The two bookending games look like they might have some interesting results, especially the first one. I've thought that the Netherlands weren't being talked about as serious contenders to go all the way enough in the buildup to the WC, so I'm hoping they'll prove my judgement correct. They were the best team at Euro2008, after all, and they seem even stronger this time around.

It's a team of big bruising players (and Samuel Eto'o) against a team of little technical ones (and Tulio). But all the matches I've thought could be interesting have turned out to be dull as dishwater. Really hoping Holland bring their A-game tomorrow, but I'm expecting a 2-0 with flashes of brilliance rather than a tidal wave.

The Azzuri are without their playmaker/maestro/all around godfella Andrea Pirlo, which is a big loss. Plus, they haven't really looked that good in their warm-up games(tying with the Swiss, getting tonked by Mexico). Then again, they could huff and puff to a 1-0 win and I'll yet again look like an utter moron for doubting them.

The world cup really comes alive as Germany serve up the first 'big' performance wih an annihilation of a poor Aus side, who weren't helped by a uncharateristically (thus far) poor sending off decision. Germany looked superb, although they have a team full of cunts (little consolation the england fan who has the latter only...). That Ozil fella looks like a computer-generated freak.

Ledley King's WC could be over if reports this morning are to be believed - his groin injury will take 2-3 weeks to heal by all accounts. There goes the pace from our centre defence - maybe we could play SWP as sweeper. I guess carragher will play the rest of the tounament now, which is a shame as he's shit, and about half the pace of the WC's top forward men like Josy Altidore.

Fab has a tough decision to make over his GK situation. If he drops Green then the guy will probably kill himself. He seems to hate James, so maybe Hart will get the nod? I feel sorry for Green, but he must be bottom of the pile now surely? His mistake was indefensible, and the save he pulled off in the second half, over which ITV orgamsed was very nearly an error on his part. Sub-thread: WHy do england have such pony keepers?

The algeria GK does the honourable thing and makes Green feel a little better with a blunder almost as bad as SLovenia achieve their first WC win. The algeria sub who last 10 minyutes before his red card is amazing.

LOL @ ITV. How do they manage to do everything so badly? Chiles, Keegan, Davids, Viera and SOuthgate must be THE worst presenting team ever. And no Drury/Tyldsely/Townsend, EMile Heskey was not outstanding.

Well done Ghana.

AND FINALLY. Vuvuzelas(?). The only thing worse than these horn thingies, are the people who keep moaning about them.

But ever since Seaman let that goal in, we've never settled on one and that's the issue. A keeper needs to feel solid and undroppable, but at the first sign of a mistake we've dropped our current number one for whoever next Fergie says is half decent.

If we'd done the same thing as countries who have stuck by their underperforming Number Ones like Gomes, Cech and Lloris and allowed them to build up gradually to a tournament then it'd be fine. But we've tried every English player whose played at a team in the bottom half of the Prem for 4 years now and STILL don't have a foggiest who is best. I honestly think it WILL be Hart one day. Right now though? I don't think Capello can risk him after Carras ineptitude, the bad Milner call and putting on SWP over Cole

England goalies, or even goalies in general, tend to make mistakes when they don't know if they are number ones or are unsure of themselves. (peter bonnetti anyone?) Whilst Cappello's naming the team two hours before works in club level, where you always have a distinguished no 1 I don't think it should be employed in the internationals. Whoever he picks he needs to let them know in advance: one for Green's sanity and two so they can build up their confidence.

One thing noticed was, the vuvuzelas didnt seem half as annoyng n the germany match (where for the first time ever i found myself being glad that germany were deliverng a pretty owsome performance....cos otherwise this world cup has been anything but, a showcase of the worlds best football) as in the england match (after the US had equalised) where i felt that they were just prickling my already short temper to burstng point)

really glad the bigger teams are getting to play now. not really been that enthralling a tournament... good fun and i've enjoyed it muchly, but there's no stand out games. last night's one was pretty good fun though as i have germany in my sweep and they look good for the weltmeistershaft

always worth watching the Dutch, but I hope that Christian Eriksen gets some time on the pitch for Denmark. He's the youngest player at the tournament and he looks really promising.

Pirlo's injury could turn out to be Italy's saving grace if Montolivo can deal with the responsibility of taking his place. I've never really been very impressed with Montolivo but he's almost certainly a better option than Pirlo these days. I don't think Italy will win tonight, a low-scoring draw or a narrow Paraguay win.

