Draft week begins

And then, after we all wake up, about 12 hours until the Canadiens make a draft choice that culd jump-start the franchise.

There are no Sidney Crosby available in the 2012 junior crop, no players guaranteed to become superstars.

But there are promising prospects; and the Canadiens, picking third overall, should be able to grab a very-good-with-gusts-to-great player.

Pat Hickey has been assesing the top prospects in The Gazette this week.

Here are Pat’s takes on:

• Consensus top prospect Nail Yakupov, who probably won’t be there at 3.

• Ryan Murray, the top defence prospect … and a longshot to be picked by the Canadiens, even if he’s available. General manager Marc Bergevin says he’ll draft the best player available, but the Canadiens have gone D for two straight drafts, with Jarred Tinordi and Nathan Beaulieu.

• Filip Forsberg, widely touted as the safest pick in the draft … but not the most spectacular.

At HIO, we’ve been touting the virtues of Alex Galchenyuk, whom we see as the Canadiens’ chance to hit a home run with the third pick.

Bob McKenzie, who knows his stuff, describes Forsberg as “a big strong guy with a tremendous shot, a love of phsyical play and capable of playing the hard, pro-style grinding game.”

That’s great, but the Canadiens need the next Anze Kopitar, not an upgrade on Travis Moen.

Their perennial quest for a big centre could motivate the Canadiens to draft Mikhail Grigorenko, who certainly will be available at 3 because the Quebec Remparts star has sunk like a stone on many draft boards.

The kid is huge and highly-skilled. But there are concerns about Grigorenko’s compete level and the possibility he’ll end up at home, playing in the KHL.

The last great Russian playing for Patrick Roy in Quebec City was Alexander Radulov. ‘Nuff said.

941 Comments

If Edmonton is as desperate for defense as people make them out to be then wouldn’t trading them weber our 3rd and possibly Ellis make sense to them? They can then still pick Murray at 3rd and gain 2 prospects and we get an NHL ready talent in Yakupov.

Can’t wait for this draft to be over so MB can make some moves to improve the team. gotta get rid of so many 4th liners
White, Geoffrion, Palushaj, Staubitz, Darche, Nokelainen, Blunden, Engqvist and the one and only Gomez how would you like to be a new manager with those headaches – good luck MB.

White stays, Geoffrion stays, engqvist is already gone back to Sweden, Palushaj is probably not going to have a shot at the NHL anytime soon. Gomez will most likely be bought out and Staubitz a big welcome for the lack of grit in the lineup at the time. Same goes for White. Nokelainen and Darche are done. Expect to see Darche in the front office within the next couple of years.

Yes, Galchenyuk or Forsberg is a big leap forward for the team. But calling the ’11-’12 Habs mediocre is being overly sympathetic, don’t you think? On the other hand, if you are referring to 1 win short of an appearance in the Stanley Cup final, or 1st overall in the Eastern Conference, mediocre doesn’t really fit either.

Whatever happens I am sure Timmins and bergy have it figured out. Unlike pg who thought a little to highly of himself I am sure these 2 coordinate and have contingency plans. Also despite our horrid management it’s amazing how this team stayed afloat thanks a lot to Timmins drafting .

Off to the cottage for the week so just thought I’d leave my draft predictions before heading out. No access to media during that time.
– our pick will be the best available at that position
– our pick will be disapproved of by over 35% of respondents to the next poll question
– our pick will be the cause argumentative meltdowns by a minimum of 4 posters in the coming days

CANADIENS ADD DUFRESNE, RIENDEAU AND MOREAU TO STAFF
The Montreal Canadiens announced Wednesday that the club has hired former Habs defenceman Donald Dufresne as assistant coach and Vincent Riendeau as goaltending consultant with the Montreal Canadiens AHL affiliate team in Hamilton. The team also confirmed the hiring of Ethan Moreau as part time professional scout for the NHL’s Western Conference.http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/story/?id=398809&hubname=nhl-canadiens

If the Habs do make a move on draft day it should fill that empty spot with Plekanec and Gionta. Perry? Then Anaheim can keep Ryan. Eriksson? Everyone has an idea of what winger is the best to trade for and the posts can go back and forth on that alone but I think everyone does agree that the Habs do need a top six winger.

I am thinking towards the end of the summer might be the time for a corn boil and b,b q, and I may have the Summit game tickets by then.
I think Kirk might be working in Hurricane country by then. And Cherry’s thong swim trunks would hurt my neighbors eyes me thinks.
But maybe Boone’s McGill trunks and strut around the pool may work.

Yes it would. I just edited my original comment and lowered my guess at what Prust will get by a tad. Might still be a bit high but I think a lot of teams would love him for their 3rd line. Or a stacked 4th line.

Actually going back for a 3rd time, my edited asking price for Prust is still probably high. He was only making $800,000.00 last season. I thought he was at $1.5 mill and had a bit more of a scoring touch to go along with his toughness. I stand corrected.

He really is another version of Moen who scraps more often. Someone will really overpay for him. Come to think of it, I can see BUrke backing up a truck to his house full of money to have Prust play for Carlyle.

Prust’s brain might not always be in the right place but his heart is. He’s gone after Lucic a few times when the Bruins have leaned on the Rangers. He’s got the snot beat out of him each time but at least he’s got the stones. ;-).

Since we’re engaging in draft speculation, I thought I’d make my feelings known:

Habs trade Carey Price to Edmonton for their #1 pick.

Habs draft Nail Yakupov with that selection.

Habs then draft Malcolm Subban with the #3 selection.

