Comments on: O’Donnell Touches a Numb Nervehttp://www.nine-moons.com/?p=725
Tue, 18 Nov 2014 23:01:54 +0000hourly1http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.1By: Jeremiah Jhttp://www.nine-moons.com/?p=725&cpage=1#comment-35031
Jeremiah JWed, 19 Dec 2007 22:29:00 +0000http://www.nine-moons.com/2007/12/17/odonnell-touches-a-numb-nerve/#comment-35031I was taken aback by O'Donnell mainly because he seems so unhinged. He's just raving. When the raving is about you (or us), in public, within respected media institutions, it can be a bit scary, I think. When the attacks come in anti-Mormon literature passed out in evangelical churches, it's less threatening because people are being sneaky about it.
Cheryl: “…nobody thinks to question Catholic Theology when half their clergy turn out to be child molesters?”
I know for a fact that people have and do question Catholicism, Catholic theology, Catholic policy on celibacy, etc. in general, and specifically because of the abuse scandal. Why is there this urge to see every slight as some widespeard pattern of abuse in society's treatment of Mormons? O'Donnell's tirade was nonsense, and many non-Mormons saw his rant for what it was. But I don't think many people (except Hugh Hewitt, of course) will buy into the paranoid notion that O'Donnell is just one part of society's drive to attack Mormon religious people but no other religious people.
CJ: "when you realize that your church’s history is nearly impossible to explain?"
I don't think it's impossible to explain. It may be very hard to *believe* the first time to hear it, but when you hear the story told in a serious way it's not easy to reject either. Hitchens and O'Donnell probably have fine, glib answers to explain the number of witness to key events of the Restoration, but that's because they're committed themselves to opposing Mormonism. This thing was not done in a corner, nor did Mormonism come purely out of Joseph Smith's head. There were a multitude of sober-minded participants who didn't and don't bear the marks of fanaticism and obscurantism.I was taken aback by O’Donnell mainly because he seems so unhinged. He’s just raving. When the raving is about you (or us), in public, within respected media institutions, it can be a bit scary, I think. When the attacks come in anti-Mormon literature passed out in evangelical churches, it’s less threatening because people are being sneaky about it.

Cheryl: “…nobody thinks to question Catholic Theology when half their clergy turn out to be child molesters?”

I know for a fact that people have and do question Catholicism, Catholic theology, Catholic policy on celibacy, etc. in general, and specifically because of the abuse scandal. Why is there this urge to see every slight as some widespeard pattern of abuse in society’s treatment of Mormons? O’Donnell’s tirade was nonsense, and many non-Mormons saw his rant for what it was. But I don’t think many people (except Hugh Hewitt, of course) will buy into the paranoid notion that O’Donnell is just one part of society’s drive to attack Mormon religious people but no other religious people.

CJ: “when you realize that your church’s history is nearly impossible to explain?”

I don’t think it’s impossible to explain. It may be very hard to *believe* the first time to hear it, but when you hear the story told in a serious way it’s not easy to reject either. Hitchens and O’Donnell probably have fine, glib answers to explain the number of witness to key events of the Restoration, but that’s because they’re committed themselves to opposing Mormonism. This thing was not done in a corner, nor did Mormonism come purely out of Joseph Smith’s head. There were a multitude of sober-minded participants who didn’t and don’t bear the marks of fanaticism and obscurantism.

]]>By: Shannyhttp://www.nine-moons.com/?p=725&cpage=1#comment-34945
ShannyWed, 19 Dec 2007 01:32:13 +0000http://www.nine-moons.com/2007/12/17/odonnell-touches-a-numb-nerve/#comment-34945The thing about the Catholics is that the Protestants don't like them either.
But I wholeheartedly agree that other denominations couldn't hold up to the same scrutiny.
I think the anti comments that bother me the most are the ones which have the potential to reach the greatest number of people.
However, while satan is at work, so is Heavenly Father. We just need to keep our eyes, ears and when need be, our mouths open, in order to do our bit.
And one last thing....I think we need to give people a little more credit. I think the majority of people recognise that an anti-mormon person may not be the best source for information on Mormons. True, they may be influenced by the comments but all of that would be undone in an instant upon meeting and speaking with a member.The thing about the Catholics is that the Protestants don’t like them either.

But I wholeheartedly agree that other denominations couldn’t hold up to the same scrutiny.

I think the anti comments that bother me the most are the ones which have the potential to reach the greatest number of people.

However, while satan is at work, so is Heavenly Father. We just need to keep our eyes, ears and when need be, our mouths open, in order to do our bit.

