Warriors/Griz and Warriors/Clippers Open Thread

My wedding happens to be one of them. I’m out this weekend to get hitched, and will be offline for most of November as well. I’m sure you all will get me up to speed quickly when I return. I’d still like to have a better record than the Lakers when I get back — is that too much to ask?

To keep the conversation going in my absence, I’ve recruited my good friend (and former English teacher!) Chris Lorenc to guest blog in my absence. Chris has years of experience playing and coaching basketball. He has an excellent eye for detail and a knack for cutting to the core of issues. You’ve already read a lot of his takes, because he’s greatly influenced the way I see and write about the game. In short, you’re in for a treat.

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To give Chris a proper introduction, we traded a few emails over the past few days about some high-level strategic issues facing Mark Jackson and the team.

Adam: For years the Warriors had a clear identity — they were a running team, whatever the cost in defense or size. With changes in ownership and coaching, the identity seems to be in flux. In a perfect world, what tempo do you think this team should play?

Chris: This current W’s team should fastbreak at the obvious opportunities, when virtually all NBA teams do: after long rebounds and steals. But what could distinguish this team — what could become their signature identity — would be if they develop the discipline to force tempo in a “controlled break,” that is, even when the initial “numbers” aren’t there that could result in a lay-up or dunk.

The W’s should look for early, quick post-hits to players like Lee and Landry who could then use their quickness to maximum advantage before the help defense is set. Simultaneously, the W’s should be spacing the floor in this “early offense” with their great shooters. If the W’s push tempo, opponents’ scrambling transition defenses will have a nightmare (a) trying to simultaneously defend the rim while (b) being in a panic not to lose a Thompson or Curry or Rush or Barnes out beyond the arc. Plus, as soon as a transition defense tries to run a W’s shooter off the line, more driving lanes open up than the W’s halfcourt sets can create. The W’s have the personnel to be one of the really good 4 x 3 teams in the league.

Before Curry re-tweaked his ankle, Adam, we both noted how conscientiously Curry was making himself a deep outlet target after rebounds — and then how eagerly he quickened tempo once he had the ball. I was also impressed by how Jarrett Jack did the same thing — force tempo — in the last pre-season game against the Suns. In addition, Jack used his strength to “probe” the defense in early offense. The W’s made 8/16 of their 3’s against the Suns that night, and I’d be interested in seeing how many of those makes came on “early offense.”

Here would be an important stat to keep (and hopefully the W’s do): what % of their offensive possessions are initiated by a walk-up halfcourt set — and what % are initiated in transition as part of a “controlled break”? And then…what’s the offensive efficiency rating for each kind of possession?

Adam: Getting out on the break requires the team to secure the rebound. They were one of the worst in the league at this last year. Will Bogut’s addition turn things around on the glass? What else does this team need to do to improve its rebounding rate?

Chris: Bogut really should help the W’s finally shore up their defensive rebounding. But the W’s have to do more than defensive rebound better. They have to win the offensive rebounding differential. Limiting opponents’ offensive rebounding is necessary (W’s were 30th, dead-last,in the league at this last year) — but simultaneously they have to increase their own offensive rebounding, too (29th, second to the last in the league at this).

Bogut’s size and positioning will reduce opponents’ offensive rebounds more than it will increase (by itself) the W’s own offensive rebounding. And I wonder how many really good instinctive offensive rebounders the W’s have? A major part of Lee’s identity early in his career was based on this, and he’s still a good offensive rebounder. Rush and (potentially) Barnes can both be good offensive rebounders. And as you’ve pointed out, Draymond Green has already shown the necessary anticipation and tenacity to be a very good offensive rebounder. But how minutes will he get?

What coaching can do is emphasize, monitor, and reward offensive rebounding as much as possible — within the tricky framework of also emphasizing defensive transition. It’s an innate conflict: “crashing the glass” vis-a-vis “getting back on defense.” But the W’s have the depth now to do both, and if they’re going to be a good team, they’re going to have to learn the balance.

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So I’d say the short answer to your tough question is for the W’s to emphasize attacking the offensive glass every bit as much as they count on Bogut to anchor their defensive rebounding.

Here’s a question for you: Can the W’s finally develop a real post-up game (that among other things gets them more FT’s)? What should their halfcourt offense look like? For this team, what’s the right balance between (1) screen-and-rolls; (2) sets whose first option is to create a jumper; and (3) the post-up game?

