-ZacWilliam, anyway, my Downeaster Metroplex aside, I morn with you. There was a time where really big toys could be new really big characters. Then there was a time where they would be the leaders, but the leaders didn't have to be Prime or Megatron. Now those days might be gone, I hope not for good...

You're talking about 1987, right? That's what you mean by 'there was a time', right? 1987? Yeah. It must be.

I certainly remember how in Generation 2 we got all these big toys who weren't Prime and Megatron! Wait... no we didn't. But Beast Wars, the biggest toys in Beast Wars weren't Primal and Megatron were they? Oh... except when they were... damn. We CONTINUE to get giant toys of non-Prime, non-Megatron characters nowadays, just like we got them before. And we continue to get a LOT of huge versions of the really popular characters like Prime and Megatron. Just like we have since POWERMASTER OPTIMUS PRIME.

Again, the only difference is the sheer VOLUME of toys we get nowadays.

--Andrew S.(Seriously guys, just look at Dark of the Moon -- we got 3 Leader Class toys, and 1 Ultimate toy. Ironhide, Bumblebee, Sentinel Prime, and Optimus Prime. And that's just last year. Heck the biggest CYBERVERSE playset last year was the Ark, and it had a completely made-up new guy as its only pack-in figure!)

-ZacWilliam, anyway, my Downeaster Metroplex aside, I morn with you. There was a time where really big toys could be new really big characters. Then there was a time where they would be the leaders, but the leaders didn't have to be Prime or Megatron. Now those days might be gone, I hope not for good...

You're talking about 1987, right? That's what you mean by 'there was a time', right? 1987? Yeah. It must be.

Yes. That IS exactly what I was talking about. And 1986 (Metro and Trypty) and, being generous with the definition of Citybot, 1985 (Omega Supreme). Is there a statute of limitations on nostalgia I'm forgetting? Just cause an era ended long ago doesn't mean ya can't mourn it's passing.

85 to 87 was the era of our classic G1 Citybots (or as you could also call it "the era of all our Citybots" ) and since this is the first time Hasbro has come back to the idea since 87 thats the obvious era to look to for compairison. Yes, things changed in the line/toy world in the years since. No it's not a new thing, but still a change that happened that this release makes me notice and regret.

-ZacWilliam, already typed this responce early this morning and then had the PC he was using go pear-shaped before he could post. Hate it when that happens... ;p

Ever wonder about the speed of Turbofoxes?Or the proverbial ailerons of Titanium Moosebots?

*Visit the one and only Cybertronic Bestiary. For a mechazoologic tour of the mechanimals of Cybertron.

Yes. That IS exactly what I was talking about. And 1986 (Metro and Trypty) and, being generous with the definition of Citybot, 1985 (Omega Supreme). Is there a statute of limitations on nostalgia I'm forgetting? Just cause an era ended long ago doesn't mean ya can't mourn it's passing.

85 to 87 was the era of our classic G1 Citybots (or as you could also call it "the era of all our Citybots" ) and since this is the first time Hasbro has come back to the idea since 87 thats the obvious era to look to for compairison. Yes, things changed in the line/toy world in the years since. No it's not a new thing, but still a change that happened that this release makes me notice and regret.

Okay, that's fine. Saying, "I want to compare this to these other four toys because it's the only other frame of reference I have" is actually pretty fine, if you ask me. It's inaccurate, sure, but it's fine. But what I was responding to was this:

QUOTE

There was a time where really big toys could be new really big characters.

But, okay, fair enough. You're actually being nostalgic for the 'Citybots'. That's fine, really it is. And if your only complaint is, "He's not a new character" or, possibly, "He's not based on one of these 'classic' base-mode Transformers" that's fine too.

The thing I take issue with is the way people see false patterns. In Generation 1 Hasbro and Takara created, between them, a total of at LEAST 36 toys with 'base' modes, not including redecos. They tried different things all the time, from having modes that were literally just ramps, to having toys that could combine to create extensive cities. We had a toy with a freakin' Windmill mode in G1.

