The Day of Judgment

When I was a Christian, one of the most frightening and intimidating aspects of the faith was the dreaded judgment day, where God (or Jesus, depending on who you speak too) will judge you and send you to either heaven or hell for all eternity. What better way to keep someone in line by threatening them with a judgment?

Because I am no longer a Christian, I no longer believe in a day of judgment. In fact, I find the whole idea to be very juvenile. If you go through life seeing it as a trial, then the view of a judgment makes sense. If you go through life seeing it as an opportunity to learn and grow to become a better individual, the idea of a day of judgment becomes...well...silly.

My own views on judgment are not however, the focus of this article. What I do want to call in s the fact that the whole day of judgment may not be as simple as some may think it will be (that is, if it actually happens). How so?

In January of 2006, I was just starting to go through what is commonly termed, the dark night of the soul, where one struggles to find how they fit in with the world in terms of what the believe, what they view as truth, and how they fit in with the overall scheme of things. As those who have gone through it can attest, it is not an easy time at all. It is draining emotionally because you don't know where you are going. You are, in a way, like a ship without a rudder.

Yet, as I have discovered, in the moments of greatest darkness, the wonderful spark of inspiration is at it's brightest.

One day, I was browsing a website called godandscience.org I was, needless to say, a bit baffled at what was being put forth (such as how dinosaurs went on the ark with Noah). But one page in particular caught my attention and practically made my blood boil when I read it. Here it is (originally taken from this link: http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/goingtoheaven.html).

*"I am the Lord your God. Richard Deem, give me an account of your life.""Lord, I did my best and led an exemplary life. I never was physically involved with any of my girlfriends. I was a Scout leader for years. I tried to help people in some way almost every day. I did a lot of other good things - I'm, sure you know all about them.""Richard, have you ever lied?""I tried to tell the truth all the time and was almost always honest.""Richard, have you ever lied?""Yes, Lord. I have lied some.""Richard, what do you call a person who lies?""A liar, Lord.""Richard, what does my word say about liars?""It says that all liars will be sent to hell, Lord.""Richard, have you ever taken anything that is not yours?""Lord, You know that I am an honest person.""Richard, have you ever taken something that belonged to someone else?""Yes, Lord.""Richard, what do you call someone who takes something that belongs to another?""A thief, Lord. I am a thief.""Richard, what does my word say about thieves?""It says that no thieves will enter into heaven, Lord.""Richard, have you ever wanted something that belonged to someone else?""Yes, Lord.""Richard, what does my word say about people who want things that belong to others?"It says they are coveting, Lord""Richard, what does my word say will happen to those who covet?""It says that no covetous people will enter into heaven, Lord.""Richard, have you ever killed anybody?""Of course not, Lord.""Richard, have you ever hated anybody?""Yes, Lord.""Richard, what does my word say about people who hate others.""It says that they are guilty of murder in their heart.""Richard, what does that make you?""I'm a murderer, Lord.""Richard, have you ever called anybody a fool?""Yes, Lord, but he was really stupid.""Richard, what does my word say about people who call others a fool?""It says that they shall be guilty enough to go into hell.""Richard, have you ever committed adultery?""Absolutely not, Lord.""Richard, have you ever lusted after a woman?""Yes, Lord.""Richard, what does my word say about those who lust after a woman?""It says that he has already committed adultery with her in his heart.""Richard, what does that make you?""I am an adulterer, Lord.""Richard, what does my word say will happen to adulterers?""It says that no adulterers will enter into heaven, Lord.""Richard Deem, are you ready for me to pronounce sentence?""Wait, Lord. What about all the good things I have done.""Richard, are you pleading not guilty to the above crimes?""No, Lord. I am guilty."*

What do you notice about this article? I noticed the following.

1. Richard is a wimp. He does not even try to defend himself.2. God is a incredibly stern judge: Is this the God of love and mercy that Christians talk about? Looking over this article, my answer is no.3. This "god" is an asshole. Why? Because this god has impossible-to-reach standards that nobody can ever, ever, ever reach. If God is supposed to be perfect, then would God be without human frailties? (That’s a subject for another time).

And here's the little afterward by the author of this article:

*So, do you think you are going to get into heaven on the basis of your good behavior? The above exchange illustrates the futility of attempting to earn your way to heaven. No amount of good works is going to exonerate your guilt before the Holy God. My (and your) guilt is based upon the things we do against God's laws. It works the same way our criminal justice system works - if you are guilty of a crime, you go to jail. It doesn't matter how many good things you have done.

