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Uhm, how could they not deserve to win when they didn't surrender any goals?

In the league 7 years and on his 5th or 6th Vezina nom. But you are right, only 1 good season. Sather calls Lamoriello and offers Lundqvist for Marty straight up, are you saying Louie turns him down?

Yup and nominations mean sh!t if you don't actually win it. At least Brodeur in his prime had to compete with Roy, Hasek and Belfour. All Henrik has to compete with in his time in the NHL (since 2005) is Jeckyll and Hyde Luongo, basketcase sieve Bryz, overrated Rinne, and Brodeur who is in the twilight of his career and yet still won 2 Vezinas in the 7 years that Henrik has played.

When Lundqvist has won at least half of what Marty has won then we might have an actual conversation.

Greatest ever and greatest right now are 2 different things. We can talk about pad size all we want (it's bull, we know it), but the best goalie in the world is the Queen. The Devils clearly have a better team, though, and Marty's poise in big spots has been huge since game 3 in Florida. Do I make the trade? Yeah. Do I have a problem with riding Marty as far as he can go? Hell fvcking no. There's a reason he's either the G.O.A.T. or number 2 to Roy. Ahead of Hasek.

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Wonder if the Princess will be playing at Marty's level 13 years from now?

No one disputes he is good, but Rag fans practically claim he's the greatest that ever strapped on the pads........or in his case, the refrigerator doors (stolen)

yes, many rangers fans do. But, those are also the same fans who this morning are saying he is terrible for not getting another shutout last night. Point is, Marty is not better than Lundqvist, not anymore.

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Greatest ever and greatest right now are 2 different things. We can talk about pad size all we want (it's bull, we know it), but the best goalie in the world is the Queen. The Devils clearly have a better team, though, and Marty's poise in big spots has been huge since game 3 in Florida. Do I make the trade? Yeah. Do I have a problem with riding Marty as far as he can go? Hell fvcking no. There's a reason he's either the G.O.A.T. or number 2 to Roy. Ahead of Hasek.

I have to disagree with that, but that is a horse of a different color. Neither are ahead of Hasek, Tretiak, or Dryden (although what I saw of Dryden or Tretiak in their prime is limited to stuff on NHL Network and I guess in part from "folk lore".

My x-factor for Marty is his ability to make his teammates better. Hasek didn't even know guys names. Meanwhile, in the years after the lockout, Marty half coached kids and scrubs into a functional defense. I know he's not perfect --throwing Volch under the bus in the Florida series wasn't cool -- but throughout his career, he's been a tremendous teammate. Throw in his ability to handle the puck, and you have a special player.

I put Roy ahead of him, despite Roy's personality because of 2001. I know wins and losses are team efforts, but an old Roy summoned just enough to win, Marty in his prime had a couple of stinkers.

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Lundqvist is younger and better than Brodeur right now... but Brodeur isn't a scrub either right now.

Lundqvist is going to need to post shutouts to beat the Devils (or so it seems)... the Devs seem to control most of these games, but control doesnt mean getting the goals you need to win.

Honestly, if I'm neutral, I want my horse to be the Devils in this race. They seem to be playing the more complete game (to this point)... and the Rangers have been bailed out by Lundqvist. If your goalie is Byzgalov or any other lower caliber, but still decent NHL goalie, this series was a sweep for the Devils.

If the Rangers win this series, it's because of Lundqvist. It's silly to say he sucks, or that it is all pads... but I still hate him as a Devils fan.

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Greatest ever and greatest right now are 2 different things. We can talk about pad size all we want (it's bull, we know it), but the best goalie in the world is the Queen. The Devils clearly have a better team, though, and Marty's poise in big spots has been huge since game 3 in Florida. Do I make the trade? Yeah. Do I have a problem with riding Marty as far as he can go? Hell fvcking no. There's a reason he's either the G.O.A.T. or number 2 to Roy. Ahead of Hasek.

If we are playing the "here and now" game I would take Smith or Quick over Lundqvist any day of the week.

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Lundqvist is younger and better than Brodeur right now... but Brodeur isn't a scrub either right now.

Lundqvist is going to need to post shutouts to beat the Devils (or so it seems)... the Devs seem to control most of these games, but control doesnt mean getting the goals you need to win.

Honestly, if I'm neutral, I want my horse to be the Devils in this race. They seem to be playing the more complete game (to this point)... and the Rangers have been bailed out by Lundqvist. If your goalie is Byzgalov or any other lower caliber, but still decent NHL goalie, this series was a sweep for the Devils.

If the Rangers win this series, it's because of Lundqvist. It's silly to say he sucks, or that it is all pads... but I still hate him as a Devils fan.

