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I feel a little weird about not visiting my parents' graves. I have memories of my mom and grandma taking us to the cemetery to cut the grass and plant flowers. I only go if I'm with one of my (believing) brothers and they want to go.

This past year my SIL's mother died. The funeral was at a cemetery in town where my mom's mom is buried. We did go look for her marker and found it and I realized that the headstone and what is chosen to go on it is more telling and interesting about the times and person.

When we had to pick out the stone for Natalie EVERYTHING said "our Angel" Our "my precious angel" Uh no. I honestly cannot even recall what we have on hers other than flowers and date. I have very selective memories of those weeks.

the headstone and what is chosen to go on it is more telling and interesting about the times and person.
.

That is so true! I vividly remember a headstone right up from my Grandpa's grave...it has a picture in it. It has a picture of this young teenager and a wave and it said "You found your endless summer". Funny how I remember it to this day and that was probably 35 years ago.

__________________"For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack" ~Rudyard Kiplingmy gallery

That is so true! I vividly remember a headstone right up from my Grandpa's grave...it has a picture in it. It has a picture of this young teenager and a wave and it said "You found your endless summer". Funny how I remember it to this day and that was probably 35 years ago.

That is so true! I vividly remember a headstone right up from my Grandpa's grave...it has a picture in it. It has a picture of this young teenager and a wave and it said "You found your endless summer". Funny how I remember it to this day and that was probably 35 years ago.

I feel a little weird about not visiting my parents' graves. I have memories of my mom and grandma taking us to the cemetery to cut the grass and plant flowers. I only go if I'm with one of my (believing) brothers and they want to go.

I really need to come to this thread more often. I only have one or two friends I can speak with about my lack of belief. All the rest would have utter disdain for me if I told them how I really felt. I just listen when they discuss religion and don't say a word.

I'm happy that I am not the only person who doesn't visit graves. My dad passed away 4 years ago and is in a masoleum. Haven't gone yet. Don't intend to. I told my mom I was very happy she got the masoleum as I would not be visitng and/or tending graves, so she neded to be ok lying under an unkempt bed of weeds. I love mom and dad, but I am in another state, and am not one to visit gravesites. I wish to be creamated and my ashes scattered in some significant place. Besides, I don't want to be taking up valuable land.

DH on the other hand wants a casket, burial, etc.

We may need to have a discussion about this!

__________________There is nothing so simple that I can't complicate it.

I really need to come to this thread more often. I only have one or two friends I can speak with about my lack of belief. All the rest would have utter disdain for me if I told them how I really felt. I just listen when they discuss religion and don't say a word.

I'm happy that I am not the only person who doesn't visit graves. My dad passed away 4 years ago and is in a masoleum. Haven't gone yet. Don't intend to. I told my mom I was very happy she got the masoleum as I would not be visitng and/or tending graves, so she neded to be ok lying under an unkempt bed of weeds. I love mom and dad, but I am in another state, and am not one to visit gravesites. I wish to be creamated and my ashes scattered in some significant place. Besides, I don't want to be taking up valuable land.

DH on the other hand wants a casket, burial, etc.

We may need to have a discussion about this!

Ahhhh it's so sad to me that people have to feel this way, afraid to be who they are. In this "free" country. What a sad commentary.

I really need to come to this thread more often. I only have one or two friends I can speak with about my lack of belief. All the rest would have utter disdain for me if I told them how I really felt. I just listen when they discuss religion and don't say a word.

This is so sad, that you can't be accepted for yourself by the people around you. Do come by here often.
Stephanie

__________________To live a creative life, we must lose our fear of being wrong. Joseph Chilton Pearcemy gallery

. I wish to be creamated and my ashes scattered in some significant place. Besides, I don't want to be taking up valuable land.

DH on the other hand wants a casket, burial, etc.

We may need to have a discussion about this!

I'm with you - I've got a directive filed to donate all usable parts - if there's any left - ashes.

However, DH wants to be buried at Saratoga National Cemetery. He earned that right, so we've compromised. I get toasted, and the ashes go in the box with him, if I predecease him, or on top of it, if I don't. The front of the stone will have a cross, for him, because he's conventional even though he really doesn't believe. On the back will be the Humanist symbol, for me. Then, any guests get taken to the City Squire for wings and beer. All planned and paid for - I figgered it was the last party I'd get to plan.

When my mom passes (dad is convinced he'll go first) he wants her ashes in the same urn and I'm supposed to give it a little shake so they can be together for eternity. My mom is so cute, because she pulled me aside and said "Rachel, nobody's going to know what you do with the ashes once we're both gone. You don't need to keep us on a shelf. Mix me with cement and turn me into a nice garden sculpture or bench." I love my folks!

