(to be honest, tho, there is a part of me that always peeks up to ask why those who know truth...would sell it?)

A very good question, Chuck. I'd encourage you to consider that deeply. As you are considering, consider the implications, if this is correct, about the realities these folks have created. What DO they tell themselves, day after day, to justify this?

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The point you make about personality vs soul is well taken, and helps me understand 'reality-creationers better. But they provide a valuable lesson along the path, don't you think? Where 'religion' conditions us to think we are separate and powerless, the Chopras, et all encourage us to take responsibility for our thoughts, words and actions.

That is true. All that's being said here is these beliefs as they have been laid out are not the complete truth - they are partially true. Proof is, in the actual lives of people who practice this philosophy, in many cases they are not creating the reality they think they want even though they are doing everything you are supposed to do. If a belief or explanation does not work IN ALL CASES it can't be complete truth. Full truth correlates with the actual reality experienced in the lives of all people in all cases.

I will use Create Your Own Reality authors as an example. For every one who "makes it", there are 99 who don't. They all passionately believe and practice Create Your Own Reality principles. Their desire to help people in most cases is genuine. They also generally want to "make a great living", become well known, doing something they feel is helping people in a positive way.

Why is it 1% achieve that and 99% don't? They all passionately practice Create Your Own Reality principles, do the work, write the book, find the agent, get the speaking gigs. They are doing everything you are supposed to do yet it doesn't happen. If it is true that we can create any reality that we want, how do you explain this?

When I restate the principle as "You can create any reality you want that is within the Soul's program", all of a sudden we have an explanation of why this does not happen in many cases. Using the tools of EA we can even see within a chart the likelihood of whether a desired reality is within the Soul's program.

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Maybe I'm all wet, but we are encouraged to 'trust ourselves'. What then does this mean if not to go with what, thru observation and experience, feels right?

Nothing in what I wrote suggested you should not go for what feels right to you. All I said is sometimes, in the end, you are not going to wind up with the reality you thought you wanted to create. Nothing in that statement says you shouldn't try. How else will you learn what your Soul's program is? How will you know whether something is aligned with it unless you pursue what you feel drawn to?

Another good example is John McCain. The guy REALLY wanted to be President. He did everything he knew how to create that reality, even willing to lie through his teeth. In the end he did not create the reality he wanted. It was just not in the program. Was it wrong that he tried?

Another way to say this is we can't be attached to outcome. The value is in the effort, not in the outcome. Through following the impulses of what feels right we learn more about Self.

How often have we realized after completing a phase in life that turned out other than expected that it was actually good that it turned out as it did? Yet we never would have pursued the objective, at the beginning, had we known how it was going to turn out, because that was not a reality we would have wanted to create. The Soul had its outcome in mind, and what we wind up with is the necessary outcome instead of the desired outcome. In the end we realize that how it worked out was actually in our best interest.

30 years ago Swami Muktananda was my guru for a few years. I received his grace, the awakening of shaktipat, met him in person, and also witnessed his deep love and heart-wrenching grief when he spoke about his own guru, Nityananda.

He taught the Yoga of Kundalini (spiritual energy) and Gurukripa (grace of the Guru), which correlate to the Root and Crown Chakras.

Adina, I think you said that progressive spiritual enlightenment works on the level of "vibration".

I always felt Nityananda's vibration to be very powerful and wondered whether he had reached the final stage of realisation: but of course I'm not sure. Do you know?

Where would these Siddha Gurus fit in line with our discussion on spiritual stages?

I want to share with ya'll that Maurice Fernandez's new book "Astrology and the Evolution of Consciousness" has within it the best description of evolutionary states I have encountered so far. He gives various theoretical examples and stories of sun and moon signs in different evolutionary states. It literally came out a couple weeks ago, I highly recommend it!

He's controversial - mainly the veracity of the Don Juan books. There are many contradictions (or you could call them lies) in & about his books. For instance, when he describes being somehwhere with Don Juan, in reality he's sitting in the library with all sorts of shamanistic books, history, etc. Hmmmm.......Also, one of his more well-known exploits attributed to Don Juan really happened to Ramon Silva Medina - an authentic Huichol medicine man...however, if I'm not mistaken, Carlos witnessed that & apparently got on well with R.Medina.

Later, CC eschewed Peyote saying it was destructive...which seems totally bogus to me...he apparently lied about his illness & concocted some silliness about what would happen when he died. There was a handful of women who left their lives as they knew it & changed their names etc. & devoted themselves to him....they all mysteriously disappeared after CC death - one being found near her abandoned car in a severely degraded physical form.

Just a couple of things from his chart - he has Juptier conjunct south node in 9th Cap - easy to see the shamanistic qualities...however, also the lies & need to take responsibility for those lies - and how he assumed responsibility for others actual achievements/reality. Saturn with mars in 7th of Scorpio ties into the preceding & the nature of his relationships - describes pretty well the situation with those women. His Pluto placement, & the placement of ruler could show his self-involvement, narcissism, etc. Well...I'm clearly taking a negative view - so, what do you folks think? 2nd stage? Deluded by evil? Lucifer is retro in the second of gemini....clear to see there too his lies within his writings.......