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Author
Topic: Cost of breaking the silence ? (Read 8157 times)

I'm tired of staying silent about my status:I am not ashamed about myself, my status. I want to be free to exist as I am, with my strengths, my weaknesses, whether at work, with friends or elsewhere.

As such, I am about to break the silence. I'm thinking starting disclosing to my family, my friends, my workmates and maintining a blog, with my photo and my name on it.

My main concern relates to the work. The rest does not scare me. But maybe I'm wrong. So my question: what is the true cost of breaking the silence? What are the benefits ?As such, I'm looking for experience.Thanks

I've never been quite about my status; but then again back in those days when I found out, my partner and I were both incredibly sick and probably dying. We told everyone from the nieces and nephews to our moms and dads. Though of course it wasn't the easiest thing to do, as being HIV+ was almost defintely a death sentence back then, it was both a liberating event and opened the door for support from our friends and family. Many were actually more upset that we hadn't told them sooner. Without their support over these two decades, I could never have made it this far.

I would have to urge caution on blabbing about it at work, however. While my blog and all the speaking and volunteer work that I do with my ASO pretty well puts me and my status out there; on disability I don't worry about co-workers or homophobic bosses either.

Although I would defintely encourage you to inform your family, Good Luck and Best Wishes with whatever your choice is

Tell whomever you feel like telling. It's about what will make you feel strong. Dont expect support from everyone, in fact don't expect anything. But Im sure you will get some good return.

That said, I am curious what how it would make you feel good talking about this at work? I can see reasons for that, and against. Just wondering what your reasons are for telling at work. What are the costs and benefits of telling at work?

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“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

It can help you decide who you might like to tell if you take some time to think about how people will react to your news. You might find it useful to ask youself:

1..Who can I trust with the information that I'm HIV +?

2..Will they offer me support?

3..Will they judge me?

4..Will they respect my confidentiality?

Once you have decide who to tell, you might find it useful to let them know who else you have told so they can support each other also.

As for work, if this is going to be a problem or if it's going to stress you out I would leave it, or maybe just tell your boss, if you feel comfortable doing it, and remember they are not allowed to disclose your status to other employees.

I think about whether to tell family and friends about as much as to when to start meds. I ask myself what what would be the benefit of telling my family. My brother found out, because the hospital disclosed my status to him. It has actually caused some resentment. He knows and has never once inquired about my health, whether I'm on meds, or how I'm doing mentally. We recently had a big argument over this. The argument started over something else and evolved to why he doesn't seem to care. He replied saying HIV was no big deal anymore and I can't expect special treatment from people. Without actually saying it, he basically said I had brought it on myself. People say awful things in an argument that they don't really mean and later regret. Maybe he regrets the way he has acted.

Currently, I'm staying at my "in-laws" in Florida while on vacation. I got a sunburn on my head and forehead to the point where I got some blisters that were weeping fluid. It made me think how they would react if they knew I was poz. Would they be all worried about the weeping fluid from the blisters and using one of their wash-cloths on my head. Maybe they would not freak out and would perfectly fine. I just don't know. And, I'm not sure I'm ready to deal with any rejection and being treated differently.

So, I'd say if you're ready to tell people, then do it. Just make sure you're mentally prepared if people treat you differently. It could cause many hurt feelings. Sometimes family can be more cruel than complete strangers. Or, it very well could be a good experience. As others said, I would think a lot about disclosing at work. I realize by being totally open is the only way to reduce all the stigma. Most people I've known with cancer don't debate about whether to let everyone know. They usually tell all their family and even strangers. Keep us posted on how it goes. I think telling people is really the best thing to do. Keeping secrets is not good. Plus, it may help our friends realize HIV does really happen to people and they'll be more careful. Maybe I'll get the courage to do it soon.

it was both a liberating event and opened the door for support from our friends and family.I would have to urge caution on blabbing about it at work, however.

Quote from: mecch

Dont expect support from everyone, in fact don't expect anything.Just wondering what your reasons are for telling at work. What are the costs and benefits of telling at work?

Quote from: anniebc

2..Will they offer me support?3..Will they judge me?

Quote from: tednlou2

And, I'm not sure I'm ready to deal with any rejection and being treated differently. So, I'd say if you're ready to tell people, then do it. Just make sure you're mentally prepared if people treat you differently. It could cause many hurt feelings.I realize by being totally open is the only way to reduce all the stigma.

My idea was forged over time reading blogs, forums and other articles on the internet from people disclosing openly their status. I find their attitude noble, liberating and helping (lowering the impact HIV may have on their life).

I also currently work in a country where the rate of HIV positive people is one of the highest in the world. As such, I can assume that few, if not many people around me, are poz as well. Why not unite was the idea. But yeah, even from poz people can come the rejection, fearing for e.g. others to become suspicious about their own status, by having become closer to me.

As for the reaction of negative, anything is possible. And the worst too. This is a serious issue as well.

