Lou Barletta says illegal immigrants are overfilling schools in Hazleton, Pa., cramming local health clinics and overrunning the playground where he once played basketball.

Barletta, mayor of the city of 22,000 south of Wilkes-Barre, says illegal immigration is "destroying small towns" that don't have the budget to deal with the influx.

So Barletta proposed a law that fines landlords for renting to illegal immigrants and punishes employers for hiring them. The City Council passed the measure, and Barletta signed it into law last month. To implement it, Barletta wants to require renters to go to City Hall and obtain a permit assuring landlords that they are in the USA legally. That would require a background check with the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

Barletta says that even though the law isn't in effect yet, it's having an impact: "People are leaving daily."

Hazleton's requirements are strict, but other communities also are targeting landlords and employers. A similar law passed recently in Riverside, N.J., and others are being drafted or voted on in several other communities where leaders have complained for months about inaction by federal lawmakers.

"If a byproduct of this is to send out a message and embarrass the people out in D.C., then maybe that's good," says Andy Anderson, a councilman in Palm Bay, Fla. The city of 93,000 is one reading away from adopting a law that would fine anyone who employs an illegal immigrant a minimum of $500.

"This is a test case that will serve as a model for challenges around the country," says criminal defense lawyer David Vaida of Allentown, Pa. He has joined forces with the Puerto Rican Legal Defense and Education Fund and the Pennsylvania chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union and says they are preparing a lawsuit.

"I don't think there was a municipality in the country until this came up that has ever required such a thing," he says. "Have you ever heard of a tenant needing an occupancy permit?"

Kris Kobach, once an immigration adviser to former attorney general John Ashcroft, disagrees. He says it is possible to draft a local ordinance that deals with immigration that will stand up to judicial scrutiny. He has helped several states draft immigration-related bills, including one in Utah that would penalize employers. Four states have passed similar laws this spring: Georgia, Louisiana, Colorado and Pennsylvania.

"States and localities bear a significant amount of the burden for dealing with illegal aliens, but the federal government bears the brunt of enforcing the law," Kobach says. "And when they don't, states and local governments pay the price."

Joseph Turner, an activist in San Bernardino, Calif. (population 199,000), pushed the idea before Hazleton adopted its law. The City Council declined to vote on it, and Turner was unable to gather enough signatures to put it on the ballot. He says passage across the country will "put enormous pressure on the federal government to come up with a solution that will finally solve this problem once and for all."

Barletta, meanwhile, says he has been contacted by officials from 30 towns asking for a copy of Hazleton's law.

Ha ha...I was at a restaurant a few weeks ago when it first passed, and the mayor and his wife came in and everyone there not only applauded him, but gave him a stanting ovation, at that!

As I've said before, I'm not racist and I'm all for giving people a chance at the American Dream and all. But for crying out loud, that murder you probably have heard about along with this story happened three blocks from where I live. And the clincher of the whole thing was that one of the illegal aliens that were charged with the murder had been arrested and then released on 8 separate occasions!

I understand completely, you're preachin' to the choir here. But there are many that call those of us that who want controlled, orderly immigration racist bigots. It's shocking to me.

Just to be clear ... I really don't think you would be called a racist bigot just for wanting to control immigration.

Again, you'd need to live here. I can see how you could say that having not experiencing it, but we experience it here every day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by needforspeed

Some of the stuff posted on this forum has been racist and bigoted (including your sig at one point), but the principle of enforcing immigration law does not come into this category.

I have never posted anything that was racist and\or bigoted, maybe some have, but I have not seen it. Oh, the "Mexifornia" driver license was, but I posted it as an example. Thank you for understanding that enforcing the law is not racist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by needforspeed

I don't have any problem with a law that requires renters to have a permit confirming their citizenship and landlords having an obligation only to rent to people with that permit.

The supporters of open borders here have a huge problem with it, they call it racist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by needforspeed

This would be racist if it only applied to a certain ethnic group (e.g. mexicans). So long as it applies to EVERYONE ... it is perfectly fair and reasonable. In fact it's quite a clever idea.

