My goal is to inform potential law school students and applicants of the ugly realities of attending law school. DO NOT ATTEND UNLESS: (1) YOU GET INTO A TOP 8 LAW SCHOOL ON SCHOLARSHIP; (2) YOU GET A FULL-TUITION SCHOLARSHIP TO ATTEND; (3) YOU HAVE EMPLOYMENT AS AN ATTORNEY SECURED THROUGH A RELATIVE OR CLOSE FRIEND; OR (4) YOU ARE FULLY AWARE BEFOREHAND THAT YOUR HUGE INVESTMENT IN TIME, ENERGY, AND MONEY DOES NOT, IN ANY WAY, GUARANTEE A JOB AS AN ATTORNEY OR IN THE LEGAL INDUSTRY.

Friday, November 25, 2011

Overpriced Public First Tier Rot Pile: The Ohio State University Michael E. Moritz College of Law

Insisting on using “the” to preface the name of your university is first tier douche-bag behavior. Charging an arm and a leg to attend your public sewer is criminal.

Tuition: For in-state law students attending Ohio State University, on a full-time basis, tuition will amount to $26,328 – for the 2011-2012 school year. Non-resident, full-time law students will be charged $41,278 in tuition, for the same academic year.

Total Cost of Attendance: The commode estimates that living expenses will add up to $17,808 – for 2011-2012. With health insurance plus books and supplies adding another $5,426 to the tab, the school estimates that the total COA for Ohio residents will be $48,116 – for the 2011-2012 school year. For non-residents, this figure is $63,066.

As with other dishonest ABA-accredited law schools, Ohio State does not calculate twelve month living expenses. After all, doing so would increase the estimated COA. In fact, the deceptive pigs at Ohio $tate Univer$ity Moritz Commode of Law conveniently forgot to add the comprehensive health insurance figure of $1,546 – when reaching the figures above. (If you prefer, you can presume that the bastards simply do not know how to add.)

Taking insurance and twelve month costs into account, total COA for non-resident law students reaches $70,548!! For Ohio residents, this figure is a mere $55,598 – for the current calendar year. Who says that “higher education” doesn’t pay off?!?!

Ranking: According to the ass-clowns at US “News” & World Report, The Ohio State University Moritz Commode of Law is the 35th most remarkable and phenomenal law school, in the land. It shares this “prize,” with Alabama, Georgia and Wisconsin.

Supposed Employment and Starting Salary Figures: The toilet claims that all 202 graduates – from the Class of 2010 – supplied their employment status to the school. If you add up the columns, 99.01% of this class was employed in some capacity. If this is the case, then why not proudly publish “99 percent of the Class of 2010 was employed”?!?!

The school notes the following: “Salary information was reported by 43.56% of the 2010 graduates.” The toilet continues: “Median salaries for law firms ranged from $51,000 for firms between 2-10 attorneys (24 graduates reporting) to $160,000 for firms with over 500 (14 graduates reporting).”

Under 2010 Employment by Category, the school notes that 84 graduates were in private practice, i.e. 41.9 percent. Of this figure, only 14 reported their income, as lawyers in firms with more than 500 attorneys?!?! This represents 1/6 of those reportedly working in private practice. By the way, these respondents are MOST likely to provide their income info, to the school – as they are proud of their salary.

Average Law Student Indebtedness: How much NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt can you look forward to taking out, as a graduate of this public law school? USN&WR reports the average law student indebtedness - for those members of the Ohio State Law Class of 2010 who incurred debt for law school - as $84,408. Fully 90 percent of this second tier sewer’s 2010 class took on such miserable debt. Remember, this total does not include debt from undergrad.

OHIO STATE LAW GRAD OWES TOO MUCH IN STUDENT LOANS TO SIT FOR THE OHIO BAR

On January 12, 2011, Elie Mystal wrote about the Ohio Bar applicant who failed to pass character & fitness, due to the fact that he owes $170K in student debt:

“What a mindjob. The Ohio bar is blaming this guy because his debts are non-dischargeable? That’s not Griffin’s fault. The Ohio bar is blaming him because he doesn’t have a plan? Please show me the 2007 graduate of Moritz College of Law who had a really solid plan for paying off $170K of debt. Denying Griffin admission, for a situation that is literally affecting thousands of people, is totally arbitrary and capricious.”

“Professor” and Administrator Salaries: Let’s see how well the gluttonous pigs are making out – on the federal student loan teat – in comparison. Alan Charles Michaels made $302,006, as dean of the commode of law - in 2010. The following figures are for 2010:

Conclusion: The Ohio State University Michael E. Moritz College of Law is an overpriced, festering, foul, rank public piece of trash. You simply do not need to incur an additional $85K-$130K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt for a chance to work for legal aid. If you want to help people, then you can volunteer at a soup kitchen. You do not need to personally contribute to the bloated salaries of the pigs - and ruin your financial well-being, in the process.

