lemur wrote:and dont forget those 10 principles werent there from the beginning... they reflected stuff that was largely already happening when they were made

so yeah RADICAL SELF EXPRESSION... hearkens to the stuff people were doing...... maybe in some ways its there to remind you that some stuff goes beyond 'free speech' type stuff... you certainly give up any right to NOT be offended once you ride up to the gate at burning man.. and largely also... once youre in the larger burning man community ..online and off of it.. (again.. i dont think all of the stuff you see here on eplaya can be blamed on anonymous internet behavior)

big chunks of the interesting stuff that have gone down in this whole burning man thing have been done by fuckhead prankster types who do stuff as they see fit...... in doing so theyve created environments and experiences that have made other people feel free to do as they see fit.

this isnt the rainbow gathering.. .....harshing someones buzz might actually do some good!

this is the kind of thing that has pumped through the veins of this burning man thing.... if you can understand the shade safety video you can understand burning man..

Understand it, is there really anyone that wouldn't understand it? Are you really insinuating that there is a hidden master lesson in this boring little video? There is no place in my life when I ever have or ever would be a "fuckhead prankster". They are however, in case you have not noticed, everywhere, not just on the playa. Not an accomplishment in my eyes but again to each his own. I do not attempt to sway you to my way of thinking. Much has combined to make Burning Man what it is and personally I do not think any "fuckhead pranksters" role in it is the main reason I am going but everything is part of the whole and since I have not yet been I am sure to be surprised by much...at least hopefully:-) I guess actually I don't really even care why anyone wants to give a rude response to a question to someone they do not know. It happens. Shit does. I still do not think it would hurt a reasonable person to allow a thread to exist without snarky comments but it looks like it must. I guess you will have to get over it..... or not..... or choose to be snarky in this thread......or whatever makes your hair fly back. We all have so many choices!

Since you asked for "one" helpful thread, I thought maybe you missed all the helpful threads that's floating around. Wouldn't want that.

Me either. That is why I came here to begin with, information. Now I have some friends here and I am excited about my first burn. What I asked for was one snarkless thread. That would appear impossible on this message board. Anyone that would post a simple question and expect a reasonable answer would just be assaulted by snark now in this thread. It will not be for the weak obviously:-( Sort of defeats my purpose doesn't it. Oh well..lucky I was not trying to save the world I guess:-/

Snark serves several practical functions, actually.Any community has some sort of hazing rituals attached. I think it's a natural thing, because it is so universal. We all have to prove ourselves. To "belong" on eplaya, well, you don't have to snark, but you have to be able to deal with snark. Complaining about snark only encourages snarkers.On playa, people do very nice things for each other on a grand scale. I'm not just talking about large art or mega dance stages or super-fun theme camps, but they'll help you put up your shade, they'll lend you tools, they'll feed you, they'll give you a place to stay if your cozy vacation with hot love object suddenly turns into domestic violence. There is an awful lot of giving... No one wants to give to those who cannot stand up form themselves and who will suck you dry with that, and no one wants to give to a drainbow who spends his/her life getting from others and talking peace and love. Doing some separating out of wheat and chaff before people are on playa, before it's closer to survival, is a darn good idea.Snark is some of the chewing gum that holds eplaya together. People who write good advice threads, people who have good answers to questions, have to have good reason to check in every day or a couple times a week. If the board is boring they won't do it. Snark is a form of play, at times. You've got a lot of bright, easily bored people on here, we snark for each other more than anything else.And, yes, as Lemur points out, the event's tone was set by a bunch of pranksters. People who were messing with "default reality" because they found it stifling and trite. People who liked to bring the pretentious down...

Yeah, you can say we're misfits who don't have any social skills so this is the best we can do. There's some truth in that, but it's not the only truth, or even the most important one. You can go to the "Fuck" thread and read a couple of pages and people there are sharing the horrors that beset them and getting support and very little to no flack. We do have a sense of when it really isn't needed.Anyway, it's a part of this board, maybe in a yin-yang way. I'm not much of a philosopher.Fuck it, I'm done. There's nothing more I can say...

