Hey MT. Just wanted you to know that I tried to send my ranking list several times but it was rejected every time after the first failed send. My computer has some special filters because of the editing that I do and it may be that it is effecting the transmission of attachments. I am sorry you had to go to such trouble and unhappy that I could not participate. Maybe the end of the year will to more smoothly, Mike.

There appears to be a void in the rankings.. that is, we have a preseason ranking list.. a mid season ranking list.. leaving a post season ranking list wanting.. without further adieu, the list can be formatted as you wish.. no rules save for:

If a player no longer has rookie eligibility at the ML level (i.e. 130 at bats for hitters or 50 innings pitched or 45 days on the active roster for the Indians. This excludes time on the disabled list) before September 1 , he should not be listed.. e.g. Jason Kipnis 136 AB's is not eligible for the Indians Minor League Post Season Rankings, Cord Phelps with 71 ABs is eligible..

This ranking has eleven pitchers and nine position players. The depth of the system remains pretty strong, however with the graduation of Kipnis, Chisenhall, Hagadone along with the loss of White Pomeranz and Gardner.. the top end of the rankings have taken a hit from the beginning of the season.

Some aggressive rankings maybe. Paulino is obviously a shot in the dark, but I like putting those type of players at the end of the list. Guys like Rondon, Perez will have to prove their health before being considered. Same could be said for Knapp, but I feel that his upside is so much higher than the other two pitchers that he still deserves a top 20 ranking. However, if he has another injury riddled year next season, he might drop of the list entirely.

Still a solid system with some very interesting prospects in the low minors. Some of them could turn into real blue chip prospects, but so far none of them are imo.

I don't know about the rest of you but this is a difficult year for me to evaluate both the placement of prospects and the quality of the system. I think we can all agree that a number of the players drafted or international signees in the past two years have enough ceiling to warrant inclusion in a top 30 list and make for the next wave of top prospects in the organization.

My biggest rating and depth problem is what I call "the walking wounded". There are four potential top 10 prospects that missed most or all of last year due to injury. Rondon, Weglarz and Knapp are easy picks having been top to previously but I also include Alexander Perez who I feel may be the highest ceiling of the four. Knapp and Weglarz pretty much qualify as injury prone but both Perez and Rondon were surgical arms. Perez and Rondon have pretty clean mechanics so I believe their return to form will be easier that Knapp and Weglarz. The tape I have seen on Perez and Rondon has been very encouraging. It looks to me like Perez has added 3-5 feet to his fast ball and still has the same quality secondary pitches. Rondon appears to have his fast ball back. Both have to be built up and get command return but I like their chances. Both are likely to be top 20 for me but that can change. Weglarz and Knapp are a different story altogether. Top ten talent but no discernable rehab progress that I see. Until I see something positive, these two appear to be guesswork and hope. They will probably fall on my list.

If anyone has info on the four which will influence my rating or system quality, let me know please.

indianinkslinger wrote:I don't know about the rest of you but this is a difficult year for me to evaluate both the placement of prospects and the quality of the system. I think we can all agree that a number of the players drafted or international signees in the past two years have enough ceiling to warrant inclusion in a top 30 list and make for the next wave of top prospects in the organization.

My biggest rating and depth problem is what I call "the walking wounded". There are four potential top 10 prospects that missed most or all of last year due to injury. Rondon, Weglarz and Knapp are easy picks having been top to previously but I also include Alexander Perez who I feel may be the highest ceiling of the four. Knapp and Weglarz pretty much qualify as injury prone but both Perez and Rondon were surgical arms. Perez and Rondon have pretty clean mechanics so I believe their return to form will be easier that Knapp and Weglarz. The tape I have seen on Perez and Rondon has been very encouraging. It looks to me like Perez has added 3-5 feet to his fast ball and still has the same quality secondary pitches. Rondon appears to have his fast ball back. Both have to be built up and get command return but I like their chances. Both are likely to be top 20 for me but that can change. Weglarz and Knapp are a different story altogether. Top ten talent but no discernable rehab progress that I see. Until I see something positive, these two appear to be guesswork and hope. They will probably fall on my list.

If anyone has info on the four which will influence my rating or system quality, let me know please.

I have to agree with you.

I think it may be time to move Weglarz permanently to 1B. It looks like the wear and tear of playing in the OF has contributed to his health. Yes I put him in the lower spots on my 30 until he proves healthy and productive. Right now Weglarz reminds me of Aubrey.

Now Knapp is one that I would be surprised if he ever makes it out of A ball. I like his potential but continued shoulder issues have ruined far too many good prospects.

There's no lack for qlty prospects with the Tribe. There are no clear cut top prospects. As indiansinkslinger pointed out the return of the walking wounded will go a long way in determining who the top 10 guys are. I have to mention too that at least a cpl of these could and likely will be moved as the Tribe seeks to surpass the Tigres.

It's hard to lump Knapp and Weglarz in the same category together. Knapp being a pitcher and facing shoulder issues is one thing, but Weglarz and continual injuries is entirely another. If anything it could be said for Knapp he has a professional approach and was in great shape. While he could flame out the talent and dedication are there for him. Weglarz on the other-hand reminds me of 'Glass Joe' from the Punchout game I grew up playing. Weglarz has done everything humanly possibly to prove he's fragile. It may not be his fault but it's a matter of fact that he has been injury plagued. The two other walking wounded, Alex Perez and Hector Rondon have both been encouraging and pitching (already) into the 90's. Even Hector Ambriz has been encouraging, while he has surpassed rookie status he's another arm that will likely pitch in AAA and quite possibly push for a major league job. It appears Perez and Rondon have been written off by some, however neither should be and both should experience rebound seasons. From what I've seen on them and even Danny Salazar all have been encouraging. Rondon looks back to form, while Perez has seemingly picked it up a little, just based from what I've heard.

