I have a large number of different holders in my collection, something like 60 different types of varying makes/brands and vintages. Most makers seem to ave supported both plates and film in wooden holders, either by making different holders for each, e.g. Graflex and Colwood, or by supplying a 'universal' holder which was a plate holder supplied with a cut film insert so it could take either, e.g. MPP. MPP never actually made a conventional film holder as far as I am aware, their later holders were labeled 'Cut film holder', but were simply the universal holders with the film inserts permanently rivited in. MPP later supplied Fidelity holders. When holders became plastic support for plates seems to have been dropped; were there any plastic plate holders, I've never seen one?

The Graflex made holders which I have follow this general pattern. The oldest is a plate holder marked '114A/410' in the metal part, and stamped on the wood '4x5 GRAPHIC PLATE TYPE II' and 'U.S. PAT. 2056144' on one side, and 'FOLMER GRAFLEX CORP. U.S.A.' on the other. This holder is about 12mm shorter than typical Graphic holders but is a similar length to some Graflex ones which I have. Were all holders originally this shorter length, and they later increased the length to make it easier to insert and remove in a Graphic back? What sort of date would this holder be?

The Graphic film holders which I have are similar in design to those of other makes, and all are marked '4x5 GRAPHIC FILM HOLDER TYPE 5', however, there are may many minor variations between these holders, some are marked 'THE FOLMER GRAFLEX CORPORATION U.S.A', while others are 'MADE IN U.S.A. BY GRAFLEX INC. ROCHESTER 8 NEW YORK'. Some have metal darkslides, while most have the typical plastic ones, stamped '1444', though I have one where they look identical, but are stapmed '29678'. Interestingly, the embossed text on this holder is upside down on this holder compared to the others in the set, as it is on the Folmer Graflex one. Some of these holders also seem to be made from a different type of wood to the others. I'm guessing that the type 5 holder was made for a considerable period; does anybody know when they were introduced, and withdrawn? When did Folmer Graflex become Graflex INC?

If the plate holder is type II, and these holders are type 5, what happened to types 1,3 and 4; did they exist, and if so, what were the differences between them.

Then we come to the plastic 'Riteway' holders; these still seem to be extremely common, and all seem to be identical, except for the small number on them; what was the meaning of this number? I've seen a Graflex catalogue which lists both the standard Graphic holders (presumably the type 5) and the Riteway, with the latter at a higher price, so it seems that they made both for some time, but there was no date on the page that I saw; when were the Riteway holders introduced?

Finally, what is the story behind the 'Riteway' holders which were made by Filelity, the ones with the locking button and numbering wheels? These are very similar to the Graflex Riteway holders, the pattern of the moulded plastic is the same, as is the design of the flap, and the way the tape wraps around onto each side, rather than just being stuck onto the end as with most plastic holders. They are quite different to Fidelity's own 'Elite' holder. The 'Riteway' logo is also the same. Were these holders designed by Graflex but not introduced before the company went out of business, with Fidelity then taking over the production, or were they designed by Fidelity, who just bought the rights to the name? Graflex of course used numbering wheels on the Grafatic, so maybe it was their idea to use them on conventional holders as well. Some otherwise identical holders are branded 'Fidelity Astra'. What was the reason for this? Did Fidelity originally use the Riteway name, but then change to 'Fidelity Astra' on later ones?_________________Stephen Furley

This letter would be a great way to start an evening with you at a local pub. But alas I'm not Richard Branson and don't have a private jet so this will have to do. As to when glass plates were dropped. I don't know when Fidelity started, and I haven't seen any wood holders with Fidelity on them and I too have never seen a plastic glass plate holder, so I want to say that with the exception of astrophotography, the use of glass plates died after the war. So many young men were trained by Uncle Sam on film, that they saw no use for glass plates once on the GI bill (much like High School kids today see little correlation between a wet darkroom and digital photography) Astrophotography still used glass plates because they measured the image and film wasn't stable enough. 1/100th of a milimeter off on film means you'll be off by at least half a galaxy in the real world. Kodak still made Tri-x on glass plates until 2000 or so.

Par. #2 Well Folmer-Graflex corp existed between '28-'45 and Folmer & Schwing go back to 1897 as far as photography goes so there has to be earlier plate holders than yours. and your end question is yes they did make them longer so they were easier to hold onto with a a Speed Graphic or any other camera. It also gave them a second light trap. No mention of this new style holder is made in the 1946* (7th ed 3rd printing) of Graphic Graflex photography by Morgan and Lester, but the new style is mentioned in the 8th ed 1st pr in June of '47. The * is this seems to be a direct copy of the '44 edition so the change over could have come during the war.

Par. 3 Last question first The Folmer Graflex Corp became Graflex Inc. in April of 1945. And while they probably changed the dies for the film holders relatively quickly, they used up FG speed table plates before going to new ones. It would seem the Type 5 holder was made from roughly 1945-46 until at least the 50s when the Riteway took over.

