Were the guys friends? They knew each other. Whether they were 'friends' or only 'acquaintances' is irrelevant

zombie puzzlers relevant? [couldn’t resist that, considering the re-animation of users on the LTPF…] Hee hee, No - I, psydkik, am actually a clone of psymann that was kept cryogenically frozen in case of just such an emergency, rather than a zombie!

Did you or the other guys keep birds? Was the argument around whether those particular birds could get that particular infection? Did somebody have a lung condition that made proximity to birds dangerous, regardless of whether they were infected?

Was the argument a dispute about the bird species? About the effect or magnitude of the infection? The economic impact, or other consequences for humans? Were the infected birds wild or domestic? One species, or more than one? Found in [invoke LTPF list of continents]?

For the following questions, a note because it's hard for me to answer 'yes' or 'no' without being misleading otherwise:

These are questions about 'the infection'. The infection in question affected a number of beings in a number of countries around the world. The majority of these infections bore no relation to the argument in question. Only a small number of the infections were relevant in causing the argument.

So some of these are "yes, irrelevant" (ie they are true for the infection), and others are "yes, relevant" (ie they are true for the specific instances of the infection that caused the argument), as a result. Hope that makes sense!

Rather than post an exhaustive list of bird orders and genera from my hard-drive, we’ll extract from it:Were the relevant birds Columbidae? [pigeons and the like] Gallidae? [think chickens and others like that] Passeriformes? [“song-birds,” AKA “perching birds,” mostly having to do with the structure of their feet -- including the Corvidae, our beloved family of crows, ravens, magpies and jays – but this order also includes many birds kept as domestic companions] Psittaciformes? [parrots and their temperate region kin, including cockatoos, etc.] Acciptriformes or Falconiformes? [hawks, falcons, eagles… people “keep” those as well.]

Were the relevant domestic birds kept indoors like canaries and budgies? No

Or in hutches outside like pigeons? No

Yojimbo:

Were the relevant birds Columbidae? [pigeons and the like] No

Gallidae? [think chickens and others like that] No

Passeriformes? [“song-birds,” AKA “perching birds,” mostly having to do with the structure of their feet -- including the Corvidae, our beloved family of crows, ravens, magpies and jays – but this order also includes many birds kept as domestic companions] No

Psittaciformes? [parrots and their temperate region kin, including cockatoos, etc.] No

Acciptriformes or Falconiformes? [hawks, falcons, eagles… people “keep” those as well.] No

Relevant species: Ducks, geese, or other waterfowl? [still will not invoke my encyclopedic list... just isn't fair play.]Does the argument relate to the birds in question? Or the nature of the infection? The severity or other impact, economic or cultural? A specific location or region? Were animals other than birds and humans infected? Was the disease vector relevant? If so, aerial? Insects? Water?

Did the argument revolve around, or otherwise pertain, to the geese in any way? [reading through the thread, I noted I had stuttered in one of my own posts: "and and" -- so maybe I DO stutter when I get excited at the keyboard...]

Did the argument pertain principally to the infection, and the geese came up as a result? No, but along the right lines - the argument pertained principally to something else, and infection of geese came up as a result.

... bad formatting... I was asking if the primary discussion was about how bureaucracy in general (government or otherwise) often picks the wrong problem to solve, or solves a problem in an illogical and typically costly manner.

Did you meet these fellows in a bar? A restaurant? At a dinner which included goose on the menu? Did you know them prior to the argument? Did you meet them when the argument came up? Is it relevant who instigated the argument?

I was asking if the primary discussion was about how bureaucracy in general (government or otherwise) often picks the wrong problem to solve, or solves a problem in an illogical and typically costly manner. No - nothing of this sort - I save that sort of discussion for my boss about some of my work! ;-)

Yojimbo:

Did you meet these fellows in a bar? NoA restaurant? NoAt a dinner which included goose on the menu? No

Did you know them prior to the argument? No

Did you meet them when the argument came up? I met them first, then the argument with them occurred a little later.

