Comments on: The Brewers are not happy with Nyjer Morganhttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/08/the-brewers-are-not-happy-with-nyjer-morgan/
Baseball. Baseball. And then a bit more baseball.Sun, 02 Aug 2015 23:24:58 +0000hourly1http://wordpress.com/By: Alex Khttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/08/the-brewers-are-not-happy-with-nyjer-morgan/comment-page-1/#comment-191452
Fri, 09 Sep 2011 16:20:59 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=84372#comment-191452Last word :)
]]>By: Jeff J. Sniderhttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/08/the-brewers-are-not-happy-with-nyjer-morgan/comment-page-1/#comment-191438
Fri, 09 Sep 2011 16:08:58 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=84372#comment-191438I don’t think he wanted a fistfight. I think he wanted to get Carpenter ejected. (After Gaby Sanchez destroyed him last year, I imagine he will think twice before charging a pitcher who has a 230-pound first baseman nearby.) You could hear Morgan telling the umpires after he got ejected, “He’s gotta go too,” referring to Carpenter.

And yes, I think maybe agreeing to disagree at this point is the best idea. I think Pujols did what he did to keep Carpenter in the game. I also think that no matter what Pujols’ intentions were, Morgan is more to blame, shouldering somewhere between 60% and 99% of the blame for the incident. I guess you disagree, and I will try not to let my befuddlement at that fact cause me to keep dragging out this conversation.

(It also might be easier to agree to disagree if we both didn’t feel like we had to have the last word.) :-)

]]>By: Alex Khttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/08/the-brewers-are-not-happy-with-nyjer-morgan/comment-page-1/#comment-191422
Fri, 09 Sep 2011 15:47:25 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=84372#comment-191422And by looking at past history if Morgan wanted to start a fist fight he would have just charged the mound. He’s shown he has no problem doing so.
]]>By: Alex Khttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/08/the-brewers-are-not-happy-with-nyjer-morgan/comment-page-1/#comment-191417
Fri, 09 Sep 2011 15:44:13 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=84372#comment-191417With the facts as we know them.

Morgan was acting like an asshole

Carpenter was ignoring him. There is no way he didn’t hear him yelling.

Morgan was “taking the long way” to the dugout via the third base line

Molina and the umpire were already there. Everyone else was in the dugout/bullpen

Pujols ran across the field yelling at Morgan

Morgan went towards Pujols after Albret said whatever he said

Fielder came over an dragged Morgan away – the benches/bullpens cleared

Maybe everyone would have ran on to the field anyway- we don’t know. But we do know that after he inserted himself into the situation people ran on to the field. So, yeah, he is just as much to blame for the benches clearing going by what happened. Just because he thought he had a reason to run over there it doesn’t make it right , or shift blame.

“Why is Morgan yelling and swearing and throwing his tobacco towards Carpenter? It’s been several seconds, and he’s showing no signs of letting it go. Crap, Carpenter is a hot-head, if he turns around and sees Nyjer being Nyjer, there’s a decent chance he’s going to get himself ejected, which is not what we want in the ninth inning of a 2-0 game. I need to make sure that doesn’t happen.”

If you look at it that way, I see very little blame falling on Pujols. Even in the most unlikely worst-case scenario (“Man, I hate Nyjer Morgan, I’m going to look for any excuse to start something up with him tonight. Oh look, he’s being his typical a-hole self. Wait, he threw his tobacco towards Carpenter? He’s making this WAY too easy for me to implement my secret nefarious plan to start a fight with him!”), still none of it happens if Morgan has the maturity level of anything resembling a grown man. Even in that scenario, we’re only up to about 60/40 on the Nyjer/Albert blame split. So that’s why I disagree with the “Albert is just as much to blame as Nyjer” line of thought, because even in that impossibly unlikely scenario, it’s still Morgan who started it all.

And then, again, we have to come back to reality. Show me an example of Pujols causing a bench-clearing incident. How about Morgan? Even in a vacuum, I see Morgan as the main instigator here. In the real world, for me, there’s no question.

]]>By: Alex Khttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/08/the-brewers-are-not-happy-with-nyjer-morgan/comment-page-1/#comment-191235
Fri, 09 Sep 2011 11:16:48 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=84372#comment-191235Yeah, I did misrepresent what you said, my bad. But we still disagree. I can’t understand how there is even a chance Pujols was right to insert himself in the situation and escalate it. It’s not like Morgan was going to be able to get through Molina and the ump to get to Carpenter if he decided to charge.