Adam: The first step to having a functional halfcourt offense is for the Warriors to move when they’re not in transition. There was a great moment on opening night — about 3 minutes in Andrew Bogut’s career as a Warrior — where he was waving his arm wildly with the ball tucked under one arm, encouraging the Warriors to move without the ball in the halfcourt so they can get better looks. This is a team that doesn’t have strong fundamentals in the halfcourt, dating back to the give-it-to-Monta-and-clear-out era. But Ellis is gone and that style should be too. Players like Thompson and Rush will be deadly if the Warriors can run even average halfcourt sets.

As for who does it and what it looks like, Jarrett Jack seems like the obvious choice to initiate. We saw a great example of it in the fourth quarter against Phoenix. I also love Bogut as a high-post quarterback for this team. He has the vision and instincts for it, the team just needs to learn to be ready when he has the ball in his hands. In terms of targets, Landry is the best option since he’s so automatic from the post. Barnes is an intriguing choice as well, since he’s shown an early ability to blow by guys with his athleticism and explosiveness. There’s no Luis Scola or Al Jefferson on this roster, but with a little creative coaching they can manufacture some high-percentage looks.

So to answer your ultimate question, the first step into a halfcourt offense is to get the shooters open. The next step should be to move guys closer to the basket. All of that will take moment off the ball and real screens — not half-hearted stops on the way to somewhere else (looking at you David Lee). The guys from other systems (Jack, Bogut, Landry) seem to get this. We’ll learn soon whether Mark Jackson does as well.

It’s odd to have all this talk about offense. It used to be the least of our worries, but now seems to be a bigger concern than how the team defends. What do you think of the Warriors current defense? Is it improved over what we’ve seen in prior years?

Chris: So far the W’s have shown a consistently improved defensive focus. They’ve been well-schooled and look much more in synch as a team defensively. They’re making crisper rotations and are doing a much better job of sustaining those rotations throughout the shot-clock. And with some exceptions (including late in the opener against the Suns when Jackson went small), they’re doing a much better job at closing the deal with a defensive rebound. Jackson and his staff deserve credit, as do the players who seem to have genuinely bought in. Happily, it’s rarer to spot individuals taking this or that defensive possession off, effort-wise.Already in just 18 winded minutes on the court, Bogut wows you with his defensive awareness and positioning. Watching him constantly in subtle motion, reading not only where the ball and his man are now — but where everybody else is on the court and where the ball’s most likely to go next — was a thing of beauty. As a rookie, Ezeli’s been impressing everyone, too. Still, when Bogut left the court, the W’s defense dropped a little. That’s no criticism of Ezeli. It’s an observation that Bogut’s comes as advertised as a bigtime defensive anchor.

If there was some understandable defensive drop from Bogut to Ezeli, the real drop, the dangerous and expected one, came when Bogut and Ezeli were both off the court. Even before the mid-season trade last year, Jackson showed a willingness to trade defense for offense by going small down the stretch of many games. Presumably, it’s going to become very hard to keep Bogut off the floor at the end of games. But Jackson’s answer as to why he left Ezeli off the court in favor of two PF’s not noted for their defense wasn’t immediately reassuring. He said he needed Landry and Lee’s offense. He said that right now Landry and Lee are better rebounders than Ezeli. But he said nothing about defense.

Ideally, the presence of Bogut (and Ezeli) push Lee and Landry to give maximum defensive effort every minute they’re on the court. Having Landry to back up Lee can make for a very productive PF position, even though neither is a great individual defender. But I’d be wary of giving them too many minutes together — and choosing offense over defense too often (at Ezeli’s expense).

Another thing that gives me pause is that the W’s, especially Curry and Thompson, haven’t been very aggressive in fighting through on-ball screens. Rush looms more and more important all the time, including defensively, as by far the W’s best perimeter defender. Barnes shows promise. Jefferson is solid. Jack and Green are tenacious and willing.

The W’s will need to stay focused and in-synch defensively — and with everyone, including the W’s average or mediocre individual defenders, giving maximum effort. The W’s don’t have enough great individual defenders to get away with anything less. If they do keep this team-wide defensive focus, in Bogut (and Ezeli) they have a terrific anchor for that effort.

Adam Lauridsen

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Many think Curry is not, cannot be and will not be a good PG, and therefore, would be the wrong choice to lead this team to a championship.

