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johnnymormon12

I am not sure this is the proper place for this question, so if it's not feel free to move it. I grew up believing freemasonry was evil. When I was Catholic becoming a mason was excommunicable. I was wondering, what are some personal thoughts here on the freemasons? I always wanted to join because so many of our founders were masons and I am a lover of history, however I don't want to join a group that at it's core stands against Jesus Christ.

If it was me, I wouldn't want to miss out on it, especially for some man made organization!!! Just my outlook. My ex- was and I think still is one.However, he also joined the catholic church,too.Will have to ask him the next time I see him if he is still a freemason

God Bless you, Sheila

p.s. I got the idea it was some kind of fraternity,secret etc handshake,meetings. that it net-worked social aggradizement

some kind of 'brotherhood' but a freind of mine whose husband was one and died, said that 'they' tried to move in on hersexually...'so much for looking after widows and orphans in their tribulation,huh?[I;m not saying it's all that way

Livelystone

I do not think that you really want to become a mason...... Not just because the only two that I know very well are both the most disgusting liars and thieves that I have ever met (one is even a church elder) but because the rest of the masons will defend them against all comers who are not masons......... reminds me of hells angels or other evil organizations that I have had the unfortunate experience to have come across in my life

On a theoretical point they accept any way to God and heaven as being ok just as long as you have a way ........ one can believe in Jesus and the other be a Jew while a third, forth, or fifth may be Moslems, Buddhist or Hindu yet they will all end up as the perfect man being united equally in both earthly and heavenly knowledge.

However until that day they all stick together and decide how to keep as much wealth as possible amongst their own including stealing from you.

They have good covers with charity and so forth but up close and personal they among the worst I have ever come across.

Yeah, don't want to be harsh or try to "put you in a box" johnny, but I also have negative information and feelings about the masons. IMO, a "anything goes as long as it's mason-approved" mentality - including Jesus is just "one of the good guys".

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Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith. Heb. 12:2

martincisneros

The Free Masons of the 1700s are not the Free Masons of the 1800s and beyond. Originally, they were the radical evangelical wing of the Episcopalians and it was sorta a social club that transcended sorta the English caste system and Colonials would join because it would give them access to being able to discuss things with British nobility. Anyway, it was in the early 1800s that folks started distancing the Free Masonry from Christianity, and doing a bunch of occultic writings around the second decade of the 1800s. But that was the turning point. Some folks are on record as having said in the early 1800s that if Free Masonry had been this while Washington and some of the other founding fathers had been alive, they'd of never been Masons.

Sorta how the Unitarian and Universalist denominations went south in the 1800s, Free Masonry was another originally Christian outreach that went into the pit with all of the occultism. At one point, it became associated with organized crime, and people going to trial for organized crime as Masons were not getting convicted and there was public outrage over this -- sooo much so to the point that I believe that a political party was organized that was the Anti Masonic Party or something like that. I'm going to step out on a limb here 'cause unsure of the particular fact, but I'm thinking John Quincy Adams is who I'm thinking of that was elected as someone that had run on that party platform. More info on all of this and any corrections on what I just said is at http://www.wallbuilders.com with their book "Free Masonry and the Founding Fathers."

You don't have to be a political conservative to deeply enjoy their book and it maybe worth peaking around, particularly with any search engines the site may have, 'cause they may have an article written on it. I've personally not read the book, but I've heard some of their archived radio programs on it at their website. Some of their radio programs are exclusively right wing stuff, but some of 'em wind up being these kinds of topics. I haven't been to the website since about '08. One of their radio programs in July of '07 or July of '08 was specifically surrounding my question about our first war on Islamic terrorism that we had from 1784 to 1816 'cause David Barton had briefly mentioned it, and I slammed 'em quick with an email and just happened to luck out with listening the very day the broadcast was about my question, so that was kinda cool.

They're not afraid of questions around the areas of their expertise, though they never answered some questions I had years ago regarding UR in that time period. Should have figured they wouldn't wanna go there, or just honestly wouldn't have the resources on hand specifically relating to that, since you can own historical writings without owning some of the books I own, so... But other than UR -- anything specifically US history related on other matters, and they'll even do the research for you, if they don't readily have it in one of their publications on something. They sent me this whole custom essay one time per some of my questions years ago. Unsure if they still do that, but it had footnotes and all and a suggested donation slip with the packet they sent me related to my questions. Never did send back a donation, but will likely order about half of their newer books eventually 'cause they've got some of the more thorough resources on stuff they've looked into, like Masonry, African American History, etc. Not a matter of the money for them, but the interest in prioritizing their reading right then. Not going to do what I did years ago with getting a whole bunch of books that I wind up never reading and could have bought another year on my website with that money or whatever.