I've held back on commenting on this, which can be rare for me, but Nick Weglarz has really let his body get away from him -- it's NOT just injuries. I remember seeing him as a 19 year old and the guy was quite impressive. He's always had a big body, but back then the guy was in good shape and looked like an impressive prospect. These days he's got a doughy body and looks like Phil Mickelson. He's 24 years old, too. At that age, if you want to be in shape you can be.

Sorry. I keep reading about how injuries are holding him back and NEVER hear about his fitness. Maybe injuries have kept him from doing the cardio work he needs, but seems to me that if he worked to stay in shape (this has been a problem for a couple years now with Weglarz) this guy'd have a very legitimate shot at being the Indians 1b in 2012. Really disappointing. Look, I know some people have a hard time losing weight, but Weglarz used to be in really good shape (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyBQ3v0_zDk). It's not too late for him, though.

On another note, I agree that people underrate Perez and Rondon. I've been saying that for months on Rondon.

OhioBaseball wrote: On another note, I agree that people underrate Perez and Rondon. I've been saying that for months on Rondon.

Hector Rondon's star shone brightly before the onset of the arm injuries...and the eventual UCL Surgery (Tommy John). With the usual 12-18 month (August marked one full year since surgery) recovery time and the uncertainty of returning all the way back to where he once was, Rondon may end up like so many Indians SP prospects: a bullpen arm. The Indians appear to use this approach just a wee bit too much. Perhaps this is at least a partial explanation for the minor league system being crammed full of mid nineties throwing bullpen arms and marginal secondary offerings. In Rondon's repertoire, a modest slider and a developing change up to go with his explosive fastball , the 'three pitch mix' projected to at least an average major league quality SP. With the TJ surgery & the accompanying loss in development time, Rondon is being given an opportunity to be a ML RP.

Rondon just needs added experience and better command of all three/four of his pitches, especially keeping his fastball down and out of the middle of the plate. Keeping Rondon as an SP should be his path to further promotion and the ML's. Moving him to the pen is a mistake, imho...

I believe I have mentioned moving Rondon to the pen. In my mind that's not his future, I actually like Rondon but to rebuild innings and see that he is healthy coupled with the fact he could be caught in a roster crunch I'd consider moving him temporarily. Rondon to me could be a solid mid rotation arm and potentially and very good lock down setup / closer type if moved to the pen. Honestly I'd consider a move to the pen for Rondon short term but only if necessitated by his 40 man roster status (options).

As for Weglarz I'd guess it's probably a combo of both poor conditioning and also the injuries because of it. Alex Perez is a guy I think has the potential to come back better than prior to the injury not only bc of the velocity gains but the strength and physical maturity over the past yr+.

daingean wrote:I think it may be time to move Weglarz permanently to 1B. It looks like the wear and tear of playing in the OF has contributed to his health. Yes I put him in the lower spots on my 30 until he proves healthy and productive. Right now Weglarz reminds me of Aubrey.

Now Knapp is one that I would be surprised if he ever makes it out of A ball. I like his potential but continued shoulder issues have ruined far too many good prospects.

Yeah I've felt that Weglarz was always destined for 1B. Was hoping LaPorta could stick in LF cause he actually looked like he'd handle it better than Wegz. Looks like we have a 1B and DH now though and no LFer out of the two. I agree, full-time 1B is looking more and more like it's in Weglarz future...if not full-time DH.

I have always thought Rondon was meant to be a starter even though his secondary pitches still need the work that a pitcher with a lesser fast ball like Gomez has put in the past two years. Personnally, he is not the hardest thrower in the organization but I like his fast ball because of the movement and command before the injury. There is no need to rush him to the majors with the organizational starter depth IMO or to convert him to an RP without fully exploring him as a SP.

FWIW, I got a different impression about Weglarz that what I read here in ST. I was up close with Weglarz and made a comment aobut how big he was. One of the Indian coaches said he was a lot bigger before they cut back his weight training in offseason workouts. He said that Weglarz was down about 20 pounds because of that and much quicker so they were pleased. He looked pretty fit to me but nearly everyone is fit in my eyes. Observation from ST is that Diaz looks to be taller when side by side with Weglarz. Not sure about the move to 1B but it is not like this organization is overwhelmed with quality 1B prospects.

Just one of my hunches but I have the impression that Perez could be the TOR starter that the organization needs in a couple of years. His secondary pitches stand out and he could easily have three above average to plus pitches as he matures.

Not so with Knapp but he is young enough to recover from the adversity of the injuries. I still he him as a starter but you have to wonder about his mechanics on secondary pitches, much like Rondon. Time will tell.

homerawayfromhome wrote:I might be a bit confused but won't Rondon or DLC or both have to be on the 25 man roster by the start of 2013?

Btw, let me be clear just saying I'd move Rondon and or DLC to the pen but only if it's bc of the fact they would be forced through waivers otherwise.

Not an expert on these rules but I think Rondon will certainly qualify for one and maybe two more option years. Not sure that would happen for DeLa. Expect Weglarz would get at least one as well.

