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Amie here first: Hello! Before I left Pub(lishing) Crawl back in July, I asked Melanie Crowder (who you may remember from such earlier hits as the Parched cover reveal) to write us a post, and she’s obliged with a heap of wisdom. Today, she’s talking about the difference between going on submission with a proposal vs a full manuscript. Read on!

Ask most writers what kind of sale they’d like next, and they’ll answer: any kind. The sold kind. The I have another book coming out kind.

But the different kinds of sales play out very…well, differently.

Let’s look at the pros and cons of both options.

The Proposal: Pros

You don’t have to write the whole book before making a sale!

The money comes in while you’re working on the book. Fantastic!

You can write without the stress of wondering if the book you’re working on will ever turn into an actual book.

The Proposal: Cons

You don’t have to write the whole book before making a sale.

Why, exactly, is this a bad thing? (cue pesky inner voices…) What if I run out of inspiration halfway through? What if the plot, which seemed like it would work perfectly in outline form, stops working? What if it isn’t any good?

Stress. Doubt. Angst. Not the best environment for creative work.

Also? Synopses and summaries and pitches are really tough to get right.

Hmmmmm. Let’s have a look at the other option.

The Full Manuscript: Pros

You have time to run the story by your beta readers.

You have time to get everything working thematically and structurally before an editor ever sees it.

By the time it’s good enough to send to your editor, you’re probably at least halfway done!

You get the chance to fall truly, madly, deeply in love with your story without looming deadlines.

The Full Manuscript: Cons

You may work for months or even years on a story that isn’t what your editor is looking for.

You may write a story that you love, and your editor loves, but that can’t make it past the acquisition process.

It’s tricky knowing when to send a manuscript to your editor. You don’t want to hold on to it too long and overwork the poor thing. But you also don’t want to send it in before it’s really ready, before it’s the quality of book a whole team can get behind.

So if I had my choice, which would I pick?

Well, my first two books, Parched and Audacity were sold as full manuscripts. I loved being able to shape each story into a book I was really proud of before anyone ever laid eyes on it. But I’ll admit, there were some anxiety-filled moments while we were waiting for a sale!

My 3rd book, A Nearer Moon, and my 5th book, an untitled Middle Grade, were both submitted via proposal. That vote of confidence from your publishing house from the start of a project is really great. But there’s some stress there too. You can’t ever really get away from it, you just learn how to tune it out while you’re working.

I suppose the submission sweet spot for me came with my 4th book, a super-secret project I’m not yet divulging the details of. It was the second part of Audacity’s two book deal. It sold as an unspecified YA, with a far-away deadline that gave me security and freedom, motivation and time. Yep, if the literary gods let us pick, that would be my choice.

What about you? What are you hoping for, or what have you discovered works best for you? Whatever your preference, here’s to many submission success stories in your future!

MELANIE CROWDER holds an MFA from VCFA and is the author of three books for children and teens: Parched, Audacity, and A Nearer Moon. Her books have received honors such as Junior Library Guild selection, Parent’s Choice Silver Medal, Bank Street College’s Best Books of the Year and a collective eight starred reviews from Kirkus, SLJ, PW, BCCB, and SLC. She lives in beautiful Colorado; catch up with her online at Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, or her website.

Above is Doppo the Arctic fox, one of my favorite characters to draw. I probably sketched it in under a minute.

Just got home from the city. I live right on the outskirts and need to travel downtown to get art supplies. I took the GoTrain which is part of Toronto's mass transit system. It goes from here (Etobicoke) to downtown Toronto in about 15 minutes. On the way it winds through all these industrial backlots and crumbling Victorian brick factories. I love that trip. After the train drops me off it keeps going west to Aldershot, which is known for it's military base. I am always tempted to stay on the train and keep going. I almost get overwhelmed with curiosity every time. I've never been that far west and I wonder what's out there.

I went in town to buy pencils. I bought a huge pile of 3Bs which is currently my hardness of choice. Just soft enough to give a rich dark line but not so soft that it disappears in one drawing session, eaten up by the electric pencil sharpener. I also bought jogging pants. This has been one unhealthy winter.

Also, today draws to a close what has become n annual search for an agent. I've had problems with this. It's funny but I have an easier time getting published than I do getting an agent. Whenever I've had a really good idea it never seems to take long to find a home for it. Agencies are different. I don't know why but I have some guesses. I think your relationship with a publisher is short term. You do a book and that's it, no real obligation after that. With agencies it's different, the relationship is meant to be a reciprocal one that ought to last for a long time, years. Another thing is marketing. An agent is as concerned with how well they can market you, maybe more so than how talented you are. And how well an agency can market you can depend on how well you fit into the overall style of artists they already represent. If you're too different than their other artists it can be hard to market you and if you're too close to their current artists it might create redundancy in their agency or even competitiveness.

In any case, this round of agent hunting is over. Now it's phase two. Which is a funny way of saying I'm putting together proposals to send to publishers. So far this has been the most effective thing I've done. I think my ideas are good and publishers like the idea of one person doing both the story and the art for picture books and comic books. I think the industry seems to be moving that way.

I like the character Doppo you drew. I like 3B pencils too but they are not a readily available as 2B, at least at the local art supply store. Thanks for sharing that bit on getting an agent. I have been debating seeking out an agent for myself. A writer I am illustrating for has been seeking out an agent for our book collaboration (I have heard it is necessary for book publishing). I have attempted to send examples of work to publishers but have had nothing come of it.

Eric, I know what you mean. I have drawers full of drawings and sketches and ideas--and more rolling around in my brain. Confusing to find the right people, methinks. The little dummy sketch looks intriguing.

I’ve read where at least some agents accept queries on proposal for an unfinished manuscript when the author’s previous books are printed in the traditional print-run process. I did not see this addressed on your website and would appreciate knowing if this is something your agency ever considers.

Typically, if an author has been previously published from one of the bigger houses it is quite possible to sell the next work on proposal, without a full manuscript. In those cases the author will not need to finish the book before querying an agent. A proposal should be enough.

Now, that being said, of course there are exceptions to the “rule.” This will depend on the agent and agency. Everyone is different. It will also depend on the genre you were published under and the genre you are now writing in. For example, if you were previously published in category romance and now want to write women’s fiction, it is quite possible you’ll need to finish the manuscript before seeking publication.

To answer your question specifically, when querying BookEnds, if you are previously published, a proposal should be enough.

Do agents and authors stick together after the first book? I would think that if your first book stold by the gross ton that the agent would be holding on to you as a client. Am I just living in a bubble gum fairy land or is there some loyalty?

To answer the question on loyalty. There may be a number of reasons a published writer is seeking a new agent:- the agent is retiring or leaving the business- the agent doesn't like the writers next book and doesn't wish to rep it, but the author believes in the book and wants it sent out- the author feels they don't have a good fit with their agent. Maybe they don't like the communication style, or they feel the agent wasn't aggressive enough in negotiations etc. I know some authors who feel that as their career progresses they are looking for something different from the agent and as a result they want a new one

However there are many authors who stick with their agents. It isn't so much about loyalty, it's about a business decision. I wouldn't stay with my agent just to be loyal if I thought it was hurting my career. Howeveer I have huge respect for her and would always want to work tinge out if possible.

Why do you think that? Finding the right agent isn't like buying a car. You are looking for someone who is going to be with you long term, who will help guide your career, who fits what you are doing now and where you want to go.

I have changed agents once (because my new genre focus didn't match her area of expertise.) But I have every intention of staying with my current agent for the rest of my career.

If anything, an agent becomes more valuable as move forward with future books.

Anon: Oh, my... the work that goes into finding the right agent for the author is huge. Why on earth would an author only look toward an agent as a one book wonder? If an author writes two different genres, and the agent they are targeting only takes one of them, the author might want to look elsewhere. JMHO.

Anonymous said, on 10/7/2010 6:58:00 AM

Hey, I would love to have an agent that I could work with my entire career, but I have a strong feeling it isn't going to work out that way. I'm on an agent search now. I have several projects going all in different directions. My case in point is the other day while beating the bushes for an agent for the fiction project I just finished, one agent I chatted with was not interested in my latest novel, but my soon-to-be completed YA excited her. So did a sports article I'd just finished which she thinks I should turn into a book proposal. So there I am. I may end up with as many agents as I have books. What do you want I should do???

Sometimes Random Questions are my favorite posts. Quick and easy. Here’s another batch of questions that I think are important for readers to see, but not long enough to warrant a full blog post.

I have written a novel, but feel the best comparisons are narrative nonfiction. Is using narrative nonfiction to compare with a novel acceptable in a pitch, or is this a bad idea?

I think it’s fine. Comparing your book to another often means that you feel the same audience might be interested in your book.

I am working on a nonfiction humor book and when I looked around the web a few years ago I noticed everyone wanted a book proposal. Now that I renewed my interest in my book idea I noticed most agents are asking for queries. I thought queries were for fiction and proposals for nonfiction. Is it standard that agents are only accepting queries for nonfiction? Should I write a proposal and have it ready in case I get a response on my query?

Sadly there are no easy outs in publishing, for fiction or nonfiction. Queries are standard for any submission you want to make to an agent. It’s a way for us to evaluate if the book is even right for us before you send material. Should you have the proposal done? Yes, before you even think of the query. If you get a request, the proposal should be ready to send that night.

If your book is a memoir (creative nonfiction or narrative nonfiction), written in the style of a novel, do you submit a fiction proposal or a nonfiction proposal package?

Is it just me or does it feel like I answer this question monthly. Just an fyi, the answer is on the FAQ of our web site. But to answer again, narrative nonfiction, creative nonfiction, memoir, whatever it is you want to call the book should be submitted as if it were a fiction proposal.

I am completely baffled on the correct system to employ to estimate word count on a completed manuscript.

I think this question is probably one of the most frequently asked questions I receive. Let’s do it this way. Just follow your word processing program’s word count. If you think that makes the count too high or too low, then count roughly 250 words per page. Honestly, when we get the manuscript we can tell whether it’s too long or too short just from holding the pages. Word count isn’t an exact science, especially since it’s about how the words translate to the published book. It’s rough. Just do what you’re comfortable with; as long as you're reasonably within a range, you should be fine.

Would there be any benefit to starting a blog and posting short stories on a regular basis to try and generate a "reader base,” or am I better served to spend that time working on another book and querying agents?

I’m not convinced that blogs are necessarily the best way to build a writing career. I know they are suggested and I do think that getting out and participating in a blog, on occasion, once you’re published, can help with publicity. That being said, I think it’s rare that the unpublished author gets picked up for a book deal because of a blog. If you really want to write short stories and publish them on a blog, go ahead. Otherwise, work to get your shorts published in literary magazines and spend your time on your next book. If a novel is what you want to write then you should be writing novels.

I have a quick question after reading your post on word count. I am not sure my manuscript is long enough. Several people at Absolute Write told me 56K is fine for my YA urban fantasy. I thought I should ask an agent whose advice I can count on. Do you think that is too short?

I think that you’re a little short, probably not dangerously short though. The problem is that you’re writing YA Urban Fantasy, which tends to be a tad longer. If it’s easy for you to bring it up closer to 70k words, I would try to do that. If it’s a stretch then you s

Thanks for the answer about the blog. I talked to a friend about this last night -- that I want to spend my time working on my novel, not on blogging. But the pressure to blog seems so intense. A weight has been lifted. The novel gets most of my writing time from here on out.

Several people at Absolute Write told me 56K is fine for my YA urban fantasy. I thought I should ask an agent whose advice I can count on. Do you think that is too short? YA Urban Fantasy... tends to be a tad longer. If it’s easy for you to bring it up closer to 70k words, I would do that.

I’ve found that quite a few agents who are open to representing nonfiction self-help books request a query and the proposal in the same email. My query contains a brief description of the book, how it differs from competitive titles, and a little about me. The proposal contains the same information, although in more detail (as well as sample chapters, marketing plans, competitive titles, etc.). A friend (a published narrative nonfiction author) said there should be no repetition in the proposal of anything that was in the query, so if I’m sending the proposal and the query at the same time, I need to remove all repetition of information. Is my friend correct?

A reminder to everyone, whether you’re writing fiction or nonfiction: there are guidelines to submitting material and there’s advice on making your submissions stronger, but there are very, very few “rules” and, believe it or not, very, very few things that authors do to result in “instant rejection.” Why am I reminding you of this? Because ultimately the answer to your question has no right or wrong, and doesn’t really matter in the grand scheme of things.

Anytime you submit anything to anyone you are going to be required to write a query. I represent nonfiction self-help and my standard is that I want a query first. If I like the query then I’ll typically ask for the proposal to be sent as an email attachment with the query included, just as you describe. Having the query helps me refresh my memory and reminds me of who you are.

In my mind, there’s no way to write a query without including the same information. Your proposal should include everything about you and your book that you deem important to showing agents why your book is needed, how it’s different and what makes you the only author to write such a great and necessary work. Your query is what’s going to grab my attention and make me want to read more. To properly write that you’re going to have to condense what you’ve written in your proposal. In other words, it’s the best of the best of the proposal.

To make the answer short and sweet: there’s no way to write the query without repeating the same information that’s in your proposal. Hopefully, though, you’ll find a new way to write some of it.

And one last note, something I really feel the need to say . . . make sure you understand where your advice is coming from and how the advice giver knows. Querying, selling, and writing narrative nonfiction is extremely different from self-help nonfiction. While I’m not saying your friend doesn’t know what she’s talking about, I am saying that her experience will likely be very different from yours.

It seems that often enough an author makes the agent work so hard that it’s not worth the effort. For example, instead of a query letter, I simply get a one-sentence description and a link to a web site that really includes very little information about the book. For some reason I’m still interested, so I write the author back asking for more description. I’m still not really given any information and instead am sent to another place where I can read something. This something still doesn’t include the information I was requesting. At this point it’s just become too hard. Why am I chasing this book all over the Internet when I still don’t really know what the book is about? More important, though, I suspect that this particular author and I simply cannot communicate. No matter how many times I ask I’m not able to get the information I need, and that doesn’t bode well for future editorial feedback or requests from the publisher.

I have to say, situations like this happen almost weekly, and if I have to work this hard and it’s this difficult before I even know if it’s a book I want to represent, it’s only going to get worse. The reason there are so many guidelines out there on query letters, proposals, etc., is not because agents are looking to make your lives more difficult, but we’re looking for insight into your book and future working relationships. We don’t expect perfection, but we do hope it can go as smoothly as possible.

Why do agents sometimes ask for partials or fulls snail-mailed rather than emailed? I can’t answer for them, of course, but for me, I can only spend so much time sitting in front of a computer reading anything. If you’ve been paying attention, you’ll notice that agents receive hundreds of email queries each week, not to mention emailed submissions as well. Besides, if you think spending a week writing a synopsis is “all this work”, try reading the hundreds of submissions agents receive. Now, THAT’S work!

Personally, I’d be thrilled if an agent found my query interesting enough to ask me for a proposal, and if I didn’t get a response in about 3 months time, I’d follow the guidelines on the BookEnds site and send an email requesting a status update.

That could be and I guess it depends on your perspective, but each day I acquire a new reader, someone brand new to publishing who really knows nothing or someone who finds me through the web site while just beginning the search and while my regular readers aren't going to learn anything from this post maybe, just maybe, someone who was told to just email a web link will learn why it's not working.

Sometimes a blog post isn't about teaching something significant because I know I can't say something entirely new and different and brilliant 250+ times a year, sometimes it's just sharing a piece of my day and if a few people can get a chuckle or breathe a sigh of relief that they now know so much better then that's a bonus.

If it comes across as complaining so be it. There's no doubt that sometimes I do use this blog as an avenue to just complain. Other times I use it to just rave.

Whoa. I've read grumpy blog posts before -- who hasn't? I think the point of agent blogs is to give struggling writers (along with everyone else who reads these) a sense of what they are getting into -- a real world view of the industry from an agent's perspective.

Jessica's blog, and others like it, can open our eyes to things we should NOT do, as much as things we should be doing.

And for those of us who are still struggling to become professionals, it can be a relief to know that we are at least doing a few things right! (As well as all the embarrassingly naive things we've done wrong.)

And since I changed my account to show my real name, after all the anonymous brouhaha yesterday, I really hope I spelled "embarrassingly" right.

Becke, I'm sorry. I'm not sorry to see your name and your profile, but I can see I handled that poorly yesterday.

I get upset when I see Jessica being attacked. It's not that I always agree with her, but they make is so personal. They don't just discuss the ideas. They all seem to flood in at once, and it makes the discussion very unpleasant.

I had no problem with your post, Mira. I just realized by using "Treethyme," I was still maintaining anonymity. Thought if I was going to post, I'd better have the nerve to use my real name.

Anonymous said, on 7/7/2009 4:20:00 PM

Jessica, maybe you shold take a break from the blog and not force yourself to write every day...we all get burnt out sometimes. After all, you've been very generous, opening up your blog to agentfail and all the aftermath, so you do have a right to complain! Don't we all?

We do like to hear your good news as well and any useful pub news now and then.

ps/Get over the Anons, people!We're not cowards, we're just practical.

Becke - you're treethyme? I like your posts - and I always thought that was a clever name. Nice to meet you in person.

Anon - there's a difference between practical and taking advantage of the situation. The second should be beneath any writer. We understand the power of words, and using them for petty attacks should be beneath us. Words are meant for better things.

for the love of god peeps, Jessica is a person like you or me, who happens to be an agent. We read her blog, obviously because we find she's informative and I for one think its wonderful that she takes the time to share her knowledge. That being said, sheesh, if you don't like what you're reading, then go elsewhere. I think (since it's her blog) she can pretty much talk about whatever the heck she wants. If she's having a fritter the time away day, and wants to surf the net because someone intrigued her, well why can't she? if she wants to write about it, that's fine too. Not every post needs to be earth shattering.

