Adama gets to transfer his flag to the Base Ship, Cavil has his hands on Hera but Boomer is having second thoughts, Helo and Athena are wrecks. Anders functions as a Hybrid?

Do you think that since all of those malfunctions were actually being caused by Anders that by Kara plugging him back in he will jump and screw over the abandonment of Galactica?

And eternal life being manifested in Kara? Wonder if Baltar is right. Baltar is an idiot for ruining the funeral like that though. Well I guess he was just trying to uplift spirits but still.

Kilharae

March 6th, 2009, 06:59 PM

Good episode, but they have very little time left to do a whole hell of a lot of explaining. Angels, Kara's resurrection, the opera house, the supernova, a resolution to the Cylon / human conflict, the song, Daniel, the scrolls that foretell everything.

Good luck BSG, I hope you can do it.

Pharaoh Atem

March 6th, 2009, 07:03 PM

Good episode, but they have very little time left to do a whole hell of a lot of explaining. Angels, Kara's resurrection, the opera house, the supernova, a resolution to the Cylon / human conflict, the song, Daniel, the scrolls that foretell everything.

Good luck BSG, I hope you can do it.

daniel will be delt with in caprica

ron has already said so in the podcast a while back

prattmic

March 6th, 2009, 07:04 PM

Good episode, but they have very little time left to do a whole hell of a lot of explaining. Angels, Kara's resurrection, the opera house, the supernova, a resolution to the Cylon / human conflict, the song, Daniel, the scrolls that foretell everything.

I have a feeling these next two episodes will be extremely packed, and while I hope they are awesome, they may have so much to tell us that there isn't much room to actually tell an interesting story.

Berg417448

March 6th, 2009, 07:05 PM

I don't think he's transferring his flag. Seems more like He's going on a one way mission to "send her out in style".

Skydiver

March 6th, 2009, 07:08 PM

i have a funny feeling that adama will send everyone away, but the few, then he'll jump galactica,t rying to find a home wiht his skeleton crew (you know, the actors in the credtis :) )

and they'll go on a scouting mission to find a new home, and send word back...and possibly take raptors down to the planet to wait for the others...and the final shot of hte show will be the primary actors standing on the surface of the planet looking up as galactica fireballs across the sky as she falls to her death

and there's 3 more hours coming
daylight pt 1 next week
parts 2 and 3 the week after

Finger13

March 6th, 2009, 07:11 PM

I don't think he's transferring his flag. Seems more like He's going on a one way mission to "send her out in style".

Edward Olmos has stated that Adama makes it to the end of the show, but that he's an absolute wreck.

I don't see him going on a suicide run with Roslin still alive, assuming that she dies.

Pharaoh Atem

March 6th, 2009, 07:12 PM

and there's 3 more hours coming
daylight pt 1 next week
parts 2 and 3 the week after

and i took both nights off from work :D

Pharaoh Atem

March 6th, 2009, 07:14 PM

i have a funny feeling that adama will send everyone away, but the few, then he'll jump galactica,t rying to find a home wiht his skeleton crew (you know, the actors in the credtis :) )

and they'll go on a scouting mission to find a new home, and send word back...and possibly take raptors down to the planet to wait for the others...and the final shot of hte show will be the primary actors standing on the surface of the planet looking up as galactica fireballs across the sky as she falls to her death

i think almost everyone will join in the mission JMO and i don't think there trying to find a new home i think their are going to try to save hera as she truly is important to the ending ......

she has to be.

Briangate78

March 6th, 2009, 07:18 PM

Just to let you folks know, there is no Daybreak Part 3. This is SCI FI's schedule..

I'll admit it, I was crying at the end. Almost as much as when SG-1 ended. What was with that Cylon-borg thing? And the old-style raider?

garhkal

March 6th, 2009, 07:47 PM

Wa.. next week is a rerun of this? WTF over!

Finger13

March 6th, 2009, 07:51 PM

Wa.. next week is a rerun of this? WTF over!

No, next week is Daybreak Part 1. This episode was Islanded in a Stream of Stars.

Then when the 2 hour finale plays, Daybreak Part 1 will play again before it.

daniel9

March 6th, 2009, 07:53 PM

Looks like Baltar is back to being a nutjob. And the fleet will probably see him as having a couple of screws loose at the end

Wa.. next week is a rerun of this? WTF over!

read the dates. the rerun is a week after next. it is the first part of the finale and then the 2nd half airs right after

ToasterOnFire

March 6th, 2009, 07:56 PM

Waitwaitwait, right before that eight died in the hospital bed did she quote "All Along the Watchtower"???

Berg417448

March 6th, 2009, 07:59 PM

Waitwaitwait, right before that eight died in the hospital bed did she quote "All Along the Watchtower"???

Yes. "Too much confusion".

Phenix

March 6th, 2009, 08:11 PM

I don't know. I like the episode. I don't like the episode.

Baltar is once again a tool. I think he tried to prove that he changed. The scene with Caprica 6 was powerful. Its a shame he decided to out Kara in front of the crew. I would have enjoyed a private outing among the main cast but then again I guess this is more dramatic.

Lee needs to get over Kara. I thought it was great that Dee was in the shot when she put her picture up. It was almost as if she was saying that that Kara is dead and that Lee needs to move on again.

I wish that Adama would stop drinking. He is a mess. I've losing respect for him as a strong character.

Tigh has become my favorite character. He seems to be the only one with a true moral core. He is who he is. I really enjoy his scenes.

In the end I think that they are blindly working their way towards the Opera House. Every scene with Caprica and Baltar is working towards their reunion. It was done haphazardly. Really a shame.

I hope they pull this off.

O and the quorum is full of idiots as usual. I would not have blinked an eye if Lee pulled out a gun and took a few people out. Yea, I can be a vindictive ass.

Chev's Ron

March 6th, 2009, 08:14 PM

I couldn't think of a better way to end the show than what I am seeing now. Well, maybe, but still, great episode!

Highlights:

Adama coming to terms with having to abandon Galactica.
Kara ****ting and Baltar Shaving, (reminds me of a sick joke I know),
Kara's Confession and it's fallout
The Six chewing the deckhand's ass then saving his life.
The Galactica Hybrid. (I like the sound of it better than Anders).
The visual shot of the old style raiders. At first I thought the humaniod models were using them for transport, but they already have the heavy raiders, so some of the origional cylon models must still be active. (reinforcing what six said in the mini-series and against what boomer said in Razor about the models being scraped).
B*tch boomer not being evil and sedating Hera.

Personally, I would like to see Adama transfer his flag over to the Baseship, but I think he will be with Galactica till the final episode. I am sure though they aren't bringing the fleet with them, so they must be leaving some marines and the baseship with the fleet. (possibly Laura Roslin also).

Looking forward to next weeks episode!

HAL2100

March 6th, 2009, 08:23 PM

i have a funny feeling that adama will send everyone away, but the few, then he'll jump galactica,t rying to find a home wiht his skeleton crew (you know, the actors in the credtis :) )

and they'll go on a scouting mission to find a new home, and send word back...and possibly take raptors down to the planet to wait for the others...and the final shot of hte show will be the primary actors standing on the surface of the planet looking up as galactica fireballs across the sky as she falls to her death

and there's 3 more hours coming
daylight pt 1 next week
parts 2 and 3 the week after

...everyone stranded on the planet looking up as the ship shoots across the sky in a fantasic blaze of glory as the old girl dies, has been done before - Star Trek III

Sue_Jackson

March 6th, 2009, 08:24 PM

Poor Galactica. Looks like she is dying. :( Guess it looks like Admiral Adama is gonna everyone to a Base Ship.

Am I the only one still confused about Kara. Okay.....so.....she NOT a Cylon. So....then how the frak did she come back from the frakkin dead? And.....what's with the connection with her and Hera and that song and Sam? Oh.....and now Sam's hooked up to Galactica just like a Hybrid on a Base Ship? Weird. :S

And....now that opera house dream is back to Laura.....Athena....and Caprica 6. Well.....it looks like part of that dream is coming true where Hera taken away from Athena by Cylons.

And.....I still don't know what to make of Baltar.

I hope all these come together in the next 2 weeks.

Oy. My head hurts. :tealcanime49:

HAL2100

March 6th, 2009, 08:25 PM

Can I get the details? I won't be able to watch until iTunes makes it available. My typical Friday night begging and groveling was delayed as I just saw Watchmen. Which BTW includes 'All Along the Watchtower"...

PG15

March 6th, 2009, 08:26 PM

Well, don't know if this is a good thing or not, but I have no clue how they're gonna end the series. At this point, I see no big goals that would wrap up the plot threads that could be pursued to end the show; maybe Hera's secrets can help that along, but what about a new home? Are they just going to discover an all new planet in the next 3 hours? Or are they just going to leave that thread danglin'?

Looks like they're definitely setting up a Grand Finale. Everything's been pretty damn slow since the mid-season premier, so I suppose it will all come together and end in a big bang in the next 3 episodes.

Hoping for an entertaining finish.

