ANNA
SPIEGEL, called as a witness, having first been duly sworn
by the Foreman, testified:

Q.
Mrs. Spiegel, what is your address?

A.
5104 Sunset Road.

Q.
Where?

A.
Baltimore, Maryland.

Q.
Mrs. Spiegel, you are appearing before this grand jury in
response to a subpoena, is that correct?

A.
That's right.

Q.
With reference to your appearance before this grand jury,
have you retained the services of an attorney?

A.
Yes.

Q.
Will you give his name and his business address?

A.
I don't know his business address.

Q.
In Baltimore?

A.
Baltimore, that's right.

Q.
Will you give his name, that's sufficient.

A. His name is Mr. Harry Adelberg.

Q.
Your attorney has advised you with reference to your appearance
before this grand jury, hasn't he?

A.
Yes, sir.

Q.
I also would like to advise you that in your appearance before
this grand jury you have the right to refuse to answer any
question which might be asked you in this grand jury room
if you reasonably and honestly believe by answering that question
you might incriminate or degrade yourself. Do you understand
that?

A. Yes, I think I do.

Q.
Do you also understand that this is a Federal grand jury sitting
in the Southern District of New York, is that correct?

A.
Yes.

Q.
Mrs. Spiegel, were you born in the United States?

A. No.

Q.
Where were you born?

A.
I was born in Russia while my mother was on a trip from the
United States to Russia.

A. Maryland State Teachers College two years, plus numerous
courses at the University of Maryland and Johns Hopkins University.

Q.
Do you hold any degrees?

A. No, I don't.

Q.
Mrs. Spiegel, do you know an individual named David Carpenter?

A. I know an individual named David Zimmerman. When I was
visited by the FBI they said he called himself David Carpenter,
and so I suppose I do know an individual named David Carpenter.

Q.
Well, for purposes of clarifying that, the individual I am
referring to also uses the name Carpenter and Zimmerman or
has in the past, so I think I am referring to the same individual.
Would you mind telling the grand jury when you first met Mr.
Carpenter and when you last saw him? Give us in your own words
what contact you had with him rather than me asking you detailed
questions.

A. I met him, I suppose, about 17 years ago, right after I
was married.

Q.
In Baltimore?

A.
In Baltimore. And I last saw him, I think it was in the spring
of l938.

Q.
You haven't seen him since that time?

A.
No.

Q.
Do you know an individual by the name of Whittaker Chambers?

A.
No.

Q.
I would like to show you a photograph and ask you if you can
identify the photograph, and when I say, do you know him,
have you ever seen him? Now if that photograph isn't sufficiently
clear for you to give an opinion on it, you can say so.

A.
It isn't.

Q.
All right.

MR.
DONEGAN: Showing the witness Grand Jury Exhibit No. 3. May
the record show that for purposes only of observation by the
witness, an individual is being brought into the grand jury
room and will leave the grand jury room without any statements
or comment being made by the witness or the person coming
into the grand jury room or by any other person in the grand
jury room.

Now,
Mrs. Spiegel, all I want you to do is observe this person.
Do not say anything until I ask you a question.

THE
WITNESS: Yes, sir.

At
this point Mr. Donegan, the U.S. Attorney, left the grand
jury room and returned with an individual known to the stenographer
to have been previously identified as Whittaker Chambers,
who, after entering, faced the witness, and left the grand
jury room after several seconds.

Q.
Have you ever seen that individual that stood by me at the
head of the table here?

A.
I am not sure, but I think so. I have seen someone that looks
a great deal like him.

Q.
Do you think it is a matter of the passage of years that changed
his appearance?

A. Yes.

Q.
I will endeavor to show you a photograph that would be a good
likeness of that individual in the early 30s, and ask you
whether that would assist you. I will show you that very shortly.
Now, do you feel that you can inform the grand jury of any
information that you have on this individual that you think
looks like him?

A.
I don't know what you mean.

Q.
I withdraw that question. I would like to show you a photograph,
Mrs. Spiegel, an enlarged photograph of that same individual
that was in this room, the same individual you observed. This
photograph, according to the best information, was taken about
1931, and I ask you whether you can identify that?

A.
Not the photograph, no.

(SAID
PHOTOGRAPH MARKED GRAND JURY EXHIBIT. 87, this date.)

Q.
Now, Mrs. Spiegel, with reference to that individual you had
an opportunity to observe, can you identify him any further?
Does he look like an individual whom you may have met under
some other name besides Whittaker Chambers?

