what caster DOESNT like to have their enemies convicted...or melee'ers too for that matter. It may not be as satisfying as lets say......level 30 fanaticism to all meleers..but it's still a really great aura to use..Plus it removes some elemental immunities. How sweet is that!

the only problems im having with my avenger are running out of mana and i get into trouble if i get mobbed by monsters since vengeance is slow.

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Have you tried damage to mana items?

Also with mobs you'll find that an Act V merc is more aggressive and with a Sazabi's set they're pretty vicious.

I personally use an Act2 prayer merc decked out with crushing blow.

Edit: you prolly know this already but just in case there is a low mana build that only puts 1 in Vengence and raises the damage by adding to synergies only... or you can switch to zeal to leech back some mana

If you are worried about Vengeance speed on Ladder, get a good 2 socket Djinn Slayer and Shaelx2 for 9 FPS on the weapon alone. Thats what I use, very nice weapon, but Ladder only. Very wicked speed using Zeal, but I'm an Avenger and rarely use Zeal except in special circumstances such as against Diablo Clone.

the only problems im having with my avenger are running out of mana and i get into trouble if i get mobbed by monsters since vengeance is slow.

resists are huge, and defense is huge with holy shield so you will be a pretty good tank.

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mana potions are cheaper than loads of mana leech. also, running a few yards away and flashing redemption tends to refill both bubbles instantly if its above lvl4 or 5.

oh, and that low mana-build in the avenger guide is lame. it ignores that vengeance also boosts AR with each added lvl, so unless you want to waste a lot of points in dex to get your AR up, buck up an deal with the mana intensive build you've chosen.

and yeah, who doesnt like conviction? insane res reduction and insane def reduction, for everybody, not just you. Every sorc should have an avenger with them to tank and convict. Its fun to join games and see the "yum conviction" messages pop up

oh, and that low mana-build in the avenger guide is lame. it ignores that vengeance also boosts AR with each added lvl, so unless you want to waste a lot of points in dex to get your AR up, buck up an deal with the mana intensive build you've chosen.

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hey hey, very funny :lol:

a lvl 25 conviction gives -92% def reduc, which is the same as multiplying your total AR by 12.5

your max resist are 95/95/95/75 with both builds, assuming guard angel, so no difference in this departement.

to sum it up :
ar from vengence is useless, no point here for the max vengence built.
max resist are the same for both builts if guard angel
the ONLY 2 DIFFERENCES between the builts is :
=> low mana cost deals 15% less elemental dmg (same physical dmg)
=> max vengence cost twice more mana.

then it just depends on your gear.
i think it's easier to have a well rounded gear with low mana cost. an upgraded nightsmoke has completely ended my mana problems (0% ml).

if you spend more time swinging because you don't have mana pbs and because your better gear allows you to stay in the fray, then low mana cost is king

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nice stats regarding the 2 builds. Rather than advocating either though, I would suggest at least 10pts in each resist aura b4 pumping Vengence, then see how much lvls of Vengence u can get away with without excessive town trips.

I'm using a x3 Shaeled' Grisworld's caddy. Hits 8fps with 1 socket free. Think I'll put a p skull there to help with leeching, but still uncertain.