335/N54 fanboys get panties in a twist over a bolt on DCT E92 M3 pulling a JB4 tuned bolt on 335i

335/N54 fanboys get panties in a twist over a bolt on DCT E92 M3 pulling a JB4 tuned bolt on 335i

If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

335/N54 fanboys get panties in a twist over a bolt on DCT E92 M3 pulling a JB4 tuned bolt on 335i

Oh yes, here we go the millionth time, the ever popular 335 versus M3 discussion. A user posted the video below of a bolt on DCT E92 M3 pulling a JB4 tuned 335i in the forums and the N54 fanboys went for the pitchforks and torches. For whatever reason 335 owners in particular seem to really want to attack the E92 M3 perhaps in justification of their own purchase. There is the typical "oh I didn't get an M3 because a tuned 335 is faster" nonsense that N54 fanboys tend to comfort themselves with in the never ending M3 versus 335 debate.

Even though the 335 in this video may have more power and torque in tuned form which the fanboys love to point out the other side of the coin is that the M3's redline and transmission are a huge advantage. Gearing is an area the M3 simply has an advantage over the 335 in and the transmission makes a big difference as one can see the shift speed in lower gears is really what gives the M3 the gains it sees in the race early on.

Up top, the tuned 335's horsepower advantage comes into play as the cars spend more time in gear negating the gear change advantage provided by the DCT allowing the 335 to inch up and close the gap.

This video is a good real world example as without race gas or meth a 335 will struggle against a tuned M3 especially one with DCT. Of course 335 owners will point out they can upgrade their turbos. Then M3 owners will say they can supercharge. Then the debate escalates and escalate and there are dozens of pages to read of M3 and 335 owners essentially throwing feces at each other. BMW fans, just enjoy 335 versus M3 round 400,000 in the video below.

Um no because I can differentiate between a block, and pistons, and rods, and crank, and heads, and bearings, etc. That's also why they have shortblocks, longblocks, etc.

.... yes

when talking about 'do you have stock head and stock block'

that IS what people mean

if someone wants to JUST know about pistons/crank whatever.. then THAT is specifically asked about

it would be very rare for someone to ask 'stock block?' and actually mean if the block was custom made or from the factory... more often even if not internals, it'll be asking if it's AT LEAST sleeved/bored... in which case your answer is still yes? so your block isn't completely stock no matter if you're talking about actual internals, or the structure of the block itself

same for your head, i'm assuming it's had a port/valve job at least? in which case it's not exactly OEM, since it has less material.

if someone wants to JUST know about pistons/crank whatever.. then THAT is specifically asked about

it would be very rare for someone to ask 'stock block?' and actually mean if the block was custom made or from the factory... more often even if not internals, it'll be asking if it's AT LEAST sleeved/bored... in which case your answer is still yes? so your block isn't completely stock no matter if you're talking about actual internals, or the structure of the block itself

same for your head, i'm assuming it's had a port/valve job at least? in which case it's not exactly OEM, since it has less material.

I don't see how it would be rare to ask stock block and mean something entirely different than the question. It's not an aftermarket block, it's the block that came with the car. If someone wants details on if the INTERNALS are built then ask that question. I usually ask built motor or not, simple.

You ask if it's sleeved or bored? Good, then you'll get an answer to that question. As the answer to the question is it an OEM block is that yep, it's an OEM block manufactured by BMW last time I checked.

No porting and think I'm still on the stock valves too. Blessing of having an awesome NA motor as the basis.

Until your car is up, running & actually beating other notable cars, you're just bench racing. And to date Terry has the fastest, most consistent N54 & Drew's VT3 is the fastest E9x M3.

You can keep bragging about setting the E9x power record & what the numbers on your dyno sheet, but until you put it on the tarmac it's not worth $#@!.

Bench racing is racing with text with little to no basis with real results achieved. My car has the numbers. Drews isn't the fastest he avoids the strip like the baby he is. Because nobody else is going to pay for his transmission, not even ESS no matter how hard he bends over for them.

