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Can we talk? *Really* talk? Talk the real? Dying Parties? edition

Submitted by HenryAWallace on Tue, 04/18/2017 - 11:27am

....the report of my death was an exaggeration.1

Duuuuuude! Ours, too!

Pundits have also tread on our grave!"

Every now and again, some political author or another writes an article about the death throes or rigor mortis of the Republican Party2 (or its Tea Party wing3) or of the Democratic Party.4 Don't hold your breath.

After the 2012 general election, even the RNC conducted an "autopsy" on its own party. Yet, Congressional Republicans had done better than Democrats in the 2010 midterms and Republican President Bush the Lesser had left office only four years earlier. When I read the findings of the "autopsy,"5 I concluded that it was even more bogus than I had suspected.

Supposedly, all the "conservative" policies of the GOP were just tickety boo: Only tone, messaging, campaign strategy, etc. needed work. Oh, and Republicans wanted to let everyone know that they are ever so much more inclusive than people may think, particularly as to women (the largest voting group) and maybe even of members of the LGBTQ community (name-checking, but declining comment on, Senator Portman's endorsement of same gender marriage, other than his having a right to make the statement--duh). Problem: GOP policies are exclusionary because the religious right is a critical part of their base and Republican and Libertarian politicians fan xenophobia (because tax dollars); and the trademark tone of Republicans is unpleasant, at best, to all but hard-core Republicans and Libertarians. Amirite, Messrs. Trump and Pence?

Other than as a p.r. move, the "autopsy" seems irrelevant. As noted above, Republicans began taking back Congressional seats pre-autopsy. Despite President Obama's re-election, they did all right in 2012, too. After the 2014 midterms, members of the allegedly deceased GOP held more elected offices in state houses, Governors' mansions6 and Congress than they had held since the New Deal. (To avoid crediting liberal policies, which supposedly make candidates unelectable, both Demlicans and Repubicrats say "since Hoover.")

As of January 2017, members of the Republican Party all but controlled all three branches of federal government, subject only to the late Justice Scalia's replacement being nuked, without precedent, onto the bench Supreme Court of the United States.7 That's one hell of a lively, effective cadaver. (When was the last time Democrats controlled all three, not to mention so many state and local seats?)

I don't see Democrats "demising" any time soon, either. Among many other things, plutocrats will not allow the U.S. become a one-Party nation, which would blow the calming illusion of "democracy;" and no other existing Party can compete with the Republican Party convincingly. Also, Democrats still lead Republicans in the number of registered voters8 and Hillary did (allegedly) win the popular vote in the 2017 Presidential election.

My take: Trump's insanity, the constant drumming from Democrats and the neo-establishment propaganda machine will drive centrists and LOTE voters to the polls, at least until another New Democrat President greatly disappoints.9 Additionally, as "hippies" of all ages have less and less say in the Democratic Party and younger voters become more sane about religion, race and LGBTQ issues, those who once may have voted Republican will vote Democratic (aka, neoliberal-neocon). Meanwhile, some Democrats in power, like the ever-"flexible" Senator Chuck Schumer, will feint left whenever so doing seems expedient, but continue to legislate and campaign neoliberal-neocon.

The Tea Party, of course, is not (yet) actually a political Party. Rather, it's an insidiously-named group within the Republican Party that the Koch brothers astroturfed with the help of Dick Armey,10 well after astro-turning the Democratic Leadership Council. Nonetheless, as stated above, so-called pundits have also predicted or announced the demise of the Tea "Party" prematurely. The Tea Party-ish caucus in Congress, the Freedom Caucus, recently joined Democrats to defeat Ryancare as--believe it or not--the Koch brothers wished.11 So, while Teabaggers are not (yet) able to compete on their own with either the Demlican Party or the Republicrat Party, they can still be effective.

Next in this series: Can we talk? *Really* talk? Talk the real? New Party? edition __________________________________________________________________________________________1 According to wikiquote, whose version seems credible, Samuel Clemens wrote those words and all other versions misquote him. https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Mark_Twain

Oddly, I found reports of the death of the Republican Party faster than reports of the death of the Democratic Party, even though the Republican Party has been growing stronger since 2009. Whether or not this means Democrats whistle in the dark more, I don't know.

6 Why do we let anyone live in mansions on our dime, anyway? Or do or have anything, courtesy of our tax dollars, that most taxpayers cannot afford? Just how flocking sheepled and/or idolatrous are we?

9 IMO, the results of the historic midterms of 1992 suggest that the first New Democrat President. Bill Clinton, finally snipped the incredibly long coattails of Franklin D. Roosevelt (which, perhaps, were also those of John F. Kennedy and Lydon B. Johnson). Also IMO, the results of the 2010 and 2014 midterm elections and the 2017 general election speak for themselves as to the New Democrat Congress and perhaps also of Obamacare, although President Obama continued to be popular.

Early in Obama's first term, someone did a special on Christmas at the White House. The extravagance was unreal.

Over 50 live trees inside--and you can bet they were not scrawny little trees. An 800-pound gingerbread house. (Imagine the hours spent on that in White House kitchen or the cost, if bought from a bakery!) A team of 50 professional decorators, one from each state, to decorate the White House and the Vice President's official residence. The announcer said they donate their time, but who paid to fly them to D.C. from Hawaii, Washington, Maine, etc? Who paid for their living expenses while they were in D.C.? (I bet they weren't expected to stay at a Red Roof Inn or eat at Denny's, either.) And on and on for a half hour or an hour.

