It's here (BMW/Alpina/D3 thread, ignore if you're delicate)

I wasn't talking about price but I was talking about product concept... A3 and 3 series have nothing to compare... they are even from different market areas... that was only my point...

Pricewise sure... but A3 and 3 series are two completely different things... OK they are both cars with 4 wheels but I wouldn't compare them... but then again, personal view.

Small hatch vs small saloon.... no biggie but personally I wouldn't try to compared them...

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If we want to compare an Audi A3 with a BMW the surely it should be compared with the 1 series. Both smallish family hatchbacks.

The BMW 3 series should be compared with the A4 and not the A3.

Just out of interest, in this weeks Auto Express, their Driver Power 2008 survey, for what it's worth rates the BMW 1-Series at no 40 and the A3 (8P) at no 23. Mind you the 'winning' car is the Skoda Octavia. This either means that the survey is rather suspect or that Skoda Octavia drivers are more concerned with price that most other things and have a relatively lower expectation of their cars.

The problem is, Audi have totally lost focus with the A4 in my opinion.

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Amen.
I truly was willing to give the new A4 a look, given that my previous A4 was pretty faultless.
I heard and read hype saying it would be a 'marked departure' for Audi.
A real competitor to the 3-series.
Unfortunately, the new A4 is totally underwhelming.
Releasing it with a single choice of diesel engine, with a paltry 143bhp, is a baffling decision.

I think that all of us would be very happy to have our A3s compared with the BMW 3 Series. What does that tell you?

The 3 series is an EXCELLENT drivers car. I don't think that the A3 can match it though. If I could afford a 3 series with a similar spec and engine as my Audi I would have bought one. I'd prefer BMW over Audi any day of the week but that is just me. Audi isn't bad at all though is it?

I think that all of us would be very happy to have our A3s compared with the BMW 3 Series. What does that tell you?

The 3 series is an EXCELLENT drivers car. I don't think that the A3 can match it though. If I could afford a 3 series with a similar spec and engine as my Audi I would have bought one. I'd prefer BMW over Audi any day of the week but that is just me. Audi isn't bad at all though is it?

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I agree with you to a point. I actually prefer the feel of my A3 quattro compared to 3 series saloons i tried. I owned a 325ci before the A3 but that started to feel like an out dated car. Basic 3-series are not excellent drivers cars though, they're dull, plasticky rep mobiles with no style whatsoever. To buy a 'nice' 3-series with an engine which offers 'hot hatch' performance, sport pack, lower, stiffer suspension, full leather sports seats, good range of extras, nice set of wheels and a cabin to match the quality of an Audi....You're talking easily a good chuck over 30K. So when talking about equal spec cars there's just no comparison, with the money i wanted to spend for the life of this car (2 years) the A3 was the ONLY candidate.
I have no interest whatsoever in owning any BMW under £30K. Thats not necessarily snobbery...They just don't offer enough to excite me. When i do decide to own one again it'll be the 335 coupe in 18 months to 2 years.....Unless something else comes along!

I agree with you to a point. I actually prefer the feel of my A3 quattro compared to 3 series saloons i tried. I owned a 325ci before the A3 but that started to feel like an out dated car. Basic 3-series are not excellent drivers cars though, they're dull, plasticky rep mobiles with no style whatsoever. To buy a 'nice' 3-series with an engine which offers 'hot hatch' performance, sport pack, lower, stiffer suspension, full leather sports seats, good range of extras, nice set of wheels and a cabin to match the quality of an Audi....You're talking easily a good chuck over 30K. So when talking about equal spec cars there's just no comparison, with the money i wanted to spend for the life of this car (2 years) the A3 was the ONLY candidate.
I have no interest whatsoever in owning any BMW under £30K. Thats not necessarily snobbery...They just don't offer enough to excite me. When i do decide to own one again it'll be the 335 coupe in 18 months to 2 years.....Unless something else comes along!

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25k for my A3

Knowing what i know now I would have tipped that money into a different manufacturer

If someone used the word quality in the same sentence with my A3, I'd expect them to be locked up

Knowing what i know now I would have tipped that money into a different manufacturer

If someone used the word quality in the same sentence with my A3, I'd expect them to be locked up

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Yes by the sound of things YOU should have put your money elsewhere. Obviously if you're unhappy with a car it's because either you made the wrong choice for you as a driver or for your own needs, or... You've been unlucky enough to get a dog. It happens.
I can only speak for myself and say i love mine, it's a great all rounder, suits me and my needs perfectly right now....and so far no issues, touch wood.
After deciding a 4 door saloon wasn't for me at this stage (and 3 series coupes still going at a premium) i decided on either...Golf GTI, Golf R32, Audi S3 or an A3 2.0T FSI quattro s-line. After test drives, as much as i loved the golfs for sporty driveability, they definitely felt cheaper than the Audi's and to be honest they seem to attract the wrong attention...boy racers at lights, theft, vandalism etc. So it was between the Audi's. After much deliberation i weighed up the fact i'm keeping the car for just 2 years, insurance on the A3 2.0TFSI is a lot less, slightly more economical, more understated and yet still as quick as the GTI (more or less). So my decision was made and i've never looked back. Can't really fault the car so far.

