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VijayKumarSinha wrote:in the last couple of years there has been an explosion of economic relations between India and Canada and all the different political parties here are pushing for relations on all fronts. The newspaper here have some news about India on a daily basis. The recent trip of Canadian PM to India was one such event followed by the nuclear deal with Canada. A lot of these news Items are about Kashmir and Canadian concerns about Indian security. I think, many of these news Items need to be seen by jingos.

Ravi Karumanchiri wrote:The population of Canada is approaching 34 Million people, over 1 Million of whom descend from sub continental bloodlines. Given that Canada is an original G7 country with *enormous resources* and various pockets of highly-developed engineering and technological expertise, this represents a huge potential for bilateral relations to grow for the benefit of both Canada and India. I could go on and on, but my point is that proportionally, India has more popular exposure in Canadian society than it does south of the 49th parallel, and that therefore, inroads to improved relations between Canada and India may be more easily traversed than between India and the US. Moreover, since there is tremendous economic, academic and media integration between Canada and the United States, improving relations between Canada and India will spur improving relations between India and the United States – it’s a certainty.

Last edited by ramana on 18 Jan 2010 22:59, edited 1 time in total.
Reason:Added other countries to the title

A big question. Why do we need to talk with a dog when we can deal wit it's master ? Canada is irrelevant. It is a non entity and it is just too far away to be shipping any raw material to India or to be of much use really.

Yeah. On top of that, along with UK Stan, Soviet Canuckistan is the primoridal swamp and cess pit where anti India terror was historically incubated and sustained. Again, just like the UK, has the entire spectrum from Khalistani types ( the entire Kanishka episode and the perpetrators getting away because of the shanigans of the RMCP where the deleted a tape by "mistake" is a total disgrace and a coverup of the Canadian govt's historical support to those groups from getting exposed) to the Islamic terrorist types. It is not for nothing that "Kaneda" is the destination of choice for all sorts of shady types from Pakiland and other places.

Karma is a she dog. Kaneda will get it's just deserts for sure. It is only a question of time before the vipers it has reared and embraced to it's bosom an bite it , and bite it hard. Shandenfreude my friends, is sweet.

Canada had the third largest navy after WWII and saved Britain's bacon during the Battle of the Atlantic by running screens against U-2 boats. Canada was offered a permanent seat on the Security Council

Hi, I'd point out that Canada has been a major source of development assistance and aid for India. Don't forget that CANDU reactors made India's nuclear program possible - it's not like it was Indian genius that developed it all from scratch.

The main problem with Canada is that the Kaangress-style Liberal Party has used immigration and heavy 'big govt' spending as ploys to overcome the Anglo-French divide that had always hung like a Sword of Damocles over the country. Fearful of French secession, the Liberal Party since Trudeau have embarked on building up state programs to massive levels, and on drowning the country in immigration to both finance this spending and to demographically dilute the Anglo-French issue. This policy has led them to of course turn a blind eye to any illicit activities by such immigrant and refugee groups.

Anyway, the fact is that with Canada being smaller than the US but possessing similarly strong technical expertise, India is in a much better bargaining position for dealings with it.Canada needs to keep itself ahead economically, and with its longtime US economic partner on the downslide, Canada will have to strike out to forge new economic relationships, to keep itself moving forward. You should also remember that Canada is a natural resources and energy resources superpower. No country has such an abundance of energy resources as Canada - whether oil, coal, natural gas, or hydroelectric power.

To put this in further context, consider the words of Michael Wilson, Canadian Ambassador to the United States, in a speach in Cleveland, Ohio on 18 April 2008:

"Two-way trade crosses the Canada–U.S. border at the rate of $1.7 billion a day — well over a million dollars a minute... Trade with Canada supports some 7.1 million direct and indirect jobs across the U.S. That is, 1 in 25 American jobs depends on free and open trade with Canada. And upwards of 300,000 people a day, on average, travel across the border. As trade has expanded freely across the border, more and more industries, companies and their suppliers operate on both sides. Assembling the parts into a single finished car, for example, can involve 3, 4, 5 or more border crossings in various stages of manufacturing. This is the North American supply chain."

Canada is by far, the largest trading partner of the United States, with the two countries being the largest trading partners in the world. The *daily trade* (of goods only) between Canada and the United States is *larger than the annual trade between Canada and India*. I would guess that when services are factored in also, along with remittances of all the Canadians and Americans who work on the other side of the border, the bilateral economic flows are even greater. This notwithstanding, I am certain that Canadian businesses, employees, consumers and investors would warmly welcome greater bilateral trading relations with India. What's more; many saavy Indian business people, investors and consumers would find this worthwhile and profitable. There are four salient points that I'd like to underscore here:

First, there is much room for the growth of economic relations between India and Canada -- this can only benefit both countries.

Second, if the largest, most developed and advanced economy in the world -- the United States -- sees good deals in trade with Canada, India should be able to find opportunities in Canada also.

Third, one of the most high-leverage ways for Indian exporters to gain access to the American market, would be to supply warehouses and factories in Canada.

Fourth, for everyone to realize the benefits of greater economic relations between Canada and India, people in both countries need to keep an open mind, be curious about one another, look forward, and investigate the potential for valuable opportunities.

Canada was home to 69 of the 2000 corporations in the 2008 Forbes Global 2000 compilation of the world's largest companies, ranking the nation 5th globally.

Canada is one of the few developed nations that are net exporters of energy. Atlantic Canada has vast offshore deposits of natural gas, and large oil and gas resources are centred in Alberta. The immense Athabasca Oil Sands give Canada the world's second-largest oil reserves, behind Saudi Arabia. In Quebec, British Columbia, Newfoundland & Labrador, New Brunswick, Ontario, Manitoba, and Yukon, hydroelectricity is a cheap and clean source of renewable energy.

