“This all caused me to wonder if maybe Richard Grenell experienced the same sort of thing, an increase in the volume of hate mail from angry left-wing gays and extreme social conservatives, hence his observation that “my ability to speak clearly and forcefully on the issues has been greatly diminished by the hyper-partisan discussion of personal issues that sometimes comes from a presidential campaign.””

There’s probably an articulable difference between the hate of a liberal gay who thinks of conservative gays as Quisling lapdogs and cannot understand the forfeiture of legal parity that you espouse and embrace (and yet still wants you to have that parity) … and the hate of a social conservative who thinks all gays should die in a fire before they go to Hell.

Dan, I don’t doubt that Grenell received hate mail from the gay left and anti-gay social conservatives. Shame on all of them. But I still doubt that it was any of the hate from the left that influenced Grenell’s (or Romney or Romney’s people) to decide that it was best to leave his post. And it appeared it also had more to do with Mr. Fischer’s anti-gay bile, and the fact that there is still a significant number of followers of people like Fischer.

I love gay hyperbole. What is an “extreme social conservative”?

RJLigier, I love hyperbole of all types. But in answer to your query, one example would be those who actually believe and behave like Bryan Fischer. Where I might disagree with Dan here, is that being civil does not necessarily make one not extreme. Also, one who is extreme, may not view themselves that way. For example, Fischer probably thinks that he is mainstream, and actually thinks he is not bigoted and that his actions are somehow moral. Go figure.

Edmund, a couple of things. First of all, some of the hate from the gay left can be just as extreme. For example, some on the gay left had wished for Mary Cheney’s baby to die. Pretty ugly, right? And also, it doesn’t have to rise to the level of “all gays should burn in a fire” to be considered hateful.

Pat @ 6 – I concur with both of your conclusions. However, in general, I stand by my statement. Gays on the left may be angry at conservagays (that’s a pre-morning-tea abbreviation). But they still want them to live and have all the benefits and responsibilities under the law that every gay person should have. FULL LEGAL PARITY is the goal, and reasonable people can disagree about how to get there or how long it should take. But I don’t think that leftygays actively wish conservagays any actual harm. The anger comes from the perceived viewof leftygays that conservagays are entitled or apathetic: “I got mine, screw you.” And to be frank, I do see more than a little of that attitude here sometimes.

This is not the same as some – and by some, I mean many – social conservatives, with their “Gentlemen’s Agreements” to fire gay people, and their constant vitriol, and attempts to stifle anti-bullying programs in public schools. Make no mistake – they do not care how deeply your conservatism runs and how much conviction you have about it. You’re still a second class citizen. And in fact, if you quietly shack up in a sweet little cottage in their neighborhood, you’re viewed as MORE dangerous than a Pride Parade Perv. How are they to explain to little Johnny and Susie why the nice guys down the street with all the flowers out front are evil pedophiliac perverts? Better to get rid of you all.

As a gay conservative I have felt the vitriol from both sides of the aisle but only one side curses me to hell, calls me a Nazi, and hopes I die to my face. There is no compassion for anyone with a free thought on the left.. The gay left is generally as bad as the Westboro Baptists who also happen to be democrats.

Do you honestly think that Bryan Fisher hasn’t called you a Nazi, that Pat Robertson hasn’t said you are going to Hell, and that the Republican base at Free Republic doesn’t wish you death? I have specific links for the first two, and you can wade in the Free Republic septic tank for one from there. Do you think the Concerned Women for America care that you’re conservative? Nope. They just tell everyone that you’re a pervert and a pedophile. Do you think that NOM cares if you’re conservative? Maybe, if you give them money so that Maggie Gallagher can have another slab of Cold Stone Brownie Fudge.

This isn’t really a matter of one’s personal experience as much as it is a matter of public record.

GP Ed. Note – Fred Phelps, kingpin of Westboro, was one of Al Gore’s confidants. There are many instances of this being documented. It’s called Google. Check it out.

