According to ESPN.com, the deal includes a player opt-out after the first year, which should guarantee at least a patina of effort from Davis, who's still only 28 (which surprised me at first blush). Davis is a mercurial talent who makes Maggette's defensive instincts seem like those of Shane Battier, but he's a capable catch-and-shoot scorer off the bench. He can also start on the wing in a pinch and give you 35+ minutes. Given what was out there, it's not a bad signing -- though Davis is the kind of guy you never want to watch down the stretch if your season turns to dreck.

Posted Wednesday, October 29 at 3:20PM

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This is a great addition to the clips bench: hart, gordon, davis, thomas and powell can do some damage, the more scorers around baron the better, although ricky has not been a winner who can blame him what good teams has he been on, pre lebron cavs celtics without garnett, heat with no wade or shaq this is a great deal for the price

Ricky Davis has played 10 NBA seasons, and the Clips will be his 7th team, with stops at Miami and Cleveland twice each..that makes 9 different teams in 7 cities in a decade. His last two teams Mia and Minn) had worse records than the Clips last year. This is either an amazing conincidence or a pattern. At the minimum, it's a collection of strong personalities (BD, Ricky, Camby, and Dunleavy) seeking an identity in what will presumably be an offense MD could't ever fathom in years past. If the dunce thought Maggs was a bad defender and decision maker, can't wait to see this. It's also alot of guys that need the ball in their hands

dunleavy got to game 7 of the western conference finals with those blazers, although they chocked in the end, got the lakers to finals, clips playoffs two years ago. he can win with talent. people are to hard on ricky davis, when was the last time u heard something negative about his play from coaches or teamates, he has more skills than maggette, just wont get to the free throw line like him

Wheres the risk in picking him up? He has a 2 year player option for dirt cheap. I don't think anyone against the pickup can name one unrestricted free agent willing to take 2.3 this year and 2.4 next year. On top of that, we have someone who can fill in for Mobley (cause everyone knows hes just about done) while Gordon develops into a real option around all-star time.

That said, I'd still rather have buike than him. But you can't argue with the numbers.

I like Ricky Davis. Ton of talent, averaged 20 points a game with about 5 boards and 5 assists in Cleveland. How many guys with a career average of 14 points a game are playing for $2.5 million? While a true headcase and career non-winner, he is a great value bet for 2 years. Please pull up the Youtube video of his triple double. I think he is better than Mobley anyways. Let Mobley be the steadying veteran and instant offense off the bench. Ricky can easily play off the ball like Stephen Jackson, go for steals, and facilitate Kambyman blocking tons of shots.

I like this move...there's no real way of telling how it'll turn out...but if anything I'm at least excited that we'll have a much more enjoyable team out there every night. Like I said before, dude is a head case but he puts up numbers off the bench and is a good finisher. Him running alongside Baron, Gordon, Thornton & Camby on the break should lead to lots of fun and some wins. Will this team win a title? No, but there wasn't much the front office could have done in that department anyway. I expect this team to be competitive in the playoff race and once you're in, you never know what can happen.

Not trying to rain on the "he's great for the bench" parade, but it's clear no contending team was beating down the door to get him.

Doesn't that scare anyone???

In other news, the Clips now have 11 players under contract. Livingston would be 13 and mostly on IR. Dickau is gone, Paul Davis is most likely gone, Ross is gone and Fazekas and Marcus Williams' chances of making the roster are unclear. With the team under the cap, something tells me another move is on the horizon.

Odomatic... its like you read my post and reworded it in your own words.

1. You mentioned hes a good pick-up (given so it won't count)
2. You make the comparison to Ricky Davis and Mobley.
3. You mention the value in picking him up with little to lose.
4. You Mention there not many other players to play for that amount.
5. You than make a comment about another GSW player...

I see the Ricky could fill it up but didn't know he's actually 6'7". This should help the Offense going when Al takes a breather. Good contract too for LAC. Maybe they know what they are doing all-along?

Clips management gets credit for trying to not have the same results as last season..wether they will be able to achieve that (both on the court and at the gate) are two different things. They had to make every effort to improve the team cause just about every season ticket holder has had about enough of this slop that we've been forced to pay for year after year.

I don't like Ricky Davis in the slightest and I am of the opinion that he's played on 9 different teams (7 cities) going into his 11th season for a reason. You don't play for that many teams if you are a positive infulence on the roster.

