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Yes and no. If you can handle all of Chopin's etudes, you can probably handle just about any one phrase of any piece (with a few odd exceptions - things like Xenakis, Boulez, Alkan, Godowsky, Ligeti, but nothing really in the "standard" repertory.)

The problem, however, is one of stamina. Just because you can play the hell out of the octave etude doesn't mean you'll have the endurance/stamina to do it at the end of the Liszt Rigoletto paraphrase.

Put another way, just because you can run a 6 minute mile doesn't mean you can finish a marathon.

And another example: I know plenty of pianists who can force/muscle their way through Chopin's Op. 10#1, yet they lack any sense of cohesion/phrasing/structure in something like the Tempest sonata (which, in terms of difficulty, isn't really at the level of that etude.)

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"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

I am sure that if one could learn to play well, the Chopin Etudes they would be well on the way to being able to play just about anything. Add to that the fact that my wonderful piano teacher says that If you learn to play all the Preludes and Fugues In the WTC, you should be able to play anything.

So, between Chopin and Bach, one should be on the way to becoming a really fine pianist---provided they understand the soul of the music they are playing. Gaby tu

False. I have run across many pieces that have technical difficulties not encountered in the Chopin Études (not to mention other interpretative difficulties). That being said, once you are able to play all of them WELL you are a VERY competent pianist.

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Technical skills should never come before artistry. I think of technical ability as a necessary tool for extracting a truly moving performance from a sensitive interpretation. -Aviator1010110

gabytu:If you learn to play all the Preludes and Fugues In the WTC, you should be able to play anything.

I used WTC as the basis of my getting back into 'serious' piano-playing again a couple of years ago, and I still probably spend at least 7hrs/week playing it, each and every one. Over that time I have played through all 48 countless times, and though there are obviously some I play better than others, I would say that I am very familiar with all of them, and would need only a short time to get any of them to an acceptable 'performance standard' as it were. So I would not really agree with your teacher's statement as such, as it has not enabled me to 'play anything' but I have found it a great help in many ways, not least vastly improving one's sight-reading .

I think Kreisler's comments on the Chopin Etudes is spot on. I regularly play through most of them and have worked on most of them more closely with my teacher; currently 10/8 and 25/9 are back 'on the workbench' so to speak...

-Michael B.

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If we imagine a person who has studied the etudes and nothing else, this person would have severe problems with large scale forms, 4-voice counterpoint, advanced polyrhythms, 20th century chromatic textures and interpretation of anything that isn't in the romantic style. But with the technique acquired to master the etudes, the person has a good start towards the stage when he can handle any piece. Add to the etudes the WTC, all etudes by Debussy and Scriabin and all sonatas by Mozart, Beethoven, Szymanowski and Boulez, then the person would probably be able to handle most classical solo piano litterature.

Originally posted by Witold: If we imagine a person who has studied the etudes and nothing else, this person would have severe problems with large scale forms, 4-voice counterpoint, advanced polyrhythms, 20th century chromatic textures and interpretation of anything that isn't in the romantic style. But with the technique acquired to master the etudes, the person has a good start towards the stage when he can handle any piece. Add to the etudes the WTC, all etudes by Debussy and Scriabin and all sonatas by Mozart, Beethoven, Szymanowski and Boulez, then the person would probably be able to handle most classical solo piano litterature. [/b]

Well put.Chopin's Etudes, while hard, are not near the difficulty level of certain music such as Alkan's, or 21st century(although one might question if that's really music )

I think it's debatable that working on so much material from one composer is good for the student. Nevertheless, if one learned all of them efficiently and could play them at concert standard they probably wouldn't have very much trouble with most other things in the repertoire, and it would give a solid base for work on the excruciatingly difficult and abstract world of 20th century music.

But could it be that Muzzzz (sounds like a chappie dozing off) ... is right on the dearth of Etude trills ... but further, does not see the so-called "scamperings" (single-note outlines) as examples of valid counter-melody.

#559284 - 10/30/0711:31 PMRe: If you can play all chopin etudes you can play anything...

Anonymous
Unregistered

If you tried to play Balakirev pieces the same way as Chopin, it would sound terrible, and it certainly wouldn't be anything close to what Balakirev intended, as he did not use the pedal very often. Many of Balakirev's odd and often tricky octave techniques and left hand usage is completely different than anything you would find in Chopin.

Mainly, even if you learn the technique required to play those etudes, you will be prepared for neither interpreting nor handling the endurance required for Balakirev's pieces.

#559286 - 10/31/0711:05 AMRe: If you can play all chopin etudes you can play anything...

Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

You seem to be making a claim that the musicianship and facility required for the Chopin Etudes are somehow insufficient for Balakirev.

Yes, that is my claim. You certainly don't have to agree with it, but to me it seems that clearly Russian music, especially Balakirev's, requires a different form of musicianship. If you have looked at some Balakirev pieces, you surely have noticed the different, though not necessarily more difficult, ways Balakirev displays his melodies, and the different pedal and left hand usage required.

It would be the same problem if someone first built up the endurance to play Islamey, Reminiscences on Glinka's Life for the Tsar, and maybe Balakirev's final sonata, and then believed that they could play Chopin. The problem would be the difference in musicality.

Originally posted by Balakirev:to me it seems that clearly Russian music, especially Balakirev's, requires a different form of musicianship.

I understand and agree with your point. Certainly within Russian music, i.e. Prokofiev, Rachmaninov and Medtner, there are different requirements.

But any pianist with the maturity to make music out of the Chopin Etudes is going to instinctively recognise Balakirev's different sound world and act accordingly. Success will depend on the individual pianist.

Pianists I've heard play Islamey and the Reminiscences, have all given us beautiful Chopin. Conversely, pianists who have recorded the Etudes -Pollini, Browning, Ashkenazy for example- would most certainly give us masterful Balakirev.

Certainly it's fantastic if you master all Chopin etudes, but people who have gone through this also have mastered a lot of other repertoire along the way. I think it's impossible to separate the benefit gained from working on the Chopin etudes from the benefit gained from the other repertoire.I think it would not be good only to focus on the etudes without other pieces along. My teacher once said to me, 'Playing only Chopin etudes is like eating the same stuff every day: it's not healthy and you miss all the other good food that exists.' I think the (musical) difficulties posed by many other composer's pieces are very different: you cannot voice Schubert like Chopin, how does your polyphonic playing develop from at best op.10/6 only, etc.?Finally, regarding the frequent mentionings of Alkan in this thread: I would say that the technical difficulties posed by Alkan's etudes are actually very, very similar to those given by Chopin (of course there's still the sheer length of op. 39...). So as a master of Chopin's etudes you are more likely to become a master of Alkan than to become a master of Schubert or Bach. Since I feel I will never really master anything, I should add, 'I guess'

Originally posted by pianovirus: Certainly it's fantastic if you master all Chopin etudes, but people who have gone through this also have mastered a lot of other repertoire along the way. I think it's impossible to separate the benefit gained from working on the Chopin etudes from the benefit gained from the other repertoire. [/b]

true! my teacher plays them all, but he also said that he played a lot of Bach pieces to begin with, and didn't touch Chopin seriously after 9 or 10 year study.