Thy are terribly understable at any power though. There is one bum run of DX Archangels at leasts and those start out like Banshees so short and hard left finishing.

Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.

Which is why I said if a decent wind from behind. I've gone out to a field with a much more powerful thrower than me, and we both end up with the same results down wind. His are longer throws, but same discs win. Those lower speed understable discs win out down wind.

I meant that they are super flippy for a 400' thrower in howling rear winds too.

Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.

andrew wrote:I have the same problem with wide-rimmed discs because of tiny hands (although I'm recently finding some control issues are caused by having thumb too close to edge of disc). I play mostly wooded courses, and find I can throw the longest controlled shots with P-PDs.

Same here, right down to the thumb to close to the edge of the disc thing.

The PD is just a great feeling rim to me and I have small hands. The GL Saint I threw did work really well too. Watching Keltik crush his Sword all over Cedarock has me curious about trying that as well but it might be on the verge of being too wide for my tastes.

JR wrote:I meant that they are super flippy for a 400' thrower in howling rear winds too.

I know one that handles them fine. I think you get different discs than everyone else.

Not always and throwing form makes a world of difference to HSS and LSS. My on average longest driver is Zero G Quasar in light weight and i just filmed a guy throwing around a third faster than i threw into radar a year ago with 50 % more revolutions per second on his disc. He uses his wrist a lot more having the wrist bend back a lot when the disc is close to the center of the body. 29-30 RPS vs my 20. Maybe i should allow for more wrist bending back considering Avery Jenkins got the same revs as i do without wrist bend back like me often adding 100' to my record. Three very different specs for the discs.

I'm a relatively low speed fair snapper for revs, Nils (you can see him on lcgm8 channel at Youtube in Siltamäki Open 2012 where he placed 2nd losing one stroke to the course record in the final round despite playing in the rain) throws almost as fast as Avery with 50 % more spin but does not throw as far as Avery. Last summer Nils flipped my Zero G Quasar hard despite a huge apex height. For me it is pretty manageable hyzer flipper.

Your mileage should vary depending on who you compare to. And the revs for Avery are from a video we made at Tali open 2009 and you can see it on Youtube in the channel mfranssila in the two angle slow motion video. The disc Avery threw there is mine and Nils used the same disc for his throw measurement.

Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.

I just added a couple star sidewinders to my bag for easy distance through the woods. I'm finding them better for staight line accuracy with less effort rather than powering up my JLSs. My beat *SW is a hyzer flip s-curve tunnel machine, its a finesse disc/roller for sure but It easily goes just as far as my seasoned straight JLS when there's little to no wind.

I grab my Orc if I've got more room to hyzer, have a little headwind, or need a more reliable fade on a controlled distance hyzer flip. For me, Orcs go further on stable straight lines and are easy to flex on a slight anny tight s-lines (350-380' on golf lines). If you're a big hyzer flipper or have a slower arm then you might try the beast for max D. I threw PDs for a while and the orc's slightly wider rim felt better in my hand. I use an even wider rimed tournament Boatman for controlled distance wind fighting duties but a smaller rimmed pred, olf, pd, or seasoned firebird will kill wind too.

If you're considering getting a wide rimmed King (spec 2.3cm rim) try the D4 first as a further yet smaller rimmed katana. The D4 is at least 50' longer for me on a high anny max D line, and are easier to control their turn. D4s are not a headwind disc for folks throwing warp speeders 375'+ on a calm day.

Something to keep in mind is that Valkyries are being molded in the + configuration. I wouldn't throw a Valk for that reason. However, my suggestion is the PD. An Eagle-X and TBird can be pushed out far if you give them more height.

money 21 wrote:give a xs a try also the apache can get some sweet distance.

sunspot wrote:Something to keep in mind is that Valkyries are being molded in the + configuration. I wouldn't throw a Valk for that reason. However, my suggestion is the PD. An Eagle-X and TBird can be pushed out far if you give them more height.

money 21 wrote:give a xs a try also the apache can get some sweet distance.

I have never tried a XS. It's similar to a Viking, right?

I've not thrown either, but inbounds has the XS closer to the eagle-L. Viking is longer with lower values in both high speed turn and low speed fade. Dragon looks a little closer.

I haven't thrown Vikings but X XS glides well and flips more than a new Champ Eagle L and the Z XS is a very different disc with much less glide way more HSS and earlier and harder fade. Z XS is close to a new SEX.

Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.

sunspot wrote:Something to keep in mind is that Valkyries are being molded in the + configuration. I wouldn't throw a Valk for that reason. However, my suggestion is the PD. An Eagle-X and TBird can be pushed out far if you give them more height.

money 21 wrote:give a xs a try also the apache can get some sweet distance.

I have never tried a XS. It's similar to a Viking, right?

I would put the xs as longer then a eagle-l more like a valk. the z xs is alot more stable then the x xs ( it is one of the biggest difference between plastics I have seen).

JR wrote:I haven't thrown Vikings but X XS glides well and flips more than a new Champ Eagle L and the Z XS is a very different disc with much less glide way more HSS and earlier and harder fade. Z XS is close to a new SEX.

I agree with this. I have an X and Z XS and the difference between the two is night and day. I'm not sure what DC was going for with this disc but for most people it will be a good stable fairway driver. I guess I need to try a newer run of X XS to see if I can get that Valk like flight. I suspect I will only get EL.