I know what an “extreme” social conservative is coded to. A bigoted jerk. It is a guy on the right who name calls, ignores facts and won’t stick to the argument. Sort of like most liberals.

Edmund drops the “extreme” and goes for the jugular with this:

and the hate of a social conservative who thinks all gays should die in a fire before they go to Hell.

I would be interested to know where to go find these haters who want every single gay to die in a fire and then have their souls go to Hell.

That must be some incredible neighborhood Edmund has found. The invective is so over the top that it must be truly heart felt.

Lets look at the hysteria in Edmund’s blatherings in comments above:

FULL LEGAL PARITY is the goal, and reasonable people can disagree about how to get there or how long it should take.

FULL LEGAL PARITY is a bumper sticker cliché. It is like “hope and change.” Sure, we all know that gay marriage is the centerpiece, but if that were it, why dance around it? Because leftist gays also want legal recourse for what they consider discrimination against their lifestyle. Hate crimes, affirmative action, preferential reparations and all that. In fact, Edmund says as much:

I mean many – social conservatives, with their “Gentlemen’s Agreements” to fire gay people

This is a hit and run charge without so much as giving the finger as Edmund drives on to:

their constant vitriol, and attempts to stifle anti-bullying programs in public schools

Anti-bullying programs in schools are just the type of social engineering fiasco that elitists love in remaking society. They are just the tip of government reeducation programing. When Dan Savage puts his foul mouth out front in the name of anti-bullying expertise, perhaps we should all look at the research, curriculum and intent behind government led, funded and possibly mandated fundamental transformation by the government of our youth.

if you [gays] quietly shack up in a sweet little cottage in their neighborhood, you’re viewed as MORE dangerous than a Pride Parade Perv.

Such projection! Where DOES it come from?

How are they [the straights] to explain to little Johnny and Susie why the nice guys down the street with all the flowers out front are evil pedophiliac perverts?

“Evil pedophiliac perverts?” How did pedophilia get into this? Maybe Johnny and Susie want to know why Heather Has Two Mommies and How Hethrow’s Two Daddies Made Him. Kids suck at being politically correct, you know. Unless the state has a social engineering initiative to reprogram them.

Better to get rid of you all.

Oh, man. I got misled about finding peace in my old age sooner than later, but I sure smell the ovens of Auschwitz in this one. Oh, heck, maybe Edmund just means round them up and give them the lava flows of Eastern Nevada.

This Edmund is a true hater. I doubt he can be enticed into a reasoned debate. He apparently comes here to mock and bully. He is certainly not the first, but it is disappointing to see him strip himself naked like this.

I know that my opinions are not popular in the gay blog-reading community and that my views are not shared by more than a quarter to a third of those who identify as Gay or Lesbian. But lately the criticism has become very personal in nature and very hurtful.

I really need to have a brief period where I don’t log on every day to be subjected to personal abuse. Frankly, it’s getting to me. So I’m taking some time off.

* Grenell is just another self-hating gay deluding himself (and as many others as possible) into thinking the Rethuggist Party is the great gay hope of the LGBT community. Does he think we’re that stupid to believe their BS?

* as far as Im concerned this guy wrking for Romney is a TRAITOR!

* I’m convinced gay republicans are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome

* Ugh, he and GProud are just vile. Rich, usually white, fags who think; because they had a trust fund and went to college on daddy’s dime, being gay is a given and there’s no need to fight for anything. Pussies who have never had to fight for anything in their pampered little lives.

* Maybe he and Scott Lively will join forces and lead a discussion on Uganda when Romney delivers the commencement speech at Liberty University this spring.

From Towleroad on 4/20 – unlike Joemygod, Towelroad also had comments that were much more measured.

* Wouldn’t that be kind of like David Duke hiring a black spokesperson? A pig with lipstick is still a pig.

* F#ck him and every other gay republican.

* Another Quisling.

* Mikemick hit the nail on the head, the word of the day is “QUISLING”. Just a worthless piece of human garbage

Bilerico had no comments that were simply spewing hate

GoodAsYou only had one, kinda:

* Grenell’s just an unprincipled man looking for excuses.

