And wolf gang invent the campus board, ask yourself why. Maybe he was better off doing some endurance drills.

The reason that doing endurance drills is such common advice is because most climbers are incredibly strong in comparison to their endurance because of bouldering gyms. Wolfgang probably did not have that problem. Also, if you do them correctly, a 4x4 is a hundred times more debilitating than any campus workout and was a tool developed, like the campus board, to develop the fitness to climb world class routes.

Is there anyone out there that can explain to me why these people are so unneccessarily negative? Is it jealously like you guys said it was before? Help me understand, seriously. Is there no good reason? Is this simply how most people are and I haven't noticed in my bubble?

Over 14 years of climbing, every climber I've met in person shares the same reverance for climbing that I do and seems to separate climbing life from the bullshit involved in day to day life. Yet on this climbing forum, I feel like I'm in high school again.

I guess climbing has become so mainstream, it's just like everything else now?

I hope you aren't talking about me. I was simply stating that you were incorrect in saying it was an increase in power.

And wolf gang invent the campus board, ask yourself why. Maybe he was better off doing some endurance drills.

The reason that doing endurance drills is such common advice is because most climbers are incredibly strong in comparison to their endurance because of bouldering gyms. Wolfgang probably did not have that problem. Also, if you do them correctly, a 4x4 is a hundred times more debilitating than any campus workout and was a tool developed, like the campus board, to develop the fitness to climb world class routes.

I wont argue with that, but i have never once done a 4x4 with ought multiples interruptions by random climbers. Also my understanding is that 4x4's targets high end endurance where as campusing pushes maximum strength limit and strength endurance. Could be wrong on that.

And wolf gang invent the campus board, ask yourself why. Maybe he was better off doing some endurance drills.

The reason that doing endurance drills is such common advice is because most climbers are incredibly strong in comparison to their endurance because of bouldering gyms. Wolfgang probably did not have that problem. Also, if you do them correctly, a 4x4 is a hundred times more debilitating than any campus workout and was a tool developed, like the campus board, to develop the fitness to climb world class routes.

I wont argue with that, but i have never once done a 4x4 with ought multiples interruptions by random climbers. Also my understanding is that 4x4's targets high end endurance where as campusing pushes maximum strength limit and strength endurance. Could be wrong on that.

I doubt campusing does much for endurance unless you are doing tons of reps, and then you would be much better off doing something else.

I started doing 4x4s in earnest a few months ago. Due to my schedule being really weird, I haven't been able to do more than 3 sessions in a row without long breaks in between, but my hardest onsight is now a grade above where my previous hardest redpoint was before I started 4x4s.

And wolf gang invent the campus board, ask yourself why. Maybe he was better off doing some endurance drills.

The reason that doing endurance drills is such common advice is because most climbers are incredibly strong in comparison to their endurance because of bouldering gyms. Wolfgang probably did not have that problem. Also, if you do them correctly, a 4x4 is a hundred times more debilitating than any campus workout and was a tool developed, like the campus board, to develop the fitness to climb world class routes.

I wont argue with that, but i have never once done a 4x4 with ought multiples interruptions by random climbers. Also my understanding is that 4x4's targets high end endurance where as campusing pushes maximum strength limit and strength endurance. Could be wrong on that.

I doubt campusing does much for endurance unless you are doing tons of reps, and then you would be much better off doing something else.

I started doing 4x4s in earnest a few months ago. Due to my schedule being really weird, I haven't been able to do more than 3 sessions in a row without long breaks in between, but my hardest onsight is now a grade above where my previous hardest redpoint was before I started 4x4s.

Guess i will try to read up on it. I just thought that in pushing maximum strength you are at the peak if not slightly beyond the highest level of strength endurance.

And wolf gang invent the campus board, ask yourself why. Maybe he was better off doing some endurance drills.

The reason that doing endurance drills is such common advice is because most climbers are incredibly strong in comparison to their endurance because of bouldering gyms. Wolfgang probably did not have that problem. Also, if you do them correctly, a 4x4 is a hundred times more debilitating than any campus workout and was a tool developed, like the campus board, to develop the fitness to climb world class routes.

