4 months is a better sentence than he would have gotten in most places here.

Too many people are hung up on the idea that animals aren't people, but fail to recognize that from a purely property standpoint that animals are worth quite a bit to their owners and are as replaceable and irreplaceable as children.

I have ZERO problem with people using whatever amount of force is necessary to defend their animals the same way they can their children or selves. I also feel that way about using force to stop people from stealing or intentionally destroying anything of value that belongs to another. My stuff is replaceable, but the time I put into working for the money to buy it is not. My (past/future) animals had unique 'personalities' and were quite irreplaceable.

If you don't want to be stabbed/shot, don't hurt people's animals, don't steal their stuff, stay out of their cars, don't hurt their kids, and don't hurt them.

The Muthaship:LL316: The Muthaship: That's a great story, and I'm glad the asshole is going to jail.

But, that homeless dude is a f*cking moron.

Ok, I'll bite...why is he a moron?

He jumped off a bridge to save a rabbit. I understand he really liked the rabbit, but he could have been seriously hurt or killed.

True, but he's been homeless since he was 14. If you have one possession in the world, particularly a living breathing one, you probably cling to it pretty tight. It could be the only thing keeping him going. Or maybe you aren't as concerned about being hurt or killed when the only thing you have to lose is being lost right in front of you. Dunno, but I think it would be difficult for any farker to put themselves in the mind of a decades-long homeless person in terms of value placed on things unless they've been there.

The Muthaship:LL316: The Muthaship: That's a great story, and I'm glad the asshole is going to jail.

But, that homeless dude is a f*cking moron.

Ok, I'll bite...why is he a moron?

He jumped off a bridge to save a rabbit. I understand he really liked the rabbit, but he could have been seriously hurt or killed.

As others mentioned they're probably the only things in the world he is socially attached to. And if he's anything like a lot of the homeless in the US, mental stability is not exactly high on his list of attributes.

I hope that kid gets a beating. I don't say that much, but direct purposeful pet cruelty is one of the worst things. Even if the bum and kid were arguing or the kid did it unwarranted, there is never a valid reason

My train home this evening was very dusty... I have so much more than this poor guy and yet I know exactly what made him do what he did. Much love homeless brother, I hope your family are still with you.

SpiderQueenDemon:This thread made me lonesome for the pet bunny I had as a kid, whom my uncreative brother named 'Thumper.' He lived to be eight and had a little side job as the most complete and thorough sensitive-document destroyer ever. (He used to shred, shred some more, then move it to the corner litterbox and crap on it. No ID thief or corporate spy would've touched a thing after Thumper had it.) Anyone who says rabbits don't make good pets hasn't had one like Thumper. He was friends with my then-kitten and perfectly litterbox trained outside his cage.

And if some effing chav had thrown him off a bridge, my brother would have jumped in to save him while our little sister held the chav and I punched him stupid. Good on the homeless fellow, and I hope some pro-animal business sees the value of an employee willing to do so much for our furry friends. If I'd a pet shop, I'd hire him.

Update: I hugged my bunny. And now she's hopping. Mine has a three cage setup (fancy fancy) and only uses the cage with litter in it to do her thing. She's lived with four different cats at one time or another and never had any issue with 'em. Actually, the cats were the ones who would jump and run if she hopped toward them without a care in the world. They really did not get her, but she didn't care. And now it's just her in the house as far as animals go and she gets alll the attention.

specialkae:In a civilized society we do not do that. Never. At all, period. I have some homeless and/or desperate living in my neighborhood, some with pets, and I would never, ever, ever dream of doing that. Ever. Usually an animal is all that a person has to cling to having lost everything else. I've seen many transient/homeless beg food for their cat/dog/whatever first and then food for themselves. But I live in Colorado and we're somewhat animal sensitive around here. Kid that did that should be penalized far worse. Is this the first time he's done such a horrible thing or only the first time he's been caught?

I knew a homeless guy who had a pet dog and slept outside since he couldn't take the dog with him to the shelter. And yes, the dog was better fed than he was.

In a civilized society we do not do that. Never. At all, period. I have some homeless and/or desperate living in my neighborhood, some with pets, and I would never, ever, ever dream of doing that. Ever. Usually an animal is all that a person has to cling to having lost everything else. I've seen many transient/homeless beg food for their cat/dog/whatever first and then food for themselves. But I live in Colorado and we're somewhat animal sensitive around here. Kid that did that should be penalized far worse. Is this the first time he's done such a horrible thing or only the first time he's been caught?

This thread made me lonesome for the pet bunny I had as a kid, whom my uncreative brother named 'Thumper.' He lived to be eight and had a little side job as the most complete and thorough sensitive-document destroyer ever. (He used to shred, shred some more, then move it to the corner litterbox and crap on it. No ID thief or corporate spy would've touched a thing after Thumper had it.) Anyone who says rabbits don't make good pets hasn't had one like Thumper. He was friends with my then-kitten and perfectly litterbox trained outside his cage.

And if some effing chav had thrown him off a bridge, my brother would have jumped in to save him while our little sister held the chav and I punched him stupid. Good on the homeless fellow, and I hope some pro-animal business sees the value of an employee willing to do so much for our furry friends. If I'd a pet shop, I'd hire him.

orbister:netcentric: But to me, the real pisser is that he farked with a homeless person (who may or may not have all his faculties).

I agree. The cruelty to the rabbit was incidental, and in any case no worse than hunters, farmers and foxes do to rabbits by the thousand every day. The truly disturbing thing is the deliberate cruelty to a vulnerable person. That's what should have got this little bastard a serious sentence. Five years of working evenings and weekends at a shelter for the homeless, starting with toilet cleaning, would be a start.

Your ideas are intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Honestly, I'm fine with rabbits being raised as meat - hell, they're the best animal you can raise on a sustainable farm (my bunny litter goes straight in the compost because it's awesome, and she dines happily on herb and veggie garden scraps during the growing season too).

But there's a difference between raising livestock or hunting (humanely in either case, mind you) and a pet. My bunny isn't wild - she knows me and the SO, she's trusting fairly quickly with anyone we introduce her to (has to check them out first, being a prey animal and all)... and it's because she's our pet, dammit, and gets huge amounts of love and attention. Destroying that, especially from someone who doesn't have much of anything else in this world and who has probably poured more love and attention into that bunny than I could possibly imagine... goddamn.

The silver lining to this story, other than the bunny making it, is that I learned rabbits can swim.

tigerose:Well, can't say I lurved the music, but I can say I am happy the bunny made it. Yes, they can be destructive little Lagomorphs, but they are damn cute flower destoyers! And for this kid to just walk uo, grab the bunny and toss it? WTF? Too bad someone didn't woopass him on the spot!

Yeah, anybody who would think that's entertaining really should be recycled.

Well, can't say I lurved the music, but I can say I am happy the bunny made it. Yes, they can be destructive little Lagomorphs, but they are damn cute flower destoyers! And for this kid to just walk uo, grab the bunny and toss it? WTF? Too bad someone didn't woopass him on the spot!

LL316:The Muthaship: LL316: The Muthaship: That's a great story, and I'm glad the asshole is going to jail.

But, that homeless dude is a f*cking moron.

Ok, I'll bite...why is he a moron?

He jumped off a bridge to save a rabbit. I understand he really liked the rabbit, but he could have been seriously hurt or killed.

And he has so much to live for otherwise? I think it's a safe assumption to guess that the rabbit and dog are his family by this point, since he's been on the streets since age 14.

Former homeless here. I had a dog (Rot/mutt mix) that was literally the only thing that helped keep me sane. I got her when she was a pup about 6 months old. She listened when I talked, helped keep me warm on cold nights, gave me warning when someone approached us, was always ready for a head scratch or just to put her head in my lap and hang out and stayed beside me when the "friends" that introduced me to the drugs that started a downward spiral that left me homeless abandoned me.

