Friday, 6 May 2011

The Female Privilege Checklist

In discussions of social and legal issues, I have frequently heard feminists (and gays and lesbians and transgendered people and people of ethnic minorities and, well, pretty much any identifiable group) tell others to "check your privilege", especially in cases where other individuals offer viewpoints that differ from accepted norms.

This can be valuable advice, when it is given in good faith. We should all examine not only the ways in which we are disadvantaged, but take the time to really look at the areas in which we have advantages others do not--even when those advantages are the result of measures taken by the law and society to alleviate a disadvantage. As I told the teenage busboy at work last night when he was complaining the truck his father had given him was several years old, "You should get down on your knees and thank your dad, you ungrateful brat. You know what my teenagers get? $20 shoes and a goddamn bus pass." He was offended at first, but after he thought about it for a while, he realized just how lucky he is and actually thanked me.

However, in almost every instance I see the phrase, "check your privilege," used by a member of a group that is considered to be disadvantaged, it is used to convey victim status in relation to the dissenter, and to shut down all discussion other than that which confirms the group's beliefs. Moreover, they will often insist that because they are disenfranchised by virtue of their membership in the group, there is no way they could also hold privilege due to their membership in the same group. This is so not the case.

Privilege is largely about the real-world consequences of stereotyping and prejudice. Stereotyping and prejudice may be disfavored as a way of determining the true characteristics of a given individual, and thus be a "bad thing"...but at the same time, they don't always result in negatives for the people stereotyped, and when they result in positive effects, many are entirely prepared to take advantage of their privilege. Consider: Asians are likely to be assumed to be bad drivers = negative effect on individuals. Conversely: Asians are likely to be assumed to be good at tech and math = positive effect for individuals in certain contexts, such as when s/he is applying for jobs in these areas.

And while privilege is a complicated thing--affluent, white, straight, well-educated, able-bodied males being "at the top" in most contexts, middle class black males inhabiting a huge gray zone with upper class, white gay males somewhere down the privilege ladder, and mixed race, overweight, disabled, poor, uneducated, transgendered lesbians stuck right at the very bottom...well, it all gets complicated when you start considering just who has more advantages and disadvantages than whom.

It's a contest these days, and to hear people talk, everyone's vying for the prized spot at the very, very, very bottom. Discussions of race, class, sexuality, gender and gender identity, disability, economic status, education level, all seem to devolve into a bizarre exercise in "one-downmanship", where everyone clamors that they are a more victimy victim than everyone else.

But some things really are black and white--at least they seem so. When considering things like male/female gender privilege, you need only consider the bilateral--that is, how does one play out in relation to the other? That is, what privileges do men enjoy solely due to their gender that women of similar economic class, education level, race, able-bodiedness, sexual orientation, etc etc, do not?

And conversely--and contrary to what many feminists believe--what privileges do women enjoy that men do not, all other things being equal? I was asked by a feminist to provide a list, and I did. She dismissed it as a "failed experiment." But I wonder what all of you might think of my female privilege checklist. Feel free to suggest more in the comments, if you think of any--I'll update the list as necessary.

Women are requested to consider whether they can answer "yes" to these questions:

1) People are likely to assume I am a warm and empathetic person.

2) People are likely to assist me when I must perform a physically arduous task.

3) If my car breaks down or I am otherwise in distress, people will be more likely to stop and help me.

4) If I am being physically assaulted, no matter the gender of my assailant, it is more likely that passersby will intervene.

5) People are likely to assume I am a competent parent, unless and until I prove otherwise.

6) People are more likely to respect my right to be offended by inappropriate or impolite behavior.

7) If I yell, people are not likely to believe I am going to hurt them.

8) Dress codes in the workplace and in leisure contexts are more likely to allow me to choose clothing that emphasize my most attractive features and minimize those I am unhappy with.

9) I am allowed by society to wear make-up to make myself more attractive without anyone questioning my sexual orientation. I am given a large social leeway in the kinds of hairstyles I can choose that will flatter my facial features.

10) If I work in a profession that is dominated by the opposite gender, people are likely to see it as "heroic", or a sign of social progress, rather than that I am deficient in some way.

11) If I show weakness, the first response of most people will be to console or help me, not criticize me, ignore me, or dismiss me as pathetic.

12) I am not expected to make the "first move" when meeting members of the opposite sex for the purposes of dating.

13) Members of the opposite gender are expected to make the first move; therefore, it is less likely I will be sexually rejected by those I come into close contact with in a dating context.

14) I am not expected to spend a significant portion of my yearly income on a token that accompanies a marriage proposal.

15) I am less likely to be expected to spend a significant amount of money on gifts, tokens, and activities during courtship and dating.

16) If I am having dinner with a member of the opposite gender in a dating context, and I do not reach for the check, people are unlikely to assume I am cheap.

17) If I am having dinner with a member of the opposite gender in a non-dating context, and I do not reach for the check, people are still unlikely to assume I am cheap.

18) If I earn less than my partner, no one will look at me funny.

19) If I earn nothing and my partner supports me, no one will look at me funny.

20) If I am unemployed and my partner is supporting me, people other than my partner are unlikely to pressure me because I am "not trying hard enough" to find employment.

21) If I earn less than my partner, people are unlikely to expect me to contribute equally to our living expenses.

22) If I am skilled in activities/hobbies that are commonly attributed to the opposite gender (kick boxing, operating power tools, shingling a roof, knitting, scrap-booking, floral arranging), people will see me as admirable. No one is likely to think I am a weirdo or wonder if I'm gay.

23) If I am completing a task with a member of the opposite gender, it will be expected that they take the greater physical burden--such as carrying the heavier boxes.

24) If I cry or am hurt, men and women are unlikely to tell me to "suck it up".

25) If I choose to stay at home with my children while my partner works, people are unlikely to think I am a deadbeat, unskilled, or shirking my responsibility to my family.

26) If I choose discontinue, temporarily leave, or reduce my participation in a high-status career in order to spend time at home caring for children, people are likely to consider it a "noble sacrifice" rather than a waste of my talents.

27) If I work and have a family, my employer will be less likely to require me to work overtime or bring work home with me. This will be the case even if I equally share domestic duties with my partner, or have outside domestic help (housekeeper, nanny).

28) If an employer claims to have "non-sexist" hiring policies, I can assume this to mean that members of my gender will be more likely to be hired, rather than less.

29) If I choose a career in early childhood or elementary level education, or volunteer to work with youth, no one will wonder if it's because I am a pedophile. They will trust me, even if they are aware that members of my own gender can and sometimes do use these positions to facilitate their sexual abuse of children.

30) If I commit a crime against children, even before details come out, people are likely to want to believe I have been falsely accused, was "failed by the system", or was somehow "driven to it" by factors outside my control (such as mental illness, poverty, lack of social services, childhood abuse), because members of my gender "just don't do stuff like that". It is unlikely they will automatically attribute my actions to unprovoked aggression or hold me entirely responsible for them.

31) If I am a victim of domestic violence, there are many services in my community that will help people of my gender. It is unlikely I will be denied services based on my gender.

32) If my partner physically abuses me, I will be believed by the authorities. Their belief will not depend on whether I have physical signs of injury.

33) If I physically abuse my partner, people--including the authorities and victim's services personnel--are likely to assume it was in self defence. Even if I tell them I hit first and my partner is non-violent, they are likely to wonder if my partner did something to instigate the assault, like cheating on me, yelling at me, or otherwise provoking me to lose control.

34) If I physically abuse my partner, and they reciprocate, they are as likely or more likely to be the one arrested as I am, even if my partner's reciprocation was in self-defence.

35) If my partner physically abuses me, and I reciprocate--even if I admit my reciprocation was not in self-defence but out of anger--it is unlikely that I will be arrested.

36) If I am divorced, and my ex-partner earns more than I do, it is more likely I will be awarded spousal support, even if am employed and self-supporting, than if our positions were reversed.

