Actually, from some of your replies, I think GOD is already working on you.

I agree Billy!!!

Pablo, I would issue a call for caution only in this sense. You statement is PROUD, and ARROGANT. You, a mere compilation of molecules dare to set guidelines on how and when the God of the universe can act. In fact, all you've done is set a stage for failure, in that if the God of the universe chooses not to act in YOUR time frame, then He doesn't exist. That's like me saying I give Barak Obama exactly one week to get out of office! Who am I to tell the President anything?

I in turn would like to issue you a challenge: Pablo, are you willing to ask the Lord for a period of 1 month, this following question. 1 month!

Lord: I want to believe, but I don't, will you show me you exist, and help me to have the faith that you believe? I want to know you, but don't really have the faith for strength to believe, I need your help, will you help me?

I challenge you to take that attitude and posture for one month, and even record that month in a diary, and then see what happens. Just because humanity issues a challenge does not mean that God is bound by your request. But if you come to Him with humility, honestly seeking, I believe with all my heart that you could received the breakthrough you desire. But here's a question, Are you up for the reality of it all?

Can you bear the weight of knowing and seeing who you are as it relates to the righteousnes of God? We can shake our fist at God and try and box him all we want, but you'll find out your arms are too short in due time. But please, take the challenge, seriously, and you'll see! Just present him with what you have, no matter how little the faith, just come presenting your two mites of faith, and behold what the Lord can do. He loves you and is waiting for you to take that step, so I double dog dare ya!!!

DevilDoc, I did indeed read the Bible and it was one of the greatest fantasy novels I've ever read. I mean, dragons, sorcerers, elves, and unicorns had nothing on some of the crap spewed in the Bible.

I'll admit that I was a bit of a smartass as a kid. I also had a huge interest in science and that led me to question things in the Bible that didn't make sense. Needless to say, that didn't go over very well with the nuns in Sunday School.

I think that even you can admit that the Book of Genesis is complete bunk. The Earth was not created before the sun or the heavens. Therefore, if that is wrong, how much more of biblical mythology is wrong, as well?

More importantly to me atleast, where is the physical evidence of the existence of God? There is none, and for as long as that remains true, we may as well be discussing Bigfoot. While you rely upon faith and your heart to come to your conclusions, I use science and my brain to determine mine. Then again, it could be said that I have no heart, but that's a different topic for another day.

With all that said, I have no problem with you believing whatever you wish to, unlike some other atheists out there. I support Freedom of Religion and the right to not believe in any of them. Who am I (or anybody else for that matter) to say which belief system is right or wrong for each individual person?

_________________

May 27th, 2011, 8:18 pm

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3056Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: The war of Gog and Magog.

Sly,

I appreciate your thoughts and ideas, but I still think you are trying to use physical logic to explain the Spiritual. The Spiritual will come from the heart, the physical comes from the logic, and as much as we demand it, we will not see proof of the Spiritual with physical eyes, we couldn't handle it.

Now there has also been a significant number of studies in the realm of scientific studies that show a number of intricacies that speak of Divine Creation. One of which is the t cell. Another is the process of blood clotting. 21 steps have to be taken in order for the blood to clot, miss one and the host dies. However, all of this gets into areas way beyond my scope of understanding and I don't want to state it wrong, and or lead you astray by baffling you with bs. I'm not fluent enough in these areas to be able to address it clearly, but if you'd like I can try and find the authors of the studies?

DevilDoc, I thought I should point out that I rarely participate in religious discussions because I really have no problems/qualms with Christians or their beliefs. My entire family are Christians, so it would be like offending or insulting them to belittle their beliefs. Of course, I do enjoy cracking jokes about it, especially at steensn's expense, but who doesn't? That's what I do.

Truth be told, I have a bigger problem with the atheists/libtards out there that want to ban everything religious, than I do the Christians. Most of those people are offended whenever they see a Christmas tree or hear the word, "God". I'm not. During family get-togethers, I sit silently at the table while they say grace. It's their right to do so and my right to abstain. However, the libtard atheist crowd raises a stink about stuff like that because they think it violates their rights. Screw them. As you can see, I'm not your "typical" atheist, and I'm glad that you haven't claimed that I was one. I just felt the need to clarify that.

