We have been reviewing our site policy regarding our infractions, warnings, and banning policy and have reached a point of changing it. Going forward, we have the following Infractions selectable by staff in dealing with problem members:

Depending upon the number of active infraction points (all points expire in 12 months), the system will automatically suspend an offending member's account for X days upon earning Y warning points. This 'Temp Ban' length of time is outlined here:

Still under manual control will be:
Sr. Staff can add additional time to the suspension if the member continues violations during the Temp Ban.
Sr. Staff can ban accounts permanently in obvious situations (ie, SPAM).
Admin can reverse a warning, infraction, or ban if there was an error in issuing it.

This will put the ultimate power to 'Temp Ban' someone in the hands of the mods who issue infractions and warnings, but each one they issue is recorded and subject to review by sr. staff to ensure there is not an abuse of the system by anyone on staff (for example, a mod on drug binge hammering out warnings to a member just to ban them for fun). Such actions will be reviewed by sr. staff and appropriate action taken (up to and including reversal of infraction points and removal from staff).

We are still working out a way of making it known whom is on Temp Ban (at least, those of an extended period) so that members understand why someone has had their site access revoked and for how long. This is still somewhat under discussion, and we'll update this thread shortly. Up to now there has been a 'Ban on Sight' list of people who fucked up bad enough to NOT ever be allowed back, but we are reforming those bans to be more in alignment with our system outlined above. As of this week, the following persons are on extended ban status:

You'll note some of those have multiple usernames listed, part of our system will be that if another account is registered during that Temp Ban period, the ban on the original account is extended and that recent alias is banned. It is on the offender to abide by the ban or have it extended. Members are asked to help us identify those persons when you see them back on site during a temporary ban of their account (you can PM a staff member or use the REPORT function on their posts).

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The changes above have not gone into place as yet, though we'll be editing the site settings this week. Also, I will outline below some of the history of what got us to this point.

+++++++++++++++

It's been noted that when someone is under a suspension, registering additional accounts will lead to more infractions which creates longer bans....it creates the quandry of how to communicate questions or concerns to the site whilst in that suspended state. For those wondering, here are some sample questions, and their related answers:

I have had numerous names over the years and I was wondering if you are going to reinstate one or am I going to make up a new one?
Our policy is that if you've screwed up enough to be on this kind of list, those account names aren't coming back. You, the 'person' are able to return, but your old 'screenname' is dead. Please register a new account when you are eligible.

2. I've read that I come back Sept. 2010. Does that mean I come back on the 1st of Sept. or on a specific day?
It wasn't specified, but technically September 1st is in September, so that would be the first date of eligibility for return.

3. So when Im back, does my warning level go back down to zero and how many more warnings until banishment again?
We've debated this, and it isn't quite set in stone as yet. Some of us prefer that the old points be carried over, so future generations of staff are aware of the problems caused....please note, however, that given the time frames, most of those points would have expired and will not be counting towards any future bans, and nobody but staff can see the point count. Others prefer to let the new account come in with zero points, though we keep note of who this new person used to be and how many points they'd earned under that old account. Regardless of how we keep notes on people, the net effect to any banned person is the same - you are coming in clean again.

4. If I think of any more questions, is there an email address I can send them to? I dont think it is a good idea to post in this forum any more than this one time.
You are correct, posting here or registering simply to ask these questions probably won't be smiled upon too much. However, there is a 'Contact Us' link at the bottom right corner of every page which will submit your questions to the admin group. If it is something specific to your case, we may respond via email (use one you can receive a response with). If the questions are beneficial for all to learn, such as the ones raised here, we'll post the response publicly for you and anyone else to learn. If it is simply more trolling, we won't respond at all - we reserve that right.

I would also like to point out our current practice, since some have suggested a more graduated system of discipline before someone lands on the BoS list. Please note, I am using permaban='this account is dead, try a new one' and BoS='no more accounts for you'.

* Troll earns some edits, maybe public replies, maybe some PMs.

* Troll continues, and earns more edits, PMs, and perhaps Warnings or Infractions.

* Troll continues, and earns more Warnings or Infractions, and finally a Temp Ban. First Temp Ban is typically 3 days, with a warning that registering any alias accounts will result in both accounts being permabanned.