At Pam’s House Blend it compounded like this:

* Tell me again why would a gay man be a republican?
* The wages and gratification from sucking the life force out of the masses.
* See also: Cohn, Roy and Beebe, Lucius.
* Nail + head.

Bruce, I don’t think your and my point contradict each other. I don’t go to JoeMyGod, but from some of the snippets I see here, it looks like it gets ugly. I don’t prefer to frequent blogs that get that uncivil. I’m certainly glad that things have toned down here quite a bit (and yes, I take on part of the blame for that).

However, you’ve stated something interesting here. You don’t believe Grenell was subjected to the same type of garbage that you and other gay conservative bloggers are subjected to. If that is true, and if Grenell did resign over the rhetoric, then he probably isn’t up for politics. Again, it does not excuse the hate-filled rhetoric from anyone, but unfortunately, politics, has been, still is, and will be a dirty game.

As to your last point, perhaps the commenters on JoeMyGod do represent mainstream gay activism. But, similarly to Cinesnatch, most of my friends and family members who are gay are more liberal than I am, and this is not what they believe or how they behave. Further, we aren’t Islamophiles, far from it, worship our former gov. McGreevey, etc.

There’s probably an articulable difference between the hate of a liberal gay who thinks of conservative gays as Quisling lapdogs and cannot understand the forfeiture of legal parity that you espouse and embrace

The anger comes from the perceived viewof leftygays that conservagays are entitled or apathetic: “I got mine, screw you.”

Wow, Edmund is dramatic.

Why is homosexuality more significant than other characteristics, like the morality or ideology one believes in? How am I, as a homosexual, intrinsically connected to all other homosexuals? I have nothing in common with most of them. Are you saying that who I happen to be sexually attracted to is so significant that I belong to some sort of “community” that is defined based solely on that characteristic? That does not make any sense to me whatsoever.

“(Fred) Phelps has run in various Kansas Democratic Party primaries five times, but has never won. These included races for governor in 1990, 1994, and 1998, receiving about 15 percent of the vote in 1998.[33] In the 1992 Democratic Party primary for U.S. Senate, Phelps received 31 percent of the vote.[34] Phelps ran for mayor of Topeka in 1993[35][36] and 1997.[37]”

And, I will say something similar to what I said in another thread: gays might not have full equality (whatever that means), but society isn’t fair to most people. Some people work hard their whole life, become successful and wealthy, and give other people employment. Other people are lazy and make terrible choices. And the way society is, the former is punished while the latter is given handouts (at the expense of the former). How is that fair, and why is that injustice less significant than the supposed injustice that gay people are subjected to?

Rattlesnake, recognizing the limitations of the forum, this is still interesting:

Some people work hard their whole life, become successful and wealthy, and give other people employment. Other people are lazy and make terrible choices. And the way society is, the former is punished while the latter is given handouts (at the expense of the former).

I could easily say the converse is also true, particularly with cronyism on both sides of asile in Congress and the Senate. But your real question seems to be:

Are you saying that who I happen to be sexually attracted to is so significant that I belong to some sort of “community” that is defined based solely on that characteristic? That does not make any sense to me whatsoever.

Most minorities who are discriminated against form groups in order to combat that discrimination. You eschew that, feeling that economics is more important, as is foriegn policy. I understand. This means that you can afford to avail yourself of certain legal protections for you and a “partner” and you can afford not to care if they rise to the federal level, and that the issue of DOMA as applied to foriegn spouses does not apply to you. Congratulations! However, most gay people do have concerns for gays whose circumstances are not identical to theirs and leave their brothers and sisters royally screwed.

@ 12, heliotrope? Gonna Fisk it just once, then ignore it until it jumps facefirst into the dustbin of history.

I would be interested to know where to go find these haters who want every single gay to die in a fire and then have their souls go to Hell.

Family Research Council. Concerned Women For America. NOM. One Million Moms. Pat Robertson. Free Republic. Everyone on SPLC’s homophobic hate group list.

