Originally Posted by valkolton
I think the definition of audiophile is changing as there is "classic audiophile" and "modern music" audiophiles. I'm an audiophile, I have a $500k home stereo system - but I love bass. Modern music requires it and the artists that make it WANT you to have the bass (pop, rock and especially hip-hop and dance). Relatively flat curves for mid-high, yet low bass extension that you can feel IS what many producers want you to hear and therefore to me is the NEW-AGE audiophile.

I mean no offense, and these are definitely beautifully crafted phones, which I'm sure will appeal to a large number of people, but I think it's incredibly presumptuous to assume that all modern, hip, up-to-date audiophiles want massive bass, routinely listen to highly compressed, beat-dominant music, and that, in point of fact, such music is the definition of modern. I, for one, can assure you that the modern Jazz scene is about as vibrant as any musical scene has ever been. Taylor Eigsti, Brad Mehldau, Joshua Redman, Maria Schneider, just to list the first few names that pop into my head, are all producing ingenuitive, beautiful, subtle, detailed, complex music that most certainly demands a reasonably neutral presentation to be properly appreciated. I can go to any of a dozen Jazz clubs in New York on any given week and be guaranteed that there are going to be more mind-blowingly talented musicians performing than I have the time or money to appreciate. The production on some of these albums (Highway Rider, Compass, Daylight at Midnight are the first that come to mind), and the ethos behind the studios producing them (Nonesuch, Concord, etc) is, undoubtedly of the "classic audiophile" camp that you seem to be relegating to the realm of the archaic. These artists, studios and producers do not WANT the bass on their recordings to be artificially amplified to the extent that dance and hip-hop artists may well. To be perfectly honest, I'm not even sure how one can approach the concept of audiophilia in material that's as repetitive, simplistic and has been as heavily compressed on the production side as most modern hip-hop, pop and dance music has been. I consider myself an audiophile because I prize, treasure and cherish the small, subtle nuances in my music that become ever more apparent on better and better systems. The minute genius of Eric Harland's touch on a cymbal, or Christian McBride's tone on the high registers of an upright bass. I'm not sure such things even exist in the genres of music you are heralding as "modern." To be sure, there is a place for dance and pop music, the same way there is a place for fast food and soap operas. Not all music need be cerebral to be enjoyable. I go to DEMF (excuse me...Movement...) every year and I rock out just as hard as the next guy to Benny Benassi or Fedde Le Grand. But never would I think of any part of that experience as having anything to do with audiophilia. The music is way too loud, the bass is way too fat, the systems are all ultra-high wattage class D distortion boxes, and that's just the way it's supposed to be. I have to use 28 db pad earplugs to not have ringing in my ears by the end of it, and that alone is bound to destroy the fidelity of a system. There is surely genius to be found in electronic and hip-hop music. But every time I see someone using a Lady Gaga track to judge the fidelity of a piece of gear they're testing I want to cry. Maybe I'm just an old-fashioned stick in the mud at all of 23, but as my engineering mentor, Tom Munsell, once put it best, "you can't polish a turd." Insofar as that, if you can't reveal detail or subtlety that isn't there in Ke$ha and Beyonce, maybe the best thing you can do is just to crank up everything... As for me, I'll stick with my classic-audiophile concepts for my modern music.

95% of all headphones die from the cable and most of those die where the cable meets the strain relief.

-val kolton

ceo/dj v-moda

That's news to me.

For me it's once bitten twice shy. O.K. i had to replace my HD25-1 cable, but that was after 7 years of use, with 5 of those seven years having the HD's as 1 of 3 pairs of headphones i had at the time. When i bought the V-Moda vibes i had over 20 pairs, and they still only lasted 2 weeks. And when i googled it, i could see that i wasn't the only one. Not good! You might have fiat in the new kevlar cables ... i don't!

it's not about 'warranty' and 'money back', it's about building headphones that don't break in the first place. And now i have over 40 pairs of headphones, i can report that well over 95% of them have survived well. And this from the man who found his Stax headphone system under a pile of clean washing (see the ex-wife about that), Personally having to fork out my hard earned money to send headphones back to the manufacturer, waiting for an investigation and all that doesn't really apeal to me. But over 95% of the headphones i bought i 've never had to do that, because they been built properly in the first place.

