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As cool as winter, as hot as summer and all Wizard [Harry Dresden]-Next book is not out!

Posts

Weren't there also indications that younger wizards are less incompatible with newer tech? Like, really old wizards had problems with milk curdling and physical devices. Dresden's generation is okay with mechanical stuff, but has issues with electronics.

Like as the technology seems less magical to the wizard, it's less incompatible with magic, or something.

No, it’s just that the definition of “modern tech” adjusts over time. A long time ago, magical people curdled milk. Or prevented radios from working. Nowadays, 1950s cars work okayish, but modern computerized cars shit the bed around the magically talented.

I believe the bit talking about milk curdling also brings up an in universe acknowledgment of warts on noses as an effect of magic, without anyone really knowing why. I don't think the milk was pointed out as a part of technology, just another weird side effect of magic.

I think I'm going to go back and read these, the books I want are super on hold, and this'll be something fun and quick.

"The shore does not dream of you." - Blind poet Gallan.

0

WACriminalDying Is Easy, Young ManLiving Is HarderRegistered Userregular

Weren't there also indications that younger wizards are less incompatible with newer tech? Like, really old wizards had problems with milk curdling and physical devices. Dresden's generation is okay with mechanical stuff, but has issues with electronics.

Like as the technology seems less magical to the wizard, it's less incompatible with magic, or something.

Pretty sure

Molly

has a cell phone? Am I misremembering that?

Full series spoilers

After she becomes the Winter Lady, she uses a cell phone and it freaks Harry out mentally

Weren't there also indications that younger wizards are less incompatible with newer tech? Like, really old wizards had problems with milk curdling and physical devices. Dresden's generation is okay with mechanical stuff, but has issues with electronics.

Like as the technology seems less magical to the wizard, it's less incompatible with magic, or something.

No, it’s just that the definition of “modern tech” adjusts over time. A long time ago, magical people curdled milk. Or prevented radios from working. Nowadays, 1950s cars work okayish, but modern computerized cars shit the bed around the magically talented.

I believe the bit talking about milk curdling also brings up an in universe acknowledgment of warts on noses as an effect of magic, without anyone really knowing why. I don't think the milk was pointed out as a part of technology, just another weird side effect of magic.

I think I'm going to go back and read these, the books I want are super on hold, and this'll be something fun and quick.

Yea Dresden talked about the side effects of magic being not understood very well. Like how Magic practitioners used to get warts and stuff, and now it's breaking technology, and why it seems to be a seemingly human only problem.

Weren't there also indications that younger wizards are less incompatible with newer tech? Like, really old wizards had problems with milk curdling and physical devices. Dresden's generation is okay with mechanical stuff, but has issues with electronics.

Like as the technology seems less magical to the wizard, it's less incompatible with magic, or something.

Pretty sure

Molly

has a cell phone? Am I misremembering that?

Full series spoilers

After she becomes the Winter Lady, she uses a cell phone and it freaks Harry out mentally

Full series

Unless one of the short stories goes into it... I don't think it's really been clarified where she sits on the human / not human axis after that. She's presumably immortal now, for instance (in the true sense of the word, in that she literally cannot be killed except in specific circumstances). It's entirely possible she's basically a faerie with a human soul now.

There's a short story in the Brief Cases from Winter Lady Molly's perspective and she's definitely full-on-fae nowadays. She can't break faerie law, she has to obey Mab, she can only do things if she makes deals with mortals, the whole she-bang.

In fact, at the beginning of the story, she didn't know the extent to which she was no longer human.

Technically, none of that clears it up completely, either. Could be a mix and match like Polaritie said.

Full series:

And it really should be as she was bullshited into taking the mantle against her will practically. If she loses her soul over it that's a crap deal. But then maybe it just will be, that be something for Dresden to feel guilty over.

"For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."

+1

WACriminalDying Is Easy, Young ManLiving Is HarderRegistered Userregular

Technically, none of that clears it up completely, either. Could be a mix and match like Polaritie said.

