Middle Eastern Resturant coming to Front St

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Word on the street is that there will be a new Middle Eastern restaurant in the buildings at Front and Norris. Same place that was Bada Bingo a while back. There has been a significant amount of construction going on so it's most likely true. I'm excited!

Please let it not be near total darkness inside with wall to wall carpeting and floor rugs on the walls (like a certain Iraqi-owned place in Old City which I love, but the decor makes me feel I'm gonna get knifed any second).

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Hey Kenseau/FNA Zoning, did/does this space need any variances or can it operate under current classification? Before I get excited about this, just want to make sure its on the up and up. This address appears to be on the border of 3 civics, so there are a lot of stakeholders here.

Hey Kenseau/FNA Zoning, did/does this space need any variances or can it operate under current classification? Before I get excited about this, just want to make sure its on the up and up. This address appears to be on the border of 3 civics, so there are a lot of stakeholders here.

The zoning is L4, and given its definition I think the owner has pretty wide leeway in whatever they want to do with it since there's quite a number of broad uses that can go into L4 property.

Use Restrictions: Distribution uses, light manufacturing, performance standards, all materials must be made off-site.

It looks like the "Commercial District" restriction applies because all the lots in front of this building are zoned C2, so this would be considered a commercial district. So I don't really think this building needs to go before zoning (any other expert wanna chime in?).

Now if it's not gonna be a restaurant but a club, the zoning forbids that. Also the property owner cannot put in a apartments on the 2nd floor. L-4 doesn't allow for that. So if he keeps it to the restaurant I think he can do this all by right.

BTW a lot of the interior re-work is done already. I've been seeing guys coming in and out of this place for months.

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What lot combination? The parcel as per the zoning map stretches all the way to Norris St.

If he's gonna be doing take-out delivery from this place he would need a take-out and since this place is in both FNA and EKNA they would need to hold a joint meeting b/c L&I will issue a refusal on take-outs in L-4.

The applicant should put the permits in, if any of them get refused, put himself on the ZBA calendar for the variances, state the intended use and then approach FNA/EKNA.

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That's not a lot recombination it looks like, it's a reconfiguration of the interior [zoning categories and use permits require interior space restrictions/definitions for certain uses].

I just looked at the zoning placard now, too. Yes the take-out most definitely needs a variance meeting.

What's the neighborhood interest though in rejection---zero? That whole area across the street is practically vacant and the closest house I think is far away to not be able to smell the kitchen.

Thanks for doing some leg work guys. While there may not be any appreciable concern with granting the variance, I havent seen this address come up in any Zoning emails. I could have missed it though.

I just sent an email to Zoning to bring their attention to this. If their ZBA hearing is still scheduled for January 6, then zoning will likely request a continuance so we can get the owner in front of the civics.

That's not a lot recombination it looks like, it's a reconfiguration of the interior [zoning categories and use permits require interior space restrictions/definitions for certain uses].

I just looked at the zoning placard now, too. Yes the take-out most definitely needs a variance meeting.

What's the neighborhood interest though in rejection---zero? That whole area across the street is practically vacant and the closest house I think is far away to not be able to smell the kitchen.

Thanks for doing some leg work guys. While there may not be any appreciable concern with granting the variance, I havent seen this address come up in any Zoning emails. I could have missed it though.

I just sent an email to Zoning to bring their attention to this. If their ZBA hearing is still scheduled for January 6, then zoning will likely request a continuance so we can get the owner in front of the civics.

Wow you guys go to all that trouble? In ORCA if nobody cares, then nobody does anything.. the applicant just goes to the ZBA and says "nobody cared" if the ZBA asks for input; usually they get the variance and it's a lightening fast meeting; the ZBA commissioners can argue semantics about the use permits with the applicant's attorney.

Right now in ORCA there's a tag shop nobody cares about that approached, but I haven't heard back from the realtor after he was instructed to put the applicant on the calendar. Might be some movement after the holidays are over, it would be nice to see a business in that building so it's not vacant anymore.

Since the restaurant is on the calendar already you should see the applicant's name there and Google around for his phone.

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My brother is so mad about this. He came storming in the house talking about "USA! USA!" He seems to think that the Bada Bingo is sacred ground because our Uncle Pat used to go there all the time, and he died on 9/11... 1998. Of a heart attack. Not at Bada Bingo. Can antibiotics make you crazy?
He wants to do a remake of that "No Mosque at Ground Zero" song, but he has no musical talent. He can only play "Hot Cross Buns" on the recorder. He's trying to get my oldest son to help because he's pretty good on keyboard and he used to sing in choir. I'm only allowing it because my son needs work. Anyway, long story short, I hope they're hiring because my son needs to get out of this house.

hopefully the place will bring some legit activity to front st and make the walk home from Berks feel a bit less desolate. The 2nd part of the article makes me nuts why Norris Sq is insistent on seeing the demolition every historic structure in their area when they have tons of vacant land is beyond me.

