jst3p:If I had sustainable investment income and no family I think it would be fun to attempt to gain title to homes in this fashion and if successful sell it to a "working poor" family for a fraction of its value and move on to the next one.

How to you suppose a "working poor" family is going to pay the annual taxes, upkeep and utility bills for a house that size?

lennavan:jst3p: I wouldn't do it in million dollar homes, I would imagine that the property taxes on a reasonable place is less than a working poor family pays in rent. On my 210k rental property the property taxes are $1,300 a year. I just think it would be a fun and unique way of helping people.

A similar way lawyers are helping people is telling families to refuse to move out of their homes unless the bank can prove the bank owns it. The paperwork on mortgages being sold, resold, bundled and whatnot is such a clusterfark, lots of times they can't produce it. If you tack on your idea to that, there might be a lot of families helped out.

It is kinda funny, I am doing pretty well in life so I have a lot to lose but were I in a different place I might be tempted to stop paying my mortgage. I know people who haven't paid for almost 2 years and the eviction process is just starting due to the huge amount of foreclosures the banks are dealing with. One person I know of through a mutual friend has been saving their mortgage payment and have a pretty hefty nest egg. They plan to rent for 5 years and then they are pretty sure someone will give them another mortgage, seven at most considering they will be able to put 20% down due in large part to not having a mortgage to pay for the last couple years.

It is a risky play but it will be a nice score if it works out for them and I doubt there will be another time where something like this could work.

gshepnyc:topcon: gshepnyc: pute kisses like a man: wow. 7 years for adverse possession in florida? that's a little crazy.

it's 10 or 30 years in louisiana (good faith with just title in 10 years, 30 years w/o title or in bad faith) (we also call it acquisitive prescription. an elegant term for a more civilized age).

I think 30 years is too long. Why should useful property be off-limits for a generation? Why should anyone who can go anywhere near that long without exercising any meaningful use of property just keep it?

Seems like the real squatter in cases like this is the owner who purporta to own land he doesn't use and doesn't set foot on for years on end.

Whose opinion is it that the land isn't being used in a useful fashion? I could own 500 acres of prime vacant wooded land. Maybe I enjoy preserving wildlife. Maybe I hunt on it once a year. Maybe I plan on subdividing it in 20 years to pay for my retirement when house prices go up again (in theory.)

These things aren't for you to decide, it's for the owner of the land to decide.

It's a house. It's meant to be lived in by people. Don't be absurd. If you own more land than you need for yourself and your family to live, you are a burden on society that has to deal with people who don't have a home or who don't have enough. You can't justify being a glutton, sorry.

ArcadianRefugee:jst3p: EVERYBODY PANIC: liam76: Can he get the power/water tunred on?

If not is he allowed to live there?

Quick answer: Yes. I know several Adverse Possession folks. They do it within existing law. Some eventually win the house, some don't. File the appropriate paperwork with the county, move in, andhave the utilities turned on by using the form with which you AP's the house. Easy. Lawful. Every state has a different system, but it can be domne anywhere in the US or in any former British colony.

If I had sustainable investment income and no family I think it would be fun to attempt to gain title to homes in this fashion and if successful sell it to a "working poor" family for a fraction of its value and move on to the next one.

Why? They'd just sell it in turn, if they had any sense. Otherwise, "working poor" becomes "completely broke" when they have to start paying the taxes on the place.

You ask why? Here's just one answer: If nobody maintains a home in a good neighborhood, it falls apart, depressing the entire neighborhood's property values. Wait, here's a second reason: If good people don't take possession and maintainthe place, real hellions will move in and destroy the place. Summation: Society is best served if homes are kept in good repair, and Adverse Possession exists mostly for the many reasons it serves society so well.

abhorrent1:jst3p: If I had sustainable investment income and no family I think it would be fun to attempt to gain title to homes in this fashion and if successful sell it to a "working poor" family for a fraction of its value and move on to the next one.

