to judge its utility I think it is important to compare it to a simple cheap alternative.

Why is this important?Michael has a great performing inexpensive diy set-up and with all due respect high end grill owners looking for a showy insert (MPO) don't want ugly. His pizza pic already shows that it's comparable...Are you using the word "utility", as in "usefulness" ?

Why is this important?Michael has a great performing inexpensive diy set-up and with all due respect high end grill owners looking for a showy insert (MPO) don't want ugly. His pizza pic already shows that it's comparable...Are you using the word "utility", as in "usefulness" ?

I tend to agree with this assessment.

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"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza." Craig's Neapolitan Garage

If this was just a demonstration or an assessment of aesthetics then I would agree that a comparison is unnecessary. But this thread is presented as a sort of independent test of a product that is intended to be patented and sold to consumers.

I meant utility in an economic sense. Does its improved performance justify its increased price (I know a price has not been established yet) over an alternative. As such, it seems reasonable to compare its performance to an alternative. I don't think the pie I presented is nearly as good as Craig's.

I only offered my suggestion because I thought critical feedback was being sought on the evaluation of a new product and I was interested to see the results. I certainly agree it is beautiful and makes great pies. I am sorry if I intruded or offended.

Does its improved performance justify its increased price (I know a price has not been established yet) over an alternative. As such, it seems reasonable to compare its performance to an alternative.

There are lots of ways to build a DIY pizza oven, many will probably match and exceed MPO performance. But are they practical?

I used a pizza stone in my home oven for years, like everyone else here, I wanted to bring my pizza experience to next level but I didn't want a WFO for many reason other than the cost. I had firebricks lined in my home oven first, it improved my pizza, but it was not practical and became nuisance over time ... Than I placed firebricks on my grill, better results, again was not practical. This when I started looking for ways to build a portable, easy to carry pizza oven insert from off he shelf items. My options were limited till I came up with the idea of lifting the oven to insert and removing the pizza.

MPO will not appeal to everyone, but MPO is everything I wanted in a pizza oven insert and I want to bring it to individuals like me and hopefully make a business out of it.

Craig and the other guys have confirmed that MPO can bake a good quality pizza and is not just pretty useless design and it is not just my imagination.

If any comparison to be made it should to a similar insert that is available in the market. Even, that may not be beneficial, one product may appeal to some and may not appeal to others. What is good for me is not good for everyone. Options are nice to have.

Pricing is my main challenge now... it will determine the size of my potential market and potential MPO success as a business.

I meant utility in an economic sense. Does its improved performance justify its increased price (I know a price has not been established yet) over an alternative.

I am sorry if I intruded or offended.

Your thoughts are always welcome, Michael, anywhere on this forum.

The increased price is obviously due to materials cost.I believe Bert's target market want's an aesthetically pleasing unit...and he now has picture proof that it can perform well. This is out of the DIY realm, this unit, and it's customers will appreciate that.

If this was just a demonstration or an assessment of aesthetics then I would agree that a comparison is unnecessary. But this thread is presented as a sort of independent test of a product that is intended to be patented and sold to consumers.

I meant utility in an economic sense. Does its improved performance justify its increased price (I know a price has not been established yet) over an alternative. As such, it seems reasonable to compare its performance to an alternative. I don't think the pie I presented is nearly as good as Craig's.

I only offered my suggestion because I thought critical feedback was being sought on the evaluation of a new product and I was interested to see the results. I certainly agree it is beautiful and makes great pies. I am sorry if I intruded or offended.

Good grief - no offense at all - I'm sorry if I gave that impression. Please don't shy away from constructive suggestions.

Let me explain my thinking. The goal was not to benchmark the MPO vs. less expensive mods/options. The target market as it stands today (as I understand it) is not people who will mod their grill but rather people who will spend real money on a grill like like toys to go with it. I don't know anything about the size of that market nor whether this is a good plan or not. My involvement was simply to put the MPO through it's paces, see how it performed, and give feedback.

Given that my experience is probably a little more than the typical customer for this product, I think Bert should find some people closer to his target customer to test the grill now that he is confident in the ability of the grill to produce a good pizza. Through this process, he will be able to develop a dough formula and workflow that will a) verify if it is a viable product, and b)engineer a production model, and c) help his customers realize success.

I think your question as to the performance vs. a simple, inexpensive mod is an interesting one, but it is much more relevent to this forum than to the development and marketing of the MPO (IMHO). I did the test of the MPO as a favor because I think Bert has one of the most interesting grill solutions I've seen, and I'd like to see him be successful. My free time is not as limited as my wife's patience for pizza, but we all know which is the real gating factor. With that in mind, and recognizing that my passion lies only with NP from a WFO, I don't know if I will get to testing a grill mod such as yours. I won't rule it out as I do think it is an interesting question, but I can't promise I'll do it anytime soon.

CL

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"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza." Craig's Neapolitan Garage

But what about my mom? My cousin, my friends? I just bought a 400$ contraption For my grill? 20 bucks I can order local pizza.

This true even for a $20 contraption... It is not for every one... My goal, is too pick a price that guarantee MPO success. Whatever price I pick, it will not affordable for everyone…. I wish it possible…

I tried the MPO again for lunch today. This time with a cold fermented ADY formula. I can't even remember the last time I did that. I wanted to try something more along the line of what the typical MPO buyer might use.

KABP 100%Water 66%Salt 2.5%evoo 2%ADY 0.3%

13" pies. 300g dough balls, so pretty thin -- TF ~0.07 (the first time I used the MPO I made 370g dough balls).

17 hours in the fridge, balled then 4 hours at 77F. The thermometer was up to about 950F. The stone on the first pie was ~670F and about 750F on the last two. The bake times were about 4.5min.

These pies were really good. They had a nice crunch and better flavor than I expected. My wife really liked them and suggested I trade the MPO for the Acunto My response: fat chance of that

I think with a little practice and fine tuning the formula, you could really make a great pie in this thing.

Your pizzas made in the MFO look delicious! The baked temperatures sure were high. I had to chuckle when you posted that your wife really liked those pizzas and suggested you trade the MPO for the Acunto. Your pies almost look like Neapolitan pies.

Thanks for giving the ball weights, Craig. I find it interesting that my 170g balls come out looking thicker than your 300g balls. I'm not sure why this would be so. Are you pressing the center out as you open?

Here's a few pics from a recent family git-togither... my sister took the pics, I take no responsibility for lack of detail. The balls were 166g, diameter was 14". One cheese (for the kids), one portabello, ham & sausage. They were made with my funky wild yeast starter, no IDY, 2 day ferment.