The strong Canadian economy is smoke and mirrors?

Our government just gives away access to our resources to international interests with goal of short term jobs but no real wealth created in Canada by Canadian companies.

Most of the oil companies here are Canadian. Including some of the larger ones. At least 5 of the top ten in the list below are headquartered here. And this is just a list of the exploration companies. There are hundreds of service companies that support them.

One thing I find puzzling is that the east side of the country imports oil from Venezuela and the Middle East, wanted Alberta's oil in the 80s, but now no one seems to want to build new pipelines, or expand existing ones, to transport oil down east. There are a couple of proposals, but they don't seem to be gaining much traction. Canadian oil also sells at a discount in relation to world prices because of the distance to market, so it is cheaper, at least for the moment. As for Quebec, they have plenty of shale gas too (essentially an extension of the Marcellus in PA), but currently have a drilling moratorium.

Part of this is the outcry every time a new pipeline or drilling project is announced. Just look at the latest whining and crying (valid or not) about a new pipeline to Prince Rupert to feed tankers.

Environmentalists are the worst hypocrites (most of them)... they bitch about how the pipeline will wreak havoc on the fuzzy cuddly bears and rabbits ( ) and then go home and either A) use oil industry products to heat their house or B) complain about how much gas costs to fill their car.

1) Nature isn't cuddly. It'll rip out your guts and eat you without saying thanks. 'Red of fang and claw' isn't just some old fashioned pithy comment.2) Pipelines should be under strict scrutiny. Eco-terrorists aren't helping by purposely damaging them, and then having the environmentalists point their fingers and shout 'SEE!'

I'm all for strict extraction rules and companies having to do it in the cleanest, most effective manner possible. Protecting the environment is important and necessary. I don't think anyone particularly wants to breathe and drink toxins. But just pointing fingers and saying "uh-nuh!" is refusing to realize that we are an energy-intensive species at the moment. Two choices: 1) Reduce our global energy expenditure (har, not gonna happen) or 2) Develop sustainable energy sources before "non-renewable" sources are exhausted.

Have you ever been to Prince Rupert? I lived in Northwest BC for several years and it has some of the most amazing environments in the world, including some of the last remaining temperate rainforests, one of the last wild salmon fisheries, ancient forests and vast park lands. Building a pipeline for China's benefits is just a short term gain that will not benefit the majority of Canadians.

Our government just gives away access to our resources to international interests with goal of short term jobs but no real wealth created in Canada by Canadian companies.

Most of the oil companies here are Canadian. Including some of the larger ones. At least 5 of the top ten in the list below are headquartered here. And this is just a list of the exploration companies. There are hundreds of service companies that support them.

One thing I find puzzling is that the east side of the country imports oil from Venezuela and the Middle East, wanted Alberta's oil in the 80s, but now no one seems to want to build new pipelines, or expand existing ones, to transport oil down east. There are a couple of proposals, but they don't seem to be gaining much traction. Canadian oil also sells at a discount in relation to world prices because of the distance to market, so it is cheaper, at least for the moment. As for Quebec, they have plenty of shale gas too (essentially an extension of the Marcellus in PA), but currently have a drilling moratorium.

Part of this is the outcry every time a new pipeline or drilling project is announced. Just look at the latest whining and crying (valid or not) about a new pipeline to Prince Rupert to feed tankers.

Environmentalists are the worst hypocrites (most of them)... they bitch about how the pipeline will wreak havoc on the fuzzy cuddly bears and rabbits ( ) and then go home and either A) use oil industry products to heat their house or B) complain about how much gas costs to fill their car.

1) Nature isn't cuddly. It'll rip out your guts and eat you without saying thanks. 'Red of fang and claw' isn't just some old fashioned pithy comment.2) Pipelines should be under strict scrutiny. Eco-terrorists aren't helping by purposely damaging them, and then having the environmentalists point their fingers and shout 'SEE!'

I'm all for strict extraction rules and companies having to do it in the cleanest, most effective manner possible. Protecting the environment is important and necessary. I don't think anyone particularly wants to breathe and drink toxins. But just pointing fingers and saying "uh-nuh!" is refusing to realize that we are an energy-intensive species at the moment. Two choices: 1) Reduce our global energy expenditure (har, not gonna happen) or 2) Develop sustainable energy sources before "non-renewable" sources are exhausted.