I also freely admit that I need physical evidence to logically support any belief. That's simply the way that my brain is wired. As an example, I would love to jump on the Glenn Beck Conspiracy Theory Highway concerning Obama, but I just can't do it. There are all sorts of circumstantial evidence to support it, but that's not good enough for me. I need good, hard, solid evidence before I can jump onboard. And that's saying a lot considering how much I hate that socialist douchebag in the White House.

As for t cells and blood clotting, evolution is a wonderful thing. While species like the Neanderthals died out through natural selection, Homo Erectus thrived and evolved into Homo Sapiens. There are millions, if not billions, of species that have become extinct throughout the 4.5 billion year history of this planet. If God truly loved all of his creations, why is that? Simply put, species evolve and adapt over time or else they die out. It's my belief that "God" has nothing to do with it.

_________________

May 28th, 2011, 5:20 pm

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3056Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: The war of Gog and Magog.

Touche'

Sly, I really don't have enough scientific evidence or training to break it down for you. And I'm not going to try to pull you into a discussion that you normally avoid, that's the whole beating with a Bible thing I don't do.

But I can pray, and that I will do, and hopefully, something I've said or demonstrated to each of you, will plant a seed, and then it's up to our Heavenly Father to grow it. If I've done my part then so be it, and I hope that someday it will bear fruit, and we can "frolic" through the streets of Heaven. Had to put the frolic part in there, because it cracked me up to say it. Anyway, consider yourself ground zero for prayer strikes!!!

DevilDoc, while I appreciate your concerns, please don't pray for me. There are others far more deserving. Besides, if I'm wrong, I promise to become Satan's worst nightmare, OK?

In terms of science, I was never really a big Anthropology/Evolution buff, even though I did take one course on it. My passion was with Astronomy, which I took several courses on at UM-Dearborn. As a result, this is how I see it:

We are located on an insignificant little planet revolving around an insignificant little sun, revolving around the outskirts of an insignifant little galaxy, which is speeding past the center of the universe like every other planet/sun/galaxy is. Why would a God care about the little rock that we live on in the greater scheme of things?

Furthermore, as a sun burns hydrogen, it creates helium. Once helium burning occurs, oxygen and carbon are created. After that, heavier elements begin burning, which results in an explosion or an expulsion of the sun's outer layers, depending upon it's mass. These elements are then discharged into the universe, which condense together via gravity to form new suns and/or planets.

Hydrogen, Oxygen, and Carbon are the building blocks of life on this planet. Who is to say that we weren't created by the atoms of an exploding red giant star 4.5 billion years ago? Likewise, who can say that we were created by God? The fact is that nobody knows, but I prefer to take the scientific approach to things. Others may feel differently, but that is their right.

I should have added that I don't mean to belittle or criticize Christian beliefs with my remarks, since it might get me killed. Oh wait, that's the Muslims that would kill me for saying that Muhammad was a pedophile. Nevermind.

Seriously though, this is a free country, so you can believe whatever you want. And more importantly, I would give my own life to defend that right. While I don't agree with Christians on their beliefs, I stand with them on their right to practice their religion.

_________________

May 28th, 2011, 8:39 pm

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3056Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: The war of Gog and Magog.

SInce Astronomy is your Kick, I've got a piece of information for you that will blow your mind. It uses "faith" but more importantly, it uses the known trajectory of stars and planets to date things that have occurred in the Bible. It explains what the Star of Bethlehem actually was, and proves it with the science I told you about. There is a dvd that is about an hour long, or you could go to bethlehemstarproject.com

let me knwo what you think, it was AWESOME to see that kind of data.

_________________Acts 4:13, 1 Cor. 2:1-5, Rom. 12:1-2

May 29th, 2011, 8:38 am

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3056Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: The war of Gog and Magog.

Sly: I've been considering your comments this morning and as I thought of them, here are some things that came to mind.

1. In several places throughout scripture, men had contact with angelic beings. In EVERY circumstance, the men were struck with fear, and had to be told not to be afraid. Satan, is the chief angel, created in the highest place amongst angels, and is subordinate to the trinity only. So I highly doubt that a mere mortal is going to be anyone's pain in the rectum. The flesh just can't measure up in spirit, and besides, I believe the torture is going to be so great, there isn't going to be time for anything but eternal pain and suffering. This is why I am hopeful that the Lord will allow me to say or do something that will rescue those I care about.

