Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 20:58:33 -0700 (MST)
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001 - Roxanne Rieske
Subject: Introduction and a few replys
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 13:31:29 -0700
Hello! I'm new to this list, and want'd to say hi to everyone. My name's
Roxanne and I'm a professional baker. I work for a Scandinavian bakery
in the Denver area. My specialities are pies and breads. Has anyone ever
baked a pie in a hearth oven? I am yearning to do that, but as yet have no
access to an hearth oven. I can just imagine what it would do for a fruit pie.
At any rate, I would like to reply to a few things :)
Carolyn wrote:
">Yes, you COULD proof a rustic loaf in a cheap China-made basket lined with
> unwashable fabric of unknown origin, or line an ordinary bowl with a
> linen dish towel, but it won't be the same.
Technically it is the same. The results are usually the same. Most bakeries
(artisian or not) can't afford to spend the money required to buy 30+ of
these basket for their operations (take my word for it, owning and
operating a bakery does not make you alot of money). Their only options
are the alternatives. I bet you almost all the bakeries in your area
producing these breads are using mostly cheap cost-plus baskets. I mean,
really, 25 dollars or a buck a piece? To a bakery operator the cost
difference means a lot. You do the math.
To a home baker, the cost may not mean much. And if it doesn't, then by all
means buy as many baskets as you want. But when you can't afford the cash,
you use what you can. Me? well I'd rather spend the buck on the basket and
spend the real money on the flour. Which is what really makes the difference.
Shirley Lipscomb wrote:
"I am in search of a recipe for dutch crunch bread"
I'm really fond of Peter Rheinhart's Dutch Crunch recipe. It's in the
"Bread Baker's Apprentice." Unfortunately, my copy is at the bakery, so I
can't post it. Perhaps someone will post it soonfor you?
Irene wrote:
"My starter did well the first 36 hours, then fell, not to be revived the
next day. What did I do wrong? Can I still save it?"
Sounds like a case of too much yeast and not enough food. If you can't revive
it, it's probably dead by now. If you are doing a wild yeast starter, once
the yeast are captured and they start feeding, it's a really good idea to
feed the starter every 8 hrs during the first 48 hour period. This ensures an
active colony. Leave it at room temperature while it's colonizing. Once it's
active refrigerate it and feed it every 3 to 5 days. After feeding it, leave
at room temperature till it starts to get bubbly, then put it back in the
fridge.
If you have questions on the proper way to feed it, feel free to e-mail me
If you are making a starter from commercial yeast, it's a good idea to use
SAF Gold yeast. This is a special strand of yeast cultivated for acidic
environments. Starters are acidic and the typical strand of yeast (S.
cervasai-I know I spelled that wrong) will die in highly acidic environments.
When using a commercial yeast, I ferment the starter at room temp until
bubbly, feed it and then pop it in the fridge overnight. I'll feed it the
next day and then feed it every 3 days from there.
I hope all this information helps :)
Roxanne, The Nutty Baker
--
"they say you're only half alive till you give extra whitening a try" --jewel
"an angels face is tricky to wear constantly" --purple people
"you don't have to like me for who I am, but we'll see what you're made of
by what you make of me" --ani
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From: "Max Prola"
Subject: Re: proofing baskets
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 13:49:43 -0000
I also have made my own baskets as described in several recent postings. I
use wheat flour to prevent sticking and found it unnecesary after a few
usings. I store the baskets in large plastic shopping bags.
Instead of plastic wrap to cover the loaves, I use (and re-use) a shower
cap, preferably of the cheaper, thinner variety which is more flexible and
can be obtained free of charge in most hotels.
Best wishes,
Max Prola
Cheshire, England
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From: Rosemary Moore
Subject: re: bannetons, brotforms, etc.
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 11:33:25 -0500
According to Maggie Glezer in her Artisan Breadbaking across America
(p.10), the Della Fattoria bakery uses plastic tortilla chip baskets as
bannetons. You can get them at restaurant supply stores. She says that the
baskets are "just as nonstick and even easier to care for than the imported
baskets." On the other hand, if you really want the imported baskets, why
not get them? I'm in grad school now, so I use mixing bowls lined with
heavy linen. But I wouldn't turn down the more expensive ones as a gift!
Rosemary Moore
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From: Brianjwoody@aol.com
Subject: Re: Digest bread-bakers.v102.n002
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 07:56:04 EST
Carolyn wrote:
> With all due respect, the recent posts about banneton include too much
> whining about the relative cost of these special dough-rising baskets.
> ...
> Yes, you COULD proof a rustic loaf in a cheap China-made basket lined
> with unwashable fabric of unknown origin, or line an ordinary bowl with
> a linen dish towel, but it won't be the same. The characteristic imprint
> made by the beautiful craftsmanship of an Austrian-made brotformen cannot
> be duplicated by these cut-rate means. You get what you pay for!
