Ownpool-I was aware then, but usually those lawsuits have unintended consequences weakening the deputies ability to enforce the current law so the commissioners just pass more onorous laws which also get disregarded. We were in the wrong place (Pinellas County beach) at the wrong time, (when they decided to raid) and some lawmen get too enthusiastic and make stupid mistakes. They likely encounter dangerous people occasionally too. Far more dangerous than thongers.I blame the elected sheriff who sends them out to a beach in a group acting like a swat team. Maybe it was a slow day writing traffic tickets.

Guess I'm not enough of a politition to start pursuing the lofty goal of reforming society. We just want to enjoy the beach and sun and hope the over zealous deputies use some of that spirit when they catch real bad guys.

I am looking forward to some time to thong at ft. desoto next week. There haven't been any comments lately so...I am wondering if the heavy rains lately have made it difficult to access the north beach. And second question...I know thonging is north of the fort, but how far north? I will probably get there mid morning on a week day and there may not be many other thongers out yet.

Heavy rains my not be the only cause of the access problems, right now we are having spring high tides so the sea level at the top of the high tides has been much higher than normal. This affects ground water and drainage along coastal lands. That combined with global warming has been causing flooded streets at high tide all along Las Olas in Fort Lauderdale. The high tides this weekend are some of the highest spring tides for the year.

If your going out it is easier to not park all the way at the end, find a place towards the middle more, when you get to the beach you will have to walk a bit farther but getting to the beach is easier. By easier i mean, dry not flooded, and a lot less misquitoes. We have some nice weather today but left early to catch some football. Saw some single guys and a some couples. Nice relaxing day.

Was able to enjoy "Ft. Thong Beach" today from 10 am to 12:45 and then had to leave. It was so perfect. Parking about 200 yards south of the roped area let me cross the dunes dry. People parking up near the roped area were encountering water. Saaw only a few thongers, but I was early. It was so ideal, I may go back tomorrow, but I will again have to go early like today. Nothing wrong with that though.

Beachfolks- Looks like you will get one of your wishes. 15 rangers in Pinellas County are being let go due to budget cuts. Ft. Desoto will now have the fishing pier close at 11pm instead of staying open all night and the night ranger has been eliminated. Half of the bathrooms will be closed during the week and some parks will now have rangers that drive between them. So patrols should slow down. Watch the perverted sexual activity come back now and we will end up jhaving a large section of the beach made into a preservation area because of a chosen few. Sad but will be true.

Pinellas County bcc and staff had been spending like drunken sailors and living artificially high off increased funding brought in by the inflation of property valuations. These cuts are only getting back to the real world. I'm impressed by director/Mr.Cozzie's 2009 management actions to cut back the park budgets. Most of the changes will not seriously affect the park patrons. The 15 rangers lost are out of several hundred-you won't know the difference. The worst effect is job loss to the workers themselves who have our sympathy.

Took a few hours on Friday and went out to the Fort. It had been sometime since my last visit even thou I only live 20 minutes away. Life gets in the way of the thing you love to do. First thing is I could not believe the grass or I should say weeds as you enter the park. It appears the at mowing has not taken place in several months. I also noticed the trash cans were full or nearly full on a Friday afternoon which tells me that even the trash pickup has been cut back. I spent 3 hours at the beach soaking up some summer time rays, the sun was still intense. The water is still nice and warm and the tan continues to glow.

MODERATED POST: This is the edited post of a new user who just joined today and started out with a series of personal attacks. I have removed the sections with personal Ad Hominem attacks. JM

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After reading the posts on Ft. Desoto beach I come to some common sense intelligent recommendations.

First off, if there was a problem and I do not know if there is/was a problem or not but what ever problem there was or was people should have gone straight to the authorities, the park rangers and/or the Sheriff's Department and not come on here to tip off anyone off doing any illegal behavior out there.

Secondly, what ever problem existed out there, if there was indeed a problem it was only made worst by it being broadcast on here to the world.

Common sense would have said that if anyone thinks there is a problem to simply go directly to the rangers and/or the sheriff and so as not to tip off any illegal violators, and so as not to bring other perverts out there that would have never come be for reading about it on here.

I am sure the park rangers read this forum and I bet they are very pleased that xxxxxxx has made their job not only harder because his posts have brought perverts out there that would have never know about it. And now makes it look like the park rangers are not doing their job. I bet next time they see xxxxxx out there they will be so glad to see him they will hug him.

