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Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

That's fine you don't have to respond, but I will point out that I never claimed that homosexuality is normal. So your whole contention with my argument was built upon your misunderstanding.

You're LYING again.
The whole purpose of your posting of Wiki's 'animal homosexuality' page was to show it's commonness/normality across the animal kingdom. A long listing of such.
and additionally/Consistently/Despicably you left off the Opening parts that explain it really isn't.

Your posts are not only poorly conceived, they are intentionally Deceptive and beneath contempt/debate.

I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.﻿
anon

Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

Originally Posted by mbig

You're LYING again.
The whole purpose of your posting of Wiki's 'animal homosexuality' page was to show it's commonness/normality across the animal kingdom. A long listing of such.
and additionally/Consistently/Despicably you left off the Opening parts that explain it really isn't.

Your posts are not only poorly conceived, they are intentionally Deceptive and beneath contempt/debate.

Uh, no it wasn't it was in response to Taylor who said animals do not form homosexual relationships. Try again buddy.

Originally Posted by MrVicchio

In my own experience here, people seem to ignore a posters professional experience or training if the app pro holds a view that is disagreed with.

Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

Originally Posted by Zinthaniel

Uh, no it wasn't it was in response to Taylor who said animals do not form homosexual relationships. Try again buddy.

And 'Homosexual' behavior in animals, isn't mainly about 'relationships', UNLIKE Humans, it's part (generally short) of a Repertoire of behavior that is Mainly Heterosexual.
It is Not analogous to the term as applied to humans.
Still wrong.
See the Wiki link you Cherry-picked/I contexted.

Your posting is inaccurate and Grossly Dishonest. Short-quoting me in almost every instance and Wiki as well.

Last edited by mbig; 07-16-14 at 07:22 PM.

I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.﻿
anon

Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

Originally Posted by Redress

Did this about normal a few years ago, and decided it was time to try again. Was a fun and interesting thread at the time, so hopefully this will be as well. Two simple questions. Is Homosexuality "normal", and is homosexuality "natural"? If you would, please include your reasoning.

Poll will allow multiple choices, pick a choice for the "normal" question and for the "natural" question. Poll will be up in a couple minutes.

It consistently occurs in vacuo regardless of sociocultural or ethnic input, all over the planet and in hundreds of other species. By those criteria, I would say it is natural and normal.

Human moral codes are irrelevant to the objectivity of nature. Most of our human systems and laws are unnatural and abnormal when compared to the natural framework that maintains balance of life on the planet. Just because we imagine something to be a certain way, does not make it so.

Likewise, I find it unfortunate that many heterosexual people label their various lifestyles as "natural" merely because body parts happen to fit together and perform a reproductive function, irregardless of higher consciousness values and loving/spiritual connections between partners, as though we are nothing more than flesh robots.

Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

Originally Posted by Bodhisattva

I would imagine that there is but I would seriously doubt that there is any evidence of this because, as it was seriously looked down upon by society and the church that no records would have been kept.

That period in history is appropriately referred to as the "dark ages" - most of our history and philosophy comes from the periods before and after where "society and the church" did not stifle recordkeeping, and there is in fact much that relates to sexuality.

I bet my life that there were homosexuals having secret relationships though and that, if they knew what the concept was, would have identified themselves as Homosexuals. You can't prove you are right and nobody can prove you wrong but that doesn't make your argument valid in the slightest either. As there are homosexuals now that claim that this was a natural thing for them and that they lived with women thinking it was right until they accepted their true self, always knew they were homosexual, etc. I would go with that as the default for human history.

In many cultures, there was no need for "secret relationships" because homosexual sex was accepted. They would not have understood your view of the heterosexual/homosexual dichotomy - conservative even by today's standards. In those cultures, a person may have engaged in mostly same-sex relations in their younger years, and mostly heterosexual relations for the bulk of their life, and never considered the need to conform to some culturally- fabricated label.

Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

Originally Posted by mbig

And 'Homosexual' behavior in animals, isn't mainly about 'relationships'
, UNLIKE Humans, it's part (generally short) of a Continuum of behavior that is Mainly Heterosexual.