No, I believe homeawayfromhome is right here.

Rondon will have to be on the 25 man roster by 2013 or be DFAed. He only had 1 option left heading into this year, but should get the 4th one...however, that only covers 2012. 2013 he'll then again be out of options. De La Cruz started 20 games (or more) each of the last 2 seasons so I'm guessing he had more than 90 days service time each year (though maybe not?); therefore, he too will be down to his last option in 2012 and would have to be on the 25 man roster in 2013.

I'm pretty sure there's no such thing as a 5th option year...though suppose you never know too with the new CBA coming this December (though not sure if any changes in that regard would come or not).

Weglarz...you may be right on him getting a 4th. Played less than 50 games this year and missed a good chunk at the beginning, not sure he'll qualifty for a 4th or not.

I respect those that put the lists out there, so I'm not criticizing, but I would have Elvis Araujo higher on my list.

Dillon Howard gets the attention being a high bonus, relatively high profile draft prospect, but I really don't think Araujo is any worse. Howard has a good, advanced delivery with very good arm speed, a good body and good athleticism, so I don't think that Howard is an overrated prospect, I just think that Araujo is underrated. Araujo's fastball is a really, really good pitch that comes from an excellent release point. Araujo is potentially a guy that can pitch to all four quandrants of the strike zone with his fastball and change eye levels with his curveball. He can pitch up and down well, excellent downward leverage which I think leads to swing and miss potential, which I believe is correlated with major league success. Curve needs to improve, as does command but he's got what you look for in teenage pitching prospects.

Just my opinion, but had Araujo been a JC pitching prospect (being 19) and in this last draft and given his injury history, I think he would have gone around 25th overall or so and conceivably could have gone higher. This guy is really talented. He's risky but let's not short change this guy.

I'm not all that impressed with what the upper levels of the Indians system has in terms of prospects, but I see Lindor, Araujo and Howard as potential impact talent at the major league level (that can be reasonably achieved). That's the strength of the system right now. A LONG ways off, but those guys are legit prospects.

OhioBaseball wrote:I respect those that put the lists out there, so I'm not criticizing, but I would have Elvis Araujo higher on my list.

Dillon Howard gets the attention being a high bonus, relatively high profile draft prospect, but I really don't think Araujo is any worse. Howard has a good, advanced delivery with very good arm speed, a good body and good athleticism, so I don't think that Howard is an overrated prospect, I just think that Araujo is underrated. Araujo's fastball is a really, really good pitch that comes from an excellent release point. Araujo is potentially a guy that can pitch to all four quandrants of the strike zone with his fastball and change eye levels with his curveball. He can pitch up and down well, excellent downward leverage which I think leads to swing and miss potential, which I believe is correlated with major league success. Curve needs to improve, as does command but he's got what you look for in teenage pitching prospects.

Just my opinion, but had Araujo been a JC pitching prospect (being 19) and in this last draft and given his injury history, I think he would have gone around 25th overall or so and conceivably could have gone higher. This guy is really talented. He's risky but let's not short change this guy.

I'm not all that impressed with what the upper levels of the Indians system has in terms of prospects, but I see Lindor, Araujo and Howard as potential impact talent at the major league level (that can be reasonably achieved). That's the strength of the system right now. A LONG ways off, but those guys are legit prospects.

would you put Araujo in your top 3? I have him 6th, which I thought was pretty high.

OhioBaseball wrote:I've held back on commenting on this, which can be rare for me, but Nick Weglarz has really let his body get away from him -- it's NOT just injuries. I remember seeing him as a 19 year old and the guy was quite impressive. He's always had a big body, but back then the guy was in good shape and looked like an impressive prospect. These days he's got a doughy body and looks like Phil Mickelson. He's 24 years old, too. At that age, if you want to be in shape you can be.

Agree with your impressions of Weglarz. To me, he's just a kid that doesn't work to get his body in shape and because of that he just gets hurt doing even routine drills ... I mean the guy can't even run the base paths without pulling up within a week of play. I've checked him off all my lists as even a prospect at this point. To me, it reflects on what he's got within him as lacking anything close to what is required of someone looking to make it in this league.

OhioBaseball wrote:I respect those that put the lists out there, so I'm not criticizing, but I would have Elvis Araujo higher on my list.

Dillon Howard gets the attention being a high bonus, relatively high profile draft prospect, but I really don't think Araujo is any worse. Howard has a good, advanced delivery with very good arm speed, a good body and good athleticism, so I don't think that Howard is an overrated prospect, I just think that Araujo is underrated. Araujo's fastball is a really, really good pitch that comes from an excellent release point. Araujo is potentially a guy that can pitch to all four quandrants of the strike zone with his fastball and change eye levels with his curveball. He can pitch up and down well, excellent downward leverage which I think leads to swing and miss potential, which I believe is correlated with major league success. Curve needs to improve, as does command but he's got what you look for in teenage pitching prospects.

Just my opinion, but had Araujo been a JC pitching prospect (being 19) and in this last draft and given his injury history, I think he would have gone around 25th overall or so and conceivably could have gone higher. This guy is really talented. He's risky but let's not short change this guy.

I'm not all that impressed with what the upper levels of the Indians system has in terms of prospects, but I see Lindor, Araujo and Howard as potential impact talent at the major league level (that can be reasonably achieved). That's the strength of the system right now. A LONG ways off, but those guys are legit prospects.

would you put Araujo in your top 3? I have him 6th, which I thought was pretty high.

