The main things that made both TSSM and EMH good were their continuous plots that were built up over multiple episodes and climaxed at various points in the seasons. Loeb has stated on the record he's against those specific things and would prefer simply having one-shot episodes the entire way through. It doesn't help that the smart humor that both EMH and TSSM used, which also played a role in why they were so good, is completely antithetical to what has been shown in Ultimate Spider-Man and if that cellphone line from the trailer is any indication that won't be changing in Avengers Assemble.

First of all that is only your opinion.

Show me the actual quote where Loeb says he is against those specific things.

Your own bias shows because you are already condemning Avengers Assemble for Falcon making a joke about his cell phone when all your favorite shows you think are so superior had similar lines frequently.

I agree with Dent on the cell phone line, it was lame and very USM-ish. It had that juvenlie 'insert humor here...' vibe that is so prevelant in the new Spidey series. Instead of engaging us with more organic humor, it takes away our enjoyment. The jokes bang us over the head with a giant clown mallet. Will give it a chance to prove me wrong.

Well that is inherent and goes without saying considering it's coming out of my mouth (or keyboard as it were). I'm speaking for me obviously, but seeing as a lot of people share the same opinion, it's a valid complaint.

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Show me the actual quote where Loeb says he is against those specific things.

I'm pretty sure you yourself posted about Loeb saying he doesn't want continuous stories and believes one-shots are what work in cartoons earlier in this thread. Either way, it's well documented and has been brought up numerous times, I'm not about to scour google for the exact quote to prove a point to you.

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Your own bias shows because you are already condemning Avengers Assemble for Falcon making a joke about his cell phone when all your favorite shows you think are so superior had similar lines frequently.

No I'm not. I said it appears that way, that is not in any way condemning it. You being so sensitive about it is far more telling.

And there was never a freaking cell phone joke or "modern" teenage internet humor in TSSM or EMH.

I agree with Dent on the cell phone line, it was lame and very USM-ish. It had that juvenlie 'insert humor here...' vibe that is so prevelant in the new Spidey series. Instead of engaging us with more organic humor, it takes away our enjoyment. The jokes bang us over the head with a giant clown mallet. Will give it a chance to prove me wrong.

That line seemed a little weird to me too but am willing to give it a chance, it the right context it may work (excited fan like behaviour around superheros can be funny, like the whole 'captain america fanboy' thing coulson had going on in the Avengers)

or it may not... agh want it to be time for the first episodes already so we can just find out!

Well that is inherent and goes without saying considering it's coming out of my mouth (or keyboard as it were). I'm speaking for me obviously, but seeing as a lot of people share the same opinion, it's a valid complaint.

It's an unfounded complaint because you haven't even watched the show. You don't know how the storyline is going to go.

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I'm pretty sure you yourself posted about Loeb saying he doesn't want continuous stories and believes one-shots are what work in cartoons earlier in this thread. Either way, it's well documented and has been brought up numerous times, I'm not about to scour google for the exact quote to prove a point to you.

That's not what he said. And once again you failed to produce actual proof or your point where you are twisting his words around.

Even Ultimate Spider-Man has recurring storylines and issues that carry over from one season to the next and one episode to the next. The first part of this season established the various members of the Sinister Six and culminated in the group coming together to go after Spider-Man as well as an ongoing story with The Lizard. So this idea that Ultimate Spider-Man has no serialized storylines that fans try to apply to the series is both false and wrong.

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No I'm not. I said it appears that way, that is not in any way condemning it. You being so sensitive about it is far more telling.

Know the fact that you are comparing the humor to both shows based off one line is telling. Despite Falcon's line being more in line with a lot of the humor and one-liners that were frequently exhibited throughout shows like Spectacular Spider-Man and Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes.

In fact, Wasp as a hero in Earth's Mightiest Heroes was constantly played as the comedy relief and spouting one-liners in whatever situation they are in.

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And there was never a freaking cell phone joke or "modern" teenage internet humor in TSSM or EMH.

In Earth's Mightiest Heroes, Spider-Man is so in awe of Captain America's words he's like, "Can I be your sidekick?"

