Sucked In By Dark Souls

January 20th, 2014, 11:07

Originally Posted by JonNik
No. No books or Logs or a lot of exposition beyond what is given in the rest of the game. Once again you get the impression of what is going on there by piecing together the hints from the items and some exposition from the NPCs. No one will sit you down and tell you a story as in the rest of the game (maybe a bit more Story is fed to you in the DLC like I was saying). The locations are pretty unique and the NPCS varying and interesting, but as usual this game tells its "story" with its visual design cues (and the rest of the stuff above) rather than text.

Don't get me wrong here. I am not saying you are going to like it or suggesting to give it another try. Just explaining why I adore it

Hmm, ok.

Oh, I think I get why you and others like it so much.

I'm just looking for a reason to give it another go, and unfortunately I'm really not THAT into what you're describing.

I think the biggest problem with dark souls is that to find the choices and consequences as well as the depths requires a lot of investment and without using guides most people will never find them at all.

Spoiler

There are quite a bit of story in each area, one such example is in n blight town if you read the lore, you'll come to know how it was created, and you'll learn about the sisters, then later on you can come to encounter one of the sisters and you can keep feeding her humanity to look more and more healthy and human like, and depending on how much you feed her you can affect what help you get near the endgame.

That is the thing, little touches and stuff that most normal players will not even find in the first play-through and puzzles so hard you to read description of item very carefully and think where in the world it can fit in.

I think you haven't played long enough to notice these things DARt, almost everything has some story and an area associated with that.

DArtagnan

Originally Posted by GothicGothicness
I think the biggest problem with dark souls is that to find the choices and consequences as well as the depths requires a lot of investment and without using guides most people will never find them at all.

I agree with your comment though I wouldn't label this a 'problem.' But post game for both games (Demon's Souls and Dark Souls) I did get on the net to learn more about each game and I learned about quite a bit of content that I hadn't experienced in either game. Particularly content intended for New Game+++.

But the content along with the time it takes to get to it and experience it is just too much for me. covenants, for example, is an interesting gameplay element. But now that my character is at a point to really take advantage of the concept, I am kind of burnt out on the game, at least for now.

That said, I would NOT change this. For those people who got into this game more than I, I think this kind of content is great and adds flavor to the game after essentially 'beating' it.

I think Dark Souls handles content better than Demon's Souls. In my first playthrough of Demon's Souls I was never able to free the guy in prison in the Tower of Latria simply because I did not have a firm understanding of World Tendancy and early on botched any chance I had of completing that quest in my first playthrough. And right now, I'm too burnt out on Demon's Souls to play to the point where I could free him.

But I feel like such a quest as freeing the guy in prision should have been completable on the first playthrough. Anyway, both games are really fun I wouldn't change much of anything - something there for everyone.

-- If I'm right but there is no wife around to acknowledge it, am I still right?

That is a very critical statement and I think one of the very fundamental reasons for the popularity of Dark Souls. You almost have infinite ways of completing the game depending on your preference and play style.

This aspect and clever world design are the unique things that separate this game or this series from the crowd.

Originally Posted by TheMadGamer
I picked up Dragon's Dogma… it's quite a bit different than Dark Souls but it's turning out to be worth playing, at least so far.

Are you still enjoying it?

I really didn't like it at all when I played the demo, but I've decided to give it another chance since so many people are praising it. The demo I played was for the original version, but the revised version is supposedly rebalanced and offers additional enemies/equipment/skills etc.

Overall yes I am. I've sort of run dry on PC RPGs at the moment, waiting for some 2014 RPGs to come out - this game is fairly good though on a console.

Here's a small list of Pros and Cons about 5 to 7 hours into the game:

Pros:
*Open World
*Day/Night cycles that actually alter gameplay (tougher mobs at night, quests that can only be solved during day or night)
*Varied Combat Gear
*Lots of Items and items are combine-able as well as some items have limited shelf life
*NPC schedules
*World areas already explored are worth returning to - there always seems to be some new quest even in the starting town every time I come back to it
*Combat can be challenging - you have to be prepared and 'prepared' can mean taking into considerations several different things

Cons:
*No target selecting leaves me constantly looking for whoever I'm trying to attack - perhaps this is just a learning curve not sure
*The game would arguably play a lot better with a mouse and keyboard
*Over-use of blurring affects - I had the same issue with Two Worlds II - after about an hour I start having a dull headache
*I get quite a bit of screen tear
*Strange balance-issues - on a couple of story-fights (so far on story-fights I've been supported but NPCs other than my party), I barely did anything to the 'boss' because I don't really know what I'm doing but still win, while on run-of-the-mill enemies I get slaughtered fairly routinely. It was strange to beat the multi-headed hydra in the Encampment where I actually did ZERO damage but then get congratulated as the big hero of the fight.
*All the in-game objects you can collect are great, but micro-managing it all with a controller really stinks

These are my thoughts so far. But overall, really enjoying the game. In some ways, it is actually much more interesting than vanilla Skyrim. But I do miss the combat style of Dark Souls.

