Actually most of the regional players stay with. The boca interregional is still worthwhile. Not so much in region one but there are other regions where top conference coaches coach the regional teams. Also a lot of coaches scouting the boca sidelines. The state teams not so much.

I decided to look at the lack of ability on the PAE 2000 U16G ODP team. Among the 26 players, there are six PF, one PDA, four CFC, and one FC Bucks representing ECNL clubs. There are other well known clubs and teams represented So, maybe 3:32 is correct, and there is no ability among ODP players.

911 it is definitely second tier right now for boys. True, but there are always a few boys on the odp squads who could play DA if they so chose. High school, travel, loyalty might keep them where they are. there is still opportunity for regional players.

Regarding the girls. The DA will likely change things, but there are still excellent quality girls in the regional programs. Some have been to national camps, Others at the level and hoping to get a look. Still college coaches at the state tournament though nothing like PDA

So are those 2000G ECNL players at the top or bottom of their respective rosters? Are they kids looking for more exposure because they are on the bench during ECNL events? Or are they, as someone said earlier, looking to play on the regional teams for national exposure? Or are they a mix?

11:29 - Considering that every player on an ECNL team allegedly earned a roster spot through a competitive tryout or other knowledge of their skills, and ECNL teams are billed as the best of the best, then even the players who surf the pine are presumably of a better quality than those left behind. Therefore, it does not matter from a quality perspective whether they are top or bottom of the roster. Now, if you imply that only the top half of an ECNL roster is any good, and the bottom half is permitted on the team for revenue, political or other non-performance purposes, while others of better quality are left behind, then the roster status of an ECNL member of ODP would have some bearing on whether they bring quality to ODP.

9:11 - Educate us. If ODP is "Old School", what is "New School"? What does a player do who does not have access to a DA based on factors such a distance from training site or availability of parents to provide transportation during the week; and what if a player has other athletic or academic pursuits that might get in the way?

So I was thinking about the posts above and spent a few minutes googling. I have older kids who went through ODP when all the kids tried out and it was considered a huge accomplishment just to make the state team.

It appears that almost all of the Penn Fusion and PDA ECNL players have been to the Region 1 tournament in Florida. That suggest that these players are looking for additional exposure. So I looked on the Penn Fusion web pages. The top point earner for Penn Fusion is playing ODP. So now intrigued, I looked at the ECNL PDP id rosters for the northeast. When I have more time, I will look at the other state associations rosters, if published, and cross reference to PDP. Both GK kids and the previously mention Penn Fusion kid were invited to PDP. The fact that they still are doing ODP suggests to me that the ECNL players are looking for more exposure.

Exactly. But they do have a couple other venues. It's really bad at the state level. You would think they would try and make it really great. Great venue, great coaches, great refs, water on the sidelines, tents, scheduling more than a couple days in advance, etc. to combat the negativity. Instead they dig themselves into a hole offering none of the above. Compared to ECNL events or even club run national league events, ODP state level is piss poor. The USYSA even creates conflict between its own events. Someone needs to be fired.

Never said I was smarter than anyone, but if you are paying ODP the money I know you are then yes I am smarter than you. I know we all want our kids to have the best and be given every chance to succeed. It used to be a good path but it just isnt anymore. You can deny it and rationalize it all you want but deep down inside you know it is true.

In the case of Maryland, are some clubs using ODP as a recruiting tool? I saw a local franchised club advertise "try out for our Super Y Summer team, and get recognized for ODP...". The TD of this particular club is a head coach at MD ODP, and said club always advertise the names of the 20 or so ODP selections every year on their website. BTW - Super Y does not even go the ODP route anymore and use their own Regional Scouting Series (RSS) as the avenue to recognize the elite players in the summer league.

I agree the Regional ODP is still a good avenue for elite players to get recognized, but there are definitely issues at the State level in the case of Maryland. Some elite players have dropped out of MD State ODP to pursue ECNL teams, so MSYSA has some work to do before this thing collapses by the time the girls DA comes around.

Yes, there are only a limited amount of players getting access to DA and ECNL teams, but would the cost of ODP be justified if you are supposed to be playing and training with elite players?

Ok I have said mamy times that those so vehemently critical of ODP have kids who have been excluded possibily even from the regional team. Maybe most of them are because I don't know why someone would come on here and say that its a waste of money etc. unless they had a an agenda; why wsste the time and energy to do so? I would guess within a couple days, I wouldn't bother to write this, but the irritiation is acute right now and I will consider this post cathartic.

The venues for the tournament were horrendous. Yup the grass was very long at mercer as someone else predicted. Yet some teams got more than one game on turf others were subject dangerous conditions on mixed high grass and bare dirt pitted fields. How in the world is a player supposed to try and play actual soccer in such conditions. One of the fields was seriously an elementary school play ground! It was dangerous with important events looming. The refs average age was 35 balanced in a bimodal distribution between 16 year olds and 70 year olds.

Frankly we didn't care that one of the coaches wasn't familiar with the rules on rosters and re entry. We had written him off long before after attending a couple of training sessions over the last 4-5 months. One of my kids' teams has something like 22 dressed and the coach didnt know only 18 could play. Even playing time is a new one for us too. With rosters varying from some of the best ECNL/national league players to rec level kids it was pretty much a debacle. The level of frustration was evident with several of the players. Some of the top kids didn't even show up.

