Republicans agreed to raise taxes on the wealthy if Democrats would cut spending in a proportional fashion, but Obama refused to do so, putting the onus on Congressional Democrats to identify where cuts (always unpopular when it comes to specifics) would be made, and they failed to do so.

The Obama Administration has initiated an immediate propaganda campaign to whitewash this new cluster-fuck, "celebrating" a "tentative agreement" by Republicans to raise taxes on the wealthy -- saying they never before would have agreed to it, which is a blatant lie because that was specifically on the table the last time he played hostage-holding terrorist chicken with the U.S. economy and walked away from the negotiating table in an arrogant, childish huff, causing our bond rating to be downgraded globally and stifling the nascent recovery.

Instead of celebrating the fact that Republicans are being somewhat adult-like and making the necessary concessions on their side, we should be ruthlessly chastising our infantile President and Congressional Democrats for refusing to hold up their end and cut spending.

Now taxes will immediately be raised on nearly all Americans (to the tune of thousands of dollars a year) and substantial spending cuts are mandated by law, intended to FORCE the crack-whore-with-a-stolen-credit-card-in-chief to ease the fuck up on the deficit spending._________________

patrix_neo wrote:

The human thought: I cannot win.
The ratbrain in me : I can only go forward and that's it.

Now taxes will immediately be raised on nearly all Americans (to the tune of thousands of dollars a year) and substantial spending cuts are mandated by law, intended to FORCE the crack-whore-with-a-stolen-credit-card-in-chief to ease the fuck up on the deficit spending.

The one thing I have determined from this whole pathetic oneupmanship spanning quite a few elections is that the Republicans are more interested in protecting the taxbreaks of the rich at the expense of a tax rise on ordinary Americans.

Republicans are voting for a rise on most people.

Its one thing to utilise the power of the purse to ensure the President is kept in check, but it is completely different to jepardize the welfare of the USA's economy and everyday hardworking Americans to ensure those who fund their seats in the Senate keep their wealth.

When Bush brough in these Tax cuts it was with a majority in both the Senate and the House for the Republican Party, With the Whitehouse and the two houses under one political parties control they couldn't even come up with a decent means to wean the American people & economy off what was needed to boost the economy at the time,
Since then the Republicans, via Congress, have been more interested in protecting the rich & postponing this cliff hoping that the economy would pick up so increased tax returns would mean a softer way out for their benefactors could be negotiated. It didn't

The one thing I have determined from this whole pathetic oneupmanship spanning quite a few elections is that the Republicans are more interested in protecting the taxbreaks of the rich at the expense of a tax rise on ordinary Americans.

Rather than "oneupsmanship", I think you mean "the propaganda hose to which my lips are attached".

eeyrjmr wrote:

Republicans are voting for a rise on most people.

What the fuck are you talking about? Republicans aren't voting for tax increases. The bottom line is that Republicans want the deficit spending brought under control mostly by spending cuts, and Democrats want to use it as an excuse to raise taxes, increasing the size of our bloated, inefficient, money-wasting, fraud-ridden government even more.

eeyrjmr wrote:

Its one thing to utilise the power of the purse to ensure the President is kept in check, but it is completely different to jepardize the welfare of the USA's economy and everyday hardworking Americans to ensure those who fund their seats in the Senate keep their wealth.

It's the President and Democratic Legislators who are playing chicken with the economy, and it has been since the beginning. Obama is the first President I am aware of who managed to not even get a budget passed one year. He and the (at the time) Democrat-run Congress bloated deficit spending to an unheard-of, insane, completely unjustifiable 40% of the budget. He has refused anything other than token or fake spending cuts, and has walked away from the negotiating table repeatedly.

His latest, blatant lie is to send Democrats into the end-of-year negotiations with the position that they want progressive tax increaes (i.e. "tax increases on the 'rich'"), and in exchange, they will agree to "talk about" spending cuts this coming year. What a load of bullshit. Do you think any responsible person would agree to that? Fuck no. And neither did the Democrats. They did this on purpose, because THEY are the ones playing chicken with the economy.

They're playing head games with their moron followers, lying to them, telling them that it's the Republicans who don't want to play ball, when all along it's been them. What's shocking -- truly shocking -- is how many naive idiots out there believe them, despite the facts.

eeyrjmr wrote:

Since then the Republicans, via Congress, have been more interested in protecting the rich & postponing this cliff hoping that the economy would pick up so increased tax returns would mean a softer way out for their benefactors could be negotiated. It didn't

I've got news for you, Dorothy: Obama and the Democrats have the same kind of "benefactors" as the Republicans. On the one hand it might be the Aerospace Industry, Petroleum Industry, and Investment Brokers, and on the other it might be the Auto Industry, Pharmaceutical & Medical Devices Industry, and Mortgage lenders, but our National politicians are practically all whores, and Obama is the biggest whore ever to stand on that street corner at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. NW. He didn't get a billion dollars in campaign money from "hard working Americans", and he doesn't even have a mandate from half the voters.