I guess viewers were supposed to be thrilled the Obamas and Bidens got to celebrate the season in such style? Meanwhile, outside the tone deaf bubble, we were officially in two wars abroad and, at home, people were getting foreclosed on and sued for the shortfall left and right.

I think there was blowback: When I saw the official website write up after that, it mentioned that a record for the number of trees had been broken during the Eisenhower administration but, "since then" there have been more trees than that, on occasion.

What kind of convoluted statement is that? Why pick on Eisenhower, who left office well over a half century ago? I don't remember the number of trees cited at the website as being in Ike's White House, but it could not have been more than 26, fewer than half of the number of trees cited in the program I saw. So soome other, later President(s) set a record or records that were broken, too.

Whatever that program was intended to do, all it did for me was make me start thinking that we should stop assuming our elected officials need to live like emperors rent free for as long as they manage to stay in office--and get comfortable salaries and much more in fringe benefits, in the bargain. Not to mention the consulting and speaking fees later on. PSMA (Public "Servants," My Ass.)

Early in Obama's first term, someone did a special on Christmas at the White House. The extravagance was unreal.

Over 50 live trees inside--and you can bet they were not scrawny little trees. An 800-pound gingerbread house. (Imagine the hours spent on that in White House kitchen or the cost, if bought from a bakery!) A team of 50 professional decorators, one from each state, to decorate the White House and the Vice President's official residence. The announcer said they donate their time, but who paid to fly them to D.C. from Hawaii, Washington, Maine, etc? Who paid for their living expenses while they were in D.C.? (I bet they weren't expected to stay at a Red Roof Inn or eat at Denny's, either.) And on and on for a half hour or an hour.

I guess viewers were supposed to be thrilled the Obamas and Bidens got to celebrate the season in such style? Meanwhile, outside the tone deaf bubble, we were officially in two wars abroad and, at home, people were getting foreclosed on and sued for the shortfall left and right.

I think there was blowback: When I saw the official website write up after that, it mentioned that a record for the number of trees had been broken during the Eisenhower administration but, "since then" there have been more trees than that, on occasion.

What kind of convoluted statement is that? Why pick on Eisenhower, who left office well over a half century ago? I don't remember the number of trees cited at the website as being in Ike's White House, but it could not have been more than 26, fewer than half of the number of trees cited in the program I saw. So soome other, later President(s) set a record or records that were broken, too.

Whatever that program was intended to do, all it did for me was make me start thinking that we should stop assuming our elected officials need to live like emperors rent free for as long as they manage to stay in office--and get comfortable salaries and much more in fringe benefits, in the bargain. Not to mention the consulting and speaking fees later on. PSMA (Public "Servants," My Ass.)

As if two people doing something wrong cancel each other out and no harm at all has been done.

I remember well that during the early years of the Obama administration, everyone from Jon Stewart to my fellow posters could not wait to point out that Bush had something before Obama did it. Suddenly, the guy Democrats had been shaming for 8 years, most often with very good reason, became the only standard to which a Democratic President was held. Still smh.

#3.1 Republican. They had to point out that the 'other side" does it too!

Otherwise there is no fucking use for the party. Even with Oligarchic backing. But the Trumposaurus is doing his best to reclaim the title of WOTE.

I don't see Democrats "demising" any time soon, either. Among many other things, plutocrats will not allow the U.S. become a one-Party nation, which would blow the calming illusion of "democracy;" and no other existing Party can compete with the Republican Party convincingly. Also, Democrats still lead Republicans in the number of registered voters

Without resorting to Wikiquotes, because it really doesn't matter who said this first: "the Democrats and Republicans take turns losing. It's agreed upon".

I have never voted for a Republican and won't vote for a Democrat, at least not if I live in a bright red or deep blue state. If I were ever to vote in either the Republican or the Democratic primary, it would be to try to make sure the worst candidate lost, to try to minimize danger to the country. But not good old Clair!

She risked sending the worst candidate from Missouri to the U.S. Senate for selfish reasons. Like Hillary, for whom McCaskill was a surrogate i2015-16, apparently the only thing that matters to McCaskill is her own career.

IMO, voting for a Vichy Democrat on theory that he or she is the lesser evil has become a mindless knee jerk. Long term, that may be the worst possible thing a voter can do because it helps keep pushing the country right. Could a Trump ever have won a Presidential election at any time before the DLC formed?

Otherwise there is no fucking use for the party. Even with Oligarchic backing. But the Trumposaurus is doing his best to reclaim the title of WOTE.

I don't see Democrats "demising" any time soon, either. Among many other things, plutocrats will not allow the U.S. become a one-Party nation, which would blow the calming illusion of "democracy;" and no other existing Party can compete with the Republican Party convincingly. Also, Democrats still lead Republicans in the number of registered voters

Without resorting to Wikiquotes, because it really doesn't matter who said this first: "the Democrats and Republicans take turns losing. It's agreed upon".

She risked sending the worst candidate from Missouri to the U.S. Senate for selfish reasons. Like Hillary, for whom McCaskill was a surrogate in 2015-16, apparently the only thing that matters to McCaskill is her own career.