What a crock of caricatures and over-generalizations. The fact is that any valid (or even hysterical) criticisms regarding the development of the tar sands and these pipeline projects are more than compensated for by a federal government hell-bent on riding roughshod over any scrutiny, debate, transparency, science, regulation, caution, or anything else that might impede for a second even a minute fraction of the profits of a handful of Alberta energy companies, now including one owned by the Chinese government.

If you are all for strict extraction rules and companies having to do it in the cleanest most effective manner possible than you better change your view of environmentalists because they are the only ones currently speaking up for such measures. Government and industry are doing no more than paying lip service to these, while actively gutting existing environmental regulations and ignoring any and all science that contradicts their pre-existing plans regarding extraction and delivery via pipelines.

Many environmentalists are principled and well meaning while some are ill-informed hypocrites. So-called 'Eco Terrorists' are more a product of propaganda and fear mongering by vested energy interests than a real entity on the Canadian scene. I'd like to see your examples.

Overall, even if there are some environmentalists who don't practice what they preach I would guess that they are outnumbered roughly 500-to-1 by under-educated, willfully uninformed, tabloid-fed corporate cheerleaders who wouldn't know bitumen from the blue man group but have pledged their undying support to Harper and describe environmentalists as either only caring about 'fuzzy-cuddly bears and rabbits' or being eco-terrorists...

If you want your opinions to be taken seriously, you might want to stick with the facts -- and discuss these issues on a scientific or economic basis -- and leave the gross caricatures to the tabloids and Environment Minister.

BarCode, where do you live? Maybe it seems like a gross caricature to you, but if you live in the Lower Mainland, we see this shit all the time. The 22 year old General Studies college student protesting the "vast harm" of some road work cause it'll disturb some fucking SEAGULL nests gets tiresome. It seems like there's not a single week that goes by without someone protesting something.

I have been to Prince Rupert (not for many years) and it was beautiful yes, and it should be protected. But something to consider as well; it's basically a port town. If there aren't shipments to be tankered (be they oil, grain or other goods), the town's economy has nothing to keep it going; the little fishing and tourism it generates isn't sufficient to sustain it, especially with the mill shutdowns.

For the record, I'm very disappointed in the latest blather coming from the PMO & federal environment ministries; muffling science and riding roughshod over environmental regulations which have served us well in the past is NOT what I'm for. In fact, myself and a number of my friends have written to our MPs about this matter, so don't characterize me as some corporate shill please. We should have strong environmental regulations, but they also shouldn't just flat out prevent business from happening either (if that means higher gas prices so be it). Neither should we just have companies drilling and fracking without any oversight either. Especially foreign companies with no interest other than themselves!

At the same time I recognize that the energy for modern civilization has to come from somewhere, and since there's a huge outcry every time the word 'nuclear' is brought up, I also have to deal with that fact that oil is necessary, and it's got to be transported somehow. Pipelines, properly installed and maintained, are generally the best way to do so. Whether Keystone XL or some Chinese company is the appropriate party to build said pipelines is a different discussion.

As for the Eco-terrorists stuff, BC has had problems with tree-spiking, the last big reported rash in 2004, but it still happens from time to time. People get killed by that, and even if they don't, having metal shards flying around an enclosed space at 100+ KPH is fucking scary. I can't find the report right now, but I recall seeing either Terasen in BC or a pipeline provider in Alberta posting a reward for information about pipeline damage; they said it was deliberate. Purposefully causing a pipeline leak seems hypocritical to me if you call yourself an environmentalist. I also consider it somewhat disingenuous to point at deliberate damage and shout "See, pipelines leak!".

I'm a realist, not an optimist nor a pessimist (although I'm getting kind of pessimistic about who to vote for next time... none of the options are appealing )

In a massively overvalued home in downtown Toronto (which I purchased pre-bubble so I guess I can't complain...but I also won't be borrowing a penny against the equity)

Quote:

Maybe it seems like a gross caricature to you, but if you live in the Lower Mainland, we see this shit all the time. The 22 year old General Studies college student protesting the "vast harm" of some road work cause it'll disturb some fucking SEAGULL nests gets tiresome. It seems like there's not a single week that goes by without someone protesting something.

Kids acting dumb. Film at 11.

I'm sure these people exist. I'm sure they can be annoying when you are exposed to them personally. But it still doesn't excuse lumping all people who might broadly be considered 'environmentalists' together and then characterizing them based on some extreme outliers you have personally witnessed. I also think it's a bit much to call anyone who harbors concerns about environmental issues, sustainability, energy policy, etc a 'hypocrite' because they heat their home. Most reasonable people recognize the need for balance as well as the fact that almost all of us do need to function within our society and accept certain realities while striving to make smart and principled choices.