Now, maybe you have never done any of the things above… The rest of us realize that we have a BIG problem. I came to this realization upon reading Jesus' Sermon on the Mount from Matthew chapter 5. I realized that I needed a Savior to take away my sin. That is the only way I could appear before God without guilt. Jesus Christ died to take away my (and your) sin, so that we could be righteous before God. The Bible says you must receive Jesus Christ as your Lord (i.e., boss) and Savior. This means that you repent (turn from your sin) and believe that Jesus died for your sin. You also agree to follow Jesus to become more like Him. He will give you true joy in this life and eternal life with Him afterward.

*

Going over this article again four months later, this has all the appearances of a cult. Threats, warnings, fear, etc. But in this case, it's an organized religion, not a cult (then again, that's debatable). If this is what fundamentalists use to gain new converts, then the collapse of Christianity cannot come soon enough.

After reading this whole article for the first time, I was frightened. Then the fear turned to being upset. And then that turned to anger at the fear this article was trying to put into me. Then it was flat-out rage. So I decided that I should do what any angry, furious person should do in a time like this...

Poke fun at the article!

After all, isn't laughter the greatest medicine? Does joy and laughter not disperse fear quickly?

And so I quickly typed out the following article, and it indeed cured me of my anger. Though I still had a few more months of the dark night of the soul to go through, at least there was a little victory that had been won.

My purpose in bringing this article before you is to show that being saved is not as clear cut as one might think. I also wish for people to consider the popular notion that God will judge everyone and only those who have heard of Jesus and accepted his offer will be saved.

And it does go without saying that if you are a follower of the Christian faith, this might be offensive to you

"Well, I did my best and led the best life I could! I never was physically involved with any of my girlfriends. I was a Scout leader for years. I tried to help people in some way almost every day. I did a lot of other good things - I'm, sure you know all about them."

"Ian, have you ever lied?"

"I tried to tell the truth all the time and was almost always honest."

"Ian, have you ever lied?"

"Well, yes. I have lied sometimes."

"Ian, what do you call a person who lies?"

"A liar."

"Ian, what does my word say about liars?"

"Which one?"

"What?"

"Which book?"

"You don't know?"

"Well, there is the bible...but there is also the book of Mormon, the torah, the Qur’an, etc. And each of them claimed to be the source of your wisdom. So you know, I never really got into any of them. By the way, which one was the correct one?"

"Uhh...let's not go there. What does the bible say about liars?"

"Hmm...uhh...which part? Last time I counted there were quite a lot of stuff to say about liars."

"Okay fine, what does Revelation 21:8 say about liars?"

"Hang on a sec, let me look it up...uh oh."

"What does it say?"

"It says that liars will have thier place in the fiery lake of burning sulfur."

"That is correct. Now, have you lied during your life?"

"Well, to be honest God, yes I did."

"Then i'm afraid you know what happens to those who lie."

"Wait a minute."

"What?"

"What about the people who lied to save the Jewish people from the Nazis during world war 2? Are they going to hell?"

"Well..."

"And according to Psalm 116:11, New King James version, all men are liars. Now, I have a question for you."

"What is it?"

"Does that mean that Jesus is going to the lake of fire?"

"No he's not."

"But he was a man. Therefore, he was a liar because all men lie. The bible says it right there, clear as day."

"But I was Jesus. I took form on earth."

"You know, I never got that. But if you took on human flesh, you were therefore a man, and thus you are a liar. Does that mean that you're going to hell?"

"Uh...lets move on."

"But what about all the apostles? What about the thieves who died next to Jesus? What about..."

"Enough. Ian, have you ever taken anything that is not yours?"

"God, you know that I tried to be an honest person."

"Ian, have you ever taken something that belonged to someone else?"

"Well God, yes. When I was a young child, I did take things that did not belong to me."

"Ian, what do you call someone who takes something that belongs to another?"

"A thief, God."

"Ian, what does my word say about thieves?"

"Which word?"

"Do we have to do this again? The bible."

"Why not the book of Mormon?"

"Let's just stay with the bible. What does it say about thieves?"

"Hmm...If a man shall steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it; he shall restore five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep."

"No, not that one."

