Has anyone seen this film? Did you like it?
I thought it was really sad at the end :( But I don't want to spoil things and please don't include many spoilers as people might not have watched it but did you think it was a reality or fantasy at the end of it all?

I thought it was real and she imagined it all but I'm one of those half glass empty people :D

This was one of the few films that shocked the hell out of me and had me on the edge of my seat the whole time. How did you react to it?

My main question is: Reality or Fantasy?

Earthcane

03-02-08, 00:12

Pan's Labyrinth owns :mis:

I love this movie so much.

Guillermo Del Toro is an idol of mine ;)

Did you not like the ending?
I have to say it was rather poignant.

Obscure

03-02-08, 00:16

Did you not like the ending?
I have to say it was rather poignant.

I loved the ending because it was such a shocker. I thought it was going to end all happily ever after, how much more wrong could I have been XD

Earthcane

03-02-08, 00:18

Yes, I was shocked because the film was marketed as a children's fantasy,
much in the same vein as Narnia.

But some of he things Vidal did were sadistic.

The Faun's really cool, though :D

http://i28.************/sxna1e.jpg

ECB

03-02-08, 00:26

One of the best movies ever.

I think most of it was Ophelia's imagination.

SPOILERS

And when she died I think that was her personal heaven. Meeting her parents and everything and being the princess.

Melonie Tomb Raider

03-02-08, 00:30

LOVE this movie. :jmp:

Earthcane

03-02-08, 00:31

One of the best movies ever.

I think most of it was Ophelia's imagination.

SPOILERS

And when she died I think that was her personal heaven. Meeting her parents and everything and being the princess.
Exactly. I have to admit that the tears were welling up in my eyes when the credits rolled :whi:

The score was perfectly suited to the fantastically dark mood of the story, too.

What did you think of the Pale Man? :eek:
Scared me so bad he gave me nightmares :D

ECB

03-02-08, 00:34

The pale man was scary as hell!! I was on the edge of my seat that entire scene in the theater!

Obscure

03-02-08, 00:37

What did you think of the Pale Man? :eek:
Scared me so bad he gave me nightmares :D

He was freaky!! When he put his eyes in I was like :eek:
What I don't understand was why Ofelia ate the grapes.

I think it was all her imagination too. There are some good theories on imdb as to why it was her imagination. I'll go get them in a minute.

Earthcane

03-02-08, 00:39

The pale man was scary as hell!! I was on the edge of my seat that entire scene in the theater!
Okay, get this- (*Spoiler*)

Ophelia walks into his dining room, full to the brim with delicious cakes and pies and roasts
and she has to go for a grape? :D

Love he part where he fixes his eyes into his palms. Very creepy :eek:

http://i29.************/33m4les.jpg

ECB

03-02-08, 00:39

Oooohhh. I love IMDb. (Sorry, off topic)

Obscure

03-02-08, 00:41

*SPOILERS TO THE EXTREME*

The strongest piece of evidence that the events are all a figment of Ofelia's imagination is the fact that the Captain cannot see the Faun inside the labyrinth. Leading to the speculation that perhaps it really all was a dream made up by a little girl, as suggested by the Captain himself and eventually Ofelia's mother, caught in the middle of an emotional, psychological, and literal war zone. Since this is presented to the audience at the end of the movie during it's climax, it does an incredible job in dispelling the idea that the fantasy world could have been real, and reassures the already questioning that it might not have happened at all. However, del Toro says on the commentary that it just means that the Captain is incapable of seeing the Faun, not that the Faun doesn't exist.

Another piece of evidence pointing toward the imagination theory is that when something happens in Ofelias life a reaction shows up in the fantasy world. For instance: When Ofelia first meets the faun he appears to be friendly. Only after Mercedes tells her to be careful with fauns does it turn into a more ambiguous character. There is also the fact that the writings in her book appears when she touches it, which therefore could be suggesting that she herself writes the story. That the book does not reveal a quest when Ofelia's mother become ill, instead showing blood spreading over the page, is further testament to Ofelia having control over the fantasy, with her worry for her mother being more important than her fairytale. This could be read a different way, as it is the vision of blood that leads Ofelia to find her mother in pain, with the fantasy giving insight into the reality, but since the Faun expresses displeasure that Ofelia has not undertaken the task this does not seem right. Of course, this could be another element of the greater test, playing on Ofelia's loyalties.