Quote:

For the record, I'm very disappointed in the latest blather coming from the PMO & federal environment ministries; muffling science and riding roughshod over environmental regulations which have served us well in the past is NOT what I'm for. In fact, myself and a number of my friends have written to our MPs about this matter, so don't characterize me as some corporate shill please. We should have strong environmental regulations, but they also shouldn't just flat out prevent business from happening either (if that means higher gas prices so be it). Neither should we just have companies drilling and fracking without any oversight either. Especially foreign companies with no interest other than themselves!

I'm glad to see this. I generally agree with all of this while I'm sure there is plenty of room for debate in terms of where the line should be in terms of striking the best balance between the economy and the environment and how we could -- as a nation -- be an economic and environmental leader as opposed to what we are today. Btw, I didn't call you a corporate shill, though I did say that many people who throw terms like 'eco terrorist' around and broadly support the Harper govt economic and energy policies are, likely unwitting, corporate shills.

Canadians have huge debt levels, that's why they don't have any money, they spend it all. It looks like the real estate bubble is starting to pop, maybe 2013 will be the year it does.

What I mean is I feel our average income should be higher cause the guys working in natural resources should be making really good money. That income should be passed on to the rest of Canadians while they spend it and the average taxes should be lower as we tax those resources to pay for our social safety net and such.

The guys working in the Oil Sands make stupid money. When they're offering overtime (doubletime and a half), my brother can pull 1K in a day. At the same time though, supply and demand sees to it that expenses there are insane. A freehold house in Fort McMurray will run you about the same as one in downtown Toronto because the city can't build fast enough to house everyone that wants/needs to live there.

The big problem outside that sector right now is the same problem that's happening everywhere: where they're not booming, companies are pressuring employees on payroll to hold the line, or drop it, and shutting down where they feel they can't get that. Meanwhile, the jobs that are replacing them are often offering half the base rate of pay or worse and are part time to boot. Government is enabling them by allowing them to import "temporary" workers at 10-25% below the wage a company would be required to pay a Canadian whenever the company can "demonstrate" they can't find a Canadian "qualified" to do the job.

Meanwhile, we graduate kids every 5 months from college or university who can't get their cards punched because no one will hire them to complete their apprenticeship requirements. Wonder why.

OMG tell me about it. One of my sister's best friend who lives in Fort McMurray started an HVAC business a few years ago and he's a millionaire. Overall though, I don't see Alberta Gov saving money for a rainy day. The Heritage fund has been pilfered. They could be really hurting there in a couple of years.

OMG tell me about it. One of my sister's best friend who lives in Fort McMurray started an HVAC business a few years ago and he's a millionaire. Overall though, I don't see Alberta Gov saving money for a rainy day. The Heritage fund has been pilfered. They could be really hurting there in a couple of years.

My mother is from Alberta and we still have a lot of family there and she's absolutely incensed by how Alberta has treated the Heritage fund.

OMG tell me about it. One of my sister's best friend who lives in Fort McMurray started an HVAC business a few years ago and he's a millionaire. Overall though, I don't see Alberta Gov saving money for a rainy day. The Heritage fund has been pilfered. They could be really hurting there in a couple of years.

My mother is from Alberta and we still have a lot of family there and she's absolutely incensed by how Alberta has treated the Heritage fund.

Living in Halifax, the sad thing is that the majority of the projects that are being developed are usually backed heavily by government more so than the private sector ( Naval Shipbuilding Contract, New Convention Center, Upper Churchill etc.) and attracting new private investment here is next to impossible given the amount of red tape and cost that goes into setting up any kind of new business. It seems that companies will only come in when given payroll rebates by the province or the feds and even then, it's usually a lose-lose situation. (RIM and IBM both set up shop here and the province basically wrote them a huge check to do so.) In RIM's case, only half the promised jobs appeared (since RIM has been having some difficulty to say the least.) and in the case of IBM, the province outsourced SAP development to them, putting 75 government employees out of work while writing IBM a huge check to start up a "Global Support Centre" with (supposedly) 500 jobs.

And to add insult to injury, when a private investor wants to come in and build a brand new office building in downtown Halifax, he gets caught up in "design guidelines" that the city set out to "preserve heritage" and ultimately, voted down by city council. No wonder people don't want to invest here.