That's why i made a review saying that they are good for DJing since they are very loud, but no good for studio listening since the bass are too heavy.

Like the guy said, when someone produce a song, he produce it the way he want it to be heard.... When i produce house music, i make my kickdrums to my taste and how i want it to be heard and not by thinking that someone will boost the bass...

Unfortunately after a month I noticed the the inner plastic band where the metal adjustment bar that connects the phones to the padding the goes over your head had completely cracked on both sides of the headphones.

yes off course sound is unbalanced in the beginning, but I have never seen a headphones transforming so much on a good burn out. like someone told me to keep these headphones playing for 100s of hrs straight and I am currently doing it (into 50th hr may be) and boy do they open up, the mids starts coming out, the sound starts getting more colorful. The projection / soundstage was amazing even in begnning, through bass was overpower everything and making things apparently muddy, but i could see that the drivers are, independent of their dominant bass, trying to express the sound stage almost as good as an extreme comparision to my PX-100 of a open back sound stage and projection. i could feel its only their closed back ness and overwhelming bass thats eating up all the spectrum.

only once you burn them out good do you see that expression coming out and challenging its lows.

instruments on left or right were on good left or right, strings that are to be "airy" were as adequately "airy" as i can expect on a 100$ buy (yes i got on sale!! yippie!!)

Yes "airy", and i dont know what is the term for expressing that instruments sound seem to be coming from heaven, like from everywhere rather then linear projection in ear. musicians sitting back on stage were really coming from back. as you burn them out, bass still remains strong but starts getting seperated from low mids and mid. it doesnt over power the soundscape as much, infact the bass bleeding muddiness is reduced to impressive levels. then you start getting brighter music. low frequency is, off course, never a problem right from the beginning you open the box and hook them bad boys in to you player. I have never seen a pair of headphones rattle your head, you can feel your brains leaking out of your nose on every thump. the movement of drivers and vibration of air due to it can be so boldy felt in your ears, its like, crazy man! 80s dance rock / EDM / glam rock is a heaven on these. i dont think you can get a pair for this price that will transform your dance / pop rock /eletronic world.

For other genres, after this burnout, now even expressiveness is coming along. interestingly, more you burn them i have observed, they seem to be leaking relatively more, a open back phenomenon, as they are even starting to almost sound like a open back with colors and brightness. its strange, they are supposed to be in a stone cold closed back league and they break that rule.

super tight snares in those british metal bands and progressive rock / metal, is astonishingly expressed nicely, though i know nothing comes close to Grado and the league for those mean tight snares. its ok, my Px-100 were also ever so tight and mean on those snares. my sound references has got used to very slight valley curve i guess. though it would great to get tighter snares and mids in general.

These still get muddy when they are super overwhelmed with mids, like one of those six peice metal bands with 3 overdriven guitars, strings and gothic opera thing going on, thats still too much for these to handle and at some peak points of mids, they almost do a band pass filter like act (those who spend time in composing and recording studio will know of compression and band passing / filtering), it handles everything well and suddenly at the overwhelming mid point, it does a v notch act and goes back to opening mids up after that fraction of second.

I am not sure that kind of extreme mids would be expressed, or even handled by these ever. hoping they do after the alleged 600+ hrs burn out. crossing my fingures but putting no stock, its unfair to expect so much from a closed back headphones that does such a good job in bass. But most other non eletronic acoustic genres like glam rock, straight rock. alternative / punk, they can handle a 4 piece or 3 piece band still very well after this burn out. ok i wont go as far as saying jack johnson or jason mraz or guitar trio would be expressed 100% in these, always remember these are closed back, basic physics / sound engineering principals dictates that they shouldnt.

Jazz guys, those extreme low airy bass of organs and cello, which i never saw, before these, any headphones even pick those frequencies, these bad boys can! but i think it it would be colors in mids and feelings in vocals that would slightly still turn down jazz guys.

Bottomline, folks who own these and have huge listening spectrum like me (from dance rock to trash metal), would want constantly burn these in spare time (like overnight) against high mids and guitars and acoustic instrument for 100s of hours and see them shine.

Dance music / electronic / hip hop / house guys, enjoy them after unboxing! ("unboxing"!!!, never really got the hype associated with it)

have fun! great headphones, great buy when on amazon sale (i got for 100$, definitely worth more than 100 and i feel lucky, though 250 i am not sure)