Oh, and doesn't Balter have some big destiny? Where are the writers going to go with him? His storyline in season 4 has been the least entertaining bit of it.

daniel9

March 6th, 2009, 08:32 PM

i liked baltar so much its saddening the writers are gonna turn him intoa trashheap

Espeon1962

March 6th, 2009, 09:12 PM

Well, I really like the episode, but for all of what happened, I can't say the overall plot was advanced much - I am trying to think of a single "big" question that was answered in this episode, and I think all we got was:

1) Boomer met up with Cavil and we got confirmation that the kidnapping of Hera was the real goal of Boomer returning Ellen to the fleet - Boomer played Galen

2) Galatica is on her last legs - they did say she might have 5 jumps left but that seemed optimistic

3) Starbuck is dead, but of course she is still alive

4) Sam is working on some level, but no idea how this advances the plot yet, although I dare speculate that he will operate the ship via the control interface at some point and time which will help saves everyone's collective derriers

Did I miss anything?

Following is info for Hal2100 but for anyone who has not seen episode, don't read as it contains lots of info
Hal2100 - some of the 6s and 8s put Sam in one of those bathtubs full of fluid that the hybrids who control the baseships lie in in attempt to help him heal, and they also attached Sam to the main power grid - later Sam came out of the coma when Kara was alone talking to him (she was about to put a bullet in his head and end his misery), and via the organic goop that has been used all over the ship, Sam was able to interface with Galactica's systems, but his conscious state was similar to the ship hybrids as well - he talked about ship control systems, started causing the Galactica to experience power fluctuations and other spontaneous events and also told Kara that she was the harbinger of death routine. They pulled the plug on him because of the interference he was causing to the ship systems and he is sitting in the goop. At the end of the episode Kara went to him with the notes of music and reconnected him to the power and said to him while he was unconcious that they are going to figure out the importance of the notes and song

My questions:

1) Caprica, Athena and Roselyn started having shared dreams again, what do we make of that?

2) What happened to the Chief? Never saw him at all, nor any mention?

I really liked the episode, but lots of things to be answered in the final 3 hours, should be a heck of a ride!!

Espeon1962

March 6th, 2009, 09:16 PM

I don't think he's transferring his flag. Seems more like He's going on a one way mission to "send her out in style".

Thats the impression I get as well, but I think Anders may end up being important as he might be able to help control the ship and hold it together. Only a guess.

Hey, did anybody get a preview of next week? None where I am.

Espeon1962

March 6th, 2009, 09:18 PM

i have a funny feeling that adama will send everyone away, but the few, then he'll jump galactica,t rying to find a home wiht his skeleton crew (you know, the actors in the credtis :) )

and they'll go on a scouting mission to find a new home, and send word back...and possibly take raptors down to the planet to wait for the others...and the final shot of hte show will be the primary actors standing on the surface of the planet looking up as galactica fireballs across the sky as she falls to her death

It would be a fitting end and tribute, I hope it comes true. I think though it will not just be a new home, but either the real "Earth" (I don't think the dead world they found was "Earth") and my best guess is Earth=Kobol unless I am terribly confused.

Espeon1962

March 6th, 2009, 09:22 PM

Oy. My head hurts.

I am with both of you on that one!!

It was an episode that I found totally arc driven, yet I don't think we really advanced much in the arc. It just set the stage, without answering many questions.

EvenstarSRV

March 6th, 2009, 09:30 PM

i think almost everyone will join in the mission JMO and i don't think there trying to find a new home i think their are going to try to save hera as she truly is important to the ending ......

she has to be.

I was thinking along the same lines. Mabye the musical notes Hera drew for Starbuck really are some kind of star map that gives them the coordinates of the Colony. Adama asks for volunteers to go with him, on what's essentially Galactica's final mission, to rescue Hera from Cavil.

What puzzled me was the reiteration of Kara being the harbinger of death that would lead them all to their end. When the hybrid said it I thought it referred to her leading them to Earth, but now she's no longer leading them anywhere....

Espeon1962

March 6th, 2009, 09:43 PM

Mabye the musical notes Hera drew for Starbuck really are some kind of star map that gives them the coordinates of the Colony. Adama asks for volunteers to go with him, on what's essentially Galactica's final mission, to rescue Hera from Cavil.

We have all speculated that the notes might be map co-ordinates, but I don't think they can be the map to Colony, particularly as when the 6 returned after the raider had scouted, she said Colony had been moved. I think the notes have to be a map to a world, not the cylon Colony and I still like my speculation that the notes are a map to Earth.

I know RDM has said they "found" earth. But I think he said that as one's "Earth" is a matter of perspective, so he was able to answer, confuse, and not tell the real truth all at the same time. Interestingly, Ellen has never said the dead planet was "Earth" or did I miss that?

retiredat44

March 6th, 2009, 11:03 PM

the last 3 hours better spain a lot of stuff, as it is now, the last few episodes pissed away lots of time,, and little to show for it..

:tealc:

Arative

March 6th, 2009, 11:51 PM

Sucks the old girl isn't going to make it. Interesting the Sam, when he was plugged into the ship knew about Starbuck. I guess the Hybrids on the ships are plugged into a larger stream of consciousness.

Did anyone catch the old school raiders on the basestar that Boomer landed on?
I expected Starbuck the punch Baltar, not slap him, she's turning into a wimp but it was funny as hell when she took a piss in front of him, compete with sound effects.

Olmas deserves an emmy many times over.

brthur

March 7th, 2009, 12:37 AM

daniel will be delt with in caprica

ron has already said so in the podcast a while back

I really, really wonder how he's going to do this without frakking up the timeline, lying to us or heavy, heavy retcon. Caprica is set before the twelve colonies build the first toaster, while the final five still on their STL journey from earth. They arrived during the war and then started building the skinjobs, of which Daniel was Number 7.

Now how can Daniel be dealt with in Caprica?

Alan Wake

March 7th, 2009, 01:13 AM

One thing I've learned from my short time watching BSG, basiclly every part of the ship is open for "relationships" ;)

Good episode... so that guy on the piano was her father? didn't see that coming.

I laughed when Tigh made his reaction to the music... it was just so funny and out of place.

gravityStar

March 7th, 2009, 01:50 AM

Wow. That scene with the Six pushing the deckhand through the airlock, swinging the airlock door shut and then yelling at him to lock it...

Perhaps the integration of crews on the basestar is going to work out.

And with Adama transferring his flag to the basestar, I'm wondering... Does she have a name? The basestar I mean.

I can't imagine Adama transferring his flag to a nameless ship. Come on, if it doesn't have a name already, he just has to name it, right?

My vote is for "Redeemer" ;)

hisg1fans

March 7th, 2009, 02:24 AM

I think Adama will take Galactica off 'somewhere' (don't know where) and those onboard will be the only remaining ones to live. Kind of like only 12 (or 13?) lived before.

Yes, I thought I heard All Along the Watch Tower words too. Just read the lyrics before the show. Need to rewatch to be sure.

Ten bucks says Boomer saves Hera. How many times has she switched sides now?

Kara could be leading them to their end, but I don't think the end has to be necessarily bad for everyone. It could be a good end for some, bad for others. The talk between Apollo and Kara seemed like a goodbye talk.

The cylon in the bathtub is still confusing for me. I never have been able to understand anything any of them have said.

It is nice to see people clean shaven and cleaned up again. Exciting stuff seems to happen when the characters are 'clean'.

Colonel Tighe has become one of my favorite characters too. He is just so spot on and cuts right to the heart of the matter. Good XO. Great acting.

Have to say, it's been pretty good acting all around the last few episodes.

Maybe the whole 'rebirth' idea is like when frogs change sex to reproduce if there are only females around. One of them turns into a male, so there can be reproduction and a continuation of the species. Maybe the 'cylons' are just an evolutionary mutation so the human species will continue to exist. Once there are enough humans again, the weird machine stuff is pushed aside.

I know, weird thought. But I'm so confused!!!

knowles2

March 7th, 2009, 02:29 AM

If it does I feel they will be changing the name to Galactica.

But if Galactica does not go out in a blaze of glory I will be disappointed.

As to epsode, all I really got to say talk about dragging the story out.

Through I like the new quorum, unlike the old group these guys seem to take decisions they relies the ship is dying and took the decisions to improve their own vessels. Which I like and which makes sense.

still do not like where they are going with Baltar and I am only who just wanted starbuck to pull a pistol and shot him between the eyes. He just plain annoying. I actually enjoy seeing him use skill in the lab again through. Wish we get more of that.

I really think they should left roslin die in the last episode through.

HAL2100

March 7th, 2009, 03:47 AM

Based on the discussion, I'm liking the idea that maybe there were some that managed to escape the war on Earth and found a new planet. If the Final Five had a ship, what's not to say that there were other ships out there? Naturally its also probable that there might have been Earth-Cylons on the ships in orbit for whatever reason and saw what was going down.

If any of that is true, I have the suspicion that they do find the new planet and surprisingly find it with Skin Jobs and Toasters living in peace. But only a handful from the rag tag fleet and rebel cylons make it there.

peragrin

March 7th, 2009, 03:59 AM

My thoughts.

I enjoyed the episode, and now I think I can see how the next three hours will play out.

The music is a star chart. oddly enough it is the same one used by the Final Five to find Kobol, and then the 12 colonies.

After seeing the cylon Colonyiod(it isn't a planet). I know Galactica's last mission. A blaze of glory ramming speed explosion right into the center of it. Destroying the bulk of the remaining cylons. One of each model except for Cavil will escape. Cavil will become the one who must not be named.

The final scene will either be of a group of people landing on the promised land of Kobol, or heading for Kobol. Now safe as the bulk of the cylons will have been destroyed.

There will be at least 2 cylon centurions around. One floating near earth and one floating near the colonies. To infect the next generation of centurion in ~2,000 years.

