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Chris, maybe you can shed some light on something. You say that skeptics are afraid or threatened by what you have witnessed? I see this, or other versions of it, quite often at the BFF. I really don't understand it. Why would anyone here be afraid of the discovery of Bigfoot? My world view would not be rocked off its hinges so to speak if someone dragged the monkey out of the bush. I would applaud it and happily chow down on crow. But afraid? Threatened by the prospect even? I can assure you that is not the case at all and I truly do not understand the accusation to be honest.

ETA: Chris, you mentioned your "work" at the primate research center voluntarily. Now you act like we're prying into your personal life by asking you to offer something to verify that claim? Why mention something like that in the first place if you were not prepared for at least a follow up question or two?

This is a common mistake among skeptics. They tend to classify Bigfooters along with a faith based religion of one type or the other.

Many witnesses of bigfoot are eye witnesses. The same can't be said of faith based beliefs.

There is no reference to bigfoot in the Bible. Maybe the odd hairy child being born once in a while, or giants, but not definitively Bigfoot.

Granted, those who are only looking at what evidence is available for bigfoot without having an actual visual encounter may believe that there's a good chance the creature exists without ever having seen one. There are none in that classification that have "0" doubts though.

Am I a Christian? I was raised as a Baptist but do not attend any church. I am certain evolution is the correct path as I have witnessed evidence of parallel evolution. Namely that of a large bipedal primate.

I consider myself a "knower" rather than a "believer" because I have actually witnessed the creatures personally.

It would seem I'm in a hostile environment. By my being here it seems many must feel threatened because I've witnessed the very thing they deny. By attacking me or my mental state, they seem to feel more secure in their disbelief. That's unfortunate because I really wish everyone could experience an encounter on their own. Not on some pay-per-trek bigfoot adventure ripoff, but experience them by doing the homework, finding a good area and making treks into that area. That is the way to solve the mystery. Even if you think there is no bigfoot, a little exercise isn't gonna hurt. Some time spent in nature is a good thing. Critical thinking implies an open mind to discovery, not a closed book denial.

Now, can we please get on another subject besides myself.

Why not a bigfoot being cataloged and "discovered"?

Why is it only that you want people to have an "encounter"?

You know why? Because you know as well as I do there is no real creature to be found. The experiences or "encounters" are made up, or someone coaxes you to believe the rattle in the bushes, the blob I saw MUST be bigfoot. How could it be anything else?

The "knowers" like yourself, are full of crap. The only denial here, is by you and by other "believers" (hint, you wouldnt have to "believe" anything if it were real) that the bigfoot phenomenon represents a real non discovered apelike being. Bigfoot is folk lore, stories, hoaxes, cons. It is humans being fooled, and fooling others. Sometimes it's just fools. You will never prove your assertions about bigfoot. You insist people address you differently than they might others who have delusions of beasts, or creatures. Why should they? Bigfoot is no more real than mermaids. Certainly insisting they're real "because you've seen one" won't be acceptable. People claim to see all kinds of garbage. Your claims of "seeing" bigfoot is no different than this.

__________________"I've seen more Bigfoot creatures than Mountain Lions and Wolves combined here in KY." ― ChrisBFRPKY

"I've observed 1 creature eating bark from a pine tree and enjoying like it was cotton candy." ― ChrisBFRPKY

Chris, maybe you can shed some light on something. You say that skeptics are afraid or threatened by what you have witnessed? I see this, or other versions of it, quite often at the BFF. I really don't understand it. Why would anyone here be afraid of the discovery of Bigfoot? My world view would not be rocked off its hinges so to speak if someone dragged the monkey out of the bush. I would applaud it and happily chow down on crow. But afraid? Threatened by the prospect even? I can assure you that is not the case at all and I truly do not understand the accusation to be honest.

ETA: Chris, you mentioned your "work" at the primate research center voluntarily. Now you act like we're prying into your personal life by asking you to offer something to verify that claim? Why mention something like that in the first place if you were not prepared for at least a follow up question or two?