I've been gone for a week or so in Cuba(vacation time)...so I missed this questionMy wife's grandfather was big into it and a few years ago my wife manifested some ugly things.We went through counseling and deliverance and found much tied to masonry.She had to renounce a lot of word pacts and secret covenants. Some of the stuff was pretty sick in nature but it holds control on people and does pass down generationally. There is no peace to be found in this system! Your Father will provide you with all you need.blessings

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Livelystone

My wife's grandfather was big into it and a few years ago my wife manifested some ugly things.We went through counseling and deliverance and found much tied to masonry.She had to renounce a lot of word pacts and secret covenants. Some of the stuff was pretty sick in nature but it holds control on people and does pass down generationally. There is no peace to be found in this system! Your Father will provide you with all you need.blessings

I know the Bible speaks of sins being visited onto the third fourth generation however that has to do with observing sins being committed and the resulting shame and embarrassment rather than any generational curses.

Exd 34:7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear [the guilty]; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth [generation].

For sure God does NOT judge any family member for the sins of others that they too did not commit...... that is not excusing leading others into sin or becoming a stumbling stone.

Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

I have a mason in my family history but it was a few generations back so what if anything gets passed down through him to me?

According to scripture absolutely nothing as this person and whatever was good or bad about him was removed enough that I only found out about him from my father (it was either his uncle or great uncle) shortly before his passing. On the other hand had I been exposed to something first hand such as witnessing certain rites and events that would be different and bring into play a whole different set of rules.

For example when a son sees his father live a life of sin it will "stay" with him always being in the back of his mind and very possibly influencing him in a negative way (such as shame and embarrassment) and it will take 3-4 generations before the sinful influence of that one family members sin to be forgotten by both family members and the public at large.

Unfortunately SATAN playing the role of the accuser WILL visit the sins of the father upon the children forever and causing them to think that they have something in them that is condemning them or causing sin in their life when nothing could be further from the truth.

Deliverance ministries play off of these unfortunate types of Christians who do have problems but it is because of the lack of knowledge and not because of any demons within them....... The presence of demons in a person is because of their own sin and not the sin of anyone else and because of our past many of us do have to contend with demons but that is not the end of the world .......... Because it is through knowledge of the truth and the presence of Christ in us who has already taken all captivity captive that we may be delivered from all sin and demons!!!

Personally I do not think much different of "most" deliverance ministries than I do of what they claim to be able to deliver poor souls from (and that is stating my opinion of them very kindly). On the other hand there are without a doubt instances where a person has been "demonized" and had those demons cast out. Still without the individual continuing on in Christ and then through that individual learning to worship in truth and in knowledge become able to overcome those demons, they are sure to return......... Jesus teaches us that in the parable of the unclean spirit.

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.

:44Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth [it] empty, swept, and garnished.

:45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last [state] of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

I have seen first hand where a woman that had been delivered by a well known teacher of deliverance at the times of Satan's choosing fall right back into becoming physically under the control of a very obvious unclean spirit. Unfortunately this repetition is going to continue to plague her until she herself comes to the knowledge of the truth. Was this woman ever delivered....... IMO yes she was but without her coming to posses the necessary knowledge herself, she will continue to have instances of her body coming under the control of demons.

As God said........ his people perish because of the lack of knowledge.

Hi doug...an ungodly attitude can be brought down to others.An example that is obvious is sexual abuse,promiscuity. If a child grows up in this or even senses it ,the child will be affected.It is a spirit we can come into line with...when it is exposed it can manifest in different ways and when it does "deliverance" can occur. Some people have discernment of spirits(issues people may have)and know how to speak into the situation. I don't see anything wrong or non biblical with this.blessings

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martincisneros

My wife's grandfather was big into it and a few years ago my wife manifested some ugly things.We went through counseling and deliverance and found much tied to masonry.She had to renounce a lot of word pacts and secret covenants. Some of the stuff was pretty sick in nature but it holds control on people and does pass down generationally.