> ...
That would be a good argument if it were not normal to buy stuff exported to
America, from England say (made there too|!), and buy it in US at 60% of the
price. Look at CDs if you don't believe me. I have bought German stuff,
clearly marked "made in Germany" in the US at nearly half the price in
Germany, ditto France. The fair price yes.
Regards, Brian
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From: qoe@us.inter.net
Subject: Re: anyone baking?
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:17:57 -0800
Well, I finally quit reading and rereading Peter Reinhart's new book. I
just love it. I baked once again the Potato Rosemary bread. This is the
recipe I tested for him and it's wonderful. It says the roasted garlic is
optional, but I think it's a necessity! Do make this recipe you'll be glad
you went to all the effort. I purposely froze leftover mashed potatoes, so
I'd have them for making this recipe.
Regards,
Lynne
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From: Nifcon@aol.com
Subject: Pedro - yeast
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 13:04:40 EST
Pedro
I couldn't agree more with your attitude to yeast because it's identical to
mine. It's far too easy to get hung up on different kinds of yeast and all
too common for bakers to blame a failed bread on the yeast when the fault
lies in their technique.
As for quantities, I measure in grams for yeast but that's just because I
weigh everything routinely. If I put a little too much yeast on the scale
then I don't worry because the difference in the finished bread produced by
10 - 20 % variation in the yeast quantity is negligible.
I occasionally buy packages of compressed live yeast from a local store and
the packages are just lumps off a brick of yeast, clingfilmed with the
weight on the price label. If a recipe calls for 25 grams yeast and the
package weighs 30 grams, do I cut 1/6 off the lump of yeast? Of course not!
I just use the 30 grams with no fear of derailing the bread. Born to be
wild that's me!
I've banged on about this before but I think there is a tendency on the
part of some cooks to rely too much on the recipe and not trust their own
judgement and taste. We've all seen recipes which specify every ingredient
down to the last 1/16 teaspoon and do we trust them because of their exactness?
The "Yeast Debate" reminds me of the "All-purpose Flour vs Bread Flour"
argument , the "Grams or Cups" squabble, the "Metal Pans vs Glass Pans"
skirmish, the "Sourdough vs Commercial Yeast" battle, the "Pizza Stones vs
Quarry Tiles" campaign and the "Mixer vs ABM" war. All good wrangling fun
but often irrelevant to daily bread making and very confusing to a beginner.
John Wright
Yorkshire, England (Any other Yorkshires in the world?)
"That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
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From: ehgf@mindspring.com
Subject: Sally Lunn, Bread Baskets and Wood Fired Ovens
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 03:28:03 +0800
Hi All,
Recently there have been posts explaining the derivation of Sally Lunn
bread. Most have cited that this bread may have been named for a woman
called Sally Lunn who sold these cakes. I don't recall seeing the other
explanation which I find more credible. Sally Lunn is believed, by some, to
be a corruption of the French "soleil et lune" or "sun and moon" which was
the name of a similar yeasted cake. Just as we have corrupted the
"croissant" into a "crescent roll", I can imagine that the English
corrupted the name of a bread that they admired and adopted for their own.
As to the bread basket business, here is my take. There are baskets and
there are baskets. I have only used the baskets that I purchased at SFBI
years ago while taking classes there. They were so much less money than
from KA and I didn't have to pay for shipping either. SFBI also sold couche
material and non stick, reusable baking liner by the yard which was very
cost effective. I am sure that you can use other types of baskets and cloth
(you want something that will not shed or stick to your dough, however). I
am glad that I spent the money for these baskets and I don't think the
price has changed much over the years. I like using "professional" type
equipment. These are made to last and are time tested, guaranteeing
results. Besides, to this bread baker, they are a thing of beauty that sets
them apart from any other type of basket.
I believe that they can be useful for any free form bread. One doesn't
always know if a proofing dough needs that extra support. When using a
basket, one doesn't have to guess. I usually don't line my baskets with
couche linen as I love the look of the pattern the basket leaves on the bread.
I have found an easy way to evenly coat the inside of the basket to prevent
sticking. If your dough sticks, unmolding will deflate it, destroying all
your hard work. Dip a small strainer into the flour of your choice and
then gently shake strainer over basket sifting the flour in an even manner.
A fairly thick coating is best as too little flour will allow the dough to
stick and too much flour will harmlessly stay in the basket ready to be
tapped out later.
