Sorry I didn't get my question answered before by Sgt. or maybe you can answer it GB

But when in the state of EPOC is counter productive eating for a certain period of time after the exercise because your body will be using the energy from the food you've just eaten instead of the fat stores to replace glycogen levels?

That could be answered alot of different ways. At first glance, you would say yes, that it's counterproductive, but I don't think so. IMO it is pretty idealistic to think that your body can burn ONLY stored BF for energy at anytime. We try to manipulate all sorts of variables to burn as much BF as possible but the bottom line is our bodies are always going to burn a mixture of energy sources that is for the most part out of our control.

If you burn 400 calories doing your HIIT and then another 400 in the next several hours as your body recuperates then you just burned a total of 800 calories. Is it really that important where they came from? If you're eating a proper diet we know that they didn't come from lean tissue, so if you created an 800 calorie deficit for the day that is what's most important. Even if you don't burn X amount BF calories at that specific time, if you're at the 800cal deficit then the X amount of BF calories will be burned at some point. A simple way of explaining what I'm trying to say is weight loss = calories in - calories out, so really all that's important is that you burned those 800 calories. I would say stick to your diet and don't worry about fasting or whatever post HIIT ie. if it's time to eat, then eat.

That could be answered alot of different ways. At first glance, you would say yes, that it's counterproductive, but I don't think so. IMO it is pretty idealistic to think that your body can burn ONLY stored BF for energy at anytime. We try to manipulate all sorts of variables to burn as much BF as possible but the bottom line is our bodies are always going to burn a mixture of energy sources that is for the most part out of our control.

If you burn 400 calories doing your HIIT and then another 400 in the next several hours as your body recuperates then you just burned a total of 800 calories. Is it really that important where they came from? If you're eating a proper diet we know that they didn't come from lean tissue, so if you created an 800 calorie deficit for the day that is what's most important. Even if you don't burn X amount BF calories at that specific time, if you're at the 800cal deficit then the X amount of BF calories will be burned at some point. A simple way of explaining what I'm trying to say is weight loss = calories in - calories out, so really all that's important is that you burned those 800 calories. I would say stick to your diet and don't worry about fasting or whatever post HIIT ie. if it's time to eat, then eat.

What are your thoughts on having coffee while cutting? Skim milk of course... When I make it at home I only have a small amount of skim milk but when getting it from a cafe I notice they out a lot in...

Recently I've been washing down a caffeine with coffee. Luvverlee! Best of both worlds!

lol I've done that too! My mornings have been sick at times... i'll take a caffeine pill, have my protein smoothie (contains 2 tsp of instant coffee) and a preworkout supp like Jack3d or one of those containing MORE caffeine (I know preworkout supps are a waste of money in general, but when you are up at 4:30am getting ready to workout, they DO help wake you up a bit).

Then when I get to work I have my first of several big cups of actual hot coffee... Mmmmm!!!

Yea, reading this back now, maybe I need to tone it down a bit - cortisol or not. :\

lol I've done that too! My mornings have been sick at times... i'll take a caffeine pill, have my protein smoothie (contains 2 tsp of instant coffee) and a preworkout supp like Jack3d or one of those containing MORE caffeine (I know preworkout supps are a waste of money in general, but when you are up at 4:30am getting ready to workout, they DO help wake you up a bit).

Then when I get to work I have my first of several big cups of actual hot coffee... Mmmmm!!!

Yea, reading this back now, maybe I need to tone it down a bit - cortisol or not. :\

IIRC caffeine IS responsible for the cortisol increase - whether its from coffee or not. Also iirc regular consumtion of caffeine dramatically reduces this "cortisol increase". Just about any stim (ie ephedrine)increases cortisol....for reasons such as acth,vaspressin,adh to things as simple as cortisol regulating BP and stims increase BP. In my opinion cortisol is WAY over viilified. It plays a crucial role in several essential body functions and in fact often plays a beneficial role in lipolysis. IMO its far FAR from a major issue or concern for 99% of people 99% of the time. (with a few notable exceptions ie pct)
Just a few thoughts.....

