So obviously no-one in Tivo HQ is monitoring the provided service. Or if they are, then this should have been spotted and actioned long before this stage or an announcement should have been made sooner.

As it stands, we get a belated announcement blaming everyone but themselves and refusing to fix the issue. I thought Tivo wrote the software for our boxes?

Cheers,
Mike

From my experience of such things, the length of time between the issue being first reported and TiVoPony making his announcement is entirely consistent with how long it would take to identify the problem, figure out any possible solutions, weigh up the cost/benefits of them, and ultimately make a decision.

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Everyone else in this thread is clearly a committed current Tivo user who wants to see the service continue as it is.

But you on the other hand have already deserted to another product and are smugly telling us we should not have expected the full Tivo service to last any longer from the security of feeling that you have invested in the more recent and current Windows MCE PVR platform.

To my mind your continued participation in this thread (especially making the kind of pro Tivo management comments you are making) in those circumstances amounts to little more than bear baiting.

I thank you for your excellent work in inventing Endpad, Tracker, the rc.sysinit file editor and many other things but I really don't see what your continued defence of the Tivo management's position in this particular thread is really likely to achieve?

As to not feeling angry I expect there were plenty of people of more placid dispositions who were not angry when the Twin Towers were destroyed or who are not angry that the Labour government left tens of thousands of pensioners with Equitable Life in the lurch while unnecessarily bailing out Northern Rock just because a lot more Labour voters lived in its main branch areas. However those people who don't get angry about injustices are clearly of a different personality type to that of myself and various other members of the Tivocommunity forum.

From my experience of such things, the length of time between the issue being first reported and TiVoPony making his announcement is entirely consistent with how long it would take to identify the problem, figure out any possible solutions, weigh up the cost/benefits of them, and ultimately make a decision.

Just for reference it is worth remembering that it took 3 weeks before TivoPony was even aware there was an issue and even then that was pure chance - to quote TivoPony 2008-09-17: "Just to be fair here, I must admit that I wasn't aware of the broken Season Pass issue or the Lifetime issue until reading this thread just now."

You seem to be sticking with your view that we mere hick users cannot query Lord God Tivo's position.

Or, more probably, that it's a "programming" thing and if you don't understand it go do some research. Maybe?

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Has anyone contacted Tivo/Sky support since TivoPony's update to get any official notification? I'd be interested in there explanation and reaction to the situation and the response to the suggestion that reduced service should equal reduced (monthly)subs.

Just for reference it is worth remembering that it took 3 weeks before TivoPony was even aware there was an issue and even then that was pure chance - to quote TivoPony 2008-09-17: "Just to be fair here, I must admit that I wasn't aware of the broken Season Pass issue or the Lifetime issue until reading this thread just now."

Cheers,
Mike

Yes, it seems that it took his intervention to get the matter expedited.

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For me whatever happens now, the Tivo brand will have lost the "it just works" factor. I work in systems development and I would not even consider introducing any changes without thoroughly considering all potential impacts and consequences and it seems to me that there have been several cases recently where this simply hasn't been done.

What sets Tivo apart from the competition is that it learns what you watch and automatically records programs it thinks you might like. Not any more.

Furthermore there is now no way to know how much disk space is free. This has already caused me to lose a number of programs that I really wanted to watch. This means it is no longer a device that can be relied upon, in my opinion.

I really don't see what your continued defence of the Tivo management's position in this particular thread is really likely to achieve?

Well TiVo have made their decision, so it's not clear what anyone's posts are going to acheive.

It is clear you are going to treat this as one of your evil management vs citizens rights campaigner Pete issues which you so enjoy, see threads passim, when anyone who can see why a company reached a decision is dismissed as a capitalist lapdog, usuall with a few personal barbs thrown in for good measure,

Quote:

As to not feeling angry I expect there were plenty of people of more placid dispositions who were not angry when Poland was invaded.

So you are equating TiVo's management with Nazi Germany? I find that funny that you can say that and apparently mean it, but others may find it offensive.

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...said the pot to the kettle, asking for several hundred threads of off-topic wibbling and arguing for the sake of it to be taken into account,

But why are you here at all when you are not afflicted by this problem.

I would have thought you would have been cheerily watching one of those glorious Blu Ray disks of yours on your nice new Pioneer Full HD screen secure in the knowledge that Tivo was consigned to history in your household.

Furthermore there is now no way to know how much disk space is free. This has already caused me to lose a number of programs that I really wanted to watch. This means it is no longer a device that can be relied upon, in my opinion.

If you really want to keep them, set them to Keep until I delete, which is the feature designed for that purpose.

If your TiVo is hacked there are on screen free space display hacks.

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But why are you here at all when you are not afflicted by this problem.

I would have thought you would have been cheerily watching one of those glorious Blu Ray disks of yours on your nice new Pioneer Full HD screen secure in the knowledge that Tivo was consigned to history in your household.

If you read back through the thread you'll find I was discussing ways that a hack might restore Suggestions.

Anyway, with this Nero system I might be back soon!

