Body is in GREAT shape. Some superficial rust behind the driver's wheel well. There's some worse rust on the passenger rear wheel well, so that will probably have to be cut out and replaced. But no dents, not even in the bumpers.

Interior's not in too bad of shape. Carpet could use replacement, and the seats could use recovering, but in pretty great shape otherwise.

Odometer shows 736xx miles. Owner claims "original". Given the wear to the car that's possible, but I never hold my breath on a 5-digit odometer car.

Question... what size of tires SHOULD this thing be wearing? Speedometer is WAY off, I think it may have the wrong size shoes on.

Believe it or not, rain is actually unsusual this time of year. It's something like only the 5th time it's rained on this date over the past 60 years.

I'll get some interior shots. I was in a hurry this morning (brought it home at 10pm last night, too late to get shots). It may take me a couple days though because I've got hot dates with my wife both tonight and tomorrow during the day.

(and the bumper sticker's gotta go.... not a football fan. or a bumper sticker fan for that matter. )

Apparently you were able to work it out and just buy it! I'm glad you got what you wanted finally. If you can't sell that rambler for $2k there is a serious problem. That is about what the paint job would cost, around here at least! Good luck with the hornet!

Good score! A '73!! Was that one on Craigslist advertised as a "Little old Lady" car? It looks familiar!

Tires should be what would work out to 195/75R14.

However, 205/70R14's look much better

Yes, it was the very same car. Saw the DMV paperwork in the glovebox indicating he was telling the truth about it. Also, the title was under his name and indicated "gift", which also indicates that's the story as well.

Thanks for the info on the tires, I'll check what it has later tonight.

70 Donohoue - If your gas cap still has the emblem intact, I may be interested. If you can send me pics through a PM, that would be great. Other than that, think all I will eventually need is part of the rear quarter assembly on the passenger side.

What tiresyou should have on it you say? some BIG N Lils i.e 15X10s on some 195 50 R15's and some 15X 4's in the front oh and some headers, a alum intake and a mild cam and a nice Holley 600 would wake that things up!

What tiresyou should have on it you say? some BIG N Lils i.e 15X10s on some 195 50 R15's and some 15X 4's in the front oh and some headers, a alum intake and a mild cam and a nice Holley 600 would wake that things up!

I think some Macheen wheels and 225 front/ 245 rear tires would look great. Your rear bumper is slightly tweaked on the left side and the rear valence under. Nothing a little hammer time or coaxing time wouldn't fix. Sharp ride. Steve

Just a thought, but maybe someone swapped in a different geared axle (or just swapped gears) for some reason. If the gear ratio is different than what was originally there, it will throw your speedometer off. Just a thought...

I'm somewhat doubtful that's the case, but just in case... dummy's way to check?

A quick way to check jack the rear up and support it because you have to get under it. Mark the drive shaft & the inside of 1 tire. If you don’t have a twin grip you will need to stop 1 of the wheels from turning before the checking. Now the checking put trany in neutral check where the marks are on the drive shaft & wheel, turn the shaft counting the turns, remember the marks, to make the wheel turn 1 complete turn. Now knowing the ratios AMC used you can get close with out pulling the cover & counting teeth. If the shaft turns less than 3 turns it would be 2.87, if 3 .5 turns it would be 3.54, etc. I dont know a way to know what came in the car Hope it helps. Dave ----

Got most of the rest of the stuff for the engine on order now. Got a Performer intake coming to me, there's a Holley 600cfm carb I should be able to pick up locally, and the re-ring kit is on its way.

Time to order a camshaft I guess.

Since I'm going to reuse the cam/dizzy gears (assuming I can actually FIND the dizzy in the box o miscellaneous crap), what/where would you guys suggest for a timing chain? (since I don't need the gears)

Since I'm going to reuse the cam/dizzy gears (assuming I can actually FIND the dizzy in the box o miscellaneous crap), what/where would you guys suggest for a timing chain? (since I don't need the gears)

The timing chain gears are different than the dizzy / cam gears. When you buy a timing chain (set) it comes with the cam gear, crank gear & chain. Every one says Rollmaster for the chain set. Dave ----

The timing chain gears are different than the dizzy / cam gears. When you buy a timing chain (set) it comes with the cam gear, crank gear & chain. Every one says Rollmaster for the chain set. Dave ----

See, this explanation is exactly why I'm confused.

I read the distributor gear horror story thread, and everyone says use the old, matched AMC cam and distributor gears. OK... so the cam gear is getting reused. I've not heard anyone say anything bad about reusing the CRANK gear, and I didn't see anything wrong with the old one, so I presume that's being reused... that's why I ask about a timing chain all by itself.

So what you're saying is buy a timing chain set and don't use the cam gear, or buy a timing chain set and use the new cam gear but the old dizzy gear?

This is a timing chain set small gear is crank gear, big gear is the cam gear. The chain keeps the crank & cam “timed” to each other. (pic from summit)

This is the dizzy gears. The long one is the dist gear and fits on the bottom of the dist. The round one fits on the end of the cam along with the fuel pump eccentric. This round gear drives the long gear on the dist.

So if you look at it the timing gear crank gear turns the timing chain moves the timing cam gear this gear is held on to the cam with fuel pump eccentric, the dizzy cam gear, flat washer and a bolt thru all this in to the cam. You are lucky I have a picture of the 360 drag motor. The crank has a 2nd crank gear on it in the picture that does not belong there but does show the oil slinger. You can see the chain and the 2 gears that go with it. Then you can see the cam dizzy gear & fuel pump eccentric in front of the timing cam gear. Dave ----

OK, turns out I did still have the cam gear. I took it off the old cam today.

Plus I scored at the junkard. I found me some 14" rims. They're mostly cleaned up of the years of sitting around collecting dirt and rust, and will soon be ready to be painted and put on. There will be pix when they get installed.

There's a couple small areas in the bronzed areas where the paint came up with the tape (rrr....)... that happened on the silver on two rims, and I figured out that I could endlessly go back and forth between taping and painting the two parts and never get them perfect, or just reshoot the silver and be OK with some minor flaws in the less-visible bronze areas.

