Thursday, June 02, 2011

I've just returned from three days of gallavanting in Galveston, Texas. There was lots of sun, lots of surf, lots of camping equipment. My sister and her husband bought themselves an RV and parked down there at an RV park.

Before that I was at the Houston Zen Center with the incredible Gaelyn Godwin. I gave two talks in one day, something I usually try to avoid. The first talk, at around 10 am was about Dogen's statement that:

"Although realization is not like any of the thoughts preceding it, this is not because such thoughts were actually bad and could not be realization. Past thoughts in themselves were already realization. But since you were seeking elsewhere, you thought and said that thoughts cannot be realization. However, it is worth noticing that what you think one way or another is not a help for realization. Then you are cautious not to be small-minded. If realization came forth by the power of your prior thoughts, it would not be trustworthy. Realization does not depend on thoughts, but comes forth far beyond them. Realization is helped only by the power of realization itself. Know that then there is no delusion and there is no realization."

This comes from Kaz Tanahashi's translation. The rest of this passage can be found here. That is, if I didn't mess up the link. Nishijima Roshi's translation is a bit better. But I don't have a link for that, unfortunately.

I recorded the talk and maybe one of these days it'll end up in a podcast. Is anyone listening to these? I think John Graves is doing a tremendous job with them.

The second talk was about my growing feeling that perhaps we really don't need Buddhist clergy anymore -- if we ever did in the first place. The talk was partly based on an article called Church Without Clergy. This article examines the problem of clergy from the Protestant Christian perspective. But most of what the author says could be applied to Buddhism as well.

We should be careful to distinguish between "teachers" and "clergy". People who think there is nothing to learn, or, worse, that they already know it all, are a menace to themselves and others.

Having a teacher is an essential gate to pass through in any spiritual tradition. Anyone who is not willing to willing to take on the role of "student" should be barred, for everyone's sake. This is like a red flashing warning light that says, simply: "EGO EGO EGO".

We don't allow people to just teach themselves how to drive, or at the very least we insist that everyone take and pass certain tests before being given a drivers license. The mind is far more dangerous, and difficult to operate, than any motor vehicle. We all need teachers. Lots of them. The more, the better.

Professional "Zen Teachers" are in fact "Clergy" and problems. The entire Sangha should be both student and teacher at the same time. Whenever one person is lifted to the rank of being in charge of everyone elses' egos problems are sure to arise. Especially if money, sex or power are involved.

My two cents on power. While you can eliminate the institutional roles, I don't that in and of itself gets rid of the power people see as they see things through stories. Maybe gives one fewer excuse to put someone in a role, but in my experience people can see you as a role/idea up or down (thinking you're a teacher, that you're a student), whatever. Still, looking forward to seeing what you end up saying about that.

Is "cannibalism" is your cheap little Freudian reading of the Mass, Mysti trash? You really are confused. That's called ..a symbol, or metaphor (for starters)--and from pre-christian, pagan roots actually

Buddhists are hardly the peace-religion. Perhaps not quite as guilty as the..sons of Abraham (ie, jews, muslims, christians) but they have a great deal of blood on their hands --japanese, singhalese, burma, india etc. Even Chrissy Hitchens understands that

Oh, oh!Okay, so, I have a completely unrelated question to your post (that I did read!):If we have a question, and we'd like to email you said question, how do we do this?...I don't use blogger enough to know how to find such things...or, uh, are we... allowed too?(btw, I just finished Sex, Sin, and Zen. Awesome job, yo.)

The Lineage Delusions article is good. But the author's assumptions about the meaning of Dharma Transmission are entirely wrong. Which is OK because they are also entirely common and very widespread. So saying what he says about that widespread assumption is, I think, good.

I was just listening to a couple of those podcasts last night. Sex and Buddhism Part 1 and The Tranquil Man...(Thanks John Graves!) I wondering if the discussion in the former podcast about inequality in relationships relates to the subject of this post? I definitely like the idea of no power differential involved in Buddhism. It’s interesting how Buddha taught equanimity, but how there are such hierarchies of power within Buddhism. Such power hierarchies have created some difficulties for me. That is why I’m always going back and forth about working with a teacher or not. On one hand, I have a somewhat intuitive feeling that I should be working with a teacher. On the other hand, I’m not a fan of the hierarchy and trust is not my strength. I’d just like someone with experice to bounce ideas back and forth with to gain deeper understanding and encourgement.