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[quote=Pete77;6726658]A great article covering all the main ground. How many readers a day or a week does your site get? I take it that you are yourself an American based in the United States?
/QUOTE]

Cheers - no, I'm British and living in England. Tivo user from 2002 until a couple of months ago when I ditched Sky, moved to a house with Virgin cable and found the combination of the on-demand feature and torrents did enough that I could get buy without it (and without overly confusing the new missus with too many shiny boxes). That said, there's 240 hours of stuff still on the Tivo to be watched sometime...

Not 100% sure, but I believe the site averages around 20-25,000 readers a day.

Some of you may be interested to hear that TivoPony has now posted over in a thread in the US Tivo Help Centre forum section discussing the apparent recent loss of Suggestions functionality on US Series 1 Tivo machines.

He is suggesting that even if this has happened at present in the US it definitely won't be permanent as unlike the UK's v 2.5.x software the US Series 1 software can be made to cope with the change. For this I would read that Tivo Inc will actually roll out a new S1 software version in the US but can't be bothered to do so in the UK because they don't think they have any reputation to be damaged here in terms of lost potential new sales in our marketplace.

Those of you who have registered your unhappiness in this UK thread regarding the withdrawal of the Suggestions feature may therefore be interested to visit the US thread and make your views on the UK's loss of Suggestions known more fully to the US Series 1 Tivo user base.

That said, there's 240 hours of stuff still on the Tivo to be watched sometime....

Holy Frijole! Is it me or is that just completely nuts?!

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Some of you may be interested to hear that TivoPony has now posted over in a thread in the US Tivo Help Centre forum section discussing the apparent recent loss of Suggestions functionality on US Series 1 Tivo machines.

He is suggesting that even if this has happened at present in the US it definitely won't be permanent as unlike the UK's v 2.5.x software the US Series 1 software can be made to cope with the change. For this I would read that Tivo Inc will actually roll out a new S1 software version in the US but can't be bothered to do so in the UK because they don't think they have any reputation to be damaged here in terms of lost potential new sales in our marketplace.

I've only just picked up this thread as I'm currently in the US, in the purgatory that is Time Warner Cable and their horrible DVR software.

Like lots of others, I think suggestions are one of Tivo's attractions. But not the only one. Ok, they have stopped working because some programmers didn't have the foresight 10 years ago to make a data field large enough. Tivo's Millennium (+8) bug, anyone?

I also agree that still charging £10 a month for the service is steep, given the lack of updates and patchy product support. I have a lifetime sub so to be honest I will just shrug off the suggestions bug and be grateful for the service I have had.

Just one final point. We are dealing with a US-based business mindset. Whinge all you want, but if enough monthly subscription payers pull out and go elsewhere (but to whom exactly? Where is the equivalent service?) then the bean counters in Alviso will definitely pull the plug on the UK IMHO. And that way no one wins.

Some of you may be interested to hear that TivoPony has now posted over in a thread in the US Tivo Help Centre forum section discussing the apparent recent loss of Suggestions functionality on US Series 1 Tivo machines.

He is suggesting that even if this has happened at present in the US it definitely won't be permanent as unlike the UK's v 2.5.x software the US Series 1 software can be made to cope with the change. For this I would read that Tivo Inc will actually roll out a new S1 software version in the US but can't be bothered to do so in the UK because they don't think they have any reputation to be damaged here in terms of lost potential new sales in our marketplace.

Those of you who have registered your unhappiness in this UK thread regarding the withdrawal of the Suggestions feature may therefore be interested to visit the US thread and make your views on the UK's loss of Suggestions known more fully to the US Series 1 Tivo user base.

Pete77, this is a complete misrepresentation of my post. I understand your disappointment to the UK situation, but to twist my post into something it isn't is inappropriate.

The issue some customers in the US are reporting does not appear to be what you've experienced in the UK.

Bob,

I'm sorry if you feel that I misrepresented your post in any possible way. If there is some other fundamental reason why the US Series 1 version 3.x.x software can cope with the alteration in the TMSIDs at the series level in respect of Suggestions without the need for a new version but the UK software cannot do this without a new software version being released then I'd be grateful to hear what that reason is and why software versions for the UK and US Series 1 models that we were previously led to believe were virtually identical in all but version number are in fact apparently so fundamentally different.

Also I do commend your basic personal fortitude and good intentions in making a number of posts in the US and UK Tivocommunity forum threads with the intention of keeping the US and UK Series 1 user bases fully informed regarding the Suggestions issue. No one could ever doubt your own personal commitment to keeping in touch with the UK user base since you have always been the key man at Tivo who has ensured that this does happen where necessary on the Tivocommunity forums throughout the period of nearly six years that I have owned my UK Tivo. I am equally sure that you will not personally be to blame for any corporate level policy decisions that have resulted in the conclusion that Suggestions for the UK Series 1 Tivos can no longer be economically continued (given that I am sure they could be continued if a new version of the UK Series 1 software to cope with the data format alteration problem was released).