The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

theCryptofishist wrote:Snark serves several practical functions, actually.Any community has some sort of hazing rituals attached. I think it's a natural thing, because it is so universal. We all have to prove ourselves. To "belong" on eplaya, well, you don't have to snark, but you have to be able to deal with snark. Complaining about snark only encourages snarkers.On playa, people do very nice things for each other on a grand scale. I'm not just talking about large art or mega dance stages or super-fun theme camps, but they'll help you put up your shade, they'll lend you tools, they'll feed you, they'll give you a place to stay if your cozy vacation with hot love object suddenly turns into domestic violence. There is an awful lot of giving... No one wants to give to those who cannot stand up form themselves and who will suck you dry with that, and no one wants to give to a drainbow who spends his/her life getting from others and talking peace and love. Doing some separating out of wheat and chaff before people are on playa, before it's closer to survival, is a darn good idea.Snark is some of the chewing gum that holds eplaya together. People who write good advice threads, people who have good answers to questions, have to have good reason to check in every day or a couple times a week. If the board is boring they won't do it. Snark is a form of play, at times. You've got a lot of bright, easily bored people on here, we snark for each other more than anything else.And, yes, as Lemur points out, the event's tone was set by a bunch of pranksters. People who were messing with "default reality" because they found it stifling and trite. People who liked to bring the pretentious down...

Yeah, you can say we're misfits who don't have any social skills so this is the best we can do. There's some truth in that, but it's not the only truth, or even the most important one. You can go to the "Fuck" thread and read a couple of pages and people there are sharing the horrors that beset them and getting support and very little to no flack. We do have a sense of when it really isn't needed.Anyway, it's a part of this board, maybe in a yin-yang way. I'm not much of a philosopher.Fuck it, I'm done. There's nothing more I can say...

You all keep insisting I don't get it. I do. I got it. I have read all your explanations not only here, but in the other threads you feel the need to explain your positions on snark, pretty much the same people justifying their actions in multiple threads. That actually says as much to me as what you are saying...that you feel the need to say it so often. I understand why there is snark here, why you think it should be here, why you think it must be here, I just thought perhaps It does not have to be everywhere here. Obviously it does. Again...I get it:-)

inthecolumbiagorge wrote:What I asked for was one snarkless thread. That would appear impossible on this message board. Anyone that would post a simple question and expect a reasonable answer would just be assaulted by snark now in this thread.

Let's review this a little. You started a thread and mentioned "nice" multiple times, thus attracting attention to "niceness" than "help".Nothing wrong with it except...1) you assumed prematurely that the thread would get snarky (hence the "nice" announcement)2) attracted unwanted attention by screaming that it won't be snarky

And how can you own the thread when its on a public forum? Maybe if moderators allow you to be the sole poster. Then its not a collective effort.IMO, most of the helpful threads on here are not mean snarky (they could be funny snarky).

Maybe your approach didn't get you the result you wanted to achieve. Try again. But, there is something they say about people who do the same thing over and over again but expecting different results.

But it's not everywhere here, as Fishy points out. However, as Lemur says, if you put up a "snark-free zone" sign, you're going to get clobbered by snark. This might feel like a violation of your boundaries, or something, but it's not, really. As the various moderators have explained elsewhere (and as wh..sh says, above), a thread you start is not "yours," it belongs to the community.EDIT: wh...sh beat me to it. What she said!

If you want drama to stop following you everywhere, try letting go of the leash.

inthecolumbiagorge wrote:What I asked for was one snarkless thread. That would appear impossible on this message board. Anyone that would post a simple question and expect a reasonable answer would just be assaulted by snark now in this thread.

Let's review this a little. You started a thread and mentioned "nice" multiple times, thus attracting attention to "niceness" than "help".Nothing wrong with it except...1) you assumed prematurely that the thread would get snarky (hence the "nice" announcement)2) attracted unwanted attention by screaming that it won't be snarky

And how can you own the thread when its on a public forum? Maybe if moderators allow you to be the sole poster. Then its not a collective effort.IMO, most of the helpful threads on here are not mean snarky (they could be funny snarky).