So true. Karma is a bitch (is that now misogynistic to say?). Now Clair is on her knees (like Kelly-Anne Conway) offering blow jobs to Berniecrats to help her out. Yeah, Clair, which way did you come in?

I have never voted for a Republican and won't vote for a Democrat, at least not if I live in a bright red or deep blue state. If I were ever to vote in either the Republican or the Democratic primary, it would be to try to make sure the worst candidate lost, to try to minimize danger to the country. But not good old Clair!

She risked sending the worst candidate from Missouri to the U.S. Senate for selfish reasons. Like Hillary, for whom McCaskill was a surrogate i2015-16, apparently the only thing that matters to McCaskill is her own career.

IMO, voting for a Vichy Democrat on theory that he or she is the lesser evil has become a mindless knee jerk. Long term, that may be the worst possible thing a voter can do because it helps keep pushing the country right. Could a Trump ever have won a Presidential election at any time before the DLC formed?

She risked sending the worst candidate from Missouri to the U.S. Senate for selfish reasons. Like Hillary, for whom McCaskill was a surrogate in 2015-16, apparently the only thing that matters to McCaskill is her own career.

So true. Karma is a bitch (is that now misogynistic to say?). Now Clair is on her knees (like Kelly-Anne Conway) offering blow jobs to Berniecrats to help her out. Yeah, Clair, which way did you come in?

Never thought I'd ever say those words but there they are. I guess I am on a bunch of "lists" too, not the mailing kind. Wtf it's in my nature to want freedom gosh darn it, I can't help it. Freedom from corporate rule is a good goal in my view. "Hurting" them means something completely different then hurting a poor person on the edge. One makes a little less money, or maybe a lot and goes bankrupt, the other literally suffers and dies. "That's the system."

Speaking of dying parties, anyone catch Dianne Feinstein's town hall? Wowee. I'd apologize but I haven't voted for her since "The Year of the Woman". omfg, THAT I will apologize for, it never dies. Looky
Torches of Freedom, Year of the Woman, Fearless Girl, I'm With Her, etc.. Empty rhetoric much?

Never thought I'd ever say those words but there they are. I guess I am on a bunch of "lists" too, not the mailing kind. Wtf it's in my nature to want freedom gosh darn it, I can't help it. Freedom from corporate rule is a good goal in my view. "Hurting" them means something completely different then hurting a poor person on the edge. One makes a little less money, or maybe a lot and goes bankrupt, the other literally suffers and dies. "That's the system."

Speaking of dying parties, anyone catch Dianne Feinstein's town hall? Wowee. I'd apologize but I haven't voted for her since "The Year of the Woman". omfg, THAT I will apologize for, it never dies. Looky
Torches of Freedom, Year of the Woman, Fearless Girl, I'm With Her, etc.. Empty rhetoric much?

But some phrase crimes are just worth the risk of getting caught by the phrase theft police, though. "Vichy Democrats' is one. "Demlicans and Republicrats" is another, IMO, because it sums up so much so perfectly. (I have no recollection of where or when I stole that one, but I think the statute of limitations must have run out by now out, so I think I'm safe.)

Fair warning that the Kochs et al are also running government in Canada, certainly since NAFTA.

Although the fact that, as one of Harper's coterie complained, 'Canadians have too many rights' and that Canadians seem to be perhaps more protective of theirs than Americans, having not suffered under as severe a history of propagandization until fairly recently, seems to have slowed thing down a bit, despite 'trade deals' illegally purportedly depriving citizens of rights in illegally granting 'rights' extending to that of outright poisoning the people and country for the profit of pathological and hostile self-interests to such self-interests.

So Canadians have been rapidly catching up with Americans in rates and types of industrial diseases and dysfunctions, as well as in increasing poverty... now, that's spreading democracy as another term for the imposition of a fascist oligarchy!

As I've posted, Third Way was not only a US initiative. It was European as well. (Remember Tony Blair, to name only one?) We're at war with over half the Arab-speaking countries. I'd half to jump a wall to get into Mexico. Imma steer clear of the former Soviet Union nations(unless, of course, I audition to join Pussy Riot). I cannot imagine living in the far east or Saudi Arabia. The Arctic and Antarctic are too cold. Republicans and farm land hoarders are all over Africa. Rupert Murdoch is from Australia, so I'm leery.

Fair warning that the Kochs et al are also running government in Canada, certainly since NAFTA.

Although the fact that, as one of Harper's coterie complained, 'Canadians have too many rights' and that Canadians seem to be perhaps more protective of theirs than Americans, having not suffered under as severe a history of propagandization until fairly recently, seems to have slowed thing down a bit, despite 'trade deals' illegally purportedly depriving citizens of rights in illegally granting 'rights' extending to that of outright poisoning the people and country for the profit of pathological and hostile self-interests to such self-interests.

So Canadians have been rapidly catching up with Americans in rates and types of industrial diseases and dysfunctions, as well as in increasing poverty... now, that's spreading democracy as another term for the imposition of a fascist oligarchy!

Well, if any one of us finds a suitable place, perhaps we can all share transport for a mass migration? Unfortunately, the plan evidently is to leave us nowhere else to go, if we cannot somehow defend and regain our own democracies from the Parasite Class...