Of course it would apply to everyone. It would be blatantly racist if it only apply to, for example, Mexicans.

Fact: Illegal Immigrants are, by default, criminals. Most of them are also thieves as they take free medical care, medical care that is not meant for them and they do not pay for. Also they take from our educational systems, whichy they do not pay for and is not meant for them. There is also a larger criminal element beyond that, for example drug smuggling, robbery and murder.

The real problem is not that there are people that want to work in the United States, nor that there are U.S. employers that want to hire non U.S. citizens, but that there is an unavailability of visas to allow either party to do so legally.

In the UK there are various checks and balances which would determine eligibility for schooling and healthcare.

Birth's must be registered and Birth Certificates produced to confirm various entitlements. All British subjects have a National Insurance number and National Health Service treatment requires an NHS 'card'.

I am certain that similar systems exist in the US which could be used to identify illegal immigrants, but it seems pretty clear that there is a deliberate desire not to do so.

Like I said - I think the law sounds sensible and it is clearly not racist so long as it applies to EVERYONE.

I do think your earlier sig was bigoted and I think you agreed this in another thread.

The real problem is not that there are people that want to work in the United States, nor that there are U.S. employers that want to hire non U.S. citizens, but that there is an unavailability of visas to allow either party to do so legally.

Mr Silver - I would like to hear another view than CMD's.

Clearly a lot of illegal immigrants are working in the US and the economic system (to some extent) may (or may not) actually depend on this.

Why is it that illegal immigrants currently employed in the US cannot obtain work visa's and hence 'correct' their status?

Also ... how is it possible for illegal imigrants to obtain schooling and healthcare without the authorities uncovering and acting on their illegal status?

It seems to me that perhaps the authorities are deliberately not enforcing immigration law in respect of illegal immigrants already in the US and the anti immigration propagandists don't really explain why.

Clearly a lot of illegal immigrants are working in the US and the economic system (to some extent) may (or may not) actually depend on this.

Why is it that illegal immigrants currently employed in the US cannot obtain work visa's and hence 'correct' their status?

OK,

You asked for it.

There is only a certain number of nonimmigrant (temporary) visas available each fiscal year. This is referred to as a cap count for Non-Immigrant Workers.

The word “Cap” refers to annual numerical limitations set by Congress on the numbers of workers authorized to be admitted on different types of visas or authorized to change status if already in the United States.

If an individual is inside of the United States unlawfully, they are not eligible to apply for legal status inside of the country and they must return to their native country before they are eligible to return in lawful status.

If an individual is inside of the U.S. unlawfully for a period of more than 180 days but less than one year if they depart they will trigger a 3 year bar the second they depart.

If an individual is inside of the U.S. unlawfully for a period of more than one year if they depart they will trigger a 10 year bar the second they depart.

This means that if you jumped the border you aren't getting a working visa, and if you leave to get one, in many cases you will be barred from returning to the country.

In any event, there are various forms of temporary visas that non citizens may apply for. The H classification is typically what most workers fall into.

The H-1B, Specialty Occupation Visa Category- People with 4 year degrees or their equivalent

The H-1B nonimmigrant visa category is utilized by some U.S. employers to employ foreign workers in specialty occupations that require theoretical or technical expertise in a specialized field. Typical H-1B occupations include architects, engineers, computer programmers, accountants, doctors and college professors. The H-1B visa program also includes fashion models. The current annual cap on the H-1B category is 65,000.

H-1B Advanced Degree Exemption

The H-1B Visa Reform Act of 2004, which took effect on May 5, 2005, changed the H-1B filing procedures for FY 2005 and for future fiscal years. The Act also makes available 20,000 new H-1B visas for foreign workers with a Master’s or higher level degree from a U.S. academic institution.

H-2B Seasonal Workers

The H-2B visa category allows U.S. employers in industries with peak load, seasonal or intermittent needs to augment their existing labor force with temporary workers. The H-2B visa category also allows U.S. employers to augment their existing labor force when necessary due to a one-time occurrence which necessitates a temporary increase in workers.