Still, the "do not disclose (without be sure of what you are doing)" trend in your answers were a bit surprising for me. I would have thought that over the time, this idea of disclosing would have become more obvious to many, as we are becoming more and more familiar to HIV.

But yeah, if it has took time for me to adapt to my status, there are no reasons why it won't take time to those I'm disclosing to as well (if they ever adapt..).

In several of your responses, the question of the support was indirectly suggested. Indeed, that was probably one of my motivations. But also enforcing a right to exist as I am, and getting ride of this heavy secret, which sometime, can explain some of my feeling, attitude, that won't have an obvious explaination otherwise.

In conclusion, thank a lot for your answers! They have inspired my decision to not disclose and my answers above. I haven't also found in any answers someone sharing a successful experiences (but a reminder of reality, good questions and warning). And as some have said, it's a one-way and final decision. And this is scarying. It make me think also that a bad consequence could have been avoided just by shutting up. So why take this risk.So I will keep my status secret. It is certainly the wisest decision to take. And disclose only to those who must know. But hey, what a shame.

Well now that you have responded I feel I can put my two cents in. This is a public forum so the issue isn't just yours it also involves everyone.

I am surprised you decided not to disclose. I don't think anyone here questioned the value of disclosing especially to some close friends and some family. Furthermore, I think everyone here recognizes the value of general public disclosure for cutting stigma.

The major concern of mine, for your case, was - what might be the cost of telling at work? Could it impact your professional life in anyway, as well as perhaps your financial situation. At the end of the day, in many countries, in many professions, colleagues and employers do NOT care about your soul or care about your personal life fulfillment, etc. Colleagues are not friends, certainly not support partners - for many many people. Employers are just using your services, and in many countries and or many jobs, have little if no interest in how your life plays out - the profit motive rules. This isnt always the case, of course.

In fact, you gave no specific about how this might play out in your workplace. That's a pity.

When I seroconvered, I told any friend, close or not, dozens and dozens, because i found it empowering and I also had just sufferred horribly from a relationship with someone who not only could not disclose but manipulated the few who knew terribly because of the stigma and ignorance surrounding the disease.

I was surprised when i disclosed because quite a few people said they didn't know anyone with HIV, and there are certainly a lot of us around these parts of Switzerland, so politically my disclosure had value and I also found it personally liberating. A few years later, my HIV status is casually part of the social reality and its nice when friends ask about my health and I can respond and or educate as I feel like at the moment.

In my situation, i see no gain whatsoever that would accrue to me personally by telling at work. I have switched careers and countries a few times and while I have occasionally been in workplaces interested in my life fulfillment, other times I have not. And i have seen too many people just dumped in the garbage to meet the financial imperatives of an employer, or the goals of the institution, in the case of non-profits.

If HIV were presenting me a handicap to doing my job well, and there were a workaround to the handicap to allow me to do my job well - that could happen by disclosing, then I would disclose.

For example there was a thread here from a guy who worked in retail and he had the runs everyday, but managers were preventing him from going to the bathroom. In a situation like that, disclosure to protect ones job seems to make sense.

Frankly there are all kinds of situation in which disclosure could have benefits to the person, or to society.

I feel like you brought up a topic, listened to responses, but ironically, for a topic about "DISCLOSURE" - you didn't disclose to us what might be as stake for you in any of the three arenas mentioned - friendships, family, job.

So if you are surprised at our response, it seems to me you misread our response rather severely.

« Last Edit: January 09, 2011, 08:09:39 AM by mecch »

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“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

I had mentioned in another thread how I told my parents.There were good and bad . They've been great but I csnt help but feel weak like inferior cause something is in me. So I don't know if I would or not if the situation was different. My mom had mentioned that I should tell my sister. I said no why should I. She lives cross country why burden her with this stress? I'm on meds ud , cd up to 407 and % up 10 pts to 22. I see no value in telling her.Now on the good of telling SOME people is the support. Like when I melted down last night it was nice to talk to my bf about it , to have someone to vent.Like it or not there is still a dirty man/woman stigma to this thing and people will judge and yap .

I'm very open about my hiv status and I've never had a real problem. Sure, there have been a handful (out of the possibly hundreds who know) of ignorant responses, but those were brushed off like flies and I had no on-going problems as a result.

I've found through my own personal experience and from watching the experiences of others that a lot of how my status is received by others is very much influenced by my own attitude. I am not ashamed of my status - and somehow that seems to translate into people not bothering to try to make me ashamed or trying to vilify me.

I don't try to hide my status and that somehow seems to translate into people not talking about it to others, I guess because it's not a secret. When you try to hide something, people try to out you. If you out yourself, it's yesterday's news and people get bored.

And when you try to hide your hiv status, that makes it a secret - and because it's directly related to sexual behaviour, it's a juicy secret and people love nothing more than a juicy secret. But making your hiv status a secret telegraphs shame. If you're not ashamed, why keep it a secret?