2. I can not stop praying for you: although you saying that God has better things to do, what could be better than helping you come to meet, and know the God of the Universe. How's that for astronomy, you could actually meet the one who made all that you like to research. Imagine a day when you and He could walk through the stellar expanses, and discuss how he made this or that, or why he placed that where he did. By the way, the book of Job also has God asking if it were Job who made the stars and planets, placing them in their courses.

3. I just heard today in a message in church about how it is our faith in action that initates the power of Heaven. Case in point: King Jehosaphat turned the nation of Judah back to the Lord. He was about to be attacked by 3 nations, an overwhelming army against him. So as leader he called upon the nation to fast and pray so that they might be saved. Then in faith He marched out to meet the armies, allowing the musicians to lead the way. 2 Chronicles 20 states that at the very moment they started to worship, the Lord caused the enemies to fight each other so that no one survived. The point was, that when we take that step in faith, THEN God shows up, not before.

I know with all my heart that I can not answer all of your questions, but I can point you in the direction of who to ask. But I would issue a challenge out to you as well as Pablo. Would you take the next 30 days and pray a simple prayer.

Lord: I just don't believe you are there, but I want to. I don't even know if I have the faith to believe, but you can do it in me. So please help me to come to know you, help me to see how truly awesome you are. Open the eyes of my heart, and allow my ears to hear. In Jesus name, amen.

I'm not asking you to convert, but to be truthfull in that you don't believe but you want to. Asking for the faith to believe, and for him to open the eyes of your heart so that you might see would be a good start. Again, I'm not trying to beat you with a Bible, or tell you what you have to do. I just want you, Blue, and Pablo to experience the God that I know! But each of you has to make the first step, and so I will continue to pray for you, even though you've asked me not to. You see I serve a MIGHTY GOD, who is all powerful, so I'm sure he can fit you into his schedule.....

Sly: I've been considering your comments this morning and as I thought of them, here are some things that came to mind.

1. In several places throughout scripture, men had contact with angelic beings. In EVERY circumstance, the men were struck with fear, and had to be told not to be afraid. Satan, is the chief angel, created in the highest place amongst angels, and is subordinate to the trinity only. So I highly doubt that a mere mortal is going to be anyone's pain in the rectum. The flesh just can't measure up in spirit, and besides, I believe the torture is going to be so great, there isn't going to be time for anything but eternal pain and suffering. This is why I am hopeful that the Lord will allow me to say or do something that will rescue those I care about.

2. I can not stop praying for you: although you saying that God has better things to do, what could be better than helping you come to meet, and know the God of the Universe. How's that for astronomy, you could actually meet the one who made all that you like to research. Imagine a day when you and He could walk through the stellar expanses, and discuss how he made this or that, or why he placed that where he did. By the way, the book of Job also has God asking if it were Job who made the stars and planets, placing them in their courses.

3. I just heard today in a message in church about how it is our faith in action that initates the power of Heaven. Case in point: King Jehosaphat turned the nation of Judah back to the Lord. He was about to be attacked by 3 nations, an overwhelming army against him. So as leader he called upon the nation to fast and pray so that they might be saved. Then in faith He marched out to meet the armies, allowing the musicians to lead the way. 2 Chronicles 20 states that at the very moment they started to worship, the Lord caused the enemies to fight each other so that no one survived. The point was, that when we take that step in faith, THEN God shows up, not before.

I know with all my heart that I can not answer all of your questions, but I can point you in the direction of who to ask. But I would issue a challenge out to you as well as Pablo. Would you take the next 30 days and pray a simple prayer.

Lord: I just don't believe you are there, but I want to. I don't even know if I have the faith to believe, but you can do it in me. So please help me to come to know you, help me to see how truly awesome you are. Open the eyes of my heart, and allow my ears to hear. In Jesus name, amen.

I'm not asking you to convert, but to be truthfull in that you don't believe but you want to. Asking for the faith to believe, and for him to open the eyes of your heart so that you might see would be a good start. Again, I'm not trying to beat you with a Bible, or tell you what you have to do. I just want you, Blue, and Pablo to experience the God that I know! But each of you has to make the first step, and so I will continue to pray for you, even though you've asked me not to. You see I serve a MIGHTY GOD, who is all powerful, so I'm sure he can fit you into his schedule.....

Sorry, but it ain't gonna happen. Besides, I've said my peace in this thread and it's time to move on. As I've previously noted, I don't particularly enjoy religious topics, so it's time for you believers to continue on with your Gog and Magog discussion without me.

_________________

May 30th, 2011, 9:06 am

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3056Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: The war of Gog and Magog.

