SordidEuphemism: I've got a question for the religious, specifically the Christians, who use graphic imagery and caustic speech to dissuade others from abortion.

I've never met anyone in real life who's protested an abortion clinic, even those I know that are most vehemently pro-life.

I'm pro-choice in that I believe abortion should be legal, but anti-abortion in the sense that I generally think it's morally iffy to have one in most cases. This viewpoint pisses everyone off so I wouldn't dare go near protesters on either side.

mesmer242:SordidEuphemism: I've got a question for the religious, specifically the Christians, who use graphic imagery and caustic speech to dissuade others from abortion.

I've never met anyone in real life who's protested an abortion clinic, even those I know that are most vehemently pro-life.

It's not uncommon around here, unfortunately. It's good business for the churches, too. Free advertisement fills the pews, after all. (Cynical? Me? No!)

I'm pro-choice in that I believe abortion should be legal, but anti-abortion in the sense that I generally think it's morally iffy to have one in most cases. This viewpoint pisses everyone off so I wouldn't dare go near protesters on either side.

I'm fine with your viewpoint, so you're welcome to hang with me if I get the tarps back out. I'm of a mind that one's beliefs should not impact the bodies or legal actions of another. Feel what you want, but don't expect others to feel the same way.

Yep, that's criminal, and indefensible. He'll probably suffer appropriate penalties under law. He personally knew what he did was wrong, and apologized immediately, and recognized that an apology was not enough. That's about the most you could expect, from anyone.

ikanreed:Yep, that's criminal, and indefensible. He'll probably suffer appropriate penalties under law. He personally knew what he did was wrong, and apologized immediately, and recognized that an apology was not enough. That's about the most you could expect, from anyone.

mesmer242:I'm pro-choice in that I believe abortion should be legal, but anti-abortion in the sense that I generally think it's morally iffy to have one in most cases. This viewpoint pisses everyone off so I wouldn't dare go near protesters on either side.

I think the majority of people who are pro choice believe something similar. "Abortion should be safe, legal, and rare."

ikanreed:Yep, that's criminal, and indefensible. He'll probably suffer appropriate penalties under law. He personally knew what he did was wrong, and apologized immediately, and recognized that an apology was not enough. That's about the most you could expect, from anyone.

This.

It is sad when a guy who punches an old lady is acting more honorably than most of the people posting in this thread. I'm pro-choice and an atheist, and I am ashamed to be associated with most of the people in here who hold the same views. We are supposed to be better than this.

ikanreed:Yep, that's criminal, and indefensible. He'll probably suffer appropriate penalties under law. He personally knew what he did was wrong, and apologized immediately, and recognized that an apology was not enough. That's about the most you could expect, from anyone.

But this is Fark and like a massive and unquenchable tampon, we want blood.

You'll never convince them that a bundle of cells is not a child. That's what their whole dogma in this fight depends on. They don't care that a fetus is incapable of pain sensation, or conscious awareness before the 20th week of gestation. They don't care that 96% of Abortions in the United States happen before the 14th week.

They don't care that the fact a heart is beating does not mean it's "alive" as we define a human child. Or that the fetal circulatory system does little to no work, at all.

Of course, in the Venn Diagram of "Pro-Life", these are the same people who were convinced that Terri Schiavo was alive-o, and that letting her die in accordance with her wishes was murder.

Relatively Obscure:ikanreed: Yep, that's criminal, and indefensible. He'll probably suffer appropriate penalties under law. He personally knew what he did was wrong, and apologized immediately, and recognized that an apology was not enough. That's about the most you could expect, from anyone.

SordidEuphemism:mesmer242: SordidEuphemism: I've got a question for the religious, specifically the Christians, who use graphic imagery and caustic speech to dissuade others from abortion.

I've never met anyone in real life who's protested an abortion clinic, even those I know that are most vehemently pro-life.

It's not uncommon around here, unfortunately. It's good business for the churches, too. Free advertisement fills the pews, after all. (Cynical? Me? No!)

I've belonged to or attended churches in three states, and have been to churches in three others... all of various denominations in different parts of the country, and I've never been to one that used anti-abortion rhetoric as advertising, or even mentioned it in church at all. Only one of them had what I would consider a strongly obvious political slant at all and still - abortion was never mentioned. So I really can't figure out what kinds of churches support the protesters because I've never seen one. By far, the vast majority of churches I've seen spend their time either on local homeless/food bank type stuff or international missionaries.

I'm pro-choice in that I believe abortion should be legal, but anti-abortion in the sense that I generally think it's morally iffy to have one in most cases. This viewpoint pisses everyone off so I wouldn't dare go near protesters on either side.

I'm fine with your viewpoint, so you're welcome to hang with me if I get the tarps back out. I'm of a mind that one's beliefs should not impact the bodies or legal actions of another. Feel what you want, but don't expect others to feel the same way.

Yeah, you and I are in the same boat - I'm a libertarian-leaning liberal. I figure that it's most important that laws don't restrict anyone's religious beliefs - which is completely different from enforcing those beliefs, or ignoring them. I have actually had people tell me, angrily so, that I'm not "pro-choice" enough though. Pretty annoying.

caleb4god:Was the hero tag on vacation today or something. somebody buy this man a drink for his bravery!