And if you're shamed by your sexual behaviour, perhaps counselling or therapy is in order. We were made to be sexual beings, so why be ashamed of what we were made to be? I don't get that aspect of the human psyche that seems to be so prevalent. There are plenty of reasons why we have a sex drive, both biological and psychological. It's unhealthy to try to repress our sexuality.

Anyway, I digress.

John, as long as you do not live in an area where religious fundamentalism would put your safety at risk, I see no reason to not be out concerning your hiv status.

As for your job, that will all depend on what sort of company it is and not only who runs it (are they religious fundamentalists?) but also who the people you work most closely with are like - again, are they religious fundamentalists.

Unfortunately, religious fundamentalists of all flavours tend to be the people who are most likely to physically or otherwise try to damage you due to your hiv status.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

6 month es ago when I found out that I am positive I decided then and there I am not living my live hiding. It just supports the stigma of HIV. I told my family, my friends, and my work. I work as a general manager for a national restaurant chain. I am blessed when they came to me and said your not the first employee and I won't be the last. I told them because if I did get sick or if I cut myself while cooking how would I handle that. Once again they came back with throw the food away and the cutting board wrap up the cut and move on. I'm finding we or let me say I make this a bigger deal then others around me do.

With my friends its been one of two things. Not one has turned away, but I see the worry in there face. This is especially true with my best friend, who actually is a nurse. Friend doesn't but our bond he's more like a brother to me. A example would be the other day is was whining about getting older and gaining some weight. I (just joking around) said well at least you don't have the aids. I started laughing and when I looked over he began to cry. I asked whats wrong and his response was (you just caught me off guard). Even my friends at work including my straight male bosses have actually come up and given me a hug.

My family has been the same. I actually feel closer to all those around me since I have told them. I personally believe that until we stop hiding our status we will always have the stigma. I have found alot of acceptance here as well. Free yourself and come out with your status. Find out now who your real Friends are and who truly accepts you and get rid and weed out those you don't need in your life. That way you can live it with only those who love you

I personally believe that until we stop hiding our status we will always have the stigma.

Absolutely. The more we hide, the more we have to hide.

One thing I have to wonder about though, would your company tell anyone who cut themselves and bled onto a chopping board to throw it out? That is totally unnecessary. It would just need a good wash, no different to any other time you use it and get a contaminant (such as an unwanted ingredient) on it. I agree with throwing any contaminated food out, but that should be the case no matter who bleeds on it and not because of hiv either.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

That's my bad Ann, my wording not theirs. I work for noodles and company and they have been amazing. See one of the nice things about being open and honest about everything is when I want to share I don't have to worry if anyone will see this. Its out there and its so so liberating. I encourage all here to give it a try. If not with your work then at least with your friends so you have some one to talk to.

I also don't want to push anyone. We all need to do things on our own time. I just read some of these post saying no don't tell. I'm just want you to know its not all doom and gloom. You may just be surprised at how easy it could be.

i'm hesitant to come out of the hiv closet. when i first found out i told all of my immediate best friends (like 10 people), my family and my boss. i joined a support group, came here (thank goddess) and have been living ever since.

currently, i only tell my medical providers and sexual partners that are repeat offenders. and i tell those who become close to me. the ones that find me through the personals here or other dating sites know my status.

im not quite at public advocacy or very open but i understand its necessity and am thankful and deeply respectful of those who are.

I was living in Loz Angeles where talking about HIV was street corner talking. For the first few years I had no problem with disclosure.

I moved up north to a [lace I like to call Flake County. According to the Board of Supervisors, County of Flake, there was no HIV in the County of Flake. I served as Chair on the Community Advisory Board on HIV for the 1st year and remained active until I moved to the Russian River. I didn't know anyone hear and 5 years later, I still don't but at L.I.F.E., I learned, "We Could Lose 75% of Our Funding." RWCA Title I was in jeopardy.

With over 10 years living with AIDS and over 30 years in advertising but disabled, I joined the Commission on AIDS and all of the committees, sub committees and task forces. My job as a volunteer consumer of HIV services was to build a web site and write news articles on related HIV funding issues. I biult a network of editors and reporters, one in every newspaper and radio station in 5 counties who will print anything I write, which often included first and last name, AIDS diagnosis who lives in Forestville (800+ or- population). I was interviewed on the TV program 25 Years of AIDS (local channel), my topic was employment prospects for people with AIDS. Everyone knows and people here treat me with respect.

About 3 years ago, I met someone on one of the dating sites and wrote thousands of words about disclosure because... He is HIV- and I have AIDS. He is the love of my life and I am his.

I have been disabled since 1996 and beginning in 1998, I was feeling well enough to rejoin the work force. With a BA in Media Communications and nearly 30 years in advertising, business to business sales and marketing everything from a washerless faucet to industrial safety programs of my own design and a proven track record, I sent out over 400 resumes to net about 5 interviews and no job offers.