Might be a wind up. But it does seem like long range shooting with it is hard for both striker and goalie. The goalies in all 5 of the first games struggled with it, with only the Nigerian keeper coming out of it looking decent. Likewise, when players like Lampard, Pienaar, Veron, Tevez, etc can't hit a shot on target between them all it's a bit odd...?

Didn't stop Messi being very good obviously, or Germany doing what they do best. But hey...

Lampard has always hit shots like that for England. Pienaar had a quiet game and looked nervous. Veron is past his best and I can't remember Tevez having a clear opportunity. Plus a lot of the goalies who have played so far have just been plain rubbish in general.

The ball didnt stop the germans putting in some ferocious shots. And the Ghanaians had quite a few good efforts that came close.

there's been loads of players misjudging the bounce from long passes, with the ball going miles over their heads.

shooting is always going to be pretty unpredictable, but i think it's a big problem if passing becomes a lottery. there's nothing more frustrating than a move breaking down because of a slightly over-hit pass and it doesn't help when the ball is so unforgiving.

maybe the players should be good enough to cope at this level etc etc etc but just as a spectacle it's much more enjoyable when the ball is easier to control. for me, at least.

All the the ground have very smooth, new surfaces and you tend to see more bounce on new pitches. Surely if it is flying further then the players should be good enough to compensate. They have been training with this ball for the last few weeks right?

can't be sure what it is, but it's fucking annoying when a team's in a promising position and the ball bounces a foot too high and the chance is gone.

i like when good ideas are rewarded rather than just whoever can control the ball marginally better as it makes for better viewing, i couldn't give a toss about the general standard of skill at this point in the tournament.

Germany were performing exactly how i wanted england to do against the US.

However Englands game consisted of hoofing it skywards like the wimbledon of yore......in fact I started a little game where i just made the noise 'BOING' everytime the ball just bounced up into the air off another player I think i once managed about 12 boings in a row.............Germany were so different though.....they kept the ball on the floor.

One would think that a team who are technically superior to another would want to keep it on the floor......boingy balls are for those teams with less skill but with enthusiasm.......no doubt if england come up against a superior technical side like spain or brazil then we will perversley start to try to keep the ball on the ground.

oh as to Lampard not being able to keep the ball down.....in our house when watching england matches the phrase 'he's lamparded t over the bar' has caught on (We have all noticed how for his country frank tends to do this far more often than for chelsea ....gerrard is the same, far less accurate than for his club when trying a fierce shot)

There is probably some truth to it though, but i think that if a superior team uses its other skills then its only when it comes to free kick shots that this should impeded them......set pieces still seem to work when there os a strategy behind them.

The other thing is if the ball is crap in the air, then it is great on the ground......those through balls that germany was delivering were sublime.....almost..... 'beautiful'......i cant believe Im saying that about germany

by complaining that one of their precious darlings wasn't invited to hand over the trophy at the opening concert, therefore failing to understand the significance of Patrick Viera - a Senegal-born former World Cup winner - doing the deed. Pirlo was invited as well, but couldn't make it.

I've got the Dutch in one of my sweepstakes, so i'll be cheering them on more than normal (i like orange, what can i say) (i just realised i'm wearing my orange t-shirt too)

I might not get to see any of the Jap-Cam game, unless i do the right thing and leave work early, i could do that, but then i'd end up in a pub on my own twice this afternoon, and it's a monday, and that's probably a bit foolish.

Italy should beat Paragay, but you never know with them, i want it to be an interesting game, but it seems most teams are finding it hard to play out there.

on that note has there been any more about those vava-thingimajigs? are they going to be banned in the stadiums?

I cant see England not beating Algeria and Slovenia whatever team they play. Although he didnt play well this season for club, Barry coming back could help the shape of the team. Plus maybe Cole on the left? And surely Dawson is going to partner Terry?

Whichever way you look at it though, England aren't going to win the world cup.

otherwise we would be insincere......I find that bloody drone annoying......ans its not because im anti other cultures.....vive le differance i say.....which is why i would LOVE to hear the different noises that each countries supporters would make, to hear how they are different.....to hear how enthusiastic some sides support is........but i cant cos every match is now reduced to an identical MUSH of sound with nothing to differentuate in sound between one and the next.......nothing to convey the relative excitements of each different match......nothing is distinguishing about that awful drone.......it makes you forget about hte crown entirely.....which is why the visuals then become more essential......I remember being slightly gladdened (during the ghana match) to see the really colourful getup that their supporters were wearing (the orange was worked far better by them than the dutch hull or wolves) and at one point ther ewas this huddle of about 40 of them all in one mass swaying as one organism....that looked great.....Im not a facist....but these trumpets suck the colour out of each matches aural atmosphere for me.

