Right AND Left Tilt Table Saw?

ISTR an ad several years ago for a tablesaw that tilted both left and right.
It sticks out in my mind because I was just starting to enjoy creating
sawdust in earnest and making useful items from the non-sawdust portions.
;-) For stationary power tools all I had was a Delta single speed scroll
saw. I checked out a table saw book from my library & read it cover to
cover. One section discussed (of course ;-) right vs. left tilt saws. One
phrase sticks in my mind: "Some saws tilt left. Some tilt right. No table
saws tilt both ways." Shortly thereafter I saw an ad for a saw that tilted
both ways. It struck me because it was so different from the knowledge I'd
recently gotten from the book. "Here is a saw that tilts both ways!" It
was expensive so I requested no info from the manufacturer.
I bought a bench Delta 10" table saw and used it for a couple years.
Eventually -- and it took quite awhile <g> -- I needed a TS with more
capability and accuracy. (My inaccuracies were far greater than the limits
of its direct-drive, marginal fence and small table size. <g>)
I upgraded to the bottom-of-the-line Grizzly contractor saw. It was heaven!
With a good middle-cost blade I used the stock miter gage to cut a bunch of
thin cutoffs from the end of a scrap pine 2"x4". They weren't quite thin
enough to read through, but I did gather up samples and send them in snail
mail to relatives. <g> In the letters I wrote,
"This is what my new table saw can do. Notice how even and thin the 2x4"
cutting is. If it's broken that happened after I dropped it in the mailbox.
They were one piece when I put them in the envelope. For now the saw is
much more accurate than I am. Someday, if my woodworking stills improve
enough, I'd like to get a saw that is able to make cutoffs half as thick as
these. You'd be able to read through them."
I used the Grizzly a lot. Initially I was completely satisfied with the
stock fence. But my woodworking skills continued to improve and eventually
the small, random difference of the clamping of back edge of the fence
affected the cuts I was making. I bought a used "Shop Fox Original" fence
on the internet, expecting it to be an upgrade in accuracy from the Grizzly
stock fence. To make a long story short, IMO the Shop Fox Original
fence doesn't work nearly as well as the ads would have you believe and I'd
like to replace it. A good new fence is a major portion of the purchase of
a new saw, so why not look for a good new or used saw? <G>
So I'm thinking of upgrading from a contractor TS to a "real" table saw, a
220v contractor saw. Which way do I want it to tilt? Both! If I'm cutting
an angle from the left side, I want that doggone blade angled away from me.
If I'm ripping an angled cut from the right side, I still want that blade
angled away from me. I've had two TS kickback accidents. The first was
completely my fault -- a cutoff I didn't bother to take off the table got
into the blade and came spinning back. The second was (probably) also my
fault and wouldn't have happened if I'd been using a splitter as wide as the
blade. (The stock splitter is very thin and may not have prevented the
kickback had it been installed.) The second kickback occurred on July 20,
2003 (I wrote the date on the ruined piece and keep it in the shop as a
safety reminder.) The wood grazed my left hand as it spun off the TS and
hit the freezer behind me. Standing there bleeding on the saw and the
floor, I counted my fingers and was rejoicing to find 10 of them still
attached to my hands. More than 3 months later my left hand still has scars
from the accident. I hope the scars last another 100 years as a safety
reminder.
I'd really like for the table saw blade to always be tilted away from me
when making angled cuts. If I had the space a solution would be to have
both a left and right tilt table saw. But in my single-car garage shop I
don't have the space.
Do table saws that tilt to both left and right exist?
Thanks!
-- Mark

You might be thinking of one that you could order with EITHER right or left
tilt. Not BOTH. Both ways is pretty tough, as in one direction the arbor &
pulley & arbor housing would have to tilt up into the table. Not much room
there.
John Martin

Mark:
I remember reading of a (cabinet type) saw at approximately
the mid-eighties/early nineties but lost the article (in what, I don't
remember either) before I could read it in more detail.
Basically, all I got from it that I can remember was picture
captions and scanned it in a cursory manor.
As I recall from the drawings, the drive was accomplished via
the motor (enclosed) hung below the trunions and tensioned the
belt with it's weight - BUT - the motor/mandrel assy. was mounted
at an angle of 50-55deg. (+/-) relative to the blade and drove the
blade via a slender universal joint at the right side (relative the
operator) of the blade which turned in what looked like a beefier
variation of a bicycle's (rear) fork
The entire assembly moved via the action of a bit heavier than
most screw-shaft in a conventional manner.
Blade height was accomplished likewise but the weight was
dampened with a spring - similar in type to that on a screen door -
(both ends had a short piece of chain, presumably for adjustments)
connecting a cast-in loop on the table bottom in line with the trunion
pivot points to a point on the motor support at the pulley-end.
Thus enabling BOTH right AND left tilt, accommodating
WHATEVER circumstances that might arise !
And so at virtually no additional cost of production - beyond the
initial tooling - meaning 'they' would actually have to DO THAT
and not merely use parts mix-matched from others as patterns or
adaptations thereof.
Really, I thought it at least bordering on ingenious !
I can't help wondering why no one has filled this obvious need
before!? I just might have looked into it if I had the capital and sufficient
hours in the day.
Given the related 'Subject Line' traffic on the R vs. L tilt subject,
though there IS an over all preference for the right-tilt there, it
appears, DOES remain MUCH in the way of market for BOTH!?
Just a related recollection that I thought might be of help. (?)
Warmly, Griz
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
wrote:
"ISTR an ad several years ago for a tablesaw that tilted both left and right.
"It sticks out in my mind because I was just starting to enjoy creating
"sawdust in earnest and making useful items from the non-sawdust portions.
";-) For stationary power tools all I had was a Delta single speed scroll
"saw. I checked out a table saw book from my library & read it cover to
"cover. One section discussed (of course ;-) right vs. left tilt saws. One
"phrase sticks in my mind: "Some saws tilt left. Some tilt right. No table
"saws tilt both ways." Shortly thereafter I saw an ad for a saw that tilted
"both ways. It struck me because it was so different from the knowledge I'd
"recently gotten from the book. "Here is a saw that tilts both ways!" It
"was expensive so I requested no info from the manufacturer.
"
"I bought a bench Delta 10" table saw and used it for a couple years.
"Eventually -- and it took quite awhile <g> -- I needed a TS with more
"capability and accuracy. (My inaccuracies were far greater than the limits
"of its direct-drive, marginal fence and small table size. <g>)
"
"I upgraded to the bottom-of-the-line Grizzly contractor saw. It was heaven!
"With a good middle-cost blade I used the stock miter gage to cut a bunch of
"thin cutoffs from the end of a scrap pine 2"x4". They weren't quite thin
"enough to read through, but I did gather up samples and send them in snail
"mail to relatives. <g> In the letters I wrote,
" "This is what my new table saw can do. Notice how even and thin the 2x4"
"cutting is. If it's broken that happened after I dropped it in the mailbox.
"They were one piece when I put them in the envelope. For now the saw is
"much more accurate than I am. Someday, if my woodworking stills improve
"enough, I'd like to get a saw that is able to make cutoffs half as thick as
"these. You'd be able to read through them."
"
"I used the Grizzly a lot. Initially I was completely satisfied with the
"stock fence. But my woodworking skills continued to improve and eventually
"the small, random difference of the clamping of back edge of the fence
"affected the cuts I was making. I bought a used "Shop Fox Original" fence
"on the internet, expecting it to be an upgrade in accuracy from the Grizzly
"stock fence. To make a long story short, IMO the Shop Fox Original
"fence doesn't work nearly as well as the ads would have you believe and I'd
"like to replace it. A good new fence is a major portion of the purchase of
"a new saw, so why not look for a good new or used saw? <G>
"
"So I'm thinking of upgrading from a contractor TS to a "real" table saw, a
"220v contractor saw. Which way do I want it to tilt? Both! If I'm cutting
"an angle from the left side, I want that doggone blade angled away from me.
"If I'm ripping an angled cut from the right side, I still want that blade
"angled away from me. I've had two TS kickback accidents. The first was
"completely my fault -- a cutoff I didn't bother to take off the table got
"into the blade and came spinning back. The second was (probably) also my
"fault and wouldn't have happened if I'd been using a splitter as wide as the
"blade. (The stock splitter is very thin and may not have prevented the
"kickback had it been installed.) The second kickback occurred on July 20,
"2003 (I wrote the date on the ruined piece and keep it in the shop as a
"safety reminder.) The wood grazed my left hand as it spun off the TS and
"hit the freezer behind me. Standing there bleeding on the saw and the
"floor, I counted my fingers and was rejoicing to find 10 of them still
"attached to my hands. More than 3 months later my left hand still has scars
"from the accident. I hope the scars last another 100 years as a safety
"reminder.
"
"I'd really like for the table saw blade to always be tilted away from me
"when making angled cuts. If I had the space a solution would be to have
"both a left and right tilt table saw. But in my single-car garage shop I
"don't have the space.
"
"Do table saws that tilt to both left and right exist?
"
"Thanks!
"
" -- Mark
"

what circumstances are gonna arise that I NEED a frickin' right tilt,
pray tell??? sounds like the mistake I made getting a PC 557 because it
can do 135 degrees, it can do FF biscuits...AND IT'S GOT A SUCKY, LOOSE
FENCE!
KISS.
dave
dave
Griz wrote:

AC-DC, you mean??
I'm told there's a bicycle club on the East Coast, that sponsors
a round-trip ride between Atlantic City, and the nations capital.
They used to sell T-shirts with the motto:
"AC-DC We go both ways"

Yo, Griz,
You say that your only memory of this is from a cursory scan over a picture
and article from about ten years ago in the mid-Eighties. That's impressive.
So, tell me. What was birth like?
Oh, yeah, the saw sounds cool too. You would think that ir would be
preferable to the saw makers to go ahead and re-tool for this once and get
it over with than to have to run to production lines for make both r&l tilt
saws.
:-)

Well, ... I know of at least one! <g> I'm fond of my fingers, I'm really,
um, attached to them. <rim shot> And I want to keep it that way. I always
want the blade tilted away. Don't have room for two TS's so an ambidextrous
model would do nicely.

Yeah! Nice to know I wasn't dreaming.
Since posting I've been wondering about other ways it could be done. 30
years ago I cut hay with a swather. The drive system was based on pulleys &
belts. About the time I was leaving the ranch for college hydraulics took
over, and the belt & pulley swathers went the way of the horse & buggy. The
engine ran a pump and the oil made the thing go. I don't know for sure that
this machine is hydraulic motive power but it's similar in size to ones I
ran that were:
http://www.dieselpage.com/art0119es6.htm
Notice that it's quite a bit more massive than your typical 10" saw blade,
yet oil pressure makes it move. Are there any mechanical engineers hanging
around here? Maybe the best way to get rid of belt & pulley losses on table
saws is to get rid of them. I want a left and right tilt table saw with
variable speed. (My saw turns at 4700 RPM but I want to buy a cheap dado
set that's only rated for 4500 RPM.)
Engineers -- would hydraulics spin a table saw blade?
-- Mark

How about a (former) hydraulics technician?
Yes, hydraulics would turn a saw but I don't think it would be cost
effective or practical. At least not at the speed it would need to turn
a small (10") blade. Maybe in an industrial setting.
A drive system doesn't get much more efficient or simpler than a belt
and two pulleys.

Mark,
My table saw tilts both ways, and I can even run the blade horizontally
above the table. Problem is, this is a home-made prototype that isn't
likely to show up at the Borg any time in the near (or distant) future. I
showed the design to this newsgroup several months ago, as I recall the
feedback was: 1) the saw is too lightweight to compete with full-sized
cabinet saws and 2) it looks difficult to maintain calibration.
If you want to take a look, the pictures are still posted on my web site.
http://home.comcast.net/~stephens.michael/rev2.htm
I've thought about building a beefier prototype that includes some of the
suggestions from this newsgroup, and I'm also thinking about building a
"Dremel" scale version. (Or, I may abandon metal working altogether in
favor of making a new kitchen table for my SWMBO. :)
Cheers.
Mike

Add 3) Too time consuming to change over. I want to grab a crank and give
it a spin. Period.
You all can feel free to steal this idea. Think of a drive shaft
motorcycle. Do a saw like that, but have the shaft pointed down, so the
motor swing would not limit travel. Other advantages would be a fully
enclosed cabinet, making dust collection easy. No belts, only a right angle
drive gear box.

Scott:
The sarcasm is not appreciated but the reason I remember
it is perhaps the same reason you noted it - it being SO
unusual ! As for my memory: As pertains to things WAY
past, like five to ten years +; It is VERY good! SHORT term
memory SUCKS !
I favor right tilt for the usual reasons, BUT, there have
been MANY occasions when a lefty would have been
QUITE helpful. A saw that can claim to be capable of a FULL
forty-six deg. BOTH ways - and I see NO reason to disbelieve
this claim - would be a REAL innovation !
And you are quite right in that one would think 'they' would
see the sense in tooling up to produce ONE saw (truly)
capable of doing both !?
Warmly, Griz
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
wrote:
"ISTR an ad several years ago for a tablesaw that tilted both left and right.
"It sticks out in my mind because I was just starting to enjoy creating
"sawdust in earnest and making useful items from the non-sawdust portions.
";-) For stationary power tools all I had was a Delta single speed scroll
"saw. I checked out a table saw book from my library & read it cover to
"cover. One section discussed (of course ;-) right vs. left tilt saws. One
"phrase sticks in my mind: "Some saws tilt left. Some tilt right. No table
"saws tilt both ways." Shortly thereafter I saw an ad for a saw that tilted
"both ways. It struck me because it was so different from the knowledge I'd
"recently gotten from the book. "Here is a saw that tilts both ways!" It
"was expensive so I requested no info from the manufacturer.
"
"I bought a bench Delta 10" table saw and used it for a couple years.
"Eventually -- and it took quite awhile <g> -- I needed a TS with more
"capability and accuracy. (My inaccuracies were far greater than the limits
"of its direct-drive, marginal fence and small table size. <g>)
"
"I upgraded to the bottom-of-the-line Grizzly contractor saw. It was heaven!
"With a good middle-cost blade I used the stock miter gage to cut a bunch of
"thin cutoffs from the end of a scrap pine 2"x4". They weren't quite thin
"enough to read through, but I did gather up samples and send them in snail
"mail to relatives. <g> In the letters I wrote,
" "This is what my new table saw can do. Notice how even and thin the 2x4"
"cutting is. If it's broken that happened after I dropped it in the mailbox.
"They were one piece when I put them in the envelope. For now the saw is
"much more accurate than I am. Someday, if my woodworking stills improve
"enough, I'd like to get a saw that is able to make cutoffs half as thick as
"these. You'd be able to read through them."
"
"I used the Grizzly a lot. Initially I was completely satisfied with the
"stock fence. But my woodworking skills continued to improve and eventually
"the small, random difference of the clamping of back edge of the fence
"affected the cuts I was making. I bought a used "Shop Fox Original" fence
"on the internet, expecting it to be an upgrade in accuracy from the Grizzly
"stock fence. To make a long story short, IMO the Shop Fox Original
"fence doesn't work nearly as well as the ads would have you believe and I'd
"like to replace it. A good new fence is a major portion of the purchase of
"a new saw, so why not look for a good new or used saw? <G>
"
"So I'm thinking of upgrading from a contractor TS to a "real" table saw, a
"220v contractor saw. Which way do I want it to tilt? Both! If I'm cutting
"an angle from the left side, I want that doggone blade angled away from me.
"If I'm ripping an angled cut from the right side, I still want that blade
"angled away from me. I've had two TS kickback accidents. The first was
"completely my fault -- a cutoff I didn't bother to take off the table got
"into the blade and came spinning back. The second was (probably) also my
"fault and wouldn't have happened if I'd been using a splitter as wide as the
"blade. (The stock splitter is very thin and may not have prevented the
"kickback had it been installed.) The second kickback occurred on July 20,
"2003 (I wrote the date on the ruined piece and keep it in the shop as a
"safety reminder.) The wood grazed my left hand as it spun off the TS and
"hit the freezer behind me. Standing there bleeding on the saw and the
"floor, I counted my fingers and was rejoicing to find 10 of them still
"attached to my hands. More than 3 months later my left hand still has scars
"from the accident. I hope the scars last another 100 years as a safety
"reminder.
"
"I'd really like for the table saw blade to always be tilted away from me
"when making angled cuts. If I had the space a solution would be to have
"both a left and right tilt table saw. But in my single-car garage shop I
"don't have the space.
"
"Do table saws that tilt to both left and right exist?
"
"Thanks!
"
" -- Mark
"

Jim & 'admin':
Re: AC/DC; - Not In THIS Lifetime Baby ! ; ^ )
Warmly - If Likewise Dementedly, Griz
------------------------------------------------------------
wrote:
"ISTR an ad several years ago for a tablesaw that tilted both left and right.
"It sticks out in my mind because I was just starting to enjoy creating
"sawdust in earnest and making useful items from the non-sawdust portions.
";-) For stationary power tools all I had was a Delta single speed scroll
"saw. I checked out a table saw book from my library & read it cover to
"cover. One section discussed (of course ;-) right vs. left tilt saws. One
"phrase sticks in my mind: "Some saws tilt left. Some tilt right. No table
"saws tilt both ways." Shortly thereafter I saw an ad for a saw that tilted
"both ways. It struck me because it was so different from the knowledge I'd
"recently gotten from the book. "Here is a saw that tilts both ways!" It
"was expensive so I requested no info from the manufacturer.
"
"I bought a bench Delta 10" table saw and used it for a couple years.
"Eventually -- and it took quite awhile <g> -- I needed a TS with more
"capability and accuracy. (My inaccuracies were far greater than the limits
"of its direct-drive, marginal fence and small table size. <g>)
"
"I upgraded to the bottom-of-the-line Grizzly contractor saw. It was heaven!
"With a good middle-cost blade I used the stock miter gage to cut a bunch of
"thin cutoffs from the end of a scrap pine 2"x4". They weren't quite thin
"enough to read through, but I did gather up samples and send them in snail
"mail to relatives. <g> In the letters I wrote,
" "This is what my new table saw can do. Notice how even and thin the 2x4"
"cutting is. If it's broken that happened after I dropped it in the mailbox.
"They were one piece when I put them in the envelope. For now the saw is
"much more accurate than I am. Someday, if my woodworking stills improve
"enough, I'd like to get a saw that is able to make cutoffs half as thick as
"these. You'd be able to read through them."
"
"I used the Grizzly a lot. Initially I was completely satisfied with the
"stock fence. But my woodworking skills continued to improve and eventually
"the small, random difference of the clamping of back edge of the fence
"affected the cuts I was making. I bought a used "Shop Fox Original" fence
"on the internet, expecting it to be an upgrade in accuracy from the Grizzly
"stock fence. To make a long story short, IMO the Shop Fox Original
"fence doesn't work nearly as well as the ads would have you believe and I'd
"like to replace it. A good new fence is a major portion of the purchase of
"a new saw, so why not look for a good new or used saw? <G>
"
"So I'm thinking of upgrading from a contractor TS to a "real" table saw, a
"220v contractor saw. Which way do I want it to tilt? Both! If I'm cutting
"an angle from the left side, I want that doggone blade angled away from me.
"If I'm ripping an angled cut from the right side, I still want that blade
"angled away from me. I've had two TS kickback accidents. The first was
"completely my fault -- a cutoff I didn't bother to take off the table got
"into the blade and came spinning back. The second was (probably) also my
"fault and wouldn't have happened if I'd been using a splitter as wide as the
"blade. (The stock splitter is very thin and may not have prevented the
"kickback had it been installed.) The second kickback occurred on July 20,
"2003 (I wrote the date on the ruined piece and keep it in the shop as a
"safety reminder.) The wood grazed my left hand as it spun off the TS and
"hit the freezer behind me. Standing there bleeding on the saw and the
"floor, I counted my fingers and was rejoicing to find 10 of them still
"attached to my hands. More than 3 months later my left hand still has scars
"from the accident. I hope the scars last another 100 years as a safety
"reminder.
"
"I'd really like for the table saw blade to always be tilted away from me
"when making angled cuts. If I had the space a solution would be to have
"both a left and right tilt table saw. But in my single-car garage shop I
"don't have the space.
"
"Do table saws that tilt to both left and right exist?
"
"Thanks!
"
" -- Mark
"

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