Also agreed. He makes a superb SoS and I'd be happy to see him as de facto SoS for the next 3 Democratic administrations but let's not get carried away here and think he has any potential for being a good president

Kerry could pull some of the establishment support away from Hillary, which would help an insurgent like Elizabeth Warren, but I don't see Kerry actually getting the nod. Plus, Kerry and his wind surfing elitism would get absolutely crushed by Christie.

imontheinternet:Kerry could pull some of the establishment support away from Hillary, which would help an insurgent like Elizabeth Warren, but I don't see Kerry actually getting the nod. Plus, Kerry and his wind surfing elitism would get absolutely crushed by Christie.

MindStalker:imontheinternet: Kerry could pull some of the establishment support away from Hillary, which would help an insurgent like Elizabeth Warren, but I don't see Kerry actually getting the nod. Plus, Kerry and his wind surfing elitism would get absolutely crushed by Christie.

There's something funny about imagining Christie wind surfing.

Some poor great white would probably mistake him for an elephant seal.

As much as I hate knowing the GOP has had a playbook on Hillary for a long as time, she's probably got the star power to crank out a win.

Hillz is a decoy. After the right expends itself fighting off her rise, Elizabeth Warren will swoop in, clinch the nomination, and sail to an easy victory over Rubio/Cruz.

I'd be happy seeing a Clinton/Warren ticket... but pushing one female for office of President of the United States would be tough as is, pushing two might scare some of the conservatives that might of voted...

MindStalker:imontheinternet: Kerry could pull some of the establishment support away from Hillary, which would help an insurgent like Elizabeth Warren, but I don't see Kerry actually getting the nod. Plus, Kerry and his wind surfing elitism would get absolutely crushed by Christie.

Markoff_Cheney:MindStalker: imontheinternet: Kerry could pull some of the establishment support away from Hillary, which would help an insurgent like Elizabeth Warren, but I don't see Kerry actually getting the nod. Plus, Kerry and his wind surfing elitism would get absolutely crushed by Christie.

As much as I hate knowing the GOP has had a playbook on Hillary for a long as time, she's probably got the star power to crank out a win.

Hillz is a decoy. After the right expends itself fighting off her rise, Elizabeth Warren will swoop in, clinch the nomination, and sail to an easy victory over Rubio/Cruz.

In 2008, yeah she was a bad candidate, but after her presidential bid and tenure of Secretary of State, and her husband's work with CGI, I think they've rehabilitated their image enough for her to make a serious go at it. At this point, whatever the GOP could throw at her would just energize the left and negate the conservative base, and Hillary could occupy the center against anyone likely to survive the GOP nomination as they're going to have the same problem they did in 2012. I wouldn't mind seeing a three-way primary race between Biden (if he runs, which I doubt) or Kerry, Warren, and Clinton.

Warren would make the perfect 2016 candidate, at least for the primaries to push the field left and to put the fear of God into the GOP. If the Democrats make significant gains in House and Senate come 2014 -- and my money is on them doing it -- the field is pretty well set for a Dean-style 50-state campaign and full-court press come 2016, especially with the first wave of teabagger Senators up for re-election that year. The long-term goal here is to push the Overton window leftwards and make steady gains in the lead-up to 2020, to win thatelection with a wide enough margin to control redistricting.

that bosnian sniper:If the Democrats make significant gains in House and Senate come 2014 -- and my money is on them doing it

House, maybe. If the Democrats continue to run from the ACA, the GOP will clean their clocks.

Senate, the odds are against the Dems making any gains at all. The GOP needs six seats to take the Senate, and there are seven seats with Democratic incumbents that are up for grabs in states that voted for Mitt Romney in 2012.

qorkfiend:that bosnian sniper: If the Democrats make significant gains in House and Senate come 2014 -- and my money is on them doing it

House, maybe. If the Democrats continue to run from the ACA, the GOP will clean their clocks.

Senate, the odds are against the Dems making any gains at all. The GOP needs six seats to take the Senate, and there are seven seats with Democratic incumbents that are up for grabs in states that voted for Mitt Romney in 2012.

