The pilot in question -- don't know which -- is obviously familiar with previous pilot suicides (Egypt Air 990, SilkAir 185) and knows from those incidents that he must put crash the plane somewhere where the wreckage cannot be found. Otherwise, the life insurance will not pay out and he, and perhaps his family, is shamed.

He must somehow take out the co-pilot. He can take out the passengers and remaining crew, if that's in his plan, with oxygen deprivation. But once he takes out the co-pilot, he has free run of things.

The flight transponder stops almost immediately after he leaves Malaysian control and bids them farewell, but before he gets into Vietnamese ATC control. This is by careful design. It provides the gap needed for him to make his course change and it also leads searchers to the wrong position to search. What's more, this spot is over deep water, away from land. Everyone will think to scour that area where the transponder stops at about 0107 local, thinking something catastrophic happened. Which is exactly what happened.

But at that moment he heads west towards the Indian ocean to end it all in an area where the wreckage will be very hard to find -- the Mid-Indian range.

The Mid-Indian basin is deep, but it's also too flat and wreckage would be easier to spot there. But the Mid-Indian range is full of hills and crevices and finding wreckage in that area with no surface datum (flotsam) indicating a rough position would be nearly impossible. No wreckage, no proof of suicide, insurance pays out.

The pilot knew exactly when to shut off the transponder to maximize the time available to alter course without drawing immediate suspicion. He shut down a remaining comms system later - perhaps after realizing it was on, or maybe it was timed to coincide with a glide time - who knows. And perhaps he even realized that his airline did not subscribe to Rolls-Royce's automated data-link engine monitoring service, but he never realized that that automated service still pinged the satellite every hour or so and that is why the Navies of that region (and the US Navy) are heading into the Indian Ocean to search. And they're going to find that plane on the Mid-Indian Range.

zimbomba63:schief2: freetomato: Until a couple of weeks ago, I'd never heard of the Andaman Islands. I saw this recently, and am now pretty fascinated.

That Pandit guy mentioned in the article wrote a book ('The Sentinelese'), short but fascinating. Unfortunately also a biatch to find.

<i>Other unintentional encounters include on August 2, 1981,a Hong Kong freighter navigating the choppy waters of the Bay of Bengal ran aground on a submerged coral reef. The ship, called the Primrose, was hopelessly stuck. The crew stayed on their boat for a few days, when the saw native people advancing towards their ship, armed with spears, bows and arrows .The captain made a distress call via radio and the crew were airlifted to safety by helicopter.

The last recorded contact with the Sentinelese was in 2006, when the Sentinelese archers killed two fishermen who were fishing illegally within range of the island. The archers later drove off, with a hail of arrows, the helicopter that was sent to retrieve the bodies.</i>

Hard. Core.

Well, the next helicopter they send, should be a military one, with a 20mm Vulcan gun. That would be perfect to give the old Sentinelese archers a taste of the 21st century. Then, we'll see how "hard core" the survivors are.

I sometimes have encounters with people whose simple acts of human kindness restore my faith in the human species. Woven into the multiple "missing jet" FARK threads is a recurring concern for the fate of the passengers/crew and their families.

Here is hoping this post is the most ugly thing I read, and that you proffer, today.

I'd ask "who peed in your cornflakes" but "you were reincarnated from the anthrax-laden blanket-giving American settlers, weren't you?" seems more fitting.

parasol:zimbomba63: schief2: freetomato: Until a couple of weeks ago, I'd never heard of the Andaman Islands. I saw this recently, and am now pretty fascinated.

That Pandit guy mentioned in the article wrote a book ('The Sentinelese'), short but fascinating. Unfortunately also a biatch to find.

<i>Other unintentional encounters include on August 2, 1981,a Hong Kong freighter navigating the choppy waters of the Bay of Bengal ran aground on a submerged coral reef. The ship, called the Primrose, was hopelessly stuck. The crew stayed on their boat for a few days, when the saw native people advancing towards their ship, armed with spears, bows and arrows .The captain made a distress call via radio and the crew were airlifted to safety by helicopter.

The last recorded contact with the Sentinelese was in 2006, when the Sentinelese archers killed two fishermen who were fishing illegally within range of the island. The archers later drove off, with a hail of arrows, the helicopter that was sent to retrieve the bodies.</i>

Hard. Core.

Well, the next helicopter they send, should be a military one, with a 20mm Vulcan gun. That would be perfect to give the old Sentinelese archers a taste of the 21st century. Then, we'll see how "hard core" the survivors are.

I sometimes have encounters with people whose simple acts of human kindness restore my faith in the human species. Woven into the multiple "missing jet" FARK threads is a recurring concern for the fate of the passengers/crew and their families.

Here is hoping this post is the most ugly thing I read, and that you proffer, today.

I'd ask "who peed in your cornflakes" but "you were reincarnated from the anthrax-laden blanket-giving American settlers, weren't you?" seems more fitting.

