Is friday night sex really a double mitzvah?

byHeshy FriedonNovember 24, 2010

Commenter Batsheva sent me this question and I thought it was both funny and thought provoking enough to share here.

So here is something I’ve always wondered, but never had the guts to actually ask anyone. Maybe it’s common knowledge. I didn’t go to yeshiva, so there’s a lot I don’t know. WHY is it a mitzvah (double mitzvah, I’ve heard said) to have sex on Friday night?

My understanding is that HaShem STOPPED creating life on the 7th day. Somehow it doesn’t make sense to me that we’re not allowed to write a word, draw a picture, or light a match on the 7th day, but we’re allowed to perform the act that ultimately brings a new human being into the world. And yes, I know that the former things are considered work, while the latter is decidedly pleasurable, but let’s be honest here. You ever know anyone to work up a sweat writing a word on a piece of paper?

It seems to me that the real issues have always been creation and destruction that are forbidden on Shabbat (I think I even learned once that the 39 av melachot were all activities involved in the creation of the Beit Hamikdash). So if creation is the issue, isn’t sex the ultimate act of creation?

Yes, I know that procreation is a mitzvah and it’s pleasurable, but giving tzedakah is a mitzvah and going to the movies is pleasurable, but I’m not allowed to do either of those on Shabbat (although we give tzedakah beforehand). So what’s the deal here? Why the big exception? Is there really some logical reason I’m missing, or was this just Hazal’s way of making sure they’d all get laid a minimum of once a week?

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wasnt it friday afternoon/evening that god created man? I mean they were last thing on that day according to the first sequence which mentions days…
Also in Ketuboth it mentions certain days having certain “blessings” based on what was created on that day in the first sequence so friday night-Shabbat day would be the blessing of peace and rest which is pretty good right?

Michelle

So I also always thought Friday night was “mitzvah night” till I asked my kallah teacher and she said it’s a misconception a lot of people have. She said it’s an extra mitzvah because it adds to the oneg (pleasure) of Shabbos and it’s a mitzvah to have sex any point on Shabbos. It’s kinda like having good food on Shabbos, it adds to the oneg.

http://jewishdepression.blogspot.com OfftheDwannaB

That’s a good question. I think the Kabbalistic reason for doing it (that came out wrong) on Shabbos is to experience being me’ein olam habah, just like Shabbos is. A day of connection to and unity with each other and the divine, above time and space.

I don’t know the Halachic reason. But I don’t think the Chachamim would violate Shabbos to have sex. They could’ve instituted having sex on Tuesday. The Melacha it’s probably most similar to though is Zereiah, planting. I’d have to do more research to give any real halachically-based answer though.

Yoreh K’chetz (aka Phil)

Acutally, your average dude is commanded to do so every night. The talmidei Chachamim were given a “break” and suggested once a week, Friday night being a prime time. Donkey drivers once a week, camel drivers once a month ad sailors once every 6 months. Furthermore, if a guy had multiple wives he could split down his duties as long as he didn’t diminish it by more than required to satisfy 4 wives.

So, if a sailor had four wives or more, he was only obligated to do each wife once every 2 years.

Note that the halacha places emphasis on the guy doing this as a marital duty. If the guy couldn’t handle his duty due to impotence or being too tired, the wife had the right to request a divorce.

At some point in time, the rabbis decided that it wasn’t proper for a scholar to spend too much time with his wife (quote: like a rooster) instead of in the yeshiva, so the came up with the once to twice a week thing.

S*x isn’t a melacha, as it doesn’t fall into any of the 39 melachas used in the construction of the mishkan.

http://jewishdepression.blogspot.com OfftheDwannaB

My last post was lost, so I’ll just summarize:

“Why the big exception? Is there really some logical reason I’m missing, or was this just Hazal’s way of making sure they’d all get laid a minimum of once a week?”
Chazal wouldnt make a takana to violate shabbos to have s@x. They could’ve been Mesakin to do it on Tuesday.

