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Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

I am considering a in depth post about why I think JOB is a good coach - and I still might get around to it. Really though I think this is all I need to say. O'Brien is the one who basically cut and got rid of Glenn Robinson while in Philly - he pretty much ended his career. I don't think anything more needs to be said.

Really though the fact that JOB is the primary reason JT isn't playing this season - that is all the evidence I need that O'Brien is an excellent coach. Coach will always have a special place in my heart for ushering Jamaal out the door.

Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

UB,

I generally agree with you on most things Pacers (no proof here yet due to my short tenure as a posting member) based on my longtime reading of your postings when I came here as a lurker for years. Respectfully, I would submit the following for consideration:

What about the legions of season ticketholders who demanded of the Pacers that both JO and JT had to go no matter what during focus groups, complaints to ticket reps, and negotiating ticket deals for this season that went on prior to the end of last season? Do you really believe that OB is the primary reason that JT is not playing? There is a remarkable similarity (on the court) between the late game offensive play of Jarrett Jack and what we saw from Jamaal not long before he was benched. At times, it works for Jarrett, just like at times it worked for Jamaal. I believe that OB was forced to stop playing JT due to pressure from TPTB, not of his own volition, and that the player who most embodies the same offensive tendencies that Jamaal had is Jack, which is why he is used as our game finishing point guard despite his penchant for making mental mistakes, especially in pressure situations.

Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

What about the legions of season ticketholders who demanded of the Pacers that both JO and JT had to go no matter what during focus groups, complaints to ticket reps, and negotiating ticket deals for this season that went on prior to the end of last season?
Do you really believe that OB is the primary reason that JT is not playing?

There is a remarkable similarity (on the court) between the late game offensive play of Jarrett Jack and what we saw from Jamaal not long before he was benched. At times, it works for Jarrett, just like at times it worked for Jamaal. I believe that OB was forced to stop playing JT due to pressure from TPTB, not of his own volition, and that the player who most embodies the same offensive tendencies that Jamaal had is Jack, which is why he is used as our game finishing point guard despite his penchant for making mental mistakes, especially in pressure situations.

Let me address each of your points -I think O'Brien is the primary reason but certainly not the only rason JT isn't playing. The other reasons being what you site and Bird

I can see where you are coming from comparing Jack and Tinsley - however, they are vastly different players. Tinsley has point guard skills, Jack does not. Jack plays defense Jamaal does not. Jack plays hard all the time Jamaal does not. Jack plays hurt, JT does not. They are vastly different players. Also Jack is a backup. - Overall I don't see any simarities between the two

Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

I am considering a in depth post about why I think JOB is a good coach - and I still might get around to it. Really though I think this is all I need to say. O'Brien is the one who basically cut and got rid of Glenn Robinson while in Philly - he pretty much ended his career. I don't think anything more needs to be said.

Really though the fact that JOB is the primary reason JT isn't playing this season - that is all the evidence I need that O'Brien is an excellent coach. Coach will always have a special place in my heart for ushering Jamaal out the door.

I would truly hope the criteria of being a good coach is more than how JO'B has dealt with Robinson and Tinsley. That's like saying Zeke was a good coach b/c how he handled players by buying them out.

The Big Dawg probably thanks O'Brien for his leaving Philly where he went on to be able to be on a championship Spurs team and wears a championship ring.

Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

After watching the single worst performance of a player during the PHO game, and then Jamaal starting and playing large mins the two games after, then getting a non-supension suspsion, only to start and play 35mins the next night tells me all I need to know about JOb and his discipline with JT.

With Bird cleaning house in regards to other players with discipline problems, or just needing to get out of Indy in general, how you think he didn't pull the plug confuses me.

For all the feel good quotes Jim had when he was hired on about earning playing time, and how he wasn't gonna deal with bad behavior on/off the court, he sure hasn't lived up to it. With him playing JT after PHO, with no recourse other than a non-suspension suspension, and finding out JO wasn't practicing, while starting and playing shows he's all talk.

If we set up a list for coaches and ranked them, he's definately at the lower end of spectrum.

Come on, this is the organization where Versace is not in the "bottom two". It is easy to throw O'Brien in the middle of the pack when you look at the bottom four or five coaches in team history.

O'Brien is neither the problem nor the solution. Which is actually true for a large number of NBA coaches. But some of those guys never get a decent roster (Wittman, Randy) and others are overrated because they've generally had good rosters (Johnson, Avery).

Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

Come on, this is the organization where Versace is not in the "bottom two". It is easy to throw O'Brien in the middle of the pack when you look at the bottom four or five coaches in team history.

O'Brien is neither the problem nor the solution. Which is actually true for a large number of NBA coaches. But some of those guys never get a decent roster (Wittman, Randy) and others are overrated because they've generally had good rosters (Johnson, Avery).

A piece of my mind

I had to get it off my chest. I like JOb and everything, and think he's a decent coach, but i don't know how much more i can take of him being our head coach. I really don't like the idea of firing a coach during the season, but i think that if this team keeps losing games that are so close, then a change is needed on the bench.

I really liked Avery Johnson in Dallas. Ever since he was fired, I wanted him to come to indiana. I think his style of play is exciting to watch, and defensive minded. I'm not freaking out here calling for obrien's head, what i'm saying is I think AJ would be a much better fit for this team. Anybody agree?

