It’s probably likely to be in the form of lower annual registration costs if it does exist, that’s how they incentivise Kei cars (the small form factor vehicles you see everywhere there) over larger vehicles, it would seem smart to use the same mechanism.

For EVs , you can receive 1000 x battery capacity (kWh) Yen from the government. For the new Nissan LEAF, it would be 400kYen ($3700) which is also the upper limit of the incentive. For PHVs, you get 200kYen.

I don’t understand why one wouldn’t simply purchase a Bolt. If range is numero uno, why waste time on the Leaf? Granted, it has Pro-Pilot features that the Bolt lacks, but at the end of the day doesn’t range trump all? This appears to be a brand/name recognition continuation of the Leaf 1.0, along with it’s lack of thermal management. I suppose its like the Prius crowd who never do the research to realize there’s WAY better products currently in existence, and to be released shorty in the future if one waits a little bit longer.

@ Benz- but here’s my point about range: if you start out with a lower range battery that doesn’t have thermal management, if it’s anything like the 1st gen Leaf then the “just fine” range becomes not “just fine” in potentially a couple few years from now. Why not spend a little extra and start with WAY more range to begin with? Then the degradation problem is a non-issue?

Fair enough. But here in America, I just looked and found gently used 2017 Bolts with under 10k miles for as low as $22k. Granted, the used vs. new is a whole different discussion, but if one was inclined to include that option then the access to WAY better range could be potentially available.

But speaking on brand new then you have a really good point. With the reduced range and no thermal management, I’d still be inclined to simply lease the Leaf (if that’s an option in the Netherlands).

I agree with John with the argument that a gently used Bolt is better than a new Leaf (given that they cost the same). The only thing that stops me from getting a Bolt is mainly brand recognition. Chevrolet has a bad past with electric cars. The EV1s were returned and destroyed while the first generation Volt has a huge devaluation (worse than the comparable Prius plug-in that has even a shorter range). The first gen Leaf was also a disaster, I agree, but Nissan has less bad reputation.

Gabriel, I think at this point it’s safe to assume that GM has finally advanced past the ‘wild card’ status of the EV1, simply based on 2 generations now of the Volt and the introduction of the Bolt. But I understand your point, and it’s one that initially made me and my buddy wary of the 1st gen Volt (which we both now own).

New base Bolts are selling for $32k, less the credit you can get a Bolt for less than $25k already. The Leaf is short legged and has no pack management system. If you get a Leaf, lease it, because there is a good chance you won’t want to keep it.
GM is run by idiots. If they would reduce the MSRP a lot more people would realize just how good a deal the Bolt is. Penny wise and pound foolish. GM has the best engineers and the worst management of just about any car company out there.

It was a calculated move to price the Bolt on the high side and to only produce ~35,000 in the first year. This minimizes the risk for GM if there turned out to be problems and expensive recalls.

They make more revenue per car while they iron out production issues if any, assessed demand, etc … I don’t expect them to aim for really high volume this year either, but maybe the 2019 model will feature some improvements, a price cut, and a push for higher volume.

There’s plenty of opportunity in international markets, but I think that the more likely scenario is that the market will find room enough for both offerings, as there must be if EVs are going to get beyond 1% of sales nationally.

We’ll see how the Leaf and Bolt compete this year. I’d lean toward the Bolt, but I’m not a new-car buyer so my next purchase will probably be to replace my wife’s 07 Prius with a used Prime or Volt in a year or two.

GM’s first year of Bolt sales can be counted as a success in my book. They built as many as they said they would, and they’ve sold most of them. They got a lot of critical acclaim for the car … they just need to drop the price to take it to higher production and sales, but GM needs to plan for and optimize their federal tax credit phase out and expiration … if they can get the new Bolt-based Buick CUV into mass production in time to capitalize on the full tax credit that looks like it could be a really popular vehicle to me.

The new vs. used argument is moot, as there’s very few used Bolts that will be sold, and we all want more EVs on the road.

