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Among others you haven't replied to, answer this I am still waiting for you do:

"I am still looking for "obedience" from you you say is a "fruit of the spirit". But, keep posting. Keep testifying to persuade to the 'falseness' in your spirit. Perhaps there is yet more from you that might catch someone off guard. They are the one's you are after, right?

"What evidence might you require to convince yourself of anyone who declares they have already surrendered their life to God and that for them, you are preaching to the choir and need to move on to another subject? Go for it."

Surrendering your life to God is not a one time action. It's continual and daily. You say that there are those who have fulfilled this yet nobody has come forward in agreement with this mandatory lifestyle or the correct definition , not even you . So if your trying to sneak in the back door claiming you now agree we must continually surrender our lives to Christ daily , that would be a new and great revelation . Are you now saying you agree with the Vines definition of pisteuo and agree pisteuo is consistent with what saving Faith or faithing in God is ?

Surrendering your life to God is not a one time action. It's continual and daily. You say that there are those who have fulfilled this yet nobody has come forward in agreement with this mandatory lifestyle or the correct definition , not even you . So if your trying to sneak in the back door claiming you now agree we must continually surrender our lives to Christ daily , that would be a new and great revelation . Are you now saying you agree with the Vines definition of pisteuo and agree pisteuo is consistent with what saving Faith or faithing in God is ?

You offer nothing new or noteworthy. Surrending one's life, abandoning it to God, abiding in Christ, has been taught for years where disciples of Jesus Christ have profited greatly by their love to Him. [Dr. whats his name] sought only to make it his private teaching you have bought into believing it to be a method instaed of a lifestyle. Too bad you didn't get your moneys worth. I would ask for a refund from his unlearned wife.

"That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15 (KJV)

You offer nothing new or noteworthy. Surrending one's life, abandoning it to God, abiding in Christ, has been taught for years where disciples of Jesus Christ have profited greatly by their love to Him. [Dr. whats his name] sought only to make it his private teaching you have bought into believing it to be a method instaed of a lifestyle. Too bad you didn't get your moneys worth. I would ask for a refund from his unlearned wife.

Your just going in circles with a different personal attacks Ken , i'm surprised your doing that. I thought you were different than the others here . turned out i was wrong.

So this is what will happen . When you and your household stands before God , you will know the truth . You will grudgingly try to tell God you never knew that , but God will say i specifically sent you someone to warn you . I know your 79 , but it's not to late to start NT saving faith (pisteuo) . But one day soon , it's going to be one day to late .

And FYI , What i'm sharing with you i have experienced , not learned from anyone . And the unlearned wife you disrespected , she speaks 22 different languages fluently , and has just received her Dr's degree in theology . I'm not sharing any of her teachings with you either . Gods Word needs to be yours first .

President has portrayed the influx of immigrant Islamic terrorists in Europe and America as the greatest threat to the safety of the public.

The probability of the average American being killed by a refugee terrorist 1:46,198,873
which means they are -
************************************************** *******************************
• 6 times more likely to die from a shark attack (one of the rarest forms of death on Earth)

• 29 times more likely to die from a regional asteroid strike

• 260 times more likely to be struck and killed by lightning

• 4,700 times more likely to die in an aeroplane or spaceship accident

• 129,000 times more likely to die in a gun assault

• 407,000 times more likely to die in a motor vehicle incident

• 6.9 million times more likely to die from cancer or heart disease

Statistically, the fear of immigrant terrorists is not a rational response, but this President is doing everything in his power to promote "Muslim bashing," which will only serve to recruit more Islamic extremists!

I am trying to be as irenic as I can in this informative thread. My presupposition is that there are not a few that may benefit from more substantial content on the matters behind the short snippets only possible in the face-to-face debates that are being discussed. This is a written venue, not a chat-box environment, hence the usual drive-bys, one liners, etc., that often accompany virtual verbal communications of mere "chatting" should not apply.

Get real.. Your problem is that you demand everyone smoke your brand for hope to reason through your convoluted conceited presentations.. No one speaks like you write and that isn't meant to be a compliment..

"That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15 (KJV)

Don't know how much longer I will be in this thread either.
I haven't quite made it through the 2nd video.
This is the first time I've watched Matt Slick debate, and it's hard to watch.
He's not answering much at all, and his constant responses of "sorta is and sorta isn't" just gets tiresome and boring.
I don't know how Will Duffy managed to keep his cool as well as he did.

