PT Revisiting the prequels

1. not if it didn't knock out the droid control, as far as they knew, damaging the hangers would not damage the droid control systems.

2. Nothing in the film states the Endor Bunker was protected by the shield, if it did the Rebel strike team or Ewokes could not walk to it without getting fried.

3. Ties chase the MF though the atmosphere of Bespin in TESB, so yes they can function inside a planets atmosphere.

4. Except he wanted to start training Anakin without training him, bending the rules as he usually does. Being a Jedi is not the safest job, and if Anakin has enough prescience to pilot podracers, then he had enough to not get himself killed in a battle. Our own US army used to have boys play drums on battle fields, the Jedi and the Star Wars culture may view this differently than our modern culture would.

5. That is simplly your opinion which I do not share, Maul was supposed to be a throw away villan who still had more character than Boba Fett ever did and who flew onto the skiff instead of snipering from the barge, again really stupid. But then it is like Vader stands by Palps in ROTJ after he ordered Luke to kill him but refused. It was pretty naive of Palps to trust Vader at all after that.

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1) Shooting of weapons or torpedoes INSIDE the ship WILL do far more damage than shooting at it from the outside. The hangar is quite big and explosions will spread to the rest of the ship, also the main reactor was also inside the hangar, a not very sensible choice. The TF fighters wanted to hurt the TF ship, so one ship flying inside and shooting of all of it's weapons will do just that.

2. Wrong, look at the rebel briefing, the whole of Endor is protected by the shield which means that rebels ships can not get to to it from the outside. Also the whole of Endor was shielded, which is why Han and co had to give a passcode to the imperials for them to lower the shield so they could fly down. Once they are down, they have no problem to reach the shield generator as the they are behind the shield.

3. Ok I had forgotten that, but still could TIE bombers fly down and UNDER the rebel shield? The rebels don't use their X-Wings when flying over Hoth, either when looking for Luke and Han nor in the battle, which suggests that space crafts are not that usefull in flying that close to a planets surface. Also the rebels said that they had problems adapting their surface ships to the cold of Hoth, which could be another reason why TIEs might not be usefull.

4. Flying in a pod race is VERY different from being in a war zone, I don't follow this logic at all. Anakin could easily have gotten himself killed, he has no weapon, no training. Do the Jedi start their new jedi to be by dropping them into a war zone and see who survives? I very much doubt that.
How long has it been since the US army used drummer boys in the battle field? And did all those drummer boys survive the battle?
The US army also have used weapons of mass destruction, like nukes, I don't see the Jedi use weapons like that.
Why didn't the republic forces in AotC simply blast Geonosis from space or from the air once they had got all the Jedi out of there?
Why use WWI tactics when you have access to orbital bombardment?

5. I have never compared Maul to Boba Fett, whom I consider to be not very intersting either. So if he has more character than Boba Fett, big deal. Both have very little in terms of intersting characters. Tarkin had far more character than either of them and was far more interesting and meancing.
As did Vader in ANH, despite having a rather small role. If you can have a more developed villain instead of a throw away one, why not?
In short Maul was all style and no substance, he existed to fight well, kill Qui-Gon and then die. His role could have been carried out by a rifle.
Dooku was a step up, shame that he was given little to do in AotC and was killed of too quickly in RotS.

This thread is about the PT and unless the poster you are responding to have said that the OT is without flaws while complaing that the PT has flaws your argument is beside the point.

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Again your opinion.

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Not really, just saying that you are attributing opinions to me that I have not given in this thread.
I don''t think the OT is without flaws but the ones you have brought up and not very serious or indeed flaws at all.
For the record, I think both the PT and OT has flaws but I favour the OT because I like the characters more, simple as that.

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface[/quote]

1. those were only machines that caused a chain reaction with the reactor (ala ANH) that took out the whole ship, again the Naboo pilots had know idea of how the TF ship is constructed and take advantage of weak spots or design flaws like with the Death Star, this is the fatal flaw in your argument. The film shows the Naboo trying to bomb the antennas to knock ot the droid control. It has been show shields only protect for so long before they fail like with the MF, the droid control ship's shield may have failed after a prolonged fighter attack but it may takjen to long. They would have no idea how far any explosions set off in the hangers could spread though the rest of the ship. The film show the hangers are in separated sections with large doors that can close sections off and contain fires and explosions. They blew up a Republic ship much larger than a fighter near the start of the film with no apparent damage to the hanger. As Anakin shows,they would have to fly all the way to the rear most hanger section, and fire into the machinery area set deep into the back most wall, yet they process no knowledge this could be done yet alone how to do it. If they only blow up the outer hanger sections, the TF can just contain them and continue operating the droids. Just like the Death Star, you must hit the weak spot, only the Naboo didn't know of it, while the Rebel did. By your logic, the Rebels should have flown into the Death Star's hangers and dropped bombs in them to knock it out.

