This is an interesting thread. +1 for using the grigri for trad While rockfall on the belayer has been mentioned, another serious concern is that NOT A SINGLE slot device will allow you to hold a true factor two fall (e.g. a fall on the belay during multi-pitch). Petzl no longer has the warning against using it for trad. Am I the only one to think that if your device is seriously slipping, that sketchy in and of itself? All the deep notches and teeth you see on slot devices now seem design to prevent slippage. If you have a marginal placement, put a screamer on it. Use of screamers makes the difference for aid, where grigri are in standard use. The pros way out way the cons. Cheers from Osaka, john

I caught a factor 2 on a standard ATC with just some minor rope burn at the base of my thumb. Put some tape on it and kept climbing.

Mammut smart alpine (the larger size will still handle ropes down to 8.9). Only reason not in universal use yet is climbers are set in their ways.

I tried the Smart Alpine for handling 8.5mm half ropes and disliked it. The need to have the braking hand on the handle makes dual pay-out take-in operations awkward at the very best, and it totally stinks for rappelling.

The Smart Alpine might be ok for single ropes or twins, since the belay management demands are much simpler, but it is very far from ideal for half ropes.

I'm not remotely set in my ways, I keep looking for and trying alternatives to the Reverso/ATC guide for half-rope belaying, and in my opinion the Smart isn't even close.

Both the Alpine Up and Smart Alpine are assisted locking devices and so in the same category as the Gri-gri when it comes to potentially higher anchor loads. The Alpine Up gives the user the choice of whether to use an assisted locking mode or a regular friction mode, and so is more versatile than the Smart.

The Alpine Up is a far better half-rope belaying device, but it is as heavy as a Gri-gri (so noticeably heavier than the Smart) and costs $100. (But, you'd need two Smarts to cover the rope range of a single Up.)

The Mammut smart alpine is awesome. Rappels great if you have a brain and understand how to maintain a constant pull on the device. It auto locks if you blow it rapping as well as belaying, and it can be used in guide mode to bring two people up and it costs 40 dollars. The fact that people have this religious affinity to the gri gri is, to me at least, seemingly irresponsible. The gri gri is a great device for sport pitches and in the gym. I've never used it aid climbing but can understand the benefits as well. But the fact that you can't rappel without using a biner block to get your rope back and it's weight makes me reach for my ATC or Smart Alpine more often. It's no war, it's personal preference. If you like lugging extra expensive stuff around while trad climbing (?) then bring your superfluous gri gri. If you like going light and enjoy versatility then bring your ATC. The load difference most likely doesn't make that much of a difference... I know from experience that there is a softer catch with the smart alpine than with the gri gri but it's marginal.

one thing to add is that the gri gri is the "safer" device all other things being equal ... i have had cases where the mammut alpine smart does not fully assisted lock .... it depends a lot on what biner you use and the position of that biner ... it is rare but it does happen ... you should of course always have the break hand on ...

the gri gri aint a "hands free" device, but it generally works well enough for some big names to solo on it ... against petzls recommendation of course ;)

Rgold thinks mammut smart stinks for rapping. I disagree, especially when dealing w howling winds, stuck ropes on multi pitch, having automatic back up for two strand rap is just awesome. Why would you want a device where if your hand comes off it's game over? I know people say you can tie auto blocks but the reality is most people don't. So this device acts like a gri gri plus protects you on rappels.