The Ultimate Crisis Hedge: Land. Physical Land.

Editor’s Note: With real estate prices continuing their downward trajectory and no end in sight, most Americans, even those who would love a new home, are shying away from the housing market. For the most part, this makes sense, especially considering that housing may fall another 20% to 30% from here. We certainly wouldn’t recommend jumping into a new traditional home ‘investment’ right now, especially if you have to take on a new mortgage to get it, and especially if it is in any major cities. There’s really no significant upside to the deal. Not only will you end up losing on the investment side, but the fact of the matter is that the majority of real estate is, contrary to popular belief, not an investment, but rather, a liability. A home in the suburbs or a condo in the inner city has no productive capacity – which means you’ll never really get anything out of it unless you buy at the very bottom of an unpredictable collapsing bubble. But for the right family, the right property may prove to be a great investment at this time, even if you have to borrow to buy it. It’s true that mortgage rates are at historic lows. And, with the real estate market in shambles, more land owners than ever before are willing to owner finance a deal, making it possible for those with not-exactly-great-credit or a huge down payment to have their own piece of paradise while also avoiding the banking system in general.

In the article below, Eric Peters provides several compelling reasons for why buying land, physical land, is the ultimate hedge against crisis – be it economic or otherwise. Unlike suburban properties, acreage outside of a major city can serve a multitude of purposes, including giving you the ability to produce your own food and the obvious protection provided from the possibility of rioting and civil unrest which is sure to hit the streets of America’s major cities in months and years to come. Even though the value (priced in dollars) of physical land may not be immune to what’s headed our way, the real value comes from its ability to actually produce something, rather than suck up more of your wealth like traditional real estate investments. There’s a reason that billionaires, hedge funds, and even sovereign wealth funds of entire nations are investing in farmland. They understand the trend, which is progressively rising food and energy costs. Find a good piece of land and you can completely eliminate these costs for the long-term, and create a truly self sufficient investment that never stops producing.

A Not-Car Column….
By Eric Peters

Last weekend, we bought some land.

This flies against policy (our policy) of never buying anything except that which can be paid for at the time of purchase – and even though I know full-well that we won’t really own the land, just as we don’t really own the land we have (or the house that sits upon it) because owners don’t pay rent in perpetuity to the government, which we, like all “owners” must (in the form of annual property taxes) if we wish to continue to be allowed to remain on the land (and in “our”) house.

Anyhow.

We did this deed as a way to hedge against what I am increasingly convinced is coming – the destruction of the dollar, followed about five minutes after this becomes common knowledge by the final implosion of what’s left of the American economy.

Land – physical land – is a good way (perhaps the only way, in a major economic crisis) to keep at least some of your wealth intact and more importantly – if you act in time – a way to transfer the value of fiat dollar-denominated assets into something tangible, of real value. Gold, of course, is another way to do this but it has a major disadvantage: It is only valuable as a sort-of proxy for wealth; that is, it has value only as long as someone else who has something you want is willing to trade you what he has for the gold you have – which means that he (the owner of the item you want) must believe he will be able to then swap the gold he gets from you to some other person who has something he wants, something that’s not gold. Put another way, gold is fungible only if there’s a still-operating economy. If the worst happens and the system really does experience a catastrophic collapse, the value of gold may collapse along with it – at least, for awhile. Until civilization re-assembles itself. But in the meanwhile, what will you do with your gold? It is pretty to look at but you can’t eat it and outside of a few specialized industrial applications that won’t matter during a period of crisis, it is useless.

Land, on the other hand, not only has tangible value (like gold) and is fungible (also like gold) because you can always convert it into gold or trade/sell it for something else you value – but perhaps much more importantly, in a time of real crisis, land can give you life.

Literally.

You can grow food on land – which could mean the difference between life and death, when the system runs off the rails and Costco and Safeway are looted to the linoleum. Which – count on it – is sure to happen the moment the masses get a whiff of the dollar’s imminent collapse. And you can hunt on land, too – assuming enough acreage.

But the number one advantage to land, as I see it, is physical distance between yourself – you and your family – and the latter-day Golden Horde that is already in the process of forming itself up. (Witness the so-called “flash mobs” of “youths” in Wisconsin, Philadelphia and other places.) Just as it is harder for a thug to assault you from 20 yards away than when he’s right up in your face, you stand a better chance of making it through what may be coming if you and yours are not in the immediate vicinity (or path) of the rampaging mobs. They may not even notice you – and more significantly, you will enjoy a greater likelihood of noticing them before they notice you. In old-school cowboy lingo, this means getting the drop on them. And that can be the difference between life and death as much as having some food and other supplies stored up to get you through a few months of hard times.

In the most extreme eventuality – minions of the Clover State coming to round you and yours up for “relocation” to a FEMA camp or god-knows-what-else in the immediate aftermath of a SHTF-type scenario – you have the option of just… disappearing. Of going off the grid, into the heart of darkness. It will not be easy. It will certainly not be pleasant. But it is much more pleasant than the alternative.

I am in my 40s now and like most people in that age bracket, I like my comforts. I enjoy having my motorcycle and car projects; even doing the chores around the place that need to be done. But if the S does H the Fan, I will do everything in my power to make it through to the other side of whatever’s coming, which will hopefully be something better than what we have now. But above all else, I will not Submit and Obey. If they come for me and mine, if they are not willing to leave us be in return for us extending the same common decency toward them – well, then we have options.

Because we have some land.

If you are reading this, there is still time for you to do the same. I hope you will consider it – and I hope you can make it happen.