Canada is one of the world's most important suppliers of agricultural products, with the Canadian Prairies being one of the most important suppliers of wheat, canola, and other grains. Canada is the largest producer of zinc and uranium, and is an important global producer of many other natural resources, such as gold, nickel, aluminium, and lead.

The Canada – United States Free Trade Agreement (FTA) of 1988 eliminated tariffs between the two countries, while the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) expanded the free-trade zone to include Mexico in the 1990s.

Since 2001, Canada has maintained the best overall economic performance in the G8. The 2008 global financial crisis caused a recession, which could boost the country's unemployment rate to 10%. Despite the global recession, Canada's labour market is in need of hundreds of thousands of foreign workers according to the Canadian Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism.

In 2006, Canada exported to India a total of $692,872 Canadian dollars of military equipment and supplies, including: Naval/Mil. Equip worth $142,836; Misc. Equpment worth $550,000; and Software worth $78,000.

Canadian exports of military equipment and supplies to NATO countries during the same period totalled $177,738,976 (excluding sales to the United States), while Non-NATO countries on the AFCCL list totalled $125,376,403, and to 'other destinations' some $57,284,681 of Canadian-made military equipment and supplies were sold.

Source: http://www.international.gc.ca/controls ... e06-2.aspx NOTE: This report details all Canadian exports of military equipment and supplies during 2006, *excluding those destined for the United States* with which Canada has very deep, longstanding ties. Given the nature of the trading relationship between Canada and the United States, I would have to guess that at least some military goods exported from the United States, actually contain at least some Canadian-made components.

This document details the seminar notes prepared for 'The International Security Research and Outreach Programme, International Security Bureau' in May, 2009.

"ISROP’s mandate is to provide the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade Canada (DFAIT) with timely, high quality policy relevant research that will inform and support the development of Canada’s international security policy..."

From the Executive Summary, "The seminar covered a range of topics including the timing and context of the meeting, the impact of the Mumbai attack, the internal unrest in Pakistan, nuclear and strategic matters, Afghanistan and regional security, Kashmir, other bilateral relations, and the role to be played by outside actors."

SNAPSHOT

Bilateral relations between India and Pakistan are affected by a deficit in confidence and trust that make cooperation difficult, but trade between the two countries (via third countries) is significantly larger than official statistics suggest.

Post Mumbai, a future large-scale terrorist attack would place extraordinary pressure on the Indian government to react more forcefully.

Extremism in Pakistan has the potential to spill-over and de-stabilize India’s “communal fault-lines”.

Global movement towards nuclear disarmament will put pressure on both India and Pakistan to be seen as supporting the goal of eventual disarmament.

Standard deterrence / arms control models may not apply in South Asia because of the perceived asymmetric relationship between Pakistan and India.

Average military expenditures of India and Pakistan (as a percentage of GDP and in per capita terms) are relatively low, but “opportunity costs” of military spending in terms of public goods (e.g. health, education, infrastructure) may be a more useful barometer.

Approximately 90 percent of Pakistan’s Army and 70 percent of India’s Army are deployed along the countries’ common borders, rather than fighting against extremists.

Confidence-building measures (CBMs) in the South Asia context may require steps to be taken on both conventional and nuclear fronts.

Regional engagement through trade and job creation will create “vested interests” in regional security and stability.

A “neutral” Afghanistan could become an integral part of a regional framework.

“Outsiders”, including Canada, can contribute to regional reconciliation by encouraging dialogue and leveraging investments / interactions with the region to accomplish objectives beyond their stated aims.

Under the Canada -India Agreement for Scientific and Technological Cooperation, the two governments have agreed to foster joint activities aimed at generating new or expanded research and technology-based partnerships between the two countries (termed as Partnership Development Activities, PDA).

I agree with you that it is not for anyone else to question the domestic military deployments of any nation’s armed forces, and that the instance noted above is wrong-headed in the extreme. Such 'thinking' would seem to be “typical idiotic western nonsense”. This viewpoint in official Canada needs to be brought forward, so that clear-thinking people can subject it to scrutiny; not much of which is required to see how wrong-minded it is.

The point being: such mindsets in official Canada can be countered and corrected if this process engages enough clear-thinking Canadian citizens (over a million of whom descend from sub continental bloodlines).

Please note, I am the first to proclaim that much Canadian 'strategic thinking' has been polluted by Cold War mindsets that do not consider facts-on-the-ground nearly as much as it does 'towing-the-line'. There's a reason why "typical" is typical, and to make sense of 'nonsense', it behooves all of us to better understand the situation, so we can grapple with it.

It is Great, to see this thread up and running. First off, I couldn’t agree more with everything that Ravi and Sanjay have said.

Vina wrote:A big question. Why do we need to talk with a dog when we can deal wit it's master ?

Within a couple of years of good relations with Israel we now have, ever improving relations with U.S. and other western countries. If Canada is USA’s dog then so is.....And by that analogy how many other countries would have to be the dogs of America?

I will give you my analogy wrt to Canada-US: If, you want to hang out more with the koolest kid in the school yard, why not start by befriending a close friend of that koolest kid?

Vina wrote:Canada is irrelevant. It is a non entity and it is just too far away to be shipping any raw material to India or to be of much use really.

Clearly, a country on whose CANDU reactor designs our first nuclear reactors were built and whose nuclear fuel we used to create our first nukes can’t be irrelevant. Not to mention that the same country once again wants to start supplying nuclear fuel to us. Given our huge energy needs, it might not be a bad thing to befriend "the dog", which can provide us nuclear fuel.

