marcus are stunning in their naivete....just how are they likely to make the change from within? The Burmese people were savagely repressed to the tune of 3,000 dead in 1988 they made their democratic choice in 1990 and it was simply ignored by the junta so how´s this wonderful change going to take place? It´s not a given that Burma will be like Iraq, after all they have already voted for their government.

Nothing will happen, because we gloss over the wrongs of China and India - I mean we justify selling uranium to India although they have a recognised flashpoint in the Kashmir...it´s not all cricket, curries and Bollywood musicals with India. And Singapore aren´t altogether happy with us joining ASEAN because of our stance against Burma...well sod them, you can´t chew gum yet it´s absolutely fine to trade and support a vicious military junta - some perspective please.

Posted by: Phil on September 28, 2007 8:49 AM

It's all been said above, but I can't withhold my anger at the hypocrisy and cynicism of the Australian government over this situation.

Mealy-mouthed, pompous Downer and his foreign affairs department 'carpeting' the Burmese ambassador and urgin them to find peaceful means to resolve things.
The same mob who were all gung-ho to send Aussies over the Iraq at the drop of a cowboy hat.

How is it that Australians can end up with leaders who are so un-Australian?

Posted by: Ray on September 28, 2007 2:17 PM

Hey Phil,

Don't get carried away there. I never said that the Burmese are likely to succeed if they were to confront the junta, I only said in response to Spee Rose's plea that if the situation there is so unbearable then they might as well kill themselves trying to overthrow the junta.

If that's not worth it then don't, who cares? Not us anyway. We have supported so many juntas in the past in other countries it's not like the Burmese variety is any worse.

All I'm trying to say is that don't get excited about the juntas not while we ourselves still support many of them.