Yeah, I was involved in an exorcism back in 2005 that lasted 41 days and nights and crazy amounts of the demonic only left after freemasonry renunciation of stuff done by her parents, grandparents, and great grandparents. I don't want to scare anyone seeking for the baptism with Holy Spirit, but it was right as they were getting baptized with Holy Spirit that all of that crud started manifesting and she ran off on all 4s into my hall closet, and her face got really long and narrow and I won't even get into all of it, but she sounded like and took on body language of quite a few popular female singers to where obviously certain choices in music that wasn't Word honoring had fortified that to where I was narrowly strong enough to get all of that crap out of her. I'd time travel and trade Jesus on who did the Gadarene demoniac's deliverance ANY TIME HE'D LIKE if He'd of personally come and dealt with that bit of nonsense I had to deal with in '05. I wonder sometimes if I've caught up on my sleep YET. And of course, i was working full time for walmart, so, I had spiritual warfare going on no matter what and I couldn't decide what was worse, that exorcism or the job I'd of gladly chosen suicide over if it weren't for having to come home to THAT and for just under 6wks it was a degree less warfare against me than being back at the house. Sooooooo much of that crap, again, was freemasonry related from prior generations and oaths she knew absolutely nothing about, but their words and their spirits didn't want to depart from the mouths of their children or their children's children forever.

Yes, I have to concur on this take on it, having been brought up in what I only partially tongue-in-cheek call the "Lord's boot camp", ie. deliverance ministry. And no; NO MAN taught me, the Lord taught me beginning 8 days after my salvation experience and I knew NO ONE in Christian circles save my one back-slidden Baptist friend at the time, and SHE thought I was dead wrong when I was trying to tell her about deliverance for CHRISTIANS, insisting that Christians couldn't have anything but the Holy Spirit in them, because that was what she had been taught of men.

Her stand on that was dramatically altered a few days later, after having a fight with her then boyfriend at work one day, and she found she COULD NOT "settle down", but was still nearly enraged at him. She began to pray commanding what she thought was agitating AROUND her away from her, when the Lord spoke to her plainly, "It's not outside of you, it's INSIDE of you!"

So she started to command anything like that out of her and coughed with force, aware something like akin to an "air snake" left her throat. She began to cry and praise God, and just then a young minister friend who worked there also went by and asked her what was wrong. He got a strange look on his face and said, "Now I know what happened to ME two weeks ago!"

He began to tell her of getting a call and meeting up with 4 other ministers to go to a woman's house to do a "house blessing/cleaning" because the woman said she was seeing demons walking thru her house. When he began to command them out of HER house, they left HIS "house" instead, and he coughed so hard he had to stop and let one of the others take over. They both were choked up then and both left work to go home and lay on their faces before God to see what ELSE He would remove from them then.

I wish I still had the 2 legal pads full of scripture after scripture that He led me thru the whole Bible revealing deliverance, beginning with the separation of light and darkness in Genesis. The principle or precept is ALL THRU IT, is in the pattern of the Tabernacle as well, as it is the inner court priesthood realm that displays part of the pattern as does the outer court.

This is what He MEANT, when He said work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. The Greek word there for salvation also means DELIVERANCE, and it is in the inner court realm where the sanctification process begins. Sin is not only a verb, as in something we do, but also is a NOUN, as in something we HAVE in our flesh. When Adam was taken from the dust of the earth, did you ever think about the fact that the serpent was ALREADY THERE, in the dust realm? Else why was Satan already a serpent? "Oops!"

When God said that "Lucifer" (Adam) was perfect until the day iniquity was found in him, He did not mean that like it was a surprise and He just found it. He brought Eve out of him to show him what his stony (calcium/bone is a mineral/stone) heart looked like.

Which is why He told the Israelites He took them out into the wilderness to show them what was in their hearts. Not because He didn't know, but because He wanted them to see if for themselves, as a man looking into a mirror and seeing his REFLECTION. He brought us out into the wilderness of sin for the same reason. Remember; it's not what goes IN a man's mouth that defiles him, IT'S WHAT COMES OUT OF IT, ie. it's ALREADY THERE.

Now has this doctrine abused? Of course it has. Name me one truth of God that hasn't been. But that doesn't make the truth any less the truth...Blessings...

« Last Edit: January 21, 2010, 08:32:47 AM by Cardinal »

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"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Livelystone

Certainly Christians can have demons and that is exactly what the law of sin living in the flesh of Paul is made up of .......that fact is even made more clear when he refers to it as the "messenger of satan" that was the thorn in his flesh.