I just think too many people over analyze these types of blogs to death and forget that the writers are just normal people putting their thoughts out there.

I took a week off agent blogs to give my mind a rest from all the business aspects of writing. Think I might need another one, goodness it's been snarky!

Let's be honest, when we read Jessica's story, I bet most of us felt a tinge of jealousy that someone else had figured out a way to interest an agent using a different angle (or in this case no angle at all) while we're still struggling to get folks to ask for partials.

It's a tough, tough business whether you're a writer, an agent or a publisher.

I like this. A snarky agent like Miss Snark can complain about nitwits lacking clueguns and everyone laps it up like it's going out of style. Don't get me wrong, I adore Miss Snark and I treat her advice like gold nuggets.

A nice agent like Jessica gently addresses an age-old, annoying habit committed by writers who act like hormonal teenagers (what do grownups know? Can't they see I'm BRILLIANT?) and the Anons jump down her throat for complaining.

Everyone has the right to bitch once in a while, especially when people make the same mistakes over and over again.

Jessica, don't let the trolls squish you. You have every right to vent, and we value your advice no matter how it's presented.

Anon 6:53 - I would get over myself but I'm so wonderful it would just be wrong. Terribly, terribly wrong. Someone needs to admire me, and since no one else has stepped up, I'm more than happy to fill in the gap. Really. Anytime I need me, I'm there.

As for attacking people myself, you're right. I wish I had handled yesterday better.

I apologize for name calling. That was wrong.

I realize that underneath all of this, you're trying to say something. I just wish you'd say it more....constructively.

Please. Many of us here want an atmosphere of genuine debate and friendly interchange.

And if you think I'm all sweetness and nice and never give agents a hard time, that's only because you don't know me well. I took over an entire thread once for 3 days ranting about how underpaid writers are. So, I have no interest in stopping someone who is advocating for writers. I'm just asking that you do it in a way that keeps the door open for communication.

I thought this post captured an important thought. If you had asked for a different place to go where you could find "x" information, and you were sent there by the author...and the info wasn't there, and it kept going on...you probably wouldn't have a very good agent/client relationship.

I think that it would be exhausting chasing down info like that, only to be disappointed in the end.

Mira: Category 2 - Hence, why I didn't comment really on anything other that a) I already had learned it was a misguided query tactic and b) People would still write the same old thing anyway

Jessica: Trust me - you won't find it so amusing after I post that same message on every comments section after every post.....;0)

Anon 11:58: If you're male, thanks, but I'm hotel only. If you're female, I'm sorry but I'm seeing someone....If you're female and HOT then drop me a message sometime. We'll get together, have a little food, a little wine, or cocktails if you prefer. I make a mean Mojito, I'll mix you one if you like back at my place.......?

Word verification - Octic: How drunk you are after the 8th pint of Peroni

No offense, but are you nuts? Your previous post, The Meaning of Different, was very informative. So, let me be informative in this comment.

Do not click links in emails from people that you don't know. There are some attacks out there that only require you viewing a web page for your computer to become infected. The devil is in the details (eg, if your computer is vulnerable to particular attacks, etc.), so be careful.

Ah yes, another example of people who think they are very clever, but who exhibit the symptoms of a short attention span. I was, emphasis on was, in a critique group several years ago with a writer who had ADHD. She thought every word was a pearl of wisdom, that agents would tumble over each other like puppies to follow her many links to partially filled web sites and blogs. And the result was inevitable -- nothing is yet finished, the links are broken, and the writer still doesn't get it.

Help an agent help you. Do what she asks. Communicate via e-mail if that is preferred. Call if invited.

Easy with he rule of thumb there, Betsy. The reason she was convinced her works were more important than the 2nd coming of Christ wasn't because she had ADHD, but more than likely a purely characteristic trait that can't be attributed to a medical condition.

For the rest of the stuff though - we do have a tendancy to leave little unfinished projects lying around like some misbehaved literary dog. Sorry 'bout that.......=0)

While I did not participate in #queryfail, a few weeks ago I did follow some of the feedback/fallout in the aftermath. Much of which can be read here in Nathan Bransford’s comment section. I am not going to get in the middle of the discussion of whether or not those who participated in #queryfail were wrong or what their intentions were. What I do want to address is something that’s stuck in my head since first reading the many discussions on the topic, and that’s that writers are people too.

What seemed to resonate most with me from those who objected to #queryfail was the feeling that agents were not considering the feelings of writers. Now let’s take this fully out of the context of #queryfail, please, because again, I refuse to discuss that. So when looking at the idea that agents don’t think of writers as people, you are, to some degree, entirely correct. When reading queries, proposals, or submissions of any kind I cannot think of the face behind the page. That’s not my job and can’t be my job. It’s my job to think of the words on the page and what they do for me and to me and whether or not I think they translate into sales.

When I first started out as a young editor and later as an agent I remember being touched and confused about how to handle the vast number of queries I received (and still receive) from authors looking to write a memoir based on their own experiences of sexual abuse, cancer, or death of a loved one. For me the toughest ones are always those writing about the death of a spouse or child. But the truth is that I can’t treat those people any differently than I treat the author who has written a romance novel, SF, or business book simply because I know their past.

I don’t think any agent will deny that writers are people and each writer deserves respect and serious consideration, but submissions aren’t people. When considering submissions we don’t think of the people and, to some degree, don’t care about the people behind the page. All we care about, all editors care about, and all your readers are ever going to care about is whether or not you’ve written a good book. And yes, sometimes that blinds us a bit, but I suspect it also protects us from the depressing job of rejecting hundreds upon hundreds of people each week. Because we aren’t rejecting people, we’re rejecting the words on the page.

There is no other way you could do your job. Writers are people, but they're usually people you will not know.

Anonymous said, on 3/30/2009 7:46:00 AM

For some people, writing is therapy and perhaps should remain private. As a journalist, I've been asked numerous times to write people's memoirs--but I always decline and encourage them to purge their own past. Some of that pain is best left to a diary.

But as for genre fiction, it's frustrating to wait FOREVER for any kind of response from an agent--esp on a REQUESTED ms.

That's why Twitter, etc, annoys me--it's just one more way for all of us to waste time. Queryfail seemed like a bunch of smug, sarcastic agents who ganged up on clueless writers to point out how pathetic and lame their queries were--and how superior they are. Not my kind of agent.

Yes, writers are people but the only way an agent or editor can do their job objectively and effectively is by remaining emotionally detached (to a degree). In other words, agents/editors are like doctors. I know you're thinking "whoa!" but let me explain. Doctors are taught to not get too emotionally involved with patients. That doesn't mean they don't see patients as people or that they don't care...it means that they need to remain objective in their treatment of that individual. There's a reason surgeons don't operate on family members. A doctor must do their best to insure the health and survival of a patient regardless of race, sex, criminal background etc... Likewise, and agent or editor wants to insure the health and survival of whatever manuscript they represent. Their focus is the writing...not the writer. Okay, so unlike editors/agents, doctors don't pick and choose which patients live and which die. But editors/agents do read all queries which, in essence, is giving the writer a chance. Just imagine the issues and lawsuits that would be born out of writers submitting queries/manuscripts with a photo, demographics and personal info attached! On that note, since doctors must respect patients and their privacy, editors/agents should do so for writers...unless they want a bad name for themselves and a drastic reduction in submissions to their agencies.

I am pre-published and I appreciated query fail as educational. I know as a parent we share our children's misunderstandings and cute word choices and in no way are we putting our children down. We know they will grow. So for me we who are pre-published are like children who do "cute" laughable things until we learn how not to fall down.

We just can't be so thin skinned if we ever hope to "grow up" from writers to authors.

Anonymous said, on 3/30/2009 8:12:00 AM

You know, I can understand perfectly the need to remain detached so that you can have a purer view of the actual work.

That works.

I think the problem with #queryfail (or maybe it's salvation) was giving authors the ability to gain their own detached perspective of agents. It allowed any of them who were watching the ability to detach from their own work and see the agents from another viewpoint. It was very easy for them to see which agents were childish and unprofessional and snarky.

Life is too short to be a jerk, and honestly it's too short to deal with any more than you absolutely have to, either.

Being objective about a submission is not the same as going into a public forum and mocking people.

You guys at Bookends are lovely, Nathan is lovely. I just have to say that the whole thing left a bad taste in my mouth, and if I were ever to submit a book, I would now have a very clear view of who I would not want to work with because of #queryfail.

Managing people in the real world (as opposed to the fiction realm) requires that we set aside employees' personal struggles and communicate that they still must accomplish their job. While we can empathize with their experiences outside the office, and offer programs to assist, we still need performance 8-5. There is no other way to maintain and propel a career. Writing isn't any different. It's art, but it is work. Thanks for the reminder we're only interesting if our production is worthy.

I didn't see queryfail, but I've listened to a session of RWA Idol. Snark is hard to do as caringly as Miss Snark managed it. It doesn't give the best of first impressions.

But it's like anything else. There are plenty of people who don't mind and will query those agents. There are some who will be turned off by that sort of public mocking, like me. And that's how it should be. It's about finding a match, not making everyone attractive to everyone.

Considering most of these agents are getting hundreds of queries a month, a serious reduction probably isn't a threat. :)

But I like what you said about the doctor bit, because it is true. I was going to use ambulance, because that is what I have experience in. Let me tell you, the EMTs are laughing at you. Usually not if it's something small: a fall, a minor injury, etc. But the big ones--strokes, serious car accidents, etc.--they're standing around joking about it later. Because laughing is a form of crying. Because there is only so much we can do. Because we need to separate from the people and the trauma so we can be ready and going for the next one.

Agents know they hold writer's hopes and dreams in every query. And they also know there are only a certain number of clients they can responsibly take on and still be a good agent. That means a lot of good queries get rejected for no other reason than, it's just not right. I'm betting those are the ones that make agents cry at night.

Besides, the moment you send off your query, you are essentially saying that your writing is ready for the public. This is not like medical results that can cause you to lose your job or various other personal things. This is not discussing that rash in a private place. These are words you sent out to a business person (not a friend and last I saw, agents don't have confidentiality rules like doctors, lawyers, or clergy) because you think you and your writing are ready for the world. You better be ready or be able to take the heat. Getting an agent is the beginning.

Nancy Kress, who has won pretty much every SF award imaginable, talks about winning a Nebula (I think it was the Nebula) and getting a rejection on the same day.

It's astounding how many of my writing colleagues and clients take rejection personally. My advice to them is to suck it up, revise (because often they've sent out the work at least one draft too soon), and resubmit.

Anonymous said, on 3/30/2009 8:42:00 AM

This is why Professional Courtesy is such a wonderful thing. Professional Courtesy can stay emotionally detached from the person being shown courtesy to. Professional Courtesy is all about how the Professional conducts him or herself and nothing to do with whether the person receiving the courtesy deserves it. Professional Courtesy reflects directly on the person who has it, or doesn't have it. I was glad not to have a query with any of the editors or agents who participated in QueryFail and they can be certain they will never have a query from me in the future.

Queryfail was fine. We've been listening to agents snark on the craft of queries for years now, but suddenly when it's agents doing it with other agents in a more public atmosphere people get their feathers ruffled. And somehow we figured agents never talked about horrible queries with other agents? Pfft. Most of us know that agents have respect for most writers. They'd be out of a job without writers, and who is going to willingly get into a job where you have no respect for those you represent? We aren't talking lawyers here. This isn't big money. It's love of books and the craft of writing, and if you can't have a sense of humor about the fact that some who try the craft are laughably poor at it, then too bad I say. This industry is too full of stress as it is to not be able to make light of a few things. It goes on in pretty much any industry on some level, so those writers who took issue need to get a little thicker skin. It's not like we saw anything new with this. It was just new technology for doing what has been going on for a long time. I hope they do it again actually, though it still wouldn't get me to sign up for twitter.

Spades said, on 3/30/2009 8:51:00 AM

Well put. As a writer I don't want to be laughed at nor do I want my query to be part of a race to the bottom of a pile. With that said, I do want to be professional. A query is like an initial interview for a job -- accent your skill and leave your personal life at home.

I wasn't involved in queryfail and have only heard folks talk "about" it. My two cents would be that we (as in everyone on the planet) would be better off if we refrained from gossip and making fun of people. Of course, that's like asking teenagers not to have sex. It's a good idea, but it's not going to happen. I think there are many agents who wouldn't be rude and insulting to writers in public or in private because they have dignity and respect for all.

Or maybe I'm just dreaming... (Where did I leave my damn helmet??)

Anonymous said, on 3/30/2009 9:07:00 AM

For God's sake! It's not about having thicker skin guys...it's about professionalism. Yes agents talk and laugh amongst agents and doctors laugh about cases with other doctors...but we don't do it in the waiting room around other patients! (yes I speak from experience) That's the point. I expect professionalism and courtesy from any professional I hire or do business with, be it a lawyer, doctor, secretary etc...If I found out they acted like a bunch of gossipy teenagers I wouldn't work with them. Yes...we all do it. Laughter brings fun and a way to cope with the stresses of any business. We can still be discreet and pass good judgement about who we do it around. That's what distinguishes the agents that participated in #queryfail and those that didn't. It's the difference between maturity and immaturity. I guess new technology (ie twitter, blogs etc...) poses us with some new ethical dilemmas that we need to be keenly aware of. And trust me...I have thick skin.

Depersonalizing queries is a simple matter of survival and retaining your sanity.I worked in a hospital for over 20 years. Patients aren't Sally and Joe, they are room numbers. Sometimes that is the only way you can do your job by removing the human factor. Those who are unable to manage it burn out and quit.Does it piss the patients off? You bet it does. Do we start calling patients by their names? Only to their face, they are still room numbers to the rest of the world.

Anonymous said, on 3/30/2009 9:53:00 AM

I have to say I missed the queryfail event, and, even when it was referenced on blogs, I didn't quite clue in to what it was. After you mentioned it, I had to go looking for information. People seem so profoundly entrenched in their camps on this one, with plenty of righteous indignation on both sides. It reminds me of heated conversations I have had with friends who love reality shows/American Idol. I can't stand them (the shows, not the friends). Watching the auditions in which performers are torn apart publicly makes me feel ill. I confess base human behavior leaves me cold. The counterpoint to my opinions is unfailingly, "but they signed up for it." And I say, fair enough. My lasting opinion of queryfail then becomes, "well, they didn't sign up to be publicly discussed." I was a bit horrified to realize that I have a query out with one of the participating agents. I've never hoped for a quick rejection so much in my time of querying (since it appears queryfail 2 is on the schedule).

One other comment I have is that I always think people are brave to submit their queries to QueryShark, or your invitation to submit queries in December (which was profoundly helpful to me). I admire those who enter, though I do not personally wish to be publicly critiqued. It is actually only in the past couple weeks that I have shared my query (outside my group of friends) with a wonderful writer I met on your blog, who has provided invaluable help. Seeking out help in a public or private context is one thing. Becoming a punch line of agents and editors in a public forum is an entirely different thing.

Very well said. To be honest, I wouldn't want agents or editors to think too hard about who I am when evaluating my writing.

If an agent accepted my work simply because she felt guilty or sorry for me, she wouldn't be passionate about it, which means she wouldn't bring her best to the table when it came to shopping it. I don't want that. No writer should. We want you guys to do your best work as much as you want the same from us.

So I'll take the rejection. Happily, in fact. It just means that when my work is accepted, it's because it really deserves to be.

I think too many writers are thin-skinned about these things (#queryfail is a perfect example), and that's too bad. There are a lot of industries out there that are much crueler in their rejection than writing.

Anonymous said, on 3/30/2009 10:24:00 AM

I'm always puzzled when I hear writers complaining about their "Dear Author" rejections (they didn't have the decency to use my name?!). Or the rejection letter that arrives on a half sheet of paper (I didn't warrant a full sheet of paper?!). Writing and submitting is hard enough without looking for reasons to get upset.

I read a bit of queryfail...just for educational purposes. If one of the queries had been mine, I would have been mortified, ashamed, and done better the next time."Bring a helmet." -- That was priceless.

This is very much as it is for physicians and nurses. They must separate themselves from the pains of the job, or be consumed by them.

Professional detachment is necessary to be effective in many occupations.

Confucius says; man who sits on tack gets point.

Anonymous said, on 3/30/2009 11:18:00 AM

Since agents reject 99% of queries anyway, posting the worst examples for a cheap laugh doesn't really help most writers. If agents and editors REALLY wanted to help writers, why not post query letters that actually WORK?

I agree with this completely, but there's one thing I'd like to add (that I don't think changes anything you've said, as it is more relevant later in the game than the submission stage):

My impression is that nowadays it DOES matter what kind of person the writer is. For promotional purposes, basically. Agents, editors, and publishers have to ask not only "Can I sell this book?" but also "Can I sell this author?" At least if they're looking for longevity.

A temperamental diva (even in male form) vs. a kind and sincere person with a tortured past are going to appeal to the public very differently. (Although I suppose it would be wrong to assume people wouldn't prefer the diva... We are kind of strange that way sometimes.)

Like I said, I don't think that changes what you've said -- basically a lot of people who submit don't have thick enough skin to do so, I'm guessing -- but I think it's an interesting addendum.

