I apologize in advance Admin if this is in the wrong area, but this seemed to be the most appropriate.

A recent thread about carrying in your vehicle, and vehicle choice, brought this to mind and I thought it would make an interesting thread.

This particular scenario happened to me twice during the 1,000,000+ miles i have logged. I don\'t know if it was just my misfortune, or just because I am on the road so much ,or what, but it has influenced my way of thinking so much that I couldnít resist sharing.

Several years ago before I had my ccw or a cell phone, I was coming home very late at night in my not so trusty Vega. I noticed a pair of headlights that came up on me fast, glued themselves to my back bumper and wouldn\'t back off. I was on the interstate and had been driving on a pretty well deserted stretch of road for a while, so there was no problem if the guy in the car behind me wanted to pass. I tapped the brake pedal just enough to blink my brake lights but not actually slow down my car. The headlights didn\'t budge. I knew it wasn\'t a police car, from the size and shape of those lights, and I wasn\'t speeding or swerving so I was just a little stumped and a bit nervous. I was also worried that if I had to hit my brakes this guy was going to end up in my back seat.

After a bit I switched to the fast lane to let him have the road, and he stayed right behind me..I also tried slowing down and seeing if he would pass, all with no luck. This went on for around 10 minutes, until I got to my exit. The car stayed on my rear as I turned off onto residential streets. I wasnít about to let them follow me home, so I started taking a very twisting winding path that kept doubling back on itself through subdivisions I knew pretty well. (I grew up in this town) The car stayed right with me. Finally I decided to head toward the police station and see if they would follow me there. (I know I should have gone there first :rolleyes: )
When I turned back onto the highway to head toward town, this chuckle head smacks my rear quarter panel and almost spins me out. At that point in my young life I went into fight or flight mode. In other words I panicked and ran like heck! He got in another minor tap before I got very far, fortunately for me I instinctively remembered the blind curve about 3/4 mile from town and just barely managed to dive far enough to into the left lane to take it. He didn\'t and ended up skidding though a wire fence into a muddy field about 2'below the level of the road, and got stuck. I continued on to the police station and filed a report. They sent out a car, but by then the driver was gone. It turned out that the car (a 70 something caddy), had been stolen a day or two earlier. They never caught the thief to the best of my knowledge. To this day I have no idea why I was targeted or what they intended, but I would bet my life savings it wasnít to tell me how much they liked my ďvisualize using your turn signalĒ bumper sticker.

Ok, here is the scenario, a vehicle begins to follow you home and won\'t back off. You call the police but they won\'t be able to catch up with you for a few minutes. The BG, starts trying to run you off the road, what do you do?

January 1st, 2005, 10:31 AM

armoredman

Well, where I am the PD is pretty close, but if I am driving home from work, I could be anywhere - 65 miles one way to work.
If I am by myself, I concentrate on defensive driving, and try to stay on the road. It also depends on the other vehicle - if he\'s driving a Vega, I am not to terribly worried. If he\'s got a Caddy, I am in trouble!
Second, get off the road to negate his advantage, if need be. The use of the blind corner to set him up is good, if you know the area well enough to do that! Most of the road I drive is flat, straight, and hi speed.
If I have someone with me, which is highly likely, going to and from work, and he is packing, also highly likely, we can see if the use of a psitol will stop this assault, which it is if he taps me and keeps coming. that is ag assault, and vehicular assault. We don\'t have the charge of ADW out here. Ag Assault is defensible with deadly force in AZ without the need to retret, but care must be taken - who is going to shoot? Drivers must be very careful to keep full attention on driving - this is NOT a movie called Road Warrior. Passengers must be careful to limit shots to good ones - spraying and praying will leave slugs tearing into schools, Circle K and Chevrons - NOT GOOD! Also, an uncontrolled vehicle,( if you take out the driver of the other vehicle), can cause incredible death and destruction in any inhabited area. A disabling shot to the radiator might be best - will cause the enemy vehicle to eventually stop, under control, without the chance of wild spinout, etc.
Each scenario has it\'s unique perspectives. Always be condition orange, and aware of what missed shots could do.... And, a 2 ton bullet already in motion can do more damage that a 115gr bullet.....:O

January 1st, 2005, 10:31 AM

Scott

I had an \"incident\" with a car load of individuals gesturing swerving etc, but no contact.

I pulled over and opened my door as if I was getting out. Gear shift in neutral. After the guys piled out of the car behind me I dropped it in drive and floored it. I didn\'t see them again. Lucky me.

If someone was actually making contact, Hmmmm. That raises the bar quite a bit. It would really depend on where I was as to what I would do. Basically so long as my vehicle was operable I would stay with it and try to wreck the other vehicle or get away as you did.