I watched both but commented after the first one. Then I watched some of part 2 again and I see what you're saying. I also watched part of a podcast with Matt but it never went anywhere.

To me, Matt is what I call a 'tactic debater' and he used several tactics.
Poisoning the well was one of the first ones he used in his opening statement with all the Mormonism stuff.
He used the tactic of repeating himself in his answers and giving much longer answers than needed (filler-busting), and thus your opponent has less time to ask more questions.
He kept trying to move the goal posts to dominate the debate towards predestination instead of 'is GOD loving'.
Instead of answering a direct question he would offer to study it out with you later so you could learn ----- (in my school debate class you would have lost points big time for doing something like that to your opponent. And Matt did it a lot.).

Yes, many times Slick said to Will, "you need to study that more" and similar comments and many times said "I'll help you study that more, but we don't have time right now" and such. Once or twice Matt said said that he himself needed to study more about a subject.

I would assume no one speaks as they write. The former is extemporaneous, the latter should be more studied and deliberate. If they are not, then one has no real faculty of proper reasoning and discourse, rather they are just pouring whatever pops into their noggin out on paper (or the screen). Which is to say, I am not here to "chat" in most instances. The context of a thread dictates if it is light banter. The context of this thread is not so dictated.

Those that have nothing really to say about the substance of the debates being discussed should perhaps refrain from giving ample evidence of the same. Along those lines, if and when you are able to gain control of yourself, perhaps you will return to the opening of my earlier response and actually provide the information I was seeking. While you are at it, please try to properly capture the quote tags when quoting another so that all can easily return to the original post to examine its full context.

AMR

Re Quote tags: I'll do that when you take away the need for 3 dictionaries and 6 Greek lexicons for one to even begin pondering your spiritually useless Ligonier clap trap abtracts.

"That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15 (KJV)

Trinity trumpets........

Originally Posted by JudgeRightly

More accurately, it is communication between the physical human and the spiritual God, emphasis on physical and spiritual.

Yes, this is a view I proposed earlier since any man can pray to God the Infinite Spirit, since that Spirit is omnipresent. Any embodied being or incarnate soul, no matter how divine....if/when he prays to the Universal Father,...will of course be praying to the greater Omni-Presence that is everywhere present. This is understood from a unitarian, trinitarian or any 'arian' context. The allness of 'God' abounds everywhere at once.

Correct. The Son (human, also God), the second Person of the Trinity, is communicating with the Father (Spirit, also God), the first Person of the Trinity.

Note a Trinitarian view of God, as defined/described by orthodox Christianity is unsupported by the OT and unnecessary really. ( assumed as a relational construct or model, its fine, but its usefulness to some is questionable). Jesus is praying the Infinite, omnipresent Father, - this is all that essential to recognize.

You would have to show where in the OT a Trinity is taught, postulated or defined....and where orthodox Jewish rabbis prophets both ancient and modern TEACH such a thing (Jesus is to be included among these rabbis). They do not subscribe to or believe the orthodox Christian 'assumption' of a Trinity (as DEFINED by them) existing, for YHWH has always been 'echad'. 'Echad' means 'one', 'first', 'unique', 'sameness', 'singularity', 'undivided oneness'.

To be more precise, you have three persons in complete agreement with each other, always in communication. He (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) is God.

Only in Trinitarian theology

On this note, I'm just stating a more traditional orthodox Jewish perspective here, which is truly monotheistic and UNITARIAN. (I'm not claiming it is the only possible view, but share to combat the tendency toward 'dogmatism' often sported by some traditionalists) - for a greater cosmic presentation of a 'Paradise Trinity' existing within a higher cosmic hierarchy, one can see the Urantia Book on that here - its wonderful presentation of divine hierarchy excels or goes way beyond a limited orthodox Christian trinity-template.

cherry picking........

Not sure why the above is considered 'spam' since it directly addresses the thread subject and additionally expands on many other related points, pertinent to the subject at hand. Now if you think this deserves to be 'spammed', then you might as well do it to all of my posts.

