If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands.[b] If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them.

That is what they are basically interested in.Of course when there is a chance that the kafirs seek revenge for the crimes that were committed against them,they would try to cover it up by forcing them to convert to Islam just as Aurangzeb,the last important Mughal Emperor did.That is how you destroy evidence.

Last edited by Nosuperstition on Sun May 06, 2018 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

If special status could be granted to many states in India based on backwardness, then it can also be granted to remnant A. P which was deliberately rendered backward due to malicious policy of divide and rule.After division,percapita income of Telangana is Rs 20,000 /-more than that of remnant A.P.

manfred wrote:Well you got one thing right, your precious Qur'an is similar to "the Lord of the rings" in as much as it pure fiction, but it, compare with Tolkien's novels, of such lousy quality, that it really is only fit for the garbage.

The Bible is full of myths and contradictions. It's just a fairy tale for kids and stupid Christians like you, who believe in the story of Santa Claus and three little Christians pigs.

Iffo is a good illustration about leaving Islam... he does not trust any established religion, he is his own man, and he would never return to Islam. I wrote an article here once, some time back, on levels of spirituality, which also discusses Iffo's position, who shows greater understanding than you do.

He is a loser.

You are on level one: Follow rules, get accepted by other Muslims, pretend things you are not to make an impression. Belief is linked to fear.

Who cares about what you think?

Iffo is on level 4b.... having studied and rejected the dogmatic part of religion or at least realised that "teachings" are not the centre of religion, people either explore deeper meanings and meditative or mystic aspects of religion (4a) or choose to reject all established religion (4b)

And you're the lowest one under my soles.

I think we have had enough of this troll - masqurading as a "Muslim". Time to send this guy (SAM) stupid replies to the trash bin.

First, where are those figures come from? Yes, I agree that many of those Americans who join Islam are of Christian back ground due to the fact that the vast majority of Americans are from Christian back ground. I missed the point.Second, those Christians who are converting to Islam are completely and entirely ignorant of BOTH faiths.Thirdly, millions upon millions of Muslims are leaving Islam who mostly convert to Christianity. Most of the different authorities and press are corrupt, they are biased to the enemy ISLAM rather than facts, including Muslims ofcourse, they know how to add but not to subtract. They announce those who convert to Islam all over the place, but hush those who leave Islam.

ronyvo wrote:First, where are those figures come from? Yes, I agree that many of those Americans who join Islam are of Christian back ground due to the fact that the vast majority of Americans are from Christian back ground. I missed the point.Second, those Christians who are converting to Islam are completely and entirely ignorant of BOTH faiths.Thirdly, millions upon millions of Muslims are leaving Islam who mostly convert to Christianity. Most of the different authorities and press are corrupt, they are biased to the enemy ISLAM rather than facts, including Muslims ofcourse, they know how to add but not to subtract. They announce those who convert to Islam all over the place, but hush those who leave Islam.GAs I keep saying from 2001 that Islam is on life support.

Christians of western country who convert to Islam come from nominal Christian background. Often they are alienated from there society. Many are gullible , naive and seekers. in west people are open minded and dont want to be prejudiced. Muslims take full advantage. Ask any Indonesian or Pakistani or Indian Christian whether they will voluntarily become Christian.. They won't unless converted by rape, plunder and force.

I wonder what the sex ratio of these converts is? I.e. what proportion of them are women fancying something different and converting to get it?

‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

Fernando wrote:I wonder what the sex ratio of these converts is? I.e. what proportion of them are women fancying something different and converting to get it?

From observing in Canada it looks like lot more women convert to Islam than men.Many get married to Muslims and convert. Muslims can be pretty charming, appear sincere and obsequious when they want women or want to get laid!!Also Muslim preachers target and groom women for conversions. Women as a group, take any religion, sect, cult , are known for their blind faith to most absurd religion , prophet whether he is Coresh or Christ, Mohammed, Rajnish or Charlie Manson! . Blind faith is their arsenal! Their defence mechanis. They hate any logic, common sense or scientific inquiry. Reasons are many!!Its in DNA.They think their progeny and human race can be saved by faith only. Well things are changing as women pursue other venues of knowledge.

A good part of the westerners are atheists , agnostics or liberals who do not know what they are, and are only culturally christian, so calling them being raised christian is a very vague stance to begin with. it can also be said that people converting or leaving islam in muslim majority countries are mostly raised Muslims.I also agree its more easy to trick woman who know f. all about the pedo and his backward religion, especially when they are dreaming of serious relationships.Here is a Canadian ex Muslim who preached and promoted islam for 15 years and even have his wife converted, abandoning it after growing some brain.

Fernando wrote:I wonder what the sex ratio of these converts is? I.e. what proportion of them are women fancying something different and converting to get it?

From observing in Canada it looks like lot more women convert to Islam than men.Many get married to Muslims and convert. Muslims can be pretty charming, appear sincere and obsequious when they want women or want to get laid!!Also Muslim preachers target and groom women for conversions. Women as a group, take any religion, sect, cult , are known for their blind faith to most absurd religion , prophet whether he is Coresh or Christ, Mohammed, Rajnish or Charlie Manson! . Blind faith is their arsenal! Their defence mechanis. They hate any logic, common sense or scientific inquiry. Reasons are many!!Its in DNA.They think their progeny and human race can be saved by faith only. Well things are changing as women pursue other venues of knowledge.

Oh I see, that is the reason why when one supposed Marathi Brahmin told members of this forum about how he ate beef in Goa, Yohan was not satisfied and asked did your mother ever cook it at home.

If special status could be granted to many states in India based on backwardness, then it can also be granted to remnant A. P which was deliberately rendered backward due to malicious policy of divide and rule.After division,percapita income of Telangana is Rs 20,000 /-more than that of remnant A.P.

In the history channel or the discovery channel, they once showed how Christian women of pagan Rome preferred death over renouncing their faith. They read out the last words written by them before being sent to the gallows. Now from being that literate, literacy was a taboo until Renaissance in Europe. Yohan said that most converts to Christianity in pagan Rome were women. He said that they preferred it as Christian husbands remained loyal to them with regards to marital faithfulness. But now I am to understand that sheer stupidity inherent in women also plays an important role in being obstinate.

If special status could be granted to many states in India based on backwardness, then it can also be granted to remnant A. P which was deliberately rendered backward due to malicious policy of divide and rule.After division,percapita income of Telangana is Rs 20,000 /-more than that of remnant A.P.

Now a famous old Telugu song goes this way.chaduvu raani vaadivani digulu chendaku. Manishi madi lona mamatha leni chaduvulenduku. Don't feel bad about being someone who can't read and write. Of what use are those studies when there is no love in that heart. Perhaps the early Popes who knew about the crude form of theory of evolution propounded by Greek philosophers decided to close the Neo-Platonic schools of thought for exactly the same reason.

If special status could be granted to many states in India based on backwardness, then it can also be granted to remnant A. P which was deliberately rendered backward due to malicious policy of divide and rule.After division,percapita income of Telangana is Rs 20,000 /-more than that of remnant A.P.

I don't know what you are talking about, NS... surely you are aware that in Western Christianity at least Aristotelian and Neo-Platonic philosophy gave rise to the scholastic approach to theology, as in Albert the Great, Dun Scotus and obviously Thomas Aquinas?

manfred wrote:I don't know what you are talking about, NS... surely you are aware that in Western Christianity at least Aristotelian and Neo-Platonic philosophy gave rise to the scholastic approach to theology, as in Albert the Great, Dun Scotus and obviously Thomas Aquinas?

Now Mr. pilgrim did say once that you shouldn't trust all that is going around on the net as a lot of fake news does get circulated over there, however from what I distinctly remember, according to some famous historian of U. K, dark ages of Europe are thus called when the extensive system of pagan Roman education was closed down to a vast majority of the public. Before that pagan Greeks invented the complex machine of Antikythera and in the discovery channel they mentioned about one Greek innovator called Heronius who invented a lot many things by himself.

If special status could be granted to many states in India based on backwardness, then it can also be granted to remnant A. P which was deliberately rendered backward due to malicious policy of divide and rule.After division,percapita income of Telangana is Rs 20,000 /-more than that of remnant A.P.

You seem to hear a lot of strange things and then put them randomly on the forum. Try to at least occasionally discuss the topic in a thread.

The Romans did not have any public school system for all. You needed money for education and mostly it happened through private tutors.

So there was not anything to close down....

What did change with the arrival of Christianity was that education was no long ONLY something you would have access to if you had money. You could join a monastery and you would get an education there, but of course you "paid" in a different way.

No, universal education is something that had to come into effect due to industrialisation which mandated minimum standards of education to the industrial workers. Prior to that the commoners were kept at an arms length from education.Phrase dark ages is a very well accepted one amongst historians.

