You hate filled pussbags say everything Joe Sobran says each and every day. Don't think so? Read the excerpt I posted to that halfwit, Wingnut. Each and every sentence could have been written by him, or you, or a half dozen other imbeciles.

The difference being, of course, that Sobran postulates that some Jews have the imbecile crowd (that would include you, in case you were wondering) so pussy-whipped by the Holocaust that to even mention this actually occurs invokes, screams, squeals, and shrieks of "anti-semitism". Dispite the fact that what Sobran wrote is no different than what you retards whine about daily. The only difference being that Sobran linked to sites that dissent from Holocaust History, so of course he can't be like you, can he?

posted 08 April 2004 12:11 AM
Oddly enough, as the token right winger, I should be expected to enjoy comments like those but that's pretty much crossing every line I know.
From: Edmonton: This place sucks | Registered: Jun 2003
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WingNut
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1292

posted 08 April 2004 12:11 AM
Look at that, will ya. I'm both a an antisemite for opposing Israeli policy in the West Bank and Gaza and "pussy-whipped by the Holocaust" for opposing racist scumbags like the uneducated, brainwashed moron who initiated this thread.

>>> We are told incessantly that Israel is a “democracy,” and therefore the natural ally of the United States, whose “democratic values” it shares. This is a very dubious claim. To Americans, democracy means majority rule, but with equal rights for minorities. In Israel and the occupied territories, equal rights for the minority are simply out of the question.

Majority rule itself has taken a peculiar form in Israel. The original Arab majority was driven out of their homes and their native land, and kept out. Meanwhile, a Jewish “majority” was artificially imported. Not only the first immigrants from Eastern Europe, but every Jew on earth was granted a “right of return” — that is, “return” to a “homeland” most have never lived in, and in which none of their ancestors has ever lived. A Jew from Brooklyn (whose grandfather came from Poland) can fly to Israel and immediately claim rights denied to an Arab whose people have always lived in Palestine. In recent years Israel has been augmenting its Jewish majority by vigorously encouraging Jewish immigration, especially from Russia. Ariel Sharon has told a group of American senators that Israel needs a million more Jewish immigrants.

In recent negotiations, Israel has flatly rejected demands for a “right of return” for Palestinians exiled since 1948. It frankly gave as its reason that this would mean “the end of the Jewish state,” since an Arab majority would surely vote down Jewish ethnic privileges. If Israel remained democratic, it wouldn’t long remain Jewish.

This confirms the contention of hard-line Revisionist Zionists from Vladimir Jabotinsky to Meir Kahane that in the long run, Israel must be either Jewish or democratic; it can’t be both. And in order to remain Jewish, it must reject the equal rights for its minorities that Jews everywhere demand where they are a minority. Israel must be the only “democracy” whose existence depends on inequality.

Put otherwise, Zionism is a denial of the “self-evident truths” of the Declaration of Independence. To acknowledge those truths, and to put them into practice, would mean the end of Israel as a Jewish state. Again, honest and rigorous Zionists have always seen and said this.

American gentiles, bemused by the propaganda claim that a beleaguered little democracy is fighting for its very right to exist, are vaguely baffled, unable to comprehend what is before their eyes. They still haven’t figured out that Israeli “democracy” is essentially and radically different from — even repugnant to — what they understand as democracy <<

Wingnut, Michelle, or Joe Sobran?

It's not the words that are said, it's the links to "Holocaust Deniers" that send them into a frenzy. Thus putting the truth to Sobran's writings.

posted 08 April 2004 12:15 AM
In the last thread i was in the proces sof responding to your diatribe when the thread was closed. What I said then, I will try to get out a little more quickly. The Gospels tell us that Satan will mix a little truth in with every lie to make it more believable. It is true I do not believe Israel as it stands is a true democracy (that doesn't mean it can't be) but that would be the little truth in your lie, Satan.
From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001
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Twana Brawley
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5429

posted 08 April 2004 12:19 AM
Right. As I said. You and Joe Sobran write exactly the same things. the only difference is, (well, there's 2 differences) Sobran is intelligent, and you are not, and Sobran is unafraid to link the issue of israel to the Holocaust. Or to dispassionately look at people like david irving.

You imbeciles are so PC pussy whipped you can express your hatred about all things israeli, in solidarity with the poor brown Palestinians, and yet squeal with outrage as soon as the name Irving pops up.

posted 08 April 2004 12:20 AM
I heard that there was someone posing as me on this thread. Any allusions that Satan is anyone other than your truly, will be severly punished.... for ever and ever and ever....