Secondly, you're a propaganda victim. Republicans long ago indicated they would accept tax increases on the wealthy in exchange for substantial spending cuts. The only people who don't know this are the ass-puppets who get their information exclusively from White House propaganda outlets. It is Democrats who have fucked this up, by refusing to cut spending. Now it's going to be forced on them, along with across-the-board tax increases. It isn't "Republicans voting for" this; this was arranged by a bi-partisan committee last year, to force the two parties to compromise, and it's the Democrats who have refused to compromise. Now you're being lied to about what they did and why it happened, and you believe it without even taking the time to reason out what's going on for yourself._________________

patrix_neo wrote:

The human thought: I cannot win.
The ratbrain in me : I can only go forward and that's it.

Which republicans wanted to cut military spending? All I ever hear is they want to cut Medicare and social security._________________There is, a not-born, a not-become, a not-made, a not-compounded. If that unborn, not-become, not-made, not-compounded were not, there would be no escape from this here that is born, become, made and compounded. - Gautama Siddharta

as far as I know,none... Medicare is a massive drain, but the military budget is also very large. Both should be scalped a bit rather than one or the other.

Yes the Senate finally agreed on the tax cuts so the Republicans are not hurting most people as much as their long standing stance was going to. They however failed to address the debt ceiling which was due to be hit now but was pushed out by a couple of months via cooking the books. Instead elected to postpone spending cuts for 2months, just in time for the debt ceiling to be hit.

Well done Republican'ts now instead of debating one massive problem in 2months there will be two massive problems; the debt ceiling and the spending cuts.

as far as I know,none... Medicare is a massive drain, but the military budget is also very large. Both should be scalped a bit rather than one or the other.

Wrong. Medicare shouldn't be scalped at all, because it's supposed to be a separate trust, firewalled from just this sort of crack-whore pocket-picking. Nevertheless, as we all know, Obama's already got plans to burgle nearly $800 billion from it to pay for Obamacare.

The cuts and tax increases included in the fiscal cliff were agreed to by both Republicans and Democrats and signed into law by Barack "I will never raise taxes on people earning less than $250K" Obama. Way to go, Democrats. You managed to re-elect the crack-whore-in-chief, and in about two weeks, you're going to see the impact on your paycheck! (At least, the half or so of you who actually work for a living will.)

eeyrjmr wrote:

Yes the Senate finally agreed on the tax cuts so the Republicans are not hurting most people as much as their long standing stance was going to. They however failed to address the debt ceiling which was due to be hit now but was pushed out by a couple of months via cooking the books. Instead elected to postpone spending cuts for 2months, just in time for the debt ceiling to be hit.

Well done Republican'ts now instead of debating one massive problem in 2months there will be two massive problems; the debt ceiling and the spending cuts.

Wrong again, propaganda victim. The Republicans said all along they'd agree to tax increases on the wealthy if the Democrats would make serious spending cuts. Now, the Republicans are bending over backward, spelling their concessions out in detail. Meanwhile, the Administration and Congressional Democrats are still refusing to cut spending, and won't even agree to a general number. So, it is entirely the fault of Democrats -- the terrorist, hostage-taking, chicken-playing Democrats -- that we've gone over the cliff.

If you're smart, you'll re-do your personal budget to account for a few thousand dollars less right away. Be sure to send a letter of thanks to Chocolate Jesus the hopey change-maker._________________

patrix_neo wrote:

The human thought: I cannot win.
The ratbrain in me : I can only go forward and that's it.

here... this is how you cut the deficit to zero and make a true compromise.

the government brings in 5.6 trillion dollars a year, reliably. the deficit is 16.3 trillion. to zero that out, we need to pay 1.6 trillion a year for the next 10 years, not counting interest. let's just round that up to 1.8 trillion.

so now we're at 3.8 trillion in spending every year for the next 10 years. split that in half... 1.9 trillion to the house and 1.9 trillion to the senate. there are 100 senators, so tell each senator s/he gets to put 19 billion in any program s/he wants. there are 435 seats in the house, so divide their half by 435, so tell each rep that s/he gets to put 4.3 billion in any program s/he wants. force them to prioritize expenses.

here... this is how you cut the deficit to zero and make a true compromise.

the government brings in 5.6 trillion dollars a year, reliably. the deficit is 16.3 trillion. to zero that out, we need to pay 1.6 trillion a year for the next 10 years, not counting interest. let's just round that up to 1.8 trillion.

so now we're at 3.8 trillion in spending every year for the next 10 years. split that in half... 1.9 trillion to the house and 1.9 trillion to the senate. there are 100 senators, so tell each senator s/he gets to put 19 billion in any program s/he wants. there are 435 seats in the house, so divide their half by 435, so tell each rep that s/he gets to put 4.3 billion in any program s/he wants. force them to prioritize expenses.

Pay $2T/yr and I'll volunteer for the campaign effort._________________It is what it is out there. So whatever it is, it is.

Its the Replublican'ts inability to work with the whitehouse and the senate which is continually causing issues with the debt ceiling...