After Captain America is thawed, many jokes were made out of Cap adjusting to modern society. He didn't get the technology Stark was using, he said something about a projectionist doing with the display. Thor made a joke about JARVIS talking. That was in line with Cap's character.

In this version Falcon is a new, younger hero and he's excited to be in the Avengers. So it's humor that comes out of his character.

In Earth's Mightiest Heroes, the Wasp enjoys being a hero and is excited about it and most of her lines are like 75% jokes.

After Captain America is thawed, many jokes were made out of Cap adjusting to modern society. He didn't get the technology Stark was using, he said something about a projectionist doing with the display. Thor made a joke about JARVIS talking. That was in line with Cap's character.

In this version Falcon is a new, younger hero and he's excited to be in the Avengers. So it's humor that comes out of his character.

In Earth's Mightiest Heroes, the Wasp enjoys being a hero and is excited about it and most of her lines are like 75% jokes.

These jokes were actually funny though. As you said, they were in character and felt organic and unforced. It wasn't humor for the sake of humor. The Falcon line comes across like the obnoxious USM humor that undercuts the moment just so the writer(s) can show us how hip or funny they are. It feels disingenuous. A kind of meta-humor in kindergarten form.

These jokes were actually funny though. As you said, they were in character and felt organic and unforced. It wasn't humor for the sake of humor. The Falcon line comes across like the obnoxious USM humor that undercuts the moment just so the writer(s) can show us how hip or funny they are. It feels disingenuous. A kind of meta-humor in kindergarten form.

Only a week until we find out for sure.

Once again that is your opinion. I've read many reactions who thought Wasp in Avengers was forced and obnoxious. All these are opinion.

I think Falcon's jokes are organic and not forced. He's a young rookie hero excited to be in the avengers.

Spider-Man asking to be a sidekick is arguably meta-humor in kindergarten form. A hero like Spider-Man asking Cap to be his sidekick.

Meh. It just looks like a marketing campaign for A2 with an under representation of women. The fact that there's one half a second shot of Widow really angers me.

Totally agree. I think the animation and designs look pretty good actually, but I'm annoyed that the team has to start from scratch basically. It took over a season to add Ms Marvel in EMH, who only brought the female count to 2. Black Widow, Maria Hill, and Hawkingbird played a role, but they weren't Avengers. Is it going to take that long again for the show to attempt to introduce more women to the team?

Looks like the same old boys club that is the Avengers in media outside of the comics.

It's an unfounded complaint because you haven't even watched the show. You don't know how the storyline is going to go.

I didn't say I know how the storylines will go. What I said and do know is that Loeb and Marvel Animation don't like multi-story arcs, think kids won't follow along with the story, and they don't want them in their cartoons. Thus, taking away the biggest thing that made TSSM and EMH great.

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That's not what he said. And once again you failed to produce actual proof or your point where you are twisting his words around.

No I'm not. He specifically said he and Marvel Animation don't want multi-story arcs in their cartoons and want the episodes to mostly feel completely stand alone so people can supposedly hop right into the show without needing to watch prior episodes. Again, this is well documented and you know this yourself, I'm not about to waste time trying to find the interview to prove something to you we all know is true, nor do I care enough about this to do so.

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Even Ultimate Spider-Man has recurring storylines and issues that carry over from one season to the next and one episode to the next. The first part of this season established the various members of the Sinister Six and culminated in the group coming together to go after Spider-Man as well as an ongoing story with The Lizard. So this idea that Ultimate Spider-Man has no serialized storylines that fans try to apply to the series is both false and wrong.

I don't watch season 2. I'm speaking from the experience of watching season 1 which was entirely one-shot episodes besides one or two episodes and the end with the Goblin fight. It was overall horrible and therefore I won't be watching season 2.

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Know the fact that you are comparing the humor to both shows based off one line is telling. Despite Falcon's line being more in line with a lot of the humor and one-liners that were frequently exhibited throughout shows like Spectacular Spider-Man and Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes.