Phil, you said:
“S*x isn’t a melacha, as it doesn’t fall into any of the 39 melachas used in the construction of the mishkan.”
I’m no posek, but it seems very similar to Zereiah, planting. You’d have to ask a real posek or do a lot of research in various Shu”t to find out the answer on this one.

Yoreh K’chetz (aka Phil)

OTD,

You’re definitely no posek , no way it falls under planting. However, if you said plowing …

http://jewishdepression.blogspot.com OfftheDwannaB

Could you explain why not?

Yoreh K’chetz (aka Phil)

OTD,

Melacha of planting is specific to agriculture, it involves digging a hole in the ground and planting seeds that will grow into vegetation. The act of fertilizing a woman’s egg has nothing to do with it.

The plowing thing was supposed to be a pun, I could have used grinding as well.

http://jewishdepression.blogspot.com OfftheDwannaB

You’re still not explaining why not. I know enough to know the idea of Avos and Toldos Melachos. I also know what Issurei derabbanan are (like making tearing by itself assur). Certainly something like impregnation is as similar to planting as many other melachos are. The mere fact that one planting is in the ground and one is in a woman is inconsequential to my mind, as melachos are always applied to non-agricultural situations. That’s why I recommended asking a Halachic expert. I don’t think Halacha should be treated as flippantly as throwing out random piskei halachah with no basis.

Yoreh K’chetz (aka Phil)

OTD,

Their is no precedent. The Chazal wouldn’t recommend Friday night if there was a chashash of “planting”.

All I can say is that if you’re really afraid of transgressing a toldah of planting by nailing your wife on Shabbat, take it up with your rav, I’m sure he’ll pop out a heter in no time.

musicluver

Ever heard of the term “Loshon Nekiyah”?
The phrase you should be using is “having relations” or at the very least “making love”

Rebbe Shlita

Sex is a creative act, that’s true, but it doesn’t involve creatively manipulating God’s Creation, which is the point of resting on Shabbos. Sex is also much more than creativity, obviously, and its primary focus at the time is human intimacy, with the creative part only visible later. You aren’t actively pursuing development of the world in a man vs. nature kind of way, and you aren’t doing anything that would harm your weekly acknowledgment of God’s authorship and ownership of Creation.

To be more technical, sex could only theoretically be assur m’derabanan, since it takes two to tango and that would remove it from the category of meleches machsheves.

http://alarbean.wordpress.com DrumIntellect

The “double” mitzvah you allude to are:
1. Fulfilling a husband’s contractual obligation to have s*x with his wife
2. Enjoyment of Shabbos (oneg shabbos)

I think you are confusing s*x with procreation. While they are related, s*x without procreation is still viewed as a positive thing by Orthodox Judaism.

Your comparison to writing, watching movies, and giving tzedaka is interesting. Each of those are forbidden for Orthodox Jews for different reasons. For example, writing (two full letters according to some Rabbis) is number 32 of the 39 forbidden activities. Watching movies (assuming someone else turns on the movie and you don’t travel there or pay for it) is merely not in the spirit of the day. Giving tzedaka is a rabbinical prohibition related to dealing with money on Shabbos. However, as Phil pointed out, s*x is not on the list of activities necessary to build the mishkan.
(If you ask me, praying in a crowded synagogue with a wool tallis is sweaty business )

Anon

Interesting.

chavah

The kabbalists had a hard time with the onah, quoted above, and reduced the obligation from a min to a max. Celibacy was never going to work in Judaism, but the elite have always been uncomfortable with sex. It’s a little funny, considering all the sex in kabbalah.

Early kabbalists took the verse, “For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose [the things] that please me, and take hold of my covenant . . .” Isaiah 56:4 to mean that one should behave as a eunuch during the week and have sex only on shabbat, just as G-d “unities” with the Jews on shabbat.