As I've posted, Third Way was not only a US initiative. It was European as well. (Remember Tony Blair, to name only one?) We're at war with over half the Arab-speaking countries. I'd half to jump a wall to get into Mexico. Imma steer clear of the former Soviet Union nations(unless, of course, I audition to join Pussy Riot). I cannot imagine living in the far east or Saudi Arabia. The Arctic and Antarctic are too cold. Republicans and farm land hoarders are all over Africa. Rupert Murdoch is from Australia, so I'm leery.

Any idea what's shaking in Bogota? Tobago?

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1 user has voted.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Then again, people the existing small island nations are islandexiting because of the melting polar ice caps.

Maybe we're just clucked and choosing between denial and acceptance is our only option. For now, I'm clinging to denial. It's hard to be denial after you admit you're in denial, but I have confidence I can do that!

Well, if any one of us finds a suitable place, perhaps we can all share transport for a mass migration? Unfortunately, the plan evidently is to leave us nowhere else to go, if we cannot somehow defend and regain our own democracies from the Parasite Class...

Then again, people the existing small island nations are islandexiting because of the melting polar ice caps.

Maybe we're just clucked and choosing between denial and acceptance is our only option. For now, I'm clinging to denial. It's hard to be denial after you admit you're in denial, but I have confidence I can do that!

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0 users have voted.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

"In the ad ("Supporting" Her), Sanders would tout Clinton for her education, healthcare and minimum wage proposals.
And he would talk about how then-Republican nominee Donald Trump was wrong about climate change and the economy.
At the end of the script were the words: "I'm with her."
“It’s so phony!” Sanders said. “I don’t want to say that.”

Sanders did not use the slogan in the ad.

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6 users have voted.

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the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

@Wink
I wish I could see what you guys see, it must look so much better than what my eyes and ears are taking in. I was glad to see a little push back on Feinstein at her town hall meeting, that's where the forks should be pointing, at the housing destroyers, the ones creating poverty and perpetuating it as long as they all shall live. "... absolute power corrupts absolutely." "That's the system."

California just elected Kamala Harris to Boxer's seat, same same. She is worse, I think. That just happened. Fuck the DNC, and anyone trying to recruit for them, that's how I feel. But good luck to Berniecrats, keep going. Every one has to do something, or not. There's a lot going for not playing their game too, I think. We'll see. Thanks.

about Bernie, 04/18/2017...

"In the ad ("Supporting" Her), Sanders would tout Clinton for her education, healthcare and minimum wage proposals.
And he would talk about how then-Republican nominee Donald Trump was wrong about climate change and the economy.
At the end of the script were the words: "I'm with her."
“It’s so phony!” Sanders said. “I don’t want to say that.”

I know a lot about Bernie, because I have posted about him since maybe 2009 and I don't post about stuff about which I know nothing. Still, to clear up my confusion, I need to know much more about Bernie than knowing he is comfortable campaigning for both Hillary and her husband, just not comfortable repeating a three-word campaign slogan. Even much more than everything I've already learned about him.

about Bernie, 04/18/2017...

"In the ad ("Supporting" Her), Sanders would tout Clinton for her education, healthcare and minimum wage proposals.
And he would talk about how then-Republican nominee Donald Trump was wrong about climate change and the economy.
At the end of the script were the words: "I'm with her."
“It’s so phony!” Sanders said. “I don’t want to say that.”

@HenryAWallace
not to "endorse" Her Highness, but hoping for a miracle he surely knew wasn't coming. Team Hillary needed to practically pull out the Troops to keep Berners from crowning Bernie. Lighting, "You Can't Sit Here" signs... well, we all watched the fiasco. No, Bernie didn't roll into Philly to kiss Her ass. Promises were made to "support the winner" and he did that. Without enthusiasm. And Hillary knew it. "Hillary supports a $15 wage... " Bernie getting in his stump speech points while at the same time giving Hillary a poke. A two-fer! (get on board the prog train, bitch, or you will surely lose this thing)! Hillary bristling every time Bernie took the podium to -ahem- "Campaign" for her.
Bernie taking the long way around this thing becuz I suspect he suspects it's the only way to win. Follow the DNC around some "Unity tour" thing while getting in his stump speech points. "We need to transform the Democratic party!" Does That sound like sucking the DNC's dick to you? I don't think it did to Perez neither. Just Bernie doing what he can to keep the "revolution" momentum momentuming. He may have a clue that he is the most powerful politician in D.C. outside of Trump. Or not. His obligation with HRC and the DNC completed, many of us expected Bernie to flip off the DNC and get back out there on the trail, stirring up the revolution. I said in these very pages that that is exactly what would happen. And it still may. Bernie just may get tired of the "Unity" charade horse$h!t, flip off the DNC, and get back on the trail; same as he was sick of pretending to "support" Her Highness, not able to say, "I'm with her."
But, I now suspect we'll have to suffer the long way around, wait for this to play out, wait for Bernie's next move. Or not. Or join Justice Dems and get on with that. But, the longer †his "revolution" takes to unfold the less likely it is to succeed. Something I'm sure Bernie knows only too well.

I know a lot about Bernie, because I have posted about him since maybe 2009 and I don't post about stuff about which I know nothing. Still, to clear up my confusion, I need to know much more about Bernie than knowing he is comfortable campaigning for both Hillary and her husband, just not comfortable repeating a three-word campaign slogan. Even much more than everything I've already learned about him.

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4 users have voted.

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the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

Bernie endorsed Hillary and campaigned at her side before the Democratic National Convention. I don't believe that Bernie is so stupid or naive as to have hoped for a miracle at the Convention. This is not 1952 or 1968.

