Skepticism

EVENTS

Into the heart of Morridor

It’s just been a fun day — we’re having a dreadful nasty snowstorm (it’s April! It’s Minnesota!), so we had to drive in last night, lest we get snowed in and to remove any temptation to rush, and after a harrowing 5 hour drive I’ve been stashed in a motel. Next up is a quick hop to the airport, and then…Salt Lake City!

@2…On the campus of the Mormon church in SLC (enormous place), they give tours. You can go into the tabernacle but not the cathedral if you’re a non-Mormon. The tour guides are all young people, there on their 2-year “mission” (aka, unpaid internship).

It is a studied practice of racial diversity. There’s a white kid, a black kid, a Latino kid, an Asian kid, and on and on. Buzzing about looking cheerful, because that’s their job.

Saw one of them having a beer and a cig in a local bar — bartender had to remind the kid to take her name badge off. Church frowns on the beer-and-cig-after-work thing. She rolled her eyes, but stashed the name badge.

Is a religion like Mormonism fundamentally a force for good, or a “poison” that “deserves to die”?

Those were the two opposing views presented Wednesday night during a panel discussion at the downtown Salt Lake City Main Library. On one side, American Atheists President David Silverman and author, ex-Mormon and ex-polygamist Joanne Hanks argued that religion basically brainwashes its members. Silverman, in particular, came out swinging, repeatedly describing the faithful as “victims” of their respective religions.

On the other side, Brigham Young University religion professors J.B. Haws and Richard Holzapfel argued in favor of religion. Their point: that despite failings of individual members, Mormonism is ultimately a force for good.

The discussion — which moderator Paul Reeve said was “not a debate” — focused most intensely on the idea of inclusiveness. Silverman argued that religion generally, and Mormonism in particular, produces exclusive groups that shun outsiders. As evidence, he said his organization was unable to purchase billboard space in Utah and that many Mormon youths are expelled from their families for coming out as atheists or for being gay.

“Religion is bad, religion is a poison, religion does not deserve to live,” Silverman added. He quickly clarified that he was talking about institutions, not religious people individually.

The filled-to-capacity crowd clearly agreed with Silverman, repeatedly clapping during his comments and occasionally cheering.

But the BYU professors resisted Silverman’s characterization. While they acknowledged that shunning does happen, they argued that it’s not part of the religion itself.

We visited SLC for a genealogy trip about 20 years ago and stayed in a hotel across the street from Temple Square and next door to the “Family History” library. I was quite astounded by the evening wait-staff in the hotel restaurant. Until then, it had never occurred to me that there could be that many gay men in the whole state of Utah.

From the readers comments associated with the Salt Lake Tribune article (link in #6) — these are mormon commenters, I assume:

It’s so sad you never experienced the truth, and you are left to kick against the thorns of your life.
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[…]You are doing the opposite of what he [Jesus] has commanded you to do. Just a thought for you as you take the Sacrament next Sunday, or renew your temple recommend.
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The LDS are the most ripe for perdition for altering the Book of Mormon after they had the restored truth and apostatized from it. [Must be an FLDS member]
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Stop bashing what you don’t understand simply because you’re too chicken to put forth the effort to understand.
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Join us or not. It’s your choice. If you feel like we Mormons treat you
like second class citizens: the problem is yours, own it.

The majority of the readers comments are pro-atheism and reasonable in pointing out the flaws of mormonism, which is nice to see. Here’s an example:

Contact the Homeless Youth Resource Center in Salt Lake and ask them how many homeless teens they serve, and what percentage of those were kicked out/forced to leave their LDS homes because they chose not to be LDS or came out as LGBTQ to their families.

That was written in response to mormons claiming that their church and most of their members do not shun anyone.

Join us or not. It’s your choice. If you feel like we Mormons treat you
like second class citizens: the problem is yours, own it.

They do exactly that when they can.

Utah is only 60% Mormon but they own the state and most of the legislators are Mormon.

This is because the Mormons quite openly and deliberately gerrymandered the state by religion. The xians and other nonMormons are herded into a few small areas.

This only matters if you want to vote in a democracy and have it matter.

Oddly enough, Salt Lake City is one of the ghettos. It’s majority nonMormon and the mayor is usually one of the few elected nonMormons. The LDS church is total misogynist but one of the mayors was a female feminist.

Faux News – it is snowing in Minnesota in April at the university of that dreadful PZ Meyers who believes in book burning and destroying peoples faith in the lord Jesus; it is a sign from god and a demonstration once again that Global Warming is a hoax, when are we gonna build the Keystone XL pipeline with its 20 temporary jobs.