Magic moving a typical physical force or object doesn't change the obect of force... Unless if a typical force or object is being enhanced by magic that it changes the nature of that object or forces "aura" just like Superman's "aura" protects his earth made uniform making it as strong as he is or the flashes aura protects him and his uniform form friction which should melt any speedster into gel.

1. Post crisis, (prezero hour?) all the kryptonians were genetically locked tot he planet for some reason. This had been the status quo for so many millennia, that they forgot about it when they started up their space program again and several thousand colonists died as their ship left the atmospheric boundary. If the Guardians didn't work around this, because they couldn't be stuffed, that would mean that any kryptonian was given the power of spaceflight would immediately die if they edged a freckle too far form the planets surface.

2. A Kryptonian can move and think and react at relativistic speeds. Just the same as if Barry Allen had had a Green Lantern Ring and he could create half a billion deadly constructs rushing towards endgame and checkmate picosecopnds after he'd decided to destroy the opposition.

Plus I don't think it has ever been explained why Clark is vulnerable to magic. It might have been a thing invented when they first introduced Mxy.

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I always thought it might be a neat idea if he were vulnerable to magic because he was raised as a human and thus possessed of a human imagination and human belief structure. I.e., an Alan Moore's Promethea take on magic as applied to the DCU. How would an alien have reacted to the "apocalypse"*?--which there (spoiler for a five year old book!) was depicted as a global hallucination correlated with electromagnetic field disturbances (it's left explicitly ambiguous whether the EM flux causes the hallucination--which would raise the question where the EM flux came from, or whether the magic-driven hallucination caused the EM flux; the point is, magic was a physical phenomenon, but mainly confined to your own subjective experience of the world).

Whereas were Supergirl to fight Captain Marvel, all she sees is just a little boy. And then she breaks his neck, because even though he's not really threatening, those black soulless eyes compel her hands.

It almost certainly couldn't work, but I think it's a fun notion to think about, asking the question "What the hell is magic, anyway?"

*Well, the robot experienced it as well, so maybe just the same. P.S. The Painted Doll is the awesomest Joker pastiche ever, and frankly he's a lot cooler than that lame duck of an IP. But he's trapped in America's Best Comics forever because Alan Moore wants all his ideas to die with him.

Guy Gardner said:

2. A Kryptonian can move and think and react at relativistic speeds. Just the same as if Barry Allen had had a Green Lantern Ring and he could create half a billion deadly constructs rushing towards endgame and checkmate picosecopnds after he'd decided to destroy the opposition.

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Yeah, that'd be a broken character. Like, Zatanna Broken. Worse.

Tangent! I have never, ever understood how Gorilla Grodd became like the no. 2 Flash villain. Like, Batman? Yeah, Batman would have trouble with a super-intelligent telepathic gorilla. But the fucking Flash? You can't mind control a man who thinks at lightspeed. And the "strength of a mountain gorilla" is, honestly, not terribly impressive. 5.56X45mm NATO standard cartridges rather easily surpass the strength of a mountain gorilla. You can't mind control bullets either.

To be fair, I have the same problem with 90% of the Flash's Rogues Gallery--other than Captain Cold, who can explicitly counter his speed, the Top, who has super-speed, Kadabra, who is the future, and of course Thawne and Johns' weak-ass, worst-villain-concept-ever knockoff--none of these guys should ever give a man who has the mass of a planet any trouble at all. I mean, fucking Heat Wave? A man with a flame thrower is a super-villain? Really?

I thought Myx's magic derived from the fact that he was extradimensional, and Superman being from our four-dimensional spacetime continuum was therefore as vulnerable to that as any normal being from our universe.

Same with Magic. It's a nebulous thing that defies logic, physics and reality. There's no reason it SHOULDN'T affect Superman.

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That about sums it up. I would also guess that the types of magic that can effect Superman would have to be big feats of magics. Throwing boulders at him wouldn't be a problem, however a direct hit with (for argument's sake only) "Avada Kedavra" and he's dead.

I dunno. One would think it would really be magic unless the practioner believed in it themselves. Otherwise it's just sleight of hand. Like, Superman can probably kick David Copperfield's ass.

(Do you think there's a David Copperfield in the DCU? I feel bad for the traditionally talented magician in that universe. Zatanna has actual magic powers. Like, it's so on the nose it's almost obnoxious. It's like Batman running a Gotham Caverns attraction or Green Arrow setting up a rennfaire. But you know, forget the fact that David Blaine can't compete, and just sit there and imagine Jesus Christ returning from Heaven and performing a few free miracles, and then setting up an "illusionist" show and charging you $5 a head for it instead of doing useful shit like materializing happiness by speaking its name backwards. You don't have to imagine it. You could read the last hundred, terrible pages of Stranger in a Strange Land. And it was just as boring and off-putting there as when Zatanna with her God Mode Sue powers gets up on stage. But at least Valentine had a master plan. At least in The Prestige it's implied that Hugh Jackman is an asshole for using the most amazing invention of all time to pull pennies out the pockets of punters. At least Zatara had the decency to get immolated by the Nothing. Zatanna: terrible person (but nice gams).)

P.S.Man, I hate that song. But I like the Flash villain. That's a conundrum.

I think maybe the David Copperfield of the DCU was maybe Zatanna's dad...although in the 52 Verse Bruce claimed Zee is "unstable" in Justice League Dark. I kind of think that implies her skills aren't as refined as they were in the regular DCU.

Actually, in the DCU, David Copperfield probably has actual magic powers. Think about it: David Copperfield grows up, and he's like, "I'm going to be a stage magician." But like you said, in the DCU, stage magician, like you said, means Zatara. A genie in human form.

So the path from neophyte to prominent entertainment leads through the shadowy zones, full of dark magic and ancient enemies as you fight to possess objects of power in the ruins of ancient [insert vanished culture] temples.

And once he gets there, he probably wonders why he's a guest spotting on Letterman when he could be fighting Starro. Then he realizes the Justice League does not receive a salary, let alone Claudia Schiffer.

I think maybe the David Copperfield of the DCU was maybe Zatanna's dad...although in the 52 Verse Bruce claimed Zee is "unstable" in Justice League Dark. I kind of think that implies her skills aren't as refined as they were in the regular DCU.

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That's still in my too read pile.

But... They probably dated, so Bruce saying she's unstable has more to do with a four hour argument about leaving the toilet seat up rather than that she's on the verge of becoming evil.