Would I have jumped in a river to save her? Absolutely! Would I have lost my mind on anyone who hurt her? Without a second thought.

I just hate this guy is still homeless and begging.

/clean for 12 years.//Sheba is in a grave in my fathers back yard. When I finally got on my feet and stable, her health declined to the point the vet said it would be best to put her down. Her hips and legs were giving out on her and our poor diet for so long didn't help.///I miss her.

The Muthaship:vrax: Of course, this answer shows a massive failure at understanding humanity, so I'm sure it's the wrong answer. Right, The Muthaship?

No. You're right. He put half his 'family' in jeopardy by jumping in the river after the rabbit. He could have been killed (probably as the rabbit swam to shore) and left them both to fend for themselves! How selfish of him.

Actually, if his life is now worth the same or less to him than that of a rabbit, he might as well jump off every bridge he sees.

/It's a f*cking rabbit!//if this dude was made of lettuce it would eat him in his sleep!

So, yeah, "massive failure at understanding humanity" is the answer. If you can't understand saving the bunny, I doubt that you can truly understand why someone would risk their lives for much of anything.

It goes like this: the party has just beaten the Big Bad Evil Guy. The room beyond him is mostly empty, but the exit door is locked. Magic fails to budge the door, and lockpicks simply break. Next to the door is a small table, and on the table is a small gilt cage. There are two things in the cage. One is a key that looks like it might fit the lock; it is taped to the cage floor. The other is a small white rabbit, which is currently asleep.

The actual solution is simply to open the cage, take out the key, and use it to unlock the door. The point of the puzzle, though, is to sit back and laugh while the party goes through ridiculous contortions not to touch the cage or disturb the rabbit.

I'm not opposed to killing animals. Or using them to test products for safety. But if you are going to do these things be compassionate about it. If the animal is a nuisance or you need to eat make it as quick and painless as you would want it to be for you. To be that mean to an animal that has done no wrong in order to feel superior to the associated human, punishment should be swift and sure.

4 months is the wrong punishment. A year of inpatient psych with lots of "therapy". And make sure everyone knows about until age 30. You know the drill - local PD, employers, neighbors etc.

The thing that impressed me is that, upon looking closely at the picture, it is obvious that rabbit wasn't from a pet store. That's a genuine wild rabbit that this guy has somehow managed to tame. No easy feat, I might add.

StreetlightInTheGhetto:orbister: netcentric: But to me, the real pisser is that he farked with a homeless person (who may or may not have all his faculties).

I agree. The cruelty to the rabbit was incidental, and in any case no worse than hunters, farmers and foxes do to rabbits by the thousand every day. The truly disturbing thing is the deliberate cruelty to a vulnerable person. That's what should have got this little bastard a serious sentence. Five years of working evenings and weekends at a shelter for the homeless, starting with toilet cleaning, would be a start.

Your ideas are intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Honestly, I'm fine with rabbits being raised as meat - hell, they're the best animal you can raise on a sustainable farm (my bunny litter goes straight in the compost because it's awesome, and she dines happily on herb and veggie garden scraps during the growing season too).

But there's a difference between raising livestock or hunting (humanely in either case, mind you) and a pet. My bunny isn't wild - she knows me and the SO, she's trusting fairly quickly with anyone we introduce her to (has to check them out first, being a prey animal and all)... and it's because she's our pet, dammit, and gets huge amounts of love and attention. Destroying that, especially from someone who doesn't have much of anything else in this world and who has probably poured more love and attention into that bunny than I could possibly imagine... goddamn.

[dingo.care2.com image 600x450]

The silver lining to this story, other than the bunny making it, is that I learned rabbits can swim.