You say “doesn’t range Trump all”, but it really doesn’t. ProPilot was the difference-maker for me, as I have a long commute. So was availability. You talk about range loss (whether due to cold weather or degradation), and that’s exactly why 100-mile EVs didn’t cut it for so many people.

The price difference is big, especially once pre-orders are filled and the Leaf gets the same discount off MSRP as the Bolt.

The real question is why would you buy a Bolt instead of a Model 3? The latter has so many advantages: acceleration, handling, looks, resale value, supercharger network, autopilot, etc. How many people would give up all that because they really don’t want a sedan?

The Leaf is in a different price bracket, competing with slow 100-mile EVs, and will sell maybe 100k EVs per year. The Bolt has little future one year from now, when the Model 3 is available and the Y is revealed. I expect GM sees that they can’t sell it for $38k for long, so they won’t bother with expanding production beyond 30-40k, and will discount as necessary in the future to meet that goal.

Yes, you could wait a little longer until the end of next year but this will alway be the case for most things, you will miss out on life entirely if you always wait for the next big thing around the corner ?

Alan, that’s a fair point, you have to have balance in life between waiting forever and pulling the trigger at some point. But EV tech is changing so quickly at this point, it almost seems like the waiting option (for maybe another 1-2 years) will gain you so much more range/features. Especially if you were inclined to look at 1-2 year old used market. Heck, there’s Teslas in the high $30k range now- imagine what those same cars will be in 1-2 years when the Model 3 production is completely (hopefully) ramped up!

Here in the UK, the Bolt will never be sold, the TM3 won’t arrive until late 2019 at the earliest and many such as myself ran out of time on my current lease, I had to make a decision on extending my Outlander PHEV for a short period as the New leaf was not available yet, in the end, I extended for 2 years because the car is so good and I knew the longer range leaf with the LG chem battery will be widely available by then + others entering the market by that time will be available.

It really boils down to what is available at this moment in time, how much utility the car has & how economical it is to run.

Alan, I’m not sure if you can lease for only 2 years. I haven’t done the research but would doubt it- most leases I’ve ever seen are 3 years minimum. So I suppose if you lease then you’d have to be prepared to wait 3 years minimum on the next generation of car, but the upside is 3 years from now you’ll see AWESOME new and used options to choose from!

Who actually buys a new Leaf? I fully expect at least 80% of them to move off lots via a lease, especially if Nissan isn’t working with utilities to plop $10k on the hood. Now if Nissan does manage to keep those promotions going somehow, then the Leaf is a surefire winner for a lot of people.

Only an idiot would buy a Leaf. Fast charging and hot weather both take a toll on their packs. Lease them and let the bank take the hit on dropping re-sale values.
Nissan has the worst packs out there, though they aren’t as bad now as they used to be. That is kind of damning them with faint praise though.

Some possible reasons that someone might go for a Leaf instead: 1) The Bolt is very limited in availability everywhere but the US. 2) The Leaf has much more useable cargo space than the Bolt. 3) The Leaf’s seats are more comfortable. 5) Many people report bad customer experiences with GM dealers, who try to sell their ICE cars instead of EVs. 6) The Leaf is cheaper.

All the extra length and wheelbase buys you a larger hood and trunk. The cabin of both are about the same, but the Bolt wins in head and legroom in the rear. The Leaf has a larger trunk with the seats up. The Bolt has more storage with the seats down.

My thoughts exactly, but I guess some people don’t have those 7k extra (comparing LEAF S which doesn’t have Pro-Pilot). Maybe compared to the SL. Another benefit the Bolt EV has is liquid battery cooling, aka thermal management.

Because they don’t plan to buy the car at all. With Nissan leasing at $229/month, that’s a decently attractive price, though one is going to probably end up putting nearly $5k down to get it. But range also isn’t everything and with 150 EPA miles, it has far more than enough to cover the vast majority of even regional trips for people as well as a daily commute in places like SoCal where people are easily driving 60+ miles each way to get to and from work. The old Leaf would require a charge on the way back, the new Leaf can easily get back home.

