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(Reuters) - The employment grew faster than expected in November, but a drop in the jobless rate to a near-four year low as people gave up the search for work suggested the labor market was still tepid.

Nonfarm employment increased by 146,000 jobs last month, the Labor Department said on Friday, defying expectations of a sharp pull back related to superstorm Sandy.

BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

Re: Employment growth quickens, jobless rate at 7.7 percent

Obama hasn't got the higher tax rates he's seeking yet...when tax rates go up,yet unemployment goes down, then you on the left can squawk til your heart's content about how Obama has it right. No one serious however believes we've turned the tide on unemployment....take that as you will. People have given up as jackaroe notes which helps with making the rate look better than it really is...and a lot of jobs gained aren't of the kind that will help the revenue base much.

Re: Employment growth quickens, jobless rate at 7.7 percent

Could do better, and deficit cuts won't help.

On the whole, the data in the November report show pretty much the same picture as what we have been seeing over the last six months. The economy is creating jobs at a rate that is a bit faster than what is needed to keep pace with the growth of the labor market. At the current pace, we would not see the economy returning to full employment for another decade. Furthermore, there are more downside risks than upside -- for example, if there were to be severe deficit reduction as a result of the current negotiations between President Obama and Congress.

Re: Employment growth quickens, jobless rate at 7.7 percent

Higher tax rates will in NO way affect job growth. I expect the GOPpers to be back in threads this time next year insisting they be forgiven for being so completely wrong headed.

It is sad that so many are leaving the workforce. and 7.7% from 7.9% is nothing to cheer about. Perhaps after we get congress working in a direction again... against republicans desires to hold the country back ... then perhaps we will actually see some growth unlike the decimation of wealth and employment that was ushered in by republicans and their faulty thinking.

Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.~ Martin Luther King, Jr.

Re: Employment growth quickens, jobless rate at 7.7 percent

These numbers have a huge asterisk attached to them that says 'almost entirely due to holiday hiring that is temporary'. Retailers hire a large number of temp workers for holiday, positions that are ended at the beginning of January.

Re: Employment growth quickens, jobless rate at 7.7 percent

Higher tax rates will in NO way affect job growth. I expect the GOPpers to be back in threads this time next year insisting they be forgiven for being so completely wrong headed.

It is sad that so many are leaving the workforce. and 7.7% from 7.9% is nothing to cheer about. Perhaps after we get congress working in a direction again... against republicans desires to hold the country back ... then perhaps we will actually see some growth unlike the decimation of wealth and employment that was ushered in by republicans and their faulty thinking.

Actually the rates Obama wants are expected to affect job growth by 2% -- which means that a 5% growth in jobs would only be 4.9%. , so instead of 5,000 jobs being generated, 4,900 would be.

OTOH, if some of the new revenue goes to infrastructure while the rest goes to cut the deficit, it should come out about even.

"Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

Re: Employment growth quickens, jobless rate at 7.7 percent

Originally Posted by JB3

These numbers have a huge asterisk attached to them that says 'almost entirely due to holiday hiring that is temporary'. Retailers hire a large number of temp workers for holiday, positions that are ended at the beginning of January.

This is true, so it's hard to tell how much of this is recovery and how much is seasonal.

Keep your fingers crossed.

Though if the Republicans would grow up and pass the small-business legislation Obama wanted, January would see real change, probably down to 7.%5% -- with more steady change over a year.

Last edited by Kulindahr; December 7th, 2012 at 09:10 PM.

"Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

Re: Employment growth quickens, jobless rate at 7.7 percent

I was watching Morning Joe and they showed it breaking. I tried to find a "reliable" source and Reuters came up. Cnn didn't have anything and MSNBC was Morning Joe. What can I say. I'm starting to like Morning Joe.

BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

Re: Employment growth quickens, jobless rate at 7.7 percent

Previous month increases have now been downgraded. The economy is still in a stagnant growth phase where we won't return to pre-recession levels until 2 1/2 years from now. The economy needs a stimulus and for Congress to act.

Re: Employment growth quickens, jobless rate at 7.7 percent

The reason why the Clinton era tax rates worked was because of the organic market driven stimulus of the dot com boom. That was then...this is a post bust economy...busted tech, busted real estate, busted finance, etc. Corporate interests have squeezed as much blood from the turnip from 'productivity' increases. Now the only hope is more government stim, with borrowed money we cant afford, or keep our fingers crossed that there is a next Big Thing on the horizon that will emerge from the private sector. So the options boil down to hock or hope. No bueno.