Dr Dreidel:Mitch Taylor's Bro: I know that correlation is not causation, but there is a correlation between people who commit acts of animal cruelty and sociopaths who move on to committing more serious crimes against humans. That's why I think acts of animal cruelty need to be handled differently.

So? People who steal candy bars as kids are more likely to lead "lives of crime" as they age - does that mean petty theft gets met with therapy only as well?

Ahh, I see the disconnect. You seem to have missed this sentence in the post I was responding to: "A year of inpatient psych with lots of "therapy"." [critical word bolded by yours truly for emphasis.]

This means that the perp would be removed from polite society for longer than his 4-month jail sentence while he received evaluation and counseling about his complete lack of empathy for other living creatures.

Cold_Sassy:Thanks for the link. That was a very good article although at times it was hard to read. I can't believe the things that people do to poor animals.

You're welcome. Yes, it's hard to believe people would do bad things to innocent animals...until you realize the things people do to other innocent people. Humans have an incredible capacity for evil...which is only balanced out by our incredible capacity for kindness. At least I hope it balances out somehow.

It goes like this: the party has just beaten the Big Bad Evil Guy. The room beyond him is mostly empty, but the exit door is locked. Magic fails to budge the door, and lockpicks simply break. Next to the door is a small table, and on the table is a small gilt cage. There are two things in the cage. One is a key that looks like it might fit the lock; it is taped to the cage floor. The other is a small white rabbit, which is currently asleep.

The actual solution is simply to open the cage, take out the key, and use it to unlock the door. The point of the puzzle, though, is to sit back and laugh while the party goes through ridiculous contortions not to touch the cage or disturb the rabbit.

Yeah, and goddamm you and all the other clever GMs.Bullshiat puzzles, wish spells that go horribly wrong because of a pronoun, decks of many things all over the place, camouflaged-slime molds, making sure the most reckless of the party finds the wand of wonder... oops, forgot to look up- surprise cloaker!

Mitch Taylor's Bro:Dr Dreidel: Mitch Taylor's Bro: simon_bar_sinister: 4 months is the wrong punishment. A year of inpatient psych with lots of "therapy". And make sure everyone knows about until age 30. You know the drill - local PD, employers, neighbors etc.

This. Being around regular criminals in a regular jail/prison is just going to broaden the young sociopath's horizons. He needs help for his mental illness and a note in his criminal records that show that he could develop into a full-blown sociopath. That way, the local police can keep an eye on him.

He is a "regular criminal". If he'd stolen a Twinkie from a convenience store (or "done the barest minimum to warrant any kind of jail time"), would we be asking to segregate him out?

Jail is for people who commit (certain types of) crimes. The way you laid it out, every offender who didn't rape or kill would be sent to therapy rather than jail.

// alternatively, this type of "rehabilitative therapy" is exactly what jails/prisons should be doing anyway, so...I agree?// I'm a seamstress?!

I know that correlation is not causation, but there is a correlation between people who commit acts of animal cruelty and sociopaths who move on to committing more serious crimes against humans. That's why I think acts of animal cruelty need to be handled differently.

NY Times article, "The Animal-Cruelty Syndrome."

Thanks for the link. That was a very good article although at times it was hard to read. I can't believe the things that people do to poor animals.

In DEC, it was reported that the bunny-throwing miscreant has already been tried: "The court heard that Kearney was brought up in care, has 138 previous convictions and is already in detention at St Patrick's Institution." http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/12/04/youth-threw-homeless-mans-r abbit-dublin-sentenced_n_2236642.html

The story has a little lag on it so wanted to reference the time-frame - this happend in JUL 2011. Couldn't find out of the owner, John Byrne had received donations through any particular group, that's what I was looking for.

138 convictions and the kid hasn't had his shiate beaten straight yet?

"all the world will be your enemy... be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed."that part makes me cry every time, and now i know that it's because it's about us.too soon old, too late smart!but really, could some rich coont just fix this? what is it, the price of a vacay?