The reason I’m in the market for a replacement for my 2011 is that I got distracted (with the heating/AC) and rear-ended someone else.
My future cars will have Pro-Pilot equivalents. I have a `17 Volt with the front and rear sensors.
Other than a Tesla, nothing on the market can be driven out of Albuquerque (L3 sites are too far apart along I-25 and I-40. Thus my longest EV trip is 95 miles to my weekend work site with L2 charging available.
I don’t trust the `18 Leaf to maintain battery capacity to make the trip in the winter (2000 foot elevation gain). Don’t want to pay for Bolt Premium to get the Adaptive Cruise Control, etc. I’m waiting to see what is available in 2019 – affordable Bolt with sensors or TMS Leaf 60 kWh. In the meantime, I burn about 2 gallons of gas weekly to make my weekend trip and do all in-town on electricity. The Volt allows me to travel cross country – Albuquerque to Savannah in 24 driving hours staying at hotel with no charging station (44 mpg).

I have a 16 leaf sv 30kWh battery lost 4 bars at 19k miles. Battery was replaced under warranty, now at 23k miles my s.o.h. thru leaf spy is down 96%. My biggest mistake never getting an electric car again with no thermal management.

I’m in your same boat, Kyle. 4 year old Leaf with 60-70% range left leaves me VERY limited in driving options. Without the ability to purchase a longer range replacement battery pack, or even same range with thermal management leaves me very frustrated. Won’t be buying another Leaf ever again.

The 30 kWh 2016 Leaf SV (10/15 build) that I am currently Leasing still has 100% SOH (Leaf Spy Pro) after 17k mi. and 15 months of in service useage. This battery has been repetitively baked on the fastcharger 250 times, at temps exceeding 120 F. I can barely notice at most a quarter, or a half of a kWh of degradation from the available 28 kWh that are useable. These newer 30kWh Leaf batteries seem to be much improved from the “pre-Lizard” smaller (24 kWh) Leaf battery packs.

I got the 12/15 build based on the door sticker. That was the reason I got the 30kwh leaf coz I read that Nissan improved the battery but it’s not holding up. I even tried charging up to 80% most of the time to extend the battery life but didn’t do much good. Only Quick charged 4 times since the 2nd battery replacement.

The new LEAF fills a whole in the market between the short range (~100 mile) cheapish cars and the long range (220+ miles) but fairly expensive ones. With the new LEAF you get a range that solves most trips without breaking the bank. It makes sense that it sells well.

+1 Leal, Bolt, Model 3 don’t compete as long as each one will be sold to a specific crowd (a 30k hatchback doesn’t compete with a 50k sedan). In no time we’ll have the Jaguar I-Pace that won’t compete with model X ( totally different size and price). I think that the Leaf covers the “real” range needs of 80% of the population and hence no need to pay more for the Bolt or M3 but I don’t criticize people who buy them (more BEVs are allways great news regardless of who sold the actual car). Now even if don’t need 4WD I still think the JAGUAR I-Pace will be the best looking Electric for a while and 80% charging in 45 minutes is great. Since I’d rather buy a gently used/highly depreciated both Leaf 2.0 and i-Paci will be “2/3 years” from now options either way (or a Model Y provided it comes with regular doors). I’m not criticizing Model 3 so please don’t kill me guys, it’s just I’ll allways prefer the convenience of a hatchback/SUV (if M3 has 500k reservations, a hatchback would probably had 750k/1M…but maybe Tesla wanted the M3 to not compete directly to MY)

Sales haven’t even begun in the U.S., where the LEAF was just rated by the EPA at 151 miles of electric range, yet there have already been 13,000 orders placed here.

Pretty sure they’re already available for sale as cars.com has some listed and some of the listings have actual pictures, not just the stock ones. Also, the sample of dealerships listing them includes some from states that definitely aren’t CARB states (e.g. Kansas, Nebraska, Ohio).