The only possible Big Thing (baring some positive Black Swan event) is a boom in shale extraction and natural gas production and exports. The downside of course is its essentially taking a huge dump on the environment. So pick your poison. I sure wouldnt want B.O.'s job right now.

Re: Employment growth quickens, jobless rate at 7.7 percent

Previous month increases have now been downgraded. The economy is still in a stagnant growth phase where we won't return to pre-recession levels until 2 1/2 years from now. The economy needs a stimulus and for Congress to act.

Make it a real stimulus this time, please. The part that went to infrastructure last time was a big help, but refurbishing government offices didn't. It may be something that will pay off in the long term, but it doesn't boost the economy.

Let's fix roads, rail, and other transportation needs for now, so people and products can get around.

"Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

Re: Employment growth quickens, jobless rate at 7.7 percent

So am I correct that two studies have now been cited, one saying recovery will take 10 years and one saying 2 1/2 to get back to pre-recession levels?

That's a pretty big swing.

I think it comes from the fact that we're in unknown territory, having spent billions bailing out the wrong part of the economy, which gave a false impression of vitality where there is little.

"Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

Re: Employment growth quickens, jobless rate at 7.7 percent

^ The 2009 Stimulus did work though. Remember, our economy was in free fall. We would be in a depression right now if not for the first term of the Obama presidency.

The problem is that a large percentage of the stimulus was Republican negotiated tax cuts, and that yes, more infrastructure could be invested into. An additional stimulus is needed that focuses on the areas you've mentioned above.

Interesting -- the U6 figure is just a touch below what the county commissioners here say is our real unemployment rate.

"Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

Re: Employment growth quickens, jobless rate at 7.7 percent

Originally Posted by palbert

So there's enough lee-way for everyone to be right....

Mmm.... sorta kinda maybe not.

I'm under the impression that the Republicans believe Obama's doing a god-awful job and that someone (anyone) who would have continued the Bush economic policy would have us in a far better spot today. I see no reality-based reason to believe the Bush economic policy continued even further under Romney's plan would have done anything other than carry us further in the direction it had been taking us.

Re: Employment growth quickens, jobless rate at 7.7 percent

Originally Posted by xbuzzerx

Mmm.... sorta kinda maybe not.

I'm under the impression that the Republicans believe Obama's doing a god-awful job and that someone (anyone) who would have continued the Bush economic policy would have us in a far better spot today. I see no reality-based reason to believe the Bush economic policy continued even further under Romney's plan would have done anything other than carry us further in the direction it had been taking us.

Definitely. I like to point out that the economy was better under Reagan than it is now, so we ought to go back to the Reagan tax rates, right?

But that's as simplistic as the moronic blather from the right. Grasping this actually takes research, which is probably the biggest thing JUB has done for/to me: I've spent gobs of hours trying to figure the while economic/tax thing out, starting with the Laffer curve... and learning that there are numerous variables to look at before deciding what effect tax raises or cuts should be made. It turns out that under certain conditions, tax cuts are bad for the economy, while under others they're good, and that the same is true of tax hikes. Right now what's needed is a touch of both, which would be best accomplished by letting all the Bush cuts expire and raising the individual exemption by $2k. On top of that, Friedman demonstrated that under the right conditions having a reverse income tax so that those on the bottom would get a guaranteed level of income would be best.

Of importance at the moment is that lowering tax rates for the wealthy under 1/3 rarely does anything for the economy. Claiming that tax cuts always benefit the economy is false because it's linear thinking, and what matters is the slope of the curve... and the curve is shaped by many factors.

Also of importance is that it's been pretty thoroughly established that stimulus spending has to be the sort that will make doing business easier -- Japan and China have been the two main laboratories on that one. Repairing substandard infrastructure qualifies, but may qualify less than improving infrastructure in good condition -- for example, repairing interstate bridges where traffic flows smoothly despite the fact that the bridges are due to fall down in two years will have less of a stimulus impact than adding two lanes to a two-lane highway clogged by traffic all day (though the bridge repair would have longer-term impact because if it does fall down, commerce will take a greater hit than if the road keeps just two lanes).

"Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "