Originally Posted by loraxc
I just really want to thank everyone on this thread again. I had been feeling SO isolated and SO alone with my shame, and just knowing that other people struggle with this has meant the world to me. I have really been doing better with DD the past few days (even today when she boycotted nap completely--ugh!) and I have to give credit to the support here. It is sorta like AA, I guess.

Mamas, we are not alone. We are trying.

Yes we are and I am even more impressed and grateful that I read this entire thread and NOT ONE mama did any judging or flaming. (I really expected to see some of that.)

I'm afraid to talk about this to my RL friends because I just always thought nobody else could possibly understand these feelings or , better yet even *have* these feelings! Which, of course, just made me feel worse about my mothering capabilities.

I've realized some of my triggers since reading this thread:
My pride gets in the way of almost everything and it makes me sooooo angry to even admit to myself that I might need help or that I can't do IT ALL.

I'm also somewhat resentful because dh and I do not have any time w/each other at all anymore. I feel like I don't even have a marriage anymore. (He's a wonderful dh and father, but we just don't have any TIME.) Dh reminded me that it's because we are AP parents. We do what's best for dds right now - - not what's best for us. Dh co-sleeps w/dd1 (transitioning into her own room) and I co-sleep w/dd2. AFter baths, our individual bedtime routines begin and then, well .. . the day is over and it starts again. And again, and again, and again. If I start thinking about this and projecting about our lack of communication etc.... I start to get really angry. I could go on forever about my thought process once I *go there*. :

It's all selfish. Another thing I've come to realize lately is that I have been totally neglecting dd2. DD1 and I were always so *connected*. We still are. I remember just gazing at her for hours on end and felt that I could do that for the rest of my life.

When dd2 came along it became survival. I had no stars in my eyes. It was reality. She's been pushed aside because when she was born her VERY high needs and demanding sister was only 17 months old. Since then, it's been all about my oldest daughter. I didn't intend for it to be this way. I guess it started because I was so intensely worried about dd1's feelings about the new baby, etc...

It's only now that I'm realizing that I have .. . OMG! . . . another toddler running around the house with her own thoughts, feelings and needs. I haven't been giving her the respect she deserves as her own little person.

I'm trying to connect with dd2 more. I mean really, really connect so that she FEELS the love. I think it's getting better.

Another thing I'm trying to do during the day to help is NOT to sit down at the computer. The girls inevitably climb all over me while I'm here and then one of them gets hurt and I get .

Sorry this got so long! I'm just really excited to have other mamas to *talk* to about it. :thank you

i've actually been surprised how many folks DO relate IRL. it's scary making that first step, but i forced myself to do it within my smaller, RL mom's group (also online but i've actually met bunches of them). i had SO much shame built up, feeling like i was the only AP mom on the planet who could act so horribly towards her beloved child. once i opened up, their support was amazing, and so were their own stories.

it is sorta like AA. as i mentioned, i've been feeling pretty "even keel" with ds since i started working, but that anger is always below the surface. i know i have to be vigilant because it can bubble up again at any time, probably when i least expect it. checking in here and reading all your triumphs (and troubles) definitely helps ground me.

I'm only 3 pages into this thread and I just wanted to tell you all that I'll be able to sleep tonight for the first time in days because of the comfort I've found here.

I've got that toddler/baby combination that so many others of you are dealing with and it is HARD.

Today I tried to go to the bathroom by myeslf (sometimes I just have a need to poo alone!!!) and by the time I got out of there, DD had dumped an entire bag of my junk food potato chips all over the carpet and pulled half the hair off a cat. I yelled. I was able not to spank her but I just wanted to pummel her. And she is such a wonderous little person.

All I wanted was a few minutes to poo for crying out loud! It's not like I was getting a massage or a pedicure in there.

I have so much to think about because of this thread. Thank you all so much for being here.

secular classical-ish mama to an incredible 5 year old DS and an amazing 6 year old DD.

i've actually been surprised how many folks DO relate IRL. it's scary making that first step, but i forced myself to do it within my smaller, RL mom's group (also online but i've actually met bunches of them). i had SO much shame built up, feeling like i was the only AP mom on the planet who could act so horribly towards her beloved child. once i opened up, their support was amazing, and so were their own stories.

gosh, that would be great... so far all i've gotten (irl, except from one exceptional friend)... is "why does anyone become a mom... how can you handle 3?!" you know, just complaining... which really bums me because, despite my raging emotions and anger and guilt I really love being a mom. I love my time with my children. I enjoy watching them grow. I think... ... I am a pretty good mama. : hint.. hint.. affirm your good points on a regular basis. say you are what you strive to be.
oh, and Jennifer3141, i could not count the number of tantrums i have had and dealt with through the bathroom door. it is the twilight zone in there... i go in for 3 seconds alone on the toilet for heaven's sake and all my children are crying at the door like I've embarked on a lone journey to the north pole... what is with that, really? seriously, these are secure kids... but i go to the bathroom and they become weeping piles of sadness... i don't even try anymore. the door is open, but if anybody complains about the smell... out! one time i had my middle boy (he was about 18 months at time) come up to the toilet, stick his little face down around the back while i was reaching for the toilet paper and declare, "eewww, mama, you pooped," and he went off singing, "...mama pooped, mama pooped..."!!!!
okay, resume thread now, sorry for interuption.

so...
after weeks and weeks of a great, anger-free relationship with my daughter, i lost my temper today.
ever since it happened, even though i've regained my composure at this point, i feel like i'm under a dark cloud. : i feel nauseated and really horrible.
we were in the car, she was sleeping. when she woke up, it was clear that she didn't want to be in her car seat for very long. so i headed in the direction of the house. i got lost. really, really lost. so instead of 10 minutes, she was stuck in her seat for like 45 minutes. screaming.
I did stop the car a few times and take her out of her seat to nurse, to comfort her, etc... but I still lost my temper when I couldn't comfort her. While I was making a thousand U-turns, trying desperately to get her home and out of her car seat (and by this time, wet diaper), I was also angry. And when I get really angry and can't control it, I have to let it out somehow. So I hit my hand on the steering wheel really hard, bursting a blood vessel in my hand. I cried. I screamed. I acted out like a small child.
I am the mom! All my daughter needed was to be comforted and to know that I heard her cry and that her needs would be met as soon as possible. And since I couldn't control the situation (control issues = rage issues for me) I got angry.
I had to call my huband to get directions home, since I was so angry I couldn't read the map in the car clearly.

*sigh*

My DH is hoping to help me find a way to get to the root of my anger. He is hoping to reduce my stress levels by providing enough for me to not have to work outside the home. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. And on the whole, I am hopeful. But today, that light looked so far away....

Awww Jaymi,
Don't beat yourself up. I know exactly how you feel though and isn't it so easy to say to someone else but soooo difficult to put into practice! What's done is done. Now you just keep on going trying to do better.

I started Tae Kwon Do 2 weeks ago and just being able to know that I can go out 2 nights a week (even if it is only for 45 minutes) really, really helps keep things in perspective. It's not just the getting out that does it for me, it's the total concentration that I have to give while I'm there. NOT ONCE do I think about what a shi**y mom I am or what an awful day I had. I'm finding it really really great for my spirit.

I get crazy if I see no light at the end of the tunnel too. Isn't that how our days seem sometimes?

Maybe you can find something for yourself to look forward to during the week like that?

I have been reading this thread for the last few days and still am not done. Wow. I am literally crying right now. I feel like the worse mom in the world. The worse wife. I am miserable. I am uber overweight but yet I can't stop shoving food in my mouth. I feel like a bloody hyprocrite. I love my kids more than anything but a lot of the time I think they would really be better off without me. I feel rage, regret, and resent for my family. I absolutely feel undeserving of my kids and DH's love. That's the way I feel quite a lot of the time. The other time I feel adoring and unconditional love for them......that is until something sets off my crazy ass rage monster in my body and I lose it.

I abslolutely can not go on like this anymore. I have no idea how my DH can live with me. He is the most chill man alive! I think his "la-dee-da" approach to life is definatley the most healthy but is drives me bloody bonkers!! I want to stop my short circuits and be able to deal with life stressors in the correct way.

I am so utterly happy I am not alone in this shitty raging mama stuff. Well, actually I wish I were because no one deserves to feel this much shame of their own secret behavior. What do we do now?

There are three things I learned about life. It goes on. -Longfellow

RIP DH DJ Delicious but mucho gracias for our children and all I have learned

And when I get really angry and can't control it, I have to let it out somehow. So I hit my hand on the steering wheel really hard, bursting a blood vessel in my hand. I cried. I screamed. I acted out like a small child.
I am the mom!