Me thinks the reality was getting too close to home! It's cool, you can walk away from me, and no hard feelings, but you can't walk away from the Lord, and so I give you, Pablo, and Blue over to Him. Be blessed!

Me thinks the reality was getting too close to home! It's cool, you can walk away from me, and no hard feelings, but you can't walk away from the Lord, and so I give you, Pablo, and Blue over to Him. Be blessed!

That's true. GOD will find them where they are and reel them in. We have done what we can by putting the subject out there. It's totally in GOD's hands now.

May 30th, 2011, 10:26 am

Blueskies

QB Coach

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pmPosts: 3084

Re: The war of Gog and Magog.

Quote:

The point is, someone just writting off every Christian, Athiest, Muslim, etc. as "you just believe that because you were brought up that way" is stupid lazy thinking.It creates a fals cause ans effect relationship that the same people touting it themselves usually are the proof of its stupidity.

You're insulting my intelligence? Seriously? lmao

Aren't you an engineer? Didn't you learn any statistics?

If 95%+ of religious people that happen to be from geographical area X and ethnic group Z belong to religion Y...that's overwhelming statistical evidence that X and Z are, at the very least, correlated with Y.

Correlation does not, obviously, imply causation. Just like the fact that the statistical evidence showing that smokers happen to get lung cancer does not, necessarily, prove that smoking causes cancer.

But combining the statistics with a little common sense shows us that smoking causes cancer, and being raised in a "Christian home" or a "Muslim home" causes one to become a Christian or a Muslim.

If you want to continue to deny this, have at it. But don't call me an idiot for telling it like it is.

May 30th, 2011, 10:55 pm

steensn

RIP Killer

Joined: June 26th, 2006, 1:03 pmPosts: 13429

Re: The war of Gog and Magog.

Blueskies wrote:

Quote:

The point is, someone just writting off every Christian, Athiest, Muslim, etc. as "you just believe that because you were brought up that way" is stupid lazy thinking.It creates a fals cause ans effect relationship that the same people touting it themselves usually are the proof of its stupidity.

You're insulting my intelligence? Seriously? lmao

Aren't you an engineer? Didn't you learn any statistics?

If 95%+ of religious people that happen to be from geographical area X and ethnic group Z belong to religion Y...that's overwhelming statistical evidence that X and Z are, at the very least, correlated with Y.

Correlation does not, obviously, imply causation. Just like the fact that the statistical evidence showing that smokers happen to get lung cancer does not, necessarily, prove that smoking causes cancer.

But combining the statistics with a little common sense shows us that smoking causes cancer, and being raised in a "Christian home" or a "Muslim home" causes one to become a Christian or a Muslim.

If you want to continue to deny this, have at it. But don't call me an idiot for telling it like it is.

I'm not denying statistics... I'm denying writting off someone elses beliefs based on statistics. Statistically speaking 70% of all NFL players are black but less than 1.5% of the NHL are black. If a black guy walks up and tells you he is a proathlete and you go, "What NFL team?". He says "No, The Thrashers in the NHL." Then you reply with "That can't be true, statistically speaking you shouldn't be one because you're black," then you are a racist. To initially think NFL, no big deal, statistics show that he is more likely to be in that group. To then force statistics upon an individual, now you are a a racist.

That is what is happening here. You are taking a statistical assumption, fair when talking generally and apply it to individuals. That is where I insult your intelligence. It's like telling every smoker their cancer is for SURE caused by smoking. Most likely, yes, individually no.

I will call you out for applying general statistics to individuals and not allowing them to be outside the box while you let you and a few athiest off the hook for being special cases. When you sum up my beliefs as a statistic, you are being intellectually dishonest. When you sum up anothers belief based on statistics, you are being intellectually dishonest. You are dismissive based on statistics instead of being real to the individual. That is laughable and needs called out. Being born into a Christian, Athiest, or Muslim home increases your chances drastically to being one of them... but it doesn't confine you to that reason, that is just LAZY thinking.

Further, your statistics are flawed to begin with as significant portion professed Christians aren't even really Christians, just diest, same with Muslims. Many call themselves that because they don't know better or just pull off whatever their parents are/were. That figure shows a different # regarding who actually follow through with their parents beliefs and who just use it as a social thing. But once you use even that deeper understanding of statistics, writting off someone individually is LAZY and intellectually dishonest and you know it.