Kind of tough for me to do this season, I base much of my stuff on statistical trends in addition to the scouting reports.

Frankly, with the promotions to the majors and trades of upper level prospects, it seems that most of the potential major league "plus" prospects would be those who have very little in the way of track records so far.

I haven't placed them in any kind of order yet, and frankly to do so will involve a lot of guessing on my part, but the batters of interest to me for a top 20 listing are Chun Chen, Alex Monsalve, Francisco Lindor, Tony Walters, Robel Garcia, Luigi Rodriguez, Tyler Holt, Beau Mills, Jesus Aguilar and Jake Lowery.

I left off a few guys others may be considering. Among those with higher profiles I left off Nick Weglarz, LeVon Washington, Ronny Rodriguez and Alex Lavisky. Without going into the specifics, I feel pretty confident none of these will pan out to be any more than fringe major league players.

But, frankly I hope the lower levels pan out, the upper levels seem to be a bit thin. I also have no idea how Dorssys Paulino, who I believe we signed for over $1 million, fits on the listing. Also, I believe we signed Anthony Santander for about $400K, so I imagine he could also be considered a legit top 20 in a rather weak system.

daingean wrote:Right now with Aguilar's play in Arizona which is a league for almost ready prospects, he has to be shooting up the list. Next year at AA should be a proving ground for him.

Agree here. AA is gonna be a big key to determine if Aguilar is a legit top spec. Want to see his defense some too. Atkins seemed to like it but man that's a big kid over at 1B.

The though the brass "thinks" he could become a quality; I believe he has even been described as potentially being an above avg. defensive 1B (HA!) to me this is just more of that dribble that you always see surrounding prospects in the lower levels. Unless they say from the get go this guy can play good defense, it usually means they are currently a bit of liability at the position and with Aguilars current play and size/speed/dex/etc.- to expect him to be anything better than a slighty below avg defender at 1st would be extremely optimistic IMO. He might not make errors but he won't make the big play either.

I imagine at one time there were execs spouting off about Hafners ability to man 1B at the ML level......Prolly not as much when he neared the majors.

OhioBaseball wrote:I respect those that put the lists out there, so I'm not criticizing, but I would have Elvis Araujo higher on my list.

Dillon Howard gets the attention being a high bonus, relatively high profile draft prospect, but I really don't think Araujo is any worse. Howard has a good, advanced delivery with very good arm speed, a good body and good athleticism, so I don't think that Howard is an overrated prospect, I just think that Araujo is underrated. Araujo's fastball is a really, really good pitch that comes from an excellent release point. Araujo is potentially a guy that can pitch to all four quandrants of the strike zone with his fastball and change eye levels with his curveball. He can pitch up and down well, excellent downward leverage which I think leads to swing and miss potential, which I believe is correlated with major league success. Curve needs to improve, as does command but he's got what you look for in teenage pitching prospects.

Just my opinion, but had Araujo been a JC pitching prospect (being 19) and in this last draft and given his injury history, I think he would have gone around 25th overall or so and conceivably could have gone higher. This guy is really talented. He's risky but let's not short change this guy.

I'm not all that impressed with what the upper levels of the Indians system has in terms of prospects, but I see Lindor, Araujo and Howard as potential impact talent at the major league level (that can be reasonably achieved). That's the strength of the system right now. A LONG ways off, but those guys are legit prospects.

would you put Araujo in your top 3? I have him 6th, which I thought was pretty high.

6 is a pretty good ranking. I wasnt criticizing rankings, just communicating that I think Araujo is very legit.

My top 10

1 - Francisco Lindor; I think he's got Jimmy Rollins potential, but is FAR from reaching it. Lots of physical development to go.2 - Elvis Araujo; This is a really high ranking b/c there's some risk here, but he's got front of the rotation upside. *Consistent* 92-95mph, excellent downhill leverage (6'7" and a high 3/4 slot is TOUGH to hit) and I think his delivery is good. Same age as Howard and succeeded in rookie ball.3 - Dillon Howard; I liken him to Matt Cain from a talent and physical perspective. Good delivery, should pitch well in low-A ball next year.4 - Scott Barnes; This is assuming the knee is OK. I have always liked him since we traded for him, but his delivery tends to be high effort and his body is not the durable type. He's deceptive and has some nice pitches, though. I kind of worry that he ends up a bullpen arm, which keeps Araujo and Howard ahead of him.5 - Hector Rondon; Love the way the fastball comes out of his hand. I know his breaking ball is below ML average, but he's got a tendency to throw fastballs by good hitters. Thought he had some projection left to him a couple years ago. Also could end up in the pen, but he's athletic, loose, quick-armed and pounds the strike zone.6 - CC Lee; I'm not blown away by his talent, but am by his stats. Outstanding K's and K/BB ratios last year. Could be the 2011 version of Pestano.7 - Ronnie Rodriguez; Tons of errors, too many K's and too few walks, but the guy skipped short-season ball and the amount of extra base hits the guy had was very impressive. I really like his swing. There are red flags, but hes too young to write off.8 - Austin Adams; His season in Akron was quietly pretty good. Short righties always get overlooked, but he does just what a pitching coach should tell him to do which is utilize a high 3/4 slot that helps him with downward leverage. He's a nice under the radar prospect.9 - Tony Wolters; A little too much of a slap-hitter in his debut for me, but I still think he's a prospect. I worry about all the K's and lack of power, but hopefully that's just b/c his hand wasn't fully healed.10 - Jesus Aguilar; Can't ignore the extra base hits, but the K's worry me. He's not physically projectable, but his 2011 season warrants a spot in the top 10.