Bernie and his supporters, especially his supporters, did what very little they could at that point, which was to fight as hard as they could for the strongest possible, although totally non-binding platform. And even though the platform was non-binding, they did not get everything they fought for.

I have no delusion that Hillary was going to do anything with Bernie's points but use them to campaign against Bernie during the primary. I very much doubt Bernie had that delusion, though I believe that he would have done his best to pressure her, had she been elected.

For me, nothing is about Bernie and never was, even though I donated and worked my bottom off for him during the primary. It's about outcomes for the great majority of Americans. Some say 99%, some say 90%, whatever. Even 67 percent would be more than enough.

If you think posting in support of Bernie is the route to good outcomes for the majority, go for it and more power to you.

#6.2
not to "endorse" Her Highness, but hoping for a miracle he surely knew wasn't coming. Team Hillary needed to practically pull out the Troops to keep Berners from crowning Bernie. Lighting, "You Can't Sit Here" signs... well, we all watched the fiasco. No, Bernie didn't roll into Philly to kiss Her ass. Promises were made to "support the winner" and he did that. Without enthusiasm. And Hillary knew it. "Hillary supports a $15 wage... " Bernie getting in his stump speech points while at the same time giving Hillary a poke. A two-fer! (get on board the prog train, bitch, or you will surely lose this thing)! Hillary bristling every time Bernie took the podium to -ahem- "Campaign" for her.
Bernie taking the long way around this thing becuz I suspect he suspects it's the only way to win. Follow the DNC around some "Unity tour" thing while getting in his stump speech points. "We need to transform the Democratic party!" Does That sound like sucking the DNC's dick to you? I don't think it did to Perez neither. Just Bernie doing what he can to keep the "revolution" momentum momentuming. He may have a clue that he is the most powerful politician in D.C. outside of Trump. Or not. His obligation with HRC and the DNC completed, many of us expected Bernie to flip off the DNC and get back out there on the trail, stirring up the revolution. I said in these very pages that that is exactly what would happen. And it still may. Bernie just may get tired of the "Unity" charade horse$h!t, flip off the DNC, and get back on the trail; same as he was sick of pretending to "support" Her Highness, not able to say, "I'm with her."
But, I now suspect we'll have to suffer the long way around, wait for this to play out, wait for Bernie's next move. Or not. Or join Justice Dems and get on with that. But, the longer †his "revolution" takes to unfold the less likely it is to succeed. Something I'm sure Bernie knows only too well.

Whether he's right, wrong or sideways in taking this tack, Bernie's known for continuing to try different angles until achieving 'impossible' successes resulting in improvements for some of America's most vulnerable - although I do think a suitable 3rd party also ought to be created/supported.

#6.2
not to "endorse" Her Highness, but hoping for a miracle he surely knew wasn't coming. Team Hillary needed to practically pull out the Troops to keep Berners from crowning Bernie. Lighting, "You Can't Sit Here" signs... well, we all watched the fiasco. No, Bernie didn't roll into Philly to kiss Her ass. Promises were made to "support the winner" and he did that. Without enthusiasm. And Hillary knew it. "Hillary supports a $15 wage... " Bernie getting in his stump speech points while at the same time giving Hillary a poke. A two-fer! (get on board the prog train, bitch, or you will surely lose this thing)! Hillary bristling every time Bernie took the podium to -ahem- "Campaign" for her.
Bernie taking the long way around this thing becuz I suspect he suspects it's the only way to win. Follow the DNC around some "Unity tour" thing while getting in his stump speech points. "We need to transform the Democratic party!" Does That sound like sucking the DNC's dick to you? I don't think it did to Perez neither. Just Bernie doing what he can to keep the "revolution" momentum momentuming. He may have a clue that he is the most powerful politician in D.C. outside of Trump. Or not. His obligation with HRC and the DNC completed, many of us expected Bernie to flip off the DNC and get back out there on the trail, stirring up the revolution. I said in these very pages that that is exactly what would happen. And it still may. Bernie just may get tired of the "Unity" charade horse$h!t, flip off the DNC, and get back on the trail; same as he was sick of pretending to "support" Her Highness, not able to say, "I'm with her."
But, I now suspect we'll have to suffer the long way around, wait for this to play out, wait for Bernie's next move. Or not. Or join Justice Dems and get on with that. But, the longer †his "revolution" takes to unfold the less likely it is to succeed. Something I'm sure Bernie knows only too well.

up

1 user has voted.

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

@Ellen North
problem with chasing after a new party. it is one avenue to pursue, and it ultimately may be the way Leftys go. In fact I think we should pursue both Bernie's path and chasing after a new party. One doesn't diminish the other.

Whether he's right, wrong or sideways in taking this tack, Bernie's known for continuing to try different angles until achieving 'impossible' successes resulting in improvements for some of America's most vulnerable - although I do think a suitable 3rd party also ought to be created/supported.

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2 users have voted.

—

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

@Wink
just curious if you look behind any curtains ever, who do you think is funding Bernie now? He has "raised" $240,000,000 for Ds over his career, that is more than many people can even imagine in lifetime "earnings". The 240 million dollar man. Bernie and Jerry Brown (among hordes of others), raised a lot of money here for what now? Certainly not living wages or affordable housing, as far as I can see since 1989. So what then? Do tell.