A Loz Angeles import/export company did hire me for a few minutes. I was to spend 6 months in L.A. and 6 months in Guam every year and I asked about the availability of HIV medications in Guam so I was not hired.

A very large commercial insurance company said, "welcome to the company." I was to design and manage safety programs for their western states medical center clients and was never started.

My health care provider network was looking for a media contact (part time). After all these years as a volunteer, a $36,000 salary for a 3 day work week would have improved the quality of my life considerably. It was a non-profit provider with 3 small local clinics. The interview was with the President, the VP of Operations and the VP of Personnel. I was also serving on the Board of Directors. The 3 professionals agreed I was the most qualified of the applicants and asked to be prepared for a group interview with the BOD. I was a shoe in. Then one day the VP Of Operations saw me leaving the "Living With HIV Support Group" and I was told another applicant was hired.

The City of Napa had a part time position in the safety department. For my second interview, I designed a safety program using industry specific monthly safety themes for every department within the city. Not hired...

Based on the last 12 years of my life with AIDS, I can fairly say American companies are not capable of making any decisions on hiring a person with HIV, they are not educated on the topic and not interested. Twelve years of being "self employed" does not look good on a resume and in all cases a "better qualified applicant" will be found.

My recommendation before you disclose to your employer is talk to a lawyer FIRST. Need a lawyer? Here's some www.findlaw.com. Most attorneys charge around $350 per hour, money well spent Have the best dayMichael

I was just diagnosed last August (Friday the 13th to be exact, ha - I try to find some humor and irony in that even though I’m not superstitious), and have only told my parents, sister, and one friend. I chose to tell one friend because I don’t live near any of my family and felt as if I needed someone who I could talk to close by who wasn’t a doctor. I actually have closer friends than her, but chose to tell her because I knew she would understand and would never tell anyone.

I live with my best friend and have been battling with whether or not to tell her, not out of selfish reasons, but because I know it would devastate her. She, like I was, is ignorant about the virus/disease, and will immediately assume I am going to die soon, and I don’t want her to have to feel that. Eventually, she would definitely understand, but I don’t want her to feel burdened with keeping this secret like I feel burdened. It wouldn’t be fair for her to worry, and not have anyone to talk to except for me.

Having said all that, I would love for every single one of my friends to know because I know they would all be supportive. The problem would be the other people who inevitably end up finding out, and are quick to judge and talk--especially the gay community. I don’t wanna be labeled as “the guy who has aids” when I go out like I know a few others are.

And at the same time, I know the only way people will become more educated about this awful disease is through full disclosure of those who have it. When someone you care about is sick, you learn more about what their sickness is all about, and information spreads. Imagine if we all just came out and said it and allowed people to be concerned and outraged? Information would spread and go viral (pun intended).

Meh... I know I’ll eventually tell her, and more people, but I just need to make sure I am completely confident with it.

I wouldn't keep the fact from a best friend.I would keep the fact from an employer, but I can see that in certain individual circumstances disclosure seems a manageable option.Its true that the "gal or guy with aids" could be a crappy "label" to put up with socially, but also the more people who live a "normal life" and are known to be HIV+, the more we'll hear about "that cool guy that cool lady - you'd never know he's HIV+ would you?" cause the pozzie is getting on fine enough. I think about this when I ski high altitude or don't miss a day of work in a year or my ID doc says I dont see anything at all to be concerned about. HIV is in the reservoirs and in the thougths of the person but its also in the collective thoughts of a society and its encouraging that the collective "idea" of HIV does evolve over the years, slowly but surely.

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“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

I haven't told anyone except of course my husband knows and my drs and various other medical people. I meant to but at first it was a case of needing to deal with my own feelings. Then time just ran away with me and it didnt become the huge issue that I felt it was at the start. Dont get me wrong of course living with HIV is not easy but I just couldnt find a way.

I am a born worrier and my reasons for not disclosing are selfish. I do not want to feel constantly worried if the person I have told is ok or worrying about me or to second guess thier behaviour. My family would be supportive but I would worry about them. My sisters would constantly check I was ok which nice as that is can be exaghsting.

I dont feel the need to discuss it, I find support in other places. It certainly isnt everyones buisiness.