I think we'll look back on this world cup as being strangely 'flat' in atmosphere because there's little audible reaction to most events on the pitch. There's no tension/release; no singing. You have no idea how well supported a team is.

as far as the penalty shootout goes, you've already got to have it at the "away" end for one of the teams, and there's often a lot of whistling/howling, in a similar way to when in basketball the fans can wave plastic tubes to distract players taking free throws, i don't really have a problem with fans making as much racket as they like. Sometimes it's easier to focus when you've got a drone - silence is a drone, our ears just don't pick it up.

but that explanation is as stupid as saying..."hey everyones a different colour.....lets make everyone the same colour so not to offend anyone, they could use face paints.....hmm what colour shall we pick to be the universal so as not to offend anyone?........I know 'GREY' "

I expect to see plenty of wonderful things when I watch highlights of Netherlands - Denmark, at least 12 goals in the Brazil game tomorrow and some good end-to-end stuff in the Ivory Coast - Portugal game.

I'm letting the tournament trade on the fact it's the World Cup for now, but I won't forgive shit like Algeria - Slovenia for much longer.

Krasic was well off his game. They were just so much less than the sum of their parts. It's clear they're a good side and they could well have won that game if only Zigic and Jovanovic could manage to shoot.

I think my bet is dead in the water though; I don't see them beating Germany which is almost certainly what they'd have to do to qualify. Such a stupid handball ...

England are thoroughly screwed now. Carragher and Terry in the middle? Just imagine Messi running at that pair. Should have brought Lescott tbf. Just lucky that we have by far the easiest group so far, Slovenia and Algeria are two hopelessly ineffective outfits. Couple of easy wins without conceding, the press goes mad again, knocked out by Ghana in the next round. Typical scapegoating going on as well with Green, we drew that game because we didn’t create enough, because we didn’t keep hold of the ball and impose ourselves on the game, because we are only marginally better as a team than USA

The Cahill sending off wasn’t unfair at all. Dangerous tackle from behind which almost snapped Schweinsteiger’s ankle, I think it’s perfectly feasible for that to be a red card offence. Germany were the best side I saw this weekend, although Australia were almost certainly the worst. I think they would beat any other team in the first half of the draw, so a semi final is almost certain. Also made a killing on the betting, Germany -1.5, Germany win to nil, Germany score 4 or more

Ghana and South Korea will qualify from their respective groups. Interestingly, the 2 best performances (Germany and South Korea) were both played at 0 metres above sea level. Bit of a FIFA cock up having a tournament at an altitude that only 2 teams in the competition are used to playing at – Mexico and South Africa. Surely there’s somewhere else in Africa that would have been a bit more suitable?

Some great games on today, shame I’m stuck at work. Where can I listen to commentary that isn’t on the BBC iplayer thing? Holland to win easily, Cameroon and Japan to draw (though with it leaning in Cameroon’s favour) and Italy to struggle to a 1-0 win.

Therefore your choice is: South Africa. There are no other countries really developed enough to handle the costs of creating the infrastructure needed from scratch, except perhaps Nigeria and Kenya, and they've got worse social problems than South Africa

especially about England being only marginally better than the US. I was screaming for them to pass the ball, to just keep possession at 1-0, but the England disease of hitting long balls as a first option seems to have re-appeared.

But that Tim Cahill Tackle was never a red card. He actually pulled out. It was tame.

Looking forward to seeing the Netherlands in action. As people up there ^ have said, a passing game seems to be the best way to get results on these pitches, at this altitude and with this ball. Reinforces my idea that the Dutch could go all the way.

Paraguay to score early against Italy and the Italians to score a flukey late equaliser.

I went to the Supporters Direct conference this weekend. Some interesting stuff about football's social impact, diversifying beyond the white working/middle class fanbase you see at most grounds, thoughts from the Bundesliga and Football League on fixing the financial model of football in the UK and stuff about the theory of supporters' 'right to buy'.

Two interesting (well, I thought so) snippets from the day...

David Conn: "Manchester United has already paid over £300m in interest, fees and payments in just the last 4 years"

At ENGERLAD 1-1 USA, I found myself willing the USA on and cursing the rampant over-complimentary and optimistic comments from the commentators. England were bobbins. That game shoulda been sewn up. They will not get past the Quarters. I will not weep. They play some of the most uninspired football considering they're supposed to have 'world class' players. Compare that to Germany, who had a very similar task on their plate and managed to deal with it with an assured confidence-inspiring display of proper football (even if they did make a little more out of some of the fouls than they oughtta).