* Troll returns and continues, earns more warnings, and eventually a second Temp Ban (typically 7 days, with the same alias=permaban warning).

* Troll returns and continues, and earns a permaban.

* Troll registers a second account. Please note, there is no current time frame set before the person can register again. They can choose at this point to be a 'new person' or resume old habits.

* Troll resumes old habits, earns edits, Warnings, and another temp ban. Now typically, because they KNOW better, they earn the warnings and temp ban more quickly (less leniency) but there is no rigid code of what this takes or how quick they earn it.

* Troll gets back from temp ban, earns another one or goes straight to permaban again.

* Troll registers a new account...rinse, repeat. Now, there is also no set guideline on how many times we allow them to come back and earn another permaban before reaching BoS status. However, putting someone on BoS generally requires all the admin to agree that it has come to this.

Keep in mind, most of you know how hard it is for someone to earn a ban, even a temporary one. But you can see above, there are multiple opportunities to fly right given the original account, that multiple account attempts are given, and anywhere along the way the person can learn to play nice before we have to go further. You can also see, given the number of chances someone gets as well as the time frames for the temp bans, it is pretty damn hard to earn a BoS based on a drug fueled rampage over a night, a few days, or even a few weeks. BoS requires a sustained abuse of the site and-or staff.

There is some record keeping in the staff forums, but it has proven spotty and not well collected for newer mods who join staff in that they don't know the history of why someone has earned so many bans - it ends up relying heavily on the memory of those who suffered the trolling, and that's not a good way to operate. We will be implementing some better tools inside the staff area to help keep better records on persons who cause the site significant problems. However, it also leads to a desire to keep the public informed as well - since transparency leads to both an open answer to the many questions remaining members have when someone gets banned as well as creating a window to the behaviour members need to avoid to keep themselves in good standing with the site. The problem then becomes balancing that troll's privacy with public information, in that should they choose to behave well after a temp ban, they still have an effective scarlet letter pinned to them, something we're not keen on perpetuating either :\ This is why we'll be looking into what, and how, to share information with the public related to these heavier bans.

animal_cookie

10-03-2010, 22:18

good ideas :)

Pharcyde

10-03-2010, 22:25

what exactly did splatt do to earn a 5 year ban?

TheLoveBandit

11-03-2010, 01:13

Over the course of a few years, he trolled the shit out of AusDD staff, compromised a few accounts including one that got him access back into the staff forum after he'd been removed from staff so he could collect personal information and threaten the site and staff with (forged) incriminating information, and generally being a total dick. :)

Pharcyde

11-03-2010, 01:14

whoa

tambourine-man

11-03-2010, 10:53

Over the course of a few years, he trolled the shit out of AusDD staff, compromised a few accounts including one that got him access back into the staff forum after he'd been removed from staff so he could collect personal information and threaten the site and staff with (forged) incriminating information, and generally being a total dick. :)
LOL... I changed my MSN because of that douchebag.

I think you're being overly generous to Splatt in letting him ever come back, but other than that, I like - the greater clarity is a good idea :).

felix

11-03-2010, 22:15

Over the course of a few years, he trolled the shit out of AusDD staff, compromised a few accounts including one that got him access back into the staff forum after he'd been removed from staff so he could collect personal information and threaten the site and staff with (forged) incriminating information, and generally being a total dick. :)
including handing over private staff contact details to the Police and/or media.

Infinite Jest

11-03-2010, 23:35

including handing over private staff contact details to the Police and/or media.

Did he actually do that, or just claim he did it?

Incidentally, when Google Buzz installed I got Splatt in my recommended contacts. One good reason to uninstall that piece of shit :D

felix

11-03-2010, 23:50

Did he actually do that, or just claim he did it?
threatened to, possibly did, possibly got fucked off due to lack of interest. i don't remember.

anyway, sorry to propagate this talk of individuals, i don't think it's really very appropriate. :o

let's get back to the policy discussion. :)

Infinite Jest

11-03-2010, 23:56

Aye, kill the last few posts if ye want, getting too off-topic.