Thorns are the sins that are living nouns within the soul whom we have carried with us since our natural birth......... after all the soul (Eve) is nothing more than a celestial body (form made up of spirit matter) that has been taken from a physical body with all of it's senses of likes and dislikes.

Numbers 33:55But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell.

Judges 2:3Wherefore I also said, I will not drive them out from before you; but they shall be as thorns in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare unto you.

Had Israel killed those whom they were suppose to WHEN they were suppose to we would not have to deal with them but that was not God's plan for us.

Personally for many who are called to do the Lords work I would not put faith in any deliverance from them for the simple reason that God did not remove them from Paul. As I said in another thread when Satan showed Jesus the kingdoms of the world that had been given to Him by God he showed Jesus the spirit and soul of man............and if they belong to Satan you can be sure that there are demons there. However as long as we do not give life to them by yielding to THEIR desires they will remain in the "dry places" that is the dust of our flesh. (that is why the jews had the the laws of a seed not being allowed to fall unto the ground therefore giving it life are all about)......... also see Jesus parable of the unclean spirit in Matt.12 and Luke 11

It is nothing to brag about but if anyone has known or seen the face of evil I have......... and I know it still lives in my flesh and it will never be anything different than what it always has been. However through the knowledge of the truth and understanding of the spirit and soul as well as the knowledge of the enemy, by the Grace and Love of God this evil in me is not allowed to rule over what God has bought and paid for.

I certainly have a lot more trust in God keeping what He has paid for than I ever would in any person ever accomplishing what He has said He will not do!!!

Hi doug...an ungodly attitude can be brought down to others.An example that is obvious is sexual abuse,promiscuity. If a child grows up in this or even senses it ,the child will be affected.It is a spirit we can come into line with...when it is exposed it can manifest in different ways and when it does "deliverance" can occur. Some people have discernment of spirits(issues people may have)and know how to speak into the situation. I don't see anything wrong or non biblical with this.blessings

I agree OT and showing up again is part of what I was referring to when I spoke of seeing someone such as parents repeatedly commit a sin without any repentance or resulting punishment.

On the other hand as far as deliverance goes unfortunately all I have ever seen in anyone including those who claim to have been delivered or claim to have "completely delivered others" has been an improvement in the individual that may or may not remain to be seen as a deliverance. Because some of these "deliverance ministries" are well known in the UR camp I will refrain from mentioning names but I will confess that I wish that their claims were true..........but when I talk to the individuals who have been "delivered" from a lust they tell me that they still have to deal with the temptation just as the ones that have had demonic body manifestations tend to return......... for that matter sometimes I have set them free again but I am not believing that it has been something permanent for them.

Hi Doug...once you see it happening you will know its possible,One of the things that kept me from proceeding with "deliverance" was my pride and stubborness,lets say I manifested ,this was dealt with and I'm free from it.We must confess our sins ,even the ones that are suppressed, then we can be freeblessings

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Livelystone

Hi Doug...once you see it happening you will know its possible,One of the things that kept me from proceeding with "deliverance" was my pride and stubborness,lets say I manifested ,this was dealt with and I'm free from it.We must confess our sins ,even the ones that are suppressed, then we can be freeblessings

See it happen ????????

I am speaking from experience and seeing it happen lots of times

I have seen several that claim to have been delivered yet fall right back into the same sin and under the same demons....... like I said in an earlier post I have seen others who have been delivered of seizures and all kinds of sin yet still I had to deliver them again......... and there is nothing in scripture to say that they will not be repossessed yet again by the same demonic spirits and to the contrary there are verses that say just that !!!

I have on request traveled across country to minister unto individuals who have given public testimony of their deliverance just see them still in need of deliverance again !!!!

OT......... read the parable of the unclean spirit Matt 12 and Luke 11....... when it goes out of a man what according to Jesus does it very often do????????....... The answer is........ It goes right back and the person is worse off then they ever were in the first place Many of the times the reason something like that happens is because they thought that they had been delivered when all Satan was doing was setting the person up for a downfall THROUGH USING A DELIVERANCE MINISTRY TO CARYY OUT HIS WORK IN THE CHURCH!!!