Btw, I think I was the douchebag bugging Brad on Facebook Chat about spiritual teachers. Oops! (He speaks about it on the podcast.)

Speaking of bugging Brad, does he answer emails anymore? I’ve sent him a few questions and nothing. I’m guessing he is either too busy to respond, overlooks them, or thinks I’m a douchebag and my questions are stupid.

"The Lineage Delusions article is good. But the author's assumptions about the meaning of Dharma Transmission are entirely wrong."

Hi Brad. I would like it if you could set us all straight about the reality of Dharma transmission. It's good to point out that Storlie got it wrong and all but why not take an extra couple of minutes and explain why. I figure frigging myterion is going to weigh in with his two cents and you probably won't even bother to. Fuck me.

Yes, do away with clergy and ban all forms of titles, by all means. They simply support a power structure which leads to corruption, abuse, and overly inflated egos. Let those be respected who earn that respect due to their actions, not due to their titles.

Brad I am glad to see that your thoughts on the nature of the student-teacher relationship are moving beyond sex. I think power is the key issue. I am a teacher, as in of kids, and I work really hard to try and diminish the element of power in the relationships I have with kids. To me if I assume all the power, or majority of power, what room is there for the kids to express themselves?

The only thing is when you take away any idea of power, or someone who is in charge or at least responsible in some way for the group, that people with more dominant personalities can take over anyway. There are always people who like to put themselves forward and people who don't. Maybe its necessary to have someone to balance that out? Maybe not....

As I was reading your post I thought about Suzuki's idea of Zen mind, Beginner's Mind and wondered if you become a teacher and attach to that identity do you then lose sight of youeself as a student? If being a zen teacher maybe a goal that people have and once you've achieved that you're done?

I like the idea of an autonomous group of individuals who are all students together, sharing in their experiences and learning from each other. I'm just not sure how possible that is given some people just love to hear their own voice and yearn to be in charge.

The Nishijima & Cross version (online Pdf) of the extract quoted by Brad.

To have thought, priorto realization, that it will be like this or like that, was not useful for realization. That it was different from how we had supposed it to be, in all our miscellaneous prior thoughts, does not mean that our thinking, being very bad, had no power in it. Even the thinking of that time was realization itself, but because we were then directing it the wrong way round, we thought and said that it was powerless. Whenever we feel that [we are] useless, there is something that we should know; namely, that we have been afraid of becoming small. If realization appears through the force of thoughts prior to realization,it might be an unreliable realization. Because it does not rely upon [realization], and it has come far transcending the time prior to realization, realizationis assisted solely by the force of realization itself. Delusion, remember, is something that does not exist. Realization, remember, is something that does not exist.

...you will see that, prior to your awakening, whatever you thought it would be like is neither here nor there when actually experiencing an awakening. And even though it will be different from all thevarious ways that you may have previously thought, this does not mean that those views are fundamentally wrong and have played no part in your awakening. Even your past views comprised an awakening of sorts. However, because your thinking has been topsy-turvy, you may think that such views have been useless, and you may speak of them as being so. Whenever you think that your views are useless, there is something that you need to recognize: namely, that you are afraid that anawakening will be overpowering. If your previous ideas about enlightenment could bring forth a true awakening, then you may feel that your realization is unreliable. Since genuine enlightenment does not depend on some special capability and goesfar beyond the time prior to your realization, your awakening is assisted simply by the innate power of realization. Keep in mind that delusion is something that hasno physical existence, and keep in mind that enlightenment is also something thathas no physical existence!