Assuming the GOP can pull their heads out of their ass and stem the flow of moderate candidates getting primaried for unelectable buffoons, that is. That may play in safe districts, but the purplish seats are what count and tacking hard right won't work well for the GOP in the current climate -- and if the trend of at least the last two election cycles continue, tack hard right is what the GOP will have to do to continue appeasing their base. The Democrats look to be facing some real mobilization issues come 2014, but all it's going to take to fix that is another Akin or Mourdock (which is likely to happen again).

I'm not talking flip the House, or secure super-majority in the Senate, here. I'm talking a handful of seats in total, which would be enough to push the national narrative leading into 2016 in their favor -- especially since, if the Democrats play it smart and watch polls, turning the election into a referendum on the shutdown, budget ceiling fight(s), and general Republican intransigence is what will happen. Hell, that ad campaign writes itself -- stick Ted Cruz's "filibuster" and creative interpretation of Green Eggs and Ham on prime time every night during October, 2014.

that bosnian sniper:At this point, whatever the GOP could throw at her would just energize the left and negate the conservative base

I'm more comfortable with the idea of Hillary as President now than I was in 2008, but I still don't quite think the above statement is true. I think the Republicans have been itching to go after Hillary for years now and while I think the Republican party is going to have a message control problem (If you thought the Secret Muslim thing was bad, I'm pretty sure "She's a biatch" will be the unofficial Republican motto), I guess I still think that Hillary is a somewhat difficult person to defend by the left. Though Hillary certainly gets a lot of undeserved shiat, I think your namesake is an example of her creating her own shiat for others to throw at her; this goes double for when Bill inevitably gets involved.

But we'll see, I guess. Lucky for Hillary, I think the Republicans are largely going to be distracted by their own primaries that will probably mirror 2012's revolving door of frontrunners.

FeedTheCollapse:that bosnian sniper: At this point, whatever the GOP could throw at her would just energize the left and negate the conservative base

I'm more comfortable with the idea of Hillary as President now than I was in 2008, but I still don't quite think the above statement is true. I think the Republicans have been itching to go after Hillary for years now and while I think the Republican party is going to have a message control problem (If you thought the Secret Muslim thing was bad, I'm pretty sure "She's a biatch" will be the unofficial Republican motto), I guess I still think that Hillary is a somewhat difficult person to defend by the left. Though Hillary certainly gets a lot of undeserved shiat, I think your namesake is an example of her creating her own shiat for others to throw at her; this goes double for when Bill inevitably gets involved.

But we'll see, I guess. Lucky for Hillary, I think the Republicans are largely going to be distracted by their own primaries that will probably mirror 2012's revolving door of frontrunners.

FeedTheCollapse:I'm more comfortable with the idea of Hillary as President now than I was in 2008, but I still don't quite think the above statement is true.

She's far from an ideal candidate -- like I said, I think that would be Warren -- but she'd be a very serious contender. Clinton has more than enough skeletons in her closet to sink her, but thosearen't the ones the Republicans would grasp since they'd erode support from herleft flank rather than energize theright.

Republican strategists would almost certainly take the low road, invoking Whitewater, her association with her husband, and personal attacks, which while energizing the right would prove a losing strategy by causing the left to circle the wagons and energize on their own.Hillary's positioned herself to be an enormous tar baby, especially with the GOP's constant position on women's issues, and as you said the GOP has been dying for a go at her for almost two decade -- which means the low road would be irresistable.

But, like I said, all that's precipitated on the notion the Republicans will continue power-farking the pooch for the foreseeable future. I don't see them doing anything but.Were I a GOP strategist, I'd nail her on her Wal-Mart connections during the early '90s and the Clinton health care plan (the dreaded HMO) to throw the left into disarray -- the name Clinton alone is a mobilization tool for the right flank. Avoid the truly personal shiat, stick to issues and Clinton'sethics. There's no way the left could defend Clinton's ethics without looking a bunch of hypocritical tits.

that bosnian sniper:Clinton has more than enough skeletons in her closet to sink her, but thosearen't the ones the Republicans would grasp since they'd erode support from herleft flank rather than energize theright.

wouldn't that be the point though? I would say that anyone who is that deadset against Hillary was never going to vote for her and probably hasn't voted Democrat anytime recently, if ever. Sinking her in the eyes of people who may even reluctantly vote Hillary, even if it doesn't turn into a Republican vote, is definitely the best strategy for the Republicans. I don't think the Democrats have the luxury to employ a similar strategy.