Am I the only one...

...Who sees many old people coming back to WoW while only the people who joined in late wrath to mop are all just whining? I don't wanna refer to them as "casuals" since this might seem as a casual bashing thread but straight to the point, I think what made people join back then was from how they made the game easier and whatnot, which made them hate why no flying mounts on start and other things.

I myself when I heard the news of the flying mounts not being included at start at first I was like; nah that's a shit change but then I remembered how the game back then was hard and the world actually felt immersive and more dangerous unlike nowadays /nostalgia. I think if those people leave only the loyal fans would remain and the game would most likely be purged from the nuisance of the community.

I'm so glad I joined right before the Ulduar patch. Because I would hate to be a part of the stereotype.

I love the expansion and think Cataclysm didn't do Deathwing justice either. >_> But of course - normally I - a wrathbaby - fall into some stereotype. >_> Even though I had a trial in 2007.

The amount of Alliance in this roster... is disturbing....
My avatar is such wow, much amaze, so boss. It's there because I was infracted. Will remain until after :3
Just... This is the greatest post ever: Right here.

<--- Old school. Subbed, but not playing until I get into WoD beta or the game releases. I reckon I get into beta though as they always want to test players on a highe end system who also done all their previous betas

I've been playing since day one and I have a lot of concerns about the new expansion. I expect to play it still because there are things I'm looking forward to, but there are many things I am definitely not excited about.

...Who sees many old people coming back to WoW while only the people who joined in late wrath to mop are all just whining? I don't wanna refer to them as "casuals" since this might seem as a casual bashing thread but straight to the point, I think what made people join back then was from how they made the game easier and whatnot, which made them hate why no flying mounts on start and other things.

I myself when I heard the news of the flying mounts not being included at start at first I was like; nah that's a shit change but then I remembered how the game back then was hard and the world actually felt immersive and more dangerous unlike nowadays /nostalgia. I think if those people leave only the loyal fans would remain and the game would most likely be purged from the nuisance of the community.

I heard them being referred to as wrath babies, cata trash and moppers. Don't be shy, they would call you elitist, snowflake, and so on in return. It's good fun, while the moderators have been in sleep-mode during/since Blizzcon.

I started during Vanilla, I grinded to 60 without a Flying mount, and you know what? When BC came out and i was able to Fly, it was the BEST thing ever.

And about that joining because the game was easier: Did you ever think about those People who were too young to afford the Game prior to that point? a younger Friend of mine didn't get enough allowance till he was 13, at which point he could afford WoW (Which was during Wrath)

And you can't call the World dangerous nowadays, Back then if you pulled 2-3 Mobs you were dead while leveling (Or OOM) Today? you just pull 5-10 Guys and smash them.

I started during Vanilla, I grinded to 60 without a Flying mount, and you know what? When BC came out and i was able to Fly, it was the BEST thing ever.

And about that joining because the game was easier: Did you ever think about those People who were too young to afford the Game prior to that point? a younger Friend of mine didn't get enough allowance till he was 13, at which point he could afford WoW (Which was during Wrath)

And you can't call the World dangerous nowadays, Back then if you pulled 2-3 Mobs you were dead while leveling (Or OOM) Today? you just pull 5-10 Guys and smash them.

it was not the best thong ever, back then i got my flying mount and actually went SLOWER that was a load of crap

...Who sees many old people coming back to WoW while only the people who joined in late wrath to mop are all just whining? I don't wanna refer to them as "casuals" since this might seem as a casual bashing thread but straight to the point, I think what made people join back then was from how they made the game easier and whatnot, which made them hate why no flying mounts on start and other things.

I myself when I heard the news of the flying mounts not being included at start at first I was like; nah that's a shit change but then I remembered how the game back then was hard and the world actually felt immersive and more dangerous unlike nowadays /nostalgia. I think if those people leave only the loyal fans would remain and the game would most likely be purged from the nuisance of the community.

