I would like Oracle to exclude sneaking in toolbars as parts of Java updates in the future. However I bet these companies are paying you money for each install so I guess that's not likely to happen, is it?

What's the best method to keep Java installed and updated, silently without any extra toolbars (today it's ask.com, tomorrow it could be google or bing... who knows).

Basically Oracle is generating ill-will by including this as a default selected option.

If it were included as an option and left up to the user to select, then I would not now be telling people to un-install rather than update Java. For most average users Java is not essential combined that with the need for constant security updates which require UAC approval AND then have adware built in, makes the value proposition very low.

As a person who 'manages' a peer-to-peer network for a non-profit this practice is very lame, please stop.

I've only been here one day and it's pretty clear that this is a pretty hostile forum - looks like you're finding that out too. If you mention any kind of dislike of Oracle or question their methods, be prepared to be slapped. Evidently this is the one forum online where one is not allowed to vent even a little bit about the company in question. Usually the moderators are employed to protect the users from other hostile users. But here it seems the moderators are mostly trying to protect Oracle.

As to your original question that nobody else seemed to care about.

I use Ninite pro (ninite.com). They understand our plight as admins and their update process is pretty slick. It can disable auto-update processes, suppress desktop icons, as well as skip needless trashy marketing add-ons. They cover not only Java (6 & 7), but also Flash, Acrobat Reader - and a ton of those other annoying constantly insecure and having to be patched little programs. And as a bonus, you can mange all the updates across your entire network from a central place. It can send the updates out across the network for a remote install. Plus, it's both GUI and command line so you can script it if you need to.

Good luck. We can all hope that one day these companies will stop doing things that annoy us, but until pigs fly we'll have to rely on third party utilities like ninite to get around their poor choices.

And for the record, in case anyone goes down the money road, I and almost every other admin out there would gladly pay a few bucks per user for an enterprise license that gave us a CLEAN installer and more control over the update process. We'd pay you more money than a toolbar tie-in ever could. But nobody asked us.

archaic0 wrote:
I've only been here one day and it's pretty clear that this is a pretty hostile forum

People claiming hostility tend to be the ones going on the attack. Just think about the hidden offense in your words there.

We can all hope that one day these companies will stop doing things that annoy us, but until pigs fly we'll have to rely on third party utilities like ninite to get around their poor choices.

As you realize yourself - its all about money dude. Stop confusing good or bad will with it, corporations don't work on that basis. The regulars of this forum, which includes a large chunk of the moderators, have learned that lesson long ago and can't be bothered by it anymore (I hope, I don't want to speak for others). Java is part of a business policy, it needs to generate revenue in one way or another. This is just one tiny little way of doing it, how unprofessional and idiotic it might be. I don't like it, but I understand it.

If you want to take my observation as an attack then I can't help that. But so far I've read about 10 posts that were either locked by a moderator after a HINT of oracle venting or if not a moderator then other users just tearing someone down because they lamented oracle's choices. That's pretty hostile by even the most liberal definition.

One thread opened with a legit question. It had 22 replies, 6 or so which were pretty helpful. Among those 22, there were 5 people who casually mentioned wishing Oracle would do things better and 2 people who vented directly at oracle (me being one of those). Then a moderator locked the thread despite all the help that had been given and the progressive discussion that was happening. All because a few people voiced some annoyance towards oracle. Somehow he thought we were expecting to be talking TO oracle (or so he said) but it was quite obvious that none of us expected that. It was pure venting. And not even real venting with cursing or shouting either.

And THIS thread, right there above. The guy asks a legit question and gets nothing but attacks without a single suggestion from anyone. Just an attack of his (quite common) belief that oracle shouldn't be bundling. Which is why I gave a real suggestion.

Corporations work on money. Got it. So ask me for money. I'm DYING to hand them some money but they've never asked. Instead they just went straight to the unprofessional and annoying bundling step. I'm not sure how someone like yourself who admits that it's unprofessional and idiotic can be against expressing that thought though. It's not like a 100 reply post was spiraling into the abyss. The mere HINT of dissent against oracle and down comes the hammer.

Plenty of other admins would be like me and want to help support the product if this 'business product' could be handled like a business product. Let me buy a corp license ($5-$10 per user maybe? who knows) and that gives me an FTP to grab a CLEAN installer from as soon as an update happens. That installer does not include anything other than the core application or ANY auto update code or warning messages - at least not that show up for anyone other than a domain admin. Then tie an email alert to that FTP and anytime there is a new file published let me know. Tada, now we're running things like a business and not like a youtube star trying to grab some quick cash on the side.

Sure plenty of people would balk at paying a dime for something like this (because they don't understand the value of anything), so then let them keep dealing with the auto-update nags and the add-ons if they want everything for free. Then the rest of us who take our jobs seriously can help build a better product.