To answer linkle’s question... I don’t think a night vig shot is necessary on day1 since little to less reads are made but if I had to come up with an answer to that question just for the heck of it my bullet goes no noworry

I am also voting for noworry Rn now based on gut feeling. Almost 90% a newbie would be randomly assigned as scum, this happens a lot of times so that’s my first second. Second reason for voting noworry was already pointed out by DLR and Linkle. Saying not voting just because you feel there’s not enough content generated is just like saying you’re too lazy to read te previous threads.

@Linkle I would like to change my answer to the people I listed as Mafia for people to be offed. And to change investigation to Elias and HarmonicalHero.

For the investigation, Elias really hasn't participated much beyond finding me suspicious because I'm the leader of the town or something lol. And it's usually Mafia who have the most to gain to getting rid of loud town voices. I personally would like to look into a low lying player that hasn't been participating much as well. As for HarmonicalHero, while he has been generating content, he hasn't been as active as it were as he normally is when he's town. When he's town, he's right up there with the leader board, so I would feel more comfortable with confirmation if he is on our side.

@Linkle I would like to change my answer to the people I listed as Mafia for people to be offed. And to change investigation to Elias and HarmonicalHero.

For the investigation, Elias really hasn't participated much beyond finding me suspicious because I'm the leader of the town or something lol. And it's usually Mafia who have the most to gain to getting rid of loud town voices. I personally would like to look into a low lying player that hasn't been participating much as well. As for HarmonicalHero, while he has been generating content, he hasn't been as active as it were as he normally is when he's town. When he's town, he's right up there with the leader board, so I would feel more comfortable with confirmation if he is on our side.

Alright so here's my quick thoughts so far based on quickly skimming while I've got some time before I go back into working:

While there’s every chance Kaylin intended me or Pav to be the target of her recruitment, there’s equally every chance that we were not. Plus in a 5/5 bastard game, there's every possibility that the person targeted was not the final destination of the action performed and so any mason that remains might be setting themselves up for failure if they 1. claim and 2. are wrong about the alignment of the person targeted.

I think the points about timezones and friendship aren’t inherently *bad* reasons to recruit, but I hold Kaylin to a higher analytical standard than that. I love reading Ruki’s analysis and being able to ask questions about her judgement and what she thinks would be a great asset regardless of timezone or friendship. If I was recruiting she or HH would be my top picks in this game.

(note: this isn’t me suggesting that I find either of them scummy, even *despite* Ruki being the one to lead the lynch on Bolero, but I think there’s better choices than me lol. tbh I’m devo because I’ve always wanted to be mason-recruited so i’m salty af about it ;-; )

Zachie wrote:

If there's a Vigilante.. what the fuck? Do not shoot someone without good reason.

Seconding this. Do not use a kill action unless you are certain that you are going to hit scum with it. Anything less is a waste and we could lose valuable roles in the crossfire. The town does not need more confusion from this.

Froyo wrote:

Also re the second point, at first I was under the impression that one person was killed by Mafia and the other by a night killer, which, given Linkle's really obvious questions yesterday about "if you could kill someone tonight" made me (and most likely the mafia as well, I thought) immediately assume she was. I didn't think there would be any other alternative to it and Linkle was all but found out.

Tbh I just thought it was another way of asking for reads. I’m pretty sure Kae’s asked similar questions in previous games that I’ve been in without being a vig.

(I know that these have already been largely replied to but I felt the need to add it)

As for who I find suspicious, I definitely find Froyo’s attempts to gain information less.. pro-town, but as I’ve stated before that could just be down to playing style. The nastiness of reply certainly doesn’t strike me as beneficial. If I had to pick out of the three options to trust the least, it would be him.

I think noworry has unfortunately been a little inactive so I don’t have much of a read for her. Xenovent I haven't got much of an opinion on, so I'll need to look up his posts and double check what he's been saying.

I would investigate Chloroform or Ruki rather than kill them because Chloroform seems town based on the posts so far and well I just want confirmation that Ruki or DLR are not leading us down the garden path More for confirmation than out of actual suspiciousness. I'm cautious of advocating for strong town voices, because if anything Cody/Ruki in the Club Penguin game was a solid mafia run in my books, but so far I'm feeling decent reads and content from them.

1. I am still VERY suspicious on noworry. He posted earlier during the start of the day saying something like “I’ll catch up with reading tomorrow etc.”. He did not even bother reading the vote counts the previous day and didn’t gave us any counter reasons nor clarify on why he thinks no one is suspicious to him despite the arguments generated on day 1. He also jump voted on Bolero and I’m not even sure if he gave a profound reason why.

My theory is noworry is scum and seeing one of his comrades had voted for Bolero gave him a reason to cast a vote on Bolero too. This was exactly the same scummy action Skinnydogprod (as scum) did in penguin mafia. A typical new player move (one of which I’m also guilty of doing during the BSD mafia game lol)

2. I find Mr. Miyamoto suspicious D1 for voting randomly. I forgave him because he was new but seeing that he never came back to the thread to change his vote (despite the pings) or at least let us know what he thinks regarding the lynch candidates on D1 tells me he’s hiding something or is struggling to come up with any defense since the spotlight was on him for a second.

