Judge sides with censored blogger against Chinese ISP

Professor Hu Xingdou was known for writing about politically sensitive topics …

Do not adjust your monitors: a Chinese government critic has won a court case against his ISP in Beijing for taking his website offline. Economics professor Hu Xingdou's website was shut down by Beijing Xin Net for containing "illegal" content earlier this year, but a Daxing district court ruled last week that the ISP could not provide proof for its claims and ordered Xin Net to repay Hu's service fees from the past two years.

Hu was apparently known for discussing government corruption and police brutality on his website—sensitive topics that have historically gotten the attention of Chinese Internet censors pretty quickly. When Hu wrote about China's reeducation through labor system in March, however, Xin Net was apparently ordered from on high to close down Hu's website.

This series of events doesn't sound particularly surprising given the government's past actions when dealing with politically antagonistic bloggers, but Hu pushed back and sued Xin Net. According to the ISP's contract with users, it must first request that the content be taken down or changed before they shut down a website. The Daxing court said that Xin Net couldn't provide proof of illegal content and that it didn't adhere to its contract terms before removing Hu's site, hence handing him the victory and a refund of about $201 for two years of service.

The court decision is the first of its kind with regard to Internet censorship in China, though it did not directly address the issue of free speech. Such a decision is still significant, however, as it may help build a more solid precedent concerning online censorship. "This means the internet will be regulated more through a set of clear rules and less with arbitrary, intransparent decisions," Hu told the Financial Times. "It is a warning sign to the internet surveillance authorities as well."

Though we don't expect to see China's court system suddenly siding with censored bloggers, it's encouraging to see this kind of progress being made. The concept of "free speech" online is still a ways away when it comes to law enforcement in China, but baby steps towards a clearer set of rules will help define the relationship between ISPs, users, and the government.

There's no precedent here because China doesn't operate under Common Law. No judge has to another judge's opinion into account in their own rulings. I'm betting this particular judge will be quickly demoted and his ruling overturned. The only thing that sets a precedent in China is the CCP...and money.

Good lord people. You make China sound like hell. Contrary to what you seem to think, China really isn't a bad place to live. Yes, there are rules that must be followed, and the idea of free speech isn't exactly popular. But take a look at the goings on in our countries before you start making fun of others.

Also, keep in mind that most of what the western media reports on concerning China are the extreme examples. To put this in perspective, the murder of the olympians parents was shocking to the general Chinese public, as there just aren't many murders, especially of outsiders. This is considered the worst form of bad manners, and causes the loss of face, a concept mostly alien to westerners, but still taken very seriously by many Chinese.

There are many positive stories about China, but they generally aren't brought to the attention of the West.

Hello TheFerenc: FYI, positive stories is not news. News is making fun of the perceived short coming of individuals other than yourself. We tend to judge others with our own yardstick. I'm always right and you are always wrong, hence, news story. Furthermore, freedom of speech has its limit. For instance, you yell fire in a movie theater is a no no (may be a poor example). We tend to use our own yardstick to measure the behavior of others. That is, using the value of our own culture in comparing action of others. That is also news.

sounds more like he gets his 201$ back because the account was improperly terminated. The ISP will probably add an "unless requested by proper government officials and/or law enforcement departments" escape clause to the TOS and be done with it.

This case will definitely define clearer rules, but not the way most people hope. The Chinese government will expand the current rules to make the things that were OK illegal, solving this problem once and for all.

Originally posted by TheFerenc:Good lord people. You make China sound like hell. Contrary to what you seem to think, China really isn't a bad place to live. Yes, there are rules that must be followed, and the idea of free speech isn't exactly popular. But take a look at the goings on in our countries before you start making fun of others.

Also, keep in mind that most of what the western media reports on concerning China are the extreme examples. To put this in perspective, the murder of the olympians parents was shocking to the general Chinese public, as there just aren't many murders, especially of outsiders. This is considered the worst form of bad manners, and causes the loss of face, a concept mostly alien to westerners, but still taken very seriously by many Chinese.

There are many positive stories about China, but they generally aren't brought to the attention of the West.

I think we (me too) were simply capitalizing on the irony that a modern and enlightened China still has some old ways that it hasn't shaken off yet and these can still be seen no matter how much they present their selfs to the world as something else. The old ways are still very much alive or the government would not have taken action to begin with. Sort of like an old termite ridden house, you slap some paint on it, call it "quaint" and a "bargain" and someone will buy it, but it doesn't change the fact that the termites are still there.

Originally posted by TheFerenc:Good lord people. You make China sound like hell. Contrary to what you seem to think, China really isn't a bad place to live. Yes, there are rules that must be followed, and the idea of free speech isn't exactly popular. But take a look at the goings on in our countries before you start making fun of others.