My guy to watch next year is Eric Haase. He's undersized, but he's got good tools and I think is a guy that profiles as an under-exposed cold weather player. Talent wise, I don't think he's a first round talent but I fully support the 580k the Indians invested in him. Very good athlete. I forget the poster that made the comp, but I think it was really astute -- Craig Biggio. Biggio was extremely skilled and was a true baseball player, and it's very unlikely Haase duplicates his career, but from a physical and talent perspective -- a good comp. Also like Jake Sisco if the Indians pitching coaches can develop his projection.

Developing existing talent, the draft and int'l free agents have an elevated importance to the Indians this year and next. Unlike other years where the farm system was aided by trading major league talent for prospects, the Indians (hopefully) won't have that option in 2012 and 2013. When watching prospects this summer, I was impressed by the high school talents that will be available in June, a few of which I believe would be the Indians #1 prospect at this time next year but none of those may be available at 15th overall.

I don't think this is a strong system by any means and I tend to be biased toward upside talent. This list could look really bad 5 years from now, but that's just the way it is!

My sense is LeVon Washington, Alex Lavisky and Giovanny Urshela should all start 2012 again at low A in Lake City. They need to establish they can be effective there before they get bumped up. Washington and Lavisky, in particular, are effectively on notice that their status as prospects is in jeopardy. These guys have just got to hit better. They will get sliced and diced in the Carolina League unless they get their acts together.

Likewise, Luigi Rodriguez, Bryson Myles, Carlos Moncrief, Jordan Smith, Jake Lowery and Alex Monsalve have leapfrogged Washington, Urshela and Lavisky and most or all of them can proceed to high A to start 2012. Their stars are shining brighter.

On question for Tony or anyone who saw MV play: are guys like Todd Hankins and Evan Frazar legit prospects? On paper they look promising, but I don't see where on earth that can get a starting position at a full-season A ball team in 2012. Do they just hang out in extended spring training and suit up for MV for another season?

elrod enchilada wrote:My sense is LeVon Washington, Alex Lavisky and Giovanny Urshela should all start 2012 again at low A in Lake City. They need to establish they can be effective there before they get bumped up. Washington and Lavisky, in particular, are effectively on notice that their status as prospects is in jeopardy. These guys have just got to hit better. They will get sliced and diced in the Carolina League unless they get their acts together.

Likewise, Luigi Rodriguez, Bryson Myles, Carlos Moncrief, Jordan Smith, Jake Lowery and Alex Monsalve have leapfrogged Washington, Urshela and Lavisky and most or all of them can proceed to high A to start 2012. Their stars are shining brighter.

On question for Tony or anyone who saw MV play: are guys like Todd Hankins and Evan Frazar legit prospects? On paper they look promising, but I don't see where on earth that can get a starting position at a full-season A ball team in 2012. Do they just hang out in extended spring training and suit up for MV for another season?

I think Frazar could end up a pretty legit prospect - but we will see. Think he makes the Kinston club as a hybrid type starter like Cannon was though he may spend some time in EST - he will be on a full time ball club by May,

OhioBaseball wrote:I respect those that put the lists out there, so I'm not criticizing, but I would have Elvis Araujo higher on my list.

Dillon Howard gets the attention being a high bonus, relatively high profile draft prospect, but I really don't think Araujo is any worse. Howard has a good, advanced delivery with very good arm speed, a good body and good athleticism, so I don't think that Howard is an overrated prospect, I just think that Araujo is underrated. Araujo's fastball is a really, really good pitch that comes from an excellent release point. Araujo is potentially a guy that can pitch to all four quandrants of the strike zone with his fastball and change eye levels with his curveball. He can pitch up and down well, excellent downward leverage which I think leads to swing and miss potential, which I believe is correlated with major league success. Curve needs to improve, as does command but he's got what you look for in teenage pitching prospects.

Just my opinion, but had Araujo been a JC pitching prospect (being 19) and in this last draft and given his injury history, I think he would have gone around 25th overall or so and conceivably could have gone higher. This guy is really talented. He's risky but let's not short change this guy.

I'm not all that impressed with what the upper levels of the Indians system has in terms of prospects, but I see Lindor, Araujo and Howard as potential impact talent at the major league level (that can be reasonably achieved). That's the strength of the system right now. A LONG ways off, but those guys are legit prospects.

would you put Araujo in your top 3? I have him 6th, which I thought was pretty high.

6 is a pretty good ranking. I wasnt criticizing rankings, just communicating that I think Araujo is very legit.