People talk about Canada being a great economy, but the amount of red tape means the Atlantic Provinces are always 2 steps behind everyone else, and the majority of the "investment" is coming straight from the government, which means that income and quality of life is lower

The Canadian economy is only strong in the context of the rest of the world going to shit. Unemployment is still up more than a percent from 2008 or so, and not recovering in any major way from the initial spike.

We're in a good place right now because the presence of strong regulation and a relatively risk-averse banking sector have kept our economy from going completely bonkers, and our public finances were in good shape coming into the recession, and the Conservatives hadn't had enough time to screw up the public finances before the recession hit.

There's nothing magical about our economy, and has been noted there are significant weaknesses to watch out for. While the resource sector is dependable, it's prone to fluctuations - and our economy is increasingly tilting towards resource-extraction based industry. Having been exposed in the last few years to the housing markets in both the prairies and (more recently) Toronto, the real estate situation seems to be suspiciously overheated.

A ~1100 square foot condo in a good area of Saskatoon costs about $330k or so. As for Toronto, trendy downtown condos are going for about $420 to $450 for a 1.5-bed, 800-850 square foot location. The market seems to have peaked now, and sales have flattened out, so I expect prices to hold or dip a little bit, and sales to flatline. As the thousands of new units under construction come on the market, prices may be forced down somewhat. The recent tightening of mortgage rules probably will also contribute to the stagnation of the market here, which is a good thing. From what I've heard Vancouver has already started feeling the pinch from its easly-onset real-estate insanity.

Real estate is due for a correction, but it's hard to predict when or how those things will play out. I don't expect that to be a crash so much as a potentially a big slump.

I don't think the state of our economy right now is smoke and mirrors. It's not as commendable as some in the media here want to portray it - "not totally fucking shit up" doesn't make us some paragon of economic virtue, so I don't think we should start sucking each others dicks quite yet.

BarCode wrote:

In a massively overvalued home in downtown Toronto (which I purchased pre-bubble so I guess I can't complain...but I also won't be borrowing a penny against the equity)

I'm in an overvalued condo in downtown Toronto which I purchased a few months ago I decided a long time ago that I wasn't going to try to view housing as an investment in anything more than a nice place to live.

OMG tell me about it. One of my sister's best friend who lives in Fort McMurray started an HVAC business a few years ago and he's a millionaire. Overall though, I don't see Alberta Gov saving money for a rainy day. The Heritage fund has been pilfered. They could be really hurting there in a couple of years.

My mother is from Alberta and we still have a lot of family there and she's absolutely incensed by how Alberta has treated the Heritage fund.

Welcome to those of us who live here.

Yeah, the complete lack of long term planning is getting a little frustrating. The Heritage Fund was supposed to help lessen the impact of the boom and bust cycle, but the Tories really messed that one up. Sooner or later we'll end up with a provincial sales tax, or some other tax, to make up the short fall.

OMG tell me about it. One of my sister's best friend who lives in Fort McMurray started an HVAC business a few years ago and he's a millionaire. Overall though, I don't see Alberta Gov saving money for a rainy day. The Heritage fund has been pilfered. They could be really hurting there in a couple of years.

My mother is from Alberta and we still have a lot of family there and she's absolutely incensed by how Alberta has treated the Heritage fund.

Welcome to those of us who live here.

Yeah, the complete lack of long term planning is getting a little frustrating. The Heritage Fund was supposed to help lessen the impact of the boom and bust cycle, but the Tories really messed that one up. Sooner or later we'll end up with a provincial sales tax, or some other tax, to make up the short fall.

OMG tell me about it. One of my sister's best friend who lives in Fort McMurray started an HVAC business a few years ago and he's a millionaire. Overall though, I don't see Alberta Gov saving money for a rainy day. The Heritage fund has been pilfered. They could be really hurting there in a couple of years.

My mother is from Alberta and we still have a lot of family there and she's absolutely incensed by how Alberta has treated the Heritage fund.

Welcome to those of us who live here.

Yeah, the complete lack of long term planning is getting a little frustrating. The Heritage Fund was supposed to help lessen the impact of the boom and bust cycle, but the Tories really messed that one up. Sooner or later we'll end up with a provincial sales tax, or some other tax, to make up the short fall.

Just moving away from a 10% flat tax would help our financial system immensely.

And/Or going back to the original promise of the fund to squirrel away 30% of all resource revenues.

