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Re: Is eternal security or a sin and still saved belief Biblical - Pt 2

Originally Posted by Jason0047

I already told others repeatedly here that abiding in grievous unrepentant sin is separation from God and it equates with spiritual death. Only repentance (seeking the Lord Jesus's forgiveness by prayer) can restore a person back to salvation again. James 5:19-20 and the Parable of the Prodigal Son (Luke 15) teaches that a believer can go from a saved state, to an unsaved state, and then become saved again. The father said that his son was "dead" and was "alive again" two times. He said he was "lost" and now he is "found." This is speaking in spiritual terms of course. For it would make very little sense if it was not talking about salvation. The previous two parables on repentance makes that even more clear.

And I keep telling you that you have NOT demonstrated an accurate exegesis of what "grevious sin" really is. Until you do that in proper theological context, you are just howling at the moon.

Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

Re: Is eternal security or a sin and still saved belief Biblical - Pt 2

Originally Posted by Jason0047

God can help a believer come back and be saved, but it is not a guarantee. A believer can still resist God. Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation (in the sense of like how one would misplace one's car keys), but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,

Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:[*]Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)

Here is the one that stood out for me. I then looked the verse up inquiring WHY this one would suddenly jump out at me. After reading the verse, I am reminded of something you said that refutes your use of this verse as one to support your theology.

Do you remember in this series of 2 threads, I raised the issue with Peter's sin in denying Christ and asking if that sin caused God to abandon him and this caused Peter to loose salvation?

Your answer was basically that Peter could not loose salvation because the Holy Spirit had not yet come and this is your way of "dismissing" that God remained with Peter after he had sinned and in dismissing, avoided discussing honestly.

Basically this is what is happening... you are deceiving yourself and making ALL attempts to stand on a false theology. You are so deceived that I'm gonna ask you this:

Do you see how you "yourself" have been pointing out ALL the holes in this theology simply by the use of isolated scriptures, along with your responses, that literally COUNTER and refute your points more and more?

Your response that Peter could not loose salvation because the Holy Spirit had not come yet... well, the Holy Spirit had not come in the time all those disciples (John 6:66) chose to stop following Jesus.

So, BY YOUR response about Peter, you CAN'T use John 6:66 as a verse to support the theology that God abandons a person after they have done ONE sin.

If I'm prompted to address more, I will be obedient to the Holy Spirit.

However, if you are to receive this help, you also must be obedient to the Holy Spirit.

Slug1--out

~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~

~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

Re: Is eternal security or a sin and still saved belief Biblical - Pt 2

What sin do you think I am in right now? I would be happy that you would point it out so I could seek forgiveness with God, if that was the case. But if I believed as you do, it really wouldn't matter if you told me. That's what I find disturbing about your belief

Wrongly judging your brothers . James 4 11-12 doesn't tell us to judge if you think your right brother. You have judged the church, and the brethren on this board. Wrongly , I might add. But because you are perfect you won't see it.

Re: Is eternal security or a sin and still saved belief Biblical - Pt 2

Originally Posted by Jason0047

If you are not talking from the Bible then you are really not talking with any kind of spiritual authority or truth for me. My authority is the Bible and not your thoughts.

That's because you have set yourself up as 'the' spiritual authority without anyone tangible to answer to. This is why forsaking the assembly of Jesus' saints leads to incorrect doctrine, perverting God's Word and sullying His Name. By forsaking God's people, you nullify the teaching of the Spirit to many, who have been empowered with the discernment to bring a saint back to correct doctrine through Godly council. You have deserted God's people Jason, in favor of your own tunnel vision of God's Glory.

I don't know what that means to God but for me it's grievous.

"Without faith, it is impossible to please God...."

Our God isn't appeasable, like the Greek gods were in that culture. You can't make up for your sin with some good works. That only works for secular greek minded folks, and it is limited at that. The ONLY and I mean

the

O N L Y thing that pleases God is our faith. Of course that faith extends into works, but those works don't belong to us, they belong to HIM - and that is what we are exercising right now in an attempt to exhort you into God's magnificence. We are made righteous by Him for HIS Namesake, not mine and not yours. If you don't appreciate the work God has done in His Saints, you have just declared either His saints liars or you have declared God a liar.

Which one is it Jason?

Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

Re: Is eternal security or a sin and still saved belief Biblical - Pt 2

Do you see how you "yourself" have been pointing out ALL the holes in this theology simply by the use of isolated scriptures, along with your responses, that literally COUNTER and refute your points more and more?

His inconsistency in contextualizing scripture has been the only thing that's been consistent. Jason's worst critic is Jason, and he cannot see it.

Re: Is eternal security or a sin and still saved belief Biblical - Pt 2

Originally Posted by Kalahari

You know Jason after attending our Pentecost service today I realize that one can not obey God's command by following your doctrine. Do you know why it is impossible?

We know that God's command is to love God with all your heart and your neighbour as yourself. To love one's neighbour one must become the servant of your neighbour and to do upon him as unto yourself in love. Now if one is to continuously keep one's eye on yourself and the law to make sure that you do not by any chance sin and become separated from God, then there is no way that you can love God and your neighbour as the Bible teaches. Then you are serving two masters, love and the law. It will give you a hardened heart like the Pharisees in not helping their neighbour because of the law and not doing good, which is what God demands. See parable of the good Samaritan.