I am thankful you (and other agents) don't see submissions as "people." I don't want you judging me by my past, my demographic, my age, or ANYTHING other than my ability to take words on a page and make them reach into your heart.

Anonymous said, on 3/30/2009 12:02:00 PM

I can't imagine how you could be a successful agent or publisher (or be any good to the business) if you EVER tried to sell or agreed to publish something just to make the writer happy or because you felt sorry for him or her. This doesn't show a lack of feeling on your part, it's simply your job. And I know from personal experience that you do it with professionalism b/c I received a query rejection from you and found it altogether polite and professional despite the fact that it seemed to be a sort of form rejection. You simply weren't interested but you said it nicely and responded very quickly. I respect that and my writing life goes on. Life is full of disappointments, large and small and learning to make the best of them is part of being not just a writer but a healthy human being.

What do writers think is going to happen when their actual book goes out to the public?

No amount of public ridicule on a query (which, for those of us who actually took the time to READ the queryfail tweets know, there was very little, if any, ridicule) can compare to the media and blog reviews that will rip the actual book to shreds.

There will be people who outright despise your book, and will say so publicly in front of large groups of actual readers who may decide not to purchase the book.

In those reviews, you won't have the benefit of anonymity. You also won't have the opportunity to take the criticism and fix things before it's too late.

And guess what? That's all part of the professional life of an author. Being a critic is part of the professional life of an agent. They CHOOSE to make things public so that we as writers can learn the ropes and one day become actual authors.

Agents don't have to do any of that. They could sit silently in their offices and go about their business. But the good agents--the best agents--see educating writers on the industry as part of their jobs. They run blogs and Twitter and make themselves available for questions and discussion.

If I had my druthers, every writer aspiring to publication would spend at least three to six months working in some editorial capacity. The time I spent as an editor for a small literary journal at a local junior college was invaluable. As you said, it helped me realize agents/editors/publishers aren't summarily dismissing writers as people, they're simply looking at words on the page and saying: "Not right for our needs," "Not quite there yet," etc.

I have to say, Queryfail didn't bother me. Mostly because I don't twitter. I just don't get the point of having another place to waste time when I could be writing or doing something a bit more productive. Besides, a lot of the twitter posts I've seen make me think people have lost the ability to use the English language.

I think both sides raise a good point. To add to the professionalism though, as a teacher you don't ridicule a student's writing in front of the entire class. Not only would you probably kill any desire that student had to write ever again, but you'd also get angry phone calls and things from parents. You talk about funny papers and bad writing of students to other teachers and use nameless examples to show the class what not to do, unless they sign up for it. I think it's about constructive criticism and not about how bad you can make someone feel. Faceless or not (Which is how is should be, yay Jessica!)

I know I won't be submitting to any of the agents who do queryfail. For me, it's about professionalism. Do I really want an agent who's going to talk about how bad query letters are in a public setting without much constructive criticism, selling my book? Does that look good on me, and do I really want an agent like that in my corner? If I write something bad on an off day, will it be ridiculed in public by the agent who is suppose to support me?

The point was made that if your book's published, you'll hear stuff like this. Yeah, that's true and we need thick skins regardless. It's the job of critics to tell you their opinion and readers are going to do it based on their taste. However, they aren't the ones trying to sell your book. You can't control those and you aren't paying those guys to vouch for your book. The author, the Agent, and the Editor are. So do you really want an agent and/or an editor that's willing to jump on the public bashing ban wagon? An agent/editor that’s willing to look bad professionally, representing your book?

Some people do. They mesh well with those types of personalities. I’m not one of them. I love Queryshark because those people sign up for it, and I love the straightforwardness of it. It’s constructive criticism and done extremely well. Bashing people for their effort or knowledge level, which is what I’ve seen from queryfail, isn’t. It’s about the level of professionalism you want out of your agent. Me, if I’m going to be a professional writer, I want a professional agent.

I majored in commercial art (illustration). Every assignment was put up in front of the entire class and torn to shreds... er, critiqued, with no anonymity whatsoever.

It wasn't about US, it was about the work. And we learned how to improve the work much faster than if we'd been coddled. The added bonus was that armadillos and tortoises could not compete with the thickness of our hides.

I have absolutely no sympathy for writers who don't get that it isn't about THEM. The publishing business is not about stroking anyone's precious ego.

Anyone who cannot take public ridicule of his or her writing best not seek publication. Period.

Anonymous said, on 3/30/2009 3:01:00 PM

Thanks for todays post!

I went to Nathan's comments. Read just past the 'hissy-fit' Coleen Lindsay got into with a critic. I was disappointed in her behavior as a professional. When I went to her blog to say so I couldn't because it doesn't accept anonymous input. Guess she wants to limit free speech. Not like you or Nathan. Course free-speech doesn't mean 'anonymous' comments aren't edited. Just means you're open to those of us who haven't yet established a web presence.

I did learn on her blog that a second queryfail is planned. Didn't 'tune in' to the first; don't plan to for the second. Why should I? There are so many blogs and websites that show the right and wrong ways of writing a query, including yours.

Makes me wonder whether she's doing what she is for the educational aspects or for the attention. And, whether her clients would be better off (however many they may be) if she spent that time on their behalf rather than antagonizing the ones she's not about to get.

Regardless, your blog ROCKS!

It's always educational and professional. Something that obviously takes time on your part. And, makes you an agent I would want to represent me.

Signed,Anonymous, But Not Without a Voice.

Anonymous said, on 3/30/2009 4:18:00 PM

"Anyone who cannot take public ridicule of his or her writing best not seek publication. Period."

A tad bit black and white, don't you think? To take/endure public ridicule on a published work is to be expected. A query letter sent to an agent doesn't (at least in my book) constitute a published work. It is a professional (hopefully) correspondence between a writer and another professional, an agent.

I, for one, am glad that we have available in the nearest bookstore published works by those who couldn't handle public mockery... or couldn't handle it without excessive addictions. The world is better for the works of Emily Dickinson or the myriad of other geniuses who lived peculiar lives.

There is a business here; no one is arguing that, but there is artistry here as well. And public mockery of a query is unnecessary bloodletting in an already difficult process.

I stand by my comment. If you are unable to accept public commentary, critique, ridicule, or mockery, you had best not seek publication. There is no gray area here. If your work is published, it will be commented upon, often in the harshest tones. You will probably not have the luxury of already being dead before the snarking begins.

There is no reason to query an agent if you are not seeking publication. If commentary on one or two lines in your anonymous, unidentifiable query is too much for you, then you are not ready to have your work made available to the public's slings and arrows.

I am not saying this to be nasty. I am pointing out a fact. Publishing is not healthy for those who are stressed by criticism.

Yes, in some classes, you are ripped apart for your work (As you should). But usually you sign up for those classes because you want the work ripped apart and go in knowing that your work is going to be ripped apart and comments for improvement.

My problem with Queryfail is that most of the authors who sent in the queries didn't know they were going to be used as fodder for this. They were ripped apart by agents, editors, and fellow writers (Really though, isn't writing hard enough? Do we really have to rip each other up for stupidity too?).

Some of the agents even used names, pen names and details...without permission. I think this makes queryfail a lot less "educational" then something like Queryshark (Again, Awesome!). Doing something like that, is just unprofessional. It's not about being nice, there's a level of professionalism you expect out of agents, editors, and writers. (And that's not to say a lot of writers need to learn professionalism as well. If you can't follow guidelines, you really do deserve to be rejected. Though publicly blasted, I think not. I think a rejection should be enough, or an automatic delete.)

I do agree that if you can't take critism, you probably shouldn't want to be a published author. But should you have to take public ridicule by the same people your looking to "hire" to be in your corner when you do publish? I don't vent my frustrations in a public forum, because I know that eventually it may come back to bite me.

Yes, maybe some of the query letters deserved it, but it's not just those authors the agents/editors are advertising how they handle things to.

If your going to be a professional in any field, you need to keep in mind that anything you say or do in public forum can bite you in the butt. Look at Jessica and Nathan. They didn't participate and their blogs are extremely professional. Which is why they probably have so many readers, and people who love their blogs. It's educational. I know I learn more reading their blogs, then reading snarky comments on bad Queries that I've seen a thousand times and know better then to do.

Those who describe QueryFail as "public mockery of queries" are people who did not read or follow queryfail. Because that does represent more than a few of the hundreds of QF posts.

Those who claim that Agent Lindsay had a "hissy fit" on Nathan's blog are again misrepresenting.

The truth is, the writing life is all about criticism. And if you can't handle an anonymous critique, I have to agree with Elissa, you don't belong in the business.

In Journalism writing and editing classes, my stuff was projected in front of the entire class and shredded in front of everyone. In every single fiction and non-fiction class I took, our work was distributed out and we had to sit there quietly while our work was ripped apart. It's more like "decimated" and "destroyed" in grad school.

It's part of the game in writing and no one is immune.

Of course little kids aren't critiqued like that in elementary school, but we're grownups now, and we need to be able to take it to compete in the grownup world. College writing classes prepare you for that appropriately.

Anonymous said, on 3/31/2009 12:12:00 AM

I was a minister for twenty-five years and query fail was child's play compared to the abuse my colleagues got from parishioners. Writing feels pretty safe to me!

It’s probably one of the most dreaded words in publishing. Any time I tell any author she has to submit or write a synopsis, I invariably get a loud groan. It’s hard, it’s frustrating, and I know of very few authors who like writing them.

But what makes a good synopsis and how much do they really matter?

A synopsis can matter not at all and it can matter greatly depending on the editor and on the situation. To make things easier on you, I think you should always assume that a synopsis matters a great deal. If you’re submitting a full manuscript with a synopsis, the synopsis probably won’t matter as much (most of us would prefer just to read the manuscript). However, if you have reached the stage in your career where you are selling on proposal and no longer need to write a full manuscript before sending to editors, a synopsis is crucial. In this case, it’s the only thing an editor has to judge the rest of your book by. The synopsis is used as a guide to see if the plot and characterization follows through as strongly as it did in your chapters.

If you are submitting a proposal first (as many agents will ask you to do) you better have a strong synopsis. In that case, we often use the synopsis as a guide to see if we should be requesting the rest of the manuscript or not. We might love the chapters, but I’ve read some really screwy synopses (in which the plot took a dramatic turn in the wrong direction) that have pushed me to reject the book rather than ask for more.

How long should a synopsis be?

Well, for the most part that depends on the requirements of the house, the line, or the agent or editor. For me, my answer is to always tell you to send whatever you have. However, that being said, I prefer something shorter and more succinct (if you have it). I think the perfect length of a synopsis is 3 to 5 pages. That should be enough for you to give all of the important details of the story. To reiterate here, it doesn’t matter how long your synopsis is as long as it is strong and tells the story: 10 pages is fine too.

What do agents/editors look for in a synopsis?

And this is what you’re really here to read. Because believe it or not, a synopsis can make or break your ability to get a book deal. Numerous times I’ve received rejection letters from editors who were basing their feedback on the synopsis, because quite simply what they were commenting on wasn’t even in the chapters we submitted. When trying to sell on proposal (and yes, it is possible to sell fiction on proposal), an editor is going to place a great deal of emphasis on the synopsis. It’s the only way for her to figure out how the book plays out.

So how can you be sure your synopsis sings?

The writing. Like your book, your chapters, and your query, your synopsis needs to be well-written and strong. A weak, hastily written synopsis is going to give the editor the impression that you’re a weak writer who doesn’t or won’t take the time necessary to really make sure that what you’re turning in is the best it can be.

The voice. It’s not as easy to make your voice come through in a synopsis, but it should still be evident, at least to a small degree. The synopsis should not be a dull, dry play-by-play (or even chapter breakdown) of your book. It should never say something like, “Chapter three begins with . . .” Instead it should be your retelling of the story, in your voice. It should be a short narrative of your story.

Showing, not telling. Like the writing in your manuscript, the synopsis should show the highlights of what is important to your book, what scenes move the story forward and show how the characters grow. We don’t need to know about every single secondary character and we don’t need to be told what happens every step of the way. We do however need to know how the core of the story plays out, the heart of the story.

Conflict. This is a bit of a repeat of what I said above, but sometimes people hear things different, so let me reiterate, the synopsis should show the conflicts and challenges faced by your characters and in your plot. What is keeping your characters apart or bringing them together? What challenges does your sleuth face or your warrior? How is the crime solved, what are the red herrings?

Genre. If you are writing a paranormal romance, for example, make sure that your synopsis has an equal balance of showing how both the paranormal and the romance come into play. Editors are buying your book partly based on hook, which is the paranormal element, but also want to make sure that the romance is strong enough to place this on the the romance list. If you’re writing a mystery or suspense, you want to show how the characters solve the crime, and in suspense, you want to show the suspense. If you’re writing fantasy you want to show the world building, but you also want to make sure the plot is equally strong.

I have to admit, I hate a synopsis as much as you do, but they are a necessary evil of the business, especially when you reach the point in your career where you get to sell on proposal, and because many of my clients are now at that stage I’m working more and more with them on creating a synopsis that’s as strong as the chapters they’ve written.

As with everything else you’re doing besides writing the book, make sure you take the time to write a strong synopsis, but throw all the rules out the window. Write a synopsis that sounds like you and that works with your book and for your story. That’s the synopsis we want to see.

It seems like most agents either want a 'brief' synopsis or a 'detailed' one. To that end I have a one page single-spaced and a 5 page, single-spaced. I hope that is enough.

green ray said, on 2/9/2009 7:42:00 AM

I got practice reading synopses at the opera, quickly, before the lights went down (or in the case of the Met, before the lights went "up"). But the problem with them is that they never contain the music, the music of the opera, or the music of the book. You might read a synopsis of Wagner's Ring, but you'll never get the glorious music with it. So I wish so much importance weren't placed on these dreadful things. Can you imagine Wagner's Ring operas being judged on the synopsis alone? They would certainly be rejected!

As a plotter, I don't find the synoposis process too overwhelming really. They're more of an annoyance or the necessary evil as it were. I have my whole story laid out before me before I actually begin to write, which makes them a fairly straight forward thing to do. I truly feel sorry though for the 'pantsers' who have little more than characters, main conflict, beginning and ending before they start writing. If you are writing off proposal, this would be a nightmare for them. How do you write a synopsis when you aren't even sure exactly how the story is going to go? For some writers, I know that plotting it all out saps some of the creative spark for writing the story. Part of the joy of writing this way is discovering what happens as you go. I imagine a root canal would be a more enjoyable process for these writers.

Jessica, what do you say to your writers who write this way? I'm sure you have a couple of them at least.

Jimnduncan: I'm a panster, but I've also learned that a synopsis helps me get into touch with my characters, and they're the source of my stories. One trick, coming from a background writing radio commercials, is to tell an imaginary someone what your story is about, with a tape recorder running. I know I can often verbalize a concept before I can write it, and the recording helps capture the voice and tone.

Another thing to remember is that you're not required to write exactly the story that's in your synopsis. Once that synopsis gets the contract, I rarely end up with the same book I proposed. I have yet to have my editor reject a manuscript or even ask for a revision on the final work, though I have had more than one back blurb on a book that has nothing to do with the actual story inside. (I probably drive my editor nuts, but it hasn't stopped her from asking for more stories from me) The main thing is getting that contract with a good proposal/synopsis. The fact the story deviates from the original, as long as it's a good story, is not as big an issue as getting a foot in the door.

Thanks Jessica, this is VERY useful. I hate writing synopses, too, but I discovered something when I tried to write one for a novel I'd recently completed: there was something wrong that I hadn't seen before. The same became clear even as I wrote the query. I'm now rewriting (to call it a revision would be misleading b/c I'm changing the setting, the POV character and the mystery "puzzle" (while keeping many of the secondary characters, including the victim). I haven't really gotten a strong start yet, but I keep in mind as I go how I'd describe the book in a query letter and synopsis, and I believe it's helping me.

Thank you for this post. As it happens I am just about to write a synopsis. This post couldn't have come at a better time for me. I feel inspired to write a killer synopsis now. The comments were very helpful too. I particularly like Kate's advice to record how you would tell your book's plot to a friend. I think I'm going to use that. Anyway, cheers everyone.

Anonymous said, on 2/9/2009 10:08:00 AM

to j duncan:Unless I misunderstand you, I think you're referring to the sort of synopsis or outline someone would use before they write a novel, and Jessica is referring to one you'd write after the novel's completed.As for your knowing your plot before you start writing, I truly envy you. I've never been able to have much of my story in mind before I begin (I write mysteries, cozies, so there's a built-in aid, that the basic story will be about my sleuth solving a murder. I'll know who was murdered and why, and I always make sure I know how my amateur sleuth will be able to solve the murder, but apart from that, I'm usually coming up with things as I go.I would be interested in Jessica's comments re the two approaches, too.

Anonymous said, on 2/9/2009 10:35:00 AM

So surprise endings are no good? I have always liked books that didn't necessarily end up where I thought they were going. If that happens how do you show it coming in a short little blurb?

As another fan of the five-page synopsis, and as a writer committed to the preservation of Voice, I totally agree. I've already shared my method for synopsis-writing, but I'd be very interested to hear what works for other people.

I'm more of a pantser, but with my last proposal, I found that writing the synopsis helped me identify the inner conflicts of my main characters. Knowing those helped me strengthen the chapters for the proposal.

Would you say outlines are going out of fashion? When I prepare a manuscript for submission, I generally set my logline and one paragraph hook first, then do the outline, hone that, and then pull the synopsis from the outline. Basically, that way, whatever someone requests can go out in the return mail.

But I've noticed that more people want a synopsis rather than an outline over the past year or so.