37) If I am divorced, the default assumption in the family court system is that I will have primary custody of my children. This will be the case, even if my ex-partner and I shared breadwinning and childcare duties roughly equally during the marriage.

38) If my ex-partner sues me for custody, they are unlikely to be as successful as I would be were our positions reversed. The burden will be on them to prove I am an unfit parent, rather than that they are more fit, before this likelihood tips in their favor.

39) If I am divorced, I will in almost every case be awarded child support. If my ex-partner does not abide by the terms of the custody/child support order, they will face legal consequences as serious as a prison sentence. They will face these consequences even if their reason for not paying is that their financial situation has changed since the marriage. They will face these consequences even if I do not fulfill my own legal obligations spelled out in the custody order to permit or facilitate their access to my children--my right to distance myself from my ex-partner is likely to take precedence over my children's right to involvement with their non-custodial parent.

40) If I am divorced and my partner is awarded primary custody of my children, I will only rarely be required to pay child support, even if I can afford it. If I am required to pay child support and I do not, for whatever reason, it is unlikely that I will face any legal consequences.

41) If I abuse the legal process during my divorce by obtaining a fraudulent temporary restraining order, misrepresenting my financial status, hiding assets, or otherwise perjuring myself, it is very unlikely I will be charged with a crime. In fact, my abuse of the legal process--even after it has been discovered by the court--is likely to benefit me in matters such as custody. Moreover, "the good of the children" will be treated as a reason to not penalize me monetarily--such as by reducing my share of joint assets.

42) If my ex-partner abuses the legal process in the above ways, they are more likely to be penalized criminally by being charged, or monetarily through reduction of their share of our joint assets.

43) If I have consensual sex with my partner and we are both underage, and a charge of statutory rape is filed, I will never be the one charged. This will be the case even if I pressured my partner to have sex and they objected.

44) If I am raped by a member of the opposite gender, and I am not below the age of consent, no one will tell me such a crime does not exist.

45) If I am raped by a member of the opposite gender, knowledgeable members of the medical and criminal justice communities are unlikely to consider my body's involuntary and automatic responses to sexual stimuli as "proof" that I gave consent.

46) If I am the victim of a statutory rape committed by a member of the opposite gender, and it results in a pregnancy, I will have a choice as to what my parental responsibilities to that child will be. I will not be legally required to be financially responsible for a child that results if I have been raped by an adult.

ETA:

47) irregardless of my parents' culture or religion or any small beneficial side-effects, I am protected by the law from any genital cutting until I am an adult and request it for myself. If I have been cut, my peers will universally agree that I have been a victim of a heinous crime.

48) I can openly state a sexual preference for members of the opposite gender who had significant portions of their genitals removed at birth, and not immediately be called out as crazy by most of society. I can request a sexual partner who has not been cut to become cut for me, and that partner would most likely not immediately leave me.

49) I can cite my own sexual preference for members of the opposite gender who had significant portions of their genitals removed at birth as the sole reason for requesting the same done to my newborn child, and my child's doctor will comply without arguing with me or reporting me to the police. My health insurance will even pay for it.

50) It would be career suicide for a doctor or politician to recommend cutting off significant portions of my genitals to reduce the chance of catching STDs or having other medical problems with my genitals.

51) There's little debate as to whether or not cutting my gender's genitals is bad.

***Please, if anyone wants to add more items, just let me know in the comments, like Beanie Appa did. This list is a work in progress. :)

When I proffered some of the second half of this list in an online discussion, one feminist scoffed, "Women's privilege is exclusively when we are raped, physically abused, or divorced? Wow, lucky me."

What feminists--and many groups claiming disadvantage in whatever area--don't seem to consider is that privilege is an inherently oppositional and proportional concept. In order for men, for instance, to have male privilege in a specific context, it requires that women's disadvantage in that context be in opposition in relation to that privilege. If everyone had equal status under the law and in the eyes of society in relation to each other, even if our circumstances were terrible, no one would be more privileged or disadvantaged than anyone else, right? Privilege of one group requires the disadvantage of another. And when you have gender privilege, it is the other gender that is, perforce, disadvantaged.

Feminists of today still see the wage gap as a serious problem that needs to be dealt with. Feminists believe that the wage gap is a product of sexism in the workplace and unfair social expectations placed on women. The more libertarian view is that it is largely the result of women's choices in regard to work-life and home-life, and that most choices involve prioritizing one thing over another, even if we may desire and value both equally. But whatever you believe, the wage gap has been narrowing and will continue to narrow, because feminists decades ago believed it was a problem, and other people believed them and did something about it.

Feminists may scoff that it's no great shakes to have gender privilege when they are being victimized, raped, beaten or going through the difficult and emotionally devastating process of negotiating custody agreements. I find it quite alarming that they don't seem to be able to look at the situation from the other side. That female privilege, by the very nature of what privilege is, lies in direct, proportional opposition to male disenfranchisement in these very same areas. The greater the female privilege, the greater the male disenfranchisement. And female privilege in these particular areas--sexual assault, domestic violence, divorce and child custody--is HUGE. And in some areas, it's only going to get huger as due process in rape cases erodes at the behest of feminists.

So in these areas where lives are often shattered, where people suffer enormous physical and emotional pain, where their relationships with their partners are dissolved and their lives turned upside down, and the their relationships with their children under threat, where they are charged with crimes or are the victims of them--where they are going through an already horrible experience--these are the very areas where men suffer the greatest disenfranchisement in our society. Way, way, way up at the beginning of the post, I mentioned privilege in regard to an Asian applying for a tech job. It's foolish to think that if he beat out a black or white candidate who was better qualified for the job, even if he knows it's due to stereotyping and the privilege that derives from that, that he will he will take the boss aside and say, "Hey, you know, I think that other guy is actually better than me. Just because I'm Asian doesn't mean I'm great at fixing computers. You should probably hire him instead." The more of a positive effect a privilege has on an individual, the less they are inclined to give it up.

And in horrible situations, like divorce, DV or rape, how likely is any individual to say, "Hey, I think you're making your judgments of the situation based on gender privilege. I'd like you to be more fair to the man I say raped me and respect his due process rights"? How likely is an individual to say, "Well judge, you know, I realize everyone assumes mothers should get custody, and as a feminist I find that stereotypes based on socially constructed gender norms are harmful. So I'd like you to forget all that, even if it means I may lose custody of my children"? How likely is an individual to say, "Listen officer, I actually hit first. Arrest me too, please"?

Individuals take advantage of their own privilege. They do. And they do it all the more when the stakes are very, very high. Feminists--hell, all women--would be advised to consider what it would be like were the gender privilege reversed in these situations, if they suffered the same level of disenfranchisement men currently suffer in cases of rape, DV, and family law.

If women were assumed by the authorities to be making it up when they make a claim of rape, and predisposed to believe the accuser if they themselves were charged; if women were assumed to always be the aggressor in domestic violence situations and treated accordingly by the law, and if women were turned away from shelters because those shelters only serve DV victims of the opposite gender; if the family court system tore children from their mothers because the default assumption was that custody should go to the father and your rights as a parent--even a weekend one--didn't matter to anyone... ?

If women suffered this obscene and unconscionable level of disenfranchisement in these terrible and potentially life-destroying situations, and weighed it against the current wage gap, which would feminists consider the bigger problem?

90 comments:

Celda here from reddit. Just wanted to say I've been reading your blog regularly since you started and greatly enjoy the posts.

I quite liked this one, however would you consider addressing the feminist argument that female privilege does not exist because all advantages come from "benevolent sexism"?

My personal take (though of course your own may be different) is that it doesn't matter the reason why injustice occurs, the fact that it does is more important.

In other words, suppose we agree that the advantages / privileges women are afforded is due to benevolent sexism, or due to global warming, or due to the position of the constellations, or whatever reason. Does that mean that these privileges are acceptable and justified?