Meanwhile, let’s hope for the best and that all we’ll be doing next summer is cutting the grass…. .

Throw it in the Woods?

Eric Peters is the proprietor of Eric Peters Autos and provides commentary on everything from classic cars and SHTF vehicles, to preparedness information and Libertarian ideas.

Copyright Information: This content has been contributed to SHTFplan by a third-party or has been republished with permission from the author. Please contact the author directly for republishing information.

Sadly the masses can’t buy land. If my dad didn’t leave me the property he bought in the 70’s I’d only have my home and a rental. Land isn’t cheap and the government makes you pay to keep it. I’ll bet my $770 annual Nevada property tax soars under hyper inflation.

Which, already having bought my land in the early 80’s, is what drew me to look at real money in the form of metals about 15 years ago…..so I wouldn’t loose my land to a piddly little amount of property taxes ( which hopefully the climb in metals would handle as the taxes climb ) like so many did in the last depression.

You go through 4 steps and can learn much about the soils, their limitations, and other characteristics on the parcel(s) you are considering. You can look at aerial photographs of the parcel and adjoining land. Knowing about the soils before you buy can help you avoid costly problems down the road. Or, go by your local USDA office and get even more detailed information.

My son ans I are putting in 2000square feet of raised beds for fall gardening.CSAs are in great demand and people flock to buy homegrown produce rather than paying through the nose at the local grocer not knowing how it was raised or handled.We came to attention after hearing about a man who stared doing this. He brings in those cloth ecobags full of mixed produce once a week and sells them for $20 a piece.Currently he is delivering to a thousand customers a week.$20,000 a week—in cash.Did the light bulb go off? I worked in grocery stores for nearly 20 years and never thought I could compete with them on selling produce. With higher trasportation costs and questionable products offered in stores that is no longer the case. I encourage everyone to purchase seeds by the ounce,rather than the wimpy paper packets, vacuum seal and save. Even if you can’t plant a garden now,you never know where you might end up when the hellstorm happens and then the seeds won’t be available. Good luck and good gardening!

My grandparents were farmers in Yugoslavia and put all their energy and surplus capital into buying more land. In 1944 they fled and the Communists took their land. I wish they would have bought more gold, less land. Land is nice, but gold is portable.

Hal makes a good point here, and as such, for those that have the ability to do so, international diversification in one form or another (land, safe deposit box with PM’s, etc.) is not a bad idea… just in case.

For the era we are about to see, land, gold, and children.
Please don’t laugh about the later. Many years ago, the most precious asset of the Greek agricultural communities were their children.
One will need as many hands as possible to work in the fields, breed more kids, and continue the family name.

My dad bought a rail road section in the Nevada high desert for deer hunting mostly; he joked with me in the 80’s about it being so damn remote no one would ever want to take it from the family – I think he’s right. Not to mention its big enough to get lost on, has numerous springs and creeks, and even though its surrounded by government land its 8 miles to the nearest road. Thanks Pop!

Thank you for this article. I’ve been wondering what others think about land as an investment. I’ve always thought it was a good idea.

We bought 34 acres recently. With 2 stocked ponds, a few springs, a small barn, woods & pasture. We’ll have a small cabin on it soon. It is at least 60 miles from any interstate & no where near any major town. To me, the entire piece = life.

We bought it for the exact same reasons: a place to park money, a place to produce our own food & lastly a place to get away from the masses.

If you cannot afford a sizeable piece on your own I suggest you find someone to share the cost with you. You will need the labor help anyway if the shtf. Make sure it’s within a few hours of your current home. And keep in mind, a water source & security are the most important aspects of your purchase.

Your house on the land is defensible. Your crops aren’t. If you have 40 acres of corn ready to harvest you might lose it all to mobs of starving people. Depending on when the collapse happens, of course. I hope it happens in November. It would be better if people froze rather than starved.

If your land is considered valuable they (government) will get a court order to take it from you. Your small arms will not match the police and hired guns who come to evict you. Like in the Depression, a bulldozer will flatten your house so you don’t think of coming back.

Also, it takes a while to pick up the equipment and skills needed to farm. Being in a farm community will help you with what you don’t know.

Blutarsky: You don’t need to tell us where exactly you were able to find an affordable piece of land with those features, but could you at least give us the general area or State? I have been watching land for 5 years looking for such a property, and every one I have come across is way overpriced (and not coming down along with the rest of real estate).

While I agree they may be useless in a COMPLETE SHTF situation, the odds are, we will simply see another 20-30 years of long, slow decline in the economy, and a more worthless dollar as they inflate themselves out of debt. Hopefully, your metal stash will inflate right along with it, and keep your property tax stable. So far, my 5 buck silver from 10 years back is doing fine at keeping up.

TnAndy, you have a beautiful place there…it’s obvious you have worked hard…it’s well thought out…I do envy you just a bit :)Wish we had “woken” up along time ago so we could have prepared better…but it is what it is…My husband and I have thought the same thing as you, precious metals to pay taxes…IF there is a government left to collect…personally, If my family and I have to go through the SHTF…I hope the government totally collapses and leaves us in peace for a while!!

You need to invest in gold. That way you’re prepared for hyperinflation. During hyperinflation and everyone’s taxes go sky high there won’t be any buyers for tax sale property anyway. Land is still a great thing to have if you can afford it. Not everyone can.

Generally, those who mention “off grid” seem to imply the use of solar panels. That’s how I look at it. I would bet your last dollar these are visible from a satellite view, which is an issue if you are trying to stay out of a FEMA camp, who knows what other type of camp, or just be out of sight.
I have seen plenty of declassified satellite views which really do not “close in” on the subject. I am going to go out on a limb, and say satellites can read the label on shorts, identify the brand and check for skid marks, that is only if you walk around with your pants down below your ass.

