Re: RPI 2017 Off-Season (Part II): Mr. Smith Goes to Troy

Some of them do, not all. Also that has nothing to do with whether they could have helped in the coach selection process. I think that they could, but banners are irrelevant.

Cmon Ralph youre making no sense. So trust Shirley and Lee and a search firm that has no hockey experience. There were no USHL coaches in the final four..really. You know the larger point, there were zero hockey people in this decision...zero. I hope Smith works out for you.

"Rick not want to be know as tough guy, Rick want to be known as team guy" Rick "Mongo" Bennett

Re: RPI 2017 Off-Season (Part II): Mr. Smith Goes to Troy

Originally Posted by AspyDad

Cmon Ralph youre making no sense. So trust Shirley and Lee and a search firm that has no hockey experience. There were no USHL coaches in the final four..really. You know the larger point, there were zero hockey people in this decision...zero. I hope Smith works out for you.

I really don't understand how one can correlate having a banner to being able to pick a good coach. That was my point, and it makes sense to me. I do agree that knowledgeable hockey people should have been involved in the search. I also don't trust Shirley in the least and I am not sure about Lee.

I hope that Smith works out for all of us.

SA was originally a great recruiter and was still a good one at the end. (Note, as Flaggie said, how long ago our recruit classes were near the top.) As to his coaching ability, he never demonstrated, as far as I could see, that he could coach well, and he was given ample opportunity.

Re: RPI 2017 Off-Season (Part II): Mr. Smith Goes to Troy

Originally Posted by Ralph Baer

I really don't understand how one can correlate having a banner to being able to pick a good coach. That was my point, and it makes sense to me. I do agree that knowledgeable hockey people should have been involved in the search. I also don't trust Shirley in the least and I am not sure about Lee.

I hope that Smith works out for all of us.

SA was originally a great recruiter and was still a good one at the end. (Note, as Flaggie said, how long ago our recruit classes were near the top.) As to his coaching ability, he never demonstrated, as far as I could see, that he could coach well, and he was given ample opportunity.

Re: RPI 2017 Off-Season (Part II): Mr. Smith Goes to Troy

Originally Posted by AspyDad

Cmon Ralph youre making no sense. So trust Shirley and Lee and a search firm that has no hockey experience. There were no USHL coaches in the final four..really. You know the larger point, there were zero hockey people in this decision...zero. I hope Smith works out for you.

Unless you were inside the search process you have no idea if a USHL coach applied for this position. Even if they had, would they have measured up to Ben Barr for you? That is clearly who you are stuck on here. Let's be honest about that, he was your choice. You also have no idea that there were ... as you put it "ZERO HOCKEY PEOPLE IN THIS DECISION". Again, without being on the inside you do not know who Lee's inner circle of advisors were on this choice. You're assuming there were no Alumni involved. You don't know that for a fact. All you know are the vocal ones that were quoted in the paper that didn't participate.

Dave Smith had a losing record at Canisius that is a distinct fact that we all can agree on. What his record will be like at RPI no one knows at this point in time. Give him the benefit of the doubt. He deserves that much. MSU just hired Danton Cole as their newest coach. His coaching record at Alabama was .309 and his teams records in the USHL were under .500 for the 7 seasons he coached the NTDP, and that is with some of the best young hockey players in the world. But MSU wanted him and are we to believe its just because he was an Alum? There last Alum hire was a disaster. No they hired him because of his experience as a head coach and not as a recruiter because he has very little experience in that world.

From players I know on the team, they are already impressed with what they have seen from Coach Smith in just a few short days that he has been with them. He's already been around more off season workouts then the previous HC.

Re: RPI 2017 Off-Season (Part II): Mr. Smith Goes to Troy

Originally Posted by Noresmen

Unless you were inside the search process you have no idea if a USHL coach applied for this position. Even if they had, would they have measured up to Ben Barr for you? That is clearly who you are stuck on here. Let's be honest about that, he was your choice. You also have no idea that there were ... as you put it "ZERO HOCKEY PEOPLE IN THIS DECISION". Again, without being on the inside you do not know who Lee's inner circle of advisors were on this choice. You're assuming there were no Alumni involved. You don't know that for a fact. All you know are the vocal ones that were quoted in the paper that didn't participate.

Dave Smith had a losing record at Canisius that is a distinct fact that we all can agree on. What his record will be like at RPI no one knows at this point in time. Give him the benefit of the doubt. He deserves that much. MSU just hired Danton Cole as their newest coach. His coaching record at Alabama was .309 and his teams records in the USHL were under .500 for the 7 seasons he coached the NTDP, and that is with some of the best young hockey players in the world. But MSU wanted him and are we to believe its just because he was an Alum? There last Alum hire was a disaster. No they hired him because of his experience as a head coach and not as a recruiter because he has very little experience in that world.

From players I know on the team, they are already impressed with what they have seen from Coach Smith in just a few short days that he has been with them. He's already been around more off season workouts then the previous HC.