63 comments:

Wow, that is some turd dropping. It looks inhuman. I remember reading about the Moritz (bad cliche to name a law school after a Jew) law graduate who was denied admission for not having a plan to pay off his $170K student loan debt earlier this year. I shake my head trying to understand why a college grad would take out that kind of money to attend Moritz or The Moritz because as far as the NYC market goes, Moritz isn't even on the map despite it's "first" tier ranking. I don't think kids comprehend what it is like to owe $170K at 8%. How do you plan on paying that kind of debt. Well let's see the following plans and you pick one:

All this for the joy and privilege of attending The Moritz for 3 years. You don't need a J. Sandusky to get fucked in the showers to feel the trauma of those kids. If I am going to drop $170K, I would rather buy some eight balls, some whores and hang out at St. Moritz. I'll pass on the Moritz lulz skool. Oh, and go Buckeyes.

"Imagine an afternoon trip to a Wal-Mart: You pick up socks, a flat-screen television and a microwave meal. After checking out, you stop in the photo studio at the front of the store for a family portrait, and then shift one booth over to a lawyer, who drafts your will or real estate contract."

From Selling Pieces of Law Firms to Investors at http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/29/business/selling-pieces-of-law-firms-to-investors.html

The days of the solo practitioner and the small law firm are numbered. England has allowed companies like Quality Solicitors to counsel clients on personal injury cases, divorces, child custody and corporate entity formation in department stores. Remember that it was English firms that started the trend of outsourcing document review to India. A year later, the ABA passed its infamous ethics opinion 08-451 which decimated job opportunities for graduates of toilet law schools.

If you thought 08-451 was bad, the ABA is now drafting an ethics opinion similar to the one across the pond. But hey, it's not like the ABA ever gave a shit about small law firms and students saddled with over $100K in debt.

I have read various articles from the Economist, Barrons' et als. which discuss the globalization of legal services in few corporations such as Walmart. Look at what happened to the mom & pop coffee shops. They were outgunned and forced to close with the globalization of Starbucks, McDonalds' coffee and Dunkin Donuts. Solos and small firms will be outpriced and outmanned by Walmart legal services. I predict many of these solos will have to work for Walmart legal at $12/hr. Yes, this is such a prestigious profession. At least working for the legal team at Walmart, you will be above the greeter on the organizational hiearchy.

This profession is such a piece of shit setting up shop in Walmart might add to the prestige of the profession. At least then you can do all the following at Walmart: eat at McD's, buy some cheap shit, get your nails and hair done, pick up your prescriptions, buy tires and hunting gear and stop by a shitlaw boutique. Maybe they can set up some sort of combined deal where your hot redneck wife can get a pedicure and you get a will drafted all for $150. Then Walmart throws in some fertilizer or 20 pound bag of dog food for free.

many of us solo small firm guys are already dropping our rates for everything. Its only a matter of time before law firms are closed other then those which do such complicated legal work ie federal, mergers/acquisitions etc who will stay open because the average law graduate would not be able to bs their way through them. You will soon go to Walmart or Kmart for your legal services and have Apoo or Mohammed do your Will while he instant messages his relatives back home about the latest terrorist or woman degradation techniques. Walmart will fund all the Bar associations making a bar complaint for such shitty legal work a waste of time. That being said, its going to take even the dumbest of rednecks to accept that as it is just not right. The non serious Workers Comp and personal injury practice will die off. Those of us that are stuck in the profession will have to adjust to even have a chance to survive but for all my bitching atleast im not some 1L about ready to come back to my shitter school and take some exams that soon you will realize mean nothing for 99% of those who took them.

They might as well rename this school the John Lovitz school of law as pretty soon like John, we will all be "taking a vacation from taking a vacation" just like the graduates of this pie hole.

I stress this as a corcened someone who graduated from law school 20 years ago and managed to make some good money and pay my tiny loans back despite the job market being relatively bad when I graduated from Sesame Street School of Law back in the day. I still have plenty of life left and I must transition but you kids graduating with 100k plus in debt might as well move back to your room from high school and get used to staring at those Zack Morris and Kelly Kapowski posters and hide all the pill bottles because many of you will kill yourself or go postal when you see your 150k law degree is worth the same as the one obtained by Mr. Nirapingpongporn, Walmart Legal Associate, who graduated from Ohio State Law School, New Delhi Campus and comes out owing a handful of rupees and pays his debt off with his first check from Walmart while you cant find work making any more then he makes.

“The numbers were crunched by Economic Modeling Specialists Inc. (also known as EMSI), a consulting company that focuses on employment data and economic analysis. The company’s calculations were based on the number of people who passed the bar exam in each state in 2009, versus an estimate of annual job openings for lawyers in those states. They also looked at data from the Department of Education on law school graduates each year to get another measure of the quantity of new lawyers. Estimates for the number of openings is based on data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics and the Census Bureau.