The third possible piece of evidence of the Faun's world being an element of Ofelia's imagination is Ofelia's mother and baby sitting on a throne by the King of the Underground Realm. Though it is not said that Ofelia's mother, or a representation of her brother (who is living when Ofelia passes on) would not be there, the fact that they are makes the Underground realm seem overtly heavenly, with Ofelia's family (bar her real father, who we never see in the film) joining her in a paradise

Encore

03-02-08, 00:41

Yes, I was shocked because the film was marketed as a children's fantasy,
much in the same vein as Narnia.

HUGE mistake if you ask me. At the video store I work in, I have to constantly warn families about this movie. It's for over 16 (at least here) but no one ever sees it in DVD boxes and all the rest of the images and story and stuff makes it look like it's similar to LotR or Narnia. The movie is extremely violent!

And great too. :D My favorite part was with that children-eating weirdo monster, I loved it :eek:

Edit: Obscure, realms and characters that only children can see are a common element in the fantasy genre. It simbolizes our loss of inocence and imagination as we grow up. In stories like this one, you can't judge things in black or white, because what's real for adults is not what's real for children.

Earthcane

03-02-08, 00:41

Yeah, It's great for all things lights, camera, action :tmb: ^^

What I never really understood abut the plot was the ultimate question
regarding the Faun: Is he good, or is he Evil??

Obscure

03-02-08, 00:43

Yeah, It's great for all things lights, camera, action :tmb: ^^

What I never really understood abut the plot was the ultimate question
regarding the Faun: Is he good, or is he Evil??

I have an answer for this :)

Give me a moment though and I'll get it.

EDIT: I just realised I answered this above XD Read the second theory about the faun, it explains your answer :)

ECB

03-02-08, 00:44

I think he's neutral. Kinda wicked, but he's good at times. I have mmixed feelings, but leaning towards good.

Encore

03-02-08, 00:46

in sequence to what I added to my post I think the faun is good insofar as he saves Ofelia from the ****ty grown up world. :p

Earthcane

03-02-08, 00:48

Another piece of evidence pointing toward the imagination theory is that when something happens in Ofelias life a reaction shows up in the fantasy world. For instance: When Ofelia first meets the faun he appears to be friendly. Only after Mercedes tells her to be careful with fauns does it turn into a more ambiguous character. There is also the fact that the writings in her book appears when she touches it, which therefore could be suggesting that she herself writes the story

Good point to make, Obscure.

I never thought of it like this.
Maybe because part of me wants to believe it's real :o

Obscure

03-02-08, 00:48

in sequence to what I added to my post I think the faun is good insofar as he saves Ofelia from the ****ty grown up world. :p

I think the faun was Ofelia's imagination. She was a fantasist brought up in a cold world. The fauns personality changed with Ofelias emotions showing that it could have been her imagination.

ECB

03-02-08, 00:49

It's magic! :D

Earthcane

03-02-08, 00:52

I think the faun was Ofelia's imagination. She was a fantasist brought up in a cold world. The fauns personality changed with Ofelias emotions showing that it could have been her imagination.
Then she must have one real over-active imagination :p

True though. She ultimately seeks escape from the world through one which
is equally Dark as the one from which she escapes.

ECB

03-02-08, 00:55

Her step father was evil.

While we're on it, who was everyones favorite character?

I liked Mercedes a lot.

Earthcane

03-02-08, 00:58

^^

Real world: The Doctor (What was his name :confused: )

Fantasy world: The Faun :mis:

Obscure

03-02-08, 00:58

Then she must have one real over-active imagination :p

True though. She ultimately seeks escape from the world through one which
is equally Dark as the one from which she escapes.

Most of the speaking characters in Pans Labyrinth repeatedly explain to Ofelia that fairytales aren't real and that she really needs to grow up and out of them. General exclaims that the root and the faun (after finding the roots under her bed and she says it was the faun) were just her imagination and was all from those 'junk books' that her mother lets her read. The story in the beginning of the girl running out and into the world and going blind and ill and eventually dying maybe the story of Ofelia because once she arived at the mill she soon became blind to the reality around her and ill with mental images and thoughts of her own deluded mind. Eventually we all know what happens and she dies.