Excuse me! I forgot we were dealing with a simple, peaceful people, you know the old "noble savage" trope, who were forced to kill the fishermen, because of their aggressive net casting. The helicopter thing. Simply, the pastoral people misunderstanding the intentions of the aggressive helicopter, which was attempting to aggressively retrieve the bodies of the fishermen. The islanders might have thought it was there to aggressively take their sacred mojo away or something, so their violence was perfectly acceptable. Where there any white guys involved? Ah, then you can sit back and with a satisfied look, because it's RACISM. And if there weren't any white guys involved, well maybe, they built the helicopter, so naturally, RACISM.

Anthrax! I thought the myth said it was smallpox? American settlers! I thought the myth said it was a British officer? How am I to feel chastised, when you can even get your accusatory myths correct? You need to up your game.

zimbomba63:schief2: freetomato: Until a couple of weeks ago, I'd never heard of the Andaman Islands. I saw this recently, and am now pretty fascinated.

That Pandit guy mentioned in the article wrote a book ('The Sentinelese'), short but fascinating. Unfortunately also a biatch to find.

<i>Other unintentional encounters include on August 2, 1981,a Hong Kong freighter navigating the choppy waters of the Bay of Bengal ran aground on a submerged coral reef. The ship, called the Primrose, was hopelessly stuck. The crew stayed on their boat for a few days, when the saw native people advancing towards their ship, armed with spears, bows and arrows .The captain made a distress call via radio and the crew were airlifted to safety by helicopter.

The last recorded contact with the Sentinelese was in 2006, when the Sentinelese archers killed two fishermen who were fishing illegally within range of the island. The archers later drove off, with a hail of arrows, the helicopter that was sent to retrieve the bodies.</i>

Hard. Core.

Well, the next helicopter they send, should be a military one, with a 20mm Vulcan gun. That would be perfect to give the old Sentinelese archers a taste of the 21st century. Then, we'll see how "hard core" the survivors are.

Flying waypoint to waypoint is old school navigation. i.e. not something a terrorist is likely to know a damned thing about.

Here's a thought: Did the pilot have a family? Are they all accounted for? Imagine a phone call "We have your daughter. If you tell anyone, she dies. Now here's what you're going to do: You're going to divert this plane and land it here."

ummhima2:mbillips: ummhima2: most naval vessels are not equipped to forensically process 239 deceased people at the same time or to handle that many survivors at once with the traumatic injuries you would expect from a crash then you would have to deal with the death and burial rituals associated with the range of religious beliefs of the families on board

hospital ships can in most cases provide critical and surgical care to hundreds at once plus they can be used as a base for humanitarian needs during a major search

the point is to take the hospital to the survivors wherever they are so that they can get care as quickly as possible like we did in the Philippines

Hospital ships don't do autopsies, and right now there aren't any survivors. The only reason to bring a hospital ship somewhere is a natural disaster that knocks out the shore-based facilities. And the Indian Navy is more than capable of handling something like this; the U.S. Navy isn't the only one in the world.

Indian Navy may deploy state-of-the art surveillance plane to assist in search.

us navy had one in phillipines idiot that is flat out closer to the old search area

dumbass hospital ships provide critical and surgical care do you want to wait longer for the ship to get there just because you think india can do a better job would you voluntarily choose to wait ANY hospital ship would be valuable yes there is an indian naval base in the andaman islands but i doubt they have the LAND BASED INFRASTRUCTURE to provide the care needed or do you think all the little islands out there have the infrastructure needed hospital ships from any country are going to be better equipped to store a large number of bodies than a regular ship they also have laboratory facilities

it all goes to who is closer when it is found if it is found

there might be enough room for the families to travel back with their loved ones

If the plane crashed in the ocean, there are no "large number of bodies" there's "a very large number of tiny body parts". Read up on the Swissair 111 tragedy, fishermen were not recovering bodies, they were scooping up bits of flesh with nets.

Also, there are things like international rules that have to be followed. The US Navy hospital ship is still a military ship. It can't navigate Malaysian territorial waters without Malaysia's permission, nor can it do any "work" without the US navy sailors getting work visas to work in Malaysia. this may sound stupid, but it's the truth. In 2005, the Canadian Navy has a ship waiting for US State Secretary Rice to come back from a week-end shopping spree to give them permission to dock and start purifying water for NOLA. Had they not waited, it would have technically been an military invasion.

Third, look at a map. the Indian mainland is a lot closer to the Andaman Islands than the Philipines.

Finally, as of last week, the USNS Mercy was in San Diego, CA. Just a tad too far to be of any use.

zimbomba63:Excuse me! I forgot we were dealing with a simple, peaceful people, you know the old "noble savage" trope, who were forced to kill the fishermen, because of their aggressive net casting.