While Subban at number 3 might seem to be overpaying, I believe he has arguably as much potential as Carey Price did when he was selected at number 5, although, like Price, there will be growing pains as he matures.

Heh no, might as well keep the goalie we have that has proven he can handle full #1 goalie duties, and keep our pick. To me the difference between Yak and his fellow draftees is not enough to warrant taking a risk on an unproven goalie, that probably won’t make the NHL for a couple years.

If they Habs were to trade Price for #1..Then why not trade the pair of seconds plus a prospect for a pick later in the first round. That way they can take Yakupov, and hopefully Galchyenuk then select Malcom with the later pick.

Are we still talking about Mcguire, really?
He’s not the Habs GM, and he will continue to spout weird stuff on his soap box, but that’s how it works, being weird/outrageous works on TV, see Don Cherry.

So Karlsson gets 6.5m per year over seven years. If we use that as a model for PK’s contract, having just under half the numbers Karlsson did in the regular season, he’s probably good for a 3 for 3 deal. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s only a one year contract either. He would no doubt want to prove what everyone thinks he’s capable of now that the leash is longer and talk long term next summer.

Okay, but I think one can argue PK plays a better defensive and physical game than Karlsson. I don’t think PK gets Karlsson money on this contract, but he is worth more than half of Karlsson’s salary is my point. I think he will get between 4-5.5 depending on term.

Subban was pretty much relied on to shut down the other teams’ top lines and I believe he and Gorges did quite well. Definitely better physically than Karlsson, no question there. It was almost all the other pairings that let the team down. Still optimistic about Emelin (and Diaz to a lesser extent). I hope Markov regains his old form – it’s not like he’s 40 yet!

I think if the Habs make a trade , it should be with Anaheim for Ryan. I would use Pleks, Bournival and Weber as a package.

As far as the draft, my first choice would be Galchenyuk, if he is gone at 3rd, then Forsberg.

In the 2nd round, I would take Kerdiles, then Emil Lundberg, if they have drafted Forsberg, or Zharkov if they have drafted Galchnyuk.
If they draft Galenchuk and Zharkov and play them with Avtsin, they could name them the A to Z line

This rule has game 1, 2012-13 season, Gorges, 2 minutes, written all over it:
67.2 now reads “any time a player places his hand over the puck while it is on the ice in order to conceal it from or prevent an opponent from playing the puck, a minor penalty shall be assessed for closing his hand on the puck.When this is done in his own team’s goal crease area, a penalty shot shall be assessed (67.4) or a goal awarded (67.5). A minor penalty shall be imposed on a player who, while play is in progress, picks up the puck off the ice with his hand.

If we had gotten Denis Savard in his prime rather than past it, then maybe that trade doesn’t look half as bad today. And let’s not forget, although he was injured in the finals, we did win the Cup with Savard.

I like Subban. I hope he matures into the great player he’s capable of.

Wow. I’m blown away by those of you who think McGuire should not be a GM cause he said Tambellini should ask for Subban in a trade for the #1 draft pick. From what I’m interpreting, he’s just saying the pick should not really be traded unless someone over-ffered for it.
I hope to get clarification from McGuire himself today, but I seriously doubt he pulls the trigger on that deal as GM of the Habs. As GM of the Oilers, he definitely does.
And guess what? He was 2nd choice after Bergevin, so give your heads a shake if you think he’s not a very competent hockey guy.

Go Habs Go!!

“Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

I agree. Evaluating McGuire’s abilty to be a GM based on a fantasy draft is in itself a fantasy.

If he said “If I were Edmonton..” it’s from the perspective that it would be good deal for them. It doesn’t mean Habs would agree.
That’s the art of the deal- make an offer that works for you by dangling a juicy carrot like the #1 overall to a team that’s desperate to hit a home run in the draft.
I’d do it too if I were the Ollers.
Also if I were the Habs I would probably pass.

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“It’s just an opinion – I could be wrong”

IMO Forsberg is a steady pick but I just don’t feel he has that game changing aspect to his game. We need to draft a game changer with our 3rd pick…
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“How would you like a job where when you made a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?” -Jacques Plante

Mr. Pierre Mcguire you wonder why the phone does not ring for a NHL job. This is because you are a complete idoit. You went on national TV, and suggest that MB trade PK Subban, and the 3rd pick to Edmonton for thier first. I can’t believe people on here wanted you for our GM. There is no way you should be anywhere near hockey. This has to be the most stupid thing, that has been said on TV since Bettman claimed it was a hockey play.

Don Cherry, Glenn Healey, Mike Milbury and company have said plenty of stupid things inbetween as well. These are TV personalities doing what they can to remain relevant, and more often than not it seems saying outlandish things is keeping them relevant.

I HATE McGuire so much, but he didn’t suggest MB should do that trade. He said if he was the Oilers GM he would call the Habs and ask for that. Completely different. But I get your point, that is what he basically does all the time.

By suggesting that Tambellini ask for that trade would indicate that is a legitimate trade, whereas I think we all agree that it is ridiculous. Should MB call up the Sens and offer to switch picks if the Sens throw in Turris? Both those propositions have about equal chance of happening, for a GM candidate like Macguire to even suggest it makes me glad we have MB pulling the strings

He said it. He didn’t really say it was a legitimate trade. I think many people here take everything too literal, and even personal.
I’m still hoping for clarification from the horse’s mouth, but from what I’m reading here, he just threw it out in a way to say that Edmonton should ask a huge price if someone wants that pick.
I think many of you are grasping at this to denigrate McGuire more than you already have.
When you get 2 interviews for a GM job, tell us how dumb all the other candidates are.