Is it relevant who instigated the argument? Not hugely - but it was one of them who initiated the argument.

Ah, I see how you met them is relevant, as previously answered. Is where you met them relevant? Did you meet them at a public gathering place, such as a park, sports arena or other sports facility? A social setting, such as a party? Were you all engaged in an activity? The same one for all? Is that relevant?

Rightio - I was being as general as possible about "sports arena." Thanks for the clarification. So then:Is a particular sport relevant? Does it involve moving a ball to a goal? Animals involved in the sport? Typically played by professionals, or recreationally by amateurs, or perhaps both?

Does the relevant sport call for special equipment or clothing? Played indoors or outdoors, or perhaps either? Is a ball involved at all [baseball, softball, tennis, squash, racquetball, handball, cricket -- of which I know absolutely nothing... as in, whether a ball is moved to a goal...]? Is hockey relevant [moving a puck to a goal]?

Is a ball involved at all No[baseball, softball, tennis, squash, racquetball, handball, cricket -- of which I know absolutely nothing... as in, whether a ball is moved to a goal...]? Therefore no to all

Is it the sport in which two participants compete against each other (like in fencing)? In which each participant does his trial separately (like in discus throw)? Did either you? or the guys? question the result of the game? Is it relevant where was the sports facility located?

Answer if you asked anyone I play with, would be No, although I don't want to mislead you accidentally, so if you want you could consider rephrasing this question to make sure I've answered it correctly based on your own definitions of things.

We're looking for an indoor sport, in which two participants from different teams compete against each other and then their scores are tallied, special equipment and clothing (DOYD) is needed to perform this sport and there is no ball involved. No animals are involved. The sport has nothing to do with martial arts, fencing or wrestling. No shooting, no throwing. All correct?

Is it a sport in which several disciplines are combined (such as in triathlon, decathlon etc)? Is it a sort of gymnastic? Sport ballroom dancing? Can children play this sport? Can women? Are teams mixed (both men and women in one team)?

Does your sport call for uniforms? Does it call for safety equipment [e.g., goggles or gloves]? Is it played in a series of innings, quarters, halves, sets, matches, or other units? Is the winning score typically single digits, or double, or higher? Are officials or referees involved? Scorekeepers other than the players? Is it played on a special layout, such as a baseball diamond or football pitch, or other similar? Can one play this sport at home, or does it call for a special venue? Do birds appear in any form in the sport, such as emblazoned on jerseys or other accoutrements?

Is that sport part of the olympic games? Yes - but will you get it without googling Olympic Sports? ;-)

We're looking for an indoor sport, Yes

in which two participants from different teams compete against each other Yope - we mentioned before it could be either an individual or a team sport, and you're sort of right here. If it's an individual sport, then two players play against each other. If it's a team sport, then one team plays against another team, though you can also get teams of individuals and teams of teams, to make life more complicated ;-)

and then their scores are tallied Yes, in as much as someone is keeping score, same as for example in Football or Volleyball, where the scores are tallied up as they progress through the game.

special equipment and clothing (DOYD) is needed to perform this sport Yes

and there is no ball involved Correct, no ball

No animals are involved. This is played solely by humans

The sport has nothing to do with martial arts, fencing or wrestling. No shooting, no throwing. Correct - none of these

Is it a sport in which several disciplines are combined (such as in triathlon, decathlon etc)? No

Is it a sort of gymnastic? No

Sport ballroom dancing? No

Can children play this sport? YesCan women? YesAre teams mixed (both men and women in one team)? Can be either mens teams, ladies teams, or mixed teams

Yojimbo:

Does your sport call for uniforms? No, though some teams will decide to wear a team kit

Does it call for safety equipment [e.g., goggles or gloves]? No

Is it played in a series of innings, quarters, halves, sets, matches, or other units? Yes, a number of 'games', though recreationally many people will just play one 'game' at a time.