No it does not, just like feminists would not accept the argument that male privilege is fine no matter what the reasons behind it was. They would still insist that male privilege is unacceptable regardless of whatever the reason was.

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The disenfranchisement of men is also a product of sexism. Sexism means discrimination by sex. One can discriminate *for* as well as against, right? It's still discrimination.

What else is male privilege other than benevolent sexism? And you're right, it doesn't matter two fucking shits what justification lies behind anyone's privilege--it could be freaky mind rays sent from Mars for all I care. It's still wrong.

The problem as I see it is that the concept of Patriarchy mimics so elegantly the (generalization--of course there are exceptions) natural, mostly biological gender differences between men and women. Yet it presents a completely inaccurate causation for those differences. And while to some extent those differences are social conditioning, the greater portion--I believe--derive from our hardware, not our software. And now that women have free reign over sexual selection and can select mates their hardware, rather than their software, lead them to--well, gender differences that are the culmination of millennia of evolution aren't going anywhere. So the concept of Patriarchy isn't going to be going away no matter how much social engineering is done, either. It will be seen to be stronger than ever, a social pathology that must be cured at all costs.

"And now that women have free reign over sexual selection and can select mates their hardware, rather than their software, lead them to--well, gender differences that are the culmination of millennia of evolution aren't going anywhere."

Can you explain what you mean by this? I agree with most of the rest of your comment, but don't understand this.

Read up on Game and you may understand. Women tend to sexually select for the very traits feminism describes as a pathology--aggression, insensitivity, risk-taking behaviors and even thuggishness. Think of all the action heroes, athletes, UFC fighters, that women consider sexy and would give their eye teeth to go to bed with. All the things that would make for great hunters/protectors and whose genes would make offspring healthy and likely to survive--when we lived in caves.

We have a very easy existence compared to that of the vast majority of our evolution. There's no natural outlet for the "masculinity of the cave" in today's world, and these traits are often problematic for species perpetuation in a society organized the way ours is. But most women are still hot over muscle-bound guys with facial scars and attitudes, aren't they? Aggression is fucking sexy. Alpha is hot.

And now women have sex with anyone they want. They don't have the whole virgin-til-marriage constraint put on them, or a host of family members making their mating decisions for them through arranged marriages. Women are free to reproduce with the most aggressive men if they choose to, and more and more of them will, because that's what their hardwiring--based on millions of years in the cave with only a few hundred years of relative ease--is telling them to do.

So the masculine traits feminism detests and calls Patriarchy are destined to thrive.

Hi, I stumbled across this blog from reddit today. I would add a female privilege that I would like to see males receive, and some follow-ons that hopefully reinforce the absurdity:

47) irregardless of my parents' culture or religion or any small beneficial side-effects, I am protected by the law from any genital cutting until I am an adult and request it for myself. If I have been cut, my peers will universally agree that I have been a victim of a heinous crime.

48) I can openly state a sexual preference for members of the opposite gender who had significant portions of their genitals removed at birth, and not immediately be called out as crazy by most of society. I can request a sexual partner who has not been cut to become cut for me, and that partner would most likely not immediately leave me.

49) I can cite my own sexual preference for members of the opposite gender who had significant portions of their genitals removed at birth as the sole reason for requesting the same done to my newborn child, and my child's doctor will comply without arguing with me or reporting me to the police. My health insurance will even pay for it.

50) It would be career suicide for a doctor or politician to recommend cutting off significant portions of my genitals to reduce the chance of catching STDs or having other medical problems with my genitals.

51) There's little debate as to whether or not cutting my gender's genitals is bad.

Obviously, I hate male circumcision enough to seek out debate on the internet. I can tell you, it drives me nuts when someone tries to argue "female circumcision is worse!". So what? Does that mean male circumcision isn't a problem or somehow ok because it hurts less? Females are protected by law, but weren't getting cut by the masses in USA, anyway.

For me, the biggest problem in male circumcision is the cognitive dissonance where people of all walks of life can oppose female and support male circumcision in the same breath.

The doctor circumcised you because your parents paid them to. And I think your parents would have done it because they thought it was the right thing to do. I am circumcised but I'm not angry about it. I don't know anything different. But my son was not circumcised because we couldn't see a need. As I get older, I realize now that it is as wrong as female circumcision. (Excellent checklist GWW!)

Let us all be Muslims and allow Shari'a law to be the law of the land. Yes it may not address some of our grievances, but the alternative is getting worse by the second.

Its your choice. Let the Tyranny of Matriarchy destroy our lives and regress men to nothing more than walking dildos (much to the delight of xiiau, Robyn and others) or allow actual equality between men and women to the point it is more or less universally tolerated within that culture at the cost of some prevailing freedoms we might otherwise wish to retain.

The choice is yours and just pretend you are a Jedi or something. To most Sunnis, Allah is nothing more than the Force from Star Wars. Most of us like the original 3 episodes made in the 70s and 80s. So why not?

All you have to do is follow the five tenants or pillars to be a Muslim and I believe that is doable for a Christian or an Atheist. So there is a way to indoctrinate Shari'a law in our society so we can end this shit. I mean making it a choice really, but it is a choice you have to live with and it is a choice feminists have to take seriously, which they probably won't.

1) Allah is the one god and Muhammad is his prophet.

Okay how to make this Christian. Allah is the Arabic word for God and Muhammad is an Apostle of Jesus similar to Paul. How to make this acceptable to Atheism. Allah is the Force from Star Wars, which we can reflect as synonymously with Wisdom or Logic rather than with an actual entity, since most Muslims don't believe Allah is an entity, just something necessary for existence like logic found in science or wisdom found in rational understanding of anything. Just call that Allah. It doesn't matter. It is an Arabic word, it has no meaning in English. LOL! Make it your own definition for it in the language we use. Just put it into terms that can allow us to live alongside Muslims as Muslims in our own retrospect of how we wish to live our own lives, that way we can end feminism without ending ourselves in the process.

2) Pray five times a day. This one is difficult. Not difficult for Christians, since Christians just need to pray before they go to bed, each time to eat one of the three meals of the days and just perhaps add one when they wake up. There we go, five times a day. For Atheists, this is really tricky. We would have to consider something like prayer but isn't prayer. Perhaps exercise and meditation instead. Meditation to clear your thoughts that you are praying to something that doesn't exist and exercise to cleanse the nerves in your body, so you can continue being atheistic with a healthy atheistic point on life for each day of your life. To a Muslim given it is explain in the context that you are doing so what your define as Allah (Logic or Wisdom) as that word does not exist in our language (English) and therefore we are free to define it whatever we want it to be nor does it properly exist in Islam as anything at all. Again, in Islam, Allah really is no different from the Force and force from Stars Wars is really just Intergalactic Wisdom. So... is it really impossible for an atheist to be a Muslim? No. It isn't. Because by saying Allah isn't a person and since all deities before Islam were people, it makes Allah not a god, but something used in place of a god, like Rational Thinking or Logic or Wisdom. Take your pick.

3) Giving at least 2.5% of one’s savings to the poor and needy. That is acceptable for any Christian or Atheist. Or at least it should be.

4) Fasting and self-control during the blessed month of Ramadan. This would be difficult. Ramadan is worked by the Islamic calender, which is entirely based off numerical representation rather than helio-lunar-centric representation.

And no one likes fastening. The only way I could explain it is by having less food eaten which would decrease obesity and increase the extent of food we can donate to the hungry. We can simply put it, if you are will off allow an extent of a month's period of time to only have two solid meals (breakfast and a late dinner) so what you would have had during the middle of the day would instead be provided as food donated to less off people. Again charity.

5) Pilgrimage to Mecca at least once in a lifetime if he/she is able to. Most of us are not able to visit Mecca, so we don't have a problem. But if we were able to do so, then we should do so to take advantage of what else we could obtain like Business opportunities with Saudis or tourism. That is all we need to treat it as if we are Christian or Atheist. That way it is satisfied and doesn't go against what we define as ourselves.