Hey, EV! A friend of mind found a spray on paint mask that works great for multiple colors. I don't know what it is--will try to find out. Ask at your local body shop supply place. You spray the stuff on, use a razor knife to get it off the places you want to paint, and spray away. When you are done, re-spray the mask and do same thing for area of 2nd color. The mask just peels off--kinda like rubber glue--without taking paint along.

I used the low tack green painters tape (as recommended by my body shop) and it worked great. I had zero lifting. My rims were media blasted and wiped with laquer thinner first though so they were really clean. A nice coat of etching primer and then paint.

Got the wheels mounted today, without trim rings or caps (workin on it!)

The last pic shows the worse of the two wheels where the tape pulled up bronze paint. It's really not that horrible, given that I don't intend this to be a show quality car. There IS clear over the whole wheel, so peeling shouldn't (hopefully) be a problem.

It's all personal choice really. I kinda dig Magnums with white walls.... kind of a sign of the times. The famous "Barrel Cuda" was originally ordered with Magnums and white walls - and it's a 440+6 car!

I have a buddy who thinks I'm insane. I like tan interiors, vinyl tops, white walls on Magnums and spoke hubcaps - everything he hates!! lol

My groovy gauge cluster that was going to go in my Gremlin (before I found an NOS w/ low fuel cluster) is basically a Hornet 3-hole cluster with some plastic modding done to the back so that Jeep Truck gauges fit in properly. It looks totally factory.

So, with that setup you have the Fuel/Temp on the left, Speedo center, Amps/Oil on the right.

I even made a wire swapper so you can plug everything in without hacking the Gremlin/Hornet wiring. You'll have to add one wire for the OP sender and two fort the ammeter though.

I used the older style truck gauges (70-72) so the font is kinda gothic looking. But the later style can be swapped in.

I don't have it here in Van, I took it home to my moms last trip home. BUT, I am going home for Thanksgiving (canadian version) which is weekend after next and I can grab it and bring it back.

I think I'll pass. My current gauge cluster is in good shape, only mod I'd want to make is to put a tach in on the right. And, in my own little craziness/insanity, I prefer voltmeters over ammeters anyway.

OK... got scanned price/order guide pages from a newer user that allowed me to retrace the likely configuration of the car from the factory (can't add in the price for the dealer-added A/C because I simply don't have that information.

Here goes... the sticker price of my car, in 1973, would have been $3034.30.

OK... well I'm mostly down for the winter, so now it's time for me to look forward to what's planned for the car.

Thanks to Kidjavelin, there will be a 401 sometime in this car's future.

There will be a little body work and repaint for this car, hopefully next year.

Also slated as "hopeful" for next year will be new carpet and reupholstered seats, plus changing the bench seat out for buckets.

On the "definite" but mundane list: remove broken dealer A/C system and put in a package shelf. Add some black-out trim to the dash. Replace nearly dead single-mode mirror with a good night/day mirror from a Concord. Finish mounting for MP3 player and correct the +12v memory wiring issue.

Finally, on the "maybe... hey, it would be cool!" wish list... Cut out for a hood scoop and air box using spare hood. Send off the spare instrument panel I have to Dakota Digital and get some custom digital gauges made.

I went with a 9-1/2 inch diameter hole on a '69 AMX with the S/S style scoop. Could have gone larger, but it was large enough to allow an 8-1/2 dia. filter to stick through. K&N Catalog has a formula to size filter based on cubic inches, rpm, and filter diameter. Actually works off of surface area of filter, larger diameter filter can be shorter. Running a paper element filter for now, will replace with a similar sized K&N later on. Size of the Filter currently being used is 5 inch ID x 8 inch OD x 4-3/8 inch tall Just a little bit short per the calculator, but it's as tall as will fit under the scoop. If the hole in the hood was larger, then the required filter could be shorter but since the hood is painted, not real hip on enlarging the hole.

Also, if desire is for the hole to be centered on the Carburetor, the carb is NOT centered in the engine compartment, it is offset to one side, passenger side iirc, due to steering shaft. So, if desire is for the hole to be centered on the carb, make some careful measurements.

This past summer, made a custom "ram-air" hood seal air cleaner for it out of aluminum.

I did the same as Phat did and cut a hole just a little bigger than the filter. As said it may not be centered. You can put a longer stud on the carb so when you close the hood (slowly) it put s dimple in the hood as a starting point. Then knowing how wide the scoop and the filter is you can figure how big a hole you want or need. Once you know the size hole drill a small hole where the dimple is from the carb stud get a nail & string. Put a loop in 1 end of the string and loop it over the nail & nail in hole drilled. You then measure out the hole size and using the string / nail to mark a nice circle. Then get out the jig saw and go to town! At least you have another hood just think how it feels when you only have 1 I kept it in the family with my scoop Mopar 6pak Dave ----

My air cleaner is short... possibly even shorter than the stock air cleaner. So unless the Holley carb is massively taller than the original carb, clearance is not an issue.

My plan is to draw the circle, drill a hole somewhere inside the circle to make clearance for the blade, and use a jigsaw with a fine metal blade to do the job. This an ok plan of attack?

Most of the time it's not the air cleaner or carb, It's the intake that is taller than the stock one.

Did you rear my post above? As said it may not be centered. You can put a longer stud on the carb so when you close the hood (slowly) it puts a dimple in the hood as a starting point. Then knowing how wide the scoop and the filter is you can figure how big a hole you want or need. Once you know the size hole drill a small hole where the dimple is from the carb stud get a nail & string. Put a loop in 1 end of the string and loop it over the nail & nail in hole drilled. You then measure out the hole size and using the string / nail to mark a nice circle. Then get out the jig saw and go to town! At least you have another hood just think how it feels when you only have 1

Yes there could be other ways of doing it I just think my way is the better way If you dont want to scratch the paint from the saw pad on the hood cover the pad with duct tape. Dave ----

Hornet is spending the night in the exhaust shop getting a new dual exhaust system fabbed up and put in. The slowdown: I'm an idiot, and noone ever told me that when you put in headers, you need header bolts... that the ones that came with the exhaust manifold won't work.

This means I miss the local tech meet, where I had hoped to get help with cutting the scoop hole (they have a plasma cutter!)

This means I miss the local tech meet, where I had hoped to get help with cutting the scoop hole (they have a plasma cutter!)

Guess now I have to do at home with the jigsaw.

As nice as the TV shows show the plasma cutter to be is not all it is cracked up to be. I have a plasma cutter for sheet metal and it has it's place but for the hood scoop hole jigsaw is the way to go. Dave ----

I'm currently all kinds of pissed. A little at myself, mostly at the exhaust shop.

I took the car in at about 12:40pm yesterday. Took it directly to the shop manager. He said he'd get his guys on it at 1, right after they got off lunch. He said he'd TRY to get it done on Friday, but it was most likely going to be today. I checked it in anyway, figuring that was going to be unavoidable no matter where I went.

Got a call a little while later saying it would DEFINITELY be today that it would be done, due to having to clearance the strut rods and also obtain header bolts (both my fault for not figuring out that either of those were necessary... noob stupidity).

Called them 20 minutes ago and now they're saying only SLIGHT chance of it being done today, but most likely MONDAY... WTF!?

They've had 4 hours yesterday and 4 hours so far today to get this straightened out. I haven't approved that much labor. I know they were waiting for a while idle yesterday for the header fasteners, but one would think they would at least use the time they had to start clearancing the strut rods YESTERDAY, not TODAY?!

More clarification after I visited the shop: The headers will not sit flush on the head on the passenger side due to a bolt on the backside of the engine crossmember. They are thinking about heating and massagin the headers, but will not take authorization from *ME* to go ahead with it, they decided that they will stop work AGAIN and not touch it until their shop manager is back on Monday.

And we still don't know if the frigging starter will fit.

But I just love that as the customer I have no input.

Or that the shop manager GUARANTEED that the car would be done today, and that was just completely shat on by his employees.

This also endangers the timing for getting the car in for its paint appointment, I now SERIOUSLY doubt i will be done with cutting the hood before it's scheduled to go in on wednesday.

Welcome to the wonderful world of getting jerked around After I finished my Hornet, I talked Midas about them doing a nice dual system. They said no. Their books said Hornet in '75 never had dual exhaust and MUST have a catalytic converter. No Custom exhaust? No sale. Had to trailor the car (no exhaust) one town over to my buddies shop. $400 for complete duals w/ crossover and nice mufflers. Very pleased.

Of course, over the years, my buddies shop has become one of the best places in town to go. He's honest, priced well and does fantastic, quality work. Took my Javelin to him last August 10. Job was: new dual system, remove headers/install manifolds provided. Remove busted tranny, install rebuilt and new converter. Since the car'd been sitting for close to three years, I told him to go through the brakes as well.

September 7th comes around and I'd planned to attend a cruise that night and a show the next morning. He had to work until 8pm that night to finish the car! He had an entire month and I missed my cruise-in. Granted he did have one worker quit and his wife got sick..... but a month to do 3 days worth of work?

I slyly asked if I could take 4 weeks to pay him. Haha.

$hit happens Grasshopper, ya just gotta roll with it and not let it bother ya. Like today when the tire shop didn't tighten the lugs on my right front wheel on my Tiburon and a block later.......

*sigh* I had a great saturday

You may want to talk to Ken or Tony. There may be some applications available for the "Do it Twice" club.

You know, header installation is a pregnant dog. I put my headers on at least 5 times to get them to fit, clear head bolts, spark plugs, clearance for the header bolts themselves, and I knew I had to juggle the starter and steering for clearance. The Hornet is called a "small car" for a reason so your experience is going to be even worse. Why on earth would you take a trial and error job to a professional shop? If you want a custom exhaust, you pretty much have to do it yourself because it just is not cost effective to pay someone to put headers on. Sounds like both you and the shop manager assumed this was an undo 6 bolts, swap parts, replace 6 bolts kind of a job, and you both should have known better. Now that you're into it, the trick on the starter is to get the header more or less in place with the starter removed, put the front header bolt in place and let the header hang down, install the starter, and then pull the headers up and finish bolting them in place. The small cars if I remember right, still looking forward to my rambler, also have a problem with strut rod bracket clearance, but someone else will have to help you there. The bolt on the crossmember comment is a mystery to me, sometimes you have to rock the engine up and off the mounts to get the header in place.....could that be the problem? good luck, hopefully by Monday it will all be worth it. ralfy

I learned a long time ago that the engine in a Hornet needs to be lifted enough so you can lay the headers in place in the engine compartment. You then lower the engine and raise the headers until they meet. Put the 2 end bolts in, lower the engine onto the mounts and bolt everything up. Of course, put the starter in before you lower the engine all the way. A stock starter should fit, but it might be pretty close to the header. The only bolt on the crossmember that I can think of is the bolt that holds the lower control arm onto the crossmember. You're better off renting--or buying--an engine hoist and getting a friend to help. It'll cost you less in the end.

This particular shop has done 2 custom exhausts for me before and done a very good and quick job, but this is just an absolutely unheard of experience frm them.

They already knew about the strut rod part and were working on adjusting clearance there, but they weren't apparently prepared for the rest of this. Of course, the shop manager is the guy with the most experience and apparently WAS scheduled in on Saturday, but one of his underlings volunteered to work to give him the day off. Said underling apparently doesn't have enough experience to figure this out. Odd, because he's older than dirt... older than his manager, too. Must be a new career path for him.

Oh, and Ralf... I don't know what makes you believe that I should have "known better", given that nearly all of my experience is with 4 cylinder transverse engines, which DON'T have these problems. So I had assumed that everything would be honky-dory because, IME, headers just work. period.

not sure which headers your using but the stock starter will fit in the small body's with headman headers, been there done that sort of thing, i got hookers now with a aftermarket starter and there's tons of room now as dennis and ralf said its not easy to do with everything in the engine bay, the engine needs to be jacked up about 3-4 inches and remember to remove the good spark plugs and replace with junkers for this as you will probably break a couple with the header flange

EV-- My SC/360 has a stock V* starter, un-modified V8 crossmember, and stock location strut rods. If your headers were made for a Gremlin/Hornet, they should fit with no clearance problems except for a tight fit. If there's a problem with a bolt on the crossmember, either the headers weren't made for a Hornet/Gremlin, or it's the wrong bolt, or it's installed improperly.