If you need to see evidence of insecurity, just look up thread, this is what's called a "pile on".

It seems most think they can simply behave in any way they choose, civil or not until a bigfoot body is brought in. Then, they'll promise to eat crow and all the World is right. My view is that one must remain civil during a discussion, that's the only way to have an intelligent conversation.

There are some here I personally booted from the BFF. Not because I didn't like them, but because they refused to follow the forum rules and as an Admin, I had no choice. That may be the larger reason for the pile on, I'm not sure.

I don't do interviews with reporters and I don't post anything online of a personal nature. If you wish to post your personal info online for all to see, be my guest, I wouldn't suggest you actually do so though. If you wanna give me a ring and have a discussion, my number is on my website.

You know why? Because you know as well as I do there is no real creature to be found. The experiences or "encounters" are made up, or someone coaxes you to believe the rattle in the bushes, the blob I saw MUST be bigfoot. How could it be anything else?

The "knowers" like yourself, are full of crap. The only denial here, is by you and by other "believers" (hint, you wouldnt have to "believe" anything if it were real) that the bigfoot phenomenon represents a real non discovered apelike being. Bigfoot is folk lore, stories, hoaxes, cons. It is humans being fooled, and fooling others. Sometimes it's just fools. You will never prove your assertions about bigfoot. You insist people address you differently than they might others who have delusions of beasts, or creatures. Why should they? Bigfoot is no more real than mermaids. Certainly insisting they're real "because you've seen one" won't be acceptable. People claim to see all kinds of garbage. Your claims of "seeing" bigfoot is no different than this.

I got a "pile on" when I first showed up here, too. I was still entrenched in the idea of bigfoot, a romantic notion shared even by noted primatologist Jane Goodall. The members here collectively tried to talk me out of my delusion.

It seemed overwhelming at the time. But I was honest in my arguments, admitted mistakes, and used this place as a home-base for research into falsifying the PG suit. Eventually I shut the door on the very possibility of the big guy even existing. I needed that pile-on, because my confirmation bias and cherry picking were out of control. Logic is ruthless, and so are all these guys.

But you know, it's not like we're all in the same room ganging up on Chris, one after the other. Each of us is an individual, responding individually to the many fallacies and mistakes Chris throws out. He needs to be taken to task, repeatedly by all indications, to disabuse him of his illusions.

__________________"I'm 'willing to admit' any fact that can be shown to be evidential and certain." -- Vortigern99

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." -- Jimi Hendrix

I agree "got monkey?" is a perfectly reasonable question. Telling a bigfoot witness "You're a liar!" is unreasonable.

When a person who claims a bigfoot experience cannot possibly be explained by other common natural phenomenon such as mundane cognitive errors, to which all human beings are subject, is that person not dishonest?

In all fairness, I don't know that dishonesty can be claimed without error when genuinely mistaken can also suffice. Stubborn adherence to the mistake displays a certain type of behaviour trait, but I can't say that is proves, without a doubt, outright dishonesty.

In all fairness, I don't know that dishonesty can be claimed without error when genuinely mistaken can also suffice. Stubborn adherence to the mistake displays a certain type of behaviour trait, but I can't say that is proves, without a doubt, outright dishonesty.

Not seriously considering other options is certainly close-minded, and of course not being honest with yourself.

I don't doubt that Chris had an agenda to try to trip up us nasty scofftics. But he could still very well actually believe that the blob he showed us was a real, live Sasquatch. My only point is that we cannot discern dishonesty from delusion. At least in my opinion.

As to whether or not he has a sock puppet account? Who knows? Who cares? I know that I do not.

ETA that being dishonest with yourself as an example of genuine deception requires a certain awareness that, again, we cannot prove. I do believe that not all Footers are dishonest. A great many are, to be sure. Especially at the higher "ranks". But the rank and file, so to speak, who have drank the kool-aid probably genuinely have convinced themselves that what they have seen or heard is evidence of a giant, hairy ape running around North America.