"Okay...If thieves came to thee, if robbers by night, would they not have stolen till they had enough? If the grape gatherers came to thee, would they not leave some grapes?"

"Hang on a second God. I did take things that belonged to me, but I eventually realized that it was wrong and I stopped doing that.

"Noted. Now, Ian, have you ever wanted something that belonged to someone else?"

"Of course. That happens to everyone at one point or another."

"Ian, what does my word say about people who want things that belong to others?

"The bible right?"

"Yes."

"Well, it appears to say they are coveting, God."

"Ian, what does my word say will happen to those who covet?"

"Well, it says that no covetous people will enter into heaven. So does that include every single baby who ever lived? After all, every baby at one point or another wants something that doesn't belong to them."

"Ian, have you ever killed anybody?"

"Hey wait a minute. You didn’t answer my question about the babies."

"Be quiet. Now Ian, have you ever killed anybody?"

"Of course not, God, and I’m glad."

"Ian, have you ever hated anybody?"

"Well, yes. There were a good amount of people I hated during my life on earth, but considering what they did to me, which included insulting me, putting me down and poking fun at me and my beliefs every chance they got, I’m not surprised that I did hate them. Luckily, I’m glad I got over hate later in life. Sure there was anger, but the hate was gone. I bet you're happy about that!"

"Ian, what does my word say about people who hate others."

"Hmm... Let me look it up..."

"Good grief, didn’t you ever read my word?"

"Ah, so the bible was your word?"

"Just keep looking. I haven't got all day."

"Ah, here we go. It says that they are guilty of murder in their heart."

"Ian, what does that make you?"

"That doesn't make much sense."

"Excuse me?"

"Well, that doesn't make much sense. I was human and I occasionally got angry at people. I didn’t like some people, but I certainly didn’t want to kill them. Yet according to the bible, hating someone is the same as murdering someone, when it's clearly not."

"Well, I put it in there, so it's correct."

"But in Luke 14: 26, Jesus says, and I quote, "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." So Jesus said that whoever wanted to be his disciple must hate his brother, yet later on John says that such a person is a "murderer" and will not go to heaven. Can you please explain that?"

*silence*

"Ian, have you ever called anybody a fool?"

"God, why won't you answer my questions?"

"Because I'm God, and I'll choose to answer what questions I will answer. Now Ian, have you ever called anybody a fool?"

"Yes I did God."

"Ian, what does my word...you know, the bible, say about people who call others a fool?"

"Well, I can't help but notice that Jesus often calls his critics and disciples fools. Therefore, that means he's going to hell."

"No he's not."

"Well, you said that whoever says "You fool!" will basically go to hell. So I guess you have to send Jesus to hell now."

"Be quiet. Now Ian, have you ever committed adultery?"

"Nope."

"Ian, have you ever lusted after a woman?"

"Of course God. My natural hormones worked perfectly as they tried to drive me to procreate and thus continue the survival of my species. In addition, I did fantasize about having a woman and giving her all the love and care I could give her. I wanted to spread love to the world, and I did like fantasizing about that."

"Ian, what does my word say about those who lust after a woman?"

"Well, it apparently says that he has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

"Ian, what does that make you?"

"Well, I guess that means that I am an adulterer. But...if those hormones of mine drove me to fantasize about women, and you created me, then why did you give me those sex hormones in the first place?"

"To make sure you could have children."

"Well that makes sense. But if those hormones that you created when you created man increases sexual drive, then I’m not really guilty here. I was simply following my hormones. Besides, wouldn't you be happy that I wanted to care and love someone?"

"Be quiet. You are an adulterer."

"But why did you make those hormones so susceptible in the first place?"

"So you could be tested to see if you would turn away from your sinful ways."

"Wait a minute. You want me to come to you and be with you forever because you love me, right? Then why did you create those sex hormones that are so susceptible? So you could test me? Knowing full well that I would fantasize, and knowing that simply having one thought about being with a woman is enough to send me off to eternal torture, pain, and suffering? Can you please explain that?"

"Ian, what does my word say will happen to adulterers?"

"You are avoiding my question God."

"Be quiet. Now Ian, what does..."

"That sounds pretty cheap. If someone has one simple daydream about being with a woman, he goes to eternal torture for all eternity, simply for following his bodily functions, which you invented if I do point out."

"Be quiet! Now, what does my word say will happen to adulterers?"

"Well, it apparently says that no adulterers will enter into heaven, God."