According to this model, every state but Wisconsin and Nebraska (plus Washington, D.C.) is producing many more lawyers than it needs. (See table after the jump for full data, and additional caveats.)

In fact, across the country, there were twice as many people who passed the bar in 2009 (53,508) as there were openings (26,239). A separate estimate for the number of lawyers produced in 2009 — the number of new law-school graduates, according to the National Center for Education Statistics — also showed a surplus, although it was not quite as large (44,159 new law grads compared with 26,239 openings).”

Economic Modeling Specialists Inc. also lists Ohio as 14th most glutted legal market, in the United States. Congratulations on that feat!

As you can see, US “News” lists the average law student indebtedness - for members of the Capital Law Class of 2010 who incurred such debt - as $103,426. This pile of trash is also located in Columbus, Ohio. This is the average debt figure. You can bet your ass that there were individual JDs who took on much more student debt than this amount. How many of those grads are unable to pass “character and fitness”?!?!

For $ome rea$on, the pigs and cockroaches at the Ohio Bar do not have any problem with these supposed “institutions of higher education” charging such obscene amounts in tuition; pumping out FAR TOO MANY graduates for the available number of attorney and law-related positions; and not teaching their debt-strapped customers how to practice law. That tells you plenty about the “character” and “integrity” of these swine.

I know you get a lot of comments on this site, but I have an idea, and I hope you'll read this comment and consider my idea.

I am a member of the Class of 2011. I cheated death and found a job before graduation, but I could have just as easily ended up without one. My first loan payment is due in a few weeks.

In a few months, the law schools will begin to collect the 9 months after graduation statistics. What if we launched a campaign to deliberately manipulate those statistics? Initially I thought it would be great if we encouraged every 2011'er to report an income of $18,000.00 no matter what.

But an even better plan would be to encourage every graduate to report an income of $160,000.00. I know that sounds counterintuitive to the cause of taking down the law schools, but hear me out.

We do this by launching a website petition where people use monikers and handles to commit to providing this false data. We make this as public as possible, hopefully drawing media attention.

The law schools will then be forced to decide if they really think it's a good idea to use data that has been deliberately and publicly manipulated towards inflation (hence, the 160k). The public will see how that the statistics are exaggerated and can't be trusted. And law schools will be forced to explain why so many of their graduates are pissed enough to engage in this protest. If law schools plow ahead and use the numbers, they are opening themselves up to additional liability.

Hopefully the law schools would be so worried about this that they will respond publicly, or at least to recent grads, asking them not to report false incomes, which will only bring more attention to our cause.

The end goal will be to bring more attention to the law school scam and further distort employment statistics so as to undermine the public's confidence in the law school industry.

^It is the dumbest bulshit I have heard since this Monday. Your dumb ass clearly has a political science background. Where did you get employment? A personal injury sweatshop? The only way the jackass like you can make $160K is to blow guys in a locker room.

I used to post a lot over at "JD Dumberground" - as I now affectionately call it - but fugetabout it. Nando can probably "Guess Who" at this point.

Anywho.. one of the oft-used mantras over there was "Go prestigious. Go public. Or not at all."

I think Nando's profiling of several public schools illustrates that this is, especially in the last 5 or so years, complete bullshit. The debt is now just as life-crippling and outrageous and these public schools don't have the pedigree to place all but the very top 1-5 students (or those with connections) in good jobs, i.e. jobs justifying the tremendous debt level and time commitment borne by the graduates.

I never agreed with the above philosophy anyway. Nor do I agree with the "Go on a Free Scholarship" crowd because of the "section-stacking" games these dumps play.

Unless it's going free to one of the T-14 or a T10 or better, the only part I agree with is: Don't go at all.

What that leaves is "go prestigious" and that means go if your parents are wealthy, connected, and can pay for it all. In other words, law school is a game best played by the Rich Kids. And Lemmings, if you don't believe me, I've seen this proven first-hand. When you graduate, check who gets what jobs. You'll find that half the Law Review comes from connections/privilege and likely had an edge going in or see someone with crap/mediocre grades somehow get a great first job, etc. None of the above is coincidence and the two do relate. Connections matter.

Of course, by then it will be far too late for you, but who cares? You decided to ignore all warnings and go anyway a long time ago..

Nando himself went on a full scholly and doesn't work in the legal field. That's how shitty it is..

Today, even the T10 kids are struggling. What THAT means is that connections and family wealth matter even moreso.

But, in reality, this was always the real game. 99.999% of law school lemmings never figure it out.

Argosy University Apply to Argosy UNiversity Today - Get Info on Education Programs.www.argosy.edu

LLM in Financial ServicesNew York Law School Apply for fall 2009 or spring 2010.www.nyls.edu

Thank you for reading. If you enjoy this blog, please take a moment and support it by clicking on one of the many ads on the page. I agree, some are kind of corny, but they all help me bring in a little extra money (which is not much, but it helps me buy textbooks and support myself and wife through law school)."

