Harvard University has now sequenced some of the amino acids from the hadrosaur. So now that Pandora’s box is open, now that it’s no longer taboo for secular scientists to publish what creationist scientists have been saying for some time (that we have proteins from dinosaurs) the floodgates are open. It’s just a mountain of evidence that these dinosaurs have not fully decomposed. But do you think they’re teaching this in the public schools or even in most colleges? Most people do not know. This should be the find of the decade, of the century! Right now this should be the #1 most significant scientific discovery. It should be all over the nighttime news but it’s nowhere to be seen.

SUMMARY:

* RSF's 2012 LIST OF NOT SO OLD THINGS: Real Science Friday co-hosts Fred Williams and Bob Enyart observe their annual tradition by updating their classic List of Not So Old Things! This growing list of scientific observations contains items that old-earthers were unprepared for, and many other items that even old-earth geologists now admit did not form over millions of years, but rapidly. Many of these scientific finds demand a re-evaluation of supposed million-year ages:

* Iron-clad Dinosaur-era Soft-tissue from "70-million year old" Mosasaur: In this stunning peer-reviewed report of yet another soft-tissue discovery (after such finds from a T. rex, a hadrosaur, and archaeopteryx), scientists from secular universities in Europe and America use sophisticated techniques to rule out modern contamination, and conclude that original biological material exists from a relatively small bone from an allegedly 70-million year old extinct marine reptile called a Mosasaur. See more...

* More Soft Dinosaur Tissue, Now from an "80 Million" Year Old Hadrosaur: Consistent with expectations of biblical creationists, according to National Geographic, there's another discovery of soft tissue in a dinosaur, this time, a hadrosaur, with soft blood vessels and connective tissue and… what’s this? Looks like blood cell protein amino acid chains that have already been partially sequenced at Harvard. This supposedly 80-million year-old non-fossilized duck-billed dinosaur tissue was discovered by a team led by researchers at North Carolina State University. Seems that Harvard, et al., wanted to get some soft dinosaur tissue so they put together a team and just went out and found some. Consider all the potential soft tissue, and perhaps even DNA, lost to humanity because of the false evolutionary timescale which so biased paleontologists that they never even looked for non-decomposed original biological tissue inside of dinosaur bones.

* Now Soft Tissue in a "150-Million" Year Old Archaeopteryx: One would think that these soft-tissue dinosaur finds would be trumpeted as the scientific discovery of the decade. But so many informed evolutionists whom we talk to: 1) have never even heard of these developments, 2) initially deny them, 3) assume that it must be creationists who claim to have found them, and 4) repeat old debunked claims that they then find online that these are not dinosaur tissues but bacterial contamination. Now, from the mother lode of evolutionary dogma, The Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, comes this report that scientists have found various types of original biological material in archeopteryx feathers and bones, biological material that supposedly has survived for 150 million years!

* Scablands: cover thousands of square miles of eastern Washington and against fierce geologists claims of slow formation over millions of years, there is now overwhelming evidence as presented even in a NOVA TV show that the Scablands formed rapidly from catastrophic, regional flooding.

* Heart Mountain Detachment: near Yellowstone, didn't occur slowly by uniformitarian processes, but in only about 30 minutes a mountain of rock covering 425 square miles broke into 50 pieces and slide apart over an area of more than 1,300 square miles. The evolutionist source LiveScience.com reports, "Land Speed Record: Mountain Moves 62 Miles in 30 Minutes."

* '150 million year old' Squid Ink Not Decomposed: This ink had not decomposed; it was merely dried out. The British Geological Survey's Dr. Phil Wilby, who excavated the fossil, said, "It is difficult to imagine how you can have something as soft and sloppy as an ink sac fossilised in three dimensions, still black, and inside a rock that is 150 million years old." And the Daily Mail states that, "the black ink was of exactly the same structure as that of today’s version." And Wilby added, "Normally you would find only the hard parts like the shell and bones fossilised but... these creatures... can be dissected as if they are living animals, you can see the muscle fibres and cells. It is difficult to imagine... The structure is similar to ink from a modern squid so we can write with it..." Why is this difficult for evolutionists to imagine? Because as Dr. Carl Wieland writes, "Chemical structures 'fall apart' all by themselves over time due to the randomizing effects of molecular motion." [Correction: This ink was not still liquid as Bob had first misread, but it had only dried out and was not decomposed.]