It might be reasonable to consider giving up the technology we have become used to. It would make it harder to be seen, if that is an issue.

Your problem isn’t going to be some CIA satellite photo, or a FEMA camp, since the feds can’t find their backsides with both hands NOW, much less if the country goes to hell.

Your problem is gonna be the refugees who flood out of the cities and bedroom suburbs looking to “bug out”, and you be the bug.

Your NEXT problem is the Bubba down the road living on a govt handout, snorting meth, his scrawny wife and 3 hungry kids crying, and he has a rusty 30-30 in the closet and 1/2 box of shells….and he KNOWS about your solar panels, so he KNOWS you got other stuff too.

Check out a book called “Surviving Off-Off Grid” written by Michael Bunker. Bunker is a Christian preacher who lives in a “plain” community in Texas. He has several web sites where he blogs, posts sermons, and hosts forums. Regardless of your reliogious views, reading the book will be a wealth of information for anyone wanting to survive whats coming.

Land is the ultimate hedge.. but the points above regarding taxes should be considered. Anyone who thinks that you actually “own” a piece of property is delusional. Try not paying your taxes and you’ll discover just how “firm” your property rights are. Don’t think that bravado like “I got me a gun” will help. That said, I own land, would be willing to buy more and without a doubt having it will place you in a far better position than not having it if the SHTF. If you think you can’t afford land, you might want to think again. People are making deals and owner financing is becoming more and more available. People want to sell for various reasons and are more and more willing to carry the paper to get the income. Just be sure to bind the land up with a strict legal document that prevents the holder of the paper from using the land as collateral or not paying the taxes.. use a good lawyer.

Also, if you are able and so inclined; there are MANY places you can go where land rights are much more firm and protected. For example, if you buy a piece of land in Panama and build a house on it; you pay NO land taxes of any sort for 20 full years, citizenship has no bearing on this. Many countries have such strict ownership laws, mainly due to their experiences after being subjects of Spain and Portugal, that it is almost impossible to take properly established ownership away from a citizen ( yes, you may have to hold dual citizenship to get full property rights ). As US citizens, we currently still have a wide range of options if we choose to take advantage of them.. in many countries, we are a highly prized and sought after commodity.. and they make their laws accordingly because they WANT us to move there..

Man, after losing my job in law enforcement 2008, I sold the 5 acres my mom left me because I couldnt pay the taxes, that said I wish now that I didn’t do this, yeah I am a loser! Oh I hate where I live, my wife is real heavy into the apostolic church and with four grandchildren living a few blocks away I can’t get her to see the importance of getting somewhere safer. I believe in Christ as my lord, but he gave me the ability to defend myself. She believes he will take vs

Copout.. you might try reminding her of the story of Joseph when he was sold into slavery in Egypt by his bad boy brothers. Look it up if needed and have her read the whole thing.. after that low point in his life, he wound up being made second only to Pharoah and and spent 7 years storing up food and stuff for the coming 7 years of bad times. Yes, we trust in God, but He gave us hands. Yes, our confidence is in His Providence, but He gave us eyes to see and ears to hear.

If God tells us in scripture to “Look to the ant, thou sluggard Consider her ways and be wise”….well, aren’t WE more important than an ant? And how about Noah…I don’t recall him telling God he didn’t need to build an ark cuz God would save him…and how about Mary and Joseph…God told Joseph to flee and take Mary and the babe to safety, why didn’t Joseph just tell God, “Hey, aren’t you going to provide and protect us”?? I could go on and on…The hubs and I are very strong Christians..but our main focus these days is prepping!
And we have a few friends who are doing the same…VERY few…unfortunately they are a lot like your wife, Copout…but we believe God has opened our eyes and we aren’t going to ignore that!

Copout: First, the ONLY thing that matters in the end is that you believe in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. Second, love your wife and your children and your grandchildren, and if being there for them means staying put, stay put. Third, do what you can to help them see what MAY be developing. Fourth, prepare as best you can to but out, with them, to someplace safe if the SHTF. Fifth, if you had to sell you had to sell–does not make you a loser. Sixth, put your faith and trust in the Lord–ultimately, if you have faith, He will save you for eternity.

Raised bed, Square Foot Gardening and Earth Boxes are both effective ways to provide some of your own food as well as lowering your cost at the super market while eating better for less.

We have a modestly 1,550 sq. ft. home with a reasonable sized side yard that sits on the edge of a large lagoon here in South Florida.

This fall there are three trees coming out and an extensive raised bed garden system is going in. If I had to pay to water it, then I probably wouldn’t do it. The water is headed down the Intercostal Waterway to the Atlantic anyway. I may as well ‘filter’ it through my garden first.

It may not change things much in the long run; but it feels better to be as self reliant as possible.

MM – If you’re lucky, they filled your area with muck from the glades.. I had a similiar sounding place years ago on a cul-de-sac, point lot on intersection of three canals. I literally fed 3-4 families from my small garden. I’d have banana bunches, no joke, that were 4.5 feet long and I had to get a neighbor to help me carry..well over 150 lbs. Happy Gardening..

Big ass Mango and Avocado trees. It’s really amazing; with the right set up you can literally get three growing seasons here in South Florida. Of course you have to change your ways with the summer heat.

