02.03.2011 - Enlightenment

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Dao Yheng: a real teaching dream
Mickorod Renard: well,,it was more to do with my sub concious,,rather than my practice
Dao Yheng: do you think?
Dao Yheng: how so?
Mickorod Renard: i am more christian
Mickorod Renard: Hi Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: /me laughs that it is always so tricky just trying to come in and sit...hehe
Dao Yheng: hi eliza! like your bunny shoes :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Hello again
Dao Yheng: Hi Aphro and sunshine :)
Mickorod Renard: lovely dress Eliza
Sunshine Vayandar: hi there again ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: hi Dao ;)
Eliza Madrigal: :)) Thank you dao! ooOoo gave them to me for the year of the rabbit :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello everyone :)
Ataraxia Azemus: Yes, Eliza!
Eliza Madrigal: Nice to see everyone!
Sunshine Vayandar: yes Eliza finally see you ;) prettyyy
Mickorod Renard: Hi gaya,,hi sunshine
Mickorod Renard: Hi aphro
Ataraxia Azemus: I've apparently gotten stuck in the window, somehow...
Sunshine Vayandar: hi Mick ;)
Eliza Madrigal: Oh you couldn't see me before Sun? :)
Mickorod Renard: Atar :)
Mickorod Renard: ayup zen
Dao Yheng: Hi Atar and Zen :)
Zen Arado: Hi All
Xeno Octavia: hi folkes
Sunshine Vayandar: hi all ;)
Mickorod Renard: hi xeno
Dao Yheng: Xeno :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Xeno
Aphrodite Macbain: whew.
Eliza Madrigal: exhausting trying to sit sometimes eh? ha
Zen Arado: hi Xeno
Dao Yheng: http://waysofknowing.kira.org/
Xeno Octavia: hi Ari bak there : )
Aphrodite Macbain: /me smiles at Eliza
Mickorod Renard: souts,,hi Ariiii
Arisia Vita: Hi all, good to see you
Sunshine Vayandar: hi Ari ;)
Eliza Madrigal: Quite a topic you guys chose last week
Gaya Ethaniel: I want to tell you also about our new forum - http://waysofknowing.kira.org/forum/index.php
Eliza Madrigal: !
Eliza Madrigal: thanks Gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: Please let me know if you want to use it so that I can create accounts for you.
Eliza Madrigal: the forum is for ongoing discussions along the week?
Zen Arado: thanks Gaya
Zen Arado: looks good
Gaya Ethaniel: Anything really ... we will have to organise as we go along into sections :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: I will create accounts for those who are on wiki anyway.
Zen Arado: ok good
Gaya Ethaniel: Please thank Calvino if you see him around because he helped me setting it up, done all the work.
Sunshine Vayandar: Can u create one for me?
Gaya Ethaniel: Please IM your email address to me Sun.
Zen Arado: thanks Cal
Xeno Octavia: i think i have account --not sure how get there --passw ord i guess
Sunshine Vayandar: ok ;) ty
Eliza Madrigal: Dao really loved your report, not that that's unusual :), would you like to say more?
Dao Yheng: ha -- how did you know I'm still trying to finish it :) ?
Eliza Madrigal: /me laughs
Dao Yheng: enlightenment as a topic was really pulling me in two directions this week
Dao Yheng: some sweet, some sour :)
Eliza Madrigal: hmm
Zen Arado: seung sahn aid that looking for enlightenment is a big mistake
Dao Yheng: yes, exactly!
Eliza Madrigal: where does one look?
Xeno Octavia: who's looking if ego yes cant find
Gaya Ethaniel: sweet and sour :)
Zen Arado: so maybe we should abandon thinking about it?
Xeno Octavia: i 'learned ' 'enlightenment' is not giving a sh--!
Zen Arado: some forms of Budhism sem to advise working for it?
Zen Arado: Theravadin?
Xeno Octavia: my basic practice is carelessness , fearlessness and hopelessness
Mickorod Renard: I would prefer to think of it more as our path in life,,and how we take lessons from it
Zen Arado: about enlightenment Xeno?
Xeno Octavia: what about zen??