* Rare School of Jellyfish Fossilized: Previously, seven sedimentary layers had been described as taking a million years to form. And because jellyfish have no skeleton, it is rare to find them among fossils. But now, a school of jellyfish fossils have been found in those same seven layers showing that they were not deposited over a million years, but during a single event and quickly enough to trap a school of jellyfish.

* Yellowstone Petrified Tree Strata: The National Park Service took down their incorrect sign that had claimed petrified trees in a dozen different strata had proved that millions of years had passed during the rise and fall of successive forests. But the petrified trees there had no root systems, and the trees were clearly transported by water and settled into rapidly deposited sediments just as had occurred in Spirit Lake after Mount St. Helens erupted. Bob Enyart had the honor of working with the head ranger at a National Park (had dinner at his home; discussed how this sign could be removed), and he corresponded with his colleagues at Yellowstone and urged them to correct or remove the sign. They removed it. See also AIG. (If you took a photo of that sign, or know of one, can you send it along to Bob Enyart? It was taken down before the Internet became so popular, and so we haven't been able to find a larger photo online. Thanks!)

* Asiatic vs. European Honeybees: These two populations of bees have been separated supposedly for seven million years. A researcher decided to put the two together to see what would happen. What we should have here is a failure to communicate that would have resulted after their "language" evolved over millions of years. However, European and Asiatic honeybees are still able to communicate, putting into doubt the evolutionary claim that they were separated over "geologic periods." For more, see Real Science Friday at KGOV.com, Nov. 7, 2008 and Creation Magazine, September 2008 and PLoS ONE (Public Library of Science) 4 June 2008.

* Carlsbad Cavern: New Mexico, Nat'l Park Service sign said 260 MYA, then 8MYA, then 2MYA, and then they took down the sign that had claimed that formation took millions of year. On Bob Enyart's family vacation in 2005 the heard on site what you can hear from Carlsbad's official audio tour, which now states that the, "rate of formation depends on the amount of available water." See RSF 11-7-08 at KGOV.

* Lihir Gold Deposit: in Papua New Guinea, evolutionists assumed the more than 20 million ounces of gold in the Lihir reserve took millions of years to deposit, but geologists can now demonstrate that the deposit could have formed in thousands of years, or far more quickly!

* Box Canyon, Idaho: Geologists now think Box Canyon in Idaho, USA, was carved by a catastrophic flood and not slowly over millions of years with 1) huge plunge pools formed by waterfalls; 2) the almost complete removal of large basalt boulders from the canyon; 3) an eroded notch on the plateau at the top of the canyon; and 4) water scour marks on the basalt plateau leading to the canyon. Scientists calculate that the flood was so large that it could have eroded the whole canyon in as little as 35 days. Creation Magazine, Sept. – Nov. 2008 page 7 from Science 23 May 2008, pp. 1067-1070

* Mitochondrial Eve: By admittedly including chimpanzee DNA among their data, evolutionists initially calculated that Mitochondrial Eve, the one woman from whom all living humans have descended, lived as long ago as 200,000 years. But in 1998, as widely reported including by Science magazine, dropping the chimp data and using actual human mutation rates, "Eve... the mother of all living" (Gen. 3:20), was now dated as only six thousand years old! In Ann Gibbon's Science article, "Calibrating the Mitochondrial Clock," using actual measured mutation rates this peer-reviewed journal reported that if these rates have been constant, "mitochondrial Eve… would be a mere 6000 years old." See also creation.com's "A shrinking date for Eve," and Walt Brown's assessment. Expectedly, evolutionists have found a way to reject their own unbiased finding (the conclusion contrary to their self-interest) by returning to their original method of using circular reasoning, as reported in the American Journal of Human Genetics, "calibrating against recent evidence for the divergence time of humans and chimpanzees," to reset their mitochondrial clock back to 200,000 years. (See also Bob's article, Why Was Canaan Cursed?.)