I wont argue with that, but i have never once done a 4x4 with ought multiples interruptions by random climbers. Also my understanding is that 4x4's targets high end endurance where as campusing pushes maximum strength limit and strength endurance. Could be wrong on that.

I doubt campusing does much for endurance unless you are doing tons of reps, and then you would be much better off doing something else.

I started doing 4x4s in earnest a few months ago. Due to my schedule being really weird, I haven't been able to do more than 3 sessions in a row without long breaks in between, but my hardest onsight is now a grade above where my previous hardest redpoint was before I started 4x4s.

Guess i will try to read up on it. I just thought that in pushing maximum strength you are at the peak if not slightly beyond the highest level of strength endurance.

Anyway, good for you on the improvements.

I just wanted everyone to know that I was being critical to enhance my own understanding, not to get down on you or flesh. You guys are like brothers to me.

Is there anyone out there that can explain to me why these people are so unneccessarily negative? Is it jealously like you guys said it was before? Help me understand, seriously. Is there no good reason? Is this simply how most people are and I haven't noticed in my bubble?

Over 14 years of climbing, every climber I've met in person shares the same reverance for climbing that I do and seems to separate climbing life from the bullshit involved in day to day life. Yet on this climbing forum, I feel like I'm in high school again.

I guess climbing has become so mainstream, it's just like everything else now?

Shit Flesh, I was just thinking the same thing when I got to your post here! Like who the hell is "one staring" your posts? Dudes, if you don't want to read this stuff go elsewhere. Haters and RC.com gankers are gonna hate I guess.

Sorry, Ceebo, but there's no such thing as respectable grades or mediocre grades. All climbing is good in whatever discipline and level one feels comfortable in. You might be a numbers chaser but most of us are more interested in climbing good routes, regardless of the grade.

Sorry, Ceebo, but there's no such thing as respectable grades or mediocre grades. All climbing is good in whatever discipline and level one feels comfortable in. You might be a numbers chaser but most of us are more interested in climbing good routes, regardless of the grade.

Why do you assume a person who is a grade chaser has less love for climbing than you?. And ofc their is such thing as mediocre.. unless i am imagining this list of difficulty grades in order from easiest to hardest.

Btw, you may not know this ( < sarcasm).. but it is possible to pick a fun and enjoyable looking hard route. Besides, the guy who can climb the hardest.. can go to any crag and have greater option of ''fun climbs''.... logical huh?.

This climb was rated v12 originally, however, I suspect it's a little easier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpxClpxnSnE&feature=related

Hold on, that's Mr. Mom put up by Jeff Webb back in 95 or 96. I don't remember him calling it V12. It was more like V9 if I recall correctly.

Grade inflation anyone?

lol, i think i'll buy two copies of your new book now...

10 copies if you replace the word every use of the word "failing" in the book with "ceeboing"

Now you are making me wish that we had repeatedly used the word "punter" in the book.

Believe it or not, I just started doing 4x4's today. As long as I maintain focus on movement, footwork, balance, etc..., this should increase my ability to perform difficult moves while fatigued. It's good to challenge yourself to maintain appropriate mental focus while fatigued, otherwise 1) you may sacrifice technique as you fatigue and 2) you may have difficulty when the crux is at a point in the route when your energy levels are not optimal. I'm glad to report that the 4x4's you've recommended have been a lot of fun because your sense of accomplishment accrues after every single problem you send. This really keeps your drive up! I may promote myself to the 6x8's tomorrow.

Sorry, Ceebo, but there's no such thing as respectable grades or mediocre grades. All climbing is good in whatever discipline and level one feels comfortable in. You might be a numbers chaser but most of us are more interested in climbing good routes, regardless of the grade.

Why do you assume a person who is a grade chaser has less love for climbing than you?. And ofc their is such thing as mediocre.. unless i am imagining this list of difficulty grades in order from easiest to hardest.