Go Habs Go!!

“Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

Hankhardball raises an interesting question as it pertains to possible bias from the league towards U.S. Teams. While I don’t believe there is a clear agenda by the league to help U.S. teams, it is no secret that Bettman has gone well beyond the call of duty in order to keep franchises in the U.S. from moving to other cities, which currently there is an appetite from Cdn. cities due to the value of U.S. dollar compared to Canadian.

But there is one huge difference between Cdn. cities and U.S. cities. That is the fans appetite for a constant winner, thus the pressure for the Cdn. teams to always show some success.

In Montreal and Toronto the fans essentially refuse to accept a full 5 year rebuild that a team like Pittsburgh and Chicago went through. Granted the Leafs should have done so, since their results were similar, but they didn’t reap the rewards of it since Burke traded away the 2 highest picks that team would have had in a long while.

But I do believe the pressure from the passionate Cdn fans is harder on mgmt than the pressure from American fans in general.

Take L.A. Kings for example, they toiled for a few years, then underachieved for a few years all the while no huge fan revolts, and if there were it pales in comparison to the type of revolts we see in Montreal.

At the end, L.A. is successful in building their winning team, and now the fans of L.A. jump from the L.A. Lakers and become Kings fans since the team is contender and eventually champion.

It takes extremely strong ownership with smart management to keep Cdn. fans excited about the growth of their team and be patient that the team is going in the right direction.

Lets hope the current Montreal Ownership and Mgmt don’t make the mistakes of the past few regimes who tried to bypass building through a draft etc.. and rather make questionable trades in an effort to save face in the playoffs that same season.

I think if the Habs make a trade , it should be with Anaheim for Ryan. I would use Pleks, Bournival and Weber as a package.

As far as the draft, my first choice would be Galchenyuk, if he is gone at 3rd, then Forsberg.

In the 2nd round, I would take Kerdiles, then Emil Lundberg, if they have drafted Forsberg, or Zharkov if they have drafted Galchnyuk.
If they draft Galenchuk and Zharkov and play them with Avtsin, they could name them the A to Z line
Habfan17

Gary Bettman became Commissioner of the NHL on Feb.01,1993. That same year was the last time a Canadian based team won the Stanley Cup.

By law of averages, if 6 of 30 teams are Canadian, even though Winnipeg now makes it 7 of 30, during the 18 full seasons of NHL hockey under which Bettman has been Commissioner, there should have been at least 3 Canadian Stanley Cup winners. There have actually been zero.

In most pro sports, teams that are financially successful, are more successful competitively. Not so in the NHL.
Since the hard salary cap started after the 2005 lockout, 4 Canadian teams have been more financially positive than 4 of the 7 US based teams that won the Stanley Cup in those 7 years.

Is there a US bias under Gary Bettman’s regime? Or have the Americans become better at putting an NHL team together than Canadians?

Well lets see, Jeremy Jacobs owner of the Bruins, Ed Snyder owner of the Flyers and ownership group of the Rangers are widely held to be the three most important/powerful owners in the league. Jacobs himself is the person responsible for Bettmans current contract.

Having said that, only 2 times have any of that “Threesome” won a Cup.

It is an interesting dynamic you bring up. However, you have to remember for many of those years the US Dollar was killing the loonie, thus crippling many of the Cdn teams, including the Habs.

Neighbor, you beat me at making the salient point of a weak Canadian dollar! I would bet you saw the sound byte on D prospect Morgan Reilly’s
torn R ACL suffered in November, surgically repaired, and Reilly returning to action for the Moose Jaw Warriors in February that aired on TSN.
“May you live in interesting times.”

I agree that seems to be some bias, but also consider that these American based teams are actually run by Canadian-born management. I don’t pretend to know all the home-countries of all GMs but Luke Robitaille and Hextall are Canadian, as are Brian Murray, Dale Tallon, Mario Lemieux, Peter Ciarelli, Ken Holland, Mike Gillis, Doug Wilson, Glen Sather to name a few.

A major factor in the era mentioned was the weak Canadian dollar which bottomed out at about $0.62. This economic factor alone lead to the demise of the Barry Shenkarow Jets, and the Marcel Aubut Nordiques and put all Canadian teams EXCEPT the Leafs in jeopardy. Corporate wheeler-dealer George Gillette kept the Habs solvent but did not provide funding for free agent signings like the Leafs had (Belfour, Leetch, Nolan, Roberts, Nieuwendyk, Joseph, Mogilny, Andreychuk, others). Bettman and his cronies are not clever enough to weaken the Canadian teams’ odds. The bigger economic picture simply works against the weaker corporate branches at different times (weak Canadian dollar, lack of TV and media revenues)>

Yes, yes, yes, the paranoid Canadian hockey fan, who honestly believes Bettman, a glorified spokesman for the owners, is plotting against the Canadian teams. What does he or the NHL have to gain from that? I mean, you do realise until last year 80% of the teams are based in the US. Over the last 20 years the Habs, Laffs and Oil have been pretty mediocre teams, with a few exceptions. The Sens, Flames and Nucks have had there stretches of being contenders. They may not have won, but still 5 of the 6 teams have been to atleast the conference finals during those 20 years. They just didn’t get it done.

I say draft the best available player, even if he is a D. There are worse problems in the world than having a bunch of talented D prospects coming up the pipe and competing for roster spots. It’s not like the Habs are swimming in great depth to begin with.