Gets hot here in the summer, low 90s most all this July and August. I can live with that. In the ‘winter’ I may actually have to turn the central heat on two or three times a year. Folks up North would literally freeze to death if the heat wouldn’t come on; I would be uncomfortable and all bundled up for a few days. Some of these freezing cold places in the winter also have mid summer temps. up there in the mid 100s.

We are right next to an actual island with two points of entry/egress. A close look at the map shows that all of the neighborhoods surrounding this huge lagoon where three tributaries come together form an extended community with only three easily blocked entrances/exits to MadMarkie’s ‘hood’.

I think that I’m gonna wait this one coming down the road at us out while my family and I enjoy ourselves while we still have that chance together. I’m too old and to slow to run very far or very fast. So I think that my family and I are going to sit right here and see whatever we shall see.

Try visiting a Jamaican food store if you can.. ask them for Calaloo and Gunga. The spelling may be off, but phoenetically it is right. That will extend your growing season to all year. Calaloo looks like a weed, self seeds, grows GREAT and fast, cooks quick and tastes a lot like spinach. When young, you just pull up the whole plant and boil it a bit. Gunga or Pigeon Pea grows on a tall shrub, very hardy and attractive, produces tons of pea/beans. Tastes great, long lived. You can get seeds for both from the produce dept. at a Jamaican food store.. just get the Calaloo with the seed heads ( very obvious ) and shake them where you want it to grow. For the gunga, buy obviously mature bean pods, let them dry like normal beans and plant.

It looks like FL ducked another one. Another wave came off Africa a few days ago. Don’t get caught in the I95 parking lot if one comes your way MM. Any coconuts for Mary Ann’s pie and Ginger’s hooters.

Before everyone runs out and buys land thinking it may solve all of their problems, PLEASE, PLEASE, visit the site below to learn information about parcels you are considering buying. You may be surprised to find out how much information is available, much of it in tables that are easy to read. You can see high altitude photography of the parcel as well. Best of all, there is no cost for the information.

I worked for the USDA NRCS for nearly 34 years and I can’t tell you how many times people bought land and then came to our office to ask what it’s capabilities were. Then I had the job of telling them their soils had serious problems. Developers have no scruples about selling land that is as worthless as tits on a boar hog. You can also look in the phone book under US Government, Department of Agricultues, Natural Resource Conservation Service to find your local office. Make an appointment to go by the office and ask for their input on the capabilities and limitations of the soils on the land you are considering buying. You don’t have to tell them you’re a prepper. Most of the time they won’t give a darn about your land but will give a darn about telling you about the soils, and their limitations.

VRF: Reuters is reporting a 5.9, but here’s the rub: it was only .6 miles deep! That isn’t an earthquake. I have ner heard of an earthquake with an epicenter less than a mile deep. That’s got to be blasting for tunnels!

Just my humble opinion, but I have never have I heard of an earthquake from natural events that close to the surface.

Copout: Reuters said a depth at point six of a mile. That is what freaked me. I have never heard of an earthquake that large, that shallow.

If enough explosives were laid for dentonation at the same time through a horizontal borehole, a lot of rock could be blasted to dust, a new secret “facility” could be created for the elite and no one would be wiser. One report I read said “two shocks”.

That rock would still have to be removed. People in the area should look for dump trucks etc operating day or night, even in the wee hours of the morning. Call me crazy but that “earthquake” would be the perfect cover for a new PTB facility.

One important point raised in the preamble and article is the investment issue. An investment is something that produces income faster than the expenses of maintaining the item.

A home is NOT an investment. Never was, never will be. Productive ag land is. A woodlot is not, but a woodlot with a chainsaw mill might be. A vacant field is not, but a few acres of hay might be. The same acreage in vegetables just might be your best investment.

As confidence in the USD deteriorates, gold coins might become the currency of choice for those selling out and only to willing to move to the back of the bus.

The property tax bugaboo? With the inevitable decline in gov’t employee base, the question will be one of cost/benefit ratio for prosecuting those slow to get thier property taxes paid on time. Before you panic over tax issues with ag land, you had better look at the massive number of gov’t programs intended to keep the farmer on the land and in production.

Even raw arable land with a dependable supply of good water is far better than your apartment or cozy house in the suburbs. I can think of nowhere in the entire country you can’t live at least 6 months in a tent. Yes, even in Alaska. Been there, done that, moved into a 12×16 guide tent in mid-March with a family of four and a wood stove.

I have relatives in AK. If the SHTF, you won’t need to rope off any land. There’s plenty for everyone!!

Any hoot, hope this helps:

Since the 1986 repeal, there has been no federal homesteading program in Alaska; the State of Alaska, however, created public land disposal programs starting with statehood in 1959. Initially, the state sold land primarily through auctions and then through land lotteries after 1978. In 1977 the Homesite Law provided for “free land” with provisions similar those of the federal Homestead Act. In 1984, the Homestead Program was initiated, allowing for the claim of 40 non-agricultural acres or 160 agricultural acres of land. The requirements for homesteaders eventually came to include U.S. citizenship and residency in Alaska for one year prior to filing as well as certain surveying, clearing and building obligations. After 1988, all parcels eligible for homesteading were first staked out by the Alaska Department of Natural Resources.

Thanks Mal! I am good to go where I am at, but do hope to visit Alaska someday, I remembered the Homestead provision from years ago but wasn’t sure if it were still in place. Is that FEE Simple including all minerals?

After the SHTF, land will be aplenty for all. One man can only work and protect so much land, an that will be his lawful limit.

That is the natural law anyway. Nobody owns the land, it belongs to God. But you can use it while you are here. The banks don’t own crap, and anything you bought with their credit gives you no rights in the law once the corp courts are disintegrated.

