I could see the point if we were talking about a $50 XBox game, but we're talking about a $.99 or $1.99 or so app. Puh leez. How much do you spend on your phone to begin with? It's not Microsoft you need to negotiate with. It is the developers who are selling the apps.

Hopmedic, it is probably your attitude on why you made only $20, you think you are entitled to a ton of profits, you should probably take a marketing class, you would think if more people downloaded your apps the more profits you could make. I am very surprised you are so against this, you only made $20 last month. I would call that a hobby and not a job.

Back to my original post, they need to change this to make it so that there is some sort of way to keep it at the 5 device limit within the same family.
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It IS a hobby, you nit-wit. But it is still MY time, and I deserve to be compensated for it. I am the one who decides what to charge for my apps, not Microsoft, so you are buying from ME, not Microsoft, when you make that purchase in the store. Microsoft is just a selling agent. So when you decide to "share" accounts (steal), it is ME that you are stealing from.

How much I make is irrelevant. In my case, I give my apps away, and use ads to generate revenue. But that is irrelevant, because it is MY choice to do it that way, not yours. Only the developer can legally choose to allow his work to be free of charge. The rest of you who are doing it are doing it in direct violation of the law, and whether you WERE in full knowledge of it or not, you are now. And whether you knew it or not has no relevance, either - ask any of the people who've been found guilty of stealing from the music publishers and have had to pay huge fines. You're no better than the common thug kid in grade school who beat up the little kid and stole his lunch money. You just hide behind a computer to do it. I guess that makes you more of a coward.

As far as five devices in the same family, Microsoft doesn't have the right to give a family rights that only I as the creator of the work can give. Only the creator of the work can assign those rights, unless he enters into an agreement which gives those rights to another entity. I didn't enter into such an agreement. Microsoft can't take my one purchase and give five copies to five different people.

Microsoft can make the change in when you submit an app to the windows marketplace, you have to go by certain rules. I think they should and if you can't figure out that this is my opinion then you are the "nit-wit".

This is the reason why my wife won't be buying into windows phone. As I said, it would be cheaper for me to go IOS, I really don't want to do this. I like windows phone. I hope some developers put some traction to this. A simple business concept would be the more customers you have the more potential you can make. Either thru in-app purchases (if this is even available thru windows phone) or via ads. Usually what is better for the consumer is better for the company when their is a win-win solution.

I am sorry that you can't make money off your apps, so what apps have you released? Are they ant good?
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Siding with hopmedic on this one, and I'm not a developer. rdubmu, that mentality is part of why your xbox games retail for $60, why some of these aps cost $2-5 when the devolopers like hopmedic would prefer to charge $0.99. Are there really that many paid apps that you use? The majority of my paid apps are games.

Arguing with an ***** is like playing chess with a pigeon.
You could be the greatest player in the world, but the pigeon will still knock over all the pieces, s--t on the board and strut around triumphantly-Tomtom6 on NcSportbikes.com

Etyrnya, I am not really talking about the $1-$5 games and apps, mostly apps like navagon which at times cost $50, I honestly can't buy that more than once. Yes I bought it on wp7, and I don't use it because of Nokia drive now, but what about other expensive apps.
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I bothered to type your screen name correctly, at least have that much courtesy. And I have both Navigon and Nokia Drive on my phone. You couldn't share one physical GPS between two cars at the same time, and any decent one costs more than that app.

Arguing with an ***** is like playing chess with a pigeon.
You could be the greatest player in the world, but the pigeon will still knock over all the pieces, s--t on the board and strut around triumphantly-Tomtom6 on NcSportbikes.com

This also brings into question, who is the owner of a device? The person who bought it? The person who uses it most? The person who pays the bills. I think that's a large part of the disagreement. To me, I bought it, I maintain it, my wife uses it.

I do get your point. This is not iOS. Microsoft/WP8 treats each account as individual. Yes you may have multiple devices, but the expectation is that they are your devices, not a shared device. That is why my example of the GPS stands in counter to your comment about Navigon. They are separate devices, separate people. If I wanted Navigon on my second line's device, I would have to purchase it, plain and simple, just like if I had a spouse who had their own vehicle and wanted a physical GPS, I would have to purchase two as well.

Last edited by Etyrnus; 12-01-2012 at 04:08 PM.

Arguing with an ***** is like playing chess with a pigeon.
You could be the greatest player in the world, but the pigeon will still knock over all the pieces, s--t on the board and strut around triumphantly-Tomtom6 on NcSportbikes.com

And once again, according to Microsoft's terms of use, you are not permitted to allow a third party to access your account. The apps are sold through a Microsoft account, and the owner of that Microsoft account is the person who owns the rights to use that app (only the developer owns the app). The owner of the rights can put that app on more than one device that he uses with his account, but again, since you cannot allow someone else to use your account, you are violating the terms of use if you allow someone else to use your accout, and you are stealing.