Hasbro shouldn't look back at G1 and think, "Fortress Maximus, that's the only city Transformer, we should try and replicate him." That's silly. In G1 the play patterns that resembled Cyberverse the closest were the Action Masters (literally half of which were RECYCLED characters) and the Micromasters. I feel like this new toy seems to have been based around that sort of play pattern, in which case it's looking good so far. From this tiny, blurry picture.

I get that people remember Scorponok, Fortress Maximus, Metroplex and Trypticon -- but that excessively narrow view of your OWN HOBBY frustrates me. I feel like all you're doing is setting yourself up for disappointment. Especially when you're introduced to this toy with a name like, "OPTIMUS MAXIMUS."

Personally my guess is that we'll see this toy is packed with another figure. Possibly Bumblebee -- but my guess would be for an actual Optimus Prime toy -- similarly to the Cyberverse Action Sets. I would be seriously surprised if there wasn't some sort of explanation for this 'giant optimus', that explains WHY he's so huge, if only in the tech specs.

Complaints about character, and scale, seem so crazy to me at this point. Since we don't know the answers to EITHER of those questions.

I get that people remember Scorponok, Fortress Maximus, Metroplex and Trypticon -- but that excessively narrow view of your OWN HOBBY frustrates me. I feel like all you're doing is setting yourself up for disappointment. Especially when you're introduced to this toy with a name like, "OPTIMUS MAXIMUS."

I fully agree with all of that.

In fact I think that we should be getting "NEW CHARACTERS". Especially like the AEC Universe.

But I think it's more that people are desperate to see an update.

I know i'd love a new G1ish styled Scorponok but thats because I thought his marvel and cartoon styled head was really cool...

But personally I'd rather Max and Scorpy get voyagers that turn into a battle station of some sort.

I mean, I liked the fact that they weren't technically really bases in the comics but instead were new leaders. I feel that making them bases in the oldschool context is redundant. Their popular leader characters in some fictions. They should be interactive battle tanks with some baselike features. I feel it's more appropiate.

But, you're right about the creating of false expectations. Thats what I was sort of grabbing at earlier when I mentioned if this toy came out during BW's fans would have been freaking out with excitement. At anything thats a g1ish Optimus.

And really we should kind of be a bit more past nostalgic longing by this point. Theres still room for classics style stuff. And even re-innovation of some classics toys that were already made. I feel it's fine for there to be a space for that.

But by this point the fandom should be more secure about not getting g1ish Homages. We should be going towards a direction of New as well.

I won't make any other suggestions because they'd just be Armada stuff. =P

We Know Jazz, and We are very likely to get Grimlock. I'd also be extremely surprised if we didn't get a new Optimus, with his big upgrade. Past that, I want WFC/FOC Ironhide/Ratchet, Trailcutter/Hoist, Gen Arcee, Autobot Triple changers, Shockwave, The other four Dinobots (I'd want Sludge to be a Voyager, as I doubt he'd be Ultra, even though he should be the biggest of the 5). Beyond that, I'd really like to see more late era G1 characters.

There was a time where really big toys could be new really big characters.

But, okay, fair enough. You're actually being nostalgic for the 'Citybots'. That's fine, really it is. And if your only complaint is, "He's not a new character" or, possibly, "He's not based on one of these 'classic' base-mode Transformers" that's fine too.

Good. Didn't feel the need for outside approval, but cool your fine with it I guess.

QUOTE

I get that people remember Scorponok, Fortress Maximus, Metroplex and Trypticon -- but that excessively narrow view of your OWN HOBBY frustrates me. I feel like all you're doing is setting yourself up for disappointment. Especially when you're introduced to this toy with a name like, "OPTIMUS MAXIMUS."

You shouldn't let what other people want out of a hobby frustrate you. They have the right to like and want whatever they want.

Personally what I really want out of a base bot are either those four characters you list above OR a new character in their style. Not a giant Optimus with a base mode. I will not appologize for that. I do not think it is in anyway wrong or limited minded anymore than I think wanting Classics style toys over Movie style ones is.