I consider myself a loyal fan, but I do disagree. When they added flying to the game it actually felt like it was a missing piece. And I don't think I would have played this long without flying really. Flight makes the game much more enjoyable. And I actually hated the fact I had to level all my alts to 90 before I could get flying on each, and in particular the fact that you had to quest at least until Kun Lai Summit to be able to get to the vendor. I don't mind the fact that on your main you have to do all the stuff by ground mount, but none of the following reasons apply to me with regards to alts (and some even main):
- Make the world more dangerous
- World PVP
- Immersiveness
- Feeling excited to get flying (is more like a sense of justice since I feel unjustly punished and now I am redeemed)

And so far none of the answers have made me feel any better about it or are weak in my opinion:
They say they feel to make the zones larger when they add flying to it, which is not true. They could add the same size really, thus making it a good size for travel by ground mount and gives the people that like to fly even more efficient travel time since they don't have to travel through a large zone.
They will add a good flight path network to make it convenient? Well experience shows that flight paths usually are far from efficient, and besides that, the taxi service is boring because there is nothing to do really. It would perhaps help if you could at least do some crafting or other stuff while flying....

I think in this case Blizzard is approaching the whole issue from the wrong direction. Instead of taking away flying, they should be looking at was of improving it to make it feel more immersive/dangerous. Just adding aerial combat, for example, would add a whole new dimension to the game. Instead of being able to cast you'd get a few abilities on a special action bar (just like we see with a lot of quests). A basic attack button (similar damage for all mounts)and a utility button (say 3 sec speed boost, or looping, or slowing other)) would already be enough. Add that to all mounts and give them the same health and what you get it is aerial PVP which is even balanced because dmg and health for all mounts is about equal. Have the mounts take 10 hits to get knocked off. PVP Flag rules apply of course. Give people a parachute so they don't drop to their death after losing in aerial battle, which could become a buff after being knocked of your mount. (And have the abilities only work on other flying mounts, or make sure damage to non flying units is low, to avoid airstrikes).

That's just one thing they could have looked into. And also they could have a different approach towards the questing experience. They said that the zones were not designed for flying, well then, just design them with that in mind.... I doubt there is even a handful of people at 85 that has no flying these days, so be creative and design zones around flying mounts....
Right now it feels silly actually when you cannot fly. Had a few moments like this: Was standing on one side of a wall and having to travel a great distance to get to other side all the while thinking that it would feel normal if I could just pop on the flying mount and get to the other side. Which you will be able to anyway after a while. Those things actually make the game fell less immersive to me.

I still think that Blizzard is great at game design and even items like Garrison take my interest, but in all fairness, I wasn't very impressed with the details about the next expansion and with no flying it actually is making me wonder if I should cancel my subscription for a few months until flying is available again. Seriously, it may sound whiny to opponents of flying, but that's just how I feel.

TLDR; On a personal note I'm not happy with the flying decision they make and think they're not even trying to be creative with regards to it.

Been playing since Vanilla. Not going to play WoD anymore. I wanted to like it so badly, but it's wrought with unnecessary changes (including derailing a plot arc that was moving forward with plenty of momentum, although that part was started in MoP) that I can't express concerns about without getting called an idiot by the community that I have spent many years and hundreds of dollars supporting with my participation.

So my decades of life experience tells me that that's a good time to stop supporting it.

In the last month (culminating with the WoD reveal) I have watched the community rabble do a complete 180 on a number of issues and seen a bombardment of inflammatory posts by new forum participants. Which leads me to believe 1 of 2 things is true: Either A. Blizzard has flooded the forums with a bunch of four minute men (which I'm not one for tin foil hats, but so many of the November 2013th registrants have an amazing knack for having the exact same talking points, worded the exact same way), or B. The landscape of the community has changed such that what I want out of WoW is no longer what the majority of the player base wants out of WoW. Either way, that's a sign that I should move on.

I consider myself a loyal fan, but I do disagree. When they added flying to the game it actually felt like it was a missing piece. And I don't think I would have played this long without flying really. Flight makes the game much more enjoyable. And I actually hated the fact I had to level all my alts to 90 before I could get flying on each, and in particular the fact that you had to quest at least until Kun Lai Summit to be able to get to the vendor. I don't mind the fact that on your main you have to do all the stuff by ground mount, but none of the following reasons apply to me with regards to alts (and some even main):
- Make the world more dangerous
- World PVP
- Immersiveness
- Feeling excited to get flying (is more like a sense of justice since I feel unjustly punished and now I am redeemed)

And so far none of the answers have made me feel any better about it or are weak in my opinion:
They say they feel to make the zones larger when they add flying to it, which is not true. They could add the same size really, thus making it a good size for travel by ground mount and gives the people that like to fly even more efficient travel time since they don't have to travel through a large zone.
They will add a good flight path network to make it convenient? Well experience shows that flight paths usually are far from efficient, and besides that, the taxi service is boring because there is nothing to do really. It would perhaps help if you could at least do some crafting or other stuff while flying....