No PAC money but so what? Look at all those west coast companies and tell me how good it is here now? I mean for everyone, not just the middle and upper classes, they may be struggling too but it's not equivalent. As long as the corporate system of bribery exists, via lobbyists and consultants, no real change will be allowed. That is the lesson learned since the 70s, over and over. One step forward, two steps back, that is the dance.

Now watch while the millionaire pols retire, and then expect Berniecrats to be pure and honest within a rotted system? Um, you know what? That is what we thought about the Clintons in the 90s (I was a D, my brother was a DNC delegate). I guess it's why I don't believe the current pep rally b.s., 'cause I've been there, done that. Every one has been shown they have a price, even the Bern. "That's the system."

#6.2
not to "endorse" Her Highness, but hoping for a miracle he surely knew wasn't coming. Team Hillary needed to practically pull out the Troops to keep Berners from crowning Bernie. Lighting, "You Can't Sit Here" signs... well, we all watched the fiasco. No, Bernie didn't roll into Philly to kiss Her ass. Promises were made to "support the winner" and he did that. Without enthusiasm. And Hillary knew it. "Hillary supports a $15 wage... " Bernie getting in his stump speech points while at the same time giving Hillary a poke. A two-fer! (get on board the prog train, bitch, or you will surely lose this thing)! Hillary bristling every time Bernie took the podium to -ahem- "Campaign" for her.
Bernie taking the long way around this thing becuz I suspect he suspects it's the only way to win. Follow the DNC around some "Unity tour" thing while getting in his stump speech points. "We need to transform the Democratic party!" Does That sound like sucking the DNC's dick to you? I don't think it did to Perez neither. Just Bernie doing what he can to keep the "revolution" momentum momentuming. He may have a clue that he is the most powerful politician in D.C. outside of Trump. Or not. His obligation with HRC and the DNC completed, many of us expected Bernie to flip off the DNC and get back out there on the trail, stirring up the revolution. I said in these very pages that that is exactly what would happen. And it still may. Bernie just may get tired of the "Unity" charade horse$h!t, flip off the DNC, and get back on the trail; same as he was sick of pretending to "support" Her Highness, not able to say, "I'm with her."
But, I now suspect we'll have to suffer the long way around, wait for this to play out, wait for Bernie's next move. Or not. Or join Justice Dems and get on with that. But, the longer †his "revolution" takes to unfold the less likely it is to succeed. Something I'm sure Bernie knows only too well.

@eyo@eyo
how does that compare with other Dems that have been around since 1989 and I suspect those numbers would be very similar. How does an old nobody from a nowhere state generate $240 Million? The same way everybody else does.
My only "Bernie worship" is in looking at what he has done - kicked total ass - and thinking that there is absolutely zero reason why he can't still do that. It begins and ends there. That is, I don't care from whom or which direction we move Leftward, just that we do. In my less-than-humble opinion Bernie is a Player and getting us there. Not only a Player, but the Biggest player. Nobody else has even expressed an interest, let alone reached out to Leftys with an offer to help. NOBODY.
So... So... So... I just don't get all this anti-Bernie sentiment here. ok, so he "betrayed" the Left. Who hasn't? Bernie the ONLY Dem out there working to move this party Leftward. That he does so while attached to the Rightward DNC... as I've said here, politics isn't a straight line, and often includes strange bedfellows. I was hoping once Hillary got beat and Bernie was done with her that he would turn and face DNC Headquarters and flip them off with an F.U., double middle fingers - then get back to the business of moving the overton window. That he didn't... my guess is he had reasons. He still out there moving the window. You don't wish to go Bernie's way find another way. I think everyone here is on the same page, at least, as to moving that window.

#6.2.1 just curious if you look behind any curtains ever, who do you think is funding Bernie now? He has "raised" $240,000,000 for Ds over his career, that is more than many people can even imagine in lifetime "earnings". The 240 million dollar man. Bernie and Jerry Brown (among hordes of others), raised a lot of money here for what now? Certainly not living wages or affordable housing, as far as I can see since 1989. So what then? Do tell.

No PAC money but so what? Look at all those west coast companies and tell me how good it is here now? I mean for everyone, not just the middle and upper classes, they may be struggling too but it's not equivalent. As long as the corporate system of bribery exists, via lobbyists and consultants, no real change will be allowed. That is the lesson learned since the 70s, over and over. One step forward, two steps back, that is the dance.

Now watch while the millionaire pols retire, and then expect Berniecrats to be pure and honest within a rotted system? Um, you know what? That is what we thought about the Clintons in the 90s (I was a D, my brother was a DNC delegate). I guess it's why I don't believe the current pep rally b.s., 'cause I've been there, done that. Every one has been shown they have a price, even the Bern. "That's the system."

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the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

@Wink
Okay that kinda sounds like someone else, oh never mind. Sorry you can't grok any of the "other ways" to change an oligarchy, besides electoral politics. Have fun doing what's always been done.

Yes we can! {world burns}. Ouchy, c'mon louder! LOL ~shrug~, that is how it looks and sounds to me now, and some others too, but I can only speak for me. Good luck.

