VIDEO: Jackson Lab, public money, hospital and a charter school at Ave Maria

Talks are already under way for a hospital and charter school next to Jackson Laboratory at Ave Maria, says Maine-based genetics lab vice president and COO Chuck Hewett.
He also says expansion to Collier County will not happen without public money and he is unsure whether the county's finance plan would leave any money to attract other biomedical employers.
Hewett is this week’s guest on Comcast’s "One on One with Jeff Lytle.’’
Video highlights and partial transcripts of that and past interviews are available at naplesnews.com/oneonone.
The entire 30-minute program airs Sunday at noon on Comcast CN14.
Lytle is editorial page/Perspective editor of the Daily News.

Talks are already under way for a hospital and charter school next to Jackson Laboratory at Ave Maria, says Maine-based genetics lab vice president and COO Chuck Hewett.

He also says expansion to Collier County will not happen without public money and he is unsure whether the county's finance plan would leave any money to attract other biomedical employers.

Hewett is this week's guest on Comcast's "One on One with Jeff Lytle.''

Video highlights and partial transcripts of that and past interviews are available at naplesnews.com/oneonone.

The entire 30-minute program airs Sunday at noon on Comcast CN14.

Lytle is editorial page/Perspective editor of the Daily News.

* * *

Lytle: Let's get right to it. Everybody is excited about the science of Jackson Laboratory. We're excited about the potential down the road. Some of us still have sticker shock. This is an expensive project.

On Tuesday we saw the Collier County Commission vote to put a financing mechanism in place for Collier County's share of the bill.

My question to you now is sort of like a card player: is the pot right?

Hewett: We think the pot is right. We've worked very hard, starting eight or nine months ago, to put together a financial plan. We just revetted it. In fact I finalized that revetting yesterday.

It takes a lot of money to create a research institute. We'll have multiple streams of revenues. The state and the county money, absolutely pivotal. National Institute of Health (NIH) research grant revenues will create a little not-for-profit services business to generate revenues; and, of course, our philanthropic campaign, educational programs.

It's going to take all of that working together to make this possible for the Jackson Laboratory and for Collier County.

* * *

Lytle: What do you mean by revetted?

Hewett: I mean we looked at all the assumptions that we made nine or 10 months ago; reran all our financial models — frankly, to be sure that we can still get the job done for the money that is at stake.

* * *

Lytle: OK. We know that the state of Florida is aboard for $130 million. Collier County is aboard for the same mount, not right away, but over a period of five years?

Hewett: Five to 10 years.

* * *

Lytle: Then, can you walk us through the contributions that the others will make, including the Collier family business interests. We've seen them put up land, but we haven't seen any cash money from them yet.

Hewett: Let's start: the National Institute of Health grant money will build over the 10-year period to about $25 million a year. The philanthropic campaign will involve about $100 million in endowment over the course of the 10-year period we'll have to raise. And another total $20 million, or something like a couple of million dollars a year in annual fund support.

Services and education revenues, we anticipate growing that to about $10 million a year over the period, and they should be contributing something in the neighborhood of $3 million in surplus to support the research enterprise.

All in all, over the period, it'll cost between $700 million and $800 million to put the whole thing together and run it. And, as you know, the county's share of that will be about $130 million.

* * *

Lytle: The Collier County commissioners also Tuesday said that before they would give you any money, that they would require seeing a detailed business plan.

I take it that wasn't a surprise to you, and is there anything in that business plan request that concerns you, or is this just part of the process?

Hewett: I think it's part of the process. We've looked at what the Burnham Institute for Medical Research did in Orlando; what Scripps Research Institute did in Jupiter; what Torrey Pines Institute for Molecular Studies in Port St. Lucie, and we're well aware of how these agreements get structured — both with the state and with the local communities.

I think this is just part of how it's done.

* * *

Lytle: Since Collier County is investing so much with you, somewhere down the road, will Collier County become a partner in any of the royalties from the patents?

Hewett: I think that still has to be discussed, Jeff. That's not something that we've ever done anywhere before. It wouldn't be our preference, but it will be a negotiation.

Let's face it, the Economic Development Commission, and the business leadership here in the county invited us to come and do this. We'd love to do it.

But there are still a number of hoops that we have to get through before we know if this is a reality.

* * *

Lytle: Are there potential deal-breakers out there?

Hewett: Absolutely.

* * *

Lytle: Like what?