First, the plug idea, then the fact the strut rod works then the fact of just the front bolt in and let the headerhang down then push the starter up in place Now for the extra help you need. You must use a starter from 74 and older, the one with a bolt on the side of the body. Not the one with a tab on the end of the body75-up with a 3/8 head bolt. It will hit the tube. Next let the header hang down like Ralph suggested. Mark the crossmember where the tube touches it and you can shave away the metal the about a 1/4 to 3/8 inch at most. This allows plenty of starter install room. Is tight but can be done with it in the mounts. If you remove the mounts from block bolts and loosen the pad bolts lift it, it helps but can be done either way with 1 5/8 headers. Make sure to put more heat covering on the starter wire and the fender well brace so it doesn't hit the tube. Put high temp silicone on the heads and headers, if you have hedman 98310's stock manifold gaskets seal better. However I Never use any gaskets just the Black perma tex silicone with a big bead of it in each surface. Then wipe it up after tightening.Be sure to start the tight tube bolts first or you won't be able to get them to fit. Now the Bolt for lower control arm. Mark the control arm spot with paint on the washer and remove bolt reverse it retighten. Now the dipstick issue, cut the header port brace out between the rear and center cyls. Now the kickdown, remove the two bottom bolts IE the front bell cover. Take the rod off the trans at the kickdown lever and the kickdown linkage it is hooked to on the other end,[ next to where you took out the 2 -1/2 headed bolts].Remove it off the carb so it swivels around. This avoids taking out the 5/8 headed bolt on the back of the head which will be hard to put in with the headers in place.. You can put these headers on with it in the mounts. Just follow the directions slowly it should take you about 2 1/2 hrs at most. Since it is new to you. Print this and bring it to the shop for the big cheese to read, he will appreciate it. Oh also a 1971 SC/360 exhaust card will give you the dual exhaust bends. SH

The hood scoop hole, a air nibbler is what my son used to do his moms, a jig saw will be fine. Measure from the cowl to the air cleaner bolt. Next from the fendr by the shock on each side to the air cleaner bolt. this will be center. Take your air element and set it on the hood draw around it. Run a bead of 3/4 tape around that and cut the outside of the tape. You neen that much room for the engine reving up to shift. Take your hood off at the shop and do it at home, monday evening. That way it'll still be getting done Before body shop day. Just bolt it back on and have them adjust it for you. Or paint the hinge area before removal, this way you'll get it close. SH

OMG! I thought I was the only one pullin out my hair on this!...My trans grenaded and I had to pull everything...(almost 2hrs removing headers!). Just wanted to say thanks to you guys for the encouragement you are providing and I look forward to sharing my future kills with all of you on the SC360 clone I have.... Ray

As I've mentioned, no idea what the headers actually are. they were obtained used. They are supposedly Hedmans, but the metal flange that Hedman normally stamps their p/n's on appears to be missing. They were somewhat similar to (but not the same as) the confirmed CJ5 Hedmans I saw the day earlier.

Can you post a photo I can tell if they will fit like nothing that way. I need the photo of them right where they go to the head. That is best. Also a side view. The ones for your car, will come out of the ports and drop right away off the ports down. The cyclone brand and other cheapies did not put the port connectors on them. However they were for larger cars. The Jav body ones come out of the port about 1 1/2 inch and then drop. They do not fit. I suppose since the car is at the shop you cannot today? I wish I could do photo's then I could send you a photo of what they should look like. Something is messed up so I cannot load any. By the way SC/360 clone guy you do not have to remove your headers to get the trans out. Pull it back 2 inches and turn the bell toward driver side and it will fit through, tight but it will. It is better without thelines on it.SH

i think your best bet time and money wise is to get yourself a set for small body cars (gremmy/ hornets) even if you have to go new.....i think you'll be ahead of the game at that point JMO

i had a set i gave to a member a while back for the cost of shipping.....maybe post something in the wanted section for a cheap set. if i had another set i'd give them to you. sorry but i think your with these headers

Ok, my "should of known better" comment was rude, but you asked for it in the N/A thread, and I did make it with the benefit of hindsight. So, sorry. But the guys at the shop should have, and get paid to, know better. So, I still hope this works out for you, good luck. ralfy

Welcome to the wonderful world of getting jerked around After I finished my Hornet, I talked Midas about them doing a nice dual system. They said no. Their books said Hornet in '75 never had dual exhaust and MUST have a catalytic converter. No Custom exhaust? No sale. Had to trailor the car (no exhaust) one town over to my buddies shop. $400 for complete duals w/ crossover and nice mufflers. Very pleased.

Years ago when I dropped off my 75 Gremlin to get price to replace the stock single they said it would take a day just to get the parts, guess they would not bend them? Well I asked about doing dules and he said some thing about a cat too. I told him did he see one on the car, did it list one in any of the parts books and lastly did the door or under hood say it should have a cat? He said “you know I don’t remember seeing any thing about a cat?” well he gave me a price for duels came out cheaper for duels than stock single. The job was ok as I think they rushed it, I was not really in a rush, as it could have been bent better I think. Dave ----

First a picture will help identify the headers, the Bigger car ones will be obviously different than the 390 Spirit Photo's. Don't get sad yet. You should print the photo's and my how to do it post. Go to the shop and check it out. If headers look the same, or smilar they should work as I told you. I have a lot of experience in this dept. I have no interest in steering anyone wrong. Dave the nibbler will only eat what it can or stop in it's tracks, won't hurt the tool. A Hornet hood has no brace in the way for scoop hole.SH

Sorry to hear about your set back EV, sounds like a page out of my thread, and yes the Ken club is currently accepting applications.... Keep us posted, hopefully the exhaust shop will get it figured out first thing tomorrow morning for ya. I am so glad I decided to go with the Eddy shorty headers, might give up a couple HP that I wont use on the street anyway, but wow, will they save me a lot of grief!!

EV the stock manifolds might be the best bet at this time. I say this because you get the duels you want and down the road if you go headers if shorties should bolt up or if you go long tube it should be easy to hook up to the duels. I used stock manifolds & duels, no cross over on my stock 304 Gremlin and it sounds so much better, like a hot rod! Dave ----

Ok, the headers are very obviously for a large car. Useless scrap metal to me. Scratch that, scrap metal would be more useful to me because it would piss me off less.

Of course, the shop wants money for all the work they've put in to figure out that this isn't going to work, and I can't really argue or back out without getting a mechanic's lien on the car because to put it back the way it was will cost within 10% of the original written estimate. RRRRR!