I have had 3 kids go through ODP over the last 8 years. We have been to Boca Raton for the interregional event. There is always great exposure at the regional level. The state level has sunk to an alltime low with socialistic coaches or a directive to try and keep everyone happy. Well you didn't keep the regional level kids happy on this one guys; some didnt even show up for the tournement and instead will simply report to RI others have simply written off the games as a necessary evil before the regional level. I think it will be cheaper to enter a guest registry at a tournament requiring a flight in the future to get the same exposure. Live and learn. Expect the level to sink further after this year.

Guys ODP is not even a shadow of what it was it is a real joke at the state level and the regional team is no longer cost effective. Enter the got soccer guest registry and take your chances with a team in a high flight is my recommendation. Yes the older teams had college coaches, but I can't imagine how they could have possibly evaluated kids with the surface the way it was and the level so poor.

There were a lot of coaches there scouting Friday night at mercer. At least 30. I saw several strong D1 programs there. Of course there was Rutgers but also saw William and Mary and Clemson. Princeton of course was there but also saw Dartmouth and Cornell. There were many others but with less obvious insignia.

So you agree that it is run completely wrong and is a waste of money. Making the regional team was never an issue for my son, it was the cost analysis on what you get that was for me. Did he have fun? Yes, but it doesnt need to be expensive with poor conditions.

Yes, I reluctantly agree that the regional team has some value, but does it outweigh the costs? I, as a staunch supporter of the only ID system that does not require politically motivated recommendations from clubs etc., am sorry that USYSA has screwed it up so badly. It was the only venue that a kid from a lesser known club in the hinterlands could show his or her abilities to college and national team coaches. I was and am, a big advocate of this model. However, it is run so poorly and without the mission of the program in mind. Yes a kid can still be seen by top level college coaches in the interregional in the late fall. But I think they could be so in a more cost effective manner through tournament guest registries and a video link. You guys really messed this decent program up. There could be a role for it in serving kids at lesser known clubs, but not the way you run it.

Since when was equal playing time advocated in an id event? Since when was an id event carried out on dangerous surfaces that cannot promote and display a players technical abilities. USYSA and region 1 should be embarrassed.

I am a newcomer to this forum, but like many of you, I have come to the conclusion that ODP is not worth it. I live in the state of Virginia and after witnessing the program, with my son participating, the only thing ODP is good for is as a resume builder if your child is looking to play soccer in college.

It has been my son's intent to always get better. My son has always been the fastest and one of the most technically skilled players on his travel and high school teams. My son tried out for ODP (for the first time) in 2014-15. He didn't make it. I contacted the ODP Coach and never received a response. After a long talk with my son about getting better, I hired a trainer, worked with him for roughly six months, and made the ODP team in 2015-16. It was also during that tryout that I realized that it was who the coaches knew who determined who would be selected to the team.

However after recognizing another kid who made the team, I realized that ODP, unfortunately, is all about getting your $$$$. If a child has a little talent and the parents can afford it, you can be on the team. I thought ODP would bring the best players from Virginia -- no, it brings out those who can afford it. When the rosters for two teams were created (Team #1 and Team #2), I asked what was the coach what was the selection process for these teams. Again, no response. I asked the VYSA...no response.

I attended the Region I Tournament this past weekend. My son, who played on Team #2, played a Connecticut Team that only had 10 men at the outset. I don't know if I should be upset with the players, who some really didn't belong to begin with, or the coaches, who had five opportunities to 'coach them up' (two in December, two in January, and one on June 5th).

Paying $340 to be a part of the State ODP Program is a bad return on your investment, especially after you pay $60 for District Tryouts, $320 for 10 District Training Sessions, $360 to attend the North Carolina Friendlies, $310 for the Virginia Friendlies (and you live 30 minutes from the site?), $500+ for the Region I Tournament, and $750 for the Region I Tournament in July.

While my son learned nothing from ODP, I can truly say that if my son does play collegiately, it will be due to him playing with his club, not ODP. ODP doesn't make you better, it makes parents understand why soccer in the U.S. is so messed up. It should be about talent, not $$$$.

First you say your kid didn't make it the first time he tried out and therefore the selections are political and then you say the next year when he was selected that they will take anyone who can pay. Did you suddenly become able to pay the fees this year when you couldn't last year? Hmmm My kids have participated for years. They have been on the regional team which is reasonably priced and great exposure. However the state teams are horrible. My kids see it as a necessary evil to get to regional programs. I heard yesterday that region 1 management was very corrupt and was replaced last year. Left over committments are the West Virginia site, Rhode Island camp and rider. I hope the new administration will do a better job with this responsibility. Seems to me that the soccer plex in Maryland might be a good spot relative to the population centers in the northeast. I don't know of a similar venue in NJ. Which would probably be even better location wise. The turf farm keeps the grass too long for ideal soccer.

Don't waste your money on ODP. Find a trainer and use it towards extra hours of really pushing your child. The kids on these teams are mediocre to say the least. Everyone feels super confident that they have finally been given an opportunity to be recognized but in fact they are all playing lower level soccer. Get a trainer or send your kid to a high end camp. ODP is a poor set up.

