I wasn't evading. I love honest dialog. I thought VikingBoy was making a point about the forum. If his question is "Why can't we just leave y'all alone" there's an obvious problem.

For blacks to live and work in isolation from white America is a pretty tall request given that you make up the majority of the country. There are no doubt places in America where a white person could go for days without seeing a black person. The inverse is not true.

Also, blacks (as taxpayers and voters) are protected by the same rights of the Constitution that you are. By law, we have the right to go anywhere a white person can. If blacks were to self-segregate, those rights would be lost, de-facto, since unexercised rights are hardly rights at all. The right to assemble, for instance, is one of the driving reasons behind regular peaceful protests.

RP

Yeah, but again, what makes you think we want anything to do with you?
What makes your "rights" supercede the rights of others?

As I understand the term, no. I have no particular allegiance to United States of America, for that matter, but a distinct loyalty and devotion to the values the country represents including freedom of speech, rule of law, free elections and separation of church and state.

You seem to be a polite negro, but this post is filled with politically correct lies. I doubt that you are aware that they are lies, so I will educate you. When you speak of the “values the country represents” and then say separation of church and state, I know you have never studied American History. You’ve read the Cliff’s Notes version, edited by the ACLU and the Southern Poverty Law Center. This is not a concept that was part of this country’s foundation. It only meant that there was no state Church, like the Church of England. If you read the writings of the Founding Fathers, you would see that they were Christians, not Deists like your textbooks told you, and they understood that morality was definitely necessary for this country to be successful. And the morality they believed in was codified in the Bible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaisingPaine

Racial preservation will ultimately be a matter of nature and evolution. Culture, is a much bigger part of individual identity, IMO, given that as a species humans are 99.9% genetically identical.

“The 99.9 percent number is pure nonsense,” wrote Michael Wigler, of Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory, New York, in a recent email. “I will not say anything more about it.” However, he added, “it is true that humans are more like each other than many other species.”
“Wigler is a co-author of one of the two studies, which is published in the July 23 advance online edition of the prestigious research journal Science. In it, the researchers wrote that they were surprised to find large-scale differences in human DNA. “There is considerable structural variation in the human genome [genetic code], most of which was not previously apparent,” they wrote. “
“Some researchers don't think the new findings should change the 99.9 percent figure that much. “Taking all types of DNA variation into consideration and looking at the entire 'content' of the genome, I would now say we are 99.7-99.8 percent identical,” said Stephen W. Scherer of the Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto. Scherer co-authored another study, whose conclusions were similar to those published in Science. His was published in the Aug. 1 advance online issue of the research journal Nature Genetics.”

And Chimpanzees are 95 to 98.5% genetically identical. What does that mean? Should we include apes in the family of man? Please do yourself a favor and don’t post clichés. Actually research what you state.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaisingPaine

I don't think that's what the Founding Fathers had in mind. To carve up part of the United States of America is to make it something other than "united".

You would be wrong. The Founding Fathers would have been on the side of the South in the War Between the States. This is from the Declaration of Independence:

“When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.”

I love it when anti’s say things like this. How are you going to explain what is going to happen in Iraq, i.e., 3 different regions/nations based on cultural, religious, and ethnic differences? How do you explain what happened to the different countries that were formed from the Soviet Union? How do you explain the division of Yugoslavia? You don’t want to, do you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaisingPaine

I regard America as a grand social experiment in which a country is built (with the exception of Native Americans) on immigrants who preserve ethnic identity while sharing a national vision.

Do you really? I want you to really think about this, but do you really believe that the White men that created this country viewed it “AS A GRAND SOCIAL EXPERIMENT”? Come on. That’s just stupid. You also said “I have no particular allegiance to United States of America”, but here you are talking about sharing a ‘national vision’”. Do you not see the hypocrisy of your position?

Whatever this country has become has been because of deliberate perversion of the original contract. Introducing your people as citizens, for example, even though you were only 14th Amendment Federal citizens, and not true citizens of the United States. The Federal Reserve Act. The 17th Amendment. Social Security. Brown vs. Board of Education. The Civil Rights Act of 1964. The opening of immigration to the dregs of the world in the 60’s. These have all been imposed against the best interests of the true citizenry of this country. Your race has been inserted, not to benefit your race, but to create conflict and increase centralized control over this nation. And guess what? About 10% of your people are successful. The same percentage that was successful 100 years ago, before all of these changes were implemented. You need to actually study history, beyond what you learned during black history month.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaisingPaine

To me, the flag is a symbolizes our commonolity of our values, best illustrated in the principle of "E Pluribus Unum".