Hewett: First of all, the state money is not yet 100 percent certain. And if Congress does not approve the same Medicare/Medicaid rate for Florida this coming year, our state money goes away. That would be a deal-breaker.

We need $130 million from the county; $125 million of that has to be in cash. Short of that, we're just not going to be able to do this.

* * *

Lytle: How soon do you need the $125 million?

Hewett: We're still negotiating that, and it depends on what the state money is used for versus what the county money is used for. Some will be used to build the facility. Some will be used to support payroll as we're coming up to speed with the other revenue sources.

We have to work that out between all of the players — ourselves, the county and the state — to see exactly what the timing of the county would be.

* * *

Lytle: Is one of your revenue sources the fees from people who would avail themselves of the genetic, personalized medicine services? They would pay money to have that done.

Hewett: We don't have that built in during the first decade. We see first of all getting started with NIH-sponsored translational research. Then, using that platform very quickly, to develop opportunities to provide services to the pharmaceutical industry, biotech industry and perhaps other academics.

That will involve collaborations with a variety of clinicians, perhaps a medical school or two, to make that happen.

Only over time as we become very confident that we can offer world-class advice do we want to be advising, let's say, physicians about treatment that their patients should have. That's down the road.

* * *

Lytle: You use the term "translational." Would you translate that for me?

Hewett: In the research community we think of basic research at one end, which is sort of fundamental discovery of the biological mechanisms. At the far end is clinical outreach: we call the bench to bedside.

Now, in the middle we're translating what we've learned at the bench into what the doctor can do at the bedside. And so we call that the translational spectrum. You move from one end to the other, and we're going to be moving along that spectrum.

Let me ask you, for the rank and file citizen, and we're hearing more and more from them. They see these jobs. It sounds like these jobs, and frankly the leadership jobs are for very highly educated skilled people. The rank and file citizen is looking at the public dollars involved and is asking, what's in this for me?

Hewett: I think that there's a huge amount in it for the rank and file. There will, of course, be some jobs at levels that many people would be able to undertake. There are a lot of high-level jobs too, as you said.

I think the aspirational opportunity for the county's children, the region's children, is one of the most significant.

We're going to create an opportunity here that's different from serving tourists; that's different from building homes; that's different from picking crops in the field. It's a cutting edge, forward-looking, 21st century opportunity. And I think for children to see that this is possible ...

We have a wonderful woman who grew up on an island in Maine, who made her life, became a world-famous genetics researcher only because the Jackson Laboratory was in Bar Harbor. I'd love to see that happen with kids here in Collier County.

* * *

Lytle: Let me ask you to respond to a letter to the editor. This is a real letter from a real reader. His name is Clark Reid, and if this hasn't been published yet, it will be. It's not a secret.

He says: "If you are a big business that wants to relocate here or a large developer that wants to turn farmland into houses, then we will give you x amount of money for every y amount of development. And if we become friends, we will even dedicate any new tax money generated in your area back to you." He's talking about Collier County.

He goes on to say: "I thought locally elected officials represented the people who elected them, not a company from Maine or a developer from Michigan ..." — a reference to Tom Monaghan at Ave Maria.

How do you respond to people like that?

Hewett: I think there are several ways to do it. First and most important, let's remember we're a non-for-profit organization dedicated to improving human health, the health of our children, the health of our grandchildren. We're not a for-profit company. No one takes money out of this. Every penny that comes in goes into discovery and making life better for people in the future. So that's important.

I think secondly, and I said this at an event last night. You know, this is really up to the county. We were invited to come here. We were invited to make a proposal. We don't pretend to be your decision-makers. We can't represent your people. That's up to the folks that you elect.

If you decide you want us, you make that decision. We've been very up-front about what it will take from day one. And then, with regard to how you fund that, that's up to you. If you invited me to dinner, I wouldn't ask you, did you buy the groceries with cash or with a credit card, or a debit card. I'd be grateful and enjoy your hospitality.

We have to do that here. We can't dictate how the county puts together its share of what it's going to take to make this happen.

* * *

Lytle: You're getting some political push-back, or at least some political discussion back in Maine about what you're up to. Come people are upset that you're considering any kind of progress or expansion outside your home base.

Hewett: We are getting a lot of push-back. Like you do here, we have a gubernatorial campaign in full swing. The candidates have made us into a bit of a football. It's wonderful that they wish we were going to do this in Maine. The opportunity for the collaborations to be part of what's happening across Florida in terms of investment in biomedical research and discovery. And frankly the financial resources just don't exist in the state the size of Maine.

