This is another one of Trump's head-bangingly-stupid policy moves, like his fear of Iran.

I can't think of any logical explanation for either one of his POVs except undue influence by the Israeli government on Trump, via Jared Kushner who is a die-hard Zionist, and who has invested in illegal West Bank settlements*.

I said, even before the election, that Trump's foreign policies were primitive; that he could not possibly square his stated desire to make nice with Russia with his hostility towards Iran, a major Russian partner in the Mideast. I believe what I posted at the time was that Trump would be bitch-slapped by reality. On this particular move, the bitch-slapping has yet to happen.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

RAPPY, I can't imagine why anyone would think this is a "good thing" but I'd be interested in your take on why that is so.

In the meantime, negative reaction from the world is rolling in, most notably from Saudi Arabia.

It's not that KSA isn't a backstabbing, regressive, jihadist-supporting monarchy, but we still have the petrodollar to consider and KSA is our financial partner on the other end of that deal. UP UNTIL NOW the KSA has kept out of any concerns about eh Palestinians.

Perhaps Trump is counting on the fact that the current defacto (palace coup) leader- Mohamed bin Salman - is still trying to stitch his powerbase into place and can't engage in YET ANOTHER battle. Perhaps Trump is counting on the fact that any reaction by the Saudis to de-dollarize would critically damage the Saudi sovereign wealth fund too. Maybe Trump is offering the Saudis a deal which will limit the recognition of Jerusalem as the capital to WEST Jerusalem as a reward.

In any case, this is the KSA's reaction:

Quote:The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia's Royal Court Issues a Statement Following Jerusalem Announcement
December 06, 2017

The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia followed, with great disappointment, the announcement made by the President of the United States Donald Trump, recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and relocating the United States’ embassy to Jerusalem.

The Government of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia had previously warned of the serious consequences of such an irresponsible and unwarranted step. The Kingdom expresses its denunciation and deep regret that the administration has taken this step, as it represents a great bias against the historic and permanent rights of the Palestinian people in Jerusalem, which have been affirmed by the relevant international resolutions and have been recognized and supported by the international community.

Although this step does not change or infringe upon the inalienable and preserved rights of the Palestinian people in Jerusalem, and other occupied territories, and even though it cannot impose a new reality upon those rights, it does however exemplify a drastic regression in the efforts to move the peace process forward, and is a shift away from the United States' historically impartial position with regard to the issue of Jerusalem, which will further complicate the Palestinian -Israeli conflict.

The Government of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia hopes that the U.S administration will reverse this action, and support the international will to enable the Palestinian people to regain their legitimate rights. Furthermore, the Kingdom reaffirms the importance of finding a just and lasting solution to the Palestinian cause in accordance with the relevant international resolutions, and the Arab Peace Initiative, so that the Palestinian people can regain their legitimate rights, which will strengthen security and stability in the region.

Why isn't it a good thing? Every nation has the right to choose it's own capital. And Jerusalem has been the centre of Jewish people since the very start. It's never been the capital of any other nation.

It is an extreme logical disconnect to claim that - because other people will freak out about it, it's not a good idea. Sorry, there quite possibly has never been so arbitrary and nonsensical as that positon. The Jews want it. Russia wants it. WE want it... screw anyone else who has a problem.

Trump’s decision on Jerusalem is the latest example of how special interest groups, rather than US voters or long-term American diplomatic goals, can drive policy. Analysts say wealthy donors, influential lobby groups, and a far-right Christian fringe put pressure on a president eager to show he’s fulfilling his campaign promises.

A White House spokesman didn’t respond to questions about Trump’s rationale for making the move.

Donors Sheldon Adelson and Miriam Ochsorn

Just as deep-pocketed donors to the Republican party had a huge impact on the hastily-written tax reform bill that’s now being reconciled in Congress, they have put direct pressure on the US president to change US policy in Israel.

Most prominent are casino magnate Sheldon Adelson and his wife Miriam Ochsorn, the largest individual Republican donors in 2016, who coughed up $83 million. Adelson failed to back Trump initially in the Republican race, but made an abrupt about-face during the primary, earning the couple a seat at Trump’s inauguration.

Moving the US embassy to Jerusalem has long been one of the couple’s goals—one that is particularly important for Ochsorn, some say, who was born in British-ruled Palestine. “There’s a theory that Miriam is the real driver on a lot of these issues,” said Michael Green, a history professor at the University of Nevada. She may be the one that “really has a greater ideological commitment” than her husband. Thanks to their donations, both Adelson and Ochsorn can “pick up the phone and call the White House,” Green said. . . .