ToasterOnFire

March 7th, 2009, 06:09 AM

Great title, btw, probably one of my favorites.

Since they went to all that trouble to say that Anders probably has control of the FTL, I kept on expecting him to "JUMP!!!" during this ep, especially when Kara plugged him back in. And I think he might do just that in the last eps.

Hera's notes = map to a livable planet?

Hera did ram the Galactica into a basestar in that first scene, foreshadowing?

Baltar's storyline this season has been pretty disappointing for me too. His cult of bland personalities has been less than entertaining. Hoping he finally gets something more substantial coming up.

Espeon1962

March 7th, 2009, 07:02 AM

My thoughts.

I enjoyed the episode, and now I think I can see how the next three hours will play out.

The music is a star chart. oddly enough it is the same one used by the Final Five to find Kobol, and then the 12 colonies.

After seeing the cylon Colonyiod(it isn't a planet). I know Galactica's last mission. A blaze of glory ramming speed explosion right into the center of it. Destroying the bulk of the remaining cylons. One of each model except for Cavil will escape. Cavil will become the one who must not be named.

The final scene will either be of a group of people landing on the promised land of Kobol, or heading for Kobol. Now safe as the bulk of the cylons will have been destroyed.

There will be at least 2 cylon centurions around. One floating near earth and one floating near the colonies. To infect the next generation of centurion in ~2,000 years.

I like your thinking on this, but I do recall that when Boomer was talking to Hera in between jumps, she said "11 more jumps" to reach Colony. I know the big ships have a longer jump range, but it does not seem like Galactica could make it to the Colony location given how few jumps Galactica has left in it. As well, given the huge size of Colony and its defenses, I wonder if Galactica could even get close, and unless she could fly into the core and blow up - I don’t think even a surface impact would cause serious damage to Colony.

If it did pan out this way, then it does not seem like Galactica is the "dying leader leading the way…" in the prophecy. Oh well, we will find out!! Great theory

Afterthought - maybe the cylons jump Colony closer which helps bridge the jump gap - possibly on a ruse by the survivors and rebels. Or maybe Galen does something if he shows his face again?

RDAfan61

March 7th, 2009, 07:05 AM

I agree with a lot of what Toaster has said.

I'm betting that now that Kara has Anders plugged back in he is going to jump them somewhere whether it be where Hera is (which I still think is somehow likely, I mean Boomer found them why not vice versa) or to another suitable planet to colonize.

I too am wondering if Hera playing with the models is foreshadowing, otherwise, what's the point?

Baltar's storyline has been dissapointing but then again I have never cared much for him and don't miss him when he's not in the episodes. I think his stuff has always dragged.

I'm really liking Tighe. As someone else said, he is the only one who really seems to know who he is and has accepted it and moved on. I find it interesting how he still doesn't refer to Cylon's as his own. I like that he is remaining loyal to Adama who has been his friend and comrad for years and vice versa.

REALLY looking forward to seeing how they tie this all up. Have a feeling after next weeks ep we are going to be angsting for the week big time to see the end. :p

So sorry to see this show go though. Some of the best writing on TV ever.

knowles2

March 7th, 2009, 07:07 AM

I like your thinking on this, but I do recall that when Boomer was talking to Hera in between jumps, she said "11 more jumps" to reach Colony. I know the big ships have a longer jump range, but it does not seem like Galactica could make it to the Colony location given how few jumps Galactica has left in it. As well, given the huge size of Colony and its defenses, I wonder if Galactica could even get close, and unless she could fly into the core and blow up - I don’t think even a surface impact would cause serious damage to Colony.

If it did pan out this way, then it does not seem like Galactica is the "dying leader leading the way…" in the prophecy. Oh well, we will find out!! Great theory

She hinted that the journey would be much shorter if they had upgraded the jump drive with cylon technology.

We Galactica has been equip with the upgraded drives which means they could quite possible make it one or two jumps to the colony giving the ship three jumps back to a habitual world. That is also dependent of whether the chief was right and the ship has five jumps left in her.

Also the song could contain the jump coordinates if it does come with all the data neccesary to make a single ultra long jump. Was not it their computer compacity which limit their jump distance having all the data neccessary might mean they could jump a lot further. Through I do not think they would exactly trust the coordinates and I would not lissten to starbuck given what hybrids have in the past.

peragrin

March 7th, 2009, 07:30 AM

exactly Knowles. A raptor can't jump any where near the distance a battle star could before the jump engines were upgraded.

The seires needs to end with it being possible for everything to happen again. They say the book of pythia is 3,600 years old what if it is just that version. And it is based on stories told to the children, and their children for the centuries the 13 tribes lived on Kobol?

We all know how action packed some episodes are. with a little bit of everything happening all at once. Something tells me the sun will rise with a new dawn for everyone.

Arative

March 7th, 2009, 07:43 AM

Did anyone notice that Hera was playing on a Pegasus style planning room? Maybe Hera knows something more than she lets on

Longshot

March 7th, 2009, 07:49 AM

I think that the way that Boomer wrecked the old bird, by jumping too close to it, was foreshadowing for how Adama/Tigh will attack the Colony. Remember how Tigh said that if she jumps within the ship, she'll rip Galactica's guts out? Surely they'll use their last jump to destroy the Colony. Or at least, Hybrid Anders will.

Skydiver

March 7th, 2009, 10:00 AM

Just to let you folks know, there is no Daybreak Part 3. This is SCI FI's schedule..

when bsg is syndicated/re-ran it'll be daybreak 1, 2, 3 because they air in one hour blocks. There is a daybreak part 3, just like there's a Rising Part 2.....it'll just air the first time as a 2 hour movie, then get broken up

Kilharae

March 7th, 2009, 10:01 AM

I'm surprised no one is paying more attention to the visions of the Opera House. Since the end of season 1 Baltar has been having visions of himself and six with a baby. Now we know that baby can't be Caprica Six's child, it can't be Cally's child so it must be Hera. In the vision Athena and Roslin are chasing after hera. I think this is symbolic. They both have a stake in Hera. Roslin wants her for whatever religious / destiny reasons and Athena wants her because shes her daughter.

I don't think Balter will intentionally take Hera, I'm guessing he will wind up in a situation where hes forced to take care of her. Now the six in the vision could either be the angel Baltar has been seeing since the mini-series or Caprica six, I'm not sure which. But if I had to venture a guess I'd say it was the angel.

The one thing that needs to be explained at this point more than anything else are the angels, who they are and how they're able to do what they do I.E., predict and manipulate the future.

I liked the previous suggestion that asserted Boomer's jump close to the galactica and subsequent damage inflicted therein are foreshadowing to how the galactica will destroy the colony. Such a resolution strikes me as contrived, (Why haven't we seen anything earlier in the series about using jumps as weapons?) But acceptable.

I also think we need to start taking what the hybrids say seriously. They haven't played many word games with us, and everything they have said has come true. Kara Thrace will lead the Human race to its end. She will be directly responsible for the end of the human race either through destruction or some sort of breeding and mixing of genes. I know they've alluded to the ladder possibility but I don't think it will go down that way. This is Battlestar Galactica and it's not exactly a show about putting a smile on your face.

I predict the Galactica will destroy the colony, the remaining baystars of the colony will destroy the fleet, and some of the remaining people alive if not the only remaining people alive will be Baltar, Six, and Hera. They will settle on Kobold, the birth place of humanity, and the cycle will start again.

I think the most poingant ending to the show would be a failure to break the cycle, not a success. It would make a realistic statement about humans. As long as we're humans we will have failings.

I recall a line from the movie Invasion.

"A world without war, that is a world where humans cease being human."

Our evil defines us, our hope perpetuates the evil. It's a pretty cynical view but what is Battlestar Galactica if not cynical?

Espeon1962

March 7th, 2009, 10:29 AM

I predict the Galactica will destroy the colony, the remaining baystars of the colony will destroy the fleet, and some of the remaining people alive if not the only remaining people alive will be Baltar, Six, and Hera. They will settle on Kobold, the birth place of humanity, and the cycle will start again.

I think the most poingant ending to the show would be a failure to break the cycle, not a success. It would make a realistic statement about humans. As long as we're humans we will have failings.

The issue with Hera, Baltar and Six being the sole survivors would be for the cycle to restart who would Hera mate with in order to continue the propogation of the species? Baltar? If Six is real, could she and Baltar have a child? Could that child mate with Hera? Would be a very small gene pool.

Personally, I hope more survive then just these three, but the Opera House vision does not seem to portend better. And I would like the cycle to be broken, although maybe there could be unresolved matters providing potential for a sequel at some point.

The show writers and producers must be having a great laugh at our speculations!!

garhkal

March 7th, 2009, 11:08 AM

Am I the only one still confused about Kara. Okay.....so.....she NOT a Cylon. So....then how the frak did she come back from the frakkin dead? And.....what's with the connection with her and Hera and that song and Sam? Oh.....and now Sam's hooked up to Galactica just like a Hybrid on a Base Ship? Weird. :S

I have been wondering that myself. Why is laura still having those visions, and are they linked to the prophecy of the dying leader knowing the truth? Also which of the 6s is it in there?

And.....I still don't know what to make of Baltar.

Easy. He is a butt head!:cool:

Did anyone catch the old school raiders on the basestar that Boomer landed on?/quote]

Yup. And i got goose bumps when it showed.