I think in this case Blizzard is approaching the whole issue from the wrong direction. Instead of taking away flying, they should be looking at was of improving it to make it feel more immersive/dangerous. Just adding aerial combat, for example, would add a whole new dimension to the game. Instead of being able to cast you'd get a few abilities on a special action bar (just like we see with a lot of quests). A basic attack button (similar damage for all mounts)and a utility button (say 3 sec speed boost, or looping, or slowing other)) would already be enough. Add that to all mounts and give them the same health and what you get it is aerial PVP which is even balanced because dmg and health for all mounts is about equal. Have the mounts take 10 hits to get knocked off. PVP Flag rules apply of course. Give people a parachute so they don't drop to their death after losing in aerial battle, which could become a buff after being knocked of your mount. (And have the abilities only work on other flying mounts, or make sure damage to non flying units is low, to avoid airstrikes).

That's just one thing they could have looked into. And also they could have a different approach towards the questing experience. They said that the zones were not designed for flying, well then, just design them with that in mind.... I doubt there is even a handful of people at 85 that has no flying these days, so be creative and design zones around flying mounts....
Right now it feels silly actually when you cannot fly. Had a few moments like this: Was standing on one side of a wall and having to travel a great distance to get to other side all the while thinking that it would feel normal if I could just pop on the flying mount and get to the other side. Which you will be able to anyway after a while. Those things actually make the game fell less immersive to me.

I still think that Blizzard is great at game design and even items like Garrisoin take my interest, but in all fairness, I wasn't very impressed with the details about the next expansion and with no flying it actually is making me wonder if I should cancel my subscription for a few months until flying is available again. Seriously, it may sound whiny to opponents of flying, but that's just how I feel.

TLDR; On a personal note I'm not happy with the flying decision they make and think they're not even trying to be creative with regards to it.

The questing (both leveling and max level) in WoD is going to be more exploration based like what they did with Timeless Isle and flying mounts just trivialize that type of content. They're not going to radically change the content based off of the whining of people that haven't even seen how it's going to work and are so focused on convenience that they act like it's the end of the world just because Blizzard wants them to experience the content they designed the way they intended it to be. You can still fly EVERYWHERE that you have already earned it and after the leveling and starter max level content is no longer new (6.1) you'll be able to earn flight in Draenor as well. Dislike their design choices for the content all you want but don't think that whining about it is going to make them do a 180 on it.

it was not the best thong ever, back then i got my flying mount and actually went SLOWER that was a load of crap

It was slower, but you could avoid many of the obstacles that ground mounts had to navigate, saving time (and repair bills). You could fly over Hellfire Citadel instead of having to drive through the orcs surrounding it and down into the Path Of Glory and back up.

The questing (both leveling and max level) in WoD is going to be more exploration based like what they did with Timeless Isle and flying mounts just trivialize that type of content. They're not going to radically change the content based off of the whining of people that haven't even seen how it's going to work and are so focused on convenience that they act like it's the end of the world just because Blizzard wants them to experience the content they designed the way they intended it to be. You can still fly EVERYWHERE that you have already earned it and after the leveling and starter max level content is no longer new (6.1) you'll be able to earn flight in Draenor as well. Dislike their design choices for the content all you want but don't think that whining about it is going to make them do a 180 on it.

Thanks for the flaming I guess. I made a serious attempt to provide arguments but apparently that is whining these days. And I don't expect them to do a 180, it's their game and they can decide what to do with it. I will probably play it too, that does not mean I have to like it. And even though I'm considering cancelling subscription for a while until flying is again available (or pause until then), I'm pretty sure I will still like the game. I'm merely saying that in my opinion they could have approached it in a different way.