* Spiral Galaxies: after their alleged billions of years the spiral arms of “pinwheel” galaxies should now be deformed, since as has been known for decades, the speed of the arms does not align with the galaxy centers, so there is “missing billions of years” of deformation in spiral galaxies. Atheistic astronomers have great difficulty even explaining where our own Moon came from, let alone the entire universe, and they admit they can’t even figure out which formed first, stars or galaxies, showing that their Big Bang theory does not merit the absolute trust that millions put in it. Thus far from being able to explain how the universe could form apart from God, they are groping in the dark. See RSF 7-25-08 at KGOV.

* Super Nova Remnants: an explosion appeared in the night sky in 1054 A.D. as a supernova remnant (SNR) in the Crab Nebula. Evolutionary scientists have measured and calculated the expected rate that stars would explode. However, if the universe is billions of years old, the vast majority of SNRs (like the Crab Nebula) that should exist, are missing! Instead, the number of SNRs corresponds well to the expected number if the universe is less than 10,000 years old, especially considering that astronomers have not found a single SNR at Stage 3 (a great diameter)! Of course, if the universe is young, there should be no State 3 SNRs! Listen to this Real Science Friday program at KGOV.com!

* Saturn’s Rings: do not show the stability predicted by their presumed 50 to 100 million year-old age, but have changed significantly since man’s first mappings. See RSF 4-10-06 at KGOV.

* Earth's Magnetic Field Reversals: Disproving any notion that magnetic reversals must occur over long periods, asdocumented by Dr. Walt Brown, Evidence Suggesting Extremely Rapid Field Variations During a Geomagnetic Reversal, Earth and Planetary Science Letters, 1989; Earth's Field Flipping Fast, New Scientist, 1992; New Evidence for Extraordinarily Rapid Change of the Geomagnetic Field During a Reversal, Nature 1995. "At one time the orientation of the earth's magnetic field changed rapidly?by up to 6 degrees per day for several days," Brown, 2008.

* Polystrate Fossils: In a thousand locations including the Fossil Cliffs of Joggins, Nova Scotia, polystrate fossils such as trees span many strata disproving the claim that the layers were deposited slowly over millions of years. See CRSQ June 2006, ICR Impact #316, and RSF 8-11-06 at KGOVArchives.org.

* Carbon-14 Found Everywhere It's Not Supposed To Be: Carbon-14 decays in only thousands of years and therefore cannot last for millions. Thus evolutionists did not expect to find C-14 EVERYWHERE it shouldn't be if the earth were old (Answers Jan - Mar 2011). Carbon-14 is found in petrified wood, coal, oil, limestone, graphite, amber, marble, dinosaur fossils, and even in supposedly billion-year-old diamonds! A secondary assumption by old-earth scientists proposed that the C-14 in diamonds (coal, etc.) must have come from C-13 and neutron capture. Calculations can falsify this claim as Dr. Jonathan Sarfati argues, for scarce crustal radioactivity could explain less than one 10,000th of the C-14 in diamonds, and similarly, there would have to be thousands of times more uranium, thorium, etc. throughtout the earth's crust everywhere that these globally dispersed materials are found.) That Mosasaur (above, shown by researchers to have original biological material and not contamination, also contained five percent modern carbon! Radiocarbon also exists even in supposedly million-year-old two-mile deep natural gas wells (CRSQ Fall 2007): "Once again, fossil gas is not carbon-14 dead. Thus, the age of the gases is on the order of thousands, not millions of years.” See RSF 3-28-08. C-14 in specimens supposedly millions or a billion years old is so ubiquitous that it is longer an anomoly. And while old-earthers had hoped they could attribute it to contamination, Dr. John Baumgardner, of Los Alamos National Labs has documented in Dec, 2010 Creation Matters that C-14 exists even in the hardest naturally-occuring, contamination-resistant substance on earth, within diamonds. The earth is young.