If the SHTF you can claim any workable piece of land you want, so long as that land is not being worked by another. There are vast expanses of land going to waste now. Millions of vacant homes. All of that will be repatriated from the bankers and available for anyone to claim that can work and defend it.

GC: While that may be the natural law, corporate law will still be in effect, and if you fall behind on your taxes you might find out that your neighbor, who has always coveted that “bottom” land, has beeen paying your taxes for years.

Now, not only must you redeem the land from him, you must also pay a return specified by state tax law or lose your property by tax poreclosure. In Arizona, thats a guaranteed 8%. In Michigan, the last I knew it was 16%.

TnAndy has the right idea and the right advice.

Start a “church”. Donate the land to the “church”. No taxes for “church” land. The Main Stream Churches have been using that scam for years.

Are you going to continue to support the corp after it has taken everything you have, and everything you think you have, and everything everybody you know had? I suspect most people will not. Judges will be more likely to get hanged than to have an order honored.

To think the corp and it’s courts will maintain any authority at all is to admit defeat at the hands of the corp, and is surrendering ALL authority to it, rather than just what it can con you out of.

As long as the masses continue to give the corp credibility, the wrong battle is being fought. If the credibility is still given after the SHTF, it is the people who lose credibility and will get what they deserve.

If you are preparing for the corporations survival, you may as well not prep at all.

GC: The Corp has made me wealthy because I understand the rules that the corp abides by, the economic principles that it operates under, and I have used that knowledge to secure my future and my fate.

I do not fear the the Corp. I am the Corp. The Corp belongs to me. You have chosen to opt out. That is your right. That is why you do not have any assets, or any income of significance.

The Corp will operate after the Changes. It will apply the laws of the land as it always have, and life will go on. Those who do not understand the law will be crushed by it. If you want the original intent to exist in America you must engage. Opting out will not get it operational again.

Unless WE the people engage the government and make it work for US as it is suppose to, and as it will if WE demand it, the Corp will do what it damn well pleases, and those who get in the way of it will be crushed.

I am a stakeholder and manager of the Corp. YOU are not. That is the reason why the Corp does not work for you. It works great for me. Really!

Okay sure. Hope it works out for you. There is a reason so much land is undeveloped. Dope it out for yourself. Vacant homes, sure go ahead and squat. Uh, where you gonna get the water with utilities shut down and do you reckon the locals will be eager for squatters to move in and put extra demands on scarce resources? But you got it all figured out. Good luck cause I reckon you’re gonna need it.

1. Location, Location, Location. I picked mine in a naturally defensive location. Two ways in/out by road, and high mtns on the rest. Couple hours work with a chainsaw, and it would take weeks to get in here….took 2 weeks after an ice storm in 1993, using the national guard and a lot of man hours.

2. Move there NOW. Don’t wait to “bug out” to it. Develop relations with the residents and hope you become one of them. Start a “Valley Social Club”, which in SHTF will become the “Vally Anti-Social Club” if you don’t live there.

3. Move there now. It takes YEARS to develop infrastructure such as water, roads, gardening land ( which often requires fencing to keep critters out ), and alternative power, storage ( like root cellar/etc ) and so on. YEARS I tell you.

4. The ability to grow enough to eat does not come with a pack of seeds. The more garden seasons you can get under your belt, the more likely you are too succeed. The time for screwing up is while you can still go to the grocery store if the bean beetles wipe you out.
You’ll learn EVERY season. Been at it 35 years, and still learning. Had a complete failure this year on first planting of beans, from saved seed, and not weather related.

I simply can’t stress enough…..move there NOW, and get experience while it’s still cheap.

#4 You bet’cha big time. Been at it here for most of 30 years and the photoperiodism (Day/night ratio) still gets me. Experiment with new or different varieties of veggies. Example: broccoli raab is NOT broccoli (really a weird turnip) and bolts to seed in our long days of summer (no true darkness). Learn while it is still relatively cheap.

Time is your enemy. Either do it now or become just another migrant worker and we ain’t hiring. If you can’t/won’t take care of yourself and your family, I can’t trust you no matter how much gold you possess. There are no buy-ins after the SHTF. The ants never fed the grasshoppers.

Land is NOT a hedge; it is a potential investment if it is arable. Potential because it don’t do a thing sitting there. It take hard work and time.

Armed bandits can and will take anything they want. Rhodesia? Better read some history. The people voted thier land away to stop a civil war. Mugabe (sp) and crew enacted land redistribution to the insurgents. Plenty of land, but distribute undeveloped land? No way. That would have guaranteed failure just as much as the redistribution of developed ag land did.

Please don’t buy any arable land. There are plenty of folks that don’t share your hostility towards land ownership and the agrarian lifestyle. Uh, what’cha gonna eat when your MREs run out? S’pose you could be like Kevin Costner in “Waterworld” and carry a tomato plant with you. Good luck. BTW, you might wanna read TnAndy’s post about land; especially points #2,#3,#4. And point #1? I’m reminded of the song, “Bad boy, bad boys, what’cha gonna do? What’cha gonna do when they come for you.” It ain’t gonna be LEOs or blue helmets for you to defend against. But you might not understand basic infantry tactics of a defensible location. You can download a copy of “The Art of War.” Turn off the TV, put down the remote and read something.

Old NCOs are harsh instructors because the outcome of ignorance is far worse.

This makes me think that a house “in town” is a better choice than isolated land. I assume there’s a prepper debate on this topic. Small towns can be defended in numbers. Seems to me a dude in the woods would be easily over-run. Please debate this. It’s something I’ve been thinking about. thx

Isolated land is good because it’s isolated. People would have to know that you have food or other resources before they bother you. In a small town you’re still in danger from everyone in the town if you have food and they don’t.

