Is Eater MaxX stronger than Noiseshop? Is Chakana Noise stronger than "regular" Noise? Is MaxX really as powerful as Andy/Kate? I've seen a lot of MaxX decks (some of which won tournaments) and almost none had a fracter. How do they deal with Wraparoud? pay 1c for Knifed+6c to break with Eater?

And is Astrolight (NEH w/ToL and space ICE) stronger than "regular" NEH?

Eater MaxX seems to be very effective against unprepared Players, thats about it. Its my belief that Eater simply isn't worth the draw back of being unable to access an is a very over rated card. (Which I proved by Not getting a single corp loss at our O&C Event)

I am yet to see a dedicated Chakana Noise being played, I have seen Noise decks run Chakana and slow those FA decks down a little but purge is a thing so...

MaxX is powerful, but requires a damn good pilot to be used effectively, because of this I don't think she is as powerful as kate or gabe as anyone can run those.

Astrolight doesn't seem a very good match up vs big rigs or Non-eater Anarchs, (Although NEH is still nuts) I think its better to stick to the old classic NEH builds.

Eater MaxX seems to be very effective against unprepared Players, thats about it. Its my belief that Eater simply isn't worth the draw back of being unable to access an is a very over rated card. (Which I proved by Not getting a single corp loss at our O&C Event)

I would like to see how well you are prepared against launched recursive Account Siphons from Same Old Things, Keyholes and blowing up remotes with Singularity. Got those Scorches in hand? Wanton Destruction them.

Also, Retrieval Run -> Femme Fatale. Unless you're a glacier deck, you just won't have all the resources to fend against all the central servers and remotes she can pressure.

Eater MaxX seems to be very effective against unprepared Players, thats about it. Its my belief that Eater simply isn't worth the draw back of being unable to access an is a very over rated card. (Which I proved by Not getting a single corp loss at our O&C Event)

I would like to see how well you are prepared against launched recursive Account Siphons from Same Old Things, Keyholes and blowing up remotes with Singularity. Got those Scorches in hand? Wanton Destruction them.

Also, Retrieval Run -> Femme Fatale. Unless you're a glacier deck, you just won't have all the resources to fend against all the central servers and remotes she can pressure.

She has all those cards all the time? I guess as corp I always have 3x scorched, 3xpunitive, 3x crusium grid, 3x jackson howard. So it all works out. (I assume we both have infinite credits too)

There are answers to both sides, and quite often she is limited to SoT siphon twice the first time through the deck as she probably is using Levy AR lab.

I'm also of the opinion that NEH builds took a big hit with the release of Lady the development of control-based Criminals and the new cadre of Anarch decks so I would rather play NBN with Manhunt or a new variant than NEH.

I don't think so. It is a neat trick but it is a lot of work when we can just wipe virus counters.

Are you aware that the ideal trick is to have 3x Chakana on Djinn, a Hivemind on a Progenitor and 2x Virus Breeding Grounds in play? That way, you can activate triple Chakana for 2 credits after a Purge, which means that Corps more or less have to play around it - you can't continously purge as a way to win.(You can, however, advance your agenda to the amount it should be advanced, then purge + score next turn, which is how you should be playing)

I don't think so. It is a neat trick but it is a lot of work when we can just wipe virus counters.

Are you aware that the ideal trick is to have 3x Chakana on Djinn, a Hivemind on a Progenitor and 2x Virus Breeding Grounds in play? That way, you can activate triple Chakana for 2 credits after a Purge, which means that Corps more or less have to play around it - you can't continously purge as a way to win.(You can, however, advance your agenda to the amount it should be advanced, then purge + score next turn, which is how you should be playing)

Eater MaxX seems to be very effective against unprepared Players, thats about it. Its my belief that Eater simply isn't worth the draw back of being unable to access an is a very over rated card. (Which I proved by Not getting a single corp loss at our O&C Event)

I would like to see how well you are prepared against launched recursive Account Siphons from Same Old Things, Keyholes and blowing up remotes with Singularity. Got those Scorches in hand? Wanton Destruction them.

Also, Retrieval Run -> Femme Fatale. Unless you're a glacier deck, you just won't have all the resources to fend against all the central servers and remotes she can pressure.

She has all those cards all the time? I guess as corp I always have 3x scorched, 3xpunitive, 3x crusium grid, 3x jackson howard. So it all works out. (I assume we both have infinite credits too)...

What?

Where did you get the idea that I specifically say that she has all those cards in her hand at the same time and infinite credits?

I named one of the most threatening runs she could make against players - whether they are prepared or not. It's not about how many cards she has in hand and what she could do with all of them - it's about the explosive possibilities she has to pressure the corp heavily.

I don't think so. It is a neat trick but it is a lot of work when we can just wipe virus counters.

Are you aware that the ideal trick is to have 3x Chakana on Djinn, a Hivemind on a Progenitor and 2x Virus Breeding Grounds in play? That way, you can activate triple Chakana for 2 credits after a Purge, which means that Corps more or less have to play around it - you can't continously purge as a way to win.(You can, however, advance your agenda to the amount it should be advanced, then purge + score next turn, which is how you should be playing)

Let me just set that up real quick...

I certainly didn't say it was effective =). It's just a spin on the good ol d Noise. It certainly has some neat tricks (Incubator + Hivemind + anything, Hivemind + Parasite in general, etc.), but yes, it is primarily a durdling mill deck that has a pretty neat built-in function for slowing the Corporation down. In any case, you should be able to go back to "mill-two-a-turn", which is not the WORST durdle-plan I've heard of.Somebody did get second place at a Store Championship with a deck that could easily fall under the archetype; http://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/14677/can-o-whupass

Where did you get the idea that I specifically say that she has all those cards in her hand at the same time and infinite credits?