However, I am liking the new trend towards trying to score the basketball on the heels of basketball futility with Dickau/Knight/Ross as the guard rotation for much of last year. At least they are trying to score now, but if things start going sour, having Ricky Davis in the mix could accererate that trend like no one else.

I would have made an effort to bring Sofo over here before signing Ricky Davis, and risking having a tenous locker room. Does anybody really thing MD is going to be able to handle all these personalities AND install a brand new offense and have everyone buy in?

That to me seems like alot to ask of the dunce..its more likely to implode than work out if you ask me

I have HATED Ricky Davis for the last 5 years or so... for one reason. Because he's that guy on the other team that rips your heart out with big shots. He's done it to the Clippers at Staples at least 3 times. It should be fun to watch. I love Thornton, but Ricky will lead the team in scoring at least half a dozen times this year. Isnt that a nice option off the bench?

Sofo is like 400 lbs and is not the answer. I think they would have gone harder after him if they thought he was a better option than Paul Davis or DeAndre Jordan. Would have been nice last year, a rebuilding year.

You're absolutely right about the new dynamic scoring backcourt. Ross/Knight/Dickau/Conroy/Diaz was a disaster and made it hard to watch games.

One thing is certain: Dunleavy will be held accountable for this team's success. For the first time as a Clipper quasi-gm, this is HIS team. HE put it together himself. Now it's up to him to get the job done. He may have been able to do a better job if he was allowed to trade players he hated (for whatever reason). This is HIS team. No more excuses.

Whatever ACD, I am the voice of reason, and not swayed by every move the dunce makes. The dunce has been allowed to bring in his players..the entire lot of shitty ones are all his. We all know who I am talking about, don't need to list them all here. I cannot believe that you actually think that this is the first group he's assembled. Absolutely hysterical to me. Try thinking outside your dunce box once in a while, ACD.

Sofo has been averaging 15 mins on the greek natioal team, and most analysts think that the greek team is better than team USA again this year. Sure, he could probably use a nutritionist, but that would be a risk I would take, not bringing in a guy that is NBA poison year after year.

Boston gets rid of Ricky Davis one Summer, then brings in KG and Ray Allen the next, then proceeds to win the NBA title. Championships aside, he's never been on a winning team, ACD. What makes you think this will be his first?

The Clips would be better off with T2 backing up Thornton at the 3 and big Sofo and his new nutritionist backing up Kaman and Camby. Bringing in Ricky Davis is an absolutely horrible idea, especially with Dunleavy as coach..he will not be able to handle all these guys and install a new uptempo offense

John R, you are truly a clueless individual. Love the fact that you think I am a negative person, its more that I choose to use my brain and don't sit here and buy all the Clips BS like a damn sheep like most people. Don't shoot the messenger, and cause we don't agree ever does not make me an a-hole, it makes me have an opinion that is different than yours you clown. I love how brave some people are cowering behind their keyboard cause you sure as hell wouldn't say the above to my face. But that's what makes you who you are, John R.

T2 is a terrible power forward, he gives you nothing that most 4's do. I wouldn't have him on the team at all, and would be looking for a way to get rid of him all together if it was up to me

A few years ago, the Clippers had a plan... A big, strong, half-court style team with Elton Brand and Chris Kaman in the paint. They played from the inside out... Add Mobley and Radmonovich (later Tim Thomas) to shoot outside and spread the defense, with Maggette slashing into the gaps, Ross to defend the great 2s, and it was a strong group... If Livingston had developed as hoped (and expected) it would have been a championship contender. A team that had everything but speed. A perfect Dunleavy team built for the slower, power oriented game of playoff basketball.

We saw how good that team was becoming a few years ago when it got within a basket of the conference finals...

Well, that was then... This group didn't come together as part of a plan, but was put together more as an act of desperation like the Denver Nuggets were a few years ago... A team with great talent, that never got past mediocrity because the pieces didn't fit.

Still, given the circumstances, I commend the Clippers for at least trying... I had season tickets from '87 until I moved in '96 and I remember the years when they didn't even try... When you sat in the stands and could hear the clock ticking down.

This should be an entertaining team... There's pretty good talent, but adding Ricky Davis about sums it up... This group is a bunch of random parts thrown together in the hopes that they can be tamed, and molded into a fast, sleek Ferrari... At this point, I'd accept a Chevy... Though experience has taught me to expect a Yugo.