Like the wheels and steering wheel. Other than that it looks like a normal BMW to me. Although 298lbft is pretty good. Is it one of those twin turbo engines? one small and one medium sized turbo?

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I agree looks like any old (soon to be updated) BMW series. Hope you paid extra and got indicators that work which seem not to be standard fit on BM's or is it just the drivers who are too busy trying to work their I drives and don't bother communicating their intentions to carve in front of other users... Moan moan maon.. I was cut up by a twat in a Black Z4 on the M3 yesterday which has revived my dislike of the marque. Sorry mate.

If someone used the word quality in the same sentence with MY A3, I'd agree with the totally. 12 months old and never been near the dealer yet. The same would apply to the other 5 I have owned.

I'm sure there are 'bad' BMWs, Mercedes, VWs, Skodas, Fords, and every other make you can think off out there as well. I've had at least one lousy one myself, all be it many years ago.

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Point well made! It makes me laugh when people say stuff like " I bought a BMW because AUDI dealers and warranty are rubbish ". I'm sorry to say that there will be good and bad dealers for every make and generally Audi do as well as BMW in any customer satisfaction surveys. I remember taking my old Leon to the local dealer to get an exhaust problem looked at - they told me it would no way be a warranty claim ( even though the welding was faulty ) so I went to another dealer who promptly ordered me a new exhaust and fitted it under warranty!

As for a 3 series the only I want starts with an M and I can't afford it! Having said that a Nissan GT-R will be the same price next year!

I agree looks like any old (soon to be updated) BMW series. Hope you paid extra and got indicators that work which seem not to be standard fit on BM's or is it just the drivers who are too busy trying to work their I drives and don't bother communicating their intentions to carve in front of other users... Moan moan maon.. I was cut up by a twat in a Black Z4 on the M3 yesterday which has revived my dislike of the marque. Sorry mate.

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Funny you should mention Z4's.... The other week i was in a local Audi dealer with my mate and some guy was in there trying to part ex his Z4 for a new TT. The dealer offered him a ridiculous sum and actually said they didn't want his car because they can't sell them. He said even the local BMW dealership isn't taking on any more Z4's. I must clarify this doesn't include the coupe (which i like very much).

Funny you should mention Z4's.... The other week i was in a local Audi dealer with my mate and some guy was in there trying to part ex his Z4 for a new TT. The dealer offered him a ridiculous sum and actually said they didn't want his car because they can't sell them. He said even the local BMW dealership isn't taking on any more Z4's. I must clarify this doesn't include the coupe (which i like very much).

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It was actually a Black Z4 Coupe that cut me up. I can see why a Z4 owner would want to upgrade to a TT especially the new one as they are just superb to drive. Nearly as good as the R8 (if you ignore the R-Chronic) .

BMW's never quite did it for me alythough have a soft spot for the 2002ti and the Batmobile

It has to be said, I didn't really buy the Alpina for it's looks.
I bought it, primarily, because it met my requirements (4 seats, powerful diesel) and promised a far more rewarding/fun drive than the A3 (or any similar Audi).
If looks were paramount, I'd have gone for the 159ti.
If some think the 3-series is ugly, so be it.
My mates think Kate Nash is ugly, but I'd give her one in a shot.

It has to be said, I didn't really buy the Alpina for it's looks.
I bought it, primarily, because it met my requirements (4 seats, powerful diesel) and promised a far more rewarding/fun drive than the A3 (or any similar Audi).
If looks were paramount, I'd have gone for the 159ti.
If some think the 3-series is ugly, so be it.
My mates think Kate Nash is ugly, but I'd give her one in a shot.

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The 3 series isn't ugly at all. It's one of those cars which is very sensitive to colour and choice of wheels etc. It can look ugly in some colours and yet very sleek in others. I see some bas***d every morning on the way to work in a new shape 325 M-sport coupe in a purple/blue pearl colour with 19's. Sweet jesus thats a fine looking motor. But then i've seen one in gold and it look pants.

If someone used the word quality in the same sentence with MY A3, I'd agree with the totally. 12 months old and never been near the dealer yet. The same would apply to the other 5 I have owned.

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I'd have to agree with you Dave. My own A3 is just over 12 months old and also never been back to dealer. My previous A3 was back just once for a rattle which turned out to be something or other to do with the left rear suspension. It was resolved quite quickly and wasn't a major problem as far as I was concerned.

From reading this forum over the years it is clear that there are problems with some A3s, but no more so than with any other make or model.

The problem with reliablility surveys and other such reports is that people tend only to listen to the problems and faults - they don't want to know that you've had 1\5\10\20\50 years of trouble free driving and tend to view such comments as the exception rather than the rule.