Yes, these are changes we would have to make, but they doing so in this context, can you really say it is really that bad or really that difficult for you to do? I don't think so.

Plus we just have to do these five things. I mean I consider it easy for us to do and we don't even have to read to Quran, learn Arabic, or do anything of the sort. Just add these five activities in your life and we are set on our way to just tweaking society to end the madness of matriarchal tyranny before it bites us where the sun don't shine.

From my own experience; male circumcision is still justified because a huge percentage of males DON'T WASH THEMSELVES. It's just gross. Under the foreskin is this cheesy stuff. So I totally understand why parents just have it done, because they don't want to deal with the uncomfortable issue of discussing with their son the subject of if he washed his penis including under his foreskin on a regular basis. No, it's not right. But I understand.

Deb B Tell you what, seeing as you don't wash your hair, I will have your head shaved for you, and your follicles scalded so you can never grow hair back. I mean, it's just gross. You'll get split ends and you obviously can't be trusted to wash it yourself. Also, it's far too icky and uncomfortable to talk about lice. It's just the logical thing to do. I hear the guys like gnarly chicks!

I suppose even in all my arguments concerning MGM, I never really connected that the attitude toward FGM really IS a privilege. Which is kind of stoopid on my part, so I'll correct it posthaste. Thanks for bringing it to my attention!

52. If I am heterosexual, If I refuse sexual intercourse with a person of the opposite sex, neither my sexual orientation nor my gender identity will be called into question by my potential partner nor by my peers.

Thanks so much, I expect you'll get a tremendous load of shit for pointing out obvious flaws, and "feminists" will say that you're trying to be "not one of THOSE women".

but you're succinct and on top of the fucking game.

You seem to understand what it means to display your power as an individual, odd that it would come through the opposition to an ideology which supposedly is still all about your empowerment? but in the current climate, understandable.

Hopefully humans will devise a system which respects the innate differences between the sexes (genders, orientations, it all flows from the same place) without creating directly violent (through the state or otherwise) opposition between them. The struggle is how to create a competitive system which respects natural differences while still allowing for an individuals right to self determination.

A lot of it has to do with realizing that the tables really have been turned against men, all of the things you listed were the initial issues which feminists fought to change over the past few centuries(specifically culminating in the 60's, towards todays near parity), so now that the balls in their court, do they perpetuate the same problems but with reversed genders? or do they genuinely try to create a new structure which respects all people?

I'm hoping for the latter, and an era of mutual respect.

thanks again, I hope they don't ostracize you to the point of madness, it is a common tactic, stay strong and know that peace comes to the peacemakers.

Incredibly interesting stuff here. I've been getting at a lot of what you've been getting at for the past few years, but I think you've articulated a lot of it better than I have. You've also exhibited the dedication necessary to put a blog about it together. Then again, you're not a man, so you don't have to deal with women throwing shoes at you for saying this kind of thing. ;)

As regards women sexually rewarding precisely the traits feminism decries as pathology, I'm personally really interested in the way feminism itself has blunderingly encouraged these traits. I think the problem boils down to the fact that the sort of guys who bother to listen to feminism (that is, guys who, by virtue of genetics or upbringing, actually have some ethical sensibility that involves a desire to do right by others, including women) are in fact being made remarkably unattractive by its ideology. When you grow up with liberal feminist ideals in mind and begin to approach sexuality with this notion that the way you engage socially/sexually with women will automatically and inherently end up being a process that victimizes them, and that you're destined to violate women at every turn simply because you're male, you tend to become neurotic about it, and this doesn't help you develop the sort of traits that, (by virtue of biology or conditioning), women tend to be attracted to: confidence, assertiveness, ability to stand up for oneself and others, etc.

On the flipside, the kind of guys who ignore everything feminism says are sexually rewarded for doing so. When you're trying to do the right thing and you see all these guys who aren't being rewarded for it, you're either going to become embittered, or you're going to abandon discourses about gender equality in favor of whatever works (sociopathic PUA culture and the like - it always seems like PUA is logic without ethics and feminism is ethics without logic; it's like PUA is feminism's necessary obscene supplement).

As a result of all this, women get more used to interacting sexually with guys who don't really give a shit about what women think or how they feel, because, early on especially, these are the kinds of guys who haven't been paralyzed by feminist "wisdom." These are the kinds of guys who are more frequently capable of being assertive, asking girls out, and projecting confidence. That is, women (and especially young women and girls) frequently end up dating assholes, and the more women date assholes from puberty on, the more frequently violence against women (whether physical or emotional) becomes normalized and eroticized. I don't think we can underestimate the debt BDSM owes to feminism.

A good friend of mine was a quiet guy in high school, even though he was a brilliant comedian. He was mostly ignored by girls. One day, a couple years after graduation, he put on some Kanye West sunglasses and went to a party and went around saying "bitches ain't shit but hoes and tricks" to every girl there. He made out with three girls that night - more than he ever had up to that point. A couple years later he had a girlfriend who had kids (not his) and when everyone else was out partying on Halloween, he took them trick or treating. They broke up, and nowadays he likes to joke with me about how he thinks women should be rounded up and put into camps so we can "take it all back" (and essentially revert to the old "Patriarchy"). He's only joking of course, but the fact that his reactionary, fascist joke rings true indicates there's something very wrong with the hegemonic approach to gender and sexuality in this culture.

So the point is not that you necessarily have to be an asshole to be attractive to women. The point is that if you're not an asshole, you're far more likely to pay attention to feminism and thereby learn to be unnatractive to women in the name of doing right by women; that this unattractiveness is very difficult to unlearn; and that, within these coordinates, becoming an asshole is not a bad route to easy sexual enjoyment.

We need to start organizing a new discourse of gender equality that empowers both men and women if we're ever going to work through this thing and keep society afloat. It's a radically new situation we're in. With so many other problems at the doorstep, it's a lot to take on. Here's hoping there's still time.

Anyway, I'm rambling at a complete stranger on a blog and it's 6:00 in the morning. Happy New Years. Keep fighting the good fight.

One thing to keep in mind is that one person's privilege is another person's oppression. When it comes to hair-styling, makeup, and fashion, for instance, women not only have the option, but the *expectation* of looking beautiful - which can be quite burdensome depending on which individual you're talking about.

It cuts both ways though. One of the "male privileges" that feminists harp on about, for instance, is how men can be sluts and women can't. Which is true, and it's great for men who like to sleep around, but it sucks for men who have more conservative preferences and face a choice between having casual sex (even if they're uncomfortable with it) or being branded as a loser.

And I'll add one to the list (although this is heavily qualified):

If I have sex, get pregnant, and obtain an abortion, even most conservative Christians will likely only think of me as helpless and confused, whereas if a man has sex, gets a woman pregnant, and leaves her, he's almost universally regarded as a loathsome deadbeat.

I could not agree more with this one at all. This is the specific one I was looking for. And this goes hand in hand with "If I have sexually harassed a coworker of the opposite gender, I am less likely to receive punishment for it than if our roles were reversed."

Also, "Making crude or sexual jokes at the workplace is not likely to cause coworkers of the opposite gender to complain about sexual harassment to my supervisor."

To be fair, these may not be true generally, but have been true in my personal experiences.

I thought of a few you might want to add. I wrote them from the "female" perspective to make it easier. Some of these may be questionable but all involve lived experiences and things I've witnessed/perceived:

"If a male expresses verbal anger toward or heated disagreement with me, I am much more likely to have people, male and female alike, leap to my defense regardless of context."

"I get to set the rules for good manners. In almost all social situations, it is assumed that whatever I declare to be impolite or socially unacceptable will be accepted by others to be impolite and socially unacceptable. Arguing with me about it makes them look like assholes."

"If I am cruel and verbally abusive to members of the opposite gender, I am likely to have people assume I am automatically in the right."

"If I find myself homeless on the streets, there will be services available for me within days if not hours to get me shelter and food."

"If I reject someone's sexual advances, I may do so with public mocking and cruelty and will be cheered on by many if I do so."