On another note, did anyone else like the lullaby that is hummed throughout it really give the film that enchanted feeling? I did.

EDIT: My favourite character was the general. It was odd because your initial response is to instantly dislike him but I like the way the character was developed and brought out. He was tough on the outside but a weak suicidal man on the inside.

Earthcane

03-02-08, 01:08

Most of the speaking characters in Pans Labyrinth repeatedly explain to Ofelia that fairytales aren't real and that she really needs to grow up and out of them. General exclaims that the root and the faun (after finding the roots under her bed and she says it was the faun) were just her imagination and was all from those 'junk books' that her mother lets her read. The story in the beginning of the girl running out and into the world and going blind and ill and eventually dying maybe the story of Ofelia because once she arived at the mill she soon became blind to the reality around her and ill with mental images

:eek:

You're really good at film analysis, Obscure. Yoiu should be a film critic :tmb:
And yes, Vidal is a suicidal character at heart. I think the parrallel with people
such as Hitler is too evident, tho.
I also think Mercedes' journey through the film is very intersting to relate to.

Got something to share with you guys:

http://i30.************/osu9o6.jpg

http://i30.************/2rcpd8p.jpg

I almost died- he's so cute :eek:

:D

PandaINC

03-02-08, 01:09

Oh! I love this movie!

We watched it in Spanish class and it was friggen awesome.

As for my favorite character:
The Pale Man :ton:
He was just so creepy, I loved him.

OFF TOPIC[ish]: Wouldn't it be awesome if Lara had to face someone like him?

Earthcane

03-02-08, 01:10

I've thought about that too :mis:

But I've already checked it out, I cant find any references to him in mythology.

Obscure

03-02-08, 01:31

:eek:

You're really good at film analysis, Obscure. Yoiu should be a film critic :tmb:
And yes, Vidal is a suicidal character at heart. I think the parrallel with people
such as Hitler is too evident, tho.
I also think Mercedes' journey through the film is very intersting to relate to.

Thank you XD I get very analytical with plotlines and begin to nitpick them when I'm bored XD I wish I could be a film critic. All those free films and before the release date too :P

I love the way the characters are sneakily portrayed. You wouldn't be able to see the differences so bluntly the first time you watch it when you watch it again you pick up on things.

OFF TOPIC[ish]: Wouldn't it be awesome if Lara had to face someone like him?

When the film started and I saw Ofelia and the portal, the first thing that strung into my mind was young Lara and the dais in Nepal. XD

I've thought about that too :mis:

But I've already checked it out, I cant find any references to him in mythology.

He's not a mythological character. His design was based on an old hyroglimph (sp) of a man eating his son. The director then expanded idea's and made the pale man throughout this notebook that he carried around for 20 years. Just an interesting fact for you :)

Earthcane

03-02-08, 01:36

Thank you XD I get very analytical with plotlines and begin to nitpick them when I'm bored XD I wish I could be a film critic. All those free films and before the release date too :P

I love the way the characters are sneakily portrayed. You wouldn't be able to see the differences so bluntly the first time you watch it when you watch it again you pick up on things.

When the film started and I saw Ofelia and the portal, the first thing that strung into my mind was young Lara and the dais in Nepal. XD

He's not a mythological character. His design was based on an old hyroglimph (sp) of a man eating his son. The director then expanded idea's and made the pale man throughout this notebook that he carried around for 20 years. Just an interesting fact for you :)
I had heard about that notebook, but had always thought it was based on the myth
of Periphetes from Theseus.

He would be more suited as a villain in a Silent Hill game, IMO.

FYI (If you didn't already know) The Faun and The Pale Man is played by the same actor,
Doug Jones who also plays Abe Sapien and the Angel Of Death in Del Toro's Hellboy films.

digitizedboy

03-02-08, 01:44

It's been on Film4. But I never got around to seeing it. From the trailers though it looks fabulous. It's subtitled here on British TV, but I don't need to read them. :) I just hope they show it again, God damn them.

(I've avoided looking at other peoples comments here. :))

Earthcane

03-02-08, 01:49

You should rent it, It's definitely worth it :tmb:

But FilmFour like showing more un-shown films, right? Like foreign movies?

digitizedboy

03-02-08, 02:04

You should rent it, It's definitely worth it :tmb:

But FilmFour like showing more un-shown films, right? Like foreign movies?