Oh, that's just great. I love it and may have to borrow it.

__________________~ Children nowadays are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food and tyrannize their teachers ~(attributed to Socrates 470-399 BC)

I was a Christian for most of my life, until right-wing religion started turning me off on the whole subject. What thses people say and do is totally the opposite of the Jesus I believed in. So many of these churches teach that people are wicked. If that is so, then you can't love and respect them, can you. They also jump all over you for having doubts and questions. I've heard and seen this happen. That, to me, sounds like fear,"What if I'm wrong about all this?". I may be wrong, but that's how I see it. And it's very good to have a place to express these things.

Ahhhh it's so sad to me that people have to feel this way, afraid to be who they are. In this "free" country. What a sad commentary.

Well come on in here any time. I enjoy seeing you here.

I suspect I may have used some hyperbole. I'm sure they would still love me but would have disdain for my views and mybe think a bit less of me. Well...a few of them anyway...th rest would be perfectly cool with it and one or two are I agreement with me.

I do have one friend in particular who absolutely believes her god has a plan and that we will all be reunited in heaven. DH told her one day and she replied that she felt so sorry for him that he believed that way. My response was tha they shouldn't feel bad for him. After all...if he's wrong then it's a pleasant surprise, but if they are wrong they may find themselves horribly disappointed. In any case, this particuar friend lost her dear daughter in an accident 2 years ago and if this is what gets her through each day, then I'm all for it. It wouldn't provide any comfort for me. I firml beieve our time on Earth is it. Make the best of it and enjoy each moment with those you love, beacuse once you're gone...it's over.

__________________There is nothing so simple that I can't complicate it.

Has anyone seen this guy? He's articulate, intelligent, and even good looking. He has a series of YouTube videos on non-belief. Check him out when you have a minute.

Not familiar with him. It seems to me he could have used a lot less words. He basically expands on Dawkins argument in The God Delusion. If god/de is god/de then s/he knows what I believe and wouldn't be happy that I tried to fool her. If she doesn't know, she isn't god/de.

I'm with you - I've got a directive filed to donate all usable parts - if there's any left - ashes.

However, DH wants to be buried at Saratoga National Cemetery. He earned that right, so we've compromised. I get toasted, and the ashes go in the box with him, if I predecease him, or on top of it, if I don't. The front of the stone will have a cross, for him, because he's conventional even though he really doesn't believe. On the back will be the Humanist symbol, for me. Then, any guests get taken to the City Squire for wings and beer. All planned and paid for - I figgered it was the last party I'd get to plan.

Cool!

We haven't talked about it, I haven't really thought about it much. DH is 51 but only buried his parents in the last two years, and my dad's been gone almost 5 but mom is still around. (Turned 84 yesterday!)

Still one never knows. I don't anticipate being buried in a Catholic cemetery like my folks are/will be, so cremation works.

I suspect I may have used some hyperbole. I'm sure they would still love me but would have disdain for my views and mybe think a bit less of me. Well...a few of them anyway...th rest would be perfectly cool with it and one or two are I agreement with me.

I do have one friend in particular who absolutely believes her god has a plan and that we will all be reunited in heaven. DH told her one day and she replied that she felt so sorry for him that he believed that way. My response was tha they shouldn't feel bad for him. After all...if he's wrong then it's a pleasant surprise, but if they are wrong they may find themselves horribly disappointed. In any case, this particuar friend lost her dear daughter in an accident 2 years ago and if this is what gets her through each day, then I'm all for it. It wouldn't provide any comfort for me. I firml beieve our time on Earth is it. Make the best of it and enjoy each moment with those you love, beacuse once you're gone...it's over.

I know what you meant, I think. Not that you'll be tarred and feathered but you know it would affect relationships you have. And that is sad.

I remember asking a friend that I'd known for a year if she went to any church (not "what church do you go to"). She said no, she's atheist. I wondered later if she wondered if that would be the end of our friendship because for some people, it would be.

Do you all think that those of us who reveal our lack of faith in Christianity, or that we are atheists, will be in danger if the "American Taliban" ever gets the kind of power
they seem to want?

No, not all of us. Only women of child-bearing age (who don't want children) will be in danger since they won't have any more access to contraception, sterilization, or abortion. Men, young infertile women, and women in or past the age of menopause will be safe. Oh, I forgot the gays. Gays and lesbians, etc. will also not be safe, since there will no longer be any anti-discrimination laws, hate-crime laws, or anti-bullying laws. Um, by "American Taliban" I'm assuming you mean far right fundamentalist Christians, and not extremist Muslims...

