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The bottom line is, no one - not even the devs - knows what the housing updates will end up being. But if HoarseDev says they're prototyping a new system I believe him. If he says they are considering multiple houses, Rohan houses, etc. I believe him. Nothing any player says, regardless of how emphatic and well-crafted their opinions are, will trump that for me. For me that's the final word.

No one is disputing that, what they are saying is the people who think that the housing changes are going to be substantial and a massive overhaul are going to be disappointed, it is going to be a few tweaks here and there maybe some Rohan houses maybe not. Even the CM has made moves to try and curb peoples radical ideas on what is coming. I have seen people say they are looking forward to bigger houses, with more rooms, the ability to add rooms all sorts of wild and wonderful thoughts, and inevitably they will be upset when those things do not arrive and will take to the forums to express that, It may be wise for turbine to explain exactly what they are currently working on and what their ideas are in their entirety, to stop that now. After all you cant tell me that a housing update that is due in the next 7 months(and was being developed for all of last year) isnt substantially down the development path by now and the devs dont have some solid info to pass on.

After all you cant tell me that a housing update that is due in the next 7 months(and was being developed for all of last year) isnt substantially down the development path by now and the devs dont have some solid info to pass on.

It may get pushed back again, who knows? Also development doesn't work like that. They just gave solid info: they are prototyping the new system. This means they haven't finalized what direction they are even going in. Of course they aren't going to be passing on information at this point. Better to under promise and over deliver than the opposite.

It may get pushed back again, who knows? Also development doesn't work like that. They just gave solid info: they are prototyping the new system. This means they haven't finalized what direction they are even going in. Of course they aren't going to be passing on information at this point. Better to under promise and over deliver than the opposite.

You and I have very different opinions to what solid info means it seems, someone telling me they are prototyping a new system isnt solid at all to me, telling me what is in the system would be solid info. That is a vague statement, could mean they are testing a new style of housing with crafting facilities,stables outside, walk in wardrobes and a basement with a snooker table,beer fridge, lazy boy recliner and an x-box in it. But equally it could mean they are testing the placement of 4 more pegs, it means nothing to me, its not any more info then I already knew, I knew they were doing a housing update this year, and I knew that would involve testing certain things, that just common sense, what i want to know is what exactly is planned for this update that was started 15 months ago, delayed with no word on how far they had got or what ideas they had worked on and now 3 months after being told it was all on again nothing more than a few maybe's, could be's and wait and see's. We have been doing that since Jan last year its time for a dev diary or something official on what turbines vision is on this.

I think they all have the right intentions and want to do it justice. But good intentions and reality are two different things. They gutted the development team so that had to throw things off. The original plan was to have new content quarterly. It appears that update 13 will be released in April so that goal will be a little off. I believe these will add up. I am trying not to be cynical and so I hope for the best.

A lot of people are saying the age of the code and engine are major factors. I think it is to a point. But what I wonder is how does WoW keeps that game going forward? I believe they are adding personal housing in the next expansion. Granted, WoW is not as graphically demanding as LOTRO. I don't really think it is about the code and engine as much as it is about the resources and commitment. I appreciate the dilemma it puts Turbine in. How much resources will they set aside to get this done? Will other parts of the game suffer? In the end I think WB needs to loosen the purse strings and get this done. I can dream.

Housing
This deserves a special mention. After reviewing all our goals for the year, major Housing changes will not be among them. We reviewed multiple options to update the system – none of them met our standards of quality, and ultimately the system you would want us to build.

LOTRO is about the journey, and first and foremost we want to be expanding and growing the world of Middle-earth. This does not mean there will be no changes to Housing, but don’t expect broad, systemic updates. I’m sorry that we set any other expectations in the past, as we know this is a feature that many of you greatly value.

Meadowlarke Sweetweed on Landroval. Also nephews and Bounders Ayrhawk, Wrennsong, and Little Meadowlark Sweetweed
Club Eclair roleplaying group on Landroval currently capped at Level 45 working on Book XIV (Alphred Troute, Hedgerow Shrewburrow).

Housing
This deserves a special mention. After reviewing all our goals for the year, major Housing changes will not be among them. We reviewed multiple options to update the system – none of them met our standards of quality, and ultimately the system you would want us to build........I’m sorry that we set any other expectations in the past, as we know this is a feature that many of you greatly value.

I'm hugely disappointed and not surprised in the least.