The 3 series isn't ugly at all. It's one of those cars which is very sensitive to colour and choice of wheels etc. It can look ugly in some colours and yet very sleek in others. I see some bas***d every morning on the way to work in a new shape 325 M-sport coupe in a purple/blue pearl colour with 19's. Sweet jesus thats a fine looking motor. But then i've seen one in gold and it look pants.

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Looks like Kate Nash! I prefer the look of an Audi ? Kirsty Young... older wiser, subtle with hidden depths (possibly) and she sounds good! So its Kirsty for me!!

Yes by the sound of things YOU should have put your money elsewhere. Obviously if you're unhappy with a car it's because either you made the wrong choice for you as a driver or for your own needs, or... You've been unlucky enough to get a dog. It happens.
.

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Obviously

Obviously you have never actually read any of my posts
Love the looks, love the DSG box, so its feck hall to do with my choice, so lets look at the second of your inspired options

Well I plan on saving up and not spending to much on my A4 and was thinking I want the last of a B6 shape hopefully from a dealer, only ever bought from a dealer once and I enjoyed the experiance and the fact it had warranty and was dealer approved. Starting to get a bit concerned about Audi, does it seem to anyone the newer they get the more unreliable they become compared to the reputation of Audi of yesteryear? I love mine, but seriously think I am going to treat it as a stop gap car until I can afford something newer and I have never owned a 6 cylinder motor before and would like to try one and BMW could be a possibility

worth seeking feedback on some beemer forums too, see what people say to the relaibility of theirs - out of my colleagues who have Audi's I'm the only one with big issues, most of them seem to have minor ones (albeit 2 others have had steering racks) however the common theme of thoughts to the dealers remain

If my S3 carries on the way its going I'll be up with you mate. I'm getting to the point where I'd happily give the bugger back. Luckily I've found a half decent dealer so fingers tightly crossed. My cars been in the dealers for nearly 4 weeks in the last 3 months with one issue or another, with time added trying to diagnose. I had such high expectations and it's been far less a car than my cheap and cheerful Leon Cupra R. I think I'd rather wipe my **** with the £32k and suffer the paper cuts than invest in another S3 which is a shame as it has the potential to be a great car. I am not really a BM fan, but I'm ever more drawn to the new M3 (with indicators obviously). Audi will have to perform fu@k1ng miracles to get repeat business from me. Find me in BMW showrooms from Jan 2010.

If my S3 carries on the way its going I'll be up with you mate. I'm getting to the point where I'd happily give the bugger back. Luckily I've found a half decent dealer so fingers tightly crossed. My cars been in the dealers for nearly 4 weeks in the last 3 months with one issue or another, with time added trying to diagnose. I had such high expectations and it's been far less a car than my cheap and cheerful Leon Cupra R. I think I'd rather wipe my **** with the £32k and suffer the paper cuts than invest in another S3 which is a shame as it has the potential to be a great car. I am not really a BM fan, but I'm ever more drawn to the new M3 (with indicators obviously). Audi will have to perform fu@k1ng miracles to get repeat business from me. Find me in BMW showrooms from Jan 2010.

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shhhh

saying that here will get all sorts of people hot and bothered!

Sorry to hear some one else is suffering, goodnews that you have a dealer that seems to care though - think I've got one of those now!

thing is, I reckon the core product could actually be ok, if they spend the extra time and effort developing it for the UK audience

It certainly does.
I managed to easily get 120mph out if it the first night I had it, on a straight the A3 would barely muster 100mph.
Can't see it bothering the likes of an S3, but it's plenty fast enough for me.

I assume you mean as in 'pig in a poke'... Sorry I think these fall in the same category as leopardskin catsuits in the 70's! Agree the diseasal motors BM produce are pretty OK but the styling is bling, quality is **** and the standard of driving and lack of indicators from BM drivers in general is poor.

My opinion, free world and all that but I bet 99% of folks on this blog would prefer we got around to talking Audi again... Anyone had a go in an R8 yet? I have and WOW what a motor!:weight_lift2:

Dear gowd...
There's opinions, and there's just adding to baseless stereotypes.
Christ, even when I was a happy Audi driver (when I had an A4), I didn't subscribe to this "BMW indicator" bullcrap.

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Not Bull**** Bowfer based on statistical evidence gained by 14 yr old kids at our local school . I think the figures were something like 78% of BM divers did NOT indicate left, (probably 100% X5 drivers)

When a lad at school got hit by a woman in a Red Peugout (not indicating) the kids did a real life survey and it is a fact that BMW's came out as the worst for lack of indicator use. If you think this is Mickey Mouse I find that rather dismissive and unwarranted. I have not disputed some of the (few) benefits of BMW's but overall I stand by my views that they are overall an inferior product to Audi, they also based on a local survey last year appear to lack indicators. They are also falling badly on the Residual value front. BMW 3 series has become a Cortina/Mondeo. Common as muck! Z4's residuals through the floor according to another post.

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