I used to find the synopsis writing process painful, mostly because I tend to go on and on and end up with 50 pages, but then I came up with a system that works well for me. I'll share it here, in case it can help others.

1. Start with a bullet list of the things that happen in the novel that are important to the plot and set up. Write this list tersely and in your own language—it's for you, no one else.2. Go through the list and get rid of whatever is not essential. Do this twice, because getting rid of one nonessential item may allow you to get rid of others. Despite the fact that you set out to only include essential items, if you’re at all like me, you will find much to trim here.3. When you have this list down to as few items as possible, use the list as a guide to write the synopsis, using one sentence per line if you can. 4. Go through the completed synopsis several times and once again trim all the unnecessary fat you managed to inject into it.

By the end of this process, you should have a very short and well written synopsis.

I just want to thank Jessica and everyone else who comment here. So far I am unpublished and attempting to break out with my work. Your comments have been enlightening. The thing that intrigues me the most is what it takes to stand out from the rest. Every aspect of the process requires dilligence. Merely writing a great (at least I hope great) manuscript is not the end of the job. It's actually just the beginning. Thanks for the lessions.

I had so many different versions of my synopsis, it wasn't even funny. And yes, I detest them. I hope I never have to write another one! Oh! wouldn't that be grand - if my synopsis-writing days are over....

I was told by the beautiful Alexandra Sokoloff that I was by far the worst synopses writer she'd ever met *laughing* - she said, "how can you write such beautiful prose, and your synopsis is so ... so ... ugh-ly..." *laugh* true, sadly true.

Anonymous said, on 2/11/2009 11:34:00 AM

Thanks for breaching this subject. Your comments on selling on a proposal raises another question for me. It seems that 3 or more book deals are not uncommon. My question is, in your experience, do your clients have all three books written in order to get these deals, or can you sell one completed manuscript and the other two just on proposal?

Once you’ve mastered the query letter it’s time to move on to the book proposal. For fiction writers a proposal if fairly easy compared to what nonfiction writers have to do. And keep in mind, if you are writing narrative nonfiction, like a memoir, you should think of your work as fiction. In other words, editors and agents will expect the work to be completed before you even start to query.

Because fiction writers have the book written, polished, and edited before they even start to query, putting the proposal together is really about collecting materials, but since you can never have too much information, I thought you too would like to know what goes into your proposal (sometimes called a partial).

Query Letter. Yes, you’ve already submitted the query, but don’t forget to do it again. Every bit of material you submit to agents and editors should include a reminder of what they are getting. So in the letter you are sending with the proposal mention that you’ve received a request, that this is requested material, include the blurb that first grabbed the agent’s interest and include everything else in the query that grabbed the agent’s interest.

Chapters. Unless you are told otherwise, include the first three chapters (and yes, a prologue is a chapter), but no more than 50 pages of your book. Yes, make sure the chapters are full chapters, make sure they are the first chapters, and yes, if the chapter ends at page 51 send 51 pages. If chapter three ends at page 80 then you only send two chapters. Just use good judgment. Agents really like authors with good judgment.

A Synopsis. I’m not picky. Whatever you have on hand works for me, but do make sure your synopsis is complete and strong. In other words, the synopsis should tell the ending, it should include all key plot points, and it should read in the tone of your book. In other words, if you’re writing suspense, I should get a sense of suspense from your synopsis. If you’re writing erotic romance, I should get a sense of the sex.

Other tidbits to consider:

Page numbers. Everything should be numbered.

Order. Place the synopsis at the end of the package. Do you really want people to read this first or do you want to wow them with your chapters first.

Have others proofread your synopsis to make sure it makes sense.

I will try to post more about the synopsis later, but this is it. When requesting a proposal, this is all we ask for.

Jessica

14 Comments on What Is a Book Proposal for Fiction Writers, last added: 1/7/2009

I'm not sure which blog I love more... Bookends, which seems to be reading my mind, providing the exact information I need right now. Or Cute Overload, which regularly posts pictures of adorable baby otters. I need those, too. Don't make me choose!

As far as a memoir having the same guidelines as a fiction proposal; does it differ in any major way that the writer should take into consideration?

Just a thanks for running the query blogpost. I put mine on and it made me realise when reading others that you had critiqued that mine needed revising. After scrapping a completely written romance novel, I have the first two of a series of crime novels written and have looked over both blurbs now. I realise that the genre wasn't coming through at all.

Unfortunately for me, living in England means that most of my queries have to be done by snail mail as not many agents accept email submissions...yet. I live in hope! (the first book in the series is out with an agent who has requested the full at the moment)

Great info! It was especially heartening to hear that the synopsis should be placed after the chapters. Though I plan to make my synopsis as strong as possible, this certainly takes a bit of the weight off.

Mel - I'm in England too! It's going to be so frustrating subbing and having to wait months when other agents across the pond take days/hours via email....sigh.

Jessica - wow! Thank you heaps for this post. The word synopsis has me running for cover. I don't do short! Your key points for what's needed in one has helped a lot. I'll still get people to help review it, but I have a bit more confidence about what I'm supposed to include in one. Thank you!

Anyway, thank you for further insight into the mind of a literary agent. I've got two novels I'm trying to get published, so any info is good info. Though it does seem like everyone has their own list of what they want.

Oh.... and just a quick note... the if should be an is... up at the top there... sheesh!

I've been wondering about this one. My first three chapters are short; all my chapters are short. So, a three-chapter partial will be about twenty pages. Should I send a full fifty pages anyway, or just the first three chapters?

I'm trying to put together a proposal for a non-fiction idea. This is a first for me. I've only been at it for half an hour here, and forty-five minutes there in between painting the store floor and moving my camp office to the house (Yes, I'm still moving it . . . there's a lot of paperwork!) Still, I thought it'd be easier to get my vision on paper, for some reason.

This is an idea I've had for over a year . . . it's been rolled and kneaded again and again. I've let it rise, only to punch it back down. I've polled some teachers, and they all agree it's needed. One even told me it'd be a hit with homeschooling parents.

It's time to send it out.

If only I could get it to sound as good on paper as it does in my head!

I’m always asked if I actually read for pleasure given that my job entails doing a whole heck of a lot of reading, and I’m actually surprised that others are surprised when I say yes. However, one of the things I’m not sure I’ve ever explained to anyone is I read differently for each thing I read. For example . . .

Query Letters

To clarify, these are the one-page equeries that I receive each day (by the way, we’re now up to about 25 to 30 a day in my inbox alone). When I read queries I often skim through the introductory material, title, and even genre, because I’m looking for the meat of the query. I want to know what the book is about and I want to be excited about it. In other words, I’m reading through the query to be stopped. I want to get to the point where I think, “Wait a minute. I need to read that again.” When I get to that point it’s very likely that unless there are any real bumps in the road (a word count of 7,000, for example) I will be requesting more material. Queries take a lot longer to read than one would think, and even if I can read one query every two minutes, I certainly can’t read 50 queries in a row. Which is why I now have nearly 200 queries sitting in my query folder.

Proposals

This is almost always material I’ve requested from a query letter. Typically a proposal should include the first three chapters of your book and a synopsis. Now here’s the big one . . . never do I read the synopsis first, and I always wonder why people put the synopsis on the top of the chapters since the chapters are what you really want me to read, but that’s a post for another time. When reading proposals the first thing I do is read the attached letter (attached because my assistant probably clipped the entire packet together). Proposals that either don’t include letters or don’t include letters that give me any information about the book (usually the same information that was in the query is best) usually get put back down to be read at a later date. When I finally have time to sit and read proposals I want to pick up proposals that I know I’ll be excited to read. So I go through and read all the letters first. Which proposals do I remember requesting and which grab me just as much the second time around as they did the first? Those are the proposals that are likely to go home with me first. From that point I flip through until I get to the first chapter and then I sit down to read. Often when reading proposals I’m distracted. I’m reading at home, at night, and dinner is on, or the TV is on, or there is just chaos. A good three chapters is going to make that chaos disappear. Like most readers I don’t have the opportunity for a peaceful few hours to sit quietly and read. Instead I’m counting on the book to take me to that peaceful place. Okay, full disclosure time: When reading proposals I’m looking for that first reason to reject. I get 25 queries a day and probably 25 or so proposal packets a week. I can’t possibly take on that many new clients, and in my years of experience I know that there are not going to be that many winners in there. So I’m skeptical (as are all agents and editors), but I want to be wowed. Because there’s nothing more exciting than finding something amazing when you least expect it.

Requested Manuscripts

I don’t request many full manuscripts, so when I do I usually remember it and watch for it. However, the true test of the full manuscript for me is whether or not it holds up. I’ve already read the first three chapters, so when the full crosses my desk, do I have to read those first three chapters again or do I remember them so clearly that all I need to do is skim through anxiously awaiting the material I haven’t yet read? If I have to read them again to remind myself about the book and if I feel weighted down by the time I get to chapter five, I can easily reject the book. If, however, chapter four grabs me as well as chapter three and the next thing I know dinner is burning and infomercials are playing, I know I have a winner. Requested manuscripts are something that often hang over my head. I’ve got three client manuscripts right now I need to read (and I’m excited about reading) as well as numerous proposals and other things, so while I’m always excited to find a new client, the thought of finding time to read another 400 pages is intimidating. So again, I’m looking for a reason to reject and get this task off my desk.

Client Manuscript for Revisions

When reading client material, whether a full or partial, for revisions I need to be in a completely different mind-set. I need to be able to focus, which means I need to have my desk as cleared off as possible with no other projects hanging over my head. The phone can’t be ringing and I can’t be checking email. The best thing for me to do when reading for revisions is sequester myself (wouldn’t that be nice). When reading for revisions I always have pen in hand and a notebook at my side and I make notes. Notes to myself and notes I will share with the author. I am reading with an incredibly critical eye. Not skeptical, but critical. I need to concentrate and follow the story carefully and I need to be willing to be judgmental. To tell my client what is or isn’t working and to give suggestions. I need to have my editor’s hat on, which means a creative hat as well as critical. Reading for revisions is actually very tiring for me. It’s not like sitting down to read queries or to simply read an already published book. Instead it involves carefully thinking about every word and phrase.

Reading for Pleasure

Which, let’s face it, is the best reading of all. There is nothing better for me than being able to just sit down and read a book. I’m not going to be asked for my opinion and I’m not going to be asked to judge the book. All I need to do is lose myself in the story and read. I can put it down and never pick it up again if I don’t want to or I can pick it up weeks later when I have the time.

Just to be clear, you say a proposal should include a synopsis and the first three chapters. Some agents and editors also ask for a market analysis and comparative works, plus information about the author (including their platform). What is your take on this?As always, thanks for an informative post.

I've said it here and other places and I'll say it again. I don't think I'd like being a literary agent.

It's always amazing to me how interested I can be in some of the materials I have to read (and write) as a freelance writer, but the idea of reading that many queries or proposals just makes me quiver.

You know, Jessica, in two years of following agent and editor blog, a lot of things get posted over and over again. But I can honestly say that this post is totally unlike any that I've come across so far! And it's good, too. It really explains why some things get rejected, which (to me) helps lessen the disappointment.

Thanks!

Anonymous said, on 10/3/2008 8:42:00 AM

Can I offer you an IV drip of highly caffinated coffee? And maybe a large bottle of aspirin, too?

This is one of the smartest posts on the blog - and I enjoy them all. It reveals more about you as an agent than anything I've read...and perhaps it's insightful regarding other agents as well. It's good to get a peek over the fence now and again. It makes it clearer for us, the writers, to give you what you need, and want.

Can you lose yourself in a novel when reading for enjoyment, or does your mind wander when your critical eye hits a bump?

As my knowledge of the craft of writing grows I find I'm more critical, unless the story is superb. And that's annoying because I'm making little mental comments that take me momentarily out of the story. The superb ones I fly through and they stay with me for years, I find I don't analyze them until the end.

I wonder one thing about agents' pleasure reading, though: How often (if ever) do you find yourself thinking like an agent as you read whatever it is? For instance, Oh, I wish this were my client, I know just how I'd market it or First 25 pages, eh, not so much, thanks, now on to the next book...!

Anonymous said, on 10/3/2008 2:14:00 PM

Excellent post as usual. One thing that went through my mind as I read this is that you (or your group) would benefit from a first reader of the sort publishers used to have before agents assumed the job. I can understand the reason for not using one, but a reader who could throw out all the worst dreck would save you a lot of valuable time.

Anonymous said, on 10/3/2008 2:36:00 PM

Great post. I think a lot of writers (myself included) get really hung up on query writing but forget the true importance of having an outstanding proposal ready. If the agent asks for the first three chapters, you really need to leave them wanting more after chapter 3!

I'm amazed by your talent. Your reading balancing act sounds like my life with all the things I do on a daily basis.

Thanks for sharing such great insight, not only is it valuable information but it helps us get to know you a bit more as well. And I'm glad you said the blunt truth about looking for reasons to reject. It helps me get my feet back on solid ground instead of floating up in Neverland.

Some time ago, I used to think it would be fun to read slush for a day or two. I changed my mind after realizing what this is actually like (i.e. slush pile quality), but Jessica's post was very enlightening about the pressure of getting through it all as well. 25 to 30 queries in the inbox each day, on top of all the other reading? I think I'll stick to being a writer. :)

I kept this in mind when I was revising the first three chapters. Barbara Rogan also hammered this home in her Next Level workshop. Since she is a retired agent and editor, I trusted her judgment when she kept pushing me to make every sentence count. Sometimes I felt like banging my head on the desk, but she was right about all of the complaints.

Of course, her, "Just make the first chapter sing," comment was a trap. After that I was told to go on and make the next chapter sing.

For many readers, a book is innocent until proven guilty. I look at submitting as guilty until proven innocent.

We just have to go that extra mile and not give agents a reason to say no.

Jessica, this is one of those posts that will most likely be stickied everywhere. Thanks for sharing this.

I still struggle with openings. I'm a "slow and steady wins the race" kind of writer which has garnered me impressive rejections. I've learned to open a book in better places.I hadn't thought about how chapter four might be hugely important. After all, it's the NEXT part of the book you go to when you receive the full.

I know I’ve vented about this before, but it’s happened again so I get to vent again. Lucky you!

I realize I’m behind on proposals, but I’m not that behind. So I had a nonfiction proposal that was a few weeks old. I liked the idea a lot, but was unsure whether or not it was the right direction to go in, so I brought the proposal up in our weekly meeting to discuss it with others here. We discussed the proposal as it was and everyone had varying opinions. I really liked it though.

In the end I decided to pass, but sent the author some of my detailed thoughts on why I was passing. I also offered to take a look again or at other work. The response . . . she had already signed with another agent and was sorry she didn’t tell me.

Aaaaah! This lack of professionalism kills me every single time. Are you kidding me?! If you’ve sent a query that’s one thing, but a proposal? Why wouldn’t you at least have the courtesy to let me know. I know, I know. I rejected it so why do I care? I care because of all of the time I wasted. It took up about 10 to 15 minutes of time at our meeting. I know Jacky went and did some research on the book on her own after the meeting and I did a great deal on my own both before and after the meeting. Not to mention the time spent reading, emailing my detailed letter, and simply thinking about. All of that time could have been spent reading your proposals—the other proposals that I’m really behind on.

The funny thing about this is now if this person does come back to me at some point I’m really going to have to think twice. After all, the professionalism just isn’t there.

I have to confess, I did this. After I signed with my agent I notified all agents who had my materials except those I'd just queried within the last few days (it was just a query, after all).

Unfortunately, I forgot that one of those was a query + 1st three.

So when I got the request for the full a couple of months later...I felt AWFUL. Just awful. I'd wasted this lovely lady's time, I'd made myself look bad, all because I'd simply written her on my list as "query" without noting it was a query plus materials.

I replied with much apology, but she never responded. I still feel bad about it, and swear if I ever meet her I'll buy her a drink or something to make up for it.

I guess it would be different with nonfiction, or if you'd requested the materials. But please, give her a tiny break. Oversights like the one I made are awful and there's really no excuse for them (and you have every right to be upset, I don't mean at all to imply you don't), but maybe she feels as bad as I did. I literally felt sick. I still do, in fact.

Anonymous said, on 7/22/2008 7:48:00 AM

Perhaps a way to avoid an author's "unprofessionalism" agents could notify authors when their works are under consideration.

It would be completely unprofessional for all of us to "assume" our works are under consideration every time we submit something to agents. Afterall, reading blogs proves that this just isn't the case.

We authors realize that agents are buried under piles of queries, partials, proposals and manuscripts. And we also realize that there's a HUGE time lag between when we send stuff out and when we get a response (no thanks, nice, but not what I'm looking for, etc.).

If agents all banded together and agreed to a standard "let's notify authors when we are considering their work," they wouldn't waste their time.

It would also give the author a chance to then say, "hey, I've already signed, am under considerations elsewhere" or even "I'll hold off other agents until I hear back from you."

Communication is a two way street. And with more and more being done electronically, how difficult would it be to send a quick email to an author?

Anonymous said, on 7/22/2008 7:51:00 AM

To be sure, you have a right to be upset, but there's a lot of this type of frustration on the writer's end too.

You kill yourself to complete and send requested revisions to a potential agent and she NEVER responds.

You think your book is on submissions only to find that it has been sitting on your agent's desk for two months while she "decides" where to send it next.

Recently, I waited 11 MONTHS while an editor read a ms, then took it to acquistions, and THEN, after she got back from taking a vacation and going to two writer's conferences finally decided she didn't want it after all. By then I was glad she passed, what a nightmare it would have been to work with her.