Also, Canada already ships ASBESTOS to India. Asbestos, which is banned in western world, is shipped to Gujarat. What are we doing about that?

Canada has huge reservoirs of oil sands; After, it’s falling out with U.S.A on lumber trade issue they threatened to stop Canadian oil exports to U.S.A by saying that they can export them to emerging countries such as China and India instead. And, as per my madarsa knowledge there is one such thing called oil super tankers that can carry huge amount of crude oil to any part of the world. Once again, "the dog" is not too shabby.

More than anything else, I hate to break it to you but Panda’s companies are already buying these raw material gold mines and solidifying the supply lines of their raw materials while we are not doing much.

From wiki: 1. PetroKazakhstan a Calgary-based company exploring in Central Asia, was purchased by the Chinese state-owned China National Petroleum Corporation in 2005

2. Noranda (mining company) & Falconbridge Ltd., purchased by Swiss mining company Xstrata in 2006. Noranda had earlier been a target of state-owned China Metals Corp., but had backed out in 2005 amid public concern in Canada of Chinese state control of such a major company.

3. Addax Petroleum, one of Canada's 9 fortune 2000 2009 oil and gas companies was acquired by sinopec of China for C$8.27 billion in June 2009 and approved by the Chinese government on August 12, 2009.

As an Indian poet once said, a sword cannot do the work of a needle.

Vina wrote:Yeah. On top of that, along with UK Stan, Soviet Canuckistan is the primoridal swamp and cess pit where anti India terror was historically incubated and sustained. Again, just like the UK, has the entire spectrum from Khalistani types ( the entire Kanishka episode and the perpetrators getting away because of the shanigans of the RMCP where the deleted a tape by "mistake" is a total disgrace and a coverup of the Canadian govt's historical support to those groups from getting exposed) to the Islamic terrorist types. It is not for nothing that "Kaneda" is the destination of choice for all sorts of shady types from Pakiland and other places.

Karma is a she dog. Kaneda will get it's just deserts for sure. It is only a question of time before the vipers it has reared and embraced to it's bosom an bite it , and bite it hard. Shandenfreude my friends, is sweet.

This is EXACTLY what I am saying and this is exactly why we need MORE focus on Canada. It Is a springboard for terrorists who want to target U.S.A and India from there. The vast swathes of empty lands provide enough space and privacy for any nefarious activity to be planned. Do you guys know how easy the visa processes are for someone to get American Visa once they are a Canadian PR and subsequent citizenship? There are a million Canadian’s living and working in U.S. They can cross the Canadian border and back when and where they please.

The failure of Kanishka probe is exactly why we should focus more on this country. We need to increase our presence here in their newspapers, blogs everywhere. We need to present our point of view to them. We can’t put the entire blame of Kanishka on Canadian heads. It was also a failure on our part to pressure the Canadian govt to bring the probe to its logical conclusion. Also, If we could talk to the master of the dog, why didn’t we talk to it to force the Kanishka issue on the dog?

And one thing that you are forgeting is with the influx of refugees and immigration from Madarsa countries, The Canadian politicians are actively trying to distance themselves from U.S policies and influence in order to please these people. In this situation we need to make our presence felt and our opinions heard in Khan adda.

Last edited by VijayKumarSinha on 03 Jan 2010 20:55, edited 5 times in total.

She had previously spent several years in Africa reporting on the AIDS epidemic. But, apparently that is not an issue anymore so she packed her bags and came to India. Her articles are the feeding grounds for the Paki-Panda types who use the comment section to fulfill their own agendas. You won’t see any articles from her praising India because she knows only too well that articles of that kind don’t win any awards. She publishes articles in G&M from time to time, she hasn’t published one in some time probably because she is on medical leave because she had said earlier that she was pregnant.

Also, notice the Paki-Panda types in the comments section. It is these people and people like them elsewhere who are driving the Canadian opinion against India.

Also, please read her other blog entries and earlier articles and comment on each one of them because the paki-panda types are running away with their agendas on those.

I too am very pleased that this thread is up and running. One of my main hopes for it was that it would serve as a focal point to address the kind of disinformation that you referenced above. This is why I will promptly post links to online articles that refer to Indian interests, and would encourage others to do the same.

Case in point: 'The Globe and Mail' is 'Canada's National Newspaper'. I read it online at http://www.theglobeandmail.com and anyone who wants to, can register as an online reader FOR FREE and post comments to the articles which have comment boards attached (which is most of them). Also, keep in mind that most of these online newspapers have a 'Search' feature on the main page, so you can quickly scan the daily issues by using the search feature.

The trick here is to make a productive/corrective comment early-on, because these early comments are more likely to be read by others who are inclined to read comments -- to sort of 'get the ball rolling' in the right direction (snowball rolling?).

This notwithstanding, no one should assume that these comments are in any way indicative of Canadian public opinion -- they're only indicative of the poster's knowledge/mindset/slant/predisposition. Moreover, don't give too much credence to the number of 'thumbs-up' or 'thumbs-down' that any particular article or comment garners -- these indicators are also easily manipulated.

I would also like to add that I honestly don't think that Canadian public opinion is (effectively) being driven against India -- quite the opposite. Conversely, being on the ground here, I would have to say that Canadians are downright suspicious of anything Pakistani, and as for China -- most Canadians know authoritarianism when they see it. To put your two examples in context, please do remember that Canada is currently fighting in Afghanistan, and also fought in Korea -- 'nuff said.