This is likely the most unpredictable team in the NBA for the coming season...

TW, you are one brave individual my friend, guys like you don't "cower" behind their keyboards, they say mature, stand-up, intelligent things like, " I bet you wont say it to my face" behind their keyboards. The Clips will have meaningful games this year past the all-star break, and they will need a few breaks to go their way to make it in as the 8th seed. But I am definetly liking what management is doing.

This has got to be the most unpredictable team in the NBA for as long as I can remember.
We've got to build the chemistry and hopefully get a big guy just to be "there" and hopefully, we could resign Livingston and just keep him in a clippers uniform.
Granted, keeping Shaun wouldn't be so much of a basketball move but a team does need chemistry and if any team needs to show that it really does care about the fans, it's us.

TW - don't worry about John R. He's a negative, depressed individual who clearly has issues. He spends his day on ClipsNation quoting website interpretations of the collective bargaining agreement without attribution, looking for validation, and attacking anyone who doesn't agree with his views.

The last comment from Pat makes sense. Adding Davis as the final piece, this team might make the playoffs now, or it might completely implode.

Davis seems to have the bad karma around him, even though he's a decent player. And on one hand you could argue that he was signed for below market value, but on the other hand see that no other team was willing to offer him half of the MLE. Smells a little like Houston signing Bonzi Wells for what seemed like a bargain deal at the time. It didn't work out so well there as Wells spent the next year shellshocked that he was making far less money than what he'd rejected from the Kings.

If Davis can put that behind him, he can really help, but we don't know for sure. He's turned his act around somewhat the last few years, but somewhat surprisingly it wasn't enough to create a major market for him.

Support Ricky Davis. He's on our team now. Maybe some Clipper Fan Appreciation will have a positive effect on him. He's got talent and he's made some mistakes in his career. Who hasn't, especially in the NBA. Give the guy a break, its not like he stabbed the Clippers in the back like EB did. He's here, andhe wants to be here. I say welcome to LA Ricky! CLippers are going to the Western Conf. Finals baby!

Interesting story about Clippers asking for a first round draft pick from the Knicks along with Randolph. Looks like the Clippers are a shrewd bunch these days and the Knicks really wanted to get rid of his contract.

Jon, there's a difference between being negative and expressing ones views with a perpertually frustrating Clipper experiance. Clearly, some of us like the gluttony of punishment the Clips give us, and some of us would prefer that they did a better job making decisions- and we choose to express our views rather than not.

Jax, ya bro, I could care less what John R thinks. He's a tool that doesn't get out much, and anyone that knows me know that I like to mix it up with people. It's all good natured actually, some people get it and some don't. Jax I got your next drink at Staples just let me know dude

Wow,
This could be the Clippers best off season EVER, or it could be their worst. The thing is, if the Clippers do implode and this experiment doesn't work out, it is only a 2 year experiment at best with Mobley, Thomas, Camby, R. Davis coming off the books in 2010 (next year in the final year of their contracts they could be dumped early too if the Clips implode).

This isn't a make or break team, they have a year together to try it out, and if not, then we can try something else out. The point is we are making a move and trying something, which makes me more excited than ever as a Clipper fan, and if it doesn't work out we have options!

I LOVE THE CLIPPERS!

I also want to thank Elton Brand, because this new look Clippers team has more talent and will be more exciting to watch than if the Clippers kept EB. Still hate the fucker, but we are much better off without him!

Chris. - I agree. It's a talented team that makes sense short-term and long-term. R. Ravis' contract expires in 2010 at the latest, adding to the salary cap space (or they make for some good bargaining chip if the right deal comes along for teams looking to get cap themselves). Chemistry will be an issue, but then again having too many talented players is a refreshing problem. And for all the FO moves spear-headed by Dunleavy, the onus for wins will be on him.

I wouldn't thank Brand for anything. Things worked despite Brand, not because of him.

Not a fan of this signing. He's got talent but he's a me-first coach killing cancer. Remember when he was traded from the Wolves (I think) to Boston? Boston went right to the cellar. Coincidence? I think not. As somoene else pointed out, 7 teams in 10 years is not a good sign.

Only upside is that, with his option, he will be playing to impress. And I'm writing off the season anyway.