Full series:

And it really should be as she was bullshited into taking the mantle against her will practically. If she loses her soul over it that's a crap deal. But then maybe it just will be, that be something for Dresden to feel guilty over.

Nah, Dresden knows

about the best times of year for removing/exchanging mantles, and has been personal witness to several transitions of Faerie Court mantles.

Technically, none of that clears it up completely, either. Could be a mix and match like Polaritie said.

Full series:

And it really should be as she was bullshited into taking the mantle against her will practically. If she loses her soul over it that's a crap deal. But then maybe it just will be, that be something for Dresden to feel guilty over.

Technically, none of that clears it up completely, either. Could be a mix and match like Polaritie said.

Full series:

And it really should be as she was bullshited into taking the mantle against her will practically. If she loses her soul over it that's a crap deal. But then maybe it just will be, that be something for Dresden to feel guilty over.

Nah, Dresden knows

about the best times of year for removing/exchanging mantles, and has been personal witness to several transitions of Faerie Court mantles.

It's practically Chekhov's Gun.

Has there ever been a mantle removed from someone that didn't end in death? I guess Lily got the Knight's mantle, but that's different from the Queens' mantles, and she only actually got rid of it by gaining a stronger mantle which had direct control over where the Knight mantle goes.

I can't remember anyone else ever being able to give up a mantle and live, or talking about that.

Technically, none of that clears it up completely, either. Could be a mix and match like Polaritie said.

Full series:

And it really should be as she was bullshited into taking the mantle against her will practically. If she loses her soul over it that's a crap deal. But then maybe it just will be, that be something for Dresden to feel guilty over.

Nah, Dresden knows

about the best times of year for removing/exchanging mantles, and has been personal witness to several transitions of Faerie Court mantles.

It's practically Chekhov's Gun.

Has there ever been a mantle removed from someone that didn't end in death? I guess Lily got the Knight's mantle, but that's different from the Queens' mantles, and she only actually got rid of it by gaining a stronger mantle which had direct control over where the Knight mantle goes.

I can't remember anyone else ever being able to give up a mantle and live, or talking about that.

mantles should be permanent.
Allowing Harry and Molly to just shrug them off feels wrong, Harry trying to get out of his deal with Mab by killing himself was a decent in character action, but allowing him to escape from that kind of deal feels like a copout.
You took the power, now you pay the price, seeing Harry and Molly learm to deal with their situation feels more interesting to me.

That'll bump Molly up to being the new Queen of Air and Darkness and she'll probably have the power to relieve Harry of the mantle.

Except, at that point, would he want to?

Because given time, she'd basically become Mab. Maybe she can release him before she changes too much?

I don't see that happening. I mean, Molly trying to dismiss him I can see, but I can't picture any part of Dresden's personality that would consider quietly letting Molly turn into the next Mab in order to get out of being a Knight.

Even if it was Molly's order that he leave her service, I don't think he'd be able to avoid the idea that he was somehow sacrificing Molly to save himself, and, unless some truly apocalyptic shit has gone down between then and now, I don't see Dresden being at peace with that.

Even if the circumstances were entirely out of Dresden's control, and something entirely out his weight class happened that made Molly the next Queen, and she tried to dismiss Dresden in order to save him, I don't think he'd go. Instead, I'd imagine he'd dedicate himself to trying to learn anyway to undo that transfer of mantles (and damn the laws of magic if they get in the way), even if he was acting against the wishes of Queen Molly at that point. And, at that point, if she's dismissed him as Knight, he doesn't actually have to answer to her.

All this talk is making me want to start another re-read myself. Going to start with Side Jobs and read the short stories as they would appear in the timeline of the books. Hopefully that makes the wait shorter... if I have to, I'll watch the show on DVD.