I am going to be in ODP's corner. The kids train maybe 10 times play in a tournament if they are good they advance to Semi-Finals in DE for Region 1 and if they win that they advance to nationals in AZ. How is this a bad thing again? If you want then they go to RI to try and get on the Regional team that travels to Costa Rica and other countries to play this game. Once again how is this bad?

PS. Soccer is very subjective and very political that's just how it is if you are not a stand out. The prodigy kid's are easy they stick out or the best kid's in a group after that it's what the coach wants and thinks is the best in his/her eyes.

So for me ODP is an option for any child. if your kid plays ECNL and isn't selected for id2 or doesn't play a lot why should they stop trying. Give ODP a shot like most do and see where the chips fall and if you didn't make it try again since soccer is very subjective and next year you might come across a coach that likes your kid's skill set.

It seems the key with ODP is to get IDed early. They seem to keep kids around. And it does seem political. I have no issues with my kid not getting selected. I don't think she is NT quality but I've seen really good kids get overlooked for the mediocre.

Gotta love these parents. "I dont think she is NT quality". Really? She isnt one of the best 22 players in the country??? To even be thinking that way is part of the problem, parents over value their kids

If you believe the 22 players named to NT status are the best 22 players in the country, then you need a reality check. There is no system so reliable that it can actually select the best 22 out of tens if not hundreds of thousands. It takes the right combination of merit, personal resources, connections, and luck to make the top 22.

I have read through these comments and see value in different perspectives. There are an array of factors as to why ODP is or isn't the best avenue for a particular player. With that being said, my daughter has participated for two years and has learned a great deal from the process. It has taught her how to have grit, navigate unfamiliar situations and given her exposure to other girls in the region that are top players. I border for that to have happened, she had to train with her state ODP that was mediocre. The training she receives at her club team is better quality overall, but the life lessons she has learned to make it to the final regional pool is priceless. The girls chosen were quality players who definitely were not just the strongest, most athletic. They looked for technical ability, being smart onntbe ball and good decision making. It is easy to get that far.

I know being on an ECNL team and attending other camps are beneficial as well, but I respect the process. There are many college coaches at the tournaments. I would not write ODP Off before you consider this. It is definitely not cheap- that I agree with. Take many factors into account before you discredit ODP. There are lots of talented girls on the regional teams and that are chosen for national camps. Best of luck to all of your players!

Sorry about typos on the above post. Posting on a small screen is not the best I see. Autocorrect can be maddening! I meant to say in the last sentence of the 1st paragraph that it is not easy to get that far.

To some of the comments regarding seeing Bethesda ECNL players boarding the bus bound for Rhode Island: these players were not on Bethesda ECNL at the time of MD ODP tryouts last December, so they are just playing out their ODP "commitment". Very highly unlikely they would be back as it is not feasible to do both an ECNL and ODP training regimen.

Next year, I foresee more SAM, MSI, and CCL players being on MD ODP rosters, especially at the U13 and U14 level. This is because pre-ECNL/ECNL players may now strive to get on a girls DA team for Fall 2017, while others backfill those ECNL spots made available. Look for upcoming marketing efforts from MSYSA just after the release of tryout announcements for December 2016.

Other than ECNL, the next best way to get exposure to elite teams and players in the Region 1 area, is to be involved with an EDP team or Region 1 Champions League team. The training is top notch, and the games are very competitive.

How does the pool look? Is it posted somewhere? There were quite a few ECNL kids from region one going to RI in my daughters group. more than enough to fill the roster if you count NEFC as ECNL since they will be this year.

One quick note: just because a player is on an ECNL team and tries out for ODP, does that mean that player lower quality or a bench player. We concur that ECNL has provided more high quality competitions and development. It's great playing with a full team of similar strengths and will to play at the highest levels. But there is merit in being a strong competitor in other than a player's main position. My daughter is doing ODP in a second and third position (which she doesn't get to do as often in ECNL. ODP has been great in meeting friends, going overseas to play, etc. And although we have been on an ECNL team for a few years, I can tell you that there are some top quality players from MSC, FC Frederick, Calvert Elite, Pipeline, etc on the ODP teams. Just as the previous post about the girls who weren't originally on Bethesda ECNL but made it during the May tryouts, these are high quality girls. Some have been featured players/ best XI on soccer wire. All of the top leagues are expensive and there is a lot of travel costs for ECNL. So it was a bit skewed to appear that ECNL or the Girls DA will be less than ODP or get more comparatively to cost. And since HIgh school sits out, it's great to keep touches and additional exposure in the summer thru Super Y and/ or the ODP camp. Most elite camps are about $600 for the week anyway. They are all venues and I encourage all to not get caught up in the politics and do what is best for your child based on skills, tech ability, competitiveness, and love of the sport. Best Wishes in everything and glad it didn't rain as much in Rhode Island.

There are ODP players who have been to national camps. Some of the top players from some of the ECNL teams that encourage ODP or at least don't discourage it are participating. Also the quality NEFC teams in Mass, soon to be ECNL, provide strong competitors. I am always surprised what strong players show up from the hinterlands and a few usually make the regional teams. My daughter's regional ODP team would handily beat her ECNL team.