Zen Arado: a path suggests somewhere to get to thoigh
Eliza Madrigal: Christianity's equivalent seems to be 'work out your salvation with fear and trembling'...
Eliza Madrigal: and yet the work is to rest in what is already accomplished
Xeno Octavia: throw poath away just be!!
Zen Arado: Zen says there is nothing to attain I think
Eliza Madrigal: 'labor to enter into rest'
Mickorod Renard: well,,thats the point,,maybe,,with some work finally one reaches enlightenment
Aphrodite Macbain: The practice involves discipline however, not simply "doing nothing"
Sunshine Vayandar: pathless path hmm
Zen Arado: we wrok hard to realize there is nowhere to get to?
Eliza Madrigal: I like what you're saying though Xeno... in a way... 'give up' but in that there is *something* one is giving up?
Aphrodite Macbain: /me smiles at Zen
Xeno Octavia: not finally reaches --finally or just clears the sh-- away already haves it!!
Zen Arado: my teacher told me something along those lines
Aphrodite Macbain: one gives up one's ego, no?
Mickorod Renard: the path is where we are,,but we do go places
Eliza Madrigal: well ego can't give itself up?
Aphrodite Macbain: we are more than our ego though
Xeno Octavia: yes aph --why ego cant be enlightened is absense of ego
Dao Yheng: listening that leads to letting go?
Zen Arado: yes Xeno
Dao Yheng: at the same time, ego isn't exactly an exception to the buddha field either
Eliza Madrigal: /me nods
Mickorod Renard: enjoying what we have along the path without longing for some other place along the path,,is like giving up some ego
Zen Arado: if the ego tries to manage its own extinction it won't do a good job
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Eliza Madrigal: like training one's replacement... maybe don't give *all* the secrets...
Xeno Octavia: ego is game we play role play --but if think we it then we caught up --attached
Aphrodite Macbain: perhaps the super ego has to do it, Someone has to!
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
Zen Arado: like a thief pretending to be a poicdeman as Marshi says
Xeno Octavia: suoupr ego freud i fraud
Zen Arado: agree with Mick
Zen Arado: pauses and reads
Dao Yheng: yes -- that longing turns everything into a doppelganger
Eliza Madrigal: we often talk i terms of letting go *of* but not too much about letting go *to*
Gaya Ethaniel: /me looks up 'doppelganger'
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Zen Arado: and tells us what it means Gaya?
Xeno Octavia: u mean like refufe from rathern refuge in
Eliza Madrigal: proliferating
Gaya Ethaniel: ooo
Mickorod Renard: living without exess bagage helps one to enjoy the moments
Eliza Madrigal: projections
Xeno Octavia: gang of two
Dao Yheng: boo!
Gaya Ethaniel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doppelg%C3%A4nger
Ataraxia Azemus: /me wonders if Gaya's doppelganger is looking up "Gaya" right now...
Eliza Madrigal: heheheh
Zen Arado: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Gaya's double
Eliza Madrigal: !!
Eliza Madrigal: (those took a while to show up)
Aphrodite Macbain: made her do it!
Xeno Octavia: hi Atari : ))
Zen Arado: Hi Atari
Mickorod Renard: Hi Atar
Ataraxia Azemus: Hi everyone :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Ataraxia :)
Sunshine Vayandar: hi Ataraxia ;)
Eliza Madrigal: when writing my report I just felt that the word is misleading
Zen Arado: maybe some of us are enlightened and don't know it?
Mickorod Renard: I can only talk from my experience,,rather than practice ,,i have found now that I have missed so much of my life by wanting and longing and putting value into things that dont bring happiness
Eliza Madrigal: that light to most of us still implies a kind of heaven to seek
Eliza Madrigal: which separates us from what is, divides everything
Eliza Madrigal: /me nods @ Mick... similar point really....
Eliza Madrigal: wanting and longing for something 'outer' or an 'event' that will fix everything (us)
Ataraxia Azemus: We can still pursue an ideal happiness, but the best (well, only) place to start is with what we already have
Mickorod Renard: dont get me wrong,,I have been very fortunate,,but still,,I am learning
Zen Arado: "I explain to you matters
Pertaining to enlightenment,
But don't try to keep
Your mind on them.