You should not have to worry about perverts at any beach or pool setting for that matter. Does not matter whether you bring attention on here or to the rangers. The reality is people should have self control and restrain themselves from that type of activity. Should anybody be allowed to have sexual relations or activity of any sort at any public forum? The answer should be no.

People need to understand that just being nude is not sexual in nature and is actually legal under the Florida State statutes, although not in most counties as they have the right to toughen the local laws. But when you bring sexual arousal and sexual activity into the situation really changes.

If you are one of those that thinks they should be able to have sex any where at anytime, please by all means go to Disney and drop the pants on Main Street. I understand I cannot wear a thong to Disney and would not attempt it. This attack on people that just want the sexual activity to stop is unreal. Enjoy the beach for the fresh air and freedom to be nearly nude. Enjoy your home or private parties for your sexual activity.

>> but what ever problem there was or was people should have gone straight to the authorities

Hmmm... would have been redundant. The authorities knew. That's why the "no nudity signs went up. That's why certain areas of the park beacame subject to much more patrol activity than others. That's why they made a special effort to ban some people.

Some people on the board expressed the attitude that what they were doing should be ignored by the authorities, that authorities should be paying attention to real crime instead of what they were doing, and that they intended not to alter their behavior despite pressure from authorities. It was reasonable to conclude in such a situation that whatever influence other thongers could exert on those not complying with behaviorial norms would be helpful.

>>what ever problem existed out there, if there was indeed a problem it was only made worst by it being broadcast on >>here to the world.

I do not know if discussion here has attracted people inclined to inappropriate behavior. I can say that it appears some people have modified their behavior to be more appropriate. I can also observe that after a huge amount of attention, the proposed anti thong rule has been put on the back burner. Perhaps authorities have decided there has been an improvement in behavior and their patrols and bans of people have been adequate to solve the problems. They may even be congratulating themselves on their apparent success. If anyone altered his behavior, it is not possible to determine if it was the result of actions of authorities, things posted to this board, the possibility of thongs being banned, or some combination of these factors.

>>I am sure the park rangers read this forum and I bet they are very pleased that xxxxxxx has made their job not only >>harder because his posts have brought perverts out there that would have never know about it.

This is an unsupportable statement for several reasons. Its unknown whether new people inclined to behave inappropriately have been attracted to the Fort by reading the baords. Its unknown whether authorities consider their job is easier or harder than it was earlier. However, it might be concluded from the fact the thong ban proposal has been on the back burner for months that authorities consider the situation has improved.

>>And now makes it look like the park rangers are not doing their job.

Well, again, you can't know what these people think, just like you can't know why people may have altered their behavior. It may be the authorities have decided they've done a great job.

My take on it as a frequent thonger is that there have been several problems. First some over the top sexuality in remote locations(which can be avoided or ignored) but some choose to complain. The bad actors are percieved to be those wearing thongs and G's who populate the same beach area and also generate complaints for wearing small swimsuits. Then, there are some excess rangers who are not law enforcement pros, but wannabee and had time to be. Add into the mix is birders who fill up the entire Pinellas county boards and staff and want to take over the entire park system "for the birds and for nature" and get rid of those pesky people who do not want to be confined to the designated picnic area.

The 2008 attempt to write a prohibitive swimsuit coverage ordinance in seclusion and modeled after the pinellas ordinance for strip bars was met early with lots of negative fallout from the public and media, add real big Pinellas county budgetary problems, so we won't see a rerun of the swimsuit coverage attempt for a while. Staff is too busy and under manned (as it should be) to take on another problem, Most of the bad actors left the beach early in the game, so the coverage problem is also percieved as less.

Some people keep saying issues should be taken straight to the authorities. Mostly they are being called by the people that walk up and down the beach. The problem comes from the authorities actually needing to see the act. They do come down and talk with people about issues.

A lot of people tell me that at Playalinda the people of ask them to quit first and then if it continues they call the authorities. They try and limit the amount of calls to the authority so as not to have a log of calls. A long log of calls just fuels the fires of management to close down the beach areas. Then they have a log of all the calls to show and use as evidience to gain support to close the areas down.

If you read the Casperson thread you will see where strange activity is occurring there and that people have reported the activities. You have those type of activities going on at plenty of parks. Lettuce Lake in the Tampa area for one, where they have undercover cops all the time out there stopping sexual activity. Look at the arrest of semi famous people for sexual activity in public bathrooms. I am sure the stuff goes on in the bathrooms at Ft. Desoto. But it is out of plain site and probably behind a closed stall door.