If their goalie was Bryzgalov, they wouldn't be playing this style. They play the style they do because that is what is going to give them the best chance to win. They have a great goalie, a few highly skilled forwards in Richards, Gaborik, Kreider, a good d-core, forwards who will sell out on defense, and overall guys who have bought into this system. If Lundqvist wasn't as good as he is, the system wouldn't work.

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The NHL introduced a rule to limit Martys capacity and performance. Until someone else is penalised in a similar way the argument for Marty is to strong combind with the rest of his CV.

Which I said at the time was dumb. My belief has always been let the goalies go play the puck wherever, but let them be hit if they were out of their crease or not playing a shot. I don't think you would actually see goalies get lit up the way the powers that be believe it would happen. There would a be respect factor, for the same reason guys won't deliberately shoot at an opponent's head when they go down to block a shot. Would goalies get hit? Of course, but it wouldn't be open season. Players would be leery of their own goaltender getting run as retribution.

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Hasek never really had a lot of talent around him. Never had a Stevens, Niedermayer, White (when he was younger), even a Daneyko. He had scrappy forwards and Satan.

So by this logic Lundqvist isn't so good then - this taken with your about how the Rangers need to play this style to win -- the shot blocking style is the thing....

I also think Richards is your only shooter who can actually be counted on to hit the net consistently.

But I've got to honest here.

No doubt Lundqvist is a nice solid goalie. Marty in his prime is better. It's a good match up. I like Marty's attitude and style of communication WAY better. But sh!t with Tortorella as coach who gives a chit about any one players attitude. and WITHOUT Torts my gosh... the Rangers are just so far off the hockey path it is too laugh!

So all in all -- I'm really happy for Rangers fans (and the NHL) that they finally have a solid franchise player and a coach who understands hockey. But they are no Lou Lams Devils. Rangers situation is very tenuous and you should enjoy it while you've got it. You don't have to polish a turd for once probably in your entire (hockey fan) life time dude!!! You've got a little something going and I'm actually pretty happy for you -- and myself because I don't have to watch the crap MSG is usually serving.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Pepperkorn

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Which I said at the time was dumb. My belief has always been let the goalies go play the puck wherever, but let them be hit if they were out of their crease or not playing a shot. I don't think you would actually see goalies get lit up the way the powers that be believe it would happen. There would a be respect factor, for the same reason guys won't deliberately shoot at an opponent's head when they go down to block a shot. Would goalies get hit? Of course, but it wouldn't be open season. Players would be leery of their own goaltender getting run as retribution.

Are you kidding me? How naive are you? Every single time a game gets out of hand, or a series is tight some goon is going to run full speed at a goalie. Hell your player socked marty while he was in his crease, after a whistle! What do you think he would have done if he actually had a license to go further?

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Are you kidding me? How naive are you? Every single time a game gets out of hand, or a series is tight some goon is going to run full speed at a goalie. Hell your player socked marty while he was in his crease, after a whistle! What do you think he would have done if he actually had a license to go further?

No it won't. But, I can understand your concern as we do live in an age of over-reaction. Rupp gave Marty a shot which was no worse than what Kovalchuck did to Callahan. Again, I said when they are out of the net playing the puck. I do not mean a play where they are just outside their crease and they are freezing a puck. Meant more so when they go skating after a puck to play it to their defensemen.

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in the here and now i....thought Heeeeenriiiiik looked rattled last night....parise's rebound shouldve been held....salvador's shoot was weak and at ice lvl despite the players in front

if i was a ranger fan i would be worried

The Salvador shot he just didnt see until it was directly in front of him. Salvador just got it through, a seeing-eye shot as Olcyzk (I think) kept saying last night. The Parise shot? Lundqvist does tend to give up rebounds. The difference is the rangers skaters have been great all year at controlling the rebounds and/or tying up opponents so they can't get to rebounds. On that play, it just didn't happen. Not worried. Has been this teams M.O. all year and especially this play-offs.

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Are you kidding me? How naive are you? Every single time a game gets out of hand, or a series is tight some goon is going to run full speed at a goalie. Hell your player socked marty while he was in his crease, after a whistle! What do you think he would have done if he actually had a license to go further?

That was the point squish -- he was making a veiled threat -- not a serious post. The board was saying head hunt and he's saying we might just take out your goalie then....

I agree though, he seems to have missed the fact that Tortorella felt that was necessary even without the Devils head hunting. Scoring was enough for the Rangs to have to resort to cheap shots.

But what Matteau is saying is: If you win you deserve it. I'm sure he never posted once about "The Trap" being for sh!t. I'm sure he's never felt the Rangers turned in a near perfect game only to be beaten by a lucky bounce.

Seriously -- I think what you mean to say is "Deserves got nothin' to o with it" A win is a win and who gives a sh!t about deserves? After last nights display you just can't call some morality card here. Rags are in it to win it. Own the philosophy or guys like Rupp will embarrass you every time.