If they pick Leonard I would not be upset because I realize his talents, his game isn't full of "maybe in a few years" but he still has a lot of potential for growth. As a bonus, and as an after thought to the talent factor, he fits a need. If they go with a SF I would much rather him than Vesely. I don't think now is the time for the Raptors to be taking chances on long term projects. They have a nice little core going here and I'm all for taking the safer path this draft.

Me too, he would fit in nice with the core we already have. YGZ forever

Hopefully at some point BC will finally get it - we need players that defend, defend, defend. I think that it's pretty clear that Kawhi will be contributor right away on that front. And everything that I've seen from him shows the commitment and work ethic to build his offensive game. He's only 19. If Knight is off the board, Kawhi has to be the pick!!!

If we are going to pick someone defensive it HAS to be Bismack. His potential and readiness on D destroys anyone and everyone in this draft.

JuJu doesn't look like he is coming back, although with Triano not behind the bench the odds do seem to increase, but you'd still have to pencil him as "unlikely to return", which Kleiza not likely to be around for a good chunk of the season and weems doing d*ck all at the 3 spot, we are as thin at the SF as we are at C. Arguably thinner. I still have no idea who I would take if I was picking 5th.

"We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

Right now I would take leonard ahead of Walker. Rebounding is one of the few stats that carry's from college to the pros and having a small forward who crashes the boards can only help us. I also tend to think that we are weaker at the three right now (Kleiza is out for half the year, Weems can't defend the position, and James Johnson is still up in the air) than at the one so if all else is equal I'd draft a three. My current big board reads:

Irving
Williams
Knight
Kanter
Leonard

Going to have to disagree with the rebounding talent translating to the pros...well, not in all cases,,,Sheldon Williams, Renaldo Balkman, our own PJ Tucker and many others were beasts in the NCAA but..........

The Jermaine O'Neal trade was a calculated risk that failed because - as O'Neal has shown with 2 other teams - he has not been nor ever will be the same player as in Indiana in the early to mid 2000's. Much like the Marion trade, that was another one where it would have been nice to not include the 1st round pick.

But I digress.

*EDIT* Just realized your comment was more in agreement. Sorry if it came across defensive or argumentative.

Going to have to disagree with the rebounding talent translating to the pros...well, not in all cases,,,Sheldon Williams, Renaldo Balkman, our own PJ Tucker and many others were beasts in the NCAA but..........

It doesn't always. It's that whole idea of people having a nose for the ball. Davis, for example, is a guy that has that instinct and you can see that it easily translated to an NBA skill. Leonard, from what I gather, seems like one of those guys that is just a natural rebounder and has those abilities.

"When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
-Scudworth

I was very impressed with Leonard during his workout/interview yesterday. Wouldn't mind having him but I think the 5th pick is too high for him. If we could somehow get a 2nd pick in the 7-12 range, and he's available, I'd take him. Everything BC has done this off-season speaks to a man who is under a lot of pressure to get this rebuild project moving fast. He only has 2 seasons to show progress with this team. That's why I believe he will take the player that is most NBA ready with the 5th pick. Leonard will likely be a nice player but it will take 2-3 years to begin to see it. So, I can't see BC taking him at 5. I still think Knight or Kanter are their guys should they be available at 5. Unfortunately, I can't see them being there. I still think the draft will go like this:
1. Cleveland: Irving
2. Minny: Williams
3. Utah: Knight
4. Cleveland: Kanter
5. Toronto: Kemba Walker

BC has always loved fast PG. Kemba fits the bill and I can see him fitting in with Toronto. He can fulfill his center and SF needs via trade, free agency, or next year's draft.

The Jermaine O'Neal trade was a calculated risk that failed because - as O'Neal has shown with 2 other teams - he has not been nor ever will be the same player as in Indiana in the early to mid 2000's. Much like the Marion trade, that was another one where it would have been nice to not include the 1st round pick.

But I digress.

*EDIT* Just realized your comment was more in agreement. Sorry if it came across defensive or argumentative.

I understand what your saying about unknown/unproven players but you'd have to throw both Joe Johnson and Boris Diaw in that group.