It is not just Ft. Desoto and this thread did not bring it to the rangers attention. They have been fighting the sexual activity at parks for years. I think that is one of the reasons they have fought a nude or topless beach.

I say open a section for at least topless sunbathing and put a Lifeguard in the middle of it. Then after a few years, if that is going fine, then try it as a clothing optional area. Keep the Lifeguards there and charge an extra couple of bucks to be in that area. I would love that to happen. The Lifeguards would stop the sexual activity and the topless section would definitely increase the number of people on the beach.

>>First some over the top sexuality in remote locations(which can be avoided or ignored) but some choose to complain.

Why should people be expected to ignore illegal activity in non private easily accessed public places even if somewhat remote?

>>You have those type of activities going on at plenty of parks.

I"m sorry... the old "if everyone is jumping off bridges it must be OK" argument. Sorry. No dice.

>>The bad actors are percieved to be those wearing thongs and G's who populate the same beach area and also generate complaints for wearing small swimsuits.

Uh, no. Some of those you describe generated their own ill will through their "look at me" actions.

>>Then, there are some excess rangers who are not law enforcement pros, but wannabee

Here we go. Its mostly the fault of the rangers who have to respond to complaints....

>>Add into the mix is birders who fill up the entire Pinellas county boards and staff and want to take over the entire park system

... except, of course, those bird lovers who are at fault for the rest. Yea, I remember 15 years ago the militia folks claiming there was a communist army in Canada ready to storm across the border at any moment, and of course, some would have had us believe there was a terrorist behind every tree. Sound like the same sort of irrational fear to me.

>>The 2008 attempt to write a prohibitive swimsuit coverage ordinance in seclusion... was met early with lots of negative fallout from the public and media,

Correct. I consider it very fortunate that the vast majority of people were basing their opinions on their experiences at beaches other than the Fort, because, overall, the number of people who go to other beaches far outnumber those who go to the Fort. Had some of the activity at the Fort been common at most beaches, I think a different outcome could reasonably be predicted.

Clearly, the stand taken by the SP Times had a huge effect. And yet, as with most of the public, I think they probably were mostly aware of non Fort type activities.

Reminder: thongers dodged the bullet.

Outside of the last part of the above post, the rest uses the techniques of deflecting discussion from the topic to allegations of improper motivation, moral deficiency, and self serving conspiracy on the part of the opponents. This is right out of the playbook of AM Hate Talk Radio, which, I think, has been seen to impress only the unsophisticated and uninformed who want to believe. I suggest a different approach will be more effective.

MODERATOR NOTE: Some of the posts, or part of the post, that were either personal attacks or more generally about politics and not the beach have been removed. It is important to understand the difference between a critique of someone’s argument or position, and Ad Hominem attack that attacks the person.

We are all interested in keeping a good beach where thonging is not only allowed but common. In the discussion it appears that we agree on the basic aims of preserving the beach but people are coming at it from a couple of distinct positions regarding regulation of good behavior.

Some people believe that the future success of the beach depends on curtailing illegal or obnoxious sexual behavior. They think that the model we should adopt is that of individual citizens being part of a community who are ready to address the problems when they appear. I suppose you could consider this based on the American “well regulated militia” tradition, in that it is the individual citizens who need to be an alert and active deterrent, and who will individually have the courage to stand up and confront the problem, or the people who are a problem. Some might consider this rather communist for it’s collective approach to social modification: In that all members of the community are expected to serve as the eyes and ears of the society, be personally involved in curbing obnoxious behavior and be active in reporting any serious violations to the authorities.

Others may approach this from the Libertarian point of view, in that they believe in the right for an individual to the “pursuit of happiness” and that right triumphs other people who are not harmed but just disapprove. Therefore people who see things they don’t like should just look the other way or go away. The right to “life, liberty” and unfettered personal freedom. People of liberal persuasion may see this as selfish anti-social behavior which threatens all by the recklessness or lack of consideration of a few.

In our case the people supporting both positions do share common ground in that both wish to keep the County imposing more regulations that might curtail the ability for people to wear a thong.

In pursuit of common ground, maybe we can take a lesson from the South Florida Fee Beaches (http://sffb.com/) . A group of people who put aside their differences and formed a common alliance, not to fight the government, but to work with the city and county on achieving their goal of a nude beach. In doing that they first came together to draft a set of clear written goals and principles for their organization based on their common ground. A bit like a declaration, constitution and goals, then work out a practical way to get them done. In the formulation of goals and the organization it was important for them to build a wide and strong group of local citizens so that it was not seen a fringe loony group, or meddling outsiders, but a real local organization with broad support in the community.