2003 and 2000 girls lists are posted. Some familiar names, some relative unknowns. Other age groups finish camp this weekend, so expect the pool lists to be posted early next week. Unfortunately, the lists do not identify club or position.

The selectees come from the full spectrum of youth soccer, ECNL to town level. Some ECNL players did not make it. In many cases, ID'd girls live in areas that are not reasonably accessible to ECNL or other elite clubs, which goes to show that there is talent everywhere.

My daughter has gotten significant exposure through the regional team. Interestingly, several ECNL players did not make the Boca roster or even the pool. Coach subjectivity and personal preferences might be an explanation. Kids making it from weird places like upstate NY, State College and Charlottesville tells me that there are still great players needing ODP to get exposure because the distance is too far to travel for ECNL. Glad ODP can provide that for them.

Uh duh, how many of those players in NC were children playing ODP or youth soccer in State college? Weird places for Region 1 ODP team players to come from. How many have come from State college before. Troll

ODP is great; same Region 1. But, if your area doesn't send a coach to fight for their assn, they can be on the outside looking in. Like that some are asked to play different age groups for Boca and other trips. Agree with those above that note that it is whatever you want to get out of it; like anything else.

My daughter has had a wonderful experience with ODP/Region I. There are many dedicated people who help run these programs.

Earlier this year, through ODP/Region 1, she played against the U17 Costa Rican National Team (2xs). The same team that played our U17 YNT a month later in CONCACAF (minus the red card). And, she played against 2 pro CR women's teams - teams that feed CR senior national team you know with Rockey Rodriguez.

The tourney had a total of 4 games, including the nat'l team which they played 2xs. Her Reg 1 team finished with 3 wins & 1 loss (loss was 1-2). A very good showing for a team that only trained 1 day together before play started. The CR teams were extremely fast and good technically. Soccer around the world is improving.

But, where are you getting that type of playing experience outside of the YNT?

It was fantastic and definitely worth it as far as her experience, training and development. She has met and worked with some great coaches (state and regional level), received some great, additional training, met some awesome people who only want to see soccer succeed, and, most importantly, made some great friends. The experiences have been priceless.

And, it seems that many top soccer programs around the country have staff STILL very much involved in ODP/Regionals. ODP is here to stay.

The point of the original post was to point out that kids who live in relatively remote areas to youth soccer uber teams/clubs/programs (yes I agree including State college- which clubs service kids in that area again?) can still gain siginificant exposure and accolades through regional ODP. I think it serves an excellent purpose for these potentially "lost" kids. It may also offer a different look and persepective for kids who may be late bloomers or otherwise undervalued through their primary club team. Making the regional team lends credibility to the players still. I concede that many of the "best" players don't play anymore, but enough in that general large group still do to keep it relevant.

Not sure why a national pool player would participate, but my daughter said at least one was in RI.

State College actually falls into the PA West zone, but has better access to PA East. Sometimes a standout player will filter down to one of the Harrisburg area clubs (e.g. LDC), or even PAC, if they can handle the commute. However, local options are improving. Penn United Soccer Academy and North Union United are reasonable destinations for a player who wants to see higher level competition as both clubs have travel programs that seek out tournaments. Although not F1, North Union United has a U14 girls team in the Presidents Cup final today, so that is somewhat of a national stage for them.

904 agree. President's cup will not attract the number and quality of coaches as will the Boca Interregional. For those of you who don't know the interregional teams are coached by some very impressive college coaches, including SEC, ACC, Big 10 programs. Attending the Boca games are representatives from all of the top programs. The Interregional is a great showcase and with only 1 or 2 games happening synchronously, the fields are lined with top coaches. My kid has played top flight at multiple national level tournaments and the coaches depth and breadth/ game is biggest at the Interregional.

Once again the point is that those players in some of the more remote areas can't get the kind of exposure that ODP regional team provides without sometimes a 2.5 hour commute (state college to Manheim) For those players ODP still has a real role. I think it also, as I said, plays a role for late bloomers who might have been pigeon holed in the uber club as a role player and are ready to prove otherwise to new eyes. Maybe also to garner accolades for kids just below the national team water mark and provide an alternative environment wherein scouts can make another assessment on them.

I don't think LDC or the girls PAC program offers anywhere near the national venue that the regional ODP does. PAC DA of course does offer all and more advantages than ODP, but players traveling 2.5 hours one way to practices 4 days a week is probably unrealistic for most families. North Union doesn't even enter the conversation as far as I see it.

Would you mind sharing more information about how the Boca camp works? Like is it true there's just one practice before their 1st game, is there re-entry, is it as stressful as Regional Camp, does USYS provide a travel subsidy or anything else who think would be useful for a player going there for the first time.

They get there by around noon the first day and train once in the evening. Then they have 2 training sessions the following day. Then they play 3 games against the other 3 regions in 4 days.

You have to schedule flights to arrive and depart at, before and after, a specific time. Not a problem in the past. if you do that they handle the transportation to and from the airport at Ft Lauderdale. You are responsible for the flight and there is a total coast for the event. I have found it to be very reasonable. I send my kids by themselves.

