Unwanted SWFormatSize Custom Property

Can somebody tell me why the custom property, SWFormatSize, gets added to my drawing custom properties when I Reload the sheet format? I'm building a new set of ASME Y14.1(M) based formats and this is the last thing annoying me. I have "master" drawing files that aren't associated to any part or assembly. I use them to build the formats, set the document options, insert predefined views, etc. and then create the drawing template (.drwdot) and sheet formats (.slddrt) from them.

When I create a new drawing using the newly-created drawing template, everything is fine. Our company's standard drawing custom properties are all in order. But, if I "Reload" the sheet format, it adds this SWFormatSize property with a value of "11in*17in" (or whatever the current sheet size is). I thought maybe it was because I used the $PRP:"SW-Sheet Format Size" property to display the sheet size number in the title blocks. So I tried saving the sheet formats and templates both ways: one with the $PRP:"SW-Sheet Format Size" property and the other simply as "B" or "A3" etc. No dice. It still creates the SWFormatSize property when I reload the sheet format.

This bugs me because users are going to invariably ask: "What is this property? Can I delete it? Why is it there?" Not to mention I don't want it. I can delete it without it affecting anything on the drawing so why is it there in the first place? Ugh.

I'm on SW2011 SP2.0 but this happened on SW2010 SP5.0 too. We just upgraded to 2011 last week.

SWFormatSize property with a value of "11in*17in" (or whatever the current sheet size is).

You said right that this is property for your sheet size, which is already there in your drawing templates.. Simply open up all the drawing templates, delete this property from all of them and save them. Next time when you use the drawing templates this property will not show up.

The property only shows up after I "Reload" the sheet format. It's not in the templates (.drwdot) when they're created nor is the property there when the sheet formats are saved. But should we make a change to our sheet formats down the road and need to reload the sheet formats in the drawings created from these templates, the property will get created. And I don't know where it's coming from.

Please see my original post. I have saved out the drawing template and sheet format 2 different ways and I get the same result even though the property does not exist in my "master" files or drawing template files (.drwdot).

... and if you keep reloading sheet formats it will keep coming back... yes the drawing templates are a bit weird because there's both template files and sheet format files.

If you make a template file for each sheet format file (which feels incredibly backwards when you need to make a global change) then you can get rid of this extra property but if you reload a sheet format it will come back because it's coming from the sheet format itself.

I get what you mean when you say that others will ask why it exists and wonder what it's for. It's like sitting someone at a desk with a shiny red button and telling them "never push this button." Are you going to have your users actually go into the custom properties and edit the table? If you're going out of your way to make your "perfect" drawing templates, you should take it a step further and use the Property Tab Builder. Then you can have them see only what you want them to see as well as display some context. Not as versitile as using the API but it works well.

Already have the Property Manager tab all set up for parts, assemblies, and drawings. Which I am exremely glad they fixed in 2011 by adding the "Apply" and "Reset" buttons so the file isn't automatically modified when opened should the tab have been left activated.

I still don't get where this property is coming from or why it's something that needs to be visible. I know what the size of the sheet is - I don't need an extra property to tell me that. If it used to magically create itself back in the day, I was never aware of it. Then again, our old sheet formats and drawing templates, *ahem* that should be template (singular), were of poor quality. Just trying to do it properly and stuff like this makes me question whether I am doing it properly.

As long as you can logically convey how you want others to use it, and they are able to clearly understand it then I think problem solved.

The only reason I bothered to make a property tab (and eventually an API app) was because it would allow me to hide things that quite frankly, don't need to be explained and are just there for whatever reason such as the sheet size property. Meh, it is what it is...

I get what you mean though, creating master drawing templates are a far greater pain in the bum than they should be, just in general. I don't personally need 16 different versions for all the different drawing sizes that we use, but if it's less steps for the rest of the users to have to deal with then you gotta do what you gotta do. It does feel pretty silly though to create something and tell people they should use it, but then you don't use it yourself. I just go straight to the custom properties when I make something.

I just had to remark that I think you're the first person to defend the new Apply button for the property manager tab that was added in 2011. Since I haven't had a chance to play with it, I don't really understand where you are coming from. Perhaps others would also like to get a fuller explanation.

I understand that part. I was just hoping that Michael would explain his remark "so the file isn't automatically modified when opened should the tab have been left activated". I don't really understand what was happening before the new "Apply". How was the file automatically modified? Because a user left the tab active when they saved the file? How is the tab left active?

I don't recall ever having an issue with files automatically updating (on opening) because the property tab was filled out and left open...

In the past I have started to fill out the property tab and then stopped for whatever reason only to find that I have accidently updated the file properties because I didn't cancel out (which makes complete sense). This only effects the version in memory until you click save though, so it was never really a problem for me.

The same thing still occurs when you're manually filling out the custom properties or configuration specific properties. If you enter some data and then change tabs or go to a different configuration your changes are still active. I actually like that since I don't want to have to click apply for every configuration I update.

My property page includes a field cage code which is set to our company's-guess what-cage code.

Now, in 2010, if I open a COTS item without a CAGE CODE and the properties tab is showing, it will add that property to the file then and there and I might completely miss that I don't have write access to the file or that it's not the right cage code.

I got stung by this a couple of times. So I was glad when they put the apply button in there.

I like it for the stated reasons and also because you can make a change, hit the Apply button and see the effect. I just wish for an enhancement in that if you make changes and click out before hitting the Apply, it would prompt you with a "Are you sure you want to lose your changes?" message. And then of course the option to always automatically apply without the message.

This has nothing to do with the Sheet Format or Document Templates. I have never used the SWFormatSize property on any of mine ... ever.

I open a new drawing ... it just has the standard properties which I have assigned within the template, but the SWFormatSize property is magically created by SW if I add a second sheet ... which is always exactly the same as the first sheet.

This is something which has only recently (last couple of versions ?) started. I'm the only user here, so it really doesn't bother me or anyone else, but I am curious as to the purpose of the property. The Help files do not return any hits for the SWFormatSize property.

Just use the tab builder and be done with it. I already wasted enough time trying to make this mysterious property go away, then I came to the conclusion that rather than wasting any more time pursuing the destruction of something that, quite possibly may be there for a reason (though likely not), I should just put it towards more productive endeavors. Since I was going to use the tab builder anyway...

But who am I kidding... Why is it there?!?

I want to say that due to the lack of documentation regarding this matter, in all likelihood it's residual negligence... but then so many concepts that I consider important are also lacking documentation!