The Average American Worker Has Made No Progress In The Past Decadehttp://www.businessinsider.com/average-wage-growth-in-the-us-2013-8/comments
en-usWed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 -0500Fri, 09 Dec 2016 10:01:58 -0500Max Nisenhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/5225d4f969bedda646ecaa1aEd KirbyTue, 03 Sep 2013 08:24:25 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5225d4f969bedda646ecaa1a
So much for trickle down economics, trickle up maybe.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/52251611eab8ea803d9c0f0aErikKengaardMon, 02 Sep 2013 18:49:53 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/52251611eab8ea803d9c0f0a
“After World War I, laws were passed severely limiting immigration. Only a trickle of immigrants has been admitted since then. . .By keeping labor supply down, immigration restriction tends to keep wages high. Let us underline this basic principle: Limitation of the supply of any grade of labor relative to all other productive factors can be expected to raise its wage rate; an increase in supply will, other things being equal, tend to depress wage rates” Paul Samuelson, quoted by Professor George Borjas, Harvard
"The connection between the oversupply of labour and plummeting living standards for the poor is one of the more robust generalisations in history." Peter Turchin, Return of the oppressed, aeon magazine.
"the law of supply and demand is immutable" New York Times, July 20. 2013 in "Being Legal Doesn’t End Poverty"http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5224f1d3eab8ea8e6f9c0f0dETB CardsMon, 02 Sep 2013 16:15:15 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5224f1d3eab8ea8e6f9c0f0d
Most people will receive more in total annual income in the form of benefits transferred to the individual as the years spin by. Politicians will top up your citizen compensation package with an array of benefits in lieu of cash like Affordable Health Care, publicly funded education, military adventures and what is a growing list of entitlements.
Corporations are not money tree that can be raided endlessly as they can simply outsource or leave entirely.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5224f0186bb3f78837461a73Marc Weiss is #1Mon, 02 Sep 2013 16:07:52 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5224f0186bb3f78837461a73
Mr. Weiss has posted previously and is realistic in his perception. Distributions in the trillions of dollars are being distributed to the population in the USA whether they are employed or not and these obligations are increasing by any measure. This is called the Social Wage. As the numbers being supported without employment is well over 100 million the amount of money available as cash for wages declines in real terms.
The pay raise you want is being expended on the 90 million permanently out of the workforce, the 50 million on food stamps and the 60+ million on SocSec.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/52249b34ecad047c1eb43aa1sally EdelsteinMon, 02 Sep 2013 10:05:40 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/52249b34ecad047c1eb43aa1
Once upon a time, American workers were spurred on at work by a series of motivational posters that hung in factories and offices across the country. Company's such as General Motors, Kodak and Kelloggs all hung these colorful posters that were a graphic expression of Good American Work Ethic. A childhood visit to a family run business brought me face to face with those same motivational posters Take a look <a href="http://wp.me/p2qifI-IO" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" >http://wp.me/p2qifI-IO</a>http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5224145369bedd455b8b459ezunguriMon, 02 Sep 2013 00:30:11 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5224145369bedd455b8b459e
That is exactly as it should be.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/522413416bb3f7d3168b4572todddMon, 02 Sep 2013 00:25:37 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/522413416bb3f7d3168b4572
And then corporation X can exploit labor X, and consumers Y, buy giving peanuts to labor X and stealing the money from consumers Y....that some other schmuck company was dumb enough to pay them a living wage.
Result? Corporation X sitting on billions in profits because there is no competition, because they have leverage no one else has.
Result? Prices stay the same, wages fall, and corporations take the difference.
The problem is the economy is running like economics taught us it should. In a competitive market either prices go down or salaries go up. Neither is happening.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5224110b6bb3f749128b4576todddMon, 02 Sep 2013 00:16:11 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5224110b6bb3f749128b4576
Alabama? Sounds about right.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/52240feeecad0450108b4577Unemployed Silicon Valley EngineerMon, 02 Sep 2013 00:11:26 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/52240feeecad0450108b4577
"Corporations are organized for shareholders, not workers, and if the market supports low wages, they'll stay low. That means the solution to this problem is going to have to come from government."
Is Max Nisen a right wing propagandist?
Well, corporations might be technically for the shareholders, but only amplifying the benefits solely to them and management has its own social consequences.
Like mass poverty, unemployment, riots, even revolutions (don't forget the commies from the past), etc.
I don't see these really in the benefit of corporations in the long run.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/52240a856bb3f7c5048b456aEpic WinnerSun, 01 Sep 2013 23:48:21 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/52240a856bb3f7c5048b456a
The best bet for younger workers especially is to simply leave the United States. That's what I'm in the process of doing.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/52237f5d6bb3f7957d0baf32zunguriSun, 01 Sep 2013 13:54:37 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/52237f5d6bb3f7957d0baf32
You mean the same American worker that can't complete high school or chooses philosophy in college? Good luck with that. It'll only work if you can make the "war" run on the X-box in their parent's basement.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/52237e66eab8ea9f760baf1czunguriSun, 01 Sep 2013 13:50:30 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/52237e66eab8ea9f760baf1c
I know of no employers who truly expect employee loyalty. (Incompetent middle-managers may, but executive management knows better.) It is only fair to tell workers that they should exhibit the same level of loyalty to employers that they are shown by employers.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/52237d1eecad0475730baf34zunguriSun, 01 Sep 2013 13:45:02 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/52237d1eecad0475730baf34
"Somehow they get a great education but US citizens going to the exact same schools do not."
