I’ll believe this when you teach a border collie to hunt or a bloodhound to herd.
Breeds have natural instincts to do what they were bred for (you’ll often see collies ‘herding’, pointers ‘pointing’, hounds ‘tracking’, shepherds ‘guarding’ and so on... without any training whatsoever.)

You train the ‘command’ in order to refine it, control it and/or modify it to suit your needs.

So a trained security dog might be taught to bite arms and ‘take down’ an intruder, while my girl will bark and bite whatever she feels like biting.

A Labrador isn’t a ‘natural’ guide dog- thus why they must have extensive training to be made guide dogs (they are retrievers after all...). And FYI it was the GSD who was the first guide dogs, but they were eventually disused as they have a higher aggression than Labs.

Jacks can take on anything and everything because that’s how they were bred. It’s in their genetic code to be little nutters. High drive, high pain tolerance, high determination, low fear... in all a little dog who thinks he’s a lion. They won’t look before they leap because that’s how’re they’re bred (because a dog has to be pretty insane to take on a predator twice their size as they were bred to).

To reply to vamp’s statement of a bulldog who won’t bother with small dogs, again, how they were bred to be. They’re bred to hang off bulls, not bother with rabbits. They don’t have a very high prey drive at all so a small dog is hardly a bother to them.

And to bring up the pitbull debate (oh boy, here we go...).
The American Pitbull Terrier was a born fighting dog. High aggression, high drive, high determination, high pain tolerance... they were not bred as ‘pet’ dogs. No one in their right mind would want one as a pet- they were bred to kill and kill and kill. Most ‘pitbulls’ around today are staffy mutts- and no one in Aus has a ‘real’ APBT- any I’ve seen are staffyx, amstaffx, bulldogx or mastiffx. I’m willing to bet over 90% of ‘pitbulls’ don’t have a single drop of real APBT blood in them.

Only dogs I’ve ever been bitten by was a spaniel, chi, and some Maltese mix. And the neighbours shiba has a thing about biting my shoes...

Click to expand...

Dude, you are on my level...RIGHT ON! Well said!

The Only dogs I've ever been bitten by were 2X Blue heelers, 1X red heeler, 1X Rottweiler and 1X Border collie. My Jacks will not bite another human unless you physically abuse the hell out of them... I was walking in public minding my own business on all occasions when I was bitten by large dogs. Still have the scars.

Anddddd... a pedigree Jack would belt the living p*ss out of any Aussie "pit-bull" any day.

I’ll believe this when you teach a border collie to hunt or a bloodhound to herd.
Breeds have natural instincts to do what they were bred for (you’ll often see collies ‘herding’, pointers ‘pointing’, hounds ‘tracking’, shepherds ‘guarding’ and so on... without any training whatsoever.)

You train the ‘command’ in order to refine it, control it and/or modify it to suit your needs.

So a trained security dog might be taught to bite arms and ‘take down’ an intruder, while my girl will bark and bite whatever she feels like biting.

A Labrador isn’t a ‘natural’ guide dog- thus why they must have extensive training to be made guide dogs (they are retrievers after all...). And FYI it was the GSD who was the first guide dogs, but they were eventually disused as they have a higher aggression than Labs.

Jacks can take on anything and everything because that’s how they were bred. It’s in their genetic code to be little nutters. High drive, high pain tolerance, high determination, low fear... in all a little dog who thinks he’s a lion. They won’t look before they leap because that’s how’re they’re bred (because a dog has to be pretty insane to take on a predator twice their size as they were bred to).

To reply to vamp’s statement of a bulldog who won’t bother with small dogs, again, how they were bred to be. They’re bred to hang off bulls, not bother with rabbits. They don’t have a very high prey drive at all so a small dog is hardly a bother to them.

And to bring up the pitbull debate (oh boy, here we go...).
The American Pitbull Terrier was a born fighting dog. High aggression, high drive, high determination, high pain tolerance... they were not bred as ‘pet’ dogs. No one in their right mind would want one as a pet- they were bred to kill and kill and kill. Most ‘pitbulls’ around today are staffy mutts- and no one in Aus has a ‘real’ APBT- any I’ve seen are staffyx, amstaffx, bulldogx or mastiffx. I’m willing to bet over 90% of ‘pitbulls’ don’t have a single drop of real APBT blood in them.

Only dogs I’ve ever been bitten by was a spaniel, chi, and some Maltese mix. And the neighbours shiba has a thing about biting my shoes...

Click to expand...

I have the paperwork to prove my dog was 100% Pitbull, sixth generation charts that go back to America. They are not bred to kill, kill, kill as you say. This is something taught when young.
No-one in their right mind hey, do some research before making bold statements like that. My dog was as aggressive as a Labrador, not a killing machine as you make them out to be.
Yes there are a lot of crossed mutts, but these don't meet the breed standard, most being a lot shorter and a lot less stocky.

I have the paperwork to prove my dog was 100% Pitbull, sixth generation charts that go back to America. They are not bred to kill, kill, kill as you say. This is something taught when young.
No-one in their right mind hey, do some research before making bold statements like that. My dog was as aggressive as a Labrador, not a killing machine as you make them out to be.
Yes there are a lot of crossed mutts, but these don't meet the breed standard, most being a lot shorter and a lot less stocky.