So which injury is worse the concussion that Yakupov took causing him to miss a few weeks which cannot be healed but rather just hope he doesn’t get many more, or the knee injury to Galchenyuk which can be surgically repaired but did cause him to miss almost a complete season.

FYI, he was pretty much the best overall physical rated player at combine, and the trainer at combine said his knee is a non issue based on how he has rehabbed/healed.

While it’s possible P.M. was only saying Edmonton should consider making this request, he never made it clear (and he should have) the volume of the laughter that inquiry would be met with in Montreal. I’m not a believer in Mr. Hindsight’s genius and he needs to clarify this “thinking” in order to preserve whatever credibility he’d like to maintain.

He was cleared already by the LAPD, who found no evidence of rape and said the woman lacked credibility.

The woman is a nut bar.

When interviewed, she wants his punishment for raping her to be “Doughty should lose the Stanley Cup.”

She claims she was in a bar of hundreds of people, Doughty hit on her, she rejected him… he picked her up kicking and screaming, carried her out the bar in front of everyone, stuffed her in a cab, took her to his house, forced her out of the cab and into the house, where he raped her.

She then says she went straight to the hospital to report the rape. Hospital staff found no evidence of forced sexual intercourse.

My understanding the D.A.’s office plans to drop all charges. Apparantly the credibility of the victim was not so good. But never good to be linked to a story like that.

I am a huge Steeler fan, and the first time Roethlisberger was involved in an incident similar, no charges stemmed etc., and so I gave him the benefit of the doubt. When more instances were brought forward, you then realize there is a pattern here. Despite my appreciation for what he does on the football field, I wished Pittsburgh had turfed Rapelessberger a couple years ago after the case in Georgia.

If I am L.A. Kings, I ensure this type of story never has a pattern develop.

Just listened to the “If I am Steve Tambellini what would I need to trade that pick away” scenario. Obviously, by this time, the heat from the camera lights had begun to fry PM’s brain. He said PK + the Habs 3rd pick to give up the #1 pick. I’ve hear some whoppers in my time, but this one takes the cake. I have to qualify his reply with the fact that Duthie had asked Button and McGuire the question and they needed to fill air time. Still, my head shakes every time with the thought that this guy was a candidate for GM here. The mind boggles.

Paul the issue is that he raises this trade proposal as a realistic trade. It is all well and good that he is Speaking on behalf of Tambellini, but that doesn’t mean that Tambellini becomes braindead and actually expects Montreal to pay that price. It is another example of how PM gets away with preposterous statements, and never is held accountable.

You just know the server’s going to crash from the hundreds of posts that will be coming in after Montreal makes its first pick on Draft Day. That’s why I’ve already drafted my comments on the draft and posted them now so I can sit back and take it easy Friday night. Remember, when it comes to the draft, it’s all about choice.

_______, Montreal! That was an _______ pick. MB, you deserve _______. The new guy gives the team what it’s _______ for years: _______. He guarantees the Canadiens will finish in the top _______ for the _______ sweepstakes!
I’m looking forward to _______.

Congratulations
Screw you

Inspired
Outrageous

A medal
A firing squad

lacked
had

A superstar forward
A subpar forward

8
3

Stanley Cup
Nathan McKinnon

Next season
The lockout

(I’m pretty confident that years from now, when HIO members look back to the 2012 draft, they’ll say ‘JB, I can’t believe how _______ you were with your _______.’)

That would have been under Bob Gainey’s and Pierre Gauthier’s thinly kept secret of sabotaging the habs for a few million dollars of money, drafting small, trading small, thinking small. Now we are stuck thinking that way as fans. We think the wimpiest trickster with a stick and who can skate fast is a superstar, when in fact, all they are are wimps that no team wants. Thank you Gillette and Molson for selling out a dynasty, a history, much in the same way the Conservatives are selling off Canada to the rich.

Having a good powerplay of course is a major asset. It is comparable to having all-star caliber players like Joe Thornton, Eric Stahl, or Ovechkin, in that there will be moments of great achievement, but there has to be more to the backbone of a successful team as Edmonton’s and Toronto’s stats bear out.

Subban is the best player who is not a goaltender to wear a Habs’ jersey in 20 years. There are few players in the world for whom I would trade him. Nail Yakupov is not one of them. The “we could trade Subban” posts are – to me – the most annoying aspects of this otherwise wonderful website.

Not in any particular order:
Gomez
McDonagh
Halak vs Price
McGuire’s an idiot
Gainey ruined the team
Roy’s too hot-headed
Trade PK
I’ll stop there cause I’m getting annoyed.
Note: This is mostly tongu-in-cheek as I encourage lively debate, and different opinions is what makes the site so good….most of the time.

Go Habs Go!!

“Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

I think no one on the current roster is an untouchable. As most of Bob Gainey’s trades illustrated, (Gomez, Tanguay) the goal is to add value to the team, and not diminish it. Serge Savard made a horrendous move in giving up Desjardin, Leclair, and Dionne for Dr. Recchi, which I consider the worst Habs trade of all time. I advise against trading Subbie, but if what comes back is Yakupov one for one, I would consider it.

Yakupov is no Subban. I’d consider it for a couple sconds, as well, but a bird in the hand is worth more than 2 in the bush. Yakupov’s NHL success is an unkown right now while Subban plays 22 minutes+ per game against the best in the NHL.