So now I'm seeing if they're competent enough to put in a dual system using stock manifolds (probably not, seeing as how they "had" to cut off the disconnected air pump pipes to get the manifolds out.. NVM the fact that my regular mechanic didn't need to in order to get the bloody things off).. he kept trying to tell me he could get Edelbrock headers for $200 in a week (yeah f-ing right, like I believe a thing you tell me now, jerkwad).. Kept trying to dissuade me from doing anything other than letting my car sit there until a "Smaller" set of headers came in. I kept explaining to him that wasn't going to happen.. Finally he started cutting SOME costs down and agreeing to do the backup plan when I started yelling so loud in the shop that his customers in the showroom could hear.

BUT... I'm still getting anally raped on the price. So bad that now I am forced to sell the 401 just to get up enough scratch for body/paint.

And every time I try a formula for saving money on parts/service that works for ANYONE else here on the board, it frigging backfires on ME!

Sorry to hear about your shop experience brother, that sucks.... I thought I read somewhere that the Eddy Shortys dont work on the small cars because of the steering column.... maybe so maybe not, thought I read that somewhere.... hope it gets better for ya man....

It's a manifold-back dual system, and I ended up having to pick up a set of Flowmasters locally because they were they only thing I could find in-stock that had the requisite offset outlet (thank you very much Summit... all they list for Hornets are CENTER outlets, which run the pipe right into the gas tank)

But I was given a full tour of the exhaust system before I paid, and at least I can say the quality of work is very good, and the guy put a lot of thought into routing and design.

Will get a clip of the sound shortly. Have to wait for my wife to get off work so I can go home and maybe play with it for a minute.

The whole fiasco of having them take off the manifolds and find out the headers didn't fit was a $350 extra kick to the groin that is going to take a while to recover from. So my advice to small-body owners: Unless you're doing a full-blown race vehicle, headers aren't worth it.

Pixorz of the engine bay now (yup, the cam, intake, and carb are all done)

I realize now I probably have WAAAAY too small of an air filter. Meh, that's probably the cheapest mistake I've made recently. Here goes...

Much less junk in the engine bay without the A/C stuff installed.

The good news: It felt like it had quite a bit more spunk. Also, the choke on the new carb works WAY better than the old carb, so less stalling at startup.

The bad news: It seems to have a slight flooding problems on quick stops... and on another stop after chugging up a long hill, it started spewing smoke out the passenger side of the car... it stopped pretty quickly, but I didn't want to push it after that. I'm just hoping that it was oil leftover from the work or something like that...

Sorry to hear the manifolds had to go back. The headers are a very good add on for mileage as well as sound as well as performance. I got to thinking today at work that I replied to a post awile back about 20 or 30 dollar headers, was that yours? I will back the Hedman 98310 cheap set, have bought and installed over 15 sets on my own cars. I have also put them on buddies cars. All wih good results. It is a better idea to do the work yourself, if possible. Most shops have no interest of playing on old cars. Unfortunately they have to make a living too. Not saying that I don't think the bill is kind of senseless since you are back to the same thing. I am assuming the duals were extra? At least you'll make the body shop appointment for tomorrow though! SH

Capt will love the engine color! What spring are you using on the secondaries? Did you set the float level on the carb? Lastly you are correct the air cleaner is way to small. Before doing any thing take it for a drive without the air cleaner and see if it is still flooding out a bit. Nice RUST FREE engine bay! I ignored the battery area. SH

No possibility of that. No equipment, and the door of my garage is only a few inches above the car itself (as in, can't park the Tucson in there!) so no way to lift the car far enough to do any exhaust work, even if I DID have the equipment.

Quote:

Not saying that I don't think the bill is kind of senseless since you are back to the same thing. I am assuming the duals were extra? At least you'll make the body shop appointment for tomorrow though! SH

Yeah, the duals were extra. Would have actually been pretty decently priced if the other work hadn't been tacked on there. I can't fault that too much, that was a significant drop from what he was ORIGINALLY going to charge me for how much work had been put in to figure that out. Having the car out of my possession for 4 days blew chunks though.

And no, I won't make the body shop appointment. The hole for the hood scoop still hasn't been cut, obvously because the car has not been in my possession, and it's too late to do so tonight.

I also have to figure out how much of this crap I can send back to Summit, and how much I'm going to have to eat by having to resell it on craislist.

Yeah man,you got hosed by them @$$HOLE noloads! Show us a pic of the headers if you can as a reg 1' 5/8's set of headers isn't that hard to install. oh and i saw the vids and the car sounds great btw dude!

Sounds good Ev Sorry to hear about all the trouble you had. I know what ya mean about finding an exhaust shop that cares to work on older cars. I believe it all comes down to this. Very few of the younger generation know how to bend pipe. Same thing in my case. If it wasnt for older manager working, the younger crew would have been S.O.L. the day i took my amx in.

Will have to wait to post pics of the headers. they are stowed right now. We have two seasons out here... "wet" and "really wet". Guess which one we're in right now? (it's currently snowing about 90 miles north of me...)

It sounds nice EV! I tried to load the 2nd one and it was taking 7 min for 5 sec. So I skipped it. Sorry you had to endure all the hassle and expense . It is snowing here for 3-4 inches was -26 mon morn. Be happy at least you just have rain, and the heat isn't running all the time in the shop. I was in the shop half the day on SUN and it was just running and running, wasting more cash SH

Sounds Great. And guess what? You wont drag the exhaust off over speed bumps, you won't have to spend every second saturday fixing header leaks, you won't burn the plug wires off and you can drive for the next 3-4 years without ever working on your exhaust again. Congrats

It's funny though, I had some exhaust problems too. I put free-flow manifolds on my 304 when it went back in and spent two days trying to figure out why I couldn't get the engine to settle back on. The stud on the manifold was just catching on the strut rod bracket and wouldn't allow the engine to fully seat. Took a while for me to notice.

OK, first the requested pics of the headers. I'm not sure why you guys are so darn keen on seeing them, since the exhaust work is now in the past, and nothing that can be said right now will magically make them materialize on the car.

And now...