Is the winning score typically single digits, or double, or higher? Double - for each game, the winning score will always fall within the same range of 10

Are officials or referees involved? Scorekeepers other than the players? Yes to all, although at our playing standard we don't tend to bother with them

Is it played on a special layout, such as a baseball diamond or football pitch, or other similar? Yes

Can one play this sport at home, or does it call for a special venue? You'd need a big home, but I bet it's been done somewhere. And actually it was first invented in someone's home. But basically you need a special venue.

Do birds appear in any form in the sport, such as emblazoned on jerseys or other accoutrements? No

If it helps, this particular sport is almost certainly one of the top ten - probably one of the top five - possibly one of the top two - most widely participated-in sports in the world. Hard to tell accurately due to difficultly estimating the numbers, but it's there or thereabouts. ;-)

Is it a water sport? Does the special equipment needed to this sport form a part of the arena/layout? Is the equipment needed for each player? For each team? Just one item for the whole game? Do the players run in this sport? Hit something?

Is badminton relevant? [WAG -- have never seen it played indoors, and can't imagine it's an Olympic sport, is it? what have we come to? If badminton ever gets to be an Olympic sport, then I suggest that "Cocktails" also gets to be one -- also not invoking "LTPF list of Olympic Sports" ~~ but badminton does involve a shuttlecock, AKA a "birdie" [from thence comes my inspiration] ~~ and I have no idea how popular it is globally, but in my neighborhood as a kid, we adored it...]

Does the special equipment needed to this sport form a part of the arena/layout? Just one item for the whole game? Yes, some of it - net posts

Is the equipment needed for each player? Yes, some of it - racquets. Also shuttlecocks needed for each game.

For each team? No

Do the players run in this sport? Fast reactions and fast movement, but not 'running' as such, no.

Hit something? Yes - a shuttlecock

Yojimbo:

Is badminton relevant? Yes!

[WAG -- have never seen it played indoors, and can't imagine it's an Olympic sport, is it? what have we come to? If badminton ever gets to be an Olympic sport, then I suggest that "Cocktails" also gets to be one -- also not invoking "LTPF list of Olympic Sports" ~~ but badminton does involve a shuttlecock, AKA a "birdie" [from thence comes my inspiration] ~~ and I have no idea how popular it is globally, but in my neighborhood as a kid, we adored it...]

A few notes: - Anyone who plays it outdoors isn't really playing it, but is instead playing what I'd refer to as "tippy tappy wussy pathetic badminton", which is the sort of thing that gives badminton a reputation with many people as not being a real sport. You can't play it outdoors because it is *always* too windy, even when it looks as if there's no wind. Even the air-con inside sometimes has to be turned off if it points in the wrong direction. - It's been an Olympic sport since 1992, with the top competitors coming from China, Indonesia, South Korea and Malaysia in Asia, and Denmark and UK from Europe. But dominated by the Chinese much of the time. Due to the massive populations in that part of the world, it has (probably - these things can rarely be measured with any accuracy) tens if not hundreds of millions of players around the world - here's one of many inaccurate guesses: http://www.johann-sandra.com/popular.htm- In the UK, and we get to be right because we invented it ;-), it's called a "shuttlecock" or "shuttle" that you hit. Various other parts of the world do indeed call it a "bird" or a "birdie".