Click to expand...

There’s no ‘legitimate’ registery that will register ABPTs. Only the UKC which is a well known sham registry (I think someone registered a stuffed dog on there as well as several other non dogs, all as ‘purebred pitbulls’).

And yes, I do know a thing or two about dogs having worked in competive obedience, agility, rally-o as well as having had the pleasure of watching the training of military dogs as they demonstrated their bite work.

The Only dogs I've ever been bitten by were 2X Blue heelers, 1X red heeler, 1X Rottweiler and 1X Border collie. My Jacks will not bite another human unless you physically abuse the hell out of them... I was walking in public minding my own business on all occasions when I was bitten by large dogs. Still have the scars.

Anddddd... a pedigree Jack would belt the living p*ss out of any Aussie "pit-bull" any day.

Click to expand...

They sure are nuts. Was told by a friend who went to a kennel to pick up a pup that as he passed by each kennel, he would have sworn the jacks had trampolines as flooring as they were jumping up to his eye level.

I’m not a small dog person, but they’d certainly be my first small dog choice if it ever came to that.

They sure are nuts. Was told by a friend who went to a kennel to pick up a pup that as he passed by each kennel, he would have sworn the jacks had trampolines as flooring as they were jumping up to his eye level.

I’m not a small dog person, but they’d certainly be my first small dog choice if it ever came to that.

I still remember the day I went outside to find a snake head...then about 10 metres away was my Jack Russell sitting next to the body as it twitched away. He ripped the things head clean off, it wasn't a big snake, maybe 1.2m but dam he knew exactly what he was doing.

He never was aggressive toward humans, only to other dogs, never really liked any dogs upon first meeting, would tolerate/ignore them once he got to know them.

The White'Terrier was often bred with larger rangier bull types to bring their size down for the initial purpose of ratting. Ratting was a gambling sport that often took place in holes or Pits dug in the center of pubs where a certain number of rats were released and then a dog released in the Pit for a certain period of time. At the end of the allotted time the number of rats killed was added up and the dog with the most kills was the winner. This sport was perpetuated due in part to Bull baiting being made illegal. Because space was limited in most pubs the Bully breeds that took part in the sport needed to be bred down in size for this new sporting and gambling activity. Adding terrier to the mix was a natural conclusion as terriers were known for their natural inclination for small game hunting. This is where the American Pit Bull Terrier got the name Pit added to its name. Many people who are uneducated or mis-educated on the Pit Bull make the mistake that the breed got its name first from fighting other dogs.

I still remember the day I went outside to find a snake head...then about 10 metres away was my Jack Russell sitting next to the body as it twitched away. He ripped the things head clean off, it wasn't a big snake, maybe 1.2m but dam he knew exactly what he was doing.

He never was aggressive toward humans, only to other dogs, never really liked any dogs upon first meeting, would tolerate/ignore them once he got to know them.

Click to expand...

You're spot on mate, so many people in Toowoomba treat the entire city as an off leash dog park... So many times I've been out with my dogs running (all on leads) and other people's dogs (unleashed) have come running up to us... I've always yelled out "can you please restrain your dog/s?" to which the reply is usually, "he's right, he won't hurt your little ones"... and I'm like "it's not my little ones I'm worried about...." People just do NOT get it... Jacks do not like other dogs approaching them.. period. On the beach that day, that wasn't my fault... that was due to the ignorance of a person with very little intelligence.

Nowadays I carry a big stick to whack other dogs if they come up to us... I'd sooner give them a swift clip then have to pry my jacks off them...

The White'Terrier was often bred with larger rangier bull types to bring their size down for the initial purpose of ratting. Ratting was a gambling sport that often took place in holes or Pits dug in the center of pubs where a certain number of rats were released and then a dog released in the Pit for a certain period of time. At the end of the allotted time the number of rats killed was added up and the dog with the most kills was the winner. This sport was perpetuated due in part to Bull baiting being made illegal. Because space was limited in most pubs the Bully breeds that took part in the sport needed to be bred down in size for this new sporting and gambling activity. Adding terrier to the mix was a natural conclusion as terriers were known for their natural inclination for small game hunting. This is where the American Pit Bull Terrier got the name Pit added to its name. Many people who are uneducated or mis-educated on the Pit Bull make the mistake that the breed got its name first from fighting other dogs.

@Buggster Have you had any contact with Pitbulls or are you just going off what the media portrays them to be?

Click to expand...

ADBA is not a legit registry. Only ‘legit’ ones are ANKC, AKC, CKC (Canadian, not continental) and so on.
Not only are only 3 generations ‘pedigree’ required to make a dog ‘purebred’, if you browse the pictures of ‘pitbulls’ on their site, there is no conformity to the dogs. Head shape, jaw type, body structure... and so on are all over the place. No way anyone who knows anything about what defines a ‘breed’ would class them under a single ‘breed’. They’re all mongrels as far as I’m concerned.

