Irving v. Lipstadt

Transcripts

The way he put it in his acronym I assumed it was 1imagination, this is a figment of the witness's 2imagination and need to be recognised as such, in the 3transcript in my view. 4A.
[Dr Hajo Funke]
-- it is the Gesinnungsgemeinschaft. We talked about that 5and we know what the body of it -- 6MR JUSTICE GRAY: Yes, we know about that. 7MR IRVING: Paragraph 5.1.4, back to our friend Mr Althans. 8A.
[Dr Hajo Funke]
-- 5.1.4, yes. 9Q.
[Mr Irving]
You rightly say that in my diary I refer to him as being a 10bit of a Nazi, that is at first blush, having just first 11met him, right? 12A.
[Dr Hajo Funke]
Yes. So at least one of the first meetings right, a bit 13of Nazi but helpful. 14Q.
[Mr Irving]
A bit of Nazi but helpful. I do not want to ride too much 15on that paragraph. Would you imply that if you read that 16I regard being a bit of a Nazi as being a negative factor 17rather than a positive factor? 18A.
[Dr Hajo Funke]
Here you write as if it is a bit of a negative factor. 19Q.
[Mr Irving]
In my private diary? 20A.
[Dr Hajo Funke]
But on the same token, in the same sentence you say: He is 21though helpful. 22Q.
[Mr Irving]
Yes. You are weighing one then against other the other 23rather like Schroder, Hitler's private secretary, she was 24probably a bit of a Nazi , but she was very helpful, 25too ---- 26A.
[Dr Hajo Funke]
You say a bit later again something like that, "in

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1November '89 he was still a bit of a Nazi. He is a very 2useful young man, 23 but looks older and tougher". 3Q.
[Mr Irving]
Yes. 4A.
[Dr Hajo Funke]
Or you refer to him in November driving to Strasbourg with 5Althans and his skinhead friend to attend Christopher's 6meeting in Hagenau. 7Q.
[Mr Irving]
If I say I am driving to Strasbourg with somebody's 8skinhead friend does that imply that I am raising my 9eyebrows slightly or that I am jolly happy that this guy 10is a skinhead? 11A.
[Dr Hajo Funke]
You met them. You shared their car. You went to Hagenau, 12to very hardcore revisionist, anti-Jewish meeting in 13Hagenau with this Zundel Juden pack statements. You were 14then -- you got a dinner. You were invited by this "bit 15of a Nazi but helpful Althans" to a dinner before the 16Wahrheit macht frei Congress with Philip Deckert -- 17Q.
[Mr Irving]
Can we take this in sequence, please. 18A.
[Dr Hajo Funke]
-- of course, again -- 19Q.
[Mr Irving]
This was the skinhead, so he was there, he is still 20around? 21A.
[Dr Hajo Funke]
Yes. 22Q.
[Mr Irving]
Can you say from your knowledge of my private diaries that 23my original impression of Althans, this man who has been 24to Israel, my impression was very favourable -- 25A.
[Dr Hajo Funke]
You did not say that he has connections at that time in 26your diary. I read it yesterday night. You said it at the

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1end, in '97 or so, so this is why it came to surprise to 2me. I never have known about that, because he was from 14 3years old and on with Remer, you know, this very -- even 4you want -- did not want to be aligned with him, person. 5So it is a total surprise. I know this organization very 6good, and to be very personal I like this organization. 7Q.
[Mr Irving]
-- the actual zunnerzeit? 8A.
[Dr Hajo Funke]
Yes, right. 9Q.
[Mr Irving]
Have you not seen the correspondence back in early 1990 or 10late 1989 where I received a letter from somebody who told 11me about Althans's visit to Israel? 12A.
[Dr Hajo Funke]
The visit seems to my recollection, but not to 13zunnerseiten, because that I would have -- 14Q.
[Mr Irving]
Registered? 15A.
[Dr Hajo Funke]
Registered, because I know this organization. It is a 16Berlin based organization and that is why I know it. 17Q.
[Mr Irving]
-- just the general overview of my diaries over the three 18years of this unfortunate association with Mr Althans, my 19initial impression of him were favourable because he was 20young and full of initiative? 21A.
[Dr Hajo Funke]
Right. 22Q.
[Mr Irving]
But I rapidly became disillusioned with him; is that 23right? 24A.
[Dr Hajo Funke]
Rapidly -- but you know in early 1990s, in 1991 it 25starts -- and even in '90 you were a bit disgusted by his 26hotheadedness, as you would put it.

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1Q.
[Mr Irving]
There were various reasons, but you agree finally my 2impressions of him were highly unfavourable and I warned 3everyone against him? 4MR JUSTICE GRAY: At what time are you suggesting that 5happened, Mr Irving? 6MR IRVING: Over a period of three years, two years probably 7because by 1993 I was out. I had had no dealings with him 8for long time by then. 9MR JUSTICE GRAY: So your disillusionment started when? 10MR IRVING: I am just about to put to this witness a number of 11diary entries on Althans which may help to flesh that out, 12very brief entries and I have to put them to you in the 13form of putting them to you and I will show them to if you 14wish and you may well have them in front of you. On 15September 30th 1989, two lines, "Althans phoned the hotel" 16that is in Berlin "he said he would phone again" -- 17A.
[Dr Hajo Funke]
'89 you say? 18Q.
[Mr Irving]
-- yes. I stayed in for this, but he did not call back 19poor manners, poor manners? 20MR JUSTICE GRAY: Well, that is not your best point, Mr Irving. 21MR IRVING: November 6th. 22MR JUSTICE GRAY: Move on to the next one. 23MR IRVING: November 6th 1989, I learn that he spent ten days 24in jail for a technical offence involving the president 25von Weisecker (?); do you have that entry? 26A.
[Dr Hajo Funke]
Yes.

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1Q.
[Mr Irving]
Then on November 18th 1989, I note he makes a very good 2impression, be is businesslike and ambitious, keen and 3organized -- 4A.
[Dr Hajo Funke]
Right. 5Q.
[Mr Irving]
-- he has learned a lot already. He appears to be coming 6up to speed. 7A.
[Dr Hajo Funke]
I mean he even spoke instead of you, taking your notice in 8a given moment. So it was quite close, although his 9manner, as you would put it, are lacking some of the 10Prussian, you know, style of organizations. 11Q.
[Mr Irving]
February 5th 1990, I am sorry, February 3rd 1990, I 12express annoyance that Althans has made no attempt to 13contact me in two and a half months, and I add that was 14very unprofessional? 15A.
[Dr Hajo Funke]
No, it went like it. You see it. 16Q.
[Mr Irving]
Well, I think this is important, because his Lordship is 17interested in the closeness of the contact. If I note on 18February 3rd 1990, I expressed annoyance that Althans and 19made no attempt to contact me in two and a half months, 20that is very unprofessional. He is supposed to be setting 21up things in Dresden and so on? 22A.
[Dr Hajo Funke]
But, again, he made this furious event in Dresden at the 2313th February '90, and. 24Q.
[Mr Irving]
--- did he -- 25A.
[Dr Hajo Funke]
You describe it. So I would just, if I may, I would just 26say it is a back and forth. It is in waves, right, but