Your right money is always spent freely with him. It's tough to find a good signing outside of Nash, Parker or Garbo that stands out as the right move or great value. I'd prefer BC to make a trade rather then a free agent signing.

Personally i wish he didn't move O'Neal until the following season where his expiring was so much more desirable to team like Miami, New York, Chicago and all other teams looking to get in on the 2010 free agency sweepstakes. Your right though if the trade went through the pick was not needed but great move by Mr.Riley.

This does not include his draft history either - some diamonds in there - big ones, too.

Touche. I guess I was referring to the Weems, Moons, Ajincas, POBs of the world. Can't really argue with his drafting. Its easy to look back four years and say the guy picked 15 spots lower turned out better and blame the drafter.

It would look pretty bad on BC to draft a SF after he traded our second round pick for Johnson. Still, if he could get a second top 10 pick Leonard would be a great pick up.

How does it look bad upgrading a position that cost us a second rounder? Did it look bad when we drafted Ed Davis after having signed Amir Johnson long term? Weems and Wright should be out the door, Linas is out till January at least, we could use a SF of the future, I am not saying we target Leonard, but I would not be too upset if we got him.

Yeah, I'm really starting to like the guy as well. I can't think of any negative words spoken against him. His biggest weakness - his jumpshot - is something he's apparently killing himself to improve and the work is paying off. Weak jumpshots are so easy to fix if you're willing to work on it. Probably the easiest skill to learn in the game. There's a fluidity to his game on offense though that's missing from Chris Singleton's game, which is why I think he's getting ranked higher than him on all the boards.

If Kanter's gone by 5, to me, it's a toss up between Walker and Leonard. I'd throw Singleton in the mix, but I can't picture any realistic scenario where he goes that high, so it's moot to really talk about him with the 5th pick.

Instead of looking to trade up, if the Raps were able to grab an extra pick at 6-8, a Walker/Leonard combo, or Kanter/Leonard combo would be a fantastic win for the Raps. And I don't think it would be that difficult to do: I still believe Bargnani would be a great fit in SAC, and I think Detroit's pick can be had as well.

One thing I like about Toronto sports fans is that they place hard workers on pedestals - regardless of whatever skill they have. Tie Domi and Reggie Evans come immediately to mind. It's probably the best intangible to respect, and having Derozan and Leonard together on the same team would win a lot of fans in the long term I think.

How does it look bad upgrading a position that cost us a second rounder? Did it look bad when we drafted Ed Davis after having signed Amir Johnson long term? Weems and Wright should be out the door, Linas is out till January at least, we could use a SF of the future, I am not saying we target Leonard, but I would not be too upset if we got him.

I wouldn't be upset with picking him up either, but public perception will be that he could have used that second round pick to fill another need. There are already a lot of people that think he should have kept the pick to draft and take a chance on a new player with potential instead of Johnson whom has been in the league for a couple of years already. Linas will be back eventually and is under contract for another 4 years if I'm not mistaken.

At a pick as high as #5 I think the Raptors have to look at something more than rebounding and perimeter defence. Individual rebounders can be found through free agency or trades. After all, Reggie Evans was an elite rebounder in the NBA last season. Team rebounding depends on coaching and a team-first attitude. Perimeter defence is important, but is not as important as defending the interior and the rim. Colangelo had this idea last year in the aborted trade for Chandler. So, I think that the Raptors should consider a good center such as Kanter or Valanciunus, before a wing player. Offensively, a PG that can break down defences and/or shoot from long-range is also key. Kemba Walker and Brandon Knight would seem to be good fits there. At #5 the Raptors should have a choice of a good PG or C, and I think they should use it. If they get another pick in the lottery, I suppose that they could go with Wing player, and Leonard might be a good fit (if his shooting picks up). But, if they are able to pick up another pick as high as #8 (from Detroit), there is a chance that they might be able to get both a PG (Walker) and C (Valanciunas or Kanter), depending on what Washington (Vesely?) and Sacramento (Fredette?). Biyombo is in some ways more intriguing than Leonard because he has the same sort of physical skills, but is bigger and can protect the paint and the rim better due to size and position.