I discredited that cockroach months ago. Now, the pathetic piece of trash has further proven to be a pile of waste.

I imagine that the ads change, each time someone enters the page. He has been running that blog since June 2011, and has attracted fewer than 1,600 visitors. In comparison, Third Tier Reality typically receives that many visits - not page views - in a two-day span. I do not "monetize" my blog, because I know that law schools would advertise on this page. Plus, as far as I am concerned, I am not going to help The World Traveling Law Student Douche-bag receive an extra dime.

Urban Meyer will be Ohio State's next football coach. They're gonna give this guy a 7 year, $40 million contract. Yep, he is the best in college football. But almost $6 million per year? That's so called higher education in action, boys and girls.

Law school tuition has been skyrocketing as have all forms of tuition. At the same time the job market for new lawyers has tanked. These were not part of some intentional plot. There was no scam. Circumstances made things difficult for you, but that's not a scam.

You then claim that some magazine article claiming high employment rates, or some propaganda by law schools of the caliber of "The Thomas Cooley School of Law" qualifies as scamming. Sorry, when your whole future is at stake you should do due diligence. When the US News and World Report claims 99 percent employment, you should find out what that means. At the very least, once you got to law school you would have rapidly figured out the true situation. If you continue all the way until your degree, then you made an informed decision.

I have a feeling many of you knew the odds way more than you are willing to admit, but thought you would be able to beat the odds. Then when you end out in the middle of the pack at your average law school, you cry foul and claim you had no idea. Really?

By the way, the anti-Semitic comments in this thread are really pathetic. Just because you struck out doesn't mean you have to hate people who didn't.

^Okay, stupid shit. The skools lie to students and make up a bunch of bullshit numbers. But a couple of antiSemitic comments and you get your pink panties in a bunch. Get real. Psst. It's okay if not everyone loves Jews.

I went to Ohio State Law several years ago. I went to a big firm and made 160k start. i'm almost making partner now and will be making about 350k. Great school! Used to be higher ranked (25) a long time ago. Not sure what happened.

On October 17, 2011, Martha Neil wrote a piece for the ABA Journal entitled “Ex-President of Ohio State Bar Is Cooperating with Feds in Tax Fraud Case.” Here is a juicy excerpt:

“A senior partner of Thompson Hine who formerly served as president of the Ohio State Bar Association is cooperating with federal prosecutors after being charged with tax fraud (PDF).

Leslie W. "Les" Jacobs, 66, acknowledged in an interview that he had made fraudulent tax filings prior to 2008 and called his current situation "a terrible embarrassment and regrettable," the Plain Dealer reports.

He is accused of filing four tax returns between 2004 and 2007 that fraudulently overstated his business deductions by between $25,000 and $94,000 annually. That allegedly resulted in Jacobs' underreporting his income, which should have ranged from $633,000 to $780,000, by a total of $250,000, and underpaying his taxes by about $75,000, according to prosecutors.

Newsnet5, a local ABC affiliate, lists the amounts for each year, which are also provided in the charging document.”

Yet, the Ohio State Bar refused to allow a bar applicant to sit for its exam. What a bunch of filthy pigs. From Mystal’s piece on the Ohio State grad, who is apparently unfit to practice - because of his debt:

“What the hell kind of legal education system are we running where we charge people more than they can afford to get a legal education, and then prevent them from being lawyers because they can’t pay off their debts?

Because it’s not like Hassan Jonathan Griffin was in a particularly unique situation when he went before the Ohio bar. A year and a half ago, we wrote about a man who was dinged on his character and fitness review because he was $400,000 in debt. That’s an extraordinary case. Hassan Jonathan Griffin owes around $170,000. He has a part-time job as a public defender. He used to be a stockbroker. He’s got as much a chance of figuring out a way to pay off his loans as most people from the Lost Generation.

If Griffin can’t pass C&F, Ohio might as well say that half of the recent graduates in the state don’t have the “character and fitness” to be a lawyer…”

Then again, he is not a rich guy named Leslie Jacobs. Nor does he have a law degree from Harvard. See the difference between these two men? It usually comes down to money, when you are talking about “the law.”

Ohio State can lead to a lucrative career if you finish in the top 5 or 10 percent. Any lower than that and you're condemned to shitlaw, usually at some office out in the sticks. Typical salary is about 35K.

Take a look at Leslie, and his bushy mustache. With that massive double chin, he should sport a full beard.

http://www.thompsonhine.com/lawyer/LeslieJacobs/

"Professional ExperienceLes is the senior partner in the Competition, Antitrust & White-Collar Crime practice group. He represents the firm on the International Practice Committee of the U.S. Law Firm Group of which he was also chairman. Les focuses his practice on antitrust investigations and related civil and criminal litigation; trade secrets and unfair competition; white collar crime; business torts and commercial litigation; international transactions and joint ventures; intellectual property licensing and litigation; mergers and acquisitions; internal investigations; and corporate governance matters."