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Empty factories to the east and all our waste
The shape of things that came shows on the broken workers face

hopefully the place will bring some legit activity to front st and make the walk home from Berks feel a bit less desolate. The 2nd part of the article makes me nuts why Norris Sq is insistent on seeing the demolition every historic structure in their area when they have tons of vacant land is beyond me.

The more I have seen Norris Square operate, the more I question their existence. I don't want to get too deep into civic association politics, but I have VERY deep reservations about what Norris Square is doing.

I just do not believe it is ethical for a civic association to also be a property development company. It's morally and ethically bankrupt. You CANNOT be the same entity and NOT turn evil.

Think about it. A civic association is the primary voice at ZBA hearings that decide the fate of zoning variances. If the civic is also owning lots of properties within its realm, guess who's zoning variances requests are ALWAYS going to pass the ZBA?

So how do you think Norris Square got itself to the point where a civic association is in the middle of demolishing a historical church right now? Who can oppose it? If you're living in Norris Square and you oppose what they're doing, it's you vs. the board of the entire civic, who controls the meetings and the civic "speaks" for all the neighbors at the ZBA, so you'd have to dig into your own funds and start your own civic and then inject your own civic into every zoning issue the "developer civic" is getting itself involved in until your City Councilmember stops supporting the developer civic and starts supporting yours.

Imagine if FNA was controlled totally by Grasso. Well, Grasso could pretty much build whatever he wants wherever he wants in Fishtown, and if you have a problem with it--tough. It can turn really ugly.

Remember Ruth Arnao? She was best-buddies with Vincent Fumo forever. She used to be a one-woman civic association (Spring Garden) and was using Fumo's cash he was shaking out of his friends and public sources and she was running her own land bank that looked a lot like a real estate investment portfolio, and not a CDC or even a civic. That helped get Federal charges slapped on her.

There's two other civics in South Philly that were also 1-man shows, and when you peeled back the layers, they're basically fronts for developers, who use the "civic" as an express-lane to get ZBA petitions cleared through.

I understand why Norris Square is doing what it's doing, but you hinted at where things can go wrong lighterthief, and I think their new scorched-earth development plan is depressing.

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A kenzo friend of mine hinted at what they're doing... this is total conjecture, but he suspects deep down they want to erase any trace that the area within their civic had Irish Catholic roots and want to remake their area of Kensington into their own image.

I'm inclined to agree. They have huge lots they can build on, but they would rather knock down institutional buildings and things with historical value than do any in-fill development. That can have consequences far into the future when the stuff they are building now ages.

I don't think the new houses they are putting up are gonna age well.

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A kenzo friend of mine hinted at what they're doing... this is total conjecture, but he suspects deep down they want to erase any trace that the area within their civic had Irish Catholic roots and want to remake their area of Kensington into their own image.

I'm inclined to agree. They have huge lots they can build on, but they would rather knock down institutional buildings and things with historical value than do any in-fill development. That can have consequences far into the future when the stuff they are building now ages.

I don't think the new houses they are putting up are gonna age well.

Thats kinda what I meant by "no sense of history"...because its not the present citizens history. There is no one left who would remember anything prior to the early 60's.

Think about it. A civic association is the primary voice at ZBA hearings that decide the fate of zoning variances. If the civic is also owning lots of properties within its realm, guess who's zoning variances requests are ALWAYS going to pass the ZBA?

I remember reading that the new Zoning Code inserts civics directly into the development process (i.e. you are required to speak before a civic to get a ZBA hearing) and streamlines this by actually accepting and approving civics for certain geographical areas. Anyone know more details about this? Are there any limits on who can and cannot be a civic?

Think about it. A civic association is the primary voice at ZBA hearings that decide the fate of zoning variances. If the civic is also owning lots of properties within its realm, guess who's zoning variances requests are ALWAYS going to pass the ZBA?

I remember reading that the new Zoning Code inserts civics directly into the development process (i.e. you are required to speak before a civic to get a ZBA hearing) and streamlines this by actually accepting and approving civics for certain geographical areas. Anyone know more details about this? Are there any limits on who can and cannot be a civic?

I haven't yet printed out the finalized ZCC stuff cuz it's not all online yet last time I looked but I plan to. Anybody feel free to take a stab at this, but yes.. new rules were created for registered civic organizations. But there was an internal debate (read: within the board of the ZCC and City council staffers) at ZCC about how they would be treated and recognized because it could have certification/reporting and governance consequences with the City that the City would rather not mess with. Obviously that debate was resolved.

Personally I don't believe the new code puts any limitations on "developer civics". The areas where developer civics exist are far away from other monied interests that would create enemies (like outright developers). IOW, I don't think people like Kenny Gamble, or civics that really are rubber-stamps for favored developers are in any real way affected by the new Code.

