Luke wrote:Well, probably just standard bodybuilding stuff. She obviously lifts weights and probably did extra cardio and followed a bodybuilder pre-contest diet to lose the fat. Lots of webpages explain this stuff.

^ Winning comment.

Worthy, wise and virtuous: Who is energetic and not indolent, in misfortune unshaken, flawless in manner and intelligent, such one will honor gain. - Digha Nikaya III 273

Thrasymachus wrote:,.. but who anyway in this thread give us strong clues they are overweight(skipping meals to try to lose weight, doing nonsense isolation ab exercises to only find out that if you are overweight anyway, it just makes your gut protrude more, and who cite fad diet books that advocate using infrequent interval training exercise, etc.). That bodybuilding woman you posted a picture got her physique from drugs, period.

If you want advice from a Western who is not total psychological wreck, and biased food addict,...

Don't listen to overweight Americans and other Western meat-addicts who want to make it look like being overweight is some unique genetic victimization, and are searching for fad-diet after fad diet, genetic excuse after genetic excuse, who want to make up nonsense that everyone is different to excuse why they are overweight,...

Not every woman is going to look like a barbie after she diets away most of her bodyfat. Some women are just naturally more muscular. Some of these women are sad about this, but others put their body type to good use in bodybuilding and other sports competitions. The woman in that picture obviously lifts weights, but her physique isn't nearly as extreme as that of professional female bodybuilders.

And your theory of people only being able to gain muscle size by using steroids is nonsense. Look at all the prison inmates who get huge despite not having access to steroids!

And your understanding of training splits is flawed as well. Lots of bodybuilders recommend that beginners exercise half their body each workout or do a push/pull/legs split. Yes, certainly, training only one bodypart per workout is very inefficient for most beginners, but no one says that that is the only possible way to train!

And if you like integrated total body movements, then look at Olympic-style weightlifting training programs.

Thrasymachus wrote:Total bs, you don't want to live in reality from your posting history on such topics.

Even most low carb gurus cannot follow low-carb if you follow what they actually admit to eating and not their low-carb idealized advice which even they cannot follow long-term, ketosis is not only unhealthy, it is very difficult to maintain.

Well, I don't know about low-carb gurus, but one thing is certain: there is no such thing as "essential carbohydrates". There is neither such a thing like "carbohydrate soluble vitamins"But there are essential fats, without which noone could continue to live, and there are also essential fat-soluble vitamins, without which people get sick and die.Our cell membranes cannot be built without fats. On the other hand, the only thing carbohydrates are good for is producing blood sugar, which is only useful for burning for energy production. Without carbs you still can have any amounts of energy available produced from fats and live happily and lead a healthy life, on the other hand, without essential fats and without essential fat soluble vitamins you get seriously sick and die miserably.Of course, the body is capable of producing fat out of carbohydrates, but the fats produced this way are the worst quality and the most unhealthy of all. This is only an emergency measure by the body in order to reduce dangerously high levels of blood sugar, that cannot be eliminated fast enough only by the burning process within the cells. This is why a "sugar bomb" in blood (as a result of eating complex carbs) is immediately followed by an "insuline bomb" (in order to turn excess sugar into those - unhealthy forms of - fat as fast as possible.)

One thing that should be taken care of, if one wants to reduce carbohydrate intake: one should NEVER substitute carbs by eating more proteins.Though burning proteins also produces energy, this is just as dangerous for our health as eating too much carbs. The energy for the body should come in the form of healthy fats, neither proteins, nor complex carbohydrates.So Atkins & Co., Palaeo etc. whith eating more meat are not the solution either.

A personal experience: I began eating a low-carb, high fat diet 8 months ago. I eat no bread, no rice, no pasta; a LOT of vegetables (but almost no high carb roots like potatoes, carrots etc.), little meat, some fish (about twice a week), some eggs, goat and sheep cheese, avocados, and quite a lot of virgin olive oil with almost everything.

I have lost 10 kg within these 8 months (from 82 to 72 kg) without doing any excercises (unfortunately I have no time at all for it) and without counting any calories at all. And I am completely healthy, full of energy, without feeling any temptation to eat more carbs.On the other hand, if I am invited and there is only spaghetti or sweets, I do eat it without feeling anything bad about it. The next day I continue with my plan anyway...

I would be very much interested in a general breakdown of your daily diet. If you are agreeable to either post here or PM me with it (in confidence of course if this option chosen), then that would be great. If not then thank you for at least stimulating the thread in a positive way.