"If I am female and attracted to other females, most people will not react with the revulsion that they will toward two males sexually attracted to each other."

"If I find myself in an online argument with a member of the opposite sex, and the argument turns to personal attacks, numerous individuals will jump in to attack my opponent, even if I was the one who started with the personal attacks. Sometimes people who weren't even part of the original argument will show up because I'm a woman being 'attacked.'"

"If I am mean and nasty, some individuals may call me names like 'bitch' or 'cunt' but others will praise me simply because I'm female and I am expressing power, whether my expression of power is fair and just or not."

"I can never be forced to serve in the military."

"I will not only get to demand special hiring preferences to address perceived injustices in my chosen work field, but, once I get into, I can fully expect everyone to change their behavior to conform to my sensibilities and my demands for what is and is not socially acceptable."

I don't have the time to word them into points to fit the article yet, but there are the matters of:

1) Accusations of rape are likely to be believed without any kind of evidence at all. Even if the man isn't convicted, it will completely ruin his reputation and damage his job prospects. Occasionally, men will suffer legal consequences, or even go to jail for decades, in a case where there is no evidence but the woman's word against his. Two more of these cases very recently came to light.

2) Meanwhile, the accusation of rape being proven false almost never results in any kind of penalty or consequence for the woman because it would "discourage reports of real rape"

3) Women have the right to withhold the genetic identity of their children. Past a certain point, if a father believes he is not the real father of his child and requests a test, it is fully the mother's right to deny it and that's that.

4) If the father does eventually find out that the child is definitely not his, it wont relieve him of paying child support. The position of the court is always "he should have figured that out earlier" and he'll be stuck paying for some other guy's kid for the next 1X years.

I have all the power to decide whether a pregnancy becomes an abortion or a baby. No one can ever make me have a child or be responsible for it and no one can make me lose a potential child through an abortion. I do not have to tell the father about pregnancy. The government will pay for my abortion. If instead I choose to go ahead the government will pay court fees to commit the father to 18 years of child support on my behalf through the public embarrassment of garnished wages and to put him in jail if he cannot afford the terms handed to him. I won't ever have to even worry about it being personal or require my participation, the entirety of it will be done on my behalf. I will never have to worry about the opposite in any of this.

Hotels and guest houses will permit a woman to access a man's bedroom if she shows a piece of finger jewellery. (Sometimes they will check her identity.)

Women are allowed to marry men.

Widows have extensive inheritance rights on death of a husband.

On marriage a woman can take her husband's family name.

On marriage a woman is granted a right to live at her husband's dwelling.

On marriage a woman is granted a right to sleep and have sex in her husband's bed, even when he is staying with his parents.

A woman's children born after a wedding are legally presumed to be her husband's legitimate offspring. Unlike his mistresses children, they inherit his family name and have property inheritance rights.

Wives frequently have the privilege of being covered by their husband's health insurance and pension.

At formal dinners wives are invited.

Utility companies and shops will accept a wife as the formal representative of her husband. This was more important in the past when women could not get loans.

the base problem with the list, how it's working in attractive women case, and basically use the all of "bad" stereotypes, what make women/lgbt people to fight to right privileges.

i want go on the most of question:

1, my answer is no. people never thinking about how i'am a warm & empathetic person. Anyway, if a woman who show herself like that kind of woman, but she not, then she would be a manipulate asshole (steretypes). If she not, so she truly warm and empathetic, then back to the social roles, how a woman would be like to acting.

2, my answer is again no, cause im not attractive, even i'am not be less woman like other. have boobs, woman face "weaker" physical condition.

4, it's basicly true, but this base on how women be more weak so easly attacking them, so in all attention kind of this, main part against to women.

5, it's a bad stereotype cause if you answer no when they are question, then people reaction is be pity you and want press in you that role: "oh and when you will have the little child? oh not say how you not want! all women want children, so im pretty sure it will be change in time"

6, no, and again only for attractive women

7, no (luckly) cause if other peaple not want "belive" how i want hurting them it's mean not handle me equaly level. like how a parents not believe all of mean words of their kids

8,9: cause for womens who attractive, anyway nobody questioning sexual orientation, cuase everybody thinking how you are a hetero woman.

10, it's yes, but how that dominated place by opposite gender, it's mean woman needwork 2x, or 3x hard how they more or less handle the woman equealy (for less money)

11 yes cause you woman and be weak is belong to your nature

12 no women not expected, but need do, cause that kind of man is start be rare like the white raven

and more and more similar problems with the other question. i see what wanted with the questions, but they are like when somebody want see some good in the shit happens.

With regard to #22:"22) If I am skilled in activities/hobbies that are commonly attributed to the opposite gender (kick boxing, operating power tools, shingling a roof, knitting, scrap-booking, floral arranging), people will see me as admirable. No one is likely to think I am a weirdo or wonder if I'm gay."

I have also noticed that men are even ridiculed for having certain stereotypically masculine interests or traits. Over the years, I have seen men accused of having tiny penises for being interested in motorcycles, firearms and hunting, sports cars, weight lifting, and even for growing a large beard. A rather obnoxious woman once diagnosed me with "short man syndrome" for having a muscular build and driving a large pick up truck (which I use, sometimes overloaded, to haul logs for my firewood business). To top it off, I am only 2 centimeters shorter than the average North American man, placing me pretty damn close to the middle of the bell curve.

Just getting caught up on your previous post and videos. I was in an abusive relationship for 8 years and stayed in because I was afraid I would lose my son. She didn't disappointment me when I finally had enough and left. Because of women's privilege I have spent the past 7 years in family court trying to help my son who has spent 5 years in counseling due to his mom. It has cost me financially to the point of ruin twice. Even though my son's complaints were of physical abuse by the hand of her new boyfriend I have lost family, friends, and countless other things in the past 7 years. I have given everything in some small hope my son will have a good life.

Very interesting stuff here. Many seem to be deep into these issues of equality and the differences between genders .... and of course the big one .... what is fair.

I have given some thought to these issues, but not a lot. My view of them is similar to my view of most things. It all comes down to the choices we make and how we choose to behave and live our own lives.

If you don't like your gig ... quit and get another one.If you don't have the skills for the one you want ... figure out how to get them,If you don't like the person you are with ,,,, get out and get someone else.We choose .... therefore we are responsible .... no whining ... that's freedom and are fortunate to live in countries that allow it ... many do not and historically most didn't.

I know this may sound simplistic, but the choices we make are paramount in what happens to us in our lives. Life is not always fair, if it was we would all be bored to death. It is in our nature to compete, to be challenged, to win some and to lose some. To feel bad then to feel good. That is called living, much better than existing in a contrived regulated Utopia where committees decide what is fair.

Men and women are different and we are attracted to different things. Most men don't want to be nurses and most women don't want to be machinists. Sooooo we each pursue what fits and we all benefit from that variety. It's a natural thing.

Modernity has made live easier for both genders in our western world and that has allowed more time for self actualization and also to ponder what's fair what's not and to look around for what me might envy. That is a downside to our expanded leisure and our ability to share vast amounts of information.

When TV came to the third world, They saw how we lived here .... the developed world was suddenly place to park envy and even contempt. The same sort of contempt that President Obama is displaying in his desire to rob the 'rich' to pay the poor in his class war. A result of his father's hatred for colonial Britain in Kenya. He want revenge and he's getting it. It was a 'dream from his father'.

In our society ... naturally some of the envy will be between the genders. That is describe above in spades ... most of it is petty, but even those petty grievances can lead to disastrous results once both sides are at war over them.

We are a flawed species for sure, but there is so much to live for and to be grateful for, that I just wish all the sociologists and psychologists would just shut the fuck up and let people live their lives without the coaching and refereeing and stick all their studies that cause discontent in their collective asses. We need a lot more engineers and a lot fewer gender academics.