"Ian, are you ready for me to pronounce sentence?"

"Wait a second God. What about all the good things I have done? What about all the people I’ve helped? What about all the people I’ve entertained with my jokes? What about all those who I have loved and cared for?"

"Ian, are you pleading not guilty to the above crimes?"

"You're avoiding the question."

"I'm simply asking if you are pleading not guilty to the above crimes."

"You're avoiding my question about all the good things i've done."

"Answer the question!"

"Wait a minute, I just realized something."

"What?"

"According to Revelation 20, there's this bit here: "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

"What is the point you are trying to make?"

"Well, if I’m being judged according to my works, then are you counting in all my good ones?"

"No. You have sinned, and are thus worthy of hell."

"Yes, I have made mistakes. I have made errors. But I learned from them and moved on."

"And you sinned more."

"Boy, you have some really strict standards here."

"I cannot tolerate sin or evil. No one with sin comes before me."

"So, that includes a five month old baby who wanted something that wasn't hers?"

"Yes."

"Wow. Why do you have such impossibly high standards?"

"I'm God."

"So?"

"Are you pleading not guilty or not?"

"Why can't you forgive me?"

"What?"

"I'm sorry for what I did on earth. I learned from my mistakes, and I moved on from them. I'm sorry for what I did. Can you please forgive me? I'm sorry."

"I'm sorry, but it's too late. No one with sin comes into heaven with me."

"Why can't you forgive me? If you're all powerful, then surely it must be easy for you to forgive someone who is honestly sorry for what they've done."

"It's too late."

"Then apparently, you're not all powerful. I thought you were merciful."

"In some cases yes."

"Hmm... Interesting. You resemble a medieval tyrant more then anything else."

"Be quiet."

"No, I will not be quiet. I saw you throw the entire population of ancient Egypt into hell a few minutes ago because of their sins. Now, might I point out that according to your bible, the only way to go to heaven is to accept Jesus’ gift of salvation. Why did you create the souls of the ancient Egyptians, Mayans, Incas, and all those other civilizations who never even heard of Jesus?"

"Be quiet."

"And I saw you throw over six million Chinese families into hell half an hour ago. That's a lot of men, women, and children God. Are you pleased with chucking all those Chinese children and babies into hell because they didn’t accept Jesus’ gift of salvation?"

"I judge all people fairly."

"Wow. Your sense of justice is disgusting."

"Tough. I'm God. Now prepare for an eternity of unbearable pain and suffering."

"And that's your sense of justice? For making common human mistakes? For daydreaming about women? For being upset at people for what they did to me? For wanting something that wasn't mine?"

"Yes."

"Wow. You're even worse then Hitler, Stalin, and all the other evil guys in history combined. And to tell you the truth, you've got some impossibly high standards here. Why did you create imperfect creations and apparently expect them to be perfect?"

"That was why I sent my son."

"Ah, I see. So you can be the worst, most scum ridden person on the face of the earth, who murders, rapes, kills, and does terrible things, and yet you can accept Jesus and be saved."

"That is correct."

"What about those who never heard of Jesus?"

"Some will be saved, according to if they heard about Jesus or not."

"Wait a minute. According to that, it's apparently better to never hear about Jesus and be saved, rather then hearing about Jesus and running the risk of not be saved."

*Silence*

"And let me point this out. Ordinary people who do good works and help everybody every day in all the ways they can are condemned to eternal torture because they don't live up to your perfect standards."

"That is correct."

"Wow. You're even worse then I could have possibly imagined in my worst nightmares. A God who has impossibly high standards, yet will let people, including truly evil people, off the hook by accepting Jesus. And so they are apparently judged on their work of accepting Jesus, and thus judged on creed, not deed."

"In a way, yes."

"Wow. You're a pretty bizarre God. And people worship you? What on earth did this world come to?"

"Well, that doesn't matter now. Are you ready to go to hell?"

"No, because I’m off the hook."

"Excuse me?"

"I'm off the hook, and I can prove it."

"How? You didn’t accept Jesus’ offer of salvation."

"That's true, but officially, I haven't done anything wrong."

"How do you explain that?"

"Okay, let's open the bible and take a look. At the very end of 1 John 4:7-8, it says "God is love."

"That's true."