So Jimmy... you think i'm ok with let's say 4-6 servings of coffee/day?

Thats a personal call. It is a CNS stim. OK is a relative term. Do I think its hindering gains? No - not at all.
Do I recall you posting about sleeping issues in the past ? IIRC - yes. You may want to look at that and cut back. I drink 3-4 cups/day myself. All im saying is any talk of its effects on cortisol are IMO inconsequential.

Thats a personal call. It is a CNS stim. OK is a relative term. Do I think its hindering gains? No - not at all.
Do I recall you posting about sleeping issues in the past ? IIRC - yes. You may want to look at that and cut back. I drink 3-4 cups/day myself. All im saying is any talk of its effects on cortisol are IMO inconsequential.

You're absolutely right re: CNS and that potentially affecting my sleep. I do switch to decaffeinated by noon at least!

1. In a cutting diet do you see steak as an acceptable source of protein? (very very lean top sirloin of course)

and

2. if i ate a steak later at night say around 9 would you still reccomend casein before bed. Im asking this because the steak would be harder for you body to break down, therefore feeding you for a longer period of time?

1. In a cutting diet do you see steak as an acceptable source of protein? (very very lean top sirloin of course)

Definitely!! Top sirloin is my choice as well... steak is an excellent source of protein, and naturally high in creatine (beef in general). If you like beef, check out bison - even leaner than beef usually, and excellent protein source!

Originally Posted by MakinItRain

2. if i ate a steak later at night say around 9 would you still reccomend casein before bed. Im asking this because the steak would be harder for you body to break down, therefore feeding you for a longer period of time?

I wouldn't NOT recommend casein, but you certainly don't need it. Beef is very slow digesting, upwards of 12 hours or more. Alot of guys panic when they can't get in their bedtime shake for whatever reason... like they're gonna burn LBM all throughout the night... and they've just had 8oz of steak a few hours before. No worries at all.

Originally Posted by Dr Pepper

Thoughts in cheat meals per week while cutting, iv been having just one.

How many do u think is over board and if just having one should I be keeping it pretty small?

All depends on your goals and how hardcore you wanna go tbh. Baseline is about as hardcore as dieting gets, and even he'll tell you that on his last cut (which he did PHENOMENALLY well), he thinks his once a week cheat meal shortchanged him a bit.

That said, I don't think one cheat meal a week is overboard if you keep it relatively clean and don't consume 2000 calories.

Originally Posted by Dr Pepper

Also just so I understand the process fully. Carbs eaten, what is the ratio between what turns to gluecose and used for energy and what is stored as glycogen for muscles and so on?

I don't know if there is an answer to this question, lol! I don't believe there is any set 'ratio', but if i'm wrong, somebody feel free to enlighten me!

Originally Posted by Dr Pepper

Or is it a certin period of time if the glucose isn't used for energy that it stores as glycogen?

Annndddd the what part of it would store as bodyfat?

If you spike your blood sugar (glucose) and immediately engage in activity, chances are none will be stored as glycogen; it should be burned up as immediate fuel. Anything left over will be handled by insulin , and used to restore glycogen in the liver and muscles. If stores are already full, the remainder will be stored as bodyfat.

ive dropped my protein intake from around 250grms pd to around 180-200grms pd the past 2mths, and only lift x2 pw now and have missed legs for almost 3mths due to breaking a toe twice, i also had punishing muay thai classes for around 5wks straight up until 4wks ago (2nd broken toe ).

ive lost NO muscle mass and infact, im 2kgs heavier (bf hasnt changed) than i was when i finished a cycle 2mths ago, im also stronger in my lifts.

now, i have a grip on nutrition and how it works but i now think the whole protein intake thing is BS to a certain degree and has been 'broscienced' around by the supplement companies.

ive discussed this with Marcus300 and he rightly pointed out that if ive backed off the weights that my body has started getting a chance to fully repair, but this still dispells myths on protein intake for gain/maintenance

ive dropped my protein intake from around 250grms pd to around 180-200grms pd the past 2mths, and only lift x2 pw now and have missed legs for almost 3mths due to breaking a toe twice, i also had punishing muay thai classes for around 5wks straight up until 4wks ago (2nd broken toe ).