Same with your potential client -- she may just have simply overlooked contacting you, on the other hand, if that's her way of working you wouldn't have been happy with her anyway.

Anonymous said, on 7/22/2008 8:05:00 AM

I recently heard an agent speak at a con, and heard a similar story. Unfortunately, this has become the norm more than the exception. Writers feel so put upon by the wait, that they lose patience with the process. They don't realize that the numbers of submissions has greatly increased due to the fact that EVERYONE thinks they can write a book. The channels are clogged by these submissions, which must be looked at. And since electronic submissions have been accepted by some agents, it's really gotten out of hand. When writers had to prepare a paper submission and take it to the post office, and pay for it, they were a bit more circumspect in how many they threw out there. Not so with electronics. They blast every agent on every list, including all agents in one agency. After I heard this, I actually felt sorry for agents trying to plow through the piles of work that never should have been sent in the first place.

I can't blame you at all for being upset about that, Jessica. Even on a query, if you send out a number of letters and end up receiving an offer, it only takes a few stamps or emails to notify the other agents that you have accepted someone else's offer. It's only a form letter and, after all, wouldn't it nice to finally send a form letter TO an agent, rather than just recieving them? :)

Shaun

Anonymous said, on 7/22/2008 8:41:00 AM

I have to confess I had never really thought about this situation. I had queried several agent at the beginning of June. I had a requested full from one right away, and within a week an offer of representaion. I did tell the lovely agent had queried several others at the same time, and the very next day got a request for a partial from my dream agent. I emailed this agent and explained I had an offer that I was considering and she kindly asked for the full, and asked for a time frame to work with so that I could make my decision. It was all very professional and in the end I signed with the second offer. The first agent while dissapointed, understood and things were left very friendly....the door is left open so to speak.As for the other agents I queried....two were R's and the others I haven't heard a word. Should I consider sending them a note? NO....If and when I hear from them, I'll be more than happy to let them know I've already signed....early bird gets the worm so to speak!

Anonymous said, on 7/22/2008 8:44:00 AM

I've already commented, but I do have to agree with Anon 8:48.

As a writer you have zero way of knowing if your work is being considered at all, unless soemone tells you.

I've had editors say my ms was still "under consideration," meaning they just hadn't gotten around to reading it yet. If the ms was something you took to an agency meeting, perhaps a heads up for the author would be the way to go in the future. After all, if he's/she's pestering you for an update on a ms that may not have even been plucked up from a mail pile yet, that's considered unprofessional, too.

Anonymous said, on 7/22/2008 8:46:00 AM

It sounds as though the author would have been better served (and avoided being the topic of your blog entry) by just keeping her mouth shut about signing with another agent. You'd never have known. Why not simply appreciate her honesty and view it as a reminder to always maintain contact with those authors whose work your reviewing?

Anonymous said, on 7/22/2008 8:49:00 AM

I'm with Anon 8:48 and 8:51. The lack of response from agents regarding queries makes you assume after a certain point (two months?) that they are not interested.

I queried Bookends twice for two separate projects last year, the second of which ultimately did find representation. Jacky took five months to reply and the second time you took four. I did not receive an offer on the first and the second came after your rejection, so I'm not guilty of not notifying you. But honestly, if at three months I did have an offer, it wouldn't even occur to me to contact agents who had received my query three months ago.

Multiply your frustration fifty-fold and you'll begin to understand the frustration on the author's side. And it's even worse in this situation. You have a wonderful blog. You're obviously smart and connected and altogether a great agent. People WANT you. So you get bombarded and behind and we get frustrated at the slow response. Perhaps you should consider more help with queries. Sorry to be blunt but I admire you very much.

I do understand all the variables but please, at the very least if you're remotely interested, let us know! My agent, by the way, at a well respected NY firm, responded to my query in less than a week and to my full within three weeks. He recognized interest and acted on that interest quickly.

Since I'm one of those mannerly types, I understand your being upset. Of course, your readers' comments spotlight how powerless writers usually feel in the agent-acquisition process. Still, I can't help but feel that if one wants to be a pro writer then one should learn what that means (some people don't have a clue) and always follow through.

Unfortunately, this is the golden age of rudeness, so, in the end, I cannot say I'm truly surprised.

My sympathies to you and everyone else that has had this happen to you, Jessica. Breakdowns in communication, common courtesy and respect are always difficult to deal with - regardless of which side of the table you are sitting on.

This is why I don't simultaneous query/propose. I know it increases my chances and so on, but I want to make sure I'm on top of what's going on.I'm not organized like some. I know an author who has all her queries, requests and rejections on a spreadsheet. I'm just not that good.So, I send one query at a time. Of course, I don't have an agent yet sooooo...LOL.

Hmm. Unless I'm really reading this notification idea thing wrong, I guess I'm the odd one out. To have an agent send notification of the status of your submission seems like a real waste of the agent's time. Sure it, takes what, 10secs to send an email to let the author know...it can also take 10secs for an agent to look a query and know if it's right for her or not.

If you submit something...it's kind of an automatic your under submission sort of thing. I mean, the reason you submitted WAS to be under consideration. The majority of the agents I've researched have a wait time listed. Some are 2 weeks, 2 months, some 6 months. It depends on how busy they are. And they also say, if you haven't heard from us under this time, please follow-up so the mishap can be straightened out.

Don't assume I've never had agents drop out on me and never respond back. I have. Even with revisions requested. It sucks. It does. What happened to Jessica sucks. What happened to December/Stacia sucks as that sounds like a slip of the mind, and goodness knows, we've all that happened. It reall is a crappy place for everyone. All we can do is learn from another's mistake so not to repeat. I believe that was kind of the point of this post. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Anonymous said, on 7/22/2008 10:19:00 AM

I agree with Anon 9:57. I'd love to see more about the author/agent relationship after signing.

Anonymous said, on 7/22/2008 10:56:00 AM

If I didn't read your blog and already know you're hard-working, responsible, and well-mannered, I would probably say, "So what? Aspiring authors are treated like that all the time."

Anonymous said, on 7/22/2008 11:02:00 AM

I'm going to post this one anon for obvious reasons, but I do have a question that I'd love an agent's opinion on:

I sent out a number of queries to agents that requested sample chapters and synopsis or multiple pages with the query, so obviously this takes more of their time than a one page query letter. I received a request for a full and the agent wanted an exclusive, which I of course granted.

Now, I've heard writers say they'll never grant exclusives and that they'd even lie and say the ms was under consideration elsewhere when it wasn't... I'm not a good liar and I don't particularly want to be.

I did grant the exclusive but I let the agent know I'd queried elsewhere with sample chapters... so far none of the other agents have gotten back to me either way, but I'm nervous about what to do if they do request more material.

What's the best way to handle that without burning bridges?

(on the whole agents should let you know it's under consideration - I think that's a bit excessive. When I send a query, it's a sales pitch on myself. If someone sent me a sales pitch and got irritated if I didn't contact them to let them know I was thinking about it, I'd be more than annoyed... I do think agents should at least respond to queries. It's one of those things that will make me cross them off the 'to query' list, if they never respond.)

I also would send a short email letting agents who haven't yet responded to my queries know the status if I sign with someone. I think it's only polite, and it never costs you anything to be polite...

To have someone continuing to research and work on your submission when you've accepted representation elsewhere is rude. A total waste of time. But, maybe the person just forgot? It could happen.

I keep a record of where my writing goes, (editor submissions, contests, agencies) the date, to whom, expected time of results. But I'm exeedingly slow with putting my work out there, I usually do one at a time. I'm more of a people person and want to know everything I can about a person/company before I do business that could affect me for years to come.

If you have a partial submission in with an agent, and another one (completely different manuscript)in a contest, then you place in the contest and are asked by the agent judging the contest to submit your work, should you give the first agent a heads up? Or only if it is the same manuscript going to both agencies?

Anonymous said, on 7/22/2008 11:37:00 AM

Sigh, I'm still waiting for Bookends to respond to my query which I sent over 8 weeks ago.

At this point I doubt I will get a response but I did get many requests from other agents so I'm not as distressed as I could be.

Anon 12:37. There's a good chance your query never made it at all. it happens. more often than you think because of SPAM filters. From BookEnds submissions page:

BookEnds agents do reply to all submissions and queries, including e-queries, and hopes to do so in a timely manner. Our response times are traditionally 10 to 12 weeks on requested partials or fulls, 2 to 4 weeks on e-mail queries. If you haven't heard from us after that time has passed, please feel free to drop us an e-mail with the following information: which agent the submission was sent to, the date it was sent, the title, and the author name.

Don't mean to sound harsh, but read the guidelines and save yourself some frustration. My query to BookEnds plopped in the SPAM folder. Another requested submission to a different agency fell into the SPAM folder. It happens.

I've been waiting for two months to hear back from five different agents. :-) It's frustrating, but not as much as what you must have felt.Sorry about it. She could've been unprofessional or you may have just slipped through her cracks.But sorry again!HOpe you find a bestseller to make up for it!

Anonymous said, on 7/22/2008 12:30:00 PM

Keri,

I did read the guidelines and was very aware of that possibility. That's why I followed up with them. Just in case my query was SPAMMED.

Sometimes no matter what you do, you fall through the cracks. It just happens that way.

I've seen some arguments here in favor of this: what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

I disagree. Just because other agents have ignored me (or my query fell through the cracks - whatever), does not mean I should be as rude as them and not let them know once I've been offered representation.

Sure, the person in Jessica's example may have forgotten to notify other agents. I can see how, once you receive the offer, you might be so excited that you forget almost everything else. But that doesn't mean anyone should advocate intentionally being rude. I hope I never have to deal wtih any of you who do.

Shaun

Anonymous said, on 7/22/2008 1:35:00 PM

Waaaaa waaaaa waaaaaaa.

Why should the writers take time to inform agents of developments when it is normal for agents not to even respond? An agent is basically a parasite off other people's work. It is your job to crawl through unsolicited slush and come up with enough sustenance to make a living--all while representing current clients that actually do make money. This is your job,. The "my job sucks thing" is super-old. Get another one if you don't like it and let someone with someone enthusiasm represent my work.

In fact, "stop blogging and get back to work" is what you'd hear if it were my company. Your preaching to the same old wannabe witers' blog contingent is not garnering new clients.

Anonymous said, on 7/22/2008 1:40:00 PM

Shaun 1:40 -- I don't think anyone is advocating being rude -- far from it. When in the process of querying or even after you have an agent, and you're waiting around for editor responses, the ball is entirely in the agent/editor's court.

There are so many people who simply do not respond to queries at all, or do so, literally, five months after the fact, that after a while you figure no response simply means no. I betcha five bucks the person who signed with the other agent simply didn't realize BookEnds was even considering her ms at all.

If agents/editors DON'T shoot you an email and tell you what's going on, you don't know. We're not mind readers.

This is a facinating discussion, BTW. I hope BookEnds doesn't feel bashed by the comments, but writers deal with such frustrations on a daily basis.

And Anon 2:35, if you don't like the blog why do you come here? That says more about you than it does about a post you disagree with. I'm not a wannabe writer, I'm published and agented.

Anonymous said, on 7/22/2008 1:53:00 PM

I've had agents who never respond even after they request a partial.

I don't think it's reasonable for agents to expect status updates from people who are not clients. It's the writers' work, and waht they do with it is entirely up to them.

Also, a lot of writers probably assume that they would only be bothering agents with any contact, since "if you hear nothing that menas no" is the de facto standard. So....why doesn't it work both ways? If you hear nothing from me as a writer....it means no.

Agents are parasites? One wonders about your publishing credentials. Please crawl back under your rock.

Anonymous said, on 7/22/2008 2:58:00 PM

Anonymous 2:35 has a point to this extent: it does seem to be the norm for agents not to respond. A lot of agent websites even specifically say not to follow up on submissions by phone or email.

I'm sorry, Jessica. As much as I respect you and enjoy reading your posts, this is a situation created by the very manner you and other agents do business. If you want it to be different, then something has to change.

Anonymous said, on 7/22/2008 3:10:00 PM

"In the end I decided to pass, but sent the author some of my detailed thoughts on why I was passing. I also offered to take a look again or at other work. The response . . . she had already signed with another agent and was "sorry she didn’t tell me.

Aaaaah! This lack of professionalism kills me every single time. Are you kidding me?!"

Now wait a minute here...So while this writer is sitting around waiting for you to get back to her with a no (comments or not, it's still a rejection), she was supposed to be updating you with the status of other agents? That sure is better for you, but not for the writer.

First of all, just because you're "offered a deal" doesn't mean that it's iron-clad yet. Offers can be retracted before they're signed. So it doesn't make sense from the writer's position to inform anyone that youre unavailable until you have not just been offered the deal, but sisgned the deal. You may even want to wait a couple months after that just in case you don't get dropped for contractually valid reasons, or the agency that signed you goes out of business or something. You just never know. So why cut off other avenues of representation ever? You write on until the book is published. There is no need to inform anyone of anything except those you are directly doing business with.

In fact, for tis writer he actions worked out beautifully, because not only did she get signed by an agent, but she got professional feedback froma different agent who was too slow, or did not otherwise realize the market value potential of the work, that she can now discuss with her agent. So no, this writer is not unprofessional, she's demonstrating business savvy in a competitive sphere. It's you and your words against the world. Those who are not with you are to be cast away swiftly, like a non-edible fish back into the stream for someone else to waste their time with.

Anonymous said, on 7/22/2008 3:21:00 PM

Thank you so much for giving us wannabe authors a chance to consider your frustrations. I apologize for not sending a more personal response and truly wish I was able to give each post I read more feedback.

As I’m sure you know beating one's head against the wall is a difficult business and because of my already busy schedule I need to be very particular about what blogs I read. Ultimately, I just didn’t feel strongly enough about your post to be even minimally sympathetic at this time.

I wish you the best of luck and the greatest success.

Anonymous said, on 7/22/2008 3:28:00 PM

LOL anon 4:21 that is too funny.

I basically agree with the anon 4:10. In this case, with Bookends on the fence about the project, letting them know the project was also being courted by other agencies would only increase the likelihood of a "no" from Bookends. So I agree it's in the writer's interest to say nothing re: status with other agencies.

In general it seems like the non-fiction writers are more business savvy like the one write aabout in this post, while the novelists suck up more to the agents, probably because their odds of publication are significantly longer.

I enjoy the blog, but that doesn't mean that I always agree with what the agents here say, or the way they do things.

Anonymous said, on 7/22/2008 3:30:00 PM

I agree with Anon 2:40.

We writers are not psychic. Once my pitch is out there with agents the ball is in their court and I have no idea at all what's going on with it--until you tell me.

So I agree with the idea of letting an author know if his or her work is up for serious consideration--as in you're really close. Do it asap for god's sakes, don't wait. What's wrong with that? Why complain about something that agents are known for doing to writers all the time? We writers are tired. We're tired of researching agents, sending out our queries, responding to requests for partials and fulls and then never ever hearing anything again.

Even after status querying on requested fulls, I've heard zero back. In fact, I have five fulls out now, one that's been out with an agent since February of this year. Should I assume something? What should it be? A yes? A no? A maybe someday?

So this author whom you'd spent so much time thinking about, I'm sure, probably thought Bookends was a no because so many agents now say that if you do not hear from us, it's a no.

That said, I'm sorry about your frustration. I do think she should have let you know, but I have a feeling she thought you wouldn't care. So agents, please know that we really, really do need to hear from you or we'll just go "out with someone else." :) And we don't mean to be rude, we're just anxious to get on with our careers.

This was a vent which I clearly admitted in the post. I feel that by sharing advice, pieces of information, and even frustrations I'm giving you a peek into my world. This was not meant in any way to show you that my day is harder then yours. On the contrary, it was to show you that this business can drag you down on all sides, that while you're frustrated with agents who don't respond, who don't get your work, or who just seem like jerks, I see the same from authors.

The truth though, from my end, is that most authors are wonderful and I like my job, I don't think I've ever said I didn't, but even when working the best job in the world there are things that aren't always great.

I hope that you (december/stacia) aren't beating yourself up. Mistakes happen, things are missed and I imagine the agent you apologized too understands that. You did the right thing and handled it well so feel free to stop worrying about it.

I also apologize on behalf of publishing for those of you who left constructive feedback and gripes. I understand your frustrations and am glad you feel that this is a forum where you can share them. I think the hard thing is that any time an agent requests anything from an author we assume it's under consideration and many times we discuss projects with colleagues. It's part of the business.

As for those who felt the need to "go off" on me. If you'd like me to stop blogging or feel that I'm no longer useful say the word and if there's a consensus I'll stop (no need to tell me to stay, I'm not going anywhere) or maybe you should just stop reading my "useless" blog. This blog is not a waste of precious work time, although it is time consuming, it is a marketing strategy for our business as well as a way for us to do community service to the writing community. My hope is that in the future fewer miscommunications between authors and agents happen because I have helped explain the business.

And lastly, I want to make clear for those of you who might be new to the blog that in some ways this "vent' connects to my regular preaching to authors to make sure all your options are open before accepting an offer of representation. I don't expect to be coddled by authors and I don't think I've ever asked for that, but when you have an offer it's in your own best interest to use it to either make sure that you are finding the best agent for you or make connections/network with other agents. You just never know.

Keep the comments coming I love hearing what you have to say, when it's smart and constructive.

--jessicaI

Anonymous said, on 7/22/2008 3:53:00 PM

It's all about respect. The business is cutthroat enough that people on both sides feel they have to forsake courtesy in order to look out for themselves.