The couple had a private dinner at the White House on October 2, where they discussed the Las Vegas shooting the day before, but also pushed Trump on relocating the embassy, the New York Times reported (paywall). Adelson’s spokesman didn’t return requests for comment.

You knew all this was coming when you voted and campaigned for Trump, so you can't complain about it now. You just decided that all of the above was a price worth paying for the stuff you wanted - Trump's ripping up of free trade deals, trashing of NATO and general buddying up to Putin.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:Originally posted by kpo:

Quote:This is another one of Trump's head-bangingly-stupid policy moves, like his fear of Iran.

All just orthodox, GOP head-banging stupidity.

Republicans have a very different definition of "stupid" than you or I. For example there is Rene Omokri, who said he was now willing to die for Trump (May God grant him his wish for martyrdom):

Reno Omokri @renoomokri

Has @realDonaldTrump fulfilled biblical prophesy by recognizing Jerusalem as Israel’s capital? I have been praying for this day for long and if I supported Donald Trump before, today, I go one step further and declare that I am even willing to take a bullet for him.

" The Rich " aren't getting massive tax cuts. The tax changes are necessary and brilliant. Only they don't go far enough.
OCare was sabotaged from the start. It was built on a house of lies, and that's been admitted to by those who gave it to us. No need to allow it to exist.
Climate denialism is true science. Not some phony political socialist scam.
Zionism by a Nazi lover ? OMFG !! Make up your damn minds !!!
Tensions need to be ratcheted up w/ Iran / N Korea. They both need to be slapped down.

* As for Jeruselam ? All Trump did was state the obvious. Israel has been using it as their capital anyways. It's never NOT be the center of the Jewish state. It's never ever been the capital of any other nation. Clinton Bush43, Obama...all signed off on this , but then wussed out, because they were too scared of the big bad Muzzies. F them. It's Israel's choice, and all Trump did was say ' Yep, that's your capital '. It's really a non freakin issue.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM:
This is another one of Trump's head-bangingly-stupid policy moves, like his fear of Iran.

I can't think of any logical explanation for either one of his POVs except undue influence by the Israeli government on Trump, via Jared Kushner who is a die-hard Zionist, and who has invested in illegal West Bank settlements*.

" The Rich " aren't getting massive tax cuts. The tax changes are necessary and brilliant. Only they don't go far enough.
OCare was sabotaged from the start. It was built on a house of lies, and that's been admitted to by those who gave it to us. No need to allow it to exist.
Climate denialism is true science. Not some phony political socialist scam.
Zionism by a Nazi lover ? OMFG !! Make up your damn minds !!!
Tensions need to be ratcheted up w/ Iran / N Korea. They both need to be slapped down.

* As for Jeruselam ? All Trump did was state the obvious. Israel has been using it as their capital anyways. It's never NOT be the center of the Jewish state. It's never ever been the capital of any other nation. Clinton Bush43, Obama...all signed off on this , but then wussed out, because they were too scared of the big bad Muzzies. F them. It's Israel's choice, and all Trump did was say ' Yep, that's your capital '. It's really a non freakin issue.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Trump’s decision on Jerusalem is the latest example of how special interest groups, rather than US voters or long-term American diplomatic goals, can drive policy. Analysts say wealthy donors, influential lobby groups, and a far-right Christian fringe put pressure on a president eager to show he’s fulfilling his campaign promises.

A White House spokesman didn’t respond to questions about Trump’s rationale for making the move.

Donors Sheldon Adelson and Miriam Ochsorn

Just as deep-pocketed donors to the Republican party had a huge impact on the hastily-written tax reform bill that’s now being reconciled in Congress, they have put direct pressure on the US president to change US policy in Israel.

Most prominent are casino magnate Sheldon Adelson and his wife Miriam Ochsorn, the largest individual Republican donors in 2016, who coughed up $83 million. Adelson failed to back Trump initially in the Republican race, but made an abrupt about-face during the primary, earning the couple a seat at Trump’s inauguration.

Moving the US embassy to Jerusalem has long been one of the couple’s goals—one that is particularly important for Ochsorn, some say, who was born in British-ruled Palestine. “There’s a theory that Miriam is the real driver on a lot of these issues,” said Michael Green, a history professor at the University of Nevada. She may be the one that “really has a greater ideological commitment” than her husband. Thanks to their donations, both Adelson and Ochsorn can “pick up the phone and call the White House,” Green said. . . .

The couple had a private dinner at the White House on October 2, where they discussed the Las Vegas shooting the day before, but also pushed Trump on relocating the embassy, the New York Times reported (paywall). Adelson’s spokesman didn’t return requests for comment.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

I don't even know where this diatribe comes from. Have you always been anti-Semitic or is this a new stripe?

