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I can't say I disagree there. I love GW2, as anyone on this site who's had any dealing with me can attest. However, the lack of Elite Skills, and the quest to get them, is the single biggest flaw in the game for me.

I loved not only using the skills when I got them, but hunting for them in GW1. I really wish they would bring that back. While I don't mind the "dumbing down" of the skill set for GW2, I think having the extra Elites for each profession to hunt down and aquire would satisfy most of that quest for power you were talking about.

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Dispite the number of elites after 3 campaigns, each profession only had a couple of useful elites.

Some of them only acquired realy late in the game.

Only after many updates, nerfs, buffs and changes did you get some variety.

I don't mind more skills (and traits) but I get the impression many of these players complaining about the lack of skills are also the same that use the same build all the time and are more obsessed with numbers (stats, number of skills) than actually trying different builds and playstyles.

Especially those that hit level 30 or 40 and say they get nothing else considering there are still many things to choose from and acquire - GM traits. runes, sigils. food you using.

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Any kind of progression would have been good for end game. Gear not being the only thing but like Bill said skills, hundreds of skills to choose from to define your character. Right now its just plain bland and I can't even log in anymore, I look at the Gw2 icon on my desktop and just get a sinking feeling in my stomach lol.

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Originally posted by Kuppa

I completely agree, but I am a bit torn on the subject. You see there is a reason Anet didn't include tons of skills and allow you to freely pick between them and have a secondary class like in GW1. It's because of the pvp. Therein lies the problem, you either balance for pvp and create shallower "progression" or have a hard as heck time balancing pvp and provide good horizontal progression.

I always felt GW1 was a pvp game first and foremost. That's why I didn't really care too much about pve in it after I finished the story line, besides the pvp in GW1 was pretty damn good and the pve was just ok. But when I saw their approach for skills in GW2 I was SO HAPPY that they were thinking about balance. Until I played the game and figured out that the pve in it is also super fun, but because of that design decision it is also extremely limited in progression. I could see a skill system like the one in GW1 flourish in the game that is GW2, but I would hate to see it affect pvp the way it would.

I'll admit my question is probably naive. But why do you have to balance PVP? Shouldn't it be the strongers (or best build) survives? I can imagine today the 'best' builds would be posted to the Internet, but in the end wouldn't it come down to player experience (who could best play the class)?

I dont know. Someone who can throw fireballs should have an easier time against a guy trying to close in with a sword. It would be up to the sword-wielder to develop a strategy to win.

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Good read but there's a bigger issue here everyone is ignoring including the writer of this article. People can't easily get the exotics anymore just by working their way around the open world like they were able to in the beginning. You can't simply go out farm some mats and then return to town and make something anymore. They stealth nerfed or broke something in the open world to the point where it appears that's all they want us to do is run a single dungeon or pay RL money on gems convert it to gold and then spend the gold on the already broken TP (their version of the AH) to buy the mats or buy the already made armors outright.

The first month was fine, they shouldn't have changed a thing. I dunno who took over the management over there but they need to be fired for incompetence

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I agree with Suzie. For me, this was the main reason why I lost interest in GW2. I should have realized it in beta when I didnt feel the urge to login when I was level 11. I brushed it off as I didnt want to see all the content before lauch. Post launch I got to level 26 and couldnt figure out the point for me to go on.

Thats when I realized I'm the type of gamer who LIKES progression. I play RPGs to grow my character from a lowly level one to mighty max level. Not being able to feel that took some of the bite out for me.

I give ANet props for making a quality MMO (it is beautiful), but everything they tried to do different were all the things I missed.

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In GW2 the bosses are defeated and then a chest appears, they are not protecting the chest, the thing materializes like a gift from the gods when the event ends, and I wish it was one so it could make some sense but it isn't, also the content of the chests is not as good as an elite skill that you obtain from the corpse of a defeated boss.

Why have more gear as a reward when you already get that from everything else in the game?

Even if I decide, not to care about that, every victory is shared with the community, it wasn't your strategy, it was merely your contribution what made a difference, you couldn't have tried anything smart by yourself because more passing byers would rush to find this new event and they would end it for you, the challenge would suddenly become a matter of superior numbers (yes I know that the events are supposed to change as more people arrive but I don't think that they were able to create a perfect balance for everyone), in the original instanced GW, you could get a team and depend on each other for specific things, so everyone would feel indispensable, this got to the point where you would need to control a bunch of npcs or collaborate with some players and their npcs to be able to succeed but at least you felt you had some real influence (Idc about the state of the world if I am not the one responsible for it, and if I am helping in a "dynamic event" its not because I really want to make a difference, because I care, it is because I get karma points [we are being forced to help]). Maybe if there were way less players or way more events things could be different, I haven't tried the game for a while and I don't know if that is already the case or if that will ever be the case. Maybe I would have liked more a karma system that wasn't about points, if I couldn't choose how to spend it, if I could know about it's existance and feel a difference but never quantifying it and saving it for later, that would have been interesting and mystifying, you know if they also had created negative karma, but they wanted all of us to be heroes, that is just great... everyone can be perfectly good and happy to see new players that want to help you... except some of us hate it.

