Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:53 pmPosts: 690Location: Between East and West

This human mass (most would call it body waste) of a President has no idea the requirements of a decision maker.

WASHINGTON - President Bush, on a collision course with Congress over Iraq, said Friday "I'm the decision-maker" about sending more troops to the war. He challenged skeptical lawmakers not to prematurely condemn his buildup.

"I've picked the plan that I think is most likely to succeed," Bush said in an Oval Office meeting with senior military advisers.

The president had strong words for lawmakers on both sides of the aisle who are lining up to support resolutions opposing his decision to send 21,500 troops to Iraq. He challenged them to put up their own ideas.

On Tuesday, five employees of the private security firm Blackwater USA were killed in a violent Baghdad neighborhood. Hours later, President Bush used his State of the Union address to call on what some are calling an undeclared surge of private mercenaries in Iraq.

Ok, so what's the plan that ya'll suggest? Pull em out and call it a day? If we aren't already the laughing staulk of the world, we would be here, because Iraq would be vunerable for several scenerios that you don't want to think about.

How about letting the Troops just carry on and get picked off one by one by insurgents?

How about just doing nothing and having a beer?

With that in mind al you Bush haters............... Tell me what your wisdom, political knowledge, and Military tactical expertise would advise GW to do.

I am very interested in the answers.

_________________A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty. Winston Churchill

Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:53 pmPosts: 690Location: Between East and West

For those that have play the game of Poker, know the best hand with the right cards determine the winner. However, it is also known one with a bad hand can bluff his opponent to fold. In other words, take your losses and leave the table.

The United States tried to bully their way at the table with the cards stacked against them. The winner(s) knew the pot (oil) was considered easy pickings, and for the winner to claim the pot, the individual with the best hand (Saddam Hussein) must be forced to fold, leaving a few radical religious sects to play with their cards. Each group sat at the table, one with a mighty military force, but, each time the USA was dealt another card, the other countered with their force of evil. With all the cards on the table, USA didn't have one single trump card. In fact, they have but one choice.. fold and cut your losses...

The USA played a similar Poker game in Vietnam, and folded.

_________________If you think you are beaten, your are. If you think you dare not, you won't. If you like to win, but you think you can't, it is most certain you won't.

For those that have play the game of Poker, know the best hand with the right cards determine the winner. However, it is also known one with a bad hand can bluff his opponent to fold. In other words, take your losses and leave the table.

The United States tried to bully their way at the table with the cards stacked against them. The winner(s) knew the pot (oil) was considered easy pickings, and for the winner to claim the pot, the individual with the best hand (Saddam Hussein) must be forced to fold, leaving a few radical religious sects to play with their cards. Each group sat at the table, one with a mighty military force, but, each time the USA was dealt another card, the other countered with their force of evil. With all the cards on the table, USA didn't have one single trump card. In fact, they have but one choice.. fold and cut your losses...

The USA played a similar Poker game in Vietnam, and folded.

Ok, King Fisher says tuck tail and run.............

Who's next?

_________________A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty. Winston Churchill

When people say things like "tuck tail and run", I automatically think of how when you're a kid and some asshole kid wants you to do something you could either get in trouble for, or something that is dangerous, (usually a combination of the two) and they call you a chicken for not wanting to stay in participate in their stupidity. Smarter heads know what things are worth risking lives for than those who only use their "instincts". Just because someone hasn't served in the military doesn't make them any less qualified to have an opinion about the direction this country has taken/is taking and certainly doesn't disqualify them from having reasonable, logical and viable ideas for what needs to be done.

Its difficult for me to understand the very slim portion the American public whom still believe there is some true and honorable reason for staying and fighting in Iraq. Its gotten to the point that here, in the middle of the Bush loving bible belt, where guns, hunting, sport and a strange love of war prevail that people are even starting to say things in public about how they don't trust Bush any longer and they don't believe our involvement in Iraq was out of any genuine danger that they have presented to America. What is it that causes a person to so blindly cling to such a terrible philosphy such is that of the war in Iraq? Certainly there is no true reason for us to be there any longer. The Iraqis do not want us there, the American people do not want us there, yet our bull-headed president insists upon going against everyone and slaughtering more innocent people by sending more and more troops to that debaucle.

There is a lesson I try to teach my 5 year old son about his life: its that you can not always win and that winning isn't a measure of worth. Perhaps more adults need to think about these things.