-- If I'm right but there is no wife around to acknowledge it, am I still right?

Originally Posted by JDR13
Thanks for the thoughts. Are you playing on PS3 or Xbox 360?

I'm on the PS3.

Originally Posted by JDR13
When you say that some items have have limited shelf life, do you mean that they degrade?

You know I'm not even sure if weapons/armor degrade during use I have to check that out. But I do know that food items 'spoil' if you don't use them soon enough. Food generally seems to be used to heal or restore stamina - though there may be other uses for food I haven't discovered. You can get 'air tight' containers to stop spoilage though. However, I believe there may be other uses for 'spoiled' food… though not sure yet.

Originally Posted by JDR13
About the no target selecting.. you mean that you can't switch to another enemy without unlocking from the current one, or is there no lock-on at all?

There is no lock-on whatsoever. I'm having a real hard time because of this. Turning the camera takes forever with a game controller that's why this kind of combat would be better suited to mouse and keyboard, imho. But I had a hard time with Dark Souls too (for different reasons) so I'm hoping I will adapt.

Originally Posted by JDR13
I hear you about the blur effect. I hate motion blur in games myself, and I always turn it off if it's an option. It's the most useless effect in modern gaming imo.

Yeah it's one of those things I think keeps up entire marketing departments at night until they get it into the game because it looks 'so cool.' Bleh I hate it.

-- If I'm right but there is no wife around to acknowledge it, am I still right?

DArtagnan

I found Dragon's Dogma Dark Arisen (it's not technically an expansion it is more of a 'director's cut' of sorts - sort of like Divinity 2 vs. Divinity 2: Dragon Knight Saga). You don't add the Dark Arisen content to the original game - it is a re-mastered game entirely with new balancing, items, monsters, & geography. I picked it up because it was only $19 and I had been enjoying the base game enough to pick it up.

Sidebar: Devs/Pubs need to do a better job of avoiding brand confusion - they do it all the time now with reckless abandon - marketing 101 stuff… anyhow…

Originally Posted by DArtagnan
It's not bad, but I think it's a bit too messy and "strange" for my tastes. Not focused enough and kinda bland in terms of setting. Can't quite put my finger on it, but it's not that great in my opinion.

I do agree with you that the game is 'messy' though not sure if you and I are thinking the same things. I think the pawns are nice - basically pawns are just added characters to your party that you have some control over but they are mostly driven by AI. The lore concepts and reasoning for the pawns though is a bit silly.

While being a fairly open-world RPG (go where you want when you want as long as you can survive), you have to struggle through a lengthy introduction-to-the-game process. The first time with my fighter, this was easily 2 hours. There are all sorts of tire-screeching gameplay stopping and pausing events that accumulate in machine-gun rapid succession, from the time the game starts until about after the events unfold at the nearby Encampment, that gets real irritating. Once you get through that though, the game relaxes and really opens up nicely. If they make a DD2, I'd suggest making the game get more quickly to the point where the player controls things much sooner and stops being interrupted all the time.

Since I bought the Dark Arisen version, I effectively had to start all over again. This time instead of making a fighter I chose a mage hoping that I would be able to cope with combat better. With the fighter, there is no lock-on and I spent most of my time in fights running to mobs only to have a caster in my party shoot fireball at them and launch them in some other direction - rinse and repeat - it wasn't fun.

So I'm trying a mage and having much better luck. With a mage I've found that you do get a lock-on of sorts. When you cast a spell, the computer will circle the nearest mob on-screen for you so you know which mob your spell is going to hit. You can change targets by swinging your camera to a different perspective and if a different mob is close enough, the reticle will target that mob. It's a bit clumsy (preferring Dark Souls lock-on much more) but I'm having far more success damaging mobs. With my fighter I was easily spending 80% of the fights running all over the place trying to just get close enough to hit mobs (along with the slooooowwwwww turning of the camera to see in the direction you want to see in). Now I spend 80% of fights hitting mobs while my AI fighter pawn gets in there with the melee.

Side Note: I'm curious if the vanilla version of the game includes targeting reticules for mages or if they added that in the Dark Arisen version. I don't know since I did not try playing a mage in the vanilla version of the game.

As for the setting, it is a fairly standard fantasy setting. But I really like standard fantasy settings and will likely go to my grave never getting sick of it so that doesn't really bother me.

For a console game, this RPG does quite a lot. Though far from perfect, I think this particular game is the first console-only RPG I've played in the last 33 years where I think that aside from using a controller, it feels and plays similar to PC RPGs that I like playing the most (Ultima, Gothic, TES, Divinity).

It's also the first RPG in a very long time where you can jump and climb up onto things. The only thing missing from an exploratory standpoint is the ability to swim in water - oh how I miss thee oh swimming and diving in water.

-- If I'm right but there is no wife around to acknowledge it, am I still right?