How to you suppose a "working poor" family is going to pay the annual taxes, upkeep and utility bills for a house that size?

DarthBart:Too_many_Brians: Hmmm. I'm in Florida and poor, maybe today I will go house hunting.

There's dozens of houses in my neighborhood that have been empty for at least 2 years.

Of course, not a single one of them have an ounce of anything that was made of copper left in them.

/The wife and I went to look at a house the other day that not only the regular stuff (AC, pool pumps, and well aerator equipment) stripped, but the copper thieves also took the time to pull the well pump out of the ground and steal it too.

Yeah, I was thinking about that as well. The other thing for me would be mold and mildew from an abandoned house here on the west coast of Florida and the humidity.

Also, the back taxes. You are still liable for those right away, so if you get booted after a couple of months then you lose it all.

EVERYBODY PANIC:Correction: Bank of America does not own the property, and cannot set foot on the AP property until awarded the property at the end of the foreclosure process. The abandoned home is still in the name of the original purchaser, and only the original purchaser can have anybody evicted.

Adverse possession is a bit more complex than that. Generally you have to live somewhere "openly and notoriously", Treat the property as if you own it (such as by paying taxes and doing upkeep on it), have a "claim of right" (ie some reason, even if mistaken, to believe it belongs to you), and do so continously for somewhere between 10 and 20 years. Now that said, I fully expect to see a whole damn lot of AP cases come out of this foreclosure mess. Have a friend who jumped through every hoop BOA asked her to try to get a mortgage modification, but because of paperwork snafus BOA first scheduled the house for sale before they'd actually legally foreclosed on it, and then foreclosed, but never evicted her (she left on her own ) and the house is now sitting empty, and she's still getting the property tax and utility assessments for it, two years later. She's very tempted to simply move back in and see what happens. I suspect nothing will for many many years by which time she might well have an AP claim

lennavan:ArcadianRefugee: Why? They'd just sell it in turn, if they had any sense. Otherwise, "working poor" becomes "completely broke" when they have to start paying the taxes on the place.

Presumably a working poor family is currently paying rent somewhere. If he sold it to them for $1, their monthly payments might actually go down. I might recommend a different way of picking on jst3p:

Wasn't actually picking on him. And you can go ahead and sell the home for $1, but the land itself will still be assessed at whatever it's value is, which I imagine is a shiatload in that sort of neighborhood.

"This is a very upsetting thing," said next door neighbor Lyn Houston. "Last week, I went to the Bank of America and asked to see the person in charge of mortgages. I told them, 'I am prepared to buy this house.' They haven't even called me back."

I wonder what first aroused suspicion that this guy didn't belong there?

a Brazilian national

Ah. Guess he doesn't look like he's supposed to.

Guess what? It's none of your farking business. It's THEIR property. They don't HAVE to sell it to you any more than they HAVE to evict this guy.

Houston said she noticed the lights came on at the home right around Christmas.She knocked on the door recently and heard people rustling about, but no one came to the door, she said. At night, the front door's carriage lights are on but nothing else can be seen.

Such a nosey biatch, isn't she?

It's just aggravating, she said, considering how hard she worked to be able to afford a house in the neighborhood.

Once again, the rich are jealous of how easy the poor have it. How about minding your own farking business and enjoying your life?

"We're all going crazy, trying to figure out what to do," she said. "It's unbelievable that it can be done. Plus, if they've got the balls to break in the house, what's to prevent them from coming over here?

Quick answer: Yes. I know several Adverse Possession folks. They do it within existing law. Some eventually win the house, some don't. File the appropriate paperwork with the county, move in, andhave the utilities turned on by using the form with which you AP's the house. Easy. Lawful. Every state has a different system, but it can be domne anywhere in the US or in any former British colony.

Thanks, i thought by "paperwork" inthe article they meant a print out of the law or something.

jst3p:EVERYBODY PANIC: groppet: So while he is squatting does he have to pay the property taxes? And if he leaves can they just board up the place to prevent him from getting back in?