Others like his attributes even when he plays the PG position, urging patience, ultimately believing his strengths will outweigh his weaknesses at the PG position.

All worry about his health and many injuries. Few add that he is money poorly spent.

NOW, can we take the debate of whether he is or is not a PG off this page, please? It has to be the most redundant debate of the past 4 years, along with SNSB.

IMustBreakU

SNSB?

earl monroe

Curry just needs to be on the floor period, sometimes its hard to swallow the same type of bad passes being made, or the softness he exudes at times when driving to the basket, but like every player he has strengths and shortcomings, but this guy is a very good player, its not easy to score 20 and get 5 assists in the NBA, I think there is more upside than downside with him, the naysayers here don’t focus enough on the positives, I think he is still favoring the ankle a bit, but I could be wrong its just my opinion.

believewhat

meir,

Curry does have issue with playing good D and TOs, it is obvious. But, does he help as PG of the team to win the game despite those issues(which he clearly needs to improve upon) is the question. You think he helps team lose more than win as PG. Obviously, we watch the game differently. We see how ball moves with him there as PG and while you look at box score and TOs.

I know few PGs, top 10 of all time neverthless who has a career average of 3+TOs per game. Curry’s career average is 3.0. at this time. Most people say Magic Johnson is all time best PG and he averaged 3.87 TOs for career. Isiah averaged 3.8 TOs for career. Even John Stockton averaged 2.8 TOs for his career and has many years of averaging more than 3TOs. Deron Williams average like 3.2 TOs per game. Most of these PGs have even higher than career average TOs in their first few years.

sartre

@252, my guess is something like Stupid Nellie Small Ball.

RickP

Meir, I’m well aware of Curry’s numbers this season. I thought he was particularly bad in game 2. I wrote a post criticizing his performance.

I often feel misunderstood when I post. I don’t consider myself a black or white thinker.

So, when I commented that, over the years, Curry’s +/- has been very good in context, that does not mean that I’m unaware of the fact that it hasn’t been great over the last 3 games. And, while I am very interested in the +/- stat, single game +/- is meaningless except, possibly, when examined with a careful analysis of the gameflow chart and matchups.

I would think that a Curry fan would have an easier time dealing with these numbers than a detractor. Years of relative success vs. 3 games of poor performance?

As far as his ability to run a team from the PG spot, I think that’s not as easy a question as it seems. Curry does not show some of the skills I prefer in a PG. He is not a great penetrator. He does not typically cause the defense to collapse. He is prone to TO’s. Yet, the long term numbers show that the team is pretty good when he’s running it. I think that’s because of great shooting, good court vision and passing and the sort of subtlety that got CP called for that charge.

Anyway, if you don’t think I’m right about any of that, please explain the long term +/- numbers. I’m willing to be proved wrong, if I’m wrong.

Our Team

Dr J, I don’t believe CP was going to pass to Griffin that penultimate possession bc the Ws would have fouled Griffin hard to prevent the bucket. That’s why Jack had Curry fall back guarding Griffin in the lane. If the ball went down low, even a lob, help was coming with a hard foul to make sure he couldn’t convert and put him on the line. If you are the Clips in that situation down two you don’t want Griffin on the line. No way. From your post comment I presume you feel that CP should have thrown some sort of alley-oop lob/ dunk to Griffin but help was coming so that was a long-shot IMO. Heck, CP made the shot, he just committed a charge to do it.

The Clips fans on their blog are all talking about how their expensive C got totally outplayed by a No. 30 draft pick. And of course how the refs ripped them off. I love it.

RickP

I just praised Curry for a fine defensive play, but, on second thought, I also think he got a little lucky. Was he planted before CP leapt? It took me a couple of replays to decide that it looked like he was there in time, but it was damned close. The refs could easily have called it a blocking foul and made it a 3 point play instead of a turnover. Jackson said later that they got the defensive set they wanted, but I wonder.

…scotch

Wow just checking in the day after one of the Warriors best wins in recent years & meier, a guy who didn’t even see the game, is posting his slop!

Nice to see mister boxscore reader still has to roll out his obsession!