Damn, that sucks dude... sorry to hear that

Originally Posted by dec11

ive lost NO muscle mass and infact, im 2kgs heavier (bf hasnt changed) than i was when i finished a cycle 2mths ago, im also stronger in my lifts.

I'm not surprised!

now, i have a grip on nutrition and how it works but i now think the whole protein intake thing is BS to a certain degree and has been 'broscienced' around by the supplement companies.

Originally Posted by dec11

ive discussed this with Marcus300 and he rightly pointed out that if ive backed off the weights that my body has started getting a chance to fully repair, but this still dispells myths on protein intake for gain/maintenance

what are your thoughts on this?

IMO, alot of guys have their protein WAY too high. I tend to agree with you as to why they believe it needs to be that way... so many follow supplement ads and what not in the magazines, it's no wonder.

I don't know if he wants his personal information divulged by me, but let's just say a very well respected Vet and undoubtedly one of the smartest guys on this board is around 5'9 and has been upwards of 220lbs at < 10% bodyfat - and has admitted he's never had his protein intake higher than 250g. I believe that was the number, if not it was something in that ballpark.

My point here is that you look at a guy who can achieve and maintain his stats at 250g protein OR LESS.... and then look at these 150lb supposed 'hard gainers' who are at 400 + grams/day, and you have to start to wonder what the real issue is, because it's HIGHLY unlikely to be an issue with insufficient protein intake.

So many people trying to add mass look at protein only and fail to see the essential role carbs play. I've seen 'bulking' diet macro splits at 50/30/20 (P/C/F) which is just asinine to me. In most cases i'd have carbs make up the majority of a bulking diet.

The only time i'd consider increasing my protein macro is with a strict cutting diet entailing a fairly severe caloric deficit. Since calories will be relatively low, we can assume the energy macros (carbs and fat) that make them up are also low, therefore we want to ensure we spare LBM by increasing protein. This simply isn't necessary on a higher calorie diet, as carbs and fat themselves have protein sparing properties.

Generally speaking though, my protein and fat macros remain pretty consistent, and carbs are all that really changes depending on the current goal at hand.

now, i have a grip on nutrition and how it works but i now think the whole protein intake thing is BS to a certain degree and has been 'broscienced' around by the supplement companies.

IMO, alot of guys have their protein WAY too high. I tend to agree with you as to why they believe it needs to be that way... so many follow supplement ads and what not in the magazines, it's no wonder.

I don't know if he wants his personal information divulged by me, but let's just say a very well respected Vet and undoubtedly one of the smartest guys on this board is around 5'9 and has been upwards of 220lbs at < 10% bodyfat - and has admitted he's never had his protein intake higher than 250g. I believe that was the number, if not it was something in that ballpark.

My point here is that you look at a guy who can achieve and maintain his stats at 250g protein OR LESS.... and then look at these 150lb supposed 'hard gainers' who are at 400 + grams/day, and you have to start to wonder what the real issue is, because it's HIGHLY unlikely to be an issue with insufficient protein intake.

So many people trying to add mass look at protein only and fail to see the essential role carbs play. I've seen 'bulking' diet macro splits at 50/30/20 (P/C/F) which is just asinine to me. In most cases i'd have carbs make up the majority of a bulking diet.

The only time i'd consider increasing my protein macro is with a strict cutting diet entailing a fairly severe caloric deficit. Since calories will be relatively low, we can assume the energy macros (carbs and fat) that make them up are also low, therefore we want to ensure we spare LBM by increasing protein. This simply isn't necessary on a higher calorie diet, as carbs and fat themselves have protein sparing properties.

