I haven't seen this discussed here yet because obviously the play worked. But I was thinking, most of us would have been absolutely livid with that play call had it failed. It was 4th down, we only needed 3 yards for a first and I believe we were on the 10 yard line. He calls one of the lowest percentage pass plays you can call in the end zone?

Again, we all know that it worked out, but this place would have been steaming about that call had Braylon not caught it.

I'm not sure this wasn't a snap decision by Wilson when he saw Braylon had one-on-one coverage on the outside against a much shorter and inferior CB. He put the ball up there and trusted Edwards to come down with it. I agree that a more conservative play might have been the smarter option on 4th down, but the NE front 7 had been doing well limiting most of our shorter yardage plays on the day. RW took a shot and it paid off. I admire his guts.

I was pretty pissed as well... That was the first time I recall it working this year... I am probably wrong.... but, it was pretty cool it worked! I am a total bevell hater though so thats why I disliked it...lol but my hope is that things will improve when russell gets more comfortable and can just take over. I kind of wonder if they are allowing him to do that yet? anybody who watches the film see him making adjustments? I havent really noticed that much...

There was another play on the drive before the last where we turned it over on downs on a failed 3rd and 3 pass down the sideline that wasn't even close in any fashion. We were lucky to get the ball back with so little time left at the time. I vaguely remember it now, so I don't remember the specifics but I wish they'd run some higher % stuff in those situations. I mean get the first down, then take some shots.

At the time I figured what did you have to lose? They weren't running on the Pats and they gambled that the edges would be open more than something quick across the middle.

Yep, the coaches and players would be catching hell right now if that play had not worked. It's a fine high-wire balancing act. That play never worked Pete's first year with Bates. Same with the punt. Thank the defense for holding up late.

I had prepared myself for defeat. There is no way my team hits a 47 yd bomb with 1:14 to go against one of the highly regarded teams. Never happens. Except this time it did. This season is a mystery to me.

Here's the problem with complaining about this play....Edwards was only one player on the field. We don't know who the primary receiver was and what the original intent of the play was. Could the first read have been well covered? Did Wilson see something with Edwards coverage that made him decide to put it there? Was that the original plan all along? We don't know the answers to these, we can just be happy that it worked, because if it doesn't, we'd be arguing about who's fault it was...Pete, Darrel or Russel.

“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

kidhawk wrote:Here's the problem with complaining about this play....Edwards was only one player on the field. We don't know who the primary receiver was and what the original intent of the play was. Could the first read have been well covered? Did Wilson see something with Edwards coverage that made him decide to put it there? Was that the original plan all along? We don't know the answers to these, we can just be happy that it worked, because if it doesn't, we'd be arguing about who's fault it was...Pete, Darrel or Russel.

The primary reciever was Braylon. Watch how quickly the ball is thrown after the snap. He didn't have time to make any other reads. I suppose he could have called that at the line, but you're right. We don't know.

I saw nothing wrong with that play, whether it was called like that or not.... I don't see why more teams don't do that..the CB was clearly playing the fade, everyone on NE's bench thought fade, but Russ throws it short so only the guy with his head turned and looking at the ball could get it.

Plus, if he drops it, it's a PI on the defense...what are we complaining about again?

I agree that it was probably not the brightest call to make on 4th and 3 (why don't we ever run in these situations?). If NE's defensive back hadn't totally blown the coverage on Braylon, we'd have turned it over on downs.

Feel free to contact me if you need legal assistance. I have a great lawyer that helped me with an ex who violated my privacy and kept harassing me on MySpace and Facebook. He's very good. And there is legal precedent. - linuxpro

I always hate that call because it works about 10% of the time, but I also think that Wilson was supposed to look at the route underneath that was open IIRC. It definitely wasn't a single option play and Wilson needs to thank Edwards for bailing him out, imo. What worries me is that this is the type of play we seem to always go to in that situation - our OC needs to have something better than that put together, imo.

The problem at times with high percentage plays is that those are the ones the D expects. If you are going to hang touchdowns on the board and not field goals you gotta roll the dice, especially against a good team.

I thought it was genius, I thought the underthrow was on purpose and Edwards did what he does the best, make the spectacular catch (cause he drops the easy ones now and again).

Personally, I thought it was correct for the situation. There's something about going for the TD on 4th and short that seems to work pretty well - maybe because the Patriots front 7 were geared up to stuff the run and they got caught off guard?