(Even if the on-topic posts are just everyone saying: "great idea TLB" :))

swilow

12-03-2010, 01:25

I am kinda glad I'm not a mod; the last change made my head spiiiin. I'd ending up banning myself, and somehow converting TLB-bot into a human.

Mariposa

12-03-2010, 03:08

@IJ: Do you remember the shit-list he published? I laughed as my DOC is legal and (relatively) socially acceptable, but I'm sure a lot of people found it less amusing. At present, though, we're giving him the attention he craves. DNFTT and whatnot. ;)

I have another question, if I may ask.

TLB/any other admin in the know: what sort of conduct on the part of a member could/would result in a ban such as Splatt received? Repeated disruption and registration of alts seems to have a bit less impact than it did when I was on staff. Where, if anywhere, is the line formally drawn? It appears that while such matters are approached on a case-by-case basis, in order for this approach to be ultimately feasible, uniformity is needed.

Roger&Me

12-03-2010, 22:45

Its nice to know that BL is finally implementing some type of uniform disciplinary system.

Chaos Butterfly

15-03-2010, 02:23

Just to bring up a point of clarification regarding members on these extended temp bans.

If they fuck up upon return, even registering one infraction point, their temp ban is then doubled. So, if these people who have been infinitely troublesome to the site come back and *still* can't play nice, if they fuck up, they're gone for longer. Also, if we find that they have registered an alt account during their temp ban time, the temp ban doubles, and the alt-account is permanently banned. So, these extremely troublesome users are on the shortest of short leashes, and with most of them, I'm pretty sure that they will fuck up real quick and be back off the site again, for longer.

Delsyd

15-03-2010, 03:01

As i expressed in the mod thread:

if they act up after the 6 month ban, they should get a 1 year ban. after the one year they sshould recieve the 5 year/perma

alasdairm

15-03-2010, 03:27

what is the value to the community of letting users, who have shown repeatedly that they can not or will not abide by the rules, back to the site ever?

some of them have come back without our knowing and have behaved just fine and been productive members. Only later for us to findout it was actually them.

People can and do change, and i dont see why they dont deserve another chance. especially if they are willing to wait such a time to come back to a community that means something to them.

alasdairm

15-03-2010, 04:23

but where do you draw the line? you seem to be suggesting there should never be a line?

some of those people had 4, 5, 6, 7 chances and showed time and time again, even after the most (in retrospect laughably) 'sincere' apologies, that they could not or would not change their ways. at what point do you finally realise they have no desire whatsoever to contribute to the community?

alasdair

fizzle

15-03-2010, 04:46

In the end it makes it a little easier, because this way we dont always have to be on the lookout for their new accounts to ban on sight, this way if they really want back on the site they wont register new accounts, and if they do register when they arent supposed to they will be automatically banned, which is what would happen anyway, so it cuts back on the work a little for us, plus now with the names being viewable by the public, theres a lot more people on the look out for them.

TheLoveBandit

15-03-2010, 15:05

TLB/any other admin in the know: what sort of conduct on the part of a member could/would result in a ban such as Splatt received? Repeated disruption and registration of alts seems to have a bit less impact than it did when I was on staff. Where, if anywhere, is the line formally drawn? It appears that while such matters are approached on a case-by-case basis, in order for this approach to be ultimately feasible, uniformity is needed.

No formal line drawn as yet, and even the 3 pt "Major Violation" lacks definition...so the refinement of this policy continues within the staff forum. There are other points, beyond those raised thus far, which are holes in the proposed change and we need to address them. It may fall to the 'staff consensus' that was used in issuing "Ban on Sight" status, meaning someone has to fuck up a lot and piss off a LOT of people, in order to earn such big bans. If anyone has other questions, or sees other problems, please raise them here so we can create a healthier and more robust and well-defined system so everyone knows where they stand as a member receiving warnings or infractions; and the rest of us have less questions in hand when someone near us gets sent of a holiday. Thank you.

jamesmartin

15-03-2010, 15:17

Can't people just make a new account if they have been banned ?

fizzle

15-03-2010, 20:16

They can, but if its caught and found out who it belongs to the new account is banned and the original temp ban is doubled.