FULL LEGAL PARITY is a bumper sticker cliché. It is like “hope and change.” Sure, we all know that gay marriage is the centerpiece, but if that were it, why dance around it? Because leftist gays also want legal recourse for what they consider discrimination against their lifestyle. Hate crimes, affirmative action, preferential reparations and all that…

No, it isn’t, you doddering dunderhead. As any gay person can tell you, it’s not a lifestyle, it’s a LIFE. That concept spans gays of all political leanings and backgrounds. I have never seen a single gay lobbying for “affirmative action “ or “preferential reparations” for gay people. I don’t even know what a preferential reparation for a gay would be – a lifetime supply of Benjamin Moore paint and a gift card to Nordstrom’s?

Anti-bullying programs in schools are just the type of social engineering fiasco that elitists love in remaking society. They are just the tip of government reeducation programing. (sic)

Then get in touch with any one of those kids bullied to death and tell them why you think that an anti bullying program is unnecessary “social engineering”, you jackanapes.

“Evil pedophiliac perverts?” How did pedophilia get into this? Maybe Johnny and Susie want to know why Heather Has Two Mommies and How Hethrow’s Two Daddies Made Him. Kids suck at being politically correct, you know. Unless the state has a social engineering initiative to reprogram them.

All of the organizations above link gay men to pedophilia. You did it yourself, helioclaptrap. And kids may suck at being politically correct, but they suck worse at being bigots until the right wing’s whores are done with them.

• I’ve been forced to explain homosexuality to my kids (aged 3 and 4) because their uncle is gay. This incredibly difficult and traumatic experience went as follows:
Child: Why does Uncle Bob go everywhere with Pete?
Me: Because they’re in love, just like Mummy and Daddy are.
Child: Oh. Can I have a biscuit?
We’re all scarred for life. Scarred, I tell you.

Oh, man. I got misled about finding peace in my old age sooner than later, but I sure smell the ovens of Auschwitz in this one. Oh, heck, maybe Edmund just means round them up and give them the lava flows of Eastern Nevada.

Godwin’s Law, look it up. Obviously, I was referring to what an anti-gay hater would say, not issuing my own opinion. But the lack of ability to parse a sentence is often first to go.

This Edmund is a true hater. I doubt he can be enticed into a reasoned debate. He apparently comes here to mock and bully. He is certainly not the first, but it is disappointing to see him strip himself naked like this. Can’t the left come up with anyone credible? Comment by heliotrope — May 4, 2012 @ 12:28 pm – May 4, 2012

I’m not a hater, except that I do hate when disingenuous creeps spew disinformation as you have done here. And you know what’s really disappointing? To see someone reach a ripe old age and be so blinded by fear and hate that they have to employ logical fallacies to make emotional points. To see someone cloak themselves as a straight man married for 50 years with “standing in the community” (which is kind of like what Stephen King would call being King Shit of Turd Mountain) so that he can spew hate. To see someone with a good vocabulary so blissfully ignorant of the anti-gay hate machine that targets all gay people.

This is not the same as some – and by some, I mean many – social conservatives, with their “Gentlemen’s Agreements” to fire gay people, and their constant vitriol, and attempts to stifle anti-bullying programs in public schools. Make no mistake – they do not care how deeply your conservatism runs and how much conviction you have about it. You’re still a second class citizen. And in fact, if you quietly shack up in a sweet little cottage in their neighborhood, you’re viewed as MORE dangerous than a Pride Parade Perv. How are they to explain to little Johnny and Susie why the nice guys down the street with all the flowers out front are evil pedophiliac perverts? Better to get rid of you all.

So, there is the distinction. I stand by it.

Sorry, Edmund, you raised the scent of Godwin’s inane Law. You are the one parading social conservatives as the keepers of the genocide flame.

In fact, you stand by it.

For the world’s smartest man, you sure do step in a lot of stuff that you have to scoff off as ignorance about punctuation, context, misdirection on the part of the reader —- namely me.

How come I have such inability understanding your unique genius?