What gives these deliverance ministries the right to trump what Jesus teaches is very likely to happen and consequently they just set up some poor sucker because of their lack of their understanding the truth a real letdown in their belief when the same evil spirit returns unto them

Heck I have seen and heard some of the leaders best known deliverance ministries being caused by God to stop and expose their own sins right in the middle of a sentence........ then LOL go right on with planning a deliverance conference "for those who need it"

Amen to a lot of your post Doug, and I was especially blessed by what you said about the kingdoms of this world and the reason for the seed of man not falling to the ground.

The only thing I can't agree with is God not removing the "tares", which is what Matt. 13 is dealing with in the harvest parable. The reason He would not remove the thorn in Paul's flesh I believe is because that "thorn" was the carnal mind and Paul was a man born out of season, in that it was not time yet for all the knowledge he had been given to fully manifest.

The frustrating thing to me is that I've heard many over the years belie the need for wisdom from the Lord, not realizing that this wisdom is given for the purpose of MANIFESTING it in and thru our mortal bodies (as well as the mortal bodies of others thru the gifts), as well as strengthening our inner man.

We're not learning for the sake of learning ANYTHING, we are to learn thru the Spirit of the Lord because it is the catalyst for CHANGE, culminating in the final transformation, ie. that mortality be swallowed up of immortality.

And onlytruth I agree those are some reasons deliverance doesn't come forth, but the main reason I think is unbelief and that they have never been taught about it in the first place.

And Doug, the reason why some are not "successful" to our eyes, is because that the spirit returns for some time to try to get back in, and not a lot of teaching is out there on how to stand against it. This is the same reason people who are healed of something by the Lord, later "lose" their healing; they didn't know it would come back, even with lying symptoms, to get them to accept it back.

However; once it is stood against in the power of His might and our authority and dominion given us over the "beasts of the field" is maintained, it will not return. This is why it says resist the devil and he will FLEE.

I'll share something out of my own experience. I had a severe back injury (4 ruptured discs in total) for about 4 years before I came to the Lord. About 3 months after I came to the Lord, I was slain in the Spirit (the falling backwards you see in some ministries) and felt a tremendous heat going up and down the paralyzed leg all the way up to my back, for about a half hour. When I could stand, it was obvious I was healed. I had been tested and diagnosed prior to this.

So to make a long story short, I asked the Lord how this could be? I had not asked for healing and no one laid hands on me and prayed for me. He reminded me of when they built the temple the Lord told them to go get the Egyptians and the Chaldeans (formerly their enemies, obviously), for them to do their part in the building of the temple to His specifications.

After their part in the temple building was done, they left and the priests cleansed the place with blood and the glory of the Lord came in. In other words, He uses the unclean things to build the temple and when their work is done (the person has overcome) He tells them to leave.

So He told me I had overcome the darkness that brought the injury in the first place, and so there was no need for the "workman" any further, and it left. However, a year later, I was standing in the kitchen and suddenly felt the all too familiar knife in my back type of pain and couldn't straighten up.

I was talking to myself, trying to figure out if I had done something as in lifting something heavy recently or what, and when I could come up with no natural reason for the pain again, I asked Him and He told me it was a "lying symptom". Just the thought that it would try to come back made me mad, and I stomped my foot on the floor (not recommended with back pain, LOL) and yelled at it to get off me, I was healed. It immediately left.

So I went from being told 26 years ago that I'd be in a wheelchair by age 30 (I was 26 at the time) to commanding the thing off me that was trying to put me there. In the past 26 years I have lifted plenty of heavy things, and have never had a day of pain like I experienced or any paralysis. Whom the Son sets free, is free indeed, but we must use the authority and dominion He has given us, "to till the ground."

Another incident of this type happened a year after He miraculously healed me of terminal cancer. The Lord told me to go to a particular meeting I had received notice of in the mail, and I met someone who ministered that night and she had a word from the Lord for me. She said, "The Lord is saying something about an issue of blood, but you are not to worry about it."

The NEXT DAY, I started to hemorrhage again. Again, it was a year later (not sure why it seems to be a year?). Of course, my mind and the minds of those around me, were trying their best to convince me I was not healed, as was my body. I literally was telling my mind and my body they were liars.

Again, 7 weeks later, He tells me to go to a particular meeting over in Ohio. I went, and the pastor whom I knew had an anointing, said that the Lord had told him that in that service he would be used particularly to touch those that needed physical healing. I thought, this is why He brought me, only to hear Him say "no" when I asked Him if I should go forward for healing.