For the record, having been born here and lived here almost my entire life, I have been lucky to have had friends (+) from all over the world. Over the years, some of my dearest friends, best classmates and favourite teachers/restaurants/etc. have been 'Chinese' and a few have even been 'Pakistani'. I don't think that any of them have a drop of hatred for India or Canada for that matter. It is with these people, that a better future for us all will be built. To realize this, we've all got to look forward, envision the day and actively pursue a future where India's neighbours can join the brotherhood of nations, peacefully, productively, etc., and live with India and the rest of the world on positive terms. *This does not counsel pacifism, appeasement, dropping your guard, failing to prepare for war, etc.* What it does counsel is not making trouble when it is not warranted, productive or in anyone's interests. It also counsels that we should work to help each other see the common interests we all share, and can help each other to realize, for our common welfare.

Case in point (perhaps OT for this thread): I would like to hear the strategic thinkers on BRF discuss which poses the greatest existential threat to India. Is it; 1) TSP-sponsored terrorism, 2) war with Pakistan, 3) war with China, 4) war with both Pakistan and China simultaneously, or 5) catastrophic climate change melting the glaciers and drying-up Indian rivers and farmlands. If you were to ask me, I would argue for #5, and point-out that India's most essential ally in countering the threat of #5 would probably be China. In light of this, does it help India to spur antagonism with China? I would have to say 'no'.

Also consider; Canadians are very capable of distinguishing between the common people in any country, and the government policies of that country -- so the use of racial, ethnic or religous epithets (which is regrettably rampant on some BR forums), does not sit well with most Canadians -- the thinking Canadians, anyhow -- and it is precisely these people that any online comment should seek to communicate with. Don't waste your time or impugn your own dignity by engaging in a vulgar-worded flame war with some anonymous internet comment board troll.

As we Canadians say: Don't wrestle with a pig -- you both get dirty, and the pig likes it.

Also consider: When we transform our enemies into friends, are they not destroyed?

Case in point (perhaps OT for this thread): I would like to hear the strategic thinkers on BRF discuss which poses the greatest existential threat to India. Is it; 1) TSP-sponsored terrorism, 2) war with Pakistan, 3) war with China, 4) war with both Pakistan and China simultaneously, or 5) catastrophic climate change melting the glaciers and drying-up Indian rivers and farmlands. If you were to ask me, I would argue for #5, and point-out that India's most essential ally in countering the threat of #5 would probably be China. In light of this, does it help India to spur antagonism with China? I would have to say 'no'.

As much as we like to follow what happens in TSP and PRC and latest gadgets to take them on they are not really the priority existential threats (IMHO). It is better to follow the thread, "Know Your India", and threads in Tech&Economic forum. JMT.

2. While it would be nice to discuss “the mutually beneficial steps taken by both countries”, inasmuch as this is retrospective, it must be considered as ‘feel good’ rather than truly constructive (and I for one, am rather busy for too much of that).

3. My hope is that we can “identify the steps both countries could take to further their respective interests”, because I firmly believe the sustainable way forward in every endeavour, can be found by appealing to ‘mutually-beneficial, enlightened self interest’.

4. In furtherance of #2 and #3 above, and in consideration of the ideal of furthering rich, nuanced and complex positive relations between Canada and India, and Canadians and Indians for everyone’s benefit; this thread will hopefully be multi-faceted, and will likely not have any single focal point. Some confusion stemming from; parallel topic discussions, the obligatory clarification of old issues, and the sharing of ‘hidden history’, must be tolerated, IMHO.

5. Just as prosperity is built on security, and military strength is built on economic fortitude, so too is strategic power made of ideological influence and the promulgation of a shared and well-informed, mature understanding. This explains the raison d’être for this ‘India-Canada: News and Discussion’ thread.

AT LENGTH:

I would contend that country-to-country comparisons are largely misleading and pointless, wherever and whenever they are made to ‘rank’ any given country above or below another. The legacies of differing histories, the travails of circumstance and the capricious way that resources and access to them have been bequeathed upon nations and the people living there, conspire to make such comparative rankings utterly stupid. This kind of thing is not generally useful, in any meaningful way IMHO. At the same time, I also believe that it certainly helps, in many ways, to ‘know the terrain’, so that one can identify, scope and capitalize on potential opportunities. This is the spirit in which I have posted the statistics that I have above.

Speaking as a Canadian, let me say that among my biggest gripes with my own country, is Canada’s over-dependence on trade with the US. Personally, I would like to see more trade with other countries, particularly in more easily shipped, high value-added products, rather than in bulky raw materials, which I think we export too readily in unrefined/unprocessed form – effectively exporting jobs and profit margins in the process.

Another thing that bothers me is what I would call undue influence from south of the border. This takes many forms. It manifests itself in (well-laundered) political campaign contributions to American-friendly politicians (who BTW can be found in both of the two largest political parties in Canada). Another (OT but personally painful) example is the way food safety standards have been heavily eroded in Canada by American claims (under NAFTA and the GATT) that (formerly) stringent standards for pesticides residues in foodstuffs, amounted to Canadian trade protectionism (because higher allowable limits translate directly into profits for Dupont et al.). The cost of this has been higher cancer rates than would otherwise be the case (but hey, that’s profitable too). Just compare European limits for pesticides or hormone residues in food, to the old Canadian limits, and the much more lax new standards that have been established after successful American court action under NAFTA and GATT (i.e. ‘North American Free Trade Agreement’, and ‘General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade’).