The Radish wrote:Someone is pissing and moaning about a play that scored a TD?

After many posters complained with our play calling being to conservative?

There are about 25 things I could complain about in that game. But I would rather just take the 3 1/2 days we have to celebrate winning.

I wouldn't call this pissing and moaning, and he's 100% right. It's a very low percentage play and this place would have erupted into rage and fury had it not worked. Everyone is glad it did work out of course

SmokinHawk wrote:I agree that it was probably not the brightest call to make on 4th and 3 (why don't we ever run in these situations?). If NE's defensive back hadn't totally blown the coverage on Braylon, we'd have turned it over on downs.

Did he blow the coverage? My recollection was that it was great coverage but Russell threw it in a place where Braylon had to make an incredible adjustment and manuever to get to it. Not sure I would consider that blown coverage, the guy was with Edwards step by step, it was just an incredible adjustment on Edwards part to make that catch.

Looking at the All-22 pictures provided by the good doctordiags, I have to say, there's a lot of space on that field, as though the Patriots knew they had to be ready for anything. That's some nice work by the offense to keep the defense on their toes, and if so, it goes a long way to making this a higher percentage playcall.

bellingerga wrote:Did he blow the coverage? My recollection was that it was great coverage but Russell threw it in a place where Braylon had to make an incredible adjustment and manuever to get to it. Not sure I would consider that blown coverage, the guy was with Edwards step by step, it was just an incredible adjustment on Edwards part to make that catch.

OR...in the huddle, Bevell tells Russ that they're overplaying the fade. Tell Braylon to sell the fade and as the ball is thrown, to come back to it. (Of course he said it in code: I-E Zebra 2, Cover Banana, 3 Bangers and Mash on 2)

I hate fade routs. They are such low percentage. They also ran that awful fade to the sideline on 3rd and 2 on the 2nd to last possession, and RW3 threw it out of bounds. I am obviously thrilled that the TD worked out, but if that pass had not been caught, I would be leading the angry mob.

I hated it. I hate it now. It was a horrible play call, period. Yes, I know we scored, but it is possible to have a good outcome from a really shitty call, just like it's possible to have a really bad outcome from a great call.

As others have said, I hate that call because it has such a low percentage of success. The upside to a fade is that it has a low percentage of interception but that shouldn't really matter on 4th down.

I don't know. I hate the fade all the time, I REALLY hate it on 4th down. And to say that we don't know who the primary's are, etc is silly because Wilson didn't bother with one read on that play. Edwards was the only read.

not a bevell fan at all... to fricken predictable, and i was not happy with that 2 minute offense at the end of the game, why were we huddling????? do we have a two minute offense? just weird to me... against the niners - run, run pass on 3rd and long, get use to seeing that.... it's the scary niners better put the handcuffs back on

It was great to get the catch (and the PI). On one of the talk shows, they were talking about Tate would have been a higher percentage target, but he was not quite open at the moment the ball was thrown.

To be sure in the future, let's have sidney split the defenders from now on.

Side note...Was braylon inbounds? I watched the replay on the jumbotron and then a dozen times when I got home. Didn't seem like 2 feet inbounds, but maybe his knee and elbow was inbounds? Oh well, whatever, ruled TD.

The Radish wrote:You're right. I shouldn't have said pissing and moaning. But since you now are still talking about it wouldn't that be whining?

Again I refuse to entertain any bad news when we only have until thursday to enjoy beating the freaking Patriots!!!

GIAFB Radish. You of all people, with your 11000+ posts should know better by now. If you don't like the OP...move along. Save your $.02, maybe let it accrue some interest for another topic. No need to belittle. Live and let live.

To the OP. I hate hate hate that play myself, especially on 4th down. When i saw what was going down i let out a very loud "F-bomb, this play never works....Yay! It worked!"

But, even had it not worked we still would have had a first down due to the DPI, so we had that going for us.

hawker84 wrote:not a bevell fan at all... to fricken predictable, and i was not happy with that 2 minute offense at the end of the game, why were we huddling????? do we have a two minute offense? just weird to me... against the niners - run, run pass on 3rd and long, get use to seeing that.... it's the scary niners better put the handcuffs back on

I hate Bevell as much as the next, BUT, the huddle was part of the play design for the Sydney bomb, IMO. It added to getting the Pats to bite on the same formation, motion being used.