If played like tippy-tappy badminton, then it's not much of a sport - but when played properly, it's every bit as much a sport as more well-known options. The fastest recorded shot in tennis is 163mph; the fastest recorded in badminton is 206mph - and yes it slows down faster, but yes you're stood a lot closer in the first place. Because there's no continuous running, it's less demanding in some respects than sports like football or field hockey which involve a lot of sustained movement. But it's far more physically demanding than cricket or baseball, especially singles. And technically demanding too. At university, our A-team captain's mates said badminton wasn't a real sport, so he got them down to watch him play in the top division of the local league, and they soon changed their minds ;-)</advert>

If you've only ever seen it played by tippy tappy people in the garden, here's how it looks when played by the professionals, though it's a better game to play than to watch:

Glad we drilled down to the sport and what you were doing with the guys. I had nearly lost sight of the situation of the puzzle, as had some of my colleagues, perhaps. Was the argument inspired by your game of badminton? Were the fellows with whom you were arguing on your team, or were they your opponents, or both? Did you guys have one of those nasty badminton brawls as a result, like at a football match? sorry if I seemed to be disparaging badminton as a legitimate sport - but in my perhaps-sheltered experience, it's executed in backyards while one awaits bratwurst from the barbecue...

Glad we drilled down to the sport and what you were doing with the guys. I had nearly lost sight of the situation of the puzzle, as had some of my colleagues, perhaps. All useful to know, but yes, I figured a recap needed to remind me what we were doing! ;-)

Was the argument inspired by your game of badminton? Yes

Were the fellows with whom you were arguing on your team, or were they your opponents, or both? Opponents

Did you guys have one of those nasty badminton brawls as a result, like at a football match? We had a stern discussion, followed by muttered whispers, followed by the threat of writing to the local league committee. That's pretty fighty for our sport! ;-) Although... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAnK7uyIeRE

sorry if I seemed to be disparaging badminton as a legitimate sport - but in my perhaps-sheltered experience, it's executed in backyards while one awaits bratwurst from the barbecue... Hee, hee, no worries - in the UK too, most people's experience of badminton is playing with cheap 'badminton set' on the beach or in a back garden and it's like only ever seeing Crazy Golf, and then someone telling you that Golf is a real sport, or only ever seeing people lolling about in a jacuzzi, and then someone telling you that swimming is a sport ;-)

Was your argument about: A point? A foul? A ruling or call? Was it about the shuttlecocks? Were they old-school, constructed with [goose] feathers, and your opponents accused you of bringing a disease vector, or something like that? Was the goose/human infection going on around the same time?

Was your argument about: A point? NoA foul? NoA ruling or call? NoWas it about the shuttlecocks? YesWere they old-school, constructed with [goose] feathers Yes - though that's not old-school - the plastic ones are used a lot because they're cheaper, but the ones made of goose feathers are still the best and used by almost all 'good' players, where 'good' is 'a bit better than me' ;-)

and your opponents accused you of bringing a disease vector, or something like that? No

Was the goose/human infection going on around the same time? Yes

Were the [presumed] goose-feather shuttlecocks made in China? I recall that Asia was relevant... Or perhaps Viet Nam, Laos, Japan, N or S Korea, Cambodia...? Our were probably made in China, but might have been made elsewhere in Asia - doesn't matter which

If the shuttlecocks had been the cheap, plastic kind, would an argument have ensued? Is Asia only relevant in that it's where the shuttlecocks were made, or is there more to explore? Did one of your opponents make some disparaging remark about your shuttlecocks?

If the shuttlecocks had been the cheap, plastic kind, would an argument have ensued? No

Is Asia only relevant in that it's where the shuttlecocks were made, or is there more to explore? You've worked out that Asia is where the shuttles were made, and that Asia is where there were some infected geese. You know enough about Asia.

Did one of your opponents make some disparaging remark about your shuttlecocks? Yes

Did the disparaging comment about the shuttlecocks stimulate the argument? Did it pertain to "diseased goose feathers?" If your shuttlecocks were artisan, and made by some hobbyist dowager in the UK, would there have been an argument? And did you win the match? Did you finish it?

Did the disparaging comment about the shuttlecocks stimulate the argument? Yes

Did it pertain to "diseased goose feathers?" No

If your shuttlecocks were artisan, and made by some hobbyist dowager in the UK, would there have been an argument? Impossible to answer unless you were to provide me with a sample of this hobbyist's work

To clarify: if the shuttlecocks hadn't been made in Asia, would they have been disparaged? ...and the hobbyist's work is amazing.