I was really afraid to admit this, but I have the same problem. I would never, EVER EVER (let me emphasize)! hurt anyone else but myself. I have been a self-mutilator since I was 9 years old, and have battled it for a long long time. It got better until my husband and I started having problems, my rage started bubbling to the surface again, and I had no way of coping but to hurt myself. I have punched myself so hard in the arm it left a bruise that made people wonder if it was my husband beating me I'm trying, with some success, to be a little more zen about everything, which helps, but I still wish I had never in my left felt that sickening, nauseating energy in my extremities that makes me just want to do something EXPLOSIVE to release it. When I was younger and trying to deal with it, I would throw glass bottles at the ground as hard as I could, or sprint until I collapsed. Now that those things aren't a readily available option, I resort to my last line of defense, pummelling myself

Bach flower remedies have saved my sanity many times since our son was born. They are safe, all natural and available at most any natural market store. They cost about $10 a bottle and will last about forever. I just use them on an emergency type (about to lose it or just lost it) basis. Or, if I *know* I am not in a patient place for dealing with the stress of our young son.

Please consider trying whichever ones fit your own stress triggers/reactions. I swear by them!! Counselling has helped me to identify, predict and choose alternative reactions for some of my hot buttons, mostly triggered by overwhelming childhood reactions that I learned as (essential) coping mechanisms due to emotional, physical and sexual abuse in childhood.

Bach flower remedies don't fix or cure anything but they help to remove the overwhelming urge to act on the emotional explosion.

"I feel like the worse mom in the world. The worse wife. I am miserable. I am uber overweight but yet I can't stop shoving food in my mouth. I feel like a bloody hyprocrite. I love my kids more than anything but a lot of the time I think they would really be better off without me. I feel rage, regret, and resent for my family. I absolutely feel undeserving of my kids and DH's love. That's the way I feel quite a lot of the time. The other time I feel adoring and unconditional love for them......that is until something sets off my crazy ass rage monster in my body and I lose it." (abby)

* holy smokes. i have been here SO many times, mama, on my crazy bipolar rollercoaster. have you tried a little therapy? or at the very least, keep posting here so you can let it all out. wow, that part about being chubby and cramming the food really hits home... : wish i had more "words o' wisdom" for you, but half the time i can't figure out my own life. i just want you to know you're not alone.

* wise scubamama, do you know whether the bach remedies work the same as regular homeopathy, in that they're counteracted by mint, coffee, et cetera? i almost bought the rescue th' other day, but the ingredients were written similarly to homeo (with the 2x, 10x stuff), so i held off.

* wise scubamama, do you know whether the bach remedies work the same as regular homeopathy, in that they're counteracted by mint, coffee, et cetera? i almost bought the rescue th' other day, but the ingredients were written similarly to homeo (with the 2x, 10x stuff), so i held off.

Acute homeopathy addresses a current problem, unlike classical homeopathy which addresses underlying characteristics/issues. My understanding (and according to the Bach Flower site) is that coffee doesn't interfere with the Bach Flower remedies in the same way as with classical homeopathy. However, during acute use of a remedy, say within the 15-30 minutes before and afterwards, I would avoid mint, coffee or eculyptus for most effectiveness.

*Caspian's Mama~ I have been to therapy before and I should go back. I should. And I absolutely would if it wasn't so bloody expensive. The only "price reduced" therapy in my area is offered by the Catholic Church. No way jose am I going there! I have been on prozac before (mostly because of terrible PPD after #2) and while I found medication helpful, at the time, it is something I will not take for the rest of my life. I admit I like to go out and drink cocktails with my friends on occasion (or at home : ) and alcohol with a chaser of prozac is a bad, bad thing.:

I have struggled with depression, rage, and self loathing for seriously as long as I can remember.....we're talking young childhood. This "problem" is definately something that I have been living with for a long, long time. I am now getting in-tune with my "triggers".............I can feel my blood start to boil when the house is trashed, the kids are screaming and whining, the dog is under foot, my DH is reading the bloody Rolling Stone on the couch, and I'm washing the dishes...hmmmmm. So basically when I'm all 'martyred' out I lose my sh*t. I remember asking my mother is I should nail her up on a cross one time after she started screaming and raving about how much she does for us, etc, and how little we do.....hmmmm.

There are three things I learned about life. It goes on. -Longfellow

RIP DH DJ Delicious but mucho gracias for our children and all I have learned

Originally Posted by abbylotus
So basically when I'm all 'martyred' out I lose my sh*t. I remember asking my mother is I should nail her up on a cross one time after she started screaming and raving about how much she does for us, etc, and how little we do.....hmmmm.