OMG, this so supports my belief that there's a whole pile of peeps on here who just love to bitch.

Run it on 4th and short? Sure, why not? Marshawn was running them into the ground all day. Wait a tick... no he wasn't. They slammed the door in his face damn near every time he touched the rock (as is evident in his season low 40 yards rushing). And you think they were just going to ignore Marshawn in that situation!? Rly?! Uh, no. no doubt they were all keyed up to defend the run on that play, but instead a good QB threw a great ball to an above average reciever who ran an AWESOME route and the result was a touchdown. Good call, good strategy, good execution. How are you actually going to complain about that?!

They talked about this Monday on Brock and salk with coach Carroll, and said its a 50% chance of completing IIRC. Coach said it was not a designed play for Edwards but 1st option was Tate, but changed call at los. I think I'm remembering most of it right, bc I thought the 50% thing was high. And it might not have been Tate. Check out the podcast if you're really interested about the playcall, it was defiinitely discussed.

CANHawk wrote:OMG, this so supports my belief that there's a whole pile of peeps on here who just love to bitch.

Run it on 4th and short? Sure, why not? Marshawn was running them into the ground all day. Wait a tick... no he wasn't. They slammed the door in his face damn near every time he touched the rock (as is evident in his season low 40 yards rushing). And you think they were just going to ignore Marshawn in that situation!? Rly?! Uh, no. no doubt they were all keyed up to defend the run on that play, but instead a good QB threw a great ball to an above average reciever who ran an AWESOME route and the result was a touchdown. Good call, good strategy, good execution. How are you actually going to complain about that?!

to quote Charlie Brown; Good Greif...

I think Vince Wilfork ate an elephant last week and grew another hundred pounds. That dude is massive. I wanted him so bad when he came out, I think we ended with Marcus Tubbs or something.

Anyway, the way they threw that ball, if they knew how the D was playing it and the D played as expected, it was an easy interference call. The defender didn't even try to make an adjustment, and Braylon caught it just to be sure.

At some point, if we are going to the playoffs, the training wheels gotta come off and we gotta believe that our guys are going to make the play. It starts with the guys in the Locker Room first and foremost (and that includes the coaches). They have to know before we do that they can trust other guys to make a play. They showed a lot of trust in Braylon in that situation and it just brings him into the fold a little more.

If Braylon Edwards can get on track and give us something down the stretch it is going to make our receiving corp so much better. He has so much going for him from a physicality standpoint.

CANHawk wrote:OMG, this so supports my belief that there's a whole pile of peeps on here who just love to bitch.

Run it on 4th and short? Sure, why not? Marshawn was running them into the ground all day. Wait a tick... no he wasn't. They slammed the door in his face damn near every time he touched the rock (as is evident in his season low 40 yards rushing). And you think they were just going to ignore Marshawn in that situation!? Rly?! Uh, no. no doubt they were all keyed up to defend the run on that play, but instead a good QB threw a great ball to an above average reciever who ran an AWESOME route and the result was a touchdown. Good call, good strategy, good execution. How are you actually going to complain about that?!

to quote Charlie Brown; Good Greif...

I don't disagree about the amount of bitching that goes on around here but in this case I'm one of the bitches...so...

What exactly made that a good route? Or a good throw? The fact that Wilson didn't throw it out of bounds or get it picked? The fact that Edwards caught it? I'm not trying to be shitty, but I think the fade is judged strictly on success. The throw and catch look different every time it's run. There's hardly a diagram except for "throw it high" .

And my whole argument is that the all-time success rate of the fade is like 10%, so that's why I hate that call. I'm not advocating for a run to Marshawn, but for that to be the call on 4TH DOWN seems completely ridiculous to me.

I think fades are probably actually the best type of play in call in those situations. You more than likely will have a one on one match up and you usually will only do them with your bigger receivers. Plus they have the most potential for drawing a PI flag which actually occured this particular play.

Yeah, some peeps are forgetting, it seems, that the flag WAS thrown on that play. Braylon, to use a basketball term, drew the PI call. Some WRs are good at that. Plus, on that route, if the DB is strictly covering the man and not looking for the ball, the QB underthrows intentionally, and when the WR cuts back for the ball, the PI is nearly automatic. Conversely, if the DB is looking back for the ball, the WR can shake loose for an easy reception.

So, the third possibility, one which actually was in play, was that we would have been 1st and goal at the 1 anyway.