Ya right along side Hal Gill his rookie year and Josh Gorges last year. I really wish you guys could come up with something better than he plays 22 minutes against the other teams best guys. Especially when it was Gorges and Gill who have been the guys playing against the other teams best guys. Subban got those minutes after Josh got hurt and this past year it was Gill and Gorges who played the first wave of the #1 ranked pk, not Subban. Hmmm… our two best defensive defenseman have been paired with Subban, maybe that’s the reason he gets the other teams best guys.

i didn’t watch the Button/Maguire mock draft but I seriously doubt that anyone would suggest trding our 3rd overall pick AND Subban to just move up two spots. The Fleury/Horton swap of 2003 is ample proof of how a deal such as that might go down. I think you would be looking at one of a roster player/decent prospect/2nd round pick. I think Maguire’s comments must have been misinterpreted.

There’s lots of talk about Forsberg on the site – some good, some not so good. Here’s the thing. Every mock draft has him in the top five. All of them. Secondly, how many people on this site have ever watched him play? Are there any posters on this site who live in Sweden? If not, then you are just looking at a few video clips. To say Forsberg isn’t very good or will be a poor selection for Montreal is a total waste of time.

I personally would like Galchenyuk but will be thrilled to get Forsberg or Murray. Especially after having selected from the 17th, 22nd, 18th and 56th positions during the past four years. As well, no team should ever draft a player just because they think he might be more “NHL ready”. This is a possible 15 year investment the team is making on a major asset. Not to mention that whatever you might ‘gain’ by having an 18 year old on your squad is negated by the fact that you have burned one of his years on the entry level contract. Montreal finished dead last this year. No new prospect from this year’s draft is going to do that much in 2013. He would be much better off playing a ton in junior, college or Europe. Do you really want someone that young being exposed to a city like Montreal and a coach like Therrien?

No matter what happens on Friday night, Montreal is guaranteed one of Yakupov, Murray, Forsberg or Galchenyuk. The team then gets to grab another top ranked player at #33 after having all night to think about it. They once again just rank the top three picks (after #30) and wait for Edmonton and Columbus to make their moves.

TSN does their mock draft last night and Pierre McGuire seems to think that Edmonton should come knocking on our door and ask for Subban and our #3 pick for the #1 pick. I think this is insane and wondered if he would have actually considered that if he got the job instead of Bergevin. Of course, no one asked him that. If he would, I’m glad Pierre McGuire is not our G.M. Heck, P.K. straight up for the #1 would not be something I’d do.

I emailed Melnick and asked him to ask Pierre to clarify that. I can’t believe that he actually thinks that trade should be done. I’d like to hear him explain what he meant. Perhaps he just meant this is something Edmonton would look at if they were going to trade the #1 pick. Pierre mst know that the difference between Yakupov, while possibly big, cannot be big enough to merit putting Subban in that trade.

Go Habs Go!!

“Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

Well done Paul, you were always open minded about the possiblity of PM being a GM in Montreal even though many of us disagreed with you. I think that is a wise move to email Melnick and get clarification. In fact I believe PM owes it to Melnick to answer such a question. Essentially Melnick put alot of his credibility on the line by essentially becoming PM’s public relations mgr. during his candidacy for GM of the Habs.

Thanks for doing that, I am curious if you get a response and if Melnick does ask Pierre about this. However, would hate to see Melnick ask him about it with a softball question basically taking him off the hook immediately. Would rather Melnick flat out ask him, why in the world would Montreal give up their best skating player and the third overall pick to move up two spots in a weak draft year.

Thanks Burly.
I still think McGuire would have made a decent GM, but this would be one move that would really piss me off if he had the job and did it.
I would be saying….”ok, I was wrong….he’s crazy.”…even though it would just be one move, that would be enough to convince me.

Go Habs Go!!

“Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

I can’t imagine CLB drafting Forsberg or a defenseman like Murray. Something tells me they want Galchenyuk, only because he can join the team. Meanwhile Forsberg has another year left on his contract in the swedish league. CLB probably wants a roster player. If they can trade Nash for a few roster players before the draft maybe they will go with Forsberg. 2 more sleeps boys and girls!

I really hope Habs don’t pick up a Dman with their 3rd pick. They need to stock up on big offensive players! If Galchenyuk is gone, safest bet would be Forsberg. I wouldn’t mind Grigorenko neither. In Timmins we trust.

I guess my concern Ed is that I feel Murray is a more elite defensive talent than Forsberg is elite in the forward position. I want us to get the best talent possible.

Up until a few weeks ago I would have said Grigorenko instead, granted it isn’t so much that I have changed my mind, but if indeed his stock has dropped this much, would hate to use a #3 pick on a fellow who could be had at 8 or 9.

I am not to keen on trading down, as I think it is imperative that the Habs pick up a “potential” elite player with this high pick.

Having said all this, I think if Columbus uses the pick they take Murray.

True enough Ed. End of day I am the furthest thing from a scout, and am very happy we have Timmins to make this decision. The fact he now has a boss with scouting background in Bergevin along with the prowess of Dudley makes me believe the team will make the right decision.

I just enjoy providing my perspective, as limited in knowledge as it may be.

Great debate indeed. If the team feels as Ed does that defense is an organizational strength and they pass on Murray, i think id like to see them swing for the fences and select Grigorenko. My unscout opinion is the team plays it a bit more conservative and takes Murray. However this goes we will get a good player.
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I’m coming round to the idea of taking Forsberg if Galchenyuk is gone (I also liked Faksa). Everything I’ve read about him suggests that he is all but NHL-ready, that he will develop into a very good power forward, and that he will be a playoff performer. There are absolutely no questions about his character, work ethic or commitment. By contrast, Grigorenko’s ranking has gone up and down like a yoyo, and there are all kinds of questions around him; maybe a lot of them are unfair, but it makes the pick seem risky. I’ll be disappointed if we draft a defenceman unless he’s the next Chris Pronger, just because we have such a crying need for offence and our offensive prospects are anything but deep – there is a frightening drop-off after Kristo, Gallagher, and Holland.

