Have you ever truly been in a situation where if you do something you know you probably shouldnt, that someone much bigger and tougher than you is going to come over and grab you and likely beat your face in?

My first year of Midget we had DJ King on our team for half the year until he went off to the WHL. Our injury rate skyrocketed after he left. The only bad injury I recall before he was on the team was a guy catching an edge and slamming into the boards and breaking his leg, noone hit him or anything. People definitely think twice if they think they might get their face filled in, or even if they might get their buddy on the bench's face filled in. Noone wants to have to go up to their teams enforcer after the game and say "Gee, thanks for helping me out there after I ran that dude like a total moron"

Yrs ago when the Browns , Proberts , semenkos of the NHL would beat a player to a pulp....then pick him back up and beat him some more for a cheap shot.leading to a line brawl,or the benches clearing......but now there is the instigator rules....helmet rules...lengthy suspensions....no leaving the bench......fighting has lost its true purpose of protecting players and is just for fan excitement

I think that little weezle Betman alouded to that, like "we're in the entertainment business" I guess like the WWE lol

Well, you've heard players say goons give them confidence, I just wanted to see if the opposite was true. It would have to be the case for a goon to be effective.

We have three threads on three seperate suspensions on the main board right now for dirty hits. I fail to see how these goons police the game.

Giving the players on their own team more confidence isnt being effective?

Just wondering if youve stopped to think what the likelihood of a player admitting they are afraid to play their game would be?

I suppose because nobody has been foolish enough to do so is proof that it never happens?

That said the effectiveness of a true deterrent has no doubt been undermined by those who would like to remove fighting from the game and their shortsighted implementation of the "instigator" rule. Perhaps that coincides with the number of incidents youve described being reported on the main page?

Yrs ago when the Browns , Proberts , semenkos of the NHL would beat a player to a pulp....then pick him back up and beat him some more for a cheap shot.leading to a line brawl,or the benches clearing......but now there is the instigator rules....helmet rules...lengthy suspensions....no leaving the bench......fighting has lost its true purpose of protecting players and is just for fan excitement

Hyperbole aside, I'm not sure I disagree, but I do think the protectionism of the past is overstated. That being said, fighting with the instigator in makes fighting useless

I dont seem to recall the Oilers of the McSorley, Brown, Semenko days being plagued with injuries like the present day team is. Maybe its just a coincidence.

This is going way off topic, but a goon wouldnt have stopped that hit on Hall, since it was more unfortunate than dirty. A goon also wouldnt have stopped RNH from tripping over the blueline and into the boards.

The game was also a lot slower back then, so the hits weren't as extreme. But yeah, I agree the instigator rule is a big reason why goons dont have much power, but their effectiveness is exaggerated, since no hockey player is going to be afraid of getting beat up. Its hockey. Unless you are a small skilled player like RNH, you are going to have to fight at some point.

But this whole topic should be taken to another thread, as I'm sure some are getting annoyed with coming here to get an update and having to read instigator opinions.

Have you ever truly been in a situation where if you do something you know you probably shouldnt, that someone much bigger and tougher than you is going to come over and grab you and likely beat your face in?

Well ya, I played hockey all growing up, plenty of times I would do something I shouldn't to get some one else to take a penalty. I use to love playing teams with lots of tough guys with hot tempers. I found they were the easiest games to be honest. I dind't find it deterred any one. All I know is that after you scored a couple goals on the powerplay the cheap shots usually stoped.

for the record I am not trying to pretent I am some super brave guy. Of course, the threat of getting my a$$ kicked stops me from doing lots of things. The point being there are refs in hockey. That sort of changes the whole dynamic. You don't worry about guys fighting you. I am pretty sure every NHLer could really care less if Mackintyre is on our team or not.

Why can Reggie Wayne hurt his knee in the Sunday night game and then have the news that he tore his ACL Monday morning? But Taylor Hall hurts his knee early Saturday afternoon, and we have no clue to the extent 50 hours later?

Why can Reggie Wayne hurt his knee in the Sunday night game and then have the news that he tore his ACL Monday morning? But Taylor Hall hurts his knee early Saturday afternoon, and we have no clue to the extent 50 hours later?

Hall flew back to Canada where he'll be ushered to the front of the MRI line. Still has to wait a bit probably until they can smush him in. Reggie Wayne paid in a private system to be at the front of the line. No waiting at all in a private system, versus squeezed into a social medicare system. Thus, a short wait. If Hall was you or I, he'd be waiting a lot longer.