The call was not that bad IMHO.

Talent can get you to the playoffs.It takes character to win when you get there.SUPER BOWL XLVIII CHAMPIONS

The Radish wrote:You're right. I shouldn't have said pissing and moaning. But since you now are still talking about it wouldn't that be whining?

Again I refuse to entertain any bad news when we only have until thursday to enjoy beating the freaking Patriots!!!

GIAFB Radish. You of all people, with your 11000+ posts should know better by now. If you don't like the OP...move along. Save your $.02, maybe let it accrue some interest for another topic. No need to belittle. Live and let live.

To the OP. I hate hate hate that play myself, especially on 4th down. When i saw what was going down i let out a very loud "F-bomb, this play never works....Yay! It worked!"

But, even had it not worked we still would have had a first down due to the DPI, so we had that going for us.

Wait, wait, WAIT!!! Hey 400watt are you trying to tell you I'm not allowed to post my views and you are? The difference is when I'm wrong I admit it. When you and the OP were wrong you refuse to admit it. Not only that you scream at anyone else that doesn't agree with you.

If you read J.D.Robb like I do you will understand when I say "BITE ME". If you don't,,,well you should.

This entire place including yours truly have bitch, pissed, and moaned, about the team and its play calling for 6 games. Jokes on us, we're 4-2. Sadly where calling good/bad plays are concerned we pretty much suck at it even tho we think we could run an NFL team way better than any of the coaching staffs.

Again I say,,,,,the jokes on us!

I just said its a short week, why spoil our 3 days before the next game whining about what COULD have gone wrong?

I'm reminded of last week when they called the fake punt and ran it out of the end zone. I'm not saying you but lots of people screamed how that was a terrible call. I said at the time and still say,,,it was brilliant! Took time off the clock, gained us 20 yards, a free kick, and they still needed a TD to beat us.

So both those plays went against our sensibility? And how dumb does it make us look to do whatever it is you are calling it, to complain now after the fact.

You are great at making the calls AFTER THEY HAVE HAPPENED!

How good would you be if you had to make a call right frickin now, without the beauty of hindsight?

They made both calls, we won both games. Youse guys are really stretching complaining now.

That fade to Braylon hung in the air for awhile and may have been defended by a better corner had it not been thrown early and so far behind Braylon. After seeing it again I think that play was brilliant and well calculated play. I think Edwards and Rice were both running fade routes. Russell read it well and chose to go with Edwards because he was 1 on 1 with the 5'10" rookie Dennard. Wilson knew he had a mismatch and he threw the pass early enough and with enough air that Braylon had time to fend off the rookie corner before coming back for the ball. Remember that Wilson and his Badgers beat up on Nebraska and Denard last year--final score was 48-17. Wilson is quite familiar with Dennard who was a nonfactor in that classic blowout.

CANHawk wrote:OMG, this so supports my belief that there's a whole pile of peeps on here who just love to bitch.

Run it on 4th and short? Sure, why not? Marshawn was running them into the ground all day. Wait a tick... no he wasn't. They slammed the door in his face damn near every time he touched the rock (as is evident in his season low 40 yards rushing). And you think they were just going to ignore Marshawn in that situation!? Rly?! Uh, no. no doubt they were all keyed up to defend the run on that play, but instead a good QB threw a great ball to an above average reciever who ran an AWESOME route and the result was a touchdown. Good call, good strategy, good execution. How are you actually going to complain about that?!

to quote Charlie Brown; Good Greif...

I don't disagree about the amount of bitching that goes on around here but in this case I'm one of the bitches...so...

What exactly made that a good route? Or a good throw? The fact that Wilson didn't throw it out of bounds or get it picked? The fact that Edwards caught it? I'm not trying to be shitty, but I think the fade is judged strictly on success. The throw and catch look different every time it's run. There's hardly a diagram except for "throw it high" .

And my whole argument is that the all-time success rate of the fade is like 10%, so that's why I hate that call. I'm not advocating for a run to Marshawn, but for that to be the call on 4TH DOWN seems completely ridiculous to me.

You basterd, you're going to make me rant on the tablet!? Fine...

It was a good route because Braylon. Put himself into a position to catch the ball, in bounds, in the endzone, with a good two yards of separation AND drawing a PI. If you don't think that's a great route, then your standards are way too high.

