As a former LOTORO player I only keep a loose eye on things, but they dropped some pretty big news about a major, paid ($29.99) expansion they're releasing in fall 2008. You can read about it anywhere probably, here's a couple of links:

Among the goodies (Due in Fall 2008):-lifting level cap by 10 levels-2 new classes (Warden and Rune-Keeper)-3 new regions (Eregion, Moria and Lorien), supposedly including lots of new content-New, unique Legendary Weapons (which earn their own deeds and traits)

Enough to bring me back? Well, lets see what the MMO world looks like in the fall, and see whether Age of Conan lives up to its promise or trips on its own shoelaces.

For me, it's all about the new classes. I thought LotRO was a great game (like I do all mmo's to be honest). But I got bored quite fast mostly because I found no class to be all that exciting to play. I'll keep an eye open toward this.

Thanks for the news.

Logged

LD

"Let your enemies fear, for a harlequin of the Laughing God dances at your side."

so ive never played but clicked on the post and you two made it sound like the lord of the rings DOES NOT CURRENTLY HAVE -

eregionmorialorien ORminas tirith???

where the hell do you play? that beaten up old town no ones ever heard of and the berry patch of bilbo baggins second uncle, twice removed???

Although the actual regions included in LOTRO are a small part of the Middle-Earth map, it is quite large in-game. It gives them plenty of room to add areas in expansions like this. I'm sure there's a map of it online somewhere...

I haven't jumped into this MMO yet, but news that Lorien and Moria will be added soon has certainly piqued my interest. A Rune-keeper class sounds intersting, but I can't imagine what such a character's abilities would be. In fact, I can't recall any such character from any of Tolkien's literary works.

For me, it's all about the new classes. I thought LotRO was a great game (like I do all mmo's to be honest). But I got bored quite fast mostly because I found no class to be all that exciting to play. I'll keep an eye open toward this.

Thanks for the news.

I feel the exact same way. I know there are no 'mages' in the lore but the lack of them made groups less dynamic imo. Just from the names of the 2 new classes it sounds like they are figuring them in some how.

Since I gave up on LOTORO after feeling my couple of 45 characters had run out of fun things I could do, there's some promise here:

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"Most of Moria is high-level. We’re introducing levels 50-60 in the expansion, so you’ll be in the 45-60 range in Moria, mostly. There are places around Moria, in Eregion that you’ll be able to go to at lower levels but there’s a lot of content that you’ll want to be with other folks in.

However, over the last year we’ve learned that you need alternate types of content, so we’re gonna have large, group encounter-type things that you would expect in a place like Moria, but we’re also gonna have small, two or three-person instance encounters that we found people really love. In fact in other MMOs that’s where players have migrated when they’re not doing the big raids to get the big loot.

Continuing the motif that we’ve had shortly after launch, we’ll make sure there’s solo material everywhere, especially when it comes to the epic story, so that you can encounter some of the epic story in the cool moments in LOTRO."

And this quote is almost a dig at AoC (which I enjoy, but I'm not naive about):

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"We’re the next-gen MMO, we’re highly polished, high-quality, triple-A, not broken… it sounds trite, but people ask me what I think is one of the biggest features of World Of Warcraft or Lord Of The Rings Online, and I say that it’s because we ship the games finished. Not broken. This sounds like it’s not a big deal, but it is because of the scope and scale and complexity of these games

While it's basically true, if you go back in Turbine's forums to the months after launch, you'll see a lot of the same screeching and anger about balancing issues and problems that you see after every MMO launch along with the reams of "I've had enough of this crap! I'm going back to WoW!" posts, and devs occasionally getting bent out of shape about players' accusations, complaints and such.

And don't get me started about the instance where Legolas (NPC) runs around and aggros every single damn enemy on the entire map.

But definitely overall LOTORO was one of the smoother MMO launch experiences I ever had, and I'd like to re-visit but probably not until the expansion releases.