I'll see if I can rent it one of the days. :D

I guess they do. But that's great that they show world cinema. Something diverse is more interesting, I think. :)

Obscure

03-02-08, 11:05

Did anyone like the lullaby played throughout the film? I thought it was amazing. :)

McGloomy

03-02-08, 12:07

Did anyone like the lullaby played throughout the film? I thought it was amazing. :)
Yeah, it was magical... =)

I remember watching that movie with a friend. We expected a nice fantasy film (like most people I guess), but when we read that it was 16+ we got the feeling that we had been terribly wrong... She was pretty shocked and I was freaked out too! Nevertheless: the film is a masterpiece.

What I loved about the ending was the small flower on the dead tree. It was the perfect symbol for Ofelia. Her imagination couldn't change the horrible problems of the real world, but at least she was able to change something . This flower seemed very real for me in this moment. It's not like she died without leaving a trace of her existence, so not everything was fantasy.

Earthcane

03-02-08, 12:08

Did anyone like the lullaby played throughout the film? I thought it was amazing. :)
Haunting, magical and charmingly creepy :tmb:

Legends

03-02-08, 12:09

I've seen it. I thought it was okay. Hard to follow as it was in Spanish, I really needed those English subtitles.

McGloomy

03-02-08, 12:15

Hard to follow as it was in Spanish, I really needed those English subtitles.

I'm glad that in Germany everything is dubbed. So I get to understand the story and can watch the original later anyway. :D

Earthcane

03-02-08, 12:17

I've seen it. I thought it was okay. Hard to follow as it was in Spanish, I really needed those English subtitles.
Hmm, the subtitles you get used to as the show progresses. Admitedly, the Spanish
was lost on me so had to I rely on them.

For me, it doesn't take away from the cinematic experience just like Amelie or Crouching Tiger.

rowanlim

03-02-08, 15:33

Oh man, I want to see it, but it's no longer showing in my country :(

danitiwa

03-02-08, 15:43

I found it so incredibly gruesome I couldn't bear to watch more than about 10 minutes.

But the design of the movie is wonderfull.

Lara Croft!

03-02-08, 15:53

It was a good movie but SO sad!

Ward Dragon

03-02-08, 15:54

Pan's Labyrinth is amazing :D

I think it is intentionally ambiguous about whether everything is actually real because it doesn't matter -- what matters is that it is real to Ophelia.

About the Faun, I definitely got the vibe that Ophelia shouldn't trust him (before he overtly did anything suspicious) but I wasn't sure if he was actually evil. Whether or not he was actually real, he certainly seemed to be reacting to what Ophelia wanted. For example, she seems to want to fight for her mother, so the Faun provides resistance for her to overcome. She also seems to want things to fall apart on some level because she can't believe everything would be so easy, which I think is why she eats the grapes. It's also why she can't just save her brother -- she wants to be tested first, which is why the Faun demands that she kill him. That's my interpretation of it :)

Forwen

03-02-08, 15:58

This film officially humiliated my 6th sense.

Through half of it I was trying to figure out who's going to die and become the story's martyr. I picked Mercedes. And what happened? Everyone else apart from Mercedes died. Pffft.

Obscure

03-02-08, 16:51

This film officially humiliated my 6th sense.

Through half of it I was trying to figure out who's going to die and become the story's martyr. I picked Mercedes. And what happened? Everyone else apart from Mercedes died. Pffft.

I thought Mercedes was going to die too. I never expected the ending to come out like it did but I'm glad it was like it was, gore and all XD

Earthcane

03-02-08, 17:08

I thought Mercedes was going to die too. I never expected the ending to come out like it did but I'm glad it was like it was, gore and all XD
I disagree, I realised Mercedes wasn't going to die about half way through the movie.
It became obvious that she was the central protagonist, in the real-world story.

She has to sneak food and supplies to the rebels without being caught, which is a
very intense part of the tale in it's own right.

ECB

03-02-08, 17:20

I though Mercedes was gonna die, but she was the central protagonist. So, that's probably why she lived.