Dr Dreidel:Mitch Taylor's Bro: simon_bar_sinister: 4 months is the wrong punishment. A year of inpatient psych with lots of "therapy". And make sure everyone knows about until age 30. You know the drill - local PD, employers, neighbors etc.

This. Being around regular criminals in a regular jail/prison is just going to broaden the young sociopath's horizons. He needs help for his mental illness and a note in his criminal records that show that he could develop into a full-blown sociopath. That way, the local police can keep an eye on him.

He is a "regular criminal". If he'd stolen a Twinkie from a convenience store (or "done the barest minimum to warrant any kind of jail time"), would we be asking to segregate him out?

Jail is for people who commit (certain types of) crimes. The way you laid it out, every offender who didn't rape or kill would be sent to therapy rather than jail.

// alternatively, this type of "rehabilitative therapy" is exactly what jails/prisons should be doing anyway, so...I agree?// I'm a seamstress?!

I know that correlation is not causation, but there is a correlation between people who commit acts of animal cruelty and sociopaths who move on to committing more serious crimes against humans. That's why I think acts of animal cruelty need to be handled differently.

selfish, but here it comes: this whole story makes me sad for my country. i don't think it would happen here, that the kid would get in any trouble, or that any notice would be taken. our Puritan-to-evangelical background teaches that animals are nearly nothing- it's a sick idea, but it's endemic. on a side note: five thousand people in Ireland are homeless? seems like a single rich coont could fix that.

Vodka Zombie:Take everything that punk owns or calls his own and give it to the homeless guy and his bunny.

That would be justice.

THIS.

/goddammit why am I at work right now//I need to hug my bunny ASAP

Electromax:The Muthaship: LL316: The Muthaship: That's a great story, and I'm glad the asshole is going to jail.

But, that homeless dude is a f*cking moron.

Ok, I'll bite...why is he a moron?

He jumped off a bridge to save a rabbit. I understand he really liked the rabbit, but he could have been seriously hurt or killed.

True, but he's been homeless since he was 14. If you have one possession in the world, particularly a living breathing one, you probably cling to it pretty tight. It could be the only thing keeping him going. Or maybe you aren't as concerned about being hurt or killed when the only thing you have to lose is being lost right in front of you. Dunno, but I think it would be difficult for any farker to put themselves in the mind of a decades-long homeless person in terms of value placed on things unless they've been there.

simon_bar_sinister:4 months is the wrong punishment. A year of inpatient psych with lots of "therapy". And make sure everyone knows about until age 30. You know the drill - local PD, employers, neighbors etc.

This. Being around regular criminals in a regular jail/prison is just going to broaden the young sociopath's horizons. He needs help for his mental illness and a note in his criminal records that show that he could develop into a full-blown sociopath. That way, the local police can keep an eye on him.

MorePeasPlease:I saw a similar POS local "policeman" do this to a poor kid's kitten in Honduras ... grabbed it right out of the kid's arms and dangled it by the scruff of its neck over a bridge laughing his ass of at the kid crying the whole time.

I guess it happened a lot down there because nobody seemed to give a crap, but I totally lost my shiat and ran straight at the farker just as he started his toss. I body-checked from behind and sent him lurching over the rail headfirst into the drink. The kitten was still arcing through the air for what seemed forever until I realized that it wasn't time that was creeping, the kitten was actually slowly rising through the air above the river like a furry balloon . The boy was pointing up and begging for someone to help as the little thing kept slowly going higher so I tried getting the cops, but I had pushed him off the bridge.

This story reminds me of a homeless man I'd see all the time in the small town where I went to college. One day I walked by him downtown and noticed he had a Siamese cat on a leash. He saw me looking and said "do you like my cat? He gets along great with my possum." The man opened his coat and sure enough, there was a baby possum in there. I imagine he didn't keep the possum for too long once it grew a bit, but I'd see him nearly every day walking around town with that cat on a leash.