For me, LOTORO grows in esteem in my memory the more I run into things (UI, interface, chat and chat channels, LFG mechanisms, grouping, etc.) in AoC that Turbine handled in much (imho) smarter, easier-to-use/understand fashion.

And there are things (such as the player created music and concerts, and events) that really stand out, that I do miss. I think once I hit the AoC level cap with my main character, I might be open to re-visiting even if the expansion's not out yet.

I just played my level 40 hunter today after 2 months away (AoC and a re-kindled interest in EQ2). He really seemed to be unable to hold his own against monsters I'm sure he had no trouble with before. I don't think it was just being rusty, either. I played for several hours and just felt really underpowered.

In case anyone's interested (I know Warhammer is blotting out the sun at this point as the MMO Du Jour ), they started accepting beta apps for the Mines of Moria retail expansion. It's so funny - I don't remember starting this thread at all! Thank God for the forum search function.

We're pleased to announce that the Mines of Moria™ expansion is now in the final stages of Beta, and that we are now accepting applications for the Beta Program! The Beta Program is by invitation only, and we'll be adding more and more of you as the Program advances. We wanted to give our community the chance to get in and apply to participate in the Program before the general announcement hits on Friday, August 29!

Frankly, the mouse-clicking hoops they require through the Moria site seem a little excessive, but it's just me. I mean, "Click on the fifth star, the one that is pulsing, to open the Beta application form"? Bizzare.

* Speak Friend, and Enter - Moria, called Khazad-dûm by the dwarves, was their capital and the grandest of cities. This enormous underground cavern in north-western Middle-earth, comprises an immense network of tunnels, chambers, mines and huge halls that run beneath and ultimately through the Misty Mountains. For the first time, players of The Lord of the Rings Online will enter this ancient city which has served as the foundation for the modern-day dungeon-crawling adventures to battle the hordes of goblins and the Nameless of the Deep and journey through hundreds of new quests within six new kinds of stunning environments.

* The Epic Continues! - The Mines of Moria represents the beginning of Volume II of The Lord of the Rings Online. Players can experience six new books as part of this update and participate in the release of Durin's Bane, battle the Watcher, aid Galadriel and more!

* Increased Level Cap - Players will be able advance their characters up to level 60, gaining access to new traits, virtues, skills and class quests. The crafting system will also expand, giving players the ability to craft even more powerful items.

* Discover Two New Classes - The Rune-keeper and the Warden, the first new classes to be introduced since the launch of the game, allow players to build exciting and powerful new characters in The Lord of the Rings Online in diverse new ways.

* Forge Legendary Items - The Mines of Moria will introduce Turbine's new item advancement system to The Lord of the Rings Online. Players will be able to forge weapons and class-related equipment and evolve them to build a legacy the likes of Bilbo's Sting and Gandalf's Glamdring. These legendary weapons will level-up along with the player, allowing customization by advancing the item's virtues, adding runic legacies, modifying its titles and forming fables.

I mentioned in the main LOTRO thread I recently re-subscribed, after a building sense of dismay with Funcom's "chewing gum and bailing wire" approaching to trying to "fix" AoC and add some sense of polish.

While I still find AoC very visceral and fun, I got really tired of fighting the interface, fighting frustration with certain strange things (like dying from 5 feet falls), all the bugs and stuff everyone's had to deal with etc. I don't find LOTRO fun in quite the same way, but it's like getting out of an abusive relationship and returning to someone where you didn't feel punished all the time.

Anyway, I'll see if I can get into Moria's beta app program, assuming I can figure out the gimmicky site and this weird signup process.

For some reason I am excited for Mines of Moria, but I haven't even explored half of the content in the game as it stands. I applied to the beta anyway. I still have a subscription to LOTRO but haven't been playing lately.

Once my new computer arrives I will reinstall it so I can play it with DX10 and high res textures. With my current machine I've been getting corrupted textures and occasional lockups when I play so I quit playing before it just outright died.

