"but as far as I know, there are no eVnet jackets available with pit zips."

Brad,I learned yesterday that Integral Designs will make their eVENT jackets with pit zips. Reference this email from them:

"We do make eVent rain jackets with pit zips for people from time to time, and there is of course an associated extra cost. We do happen to have one here at the moment, it is Green size Large. Would you be interested in this jacket?

I already got my eVENT jacket by Teva with huge pit zips for $50 (they are gone now), and I have TNF DIAD, and Columbia Goretex, all bought at big discounts, so I can not justify another jacket. If you can afford it, place a special order.. or watch the 'Gear Deals' and 'Gear Swap' forums here..-Brett.

Re: Re: Re: I agree with Dale about the poncho
on 11/07/2006 01:12:01 MST

I've used their silCape. I have the larger one which is somewhat sufficient for covering most or all of a pack. It's quite light - ID says 5oz, but i'm guessing that is the weight of the smaller size.

I find it gives less coverage than a poncho or poncho-tarp. Despite my diminutive stature, a lot of my legs are exposed, unlike with a standard PT, where only half or nearly all of my gaiter-covered calves are exposed.

Also, i'm not real happy with how it drapes over the arms when using trekking poles. I think i'd like to add some snaps or other appropriate fasteners(???) to try to make it a little more poncho-ish.

Jury is still out on this one. As an exercise in how light (and how little volume) can i go, it serves its purpose.

This is just my take. DrJ apparently really likes his though (he's mentioned it elsewhere in another Post), so take my negative comments with a grain of salt.

Please don't misunderstand, i'm not anti-ID (cf. my many other posts praising their products). I really like their silPoncho - next to the SMD Gatewood cape, it's my favorite piece of rain gear.

I have a simplistic narrow minded myoptic approach to wet weather gear . . . GORTEX and ONLY Gortex. It works just fine and dandy for me so I never bother with any other product (though I do wonder which ones are as good).

If conditions are humid or you have too much insulation or are a sweaty person like me you'll get wet.

I like the idea of being a little too cool while walking better then being a little too hot.

All these comments have been very helpful. The eVENT jacket sounds like it might just be the (pricey) ticket for really deflecting rain. The pit zip issue is perplexing. I've never zipped the pit zips in my Precip jacket because I need/want the ventilation. But heat rises, right? Pit zips are under the arms. How much heat and water vapor really get out and how much cool air really comes in? In other words, with something as fabulous-sounding as eVENT fabric, are the pit zips expendable?

Pit zips work-- any venting helps. Your motion moves the air around. Heat rises, but hiking with your arms swinging will move a lot of air in and out of your shell. If you can free the bottom hem (as in no waist belt), you can get a real breeze going.

Somebody here or on the backpacking gear test organization did a test with different rain gear. He wore the same wicking undershirt and went for a long run, weighing the shirt before and after to see how much moisture accumulated in the shirt with a particular garment. The factor that made the different was venting. Breathable fabrics made a difference, but were all paled by simply opening pit zips, vented back cowls, etc.

My armchair estimation of effective fabrics go from membrane stuff like Gore-Tex to eVENT style fabrics to micro-porous coatings to fully coated fabrics with silnylon or polyurethane. Any or all of the above could have a mix of physical features to help vent and improve the feel of the garment in use: pit zips, pocket vents, front or rear cowl vents, hem and waist drawstrings, and Velcro-adjustable cuffs. And you get the factors of weight, cost and durability in the mix too. Makes it fun to pick something that works when you are picking $100-$200+ garments, eh?

The forums appear to have generated a bit of interest in an eVent jacket with pit zips, so if we receive sufficient orders we may be doing a special run of them in December. If you are interested in placing an order, the cost would be US$30 extra so a total of US$250.

My size XL packs down to a 4" x 6" roll, it weighs a liitle under 1#. To compare my size large Patagonia Rain Shadow packs down about an inch smaller. I'm not rolling the beans out of these, a little loose.I use a OR Seattle Sombrero or the older Sitka Sombrero.The Gill and most cycling style jackets are cut with longer tails to protect your back when bent over which I find nice {I'm long waisted }. I think performance bike has this jacket and they have a store in Puget Sound where you could try one for fit. E-mail me an address and I'll send you mine to play with. Performance has this jacket on sale for $119.00 in limited sizes. I will be honest that the ID might be a better cut for wearing with a pack for you. This is why I think you should try one on.

