WHO CARES, I thought we bought bikes for fun and enjoyment. I own a BMW and like it allot, ShortonSKill has a VStrom and likes it allot, I thought thats what its about. It would be boring if we all had the same bike. If I wanted to do the most practicle thing I'd buy a Honda Civic.

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"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who niether enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat"

Why would I want any bike over 10 years old?
Parking outside? You have a point. However, anyone who must do this obviously purchased beyond their means. Unable to afford a proper house and buying expensive toys? What would this person's retirement account look like?

Monty python have your annual award waiting for you - 'upper' class twit of the year.

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2006 Buell XB9Sx - You never know what'll work till you try it

Why would I want any bike over 10 years old? Outdated technology. Electronics that can't be depended upon.
Parking outside? You have a point. However, anyone who must do this obviously purchased beyond their means. Unable to afford a proper house and buying expensive toys? What would this person's retirement account look like?

You are a complete dildo.

__________________It's a friggen motorcycle, it's not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The windnoise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you shit your pants every now and then.

WHO CARES, I thought we bought bikes for fun and enjoyment. I own a BMW and like it allot, ShortonSKill has a VStrom and likes it allot, I thought thats what its about. It would be boring if we all had the same bike. If I wanted to do the most practicle thing I'd buy a Honda Civic.

Complete agreement from my corner. The best bike for rider X is the one that makes him smile.

Since this thread is about reliability, it seemed appropriate to give BMW the beating they deserves. I love BMW's GS. Best adventure bike in every comparison I've read. The Strom will be replaced with a GS or KTM in a few years. While the Strom makes me smile, I want variety.

Data indicates that BMW has second place reliability. Perhaps at KTM levels. Advertising this sad fact will bring about improvement. Hopefully before my next purchase.

That bit of slang has multiple definitions. Care to elaborate with a more intellectual response?

I think that you understand the intended meaning.

__________________It's a friggen motorcycle, it's not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The windnoise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you shit your pants every now and then.

First, Suzuki's 12-mo warranties are unlimited miles like virtually all of the other Japanese bikes and most bikes in general. BMW is a bit of an exception in offering a 3-yr warranty in the states on most bikes, but you can buy an extended warranty for virtually any bike for a few hundred. So you can basically match a BMW warranty at a small extra cost. It's really a pretty minor point.

On the "cheesy component" comment, again, Suzuki uses basically the same cheesy components that are on competitive Japanese bikes. You really have to be splitting hairs to draw meaningful fit/finish differences between the big four Japanese mfgs - they all use the same sub-suppliers and even mfg many of their bikes in the same factories, so the differences are small.

I agree BMWs have somewhat better components and fit/finish, particularly in things like accessories. A BMW heated grip installation or factory hard bag is in a whole different class from a Suzuki. Of course you pay for that - heated grips are nearly $300 on most BMWs and its not hard to spend half of a V-Strom on options and accessories for a top-end BMW.

I suspect that BMW's high price has something to do with expensive German labor laws and an over valued dollar.

Ummmmmm . . . . by "over valued dollar," I assume you mean the opposite. In other words, the exchange rate between the Euro and the dollar, which 5 years ago allowed U.S. persons to purchase Euros for about .75, now require us to pay approximately 1.25. This had the effect of raising the true price that we paid for European imports. Most manufacturers of consumer durables, though, compensated by reducing their profit margins and "took it in the shorts" in order to spur continued sales. Not sure how it affected BMW, but I don't recall their prices increasing significantly.

Ummmmmm . . . . by "over valued dollar," I assume you mean the opposite. In other words, the exchange rate between the Euro and the dollar, which 5 years ago allowed U.S. persons to purchase Euros for about .75, now require us to pay approximately 1.25. This had the effect of raising the true price that we paid for European imports. Most manufacturers of consumer durables, though, compensated by reducing their profit margins and "took it in the shorts" in order to spur continued sales. Not sure how it affected BMW, but I don't recall their prices increasing significantly.

Awhile back it was mentioned that BMW owners are more experienced bikers than someone who would buy a bike like a DL650, who tend to be first time owners.
BMW owners tend to maybe have more $$$ than a Strom owner, does that mean they are smarter buyers?
At my local BMW dealer they have TONS of VERY low mileage Beemers, Hell they look brand new maybe 800 to 2000mi on them. I asked why so many like new used beemers?. The salesman said excutives, lawyers, company owners buy'em then trade'em in in a few months, and he was right, while I was there I spotted several suits wandering around the bikes.

So my question is, are these (for the most part) the so called experienced BMW owners we're talking about?
With buying habits like this how in the hell would you know how well made they really are ?

I can't afford to buy a new bike every time I get an urge, as a result most folks like me keep and use a bike a LONG time. All my rides in over 40 years have been thoroughly tested. I routinely pick up old Honda CBs, SLs from the original owners well over 30 years old that for the most part still perform well.

I had thought about going broke to buy a beemer BUT it always came down to the reliability issue in proportion to the amount spent that kept me from taking the plunge.

This is quite subjective, for it has has already been pointed out, fit, finish and level of materials used puts Suzuki behind BMW...so again, surveys are so vague and ambiguous .

For the record, I currently own neither of these brands.

Your position relies on the concern that JD Power MIGHT have made a poor survey. Sample selection techniques and wording of individual questions are key in determining whether the survey was valid. The questions are grouped into larger categories. It appears that you're looking at larger categories to make judgements about individual questions.

While I agree with your question,in principle, JD Power is quite reputable. They've been in doing this stuff since 1968. More than enough time to learn proper survey building.

Are you looking at categories to make inferences about survey details? If not, what am I missing?

Monty python have your annual award waiting for you - 'upper' class twit of the year.

My comment was made because I'm solid middle class.

I'm from the generation that cannot expect Social Security in retirement. Hence, I must be careful with money. Assets before toys with an eye for the future. I exited college and worked for seven years before purchasing my first motorcycle.

However, as a twit, I must point out your choice in verbs. "Monty Python has" rather than "Monty Python have."

I'm from the generation that cannot expect Social Security in retirement. Hence, I must be careful with money. Assets before toys with an eye for the future. I exited college and worked for seven years before purchasing my first motorcycle.

However, as a twit, I must point out your choice in verbs. "Monty Python has" rather than "Monty Python have."

that would depend on whether you determine Monty Python to be 1st person, or second person singular, would it not?

second perspective on your response: why would you want an adventure bike thats stored inside? do you really think that striking viking, and others who LIVE off of their bikes for 3 months+ find a quaint, comfy motel every night? Guess they must be beyond their low-class means, but wait, isnt this ADVENTURE rider? How can I store my bike inside in the middle of nowehere Kind of like saying ' Oh no, my bike hasnt been waxed in a year, and I have scuff marks on my hand guards'!

A comment on 'living beyond their means' can ONLY be done to incite argument, and troll for trouble. Frankly, if you've got to be THAT careful with your money, I'd say that YOU shouldnt be on an ADV bike, (or possibly any bike) since, by definition, they're used for challanging riding, and you risk totalling your investment. (your alternate option is that you dont actually ADV ride, and are just a poser...so take your pick)

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2006 Buell XB9Sx - You never know what'll work till you try it