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I am of the opinion that for any large group, the average IQ is determined from birth. You can tell a high IQ baby from the way he plays in a crib and the way his eyes move. You can tell a dullard the same way. What you do at age 3 might make a kid KNOW more at age 4 but it won't raise his IQ or his ability to learn and deduce.

Smart kids aren't created by parenting. Rotten parents might make kids neurotic but they won't GENERALLY make them smart or stupid. Rare exceptions occur but overwhelmingly, smart kids are BORN not MADE.

Did I say those words? Or are you writing your own narrative?

If you have to rely on dishonesty then you have lost credibility. Move along.

2) Poverty. Often enough. But as history has shown us, embracing education defeats poverty.

3) Apathy- OK, but how do I or anyone else make an apathetic kid want to learn? That is on them.

Your mention of Rosa Parks is inane, irrelevant, and more than a bit pathetic.

There is no racism in America? Please tear yourself away from your television and take a look at reality.

History shows us just the opposite - public education in America has not made a DENT against poverty. Before you start blowing hot air, find some facts and figures. History shows us - ha ha ha - that's a good one. Provide ONE instance.

I was referring to your apathy. You don't care that people are suffering from a lack of opportunity in the country and that lives are being thrown away.

YOUR apathy is worse than the apathy of any inner city kid who doesn't want to do work he doesn't find to be meaningful or relevant to his/her experience.

This is truly simple-minded thinking and a case of blaming the victims.

What caused this "bad culture"? What caused this "faulty upbringing"? You don't see any racism or ignorance or lack of humanity in your attitude?

The truth is that those people are not intelligent enough to create a developed culture on their own. Give them a lot of opportunities, money and education, and those people will squander it, because they are mentally incapable of governing themselves in a productive way. Hence why all "poor societies" survive as parasites from productive ones.

Why should we care for them? There is absolutely no obligation, it is only up to personal preference.

Things like humanitarianism are invented ideas for the purpose of political appeasement, and have no real basis in reality. If a society or community can't sustain themselves then they will just go into the trash heap of history, like the countless other groups that disappeared before them.

History shows us just the opposite - public education in America has not made a DENT against poverty. Before you start blowing hot air, find some facts and figures. History shows us - ha ha ha - that's a good one. Provide ONE instance.

I think public education provides an escape from poverty... for those who are disciplined enough to make education a priority. In 2006, 30% of incoming freshman at Stuyvesant were immigrants. Not all of those are going to be considered poor, but I bet you a few of them had parents working as menial labor in restaurants and stores. I personally know someone who came to the United States as a refugee when she was very young and lived in a crappy neighborhood. Her parents emphasized the importance of education. Eventually, she went on to become valedictorian at her high school (w/ a perfect Math SAT score), attended an Ivy League school and is a successful surgeon today.

The opportunities are there. However, children's biggest influences are their friends and family. If the friends and family aren't pushing kids to take education seriously (and take advantage of these opportunities) how much of that is the fault of the educational system and how much of it is the fault of the kids' friends, family, home environment and culture?

YOUR apathy is worse than the apathy of any inner city kid who doesn't want to do work he doesn't find to be meaningful or relevant to his/her experience.

Your facile blaming of educational failure (at even the very earliest levels!) on racism is what is apathy. Its throwing your hands up and refusing to examine whats really going on. A charge of "racism" is too often used as a tool to end debate, but your use of it is slightly nuanced at least, its to end your thinking on the subject.

As for your nonsense that education has not made a dent against poverty, the whole thesis is that people NOT taking advanatage of the education by behavioral modes that sabotage themselves is the issue. ie, the opportunity is there (and people break their necks trying to get here to take advantage of it) but is not used - and if it is not used of course it is impotent!

I don't know why you bother posting Celtic, you can just get an iphone App that generates the same tired and worn "arguments", it'll save you time.

As we talked about this problem here, you have people out there
actually doing something to help the kids from poor neighborhoods
instead of just talk and complaint.

Thats an excellent program - this kind of thing is needed at all levels.

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