From what Sen. Hoyer has to say in this article reported by CNN, the ideas the Democrats are mulling over regarding the war are reasonable. But Bush isn't going to listen to any reasonable idea because he didn't think of it. He never has had a reasonable idea of his own, and he's not going to change course right now voluntarily.

Quote:

Democrats may promote a new revised bill authorizing the use of force in Iraq -- to replace the 2002 bill that allowed the Bush administration to proceed with the war, a top Democrat said Friday.

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer -- No. 2 in the House behind Speaker Nancy Pelosi -- said that is one step Democrats might pursue to change conditions in Iraq.

"Frankly, it is time for the president to accept that we are no longer involved in a nation-building exercise. We are involved in conflict resolution," Hoyer said during a speech at the Brookings Institution, a Washington think tank.

After a series of congressional hearings on the war, "We will then explore appropriate ways to affect the policy and strategy being pursued in Iraq," Hoyer said. Some ways include spending bills for military and diplomatic activities in Iraq "and possibly a revised authorization for the use of military force in Iraq that more accurately reflects the mission of our troops on the ground," he said.

Democrats want to shift responsibility to Iraqis, begin "the phased redeployment of our forces within the next six months," and implement "an aggressive diplomatic strategy," he said. Among the ways "to affect the policy and strategy being pursued in Iraq" were spending bills for military and diplomatic activities in Iraq, he said. "Beyond this resolution, though, our goal in the House is to conduct the kind of oversight of the president's policy that has been sorely missing during the nearly four years of this war. Democrats intend to hold this administration accountable," the Maryland Democrat said. "I believe the administration's Iraq policy is the most incompetent implementation of American foreign policy in my lifetime."

tuck tail huh.................lemme see now, that would be the frickin crap that's used by the winger limbaugh worswhippers who are in about the less than 1% group/minority of idiots that pathetically attempt to keep spreading the facist corporate dogma that we have no choice but to remain in the vietnamesque quagmire in iraq.

actually the choice by the overwhelming majority of americans, that now includes many many repuglicans, is for the implemetation of the well defined and documented recommendations of the bipartisan iraq study group.

number 1 a phased withdrawal of all troops from the middle of the civil war precipitated by our clumsy and failed invasion.

number 2 a regional peace conference that includes ALL nations whose borders contact iraq. the purpose is to discuss the future solvency and stability of a nation in turmoil who now needs the help of it's nieghbors.

a military solution will NOT work as evidenced by the overwhelming majority of 4 star u.s. commanders who've actually been inside the iraq theater of operations and made the critical assesments that have been deemed the moronic failed strategy of the bushicons to be just that.

the bushicons have had 4 years to get this farce right. there have already been several previous surge/escalations in 2004,5 and 6 that accomplished frickin nothing. the likely results of this one will only be that more american body bags will be filled all in the name of oil dollars security.

get out now and let them solve thier own damned problems.

and if it's such a frickin high and almighty cause that more bodies are needed to fill body bags, why aren't the recruitment centers for the army and marines being beaten down with diehard repuglicans willing to fight and die for the oil war that the bushicons are so in love with?

answer...........they're all frickin talk and chickenshit when it comes down to fighting and dying for something as delusional as what we see and read in todays news.

and if it's such a frickin high and almighty cause that more bodies are needed to fill body bags, why aren't the recruitment centers for the army and marines being beaten down with diehard repuglicans willing to fight and die for the oil war that the bushicons are so in love with?

The very reasons you mention above.

Look.......... I never said I was for the war, but the fact is that we are there, and Iraq is in turmoil because of our invasion. It's he said, she said as far as wmd's or any other reason why we went there in the first place. I personally think that there WAS wmd's there before we invaded, but because we dicked around with the UN on this issue, Hussein, knowing that an invasion was inevitable had plenty of time to remove all evidence. He's used biological weapons against his own people for pete's sake! This is a known fact!

Now Hussein is dead........ May he rot in hell!

Iraq, like Iran, Jordan, southern Russia, Saudi Arabia, and a number of other countries in the middle East are swarming with insurgents that is not unlike the viet cong. While the vietcong was in support of North Vietnam, these animals have no allegiance. Nevertheless this is what our Toops are dealing with.

That being said, if we pull out now, Iran will be licking their chops with a weak country that they have hated for centuries, and the opportunity to take more lives than we already have. I would not be surprised to see a holy war in this situation.

I guess it's protocall to bitch about Bush, but solutions need to arise before a major pullout happens. I am sure that plans have been presented, but none of them were right for the situation. Remember....... One Man does not come up with all of these ideas, and it takes more than one man to approve decisions such as war or a pullout.