I loved how she gave the captain that permanent smile. :D

Earthcane

03-02-08, 17:28

Yeah, that must've hurt :jmp:

star-dust

03-02-08, 17:38

I though Mercedes was gonna die, but she was the central protagonist. So, that's probably why she lived.

I loved how she gave the captain that permanent smile. :D

That part shocked me!

I love this movie! I thought it was a children's movie when I bought it, popped it in the DVD player and it said Rated R I was like what the hell, mom did you know this?! So we began to watch it and I was on the edge of my seat the whole time, I'd cover my eyes during some parts but I could never keep them closed and would aways have to open them because I knew I didn't want to miss what happend.

Great movie though overall, it was sad. But it got you thinking. I'd watch it again and again.:D

Earthcane

03-02-08, 17:41

That part shocked me!

I love this movie! I thought it was a children's movie when I bought it, popped it in the DVD player and it said Rated R I was like what the hell, mom did you know this?! So we began to watch it and I was on the edge of my seat the whole time, I'd cover my eyes during some parts but I could never keep them closed and would aways have to open them because I knew I didn't want to miss what happend.

Great movie though overall, it was sad. But it got you thinking. I'd watch it again and again.:D
Yeah, it was marketed as a children's movie, but I was shocked at how graphically violent it was.

The special effects were out of this world, as with all Del Toro movies.

I'd cover my eyes during some parts but I could never keep them closed and would aways have to open them because I knew I didn't want to miss what happend.

Ditto :D

ECB

03-02-08, 17:43

I hate the part when the captain beats the son and the father in to that bloody pulp. I cant watch that part.

jagged halo

03-02-08, 17:45

This film made me cry... God that bit at the beginning where that man's face is being smashed in... definitely deserves an 18 rating because of that, but it's still a 15 *sigh*
I was a bit dumb to start with because I didn't know it was a Spanish film, so there was me trying to find it in English.

touchthesky

03-02-08, 17:45

Is the book any good?

Obscure

03-02-08, 17:47

Is the book any good?

There is no book for it. The director wrote the story himself as I've been told. He kept a notebook with all the drawings and storylines for it around with him for twenty years.

touchthesky

03-02-08, 17:47

I just realised that after I posted that lol, I was thinking of something different.

Earthcane

03-02-08, 17:54

There is no book for it. The director wrote the story himself as I've been told. He kept a notebook with all the drawings and storylines for it around with him for twenty years.
The notebook actually makes it into the movie, It's in the scene where Ofelia
meets Vidal for the first time. Or so I've heard on the Hellboy blog.

touchthesky, I love your avatar! Harley forever :jmp:

Obscure

03-02-08, 18:11

Oh wow. I didn't know that XD

I figured out the answer to my question about the grapes and why she eats them so don't worry about answering it :)

Ada the Mental

03-02-08, 19:16

Definitely one of my favourite movies.:D
I love the story, the characters, the ambiguity between reality and imagination, the atmosphere...

I think I've decided that was reality and not just her imagination, mainly because don't want to be in her head. The only evidence that really points to the whole thing being real, though, is the way she got out of the room Vidal had locked her in, using the chalk, and later the pathway in the labyrinth that opened for her but not for him.

I loved how she gave the captain that permanent smile. :D
Me too, but I found it somewhat hard to believe that she didn't kill him when she had the chance. But maybe she thought it'd be pointless, since there would be a new captain, perhaps even worse than Vidal.

Bit :off:: Honestly, how could anyone enjoy watching a dubbed film? They usually sound too fake,IMO. Subtitles all the way!:p

Obscure

03-02-08, 19:20

Definitely one of my favourite movies.:D
I love the story, the characters, the ambiguity between reality and imagination, the atmosphere...

I think I've decided that was reality and not just her imagination, mainly because don't want to be in her head. The only evidence that really points to the whole thing being real, though, is the way she got out of the room Vidal had locked her in, using the chalk, and later the pathway in the labyrinth that opened for her but not for him.

Me too, but I found it somewhat hard to believe that she didn't kill him when she had the chance. But maybe she thought it'd be pointless, since there would be a new captain, perhaps even worse than Vidal.

Bit :off:: Honestly, how could anyone enjoy watching a dubbed film? They usually sound too fake,IMO. Subtitles all the way!:p

I agree completely about the dubs! I'm glad it's in Spanish as it gives that enchanted feeling (I don't know the language fluently) and that aura of the unknown.
You can focus more on expression than the words.
As my favourite saying goes: You can learn more about a person by not saying one word.