Hats off to those of you who are able and willing to talk openly but Its just not for me. Not so far, maybe one day I will change my mind.It is all down to personal choice and what you feel confortable with .

tonite i m a bit drunk. so not sure if it's the right time to post. but my tv doesn't work (fuse?) and i have time to spend somewhere else.i m about to lost my parents (both have serious health problems non hiv related, "just" aging), and have fill my paper to divorce my pretty but unfaithful wife who felt hiv is scary.true story. no labs since almost a year, but took my pills every single days.i'm not looking for any compassion despite lot of you are compassionate. i'm about to be the last of my family, with no kids. somehow, the tree might end with me.so why should i care sharing my status ? not sure. can't be worst. or it can by losing my job if disclosing. but then, where is my honor?i might disclose to anyone that should know. fuck rejection. you wrong. but why disclose? no answers. maybe because i'm proud of me, and people have to understand life have risks and some of us are less lucky than others. nothing more, nothing less. i don't care about my responsibility getting hiv. love was the reason, followed by stupidity. but still, i'm in great shape, no complains.not sure i will read replies, so don't reply. thanks.not sure neither i will get the balls to disclose. maybe not i can say. maybe to parent, before they go.the good thing disclosing is that you end up surrounded by people that really care for you. why bother being surrounded by others ?excepting at work, if you aren't born with a gold spoon in your mouth i would say. my case.but hey, lets finish this post with a positive thought. i'm a strong man. i won't give up on life, love and happiness. and i still have lot of things to achieve, and i believe that love will come again sooner or later.sorry for this post. i might delete it if anyone feel offended by it.

tonite i m a bit drunk. so not sure if it's the right time to post. but my tv doesn't work (fuse?) and i have time to spend somewhere else.i m about to lost my parents (both have serious health problems non hiv related, "just" aging), and have fill my paper to divorce my pretty but unfaithful wife who felt hiv is scary.true story. no labs since almost a year, but took my pills every single days.i'm not looking for any compassion despite lot of you are compassionate. i'm about to be the last of my family, with no kids. somehow, the tree might end with me.so why should i care sharing my status ? not sure. can't be worst. or it can by losing my job if disclosing. but then, where is my honor?i might disclose to anyone that should know. fuck rejection. you wrong. but why disclose? no answers. maybe because i'm proud of me, and people have to understand life have risks and some of us are less lucky than others. nothing more, nothing less. i don't care about my responsibility getting hiv. love was the reason, followed by stupidity. but still, i'm in great shape, no complains.not sure i will read replies, so don't reply. thanks.not sure neither i will get the balls to disclose. maybe not i can say. maybe to parent, before they go.the good thing disclosing is that you end up surrounded by people that really care for you. why bother being surrounded by others ?excepting at work, if you aren't born with a gold spoon in your mouth i would say. my case.but hey, lets finish this post with a positive thought. i'm a strong man. i won't give up on life, love and happiness. and i still have lot of things to achieve, and i believe that love will come again sooner or later.sorry for this post. i might delete it if anyone feel offended by it.

but hey, lets finish this post with a positive thought. i'm a strong man. i won't give up on life, love and happiness. and i still have lot of things to achieve, and i believe that love will come again sooner or later.

nothing to be ashamed of in all that, John. living a life with HIV nearly always includes dealing with some depression too. but you work it out - and sublimate what you have to (LOL). I think it's a sign of healthy depression to list the bad, unanswerable stuff as along as you can conclude with some positive reasons for living too.

nothing to be ashamed of in all that, John. living a life with HIV nearly always includes dealing with some depression too. but you work it out - and sublimate what you have to (LOL). I think it's a sign of healthy depression to list the bad, unanswerable stuff as along as you can conclude with some positive reasons for living too.

To suggest that any form of depression could be healthy, means you have no concept regarding the disease of depression. Depression is a real live disease and does not mean you are having a bad day.

John, I suggest that you do not concern yourself with what others would do and instead decide on what you need and then take it from there. As much as I hate the stigma of HIV, I believe that disclosure of your status should be something you want and need to do and that is how you pick the people that you tell. If you believe that telling certain people would be beneficial to you, then that is what you should do. What I suggest you do not do, is to pre-judge anyone or their reaction, because you must have faith in their ability to deal with the news, otherwise you would not be telling them.

Friends and family can provide incredible support and to me, the closer you are to someone, the quicker you should tell them. My reason for this is simple. How would you feel, if your best friend or close family member, had a major life crisis and chose not to tell you? How would that make you feel? Because that is just how others will feel, when you do tell them, so be prepared for some possible anger, at you, for waiting to tell them. But given what you describe, I think you will tell a few close people and I suggest that you not tell anyone at work and just work on your personal life.

Everyone I have ever told, including work, has been nothing but supportive, but I disclosed over a long time period, so take your time and do what feels right for you. Trust what your heart tells you and the other will take care of itself.

To suggest that any form of depression could be healthy, means you have no concept regarding the disease of depression. Depression is a real live disease and does not mean you are having a bad day. To suggest otherwise is both insulting and insensitive.

dude, once again you're insulting MY experiences. Dealing with the AIDS and the dead lovers, I understand and suffer with depression. There's no way to f-ing escape it. You can deal with it in a healthy way (with drugs, counseling and/or dealing with the issues) and get on with your life with occasional dips or you can let it drive you insane and suffer serious issues. It's difficult, but not impossible, to to live a healthy mental life even with depression. Most people do. Although you'll still have times/bouts of sadness/depression, you keep a positive attitude and struggle through the rest of your life.