(Trans. Hubert Nearman, online Pdf.)

alongside the Tanahashi version again:

Although realization is not like any of the thoughts preceding it, this is not because such thoughts were actually bad and could not be realization. Past thoughts in themselves were already realization. But since you were seeking elsewhere, you thought and said that thoughts cannot be realization. However, it is worth noticing that what you think one way or another is not a help for realization. Then you are cautious not to be small-minded. If realization came forth by the power of your prior thoughts, it would not be trustworthy. Realization does not depend on thoughts, but comes forth far beyond them. Realization is helped only by the power of realization itself. Know that then there is no delusion and there is no realization.

Someone needs to explore the real of buddhism for authority and power relations. I tend to think the practice isn't really consistent with subordination to power figures of any kind, incl. teachers and gurus and leaders.

"that perhaps the problem is not how to deal with this power differential, but that there is any power differential at all involved. It does not need to be that way."

Brad. I think this is where you are completely astray. There is always subtle power differential between student and teacher. That's how human mind works, please drop the anarchist ideological bullshit and accept the basic psychological facts of human psyche.

Authority is always problematic and dangerous, but its also useful and beneficial.

Normal person with healthy self image can take and give authority role as situation demands. Person who can't project authority to others has problems with his own personal growth and should not take authority roles.

If the power difference is healthy, it's the student that gives authority to the teacher. Not absolute authority, nor noncritical obedience, but still some authority (mostly unconscious). Good teacher just stays as he is and student sees the teacher trough the authority he as projected to the teacher. Teacher is just someone mirrors the student. In reality this never works perfectly, but that is part of working with authority in healthy way. Idealization drops away.

I get anywhere from 2-5 emails per day from people who I do not know, who have read my books. I tend to answer the ones that seem urgent and leave the rest for "later."

There was a time when I would allot a few hours each week to answer these random emails. But it always stretched into a full day because I don't like giving half-assed answers.

The other prob is that with certain people, once you answer one email they assume they're your buddy and send dozens more. Of course not everyone does this. Actually most do not. But I can never tell which ones are going to be like that.

Another problem I have is that names on emails mean almost nothing to me. I've met you, Lone Wolf, but even now I'm wracking my brain to come up with your real name and I can't.

So imagine yourself getting 5 emails today, one of which is from Bob Jones who you think you may have met once but you're not sure. One is from someone who is about to kill herself unless you tell her the Secret Answer To Everything. Two are saying they think your books are swell. One is seventeen paragraphs long with no punctuation or spacing. And one is from Bob Jones.

Plus you have four emails from places who've invited you to speak. These contain complicated logistical questions involving travel in foreign countries. You have all the usual spam. And there's one from an ex-girlfriend is chastising you for doing something you thought was pretty fun at the time and assumed she did too because she giggled the whole way through it.*

What's with the Soto conspiracy to debunk Dharma Transmission? Is it because there are no real masters in the Soto sect, and therefore they have nothing to measure themselves by? Would they prefer Dharma Transmission by committee (which is already happening in some Soto schools right now in Suzuki Roshi's lineage). Or would they rather just make Zen more scholastic, with credits, certificates, and teaching licenses so that any joe-schmo who does the academic dance can make himself a Zen teacher? I think that is what the Soto people want. They want to turn Zen teaching into a watered down form of psychiatry where no one actually realizes or manifests anything. When you put all of this together, you can begin to see the end of Zen in America. Well,It was fun while it lasted.

My mother's mother's mother's mother WAS an affinity group Jew. That makes me 1/2 Octoroon Asher/Benjamin/Dan/Ephraim/Gad/Issachar/Judah/Manasseh/Naphtali//Reuben/Simeon/Zebulon. But then in Idaho, horny guys went after a woman - any women (before they went after the altar boys).

As much as I hate mysterion.. I really don't like to hear him referred to as jewboy. It's sort of funny i suppose but what is to be gained by using his own tactics against him. I hate him for what he says and not for who he is.. I don't know who he is. It's a loving hatred.

I don't know if there's a conspiracy to debunk dharma transmission. But some are doing it.

As for the Suzuki lineage, as far as I'm aware they're not doing transmission by committee. They choose abbots by committee. But that's not quite the same thing. Though abbots do have to be transmitted teachers.