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Originally posted by shingoukiehI know this might be irrelevant but what about MOUNTS? Mounts usually are in every mmorpg...they could even make u have new skills while mounted...I mean I'm sure a lot of people would want to get one

as fair as this is to ask.it a backwards progression for an mmo- map hit point of interest and go- enjoy the zones on foot. a better intake-i had mounts in wow cataclism and missed alot of the changes they spent time on that expansion made the game boring and dull.

by foor you get to join in the random events GW2 has to offer per zone-and they are fun!-besides so many people would be exploting those jumping puzzles...on mounts.

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Originally posted by orbitxo

Originally posted by shingoukiehI know this might be irrelevant but what about MOUNTS? Mounts usually are in every mmorpg...they could even make u have new skills while mounted...I mean I'm sure a lot of people would want to get one

as fair as this is to ask.it a backwards progression for an mmo like GW2- fast travel to point of interest=n play!- enjoy the zones on foot. a better intake-i had mounts in wow cataclism and missed alot of the changes they spent time on that expansion made the game boring and dull.

by foot you get to join in the random events GW2 has to offer per zone-and they are fun!-besides so many people would be exploting those jumping puzzles...on mounts.

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This is what bugs me about GW2. I love the mechanics, but when I PVP and come out with slightly different gear that does *nothing* every 10 ranks, it leaves me wondering why I even play. Horizontal advancement is refreshing, considering how most game ms have vertical advancement only, but the real thing deva need to do is marry the two. A good blend of horizontal and vertical advancdment is essential to push the genre ahead.

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GW2 is a PvP focused game, to an extreme level when compared to similar titles. There really isn't much point to hitting 80 other than to PvP without scaling, because while scaling is pretty good in GW2, being level80 provides some advantages for PvP. Look at "end-game" content in GW2 - a series of easymode dungeons with pretty much identical gear, no raids except for open world event bosses(The Ice Dragon comes to mind, not sure if there are more that's the only one I've done). But PvP? Multiple ranked gear sets. Multiple small AND large scale arenas. GW2 is a PvP MMO wrapped in a shiny PvE package to pull in players who then leave because the only thing to do at 80 is PvP.

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"It’s an amazing game, and gives you that feeling that your character is constantly progressing as you play, until you hit level 80."

Funny, I don't feel the difference from being lvl 30 to being lvl 80 during PvE gameplay. It is all the same. You only have to buy new gear from time to time until you reach your exotics, but playing the game feels all the same. The feeling of "progressing" is just a point set to the traits and more often the not you don't even feel the difference.

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"There it was, this game had strategy! It played like an MMO, a player activated skills to fight off enemies, but this game offered hundreds of skills for you to use. The possibilities seemed endless. "

"To unlock the elite skills you first had to kill the boss that used it, proving you were worthy of such power. Once you unlocked more skills you could try new things. If something didn’t work out, or you found another profession combination that worked better, you could switch points and skills around. Your character, and you as a player, were constantly evolving and getting stronger. Your gear was the same, stat wise, as the next guy’s. But it was how you played and used the gear that set you apart. "

You took every word out of my mouth. Thank you!.

I have said it before and I'll say it again. I played GW1 since released up until GW2 launched and what you said above was the sole reason why I kept playing GW1. I just wish they had kept some of that in GW2! Don't get me wrong... I love GW2 but would I still be playing it after maxing out all my characters and finish everything in the maps 3-5 years from now? I do not know. All I know is the skill system kept me glued to GW1.

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I have to agree, Anet needs to release more skills, preferably ones you get by capping as in GW1. I hope they decide to go that way with the first expansion.

The basic game of GW2 is fun and you can see that they put a lot of work into the game but it feels like builds and combos make little difference compared to in the original game. I remember making special builds to beat certain really hard challenges so specific they only worked for that. It was pretty fun to figure out all that stuff.

Dual classing I dont miss though, but add 15 more regular skills and 30 elite skills you need to cap for each class and the game will be a lot more fun after you reached levelcap.

Then again, GW1 needed Factions and Nightfall to really become fun long term so hopefully will GW2 becomes a lot more fun long term with more content as well. Smaller free updates just aint enough for that.

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I don't understand why you guys are comparing GW to GW2, honestly I loved GW but I just didn't and don't see it as an mmorpg, for me it's just a different genre and so I don't really think that they should be compared but well I guess that's just me.

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Originally posted by BillMurphy

Originally posted by QSatuI really hope they will add a lot of new ultility skills. And I would love some better elite skills which maybe aren't that powerfull but like in 1st GW they would define my character build. I miss this part of character building from 1st game.

This, exactly.

GW2 is build with supreme scalability in mind. PVP scales, WVW scales. There's no reason progression of skills couldn't be never-ending, as long as ArenaNet could add in tons of skills.

I'd take multi-classing in PvE and WvW. Leave it disabled for the eSports. Would love to do the multi-classing we saw in GW1, balance nightmare that it was. But that's what the controlled part of sPVP is for.