I can see that Al Thornton will be the key. I can see him having the same success as another Clipper sophomore did in the Clippers 1st season in LA: Derek Smith. I can see over 20ppg, 5 reb, 2.5 ast getting ~35 mpg. If Eric Gordon can get ~12 - 16 mpg then LAC will really have something good.

Ricky Davis is just insurance for Mobley going down or Al just not being able to handle the minutes. Anyway who had a better year in 07-08, Mobley or Davis. Look it up for yourself. LAC has done a good job building a deep team.

that's not a curse... i am simply trying to deflect all the negative talk going on around here.

we already know this team and coach are limited. but it has to be better than last year.

What does Baron Davis getting benched by Don Nelson have ANYTHING to do with the Clippers? He can be asking for a trade? Cut the bullshit, man. He came to L.A. for the money and to be "home". Just stop it.

Kaman only played limited minutes because he was getting killed all alone down there. I almost felt bad for him at times. Powell and TThomas are not what i call complementary power forwards to a nice solid center.

Gordon isnt expected to help that much, that's why they still have Mobley starting, and Ricky Davis in to help shoulder some of the load.

ACD, there's a difference in negativity and reality. Quite honestly, the Clips don't deserve the benefit of the doubt with their recent track record, and all commentary here is simply pointing out things that valid concerns, especially when we're talking about Ricky Davis. I cannot believe the Clips are willing to risk bringing this guy in after rebounding somewhat nicely (Azubuike would have been real nice) after the EB debacle. Gordon was the wrong pick too, but that's another discussion

Does anyone else work here? Seems like everone has time to put down 3-4 comments.

But hey, there are points taken to both arguments as to why Ricky Davis should have or should not have been picked up. But one thing is for sure... This season will definitely be much more fun to watch.

(Strangely Gordon is still wearing the #23 jersey in the photos, even though Camby has the seniority for the number and the Clippers.com roster lists Gordon as #10 now. If this was really shot today as the captions say, you have to wonder why the NBA didn't have his new #10 jersey ready.)

Too bad Isiah isn't coaching any more. He would have been unsure which is Camby and which is Gordon, so he'd put Nate Robinson on Camby in the deep post and have Eddy Curry at the 3 point line ready to guard Gordon off the dribble.

i just hope its not another one of those moves you think its going to have an enormous impact before the season...but then once the season comes around it turns out to be a total flop. shortly after teh season, we waive him or trade him. (i.e.: ruben patternson signing) i really thought he had a real shot at contributing major to the clippers but instead turned out to be more washed up than ever. but davis does look more promising than the ex-"Kobe Stopper"

ACD, I was starting to come around to the new look Clips until they fucked up and threw Ricky Davis aka NBA poison into the mix. They are trying to improve the team and I commend them for that, but there's a right way to do that and a wrong way. Ricky Davis to me if not a positive step forward cause he's a dickhead and wears out his welcome everywhere he goes, so what makes you think this is gonna be different?

Truth be told the Clips tried to land OJ Mayo in the draft, but Minn snatched him up before Seattle's pick. Then the Clips make an educated guess at snagging Azubuike away from GS, which had a good shot at working out but didn't. Like I said, they are trying but coming up short. You like to see the effort but just can't understand the Ricky Davis signing. To me, the downside is too great but whatever, now they have Maggs scoring replacement so there should be no more excuses, right? And don't get your panties in a bunch if a couple people look at this with a cast eye, it is Ricky Davis we're talking about

ACD - With all due respect, people have the right to express their dissapontment over the Ricky Davis signing. I personally think he is a knucklehead, but a reasonable gamble given the circumstances (low-cost, short contract, FA pool running dry). I also think his "poison" label is slightly overblown (he was a part of some awful teams, but not the singular cause of their awfulness).

Also, this is KA's house and we are the guests. He will start a new post when the situation calls for one.

I agree with JM above. Little Ricky may be a knucklehead, but the "circumstances" (see JM's post above) work out great for the team. And yes, he was on some awful teams (especially Celtics and Heat), but at least he played balls-out 24/7.

i saw a riley quote saying ricky gave them no problems in miami. don't know if there was trouble after that.

if this is the team going to the gate, it's quite a comeback from the eb mess and what could've been.

can't see calling anyone a captain at this point. i don't doubt bd will become the guy with or without the label if he stay's healthy and things don't go haywire. but let's see something in a clips jersey first.

