Try playing either one (especially ele) and then go play all the other profs. You'll see what I mean.

I play one of every profession, and I enjoy them all. Nothing like going on my elementalist and tearing people apart in PvP using double daggers or a scepter+dagger. I don't see how anyone can say they're underpowered with a straight face. Squishy? Without a doubt. Hard to play effectively? Definitively. Underpowered? Not a chance.

Originally Posted by Zephyr Storm

Pretty much everything you said goes against the philosophy that Anet set out with for GW2. They wanted everyone to be able to play any role they wanted, with any class, and still be effective at it.

"Ranged" isn't a role. Support is a role. Control is a role. Damage is a role. The guardian can do all three of these, particularly support.

My main is an 80 guardian. I'm glad I went hammer at 70 and never looked back so that I don't have to worry about relearning my key bindings and cooldowns for greatsword.

That being said, I understand why they did it and why they don't want retaliation to be a permanent boon. I think some of the people crying here and on the GW2 official forums are doing it just for the sake of not liking change.

As for my first character, my 80 elementalist. Well, I haven't even touched her since I rerolled the guardian anyways so I suppose it doesn't matter what they do to them until they get around to buffing them.

I agree that the guardian's options for ranged weapons are horrible but for me at least it's only glaringly obvious in WvWvW. If Anet would do something as simple as make it possible to receive badges of honor for supporting and healing your group and not JUST doing damage, they'd fix the problem themselves without having to change any profession's weapons or skills. However, this thread isn't about that.

All classes: Signer nerfs appear to be about generally fixing direct fire skills to have a facing requirement (i.e. immobilize will be an effective counter to these).

Elementalist: Glyph of renewal was obviously bugged, and made elementalists actually functional in support role as they had a "unique snowflake" resurrector role. No such fear anymore with this fix, elementalists have been pushed into utter uselessness beyond initial encounter support on the ground.
Whirlpool was powerful enough to make elementalists able to challenge other classes in underwater combat. Need to see if elementalist will now become just as useless underwater as he's above it.

Guardian: GS nerf was needed to prevent guardian overstacking in tPvP. Not entirely sure it was enough of a fix either, as bunker guardian is still doable, and you'll still want guardian in their "unique snowflake" role of highly damaging and survivable solo point defender. I suspect this will depend more on team strategy then these nerfs, as they are nowhere near as heavy in terms of "unique snowflake" removal as elementalist nerfs.

Mesmer phantasm nerfs were hilariously weak. Triple bleed phantasm mesmer will still rule sPvP with an iron fist as most people can survive almost as long as phantasm cooldown and mesmer can simply grab another phantasm for utility to compensate for increased cooldown. You'll be weaker against swarms of gimps though.

Thief: pistol whip nerf may or may not be sufficient. Basilisk venom is both a buff and a nerf, needs testing to see if good or bad.

Engineer: always been a bit of a mixed bag and remains one.

Necromancer: minor buffs that are nice, but class needs more direct damage options and less ramp up time at this point rather then skill interaction fixes.

Guardian were OP as hell, idk why the OP beleives otherwise, maybe he's a bit unskilled... crying about the greatsword damage, it was over the roof, the retaliation buff you got from using the 2hand was just stupid, sorry to tell you sir, but the fact that you talk about the "guardian forum qqing" for balance and giving oppinions is just a bad example, take a look at SC2, people cried a fuckton about zerg on 1.5 (mainly terrans) and we've seen a lot of terran domination in tournaments... people just poop out their thoughts without developing much about "what can i do to get a slight advantage (or recover) over what was modified".

I play a Necromancer, which is still the buggiest profession. I am still having fun, despite the bugs. I just make it work. So people whining about a few nerfs makes me really laugh. Learn to adapt. I also think it's hilarious that someone said they'd only buy WoW expansions. Blizzard is probably the worst offender when it comes to nerfing classes to the ground because of being OP in PvP.