Why can Reggie Wayne hurt his knee in the Sunday night game and then have the news that he tore his ACL Monday morning? But Taylor Hall hurts his knee early Saturday afternoon, and we have no clue to the extent 50 hours later?

No idea who Reggie Wayne is (football?)... but Hall apparently just had his MRI this afternoon so maybe the team doesn't have the same access to the MRI machines as some other teams in North America.

Regardless I think we'll probably know "soonish"... probably by tomorrow at the latest I'd think. I know living in the North where I am... if I or someone up here an injury like that... it would literally be several months just to get an appointment to get an MRI... so "50 hours" is peanuts in the grand scheme of things.

Well ya, I played hockey all growing up, plenty of times I would do something I shouldn't to get some one else to take a penalty. I use to love playing teams with lots of tough guys with hot tempers. I found they were the easiest games to be honest. I dind't find it deterred any one. All I know is that after you scored a couple goals on the powerplay the cheap shots usually stoped.

for the record I am not trying to pretent I am some super brave guy. Of course, the threat of getting my a$$ kicked stops me from doing lots of things. The point being there are refs in hockey. That sort of changes the whole dynamic. You don't worry about guys fighting you. I am pretty sure every NHLer could really care less if Mackintyre is on our team or not.

Sorry, but refs arent going to save you if some big nutcase on another team is going to grab and beat the stuffing out of you. Im not talking about pee wee or bantam. Unless youve played at a junior level where fighting, and getting your face beaten in by a much bigger and stronger player is an ever present reality, then you probably arent going to understand that yes, it isnt some kind of fairy tale, or something that just happens on tv.

And sorry if the Hall injury thread got sidetracked, but really, no news is likely bad news, as we are likely to find out in the coming days, and something we have seen before. Inevitably this conversation comes up again and again, and yes, everyone does have an opinion and should express it imo. Nobody is "right". We all have our opinions and all Im doing is expressing mine.

Hall flew back to Canada where he'll be ushered to the front of the MRI line. Still has to wait a bit probably until they can smush him in. Reggie Wayne paid in a private system to be at the front of the line. No waiting at all in a private system, versus squeezed into a social medicare system. Thus, a short wait. If Hall was you or I, he'd be waiting a lot longer.

Are there not private facilities in Canada where Hall, or anyone else for that matter can pay for an MRI? If not, they most certainly could arrange to do so in America if need be. Likely the urgency isnt there, because he is likely gone for at least the foreseeable future. What's a day or two when we are talking about months of recovery time?

Dirty play and concussions? Surely you are aware this isn't something new. I will agree with your last statement however. Going back 10-20 years ago though if a guy took a run at your star player he would have to answer for it. Whether it's right or wrong is debatable but there was some degree of protection in having an enforcer/goon on the bench.

Why can Reggie Wayne hurt his knee in the Sunday night game and then have the news that he tore his ACL Monday morning? But Taylor Hall hurts his knee early Saturday afternoon, and we have no clue to the extent 50 hours later?

ACL tears are a clinical diagnosis - you get a positive Lachmann's test on exam that's diagnostic. Often in acute settings it takes an MRI for the diagnosis if the swelling/pain is too severe to do a normal exam - but an exam diagnosis could be the reason for the quick report?

That being said - Hall had to fly into EDM and probably had to go through the public system to get that MRI done - the Colts had Wayne playing at home, and could get an MRI done within hours thanks to paying for it.

That's just speculation though - I have no idea how quickly athletes get ushered in for imaging in Canada.

It takes 10-15 minutes tops for a radiologist to read that MRI - the team probably got the report by this evening. If he indeed got that MRI today (like others are saying) there should probably be an announcement tomorrow

ACL tears are a clinical diagnosis - you get a positive Lachmann's test on exam that's diagnostic. Often in acute settings it takes an MRI for the diagnosis if the swelling/pain is too severe to do a normal exam - but an exam diagnosis could be the reason for the quick report?

That being said - Hall had to fly into EDM and probably had to go through the public system to get that MRI done - the Colts had Wayne playing at home, and could get an MRI done within hours thanks to paying for it.

That's just speculation though - I have no idea how quickly athletes get ushered in for imaging in Canada.

Oilers go to a private clinic for MRIs is my understanding from a little bit of hearsay

Are there not private facilities in Canada where Hall, or anyone else for that matter can pay for an MRI? If not, they most certainly could arrange to do so in America if need be. Likely the urgency isnt there, because he is likely gone for at least the foreseeable future. What's a day or two when we are talking about months of recovery time?

Yes there definitely are. The husband of a lady i work with paid privately($800) to get his MRI done instead of waiting 6-12 months.