Weren't there also indications that younger wizards are less incompatible with newer tech? Like, really old wizards had problems with milk curdling and physical devices. Dresden's generation is okay with mechanical stuff, but has issues with electronics.

Like as the technology seems less magical to the wizard, it's less incompatible with magic, or something.

No, it’s just that the definition of “modern tech” adjusts over time. A long time ago, magical people curdled milk. Or prevented radios from working. Nowadays, 1950s cars work okayish, but modern computerized cars shit the bed around the magically talented.

It also seems to depend on a wizard's "power level"; Binder mentions that he can use an older model phone so long as he keeps it switched off when he's not using it, and also:

Found out about the bounty on Morgan on Craigslist.

Harry is mentioned many times to be a magical heavyweight, so he can't even drive a modern car for long. Makes me wonder what sort of fun side-effects someone like the Merlin would cause just walking down the street.

Weren't there also indications that younger wizards are less incompatible with newer tech? Like, really old wizards had problems with milk curdling and physical devices. Dresden's generation is okay with mechanical stuff, but has issues with electronics.

Like as the technology seems less magical to the wizard, it's less incompatible with magic, or something.

No, it’s just that the definition of “modern tech” adjusts over time. A long time ago, magical people curdled milk. Or prevented radios from working. Nowadays, 1950s cars work okayish, but modern computerized cars shit the bed around the magically talented.

It also seems to depend on a wizard's "power level"; Binder mentions that he can use an older model phone so long as he keeps it switched off when he's not using it, and also:

Found out about the bounty on Morgan on Craigslist.

Harry is mentioned many times to be a magical heavyweight, so he can't even drive a modern car for long. Makes me wonder what sort of fun side-effects someone like the Merlin would cause just walking down the street.

Probably fewer than Harry, honestly.

The Merlin is significantly more experienced than Harry, but not more powerful. Actually, Harry may have more raw power, even if he'd still lose because of the skill gap.

Strictly in terms of how much raw magical power they could pump per second, I mean.

Weren't there also indications that younger wizards are less incompatible with newer tech? Like, really old wizards had problems with milk curdling and physical devices. Dresden's generation is okay with mechanical stuff, but has issues with electronics.

Like as the technology seems less magical to the wizard, it's less incompatible with magic, or something.

No, it’s just that the definition of “modern tech” adjusts over time. A long time ago, magical people curdled milk. Or prevented radios from working. Nowadays, 1950s cars work okayish, but modern computerized cars shit the bed around the magically talented.

That's literally exactly my argument? You just replaced the word newer with modern I guess?

0

WACriminalDying Is Easy, Young ManLiving Is HarderRegistered Userregular

Weren't there also indications that younger wizards are less incompatible with newer tech? Like, really old wizards had problems with milk curdling and physical devices. Dresden's generation is okay with mechanical stuff, but has issues with electronics.

Like as the technology seems less magical to the wizard, it's less incompatible with magic, or something.

No, it’s just that the definition of “modern tech” adjusts over time. A long time ago, magical people curdled milk. Or prevented radios from working. Nowadays, 1950s cars work okayish, but modern computerized cars shit the bed around the magically talented.

It also seems to depend on a wizard's "power level"; Binder mentions that he can use an older model phone so long as he keeps it switched off when he's not using it, and also:

Found out about the bounty on Morgan on Craigslist.

Harry is mentioned many times to be a magical heavyweight, so he can't even drive a modern car for long. Makes me wonder what sort of fun side-effects someone like the Merlin would cause just walking down the street.

Probably fewer than Harry, honestly.

The Merlin is significantly more experienced than Harry, but not more powerful. Actually, Harry may have more raw power, even if he'd still lose because of the skill gap.

Strictly in terms of how much raw magical power they could pump per second, I mean.