Also, keep in mind that most of what the western media reports on concerning China are the extreme examples. To put this in perspective, the murder of the olympians parents was shocking to the general Chinese public, as there just aren't many murders, especially of outsiders. This is considered the worst form of bad manners, and causes the loss of face, a concept mostly alien to westerners, but still taken very seriously by many Chinese.

There are many positive stories about China, but they generally aren't brought to the attention of the West.

lol how bout the fact that China has nice people, a modernising economy, and a TOTAL LACK OF FREE THINKING

We are making fun of the totally top down society, which is fully deserved. And no, don't try comparing it to Western society. The US govt can be a censoring asstwat, but we can call them out, and we won't be taken out the back shack.

I don't see why he couldn't discuss about corruption and police brutality. China is not governerd by faschism, its socialism. As long as he stay within the communist party line, he should be allow to discuss. Most people tend to think that there's no way for change in China and that people are locked out of politics. There's nothing stopping someone from joining the party and getting involved. Heck, if someone goes missing after revealing some's is corrupted, the party should be looking at this pretty quick. Don't forget that communism work as long as there is nobody in the governement taking power for itself.

I think China should not be shy about free speech, except on some sensitive issue. Communism is about giving the power to the people. Remember, somebody has nothing to hide as long as he hasn't done something he knows is wrong.

This is very important for China. China, like any functioning government, has to be bound by (and bind its people by) set rules. A "nod and wink" legal system results in collapse and this is in nobody's interest.

In this simple contractual dispute, the ISP was found to have not abided by the contract made.

I don't see the "free speech" angle at all, even still not the extremist US version of it.

The US govt can be a censoring asstwat, but we can call them out, and we won't be taken out the back shack.

While that's true, it should be said that the U.S. government would respond no differently than the Chinese government when truly challenged.

Someone ranting on the internet is not a challenge to the U.S. government: that person can easily be ignored by the masses. Whenever "shit gets real" though the U.S. government has come down hard - the WWI Red Scare, WWII McCarthyism, 60s era COINTEL program, etc.

The difference is not that one government responds to threats to the status quo with repression and the other one does not. Rather, the difference is that there is a much lower threshold for changing the status quo in China.

I understand TheFerenc's comment. The first FIVE comments to this story were jokes about China. I too was beginning to think that's the only thing anyone had to say.

But the "difference in degree only" argument of Matrices completely ignores the HUGE differences that truly impact the lives of the citizens. It's like saying a $1M/year salary is just a little bigger than $10k/year.

Originally posted by TheFerenc:Good lord people. You make China sound like hell. Contrary to what you seem to think, China really isn't a bad place to live. Yes, there are rules that must be followed, and the idea of free speech isn't exactly popular. But take a look at the goings on in our countries before you start making fun of others.

You know the vast majority of autocratic countries aren't bad places to live as long as you "follow the rules" and don't speak freely.

And if you didn't notice there is plenty of criticism of "our countries" here too. No one is exempt.

We are making fun of the totally top down society, which is fully deserved. And no, don't try comparing it to Western society. The US govt can be a censoring asstwat, but we can call them out, and we won't be taken out the back shack.

Nah; in the good ol' US of A, you'll get arrested for conducting a demonstration outside of the designated "Free Speech Zone", handily located at a safe remove from any decision-makers view and/or significant mass-media coverage. Sometimes you don't even need to be actually protesting or demonstrating, or even near any such activity.

I was thinking more along the lines of: Professor Hu Xingdou not seen by classes; believed to be on extended vacation. Web site taken down for lack of payment.

quote:

TheFerenc - Good lord people. You make China sound like hell

Well, they don't have the NSA to snoop on them....

quote:

Bernardo Verdaquote:We are making fun of the totally top down society, which is fully deserved. And no, don't try comparing it to Western society. The US govt can be a censoring asstwat, but we can call them out, and we won't be taken out the back shack.

Nah; in the good ol' US of A, you'll get arrested for conducting a demonstration outside of the designated "Free Speech Zone", handily located at a safe remove from any decision-makers view and/or significant mass-media coverage. Sometimes you don't even need to be actually protesting or demonstrating, or even near any such activity.

Yeah, just try demonstrating at the republican or democrats convention cities and see what happens...

You can be run over by the U.S. government too. Take the bailout of the UAW vs. the shaft for GM and Chrysler auto workers, or maybe we can get waterboarded, or anybody who's white and accused of being racist, or somebody accused of being a child molester, even if the claim lacks any plausability.

My assumption here is that the Chinese goverment didn't consider him that threatening. They don't like corruption at all, and police brutality is only tolerated when the victims are disfavored. There is sort of ways to change the system, but only by joining the communist party and trying to change it from within. That's not free discussion in the sense we think of it, but it's not cut-and-dried.