He's just given credence to every kook statement that Fox News has promoted about pro-choice individuals. This will be masturbatory confirmation fodder on every right-wing circle jerk for the next 10 years, I promise you that.

While it's awesome that someone punched an insufferable coont in the face (and yes, anti-abortion activists are vile, insufferable coonts for the way they harass people.), it's not helping by any stretch of the imagination.

You'll never convince them that a bundle of cells is not a child. That's what their whole dogma in this fight depends on. They don't care that a fetus is incapable of pain sensation, or conscious awareness before the 20th week of gestation. They don't care that 96% of Abortions in the United States happen before the 14th week.

They don't care that the fact a heart is beating does not mean it's "alive" as we define a human child. Or that the fetal circulatory system does little to no work, at all.

Of course, in the Venn Diagram of "Pro-Life", these are the same people who were convinced that Terri Schiavo was alive-o, and that letting her die in accordance with her wishes was murder.

I don't care what they believe, the instant they start using their beliefs to control what I do with my own body is where I start agreeing with dillholes who punch little old biddies.

mbillips:Carth: doubled99: This proves people for abortion are crazy and dangerous

You think punching one old person is more proof of that than murdering millions of innocent babies?

Murder, huh? Obviously premeditated, too. So, you're in favor of the death penalty for women who have abortions, I assume. Or life without parole, if you're one of those strict pro-lifers.

/God murders just as many "innocent babies" in the womb as doctors do, y'know. And yet, I never see anyone working to stop the holocaust of miscarriages.

It must be hard for you to exist on the internet with such a broken sarcasm detector. If you start a crowd funding campaign to buy a new one I'll pitch in a few bucks because that is no way to go through life.

JuggleGeek:mesmer242: I'm pro-choice in that I believe abortion should be legal, but anti-abortion in the sense that I generally think it's morally iffy to have one in most cases. This viewpoin

JuggleGeek:mesmer242: I'm pro-choice in that I believe abortion should be legal, but anti-abortion in the sense that I generally think it's morally iffy to have one in most cases. This viewpoint pisses everyone off so I wouldn't dare go near protesters on either side.

I think the majority of people who are pro choice believe something similar. "Abortion should be safe, legal, and rare."

That got taken out of the democratic platform a few years ago, IIRC. The CDC says there were almost 800,000 abortions in 2009 so calling it rare would be incorrect, I think. We really need to do a better job of preventing unwanted pregnancies as a society.

JuggleGeek:If you don't have the ability to access one, then "safe and legal" go out the window, so your argument is built on top of a strawman.

/since you aren't bright enough to talk without cussing, I'll amend that to "on top of a f*cking strawman".

I think some wires got crossed here. I wasn't building a strawman.

What the slogan "safe, legal, and rare" does is open the door for more and more 'legal' restrictions on abortions. Waiting periods, permission slips, vaginal ultrasounds, the forced consumption of misinformation. The conservatives that pass these laws can then say, "Well it's still safe and legal, we're just making it more rare!" And they'd be right. That's why it's important to define what is meant by "rare". Rare in the need for an abortion, not in the ability of a woman to access one.

And when I posted "none of your goddamn business" that also includes me - none of my goddamn business. It wasn't a slight towards you. I'm guessing we have similar beliefs with regards to abortion.

HeadLever:Strawman. The 'dogma' depends that the item you are discussing is the beginning of a unique human life.

A dividing cell is not a "human life". It's a human cell. A fetus, before the 20th week of gestation, is neither self-aware nor does it feel pain. In some cases, it will NEVER do this. If this is what you actually believe, you need to go around charging oncologists with genocide every time they kill a cancerous tumor. Remember, those are human cells.

We define "human life" by the ability to be self-aware and engage in your environment. This is why it's perfectly acceptable in our society, outside of idiots who want to involve themselves in medical care of others, to allow someone to be withdrawn from life support when all other measures are futile. Or for someone to stop tube feeds when there is NO hope of recovery and a good quality of life.

hardinparamedic:caleb4god: Was the hero tag on vacation today or something. somebody buy this man a drink for his bravery!

He's just given credence to every kook statement that Fox News has promoted about pro-choice individuals. This will be masturbatory confirmation fodder on every right-wing circle jerk for the next 10 years, I promise you that.

While it's awesome that someone punched an insufferable coont in the face (and yes, anti-abortion activists are vile, insufferable coonts for the way they harass people.), it's not helping by any stretch of the imagination.

doubled99:If you want to tell others what they can and can't do with their own bodies, you probably deserve a swift punch in the nose.

Like drugs and prostitution? I hope you're for both of those as well.

Decriminalize drugs, legalize prostituion, tax and regulate both. The government has no business legislating morality; the drug problem should be treated as health problem rather than as a criminal one, and legalizing and regulating prostituion is the best way to protect sex workers and their clients from violence and disease.

Who has been murdering children wholesale and not batting an eye? Outside of countries with HUGE amounts of unrest, Civil Wars, and ethnic cleansing.

/American Pro-Lifers: fark the ones that are actually alive, we're trying to make a difference over here!//I would love to see these idiots protesting a mass grave in Serbia///I'm sure they'd be begging for a shove in the back by the end of the day