~Sad~

Gmoney

All this talk about whether Curry can be a good pg may be moot as I see the team transitioning (finally) to a more open system where three guards have the authority to push the ball, initiate and set up others. Jack, Curry and Klay all ran the point last night. The results were amazing. Curry got open looks, klay put sg’s on their heels and opened up his shooting game, and Jack did what he always does, grind. What is more, half the time (in the half court) they ran through bigs in the high post. MJ is finally starting to realize that the strength of this team is its versatility and pigeonholing players like Klay and Curry is folly. I was very impressed with Klays instincts as he pushed the break and playing with a live dribble like that really helped him get to the lane. I fell like he missed inordinate amounts of point blank shots he would otherwise make. Usually, he goes for 25 in a game like this.

Also, I will give MJ credit in setting up Curry off the ball and getting him into pick and roll situations that were advantageous to him. A real beauty was one where Klay initiated, hit Curry coming off a curl screen, and had curry;s screener come up and run a pick and roll with curry. This play cleared out the entire side of the court, the motion on the other end kept the weakside at bay, and Curry had options to make good decisions. They lran this with both Landry and Lee.

Speaking of Landry, he is everything I had hoped he would be. He has always been a player that I have been impressed with. He has a sixth sense inside to know when to pump fake, when to reverse the shot, when to go off the glass, when to dunk. It’s a rare trait. If Blake had it he’d be the best player in basketball. Landry is a tremendous foil to Lee. One attacks the rim like a bull and plays physical, the other is more of a perimeter player. Keeps the opposing team off balance. How about that exchange when Landry pushed Blake to the ground on an out of bounds, then tried to grab the ball out of Blakes hands getting him riles up while Landry grinned like a jackal. I love that kinda stuff, and its the kinda stuff we haven’t had since SJax.

I yiyi yi

Yo folks WTF??? We won. Curry was great, the doubters will continue to doubt we believers will continue to believe. This was and should be a celebration of the warriors transitioning from marshmallows to a decent defensive team

sartre

Three games in and arguably the dubs biggest offensive threats – Curry, Lee, and Thompson – are all averaging under 40% from the field. Once they start resuming normal transmission on offense it will be hard for opposing teams to counter given the general improvement at the defensive end. Landry, particularly his combination with Jack, has been huge so far.

Gmoney, I’m enjoying the fluid approach.

But I hope they don’t overplay the Curry, Jack, and Thompson combo. Thompson struggles guarding many SFs and Curry and Jack make for a small back court tandem on the defensive end.

deano

The swarming defense last night looked like the defense played by GSW’s undefeated LV Summer League team. That squad was coached by Pete Myers, who seemed to be very vocal in timeouts last night. This is a good thing.

The Warriors might be able to maintain that defensive effort throughout the season, if MJack continues to use a nine-man rotation (with Bogut).

The only “over used” player last night was Curry, with 42 minutes. MJack may need to give Jenkins some minutes (5-10) to keep Curry fresh. Based on his play at the end of last season, I think Charles can be trusted — as long as JJack is on the court whenever Curry sits.

deano

G$: Great points. I agree with all.

sartre

Yay, Minny lose to Raptors. The dubs need them to falter while Love and Rubio are out.

MT III tweets:

“Check out this stat. Carl Landry has scored 28 points in the fourth quarter so far. David Lee has scored 30 points for the season”

“I fully expect David Lee to turn it up soon. Those 6 fourth-quarter rebounds were clutch vs Clippers”

meir: You’ve now fully relapsed into babbling idiocy; to paraphrase a famous coach at a post-game presser: “You play to win the game.”

Now that it’s Curry’s show to run, the Kid’s finally starting to act like a floor leader — willing the team forward. He’s hardly perfect, and he’s got a long ways to go, but your self-induced myopia precludes you from seeing — and enjoying — what’s happening before your very eyes.

It used to be that, particularly with Nelson-Notso at the helm, you reserved your carping at Curry for losses; now, even when he leads us to victories on the road you choose to snipe, snipe, snipe — as if winning were an inconsequential result.

Try enjoying the forest; don’t just focus on your favorite pissing tree. If you’d just think about it, you’d quickly realize you’re the real loser here. Unless, that is, per believewhat, you also think Magic and Isiah were stinkeroo PGs.

But anyone who doesn’t think Curry “saw” what was gonna happen — realizing how unlikely Paul would pass to the weak FTing Griffin (good note, OT) — or that he wasn’t very well set for that charge either wasn’t watching closely, has his own agenda, or simply doesn’t know the charging rule. (Heck, even Steinmetz lauded Curry’s prescience on the play.)

