Michael Vick Says He’s One Of The NFL’s Best QB’s, But Is He

Michael Vick was interviewed after doing an event for the Humane Society at Simon Gratz High in North Philadelphia this week and he was asked about the Eagles showing some interest in Peyton Manning.

“I don’t know how true it is, and I don’t care,” Vick said. “I feel no threat within my position. You can bring in the best quarterback around, and I’m going to play my best. I’m one of the best.”

I have no problem with Vick expressing himself and showing self-confidence. He should believe that he’s one of the best quarterbacks in the league, but I starting wondering where exactly does he rate amongst the quarterbacks in the National Football League.

Vick played like an MVP candidate through most of the 2010 season, but in 2011, the numbers weren’t there and neither was the performance. He turned the ball over at an alarming rate and was unable to stay healthy because of his daring style of play. The key going into 2012 is whether Vick can stay healthy and play the quarterback position with the proficiency he did in the early 2010 season.

I started thinking about which quarterbacks I would rate ahead of him.

I think there are clearly six quarterbacks ahead of Vick; Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Ben Roethlisberger, and Phillip Rivers. Matt Ryan, Tony Romo and Joe Flacco are very close to Vick, but it’s arguable whether they’re better or not.

121 Comments for “Michael Vick Says He’s One Of The NFL’s Best QB’s, But Is He”

where is eli, he gets no respect from you gcobb, two time super bowl mvp,,and listening to your show last night that clown adrian said he has taken every snap since being a starter, that is impressive if true, help me out here paulman, is that true?

Next Tier of QB’s
Rivers,Ryan,Flacco,Vick,Romo,Schuab (when healthy) have all had nice careers to this point, but have not taken their teams to the Top or even performed well in the Post-Season and haven’t even goten to the big Game yet..

Next Tier of Young QB’s who may be able to take their Teams to the Top in the next few years(Matt Stafford,Cam Newton, Andrew Dalton)

Now this is Article I’ve been waiting for… Let’s go Vick haters and Mr. Giants Fan… I can’t wait to see the posts for this one. But make sure you know what you’re talking about before you disparage one of our leaders because if you don’t…

@Jakedog…”where is eli, he gets no respect from you gcobb, two time super bowl mvp,,and listening to your show last night that clown adrian said he has taken every snap since being a starter, that is impressive if true, help me out here paulman, is that true?” Really, you want kudos for a division rival on an Eagles’ blog… This is Philly sports not NYC sports….

I would put Vick at the Top of the “Exciting QB List” but that doesn’t translate to Victories and when you take out the magical ride of his 5-6 weeks in the Fall of 2010 and look over his 9-10 Year Career.. His play has been too erractic with too many turnovers and poor decisions to rank him as an “Elite NFL QB” in my opinion…

@Paulman.. I can agree with your rational for rankings and wanting to go with winners with the exception of Tom Brady. I will always look at the Patriots with an asterisk beside their name because of spygate as well as the number of rules changes that have been made to accommodate their team and their QB and the fact that the league destroyed the evidence. With that being said I’d put Rodgers at #1 and reserve judgement on Brady.

I slightly disagree with our second tier in that Vick is ahead of Ryan and Flacco but I will concede that he is behind Rivers.

Having said that… Vick is definitely top 10 in this league and that makes him one of the best.

lionsden, its a glaring omission, thats all, eli was asked the same question last year, gave similar answer, maybe vick will live up to his confidence level like manning did, and its one thing to be a fan, quite another to be ignorant or too biased

paulman has spoken the words of a true football fan. Not getting caught up in the hype of the team but focusing on the REALITY of their player. Vick had like he said a few good weeks one year and people shot him to the top. His career number show a average QB and that is me saying that becasue i am a vick fan but numbers dont lie…… Buddy boy really sucks if it isnt for him running. I read someone commenting on how well he extends a play. Holding the football 9 seconds can be dangerous and 95% of the time he is 15 yards backward for a loss. Seen that to many times, Go get yourself a Damn QB the only reason they brough thim in anyway was to steal the headlines fro the phillies. Tell me im wrong, since when has Mike Vick been considered a West coast passing QB???????? Get a real QB and stop playing your going to cut him after next year anyway because thats what they do, plus any wont be here so.. Do whats right and get a Qb.

If I were indeed a giants fan, then why on earth would I slag Vick? I’d be all, “you should keep Vick!! He’s awesome. Such a great playmaker. Hope he’s on your team for a long time.

Nothing Giants fan wants more is Vick at the helm of the Birds and Romo at the head of the Boys, because he knows how those stories always end. Vick and Romo at the helm of the two biggest rivals pretty much guarantees NYG success! Redskins don;t count because right now they’re the redskins….at least not yet.

TO figure out where Vick ranks, ask yourself the simple question…which teams would trade their starters for Vick str8 up, and which wouldn;t.

Qb’s better than vick: Rodgers,ELi,Brady,Peyton,BIg Ben,Brees,Philip Rivers,Ryan and TONY ROMO. Yes I said it TONY ROMO is also better check the numbers the numbers don’t lie. In the words of Jay-z, men and women lie numbers don’t.

Phils Trade Pither Tim Worley, OF Domonic Brown and a player to be named later to the NY Mets for 3B David Wright (I called this deal back in Dec/January) Wright will play 3B and Phils will move Polanco to 2B (as I also called) This is a great move for the Phils, Wright’s Career Stats batting at Citizens Bank Park are off the Charts.. Hopefully he can remain healthy and is only 28 Years old and Polanco can play 2B as Utley’s situation plays out (I personally think Utley’s career is over) and this Trade is probably further signals that the Phils don’t feel that strong about Utley’s long-term return which I am happy for GM Amaro to dinally come to his senses and address the 2B/3B Situation.. I would have preferred them signing 3B Aramis Ramirez in Free-Angecy, but this is the next best move they could have made

I am surprised Vinnie that you way overvalued VIck and what Teams would be interested …

The Miami Dolphins and Arizona Cardinals would be about it..
Bucs have a good Young QB
Vikings,Titans,Jax all invested 1st Round picks last year in their QB position
As long as Holmgrem is the boss of the BRowns, he would have no interest in Vick who is too risky with the Turnover and not disciplined eough..
OAkland & KC have experienced QB who are highly paids on their teams already and would have to move them first before considering taking on another big Contract as Vicks..
NY Jets just extended QB Sanchez and signed Tebow, no interest in Vick..

Vick is an ok quarterback, he has two playoff wins under his belt(Packers,Rams). But can he get it done in the big game, I mean can he make the big pass when the game is on the line.Can he make that two minute game winning drive(LIKE ELI). I just don’t know.

