Fano:And is there any reason the cost keeps skyrocketing? at UVa I could say that the pharoahs of old had nothing on college presidents, always building something new whether it was needed or not.

If you can charge whatever you want for something and someone will still buy it, then you're going to charge whatever you can until people stop buying it. They have zero incentive to lower their prices as long as there is a profit. Supply and demand is a biatch.

lennavan: "States fixing their budgets by giving less and less tax dollars to the Universities."

So... their budget problems go back to at least 1988 and were uncorrelated to economic conditions?I think you'd have a hard time showing that the delta between current and historical funding levels even roughly matches the delta between current and his historical tuitions.

Harvardling and Yalie in the men's room. The Yalie just walks out after taking a leak. The Harvardling calls to him to stop. "At Harvard," he says unctuously, "we are taught to wash our hands after a bathroom break."

Yalie turns to leave but pauses to reply, "At Yale, we're taught not to pee on our hands."

[Old jokes are the best. You've heard that one 10 times? 20? More than 50?]

ringersol:lennavan: "States fixing their budgets by giving less and less tax dollars to the Universities."

So... their budget problems go back to at least 1988 and were uncorrelated to economic conditions?I think you'd have a hard time showing that the delta between current and historical funding levels even roughly matches the delta between current and his historical tuitions.

Dwindling appropriations aren't the only reason tuition costs are rising, but they're the primary driving force. The graph below, also from the college board, plots state changes in state spending on higher-ed (in blue) against changes in tuition (in orange). There's a pretty clear trend: When budgets get stingier, costs for students go up.

About 48 percent of employed U.S. college graduates are in jobs that the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) suggests requires less than a four-year college education.Eleven percent of employed college graduates are in occupations requiring more than a high-school diploma but less than a bachelor's, and 37 percent are in occupations requiring no more than a high-school diploma;

The proportion of overeducated workers in occupations appears to have grown substantially; in 1970, fewer than one percent of taxi drivers and two percent of firefighters had college degrees, while now more than 15 percent do in both jobs;

About five million college graduates are in jobs the BLS says require less than a high-school education;Comparing average college and high-school earnings is highly misleading as a guide for vocational success, given high college-dropout rates and the fact that overproduction of college graduates lowers recent graduate earnings relative to those graduating earlier;

Not all colleges are equal: Typical graduates of elite private schools make more than graduates of flagship state universities, but those graduates do much better than those attending relatively non-selective institutions;

Not all majors are equal: Engineering and economics graduates, for example, typically earn almost double what social work and education graduates receive by mid-career;

Past and projected future growth in college enrollments and the number of graduates exceeds the actual or projected growth in high-skilled jobs, explaining the development of the underemployment problem and its probable worsening in future years;

Rising college costs and perceived declines in economic benefits may well lead to declining enrollments and market share for traditional schools and the development of new methods of certifying occupation competence.

Just go to a state school and be smart and work hard and be the boss of people with ivy league degrees. Tell them you paid $40,000 for your education and now you make more than them, so not only do you make more than them, your school is paid off so while all of their money goes toward loan interest while your money goes to fun things. And though you shouldn't tell them, feel a softness in your heart while thinking about how hard they have to work while you're Farking away. It's easy! Come to my seminaaa.

Nice one Yale prez...I went to a small private school a stone's throw from Yale and even had some Yale instructors in some of my courses. They were some of the worst instructors I ever had. Married (and divorced) a Yale grad. My dad was laid off by them. At least my old landlord tried to redeem Yale by being a pretty good guy, but I fear that is more the exception and not the rule.

So needless to say, Yale doesn't impress me at all. It's all about $$ and connections.

GodComplex:Fano: And is there any reason the cost keeps skyrocketing? at UVa I could say that the pharoahs of old had nothing on college presidents, always building something new whether it was needed or not.

If you can charge whatever you want for something and someone will still buy it, then you're going to charge whatever you can until people stop buying it. They have zero incentive to lower their prices as long as there is a profit. Supply and demand is a biatch.

It's even worse than that. Because of the structure of our financing system (loans and grants), the upfront cost for students is often zero, meaning that they're not making decisions based on price. Take and 18-year-old with no sense of personal finance (which is basically every 18-year-old) and offer them a choice between a college offering dorm living, a central cafeteria, and a 30-year-old gym or a college offering student apartments, eating options (caf or restaurants) in every apartment building, and a brand new gym. Which do you think they'll choose? The nice one, obviously, and they won't even notice or care that it will cost $2,000/semester more than the other school.

In other words, because of the financing structure, colleges are actually incentivized to spend MORE money on amenities, increasing the cost without increasing the value of the education.

meddleRPI:Fano: And is there any reason the cost keeps skyrocketing? at UVa I could say that the pharoahs of old had nothing on college presidents, always building something new whether it was needed or not.

Yep. Build build build. Charge charge charge.

They put up a $180 million or whatever shopping center at Hydraulic & 29 in a period of 6 months, but they can't renovate a campus building in 5 years for less than $90 million?

I would like to see where that money actually goes.I'd wager a 5 spot that it goes directly back into "The Program" and very little of it benefits the academic facilities.However I would guess that having a bowl winning team helps to increase popularity amoung non athletic students.