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A kenzo friend of mine hinted at what they're doing... this is total conjecture, but he suspects deep down they want to erase any trace that the area within their civic had Irish Catholic roots and want to remake their area of Kensington into their own image.

Yes, my thoughts exactly.

they started with a different mission than most other "civics" or "CDCs" much of their desire to build a community for their own and use available funding to do it is commendable IMO but I think with a broader view they could work to build a far more rich and diverse community without abandoning their mission. The Church and Bank etc will ultimately be seen as significant losses.

I also agree that the development mission is at odds with functioning as a civic

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Empty factories to the east and all our waste
The shape of things that came shows on the broken workers face

A kenzo friend of mine hinted at what they're doing... this is total conjecture, but he suspects deep down they want to erase any trace that the area within their civic had Irish Catholic roots and want to remake their area of Kensington into their own image.

Yes, my thoughts exactly.

they started with a different mission than most other "civics" or "CDCs" much of their desire to build a community for their own and use available funding to do it is commendable IMO but I think with a broader view they could work to build a far more rich and diverse community without abandoning their mission. The Church and Bank etc will ultimately be seen as significant losses.

I also agree that the development mission is at odds with functioning as a civic

It's not like this has happened before in Philly. It starts off with a nice warm feeling, rebuilding the community, but then it goes off into the weeds over time.

Think about it for a second... a civic that is also its own private developer. It's not a CDC. The original idea behind a CDC is to use public and donation investment to create communal development and public works that raise the desirability of a neighborhood... to encourage PRIVATE developers to want to come in. Norris is focusing on its housing program; and the new homeowners are inclined to continue supporting Norris since that's where they got their house from. It seems OK for now but it's easy for this train to go off the tracks.

Because Norris Square is also a civic, its voice also speaks for the folks who don't have anything connected to the redevelopment properties. Let's say 2 years from now private developers want to play in Norris Square and do stuff there. They will hit a roadblock. Norris Square is not going to say yes to outsider developers unless they get "donations" to say yes, because private developers are competition... they will be competing for the same pool of property buyers and renters.

Let's say Norris Square hits a snag and they're squeezed for cash for some reason. That dramatically raises the pressure to keep outside developers from coming in, because that would slow down turnover on properties Norris Square owns and it would hurt their balance sheet even more (they would also be begging for funding from public sources). They would only say yes to the competitors if they got "donations" to keep the civic flush with cash and liquid so they can keep their own projects afloat.

It's a huge ethical problem in my eyes. It can also be self-defeating to the neighbors who live there.

It is possible for a civic to be involved in housing, but not one-and-the-same entity. A civic could start a housing redevelopment corp and spin it off with its own board that's elected separately and as long as the civic's board doesn't share any members with the redevelopment board that would be fine. The civic could continue to vote to inject cash into the redevelopment corp or take proceeds from the corp back into the civic. That relationship exists now between CDCs and civics that share boundaries.

There's sort-of a relationship like that now between Point Breeze and South Philly H.O.M.E.S. but if you know any of the folks who have recently moved into Point Breeze or read NakedPhilly (Ori does a lot of his projects there), there's a HUUUUUUUGGGEEE Us. vs. Them antagonism going on, and they particularly hate Ori Feinbush because he's buying up City-owned lots and developing houses to HIS characteristics by-right, and he's not attracting the kind of neighbors that the existing civic wants to see [which is why there are 2 other new civic groups in Point Breeze].

Because the old residents are black and the new ones are white, the racial undertones and antagonism is unreal. And yes, these are the same folks that want to ban 3 story houses and also ban roofdecks because they attract... gasp... white and Asian people into the neighborhood.

And at the same time this is going on, Kenny Gamble is begging for public money so he can start buying up lots in Point Breeze because he wants more disciples to worship him (so he can get more SDP contracts to turn more schools into charters that he owns).

I think what's going to happen with Norris Square is that you will see outside developers who want to do work in Kensington turn up their noses in Norris Square's area. There is a LOT of Kensington to play with and Norris doesn't control all that much space, plus there are large areas of Kensington that have no civic representation at all, so a developer can leaflet and approach residents just by knocking on their doors, get 5 or 6 of them to turn up at his ZBA meeting for his variance, and development can proceed.

There's that, and well, just about everywhere else in Kensington is affable to whatever developer turns up wanting to do something. It's up to Norris Square neighbors to decide if they want to go along with the civic's vision of what the neighborhood looks like.

The demolishing of all these historic buildings would NOT go over well on this side of Front Street.

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We recently purchased property a half block from Norris Square. There have been quite a few purchases from Caucasians in the last 2-3 years. The Berks and other warehouses are pretty much filled with hipsters (white). I think there will be a shift from primarily Hispanic to a much more diverse neighborhood over the next 5 years. The civic has no control over who buys private property. One thing I can say is that I have not felt any Old verses Newcomer attitude.

