posted at 1:21 pm on October 29, 2013 by Allahpundit

I wonder what his “solution” to the insurance industry’s developing adverse-selection problem will be.

“We knew that there would be some policies that would not qualify and therefore people would be required to get more extensive coverage,” Hoyer said in response to a question from National Review.

Asked by another reporter how repeated statements by Obama to the contrary weren’t “misleading,” Hoyer said “I don’t think the message was wrong. I think the message was accurate. It was not precise enough…[it] should have been caveated with – ‘assuming you have a policy that in fact does do what the bill is designed to do.’”

Hoyer noted that people losing access to their current plans are mostly in the individual market, which is a small segment of the overall market.

No, it’s not that Obama wasn’t “precise enough.” Go watch this clip, which I linked yesterday. He lied outright, unequivocally, for years — including during the first debate with Romney last October. Hoyer himself repeated the same lie, without qualification, back in 2009. Here’s the question, though: Did Hoyer know just how many policies wouldn’t qualify under ObamaCare? The takeaway from yesterday’s NBC scoop isn’t that they knew all along that “if you like your plan, you can keep your plan” was a scam. That was baked in the cake from the beginning; some people would have to lose their plans so that they could be forced onto the exchanges, where they’d pay more for coverage in the name of subsidizing the sick and poor. The takeaway is that HHS wrote the regulations to make that problem worse than it otherwise might have been, by stipulating that any material change made by an insurance company to one of its plans rendered that plan non-grandfathered under the law and therefore illegal. They maximized the hit on the middle class. Did Hoyer know they were going to do that? Does he care that they did? He’d better figure it out, because the more of an uproar there is over people getting dropped, the more Ron Johnson’s new bill will start to look good to red-state Democrats in the Senate. Passing it might make the adverse-selection problem worse, not better, but desperate incumbents like Pryor and Begich might not care. At the very least, the pressure on them to relax some of HHS’s regs disqualifying formerly grandfathered plans will only grow more intense.

Now that the country knows “if you like your plan” is a bald-faced lie repeated ad nauseam by Democrats for years, it’s time to shift the goalposts. Shift one: Yes, it’s true that some people will lose their plan and pay more next year, but they’re getting more comprehensive coverage in return and that kinda sorta justifies taking away their choice. By the same logic, I guess, it’d be okay to force people to sell their cars and buy new ones with better safety features because, after all, they’re getting a benefit from the extra expense, even if they can’t comfortably afford it. The difference between ObamaCare and the car example, though, is that the car-buyer really would be the intended beneficiary of that program. Not so with O-Care. The point of forcing healthy middle-class people into more expensive plans isn’t that they’ll avail themselves of the extra coverage but that they likely won’t, which leaves lots of extra cash for the insurance company to apply towards covering the preexisting conditions of others. Since it’s done in the name of virtue, though, it’s supposedly okay. At the very least, I’d like to think that the car hypothetical would be sold to the public honestly, not with some “if you like your sh*tbox, you can keep it” lie.

Shift two: Some lefties want to treat “if you like your plan” as water under the bridge, a talking point that might not have been technically true in all cases but which there’s no sense dwelling on now. We’re all in the quicksand together at this point; we can stand here and point fingers about who lied or we can try to pull ourselves out. Jonah Goldberg responds:

Indeed, what is so infuriating to many of us is that is that now that it’s the law of the land, Obamacare supporters act as if all of the lies were no big deal and no serious person believed them anyway. But as anyone can tell you, if Obama had been honest about the trade-offs in his signature piece of legislation, it would never have become his signature piece of legislation. So please, don’t tell me the lies don’t matter…

I fail to see why Republicans should simply accept that the law is here to stay and get into wonky discussions about how to improve it at the margins at the exact moment the wheels are coming off the bus. The president and the Democrats lied us into a bad law. The right opposed the law on principle. A single party — the Democrats — own this law in a way that no party has had complete ownership of any major social legislation in a century. They bought this legislation with deceit and the GOP said so. Now that it is going into effect, the facts on the ground are confirming that deceit. Moreover, the same haughty condescending bureaucrats and politicians who told us they were smart enough and tech-savvy enough to do just about anything are being exposed as incompetent political hacks. And this is the moment when Sargent thinks the GOP should simply throw in the towel and work with the Democrats to make Obamacare bipartisan?