Leslie certainly is familiar with white collar crime. Perhaps, he figured that he could beat the rap, if he was ever discovered. Oh well. At least, he is "ethical" and "fit" enough to be a licensed attorney - as well as the former head of the Ohio Bar.

@1:25 pm,

Re-read the main entry, and take a look at what happened to your alma mater:

"The school notes the following: “Salary information was reported by 43.56% of the 2010 graduates.” The toilet continues: “Median salaries for law firms ranged from $51,000 for firms between 2-10 attorneys (24 graduates reporting) to $160,000 for firms with over 500 (14 graduates reporting).”

Under 2010 Employment by Category, the school notes that 84 graduates were in private practice, i.e. 41.9 percent. Of this figure, only 14 reported their income, as lawyers in firms with more than 500 attorneys?!?! This represents 1/6 of those reportedly working in private practice."

The fact is that few graduates of “The” Ohio State University Michael E. Moritz Commode of Law will land Biglaw positions, i.e. 14 out of 202 graduates represents a paltry 6.93 percent of the Class of 2010. When did you graduate from this public cesspool?!

To the sensitive commenter who posted at 10:50 am,

Those comments are pretty mild, especially in comparison to those posted in other forums such as JDU or ATL. This certainly is not Stormfront material, you politically correct weasel/ass-sniffer. By the way, I personally know several Jewish lawyers who are making peanuts - as legal practitioners. And many of those attorneys graduated from law school more than 20 years ago, when the job market was better.

JD Painter never passed the bar exam and gave up trying over a decade ago. His situation is nothing like that of folks who passed the bar and find themselves unable to find work in the market for legal jobs. There could be a SHORTAGE of jobs for attorneys and JD Painter would still not be eligible since he never became an attorney. He's been playing the same broken record on his and other blogs for months and months. Enough already.

People like you helped ruined this nation with all that PC garbage. God forbid the words "Jew" and "oven" are uttered in the same sentence in an innocent manner such as "The Jew at Katz's Delicatessen works the oven making bialis." People like you would classify that sentence as a hate crime. Oh, and if a football player wears the number 88, you probably consider that as anti-semetic as well because the Aryan Nation considers that code for "Heil Hitler." Well fuck you. I am part Native American. You want to talk about Holocaust? Let's talk about my race. We are practically non-existent. We were run out of our lands and slaughtered to near extinction. Yeah you probably think well you got your reservations and casinos. Well you know what? You don't hear Native American Indians too often cry about their plight do you? The Jews on the other hand hyperbolize the Holocaust, often exaggerating the amount of Jews that died. The number was closer to one million than six. Yet the Jews got all that Swiss gold as reparations. All the Jews do is complain about the Holocaust, in fact some who were born after WWII claim they carry their persecuted ancestor's suffering in their DNA. Give me a fucking break. It's no secret the bible referenced the Jews as the meek when the Book of Pslams stated that "The meek shall inherit the earth." The Jews own Hollywood, heck they have Lloyd Blankfein at Goldman Sachs performing "God's work" in bankrupting Europe and the United States with the bullshit derivatives market. So pardon me if the word "Jew" offends you, you sissy motherfucker. Go suck Moritz's uncircumcized penis you dickhead.

@JD PainterguyI keep on writing it, and you keep on demurring...Leave. The. Country.

You have no spouse, no child. You could have one if you wanted, if you would only pick up and leave. And it doesn't have to be Australia! You could go to Canada, live in Montreal.

It's not the slick, silky, lawyer-monied life you expected, but it has to be better than the artless fuckjob you are experiencing here.

Are you waiting for an amnesty? The way America works, it won't happen for twenty years. Leave now, before the Eurozone implodes or Sallie Mae is caught cooking the books and the the fallout causes another financial implosion.

This is 10:50 again. The Jewish thing was just an afterthought. I am not Jewish (but many of my friends are). It just seemed sort of pathetic that people would resort to such comments. Not really a big deal, it wasn't even my main point.

To 7:58 PM: That seriously was just an afterthought. Sorry to hear about your issues with Jews. Maybe if you weren't a total failure your opinions would differ. I guess it is painful to have lost all your money betting you'd end out as a competent lawyer at the Jewish Law School Casino. Got to admit, it's a much more profitable casino than any on a reservation ;)

^Well I am a Jew and I hate Jews myself. I do not see any difference between Muslims and Jews. Everyone hates Muslims and Arabs in particular and would like them all to be dead, but it is not coll to despise aloud Jews. Again, I see no difference between these two ethnic groups, and I loath both of them. Muslims are dumb, dirty, sleazy, untrustworthy, vindictive, and arrogant and Jews are smart, dirty, sleazy, untrustworthy, vindictive, and arrogant. Jews got a card blanch with the Holocaust and now will be milking it forever. As far as I am concerned, it is people of the USSR who experienced a real Holocaust. They lost THIRTY MILLION LIVES in that war.