Just turn to the ocean
Of your own essence
And develop practical accord with its nature."
Zen Arado: I like that quote from Eliza's report
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Mickorod Renard: very nice ty
Sunshine Vayandar: ㋡
Dao Yheng: yes, somehow it reminds me of Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: /me smiles
Zen Arado: 'the ocean of your own essence' beautiful
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Beautiful Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: I've posted it before... one of my favoritists...heh
Dao Yheng: :))
Aphrodite Macbain: I imagine a changing, moving, rolling presence
Zen Arado: is our essence beautiful?
Aphrodite Macbain: Perhaps. it just IS
Zen Arado: our Buddha nature
Eliza Madrigal: :)))
Aphrodite Macbain: like the weather
Zen Arado: yes why do I qualify it?
Eliza Madrigal: too close
Mickorod Renard: its funny,,it reminds me of where I am now,,by becoming less selfish i have bacome more at home in my ocean,,which implies selfish
Aphrodite Macbain: deserve it Zen?
Dao Yheng: but it isn't, right Mick?
Dao Yheng: somehow the ocean of your own essence turns out to be everything
Eliza Madrigal: mmmm
Zen Arado: we don't deserve anything do we?
Mickorod Renard: I dont think it is Dao,,but one becomes seperate in a way from others around
Zen Arado: we just go with what is
Aphrodite Macbain: part of everything like the wave in the ocean
Xeno Octavia: if bodhicitta is esential to all of us then qualify for is meaningless
Zen Arado: yes and comparing and judging everything
Aphrodite Macbain: who knows/decides what we deserve
Aphrodite Macbain: it is a culturally created concept
Zen Arado: don't think there is anybody Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: except, perhaps, us
Zen Arado: except the laws of the land
Aphrodite Macbain: whose land?
Zen Arado: or ourselves yes
Aphrodite Macbain: whose laws?
Aphrodite Macbain: and they change all the time
Mickorod Renard: our choices in life have a way of deciding outcomes,,either bodily or mentally
Zen Arado: but that is only our formulation - what should be
Aphrodite Macbain: right Zen
Ataraxia Azemus: Zen, that reminds me of the first lines in a movie (Mr. Nobody), where the narrator talks about how we think we deserve things, good or bad, because we see the world in relation to ourselves, instead of ourselves as a part of the world
Zen Arado: or we think should be
Eliza Madrigal: mmmm Ataraxia
Aphrodite Macbain: yes, we hold ourselves separate
Zen Arado: yes Atar
Aphrodite Macbain: rather than connected
Eliza Madrigal: There is a quote... has to do with trying to remove obstacles from one's life until realizing that those obstacles are one's life :)
Zen Arado: we have to separate ourselves to get a viewpoint
Zen Arado: yes Eliza
Aphrodite Macbain: cannot we see from within than from without?
Ataraxia Azemus: I can relate to that, Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Mickorod Renard: nice Eliza,,some obstacles can be reviewed and seen as interesting challenges
Aphrodite Macbain: I agree, they become par of our experience, part of the ocean
Zen Arado: we need them to become enlightened?
Xeno Octavia: yes Eliza we needs rid self of life ego life as attachment anyways : 00
Eliza Madrigal: the big E can't be a goal in itself... like "bodhicitta" isn't a "goal"
Zen Arado: they help us see what's important
Zen Arado: so what is it to be enlightened?
Ataraxia Azemus: Or maybe we need them once enlightened. Little troubles that make up so much of our lives become the proverbial wood to chop and water to carry
Eliza Madrigal: Hi cute little Wol :))
Zen Arado: we think it is some blissful state maybe
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Dao Yheng: Hi small wol!
Zen Arado: Hi Wol
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Xeno Octavia: yes Bodhicitta not a goal if we already have it as a seed of Bodhisattva
Wol Euler: /me waves miniaturely
Mickorod Renard: Hi Wol
Eliza Madrigal: your tail is the same size as you :D
Xeno Octavia: hi Wol
Ataraxia Azemus: Hi Wol
Aphrodite Macbain: Free from desire
Sunshine Vayandar: is it when we don't separate ourselves from everything that is outside of us?