Generally speaking though, my protein and fat macros remain pretty consistent, and carbs are all that really changes depending on the current goal at hand.

good answer, i think alot of guys dont think of the fact that its muscle weight they are needing to feed NOT entire body weight

What do you think are the advantages of a carb-cycling diet vs a traditional reduced calorie diet for people that are already at a reasonable or fairly low BF%?

I think it depends on the individual and how well they do with regards to carb consumption. In general though, I do feel carb cycling is most efficient at providing the best of both worlds; i.e. maintain or even reduce bodyfat (during your low/no carb days), while still providing an anabolic environment during your higher carb days and/or refeed. I personally find it difficult to maintain a consistent reduced calorie diet for any appreciable length of time. Carb cycling also gives you that mental edge; something to look foward to. During those low/no carb days, you know it's just a matter of time until you can enjoy those oats, or sweet potato, or whatever it is you have as your carb sources. To me, it's a win win.

Originally Posted by Sgt. Hartman

And could you list an example of how carbs should be cycled ie. X amount of days no carbs, X amount of days moderate, when to refeed, etc.

Thx for the topic, good pick!

I can give you a snapshot of my own routine. Bear in mind the numbers are arbitrary as far as others are concerned. i.e. this is what works for me, that doesn't mean it will work for others. However the principles can apply to all.

What makes this all click is how these days work in conjunction with my workout schedule. Generally, my last of the 3 moderate carb days falls on a cardio only day. Hmm, at first glance that seems like a waste, right? Why do carbs on a cardio only day... aren't we supposed to fuel workouts? Well, the answer here is that I am about to go into 3 zero starchy carb days, and we want to top off glycogen stores to make it through those 3 days/workouts with some level of intensity. If my last carb day were to fall on a workout day, some glycogen would be used and stores wouldn't be full, leaving me less for my 3 days without carbs.

Over those 3 no carb days, glycogen stores are being tapped into and depleted. The goal is by the last day, stores should be nearly empty. Then it's time for my high carb/refeed day - which falls on a non-workout/non-cardio day. Same principle as before - I am replenishing those stores, getting ready for another week, then the cycle starts over again.

I hope this makes sense, please let me know if I need to clarify anything.

Originally Posted by JimmySidewalk

We talked in another thread and you said you are on 75mg of tren. Did you ever go up to 100mg ? How do you take your prop with it, equal dose, bigger, smaller ?

I'm hesitant to turn this into a thread about my own routines as I wanted to keep it 'general knowledge'. However since you asked...

No, haven't gone up to 100mg. To be honest, I started at 50mg and bumped up to 75, but didn't see much difference with regards to results. I don't know if 100mg would make the difference, but I also don't want to overdo it as it's my first experience with tren .

I am doing equal dosage of tren and prop. Both started at 50mg ED, and both were bumped to 75mg ED. ALOT of people run the test higher, but my trainer made alot of sense when I proposed this cycle to him (which initially had prop higher than tren) - tren is the workhorse of the cycle, so let it do it's job. Why run the test higher when it's really there to counter 19-nor sides (low libido, ED, etc) and natural test production shutdown? In other words, unless you're doing a test only cycle, why not let the 'main' compound shine.

What is a good BCAA? And when/why is the best time/times to take it. Not really a question just some advice im looking for...

Ive heard alot about Xtend but what else.
Also cannot get purple wrath around me anywhere.

Cheers

I like Purple Wraath, but since you can't get it - can you get Xtend? It's also very good, no need to look into anything else IMO. Modern BCAA by USP Labs is ok but I don't like the texture... very powdery/puffy... and mixes too frothy imo. Purple Wraath is gritty and I actually prefer it that way.

Before and after fasted cardio is a great time. Obviously if you need to train fasted for some reason, that's another. If you can't eat for extended periods of time but can get in BCAA's, that's not a bad thing.