I can not wait for your full ego show response. It should be better than watching flamingoes mate in a hail storm.

Standard written English isn’t my unique genius, but one which is available to anyone with the desire to study it. Keep at it.

NOM is a Roman Catholic front group. Here’s a quote from one of their rallies. At Sunday’s anti-gay marriage rally in New York City, sponsored by the National Organization For Marriage, one pastor, Rev. Ariel Torres Ortega of Radio Visión Cristiana, told the several thousand people in attendance that gays should die.

Heliotrope has never in all of his time here done anything of the sort; in fact, he has done the exact opposite.

You don’t have his credibility. Furthermore, the disgusting history of gay liberals like yourself toward people on this very blog shows wonderfully how you project onto him that which you most clearly practice yourself.

Thanks you for your links and showing us where you get your vitriol which you then project onto all of the “demons” you find inhabiting your conspiracy world.

This New Civil Rights Movement is out uncovering the enemy. Good on them. A little honest James O’Keefe work is valuable all the way around the political fringes and at the center, as well.

I invite everyone to meet this man of the cloth who condemns gays. Maybe, just maybe this fringe lunatic will get himself noticed like Father Pfleger and give the Pope another reason to direct the Holy See to go to work on this wayward priest’s delivery of church doctrine.

But I also notice that your source calls the priest’s group a front organization for the Catholic Church. Whew!

The Catholic Church opposes gay marriage loud and clear and does not have any need for a front organization to piddle out embellishments.

The New Civil Rights Movement uncovered a priest who needs to be brought to the attention of Cardinal Egan for overstepping the authority of his collar. You can contact the Cardinal yourself. His phone and fax numbers are readily available.

But to scratch around and find this guy and then present him as the spokesperson for the run-of-the-mill social conservative speaks volumes about you and your mission.

It matters not who you direct your “embolism” remark to, but your one degree of separation from projecting physical damage or even death on a stranger is not becoming to whatever “human” side you might like to nurture.

I am not disposed to get into rules of civility and go whining and crying around about other commenter’s temperaments. But, good grief, man your evil side is really nasty. Do you chug a quart of vinegar to get your day started?

It is always sad to see someone so consumed by self hate that he has to see anyone who disagrees with him reduced to an enemy is sad.

To see someone wish for death on their opposition then claim that it is the other side wishing for his death is projection of the worst order.

Aside,
I wonder how Edmund would answer this question. “Edmund has the same right of entering a partnership as any other male human American. He also has the privilege of having that contract recognized by the government, subject to the rules and requirements of his state of residence. How is this discriminatory?”

Or does Edmund agree with the 9th circus that once the government recognizes a ‘right’ it cannot be taken away?

My position is that I oppose gay marriage, but it’s really not an important issue for me. I don’t see how relationships need a form signed by a Government bureaucrat in order to be legitimate. I don’t see how much good a form signed by a Government bureaucrat is if the country is bankrupted and its economy is destroyed by gawdawful tax, regulatory, and spending policies.

Le sigh. But Democrats vote on culture, not policy, thus the need to demonize the opposition.

Aside,
I wonder how Edmund would answer this question. “Edmund has the same right of entering a partnership as any other male human American. He also has the privilege of having that contract recognized by the government, subject to the rules and requirements of his state of residence. How is this discriminatory?”

I’d start by pointing out that you’re a snotty asshole. And then I’d ask if you think it might be okay for a gay man to marry your daughter. That usually kicks your argument to the curb.

Wanna puke? Ask me about them. Kids, cats, hippies, moonbats. Car tailpipes, cons in stripes, lots of folks with lots of gripes. Girls, boys, old folks with toys, neighbors can hardly stand the noise. Gerbils, rodents, cans of soup, cell phones, Sharpies in their poop. The only group not present there was decent people with a mare.

Isn’t that coincidental? Paid puppet Michael Guest, who is a total slave to Barack Obama and does whatever Obama says, writes an editorial, it’s published in the Obama Party Pravda (aka WaPo), and talking-point shills for Obama like Richard R and Edmund start pushing it.

