Removed USA backing of Israel and let the true balance of power emerge.

Re-establish the pre-1967 borders, and most notably, after Syria sorts itself out give back the Golan Heights (contrary to what you may have heard, Asssad's regime and the Free Syrian Army are as bad as each other).

How can you justify the suppression of the entire Palestinian people and not just Gaza.

I can understand (I competently disagree with the opinion but ok) that the extremist in Israel can justify the suppression of the people in Gaza (lets just all admit it is in fact the biggest prison in the world).

But at the same time how can you justify the suppression of the Palestinians in Israel and in the West Bank. Even if the West Bank has more to go for compared to Gaza it is still in some ways a large prison (limited movement = prison). And lets not forget to mention the demolishing of Palestinians homes and building homes for Jewish settlers.

A few years ago I've read a article about how Palestinians in Israel got removed from their homes (some which pre-dates the state of Israel) and at the very land a park was going to be build.

You base that one something or just a hunch...
After all you failed to even aknowledge that a conflict such as this have more than one party responsible for it.

Im quite certain of it.. look what happens to countries that try to make peace with Israel.. riots and well extremist attacks. Hamas has no interest in peace.. if they did they wouldn't hide behind the Egyptian PM visit to fire off rockets again into Israel

Unfortunately with this topic isn't *cough* a key factor in the conflicts surrounding the area since the area has great importance for multiple *cough*s. The whole conflict began as a result of *cough* war hundreds of years ago, and the movement of that *cough* group back into the area. The splitting of the nation that was there based on *cough*, leading to tensions and multiple wars between the two *cough* groups. Understandable there are concerns of it become a flame thread but *cough* is one of the key issues involved in the conflict.

But i think a big thing we need to bare in mind with Israel's POV, is its been a year of instability for the nations surronding them (Syria is still on going). Israel will be vary cautious of what the will do, they have protected their current borders and as such are safe, if they were to give land back the new borders would currently be unsecure and the possibility of extremists (or even nations as a whole uniting to attack) threaten their security.

Until the area in general stabilises and attacks, stop nothing will happen. (Israel will be very unlikely to yield land while missiles are being launched into their country, because if they did; their civilians would more likely be placed close to the new borders, crowding their people, and there is a large border , more land becomes potential targets of which will be more densely packed.)

Apparently a couple rockets have landed just outside Jerusalem now, with air raid sirens going off and such.

'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
Or a yawing hole in a battered head
And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
And there they lay I damn me eyes
All lookouts clapped on Paradise
All souls bound just contrarywise, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

you mean after depriving them of their property, taking it from arabs and giving it to their own people, walling them in a ghetto and starving them, depriving them of supplies and medicines Israel will eventually implement a final solution? that sounds familiar..

ofc the fact that big gas deposits have been found off the gaza coast have nothing to do with any of it. meanwhile children on both sides are killed and maimed.

You forgot "enslaving them, doing medical research on them, chopping off their limbs to see how they play shortie-ball, dressing them up as barbies for photoshoots and the all-time favourite using them as cloth hangers" in your list of exaggerated lie-filled propaganda.

I say, as long as they keep indiscriminately shooting missiles and rockets at civilians, and the IDF keeps tactically destroying terrorist hot-spots, the truth and justice lies with Israel. In fact, Israel could as easily go in and kill civilians indiscriminately (Which they aren't, despite all the lies spread by people with their own pro-terrorist agenda), and still be on the same page.

We are talking about the same people who go out on the streets and celebrated Hurricane Sandy killing some people in the US. We are talking about the same organization starving their own people, holding the whole of Gaza in a curfew, randomly shooting at people on the streets, and denying all contact with the West Bank's government (Which has more hopes of becoming a country at some point than Gaza under Hamas ever will).

I say it again: All ye brainwashed blind supporters, peel the scale from thine eyes and go visit Gaza for yourselves. Not as part of some faggotry-fag peace-boat trying to run a blockade. Just travel there. We'll see how much your support them then.