EDM winning the lotto created this turmoil, as CLB at two is far more unpredictable than if they were one. Yakupov would have been the BPA and fill a need for them (assuming Nash is ever traded) and then EDM would have filled a need with Murray, who also would have been BPA. Then Galchecnyuk would have fallen to us.

But now, it seems CLB might go with any of Forsberg, Galchenyuk, or Murray. I’m still alright with getting any of those three, but I really had my heart set on Galchenyuk back before he moved up most rankings.

I just had a look at that clip of McGuire suggesting the Oilers look at trading the number one pick for PK…

I’d like to thinkPM’s not suggesting a straight up Nail for PK swap, because I don’t know a GM (and I include Garth Snow and the Ghost of Bob Gainey in this) that would make that deal.

You take a 25-minute first line Dman with amazing skills who is by far and away your best NHL defence man (and cannot be replaced in your lineup without getting a 5mil free agent) and you trade him 1-1 for a kid who has never played. Is that kid going to be the next Stamkos?

That simply doesn’t make any sense. And if the Oilers were to throw someone else in the trade like Taylor Hall with Lars Eller going the other way… would you still do it? Maybe…

But I don’t know that we’re better off. We’re scoring goals, but suddenly our porous D just got stupid weak. Meanwhile the Oilers lose a scorer but gain two stud D with the third pick D they add to Subban. Dumb deal for the Habs.

Melnyk should remind Pierre that anytime he makes ridiculous suggestions like that on the air he ends up looking like a horse’s arse and is that much farther away from a real GM job in the league.

Why do you have to inflate his numbers to cling to a point that you’ve obviously lost? Nowhere is Drew Doughty listed as 220. If he was 220 at any point, it was when he was pudgy and out of shape and not performing. His playing weight is closer to 210 pounds.

So just admit that you thought he was bigger, but he’s essentially the same size as P.K. Subban. Marc Streit and Brian Campbell are smaller, Brent Seabrook and Brent Burns are larger, P.K. and Drew are somewhere in the middle. See how easy that is?

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In the very long view, it is important that kids growing up in Québec love the Canadiens and recognize themselves in the team, and a bit of the team in themselves. There must be a strong, visceral, emotional connection between the fans and leurs Glorieux.

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In the very long view, it is important that kids growing up in Québec love the Canadiens and recognize themselves in the team, and a bit of the team in themselves. There must be a strong, visceral, emotional connection between the fans and leurs Glorieux.

I’m in no way defending McGuire, but I think what Button & McGuire meant was that Mtl should trade 3rd & Subban for 1st AND another player… maybe one of Edmonton’s young studs… I don’t think for one second that he/they were suggesting 3rd and Subban for just Edmonton’s 1st. Oh, and I hope they don’t trade Subban!

This is a good example of why I never wanted PM for GM! If Montreal were to want the first pick and were offering Subban, it should be for the 1st overall and the Oilers 2nd round pick. All the experts are saying that this draft is week and that even though the Nail is the best of the crop, it is not by a great margin and he is no Stamkos or Tavares. Subban is a proven player. Forget having to give the 3rd overall pick with Subban. Yes, that would be a fleece of a deal for the Oilers, Subban and the 3rd overall for the Nail. What Pm should have sadi is that it would be nuts for Montreal and highway robbery for the Oilers.

P.K. Subban is just flash? If you think Habs fans overrate their players, I completely agree. However, they don’t overrate Subban.

P.K. Subban dominates when he’s on the ice any way you analyse the game.

Do a bit of homework and you’ll see that he completely outperforms/shuts down the best forwards in the league on a nightly basis, and for 25 minutes. Look it up.

And it goes further than that; not only did he shut down top lines, he was the progenitor of Habs dominance against these top lines. In other words, he didn’t just stop the best scorers from scoring but he set up the Habs to outperform those lines by being a possession beast. The Habs were a completely different team last year when he was on the ice (i.e. a good one, for a change). Subban almost always started in the defensive zone, against the best players in the league, and yet Montreal always dominated possession-wise when he was on, ending up with more offensive zone time. If you don’t realize how impressive that is, then note that no one close to Subban’s age performed nearly as well in that respect, at least not against nearly as difficult competition (and I can’t stress this last point enough). If the Habs had the forwards to take advantage of this, they’d be looking amazing.

This is the kind of, in a way, subtle dominance you’d expect from an elite veteran. Totally blew me away as the year progressed.

Even more than all of this (though related) is the promise of at least 40 points a season (and it’s no stretch to imagine that being 10-20 points higher perennially).

All in all you potentially have, in 2-3 years, one of the most all-round dominant defencemen in the game. That can be said of few, and Karlsson isn’t one of those few.

Sounds like an exaggeration but, in this case, the numbers don’t lie. At least they’re ridiculously promising.

Edit: And any talk of a sophomore slump is coming from ppl who see the game in a far too simplified way. (“What, he didn’t get 60 pts? What, people don’t like him? PFFFT!)

very well put, I’d say Doughty is a more apt comparison to Subban than Karlson, and look what Doughty’s done, I’d say Subby is a shade below Doughty in his overall game, and Doughty is arguably the best defenseman in the game now that Lidstrom retired

I think Shea is the best but that could soon change if Doughty keeps chugging.