Coach Smith has to be careful about being around the workouts, because there are some NCAA regulations surrounding interactions in what is now officially the off-season. I'm sure he's well versed at what he is and isn't allowed to do though, especially since these are conditioning skills with no gear and ice involved. I'm happy to read, at least from an indirect account, that morale in "the locker room" is improving.

Re: RPI 2017 Off-Season (Part II): Mr. Smith Goes to Troy

I have two general rules for responding to these controversies on this thread: 1) when in doubt, try to take a positive position on the team and the program; and 2) when in doubt, agree with Ralph. Usually those two rules are aligned, as they are in this case. However, my gut says that AspyDad has reason to be concerned. Coaching at this level is a very difficult and complex job. Knowledgeable insiders in hockey usually have a very clear idea of who has the most up-to-date skills in hockey strategy, hockey skill development, fitness development, recruiting skills. And sometimes the person with all of those attributes is not well known (might even be a coach at a mediocre Atlantic conference team ). I would have liked to have seen evidence that RPI had brought in one very knowledgeable inside hockey person in making this decision. Having said that, I wish the new coach only success.

Re: RPI 2017 Off-Season (Part II): Mr. Smith Goes to Troy

Originally Posted by Noresmen

Unless you were inside the search process you have no idea if a USHL coach applied for this position. Even if they had, would they have measured up to Ben Barr for you? That is clearly who you are stuck on here. Let's be honest about that, he was your choice. You also have no idea that there were ... as you put it "ZERO HOCKEY PEOPLE IN THIS DECISION". Again, without being on the inside you do not know who Lee's inner circle of advisors were on this choice. You're assuming there were no Alumni involved. You don't know that for a fact. All you know are the vocal ones that were quoted in the paper that didn't participate.

Dave Smith had a losing record at Canisius that is a distinct fact that we all can agree on. What his record will be like at RPI no one knows at this point in time. Give him the benefit of the doubt. He deserves that much. MSU just hired Danton Cole as their newest coach. His coaching record at Alabama was .309 and his teams records in the USHL were under .500 for the 7 seasons he coached the NTDP, and that is with some of the best young hockey players in the world. But MSU wanted him and are we to believe its just because he was an Alum? There last Alum hire was a disaster. No they hired him because of his experience as a head coach and not as a recruiter because he has very little experience in that world.

From players I know on the team, they are already impressed with what they have seen from Coach Smith in just a few short days that he has been with them. He's already been around more off season workouts then the previous HC.

Ben Barr was not my choice. You have no knowledge either but hockey men who have more knowledge than the both of us said there was a lack of involvement by hockey people. Why do you think you know more than Garry Kearns, Mike Sadgepohr and Joe Juneau??? It took a lot for those men who love the program to raise the red flag. But you know more. Garry Kearns saved the program and you know more than him, Sadgepohr captained the 85 team and you know more than him and Joe Juneau, well is Joe Juneau and you know more than him. I think youre wrong but I don't wish you ill and respect your right to express it. There's no doubt that Lammers and Muse should have been part of final four. Happy Passover/Easter to all.

"Rick not want to be know as tough guy, Rick want to be known as team guy" Rick "Mongo" Bennett

Re: RPI 2017 Off-Season (Part II): Mr. Smith Goes to Troy

Originally Posted by Ralph Baer

I really don't understand how one can correlate having a banner to being able to pick a good coach. That was my point, and it makes sense to me. I do agree that knowledgeable hockey people should have been involved in the search. I also don't trust Shirley in the least and I am not sure about Lee.

But that's what happened, Shirley and Lee picked the Coach with no hockey people. Happy Passover.

"Rick not want to be know as tough guy, Rick want to be known as team guy" Rick "Mongo" Bennett

Re: RPI 2017 Off-Season (Part II): Mr. Smith Goes to Troy

Originally Posted by AspyDad

Ben Barr was not my choice. You have no knowledge either but hockey men who have more knowledge than the both of us said there was a lack of involvement by hockey people. Why do you think you know more than Garry Kearns, Mike Sadgepohr and Joe Juneau??? It took a lot for those men who love the program to raise the red flag. But you know more. Garry Kearns saved the program and you know more than him, Sadgepohr captained the 85 team and you know more than him and Joe Juneau, well is Joe Juneau and you know more than him. I think youre wrong but I don't wish you ill and respect your right to express it. There's no doubt that Lammers and Muse should have been part of final four. Happy Passover/Easter to all.

Agree Lammers and Muse would have been good choices for final 4 interviews if, and its a big if, they applied for the position. And yes I have a right as you do to express an opinion. As for knowing more, I wouldn't say I know more, I would say I know as much based on my experience in the sport of hockey.

Originally Posted by AspyDad

But that's what happened, Shirley and Lee picked the Coach with no hockey people. Happy Passover.

Again, this statement is a matter of opinion unless you have a source inside the inner circle that's telling you differently.