A.
Yes, he looks like him, yes.

Q.
Would you give that name as to the person you think he looks
like?

A.
The name I don't remember.

Q.
All right. Will you tell the grand jury everything you know
about that person you think he looks like?

A. He looks like an individual that was brought to my house
by David Zimmerman.

Q.
Can you set an approximate time?

A.
An approximate date? Year?

Q.
Year, the nearest you can, year, month.

A. Well, I can't set a month. I'd say in about the fall of
1937, the fall or winter of 1937.

Q.
Just for the purpose - I do not mean to interrupt what you
are saying, but how would you associate '37? Have you got
something that happened at that time that would show '37 rather
than '36 or '35?

A. Well, I was living downtown at 112 East Madison Street,
and I don't remember the year that was, but happened to look
at a bank book and something that happened a year after that,
so I identified the fact that we were living at 112 East Madison
Street in 1937 and 1938.

Q.
In order to save time, of course your husband is going to
appear before the grand jury. Is he in a better position to
associate the date than you are?

A.
No. As a matter of fact we both -

Q.
What I am trying to get at, Mrs. Spiegel, is the year, which
is quite important, in other words, for the purposes of this
grand jury?

A.
Yes.

Q.
Now, is there anything else, some incident that happened back
in the 30s there, that you can more definitely associate that
with, that is, something personal with reference to your children
or something, that would set that date?

A.
Well, I had no children at that time. I don't know exactly
what you mean.

Q.
Well, it is quite important. It is realized it is a long time
ago.

A.
Yes.

Q.
And it is difficult to say what it is.

A. Yes.

Q.
But what I'd like you to do is try to search your memory so
that you can say more definitely whether it is 37 or
36? Now, if you do not know of anything, you do not
know of anything, but we'd like you to give a little thought
to it.

A.
Only this, if this is what you mean: We moved into 112 East
Madison Street, I think it was September or October of 1937,
I am not quite sure, it was that early fall, and it was during
that time, a while after we moved in there, that David Zimmerman
asked if he could use our apartment, and offered to pay part
of the rent, and since we were in quite bad circumstances
at the time, why, we said that he could. That is the only
reason I could associate with that time, plus the fact that
my husband had just started a new business, and things were
very bad for us, and we remembered that he started it that
year.

Q.
So it couldn't possibly be before September or October 1937?

A.
No. Because we lived at this apartment only one year, a little
over one year. It was either 11 or 13 months, I do not remember
which. And another way I might associate it was that was during
one of the periods when we were in very bad financial straits,
and the following year we were so much better off and we moved
to a new and better apartment. I mean, those are the circumstances
under which I can identify the date.

Q.
Now, Mrs. Spiegel, do you know what this man used your apartment
for?

A. No.

Q.
What purpose?

A.
No.

Q.
What was the arrangement? Will you tell the grand jury the
best you can what was done and so forth, in your own words?

A.
There were no arrangements.

Q.
What did David Carpenter say to you, or Zimmerman?

A.
He was over one evening and asked  we were talking 
he asked, I don't know if it was the first time he had been
to our new apartment, it is kind of hazy, or the second time,
and asked if he might use the apartment, and since I was away
teaching most of the day, and my husband was working, and
the place where he was working was near by, he was away most
of the time, and I was taking classes after school, and we
were home very little, plus the fact that he offered to pay
for the use for it, we said yes. But there were no details
discussed, or no arrangements.

Q.
Was any space assigned that this individual was to use?

A. No.

Q.
How did Zimmerman or Carpenter - whenever I say Carpenter
or Zimmerman, I mean the same person - how did they introduce
you to this man who was going to use your apartment? In other
words, did they bring him to you and introduce him to you,
how did you meet him?

A.
I don't know what you mean. We said we would let David use
the apartment. We didn't talk about whether friends of David
would use the apartment or not. I mean, we did not specifically
say they could not, but as far as I can remember, those things
weren't talked about.

Q.
What was the occasion for you to see this individual? When
did you see him?

A.
He was brought - David Zimmerman brought him over one
evening on a social visit.

Q.
What was the discussion then, as far as you can recall?

A.
You mean, about the apartment?

Q.
When this individual was there.

A.
I don't remember.

Q.
Anything about his business, or what he did, or anything of
that sort?

A.
No.

Q.
Was there any mention of the fact that he wanted to do some
photography work?

A. No.

Q.
Have you any knowledge that he did do photography work in
the apartment?

A.
I have no knowledge that he did any work.

Q.
Did you observe, did he leave anything in your apartment at
any time?

A.
He didn't leave anything. David Zimmerman left a suitcase.

Q.
A suitcase?

A. That's right.

Q.
Did you ever see what was in the suitcase?

A.
No.

Q.
Where did Zimmerman leave that suitcase?

A. In a cupboard.

Q.
Is it true that at no time were you present during the period
of time that this man was present that Zimmerman brought to
your place?