Yeah so I know it isn't very atheistic of me but every year I walk in the Avon Walk for Breast Cancer. It's 25 days away. I figure since none of you tithe maybe you could drop a few bucks in my donation bucket? You can follow the link in my signature. It will take you to my personal page, I have a little write up there about why I walk and how long I've done it. I'm happy (and proud) to say that in four years I've raised almost $13,400!

I so agree with what you said, Muddy Otter. I was a Christian for most of my life, until right-wing religion started turning me off on the whole subject. What thses people say and do is totally the opposite of the Jesus I believed in. So many of these churches teach that people are wicked. If that is so, then you can't love and respect them, can you. They also jump all over you for having doubts and questions. I've heard and seen this happen. That, to me, sounds like fear,"What if I'm wrong about all this?". I may be wrong, but that's how I see it. And it's very good to have a place to express these things.

Thank you Suber.

That's the part of religion that's left me very spiritually skittish about church. It's funny because for me going to church has very much been... I don't know, like that moment on Mother's Day or Father's Day that you make that formal, very joyful acknowledgement that you love them. If you're not living it, you're just going through the motions, but if you feel that love and want to live up to all it calls from you, it's a joy to go and be part of that celebration.

I guess I just feel as though the turn to the right replaced the kindness of those weekly celebration and an openness to grace and joy got pushed out of the center of the house and this endless list of rules posted: if you do this or that, or even think this and that, you're not welcome here. I guess I feel as though I've shown up but the whole house has been taken over by very bad-tempered space aliens.

It would mean a lot to find a church that felt like home again.

In any case, I look at people who don't believe and respect the degree of certainty so many people seem to find that. I guess I don't have doubts, I have beliefs, but no place to take them out to dinner, if that makes any sense.

__________________JaneGod sent angels down to earth in the form of dogs with notes saying 'don't judge, just love.' They ate the notes but keep trying to deliver the message.

No, not all of us. Only women of child-bearing age (who don't want children) will be in danger since they won't have any more access to contraception, sterilization, or abortion. Men, young infertile women, and women in or past the age of menopause will be safe. Oh, I forgot the gays. Gays and lesbians, etc. will also not be safe, since there will no longer be any anti-discrimination laws, hate-crime laws, or anti-bullying laws. Um, by "American Taliban" I'm assuming you mean far right fundamentalist Christians, and not extremist Muslims...

I think in his desire to accommodate both sides he gets really murky about what this all means. He is a preacher. I still don't get all the fluffy words. Either you believe somebody made or is controlling the universe or you don't. Earth friendliness aside, why do we need New Theism? We already have secular humanism.

Yeah so I know it isn't very atheistic of me but every year I walk in the Avon Walk for Breast Cancer. It's 25 days away. I figure since none of you tithe maybe you could drop a few bucks in my donation bucket? You can follow the link in my signature. It will take you to my personal page, I have a little write up there about why I walk and how long I've done it. I'm happy (and proud) to say that in four years I've raised almost $13,400!

So, the other day, after reading Wheat Belly, I decided to go wheat free. Like everything else that's a new discovery for me, I start searching the internet for information, recipes, articles etc.

I was somewhat surprised to find that a LOT of what I found was Christian based blogs. Is healthy eating a religious thing? I thought -- if I read one more "if your husband isn't on board with your new way of meal planning . . . yield to him and pray . . ." I *would* throw up. Can I just have the food discussion please, without the 'side' of religion???

So, the other day, after reading Wheat Belly, I decided to go wheat free. Like everything else that's a new discovery for me, I start searching the internet for information, recipes, articles etc.

I was somewhat surprised to find that a LOT of what I found was Christian based blogs. Is healthy eating a religious thing? I thought -- if I read one more "if your husband isn't on board with your new way of meal planning . . . yield to him and pray . . ." I *would* throw up. Can I just have the food discussion please, without the 'side' of religion???

So, the other day, after reading Wheat Belly, I decided to go wheat free. Like everything else that's a new discovery for me, I start searching the internet for information, recipes, articles etc.

I was somewhat surprised to find that a LOT of what I found was Christian based blogs. Is healthy eating a religious thing? I thought -- if I read one more "if your husband isn't on board with your new way of meal planning . . . yield to him and pray . . ." I *would* throw up. Can I just have the food discussion please, without the 'side' of religion???

A friend of mine went on a Vi-salis (spelling?) diet. I went online and kept trying to find out if it was legitimate or an unhealthy scam. Some anti-Vi-salis blogs were very clearly Christian in exhorting their readers not to put such garbage into their bodies, citing scripture and everything. However, many of the pro-Vi-salis comments after such blogs ALSO invoked God to attack the blog posts.