It was a great throw because Rusty put the ball where only his man could catch it (in bounds), he put it there softly enough so his man could catch it, but fast enough so the db didn't have any time to adjust (but not so fast that it went through Braylon's famously suspect hands). If you don't think that was a great pass, your standards might be a bit too high.

Everyone keeps moaning about "omg, fade route, I's so skurred", but that's a BIG BOY pass and Rusty dropped that back shoulder fade right where you need to. And he did it like a fricken BOSS! We've been wailing for a qb who can make that throw for YEARS, but now that we seem to have one, we want him to throw nothing but 3 yard ins. Shit, just can't please people these days.....

12thMan1 wrote:I think fades are probably actually the best type of play in call in those situations. You more than likely will have a one on one match up and you usually will only do them with your bigger receivers. Plus they have the most potential for drawing a PI flag which actually occured this particular play.

In this case it was probably the best play to call given the matchup. The tall veteran receiver going 1 on 1 against the smaller rookie corner Dennard whose tendencies Wilson knew quite well from his game against Nebraska last year. Wilson studied quite a bit of tape on Dennard last year and let's just say he was prepared. He knew what he had before the ball was snapped. It was a good timing route and great effort by Edwards. What was genius about it was that Wilson got away with lofting a soft catchable ball because he threw it early and placed it low and outside.

The underrated part of Wilson's game is his vision and how he sees a throw before his receivers break free. That vision and trust in your receivers is what will make him more like Rodgers and Brees than a Mike Vick.

And of course Wilson gained a lot of confidence in Braylon Edwards during the preseason, with Edwards making big plays for him on 50-50 balls that Wilson threw up and Edwards went after and won. A guy makes plays like that for you, and as a QB, you are going to make sure to go to him when you need someone to flat out make a play, and that's what Wilson did. Who says preseason is meaningless.

I haven't read the whole thread, so I don't know if anyone pointed this out ... but when I re-watched this catch, I noticed we're lucky Braylon caught the ball. Right before it hits his body, he seems to look down and close his eyes. No idea why. But we're lucky he caught it.

EDIT: He may have been looking down for the sideline, but still ... he wasn't looking at the ball when he caught it.

This may have already been posted but I'm not going to read 3 pages to find out...

Stop with the Bevell hate.

RW decided to go with the risky throw here, and it's probably cause he saw Braylon 1 on 1 and it worked in the preseason so he went for it. But the bottom line is the call here is for Braylon to draw the left side of the field away so when Tate cuts over he is wide for the first down. This is blatantly obvious. It was a great play call and it is a very high percentage play to Tate. But RW went with the fade.

It looks like a well designed play and the execution couldn't have been done better. I think the coaches deserve some credit for having the balls to do it. I think the aggressive play calling is what the offense needed.

Seattle is going into the games dictating their attitude and making great adjustments, I see them doing the same thing in San fran.

Wow! the same people who say it's the process, not the results are the ones saying quit bitching, it was a touchdown. But just because the play worked doesn't mean it wasn't a stupid call. I can see that 4th and 3 is probably too far to give it to Marshawn. That's low percentage too. But a fade? Ugh, when is Bevell gonna call some high percentage plays on 3rd or 4th and short?

Richard Sherman doesn't just wanna get in your head, he wants to build a vacation home there.

CANHawk wrote:OMG, this so supports my belief that there's a whole pile of peeps on here who just love to bitch.

Run it on 4th and short? Sure, why not? Marshawn was running them into the ground all day. Wait a tick... no he wasn't. They slammed the door in his face damn near every time he touched the rock (as is evident in his season low 40 yards rushing). And you think they were just going to ignore Marshawn in that situation!? Rly?! Uh, no. no doubt they were all keyed up to defend the run on that play, but instead a good QB threw a great ball to an above average reciever who ran an AWESOME route and the result was a touchdown. Good call, good strategy, good execution. How are you actually going to complain about that?!

to quote Charlie Brown; Good Greif...

So basically you didn't actually read any of the posts of those that don't care for that play call.

The point that it was a low % play is true but it was a pick the open guy route and the team likes using Edwards size.

For me the reality was the team needed to score and then score again so the risky play was an option that was realistic in the situation.

In the end your point is taken but the play worked and thus is moot.

Until we develop a pass rush that will cause opposing teams to be forced to scheme to defend it we will never be able to consistently take the final step. The interior rush needs improvement. The OLine clearly still needs work.