“Not till your thoughts cease all their branching here and there, not till you abandon all thoughts of seeking for something, not till your mind is motionless as wood or stone, will you be on the right road to the Gate.”

tatpurusa wrote:One thing that should be taken care of, if one wants to reduce carbohydrate intake: one should NEVER substitute carbs by eating more proteins.Though burning proteins also produces energy, this is just as dangerous for our health as eating too much carbs.

What makes you say this? Many people in the bodybuilding community have been eating 1 to 1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight for a long time without any ill effects (although I don't think I ever ate so much protein).

Eating a bit more protein certainly doesn't seem like such a disastrous thing.

Thrasymachus wrote:Even most low carb gurus cannot follow low-carb if you follow what they actually admit to eating and not their low-carb idealized advice which even they cannot follow long-term, ketosis is not only unhealthy, it is very difficult to maintain.

I don't know about those "gurus" so I can't comment on what they do, but I think one point to keep in mind is that things are not just black or white: There many possibilities in between high carb diets and low carb diets to be explored!

I think simply that people should try out eating a bit less carbs and see if it benefits them. An easy way to start is simply to have a no-carb dinner, such as boiled chicken (or boiled eggs) and vegetables, or if you're a vegan, seitan and vegetables. This in itself is probably a big change for most people.

There's also the concept of having a cyclical eating pattern, so there doesn't always have to be this assumption that you have to eat exactly the same way every day. For example, one could diet strictly and eat less carbs for 4 days and then eat a bit more normally for one day and then repeat. The "refeed" day keeps your metabolism from slowing down and also puts you in a better mood.

While residing at the Jetavana monastery, the Buddha uttered Verse (204) of this book, with reference to King Pasenadi of Kosala.

One day, King Pasenadi of Kosala went to the Jetavana monastery after having his full morning meal. It was said that the king had eaten one quarter basket (about half a bushel) of rice with meat curry on that day; so while listening to the Buddha's discourse he felt very sleepy and was nodding most of the time. Seeing him nodding, the Buddha advised him to take a little less rice everyday and to decrease the amount on a sliding scale to the minimum of one-sixteenth part of the original amount he was taking. The king did as he was told and found that by eating less he became thin, and he felt very much lighter and enjoyed much better health. When he told the Buddha about this, the Buddha said to him, "O king! Health is a great boon; contentment is a great wealth; a close and trusted friend is the best relative; Nibbana is the greatest bliss."

tatpurusa wrote:One thing that should be taken care of, if one wants to reduce carbohydrate intake: one should NEVER substitute carbs by eating more proteins.Though burning proteins also produces energy, this is just as dangerous for our health as eating too much carbs. The energy for the body should come in the form of healthy fats, neither proteins, nor complex carbohydrates.So Atkins & Co., Palaeo etc. whith eating more meat are not the solution either.

A personal experience: I began eating a low-carb, high fat diet 8 months ago. I eat no bread, no rice, no pasta; a LOT of vegetables (but almost no high carb roots like potatoes, carrots etc.), little meat, some fish (about twice a week), some eggs, goat and sheep cheese, avocados, and quite a lot of virgin olive oil with almost everything.

That's the way I want to go. Oh, and don't forget regular full fat FAGE (or other brand) Greek yogurt, cottage cheese, ricotta and sour cream. Can we become roomies so you can keep me on the straight and narrow?

Worthy, wise and virtuous: Who is energetic and not indolent, in misfortune unshaken, flawless in manner and intelligent, such one will honor gain. - Digha Nikaya III 273

Luke wrote:Many people in the bodybuilding community have been eating 1 to 1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight for a long time without any ill effects (although I don't think I ever ate so much protein).

Eating a bit more protein certainly doesn't seem like such a disastrous thing.

Under regular training / bulking circumstances it's a diet of pretty much equal carbs and protein, lower fat. For contest cutting, the carbs, fat and total calories are reduced, protein is kept about the same for a short time for muscle-sparing until the contest is over. Then it's a pig-fest. But this is not a year-round method.