When a person who claims a bigfoot experience cannot possibly be explained by other common natural phenomenon such as mundane cognitive errors, to which all human beings are subject, is that person not dishonest?

It is probably the least likely explanation you can come up with. Seeing as you know.. there is no fossil record of such a creature.. no evidence for one.. and Kentucky has been ruthlessly exploited throughout the industrial era..

Not where alleged it can't. Not in WI, MI, IL, KY, TN, OK, CA. Nor in MN, SD, ND, and on and on. This monkey, this giant monkey could not have escaped harvest during the 10,000 + year exploitation of this continent. Just not possible. It would have been killed and stuffed, hide tanned for blankets and trickets, trophy-hunted for profit, and perhaps a remnant population preserved for prosperity.

These things have not occurred because there's no monkey save for in the mind of enthusiasts.

ETA: I've just spent a week in the CO Rockies looking at wildlife, tasting microbrews, and getting a bit altitude sick. Not once during all of that did I, nor could I, mistake the ass-end of a moose for six-foot monkey because I am not so disposed, whether consciously or unconsciously.

That's unfortunate because I really wish everyone could experience an encounter on their own. Not on some pay-per-trek bigfoot adventure ripoff, but experience them by doing the homework, finding a good area and making treks into that area. That is the way to solve the mystery. Even if you think there is no bigfoot, a little exercise isn't gonna hurt. Some time spent in nature is a good thing.

But nobody except bigfoot researchers has the courage and experience to drive to a state campground and trek all the way to a picnic table.

I don't doubt that Chris had an agenda to try to trip up us nasty scofftics. But he could still very well actually believe that the blob he showed us was a real, live Sasquatch. My only point is that we cannot discern dishonesty from delusion. At least in my opinion.

As to whether or not he has a sock puppet account? Who knows? Who cares? I know that I do not.

ETA that being dishonest with yourself as an example of genuine deception requires a certain awareness that, again, we cannot prove. I do believe that not all Footers are dishonest. A great many are, to be sure. Especially at the higher "ranks". But the rank and file, so to speak, who have drank the kool-aid probably genuinely have convinced themselves that what they have seen or heard is evidence of a giant, hairy ape running around North America.

It's very kind of you to point out I may not be a liar, simply delusional.

I've not presented any evidence of bigfoot here. I think it was Kitakaze that actually started posting pics and links to my website and told everyone to ask me any questions but please remain civil. lol And the fact is none of my pics or video is definitive proof of bigfoot.

That was a great spin in order to provoke a pile on, Kitakaze is like that and I like him even though we don't see eye to eye on every issue. Reviewing his posts became a favorite past time of mine on the BFF.

I agree that not all footers are honest. There are those that promote and grab handfuls of dollars as often as they can. Whether real evidence or hoaxed is at the center of that promotion.

Not all skeptics are honest either. Those quick to dismiss with certainty cannot do so logically. Those that dismiss without investigation cannot do so logically. That's not skepticisim it's denialism. That doesn't fly well with science either.

Making money by taking people on pay per trek adventures is another thorn in my side. Self proclaimed "experts", pay per entry websites, invisible bigfoot, the invisible space ship (operated by bigfoot), mind control bigfoot, vanishing bigfoot, all sour my stomach as well.

But, there are those out there trying to sort thru the BS. Exposing hoaxes, investigating sightings, never accepting monies from those who wish to go out on a trek with them. Never claiming to be an "expert". That's the kind of bigfooters I like.

We don't have to agree on all issues. Name calling is a good indicator that you've lost the argument. Just because you haven't witnessed something doesn't make it impossible that someone else has.

It is probably the least likely explanation you can come up with. Seeing as you know.. there is no fossil record of such a creature.. no evidence for one.. and Kentucky has been ruthlessly exploited throughout the industrial era..

I don't know if the fossil record contains any examples of bigfoot or not. What I've seen looked alot like Giganto. So, until we have a body on file it's gonna remain an unanswered question either way.