1. With Brand gone, Kaman is the man inside and responds as a consistent 18 and 10 man.

2. Camby or Kaman proves willing and able to go outside when necessary and handle some of the quicker 4's, like Stoudemier, Boozer, etc.

3. Tim Thomas is only needed about 20 minutes a game and makes his threes.

4. Thornton takes the next step and is the real deal. He becomes not just a good scorer, but an outstanding player who helps a team win.

5.Mobley enjoys the faster pace and rediscovers his athleticism of a few years ago.

6. Gordon is the shooter we hope... Because if he can make shots, with his quickness, he'll be impossible to guard. He'll get to the line like Maggette did. He's not Bo Kimble; he's Ben Gordon, or, dare I say it, Duane Wade lite.

tw, Correct me if I'm wrong but 5 posts saying you think Ricky Davis stinks, we get your opinion and your point, and if I fly out from Oz to catch up with you at seat 103 or whatever you better be saving me one of those seats.

Azubuike, I was looking forward too, but tell me who else other than Davis was available at the money. All I know is that he suited up 82 games last year, we didn't have too many that did. Don't know really anything about him to have an opinion, but a few here have really sunk the boots in. At least give him a chance, beacuse its a signed deal now, and regardless of what people think he's here.

Don't really get the trade for Artest on the Rockets behalf because he would be taking mintues away from either Battier or T-Mac. Also think the Rockets would try to trade for an all-star caliber PG or PF.

ON THE OTHER HAND- This could be a move to help improve the chances of T-Mac not getting hurt through the regular season. I believe once The Rockets have a playoff spot they will use Artest more so T-Mac can be 100% come playoff time. How they expect to lesson the regualar season load of injuries for Yao is yet to be seen.
As it relates to the Clippers: I don't really see a big deal other than the few games we would play against them. Rockets are not a team I felt we have to beat out for a 7-8 seed. If we get lucky and get close to a 5-6 seed then yes this may be a problem.
ON RICKY DAVIS:If the fans don't get behind him, he will notice it and figure "why should I even bother."

Last two years I have not heard a bad report about R.Davis (other than Shaq but come on thats Shaq). Which makes me believe the guy just didn't fit what certain teams were looking for.

There are two Key postives I love about Ricky Davis.

-Worked hard as hell even on losing teams. If as a unit the Clippers are successful than Ricky can take his game to a higher level as a role player.

-Potential he brings as bench player. He's not going to be mentoring Gordon and Joradan Ricky just has to make sure he does his part and come off strong off the bench.

As for the Triple-double thing, I found it highly funny. But people seem to forget off his play he almost legit got a Triple Double. Do any of you know how hard that is to do. Lebron and Kobe can't do it most of the time.

If Ricky Davis is on your team....your team will suck. He was on my for 3 years. A cancer, who likes to read the morning box score. All stats, no wins. Like Shareef Abdur-Rahim. Its nice to look at the positive and be optimistic. I'm telling you, as someone who has experienced the evil magic of Ricky Davis, the Clippers are done.

Corey Maggette looks like a Rhodes Scholar next to Ricky Davis. And realistically, only $2.5M more than Corey said hed resign in LA for. If Dumbleavy hated Corey as much as was written about, imagine the depths of disdain he will have for Ricky Davis by December. He's like Corey-lite, except no teamwork, and half the commitment to conditioning. Hes more worried bout his hair and stat line than he is about winning, hes given up in the third quarters of many games. LeBron said he didnt want the guy anywhere near his team.

Corey had class and still didn't believe in giving up in a game even if down 20 with 2 minutes to go. He always played to win. Always did his best to change the outcome even though it wasnt the smartest thing to do.

Corey was forged out of winning against odds. He went to Duke and won a championship with one of the most legendary Duke lineups in history. Elton Brand his teammate in college. Every year he commits himself to playing to the best of his ability. He just wills things to happen on the court that normally shouldnt. Hes all heart and determination.