A noteworthy improvement in holders has been made thorough the elongation of the holder at the end the dark slide enters. The additional length makes it possible to provide a convenient finger grip on the holder itself. It is no longer necessary to grasp the holder by the side handles when removing it. Of greater importance is the fact that this handle forms an additional light trap, since it fits snugly around the edge of the camera body, making it even more difficult for light to enter between the holder and the back of the camera. These holders are known as Type 5 Graphic Press Sheet Film Holders. (The Type 4 HOlders were of similar design but with a wood instead of a metal light trap cover)

Owners of Crown View cameras with Graphic Backs and special reducing backs for studio and larger view cameras should note that the additional step or light break mentioned interferes with the proper seating of the holders in these backs. For these cameras Graflex maintains a supply of the shorter original Type 1 Holders.

So the short film holders are Type 1
The short plate holders are Type 2
Long wood-trap holders are Type 4
Long metal trap holders are Type 5
and Graflex can't count.

Or Type 3 never made it into production. I've never seen any info on a Type 3 holder. They also mention several other holders like Century holders (for 5x7 Seeds) and in catalogs there were Imperial holders, Bromide holders, so maybe internally they called one of these a Type 3.(but these would be 5x7 at the smallest) There was also a Victory holder. A holder made "with a limited amount of vital war-time materials" This may have been the Type 3.

Also this doesn't take into account the early natural wood plate holders for both Graphic and Graflex backs. Were these type 0 and 00?

Riteways. The Riteway film holder was the next big step in film holder technology. It was also made in two pieces with the outside frame molded as one piece and the septum/ light trap as the second, they were pressed together which created a dead flat, non warping, moisture impervious, film holder. Tim Holden told me he got a letter from a photographer that insisted he needed 10 holders that varied the film plane registry no more than .003" from holder to holder and would if necessary, pay for custom machining. Tim went down and with a little checking pulled 10 holders out production that satisfied the specs.

Production started in 1950. The first batch (unknown quantity) did not have a number on them. After that they were given a sequential batch number. A ROUGH guide to the numbers is to round the number up to an even number, divide it in half and add that number to 1950. The largest number I've seen is 43. Round it up and divide and you get 22+1950=1972. That's about right.

It's possible they made both wood type 5s and Riteway's for a while, it's also possible that they kept the wood holders in the catalog until they ran out of stock.

The Fidelity story. A few years back I finally found a phone number for the company that makes Fidelity, Riteway and Elite holders. They are owned by Calumet photo. The man on the other end of the phone told me the owner of Fidelity bought the molds for the Riteways from Graflex (actually it was either Singer or Telex by then) He was the one that came up with the dark slide lock and the number wheels. Graflex had film identification holders--strips of celluloid that slipped under the rails at the light tap end, or you could cut tabs from sheets of film and glue them in at the flap end-- there's two slight depressions in the flap for this. Graflex even sold Ink for the purpose.

A quick Google for "Fidelity Astra film holders" netted several hits, all from the UK, so I suspect that the name Riteway was already trademarked on your side of the pond. I've never seen a Fidelity Astra film holder over here._________________"In order to invent, you need a good imagination and a lot of junk" Thomas Edison

The biggest improvement with the type 5 holders was that the slides are infrared safe. Type 4 and earlier are not. Your short plate holder could possibly be one that I have only run across once. I have one film, not plate, holder that is shorter from the light trap ridge to the bottom end than standard holders. What it fits is a mystery. I have numerous wood Fidelity film holders. I know only one thing about these - the dark slides won't interchange with the Graflex wood film holders. There are no plastic plate holders to my knowledge. The Fidelity and Riteway holders are commonly believed to be made in the same plant. Probably true. There are many, many more obsolete brands of holders out there. Some are quite innovative._________________Glenn

Fidelity did make wooden holders; I hadn't seen them until a couple of weeks ago when a couple came up on Ebay, from Pacific Rim Cameras, along with a Graflex type 5. I won them, and they arrived a few days ago. I would say that they aren't quite as well made as Graflex, Colwood or early MPP holders; later MPP ones were not as good. They have the familiar Fidelity logo embossed on a sunken area between the two light trap ridges. An unusual feature is a white write-on panel, as used on the later plastic holders, I haven't seen this on a wooden holder before. There is only one of these, on the right side, not two as on the plastic holders. The silver side of the slides has a single hole for identification, similar to the three holes on the ones on the plastic 'Delux' holders. It's not a holder I would use by choice, but it's interesting to compare with the way the design developed in later holders, and with what other makers were producing.