I think one of the reasons for the success at Haulover is their observation that police and park rangers often lacked tact and were seen by some people to be heavy handed. They realized that to make their dreams work ordinary citizens were needed to take on the unpaid roll of ‘Beach Ambassadors’. People prepared to wear the hat of authority, quite literally a distinctive sun hat, who would approach people doing inappropriate or obnoxious things and ask them to curtail the behavior. One of the reasons people accepted the authority of the Ambassadors was they followed the clear guidelines and enforced social rules that SFFB had worked out. Rules that were in line with the principles and goals of the organization as a whole, and there working agreements with their other partners. That and the park rangers and police would back them up in a hart beat.

In the early days a few people caused problems, but if they did not modify their behavior after being confronted by the citizen volunteer ‘Beach Ambassadors’ the rangers and police took care of them. There are still some problems from users who are not regulars but the users of the beach, guided by the beach user organization, have developed a community standard and code of conduct that works.

The users of Fort DeSoto do not have to adopt the SFFB principles and methods, they are just an example of what can work, if people find common ground on which to work towards common goals. It is possible to work towards a common goal with people you politically disagree with.

If you have been watching the series of programs on PBS about the founding and evolution of the National Parks you will have seen examples of people of diffrent political perspectives, and of diffrent goals, like birders and hunters, coming together to preserve and protect the open spaces of this nation. Even if you come from diffrent ends of the political spectrum it is more productive to find common ground on what you do agree on than to amplify what you don't. The series also teaches us that in preserving the space for the common good we curbed the individual property rights, hunting, and activities of some, but the overall outcome, parks both preserved yet open to everyone, was in the end an embodiment of the true American ideal.

On a positive note for Ft. Desoto. We were able to get today for a couple of hours. It was beautiful. By noon there was a good mix of singles and couples in thongs along the beach. Everybody was waving and saying Hello. Just a couple people walking the beach. Still a few sting rays in the water so be careful. Guys came down and did trash duty then the ranger came down about an hour later. Both waved to people and went about their business at hand. We may all have to volunteer to cut grass along the entry road before long. Not sure what is up with that right now. Saw some new people and some of the old regulars out there.

Today reminded us of how it was about 3 years ago there. It does not get any better than it was today. The most relaxing and enjoyable time you can have was had today by us at Ft. Desoto. So for good or bad this board has helped the situation and I must say Thanks to everyone for helping. Let's keep this wonderfull spot just like it was today. If you were out please comment.

They have put some dirt out on the beach side of the road. That is to eliminate that 6 inch dropoff that was there. Hopefully it will pack down soon so we won't be carrying it home every time we go.

Well another afternoon at the Fort yesterday, you would have thought it was July, it was hot and the water is still very warm. The sun rays were intense and the tan lines are in true summer fashion. I took in about 4 hours yesterday, not many people out just a few, I stayed to the southern end of the fence line and will probably be back today. I did notice later in the afternoon more guys walking to the north end of the beach, just wish more ladies would use this beach, need more sand dunes or mountains in the sun.

Ski-you were there the wrong day. We have been at DeSoto beach every day since 1oct. Yes, men are the majority of thongers, but plenty of couples, women and even some single women thongers and also topless and nude sunning on the beach N. of the Fort. The beach was quite full of thongers-mostly couples-on the weekend. Nice, but very hot though-like summer.

Since I kind of fell in love with Ft. DeSoto Beach, I really appreciate all comments about that site. So I will try to add my comments from time to time.

I have been able to make several visits to the fort for thonging in the last few weeks, but my wife has been out of town. So I have been looking forward with much anticipation to her first visit there with me. We are blessed with a clothing optional house, yard, and pool, so we thong at home all the time. But she had never thonged at the beach. I knew she would like it, but she was a bit shy, which is normal I guess. She wore a little bikini cover up over her g string. I knew enough not to pressure her, but we weren't there 5 minutes til she slipped off her cover up. We are older now, but she was a swim suit model when younger and works out and watches her diet so still looks hot. We enjoyed the day so much that we stayed too long and got too much sun, so may not get back for a few days. This was last Friday. It was hot, but a nice breeze made it pleasant. Just a few thongers but included a couple, and 2 single women. What a delight the place is. We hope it lasts forever! We look forward to a weekend visit when there are more couples present.