"Then, in 1 Cor. 13:4-8, it says, among other things that love keeps no record of wrongs. Now, if you are love as your book claims to be, then you have no record of any wrongs that I’ve done. Therefore, I’m off the hook and I don't have to go to hell."

"Now hold on there..."

"Wait, I’m not finished yet. 1 John 2:1-2 says this. "My children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father; Jesus Christ the Righteous. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world" So therefore, Jesus died for everybody. It's right there, plain as day. Jesus died for the sins of everyone. He took away the sins of everyone, and thus everyone is off the hook."

"Be quiet, I'm..."

"Oh no, not yet. I'm just getting started. "For to this end we toil and struggle, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe", right there at 1 Timothy 4:10."

"Then we have this. "Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord," will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in Heaven." at Matthew 7:21. Now, what is your will? Your will is law. And according to Luke 10:25-28, loving you and loving others is the law. Jesus said if we do this, we will live. Therefore, I loved you and I loved others, and now I am off the hook."

"And don't forget that each person will be rewarded according to his works. For example, in Matthew 16:27, we have this. "For the Son of Man is to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay everyone for what has been done." Therefore, if I have done more good then bad, then I will be rewarded for that. In Romans 2:6 we find, "For he will repay according to each one's deeds." The same principle applies. If someone loves you and loves others, then they will be repaid. Now, how do you answer all these?"

"I am your parent. I am your father. I must punish my children to set them straight."

"By sending them to be tortured for eternity? What kind of sick parent does that? Because a baby wanted something that wasn't hers, you're punishing her with an eternity of torture. Ditto for those who have had a daydream about being with a woman. If I may say so, you are the worst parent in all of existence."

"What?"

"Well, why are you judging me?"

"Because I am God."

"Well, according to John 5:22, "Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son.". So it should be Jesus judging me, not you. And don't forget that because Jesus was apparently a man, he was also a liar because all men lie. And don't forget that because he called people fools, he's also in danger of hell. I also just realized that because Jesus was also a baby, and babies inevitably want things that are not theirs, so Jesus as a baby wanted things that were not his. That's another reason you need to send him to hell."

"And I wish to point out that Jesus says in John 8:15-16, "You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me." And because God is love, and love keeps no record of wrongs, and thus guides Jesus while judging, then everyone is off the hook. Now, why are you judging me and not Jesus?"

*Silence*

"Well, let me continue. You're throwing people into hell for all eternity, right?"

"That is correct."

"Well God, you're going to eventually let us out, right?"

"No."

"Well, don't you know that in the original texts of the bible, eternal was a word that simply meant a long period of time? That it didn’t mean, literally, for all eternity? If you don't believe me "God", then why don't you look at this nifty article I found on the internet? http://www.godstruthfortoday.org/Library/thayer/DoctrineOfEternalPunishment005.htm The Greek adjective that our English Bibles translate as "eternal" or "everlasting" is "AIÓN or AIÓNIOS" which literally means "age-enduring" or perhaps "that which pertains to an age." I thought you would know that."

"Now wait a minute..."

"And when Jesus talked about "eternal punishment" in Matthew 25:46, the punishment he talks about is not eternal in the sense that it continues forever without accomplishing its corrective purpose. So if you're throwing us into hell for all eternity and never letting us out, then...can you explain that?"

"Be quiet!"

"No, no, I think I’ve heard and seen enough. You, our parent, are throwing us into eternal, never ending torture for having daydreams and a whole host of other normal conditions. You're judging everyone on how many sins they've done, not how many good deeds they've done. The real God may punish, if he punishes at all, but it's never forever. It's only until a person repents and turns to God. You, on the other hand...well, I don't know who you are."

*pause*

"Dangit!"

*phases out of existence*

"Wow, that was easy. Time to get a sandwich."

*

Oh, and if you are curious, what was the first Christian response when I posted this at a forum?

"If you were really to have an argument with God, you would never win. God is so smart will know what you will say before you say it. He will never be surprised by what you say, and he will know response."

*Discussion follows about a perfect justice system where all who hear about Jesus and accept his gift get off scott-free without taking responsibility for their actions*

It is my hope that this article has encouraged you to think and realize that nothing is black and white when it comes to religious doctrines regarding God, judgment, and salvation.

29 comments:

Anonymous
said...