It’s been said before that one of the big novelties of ObamaCare is that momentous, paradigm-shifting legislation typically doesn’t pass along strict party lines. Sometimes a robust bipartisan consensus forms in Congress, sometimes a less robust one does, but both parties to a greater or lesser degree buy in and go forward together in trying to make the law work. That didn’t happen this time. Democrats made a cold calculation: They had the numbers in Congress to do this and they were going to do it, even if that meant lying repeatedly to the public about the cost and consequences, even if it meant forfeiting a majority in the House for the next decade. This is what they wanted and now they’ve got it, and they can’t stand it. Enjoy.

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Ironic that high-deductible, catastrophic plans are precisely what young people should be buying in the first place. They are inexpensive because they provide coverage for unlikely, but expensive, events. Routine care is best paid for out-of-pocket by value conscious consumers.

‘Actually, ANY insurance that you currently have would be grandfathered in so you could keep it. So you could decide not to get in the exchange the better plan. I could keep my Acme Insurance, just a high deductible catastrophic plan. I would not be required to get the better one.’

I have mentioned this in a few threads but no one seems to be picking up on it…yet.

There is a bailout built right into Obamacare for insurers at least for the first three years.

Yup, not only will you be paying higher premiums for unnecessary mandates & services and likely crappier delivery, you will also be paying for a possible and likely bailout of the health insurers in the form of higher taxes.

Shift one: Yes, it’s true that some people will lose their plan and pay more next year, but they’re getting more comprehensive coverage in return and that kinda sorta justifies taking away their choice.

They generally are using the term “better coverage” instead of more comprehensive coverage. But even that’s a lie. How is forcing a 58-year-old widower for pediatric services more comprehensive than what he had before? That’s just forcing him to buy “stuff” he doesn’t need.

“Awww, come on Americans! YOU have to eat the turdburger we cooked up for you, but we will exempt ourselves and our staff members… cuz.. ya know – we’re better than you, and we don’t belong in those stinky exchanges… no how, no way.

And this ladies and gentlemen, is why I wasn’t hyperventilating during the shut-down, when some analysts were predicting the end of the Republican party. While that mess certainly wasn’t handled the way I would’ve liked, anyone with a modicum of wit saw Obamacare turning into a huge mess a mile away.

The idea that this wasn’t going to come back and bite the Democrats in the hindquarters, and that Democrats would get a years worth of mileage out of the shutdown, was laughable.

There’s an old saying I think a lot of people forget. All politics are local, and frankly you don’t get much more local than a persons wallet.

Shift two: Some lefties want to treat “if you like your plan” as water under the bridge, a talking point that might not have been technically true in all cases but which there’s no sense dwelling on now. We’re all in the quicksand together at this point; we can stand here and point fingers about who lied or we can try to pull ourselves out.

We all are not in the quicksand together at this point. Hoyer, Boehner, and the rest of Congress AND A GOOD DEAL OF THEIR STAFFS have exempted themselves from the law. We’re in the quicksand while Congress is on the edge cheerleading as we sink but providing no assistance whatsoever.

They generally are using the term “better coverage” instead of more comprehensive coverage. But even that’s a lie. How is forcing a 58-year-old widower for pediatric services more comprehensive than what he had before? That’s just forcing him to buy “stuff” he doesn’t need.

Happy Nomad on October 29, 2013 at 1:34 PM

Well you can rest easy knowing that Sandra Fluke has her free birth control. Right?

It’s been said before that one of the big novelties of ObamaCare is that momentous, paradigm-shifting legislation typically doesn’t pass along strict party lines. Sometimes a robust bipartisan consensus forms in Congress, sometimes a less robust one does, but both parties to a greater or lesser degree buy in and go forward together in trying to make the law work. That didn’t happen this time. Democrats made a cold calculation: They had the numbers in Congress to do this and they were going to do it, even if that meant lying repeatedly to the public about the cost and consequences, even if it meant forfeiting a majority in the House for the next decade. This is what they wanted and now they’ve got it, and they can’t stand it. Enjoy.

That’s what’s so unique politically about this debacle. There is literally no way for the Dems to blame anyone else for this. Oh sure, they’re trying to pin it on GOP governors who refused to set up state exchanges or the insurers who are dumping these plans(as if Obamacare regulations have nothing to do with it) or even the Americans who are losing their plans for having the gall to not want the super duper comprehensive government-mandated insurance that offers maternity coverage for dudes. But something tells me that’s not gonna fly. And just wait til the employer mandate finally goes into effect(assuming Obama doesn’t try to delay it forever). Then the sh-t really hits the fan.

On Saturday, August 8, 2009, during his Weekly Address, “The Smartest Guy in the Room” said,

…So, let me explain what reform will mean for you. And let me start by dispelling the outlandish rumors that reform will promote euthanasia, cut Medicaid, or bring about a government takeover of health care. That’s simply not true. This isn’t about putting government in charge of your health insurance; it’s about putting you in charge of your health insurance. Under the reforms we seek, if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan.