True but…that means it aint going anywhere…therefore I can return or my heirs can…and shoot the bassturds and reclaim the land,infrastructure may have to be replaced but hey building isnt all that dificult!

FYI….About 15 months ago a parcel of land near my fathers and families became available. My brother and I really wanted to add it too our holding but we didn’t have the money. I was able to move some of my IRA into a self directed IRA and buy shares in an LLC that my IRA thus owns. That cash was then used for the down payment on the property and my annual IRA contribution more then makes the payment.

If you have an IRA or can convert a 401k to an IRA there are ways you can use them to buy land. It is not “cheap” for the whole thing cost me $1,000 in fees and legal costs, but it was worth it.

Land is cheap in Oklahoma. Guess there’s a reason for that though. Aint no jobs and it’s so hot the devil left 3 weeks ago. Said he’d be back in time for the Sooners football games.(how else did you think we won?)
Okie property taxes are fairly low also. At least they are if you don’t live in a McMansion. With a ‘homestead exemption’ the first several thousand of appraised value isn’t taxed at all. Not sure what the formula is, I just know my old shack of a house and the 40 acres it sits on has no tax liability at all. Been here 15 years and haven’t paid a dime in taxes yet. And, yes, I check with the gubmint bureaucrats at the assessors office every year to make sure.
The state does, however, make up for low property taxes in other ways- like state income tax, sales tax on everything including groceries, and a few other taxes. Overall, the okie tax burden is a bit less than the national average- certainly less than California and most ne states.
Now, we aint ALL rednecks,(just the smart ones) but if politics is important to you, then be forewarned- even the democrats here are way more conservative than east coast republicans. Last time our state went democrat in a national election was when Grover Cleveland was running! OK, that’s an exaggeration, it was actually in 1964 for LBJ. And we only did that as a courtesy because he was from Texas.
So, if you don’t mind having no beaches, redwood trees or skyscrapers, and if you think you’d make a good redneck-in-training, then consider a move to Oklahoma. And if you bring a guitar, a banjo, or a good hunting dog with you, no training necessary- you’ll fit right in!

Jim,
Yes, good point. These IRA’s you speak of are called “self directed IRA’s”. You have to go through an administrator (google self directed IRA’s, state you live in”. It costs about $1,000+, but you can put an LLC into the IRA and just about anything else, except your personal residence.

Yes. The SE part of the state gets much more rain plus has more forested areas too. There’s even a bit of logging and a few paper/lumber mills there. On a map, interstate 35 divides the wet from the dry areas. West half of the state is drier and flatter, though not table top flat like Amarillo TX. It’s mostly pasture and wheat. East half is greener, wetter and more rolling hills- not much different than the ozarks.
Farmland or other undeveloped land, if it’s a few miles from town, can still be had for about 2 grand an acre in small (1 to 10 ac) tracts. Larger tracts (say 20 or more ac) can be bought for around 1000 to 1500 per acre. Plus, many rural areas have few, if any, restrictions. In my area, I can shoot a gun, plant a garden, build a barn (or house) or pretty much do what I want with no permission slip from any gov agency required. It’s just common sense and courtesy toward the neighbors that controls what I do. And vice-versa.

MY home and land is debt free, but if i was to live another fifteen yrs, I’d probably lose it to land and school taxes, the school taxes here are out of control, imagine this, we have a bus driver making 26. per hr to drive a school bus.Even when we vote a budget down, they just keep holding elections til the people get bored and don’t show up.

They could get by for a hell of a lot less per student using the ‘virtual-school’ concept. Maintaining those huge school facilities year round is crazy. The students in the virtual school here are in an actual classroom setting with other students and several teachers one day every two weeks.

Like someone else here, I inherited land. I own 10 acres, but my Mom, who lives next door has another 64. And, my sis who lives on the other side has 3 acres. We have been gardening for many years.

Once you master some basic gardening skills, learn SAFE food preservation. Last year I invested in a pressure canner and this year I’m stockpiling more jars. Unless you live in a warm climate, you need to be able to save some food for the colder months. I put up a greenhouse this spring and will try some things in there this Fall / early Winter.

We had hoped to be able to have a few deer to put up, but there is a disease going through deer herds in our area killing many off. The disease is called Blue Tongue. Not sure what this years hunting season will be like.

That blue tongue is “muy mal”. We had that show up here a few years ago. We would find a lot of deer dead around, and in, (some cases) farm ponds and streams. It finally left out and I haven’t heard of anymore sightings around here. Hope you have a good season and knock alot of em down. I’m hoping to fill the second freezer up as well as “can” some venison.

You all might be interested that George Soros, the Chinese, the Feds and Jim Rodgers have been buying up beaucoup farmland here in the states. Control the food, you control the people. Teamed up with Monsanto, and we are so screwed. Don’t forget your heirloom seeds people. There are several good places to buy them. I’ve been getting them from Baker Creek Seeds. I vaccuum seal them and put them in the freezer. Get yourself a good book on saving seed each year. “Seed to Seed” is a great book to learn how to do this. Get engaged, read and learn, ask questions. Get chickens, rabbits, even on small city property they can be raised and feed you.

Migrate (Migration)
To go from one country, region, or place to another.

Nomadism
1. A member of a group of people who have no fixed home and move according to the seasons from place to place in search of food, water, and grazing land.
2. A person with no fixed residence who roams about; a wanderer.