One may not consummate a marriage on shabbos if the bride is not a virgin, because one would technically be fulfilling a contract. I can’t remember why it’s ok if the kallah is a virgin, but you don’t have to worry about tearing the hymen or staining the sheets either. It’s in the kitzur shulchan arukh.

zach

S*x? M*r*on!

Yoreh K’chetz (aka Phil)

Zach,

S*x, @ss, f*ck are neat ways to avoid Hesh’s spam filter.

zach

That’s “maroon” I guess. Unintentionally non-offensive…

Anonymous

“or was this just Hazal’s way of making sure they’d all get laid a minimum of once a week?”
The use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ‘ridicule to expose and criticize people’s stupidity’ or vices, this is the definitionif SATIRE in Google dictionary.
So be careful with your twisted approach of “satireing” the hazal snake might come back to bite you (where it hurts most..)
The enlightened people of the pre war era already used your style of satire before you and nothing good came out of it. Enugh said

shim (Shimon)

this type of statement has no positive effect

http://jewishdepression.blogspot.com OfftheDwannaB

No. It seems to me that Anonymous has had some vision explaining that the holocaust came about because of satirizing Chazal. Please, share with your divine secrets, you twit.

Yankel

So you think the holocaust had nothing at all to do with the Haskala, in which up to 90% of our population became secular…

http://jewishdepression.blogspot.com OfftheDwannaB

It is illogical to claim to know God’s mind. Further, it is morally wrong for us in 21st America to judge what things people did to “cause” God to make a Holocaust.
I think, based on what I heard from my Rebbe R’ Yaakov Weinberg, z”l that God does expect us to learn from what He does in this world. (R’ Weinberg quoted numerous pesukim in Tanach where God is critical from us for not learning from what he did. Certain things, like excessive rain and famine are actually delineated in the Chumash as punishments for specific sins, as in the 2nd paragraph of Shema.) But only people who were there can learn from it, regarding themselves personally. You can’t point at others and say “Look what you did that God punished you and me”.
The only “explanations” I think are at least somewhat useful to us today (as much as we can draw a parallel) are from things religiously attuned people said at the time regarding themselves. One famous one that comes to mind is a story where someone heard the Kloisenberger Rebbe, while doing hard labor in a concentration camp, said to himself over and over, “Tachas asher lo avadetah es Hashem Elokecha bsimcha”.

A. Nuran

Why is it illogical? For the most part we create our gods in our own image the better for them to serve us. What could be more logical than claiming to understand them?

Yankel

If by “Creating G-d in our image” you mean accepting the law he commanded us at the mountain, then how would that effect our ability to understand him?

If you actually mean to say you believe there never was a mountain or a command, and “We created” the story and it’s philosophies, then why are you joining a discussion where everyone differs from you on this point?

Are you letting us know that you share the beliefs of the ancient Egyptians? We know already. But thank you anyway. Occaisional reminders are always a good thing.

http://jewishdepression.blogspot.com OfftheDwannaB

Rereading my comment, I need to clarify what I said from R’ Weinberg. I don’t remember him saying that certain ‘spiritually attuned’ people who are living at the time and place of the tragedy can’t diagnose the problem unless they themselves are guilty.
Consequently, the Kloisenberger Rebbe could have been lamenting the general problem he felt was the cause, and not been guilty of it himself (at least to the degree where he thought he caused the problem). The story though would seem to indicate that he was blaming himself (perhaps as part of the general problem).

Yankel

Let’s face reality here.
I know we’re still in a situation of “Mi she’meso mutal lifanav” since many survivors are BH still around, and any reason given for the holocaust – no matter how obvious or logical – will be seen as offensive and cruel. Rather, we must all just say “There is no explanation” and move on.

But as time passes, and we can view the situation with more clarity and less emotion, and we can see a greater perspective of all the events, developments, and changes preceding and leading up to the holocaust, it becomes more than obvious what happened and why it did.