But nobody except bigfoot researchers has the courage and experience to drive to a state campground and trek all the way to a picnic table.

Amazing video. I saw the dark spot, yeah.

lol Now that's funny. That's the thing, alot of those guys camp out one or two weeks a year near populated areas and expect to have an encounter. I think it's safe to assume even though bigfoot is reportedly sighted in urban areas at times, they probably stay away from populations most of the time.

So Chris, by your own standards you would have to say the the owner of the below linked business is guilty of "Making money by taking people on pay per trek adventures..." and that person "... is another thorn in my side." ?

That same person is a very vocal, and from what I can tell, well respected member of the BFF who often posts supporting the PGF.

So Chris, by your own standards you would have to say the the owner of the below linked business is guilty of "Making money by taking people on pay per trek adventures..." and that person "... is another thorn in my side." ?

That same person is a very vocal, and from what I can tell, well respected member of the BFF who often posts supporting the PGF.

I've not presented any evidence of bigfoot here. I think it was Kitakaze that actually started posting pics and links to my website and told everyone to ask me any questions but please remain civil. lol And the fact is none of my pics or video is definitive proof of bigfoot.

That was a great spin in order to provoke a pile on, Kitakaze is like that and I like him even though we don't see eye to eye on every issue. Reviewing his posts became a favorite past time of mine on the BFF.

Making money by taking people on pay per trek adventures is another thorn in my side. Self proclaimed "experts", pay per entry websites, invisible bigfoot, the invisible space ship (operated by bigfoot), mind control bigfoot, vanishing bigfoot, all sour my stomach as well.

But, there are those out there trying to sort thru the BS. Exposing hoaxes, investigating sightings, never accepting monies from those who wish to go out on a trek with them. Never claiming to be an "expert". That's the kind of bigfooters I like.

We don't have to agree on all issues. Name calling is a good indicator that you've lost the argument. Just because you haven't witnessed something doesn't make it impossible that someone else has.

1. With regards to your claim that none of your evidence is definitive: On your website, do you or do you not state that "Most Researchers are very afraid when presenting any evidence to the public, they will NOT say "IT'S BIGFOOT" for fear of being wrong or for fear of an honest misidentification. This is not the case with myself." Are you or are you not making a definitive statement that the subjects in the photograph are bigfoot, or at least an unclassified animal species matching the generally accepted physical descriptions of bigfoot? If not, what exactly are you claiming with that statement?

2. With regards to your disdain for self-proclaimed experts, do you or do you not describe yourself as the "Director of Operations" for the BFRPKY and an experienced "researcher" with years of observations? If so, how is this any different than being a "self-proclaimed expert?" If not, how would you define expert, and what criteria would be looked at in determining expertise?

3. With regard to your statement that name-calling "is a good indicator that you've lost the argument," would you agree that misrepresenting or intentionally altering a person's remarks to make them look foolish would be the same thing? If so, how would you defend your comments on the BFF and here, suggesting that we should have known that a photo, never actually posted on these forums, was identified incorrectly? If not, how do you differentiate between insult through deceit, and simple name calling?

This is to dispel the rumor that the local natives hurt their gorillas.

"WCS maintains that while many gorillas are threatened by poachers, these gorillas in Kagwene have been protected by the local belief that the apes are people, and therefore should not be hunted or eaten."

1. With regards to your claim that none of your evidence is definitive: On your website, do you or do you not state that "Most Researchers are very afraid when presenting any evidence to the public, they will NOT say "IT'S BIGFOOT" for fear of being wrong or for fear of an honest misidentification. This is not the case with myself." Are you or are you not making a definitive statement that the subjects in the photograph are bigfoot, or at least an unclassified animal species matching the generally accepted physical descriptions of bigfoot? If not, what exactly are you claiming with that statement?

2. With regards to your disdain for self-proclaimed experts, do you or do you not describe yourself as the "Director of Operations" for the BFRPKY and an experienced "researcher" with years of observations? If so, how is this any different than being a "self-proclaimed expert?" If not, how would you define expert, and what criteria would be looked at in determining expertise?