Here's a question for ya. Especially you regulars (and I hope to be considered a regular soon). We thongers park on the grass and walk across the dunes to get to an area where we can thong. I understand that. But why do families including children in traditional swimwear park there and trek through the dunes to get to the beach when they can drive up to North Beach and have amenities like rest rooms and easy parking.

I really don't mind. The people I have seen were not near enough to bother me and they were well behaved. I just wonder why they go to the trouble to come to that area. I must be missing something.

Hy-We don't think just thongers are the only people who want to avoid structured, over crowded beaches. (like a Cony Island beach). That is why we thongers were so insensed when Pinellas County denied access to so much of DeSoto Park "for the birds nesting ground"-in addition to Shell Island, and other islands in the chain above DeSoto.We feel that open space was stolen by the avid birders who populated meetings no one else knew about and voted to close the space to beachgoers.

The wife and I took the day off Friday and had a great time at the fort. The weather was unbelievable with basically no humidity. We were plesantly surprised to see soo many thongers there on a week day. Probably at least 18 singles and 4 other thong couples including ourselves. As we were walking out to our car my wife even said that it had to be the first time that the thongers outnumbered the regulars down the beach. This is the type of weather that makes me happy I live in Fla. Thonging in late October, what could be better?

We are now optimistic that Pinellas will allow thongers to use the remaining space at DeSoto with less hassle. The half-mile strip of beach in front of the bird area reopened last spring with no walk-thru allowed signs from the kiddie beach. Apparently with staffing changes, the ranger staff has also changed for the better. Several regulars including ourselves have had pleasant conversations with the newer rangers recently indicating they are OK with thonging and even nude sunning out beyond the area frequented by the general public.

We hope the problem can eventually be resolved by allowing beachgoers access to more (and more remote) space.

So beachfolks, does this mean we can thong and be nude by the northbeach concession area, the socalled family area? And like I said I am about rules, so a sign saying that you might encounter nude sunbathing, like the signs in the the socalled thong area, which says no nude sunbathing?

288988-No, and Pigs don't fly either. They are OK with thonging and possibly some discreet nudity out beyond the area frequented by the general public. We are talking about 1/2-3/4 mile away from any allowed entrance to the general public areas, although not far from North beach through prohibited treed area and bird nesting space. I'm discussing micro-thongs and swimsuits where there is some debate
regarding the amount of coverage legally required.

Thong swimwear with indisputably
legal coverage is still OK all over the beach at Fort De Soto, even the family beach,
and is still being worn by some beach goers most days.

We also understand long term DeSoto administrator and avid birder Bob Browning has retired, although somehow still associated with the park. Mr. Browning was in the local news recently officiating when a dead whale was autopsied and buried at DeSoto park. There is obviously a change of park administration.

If you think nudity should be allowed in the park you should present this to the BCC.

288988 - PLEASE go back and read all the previous pages in BOTH of the Fort De Soto threads. You may be relatively new to the board but you have been a member for at lest three months os you don't have an excuse for not reading what has been previously posted in this, and the other Fort De Soto thread. The subject has been worked to death. The discussion of what is an is not allowed, and where it is allowed, and what the politics are, and that changes may or may not take place, and what signs might be useful, and what level of nudity is against the law has been thoroughly discussed in these threads by the regulars users of the beach.

You say you are for rules, well the rules are simple. It is a county park, so nudity is against the rules and the law, and no you can't hang out nude at the consession or family family area. If the park rangers catch you walking around nude you stand a very good chance of a ticket or even a trip to the local jail.

I am not new to this cause. JM What I am trying to convey is who considers the concession area as a family section? Thats just what has been the case evolving over time. And I do not have to be nude, I am content to wear a appropriate thong in the family section, I just want the fathers and family to accept us, and not comment to put your clothes back on.

288-I repeat--Thong swimwear with indisputably
legal coverage is still OK all over the beaches at Fort De Soto, even the family beaches,
and is still being worn by some beach goers most days. You will not be in the majority of beachgoers.

Unfortunately, there have been some past instances of uneven and unfair enforcement of the coverage ordinances by park rangers. The problem seems to have been the divergence of the opinions of a large and apparently untrained cadre of rangers formerly under Mr.Browning (now retired). Whether those problems will re-occurr is worrysome but currently does not seem to be occurring.

Most on this board feel that thongers should integrate into the beach population for better acceptance rather than escape to the more acceptant populations in the far reaches of the park where the micro-small swimsuits to topless and nude are tolerated.