On May 25, 2005, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) began accepting additional petitions for H-2B workers as required by the Save Our Small and Seasonal Businesses Act of 2005 (SOS Act). The SOS Act allowed USCIS to accept filings beginning May 25, 2005 for two types of H-2B workers seeking work start dates as early as immediately.

For FY 2006, the total annual numerical limit or cap is 66,000.

So what does this all mean:

Basically, there are literally millions of people who want to come to the United States to work as seasonal workers, or in other low paying jobs that United States citizens are not willing to take.

Many Americans make more money by not working than if they take these types of jobs. It doesn't make any sense for someone to bust their ass and get less money than if they do nothing but have multiple fatherless children.

This is a fact.

Our economy would be crippled without our foreign work force. Furthermore, there are jobs that Americans are simply not qualified to take. It is no secret that there is a shortage of qualified United States citizens to fill positions in the world of math, science, and medicine, and our employers can no longer hire qualified non United States citizens because of the unavailability of H-1B visas.

Bottom line:

America is losing.

If you expand the amount fo H-1B visas for specialized workers, as well as expanding the amount of H-2B visas for seasonal workers, there would be a way for U.S. employers to hire people legally, and the illegal work force would dry up.

Not to mention the fact that a legal worker, is paying taxes, which benefits our economy.

Our problem is not that people want to work in our country.

Our problem is that U.S. employers enable undocumented aliens to work here without authorization which makes jumping the border all the more appealing.

In the UK there are various checks and balances which would determine eligibility for schooling and healthcare.

Birth's must be registered and Birth Certificates produced to confirm various entitlements. All British subjects have a National Insurance number and National Health Service treatment requires an NHS 'card'.

I am certain that similar systems exist in the US which could be used to identify illegal immigrants, but it seems pretty clear that there is a deliberate desire not to do so.

Like I said - I think the law sounds sensible and it is clearly not racist so long as it applies to EVERYONE.

I do think your earlier sig was bigoted and I think you agreed this in another thread.

I removed that portion of my sig once I attracted an audience using it, some accusing me of being a bigot. I do not feel it is bigoted, I feel it is an absolute truth – a fact. I decided that since this is a forum for E90 enthusiasts, I should keep my feelings to posts in the Off Topic Area, and not in my sig. I do still keep the mexican flag there, as where I live, I feel like a guest in my own country.

I’m wondering, how do you think our equivalent of your NHS should deal with mothers that wait until they are actually in labor and crowing, climb our border fences and give birth in the dirt on the U.S. side of the fence, in order that their child is a U.S. citizen? Do you think they are abusing the law? Is their behavior justified? As I posted before, this happens several times a day every day. And many do it over and over again as soon as they are physically able.

I removed that portion of my sig once I attracted an audience using it, some accusing me of being a bigot. I do not feel it is bigoted, I feel it is an absolute truth – a fact. I decided that since this is a forum for E90 enthusiasts, I should keep my feelings to posts in the Off Topic Area, and not in my sig. I do still keep the mexican flag there, as where I live, I feel like a guest in my own country.

I’m wondering, how do you think our equivalent of your NHS should deal with mothers that wait until they are actually in labor and crowing, climb our border fences and give birth in the dirt on the U.S. side of the fence, in order that their child is a U.S. citizen? Do you think they are abusing the law? Is their behavior justified? As I posted before, this happens several times a day every day. And many do it over and over again as soon as they are physically able.

I think you agreed that you sig made you appear to be a racist and a bigot in this thread.

As I said then I accept this was not your intention, but it was something that could easily be misconstrued and I am glad you changed it.

I don't believe your stories about mothers scaling borders fences whilst crowning. I think this is physically impossible. However, I do believe that it is highly likely that pregnant women will try to enter the US illegally to try and secure citizenship for their children.

I think 'their behaviour' is morally understandable and excusable - why would they not want to secure a slice of the american dream for their children?

However, I agree that it is illegal and that the law against it should be enforced.