What your lose,(from extensive use by others), diarrhea prone, and dumb ass has to say about this?

^We just acknowledge the simple fact that those who run the legal "profession" and supporters and apologists like you are SHIT. Wait, I fertilize my roses with shit. Shit is very useful. You and the likes are not.

I still think you people at one time wanted to be the "shitheads" you now hate so much. Don't you think it's hypocritical to embark upon a career where your goal would be to make "shitloads" of money for your own personal gain which you probably don't deserve, then when you don't succeed turn around and claim you were duped, you were scammed, and that the people who did succeed are all "shitty" people. I guarantee if you had succeeded in getting one of those 160K jobs right out of law school, you'd be "shitting" on people left and right to get even more money.

Face it: You bet your future on a high-risk endeavor that didn't work, and that you knew in advance might not work. Ranting and raving incoherently about Jews and feces isn't going to change anything. Cut your losses and try to make something of your future.

Law school is a complete waste even if the cocksucker above thinks it's a great investment. Got something against people freely informing others about this shit-ass profession? No one here's making a buck by telling the truth. You can't say the same of the greedy fuckin' professors and law schools.

We are all well aware that we took on a calculated risk, and that it didn’t pay off, bitch. Thanks for the news flash, Captain Obvious. The debt-strapped students and graduates are the ones who take on the entire risk, cretin. In constrast, the schools continue to lie, without facing any consequences. The fact remains that “Buyer beware” is a pathetic defense.

Months ago, I talked briefly to Paul Campos, author of the blog Inside the Law School Scam, about this tepid “argument.” His response was this: “Even if you say “Buyer beware,” you don’t get to lie about the employment numbers." Perhaps, you should let that settle in your little mind - for a minute.

For instance, imagine if your real estate agent lied to you about material info on a home you want to buy, i.e. “No one has lived in this house, in the last two years” - when in fact, a series of tenants has been in the home over that time. Would you be upset if the agent omitted relevant info, such as failing to disclose that the basement suffered fire damage ten years ago? After all, the homebuyers don’t need to know that, right, Ass-Clown?!?! Plus, if they were made aware of this situation, it might cause potential purchasers to walk away.

Thanks for pointing out all the times I've checked for responses here. I am kind of free today so it's good to have a way to waste time as entertaining as this. Besides, it's been raining the last couple of days here, not good to be up and about.

Lie about employment numbers? I think they just say things like that 99 percent of law grads have jobs 9 months after graduation. Based solely on the fact that nowhere near 99 percent of law grads pass the bar, you might guess this includes a lot more than those 160K law firm jobs you were hoping to sell your soul for. So if your goal was to be employed and you end out unemployed, yes you have a point. But if you just don't bother enough to see what kind of jobs you'll get, and when you finally do just continue as before all the way to graduation, then I'd say you have a lot of responsibility here.

And I'm convinced that a lot of people like you were well aware all along that at places like Drake most law grads do *not* get high-paying jobs after graduation, but thought you'd somehow be special and different. Not that it's wrong to aim high. But when you don't win the gold, you shouldn't play dumb and say you wuz robbed, you had no idea and then proceed to scour the internet looking for pictures of bowel movements to include with your blog rants.

"Jews got a card blanch with the Holocaust and now will be milking it forever. As far as I am concerned, it is people of the USSR who experienced a real Holocaust. They lost THIRTY MILLION LIVES in that war.

What your lose,(from extensive use by others), diarrhea prone, and dumb ass has to say about this?"

Well, with your acute wit and sharp command of the English language, it's a real wonder you (presumably) didn't get a legal job after law school. For future reference, it's "carte blanche," moron.

^Fuckwit, what took you so long to come up with your witty reply? Never presume anything in life, fuckturd. When victims of abortion like yourself have nothing of substance to say, they are always pointing out spelling mistakes and typos. Now, cocksucker, since you have an IQ that is well below room temperature, I repeat again - FUCK OFF.

Victim of abortion? That doesn't even make sense, friend. Here is something of more substance: I find your blind bigotry and gross misuse of basic English to be both appalling and pathetic. If I am wrong in assuming that you do not have a job in the legal field, then I pity your clients. If I am right, it would come as no surprise. You are doing the "scamblog movement" no favors by posting your "thoughts" on this blog.

I am not your friend, jerkoff. Listen you, Jew superhero and Internet warrior, get the fuck out of this forum and blaze elsewhere because only two things will happen to you here: (1) you will get assraped; and (2) you will enrich your vocabulary by words that have not been part of curriculum in the private school you went to). Did you notice that I ended the sentence with a preposition, fuckface?