It really is becoming more fun to support ABE than the country of my birth. :small sadface:

Who else would start? Ideally he wouldn't have done in the first place had Rio stayed fit and none of this would be an issue. Now we're faced with a chuggingly slow Carragher, an untested Dawson or an unreliable Upson.

If I was Hart or James, I'd be kinda hoping I DIDN'T get to go in goal next game...

but if lessons are learnt it could help. The only thing is, given how poor Algeria and Slovenia looked yesterday, England should win both games comfortably and we won't really know any more about where the team are. The USA game is/should be the only test in the group stage.

Don't really see the problem with most of it in theory. The one that interests me most is Milner - if his medical staff said Milner was match fit, he's got to trust them on it. Unless they said otherwise and he disregarded them entirely, Capello's not to blame for the fact his left winger was two yards behind everyone else.

The Germans..genes..a Polish man. It's like they've been bred for it! I was really hoping for an extended ad-hoc rant about eugenics and the existence of the master race, but sadly it didn't materialise. Maybe it was on the HD channel.

Also, why did the SA players make Pienaar crouch down in the middle of their team huddle and put their hands on his head before the start of their game? Do they always do that to their captain? This has probably been covered elsewhere.

So happy that the Aussies got shamed and Cahill got sent off. Now for Lucas Neill to be completely humiliated for their remaining games.

I'm down for 'em winning. And also for a Netherlands - Spain final. And also for a South American team to win (as cover). Stakes returned if Spain win, apparently. I see Germany winning it as the only real threat to this cunning plan. But I've got them in the DiS sweepstake so all will not be lost.

Wordlessly take abuse from a bar full of Australians wearing flags as capes about how crap your football team is and then spend the next 90 minutes watching their team get torn a new bratwurst-scented arsehole and their key player get sent from the field, crying like a woman.

but liek i say, we try to. as do holland. everyone else seems to have ludicrous squad numbers. asamoah gyan is number effing 3 even tho he's the centre foward. and dont even get me started on the french.

Putting aside the fact he may well be fit for the Slovenia match, who would have gone otherwise? Wes Brown? Phil Neville? Sol Campbell? It would have been either another right-back or another centre-back, I suspect, and we're hardly brimming with talent/form in either area. If people are thinking it would have opened up a space in the squad for someone like Adam Johnson, I find that very unlikely.

And if Ledley doesn't recover quickly enough to play any further role in the tournament, we still have 3 potential replacements in the squad. There are suggestions that with none of them being the fastest, the defence could struggle against pace irrespective of who comes in, and indeed did so against the US, but how would that have been different had Ledley not gone? It would have been exactly the same group of defenders, probably plus another inferior one. At least this way, there's still a chance he could play, and I think if he does, it'll make a big difference to our chances. Nothing's been lost.

King was out there with the rest of them taking part in exercises, and word is that they'll be looking at his injury on 'a day-to-day basis'. Definitely out for Friday but beyond that they seem quite confident it's not as bad they initially feared.

ITV HD's cut-away on Saturday, Green's mare, the Algerian keeper's mare, the vuvuzela issue purportedly hindering players being able to hear each other, the widely lambasted ball, Rio getting injured on the first day, Cahill's lolsome straight red, Ballack/Essien/Mikel/Nani/maybe Robben/maybe Drogba all out, North Korea's striker who has to play as a goalie...

as I said, it's been a great tournament thus far for faintly comical setbacks and whatnot. so early in as well.

The Netherlands have some very talented players, but their squad isn't without its problems. Kuyt, Van der Vaart, Huntelaar and Babel all managed to get into the day's 16 despite either being woefully out of form or even able to get into the side for their respective clubs last season, Van Bronckhorst still manages to get into their side despite being well past his best (and is used at left-back fairly often, isn't he?) and various members of their squad (such as Ooijer, Boulahrouz and Braafheid) either haven't got much experience or have looked average to poor against strong opponents.

I don't think they were quite as good as those covering the match suggested and for all of their 'dominance' they could have very easily come away with just a point, or even nothing, but I'm sure they'll take 1-0.

Just to clarify, which side has issues on paper but less so in practice?

Not that I paid particular attention to them during qualifying, but you certainly didn't hear anything about Van Marwijk destroying their chances like you did about Maradona and Domenech destroying the chances of Argentina and France respectively.

And even aside from that, I think I disagree with your assessment of the squad. Van der Vaart actually had more of a contribution to Real Madrid's season than I think you're giving him credit for, Sneijder was one of the best players in Europe last season, Van Bommel captained the Champions League runners-up, and while Van Persie was injured for most of last season, I think he nonetheless managed to show that he's currently playing at the peak of his ability.