January 1st, 2005, 10:35 AM

jdsumner

Keep moving and try to work w the dispatcher/911 operator to manuever your way to the nearest unit to you, or to a patrol station. You pretty much still have the advantage as long as you are not driving so fast as to lose control. If he (they) succesfully run you off the road, leave the cell on so the operator and recorder can hear you holler \"stop, do not approach any closer, I\'m on the phone w the police and an officer is on the way!\".
If the attack continues, well, use your vehicle as cover/concealment and deal with the most immediate threat first and stay in the fight. Dont know what else I cant tell you. Some other folks here I\'m sure will offer better advice.

Sorry, thats all I got

Dan

January 1st, 2005, 11:26 AM

GoodSamaritan

Quote:

The use of the blind corner to set him up is good, if you know the area well enough to do that!

Well, I would like to claim that I set him up on that curve, but honestly I was runing scared and didn\'t remember it till the last second. LOL

All of these responses have been very good, but like so many things there never really is one single right answer. Even if there was I wouldnt be remotely qualified to say what it was.

I was just bringing this up for fun and to get people thinking. After all what is CCW all about, if not being prepared? How many of us run potential scenarios through our heads while sitting at a resturant? We look at exits, and potential cover as a mental exercise. But then we go outside get in our car, checking to make sure everything is as it should be, but then drive down the road blissfully ingnorant of what is going on around us.

It is something I have given a lot of thought to over the years, and has influenced the way I drive, and in the vehicles I choose. (if it aint big and heavy with a big engine, I doesn\'t even get a test drive anymore)

A couple of other interesting factors to throw into this mix would be the inertia switch for the fuel system and the airbags on newer vehicles.

In other words, if someone whacks you hard enough it can turn off your fuel pump (to prevent it from feeding a fire in a wreck) and or deploy your airbags.

Having been on the recieving end of an airbag in a relatively minor crash I can tell you first hand it can disorient you for a minute or two. (not to mention beat the living crap out of you.)

There are a lot of what if\'s but it still makes for an interesting topic IMHO.

January 1st, 2005, 12:27 PM

armoredman

Buy an older vehicle without those things, like an International Scout, or original Toyota Landcruiser. I would love to get rid of my Ford Tempo for one of those!

January 1st, 2005, 05:33 PM

Bumper

Quote:

Originally posted by GoodSamaritan
I apologize in advance Admin if this is in the wrong area, but this seemed to be the most appropriate.

Nope, this is THE place for that subject. In fact I have another similar situation my son was involved in last summer. It\'s sort of a long story so I will try to get it posted later tonight. It\'s a good \"food for thought\" situation that we all need to consider.

January 1st, 2005, 07:48 PM

GoodSamaritan

Thanks, Bumper

Quote:

Buy an older vehicle without those things, like an International Scout, or original Toyota Landcruiser. I would love to get rid of my Ford Tempo for one of those!

I dont know about you, but after having one of those suckers detonate in my face I disabled the airbag on my current vehicle.(I always wear my seatbelt and don\'t loan this vehicle out, so please let\'s not start a debate on this) Also it would be a simple matter to put a bypass switch on your inertia switch. (two wires) Or relocate the inertia switch to the passenger compartment where it could be reset without exiting the vehicle if you were really concerned about it.
A large heavy vehicle though would most likely be disabled by impact damage before the inertia switch was triggered anyway.

Bryan

January 1st, 2005, 11:27 PM

Sheldon J

Well it is a good bet they did not want the vega.;) jokes aside I laughed at the bozo, my rear bumper was at about his winshield level (big offroad 4X4) tends to discourage this behaivor. That and I had my HK on my hip, with my fingers hovering over the 911 speed dial on the cell. They gave up after a few miles of not being able to unnerve me.

January 1st, 2005, 11:46 PM

GoodSamaritan

Quote:

Well it is a good bet they did not want the vega

ROFL! I am sure you are right about the vega, i owned the car and I didn\'t want it. It had that awful 2.3 \"Durabuilt\" wheezy oil pukeing chunk of scrapmetal GM tried to call an engine. Of course when you are as poor as I was back then, you drive what you can lay your hands on and the vega was free...

As I said earlier I had two similar situations both times I was in a relatively small car. Since I started buying bigger stuff, I have been honked at, yelled at, and recieved the one finger wave a few times. (some of them were deserved, others werent) But since that time nobody has attempted anything similar.

