i'd actually like to hear some strong defense of MAF at this point. i had his back after the flyer series, but at this point he is NOT getting it done in the playoffs and hasnt for 4 years now. different circumstances each time, but the results speak for themselves. i realize its not all his fault, but when is it ever ALL the goalies fault. he is not playing up to where he needs to for this team to win in the playoffs. and hasnt since 2009.

shafnutz05 wrote:Do I think Vokoun is THAT much better? No. But this pathetic bunch of sissynannies needs a fire lit under their silver spoon posteriors.

The problem isn't so much that Fleury gave up 2 soft goals tonight, it's that he gave up 2 soft goals on top of 4 goals that he had no chance on. Take away Fleury's gaffs, and you still gave up 4 goals.

shafnutz05 wrote:Do I think Vokoun is THAT much better? No. But this pathetic bunch of sissynannies needs a fire lit under their silver spoon posteriors.

The problem isn't so much that Fleury gave up 2 soft goals tonight, it's that he gave up 2 soft goals on top of 4 goals that he had no chance on. Take away Fleury's gaffs, and you still gave up 4 goals.

Not sure what he was doing on the second goal either to be honest. He got handcuffed and seemed to lose the flight of the puck even before the deflection. On the Strait goal I didn't see a good replay but he looked screened (or at least I hope, because it seemed to be a weak wrist shot from the blue line). The Murray goal is obviously not his fault, and on Tavares' goal, that's just 91 being himself.

PPenguinsFan66 wrote:Might try Vokoun out. Pens have been ass for the last few games. Need to do something to try and spark them. Fleury hasn't helped matters by any stretch.

I'm sticking with what I said before tonight's game: if Fleury struggles (he did), you go with Vokoun in game 5 then you go back to Fleury in game 6 regardless of the outcome. Send a message, but give him a chance to redeem himself.

shafnutz05 wrote:Do I think Vokoun is THAT much better? No. But this pathetic bunch of sissynannies needs a fire lit under their silver spoon posteriors.

The problem isn't so much that Fleury gave up 2 soft goals tonight, it's that he gave up 2 soft goals on top of 4 goals that he had no chance on. Take away Fleury's gaffs, and you still gave up 4 goals.

Not sure what he was doing on the second goal either to be honest. He got handcuffed and seemed to lose the flight of the puck even before the deflection. On the Strait goal I didn't see a good replay but he looked screened (or at least I hope, because it seemed to be a weak wrist shot from the blue line). The Murray goal is obviously not his fault, and on Tavares' goal, that's just 91 being himself.

On the Strait goal he was screen by 4 players (2 Pens + 2 Islanders).

The second goal was a combination of two things: Tavares deflected the puck a few feet above the crease, and Fleury tripped over Orpik's foot. I thought Fleury just stumbled until TSN highlighted it in a replay.

PPenguinsFan66 wrote:Might try Vokoun out. Pens have been ass for the last few games. Need to do something to try and spark them. Fleury hasn't helped matters by any stretch.

I'm sticking with what I said before tonight's game: if Fleury struggles (he did), you go with Vokoun in game 5 then you go back to Fleury in game 6 regardless of the outcome. Send a message, but give him a chance to redeem himself.

I said that before Game 3 - if DB went with Vokoun in Game 3, MAF would come back and play lights out in Game 4 (unfortunately, DB didn't take my advice). But at this point, if Vokoun plays in Game 5 and wins, I don't think you can go back to MAF in Game 6 - there's just too much at stake.

PPenguinsFan66 wrote:Might try Vokoun out. Pens have been ass for the last few games. Need to do something to try and spark them. Fleury hasn't helped matters by any stretch.

I'm sticking with what I said before tonight's game: if Fleury struggles (he did), you go with Vokoun in game 5 then you go back to Fleury in game 6 regardless of the outcome. Send a message, but give him a chance to redeem himself.

I said that before Game 3 - if DB went with Vokoun in Game 3, MAF would come back and play lights out in Game 4 (unfortunately, DB didn't take my advice). But at this point, if Vokoun plays in Game 5 and wins, I don't think you can go back to MAF in Game 6 - there's just too much at stake.

If Vokoun plays Game 5 and wins, then you're up 3-2 and you can give Fleury a shot at redemption without being in a critical (elimination) game. Worst case scenario, you go back to Vokoun for Game 7.

If Vokoun plays Game 5 and loses, then you're down 3-2 and you're grasping at straws regardless.

shafnutz05 wrote:Do I think Vokoun is THAT much better? No. But this pathetic bunch of sissynannies needs a fire lit under their silver spoon posteriors.

The problem isn't so much that Fleury gave up 2 soft goals tonight, it's that he gave up 2 soft goals on top of 4 goals that he had no chance on. Take away Fleury's gaffs, and you still gave up 4 goals.

Not sure what he was doing on the second goal either to be honest. He got handcuffed and seemed to lose the flight of the puck even before the deflection. On the Strait goal I didn't see a good replay but he looked screened (or at least I hope, because it seemed to be a weak wrist shot from the blue line). The Murray goal is obviously not his fault, and on Tavares' goal, that's just 91 being himself.

On the Strait goal he was screen by 4 players (2 Pens + 2 Islanders).

The second goal was a combination of two things: Tavares deflected the puck a few feet above the crease, and Fleury tripped over Orpik's foot. I thought Fleury just stumbled until TSN highlighted it in a replay.

Thanks. I couldn't tell what happened, and like you, thought he fell over because he was just fooled.

PPenguinsFan66 wrote:Might try Vokoun out. Pens have been ass for the last few games. Need to do something to try and spark them. Fleury hasn't helped matters by any stretch.

I'm sticking with what I said before tonight's game: if Fleury struggles (he did), you go with Vokoun in game 5 then you go back to Fleury in game 6 regardless of the outcome. Send a message, but give him a chance to redeem himself.

I said that before Game 3 - if DB went with Vokoun in Game 3, MAF would come back and play lights out in Game 4 (unfortunately, DB didn't take my advice). But at this point, if Vokoun plays in Game 5 and wins, I don't think you can go back to MAF in Game 6 - there's just too much at stake.

If Vokoun plays Game 5 and wins, then you're up 3-2 and you can give Fleury a shot at redemption without being in a critical (elimination) game. Worst case scenario, you go back to Vokoun for Game 7.

If Vokoun plays Game 5 and loses, then you're down 3-2 and you're grasping at straws regardless.

There's no way you go back to Fleury in game 6 if Vokoun is in net for a game 5 win, absent it being a 6-5 type shootout where neither goalie distinguishes themselves.

taz71 wrote:i love fleury but he loses concentration. Okposo's goal made me so ticked off. stick was down but not on the ice because it was touching the net and near post was not protected.

Mike Peca hit the nail on the head. When the puck is in front of him, Fleury is calm, cool, completely focused, and as hard to beat as any goalie in the league. As soon as it gets within a few feet of the goal line, or behind the goal line, it's like Fleury just loses all awareness of his surroundings. It doesn't seem like something that could be attributed to a mental mistake, so is it possibly a vision problem?