*insert brand new string of expletives here*

OK, so it's still periodically smoking as I drive it along. Finally, tonight I was able to get it home as it was smoking and it look like there is oil spraying all over the passenger side of the engine bay near the firewall. Pics attached of what I am seeing:

PLUS... the car feels/sounds like the transmission is slipping. I can be cruising along maintaing 30 MPH and you can definitely hear the engine revving up. It also at times feels like it has no power... I mean, the engine gets moving but the car doesn't move so fast as it should.

On the bright side, it can breathe now... new air cleaner (14"x3"):

I am seriously very close to my last thread with this whole POS situation. Can someone explain to me exactly what the charm is with these hunks of scrap metal? (Reference to old detroit iron, not AMC per se)

Is that engine oil or dirty ATF? Trans slipping would indicate low fluid, and the "oil" is all over your engine bay. I originally thought valve cover gasket, but there's fluid on TOP of you valve cover! Not to mention your dipstick tube is wet and not fully seated.... makes me think tranny fluid.

Just want to say those headers WILL fit your car,unless they are not dogleg ports. Haard to see from the pic But it looks like they are. But who the hell cares now right? You moved on! Anyway I probably shouldn't have told you that. They just didn't try hard enough. Keep on hand for the 401 later. Now I tried to look at you photo's to see if you put the kickdown on carb but cannot see well enough. May have to remove Air cleaner and photo. Or did it work after carb and intake for a while and they removed part of it for header monkey business? SH

Kickdown is NOT installed, I was told that it would have to be drilled or something. Didn't have the time/money to invest in it at the time. Of course, I didn't know that it could lead to transmission damage, or I would have taken care of it..

Shouldn't need to be drilled. What I have done is take a 7/16 head bolt pass it through the lowest hole in the throttle levr[the one with the pin for cable] put a nylon lock nut on. then put kickdown on the stud then another nylon locking nu. DO NOT TIGHTEN NUT ALL THE WAY JUST CLOSE TO THE SLIDER ALLOWING IT TO RELAX. Put the linkage spring on so it pushes it foward on the bolt. Now have wife floor gas and push the rear part [by firewall] all the way back and pull the front part up against the 2 nylon bolt. Now tighten the slider bolt on linkage, the one with a 3/8 head. You MUST have kickdown linkage on at ALL times with a 998 904 727. Or the problems you are having will occur.SH

Man your letting clowns work on your ride dude! like said already,them headers woulda fit. Save them for the 401 or 360 when you get it. and when you start modded old stuff without a fresh rebuild,your gonna break stuff. That car prob was some lil ole blue haired ladys car and was never driven over 50 mph and now that you've added a aftermarket exhaust and intake and carb things like internale parts of the trans will let go on ya so Ya gotta plan your buildups right and make sure things like your trans is healthy enough for the hi po stuff you plan on putting on your ride. If I were you i wouldn't put anymore serious money until you build up the existing motor i.e fresh rebuild or a bigger engine. but if whats wrong is easily or relitively easy to fix then go for it.

It's been run probably a total of 30 or 40 miles over the course of a week (20 or so of them were the run down the river road and back) without the kickdown.

Obviously noone ever mentioned that (re: kickdown). Nor would I have thought to ask. Again...a child of the fuel injection era. I'll go get some fluid for it sometime this weekend. Since I am an absolute idiot, I HAVE to ask this question, so I don't screw it up any further: I know there are different "types" of ATF. What type do I need to buy for it?

As far as a fresh rebuild of a motor, that's not in the cards, at least not for 3 years. Limited budget, limited skills, and noone close by that can reliably help me with it (Kidjavelin has a life, it wouldn't be fair for me to ask HIM to build the darn car for me too). 401's not in any shape to be dropped in right now, besides the fact that I REALLY need to liquidate it to cut my losses from other stuff that has gone poorly.

As it sits, it looks like paint and body will have to be postponed indefinitely. If things keep going this way, it won't even be this year, much less by the start of cruising season.

Instigator - I understand that you're trying to help me, but it's all going over my head. I need pictures... and I know you can't upload them due to your slow conection...

I am really REALLY pissed at this whole project. If I didn't already have too darn much money wrapped up in it, the thing would be on Craigslist first thing tomorrow morning.

I went through your whole thread...Unless I missed something, you had trouble with a used set of headers and did not hook up your kickdown linkage. I could not tell from the thread wether you built the engine or just bought/added some parts.

And now your pissed and wanting to sell the car? My advise to you is cut your losses and sell the car. If paint and bodywork keeps you from cruising...this ain't a hobby for you.

You asked what is the charm with these hunks of scrap metal?? You answered that when you videoed yourself driving home from the muffler shop so you could share it with other AMC geeks. Remember the feeling you had 1/2 way home from the muffler shop, after you got over the money you spent, and you were just digging the way your car sounded and felt?......That is what it's all about.

When I add a new pony to the stable, I usually go through all those whether it needs it or not. Call it paranoia, but I always feel I'd rather roll around knowing I've checked or replaced a part than wondering what's going to break next. I pretty much bank on an additional 1000-1500 in parts & service after buying a new toy.

I'm hardly anybody to be offering sage advice but in a couple months when you get everything together, you'll look back and laugh.

EV, I cant tell you if the linkage on your 998 is close or the same as a 727 but here are several pics from many different angles of my old linkage before I got rid of it. Assembled the linkage outside the car and took pics to help a friend out and glad I kept the pics caused I have used them several times since. Anyhoo, hope they help a little...