MUHAHHA HAHHAHHA

From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted 08 April 2004 12:21 AM
I might point out that Sobran's words are crucially different from mine. He claims that Jews in general use the Holocaust as a bludgeon to beat down legitimate criticism, and has made comments elsewhere clearly indicating that he subscribes to the biological notions, now discredited, of treating minorities and subgroups as foreign irritants and cancers on the majority body politic.

In short, he is a rather thinly-disguised extreme-right-wing crypto-white supremacist, although whether to pick "Nazi" or "fascist" would be debatable here.

By contrast, you will not catch myself or most anyone here slipping and failing to make the distinction between the illegitimate utilization of the Holocaust by certain persons, and the bulk of Jewish people who probably do not do so, and indeed have their own ideas and opinions, and do not act monolithically.

Monolithic behavior, ironically, is characteristic of Communist states, which happen to have a strong antipathy to religion.

But I digress. This conversation is now over.

[ 08 April 2004: Message edited by: DrConway ]

From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001
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Twana Brawley
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5429

posted 08 April 2004 12:24 AM

quote: and has made comments elsewhere clearly indicating that he subscribes to the biological notions, now discredited, of treating minorities and subgroups as foreign irritants and cancers on the majority body politic.

BS. You're talking out your ass.

Certian persons misue the Holocaust? Will Michelle boot you? Or do you have to link Irving's site, then it's official?

posted 08 April 2004 12:29 AM
Well, I'm sure there's idiots who say the Earth is flat. Just as there are those idiots, there are certainly going to be some idiots who misuse the Holocaust.

I concern myself with neither set of people, and they are such a vanishingly small minority as to be unimportant in any further consideration of the Earth's roundness, or the careful, considered examination of the Holocaust's effects on the Western world.

From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001
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Twana Brawley
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5429

posted 08 April 2004 12:38 AM

quote: I concern myself with neither set of people, and they are such a vanishingly small minority as to be unimportant in any further consideration of the Earth's roundness, or the careful, considered examination of the Holocaust's effects on the Western world.

Oh, but you very much do concern yourself with those people. You say exactly the same things, but as sooon as it comes to examining anything about the Holocaust, no matter how innocuous, you cover your eyes, scream, point fingers, and wail "Racist!!!"

Sobran writes exactly the same thing seen on these boards every day. The only difference is that he at least considers arguments from dissenters like Irving and Feinstein. You have been so programmed that you can't,.

posted 08 April 2004 12:55 AM
Twana, I was making a point. Your blathering is quite irrelevant to me (just as the moment of inertia tensor is irrelevant to you), since you've apparently already got all the answers and don't need any help from me.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001
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Twana Brawley
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5429

posted 08 April 2004 01:00 AM
I don't have all the answers. I do, however, recognize a pussy whipped hypocrite when I see one. Too afraid to defend your own words?

posted 08 April 2004 01:01 AM
Blathering would be an improvement over the racist idiot's mindless mouthings of what others have planted in her empty head.
From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001
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clersal
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 370

posted 08 April 2004 01:01 AM
You get an F Twana. There is a point you don't get it. We all have our cross to bear.
From: Canton Marchand, Québec | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08 April 2004 01:04 AM
I am, in point of fact, a homosexual. That makes me very unlikely to be "pussy whipped", in any case, although the phrase itself is rather stupid.

However, as I was about to say, the moment of inertia tensor describes the behavior of rotational motion of an object that does not possess a high degree of symmetry.

In this situation, the tensor matrix is not diagonal, but contains off-diagonal elements.

In such cases it becomes useful to ask how the principal rotational axes would appear in such an object.

To this end, the eigenvalues of that matrix give the coefficients of the moment of inertia, and the eigenvectors, mutually orthogonal, point in the directions for which the rotational motion becomes simple to express in terms of the eigenvalues.

And this ends my physics lesson for today.

From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001
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Twana Brawley
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5429

posted 08 April 2004 01:04 AM
There is a point, clersal? I thought I responded appropriately.

Properly browbeaten, I recognized that the term 'retarded' is no longer in vogue. Instead, the properly sanatized term 'savant' is the preferred term. Devoid of its original meaning, of course.

quote: Because the Israelis are jews has absolutely nothing to do with anti-semitism

Really? Well, let's examine that in more detail then, shall we?

Because WWII history is not about "The Jews" any more than it is about the Germans, the Japanese, the latvians, the Americans, the Canadians, the Italians, or any of the other groups involved in WWII, why the screams and squeals when Sobran points out that Israeli's (which may possibly include some Jews) have misused the Holocaust as an excuse for their nationalist leanings?

Don't misunderstand, Israel is a State. It won't go away, and Israeli's have a right to self defense.