And Curry knew immediately that it was a charge and it was “game over” — just look at his body language. And by the uncharacteristically bitchy words CP chose to use after the game, disparaging our D, Paul did, too. (Sure, he wanted the call, but he knew he was out-smarted — and beaten by Curry. The next “face-off” between the two should be a ton of fun.)

gmoney: You said it better than I: we’re playing a much more “open” PG game — which plays to our strengths and minimizes our weaknesses. Having Jack — but also Landry (and no one had this better than you, gmoney) — affords us this opportunity.

Makes for a more fun game, too.

JanG

Two things to be aware of with this ‘new’ W team vs the old group. Nellie would never have started two rookies and he never would have fouled at the end of the game and up by 3. Although I always thought highly of Nellie, these two coaching principles always perplexed me.

The Oracle

G$
Good post but I really think the multi guard sets are all related to Curry not being 100%, and MJ trying to find a way to get him going off the ball.

I personally prefer a strong PG who runs the show. I hated the Monta/Curry PG sharing situation. I don’t think I would like it any better with Jack/Curry.

It’s Curry’s job to lose. And should be. Finally. But he’s obviously not 100%. And agree with others, given he’s not at 100% stupid to play him that many minutes btob.

El Topo

G$,

Very nice post @260

Believewhat

I actually like Klay at SF. He is pulling boards, setting up his teammates well etc.. I watched OKC game last year and thought for few possessions he guarded Durant well. Even in terms of speed I think SF suits him better. Rush’s minutes will go to Jefferson, Barnes and Green. I think we can overcome his loss. Jax shouldn’t overplay anyone in the roster and hope FO will get another big body so Jax don’t use lack of big guy as excuse to play Lee at C. Tyler should get like 5-10 mins stints in few games so we can evaluate his play to either keep him or waive him off and give roster spot to someone else.

sartre

Believewhat, I hope Thompson keeps this rebounding up, the team needs good rebounding across all its positions. Thompson was a below league average rebounder for a SG or SF last season but had his best rebounding rate when playing SF. According to 82games data he scored more points than his opponent as a guard and less as a SF. Defense is hard to judge but my eyeball impression is that he can struggle with the athleticism and size of opposing SFs more than SGs (who he at least can bother with his length).

Francis

By looking at the performance of Carl Landry, we should wondering how much we are overpaying David Lee!!

monsta

Mikael Pietrus doesn’t currently have a job.

El Topo

Meir,

You must be a genius for seeing that Curry is only fit for the 6th man role, a la Terry. Obviously, coaches such as DNelson (a favorite of yours), KSmart, and MJackson are basketball ignoramuses for thinking Curry is a PG.
Same applies to the FO — West, Myers, Lacob.

Yes — these people can’t see that Curry isn’t a real PG, so let us look at stats instead, perhaps they will show he’s not a PG.

Last year, the 5 PGs with the highest Turnover Rates were, in descending orde): (per hoopdata.com)

Curry was 16.4 and 17,0 last 2 years.
League avg for PGs was 16.6 last year.

Looking at TOs only, Curry is better than the guys I listed above and only slightly worse, than the average NBA PG.

Looking at Curry’s total rebounding rate, it has been above the league average for PGs for each of his 3 years.

Looking at Curry’s steals per game, it has been above the league average for PGs for each of his 3 years.

Looking at Curry’s defense (steals+blocks+charges), it has been above the league average for PGs for each of his 3 years.

Ah…but I hear you thinking: What about assists? They are part of your beloved A/TO ratio.

Last year, the top assist rate (assists*100/(FGA+(FTA*0,44)+TOs) PGs were Nash, Calderon, Rondo, Kidd, and Rubio. The league average for PGs was 40.9. Curry was at 36.2. So he was below average in assists. Why? 2 reasons: he was playing with Monta, and he’s such a good and efficient shooter that he need not always pass to a less competent shooter.

Let’s look at his scoring. Amazingly, he was at the top of eFG% in 11-12 for all PGs., and in 4th place for 10-11 BTW, that stat is (FGM+(0.5*3PM)/FGA

So statistically, Curry is the most, or one of the most, efficient scorer among all PGs in the NBA. So why would you want him to pass the rock to AB, Gladness, McGuire, et al.????