Beachfolks thats exactly what I want. Like you said the rangers were not consistant on the rules. What I am wanting, is if I am walking in my thong in the family area, and some bozo says put your clothes back on, that I could go to a ranger, or lifeguard, and make them talk to them, rather than me cussing back,

288-There are no lifeguards at DeSoto. Ranger comes around several times per day at the Fort and North-maybe more in the central family beach area. You are better off ignoring any hecklers.

Yes, report them if the heckler becomes obnoxious-Quite recently the park ranger(s) we and others have spoken to at DeSoto have been reasonable, articulate, and probably pursuasive to any hecklers. I am very puzzled about the big change-where have they been keeping these guys?

You can also call 911 for the Pinellas county sheriff deputy who has always been reasonable.

Beachfolks I no there are not lifeguards there after Labor Day, but I was on the east beach in june july, and they were there, and some people selling the umbrellas. I must not be in the right place, but I have thonged in that section by the pier, with no hassle, but like you said, we need more thongers to come to concession area, and those locals, as you no the tide farther down sometimes makes the other area very small.

Hi-We arrived in the thong area north of the fort about 2PM also several thonging couples and half dozen single guys-all stayed late-We left at 6PM and the beach was still populated. Great beaching day again.

A park Ranger stopped to tell us they were now reducing the bird area slightly, creating a new beach entrance just a bit North of the current path. He drove through in a 4wd to blaze a trail. Informs that Bob Brownings replacement is at work Jim W.(something).

The agenda for the Nov 3 Pinellas bcc meeting again has no items regarding new regulations of swimsuit coverage at the county parks. Has this potential problem disappeared or just awaiting a better time to drop??

Now is the time for all of us to show the Park staff that we are good people. We need not stir old wounds or make new blisters now. If they are going to leave us alone as long as we self police and are respectful to passerbys then we need to honor that code.

288- Have no idea who you are but feel you want to flaunt your thong in front of other people. I am for the freedom to wear a thong anywhere but sometimes special areas are okay. Just like Haulover or South Beach. There are areas where you can be nude or topless and there are areas you cannot. If you want to run solo and irritate the family folks that do not expect to see or do not want to see someone in a thong then go ahead. Yes they could go to a State Park beach and not see a thong but they decided they wanted to come to one of the best beaches in the world as well. So let's all get a long. They seperated smokers for a long time away from non smokers.

Beachfolks- Glad to see you are chatting with the ranger staff. Things have gottena lot better the last year. They just ask that we keep it respectful and at one end.

Buzz-Even better, the rangers are coming over and chatting with us when they come around. Seems to be a friendly and better crew. Maybe they rotated the jobs-????

288 won't be totally alone wearing a thong on the main beaches at DeSoto. You can see a few thongers/string suits both male and female at the fort beach and at North beach most every day, but usually only 1 or 2 are present. Friends tell us there are still occasional thongers all the way north at the north island also, but the beaches have eroded badly right up to the bird space so are narrow. We do not go to South beach or east beach so have no recent knowledge there. The thongs worn at the family beaches tend to have more coverage though.

288--- Very windy but good sun today so we tried the west end of the dog beach south of the fort. OK, but too many flies and bugs, so midday we moved to the "nourished beach" area in front of the fort by the old gun emplacement taking an open space along the beach. I wore an XS Skinz Roman which has a string back, but should adequately meet the Pinellas requirements. The beach population was light, but we received no negative comment, looks, or notice whatever from the other beachgoers.

The Pinellas bcc aganda for Nov 17 shows no swimsuit coverage regulations being discussed. Park re-zoning will be discussed to make new parks which have existing requirements more open for park development.

If you thought the cutbacks were bad this year just wait until this next budget session. It may be that the parks are closed 2 to 3 days per week. You should start seeing hints of that as they start talking about the shortfalls coming up this next year.

Wather has been beautiful. Wish we could get out and enjoy but other obligations right now.

I would be willing to pay a small fee at the fort. Either more at the booth at tierra verde, or some kind of season pass. Just want some of the powers to be to give us a piece of the fort, and not down in the wey marshy area.

288- The toll you pay has nothing to do with Ft. Desoto. That is for the State bridge you cross to get onto Ft. Desoto Island. If a fee was to be charged for Ft. Desotp they would have to build a toll booth on the island or negotiate a deal with the State.

Please cutback on starting new threads and try to post messages as a reply to existing threads.
If you want to cut and paste from your word processor do not do it directly. First paste it into notepad or other basic ascii editor so that the formatting codes are removed, then cut again. This will give you clean posts.