Also the permanent smile was brilliant but I've always called that cut movement a 'Chelsea Smile' I think that's the right name for it.

Earthcane

03-02-08, 22:23

I don't mind the subtitles. The lip synching in movies that are dubbed is laughable.

I figured out the answer to my question about the grapes and why she eats them so don't worry about answering it

Where, Obscure? :confused:

Obscure

03-02-08, 22:32

Where, Obscure? :confused:

Just through thinking of the movie. Remember Ofelia wasn't allowed any supper the night before remember also with rations she would have been starving. Having a feast in front of you when your that hungry would surely give you temptation.
If not enough she spots the grapes, a pure delicacy (remember this is set at times when the luxury of Grapes would have only been afforded by the rich) and especially during the war when everything was being rationed. Notice how she's savours the flavour of the grapes? It's because she knows there like the forbidden fruit (adam and eve) but yet the temptation is too much. In adam and eve they ate the fruit even though they were sure that it was bad for them to do so as it was all lead by temptation or as people call it by the 'siren songs' which allured her to eat them. The fact she was starving wouldn't have helped neither XD

Also another thing I noticed in Pans Labyrinth as to why it was in all in Ofelias mind was because remember when she shows the picture of the fairy to the stick insect and it transforms into a fairy? It's because she wanted it to be a fairy, showing it was possibly in her mind.

Earthcane

03-02-08, 22:40

Nice analysis, there :tmb:

I hadn't taken rationing into account. Some big budget movies nowadays ( I'm pointing at
you, Saving Private Ryan :mis:) focus too much on the big explosions and epic moments of world war II warfare.

It's nice to see realism in a movie like this, the suffering and hardship of the rebels and
the provisions taken by the manor staff like rationing.

Another point I'd like to make has been raised by you, too, Obscure:
It was Mercedes who told Ofelia to be wary of Fauns.

But if you have a reson for mostly every magical happening so far, how does Ofelia
even know what a Faun looks like?

Obscure

03-02-08, 22:55

She's been reading those fairytale books that 'fill her head with garbage' as claimed by her mother and General Vidal. Maybe she read a book which contained a faun in it and it set her imagination going. Like as she read the book which contained fairies in it when she met the stick insect creature she wanted it to be a Fairy and so it became one (because she'd read about the fairies in her book). I'll have to see that book she's holding in the beginning scenes of the film. Maybe one of the books is a story of a faun.

Earthcane

03-02-08, 22:56

^^ Probably right. :tmb:

Change of topic: Have you any connections for the Giant Frog and the real-world?

Obscure

03-02-08, 23:11

^^ Probably right. :tmb:

Change of topic: Have you any connections for the Giant Frog and the real-world?

Hmm... Not too sure about the frog and the real world but it could have been a figment of her imagination.
I was thinking of the stories and their involvements in Pans Labyrinth.

The Story she Tells her Brother of the Rose = Sleeping Beauty.

Frog = Toad and The Princess

Eating the Grapes = Hansel and Grettal

Doing Tasks before the moon is full = Cinderella

Ofelia wanting to be something she can't = Pinocchio

The three doors = Alice in Wonderland

Ofelia and the faun = Beauty and the Beast

Doing tasks to become what she wants = The Little Mermaid.

Giving everything up to do what's right = The Little Mermaid (again)

And theres a lot more :)

Theres huge revelance to fairytales (not as blatent as you might think) but it's there.
I'm not too sure about the frog though. I'll have to think more about it.

Also the stories I was talking of above are not the disney movie type ones but the real written book ones which are dark and scary and were orginally set for adults. Ever read the little mermaid without feeling uncomfortable?

Earthcane

03-02-08, 23:15

Fairy tales has always had that deep, unsettling underlying quality to them that Del Toro teases out to horrifying effect :tmb:

The Story she Tells her Brother of the Rose = Sleeping Beauty.

I think that's conjecture :o Maybe there is a real Spanish fairy tale similar to it, which Guillermo chose to use in his film? I dunno.