I think that's a really good point, I just don't think it's a big factor in tuition prices. It goes all the way up the degree ladder too. I have a friend with a PhD and three years post-doctoral experience doing a job that I have taught high school kids to do. She's doing the equivalent of science nerd grunt work. They demand a PhD + experience because they can.

inglixthemad:Second is the fact that we view trades as lesser work nowadays. Laugh, but anyone who makes it to master any trade is probably as smart as that doctor performing surgery.

I'm not one of those people but I completely agree with you. I had a discussion with a guy once (he was a financial consultant) about how his job was way more important than a plumber - he adds value to a company, what value does a plumber add? I told him I didn't know and I'd think about it while I went to take a piss.

fireclown:Fano: And is there any reason the cost keeps skyrocketing? at UVa I could say that the pharoahs of old had nothing on college presidents, always building something new whether it was needed or not.

The reason is that when they raise prices, various governments respond with more subsidies, loans, grants, and whatnots. There isn't much in the way of downward pressure on prices.

I'm calling BS, most states have seriously curtailed college funding since the crash of 2008.

yakmans_dad:Rapmaster2000: Sir, you have the boorish manners of a Yalie.

Harvardling and Yalie in the men's room. The Yalie just walks out after taking a leak. The Harvardling calls to him to stop. "At Harvard," he says unctuously, "we are taught to wash our hands after a bathroom break."

Yalie turns to leave but pauses to reply, "At Yale, we're taught not to pee on our hands."

[Old jokes are the best. You've heard that one 10 times? 20? More than 50?]

HaywoodJablonski:In my opinion, there has to be a reckoning at some point. Eventually enough people will realize a 4-year bachelors at Ivy U isn't worth $400k(is this the max?) of debt

The reckoning is currently happening in the Ivy leagues and began many years ago. Harvard decided tuition dollars were a negligible source of income for them, so they have spectacular financial aid.

If your parents make $65,000 a year or less, you attend completely free.If your parents are making $150,000 a year, you qualify for a $40,000 a year scholarship.If your parents are making $250,000 a year, you still qualify for a small scholarship.

Harvard considers $250,000 a year or less financial hardship. Harvard went first years ago, now the other Ivy league schools are following suit so they can still try to compete.

lennavan:HaywoodJablonski: In my opinion, there has to be a reckoning at some point. Eventually enough people will realize a 4-year bachelors at Ivy U isn't worth $400k(is this the max?) of debt

The reckoning is currently happening in the Ivy leagues and began many years ago. Harvard decided tuition dollars were a negligible source of income for them, so they have spectacular financial aid.

If your parents make $65,000 a year or less, you attend completely free.If your parents are making $150,000 a year, you qualify for a $40,000 a year scholarship.If your parents are making $250,000 a year, you still qualify for a small scholarship.

Harvard considers $250,000 a year or less financial hardship. Harvard went first years ago, now the other Ivy league schools are following suit so they can still try to compete.

That's great that Harvard does that. But many other schools need to do the same for there to be a noticeable push down on actual costs/loans for the students.

Has anyone else here had 'vet' recent college grad resumes for job openings? I did it a few times (we used a sorting system where you went through the pile and gave them a numerical rating is categories. Top scorers were asked in for interviews)

If I looked at your courses and you had lots of the 'studies' courses or even worse a major in something like that then you're off to the bottom of the pile -- no interview for you.

// And yes we would collect the doozies and pass them around to people for laughs

HaywoodJablonski:lennavan: HaywoodJablonski: In my opinion, there has to be a reckoning at some point. Eventually enough people will realize a 4-year bachelors at Ivy U isn't worth $400k(is this the max?) of debt

The reckoning is currently happening in the Ivy leagues and began many years ago. Harvard decided tuition dollars were a negligible source of income for them, so they have spectacular financial aid.

If your parents make $65,000 a year or less, you attend completely free.If your parents are making $150,000 a year, you qualify for a $40,000 a year scholarship.If your parents are making $250,000 a year, you still qualify for a small scholarship.

Harvard considers $250,000 a year or less financial hardship. Harvard went first years ago, now the other Ivy league schools are following suit so they can still try to compete.

That's great that Harvard does that. But many other schools need to do the same for there to be a noticeable push down on actual costs/loans for the students.

Your post was about Ivy League schools. I told you what the Ivy League schools are doing. See for instance Harvard, or this article about Yale University or the president of Yale arguing the exact same thing you are. I think you have a great point but Ivy league schools are about the only example where you're wrong, so I have no idea why you'd shiat all over them. I was guessing it was just because you didn't know. Now you know. I don't know what more you want the Ivy leagues schools to do.

Has anyone else here had 'vet' recent college grad resumes for job openings? I did it a few times (we used a sorting system where you went through the pile and gave them a numerical rating is categories. Top scorers were asked in for interviews)

If I looked at your courses and you had lots of the 'studies' courses or even worse a major in something like that then you're off to the bottom of the pile -- no interview for you.

// And yes we would collect the doozies and pass them around to people for laughs

I do a lot of recruiting/hiring for my job and do pretty much the same thing.

I take it a step further and promote those who worked 10-20 hours a week while taking classes and also those whose resume's are very well put together. If you have any typos or misspelled words, that's a big red flag.

Finally, even though I'm an Ivy grad, I prefer to hire strong candidates from state schools since their work ethic and lack of sense of entitlement usually translate into better employees and (yes) future leaders