Ass raped in the comments section of a blog??? That sounds literally impossible. Personally, I don't much mind ending sentences with prepositions, but you actually ended that sentence with a closed parenthesis!

^I am not surprised. I know that you would rather hide behind someone's back than fight. Well, I do not want to be confused next time. Therefore, from now on, I will call you Pile and your buddy will go by Stinky. So, what else do you have to say to us, Pile?

Pile, from now on you and your ethnically challenged buddy Stinky must sign all your posts. You guys must have some integrity left in you, am I right? Now, cocksuckers, get back to studying for your LSAT.

I believe I would be "Pile". Not that I have any obligation to say which one I am. And I won't in the future. Of course if I am Jewish as you think I am, I would pretend to be Pile when I'm really Stinky, just because deceiving people like you is what we do.

You really should have your scat obsession checked out incidentally. With the help of meds and therapy, you might actually begin to live a normal life someday. Admittedly, the 200,000 dollars in debt you recklessly accrued might drag you down a little. Maybe once you're normal again, you can emigrate to some impoverished third-world country to escape your debt. And make America a better place in the process.

I received a full-tuition scholarship, to attend Third Tier Drake. My wife worked full-time, while I worked during the summers. Armed with a Master’s degree, she was unable to make more than $32K per year. So much for “higher education,” I guess. We continued to live frugally, during those three years. However, I still ended up incurring $37K in loans, for living expenses.

Several former classmates took out $125K in additional student loan debt, for their TTT law degree. Many of those people would have been thrilled to land legal jobs. Very few expected to make Biglaw, coming out of that school. Fast forward three years, and you would have witnessed graduating students - in the top five percent of the class - with no jobs lined up! Keep in mind that the career services office work to find employment for the top students.

Also, tone down the racial commentary, guys. Sure, some or perhaps many Jewish people are selfish and arrogant. But you can say the same about pretty much any racial or ethnic group. In summer 2008, I was on a flight from New York to Chicago, and a rabbi damn nearly ran over several women - so that the bastard could get off the plane first. What an embarrassment. Furthermore, the guy was oblivious to the fact that everyone thought that he was a pig. I’m sure the cockroach never gave his actions a second thought. However, it would be a logical fallacy to judge an entire group, based on the foul actions of one person - at one moment in time.

@10:01 pm,

Don’t confuse me with other posters. I am glad to stand by my comments. If you feel that I have a “scat obsession,” keep in mind that I have simply provided a visual association between “third tier toilet” and the schools. The fact is that the schools entice applicants and prospective law students - with lofty employment “placement” figures. The pigs also publish inflated starting salary statistics, on their web sites. These numbers of often located in the tab labeled Info for Prospective Students.

Once enrolled, the students hear that a law degree is highly sought after and “versatile.” (Also, the schools do not prepare their students to practice law.) The fact that several JDs end up selling insurance premiums, teaching grade school or serving lattes DOES NOT make a degree versatile. Those grads are simply taking any jobs that they can find - in spite of their law degree.

When the students cannot find employment, the law school swine then place the blame squarely on the shoulders of the debt-strapped students. Suddenly, it is YOUR fault that you can’t land a job. The rats and dung beetles then toss out further charges, i.e. “You should have worked harder. You should network with local attorneys. Maybe, you should’ve taken more bar prep courses. Don’t expect a law degree to lead to a big salary.”

In sum, the schools flush the financial future of their students and graduates down the commode. I will continue to pummel the law school scum, for as long as needed. If YOU have a problem with that, then you should not visit this site any longer, 10:01 pm. You should develop a backbone, and direct some of your ire towards the lying “professors” and filth-covered law schools.

The important things first - I am scheduling both of you for re-attachment, my ethnically challenged chimps, and to add insult to injury, for the next Saturday.

Do not sweat it out dickheads. There is no confusion. No matter how you sign your posts, you both belong to the same Stinky Pile of law school apologists. That is because you belong to the privileged class. You belong to it not by your mental abilities, talents, or work ethics, but because mommy and daddy paid for private school, university, and now are ready to finance law school. Both of you are too dumb to hack it out even in the military, never mind law. You make Beavis and Butthead look like rocket scientists.

You support the scam because you need a law degree and admittance in to this stinky “profession” as a pre-requisite for employment your families are going to arrange for you. Wankers like you saturate and contaminates the system, but this always was and will be the case in any society.

Congratulations on your passage of the bar, Stinky. On my way home I am going to pass four of them. I will not be admitted to any of them, though. Now ladies, if you excuse me, I have to take care of my clients about whom Stinky worries so much. Do not forget to bring fresh underwear next Saturday, chimps.