In the UK we all have NHS 'cards' in effect these are not checked other than when you initially register with a family doctor (GP)

Chances are that an illegal immigrant seeking NHS treatment would have no medical history and so if they presented to a doctor or hospital, they would find it difficult to enter the NHS 'system'. I'm guessing that the process would be that the immigration authorities would be informed, but that they would recieve treatment at NHS cost until their case was decided.

Typically, once the authorities are informed the immigrant (if illegal) would make an asylum claim and hence attempt to obtain UK citizenship. There is a fair bit of scandal about our asylum system, which is woefully slow, and chances are that the immigrants case might take many months to determine.

Some are granted, but many are refused and deported. The point is that the system does not turn a 'blind eye' - it should deal with the cases faster - but it does deal with them in the end and illegal immigrants are not allowed to stay in the UK illegally with the knowledge of the authorities.

Similarly, immigrants children would be entitled to education whilst their cases were decided - again at our cost.

Where there is a risk that the immigrants may abscond then they may be held in secure facilities - again at our cost.

I think it's a good system (albeit badly administered at present) I am proud that my country offers asylum to people suffering persecution overseas, I'm also proud that every case is heard on it's merits.

It would be nice if everyone could have what we have - but clearly this doesn't work in real life, so their has to be a limit (and law) and purely economic migrants - who come to the UK from outside of the legal system should not be granted asylum.

The key difference here is that we are an island and that we do not share a border with a large 3rd world country. On that basis the US could be forgiven for enforcing it's border security more vigorously.

Our 'problem' at the moment is that new countries joining the EU are free to work in other EU countries without visas. Thus we have a huge influx of Polish migrants, if this were to flow to other accession states unchecked then our economy might be affected. However, this is actually a bigger problem for poland since they are losing a substantial part of their workforce.

Interestingly, we can't find enough nurses and doctors to work in our NHS - so we are 'importing' them from Africa and the Indian subcontinent. Although the BNP and other pressure groups scaremonger about immigration the flow of people into the Uk is actually comparable to the level of emigration (or less).

Basically, there are literally millions of people who want to come to the United States to work as seasonal workers, or in other low paying jobs that United States citizens are not willing to take.

Many Americans make more money by not working than if they take these types of jobs. It doesn't make any sense for someone to bust their ass and get less money than if they do nothing but have multiple fatherless children.

This is a fact.

Our economy would be crippled without our foreign work force. Furthermore, there are jobs that Americans are simply not qualified to take. It is no secret that there is a shortage of qualified United States citizens to fill positions in the world of math, science, and medicine, and our employers can no longer hire qualified non United States citizens because of the unavailability of H-1B visas.

Bottom line:

America is losing.

If you expand the amount fo H-1B visas for specialized workers, as well as expanding the amount of H-2B visas for seasonal workers, there would be a way for U.S. employers to hire people legally, and the illegal work force would dry up.

Not to mention the fact that a legal worker, is paying taxes, which benefits our economy.

Our problem is not that people want to work in our country.

Our problem is that U.S. employers enable undocumented aliens to work here without authorization which makes jumping the border all the more appealing.

So America needs immigrant workers to maintain it's economy, but many are entering the country illegally because the visa system will not permit them to do so legally?

So if it were not for the illegal immigrants, it would be apparent that there is a huge worker shortage and the US would probably react by actively encouraging legal immigration.

So instead of reviewing immigration law - and developing a mechanism to deal with all of the illegal immigrants already in the country - are the US authorities turning a blind eye to the situation - because it works?

So is the answer to tighten up the border security, open up the visa system and try to get the working illegal immigrants already in the US legal, so that they start paying taxes and contributing?

So instead of reviewing immigration law - and developing a mechanism to deal with all of the illegal immigrants already in the country - are the US authorities turning a blind eye to the situation - because it works?

Most politicians don't want to appear to be pro immigrant because the common misconception is that immigrants are taking jobs away from United States citizens.

The reality is that many (if not most) Americans are fat, dumb, and lazy, and don't want to work. The MTV generation is looking for somthin for nothin and the chix for free.