Otherwise, you're eligible to upgrade. BTW, no one is selling a kidney to get a new iphone, and if they are, they're idiots. But you're trying to be a
drama queen so I'll accept that.

edit on 23-8-2014 by ArchPlayer because: (no reason given)

I'm being a drama queen huh? This was ALL OVER ATS!!! hxxp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/10/wang-shangkun-kidney-ipad_n_1764335.html

A
teenage boy who sold his kidney to buy Apple products was too weak to attend the trial of the group who allegedly harvested his organ last year, the
state-run China Daily reports. In April 2011, Wang Shangkun's mother discovered that her then 17-year-old son had sold his kidney and had bought an
iPad and iPhone with the money. Now 18, Wang suffers from a decreased level of kidney function, according to NPR.

Old, or young, some people want data phones. It's a fact, get over it. The cellular market is not directed at old people keeping old phones. It's
directed at consumers who are about new technology. There's more than enough "simple phones", as us in the business call them "basic devices". So why
are you complaining? I'm sure you can find a basic LG that works perfect for your needs and you can leave the rest of us alone. Show me numbers for
MOST PEOPLE that cannot afford smartphones, and I'll show you numbers that can. If consumers can't afford it, there would be no iPhone 6's or the
like.

I'm glad you brought up the fact that most people can't afford a device outright without a contract. You're supporting my argument and I appreciate
that. I still have my iphone 4s, it's a little older but it still works. My contract ends in September and I will be upgrading to the 6. Now, the only
reason you could possibly be using a 1st gen iphone is:

1) Gave your upgrade to a family member who wasn't eligible for an upgrade and damaged their phone
2) You like the device and see no need to upgrade

As far as who can afford what, you're going over the top and I really don't understand if you're in the loop, as you're obviously not. Smartphones are
very affordable. It's not the phone that is expensive, it's the service, which is dropping. You need a lesson in cellular sales and I could give it to
you, but you wouldn't listen anyway, so I wont.

As far as your argument about not getting a free phone without a contract, you can get pretty damn close. You can get a go phone for next to nothing
with minutes. Sometimes, during specials, if you buy enough minutes, the phone comes with it. I've worked in the field, you have't. I know you haven't
because you have no idea what you're talking about as this conversation shows.

Sorry to break your bubble, but 75% of merchandise does not come back to apple for return. Maybe if you include lessons on the device but not for
return and that's pushing it big time. That's laughable you would even say that. If you show me 75% return rate on Apple products, i'll never post on
this board again. As far as not knowing what I am talking about, I have degree in Computer Science as well as a minor in Computer Security with 9
years of cellular sales experience. Which I don't even know why i'm explaining myself to you.

You build computers, big deal, so does everyone else that watched a youtube video. Building a computer is nothing more than changing the breaks in a
car now a days. Congrats, welcome to 2010. You fix devices too, huh? Funny how you called them "phones" all chit chat long. Now all the sudden they're
"devices"

Your terminology alone shows me you have no idea what you're talking about. If you built computers for a living, you would know enough to call them
"rigs". Homer.

Lets address a few points here. I can build computers without calling them "rigs". Most commoners don't know nor care about the terminology, and
since my clients are not big business, why should I have to prove academia to you by using terminology that is only corporate. Having said that, your
entire ARGUMENT is a pro corporate slant to get people to turn over to the idea of having their devices controlled FOR THEM. If you truly are the
credentials you say, then your argument makes perfect sense, you're a corporate SHILL. So nice to see one in action on ATS.

Old, or young, some people want data phones because THEY ARE TRAINED TO WANT THEM. I'm not doing homework for you SHILL. Go research Edward Bernays
and Century of Self. Hell, ATS has a plethora of information about it. I'm not getting over the fact that people are being conditioned to join a
matrix per se. It's total BS. The cellular market is directed at getting people into constantly buying devices as soon as they churn them out. Its
worse than a bull market. First there were 2ways, then pagers, then the trend for an internet type device. If you people are so gung ho on a
advanced device, why not get Blackberry to make something worth a damn. Oh right, you're in the industry so I guess that is too primative for you now
that Apple got everybody convinced an Iphone is the sliced bread on your sandwich, even though it worked for how many years just fine? Apple doesn't
give 2 #s whether or not consumers can afford them, its obvious that dumb asses will sell a kidney literally to have them because it puts them in the
jonses. Has nothing to do with advancing their quality of life. In fact, most people HATED the iphone5, but conditioning is a bitch.