Maybe your approach didn't get you the result you wanted to achieve. Try again. But, there is something they say about people who do the same thing over and over again but expecting different results.

Ok, I have talked too much sense for one day.

I apologize if I implied any ownership of this or any thread. I did put my name on it, not to claim ownership, just to offer of myself, but I did not for one second believe I had enough information to answer any but rudimentary questions with real information and "hoped" for assistance by all the wonderful people here and that is the honest truth. As for my expectations I got just what I thought I would:-) (see #1 and #2 above) I was not delusional in what would be posted here. Anyone that pays any attention to the posts on this board could have almost scripted it all, even to the cast of characters.

catinthefunnyhat wrote:But it's not everywhere here, as Fishy points out. However, as Lemur says, if you put up a "snark-free zone" sign, you're going to get clobbered by snark. This might feel like a violation of your boundaries, or something, but it's not, really. As the various moderators have explained elsewhere (and as wh..sh says, above), a thread you start is not "yours," it belongs to the community.EDIT: wh...sh beat me to it. What she said!

I don't feel a violation of my boundaries. I understand however how a person could. I don't see snark everywhere here. Even those that are the snarkiest sometimes are the most amazingly compassionate in some threads. None of the threads are mine and I did not mean to imply any such thing. I will stand by my assertion however that it should not be such a big deal to you or anyone else to have one snarkless thread. And yet it seems to be.

Back in the days when tribe worked, Bobzilla would make a virgins' tribe for every year. The vets who joined that were willing to put up with the repetition, usw, so I guess it worked. (I never spent much time there.) Maybe fb could be made to work in that manner.

The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

If you'd simply started doing what it is you want to do (help other virgins with [accurate] information and links) you wouldn't have caught any flak for it. The reaction you're getting owes a great deal to the initial grand pronouncement, and the tone of the title of your thread, most specifically the portion "and at least Susy will be nice about it." It devalues the contributions of the many people who do endeavor to be friendly. (O hai). Even most of the folks who love to snark, tease or be rude have the areas in which they are generous with their expertise. Anyway, whether or not you intended to sound passive-aggressive, that's how it comes across, and it's one reason why you have the reaction you have.

This thread might de-evolve. Wait and see, if you want, or just start doing. You can click "view new posts" from the main index, and simply look for what needs answers. Or greet people in the Introduce Yourself forum. If the first dozen responses one receives at ePlaya say "hi" or other nice things, the 13th inevitable post of "Fuck yer day" has a lot better chance of rolling off.

*** 2017 Survival Guide ***"I must've lost it when I was twerking at the trash fence." -- BBadger

Savannah....I don't think I am the one not getting the point. Do you really think I would post such a thread without expecting said "flak"? Of course not. I read most of the new posts daily and I know what to expect and from whom. I have read your joyful and usually kind posts many times:-) I have quietly done exactly as you suggest for the few months I have been on the board. As a first timer there is little I have to offer except some little encouragement or sharing our preparations. I am not trying to be a hero here. I just call em as I see em and I can see how a person that has not yet invested much time on this board could feel alienated immediately. I personally think that is a shame as there are so many wonderful voices to be heard here, much knowledge and camaraderie to share along with as much snarkiness as you can all stand in each other, which when you know a little bit about the source, is not usually unexpected or too upsetting even for those most sensitive souls. The title of the thread was a play on a similiar thread on another message board and perhaps it could have been more creative in its title but to say that I meant in any way to

devalue the contributions of the many people who do endeavor to be friendly.

is just not true and nothing could be further from my intentions. There are many threads here where there is hardly any snark at all and even then in playful fun.

Whether the main players here admit it or want to hear about it, or whatever anyone wants to say about it, my in box is the proof that there are people here have issues with snark and some of them are hurt by it. Too sensitive to be a burner? Not even! Heck if I was a betting woman I would bet that the most snarky here are the most sensitive when it comes right down to it...that is usually how human nature works. If I am the one that brings out the discussion so be it. Again I am no champion but I do have a voice and I have no problems using it. Everybody has the option of that plonk button:-)