Wasteland 2 by inXile entertainment Kickstarter update #4 features Brian Fargo channeling his inner Billy Joel to explain "We didn't start the fire." He says that while they are on the verge of the $1.5 million funding level that will permit them to create Linux and OS X editions of Wasteland 2, he does not foresee making console editions of the post-apocalyptic RPG sequel: "It is imperative that we deliver the core PC experience that the fans are expecting here and I want to avoid any elements that could distract us. The console interface is quite different when you consider the input device and proximity to the screen whereas the Mac and Linux are pretty much identical to that of the 'PC'. We will consider a tablet version due to the similarity of the screen and interface but even on that we need to do a bit more research." He also proposes a little Kickstarter socialism to help share the tremendous support some projects are receiving:

And speaking of goodwill it occurs to me that we can harness the power of Kickstarter in a more meaningful way. Fan funding is bigger than me or Wasteland 2 as I have remarked before. The development community has come together to support us in ways that I didn't think possible and our power as developers will ultimately come from us sticking together. Both gamers and developers have so much more strength than they realize. But in order to help facilitate the power of crowd funding I am going to suggest that all of us that do utilize this form of financing agree to kickback 5% of our profits made from such projects to other Kickstarter developers. I am not suggesting taking a backers money and moving it to another project.. I mean once a game has shipped and created profit that we funnel that back into the community of developers to fund their dreams. I am tentatively calling this "Kick It Forward" and I will be the first to agree to it. In fact, I will have our artists create a badge that goes on all Kickstarter projects that agree to support this initiative. Imagine the potential if another Minecraft comes along via Kickstarter and produces millions of dollars of investment into other developers. This economic payback will continue to grow the movement way beyond the current system. I hope others will join me with this idea and make this a true shakeup.

Jerykk wrote on Mar 23, 2012, 03:37:Releasing an indie game on consoles is nowhere near as cheap or easy as on PC. First, you have to get the game's concept approved by the console-maker. Then you need to acquire the hardware needed to develop the game. A single dev kit costs around $10,000. Publishers will loan you them for free but if you have to rely on a publisher, you aren't really indie. And if you do manage to finish development, you have to send it to be certified. If you pass certification, your game will finally end up on the console's marketplace... but you have no control over when it's released or how much it costs. And don't expect any kind of marketing support from the console-maker. 99.99% of console owners won't even know your game exists.

For independent developers, console development isn't worth the time or effort unless you have some sort of publisher backing.

Which is exactly why I think it should be a separate kickstarter. It would suck up too much resources (both money and time) from the current one. Fortunately, so far Fargo says he's not planning to do a console one because it would detract from the PC.

Good point, after the entire game is done (make solely for PC), he should hold a second kickstarter for console version and ipad/android version funding. Then use that money to convert the game (mostly the interface I'm guessing) to console. That way the PC version will be entirely unaffected by consolitis, and our backing money won't go towards such versions.

Releasing an indie game on consoles is nowhere near as cheap or easy as on PC. First, you have to get the game's concept approved by the console-maker. Then you need to acquire the hardware needed to develop the game. A single dev kit costs around $10,000. Publishers will loan you them for free but if you have to rely on a publisher, you aren't really indie. And if you do manage to finish development, you have to send it to be certified. If you pass certification, your game will finally end up on the console's marketplace... but you have no control over when it's released or how much it costs. And don't expect any kind of marketing support from the console-maker. 99.99% of console owners won't even know your game exists.

For independent developers, console development isn't worth the time or effort unless you have some sort of publisher backing.

Cutter wrote on Mar 21, 2012, 23:35:Dev, I know what he's saying. What I'm saying is that he wouldn't have that profit if it weren't for the people for invested. So him reinvesting his profits into something that people don't like may just turn them off from giving anyone else money in the future if they feel that the some of the profits of that investment are going to things they don't like. So yes, what he's proposing is a good thing, but should just be done quietly.

I may be misunderstanding what you said, but why would people care what he reinvests his money on? Would it make a difference if instead he bought a car for himself?

People are looking at Kickstarter as if they had any input in what happens with the money. It doesn't work like that for most projects, only if the reward is "you can create X character or Y gameplay feature". For the most part, people crowdfunding games are basically just pre-ordering the product. Of course it's all out of faith for whoever is developing it considering you don't have any kind of material to base your choice on. But still, Kickstarting a project doesn't make it your own at all.

Of course my point is completely moot if people do exactly the same with any other developer; you don't like their next game, you stop buying/supporting them altogether.