Land ownership is a misnomer. Presently, if you pay tax on land (or owe taxes), do you really “own” the property, in America?

Bottom line: In America, If “they” (government/corporations) decide they want your land, they can take your land, and “ask” you to move, anytime they want it and there’s absolutely nothing you can do about it, unless, of course, you have a greater means for defending yourself (than they have for overpowering you) while being under siege.

Sure, we pay taxes to keep the right to use and sell our land, but it beats the hell out of paying a landlord!
30 years of that and you’ll have a shoebox full of receipts (and much higher rent by then).
At least 30 years after paying a mortgage off, I’ll have an asset.

“Sure, we pay taxes to keep the right to use and sell our land, but it beats the hell out of paying a landlord!”

It all depends.
I paid cash for my home and land. Own it out right, but still have taxes. Which means, to me, I have a landlord, i.e. the government. On the other hand, I know many, many people who have a mortgage and are underwater. So, does that constitute an asset? Still, more and more are unable to make the mortgage payments. The question I ask is “Do you own your land/home or does your land/home own you? There’s a big difference.

Personally, I would rather rent in this day and age than take out a 30 year mortgage. Too dangerous economically, speaking, But I have to admit, each case is unique to itself. I can only speak for myself since I know what I am capable of accomplishing, economically speaking.

Seems to me that landowners are going to be the ones on the hook for all the US debt. Renters won’t be. A renter could keep all his $ in a Singapore bank while living/working in US. A landowner is in the vulnerable position of having a large amount of wealth tied up in an asset that is really owned by the government, is only “owned” by the landowner at the whim of the government, and can be seized at anytime due to any number of laws. Contract/property law is what gives land much of its value, and I see a country that is political decline. Why tie up wealth in that sort of asset?

Dbay, exactly, exactly. Great point. It may be the home/land owners with their perceived assets become the last line of defense, so to speak, that have to take up the slack, getting smacked with astronomical taxes that either keep them as slaves to the system or they end up selling because they can’t afford the taxes or they try to sell but can’t (housing market completely crashes) and lose the property to either the holder of the mortgage or more conveniently, the government.

In my mind, I’m “kind of” writing off my property/home and am already quite prepared to be mobile on relatively short notice if need be. Where I’d go, well, hard to say. Got many options but “out to sea” might give me a certain freedom that living on land might not provide.

On the other hand, if the present infrastructure completely melted down and our present system of documenting land ownership went up in smoke, then it might be a free for all and staying put would be the only rationale option, unless we all played musical chairs with the millions of homes scattered across the landscape.

Nice thing about living in the unincorporated borough in Alaska; no property taxes. Of course ain’t squat for services either. You can contract with private companies for all the services you can afford. Community well is $50/year you haul or harvest rain. 3 garbage cans a month is something like $35/month or you can drive your pick-up load 50 odd miles to the landfill and dump for $50. $0.25/KWh and local+dial-up is $45/month. Sewage? Think outhouse. $4.60 a gallon for stove oil or burn wood if you can get to it. Much of the country is owned by the native corporations. Last I checked, $20/cord standing and downed dead only.

The big difference is out here, you have a choice. Pay to play or not. TANSTAAFL

The so-called corp has almost always treated me right. My army paycheck bought my land. The VA hospital took care of me even though I don’t have a service connected injury. I’ve had nothing but good experiences with the Post Office.

Query GC, don’t you get mail? No phone, no lights? You said you opted out. Uh-huh, yah. I’ve heard ducks fart underwater before and they all sound the same.

Americans will be roaming through the streets. The Lord has shown this writer that America will be known as a NATION OF REFUGEES. People will be roaming to and fro from one city to another, seeking shelter and rest. The Lord said what we saw in New Orleans after the hurricane called Katrina hit will become a national reality. Just as those people fled from their destroyed city to other cities, so shall it be in the days ahead. Because of the several nuclear detonations, natural disasters and other terrorist-related incidents in major cities across America on the same day, millions will be wandering from sea to shining sea looking for a place of safety and rest.

During this time of wandering people will become infected as biological and chemical weapons are released upon the population. Great food shortages and water shortages are going to cause rioting and looting in an unprecedented way. Great violence will emerge and a strong spirit of brutality will manifest. KATRINA IS THE PICTURE multiplied a thousand times.

Las Vegas, Nevada will be a GHOST TOWN. People will be wandering through the emptied and mostly destroyed casinos and city shopping malls. They will fondle gambling “chips” that possess no value. Las Vegas shall surely be a haunt of every unclean bird and jackals will reside in that place.

Martial law will be imposed within the nation. A time of complete desperation will hit…………………….

We ARE in the Last Day’s but God’s judgement is not reserved for America alone. Watch Europe not America. Europe is the key to BIBLICAL prophecy.

Frankly I am prepared to meet my Maker right now! And I live every day accordingly. Until then I fear nothing; not man or beast or even The Beast.

I take each day as it comes and do the things I know to do and leave the details AND the big picture to God. I would suggest that the individuals on this post are aware of the possibilities and options they have.

jrsmac, if you really want to save the Lost I suggest you get down to Las Vegas and work the streets with the hookers, pimps, and con men who need you.

Just saw US Rep. Mike Rogers (R. Michigan) on CNN with Wolf Blitzer. Rep. Rogers sits on the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. Rogers expressed his concern about the weapons in Libya getting loose on the black market. Rogers said people would sell these weapons to anyone because “We know that there are going to be severe economic hard times coming”. He must be reading our posts. Or he knows something scarier than the MSM is telling us. You think?