I agree with what you’re saying, though I think Subban needs another year or two to be thought of as almost as good as Doughty, but I wouldn’t be surprised with that result. Definitely the better comparison (all round, dominant D)

Subban is not a physical defenseman like Doughty, Weber, Chara or Pronger and all of them are his superior offensively. For his size and style of play, Karlsson is a much better comparison. Habs fans comparing him to 6’3 Doughty, are being very optimistic or “misguided.”

Well sorry “chap,” but yee are the one who is misguided. I said several times now Subban is a top pairing D, like Suter. Karlsson is an elite offensive defenseman, PK is not. PK is better defensively, but not as much as Karlsson is better offensively. Saying I would trade Subban (top pairing d) for Ryan (top line forward) is not misguided in any way. Saying a 40 point D-man is a franchise player is misguided. He doesn’t bring the physical element of Chara, Pronger or Weber and doesn’t bring the offense that Karlsson, Lindstrom or even a younger Markov. Basically at this point his offense makes him a slightly better Josh Gorges. He’s only 23 and still could grow into an elite player, but it is about as realistic as Bobby Ryan becoming an elite scorer. They’re both good young players, but Ryan plays a higher need position for this organization.

I would compare Forsberg to Landeskog or Jordan Staal. Didnt put up huge numbers pre-draft, but they were physically ready for the NHL and then slowly developed their numbers. I think Forsberg could do the same, and he and Eller would really jam together. Thoughts?

I actually think he’s Pacioretty 2.0. Both were 6′ 2 180 lbs at there respected drafts. Both are known for being good skaters, that drive the net hard. Both hit, but aren’t really physical players. Problem I have is, we’re picking 3rd overall, I’d rather risk Grigorenko not becoming Malkin 2.0, than Forsberg not becoming Pacioretty 2.0.

McGuire was quite serious as he made the statement on The TSN Mock Draft Show with Craig Button & James Duthie where Button & McGuire made draft picks for the NHL 30 teams. Duthie politely said that the draft had to move more quickly since PM was slowing things down with his not asked for opinions on picks that Button made as well as going into too much depth/details on his picks……

McGuire must be on the goofy juice because that just doesn’t make sense. I doubt that MB would trade Subban for the first pick straight up in this draft. If there was a Crosby or a Stamkos maybe, but not for Yakupov.

I think he’s a D-bag as well, but he said EDM should call the Habs and try to get Subban and the 3rd pick. Not the Habs should call EDM. I took at as, EDM should try and get a kings ransom from us, not that he thinks we should do it.

Why do you assume I “hate” Subban? I just said he’s a top pairing D, I just don’t think he’s elite, nor do I feel he ever will be. Pacioretty is also not elite, nor will he ever be. Price is not elite, he is the only player we have who I feel has a realistic chance to be, but he isn’t yet. I guess if you don’t feel Subban is the next Bobby Orr, then you hate him. Again he plays our strongest organisational position and has more trade value than any other D-man. You gotta give quality, if you want quality in return.

Like most of you out there I’m really hoping that we get Galchenyuk on friday night. However I’m curious as to what everyone else thinks the club should do if he’s gone at 3. Murray? Forsberg? Grigs? My opinion is that the Habs almost have to take Murray in that case, based on everything I’ve read about him versus the others. I know that the organization needs help up the middle in the worst way, but at the same time I wouldn’t want to look back in 5 years and know we could have drafted the next Scott Niedermayer but passed. Any thoughts?

Tall talented centermen have often a way of skating that has them being perceived as if they dont care as much as the little one-way only speedsters of the Steve Bégin variaty around them….. even CH Captain Jean Béliveau had to composed with such a reputation despite proofs to the contrary that lasted well over a decade.

Béliveau was a formidable skater, such aisance, Alexei Yakuchev in the famous 72 series was all class too just like “le gros Bill “….. I long for a big talented center to wear a CH jersey and I hope that Grigorenko will be this guy if the smaller Galchenyuk is unavailable when our time comes.

I would still go with a forward, probably Forsberg. If Grigorenko was North American I would take him over Murray as well. But since he has the threat of leaving for the KHL, I think I would take Murray over him.

Back before the trade deadline I said we should trade PK for Bobby Ryan, then today I see its a rumor going around. I like it!! PK for all his flash, has only averaged 37 points the last 2 seasons. Karlsson on the other hand, has averaged 61.5 points. PK is better defensively, but he’s not in Karlssons stratosphere offensively. I know, I know JM was holding PK down, although Wiz and Mab had no trouble producing under JM. I’d also be willing to trade Kovalev junior (PK) for Yakupov as well. I know, blasphemy, but I’d rather have guys like Ryan and Yakupov getting us 30+ goals, than PK’s 30+ points. The Kovalev “protest” outside the Bell a few years ago is proof though, Habs fans love there flashy players. While the quite productive guys, Koivu, are easily forgotten.

Only 37 points a game..??!
Dude he’s 22. Karlsson has more skill and offensive upside but he’s IS PRETTY brutal in his own end. I don’t know why the heck you guys are including this guy’s name in every rumour. Do you know how many points Markov averaged in his first 2 seasons? 23.5 AND he was older than P.K. You build around players like Subban, not trade them away for 30-goal scorers. He is a FRANCHISE d-man! He’s friggin 22 and logging in 27-28 minutes of ice time. These players don’t grow on trees – there’s no d-man in the Habs system that has as much potential as P.K., no not even Beaulieu.

I HATE the idea of trading Subban for Bobby Ryan. He had 57 points playing besides Getzlaf and Perry – people are talking about him as if he’s the number 1 center we seek, he’s not John Tavares. What’s the issue with drafting Galchenyuk?

