Partially a fair point, but like Florena said, WE brought OUR war in HIS land, without a particular justification. He didn't have much reasons for caring about politics of strangers, regardless of the help given and considering all the mess he and his Shado-Pan had to deal with.[COLOR="red"]

Given his status and knowing about the august celestials and how there guidance is something all pandaren seem to follow, the fact he was the only one who didn't listen to them, as well as the nature of the shado pan I read in the short story about them, to me makes any criticism taran zhu has to say as bad any his own convictions. It might be his land, but its also a land he couldn't have defended without outsiders.
And fact of the matter still rests, regardless of the sha problem, its the thunder king that would have caused the biggest threat, if not for the 'outsiders' coming in to kill him.

It doesn't excuse what Garrosh did, but he's pointing fingers at those who worked to protect pandaria, when its someone else whos done nothing for pandaria but steal from it. If you cut garrosh completely out of the context of the hordes actions in pandaria, there wouldn't even be a link to his actions, and that of those defending the land.

The way I see it, he allowed the horde to stay in good faith that they would make amends and that the Horde would be dealing with Garrosh. Instead Garrosh defiles the entire vale, causing the waters Pandaria depends upon to stop flowing.

Maybe the accusations aren't entirely fair. But when you look at it from his point of view, I can see why he'd say we shouldn't be allowed in the vale. Keep in mind that we could have still fought the sha and thunder king without actually being let into the vale, the only threats there were the mogu we fight in the daily quests really.

Given his status and knowing about the august celestials and how there guidance is something all pandaren seem to follow, the fact he was the only one who didn't listen to them, as well as the nature of the shado pan I read in the short story about them, to me makes any criticism taran zhu has to say as bad any his own convictions. It might be his land, but its also a land he couldn't have defended without outsiders.

The problem is that when he talks of "outsiders" now, it is not sure if he's just pissed with anyone or pissed with Garrosh's specifically. Regardless, the big problem is that Garrosh remains an "outsider" like us, so his point I think could be something like: "If we didn't allow the outsiders enter in the Vale in the first place, this would never happened" and in fact if these "outsiders" would never entered in the Vale, Garrosh wouldn't have been able aswell, and so no shit happening.

I mean, it's a blind point, but I think it's understandable by his point of view, because despite what the Celestials did and trusted, one of these outsiders (Garrosh) literally destroyed the sacred vale, infesting it with the Sha of Pride (making the effort of defeating the Sha of Fear pointless) and consuming the very waters that give life to Pandaria, because of a single, fucking outsider beyond the mists; and for Taran Zhu, the one that "challenged" the wisdom of the Celestials by saying that let the strangers enter in the Vale was a very crap idea, I think will give his rightful moment of "goddamn, I said that, fuck" regardless of how much reason he will have in the end (but well, Garrosh's actions has been absurdly destructive).

I understand and sympathize with Taran Zhu through most of the expansion, but I also wish that they had shown Anduin, or Dezco, or Baine, or someone credible actually push back a little and point out that, while he can think whatever he wants about the Horde and/or Alliance, his great and perfect land has objectively benefited from all their warlike, barbaric, violence loving tendencies -- as for example, the fact that Pandaria isn't a) crawling with Pit Lords and infernals and succubi, b) scourged into undeath, or c) completely destroyed in the "final cataclysm". And don't argue the mists for any of those -- if the Titans knew of Y'shaarj, they knew of the region that became Pandaria, and that means Sargeras knows. Arthas meant to scourge the Emerald Dream with Valithria, he would have known of Pandaria through it, surely.

Are the factions going to get everything right? Of course not. But seeing as they were also saving the entire world multiple times -- Pandaria included -- while the great Taran Zhu and the Shado-Pan were playing whack-a-mole with some bugs and grouchy tauren, a little slack, just a *little* might be in order.

I understand and sympathize with Taran Zhu through most of the expansion, but I also wish that they had shown Anduin, or Dezco, or Baine, or someone credible actually push back a little and point out that, while he can think whatever he wants about the Horde and/or Alliance, his great and perfect land has objectively benefited from all their warlike, barbaric, violence loving tendencies -- as for example, the fact that Pandaria isn't a) crawling with Pit Lords and infernals and succubi, b) scourged into undeath, or c) completely destroyed in the "final cataclysm". And don't argue the mists for any of those -- if the Titans knew of Y'shaarj, they knew of the region that became Pandaria, and that means Sargeras knows. Arthas meant to scourge the Emerald Dream with Valithria, he would have known of Pandaria through it, surely.

Are the factions going to get everything right? Of course not. But seeing as they were also saving the entire world multiple times -- Pandaria included -- while the great Taran Zhu and the Shado-Pan were playing whack-a-mole with some bugs and grouchy tauren, a little slack, just a *little* might be in order.

My character actually addressed this in one RP. Just because we saved the world doesn't entitle us to do whatever we please with it, especially not in lands already held by an indigenous people who warn us time and time again that all we're doing is making everything worse. How many times has he gone out on a leap of faith only for Garrosh's loyalists to completely fuck him over, at least once on Xuen's urging, while the Alliance sit back and do shit-all and the Horde frets over whether to defect or not until Vol'jin, Baine, and Lor'themar finally launch the rebellion?

As Zul and Florena have pointed out, his responsibility isn't to care about the internal politics of people who came to his land with the intent of stripmining it for resources and weapons, nor of people who come to his land to stripmine it, and who--while knowing the effect their emotions have on the Sha--empower those Sha to levels only seen in legend. When they do that, he and his order are the ones stuck with the bill, and saying that the Alliance and Horde should be worshipped as heroes because they deigned to clean up their own messes is illogical.

To say that Taran's the asshole here is kind of like saying if you break into a guy's home because he just happens to leave the door unlocked one day, get into a fistfight with another would-be burglar that sets off the rottweilers locked in the bedroom, let the rottweilers out so they can trash the house, and when the homeowner comes by and calls you and the other guy out for being dickweeds and threatens to kill both of you if you don't get the hell out (and, for some reason, relents and lets you guys help him clean up only for one of your dads to show up and torch the living room for kicks)... and somehow he's the asshole in this?

edit: Also, keep in mind that Taran Zhu reconsidered having everyone in the Shrine of Two Moons assassinated because of the Horde Adventurers' help. Then Dezco convinced him to give the Horde a season to sort their shit out, and look where it got him--the Vale has been fucked to high heaven and the Sha of Pride has been unleashed. Every time he held out an olive branch he got his palm slashed, it's no wonder he's done giving the factions second chances even if they aren't entirely at fault for the Vale's repeated desecration.

You unlike when she killed her own people to free Illidan, because she thought she was right?
I have my guess on which Alliance Leader is going to die, due to her recklessness and short fuse. Specially when Her Husband seem very fit to the throne.

I have been begging Blizz to get that old Sylvanas sounds so badass like a actual dead person. Now it sounds like some native mexican woman, whos trying to hard to say thing properly. Just .. seriously no words get old actress back