I stumbled across some information that surprised me today. I am interested in purchasing a transferrable full -auto and have been researching the subject. This is what I read:

" Many people believe that it is OK to let someone else use your Class 3 weapon if you are present. A careful reading of the NFA show that the word transfer includes this type of action and thus is prohibited under the NFA."

I never suspected that letting someone else fire a NFA weapon with the owner present would constitute transferring said weapon. What is everybodys take on this ? Has anybody ever been prosecuted for letting someone else have a bit of trigger time if they (the owner) are present ? What about the machine gun rental buisness ? How can they rent and make a buisness on rentals of NFA weapons if it is illegal ? Different licensing ? Are these rental places dealers that are under different guidelines ?

It would take a lot of the fun out of ownership of a full-auto if it was a federal felony to let friends and family try it out.

There has been a lot of debate about this, on a lot of different forums...for example if your NFA weapon is owned by a corporation...then anyone that is on the board or an officer can have happy trigger time. The problem is with the definition of the word "possession." Anyone that has a NFA weapon, must always be the possessor of it...this verbiage was baked in, so that I can't register a weapon and then give it to my felon friend Johnny Six pack to go rob a bank with. I don't think anyone is going to prosecute you if your friends or family shoots your toy in your presence. A high school friend of mine now works for BATFE, and he gave me the example of the Knob creek shoots and several other MG shoots where all kinds of people shoot NFA weapons that "technically" aren't registered to them. Your example of ranges that own F/A guns and renting them is also a good one. The thing that the bureau cares the most about is that the weapon be legal and registered. As long as you are there in person, supervising while the weapon is in operation, You should be good to go, any "rational" person is going to have a hard time bringing charges against you as long as you aren't engaged in any sort of illegal activity like robbery etc etc etc.

I think richmondtx summed it up pretty good. I've let several people shoot my M16 out at our range while I was there. Including several of the local Sheriff's Deputies, Highway Patrols and one FBI personal. No one here's ever given me problems about it.

We have some big group shoots here in the desert. A lot of the guys have NFA items. Everybody winds up shooting everybody else's stuff all the time.
We occasionally will have BLM Rangers show up. But that is only to see if they can get some trigger time in on the fun stuff. Never anything said about who owns what. In fact I have never even seen them ask about copies of the ATF forms proving that the guns are legal.

I haven't heard of one instance where BATFE has defined "possession" to only permit the owner to handle/shoot the gun. In fact, if you want to take the "possession" requirement to its extreme, you might as well duct-tape that machine gun to your body, even when you take a crap or go for a swim.

On the other hand, I believe that there are plenty of drug cases where people were convicted of possession of narcotics even when the drugs were not physically on their bodies.

I wouldn't get too hung up on the definition of possession, though. It's generally understood that so long as you are within a physical distance where you can exercise control over who is shooting/handling the weapon, you're ok.

I think the key is "constructive possession" meaning you are in the area of the weapon and control who holds it and who uses it, not out of sight of the weapon. Constructive possession is a legal fiction to describe a situation where an individual has actual control over chattels or real property without actually having physical control of the same assets. At law, a person with constructive possession stands in the same legal position as a person with actual possession. For example, if you take a weapon to have it refinished, you need to be in the plant with the weapon, but most folks won't let you go back into the actual finishing area because of safety regulations. As long as you are in the same general area as the weapon and can "control" it, you are OK. As mentioned, otherwise you could never let the weapon get away from you. What about when you go to work and leave the thing in your vault, and your wife is at home. Who is in "possession" of it then?

Medalguy is right. Some of those terms, like "possession" and "transfer", used in laws and regulations have legal meanings that are implied. Many people and even many ATF agents don't fully understand that, thinking that if I hand someone my registered TSMG to look over, I have made an illegal transfer.

" Many people believe that it is OK to let someone else use your Class 3 weapon if you are present. A careful reading of the NFA show that the word transfer includes this type of action and thus is prohibited under the NFA."

I think it is completely false. If this claim was true, then those businesses advertising machinegun rentals on freeway billboards and at airports would be in serious legal trouble.

Welcome to TFL! I can't quote the applicable law, but I've worked at an FFL/SOT and I've talked to a few ATF agents, and I can tell you that the law is interpreted to mean that it's OK as long as you're in the immediate vicinity. It's fine to let your buddies shoot your NFA items, just stay nearby. As far as leaving them on the shooting bench and walking downrange, you're fine as long as you're not worried about theft. Me, I wouldn't leave my suppressors on my shooting bench unattended, but I don't shoot at a private range like Sharkbite does.

Worrying about letting someone handle your NFA goodies, is like worrying about the Zombie Apocalypse. Sure it could happen, but there's plenty of other more realistic problems to worry about.

Contrary to the NRA's propaganda and fundraising efforts, most ATF agents aren't Jack-Booted-Thugs busy inventing things to arrest you on and are actually pretty laid back and more concerned about actual criminals, not if you're letting your buddy shoot your MG.

Over the years I've shot at many ranges and taken NFA items to many gunshows and I've never had anyone give me any hassle for them. So relax, step back and just enjoy your toys without worrying about black helicopters and such.

__________________
"Our contract called for 16 cases of rifles and ammunition for $10,000 dollars, not a machine gun...........That is our present to the General"-Pike Bishop

“When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”

This email link is to reach site administrators for assistance, if you cannot access TFL via other means. If you are a TFL member and can access TFL, please do not use this link; instead, use the forums (like Questions, Suggestions, and Tech Support) or PM an appropriate mod or admin.

If you are experiencing difficulties posting in the Buy/Sell/Trade subforums of TFL, please read the "sticky" announcement threads at the top of the applicable subforum. If you still feel you are qualified to post in those subforums, please contact "Shane Tuttle" (the mod for that portion of TFL) via Private Message for assistance.

This email contact address is not an "Ask the Firearms Expert" service. Such emails will be ignored. If you have a firearm related question, please register and post it on the forums.