Different folks like and want different things. That's life. If this toy does it for you, great. To me, it's better than nothing, but distinctly not what I really want.

-ZacWilliam, doesn't see wanting a particular type of toy to be revisited as anything negative in any way.

Edited by ZacWilliam1, 28 January 2012 - 07:22 PM.

Ever wonder about the speed of Turbofoxes?Or the proverbial ailerons of Titanium Moosebots?

*Visit the one and only Cybertronic Bestiary. For a mechazoologic tour of the mechanimals of Cybertron.

I think my views on it line up with the "there was a time" mindset, in that we're both bummed that such a time was then and this is now -- but firmly informed by the idea that whatever might have worked then will not necessarily work now. After all, the game is considerably different now, and so they have to take different steps. I'm reminded of the people who were cheesed that the upcoming Avengers Helicarrier was only going to be half thje size of the Flagg or less. It's 2012, man, things are different now.

Here, Hasbro has to hedge its bets by infusing an Optimus popularity-shot into the new big base-former they're trying [mind, with a name like Optimus Maximus, there wasn't much else the pictures could turn out to be]. This is after three base-vehicles [Ark, Star Hammer, Energon Driller], none of which have an Optimus Prime tied to it [the closest was Roller]. I'm just holding on to the idea that if this does well -- and they seem to be out to help it do that with the Optimus identity -- there'll be more, and those that aren't redecos of this same frame and headsculpt could be more along the lines of characters we were hoping for.

Here, Hasbro has to hedge its bets by infusing an Optimus popularity-shot into the new big base-former they're trying [mind, with a name like Optimus Maximus, there wasn't much else the pictures could turn out to be]. This is after three base-vehicles [Ark, Star Hammer, Energon Driller], none of which have an Optimus Prime tied to it [the closest was Roller]. I'm just holding on to the idea that if this does well -- and they seem to be out to help it do that with the Optimus identity -- there'll be more, and those that aren't redecos of this same frame and headsculpt could be more along the lines of characters we were hoping for.

Well, the Ark coming with Optimus Prime, and the base that is actually a giant robot being a different character, would make a lot more sense than the other way around.

And I don't see how a weird giant Optimus Prime would sell better than an actual huge character; particularly since the latter would probably be on the show (technically, Trypticon is already on the show, he's just always in vehicle mode and possibly "dead") while I'm assuming that Optimus Prime will not get rebuilt into a giant base on the show.

Here, Hasbro has to hedge its bets by infusing an Optimus popularity-shot into the new big base-former they're trying [mind, with a name like Optimus Maximus, there wasn't much else the pictures could turn out to be]. This is after three base-vehicles [Ark, Star Hammer, Energon Driller], none of which have an Optimus Prime tied to it [the closest was Roller]. I'm just holding on to the idea that if this does well -- and they seem to be out to help it do that with the Optimus identity -- there'll be more, and those that aren't redecos of this same frame and headsculpt could be more along the lines of characters we were hoping for.

Well, the Ark coming with Optimus Prime, and the base that is actually a giant robot being a different character, would make a lot more sense than the other way around.

And I don't see how a weird giant Optimus Prime would sell better than an actual huge character; particularly since the latter would probably be on the show (technically, Trypticon is already on the show, he's just always in vehicle mode and possibly "dead") while I'm assuming that Optimus Prime will not get rebuilt into a giant base on the show.

What would make the most sense to me is the Ark coming with SENTINEL Prime, but they didn't even do that. The big basebot being Optimus Prime is not what I would prefer [best compromise would have been a basebot WITH an Optimus pack-in], but it is certainly not beyond the pale. Especially when they out and named it Optimus Maximus.

An Optimus could potentially sell better just by being Optimus. Parents and kids might not be terribly aware of Trypticon, particularly in the circumstances you cite, and might be inclined to pick up Optimus Maximus as their Cyberverse leader. It's PMOP/Star Convoy etc for 2012 except without a necessarily binding in-story reason.