Among the many things I admire about India, is her independence and freedom from such things. Just look at the ongoing MMRCA trials. This kind of competition could not have happened anywhere else in the whole world, ever. In Canada, for decades now, if the need arose for fighter aircraft, it was taken for granted that we would buy American. This was pretty much our only recourse, since PM Diefenbaker inexplicably announced the cancellation of the ‘Avro Arrow’ fighter aircraft program (a Mach 2-capable, delta-wing interceptor, of which the LCA Tejas bears an uncanny resemblance). For those BRF readers who don’t know (and I’m guessing that’s most of you), the ‘Avro Arrow’ was developed to the point of advanced prototypes, at great expense to Canadian taxpayers, and was proving to be a wondrous success (back in 1959!); only to be utterly destroyed – including the prototypes, parts and spares, *blueprints*, manufacturing jigs, EVERYTHING!!! Along with the Arrow’s cancellation, much of Canada’s cutting edge aerospace industry was simply subsumed into Boeing, Lockheed, Huges and NASA, et cetera. For more information http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Canada_CF-105_Arrow or just take a look at her here…….Notice the internal weapons bays and 'jagged delta-wing' leading edge in lieu of forward canards, for Mach 2 flight back in 1958! Iroquois engines were Canadian too!!

My highschool calculus teacher was an avionics engineer on the Avro Arrow project. He said Canada lost a huge amount of talented young engineers when it canceled the project. They all went south to the US and played key roles in things like NASA's Space Shuttle program.

It's unfortunate that Canada lacked the tax base to fund projects like the Arrow, which could have kept Canada's aerospace industry on top. The US with its huge economic mass does act like a big black hole to suck up talent from other countries, particular nearby ones.

Now that the US economy is faltering, Canada will be able to look farther afield for trading partners. Canadian qualitative advantages combined with Indian quantitative advantages will mean that new strategic complementarities and synergies shall be born.

Whatever snubs India is suffering from the likes of Kevin Rudd, enterprising countries like Canada will move in to fill the gaps.

There will likely be fresh national elections in April, but it's likely that the current minority govt of Stephen Harper will be re-elected with a majority this time. That will only pave the way for more bold decisions that can bring both nations closer together.

Too often we fail to capitalize on opportunities because we are blind to anything outside our immediate neighborhood, geographically and psychologically. The loss is only ours. We only have something gain (even if its just perspective) by looking outward.

At the same time, I also believe that it certainly helps, in many ways, to ‘know the terrain’, so that one can identify, scope and capitalize on potential opportunities. This is the spirit in which I have posted the statistics that I have above.

Looking forward to exploring the Canadian perspective in more detail.

Here are couple of articles (I think first one was already posted, but worth a place in this thread.)

Internationally, things look even grimmer. Europe seems to have bet on AREVA’s reactors while America is considering AREVA and Westinghouse designs. South Korea and China, which had purchased six CANDUs, have also chosen to look at AREVA, Westinghouse and GE models.

Other CANDU customers include small states with fragile economies, namely Romania and Argentina. Any potential deals would be small and uncertain.

There are reasons why CANDU is such a hard sell internationally. Compared to our Russian, European and American rivals, Canada has less to offer in terms of export credits, industrial offsets and diplomatic arm-twisting.

.....

ndia’s NPCIL has been able to lower costs and outperform AECL thanks to a massive pool of technical talent and an enormous, ever-expanding economy with increasing energy demands. The energy requirements are so high that NPCIL cannot construct heavy water reactors quickly enough, and needs to purchase foreign reactors. This led to the Indo-U.S. nuclear deal, which allows India to buy foreign reactors as long as they are open to inspections and used for civilian (non-military) purposes.

.....India has achieved a tremendous track record of rescuing faltering foreign firms in places like Europe. Britain has sold the remnants of its auto industry (Jaguar Land Rover) to an Indian firm and recently pledged funding to the Tata Group for the production of an electric car in the U.K.

Tata Steel has also purchased and overhauled Europe’s largest steel manufacturer, Corus Steel.

Europeans have entrusted Indian behemoths to rescue such important strategic industries as steel and automotive sectors. There is no reason why Canada’s faltering AECL cannot benefit from Indian ownership as well. It may be our only ticket to saving the nuclear industry.

Putting its nuclear pride on the block, the Canadian government is selling CANDU--the reactor wing of the Atomic Energy of Canada Limited (AECL)-- whose units are also in operation in some Indian nuclear plants.

Natural Resources Minister Lisa Raitt in a statement said Ottawa is inviting investors to bid on its nuclear reactor business.

CANDU is the registered trade name for the Canada Deuterium Uranium reactor--a Pressurised Heavy Water Reactor-- designed by AECL.

The development comes days after Prime Minister Stephen Harper finalized an agreement with India on civilian nuclear technology co-operation late last month during a Commonwealth summit in Trinidad and Tobago.

Some market observers feel the Canada-India deal could boost the reactor refurbishment side of Atomic Energy. India has developed its own expertise on heavy-water reactors during the 30-year hiatus since Canada helped India attain nuclear reactor capability.

---- Since April, he and 39 other former U.S. employees of Satyam, all Indian nationals, have called PEI home. They now work for CGI Group Inc., a Canadian computer services company, in a jarring relocation that has meant a new company, a new country and a new culture of small-city life.

---- Cigna was one of those companies, having hired Satyam to manage systems applications for insurance claims and coverage. Cigna pulled the contract and gave it to CGI, for which it will receive revenue of about $28-million a year for eight years.

---- But CGI had to offer employment to the Satyam people who were now part of the Cigna supply chain. More than 90 per cent accepted. (Satyam has since merged with Tech Mahindra, another Indian company.) CGI picked up a computer centre in Hyderabad with about 400 employees, and kept some workers in Hartford. Others were offered spots in Atlantic Canada – mainly people who had U.S. “L1” visas that require holders to work for a specific company.

