If Rose is everyone’s MVP, why isn’t Westbrook in the conversation?

Let me just say this up front: I think Kevin Durant is the Thunder’s MVP. He’s quietly had a terrific season, his team is better than last year and his value to the Thunder on both ends often gets overlooked.

And let me say this too: If I were an MVP voter, I’d pick Derrick Rose over Russell Westbrook. The award has “valuable” in it for a reason and head-to-head against Westbrook, I think Rose fits that criteria better than most. As Larry David might say, having said that…

The question has to at least be asked, especially by a Thunder inclined person: If Rose is the undisputed leader for the award, why isn’t Westbrook at least in the conversation?

The breaking point for me in wanting to write this came today when SportsCenter flashed this graphic. Comparing Rose’s season to Magic’s incredible 1986-87 season? And then saying nobody has dominated the position like Magic since Rose this year? (Nevermind that the numbers aren’t really all that similar.)

For comparison:

Derrick Rose: 24.9 points per game, 7.8 assists per game, 44.0 percent from the field, 34.0 percent from 3, 1.1 steals per game

And for good measure, Westbrook grabs 4.6 rebounds a game compared to 4.2 for Rose and on top of that, Westbrook’s PER is 23.60 to Rose’s 23.34. In the end, I think we’d all agree those numbers are pretty similar. (At least more similar than Magic Johnson’s and Rose’s.) Similar enough at least to maybe put Westbrook in the same conversation as Rose. Similar enough to prevent people from saying things like, “Derrick Rose is dominating the PG position unlike anyone since Magic Johnson.” Evidently not.

But that’s the thing — Rose has hype. Loads of it. Every Bulls highlight, every time Rose’s name is mention whoever is talking says, “He could be the MVP!” It’s almost like subtle propaganda. There are graphics putting his name next to Magic’s, campaigns for his candidacy and even Rose himself says he thinks he deserves it. Really at this point, there’s no stopping it. It’s gotten to the level where if you want to go against it and vote for Dwight Howard or Dirk Nowitzki, people will think you’re crazy. You’ll be seen as the guy that’s just trying to be different to gain attention. The pick is Rose. It’s been decided and if you don’t want to get on the train, prepare to be called out.

Again, it’s not like I wouldn’t pick Rose myself. I’m just saying, if Rose is having such a legendary season and is far and away the MVP, why isn’t Westbrook at least being mentioned? I know the reasons people will say. Westbrook has Durant. Rose’s team is better. Rose carried his team through injury. True, true and true. But don’t ignore that Rose has the safety blanket of the league’s best defense and the Thunder aren’t a bad team. Plus it’s a small sample, but the four games Kevin Durant has missed this year, the Thunder are 3-1 and that’s because of Westbrook.

Plus, look at Rose’s own resume. It’s not like it’s entirely clean. He’s the best offensive player in the 13th best offensive team and the worst defender (in terms of plus-minus) on the league’s best defensive team. So while Westbrook has Durant, Rose also has the luxury of the NBA’s top defense. The Bulls have won a lot of games scoring in the 80s and that’s not just because of Rose. It’s because of Tom Thibodeau and the outstanding defensive system the Bulls deploy.

To go with that point, LeBron James has still be part of the MVP conversation for most of this season and he’s playing with Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh. Same goes for Kobe Bryant playing with Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom. Since when is playing with another good player supposed to hurt your MVPness? That’s the reality though.

I’m a realist, I understand why Westbrook isn’t in the conversation. Heck, the first sentence I typed in this thing was about how Westbrook isn’t even the MVP of his own team. But while this hype train rolls on full steam ahead for Rose, I can’t help but wonder why Russell Westbrook isn’t at least attached somewhere near the back.

A lot comes down to the dreaded “M-word” for OKC. Market. Rose plays in one of basketball’s charter cities, the place that had Jordan and Pippen, the place with six rings and a whole lot of people to go with it. Westbrook plays in little ‘ol Oklahoma City. The Thunder have a pretty solid national following, but that’s largely because of Durant. The fact Westbrook was picked as an All-Star this season is sort of a minor miracle in itself. Clark Matthews made the point on Twitter and it’s hard to disagree: swap Rose and Westbrook’s places and more than likely Russ is the leading MVP candidate.

I know why Westbrook isn’t in the running. I understand all the reasons. Team, role, status, market — I get all of that. I even get Rose’s value to his team is heavier than Westbrook’s, though it’s not near as large as gap as some think. (You really think this team is 45-24 in the West if Eric Maynor is starting those 69 games?) But what I just don’t get is how people can fawn and drool over Rose night after night when he puts up something like 27 points on 11-24 shooting and five assists, when that’s kind of a ho-hum night for Westbrook these days. That’s what I don’t get.

And that’s why I just wasted 900 words trying to make a case for him when there’s really no point. The race is over and Westbrook never had a chance.

Kobe is ahead of KD because of a few things. First, KD has had a relatively disappointing season. He seems to have taken a small step back from last year, or at least stagnated.

Second, Kobe's better. Don't just look at the stats. Kobe's unquestionably the best player on a better team. He's the primary scorer and playmaker. His numbers haven't been as ridiculous as in the past, but he still routinely draws double teams and is terrific at capitalizing on it. He's also a vastly superior defender, something else that isn't reflected in the numbers. I like KD much more than Kobe, but Kobe's every bit of an MVP as anyone else in the NBA.

