Hello,
I have an 11MM Mauser rifle and a Canadian Ross rifle and I am wondering how much are worth and some history. I would like to find these a good home so I can buy a couple of .22 rifles for my kids so they can learn to shoot. They are getting a .22 for christmas they just don't know it yet. :)

The first rifle is the 11mm Mauser, a 71/84. It has a four digit serial number and has a bunch of crowns and symbols plus the year 1888 stamped on the receiver near the side of the bolt. It is stamped with the word "SPANDAU". Some of the numbers (like the bolt and one of the bands around the stock) do not match but I am told that is common on rifles from this period that were in military service.

The rifle has been in storage for a long time and has some rust near the rear sight and some pitting on the outside. It has a bayonet lug. I have a couple of boxes of 385 grain RN lead for it but to be honest I don't know if it is safe to shoot it.

The second rifle is a Canadian Ross in 303 British. It has a straight pull bolt and has the year 1905 stamped on the receiver. I will post pics if it will help.

Jim Watson

October 13, 2006, 08:56 AM

SOG is advertising 71/84 Mausers for $280.

There are a couple of Ross rifles, one 1905, on Gunbroker.com
You could follow those auctions and see what they go for.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=58374480
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=58082050

There is one on Gunsamerica.com with an asking price of $950 but it is probably that high because it is an unusual US marked rifle.

Mike Irwin

October 13, 2006, 09:19 AM

Be VERY careful if you decide to try to fire the Ross rifle.

The ability to improperly assemble the bolt in some models means that the bolt doesn't lock into the action properly, but it can still be fired.

At that point the bolt can exit the gun, hitting the shooter in the face.

Tamara

October 13, 2006, 12:44 PM

Be VERY careful if you decide to try to fire the Ross rifle.

The ability to improperly assemble the bolt in some models means that the bolt doesn't lock into the action properly, but it can still be fired.

That only applies to Ross Mk. III rifles, with their interrupted-thread bolt heads. These weren't made until 1911, so I'd reckon that it shouldn't worry anybody who owns a Ross marked "1905"...

...unless they have a connection to teh Intarw3bs. ;)

Tamara

October 13, 2006, 12:48 PM

SOG is advertising 71/84 Mausers for $280.

Yes, but (as the proud owner of one) I can attest that they look like hammered crap.

The SOG guns have driven the market down somewhat, but a good Gew. 71/84 that doesn't look like it came up off a U-boat wreck and doesn't have a stock that was attacked by angry beavers should fetch four bills, especially if it has some ammo with it...

Harley Nolden

October 13, 2006, 12:48 PM

Taken from Military Small arm 20 Century
Ian V. Hogg and John Weeks
Fully revised 6th edition

The name of the manufacturer, is stamped on the top flat of the breech end of the barrel on both models, along with a crown. The year of manufacture is stamped on the right wall of the receiver bridge. Serial numbers are stamped on the receiver ring The number 11 stamped over the chamber indicates caliber 11mm.

Modified l871 SS to a tube magazine

The Mauser's, Peter Paul and Wilhelm, began building working on improving the Dreyse needle rifle, at that time, 1860's a widely used breech-loading military arm. Its firing mechanism had a
long needle like firing pin which had a long needle like firing pin which had to penetrate the paper cartridge case and powder charge to detonate the primer, positioned at the base of the bullet. About the same time they converted the action to use a metallic cartridge, its primer was located in the case head.

In 1867 the Mauser brothers, Paul & Wilhelm, built some rifles on actions of their own design incorporating these new features, but failed to sell the new rifle design. There was however, and
American arms salesman, Samuel Norris, representing Remington, heard of their rifle and thought it showed promise.

Norris negotiated a partnership with the Mauser brothers and had it patented in the US. This patent, #78-603, was granted to Norris and the Mauser brothers on June 2, 1868.

The model 71 was the first successful rifle designed and produced by Paul Mauser. Its success started a long career of firearms development which eventually led to the Model 98 Mauser action. The Model 98 rifle system was considered the best turnbolt rifle ever designed.

The Mauser brothers eventually won a contract to produce this rifle, after being tested and adopted by the Prussian Army in 1867. A new contract was presented in 1874 for 100,000 M71's. The Mauser brothers also granted licenses from other arms makers, which began producing M71's in large numbers. These rifles were also, made by various German government
arsenals at Amberg, Danzig, Erfurt and Spandau. The Steyr gun maker also built these rifles in their Austrian arms plant for the Chinese and Japanese empires.

Sir Charles Ross designed his straight pull rifle in 1896 and patented it in the following year. After his designing of several sporting models, 1897-1902, the Canadian Dept of Milita and Defendce adopted in for the Northwest Mounted Police in 1902.