I like the way you've tied The Little Mermaid to Ofelia- the similarity is intriguing :tmb:

Obscure

03-02-08, 23:25

I think that's conjecture :o Maybe there is a real Spanish fairy tale similar to it, which Guillermo chose to use in his film? I dunno.

I like the way you've tied The Little Mermaid to Ofelia- the similarity is intriguing :tmb:

I may sound stupid but what the hell: What does Conjecture mean?
I look on wiki but it's only got mathematical reasons.

The reason I put together the rose and sleeping beauty was because the story was of a rose way up top a mountain for years. Everyone was too scared to get it yet they all wanted what it held. The thorns surrounding it were full of poison and so the men were afraid to get the rose. Also when the prince eventually (after a hundred years) finds Aurora she's holding a red rose and the book repeatedly tells how her lips were as red as roses and her cheeks of rosey complexion.

Earthcane

03-02-08, 23:39

I may sound stupid but what the hell: What does Conjecture mean?
I look on wiki but it's only got mathematical reasons.

The reason I put together the rose and sleeping beauty was because the story was of a rose way up top a mountain for years. Everyone was too scared to get it yet they all wanted what it held. The thorns surrounding it were full of poison and so the men were afraid to get the rose. Also when the prince eventually (after a hundred years) finds Aurora she's holding a red rose and the book repeatedly tells how her lips were as red as roses and her cheeks of rosey complexion.
Ah, I see the connection now. It's been a while since I've seen that scene, I really should buy the movie.

I may sound stupid but what the hell: What does Conjecture mean?
I look on wiki but it's only got mathematical reasons.

From my trusty thesaurus :whi:

1. guesswork: the formation of judgments or opinions on the basis of incomplete or inconclusive information
The origin of this ritual is a matter of conjecture.

2. something guessed: a conclusion, judgment, or statement based on incomplete or inconclusive information

This definition isnt really summing up what I meant. I just meant that drawing a parallel
with Sleeping Beautuy seemed a bit obvious.

But I getcha now :tmb:

ECB

04-02-08, 03:18

Hmm... Not too sure about the frog and the real world but it could have been a figment of her imagination.
I was thinking of the stories and their involvements in Pans Labyrinth.

The Story she Tells her Brother of the Rose = Sleeping Beauty.

Frog = Toad and The Princess

Eating the Grapes = Hansel and Grettal

Doing Tasks before the moon is full = Cinderella

Ofelia wanting to be something she can't = Pinocchio

The three doors = Alice in Wonderland

Ofelia and the faun = Beauty and the Beast

Doing tasks to become what she wants = The Little Mermaid.

Giving everything up to do what's right = The Little Mermaid (again)

And theres a lot more :)

Theres huge revelance to fairytales (not as blatent as you might think) but it's there.
I'm not too sure about the frog though. I'll have to think more about it.

Also the stories I was talking of above are not the disney movie type ones but the real written book ones which are dark and scary and were orginally set for adults. Ever read the little mermaid without feeling uncomfortable?

Whoa. Great thinking...

psychokitten

04-02-08, 03:59

I hated this movie :\ I really need to sit through it again I think though, as I was expecting a much more fluffy, fantasy type movie and was met with a rather violent film!

Tyrannosaurus

04-02-08, 05:04

Del Toro himself officially said that the fantasy elements are every bit as "real" as the rest of the film. In fact, one of the reasons this movie is so powerful is because it presents both a fantastic world and a real one, and each one is utterly real. The question posed isn't something as shallow as "What is the nature of reality?" And the ending isn't a shaggy dog. This movie is not a psychological thriller, a mind-twister, or a philosophical treatise on the nature of reality. The movie isn't about any of that. To dwell on those points is to miss the heart of the movie.

Of course it's ambiguous, and of course Vidal can't see the Faun. The movie makes a point of the fact that there are a lot of other things this cretinous fascist can't see, and not all of them are fantastic. It also makes a point of the fact that Ofelia's mother dies the moment she denies the existence of magic.

Screw the heartless, soulless, and cynical fantasies that offer no sustence for those starving for dreams. Screw post-modern irony, egocentric histrionics, and sensationalism. I haven't seen any movie that's even capable of TOUCHING this one. This is one of the best fantasy movies ever made, and made all the more poignant and memorable because (a) it's actually about something, and (b) it has the courage of its convictions. A very rare thing in movies indeed.