Ukraine ‘destroys’ Russian military vehicles

Ukrainian military have destroyed a ‘significant’ part of a Russian military column that crossed into the country on Thursday night, the country’s president has claimed.

A Ukrainian military spokesman told journalists that ‘appropriate actions were taken and a part of it no longer exists’. In a statement on his website, President Poroshenko said he had discussed the ‘entry of Russian military machines to the territory of Ukraine’. Commenting on reports of this, the President ‘informed that the given information was trustworthy and confirmed because the majority of that machines had been eliminated by the Ukrainian artillery at night’, the statement said.

Since when has the Ukraine government said anything and it has been the truth? They lost their credibility a long time ago.

Roger Hudson

Still no sign of the MH10 air traffic tapes, why not?

Guest

Western media is reporting this alleged attack on a Russian armored column as uncontested truth. Russia denies any such attack occurred and has characterized the Kiev report as “some kind of fantasy.” To quote from a Russian defence ministry spokesperson: “There was no Russian military column that crossed the Russian-Ukrainian border either at night or during the day.”Given the lies and spin that emanate from Ukrainian sources on a more or less regular basis, you would think self-respecting news outlets would check their sources before releasing the story. Here in Canada both the Toronto Star and the Globe and Mail reported the story as though it was documentary truth.

Wessex Man

The Russians today denied that there were any Russian forces in the Crimera.

mahatmacoatmabag

‘the Russian Empire was having trouble
What a sad, sad story
Needed a new leader to restore
Its former glory
Where, oh, where was he?
Where could that man be?
We looked around and then we found
The man for you and me
Where, oh, where was he?
Where could that man be?
We looked around and then we found
The man for you and me!
LEAD TENOR KGB TROOPER:
And now it’s…
Springtime for Putin and Russia
Moscow is happy and gay!
We’re invading to a faster pace
Look out, here comes the master race!
Springtime for Putin and Russia
Ukraine in a fine mess once more!
Springtime for Putin and Russia
Watch out, Europe
Putin is going on tour!

Roger Hudson

If a real ‘Russian’ Russian ( as opposed to Ukrainian Russian) column had been shelled by Kiev artillery the the long range counter battery fire from Russian territory would have been immediate. Counter battery ranging is easy these days.
This ‘Russian column’ story is very odd, why did Cameron spout off after getting a call from Kiev without checking? He is looking for increased confrontation.

KMS

Seems very difficult to make any sense of what is being said about the Ukrainian situation. Below courtesy of Zero Hedge is an interesting summary

“While today’s trading session was marked by news which at first blush
correlated with what may be the 2014 equivalent of the Archduke Ferdinand
shooting, in retrospect the newsflow made painfully little sense. Let’s
recap:

Yesterday afternoon, two UK reporters working for the Guardian
and Telegraph,
supposedly located by the border in east Ukraine, reported that they were
“eyewitnesses” as
a convoy of military trucks crossed the Russian border into the breakaway
Donetsk republic, aka Ukraine. While there have been photos of the military
trucks that have accompanied the Russian humantiarian convoy on Russian
territory, there has so far been no proof, aside from said eyewitness reports,
confirming Russian military vehicles entered or were in Ukraine.

This morning Ukraine military’s spokesman, Andriy Lysenko, shocked the world
when newswires reported that Ukraine forces had attacked an armed convoy from
Russia, and
“destroyed” a part of it. This was subsequently reiterated by the president
of Ukraine himself who
said that “the given information was trustworthy and confirmed because the
majority of that machines had been eliminated by the Ukrainian artillery at
night”, and by the secretary-general of NATO, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, who said
that the alliance had detected an “incursion” of vehicles from Russia last
night, adding that “what we have seen last night is the continuation of what we
have seen for some time.” Alas, as in the case above, just more verbal reports,
with zero actual evidence.

Shortly thereafter, Russia
responded when the Russian defense ministry said that there was no Russian
military column that crossed into Eastern Ukraine, and that the above reports
are based on “some fantasies.”

This is where the breakdown of logic occurs, because for Russia to make such
a formal statement it clearly implies that Russia believes
there is no evidence of destruction of a Russian convoy in Ukraine
territory, something which obviously would exist if indeed as Ukraine’s
president had claimed, the “majority of the machines had been
eliminated.”