They have a roster of 18 and there are 7 subs allowed. There is no re entry once they are out- they are out. I have kids who in combination have participated in 5 events. All coaches handled it slightly differently, but this is the best summary I can offer;

All kids tend to play, but the Play time is far from equal. Some kids play the whole game and others play 10-15 minutes/game. Our experience is that in any given game about 3-4 players play the whole game. About 8 players split time in half. And about 6 players split time 75%-25%. So basically you have 4 kids playing the whole game, 3 playing 75% 8 playing 50% and 3 playing 25%. usually the full gamers pretty much stay full gamers. They may flip once or twice with a 75% kid. Usually the 50% kids spend at least one game as a 25% kid. There have been a few who were 25% kids the whole week, but some coaches don't let that happen.

There is no roster posting so I don't think its nearly as stressful as the RI camp, but if you are a 25% kid it probably isn't that fun. Might be hard to tell in advance where your kid fits. The miss Thanksgiving with the family if that's an issue at your house.

I have had a similar experience with my daughter. I was told that the coaches get to see the ODP kids in a different light. They are playing with kids they don't know outside of ODP and they see how the kids' adaptability to new surroundings, different kids, playing positions, and the like. It's pretty interesting how it all comes together. While you can still choose to go to a team or club based on some comforts, kids you know already on the team, proximity, coaches, etc., that is not what happens in college. So, they look at that part of it as well.

Girls ODP regional team is reasonably priced and offers great exposure both to college coaches and national teams...still. I don't know for sure the relevance for boys post DA. Many of those ECNL girls will not be doing ODP anymore after GDA is in place. The 2000 roster is full of NEFC, match fit and Penn fusion kids. Will the Bethesda kids go to Spirit? I predict a Spirit/Bethesda cooperative al la NEFC /Breakers.

5:03 - agree. ODP is reasonably priced and offers the kids a lot of different things that their club doesn't. ODP helps discover kids and put them on the path to higher level soccer play that they may not otherwise see. Will be interesting to see how it plays out with it as well.

I watched the Region III camp last week. My kid had a good time which was their only objective. From that standpoint, ODP was worth it. However, the rank politicization or the process left me feeling like I needed a shower. The integrity of the process is dependent upon the integrity and competency of those involved in it. In some circumstances, the contrast between the on-field performance/results and the pool selections were so stark, that it was blatantly obvious that at least some of the regional coaches dispelled their obligations for fair and unbiased evaluations in favor of rank advocacy.

In short, if you're looking for more that a good time for your kid, you better make sure that you have an advocat involved in the selection process.

9:06 - Sadly, that is true at times. My friend's child has been the victim of the her coach/ someone from her Assn is on the selection team. My friend's kid was the better player. And in a head to head match during the season proved it as well.

You just have to keep telling your child to continue to play hard and her hard work will be recognized/rewarded at some point.

You guys are sore losers. The region III coaches are college coaches with no club loyalties. It doesn't necessarily follow that because your kid's TEAM beat another's that she's the better player. Maybe one or two spots are influenced by certain human emotions and loyalties, but there are a huge number of clubs represented. if your kid was truly exceptional she would have been awarded a spot. In the huge pool of very good players ( wherein yours most likely resides) lots of qualities could have influenced the selections. From a coach not looking when she did something well to a coach looking to play a different style that doesn't fit yor kid. If she's in the great abyss of very good try again next year and maybe some of the luck that goes into the selection of the role players ( all but the 5 best) will go her way next year. What specific evidence do you have that the selections were political other than you think your kid should have made the team?

Off topic.. But have any of your girls done the U.S. Girls National training camps? The one day events they hold regionally. I am wondering if any of you have older girls have gone through and what is the outcome/end result of continuous invites?

9:41 The evidence is circumstantial but I believe it speaks for itself. Additionally, I was not referring to one player but an entire team that was disenfranchised. Team A defeats Teams B, C & D by scores of 2-1, 3-1 & 1-0, respectively. Team B gets 8 players placed in the region pool, Team C gets 8 players and Team D gets 5 players. The styles of play are similar for all four teams, in the manner in which they are coached. An objective observer would think that Team A would warrant a similar number of pool selections with their performance. In fact they had no players selected. N O N E. The main advantage that Teams B, C & D had were coaches from their state association amongst the regional coaches making the pool selections while Team A had none. N O N E. You do the math.

On another point, I'm a little worn on hearing results don't matter. It's a sport. Isn't the goal to win. The sentiment seems un-American to me.

Selection is based on more than just individual talent. Demeanor, leadership, attitude, ability to follow directions, sportsmanship, etc. are all also considered. Maybe, because Team A had its way with Teams B, C & D, the Team A players all thought they were better, expressed that attitude, and did not try as hard as the B, C & D players.

10:38 I assure you that was not the case. Team A played hard and was very respectful. Is it really that difficult for you to believe that the leaders charged with making impartial decisions chose instead to pursue their own agendas and those of their constituents. In this case and many others, unfortunately, I fear the truth is rather uglier than your rosy rationalizations.