For a detailed revisiting of the haskala/holocaust, you may want to check out Parshas Ki Savo in the tochacha.

Don’t like the system? Can’t imagine how these horrible things can happen to us all because some of us throw away our Torah?
I can’t help you. This is just the way it works.
If you got the Torah, then you should know how to do the math yourself.

It might help for you to realize, the Jewish nation was slowly but surely intermarrying and disappearing. EVERY family had 1+ who became secular.
The orthodox were looked at as backwards, stupid, blind and infinitely stationary, never getting anywhere. And they felt it.
It had become 100% acceptable to break halacha in certain areas, and gradually moving on to more minhagim, mitzvos, and halachos.
Do you know that a shaitel virtually could not have been found in the lita? Some of the greatest scholars took wives who didn’t cover their hair, simply because there was no alternative.

“Sheal avicha v’yagedcha zikeinecha v’yomru lach”.
If something drastic wouldn’t have happened – there would be no Judaism today.

It’s sad though. You would have hoped that after all of the terrors and torture that all the truly religious Jews had to endure, due to their brethrens’ genius decision to deny G-d and his will, people would have gotten their act together. But no.

So many secular Jews are holocaust analysists, and have written documentaries, stories, movies, books, and what not on the holocaust, yet they still haven’t picked up on any pattern or message anywhere. Alas they remain stubbornly secular.

Are they in denial that the exact same thing can easily happen TODAY in America? Maybe. Just like the Jews in Germany in 1938 would have called you ‘nuts’ if you suggested the possibility of a holocaust.

I’m hoping it’s just a matter of time, and that when the new generation will learn about the haskala and the holocaust which followed – from history (instead of from zeidy), they’ll realize what and why. In our day it’s still too close to home, and very often doesn’t lend itself to true analysis.

I, having been born and living in the 80’s 90’s and today, in a society which allows me to practice and be proud of my Jewishness, do not dare to pass judgement on the Jews of pre-war Europe. Many older Jews have testified that “If you were not there you just can’t understand it, don’t even try.”

For many, looking and living like a Jew meant – getting beaten up on an almost daily basis, living like a pauper, not having an education (outside Torah), and basically living what appeared to be a very limited life.
As R’ Berel Wein describes it “The Jews of the 18th century were sick and tired of the galus and it’s experiences”.
But to whatever extent we can say it, on their level, they should have stood up to the test. And more importantly, we should learn from history and get our act together while we still have the opportunity.

http://jewishdepression.blogspot.com OfftheDwannaB

I have heard your idea, in slightly modified forms, from different Rebbeim in High School. I also accepted it as logical until I researched more on my own.
The problem I have with the approach is that it doesn’t answer a lot. Most importantly, Eastern Europe was not affected (to the extent you describe, ie it being a problem to the society’s existence) by Haskalah. Most frum Jews who lived there were wiped out (90% of Poland’s 3,000,000 Jews). As such, the lesson you are taking from the Holocaust based on a first glance assumption is unproductive, and any change you make based on it is misguided.
I do believe people at the time, and to a lesser extent, us (as far as we can immerse ourselves in the historical psyche and relate it to ourselves) can learn from it. And, weighing all factors I’m aware of, the best answer for me is the Kloisenberger’s.

Yankel

Let’s see.
On one hand, it says clearly in our Torah that G-d promises us that if we forsake his will, that he will bring unimaginable terror upon us.
Most of Ashkenazic Jewry “Forsook His will”.
Following the Haskala, there was unimaginable terror brought upon Ashkenazic Jewry.

On the other hand, there were some instances where more people were killed in some areas which were less affected by the Haskala.

Well, I guess that pretty much proves that the Holocaust had nothing to do with Jews leaving their religion.

Who taught you logic?

(And it did effect Poland greatly, just not nearly as much as other countries.)

If your looking for little cute reasons intead of common sense,

The haskala began in – that’s right, Germany.

Sephardic Jewry was not effected by the haskala nor by the holocaust.