Re: A piece of my mind

I agree, im not happy with JOB at all, but we have to think about how long his contract is remaining and how much money he is due? Does anyone know?

I also like Avery, im totally for getting him. But I think it all depends on JOB's contract, the Pacers organization isnt going to through money around for coaches. Avery's style would be would be totally different from JOB's. Avery is a defensive minded coach, and JOB is just all over the place

"So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.

Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

He doesn't have talent my butt. Yeah they're not gonna win a title but they have enough talent to be better than they are. I don't even post on this board anymore because of this stupid JOB love affair that some of you have. JOB isn't even average as a coach. Calling JOB average is a complete insult to average coaches everywhere. His mind boggling decisions and late game substitutions are a joke. He doesn't have a go to play that will get you a bucket out of a timeout, and even if he did he'd draw it up for Jarrett Jack. He gives minutes to players that don't deserve them. I've made it clear that in my opinion JOB isn't even fit to coach in a YMCA youth league, and I've seen nothing out of him this season to change my mind.

Tonights finish sort of makes this look like **** doesn't it? Oh well Im willing to man up and admit that they didn't completely suck in the 4th and that JOB was at least part of the reason for that. It is only one game though...

Re: A piece of my mind

Why would Avery come to Indiana?

The Suns will likely be in the market for a coach soon. I think there is a good chance Detroit will be, too. Popovich and Sloan aren't getting any younger and the same goes for Phil Jackson. Hell, I could even see someone spurning us for the Golden State job.

Re: A piece of my mind

So much whining about the coaching. It's really growing tiresome. John Wooden could coach this team and we still wouldn't be .500. Everyone needs to calm down and just let the rebuilding take its course.

(Irvine never had any talent, but was horrible. Zeke actually destroyed talent.)

Look, I'm no fan of Thomas, and I'll give credit to Reggie and Jalen for this, but he made the playoffs all three years and the first couple of years they probably should not have. And I think he did develop talent - JO and Tinsley, Harringon, even Artest made much more progress under him than under any other coach before or after that. Still his game-time coaching would put him near the bottom of any respectable list, but there were some positives from his era. With Irvine, there were none.

Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

Re: A piece of my mind

There's no point, this team is far from being a "contender" regardless of who's coaching. Let Jim finish his job.

Definitely not a contender for a title, but I think they are actually pretty close to being a midlevel eastern conference team, 4 to 6 seed range. I think that's also a big part of why people are a bit upset. They see all of these close losses and see that the P's really aren't all that bad they just need one or two more plays per game to go their way and wonder why it never happens.

Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

Look, I'm no fan of Thomas, and I'll give credit to Reggie and Jalen for this, but he made the playoffs all three years and the first couple of years they probably should not have. And I think he did develop talent - JO and Tinsley, Harringon, even Artest made much more progress under him than under any other coach before or after that. Still his game-time coaching would put him near the bottom of any respectable list, but there were some positives from his era. With Irvine, there were none.

"Destroyed" may have been the wrong word. He severely impaired talent with his in-game coaching. I thought all three of his teams underachieved.

Re: A piece of my mind

I remember all the whining about Rick Carlisle. Personally, I never really understood that. I do understand the displeasure with watching this joke of a system.

If you look at our offense we have abolutely no one in the middle. Theres 5 players on the perimeter. If we're lucky, we'll have Foster or Hibbert near the free throw line, otherwise we're a straight jump shooting team. Our one dimensional offense is a joke

"So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.

Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

Tonights finish sort of makes this look like **** doesn't it? Oh well Im willing to man up and admit that they didn't completely suck in the 4th and that JOB was at least part of the reason for that. It is only one game though...

We did completely suck in the 4th and a lot of it was Obies fault. What game were you watching? Tonight was one of Obie's worst games as a coach, I have a feeling that if he lost tonight he woulda been done at the end of the season. I'm afraid as of now Bird likes Obie too much to fire him.

Re: A piece of my mind

If you look at our offense we have abolutely no one in the middle. Theres 5 players on the perimeter. If we're lucky, we'll have Foster or Hibbert near the free throw line, otherwise we're a straight jump shooting team. Our one dimensional offense is a joke

Our "system" on offense does tend to put up some points, so it's not all bad. It's really the inability, at times, to convert tough shots in the fourth quarter using the "system" and the inability, almost all the time, to stop anybody in the fourth quarter.

Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

We did completely suck in the 4th and a lot of it was Obies fault. What game were you watching? Tonight was one of Obie's worst games as a coach, I have a feeling that if he lost tonight he woulda been done at the end of the season. I'm afraid as of now Bird likes Obie too much to fire him.

Re: A piece of my mind

Our "system" on offense does tend to put up some points, so it's not all bad. It's really the inability, at times, to convert tough shots in the fourth quarter using the "system" and the inability, almost all the time, to stop anybody in the fourth quarter.

I dont have faith in it no more. Its good through out 3 quarters but after that we're just stagnant, the defense figures us our pretty easy. We have our Cs standing at the free throw line where other teams are just giving them 3-5 feet to do nothing

"So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.