You and I have discussed numerous times how we do not agree - on nearly anything it seems - so I don't know why you bother to constantly attack me and my experiences. Just because you handle your life in a different way does not make the way I handle mine wrong.

Obviously to me, John, by discussing his issues, yet keeping up a positive attitude, seems to be dealing with his depression in a proper way.

John, I suggest that you do not concern yourself with what others would do and instead decide on what you need and then take it from there. As much as I hate the stigma of HIV, I believe that disclosure of your status should be something you want and need to do and that is how you pick the people that you tell.

and just what are you saying here? are you reading the hypocrisy you're typing? Don't listen to Michael cause his experiences don't count because I say so; but listen to MY experiences because they are the ones that are right. Get off your high horse!

As I have said before, I told everyone that I had the AIDS cause I was probably about to die of it in the mid 90s and I didn't have any choice. I also was lucky and didn't have any bad ramifications from my employers, friends, or family either - even the young nieces and nephews. Sure it doesn't happen that way for every one; but it can and does happen for lots of people and can't just be discounted just because your experience was different. Tell your story and quit pissing on mine.

dude, once again you're insulting MY experiences. Dealing with the AIDS and the dead lovers, I understand and suffer with depression. There's no way to f-ing escape it. You can deal with it in a healthy way (with drugs, counseling and/or dealing with the issues) and get on with your life with occasional dips or you can let it drive you insane and suffer serious issues. It's difficult, but not impossible, to to live a healthy mental life even with depression. Most people do. Although you'll still have times/bouts of sadness/depression, you keep a positive attitude and struggle through the rest of your life.

You and I have discussed numerous times how we do not agree - on nearly anything it seems - so I don't know why you bother to constantly attack me and my experiences. Just because you handle your life in a different way does not make the way I handle mine wrong.

Obviously to me, John, by discussing his issues, yet keeping up a positive attitude, seems to be dealing with his depression in a proper way.and just what are you saying here? are you reading the hypocrisy you're typing? Don't listen to Michael cause his experiences don't count because I say so; but listen to MY experiences because they are the ones that are right. Get off your high horse!

As I have said before, I told everyone that I had the AIDS cause I was probably about to die of it in the mid 90s and I didn't have any choice. I also was lucky and didn't have any bad ramifications from my employers, friends, or family either - even the young nieces and nephews. Sure it doesn't happen that way for every one; but it can and does happen for lots of people and can't just be discounted just because your experience was different. Tell your story and quit pissing on mine.

Listen up Mikey and pay attention. I am done with you attacking me for posting and deciding on what my words mean, as opposed to just reading them. I never pisssed on your story, nor did I suggest that any other posters experience was not valid. Instead, I stated my OPINION on what I suggest that John do. You may notice that none of the other posters decided to attack me, ONLY YOU and why is that? I can tell you why, because we had ONE DISAGREEMENT, last October, for which I APOLOGIZED REPEATEDLY AND PROFUSELY, but nothing would placate you.

So you have decided that my mission in life is to now piss all over you (your words not mine). That is your problem, so stop trying to make it mine.

If you disagree with what I ACTUALLY WRITE, then say so, BUT STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH. You were the one who mentioned "healthy depression" and I commented on that description and NOTHING MORE. I made no reference to any of your experiences or your life story, SIMPLY YOUR POOR CHOICE OF WORDS. So get a grip and start acting like an adult.

John, sorry you are having a rough go of it. I had no idea so I apologize for some comments I made in another thread. I have nothing to add to your disclosure issue that has not been said already. It is a personal choice and when done is not something that can be taken back.

Do what you feel is best. I never feel an obligation to disclose unless it's for my own personal gain.

In severe depression sufferers will probably not function with any degree of reliability, some of the common symptoms of severe depression are as follows:

Considerable distress or agitation, and anxiety, loss of self-esteem, feeling useless and guilty, The lack of any desire to talk to others or to look after themselves, they may show a great deal of restlessness and general agitation, but will not do anything constructive, in some cases the feelings of being worthless and disgusted with themselves may lead sufferers to 'hear voices'.

They may even experience suicidal thought, people in this state are unable to lead any kind of normal life.

I don't see anything here that suggest depression can be "healthy"..do you?

I was upset and miserable when I got my diagnosis, I cried for months when I lost my parents and when I lost my great granson two years ago, I couldn't eat or sleep, but I wasn't going through a "healthy depression"..I was simply grieving....and that's healthy.

I'm with you on this one Joe...and John I'm sorry you are going through this but in the end only you can decide who you dsclose to and when...and if you feel you need to talk this through with someone then see a specialist.

Hey Joe: I know you and a few others, thought I jumped on you when your comments didn't seem all that bad; but they don't know of the issue between you and me that started a few months ago. While you may think it's all that long ago and all water under the bridge, your prior comments were very hurtful towards me, and so now every comment you post towards me I view with a very critical eye.