That is totally ME!!!!! I am SUCH a martyr. FUnny thing is when I'm doing it I realize that's what I'm doing but sometimes it just feels so gooooood yk?.

anger is not necessarily a bad thing... it is what you do with it that matters.
ok... that sounds really judgemental and i so so so am not being judgemental, as all of you know i have anger and rage issues as well. i one time punched my dd's math book so hard i bent my gold ring. i kept it that way, bent, tight and awkwardly fitting, for many many years as a reminder of what inappropriate behavior can push us to, or me to.
to the woman who started taking tae kwon do a few weeks ago... keep up the good work!! i started taking tkd 9 years ago when my now almost 10 year old dd was 1. it looked like fun and good excercise and i would learn a little bit of self defense in the mean time. well i should be testing for my black belt in the fall. so what started out as a night or two out and some exercise has really turned into a fun thing and quite an accomplishment.
lastly... i few weeks (?) ago i mentioned about going to counseling. i got a lot of encouragement here to go and to do it. i finally called and i have an appointment on monday. i am nervous but i also know it is the right thing. not only to deal with rage and anger, but also to deal with the crappiness that is going on in my marriage and my life right now. so thanks for the encouragement.
i have some catching up to do on this thread, but wanted to say "hey" to everyone!!
peace
michele

Just wanted to add my thanks for this thread - I'm glad I'm not the awful, horrid "only mum who could ever feel this way about her child" that I've been thinking I am. I never felt like I could mention the pure rage I've felt to anyone, let alone other mothers. I'm still trying to read all of the posts in this thread, but had to pause and say thanks to everyone for the comfort in knowing I'm not alone in my feelings. (plus, I've been trying to keep this thread in mind when I start to lose it - and some of the "this has helped me" stuff has been helpful for me too!)

I started to read this thread, and then realized just how long it was. Holy crap. I look forward to reading more tommorrow though.

Yesterday I had a really really really bad day with DS. I am so ashamed of myself and how I reacted to a particular situation that I actually got out of bed to throw up last night because I couldn't stop thinking about it and it made me sick to my stomach. DH coddled me back to sleep when I got out of the bathroom. I've cried so much in the last 24 hours, it's exhausted me. I really needed to find this thread today.

Hi mamas,
I'm ashamed that I need to post here again and was actually considering not reading this thread anymore with the thought, "out of sight out of mind" or something like that. THinking if I don't read about it, I won't have a problem. .. How's that for denial?

I just lost it w/dd1 again. She can really push my buttons as I"m sure all 2 1/2 year olds do.

She WILL NOT be quiet and let me try to get dd2 to sleep. DD2 has sleep issues and she needs all the rest she can get. AFter several attempts this afteroon to get dd2 to sleep asking dd1 to be quiet, play quietly in the play room, snuggle under the blanket on the sofa, watch t.v., have some snacks, some juice ,etc. etc.(all my usual things I offer), she WOULD NOT listen.

Finally, I got dd2 to lay down in her crib and I was rubbing her back and she was getting heavy eyed. (A miracle! She usually only falls asleep while nursing!)

I shusshed dd1 whispered to her to go out in the living room or play room. I told her I"d be right out (like I always do.) Today, she had other plans. Instead of listening to me she decided to climb under the crib and laugh trying to wake up her sister.

After several times of my asking nicely I told her: if she didn't listen and go, I would carry her to her room, put her in there and close the door. She still didn't listen.

I carried her out to the living room, plopped her on the couch and well .. . yelled some. Meanwhile, dd2 is SCREAMING from her crib 'cause I left her there alone.

DD1 is immediately started screaming and asking for orange juice. I gave her some. I ran and got dd2. DD1 is still screaming more. There wasn't ENOUGH orange juice in her cup. (I mix it with water.) I opened the cup to show her, "see? there's oj in there." I had to put dd2 down to open the cup. Now dd2 is crying, sitting on the floor.

I got soooooo ANGRY that I took the sippy cup, opened it up, put it on the counter and poured ALL THE ORANGE JUICE WE HAD into the cup until it was overflowing off the counter and onto the kitchen floor. I just kept pouring and pouring and pouring. It went all over everything - even my digital camera. DD2 stood there watching me and cried.

It was an out of body experience.

Now dd2 is asleep and dd1 is playing outside the door. I'm so mad at her still I don't even want to go see what she's doing. And I have f**@*ing orange juice to mop up.

Annikate, what comes up for me when being able to observe your experience from the outside is your intense need to meet everyone's demands instantly and feeling frustrated when the needs do not STOP despite doing everything humanly possible. That feels very unsatisfying and overwhelming when *I* am the one trying to meet everyone's needs. It feels like I am FAILING. Which is a very threatening experience when viewed from my childhood perspective/reaction. It is hard for me to see the experience as an adult with the objectivity that I am doing the best that I can and to quit judging myself when others have demands BEYOND MY CONTROL, or beyond my ability to meet all of them IMMEDIATELY.