[quote]Wow. That scene with the Six pushing the deckhand through the airlock, swinging the airlock door shut and then yelling at him to lock it...

Perhaps the integration of crews on the basestar is going to work out.

Especially since iirc that was the same six and human who almost had it out a little before.

Colonel Tighe has become one of my favorite characters too. He is just so spot on and cuts right to the heart of the matter. Good XO. Great acting.

I loved his speach to Ellen about him and Adama. Strange bedfelow those 2 make.

Through I like the new quorum, unlike the old group these guys seem to take decisions they relies the ship is dying and took the decisions to improve their own vessels. Which I like and which makes sense.

I actahlly hated that part. Talking of dismantling and scrapping stuff all before they even got the word Adama has changed his flagship.

Hera did ram the Galactica into a basestar in that first scene, foreshadowing?

Either that, or her remembering pegasus's going out.

[quote]Baltar's storyline has been dissapointing but then again I have never cared much for him and don't miss him when he's not in the episodes. I think his stuff has always dragged./quote]

True, but i did love the going back to his scientist roots, with kara's dogtags. And his talk of angles with head six watching in the side ground.

drake122

March 7th, 2009, 12:05 PM

Yet another episode about nothing... out of the 7 eps that aired in 2009, one or maybe 2 were interesting and intense.

The Shadow

March 7th, 2009, 12:28 PM

more questions just keep popping up in my mind everytime I watch a BSG ep, but I guess they want us to keep guessing in the end...

though I do have one big concern...
According to an interview with Jamie Bamber, he talked about how the last episode that there was not a dry eye in the house and how it is possible that more continuations of BSG movies could be made, but it is the end of the line for him.

So that makes me wonder....does Lee Adama die in the final episode? Will that be one of reasons why Bill Adama will be hearbroken by the end? Because his only son is dead?

I'm so excited to see the final episode though! The ending should be great!

Smashing Young Man

March 7th, 2009, 12:37 PM

Galactica's blaze-of-glory ending had best top the one the Pegasus had, which was pretty badass.

There must be some kind of way out of here
Said the joker to the thief
Theres too much confusion
I cant get no relief
Businessman they drink my wine
Plow men dig my earth
None will level on the line
Nobody of it is worth
Hey hey

No reason to get excited
The thief he kindly spoke
There are many here among us
Who feel that life is but a joke but uh
But you and I weve been through that
And this is not our fate (?)
So let us not talk falsely now
The hours getting late
Hey

Hey

All along the watchtower
Princes kept the view
While all the women came and went
Bare-foot servants to, but huh
Outside in the cold distance
A wild cat did growl
Two riders were approachin
And the wind began to howl
Hey
Oh
All along the watchtower
Hear you sing around the watch
Gotta beware gotta beware I will
Yeah
Ooh baby
All along the watchtower

HAL2100

March 7th, 2009, 02:28 PM

How was the Harbringer of Doom prophecy worded again? Did it explicitly say anything about the fleet, humanity, etc.? It occurred to me that it if its just 'she will lead 'them' to their doom' that 'them' could be anyone.

Berg417448

March 7th, 2009, 03:50 PM

How was the Harbringer of Doom prophecy worded again? Did it explicitly say anything about the fleet, humanity, etc.? It occurred to me that it if its just 'she will lead 'them' to their doom' that 'them' could be anyone.

This is the quote from the old hybrid:

" Kara Thrace will lead the human race to its end. She is the herald of the apocalypse, the harbinger of death. They must not follow her. "

wontgetfooledagain

March 7th, 2009, 04:51 PM

(Why haven't we seen anything earlier in the series about using jumps as weapons?)
I think that is because Boomer only did it because she had to. It seems like jumping so close to another ship like that is something you only do when you really don't have another choice about it.

I think the most poingant ending to the show would be a failure to break the cycle, not a success. It would make a realistic statement about humans. As long as we're humans we will have failings.
I would like it to end with the on a note such that it seems that the cycle has ended or at least that there is greater hope of the cycle being ended than before, but without one hundred percent certainty of that.

SoulReaver

March 7th, 2009, 05:17 PM

so Ellen's "escape" really was all part of a plan to kidnap Hera

anyone else find this kinda far-fetched ? (and that's a euphemism)
first of all there was no guarantee Boomer would even be able to get out of the brig in fact this was very highly unlikely as it all hinged on Galen's feelings for her
not to mention that even if he did aid her escape she'd also have to do so unnoticed
plus Galen would have to replace her with another 8 clone whom he'd have to KO & carry all the way to the brig - again without anyone noticing
(and no one saw any of the above just because the lights went out for a while ? gimme a break)
oh yeah not to mention Boomer barging into daycare & taking Hera away, carrying her from there to the fighter bay despite the risk of being spotted by Athena or Helo - but what the hell, why interrupt such an incredible streak of good luck http://img.infos-du-net.com/forum/icones/smilies/dawa.gif Athena just happened to stay out cold during the whole thing, though still conscious enough to notice Boomer getting it on with her man, but wait : not conscious enough to utter even a squeak (or maybe she didn't wanna disturb them ?)

and basically Cavil - allegedly the most "machine" and rational of all - sent her on a mission knowing this had a what, 1 in a million chance of success ? (or did the writers let him in on the outcome ?)

Zatnikitelman

March 7th, 2009, 05:29 PM

You know the whole dying leader prophecy thing? Someone on another forum mentioned this and I've thought about it and it all makes loads of sense. Galactica, the ship is the dying leader.
The show IS called "Battlestar Galactica" not "The ragtag fleet" or "Some colonials groping blindly through space" or even "Saga of a Star World." I think this was planned from the first time we hear of the prophecy (and before that of course). If they do discover a habitable planet to rebuild on, and Galactica's last stand is beating the crap outta that cylon thing in space, then "The Dying leader would not reach the promised land." (and this is all conjecture, no spoilers)

Pharaoh Atem

March 7th, 2009, 05:42 PM

You know the whole dying leader prophecy thing? Someone on another forum mentioned this and I've thought about it and it all makes loads of sense. Galactica, the ship is the dying leader.
The show IS called "Battlestar Galactica" not "The ragtag fleet" or "Some colonials groping blindly through space" or even "Saga of a Star World." I think this was planned from the first time we hear of the prophecy (and before that of course). If they do discover a habitable planet to rebuild on, and Galactica's last stand is beating the crap outta that cylon thing in space, then "The Dying leader would not reach the promised land." (and this is all conjecture, no spoilers)

the scifi forum has accepted this as the truth that galactica is the dying leader this cycle and it's a theory i also accept :cool:

SoulReaver

March 7th, 2009, 05:46 PM

then that makes 2 dying leaders :/

HAL2100

March 7th, 2009, 05:51 PM

This is the quote from the old hybrid:

" Kara Thrace will lead the human race to its end. She is the herald of the apocalypse, the harbinger of death. They must not follow her. "

Gotcha - but I might point out that 'leading the human race to its end' does not exclude the possibility that the human race could end by interbreeding with the Cylons leaving only Human-Cylon hybrids. The bit about 'they must not follow' could refer to the dilution and eventual lost of human culture.

RDAfan61

March 7th, 2009, 06:21 PM

The issue with Hera, Baltar and Six being the sole survivors would be for the cycle to restart who would Hera mate with in order to continue the propogation of the species? Baltar? !!

Oh, that is just EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!

madk99

March 7th, 2009, 06:45 PM

Does anyone know anyplace to view/obtain this ep. I've not seen it and dont have it recorded,nor does anyone I know. Skiffy wont post it for viewing until 8 days after.

It's tough to post in here w/out reading the thread. but I don't wanna read until I watch it !!

Brilliant ideas?? people??

Berg417448

March 7th, 2009, 06:55 PM

If you know someone with Comcast On Demand they have the BSG episodes on there.

Arative

March 7th, 2009, 07:46 PM

Was the planet that Cavil's ship by suppose to Jupiter?

wontgetfooledagain

March 7th, 2009, 08:20 PM

anyone else find this kinda far-fetched ? (and that's a euphemism)
first of all there was no guarantee Boomer would even be able to get out of the brig in fact this was very highly unlikely as it all hinged on Galen's feelings for her
not to mention that even if he did aid her escape she'd also have to do so unnoticed
plus Galen would have to replace her with another 8 clone whom he'd have to KO & carry all the way to the brig - again without anyone noticing
(and no one saw any of the above just because the lights went out for a while ? gimme a break)
oh yeah not to mention Boomer barging into daycare & taking Hera away, carrying her from there to the fighter bay despite the risk of being spotted by Athena or Helo - but what the hell, why interrupt such an incredible streak of good luck http://img.infos-du-net.com/forum/icones/smilies/dawa.gif Athena just happened to stay out cold during the whole thing, though still conscious enough to notice Boomer getting it on with her man, but wait : not conscious enough to utter even a squeak (or maybe she didn't wanna disturb them ?)
It is a bit far fetched, but to my knowledge, Cavil's plan didn't rest on Boomer getting sent to the brig -- it simply rested on Boomer not being executed when she arrived at Galactica. Cavil might have even assumed that Boomer wouldn't get sent to the brig, though that may be even more optimistic of him. Even then, I'm sure that Cavil's reasoning that trying that was better than trying nothing at all.

ArthurKing

March 7th, 2009, 09:00 PM

Note to Mods, my post was inspired by my viewing of Islanded in a Stream of Stars, but the point of the post really went beyond the specific episode. I'm reposting in the main forum with a more general title to better reflect this fact.