* Rocks Harden in Days: According to scientists at Murdoch University, experiments prove that rocks don't need eons to harden but by adding bacteria to "soft sand," they end up with "something resembling marble more than sandstone." See Science Alert and Creation Magazine, September 2010.

* Even Faster Rocks: As listed in Dec, 2010 Creation Matters, radiometric dating by Rubidium-Strontium gives a 1.3 billion year age for lava atop the Grand Canyon which would be 300 million years older than the precambrian basalt at the bottom of the canyon, as reported by Steven Austin, Ph.D. And the Potassium-Argon dating method incorrectly indicates that certain minerals hardened into stone 350,000 years ago, when in reality they solidified just recently, in 1986 at Mount St. Helens, and some of the mineral within the then ten-year old rock was wrongly dated as two million years old.

* Yikes! Millions of Years are MISSING Here: According to evolutionary geologists, there are MORE THAN 100 MILLION YEARS MISSING in the extraordinarily regular and straight layers of the Grand Canyon! Supposed geological layers entirely missing from the beautifully formed Grand Canyon strata include the Ordovician and the Silurian. The flat boundaries between strata provide hard evidence proving that millions of years of erosion DID NOT OCCUR, and that therefore, those millions of years DID NOT PASS, neither in the canyon nor anywhere on Earth, for they are an atheistic fiction.

MORE: And from a recent issue of Creation magazine as discussed on RSF:
- Fossil wood from England dated at 25,000 years by carbon-14 embedded in allegedly 183-million year old limestone
- Diamonds from Botswana carbon-14 dated at 55,000 years old mined from rock dated 2 billion years old
- Mount St. Helens rock that should date as solidifying 30 years ago but dating 350,000 to 2.8 million years old
- Mammal hair found in supposedly 100 million year old amber looks surprisingly "similar" to... modern hair
- Geologists say Uganda lava is just thousands of years ago but it's radioactively dated at 773 million years old
- How about all the biologically-formed "left-handed" amino acids in deposits claimed to be hundreds of millions of years old, which the basic laws of chemistry demonstrate would have long-ago deteriorated to a 50-50 mixture of right and left handed acids?

Here's the Point: The marine geologist's testimony of rapidly forming manganese nodules disproves the claim that hundreds of thousand of years are *required* for such growth. Of course, countless nodules can be older than the canning industry. But manganese nodule growth on a beer can undermines the credibility of old-earth scientists who make knee-jerk claims, without strong evidence, that countless geologic features (like those on Surtsey Island) take millions of years to form. And since evolutionists tend to have a zero concession policy, which is not evidence of confidence in their position, don't look for old-earthers to acknowledge that manganese nodules should now be taken off their list of evidence for an old earth.

That's as clearly as I can present the point we are making with this argument, which is very different from how you present it. Clearly, you're version of it makes it a bad argument.

Can you Jukia, at the very least, acknowledge simply what our argument is on manganese nodules?

Beryllium-10 (10Be) produced by cosmic rays shows that iron-manganese nodule growth is one of the slowest geological phenomena. It takes several million years to form one centimeter (and some are the size of potatoes).[21] Cosmic ray produced 10Be is produced by the interactions of protons and neutrons with nitrogen and oxygen. It then reaches the earth via snow or rain. Since it is reactive, it gets absorbed by detritus material, within a timespan of about 300 years- very short compared to its half-life. Thusly, 10Be is excellent for use in dating marine sediment.

In other news of not so old....I have the heathen on. History of the world in two hours is the show. Grass popped up all over the planet simultaneously. They finally got something right. Then, the monkeys came down from the trees, and stood upright to look over the tall grass. And of course they used a chimp, and not the latest "missing link". Because that would look quite silly to have that lemur stand up over tall grass.

...iron-manganese nodule growth is one of the slowest geological phenomena. It takes several million years to form one centimeter (and some are the size of potatoes)

Hi Paulos! Just as a picture's worth a thousand words, you might agree that one good experiment is worth a thousand hypotheses, and likewise with one solid observation.