We don’t really have much commonality of values. Look at what your race, as a whole, values. Look at what ours values. Sure, we all want food, shelter, and safety, but your race is incapable of doing that without mine. See Africa.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaisingPaine

IMO, no. The ancestors of black Americans have paid a dear price to allow their story to share equal billing in American history.

I’m sorry, but black Americans have really done nothing to “allow their story to share equal billing in American history”. You have been inserted in, along with lies about black inventors and cultural accomplishments, by jewish interests, with the help of well-meaning, but ignorant White people. Who created the NAACP? Who allowed constant propaganda over the new medium of television to show your “poor oppressed” people? You need to try and understand what really happened, not the version that has been peddled to your people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaisingPaine

I think one's position on that would depend on how deeply they embrace the inscription at the base of the Statue of Liberty.

I guess the Founding Fathers built the Statue of Liberty, huh? Do you know who gave us the Statue of Liberty? Do you have any idea why this is promoted as some sort of symbol for our nation? Do you see how it has been used as an excuse to allow unfettered immigration into this country? Do you think it is just a coincidence?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaisingPaine

No. In fact, as standards of living improve in poorer countries as a result of globalization, I believe we are likely to see greater freedom, not less.

And as these poorer countries reproduce exponentially and the conflict for resources becomes greater, how is that going to lead to greater freedom? You have obviously not thought about it much. Or, is “science” going to magically remove those obstacles?

The black population, as well as the white population to some extent, has a problem with a thing called drugs. If you want to clean up the black neighborhoods then the borders must be secured. Someone is flying drugs thousands of miles that end up in black neighborhoods, but if the drugs never made it into their neighborhoods then they would be forced to actually work instead of relying on drug dealing. And I guarantee that if you get to the top of the drug smuggling ring you’re not going to find blacks. This must be stopped!

The fact of the matter is that your civil rights, in my opinion, should not be valued as high as mine. This country was never intended to be a melting pot of all the peoples of the world. If you doubt that, then look at the Naturalization act of 1790. The founding fathers clearly never intended this nation to be multiethnic.

Whites are told that the civil rights movement was a just and noble cause. Blacks shouldn't be treated any different. That sounds good at first glance, but a simple look at crime statistics reveals that "equality" for blacks has been catastrophic for the white community.

I believe the statistics are that about 1/3 of all black males are currently enmeshed in the criminal justice system. While they are in prison, the taxpayers pay for everything. As there are many poor blacks who live off of social services(more so per-capita than whites), and many who have EITC (earned income tax credit), it is whites who, for the most part, must financially support these peoples.

This economic burden has caused the need of increased taxation of whites (and some blacks, but mostly whites). This has caused the white middle-class housewife to be forced into the workforce to help support the family. Whites now not only pay with our hard-earned money, but we pay in the highest divorce rate in history and the dissolution of many of our families. Obviously, blacks aren't the only reason for this, but the negative impact that your race has on our country has contributed to this.

Whites now choose to have fewer children due to economic strain. You have already heard about our dwindling numbers. The problems in your community have a domino effect on the rest of society.

Your crime rates rates not only effect us financially but, in many cases, we are the direct victims. 90% of interracial crime is black-on-white. The most tragic episode in all this is the rate of black-on-white rape. The American Enterprise INstitute analyzed the FBI rape records from 1991 and found that there were 100 cases of white-on-black rape that year in America, but there were 20,204 cases of black-on-white rape that year in America.(American Enterprise. (1995). Crime And Race May/June Issue) That is a black-on-white rape to white-on-black rape ratio of 200:1.

It must be hard for any moral and decent black person to hear that, but it is the plain truth. So, yes, white nationalists do want to be racially segregated. Many of us have sisters, wives, daughters, and girlfriends to worry about. Given the black-on-white rape rates, is it unreasonable that we wish to have our sisters and daughters attending white schools and living in white neighborhoods?

The rise of black "civil rights" has caused many whites to lose their civil right not to be robbed, murdered, or raped.

I will give you credit for speaking out against the entitlement mentality amongst blacks. We are both in agreeance that this hurts the black community, and society, for that matter. However, the black community overwhelmingly votes for politicians that support this.

Liberal Politicians want more handouts for blacks at the expense of whites. They want more affirmative action.

Since our immigration is supporting an increase in the non-white population of our country, as well as adding onto the voting blocs of liberal politicians, handouts are going to increase, along with diversity quotas and crime.

Once the non-white population holds complete power in the voting booth, the burden on white taxpayers will become much greater than what it is today.

I don't think we demand to "live with you". What we demand is the right, as federal and local taxpayers, not to be told where we CAN'T live.