The only time players need to “protect” each other is when there is actually a physical confrontation. And in those times the protection needs to be pulling teammates away from the fight so they don’t get hurt doing something dumb.

As a side note I love that comic. And we would have been done long ago if you would have just admitted you were wrong :)

]]>By: mvd513http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/08/the-brewers-are-not-happy-with-nyjer-morgan/comment-page-1/#comment-191203
Fri, 09 Sep 2011 03:32:32 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=84372#comment-191203You wanna discuss immature, it was Carpenter that started it. He always has an attitude about everything. And regardless of Morgan’s maturity level, my point was that we should let him be who he is, and the fans/media/GMs should not stifle his personality.
]]>By: capsboyhttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/08/the-brewers-are-not-happy-with-nyjer-morgan/comment-page-1/#comment-191174
Fri, 09 Sep 2011 01:52:02 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=84372#comment-191174I just really hope the sport I love does not become unwatchable due to the stupid, self absorbed, look at me, don’t dis me, trash talk BS antics from its participants, (Dallas Braden I’m looking at you, among others) whether it occurs on the field or through the media. If I want the WWE I’ll watch the WWE

“Pujols’ actions are questionable.” “Pujols was protecting his pitcher from doing something that might get him ejected. Whether that is right or wrong is debatable.”

What you heard:

“running over and inserting yourself into a situation that didn’t involve you and pouring gas on it was the right thing to do.”

Obviously we disagree on the major point. Between that and the fact that you are deliberately misrepresenting what I am saying, I guess we’re done here.

]]>By: Alex Khttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/08/the-brewers-are-not-happy-with-nyjer-morgan/comment-page-1/#comment-191146
Thu, 08 Sep 2011 23:08:36 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=84372#comment-191146Last night Pujols was just as wrong. I’m saying exactly how I feel about the situation. We disagree, it happens.

It baffles me that you think running over and inserting yourself into a situation that didn’t involve you and pouring gas on it was the right thing to do.

]]>By: wildbrookiehttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/08/the-brewers-are-not-happy-with-nyjer-morgan/comment-page-1/#comment-191142
Thu, 08 Sep 2011 22:55:10 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=84372#comment-191142The only right thing to do about last night would have been to let Pujols pound Whiner Morgan while both teams watched. It is just utterly classless to call a pitcher who just totally befuddled you a P***y. Even more classless to sling a dip. He deserved to be soundly beaten. He should humble himself and thank Prince for saving his sorry ass.
]]>By: jonirocithttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/08/the-brewers-are-not-happy-with-nyjer-morgan/comment-page-1/#comment-191125
Thu, 08 Sep 2011 22:16:19 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=84372#comment-191125Guy needs to be put down . If anyone ever deserved to be knocked out it’s this douchebag . At some point his team needs to stop protecting him let him charge the mound and have a pitcher kick his ass
]]>By: Jeff J. Sniderhttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/08/the-brewers-are-not-happy-with-nyjer-morgan/comment-page-1/#comment-191113
Thu, 08 Sep 2011 21:57:42 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=84372#comment-191113Just as wrong? Really? You’ve said that several times now, but I still can’t believe that you really believe it. If you really are choosing your words correctly and you really believe that Pujols was JUST AS MUCH in the wrong as Morgan last night, I guess we’ve reached a point where we will never agree, possibly on anything.

I can respect the disagreement about whether benches would have cleared without Pujols’ actions. I strongly believe that after Morgan glaring and swearing and throwing tobacco for six or seven seconds, there’s not a lot of reason to think he was going to suddenly mature by 20 years and walk away until he got a response from someone, preferably Carpenter. You may think differently. Neither of us knows for sure.

But it’s the “just as wrong” part that baffles me.

]]>By: b7p19http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/08/the-brewers-are-not-happy-with-nyjer-morgan/comment-page-1/#comment-191107
Thu, 08 Sep 2011 21:49:59 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=84372#comment-191107Um, I was just commenting on how many times Craig said “that”. A lot of times, that is. I don’t know Pujols or Morgan, so it’s impossible for me to speak on it.
]]>By: Alex Khttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/08/the-brewers-are-not-happy-with-nyjer-morgan/comment-page-1/#comment-191094
Thu, 08 Sep 2011 21:26:56 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=84372#comment-191094Sorry to have assumed you were a Cards fan. I wouldn’t wish that on anyone. It was the way you spoke of Schumacher that made me believe you were.