Pitbulls are named as such (as you said yourself), for fighting in pits. Perhaps yes, initially against bulls, but as you said, when this was restricted they began to use them for dog-on-dog matches.

And hey, the German Shepherd started out as a simple sheepdog. After generations of breeding they became a protection/guardian dog. Just as the pitbull might have been bred for bull baiting stock with the intention to turn it into a dog fighter.

And no, I haven’t worked with the APBT because there are none in the country. And I wouldn’t want to work with one either, as the only thing a real one is good for is dog fighting. I don’t care how much you pay me, I can’t make a Bloodhound a herding dog, just as you can’t make a APBT a family pet.

You said above that you own(ed?) a pitbull. Please, post an image of the dog and I’ll prove to you that the dog is not an APBT. And if by some chance your dog does resemble an pitty, if it’s the sweet family pet you say it is, there’s no way it’s an APBT, just an unfortunate lookalike

ADBA is not a legit registry. Only ‘legit’ ones are ANKC, AKC, CKC (Canadian, not continental) and so on.
Not only are only 3 generations ‘pedigree’ required to make a dog ‘purebred’, if you browse the pictures of ‘pitbulls’ on their site, there is no conformity to the dogs. Head shape, jaw type, body structure... and so on are all over the place. No way anyone who knows anything about what defines a ‘breed’ would class them under a single ‘breed’. They’re all mongrels as far as I’m concerned.

Pitbulls are named as such (as you said yourself), for fighting in pits. Perhaps yes, initially against bulls, but as you said, when this was restricted they began to use them for dog-on-dog matches.

And hey, the German Shepherd started out as a simple sheepdog. After generations of breeding they became a protection/guardian dog. Just as the pitbull might have been bred for bull baiting stock with the intention to turn it into a dog fighter.

And no, I haven’t worked with the APBT because there are none in the country. And I wouldn’t want to work with one either, as the only thing a real one is good for is dog fighting. I don’t care how much you pay me, I can’t make a Bloodhound a herding dog, just as you can’t make a APBT a family pet.

You said above that you own(ed?) a pitbull. Please, post an image of the dog and I’ll prove to you that the dog is not an APBT. And if by some chance your dog does resemble an pitty, if it’s the sweet family pet you say it is, there’s no way it’s an APBT, just an unfortunate lookalike

Click to expand...

Did you actually read what I posted? I didn't say anything about them and the naming, I copied and pasted the first paragraph. Maybe take a few breaths and re-read what I posted.
If you haven't had any dealings with them you are going off the 'Media Pitbull' not the real Pitbull.
Have a look in the dog thread, I posted his picture not long ago.

i thought this was supposed to be about blue tongues not dogs but any way my favorite dogs are Dogo Argintino and Tosa which are both very illegal in Australia i know a friend in my area who has the placid est pit bull ive met

i thought this was supposed to be about blue tongues not dogs but any way my favorite dogs are Dogo Argintino and Tosa which are both very illegal in Australia i know a friend in my area who has the placid est pit bull ive met

Click to expand...

It was about blue tongues, I wanted to know if they'd keep coming back no matter how many times I move them out of harms way... I thought that would be a simple solution... obviously it's Not, now I know that I just need to make a few little changes so that the blueys can have a refuge and the Jack's can't harass them... too easy. I just wasn't aware that blue tongues had such a strong homing behaviour.

It was about blue tongues, I wanted to know if they'd keep coming back no matter how many times I move them out of harms way... I thought that would be a simple solution... obviously it's Not, now I know that I just need to make a few little changes so that the blueys can have a refuge and the Jack's can't harass them... too easy. I just wasn't aware that blue tongues had such a strong homing behaviour.

Each breed of dog has been selectively bred for certain attributes. These may be physical attributes alone or primarily behavioural. For breeds based on physical attributes is appropriate to formalise these and expect members of the breed to conform to a highly specific set of narrow physical criteria. Where the breed is based primarily on behavioural characteristics, these take precedence over physical characteristics and depending upon the genetics of the breed, this can result in differing degrees of degrees of physical variation within the breed.

… there is no conformity to the dogs. Head shape, jaw type, body structure... and so on are all over the place. No way anyone who knows anything about what defines a ‘breed’ would class them under a single ‘breed’. …

Click to expand...

Jack Russell Terriers were bred as a working dog for fox hunting. Although primarily behavioural, this required physical attributes that enable it to follow foxes down earths and manoeuvre underground as freely as the fox does. They are genetically variable in physical features, with a broad standard but less so in their instinctive hunting behaviours. Based on the above quoted criterion. Jack Russell Terriers also cannot be considered as a breed.

… And hey, the German Shepherd started out as a simple sheepdog. After generations of breeding they became a protection/guardian dog ….

Click to expand...

From the start GSD’s were bred to guard the flock and stop it from straying into adjoining crops. Intelligence that allowed training to stop the flock wandering into specified areas was also selected for. These attributes of protection of home territory and its occupants, loyalty/responsiveness to its owner, and intelligence and trainability, have been selected for from the outset and are what suit it to the role of protection/guardian dog in modern situations, including families.