A.
Is it true - what?

Q.
That you were not present in your apartment at any time this
man was present in your apartment except on this one occasion
Zimmerman brought him?

A. You mean, was I not?

Q.
Let me ask the question again, and if you do not understand
it, ask for a further explanation. In the beginning Zimmerman
bought him over, is that right?

A.
That's right.

Q.
And your husband was present then, and Zimmerman was present.

A. Yes.

Q.
Then did you ever see this man again in your apartment after
that?

A. You mean, was he there on another visit?

Q.
Yes. Was he there any other time, whether a visit or any other
time?

A. Yes.

Q.
Will you explain those times?

A.
I don't remember. He was - I don't remember if he ever
came up there alone to visit without David Zimmerman or not.

Q.
Did he ever come up there - if he did come up, did you ever
see him do anything in your apartment?

A.
No.

Q.
You never did see him?

A.
No.

Q.
Did you ever see him use a camera in your apartment?

A.
No.

Q.
Did you ever observe any film in your apartment, either hanging
up or in rolls or anything of that sort?

A. No.

Q.
How long a period of time did that arrangement go on for,
how long a period?

A.
As nearly as I can remember, I think it went on two or three
months. That, I mean, is very, very hazy.

BY
THE FOREMA.N:

Q.
Do you know if this individual that you saw in here had a
key to your apartment?

A. No. David Zimmerman had a key.

Q.
Was his arrangement with you one that involved his staying
overnight?

A.
No.

Q.
Just to use the apartment, presumably to change his clothes
and have a place to meet friends?

A.
Yes.

Q.
The cupboard that his suitcase was in, was that supposed to
be his cupboard?

A. No. We had only two cupboards in the place.

Q.
How large an apartment was it?

A.
Small. Bedroom, a living room, kitchen and a bath, and two
cupboards.

Q.
It wouldn't be possible that films could be hung up to dry
overnight without your knowing it?

A. No, indeed. The place wasn't that large.

BY MR. DONEGAN:

Q.
Do you know whether this man used the kitchen for any reason
while you were out?

A.
No.

Q.
Was there any indication when you returned that he used the
kitchen?

A.
No.

Q.
Or the bathroom?

A.
No, not as far as I could see.

Q.
Can you say whether there were any occasions when he came
up to the apartment without Carpenter, I mean, when he came
alone?

A. You mean, when I was there?

Q.
Of course, you had to be there or you wouldn't know of it.

A.
Well, I do remember his visiting us two or three times or
 I know at least twice I am pretty sure of  but
other than that, I don't know.

Q.
Would you and your husband follow the practice of going out
for some social reason, either moving pictures or some other
place, when he would come?

A. No. Are you speaking of David Carpenter?

Q.
No. For the sake of keeping the record clear, the individual
that you observed in this room is Whittaker Chambers, and
that is the individual you say looks like the person that
Carpenter brought to you?

A. Yes.

Q.
And said that he wanted to pay you for using your apartment.
So, did Whittaker Chambers come to your apartment at any time
and you and your husband go out so he would be in the apartment
alone?

A. No, not that I recollect.

Q.
I think you will understand that's probably what is troubling
the grand jury and certainly is a question in my mind, what
was the purpose of Carpenter wanting to make this arrangement
and pay out money for this man to use your apartment. What
was your understanding of that, because it is an unusual arrangement.

A. I don't think it is so unusual. We never thought a great
deal about it. We knew that he had done some writing. As a
matter of fact, I mean, we never thought very much about it
at all. It was a very unimportant thing to us except that
we were receiving this money.

Q.
Well, let me put it this way: How much money, incidentally,
do you recall?

A.
I think it was twenty dollars.

Q.
On what basis, $20 a week or a month?

A.
A month.

Q.
With reference to your apartment, the use of your apartment,
in other words, it did not have any peculiar value to anybody,
did it? Was it situated in a place -

A.
Downtown; it was downtown.

Q.
But the man never slept overnight, did he, there?

A.
No.

Q.
So you would assume that he wanted to do some kind of work,
is that right?

A.
We knew he was writing a book.

Q.
Did he have a typewriter? Did you ever observe a typewriter?

A.
No.

Q.
Did you ever observe him doing any typing?

A. No.

Q.
So you never actually knew what he did in your apartment,
did you?

A.
No.

Q.
Did you ever have any discussion with Carpenter as to what
he was doing?

A.
No. I saw him very little.

Q.
Of course to be curious is human, and the question would be
as to why it was worth $20 a month to Carpenter for this man
whom I brought into this room here and I advised you is Whittaker
Chambers, to use your apartment. In other words, if he is
writing a book, at some time or other he would be in there
for a considerable period of time and you would observe him
doing some of the things in connection with writing a book.

A.
But I was home so little.

Q.
I understand that, but, after all, it was your place.

A. That's right.

Q.
And you were the one to raise the questions?

A.
Yes.

Q.
So that is what I am trying to get at. In other words, were
your suspicions aroused or were you curious? After all, money
is money.

A.
There was no reason for my suspicions to be aroused. I had
known David Carpenter for a number of years and it is true,
as you say, that one would naturally be curious. I thought
about it a number of times in the past week or so, but at
that period I did not at all, or, I will say, we did not.
I mean, it was a very unimportant thing in our lives. We certainly
had no indication that he would use the apartment for anything
improper.

Q.
Well, of course, the FBI talked to you very briefly, I take
it?

A.
Yes.

Q.
I do not know whether they did or not but I will ask you a
question: Did they question you as to whether Chambers ever
did any photographing in your apartment?

A.
No.

Q.
In other words, if the allegation were made that while you
and your husband were not present, Chambers used your apartment
for purposes of photography, in other words, taking pictures
of documents, and developing them, and printing them, while
you and your husband were not present. Is it possible that
that could have gone on without your knowledge?

A.
I suppose so. I do not know. I do not know very much about
taking pictures and photographs.

Q.
I am not asking you from the technical point of view. I am
asking you from the time element. Were you and your husband
away from there long enough - it takes sometime to take pictures,
and you have to mix some chemicals and put your film through
the chemicals, and you have to dry them because you cannot
roll them up, you spoil them, you have to dry them - were
you and your husband away from that place long enough for
that to occur?

A.
I think so. I left very early in the morning, and many times,
many, many days, I did not return until it was time to go
to bed.

Q.
On any occasion did you ever see him working in there in the
evening?

A. Not that I remember; no.

Q.
Did you know Carpenter or Zimmerman as a member of the Communist
Party?

A.
No.

Q.
Did you have any reason to believe at that time that he was
a member of the Communist Party?

A.
No, I never thought of it.

Q.
Did you know a woman by the name of Mrs. Soyring, or Eleanor
Nelson, her married name being Soyring? Have you ever met
her at any time?

A.
I never heard of the name.

Q.
Are you, or have you ever been, a member of the Communist
Party?

A.
No.

Q.
Did you ever have any suspicion in your mind that the purpose
of this man using your apartment might have been for something
that had to do with the Communist Party?

A. No.

BY
JURORS:

Q.
Under what circumstances did you first meet Zimmerman?

A.
As I can remember, I either met him at someone's house or
he came to my house.

Q.
In Baltimore?

A.
In Baltimore.

Q.
He wouldn't have come to your house without meeting you first
someplace?

A.
I mean, unless someone brought him to our house. When we were
first married we lived right downtown on Franklin Street,
and we had many people dropping in, people would bring other
people with them.

Q.
What happened to his suitcase?

A.
I don't know. It disappeared.

Q.
Did you ever look in it?

A.
Never.

Q.
Do you know whether Mr. Zimmerman or Mr. Carpenter had an
apartment or lived elsewhere, or where he lived at that time,
and was he married at that time?

A.
No, I never knew of him as being married.

Q.
Do you know if he had an apartment and where it was and what
kind of an apartment?

A.
No.

Q.
Didn't know where he lived at that time at all?

A. I knew he lived in the eastern part of the city.

Q.
When you would return home, would there be any indication
that someone had been in your apartment during the day?

A.
No.

Q.
Such as cigarette butts or probably the apartment needed a
little tidying up?

A.
No.

Q.
Did you know Felix Inslerman?

A. Who?

Q.
Felix Inslerman.

A. No.

Q.
Did you know if anybody other than Mr. Zimmerman used your
apartment?

A. No.

Q.
Who did you think was writing the book, Zimmerman or somebody
else?

A. I had no reason to believe anybody else was writing the
book. I knew Mr. Zimmerman was writing a book.

Q.
Did he leave a typewriter there?

A. No.

Q.
Did you know the nature of the book Mr. Zimmerman was writing?

A.
No.

Q.
Whether it was a novel or biography?

A.
I think there was some discussion of it being a novel.

BY
MR. DONEGAN:

Q.
Mrs. Spiegel, do you know an individual named Helen Schmerler?

A. Yes.

Q.
Do you know that she is a member of the Communist Party?

A.
No.

Q.
Were you associated with her in any activities in Baltimore?

A.
She belongs to the Progressive Party, and so do I.

Q.
Did you know Zimmerman as having belonged to any organizations
of a similar type when you knew him in Washington?

A.
In Washington?

Q.
I mean in Baltimore.

A. No.

Q.
Did you ever have any contacts with Mr. Zimmerman outside
of the city of Baltimore? I mean, did you know him in any
other city?

A. No.

Q.
Do you know what his present occupation is?

A. No. Let me qualify by saying that when the FBI men came,
they said that Mr. Zimmerman was associated with the Daily
Worker.

Q.
Yes, he is a copywriter on the Daily Worker. So you
can accordingly understand why you are being asked questions
as to whether you had any knowledge of his activities back
in those days.

A.
Yes.

Q.
Have you anything that you can contribute with reference to
that, for the information of the grand jury?

A.
About his activities in those days?

Q.
Yes, as you knew them in those days.

A.
I don't think so. The only way we knew him was socially. We
didn't see him a great deal. We thought he was a very intelligent
person. I think we were a little flattered that he should
pay any attention to us.

Q.
What did he work at at that time, do you know?

A.
I think he was a paint chemist.

Q.
Paint chemist?

A.
I think so.

Q.
I don't know whether you explained it already or not. How
did you happen to meet him, what were the circumstances?

A.
I do not remember whether we met him at someone's house or
someone brought him to our house.

Q.
What was the reason for you breaking away from him?

A.
We didn't break away from him. We just never heard or saw
him any more, and we wondered about that, but then after this
period I suppose we were so involved in our own affairs and
all that, that we didn't think too much about it, although
many times we wondered what had happened to him or where he
was.

BY
JURORS:

Q.
Did you ever hear him talk politics at all?

A.
No.

Q.
What general slant did he have in his discussions? Do you
recall?

A.
I wouldn't say he was conservative.

Q.
Was he inclined to be Communistic?

A.
I don't know what you mean by that. I mean, he was, I suppose,
to the left.

Q.
Not to an extent which you thought was unusual?

A.
No.

BY
MR. DONEGAN:

Q.
Mrs. Spiegel, have you tried to give some thought to recollecting
the name under which this individual I identified as Whittaker
Chambers was introduced to you?

A. I have.

Q.
Do you recall whether it was a first name or whether it was
a full name?

A. I mean, both my husband and I have tried to recall that.

Q.
Was it under the name of Bob, do you recall Bob in reference
to that, or Carl?

A.
I don't remember.

Q.
Did this man ever indicate to you where he lived?

A.
No.

Q.
Did the question ever come up as to why he wasn't using his
own place for whatever purpose he was using your place?

A.
The question never came up because I was never aware that
he was using my place, as far as I can remember.

Q.
That's confusing to me. Zimmerman comes and says, "Well,
I will give you $20 a month if you will allow this individual
to use your place when you are away from it," so that
raises the presumption that he must have been using your place,
is that correct?

A.
The understanding was that Zimmerman was going to use it.

Q.
Zimmerman?

A. That's right.

Q.
Not this man?

A.
No.

Q.
So at no time did you have any knowledge that this man that
came into this room here, that you saw, used your place?

A. I never thought about it. I never said to Mr. Zimmerman,
"Don't bring anybody into my place," or anything
like that.

BY JURORS:

Q.
Did either Zimmerman or this individual ever have dinner at
your home in a social way?

A.
Mr. Zimmerman might have.

Q.
Was there an understanding that Mr. Zimmerman was to be undisturbed
for a certain number of hours each day?

A. No.

Q.
How did you reconcile the fact at the time that Mr. Zimmerman
had his own apartment, I presume he at the same time was working,
and paying an additional fee to use your apartment during
the day? I mean, did you in your own mind reconcile why a
man would have to have two apartments in the same city? Didn't
that strike you as rather strange?

A.
I never thought very much about it. I think he was living
with his mother at the time. I did not know. I knew very little
about his personal life.