Personally, I take them 2x daily, morning and night, regardless of any of the above.

I like Purple Wraath, but since you can't get it - can you get Xtend? It's also very good, no need to look into anything else IMO. Modern BCAA by USP Labs is ok but I don't like the texture... very powdery/puffy... and mixes too frothy imo. Purple Wraath is gritty and I actually prefer it that way.

Before and after fasted cardio is a great time. Obviously if you need to train fasted for some reason, that's another. If you can't eat for extended periods of time but can get in BCAA's, that's not a bad thing.

Personally, I take them 2x daily, morning and night, regardless of any of the above.

Cheers bro. Think i will go with Xtend and maybe morning, night and intra WO.

GBrice, what are these reds and greens? who should be taking them? and when (time of day)? Thx much!!!

You've probably heard of 'green drinks' and/or 'green superfood', right? There are tons of different brands out there, but I specifically use Macro Greens from a company called Macro Life Naturals. The 'reds' is simply the counterpart to the greens. You don't necessarily have to take both, but I like to.

A brief description of each, taken directly off of their website:
What’s in Macro GreensŪ?
Macro GreensŪ contains 38 ingredients that feed the body at a cellular level, nourishing the body with antioxidants, co-nutrients, enzymes, vitamins, minerals and amino acids. Made with no common allergens, certified organic barley grass and 37 additional synergistic ingredients, Macro GreensŪ includes antioxidants, adaptive herbs, natural fibers, harmonizing support herbs, natural plant enzymes to ensure complete nutrition and good health.

As for who should take them, I believe everybody can benefit, especially people who don't eat enough fruits and veggies - and let's face it, that's most of us. I for one DESPISE cooking veggies. For as much as we (in this game) need to eat, it's super cumbersome, they're hard to store, don't last long, taste like crap reheated... I can go on and on about why I don't like working with veggies on a diet where I cook in bulk.

For me, these powders were the answer. While fresh/raw veggies will ALWAYS be the best option, these are better than nothing - huge understatement. Also, they contain alot of ingredients we simply wouldn't get even if we DID eat veggies every day...

As for when - most 'regular' people I've read about in many reviews seem to be happy with once per day. I take a serving of each, 3 times daily. I actually mix the reds and greens together with a sugar free grape drink (think grape Kool-Aid minus the sugar) and really enjoy the taste! There are green superfood powders out there which are better quality, and plenty that aren't as good. These are somewhere in the middle, maybe a bit better. Taste wise, there is some HORRIBLE stuff out there (usually the worse the taste, the better the quality)... to me, this taste pretty good considering what it is... especially the reds. The greens by themselves are bit tough to handle, hence the reason I combine them.

The only drawback is they are pretty expensive... but I say if you can afford em, buy em!!!

The most alkaline pH factor available in food. Contains large amounts of natural chlorophyll and the enzyme Super Oxide Dismulase (SOD). Barley grass provides one of the widest spectrums of naturally occurring nutrients available in a single source. Superior to wheat or alfalfa. “Barley is the perfect source for alkalizing the body.”

Rich in Bioflavanoids and Proanthocyanidins. These free radical fighters help to protect and strengthen connective tissue, and improve elasticity of the skin by stabilizing collagen and elastin. Grape Seed Extract is shown to be 20 times more potent than vitamin C or Vitamin E.

Provides the highest natural source of chlorophyll. The synergistic effect of the many nutrients contained in chlorella help to balance and stabilize the body’s processes at the cellular level.

Ultra Lecithin (Non-GMO):

Essential to the function of every cell and vital to hair and skin health, Ultra Lecithin helps with the absorption of fat soluble vitamins A, D, E and K and is the best source of the brain nutrient Choline. 99%oil free and contains 97% phosphatides.

Non-dairy Probiotic Culture
Macro GreensŪ contains 18 billion healthy non-dairy acidophilus cultures per serving to help digest food and aid the absorption of vitamins and minerals. These non-centrifuged cultures are necessary for intestinal hygiene and aid immune system health. Studies show a reduction of cholesterol levels and improved immune function after supplementation with probiotic cultures.