Maine has been great to us, and we will continue to be there. We will continue to grow there. This is different. It's complimentary, and I think at the end of the day, we'll be good for what we do in Maine too.

* * *

Lytle: Under the financing concept that the commissioners approved the innovation district's idea where in effect that the taxes from the increased values that hopefully will come from progress get put back into the same sort of purposes.

If you come, will there be any money left over for anybody else who wants to come after you?

Hewett: I don't know the answer to that question, Jeff. I haven't begun to look at that or even think about it.

* * *

Lytle: Is that something to think about, or is that for others to have on their ... ?

Hewett: I think that's a question for the county leadership. They're the ones who understand their finances. We know what it takes to run a research laboratory and put one together from scratch. It's a big undertaking.

* * *

Lytle: Can you walk us through the prospectus for job creation here? You will bring some, but do you look for in the forecast? We hear all kinds of numbers.

Hewett: Thank you so much for that question.

The lab will create over the course of five years just under 200 jobs, and we anticipate over the course of the half decade following that there would be as many as another hundred. Between 200 and 300 over the 10-year period.

It would not make any sense of us at all to come to an area like Collier County where there's no research infrastructure, no research hospital, no medical school, unless we could envision a future where those would start to come together.

We do envision that. I fact, I've had discussions as recently as this morning over breakfast with a party who is very interested in creating a hospital next to us. It would be a specialty hospital at first, perhaps a general hospital over time. We're having conversations with a party that would like to have a science and math high school at the site. We very much will need to attract a good medical school with a research and clinical focus.

And I think it's fair to say that the land owner under the right terms would be willing to donate land to all of those not-for-profit entities. That would be the nucleus of a community that would then start to grow.

There would be space for a biotech park that would be for-profit companies. It would want to be close to the hospital, close to the medical school, close to our cutting edge breakthrough research. There would be a retail village that would support those entities.

And if you think about being out in the eastern part of the county, folks are going to want the convenience of being able to get coffee and groceries and things like that close by.

And then, there would be a residential community so that people working in those areas could choose, if they wished, to live very close there.

The Washington Economic Group, which has done all of the analysis for Scripps, Burnham and Torrey Pines and others predicts that the growth of that community would lead to about 7,500 jobs over the first decade, and then something in the neighborhood of 9,000 or 10,000 jobs over 20 years.

* * *

Lytle: So Jackson Laboratory wouldn't be developing the hospital.

Hewett: No.

* * *

Lytle: Can you identify any of the parties for us? I think our viewers would really appreciate as many details as you could provide.

Hewett: I think what I'd like to say at this point is that we've had discussions with several local institutions, and at least a couple of Northeast regional institutions, and there's interest. No one's at a point where I'm really free to discuss names or whoever.

At this point in time we're having conceptual discussions, but I think at least a couple of the local parties could turn into very real discussions very quickly.

Lytle: Would the high school be a public high school or a charter — no, well, charter schools are public schools.

Would it be a private school?

Hewett: I see it a charter school.

Lytle: A charter public school.

Would Jackson partner in the profits from that? It sounds like there would be a nice cash flow.

Hewett: From the school? No.

Lytle: From the whole big picture you just sketched.

Hewett: No, no, no. We're very content with what we do in terms of our research, the services that we provide to farmer, biotech, other academic labs, our own educational programs which focus on training Ph.D.s and post doctorates and the research that we do, reaching out to career professionals and helping them keep their skills and knowledge current. That's what we do.

And by the way, most of that costs us money. It doesn't make us money.

Lytle: It's just part of the package.

Hewett: It's part of what you have to do.

Lytle: What would you say to an entrepreneur, here or elsewhere, who might say, "you know, I think what these guys propose to do is great. But I did the same thing on my own time. And I put everything up. And I sort of pulled myself up by the boot straps, so to speak. So why should these guys come along and get public money assisting them?"

Hewett: Look, I've worked in the for-profit sector and the non-for-profit sector and government, and I can tell you I have started from scratch companies in Ireland, New York, New Jersey; turned around a company in Maine on my own dime. And you get the rewards for doing that. You take the complete risks for doing that.

Not-for-profit sector, it is an absolute struggle to fund research. World-class, cutting-edge research doesn't happen without a combination of public and private support and a lot of hard work on the part of the scientists to write grants, get grants, conduct their program.