Thanks,
AK

NB: At your discretion, please feel free to delete the original thread that was changed over to 'moved' status

Back40

March 7th, 2009, 09:21 PM

6. And finally, this episode made me realize how much I'm going to miss having this on television. There's absolutely nothing else like it. Nothing. What has distinguished Galactica for me, more than anything else, has been the fact that it's one of those rare shows that uncompromisingly respects the intelligence of its viewers. Uncompromisingly--not with a wink of the eye, or only on occasion, but insistently. Moore has fashioned a vehicle that presents life in its complexity and I think that that complexity--and that unerring willingness to confront it in an authentic and thus intelligent manner--has been a primary cause of this show's 'greatness.'

Stepping back to look unto the abyss that is modern network (or cable or internet) television, I just don't see anything like it, science fiction or otherwise. And the prospect of losing our window onto such a vivid piece of 'imagined life' is a pretty hard pill to swallow.

Very well said, and I'm sure echoed by many others, myself included. I have absolutely no idea what I'm going to be watching after the 20th of March as this is the only program that I have followed over the last 5 years. Back to occasionally tuning in to the "fluff" that is regular television when I have nothing better to do, I guess...

TheChosen1

March 7th, 2009, 09:37 PM

If anything after this great series is over with. We should pause for a moment and reflect on what we have witnessed these past 5 years. The show has meant a lot to us. It has hit a chord in us many times and we can understand what's happening, we can even relate to it. Making it that much more real for us and at the same time entertaining in the fact we want to keep watching more to see the out come of it all. We have grown attached to certain characters and object's within the show. All in all as we reflect and ponder with-in ourselves I would think we can take away some valuable lessons about ourselves as a person, as a people and as a civilization.

This show has been very thought provoking and everything that has happened in this show on some scale and in some respect's has happened before with our humanity and shall happen again. The cycle of control, manipulation and violence to what end? I think by the time this series is over with, people will be hit with the reality that this is just but a slice of the human experience and peer's into what is , what might be and what can be.

Choice and free will to make , to create and to destroy. All the technology in the world won't save us from ourselves or even our own creations. Only we can do that. If we don't the cycle just continues on repeating itself and a vicious one it is.

TheChosen1

TheChosen1

March 7th, 2009, 09:43 PM

You know the whole dying leader prophecy thing? Someone on another forum mentioned this and I've thought about it and it all makes loads of sense. Galactica, the ship is the dying leader.
The show IS called "Battlestar Galactica" not "The ragtag fleet" or "Some colonials groping blindly through space" or even "Saga of a Star World." I think this was planned from the first time we hear of the prophecy (and before that of course). If they do discover a habitable planet to rebuild on, and Galactica's last stand is beating the crap outta that cylon thing in space, then "The Dying leader would not reach the promised land." (and this is all conjecture, no spoilers)

That has been hashed out here too as well about, galactica being the dying leader.

TheChosen1

Hairy_Little_Muffin

March 7th, 2009, 09:51 PM

Okay this episode seemed an utter dissapointment. I mean I could have missed it for work hands down.

I really thought this would have been the episode to explain it all. Or at least I read somewhere it was supposed to be. I mean didn't they say it was to be so complex that Ron Moore actually had to sit and break it down to Tricia Helfer?

Did I miss something. Did I fall asleep and dream up an episode that should have been in season three it was so boring?

Hairy_Little_Muffin

March 7th, 2009, 10:00 PM

Wow, didn't see this thread before I made mine.
I thought the episode fit in well even though wasn't as on the edge of my seat as I'd hoped to be. I was just kind of dissapointed. I expected a little more right before the series finale. But the more I sit back and look at its kind of a pregame-pregame to the series finale.

Maybe I need to just look at it for what it really is and not just the space battles and cools explosions and robots. :)

HAL2100

March 8th, 2009, 04:14 AM

Does anyone know anyplace to view/obtain this ep. I've not seen it and dont have it recorded,nor does anyone I know. Skiffy wont post it for viewing until 8 days after.

It's tough to post in here w/out reading the thread. but I don't wanna read until I watch it !!

Brilliant ideas?? people??

Google 'List of Battlestar Galactica episodes' on wikipedia.org for a detailed synopsis. Other than that Hulu.com or iTunes (both officially sanctioned)...or just check out the guy on the street corner with the trench coat. He'll have DVD's of the ep in his right pocket and Genuine Rolex's for $25 in his left.

HAL2100

March 8th, 2009, 04:25 AM

(Not entirely off subject...)

I honestly couldn't resist...

Hera has grown up as in now in her teenage years...
Hera: [after killing Helo and in disarray] What have I done?
Cavill: You are fulfilling your destiny, Hera. Become my apprentice. Learn to use the dark side of the Force. There's no turning back now.
Hera: I will do whatever you ask. Just help me save my mother. I can't live without her. If she dies, I don't know what I will do.
Cavill: To cheat death is a power only the Final Five have achieved. But if we work together, I know we can discover the secret to eternal life
Hera: I pledge myself to your teachings. To the ways of the Cylon.
Cavill: Good. Good! The Force is strong with you, Hera. A powerful Cylon you will become. Henceforth, you shall be known as Number...13.
Hera: Thank you... my Master.

Mongoletsi

March 8th, 2009, 07:17 AM

I was truly let down by this poor, poor episode.

1. Anders as a Hybrid? Impossible given that the FF are biologically "human" as far as we know, and certainly that's what we've been told.
2. The "cylon goo" has "networked" the ship? Cliche ahoy!
3. Why would Starbuck shoot him? Emo rubbishness.
4. Adama "painting" the wall, crying, etc. More Emo rubbishness.

Many more things wrong with this episode for me. It was just a bit too, well, EMO for me. Too much space-opera angst. Not enough progress.

It's my least favourite episode for a long time :(

Mongoletsi

March 8th, 2009, 07:20 AM

Did I miss something. Did I fall asleep and dream up an episode that should have been in season three it was so boring?

Exactly! S3 pretentious filler fodder!

Mongoletsi

March 8th, 2009, 07:27 AM

I have absolutely no idea what I'm going to be watching after the 20th of March as this is the only program that I have followed over the last 5 years.

I'm 100% with you on that. It's the only thing (apart from footy) which I make an effort to watch.

Pharaoh Atem

March 8th, 2009, 07:28 AM

If you know someone with Comcast On Demand they have the BSG episodes on there.

:cameron: yes their do only a few hours after it airs and you get to keep it for a month :D

SoulReaver

March 8th, 2009, 07:39 AM

It is a bit far fetched, but to my knowledge, Cavil's plan didn't rest on Boomer getting sent to the brig -- it simply rested on Boomer not being executed when she arrived at Galactica.how would a locked up Boomer have helped him ? if anything she could've been a source of intel to the enemy

SoulReaver

March 8th, 2009, 07:59 AM

Every scene with Caprica and Baltar is working towards their reunion. oh ? :tealcanime49:

s09119

March 8th, 2009, 08:50 AM

I was truly let down by this poor, poor episode.

1. Anders as a Hybrid? Impossible given that the FF are biologically "human" as far as we know, and certainly that's what we've been told.
2. The "cylon goo" has "networked" the ship? Cliche ahoy!
3. Why would Starbuck shoot him? Emo rubbishness.
4. Adama "painting" the wall, crying, etc. More Emo rubbishness.

Many more things wrong with this episode for me. It was just a bit too, well, EMO for me. Too much space-opera angst. Not enough progress.

It's my least favourite episode for a long time :(

1. He's still a Cylon, so I see no reason why it wouldn't work.
2. ...why? The goo is a synthetic machine, basically, and it's what the basestars are made out of. The basestars are networked, right? So where's the problem?
3. Because she doesn't want to see her husband be turned into a tool or little more than a talking toaster for the rest of his life.
4. The man's about to lose one of few things he has left to him, and he loves Galactica far more than he ever did Roslin, Lee, or Starbuck.

Espeon1962

March 8th, 2009, 09:44 AM

I just re-watched the episode, and I think I came away with a less positive impression overall, simply as so little was accomplished. It really came across overall as filler material, notwithstanding the fact there was some fine individual moments - Kara and Apollo in the hall of lost friends, the opening scenes and disaster in the repairs, Saul and Adama in his quarters near the end of the episode and a few others. But a lot of it seemed to be just plain drivel such as all the time in sick bay between Roselyn and Adama, whereas what the hell happened to the Chief? And really, Helo groveling like that?

There has been very little use of many characters lately:

Apollo has been but an afterthought
the other pilots don't exist
the rebel cylons seem to be mere workforce fodder
mutineers in jail with no resolution of their fate
Tory is just a head shot every now and then and so apparently an insignificant member of the Five

and so on. I hope the final 3 hours are less seat of the pants then some of the last 3 hours.

S4.5 got off with such a bang. When Dee committed suicide, it appeared in that episode that we were going to see some nice deliberate well thought out pacing and indeed the next few episodes to the Ellen Cavil confrontation on the baseship I thought were all relatively strong - but the latest 3 really could, if not been condensed to 2, then could have been more inclusive of other characters to round out matters, or more revealing to bring together all the plot threads. As it is, there are a lot of loose ends to be tied up in a short period of time, unless the plan is simply to kill everyone off, in which case I will be very disappointed.