Thank you for explaining the email situation Brad. I sympathize with you (I know I wouldn't want to answer all those emails).

I sent you a message with info about applying for Grad School and asked a couple of questions. It's probably not that important, but I'll resend in case you want to read it (the title "Grad School/Questions") I also sent another one about you possibly coming down to South Ohio to do a 1 or 3 Day-Sit, but I just graduated... and I'm broke... so I don't see that happening anytime soon (or at least til I find a job and build of some cash flow).

I won't email you in the future unless I can definitely sit up a gig or have an urgent question about practice or if it pertains to your or Nishijima's teachings.

Maybe if I pray every, each night I sit there pleading"Send back my dream test baby, She's my main feature"My T V C one five, he, he just Stares back unblinkingSo hologramic,oh my T V C one fiveOne of these nights I may justJump down that rainbow way, be with my baby, thenWe'll spend some time togetherSo hologramic, oh my T V C one fiveMy baby's in there someplaceLove's rating in the skySo hologramic,oh my T V C one five

Maybe if I pray every, each night I sit there pleading"Send back my dream test baby, She's my main feature"My T V C one five, he, he just Stares back unblinkingSo hologramic,oh my T V C one fiveOne of these nights I may justJump down that rainbow way, be with my baby, thenWe'll spend some time togetherSo hologramic, oh my T V C one fiveMy baby's in there someplaceLove's rating in the skySo hologramic,oh my T V C one five

"And this isn’t the only problem to reconcile when we look at Zen transmission. A close examination of the traditional lineage charts, such as the one which follows this essay, raises many questions. First, the entire Indian transmission makes no historical sense. It lists the most prominent Indian Buddhist sages more or less chronologically, but then throws together teachers of various and sometimes contending schools, people who have no obvious connection other than being Buddhist and Indian, as if they were in a line leading back to the Buddha and forward to the Zen schools when in fact they are not.

Even the beginnings of the Chinese line are at least questionable. The charts don’t become “historical” within any reasonable usage of that term until the seventh century, with Daman Hongren, the “fifth ancestor” of the Chinese line. And anyone who reads further into the literature of Zen knows there are numerous “breaks” in many of the lines from after that point. Anyone who has observed the formation of Zen institutions in the west or in the east can cite people who appear to have received Dharma transmission for reasons other than their awakened state. In fact in some of the Japanese-derived Soto lineages awakening is not even considered a necessary prerequisite for receiving Dharma transmission.

So, what really is actually going on? Most scholars agree the concept of “lineage” arises in early medieval China. It is part of a movement that on one hand acknowledges the Chinese culture’s emphasis on proper relationships between parents and children, and between teachers and students. On the other hand, it makes claims of antiquity for what was in reality a new school."

James Myoun Ford (b. July 17, 1948), aka James Ishmael Ford, is a Soto Zen teacher and cofounder of the Boundless Way Zen school, with colleagues David Dayan Rynick and Melissa Myozen Blacker. An ordained Unitarian Universalist minister and published author, Ford trained with Houn Jiyu Kennett roshi and received Dharma transmission in the Soto Zen tradition from her in 1971. He also pursued a more than twenty year study of koans with John Tarrant roshi (Harada-Yasutani), now of the Pacific Zen Institute. Upon completion of his formal training with Tarrant roshi, Ford received inka shomei

When the Catholic church claims 'apostolic succession', what she is saying is that her bishops and especially her Pope have received their office and the 'charism' or gift to fulfill that office through a sacramental laying on of hands called 'Holy Orders'. This office and charism - the fable goes - has been handed down in a direct and traceable line from the Apostles, bishop after bishop and Pope after Pope.

It assumes a magical power in the ritual; the ritual itself confers the charism and the office.

Most discount this entirely as hogwash.

Historically, the first 12 or so (18?) "popes" are highly questionable inventions. Remember, the Hileria was performed in 436 CE and the toleration of the religion was not the adoption of the religion.