Nando, interesting story about the rabbi. I have also seen this rabbi in action. In fact, on every domestic flight from NYC to anywhere on the east coast, there is usually a rabbi who is arrogantly offensive to everyone else on the plane. What are the chances this is the same rabbi you encountered? Or maybe the stereotype is somewhat accurate?

I think most people who go to law school did it because they wanted a better than lower middle-class lifestyle and were sold the idea that more "education" was the way to achieve a middle to upper-middle class lifestyle.

Yeah, getting $160k starting may have been the goal for a small percentage of those entering, but for me, anything over $60k starting was the goal. I couldn't get anywhere near that after graduating - nor was I in the bottom or middle of my law school class.

Education today is nothing more than a legal scam, like casinos and racetracks, etc. It's simply a conduit to get government loan money into the hands of schools, faculty, and staff. The goal is not to provide the student with a future of good living. It's to presently enrich the above at the students' expense, future consequences be damned.

Not related to Ohio State, or the fascinating conversation Stinky, Pile et al were having above, but I just got a call from my TT school (Chicago-Kent) asking if I would like to make a donation of $100 to some fund or other of theirs. I said no. Then the caller let me know that Kent only has about 10% of students give donations, while most schools on par with Kent have about 20-25% give donations. So to help juice Kent's donation rate, they wanted to know if I would like to give $25.

I have just about 100k in Kent related debt to pay off. I am squeezed financially because of law school debt. I am enough of a big boy to realize that I made my decision to go to law school and to take on debt to do so. Still, imagine my delight at someone suggesting that I give $25 so I can help Kent improve their donation stats.

The audacity of the law school pigs never fails to amaze me. Its not enough that they pull their employment stats and salary figures from somewhere around their pyloric valves. Now they want me to give them money I don't have so that they can cook their student giving rate. These law school scumbags are worse than street criminals. At least armed robbers have the guts to stick a gun in your face and take your money from you.

So, if someone from Kent has occasion to read this, no you cannot have $100. You cannot have $25 dollars. I hope you fuckers go bankrupt and that piece of shit school goes under someday. Next time I have a spare $100 or $25, I will give it to a pissbum so he can enjoy a couple drunken days. Maybe I will go get a couple of lap dances. At least the dancer will pretend to like me for the length of a song or two. You bottom feeders will never see any of my money, though.

I have been reading your blogs for quite some time. I must admit that you speak the truth and offer quality advice, a warning (if you will), to future law students. I am thinking of law school (I have a job lined up with my uncle), but even then...I am taking a hard look at this. All of this shit is a scam brought to you in part by the ABA. This has to end and your message needs to spread.

Just a counterbalancing view. I graduated from OSU law 15 years ago, pre-Moritz. I went there because I could go in-state, although I was accepted at about half the top 10. I could get a whole law degree for what I'd have paid for one year at a top 10 school. The rest of my education is 100% blue chip Ivy-League-Public Ivy-Oxbridge. OSU was the best educational experience I had. I had first rate professors who knew their stuff and cared about the students. The top quarter of the class would have been top quarter anywhere. I graduated in the top 10 of my class (working like a demon), got a federal appellate clerkship--as did at least six other people from my class who I can recall by name --then a job at a BigLaw firm for $160K + bonus. I didn't care for BigLaw, most people do not, but the point is, I did this with an OSU degree that I actually enjoyed getting. Now the economy is significantly worse and prices are higher; I'd feel differently, perhaps, if I were settled with a godawful debt instead of one that I could actually pay off from savings if I wanted to, although my loan is small enough the interest rate low enough that it makes no sense to do so. I'm facing difficulties in the job market now. Part of it is the times and part of it is my age -- law was a second career for me, and (gasp) there is age discrimination. I'm pretty sure I would not be any better off if I were otherwise the same but had a top 10 pedigree and three times the debt I have. I'm not positive that law school makes economic sense for anyone these days, but I don't find an OSU degreee to be a particular impediment. It does offer as good a legal education as you can get at reasonable _instate_ price, if not the prestige I think it deserves. Out of state, I'd say, you don't get a scholarship to OSU, go to a top ten school if you can and you insist on going to law school.

I graduated from OSU Moritz College of Law. I was in the top 30% of my class, and I paid for all 3 years mostly via low-interest government student loans. IT WAS THE STUPIDEST DECISION I'VE EVER MADE (even though for undergrad I went to a top-25 private school). I NEVER wanted to go into biglaw and never did. I got a job right out of law school, making about $31k a year, and am still in that job. Things could be better.

I live in my car but my needs are few. I could be bitter but I chhoose to be happy. So can you. There's more to life than money.

Objective

This blog is maintained by a graduate of a third tier law school. My goal is to educate prospective law students about the perils of obtaining a legal education. There are many pitfalls - the debt load, the oversupply of lawyers, the fact that there are not enough legal jobs to satisfy nearly 45,000 annual law graduates, and the reality that the majority of law school graduates will end up with low-paying jobs upon completion of their "legal studies."