Yup. Both are pretty advanced classes and not recommended to newbies. Here's what I know so far:

Warden

Available to races: Man, Hobbit, Elf.Favored weapons: Spear or javelin in combination with a shield.Max armor: Medium.Role: Tank.

The warden is a quick and agile tank relying more on not being hit than on taking massive amounts of damage. The class is centered around a combo system. Each skill has an associated color (red, yellow, green, blue), and using a skill adds its color to the combo bar. By adding colors in a pattern matching a combo, that combo is pulled off and its effects applied. The warden thus has to plan ahead in combat, and pulling off his most powerful skills can take upwards of 10 seconds. Since many combos share the same initial steps, you can start working on one, chance your mind, and finish with another without losing a beat.

Rune-keepers are the first magic-wielding class in the game. They supposedly wield runes in order to achieve the effects they want in combat. They have an attunement meter on the screen that they have to pay careful attention to. This meter ranges from healing on one side, to nuking on the other. By using a healing skill, you become more attuned to the healing side of the class, and vice-versa. The most powerful healing skills can only be pulled off once the bar is past a certain point on the healing side, and the opposite is true for nuking. When out of combat, your attunement slowly balances itself again.

If you use a lot of nuking skills, you'll find that new, more powerful nukes become available to you during the battle, while healing skills are locked and unavailable. In addition, nukes are easier to pull off, and vice-versa for heals. The rune-keeper can attempt to carefully balance his skills so that he can do both healing and nuking at once, but he's probably better off by focusing on one side over the other. He can change which side to focus on from battle to battle, but during a single battle, it's hard for him to change his focus.

Just being a wuss, but in case you'd rather not know some of the stuff to be experienced there...

Spoiler for Hiden:

Many people think that this new expansion will only be the underground area of Moria, and nothing else, but there's just so much more. You will begin in Eregion, where you left off in Book 14, and eventually leave the mines to explore Lothlorien on the other side, including Galadriel's garden and well. This is where you will meet up with The Fellowship once again.

There will be ten new areas of Eregion, nine of which will be accessible to anyone. The final area will be the trip to the actual Hollin Gate itself, which will only be available to those with the expansion. At this point you will fight the Watcher in the Water, but you won't get very far with him. While mending your wounds, the Dwarves will let you know that you'll need some more powerful weapons to defeat it, which brings us to the Legendary Items.

Many people think that this new expansion will only be the underground area of Moria, and nothing else, but there's just so much more. You will begin in Eregion, where you left off in Book 14, and eventually leave the mines to explore Lothlorien on the other side, including Galadriel's garden and well. This is where you will meet up with The Fellowship once again.

There will be ten new areas of Eregion, nine of which will be accessible to anyone. The final area will be the trip to the actual Hollin Gate itself, which will only be available to those with the expansion. At this point you will fight the Watcher in the Water, but you won't get very far with him. While mending your wounds, the Dwarves will let you know that you'll need some more powerful weapons to defeat it, which brings us to the Legendary Items.

It's basically a layered system which introduces many new features, but also works retroactively to enhance existing items. These items include anything from weapons, armor pieces, armor sets, shields, etc. They are marked as having Legendary potential, so not just any item can utilize this system.

Once you receive a Legendary item through a drop, quest reward or whatever, you will need to take it to a Forgemaster to identify it. This will reveal a set of randomly-generated modifiers, also known as runes or relics, that can be enhanced or removed to place onto other Legendary items. These relics are kept in an area separate from your normal inventory slots, so there's no panic about consuming even more of your precious bag space. Take note that once you deconstruct an item to remove its rune, that item will be destroyed in the process.

You will have the opportunity to work on up to six Legendary items at a time. You can possess more than six, but these workable six are the only one you can regularly upgrade and level just as you would a hireling or pet.

Yes, that's right, these Legendary items are much more than just items. They can level up, gain rank, gain XP and even grant special deeds and quests for your character throughout their lifetime. This opens up a whole new realm of possibilities for end-game adventuring and character development.