#6.2.1.3#6.2.1.3
how does that compare with other Dems that have been around since 1989 and I suspect those numbers would be very similar. How does an old nobody from a nowhere state generate $240 Million? The same way everybody else does.
My only "Bernie worship" is in looking at what he has done - kicked total ass - and thinking that there is absolutely zero reason why he can't still do that. It begins and ends there. That is, I don't care from whom or which direction we move Leftward, just that we do. In my less-than-humble opinion Bernie is a Player and getting us there. Not only a Player, but the Biggest player. Nobody else has even expressed an interest, let alone reached out to Leftys with an offer to help. NOBODY.
So... So... So... I just don't get all this anti-Bernie sentiment here. ok, so he "betrayed" the Left. Who hasn't? Bernie the ONLY Dem out there working to move this party Leftward. That he does so while attached to the Rightward DNC... as I've said here, politics isn't a straight line, and often includes strange bedfellows. I was hoping once Hillary got beat and Bernie was done with her that he would turn and face DNC Headquarters and flip them off with an F.U., double middle fingers - then get back to the business of moving the overton window. That he didn't... my guess is he had reasons. He still out there moving the window. You don't wish to go Bernie's way find another way. I think everyone here is on the same page, at least, as to moving that window.

@eyo
Just saying there are other ways besides Bernie's, so... don't like Bernie's find another one.

#6.2.1.3.1 Okay that kinda sounds like someone else, oh never mind. Sorry you can't grok any of the "other ways" to change an oligarchy, besides electoral politics. Have fun doing what's always been done.

Yes we can! {world burns}. Ouchy, c'mon louder! LOL ~shrug~, that is how it looks and sounds to me now, and some others too, but I can only speak for me. Good luck.

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the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

Do you remember the filthy and illogical Dem nomination smears attempted against Bernie and the accusations by the Clinton/Brock faction that Bernie failed to help support down-ticket Dems, while also later attacking him for attending annual Big Donor fundraisers in order to raise money from Big Donors for down-ticket Dems - all the while, the DNC/Clinton campaign, bragging about their support for down-ticket Dems, was siphoning off funds donated to various states for down-ticket Dems, via a joint account where the freshly semi-laundered money wound up being available to the Clinton campaign to do with as they willed?

This is (yet again) more of the same-old, same-old smear. The Psychopaths That Be keep using the same resurrected propaganda because people too-often seem to figure that surely this time it'll be true, since even a stopped clock is right twice a day and there's been so much work invested to try to frame Bernie as 'just another politician scheming for betrayal of the public' and the notion of 'government of, by, and for the people' as being nothing more than a unicorn scrawl on some useless 'piece of paper' representing the basis and direction of law - which they had to swear to uphold and must uphold to legitimately gain or retain public office.

Everything depends upon the Psychopath Class successfully conning the public to regard what they do as 'legal', even when in defiance of not only the people's Constitutional and human rights and international law but toward the destruction-for-profit of the ability of life to survive on the planet.

Where do you suppose this accumulated amount of money raised by Bernie from corporate sources - between 1989 and the end of 2016, so also over a period of 27 years - specifically for down-ticket Dems went, whatever is being implied by the increasingly desperate smear machine, and what factions do you suppose are desperately afraid of Bernie's message of democracy and legitimate government of, by, and for the people - not the corporations and billionaires - and its growing power as he disseminates it throughout the previously isolated watchers of corporate propaganda media who can still recognize truth when they hear it?

There is still a chance of a pacific political revolution, or they wouldn't be so freaking panicky about this strategy, as it unfolds.

We must never forgive and even more importantly, we must never forget, or we'll be lost in the ceaseless flood of propaganda created by experts often paid by the public it's used against.

Edited to make the point of the 27-year time-period involved in what the corporate Dems no doubt regard as tiddly-winks for annual down-ticket or other fundraising.

#6.2.1 just curious if you look behind any curtains ever, who do you think is funding Bernie now? He has "raised" $240,000,000 for Ds over his career, that is more than many people can even imagine in lifetime "earnings". The 240 million dollar man. Bernie and Jerry Brown (among hordes of others), raised a lot of money here for what now? Certainly not living wages or affordable housing, as far as I can see since 1989. So what then? Do tell.

No PAC money but so what? Look at all those west coast companies and tell me how good it is here now? I mean for everyone, not just the middle and upper classes, they may be struggling too but it's not equivalent. As long as the corporate system of bribery exists, via lobbyists and consultants, no real change will be allowed. That is the lesson learned since the 70s, over and over. One step forward, two steps back, that is the dance.

Now watch while the millionaire pols retire, and then expect Berniecrats to be pure and honest within a rotted system? Um, you know what? That is what we thought about the Clintons in the 90s (I was a D, my brother was a DNC delegate). I guess it's why I don't believe the current pep rally b.s., 'cause I've been there, done that. Every one has been shown they have a price, even the Bern. "That's the system."

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2 users have voted.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

@Ellen North
like I said above, good luck with your strategy. Really go on, amaze me I am ready. As far as lifting a finger to help Ds, and not make them ever pay for being so morally corrupt, I'll pass this time around, thanks. And I won't shut up about how ethically challenged it appears to me, despite the class differences that are showing up again, as always. Good thing this all just blog talk, and nothing of serious importance.

Do you remember the filthy and illogical Dem nomination smears attempted against Bernie and the accusations by the Clinton/Brock faction that Bernie failed to help support down-ticket Dems, while also later attacking him for attending annual Big Donor fundraisers in order to raise money from Big Donors for down-ticket Dems - all the while, the DNC/Clinton campaign, bragging about their support for down-ticket Dems, was siphoning off funds donated to various states for down-ticket Dems, via a joint account where the freshly semi-laundered money wound up being available to the Clinton campaign to do with as they willed?