No one brought up that trope but you. The reason no one else wants to send a military helicopter to teach that tribe a lesson for killing two outsiders (who weren't, by our laws, allowed to fish in that area anyway) is that it won't help anything. It would cause a lot more death, and make them even more violently xenophobic. As things stand, they're only a danger to people who actually go into their territory, and there's no point to forcing our way in -- who would benefit from killing a bunch of them? It wouldn't be justice.

ummhima2:dumbass hospital ships provide critical and surgical care do you want to wait longer for the ship to get there just because you think india can do a better job would you voluntarily choose to wait ANY hospital ship would be valuable yes there is an indian naval base in the andaman islands but i doubt they have the LAND BASED INFRASTRUCTURE to provide the care needed or do you think all the little islands out there have the infrastructure needed hospital ships from any country are going to be better equipped to store a large number of bodies than a regular ship they also have laboratory facilities

The idea of that plane flying on for four hours with everyone on board dead is both horrific and beautiful. Just sailing away as part of a play unfolding in this stratospheric mausoleum. Destined for the next few hours to wait for the inevitable and poetic plunge, ironically back through a height that would not have taken their lives. But being not interested in this part of the sky either, continues on to embrace the salty sea and start the slow descent, finally to Earth.

James Rieper:If it was for pilot suicide, why bother turning off the transponders?

I'll bite. Maybe it was for insurance reasons. But I will hypothesize that if one was an aviation junkie, one would have followed stories that have all been reported here (Payne Stewart, AirFrance, etc). And perhaps with a big enough ego, they would want to be like Amelia Earhart in that they wanted their disappearance to be shrouded in mystery, go down in history, etc. So one might turn off the transponders and fly out to the vastness of the sea- knowing full well that it would take forever to find them. I posit that perhaps the 5+ hours of additional flying time could be cold feet, or to throw people off even more. They could have been flying in circles for all we know.

ummhima2:most naval vessels are not equipped to forensically process 239 deceased people at the same time or to handle that many survivors at once with the traumatic injuries you would expect from a crash then you would have to deal with the death and burial rituals associated with the range of religious beliefs of the families on board

hospital ships can in most cases provide critical and surgical care to hundreds at once plus they can be used as a base for humanitarian needs during a major search

the point is to take the hospital to the survivors wherever they are so that they can get care as quickly as possible like we did in the Philippines

Hospital ships don't do autopsies, and right now there aren't any survivors. The only reason to bring a hospital ship somewhere is a natural disaster that knocks out the shore-based facilities. And the Indian Navy is more than capable of handling something like this; the U.S. Navy isn't the only one in the world.

ummhima2:50,000 malaysia threads and not one thread for the poor folks in Philadelphia or am i not seeing it since only 2 people went to the hospital one of them with an injury one with an "illness" maybe i remember malaysia because they cant find their ass without a map or a plane with their own radar

Those poor folks in Philly went through what amounts to a bus accident. And there was a thread last night.

parasol:I sometimes have encounters with people whose simple acts of human kindness restore my faith in the human species. Woven into the multiple "missing jet" FARK threads is a recurring concern for the fate of the passengers/crew and their families.

Here is hoping this post is the most ugly thing I read, and that you proffer, today.

I'd ask "who peed in your cornflakes" but "you were reincarnated from the anthrax-laden blanket-giving American settlers, weren't you?" seems more fitting.

I was tempted to post a Red Forman "dumbass" .jpg but decided that much like a petulant child trying to get attention, he deserved to be ignored. I'm glad someone called him on it, though.

James Rieper:The facts are just baffling. I don't know what to make of this.

If the plane was diverted, you'd have to wonder to what end?

If it was for ransom, there's no demand. If it was to resell the plane, you'd have to kill 200 people to do it. Even the shadiest black marketer would pause over that. If it was for pilot suicide, why bother turning off the transponders? If it was destroyed in a terrorist attack, there have been no claims of responsibility.

That leaves way-out there theories like it's been diverted for eventual use in a terrorist attack. Even then though, why would no one from the plane make a cell phone call? It was obvious they weren't on their regular route, but none of the crew or passengers called or texted someone to say "Hey, don't come to the airport to pick me up?" Did someone collect all the phones? That would imply an organized group that so far hasn't been indicated by the passenger manifest. Even if a group depressurized the cabin in mid-flight, the oxygen masks should have dropped down. It wouldn't have necessarily incapacitated all the passengers at once.

Or it could be some botched version of any of the above. I suppose that includes an explosion or crash over open water in a way that did not create a visible debris field -- but I'm having trouble envisioning how that would happen. I mean, it's taken years to find some wrecks in the water, but there was usually some immediate notion of where they were.

Cell phones? There probably aren't many cell towers in the water to carry the signals. Satellite phones on the other hand...

YixilTesiphon:So, North Korea paid Myanmar/Burma to hijack the plane, land it in Burma, and North Korea stole the semiconductor experts from Freescale.

/occam's razor suggests no

Occam's razor is just right out the window at this point. Simplest explanation would be it suffered a catastrophic failure and went down when radar contact was initially lost. That does not appear to be the case. It's hard to image at this point it's anything other than foul play. But even still, where is the ransom demand? Did it in fact crash? I haven't a clue at this point.