I love this show, but like all, it has its moments of endless frustration.

blazertrek50

March 8th, 2009, 10:49 AM

Season's one and two were the most intriguing television that I have ever beheld. At the time I said to my friends that Battlestar Galactica was the best TV series ever, IMO. Season 3 killed that. Season 4 was better than 3 but still not as amazing as one and two. Then season 4.5 came and I believed that the magic had been captured again, until the past three episodes. I am hoping that the magic will be captured again for these final 3 hours, however I am skeptical. I told my son, who watches the show with me that after the second episode of the "mutiny" that we had just watched the final great episodes of BSG. So far it seems as if I was right.
I will definietly miss this show, but not as much as I once would have....

fwupow

March 8th, 2009, 01:44 PM

What I think we learned from this episode:

1. Kara Thrace's father definitely knew and played the Final Five head music to Kara when she was a child.

2. The Cylons have no homeworld, but have instead spent the intervening years between the wars living on a mobile spaceshipamathingy/hive/nest that they built for themselves and refer to as "The Colony".

3. Cavil actually has plans for Hera other than simple Final Five Bait.
After sitting Hera down on a bench, he said "There, there now. You'll have all sorts of new playmates pretty soon."

IMO, this is the most significant line in the episode and what can we make of it?

Is Cavil going to introduce Hera as a new Model #13?

Imagine how upsetting Athena will find it if she discovers that there are now thousands or tens of thousands of copies of her daughter that are indistinguishable from the true original!

At this late stage in the series, I, for some reason find it frustrating, that the writers are still opening up new mysteries

garhkal

March 8th, 2009, 01:44 PM

4. Adama "painting" the wall, crying, etc. More Emo rubbishness.

I have seen several friends who were severly distressed do that as well... so it was not outlandish to me.

fwupow

March 8th, 2009, 01:57 PM

I have seen several friends who were severly distressed do that as well... so it was not outlandish to me.

My only disappointment with that scene is that Adama did not adhere to the tradition of smashing a model ship like he did in so many of his previous emotional breakdowns.

I really miss the model ship smashing. Somehow, throwing a paint tray against the wall just doesn't represent the same value as destroying something that you've invested hundreds of hours over a period of months, maybe years in tediously constructing.

Galactica deserves the smashing of, at least, one model ship. I suppose that when Adama thinks about how he doesn't even have one ready to smash, it makes him go for the bottle even harder.

I'm thinking seriously about building my own model ship, just so I'll be ready for when my own inevitable emotional crises strikes. It's better to have one and not need it than to need it and not have it!

fwupow

March 8th, 2009, 02:16 PM

In regard to Cavil replicating Hera; I wonder if the writers made a conscious choice to take the Athena character, which everybody always feels sorry for because she's just so insanely cute looking, and emotionally torture her to the most extreme extent possible.

If that's the case, we shouldn't expect Helo to be around much longer.

Briangate78

March 8th, 2009, 07:48 PM

Yet another episode about nothing... out of the 7 eps that aired in 2009, one or maybe 2 were interesting and intense.

Yeah I have been kinda disappointing with some of the last several eps. There have been some great ones, but this one was just dragging.

so Ellen's "escape" really was all part of a plan to kidnap Hera

Didn't see that one coming. :p pretty predictable.

SoulReaver

March 8th, 2009, 08:07 PM

Didn't see that one coming. :p pretty predictable.oh it did cross m mind back in the ep when she "escaped" but then I just as quickly discarded that possibility given the odds of success of such a plan - on the assumption that the writers wouldn't stretch suspension of disbelief that far. evidently I was wrong http://img.presence-pc.com/forum/images/perso/skylight.gif

fwupow

March 8th, 2009, 08:57 PM

Oh, that is just EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!

Hera would mate with the son of Baltar and Six!

EvenstarSRV

March 8th, 2009, 09:01 PM

My only disappointment with that scene is that Adama did not adhere to the tradition of smashing a model ship like he did in so many of his previous emotional breakdowns.

I really miss the model ship smashing. Somehow, throwing a paint tray against the wall just doesn't represent the same value as destroying something that you've invested hundreds of hours over a period of months, maybe years in tediously constructing.

Galactica deserves the smashing of, at least, one model ship. I suppose that when Adama thinks about how he doesn't even have one ready to smash, it makes him go for the bottle even harder.

I saw the paint scene as Adama finally realizing that his attempts to repair Galactica were just like him trying to cover up rotting walls with fresh paint, he's not fixing the problem he's just trying to hide it. I don't think seeing him smash a ship model would have conveyed quite the same message.

Though I think we'll get to see Adama smash his ship for real in the next episodes. :)

wontgetfooledagain

March 8th, 2009, 09:08 PM

Though I think we'll get to see Adama smash his ship for real in the next episodes. :)
All previous ship smashings were just practice. The models -- practice. The Pegasus -- practice. The Adama Maneuver -- practice. I hope, anyway. I want this series to go out with a bang.

fwupow

March 8th, 2009, 09:26 PM

the scifi forum has accepted this as the truth that galactica is the dying leader this cycle and it's a theory i also accept :cool:

This is another one of those off-the-cuff interpretations of prophecy based on partial quotes taken out of context.

The words "dying leader" are taken from Pythian prophecy and Hybrid ramblings and scriptural interpretations by Elosha and Laura Roslin and others.

Direct quote of scripture by Elosha:
"And the Lords anointed a leader to guide the caravan of the heavens to their new homeland. And unto the leader, they gave a vision of serpents, numbering two and ten, as a sign of things to come."

Can Galactica experience visions?

Elosha: She also wrote that the new leader suffered a wasting disease and would not live to enter the new land. (The Hand of God)

Roslin: The scriptures tell us a dying leader lead humanity to the promised land. (Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I)

The other "Dying Leader" prophecy comes from the Hybrid aboard the Rebel Baseship in Season 4 ep-6 "FAITH":

"Thus will it come to pass. The dying leader will know the truth of the Opera House. The missing Three will give you the five who have come from the home of the 13th. You are the Harbinger of death, Kara Thrace! You will lead them all to their end.
End of line. "

Can a ship like Galactica interpret a vision and "know the truth of the Opera House"?

I don't see how anyone familiar with the entire BSG series to date, can regard Galactica as THE dying leader of prophecy, except if you postulate that there is more than one "dying leader".

fwupow

March 8th, 2009, 09:33 PM

Season 4 ep-8 "THE HUB"

BALTAR TO ROSLIN:
"I know God, therefore I know myself, which is why I can promise you, Laura, I will protect that child. Six told me that was our child. Her's and mine. I was the real father. Maybe I am. Maybe I am. Maybe if her real father is that leader, prophet..."

So what is Baltar gonna do now?

and is he going to require the services of his well-armed harem?

fwupow

March 8th, 2009, 09:46 PM

Though I think we'll get to see Adama smash his ship for real in the next episodes. :)

Most of what I said was tongue-in-cheek. I imagined a funny comedy sketch where Bill Adama has a dream of being in the CIC and everyone is accusing him of being a Cylon 'til he goes berserk and starts smashing model sailing ships over everybody's head and yelling "I AM NOT A CYLON!". He just reaches his hands up over his head or behind his back and model ships magically appear in them. First the single ship, two-handed, overhead smashdown, then the ship-in-each-hand cymbal clash to both sides of the face followed by the single-ship-backhand etc..

Oh lord, I would definitely soil myself laughing at that comedy sketch!

Seriously, I do expect that Galactica will go out with a bang or fireball, but only after being stripped clean of useful parts.

We might see Galactica with all nukes armed, used as a torpedo to take out the colony.

The more I think about this, the more sense it makes.

1. We know that the Cylon Raiders refused to make war against the fleet when they detected that Viper Pilot Anders was a Cylon.

2. In the very first scene of this episode in what appears to be part of one of Roslin's and Caprica's Opera House visions, Hera is seen sitting on the map table in Galactica's CIC. She pushes a model of Galactica past a few Cylon Raider models and into a Cylon Baseship.

3. Galactica's framework is now infused with "Cylon Goo" which according to Chief Tyrol is "alive".

4. The producers seem to enjoy doling out brief and ambiguous foreglimpses of things to come. The Cylon Baseship that Hera rams Galactica into could easily turn out to be "The Colony" ship. After all, there would be no model of The Colony available in the CIC for Hera to enact prophecy with.

5. Cavil currently knows nothing about the Cylon Goo in Galactica's skeleton. Boomer wouldn't likely think to tell him of it.

6. The "alive" Cylon Goo might allow an empty, unmanned Galactica to fly right up the gut of Cavil's Colony without his Raiders being able to do anything about it due to the fail-safes coded into their programming which prevent them from attacking ANY Cylon life including the Cylon Goo.

7. Galactica still has plenty of nuclear missiles onboard and an unknown quantity of suitcase nukes which could be rigged for remote or timed detonation.

Yeah, I think we're going to see a heroic retrieval of Hera and the resurrection technology from The Colony followed by the destruction of it by an unmanned Galactica with Cavil hollering his lungs out at his "worthless, disobedient Raiders" or something pretty near not even half resembling that scenario in a dissimilar sort of way.

fwupow

March 8th, 2009, 11:39 PM

Has anyone noticed how the stage is being set for a resumption of a Baltar and Six relationship?

1. We have not even once seen Saul Tigh with Caprica Six since the miscarriage of Liam.

2. We have repeatedly seen Saul and Ellen together.

3. Caprica Six is a changed person by her own words and by what we've been observing since she helped Athena rescue Hera.