Ryan is a winger not a center and what does trading Subban for Ryan have to do with who we take in the draft. We are extremely weak organisationally at forward and have an abundance of D. We have to use what we have in abundance, to get what we have almost zero of. I mean Leblanc and little Gallagher, are our only offensive prospects right now, for 12 spots. Now count all the D prospects we have, for 6 spots. The cupboard is bare, getting Galenchyuk and Ryan/Yakupov, could go a long way towards fixing that.

Josh averages alot of ice time too, is he a franchise D-man? This always the argument for Subban, he plays alot of minutes. Whoopey Doo!! He’s also 23, not 22. Karlsson is a year younger and is what a real super star offensive defenseman looks like. It’s like saying that Pacioretty and Stamkos are both franchise forwards. PK is a good steady first pairing D, a franchise player he is not, atleast not in my opinion. So when you have an opportunity to get a franchise forward like Yakupov, I’m willing to gamble. Not because PK is a bad player, but because he plays D, our deepest organisational position. He has the value it takes to get players like Ryan and Yakupov. Only Price, or our first, or maybe Pacioretty have similar value. To get top notch scoring, you’ve got to give a top notch player back, period. I just feel a top line scorer is needed more, for this team anyway,than a top pairing D. It’s hilarious everyone wants a more offensively exciting team, but don’t want to trade any of our D to get it.

Comparing Stamkos and Max-Pac is a whole lot different than comparing Subban and Ryan. I know what you mean bud, this team desparately lacks star power up front. Stamkos is in a totally different league scoring 60+ goals and he’s x20 more effective than Max-Pac. Of course he’s the better option. But I wouldn’t sacrifice a top-notch dman just yet, Beaulieu and Tinordi need to prove that they are more than capable of running this D, otherwise we would improve our offense but D would have larger glaring holes. This team has one of the softest D’s in the league, I would stress on getting rid of Kaberle, Weber, Diaz before moving Subban. Just my opinion.

You said he was a franchise D, I don’t think he is. I was basically saying he’s more like what Pacioretty (top line) is to Stamkos (franchise). Both Subban and Pacioretty are top line/pairing players, but Stamkos and Weber are franchise players. Hey he’s only 23, maybe he proves me wrong. Ryan is a top line forward, PK is a top pairing D. Neither is a franchise player, but both are young valuable players. Equally valuable in my opinion.

PM suggesting trading Subban and 3rd overall for the first pick is way of getting back at Molson for not hiring him. What’s ironic is that Galchenyuk is said to have the potential to be the first overall pick if it wasn’t for his injury. Adding our franchise defensmen to the trade and we’re set to get Nathan McKinnon next year.

Don’t know if anyone saw that HNIC bit on coach’s corner where Don passes the mic to the prospects.. Grigo introduced himself, and next up was Forsberg…… And as Forsberg described himself as a two-way checking centre, could swear Grigo started to grimace and roll his eyes. Maybe Im just seeing something in a nothing, but I was definately turned off on the idea of drafting Grigorenko right there.

Marc Bergevin’s decision to prioritize the monitoring of the new crop of young players is an excellent move, something that should have been done before and is a break from the way things were done for the past two decades.

Following the model that he was a part of in Chicago, Bergevin is adapting Montreal to the realities of the modern hockey era.

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It gives me a sense of patience with little expectation that any blockbuster moves or panic decisions will be made. I am perceiving that the Habs direction will be where there will be a focusing on youth. There will be mentoring involved and in the process I have a feeling that the Habs will get more from their system and thus when trades are made will get good value rather than see assets squandered.

Building from within and stocking assets, building organizational depth, can’t be done overnight and it could be painful before it gets better. It isn’t tanking. It isn’t sucking to be good or losing to win. It will hopefully be a break from stagnant mediocrity.

There will also be a focus placed transitioning lessons learned into a winning combination all around. Truer to the idea of passing the torch. It is passed from failing hands after all.

There were reports of bringing the farm team closer to Montreal, like Laval, and in my opinion it could be a very good marketing ploy to maintain interest in a team that is rebuilding. Fans would be even more educated on the process involved with building a contender and can have a first hand look at what development is all about. It would be a good balance for the ebb and flow of contending to not-so-contending, and would put the onus on ensuring that the cupboards stay stocked as well as ensure that what is on the table is palatable as well.

Good call Burly!! I’m a fan of the Jays and Pirates, weird for a guy from northern NY. You’d think I’d be a fan of the Yanks or even the Mets, but nope, Jays and Pirates. Probably why I don’t flip out over the Habs not winning the cup since 93′. The Jays haven’t won the world series since 93′ and my Pirates haven’t had a winning season since 92′.

I think PK Subban is a smarter hockey player than Brett Lawrie is smart in any way, but I’m a big fan of both players. One thing they have in common, IMO is that they both seem to play better when they get a little cocky and just play their own style of hockey/baseball.
Lawrie spent the month of may trying to make contact and hustle out infield singles to get on base for his teammates, and the results weren’t spectacular, but lately he acts like he’s mad at the ball and he hates every pitcher and he looks like he’s gonna be a star. I think PK’s much better when he’s in guy’s face’s and skating end to end than when he’s trying to be “respectful”.

I know even less about baseball than I do about hockey and soccer, but one of the things I do know is that one of the reasons a hitter is slotted in the leadoff spot is because he is a fast runner, which admittedly, is only one element of a successful base stealer. Sorry, but IMHO, someone who’s thrown out about as often as he successfully steals a base isn’t particularly good at that facet of the game.