Btw, you may not know this ( < sarcasm).. but it is possible to pick a fun and enjoyable looking hard route. Besides, the guy who can climb the hardest.. can go to any crag and have greater option of ''fun climbs''.... logical huh?.

I didn't accuse you of not loving climbing. I just pointed out that because some grades are easy and others hard doesn't mean that the easier ones are mediocre and the harder ones are respectable.

And, no, not logical. It all depends on the climbing area. If you're talking Rifle, yes, you're right. If you're at the Potrero Chico, or Joshua Tree, or Devil's Tower, or the Gunks, etc, etc, you're wrong.

Sorry, Ceebo, but there's no such thing as respectable grades or mediocre grades. All climbing is good in whatever discipline and level one feels comfortable in. You might be a numbers chaser but most of us are more interested in climbing good routes, regardless of the grade.

Why do you assume a person who is a grade chaser has less love for climbing than you?. And ofc their is such thing as mediocre.. unless i am imagining this list of difficulty grades in order from easiest to hardest.

Btw, you may not know this ( < sarcasm).. but it is possible to pick a fun and enjoyable looking hard route. Besides, the guy who can climb the hardest.. can go to any crag and have greater option of ''fun climbs''.... logical huh?.

I didn't accuse you of not loving climbing. I just pointed out that because some grades are easy and others hard doesn't mean that the easier ones are mediocre and the harder ones are respectable.

And, no, not logical. It all depends on the climbing area. If you're talking Rifle, yes, you're right. If you're at the Potrero Chico, or Joshua Tree, or Devil's Tower, or the Gunks, etc, etc, you're wrong.

I meant mediocre in the grand scale of what appears to be humanly possible. It was meant from a physical and ability perspective. People could climb much harder if they wanted too.. but for multiple reasons they don't. Maybe i should have referred to such grades as the ''casual'' ones. Their is nothing wrong with those grades (im still within that zone too.. don't forget). Still it does not take away the fact of what they are. Just like in football, you have small league and big league. The small league is often referred to as the ''armature'' league. Their all still having fun though right?.

Yes, it is my understanding the original Mr. Mom is easier (V10 according to the "black bible") and it starts on Bear Hug sit and moves left to Johny's Mantel. However, "Mr. Mom the Hard Way" (AKA "Back-door Bearhug" I think) goes from left to right as Flesh did it. Until Flesh suggested V11/12, I had only heard V12 for the grade. As for first-hand experience I can only say that either direction is beyond my current abilities.

HAHA, well it's actually not done, I promised y'all though so I will put it here next week sometime... I've been busy bouldering outside before it gets to hot. 10PM session coming tonight.

Sorry I haven't put up the video yet, I'm going out of town for two weeks. I PROMISE I'll do it when I get back. Here's a little video of how the open handed campusing has helped me. This climb was rated v12 originally, however, I suspect it's a little easier.

HAHA, well it's actually not done, I promised y'all though so I will put it here next week sometime... I've been busy bouldering outside before it gets to hot. 10PM session coming tonight.

Sorry I haven't put up the video yet, I'm going out of town for two weeks. I PROMISE I'll do it when I get back. Here's a little video of how the open handed campusing has helped me. This climb was rated v12 originally, however, I suspect it's a little easier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpxClpxnSnE&feature=related

That climb would be waaaaayyy more difficult if it had some hardcore rock music with a stellar guitar solo. It's really the only way to increase a climbs difficulty. Chris Sharma only climbs 5.10 if you watch his videos on mute.

Yes, it is my understanding the original Mr. Mom is easier (V10 according to the "black bible") and it starts on Bear Hug sit and moves left to Johny's Mantel. However, "Mr. Mom the Hard Way" (AKA "Back-door Bearhug" I think) goes from left to right as Flesh did it. Until Flesh suggested V11/12, I had only heard V12 for the grade. As for first-hand experience I can only say that either direction is beyond my current abilities.

Thanks for the additional info elmaylmbe.

Of course the real test of a climber's abilities on that particular boulder is if they can flash the V4 just to the right of Bear Hug!