Eliza Madrigal: mmmm
Aphrodite Macbain: free from attachments and compassionae with the world
Zen Arado: who wantsto be freew from desire?
Eliza Madrigal: yes not threatened by everything including our own shadows...
Aphrodite Macbain: I do Zen
Zen Arado: we would be cold and emotionless then?
Eliza Madrigal: I don't think it is free *from* desire.. but desire *and* free... something like that
Aphrodite Macbain: no, just not needy
Eliza Madrigal: beyond, implies something
Xeno Octavia: maybe freely desirous better
Mickorod Renard: I had a funny thought thismorning,,semi christian perhaps,,but I wondered if we had two spirits,,one the greddy bobily one,,and the other more spiritual and God given..one is in conflict with the other,,and we need to let go of the bodily one and enjoy the other
Zen Arado: being able to live with desires and not get swept away with them maybe?
Ataraxia Azemus: Maybe enlightenment is reaching a harmony between intent and action
Aphrodite Macbain: needing is depending
Mickorod Renard: that was greedy bodily*
Zen Arado: that's very Christian Mick I think
Calvino Rabeni: that sounds true atar
Eliza Madrigal: /me considers... Mick, yes @ Zen
Sunshine Vayandar: to be on a constant high but in a calm way?
Xeno Octavia: Dharm a--not anti-body
Eliza Madrigal: equalness
Aphrodite Macbain: I kinda liked bobily
Aphrodite Macbain: liked
Mickorod Renard: :)
Wol Euler: /me bobils
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
Ataraxia Azemus: That reminds me of Blake, Mick...but I think I Blake liked embracing both spirits
Mickorod Renard: he he
Dao Yheng: :))
Ataraxia Azemus: -I
Zen Arado: the body seen as evil fighting a purer spirit?
Aphrodite Macbain: the lion and the lamb
Eliza Madrigal: yes 'absent from the body/present with the lord' still sets up duality?
Mickorod Renard: yeh,,I am all for a bit of self abuse too,,good ol blake
Aphrodite Macbain: Did he who made the lamb make thee?
Wol Euler: /me giggles.
Zen Arado: :)
Dao Yheng: when my sense perceptions are functioning smoothly, I find a lot of delight in that -- bliss, really
Ataraxia Azemus: "Man has no Body distinct from his Soul; for that called Body is a portion of Soul discerned by the five Senses, the chief inlets of Soul in this age."
Ataraxia Azemus: hehe
Aphrodite Macbain: Do we have a soul? where is it located?
Calvino Rabeni: The body is part of the soul.. also expressed by John O'Donohue
Mickorod Renard: thats too deep for me atar
Eliza Madrigal: mmm, nods @ Dao...
Eliza Madrigal: "This very land, this very body"
Xeno Octavia: very tru Atari
Eliza Madrigal: one sec (brb)
Eliza Madrigal: wow we stunned ourselves into silence
Wol Euler: /me smiles.
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Must go and tend to RL and find my soul
Ataraxia Azemus: Silent contemplation? :)
Ataraxia Azemus: Take care, Aphrodite!
Eliza Madrigal: :) Bye Aph
Gaya Ethaniel: Bye Aphrodite :)
Wol Euler: bye aph, take care
Sunshine Vayandar: byebyee Aphrodite ;)
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye! all
Dao Yheng: bye!
Mickorod Renard: as for the ego,,and enlightenment,,I ..my new self,,have a hunger for new insights and a more loving me,,I do get anxious I may not live long enough to learn everything
Dao Yheng: I'm still thinking about Mick's comment -- something in that :)
Zen Arado: bye Aph
Mickorod Renard: bye Aphro
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes me too ... just thinking about various comments so far and reports ...
Mickorod Renard: ayup cal,,btw,,thanks for doing the web stuff
Zen Arado: Hi Cal :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes thanks for setting up the forum Cal :)
Calvino Rabeni: YW ...
Dao Yheng: Oh yes, I wonder if I am reading fast enough too!
Xeno Octavia: lol Mick u have many lifetimes : ))
Calvino Rabeni: Is the forum going intou use?