I would suggest that we both follow your request in our last PM exchange before you blocked me. If I'm not going to comment on any of your posts, I suggest it's only fair that you don't comment on any of my posts either. I believe that doing things that way, we'll probably both be better off. I hope that by not "speaking" with, to, or about one another anymore, that can be the end of that. Thank you.

Hey John: just like I apologized to you privately last night, I wanted to publically say I'm sorry for this spat in the middle of your thread. It's been good chatting with you and I'll just stick to chatting with you via PM.

I would suggest that we both follow your request in our last PM exchange before you blocked me. If I'm not going to comment on any of your posts, I suggest it's only fair that you don't comment on any of my posts either. I believe that doing things that way, we'll probably both be better off. I hope that by not "speaking" with, to, or about one another anymore, that can be the end of that. Thank you.

You might want to start by not sending forum members PM's complaining about Joe.

Hey Joe: I know you and a few others, thought I jumped on you when your comments didn't seem all that bad; but they don't know of the issue between you and me that started a few months ago. While you may think it's all that long ago and all water under the bridge, your prior comments were very hurtful towards me, and so now every comment you post towards me I view with a very critical eye.

I would suggest that we both follow your request in our last PM exchange before you blocked me. If I'm not going to comment on any of your posts, I suggest it's only fair that you don't comment on any of my posts either. I believe that doing things that way, we'll probably both be better off. I hope that by not "speaking" with, to, or about one another anymore, that can be the end of that. Thank you.

Hey John: just like I apologized to you privately last night, I wanted to publically say I'm sorry for this spat in the middle of your thread. It's been good chatting with you and I'll just stick to chatting with you via PM.

And you had to put this in a post for all to see - why did you feel the need to do that? you couldn't just ignore it could you...oh, and the apology to John at the end doesn't make things right.

And you had to put this in a post for all to see - why did you feel the need to do that? you couldn't just ignore it could you...oh, and the apology to John at the end doesn't make things right.

Jan

because people like you keeping attacking me publically in these forums, while having my PMs blocked, so there's no way to discuss any of this in private. I refuse to be the bad guy here. Why should I ignore the personal attacks and look like a patsy. If someone has different advice to give John, feel free to give it. But that doesn't mean that anyone should be able to diss my advice, without expecting me to respond.

If you don't believe in anything like "healthy depression" then that's fine. I however, still living, dealing with life, and yet still grieving some 14 years after the death of my first partner, understand having "healthy depression". It means that sometimes I can't help but be sad and cry about things (just passed what would have been the anniversaries with both my partners - 25 yr on Dec 18 with Randy, and 11 yrs on Jan 15 with Jim); while the rest of the time, no the majority of the time, I have to have a positive attitude about where my life is now and how it's moving forward.

Lots of people deal with their depression in a healthy way. It's not that difficult of a concept to understand. In this thread John spoke of some of his issues and the depression, and still had that healthy positive attitude of continuing on. Yet you posted some diatribe about people being so depressed as to being suicidal. Personally, John doesn't strike me as being that depressed at all; instead he sounds like he was just looking for a little support (which you sure weren't giving with your ramble about extreme depression) to get through a tough spot.

What's difficult to understand is why other people here constantly stay so bitchy towards me, instead of just leaving me alone, like I do to y'all. besides that, can't any of you people, you know you members of the "cabal" that hates me LOL, handle things for yourself? I guess not. Anytime I respond to one of y'all when in the middle of a disagreement, out come the rest of you. Where pray tell is your dog in this discussion? Or Dachs for that matter? All of y'all constantly bicker, nitpick, and harass me. You're just a bunch of bullies.

If you don't like the things I post in these threads, put me on ignore (like you do the PMs), don't comment on my posts, or don't confront me. It's that easy.

What's difficult to understand is why other people here constantly stay so bitchy towards me, instead of just leaving me alone, like I do to y'all. besides that, can't any of you people, you know you members of the "cabal" that hates me LOL, handle things for yourself? I guess not. Anytime I respond to one of y'all when in the middle of a disagreement, out come the rest of you. Where pray tell is your dog in this discussion? Or Dachs for that matter? All of y'all constantly bicker, nitpick, and harass me. You're just a bunch of bullies.

The evil Cabal is at it again. Tsk, tsk.

Michael, you are taking things far too personally. This thread was about John and you have managed to make it all about you. Some times it may be better to just leave some things alone. Last time I checked that does not make anyone a "patsy". Responding to those whom you dislike so much does not necessarily put you in a great light. An no, I am not attacking you (in case you think I am) or anybody else. It just gets old after a while.

Logged

"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

because people like you keeping attacking me publically in these forums, while having my PMs blocked, so there's no way to discuss any of this in private. I refuse to be the bad guy here.

remove extraneous shit

If you don't like the things I post in these threads, put me on ignore (like you do the PMs), don't comment on my posts, or don't confront me. It's that easy.