Captain.Heroin

15-03-2010, 23:58

I have another question, if I may ask.

TLB/any other admin in the know: what sort of conduct on the part of a member could/would result in a ban such as Splatt received? Repeated disruption and registration of alts seems to have a bit less impact than it did when I was on staff. Where, if anywhere, is the line formally drawn? It appears that while such matters are approached on a case-by-case basis, in order for this approach to be ultimately feasible, uniformity is needed.

Is posting disgusting pornography grounds for a temp/perm ban? If not let's make an amendment to reflect this.

"People can change"

Yeah right, just like the US government can change - for the worse. :|

Z Y G G Y

16-03-2010, 01:18

^I'm surprised you would totally dismiss that. So, totally anti psychotherapy?. People have a whole range of behaviors which they can choose to use or not. Behavior modification works for many people. People can have hidden negative behaviors that they have not shown yet and people who have shown negative behaviors don't have to repeat those behaviors. Sure there are people who won't stop some negative behaviors for as long as they live but that's not everyone. I'm glad BL administration has more faith in people than u C.H ;)

jamesmartin

16-03-2010, 02:38

They can, but if its caught and found out who it belongs to the new account is banned and the original temp ban is doubled.

But how exactly can they find out z?
(without invading privacy)

fizzle

16-03-2010, 02:50

Theres ways of knowing, often times through other members or the person even outing themself, but again if they manage to fly under the radar without causing trouble, props to them.

Captain.Heroin

16-03-2010, 03:16

^I'm surprised you would totally dismiss that. So, totally anti psychotherapy?. People have a whole range of behaviors which they can choose to use or not. Behavior modification works for many people. People can have hidden negative behaviors that they have not shown yet and people who have shown negative behaviors don't have to repeat those behaviors. Sure there are people who won't stop some negative behaviors for as long as they live but that's not everyone. I'm glad BL administration has more faith in people than u C.H ;)

Obviously, Zyggy, people do change.

A lot of people will never change though. I have witnessed people living their entire lives until they're old and at death's door without changing.

Some people do change, Zyggy. Others don't. I don't really appreciate how childish your response was.

jamesmartin

16-03-2010, 04:15

^ WTF

And to fizzle - k thanks

tambourine-man

16-03-2010, 10:38

Is posting disgusting pornography grounds for a temp/perm ban? If not let's make an amendment to reflect this.

"People can change"

Yeah right, just like the US government can change - for the worse. :|
I'd like to buy a vowel, please.

animal_cookie

17-03-2010, 02:41

[FONT="Georgia"][SIZE="2"][COLOR="SeaGreen"]Is posting disgusting pornography grounds for a temp/perm ban? If not let's make an amendment to reflect this.

what one person defines as nasty porno, another is going to see as fine and dandy...

how would you quantitatively decide what is disgusting?

tathra

17-03-2010, 04:28

Here's what you should be asking: does it violate the blua or forum guidelines? If not, then ua-ing the post should be the extent of moderation. If its being spammed over and over again in an obvious attempt at causing problems, then a warning should be issued, and handled like any other spammer. i can't see any reason for an amendment, as this case should be handled like any other, and will often just be a judgement call by the acting mod.

TheLoveBandit

08-06-2010, 20:34

BUMP - updated initial post with information related to the number of days a member will be suspended dependent upon the number of active points they have earned. Staff can issue a warning in place of an infraction, which will leave a mark on their profile, but not incur any points towards suspension. This is at the moderator's discretion.

JayR

09-06-2010, 02:24

I haven't been here for very long, but I do feel that the rules regarding banned status are very sensible. I have been a long time member to forums aligned to less controversial topics (legally) and the rules there were much more harsh. In other words, there would be an automated system to handle warnings, then once at the maximum level the account was permanently banned.

I do appreciate how openly oriented this community is, but would anyone care to explain the reasoning behind it... or maybe I will figure it all out as I advance here :)

tathra

09-06-2010, 02:41

^ this pretty much sums up what brought about the changes:

some of them have come back without our knowing and have behaved just fine and been productive members. Only later for us to findout it was actually them.

People can and do change, and i dont see why they dont deserve another chance. especially if they are willing to wait such a time to come back to a community that means something to them.

