Very similar but with the 8-speed Alfine and the older Gates belt (not the Centre Track)

The bike was on display at Ausbike as well - liked the bike, but lamented the lack of the newer tech, i.e. Gates Carbon CenterTrack and Alfine 11. Hope they are considering an upgrade - would definitely make my potential next commuter list...

TailWind wrote:The bike was on display at Ausbike as well - liked the bike, but lamented the lack of the newer tech, i.e. Gates Carbon CenterTrack and Alfine 11. Hope they are considering an upgrade - would definitely make my potential next commuter list...

You can lament the lack of specs, or you can celebrate the fact it is about $5-600 cheaper.

Crawf - I imagine the biggest benefit of the CenterTrack belt is that it would make "chainline" alignment less critical. But with a straight frame and an EBB this should be moot.

Actually the main benefit (for me) I'd see that puts the Avanti over the Scott is the 5-bolt chainring. There are more ratio options in this size compared to the 4-bolt.

Crawf wrote:Funny how I'm nearing 7000km on my belt with barely a mark on the teeth. The 5000km claim is outright BS.I wouldn't be so stuck up on the centretrack or no centretrack, it'll still be a sweet ride.

Good, I'll be interested to know how far you actually get and if you need any cog replacement after a belt change. Also how much is a new belt?

I think the reference for the 5000 Km / 3000 miles was a guy who was riding around the world on one. Maybe he got a lot more dirt etc. Could be bothered looking for the link at the moment.

Nobody wrote:Optimistic. The hub itself is about $900 and belt drive setup is about $400. You could be waiting a while.

Yeah, your probably right, far too optimistic i think. Was half expecting (hoping) that maybe a larger bike co scales of economy would see the sum price of all these funky parts (which are mated to some other lower spec parts), down at a lower entry price point, but thats prob awhile away yet. But, i still think there is potentially a huge market for this set up, as it takes a great deal of the hassle out of maintenance and urban riding, maybe within a year theyll be alot cheaper as an n+1 option for myself.

Cruiserman wrote:Wouldnt waste the bandwidth it is Al and we all know you only ride steel - so until you move into the 20th century it is technologically out of your league.

Funny thing is... I'll hang out until they do a carbon version.

Even funnier is that the comment was aimed at our Steel is real and you shouldnt ride anything else forumite. CF is the frame material of choice here too. As for cracked rear stays from panniers - what are they that is why we were given a back so we could carry a backpack. Between a backpack and some planning there is very litte to carry each day.

Belt life is often quoted as being in the range of "hundreds of thousands of km."

Put it this way: How long does a cam belt in a car last?

80 - 120k klms you hope otherwise the cost of replacing it will be multiplied by many times to replace bent valves, damaged pistons as well as a machining of the head, disassembly and reassembly etc. Possibly also the life of a cam belt would be worse than the life of a belt drive for a bike. Oil contamination, startup and shutdown stresses convoluted belt path, heat, coolant spillage, the list goes on. So 5k out of a bike belt and I would be going back to the manufacturer and asking Say What.

Belt life is often quoted as being in the range of "hundreds of thousands of km."

Put it this way: How long does a cam belt in a car last?

80 - 120k klms you hope otherwise the cost of replacing it will be multiplied by many times to replace bent valves, damaged pistons as well as a machining of the head, disassembly and reassembly etc. Possibly also the life of a cam belt would be worse than the life of a belt drive for a bike. Oil contamination, startup and shutdown stresses convoluted belt path, heat, coolant spillage, the list goes on. So 5k out of a bike belt and I would be going back to the manufacturer and asking WT?.

Ironically it's chains that are used in engines where longevity is sought!

In laboratory testing, the Carbon Drive System lasts more than twice the life of chain. Chains are often replaced due to stretch and wear rather than actual failure. The Carbon Drive belt does not stretch, so the smooth running performance remains consistent throughout its life. Abrasive environments can accelerate wear of all bike components. For maximum durability, rinse off your belt drive after sandy / gritty ride.

The thing is, how many people here use belt drives? I only know of one. As it's a fairly new thing and uncommon, there isn't a big enough sample to do a proper comparison on wear and tear on belt drives v. chains. Maybe 3 to 5 years down the track when more of us have a belt drive bike to make an adequate comparison.

In laboratory testing, the Carbon Drive System lasts more than twice the life of chain. Chains are often replaced due to stretch and wear rather than actual failure. The Carbon Drive belt does not stretch, so the smooth running performance remains consistent throughout its life. Abrasive environments can accelerate wear of all bike components. For maximum durability, rinse off your belt drive after sandy / gritty ride.

The thing is, how many people here use belt drives? I only know of one. As it's a fairly new thing and uncommon, there isn't a big enough sample to do a proper comparison on wear and tear on belt drives v. chains. Maybe 3 to 5 years down the track when more of us have a belt drive bike to make an adequate comparison.

Thanks CR.

If they last twice as long but cost four times as much, it won't be economics that drives the change to this system.

So what does a round-the-world record bike look like? Well, a bit dusty and with some odd-looking appendages, but the Travelmaster has seen off its 18,000 miles without major incident. The belt only needed to be changed once during the whole trip, in Perth, and James was really happy with the performance of the drivetrain. The 14-speed Rohloff hub gives a gearing range equivalent to a triple chainset â€“ over 500% â€“ and it doesn't require any lubrication. Getting the belt properly aligned (it's much more critical than with a chain) and tensioned (it requires much more tension to work efficiently) are the main issues, but given that we're seeing plenty of the belts coming through onto production machines now it seems that many manufacturers, Santos included, think the benefits for certain applications outweigh the problems.

So what does a round-the-world record bike look like? Well, a bit dusty and with some odd-looking appendages, but the Travelmaster has seen off its 18,000 miles without major incident. The belt only needed to be changed once during the whole trip, in Perth, and James was really happy with the performance of the drivetrain. The 14-speed Rohloff hub gives a gearing range equivalent to a triple chainset â€“ over 500% â€“ and it doesn't require any lubrication. Getting the belt properly aligned (it's much more critical than with a chain) and tensioned (it requires much more tension to work efficiently) are the main issues, but given that we're seeing plenty of the belts coming through onto production machines now it seems that many manufacturers, Santos included, think the benefits for certain applications outweigh the problems.

It's still heaps lower than the life expectancy of my car belt though. I changed it at I think around 100K km so I wonder why he needed to change his belt drive - whether it had loosened or because of foreign objects from unsealed terrains.

Cam belts, although exposed to some oil and coolant at times, is still under a cover. I suspect the 9-18K is because it was exposed to the elements. I've heard chains in full chain cases last many years on bicycles.

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