I named one of the most threatening runs she could make against players - whether they are prepared or not. It's not about how many cards she has in hand and what she could do with all of them - it's about the explosive possibilities she has to pressure the corp heavily.

You mentioned recursive siphon runs, keyholes, retriveal run for femme and singularity. More than just one "run", and yes if they do all of those things all at once and the corp never gets a turn, the corp will lose.

Yes she gets a card a turn, but she also needs money, to do all of those things, and the corp can do things too, such as get many of the counter strategies, such as killing her for being reckless.

Siphon is almost completely useless against the constellation ice. The corp does not need lots of credits to get them to cost 0. Siphon spam doesn't really do as much as it used to.

Keyhole is a lot more potent now with Eater though, but that means more r&d and archive defense (making retrival run less useful)

Slightly off-topic, but can we not refer to Wormhole/Nebula etc as consteallation ICE? Taurus/Virgo/etc. are constellations, these are like... astronomical penomena? I've been referring to them as Orion-class ICE until I see a better suggestion, but calling them constellations is likely to get confusing

Slightly off-topic, but can we not refer to Wormhole/Nebula etc as consteallation ICE? Taurus/Virgo/etc. are constellations, these are like... astronomical penomena? I've been referring to them as Orion-class ICE until I see a better suggestion, but calling them constellations is likely to get confusing

Where did you get the idea that I specifically say that she has all those cards in her hand at the same time and infinite credits?

I named one of the most threatening runs she could make against players - whether they are prepared or not. It's not about how many cards she has in hand and what she could do with all of them - it's about the explosive possibilities she has to pressure the corp heavily.

You mentioned recursive siphon runs, keyholes, retriveal run for femme and singularity. More than just one "run", and yes if they do all of those things all at once and the corp never gets a turn, the corp will lose.

(1)Yes she gets a card a turn, but she also needs money, to do all of those things, and the corp can do things too, such as get many of the counter strategies, such as killing her for being reckless.

(2)Siphon is almost completely useless against the constellation ice. The corp does not need lots of credits to get them to cost 0. Siphon spam doesn't really do as much as it used to.

(3)Keyhole is a lot more potent now with Eater though, but that means more r&d and archive defense (making retrival run less useful)

The cutlery cards are much more annoying than than siphon.

(1) That is a very abstract argument. This is like saying against any criminal who plays tag me or some of the notable anarchs, that they could get killed or severely punished. Besides, Anarch just got a huge econ boost with Day Job (at least regarding MaxX)

(2)Yeah, so let's say the corp has all the space ice rezzed, you think it will be able to strive with them laid on the table and just live with 2 - credits per turn? You wouldn't believe how its easy to abuse siphoning a corp who plays with space ice (notably BS and Atlas).

(3) Can't argue much here. Heavily depends on what type of corp I am playing against / how much can it allow itself to dedicate all those resources protecting archives. Typically, 1 or 2 retrieval runs is all you need in the whole game. If it's for accessing heavily guarded archives to swipe agendas, then Hades Shard is a good answer.

Slightly off-topic, but can we not refer to Wormhole/Nebula etc as consteallation ICE? Taurus/Virgo/etc. are constellations, these are like... astronomical penomena? I've been referring to them as Orion-class ICE until I see a better suggestion, but calling them constellations is likely to get confusing

(2)Yeah, so let's say the corp has all the space ice rezzed, you think it will be able to strive with them laid on the table and just live with 2 - credits per turn? You wouldn't believe how its easy to abuse siphoning a corp who plays with space ice (notably BS and Atlas).

Well if you can't into my remote to access, I can slow advance with no credits, siphon doesn't help because I can gain 1, then advance. Also trick of light is great for scoring with low credits after rezzing the space ice.

Slightly off-topic, but can we not refer to Wormhole/Nebula etc as consteallation ICE? Taurus/Virgo/etc. are constellations, these are like... astronomical penomena? I've been referring to them as Orion-class ICE until I see a better suggestion, but calling them constellations is likely to get confusing

(2)Yeah, so let's say the corp has all the space ice rezzed, you think it will be able to strive with them laid on the table and just live with 2 - credits per turn? You wouldn't believe how its easy to abuse siphoning a corp who plays with space ice (notably BS and Atlas).

Well if you can't into my remote to access, I can slow advance with no credits, siphon doesn't help because I can gain 1, then advance. Also trick of light is great for scoring with low credits after rezzing the space ice.

I consider it a win if the runner is siphoning my 2 credits.

And those agendas are slowly piling up in your hand, when you're broke. The only likely scenario I am looking at here, is if you only have trick of light + 3 cost agenda in hand and 2 credits at the beginning of a turn.

I get the feeling that we are now talking about Atlas Transnational here, in which case, siphoning 2 credits is worth it - it rarely plays with more than 5-7 credits.

Slightly off-topic, but can we not refer to Wormhole/Nebula etc as consteallation ICE? Taurus/Virgo/etc. are constellations, these are like... astronomical penomena? I've been referring to them as Orion-class ICE until I see a better suggestion, but calling them constellations is likely to get confusing

I have also never heard anyone call ToL in NEH "Astrolight" aside from Kroen in this thread. Is there a precedent for this? I have seen it as Moonshine.

Slightly off-topic, but can we not refer to Wormhole/Nebula etc as consteallation ICE? Taurus/Virgo/etc. are constellations, these are like... astronomical penomena? I've been referring to them as Orion-class ICE until I see a better suggestion, but calling them constellations is likely to get confusing