I agree with Dale and the others who suggest using a poncho. In extreme wet and cold down to freezing I have had the best results with a poncho over a w/b jacket. These days I use a cape because it forms a cone instead of a flapping envelope and stays down without messing with a waist strap while wearing a pack. The cape - or poncho- covers the gap between the pack and my back - a major point of water intrusion and of condensation. The jacket keeps my arms from getting soaked - especially when using poles. For the jacket, I have gotten away from the high dollar stuff and use a cheap Durafab jacket with an extended "skirt" to my knees.7 ounces. Durafab is the most breathable stuff I have ever used. Not for bushwhacking, though.

All I used was army ponchos for twenty years. For general backpacking and camping, IMO they are superior. They are cheaper, they actually are more airy than rainsuits made of any material, Gore Tex, eVENT, whatever. When you push it hard on the trail, you are going to sweat like a pig no matter what you do and with rainsuits, its harder to stay "aired out" on the trail.

For me, I found Gore Tex rainsuit to be particularly intolerable during the rains in the hot summer. Id rather have a poncho.

Another advantage of a good poncho is that you dont have to carry a waterproof pack cover. You just throw the thing over the top of your pack and walk. That saves a little weight.

When buying ponchos, avoid the ones made out of vinyl...they are waterproof but cheap and tear easily, as well as uncomfortable next to the skin. The vinyl ones are OK for stationary camping, but not backpacking.

I just wish the US military still issued a poncho like they used to issue...they had like a rubber type coating on them...they were awesome...best poncho ever made. Probably a little heavy by UL standards, but those things worked.

I dont have a clue what modern brands of ponchos are really waterproof versus "water repellant" or "water resistant." Vinyly is waterproof, but those are the cheapo crap ponchos you dont want to buy. You want one that is totally waterproof...non-breathable, but of good quality.

Good poncho plus Gore Tex lined boots is a good combination for walking.

Re: Re: Re: I agree with Dale about the poncho
on 11/21/2006 20:58:22 MST

For cold wet weather, what might work well for a backpacker is layers of wool clothing wool long underwear, wool pants and wool shirt, wool socks, Gore Tex bootliners in your boots.

Or you could go synthetic long underwear (polypro, capilene, etc.) if you cant stand wool next to your skin. And then wear wool pants and a wool shirt over the top of the synthetic long underwear.

If it suddenly warms up, you stop and take a break and change clothes. Remove the long underwear and just go with the wool pants and long sleeved shirt, unbuttoned for more ventilation.

Then throw a poncho over all of it for rain, sleet, freezing rain or wet snow.

One thing about that "Lighten Up" book by Don Ladigen I dont agree with is how he dismisses wool clothing for cold weather. Especially cold, wet climates like on the East coast. Yeah, wool is heavier than synthetics, but the stuff works better at keeping you warm in bad situations.

If you have to hike (especially uphill) in very wet conditions, you're going to get wet from perspiration, poncho or jacket. The argument has raged for years and still baffles me. In some conditions, you just ... get ... wet.

I thought I'd dredge up this old thread that I started a year ago when I was new to BPL to report on the great success I've had with my new arrangement. Especially since there's another, current thread discussing rain jackets.

Yesterday I was again in 5-6 hours of steady rain and drizzle, about 2200' elevation gain, 35-40 degrees. I wore the same Montbell rain pants and the same long-sleeved Smartwool shirt, but this time I wore an ID eVENT rain jacket. There was a World of Difference. I was comfortable, warm, and dry on the whole trip. The small amount of perspiration quickly dissipated.

I did take an interim step, though, and bought the Montbell Peak rain jacket early last spring. It is an excellent rain jacket with very good breathability. The Peak is much better than the Precip which couldn't begin to hold a candle to it. Then I had an opportunity to buy the eVENT jacket secondhand, so throwing frugality and caution to the wind, I bought it.

My personal experience with the ID eVENT jacket on all the day trips and several backpack trips when I needed it, not just with yesterday's trip, is that the eVENT is even better than the Peak. Truly. I've actually posted the Peak for sale on the Gear Swap section (hint, hint).

The lesson I learned here is when dealing with the need for waterproofness as often as I do in the Pacific Northwest, just go for the gold.