3. I understand froyo’s reasoning behind the accusations that kaylin may have recruited either pav or koda due to time zones and that they are friends irl but I don’t think this is a typical kaylin move. Idk

More post to come in te morning.
Also guys I’m on mobile so my last post before the end of d1 had a lot of typos lol and prob this one too. Welp

1) I didn't paint the target on your back, you did by talking in ways that could make anyone (*cough*me*cough*) believe you are in fact a night vig looking for who to kill :V Since two people died at the start of the day, I saw no alternative other than someone with a night kill ability killing an extra person, and the most likely case was you, and knowing why you killed one of them is important? Lol, the mafia would also catch the hint that you were a night vig, so it's not as though *I* outed you as one in any case.

Furthermore, read my reply to DLR about backtracking once I realized Kaylin might have died on her own. You're kinda making a show out of something I realized on my own so, uh. Lmao.

On the second point, do you seriously find it so hard to believe that someone who gets along with others and is on a similar timezone in a game they're sorta out there in terms of timezones (meaning they'd be on roughly the same and get along sufficiently well to talk a lot), would target them to invite them into a secret Mason chat? I... Don't, to put it simply And likewise, the fact that the two of them have acted scummy (not talking to each other directly in-game, having general crowd-following votes...) doesn't paint them any better in my head. If you can't see that, that's on you unfortunately.

Also I find it amusing how everyone seems to ignore that I didn't vote for Pav just for being him, lol. I was looking into everyone who made a vote for me on a whim and was following the crowd to lay low; if you read the post I ultimately could not send yesterday, I said I was keeping an eye on Tri Force (who was acting mostly the same way as Pavlova with slightly more posts) and changed my vote to Bolero (who quickly changed his vote to me as soon as people started voting for him for not voting for anyone...). So it's not limited to a single person.

1) I didn't paint the target on your back, you did by talking in ways that could make anyone (*cough*me*cough*) believe you are in fact a night vig looking for who to kill :V Since two people died at the start of the day, I saw no alternative other than someone with a night kill ability killing an extra person, and the most likely case was you, and knowing why you killed one of them is important? Lol, the mafia would also catch the hint that you were a night vig, so it's not as though *I* outed you as one in any case.

Completely ignoring my first point which someone else backed up, I see. I said it before and I will say it again -- it is a common routine question. You had no reason to assume such and even less reason to point it out if you truly were Town and believed that's what I was, REGARDLESS of the circumstances. Even IF there were a Vig and that Vig had killed Kaylin, your last priority as a Townie should be to out that person. Knowing why "I" killed her should not have been your priority, as it is NEVER good for the Town to draw attention to even the slightest possibility of a vig at such an early stage in the game, much less WHO you believe they are! Just because you supposedly "noticed" something which you thought was a sign to what I was does not mean you should be sharing that in a place where ANYONE can see it, in case the Mafia HADN'T noticed your supposed clue.

Furthermore, read my reply to DLR about backtracking once I realized Kaylin might have died on her own. You're kinda making a show out of something I realized on my own so, uh. Lmao.

I'm making a fuss because this is NOT pro-Town behavior in the least. Supposing I WAS the Vig and I had actually killed Kaylin, you would have found out my reason when/if I deemed it necessary to out myself and thought the risk was worth the information I could provide. No sooner. Regardless of my role, if I die tonight, I want the town to make very clear mental note that it is likely because of you.

On the second point, do you seriously find it so hard to believe that someone who gets along with others and is on a similar timezone in a game they're sorta out there in terms of timezones (meaning they'd be on roughly the same and get along sufficiently well to talk a lot), would target them to invite them into a secret Mason chat? I... Don't, to put it simply And likewise, the fact that the two of them have acted scummy (not talking to each other directly in-game, having general crowd-following votes...) doesn't paint them any better in my head. If you can't see that, that's on you unfortunately.

I can't see it because I find it completely silly as an idea. Not only would it be too obvious and predictable of a move for her to do and is not something I see her doing, but the reason you give for her doing it is, in my eyes, mostly pointless. Masons always have at least a full day or night cycle to talk to each other during, if not constant chat time -- that's at least 24 hours per session. Regardless of who she chose, they could easily have worked out a time to talk to each other each cycle when they were able.

In any event, I'm off to bed for the night. I'll return long before EoD.

Also I should mention; out of my current 4 scum reads, two of them are Koda and Pav for reasons that I would hope I've made absolutely clear by now.

Linkle is someone else under my scum radar because of the way she seems to be deflecting my (non-hostile) view into her with facts I had since then clarified and backtracked from without altering her stance at all after having enough time to recheck that I had, in fact, altered my thoughts about her, as though it was an attempt to get heat on *me* instead, then trying to shove off my suspicion about Kodachrome and Pavlova (other two under my scumdar) with the argument that I was basing myself on facts that "should" be irrelevant to Mafia (even though they... Really shouldn't) and that I was just trying to make them look guilty

Furthermore and less strongly, you've acted like you do when the pressure is on you and absolutely need to get it off your back, being less... Linkle-y and a fair bit more condescending Just my take on it though, sorry friend.