And one last thing….I think we need to give people a little more credit. I think the majority of people recognise that an anti-mormon person may not be the best source for information on Mormons. True, they may be influenced by the comments but all of that would be undone in an instant upon meeting and speaking with a member.

]]>By: Lamontehttp://www.nine-moons.com/?p=725&cpage=1#comment-34886
LamonteTue, 18 Dec 2007 12:26:55 +0000http://www.nine-moons.com/2007/12/17/odonnell-touches-a-numb-nerve/#comment-34886CJ - I like what MCQ said. But I also remember when I used to commute more than 125 miles round trip to work everyday. I guess it was a form a masochism that I would turn on the local Christian radio station every afternoon on my way home to listen to "The Bible Answer Man." Inevitably he would get around to trashing the Mormons in one way or another with his phony soft voice and I would be livid by the time I got home. I also remember, as I've stated before on this blog, working a summer job with an evangelical Christian who would make subtle comments directed at some of our religious beliefs. In both cases it caused me to search the scriptures more diligently and attempt to understand our theology better.
In terms of a face to face confrontation (my summer work mate was not outwardly belligerant, just subtley annoying) I remember doing a neighborhood "missionary blitz" with all the missionaries from our district and encountering a group of evangelicals who were all engaged in helping one of their friends move (sound familiar?). It seemed as though they were waiting for us as they all went into the house and got their Bibles and then started a debate. At the end of the discussion I challenged them to seek the truth and when they learned that the things they had been told about our church were false, they might consider the motivation of the one who told them that false information. I was somewhat surprised at how calm I was in this situation.CJ – I like what MCQ said. But I also remember when I used to commute more than 125 miles round trip to work everyday. I guess it was a form a masochism that I would turn on the local Christian radio station every afternoon on my way home to listen to “The Bible Answer Man.” Inevitably he would get around to trashing the Mormons in one way or another with his phony soft voice and I would be livid by the time I got home. I also remember, as I’ve stated before on this blog, working a summer job with an evangelical Christian who would make subtle comments directed at some of our religious beliefs. In both cases it caused me to search the scriptures more diligently and attempt to understand our theology better.

In terms of a face to face confrontation (my summer work mate was not outwardly belligerant, just subtley annoying) I remember doing a neighborhood “missionary blitz” with all the missionaries from our district and encountering a group of evangelicals who were all engaged in helping one of their friends move (sound familiar?). It seemed as though they were waiting for us as they all went into the house and got their Bibles and then started a debate. At the end of the discussion I challenged them to seek the truth and when they learned that the things they had been told about our church were false, they might consider the motivation of the one who told them that false information. I was somewhat surprised at how calm I was in this situation.

]]>By: MCQhttp://www.nine-moons.com/?p=725&cpage=1#comment-34803
MCQTue, 18 Dec 2007 07:23:33 +0000http://www.nine-moons.com/2007/12/17/odonnell-touches-a-numb-nerve/#comment-34803<blockquote>What do you do when in spite of your unwavering conviction through real spiritual experiences, you realize that your church's history is nearly impossible to explain ? </blockquote>
It's not impossible. Just ask Richard Bushman. You just have to take a deep breath and deal with one issue at a time. With a guy like O'Donnell, it seems impossible because he comes at you with so much all at once. Take his distortions one at a time and they all fall apart under scrutiny. His demeanor exposes him as a demagogue, and he ends up causing people to have sympathy for us rather than buy into what he says. Think about it, when have you ever believed a word from anyone who behaved like that?

What do you do when in spite of your unwavering conviction through real spiritual experiences, you realize that your church’s history is nearly impossible to explain ?

It’s not impossible. Just ask Richard Bushman. You just have to take a deep breath and deal with one issue at a time. With a guy like O’Donnell, it seems impossible because he comes at you with so much all at once. Take his distortions one at a time and they all fall apart under scrutiny. His demeanor exposes him as a demagogue, and he ends up causing people to have sympathy for us rather than buy into what he says. Think about it, when have you ever believed a word from anyone who behaved like that?

]]>By: annegbhttp://www.nine-moons.com/?p=725&cpage=1#comment-34738
annegbTue, 18 Dec 2007 06:18:01 +0000http://www.nine-moons.com/2007/12/17/odonnell-touches-a-numb-nerve/#comment-34738Like you, there are some critics who bother me more than others. I can't explain why.
I can't recall a time when somebody said something that I felt challenged my faith. Oh, yeah, it was in Sunday School last week when my annoying neighbor bothered me by a comment she made.
But I don't think I've ever been called on to defend the faith. Maybe I am now and I'm failing that call. Geez, so much to think about.
If somebody started spouting some of the crap they spout about us, say, on the plane, I'd say, "that's crap. You don't know what the hell you're talking about."
I'm not joking, that's probably what I'd say. It's not the right thing, obviously, but there you have it.
I'm actually wishing Mitt hadn't run for president because I'm getting so mad at the those who throw cheap shots in ignorance.Like you, there are some critics who bother me more than others. I can’t explain why.