JayR

09-06-2010, 23:13

^ this pretty much sums up what brought about the changes:Indeed, it does :) Thank you tathra.

-Guido-

13-06-2010, 15:49

at what point do you finally realize they have no desire whatsoever to contribute to the community?

alasdair

That is subjective bro. Who is anyone to judge that they do not or will not contribute?

alasdairm

13-06-2010, 21:34

^ of course it is subjective. there are calls in this thread for people to get a second chance. well, some people were given a second chance and they came back and were as disruptive, if not moreso. so they were given a third chance and they came back and were as disruptive, if not moreso. so they were given a fouth chance and they came back and were as disruptive, if not moreso. so they were given a sixth chance and they came back and were as disruptive, if not moreso. etc.

are you suggesting that there is no point where you just say, "ok, they're done for good"? if not, how many chances should people get? what is reasonable (irony aside)?

alasdair

-Guido-

14-06-2010, 05:07

^ of course it is subjective. there are calls in this thread for people to get a second chance. well, some people were given a second chance and they came back and were as disruptive, if not moreso. so they were given a third chance and they came back and were as disruptive, if not moreso. so they were given a fouth chance and they came back and were as disruptive, if not moreso. so they were given a sixth chance and they came back and were as disruptive, if not moreso. etc.

are you suggesting that there is no point where you just say, "ok, they're done for good"? if not, how many chances should people get? what is reasonable (irony aside)?

alasdair

If they are being general jackasses with no bad intent, just keep Temp Banning, eventually they will learn. Some of the people you have banned permanently are not bad. Some are sick, others have humor not appreciated by those in power, while others just enjoy being silly but never had the intent to do harm. Honestly I think it harsh for someone to be banned because they called someone a "double nigger" or a "kike" or used hateful terms when terms like faggot, ginny, limey, dingo fucker, (prefix)fag, tweeker, junkie, homo, gay etc... are passed back and forth between users like a joint.

However, if they are soliciting sales of drugs, hacking, spamming websites, being seriously racist, flooding the forums with hardcore scat porn, and actually threatening users with the intent to do harm then they should be fucking banned on sight.

fizzle

14-06-2010, 22:33

^Theres no longer any kind of "perma ban" so theoretically they are all just temp bans now, and since its shown how long each temp ban is, members know exactly what they are getting themselves into ahead of time. Also, the people that (I think) you are talking about, if you'll notice, have been allowed back in just a few months, thats a HUGE step from where they were before, when they were "ban on sight".

-Guido-

16-06-2010, 18:49

^Theres no longer any kind of "perma ban" so theoretically they are all just temp bans now, and since its shown how long each temp ban is, members know exactly what they are getting themselves into ahead of time. Also, the people that (I think) you are talking about, if you'll notice, have been allowed back in just a few months, thats a HUGE step from where they were before, when they were "ban on sight".

No Perma-Ban? I find that to be good yet bad. For example Splatt is Temp-Banned for 5 years because:

"Over the course of a few years, he trolled the shit out of AusDD staff, compromised a few accounts including one that got him access back into the staff forum after he'd been removed from staff so he could collect personal information and threaten the site and staff with (forged) incriminating information, and generally being a total dick."

Shit like that along with sourcing should be a Permanent Ban. However, the Temporary-Ban for acting silly, trolling, jack assery is welcoming. I'm glad to see the group of Staff we have now are thinking things through and punishments and actions are not based on biased opinions of people but certain things do indeed need a Permanent-Ban.

I still can't help but be angered by this in a way. ClubbinGuido (Me) a long time member and Moderator was Permanently Banned over jackassery that happened to occur in a forum dedicated to jackassery. I never trolled Staff forums or Focus Forums. But some other Bluelighter gets a 5 year Tempoary-Ban for threatening Staff, collecting information, and trolling the living shit out of Staff Forums. Like it or not, I will never let that go because of the circumstances it happened under.

TheLoveBandit

16-06-2010, 19:57

Your account will never come back (except in electronic zombie form). You, the person, are already back.....

Splatt the account will never come back. The person is eligible to come back at the end of the term.