I doubt developers will show much interest, not based on the civic but the lack of vacant land. The civic has already built on what was open.

I do commend NSCA for all that they have accomplished. Few civics get even a fraction of the grant money they receive and even fewer do large scale redevelopment. While the Church may seem like a loss, they have plans to preserve and re-utilize the remaining structures. The plans also include low income senior housing, daycare, youth center and a community center.

We recently purchased property a half block from Norris Square. There have been quite a few purchases from Caucasians in the last 2-3 years. The Berks and other warehouses are pretty much filled with hipsters (white). I think there will be a shift from primarily Hispanic to a much more diverse neighborhood over the next 5 years. The civic has no control over who buys private property. One thing I can say is that I have not felt any Old verses Newcomer attitude.

I doubt developers will show much interest, not based on the civic but the lack of vacant land. The civic has already built on what was open.

I do commend NSCA for all that they have accomplished. Few civics get even a fraction of the grant money they receive and even fewer do large scale redevelopment. While the Church may seem like a loss, they have plans to preserve and re-utilize the remaining structures. The plans also include low income senior housing, daycare, youth center and a community center.

The Church isn't the only thing they've obliterated. Grated, my info is coming from an individual who has butted heads repeatedly with NSCA.

Of course Norris Sq can't control who moves into their area, it's their housing program that I've got an issue with. I'm not saying they're corrupt or they're doing anything bad; but the way it is presently organized, it's VERY EASY for it to turn south. Since not-for-profits always have the benefit of the doubt of the public; if Norris Square does start making bad decisions that defy any sort of justification, it will be a long time before the situation resolves itself.

I was walking past the place on Friday and I'm pretty sure I ran into the owner. I saw a gentleman coming out and asked when the place is opening. He said March 1st, possibly a little bit later and offered me a look inside. The place is pretty large and most of the floor space will be a grocery store. There will also be a restaurant, with most of the seating on an upstairs balcony (kinda like at Wegman's). He said traditional middle eastern food like falafel, shawarma and kebobs will be served in addition to hoagies, pizza's, etc... So there you go, looks pretty promising and the interior didn't seem to be too far off. Seems like a solid addition the the area.

That's not a lot recombination it looks like, it's a reconfiguration of the interior [zoning categories and use permits require interior space restrictions/definitions for certain uses].

I just looked at the zoning placard now, too. Yes the take-out most definitely needs a variance meeting.

What's the neighborhood interest though in rejection---zero? That whole area across the street is practically vacant and the closest house I think is far away to not be able to smell the kitchen.

Thanks for doing some leg work guys. While there may not be any appreciable concern with granting the variance, I havent seen this address come up in any Zoning emails. I could have missed it though.

I just sent an email to Zoning to bring their attention to this. If their ZBA hearing is still scheduled for January 6, then zoning will likely request a continuance so we can get the owner in front of the civics.

Wow you guys go to all that trouble? In ORCA if nobody cares, then nobody does anything.. the applicant just goes to the ZBA and says "nobody cared" if the ZBA asks for input; usually they get the variance and it's a lightening fast meeting; the ZBA commissioners can argue semantics about the use permits with the applicant's attorney.

Right now in ORCA there's a tag shop nobody cares about that approached, but I haven't heard back from the realtor after he was instructed to put the applicant on the calendar. Might be some movement after the holidays are over, it would be nice to see a business in that building so it's not vacant anymore.

Since the restaurant is on the calendar already you should see the applicant's name there and Google around for his phone.

The lengths some people go to to try and control someone else's business venture never ceases to amaze me.

The Zoning meeting is Tues joint EKNA/FNA from what I have heard I am super-excited about this joint unfortunately that night I believe I have a work meeting that I am less than excited about to say the least.
Collins... you know that all I have wanted since I moved here is a place to get food and staples between my house and the EL. The community zoning process is not about controlling somebody's business at it's best it supports good businesses and limits nuisance ones, it is not perfect but it is the only chance residents have to voice support or opposition.

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Empty factories to the east and all our waste
The shape of things that came shows on the broken workers face

The lengths some people go to to try and control someone else's business venture never ceases to amaze me.

Sorry you feel that way dude, but this isn't about control.

Ok, I'll give you that the zoning code is broken, but the neighborhood deserves to know about changes to it's fabric before they are going to happen. Thankfully, the zoning procedures in Fishtown are not arbitrary, they were developed after years of meetings and mistakes. I stand behind our process. I think it is one of the most fair and transparent out there.

The community zoning process is not about controlling somebody's business at it's best it supports good businesses and limits nuisance ones, it is not perfect but it is the only chance residents have to voice support or opposition.

The process might not be, but that is certainly how some of the residents treat it.