Ricky Davis has gone from team to team, derided by players and coaches alike. Sure, he's only 2.5M, but hes also a marker of just how much of our soul we lost in order to get here. Ricky is the "big shot" guy that tears your teams heart out of its chest? Puhleeze. Ricky can be a creative offensive minded street baller, but lets be real, in the context of his team its Ricky Davis who thinks only about Ricky Davis. Ricky Davis is our thug, our hitman for a season or two but hes not synonymous with winning. He is a cancer. Hes not someone you sign when your organization is emerging from the depths of hell, but the guy you call when you are on a road straight to it. Signing Ricky Davis says, "My season is in the tank. I want a top 3 pick like Miami and still sell tickets."

Thats what Ricky Davis means to LA. And why he only got 2.5M as a free agent. People who average 15ppg throughout their career and help you to win games wont take 2.5m a year, they get paid 10m a year and leave your franchise.

You are crazy if you think Corey would have stayed in LA for $5 mil when GS was offering him double. I don't care what he said. As we see time and time again, what players say has very little to do with what they actually do, especially when they are free agents.

what's with all the negativity in here... we just gotta roll with the ball just like all us clippernation has been doing for many years...these free agent signings are making me very happy whether or not a person bad with other teams or how many teams a persons been you guys gotta get over it, it's not like we're a championship caliber team in the past...this to me is a huge step forward no matter who we pick up, so let the season start and we'll talk about all this later, just be happy the clippers management is actually stepping up and growing some balls to make our clippers a better team...let the season do the talking!!! and we'll just comment!!

One thing you have to remember is the Clips have shown no hesitation whatsoever in dropping players who didn't work out like the proverbial bad habit. Remember Glen Rice, Ruben Patterson, Doug Christie, etc. If Ricky Davis messes up, he's gone, baby, gone!

How about we start a thread about the greatest Clippers of all time! With a 2 season minimum because we know a bunch of greats have worn the jersey for a short period of time. Here is my list in no particular order.
1. Bob McAdoo
2. Elton Brand
3. Danny Manning
4. Ron Harper
5. World B. Free

Kirbs, it's not about the 'value' that the Clips got Ricky Davis for, to me it's more about the fact that he's ALWAYS been a good player on a bad team, and a generally an all around bad dude to have around. My point is why risk bringing this guy in. The price could have been 500K and I would still say don't do it. Clipper Pats post above gave a good recap of the possible downside. He's an offensive talent, sure, but he's not the type of guy that I would want around my young players. I haven't talked to one person that follows the NBA that thinks this is a smart move for the Clips, save a few blind faith fans here

The clippers depth is much improved from last year as long as injuries dont devastate us like they did last year... that said ricky davis and the baron and gordon all would play better in a run and gun offense which dunleavy has nightmares about. The clippers in my mind are far better than last year and would defiantly make the eastern conference playoffs. Im just nervous about the loaded western conference. Who's spot do we take from last year? The rockets? the Jazz? The Mavericks?

Clips were able to keep games close but with their pg's inability to score caused the team to go on major scoring droughts while the opponent made their buckets.
They would also get out rebounded most nights because kaman could not do it all him self. So having Camby contributing in that department and B.Davis contributing in the pg dept. , Doubling the 23 wins is pretty certain.

I think Phoenix is also beatable now, cause the Shaq experiment won't work. I think the Spurs and the Mavs are getting old too. All those teams may finish ahead of us, but who knows. The key to the playoffs is going to be can the Clippers routinely beat/sweep the bad teams (Memphis/Oklahoma City/Sacramento, etc.) because the West is so loaded, that the top teams will beat up on each other a couple of times.

I was just stating that every player goes A-Wall when things aren't going the way they want.

My favorite player in the NBA KG spent all those years as a T'Wolv because he did not want to be precieved as Rick Davis and as others for stating that wanted out and eventually becoming a large negative target by the media (Even though some still do critize him). After all those years it took an interview that showed him mentally breaking down to get him to go.

Davis is no KG by a long shot though. But some players just don't fit in certain envoirments.

No matter if Ricky Davis has the perfect year on and off the court people around the league and world will discredit him for his past.

So why as Clipper fans should we throw gas on the fire. Instead give him a chance cheer when he does something great and let him feel at home. Maybe then he may not have to act like a jerk.
If Ricky messes up and tries to bring the team down drop him. I can't see the Clippers organization allowing Ricky to continue to play on their team if he starts acting out, not after all the effort they put in rebuilding this team and franchise.
If the clippers still have a losing season without Davis throwing any fit or hurting the team then it's all on the coaching staff.