2. Only Death Star 2 is protected, not the bunker or generator itself. The Rebel's Hoth Generator was a set of coils to protect the base, while the Imperal generator was a dish to project a shield around the Death Star. Iron Load's picture clearly shows this.

3. X-Wings are too high speed to attack ground tanks and walkers. The Army uses Warthogs and Helicopters to attack tanks, not F16s which bomb bunkers and attack other jet fighters.

4. How so?, the racers were trying to make each other crash, which would have a high chance of being killed, and Sandpeople taking pop shots at them, alot closer to a warzone than Luke was ever exposed to until he left Tatootine. Drummer boys were killed in battle, some died in an act of self-sacrifice many were caught in artillery fire. They fell out of favor during the 19th century. Culture bak then viewed children differentally than our modern culture, the Jedi may think that way, which has nothing to do with nukes, I don't even know where you got that from.They did use some airstrikes, but they wanted to capture the CIS so they would not escape.

Not really, just saying that you are attributing opinions to me that I have not given in this thread.
I don''t think the OT is without flaws but the ones you have brought up and not very serious or indeed flaws at all.
For the record, I think both the PT and OT has flaws but I favour the OT because I like the characters more, simple as that.

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Again it is your opinion they are minor flaws, most of what I stated are serious flaws but you can choose to ignore them, but why nit pick the same ones in the PT but ignore them in the OT? Makes no sense to me. Again you are pushing for double standards.

2. Wrong, look at the rebel briefing, the whole of Endor is protected by the shield which means that rebels ships can not get to to it from the outside. Also the whole of Endor was shielded, which is why Han and co had to give a passcode to the imperials for them to lower the shield so they could fly down. Once they are down, they have no problem to reach the shield generator as the they are behind the shield.

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This is the picture I'm talking about:

I'm not denying that Endor has a shield- just that the one shown on the hologram, clearly does not protect the whole of Endor itself.

Either the landing pad is inside that very small circle- or there is a second shield, not shown on the hologram, protecting the whole of Endor

Looking at the D2 in ROTJ, its big. And relatively speaking as big as the first, which is the size of a small moon. So this makes Endor a fairly large moon in a galactic scale. So the area around the generator itself is large. End of question. Next.

Only Death Star 2 is protected, not the bunker or generator itself. The Rebel's Hoth Generator was a set of coils to protect the base, while the Imperal generator was a dish to project a shield around the Death Star.

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We know that Shuttle Tydirum had to pass through at least one shield to land (hence the request to deactivate it so they could).

I'm OK with the notion that there are two shields, but I could see the argument that there is one shield protecting the Death Star + its own generator + everything for a short distance around it, being valid as well.

2. Wrong, look at the rebel briefing, the whole of Endor is protected by the shield which means that rebels ships can not get to to it from the outside. Also the whole of Endor was shielded, which is why Han and co had to give a passcode to the imperials for them to lower the shield so they could fly down. Once they are down, they have no problem to reach the shield generator as the they are behind the shield.

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This is the picture I'm talking about:

I'm not denying that Endor has a shield- just that the one shown on the hologram, clearly does not protect the whole of Endor itself.

Either the landing pad is inside that very small circle- or there is a second shield, not shown on the hologram, protecting the whole of Endor

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That circle would be the projecter dish, not even the whole base.

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Endor is the size of the Earth, how big do you think that would be compared to the whole of the Earth?
It would mean the dish is hundreds of km wide.
In any event the movie has Han ask the imperials to LOWER the deflector shield in order to land, so your point is disproven. The generator is protected by the shield so therfore the rebels can't bomb it, case closed.