*stands up and claps* Bravo!! :D

Don't forget that God supposedly can't be in the presence of sin, but he himself is a murderer. Christians will say, He's God, he can do whatever he wants. To which I reply, Then he can also choose to put me in heaven even if I reject Christ, because I live the kind of life he wants from his followers. Then they bluster about God's justice system and I talk about how either God is bound to rules or he isn't. All very amusing.

Unfortunately, they compartmentalize so well these points are lost anyway. Oh well, we non-believers sure get a kick out them!

I loved the way you re-wrote the question and answer session with God into satire. Satire can not only be funny but make us think. Thanks for the enjoyable post.I am Realist and not a believer in God. God brings to mind words such as submit, convert, wrath, Gods will, hell and judgment. But most of all it brings to mind the word FEAR which is what most religions use to control their flock. Fear of death, fear or God and his judgment, etc. I do not fear death, an since I finally can say that with truth, my life has become very calm. I refuse to fear the unknown but rather embrace it as just another adventure on this spinning mysterious planet. I do believe there is much we do not know and I have stopped pondering what death may bring. Because if this is all there is to life, and if at death its lights out -- it was more then good enough.Tim Rumford editor of www.priestsgonewild.com

Ian,We are all Homo Sapiens, but you have joined a sub species that does more sapienating than the average. You do realize don't you that you can never go back to that place where the evangelicals live?Dan (Who is out of the "Dark Night, and into the dawn, but it took me a lot longer than you)

Yea! Very well written and very well thought of. I think one of the problems is that, god failed to recognize his own written word, I think the problem must also lie at the hands of the writers.

Another thing one must consider is that it is estimated that over 10 Billion people have lived and died, not including the 6 Billion still living, so If every knee must bow and every mouth must confess, it took me about 10 minutes to read the second confessional, so if it takes 10 or 20 minutes for everyone to confess their sins, although I have led a simple life, with not many thrills, it would be so very boring for the other 20 Billion or so to have to set through and listen to every confession. And since it would not be fair for a just God to cast anyone into hell, without hearing their confessions, what will everyone be doing while all the judging and confessing is going on? Will there be enough Porta-jons to go around, how about seating and snacks? I mean, will it be like the Stadium at New Orleans, after Katrina?

I estimate that it would take 6.34 years at 10 minutes per person, per confessional, for 2 million people, now multiply that times 20 Billion people, that is providing it only takes 10 minutes per confessional, this does not include finding, locating and finding the right people and matching people with the right name or people with the same name, nor does it include people that speak different languages, and there must be an interpretor, nor does this include people that are deaf or blind, their names must be found somewhere and verified in the crowd, we would'nt want God to send the wrong person to hell.

Will God start with the A's first or the Z's...hmmm?

I think in the end God will just ask, All those that just want to go on to Hell and get it overwith, just raise your hands!

Or God may just say, You know what? It's all a bunch of man made shit, lets forget the whole damn thing. It's party time! Lets Boogey!

Oh my gaud!! I wonder what the christians have to say about this one? It is such a shame that the damn cult keeps a grip on people, with the famous line, DON'T QUESTION GOD. It kept me and alot of others just on the brink of realizing the whole thing is just a sham!! Well just as the expression goes, Hindsight is 20/20.

Personally though, I think you let god off easy. I meam, you could have brought up all the times that god has lied and killed and hated people - and don't think that Mary's cuteness didn't play a part in her being Jesus's mommy. So, how could he find fault with anybody else when he has so much to answer for himself? Man, your article NEEDS to be published!

As to the question of what the christian response to this was, it was what I put in the article (You wouldn't win an argument with God). After that, we went into a discussion of God's justice system (which I will talk about in a future article).

But in an interesting twist, my satire was satired. Here's what they put up.

*

Adam: Do think you are going to Hell.

Bob: No.

Adam: Why?

Bob: Because I am good.

Adam: What is the standard for being good?

Bob: Love

Adam: What does the Bible say needs to be the object of that love?

Bob: It says to love God and other people.

Adam: Do you think you meet that standard?

Bob: Yes.

Adam: How much does the Bible say you need love other people?

Bob: It says I need to love them as much as myself.

Adam: Who to you love more: yourself or Ned?

Bob: Well, Ned is such a jerk. He egged my car.

Adam: What did you do about it?

Bob: I got him back by slashing his tiers.

Adam: Is that an example of loving neighbor as much as yourself?

Bob: No. But he started it.

Adam: Does that justify your actions?