Cutter wrote on Mar 21, 2012, 23:35:Dev, I know what he's saying. What I'm saying is that he wouldn't have that profit if it weren't for the people for invested. So him reinvesting his profits into something that people don't like may just turn them off from giving anyone else money in the future if they feel that the some of the profits of that investment are going to things they don't like. So yes, what he's proposing is a good thing, but should just be done quietly.

Sorry, the way your post read it sounded as if you didn't (at least to me). I removed your quote from my other post, but I think its a point worth emphasizing so I'll leave most of the rest of the post up.

Dev, I know what he's saying. What I'm saying is that he wouldn't have that profit if it weren't for the people for invested. So him reinvesting his profits into something that people don't like may just turn them off from giving anyone else money in the future if they feel that the some of the profits of that investment are going to things they don't like. So yes, what he's proposing is a good thing, but should just be done quietly.

"There are two kinds of people in this world; people who love delis, and people you shouldn’t associate with.” - Damon Runyan

Since he said he's NOT using kickstarter funds to do this (above he said that "I am not suggesting taking a backers money and moving it to another project") then that's fine. He's only using FUTURE profits on the game, quote from above "once game has shipped". I.e., non kickstarter funds. So since that's his own earned money, he can do what he likes with it. I also don't think he's talking just 1 project, in fact, if he does it going forward, he will have a stream of incoming money that will end up going to various projects as time goes on.

Here's an example to clarify,

Lets say he gets $2 million from kickstarter. He spends all $2 million of kickstarter money on wasteland 2.There, he's done, all backer money was spent only on what they paid for.Now, after release he makes another $1 million in first year from steam sales. 5% of 1 million is $50,000. So, with that $50 grand he backs one or more kickstarter projects. 2nd year he makes $500,000. 5% of that is $25k. In the 2nd year he pays $25k towards more projects.

If enough devs pledge some of their FUTURE profits (NOT kickstarter funds) then this entire thing could be much more self sustaining as the projects grow in popularity. Thus the term he used, kick it forward.

Even if I don't like a particular project he kickstarts, as long as he does it with future profits earned after the game is done, I'm ok with it.

And what if there's nothing you want to fun, Bri? Or what if other people disagree with who your funding - it may prevent them from wanting to donate in future? It's a nice thought but one that should just be done quietly.

And Tim really just needs to talk to LA about allowing him to do another Grim Fandango! And someone needs to make a new Outlaws styled game!

"There are two kinds of people in this world; people who love delis, and people you shouldn’t associate with.” - Damon Runyan

jacobvandy wrote on Mar 21, 2012, 15:45:Double Fine is also trying to do theirs in a much shorter period of time. Last I checked, their estimated delivery is October OF THIS YEAR. Wasteland 2 will arrive October 2013.

That was before the 3 million. On the countdown livestream, I'm pretty sure he mumbled about working on the game "for about a year".

Creston wrote on Mar 21, 2012, 14:16:That said, when people requesting an iPad version also put up 1.5 million dollars, he can do whatever the hell he wants with an iPad version. Until that time, make a PC version.

Creston

Good point, after the entire game is done (make solely for PC), he should hold a second kickstarter for console version and ipad/android version funding. Then use that money to convert the game (mostly the interface I'm guessing) to console. That way the PC version will be entirely unaffected by consolitis, and our backing money won't go towards such versions.

TheEmissary wrote on Mar 21, 2012, 11:50:I have a feeling that the Double fine project is probably most likely the one to have issues because they haven't even said what the game will be. Brian Fargo's project already has design plan and knows exactly what they want to make. I also think the documentary for Tim Schafer's project might eat in to some of budget.

That was the entire POINT of the project. To start from nothing, and have it documented through the entire project, including missteps. I'm fairly certain thats unique on a project of that scale. Most documentaries are done at the end and in editing, the missteps are mostly removed.

And yes, of COURSE the documentary process will take up some of the money. He clearly said that on the kickstarter, as well as saying money past the goal would go to improving the game AND improving the documentaries

I understand that, What I was getting at out of the two major kickstarters the DoubleFine project has the most unknowns at the moment. Different philosophies. I think having a vision going in is going to help the Wasteland project. That isn't to say that what ever Tim Schafer comes up with won't be fun also.

How about your stop fucking around with "other versions" and focus on what you said you'd do, which is create an old-school PC RPG.

That's why I paid 50 bucks for. Not for you to waste time figuring out how to do a fucking iPad version.

Creston

Allright! Who just whooped Creston's ass in ME3 multi? Fess up!

Hehehehe. THE FUCKING GETH!