It's also easy to sit behind your computer screen and play armchair quarterback and throw insults to those who do not trash Bush. I am not a clichish kind of guy. I call em as I see em. I am middle of the road, and I view as many idiots on the right as I do the left.

Wow, almost everything he said has been proven bunk. But hey if lying, cheating and stealing can be written off with mindless platitudes and excuses then there is no hope of reaching the average American mind. It is too steeped in ignorance to give a damn.

But hey, there's always low prices at Wal-Mart! Better get shoping for those great deals on cheap plastic Chinese crap. Gotta make yourselves and Living Rooms look gaudy and pathetic, while helping the Chinese become the next superpower.

Perhaps Americans could use all the money they're throwing away on this sick war of cultures and take care of solving their own cultural problems. Heaven knows if you pump enough money at something it should get better and not worse. Just like Vietnam, stay out of other peoples countries until you solve your own problems. You were duped in Vietnam and now they are pulling the wool over your eyes again. Why not leave them alone and whatever happens happens. if the shit hits the fan, it would anyway. Why should America be the only country to nuke someone?

But hey, there's always the drinking and the ball game to keep you mollified- so Turn on, tune in, and let the brain go dead. We have body bags for dead brains as well.

_________________Completely sane world
madness the only freedom

An ability to see both sides of a question
one of the marks of a mature mind

................where are all of the socalled bush supporters, who quite vociferously prattle on and on about why we should stay in iraq, who should be beating down the recruiters doors to get thier socalled patriotic butts on over to baghdad to help the bushicons complete thier deleuded version of the job that needs to be done?

hmmmmmmmmmmm??????

we hear the news constantly on how we lack the manpower to accomplish the bushicons agenda.

you'd think that by listening to thier schtick that they would be lined up by the hundreds or even thousands to get thier boot camp training under way so they can carry the ammo, guns and drive the light armored humvees past the ieds just waitin to blow thier friggin legs off all in the name of $1.50 gallon gas.

or maybe, just maybe they don't seem to be able to swallow the koolaid anymore either.

some repuglicans may actually have some semblance of an iq as well, especially when it comes to what is actually worth fighting and dying for.

and if it's such a frickin high and almighty cause that more bodies are needed to fill body bags, why aren't the recruitment centers for the army and marines being beaten down with diehard repuglicans willing to fight and die for the oil war that the bushicons are so in love with?

The very reasons you mention above.

Look.......... I never said I was for the war, but the fact is that we are there, and Iraq is in turmoil because of our invasion. It's he said, she said as far as wmd's or any other reason why we went there in the first place. I personally think that there WAS wmd's there before we invaded, but because we dicked around with the UN on this issue, Hussein, knowing that an invasion was inevitable had plenty of time to remove all evidence. He's used biological weapons against his own people for pete's sake! This is a known fact!

Now Hussein is dead........ May he rot in hell!

Iraq, like Iran, Jordan, southern Russia, Saudi Arabia, and a number of other countries in the middle East are swarming with insurgents that is not unlike the viet cong. While the vietcong was in support of North Vietnam, these animals have no allegiance. Nevertheless this is what our Toops are dealing with.

That being said, if we pull out now, Iran will be licking their chops with a weak country that they have hated for centuries, and the opportunity to take more lives than we already have. I would not be surprised to see a holy war in this situation.

I guess it's protocall to bitch about Bush, but solutions need to arise before a major pullout happens. I am sure that plans have been presented, but none of them were right for the situation. Remember....... One Man does not come up with all of these ideas, and it takes more than one man to approve decisions such as war or a pullout.

It's also easy to sit behind your computer screen and play armchair quarterback and throw insults to those who do not trash Bush. I am not a clichish kind of guy. I call em as I see em. I am middle of the road, and I view as many idiots on the right as I do the left.

Nobody has commented so far on the ideas put out by Sen. Hoyer in one response in this thread. If those comments have been made, I missed them and I'd be glad to be pointed to them.

Bush and the wingers are asking the Democrats to come up with ideas and solutions that are viable. Seems to me that Sen. Hoyer is doing just that. It might not be THE solution, but at least those ideas make more sense than Bush just sticking out his lip and saying once more "I'm the Decider" when his decisions are what got us into this quagmire in the first place.

_________________

"Behind every great fortune lies a great crime."Honore de Balzac

"Democrats work to help people who need help. That other party, they work for people who don't need help. That's all there is to it."~Harry S. Truman