I think the epilogue was written as it was to leave the possibility of another series open in the future.

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I.e. A series about the children.

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I would have rather a series of them as an adult. I wish it were just five years in the future and we see who got married, and what everyone's careers were.

07-23-2007, 03:39 PM

MomLady

Re: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - Book #7

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Was Snape intended to die or not?

Your opinions on Snipe's death. (I need to go back and reread the chapters.)

I think it was an accident, Voldemort killed him. Not sure why. Did he figure out what was going on?

I do not think Dumbledore wanted Snape to die. Dumbledore wanted Snape as headmaster. He understood Snipe's true loyalties to Dumbledore etc.

Even Snipe's punishment of Ginny and the others to the Forbidden Forest, was not a real punishment like some of the other students were getting.

If Snape was alive, I do not think that it would have made sense for Harry to look into Snipe's pensive. Harry would not have learned the true depth of Snape. I think this truth helped Harry kill Voldemort.

I wonder if the wizzarding community would have accepted the fact was really fighting on Dumbledore's side.

07-23-2007, 03:46 PM

Lucy

Re: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - Book #7

MomLady

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Voldemort killed Snape because he believed he had to kill him to take control of the Elder wand. He thought Snape was its true master since he had killed Dumbledore. I don't think Dumbledore expected that.

07-23-2007, 03:50 PM

CCL

Re: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - Book #7

MomLady

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Voldemort had to kill Snape as the Elder Wand only truly worked for the person who had taken it from its former owner by magical means. Dumbledore was the previous ownder of the Elder Wand. Voldemort didn't take the Elder Wand from Dumbledore via battle; he just snatched it from his tomb. Voldemort thought that since Snape had killed Dumbledore then the wand rightfully belonged to Snape. It was only by killing Snape that the wand could then belong to Voldemort and truly work for him. Unfortunately he did not know that Draco had been the one who had disarmed (diswanded?) Dumbledore on the rooftop. As such, the Elder Wand recognized Draco as its true owner, not Snape. So Snape died unnecessarily though, of course, through his death we learned many important things.
From what I understand: When Harry disarmed Draco in the Malfoy home, all wands belonging to Draco (including the Elder Wand) recognized Harry as their new owner. This is why Harry was able to have the Elder Wand turn against Voldemort in the final battle and have the curse he used with it rebound back on him.

As for your other question. I don't think Dumbledore wanted Snape to die. But I think both he and Snape recognized that Snape was in a precarious position by spying on Voldemort and that his death was an always-present possibility.
When Snape told Harry "Look at me" I thought he was trying to send a message to Harry, maybe to be certain to look at Snape's memories straight away. By that time Harry had already collected the memories, however. My sister thought it was because Snape wanted a last chance to see Lily's eyes through Harry's (Harry's eyes were always said to be an exact likeness of Lily's). If that's true, it makes his last moment even more poignant.

Julian - I agree with you about the epilogue.

07-23-2007, 04:28 PM

MomLady

Re: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - Book #7

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCL;2486938;

Click to see Spoiler:

When Snape told Harry "Look at me" I thought he was trying to send a message to Harry, maybe to be certain to look at Snape's memories straight away. By that time Harry had already collected the memories, however. My sister thought it was because Snape wanted a last chance to see Lily's eyes through Harry's (Harry's eyes were always said to be an exact likeness of Lily's). If that's true, it makes his last moment even more poignant.

Thanks CCL and Lucy.

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I forgot that Draco had disarmed Dumbledore. Small but major fact.

As for the eyes, that is intresting. Did Snape love Harry because he was Lilly's son, or wanted to be reminded or Lilly.

I just thought of the look at me as look at those thoughts.

07-23-2007, 04:46 PM

Carla

Re: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - Book #7

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Snape was most definitely meant to die from the very beginning. Not only was he meant to die, but he was meant to die the way he did, for the reasons CCL stated. I would have preferred he died a more heroic death, but it had to be that way. Such a complex and tragic character. I also think that he was asking Harry to look at him because he wanted "Lilly's" eyes to be the last thing he saw before dying.

I'm fairly certain that it was

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Hagrid

who got the reprieve.