My top 10

1 - Francisco Lindor; I think he's got Jimmy Rollins potential, but is FAR from reaching it. Lots of physical development to go.2 - Elvis Araujo; This is a really high ranking b/c there's some risk here, but he's got front of the rotation upside. *Consistent* 92-95mph, excellent downhill leverage (6'7" and a high 3/4 slot is TOUGH to hit) and I think his delivery is good. Same age as Howard and succeeded in rookie ball.3 - Dillon Howard; I liken him to Matt Cain from a talent and physical perspective. Good delivery, should pitch well in low-A ball next year.4 - Scott Barnes; This is assuming the knee is OK. I have always liked him since we traded for him, but his delivery tends to be high effort and his body is not the durable type. He's deceptive and has some nice pitches, though. I kind of worry that he ends up a bullpen arm, which keeps Araujo and Howard ahead of him.5 - Hector Rondon; Love the way the fastball comes out of his hand. I know his breaking ball is below ML average, but he's got a tendency to throw fastballs by good hitters. Thought he had some projection left to him a couple years ago. Also could end up in the pen, but he's athletic, loose, quick-armed and pounds the strike zone.6 - CC Lee; I'm not blown away by his talent, but am by his stats. Outstanding K's and K/BB ratios last year. Could be the 2011 version of Pestano.7 - Ronnie Rodriguez; Tons of errors, too many K's and too few walks, but the guy skipped short-season ball and the amount of extra base hits the guy had was very impressive. I really like his swing. There are red flags, but hes too young to write off.8 - Austin Adams; His season in Akron was quietly pretty good. Short righties always get overlooked, but he does just what a pitching coach should tell him to do which is utilize a high 3/4 slot that helps him with downward leverage. He's a nice under the radar prospect.9 - Tony Wolters; A little too much of a slap-hitter in his debut for me, but I still think he's a prospect. I worry about all the K's and lack of power, but hopefully that's just b/c his hand wasn't fully healed.10 - Jesus Aguilar; Can't ignore the extra base hits, but the K's worry me. He's not physically projectable, but his 2011 season warrants a spot in the top 10.

My guy to watch next year is Eric Haase. He's undersized, but he's got good tools and I think is a guy that profiles as an under-exposed cold weather player. Talent wise, I don't think he's a first round talent but I fully support the 580k the Indians invested in him. Very good athlete. I forget the poster that made the comp, but I think it was really astute -- Craig Biggio. Biggio was extremely skilled and was a true baseball player, and it's very unlikely Haase duplicates his career, but from a physical and talent perspective -- a good comp. Also like Jake Sisco if the Indians pitching coaches can develop his projection.

Developing existing talent, the draft and int'l free agents have an elevated importance to the Indians this year and next. Unlike other years where the farm system was aided by trading major league talent for prospects, the Indians (hopefully) won't have that option in 2012 and 2013. When watching prospects this summer, I was impressed by the high school talents that will be available in June, a few of which I believe would be the Indians #1 prospect at this time next year but none of those may be available at 15th overall.

I don't think this is a strong system by any means and I tend to be biased toward upside talent. This list could look really bad 5 years from now, but that's just the way it is!

I was the Haase guy, loved that he is a cold weather, potential 5 tool type of guy. He is going to be in the teens on my list, but to me he is a huge helium guy for next year

-Projecting Araujo (2) that high tends to 'courageous'. Time and work ethic will tell his story going forward. His progress will definitely be watched going forward

-w/r to Eric Haase: Biggio is a very good comp. Aspiring to Biggio's career would be a superb result.. Haase has the tools to become an exceptional catcher. Very good/quick feet that he sets very well. strong arm..accuracy is a ??. His progress in 2012 will be against one of the strongest positions in the Cleveland Indians farm system.

-CC Lee: His stuff plays well in the minor leagues. IDK if the same degree/level of success will be achievable at the ML Level..

-Howard/Rondon/Adams/Barnes: Three of these four SP's are at or above AA ball. Look for Howard to follow the path of the now departed Alex White and Drew Pomerance..i.e. fast tracked to Zebulon (sounds weird saying that).

The depth of the farm system will definitely come to the forefront during the 2012 season. With numerous graduations and trades, the upper levels of the system are somewhat depleted. This season will be HUGE in determining who within the Indians system will be "stepping up to the plate" You've mentioned Eric Haase as a dark horse breakout guy. For 2012, and noted in an earlier posting for 2011, I can see Kyle "Bells" Bellows really begin to show that he can hit, hit for both power (SLG) and average (BA), get on base regularly (OBP) and is more than just a an already well established glove man...

In terms of position prospects, certainly A ball is where most the promise lies. I think Zebulon could be a very interesting team, and if it isn't, it will be because the Tribe brass elected to put more prospects in Lake County.

None of those guys may become a star, but each has a legit shot to spend time in the major leagues. At least two or three or four of them will play (again, in the case of three of them) in the bigs and one or two of them might actually have value. There have been many years in Tribe history we would have killed to have this sort of talent on our AAA roster.

AA is not as strong but does (probably) have:Kyle BellowsJesus AguilarRoberto PerezTyler HoltBo GreenwellJordan Henry

Granted, none of these AA guys except Aguilar make a top 10 list, or maybe even top 20 list, for the organization, but players with less stature at the same point in their careers have gone on to the bigs and stuck around a while.

GeronimoSon wrote:-Howard/Rondon/Adams/Barnes: Three of these four SP's are at or above AA ball. Look for Howard to follow the path of the now departed Alex White and Drew Pomerance..i.e. fast tracked to Zebulon (sounds weird saying that).

I'm not so sure wabout Howard there. Like him a lot, but kid is a high schooler whereas White and Pom were advanced college arms. I would be surprised if Howard was fast tracked.

elrod enchilada wrote:In terms of position prospects, certainly A ball is where most the promise lies. I think Zebulon could be a very interesting team, and if it isn't, it will be because the Tribe brass elected to put more prospects in Lake County.