My fourth suspect is the person I targeted last night, of course. For a variety of reasons, I have grounds to believe they would at least attempt to get someone to neutralize me somehow, or more likely, being an important player, to get someone to defend them from night actions. If questioned, I will reveal who it is and what my power is, but Town should absolutely avoid doing that, and I will suspect anyone who does, as well.

If there was to be a fifth scum member or one of my current ones were to be wrong, my final suspect would be Tri Force by virtue of being a crowd follower and laying low when they have been relatively outspoken before, to the point we let him get lynched in another game as he was sorta being a liability lol, so.

For the other less active people, including newbies, I'd have to go back and read your posts more carefully. They haven't been a priority given their newbieness.

Other people

DLR: for the record, you were never on my radar even though I tried to put pressure in you, I made this clear early on, and you still aren't since you don't seem to be intentionally trying to get me lynched or anything of the sort and haven't triggered my scumflags.

Everyone knows role selection is random. Anything is possible, and not to mention this is a 5/5 bastard game. This is a very weak defense.

Role selection, maybe? Alignment selection, very doubtful, especially knowing who the GMs are.
Also, "everyone"? Definitely not. Speaking of weak defenses, including such generalizations from someone who kinda sorta screwed up the Mason rules in his last game...

Everyone knows role selection is random. Anything is possible, and not to mention this is a 5/5 bastard game. This is a very weak defense.

Role selection, maybe? Alignment selection, very doubtful, especially knowing who the GMs are.
Also, "everyone"? Definitely not. Speaking of weak defenses, including such generalizations from someone who kinda sorta screwed up the Mason rules in his last game...

1) If it turns out that the GMs chose the mafia themselves then that's wrong and is basically against the rules of the game.

2) Yes, everyone. It's quite obviously random.

3) What does that have to do with this game? No need to be a dick in your quest to convince us you're not scum.

1) is it? I don't think there's a rule against the GMs manually choosing who is Mafia and who is Town on ZU. Admittedly the GM guide, I've only skimmed through before.

2) going off the above, the fact that I don't know something that "should" be obvious when there is no strong hint about it on ZU's rules from what I've seen should tell you that the generalization is pretty bad

3) Eh, am I really being any more of a dick than I usually am already? (I'm actually a bit of a grump this morning, apologies if I'm coming off as worse than usual)
4) forgot :v

So that being said, I'm going to join with the wagon first off and [vote]Froyo[/vote]. Also Froyo to answer your question I shall refer you to above. I have pegged four people who I believe scummy, one of which was you lol.

Next up, the reason I said the Mason - if there is one - should come forward is due to weak Mason recruiters die if the target a Mafia member. If the mason knows who they targeted, having that knowledge would be beneficial for the town and weeding out the scum. Also, now that I've made that huge ass information dump post (you're fucking welcome everyone, please read it for once), I would like to hear people thought's on my analysis so I can know if I'm wasting my time this game doing these fucking things for everybody.

Don't worry, I appreciate your post.

Posts like that help set up the "town" (ie. the uninformed majority) for a productive day, and a town without anything like it is generally in a bad position.

1) I didn't paint the target on your back, you did by talking in ways that could make anyone (*cough*me*cough*) believe you are in fact a night vig looking for who to kill :V Since two people died at the start of the day, I saw no alternative other than someone with a night kill ability killing an extra person, and the most likely case was you, and knowing why you killed one of them is important? Lol, the mafia would also catch the hint that you were a night vig, so it's not as though *I* outed you as one in any case.

Furthermore, read my reply to DLR about backtracking once I realized Kaylin might have died on her own. You're kinda making a show out of something I realized on my own so, uh. Lmao.

On the second point, do you seriously find it so hard to believe that someone who gets along with others and is on a similar timezone in a game they're sorta out there in terms of timezones (meaning they'd be on roughly the same and get along sufficiently well to talk a lot), would target them to invite them into a secret Mason chat? I... Don't, to put it simply And likewise, the fact that the two of them have acted scummy (not talking to each other directly in-game, having general crowd-following votes...) doesn't paint them any better in my head. If you can't see that, that's on you unfortunately.

Also I find it amusing how everyone seems to ignore that I didn't vote for Pav just for being him, lol. I was looking into everyone who made a vote for me on a whim and was following the crowd to lay low; if you read the post I ultimately could not send yesterday, I said I was keeping an eye on Tri Force (who was acting mostly the same way as Pavlova with slightly more posts) and changed my vote to Bolero (who quickly changed his vote to me as soon as people started voting for him for not voting for anyone...). So it's not limited to a single person.

I very, very, very highly doubt they would put me with three Mafia and ZU newbies on a game with much, much more experienced folks. There'd be something seriously messed up about that matchup.

No, you made the accusation. Even if it was, on the off hand, a hint (Note: last time I checked, Linkle wasn't such a careless player), it was you who broadcast it to everybody.

That's... not a very good way to choose who to invite. I've been a recruiter before, and I always considered it more important to grab a good player than a close one. Sometimes these line up, but for many this is not the case.

Role assignment is random. GMs will never give or not give certain roles to certain people based off how new or good they are.