3. With regard to your statement that name-calling "is a good indicator that you've lost the argument," would you agree that misrepresenting or intentionally altering a person's remarks to make them look foolish would be the same thing? If so, how would you defend your comments on the BFF and here, suggesting that we should have known that a photo, never actually posted on these forums, was identified incorrectly? If not, how do you differentiate between insult through deceit, and simple name calling?

1. Yes I know what I have seen. What I have seen are the creatures described as Bigfoot. As far as my failure to capture crisp clear images of them, how many times do I need to agree my pics and video are not of any quality? I know they're not to be considered as evidence for proof of existence. This is beating a dead horse. You got me, my pics are trash, you win.

2.A self proclaimed expert is one who announces to the World "I'm a Bigfoot expert." Just because I'm the director of the BFRP KY, doesn't make me an expert and I've never said otherwise anywhere. Who would I consider to be an expert? The person that brings in the body.

3.First of all, I don't deceive. The link was to WIKI and I'm sure you already know not all that's posted there is true. Some info there may be intentionally misleading for one reason or another. One can only speculate.

My opinion on the lack of identification of two different species by members here stands.

It was not my creation, it was theirs. The feeding frenzy further escalated the number of posts as many wanted to get their "piece" of me. Sometimes silence is golden. There is no redemption in my view, either you saw a chimp or you saw a gorilla. You are you're own judge. If you saw a chimp congratulations. If you saw a gorilla, well that makes one not so qualified to discuss primate anatomy. Can't we just get along? I really try to be good to everyone but don't tread on me.

1. Then why do you tout your photos as genuine Bigfoots on your website?

2. No, the person that brings in the body is a successful hunter. Period.

3. You don't deceive? You are so innocent in that point? Then why did you immediately go over to the BFF and tout so loudly about how the folks at JREF couldn't tell the difference? You fail to regard the fact that some of us read posts on BOTH forums. Shame on you.

1. Then why do you tout your photos as genuine Bigfoots on your website?

2. No, the person that brings in the body is a successful hunter. Period.

3. You don't deceive? You are so innocent in that point? Then why did you immediately go over to the BFF and tout so loudly about how the folks at JREF couldn't tell the difference? You fail to regard the fact that some of us read posts on BOTH forums. Shame on you.

1. Because they are. But they're of such a low quality they cannot be presented as proof of existence.

2. That could happen as well. But it is my hope someone will study a group of the hairy ones over a period of several years, get to know their habits and areas, and be there when one expires either from natural causes or accidental death. I'm not pro-kill.

3. I don't deceive. I merely state the facts and if that burns your butt, well it's still the facts. I'm happy to converse at either forum so if you have a topic I'm there as time permits. I would hope you have better topics than my pics.

1. Yes I know what I have seen. What I have seen are the creatures described as Bigfoot. As far as my failure to capture crisp clear images of them, how many times do I need to agree my pics and video are not of any quality? I know they're not to be considered as evidence for proof of existence. This is beating a dead horse. You got me, my pics are trash, you win.

2.A self proclaimed expert is one who announces to the World "I'm a Bigfoot expert." Just because I'm the director of the BFRP KY, doesn't make me an expert and I've never said otherwise anywhere. Who would I consider to be an expert? The person that brings in the body.

3.First of all, I don't deceive. The link was to WIKI and I'm sure you already know not all that's posted there is true. Some info there may be intentionally misleading for one reason or another. One can only speculate.

My opinion on the lack of identification of two different species by members here stands.

It was not my creation, it was theirs. The feeding frenzy further escalated the number of posts as many wanted to get their "piece" of me. Sometimes silence is golden. There is no redemption in my view, either you saw a chimp or you saw a gorilla. You are you're own judge. If you saw a chimp congratulations. If you saw a gorilla, well that makes one not so qualified to discuss primate anatomy. Can't we just get along? I really try to be good to everyone but don't tread on me.