It's amazing to me (if you look back over a couple of my posts) that I've had to address criticism over blacks not valuing education...but when we demonstrate we value it by wanting to send their kids to the best schools possible, we're criiticized for moving into the neighborhoods those schools serve.

Since you are "so amazed" for the criticism I'll explain it to you. After reading your posts I believe you are aware that most blacks do not share the train of thought that you do such as sending their kids to a better school. Therefore the problem with blacks who claim to want a better education for their children who move into our better neighborhoods is that once you have "settled in" (and I use these as mere examples) you start inviting friends or your children invite friends over who do not share the same interests as you do and they sit out in your driveway with their booming rap music all night, your son invites his friends over (who again, do not share the same interests as you) and before long their smoking crack out in the front yard and making sexual gestures to the neighbors white daughter. The neighbor gets tired of this and puts his house up for sale. You tell your black friend (you guessed it, not the same educational interest as you) at work about the house. He buys it, throws wild crack party's evry weekend and sells a few bags to help pay the mortgage. The neighbor across the street sells because of the drug activity and more blacks buy the house and this "dominoe effect" continues for several years until this nice little neighborhood is cluttered with gangster sigs and has decreased in value to the point that most anyone can afford to buy there.
Thus the saying "There goes the neighborhood".

Ugh, I had a huge response all typed out, where I tore apart the cliche-riddled posts of Raging_Pain_In_The_Ass, and I hit the wrong stupid button, and it got deleted. Argh!

Long story short: Paine, you're an idiot, and your posts are full of cliches and red herrings. You think you're smart, but you do nothing but regugitate hackneyed excuses. Shove off.

I'd be glad to exchange on any of my expressed views. I'm open to learn and having my mind changed. Race differences are one of those areas where we rarely have open and honest dialogue; IMO, the more enlightened each side is about the other's viewpoint, the better off we all are because of it.

And whose fault is it that black children are having children? Maybe their black parents should be responsible.

Assuming that we're not dealing with issues of rape, those black children having children are ultimately responsible -- just as white kids that have children out of wedlock are. Their parents (and the values they instill their kids with) are obviously an influence in whether their daughter or son or daughter lays with another and engages in unsafe sex. But they're not the only influences -- society, media, and the messages we are bombarded with from them daily undoubtedly take their measure. As do messages from their peer group.

Quote:

Originally Posted by southern shadow

Who produces those black videos? Oh I forgot, it is the fault of white people, or the government. Black people shouldn't be forced to bear the burden of their own mistakes.

Black artists produce most of the videos that reinforce messages of materialism, fast money and loose morals. These messages, which resound as reality to those living in poverty, create a self-perpetuating cycle of consumer and product.

Nowhere in my discussion thread here will you find me attributing the problems to white people or the government. And black society bears the burden of those mistakes everyday, so I have no idea what you're alluding to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southern Shadow

That's not true. Blacks are overexposed in the media as sucessful doctors, lawyers and business men.

ROFL, really? Where? Typically white media productions include a token minority, but certainly haven't seen anything that remotely amounts to overexposure. One of the reasons "The Cosby Show" was so successful was because it broke that paradigm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southern Shadow

The problem for you is that the average person is aware that the portrayal of sucessful blacks is a sham, they see evidence to the contrary in every day life.

Just because you (presumably) choose not to patronize black doctors, lawyers and businessmen doesn't mean there aren't plenty out there. I assure you, there are. And there are plenty of unsuccessful blacks, too...just as there are plenty of unsuccessful whites. I believe that all in these groups have an opportunity to turn themselves around, but largely its a problem of rising above the standards of their peer groups. That takes courage -- and not everyone has that.

I got to your site through a series of links on a racial issue and had a chance to look around. Lest anyone think I was a spy, I wanted to get race identity out of the way up front.

I'm posting in this forum not because I'm here to "argue" against WN (everyone is entitled to their opinion), but because I wasn't sure where the distinction is between "argue" and "debate". "Opposing Views" seemed like a good place to start.

My goal is just to gain insight into the WN movement by periodically asking questions that might shed some light. It's not like you can exactly walk up to a WN on the streets of America and say... "what are your thoughts on such and such..."

Likewise, although I'm sure there are other black members here, I would hope you'd feel free to ask me any questions you want to pose to a black American, and I'll do my best to give you an honest answer, free of political correctness -- and emotionalism.

Good to be aboard.

RP

I have a question for you, when will blacks in America blame the jews for slavery? All blacks do is blame the white man, who profited from the slave trade directly? Who owned the ships? Who financed it? The Jew did.