i went to three stores today (target, walgreens, CVS) looking for these and came up totally empty. sad face. i was hoping to find them in the wild so i didn't have to buy a million of them online (to get free shipping). has anyone seen these anywhere in person?

_________________i'm not around much, but that doesn't mean i don't love you.

i went to three stores today (target, walgreens, CVS) looking for these and came up totally empty. sad face. i was hoping to find them in the wild so i didn't have to buy a million of them online (to get free shipping). has anyone seen these anywhere in person?

Since this is the ppk, I can get away with complaining about this: people who are saying you still won't buy from UD: why?! WE WON. Our dollars have spoken! And yes, it is about money! You need money to run a company! Clearly, UD lost enough business to make them realize that people care about their stupid company ethics. Why would you want to continue to narrow who it's safe to buy from? Is it because you enjoy trying to be the veganest vegan who has ever veganed?

_________________"The Tree is His Penis"

The tree is his penis // it's very exciting // when held up to his mouth // the lights are all lighting // his eyes start a-bulging // in unbridled glee // the tree is his penis // its beauty, effulgent -amandabear

Since this is the ppk, I can get away with complaining about this: people who are saying you still won't buy from UD: why?! WE WON. Our dollars have spoken! And yes, it is about money! You need money to run a company! Clearly, UD lost enough business to make them realize that people care about their stupid company ethics. Why would you want to continue to narrow who it's safe to buy from? Is it because you enjoy trying to be the veganest vegan who has ever veganed?

Seriously? Are people saying this? (I believe you mbm, I'm just surprised! And curious where these uber-vegany vegans are hanging out.) What's the point of continuing a boycott when the reason to boycott a company has been reversed? Like you said, we won! They listened! Isn't that what we wanted?

_________________I ate the shiitake out of inappropriateness. - Hollie

Since this is the ppk, I can get away with complaining about this: people who are saying you still won't buy from UD: why?! WE WON. Our dollars have spoken! And yes, it is about money! You need money to run a company! Clearly, UD lost enough business to make them realize that people care about their stupid company ethics. Why would you want to continue to narrow who it's safe to buy from? Is it because you enjoy trying to be the veganest vegan who has ever veganed?

Seriously? Are people saying this? (I believe you mbm, I'm just surprised! And curious where these uber-vegany vegans are hanging out.) What's the point of continuing a boycott when the reason to boycott a company has been reversed? Like you said, we won! They listened! Isn't that what we wanted?

I don't know what they're buying instead, so I can't speak to that.. but I suppose the point these other shoppers are making is that they'd rather buy from a company with sincere and clear cut morals, rather than a company that varies and stretches its morals when the bottom starts to look bleak

Because indie companies only blah blah parabens blah blah so on so forth.

_________________"The Tree is His Penis"

The tree is his penis // it's very exciting // when held up to his mouth // the lights are all lighting // his eyes start a-bulging // in unbridled glee // the tree is his penis // its beauty, effulgent -amandabear

Integrity is part of the 'indie companies only' thing, because...indie companies don't make their decisions based on money? I don't know, i've said many times that it's only makeup, but some people are holding makeup companies up to a very high standard and I doubt they are holding their clothing and food suppliers to the same standards. Like if you buy Silk, or Morningstar, you're putting money in the pocket of a big, non-vegan company. And I buy both of those things, even though I could do without any of their products. There are so much bigger fish to fry, even though that's totes not vegan.

_________________"The Tree is His Penis"

The tree is his penis // it's very exciting // when held up to his mouth // the lights are all lighting // his eyes start a-bulging // in unbridled glee // the tree is his penis // its beauty, effulgent -amandabear

iuno, I don't think it applies to only indie companies. there's a crossover definitely, because indie companies (generally) need a smaller piece of the pie to survive, so can afford to bind to non-mainstream ethics/morals. there are larger companies with foundational morals that don't waiver though. but when a company admits to dismissing those morals, I think it's fair to question integrity. (though, an overreaction of raking someone over the coals/witch hunt/blah is never fun)

I think "There are so much bigger fish to fry" sums it up anyway :) let people vote with their dollar! maybe they'll vote and suddenly there'll be several new companies able to thrive and grow as a result of this. naive? yeah, probably. but there's always hope.. besides, is there anything inherently wrong with supporting an indie/alternative company?