If the shuttlecocks hadn't been made in Asia, they might still have been disparaged - it depends on which supplier we used.

If the UK hobbyist's work was amazing then I can say 100% certainly that we would not have been able to afford her work at normal market price. But if, for some reason, she gifted her shuttles to us for a cheap price, they would not have been disparaged.

If the same hobbyist lived in the middle of the worst-infected part of Asia, and still managed to produce amazing shuttles, and still gave them to us for a cheap price, they would not have been disparaged either.

So as a quick Recap for the benefit of anyone else who wants to join in:

A couple of years ago, an infection caused me to have an argument with some guys one evening. How?

=

A couple of years ago, an infection of birds, significantly of geese, chiefly in Asia, caused me to have an argument with my opponents one evening at a badminton match. The argument was about the shuttlecocks we played with - the vast majority of shuttlecocks (including the ones we were using) are made in Asia, out of goose feathers. How did the argument come about?

Did your opponents suggest that asian shuttlecocks might have transmitted goose disease? Did the disparaging comment suggest that Asians do their shuttlecocks of the feathers from geese massively slaughtered due to disease?

Did the goose disease bit concern something else than geese feathers in the shuttlecocks? The goose disease bit only comes into the story because it infects the type of geese whose feathers are used to make shuttlecocks.

Is the price of these shuttlecock relevant? In as much as our players are not rich enough to pay a lot more for shuttles than we already pay, yes.

Did your opponents make disparaging remarks about your shuttlecocks along the lines of, "You blokes can only afford shuttles made from diseased/slaughtered geese...!" ...although, being one who sleeps with feather and down pillows, I know that the source of same has not survived the harvest... no doubt all shuttlecocks including goose feathers involved avian corpses...

Did your opponents make disparaging remarks about your shuttlecocks along the lines of, "You blokes can only afford shuttles made from diseased/slaughtered geese...!" No - there was no mention of disease at all, or even of geese, they were disparaging about the shuttles for another reason

...although, being one who sleeps with feather and down pillows, I know that the source of same has not survived the harvest... no doubt all shuttlecocks including goose feathers involved avian corpses... You're nearer the mark with this bit. Lots of geese did die.

Combine that with the relevant part of Redwine's recent question: feathers from geese massively slaughtered due to disease and you'll be more on track.

Did your opponents imply that the shuttlecocks were of a bad quality? If so, due to the feathers? Did the comment imply that the shuttlecocks should become cheaper as there were more geese feathers available?

Did your opponents imply that the shuttlecocks were of a bad quality? Yes

If so, due to the feathers? They weren't that specific. The phrase was something like "it's impossible to play properly with these awful shuttles - they don't fly properly and you shouldn't be allowed to use them".

Did the comment imply that the shuttlecocks should become cheaper as there were more geese feathers available? I think this is a mixture of "No" and "FA"

Did the argument ensue as a result of some clever riposte by you or one of your teammates? Did one of you perhaps suggest that maybe they shouldn't hit them as if they were slaughtering geese? Or that maybe they should hie themselves to Asia to participate in the slaughter? Did the response to their disparaging comment mention geese at all, or the infection of them, or the ongoing slaughter?

Did the argument ensue as a result of some clever riposte by you or one of your teammates? No

Did one of you perhaps suggest that maybe they shouldn't hit them as if they were slaughtering geese? Or that maybe they should hie themselves to Asia to participate in the slaughter? No

Did the response to their disparaging comment mention geese at all, or the infection of them, or the ongoing slaughter? No - there wasn't really any mention of infection, of geese, or of slaughter, in the argument at all, from either side

Did you answer in relevant way to their comment? Did you try to defend the quality of your shuttles? Did you make a disparaging comment about their shuttles? Did you suggest to continue the match with their shuttle?