But Meir, I’m sure that you’re right and non-geniuses like the rest of us just don’t see it. Yes, Curry is no PG.

bryhsiao

Sartre. thanks for the Marcus II tweets.
I totally agree with him.
Great minds think alike I guess.

especially Curry just came back from a major injury and “some” here still dont see how he impacts a game and helps a team at PG even when his ast/to is not ideal yet. Learning a new position with a completely new roster will take time LONGER than 3 games.

Once Lee rounds into shape, Bogut gets to play 30mins every game, Curry for sure will get way more assists and be able to control his TOs by getting more familiar with the roster and the Coach.

“Jack, Curry, Klay 1, 2, 3 lineup, Jackson seems to like it” I LIKE IT IN SPOTS”

sartre

ET, you can lead meir with logic but you can’t make him think.

Curry also improved his assists rate across each season. You raise a good point – would you want a shooter as good as Curry focusing more on facilitating others? He is undersized for a SG so the team does need him to be a good play-maker in his PG role, but it is a matter of balance. Curry started last season being more turnover prone but that reduced as it progressed (while it lasted for him) and he had his first > 2:1 assists/to ratio.

JT

Hilarious. 3 games in and Curry should be demoted to the bench. 3 games. 3 games.

bryhsiao

EL Topo at #273.
Great post.

exposed Meir in front of everyone like the old days.
Seriously though I thought his health issue would help him look at positive things more instead of focusing on 1 negative thing.

All Curry needs now is to up his assists and in order to do that is getting to know where and when his teammates want the ball and make it easier for them to convert. (of course Lee has to convert when Curry had been dishing some nice ones. He had been stripped/blocked to oblivion the past 3 games)

Yes, I really think once the team gels, Curry will really shine at PG with his passing/vision.

Seriously though, it’s stupid to compare JJack vs Curry because
1. Jack plays with Landry for years and knows where to feed him very well. automatic assists from this combo
2. Jack is also pairing up with Curry alot and passing to Curry means assists. Same thing happened to Monta.

3. MJack is using Jack to bring the ball up for Curry to help him get his conditioning back. But the first qtr and 3rd he always stayed with our starting lineup however, our starting lineup really needs time to gel because they haven’t played together for long.

4. He is also a starter PG just last year that he can play and we should be happy about it.

I believe Meyers, JWest wont let SCurry play at SG long stretch and the coach better gets along with the program.

JT

It’s early in the season. Curry and Bogut missed large parts of the pre-season. Let’s give them a few games to get in shape and gel with the rest of the team.

Two very winnable game coming up.

Tired

Klay is still learning the SG position. But he is always in there trying to play defense, rebound and tap the ball out to other players. Klay is a keeper no matter how you look at it.

The ws already had to learn to play together with all their starters. Now the have to adjust to the loss of Rush. I think they are doing a pretty good job.

Thank goodness we picked up Jack and Landry. Experience matters.

I don’t think we can fairly say that we are playing any sort of SNSB. MJ is keeping at least one C or 2 PFs in the game at a time. We are also playing defense. 🙂

A great win for our team. it showed how much they hustle and how they are learning to defend.

It also showed why Jordan and Griffin are overrated and over paid.

I’m sure the Clips will win a lot of games, but they can be had. Their bench is also overrated.

meir34

Rick I’ve posted on +- to the extent of being borring. Sorry it bores me as well. But unless you control for different playing combinations, on both your team and the opponents, winning teams or losing ones, time of the game, eliminate garbage time stats and a whole long list of other variables unaccounted for in simple +- stats they are meaningless. G$ is right that we, probably by necessity, are trying a more open system with multipositional players, especially at guards and then forwards. And like some I’m not convinced of the ability for that to work very deep into the playoffs, though such considerations might be moot. I did take your comment, “The fact that Curry’s +/- has usually been very good may speak to his mastery of some subtleties.” to not exclude this season and I didn’t have or necessarily see your prior posts after those games. I agree he has skills and we should try to maximize those without losing out because of his weaknesses. Which, of course is why I’ve pushed for him being a Terry type sixth man not the pg. I’m leery of a weak driving, not particularly fast, short, outside shooter being a regular 2, even if he clearly does better from that position. It’s likely the three guard, by definition small line-up team, especially without some superstar on it, finding opposing line-ups that would give it serious trouble.

monsta

I liked the g$ point about the guard rotation. OT is right, it’s partly due to Curry being a little out of shape, but I think we all fall into the trap of thinking that it’s always one person, one position. But that’s not the NBA now. Changing it up, having Curry move without the ball sometimes, that means the other team doesn’t know what to expect. With Jack and Curry able to play either position, that opens the game up, especially given their two different styles. Like having a change of pace running back tandem.