There are countless little stories of pieces of sefer Torah parchment with the Tochacha coincidentally written on them turning up – in people’s shoes, on Nazis’ IDs, on the back of paintings, etc.

But really, how can you not see the obvious?
If you would have been in the generation of the destruction of the 2nd temple, you probably would also insist that it had nothing to do with sinas chinam.

http://jewishdepression.blogspot.com OfftheDwannaB

I don’t know why you’re suddenly making this personal. I don’t want to make the Holocaust into an online pissing match. But I’ll deal with your points.

“On the other hand, there were some instances where more people were killed in some areas which were less affected by the Haskala.”
Poland is not some. It is half of all killed. If you’re focusing on some areas where Jews weren’t killed (most Sephardic lands) to examine where God directed his punishment and thereby learn out the cause, Poland shouldn’t just cause a problem in your theory, it should be where the place where you build your theory. Sephardic Jewry today, 3 generations after the Holocaust, numbers under 2 million, worldwide.

Anonymous

Hashem really hated Native Americans.

http://jewishdepression.blogspot.com OfftheDwannaB

Interestingly, places where Chassidus dominated, with it’s focus on “ivdu es hashem besimcha”, did stave off the influx of haskallah.

Yankel

Somewhat.

Shteig’n Yeshiva Dude (retired)

Question was well articulated and very respectful.

Answer: There is a universal term called ‘Oneg Shabbos’ which Chazal sort of used as the buzz word for all the wonderful stuff we are required to do/perform in regard to celebrating Shabbos. In the Yeshivish/Chassidish world, Cholent on Friday nite and during laining (commonly known as Kiddush club) is definitely Oneg Shabbos. (Thursday nite Cholent fresing on the other hand is NOT a mitzvah and is not mentioned in any of the Seforim currently available in your average Judaica store. It’s sort of like sex on Thursday nite – its nice and all but no points)

Now to the meat (absolutely no pun intended – and those of you who thought differently go to the mikvah stat) of your question, Nookie on Friday nite is a glorious expression of Oneg Shabbos (if done correctly). I do sincerely believe that when Shabbos was declared a national holiday, it was celebrated with Cholent, Kugel and whoopie. The act of the Shtup, while correctly referred to as procreation, nevertheless, is more about the private pleasures as distinctly written in numerous Chazals and Halacha. For example, a barren couple is NOT off the hook on doing the horizontal hora and the same rules apply. This also applies to older couples that are done with diapers and snotty teachers.

In today’s day and age where most Rabbonim will pask’n and sign off on birth control pills (for a very nominal fee), its common knowledge that more and more couples are practicing safe shtup and not ending up pregnant until he passes the Bar and she gets her BA or MA in Special Education.

So Batsheva, Friday night shvitzing is not a Melacha (hey if it was considered work you really think all those Kollel guys would have 10 kids???!!!) and each time its done is a special double Mitzvah. Now imagine how many Mitzvos you could put into the bank on an average winter Shabbos nite. The mere thought of it is making me horn… hmm… hungry – for Cholent!!

P.S. I am available for private consultation

yudes

If its not in the mishkan , its not assur.

Dr. Shrink

I assumed the mitzvah is double cuz 1) I am having sex Friday night and 2) it’s with my wife, as opposed to other times during the week when it’s with my shiksa girlfriend, who is for practice, no?

hornbag

If I have sex with your wife on Friday night do I get a triple mitzvah?

Anonymous

Good to know that I am not the only person who has had this question. If Shabbat is emulating G-d’s rest from creation, then it would follow that sex would be the first item on the no no list.