In Florida, an adverse possessor must file a particular form with the county, occupy the dwelling, pay all taxes and HOA dues where applicable, and make visible improvements over the course of 7 years. If the form is filled out correctly and filed, it is not considered by law to be squatting.

How do you gain access without "breaking in" and what makes a property abandoned and thus eligible for filing the paperwork?

As an adverse possessor, you go to the county, file the form, and then you are legally required to maintain and 'improve' the property, which includes changing the locks. VTW: The form is called DR452:

pag1107:Eventually the unwieldy, behemoth BofA will figure out he's in there and have him removed

It could be that they know he is there and don't care yet because he is what keeps the pipes from being ripped from the walls. I wonder if they can wait until the 11th hour then act to convict him, when they are ready to deal with the property.

jst3p:pag1107: Eventually the unwieldy, behemoth BofA will figure out he's in there and have him removed

It could be that they know he is there and don't care yet because he is what keeps the pipes from being ripped from the walls. I wonder if they can wait until the 11th hour then act to convictevict him, when they are ready to deal with the property.

topcon:gshepnyc: topcon: gshepnyc: pute kisses like a man: wow. 7 years for adverse possession in florida? that's a little crazy.

it's 10 or 30 years in louisiana (good faith with just title in 10 years, 30 years w/o title or in bad faith) (we also call it acquisitive prescription. an elegant term for a more civilized age).

I think 30 years is too long. Why should useful property be off-limits for a generation? Why should anyone who can go anywhere near that long without exercising any meaningful use of property just keep it?

Seems like the real squatter in cases like this is the owner who purporta to own land he doesn't use and doesn't set foot on for years on end.

Whose opinion is it that the land isn't being used in a useful fashion? I could own 500 acres of prime vacant wooded land. Maybe I enjoy preserving wildlife. Maybe I hunt on it once a year. Maybe I plan on subdividing it in 20 years to pay for my retirement when house prices go up again (in theory.)

These things aren't for you to decide, it's for the owner of the land to decide.

It's a house. It's meant to be lived in by people. Don't be absurd. If you own more land than you need for yourself and your family to live, you are a burden on society that has to deal with people who don't have a home or who don't have enough. You can't justify being a glutton, sorry.

Oh, landowners are gluttons and a drag on society now?

That's some neat logic, Connor. See where that gets you in life.

See how neatly you try to tailor facts of a case to fit your overall ideology? I'm sure you think you are impressive. You aren't. "where that gets you in life" indicates that it soothes you to imagine that people who disagree with you are failures at living. Where I am in life: I have an office overlooking Midtown Manhattan, a very comfortable apartment (that I've never abandoned for 7 years) and I do very well, thank you.

Rich Cream:EVERYBODY PANIC: An abandoned property can be gained via adverse possession in every state. Florida has a form you fill out and file with the county. Between the time of abandonment and the time a court awards the property back to the mortgage company, AP is lawful and winnable. Tell me, who owns the property? The answer is that it is in the name of the guy who ditched it, and not the bank. The "person of title" (former owner) can have the guy evicted, butr never bothers to do so. The bank has no rights to the property until the courts award the property to the bank, which takes a couple of years right now.

OK. Key word will be "abandonment". Likely not the case, just waiting for processing.

If the owner moves out and stops paying his mortgage, that's abandonment. The bank must file for a bankruptcy and get a judge to award them the property. That can take up to three years. An AP'er can move in file the paperwork, fulfull the terms of AP, and take it to court, fight the bank and sometimes win.

FWIW, much of the actual application of adverse possession deals with boundary questios and disputes.

Say you've got an established fence line with your neighbor. It's been "yours" for as long as anyone remembers, since you bought, since they bought. You've taken care of it, improved it, started a garden on it, maybe built a shed.

Now a new guy buys the property next door. He claims that the fence is in the wrong spot and he really owns 10 feet of "your" property.

How do you settle it? Maybe lots of surveys, looking for geographical markers, digging through old records, etc. Those may reveal conflicting info, especially old surveys.

But adverse possession settles it pretty easily. If you've been treating it like it's yours, it's yours.

EVERYBODY PANIC:jst3p: EVERYBODY PANIC: groppet: So while he is squatting does he have to pay the property taxes? And if he leaves can they just board up the place to prevent him from getting back in?

In Florida, an adverse possessor must file a particular form with the county, occupy the dwelling, pay all taxes and HOA dues where applicable, and make visible improvements over the course of 7 years. If the form is filled out correctly and filed, it is not considered by law to be squatting.

How do you gain access without "breaking in" and what makes a property abandoned and thus eligible for filing the paperwork?

As an adverse possessor, you go to the county, file the form, and then you are legally required to maintain and 'improve' the property, which includes changing the locks. VTW: The form is called DR452: [img14.imageshack.us image 784x350]

So let me get this straight. If I see a house in Florida that no one shows up to every night and there is no furniture in I can fill out that form and then call a locksmith to let me in and change the locks? Can I then use that address to file for food stamps and other public assistance?

NightOwl2255:EVERYBODY PANIC: Correction: Bank of America does not own the property, and cannot set foot on the AP property until awarded the property at the end of the foreclosure process. The abandoned home is still in the name of the original purchaser, and only the original purchaser can have anybody evicted.

Wrong. I mean like, really, really wrong.BOA has been awarded ownership and are on the deed as the owners.

You are correct. It has already been awarded to BOA. Guy shoulda moved quicker and stood his ground. One person I know is standing ground after the sale, but will propbably have a sheriff come a-knocking. At this point, and in this particular cae, you are perfectly correct. This property belongs to the bank now. [I was speakin of AP in general terms]

i know that neighborhood...they are probably more upset that someone is 'stealing' a house and they didn't think of it first. they probably have stolen more money than a thousand of burglars in the county.

bikerific:FWIW, much of the actual application of adverse possession deals with boundary questios and disputes.

Say you've got an established fence line with your neighbor. It's been "yours" for as long as anyone remembers, since you bought, since they bought. You've taken care of it, improved it, started a garden on it, maybe built a shed.

Now a new guy buys the property next door. He claims that the fence is in the wrong spot and he really owns 10 feet of "your" property.

How do you settle it? Maybe lots of surveys, looking for geographical markers, digging through old records, etc. Those may reveal conflicting info, especially old surveys.

But adverse possession settles it pretty easily. If you've been treating it like it's yours, it's yours.

If you are juiced in with the local politicians you can steal land from your neighbors too:

Adverse possession doesn't work anything like the article, or previous articles like this, would have you to believe.

There's a reason why you can find several articles about squatters like this one, but never any followup articles saying "Victory! Man successfully takes possession of upscale $2 million house in the Mr. Monopoly Man Pennybags Golf and Country Club!"

The ones who I know that have won the homes outright are smarter, lay low, never give interviews, do it by the book, understand the law and fight it in court.

rufus-t-firefly:deanis: HotWingConspiracy: It's just aggravating, she said, considering how hard she worked to be able to afford a house in the neighborhood.

I support him just to spite this snooty coont. I might send him a pizza.

How is she being snooty? saying that you worked hard to earn something? tough farking crowd around here.

To start with, she was suspicious of this "Brazilian national" living in this house, assuming he didn't belong there.

Then, she's pissed that BoA won't talk to her about buying the house so she can throw the guy out.

Fark her. Maybe she should just worry about her own business and stop sticking her nose where it doesn't belong.

If somebody wants to buy the home, why doesn't Bank of America let them buy the home? That's, literally, money in the bank. How is this a rich versus poor or (more ludicriously) a white versus brown argument??!