4. Gaius Baltar seems to be in the process of changing--becoming more selfless--discovering the joys of giving etc.

5. In this very episode we saw the following scene:

Baltar:
"Excuse me. Caprica. Caprica Six. Uh. It's, it's it's good to uh... Uh, Listen, I, I heard about your loss and I wanted to offer you my condolences--to tell you how truly sorry I am."

Caprica Six:
"Thank you Gaius."

Baltar:
"Oh ah, I see, I see you've got your ah..(nodding to the food handout she's holding) You know if you need anymore, I've got some..."

Caprica Six:
"I'm fine"

Baltar:
"and also I'm not,, I'm not aware of your current situation, but if you need a place to stay..."

Caprica Six:
"I have no desire to join your harem!"

Baltar:
(gets teary eyed) "That's not what I... That's not what I...(sigh). We are trying to make a difference within the fleet."

Caprica Six:
"You haven't changed Gaius. Not really. I have."

This could very well be the beginning of Baltar and Caprica 6 redux.

We know that Baltar and Cap6 have done plenty of mating in the past with no pregnancy resulting, but they are both different people now. A new relationship based on real love (a selfless and self-sacrificing concern for another person's welfare) could result in Cap6 becoming pregnant and giving birth to a son who would eventually become the husband of Hera--a son who, coincidentally, would also be half Cylon and half human.

Mamid

March 9th, 2009, 12:58 AM

bah. not going to happen. C6 is far more intelligent that Boretar ever was.

While reading this thread, a memory came back to me about something that happened some episode some time ago and, of course, I've forgotten what it is.

oh... yes...

When Kara was captured on New Caprica and had something done to her ovary - could they have cloned her and prepared new bodies for her because they realized she was a cylon, but not a model they had? That something in her biology marked her as one of them? And what about her scar? Does that new body have it too?

And, if you have artificial wombs, you don't need to wait during and between pregnancies to have many children from one woman. Just pluck the ovary/ovaries and harvest the eggs, making them fertile and add a dash of sperm and voila, 1000001 babies from one woman, each one genetically unique. Okay, maybe not that many. Maybe only about 2-300 per woman, but the point is, if their artificial wombs that the clones use to download into new bodies can support a baby's placenta, then why not repopulate that way?

HAL2100

March 9th, 2009, 02:46 AM

You know, if Cavil wants to 'smell' dark matter who not just make him a Hybrid?

fwupow

March 9th, 2009, 09:42 AM

Doctor Simon should have discovered that Kara was a human/cylon hybrid if Kara's father was the #7 model cylon "Daniel" as is currently strongly suggested in Season 4.5.

then again, why wouldn't Baltar have discovered that Kara was either full or half Cylon when he did his analysis of the blood on the dog tag Kara gave him?

Baltar's reaction seems to suggest that Kara is full human, otherwise Baltar wouldn't be talking about angels and supernatural "crossing over" but would instead probably be revealing to Kara that she's full or half Cylon in private. Well, who knows what reaction he would have had to that except that it would likely have been different.

Was Daniel Kara's adoptive father?

fwupow

March 9th, 2009, 09:48 AM

BTW.
Boomer is about to do a 180. She's gonna pick up Hera and jump back to the fleet and Guess Who is going to follow.

Cavil will jump the Colony closer to the fleet but not all the way. He send his raiders to attack the fleet and Anders will end up sacrificing himself along with Galactica in order to destroy "The Colony" and Cavil.

Only a hybrid can track down a Cylon ship at an unknown location. The rebel baseship hybrid did it to find the Resurrection Hub. This is why Hybrid Anders will likely be the one to save the fleet by destroying Cavil and The Colony.

This is what I think could very well happen in the next couple episodes anyway.

ToasterOnFire

March 9th, 2009, 09:53 AM

My only disappointment with that scene is that Adama did not adhere to the tradition of smashing a model ship like he did in so many of his previous emotional breakdowns.

I really miss the model ship smashing. Somehow, throwing a paint tray against the wall just doesn't represent the same value as destroying something that you've invested hundreds of hours over a period of months, maybe years in tediously constructing.

Galactica deserves the smashing of, at least, one model ship. I suppose that when Adama thinks about how he doesn't even have one ready to smash, it makes him go for the bottle even harder.

I'm thinking seriously about building my own model ship, just so I'll be ready for when my own inevitable emotional crises strikes. It's better to have one and not need it than to need it and not have it!
Heh. Actually, the smashing of that model ship was completely ad-libbed by Olmos. And the ship wasn't some cheap replicate - it was on loan from a museum and was apparently worth several thousand dollars. I can't imagine the O_O on set right after he did that. Slapping around some paint is much cheaper. :D :D

Pheonix Commander

March 9th, 2009, 02:48 PM

bah. not going to happen. C6 is far more intelligent that Boretar ever was.

While reading this thread, a memory came back to me about something that happened some episode some time ago and, of course, I've forgotten what it is.

oh... yes...

When Kara was captured on New Caprica and had something done to her ovary - could they have cloned her and prepared new bodies for her because they realized she was a cylon, but not a model they had? That something in her biology marked her as one of them? And what about her scar? Does that new body have it too?

And, if you have artificial wombs, you don't need to wait during and between pregnancies to have many children from one woman. Just pluck the ovary/ovaries and harvest the eggs, making them fertile and add a dash of sperm and voila, 1000001 babies from one woman, each one genetically unique. Okay, maybe not that many. Maybe only about 2-300 per woman, but the point is, if their artificial wombs that the clones use to download into new bodies can support a baby's placenta, then why not repopulate that way?

Not a bad theory. It would seem that cloning human/humanoid tissue would be far easier then full resurrection IMO because it would make sense that the passing on of memories would be the hard part of it all. Surely the Cylons would have the materials and skills to make empty shells and then programme them as needed. We know they can do this with the 13 models so it wouldn't surprise me if at the colony this sort of cloning had been investigated but maybe found to be a dead end. It may have just been dusted off for a greater purpose for Starbuck.

HAL2100

March 9th, 2009, 03:45 PM

Heh. Actually, the smashing of that model ship was completely ad-libbed by Olmos. And the ship wasn't some cheap replicate - it was on loan from a museum and was apparently worth several thousand dollars. I can't imagine the O_O on set right after he did that. Slapping around some paint is much cheaper. :D :D

When did he smash the priceless, one of a kind, you break it you buy-it model? I honestly don't recall it.

Berg417448

March 9th, 2009, 04:11 PM

When did he smash the priceless, one of a kind, you break it you buy-it model? I honestly don't recall it.

He did this in the Maelstrom episode. RDM discussed it int his podcast.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sazerac/3207216095/

entil2001

March 9th, 2009, 05:58 PM

With only a handful of episodes left, and so many loose ends to resolve, time is of the essence. So it's hard not to feel like this prelude to the series finale wasn't a wasted opportunity. There were some vague hints as to the resolution of the series as a whole, but most of the time was spent on lingering character vignettes. As satisfying as they can be, and as in keeping with the style of the series it might be, it's still hard to temper the disappointment.

This episode was essentially the combination of character reactions to the Galactica situation, the abduction of Hera, and Kara's odd status quo. The net effect is a laundry list of the implications of the past few episodes and what the writers will need to tackle at the breaking of the day. As already mentioned, this almost works at cross-purposes. It's good to know that the writers have a grasp on the loose ends, but it's a also a reminder of just how much they'll need to cram into the finale.

A lot of time is spent on Adama's growing realization that saving Galactica is not a viable option, and the recent efforts have merely been delaying the inevitable. That process is painful, to say the least. For all that the Cylons have agreed to hand over military authority to Adama in exchange for a voice on the new council, it's still the loss of the most potent symbol of Human autonomy. Defense of the remnants of Humanity will now be dependent on outside cooperation, and a former enemy at that.

The previous episode tied Roslin's condition to the "health" of the Galactica, and that metaphor continues. The flashes of the Opera House, and the suggestion that Caprica Six is once again sharing those dreams and visions, point to an explanation for those elements since the first season. But the emphasis is on the notion that Roslin will probably die before the human race finds its new home (if, in fact, that prophecy still holds any meaning), and how that becomes a compelling impetus for Adama's decision to move people off Galactica.

In essence, Galactica is only good for one more mission anyway, and that's where the abduction of Hera comes into play. Hera represents the future for both the Human and Cylon people, and in that respect, she is a symbol of hope. The Cylons don't see a future without her, and The Humans don't see a future without the Cylons. Cavil is forcing a confrontation that he assumes he will win. For Adama and the Cylons, there is only one mission left: retrieve Hera by any means necessary or die trying.

Ander's situation has the potential of giving Galactica an unexpected edge. It could allow Adama to run the impending mission with a skeleton crew. It also had the benefit of reminding the audience that Kara has been termed "the harbinger of death", which I still believe is meant more in the classical sense of change. In other words, survival through mergence of the Human and Cylon people into a self-propagating population.

At least, that's how it's appeared to be shaping up; with the mystery of Kara's resurrection still on the table, it could really mean anything. The "Kara is a proto-Hera" theory is still viable, but this episode lends credence to those who see an outside agency as being the connective link between the Final Five activation, the Roslin/Caprica connection, Kara, and Hera. I'm still not particularly pleased with that notion, because it has a great deal of potential to fall into deus ex machina territory.