Pdiddy, those Playoff Wins with the Falcons were years ago, when VIck was at his athletic prime and is proabably not very relavant to his situation in 2012 whjere he is going to have to depend on his smarts, decision making and accuracay.. These are things he has not done successfully over a consistent peeiod of time over his career, but it’s the only way he will take this Eagle Team to the Championship on his 32 year old body and legs, gone are the days that Vick could take over with his legs.. He will have his moments nad big plays, but over time, he needs to prove to himself,teammates nad coaches that he can beat you with his arm and until he does, the questions will still linger on whether he has the smarts,patience and good decision making skils to do so.. He still has this to prove to anyone who follows the Sport

Vick has to grow up as a quarterback, he has to study his craft and at 32 I am not sure he can. All that running around crap has to stop, he has to learn what the D is going to do pre snap like all the great quarterbacks do. Running every once in a while would be fine, but it can no longer be his first instinct. Make the proper reads and throw the dam ball where it needs to be. He did show a glimpse of what he could do in 2010 but it was too short lived. We shall see

I am not a Vick hater and wish him the best because when he plays well, the Eagles are damn near impossible to beat, but he has to play well and consistent and smart for them to win.. I want to see him elevate his game and his leadership.. and it’s not about being tough and playing hurt (which hurts your team) it’s about being a leader, keeping the unit together, getting in the faces of players who are not putting out on every play.. grab the bull by the horns and say let’s go.. I think he’s been a little too nice to his teammates a little too often and would like to see him fired up a little bit more which the time calls for it..

Now I want everyone to pay attention to the exchange that is about to take place between myself and the number one Giants fan on this site knows as vinnietheevictor.

Now I want you guys to pay attention to the fact that Mr. Giants fan claims he is a fan of the Eagles because he wants to get rid of Vick. Even thought our coach says “look… were happy with Mike… I mean.. you can ask everyone around the league except the giants right.”

I’m sure some of you have seen the evaluation in this link but in case you haven’t please check it out. Here’s a couple of excerpts from the article that I think Mr. Giants fan will find particularly enjoyable:

“Take a casual glance at the numbers, pretty much any of them, and you’d be inclined to think Vick isn’t playing at the same level as he did in 2010.

Still, PFF founder Neil Hornsby included him on his recent Pro Bowl Cheat Sheet along with Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers in the NFC, and ahead of such quarterbacks as Eli Manning and Matthew Stafford.

Let’s have a look at why that might have been …

Vick: The Interceptions

So the Eagles signal caller has thrown just nine touchdowns to eight picks, hardly impressive. Looking closer at the interceptions tells a slightly different story, however…

Overall, on his eight interceptions, Vick has a -3.0 grade. He can be faulted for the interception against Atlanta, the poor throw against San Francisco, and the force over the middle against Buffalo, but much of the blame for the remaining interceptions has to go on his receivers for dropping passes and his offensive line for failing to protect him.

As is often the case with interceptions, they can be misleading. PFF’s Nathan Jahnke wrote an article to help prove that. So while Vick has been unfortunate to suffer the eight interceptions this year, he was also fortunate to only have six in 2010.

The Case for Vick

A couple of statistics stand out when analyzing Vick. The first is simply how good he is at avoiding negative plays. While he’s been under pressure on 40.3% of his drop backs, he’s only been sacked an amazing 10.4% of the time. Unsurprisingly, his three NFC competitors don’t stack up. They’ve been sacked 20% of the time (Manning), 18.8% (Stafford) and 17.2% (Newton). This ability to avoid sacks has enabled Vick to make some truly astonishing plays.

The other thing that stands out with Vick is his elite intermediate and deep accuracy. Overall on passes aimed 10 yards downfield and beyond, he’s earned a +22.5 grade. Looking at the numbers, on 25 attempts beyond 20 yards, he has 12 completions with three drops at an accuracy rate of 60%. That mark leads the league and is better than both Brees and Rodgers. It’s this ability to make stick throws in Andy Reid’s vertical west coast offense that’s resulted in a grade of +1.0 or higher on 21 of 249 passes (8.4%). In contrast, Manning, who has an impressive six touchdowns to two interceptions on passes beyond 20 yards, has just 10 plays of +1.0 on 225 passes (4.4%) accumulating most of his yardage on simpler attempts. In general, Vick’s 16.9% of negative plays and 26.9% positives stack up well with his competitors.

Of the Eagles’ losses, Vick has had them driving for the game-wining or game-tying score in two of them. Against San Francsico, Jeremy Maclin fumbled when the Eagles were in field goal range. He had also driven the team into scoring range a further three times only to see Ronnie Brown make one of the dumbest plays ever and his rookie kicker miss two relatively short field goals. We have already seen how a second-half comeback against the Bills was only stymied by Jason Avant. It’s difficult to fault Vick for not managing to engineer fourth quarter victories such as Manning’s against Arizona and Stafford’s against Minnesota when he’s been let down in key situations by his teammates.

The Case against Vick

In the Eagles’ other two losses, the Eagles have been leading in the fourth quarter before Vick was forced out of the game with injury… So far this year, being forced to leave games hasn’t been the result of reckless play, although that might be more the result of luck than judgement.

Vick: the Conclusion

So while Michael Vick may not have the best numbers this season, he’s playing better than ever. His improvement as a pocket passer since his time in Atlanta is simply astounding, even more so when you consider he spent two years in prison.”

I know this was long and yes I left out some things because I can’t post the entire evaluation but see for yourself… This article address the negatives and the positives of Michael Vick the QB and pulls no punches.

Now Mr. Giant’s Fan I DARE YOU to say you are more accurate than one of the most if not the most highly regarded pro football blogs on the net. I truly dare you. But once again I have a feeling you will prove to be what I have been calling you all along.

Shout out to my man Pdiddy…”In the words of Jay-z, men and women lie numbers don’t.” You hit it right on the head….

I know you guys remember the locker room interview Vick did last when DGunner asked him about him sliding and not taking all those hits? He said He PLAYED THAT WAY ALL HIS LIFE AND HE ISNT BOTHERED BY GETTING HIT. How can an athlete who done something for over 20 years of his life change what made him what he is. He will not and can not change the way he plays because he uses his running ability to hide the fact that he does not have a high football IQ. He will always be a turn over machine especially if you call 35 to 40 pass plays a game. Its also The coaches fault. Instead of getting a real QB he keeps bringing in Gimmick QB’s that win games but cant beat the Better teams when they are hot. And it will continue next season.

Andy Reid: “look… were happy with Mike… I mean.. you can ask everyone around the league except the Giants right.” Here’s why…

Ladies and Gentlemen… I present to you statistics with full context:

Take a casual glance at the numbers, pretty much any of them, and you’d be inclined to think Vick isn’t playing at the same level as he did in 2010.
Still, PFF founder Neil Hornsby included him on his recent Pro Bowl Cheat Sheet along with Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers in the NFC, and ahead of such quarterbacks as Eli Manning and Matthew Stafford.
Let’s have a look at why that might have been …

Vick: The Interceptions

So the Eagles signal caller has thrown just nine touchdowns to eight picks, hardly impressive. Looking closer at the interceptions tells a slightly different story, however…

Overall, on his eight interceptions, Vick has a -3.0 grade. He can be faulted for the interception against Atlanta, the poor throw against San Francisco, and the force over the middle against Buffalo, but much of the blame for the remaining interceptions has to go on his receivers for dropping passes and his offensive line for failing to protect him.
As is often the case with interceptions, they can be misleading. PFF’s Nathan Jahnke wrote an article to help prove that. So while Vick has been unfortunate to suffer the eight interceptions this year, he was also fortunate to only have six in 2010.