Now, the XP you get for your items will be distributed among all six items you're working on. You can choose to turn off XP gain for a certain item that may be maxed out or you don't want to level for whatever reason. Once the XP bar is maxed out for a particular level, you'll need to reforge the item, which acts as a level-up.

Whew. I feel like I need to go back to college to grasp all that.

You can name these things, they say, but the names on each server are unique so it's one of the same name per server.=====================They also had a bit on the two new classes. Probably info has already been out there, but fwiw here's the link to that page:http://www.massively.com/2008/09/02/mines-of-moria-at-pax08-the-two-new-classes/They seem to say the two classes were developed with "soloability" in mind.

Lastly there was an interesting bit about trait enhancements:

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Trait SetsThe entire trait system will be revamped to allow the collection of traits in sets that will grant special bonuses. Once you collect all eight sets, you'll gain a legendary trait to fill one of three legendary trait slots. These trait sets help define one of three clear paths that your character can choose to follow with your "build", allowing an easier example to lead for friends who may want to advance their character in similar ways. These trait sets are class-based with three available per class.

I think most MMORPGs will attempt to copy the legendary weapon system in some way over the next two years. It's just too good of an idea to pass up.

I hope they keep going with this line of thinking. It would be especially interesting to see them do something similar with horses once we get access to Rohan. Giving your horse a name, leveling it up, giving it special abilities... It would be a lot more interesting than the way horses are dealt with in most MMORPGs today.

Neat concept. Any indication yet as to how likely it is someone will find these Legendary pieces of equipment?

There won't be any lack of potential legendary items at high levels. The items you find aren't really legendary right away though. It's like the shards of Narsil. They had to be reforged into a new sword, and several important components were added to the new sword during the progress. An epic quest line in LOTRO deals with this particular situation. You have to find a near-goddess, lower the water in lake Evendim, and then enter the ancient city of Annuminas to retrieve the gem to be used as a pommel for the reforged sword. I think the idea is to have legendary weapons in the game work in a similar way to this; You have to find potential weapons, take their best parts, forge them into a new weapon, then start adding new stuff to it, earning xp with it, and so on. Bringing out the full potential in such a weapon and making it truly legendary takes a lot of work, supposedly.

The weapons with the greatest potential for legend are very rare though. Most potential legendaries will have a lower level cap, but will be easier to level in the first place.

I am an active LOTRO player and I spent some time talking with the devs at PAX. They showed me the new areas and also how legendary weapons work. One cool thing is that any items you have right now could very well be legendary. Also, to deal with the problem that WoW has where when an expansion comes out, all your awesome raid gear is replaced by greens, they have a system where if the item is legendary, you can break it down into components to use to make your legendary gear even better. I absolutely love LOTRO and think it is the best MMO out there and what I saw at PAX makes me even more glad I play.

It basically would mean that any of your purple stuff would be replaced by yellow. However, Turbine came up with a good solution for it. Actually, I never raid in this game, so I am not sure if there is something more bad ass in LOTRO than a purple. Basically, it would mean that all your awesome gear in LOTRO would be bested by one step above trash loot. This was a major complaint by people who play WoW.

It basically would mean that any of your purple stuff would be replaced by yellow. However, Turbine came up with a good solution for it. Actually, I never raid in this game, so I am not sure if there is something more bad ass in LOTRO than a purple. Basically, it would mean that all your awesome gear in LOTRO would be bested by one step above trash loot. This was a major complaint by people who play WoW.

I'm still not sure what this actually means. What difference does the color make? Basically, I'm just not sure what your point is. Either you're jumping past some vital information that I can't figure out myself, or my brain is failing me.

Purple isn't the highest tier in LOTRO, btw. If you have a level 50 character who's played through most of the epic story, at least half of your equipment should be teal. I've also heard that a select few items are brown or a similar color, which is really rare stuff.

I'm expecting my Rift boots and gauntlets to last me a few levels into Moria before I find something to replace them with.