One option is to engage the subject and debate it, instead of marginalize and censor a commentary just because it does not totally or perfectly agree with your own 'theology' or 'doctrinal beliefs', or expand your mind to consider there are many different points of view and perspectives on a given subject

PRESIDENT TRUMP AND HIS FAMILY
- Trump, along with his son-in-law Jared Kushner, who is part owner of his own real estate firm, will benefit from lower taxes on so-called “pass through” income, which is money earned by partnerships and other types of businesses whose income is passed through to its owner and taxed at the individual tax rate
- both benefit from breaks for commercial real estate in the tax legislation
- under current law, that income is taxed at rates as high as 39.6%, but Under the bill, much of that income could be taxed at a rate as low as 29.6%, subject to some limitations
- real estate also avoided new limits on interest deductions and retained its ability to defer taxes on the exchange of similar kinds of properties

BIG CORPORATIONS
- big retailers will benefit from the new corporate rate of 21%, since those companies pay relatively close to the full 35% rate
- multinational industries, particularly technology and pharmaceutical companies, like Google, Facebook, Apple, Johnson & Johnson and Pfizer have accumulated nearly $3 trillion offshore, mostly in tax haven subsidiaries, untouched by the United States taxman
- tax bill forces those companies to gradually bring that money home, but it will be taxed at rates ranging from 8% to 15.5%, far lower than the new 21% rate
- American companies will no longer owe full corporate taxes on future profits they say they earn abroad, providing more incentive to push income into tax haven subsidiaries
- the bill even includes provisions that could encourage companies to move workers abroad, despite pledges to do the opposite

MULTIMILLIONAIRES
- “death tax” was lifted to $22 million from $11 million meaning a big tax cut for people with estates worth tens of millions of dollars
- top rate applying to wages and interest income would be cut to 37% from 39.6%

PRIVATE EQUITY MANAGERS
- the purported reform to this tax provision will affect few if any private equity managers, leaving the loophole intact

PRIVATE SCHOOLS AND THE PEOPLE WHO CAN AFFORD THEM
- a type of tax-preferred savings plan — known as a 529 plan — to save for their children’s’ elementary and secondary education.
- currently these savings plans are only eligible for college, but be expanded to allow for up to $10,000 a year for tuition at private and religious schools

THE LIQUOR BUSINESS
- excise taxes for small brewers and distillers are reduced in the final agreement
- those industries are often based in rural areas, have strong lobbyists, and located in states with powerful senators, like Senator Rob Portman of Ohio
- Portman tucked a provision to help craft brewers into the Senate legislation

ARCHITECTS AND ENGINEERS
- originally restricted in how much they could benefit from the new pass-through provision but the final version will let them benefit fully

TAX ACCOUNTANTS AND LAWYERS
- despite Trump's pledge to simplify the tax code, the rushed legislation will probably have the opposite effect
- complicated new provisions, staggered dates and new rates
- a boom in business advising clients on how to restructure their employment and compensation arrangements to take advantage of the lower tax rates on income reported by corporations and pass-through entities

Trump Tax Reform: LOSERS

PEOPLE BUYING HEALTH INSURANCE
- repeal of the individual mandate,according to the Congressional Budget Office, will result in higher premiums that will result in 13 million fewer Americans with health coverage

INDIVIDUAL TAXPAYERS IN THE FUTURE
- to stay under the $1.5 trillion limit, the proposed cuts for individuals and families temporary will expire at the end of 2025, but corporate tax cuts will be permanent
- Republicans contend that future Congresses to extend the lower rates but there are no guarantees,
- use of a less generous measure of inflation would push taxpayers into higher tax brackets more quickly

THE ELDERLY
- automatic cuts based on 2010 legislation will target Medicare, the health insurance program for the elderly and disabled
- dozens of other programs are likely to be cut as well

LOW-INCOME FAMILIES
- claims using the earned-income tax credit will lose out on at least $19 billion over the coming decade under the bill because of the change in the way inflation is calculated

PEOPLE IN HIGH PROPERTY TAX, HIGH INCOME STATES
- homeowners in high-tax states like New York, New Jersey and California could be big losers, particularly if they have high property taxes
- ability to deduct their local property taxes and state and local income taxes from their federal tax bills is now capped at $10,000 and could offset any benefit of lower income tax rates

PUERTO RICO
- had sought an exemption from new taxes, citing the frail state of its economy nearly three months after Hurricane Maria
- tax bill treats affiliates of American companies on the island as if Puerto Rico were a foreign country and imposes a 12.5% on intellectual property
- Puerto Rico’s governor said this tax would hurt the biomedical and technology affiliates that make up about a third of Puerto Rico’s tax base