You might be right. It was interesting in Skin Game seeing Harry contrasted with

(Skin Game spoilers)

Hannah Ascher. Harry's whole thing is fire magic but she makes him look like an amateur by comparison. Harry wields fire like a sledgehammer, Hannah wields it like a scalpel. Although she was being boosted by Lasciel at the time. It does hint that Harry could eventually be capable of some truly crazy shit if he ever learned to use a bit more finesse.

Weren't there also indications that younger wizards are less incompatible with newer tech? Like, really old wizards had problems with milk curdling and physical devices. Dresden's generation is okay with mechanical stuff, but has issues with electronics.

Like as the technology seems less magical to the wizard, it's less incompatible with magic, or something.

No, it’s just that the definition of “modern tech” adjusts over time. A long time ago, magical people curdled milk. Or prevented radios from working. Nowadays, 1950s cars work okayish, but modern computerized cars shit the bed around the magically talented.

That's literally exactly my argument? You just replaced the word newer with modern I guess?

You seemed to be tying it to the age of the wizard, rather than the state of the world. McCoy and the Merlin would be screwing up cell phones, too, not curdling milk. McCoy drives a 1940s-ish truck, not a horse and buggy.

I sometimes wonder why we never see Harry attempting to learn greater finesse.

It's like he's content to be a brawler. He looks at other practitioners and admires the skill and precision with which they handle their magicks - then just returns to blowing shit up.

I think it's more or less due to the timing of the books. I mean, he's in some ridiculous adventure about once a year - if not more regularly. Considering how often he gets shot or otherwise injured, that's not a ton of time to practice between recovery.

I sometimes wonder why we never see Harry attempting to learn greater finesse.

It's like he's content to be a brawler. He looks at other practitioners and admires the skill and precision with which they handle their magicks - then just returns to blowing shit up.

I just want a scene where he's on Demonsreach or something trying to copy Luccio's laser-beams, instead of putzing around with his potions.

I thought there was a bit of his learning some finesse in order to teach Molly when she became his apprentice. Like, he knew that she wouldn't be able to do what he did (or at last, not how he did it), and he refused to use the same training methods he had endured, so he had to figure out how to teach to her strengths.
I might be wrong though, probably time for a reread on my end too.

Weren't there also indications that younger wizards are less incompatible with newer tech? Like, really old wizards had problems with milk curdling and physical devices. Dresden's generation is okay with mechanical stuff, but has issues with electronics.

Like as the technology seems less magical to the wizard, it's less incompatible with magic, or something.

No, it’s just that the definition of “modern tech” adjusts over time. A long time ago, magical people curdled milk. Or prevented radios from working. Nowadays, 1950s cars work okayish, but modern computerized cars shit the bed around the magically talented.

It also seems to depend on a wizard's "power level"; Binder mentions that he can use an older model phone so long as he keeps it switched off when he's not using it, and also:

Found out about the bounty on Morgan on Craigslist.

Harry is mentioned many times to be a magical heavyweight, so he can't even drive a modern car for long. Makes me wonder what sort of fun side-effects someone like the Merlin would cause just walking down the street.

Probably fewer than Harry, honestly.

The Merlin is significantly more experienced than Harry, but not more powerful. Actually, Harry may have more raw power, even if he'd still lose because of the skill gap.

Strictly in terms of how much raw magical power they could pump per second, I mean.

You might be right. It was interesting in Skin Game seeing Harry contrasted with

(Skin Game spoilers)

Hannah Ascher. Harry's whole thing is fire magic but she makes him look like an amateur by comparison. Harry wields fire like a sledgehammer, Hannah wields it like a scalpel. Although she was being boosted by Lasciel at the time. It does hint that Harry could eventually be capable of some truly crazy shit if he ever learned to use a bit more finesse.

Skin Game

Yeah, letting a fallen angel just knowledge dump you will do that.