monsta

meir = oh-please-stop

glad you feel better, i was worried about you just like many on this board were, but dude, basketball is not your forte

Our Team

Tired, you are right on. As last night showed, in Q4 of close games, Clips have to go with CP or Crawford or Billups when he returns. Unless Griffin develops a reliable shot and free throw, they can’t go to him, and forget about going to Jordan late. I don’t see Odom coming back strong, either. They are one-dimensional on offense and as good as CP is, I don’t see them as a top four team. Also, LAC’s D is substandard. Memphis is much better IMO, for example.

Reading CP’s above tweet about Steph’s D, and given the chippy ness of that game, I can’t wait for our next game against LAC. When Bogut returns, I actually think we match up well with them. Who are they going to have guard CL, KT and HB? They have no answer for those guys.

rigged

Hhmm. Big line up or small ball still for MJax?

If Bogs gets going, will MJax play Festus and Bogs together at times?..or will MJax keep 2 of his big guys on the floor at all times?

If all of our bigs are healthy, I don’t see any reason MJax should resort to playing a small line up 🙁

Just wondering…

monsta

The Warriors box score shows Biedrins playing zero (0) minutes, but that was long enough to commit a personal foul — and his plus-minus was -3

But hey, no turnovers. His assist-to-turnover ratio was pretty great

RickP

The basic problem with the notion that Curry should be a sixth man is that the long term +/- figures indicate that he was quite successful, in the context of a poor team, at PG.

Meir, you wrote a long response, but you did not address this point. I agree with you that a few games this season are not interpretable — which is why I didn’t originally bring them up.

I think the key to understanding Curry is to focus on the results and keep an open mind about how he accomplishes them. He is not a PG in the Hardaway, or even the Chris Paul tradition, but the numbers indicate that he has his own way to get the job done effectively.

earl monroe

Warriors should get Kenyon Martin for the minimum, they can use more toughness

JanG

I found the Clip game very interesting from a few perspectives. Firstly, the W’s pulled to a sizable lead with primarily outside shooting. I knew this would not hold up as it never does. Not by design and even with new personnel, the W’s still reach, grab, and smack on defense instead of moving their feet and getting into position. We’ve seen this for many years and nothing has changed. What has changed is that the slower pace of the offense, fouling, and better rebounding has given the opposition fewer shot attempts, disrupted their rhythm, and has kept the W’s with a lead. Of course, without Monta or a real go to guy, everyone has the green light to take their man and look for the open shot. HBarnes was huge in the last few minutes as was Jack. So was Landry and his work around the offensive rim, IMO, makes all the difference. And with a fairly deep bench, this team can absorb foul trouble and still remain competitive. In previous years, there was no one behind AB. Now, should he be fortunate enough to get a run, he could foul at will without consequences.

If the W’s can figure out how to get to the line more, we will win many more games this year.

Our Team

A key for us will be Barnes and Thompson driving to the rim. You can see that the coaches are stressing that with them. If they develop that and we continue to improve our defense, we will be hard to beat.

I think Monta Ellis should be (and should have been) used in a “Jason Terry-type role.” Monta Ellis is a midget-two guard who is an inconsistent defender on a good day (I’m being nice) and scores points like the wind – of course at the expense of team ball movement. Which is what I think of Jason Terry and his game. A great 6th man scorer off the bench. Like Lou Williams.

Stephen Curry is a more gifted passer than Monta Ellis, plays in the flow of good ball movement, plays with good court sense (high basketball IQ), looks for the open player (other than just dribbling around looking for his own shot), and a better (and more willing) ballhandler than Monta Ellis.

When healthy – there aren’t many point guards I’d rather have on my team.

When injured, I wish the W’s had traded him for Rajon Rondo when we had the chance!!! LOL!

Carl Landry is a start to change the free throw disparity in the W’s favor. He likes to play inside, do the dirty work, and draws fouls. Landry’s averaged over 5 free throws per game early in his career.

Back to Richard Jefferson – in his younger days – averaged 7-8 drawn free throws per game.

Let’s hope Harrison Barnes can be more aggressive slashing to the rim and drawing fouls. Just checked his college stats. Harrison averaged 5.3 foul shots per game in his 2nd year at North Carolina…

The rest of the Warriors – haven’t been good at getting to the free throw line.