How is forcing a 58-year-old widower for pediatric services more comprehensive than what he had before? That’s just forcing him to buy “stuff” he doesn’t need.

What it is forcing him to buy is “stuff” other people need. And c’mon, now, at 58 and single, admit it, you can well afford to pay for others less able to buy “stuff” like birth control, maternity care, substance abuse treatment, and gender reassignment surgery, for themselves. Its only fair and just, docha know. Don’t be stingy.

Hoyer noted that people losing access to their current plans are mostly in the individual market, which is a small segment of the overall market.

Oh that is rich. The individual market is to Obamacare what WMDs were to the Iraq War–the heart and soul of the justification! The whole problem with healthcare, they said, was that people without employer-provided group plans either couldn’t or wouldn’t buy insurance, and therefore became “free riders” in hospital emergency rooms and/or went bankrupt when they got sick. Without the individual market, all of their justifications for Obamacare–flimsy and perfidious as they are–are rendered moot!

Not only are hundreds of thousands of individual plans being cancelled, but those with employer-sponsored insurance are about to get a huge shock when they learn of the contribution rates, deductibles and coinsurance they will pay next year.
Nothing is free, and in order to pay for the indigent, sick and those who refuse to work, others will see skyrocketing costs.
NO ONE will be keeping their current plan.

Hoyer noted that people losing access to their current plans are mostly in the individual market, which is a small segment of the overall market.

The employer mandate, by executive fiat, was pushed back 12 months, possibly to make the cancellations more manageable this year. It it were still in effect, the cancellations might be an uncontrollable tidal wave that would swamp the Democrats in the 2014 elections. It’s their way of metering out the bad consequences. Here’s hoping their strategy doesn’t work, or to quote a well known radio personality, “I hope they fail.”

Thats right, ObamaCar. Early designs call for a 4 wheel drive station wagon with 6 doors, floats, and an electric drivetrain. Automatic seatbelts, requires a minimum of 3 passengers in order to activate the motor, etc….

I wonder how many people LOST their insurance when Obama added the DEMAND of FREE contraceptives to every health insurance plan in the country?

Sandra Fluke is the poster child of this perversion for those people!

Freddy on October 29, 2013 at 1:45 PM

And I know this has been mentioned ad nausem, but nevermind the fact that you can get contraceptives WITHOUT insurance from Walmart for $4. Let’s save everyone $4 to $50 a month by making everyone spend hundreds more a month for insurance premiums. Yeah, that makes sense.

The employer mandate, by executive fiat, was pushed back 12 months, possibly to make the cancellations more manageable this year. It it were still in effect, the cancellations might be an uncontrollable tidal wave that would swamp the Democrats in the 2014 elections. It’s their way of metering out the bad consequences. Here’s hoping their strategy doesn’t work, or to quote a well known radio personality, “I hope they fail.”

stefano1 on October 29, 2013 at 1:54 PM

I get the feeling Obama will delay the employer mandate til 2016 and possibly beyond in order to mitigate any electoral damage to the Dems. Why would he allow it to go into effect at any point if it’s gonna cause tens of millions to lose their coverage?

I get the feeling Obama will delay the employer mandate til 2016 and possibly beyond in order to mitigate any electoral damage to the Dems. Why would he allow it to go into effect at any point if it’s gonna cause tens of millions to lose their coverage?

Doughboy on October 29, 2013 at 1:58 PM

I don’t. He’s never cared about anyone but himself. He’ll never triangulate. All he ever does is double down on stupid.

Technically they can’t defund it. Even Cruz knew that before the shutdown. At this point though they need to allow as much of it to be implemented as possible so the Dems have to own it.

Doughboy on October 29, 2013 at 1:48 PM

Bingo Doughboy. I say go 180 on this POS, no delays, and start holding hearings on all of these “exemptions”. Make them defend it.
I hate it for people that will and are really going to suffer from this disaster (like ME for example), but I’m afraid that is going to happen anyway. The only way to stop this is to get control of the Senate and/or Whitehouse, and that means making the Dems wear this POS.

I’ll say this for the Progressives they must figure that their efforts to intellectually anesthetize American society for the past century is all but complete. They’re pretty brazen now with their lying. I can’t believe that the citizens of this country would have accepted this level of mendacity even 20 years ago. Now they admit they’ve lied and I assume they do so because they figure there will be no repercussions. For some odd reason the public will accept statements from Pelosi that Obamacare will be a much more attractive option than the healthcare insurance we have been used to. Meanwhile in broad daylight she and her ilk exempt themselves and their staffs from it. It is stunning.