How did you find Dark Arisen for that cheap? It's $40 everywhere by me which is why I went the Ebay route, and I still paid $23 for it.

Originally Posted by TheMadGamer
It's also the first RPG in a very long time where you can jump and climb up onto things. The only thing missing from an exploratory standpoint is the ability to swim in water - oh how I miss thee oh swimming and diving in water.

Underwater areas are hugely underutilized in modern crpgs. Other than TES, I can't think of a single example since Gothic 1&2.

1

Originally Posted by JDR13
Underwater areas are hugely underutilized in modern crpgs. Other than TES, I can't think of a single example since Gothic 1&2.

And even in the latest TES game, Skyrim, exploring underwater doesn't really yield much adventure. One game that 'thrilled' me with underwater exploration was actually EQ1… working on the quest to get the Ice Comet spell… had to go under water that was frozen, and swim a good distance before drowning… and if I died it would be a tough corpse recovery.

-- If I'm right but there is no wife around to acknowledge it, am I still right?

I received my copy of DD: Dark Arisen a few days ago, but I didn't get around to playing it until today.

I created a Strider character and played for a few hours, but I didn't like him very much, and I'm pretty sure I'm going to restart as a warrior when I have the time to really get into this game. I find the aiming for bows to be pretty bad, and I agree that this game might be a lot better with mouse & keyboard controls.

Other than that, my (early) impression of Dark Arisen is better than what I got from the original Dragon's Dogma demo. The world is a lot more open than I was expecting, and exploration is quite fun. Although it's still a notch below crpgs like Gothic or Risen.

The visuals seem a little rough to me though even by PS3 standards.

Can we get a moderator to separate the Dragon's Dogma discussion starting with post #87 and create a new thread?

Originally Posted by JDR13
I received my copy of DD: Dark Arisen a few days ago, but I didn't get around to playing it until today.

Have patience with this game. Since it's a console game, settle with dedicating some time to really understanding how the controller works in combat and also understanding the menu system.

I've been playing this game now non-stop for probably the last 10 days or so - I continue to be surprised by how good it is - but almost gave up on it at first because I really can't stand controllers for RPGs, I don't like console UIs in general, and probably the biggest reason was I was having a terrible time with combat on my first toon (was a fighter) because I spent most of the time running to mobs to hit them only to have the mobs run away or be hit by a 'blast' from a pawn in my party.

Started again with the Dark Arisen version of the game, playing a mage and haven't looked back. The game world is surprisingly big. I must be at least 20 to 25 hours in and still finding new things - items, aspects of gameplay, decent enough quests and so on.

For me, the game is more fun than Skyrim. There is just much more meaning and purpose to everything in the game world. In some way, the game has the same fun factor as G1 and G2 NotR.

-- If I'm right but there is no wife around to acknowledge it, am I still right?

Originally Posted by TheMadGamer
Started again with the Dark Arisen version of the game, playing a mage and haven't looked back. The game world is surprisingly big. I must be at least 20 to 25 hours in and still finding new things - items, aspects of gameplay, decent enough quests and so on.

For me, the game is more fun than Skyrim. There is just much more meaning and purpose to everything in the game world. In some way, the game has the same fun factor as G1 and G2 NotR.

Yeah, I'm impressed by the game world as well so far.

I'm less impressed by the pawn system though. I just don't like the concept very much, and I would have preferred NPCs with personality and back-stories or solo exploration. I also think the in-game explanation for them is really lame.

I was looking at a wiki and saw that you can change to more advanced character classes later in the game. Some of the classes look pretty interesting and seem to be hybrids. i.e. fighter-mage.

Originally Posted by JDR13
I'm less impressed by the pawn system though. I just don't like the concept very much, and I would have preferred NPCs with personality and back-stories or solo exploration. I also think the in-game explanation for them is really lame.

I agree. The pawn that you create as a permanent part of your 'party' is ok… you get to micro-manage all things about that pawn which is nice. But the other two pawns just add damage and abilities - kind of boring. Would have been more fun to have 3 pawns you control in detail like the one.

Originally Posted by JDR13
I was looking at a wiki and saw that you can change to more advanced character classes later in the game. Some of the classes look pretty interesting and seem to be hybrids. i.e. fighter-mage.

Yes and 'later in the game' isn't really even that much later at all.

-- If I'm right but there is no wife around to acknowledge it, am I still right?

Can't seem to best this fellow. Falling down the floor to him already costs half my life bar, and the first hit usually does me in. Most of my issues come from when he slams his axe down and does some sort of AoE damage. Even when I am behind him it nicks me.
I've already figured out I need to be mobile, which is very… hard for me to do, to trade in mobility for armor. For some reason it rubs me the wrong way, since I am more the tank-type of guy. I've learned that lesson when fighting the Gaping Dragon… But anyway, even with the added mobility, chipping away at him is really slow, and at some point I will make a mistake and he'll get me…