If true, it also implies that either Ukraine had fabricated the entire story,
and certainly the part about the destruction of the convoy and by extension that
Russians had ever entered into East Ukraine. Furthermore, that would also
suggest that the reports of the British reporters were also a fabrication.

Unless, of course, there is evidence, in which case
the credibility of the both the Guardian and Telegraph reporters can be
preserved, Ukraine can not be accused of fabricating a story to suit what some
may say its own warmongering ambitions, and the onus is on Russia to explain why
it lied about there being no invasion.

More to the point, the onus is on Ukraine to present some evidence, in fact
any evidence, of a destroyed Russian military convoy instead of merely building
upon a story conceived by the two UK media outlets, because if Ukraine indeed
has no evidence, then its story falls apart and what’s worse, the credibility
and reputation of its government, of NATO and certainly of the UK press would be
in tatters.

So what other possibility is there? Well, one that is all too unpalatable for
Ukraine, namely that in its excitement to blow something up, it may have well
destroyed some of its own military vehicles. A possible lead to such a turn of
events comes from this
Interfax report citing the leadership of the breakaway Donetsk People’s
Republic.

The leadership of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic has dismissed
the Ukrainian government’s statement on destroying a convoy of what appeared to
be Russian armored vehicles in eastern Ukraine.

“We haven’t received any armored vehicles from Russia. No Russian units,
including Russian armored vehicles, have crossed the border. Hence, no Russian
armored vehicles could have been destroyed,” DPR First Deputy Prime Minister
Andrei Purgin told Interfax on Friday evening.

“A lot of Ukrainian armored vehicles were destroyed today, 7 at one
place, 12 at another. And the same all over the DPR territory. A total of about
100 of them,” Purgin said.

The implication is clear: while 100 or so Ukraine armored vehicles may or may
not have been destroyed, one wonders if indeed the Ukraine army was responsible
in “aiding” the separatists with what would appear to be a friendly-fire
incident?

But perhaps the most damning evidence comes from none other than the White
House itself, which according to CNN just admitted that while it accuses Moscow
of “incursions” it can’t
confirm the convoy was destroyed by Kiev.

Perhaps for the simplest reason that there is no evidence to help with the
confirmation process?

Which is rather unpleasant, because as explained above, without
confirmation of a destroyed convoy, the whole story falls apart as merely yet
another unprecedented warmongering fabrication, one involving not only the Kiev
regime, but NATO and the UK press as well!

What is worse, is that if indeed the specter arises that Ukraine is lying
about an event that nearly gave the market a heart attack on the belief that a
new international war involving Russia may be about to break out, was Ukraine
also lying about flight MH-17. And else may the Kiev regime been lying about?”

lgrundy

As far as the present crisis is concerned, if a Ukrainian’s lips are moving, the chances are he’s lying.
If these nasty, EU-backed fanatics in Kiev don’t stop telling lies they’ll have the whole world in flames.

Terence Hale

Hi,
In normal life politicians become millionaires, when a millionaire becomes a politician one must be careful.

kyalami

Putin sends his Potemkin aid relief convoy in one direction while subverting Ukraine elsewhere. Any conjurer could tell you it’s simple misdirection.

https://sites.google.com/site/deanjackson60/home Dean Jackson

For those uninformed, which the media does its best work at, most of the Ukrainian Army is in Syria and Iraq posing as the masked Islamic State combatants, meaning (1) there was no Russian incursion into eastern Ukraine; and (2) Russia only intervened in Crimea and sent Spetsnaz into eastern Ukraine posing as Ukrainian “separatists” in order to assist Kiev re-establish Communist control of the nation, which was lost due to the weakened security situation, where most Ukrainian troops were out of country. That’s why hundreds of hated statues of Lenin came tumbling down last January/February,* as Ukrainians took advantage of the weakened Communist security apparatus throughout the nation and rebelled.
____________________
*Monuments to Lenin that were supposed to have been toppled back in early 1992 IF the collapse of the USSR had been real, and not the obvious strategic ruse it was.

Roger Hudson

What about the statue of Bandera ? Near Lviv (or Lvov or Lemberg), the hometown of Stanislav Ulam, joint father of the Hydrogen bomb.

https://sites.google.com/site/deanjackson60/home Dean Jackson

“What about the statue of Bandera ?”