The Case for Vick

A couple of statistics stand out when analyzing Vick. The first is simply how good he is at avoiding negative plays. While he’s been under pressure on 40.3% of his drop backs, he’s only been sacked an amazing 10.4% of the time. Unsurprisingly, his three NFC competitors don’t stack up. They’ve been sacked 20% of the time (Manning), 18.8% (Stafford) and 17.2% (Newton). This ability to avoid sacks has enabled Vick to make some truly astonishing plays.

The other thing that stands out with Vick is his elite intermediate and deep accuracy. Overall on passes aimed 10 yards downfield and beyond, he’s earned a +22.5 grade. Looking at the numbers, on 25 attempts beyond 20 yards, he has 12 completions with three drops at an accuracy rate of 60%. That mark leads the league and is better than both Brees and Rodgers. It’s this ability to make stick throws in Andy Reid’s vertical west coast offense that’s resulted in a grade of +1.0 or higher on 21 of 249 passes (8.4%). In contrast, Manning, who has an impressive six touchdowns to two interceptions on passes beyond 20 yards, has just 10 plays of +1.0 on 225 passes (4.4%) accumulating most of his yardage on simpler attempts. In general, Vick’s 16.9% of negative plays and 26.9% positives stack up well with his competitors.

Of the Eagles’ losses, Vick has had them driving for the game-wining or game-tying score in two of them. Against San Francsico, Jeremy Maclin fumbled when the Eagles were in field goal range. He had also driven the team into scoring range a further three times only to see Ronnie Brown make one of the dumbest plays ever and his rookie kicker miss two relatively short field goals. We have already seen how a second-half comeback against the Bills was only stymied by Jason Avant. It’s difficult to fault Vick for not managing to engineer fourth quarter victories such as Manning’s against Arizona and Stafford’s against Minnesota when he’s been let down in key situations by his teammates.

The Case against Vick

In the Eagles’ other two losses, the Eagles have been leading in the fourth quarter before Vick was forced out of the game with injury… So far this year, being forced to leave games hasn’t been the result of reckless play, although that might be more the result of luck than judgement.

Vick: the Conclusion

So while Michael Vick may not have the best numbers this season, he’s playing better than ever. His improvement as a pocket passer since his time in Atlanta is simply astounding, even more so when you consider he spent two years in prison.”

I know this was long and yes I left out some things because I can’t post the entire evaluation but see for yourself at profootballfocus dot com under players. This evaluation address the negatives and the positives of Michael Vick the QB and pulls no punches.

Now Mr. Giant’s Fan I DARE YOU to say you are more accurate than one of the most if not the most highly regarded pro football blogs on the net. I truly dare you. But once again I have a feeling you will prove to be what I have been calling you all along.

Shout out to my man Pdiddy…”In the words of Jay-z, men and women lie numbers don’t.” You hit it right on the head….

Yes he is one of the best I going to keep this clean for Holy week but it seems GCobb is fixated on disputing everything Mike does or says, get a life Cobb you seem to not be able to control your jealousy Vick try writing a meaningful story like the DRAFT!!!!!!!! Dan Marino never won a SB but he has a few records, Michael Vick has just about as many records that he has broken than most of these white qbs all he needs is a ring, They will never give him the credit he deserves on the field nor will you.

GCobb I have a quesition for you, where would a fan rate you on a list? You tend to be very critical of everything Reid, Vick and the entire Eagles team. Fact is you played for the Eagles, didn’t recieve a SuperBowl win, but yet you complain about each and every player that comes to this team and not accomplish the highest goal, which is the Superbowl. Just wondering how many records did you break…………………my guess none, but you criticize everyone else.

Everytime Mike Vick makes a comment you attempt to be little or make an issue out of it. What did you expect or want him to say, “he was afraid Manning would take his job”. He said he was one of the best qb’s in this league, he had every right to make that comment simply because he is one of the best in the league. And for all of you who have taken the time to make a “list”, not one of the names you mentioned could do what Vick has done, meaning being out of the leagues for three years and make the comeback that he’s made. Fact is prior to signing with the Eagles Cobb and other reporters were saying he would never get those skills back, he fooled them all. Manning, Brees, Rogers etc have all be in the league non stop with the same teams for years, Vick has been with the Eagles going on the third year, the first year he was the third qb (no offseason) second year backup qb to Kolb (no training with starters) third year very minimal offseason, but now you and some of these folks on these blogs say he has to win the Superbowl or he has to go. You’re all full of it, especially you Cobb, you have a big mouth on that radio show and a big mouth with these articles.

Michael Vick hasn’t won any playoff games… the Atlanta Falcons won two with him at QB and haven’t won a single one since he’s been gone despite having home field advantage the first year. In his second year back in the league he helped the Eagles win the division despite not coming into that year as the starter before losing to the eventual SB champion GB Packers.

I don’t give a hoot to how many playoff he has won. Hell you people sit and complain, the man hasn’t had a full offseason with the starters since 2006, no training, of any kind. I will stand by what I said your Brady’s Bree’s etc could never make a comeback under those circumstances, regardless to how much you want to pretend they are so great. Some of you forgot that Kolb was your starter in 2010 not Vick, had it not been for Michael Vick you would have certainly had two back to back losing seasons instead of just this one. A lost season that you want to blame him for, when every player on that team had a little to do with this losing season. Now people like GCobb and others want to say this is a make it or break it year for Vick, if he doesn’t win a Superbowl, as I said some of you folks and Cobb are full of it.

Peace….Vick has had “no training, of any kind” with the Eagles??? He’s been practicing with the team for 3 years. Starting for the better part of 2. How many more years does he need?

Now on to Vick’s publicist, Lionsden. Man you really go to great lengths! All that work for a guy who won’t even be on the roster next year! (do you get paid btw?) You should really ask for a percentage from the guy, you really have to dig deep!

For every Neil Hornsby article you want to quote I’ll drop a KC Joyner who mid way through 2010 wrote an article (much maligned in here of course) about how Vick’s “new” play over the first half of the year was an illusion, he was still making the sameold mistakes, but Ds hadn’t caught up as he was a bit of a suprise. Said Vick’s #s would return to the norm if he continued – they did. Or Schatz and the boys at Football Outsiders who pretty much have Vick ranked in the bottom 3rd of the league every week with mathematical metrics that will make your PFF buddy look like he’s still in grade 3. Or read any article on the very popular Walter Football….check that…don’t go there. Lets just say I’m pretty kind compared to him….and on and on. (look them up yourself)

Besides…what kind of ridiulousness was Hornsby spouting….Vick avoids negative plays?? WTF are he/you using as a definition of a negative play?