If I had my own lit agency (and I never will, but if I did), I would have a policy of responding to each and every query, partial, or full submission, even if only a full. That way the wrtiers always know where they stand. If you're worried about a response inviting "blowback" from rejected writers who see a personalized reject as an opportunity to start a dialog, then use a non-reply e-mail address for the rejects.

But I agree that any business that operates by not responding at all to its potential clients is shortchanging themselves. It's an inefficient model.

For example, to me, no response does not mean no. Only no means no. So my policy, when faced with no response, is to re-query (some months later) until I get an actual response one way or the other. I know I'm not the only writer that does this. But for the agency it means that they're volume of queries is artifically increased due to their lack of response policy.

NO NO NO don't even think about quitting this blog. You're a much needed voice of sanity in this crazy business.

Anonymous said, on 7/22/2008 3:57:00 PM

Sorry that should have read (lasat post) "...even if only a form [reject]..." not even if only a full.

Anonymous said, on 7/22/2008 4:10:00 PM

Question for you serious writers here and agents:

Just over 7 weeks ago a bigtime NY agent requested the first 3 chapters of my thriller novel. I sent them the same day, but as of now, have not heard a peep from him.

Would it be a bad move to reply to the (almost 2-month old) e-mail he sent me requesting the partial, and inquire about the status?

Anonymous said, on 7/22/2008 4:12:00 PM

I'm not clear if this was an initial query, or requested materials.

When I signed with my agent, I knew that I needed to contact other agents who had partials or fulls. It didn't occur to me to contact agents with queries. (I'm defining "query" as any initial, unsolicited material, even if it includes several chapters, as some agents prefer.) I'd had it drummed into me to not "bother" agents with whom there is no relationship.

Later, my agent suggested that I should let the queried agents know as well, so I tried. I don't know if my messages got through or not. One of those agents did request a partial a week later, so she at least missed my message. (This doesn't surprise me. When my message came, my query was probably still in the slush pile. Finding it to associate it with my message wouldn't be a priority for the intern fielding the message.)

I really think the accusation of "unprofessional" is over the top.

Anonymous said, on 7/22/2008 4:14:00 PM

I'm a lurker who has never commented, but I read your blog a couple of times a week. I was upset by some of the comments posted, which were just plain nasty.

When I signed with an agent, I sent a quick email to the other agents who had requested the proposal. That is basic professional behavior. It's always better to take the high road--no matter how bitter you feel about the whole process.

Anonymous said, on 7/22/2008 4:22:00 PM

You want to be as polite as possible without jeopardizing your chances.

No, please Jessica, don't let a few disgruntled readers stop you from sharing yourself (good and bad) with us. Your honesty and willingness to share is deeply appreciated. Your blog is the ONLY one I visit daily and I find myself frequently revisiting past entries.

You have a right to vent (sure, it can be argued the others have a right to reply), but bottom line is, I suspect there are far many of us polite people who feel that do unto others is a decent way to behave. There are just some things you shouldn't apologize for and being upset about not being told the writer took other representation is one of them.

And I love anon 4:53's response to agents who don't respond to queries. Haven't tried that yet. :D

Anonymous said, on 7/22/2008 4:30:00 PM

Jessica

I posted the Anon 8:48 post this morning. I checked the blog when I got home this evening and was pleasantly surprised to find all these comments.

Pleasantly surprised that they were included and not deleted by the blog owner.

You vented and it appears writers vented. And that's healthy.

Can we all change the world?

I doubt it.

Can we all change how agents and writers, and the "process," works?

I'm not sure.

But it's openness like this, that you have demonstrated, that takes a step in that direction.

A lot of agents need more time to get back to you on partials or fulls than on the original request, especially a very busy agent. I wouldn't send a follow up after 7 weeks. Someone else said three months and that does sound fair and I don't think anyone's going to get annoyed by a polite status check email after three months.

You might want to check the boards on the agent, too. If you google him or her with 'query response' or some variable, you'll find boards like absolute write where authors are discussing their experiences with particular agents... which can sometimes help gage.

Anonymous said, on 7/22/2008 5:05:00 PM

Merry,

Thank you for your advice. I think I will wait for 3 months before following up. I do read that agency's blog, but they are not a heavy interactive blogger like Bookends, they have a blog, but only do a new post every couple weeks or so.

Anonymous said, on 7/22/2008 5:06:00 PM

I now make it a habit to check my spam box after I found an agent's response to a query in there.

I hope your case is merely something that fell through the cracks. In the excitement of getting a yes this author might have just forgotten (or not kept track of her submissions period).

Since we're voicing frustrations, I'd like to send out a growl at the 8 agents who never even bothered to respond my queries (and in a case or two my query plus sample pages), which I find terribly unprofessional.

And also to the agents who have had my requested 50 page samples since February.

It's your exact situation I'm trying to avoid by not sending my query out again, least one of the 4 partial/full subs I have out earn me representation. I don't want to have to send out mass withdrawal letters so I try to limit the number of requests out at a time. but in the mean time I have no clue at all if my work is even under serious consideration, or if it's in a pile that hasn't been touched yet.

"I realize I’m behind on proposals, but I’m not that behind. So I had a nonfiction proposal that was a few weeks old. I liked the idea a lot, but was unsure whether or not it was the right direction to go in, so I brought the proposal up in our weekly meeting to discuss it with others here. We discussed the proposal as it was and everyone had varying opinions. I really liked it though."

"It would be completely unprofessional for all of us to "assume" our works are under consideration every time we submit something to agents. Afterall, reading blogs proves that this just isn't the case."

Lucky you, I'm in a thoroughly pissy mood so let's play.

She said she had a proposal. That means more than an e-query. It means it's being considered.

At the point an agent offers representation, here is what I would do. Now, I haven't read the rest of the posts so I have no idea if someone has said don't ever do this. This is just what me and my common sense/common courtesy would do. Contact the agents who have material. Being a professional writer, or at least playing one on tv, I have a complete list of everything that has been submitted to everyone. I go down that list, which doesn't take that long since I'm not submitting to fifty agents at once. Then I send a polite reminder of who I am and a copy of my query letter and tell them an agent has offered representation. I would like to know if they have any interest as (give the true reason why I thought they would be a good fit for my book) and thought they should be aware of the situation.

If they have no interest, they can return the materials, take it off the shelf and shred it, delete it from their files, whatever. If they are interested, I would like to hear from them so I can make an informed decision.

Have the common courtesy to respect the time and efforts of industry professionals.

Just because you think this is your opportunity to get back at all the agents who didn't pounce on your golden goose, rise above the brief "take that you ignorant knaves," and thank them for considering you.

All right, I'm going to go drink some cocoa with marshmallows now. I'll be back to normal, delicate me in the morning.

I just wanted to let you know you are in the short go, when I get ready to start submitting. Yes, I can feel the elation from here. I'm sure you're exciting.

One of the reasons you did make the cut, is your very helpful, professional and personal blog. (Even more excited aren't you? You should be. When you sell my humorous, romantic, mystery, thriller, epic fantasy fictional novel, you will be the envy of agenthood and it will be due in part to your excellent blog.)

Let me direct your attention to the snipers. Oh, yeah, they're in anonflage, you can't see them. While I can see valid reasons for posting anon, doing so just so you can get some cheap shots off isn't one of them. Since they want to be invisible, I suggest we let them be.

Your blog is one of the dwindling number I allow myself to browse. I do so because of the pertinent, informative posts.

I thank you for taking the time to do this.

Ignore the peanut gallery.

Anonymous said, on 7/22/2008 10:16:00 PM

Pot to kettle. Unless you reply to everything you pass on with a personal rejection this whole post is a crock. To do anything but that shows a lack of professionalism defined by this entry.

Pot to kettle. Unless you reply to everything you pass on with a personal rejection this whole post is a crock. To do anything but that shows a lack of professionalism defined by this entry.

Personal rejection? All the author had to do was send a brief note, didn't even have to be personal, saying the work is off the market.

With the ease of submitting to agents these days, I can understand why they are flooded with hundreds of queries a week. I don't particularly like it, but when some say they don't respond to queries they aren't interested in, I understand.

You seem to be missing the point. A proposal was on the table. How difficult would it be for the author to send a one sentence form email saying the work was gone? Especially considering it probably wasn't on the table with hundreds of agents like the queries are from authors.

Anonymous said, on 7/22/2008 11:08:00 PM

I don't care if the rejection is personal or not. I just want SOME response. Form rejects are fine, with non-replyable addresses. Just as long as I know it was received and considered.

First, I want to say to people who take this -- well -- just wrong, in my opinion: Jessica warned us it was venting. We all vent about work. No matter if we have the best job in the world, there is always SOMETHING that sucks about it every now and again if not repeatedly. She's allowed to vent, just like us. so chill people. :-D

Now, Jule Weathers, hah! I love you! I came to read Jessica's blog for two reasons tonight. 1). to catch up with her insight and advice and 2). to distract myself from horrible thoughts about my 3 yr old daughters visit to the hospital tomorrow. And you, my dear, have topped my cake with sprinkles. I can now safely say I can go to bed with a smile on my face. Thank you!

And I completely agree, while I've never thought of it before, about sending a quick note (Hello, e-mailing shouldn't take that long for us writers who type all day) if an agent has offered representation.

It's almost like when you interview for a job and you send the interviewer a Thank You card for their time. Have you been offered a job? No. (And I have to wonder if people even do this anymore in this "World of Rude" we live in today). But it's common courtesy and professionalism, and heck....seriously writer's, if you've been offered rep. and could have a chance at having another if not more agents try to offer you rep as well because they found out someone else is interested . . . I mean . . . to me that sounds like an ideal situation to be put in.

So, after reading this blog (thanks to you Jess!) I will now have a mental reminder to e-mail those agents in which I submitted, similar to Julie's advice. I like it very much and it doesn't waste any of my time. In fact, it may or may not improve my future as a writer. Woopie to that!

>>Only no means no. So my policy, when faced with no response, is to re-query

Me too :) Anything other than a "no" is a maybe.

Anonymous said, on 7/23/2008 3:59:00 AM

Jessica, I started four or five different comments last night when I saw how the comments were going here but ultimately didn't leave them.

But I really feel the need to apologize on behalf of my fellow writers. Their response to you has been shockingly rude. You blog here every day, giving advice and opinions and tips, and as thanks they call you names and imply you're unprofessional and a terrible person because agents--who aren't even you--aren't falling all over themselves to keep them appraised of every second of their days.

(And before you all start in on me, I have an agent already, and no, it isn't any of the BookEnds ladies.)

You know what, unagented gripers? GET OVER IT. This is the way the business works. Play along or get out. But I'm sick and tired of you turning every comment thread into a whine all about yourselves and your sad, sad situation. It would be great to be able to dicuss something other than responses to queries, just once or twice. I don't think that's too much to ask for, is it? To let the rest of us have a turn? To allow blogging agents to focus on things aside from queries?

I'm sure you do think it's too much, as you don't even seem to want agents to be able to focus on their clients instead of reading queries. Perhaps you'll see this situation different when I explain that the time Jessica spent on that proposal was time when she could have been reading your query? Does that make a difference for you? Now that we've made it all about you again?

This post could have sparked a very interesting discussion. Instead it turned into yet another round of "Listen to the writers whine and yell and complain that the world doesn't revolve around them and the industry doesn't work exactly the way they want it to."

I'm sorry, but I'm just sick of hearing it.

Anonymous said, on 7/23/2008 5:36:00 AM

While there have been a few rude responses, I do think there has been good discussion. Several people have disagreed politely.

The best advice I could give an unpublished writer looking for representation is to not short-change yourself. I get the whole frustration with the system thing, but why are you hurting yourself over it? If you have submitted your manuscript - either a partial or a full - to several agents and you receive an offer, you should use that to your advantage to get the best representation possible. Contact the other agents, let them know about the offer and ask if they are interested in your work. Who knows? You might get multiple offers of representation.

For the poster who was considering a follow-up after 7 weeks, have you checked their website for guidelines? I recently a request for partial from an agent who stated that it would likely be 2 months before I received a response.

On a query (a long while back), I gave a gentle reminder e-mail ("Just checking back to make sure my query made it to you") after 2 months of no response and found out they'd never received the submission. They ended up asking for a partial another 2 months later.

On the original post, I've never had this happen with a novel...but for two short stories I've submitted places.

On the first, an outlet spelled out the fact that they didn't respond to submissions unless they were interested, and that responses would come in 60 days. So, after 60 days, I figured they weren't interested and submitted it elsewhere (where it was accepted). Not even a week later, I received a response from the first outlet, accepting the work (bummed me out, because they paid more than the second. :-P ).

In the second case, the outlet used a web-based submission form, where you could remove a submission from consideration (which I did), and then received a note asking where it had gone, since they wanted to accept it. I had no indication that it was even under consideration at the time, or else I wouldn't have pulled it.

So, don't know if that helps...but this was just a venting post. Feel free to vent anytime.

"I don't care if the rejection is personal or not. I just want SOME response. Form rejects are fine, with non-replyable addresses. Just as long as I know it was received and considered."

Then make sure you don't query agencies who specifically say they don't respond if they aren't interested. Even then you are going to be disappointed because sometimes crap just happens.

I firmly believe the agent who is meant for my work is out there and so should you. If one doesn't respond it's a nudge to keep looking.

If a person lets the query process eat them this badly, the entire writing and publishing process is going to drive them insane.

Anonymous said, on 7/23/2008 8:19:00 AM

Anon 4:49 AM

There really is nothing worse than your holier-than-thou attitude. I'm happy you have an agent and overjoyed it's not one of the Bookends agents so it won't appear your out here solely to stick up for them. Most of the griping wasn't in the least bit vitriolic but your attitude is sure coming off that way.

I am sure you've heard plenty of times about how the opposite is true as well. Everyone can be an unprofessional mug.

When I was accepted by my agent, I only let the ones who were "considering" me as a client know that she wanted me to sign a contract. I gave clear advance notice. And because these other agencies were dragging me along with vague promises, but no hard contracts, I took the bird in the hand. But I don't believe I owed the people whom I had simply qeried any advance notice. So I guess I'm not sure what the difference between a query and a proposal is--I do F, not NF. I am sorry you lost meeting time due to this shlump, though.

Anonymous said, on 7/23/2008 11:06:00 AM

I'm published and agented. When I began my agent search, I already had a number of books out with major publishers, and I found that the degree of professionalism and courtesy from agents varied widely. I queried six agents, all very well regarded and specific to my field.

Agent #1: he never bothered to respond-- ever.

Agent #2: this agent required that submitting authors send copies of all published works with the intital query. So I was out $60 in book and mailing costs right off the bat. She never bothered to respond, either.

Agent #3: she didn't respond, but her colleague heard of this through his client (also my friend)and I understand he was upset at the agent's lack of professionalism. There was some behind-the-scenes discussion, but I never heard directly from the oroginal agent I queried.

Agent #4: responded quickly, initiated a dialogue, then inexplicably was silent for over a month after asking me to describe my unpublished work so she could decide what she wanted to see. A follow-up email elicited more silence. A third, in which I told her that two other agents were seriously interested, and I'd still love to hear from her, finally got a response: she requested that numerous manuscripts be emailed at once, and sent me her rejection virtually instantly.

Agents #5 and #6 were both highly professional and handled the query process beautifully. They responded in a timely manner to the original query, initiated dialogue about further work, requested what they were interested in, let me know they'd received it, and gave me their rough timetable for reading it. Both actually emailed me when they were in the middle of reading my work, just to let me know they were doing so, and how much they liked it. Both arranged calls, both told me they were thinking of offering representation but needed a little more time to give my work due consideration, plus present it at an agency meeting. Both ended up offering representation and it was a tough choice, because both agents were stellar.

The way the different agents handled the query process gave me some very good information about how they'd likely conduct themselves if I were their client. Agents #5 and #6 responded in a timely manner, were honest, and let me know at every stage what was going on in the process. I never had to sit around wondering.

Did I inform agents #1 and #2 when I was offered representation, and signed with my choice? Frankly, it never even occurred to me.

Anonymous said, on 7/23/2008 5:14:00 PM

I will say this: there are more comments on this thread than the blog usually gets. Controversy sells!

"In fact, "stop blogging and get back to work" is what you'd hear if it were my company. Your preaching to the same old wannabe witers' blog contingent is not garnering new clients." Anon 2:35

Umm, Anon 2:35? Jessica's 'preaching' actually made me blow off every other agent I had in mind and query her instead. So, it's quite possible her blog garnered her a brand new, sparkly client.

Jessica, I know you said we don't need to tell you to stay, so I won't, but, I will say 'Thanks'. Your blog is a fantastic marketing tool, and without it, I would be far less confident of my querying/pitching skills. Thank you.

With the economy tanking and all eyes focused on the election, do you believe non-genre, fiction writers might be wise to delay trying to peddle their wares until early next year? I ask because I have read that this is a dreadful time for fiction writers seeking to enter the marketplace for the first time. I’m considering shelving my medical thriller for the time being and concentrating my efforts on a new writing project. What do you think?

This is an interesting question. First let me tell you that at this point the election is going to have absolutely no impact on whether or not you sell a book. Publishers usually schedule their books a year ahead of time. In fact, in a recent conversation with an editor we were discussing what year it was and she said to me, “I’m already in 2009.” Editors buying books right now are buying for 2009. Some might have spots to fill with books in early 2009, but no one is concerned with the election when it comes to publishing; those books were bought in 2007 at the very latest and are now well into the pipeline. They are being edited or are even done with the editing process and the covers are even done or almost done.