Nah, it's just work being shitty. That said, when people requesting an iPad version also put up 1.5 million dollars, he can do whatever the hell he wants with an iPad version. Until that time, make a PC version.

InBlack wrote on Mar 21, 2012, 11:03:Ive read a lot of hate directed at Fargo, that it was ultimately him who ran Interplay into the ground. Anyone know is that true or ultimately unfounded internet conjecture???

As promised, my writeup last time I saw false stuff like this:

Dev wrote on Dec 29, 2011, 15:37:No, he [Herve Caen] was the one that drove the company into the ground in the first place. He's sticking around to milk every last dollar from its corpse.

The company wasn't "sold" under Fargo. A french company Titus that was founded by Herve and Eric Caen, bought out interplay by purchasing a majority of their stock. Essentially a hostile takeover. That was in 2000. In 2002 they then forced out Fargo, and replaced him with Herve.

BTW, speaking of Fargo, he lent $3 million of his own money to interplay to try and get them through some trouble spots. You don't see that kinda thing being done by Caen bros.

By 2004 Interplay was evicted for nonpayment by the landlord and got in trouble with California gov for not paying employees and taxes.Then the french holding company went bankrupt in 2005 under the Caen brothers leadership. Herve hired his brother back at interplay a couple years ago. Spending more money annually on their salaries than Fallout MMO Development.

Black Isle (arguably the best part of interplay making their best games) developed most of the best of their games 2002 and earlier. Caen shut them down in 2003 right before christmas.

The last decent fallout game (tactics) came out early 2001. Immediately after taking over, Harve Caen then pushed interplay away from PC games into doing crappy console games such as fallout brotherhood of steel.

IMHO, not only did he drive them into the ground, he consolified them, and took all the money from their corpse that he could.

Seriously, look at the financials. Interplay (aka the Caen brothers) spent a grand total of ONE million dollars on fallout MMO development in 4 years, while taking millions in direct salary (not counting bonuses and options).

How about your stop fucking around with "other versions" and focus on what you said you'd do, which is create an old-school PC RPG.

That's why I paid 50 bucks for. Not for you to waste time figuring out how to do a fucking iPad version.

Creston

Probably because many of the backers are asking about it?From RTFA:

"One of the (more common) questions I am asked is whether we'll support console and I believe it to be unlikely."

If the backers on kickstarter will stop blithering about wanting a console version (and ipad and android and blah blah), perhaps he can concentrate on the PC version. I am more than satisfied with Fargo's answer about not wanting to screw up the game making it for consoles.

"Around 6:00 that first night we received an email from a wealthy software industry individual who is a passionate fan of Wasteland and offered to help fund the game if Kickstarter came short!"

InBlack wrote on Mar 21, 2012, 11:03:Ive read a lot of hate directed at Fargo, that it was ultimately him who ran Interplay into the ground. Anyone know is that true or ultimately unfounded internet conjecture???

The people who think/say that are ignorant or morons.

It was caen bro's (they kicked fargo out, took over, and killed interplay).

Look at their behavior. Fargo loaned interplay his own money to keep it going. One caen recently hired his bro as the only other VP and they continue to get large salaries even today from interplay's corpse.

Maybe I should go and repost my long writeup about what happened.

TheEmissary wrote on Mar 21, 2012, 11:50:I have a feeling that the Double fine project is probably most likely the one to have issues because they haven't even said what the game will be. Brian Fargo's project already has design plan and knows exactly what they want to make. I also think the documentary for Tim Schafer's project might eat in to some of budget.

That was the entire POINT of the project. To start from nothing, and have it documented through the entire project, including missteps. I'm fairly certain thats unique on a project of that scale. Most documentaries are done at the end and in editing, the missteps are mostly removed.

And yes, of COURSE the documentary process will take up some of the money. He clearly said that on the kickstarter, as well as saying money past the goal would go to improving the game AND improving the documentaries

Tumbler wrote on Mar 21, 2012, 12:34:I think we're seeing AAA titles shipping where they spend 30 to 40 million on the upper end? If only 10% of that is development costs you only need to raise $3 million or so and you're in the same ballpark as AAA titles.

Try closer to $100 million. I think more than 10% is actual real development costs, but I agree that a large chunk isn't. There are a couple main things taking up a big chunk (in terms of real development). One is hiring big names to do things with sound, such as famous bands for music, or famous voice actors, etc. The other is graphics. Its EXPENSIVE to do graphics, even good console graphics for obsolete hardware.

That $3 million of Tim's project is going towards a point and click adventure, not a shooter, so the costs are less. Even so, he's repeatedly said that the budgets they had at lucasarts for point and click adventures were more in the $10-$20 million range.