Worthy, wise and virtuous: Who is energetic and not indolent, in misfortune unshaken, flawless in manner and intelligent, such one will honor gain. - Digha Nikaya III 273

Jainarayan wrote:Exactly, and for a couple of reasons. Rabbit starvation being one, teaching the body to burn muscle and other tissue is another reason. When cutting down on carbs, the only other macro choice to increase is fat. http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/vegeta ... n-Diet.htm

What a surprise, an article by a vegetarian declaring that protein isn't very important! lol So many people just take sides with the extremes on the internet. There many degrees in between not increasing you protein at all and increasing your protein a lot. It is also possible to increase your protein intake a moderate amount.

Additionally, the activity level of the author was not specified. Nutritional needs depend largely on what you do with your body. For example, a person who lifts weights 4 times a week and runs 3 times a week will need more protein than a person who just walks his dog 10 minutes a day. lol So declaring that nobody needs to eat more protein just because sedentary people don't need to eat more protein is silly!

Right now, I'm just doing body weight exercises and running, so I eat less protein than when I was seriously lifting weights (but interestingly enough, I am maintaining most of my muscle size).

tatpurusa wrote:A personal experience: I began eating a low-carb, high fat diet 8 months ago. I eat no bread, no rice, no pasta; a LOT of vegetables (but almost no high carb roots like potatoes, carrots etc.), little meat, some fish (about twice a week), some eggs, goat and sheep cheese, avocados, and quite a lot of virgin olive oil with almost everything.

You might like to try eating some goose fat, too. This is something the Hungarians introduced me to. It sounds terrible to an American, but it is really quite delicious and it stays fresh for a very long time. When I occasionally eat a piece of bread or two, I spread a large amount of goose fat on it. I also eat fatty Hungarian bacon.

I lost 4 kg in a bit over a month just by eating more fat and less carbs for dinner and by running every few days. For breakfast and lunch, I eat some carbs, but I almost never eat pasta or potatoes. For carbs, I generally eat oatmeal, rice, and small amounts of bread.

I am in much better shape than when I was a vegetarian. When I was a vegetarian, I had to eat tons of rice, beans, pasta, and potatoes to keep from feeling hungry, and I was much fatter then.

Here's an interesting video about Rain training for his role in Ninja Assassin. He talks about his diet after about 3:15. He eats a lot of eggs and salmon, as well as nuts and seeds. Eventually, when I have more discipline, I should try something similar.

Luke wrote:You might like to try eating some goose fat, too. This is something the Hungarians introduced me to. It sounds terrible to an American, but it is really quite delicious and it stays fresh for a very long time. When I occasionally eat a piece of bread or two, I spread a large amount of goose fat on it. I also eat fatty Hungarian bacon.

I lost 4 kg in a bit over a month just by eating more fat and less carbs for dinner and by running every few days. For breakfast and lunch, I eat some carbs, but I almost never eat pasta or potatoes. For carbs, I generally eat oatmeal, rice, and small amounts of bread.

I am in much better shape than when I was a vegetarian. When I was a vegetarian, I had to eat tons of rice, beans, pasta, and potatoes to keep from feeling hungry, and I was much fatter then.

I do something similar to lose weight now. The easiest way is to have a huge job to do, like moving 10 tonnes of river stone or something. I cut down on my carbs in advance. Just before I take in about 3000 calories in heavy fat and protein and then work continuously until the work is complete. Usually by hour 6 I can smell the ketosis kicking in. When your body is accustomed to going into ketosis occasionally you can skip meals and not feel lightheaded. Even go a day without much food at all without the crazy carb craving. If you go too far the carb cravings come back with a vengeance though. Which can be fun since you know you can blow off the weight later.

Luke wrote:Here's an interesting video about Rain training for his role in Ninja Assassin. He talks about his diet after about 3:15. He eats a lot of eggs and salmon, as well as nuts and seeds. Eventually, when I have more discipline, I should try something similar.

-------------Sawaddee Ka..Luke,

Love the cute video...I must say that eggs/catfish/lean meat/fruits/veggies keep me not fat all these years.

I wonder if anyone here has heard or done the 5/2 diet. It is basically 5 days a week of eating 2000/2600 calories and 2 days a week of eating 500/600 calories. Don't know about ketosis but it made me feel very grumpy. I did lose some weight though.

Nemo wrote:lol, grumpiness and ketosis are often related. Eventually you adapt to it. You need to eat less than 150 grams of carbs a day to keep it going.

So, I did some reading. Ketosis is when you burn fat. This is accomplished by eating very little carbs. Where can a vegetarian find a good low-carb veg diet? BTW, I did buy some Krill oil on your suggestion. I hate to take pills but it seems to make me feel a little better.