As for the economy, well, it stinks. And yes, like everything else book publishing is being impacted. Costs are going up everywhere and that includes the cost of book production. Everyone is spending less money and books are not usually a need like food or fuel, so they are one of the first things to go when it comes to budgeting. In other words, not as many people are buying books. Does this mean you should sit back and wait until things clear out to start submitting? Absolutely not. Not, that is, unless you’re a seer and you know the economy is going to take an upswing in August. If that’s the case, though, could you give me a buzz and let me know what you know?

From an author’s point of view it’s always a “dreadful time for fiction writers to enter the marketplace.” I’ve never, in my 15 years in publishing, heard people talk about what a great time it is for beginning authors to launch their careers. At least I’ve never heard authors say that. Editors and agents will say that all the time. It is a tough economy and it is difficult for beginning writers to break out and find readers, but that’s not going to change that much when the economy hits an upswing. So my advice to you, as always, is to write the absolute best book you can write and proudly and confidently send it out to agents. If it doesn’t sell, get that next book out there. Don’t worry about the economy, the election, or anything else. Just write a good book (with a great hook).

Jessica

20 Comments on Is the Economy Ruining Your Chance at Publication, last added: 7/17/2008

As a book reviewer, I say relax. I think, if anything, the sagging economy will improve the sales of books. The harder real life is, the more people need the comfort of imagination. This was true with Bugs Bunny cartoons between reel changes at the movies during World War II and it's true now.

I could go on, but I've been hearing these for over 20 years, and if you go back and, for instance, read some columns Lawrence Block wrote in the 1970s, the exact same things have been said for the last 50 years at least.

Actually, from what I'm hearing on reader's groups, it's a wonderful time for fiction! As kimber an said, people need the comfort of imagination. When times are tough, do you want a depressing dose of reality, or a chance to fly free in a world of fantasy? Personally, I'd go for the fantasy, and from the way readers are talking on chat lists, that's exactly what a lot of them are doing. Instead of the "big summer vacation," it's quiet days at the local pool and a good book to read while the kids swim.

That's an interesting question. I know I'm reading more than ever. I don't find much on TV/Movies of interest, but after a day of writing I need some excitement and the CA desert is stinking hot at this time of year. It's nice to spend an afternoon in an air conditioned bookstore looking for treasures.

The thing that has changed for me is, I'm reading more mystery and suspense. Dare I say it, even on ocassion, a thriller. And those things used to scare me.

How refreshing to read an optimistic take on publishing. I'm in backlash mode about the economy. I don't want to read, hear, or see any more news reports about the terrible shape we're in. I get that every time I'm at the gas pump or the grocery store. Thanks, Jessica, you brightened my day.

like many here, i think such a statement is crock. wine and alcohol sales go up, way up during a recession. movie ticket sales do not fall off. heck, even gas consumption is on the rise, despite the costs. books, good ones i should say, will never fall out fashion. they are one of the last legal drugs we have, one of the cheapest and purest forms of escapism left.

But one thing about the question itself caught my attention: a mistaken assumption that writing is a profession like, say, engineering or teaching or car repair. I mean, not to ennoble it overmuch, or assign it a magical/mystical quality that it may not have. But it honestly does seem to be a "career" which people go into completely independently of the odds of making much money at it.

With gas prices so high and rising higher, I barely leave home anymore. However I can go to faraway lands, real or imagined, in a book. I don't think I'm the only one to think this way.

The new mood has even coined a new term - the staycation. Because of that, I think we will see greater book sales in the coming months and while the economy remains poor. We may not have huge sales but things will stay steady.

Anonymous said, on 7/16/2008 12:51:00 PM

Excuse me? Writing IS a profession, and a darned hard one at that! Publication is the dream.

Anonymous said, on 7/16/2008 2:27:00 PM

Thanks Jessica. I'm the one that asked the question. Good to know the terrible economy is not, as I feared, going to suck our unpublished works into a vortex, never to see the light of day.

But being mostly Irish, I'm a pessimist at heart. So here's something else that has me fretting: I get the sense that waiting until about mid-August to submit queries isn't a half-bad idea with the big Apple mostly deserted in mid-summer. True or not true?

PS Thanks everyone for your positive input - And worry you not: I'm not just sitting around twiddling my thumbs, fretting the summer away. After taking off a few weeks, I'm again (happily) in the throws of outlining and researching the next book.

I guess I'm being overly optimistic, but the economy doesn't worry me.

If I write a compelling story, it will sell and people will get caught up in it. The story isn't going to change because of the news. People will either get lost in my world or they won't due to what I write. The burden is on me.

Um, just had a conversation with a pal who's a buyer for a big box chain. Said book sales are about to tank, big time. That they already have started to tank.

I suppose it depends upon your socioeconomic circle, but I know a lot of folks buying rice and beans to cut back on grocery bills. That incidental paperback purchase at the grocery store or Target will have to take a bit of a hit as well.

Disagree away! Doesn't mean a great book won't get picked up, of course.

I get a lot of questions from readers who have been working back and forth with an agent on revisions to a book or proposal, but have never been told whether or not they are actually working together. In other words, did this agent offer representation somewhere along the way and the author forgot?

While I’ve never been on the other side of an offer of representation, I think I can safely say that it’s not something you would forget. So what’s going on? If you’ve gone three rounds of revisions, or one or two, with an agent, at what point are you working exclusively and at what point should you still be querying other agents? This is an interesting conundrum for authors, but the answer is really simple. You need to ask. You simply need to say that you appreciate all of the work the agent is doing for you, but wonder the status of the relationship. You might even be so bold as to ask at what point representation might be offered. Take the bull by the horns and, honestly, put the agent on the spot a little. Remember, you’re the one hiring the agent and this is a great interview opportunity for you. When I work with an author on revisions I sincerely hope that the author will be giving me first shot at being her agent. But I know all too well from experience that that’s not always going to happen. It’s a risk I take, I know, but usually it’s a risk worth taking (although if you’ve been a longtime blog reader you’ll also know I have been burned by this in the past).

If the agent is vague about representation and the tweaking is almost done you need to consider what’s best for you and your career. If you feel that you need to keep submitting queries to other agents, do so. My feeling on the entire process is that if I offer revisions and the author comes incredibly close, but the proposal might still need some tweaks, it’s time to offer representation. Why would I want to lose such a gem? I know she can do the work so anything else that can be done we can do together. Other agents might feel the work is absolutely perfect before they’ll offer. You need to find out what kind of agent you’re working with.

I would say, though, that if you’re submitting around and get another offer, you want to make sure that the agent who is working with you knows that you’re planning to keep querying or are still getting requests from other agents, and you might want to consider the work she’s put into it when choosing your final agent.

Another reason to have the conversation about official representation sooner rather than later is what if this agent thinks you’re working together and you don’t? What if she starts submitting without your knowledge?Don’t get yourself locked into something you’ll be unhappy about. Communication is KEY to a good author-agent relationship. Start that communication as soon as you can.

I’ve also been asked at what point you should talk to said agent about other works you’re writing. My answer . . . at any point, but especially if you’ve stopped querying and are working with this agent exclusively. If she offers and you are no longer querying, will she be ready to represent everything you’re doing? You need to know that before you lock yourself into what you hope will be a permanent relationship.

Hiring an agent means trusting your gut and trusting your agent. If you don’t feel comfortable having frank discussions with a potential agent now, how is that going to change when the contract is signed?

Communication is SO important. I think writers sometimes are so desperate (talking about myself, lol) to get published that we may tend to grovel a bit. Thanks for pointing out the obvious in that we help the agent get paid. And the agent helps us get published.

So often the information in your posts comes down to two distinct yet connected points--common sense and common courtesy. Not a bad way to do business, though I can't imagine an agent actually sending out proposals for a client without said client first signing a contract. Does that actually happen?

I've been in that position. I think the writer/querier has a right to feel that because the agent has taken the time to make suggestions and ask for revisions, there is an implicit contract. We all know how busy agents are, and if they were not interested, we'd get the dreaded form letter.

But from your perspective, how often are you testing to see if the author is someone who will be easy to work with--who will take constructive criticism, who will understand comments and act on them effectively? Sort of a dry run for a real relationship?

Of course, nothing beats just asking the question: will you represent me? No matter how hard that is for the hopeful writer.

Thank you for your thoughts. My take is that an agent who is willing to work with me on revisions is now my first choice for representation. I would desist from other queries to concentrate on getting the book revised to the point the agent working with me will represent that work...or not. But at least I would run it out to its conclusion with that agent. I find your comments regarding working on revisions with a potential client only to have him/her go with another agent after you have spent your time and efforts working with that author on their book. Seems to me that is pretty damn shabby.Another point your brought up: when do you mention other projects. You inicate immediately. But what if you are working on a revision and then you represent that work and now the author has other works he wants you to look at. But what if those projects are books he/she had PREVIOUSLY queried you on and you passed? Or what if you had requested a partial on another book and after reading that one passed? Would you not consider those? Or would you take another look and see if, with additional re-writing it would work for you? How do you handle those situations?

I have to admit that sometimes the whole process reminds me of courting during the Victorian era.

:)

Anonymous said, on 7/15/2008 10:54:00 AM

When my former agent provided feedback on my ms, she said it was with "an eye toward representation." I knew where we stood. However, once I made those revisions and sent them back to her, I also sent out another batch of queries as insurance.

Kate, i love what you said about common courtesy and common sense.

Anonymous said, on 7/15/2008 11:24:00 AM

I'd like to add to Anonymous's question, if I may. When you've signed a client and are submitting his/her work to editors, at what point do you want to hear about the writer's other ideas? When do you want to see proposals for them or want them to start working on other books? Or do you want to exhaust all avenues with the book on submission before you start talking about other projects? Does it make a difference if you're getting editors who are interested but haven't finished the book yet, so you feel confident an offer will come in soon--so you don't want the writer worrying about something new when you feel a sale is imminent?

Anonymous said, on 7/15/2008 12:02:00 PM

I went through this process, starting in December 2006 with an "I'm love your manuscript" phone call to a spring 2008 submit of my novel to major houses.

There were a number of events that popped up between then and Spring.

Revisions were part of it, getting to know my agent was another part (and him getting to know me). My gut tells me timing is an unspoken element, too.

I was offered a contract in an almost offhanded way -- "oh, have we sent you a contract?" in August 2007. I'd WAITED for him to ask. I never pressured, just did the work and let it all unfold.

Elation.

Then, another last minute revision in November and ... up to now. Waiting to hear back from editors. And, yes, I keep in touch and I'm interested, etc. but it's a more effective use of my time to write another novel (and draft another).

I think the getting to know one another part is essential. I feel like a lot of what I read here and on other agent / writer blogs is almost a sort of desperateness: "If only I had an agent, then ____." What always seems to be left out of the endless discussions about queries, behavior, etc. ad nauseum is a) the quality of the manuscript (have a completed on if you're writing fiction; you'll get a better deal!) and b) that "having" an agent means having a relationship. Truly. You will have to speak to the person, be transparent, agree to a business contract, be proactive about your a career --- essentially a range of basic, good common sense and communication skills.

To my mind -- and how I approached the phone through the revision process -- was that everything I did and said would be, from my agent's p.o.v., exactly how I would be were he to take me onto his client list and bring me into the fold of a super prestigious agency.

Likewise, how he presented information to ME was on my mind, too. All my questions were answered but in a very indirect way. Meaning, as an organic part of the conversation. He volunteered information, mentioned other clients ... I was given a LOT of information and shown how he operates in the world. And I liked it.

Now, when we finally met, I was a nervous wreck. And it took me a while to be able to talk in complete sentences. But that's the cool thing about being a writer: it's a lot different from being an orator. I can be kind of weird and quircky (qwicky?) ...

I think when you have that first conversation on the phone about the manuscript and if the discussion steers toward the kinds of revisions the agent would like to have made, that's when you ask if this is an offer of representation. Get it out in the open from the start. That's what I did, and she was like, "Oh, yes, of course! I'll be sending you a contract in the mail." And that's how we started off. She didn't offer representation the second she had me on the phone. She wanted to see how open I was to making revisions because she's part of a very hands-on agency that works directly with their authors in the revision process to get the manuscript as perfect as possible before submitting to publishers. She's just terrific to work with, too. I count my blessings every day. 8^)

In the comments of our pitch critiques a few wondered how much mood might have to do with an agent’s decision. The truth is that no matter what an agent tells you, a lot goes into an agent’s decision that you have no control of.

Mood might be one of those things. If I’ve just taken on two new clients and my other clients have also been keeping me busy reading material and working with their editors, I might be feeling overwhelmed and really overworked. In that case a proposal is going to have to be even more eye-catching than normal. If, however, things have been going smoothly and I’m actually feeling caught up with my work, I might be willing to give proposals a chance that I might not otherwise. In other words, I might think the writing seems off, but the proposal is intriguing enough that I’m curious. That’s something I wouldn’t do if I was feeling inundated.

I also might be in the mood for a certain type of book or sick of seeing a certain type of book. If I’ve been inundated with Star Trek rip-offs it’s very unlikely a Star Trek rip-off is going to grab my attention. If, however, I’ve been reading a lot of thrillers in my spare time then it’s likely I’m looking for a thriller that week or that month and any “thrilling” query will catch my attention. If I’ve just sold three vampire books it’s unlikely I’m going to be interested in another vampire book for a while, but instead I might want to see a quiet historical romance.

Mood affects all of us and all of our reading. Think about it. If you’re feeling down in the dumps and want to be cheered up you might pick up a romantic comedy or light cozy mystery rather than a dark thriller. I know that I’ve gone through periods in my life when I can’t read anything depressing and other times when all I want is a good cry.

The truth is that you never know the mood of the agent you’re pitching to or what is happening in her personal life that might affect the choices she’s making. In fact, in a lot of ways you don’t know what’s happening in her professional life that affects the choices she’s making. An example of that is when I said that I see a lot of insurance adjustor mysteries and many of you commented that you’ve never seen one. Because what we sometimes see a lot of are not things that ever get published—ask Kim about books on cloning Jesus. I know, I know, many of you will say that good agents aren’t affected by mood. I disagree. I think a good agent doesn’t let her mood get in the way of her job, but she does allow her mood to get involved. And in the end, good writing fits any mood. And even better, a good book can change every mood.

I can relate to this at the moment. I'm judging a comp for the first time and after the fifth 'woman must marry man she hates for a year (but secretly lusts after) because of a clause in a will and though he's a total pig to her falls in love with him' plot it makes me less inclined to be patient and kind with the sixth. Not even when they turn it around and make it the man who must marry a woman he thinks is a money hungry slut for a year (although he fancies her like mad) in order to fulfil a will clause/save the family fortune/keep custody of his nephew/stop her marrying his brother, then (oh shock) he realises she's actually a sweet girl and falls in love with her.

I had to step away to keep my objectivity. The entrants don't realise their homage to 1970s romance is marching arm in arm with fifty others, or how depressing the lack of originality is. I'm so glad to see it from this side. I'll never diss an editor or agent again.

Anonymous said, on 4/15/2008 3:13:00 AM

I think mood also affects writers too. If I'm in a crappy mood I tend to write crappy. If I'm in a good mood, the characters, dialogue and plot all come together as they should.

CAL said, on 4/15/2008 3:42:00 AM

a good book can change every moodI am fully in agreement with this. Sometimes I can feel absolutely horrible, and curl up with a book to escape the world. When the book is worth it, I come out feeling so much better.

Aimless Writer said, on 4/15/2008 6:03:00 AM

"If, however, I’ve been reading a lot of thrillers in my spare time "You have spare time? Wow! I don't know where you find it.

I believe everything is affected by mood. It's human. What I'd like to see? Instead of agents posting what's on their ipod, post something like; Mood; romance (Or thriller or historical, etc) then we'd know when a good time to submit our genre. One of the nice things about this blog is the honesty that shines through.

Julie Weathers said, on 4/15/2008 6:27:00 AM

I'm glad you posted this.

When a person gets a rejection and the agent is kind enough to include something like, "I like the writing, but it just isn't for me right now," then we have hopes it really was just not right for them.

If authors labor under the fantasy every agent is completely objective, the rejections take a bigger toll.

Reading and writing is very subjective, but that agent's spidey sense and intuition will also work for a writer.

Thank heavens.

Now to get the timing down just right....

Christie Craig said, on 4/15/2008 6:49:00 AM

Jessica,

I love your honesty. CC

Timmy Mac said, on 4/15/2008 7:20:00 AM

Great. There goes my book about Clone Jesus the insurance adjustor (best gig he could get without his dad pulling strings; also he knows karate).

Back to the drawing board, I guess.

Anonymous said, on 4/15/2008 8:34:00 AM

I totally agree that mood will affect whether an agent asks for mroe on a book. Why wouldn't it? You're human! My mood affects what I read; I don't see why it wouldn't be different for anyone else. But I would also imagine mood is only ONE of the factors and not THE only factor in making offers for representation. . .

spyscribbler said, on 4/15/2008 9:35:00 AM

I, too, love that quote, "a good book can change every mood."

Some writers can just pull me away from anything. They can seduce and manipulate me, pull me into their story, take me into their world.

I'm totally fascinated by that. I love it especially when it feels like the writer knows exactly what she's doing to you. It's a power so cool, it gives me shivers.

Anonymous said, on 4/15/2008 12:45:00 PM

Aimless,correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't what's playing o the Ipod suggest the mood of the agent?