In other words, citizens are lazy and don't perform as well as foreigners in school. That's what an entitlement society breeds. It's exactly what we deserve.
There was a study a while back looking at the majors chosen by foreign v. US students. The foreign students were choosing math and sciences while a larger portion of the Americans were choosing useless majors.
Although education is a factor, it is more about the economics of the employment markets. You can refer to it as power, but that power comes from conventional supply and demand forces. Globalization is one of the key tools used to expand supply and keep wages down even as productivity increases. This is exactly why businesses support globalization efforts.
Of course there is no driving force to give the profits from this shift to workers. Just as corporations are meant to, this profit goes to the shareholders and management.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/52237a05ecad04c2770baf1ezunguriSun, 01 Sep 2013 13:31:49 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/52237a05ecad04c2770baf1e
Globalization is doing exactly what it is meant to do. It is pulling down costs. Find the place where large numbers of workers with skill X are employed (at lowest cost) and you then can identify a target wage for US workers with skill X.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5223464e6bb3f7f0150baf32Roll TideSun, 01 Sep 2013 09:51:10 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5223464e6bb3f7f0150baf32
My wife worked the concession stand this last Friday night at the son's football game at our solid middle-class high school. Many students gave her $5, ordered two, $2 hotdogs, and asked if they had enough money to buy a $1 drink. Over, and over. She refused to answer, instead asking them how much change they were due - typical response was, "I failed algebra."
THere are too many layers of problems in that scenario to attempt to solve them in a posting here, yet those 12th graders are about to populate the bottom lines in those charts (again, as I said, for a variety of reasons).Heavy sigh......http://www.businessinsider.com/c/522345fdeab8ea6a740baf45EvolvingSun, 01 Sep 2013 09:49:49 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/522345fdeab8ea6a740baf45
"It's hard to pinpoint exactly why that's happened."
Well no, not really. Globalization has come home to roost. Off-shore, downsize, etc, etc.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/522345f3ecad04990f0baf7esoylowellSun, 01 Sep 2013 09:49:39 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/522345f3ecad04990f0baf7e
Well BI runs about 2-3 stories per week profiling happy hipster techies at different startups, so where's your dignity?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5223410c6bb3f707020baf3aWHY WORKSun, 01 Sep 2013 09:28:44 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5223410c6bb3f707020baf3a
I am a tech worker, genius.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/52233b70eab8ea2e5d0baf3bsoylowellSun, 01 Sep 2013 09:04:48 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/52233b70eab8ea2e5d0baf3b
Oil field workers and tech workers seem to have dignity. Maybe that's just because they obtained skills that others value.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/522333fdecad04ed770baf1cI WOULD RATHER MAKE NOTHINGSun, 01 Sep 2013 08:33:01 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/522333fdecad04ed770baf1c
Than make the same salary I made a decade ago!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/52233332eab8ea2d5d0baf1cWHY WORKSun, 01 Sep 2013 08:29:38 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/52233332eab8ea2d5d0baf1c
Why work when salaries have been stagnant for over 10 years!? Do workers have any dignity left or do they just accept what's given to them?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/52221448ecad04f43b80de2aJosiah's editor :PSat, 31 Aug 2013 12:05:28 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/52221448ecad04f43b80de2a
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44LHBViTZI0" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44LHBViTZI0</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDhcqua3_W8" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDhcqua3_W8</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8SLIt7xZxU" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8SLIt7xZxU</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ttbj6LAu0A" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ttbj6LAu0A</a>
all are between 3-7 mins long--and provide comprehensive sourceshttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/52220e39eab8ea256df0fc90JosiahSat, 31 Aug 2013 11:39:37 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/52220e39eab8ea256df0fc90
another important statistic: in 2000, we were the second most economically free country in the world, by 2010, we were the 13th most economically free country in the world--and it has been dropping. we can thank the bush administration for that one--and now obama. and, up UNTIL 2000, standards of living had been increasing--then it took a downward slope.
it goes to show that in someones greedy goal to get rich--prices get cheaper to get a broader buyer base (including impoverished), and people's standards of living go up, both because of the improved products (fueled by the endeavor of money making) and because of a competitive market for labor--just like anything else.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/52211eed6bb3f7b8718b4574marc weissFri, 30 Aug 2013 18:38:37 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/52211eed6bb3f7b8718b4574
Does Business Insider believe in journalism? The answer is no. why? they only present one fact while systemically ignoring other facts.