In other news, The Globe is running a series on Canada's recent housing boom. After reading the piece about how the housing appraisal process works (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-o ... le6673774/ ) it's apparent that this mess is going to take a few years to unwind. Lots of junk out there that is overvalued. Fundamental conflicts of interest in the system so that everyone benefits from higher prices (except for the most recent buyer). Based on an earlier suggestion in this thread I started reading greaterfool and now I can see the meaning of it. Mr. Turner is a bit too pessimistic... but judging by the amount of history on that blog, his major flaw was trying to predict the timing of when the housing bubble was going to exhaust itself.

And/Or going back to the original promise of the fund to squirrel away 30% of all resource revenues.

I think it's too late for that to be effective on its own at this point. This province needs a more stable source of funds to pay for infrastructure, education and healthcare that isn't as closely tied to the whims of oil and gas prices.

After 15+ years of working on oil sands projects, I do worry about the "depth" of any purported recovery based on it. Over and over again, the large multi-nationals that are developing the mega-projects are quick to put the brakes on at the slightest hint of profits going down. And they are really slow to start up again. This behaviour makes the industry it's own worst enemy. Because everyone wants to get their project down right now!, they start competing for scarce labour resources. Labour costs spiral up, and projects start over-running and becoming uneconomical. The lack of long-term thinking in some of the largest corporations in the world is truly breathtaking. (My pet peeve is the slavery to the next quarter's results and keeping Bay St / Wall St happy. Instead of looking long term.)

My point is it isn't a firm foundation to base an economy on. Large multi-nationals have no hesitation in pulling a multi-billion project if a slightly cheaper play is available in Malaysia.

One thing that could help strengthen and diversify the Alberta economy would be to increase royalties. We are one of the cheapest places to produce, given our political stability. The producers should be paying more, and that cash should be saved for a rainy day (Heritage Fund) and investing in diversification. Alberta has an enormously educated workforce, both in engineering and trades, that could be adapted to work on just about anything.

With regards to sending oil sands production to central Canada, it's more than a pipeline problem. There is not suitable refining capacity for this kind of feed. Oil sands derived synthetic crude is hydrogen deficient. To make motor fuels and all the other value add products from a barrel of oil you need to have a reasonable amount of hydrogen in relation to the amount of carbon. If you don't, you need to either reject carbon or add hydrogen before you can do all the other processes that produce your saleable products. Both are expensive, and none really exist in the dwindling pool of central Canadian refineries. Suncor Montreal had a carbon rejection project (delayed coking) but it got cancelled. Shell Montreal refinery I think has closed down. Esso Oakville is long gone. Sarnia has a few refineries, but I'm not aware of them being set up to take a ton of heavy feed. There has been some big investments in US refineries (Wood River, etc) to take oil sands feed, but so far I haven't seen much in Canada outside the Alberta refineries.

I remain quite bearish on the Canadian economy. Saw my parents and lots of others get kicked in the early 80's and it has made me really cautious. Despite personally benefitting to an amazing extent from the oil sands for most of my working life, I work hard to live well within our means and always have a plan for when the music stops.

We are one of the cheapest places to produce, given our political stability.

It isn't that simple. The flip side is the limited manpower available, distance to market and limits on other required materials (concrete and steel need to be shipped in from far away, for example). While oil sands royalties could likely be pushed up a bit, it wouldn't be enough to make up for what has already been lost in the Heritage Fund. At the time of the last royalty review I was working with a planning group at one of the oil companies, and the highest proposed rates really would have made drilling in the province unprofitable almost everywhere. Oil wells in Alberta typically have low flow rates (100bbl/day I think is average) compared to somewhere like Norway (1,000bbl/day or more). And thanks to the distances to major markets, natural gas demand and prices are low, and making many plays border line economic as it is.

I still think the best plan is to start encouraging alternatives to the oil industry.

Those are some crazy real estate prices. It'll be interesting to see how that develops. Not everyone can become a millionaire by selling their 1200sqf bungalow.

Same as we're curious how it will develop in San Francisco and other areas of the U.S. with similarly exaggerated real estate markets.

papadage wrote:

Entegy wrote:

I never understood how housing prices going only up would ever be a good idea. Lots of places are massively overpriced.

That's not the bad idea necessarily.. The really bad idea is leveraging the economy in such a way that if it ever goes down, it's a catastrophe.

Not sure that follows. That sounds like, "it's not the false premise that's bad, it's the necessary outcome of it that's bad". But that outcome only exists because the false premise was held and decisions were made based upon it. The "really bad idea" is leveraging one's assets and financial stability based on the false premise that real estate always goes up in value. Instead of trying to remove the painful consequences for foolish actions (generally impossible anyway, or at least wasteful to do so), let's curb the foolish actions so as to avoid the necessity of those consequences repeating in the future.