You're again taking what I said and turning it up to level 10. Here is what I said V

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It doesn't help that the smart humor that both EMH and TSSM used, which also played a role in why they were so good, is completely antithetical to what has been shown in Ultimate Spider-Man and if that cellphone line from the trailer is any indication that won't be changing in Avengers Assemble.

This is not passing definitive judgement on the show, it's saying it appears to have the same dumb humor as Ultimate Spider-Man as the only thing we have to go off of is that stupid cellphone line. I already said in the post you quoted that I wasn't passing definitive judgement or condemning it so stop strawmanning what I said.

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In fact, Wasp as a hero in Earth's Mightiest Heroes was constantly played as the comedy relief and spouting one-liners in whatever situation they are in.

And they worked within the flow and context of the story, not random dumb internet humor.

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In Earth's Mightiest Heroes, Spider-Man is so in awe of Captain America's words he's like, "Can I be your sidekick?"

This has absolutely nothing to do with what I said and does not constitue as random dumb internet humor. Not to mention even if it did, it's one case out compared to the dozens in every episode of USM.

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After Captain America is thawed, many jokes were made out of Cap adjusting to modern society. He didn't get the technology Stark was using, he said something about a projectionist doing with the display. Thor made a joke about JARVIS talking. That was in line with Cap's character.

See above. You're stretching like hell and aren't even making sense. If you think those are the equivalent to the jokes told in USM with the chibi spider-men and near sitcom humor then you might want to take a class or two in forms of comedy or something.

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In this version Falcon is a new, younger hero and he's excited to be in the Avengers. So it's humor that comes out of his character.

That is not the problem. "Can you do that again so I can take a picture" in the middle of a mission dealing with HYDRA is the problem. It's not good or smart humor, it's just stupid and forced. There are better ways to go about making a joke using situational humor that conveys the same message without using internet humor to "connect" with the kids that are watching.

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In Earth's Mightiest Heroes, the Wasp enjoys being a hero and is excited about it and most of her lines are like 75% jokes.

Again, inherent joking is not the problem. TSSM had Spidey cracking jokes 95% of the time. But the difference is it was good, situational humor using skillful irony and sarcasm and never had to fallback on random internet jokes.

I just think you don't understand the difference between forms of humor.

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Originally Posted by Mad Ones

Totally agree. I think the animation and designs look pretty good actually, but I'm annoyed that the team has to start from scratch basically. It took over a season to add Ms Marvel in EMH, who only brought the female count to 2. Black Widow, Maria Hill, and Hawkingbird played a role, but they weren't Avengers. Is it going to take that long again for the show to attempt to introduce more women to the team?

Looks like the same old boys club that is the Avengers in media outside of the comics.

I hope they bring in Scarlet Witch now that we know she'll be in Avengers 2.

I'll be honest, it must be personal preference but I don't care for the designs or the animation for this over EMH or TSSM. Much like USM, I think the designs are bland and have no real visual flare. Nonetheless, I'll check this out when it airs, but like most my expectations are tempered.

Just saw the first episode on iTunes. It seemed kind of soulless. There was a bunch of action but none of it was engaging and neither were the characters. Kids will probably like it but I just didn't find it fun or witty. Just another cartoon.

This seems to be the more active Thread, so I'll just re-post my opinion here.

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Originally Posted by Nathan

Alright, watched it. I hate Ultimate Spider-Man. I hate the fact that Man of Action took over and treat the entire audience as if they had adhd. But this was ok. The whole Episode was kinda flash over substance, but it's by far not as terrible as Ultimate Spider-Man. Not even close. I can actually see myself catching a couple Episodes more, and hope that they'll be able to deliver some story heavy ones. If everything happens to be exactly just like the Pilot though, it will still be a good cartoon. Good, but not great.

I guess I don't judge it as harsh, because I expected something much, much worse. I'll keep watching, but if it doesn't eventually gain more substance, I probably quit the show before the season ends.

One of the highlights were Thor and Hulk's rivalry being shown in full force, it's usually just hinted at. I love when Hulk and Thor fought in mid-air and fell to the ground, it seemed like they were having a blast.

Actually that was probably the most equal I've ever seen Thor and Hulk portrayed outside of the comics.