Did geese feathers become more easily available? NoCheaper? NoMore difficult to get? YesMore expensive? Yes(Because of the cull of infected geese, the numbers of geese dropped dramatically, and as a result there were fewer feathers around)

Did you refer to the fact that people started to be very careful with products from birds? No

Did you tell them that only their abilities, apparently not as good as yours, were to blame for their losing the game, not the shuttles? Did the shuttles become more expensive, as a result of limited access and growing prices of feathers?

Did the shuttles become more expensive, as a result of limited access and growing prices of feathers? Yes

Did you tell them that only their abilities, apparently not as good as yours, were to blame for their losing the game, not the shuttles? Not as bluntly as that, but I did imply it

So putting together what you've worked out, I think you've got the bulk of it, so rather than try to wring out any further details, I think it's time...

***************Spoiler***************

In the last few years, bird flu has been a worldwide issue, infecting birds - and at times humans - and causing millions of infected animals to die or be culled, and restrictions on movement of the animals or animal products.

One of the less obvious effects of this has been on the manufacture of feather badminton shuttlecocks. Each shuttle contains sixteen feathers from ducks or geese - the very best ones, so I'm told, being made from the left wing of particular geese (seriously - the right wing isn't as good, apparently!).

The vast majority of feather shuttles are made in Asia, where bird flu has has such an impact that the supply of feathers dropped so low that many manufacturers had to do one of three things: 1) Pay more, and charge more for the shuttles 2) Use inferior quality feathers 3) Stop manufacture completely

The result of this on the worldwide feather shuttle market was that the price of good quality feathers shuttles shot up, and at the same time, the availability dropped.

In our club, we couldn't afford to pay huge prices for the very best quality ones. But we play in a league where feather shuttles are mandatory because they're so superior to plastic ones.

So we bought a second-rate option which was perhaps made third-rate by the fact that they'd probably thrown in a few more naff feathers than usual.

At our match, against one of our main rivals in the league, we won 5-4. As tends to happen when grumpy men get beaten, they blame this on some easy target - and very quickly they were complaining to me, saying the shuttles weren't fit for playing badminton.

We did agree to an extent - I acknowledged they weren't to our usual standard, but this was due to the lack of availability and rising prices in the market, and there wasn't a lot we could do about that. And it was pointed out to them that the shuttles were the same for both sides, and although not amazing were of a more-than-acceptable standard for a third-division local league match. The implication therefore being that the reason they lost was because we're better than them ;-)

So they had a moan, threatened to complain to the local league, didn't bother, and then provided shuttles of no better a standard when we played the away match at their place!

One impact of all this is it does make you think more about the fact that these things don't just grow in sports shops - and wouldn't it be good one day to see for sale "Free Range Shuttlecocks"?

Particular well done to Yojimbo and Redwine who did the vast majority of this on their own! :-)

Thanks for the props; I'm going to miss this puzzle. And I also feel somewhat sheepish that it had not occurred to me that the avian disease would have impacted imports of avian products, the same as BSE has affected the world beef market. Should have explored that thread... I have a website where, among other things, I have a band name registry -- "The Rubbish Lads" is one, from the business name I saw on a trash-hauler's lorry in London -- so do you mind if I also include "Free Range Shuttlecocks?" Any idea what sort of genre they'd play? And thanks for an excellent puzzle.

This one might also have moved a bit quicker in the middle if anyone had happened on "racquet sports" as a question rather than "ball sports" since badminton is fairly conventional in its use of a racquet but unconventional in its lack of ball. Just depends how the questions come out!