So there I sat, wondering why I wasn't to go forward. I stayed to pray for others when it was over (in my seat), and as I was done and getting ready to leave, the woman who had the meeting, came up to me. The anointing hit both of us as she said, "I got a word from the Lord for you. He said, because of your obedience, you're healed!"

Now I had hemorrhaged for 7 weeks exactly at this point. It stopped by that evening. That was 13 years ago and I've never had to deal with it again. Blessings....

« Last Edit: January 21, 2010, 08:41:46 PM by Cardinal »

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"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Livelystone

As soon as I read of you praying for the healing of others I knew what was coming your way

Anyway

As you know I do listen to what you have to say and I did hear from the Lord regarding the tares and the casting out of demons. Basically His reply was that they are apples and oranges because they are not the same thing.

Tares look like the wheat until the harvest is ready but demons look like demons right from the get go and Jesus would not say for us to just let them be until the time of the harvest. What the tares are is words and doctrines of those who teach who still need to be taught. Like Satan's angels who are transformed to appear as messengers of righteousness they are delivered unto us through the mouths of pastors, priests as well in particular in this day in age online ministries that have just enough of what is right to snare God's children into lowering their guard and then filling them with damnable heresies.

It was not until very recently that I became aware that the Lord would have me to start posting again and it is because we have approached a critical time and it is necessary to have a purifying of the word that is being given unto God's children. It is this purifying of the word that is being taught that will bring forth truths that will dispel the lies that look like good wheat and are still in those who have been called to come forward. However because of the errors in their knowledge of what is true is what is keeping them stuck in the earth making them unable to be harvested at this time and caught up to be with Him. That dear sister is what the removing of the tares is.

On the other hand demons appear evil in everything they do....... if not checked in time those who are overcome by demons will become a breeding ground and a gathering place drawing others to them.......... kinda like visiting bars in the red light districts and seeing how all the different vices of man all gather together where misery loves company.

This word given today supports what was given to me several years ago when I quit posting because of when God told me to re-read Jonah as He had a critical message for me there. I was outside working in the yard when that word came to me and I thought to myself that I certainly do not need to re-read that little book because I already knew all what that little book had to say (as in who does not?). Still He kept up with telling me I had to go back and read Jonah again so finally after a couple of days of me resisting Him I broke down and went to the Book of Jonah

Soon I was saying to Him "Look Lord there is nothing here for me" as I was near to the end of Jonah but in that particular Bible the last two verses of Jonah require the page be turned over in order to be read...... that was when the last verse jumped off the page at me

Jonah 4:11 11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?.

I was fighting with everyone and there were a lot of false doctrines getting the light shined on them but the truth was not being accepted other than by them who already had a grasp on it. But the fighting was causing lots of long term damage and the Lord was telling me that He was going to forgive all others just as He had forgiven me. However he was also saying that it was not the time for me to be contending with others and that there was still more yet to be learned by me.

Now I believe it is the time for the tares that are the lies that have been taught to God's children to be gathered together and put through the fire of His pure word.

The rest of the word is that Demons can only do damage within those where they are more powerful than the words that has been taught them....... this is the lack of Godly furnishings that will keep the demons away from when the unclean spirit returns and finds the place from where he was cast out of "garnished" because of the presence of the seed of the Holy Spirit but "swept clean' because of the missing knowledge that is contained within the Ark that is not where it is supposed to be.

Moving on..........

Regarding demons, after my many years of walking in the underworld and eventually becoming a significant leader of a very successful criminal enterprise I am very aware of evil spirits. However it is them who are now bound and chained rather than me and these days they very seldom are the cause of any more trouble other than an occasional brief reminder that they will always be in my flesh........ and as long as I am ruled by the Lord they never will be a problem unto me or others but do serve as a testimony to His power, truth and love.

Hi again Doug......yes, I can see what you're saying. I did not mean to infer that tares are demons, but rather evil spirits.

I'm not sure what the difference is, but there is a difference. So because evil spirits are as a breath, sort of, and His breath is revelation that quickens or makes alive, so I can follow with you that they could be considered lies. Anything that is not of the Truth that is Christ, is a lie.

He showed them to me as antichrists. Antichrist literally means AGAINST Christ and they literally stand as a sort of false covering blocking out His light, like the staves of a barrel over a candle, is the way He showed it to me. So obviously the more "staves" that are removed and thrown into the fire, the more the light of the candle can shine out.

This, by the way, is how He showed me the rapture was a lie. Blessings.....