Good job Capt! This is how it looks all assembled. I have to go to work and my sick wife will see if she can get some photo's to get in phoro bucket. If she can't, I'll send you a PM with phone #, to help. my E=mail at home I know I can send them to you there. This will show How I make it fit at carb. Very easy. Dextron-mercon trans fluid, the newer bottles will say dextron3 mercon. It will work.SH

Here are the pics Shannon wanted me to post- only took me 90min.- high speed internet cannot come soon enough. They are even smaller files. He told me to tell you that he will explain more about photos if you need when he gets home from work. Don't give up on your project- the process of problem-solving is one of the things that makes working on cars challenging- it makes it all the more sweet when everything works how it should. It's nice that the Forum is available to share victories and frustrations with each other. And when you work on cars- you don't have 1 without the other. Bobbi

OK, I'll have to look at mine when I get home as well. I know with 100% certainty that's a different carb than I've got, the fittings on the front driver's side are different (and that's with only having glanced briefly at it when I changed out the air cleaner yesterday)

Y'know, I have no problem helping ya out EV. When I come down next weekend to exchange some parts, I can help ya set up the kickdown or whatever you need. I don't have a life, so why not spend some time doing something constructive?

there is a weird failure that I had on a roadrunner once, the bracket that held the transmission lines wore through, and the little pin hole that you could barely see sprayed fluid all underneath the car, which as you have seen makes a lot of smoke. worth a shot. ralfy

First, the carbs I use are 750 Holley 3310-s on the auto cars. So you are correct it is not exactly the same, but should look the same on the throttle bracket. Next never mind the air cleaner, it's from a 340hp 258. I borrowed the one from it for one of our other race cars. Your kickdown will have a flat piece of metal instead of the coat hanger looking design. It changed in 75 to this style. You can use what you have and it fits fine. Just follow my adj info onthe earlier post. And make sure to put a retun spring on it as you see in Bobbis' 78 AMX photo's. I will send a pm so if or when it is too much to figure out calll me. Also Thank You to Capt, those photo's saved Nurse Bobbi alot of time SH

Y'know, I have no problem helping ya out EV. When I come down next weekend to exchange some parts, I can help ya set up the kickdown or whatever you need. I don't have a life, so why not spend some time doing something constructive?

Shouldn't need to be drilled. What I have done is take a 7/16 head bolt pass it through the lowest hole in the throttle levr[the one with the pin for cable] put a nylon lock nut on. then put kickdown on the stud then another nylon locking nu. DO NOT TIGHTEN NUT ALL THE WAY JUST CLOSE TO THE SLIDER ALLOWING IT TO RELAX. Put the linkage spring on so it pushes it foward on the bolt. Now have wife floor gas and push the rear part [by firewall] all the way back and pull the front part up against the 2 nylon bolt. Now tighten the slider bolt on linkage, the one with a 3/8 head. You MUST have kickdown linkage on at ALL times with a 998 904 727. Or the problems you are having will occur.SH

OK... I know we talked about this earlier but it fell out of my brain. When doing the adjustment I tighten the bolt on the center of the linkage. Do I EVER fully tighten the lock nut on the makeshift linkage?

Also... I thought a 7/16 looked way too big for the hole in the carb's kickdown, and I was right... even a 5/16" is too big. Perhaps you meant 7/32? or maybe a 1/4?

Sorry to hear of all your bolt confusion, I said 7/16 head size, even on the phone to you. I always say it that way because alot of guys have misc bolts laying around, they are not reading the 1/4 on the store bin. Just using what they have up. I also say the bolt head size so you know you are on the correct one. Like 9/16 power steering bracket bolts, you wouldn't have any idea of the bolt dia since you already would have it and just need wrench size. Anyway sorry to confuse you and have to make extra trips to the store.Just trying to help. SH

Adjustment is easy. Carb at Wide open, Kickdown should be all the way back. Tighten nut. Loosen off as necessary, but essentially when you're driving, if you hit the pedal full throttle, it should automaticaaly gear down. A 1973 998 (assuming it is the original tranny) should not have part-throttle kickdown.

OK... got the car started and pulled halfway out of the garage so I could idle it up to tempand check the fluid. I added nearly *4* quarts before it was full. I was going to test the trans, but can't get the darn carb to idle now. See thread in previous post.

EV did you ever try and adjust the idle mixture? you need to do this with the car fully warmed up. If it still won't idle you might need to adjust the secondary idle, which requires you to remove the carb, as the adjustment screw is accessible from underneath (i love my Holleys but that, along with you have to install a power valve saver on the old ones is just dumb) Another tuning tip for idle, sometimes idle just gets better when you crank up the timing. Great to hear that the trans seems to have survived, tuning is just tuning, and eventually I can talk you through it. ralfy

glad to hear things are working out. I've gotten pissed so many times, but when you finally get it figured out it sure feels great - so I share your enthusiasm. Funny thing I've noticed: figuring it out takes anywhere from 4 hours to 3 days, but once you determine the solution it takes like 20 minutes to implement it

Just loosen the 3/8 head blot and lenghten the kickdown 1/2 then retighten. be sure your shiny new spring is allowing it to retun backward toward fire wall. unless you have the slider 7/16 nut a bit too tight. WD-40 on it and see that it moves freely and try again. SH

Forgot to mention, do you hear any high pitched squealing? or have you knocked off any vaccuum lines? Poor idle is sometimes caused by the vac leaks, along intake or carb. Turn up the idle so it runs and spray ether -starting fluid along those seams or base of carb. and if engine revs up it leaks. SH

Here's a bunch of Videos from back in the day that may help you. They're really old school and cheesy, but provide a lot of really good information! (Funny thing is, I'm only 28, but I remember watching these in my High School shop class ) Check out the one on ignition systems. Has some basic carb tuning info there as well.

That is good info, Victory... but if you have some time when you come down this weekend, I'd like you to check over it with me to make sure I don't break it again... hehe

Instigator - the spring is allowing the kickdown to return as (presumably) normal. The slider DOES stick, but the nut isn't tightened. In fact, I can see daylight between the nut and the washer, so I don't know why it's binding. Going to full throttle is a sure-fire way to un-stick it.

I have no idea what to say about the throttle bracket from the other post. Obviously, I didn't do the work so i don't know why the stock throttle bracket wasn't reused. Or maybe that was the bracket that was attached and it was, and the original is long gone. No clue... solutions using the bracket that's there?

One has two pairs of bolt holes and can be used for two or four barrel applications. The other has only one set of bolt holes and is 2-barrel specific. I'm running an Edelbrock on my Hornet and used the stock bracket as mine had two sets of holes.

Your bracket does look awfully close to the linkage - are you sure you're getting Wide Open Throttle?

Yup, I can give your Hornet the ol' once-over. I only wish I could bring mine down!

