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Thanks Deino for the pics. No doubt from the direction and location of the sensor, it has something to do with satellites, and GPS is the likely system. The panels around the area of J-10 06 and 03 are greenish and different from the all yellow in previous prototypes.

Can't say these planes are prototypes. Red numbers are generally temporary factory applied numbers, used to designate planes within a production batch. The J-10s heading to the 3rd Division didn't seem to have the sensor fairing, so I guess this is a new development.

The J-10 does not interest me for Zhuhai and I expected them not to show it either. What's more important is whatever the avionics they will display this time, because that gives you a far better gauge of the state of the Chinese aviation industry.

But in future argument at least we know the J-10 will not be soon marketed overseas except Pakistan whose president & Air chief already have been briefed about J10, the main attracting point this year will be the sub-systems, hopeful more information on radar engine, missile etc will be available.

J10, Google Earth PICS

Can't say these planes are prototypes. Red numbers are generally temporary factory applied numbers, used to designate planes within a production batch. The J-10s heading to the 3rd Division didn't seem to have the sensor fairing, so I guess this is a new development.

I agree with You as those asrn't prototypes ! For my opinion they are just factory numbered machines during a test flight prior to painting .... would be interesting what number they will get !

I was just comparing some of the 3. Division birds and at least the J-10B which was shown very close has this feature already as do the J-10A's on the lineup !

Maybe they are for a second regiment within the 3. Division or just later amchines for the first regiment .... or the single seaters are for another division as all their numbers are errased !

Cheers, Deino

Last edited by Deino; 14th October 2008 at 11:53.

...

He was my North, my South, my East and West,
My working week and my Sunday rest,
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
For nothing now can ever come to any good.
-------------------------------------------------
W.H.Auden (1945)

He was my North, my South, my East and West,
My working week and my Sunday rest,
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
For nothing now can ever come to any good.
-------------------------------------------------
W.H.Auden (1945)

He was my North, my South, my East and West,
My working week and my Sunday rest,
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
For nothing now can ever come to any good.
-------------------------------------------------
W.H.Auden (1945)

China’s two major fighter aircraft manufacturers, Shenyang Aircraft Industry Co. (SAC) and Chengdu Aircraft Industry Co. (CAC), are both working on advanced 4th generation fighter designs that could enter the PLAAF service as early as 2015. While Shenyang has been engaged in a brand new F/A-22-class stealth fighter design known as J-12, Chengdu has been focusing its development effort on an enlarged twin-engine stealth version of its J-10 fighter possibly designated J-13. Both development projects are believed to have benefited from Russian aviation and weapon technologies.

SHENYANG J-12 PROGRAMME

The Chinese aviation industry began the preliminary research for China’s 4th generation fighter programme in the mid-1990s. In 1998 the U.S. Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI) reported that an advanced F/A-22-class twin-engine stealth fighter known as J-12 was under development at Shenyang. Later in 2003 an Internet source photo revealed a fighter mockup for wind tunnel test which may be linked to the J-12 project. As more details of the fighter began to emerge, it was understood that the fighter will also be fitted with an internal weapon bay and possibly active phased array radar.

Considering China’s track record in combat aircraft development, a project like the J-12 may prove challenging. It will involves technology advancement in a number of fields including materials, high-performance aviation engine, electronics, flight control software, and stealth technologies. A project of this scale will also require huge amount of investment and considerable knowledge of complex project and manufacturing management. While China may be able to benefit from some “off-the-shelf” dual-use technologies available in the commercial market, it will almost definitely seek assistance from its traditional military technology suppliers such as Russia and Israel. However, none of these two countries possess the experience of developing an advance fighter of this class.

Russian Sukhoi Company (JSC), which has developed close ties with Shenyang over the licensed co-production of its Su-27SK fighter as J-11, has been reportedly working with Shenyang in developing the next-generation fighter technology and sub-systems. Although Russia has yet been able to develop an operational stealth fighter, the J-12 project may benefit from its technologies in two particular areas: thrust vectoring engine and stealth design. China may also seek potential partners from Russia, Israel and Europe to co-develop avionics and weapon suites for its 4th-generation fighter aircraft.

Following the successful development of the J-10 fighter, Chengdu and its subordinated 611 Aircraft Design Institute began to work on an enlarged twin-engine version of the J-10 to compete with Shenyang’s J-12 project for the PLAAF’s 4th generation fighter programme. The new fighter, which was reportedly designated J-13, inherited the J-10’s canard delta design and resembles the Russian Mikoyan MiG MFI (Project 1.44) fifth-generation fighter demonstrator in many aspects. The J-13 design is less radical in terms of design and technology compared to the Shenyang J-12, and therefore may stand a better chance of becoming successful.

It was reported that Russian MAPO-MIG has been working with Chengdu since the late 1990s to develop a new generation fighter based on the J-10 design. The J-13 may be powered by two improved AL-41 turbofan engines with thrust-vectoring nozzles and possibly supersonic cruise capability too, giving a maximum take-off weight of 20t. If this is proven to be true, the J-13 will be a high-performance heavyweight fighter superior to the European EF-2000 Typhoon and French Rafale, though it may not be as capable as the F/A-22 Raptor

The chinese are working on their own next generation engine design and have been for some time, I forget the details, but a mock-up of the compressor stage was shown at an airshow some time ago. If I remember correctly the designation is something with 2000 in it- somebody will remember more than me. Anyway the J-12/13 programme is a long way of- probably a decade before we see a flying plane. In the meantime I would expect to see increasingly advanced J-10 variants.

no, right now it's going to be pretty rough, because they really don't have a 5th generation engine anywhere near ready. And the Russian option isn't that much better. Unless, you really think AL-41F1A is a 5th generation engine and I assure you that no PLA person believes in that. And as we saw with WS-10A, the engine came out a lot later than J-10 did. So, for any 5th generation plane, it will likely be fitting with WS-10 series first imo.

Pic has been around but no text about its guidance. Can you please provide some link to official publications where the guidance methods you mention are stated?

This pic was scanned from the back cover of a Chinese military magazine for enthusiasts. No more info about the pic and the guided bomb itself on the mag, a pic only. The guidance methods I mentioned are from Chinese forum. I think the parameters of the bomb will be released soon, because this bomb is for export market.

no, right now it's going to be pretty rough, because they really don't have a 5th generation engine anywhere near ready. And the Russian option isn't that much better. Unless, you really think AL-41F1A is a 5th generation engine and I assure you that no PLA person believes in that. And as we saw with WS-10A, the engine came out a lot later than J-10 did. So, for any 5th generation plane, it will likely be fitting with WS-10 series first imo.

I have to agree with that, I think what we will see is what you could call a fith gen airframe, or an airframe with 5th gen features (I am not realy comfortable with the idea of forcing aircraft in generational categories) with WS-10A series engines, or possibly Kunlun.