Region III guy - when you use the term "team" with respect to the A, B, and C competition, do you refer to a club team or a state association subdivision? I looked at the Region III 2002 pool, and there does appear to be favoritism to certain state association subdivisions. One would expect a more equal distribution of geographic source locations for the players. There may be a difference in approach between Region I and Region III regarding the selection process. Except for living accommodations, all states are combined and mixed during the Region I camp evaluation process.

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Fact is if your kid is really outstanding she will get chosen. If she is in the great pool of excellent players some associations can sway some selections. However when one scrutinizes these lists, it is apparent from the great number of clubs represented, that most, but possibly not all selections were based on the regional coach's opinions on kids and that's all.

I don't think the region 3 coaches have club affiliations. I know the region 1 coaches do not. In fact there have been years where PF kids have not made the pool or team when one of their coaches was at camp as a scramble coach. He couldn't do anything for them. One was in the national pool at the time. Even this year not all PF ECNL kids made the top rosters.

2:10 Each state association in Region III forms their own teams. The teams play teams from other states in the morning sessions. Each team has a Regional coach from a different state evaluating the games. The Regional coaches meet in closed door sessions around lunch to select a small fraction of players for night games. The night games are mixed with players from different states. From both the night game selection and the final pool selection, it was obvious that the Regional coaches advocate for players from their state association teams. It was not as obvious that they advocated for certain clubs, although it did appear that some of the Regional coaches listed have club affiliations. The region I approach seems like a better process, but I'm confident that it does not eliminate the politics.

There are very few truly elite players whose attributes are so outstanding and weaknesses so insignificant that their selection is beyond debate, perhaps less than ten. The rest rely on a Regional coach standing up for them. I'm sure a lot of horse trading goes on. This is just they reality of the way things work. Use it to your advantage of be victimized by it. The sooner you accept it, the easier it is to approach it accordingly. It's very unseemly to me.

I am curious as to what happens if your kid didn't make the FL regional team but made the id team? My player didn't make either but is going through districts again and wants to know if she gets a shot at beating out the girls that made it this year. 2003 region 1

7:55 - Is your question with respect to whether Region I pool selects for 2016-2017 must openly compete for 2016-2017 state association roster positions through the tryout process? I think each state association approaches this differently, with some exempting the Region pool selects from tryouts altogether, and some granting partial exemptions through the first round of tryouts.

Is there a legitimate chance for a 2000 to make a PA ODP pool this year? Is it set like most teams and the player needs to come with a reccomendation for a respected coach? Or can they truly be judged fairly showing up un-announced and stand out enough to be called back or actually make the team?

Regarding PAE ODP 2000GThere has been significant turnover in the State team from year to year. I don't know who the coach will be, but in general there haven't even been many kids included from a club with which they are associated- if they even have a club association. The State team is wide open.

I have no association with ODP other than as a parent of kids who have participate din the past.

By un-announced I meant without a coaches reccomendation or invite. We went once back at U13 and during registration noted that the sign in sheet appeared to have a key suggesting current ODP players, club reccomendations and then "walk-ons" My daughter was not chosen but there was a training clinic set-up with the eventual ODP coach for her age (basically the standard EPYSA clinics). After the first 2 sessions the coach asked my daughter why she did not come to the ODP tryouts, that she definitely would have added her to the pool. When my daughter said that she did the coach was a bit surprised. We did a second round of tryouts the following year and noticed that there was very little "awareness" of the coaches, mostly focusing on one field or off to the side with backs turned talking amongst themselves. I am thinking at U17, unless you are invited it would just be a nice training session.

In my daughter's ODP experience, we have not seen a pattern of recommendations or invites. Have we seen players selected who probably shouldn't have been in our opinion? Yes. Have we seen players passed over who should have been selected? Yes. Is the system perfect? No. However, of all the various ID systems, I believe ODP has less politics and is less based on who you know then other systems, which are based on recommendations and invites. ODP is self-driven. You signup and you perform. That said, it does help to be a recurring participant where you tryout year after year, thus building momentum, particularly if you develop a history of being selected.

I have no idea what you mean by coaches recommendation. My 4 kids, both genders, have participated in PAE ODP at various times throughout the last 8 years. At no time did their coaches know or care about their attending an ODP tryout. They certainly did not offer any type of recommendation od support to their attendance. We have one that was participating that u13 year. There was no communication between her club or coach with any ODP administrators. What exactly did you see that suggested otherwise? I can believe that they might note those who had participated in the past and might use a previous year's ODP coach to weigh in on the selection. But as far as club doc recommendation or coach recommendation I think you are mistaken. Yes there are always players who can be missed in any tryout situation due to many legitimate reasons. Yours may have been one of them. I assure you if she is good, especially a the numbers and arguably the quality declines with advancing ages, she would have a fair chance at making this years teams. last year I know there were quite a few new kids from a wide range of clubs many smaller and remote.

regarding tryouts, it is standard procedure during a tryout to move kids up or down a "field" so that by the end most of the best kids are playing on a single field. A coach continues to monitor all of the second and third fields player for potential movement. I don't recall how exactly the U13 tryout was carried out, but that may have been what you observed. I have found the coaches to be relatively attentive to the kids during tryouts.

FYI We only told the club she was participating in ODP that u13 spring when something interfered.

