If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Welcome to CycloneFanatic.com. I notice you haven't taken the time to register yet, now is as good of time as any:)

What does it take?

As a frequent viewer but infrequent poster, I'd thought I'd throw out this question: What does it take for the ISU Football nation to be completely happy in terms of a coach? We have seemingly beat the proverbial dead dog with a stick listing reasons why a large (or is it just vocal) contingent dislikes the current coaching situation so this is a question to those people:

What does it take to be happy? How many wins defines a winning program? How many do we want? Do we need winning trends, or go at it like the Florida Marlins and win huge one year or two and then crash the next five? When DMac is gone (whether this year, in five years or when he retires, it's going to happen) how long do we let a coach stick around before we decide that "he's not taking us to where we want to be." What allows a new coach to stick around: is it wins even if we graduate 0-5% of the student-athletes (a-la Cincinnati basketball with Bob Huggins) or is it a combination of both class in the classroom and on the field with great wins?

And then of course the other half of that question: what allows a coach to be canned?

A few years back during the Larry Legend Scandal, a prominent donor and booster to the program was quoted as saying that he isn't about supporting just one coach or just one administrator for ISU and that he's not going to pull his money just because a coach is canned or isn't fired: he's about supporting the the student-athletes and ISU.

While idealistic, it paints a very clear picture of what all of this mess can be: a sport, played by two teams, fighting to win. Sure money and superiority and TV contracts and everything else is intertwined with it, but we are here to support our boys, our team, through thick and thin. No matter who or what is coaching our beloved 'Clonies.

Re: What does it take?

Originally Posted by brutodd

As a frequent viewer but infrequent poster, I'd thought I'd throw out this question: What does it take for the ISU Football nation to be completely happy in terms of a coach? We have seemingly beat the proverbial dead dog with a stick listing reasons why a large (or is it just vocal) contingent dislikes the current coaching situation so this is a question to those people:

What does it take to be happy? How many wins defines a winning program? How many do we want? Do we need winning trends, or go at it like the Florida Marlins and win huge one year or two and then crash the next five? When DMac is gone (whether this year, in five years or when he retires, it's going to happen) how long do we let a coach stick around before we decide that "he's not taking us to where we want to be." What allows a new coach to stick around: is it wins even if we graduate 0-5% of the student-athletes (a-la Cincinnati basketball with Bob Huggins) or is it a combination of both class in the classroom and on the field with great wins?

And then of course the other half of that question: what allows a coach to be canned?

A few years back during the Larry Legend Scandal, a prominent donor and booster to the program was quoted as saying that he isn't about supporting just one coach or just one administrator for ISU and that he's not going to pull his money just because a coach is canned or isn't fired: he's about supporting the the student-athletes and ISU.

While idealistic, it paints a very clear picture of what all of this mess can be: a sport, played by two teams, fighting to win. Sure money and superiority and TV contracts and everything else is intertwined with it, but we are here to support our boys, our team, through thick and thin. No matter who or what is coaching our beloved 'Clonies.

To me, happy is having a well respected and disciplined program that wins 7 games..... in a down year. A few years of 10+ wins and no losing seasons for about 7-8 years could justify a program as being a "winning program."

Re: What does it take?

I put football teams into 4 categories: Top Tier (ranked 1-5 nationally), First Tier (ranked 6 - 20), Second Tier (ranked 20-35 or 40), and I Don't Care Anymore About the Tier (ranked below 40).

DMac has brought us from the bottom (deeply rooted in I Don't Care Anymore About the Tier) to being a good, solid Second Tier team (Kudos to him on this amazing and quick rebuilding). But our expectations are to be a consistent First Tier team.

For me to be happy, I want the team to consistently be a First Tier team. What cstrunk wants will put us there.

If we were content with being a Second Tier team, then keep DMac. Otherwise, challenge him to make the team a First Tier team, and hold him accountable if he can't (just give him enough time after you have made that challenge to see if he can meet it). You fire a coach if he really screws up, or can't put the program where you want it to be.

Last edited by aerosill; 10-03-2006 at 04:34 PM.
Reason: Made a wording mistake (good thing I wasn't an English major)

Re: What does it take?

I agree with with aerosill stated; now to anyone, has JP given DMac an ultimatum of sorts (or anybody have any good theories) and if so, how long does it take? Based on the "tier" theory which sounds pretty dang good, does Iowa qualify for a top tier or a second tier?

Re: What does it take?

I guess I'm not sure how everyone thinks ISU is magically going to be a "top tier" or "first tier" team. I hate to be the complacent one, but if we could be ranked anywhere in the polls every year I'd be thrilled. There are very very few teams who are able to consistently stay in the upper eschelon of college football. Even Texas and Oklahoma spent time in the dumps for a few years. On top of that, look at the type of teams you're describing (and implying you want ISU to be)...teams like Texas, Oklahoma, Michigan, Ohio State, Florida, Miami, USC, Auburn, etc. There are many things that those school have that ISU does not have and probably won't ever have. They are all schools with a long football tradition, all big football states (meaning high school football is huge there and other people recruit those states because of the excess talent), all have amazing facilities, and all can afford top notch coaches. I think we need to be more realistic about our expectations. Would you guys really be unhappy if we consistenly went 7-5/8-4 and had a 10 win season every 10 years or so? That was the level Hayden Fry was at when he was in Iowa City and would any of us complain if the Cyclones equaled the success of Iowa in the 80s?

