It makes no difference to me, since I know what I'm going to throw. I'm just thinking of the new guys. They show up and buy drivers that they can't throw, and someone like me will tell them to get a mid. Innova already has three Rocs that confuse them. Their site also has the Cro, Shark, Spider, Coyote, Skeeter, Cobra and Panther + the flippy trio (Stingray, Kite, Wolf) and the Gator all listed as mids. Now you add the Mako? Why? What shot wasn't covered by the 12 discs already listed there? How is a new players supposed to choose from this list?

If the Mako is the best thing since sliced bread, that’s fine. Some of the discs on this list need to go to make room for it. To me the Coyote seems to be sitting right in that spot, so choose one and axe the other.

Furthur wrote:Either get a lighter one, throw harder, or find a disc with more glide.

So Dave doesn't throw Rocs, that is certainly interesting news. Does anyone know which mid Dave does throw?

Stiffy nailed it. The Innova mid lineup is pretty cluttered and there seems to be a lot of overlap. The Shark and Roc are close to one another flight-wise and the Cro is a reasonably similar option albeit small diameter. The other molds (wolf, skeeter, kite, panther, etc) are really not anything special and for the most part don't handle power or wind very well. I do like the Coyote, but I bet I could throw the same lines with an Ontario Roc (if I had to use Innova mids). The Cobra is nice but I really only liked 'em in champion plastic and the Ontario mold configuration which they don't seem to make anymore. Something has to go if they are gonna introduce another mold to the catalog.

The Mako might get a toss or two just so I can see how it flies. I have to agree with the majority here though, this mold doesn't sound like anything super awesome.

Working Stiff wrote:Some of the discs... need to go to make room for it. To me the Coyote seems to be sitting right in that spot...

Nooooooooooooooo! FWIW I agree with you. Too many molds.I think Innova's creative exploits can be best used in a different arena. The current molds are fine in both quantity and quality; I think they shold work on consistancy and plastic blends.

Golf is a lot of walking, broken up by disappointment and bad arithmetic. ~Author Unknown

...and not changing the mold midstream while not letting the public know and end up with about 3,458 different molds of the same disc of which the original was the best, but they won't go back to it (usually).

The Comet was an Ontario Roc clone? You learn something new every day. I'm not as well steeped in Disc history as Working_Stiff and I was just venturing a guess. A Buzzz copy/competitor would be well not exciting, and I thought the buzzz was supposed to be the better Shark. Like I said I'm just guessing.

Champ Coyote? Interesting. The Coyote also feels a lot like the Buzzz. Maybe Dave D is retooling his favorite.

pointdisc wrote:...and not changing the mold midstream while not letting the public know and end up with about 3,458 different molds of the same disc of which the original was the best, but they won't go back to it (usually).

pd

This is why manufacturers should list what run is what, like 8th Run, 9th, Run 10th Run etc etc etc.

If you took all the porn off the internet there would only be one website left and it would be called Bring Back the Porn.

On the chart, my guess is that we'll lose the Cobra (4,4,-2,2) and Dave D will keep the Coyote (4,5,-1,1) and pair it up with it's small diam. cousin the Skeeter (5,5,-1,1) . The Mako will probably be more like 4,5,0,1, and go under the Spider (5,3,0,1).

The RW-Pro had some promise in that it was supposed to be stupid grippy, but I imagine it has the same durability problems as R-Pro. I've never thrown one.

That being said, the Innova midrange line-up could maybe use something that flies like a Roc in premium plastic (assuming Star Ontarios don't fit that bill, never tossed one). A Buzzz clone, sure, I could see that getting some sales.

This? Not sure where it fits. The last few straight, no fade mids from Innova have been poop (Skeeter, Goblin, Dart). Doubt this one will be any better.

Jesse B 707 wrote:if they were gonna try to clone anything im pretty sure they would go for the buzz at this point, doubt the comets sales numbers are anything to stress for innova

So what is the point of bringing back the San Marino Roc? Other than to confuse the shit out of new players, that is.

I guess I could see it if the San Marino flies like shit in Star and Champ and the Mako is planned for Champ and Star runs to complete with the Z and ESP Buzzz. There still is too damn many mids in that lineup if you ask me, something like the Shark or Coyote (or both) need to go.

Dave D. doesn't throw Rocs. In all my posting back and forth with him over the years I would venture to say that if it were not for the Roc's mystique and popularity Dave would have scrapped it by now. So Innova makes the Roc line of beaded mids and the non-Roc line which Dave is more personally invested. Most of these non-Roc mids have had major weaknesses compared to the Roc and its incarnates and clones. Dave still wants to fix this and make a straight mid with good HSS and glide that grips differently from the Roc. I'm not sure the Mako sounds like the answer though.

By the look and description its basically going to be an Aurora-type disc, hardly seems groundbreaking...How will Innova droll up excitement over this one? It not like they can ride the Shark's underwhelming popularity...

Dave does not like Rocs very much, but he usually does keep one in the bag for a few shots though. It is like you said, its mostly due to the mystique and that so many players endorse it that it is so popular. His bag is ever changing, but he does enjoy a nice spider in the bag. He is on the constant search for a better gripping roc and a putter that will make him into a sniper.

its a game of mistakes. whoever can make the least amount of mistakes wins.

x-out wrote:Dave does not like Rocs very much, but he usually does keep one in the bag for a few shots though. It is like you said, its mostly due to the mystique and that so many players endorse it that it is so popular. His bag is ever changing, but he does enjoy a nice spider in the bag. He is on the constant search for a better gripping roc and a putter that will make him into a sniper.

the dart is not poop. it is a great slow speed mid and ive met a few people that like it for putting. now the r-pro plastic is poop for anything but a putter like disc. i do think that the innova mid line-up is cluttered, but whats wrong with variety? i know i like rocs and dont need anything else, but thats not to say someone else might prefer a shark or a cro or a mako. Disc manufacturing is just like any other business and they are trying to establish a line-up that appeals to the largest population. producing the same twenty molds forever is not a very good way to do this.

i wont buy a mako, but i will throw it if i get a chance. i pretty much have my bag on lock-down unless i find something that flies like some of the seasoned discs that i have to beat up to get much use out of.