Todd Pratum (of Pratum Books R.I.P. in Berkeley, etc., he's now distributing through Fields) said the same thing to me once years ago, that is, that he didn't know much about Thelema; in fact he gave me a long lecture about the "evils" of Crowleyanity not knowing that I could give a rat's ass. He turned around and started handling the books after he looked into it and found the research solid enough for such ethereal stuff...Yeah, its a religion but at least the OTO make no bones about the content of the sacrements! I dabbled back in the day when R.A.W., Dr. Hyatt, and Lon M. D. and "nick" were alive (well, Lon's still at it, and "nick" makes the ocassional appearance when summoned!).

OK, so now we can all talk about 'realization' and 'awakening'? I thought those were a no-no in soto. So, there is realization / awakening but not kensho or satori? Oh wait, those ARE the japanese words that mean realization / awakening. Or is it just soto dogma that you can't have any sort of emotional upheaval accompanying these realizations? If you get all teary or laugh then you're just experiencing some trippy, rinzai 'satori' and not realization. PLEEEEAAAZE! I've read Dogen since Brad was in diapers and I never got the impression he denigrated satori. So much dogmatic bullshit spewing. I agree with everything Dogen wrote in those passages and I did koan work for years. Brad should stop trying to paint rinzai zen and satori as some aberation or false teaching.

That wasn't meant to be especially anti-semitic (I would not deny the Holocaust--or say the 3-4 polish catholics who were killed by the nazis--most of them lutheran--some catholic officers-- and more than a few "mischling") but Mysti's comments generally demonstrate a unflexible, irrational nature which does seem "jewboyish".

that is, approx. 3 million polish catholics who were killed by the nazis.

And Mysti is mistaken re apostolic succession, whether RCC, or mainstream christian churches (ie episcopalian). It's not "merely ritual"-- but had to do with the priest/cleric's education and the appointment by bishops, etc. The RCC did not really have an organized form until about the time of Nicene creed, or Constantine anyway-- (those who think catholic-christian rulers had failings should read about Nero, Genghis Khan, Ottoman pashas, chinese emperors, etc).

Hindu-buddhist tradition has something like apostolic tradition as well (transmission of the dharma ? ). Mysti can't just appoint himself Guru--well, maybe Comment Guru.

If you look at the history of Buddhism, ordination has always played a role. Like from the begging of Buddha's teaching, right?

Buddha didn't do these things for mystical or esoteric reasons. He created what were perceived to be helpful patterns and guides with his fellow sangha members in order to HELP people, to wake up. It's real easy to look at 2500 years of Dharmic practice and tradition, glom on to the statements within that tradition critiquing that tradition, and just say "we don't need any of that."

"Some of these human beings called teachers and priests and monks are *gasp* human beings and have acted unskillfully! Some of the rituals and ceremonies don't make sense to me or in this culture. Fuck it! Toss it ALL out!"

If this had happened in each country it entered, we wouldn't have Dharma at all. Is Dharma magic, insuring freedom from our messy humanity? Duh.

Brad, your teacher was unconventional, as was his teacher before him. Sawaki was a reformer. Did he say get rid of the robe? Or ordination? No. Do we need a priesthood like the one you are rightfully skeptical of in Japan? No. And very few Zennists in America would disagree. We don't need fanning sutra "readings" and all the fanciful (actually often pseudo shinto/anim-ist) protection hoo-ha, etc of the Buddhist culture in Japan, or anywhere else.

What we do need is to be freakin respectful and curious about the tradition and what constitutes it, and see what is there that is useful. I personally agree with a couple millenia of individuals who form the bulwark of Dharmic development that Dharma is often best and most eloquently expressed in ritual and in forms, more so even than words, and that having individuals who commit themselves to practice and study and sharing that with others is essential. The way that commitment is sometimes made is through ordination. I think the Western sangha will always have a need and a place for an ordained sangha, and part of what we as human beings do and need is some modicum of authentic ritual. People are free to find what level of that works for them, always asking 'what is the real meaning of this?'

But how arrogant to just say we don't need any sort of ordained community of any kind. It's like we're back to those tired "beat zen, square zen, or zen?" arguments of the '50s. Brad, you are just Beatnik in a Sex Pistols t-shirt (and both are terribly tired).