Dr. John Yates observation of nodule growth on a beer can is not only inconvenient to the accepted view, but it contradicts it. On the other hand, I interviewed a geophysicist who gave an alternative explanation for the formation of manganese nodules, which explanation has the benefit of not having been disproved by observation. This geophysicist has published repeatedly in peer-reviewed journals including Nature, and is a Ph.D. scientist at one of America's most prestigious institutions. You can hear my interview by clicking on the "listen" link at http://youngearth.com/manganese-nodules.

BTW, the purpose of the example of a rapidly-formed nodule was to undermine the validity of the claims, as in your post, that they can only form slowly.

Slogan/motto:
Trust in Jesus Christ's death and resurrection to become conformed to His image.

Reputation:

November 23rd, 2012, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fool

Hi Bob!

Hello fool! Hey, I have a bad memory for such things (being a talk show host for 20 years, I interact with too many people to recall all the details I'd like to remember), but... don't you live in the Denver metro area?

Slogan/motto:
Learn to do right; seek justice.
Defend the oppressed.
Take up the cause of the fatherless;
Isaiah 1:17

Reputation:

November 23rd, 2012, 05:47 PM

Hey Bob, how about you actually WATCH that Nova show you cite for the Scablands? It wasn't one catastrophic flood, it was many times, occurring over, several thousand years. In the show, they show pictures of volcanic ash layers sandwiched between flood deposits, clear evidence of time passing between the floods. (Much like geological formations around the world.)

The entire "not so old" list is entirely based on logical fallacies. The most obvious being: "Because I don't think X substance(s) could survive for millions of years, it means these objects are not millions of years old."

This of course ignores the mountains of other evidence that plainly shows the earth is far older than 6000 years and so are all of the "not so old" objects.

For example this one:

You don't form that in 6000 years.

“We do not believe in God because we need to explain this or that feature of the world. That is what science is for. We believe in God because we see something deeper in the world, something that transcends the scientific explanations.” - Karl Giberson Ph.D.

Slogan/motto:
Learn to do right; seek justice.
Defend the oppressed.
Take up the cause of the fatherless;
Isaiah 1:17

Reputation:

November 23rd, 2012, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lighthouse

Can you prove that?

That particular spot, Siccar point is the major piece of evidence that convinced early geologists that the earth was old.

In 1788, James Hutton first understood the significance of the geological structure at Siccar Point. Although not the first unconformity he had observed, it is certainly the most spectacular. The near vertical Llandovery (Silurian) age greywackes and shales are covered unconformably by gently dipping Upper Devonian or Lower Carboniferous red breccia and sandstones.

Hutton used the locality to demonstrate the cycle of deposition, folding, erosion and further deposition that the unconformity represents. He understood the implication of unconformities in the evidence that they provided for the enormity of geological time and the antiquity of planet Earth, in contrast to the biblical teaching of the creation of the Earth.

It's simple because you have layers of rock on the bottom that clearly formed over some period of time, had to solidify for some period of time, then were turned on their side somehow, uplifted and eroded for another period of time after which more layers accumulated and the rock was then uplifted again out of the water (and suffered lots of erosion again). Leaving the coastline as it is today.

Here's a diagrammatic representation:

You can't do all of that in a single flood event, as early geologists realized. Unless you want to claim that God created the rock from scratch in that shape just to delude geologists.

“We do not believe in God because we need to explain this or that feature of the world. That is what science is for. We believe in God because we see something deeper in the world, something that transcends the scientific explanations.” - Karl Giberson Ph.D.

Slogan/motto:
Learn to do right; seek justice.
Defend the oppressed.
Take up the cause of the fatherless;
Isaiah 1:17

Reputation:

November 23rd, 2012, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lighthouse

So?

It's the YECs that want to explain all geology in terms of Noah's flood. Your explanation for said formation occuring is what?

“We do not believe in God because we need to explain this or that feature of the world. That is what science is for. We believe in God because we see something deeper in the world, something that transcends the scientific explanations.” - Karl Giberson Ph.D.