??? ?? ??? ???? means that she will never again come before the king. Does that mean she was banished or killed? Midrash is not peshat. Am I a Kroger for having a hard time believing she had pimples and a tail?

I don’t have seforim here, if I recall, megillah only states “ashem lo savo vashti”, she was baninshed. Rashi says “lefikach neherga”, therefore she was killed. Again I’m speaking off my hat, could be I’m wrong. (I am the …)

Remember, after Haman was hanged, Esther asks Achashveirosh to call back the decree. He doesn’t do it. He gives Esther the ring and says that anything that is sealed with the King’s signet ring cannot be recalled (meaning the original decree cannot be recalled – not necessarily the new one). So instead of recalling the decree, he tells her to write as she wishes to the Jews. Esther tells them to defend themselves.

I find it hard to believe that in a country with such rigid laws (i.e. a king’s decree is final even if he later realizes he made a mistake) that such a powerful, harsh king would think twice before executing someone.

Even if it could be undone from a legal point of view, it may not have been politically expedient to do so. This was a decision made amongst some very important ministers in the country. To go back on it would have made him look very weak and foolish — and this was in a time when weak and/or foolish kings very often found themselves dead at the hands of others who would like to rule instead.

“and this was in a time when weak and/or foolish kings very often found themselves dead at the hands of others who would like to rule instead.”

Just to prove your point, Herodetus in his history notes that Xerxes, aka Achashveirosh, was killed by his guards in a coup.

HaLeiVi –

I believe it was a decree, or more accurately, law. Achashveirosh sought council “k’dat ma la’asot im Vashti”. He wanted to know what he could do legally.

Dovid Hamelech –

The text mentions nothing about Achashveirosh killing his advisors.

And before you start talking Midrash, remember, Chaza”l wanted Megillat Esther written in this form. Midrash could have easily been included (and if you are so inclined, you can look at the version of the Book of Esther in the Septuagint, where the author lifted sections of the Midrash Rabbah in order to make the book seem more “religious”).

The text leaves it ambiguous as to whether Achashveirosh killed or banished Vashti. Regardless, the law was that she could not serve as queen and someone else had to be chosen.

Throughout Megillat Esther, the text is poking fun at the concept of “law” in Ancient Persia. For example, drinkng was according to the ‘law’, but what was the law? “Ein o’nes” – no one is forced, i.e., there is no law.

kgh, you are comparing apples to velcros. It says that what the king sent oout cannot be rescinded. A royal decree is where the Achashdarpnim run and announce the new law. A punishment is not a law, it might be a ruling. There is absolutely no reason to say that he didn’t reserve the right to take back someone that he kicked out. After all, he killed someone that he appointed to high office.

The Medrash in Esther Rabba 4:9 and 4:12 says that Vashi as beheaded and her head was placed on a platter.

She must have been pretty young when she was killed. She married Achasheverus as a child and after she was executed Esther was married to Achashverus herslef for quite a while. Can a timeline be made out of the Megilla and Medrashim?

The Seder Hadoros under 3395 says that Vashti was reincarnated in the cow that was sold to a chasid and the cow did not want to plow on shabbos when the chasid whispered in her ear that it is shabbos today. This was a punishment for having Jewish girls work on shabbos.
Achashverus converted to Judaism because of this.

By our sanhedrin we have the same ruling.
Once they passed the psak of meesa ,bais din is not allowed to recind even if edim come with proof. So why is this concept of not recinding in iran so surprising?

The Yalkut Shimoni 1091:2 Achashverus regretted killing Vashti saying where is Vashti. The seven rulers said you killed her. He said, and who gave me the advice? After this, we don’t hear from them anymore.

What is the difference of eidei hackchoshe and eidei zomemim? In eidim zomemim they are destroying the credibility of the eidim whereas in eidei hackchoshe they are not destroying the eidim but their argument.

and that’s why Haman thought it would be a great idea to hang Mordechai (and in the end Haman was hung instead) because Haman wanted it to be that Mordechai was rebelling against the king because didn’t follow the king’s decree, but Haman was the one that was trying to usurp the throne

It says in Kaheles חופר גומץ בו יפול one who digs a pit for the other will fall in it. In the Torah כי בדבר אשר זדו עליהם, in the pot they cooked they were cooked in it. Haman was hanged on the tree he prepared for Mordechai.

Wow are we hearing from a bunch of geniuses here
The גמרא, מגילה יא עמוד ב
Three lines from the bottom
בא שטן וריקד ביניהן הורג את ושתי
Satan came and danced amongst (between) them and killed Vashti
Is that clear enough?
Or are you ready to take on the גמרא as well?

Dy
Unfortunately there are those on this thread that take Medrashim as ”a suggested possibility ” to be accepted or selected based on their own personal feelings on the topic.
Read through the thread
Additionally there is truly a concept called medrashos chalukos .
So I was just showing that In this question it’s pretty open and shut that she was killed. With no wiggle room.
(there is an entire section of this thread discussing proving she was killed based on his not calling her back when he got sober)

Wow are we hearing from a bunch of geniuses here
The גמרא, מגילה יא עמוד ב
Three lines from the bottom
בא שטן וריקד ביניהן הורג את ושתי
Satan came and danced amongst (between) them and killed Vashti
Is that clear enough?
Or are you ready to take on the גמרא as well?

I don’t see this as a contradiction. It was not unusual for women banished to the palace of tears to commit suicide.

She must have been pretty young when she was killed. She married Achasheverus as a child and after she was executed Esther was married to Achashverus herslef for quite a while. Can a timeline be made out of the Megilla and Medrashim?

Benignuman: I once did a back-of the-napkin calculation of the timeline from among the Megila, various Midrashim, Chazals, etc. from the time Vashti was a little child when Belshazzar was killed and Achashverush married her until she met her untimely demise.