Say what you will, it can be extremely entertaining reading. Herewith, the first installment:

Re: Let's Get the Tier 2 Schools Back on the Report!!Posted by: SH is a septic tankDate: February 25, 2007 01:02PM

Seton Hall placement is downright AWFUL. Hardly anyone had jobs at graduation and the gutter NJ ID firms pay in the 40s and to add insult to injury require a NJ Traffic Court clerkship before they look at you. SH is also a cool 35 K a year, and the administration are lowlife, lying scum like the "Valvoline Dean," Pat Hobbes. Of course, there are those whopping FIVE SH alums at Skadden that Hobbes likes to braf about in his admission brochure, all of whom had Ivy undergrads and got jobs there back in the 1980s.People who graduated SH with high honors like Coif & law review still got toilet jobs in ID, I know a guy who was Summa who is making a whopping 75 K at some toilet ID firm in NJ, and another magna grad who is ambulance chasing at some gutter PI firm in NYC. Something about SH just repels and repulses employers, the only people with anything close to "real" jobs (like McCarter English) got them thru family conncections, not grades or OCI.The majority of SH grads go right into NJ Traffic Court clerkships where they fetch coffee for the illterate, far-left political hacks that pass for judges in this corrupt cesspool of a state. These gigs pay a cool 38 K and last one year. When these crappy gigs end it's off to the ID or ambulance chasing salt mines for a lifetime of garbage man pay, long hours, and crappy benefits while paying massive loans so that the "Valvoline Dean" and his cronies can buy an extra Mercedes and con the next generation of hapless losers into attending that "school."

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Last edited by dssinc on Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I grauduated in 2005 too and work at an NYC toilet firm making crap, & I didn't have bad grades at all. I know top 10% kids from 2005 SH making less than 70 K at NJ ID toilet "firms". SH is really a T-3 school, it has a crappy reputation and is seen as a "country club" school for ultra-rich North Jersey families to send their lazy, spoiled, borderline retarded children who crapped the LSAT to so they can have a "law degree" (if you can call an SH degree a legitimate law degree which is questionable).

anyone paying 35 K to that septic tank cesspool of a "school" needs medical attention for brain damage. dean hobbs is an oilcan, he is a lazy, shiftless greaseball who'd be rolling back odometers as a used car salesman or bilking old ladies out of their SS checks if he wasn't cooking up an ever better scam sending young people into a lifetime of crushing, life-destroying debt for a degree worth less than a GED or locksmithing certificate.

and my personal favorite (for its tiny, yet perfect humanity)

Re: Let's Get the Tier 2 Schools Back on the Report!!Posted by: The PirateDate: February 25, 2007 04:57PM

Seton Hall is really not that bad. It's just kinda weird that being in the top 25-30% I am one of only 4% of students without a job. Come on kids - with that 96% employment rate your chances of ending up like me are slim to none. Sorry, I have to go, my wife is calling me a "@#$%& loser who can't support his family" for the seventh time today.

A stunningly useful thread on Jdjive where a bigshot boutique lawyer and a just folks lawyer from Texas counsel a recent law graduate on career initiation.

You can almost hear the sweat dripping off the law grad as he realizes that he is interacting with someone who can make his dreams come true. In the middle of the exchange, the boutique lawyer throws in the towel, perceiving that the kid isn't interested in hard work. He comes back to the thread in the end, tho with no joy to give.

Being a good lawyer is hard work. Law school is just the beginning. If you're not thirsting to learn all you can, whether you litigate or do transactional work, in your early years, you're in the wrong profession.

The latest installment from jdjive: a soberingly straightforward look at the internal economics of a firm...

Re: Does this make sense: A corporate paralegal getting paid more than a bar-licensed attorney?Posted by: M&A LawyerDate: February 26, 2007 09:08AM

It all comes down to what clients will pay for -- after all, what attorneys and paralegals are paid is a function of what a firm can bill (and collect) for their time.

Large clients, who see large bills for major transactional and even general corporate matters get testy if there are too many of those associate hours at $300-450/hr, especially on routine work (the kind that associates used to do 30 years ago to learn the trade). The appreciate the fact that paralegals, especially at the big firms, are usually just as bright as the associates, but haven't been to law school (yet - many of them at biglaw firms are bright young things from the ivies and little ivies who are trying to figure out if they want to go to law school - 25 years ago they were almost all from the 7 sisters and looking for lawyer husbands). So, when the clients see paralegal time, they think they're getting a good deal.