Fact: Vick has put the ball on the turf 21x over the past 2 seasons. More than any other player in the league
Fact: Vick has fumbled 57x over his last 5 seasons as a starting QB. 57!
Fact: Vick has been in the top 10 in interception percentage for his entire career (for all but 5 games last year)
Fact: Vick had a % sack rate of 5.2% (% time sacked when attempting to pass – scrambles eliminated) good from 13th in the league worse than Eli, but better than Stafford (played less than 2 full seasons) and Newton (a rookie). Well hallelujah! Vick takes less sacks then a guy with under 30 games and a rookie!! I’m impressed!!!!! (really – this is what you’re rolling with to try to prove how good Vick is?????)

Vick, is absolutely and unequivocally the king of game destroying negative plays.

Listen Lionsden, instead of relying on someone else do the math for you, why don’t you just head over to pro-football reference yourself and do your own research? I understand that math might be a little hard for you, but you should try examining things on your own, rather than constantly reference others. You never know, you might suprise even yourself!

Vick was brought in as a publicity stunt by Lurie to take headlines from the Phillies.
I don’t question his abilities nor do I question his heart as he made it thru a couple years at Leavenworth…But if playoffs are the goal, consider his play in the NFC title game vs. the Birds…How could he be mentioned as a ‘top QB’?

KC JOYNER???!!! Really??? KC JOYNER??? By using KC Joyner you are siting a source that is controversial at best and not very reliable. Throughout the blogosphere… KC Joyner is a JOKE Just like you are on this site!!! Here is one of the more interesting retorts to the “article” you are siting… it comes from Bleeding Green Nation:

K.C. Joyner claims that Michael Vick has made a “tremendous volume of bad decisions this season.” How does he define “bad decisions,” you might ask? He explains:
For those unfamiliar with this metric, a bad decision is defined as when a quarterback makes a mistake with the ball that leads to a turnover or a near turnover (e.g. a dropped interception, a fumble that is recovered by the offense, etc.). Common instances of this include forcing passes into coverage, staring at receivers or not seeing zone defenders in a passing lane.
Turnovers – Obviously, we all know Michael Vick has yet to throw any interceptions this season. He has fumbled three times, losing one. So on the year, he has one turnover. Just one.
Near turnovers – By Joyner’s count:
15 of (Vick’s) passes landed in the near-interception category (a near interception being defined as a pass that reached a defender’s catching frame but was not picked off).
Here’s my extremely well-thought-out answer to that one. (Clearing throat and pulling out my notes)… Bullshit.
Staring at receivers / not seeing zone defenders in a passing lane – Ah, so Joyner knows exactly what Vick is looking at. Interesting. I know I can’t see through Vick’s facemask visor, but apparently KC Joyner can.
Michael Vick has played amazing, almost mistake-free football all season long. His decision making has been nothing short of tremendous. One of my new pet peeves of football coverage is this new trend of guys that position themselves as some sort of numbers experts, that give themselves names like “The Football Scientist.” Because K.C. Joyner counts “15 passes that landed in the near-interception category,” are we to take that as gospel? Well, let’s see them, Joyner. Put some game film behind that claim and let’s see what you’ve got. I think we’d find that on the majority of those passes, Joyner is reaching. If you’re going to disregard a player’s incredible season as “lucky,” at least put some proof into your work.

Giant’s Fan you are a FRAUD AND A JOKE. And please don’t get me started on football outsiders… with emphasis on OUTSIDERS! LOL!!!!
What the Fuck is DVOA (Defense-adjusted Value Over Average) and DYAR (sorry… I can’t find what this is short for).
These dudes are former wall street hacks that couldn’t make it with the big boys… and undoubtedly some of your best buddies. On top of that they have issues with their on bullshit formulas and tell you that in many cases their formulas are LIMITED!
Again, I want to reiterate… Giants fan aka vinnietheevictor YOU ARE A FRAUD AND A BULLSHIT ARTIST.

“7. His intellectual style. I make my living by reviewing stats and other metrics, so I’m all for this approach, but even I don’t want to make the game quite as intellectual as Manning seems to want to at times. Source SB Nation

Per KC Joyner: Mike Wallace is better than Calvin Johnson

Here’s his basic argument. Mike Wallace is more productive on a per target basis than Calvin Johnson, therefore Mike Wallace is better than Calvin Johnson. However, there’s a missing link in there that Joyner fails to mention or prove. Source – Bleeding Green Nation

Per KC Joyner: The Left Tackle Position is Overrated.

This book is not worth reading for a stat-head because of its cursory reasoning and sloppy deduction. For a more general football fan who merely wants to read opinions… you could do worse. This book in many ways reads less like a book and more like several blog entries, drive by opinions that never fully delve into the heart of the matter. From a wit like Bill Simmons such reading is a pleasure, but KC Joyner lacks the chops to sustain his readers purely with his force of personality.

This is a mediocre work, lacking in any real originality or value. If you enjoy reading about football, you may well enjoy this book. If you’re looking for something more, look elsewhere. Source – Amazon dot com

Note from the author: This is where it gets most difficult to assess. I think Romo is better than Vick, but Romo’s got two complete wide receivers and Vick has two guys who struggle in certain situations.

So far that’s two of the top NFL blogs… you need more???

Hey Giants Fan… did I mention the fact that you don’t know what you are talking about?

“Vick, is absolutely and unequivocally the king of game destroying negative plays.” I’m sorry but you’re wrong and the most reliable NFL blogs say you are wrong. Let me re-post this again for you:

A couple of statistics stand out when analyzing Vick. The first is simply how good he is at avoiding negative plays. While he’s been under pressure on 40.3% of his drop backs, he’s only been sacked an amazing 10.4% of the time. Unsurprisingly, his three NFC competitors don’t stack up

And this one too:

The other thing that stands out with Vick is his elite intermediate and deep accuracy. Overall on passes aimed 10 yards downfield and beyond, he’s earned a +22.5 grade. Looking at the numbers, on 25 attempts beyond 20 yards, he has 12 completions with three drops at an accuracy rate of 60%. That mark leads the league and is better than both Brees and Rodgers. It’s this ability to make stick throws in Andy Reid’s vertical west coast offense that’s resulted in a grade of +1.0 or higher on 21 of 249 passes (8.4%).