None of those guys may become a star, but each has a legit shot to spend time in the major leagues. At least two or three or four of them will play (again, in the case of three of them) in the bigs and one or two of them might actually have value. There have been many years in Tribe history we would have killed to have this sort of talent on our AAA roster.

AA is not as strong but does (probably) have:Kyle BellowsJesus AguilarRoberto PerezTyler HoltBo GreenwellJordan Henry

Granted, none of these AA guys except Aguilar make a top 10 list, or maybe even top 20 list, for the organization, but players with less stature at the same point in their careers have gone on to the bigs and stuck around a while.

Hi ee,

There is mostly finge talent above A+ IMO. Some might have some ML value to the Indians but little trade or impact value that isn't already on the 40. AA is especially weak with no discernable above average potential except for Aguilar as you mentioned. But it is just a cycle where the Indians have already moved all the prospects that are likely to be above average ML players already. They do have some nice replacement players at AAA that have some potential development. Personally, I would not overlook Thomas Neal among those but, other than the very injury prone, Nick Weglarz is probably the only true potential impact talent. It is not a bad mix to get the Indians to 2014 when they have to replace serious talent within this organization. The good news is the depth of MOR/BOR replacement pitchers at the upper levels may be the best in baseball. That, combined with the solid core of replacement position players, is probably the best thing for an organization with the Indians' financials.

The ability to perform well at or above A+ ball along with the "eye test" (what you see that a player does that doesn't necessarily show up in the box score) gives hope that there are impact players in the Indians system that WILL impact the 2012 & 2013 seasons.

Example: Jose Constanza.. in over 800 AB's at AA, he was a "good" .280/.360/.700 OF'er who could steal a base, score runs and get a few RBI's.. The Indians thought so little of his ability to "impact" the ML's, he was granted free agency and was later picked up by the Braves.. His performance improve at AAA, both for the Indians in Columbus, but also for Gwinnett for the Braves.. The Braves, desperate for anyone that could get on base and preferably a lead off hitter promoted non-prospect Jose Contanza to the parent club.. His line with the Braves has been pretty impressive..

While I cannot predict who it is in the Indians system that is the "next" Jose Constanza, the possibility is that he exists.. If given a chance to play every day, it could be Cord Phelps or Tim Fedroff.. or Thomas Neal (of course, for Cord Phelps to get "every day" at bats, something else would have to go seriously wrong)...

GeronimoSon wrote:-Howard/Rondon/Adams/Barnes: Three of these four SP's are at or above AA ball. Look for Howard to follow the path of the now departed Alex White and Drew Pomerance..i.e. fast tracked to Zebulon (sounds weird saying that).

I'm not so sure wabout Howard there. Like him a lot, but kid is a high schooler whereas White and Pom were advanced college arms. I would be surprised if Howard was fast tracked.

Yeah, have to agree with Herm here. The highest level Howard will start at next season is Low-A Lake County.....and there is a strong possibility he opens in extended spring training and does not go to Lake County until May or June to control his workload....or even just hold him until Mahoning Valley's season starts. I'd put odds on him opening at Lake County....though EST and MV are certainly other options.

GeronimoSon wrote:-Howard/Rondon/Adams/Barnes: Three of these four SP's are at or above AA ball. Look for Howard to follow the path of the now departed Alex White and Drew Pomerance..i.e. fast tracked to Zebulon (sounds weird saying that).

I'm not so sure wabout Howard there. Like him a lot, but kid is a high schooler whereas White and Pom were advanced college arms. I would be surprised if Howard was fast tracked.

Yeah, have to agree with Herm here. The highest level Howard will start at next season is Low-A Lake County.....and there is a strong possibility he opens in extended spring training and does not go to Lake County until May or June to control his workload....or even just hold him until Mahoning Valley's season starts. I'd put odds on him opening at Lake County....though EST and MV are certainly other options.

I have said it before I think he will move fast for a high school arm, which is relative when you compare to the finished college arms of the past few years

GeronimoSon wrote:-Howard/Rondon/Adams/Barnes: Three of these four SP's are at or above AA ball. Look for Howard to follow the path of the now departed Alex White and Drew Pomerance..i.e. fast tracked to Zebulon (sounds weird saying that).

I'm not so sure wabout Howard there. Like him a lot, but kid is a high schooler whereas White and Pom were advanced college arms. I would be surprised if Howard was fast tracked.

Yeah, have to agree with Herm here. The highest level Howard will start at next season is Low-A Lake County.....and there is a strong possibility he opens in extended spring training and does not go to Lake County until May or June to control his workload....or even just hold him until Mahoning Valley's season starts. I'd put odds on him opening at Lake County....though EST and MV are certainly other options.

I have said it before I think he will move fast for a high school arm, which is relative when you compare to the finished college arms of the past few years

Erring on the side of safety would be the wise move.. While it's generally a true statement that prep draftees need the development time in short season & the lower minors, that usually applies to kids who are just beginning to physically mature into adults.. In Dillon Howard's case, this is a man child. His physical development is pretty advanced for a kid his age.. Starting at low A Lake County would keep him challenged. If he can hold his own at Lake County, then moving him to Zebulon ( I just like saying Zebulon) before seasons end would be a helluva jump for this talented young man..