Except there are such thing as animals who have an exclusive attraction to their own sex and who create exclusively homosexual coupling. This is confirmed not only by my quote in which the documented animals not only had sex with their own gender but stayed paired for years on after. But then there is also the evidence compounded by your own quote that you keep trying to dismiss, it was the part that you did not bother to bold.

but cases of homosexual preference and exclusive homosexual pairs are known.

ExIt is overwhelmingly NOT analogous to the term as applied to humans.

Overwhelming - is not the same as "Absolutely not analogous" which means, as shown, that it can be interpreted as such.

Still wrong.

lol. Not at all.

Originally Posted by MrVicchio

In my own experience here, people seem to ignore a posters professional experience or training if the app pro holds a view that is disagreed with.

Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

Originally Posted by Taylor

That period in history is appropriately referred to as the "dark ages" - most of our history and philosophy comes from the periods before and after where "society and the church" did not stifle recordkeeping, and there is in fact much that relates to sexuality.

In many cultures, there was no need for "secret relationships" because homosexual sex was accepted. They would not have understood your view of the heterosexual/homosexual dichotomy - conservative even by today's standards. In those cultures, a person may have engaged in mostly same-sex relations in their younger years, and mostly heterosexual relations for the bulk of their life, and never considered the need to conform to some culturally- fabricated label.

Well, wasn't it Sapphos (sp.?) from the island of Lesbos (Lesbians), the foundation of Western Culture, where same sex relationships became famous? Seems it has been around for a long time, contrary to your claim.

Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

Originally Posted by Zinthaniel

Except there are such thing as animals who have an exclusive attraction to their own sex and who create exclusively homosexual coupling. This is confirmed not only by my quote in which the documented animals not only had sex with their own gender but stayed paired for years on after. And then that evidence is compounded by your own quote that you keep trying to dismiss, it was the part that you did not bother to bold.

Overwhelming - is not the same as "Absolutely not analogous" which means, as shown, that it can be interpreted as such.

lol. Not at all.

That's correct.
I said "overwhelmingly" instead of "absolutely" so some High School Strawman debater couldN'T use the old "all" on me.
I Never claimed "all", of course/Duh.
I mean really.

So I could make a 99%+ TRUE generalization without Being refuted with rare EXCEPTION/S.
PREcisely why I used that language.
That WAS Wiki's actual take. So you try the strawman anyway!YOUR Wiki Excerpt DISHONESTLY made 'Overwhelmingly Rare' look common/normal.

That's Right, YOU LOSE, because I didn't use "all" or "100%".Because "Overwhelmingly" is plenty good enough to show something Isn't "normal", and was what Wiki Actually said about animal 'homosexuality'.

Last edited by mbig; 07-16-14 at 07:36 PM.

I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.﻿
anon

Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

Originally Posted by Bodhisattva

Well, wasn't it Sapphos (sp.?) from the island of Lesbos (Lesbians), the foundation of Western Culture, where same sex relationships became famous? Seems it has been around for a long time, contrary to your claim.

Don't know where you got the idea that I've claimed that same sex relationships are something new.

Re: Is Homosexuality "Normal" and "Natural"?

That's correct.
I said "overwhelmingly" instead of "absolutely" so some High School Strawman debater couldN'T use the old "all" on me.

So I could make a 99%+ TRUE generalization without Being refuted with the EXCEPTIONS you are using.

PREcisely why I used that language!

That's Right, YOU LOSE, because I didn't use "all" or "100%".
Because "Overwelmingly" is plenty good enough to show "abnormal"

Why do you think I care if it is "abnormal"? I already explained to you that I never argued that it was normal. You silly goose.

You claimed you trumped me on an argument I never offered in the first place. Both my and your quote confirm that exclusive homosexual behavior & pairings do exist in the animal kingdom outside of humans. Which for me and taylor proves that it does happen, contrary to her claim that it does not.

You came in like a bat out of hell arguing a position I do not hold. But hey if makes you feel better. Then yes you are right it is abnormal.

Originally Posted by MrVicchio

In my own experience here, people seem to ignore a posters professional experience or training if the app pro holds a view that is disagreed with.