I’m sorry this hurts your feelings but Pro Football Focus is more respected than any and all of your sources…

“Or read any article on the very popular Walter Football…” This is the most shocking… you are referencing a site that has Wes Welker as the MOST OVERRATED PLAYER IN 2011. But take a look at what this guy says about Welker: Welker is just a slot receiver. He’s a really, really good slot receiver… There’s no denying that Welker is tremendous in New England’s system… He’s very smart and crafty, and he’s a great guy to have on a team, despite what hot supermodels may think…

The fact that you site Walter Football is interesting to me because back in the good ol’ days when you were calling DJax a punk and a thug you claimed that a) DJax would be gone (how’d that prediction work out) and b) DJax was less important to his team than Wes Welker thus making DJax more expendable, but when I read your buddy at WalterFootball he say’s you’re wrong…. I don’t know what to make of it.

Mr. Giants Fan… your visceral attitude towards Michael Vick and constant crusade to disparage him is for one reason and one reason only… You are a Bigot!

What QB can perform at his best when his head coach puts him in steak underwear and feeds him to the lions.??

First Andy Reid changes offensive line coaches and gets Vick Killed at the end of the season and all of preseason.

Then he refuses to get Vick protection on his blind side, with a collection of bums and injured players protecting Vick.

Then it takes half a season for Andy Reid to make the proper personnel changes and for the offensive line to learn “Old Gizzar’s” system.

Then there’s the Andy Reid “dial a pass” play calling. It let’s every defensive end in the league ignore the run and pin his ears back and make a B-line for the Quarterback.

No need to pay attention to the play action fake. It’s a waste of time. The offense stunk in the 4th Quarter because the defense knows that even with the best RB in the league, Andy will not run him in the 4th quarter.

Andy Reid is a pathetic predictable coach and easy to defeat when matched against a coach of equal intelligence or talent.

Just to summarize your point. Outsiders and Joyner are no good, but PFF is boss – because you like to read it. Joyner and Outsiders are shit because they make things up, but PFF is $$ because they do the same thing, but you like the results of their analysis…like +22.5 grade means anything.

You made a simple statement. n “Vick is a top 10 QB”

BTW…enjoy how you convieniently left out over 1/2 of the negative things in the PFF article you were referencing. Selective editing I suppose.

I asked a simple Question, “Find me one. One area where Vick was top 10 last year”

Again…forget others…head over to pro football reference yourself and knock yourself out. Get back to me when you’re done searching, because the only top 10 you’re going to find are fumbles and interception %

But I understand. In your world, fumbles and interceptions (of which Vick has no peer) are not negative plays.

57 fumbles in less than 5 full seasons. 3.3%int rate in college. 3.5%int rate with Atl. 3.3% rate in Philly. But its everyone else’s fault.

“I know this was long and yes I left out some things because I can’t post the entire evaluation but see for yourself at profootballfocus dot com under players. This evaluation address the negatives and the positives of Michael Vick the QB and pulls no punches.” This is me quoting myself… If I were following your lead I would first post inaccurate incomplete stats and then not give the source of my information. But hey… what was the summary of the PFF analysis? Riiiiiigggggghhhhhttt.

“Just to summarize your point. Outsiders and Joyner are no good, but PFF is boss – because you like to read it. Joyner and Outsiders are shit because they make things up, but PFF is $$ because they do the same thing, but you like the results of their analysis…like +22.5 grade means anything.”

The experts rank PFF and NFL Gridiron above your buddies…. not me. The experts and many observers say your buddies are full of shit and unreliable. This is consistent with my approach when smacking down your other foolish arguments. I always rely on the judgment of the most respected and accomplished football experts. They just don’t happen to agree with you and all of your non-sense. They are all much more informed than you.

In the words of PFF one of the most respected football blogs on the net: statistics don’t always tell the entire story. But this is also consistent with what I’ve said to you from day one. By the way, allot of NFL players say the same thing.

Here’s interesting bit of information… Since Vick joined the Eagles The Eagles are 7-1 in the division when he is the starter and 6-0 when he has finished the game.

Adam Schefter: “name one bonefide receiver Vick has played with (while in Atlanta). NFL network segment Top ten running QBs

Jamie Dukes: “when you only throw the ball 20 times a game and your QB is under pressure 14 times and sacked 3… how do you expect your QB to flourish?” NFL network segment: top ten running qb’s

Terence Moore: “It be came frustrating for Vick year after year… they never got him any help.” NFL Network segment: top ten running qb’s

I don’t say it’s everyone else’s fault… it’s just that the top journalists and experts say a large portion of it wasn’t his fault. But he’s not totally without blame for some of his shortcomings, but then again who is?

I asked one question and got a lot of bs for an answer so I will ask the question again. Out of all the qb’s you folks have listed, which one could be away from the league for 3yrs, not having any full offseason training with the starters for 5yrs, have the same comeback as Vick. I don’t think Bree’s, Manning, or any of the others could do that, not one.

I see you have Eli Manning on the list above Vick, when in fact just last season Eli broke records in throwing interceptions. Fact is last season 2010, most folks (if not all) were saying the same thing about Eli. As far as Brady is concerned I don’t take away the fact that he is a good qb, however, I will always wonder just how good, simply because the Patriots are cheaters, I personally don’t trust a cheater. I am sure you have noticed that anytime a defensive player get close to Brady its a penalty.

“The experts rank PFF and NFL Gridiron above your buddies…. not me. The experts and many observers say your buddies are full of shit and unreliable. ”

Oh, well then. As long as the “experts” rank those sites, then it must be so. Didn’t realize there was some exclusive star chamber of NFL blog evaluaters out there – of which clearly you are an exclusive member!! Congratulations! And the main criteria for a good site – if their conclusions match the beliefs of one important, though horrendously underpaid, Vick publiscist, Lionsden! If Lionsden disagrees, its crap!!

BTW – still waiting for you to produce, one, just one instance, where Vick was in the top 10 in any QBing category….because, I can guarantee, if he was top 10 (in anythng), you’d be plastering this board with the #s.

“it’s just that the top journalists and experts say a large portion of it wasn’t his fault” Exactly what part of 57 fumbles over 5 seasons isn’t his fault?

Its all about constants and variables. When a guy has basically the exact same int % over both college and pro careers, with diff coaches, diff teams, diff WRs, diff O-line, but his numbers always stay the same, at some point you’ve got to look at who the constant in in the equation.

He’s inaccurate. He’s a turnover machine. He gets hurt every year. He’s small. He has a me first attitude. We’ll be better when we’ve moved on from this failed reclamation project.

Just like I thought I will never get an answer to the question, just a bunch of bs runarounds. Yet what I don’t understand if folks feel he’s a turnover machine, can’t read defenses, etc, and can’t get it done, why do you bother to root for a team with a qb that you already know can’t it done? That makes little sense to me. I guess because he is small, inaccurate, turnover machine, gets injured a lot is the reason why defense coordinators have sleepless nights when they have to face him, I guess that is why Jerry Jones said he was afraid of him.

I just wonder how many Eagles fans actually post on these blogs, from what I read I don’t think there are very many.

@peace…I don’t have a problem with MV. He is a talented player who has had a sporatic history of sustaining a high level of play, but he is the leader on this team and they all seem to look to him as their leader.