On the other hand, many lawyers don't work for firms whose clients have deep pockets and (or, if they do) aren't willing or able to pay very high rates for the work the lawyers are doing for them.

In big law, the old rule of thumb was 1/3 of an associates salary covered overhead (including secretaries), 1/3 paid the associate, and 1/3 was profit for the partners. If a client will pay $300 an hour for a new associates time, and the new associate's time is billed and collected at 2000 hours (a lot of very junior associate time is written off), that's $600,000 revenue. Since overhead is now greater with higher rents and technology costs, perhaps 40%-45%, then there's at most $360,000 to pay the associate and the partners. Since the partners won't keep less than 1/3 ($200,000) there's your $160,000 salary for the young Hahvahd lassie.

The paralegal, a guy who graduated from Vasser and wants to go to law school, bills 2200 hours at $150 an hour and brings the firm some $330,000. The paralegal has lower overhead support, but the partners can pay him $75,000, spend $50,000 on his support costs, and still have almost $200,000 to put in their pockets. Sweet.

NOW, suppose you're an associate at an ID firm where the client's pay for some things hourly at $100 an hour and for other things on a flat rate for the item. An associate who billed and collected 2500 hours would only have $250,000 in revenue to be split 3 ways. And if 30% of the work the associate did was flat fee work, and (natch) took more time than the fee covered in time (why else would the client agree to it), say the associate ends up bringing in only $200,000. Given that the partners are greedy (why not) they'll want $80-100,000 and will allocate at least $75,000 to overhead. That leaves only $50,000 at most for the associate.

Quick hit on recently published book: Strapped: Why 20 and 30 somethings can't get ahead. Note the brutal reality of wage stagnation for college graduates in the aggregate.

Have you been working your a$$ off and somehow you still can't seem to juggle housing payments, student loans, car notes/insurance, and child expenses? This book is for you. http://www.jdjive.com/read.php?1,329671

Re: More Jobs Than Ever For Law GradsPosted by: grendelselectricDate: February 26, 2007 10:25AM

The problem with the last comment is one of risk. Does one believe in buyer beware or does one believe in the modern economy which places burdens on both the buyer and seller to deal fairly. If your view is buyer beware then of course there is never any reason why a seller should have to deal honestly. If the later, then one is not making an argue against buyers being required to become informed as consumers, but it also insist that they buyers duty doesn't negate the seller's duty. The idea is the market works best on full disclosure without distortion.

You think the LSAT's are nerve wracking? Imagine how much it would suck to get into law school, get out of law school, and then fail to be able to pass the Bar? (Which, by the way, roughly 1/3 of all test takers do on any given test.)

How did I pass, you wonder? Attempts # 1 and 2 for me were a disaster. I was neurotic at attempt # 1 and just focused on the wrong things. I was about 50 points from passing. Attempt # 2, I worked full time and only took 2 weeks for vacation to study but realized at the last minute I was completely unprepared (my scores dipped to 150 pts away from passing). Attempt # 3, I took off 4 weeks from work and used a tutor but ended up falling 8 questions short on the MBE (10 pts from passing score). Attempt # 4, I got cocky and only focused on the essays and my MBE score dropped (20 pts away from passing) and finally on Attempt # 5 I got ANGRY - took the entire 2 months off from work and focused on the crap (but then I got fired so ended up not caring any more about my legal job or careeer and just wanted to pass the darn thing).

Great place to temp. Total, rampant disorginization, no supervision whatsoever- many people (myself included) would wander off for HOURS on end, nap, throw paper-crap at each other, surf the internet, and generally accomplish absolutley nothing. They are so disorginzed that we'd get at truckload of boxes at 8 am to plow thru, and then at 4 pm find out that it was all the wrong stuff and we had to wait for another truck of crap. Thus it made no difference if you were there or not, since 75% of the time they gave us the wrong stuff to do anyway. THe food allowance was $35 a day and we ate ourselves silly, got black car home every nite, and $32/hr plus OT at time & a half after 40 hrs. you could stay there 90 hours a week if you wanted to, they didn't give a crap at all.

Compared to Paul Weiss the place was great, although Paul Weiss does have the better cafeteria "the Jury Room" as its called makes great steaks for only $8- I ate a steak every day I was at PW and they were always tasty.

Fact is that "biglaw" is a load of crap, the "law" is just window dressing to hide the political backroom deals that really get this sleazy M&A stuff done. Biglaw is a total waste of time, I have no idea how anyone could be fufilled by churning reams of ultra-boring and irrelevant makework paper. Guess that's why 90% of those kids are gone in 5 years.