Hmm. Maybe I need an 8th G? GROUND? No, really, the 7th G is for Garden and it takes Ground to do this. I found this article by a really great guy and he says you have to have a balanced approach. Ground goes a long way in that balance. Just don’t forget you gotta have the guns to protect it.

Read it. Copy it. Heck, tatoo it on your back! I care not. I wrote it for all of you. Modify it. Call it your own. But, whatever you do, FOLLOW IT!!!

Mal…same here–I have a neighbor that asked me to get the jeans on sale today and shirts too for her dh…and she worked last week cleaning dorms to get money to store food and preps..
Am I glad?? Well, just wish she’d started 2 years ago when I advised her.
They still don’t have weapons…she has a pool in back yard–she has a huge liability.

dh and I were talking about that today..
Yes, we had a pool and it is awesome to think of for water storage…for a while.
After the water gets so low, the skimmer doesn’t clean the water…and they have no cover.
Our cover did keep our water nice through the winter except for millions of worms.

Don’t laugh… His optometrist friend!! They spent a few hours discussing the world and it made him think. He kinda suspected I was prepping and his wife’s an accountant that’s been preaching getting some gold. So, between the wife, the neighbor, and the eye doctor, he woke up!!

Love reading all the posts – I learn so much. I’m thinking if the land purchased is really remote, even if I can’t pay the taxes and the gubment takes it, will they ever actually come out to possess it? They need alot of man power to patrol and maintain all the land they will be reposessing. There are foreclosures in our HOA that have been sitting here for over 2 years with no one doing anything about them….

If the “powers-that-be want your land,” then they will take it. One of the reasons that so many mortgages are improperly documented, is so that they can come in later and claim that you do not own the property, as the seller was not the owner, and had no right to sell it to you. You must either forfeit the property or sign a new (probably more expensive) mortgage, which may even include penalties and interest. Right now, they seem to be interested in beach, waterfront, and farmland properties. This terrible economy is no accident…we were allowed to accumulate wealth and property so that they (the elite) could take it when they chose to. They will have to face the maker some day…would not want to be them.

Nice, but very much idealistic. If things will come to the “end” on such a great scale, then… who will protect your RIGHT of owning this pathetic “peace of land” of yours?!
You, yourself?
Common! Get beck to your early years and see that Hollywood’s crap of “cowboy’s movies” once again…
In your scenario there will be only one currency! Not gold, not silver, defiantly not land, but – the ammo! (God save us all from your predictions!)

I DONT KNOW IF ANYONE HERE WOULD BE INTERESTED, BUT I HAVE A 8 PLUS ACRE WITH 3 STSLL BARN, DETACHED GARAGE, 1/4 ACRE SPRINGFED POND STOCKED WITH CATFISH, BRIM AND BASS, NEW 6 STRAND BARB WIRE FENCING ON OVER HALF OF PROPERTY, HAS A NATURAL TREE FENCELINE ON BACK HALF, ALL YOU WOULD HAVE TO DO IS RUN BARB WIRE USING TREELINE TO COMPLETE FENCING, THEN IT IS READY FOR LIVESTOCK. I AM ASKING 139,900. IT IS IN SCOTTSVILLE KY. 352-256-3029 IF INTERESTED.

MadMarkie says: We have a modestly 1,550 sq. ft. home with a reasonable sized side yard that sits on the edge of a large lagoon here in South Florida.
————————————————-
Below is part of some very long visions about America.
But it speaks of Florida being underwater.
I have read other visions where two thirds or more of southern Florida are under water.
One day the water will just start creeping up and people will not realize what is happening until it is too late.

America REPENT, we are under God’s Judgment.
He is our only Hope!!!
Seek Him, find out what He wants you to do!

Romans 10:9-10

9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

I saw two tidal waves hit America; one hit in the gulf coast and part of Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia and Florida were under water by this massive tidal wave. Thousands of people were being sucked out to sea. The other tidal wave hit the west coast and tens of thousands of people were being suck out to sea, from Washington, Oregon and California. Then I looked to the east coast and huge portions of the cost dropped into the ocean. When all this happens and America is split in three, there will be such a loud cry, for they will see death, fire and famine everywhere; then they will know that they are ruined and totally naked. As I watched, I heard a loud shout from the heavens and the voice said, “Woe to you, oh great mystery, for Judgment has come, America in One Hour”. Then America was gone and I did

While I don’t completely disagree with some of this thought process, like everything you describe as SHTF, land prices will too. We are in a bubble. Land prices have gone up 3-7x in just the last 3-5 years. This is unsustainable. “Investors” like yourselves, institutions, etc. are “buying” the real estate broker lines and will be taken to the woodshed. Brokers will say about anything to get a commission. It doesn’t matter that interest rates are low. When your “parked money”(what you pay for land) gets chopped in half…what will you do? Do you sell? What will others like you do? How many have to sell into a market where everyone else is afraid to buy, for there to be a huge crash? Can you withstand that? Leave the farming to family farmers, please. We would love to buy more land to bring in the next generation, but it is rediculously high prced. It will drop, perhaps precipitously. We are not buying land at these prices(others are, as they believe crop prices will continue to escalate). We are diversifying into other businesses, equities, probably should look at gold, etc. Diversity! Should you put a large amount of your assets into one asset (land)? Be careful!

Hog Farmer: Although I agree with you about being careful with land purchases, I would not call land a “bubble” due to any nominal rise in price. It’s a mistake to measure it in terms of Dollars. The Dollar currency is being debased. what you seeing is not a RISE in the price of land, but a FALL in the purchasing power of the Dollar…big difference.

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