TK is pumped about our rebounding differentials and defense this season.

We are getting 5.3 rebs more than our opponents this year and getting 12 more rebounds than last year. !!

YES!!

“The Warriors got 6.6 fewer rebounds per game than their opponents last season.

This year, they’re getting 5.3 rebounds MORE than their opponents.

That’s 12 more rebounds a game that the Warriors are getting–vs. the opponent total–this season than they were getting last season.
“

PardonMyDrivel

Why is Steph Curry being moved to SG on crucial times? He was supposed to “the Man” on crunch times. I don’t believe that the Coach is trying to maximize Currys talent because Curry is too small, a weak spot for the team on the floor if Curry continues to play as a SG. I am not downgrading Steph Currys ability. The fact that I don’t agree playing Steph for what, 43 min? This is jeopardizing Currys health since he is still trying to comeback to his usual form. I’m sure the Coach is aware of this. SCurry won’t match on the likes of Kobe, JHardens, DWades or Allens at the Sg spot. I’d rather have a Monta Ellis than SCurry play that position, if that’s the case.

I want to see some PT for Kent Bazemore and see what he got. KThompson substituted by KBazemore is the conventional and the ideal kind of game. This is their natural position. They’ve got a very promising SG in Klay Thompson who could defend much better with the bigger and taller counterparts. KBazemore needs some burn. Who else do they got? They need to develop a replacement for BRush. If this Coach would insist on going small on critical periods, when they need a basket, this team has got all the shooters it can called for at every position. I don’t see much play calling from the bench. Playing the game ‘on the fly’ with players that are still knowing each others game is absurd. Mark Jackson seems to be at lost most of the time when they need a basket. He himself is obviously a stranger to his players.

Good thing, his assistants, most notably this past game, Pete Myers is very much engaged. Makes me wonder who really is calling the play; is the players themselves on their own volition or with the help of the assistant coaches? Without Malone and Myers, I don’t think MJackson could come out with a decent game as the season goes on. We’ll see.

Steph Curry is the Man for this team. He should lead each and every play. He is not an NBA type of a Shooting Guard. They are lucky their offense clicked in the first qtr. Almost all from their outside shots but not every nite is Christmas. The players willed it among themselves to win this Clips game, for Brandon Rush. How I wish they would play this kind of emotions on every nite, every whole game thru. What about if their emotions gets drained?

I can’t think of anything else with what I see and hear from this Coach. Mark Jackson has got to be creative with the amount of talent he got in his hands. This roster is deep at every spot you look into. It all depends on how they will be brought out into the game.

IMustBreakU

OK, OK,

Now on to The Kings tonight. I like the combo of Bogut/Ezeli vs. Cousins. Actually, I prefer the idea of Ezeli starting this game and hear me out.

Bogut is still trying to get his conditioning, footwork and scoring going. What better way than for him to get in the game once there is no one there to stop him?

What I’m suggesting is that I’ve already gained confidence enough in Ezeli that I feel he could at least cancel Cousins out and prevent him from doing too much offensive and rebounding damage. Play Ezeli long enough untill either Cousins takes a blow, or Ezeli gets into foul trouble.

This is the point I bring in Bogut. Let Bogot go off once Cousins is off the court.

In the recent past its been Marcus Thornton that has given us fits vs. the Kings. That’s the dude we have to watch.

Otis

The nice thing about having a glut of good point guards is that it doesn’t matter who’s at the point – for a while it can be Curry, then Jack, then Jenkins – Jack or Curry can play the two – doesn’t matter. You couldn’t really tell last year with the Thunder who the point guard was – sometimes Harden, sometimes Westbrook.
We have good guard play from smart, talented players (when healthy). Monta was great to watch, but he made his teammates shrink.
Klay is a better fit.
Larry Kruger said on KNBR this morning that trading Monta for Bogut was like the Giants trading Madison Bumgarner for a broken down slugger who can only play every other day.
Thereby proving his utter ignorance.

earl monroe

who is larry kruger?

IMustBreakU

Exactly!

JT

Anyone that thinks the trade was bad hasn’t watched one second of Warriors basketball this year with Bogut in the game. Kruger is an idiot. Not surprised that they paired him with Radnich.

The Warriors essentially got Barnes, Ezeli, and Bogut for Ellis. With increased roles for Curry and Thompson. That is an absolute steal.