I can’t recall a time when somebody said something that I felt challenged my faith. Oh, yeah, it was in Sunday School last week when my annoying neighbor bothered me by a comment she made.

But I don’t think I’ve ever been called on to defend the faith. Maybe I am now and I’m failing that call. Geez, so much to think about.

If somebody started spouting some of the crap they spout about us, say, on the plane, I’d say, “that’s crap. You don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.”

I’m not joking, that’s probably what I’d say. It’s not the right thing, obviously, but there you have it.

I’m actually wishing Mitt hadn’t run for president because I’m getting so mad at the those who throw cheap shots in ignorance.

]]>By: annegbhttp://www.nine-moons.com/?p=725&cpage=1#comment-34737
annegbTue, 18 Dec 2007 06:16:42 +0000http://www.nine-moons.com/2007/12/17/odonnell-touches-a-numb-nerve/#comment-34737Like you, there are some critics who bother me more than others. I can't explain why.
I can't recall a time when somebody said something that I felt challenged my faith. Oh, yeah, it was in Sunday School last week when my annoying neighbor bothered me by a comment she made.
But I don't think I've ever been called on to defend the faith. Maybe I am now and I'm failing that call. Geez, so much to think about.
If somebody started spouting some of the crap they spout about us, say, on the plane, I'd say, "that's crap. You don't know what the hell you're talking about."
I'm not joking, that's probably what I'd say. It's not the right thing, obviously, but there you have it.
I'm actually wishing Mitt hadn't run for president because I'm getting so mad at the those who throw cheap shots in ignorance.Like you, there are some critics who bother me more than others. I can’t explain why.

I can’t recall a time when somebody said something that I felt challenged my faith. Oh, yeah, it was in Sunday School last week when my annoying neighbor bothered me by a comment she made.

But I don’t think I’ve ever been called on to defend the faith. Maybe I am now and I’m failing that call. Geez, so much to think about.

If somebody started spouting some of the crap they spout about us, say, on the plane, I’d say, “that’s crap. You don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.”

I’m not joking, that’s probably what I’d say. It’s not the right thing, obviously, but there you have it.

I’m actually wishing Mitt hadn’t run for president because I’m getting so mad at the those who throw cheap shots in ignorance.

]]>By: Phouchghttp://www.nine-moons.com/?p=725&cpage=1#comment-34643
PhouchgTue, 18 Dec 2007 04:08:51 +0000http://www.nine-moons.com/2007/12/17/odonnell-touches-a-numb-nerve/#comment-34643"...nobody thinks to question Catholic Theology when half their clergy turn out to be child molesters?"
What does one thing have to do with the other?
"...sorry to the Catholics, I’m not trying to single you out!"
actually you are.
On behalf of my Catholic extended family, this LDS guy respectfully disagrees with your points.“…nobody thinks to question Catholic Theology when half their clergy turn out to be child molesters?”

]]>By: M to tha Ohttp://www.nine-moons.com/?p=725&cpage=1#comment-34598
M to tha OTue, 18 Dec 2007 03:20:16 +0000http://www.nine-moons.com/2007/12/17/odonnell-touches-a-numb-nerve/#comment-34598Skinheads Against Racial Prejudice (SHARP) is a great place to start learning about true skinhead origins and not the jerks who co-opted the look.
People have a tendency to think that if something is referenced enough in pop culture it must be true. Hmm, remarkably similar situation to the stereotypes proliferated about the Mo's, no?Skinheads Against Racial Prejudice (SHARP) is a great place to start learning about true skinhead origins and not the jerks who co-opted the look.
People have a tendency to think that if something is referenced enough in pop culture it must be true. Hmm, remarkably similar situation to the stereotypes proliferated about the Mo’s, no?
]]>By: cj douglasshttp://www.nine-moons.com/?p=725&cpage=1#comment-34302
cj douglassMon, 17 Dec 2007 22:17:18 +0000http://www.nine-moons.com/2007/12/17/odonnell-touches-a-numb-nerve/#comment-34302Geoff,
My point was that the nerve has been numb in the past (it's never bothered me that much). Now, for some reason, its starting to bother me. Thus the once numb nerve regains some feeling....Geoff,
My point was that the nerve has been numb in the past (it’s never bothered me that much). Now, for some reason, its starting to bother me. Thus the once numb nerve regains some feeling….
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