I tend to blame staffing and financial constraints, imposed by bean counters for a variety of reasons - some objective and sensible, I have no doubt. Nevertheless I'm dying a little inside to see yet further delays with no real timescale in sight. It is a small comfort that there is actually a statement on the subject, instead of a "say nothing" response, because feedback should go both ways ideally.

The housing update is probably in the same basket as the new raids. There's a LOT of empty housing, so it may not be the revenue-maker it once was, so they may not want to put money in it, same as raids.

We'll see.

Yes, there is a lot of empty housing, mainly because the initial housing was only a quick fix to address the complaints of MANY, MANY players when the game launched. Since then, nothing has been done to improve housing, they are giving us more and more items that we can potentially place in our houses, but most of the good items have a tendency to take the same, very limited, hook types.

So lets see, why would someone use LOTRO housing...

Storage...
Trophy Display...

End...

The idea of the housing revamp is to get people to use the housing. Allowing free-form placement will make a tremendous difference in the amount of time players spend in their housing, and the amount of TPs they will use in decorating it. As the creative potential increases, so does the potential for revenue. The other thing to look at is grind, the ability to upgrade houses, making them larger or adding additions is also another potential revenue stream, it could require a great deal of resources to do upgrades (in the form of harvestable crafting mats? Wood prices are too low anyway compared to iron...), or you could top up with TPs...

The point is, the more things you have for people to do with their houses, the more potential revenue you have. Same goes for anything really, but housing done right, has been proven to be an enormous time sink... One that is completely cosmetic, and raises very little eyebrows when you offer the store links...

Just remember, its quite possible that housing may end up paying for that next raid... Honestly, its the one thing that may bring me back to LOTRO... I bought Helms Deep, but have logged twice since it was released. Content lately has been bleh at best.

I think they all have the right intentions and want to do it justice. But good intentions and reality are two different things. They gutted the development team so that had to throw things off. The original plan was to have new content quarterly. It appears that update 13 will be released in April so that goal will be a little off. I believe these will add up. I am trying not to be cynical and so I hope for the best.

A lot of people are saying the age of the code and engine are major factors. I think it is to a point. But what I wonder is how does WoW keeps that game going forward? I believe they are adding personal housing in the next expansion. Granted, WoW is not as graphically demanding as LOTRO. I don't really think it is about the code and engine as much as it is about the resources and commitment. I appreciate the dilemma it puts Turbine in. How much resources will they set aside to get this done? Will other parts of the game suffer? In the end I think WB needs to loosen the purse strings and get this done. I can dream.

Well of course the age of the code is a factor. The game code is at least a decade old and the housing code at least six years old. However that is turbines fault for ignoring the housing system for so long. At this point we should have had a system that rivals that of other games such as EQ2, Rift, DCUO, and others. After a decade Blizzard is adding Garrisons to WoW and when that happens we will see how the housing system in lotro really is.

The problem is Turbine needs new Devs because the old ones are tired and have lost their love of the game. To make money they must please the customer and at this point they are draining more then they are making because they spent too much time on adding new systems instead of updating the old ones. So in the end they lose potential subscribers because nobody wants to pay for a broken game.

The idea of the housing revamp is to get people to use the housing. Allowing free-form placement will make a tremendous difference in the amount of time players spend in their housing, and the amount of TPs they will use in decorating it. As the creative potential increases, so does the potential for revenue. The other thing to look at is grind, the ability to upgrade houses, making them larger or adding additions is also another potential revenue stream, it could require a great deal of resources to do upgrades (in the form of harvestable crafting mats? Wood prices are too low anyway compared to iron...), or you could top up with TPs...

The point is, the more things you have for people to do with their houses, the more potential revenue you have. Same goes for anything really, but housing done right, has been proven to be an enormous time sink... One that is completely cosmetic, and raises very little eyebrows when you offer the store links...

Just remember, its quite possible that housing may end up paying for that next raid... Honestly, its the one thing that may bring me back to LOTRO... I bought Helms Deep, but have logged twice since it was released. Content lately has been bleh at best.

Free form placement will never happen. They tried this when first building housing & they just couldn't do it.

Originally Posted by Econn71

The problem is Turbine needs new Devs because the old ones are tired and have lost their love of the game. To make money they must please the customer and at this point they are draining more then they are making because they spent too much time on adding new systems instead of updating the old ones. So in the end they lose potential subscribers because nobody wants to pay for a broken game.

Actually I think the problem is they no longer have enough staff & the resources to do anything big with housing among other things.

