WEBVTT SOLEDAD: I'M SOLEDAD O'BRIEN.WELCOME TO "MATTER OF FACT."THREE YEARS AGO ON JULY 17,2014, ERIC GARNER DIED AFTER HEWAS RESTRAINED BY NEW YORK CITYPOLICE OFFICERS ON STATENISLAND.SUSPECTED OF SELLING LUCIES ORSINGLE CIGARETTES, POLICARRESTED HIM, AND PLACED HIM INA BANNED CHOKEHOLD.GARNER PROTESTED OVER AND OVERTHAT HE COULDN'T BREATHE.WITHIN AN HOUR, THE 43-YEAR-OLDWAS DEAD.GARNER'S DEATH WAS ONE IN ASERIES OF INCIDENTS THAT FOCUSEDNATIONAL ATTENTION ON POLICEVIOLENCE AGAINST BLACKAMERICANS.A NEW BOOK CALLED "CHOKEHOLD"CLAIMS THE WIDESPREAD IDEA THATBLACK MEN ARE MORE PRONE TOVIOLENCE IS ONE THE JUSTICESYSTEM HAS PERPETRATED FORDECADES.PAUL BUTLER IS A FORMER FEDERALPROSECUTOR AND AUTHOR OF"CHOKEHOLD."ALSO, A PROFESSOR OF LAW ATGEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY.THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.PAUL BUTLER: IT'S GREAT TO BESOLEDAD: YOUR BOOK IS AMAZINGAND ALSO KIND OF OVERWHELMINGLYTOUGH TO READ AS WELL.WHY DID YOU CALL IT "CHOKEHOLD?"PAUL BUTLER: THE CHOKEHOLD IS ATWO-STEP PROCESS.IT IS ABOUT HOW BLACK MEN AREPERCEIVED.WE OFTEN ARE VIEWED AS THUGS.THERE IS A LOT OF ANXIETY, A LOTOF FEAR AROUND US.SO STEP ONE, THE CONSTRUCTION OFTHE THUG.STEP TWO IS ALL THIS LAW ANDSOCIAL PRACTICES TO DEAL WITNOT WANTING TO SIT NEXT TO BLACKIKELY TO SHOOT US.COMPLY, BUT YOU SOLEDAD: SOS PUT ONPEOPGATHAT IE YOU SAW A HUMAN KILLED ONTELEVISION.YOU SAW THE ENTIRE PROCESS.PAUL BUTLER: POLICE IN AMERICAKILL ABOUT 1000 PEOPLE A YEAR.AND IN 10 YEARS, THERE WEREFEWER THAN 50 PROSECUTIONS OFTHOSE OFFICERS AND ONLY ABOUT 11WERE CONVICTED.SO WHY IS THATIN "CHOKEHOLD," I SUGGEST THESYSTEM IS ACTUALLY WORKIWAY IT IS SUPPOSED TO.THE POLICE HAVE SUPER POWERS,SO, OFTEN WHEN THEY KILL AFRICANAMERICANS, IT IS PERFECTLYLEGAL.WHAT THE COURT HAS DONE ISEMPOWERED THE POLICE.AND BY COURT, I MEAN THE SUPREMECOURT HAS EMPOWERED THE POLICEWITH THE ABILITY TO MAKE ARRESTSFOR ANYTHING.I TALK ABOUT A CASE THE SUPREMECOURT HEARD IN TEXAS WHERE THEYARRESTED A WOMAN FOR DRIVINGWITHOUT A SEAT BELT.LOCKED HER UP AND TOOK HER TO.THE CRAZY THING WAS IF YOU AREGUILTY OF THAT CRIME, YOU DON'GO TO JAIL.IT IS A $50 FINE.SUPREME COURT SAID IT DIDN'T.YOU CAN STILL BE ARRESTED, EVENIF YOU CAN'T BE LOCKED UP IF YARE GUILTY.FOR USING DEADLY FORCE, FRACIAL PROFILING, FOR MAKINGARRESTS FOR ANY LITTLE OLDCRTHOSE POWERS AGAINST BLACK MEN.SOLEDAD: THERE IS A PHILOSOPHYTHAT WOULD SAY IT IS NOT THATTHE ENTIRE SYSTEM IS CORRUPT,THAT YOU HAVE SOME BAD ACTORS,BAD APPLES IN THE BARREL IF YOUWILL.PAUL BUTLER: I DON'T THINKPOLICE OFFICERS ARE ANY MORERACIST OR HAVE ANY MORE BAGGAGEAROUND RACE THAN LAW PROFESSORS,THAN ARTISTS, THAN ANYONE ELSEIN OUR SOCIETY.AGAIN, THE PROBLEM ISN'T WITHTHEM.THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE WAY THEYENFORCE THEIR LAW IS ALL ABOUTVIOLENCE.UNFORTUNATELY, IT IS ALL ABOUTUSING CRIMINAL LAW TO TREATISSUES THAT ARE MUCH MORE ABOUTPUBLIC HEALTH, ABOUT WAYS TOKEEP FAMILIES WHOLE.IF WE LOOK AT WHO'S LOCKED UP,SOLEDAD, 80% OF PEOPLE WHO AREIN PRISON ARE EITHER ADDICTS ORMENTALLY ILL.SO, HOW CAN WE ASK THE POLICE TODEAL WITH PROBLEMS LIKE THAT?UNFORTUNATELY, AS A SOCIETY,THAT'S OUR INVESTMENT.OUR INVESTMENT IS IN LAWENFORCEMENT RATHER THANTREATMENT, RATHER THAN PUBLICHEALTH, RATHER THAN GREATSCHOOLS AND JOB TRAINING.AND IF YOU ARE A SOCIETY THATHAS A LOT OF FEAR AND ANXIETYAROUND AFRICAN AMERICAN MEN,THEN YOUR SOLUTION IS GOING TOBE INCARCERATION, LOCKING THEMUP, TRYING TO CONTROL THEM.SOLEDAD: THE BOOK IS CALLED

Former Prosecutor: Criminal Justice System is Designed for Control

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Updated: 3:13 PM CDT Jul 21, 2017

This week marks the three-year anniversary of the death of Eric Garner, who died during an arrest by NYC police officials. They had used a banned chokehold and continued after he was already on the ground, despite Garner’s repeated protests that he couldn’t breathe. The video of the incident sparked outrage across the nation, becoming one of the many police-involved deaths protested by the Black Lives Matter movement. Yet, Paul Butler, a former federal prosecutor says police violence and selective enforcement are legal components of the American criminal justice system, set up to give police “super powers.” He joins Soledad O’Brien to discuss his recent book “Chokehold,” where he asserts the criminal justice system is designed to control African American men and why police officers are not to blame.