(17-12-2011 08:51 PM)Chas Wrote: These are interpretations of quantum mechanics.

And I should prefer your interpretation over my colleagues' interpretations who do physics for a living why?

(17-12-2011 08:51 PM)Chas Wrote: Door number three is the "don't interpret - shut up and calculate" position.

Yup, "pussy" is always the penultimate fallback position. GirlyMan can tell you a thing or two about "pussiness", kinda like where I live w/o pharmaceutical support.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.

(16-12-2011 02:53 PM)GirlyMan Wrote: It's not saying that reality is in our minds, more like consciousness collapses probability waves by virtue of observation. We make the world manifest when we look at it.

And what was the universe doing before we came along to make it manifest?

Just askin'.

Thats a very interesting question. "Before" and "after" may be limitations relevant to our present understandings of where we find ourselves.

Re observation,,,,very helpful, and I'm not anti science by any means.
That said ,despite all the acolades re scientific fact, science, in my view is cosmically, at least, very limited, in accordance with Popper, Kuhn, Lakatos, Feyerebend's views which are often maligned.............

Here's a web site devoted to exploring the implications of Biocentrism. Note their caveat "We are NOT arguing that this theory must be true — only that it is sufficiently plausible to warrant serious consideration and testing.": biocentricity.net

(17-12-2011 08:51 PM)Chas Wrote: Door number three is the "don't interpret - shut up and calculate" position.

Yup, "pussy" is always the penultimate fallback position. GirlyMan can tell you a thing or two about "pussiness", kinda like where I live w/o pharmaceutical support.

Door number three is, far from being pussy, the "We don't know exactly" position. Adhering to either of the first two is more like KC claiming to know God's will.

"don't intepret - shut up and calculate" sounds like "I got no idea what to make of what I'm doing but I'll just keep doing it anyway without worrying about what to make of it." Sounds pussy to me. I guess "intentional naivety" is less perjorative but it means the same.

(17-12-2011 08:51 PM)Chas Wrote: And as for 'penultimate', I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Sure I do. It's the next to last position a pussy takes. The ultimate position is curling up into a fetal position in the corner.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.

Here's a web site devoted to exploring the implications of Biocentrism. Note their caveat "We are NOT arguing that this theory must be true — only that it is sufficiently plausible to warrant serious consideration and testing.": biocentricity.net

(17-12-2011 08:51 PM)Chas Wrote: Door number three is the "don't interpret - shut up and calculate" position.

Yup, "pussy" is always the penultimate fallback position. GirlyMan can tell you a thing or two about "pussiness", kinda like where I live w/o pharmaceutical support.

Door number three is, far from being pussy, the "We don't know exactly" position. Adhering to either of the first two is more like KC claiming to know God's will.

"don't intepret - shut up and calculate" sounds like "I got no idea what to make of what I'm doing but I'll just keep doing it anyway without worrying about what to make of it." Sounds pussy to me. I guess "intentional naivety" is less perjorative but it means the same.

(17-12-2011 08:51 PM)Chas Wrote: And as for 'penultimate', I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Sure I do. It's the next to last position a pussy takes. The ultimate position is curling up into a fetal position in the corner.

If I thought you were serious, I would say you are just being an asshole; but of course you're not being serious.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.

Just trying to bring the thread back on track by adding some references other than Wikipedia to the discourse.

(18-12-2011 08:31 AM)Chas Wrote: If I thought you were serious, I would say you are just being an asshole; but of course you're not being serious.

You would be wrong to presume that I am not an asshole. I've only met a few assholes bigger than me. The only difference between them and me is that they don't realize they are assholes while I do. Gives me the opportunity to restrain, control, and aim it. Obviously with varying degrees of success. ... I mean, shit happens.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.

Just trying to bring the thread back on track by adding some references other than Wikipedia to the discourse.

My bad, I completely lost track of the thread.

Quote:

(18-12-2011 08:31 AM)Chas Wrote: If I thought you were serious, I would say you are just being an asshole; but of course you're not being serious.

You would be wrong to presume that I am not an asshole. I've only met a few assholes bigger than me. The only difference between them and me is that they don't realize they are assholes while I do. Gives me the opportunity to restrain, control, and aim it. Obviously with varying degrees of success. ... I mean, shit happens.

I don't think this needs a response.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.