I just find it comical that you lot get so freaked out about 'anti-semites' that you claim you are outraged when Sobran writes an article, not because of the words he writes, which could have been written by Michelle, but because Sobran has links to Pat Buchanan's web site.

quote: War is power and money. Religious affiliations are bullshit reasons.

Hey, we might just agree on this.

Then again, I'm certain Hitler agreed with such sentiments, too. After all, he blamed the war on "Jewish capitalists".

Although you might want to let the Iranians Muslims, and Syrian Muslims, and Saudi Muslims, and Albanian Muslims, and all the other muslims in Iraq know this. They seem to believe this has something to do with religion.

In anycase, I wanted to confront Joe directly on his ideas, as the subtle form of racism, carefully cloaked in some truth and gentle language posing as an intellectual critique, is sometimes the most dangerous. I made the following statement directly toward Joe and his "work." I will repeat it here in hopes that you, since you seem familiar with Joe's ideas, might be able to calrify some of Joe's ideas.

quote: In short, the Holocaust has become a device for exempting Jews from normal human obligations. It has authorized them to bully and blackmail, to extort and oppress. This is all quite irrational, because even if six million Jews were murdered during World War II, it doesn’t follow that the survivors are entitled to commit the slightest injustice. If your father was stabbed in the street, that’s a pity, but it’s not an excuse for picking someone else’s pocket. In a peculiar way, the Holocaust story has promoted not only pity, but actual fear of the Jews. It has removed them from the universe of normal moral discourse. It has made them victims with nukes. It has made them even more dangerous than their enemies have always charged. It has given the world an Israel ruled by Ariel Sharon.

There are huge problems with all of this Joe. In particullar you are not even specific about how the "Holocaust has become a device for exempting Jews from normal human obligations." As an example many Holocaust survivors have negatively critqued some Israeli action in the light of there own experieince. While I agree that the Holocaust does not justify injustice to others, I doubt that you will find many Jews who will say it does.

Some do, but to extend that to the point where it becomes a national/cultural/ethnic attribute is far fetched and bigoted.

As for the normal moral discourse many Zionists like Sharon have taken what is a very normal moral discourse based on national security, and fear of the other as a means of projecting imperial power, this is reprhensible, but in no way abnormal. It is in fact very normal. It is very much the discourse that the United States is engaged in today, the same moral discourse that drives the Russian occupation of Chechnya etc. To focus on it in such a way that it is exceptional is essentially racist.

All nationalism have there justifications. Zionism is simply one of many. Even in a distorted form Israel has in many ways tried taken to heart the lessons of the holocaust and apply them, although this has nothing to do with Likud or Sharon, but its past 'left-wing' rulers. The explicit enfranchisement of Arab-Israelis is an example of this, even though they are second class citizens in some ways, they endure no where near the opressioin experienced by black people under Apartheid. That said, this in no way excuses the Apartheid-like disenfranchisement of Palestinians on the WB and in Gaza city.

So you are right, Israel is a country of contradictions, but to somehow establish that, as a Jewish state it worse than any other nationalist-imperialist project and that that derives from its Jewishness is racist.

To suggest that the Holocaust is used as an excuse by all Jews to justify human rights abuse is deeply offensive.

[ 08 April 2004: Message edited by: Cueball ]

From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003
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DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 08 April 2004 01:52 AM

quote:Originally posted by Kevin Harding:I did take Physics 11

But did they inflict eigenvalues and eigenvectors on you?

From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001
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posted 08 April 2004 08:28 AM
Pussy-smothered?
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001
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Macabee
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5227

posted 08 April 2004 09:35 AM
This has to be the most bizarre thread I have seen here!!! never mind the inappropriate use of a word in the thread title ( I wonder if the "N" word or any other derogatory word were used in a thread title if the mods would keep it there? I hope not and I hope they get rid of the "R" word as well. To at least one friend of mine who has a mental disability the "R" word is without doubt as bad as the "N" word.) but the sops to Holocaust denial and much else is frankly very ugly, very ugly indeed!!
From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004
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Briguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1885

posted 08 April 2004 09:44 AM
At least you've finally found an honest-to-goodness antisemite polluting these boards, Macabee. The wait was long. Was it worth it?

Of course, it's not really a babbler, but I'd take what you can get if I were you.

[ 08 April 2004: Message edited by: Sarcasmobri ]

From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 08 April 2004 10:37 AM
I agree with our new Scottish friend, Macabee. Except the whole thread is such a disaster the offense of the word "retarded" is almost lost.
From: The 10th circle | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 08 April 2004 11:01 AM
Sorry. I didn't really think about "retarded" in the thread title since it was aimed at me - I tend not to "moderate" insults against me the way I would insults against other babblers.

I will not edit the post or the thread title, but I will close the thread since I agree that it's offensive.

From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001
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