I am thinking of building an adobe oven using the Sunset Magazine's(Aug
'98) instructions. I am also reading "The Bread Buillders" by Daniel Wing
and Alan Scott and "Build Your Own Earth Oven" by Kiko Denzer to help me
plan and design this oven. I reasoned that Sunset's "weekend" project would
be the easiest and cheapest to build and would allow me to see if the bread
tastes better or if baking this way is worth the trouble. If I loved the
results, the oven could be easily broken apart and a more permanent, brick
oven could take it's place. I'd like to hear from my fellow forum members
any thoughts or experiences they have had with building, baking, and care
taking of wood burning ovens.
TIA
Ellen aka Gormay
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From: Paul and Ruth Provance
Subject: Dutch Crunch
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 14:50:38 -0500
To find some more recipes for Dutch Crunch Bread, go to the archives for
this list. You will find the link to the website at the bottom of the
digest. Type in "Dutch Crunch" under "Search," and there you go! I found
five different digests listed that had recipes, not counting the one in
1991 with a question like yours.
Have fun!
Ruth
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From: "Lee Karam"
Subject: Re: B&D bread machine
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 17:06:42 -0600
Gene,
I bought B&D bread machine less than a year ago. With their
instruction/recipe booklet they gave following 2 phone numbers for help:
Canada 1-800-465-6070
US 1-800-231-9786
Lee
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From: Alexgejp@aol.com
Subject: Yeast question
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 19:16:45 EST
I received a Better Homes and Gardens Best Bread Machine Recipes cookbook
for Christmas. With only a couple of exceptions, all the recipes for 1 1/2
lb. loaves call for only 1 teaspoon of yeast. This seems such a small
amount of yeast since all the recipes that I usually cook call for 2 to 2
1/2 teaspoons of yeast. I would appreciate anyone who has cooked recipes
(even one) from this book writing to let me know their results.
TIA.
Joy Alexander
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From: Melissa A Uttendorfsky
Subject: KA Mixers
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 19:55:16 -0500
I have been following the posts on the KA mixers and wondered if anyone
else has had a similar problem. I got my KA almost 13 years ago when I got
married and now the coating on the mixing paddle is coming off. My mixing
paddle and dough hook are both coated in white paint or some other coating
to match the mixer color (I guess). Has anyone else had this happen? Is it
time to find a new mixer? Should I contact KA about the problem? Any
suggestions appreciated.
Melissa
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From: Thomas Brown
Subject: regarding bannetons-
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:18:55 -0500
Hello everyone from here in Virginia! I have been following the equipment
discussions with even more interest than the recipes! But I do agree with
Pedro about 'cheating' on the yeast amount! oops - there goes my license too!
Regarding bannetons - I am a little puzzled - having never used one. I get
the impression from the posts that they do not go in the oven; the bread is
only 'proofed' for its' final rising, and removed -placed on a baking
sheet(?) for the 'heat treatment'.. I am confident that if I tried to
removed a proofed/risen loaf from a basket, it would be quite flat/un-risen
by the time I got it to the oven. My levitation skills are not what they
need to be to accomplish this! Can someone that knows about using these
baskets enlighten me how not to turn every loaf into pizza?
tom
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From: Reggie Dwork
Subject: bread class
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:16:28 -0800
There is a wonderful sounding class at Sur La Table, Los Gatos, CA ...
Making Indian Breads at Home
A Hands-On-Class
Ruta Kahate
http://www.surlatable.com/cooking/pdfs/02WS_Los_Gatos.pdf
You need Adobe Acrobat Reader to view this file.
Reggie
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From: Kathleen
Subject: Walnut Raisin Bread
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 06:08:37 -0500
I don't know why this recipe has pepper in the ingredient list. I suspect
that the pepper prevents it from having a sweet taste. Well, I was
suspicious of it as an ingredient and only added half the pepper. It
leaves a very slightly warm feeling on the tongue. I husband, being a
chile head and probably having burnt out taste buds, could not taste
it. We like the bread, but, personally, I would have preferred cinnamon to
black pepper.
kathleen
* Exported from MasterCook *
Walnut Raisin Bread
Recipe By : Moosewood Restaurant New Classics, page 403
Serving Size : 1 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories : Breads Fruits
Grains And Cereals *Breads
Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
1 cup warm milk
1 cup warm water
2 packages dry yeast
3 tablespoons sugar
3 tablespoons vegetable oil or butter
at room temperature
2 teaspoons salt
2 teaspoons coarsely ground black pepper
2 cups whole wheat flour
1/2 cup cornmeal
2 cups unbleached white flour -- up to 3
1 cup chopped walnuts
1 1/2 cups raisins
Yields two 9-inch round loaves. Prep and kneading time: 35
minutes. Rising time: about 2 1/2 hours. Baking about 30 minutes
A loaf of Walnut-Raisin Whole Wheat Bread from Bittersweet Baking in
Jacksonville, Vermont, made its way to Ithaca with Patti Harville, the
sister of Moosewood cooks Susan Harville and Nancy Lazarus. Nancy loved
the bread so much that she called Janet McGrath in Vermont to ask for the
recipe. We made some adjustments to accommodate home baking, and we thank
Janet for graciously sharing her expertise.