Only in America are people obsessed with having to contract themselves just to keep a new device - most people have no idea about the tech part of it,
they are going for updated not upgraded bells and whistles on the pretty commercial. Being in the business and academically trained, you would know
that right? When I'm in Europe, they have never been on the contract bandwagon, and are not obsessed with devices like Americans. But you would know
that too, right? High end smart phones are not very affordable. There is a big difference between a Pay as you Go smartphone with basic capabilities
and a Samsung Galaxy 5. I shouldn't even have to point this out to you, but since you've convinced yourself I don't obviously have a clue because you
are a corporate shill, let me lay it out for you. Service plans are not dropping, most people defaulted on their contracts and they got sent to
collections for all the nickle and diming the companies did and NOBODY can afford to have service, so they "compromised" a little bit. Last time I
checked, the line of credit and cash up front to get a decent smart phone worth a damn was still on the low end at 200. 200 is what most people in
NYC spend on a light bill a month if they lucky. If you weren't a corporate shill you would know that. Cellular sales lesson, no thank you. Don't
need you sprewing more corporate shenannigans of all places ATS. As far as your argument about getting a free phone without a contract, PROVE IT.
Pretty damn close ain't free; A go phone can still range 50 and up for a smartphone. That is still a lot if you are on a budget, or like most of
America working 2 part time jobs to make ends meet. Also depends on the service provider. So a 50 dollar package plus a card to add minutes...still
adding up to me like a bill

As far as your argument about not getting a free phone without a contract, you can get pretty damn close. You can get a go phone for next to nothing
with minutes. Sometimes, during specials, if you buy enough minutes, the phone comes with it. I've worked in the field, you have't. I know you
haven't because you have no idea what you're talking about as this conversation shows.

Sorry to break your bubble, but 75% of merchandise does not come back to apple for return. Maybe if you include lessons on the device but not for
return and that's pushing it big time. That's laughable you would even say that. If you show me 75% return rate on Apple products, i'll never post
on this board again. As far as not knowing what I am talking about, I have degree in Computer Science as well as a minor in Computer Security with 9
years of cellular sales experience. Which I don't even know why i'm explaining myself to you.

You build computers, big deal, so does everyone else that watched a youtube video. Building a computer is nothing more than changing the breaks in a
car now a days. Congrats, welcome to 2010. You fix devices too, huh? Funny how you called them "phones" all chit chat long. Now all the sudden
they're "devices"

Your terminology alone shows me you have no idea what you're talking about. If you built computers for a living, you would know enough to call them
"rigs". Homer.

You have worked for how many cell companies? Would you like to clarify and show to ATS the scams they have taught you to sell? I have NEVER worked
in mobile sales, and never will. Why work for the enemy preying on the weak. Oh right, you're the corporate SHILL.

Sorry to break your bubble, but 75% of merchandise does come back to apple for return. Apple has a nasty habit of keeping things quiet when they know
things they put out have design flaws and such. They have just been fortunate enough not to have a catastrophe event like Microsoft Xbox 360. Ever
since Jobs jumped on the Intel bandwagon, there are LOTS of returns. Now I can see you have no idea what you are talking about. But hey, you're a
shill paid to sell cheap chinese junk, so I can accept that.

I was going to do a PHD in Computer Security, but I didn't want to go work for the stock exchange and be bored to death, but I have my CISCO Cert.
Congratulations on your academic accomplishments. And yes, why did you feel compelled to mention this? What bearing does your academic merits have
on a conversation about California providing kill switches? You're not at a firm that would be making this type of tech, and if you were I doubt
they would let you come on ATS and talk about it.

I've been building computers since before youtube was even thought of. I'm a geek. I hang out with geeks. Figuring out the Packard Bell legend as
a kid was an accomplishment back then. I also can change breaks on a car, and have had that ability since age 8 thanks to my father. I fix phones,
pagers, devices like tablets. Funny how you're shilling and nitpicking without making a concrete argument. And for the record, youtube or no
youtube, most idiots in America don't have the attention span because of the phones to follow step by step to build a computer even if they wanted
to. Like wikipedia, just because somebody throws something up there doesn't make it a concrete instruction book.