Some lefties want to treat “if you like your plan” as water under the bridge, a talking point that might not have been technically true in all cases but which there’s no sense dwelling on now.

Ha ha! I wouldn’t want to dwell on Obama’s BS if I were them either!
This cuts right to the core of O’s credibility.
Besides the die-hard Obamabots, who exactly is going to feel comfortable relying on anything else Obama says?

These are the pampered princes who believe not only they are the smartest in the room, but that their excrement smells like roses.

They embrace, accept, and embody one of the greatest lies ever foisted on mankind, that the ends justifies the means. A ‘good’ result is worthy of any task or step needed to achieve that result regardless of the intellectual, ethical, moral, or fiscal bankruptcy of the steps taken.

They stand against everything that we should stand for and believe in – specifically life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Their arrogance and contempt for ‘ordinary people’ is only matched by their mendacity – yet too many of us have become apathetic, lazy, and narcissistic to think beyond ‘free stuff’ that is unearned but we are somehow entitled to because of what, our social status? our race? our gender? or just because?

Their agenda is premised on abusing human nature in order to gain ‘support’, but ultimately fails because of human nature. Why push to succeed when one is rewarded for not pushing or taking risks and when one doesn’t have to succeed? Why achieve success when far too much of the reward is seized and redistributed to someone else who did nothing to earn it?

The only way we can ‘fix’ this is by voting – and encouraging others to vote as well. We have fight without air supremacy – they control much of academia so they indoctrinate more believers. They control the media so the indoctrination and propaganda continues. They control much of the judiciary so they can negate the effects of the votes of the people. And we have fight the apathy, greed, and ignorance of far too many fellow Americans.

I’ll say this for the Progressives they must figure that their efforts to intellectually anesthetize American society for the past century is all but complete. They’re pretty brazen now with their lying. I can’t believe that the citizens of this country would have accepted this level of mendacity even 20 years ago. Now they admit they’ve lied and I assume they do so because they figure there will be no repercussions. For some odd reason the public will accept statements from Pelosi that Obamacare will be a much more attractive option than the healthcare insurance we have been used to. Meanwhile in broad daylight she and her ilk exempt themselves and their staffs from it. It is stunning.

DaveDief on October 29, 2013 at 2:08 PM

That is because they have as much as 47% of the voting public in their side all the time no matter what… The majority of their voters are parasites either directly or indirectly depending on the producers taxes for their survival and they will vote for Satan himself as long as he is going to give the other people money… The question is do you consider the parasites citizens? or to rephrase it do you consider them “good citizens”? I do not… The biggest problem is that they are allowed to vote…

42% say their views lone up closely with the Obama administration. So half this country are liars and cheats. God help us. Can we please split the country in half? The conservatives in the south, the libs in the north?

Hoyer noted that people losing access to their current plans are mostly in the individual market, which is a small segment of the overall market.

I really think this needs to be brought into the light even more considering, right now, that the reason that it’s only the “individual market” that is being effected is because the most annointed one gave the other side of the coin, the “Employer Supplied” an exemptions from complying for the first year. When that expires the same results will be felt by “most” of the folks who get their insurance from an employer, which is a large segment of the overall market.

If this whole craptastic act is still in effect come next October, then all holy hell is going to rain down.

Yep, it’s gonna be interesting isn’t it? Maybe they delayed the employer mandate because they knew the application web site would be overwhelmed and not be able to handle the volume. Despite this they still have a disaster on their hands. Can you imagine what would be going on if the employer mandate had not been delayed and you had employers dropping healthcare beenfits and sending employees to the exchanges?

Did Hoyer know they were going to do that? Does he care that they did? He’d better figure it out, because the more of an uproar there is over people getting dropped, the more Ron Johnson’s new bill will start to look good to red-state Democrats in the Senate. Passing it might make the adverse-selection problem worse, not better, but desperate incumbents like Pryor and Begich might not care. At the very least, the pressure on them to relax some of HHS’s regs disqualifying formerly grandfathered plans will only grow more intense.

Hoyer probably doesn’t care, because he occupies a safe blue seat in MD, but a lot of Senate Democrats might start running for cover soon. Senator Johnson should write his bill so that ALL health insurance plans in effect as of March 2010 (when Obamacare passed) satisfy the individual mandate, regardless of what they covered, and allow an adjustment of premiums based on inflation since March 2010. If it doesn’t get 60 votes in the Senate now, it could get attached to a Continuing Resolution in January, giving Senators the option of voting for it or shutting down the government, and voters will probably THANK the Republicans this time!