The Dahua "Hacked The World Over" Gag Graphic Was Uncalled For And Unprofessional

Undisclosed Integrator #1

The analyses of products might be relatively fair but some of the discussion content here is not. I have no dog in this fight as an installer/user but I thought the Dahua "Hacked the World Over" gag graphic, for example, was uncalled for and unprofessional.

Who would have thought that someone who rubs salt in the wound might be unpopular with manufacturers! Imagine that...

I pay for a subscription here because I want quality content and discussion, not tabloid journalism and schadenfreude. Sometimes I'm left disappointed.

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John Honovich

I made this its own post so it can be address / seen without being buried in a different discussion.

And my primary response to that concern:

As for the 'hacked the world over' image, I genuinely believe it was on-point satire.

If we put a manufacturer's wordmark in a pile of poop or smashed a company's products in anger, that would clearly be childish as there would be no greater point than to demean the company.

But the 'hacked the world over' graphic was directly satirizing Dahua's recent 'proven the world over' marketing campaign that was trying to establish credibility and, the point of our graphic, was that the large scale hacking significantly undermined their credibility and hurt their customers.

I will not be mad at you if you still disagree. I am just trying to explain the logic behind it for you and readers in general.

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Undisclosed Integrator #1

I understand and appreciate the clarification. Make no mistake I'm no Dahua fan, I never liked the UI for their products. I thought the graphic was a bit in poor taste though considering that people will probably lose jobs over this, Dahua certainly has lost customers over this, and while some of it may be deserved not everyone that will be affected necessarily deserves it. If you however consider the Hik article that accuses IPVM of "cyberbullying" then something such as this seems to play into that.

But again, my opinion is worth precisely what you paid for it. I am grateful for the technical content which is miles beyond anything else on the internet. I just need to keep in mind this still is, after all, an internet forum.

I am glad you raised the 'cyberbullying' angle because it is clear that the power dynamics here and what we criticize does not make this cyberbullying.

Hikvision has ~$5 billion in annual revenue, 20,000 employees; Dahua has ~$2 billion in annual revenue, 10,000 employees. IPVM is roughly 1,000 times smaller than that. This is like David bullying Goliath.

Powerful corporations merit criticism and those corporations ability to shut down the media (notice how no media in our industry would dare criticize or report negatively on Dahua or Hikvision) creates this surreal situation where criticism of business practices results in accusations of corporations being bullied.

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David Delepine

I am a Dahua dealer. If I am to believe what my reps say, my small company (<10 employees) is one of the more successful dealers in so cal (+/- 100K worth of Dahua products sold this year). I have become friends with one of my reps, even invited him and his family to our baby shower back in June.

With all of that being said, I honestly feel the gag graphic was, and still is, hilarious! However I am also one of those people who can, and often has reason to, laugh at their own mistakes. Screw ups happen, and if you get too caught up in damage control, pr, and excusing your mistakes then that makes you a person/company not deserving of my respect. Look at all the dealers who get bent out of shape when some report comes out showing the errors their manufacturer made. Why? Do they think that proverbial crying and yelling is going to make the problem go away?

The Dahua hack sucked. It is not their first time having these kinds of issues. I wish they had taken a more direct and stand up approach (which they did a much better job of earlier in the year with the backdoor issues). So in the midst of all their promoting and patting themselves on the back, a little well deserved satire is fitting and when I woke up and saw that picture and headline it made me feel better about the situation.

Am I still using Dahua? Yes but I will be honest and say I am keeping an open mind and reconsidering how I want to structure my camera sales. Maybe put in another brand or two into the product mix, so I am not solely relying on one manufacturer and feeling joined at the hip to them.

Are these thoughts I am having the fault of IPVM? No, actually looking at the quality/price ratio, which IPVM has honestly and fairly reported on through the shootouts and product reviews, reaffirmed my product choice. Also IPVM has hundreds, if not thousands, of other product reviews that I can use to research the next player in my lineup.

Anyways rant is over. Go IPVM for being criticized the security industry over! Know that you are doing something right when the best your critics can do is accuse you of "cyberbullying"... that term makes me just imagine some poor C-suite exec probably crying under their over priced desk right now, having to dry their tears with hundred dollar bills because of being terrorized by John Honavich the cyberbully!!!

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Undisclosed Manufacturer #4

When I entered the hall at ASIS and saw the graphics, I immediately thought about taking a sharpie and writing the same exact thing. I think that with the current climate, it should be expected. Parody is protected speech and tells you a lot.

I personally do not think it was crossing the line. Look at what various comic strips have spoken about current events.... And freedom of the press, which is a crucial tenant of our country and by many a basic human right.

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John Honovich

And freedom of the press, which is a crucial tenant of our country and by many a basic human right.

In China, not only is there no freedom of the press (nor speech) but the Chinese government is happy to imprison those they deem to be "picking quarrels and stirring up trouble," which suppresses criticism since people are afraid to be jailed and those not afraid, go to jail.

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Undisclosed Integrator #1

Just to be clear I didn't think it was necessarily "crossing a line" although I kind of expected it to be more something the peanut gallery might mock up in the discussion thread rather than come from the admins of the site itself.

My opinion though seems to be in the minority so that's cool, no harm no foul.

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Undisclosed Integrator #1

Not surprising, although the transparency IPVM provides is a boon to integrators and end users. Certainly IPVM has been quite flattering to most manufacturers in reviewing some of their offerings (the Hikvision Darkfighter is one that comes to mind since I was reading it today).

Now it's not my place to tell anyone how they should be writing their articles here, but I just can't help think if the tone of some articles that draw negative attention to manufacturers was perhaps structured differently with slightly less confrontational language, IPVM may benefit from increased manufacturer participation without conceding anything to them. That could be a tricky balance that maybe isn't worthwhile or even desired by the IPVM staff and indeed it somewhat appears that the conflict is something they almost thrive on.

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John Honovich

slightly less confrontational language, IPVM may benefit from increased manufacturer participation without conceding anything to them. That could be a tricky balance

I agree with you that there is a tricky balance to achieve. It depends what you consider confrontational language, but we focus more on avoiding ad hominem and personal attacks vs avoiding confrontation.

For example, to Hikvision, saying they are controlled by the Chinese government is super confrontational but, based on their own records, it is a statement of fact. We can only avoid that confrontation by giving in to Hikvision's demands to not report facts. That we will not do.

As for Dahua, Dahua's new management team has been participating with us, promptly providing clear responses to questions on issues we have.

As you mention, our test results show that IPVM is a fair organization and I am quite confident that the many manufacturers who talk to us privately know we are reasonable and open to dialogue and feedback from companies

All that being said, I do appreciate the comment and agree about keeping a balance and avoiding unnecessary confrontation.

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