In a large bowl, combine the milk, water, yeast, and 1 tablespoon of the
sugar until the yeast dissolves. Set aside in a warm place until the yeast
foams, about 10 minutes.
With a large spoon, mix in the remaining sugar, the oil or butter, salt,
pepper, whole wheat flour, and cornmeal. Vigorously stir in 2 to 3 cups of
white flour, one cup at a time, until a soft ball forms. Turn the dough
out onto a lightly floured board and knead for about 10 minutes, adding
more flour as needed to prevent sticking.
Add the walnuts and raisins to the dough and knead until well incorporated
and evenly distributed, about 3 minutes. Place the dough in a large oiled
bowl, cover with a clean, damp cloth, and set in a warm place to rise until
doubled in size, about 1 to 1 1/2 hours.
Punch down the dough, and divide it into halves. Press each half into a
buttered 9-inch round cake pan. Set in a warm place to rise until doubled,
about 1/2 to 1 hour
Preheat the oven to 350F. Then bake for about 30 minutes, until golden on
top and hollow-sounding when tapped on the bottom. Cool on a rack.
PER 1-OUNCE SERVING: CALORIES, 2.4 G PROTEIN, 2.8 G FAT, 13.8 G
CARBOHYDRATES, 0.5 G SATURATED FATTY ACIDS, 0.4 MG CHOLESTEROL, 103.2 MG
SODIUM, 1.4 G TOTAL DIETARY FIBER
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From: Renee & Aaron
Subject: Looking for a proofing box
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 10:35:58 -0800
Hi,
I am looking for a small (not a cabinet) proofing box to use for one or two
loaves to use at home. Any suggestins where I might purhase one?
Thank-you
Renee Chandler
--
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From: Kathleen
Subject: Three Seed Whole Wheat Rolls
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 06:10:19 -0500
This is a very nice roll recipe. I've made it several times in the last
few weeks. It only makes a dozen or so, so is perfect if you are looking
for a whole grain type roll in small quantity.
* Exported from MasterCook *
Three Seed Whole Wheat Rolls
Recipe By : Moosewood Restaurant New Classics, page 401
Serving Size : 12 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories : Breads Buns And Rolls
*Breads
Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
1 tablespoon dry yeast
1/4 cup warm water -- (105F to 115F)
1 tablespoon sugar
3/4 cup milk
1/4 cup vegetable oil
1 teaspoon salt
1 cup whole wheat bread flour
1 1/4 cups unbleached white flour
1/4 cup sunflower seeds
1 tablespoon poppy seeds
1 tablespoon sesame seeds
Yields 12 rolls. Preparation time: 25 minutes. Rising time: 30 to 40
minutes. Baking time: 15 to 20 minutes
What could be better than fresh bread, warm from the oven, for a dinner
party or an everyday family meal? These rolls are jeweled with poppy,
sunflower, and sesame seeds, which add nutrition and attractiveness, but
they can be made with fewer kinds of seeds. We suggest always using
sunflower seeds, however, which are particularly nice because of their crunch.
Lightly oil a baking sheet.
In a small bowl, mix the yeast, warm water, and sugar and set aside to
proof. In a small pan, warm the milk, oil, and salt to between 105F and
115F and then transfer to a large bowl. When the yeast has dissolved and
is foamy, add it to the milk mixture. Add the whole wheat and white flours
and the sunflower, poppy and sesame seeds and mix well.
Turn the dough out onto a floured surface and knead for 5 to 10 minutes,
until smooth and elastic, adding more flour as necessary. Divide into 12
equal pieces and roll into balls. Place the balls of dough a couple of
inches apart on the prepared baking sheet. Cover with a clean, damp towel
and put in a warm place for 30 to 40 minutes, until almost doubled in size.
When rising is almost complete, preheat the oven to 400F. Bake the rolls
for 12 to 15 minutes, until golden brown. Cool on a rack.
PER 1.8-OUNCE SERVING: 152 CALORIES, 4.1 G PROTEIN, 7.2 G FAT, 18.7 G
CARBOHYDRATES, 1.7 G SATURATED FATTY ACIDS, 1.1 MG CHOLESTEROL, 206.2 MG
SODIUM, 2 G TOTAL DIETARY FIBER
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From: "C T Skoumbourdis"
Subject: Yeastless lavash bread?
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 15:17:42 -0600
My wife and I are interested in making yeastless lavash bread but find no
suitable recipes.
Would appreciate a recipe.
Thanks,
Constantine and Tatiana Skoumbourdis
1859 Carefree Lane
Booneville, AR 72927
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