1. those were only machines that caused a chain reaction with the reactor (ala ANH) that took out the whole ship, again the Naboo pilots had know idea of how the TF ship is constructed and take advantage of weak spots or design flaws like with the Death Star, this is the fatal flaw in your argument. The film shows the Naboo trying to bomb the antennas to knock ot the droid control. It has been show shields only protect for so long before they fail like with the MF, the droid control ship's shield may have failed after a prolonged fighter attack but it may takjen to long. They would have no idea how far any explosions set off in the hangers could spread though the rest of the ship. The film show the hangers are in separated sections with large doors that can close sections off and contain fires and explosions. They blew up a Republic ship much larger than a fighter near the start of the film with no apparent damage to the hanger. As Anakin shows,they would have to fly all the way to the rear most hanger section, and fire into the machinery area set deep into the back most wall, yet they process no knowledge this could be done yet alone how to do it. If they only blow up the outer hanger sections, the TF can just contain them and continue operating the droids. Just like the Death Star, you must hit the weak spot, only the Naboo didn't know of it, while the Rebel did. By your logic, the Rebels should have flown into the Death Star's hangers and dropped bombs in them to knock it out.

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First, how do you know that the Naboo people have no idea how those TF ships look like on the inside? They had some idea how strong the shields were so they must know something. Those TF ships were apparently their common ship as we see them quite often. The DS was a special project.
Second, the blowing up of the republic ship did not cause a big explosion. But detonate a couple 1 MT nukes inside the TF ship and you get far bigger results.
Third, the Naboo wanted to destroy or damage the TF ship, shooting of weapons INSIDE the ship will do that, so again no reason not to try it. Esp if you are worried that your weapons might not do enough damage from the outside. Sedning one fighter inside would be no big loss and could do lots of damage.
Fourth, the DS hangar were shielded so it might not be possible to fly into them. Second, the DS is the size of a moon, the TF ship is far smaller so a similar size explosion would do little to the DS while it would serioulsy damage the TF ship. A 10 kT nuke would do lost of damage to a city but to a whole planet, the damage is far smaller.

2. Only Death Star 2 is protected, not the bunker or generator itself. The Rebel's Hoth Generator was a set of coils to protect the base, while the Imperal generator was a dish to project a shield around the Death Star. Iron Load's picture clearly shows this.

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See previous post

3. X-Wings are too high speed to attack ground tanks and walkers. The Army uses Warthogs and Helicopters to attack tanks, not F16s which bomb bunkers and attack other jet fighters.

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Evidence for this? X-Wings are capable of flying at different speeds. Those AT-AT's are not very mobile so targetting them would not be hard.

4. How so?, the racers were trying to make each other crash, which would have a high chance of being killed, and Sandpeople taking pop shots at them, alot closer to a warzone than Luke was ever exposed to until he left Tatootine. Drummer boys were killed in battle, some died in an act of self-sacrifice many were caught in artillery fire. They fell out of favor during the 19th century. Culture bak then viewed children differentally than our modern culture, the Jedi may think that way, which has nothing to do with nukes, I don't even know where you got that from.They did use some airstrikes, but they wanted to capture the CIS so they would not escape.

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Really, so being in the Paris-Dakar rally is the same as being in WW2?
Also, Qui-Gon knew there was a risk but he needed Anakin to win in order to get what he wanted. On Naboo he risks Anakins life for no reason.
You made a comparsion with the US army, I just happen to think that they are not really a good comparison with the Jedi. The Jedi perhaps wanted to capture Dooku, the rest of the CIS they were apparently happy to blow to bits. And Dooku, the priority was that he not escape so it is quite possible that they wanted him dead as well. So an air-strike would make sense but for some reason they don't use it.

Again it is your opinion they are minor flaws, most of what I stated are serious flaws but you can choose to ignore them, but why nit pick the same ones in the PT but ignore them in the OT? Makes no sense to me. Again you are pushing for double standards.

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First, I have given counters to the flaws you have mentioned so far and thus I don't consider them serious. Second, as I said, I prefer the OT due to the characters, not the flaws.

Endor is the size of the Earth, how big do you think that would be compared to the whole of the Earth?

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What source tells you that Endor is the size of the Earth?

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Since gravity looks to be about the same strength as here on Earth the size would be similar.
If it was the size of Mars, then gravity would be about a third of here so objects would fall slower etc.
If it was the size of the moon then the difference would be even bigger, plus it would not have an atmosphere.