If special status could be granted to many states in India based on backwardness, then it can also be granted to remnant A. P which was deliberately rendered backward due to malicious policy of divide and rule.After division,percapita income of Telangana is Rs 20,000 /-more than that of remnant A.P.

SAM wrote:The share of Americans who leave Islam is offset by those who become Muslim.

... Christianity as a whole loses more people than it gains from religious switching (conversions in both directions) in the U.S., while the net effect on Islam in America is a wash.

Among those who have converted to Islam, a majority come from a Christian background. In fact, about half of all converts to Islam (53%) identified as Protestant before converting; another 20% were Catholic. And roughly one-in-five (19%) volunteered that they had no religion before converting to Islam, while smaller shares switched from Orthodox Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism or some other religion.

When asked to specify why they became Muslim, converts give a variety of reasons. About a quarter say they preferred the beliefs or teachings of Islam to those of their prior religion, while 21% say they read religious texts or studied Islam before making the decision to switch. Still others said they wanted to belong to a community (10%), that marriage or a relationship was the prime motivator (9%), that they were introduced to the faith by a friend, or that they were following a public leader (9%).

In recent years, the number of American Muslims has been growing steadily, by around 100,000 annually. But the fact that the shares of people who enter and leave Islam are roughly equal suggests that conversions to and from the faith are having little impact on the group’s overall growth.

In Egypt some Copts join Islam very reluctantly. They do this because of the horribble persecution by Muslims, individuals and governmental.

However, the article neglected an important fact, which is the millions upon millions of Muslims convert to Christianity. As we know, when a Christian converts to Islam this would be published widly, BUT, when a Muslim converts to Christianity this would be hushed for obvious sreason 'apostate is punished by death in Islam'.

SAM wrote:The share of Americans who leave Islam is offset by those who become Muslim.

... [i]Christianity as a whole loses more people than it gains from religious switching (conversions in both directions) in the U.S., while the net effect on Islam in America is a wash.[/

In Egypt some Copts join Islam very reluctantly. They do this because of the horribble persecution by Muslims, individuals and governmental.

However, the article neglected an important fact, which is the millions upon millions of Muslims convert to Christianity. As we know, when a Christian converts to Islam this would be published widly, BUT, when a Muslim converts to Christianity this would be hushed for obvious sreason 'apostate is punished by death in Islam'.

Not only modern Copts but almost all non Arabic population of Asia accepted Islam under horrible persecution or threat of death by Arab marauders . Thes news converts whether they were Turks or Persian . Malaysian. Indonesians, or Indians did same thing or some time lot more brutal than their Saracen masters. Centuries of pressure and attrition made population Muslim majority till it became 98 % Muslim.

I agree with you. The showy nature of Islam today, is all about getting screen/air time, not about true faith. More and more Muslims are discovering that Islam is false, and that Muhammad may not have existed.

Fernando wrote:I wonder what the sex ratio of these converts is? I.e. what proportion of them are women fancying something different and converting to get it?

From observing in Canada it looks like lot more women convert to Islam than men.Many get married to Muslims and convert. Muslims can be pretty charming, appear sincere and obsequious when they want women or want to get laid!!Also Muslim preachers target and groom women for conversions. Women as a group, take any religion, sect, cult , are known for their blind faith to most absurd religion , prophet whether he is Coresh or Christ, Mohammed, Rajnish or Charlie Manson! . Blind faith is their arsenal! Their defence mechanis. They hate any logic, common sense or scientific inquiry. Reasons are many!!Its in DNA.They think their progeny and human race can be saved by faith only. Well things are changing as women pursue other venues of knowledge.

While referring to the famous supposedly female Sikh member named Chanakya, when Matriya said that it is strange that she chose that well known Artha Shastra author who said that women have little intellect, I didn't get it. Similarly I did not get it when Muhammad supposedly said that women have low intellect. An acquaintance of mine named Suresh while speaking to his wife on phone also told her that being a woman, she shouldn't have been that intelligent. Now after seeing idesigner1 second them all, I understand that women or atleast most of them are really deficient in intelligence.

If special status could be granted to many states in India based on backwardness, then it can also be granted to remnant A. P which was deliberately rendered backward due to malicious policy of divide and rule.After division,percapita income of Telangana is Rs 20,000 /-more than that of remnant A.P.