I expect in March that the rating to be generally cut to AA+

wait, democrats are spending way more money than we possibly have, and it's republicans fault for not letting democrats spend money we don't have? what a warped sense of blame you have...

So under Bush Jr with Republican'ts in the Whitehouse and both houses of congress during 2 wars and the worst financial crisis to hit the nation in a large number of years is obviously completely irrelevant when it comes to who is fucking up the country.

What about who the Republican'ts tabled as their presidential candidate... can't win with someone who rules out almost half of the nation

Unfortunately, the reality is that Democrats bear at least as much responsibility for the financial crisis as Republicans do (and that's being generous, considering they not only created the toxic assets that brought the economy down (massively expanding government-sponsored home mortgage lending programs), instituted the de-reguilation that prevented the risk from spreading (under Clinton, not Bush, who oh by the way was also responsible for the late 90s bubble that in general is what really causes this financial crisis), and were criminally negligent in their oversight responsibilities, loudly denied there was any housing bubble or any need for concern about accounting irregularities (at Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac, ACORN Housing Corp., etc.), even as both the Bush White House and even some Democrats (e.g. Obama) were raising the alarm that intervention was necessary.

Five years later, he said he was against pushing for home ownership the whole time. Meanwhile, the leftish propaganda zombies are all shambling around telling each other it's the fault of them Repubmicans. Yeah, dem Repubmicans.

That finger-pointing and blame-deflecting is not only a lie, it's not helping solve the problem the now. The problem now required financial stimulus and deficit reduction. Obama fucked up the first, by abusing the stimulus to fund pet projects and protect government jobs and programs, and it had little effect. We've also stolen trillions from foreign countries and out own citizens, though "quantitative easing", which essentially devalues existing currency to transfer that value to new (government-administered) currency. We had our chance to shock the economy back to life, and Obama fucked it up. No matter how much Democrats would like to keep "free money" flowing to their Obamaphone-grabbing, "Obama gonna put gas in my tank an' pay mah mo'gage!" voters, this country cannot go on living on debt, using the recession as an excuse. That's a recipe for certain financial dissolution. Look at Greece; it's not pretty. And, who's got the resources to bail us out? So, thanks to the ineptitude of the Obama Administration (and I hope that's all it is because I'd hate to think it was intentional, to further a leftist agenda), we're just going to have to limp our way through a decades-long recovery.

In the mean time, if we don't stop the bleeding, that will never happen. There is a reason Democrats got thrown out of Congress on their asses in 2010, and it's because they were spending money hand over fist, like crack-whores with stolen credit cards. That put us in a deadlock situation, where the people want the deficit brought under control, but there is contention over how much of that should be done through tax increases and how much through spending reductions. Democrats are waging a propaganda war, saying it's not them refusing to negotiate, it's the Republicans. The facts show otherwise. Obama has repeatedly played this terrorist game of chicken. He has repeatedly refused to cut spending as mandated by Congress. This is not even legal for him to do. He's the Executive, not the King. He didn't even get a budget approved one year. He has twice put the economy in a tailspin while they wait to see whether increased debt will be approved in spite of his refusal to reduce spending. We're on the verge of increasing the debt ceiling yet again, as we go through the fifth year of The Obama Economy -- Trillion-Dollar deficits, year after year. All that debt goes on your back, my back, our childrens' backs, and their childrens' backs. And yet, there are still people believing the shit that comes out of his mouth and his media-supported Ministry of Truth.

Republicans are not without blame at all. Oh, no. They talked the country into an apparently unnecessary war and funded it by dipping heavily into the debt bucket. But Obama's gone completely out of control, with an average deficit four times that of the average Bush deficit (which was bad enough). It's got to stop, and Democrats have got to stop deluding themselves and jacking off around the campfire. This government needs to stop refusing to cut spending. It hasn't even made a serious attempt at finding internal cost savings! And blaming Bush just isn't cutting it anymore.

Back in 2008, Obama the media ignored how Obama was actually going to fund all the goodies he was promising everybody, which amounted to about $800 Billion in new spending. Once the financial crisis hit, they finally asked him, and he said, "By identifying cost savings in other areas. I will go through the budget line by line and identify, and eliminate, under-performing programs." Well, he hasn't identified or eliminated shit, and all his spending has magically landed right in our wallets, in the form of debt we WILL have to pay eventually, in the form of tax increases. Maybe he doesn't want the blame for the tax increases, so he likes to just create debt. Later, somebody else can mandate the taxes necessary to clean up his debt mess.

But it's already starting to hit. I suppose that's okay, though, now that he's be re-elected and has "more flexibility". Congratulations, Democrats. You're driving the car off the cliff._________________

patrix_neo wrote:

The human thought: I cannot win.
The ratbrain in me : I can only go forward and that's it.

Last edited by Bones McCracker on Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:43 am; edited 1 time in total

Its the Replublican'ts inability to work with the whitehouse and the senate which is continually causing issues with the debt ceiling...

Yeah, because out of control spending has no impact on the NEED to raise the debt ceiling. Mindlessly raising the debt ceiling should result in the lowest possible score._________________It is what it is out there. So whatever it is, it is.