Certified organic Flax Seed:

Flax seed is by far the richest plant source of omega-3, 6 and 9’s found anywhere. Omega-3 and 6 are essential fatty acids, not made by your body. A great source of natural energy and dietary fiber.

Enzymes are specialized protein molecules facilitating most of the body’s metabolic processes. Also they help deliver the specific nutrients for muscle and tissue repair, as well as supports vibrant immune function. A broad spectrum of plant enzymes to aid digestion and to promote delivery of nutrients to your bloodstream and cells.

Liver, Kidney, and digestive support:

Milk thistle (Silymarin) and Parsley juice powder

Healthy Herbs:

Ginger, red raspberry, parsley and horsetail have been added in addition to normal adaptogens to balance hormones and improve digestion

Other Essential Ingredients:

Yucca, watercress and carrot juice powder all help joint conditions and relax the nervous system. Enzymes are added to eliminate gaseous reactions and prevent allergic reactions. Stevia is used to enhance flavor

And then in Miracle Reds:
What’s in Miracle RedsŪ?

“SUPER FRUIT” BLEND

A blend of blueberries, boysenberries, elderberries, blackberries, red raspberries combines to form a nutritional powerhouse. Packed with antioxidants proven to help protect against chronic disease and inhibit tumor development, these important disease-fighting compounds mop-up unstable free radicals that damage cells.

POMEGRANATES, PERSIMMONS, AND CARROTS

Evidence suggests pomegranate improves cardiovascular function, brain tissue, bone mass and prostate health, and has anti-aging and immune system benefits. All are high in polyphenols, carotenes, and phytonutrient antioxidants—compounds sorely missing in our diets.

GRAPE SEED EXTRACT

50 times more potent than Vitamin E, and 20 times that of Vitamin C. Strengthens connective tissue, and improves elasticity of the skin by stabilizing collagen and elastin.

Provides Xanthones, which are some of the most powerful antioxidants found in nature. The synergistic effect has a remarkable effect on supporting the heart and cardiovascular system. These important compounds contain antibacterial, antiseptic and fungicidal properties and aid in reducing inflammation, pain and fever.

Acts as an anti-inflammatory antioxidant with valuable compounds that help ease inflammation, pain, and improve circulation.

ACAI 5 TO 1 EXTRACT

Acai is a rare fruit found deep in the Amazon Rainforest. A concentrated source of anthocyanins (red-blue phenol properties) and 30 times more effective than that of red wine. Naturally high ORAC (Oxygen, free Radical, Absorbance, Capacity) value.

Contains 18 billion non-dairy “friendly bacteria” per serving, which helps with the digestion of foods and also with the absorption of vitamins and minerals. Studies show a reduction of cholesterol levels, and an improved immune function, after supplementation.

Thx Gbrice. I will look into these as an option. I prefer to chew my food but the reheated veggies aren't the best (I too cook in bulk for the week). I am not eating any fruit so I may gravitate towards them!!

I'm taking a weight gainer shake and will start a cycle of test e 500mg a week and dbol , do you think I should drop the weight gainer. Stats for weight gainer is 16g of fat, 106g of carbs and 72g of protein with only 5g of sugar.

I'm taking a weight gainer shake and will start a cycle of test e 500mg a week and dbol, do you think I should drop the weight gainer. Stats for weight gainer is 16g of fat, 106g of carbs and 72g of protein with only 5g of sugar.

Personally I don't think you need it, because I know you know how to eat. Having said that, if you're getting enough nutrition from whole foods and the gainer fits into your allotted macros, then go for it. Does it have alot of garbage in it though? How many of the 106g carbs is sugar?

I am still doing some experimenting with insulin. Honestly not consistently enough to. Make a difference in sure. I am always interested In the experiment part of all this! Maybe next cycle I will do...