I was a little surprised that religion entered so deeply into it for some people. (I also decided that if my friend did not experience any headaches or migraines on this diet, that she'd be fine).

God as weapon, hmmmmm.
No sides here, just asides.
I have been investigating the possibility of going on the Wheat Belly Diet. There are three different books on the subject in our library, including a recipe book.
A nurse friend whose opinion I value has explored this extensively and decided that it was unhealthy.
Some of her comments: "Re the books. The one I have is called "Lose the wheat, Lose the weight" by William Davis MD.
Another book, "Wheat Belly" is by the same author and according to reports from Google has had the thumbs down from Canadian readers. I tend to think that one is a rehash of the other and the theories have quite a bit of opposition as most radical diets do when the nutritionists step in. So much academic content in the book that most people would be uphill understanding it, including me!"

The ad on the internet where the author is flogging his books certainly reminds me of "As Seen on TV" sales pitches, including free gifts!
My gut tells me that any diet that advocates extremes (eat mostly protein, no wheat etc, is not a good plan).
My hope is to find a healthy diet with minimum or no processed foods that won't make be a nuissance as a guest, that I can go on for life, otherwise it seems that people just pack it back on when the diet ends.
Let us know what you end up deciding.
I will think for you ;o)
Lilactime

I lost my 75 pounds on WW. It's healthy and doctors are always good with it. I don't mean to be a shill for WW, because I don't work there or anything, but I went with it because it's flexible. We eat out a lot and I wanted to be able to do that and still lose weight and keep it off. But it's also good, probably even easier, if you love to cook at home. You can really do well if you eat healthy non processed foods for the most part.

It's still work, as I can't eat whatever I want when I want. They do emphasize exercise a lot more than they used to. They've tweaked a lot of little things, you no longer are compelled to drink enough water to sink a submarine. That was always hard for me (can you tell?). Sure water is still great, but almost any liquid counts. Coffee, tea, diet coke, yes with caffeine, all count. WW is generally slow to change compared to fad diets but they do follow the research and it has been found that it doesn't have to be water.

But if you don't want to pay for WW, basically the main thing is portion control. I still weigh my cereal every morning.

The other evening, a pretty bad movie, "The Mist," was on TV and DH left it on. One of the characters was a Christian. When the people were holed up in the grocery store while monsters were in the mist, she started preaching about how it was fulfilling the OT etc. etc. Okay, fine. But they really harped on this character, and I really ended up feeling bad for some of the Christians I know because of how this character was portrayed - she was a crazy OT fundie, and just over the wall nuts. And she got way too much screen time. (I did say it was a bad movie.)

I had an argument/debate with a co-worker. He was saying stuff about predictions from the Old Testament and Revelations. It was my personal theory that ANY prediction, if there is no time limit on it, and if it is general and cryptic enough, it will eventually come true, or at least NOT be proven false (one could always say it hadn't come true YET). I said that I could make up a whole bunch of predictions (with no set date as to their occurrence) as well, and claim to be a prophet.

There will always be those people who take predictions and events and say "well, THIS was obviously referring to THAT in the prediction; therefore it is true". And if there is not even one remotely "matching" event in all of our history, then it simply hasn't come true yet.

I had an argument/debate with a co-worker. He was saying stuff about predictions from the Old Testament and Revelations. It was my personal theory that ANY prediction, if there is no time limit on it, and if it is general and cryptic enough, it will eventually come true, or at least NOT be proven false (one could always say it hadn't come true YET). I said that I could make up a whole bunch of predictions (with no set date as to their occurrence) as well, and claim to be a prophet.

There will always be those people who take predictions and events and say "well, THIS was obviously referring to THAT in the prediction; therefore it is true". And if there is not even one remotely "matching" event in all of our history, then it simply hasn't come true yet.

Yep. People with no critical thinking skills - we humans have evolved to see patterns. We see faces in everything, even the moon.

AAAARRRRGH!!! hahahha! i had forgotten all about this group but this is where i should have been! if i hear one more preachy fundamentalist christian spouting of bible crap i might go lay in traffic!!!!

can you tell i have had enough? why is it freakin' everywhere and WHY do i need to be concerned about expressing my opinion? if they can express theirs why can't i express mine?

*breathe*

i know lots of practicing christians might be good people but i tell you i can't see ANY of jesus's teachings in the loudest ones. since when were intolerance & hypocrisy christian values??? i am hoping it will slow down after the election but wow. scares the daylights out of me that some of these people are and could be in government positions and in control of our world. i don't see them as any better than the guys who crashed the planes on 9/11.

i don't care what they believe i just want them to quit trying to push it onto everyone else!

ok back to work for me i just really neeeded to connect with some folks who think like i do!