BI ignores the fact that the unfunded liabilities that the middle class enjoys has skyrocketed over the last decade
<a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/05/51-of-americans-pay-no-federal-income-taxes/238329/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" >http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/05/51-of-americans-pay-no-federal-income-taxes/238329/</a>
and BI ignores the fact that the tax burden for the middle class has decreased significantly.
<a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/05/51-of-americans-pay-no-federal-income-taxes/238329/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" >http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/05/51-of-americans-pay-no-federal-income-taxes/238329/</a>
So middle class wages have stagnated but the value of their entitlements is increasing and they are paying less for these entitlements.
Will someone at BI please present the complete picture. I challenge you to elevate your journalistic integrity beyond your narrow agenda.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/521f1ca469beddfa227c880dEd KirbyThu, 29 Aug 2013 06:04:20 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/521f1ca469beddfa227c880d
Whats needed is a war for the Average American Worker.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/521e783969bedd3c3ea837b7john1066Wed, 28 Aug 2013 18:22:49 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/521e783969bedd3c3ea837b7
Actually no. See companies want to lower wages and employees want the highest wage they can get for a given job.
What sets the wage is negotiations.
Now involved with negotiations is many thing including education, how many people are applying for the job, work experience, who you know, luck, etc. It's many, many things.
Education is part but only a part of negotiations. So the reality is no it is not the real issue.
Now it's funny how people will come from many places across the globe for a US higher education. But you fail to mention that. Somehow they get a great education but US citizens going to the exact same schools do not.
Now how many people have a college and still are forced to work a McJob?
The people at the 95th and above are seeing their wages go up much faster. That's 5%.
Add in...
<a href="http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2011/10/25/income-growth-of-top-1-over-30-years-outpaced-rest-of-u-s/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" >http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2011/10/25/income-growth-of-top-1-over-30-years-outpaced-rest-of-u-s/</a>
"The top 1% of the population accounted for 60% of all such income in 2007, up from 50% in 1979."
"The wealthiest 1% of Americans saw their incomes skyrocket by 275% during that stretch, while after-tax income for the one-fifth of households with the lowest income grew by just 18% from 1979 to 2007."
So no it's not education.
Its companies having the power to set wages and using that power to do it.
Those at the top are the ones to get the profits from the companies so their incomes go up and go up very fast.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/521e6d6aeab8ea55732e0784Mike MatheaWed, 28 Aug 2013 17:36:42 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/521e6d6aeab8ea55732e0784
Missed the point completely, Average real wages are constant while productivity is increasing because the educational system has failed. Those workers with the skills to operate state of the art equipment are seeing higher wages. The problem is the average high school graduate is receiving 1990 skills so they are unable to operate state of the art equipment and are doomed to lower wage service jobs.
Fix the educational system so the graduates have 2015 skills and you will see average real wage increases.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/521e6d2deab8ea986e2e078dTom FioreWed, 28 Aug 2013 17:35:41 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/521e6d2deab8ea986e2e078d
I don't know that corporations are organized for shareholders at this point either. It seems to me that the interests of upper management and financial market players are those that are served at this point more than the average shareholder.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/521e6c5b69beddb721a837c5Tom FioreWed, 28 Aug 2013 17:32:11 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/521e6c5b69beddb721a837c5
Do you mean leave or that they will be cashiered? Even if they leave on their own can you really expect employee loyalty when they can expect none from the employer?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/521e6b40eab8ea3f6a2e0788beckWed, 28 Aug 2013 17:27:28 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/521e6b40eab8ea3f6a2e0788
How interesting that this one-sided story came from a former reporter for Al Jazeera. For this analysis to be properly done, you would have to also take into account all the additional benefits government provides today vs ten years ago. Also need to take into account the higher quality of products today vs 10 years. Also need to take into account the lower "real" cost of food today vs 10 years ago. And these are only to name a few. Bottom line, the article does not properly analyze whether a worker is better off. It merely focuses on one piece of the equation. Very incomeplete and poor, sloppy, lazy, biased reporting.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/521e676aecad04db52e86436AFWed, 28 Aug 2013 17:11:06 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/521e676aecad04db52e86436
As far as the dip in the 70%, that might be attributed to the amount of people switching jobs. Why pay someone market value when you expect them to leave within 2 years, especially at an entry/lower level position.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/521e60aa69bedda20ca837b8fredlledWed, 28 Aug 2013 16:42:18 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/521e60aa69bedda20ca837b8
Exactly! Screw the workers out of every last cent, until they explode and destroy the planet and then move on to the next star system. No one can stop CEO: Devourer of Worlds!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/521e5bdaeab8eab4512e0778john1066Wed, 28 Aug 2013 16:21:46 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/521e5bdaeab8eab4512e0778
Funny how the ultra rich and their sycophant buddies go on and on about how productivity must improve to increase wages and the number of jobs.
This shows that that is just an out right lie and it is only to make those people more money and to give them more power.