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I can't talk real intelligently on it, because I haven't done alot of reading on it, but I believe there's a huge discusson on HPANA about it. Anyway, the theory that Hagrid would die has to do with the stages of alchemy and colors relating to those stages. The colors are black (Sirius), white (Albus) and red (Reubeus). Makes sense to me. Also, the character of Hagrid, although present in all the books, wasn't really central to the overall plot. It was easy to change this. Same with Dobby. And speaking of that, I've been reading some other forums and it seems people are more upset over his death than anyone else's. Interesting.

Someone on another board posted a very interesting theory as to why Umbridge was so nasty.

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Could it be because she had been wearing that Horcrux around her neck for so long? I haven't completely thought it through yet, but I suppose it's possible.

Like most everyone else, I too was disappointed with the epilogue. I was expecting a complete chapter. I really think she did it so that she has the option of writing another book. She has insisted that this is the final Harry Potter book but she has also said "Never say never" and that she's just really burnt out right now. I too would rather see a book about what happens right after the big battle. There's a huge gap of nineteen years there so there are a number of ways she could go with it.

07-23-2007, 05:16 PM

Spoose

Re: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - Book #7

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I thought Umbridge bought the locket horcrux from Mundungus...and he was found to be stealing from 12 Grimmauld Place in book 6...so I think she was nasty all on her own throughout book 5. I also wonder why wearing the horcrux seemed to affect Ron more than Harry and Hermione? Anyone hear any theories on that?

I was also disappointed in the Percy/Weasley family reunion, which was rather weak. I was with everyone who thought Percy would be killed in a heroic fashion and it would bring the family back together.

07-23-2007, 05:29 PM

FireWoman

Re: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - Book #7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoose;2487030;

Click to see Spoiler:

I thought Umbridge bought the locket horcrux from Mundungus...and he was found to be stealing from 12 Grimmauld Place in book 6...so I think she was nasty all on her own throughout book 5. I also wonder why wearing the horcrux seemed to affect Ron more than Harry and Hermione? Anyone hear any theories on that?

I was also disappointed in the Percy/Weasley family reunion, which was rather weak. I was with everyone who thought Percy would be killed in a heroic fashion and it would bring the family back together.

I will agree with you on the Weasley item but the best Weasley moment had to be:

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Molly screaming, not my daughter you bitch, at Bella. I about died!!!

to me it was on par with the comedy and whit of Minerva telling Peeves "it unscrewes the other way" when he was messing with Umbridge. :)

07-23-2007, 05:44 PM

Lucy

Re: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - Book #7

My take on Ron

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is that the locket affected him more because he was more insecure than the other two.

07-23-2007, 06:09 PM

helpmeturnitoff

Re: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - Book #7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoose;2487030;

Click to see Spoiler:

I thought Umbridge bought the locket horcrux from Mundungus...and he was found to be stealing from 12 Grimmauld Place in book 6...so I think she was nasty all on her own throughout book 5.

I agree. It's funny, I was just thinking about

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the locket & Umbridge wearing it

and came here to find it part of the discussion :)

From Book 5 I got the impression that Umbridge was deeply loyal to the Ministry and whatever the Ministry wanted she'd go to the ends of the earth to provide. In Book 5 they wanted Harry labelled a liar and she did whatever she could to provide proof that he was. So in Book 7 it's not entirely surprising that

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she embraced the new regime with vigor and went after muggle-borns like it was her life's ambition. So that brings me back to what I'm trying to figure out -- when H, H, & esp R took turns wearing the locket it changed their moods. How did it affect Umbridge? Was that why she was so happy to persecute muggle-borns? Or did it just amplify her own personality? Was she possessed like Ginny was in CAS, or did part of LV personality seep into her?

And then there's

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Harry's Invisibility cloak. In Book 7 it's stated several times the cloak is impenetrable - to me that means against anything including curses & hexes yet Harry was hit by both when wearing the cloak. In Book 6 Malfoy hexed him, then Dumbledore froze him. I understand JK likely meant it to mean it would never tear or get holey but impenetrable means more than that. So the use of that word has me befuddled.