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Re: Russell Queens

Originally Posted by robherc

Ummmm...[edit] yes, it's all Deoxyribonucleic Acid, all queen/worker bees have 32 chromosomes, and males have 16....BUT your post is still way off its mark. Simply put, if the codes don't match, it's different DNA...otherwise you'd be saying that all 32-page books are the same book, regardless of the words written in them!

No, I'm saying that the "DNA" is Deoxyribonucleic Acid. In any genotype and subsequent phenotype, the organism's DNA is the same substance.

The arangement of the base pairs is what makes the differences, not the DNA itself. DNA is DNA.

Re: Russell Queens

I'd like to give an update on my experience with Russell Apiaries. Got notice two queen (SK for my dad and moonbeam for me) would ship last week. Shipped on Tuesday and arrived on Saturday. I was pretty concerned about the transit time. Gave both queens drops of water on the screens which the attendants eagerly took. Did this until they didn't take any more. Made a split from my hive with frames of pollen and honey. Didn't have any brood frames because I'm in the process of switching from a deep to mediums. Didn't wait any to put the queen cage in the split, next time I will. Did the same thing on same day at my dad's place. Next day the bees still hadn't accepted the moonbeam. Waited another day and they appeared to be feeding through the screen. Hadn't touched the candy plug so I released her and all is well. Went to my dad's place and found his split nearly empty with a dead queen and attendants in the cage. Not sure what happened. I suspect that she just didn't make it after the long shipping time and the bees went back to the old hive after she died. Or maybe they left and then she died? Don't know. Both splits were made the exact same way, one made and one didn't. Anyway my dad emailed them and told them what happened. He already had one SKC coming that wasn't yet ready to ship on this order. He asked if they had any queen at all that he could buy and add to the SKC already ordered. Victoria said she would see about replacing the dead queen at no charge. This impressed me because we didn't blame them or expect anything. I can't even say they did the right thing because that would be suggesting doing nothing was the wrong thing and they owed us nothing. It's just very generous and much appreciated. So a big thank you to them for that. I can't speak to the quality of these new queens but I do know his first hive which I gave him last year was made with a Russell VSH queen and that hive is going gangbusters this year so I expect the others to do just as well. The communication issues are a legitimate customer service issue. I think Russell recognizes that and is changing course to remedy the situation in his own way. I hope it all works out for the best for both them and his customers.

Re: Russell Queens

How can you have "different DNA"?

Even in the scientific community, the abbreviation "DNA" is used interchangeably to mean the molecule(s), the generic chemical compounds(s), or the coding contained therein...so arguing that "all DNA is the same" is being facetious and ridiculous purely for the sake of argument.

Debate is healthy and good, when there's something to be learned from it. However, making facetious arguments simply to degrade a conversation helps nobody, and confuses any readers who aren't educated on the subject..I think we should all find more constructive applications for our intelligence, instead of trying so desperately to prove to others that we have it (and no, I'm not calling anyone unintelligent...just suggesting that it should be put to more beneficial use).

...DNA is DNA

OK, I stand corrected, now we're calling all books the same, regardless of page count, OR content...the result is the same; "The Grapes of Wrath" and "The Cat in The Hat" are both books, but they are most definitely DIFFERENT books...they may both be made of ink & paper, but that does not in any way make them the same thing. A life form's DNA is the "book" containing all the information needed to manufacture that organism. The DNA is divided into chromosomes (chapters/pages), and each chromosome contains the code for many genes (words/sentences), each made up of several, ordered base pairs (letters/characters).

That's why to say that "DNA is DNA" is exactly equivalent to saying "a book is a book". In either instance, while the statement may be true in the nit-picky sense of "yes, they're made up of the same stuff"...that's the total end of the truth to the statement, as both DNA and books are defined by not the physical medium they're made of, but the stored information within that medium.

Any further sarcastic & intentionally inaccurate/misleading remarks on this line of questioning should be made by PM so as not to cause confusion for innocent bystanders who find this thread in a Google search.

Last edited by robherc; 05-31-2012 at 01:46 AM.
Reason: edited all personal references out

Re: Russell Queens

Well my dad got two queens in the post yesterday. The SKC he had ordered and they included a moonbeam for free to replace the SK that had died in the cage before being released. Got them in the splits yesterday. Checked today and the moonbeam was accepted. The SKC was dead in the cage. That's two sunkist queens that died in the cage and two moonbeams that made it fine under the same circumstances.

Re: Russell Queens

Originally Posted by robherc

Even in the scientific community, the abbreviation "DNA" is used interchangeably to mean the molecule(s), the generic chemical compounds(s), or the coding contained therein...so arguing that "all DNA is the same" is being facetious and ridiculous purely for the sake of argument.

I'm not being facetious at all. This forum and the readers are not the scientific community, hence my effort to clarify your use of the term "DNA".

Originally Posted by robherc

...DNA is DNA

OK, I stand corrected, now we're calling all books the same, regardless of page count, OR content...the result is the same; "The Grapes of Wrath" and "The Cat in The Hat" are both books, but they are most definitely DIFFERENT books...they may both be made of ink & paper, but that does not in any way make them the same thing. A life form's DNA is the "book" containing all the information needed to manufacture that organism. The DNA is divided into chromosomes (chapters/pages), and each chromosome contains the code for many genes (words/sentences), each made up of several, ordered base pairs (letters/characters).

That's why to say that "DNA is DNA" is exactly equivalent to saying "a book is a book". In either instance, while the statement may be true in the nit-picky sense of "yes, they're made up of the same stuff"...that's the total end of the truth to the statement, as both DNA and books are defined by not the physical medium they're made of, but the stored information within that medium.

There are certainly different Genomes comprised of DNA. When dealing with breeding, in the context of this thread, one producer's queens have the same DNA as another's. The queen's genomes are different.. The queen's hereditary expression is different. For sure!

I "nit-picked" as someone correcting grammer for clarity, would. No offense. No rancor-- not trying to be facetious.
My intent was to be accurate about the description of the breeding. That accuracy is important.