It's anti-Las Vegas rather than anti-Semitic because Sheldon Adelson, Chief Executive Officer of Las Vegas Sands, was able to buy Trump for as little as $83 million.

It's also anti-megachurch rather than anti-Semitic: "I can assure you that 60 million evangelicals are watching this promise closely because if President Trump moves the embassy into Jerusalem, he will historically step into immortality," Pastor John Hagee said. "He will be remembered for thousands of years for his act of courage to treat Israel like we already treat other nations." Hagee is the founder and senior pastor of Cornerstone Church, a megachurch in San Antonio, Texas.
www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/12/06/why-trumps-promise-to-move-us-embassy-to-jerusalem-is-so-controversial.html

I don't even know where this diatribe comes from. Have you always been anti-Semitic or is this a new stripe?

It's anti-Las Vegas rather than anti-Semitic because Sheldon Adelson, Chief Executive Officer of Las Vegas Sands, was able to buy Trump for as little as $83 million.

It's also anti-megachurch rather than anti-Semitic: "I can assure you that 60 million evangelicals are watching this promise closely because if President Trump moves the embassy into Jerusalem, he will historically step into immortality," Pastor John Hagee said. "He will be remembered for thousands of years for his act of courage to treat Israel like we already treat other nations." Hagee is the founder and senior pastor of Cornerstone Church, a megachurch in San Antonio, Texas.
www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/12/06/why-trumps-promise-to-move-us-embassy-to-jerusalem-is-so-controversial.html

So if Trump pursued another good idea, like balancing the budget and decreasing the DEBT, you would also be against that if you could find a Jew who agreed with it?
Who does your thinking for you? Their logic subroutine is malfunctioning.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

So if Trump pursued another good idea, like balancing the budget and decreasing the DEBT, you would also be against that if you could find a Jew who agreed with it?
Who does your thinking for you? Their logic subroutine is malfunctioning.

That is an excellent argument you are making, except you did not define the term "good idea". Is it really a "good idea" for America if the idea came from a billionaire's young-enough-to-be-his-daughter second wife who admires Benjamin Netanyahu's plans?

I am really curious to know why JewelStaiteFan thinks it is a "good idea" for Benjamin Netanyahu to be setting US policy, especially when you consider that Netanyahu had meetings with the billionaire and his wife to suggest bribing Trump with $83 million.

How about if the "good idea" comes from the Book of Revelations and it is the final step before Armageddon and the prophesied destruction of all nations followed by God's Kingdom of Southern Baptists ruling forever over all mankind?

Has JewelStaiteFan considered that Armageddon Now would be bad for the USA? Yes, I believe moving the embassy won't start Armageddon, but starting Armageddon is the megachurch's reason to support the moving to Jerusalem as a "good idea".

Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor:
Never heard of Abby Martin, but she's really freaking naïve and lacking in a brain.

But, unlike you, she's actually BEEN to Palestinian areas. What she posted in pretty much in line with what other people WHO HAVE BEEN TO THESE AREAS have also said, In addition, the fact that Palestinians are second-class citizens, and that Israel is a Jewish state (just like Saudi Arabia is a Sunni Muslim state) are historical facts.

Another facet of reality for Palestinians in the land of Israel

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

NOV 27: How Qatar Is Being Pushed Into The Arms Of Iran By Saudi Arabia And Its Allies

DEC 6: Syria fully liberated from ISIS terrorists – Russian MoD

DEC 6: Trump's Jerusalem decision promises upheaval

Look at all of the nations/ entities involved: Iran, Syria, Russia, Israel, Saudi Arabia and the other Gulf states, Qatar, United States, Hamas, Hezbollah ... I sense a lot of arm-wrestling going on under the table

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor:
Never heard of Abby Martin, but she's really freaking naïve and lacking in a brain.

But, unlike you, she's actually BEEN to Palestinian areas. What she posted in pretty much in line with what other people WHO HAVE BEEN TO THESE AREAS have also said, In addition, the fact that Palestinians are second-class citizens, and that Israel is a Jewish state (just like Saudi Arabia is a Sunni Muslim state) are historical facts.

Another facet of reality for Palestinians in the land of Israel

One does not need to BE there to understand the situation. She went there w/ a mindset and a lack of understanding which didn't change because she WANTED to see things as she wished them to be. The Jews didn't dig tunnels under the land to try to murder civilians. The Jews didn't fire rockets, indiscriminately, into civilian populations, schools, hospitals,... Everything the Jews did was DEFENSIVE, a REACTION to the offensive assaults by the Pals.