1. Your answer is non-responsive.
2. Your answer is evasive. How is claiming to be an experienced researcher and director of a BF research project any different than claiming to be an expert?
3. Your dishonesty continues. Your comments imply, and are intended to imply, that the photo was actually posted on these forums, and were not simply a hyperlink that most people probably didn't follow.

By the way, I notice that you still have not provided any information about your extensive experience at the Alamogordo Primate Research Center. I'm sure that everyone here would appreciate insight into BF physiology and behavior from an experienced primatologist such as yourself, especially if we had the chance to read some of your previous work to better understand your current research.

1. Yes I know what I have seen. What I have seen are the creatures described as Bigfoot. As far as my failure to capture crisp clear images of them, how many times do I need to agree my pics and video are not of any quality? I know they're not to be considered as evidence for proof of existence. This is beating a dead horse. You got me, my pics are trash, you win.

2.A self proclaimed expert is one who announces to the World "I'm a Bigfoot expert." Just because I'm the director of the BFRP KY, doesn't make me an expert and I've never said otherwise anywhere. Who would I consider to be an expert? The person that brings in the body.

3.First of all, I don't deceive. The link was to WIKI and I'm sure you already know not all that's posted there is true. Some info there may be intentionally misleading for one reason or another. One can only speculate.

My opinion on the lack of identification of two different species by members here stands.

It was not my creation, it was theirs. The feeding frenzy further escalated the number of posts as many wanted to get their "piece" of me. Sometimes silence is golden. There is no redemption in my view, either you saw a chimp or you saw a gorilla. You are you're own judge. If you saw a chimp congratulations. If you saw a gorilla, well that makes one not so qualified to discuss primate anatomy. Can't we just get along? I really try to be good to everyone but don't tread on me.

I took a picture of the bigfoot I saw too. Check it out man. I HA bichitated em.

You come here touting "im a knower" "i saw bigfoot", there are photographs of "nothing" and then wonder why people aren't convinced and bowing to you like at the BFF? Perhaps you should consider how outlandish your claims are.

You've claimed to have spotted, and photographed a creature that does not exist according to science. A creature that is allegedly very close to an ape, or manlike creature that is between 7-10 feet tall. In Kentucky. lol.

Science can't find it, or the military, but you did. You even managed a photograph of it. Amazing.

In the year 2013, with our current technologies there is a very smart, naked beast running around that is between 7-10 feet tall and between 300-800 lbs, in enough of a population to breed, and be spotted often by humans. Some even claim to have them habituated. Yet, no one has managed to collect any evidence of them, or manage to collect a body for classification of the species. Interesting.

Every other animal that man is able to see often, in a very large range has been shot. Including other men. Bigfoots are so smart, and elusive, they run around naked, and get spotted by humans. They don't fend off intruders, or eat them. No, they exchange gifts with them. What exactly do the bigfoots do all day? Where do they sleep? Don't you think an animal that size would have to feed pretty often? Poop often?

Apparently they are all knowing, and all sensing. They won't come near you with a gun, or with a camera. They avoid trail cameras. (not curious of them like other primates) But why? Do they "know" what a camera does? How? Brain talk? Do bigfoots have computers to view the images taken by people? Do they understand this box takes pictures, but the other electronics are fine to be around?

Sureee. lol.

Anyways, your stories are ridiculous, as are your photos of "bigfoot". There is no pile on going on, you're just getting the attention because of your wild claims and nothing to back them.

Why should we feel any different than if someone came here spouting they had seen a Tyrannosaurus Rex and had a photo of a dark blob?

Wait, Tyrannosaurus Rex actually existed before! We can prove it. Might be a little more credible IMHO than claiming you have seen and photographed a bigfoot.

__________________"I've seen more Bigfoot creatures than Mountain Lions and Wolves combined here in KY." ― ChrisBFRPKY

"I've observed 1 creature eating bark from a pine tree and enjoying like it was cotton candy." ― ChrisBFRPKY