Show me proof where you've witness a cop track a device and I want to see the warrant with it, or provide the cops name so he or she can go to jail.
Cops don't track phones, sorry. BTW, any phone can be tracked via triangulation if you know the the IMEI. And, it will track it to a distance, not
pinpoint. Unless it's connected to wifi. Also, you don't download the software to track a phone on an iphone, it's built in, you have to activate
it. I don't think you even know what jailbroken means.

You may call Chicago Police Department and ask them their protocol. I have seen them first hand track an Iphone WITHOUT A WARRANT and detain the
person with it after purchasing it. The cops took them and the phone away, and while they were held and eventually released, the phone was not and it
was a big mess for the individual. I do not work for CPD, and therfore cannot tell you how they did it, but since you want to know, CALL THEM. If
you are lucky enough not to get cussed out or put on hold for 8 hours, or sound white enough they may tell you.

Jailbreaking: unlocking the phone to its full capabilities allowing it to do what it should have been intended for and not what the service provider
or Apple says I can do with it.

But since you are a corporate shill and work for a service provider, that is totally not even allowed in your vocabulary, now is it?

Show me proof where you've witness a cop track a device and I want to see the warrant with it, or provide the cops name so he or she can go to jail.
Cops don't track phones, sorry. BTW, any phone can be tracked via triangulation if you know the the IMEI. And, it will track it to a distance, not
pinpoint. Unless it's connected to wifi. Also, you don't download the software to track a phone on an iphone, it's built in, you have to activate
it. I don't think you even know what jailbroken means.

You may call Chicago Police Department and ask them their protocol. I have seen them first hand track an Iphone WITHOUT A WARRANT and detain the
person with it after purchasing it. The cops took them and the phone away, and while they were held and eventually released, the phone was not and it
was a big mess for the individual. I do not work for CPD, and therfore cannot tell you how they did it, but since you want to know, CALL THEM. If
you are lucky enough not to get cussed out or put on hold for 8 hours, or sound white enough they may tell you.

Jailbreaking: unlocking the phone to its full capabilities allowing it to do what it should have been intended for and not what the service provider
or Apple says I can do with it.

But since you are a corporate shill and work for a service provider, that is totally not even allowed in your vocabulary, now is it?

This thread is pretty much dead in the water anyway and this is the last time I'm going to reply to you because I'm not going to give it anymore
attention. You throw out all kinds of bogus claims with nothing to back them up, not one fact or number, only excuses and theories from your own head
and expect the rest of us to believe them as fact.

You seemed moderately intelligent until this post, but then, looks can be decieving.

Its ALWAYS up to the person making the claim, to provide the evidence for said claim. You cannot make a claim, and when challenged for proof of said
claim, say "go research it yourself", the second you say that, you invalidate your own claim.

So essentially you have no proof, and want us to justify your claim for you. What you have then, is a belief, not a claim. You believe that the police
tracked a phone without a warrant....

Sorry, but thats the harsh reality of it. A claim without supportive evidece when challenged, is only a belief.

(post by ArchPlayer removed for a serious terms and conditions violation)

You seemed moderately intelligent until this post, but then, looks can be decieving.

Its ALWAYS up to the person making the claim, to provide the evidence for said claim. You cannot make a claim, and when challenged for proof of said
claim, say "go research it yourself", the second you say that, you invalidate your own claim.

So essentially you have no proof, and want us to justify your claim for you. What you have then, is a belief, not a claim. You believe that the police
tracked a phone without a warrant....

Sorry, but thats the harsh reality of it. A claim without supportive evidece when challenged, is only a belief.

I don't know you, or even know enough about you and what you post on a regular to dignify an intelligent response to your reply, nor does it have
anything to do with the topic on hand.

I will say this - the evidence "news article" was presented. Some corporate shill spouting off corporate nonsense derailed an otherwise
uncompromised piece of MSM journalism. Then you jump into a conversation between myself and Optimus, without even adding to the original post to
begin with, and then you want to rattle on about intelligence and comments stated. It is not my job to do homework for anybody on ATS, that is you,
Optimus, Jesus and the rest of the disciples. There is enough literature on here for people to read by themselves. If you have a problem with that,
go make a rant post about not enough OPs spoonfeeding you research material.

Sorry, but thats the harsh reality of it. A claim can be made and on ATS the news article is all you get. Any other supportive evidece when
challenged, is up to the individual to research, especially after being pointed where to look.

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