And I guess agents are bipolar just as writers are compulsive obsessive.That give me hope that if you can synchronize your Mojo to the pendulum swing of your dream agent, maybe she'll see how talented you are. LOL.Google Eistein's definition of insanity.Thank God I have other ways to make my name and fortune!

THE GRIND GUYS said, on 4/15/2008 1:16:00 PM

"Let's see if we can cook up some good moods, Stink. Here goes, you greenhorns."

NEVER HAD AN IPOD MUFFLED SO MUCH GRINDED CRACK

(Eighth in series at BookEnds, LLC)

Here's the thing that bothered me while diving under Kim's desk. If Jessica was in the hallway, could her sidekick pit bull be far behind? Truth is, I liked the twisted mutts, but Stink wet himself at even the slightest glimpse.

I inched to the wire-hole at the desk's side, lifted the metal cover, and zeroed in on the door. Problem being, the door was already open and Jessica stood under the jamb, the pit bull at her side. Major uh oh.

Jessica wore Ipod earbuds and was rocking out, her foot tapping to a beat, her ankle tattoo gyrating enough to trigger vertigo.

"Thanks for the tip," Stinky said into my ear. He was clinging to me tight enough to cut short my breathing. And as I feared, he shook like a deprived crack whore.

"I got your back, buddy. No worries."

"It's not my back I'm worried about."

I wormed my neck, eyeballing the object of his concern. My guess was that Jessica couldn't see Stink's protruding backside since she was still 'dancing with the star' by the door, but that didn't stop Stinky from biting his lip.

The office was quiet, except for the mutt's heavy breathing. I imagined Jessica thinking the earlier noise in here had been from some new gadget to this tinfoil freak show, wondering why in blazes they'd promoted girlfriend from editor, hoping against hope that the Crazy Town bus was on its way to pick up Kim.

There came a rustle from the door. I returned to the wire-hole just in time to see the pit bull dart forward before disappearing. Oh crap, now I was biting my lip!

It took only a heartbeat, but the pit bull was at Stinky's crack and growling. Stink pulled back his lips into a loopy grin and fainted.

"Son of a bitch."

-----------------------

(Remember to stop in and say hey to the guys.

http://thegrindguys.blogspot.com/

Like we told Anon 11:52, we'll leave the porch light on)

Dave F. said, on 4/15/2008 3:42:00 PM

It's called being human, isn't it? I've had those days when I HAD to be fair and objective and I felt like {sh*t} or been to busy, or had family troubles, chocolate cravings or the common cold/flu.Ain't nothing much you can do but step back and find a way to be fair and objective. I do it with music.

Andrew said, on 4/15/2008 5:20:00 PM

This is similar to a lesson I teach college writing students. Some writers want to assume a perfect reader, who's never in a bad mood, who is perfectly willing and accepting, and who has nothing better to do than to think through what the writer might mean. And those readers don't exist. If the end product of a lit-agent search is a book on the shelves, that book is going to be browsed by people in various moods, and that mood will affect sales. Sometimes the bad-mood reading is the one that best predicts success.

And Aimless, I like that blogging agents post bits like "what's on my iPod." It's a nice personal touch, and possibly more helpful in querying because maybe you can show you're interested in the agent's taste in other entertainment, rather than just what they can do for you.

Just recently I received a nonfiction proposal with an amazing title and a terrific new take on what’s been a fairly well published topic. But I really liked what this author had to say and she had the platform to back herself up. Before making a decision on representation, though, I needed to do some research. I studied Publisher’s Marketplace to see what had been recently sold in this area and how long it had been since books on this subject had been sold. I wanted to get a sense of when the real rise of this subject matter had been and whether or not publishers were currently feeling inundated or might be ready for a new title. I also reviewed the more popular and the most successful books on the subject to see how my proposal was different and how it would stand out in what is almost always a crowded market. And of course I discussed the project with my colleagues to see what they thought.

After doing all of this I decided that I was armed and dangerous and ready to make an offer. In fact, I was very excited about the proposal. The author had great credentials and the title and concept were absolutely brilliant. Most important, though, while I didn’t think it would be an easy sell, I knew that by doing some tweaking on the proposal and making some minor adjustments, the author and I could create something that would definitely be a hit.

So I picked up the phone and grabbed the proposal for the phone number. It wasn’t there. In fact, except for an SASE, there was nothing on the proposal to indicate how I should reach the author. No phone number, no email, no web site. Nothing. Now what? Do I send an SASE with an offer? Do I Google the author and try to hunt her down? Or is this a sign from someone that maybe this is going to be too much work and I should just use that SASE for a rejection? Do you know I actually debated this one? I don’t think of myself as a spiritual person or as someone who believes in signs, but I think I might be. I know when I told Kim and Jacky, they both had the same reaction I did. Both of them wondered too if maybe it was a sign.

But I persevered. I hunted through Google and 411.com and finally in some obscure article somewhere I found her email address. I sent off an email explaining that I loved the proposal and really hoped to talk further with her about it. No word. The entire day went by and I heard nothing. Okay . . . maybe it’s an old address, the article was about five years old. Or maybe, just maybe, it was a sign.

I own a Pit Bull, and many will tell you that dog owners are a lot like their dogs. When I get that bone I refuse to let go, so the next morning I did another quick Google search, and this time I came up with the phone number of her practice. Bingo! I called and left a message and finally, that afternoon, she called me back. Only to let me know that the book proposal had already been sent to about 40 publishers and rejected by almost everyone. Now she claimed to have interest from a publisher and didn’t need an agent. She didn’t think there was anything else I could do. Okay . . . so why, less than three weeks earlier, had she sent me her dang proposal?

I'm just wondering if this phrase has ever NOT been used to describe the publishing marketplace by people in the business. I've been hearing it for 20 or 25 years and if some of Lawrence Block's earlier writing columns are an indication, publishers and editors and agents have been saying the same thing pretty much since the 1950s (or since the 10 Commandments were inscribed--"10! Why do we need 10? We were perfectly fine with 5! It's crowded enough here as it is! Who needs 10?"

Or is "it's a crowded market" just an attitude everybody in publishing uses to justify rejection? It is, after all, an industry built on the expection of a "no" response.

beth said, on 3/18/2008 6:09:00 AM

I cant believe anyone would do that...after trying so hard for five years to attract an agent, and this person is so shamelessly shallow about the whole process?! You should be grateful that it worked out well (for you) in the end!!

BookEnds, LLC said, on 3/18/2008 6:23:00 AM

LOL Good call anonymous. That's what I get for not properly proofing my posts and for not using a good editor.

Mark: Actually there have been plenty of times when the phrase was not used, they are just very short lived. Just two or three short years ago I had publishers knocking down my door for erotic romance. That lasted less than a year before it became a crowded market.

--jhf

Maria Zannini said, on 3/18/2008 6:38:00 AM

>>I own a Pit Bull, and many will tell you that dog owners are a lot like their dogs.

Now I know why I liked your style so much. LOL.

Bummer about this author. But karma has a way of visiting those with bad manners. I'm betting the publisher will take her for a ride if she waltzes in without representation. Her call. Her loss.

green_knight said, on 3/18/2008 6:43:00 AM

The writer is shortsighted and you're better off without, but this brings up an interesting question: would you reccommend that writers submit to publishers directly (presumably an offer would prove salability) or do you prefer manuscripts that haven't been rejected already?

Aimless Writer said, on 3/18/2008 6:44:00 AM

The first word that came to me was "mean" (not you, the author). Why would she send it if she already made the rounds with it? She definitely wasted your time and for what? Second word? Unprofessional.

I have a pit-greyhound mix. She charges at you like she'll rip you apart, once she gets close-she runs and hides. Brave but to a point. What does that say about me? lol

Julie Weathers said, on 3/18/2008 6:53:00 AM

Wow.

I've been known to do things that might make a person wonder if my brain is on leave, but not putting contact information in a query? Yeah, I think I would have been attacked by the Morning Star virus and turned into a zombie for that to happen. I have to restrain myself to keep from putting my information in florescent glitter.

Yeah, I believe in signs too, but I have a rather tenacious persnality about some things. Sometimes I think something is a test to see how bad I want it.

I think you passed the test, if that was it.

Agents are for more than submitting manuscripts. Her not realizing that tells you something.

It sounds like that author was a) completely unfamiliar with the basic query process, and b) she was frustrated and at the end of her rope, willing to take any offer that came along. In both instances, I think she loses.

But my brain is simply unable to comprehend how she didn't have contact information on her query. I have to hold myself back from putting my neighbor's number, my mom's number, my neighbor's mom's number, and the number to the nearest Starbucks. ANY book, website or fifth person on the street will tell you to put any all pertinent contact info on your query. Phone number, cell number, email, web site, blog, the address to the little online cam at your doggy daycare - every possible way to get a hold of you!

The way I see it, one should always work under the assumption that the agent will read the query, fall out of their chair, get up, grab for the phone and start dialing frantically (after screaming, "It's the one! I've found the one!" at the top of their lungs.)

Faye Hughes said, on 3/18/2008 7:46:00 AM

Jessica,

Okay, I love this post! Of course, I'm a big believer in signs. Before I sold my first book, I had asked the universe to send me a sign. Show me balloons, I said, if I'm going to sell this book. And, yep, I saw them everywhere the day before I sold. So...like Pavlov's dogs, when I see balloons now, I think I'm selling a book, or that good chit is coming. I've even gotten my writing partner for my non-fiction into the act. Every time she sees a balloon somewhere, she calls and says, "Faye, I saw balloons! Good chit is coming!"

And it almost always does, too.

Faye

Anonymous said, on 3/18/2008 8:00:00 AM

I'm not surprised at her behavior. I'm currently editing a book for a man who is too impatient to 'wait for NY.' He thinks it is too slow and that is non-fiction book must get in the market NOW. So, he is going the self-pub route.

I felt badly for him. I thought, if I could only convince him to submit it to a few good agents, maybe he would see how much better it would be to go that route. And since I've been doing the agent-search thing for awhile now, I'd have a lot of good advice to give and could even do some research for him.

But he's convinced he can do better. He has the idea that if he doesn't get the book out now, someone else will beat him to it.

Sadly, he doesn't realize that even if his book is out first, before everyone else gets the idea, his market will be so small...and it will be an uphill battle. Which means another writer with more foresight could go the traditional route, publish a similar book, and make a lot more money...even well after his book was self-published.

There's really not a lot you can do for someone who wants instant gratification like that. No patience. No understanding of the industry. They probably wouldn't do well even with representation.

Christie Craig said, on 3/18/2008 8:33:00 AM

Jessica,

Great post. Hmm...you do remind me of a Pit Bull. I've got a black lab mixed with cocker. I'm always in a good mood, but also always have an attitude going.

And I'm a big believer in signs. I think the woman missed out.

Thanks for the chuckle.

CC

ajmenden said, on 3/18/2008 8:50:00 AM

"Yeah, I believe in signs too, but I have a rather tenacious persnality about some things. Sometimes I think something is a test to see how bad I want it."

I completely agree with you, Julie.

Bizarre behavior is definitely a sign to be cautious, and not putting any contact information in their submission is very bizarre.

Rachel Glass said, on 3/18/2008 9:38:00 AM

That's pretty bad. I can't believe anyone would submit something they had labored on so diligently, and not provide contact information.

That is extremely bizarre. And sad. . .

Kate Douglas said, on 3/18/2008 10:04:00 AM

LOL...I believe in signs. I also believe in karma...what goes around really DOES come around. Hang in there, and next time listen to your gut.

Karen Duvall said, on 3/18/2008 10:44:00 AM

Mark, it's so funny you should bring up the "crowded market" thing. I talked about this on a writers' forum just the other day because this same sentiment had come up.

In the eighties (before I was writing), editors and literary agents attended writers conferences, mostly romance writers' conferences, begging for manuscripts. That's right, begging. I found this hard to believe, too, when a multi-published friend whose been writing romance for the past thirty years told me about this. But it's true. Books were really hot back then, especially romance, but there weren't many writers writing it at the time. The computer had yet to become a household word. Now that everyone and her brother has a computer, everyone whoever thought about writing a book is finally doing it. Do you think if typewriters were the only tool writers had that the market would be so crowded now? Ha!

Karen Duvall said, on 3/18/2008 10:51:00 AM

I think that subconsciously, this author didn't want representation. That's why she didn't include her contact info. On the spur of the moment, because she'd already been turned down by every publisher out there, she zapped off a proposal to Jessica without thinking it through. Having an agent is not what she wanted to begin with. Then when she found a publisher actually willing to work with her, she mentally kicked Jessica to the curb and all focus turned completely on herself without regard for anyone else.

I usually have a sixth sense about these things. I'm sure I'm right about this one.

Chessie said, on 3/18/2008 11:09:00 AM

I've got a border collie/ retriever mix. Does that mean I'm friendly, but completely lose my mind when I decide I want to chase something?

I know it doesn't mean I like running, LOL

Mark Terry said, on 3/18/2008 12:28:00 PM

Karen,As a matter of fact, I have thought--often--that everybody who can type suddenly decided they were writers once they got the hang of Microsoft Word (or back in the day, WordPerfect).

In a way, word processing has made it possible for anybody who's semi-literate to write a novel (or think they can).

Anonymous said, on 3/18/2008 12:53:00 PM

What is you take on a writer letting you know that they've been offered a publishing deal from a small house, with an advance, before you've responded to their query? Would you be inclined to offer representation if you also thought the work had merit (maybe you'd already requested a partial), or does the fact that a deal already exist that you didn't initialize turn you off?

Anonymous said, on 3/18/2008 1:01:00 PM

Sounds like the non-fic querier had an attitude of, "I'm not going to wait to hear from agents. If they can sell it before I can, then great, but I'm going straight to the publishers too, and whoever sells it first, sells it first." Or maybe she went straight to the pubs some time ago, wasn't getting any responses, and so THEN decided she needed an agent, but it was too alte, and after querying agents the pub rejects started rolling in.

Anonymous said, on 3/18/2008 1:04:00 PM

Don't take this personally, but a lot of people like your non-fic querier look down upon "middlemen" or "gatekeepers" and will try to get around them wherever possible. They want the publishers, not you, and give you attention only to the extent they think you can work for them.

Diana Peterfreund said, on 3/18/2008 1:20:00 PM

would you reccommend that writers submit to publishers directly (presumably an offer would prove salability) or do you prefer manuscripts that haven't been rejected already?

Green_Knight, usually agents prefer that you submit to them first. They tend to know the market better, and would know which editor may have a hankering for a story like that. When you submit on your own to publishers, you get shoved in a slush pile, with very little choice as to which editor reads your manuscript. You probably have it rejected by an intern (what no doubt happened to this woman), and you may have pitched it improperly (sending to the wrong imprint, playing up the wrong aspects of the novel, etc.). Or maybe you sent it to an imprint that would not bid against another imprint in their conglomerate, but another imprint would have been a much better fit.

If your book is rejected everywhere, there's nothing an agent can do. It's called "shopped out." And if your book has been requested, but is with some random editor, then your potential agent is also stuck negotiating with them, rather than an editor she may like to work with more, or an editor that she knew would really fight for the project in house, gather up a lot of enthusiasm, etc.

Some of an agent's job is to be a matchmaker, and you take that out of the equation when you submit on your own. Try agents first!

Bill Peschel said, on 3/18/2008 2:29:00 PM

I'd say you dodged a bullet there. Not only was the writer unfamiliar with the agenting process, but she sounds like someone who won't be interested in taking advice. It would take six months of grinding bees with this writer before you'll both throw in the towel.

Linnea said, on 3/18/2008 2:31:00 PM

Tenacity is always a good thing, even if it doesn't end the way we hope it will. If you're anything like me and had left it alone (I wouldn't either - dog with a bone and all that)you might always wonder if you'd done the right thing and start second guessing your decisions. Now you know and it's final.

Anonymous said, on 3/18/2008 3:48:00 PM

I love that you went to all that effort to contact the author. That's really nice to know.

I would have said, "forget it... onto the next..."

AstonWest said, on 3/18/2008 5:31:00 PM

I'm sitting here in the corner, idly wondering if the publisher expressing interest is a certain Maryland company who shall remain nameless in this post...or someone similar.

Anonymous said, on 3/18/2008 9:01:00 PM

You can be guaraneffingteed you'd have my cell phone number and email address. Later, you'd have my second email address, landline number, pager number, satphone number, and SSB channel number. No wonder I see so many people in the lit biz at the pistol range.

crapshooter said, on 3/18/2008 9:05:00 PM

Wasn't there some comedian who had a punch line of "here's your sign?" The author deserved that sign.

John said, on 3/20/2008 1:31:00 PM

It doesn't surprise me.I recently discovered a web site that containined a lot of rather amusing and well written fictional accounts of a scientist in Victorian times, along with details of a novel written around the same concept and a request by the writer for any publishers interested, to contact him.In the event I found it impossible to contact the writer ... the email I sent didn't bounce but I never received a reply. The web site was 4 years old. Makes you wonder sometimes.

Anonymous said, on 3/20/2008 11:42:00 PM

Hi Jessica,

I hope it's not to late to ask you a question related to this post.

I'm an aspiring non-fiction author with good credentials and a national platform. An acquisitions editor for the major publisher of self-help books in my area "discovered" me last week and asked me if I was interested in writing a book for the publisher.

The title the editor suggested is just what I was working toward, so I'm going to pursue.

Should I look for an agent now? Or work directly with the editor?

I'd like to build a longterm writing career, and have a proposal almost ready to go for a different book in the same broad area, but with a different focus/promise.

Should I be contacting agents now, about both projects? Or just the one I have an interested publisher for? Or get that book in progress and then seek an agent?