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Originally posted by Oyjord

Agreed, it's a very fun PvP game, but it needs 5-man dungeons a-la WoW. I know, I'm the anti-Christ for saying WoW did something right. But honestly, a content-rich PvE experience could only help the few PvP'ers left in WAR.

No...a game doesn't have to be a clone of Wow to succeed. Viva la difference. ..thats what modern day gamers don't get.

Online games existed LONG before Wow was a twinkle in some Blizz dev's eye. That gets totally forgotten in the mindthink "if it doesn't have 11 million subs it FAILS".

Mythic failed us, because they forgot how DAOC SUCCEEDED. DAOC (back in the day) was all about REALM PRIDE..not how many shiney cookies you got if you participated..(ala Wow)

We fought to protect our territory, our keeps..because they were OURS ...not because we won shinies. The pvp fights in DAOC were unpredictable...non-linear..enemies sneaking up on you from behind trees in the Old Frontiers.

Yeah I died alot in those days, but I also had some mini triumphs and I gained alot of friends. There would be system messages when someone was killed by a "bad guy"....multiple tells coming my way...where is he? What direction did he go? I'm coming to avenge your death.

We had a TON of fun in those days..and Mythic forgot what that was all about.

First off...scenarios............ugh. PVP in a little box. Just like Wow. Why??? Mythic? Didn't you trademark Realm vs Realm (tm) Yeah you did. It was supposed to mean something.......it turned into a copycat of Wow battlegrounds.

The dungeon in Daoc, where one faction could own it one day, another the next, ..etc That was fun, exciting. If you went in there solo, you would be sure to get your behind handed to you by the faction that "owned" it for that time period.

It was fun wandering or running around out in the Old Frontiers...running through the snow down to the gates, expecting to be ambushed any second...

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Like the author suggested, I find Tier 1 to be the most fun. Tier 2 is still fun, and adds new elements, but not as much fun as tier 1. Tier 3 is pretty much the exact same as Tier 2, except with new locations and rewards.

T2 and T3 pretty much amount to constant flying between zones to capture whatever keep is not defended, and lots of Battle Objective taking which is tedious and gets old very quickly.

Why do warbands avoid each other and mostly go for undefended keeps? If you pit one Warband against another, the one inside the keep defending will beat the one outside the keep on offense 9 times out of 10. Oil is overpowered and can be HEALED, and 2-shots people trying to enter a keep. It's too easy to defend, and too hard to attack. So instead of engaging PVP/RVR, you PVE and avoid the other sides players. Kind of counter-intuitive for a PVP game, there should be incentives to fight rather than avoid.

---------------ENd QUOTE

This is another reason I got fed up...whats the thrill in taking an undefended keep? (another reason I left) I don't know about players nowadays...thats not how we played. The more defending a keep..the more exciting the battle was..in DAOC at least. There you could repair damaged gates etc and keep pushing the battle more.

I don't know how many warbands I left because of this mindthink "oh its defended..lets jet to such and such a zone..for an undefended keep" Huh? This is supposed to be pvp..not a race for shineys.

Again I think this is partially Mythic's fault, and the rest is..well the generation that played Wow. Eleven million subs coming to a game near you.

There's no heart in the game, nothing interesting about it..if your peers insist on running away from battles. Onto the next undefended shiney!! Sheesh

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The keeps and BOs are spaced far apart, requiring lots of running around, and now there's 6 for each pairing, instead of the 3 or 4 in T1.

If you check the maps and see where they are, by the time you all fly over and get everyone organized, they're all done and gone.

This is one of the fundamental problems with WAR IMO - the zone design.

The zones seem to be deliberately over-sized and difficult to navigate. Why would anyone want to make it difficult for players to get from point A to point B when you *should* be trying to get them together so they can fight?

Most of my memories of open-world RvR the game involve running around rather than fighting. Or getting lost trying to find the fight until I could learn the convoluted zone layout which the inaccurate maps did not help.

Or sitting around waiting for that 3min BO timer to run down. Never once did I have an opposing force attack my warband during the 3 min timer, it's a useless mechanic.

I liked the Scenarios in WAR but the PvE, Crafting and open-world parts of the game need serious work. The lack of RP mechanics doesn't help either, I understand you can finally /sit in the game. Simple things like that should have been in from the start.

Perhaps Mythic's directed beta-testing is partly at fault. They did not leave the servers up but instead used 'focused' beta-tests. Maybe a MMORPG needs a closed beta-test where the servers are up 24/7.

I was in the closed beta for Warhammer.....they were very strict and you sometimes could NOT ask certain questions ..or be labelled as "speculating".

We often pointed out what we saw as problems..with class balancing etc ..but I got the sense we were largely ignored.

The crafting definitely needed work, although at the time, they didn't figure it would be fleshed out any more than it was. Scenarios became areas where the same folks would hang out ..all the time with their "pre-templated" classes...owning over and over again with certain over powered classes.

I don't know if thats still the case today..if those issues have been fixed or not. I am going on what I saw before I left. It seemed sometimes that the things we pointed out in closed beta, were "fixed" to Mythic's liking..but exactly the opposite of what was required. They weren't listening then. I give them credit for patches produced soon after release and all that..but I think the damage was already done. The class imbalances remained at release and continued on for many months after.

My whole guild left......fed up, disappointed. I felt the same way. It COULD have been a massive, exciting great game.

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Originally posted by Cendharia

Originally posted by Oyjord

Agreed, it's a very fun PvP game, but it needs 5-man dungeons a-la WoW. I know, I'm the anti-Christ for saying WoW did something right. But honestly, a content-rich PvE experience could only help the few PvP'ers left in WAR.

No...a game doesn't have to be a clone of Wow to succeed. Viva la difference. ..thats what modern day gamers don't get.

Online games existed LONG before Wow was a twinkle in some Blizz dev's eye. That gets totally forgotten in the mindthink "if it doesn't have 11 million subs it FAILS".

Mythic failed us, because they forgot how DAOC SUCCEEDED. DAOC (back in the day) was all about REALM PRIDE..not how many shiney cookies you got if you participated..(ala Wow)

We fought to protect our territory, our keeps..because they were OURS ...not because we won shinies. The pvp fights in DAOC were unpredictable...non-linear..enemies sneaking up on you from behind trees in the Old Frontiers.

Yeah I died alot in those days, but I also had some mini triumphs and I gained alot of friends. There would be system messages when someone was killed by a "bad guy"....multiple tells coming my way...where is he? What direction did he go? I'm coming to avenge your death.

We had a TON of fun in those days..and Mythic forgot what that was all about.

First off...scenarios............ugh. PVP in a little box. Just like Wow. Why??? Mythic? Didn't you trademark Realm vs Realm (tm) Yeah you did. It was supposed to mean something.......it turned into a copycat of Wow battlegrounds.

The dungeon in Daoc, where one faction could own it one day, another the next, ..etc That was fun, exciting. If you went in there solo, you would be sure to get your behind handed to you by the faction that "owned" it for that time period.

It was fun wandering or running around out in the Old Frontiers...running through the snow down to the gates, expecting to be ambushed any second...

Thats why I left Mythic....get back to what you know..get rid of trying to copy other games, make it fun like it was back in the day...and I'll come back.

Nice post, however i don't think we'll ever see it again. DAOC zones felt like daoc zones, anyone remember mulspheium(Sp?) you couldn't friggin SEE in that zone, it was like it was real. Just like the snowy zones of upland, odins gate or yggdra....

IT WAS IMMERSIVE.. And i am a hardcore pvp'r not even an RPG'R but i was IMMERSED in the old school daoc graphics/zones