“With an L1 visa, as soon as your job terminates, you have to be out of there ,” Mr. Roach explains. “One day, they are working in the U.S. and over the weekend they have to show up and operate in Canada.”

From a local news website for 'Kelowna, British Columbia, Canada'...................

Success after NATO's Afghanistan exit largely depends on India; Regional superpower has invested in Afghanistan reconstruction and trade, but that has raised long-held tensions with Pakistan

Wednesday, January 6th, 2010 | 3:10 am

Canwest News Service

The key to what happens in Afghanistan after the United States and NATO allies including Canada begin bringing their military forces home next year will be the response of the regional superpower India.

Indeed, whether or not the international intervention force in Afghanistan can defeat the Taliban insurgency and put the country on the road to recovery between now and the start of planned troop pullouts depends substantially on the state of tensions between India and Pakistan.

I don’t think anyone is expecting India to be magnanimous, exactly, but I’m quite sure that many NATO members and the Afghan people, would rather have India step-up when NATO members step-out, rather than watch Pakistan step-in and stomp all over Afghanistan again. Pretty much everyone can see that this is what is at stake; so it would be wise to plan accordingly, expecting that Pakistan is making plans also. It's just that you don't hear much about these thoughts right now, because voicing them would be decidedly impolitic (given TSP sensibilities). I shudder at the thought of what Pakistan is planning to head-off this potentiality.

I would be very interested to hear how people in India view this subject; of greater Indian ground involvement in Afghanistan, particularly post NATO draw-down.

Back in 2001, I remember reading something, somewhere, about India offering 50,000 BSF troopers to seal the Afghan/Pakistan frontier, but that this offer was rejected by Unkil in deference to TSP sensibilities. Can anyone here on BRF confirm this, or was I dreaming?

Back in 2001, I remember reading something, somewhere, about India offering 50,000 BSF troopers to seal the Afghan/Pakistan frontier, but that this offer was rejected by Unkil in deference to TSP sensibilities. Can anyone here on BRF confirm this, or was I dreaming?

That was an unconfirmed report on orbat.com IIRC. Might have been a CT or even a trial balloon. Anyway it caused much heartburn in TSP.

Ravi Karumanchiri wrote:I would be very interested to hear how people in India view this subject; of greater Indian ground involvement in Afghanistan, particularly post NATO draw-down.

Back in 2001, I remember reading something, somewhere, about India offering 50,000 BSF troopers to seal the Afghan/Pakistan frontier, but that this offer was rejected by Unkil in deference to TSP sensibilities. Can anyone here on BRF confirm this, or was I dreaming?

New Delhi: Canada is likely to push for a relaxed policy regime for its companies that want to come to India under the proposed Comprehensive Economic Partnership Agreement (CEPA) that both the countries are likely to negotiate in the near future. A joint panel of senior officials and trade experts, known as the Joint Study Group, are exploring the potential of a duty-free agreement for goods and services and an investment treaty.

From the MEA website, sorry the website is so poorly interfaced I cant find the direct link... Establishment of India Chair at the University of Toronto

The Indian Council for Cultural Relations (ICCR) and Faculty of Arts and Science, University of Toronto, Canada, have signed a Protocol of Intentions and an Implementation Agreement for establishment of an Indian Chair at the University, to foster international cooperation and research between India and Canada. Under the terms of the Agreement, ICCR, in consultation with Faculty of Arts and Science, University of Toronto, shall appoint an ICCR Visiting Professor in the South Asian Studies Programme at the University. Further, there is a commitment to explore other areas of cooperation including establishment of post doctoral fellowships and faculty exchange. The Protocol of Intention will remain in force for a period of three years beginning January 1, 2010.

A Joint Statement issued during the visit of Mr. Stephen Harper to India in November 2009, recognized education as an area of new momentum in the bilateral relationship, the need to facilitate mutually beneficial linkages in science, technology and innovation, and build synergies between institutions of higher learning in Canada and India. On November 30, 2009, the Canadian government announced the Pan-Canadian Framework for Assessment and Recognition of Foreign Credentials which will enable by the end of 2012 a fast-track system of foreign-credential recognition for 15 occupations. There are 7300 Indian students studying in Canada presently.

Pakistani-Canadian Tahawwur Rana has been charged in connection to the 2008 wave of urban bombings that rocked Mumbai and killed more than 160 people.

.....Through his lawyer, Mr. Rana has denied all charges and claims to have been dupped by Mr. Headly. The two men have a friendship that dates back to their time at a Pakistani military boarding school. Mr. Rana's family, some of whom live in Ottawa, defend him as a man of integrity who is honest and hard-working.

......Mr. Rana immigrated to Canada in 1997 and became a Canadian citizen in June, 2001. But by then, he was already based in Chicago, where he and his family have lived for the past 10 years.

Parminder Singh Saini, 46, who took refuge here 15 years ago and faces deportation to India, sought permission last year to practice law in Canada after completing his law degreehere. But the Law Society of Upper Canada has now ruled that Saini cannot practice in Canada because of his bad character.

LINK wrote:New Delhi, Jan 18 (IANS) Escorting relief teams, giving medical treatment and providing logistics support to the UN - India’s Lt. Col. Pronob K. Roy and over 150 fellow Indians of the UN mission in Haiti have been working tirelessly and without sleep since a devastating earthquake hit the country a week ago.

It was on Jan 12, at 4.53 p.m., that the earth shook violently with a magnitude of 7.0 in the Caribbean nation, flattening whole swathes of the country, with conservative estimates saying that over 50,000 people have perished.