Before anyone makes any jokes about my driving, realize that I drive a LOT. Enough that in the last 3 years I have been involved in 3 different wrecks. All three of which consisted of me being stopped at a light, and either rearended or sideswiped. I try to be a friendly and alert driver, but if you are on the road as much as I am, you will eventually tick someone off no matter how careful you are.

Bryan

January 2nd, 2005, 01:07 AM

clubsoda22

I drive a crown vic with some minor modifications. Most cars that are bigger aren\'t as fast and most cars to are faster aren\'t as big. That being said, if i can\'t escape i\'m not going to mess around, I am going to get to a location where i have the advantage of cover as fast as i can, exit my vehicle and take cover. Engage as neccecary.

January 2nd, 2005, 08:48 AM

GoodSamaritan

Quote:

I drive a crown vic with some minor modifications

You wouldnt happen to be a member over on CVN would ya?

January 2nd, 2005, 10:25 AM

coma

Well the cops canít be called because I donít have a cell phone( I know I should have one but I donít like them). So I will be on my own, until I can get to a police station, or a patrol car on the road.

This is straight forward for me, I go into offensive driving mode. I have been a wrench on stock cars for 20 years( Iíve seen it all and done most of it.) also Iíve been in and out of the driverís seat a few times. While I am not any sort of top flight race car driver, I have 10 times the car control than 99% of the bad guys on the road.

So I guess the first thing would be to get up to speed, a speed faster than the average moron is really capable of handling them selves say 90 - 120 MPH(most of the street cars I have owned are not any good for real high speeds so that is about as fast as I would go in them,.). If the fool stays with me, and we are not close to the police station so can end this soon. The games will begin.

If after several attempts to shake him off, and then some roll reversals, i.e. me getting behind him (if I can), and they still persist. The speeds will come down. And I will try to get him beside me and hit his tires with my bumper, a flat tire will slow him down for sure, and give me time to get away(I drive junky car or trucks so I donít mind hitting things if I have to). If he is good enough or lucky enough to make me miss his wheels, I am quite sure he would not like a full on side slam at 50 to 75 + mph, while dangerous and we both may wreck, I am willing to do it, to end the game.

All of the above is the wrong way to deal with this type of scenario from a legal stand point, and safety stand point. But it is the only way I know how to fight, I fight to WIN.

January 2nd, 2005, 12:30 PM

APachon

Scott I agree, I am glad I have one of the heaviest things on the road, I doubt I can be pitted by a car behind me. However, when you are so mismatched as the Vega v. Caddy, rules change.

These scanerios are awesome...

Quote:

Originally posted by Scott
I had an \"incident\" with a car load of individuals gesturing swerving etc, but no contact.

I pulled over and opened my door as if I was getting out. Gear shift in neutral. After the guys piled out of the car behind me I dropped it in drive and floored it. I didn\'t see them again. Lucky me.

If someone was actually making contact, Hmmmm. That raises the bar quite a bit. It would really depend on where I was as to what I would do. Basically so long as my vehicle was operable I would stay with it and try to wreck the other vehicle or get away as you did.

January 2nd, 2005, 12:42 PM

Sheldon J

Quote:

Originally posted by coma
Well the cops canít be called because I donít have a cell phone( I know I should have one but I donít like them). So I will be on my own, until I can get to a police station, or a patrol car on the road.

You can pick up a used one at a garage sale, even if you do not pay for a service the law requires that the 911 still works. still a very handy and inexpensive tool

Quote:

So I guess the first thing would be to get up to speed, a speed faster than the average moron is really capable of handling them selves say 90 - 120 MPH(most of the street cars I have owned are not any good for real high speeds so that is about as fast as I would go in them,.). If the fool stays with me, and we are not close to the police station so can end this soon. The games will begin.

If after several attempts to shake him off, and then some roll reversals, i.e. me getting behind him (if I can), and they still persist. The speeds will come down. And I will try to get him beside me and hit his tires with my bumper, a flat tire will slow him down for sure, and give me time to get away(I drive junky car or trucks so I donít mind hitting things if I have to). If he is good enough or lucky enough to make me miss his wheels, I am quite sure he would not like a full on side slam at 50 to 75 + mph, while dangerous and we both may wreck, I am willing to do it, to end the game.

All of the above is the wrong way to deal with this type of scenario from a legal stand point, and safety stand point. But it is the only way I know how to fight, I fight to WIN.

Sounds like a great movie but in real life this can get you and someone else that accidentally gets in the way killed. Droping behind and pulling a pitman move on them will stop it asap. No flames intended Coma:... been though Several of Skip Barbers driving schools including his defensive driving one, (what a hoot) the skill levels taught there alone will nix any tricks the BG may have. I know it is very hard but you have to keep your cool while they loose theirs that is 90% of the battle.