UD: We are going to China, animal testing, bullshiitake bullshiitake bullshiitake!Their customers: I'm not going to buy from you anymore! Please change your minds! Here's a petition! Many angry comments, not just from veg*ns!UD profits: down faster than $20 prostitutueUD: Okay...that was not such a good idea. We see that now. We won't do this because it's clearly bad for our company.Most of their companies: VICTORY!Some of their customers: We don't care, we still aren't buying from you or recommending you or supporting you in any way.UD (presumably): Wait, then why did we bother?!

Also, I know that UD isn't indie, but they aren't Revlon either. They are still small enough that our influence can and clearly DOES matter. And they are widely available. Can you (hypothetical you) imagine your aunt giving you some UD for Christmas and telling you how she made sure to buy only the things with the paw prints, and explaining to her that you can't use it because they flopped on their morals and then flopped back? I know their shiitake is expensive, but you can go to a store, swatch things, easily see what's vegan, and make a decision. You can't do that with indie companies, and your average person who doesn't care a ton about makeup isn't going to hunt down tiny companies on etsy and take a gamble.

I feel like i'm rambling at this point and I know we're both kind of playing devil's advocate.

_________________"The Tree is His Penis"

The tree is his penis // it's very exciting // when held up to his mouth // the lights are all lighting // his eyes start a-bulging // in unbridled glee // the tree is his penis // its beauty, effulgent -amandabear

I know my non-vegan friends who followed my UD breakdown on facebook were really excited when I posted about them switching back. I know a lot of omnis who don't follow this stuff closely, but who still prefer to wear CF brands, and ask me if x or y brand is safe. I'm grateful for any brand I can add to the list that they can find easily, and have heard of before, because if they buy that they aren't buying from a testing company. I stopped buying makeup that was tested on animals years before I even went vegetarian, but I don't know if I would have if I hadn't had easily accessible options and had to order everything online. That's the main reason I'm so upset about Revlon, because that was a CF brand that you could find in nearly every drugstore in the country, with wider distribution than Wet n Wild, Physician's Formula, and e.l.f.

And no lie, if we had definitive proof tomorrow that L'Oreal and their sub brands had all completely stopped testing on animals anywhere in the world, and were stopped forever, I'd go out and throw some money their way, because I believe in rewarding policies I agree with, even if they come about for reasons that are less than perfect.

_________________In addition to BB creams, we now have CC creams and even DD creams. Where's my ZZ cream? I need help growing a sweet beard.-amandabear

UD: We are going to China, animal testing, bullshiitake bullshiitake bullshiitake!Their customers: I'm not going to buy from you anymore! Please change your minds! Here's a petition! Many angry comments, not just from veg*ns!UD profits: down faster than $20 prostitutueUD: Okay...that was not such a good idea. We see that now. We won't do this because it's clearly bad for our company.Most of their companies: VICTORY!Some of their customers: We don't care, we still aren't buying from you or recommending you or supporting you in any way.UD (presumably): Wait, then why did we bother?!

Also, I know that UD isn't indie, but they aren't Revlon either. They are still small enough that our influence can and clearly DOES matter. And they are widely available. Can you (hypothetical you) imagine your aunt giving you some UD for Christmas and telling you how she made sure to buy only the things with the paw prints, and explaining to her that you can't use it because they flopped on their morals and then flopped back? I know their shiitake is expensive, but you can go to a store, swatch things, easily see what's vegan, and make a decision. You can't do that with indie companies, and your average person who doesn't care a ton about makeup isn't going to hunt down tiny companies on etsy and take a gamble.

I feel like i'm rambling at this point and I know we're both kind of playing devil's advocate.

I don't think they were really UD customers to begin with and UD will probably not notice much of a change in their sales. It's easy to say fork the company you were never buying from in the first place.