This is (yet again) more of the same-old, same-old smear. The Psychopaths That Be keep using the same resurrected propaganda because people too-often seem to figure that surely this time it'll be true, since even a stopped clock is right twice a day and there's been so much work invested to try to frame Bernie as 'just another politician scheming for betrayal of the public' and the notion of 'government of, by, and for the people' as being nothing more than a unicorn scrawl on some useless 'piece of paper' representing the basis and direction of law - which they had to swear to uphold and must uphold to legitimately gain or retain public office.

Everything depends upon the Psychopath Class successfully conning the public to regard what they do as 'legal', even when in defiance of not only the people's Constitutional and human rights and international law but toward the destruction-for-profit of the ability of life to survive on the planet.

Where do you suppose this accumulated amount of money raised by Bernie from corporate sources - between 1989 and the end of 2016, so also over a period of 27 years - specifically for down-ticket Dems went, whatever is being implied by the increasingly desperate smear machine, and what factions do you suppose are desperately afraid of Bernie's message of democracy and legitimate government of, by, and for the people - not the corporations and billionaires - and its growing power as he disseminates it throughout the previously isolated watchers of corporate propaganda media who can still recognize truth when they hear it?

There is still a chance of a pacific political revolution, or they wouldn't be so freaking panicky about this strategy, as it unfolds.

We must never forgive and even more importantly, we must never forget, or we'll be lost in the ceaseless flood of propaganda created by experts often paid by the public it's used against.

Edited to make the point of the 27-year time-period involved in what the corporate Dems no doubt regard as tiddly-winks for annual down-ticket or other fundraising.

Oh, the corporate Dems should pay! Although there's not enough money in the world to make up for the damages done by corporate party corruption, at home and abroad... And I would personally rather see all corporate/billionaire parties vanish into the nightmarish mists of a mercifully fading past. But this may well happen yet. The only time, it appears, that a new political party has ever, in American history, succeeded in replacing a predominating Party, is by a popular, populist politician leading away disillusioned voters from a failed Party to a shiny new one. I find this an interesting thought, myself.

Edit: And good for you. We should never vote for evil.

#6.2.1.3.2 like I said above, good luck with your strategy. Really go on, amaze me I am ready. As far as lifting a finger to help Ds, and not make them ever pay for being so morally corrupt, I'll pass this time around, thanks. And I won't shut up about how ethically challenged it appears to me, despite the class differences that are showing up again, as always. Good thing this all just blog talk, and nothing of serious importance.

up

0 users have voted.

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Lol, and everyone spits coffee, knowing damn well that the Clintons are economic and human rights vampires of the Psychopath Class and likely swears never to vote for any such evil, even if Trump is the result.

And they can't stop Bernie from making that point every time he speaks, merely by providing contrast to the corporate Democan'ts, no matter what he has to say to get the message of 'government of, by and for the people - not the anti-public-interest corporations and billionaires' which both corporate wings of the Two-Faced corporate Party Trade-Off so clearly and provably represent/are formed of - through to the corporate-media-restricted American public.

He damns her with fake praise showing what she isn't.

about Bernie, 04/18/2017...

"In the ad ("Supporting" Her), Sanders would tout Clinton for her education, healthcare and minimum wage proposals.
And he would talk about how then-Republican nominee Donald Trump was wrong about climate change and the economy.
At the end of the script were the words: "I'm with her."
“It’s so phony!” Sanders said. “I don’t want to say that.”

Sanders did not use the slogan in the ad.

up

2 users have voted.

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

@Ellen North@Ellen North
get is eyo and many here who claim or at least hint at being involved in the politicking biz a Long time apparently don't see this? Bernie HAS been damning her with faint praise for nearly two years, and after Cali, even, and during his -ahem- cough- "endorsement" -cough- of Her at the Coronation in Philly and, yes, even After Philly and the "unity tour."
Bernie said in Philly during his "endorsement" speech that, "Hillary believes as we all do in a $15 min. wage... " One can hear Hillary's panties bunching up as Bernie's -ahem- "praise" of Hillary continued. But, I never heard him say, "I wholeheartedly endorse Hillary for prez." Maybe he said that, maybe it was my lame hearing, but I never heard him say that. What I heard was, "we must stop Trump, deny Trump... " Not even sure if he mentioned Her. Point being, whether he mentioned Her or not, he certainly did Not endorse her - and Hillary knew it. And Team HRC knew it. Why they ever allowed him anywhere Near the campaign is a good question, becuz all he ever did on Her campaign trail was give his own stump speech. And, you just know that had to frost her buns, bunch up her granny panties.

Lol, and everyone spits coffee, knowing damn well that the Clintons are economic and human rights vampires of the Psychopath Class and likely swears never to vote for any such evil, even if Trump is the result.

And they can't stop Bernie from making that point every time he speaks, merely by providing contrast to the corporate Democan'ts, no matter what he has to say to get the message of 'government of, by and for the people - not the anti-public-interest corporations and billionaires' which both corporate wings of the Two-Faced corporate Party Trade-Off so clearly and provably represent/are formed of - through to the corporate-media-restricted American public.

He damns her with fake praise showing what she isn't.

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the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.