Bob: I guess not. But I do more good than bad. I am sure God will let me into Heaven.

Adam: Slashing tires is against the law. The penalty in this town for slashing tires is $10,000.

Bob: It is a good thing I did not get caught.

Adam: Ned saw you from a distance and he is now reporting you to the police.Bob: Oh no! I don’t have $10,000.

Adam: When you go to court do you think they will find you innocent or guilty?

Bob: Guilty.

Adam: You should go tell them that you have done more good than bad.

Bob: That is not going to work. None of that good stuff has any bearing on the crime I am being tried for.

Adam: Bingo! The same is true in God’s court. None of that good stuff erases the bad you have done.

Bob: Oh no!

Adam: Do you love God?

Bob: Yes I like him a lot.

Adam: The Greek word used for “love” in the Bible referring to the love you need to have for God is “Agape”. Agape is not a feeling. It is a commitment. Are you committed to God?

Bob: I guess so.

Adam: Do you pray to God?

Bob: I pray every time I buy lotto ticket.

Adam: Do you only pray to God in order for him to give you stuff?

Bob: Yes.

Adam: Do you often praise God and give Him the glory?

Bob: No.

Adam: Do you treat God like he is worth more than yourself?

Bob: Not really.

Adam: Do you ever take God’s name in vein?

Bob: Yes.

Adam: How much are you committed to God percentage wise?

Bob: About 50%. Ok, maybe 25%.

Adam: How much does the Bible say you need to love God?

Bob: It says I need to love God with all of my heart, mind, soul, and strength.

Adam: What does the word “all” mean in terms of percent?

Bob: 100%

Adam: Since you said you are committed to God 50% and the standard is 100% does that mean you missed the standard?

Bob: Yes.

The word sin literally means to “miss the mark”. Since you missed the mark of what is expected of you, that means you sinned. What do you call someone who sins?

Bob: A sinner

Adam: Are you a sinner?

Bob: Yes

Adam: Where do sinners go when they die?

Bob: The bad sinners go to Hell.

Adam: Is there such thing as a good sinner?

Bob: No.

Adam: So all sinners are bad sinners?

Bob: That is correct.

Adam: So you are a bad sinner?

Bob: I guess so.

Adam: Since you are a bad sinner, does that mean you are going to Hell?

Bob: I am not as bad as a lot of other people.

Adam: Does God grade on a curve?

Bob: That makes sense to me.

Adam: What human on this Earth had the highest score morality wise?

Bob: I guess that would be Jesus.

Adam: How well did He perform?

Bob: He was perfect.

Adam: How does your score compare to the perfect score of Jesus.

Bob: Not as good.

Adam: Even if God graded on the curve, you would still be in trouble.

Bob: I think God would be willing to forgive me.

Adam: Do you think the court will just forgive you for slashing Ned’s tiers, and not charge you the fine?

Bob: No. But I hope they do.

Adam: Would the court be just in doing that?

Bob: No. The law says they need to charge a fine if I am found guilty.

Adam: So the court must charge the fine in order to do its job properly?

Bob: That is correct.

Adam: I am willing to do you a favor.

Bob: What?

Adam: I am going to pay the $10,000 fine for you.

Bob: Thank you!

Adam: That solves your problem with your local court. But what are you going to do about God’s court?

Bob: I don’t know. Are you willing to get me out of that too?

Adam: I can’t help you their. The penalty for sin in God’s court is greater than money. It is death. I am guilty of sin too. There is only one person who can get you out of this mess. That is Jesus. He is making an offer similar to mine. He died on the cross to pay the penalty for our sin. Are you willing to except His offer?

Bob: How can Jesus help me if he is dead?

Adam: He did not stay dead. 3 days later he rose from the dead.

Bob: If Jesus is alive, where is he now?

Adam: After Jesus rose, he hung around Earth for a short while. Then he ascended up to Heaven. Some day he will come back. When he does he will raise many from the dead. Since Jesus has the power to raise himself from the dead, we can trust that he is able to raise us from the dead. Then we can have everlasting life.

Bob: How did Jesus get the power to do all of this?

Adam: Jesus is God.

Bob: How do I take advantage of this offer?

Adam: Do you realize your sin problem?

Bob: Yes.

Adam: Are you sorry for what you did?

Bob: Yes.

Adam: Do you realize Jesus is the only one who can save you from that sin.

Bob: Yes.