Right along your ministering, I tried with something very much the same:

Originally Posted by Slug1

Now... the post I made about being Christ-like? Here it is again...

Jason, I was doing my devotional this morning before I headed into work. The topic was iron sharpening iron and the theme was about friendship as well.

As you become more Christ-like, when one of your closest friends stumbles back into sin, are you going to turn away from them and completely abandon them by removing yourself absolutely and in totality, from their life?

Or because you are Christ-like, are you going to assure them (promise them), that you will always be there for them and that they can expect that you will be faithfully pressing them to turn away from the sin, no matter how much the sinfulness causes them to rebel against you or attempt to avoid you?

If this was addressed in honesty, our LOVE, if IT IS like Christ's, then when a close friend, in whom we have entered a relationship with rebels against us because "they" have begun to sin... LIKE Christ, we would remain in the relationship and do all we can to help them turn from the error.

Slug1--out

~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~

~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

Re: Is eternal security or a sin and still saved belief Biblical - Pt 2

That's because you have set yourself up as 'the' spiritual authority without anyone to answer to.

This is what happens every time people forsake the church of Christ.

This is why forsaking the assembly of Jesus' saints leads to incorrect doctrine, perverting God's Word and sullying His Name.

Yep ! I hadn't gotten this far and I had already commented above. Absolutely what happens when the body is forsaken.

I don't know what that means to God but for me it's grievous.

Grievous sin / non-grievous sin , it's so confusing !

"Without faith, it is impossible to please God...."

Our God isn't appeasable, like Zeus. The ONLY and I mean

O N L Y thing that pleases God is our faith. We are made righteous by Him for HIS Namesake, not yours. If you don't appreciate the work God has done in His Saints, you have just declared either His saints liars or you have declared God a liar.

Re: Is eternal security or a sin and still saved belief Biblical - Pt 2

Originally Posted by Kalahari

You know Jason after attending our Pentecost service today I realize that one can not obey God's command by following your doctrine. Do you know why it is impossible?

We know that God's command is to love God with all your heart and your neighbour as yourself. To love one's neighbour one must become the servant of your neighbour and to do upon him as unto yourself in love. Now if one is to continuously keep one's eye on yourself and the law to make sure that you do not by any chance sin and become separated from God, then there is no way that you can love God and your neighbour as the Bible teaches. Then you are serving two masters, love and the law. It will give you a hardened heart like the Pharisees in not helping their neighbour because of the law and not doing good, which is what God demands. See parable of the good Samaritan.

I heard exactly this same message today when I read 1 Cor 13. It's incredible how God can say the same exact thing in completely different narratives, isn't it?

Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

Re: Is eternal security or a sin and still saved belief Biblical - Pt 2

Originally Posted by Pbminimum

His inconsistency in contextualizing scripture has been the only thing that's been consistent. Jason's worst critic is Jason, and he cannot see it.

By not receiving the Spiritual gifts God has given his saints (by forsaking the assembly), Jason is missing out on huge gaps of what The Spirit has for him, and also by forsaking the assembly, the saints are missing out of what God has given Jason to exhort his brethren.

A finger can not function outside of the body. It will shrivel up and mis-represent the body it has separated itself from. That is a tangible, physical fact.

Forsaking the assembly of God is a dis-service to the saint, the saints and most of all, I believe it is an insult to God who works through His people to Glorify His Name.

Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

Re: Is eternal security or a sin and still saved belief Biblical - Pt 2

Re: Is eternal security or a sin and still saved belief Biblical - Pt 2

Originally Posted by Pbminimum

Grievous sin / non-grievous sin , it's so confusing !

.

That's because it is tied to a heart condition, an attitude. A person (like David) can commit murder from fear or a person (like Judas) can conspire to commit murder because his heart is consumed with evil.

Both result in the death of an innocent man, but only one is grievous in the eyes of God.

Chatah - sin of ignorance or ritually unclean state (the latter does not apply to Christians)
Pesha - sin of passion, fear, unbelief, rebellion against a law
Avone - sin of rebellion against God. A person with "avone" in his heart will seek to sin just to physically manifest their hate of God. They will persecute God's people, not because they falsely believe they are serving God, but because they want to manifest their hatred of God through the only tangible representation of God they can find.

Again, it's about the heart. God can take sinful actions as far as east is from the west, but a rebellious and hard heart is unwilling to answer to God's call. God's call is like the stench of death to a person filled with "avone." This is why Jesus said blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is unpardonable, for the heart that accuses the Holy Spirit is consumed by "avone."

Jesus said as much in the beatitudes - heck God said the same thing to Abel a really long time ago.

Originally Posted by Kalahari

We can see the working and teaching of the Spirit through His body even if we are continents apart.

The Spirit is not limited by space and time. He goes where He goes....

Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

Re: Is eternal security or a sin and still saved belief Biblical - Pt 2

Another thing for Jason to consider is when we came to Christ in faith, it was not only a restoration of a relationship but a new relation was created. We became children of God. That is not something to take lightly and also not something to loose and regain whimsically. God does not disown His children and make a mockery of His love.