I understand the perception, but my kid had no coaches' recommendations, either. In fact, her coaches had no idea what ODP was and neither did we until we did our research. And, speaking from our experience, it is all about the kids and helping them achieve their goals. The coaches are very good and very dedicated. But, like anything else, it is what you want to get out of it.

A far as PAE 2000 ODP. It's wide open. Huge turnover from u15-u16 and probably will be the same. I think the PA Rush coach is the coach so there won't be a ECNL bias. One year there was a Penn Fusion coach and there was a real problem then. I am guessing lots of PA Rush kids will be trying out.

Yes the 99 coach definitely displayed a bias toward ECNL and specifically Penn Fusion players in selection and play time. It's a natural thing, not saying EPYSA is corrupt. It's like the daddy coach phenomenon, only there is more than one kid who is "his". I dont think they should let ODP coaches coach kids in an age group where they coach for their club. Even with a perfect coach, there would be suspicion cast upon the team. Why not coach another age group unless there is an ulterior motive.

I guess you are unaware that PF kids are usually on every team, normally (girls and guys). There are a bunch asked up to the National Camps and on the Union Academy teams. Do you think that is daddy coach too or good coaching? I think it's great that any coach would invest so much time in helping to develop all the kids. It's very easy to sit on the sidelines and cast stones.

So the PF parents are piping in. It remains and is unarguable that an ODP coach should not be coaching a club team of the same age. Again daddy coach analogies hold. I am sure he is a great coach, but the bias cannot be expunged. Not disparaginf PF at all merely that coaches show biases toward their own kids- imagine that...Incontrovertable.

Has nothing to do with being a PF parent. I am a supporter of the ODP program in all the states. I know what it has done for my kid. And, that coach, in particular. And she wasn't playing for PF. Her club didn't want her to participate.

Oh so you weren't a penn fusion parent but your opinion is not related "has nothing to do with being a penn fusion parent". Ok now I get it. You got the favored treatment because your kid was being recruited. Now I get it.

Not at all. My kid was not being "recruited" as you said nor was she a PF kid. So, she didn't get or look for any favorable treatment. She worked for her playing time. Shame you don't expect the same. But that makes sense now. Just bitter.

The DOC is a national scout. He promotes his kids that aren't really more than strong regional players. He also recruits from the training center using natl camp recs as an incentive. Rumor has it that if a girl lives within two hours drive of his club, she won't get national unless she joins. But, he'll shun fantastic players should they ever extricate themselves from an abusive coach.

Nothing ever becomes of his kids past high school. That's really all the proof you need.

Hahahaha. Yes, I think that is a rumor. There have been kids that are not on that Club are within an hour's drive and HAVE been invited to national camps/teams.

Not sure what you mean about fantastic players being shunned. No one shuns fantastic players. The business of soccer is success. Fantastic players bring success and other fantastic players. Not knowing and just offering another explanation, maybe the fantastic player referenced really wasn't all that fantastic in comparison to truly fantastic ones or maybe that fantastic player failed to shine when being evaluated due to nerves.

Not really. He’s been demoted, so maybe some new are coming through the new head.

Wanting to or believing you are doing what makes you win is not the same as actually accomplishing it. He very stupidly shunned a real superstar. He did so thinking his team was the only real option for her and he would be able to ruin her, banish her to an inferior team, or make her knuckle under. She went to PDA. And yes, like follow like, she took a couple with her. Trying to influence parents or kids to not report coaches is considered as bad as the abusers, nowadays.

Another unintelligent belief they have is that they can predict which kids will become standouts. They use criteria that are the exact opposite of what research shows. Really, its who is the most advanced at this point in time.

So many that they spotlight have minor physical problems like unequal leg lengths. Watching some of their teams you wonder if it is soccer or a physical therapy group.

When they crash and burn, they quickly forget their predictions and dump the girl. Really, a phys ed major or an A license doesn’t make you a Ph.D. in physiology.

-Their teams rarely place near the top of even local ECNL brackets.-Their natl players never go on to be Herman trophy nominees, WNT, or pro-Kids they jerk around too much end up at much better clubs.

So the facts don’t match your fantasy, er, eh, I mean theory.

What will happen next year when PA Classics opens its academy and all the Lancaster girls go there? It’s the beginning of the end.

And, not sure you are aware of this but the local ECNL brackets are the top in the nation (hence the top 4 teams getting DA's). Not every kid enjoys every team they happen upon. I am quite sure that the club will survive w/PA classics getting an academy as well. Obviously, the kid you referenced had a bad experience. Not every team is a comfortable fit.

And, there are kids in the college system currently through them and in their system that very well may be on their way that may be Herman trophy nominees, WNT and pro.

I don't follow you re the leg length reference, but it sounds like you were making fun of a kid possibly with a disability. Kind of cruel.

Whoops. Sorry, I meant any club will survive another club getting a DA. Plenty of soccer out there. I am not sure which club you are referencing specifically. And, it doesn't matter. Many kids don't have good experiences and need a switch; hence the try-out merry go around.