Pat, you suffered the bias of supporting someone who appeared to agree with you. No doubt Eddie has slithered back to GailyKos where he can brag of his martyrdom; being banned for “standing up to right wingnuts” and “Uncle Tom Faggots.”

I wonder if Rich Grennell shows up to dinner parties where he was never invited and desperately try to ingratiate himself to everyone. Obviously, that is what he has been doing. Rich – THEY DO NOT WANT YOU AND NEVER WILL ACCEPT OR WANT YOU! Either join the independents or become a conservative democrats. You will always be a fringe player at the gate. Even Romney didn’t go to bat for you and tell the haters off over the past month. Know who your friends are.

And this is what anthony and his fellow “friends” of Grenell are saying:

Timothy Kincaid

May 1st, 2012 | LINK

From Joemygod on 4/20 (just the first few, it goes on for pages)

* gay Republicans have the blood of dead teenagers on their hands.

* Grenell is just another self-hating gay deluding himself (and as many others as possible) into thinking the Rethuggist Party is the great gay hope of the LGBT community. Does he think we’re that stupid to believe their BS?

* as far as Im concerned this guy wrking for Romney is a TRAITOR!

* I’m convinced gay republicans are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome

* Ugh, he and GProud are just vile. Rich, usually white, fags who think; because they had a trust fund and went to college on daddy’s dime, being gay is a given and there’s no need to fight for anything. Pussies who have never had to fight for anything in their pampered little lives.

* Maybe he and Scott Lively will join forces and lead a discussion on Uganda when Romney delivers the commencement speech at Liberty University this spring.

From Towleroad on 4/20 – unlike Joemygod, Towelroad also had comments that were much more measured.

* Wouldn’t that be kind of like David Duke hiring a black spokesperson? A pig with lipstick is still a pig.

* F#ck him and every other gay republican.

* Another Quisling.

* Mikemick hit the nail on the head, the word of the day is “QUISLING”. Just a worthless piece of human garbage

Bilerico had no comments that were simply spewing hate

GoodAsYou only had one, kinda:

* Grenell’s just an unprincipled man looking for excuses.

At Pam’s House Blend it compounded like this:

* Tell me again why would a gay man be a republican?
* The wages and gratification from sucking the life force out of the masses.
* See also: Cohn, Roy and Beebe, Lucius.
* Nail + head.

Much of what Edmund wrote, I was unable to unwrap, unwind, sort out and understand. Here he is @ #4 above:

There’s probably an articulable difference between the hate of a liberal gay who thinks of conservative gays as Quisling lapdogs and cannot understand the forfeiture of legal parity that you espouse and embrace (and yet still wants you to have that parity) … and the hate of a social conservative who thinks all gays should die in a fire before they go to Hell.

First, this is not a sentence. Secondly, it lacks a clear subject or a balanced comparison in its implied simile exercise. It is just babble. But it sounds like the accidental babble of a complicated mind going too fast or something.

If you found “partial agreement” I suspect you thought that somehow you and Edmund might be on the same page about something. But you were not really sure, because Edmund was actually fairly incoherent in what he wrote.

The narcissist bully who believes he is the smartest man in the room is the one least likely to accept a challenge and clarify his meaning. That usually stems from the fact that he is blowing hard and has nothing to back it up.

As to Edmund’s unwinding, anyone who has been around the unstable person who gets more unstable from frustration, alcohol, drugs, paranoia or whatever has seen this all before. Edmund is consumed with demons of his mind and he got to batting at them letting everyone in on the show. (If I recall correctly, I believe your partner is in the personality disorder business. Chat it over with him. I am not making a diagnosis for lack of credentials, but my work with alcoholics, the homeless, disturbed students, mental patients in the hospital setting, repeat offenders and just people along the way give me reason to look twice at what unfolded on this site.)

I will pray for his soul and that he finds release from what haunts him. What little we got to know of him may be only the tip of what he is really like when he loses control. That is sad to contemplate.

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