I will keep bragging about having the most powerful E9X because I do and until someone else proves otherwise. It's a step forward pure and simple and the reality is I have the record. If that isn't worth $#@! to you I don't care but I'm not playing around with 4XX wheel hp here.

Bench racing is racing with text with little to no basis with real results achieved. My car has the numbers. Drews isn't the fastest he avoids the strip like the baby he is. Because nobody else is going to pay for his transmission, not even ESS no matter how hard he bends over for them.

I will keep bragging about having the most powerful E9X because I do and until someone else proves otherwise. It's a step forward pure and simple and the reality is I have the record. If that isn't worth $#@! to you I don't care but I'm not playing around with 4XX wheel hp here.

NOT like the awkward downward section on your dyno graph @ 5k RPMs, which looks more like a tuning or hardware related problem. Using simple logic, here's how I'll support my claim: IF you were having clutch slip at 5,000 RPMs & 440 TQ, how is it possible that it was able "catch" & maintain grip for an additional 100 Ft Lbs (estimating "peak" TQ at just over 550 Ft Lbs from the dyno sheet)? The answer is it can't. If you look at the two graphs I posted, once the cars hit the TQ value the slipping starts at, the cars are incapable of successfully maintaing the curve & putting down the power, BUT your car somehow "caught" and successfully maintained the curve another 2.5k+ RPMs

Yes when you do something easy it's easy to make it work. Big fish or little fish? What do you prefer to be? You made your choice.

Originally Posted by benzy89

For the record, this is what clutch slip looks like:

On those particular dynojets with that particular smoothing with that particular clutch setup sure. I guess I'm just building my trans again for fun eh?

Originally Posted by benzy89

NOT like the awkward downward section on your dyno graph @ 5k RPMs, which looks more like a tuning or hardware related problem. Using simple logic, here's how I'll support my claim: IF you were having clutch slip at 5,000 RPMs & 440 TQ, how is it possible that it was able "catch" & maintain grip for an additional 100 Ft Lbs (estimating "peak" TQ at just over 550 Ft Lbs from the dyno sheet)? The answer is it can't. If you look at the two graphs I posted, once the cars hit the TQ value the slipping starts at, the cars are incapable of successfully maintaing the curve & putting down the power, BUT your car somehow "caught" and successfully maintained the curve another 2.5k+ RPMs

Why don't you pick up your phone and ask Gintani rather than engage in rampant negative rumors? If the line pressure was upped at certain rpm what do you think would happen?

Of course it can't be what I said, or Gintani stated, or anything of the sort. It has to be something else from the company that is also tuning turbos on the S65 V8 on the stock DME.

Go ahead and create a thread throwing this out there and we can have Gintani respond. I've got nothing to hide just start writing your apology now.

I don't see how it would be rare to ask stock block and mean something entirely different than the question. It's not an aftermarket block, it's the block that came with the car. If someone wants details on if the INTERNALS are built then ask that question. I usually ask built motor or not, simple.

You ask if it's sleeved or bored? Good, then you'll get an answer to that question. As the answer to the question is it an OEM block is that yep, it's an OEM block manufactured by BMW last time I checked.

No porting and think I'm still on the stock valves too. Blessing of having an awesome NA motor as the basis.

ok, if you want it that plainly... is it sleeved/bored?.. 'built'? (though i've surmised as much from other posts), what other internal modifications on have you done to get to where you are?

and what modifications have been done to said OEM head... completely stock? any reason not to port just to see if there's anything AT ALL to gain? or did you get it looked at and it really was THAT good?

When I hear stock block and head, people are usually referring to the parts inside also. As I was saying earlier about the s2000, the 700whp has been made on stock piston, rods, bearings, etc. If you don't think that is built stronger out the factory than the s65 than you are nuts. Keep in mind its a 2.0L 4cyl. Never seen an s65 do that, but there has been a particular bmw motor that has. Here's a hint. Starts with an N and ends with a 4.