Adam: Do you believe that Jesus died on the cross, and rose from the dead?

Bob: Yes.

Adam: The forgiveness that comes from Jesus is not intended to be a license to sin as much as you want without worrying. Jesus does not just want to forgive you from your past behavior. He wants to change your character and improve your future behavior. Being forgiven from sin is not an end in itself. It is the beginning of a new life. By accepting Jesus’ offer, you are not just agreeing to let Jesus to forgive you. You are also agreeing to let God come into your life and guide you to be a better person. Are you willing to let Jesus be the leader of you life?

Bob: Yes

Adam: Are you willing to embrace Jesus as God.

Bob: Yes.

Adam: Then go tell Jesus all of this.

*

The main issues I noticed with this counter-satire is that it uses a black and white system of Justice.

It also ignores the idea of God being merciful and forgiving. It's pretty much just a slightly re-worded version of the original article that I satired.

As Obi-wan Kenobi said, "Only a Sith deals in absoloutes"

How many people would like me to do a follow up to this christian counter?

"The site does not at all say that there were dinosaurs on the ark. That is an outright lie."

Maybe YOU should read and stop calling people liers!

"they", (young earth creationist), "contend Noah took dinosaurs on the ark but they were not able to survive the harsh post-Flood conditions and went extinct"http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth/speciation.html

Corroberation of dinosaurs on ark

"In Genesis 6:19–20, the Bible says that two of every sort of land vertebrate (seven of the 'clean' animals) were brought by God to the Ark. Therefore, dinosaurs (land vertebrates) were represented on the Ark."http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2001/dinos_on_ark.asp

Also, http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/dino_ark.html

Are you one of the fundies who believe that dinos never even existed? or do you believe that these fossils were put on earth as a test of faith from your imaginary god?

Christians are so funny! I love how they talk about evil pagans who sacrifice children on Halloween (who makes this stuff up, anyway?) but have no issue with God nailing his own kid to a stake.

Bottom line, BibleGod's a hypocrite. He holds people to standards he can't live up to himself. Some all-powerful deity. Forgive seventy times seven? Love is patient and kind and keeps no record of wrongs? Thou shalt not kill? Yeah God, you first.

Who said they were? Freeman posted apparently similar items from two different Internet resources. This, in response to an anonymous posting that asserted that the quoted site "does not at all say that there were dinosaurs on the ark." The site does mention this very thing, albeit in a different context.

The fact that AiG and GaS do not agree on this point may have escaped him, but wouldn't you agree that as humans we make mistakes?

"We Christians are not all alike."

And most of us are not so ill-informed as to assert otherwise. Honestly though, the beliefs and behaviors are almost always predictable and follow the same general template.

In case you didn't notice, this site is called ExChristian.net. That means many of us are former Christians ourselves, so we don't need to be told what Christians are like, thanks.

"It is obvious by Ian's lack of integrity in keeping the lie on this page that he is not interested in the truth."

Ian does not control the content on this or any other page. He is not the webmaster. The WB is a guy named Dave who you can read about from the main page. So, even if Ian disagrees with something or thinks it's wrong, he cannot remove it. Nor is he required to correct anyone.

Read a bit more, find out what you're talking about, and give it some thought next time before you start flinging accusations.

Anonymous: "We Christians are not all alike. In fact, the site contains numerous articles that refute the nonsense found on Answers in Genesis. See Rebuttals to young-earth creation science."

Oh, pardon moi. Didn't realize that the GodAndScience.org were the "True Christians". Or, maybe they're just "smarter" christians, than some on other sites.

I know this is a deep one, but... how smart does one really have to be to have "faith" in the person that told them of "god"? "Faith" is "faith", all christians have "faith", if they truly believe in their religion, and "trust" the person and information they received is accurate and true.

Faith is measured on commitment, the more committed to the person who gave them their belief, the stronger the "faith", right. Its amusing to see varying christians point out eachothers' logical flaws, as, in the end both are doing nothing less, than attempting to show/prove who has the most correct origin of truth. And, both have an origin of "faith", in the person who told them of their religion, and its untestable standards.

So, what, it gets down to the most committed is the most "right", kinda' like the crusades all over again, or... something like, my supernatural beliefs, are more naturally and rationally supported than "your" supernatual beliefs. Once, a religious person jumps head first into faerie land, there is no, "I'm more logically right", than anyone else with supernatural beliefs.