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Re: Smoking & playing sax

there was a documentary about the cost of smoking to society last week here. It turned out smokers actually contributed greatly to the overall budget. Not because of the high taxes on each pack of cigs but because they die a lot younger and therefore do not burden the old age pension systems and all the things that go with old age ( bad hips, eyesight, you name it) that cost society money.
So killing yourself with smoke turns out to be beneficial to society as a whole.

Re: Smoking & playing sax

Originally Posted by toughtenor

there was a documentary about the cost of smoking to society last week here. It turned out smokers actually contributed greatly to the overall budget. Not because of the high taxes on each pack of cigs but because they die a lot younger and therefore do not burden the old age pension systems and all the things that go with old age ( bad hips, eyesight, you name it) that cost society money.
So killing yourself with smoke turns out to be beneficial to society as a whole.

Cool.

Sometimes I think that the biggest impetus for anti-smoking laws is provided by the insurance industry. If they can get people to stop smoking then they don't pay out as much. I think the same about mandatory wearing of helmets by motorcyclists; the industry lobbied state legislatures to pass the helmet mandatory law. People go along thinking this is a good thing AND their insurance premiums would go down.... I doubt very seriously that has happened. [Granted, smoking and not wearing a helmet are both foolish, but that's not my point.]

If you can't dazzle them with brilliance...then baffle 'em with bullsh*t.

Re: Smoking & playing sax

I quit smoking about 28 years ago.
I did it "cold turkey."
I decided that I didn't want to bring kids into an unhealthy environment.
I found it difficult to play longer phrases sometimes.
I sat down with a calculator and figured out that I smoked away enough money to buy another sax!

Quitting cigarettes just made sense.

I would encourage my smoking friends to quit cigarettes. You don't need it.

Re: Smoking & playing sax

Originally Posted by toughtenor

there was a documentary about the cost of smoking to society last week here. It turned out smokers actually contributed greatly to the overall budget. Not because of the high taxes on each pack of cigs but because they die a lot younger and therefore do not burden the old age pension systems and all the things that go with old age ( bad hips, eyesight, you name it) that cost society money.

Oh, I've been telling folks that for years whenever they go on about the high costs for medical treatment of smokers. Medicine is now all about quantity, not quality of life. Pays better.

Re: Smoking & playing sax

Rauchen Verboten!
Many may recall the Camel ads depicting jazz musicians which were totallly discusting. Thank god we are beyond that era of glamorizing smoking in connection to musicians. At least we can all play and ride in an airplane in a smoke free invironment in clubs, etc. There is some progress for sure.
My first teacher and sax mentor ended up tethered to oxygen and could not play for the last 5 years of his life. It was very sad to to see him wither away prematuraly. I feel sorry for people who cannot break the habit. For those who do not smoke, no explanation is required, for those that cannot kick the habit until it is too late, sadly none is possible.

Re: Smoking & playing sax

Originally Posted by jazzbluescat

Cool.

Sometimes I think that the biggest impetus for anti-smoking laws is provided by the insurance industry. If they can get people to stop smoking then they don't pay out as much. I think the same about mandatory wearing of helmets by motorcyclists; the industry lobbied state legislatures to pass the helmet mandatory law. People go along thinking this is a good thing AND their insurance premiums would go down.... I doubt very seriously that has happened. [Granted, smoking and not wearing a helmet are both foolish, but that's not my point.]

A motercyclist died this week during a protest against the helmet mandatory law, he didn't wore a helmet(duh) and hit is head on the pavement

Re: Smoking & playing sax

Originally Posted by jazzbluescat

Cool.

Sometimes I think that the biggest impetus for anti-smoking laws is provided by the insurance industry. If they can get people to stop smoking then they don't pay out as much. I think the same about mandatory wearing of helmets by motorcyclists; the industry lobbied state legislatures to pass the helmet mandatory law. People go along thinking this is a good thing AND their insurance premiums would go down.... I doubt very seriously that has happened. [Granted, smoking and not wearing a helmet are both foolish, but that's not my point.]

Originally Posted by piwikiwi

A motercyclist died this week during a protest against the helmet mandatory law, he didn't wore a helmet(duh) and hit is head on the pavement

I saw that...ironic, eh?

I still maintain that it was a power move catering to the heart strings and logic of people just make more money for the insurance industry. Helmets should be optional, maybe listed as a preexisting condition on your insurance policy.

If you can't dazzle them with brilliance...then baffle 'em with bullsh*t.