EVERYTHING.

I'm not Jewish. Not one bit , that I'm aware of. I'm not even religious, though I was raised Methodist. But I do understand history, and though neither side is as pure as snow on this matter, by far and away the Jews are on the right side of history.

It really is just that simple.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

So if Trump pursued another good idea, like balancing the budget and decreasing the DEBT, you would also be against that if you could find a Jew who agreed with it?
Who does your thinking for you? Their logic subroutine is malfunctioning.

That is an excellent argument you are making, except you did not define the term "good idea". Is it really a "good idea" for America if the idea came from a billionaire's young-enough-to-be-his-daughter second wife who admires Benjamin Netanyahu's plans?

Bill Clinton is somebody's second wife? I would agree he is immature.
Obama is somebody's second wife?

The line of argument defines good idea as what you think is a good idea. And then do you reverse your opinion if you search for and find a Jew who endorses the same idea?

NOV 27: How Qatar Is Being Pushed Into The Arms Of Iran By Saudi Arabia And Its Allies

DEC 6: Syria fully liberated from ISIS terrorists – Russian MoD

DEC 6: Trump's Jerusalem decision promises upheaval

Look at all of the nations/ entities involved: Iran, Syria, Russia, Israel, Saudi Arabia and the other Gulf states, Qatar, United States, Hamas, Hezbollah ... I sense a lot of arm-wrestling going on under the table

Syria fully liberated? Obamination will be despondent about that, all his carefully laid plans falling apart.

AURAPTOR, the original problem came about when Britain "gave" Palestine to the Jews. But in order to do that, they had to take land away from the people who lived there already: the Palestinians.

From that original injustice, how do you make things right?

******

In any case, this whole dominoes-falling sequence was triggered, I believe, by the recognition that the western alliance's plans to depose Assad and set up a different government, or break up Syria, failed.

There are all kinds of reasons for the attempt.

For the west, it was cutting off an Iranian gas pipeline thru Syria to the Mediterranean ... the area could be called "pipeline-istan". The west was trying to block Russia and its partner, Iran, from bringing natural gas to southern Europe, hoping to deprive Russia and Iran from a source of revenue and geopolitical power.

Qatar saw this early, and after actively supplying and funding al Qaeda and ISIS in Syria, started making deals with Iran over their common gas field. That's why KSA and the other Gulf states are in a snit with Qatar.

For KSA and the Sunni Gulf states, it was an attempt to block the formation of the Shia Crescent, and to blunt the rise of Iran as a regional power. I have heard several times that the Saudi oil fields are maxed out, which is why they're trying to acquire Yemen, but that in comparison the Iranian fields (which have been sanctioned) have a great future.

For Israel, it speaks to their geopolitical fear of Iran. Now, I don;t know why Israel is so afraid of Iran ... they don't share a common border, so what the hell? But for some reason, Iran figures greatly in Israel's security concerns.

ALL of those plans have failed! What a catastrophe! Saudi Arabia tried to make trouble with Qatar, which failed. Saudi Arabia and Israel together tried to make trouble in Lebanon, which also failed so far. But maybe this announcement by Trump is an attempt to placate Israel into not making further trouble in the ME.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Quote:Originally posted by second:
That is an excellent argument you are making, except you did not define the term "good idea". Is it really a "good idea" for America if the idea came from a billionaire's young-enough-to-be-his-daughter second wife who admires Benjamin Netanyahu's plans?

I am really curious to know why JewelStaiteFan thinks it is a "good idea" for Benjamin Netanyahu to be setting US policy, especially when you consider that Netanyahu had meetings with the billionaire and his wife to suggest bribing Trump with $83 million.

How about if the "good idea" comes from the Book of Revelations and it is the final step before Armageddon and the prophesied destruction of all nations followed by God's Kingdom of Southern Baptists ruling forever over all mankind?

Has JewelStaiteFan considered that Armageddon Now would be bad for the USA? Yes, I believe moving the embassy won't start Armageddon, but starting Armageddon is the megachurch's reason to support the moving to Jerusalem as a "good idea".

Others have considered it.
My pal T who loves politics, who told me I'm a democrat ... & we were
real clear that Trump is a loose cannon who could make things really bad.

I asked him, "How can the Republicans run a guy like Trump for President?"

T: Most Republicans, those long established in Congress, are born-again Christians.
They would love to see Armageddon.

I did not believe him then ... but Now I Do. :(

Chinese curse:
May you live in interesting times.
... oooOO}{OOooo ...
Eff Mee!

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