Dude, how many clubs have WNT players? Not YNT but you are saying FWNT? That club hasn't been in existence that long. PDA is probably the most notable there; kudos to them and the great club they have built. Pros? Similarly, the ECNL hasn't even been in existence long enough to really impact that population.

What they have done recently? Three national champions ship kids who got serious minutes in the college cup last year. I think the current high goal scorer at UVA -just getting into that program much less real minutes like 2 of their former player frosh are right now is a huge accomplishment. The VA Tech kid is also getting good time. Look at the commitments totally respectable. The college ranks is the metric for youth clubs, not WNT or Hermann trophy winners (really?).

Shouldn't "strong regional players" get a shot at national camps what's the issue there? The leg length thing is really low and no idea to what that was referenced. Sounds like someone didn't like that their "real superstar" didn't get a national team invite. News flash, the national coaches do not invite players based solely on one scout's recommendation. Your kid wasn't good enough during the small period of time during which she was evaluated for inclusion. Also the head US scout in our area is a PA Classics coach. Where are all of the Pa Classics invites if politics is the golden ticket?

I heard there was a nutty 2003 family...probably driving the PDA folks crazy now. It's clear that 206 is the parent or one of the follower wanna bees of the "real superstar". Keep the dream that she will be a full WNT player or a Hermann trophy winner, but don't disparage coaches coaches and clubs in the process because they didn't value your player as much as you did.

Perfectly put. You obviously had more insight. I just know that my kid loves that particular club, the coaches, the kids. And, she didn't have a good prior experience elsewhere. But, I would never put that other club down because they are good, but just not a good fit for her. I chalk it up to part of the soccer maturing/learning process. Hopefully these people will learn that as well.

Recently, in the news, friends and family of an abuser in trouble with the law tried to recast his crimes as mutual intoxication and promiscuity. They “didn’t quite understand” his victim, but yet made completely unsupported unflattering characterizations.

Here, a discussion about protecting and covering up for coaches in trouble with the law is being recast as one about a child’s poor soccer development experience. Someone “didn’t quite understand”, but yet made completely unsupported unflattering characterizations. A few others posted in the interim.

What are you talking about? Are you saying this discussion of letting "super stars" go has some basis in a cover up for illegal activities? Because that is per se disparagement. Better be true if so because if not he and the club should file suit against you.

So let me just leave this right here before any final call backs or pool announcements are made.

Maryland ODP folks made some adjustments this go around for the 2017 State ODP tryout selection process, which is an encouraging sign. While there is no prefect system to combat the widely perceived "rigging" of the system with some of the players selected in the past, I am pleased to see some of these changes put into place.

With the 2 call back system in place, that gives the coaches additional time to take a good look at the players before announcing a final pool. However, there is still a huge perception issue with at least one of the head coaches who always seem to have major pull with this organization over the years. This said head coach is a life long ODP coach, making the rounds in VA and Region 1 in the past. He somehow boasts about getting HIS pool players on Region 1 teams, but when you do some research, coincidentally, most of these players are kids of other coaches who either, was or is affiliated with a club team he headed up at some point.

The optics with this head coach is widely discussed in the soccer community, and curious to see how this year shakes out with his pool players. At the very least, head coaches with these perceptions should not even be part of the tryout selection process, and just have to work with the final group the assessor coaches have deemed to be the best of the lot. This would seem a bit more transparent, but not completely free of "tinkering".

Bill Cosby called his accusers liars and crazy. He has tried to sue one. It got short circuited by his indictment.

"The case has been voluntarily dismissed at this time due to the pendency of the criminal proceedings in Montgomery County, PA, which impede Mr. Cosby's ability to fully participate in litigating the civil case”

"abusers will do whatever they can to intimidate and weaken their victims to force them to stop fighting.”

Oh, this troll again. Get some counseling. And there have always been overzealous parents, too. Hence the new legal trend to sue parents. Here is a sampling of those pending in various jurisdictions. https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/i-am-a-parent-defending-a-defamation-lawsuit-in-ma-1863439.html

Nonetheless, this is an ODP soccer blog. I am hopeful that people will post how their ODP try-outs are going.

VA District pools were named in August and they are training now. Good numbers of players across the State. The State tryouts will be end of November/beginning of December, with the State pool named in mid-December and starting off that training in January.

After u15 i think they go down to one team at each age sonot surprising it falls off. Also a lot of kids who didnt make it to regional camps drop out because the state program isn't very good. Also the committed kids who don't hope to get a look at national camp also drop out since they don't need college exposure.

Congrats to the ODP players that are participating in the current Interregionals in Boca Raton, FL and the boys that are playing next week. Many coaches in attendance, including US Soccer and some very good games.

ODP still gets the top college programs to come out and root on the kids. It's a tradition that will continue on and may even become stronger in light of the DA's and only a few slots to fill. The kids really enjoy it. These are kids that are all soccer junkies. They get to meet and play with and against new kids that share the same passion about the sport.

This is from one of the Boca webpages: “The Olympic Development Program has always done a great job preparing players to play at the next level,” University of Michigan head coach Greg Ryan said. “The focus has been on development. You bring the best players together. They get to play with new players. It’s very much like what happens at college. They leave their club teams and friends they’ve played with forever and have to join a group of new friends and find out how to play together very quickly.”

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