I saw this ranking of Tribe prospects from Mayo. It appears he did this at the end of the season. However, he has not included any of the 2011 draft prospects in his top 10 Indians prospects ranking. Thought it was interesting nonetheless. I don't understand his eligibility rules as he has Kipnis #1 but has not included Chiz. The rest of the guys on the list are prospects though. He seemed pretty high on Neal.

toledobuck wrote:I saw this ranking of Tribe prospects from Mayo. It appears he did this at the end of the season. However, he has not included any of the 2011 draft prospects in his top 10 Indians prospects ranking. Thought it was interesting nonetheless. I don't understand his eligibility rules as he has Kipnis #1 but has not included Chiz. The rest of the guys on the list are prospects though. He seemed pretty high on Neal.

Neal being highly projected shouldn't be a surprise.. the kid has excellent bat speed, and generates power that could rival Jesus Aguilar or Nick Weglarz (when/if ever healthy) and, other than is "close/tight" situations, a patient and professional approach at the plate.. He has earned his promotions while with the SF Giants and is a much more advanced slugger than either Weglarz or Aguilar. In short, he could end up wearing Chief Wahoo on his sleeve at the corner of Ontario and Carnegie for a LONG TIME...

BA said, prior to the start of the 2011 season:

"Neal is more athletic than most 6-foot-2, 225-pounders. His combination of speed, power, arm strength and surprising ability to cover ground in either outfield corner draws comparisons to Jermaine Dye. ... He has the bat speed to handle quality fastballs, but gets a little overeager in RBI situations. ... Coaches love his hustle. ... There's a good chance he'll be introduced to the big leagues at some point this year with a chance to establish himself as an everyday player in 2012."

I've also seen comps to Bobby Bonilla as well.. He made it inside my top ten Indians prospects.. He is a serious prospect.. that's currently flying under the radar.. and, he's right handed...

martyinnewyork wrote:Mayo's list is puzzling. Neal at #2 and Washington at #3? WTF?

Mayo does a nice job from a national perspective giving a broad scope of each team....but no disrespect but I think he does not have a clear handle on the Indians or other farm systems. Again, he knows them all from a general perspective and who the top few guys are....which is tons more than I know....but this is the difference between a national person who covers all the teams versus maybe someone who covers just one team and knows the system inside and out. I really think his listing is way off base.....almost like it was written in April or May.

toledobuck wrote:I saw this ranking of Tribe prospects from Mayo. It appears he did this at the end of the season. However, he has not included any of the 2011 draft prospects in his top 10 Indians prospects ranking. Thought it was interesting nonetheless. I don't understand his eligibility rules as he has Kipnis #1 but has not included Chiz. The rest of the guys on the list are prospects though. He seemed pretty high on Neal.

Neal being highly projected shouldn't be a surprise.. the kid has excellent bat speed, and generates power that could rival Jesus Aguilar or Nick Weglarz (when/if ever healthy) and, other than is "close/tight" situations, a patient and professional approach at the plate.. He has earned his promotions while with the SF Giants and is a much more advanced slugger than either Weglarz or Aguilar. In short, he could end up wearing Chief Wahoo on his sleeve at the corner of Ontario and Carnegie for a LONG TIME...

BA said, prior to the start of the 2011 season:

"Neal is more athletic than most 6-foot-2, 225-pounders. His combination of speed, power, arm strength and surprising ability to cover ground in either outfield corner draws comparisons to Jermaine Dye. ... He has the bat speed to handle quality fastballs, but gets a little overeager in RBI situations. ... Coaches love his hustle. ... There's a good chance he'll be introduced to the big leagues at some point this year with a chance to establish himself as an everyday player in 2012."

I've also seen comps to Bobby Bonilla as well.. He made it inside my top ten Indians prospects.. He is a serious prospect.. that's currently flying under the radar.. and, he's right handed...

Gonna disagree on this. I like Neal, and I think it was unfortunate he was limited to 10 games the rest of the season after being acquired. But there is no way he has power anywhere close to Dye/Bonilla or even Aguilar/Weglarz. Have seen him play twice and from talking to people internally with the Indians and externally with other teams I just don't get the feel that people think he is a big power guy at all. I liken him a lot more to a Ben Francisco type than Weglarz/Aguilar/Bonilla/Dye etc.

toledobuck wrote:I saw this ranking of Tribe prospects from Mayo. It appears he did this at the end of the season. However, he has not included any of the 2011 draft prospects in his top 10 Indians prospects ranking. Thought it was interesting nonetheless. I don't understand his eligibility rules as he has Kipnis #1 but has not included Chiz. The rest of the guys on the list are prospects though. He seemed pretty high on Neal.

I agree, very puzzling on the inclusion of Kipnis. On the link it states the eligibility rules:

"To be eligible for a list, a player must have rookie eligibility. To qualify for rookie status, a player must not have exceeded 130 at-bats or 50 innings pitched in the Major Leagues, or accumulated more than 45 days on the active roster of a Major League club or clubs during the 25-player limit period, excluding time on the disabled list or in military service."

And Kipnis had 136 at-bats....which the first page clearly shows. Alomst like Mayo made the list during the season and didn't want to scrap his Kipnis inclusion/writeup so left him in there.

Not sure about Neal that high either. Does have some nice tools, but 2 hurt years...and a shoulder as one of them. Worry if his power will return.

A.Zajac wrote:Neal #2? Is he nuts? I like Neal, but not THAT much.. Kipnis, from my understanding, isn't even eligible anymore. While I'm still formulating my list, I know mine will look quite different.

Ya think yours will look different?.. no kidding.. you might actually have some insight into knowing what the Indians prospects can actually do....