Was that revival glyph in OP's post the one that revived DEAD players (not downed, DEAD)? Because if so, that was entirely OP as hell. Dead players are dead, easy revives are only for downed players. Ex: Warrior's Battle Standard. Revives all DOWNED players, does nothing to DEAD players.

Was that revival glyph in OP's post the one that revived DEAD players (not downed, DEAD)? Because if so, that was entirely OP as hell. Dead players are dead, easy revives are only for downed players. Ex: Warrior's Battle Standard. Revives all DOWNED players, does nothing to DEAD players.

Yes, it did. As I said above, it was obviously broken, but it also served a purpose of jury-rigging a broken class with no function in tPvP to actually have a place as a support.

One would expect that they would also fix the problems of the class when making such a fix. They didn't.

Eles are only OP at support. Guardians are only OP at support and some at "tanking". Everything else about those two classes is either bad or just "meh". Anyone else saying otherwise doesn't really have a clue or are just bad and lost to one of those two classes in PvP..

I came into this thread thinking I might get to know something usefull and then I read, "I know everything and everyone who has a different opinion is automaticly wrong"

I will be leaving now, please continue your rant, you seem to enjoy it

I am seriously beginning to doubt Anet's ability to balance a game properly.

While some of the changes were needed (thief and mesmer nerfs), some of the changes were most definitely, absolutely, positively NOT needed (mainly ele and guardian nerfs). I mean what the heck!? Ele, one of the most underpowered classes atm, got even more underpowered by making even more of their abilities useless/subpar. The ONE good underwater ability that actually made eles even remotely close to other professions' underwater abilities received a huge nerf. And their revival glyph is useless now....I mean totally and utterly useless. And guardians....don't even get me started on guardians. They reduce the overall damage greatsword can do (arguably our best, and really only good dps melee weapon...hammer is ok, but not nearly as good), and cause the zeal trait line to become even LESS appealing than it already was because of greatsword's symbol having a 100% increase in its CD (the two things zeal focuses on, GS and symbols).

I am REALLY starting to think Anet just changes things on a whim, without regard to what the changes actually entail. They seem to ignore all the problems that the community brings up on the forums, and decides what is best to "fix" (and I say "fix" because they tend to break/nerf more than doing anything else). And while they "fix" these "problems", they continue to ignore much larger, more serious problems that really, really, really need to be addressed. Such as sooooooo many broken traits for all the profs just to name one.

Really starting to lose faith here. I know the game hasn't been out long, but if this patch was any indication of what is to come, I may be quitting GW2 MUCH sooner than I anticipated.

In regards to the elementalist changes (since that's the only class I play). I don't understand what you're complaints are about.

Clearly the revival glyph was changed because of dungeons and our ability to revive upwards of 3 dead people at once. It was pretty powerful, and was also a good way to pull NPC's through dungeons (such a Magg). The change was probably made to stop groups from rushing through, letting him die, and ranged ressing him to bypass part of the encounter.

Whirlpool - it's whatever. I'm sure it's a big deal to pure underwater PvP but otherwise, it's a moot topic. We're still very powerful underwater in regards to PvE, with multiple ways to damage, CC, heal and escape. But I know a lot of people in this game are only concerned about the damage they do and demanding "big numbers" to be viable - so I sympathize with your frustration.

From a PvE point of view, I'd admit that traited GS is probably a bit OP, especially since several traits cater to it very specifically.. and that was, and still is, probably one of the biggest flaws with it. On the same token, some of the other weapons for guardians are pretty bad (oh hi, mace / shield combo, or hammer), and seem to receive little to no attention.

And no, there's no amazing long-range attack for the class, nor should there be, given everything else they're good at.

"Look around you. We're all liars here, and every one of us is better than you" - PB

Guardians are the paladins of guild wars 2 their damage should be a little sub par ( which is isnt ) for the shear amount of damage soaking abilites they have not to mention that heal
overall take it with a grain of salt its not like they suck now