I'm still not sure what this actually means. What difference does the color make? Basically, I'm just not sure what your point is. Either you're jumping past some vital information that I can't figure out myself, or my brain is failing me.

Purple isn't the highest tier in LOTRO, btw. If you have a level 50 character who's played through most of the epic story, at least half of your equipment should be teal. I've also heard that a select few items are brown or a similar color, which is really rare stuff.

I'm expecting my Rift boots and gauntlets to last me a few levels into Moria before I find something to replace them with.

Okay, I don't know if you've ever played WoW, so I guess I will break this down to very simple terms. Let's say you are playing an MMO and the best armor in the game can only be gotten by constant instance raiding where there is no guarantee you will get said piece of armor even if you go through it once. You raid and raid and raid, taking months to put together a set of the best armor in the game. An expansion comes out and you come to find out that a person can basically get armor that is better than yours by doing a basic quest or as a random mob drop.

So, I am assuming this will still happen in Moria, but the awesome armor could be reforged into tokens which you can then use to improve your legendary equipment. Therefore, all that time you invested isn't totally wasted.

There doesn't actually seem to be an expansion-only box available (just a "digital upgrade," if you only want the expansion). Not necessarily a bad thing. The "complete edition" box includes all LOTRO updates since launch, so if you ever return to the game or have to restore it, it'll save some downloading time - a lot, if yer still on dialup.

yeah, they probably took a lesson from WoW there - the idea sounds great actually! The above is what killed WoW for me - half an hour into outlands, and my badass chest armor was obsolete...

This is the same reason I eventually stopped playing DAoC after the Trials of Atlantis expansion. That combined with the way Mythic constantly monkeyed around with class balance and replied so arrogantly to mine and friends suggestion / queries has brought me to the point where I'm comfortable saying their complete ass hats. It's also the reason why, despite Warhammer Online being the new, bold rising sun, it's only a dim light in the sky for me! Too bad that anyone who goes with it won't discover how inept Mythic is until they're a few expansions in.

I've only ever played the final beta of LotRO, but I was impressed and always meant to eventually get into the full game. I also know it'll run decently on my aging game rig despite not having made the jump to Vista and DX10. I was considering AoC, but after it ran like crap on my system I passed; a shame since I was really into AO for a number of years. The way that Turbine are handling existing weapons and armor after the expansion sounds great and IMHO better than any other MMORPG. The new weapon as self entity system sounds excellent; kind of reminds me of the sword Grosspolimar in the anime Silent Mobius. I'm pretty damn sure I'm IN with Mines of Moria day 1, just not sure if I'm going to go with digital download or the 'Complete Edition' box. I've noticed that bestbuy.ca and futureshop.ca don't even have listing for the Complete Edition box yet, so I might be forced to go digital anyways.

A Rune-Keeper + Dwarf combo sounds like it'd be awesome and I can't remember being so pumped about a new race and class since DAoC's Valkyn + Bone Dancer. When I was close to jumping in on Shadows of Angmar I was considering a dwarf - minstrel combo and did a lot of reading on that class and the game.My question to anyone who's put in a decent amount of time with this game is; would I be lost if I went with a Dwarf - Rune-keeper from the start?

A Rune-Keeper + Dwarf combo sounds like it'd be awesome and I can't remember being so pumped about a new race and class since DAoC's Valkyn + Bone Dancer. When I was close to jumping in on Shadows of Angmar I was considering a dwarf - minstrel combo and did a lot of reading on that class and the game.My question to anyone who's put in a decent amount of time with this game is; would I be lost if I went with a Dwarf - Rune-keeper from the start?

While I haven't played a dwarf or an elf yet, I do know some of the things that make them different. If you're wondering about the viability of a dwarf as a caster, don't. Elves probably have slightly better caster stats from the start, but dwarves eventually get a better racial power (something like +75% to all resistances for 10 seconds).

The Rune-Keeper itself is considered an advanced class, so if you're afraid of being overwhelmed, it's probably not a good choice. On the other hand, LOTRO doesn't rush you into new skills and content. You have plenty of time to get used to the class before you need to head into a real instance or raid.