Something that has helped is to be able to PAUSE and assess the situation, instead of reacting to it. NOT easy when I am exhausted. Nor is it possible when my self-talk is saying 'you need to do x, y, z.....OR ELSE abc will happen', especially when the x, y, and z is getting ds to do what I want/need. Becoming aware and accepting that I can NOT get ds to do x, y, z instantly when I need it is beyond frustrating! And damn near impossible when I REALLY, REALLY believe that he MUST DO IT "or else abc will happen". What I have seen is that when x, y, and z DOES NOT happen, we live through it anyway (despite my self-talk/fears to the contrary).

For instance, we had about 4.5 hours of sleep and then "HAD TO" drive home from out of town. When we arrived at our destination, ds was saying "no you can't take a nap". I was ballistic! I NEEDED to sleep! But, by reacting to my INTENSE self-talk "I need to sleep! I need to sleep! I need to sleep!", I wasn't able to PAUSE and consider how else to meet ds's needs for whatever it was that he was trying to express. I exploded with "I need to sleep!" Not helpful. Ds was still not ABLE to meet my need for quiet and cooperation and self-engagement (because now he was upset and reacting to me on top of whatever his original need was). He wasn't ABLE! So, my NEED to sleep was basically irrelevant, UNTIL, I was able to help him to get his need met. So, yes, the "or else" (I needed sleep STILL) DID happen, but we lived through it AND we both were distressed because I hadn't helped him to meet his need first SO THAT I could have quiet, and cooperation in order to get my need met.

Recognizing MY catalyst or pivotal role in getting my needs met BY helping our son to get his needs met is really hard when I am trying to do it ALL, IMMEDIATELY!! The only thing that helps me is to STOP and THINK before reacting and that is so damn hard.

Originally Posted by scubamama
Annikate, what comes up for me when being able to observe your experience from the outside is your intense need to meet everyone's demands instantly and feeling frustrated when the needs do not STOP despite doing everything humanly possible. That feels very unsatisfying and overwhelming when *I* am the one trying to meet everyone's needs. It feels like I am FAILING. Which is a very threatening experience when viewed from my childhood perspective/reaction. It is hard for me to see the experience as an adult with the objectivity that I am doing the best that I can and to quit judging myself when others have demands BEYOND MY CONTROL, or beyond my ability to meet all of them IMMEDIATELY.

Yup. Pat you hit the nail on the head on this one. I've read this several times and I still need to let it sink in. Thank you. I'm going to read it again and again until I can internalize this. (Especially this part: quit judging myself when others have demands BEYOND MY CONTROL

Quote:

I was ballistic! I NEEDED to sleep! But, by reacting to my INTENSE self-talk "I need to sleep! I need to sleep! I need to sleep!",

OMG!
This is what goes through my head on a continual basis. It doesn't help that dd2 has been back to her every 2 hour waking this week. Sleep deprivation is killing me really. I'm soooo much more patient when I have some rest.

Sounds like me last night! Needing sleep but also needing to meet dd2's needs.

I notice that rage comes up more when there are two young kids. I see it tying to the above, everyone having instant needs. I also wonder if it goes along with some biological drive, like the one where we find ourselves sometimes pushing away an older nursling.

i've has a really bad week with more yelling and timeouts than I'd like.

Wow--I am on page three of this thread after running to MDC because of a terrible morning, a morning full of rage. It's only 8:30 am. I've only been up for an hour and a half. You get the idea.

The rage I feel sometimes scares me. How can a person like me, intelligent, thoughtful, compassionate and a parent by choice, not circumstance, absolutely want to throttle my kids 40% of the time?

You know what it is? I feel like they try to manipulate me. I will answer their calls for help, juice, butt-wiping, etc... but my answers are not good enough. It seems like despite my best efforts to let them know what is going on, how much time I need to finish my present task, when they'll get their (insert thing they want here), they flip out. They scream, cry, tantrum, carry on like I've just deprived them of their last meal or something.

I feel manipulated. I feel like my desire to have self-respect, a personal identity (ie not a slave to my kids), and a creative life are met with utter defiance. It doesn't matter that I can be patient until the fifth time we've gone over subject X. By the sixth time I f*ing pissed they didn't accept the answer/solution, etc...

I just don't get it. I don't expect mini adults. I'm well-versed in all the tools of AP and conflict management, positive interaction. I feel like they are these little beasties who just want to piss me off, want to push me to my limit.

The don't do it with anyone else.

I'm not inconsistant. I hold my ground on the things that matter. I set boundaries. I keep them busy, give them rest. I offer them a wide array of food choices when appropriate, limit the choices when it's best.

Annikate,
well, i am just sitting here with my jaw on the floor.
three days ago i got so p-i-s-s-e-d off at the nearly 3 year old for his incessent nagging...
i poured the entire container of oj into his cup on the kitchen counter.