Re: Smoking & playing sax

Originally Posted by jazzbluescat

I saw that...ironic, eh?

I still maintain that it was a power move catering to the heart strings and logic of people just make more money for the insurance industry. Helmets should be optional, maybe listed as a preexisting condition on your insurance policy.

I doubt that, sometimes people need to be protected from themselves. In this case.

We have an interesting time with the smoking debate at the moment. The government wants to make all cigarettes be sold in plain paper packaging. The tobacco industry is launching an advertising campaign to oppose this move along the lines of this move is attacking smokers rights unfairly and that it is promoting a nanny state. The tobacco industry know that this will make it very hard to bring in the next generation of nicotine addicts, how uncool is plain paper packaging when you are young. Don't make it illegal just make it uncool....sometimes the government can be smart. As for the tobacco industry, profiting by peddling addiction that leads to premature death and disability.....I feel really sorry for them.

Re: Smoking & playing sax

Unfortunately for Easy Rider there the road was paved with pavement. How'd you like to have to deliver that eulogy!

ps. smoking is stooopid!

Martin "Dick Stabile" Tenor: Barone Jazz 7*/GW7

"The spiritual life is built upon a commitment to truth telling and truth living. As master jazz musicians, [John Coltrane and Miles Davis] presented their spirituality within the reality of cool." --Farah Jasmine Griffen and Salim Washington

Re: Smoking & playing sax

Originally Posted by Fader

This is the road paved with good intentions....

You know where that one goes.

I just knew someone was going to say something like that. It's a frickin' helmet not government oppression. If you can't make a distinction between those things then there is something seriously wrong with your mental ability to see nuance. The world is not black and white.

I just knew someone was going to say something like that. It's a frickin' helmet not government oppression. If you can't make a distinction between those things then there is something seriously wrong with your mental ability to see nuance. The world is not black and white.

So why does it matter to you?

PS this is in No way questioning your "mental abilities". I'd really like to know why you care if a stranger to you wears a helmet or not.

Re: Smoking & playing sax

Originally Posted by Timelord

Don't make it illegal just make it uncool...

Oh, I was very honest with my son in regard to smoking when he was growing up. I told him I couldn't lie to him and said very plainly that smoking is cool. Of course anything a parent thinks is cool will be roundly rejected by their offspring, and thus he never smoked.

Re: Smoking & playing sax

Reverse psychology can be very effective I agree, challenging a proud smoker that they don't have the guts or willpower to give up can sometimes work, far better to have never started, the reasons smokers start is many and varied, it is never because they wanted an addiction that affected their health and supported the big salaries of tobacco company execs

Re: Smoking & playing sax

Originally Posted by piwikiwi

Well because I care for my fellow human beings.

That's a good answer an it goes for me too; BTW, I never mentioned government oppression. It's OK to care about someone else, but deciding what's best for them (especially when their actions only affects themselves) is indeed a slippery slope. As a parent - it's a responsibility. As one adult to another it's really none of your business. I know that sounds a bit harsh too, but if a friend wants to pickle themselves in bourbon I'll show concern and even recommend treatment options. Ill even go so far as to take their keys because that would endanger others. If they decide however that they are firmly set on self destruction, I know well enough to let them get on with it. Many of us engage in risky behaviors. I love to SCUBA. I regularly push depth limits and although certified in deep diving, I take a much greater risk every time I bounce past 300' than most riders without helmets (unless they are doing 120 while standing on the seat perhaps) but it's something I do with a passion. Someone with good intentions may well decide that I need to be "protected from myself" as you put it. They will almost assuredly need protection from me if they do too. Where does one draw the line? I can't answer that. I knowingly eat drink and ingest substances known to cause cancer in laboratory animals. Should I be "protected"? Do ya like Ice cream? The stuff is dangerous you know. As dangerous as riding without a helmet to some diabetics. Even if you don't have diabetes, you could probably kill yourself with it given enough time and a strong enough desire...Do you need protection form something?

I have been pondering these questions for months now as my parents grow older. 2 months ago- they went to work daily by choice. Now - They have (combined) been in the emergency room 4 times in the past two weeks. My dad spent 3 weeks in intensive care last month. My mother fell and broke her wrist.They simply insist on caring for themselves. All efforts to get them full time care givers have failed. They run them off. It's not monetary. My wife is living there half of every week and trying to convince them they need help. They do you know. Even the doctors say so. In the end, they will make their own choices. Aside from the material, personal choice is all they really have left. They are damn near as stubborn as their son. Good and bad - It's the way of life - even when you don't want it to be.