The Indian contingent deployed with UN’s Haiti mission, called MINUSTAH, consists of a 140-member Formed Police Unit (FPU), mainly from the Central Industrial Security Force (CISF), as well as 11 UN police officers. There are also 51 Indians working with Trigyn Technologies Ltd, a Mumbai-based company that provides IT support for UN missions.

India has sent $1 million in cash for emergency relief, and topped it with another $5 million. But what Col. Roy and other Indians are doing for the quake victims is an untold story.

For Roy, who landed in Haiti 24 days ago on deputation from the Indian Army to the UN logistics unit, his own survival is a miracle - three times over.

“I was supposed to be in the UN headquarters but due to my presence in another conference I was lucky the first time,” 38-year-old Roy told IANS over telephone from Port-au-Prince.

The logistics base was located at the foot of a hill on which the MINUSTAH headquarters, operating from a hotel, collapsed, killing its chief, Hedi Annabi, a Tunisian, and over 100 UN personnel.

The next miracle was when Roy survived the quake in his office at the logistics base, the computer, air-conditioner and almirahs falling around him. Cracks bloomed on his office walls.

Unshaken, Roy returned after the tremor into the damaged office to see if he could salvage anything.

“Bang came the first aftershock in 15 minutes. This time the windows cracked on my back. Still I managed to survive,” he recalled.

While the FPU members are safe, the building developed several cracks. “All the personnel are now sleeping in the open and not using the concrete structure for their stay.”

With collapsed buildings, strewn bodies and roads clogged, the Indians working with the UN rallied immediately to start giving relief work after the killer quake.

“I got the first communication from a local who came rushing saying that the headquarter building had crumbled. The whole city was in a jam. Petrol pumps were burning. There was utter chaos,” said Roy, whose family is from Kolkata.

With all the UN senior officials untraceable at the collapsed MINUSTAH headquarters, Roy, deputy chief of the integrated support services, Minustah’s Logistic Base Crisis Centre, was given powers to take charge till his next superior was found alive.

“Within 45 minutes, I went on my aerial sortie to see the situation,” Roy said.

Indian personnel were also crucial in getting power and water supply restored to the premises of Minustah within hours.

“The water pipes had burst and the plumbing had clogged. Bhupinder Singh, a water treatment plant specialist, reported to me at 3 a.m., walking on foot from his collapsed house,” he said.

Singh used his ingenuity to connect the water lines and operate the pump station by 6 in the morning.

Indians used to working with lesser materials have been inventive in managing with the broken-down infrastructure, dealing with unimaginable destruction and death on a regular manner.

“When you see a corpse you don’t panic, you call another guy and lift it and put the body in an orderly manner. When you do not have refrigeration container to put it in, you empty a container which has food and keep the body in it and use the food to feed the people.”

The Indian FPUs have been put in charge of escorting the rescue and relief teams that are rushing to Haiti from around the world.

But the Indians have been going beyond their call of duty.

With all hospitals collapsed, urgent medical attention has been given by the FPU, who set up a medical camp within the premises. There are also another 35 Indian nuns working with the Missionaries of Charity, who are also engaged in humanitarian work.

“We have been working for six days without sleep. I don’t know how I have been going on. I really, really want to put on record how amazing our boys have been,” Roy said.

SwamyG wrote:A good read: http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/2010/01 ... oks-haiti/David Brooks wrote an article on the recent Haiti earthquake & disaster relief. There is a critique of that essay or rather on David Brooks. It reminded me of on dhaaga that was here @ BRF that talked about how/why India is like this because of its culture.

ramana wrote:Added other North and South American countries to the title.

X-Post...

LINK wrote:New Delhi, Jan 18 (IANS) Escorting relief teams, giving medical treatment and providing logistics support to the UN - India’s Lt. Col. Pronob K. Roy and over 150 fellow Indians of the UN mission in Haiti have been working tirelessly and without sleep since a devastating earthquake hit the country a week ago.

Hats off to the Indian forces there. Is India going to send other forces there, in order to relive these guys, at least for a breather?

Satha Sarachandran was an unlikely international arms dealer. Quiet and studious, he was a software engineer who volunteered at a Toronto youth group. He had no criminal record.

But in 2006, FBI agents caught the 30-year-old Canadian shopping for surface-to-air missiles in Long Island, New York, and Friday afternoon he was sentenced to 26 years in prison......Surface-to-air missiles are a hot commodity on the black market. Rebel groups want them to repel air strikes and terrorists want them to target commercial aviation, such as the 2002 Strela-2 missile attack on an Israeli airliner in Mombassa, Kenya......On July 31, 2006, Sarachandran took a flight from Toronto to New York to meet a Tamil man he thought was a representative of an Italian arms dealer.

The meeting was arranged by Yogarasa, a 55-year-old German-educated Sri Lankan who had allegedly done previous deals for the rebels. It was a costly mistake because the man they contacted was a longtime FBI informant.

As the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force recorded the meeting, Sarachandran told the informant he was representing the Tamil Tigers, who had asked him to look for weapons that could down the Kfir jets used by the Sri Lankan military.

Two days later, the informant sent him an e-mail. "Let me know if your guys are interested," it read. Attached were photos of the Russian SA-18 Igla missile system. Such a costly acquisition required the rebels' approval, so on Aug. 10 Thanigasalam flew to Sri Lanka to meet leaders of the Tamil Tigers.