If there is anything further that you can personally do to cause a review of this apparently final business decision regarding the withdrawal of the Suggestions feature on the UK Series 1 units then I'm sure you know that any efforts on your part in that direction would be greatly appreciated by the UK Tivo user base.

Thanks again for all your information on this subject to date and for caring about and bothering to diligently read what is being posted by contributors to this thread in the Tivo UK Tivocommunity forum section. At no time were my criticisms directed at you personally but only at the Tivo corporate position over this issue.

I don't understand some posters aggressive attitude. I find it amazing, and greatly to TiVo's credit, that the service exists at all so many years after it went off sale.

I think the biggest problem is that when you purchase a subscription, whether monthly or one-off, you purchase the service *and* future upgrades. You understand that a proportion of your fee is to keep the system up-to-date. If I was paying monthly I think I'd feel especially aggrieved as I was paying over £10 a month for the guide *and* future upgrades and then be told I wasn't going to get any. Now that, quite frankly, sucks. In the US they've got the option of moving to a new TiVo, here we haven't. A major distinctive feature of TiVo has gone. Yeah, sometimes the suggestions weren't great, but those times it pulls out a gem you think it's the best thing on earth. Several series we like we would never have known about without suggestions.

For the first time *ever* my partner has been swearing and cursing about TiVo. He's not technically minded, but he loves TiVo. Or rather, he did. He now says we may as well have Sky+ as it's just the same. I know it's not, even now, but perception is everything. I feel slightly less aggrieved as we purchased a lifetime sub about 7 years ago, but him...? Boy oh boy.

The sort of customer devotion that the likes of Apple and TiVo have is something that shouldn't be squandered - their evangelists probably do more good than any marketing dollars ever will. If they turn against them, then I'm afraid they'll do more harm than any marketing will recover.

TiVo need to placate the customers now if they are serious about returning to the UK, and being honest probably the monthly and recently purchased lifetimes in priority, even though that would mean me being back of the queue. If there isn't seen to be a perception of something happening that will "rescue" TiVo in the UK, they've had it.

Then why are those big Red and Green Thumbs buttons by far the largest buttons on every Tivo remote?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TCM2007

Is that really the best argument you can come up with?

Do you know what? I'd never have thought it was possible, but I'm with Pete on this one. Suggestions are a key feature and a USP for TiVo over Sky+ and the other PVRs on the market. As his nibs said last night "without suggestions it's just a dumb video recorder like that Boxer thing was".

I'm confused - TiVoPony has come on here and told us exactly what happened, so far as we know as soon as it was possible to do so. Are you saying TiVo should have pre-announced that they were going to accidentally break suggestions?

You've obviously never worked in a quality based company. Any change to systems would require a proper check and testing to see what impact it has. They should have discovered this problem before it went wild. It shouldn't be a case of Joe The Techie decides to make a change on a Friday afternoon, it's let loose, and causes problems. Proper processes should be in place.

The sort of customer devotion that the likes of Apple and TiVo have is something that shouldn't be squandered - their evangelists probably do more good than any marketing dollars ever will. If they turn against them, then I'm afraid they'll do more harm than any marketing will recover.

Well said. That is indeed precisely the issue which Tivo Inc is currently ignoring.

You've obviously never worked in a quality based company. Any change to systems would require a proper check and testing to see what impact it has. They should have discovered this problem before it went wild. It shouldn't be a case of Joe The Techie decides to make a change on a Friday afternoon, it's let loose, and causes problems. Proper processes should be in place.

Having worked at a company where quality and an organised and methodical approach was all important and at one with a crazed, out of control and egotistical marketing man in charge who told his salesmen to sign contracts promising whatever data the customer wanted only for us grunts in database management and data supply to find it just could not be done the way the contract said I certainly recognise the huge difference in those two different corporate cultures.

The one thing I'm not clear on as yet is whether Tivo is largely at fault here or if Tribune is partly at fault in restructuring the database format to suit its own operating convenience without properly consulting Tivo beforehand. However if Tivo's contract with Tribune allows TMS to do this without suffering any penalties or other contractual consequences then ultimately management at Tivo is still at fault.

I have some sympathy with both sides of this discussion, I very rarely used suggestions quite often having them turned off for months on end as I also am minimalist regading my NPL. But as a monthly subscriber (from day one) I can also understand how people are feeling.

In all honesty, this is a pretty pointless argument (although to be fair when has that stopped Pete in the past) with a possible solution. TiVo aren't throwing their reputation and the goodwill in the UK intentionally, that would be stupid and idiotic, but they have obviously made an economic decision with regard to the UK and anything said here will not sway that.

How ever, TiVo could regain any loss of esteem here in one fail swoop. By simply speaking to Nero, their JV partners, and confirming here that the TiVo PC solution will be offered in the UK. We don't need a date, just confirmation of intent. This isn't a massive ask by any stretch of the imagination as any worldwide product launch will have this info in the business plan.

A statement to us on this forum saying "Don't worry. TiVo will definately be coming back to the UK. I can't give you a date but it will happen" would do it.