Some have speculated that this outside agency could be the Lords of Kobol. If the Lords of Kobol were, as speculated, the surviving Cylons of a previous cycle, it would at least fit the overall foundation for the series. Another offered possibility is the "beings of light" theory, referring to a story from the original "Battlestar Galactica". If that were true, it would be unfortunate, because while the effect has been explored in relative detail, there hasn't been much evidence of someone else beyond the Humans and Cylons lurking in the background.

Unfortunately, all of these plot and character threads, right down to Boomer's wavering faith in her actions and Baltar's little speech about Kara, could have been compressed into a lot less time. It feels like this episode was a bit too methodical for its own good. It's hard to tell, however, because it all comes down to the finale. If three hours of finale is enough to cover all the bases sufficiently, then this episode will be vindicated.

I'm rather surprised that we have gone this many pages and nobody mentioned Laura and Bill getting stoned smoking that fatty. That was no Caprica Cohiba.

I am happy that the acceptance of medical marijuana has made this a non issue. Roslin could use a week of the munchies. She looks so thin.

wontgetfooledagain

March 9th, 2009, 08:35 PM

I want to know how it is that Adama is able to do his job effectively while being in a chemical haze all the time.

Harkonnen

March 9th, 2009, 09:48 PM

I bet the reason why the "Cylon goo" isn't working is because it needs the hybrid. I thought of this because when Ander's gets plugged in the metal starts to groan. So keeping him plugged in may be the way to save Galactica.

atlantis-abydos

March 9th, 2009, 10:24 PM

A great episode, but when it ended all I could think of was *aaaaaand...????*
They have SO much explaining to do, and only three episodes are left.
And being a little selfish, I wish for more Sam Anders dialogue... at least Kara didn't get to shoot him, I still hope for his return ¬¬

Bruman

March 10th, 2009, 12:03 AM

Kara is the harbinger of death FOR THE CYLONS - since she is a key element in the destruction of the hub, which made Cylons mortal. I take this as the warning that hybrids made about Kara Thrace.

She will lead humanity to its end. Well, that doesn't necessarily mean to it's doom. The end may be simply a new beginning, probably along with cylons and cylon interbreeding. Humanity may end, but not in a destructive way.

My sense is that Kara is from a cycle that is even earlier than the Final Five cylons. I know that I'm not the only one who thinks this, but that's where I stand on the issue for now.

garhkal

March 10th, 2009, 12:04 AM

He got slimed!!

bfldworker

March 10th, 2009, 03:26 AM

Kara is the harbinger of death FOR THE CYLONS - since she is a key element in the destruction of the hub, which made Cylons mortal. I take this as the warning that hybrids made about Kara Thrace.

She will lead humanity to its end. Well, that doesn't necessarily mean to it's doom. The end may be simply a new beginning, probably along with cylons and cylon interbreeding. Humanity may end, but not in a destructive way.

My sense is that Kara is from a cycle that is even earlier than the Final Five cylons. I know that I'm not the only one who thinks this, but that's where I stand on the issue for now.

I won't deny she is from something. It's just finding out what she is from.

Mongoletsi

March 10th, 2009, 06:17 AM

I re-watched and am now a little more appreciative. But this episode should have been so much more. The last episode was massive, intense, important - up there with S1 and S2 quality. This one however would've been at home in S3.

I did like some bits, especially Lee Adama's laughing-shouting-disbelief... "G-g-Gaius BALTAR?!" I liked how Starbuck slapped Baltar, rather than beat the crap out of him. I also like how the Rebel Cylons are repeatedly being shown as oath-keepers, not breakers. Saving human lives during the blow-out was a win.

I just don't buy the whole Anders-controlling-Galactica crap though. Sure, it's been explained away, but it's a bit of a convoluted way to insert some tired scifi cliches. I'm bored of Roslin now, but I suspect that's the point. Oh and when I saw that massive "colony" thing I just cringed basically. It was like a big Hive ship, but BSG has always been lo-tech scifi (if you see what I'm getting at).

We'll see...

HAL2100

March 10th, 2009, 02:16 PM

I did like some bits, especially Lee Adama's laughing-shouting-disbelief... "G-g-Gaius BALTAR?!" I liked how Starbuck slapped Baltar, rather than beat the crap out of him. I also like how the Rebel Cylons are repeatedly being shown as oath-keepers, not breakers. Saving human lives during the blow-out was a win.

I sort of miss the in-your-face, kicking-your-ass Starbuck, but I can see how the slap could be taken as her beginning to take things a bit more seriously than before - basically her coming to a deeper and mature state of being (for lack of a better way of putting it.)

I just don't buy the whole Anders-controlling-Galactica crap though. Sure, it's been explained away, but it's a bit of a convoluted way to insert some tired scifi cliches.

I didn't take it that way. Give that he was setup as a Cylon, I readily accepted it. If it had been Ellen as soon as she came back, then I'd be having some problems. But the setup brought me to the point where I was able to accept it without a second thought.

HAL2100

March 10th, 2009, 02:26 PM

Given that RDM used write/produce for Star Trek, what if he's going to play a really big practical joke on us and reveal that its the Borg behind it all? In the quest for perfection, they stumbled across the Colonies and Earth and decided that the Cylons would be the perfect adaption for them.

Espeon1962

March 10th, 2009, 02:35 PM

I just had the opportunity to read the interview posted on the Chicago Tribune site with the episode writer, and one issue I felt should have been addressed in the episode was left on the cutting room floor

The Chief is in the brig - his scene was cut

Lots of interesting commentary in this episode thread plus some rehashing of old theories. I believe we have consensus that the old girls final mission is going to involve potentially the rescue of Hera and some explosive pain for Colony, should be exciting to watch.

Only a little more then 72 hours till we get some answers and direction. I think we are going to see some major space porn (ie space battles) - it would be sweet to see kara and the pilots doing so good old kick ass in their fighters again - one can only hope!

bmadiuk

March 10th, 2009, 02:39 PM

RE Spoiler above: That would have been nice to know... there was plenty of room to fit it into the episode since it moved so slowly.

SGFerrit

March 10th, 2009, 02:45 PM

Hera did ram the Galactica into a basestar in that first scene, foreshadowing?

That's what my uncle thought.

HAL2100

March 10th, 2009, 05:16 PM

RE Spoiler above: That would have been nice to know... there was plenty of room to fit it into the episode since it moved so slowly.

I agree, if there were going to cut the scene they could have at least given us some dialog to mention that or at least just done a shot that begins with a close up (head and shoulders of him) looking downing down in grief and then pulls out to show him sitting, then in the room, then behind the bars...cut to black.

akuma07

March 11th, 2009, 12:35 AM

Another talker, great, just what we needed with so few episodes left.

If they dont do something, anything soon, I'm going to stop watching this as its so frustrating boring at the moment, but I continue to watch in the hope something might happen.

Saadie

March 11th, 2009, 03:01 AM

Another talker, great, just what we needed with so few episodes left.

If they dont do something, anything soon, I'm going to stop watching this as its so frustrating boring at the moment, but I continue to watch in the hope something might happen.

dude relax just 3 more hours to go :P.

btw I wonder why no one in FF is bothered about how Karas father knew the "Song" they are more concerned about Hera. Kind of weird or have I missed something?

Pharaoh Atem

March 11th, 2009, 04:57 AM

:mad: could the podcast be anymore late

bmadiuk

March 13th, 2009, 12:23 PM

Am I the only one shaking with excitement? 5.5 hours to go!

Matt G

March 14th, 2009, 02:56 PM

1. Anders as hybrid - fine.

2. Baltar is a grade A twit.

3. The Colonial media are seriously unrealistic.

4. Interesting to see what Adama has in mind for the Galactica.

Least good ep of S4.5 though. Felt like filler.

Bruman

March 14th, 2009, 08:26 PM

Just rewatched Islanded and have to say that the scene where Lee tells Kara he doesn't care about who or what she is was really touching.

It was also a bit freaky just afterwards to see the photo of Dee come in focus... it looked almost as if Dee was sneering at Starbuck from beyond the grave.

BTW, anyone notice the heavy raider in the opening credits (when they show the attack on Caprica - there's a swarm of Raiders from the miniseries scenes, and one of them is a heavy raider in the lower left corner). IIRC, the heavy raider first appeared in Season 2, so I wonder when it migrated into the credits.

Skydiver

March 16th, 2009, 06:33 PM

the podcast is up if anyone cares

Pharaoh Atem

March 17th, 2009, 05:01 AM

the podcast is up if anyone cares

:ronon: beat me to it http://media.scifi.com/battlestar/downloads/podcast/mp3/420/bsg_ep420_FULL.mp3

BubblingOverWithIdeas

March 18th, 2009, 09:03 AM

And the enhanced episode: http://www.scifi.com/rewind/?sid=32850

Sky Monster

March 19th, 2009, 12:10 AM

BTW, anyone notice the heavy raider in the opening credits (when they show the attack on Caprica - there's a swarm of Raiders from the miniseries scenes, and one of them is a heavy raider in the lower left corner). IIRC, the heavy raider first appeared in Season 2, so I wonder when it migrated into the credits.

That Heavy Raider has been there since before Season 4 began if my memory serves me correctly. It is a little weird huh... I guess it just looks cooler :)

Confessor Rahl

September 6th, 2009, 07:30 PM

This is, without a doubt one of Olmos' most incredible performances in the show. I actually felt so moved by his pain and his demanour I nearly wept. This is one of the most powerful episodes of the season