And where did I absolve Morgan of anything? He is a hot-headed jerk a lot of times. I was only saying that Pujols was just as wrong. He’s not perfect.

Nobody knows what would have happened had Pujols not decided to join in the unprofessionalism. But to answer your question — I don’t think the benches would have emptied if Pujols had stayed across the diamond.

]]>By: Jeff J. Sniderhttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/08/the-brewers-are-not-happy-with-nyjer-morgan/comment-page-1/#comment-191087
Thu, 08 Sep 2011 21:12:20 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=84372#comment-191087While I acknowledged that I had no idea who you root for, you didn’t do the same. I am a Dodger fan, in which capacity I don’t give a crap. But I am also a baseball fan, and that part of me thinks Nyjer Morgan is an embarrassment. I don’t have to be a Cardinals fan to think Nyjer Morgan is an immature, petulant, childish, arrogant attention whore who thinks his stuff doesn’t stink.

Do you REALLY believe that nothing would have happened if Pujols hadn’t said something? Morgan was going to keep glaring at Carpenter until Carpenter turned around and engaged him. Pujols was protecting his pitcher from doing something that might get him ejected. Whether that is right or wrong is debatable. Whether Morgan acted like a complete douchebag is not debatable.

]]>By: Alex Khttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/08/the-brewers-are-not-happy-with-nyjer-morgan/comment-page-1/#comment-191079
Thu, 08 Sep 2011 21:03:40 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=84372#comment-191079So you don’t deny that Pujols (who Morgan said nothing to) ran over and started yelling at Morgan and had to be restrained? Was anyone else running on to the field before that? Would anyone have run on to the field if Pujols would have stayed at first and not inserted himself into the situation? We can’t answer the second question for sure, but we do know that no one was extra was coming on to the field before Pujols joined in.

Nowhere did I say that Morgan was right in his actions. He should have just walked back to the dugout. It was 100% unprofessional. But to say that Pujols didn’t escalate the situation which was calming down is the same as covering your ears, closing your eyes, and screaming LALALALA. So, yeah, he did have just as much to do with the benches clearing.

I generally like Pujols. He seems like a very good man, and he’s an all-time great baseball player. However, it doesn’t mean that everything he does is right. He was 100% wrong in this situation.

Thanks for the ad hominem about “homerism or some other ailment”. I’m actually a Cubs fan and I feel the same about both teams. You’re clearly a Cardinals fan, so I understand that you do have a dog in the fight. I’m just pointing out that Pujols was just as wrong and unprofessional to go challenge Morgan as Morgan was to yell at the pitcher.

]]>By: Jeff J. Sniderhttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/08/the-brewers-are-not-happy-with-nyjer-morgan/comment-page-1/#comment-191049
Thu, 08 Sep 2011 20:20:23 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=84372#comment-191049I don’t think anyone has an issue with Morgan’s “honesty.” I think it’s the maturity of an 11-year-old thing that people are tired of.
]]>By: mvd513http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/08/the-brewers-are-not-happy-with-nyjer-morgan/comment-page-1/#comment-191043
Thu, 08 Sep 2011 20:13:51 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=84372#comment-191043This is stupid. Why is a person not allowed to speak his mind? Why does this man’s caliber as a baseball player even matter? Albert Pujols isnt a jerk? Yeah, ok. Sure, he isnt the whiniest baby on his team, but that would be impossible with LaRussa and Carpenter around. So Nyjer Morgan has something to say about how much of a pussy one of his opponents is? Good. I want to hear it. I’m happy that somebody out there isn’t afraid to tell us the truth. People complain about the generic, watered down comments athletes give, but cant appreciate when one is actually honest with us. Thats bullshit.
]]>By: Jeff J. Sniderhttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/08/the-brewers-are-not-happy-with-nyjer-morgan/comment-page-1/#comment-191041
Thu, 08 Sep 2011 20:08:59 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=84372#comment-191041Well, Alex K, I guess we’re all entitled to our opinions, even when they are demonstrably and laughably false. Morgan IMMEDIATELY yelled “F*** you! Pu***!” at Carpenter. Morgan claims that Carpenter said something first, but he would have had to say it REALLY fast to get it out before Morgan started yelling. And Morgan’s reaction time would have to be blazing fast, too — and really, if he has that great a reaction time, he should start using it to not strike out in the ninth inning of a close game.

Pujols’ actions are questionable. Morgan’s are unquestionably unprofessional and bush league. So for you to say that “Pujols started the bench clearing just as much as Morgan did” is incorrect. When I heard the Brewers’ announcers saying it last night, I assumed it was ridiculous homerism. Not knowing your rooting interests, I don’t know if it is homerism or some other ailment that is causing you to say it.

If it was Prince Fielder and Skip Shumaker involved, the discussion would probably be something about how out-of-character it is for Shumaker to act like such an a-hole. In fact, people would probably be using the phrase, “It seems more like something Nyjer Morgan would do.”

]]>By: Alex Khttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/08/the-brewers-are-not-happy-with-nyjer-morgan/comment-page-1/#comment-191029
Thu, 08 Sep 2011 19:56:31 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=84372#comment-191029He was walking back to the bench. I’m not saying he took a direct path, but he was headed away from the field.

Pujols did start this bench clearing incident, however. He jogged over and started yelling at Morgan. If it had been Fielder running over to confront Skip Shumacker then people would be talking about how Prince threw gas on the flames or something.

And I don’t care about their histories- Pujols started the bench clearing just as much as Morgan did and he should be called out for it just the same.

]]>By: aceshigh11http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/08/the-brewers-are-not-happy-with-nyjer-morgan/comment-page-1/#comment-190989
Thu, 08 Sep 2011 18:40:59 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=84372#comment-190989If the Yankees sign Pujols, I’m just going to stop watching baseball. There’s no point if that happens.
]]>By: Jeff J. Sniderhttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/08/the-brewers-are-not-happy-with-nyjer-morgan/comment-page-1/#comment-190968
Thu, 08 Sep 2011 18:01:02 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=84372#comment-190968Minor quibble: Morgan wasn’t walking back to the bench, he was walking down the baseline glaring at Carpenter and throwing his chewing tobacco towards him. As the team leader, Pujols was within his rights to tell Morgan off and protect his pitcher. Of course, Pujols also gets the benefit of the doubt because he, unlike Morgan, has a history of NOT instigating bench-clearing brawls.
]]>By: b7p19http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/08/the-brewers-are-not-happy-with-nyjer-morgan/comment-page-1/#comment-190958
Thu, 08 Sep 2011 17:49:53 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=84372#comment-190958Wow Craig, that was a lot of “that”s. Thats cool though, we know that you like that.
]]>By: Alex Khttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/08/the-brewers-are-not-happy-with-nyjer-morgan/comment-page-1/#comment-190955
Thu, 08 Sep 2011 17:43:36 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=84372#comment-190955The thing that no one is talking about is Pujols put himself in it. Morgan didn’t say anything to Pujols, yet Albert ran over there calling for Morgan to come back. Why does he get a pass? Morgan was walking back to the bench before that.
]]>By: dsmaxsuckshttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/08/the-brewers-are-not-happy-with-nyjer-morgan/comment-page-1/#comment-190952
Thu, 08 Sep 2011 17:40:44 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=84372#comment-190952Sarcasm is funny. Alberta was a jerk last night, and if it weren’t for the presence of LaRussa we would notice what a jerk he is on a lot of other nights. And St. Louis will think so too, when they see him in a Yankees? uniform next year.
]]>By: dagnatshttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/08/the-brewers-are-not-happy-with-nyjer-morgan/comment-page-1/#comment-190944
Thu, 08 Sep 2011 17:34:36 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=84372#comment-190944this is where the slide starts…happened in nats town…plays well at first, makes an idiot out of himself, starts to play crappy…hope he doesnt negatively impact Milwaukee in the playoffs..
]]>By: Mr. Jason "El Bravo" Heywardhttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/08/the-brewers-are-not-happy-with-nyjer-morgan/comment-page-1/#comment-190936
Thu, 08 Sep 2011 17:26:46 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=84372#comment-190936I love the last sentence in this article. Literally splitting the sides of Morgan and Plush…funny and a bit scary too.
]]>By: jolink653http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/08/the-brewers-are-not-happy-with-nyjer-morgan/comment-page-1/#comment-190928
Thu, 08 Sep 2011 17:17:59 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=84372#comment-190928it’s a real shame he is a very talented player and he could be a big part of a successful team if he could just keep his mouth shut….albert pujols is not someone you want to piss off and rather than starting with chris carpenter he needs to learn to shut up walk back to the bench and if he wants to get the pitcher then he should do it at the plate with his bat rather than get into a screaming match
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