Should we have banned you, the person, banned for longer?

-Guido-

17-06-2010, 02:32

Your account will never come back (except in electronic zombie form). You, the person, are already back.....

Splatt the account will never come back. The person is eligible to come back at the end of the term.

Should we have banned you, the person, banned for longer?

Oh I see. I was under the impression that Splatt the person along with the account was eligible to come back.

My answer is I should of been Temporarily Banned and allowed to come back as ClubbinGuido and I'm sure some of you agree. However, due to Staff politics and generally faggotry on the part of other Staff this was not possible. Regardless, this thread isn't about that and I actually am becoming bothered by thinking about it.

TheLoveBandit

22-06-2010, 16:13

It's been noted that when someone is under a suspension, registering additional accounts will lead to more infractions which creates longer bans....it creates the quandry of how to communicate questions or concerns to the site whilst in that suspended state. For those wondering, here are some sample questions, and their related answers:

I have had numerous names over the years and I was wondering if you are going to reinstate one or am I going to make up a new one?
Our policy is that if you've screwed up enough to be on this kind of list, those account names aren't coming back. You, the 'person' are able to return, but your old 'screenname' is dead. Please register a new account when you are eligible.

2. I've read that I come back Sept. 2010. Does that mean I come back on the 1st of Sept. or on a specific day?
It wasn't specified, but technically September 1st is in September, so that would be the first date of eligibility for return.

3. So when Im back, does my warning level go back down to zero and how many more warnings until banishment again?
We've debated this, and it isn't quite set in stone as yet. Some of us prefer that the old points be carried over, so future generations of staff are aware of the problems caused....please note, however, that given the time frames, most of those points would have expired and will not be counting towards any future bans, and nobody but staff can see the point count. Others prefer to let the new account come in with zero points, though we keep note of who this new person used to be and how many points they'd earned under that old account. Regardless of how we keep notes on people, the net effect to any banned person is the same - you are coming in clean again.

4. If I think of any more questions, is there an email address I can send them to? I dont think it is a good idea to post in this forum any more than this one time.
You are correct, posting here or registering simply to ask these questions probably won't be smiled upon too much. However, there is a 'Contact Us' link at the bottom right corner of every page which will submit your questions to the admin group. If it is something specific to your case, we may respond via email (use one you can receive a response with). If the questions are beneficial for all to learn, such as the ones raised here, we'll post the response publicly for you and anyone else to learn. If it is simply more trolling, we won't respond at all - we reserve that right.

As these are good questions, unasked and unanswered before, we've put this here for you. We'll also add this to the OP for future readers that might miss it in the thread. :)

TheLoveBandit

25-06-2010, 15:55

We wanted to come back and bold-emphasis this part:

You'll note some of those have multiple usernames listed, part of our system will be that if another account is registered during that Temp Ban period, the ban on the original account is extended and that recent alias is banned. It is on the offender to abide by the ban or have it extended. Members are asked to help us identify those persons when you see them back on site during a temporary ban of their account (you can PM a staff member or use the REPORT function on their posts).

Since some people aren't getting this message. Moreover, we do attempt to communicate this policy with any temp ban - but if it's posted here the member OUGHT to be aware of it.

Binge Artist

03-07-2010, 15:55

How is it that my first ban was 3 days...and then 1 point later, I had a two week ban?

Shouldn't it have been a 7 day ban?

Also, TLB said that all points expire in one year. But my last infraction says it "never" expires. What's the deal with that?

fizzle

03-07-2010, 19:03

The points ability to get you banned expires after one year, but the point always stays on your record, I'm pretty sure thats true across the board, despite what some of them say (though I could be wrong). As for the jump from 3 days to 2 weeks, are you sure you didnt get a 2 point infraction? That would cause that.

Binge Artist

03-07-2010, 23:36

As for the jump from 3 days to 2 weeks, are you sure you didnt get a 2 point infraction? That would cause that.

Nope, 1 point.

But, I'm willing to compromise. How's about staff makes my next banning 7 days, to make up for the lost time?

Binge Artist

07-07-2010, 23:25

How is it that my first ban was 3 days...and then 1 point later, I had a two week ban?