---------- Post added 2012-11-16 at 05:40 PM ----------

Originally Posted by ati87

Let me ask the following question.

How can you justify the suppression of the entire Palestinian people and not just Gaza.

I can understand (I competently disagree with the opinion but ok) that the extremist in Israel can justify the suppression of the people in Gaza (lets just all admit it is in fact the biggest prison in the world).

But at the same time how can you justify the suppression of the Palestinians in Israel and in the West Bank. Even if the West Bank has more to go for compared to Gaza it is still in some ways a large prison (limited movement = prison). And lets not forget to mention the demolishing of Palestinians homes and building homes for Jewish settlers.

A few years ago I've read a article about how Palestinians in Israel got removed from their homes (some which pre-dates the state of Israel) and at the very land a park was going to be build.

Israel creates his own enemies

Nah, propaganda creates enemies.
I can only say, Goebbles would be proud of today's media. They managed to keep his agenda alive without caricatures or even plainly speaking. Subtle lies and twisted truths are all that he needed! If only he knew back then... Maybe we wouldn't have this problem nowadays!
/sarcasm off.

'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
Or a yawing hole in a battered head
And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
And there they lay I damn me eyes
All lookouts clapped on Paradise
All souls bound just contrarywise, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

Dunno, there are powerful arguments against that. US, EU, neighbouring countries. A full scale invasion is very risky.
I think and hope it is just the usual rattling of swords.

Hamas want to show they do something but are well aware that they wouldnt stand a chanse in a campaign. Israel know from previous events that the situation will become too bad since they have a habbit of killing a bunch of civilians or hit some UN building, hospital etc.

Not to mention they are gathering support for strikes at Iran, they wouldnt wanne compromise that work by doing anything too extreme in Gaza.

Dunno, there are powerful arguments against that. US, EU, neighbouring countries. A full scale invasion is very risky.
I think and hope it is just the usual rattling of swords.

Hamas want to show they do something but are well aware that they wouldnt stand a chanse in a campaign. Israel know from previous events that the situation will become too bad since they have a habbit of killing a bunch of civilians or hit some UN building, hospital etc.

Not to mention they are gathering support for strikes at Iran, they wouldnt wanne compromise that work by doing anything too extreme in Gaza.

But thanks to it, you're all forgetting Syria keeps murdering its own people. The leader of Hamas sits in Syria. Sometimes people try too hard to find the circumference of a circle and simply forget how to do 1+1

Dunno, there are powerful arguments against that. US, EU, neighbouring countries. A full scale invasion is very risky.
I think and hope it is just the usual rattling of swords.

Hamas want to show they do something but are well aware that they wouldnt stand a chanse in a campaign. Israel know from previous events that the situation will become too bad since they have a habbit of killing a bunch of civilians or hit some UN building, hospital etc.

Not to mention they are gathering support for strikes at Iran, they wouldnt wanne compromise that work by doing anything too extreme in Gaza.

I think the rocket strikes in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem give them all the international justification they need, honestly. They've already called up 16,000 reservist troops.

Actually, the rockets landing in Tel Aviv were made in Iran, so that may even help their case against Iran.

Last edited by Reeve; 2012-11-16 at 04:11 PM.

'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
Or a yawing hole in a battered head
And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
And there they lay I damn me eyes
All lookouts clapped on Paradise
All souls bound just contrarywise, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

Countries do not OWN land, they CONTROL it. Palestine obviously lost CONTROL of their land and now someone else controls it.

Right. Except Palestine didn't have their land conquered, they had their land given away, which means it was stolen. Plus the UN doesn't allow for wars of conquest anymore, which is why Israel has been constantly attacked by the organisation.

In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.

Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.

I'm not sure we could enforce that. America *might* be able to forcefully occupy Israel. And that's only if we put the full weight of our military into the effort, and were willing to sustain tens of thousands of casualties.

As for the notion that the EU or Russia could take military action against Israel without being slaughtered upon their arrival, I cannot take it seriously.