Dr. Shrink

I assumed that it was a double mitzvah as 1) your having sex and 2) it’s with your wife, as opposed to the other times in the week when the sex is with a shiksa…
You know what-say better, eppis…the, eh, shiksa is just for practice….so it’s like a preparation for the mitzvah- a hechsher mitzvah takeh, for Friday night

moose’s shoe

Yoreh K’chetz (aka Phil) is correct btw, i learned it in mishnayos. I think it’s in Edios, but huge chance I’m mistaken.

http://jewishdepression.blogspot.com OfftheDwannaB

Heshy, I posted a comment here a while ago and it hasn’t shown up. I think I used the word s@x unfiltered. I know, unthinkable in a post on s@x.

SF2K1

HaShem rested from creation. Technically, creating a kid might be a continuation of existing life, rather than something from nothing. Also we say that the egg from conception until 40 days is really not considered anything, so when the life would be there wouldn’t be for a while.

Additionally, a Husband/Wife actually are not allowed to have relations on shabbat if she’s a virgin and it’s their first time because this would be a melacha (spilling blood).

The Saudecees saw it more like the questioner and forbade relations on Shabbat.

Ploni

You could not be more wrong.
In the small poor shtetls of pre war Eastern Europe, it was common practice to have a small wedding Friday afternoon , have te Shabbos seudah serve as the dinner and the chattan and kallah were then allowed to be together.
Yichud after the actual ceremony was not when the wedding was consummated

http://jewishdepression.blogspot.com OfftheDwannaB

You cant bring any proof from what ignorant shtetl dwellers did. What happened in the cities where Rabbonim lived?

Yoreh K’chetz (aka Phil)

Ploni + OTD,

The gemara discusses whether or not it’s permitted to do a virgin bride on Friday night in Ketubot 6a and 6b. It’s a back and forth machlokes, with some facsinating concepts.

The possible given problems are “opening a doorway”, which ends up OK, making a chabura (wound) is the major point of argument. Seems like most people are considered expert enough to not cause bleeding, even if the guy has never done it before, which validates anyone to do it for the first time on Friday night.

However, I can see why it would be better to avoid the situation, and why people have a custom not to get married on Fridays.

SF2K1

Don’t know what ploni is talking about, haven’t seen any references to Rabbis giving heters for it. I’m currently learning Kesuvos, most of the opinions we’ve mentioned seemed to be against first relations on shabbos to the point that the keep the Chatan/Kallah seperate and don’t trust them to be together! Then again, we haven’t yet gotten to 6a/b. Don’t know how someone can be expert enough, if it’s still there, it’s gonna bleed to some degree.

Although in Jerusalem it’s happened several times, and I’ve been to a few weddings, where they set up a wedding on Shabbat, supposedly as a custom left over from when Jerusalem was a very small community a long time ago and supposedly because that was the most convenient time.

Yoreh K’chetz (aka Phil)

SF2K1,

You’re jumping the gun, wait until you hit 6B, seemingly Israeli Jews were better at “sideways entry” than Babylonian Jews…

SF2K1

Hilarious. This is why I love gemara.

http://kissmeimshomer.wordpress.com kissmeimshomer

tearing the hymen is the reason for that

J

According to some mystical opinion, a child conceived on Shabbos is supposedly born with a holy soul and will grow up to become someone great . I was taught that while still scared $h!tless about having sex for the first time.

Just Saying

According to a mystical opinion, the Zohar cites that a child conceived or born on Shabbos is holy and will eventually grow up to become a Zadik.So far the people I know who were born on Shabbos are anything but. I was taught that while still scared $h!tless over the idea of getting laid for the first time. The timing couldn’t have been more perfect

If you are that concerned about procreating on Shabbos thus transgressing a melacha, then use contraceptives instead.Besides who wants to start their Shabbos off with morning sickness anyways.I could think of better days to get knocked up.

Have fun you hormonal horn dogs!!

Yankel

Wow!
Zohar? Are you a mekubal?
You can call yourself “Baba Stupid-Perv”!

Then you can write a retarded book of lies blaming all your personal problems weaknesses and deficiencies on the frum community, and call it “Sensual Kabbalah for @ssholes”.

Really, Boteach Shachter and yourself should get together one day.