If you are female and incompetent, and have a male boss, you are less likely to be criticized and will probably receive both help and a supportive attitude whereas if you were male in the same situation you would be receive negative feedback ranging from being mocked all the way up to being fired.

The same applies if you make a social gaff. The workplace is much less forgiving of errors and incompetence by women than it is by men.

Also sexually harassment by female bosses is almost never dealt with and if you are being harassed or abused by a man hating radical feminist boss you might as well just quit as HR will not take your claim serious nor will they act. This is something I have observed personally.

Also, if when a boss tells a female worker that her work product is unacceptable, she can turn the tables on the boss by crying and HR will actually make the boss apologize for "being mean". Again, true story happened to me.

52) If I join the military (which is entirely my choice since I'm not eligible to be drafted), it will very likely be in a non-combat capacity. Even if I am in a combat zone, it likely be in a support capacity. If I get pregnant while on active duty, the military will move mountains to accommodate me, up to and including letting me out of my obligation.

I'm sorry, but I see much of this list as a very spun version of not privileges, but patronized treatment of women. Patronizing women and not expecting the same out of them because they aren't expected by society to be able to complete the same tasks is not privilege. It's sexism at its most obvious.

"People are likely to assume I am a warm and empathetic person."

This has to do with our culture's obsession with motherhood and painting women as perfect mothers, caretakers, etc. At the same time, those qualities are put down and insulted while qualities associated with hardworking men are not. I've heard a lot of "get back in the kitchen!" or "barefoot and pregnant" jokes, but no jokes about how pathetic it is when a man earns a hard living for his family.

"I am not expected to make the "first move" when meeting members of the opposite sex for the purposes of dating."

This should be continued, "But when I do, I may be seen as desperate". Have you ever seen the episode of Family Guy where Meg asks a guy out and Lois makes fun of her for it? Yeah, definitely not a privilege that women are seen as pathetic in a situation like that. The idea that this power is entirely in the man's hands is *not* a privilege.

You also tackle many points about rape in this list."If I am raped by a member of the opposite gender, knowledgeable members of the medical and criminal justice communities are unlikely to consider my body's involuntary and automatic responses to sexual stimuli as "proof" that I gave consent."

I agree, the lack of care for male rape victims is disgusting. But it's an effect of benevolent sexism; the idea that 'how in the world could a woman overpower a man?'. That is misogyny, not misandry. I agree that it's a terrible thing to happen to men, but you're pointing out the wrong root of the problem.

If you'd like I'd point out more of what I see in this list, but not being sure if you'll read it I don't want to continue writing. Let me know if you're interested in more of my thoughts.

You have expanded one of these privileges in the form of: 'I am not expected to do x', to say 'but if I do it has negative consequences'.

Privileges on the male list include: 'The grooming regimen expected of me is relatively cheap and consumes little time' and 'I will never be expected to change my name upon marriage or questioned if I don’t change my name'. Both of these can have a 'but if I do...' added to demonstrate how they are not really privileges but disadvantages - in your view.

And I disagree that it's benevolent sexism that leads to a lack of care for male rape victims. In my view, it's not so much that a woman couldn't overpower a man, but a man wouldn't refuse an opportunity for sex. It's an assumption of a lack of emotional power from the man far more than a lack of physical power from the woman.

"And in horrible situations, like...rape, how likely is any individual to say, 'Hey, I think you're making your judgments of the situation based on gender privilege. I'd like you to be more fair to the man I say raped me and respect his due process rights'?"

Terrible and offensive analogy. You basically said that it's a privilege for women to have the court of law's sympathy based on gender after being raped. What kind of privilege is this that one must first be raped in order to enjoy it?

"What kind of privilege is this that one must first be raped in order to enjoy it?"

Except there's no assumption that the person must be raped. Being believed during an accusation of rape, or having the burden of proof largely eroded and the onus on the accused, can help victims, but also false accusers.

Not true, woodstock - one must either be raped *or* be a rapist to enjoy that particular privilege. See point 44 & 45.

And I'd like to point out that the male privilege checklist includes, among other things, 'If I'm never promoted, it's not because of my sex' and ' If I’m not conventionally attractive, the disadvantages are relatively small and easy to ignore.' These are also privileges that depend on one to be suffering in some way in order to enjoy, aren't they?

Here's one for your list:If I comment that a member of the opposite gender is sexually attractive to me and I express my desire in a hyperbolic, semi-violent way (e.g. "I'd like to f his brains out"), I'm unlikely to be viewed as threatening or predatory.

Oh, and another:If a television show is made about the sexual conquests of someone of my gender, it's more likely to be a happy comedy instead of a brooding character portrait of a psychologically or emotionally stunted individual.

I find this list fascinating. I love GWW's videos. I'm also quite pleased that there's no name calling - name calling is a sure sign that the caller has lost the argument/discussion.

Seems to me that parts of the discussion have run aground on male/female privilege in a social context. I suspect that's pretty much hard wired, so we can complain about it, but it's not going to change.

Where we should be changing things are when the government is involved. It's morally wrong for the government to pick one gender over another.

If all these things come to pass I will get a sentence that is a fraction of what the opposite sex would have gotten for the same crime and background.

The prettier and younger I am the better the result will likely be for all of the above.

The only way I might get comparable treatment to a male is if my victim is also female. Ergo. female victims are given greater priority than the opposite sex.

I have 100% unilateral control over reproductive choices. Not even the federal government can force me to become a parent.

I have 100% unilateral power to force men to become fathers and force both men and the government to support all my offspring.

If I sabotage birth control to cause pregnancy I cannot be charged with rape or sexual assault/battery.

If I have sex with someone who is drunk I can't be charged with rape.

If I have sex with someone who is unconscious I won't be charged with rape.

If I have rape children the newspapers will write that I "had a sexual relationship." When I rape it's a "relationship." When the opposite sex rapes it's "RAPE."

If the news reports that I committed domestic violence they will rarely ever use the words "domestic violence."

If a member of my gender is the victim of serious domestic violence media will report sympathetically and without making jokes. They will also likely post hotline numbers so that other members of my gender can get help.

I cannot be forced to fight for my country and no one will shame me if I am reluctant or refuse.

I cannot be forced to sign up for the draft. Should I not sign up there will be no legal or social penalties.

If I choose to join the military I cannot be forced into a combat role or even a combat support role.

If I choose to join the military I will have one-tenth the risk of injury and death as men. I will have to pass lower standards, carry lighter loads, and run shorter distances at slower times. I will not have to cut my hair. For all this, I will still get equal pay.

If I choose to join the military but decide I do not want to be deployed I can deliberately disable my body by getting pregnant and no matter where in the world I am the military will make special arrangements, at great expense, to transport me home where I can be re-assigned to light duties. Once there I can abort and keep my new position. I can do all this without being subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice the way a man might.

If I am angry at a man, need an alibi, need attention, I can claim to have been raped. My lie can send a man to prison for decades but this would not be considered a crime. The only crime I might be charged with is filing a false police report, which is a misdemeanor, or perjury. However, I don't actually have to testify in court and the misdemeanor is usually a fine.

If I've lied about rape in the past I will be protected by rape shield laws should I choose to lie again. My victims will not be able to defend themselves with the truth that I am a known liar until my current lie is disproved.

If I have an advantage over the opposite sex society will laud me for it rather than trying to neutralize it.

If I fail at something no one will call me a loser. Instead, I'm a victim.

I will never be called a loser because this is dehumanizing language. My gender has status because of my ability to reproduce. Therefore, it does not compute that I can become less than that. In other words, I will always have status and position just because I exist.

If there are career fields that I am interested in which weaknesses specific to my gender disqualify me for, I can demand that the standards be lowered to accommodate me. Even if this endangers those who are forced to work with me.

If I think segregation benefits me then I can request it without penalty.

If I think integration benefits me I can demand it regardless of who it harms.

Even though the Supreme Court has denounced "separate but equal," I can insist on it for sports. In doing so I can demand an equal number of sports teams and facilities for my gender even though women's sports is highly unprofitable and resulted in the loss of 4 athletic opportunities for men for every 1 I get.

I have the luxury of both claiming to be equal or just as good as the opposite sex when it benefits me and decrying my weakness and inadequacy and rarely will people question these competing beliefs.

No matter how powerful I am, how much money I have, how much control over my life and circumstances, if I say I am a victim people will believe me.

I expect the opposite sex to defer to me even while I ruthlessly compete against them.

I have the luxury of denouncing domestic violence and declaring there are no excuses for it, but laughing hysterically when horrible acts of domestic violence and mutilation are committed against men.

If my gender is the focus of violence in a movie then that movie will almost always be a drama or horror film. An action movie, in which people delight in the deaths of hundreds of people will never make my gender the primary victims.

I own my own reproductive monopoly. With this, I can extort the opposite sex for money, gifts, services, protection, or violence committed against others by offering access.

I can form groups, organizations, clubs, and businesses for the express and exclusive benefit of women and not be called sexist.

Members of my gender pay lower car insurance rates even though we have more accidents per mile driven. The reason the opposite sex pays more is because they drive more (carting us around) and are more likely to work in high risk professions like police, fire, truck driving, EMT.

Even though my gender consumed 2 out of every 3 dollars spent on healthcare, I will pay the same as a man.

I will outlive men by 6 to 14 years depending on their race. I will be able to start collecting social security years before they can.

My gender has no obligations to the opposite sex which are enforced by law or social contract. Yet, I can demand outrageous obligations from the opposite sex knowing I have to give nothing in return or even if I have ruthlessly betrayed them.

If a gunman opens fire in a crowded theater, a plane lands on the Hudson, or a ship goes down in the ocean I can expect the opposite sex to protect me. I have no obligation to return the favor, be grateful, or be ashamed of my cowardice.

As a disfigured woman, I can safely say that most of the social privileges in the above checklist which are written up as examples of female privilege are actually examples of beauty privilege passing undetected presumably because the author is an unwitting beneficiary herself, and secondly because most of the posters seem to be men, who, unsurprisingly, are eager to agree with the idea that women have it easier.Not all women are given these societal perks by a long shot and I feel it is tremendously unfair to attribute all of this privilege to women in general, as that implies that women who are disfigured, old, or simply young but not beautiful/decent looking haven't even come under the radar as human beings! Yowch! I mean, if they had, there is simply no way this list would have been considered "female privileges" as opposed to "privileges of being a female who is average looking or better". Now that it's been established that these perks apply mostly to those women with beauty privilege, it must also be admitted that good-looking men benefit from beauty privilege as well- not to so great an extent but it's definitely, most certainly there. If you don't think handsome men are treated much better by society than ugly women (who are generally treated as if they are guilty of some kind of crime) you would be badly mistaken! So to recap, I do not see how, for many, people there is any innate socially conferred privilege in being a woman (other than avoiding the draft). There is an indisputable privilege, however, in being a good-looking person of either gender which results in preferential treatment by society that fairly often goes undetected or is miss-attributed to other factors (good work ethic, intelligence, charm or *wink,wink* gender) until said hot person loses their looks as a result of age or accident.

What you write is correct - the "beautiful" people tend to get a pass. However, our legal system is heavily stacked against men. Just consider divorce laws and how lopsided treatment of rape charges are.

Women as a group have also gotten workplace rules bent to their liking. I blame the corruption of the government for all of these problems. Without government intervention these issues would sort themselves out.

Hi Karen, I have just written the first of three articles about this [Abuse and violence towards men] and other men's issues on www.liberalamerica.com.

Please visit and read the article. The next 2 are Men's roles within society, what exactly are we supposed to be and how are we supposed to behave?

Also a female privilege checklist : ). The first article is here: http://www.liberalamerica.org/2014/07/17/enough-its-time-to-stop-ignoring-domestic-violence-against-men/ I hope some of you will read it and the following articles.

It's a good start at a list but I think some it is quite petty. Not irrelevant but small potatoes.

I'm quite surprised that no one has brought up the fact that men are 50% more likely to be victims of some type of assault (all types of violent assault, sexual and otherwise) yet all we hear about are how women are too scared to walk the streets at night.

The gender gap in life expectancy. If this was only due to hormones/genetics the gap would be relatively even between industrialized countries. It isn't. A lot of it is from the risk taking and dangerous activities we encourage men and boys to participate in.

Men are 4x more likely to be the victim of homicide and ~5x more likely to commit suicide.

The 9:1 m/f imbalance in the prison population. This 9:1 ratio is fairly consistent between the black and white populations who make up the two largest cohorts in the prison system.

Selective Service and the huge imbalance in battlefield casualties in the military. If Israel can have an integrated military so can we.

Pugilistic sports - boxing, MMA, NFL, hockey, etc. It's encouraged brutality that is detrimental to the health of the athletes.

The high mortality rate from non-communicable diseases such as cancer or heart disease . . . because of a culture that insists that men are not vulnerable and that takes them less seriously when they're sick.

In this culture women are precious and that's belittling and constricting and in some cases it could lead other people to view them as a type of property that one has dominion over. On the other hand, in this culture, men are interchangeable and ultimately disposable and that's not only profoundly alienating it also has deadly consequences.

A friend just sent this to me; although you say this is what anti-feminism looks like, I would argue that this is exactly what feminism looks like. It's looking at things from a perspective that is outside of the patriarchal norm. It's looking at the effects of society on men and women and finding ways to create equality for both. That is feminism.

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#1. Are there any female privileges that offer us independence or leadership opportunities?

#2. Are there any female privileges that are not given to us by men (and are meerly circumstantial)?

You have a heafty list there, but I think people are missing the bigger picture. It's not a privilege to stay at home when you have to ask permission to buy toilet paper because you're a secondary dependant. It would be a privilege to be seen as the most valuable in the work force so I could be independent and not have to constantly ask permission.

#1. Are there any female privileges that offer us independence or leadership opportunities?

#2. Are there any female privileges that are not given to us by men (and are meerly circumstantial)?

You have a heafty list there, but I think people are missing the bigger picture. It's not a privilege to stay at home when you have to ask permission to buy toilet paper because you're a secondary dependant. It would be a privilege to be seen as the most valuable in the work force so I could be independent and not have to constantly ask permission.

#1. Yes, at least if you live in a civilized country (i'm gonna assume you live in a western country because of your PP), but i would call it more basic human rights than female privilege. From your wording it sounds like your implying that only men have the ability to be independent and/or achieve leadership positions.

#2. Yes and no, seeing that aren't all privileges circumstantial. Privileges happen because of the people in a society (not one gender), they aren't some fixed natural law, you could apply this question to men and male privileges as well and in both cases you wouldn't get any wiser of it imo.

For your stay at home argument, i'm gonna say that not all stay at home women (and men) have to ask permission for stuff like that, at least not in a healthy relationship.

As for your final sentence, you can do all of this as a woman, i've personally firsthand seen women and indirectly know of valuable women in the work force. At this point it also isn't a privilege, but something you achieved.

In the end, what this article is saying is not that every woman has every privilege on this list applied to them in their life, but it's saying that the women (and other groups of people) who won't acknowledge their own privilege are highly arrogant and dishonest, when those same people do shout male privilege as some sort of all-encompassing VIP card for life that all men have.

Post by Unknown on Sept 21. Your entire post is such bollocks. I know so many women who think everything male is wrong. Who want boys growing up as girls who think everything patriarchal is wrong.

Men have so few choices, the pressure just being a man is so high. Why do you think suicides are so one sided? Women have everything and the inequality is so huge now. Women don't want equality (they have that already). Women want more. All animals are equal but pigs are more equal than others.