The Ross rifle was tested extensively by Britain in 1900-1912 and on each occasion it was rejected for use as a service weapon for the Army. It was opinionated by the commandant of the Small Arms School at Hythe that the rifle was a target rifle, and would not with stand the riggers of a service rifle.

In spite of this opinion, the Canadian Army of 1914 went to war with the Ross, however, by 1915 the troops had lost confidence in it andwere abandoning it in favor of the Lee_Enfield rifles
picked up on the battle field.

There were many many minor variations to the Ross rifles, mainly because Ross was constantly tinkering with the design in attempts to improve it. Some authorities recongnise no less than 85
variations.

Jim Watson

October 13, 2006, 01:05 PM

That only applies to Ross Mk. III rifles, with their interrupted-thread bolt heads. These weren't made until 1911, so I'd reckon that it shouldn't worry anybody who owns a Ross marked "1905"...

That was my recollection, too, of an old article more objective than alarmist. It also said that it takes a definite twist of the bolt head with the bolt out of the gun to get it to where it will close but not lock, that it brings the bolt head back to the bolt body instead of extended to where it will cam locked as the bolt is closed, and that it takes more than usual effort to get the bolt back into the receiver. Details and pictures in Rifle Magazine No 187, Jan-Feb 2000 by Ross Seyfried.

Another old piece, I think in a Gun Digest of the '60s or '70s, said that there is enough of the bolt head showing as the bolt closes that you can see it turn into engagement if it is aligned right, and not turn if it is aligned wrong.

That falls under the heading of nearly foolproof but not damfoolproof. Kind of along the lines of "Why not to ram an 8mm cartridge into your low number Springfield."

UniversalFrost

October 13, 2006, 03:08 PM

have a stock that was attacked by angry beavers

Sorry to get off topic, but I almost spilled coffee all over the keyboard reading this. I will try an post some pics of an old stevens model 58 20 gauge that was infact attacked by beavers (or some type of animal with large teeth that likes to gnaw) while in the possession of the previous owner many years ago (I have owned it for the last 18 and my golden retriever never gnawed on it (did pee on it while it was leaning against the truck once and boy is it hard to get out dog pee smell from a wood stock):o . This gun should have been put donw years ago, but it still is my favorite (was my first shotgun) and I will be hard pressed to not drag this sucker along hunting instead of the 1187, citori or the many other shotguns.

Kid Kwik

October 13, 2006, 06:58 PM

Thank you for your replies and information.

Regarding the Mauser:
There is an "F.W." and symbols to the left, right, and a crown on top of that.

I can't find an 11 near the chamber but I found a 10.95 there on the left hand flat surface forward of the chamber.

It is an "I.G. Mod. 71/84." according to the markings.

Regarding the Ross:
This one does not have an exposed magazine. It is all encased in wood. My stock is a dark wood finish. It seems to be in pretty good shape. Quite a bit better than the Mauser.
Markings state
"Ross Rifle Co. Quebec Canada 1905."

Below that it says "Patented"

Where do they put the serial number on these things? I can't find one. My wife has the camera so I can't take pictures right now. I will either post them in the thread or host them on Putfile and leave links later.

It also has a hole and a hollow space in the stock. Did they put cleaning kits in there or something?

Mike Irwin

October 13, 2006, 10:29 PM

"That only applies to Ross Mk. III rifles, with their interrupted-thread bolt heads. These weren't made until 1911..."

That's why I said ONE of the models, instead of offering positive ID on which one. I couldn't remember which it was.

"I think in a Gun Digest of the '60s or '70s, said that there is enough of the bolt head showing as the bolt closes that you can see it turn into engagement..."

Yes, IF you know to look for it. If you don't, you may also think that the difficulty in getting the bolt back into the receiver isn't out of the ordinary.

One of my coworkers at American Rifleman had a fine collection of Commonwealth military rifles, including every Ross military variant and a couple of sporting Rosses, as well. He showed a couple of us how the bolt could be reassembled incorrectly. Kinda scary.

As Mike says, putting an incorrectly assembled 1910 bolt back in is pretty difficult, but then some folks just haven't figured out that if you have to use force to put a gun together (or get it apart), it is better to back off and think whether something is wrong.

That bolt business does seem to have happened once, but I rather doubt it happened more often. Even though one death from a faulty rifle seems insignificant in view of the huge numbers of dead from enemy action and disease, it is the kind of story that can spread, and grow as it does, until it becomes a morale factor.

Jim

Mike Irwin

October 16, 2006, 12:31 AM

The same coworker had a picture of a Canadian soldier with a Ross bolt stuck in his face.

Pretty grusome.

T. O'Heir

October 18, 2006, 03:18 AM

Come by http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/ for good info on the Ross.