Re: What does it take?

I think the fire McCarney crowd is a very vocal minority. KXNO talked about the Jamie Pollard/ McCarney issue this morning. My thought is that with Pollard you have a man of action. Obviously. With a man of action, you have to take his words at face value. And he has said very publicly that some Cyclone fans don't appreciate the coach that they have in Mac. Which is a large statement of support in my book. Anyone that wants to read more into the situation is fabricating based on their personal bias. The Bball coach situation was completely different. Wayne took a program from probably the first tier, and seemed to be leading them towards the second tier and beyond.

Re: What does it take?

I would strive for a nine win season every three years. With 13 games and softies at home, this is not beyond expectations. Off years should never be less than six wins because the payoff is so great with a possible bowl game and better recruiting.

Re: What does it take?

I feel the wins and loses don't always tell the whole story. Not only is the number of wins important but we need to win the important ones. We need to win the north, or if not win it, not blow two years in a row. DMac doesn't have to win it every year, but he has not showen that he can or will when it is handed to him. Right now we have the best fan support in FB history. If our program can play in the big 12 championship game, all the new fans are more likely to really fall in love with the program the way that most of us on this site have. And if we ever make a BCS (even once) we start getting to national love. Fans all over the country that have no ties to ISU. We then are making some real progress. I just hate seeing the wasted chances for some thing really special.

Re: What does it take?

If we do not have six wins, we do not bowl. McC is most proud of bowling five out of six years. The players are better when you bowl. It means national exposure. It means you are not KSU or Coplorasdo like this year. To wuin the North, you need a softer schedule. That is 2008 when TRedville visits Ames. That is why we really screwed up when we lost the North the last two years. We were too conservative. Now with a tougher schedule, we need to go for it and gamble.

Re: What does it take?

I would be happy if he would start to bring in some 4 and 5 star recruits. I've always heard how he is an excellent recruiter and he is when it comes to 2 and 3 star athletes. He also gets a lot out of those athletes. why can't he bring in the bigger star athletes? How many 4 and 5 star recruits have we had in the past? Why can't he bring them in? Why doesn't he even really recruit them?

Re: What does it take?

You guys have to be kidding me-you'd be happy with a tier 1 or 2 team? If we don't have a coach in here who strives for the national championship or a BCS game I don't want him.

I will be forever thankful to Dan for getting us to the respectable status we enjoy now, but we will NEVER be more than a marginal team with him at the helm. In this age of parity, coaches have a small window to get teams to the next level. Dan has had over a decade and we have two marginal bowl victories to show for it.

I do NOT advocate for the firing of Dan, but we will never be more than a marginal team in marginal bowls with him as the head of this team. I personally have high aspirations for our teams-Dan has not led us there in a dozen years and I do not believe he will during his tenure at ISU.

Re: What does it take?

You guys have to be kidding me-you'd be happy with a tier 1 or 2 team? If we don't have a coach in here who strives for the national championship or a BCS game I don't want him.

I will be forever thankful to Dan for getting us to the respectable status we enjoy now, but we will NEVER be more than a marginal team with him at the helm. In this age of parity, coaches have a small window to get teams to the next level. Dan has had over a decade and we have two marginal bowl victories to show for it.

I do NOT advocate for the firing of Dan, but we will never be more than a marginal team in marginal bowls with him as the head of this team. I personally have high aspirations for our teams-Dan has not led us there in a dozen years and I do not believe he will during his tenure at ISU.

We'd all love for a National Championship, and it should be an ultimate goal, but that is so far out of reach. WE need to achieve lesser goals first, like winning the North outright and making the Big XII champ game, win the Big XII champ game, have a 10 win season, finish in the final BCS poll, make a BCS bowl game, and then have a 1 loss season. That's a lot to do before we can realistically consider going for a national championship.

Chuck Lidell: I paint my toenails with pink and black polish. Problem is, I get more paint on my toes and on the carpet than on my nails. Any advice?Maria Sharapova: Don't you beat up other guys for a living? I don't know how to answer this.

All content owned by CycloneFanatic.com - All rights reserved 2005-09. By viewing this website you agree to the Terms of Service, Site Rules and Legal Disclaimer. The words, views, images and opinions expressed or provided by users do not reflect the opinions or views of CycloneFanatic.com or Iowa State University. The names, words, symbols, and graphics representing Iowa State University are trademarks and copyrights of the University protected by the trademark and copyright laws of the United States of America and other countries and are used on this web site under license from the University. Original site design, premise & construction by Jeremy Lind.