Your statement regarding fans…specifically…”why do you bother to root for a team with a qb that you already know can’t it done?” is pretty stupid….stop whining. Unless you are 10 years old, chances are you have rooted for the team for decades..20, 30, or some 40 plus years you have rooted for the birds. You are a fan of the team….players come and go…..some are better than others and some you may identify with and others you may wish they were not on your team…..but in the end, you are a fan of the TEAM….how is that hard to understand???

Not everyone is going to agree on what players are the best, but they are all still fans of the TEAM…stop whining, you are giving Eagles fan a bad name acting like such a baby.

@vinniethevictor, sorry but I let this one get by me. If you read my comment again what I said was Vick didn’t have any training with the starters since 2006, in which he has’nt, this will actually be his first full offseason with the starters since 2006. He was out of the league from 2006-09, came to the Eagles in 2009, no offseason training at all, in 2010, he didn’t practice with the starters, it was worthless azz Kevin Kolb, in 2011 there was the lockout no full offseason again with the starters. What part of that can you dispute, and again name a qb in this league that will be able to have the same success without recieving the proper training, in that amount of time, just one would be sufficient.

peace – that 1050 post was perfect – same could be said for why certain people come on here and seem to take great pleasure in tearing apart the owner, the president, the GM, the head coach, any player that dares to get drafted and not perform at pro bowl levels within 1 to 4 games, players that get injured, players that dare offer an opinion about fans..

or better yet – as if the rest of us were not painfully aware of the fact – seem to take great joy in pointing out the fact we haven’t won a SB -

but, not that my thought matters, Vinnie the V is actually one of the smarter, more intelligent EAGLE fans on this site – I am reading his mind here a bit – but I think he comes from the postion that you have all these folks that clearly have very little knowledge of the game of football – I would hazard a guess that the majority did not even start for their varisty HS teams – let alone coach – and there is nothing wrong with that – but then they come onto a blog after watching an ESPN sports show and offer ‘opinions’ like they are facts… and most of the ‘opinions’ tend to fall into the negative or derogatory about the eagles -

but then with Vick.. Vinnie uses stats, facts, and history to show that maybe the startng point of the ‘opinions’ as to how to win a SB should start there – and people go ape shit – its funnier to roast fat Abdy Ried who has taken teams to the playoffs 10 times, 5 NFCC games and the SB – and say ‘we can’t win it with him’ because – but its NOT ok to look at Vick’s history and say the exact same thing…

But vinnie is a big boy and gives it back in spades

sorry if too long a response – I like your attitude – VIck is the QB – Ried is the HC and Castillo is the DC – it is what it is -

were you around at the end of last year wen we had folks posting they hoped the eagles would lose? That was precious

@greenfan, dude I am going to keep this simple for you. You have alot of nerve suggesting I’m whining, when that is all you folks do, not just about Vick, you do it about the entire Eagles organization. I make the Eagles fans look like what?????…………please, you make yourselves look like whining babies, read some of your comments. I am a fan and I am not going to come on a blog and dog the players like most of you do, everyday. There are very few (seriously few) when there are positive comments made about any of the Eagles players, and you don’t think that that gives the fans a bad name, when you never have anything positive to say about your team. This blog alone proves that.

I asked a simple question, instead of answering the question you are telling me I’m whining GTHOH

@navyeaglefan, thank you that’s my point, they sit and dog this team daily, along with GCobb, sometimes I wonder if they aren’t ghost writers for Cobb. Yeah I was around when they were hoping the Eagles would lose. But yet this fool greenfan, is telling me I’m whining like a baby……………please, if I am whining like a baby, one thing I know for sure that I am not doing, that is bashing the Eagles everyday.

You notice I still haven’t got an answer to that question. I guess I can give up on that LOL

@ peacepussy…I haven’t even posted for weeks, so where are all of these negative comments.

Guess you never read my open statement….I am behind MV. Save all of your “how can you call yourself a fan” crying for someone who cares….

You guys crack me up….if someone has a view that things could be done differently you spend all of your time calling them negative….stop being a stepford fan and actually look at some of the ideas…it isn’t like this team is a perpectual SB champion….they were 8-8 last year. Clearly room for improvment.

Kurt Warner was bouncing around the arena leagues, then in a grocery store. Became SB MVP. Rebounded again as MVP with Cardinals after losing a season on the Giants and rotting on the bench behind Leinhart to have another MVP type season

Wasn’t Cunningham out of football for at least 1 year before he came back with the Vikes? Out of football for 1 year and then backup (not with the starters) and then came in to have his best statistical season and went 13-1 I think. Of course the following year he fell back to his career #averages too.

I’m sure if I go digging I’ll find a few other guys who were away and came back and succeeded….for a while at least But this is precisely the point.

Mike Vick does have an incredible skill set when it comes to his running. Got a big arm. Caught teams off guard. He came back last year, no film on the guy, and he put on a show for a few games.

But as with all things NFL, the league caught up quickly, and Vick’s traditional #s and results returned.

Guess you had to leave to change your tampon, so I will let you know where I stand.

- I’m ok with the off-season moves this year. I would have liked for Reid and Castillo to be replaced, but it won’t happen this year and it is how we will play it this year.

- I liked the signing of Mathis and the trade for Ryans. Signing DJax and extending Cole were also good moves in my opinion. Peters injury sucks, but that could happen to any team, I believe that the timing will help Mudd get a replacement trained in his system and it will not hurt as badly as it would have last year.

- I don’t have any problem with Reid saying he “goofed” last year. I like the honesty and believe that he is the type of man that would want to make up for his acknowledged mistake and has started to makev those move.

- I want a “big” reciever either in FA (Plax) or in the draft (like Steven Hill from Georgia Tech)

- I believe that with this being the 2nd year of the Mudd and Washburn systems, our line play will be much better to start the season compared to last year. I also like the upgrade a D-backs coach, but am unsure about the play of the safeties.

- I want to see the team extend Shadey, and avoid a situation like they had with DJax last year, but truthfully I doubt that it would be the same because they are different people abd I think Shadey would handle his business differently.

- MV is our QB. I didn’t want Manning, because I believe that his injury may be more then they are letting on. Our recievers play well with him, and with improved lineplay I believe he will have a season like 2 years ago.

- In the draft, I would like to see them take Fletcher Cox in the 1st round and Steven Hill in the 2nd round. I believe we can get a LB and safety with the additional picks.

So Mr. Peaceman….does that fit your criteria of a fan or do I need to agree with everything that you or navy or schiller to be accorded your designation of “fan”??

Since no one seems to know the answer to @peace112 regarding a player who has been away from the league any player for any reason and came back and was the comeback player of the year and could have been the most valuable player in the league won several other awards that year and if you go to espn he had the game of the century, So in other words NO OTHER PLAYER HAS DONE IT……

You get your feeling hurt because somebody points out that Vick gets injured alot, or threw a high number of interceptions last year (gee….I think Navy was fond of using that one in defence of Casstillo) ?