What about it?

bengeo

“Russia’s Defense Ministry has denied Kiev’s report that it ‘destroyed the Russian military column’ which allegedly crossed into Ukraine, saying that no such column ever existed.

‘No Russian military column that allegedly crossed the Russian-Ukrainian border at night or during the day ever existed,’ said Major General Igor Konashenkov, a spokesman for the Russian Defense Ministry.”

https://sites.google.com/site/deanjackson60/home Dean Jackson

“No Russian military column that allegedly crossed the Russian-Ukrainian border at night or during the day ever existed,’ said Major General Igor Konashenkov”

And he’s telling the truth. See my comment just above yours for the rest of the story…

Radford_NG

Once again Enoch was right.He said once a Power had gained the West it would then left wheel and attack Russia.

Roger Hudson

Eastern Ukraine must be a terrible place to fight battles at night, they all have the same make of vehicles , weapons and uniforms.
The first casualty , truth, died weeks ago. We are now in the fog from which only propaganda emerges. Believe nothing until a long time has gone by without contradiction.

Jackthesmilingblack

Beware of Russians bearing gifts.

Wessex Man

Beware Cath Ashton bearing bribes!

saffrin

That Russian military column was the Russian aid convoy parked-up where the Ukraine’s told them to.
Shelled by artillery fire, onto prearranged coordinates.
Putin can’t win with the lies spun by the west.
God help us come winter when we’re all expecting there to be gas we can turn on..

HookesLaw

I recall reading a few days back that the energy companies had been busy advance buying gas.

saffrin

We’ll know if that’s true if all the local storage tanks are showing three tires or more.

Wessex Man

erm, no it wasn’t, that’s still there, the convoy destroyed was observed including armoured vehicles by western Journalists and UN Observers entering the eastern borders of Ukraine shortly thereafter destroyed.

Whilst not sticking up for the corrupt out of control Ukranians, I don’t stick up for the corrupt out of control Russians either. They are both as bad as each other but the Ukraines are painted in the light of the oppresssed because the corrupt EU supports them.

Roger Hudson

Western journalists who can’t produce any evidence, not a single blurry snap.

Wessex Man

Can you produce evidence to the contrary?

Roger Hudson

A photograph of something not happening is an logical impossibility.
It is now monday and there has still been no evidence of Kiev’s shelling of a Russian convoy. Why did the PM and Def.Sec. come out with statements on just the word of one man, without supporting evidence?

R.Bender

Just google Ukraine Blogs.. there is a chap there with pictures, co-ordinates maps … all the evidence you need. So I suppose people must be led to believe that the Russians are using tanks to supply aid to Ukraine.. Russians are liars and do not stick to agreements they only use them to make others weak.

HookesLaw

Yes. More to follow. Personally whilst hoping this convoy has been destroyed…. Putin says it did not exist in the first place.

NickyGee

Here is an article that compares the military capability of Ukraine, the United States and Russia:

In 1994, Ukraine gave up its massive supply of nuclear weapons in return for a promise of military security.

swatnan

Ukraine is playing a dangerous game by upping the stakes and trying tomwin sympathy when it should be negotiating greater autonomy for E Ukraine.

Blindsideflanker

Why, the Russians have stated that there are not Russian troops in Ukraine, therefore the people they hit must have been the rebels , unless Putin is telling porkies, but then he can’t admit it. If so that must really pee him off.

McRobbie

Putin speaks….putin lies.

Wessex Man

Everything is fishy in that part of the world, where do you think the EU Commissioners learnt their trade?

rollahardsix

Ukrainian forces opened fire on a foreign military force that had crossed into its sovereign territory illegally. In what possible understanding of the English language can that be considered as ‘playing a dangerous game’? Either Ukraine fought this convoy at the border or it waited till the convoy reached rebel positions and then fought it… In war you take your opportunities before your enemy can take theirs, all the more so when you are being invaded.

saffrin

OK, so let’s wait and see how that attitude worked out next spring when you find you’ve run out of furniture to burn.

the viceroy’s gin

I believe someone referenced that as Generals Janvier and Fevrier taking the field, and campaigning .

Kennybhoy

Fair comment…

Roger Hudson

The British journalist ‘witnesses’ of incursion did’t take a single sneaky cellphone picture? no ‘selfie’ with an APC ? I find the whole story very fishy.