Mickorod Renard: too many
Sunshine Vayandar: I am thinking - it is easier to talk about something once we have experienced it ;)
Mickorod Renard: all ready
Calvino Rabeni: /me smiles at Sun
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes I will set up accounts as soon as possible. Hopefully people will start using it.
Zen Arado: or maybe not Sun
Sunshine Vayandar: I think Osho said - it's better to taste the honey - than trying to explain how it tastes hm
Zen Arado: maybe it is indescribable
Dao Yheng: :)
Sunshine Vayandar: may be not ;)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Calvino Rabeni: go for the taste, skip the infomercial
Ataraxia Azemus: I think we all worry about that, don't we? Once we're aware of our mortality, nothing seems long enough to finish, to have a sense of completeness...we'll always have unfinished business
Sunshine Vayandar: just my experience from life in general ;)
Mickorod Renard: thats a nice one sunshine..is that like koans?
Gaya Ethaniel: I think there is a sense of freedom to allow work-in-progress mindset.
Dao Yheng: Ata, quite so -- makes the time we have even sweeter, in a way
Xeno Octavia: then one need sbecome aware of one's immortality as Being only ego is mortal as is body
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm it's very interesting to hear you talk about enlightenment - even if we are not there yet - probably ;) or not ;)
Zen Arado: just resting in whatever
Mickorod Renard: loving life is a life long job,,but I spent too long not loving it
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen Arado: me too Mick
Eliza Madrigal: well aside from you and me Sun , giggles
Gaya Ethaniel: Well ... we are still alive ...
Mickorod Renard: yeaaaa
Sunshine Vayandar: /me agrees ;D
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Wol Euler: /me nods to Mick
Eliza Madrigal: (Sun and I celebrated enlightenment one day... back story not being really ill mannered)
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
Sunshine Vayandar: ;p
Xeno Octavia: i tend not get caught in word 'enlightenment' prefer simpl eAwareness
Mickorod Renard: :))
Zen Arado: what does it mean then in the koans when a monk sees some truth and is enlightened?
Ataraxia Azemus: lol
Gaya Ethaniel: "All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.” - Gandalf
Eliza Madrigal: Awareness, yes
Ataraxia Azemus: I like awareness better, too
Sunshine Vayandar: yes it feels better
Zen Arado: awareness doesn't seem enough though?
Xeno Octavia: if sees not realy lightened ---ned deeper than understand
Eliza Madrigal: even then though can centralize on ourselves like 'we' are aware, rather than 'just' awareness
Mickorod Renard: yea,,me too,,enlightenment is something that we may not even know we have
Calvino Rabeni: But awareness sounds ephemeral .. one could then forget about the structural changes needed
Zen Arado: I see hints of something deeper
Gaya Ethaniel: Gilles said something yesterday about this ... that an enlightened person wouldn't know s/he is so.
Eliza Madrigal: hm... so homework for next week?
Calvino Rabeni: OF course awareness is structural too
Xeno Octavia: not ego awareness --Awareness of ones own Authenticity!!
Zen Arado: "When buddhas are truly buddhas they do not necessarily notice that they are buddhas. However, they are actualized buddhas, who go on actualizing buddhas."
Mickorod Renard: we need to build an enlightenment thermometer
Zen Arado: from Dogen's Genjokoan
Dao Yheng: Hee hee!
Wol Euler: :)
Sunshine Vayandar: yes Mick ;) I thought of that too ;p
Eliza Madrigal: /me laughs at Mick
Zen Arado: maybe others notice though?
Dao Yheng: then we need to build an enlightenment thermometer reader...
Mickorod Renard: I only volunteer to put it under my armpit though
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks for that quote Zen... interesting
Zen Arado: has anyone met an enlightened person?
Ataraxia Azemus: hehe
Wol Euler: o.O
Gaya Ethaniel: Any suggestions for the coming week?
Calvino Rabeni: My group was talking about anger, and found it interesting
Eliza Madrigal: Mick? maybe you have a suggestion?
Ataraxia Azemus: I would hope that others would notice an enlightened person, but I'd also hope they wouldn't notice they're enlightened :)
Calvino Rabeni: Not sure if that would work here
Mickorod Renard: I recal doing anger with Stim
Zen Arado: or dealing with emotions?