(I don’t know if your aware of this – being all mystical and stuff, but contraceptives are forbidden by the Torah.)

rationalist frummie

to phil; sex, there it is, the terrible word we must all learn to be able to write without putting numbers in caps. It is hard, I know, to finally get used to writing this sinful word but we can get there together. try it sometime

Yoreh K’chetz (aka Phil)

Rationalist,

Read reply above, I spell it like that to avoid the spam filter. Let’s see what happens if I type sexx…

Marcos

sex is allowed on Sabbath as a way of keeping you home instead of partying it up outside. also keeps the shalom bais when you make that connection.

Frumsatire Fan

According to another opinion, good Yiddishe sperm don’t fertilize eggs on Shabbat; they hang out in the womb shmoozing and taking naps, and on motzei Shabbos they start the race.

rationalist frummie

haha

http://kissmeimshomer.wordpress.com kissmeimshomer

I love how a bunch of people can get together and talk about this, some former yeshiva guys, some bt’s some random dudes, some muslims…(where has Mahla gone speaking of Muslims?) . Very Harmonious. Comical also, noting how we have people with names like offthedwannab debating halachic (non)issues.

http://www.frumsatire.net Heshy Fried

I shep lots of nachas from the fact that this is one of the few sites where that happens on a daily basis, where else can you find frummies and atheists being relatively civil toward each other.

http://jewishdepression.blogspot.com OfftheDwannaB

Many things cause me to wanna be offthed. I never said I am though. Certain things keep me believing. I’m not hiding the fact that I’m conflicted (and just the teensiest bit bitter-as-hell).

Yankel

The question is funny, and actually quite thought provoking, but like you said, quite silly to anyone who is familiar with hilchos Shabbos.

“Creation” vs. “Destruction” are only proper opposites in linguistics. As far as hilchos Shabbos go, the opposite of “Destructing” (Soser) is “Building” (Boneh) which is taking ALREADY existing materials, and out of them forming a structure.

The closest Melacha would be “Zeriah” (planting).
Planting or “Zeriah” is meant in a strictly agricultural sense.

The second to closest melacha would be “Molid” or “Creating”. (A rabbinical decree to emulate the general idea of Shabbos.)
Creation or “Molid” is only forbidden if:
1) the creation is to occur as a DIRECT result of your actions
2) there is a high likelihood that the act will in fact cause the “Creation”
3) the act is solely for the purpose of creating, and not for any other intention(s).
(all three exclude marital relations)

The decree of “Molid” centers mainly around melting, freezing, congealing and the like, in cases where the action will cause the substance to be in a ‘new categorie’ as a result. (water to ice cubes, fat to oil, ice to water).

Very cool question though.

prili

i have no halachic basis in this, but maybe the rabbis knew that the people of today would take to chumras like flys to honey, so they instituted “mitzvah night” as a way to make sure that some smarty pants wouldn’t get the bright idea to forbid sex on shabbos?

Yankel

This is a joke, right?

WACKY MAC & CHOCOLATE PIZZA

Prili is right. One BT told me that he thought that it is forbidden to have relations with his wife during the Nine Days preceeding Tisha B’av.

Very sad. I made it very clear to him that he can.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/perelpesha/ prili

Thats terrible Wacky Mac! And no that wasn’t a joke Yankel, if there is one crazy, they usual end up being a lot more vocal then everyone else. Case in Point: Shabti Tzvi.

MAUREEN

Behold the beauty of the falls of Niagra,
And my wonderful husband took the pill of V–gra.
It makes him so big, so strong,
And makes it last so very long.

Thank God that our s*x life, this vitamin mended
Without which our marriage would have ended.

Hello the beauty falls of Niagra,
Thank you God for creating V–gra.

PacMan

If sex is NOT ONLY for (pro)creation – and, hence, permitted or, alas, encouraged on Shabbat – then why is gay stupping frowned upon? Also, why, then, was Onan punished?