Pretty interesting calling a performance in 2010 the “game of the century” with the centuty only 10% done.

And also despite the fact that while 20 oof 28 for 333 and 4 is really great, its hardly the game of the century, mostly because other quarterbacks have equally well, if not better, on more recent Monday night games…Brees 31 of 35 for 325 and 5 tds comes to mind this year….why not call that “the NEW game of the century!!!”

Its exactly all the “game of the century”, “starship 7″, “I’m unstoppable” hyperbole that clouds people’s judgements on the guy’s unremarkably mediocre career.

Vinnie, again you are ignoring what makes Michael Vick, Michael Vick…
He not only threw 4INT’s that game but also ran for 2 TD’s in the same game as well…This is what separates his performance from the other QB you mention….But again, someone with the personal feelings toward Vick like you have I wouldn’t expect you to give credit..

@Vinnietheevictor you may want to get with espn.com and speak with the writers and the network they are the ones that gave it the game of the century, now if you have more clout than they do or more say so maybe you can have it changed but until then, it is the GAME OF THE CENTURY oh and by the way you may want to speak with the Hall of Fame because they have it that way also.

@greenfan and vinniethevictor, you prove my point you’re not fans you’re just a couple of losers that are out to bash the Eagles, your childish rants and name calling confirm just that., you have absolutely now credibility at all neither of you. GTFU

Thank you jmt8251, if I recall correctly didn’t Canton ask for the uniform. Maybe one day vinninethevictor, and greenfan will get the opportunity to visit that the Hall of Fame in Canton at which time they can see the uniform for themselves.

I went back and read the older comments on here to see where this enlightening “question” was posted. Have to say I am pretty disappointed, but if you want to spend a few minutes, go back and read all of the peaceman’s comments. He clearly has a crush on our QB. I wonder if maybe they actually served time together and maybe have a “special” relationship?

You clearly have a problem with G, and ANYbody that has any criticism of Vick. I suggest you tell you mom and dad to take you to see a counselor…I think you may still be able to see what at the middle school you attend.

Vick is our QB, and like most Eagles fans, I want to see him have a great year. Are there faults in his game…yes…just as there are faults in most QB’s games. I look at the Ravens in 2000 and figure that if the can win the SB with Dilfer, then we have as much a chance with Vick. I believe he can do some athletic things on the field that make him difficult for defenses, but he also has shown an ability to self-destruct with turnovers or injuries. Not a bash, just a fact. He is our QB, and has shown that he can lead this team. I don’t see why to bash him constantly like Vinnie does, but just as ridiculous is the need to try and have people believe that he is greater than his past statistics and record warrants. He is a leader of our team, our QB, that is good enough for me.

Funny thing about pointing to the Washington game as “The Game of the Century”….most of the fans of other teams in our division would point out that the Eagle fans like to point to regular season games as proof of dominence of the team, however, all of those teams have had their own “games of the century” in the playoffs and SB’s, and each has won championships.

You can point to that game….and truely, MV had an unbelievable performance, but just like all of Marino’s great performances, what did it really do for the team at the end of the year. Great performance….excitment for the fans….YES…..consistant post season performance ( but don’t read this as solely MV’s responsibility, the coach and other players all have a part in it) has been something that he has yet to achieve. He still has time, just look at Elway, but to talk about Canton and the HOF doesn’t make sense in my opinion.

@greenfan, you couldn’t have possibly went back and read the comments, and then say I have a problem with GCobb or anyone that has criticism of Vick, fact is I have a problem with anyone that does nothing but criticize this team (Vick) and have nothing positive to say (ever), which is exactly what I said.

You are a childish person, you know nothing about me, and because I don’t agree with your continued bashing and criticism of this team and Vick you attempt to insult and call names, maybe you are the one who may want to seek counseling.

Peace you are a fool….continual bashing? Dude, you are blinded by love for Vick….you MUST have me confused with someone else. Show me a post from the last 2 months that would be considered bashing? Get help.

@greenfan, you have danced around this conversation so much, I am now trying to figure what the hell you are talking about. In my initial comment you will notice that the only name I mentioned was GCobb, nowhere in that comment was your Why would I do that?? It definitely sounds as if you are the person in need of help, I’m cool..

Oh thanks for the ups on the links, I don’t spend as much time on these blogs as you therefore I wasn’t aware, but hey thanks. But then you don’t need a link to confirm that jersey is in Canton…. do you? Especially since you were just there.

Michael Vick’s jersey from game against Redskins is headed to Hall of Fame
By Cindy Boren
The Pro Football Hall of Fame, as it did with DeAngelo Hall after his four-interception game against the Chicago Bears, has requested the jersey Michael Vick wore in the Philadelphia Eagles’ victory Monday night over the Washington Redskins.

Confirmation just in! #Eagles Michael Vick jersey from MNF on its way to Canton!
less than a minute ago via TweetDeck
Pro Football HOF
ProFootballHOF

Vick also was named NFC offensive player of the week for the second consecutive week. He is the first quarterback since Randall Cunningham in 1998 to earn the honor two weeks in a row.

WOW!!!! All of this back and forth is making it more and more difficult for me to wait for September (heck I’d even take August right now). At the end of the season some will have been supporters and advocates from day one, some will have been cynics (but still supporting none the less), and some will be guilty of attempted sabotage (referring to when the Eagles make it deep into the post season and win the SB in spite of they naysayers).

I don’t mind taking the heat as an uber Eagles fan… I have a feeling about this year that I haven’t had in the past. Some things can be answered with empirical data and in some cases gut instinct is the best approach. I am very excited about the moves our FO has made, our very accomplished head coach, the play makers and new leaders we have on defense, the continuity and play makers we have on offense, and our dynamic QB that scares the crap out of opposing defenses as a dual threat.

@Navy… I really respect your posts, even though you took a bit of a dig at me, I really respect how you present your point of view. I may not always agree, but I always respect. Not that you needed that but I thought I’d share.

@Peace, JMT, Realtalk, and Rocko… stay positive and have each others back. It’s going to get rough in here before it gets better. The haters stick together and so should you.

@Giants Fan… nothing changes. I look forward to the day when you get exposed for who you are (even though allot of it has been shown already). Oh… and FYI “He’s inaccurate (that’s a distortion). He’s a turnover machine (that’s a distortion). He gets hurt every year (I’ll give you that). He’s small (Ok and your point is?). He has a me first attitude (That is an egregious lie and an example of why I call you a bigot). We’ll be better when we’ve moved on from this failed reclamation project (When the Eagles win the SB with Vick at the helm I want you to remember this statement). If I am wrong about Vick I will happily proclaim you right and me wrong… but If Vick does what I expect him to do in 2012… You will eat every hate filled word.

I’m outta here for a while fellas… I’ve enjoyed the back and forth. It makes me feel good to defend my team and its leaders. The more I do it the more confidence I have in the FO, HC, Off, Def, and QB! I CAN’T WAIT FOR THE SEASON TO BEGIN!