Eliza Madrigal: anger... Hm... in what way Calvino?
Xeno Octavia: kill enlightened 'person' if meet on path
Mickorod Renard: the diference between anger and wrath
Eliza Madrigal: :) Xeno
Zen Arado: yes Xeno :)
Calvino Rabeni: Enlightenment is something to kill if you find it on the road
Ataraxia Azemus: Right, Xeno :)
Eliza Madrigal: emotions seems rich ground... but how to really work with that as homework?
Calvino Rabeni: Zero in on something
Zen Arado: how do we eachh deal with them?
Xeno Octavia: not enlighten ment --'person'
Calvino Rabeni: more specific the better
Mickorod Renard: I prefer not to think too hard,,and I am not really a budhist either
Calvino Rabeni: "Emotions" is pretty broad
Eliza Madrigal: hahah Mick
Zen Arado: ok
Calvino Rabeni: Bring "Mick Mind" not buddha mind
Mickorod Renard: :)
Dao Yheng: :)
Eliza Madrigal: what do you FEEL when you try to think, Mick?
Xeno Octavia: and emotions are block to feeling
Zen Arado: a specific emotion?
Eliza Madrigal: anger? frustration?
Zen Arado: jealousy?
Calvino Rabeni: anger is good because it has such a difficult status in spiritual communities
Dao Yheng: I think I would like to achieve Mick Mind
Mickorod Renard: lots of cloggs
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Ataraxia Azemus: Maybe anger could be tied to its opposites? Forgiveness, empathy, compassion...how they get tangled up with anger, close mindedness...
Calvino Rabeni: sounds good
Zen Arado: yes
Eliza Madrigal: that's interesting
Calvino Rabeni: always considering things in their living dynamic, Atari
Dao Yheng: oh, sounds good
Eliza Madrigal: dopplegangers
Gaya Ethaniel: ok anger then :) Thank you all :)
Zen Arado: :)
Ataraxia Azemus: A healthy attitude, Cal :)
Xeno Octavia: how do emotions fit on the mandala of existence
Mickorod Renard: grrrrr,,ok
Dao Yheng: oh, he's already started :)
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
Mickorod Renard: thankyou Gaya
Sunshine Vayandar: ty all - it was great ;)
Ataraxia Azemus: Emotions are the brushes and palettes we use to color our experiences
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Wol Euler: ooh, nice.
Wol Euler: well said
Calvino Rabeni: The artful painter
Ataraxia Azemus: Most of us just fingerpaint though :)
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Mickorod Renard: yes very nice
Zen Arado: nice phrase
Xeno Octavia: yes but are they real or avoidance : ))
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks everyone! Really nice.....
Gaya Ethaniel: Better than Pollock approach to emotion paintings :P
Calvino Rabeni: Yes
Calvino Rabeni: they are
Ataraxia Azemus: lol Gaya
Eliza Madrigal: hah Gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: See you next week!
Zen Arado: bye Gaya
Ataraxia Azemus: Take care!
Mickorod Renard: see u soon \gaya
Wol Euler: bye gaya
Dao Yheng: Nice to see everyone together again!
Dao Yheng: bye all!
Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now everyone, much appreciated, and yes agree Dao
Wol Euler: bye dao
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Wol Euler: bae eliza, bye everyone!
Ataraxia Azemus: Take care, everyone :)
Mickorod Renard: bye eliza
Sunshine Vayandar: byebyeee all take caree
Wol Euler: bye ari :)
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Mitsu...hope you rezz eventually.... hehe
Zen Arado: thanks to all for attempting such a difficult subject
Mickorod Renard: bye everyone leaving
Eliza Madrigal: Thank you Zen, yes tricky but fun!
Mickorod Renard: and bye everyone staying
Eliza Madrigal: haha
Wol Euler: mitsu, you can sometimes force yourself to rez by switching gender
Eliza Madrigal: Mick is our new guru
Mickorod Renard: erkkk
Zen Arado: Mick mind
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Zen Arado: is it attainable?
Eliza Madrigal: too bad we don't title these logs
Xeno Octavia: so yes been kool is bye time : ))
Wol Euler: bye for now
Eliza Madrigal: Bye :))