It's not the popping of the bubble that's the problem, it's the inflating of it in the first place. The popping is the market attempting to return to a proper level after the truth comes out. If all we're doing is addressing the popping, we're going to have many more of them in the future, until we figure out that we need to get ahead of the problem and address the creation of the bubbles in the first place.

I still think the best plan is to start encouraging alternatives to the oil industry.

This has been an idea in play for many years now. What I find amazing is to what extent the industry will try and secure very difficult and expensive sources of hydrocarbons but won't put that same effort and money into alternatives. Of course our infrastructure is based on oil and already is well entrenched but the players must see down the road?

What I find amazing is to what extent the industry will try and secure very difficult and expensive sources of hydrocarbons but won't put that same effort and money into alternatives. Of course our infrastructure is based on oil and already is well entrenched but the players must see down the road?

BP Solar closed down not long ago despite supplying four multimegawatt plants. Reuters:

Quote:

The unit, which BP has been scaling back since 2008, is the latest sun energy business to fall victim to rampant competition from China, falling prices, overcapacity and lower government subsidies on which the industry still depends.

Quote:

The solar business at BP, which was set up around 40 years ago, has been shrinking since 2008 when the firm started exiting its manufacturing plants.

The company retains a presence in alternative energy through its U.S. wind power portfolio and its biofuels business and has to date invested $7 billion of a planned $8 billion program in alternative energy.

This has been an idea in play for many years now. What I find amazing is to what extent the industry will try and secure very difficult and expensive sources of hydrocarbons but won't put that same effort and money into alternatives. Of course our infrastructure is based on oil and already is well entrenched but the players must see down the road?

A large part of it comes down to economics. Most of the companies have looked into alternative energy sources. The problem is the economics don't work out very well, at least not in the near term (got to keep the shareholders happy remember). For example, Talisman invested in offshore windmills off of Scotland and received some environmental recognition for it. In reality they weren't doing it to branch out, but because the Scottish government was subsidizing half the costs and a power company was paying another quarter. This allowed them to keep a couple offshore oil platforms going. If the subsidies hadn't been there, they would have just shut the platforms down and moved on to drill elsewhere. Most of the people running these companies are very conservative with spending on unknown, at least to them, technologies. They know oil, not wind mills. Although they don't seem to mind losing millions of dollars down a dry hole (it is an odd industry sometimes). Between the low gas prices and discounted oil prices, there isn't much cash floating around for people to risk elsewhere (those shareholders again).

Geothermal would be one area that shouldn't be too far foreign to oil companies as it requires drilling, geological and geophysical knowledge. All in abundance around here. The down side is that few outside companies can match the salaries paid by oil companies for the best people, and the oil companies want are always looking at the economics.

I wasn't really even thinking of alternative energy specifically, but any alternatives in general. There are a lot of technology companies in the province, for example. Nortel had a decent sized plant in Calgary, once upon a time, and there are others. Most are here in support of the oil and gas industry right now, but maybe that could be expanded. There must be other options too. This is a province f

Not really news. Most Canadians know that our housing prices are absurdly high, especially in large cities (which also coincide with areas of high immigration). Frankly, Canada is a nice piece of land, despite all the snow and rain and bullshit politics. I'm always wary of the whole Chinese angle in real-estate bubble discussions, though. "Those nasty Chinese people are terkin' err herrsers!" I also think that most people don't quite trust Flaherty and Harper to do a good job of getting out of this crisis in a safe and graceful manner. The Liberals did a good job in the 1990s and early 2000s, but they're no longer around. Let's see where this "macroprudential regulation" leads us.

So, yes, the Canadian economy is smoke and mirrors to a degree. High household debt (lower than the US's, but not anywhere easily manageable) and possible job saturation in cities aren't helping at all.

22,000 job losses. Unemployment rate stayed nearly unchanged though due to 57,500 giving up on looking for work. Depressing news.

Construction is the only industry to add jobs in the past few months. Unfortunately also just happens to be the same industry that is on the verge of imploding due to the RE bubble deflating/crashing.

Western Canada Select crude is still struggling price wise so little hope that will help carry the economy.

The stars are aligning for an ugly year in the economy.

I still maintain we just managed to delay the economic pain the rest of the world started going through in 2008. What I fear is the delay is going to cause the eventual pain to be much more severe. Hopefully not, but only time will tell.