First off some of you guys are writing mini novels on here STOP THAT SHIT. Okay now Mike Vick is a top ten quarterback, never said he wasn’t. He just has holes in his game he need’s to sure up that’s all. I admit I was impressed with all the stats guys on here dug up. It was really impressive, the only stat that matters fellas is zero Superbowls period. Andy sucks and unfortunately he is going to take Mike down with him.

navy, I agree, we need the draft, FA signings, Mesante trade, or something, because I’ve been like the GCobb’s judge, moderator, equal rights lawyer, & HR rep on here lately, with some of these goof balls. They have been making me look like Mr. Positive. Too much BS on here anymore. JEESH!

Also vick is probably around nine I think lionsden posted that, that’s about right for mike. He has all the tools, the O-line has to hold up and as a team they can’t turn the ball over as much as they did. People on here get up in arms when you mention flaw’s in Vick’s game. Look what pissed me off with Vick is that in 2010 he showed what he could do if properly motivated. Then once he got his spot back all that shit stopped where is the consistancy. Year in and year out certain quarterbacks get it done, Vick has to take that approach also. So yeah I am coming at Vick a little bit, and if he not careful Cam newton might fly past him this year. That boy’s a beast.

I HAVE ONE QUESTION TO ALL EAGLE FANS AND I WANT YOU TO BE HONEST. BACK IN 2004 WHEN WE WENT TO THE SUPERBOWL DID ANYBODY FEAR VICK. HONESTLY I KNEW WE WERE GOING TO BEAT THEM. I KNEW THAT VICK WAS NOT GOING TO GET IT DONE AGAINST A DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR THAT NEW HOW TO PLAY HIM. SEE IT’S CERTAIN TEAMS THAT NO HOW TO PLAY AGAINST VICK. JIMMY JOHNSON LAID THE GAME PLAN OUT ON HOW TO DEFENSE HIM. THAT’S WHY WE HAVE SO MANY PROBLEMS WITH CERTAIN TEAMS. VICK HAS TO BEAT THE BLITZ AND MAKE TEAMS PAY DAMMIT.

pdids – kind of a messed up question. Team sport – I DID fear Vick then – but not his team. One player CAN NOT win an NFL football game. You can have an awesome QB – still needs guys to catch it. You can have an awseome RB – doesn’t mean you’ll win games if your defense is terrible.

Schill I agree but you have to admit Jim johnson game up with a great game plan on how to beat Vick and from what I have seen the teams that play that style are still successful against him to today. Birdo I agree with you he has to recognize the blitz better and get rid of the dam ball. And until he does that his numbers will be so so.

@ Birdo….I would have agreed with your statement about Mike being a different QB in 2010….but with the poor play of the line, mucho batted down balls and increase in interceptions, I think that there is a concern amoung many fans that in 2012 he returned to some bad old habits.

My hope is that it was a combination of a screwed up off-season because of the lockout….new coaches all over the staff….a line that needed to gel…..DJax messed up with contract on the brain…..Maclin facing health issues that kept him off the field during training camp….ALL excuses, but reasons to hope that after a year under Mudd the OL will play more consistant, that DJax will have his head on straight, that Maclin will take it to the next level and if that all comes together, we will see a healthy Mike Vick play like we saw in 2010 and the Birds will be successful.

Ok I am going to go deeper with my point. First of R.I.P. to the late Jim Johnson, do you guys remember how when we played quarterback’s that were averaged or below average our defense would dominate. But when we played the smarter quarterbacks. Some games we would get torched, because smarter QB’s would eventually pick up on our blitz scheme and make us pay. That’s what Vick has to do dammit.

Pdid – there’s no “show you” with sliding. Every 4 year old can do it. It’s a matter of DROPPING YOUR EGO. He was told he was superman – invincible. And he came back from diversity to a pretty high level, so the man think’s he’s invincible. The only way he slides is if he allows maturity and sensibility to overtake his ego a bit. I haven’t seen any indication that he will, but who knows? That’s the doulbe-edged sword with the way we idolize and elevate elite athletes in our culture. Mike Vick the individual – the personality – was crafted by people reinforcing the idea of him as an amazing freak of nature unstopable force. It’s DEEP in his head. So much is. I’ve said it all along, Vick’s biggest weakness is his psyche.

The Eagles have long lacked a team psychologist. Not saying I’m uber qualified to do it – but they, and all teams, SHOULD have a psych staff. Egos are problems – we all know that – see Donovan, see TO….. the list goes on and on and on and….

Hey Schill another good point, I agreed with you twice in one day. I am leaving Gcobb for the rest of the day. I will return tomorrow, and we will get back to going at it I am not use to this. You took me out of me element, COME ON MAN.

I don’t know if it is that easy schill…..much of what makes Vick the player he is should be attributed to his self confidence…..I am sure that there have been times in the past where he was told his size would be an issue to being successful…..I agree with EVERYONE that he needs to play smarter and safer, but his confidence is also the thing that has gotten him this far, unfortunately I doubt that it will be easy to make a change, otherwise he would have done it last year.

Greenfan – I agree about self-confidence. But he can be self-confident, and still slide. There’s a contiuum, and at some point, self confidence bleeds into arrogance, which can lead to stupidity. He’s flirting with the later end of the spectrum when he doesn’t slide. I’m not saying that I want Vick to think he sucks. But I want him to have the smarts to know that – confidence or no confidnece, he’s human, and can suffer broken bones, torn muscles and the like….

And greenfan – I ABSOLUTELY agree that it won’t be easy for him to make that change. The mind is a difficult thing to change. I’m not suggesting it’s an easy fix at all.

Right schill….we don’t want him to think he sucks…..just that he is human and can break!! I wish the coaches had a remote control with a “kill” button that would send him to the ground before he takes a big hit…..guess that would be stupid…..learning to slide is the next best step I guess.

It’s debatable…if you look at him through an entire season, in it’s totality, and figure in his ability to NOT stay healthy for an entire season he’s probably in the middle of the pack. If you compare his games that he’s healthy enough to play with that same number of games with all of the best he’s closer to the top.

I’m more prone to figure in the injuries simply because at 32 he’s only going to have a couple more years of effective high level play left and when it’s all said and done he’ll be known as the guy that had all of the tools, but could never stay healthy enough, or out of trouble long enough to really utilize all of them to their full potential and that will be reflected in his stats which will be carved in stone.

Here’s the way I look at it and probably the only way to look at it,
Vick is the man for the Eagles, He’s the Starter, the Franchise QB, so I support him 100%. He still gives the Eagles the best chance to win and if he simply can protect the ball and himself better, the Offense and Team should be in good shape..
The rest of woulda,coulda shoulda is all watrer under the bridge at this point and has little revelance on what can happen in 2012 so why bother complaining about it .. Let’s go Birds..