Roger Hudson

No evidence of any kind backing up claim of attack, why?
Evidence of an international invasion is the sort of thing I would think they would want to take to the UN, why nothing in this case?

pearlsandoysters

…one Ukranian president obviously seeks to initiate a massive assets sale and is least concenered with the state-building & nation emerging. To paraphrase a famous quote: “State? What state?” followed by “it’s all about personal monetary gain stupid!”.

Curnonsky

This must have made more sense in the original Russian. Have you tried Google Translate?

pearlsandoysters

Most definitely! If one follows the money, there’s no need for google translate whatsoever. By all standards, Ukraine is a failed state and there’s no a glimmer of hope that it’ll become a proper nation state in any foreseeable future. Contemporary instrumental conception of government really works for “mature democracies” which can not be said about newly emerging nation states. The problem is that modern liberal democracy has not been a tool to build a nation state; normally monarchs & elites would build the state with most ruthless means available. The universal suffrage is quite a recent invention, introduced merely a century or so ago. Democracy is not a commodity for export, all attempts to “google translate it” are bound to fail. The oligarchs simply don’t care about either states or nations, they want profit & they want it now.

the viceroy’s gin

…and if you can’t believe a Ukrainian oligarch, who can you believe?

pearlsandoysters

Grand comment! The politics is all about ambiguity & delusion with lofty ideals thrown in for a good measure. Chocolate kings can only think in terms of profit; it’s blindingly obvious that a Ukranian oligarch is million light years far from either statesmanship or any proper political convictions. It’s very deplorable that nations that seek mature democracy fall the prey to corporate interests.

Ordinaryman

I didn’t realise we had Ukranian oligarchs in Westminster!

Barakzai

A massive ‘aid’ convoy in one direction. Russian interlopers ‘destroyed’. Unfortunately, brinkmanship however calibrated in Kiev and Moscow assuredly will be overtaken by the unexpected on the front-line; it’s not as if ample warning of aggressive hotheads wasn’t evident in the Crimea manoeuvres . . .

Ashton reached her level of competence training social workers in the early 80′s

HookesLaw

Many of the ‘aid convoys’ vehicles are empty apparently. Looks like Russia does not have much aid to give.

The Times reports that Russias largest oil company wants $45 billion in aid from the Russian govt. Other companies are desperatre for bail outs as well. Russia is the same hollow shell it has always been.
If someone from UKIP can quote Hitler then lets remember probably the only true thing he ever said. “We have only to kick in the front door and the whole rotten Russian edifice will come tumbling down.”

Er, the Russian edifice didn’t come tumbling down. They beat the Nazis.
.
And history has also shown that one of the best ways to beat an economic downturn is to start a war, which automatically rallies the people to your side.
.
Putin may now just have his excuse….

HookesLaw

See my point above. I think you are wrong about your history of economics.

Kennybhoy

Are you pissed…?

Wessex Man

I think you are wrong about everything Hooky, you are like a broken record concerning UKip, the Article in your Bible the Mail on Sunday as usual bore little resemblance to the facts when it comes to the MoS and Ukip.

You should be proud that the Mail and MoS’s treatment of Ukip, it’s almost Pravada like but that’s how you like it.

The British people saw through the smears thrown at Ukip prior to the Euro elections and will see through them at the GE.

David Booth.

That Russian front door certainly swung back with a bang on Berlin 1945!

HookesLaw

Oh yes I know that – but the fact was the Russian Army crumbled and so did the satellite soviet states. Hitler and the Germans (or should we just call then nazis) treated the Ukranians and others as untermench instead of realising they hated the Russians and making them allies – so they became guerillas.
Perhaps fortunately for the future of civilisation Hitler trusted his own instincts instead of the logic of his generals
Having quoted the one true thing Hitler said I can quote one of the dumbest ”My generals know nothing of economics”

Kennybhoy

Hookey. Is this really you? This reads like something that loon Lindsay would write…?

the viceroy’s gin

You EUSSR nutters will find out about economics, laddie, when the Ukrainian oligarchs look for their 100B bailout from you clueless dolts.

Wessex Man

You do know how true your words are don’t you? it turns out that the good old EUSSR was throwing millions at the Ukrainain rebels before they overthrew the elected government.