We are at a point where simply being male is wrong. Where male traits are wrong. Why do you think MGTOW is growing so fast. Their meetings are attacked and firebombed by women. All MGTOW is men saying, enough, we don't want or need you (females) we can manage and live quite happily without you. Even this is wrong. It is impossible being a male now. A woman just has to say you touched her and you are history and even if proved innocent you you are forever tainted. Did the women in WWI giving out white feathers want equality? You have made it wrong simply being make. The inequality is massive, but women are still hard done by. Shaun

I had struggle relationship with my husband in the past which led to divorce with my first husband. After i and my ex husband got divorced, i had another chance to re-marry again and just 5 years of my second marriage there was another divorce which almost killed me emotionally. I stayed for another two years been unmarried and a single mother. Honestly I wasn't really happy it because every woman need a man in her life, there was a time i saw my first husbands photo and i realized how much i loved him and have missed him. I tried to get to him but i was told that he moved on with his life and we may never been together again. I wept bitterly that night thinking i have lost the man that i have had so much love for. I asked for advise on what to do and a friend of mine gave me a contact of Osasu Solution Temple, i consulted him and to his very best with his powerful spells he helped me with a Reunion Marriage Love Spell to returned my ex husband back to me, in just 9 days i had enchanter with a spiritual reunion prayers with priest Osasu everything turn around for good in my life, I am now happily living with my first husband again and sort out the divorce issues. with the help of Osasu temple, his a man of wisdom and care. Thanks and i appreciate all the help you have rendered to get my ex husband back into my life again. I testify here today that Osasu temple is powerful it can resolve all problem in a broken relationship with love once. contact him for solutions to any kind of relationship problem. Email....(drosasu25@gmail.com) You can also call him or add him on WhatsApp +2347064365391

HOW DR. UNEME brought back my ex lover unemespellben@gmail.comAm DONNA, am from UK. After been in a relationship with my Boyfriend for 1 year now and we were planning to get married soon and all of a sudden he left me for another girl. of a truth, I really love this guy and never can I imagine life without him. I further tried all my best to get him back but all my effort to get him back in my life did not work out. It was on this faithful day, I came across some Testimonies on a website about this great spell caster called (Dr. UNEME) any persons claimed that he help them to renew their relationship and bring their ex lover back, I had to contact him because he was my last hope. I contacted him through his email and he assured me that in three days time my boyfriend is going to leave the other girl and come back to me and it was a very great surprise to see my boyfriend coming back to me after three days the spell was done. I am so very happy today that he came back to me and i achieved this with the help of Dr UNEME I equally want to use this opportunity to Tell/Advice to as many who need their ex back, if you need his help you can Contact him throughEMAIL: unemespellben@gmail.com WHATSAPP HIM @ +2348143813120

HOW DR. UNEME brought back my ex lover unemespellben@gmail.comAm DONNA, am from UK. After been in a relationship with my Boyfriend for 1 year now and we were planning to get married soon and all of a sudden he left me for another girl. of a truth, I really love this guy and never can I imagine life without him. I further tried all my best to get him back but all my effort to get him back in my life did not work out. It was on this faithful day, I came across some Testimonies on a website about this great spell caster called (Dr. UNEME) any persons claimed that he help them to renew their relationship and bring their ex lover back, I had to contact him because he was my last hope. I contacted him through his email and he assured me that in three days time my boyfriend is going to leave the other girl and come back to me and it was a very great surprise to see my boyfriend coming back to me after three days the spell was done. I am so very happy today that he came back to me and i achieved this with the help of Dr UNEME I equally want to use this opportunity to Tell/Advice to as many who need their ex back, if you need his help you can Contact him throughEMAIL: unemespellben@gmail.com WHATSAPP HIM @ +2348143813120

HOW DR. UNEME brought back my ex lover unemespellben@gmail.comAm DONNA, am from UK. After been in a relationship with my Boyfriend for 1 year now and we were planning to get married soon and all of a sudden he left me for another girl. of a truth, I really love this guy and never can I imagine life without him. I further tried all my best to get him back but all my effort to get him back in my life did not work out. It was on this faithful day, I came across some Testimonies on a website about this great spell caster called (Dr. UNEME) any persons claimed that he help them to renew their relationship and bring their ex lover back, I had to contact him because he was my last hope. I contacted him through his email and he assured me that in three days time my boyfriend is going to leave the other girl and come back to me and it was a very great surprise to see my boyfriend coming back to me after three days the spell was done. I am so very happy today that he came back to me and i achieved this with the help of Dr UNEME I equally want to use this opportunity to Tell/Advice to as many who need their ex back, if you need his help you can Contact him throughEMAIL: unemespellben@gmail.com WHATSAPP HIM @ +2348143813120

I’m so excited because my broken marriage has been restored & my husband is back after he left me and our 2 kids for another woman. After 8 years of marriage, me and my husband has been into one quarrel or the other until he finally left me and moved to California to be with another woman. i felt my life was over and my kids thought they would never see their father again. i tried to be strong just for the kids but i could not control the pains that torments my heart, my heart was filled with sorrows and pains because i was really in love with my husband. Every day and night i think of him and always wish he would come back to me, I was really upset and i needed help, so i searched for help online and I came across a website that suggested that DR.Osasu can help get ex back fast. So, I felt I should give him a try. I contacted him and he told me what to do and i did it then he did a (Love spell) for me. 28 hours later, my husband really called me and told me that he miss me and the kids so much, So Amazing!! So that was how he came back that same day,with lots of love and joy,and he apologized for his mistake,and for the pain he caused me and the kids. Then from that day,our Marriage was now stronger than how it were before,All thanks to DR.Osasu . he is so powerful and i decided to share my story on the internet that DR.Osasu real and powerful spell caster who i will always pray to live long to help his children in the time of trouble, if you are here and you need your Ex back or your husband moved to another woman, do not cry anymore, contact this powerful spell caster now. Here’s his contact: Email him at:Account:drosasu25@gmail.com , you can also call him or add him on Whats-app: +2347064365391,THANKS TO DR. Osasu

I’m so excited because my broken marriage has been restored & my husband is back after he left me and our 2 kids for another woman. After 8 years of marriage, me and my husband has been into one quarrel or the other until he finally left me and moved to California to be with another woman. i felt my life was over and my kids thought they would never see their father again. i tried to be strong just for the kids but i could not control the pains that torments my heart, my heart was filled with sorrows and pains because i was really in love with my husband. Every day and night i think of him and always wish he would come back to me, I was really upset and i needed help, so i searched for help online and I came across a website that suggested that DR.Osasu can help get ex back fast. So, I felt I should give him a try. I contacted him and he told me what to do and i did it then he did a (Love spell) for me. 28 hours later, my husband really called me and told me that he miss me and the kids so much, So Amazing!! So that was how he came back that same day,with lots of love and joy,and he apologized for his mistake,and for the pain he caused me and the kids. Then from that day,our Marriage was now stronger than how it were before,All thanks to DR.Osasu . he is so powerful and i decided to share my story on the internet that DR.Osasu real and powerful spell caster who i will always pray to live long to help his children in the time of trouble, if you are here and you need your Ex back or your husband moved to another woman, do not cry anymore, contact this powerful spell caster now. Here’s his contact: Email him at:Account:drosasu25@gmail.com , you can also call him or add him on Whats-app: +2347064365391,THANKS TO DR. Osasu

All comments are welcome here. I refuse to censor points of view that differ from my own.

I recognize that I may be challenging the deep-seated beliefs of some people, and perhaps stirring up emotions in others. However, I would ask:

- if you care to respond to anything that I have said, please do not simply link to or quote some statistic. Do not simply regurgitate things you have been told are true. Think about what I am saying. Respond with an argument. Offer something from your personal observations, and explain to me how you feel your statistic is connected to your experience.

- If you wish to be part of a discussion, try not to dismiss what I or a another commenter says out of hand. Yes, that means that some lines of thought or ideologies may not stand up to scrutiny (perhaps even my own).

- Remember, ad hominem attacks diminish everyone involved. If you want to criticize anything, do so passionately and directly - but debate is about attacking ideas, not people.