I've no clue who "Zombie Columbus" is (a member of LOTRO's dev team, and apparently head of the team developing the new Rune-Keeper class), but he posted a pretty interesting attempt at a "Rune-Keeper mini-FAQ."

I’m worried that no one at Turbine [has] considered the lore of the Rune-keeper.Lore consideration has been part of the classes design since day one. Since I was first asked to head the development of the class, keeping the class grounded in Tolkien’s work has been a high priority. Actually, the lore was a great help in deciding what he could and couldn’t do, which helped focus the gameplay design choices. On a personal level, I am very proud of the result and believe that playing the class in game is fun, exciting and less lore jarring then most fear.

How will the Rune-keepers DPS compare to the Hunter or Champion?As stated in the dev diary, the rune-keeper is designed to be a primary DPS class. Expect the damage he can deal out to be in the same ballpark as those two. Much as the Hunter and Champion are different yet comparable, the Rune-keeper will have is own strengths and weaknesses. The Rune-keepers biggest difference is that it takes more time to ramp up to full effect, due to his DoT (damage over time) based gameplay. The best example of this is the Writ of Fire skill. Using it puts a DoT on a foe, but using it a second and third time will upgrade that DoT up to full damage. After that, occasional uses of the skill will be required to maintain the DoT at full strength.

What about healing? Will my Minstrel be useless?Minstrels will not be useless, but they will no longer be the only primary healer. Much as with damage, the Rune-keeper will be healing comparable amounts as the Minstrel, but in different ways. The Rune-keeper will do some things better and some things worse then the Minstrel. The Rune-keeper’s emphasis is on maintenance and HoTs (heal over time), with his quick heals lacking compared to the Minstrel. Like DPS, it will take time to get all of his HoTs pulsing.

CC? But that’s what Burglars and Lore-masters are supposed to do!That wasn’t a question, but I know what you are saying. The design of the Rune-keeper was interesting because when Battle attuned (as most solo players will likely be) there are no good heals to get you out of a bind. This, coupled with his light armour and lack of a shield, made adding some form of CC important to keep soloing viable. However, since the Rune-keeper is not a CC class, any skills that were added needed to be low potency and not very useful during group play. With those design goals in mind, I made the few CC skills that he does have. Shocking Touch, from the dev diary, is a good example. It dazes, but for a short amount of time and only at melee range, and pulls Attunement towards the Steady state. This skill works very well while soloing, but not terribly useful during group play, since the Rune-keeper will usually try to be a distance from the fighting.

Heals and DPS on one character? You sir, are mad!Just about every LOTRO class has multiple roles it can fill if geared, traited and played particular ways, the Rune-keeper is no different. Like those other classes, the Rune-keeper has stops in place that keep him from being multiple roles at the same time. In fact, the stops for the Rune-keeper are more extreme then other classes we’ve done this with. Consider the Minstrel swapping from War-speech to healing (1 toggle) or a Champion dropping from Fervor to Glory stance (1 toggle). The Rune-keeper will require multiple skill plays to go from fully Battle Attuned to Healing, and if not properly traited, will not be able to dish out as much healing or damage as others.

Will Elves be able to use the same runes as Dwarves?There is no mechanical difference between the two races. There was some thought of doing this, but it was decided not to make the initial race choice (a choice that cannot be changed later) significantly impact a player’s gameplay style.

Will Rune-stones really be the only weapon? Where do they come from?Yes. You will be auto-attacking in melee with them. The Rune-stones will not allow the Rune-keeper to block, but parrying is possible. Rune-stones will be able to be crafted by Jewelers and be found in loot, boss drops and as quest reward.

I think part of the reason for all the flame wars (at the official forums) over this class is fear, and lack of precise information. I can understand Turbine not wanting to reveal too much too soon in terms of the expansion, but LOTRO has has no new classes since launch. You gotta expect players to be nervous about how new character types change the mix, impact other character types, etc.