I'm not planning on starting a band of the same name, so go for it ;-) In the UK, at least, keeping with my impression of badminton players sitting somewhere mid-way between the lively more aggressive people who play more mainstream team sports, and the less lively more passive people who have non-sporting hobbies, and in keeping with the 'free range' aspect, I imagine perhaps they'd play slightly folky type of stuff, or sort of more laid-back pop stuff like Norah Jones - something that would appeal to slightly quirky slightly middle-classy sort of people. But up to you - it's your band! ;-)

I must admit, you guys gave me quite a laugh a while ago in this puzzle. The sheer "Britishness" of the phrase "mak[ing] disparaging remarks about your shuttlecocks" tickled my funny bone. Well, that and of course the euphemistic qualities of the same phrase. It's just great. :-)

The main different between plastic and feathers shuttles, I believe (though no-one fully understands why, hence they find it hard to make better plastic ones) is around the speed they slow down.

Feathers ones start off a little faster, but slow down quicker, than plastic ones.

So if you hit the shuttle the full length of the court, a plastic one travels upwards, reaches its peak, and then comes down again. A feather one travels upwards, peaks further away from the hitter, but then slows down to land the same distance away.

The effect of this is that if you are the other person, a plastic one comes more straight-on at you, where as the feather one drops more vertically to you, because it peaked close to you, slowed down more, and then drops more on top of you.

Another effect is that when playing drop-shots, particularly if you slice across the shuttle as you hit it to give it a bit of spin, is that the feather shuttle dies more quickly after passing the net. This means that you can play better drop shots that get to the net faster, and then drop closer to the net, than plastic ones.

Feather ones also are less likely to give you tennis elbow - something to do with the fact they fly off the racquet strings quicker, so less time spent by your arm having to be in contact with it, or something like that.

Yonex Mavis plastic shuttles were amazing when they came on the market in the 1990s - so much so that all local leagues I've played in insist on all clubs using the Yonex shuttles if they play with plastics - in the 1980s, Carleton had much of the market but theirs were fairly dreadful in comparison, and before that they didn't really exist much, I think. Oddly, there hasn't been much progress since then, and the shuttles we use today are still Yonex Mavis ones.

If you want to make a few million, work out how to make a synthetic shuttle fly more like a feather shuttle than the Yonex ones ;-)

Thanks for the explanation, Psymann. Also, ooh, a challenge :-) Are there really that many people who play regularly? It's probably more of a British sport than an American one, but the only time I think I remember playing was in gym class one year. It's definitely not one of the "big four," shall we say.

In China, Indonesia, Korea, it's a massive sport, I believe. And of course in China particularly, there are a massive amount of people. So any sport that is popular in China does well on world statistics. At the All-England Championships in the UK, there are always loads of really vocal supporters from these countries.

In Europe it's really only played a lot in Denmark and the UK. No idea why Denmark particularly! I think also in other countries too to an extent, USA as well play a bit, but not that much.

In the UK, it's not 'popular' in the sense of people caring about it, but it is 'popular' in terms of participation.

I've played for twenty years or more, chaired two badminton clubs, but couldn't name you more than about ten international badminton players ever. I could probably name more of the current Spanish national football team than the current UK national badminton team! Even when UK won an Olympic bronze medal, there was only passing interest, and non-badminton players really don't care about the sport from a professional point of view.

But yet a lot of people play it. My local city, Sheffield, in the UK, has a population of approx 650'000 people roughly, if you include nearby Rotherham. Our local league has 38 different badminton clubs that play in the local leagues. There are doubtless many other clubs that play at a more social level, and aren't part of the league. In comparison, there are only 34 cricket clubs in the whole South Yorkshire league, covering Sheffield and wider, and cricket is a huge sport nationally.

When I was at university, the badminton club was the biggest sports club at the university, and second biggest society of any kind.

So it's sort of like Netball here - netball is played in almost every girls school in the country as one of the three major sports for girls. Yet I've seen it on TV about twice ever, and couldn't name you a single international netball player ever. Or squash - played by hundreds of thousands of people across the country, but again I've seen on TV about twice ever.

Badminton isn't one of the major sports played in schools, but it's one of the most common played outside school, and by adults in later life. Probably helped by the fact it's mostly played on weekday evenings and therefore doesn't take up your weekends, and in UK weather, being an indoor sport is an advantage!

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