" He’s the best offensive player in the 13th best offensive team and the worst defender (in terms of plus-minus) on the league’s best defensive team. " Yeah...that's why you don't just look at plus-minus. Have you ever even watched Carlos Boozer play basketball? My goodness. I mean I know Rose isn't a very good defender, but come on. Booz is bad bad bad, whereas Rose is actually become kinda decent. I know you're trying to make a case for your guy here, I love Russ too, but to suggest that Rose is a worse defender than the complete liability that is Carlos Boozer is absolutely ridiculous. I'll go even further. Despite being quite capable of being a better defender than Rose, Westbrook really hasn't been all year. Honestly, if we're going on effort, I'd say Rose has him beat at that end. I'm sure if Russ had a great coach like Thibs, this would change, but yeah...Russ has been very disappointing on D this year after a very stellar season.

I also don't understand how so many people seem to think Rose winning would be a huge injustice. Are you kidding me? The MVP race is obviously up in the air and only the biggest homers would say Rose isn't in the conversation. He absolutely deserves it. Others (such as Dwight, Kobe, and Lebron) may deserve it more, but there's no reason to be this upset about it. Sure, the Bulls D has been terrific, but you need someone to make plays when it matters to win this many games. In nearly every game, this has been Derrick Rose. I know the media have latched on and all but handed the award to him by this point, which is annoying given how close it is this year, but y'all need to watch more Bulls game. He has been playing at an MVP level, coaches and players agree, even if John Hollinger's fancy advanced statistics don't.

dream catcher is like most Rose for MVP supporters - the use of superlatives like "he has a great feel for the game" in lieu of actual evidence that he deserves the award and is better than someone like Dwight (he isn't). This MVP race feels just like the Iverson race. People said the same things about Iverson in the face of numbers that said he wasn't anywhere close to being the best player in the league.

The biggest difference between Westbrook and Rose is turnovers. A Westbrook possession ends in a turnover 2% more of the time. That's a significant amount.

Rose is better than Westbrook, but this comparison is a good one to illustrate how much better someone like Dwight Howard is than Rose.

@f5alconAll ive been able to find is him saying before the season 'why can't I be mvp.'..which sounds more like a challenge to himself, probably RW's 'why not' attitude rubbing off on him during the summer.

hmm..well I didn't read that quote. Maybe Diva was the wrong word. But would you agree that overall he's not as annoying as other superstars are? I don't see him flopping a lot or whining about calls and so on.

@GlennPThunderUpYes and no. We can debate about anything until we both are blue in the face, but it doesn't mean both our opinions are equally valid. I could make an argument that James Harden means more to his team than Derrick Rose. It wouldn't be a good argument, but I don't have to listen to dissenting opinion either. Ultimately, I would still be wrong, even if I don't give up the debate.

That's how it feels with Rose. There isn't any concrete measure by which he is the MVP. He's not the best at anything, and not good enough all around to say that he makes up for not being the best at any one thing. Obviously people are making arguments for him until they are blue in the face, but the only way they keep talking is by ignoring anyone who thinks otherwise.

If RW learns to dish instead of forcing shots his scoring field goal percentage and assist will go up. He is not a natural point guard but once he does this he will take his game and the team to the next level. Have the Thunder looked at taking a gamble on Da'Sean Butler for future SF coming off the bench.

innocent bystander :there’s something about Rose’s pretty drives to the basket that creates a hypnotic effect on some people, causing them to lose their ability to think clearly… smh

it’s not just that, its his feel for the game, his leadership qualities, and his ability to take over a game. He is a superstar, just like KD and I wouldn’t be surprised if he is the next big thing ala Kobe.

Do you honestly watch enough Bulls games to tout Rose's feel for the game and leadership qualities? Seems like this is just regurgitation of what the media has been brainwashing us with.

Jax Raging Bile Duct :Trying to get a hype-driven demographic to consider being objective in their opinion is a recipe for high blood pressure. When it comes to the NBA MVP, I try to avoid such a job. I do my best to save it for politics where my vote matters and the outcome actually affects the world around me.

hey, if it weren't for heated arguments about essentially unimportant things... sports blogs would have no reason to exist;)

innocent bystander :there’s something about Rose’s pretty drives to the basket that creates a hypnotic effect on some people, causing them to lose their ability to think clearly… smh

it’s not just that, its his feel for the game, his leadership qualities, and his ability to take over a game. He is a superstar, just like KD and I wouldn’t be surprised if he is the next big thing ala Kobe.

Rose is a great player, but he's only "showing leadership" and "taking over" because his defense is getting stops every time down the floor. He has to succeed much less frequently than other superstars because their defense shuts everyone down.

innocent bystander :there’s something about Rose’s pretty drives to the basket that creates a hypnotic effect on some people, causing them to lose their ability to think clearly… smh

it's not just that, its his feel for the game, his leadership qualities, and his ability to take over a game. He is a superstar, just like KD and I wouldn't be surprised if he is the next big thing ala Kobe.

Trying to get a hype-driven demographic to consider being objective in their opinion is a recipe for high blood pressure. When it comes to the NBA MVP, I try to avoid such a job. I do my best to save it for politics where my vote matters and the outcome actually affects the world around me.

dream catcher :Rose is simply a much better basketball player right now. I think if we switched Rose and Westbrook, there would be a lot of Thunder fans who would think Rose is our franchise player not Durant. He has been that good, numbers don’t tell the whole story.

The one case of Rose vs Westbrook that is in Rose's favor is turnovers. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I believe Russ is 4.5 turns/game and Rose is 3.3...or something close to that.

Rose is a hype machine. This should be Dwight's award. He is leading the league's 4th leading defense that features himself, Brandon Bass, Jameer Nelson, JJ Redick, Jason Richardson, Ryan Anderson and Hedu Freakin' Turkoglu. That's an MVP.

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