Pottu Amman, the rebel intelligence boss and the mastermind behind the assassination of Indian Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi, oversaw the procurement operation. When Thanigasalam returned to Toronto with the rebels' consent to proceed with the deal and a shopping list of other weapons, Sarachandran phoned the informant to tell him the news. There was no point in buying five or 10 missiles, he said, the rebels wanted 50 to 100. "It has to be obtained in bulk," Sarachandran said. "At our rate, if we fire 10 at least two will hit.".....In Toronto, meanwhile, the RCMP arrested three more Canadians: Piratheepan Nadarajah; Ramanan Mylvaganam; and Suresh Sriskandarajah, the former president of the University of Waterloo Tamil Students Association. (They are awaiting extradition to the United States.)

Thanks for your kudos. I would have posted the referenced article here at the time, but I didn't think it was warranted, since it lacked an actual Canadian angle, and was second-hand as far as Indian news was concerned. In retrospect though, making mincemeat of nutjobs is the kind of alchemy that is needed to 'win hearts and minds' for the cause of rational thought -- so I probably should have linked to the article, thinking more of the nutjobs than the article itself. I will consider being more vigilant in future. Remember though, there's only so much time we can devote to anti-nutjob ops. Thanks all the same.

Regards,RK

& & & & & & & & & & &

BC Opens Trade Office In Chandigarh

CHANDIGARH – BC opened their first trade office in Chandigarh on Friday as part of the province’s doing business with India strategy with offices also slated for Bangalore and Mumbai.

Attorney General Mike De Jong took a delegation of Indo-Canadian business people and municipal leaders like Abbotsford mayor George Perry to officially open the office.

The province hopes to enhance trade with India in industrial and agriculture sections with Punjab, Karnataka, Maharashtra and other states concerned.

Kolkata, Jan 25 – India and Mexico will hold open talks for a full free trade agreement (FTA) in May, Jaime Nualart, ambassador of Mexico, said here Monday.

‘Negotiations for FTAs take time and we are at a preliminary stage. A high-level committee on economic and trade relations will meet with its Indian counterparts in May. FTA is one of the major issues to be discussed at the meeting in Mexico,’ he said on the sidelines of an interactive session organised by the Indian Chamber of Commerce. ...http://www.vamban.com/india-mexico-fta- ... ly-in-may/

China, India and other emerging Asian countries have caught the full attention of investors over the past year. With near triple-digit stock returns and world-beating economic growth prospects, it's easy to see why.

Developing markets in Latin America, on the other hand, have often been ignored. But being an impressive growth engine in its own right that also boasts attractive relative valuations, investors are bound to start taking more notice.

"It is not that hard to find value across Latin America and certainly the growth in the [region] augers well for its markets," said Nick Chamie, head of emerging-market research at RBC Capital Markets in Toronto.

Standing on the rubble of the United Nations headquarters building in Port-au-Prince 10 days ago, Shashi Tharoor removed a four-year-old stain on Indian diplomacy. The first Indian minister to ever set foot in Haiti, he told its president, René Garcia Préval, that New Delhi had not merely pledged five million dollars for relief after the devastating earthquake in one of the poorest countries of the world: it had already deposited the cash in the UN’s account in New York so that there was no delay in reaching help to those who needed it most in Haiti. For a change, there was little red tape when it came to responding to this natural disaster.

Slightly more than four years ago, on September 4, 2005 to be precise, many Indians had hung their heads in shame and embarrassment after the United Progressive Alliance government gave five million dollars in assistance to the richest nation on earth, the United States of America, to help victims of Hurricane Katrina in the American south. The aid to the US was a decision that puzzled many people, including some of the very officials at the Indian embassy in Washington whose job it was to hand over the money to the American Red Cross.

After the Asian tsunami in 2004, Indian naval relief ships were the first to reach some of the affected communities, from Sri Lanka to Indonesia. Last month, by a coincidence, it was Indian blood which initially saved Haitian lives after the natural disaster. That was because only the day before the earthquake, the CISF personnel had given blood to the Red Cross in Port-au-Prince. That blood came in handy when the first victims were brought to hospitals in Haiti.

The CISF contingent had two doctors. They immediately began treating victims who sustained crash injuries. Since the doctors did not have amputation equipment, they could only be of limited service, but that was a moment of pride for India, indeed.

The other source of light from India amidst the darkness of Haiti’s continuing misery comes from that ubiquitous Calcutta-based institution, Mother Teresa’s Missionaries of Charity and its Order of Brothers. For Tharoor, who spent considerable time with the Missionaries, there was the added satisfaction that Sister Patsy, who was leading the work of the nuns in Haiti, was from Kerala, which he represents in the Lok Sabha.

Once Tharoor’s Haiti visit prompted an examination of his Latin American itinerary, it was interesting to discover that this minister was actually addressing a chronic shortcoming in the Indian system: a ministerial and bureaucratic habit of promising the world during a high-level visit, either to a foreign country or on a return visit to India, and then forgetting all about those promises and completely failing to do any follow up.

It was the same story in Peru, another country which Tharoor visited last fortnight. The last time there were any signs of life in Indo-Peruvian relations was when the present foreign secretary, Nirupama Rao, was ambassador in Lima: that was between 1995 and 1999. After a decade of subsequent inactivity, Tharoor persuaded the Peruvians to offer as many as 65 unexploited mines in this mineral-rich country to Indians.

What is the guarantee that Peru will follow up on its offer? The current president, Alan Garcia, is term-limited and cannot contest the next election due in 2011. His most likely successor is Lima’s mayor, Luis Castañeda Lossio, who fêted Tharoor with an honorary citizenship of the capital city. Lossio’s only request was that Tharoor should persuade Ratan Tata to send that new symbol of Indian soft power, the Tata Nano, to Lima as soon as possible. It does not look like a bad deal: a few Nanos in exchange for 65 unexploited mines.