Harry uses fire because it's wizard 101. It's easy to use, easy to amplify, etc. His style is brute force in general - he probably uses kinetic smashes almost as often (with and without his knuckle bands), and after becoming Winter Knight he throws a ton of ice too. Although honestly, when fighting monsters and you need raw stopping power, the sledgehammer spell is probably appropriate, and Harry has a lot of stamina for flinging them out. But it also highlights nicely how much power is a function of experience and study for wizards. Harry is very good at slinging forces and energy around, but has a woeful lack of practice in subtler work (aside from also being well-practiced at thaumaturgy and such).

The title of most dangerous wizard probably goes to the Archive however. It's not a fair contest when she has the sum total of all human knowledge and the experience of all her predecessors. Can't remember which book, but she can basically curbstomp denarians with one finger. There's a reason the council considers her on par with the Ladies (I can't put much stock in Harry thinking that's an underestimate due to his inexperience).

Which reminds me - the part of being the Archive that means she knows anything anyone ever writes down has to be pretty useful for managing the Oblivion War, since agents can just write a report and immediately burn it.

I sometimes wonder why we never see Harry attempting to learn greater finesse.

It's like he's content to be a brawler. He looks at other practitioners and admires the skill and precision with which they handle their magicks - then just returns to blowing shit up.

I think it's more or less due to the timing of the books. I mean, he's in some ridiculous adventure about once a year - if not more regularly. Considering how often he gets shot or otherwise injured, that's not a ton of time to practice between recovery.

And as the series has gone along he's been tangling with stronger foes that respond well to sledgehammers.
Now that the

Weren't there also indications that younger wizards are less incompatible with newer tech? Like, really old wizards had problems with milk curdling and physical devices. Dresden's generation is okay with mechanical stuff, but has issues with electronics.

Like as the technology seems less magical to the wizard, it's less incompatible with magic, or something.

No, it’s just that the definition of “modern tech” adjusts over time. A long time ago, magical people curdled milk. Or prevented radios from working. Nowadays, 1950s cars work okayish, but modern computerized cars shit the bed around the magically talented.

That's literally exactly my argument? You just replaced the word newer with modern I guess?

You seemed to be tying it to the age of the wizard, rather than the state of the world. McCoy and the Merlin would be screwing up cell phones, too, not curdling milk. McCoy drives a 1940s-ish truck, not a horse and buggy.

Ah, well it does seem to be a bit both. Part consensus reality and part the wizard's own prejudices. Harry still can't use fancy electronics, but

Molly and Butters seem fine with electronics. And I forget what that group of minor hedge wizards were called, but don't they have like, a UseNet group or something?

Weren't there also indications that younger wizards are less incompatible with newer tech? Like, really old wizards had problems with milk curdling and physical devices. Dresden's generation is okay with mechanical stuff, but has issues with electronics.

Like as the technology seems less magical to the wizard, it's less incompatible with magic, or something.

No, it’s just that the definition of “modern tech” adjusts over time. A long time ago, magical people curdled milk. Or prevented radios from working. Nowadays, 1950s cars work okayish, but modern computerized cars shit the bed around the magically talented.

That's literally exactly my argument? You just replaced the word newer with modern I guess?

You seemed to be tying it to the age of the wizard, rather than the state of the world. McCoy and the Merlin would be screwing up cell phones, too, not curdling milk. McCoy drives a 1940s-ish truck, not a horse and buggy.

Ah, well it does seem to be a bit both. Part consensus reality and part the wizard's own prejudices. Harry still can't use fancy electronics, but

Molly and Butters seem fine with electronics. And I forget what that group of minor hedge wizards were called, but don't they have like, a UseNet group or something?

I don't think that's entirely right, at least not the examples. Skin Games spoilers

Butters is not a wizard. He's not even like, a minor "hedge wizard." At best he's maybe trending towards that at the very end of the series with Bob's help, but even that's implied to not really be Butters having any magic himself.

I don't think Molly uses any electronics until she gets Winter Lady'd, and then she can, but it becomes a bigger deal. Her apartment had some electronic security or something maybe? But that was definitely the svartalfs, not her.