Tranny lines possibly too close by the linkage on side of trans, maybe they bent them while trying the header install, and wont allow full travel both ways. If wide open unsticks it, then it is staying on kickdown too long. Meaning it is not returning all the way. It must have binding interferance somewhere. You'll have to locate that and be sure it can move, you should not need to readjust it then. If you dont have the original throttle bracket, bend that one back to make the full throttle stroke or purchase a long piece of flat metal and mount the one you have back another inch. As you can see in the photo's a stock one is about that far. SH

The kickdown linkage isn't binding anymore. The piece that bolts to the carb was slightly warped, which was causing it not to retract on the slider. It's better now. Victory says that piece is too short, though... and at 3/4 throttle, the kickdown linkage is already pulled as far foward as it can go. That's at full length adjustment, too. So I guess I need to go to a junkyard in the near future and grab the linkage piece off of an old Grand Wagoneer or something (there should be plenty in the yards).

The curb idle was simply too low. EV said the car idled fine cold, but once it warmed up would die. Once it got some temp to it, I got it off fast idle and it was pretty low for idling in park. I got EV to hop in the car and hold the brake and put the car in drive and I set the curb idle on the carb. Didn't have a timing gun to double check the timing but it ran pretty good after that. ( I can't bring my tools south of the 49th because that's a big no-no these days )

He still needs to do some carb tuning (bogs a little bit when you walk on it) but the car isn't a drag racer and the bog isn't really that bad. Once he (or I, or we) can figure something out with the kickdown linkage, have the timing double checked, then other things can be looked at - but basics first. It's at least driveable, albeit the shift points are way high.

With 2.87 gears, it should be shifting at 15 and 25, but it's more or less doing the 1-2 shift at 25 and the 2-3 shift around 40!

He's also not getting WOT, not because of the cable or the cable bracket, but because of the kickdown being fully extended. He's getting about 3/4 throttle when the kickdown lever hits full. So, this explains the crazy high shift points. Need to find a way to either extend the existing linkage or make something that'll do the job.

The silver kickdown plate in the picture that goes on the 1/4 bolt with nylok nuts on the carb bellcrank, just take it off, beat the back end of it flat, where the small spring hole is, and drill another hole in it farther back for the flanged head bolt that attaches it to the kickdown rod. Now the silver plate will go farther forward and allow wot and correct the shift points, and with the additional hole in the silver plate and it all the way forward in the slot on the rod, the back end of the adjustment slot in the rod will be exsposed and the end of the kickdown return spring can just be slipped through the back of the slot in the rod instead of the small hole in the silver piece where it is now in the picture.

You can use the idea Phat gave and you wouldn't have to go yarding. Unless you don't have a drill and a way to modify it. If you get it fom a wagoneer, 80 and up will look like the one on Bobbi's 78AMX. Either way will work fine. When the linkage is off check the throttle travel to see it is opening all the way. Also I should add you can drive it how it is and not ruin the trans, it just has high shift points because the linkage is on kickdown at 1/4 throttle. SH

So I stopped by the body shop today just to check in on the progress. The rust behind the wheel well on the passenger side has been cut out and patched, and they were working on the drivers side. all the dings have been either marked for removal, or already removed.

Stopped by the body shop again today because the shop manager wanted to confirm my specifications for the placement of the stripes. Snapped a couple pictures, so here's a teaser of what is to come:

I'm going for white with bronze stripes, mostly because the vast majority of answers when I polled the board for stripe colors said "blue". That told me exactly what NOT to get, because it would be too common.

They had shot the hatch and hood bronze so they could mask off the stripe area, but will be re-shooting the bronze today as the shop manager was not happy with the results of the first try. The hood looked good, but the hatch had light spots, so they're going to redo it for uniformity. Then either tomorrow or, more likely, Thursday... it goes in for the white to be laid down. I will have it back in time for the upcoming wet weekend.

(And yes, the scoop is being painted too, just not installed at the moment because it has to be shot separately)

Looking good I like the bronze over the blue too. I got a few questions. 1) Why did you not strip the car down, pull the bumpers, grille, side marker lights, chrome around front & maybe rear windows, etc. as this would make for a much better job. Also with them off it is less places for dirt to hide to come out when car is painted. And less work for them to tape up 2) I take it the stripe is going over the roof why did they not paint it too as not painting it will make the stripe lighter. I also would not of painted to the edge of the hood and not the top of the fenders as this would make for a different color between hood & fender tops. I do agree with doing the stripe color first but “feather” the stripe color out from the stripe. This way when the white is laid on you will not get a darker color like hood & fenders. You then tape off the stripe and lay on the white. When you un-tape the car the stripe is now there. If putting clear on you would pull the stripe tape off only and lay on the clear. That is my .02 Dave ----

1) Because I'm lazy Actually some of the trim I WANTED to remove I couldn't because the screws were thoroughly rusted in place... or just plain rusted to the point of stripping. Edit: I also HATE pulling bumpers off this model, it's a total PITA.

2a) I'm trying to spend less on the whole car than a lot of you guys pay for just yoru paint job.

2b) Given how wide set the stripes are going to be, they had to go that far out with the paint. They probably could have "feathered" a bit, but the rally stripes are going to be WAY biased towards the fenders. I wanted them to "tie in" to the U-stripe in the rear, so they will START approximately 16" from the center of the hood on either side. They are going to go darn near to the fold at the fender side of the hood.

Not too worried about quality with this shop. I doubt that I would have seen as many other muscle/rods there being worked on if they didn't have a rep for bang for the buck. Yes, it is a lower buck job than on a show car, but I'm not building a show car.

Didn't know you had a pole, I would have picked orange for the stripe. It was a nice combo on a white car with blue inside. Also on the paint bleed through as Dave had mentioned, It may be harder with a darker color underneath. But they are doing it and have their methods. It is great to see you got enough cash for the paint! Very excited for you! SH

My mom bought a new 74 Hornet that bronze color when I was 14. I loved that color. 1st AMC I ever rode in....or drove. 14 yrs old, parents out of town, knew where the spair keys were.............some how a hubcap got lost, all of a sudden, the other 3 got yanked........gee Mom, somebody stole your hub caps

Capt - like I said, I wasn't looking for an expensive 100 point show car paint job. The local Maaco does a lot of classic cars (the count was up to 9 on site when I picked up the Hornet, a VW Bus and a '69 Camaro having joined the fray), and they were able to cut and patch the rust for a very reasonable price, in addition to the paint work. They were also able to mix both OEM paint codes, although it took a bit of research for them to convert the white into a current formula for mixing.