Discuss in private? Well this is just too fucking cute. Your abuse of the PM system around here is notorious. You whine constantly about being bullied, yet all the while sending folks who disagree with you unsolicited toxic missives, presumably because you think the Goderators can't see what you get up to.

But don't worry, a lot of the people you've harassed and monstered with your odious poison pen letters have shared them with others. Your nasty private side is not the well kept secret you seem to think it is.

Christ help you if you ever decide to try your crap on with me via PM.

And before you or (any of your ever shrinking circle of supporters) tries to point the bone at Matty the Damned for his sharp tongue, remember that I have the won tons to do it in public.

I think it's a sign of healthy depression to list the bad, unanswerable stuff as along as you can conclude with some positive reasons for living too. cheers!

Quote

Lots of people deal with their depression in a healthy way

Mikie:I think the issue here arose from using the terminology "healthy depression." Depression is not healthy. There are times and circumstances in life when we all go through it and some people even have clinical depression - however, depression is not healthy.

Now, when you said in a later post that there are healthy ways to deal with depression - that is more accurate.

So, I think that others are correct when they say that depression is not healthy - it can, in fact, be deadly.

You have found healthy ways to deal with depression and depressive circumstance/times in your life. I really think that is was the original phrasing in your post that may have sparked some of the responses that followed, when it was probably (I hope) your intent to say that there are healthy ways to deal with it.

Responding to those whom you dislike so much does not necessarily put you in a great light.

no, no. this is the "cabal that doesn't like me" LOL This is a subset of the regular Evil Cabal. (that's right Matty, you pile on too. Now there's one only left in what I consider the "cabal that doesn't like me" that we haven't heard from. LOL)

and it's not me that dislikes them but vice versa. That's what I was trying to point out. I do not comment on these people's posts until they provoke with their negative comments. And sure, a lot of the kind people that chat with me tell me to just let these incidents lie; but damn it, that's part of what that whole bullying thread was about. Plenty of people have been run off from here by putting up with the rudeness of other members who constantly provoke and berate. A lot of the people whom I have PMed back and forth to about these issues have left because of the bullying that exists here. I refuse to sit idly back when that happens to me. I don't think it's too much to confront them and suggest that they not talk to me or about my posts.

and it's not me that dislikes them but vice versa. That's what I was trying to point out. I do not comment on these people's posts until they provoke with their negative comments. And sure, a lot of the kind people that chat with me tell me to just let these incidents lie; but damn it, that's part of what that whole bullying thread was about. Plenty of people have been run off from here by putting up with the rudeness of other members who constantly provoke and berate. A lot of the people whom I have PMed back and forth to about these issues have left because of the bullying that exists here. I refuse to sit idly back when that happens to me. I don't think it's too much to confront them and suggest that they not talk to me or about my posts.

All I can say to this is that Mikey is ever so lucky that posting PMs publicly is frowned upon by the Goderators. Then we'd really see who does the bullying, provoking and berating.

I think the issue here arose from using the terminology "healthy depression." Depression is not healthy. There are times and circumstances in life when we all go through it and some people even have clinical depression - however, depression is not healthy.

I don't know anyone these days, especially my poz friends, who don't live with some depression all the time. It's just become a staple of American life in general I think. Since depression can't magically be made to vanish, it just stands to reason that we learn to live with depression. Plenty of psychologists will say that some depression is actually healthy as it allows you to grieve your losses and find a way to put those losses into a healthy perspective in your life. Since we're living with depression all the time then, it only seems logicaly to refer to this underlying, manageable depression as "healthy depression" rather than "extreme depression" or "clinical depression".

Since we're living with depression all the time then, it only seems logicaly to refer to this underlying, manageable depression as "healthy depression" rather than "extreme depression" or "clinical depression".

I have to majorly disagree with you there ..... there is no logic in saying that living with depression all the time and it being manageable makes it "healthy depression." In that case, living with HIV all the time and it being manageable makes it "healthy HIV" or as more people become victims of violence and we live with it all the time than there is "healthy violence."

Doesn't pass the test. After numerious searches on google, etc. not seeing too many, if any, references to healthy depression. There are healthy responses to depression - one is the grieving process in response to loss. This is how people deal with depression - that does not make it "healthy depression." There is also manageable depression - i.e. using various coping mechanisms, getting professional help, support, medicine, and there is clinical depression. Not seeing or buying the "healthy depression." phrasing. Thought you would see this as an opportunity to clarify your post/intent, but to each his own. I just can't agree with you on this point.

No idea of the history of this particular argument, but I can't help feeling that when a group of posters gather round one person to have a go at their posts, that it could be construed as being a bit bullying.

I am sure you feel justified in having a go, but for the rest of us out there, it feels a bit toxic.