Why is it that people have to fight so hard to justify their illegal activities? You've been shown the rules, both legal and in the terms of use, yet you still sit there hiding behind your keyboards trying to justify your crimes........... smh

Hopmedic, please show any case law where somebody has been prosecuted for what I describe with apps. Also, I haven't committed any crimes. My wife and I own both our devices equally. We both own everything equaly. I think you forgot about this part. We both work, and we bought our devices using our shared bank account, we also bought the apps with the same account. With a GPS device on Windows phone, I can install navagon onto 5 different devices using my live account so etyrnus. So buying a separate GPS unit has nothing to do with this, as it is the same as any other app.

You're not grasping the very simple concept I'm laying out for you. The physical GPS example shows this. Let me try this approach. When you purchase an app, that is the equivalent to purchasing a product. Forget the software/physical object difference, it is still a product. Even better example. Dinner at a restaurant. Does your one purchase of one entree entitle your wife to a matching full entree at no charge? No. You can bypass that by sharing, yes, but then you come across the limitation you may both still be hungry. To get the full meal you must purchase two.

Arguing with an ***** is like playing chess with a pigeon.
You could be the greatest player in the world, but the pigeon will still knock over all the pieces, s--t on the board and strut around triumphantly-Tomtom6 on NcSportbikes.com

In the end the terms of use between iOS and WP8 are very similar, you have to use the same login in iOS to download apps on multiple devices the same as WP8 requires you to. You are also supposed to own and have control of the device according to the general iOS app EULA. Apple makes it somewhat easier since they have a setting on the phone specifically for the app store. And now with iOS 6 you no longer have to enter a password for app updates. But in apple-land it's a widely accepted practice to share apps between "family" devices whether it's truly legal or not.

Media sharing is entirely different. You are allowed to share iTunes media with different devices, people, accounts, etc. up to a certain limit. I haven't even looked at how it works on WP8.

Windows Phone lets you put any purchased app onto 5 devices with the same LIVE ID. All I am asking is that they expand this to some sort of family plan or something where you can separate windows phone marketplace and the other services. It would still be 5 devices, the funny part is that if you reach your 5 device limit, Microsoft will reset it currently, to only current devices. (see my sig) Well, I think we have all beaten the dead horse. We are know our stance. I am not here to debate about GPS units and what's the deal for dinner, I just want the same feature set as IOS. Maybe someday windows phone will have this, maybe not.
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Hopmedic, please show any case law where somebody has been prosecuted for what I describe with apps. Also, I haven't committed any crimes. My wife and I own both our devices equally. We both own everything equaly. I think you forgot about this part. We both work, and we bought our devices using our shared bank account, we also bought the apps with the same account. With a GPS device on Windows phone, I can install navagon onto 5 different devices using my live account so etyrnus. So buying a separate GPS unit has nothing to do with this, as it is the same as any other app.

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I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not up on looking up case law, and even if I was, whether someone has been prosecuted is not the point. What you are talking about is illegal whether you accept it or not. It doesn't matter if you own everything equally or not, there is no such thing as co-ownership of a Microsoft account. The terms of service, the key point which I've already posted, shows you that and you are too oblivious to facts to see them in front of your face. You are blinded by greed, and will continue to justify your crime until someone knocks on the door with a pair of co-joined bracelets and a matching pair for your wife as well. Won't that be a swell match made in heaven. Because you didn't want to spend a few extra bucks. As far as ownership of "purchased" intellectual property, I'd suggest a search of cases where people have died and heirs have tried to get into Amazon accounts to get Kindle content..... There's a can of worms..... Not much difference here...

Originally Posted by rdubmu

Windows Phone lets you put any purchased app onto 5 devices with the same LIVE ID. All I am asking is that they expand this to some sort of family plan or something where you can separate windows phone marketplace and the other services. It would still be 5 devices, the funny part is that if you reach your 5 device limit, Microsoft will reset it currently, to only current devices. (see my sig) Well, I think we have all beaten the dead horse. We are know our stance. I am not here to debate about GPS units and what's the deal for dinner, I just want the same feature set as IOS. Maybe someday windows phone will have this, maybe not.
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And as already pointed out, it is a violation of Microsoft's terms of service to allow someone else to use your live ID. To allow someone else to use your ID to use content that you purchased is essentially being an accessory to them stealing the intellectual property. Happy anniversary. Hope you enjoy your intimate stay in the gray bar resort. Meet Bubba.

Do I exaggerate? Yes. But is what I've stated possible? Yes, absolutely it is. It is completely within the realm of possibility. So what if they allow IP theft on iOS? Didn't your parents ever tell you no, and you said, "But Billy's doing it," and they said, "But we're not Billy's parents," ? Well, Microsoft isn't Apple, and if Apple wants to allow IP theft that doesn't mean Microsoft will. If MS were to implement a policy such as you have suggested, I suspect there would be a revolt among developers, and if you think the shortfall of apps is something now, just wait. I know I'd pull all of my apps from the store in a minute, and there wouldn't be another one there.

Microsoft isn't going to dictate to me what my selling price is, or that one sale is going to be for a whole family's phones.