Would indoctrinated kids be able to grasp the fundamentals of math and science in school if they weren't limited by religious beliefs? - Think Atheist2015-08-02T18:50:24Zhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/forum/topics/would-indoctrinated-kids-be-able-to-grasp-the-fundamentals-of?commentId=1982180%3AComment%3A1099850&xg_source=activity&feed=yes&xn_auth=noA friend of mine who is a ret…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2012-04-15:1982180:Comment:11001332012-04-15T02:42:20.538ZEric Diazhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/EricDiaz
<p>A friend of mine who is a retired calculus professor is also a young earth creationist...so maybe is not such a big distraction.....maybe the only reason the subjects started coming easier to you once you became atheist is because you develop more interest in them.</p>
<p>A friend of mine who is a retired calculus professor is also a young earth creationist...so maybe is not such a big distraction.....maybe the only reason the subjects started coming easier to you once you became atheist is because you develop more interest in them.</p> When I was in school, I notic…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2012-04-14:1982180:Comment:11003152012-04-14T23:59:45.896ZStevehttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Steve704
<p>When I was in school, I noticed that most people were either good at maths or languages, but not both. That doesn't mean that the ones were good at languages necessarily sucked at maths, but it wasn't intuitive for them</p>
<p>When I was in school, I noticed that most people were either good at maths or languages, but not both. That doesn't mean that the ones were good at languages necessarily sucked at maths, but it wasn't intuitive for them</p> Religion fogs up the mind and…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2012-04-14:1982180:Comment:11001022012-04-14T23:48:29.782ZReg The Fronkey Farmerhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/RegPerry
<p>Religion fogs up the mind and stunts the development of critical thinking. Viewing the world from a “goddidit” perspective removes the need to sharpen that skill as the more important questions that should be analyzed already have the answers provided. Young minds that are naturally inquisitive should be encouraged to develop their thinking skills and should not be lied to. Religion your time is up, you are no longer required, get off the stage.</p>
<p>Religion fogs up the mind and stunts the development of critical thinking. Viewing the world from a “goddidit” perspective removes the need to sharpen that skill as the more important questions that should be analyzed already have the answers provided. Young minds that are naturally inquisitive should be encouraged to develop their thinking skills and should not be lied to. Religion your time is up, you are no longer required, get off the stage.</p> I don't think so. People tend…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2012-04-14:1982180:Comment:11000972012-04-14T22:24:30.843ZTomhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Tom342
<p>I don't think so. People tend to have the ability to compartmentalise extremely well, especially with abstract concepts like religion. Therefore, I think that if religious students want to learn maths and science, they will be able to do so to the fullness of their potential; it is easy to put your religious beliefs safely to the side and treat all those things that might contradict them independently--professors/scientists/intellectuals do it all the time.</p>
<p>I do think, however, that…</p>
<p>I don't think so. People tend to have the ability to compartmentalise extremely well, especially with abstract concepts like religion. Therefore, I think that if religious students want to learn maths and science, they will be able to do so to the fullness of their potential; it is easy to put your religious beliefs safely to the side and treat all those things that might contradict them independently--professors/scientists/intellectuals do it all the time.</p>
<p>I do think, however, that you touch on the important point of whether religious people will be willing to even consider maths and the sciences in the first place. There is a powerful anti-intellectual strain within general religious thought, so even if the potential of children/adults is not diminished by religious belief, the first step into the intellectual world necessary to exploit this potential might never be made.</p>
<p>Ultimately, I think it is more about the willingness, rather than the potential. The latter tends to be preserved--in my experience--by the ability to compartmentalise. </p> Hi James
It's sad that you ha…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2012-04-14:1982180:Comment:10997592012-04-14T11:40:26.951ZJon van Rooyenhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/JonvanRooyen
<p>Hi James</p>
<p>It's sad that you had to conduct your explorations of the natural world in secret. In my view it is not just a fun thing to do, but it is absolutely necessary if we has an intelligent species are to progress in various fields of our knowledge.</p>
<p>Science, coupled with maths, has provided us with so many wonderful and some dangerous but extremely useful discoveries if utilised responsibly.</p>
<p>I would agree with Madeleine's response later in this discussion that having…</p>
<p>Hi James</p>
<p>It's sad that you had to conduct your explorations of the natural world in secret. In my view it is not just a fun thing to do, but it is absolutely necessary if we has an intelligent species are to progress in various fields of our knowledge.</p>
<p>Science, coupled with maths, has provided us with so many wonderful and some dangerous but extremely useful discoveries if utilised responsibly.</p>
<p>I would agree with Madeleine's response later in this discussion that having been indoctrinated into a religion so that it become part of one's core belief and worldview will colour and inform (I say distort, rather) one's worldview and can have an impact on one's openness to learn important facts about our world that are based on observations and evidence.</p>
<p>I find it rather ironic that, provided my supposition is true, the indoctrinated will reject evidence based fact in favour of superstition. But therein lies our atheistic conundrum. :)</p>
<p>Richard Dawkins said, when asked on a talkshow if he believed religion should be completely removed from eduction, that he thinks it would be a bad thing if that happened as it is a large part of human history and to understand where we are today requires that we understand our past. I suppose it would be a matter of contextualising religious studies better as we have done with Greek mythology.</p> EXACTLY RIGHT!
tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2012-04-14:1982180:Comment:10999412012-04-14T11:25:10.139ZMadeleine Loysonhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/MadeleineLoyson
<p>EXACTLY RIGHT!</p>
<p></p>
<p>EXACTLY RIGHT!</p>
<p></p> Religion colours and informs…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2012-04-14:1982180:Comment:10998622012-04-14T11:23:48.822ZMadeleine Loysonhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/MadeleineLoyson
<p>Religion colours and informs one's world view and how you respond to intellectual challenges. If you are brought up Christian (and I suppose the same could be said for most religions) that worldview colours your perception and inhibits absolutely impartial and critical analysis of information before you e.g. God made man therefore the theory of evolution is wrong.It especially upsets me to see intelligent children aged between four and seven (when their natural curiousity about the world…</p>
<p>Religion colours and informs one's world view and how you respond to intellectual challenges. If you are brought up Christian (and I suppose the same could be said for most religions) that worldview colours your perception and inhibits absolutely impartial and critical analysis of information before you e.g. God made man therefore the theory of evolution is wrong.It especially upsets me to see intelligent children aged between four and seven (when their natural curiousity about the world around them is at a peak) are totally indoctrinated by their religious parents and encumbered with a world view which will block their ability to critically analyze and think scientifically in their formative years during which a love of science should be inculcated.</p>
<p></p> It's certainly not innate to…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2012-04-14:1982180:Comment:10997512012-04-14T10:08:49.713ZHelen Pluckrosehttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/HelenPluckrose
<p>It's certainly not innate to me! I am a British atheist raised by atheist, liberal, academic parents who encouraged critical thinking, sent me to a private school and had me tutored at home in maths. I recieved excellent grades in English language, English literature, Latin, French, history and religious education whilst failing all sciences and requiring extensive tutoring in maths to scrape a passing grade.</p>
<p>I am quite sure that children of fundamentalists who teach them that…</p>
<p>It's certainly not innate to me! I am a British atheist raised by atheist, liberal, academic parents who encouraged critical thinking, sent me to a private school and had me tutored at home in maths. I recieved excellent grades in English language, English literature, Latin, French, history and religious education whilst failing all sciences and requiring extensive tutoring in maths to scrape a passing grade.</p>
<p>I am quite sure that children of fundamentalists who teach them that evolution etc is the devil's lie will not be at all receptive to biological science but am not sure why maths would be an issue. It would be hard to interpret any studies on atheism and analytical ability because people who tend to be analytical also tend to be atheist because religious belief cannot be understood logically - chicken and egg.</p>
<p>Could this be related to your brain dominance? Analytical and purely logical thought live in the left brain - men usually use their left brain dominantly and therefore we find more men in engineering, hard science, economics etc. Empathy, communication, philosophical and abstract thought live in the right brain and women tend to use both sides equally so we find more women in the social fields - nursing, social work, teaching and recently, medicine. Of course there are plenty of examples of analytical women and empathetic men and I wonder if you are one of that minority of men who do not favour the left brain and that your recent surge of interest and aptitude for maths and science are because you are directing your studies yourself and doing so the way that works for you.I have recently become very interested in evolution and neurology and by reading about these in books aimed at educating the lay person - eg - The Greatest Show on Earth which explains with visual imagery and in the form of a narrative - my right brain dominance appreciates this. I also enjoy logic puzzles like sodoku and nonograms even tho I do not find them easy. You have probably considered this but if not - here is where you test your brain dominance.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.web-us.com/brain/braindominance.htm" target="_blank">http://www.web-us.com/brain/braindominance.htm</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.ehow.com/how_2172882_tell-leftbrained-rightbrained.html" target="_blank">http://www.ehow.com/how_2172882_tell-leftbrained-rightbrained.html</a></p>
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<p></p> "If they weren't limited by r…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2012-04-14:1982180:Comment:10998512012-04-14T09:36:06.597ZJon van Rooyenhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/JonvanRooyen
<p>"<span>If they weren't limited by religious beliefs, would they still be indoctrinated?"</span></p>
<p><span>Perhaps not. I guess they would have the clarity of mind then to succeed. :)</span></p>
<p><span>"<span>What parts of religion conflict with math?"</span></span></p>
<p><span><span>It's not so much about the religions conflicting with math, it's just that math is a hugely important subject necessary to grasp scientific principles. I guess my question doesn't really apply as much to…</span></span></p>
<p>"<span>If they weren't limited by religious beliefs, would they still be indoctrinated?"</span></p>
<p><span>Perhaps not. I guess they would have the clarity of mind then to succeed. :)</span></p>
<p><span>"<span>What parts of religion conflict with math?"</span></span></p>
<p><span><span>It's not so much about the religions conflicting with math, it's just that math is a hugely important subject necessary to grasp scientific principles. I guess my question doesn't really apply as much to math as it does to science. For me, personally, I think the two go hand in hand though.</span></span></p> Certainly some interesting re…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2012-04-14:1982180:Comment:10998502012-04-14T09:33:09.859ZJon van Rooyenhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/JonvanRooyen
<p>Certainly some interesting responses here.</p>
<p>I guess the question is not as simple as the one I put forward.</p>
<p>I would agree that a person's ability to learn something is largely dependent on the individual's desire to learn it, but I think that is the exact place I'm coming from.</p>
<p>At school, I don't think I was too unintelligent for these subjects, I was simply bored with trying to consolidate biblical "fact" from what I learn't in school. I was too afraid for my mortal soul…</p>
<p>Certainly some interesting responses here.</p>
<p>I guess the question is not as simple as the one I put forward.</p>
<p>I would agree that a person's ability to learn something is largely dependent on the individual's desire to learn it, but I think that is the exact place I'm coming from.</p>
<p>At school, I don't think I was too unintelligent for these subjects, I was simply bored with trying to consolidate biblical "fact" from what I learn't in school. I was too afraid for my mortal soul to let go of my religious beliefs.</p>
<p>I guess my point is that yes, while the ability to excel at a subject like science and maths is up to the student, it certainly doesn't help having attachment to ideologies which conflict with the principles that student would need to grasp if they were to excel at these subjects.</p>