I do agree that the squad has its problems, but with those 4 on the pitch, you'd expect them to have managed more impressive attacking football than they did today. If there was an obvious weakness in today's starting line-up, it was the defence, but the Danes didn't test that enough for it to be criticised.

I could pick individuals out of the French and Argentinian squads who had brilliant seasons, but it doesn't change the fact that both of those sides still have significant problems as squads. I wouldn't disagree with you at all about the likes of Sneijder, Robben and Van Bommel being great players who are capable of doing wonderful things for the Netherlands. I do, however, have doubts about some areas of their play. As you say, their defence is the most obvious weakness (we're worrying about a dearth of defensive players in the England squad but I suspect the Dutch wouldn't mind having the likes of Carragher and Dawson in reserve there) but the likes of Kuyt and Huntelaar aren't the most inspiring forward players either. I can see them being stifled by the tournament's 'elite' sides, as they have been despite a wealth of talent in pretty much every major tournament they've competed in (there are a few exceptions).

I'd agree Serbia can have no complaints. Should have taken one of the two or three good chances they had and shouldn't have given away such an absurd penalty late in the day. Can they beat Germany and save me some money/face? Unlikely ...

You picked out the likes of Huntelaar, Babel and Ooijer before, but none of them even got on the pitch today. All I'm saying is, you would have expected the 11 who started today - especially considering how little Denmark offered going forward - to look a little more impressive.

Perhaps you could say the same about France and Argentina, irrespective of issues which may become evident once you look to their respective benches, or even the areas of their teams which weren't really tested this weekend, but the inability of Maradona and Domenech to fully harness the talent at their disposal is well-documented, so it was unsurprising that they once again failed to do so. As far as I'm aware, Van Marwijk has had no such troubles. And even if he has, the fact I didn't know about them meant I watched the game without the same preconceptions I had watching France and Argentina. In that sense, the performances of the latter two teams weren't refreshing but fairly predictable, in more ways than one.

A win of any kind is a good win, so I'm sure the Netherlands will be happy. I don't think they're a bad side at all, and I'd have thought they'll make it to at least the quarter finals with relative ease. All I was getting at was that it wouldn't surprise me to see them put an underwhelming performance in any more than it would seeing France or Argentina do so. There's a reason the Netherlands are often referred to as the best team to have never won the World Cup, and that's because they often flatter to deceive.

I can accept, if not necessarily agree with, your points. The issues I believe the Dutch have do so seem to be of a different nature to, for example, the French and Argentinians. I guess I'll have a better idea of how they played when I see some highlights tonight but I'll never - NEVER - be surprised that a team featuring Dirk Kuyt weren't too great to watch.

Cameroon have given the ball away every time they've managed to get a hand on it, and don't seem to want to get forward much. Japan, whilst equally inept going forward, at least look like they know how to pass the ball around and keep it on the ground.

neither team look like they know what to do with the ball once they have it. I really hate to be negative about the World Cup but this has been a tournament of misplaced passes, offside traps, defensive tactics and really bad long range efforts so far. And I do wonder how much Jabulani has to do with it.

it's the most annoying thing ever & I can see it interfering with games due to the sheer volume. This has been by far the most ANNOYING world cup I have seen purely because of the constant drone drowning out the crowd and at times the commentary/interviews.

Thought Nakazawa was typically dependable. Surprised he's never got a move out of Japan.

Le Guen never got anything like the best out of either Webo or Eto'o.

And Mark Lawrenson is a twat - he sounds like a moany old woman who knows nothing about football. The commentating and punditry in general has been appalling. Craig Burley (anyone who watches SPL or EPL games on ESPN will know how bad he is; like an even more dull Andy Gray) and Lawrenson can both do one.

have faith. There's no such thing as a shit World Cup, it's just a slow-burner. Teams (Germany aside) haven't really hit their stride yet, and they'll soon realise that a sense of adventure will bring rewards. The more there is at stake as the tournament goes on, the more teams will be forced to leave their comfort zones. I hope.

probably a combination of the new ball, the altitude in most of the stadia, and just good old bad shooting. I think by the time we get to the second round of matches teams will either have figured out that long range shooting is just not going to be very productive, or will have learned to adjust their shots to the conditions.

through history, the most memorable World Cup games are traditionally found toward the latter stages. There does appear to be a relatively cautious approach by most teams thus far, but on the second lot of fixtures, there will naturally be more pressure on teams to commit forward for three points. Fingers-crossed, there should be a bit more entertainment soon!