« Last Edit: January 22, 2010, 01:22:31 AM by Cardinal »

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"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Hi. Are you guys saying a born-again believer, called and chosen as part of the ecclesia of God - those of whom scripture says "He who has begun a good work in you will complete it" - "looking to Jesus, the Author and Finisher/Completer of our faith" - "predestined to good works" - those who have the royal blood of Jesus flowing through their veins - in essence, New Covenant believers miraculously saved and SEALED with the Holy Spirit of God (Eph. 1:13,14) - has demons in them still, or can have demons return into them?

Not unbelievers, unregenerated, unredeemed individuals who may have experienced a deliverance, but still not yet of the household of God - but the saints mentioned above in the first paragraph; God's temple?

I don't believe when God decides it's our time to personally taste of His grace and seal us with the Holy Spirit of promise, that He leaves our salvation in a tenuous position - I believe He ensures the endurance to the end.

Personally, I'm not talking about a Christian having a demon, but evil spirits, yes. Our spirit is saved first, then our soul, then our body. They reside in the soul. Working out your own salvation/deliverance with fear and trembling, is the removal of the tares from your soul.

Ever have a thought you KNOW was not you? It was either on the inside or the outside, "speaking" to you. Blessings....

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"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Livelystone

Hi. Are you guys saying a born-again believer, called and chosen as part of the ecclesia of God - those of whom scripture says "He who has begun a good work in you will complete it" - "looking to Jesus, the Author and Finisher/Completer of our faith" - "predestined to good works" - those who have the royal blood of Jesus flowing through their veins - in essence, New Covenant believers miraculously saved and SEALED with the Holy Spirit of God (Eph. 1:13,14) - has demons in them still, or can have demons return into them?

Not unbelievers, unregenerated, unredeemed individuals who may have experienced a deliverance, but still not yet of the household of God - but the saints mentioned above in the first paragraph; God's temple?

A good question........

The old man in us does not change and darkness is never changed to light.

However Christians are given a new spirit to be the source of their life and that spirit is the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ that has no sin. As long as one is being led by faith aka Holy Spirit in them then it does not matter what the "old man" Adam in us who has Eve and all her sinful desires for a wife wants to bring forth.

Once Adam who is an unclean spirit is allowed to return and rule over that which has been bought and paid for by Christ Jesus even when they desire to do good (bring forth Abel) it is usually just a matter of time before "Adam" along with Eve will bring forth Cain who will lay and wait for an opportunity to rise up and slay Abel.

IMO most Christians are still being led by Adam despite having the Holy Spirit in them. They are doing their best to continually bring forth good (Abel) but in time Cain who is stronger will eventually usurp Abel and then all sorts of evil will begin to manifest even though the individual may well have already been baptized in the Holy Spirit.

That is why sometime you hear of Christians committing horrible crimes or on a lesser scale for example when we see the heads of ministries falling deep into sin bringing condemnation from a world that is always ready to judge Christians.

It is a matter of which master we serve Jabcat....... if Christ rules in us and "our eye is single" and focussed on Him everything is cool but if we are double minded because the old man in us is mature while the Holy Spirit is only slightly developed, our emotions and lack of knowledge might easily allow the old man to return (aka unclean spirit) and then trouble is soon to follow.

Man is a spirit in a body and when the disciples wanted to call down fire Jesus said "you know not want manner of spirit you are" as a lesson to us that while we may think that we are following Christ we can easily be tricked into allowing the old unclean spirit to return. This particular time was caused by the spirit of judgement and accusing others of sin when we are forgetting that He died for us while we too were still living in sin.

I would suppose that the above may bring forth more questions...... that IMO is good.

I'm going to think about this further. But for now, is it fair to say that it's being stated; there is a difference between a demon and an evil spirit; an evil spirit and the Holy Spirit of God can dwell in the same vessel; and/OR that the vessel actually has "different compartments" that can be ruled by different entities; in essence, that one can be a child of God, sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise and still have evil spirits inside them?

A thought to consider (which I think is often the case) is pre-cross vs. post-cross experience. For example Doug, IMO, the disciples who walked with Jesus had not as yet been regenerated and filled with the Holy Spirit. I would think some significant issues would likely be in play there.

Thanks for the witness Doug......it came to me one day last year that the spirit of Adam was the unclean spirit that returned to the house that was swept but not garnished, but I couldn't see how that "fit". More to chew on Blessings.....

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"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor