Midwestern wrote:I'd still much rather have that than the Hilton though...

I feel like it would have set an entirely different vibe in North Downtown. Buildings would be taller, more interesting things would be down there, the crappy suburban hotels would have been done differently, etc.

I sometimes wonder about this as well. I think it would have set a precedent and created a different vibe away from the suburban looking hotels that were all built in North Downtown.

This horse is just as dead now as it was in 2003 but I've got to tilt at windmills one more time...

IF the hotel chosen by Hal Daub (the highrise) had been built look at all the land that could have been developed. Yes, yes, yes, it's also a height thing but take a look at the picture. The amount of land that the Hilton takes up is obscene. And 800 room hotel, or even the 525 room one that was proposed could have been 20-30 or more floors. And if the 525 room one was built and an expansion was warranted, as was the case, a shorter addition could have been built.

This horse is just as dead now as it was in 2003 but I've got to tilt at windmills one more time...

IF the hotel chosen by Hal Daub (the highrise) had been built look at all the land that could have been developed. Yes, yes, yes, it's also a height thing but take a look at the picture. The amount of land that the Hilton takes up is obscene. And 800 room hotel, or even the 525 room one that was proposed could have been 20-30 or more floors. And if the 525 room one was built and an expansion was warranted, as was the case, a shorter addition could have been built.

The deal was Daub picked the winner as a lame duck after losing the election. Fahey changed it out of spite or other reasons.

The cynic in me would suggest picking one group over another could be lucrative for a politician, in legal campaign contributions or possible in post mayoral jobs or contracts or deals, even in illegal cash. I am not accusing anyone of anything but building one hotel instead of another has to be worth a lot of money to the groups involved.

I seem to remember Fahey calling Hilton more "Union-friendly" than Mariott. I remember him using that as one of his deciding factors.

I want to say is was out of spite against Hal Daub. Also it was cheaper & of course that always plays into it. The proposed Marriot was 525 rooms & the wisdom was that 400 rooms would be just fine.

I found a picture from way back when. This would have made such a different vibe.

That pic looks like it came out of The Great Gatsby.

There are other renderings of this proposed hotel that make it look a bit more reserved than this one.. But indeed, it would have been an impressive development for Omaha.. Anyone who remembers my imput at the time from the old Omaha Chamber Forum (several years before this forum was created) back in 2001, will recall my profound disappointment when Fahey was elected and promptly shelved Daub's hotel..then proposed what we now know is the downtown Omaha Hilton.. But, friends, that was 15 years ago.. I've moved on. Certainly we've seen other highrise disappointments- The Wallstreet Tower debacle and recently, HDR pulling the plug on their downtown HQ's.. I agree with Novak that this Marriott, if built, would have given the area surrounding the arena and north downtown a different, perhaps more positive vibe..

That said.. I've learned over the years, there is a HUGE difference between getting excited over a proposed development vs one which actually breaks ground with tower cranes in the air. At present, I'm thrilled with the Capitol District project and potentially what it will bring to downtown Omaha..as we know for certain, this project WILL become reality and completed in a little more than a year...

Omaha Cowboy wrote:That said.. I've learned over the years, there is a HUGE difference between getting excited over a proposed development vs one which actually breaks ground with tower cranes in the air. At present, I'm thrilled with the Capitol District project and potentially what it will bring to downtown Omaha..as we know for certain, this project WILL become reality and completed in a little more than a year...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

Whoa there, lay off the sane and rationalist propaganda! Let us lament!

Jokes aside, agreed. But I think that rendering is gorgeous. I'd love to see it or something like it built North Downtown or south a bit to pull the skyline out. (and look like a sexy, sexy building from another city)

Omaha Cowboy wrote:That said.. I've learned over the years, there is a HUGE difference between getting excited over a proposed development vs one which actually breaks ground with tower cranes in the air. At present, I'm thrilled with the Capitol District project and potentially what it will bring to downtown Omaha..as we know for certain, this project WILL become reality and completed in a little more than a year...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

Whoa there, lay off the sane and rationalist propaganda! Let us lament!

Jokes aside, agreed. But I think that rendering is gorgeous. I'd love to see it or something like it built North Downtown or south a bit to pull the skyline out. (and look like a sexy, sexy building from another city)

LOL.. And to your point about a potential building, such as this, pulling the skyline out.. I completely agree ...

NovakOmaha wrote:One other thing about this design. Think of the land that would have been free for other development rather the current design needing so much more land for rooms.

There would have still been a parking garage behind the Marriott. I don't know if you would have gotten more land back.

The Des Moines downtown Marriott packs 417 rooms and all the first class amenities into 33 floors with a parking garage and takes up a half block, approx 300X150. Tossing on a few more floors and a few more rooms per floor, with all the required amenities and a parking garage and you'd still have a huge part of that land for another high rise or pretty much any development.

Wow. It's hard for me to go back in time and revisit this proposed development from 2001-

Opportunity lost..

I thought Fahey was such a chump for scrapping this hotel plan (still do).. He originally proposed a ridiculous looking 400 room Hilton.. The design was completely incompatible with the futuristic look of the now CenturyLink Center. After pressure from the city-council and the public, Fahey then had a redesigned Hilton proposal adding 50 rooms. So the Original Hilton was built with a too small 450 rooms (and we had to beg, borrow and steal to get Fahey to add 50 rooms from the initial 400).. So the Hilton we see today, was the Fahey "redesign" adding 50 rooms and thus, the 450 room, still too small Hilton was born (remember the Daub Marriott highrise was designed at 528 rooms).. of course, I said at the time, in 2001, that 450 rooms was too small and that within a 5 or so years, the city would have to add more rooms to have any sort of competitive edge (and at what cost?)..and Viola! In 2011, 150 rooms were added making the Hilton its current 600 rooms (and at an extra inflated cost)..

It was ego driven, short sightedness by Fahey.. Had he built the original Daub highrise Marriott, and perhaps enhanced the 528 room total to 550-600, the higher cost of the 2011 Hilton expansion would not have been necessary..

Sigh..

In any case, I am very pleased with the Capitol District 330 room Marriott development.. This makes nearly 1000 hotel rooms (930) within an easy walk from CenturyLink.. This puts Omaha in a much more competitive bracket when attempting to attract revenue rich conventions to the city..

I just think it's unfortunate we had to take a long, costly alternative route to finally make this happen...

The main reason Fahey chose the smaller Hilton was cost; the Hilton was originally bid at $60 million for the 400 rooms versus over $90 million for the 528 room Marriott. The redesigns to the Hilton pushed the final cost of the Hilton to $71 million for 450 rooms. Pretty tough to justify spending the extra $20 million to add 78 rooms...especially when the Hilton added twice as many rooms (150) ten years later at $37 million. (Still a lower cost per room, especially when you consider that the expansion was built with 2011 money instead of 2002 money.)

The only reason people are still upset about this is the obsession by some people for height... the same height obsession that resulted in the dumb selection of the Wall Street Tower boondoggle instead of a midrise office building. Nearly a dozen years later, all we have to show for it is the remnants of a wiffle ball field.

HskrFanMike wrote:The main reason Fahey chose the smaller Hilton was cost; the Hilton was originally bid at $60 million for the 400 rooms versus over $90 million for the 528 room Marriott. The redesigns to the Hilton pushed the final cost of the Hilton to $71 million for 450 rooms. Pretty tough to justify spending the extra $20 million to add 78 rooms...especially when the Hilton added twice as many rooms (150) ten years later at $37 million. (Still a lower cost per room, especially when you consider that the expansion was built with 2011 money instead of 2002 money.)

The only reason people are still upset about this is the obsession by some people for height... the same height obsession that resulted in the dumb selection of the Wall Street Tower boondoggle instead of a midrise office building. Nearly a dozen years later, all we have to show for it is the remnants of a wiffle ball field.

I'd take waiting a few years to get something worth downtown space rather than midrises filling our downtown...

HskrFanMike wrote:The main reason Fahey chose the smaller Hilton was cost; the Hilton was originally bid at $60 million for the 400 rooms versus over $90 million for the 528 room Marriott. The redesigns to the Hilton pushed the final cost of the Hilton to $71 million for 450 rooms. Pretty tough to justify spending the extra $20 million to add 78 rooms...especially when the Hilton added twice as many rooms (150) ten years later at $37 million. (Still a lower cost per room, especially when you consider that the expansion was built with 2011 money instead of 2002 money.)

The only reason people are still upset about this is the obsession by some people for height... the same height obsession that resulted in the dumb selection of the Wall Street Tower boondoggle instead of a midrise office building. Nearly a dozen years later, all we have to show for it is the remnants of a wiffle ball field.

I'd take waiting a few years to get something worth downtown space rather than midrises filling our downtown...

I want high rises too, but I don't want a situation like Mobile, Alabama where there's like 1 awkward tall building and no-one has heard of your city. Height is important but the city can still have a great reputation.

daveoma wrote:I want high rises too, but I don't want a situation like Mobile, Alabama where there's like 1 awkward tall building and no-one has heard of your city. Height is important but the city can still have a great reputation.

daveoma wrote:I want high rises too, but I don't want a situation like Mobile, Alabama where there's like 1 awkward tall building and no-one has heard of your city. Height is important but the city can still have a great reputation.

daveoma wrote:I want high rises too, but I don't want a situation like Mobile, Alabama where there's like 1 awkward tall building and no-one has heard of your city. Height is important but the city can still have a great reputation.

daveoma wrote:I want high rises too, but I don't want a situation like Mobile, Alabama where there's like 1 awkward tall building and no-one has heard of your city. Height is important but the city can still have a great reputation.

Not too bad for a 200k city...:

image.jpeg

MOB is on my short list for places to retire.

Mall Of the Bluffs ?

LOFL!

I've got retirement narrowed down to Texoma, Mobile or Savannah. I'm in talks with the lottery commission...

daveoma wrote:I want high rises too, but I don't want a situation like Mobile, Alabama where there's like 1 awkward tall building and no-one has heard of your city. Height is important but the city can still have a great reputation.

Not too bad for a 200k city...:

image.jpeg

MOB is on my short list for places to retire.

Mall Of the Bluffs ?

LOFL!

I've got retirement narrowed down to Texoma, Mobile or Savannah. I'm in talks with the lottery commission...

I knew what you meant but you tee'ed it up all to well. And if that lottery commission doesn't come through you can still say you meet your original plan and use this alternate as a backup plan.

daveoma wrote:I want high rises too, but I don't want a situation like Mobile, Alabama where there's like 1 awkward tall building and no-one has heard of your city. Height is important but the city can still have a great reputation.

Not too bad for a 200k city...:

image.jpeg

MOB is on my short list for places to retire.

Mall Of the Bluffs ?

LOFL!

I've got retirement narrowed down to Texoma, Mobile or Savannah. I'm in talks with the lottery commission...

I knew what you meant but you tee'ed it up all to well. And if that lottery commission doesn't come through you can still say you meet your original plan and use this alternate as a backup plan.