The problem is Turbine needs new Devs because the old ones are tired and have lost their love of the game.

Many of the old ones are gone. They were transferred to other projects Infinite Crisis. Some were laid off. They are not going to be replaced because Lotro does not generate enough revenue to support the additional development staff.

Originally Posted by Econn71

To make money they must please the customer and at this point they are draining more then they are making because they spent too much time on adding new systems instead of updating the old ones. So in the end they lose potential subscribers because nobody wants to pay for a broken game.

My personal opinion as always.

I think into the situation where the dollars Lotro takes in every month is declining each month. That means that the amount of content of all kinds provided in a year has to go down. Large features like a major update to housing are too costly. Typically the situation of having to cut back on new content, new features and updates to old features because you can't afford it. Annoys potential customers, new customers and existing customers resulting in them spending fewer dollars on the project. Fewer dollars earned causes another reduction in expenses and reduces content again.

There is a name for this situation. It is called a vicious cycle. Many times there is no way out a vicious cycle. The product spirals downward to extinction or a very small niche product.

Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

Many of the old ones are gone. They were transferred to other projects Infinite Crisis. Some were laid off. They are not going to be replaced because Lotro does not generate enough revenue to support the additional development staff.My personal opinion as always.

I think into the situation where the dollars Lotro takes in every month is declining each month. That means that the amount of content of all kinds provided in a year has to go down. Large features like a major update to housing are too costly. Typically the situation of having to cut back on new content, new features and updates to old features because you can't afford it. Annoys potential customers, new customers and existing customers resulting in them spending fewer dollars on the project. Fewer dollars earned causes another reduction in expenses and reduces content again.

There is a name for this situation. It is called a vicious cycle. Many times there is no way out a vicious cycle. The product spirals downward to extinction or a very small niche product.

I know that all too well. The new content isn't the only issue but the fact that the game is store heavy to new players. By that I mean to quest in area's like the trollshaws you have to grind deeds or spend cash for TP otherwise you hit a brick wall. Turbine needs to look at other games stores and practices. Like SOE and Everquest 2. They need to work on finding a ballance between development and marketing that works. a lot of stuff in the store is priced too high and that is one of other issues that is killing the game.

I know that all too well. The new content isn't the only issue but the fact that the game is store heavy to new players. By that I mean to quest in area's like the trollshaws you have to grind deeds or spend cash for TP otherwise you hit a brick wall. Turbine needs to look at other games stores and practices. Like SOE and Everquest 2. They need to work on finding a ballance between development and marketing that works. a lot of stuff in the store is priced too high and that is one of other issues that is killing the game.

If most of the prices in the store were cheap, chances are most would just use there tps to buy things & not spend much cash.

The housing update is probably in the same basket as the new raids. There's a LOT of empty housing, so it may not be the revenue-maker it once was, so they may not want to put money in it, same as raids.

We'll see.

That is isn't a revenue maker I can well understand as it is such a limited system. But I think that putting time and therefore money into it could make it worth the time and make it a "revenue maker". Take a look at the housing system in EQII where they have spent time and effort and have many players who play just for the fun of creating their own homes - literally from the ground up - the walls, the configurations, the surfaces, the landscape, and a wealth of recipes for crafters to make housing items. It's what I miss the most in EQ2.
I play LOTRO now for the lore and the questing and the fact that the story line has continuity. And because in LOTRO I don't suddenly sign on and find myself stripped of all my gear every month or so because of some change they've made that requires me to spend tons of in game gold to re-gear. But having a decent housing system would definitely be an added way to keep me in the game.

That is isn't a revenue maker I can well understand as it is such a limited system. But I think that putting time and therefore money into it could make it worth the time and make it a "revenue maker". Take a look at the housing system in EQII where they have spent time and effort and have many players who play just for the fun of creating their own homes - literally from the ground up - the walls, the configurations, the surfaces, the landscape, and a wealth of recipes for crafters to make housing items. It's what I miss the most in EQ2.
I play LOTRO now for the lore and the questing and the fact that the story line has continuity. And because in LOTRO I don't suddenly sign on and find myself stripped of all my gear every month or so because of some change they've made that requires me to spend tons of in game gold to re-gear. But having a decent housing system would definitely be an added way to keep me in the game.

I never really had that problem with EQ2. However as you said housing could have been profitable however as has been said before the Dev team has to want to make a profit and clearly Turbine nor WB want this game to make any money. Go figure poor choice on their part.