I believe that Ilford are still coating certain specialised emulsions on glass, but they turned down a recent request to make another batch of FP4. I have an almost full box of 5x4 FP4 plates which has no date on it, but from the design of the box probably dates from the '70s, so they were being made long after the war. Interestingly the emulsion is not the same as on film; it is rated at 160 A.S.A. not 125, and ID11 developer in the '80s still gave development times for FP4 plates, and they were different to those for film. I tried exposing one at 50 A.S.A., but it was under-exposed; I think I'll try the next one at 25, increase the development, and add a pinch of extra bromide to the developer.

It's interesting that MPP, who only stated up after the War, 1947 I think, only made a by then rather outdated thick wooden plate type holder and supplied film sheaths, their own ones which were better made than the Kodak ones, with them. By the '70s they were supplying Fidelity plastic holders.

It sounds like Graflex never made a 'long' plate holder then, which suggests that they dropped plate holders quite early, unlike MPP. The early version of the MPP Micro Technical holder, except for being thicker to take plates, is quite similar to the Graflex Type 5, and while not an exact copy, was clearly inspired by it. I have a Graflex (type, not make; I wish they wouldn't use the same name for the company and a type of camera back, it really confuses things) plate holder which does have the extra length, though there seems to be no reason for it with a Graflex holder. I don't think this is actually made by Graflex; the only marking on it is 'G'. The genuine Graflex film holders which I have are all short.

I get the impression hat the Graflex Riteway was an early (the first?) plastic holder, and that the other 1st generation plastic holders with metal handles on the slides, Fidelity Delux, Lisco Regal, Toyo etc came later. Graflex seem to have been innovative, though other makers often improved on their designs in later products, though this didn't seem to happen with the holders; none of the later ones seemed to improve on the Riteway, and there are probably more of them still around today than any other holder; you could probably find 100 of them on Ebay at any time.

The situation with the later, plastic handled, plastic holders is strange; Toyo ones seem to be made by Toyo, though I don't have one yet to compare with their older holder. The Fidelity Elite has replaced the Delux, And Fidelity also make the locking Riteway/Astra holder. both versions have Fidelity enbossed on them as the maker, but only the 'Astra' version has Fidelity as part of the name, i.e. 'Fidelity Astra'. The holders are otherwise identical as far as I can see.

The really odd thing is Lisco. The new Lisco Regal II holder is quite different to the old Regal. It seems to be identical to the Fidelity Elite, except for the colour of the box, the name, and the pattern embossed in the plastic. The maker is given as 'Lisco Products Co. Sun Valley CA.', the same location as Fidelity on their later holders. The U.S. Patent numbers are identical on both holders. They do indeed seem to be made by the same company, though why they continued to make two almost identical holders, functionally I can see no difference at all between them, is a mystery to me. The embossed pattern of the Fidelity Elite seems to retain one row of the diamonds from the older holder, but cover the rest of the area with the lines as were used on the Riteway, while the Lisco Regal II takes a Fidelity Elite holder, replaces the diamonds by a pattern almost the same as that on the older Lisco holder, and again overlays it with the lines copied from the Riteway. I cannot see any point in it at all. They only seem to have made the Lisco version in 5x4 and 10x8, while the Fidelity Elite was made in a wide range of sizes.

A few days ago somebody was selling new 10x8 Fidelity holders on Ebay. He claimed that these were from the last production run, and that Fidelity have now ended production of all holders; do you know if this is correct? If so, then it would seem to leave Toyo as the only remaining maker of 5x4 holders, and I don't think they make other sizes. Of course, there are plenty of good secondhand ones in circulation.

Thanks for the info; I must try to pick up a copy of Graphic Graflex Photography.

ps,

Some good news; after several years of tying I've finally managed to get permission to use the darkrooms at the College where I work. Things seem to be moving rapidly towards digital, but I think they will have at least some darkrooms for several years to come. Time to make up a batch of ID-78, and do some printing._________________Stephen Furley

You're right, the Fidelity slide is about 1mm narrower than the Graflex one. (I think I've got that the right way round; I'm typing this from the top deck of a London bus, via a mobile Internet connection, so I don't have the holders with me to check.)

Was infra-red sheet film much used? I know they made infra-red flashbulbs, so somebody must have used it I suppose; the military, maybe?_________________Stephen Furley

You can tell the Graflex type 5 holders by the number of little bumps on the dark slide pull. Type 5 has 5 bumps. Very innovative, eh? A lot of the earlier Graflex holder were re-equipped with type 5 slides. Infrared film was used a lot during the war, when regular flashbulbs were frowned upon or forbidden due to blackout regulations. Used with 5-R bulbs, there was only the faintest red glow that couldn't be seen more that a few feet away. There was one holder on the market that was nearly indestuctible and I can't remember the name although I have quite a few. They are all metal. No hinge tape as the hinge is actually a hinge. Very well made, though a bit heavier._________________Glenn