Comments on: Deconstructing the settlements discussionhttp://blogs.timesofisrael.com/deconstructing-the-settlements-discussion/
The Marketplace of IdeasTue, 03 Mar 2015 22:41:28 +0200hourly1http://wordpress.org/?v=4.1.1By: Mark Kerpinehttp://blogs.timesofisrael.com/deconstructing-the-settlements-discussion/#comment-109036
Tue, 18 Dec 2012 02:41:30 +0000http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=85886#comment-109036 Yishai Kohen His party might be bankrupt in your eyes and even the eyes of the majority of Israelis, but you and your ilk are bankrupt in the eyes of the entire world. And that's what really matters.
]]>By: Yishai Kohenhttp://blogs.timesofisrael.com/deconstructing-the-settlements-discussion/#comment-109030
Sun, 16 Dec 2012 15:09:49 +0000http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=85886#comment-109030No. What it means is that we're past the point of evacuations. Even the left (including Yosi Sarid and others) are admitting that now. The country saw what a debacle the "Disengagement" was on every level, and it isn't even discussed as a possibility.

Your position is why Labor no longer matters. You will not be in the next government- or any other in the future. Your party is bankrupt on every level, and the country knows it.

]]>By: Yishai Kohenhttp://blogs.timesofisrael.com/deconstructing-the-settlements-discussion/#comment-109034
Sun, 16 Dec 2012 15:09:49 +0000http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=85886#comment-109034No. What it means is that we're past the point of evacuations. Even the left (including Yosi Sarid and others) are admitting that now. The country saw what a debacle the "Disengagement" was on every level, and it isn't even discussed as a possibility.

Your position is why Labor no longer matters. You will not be in the next government- or any other in the future. Your party is bankrupt on every level, and the country knows it.

]]>By: Yonit Gefenhttp://blogs.timesofisrael.com/deconstructing-the-settlements-discussion/#comment-76674
Fri, 14 Dec 2012 19:19:45 +0000http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=85886#comment-76674The points made here are unlikely to have any effect on public opinion. Regardless of whether or not we should build between Ma'ale Adumim and Jersusalem, why announce it if you don't plan to do it for three years and maybe not at all? Capitulating accomplishes nothing ( witness Gaza), Actions accomplish, Talking and not doing is damaging and Netanyahu has done this regularly. Decisions about whether and when to announce what should be based on tactical advantages as a tool to get the most for Israel and not as an expression of anger.

Unfortunately, we do have to live on an earth that contains many people who are against us, who believe that Palestinians are innocent victims and we are evil Imperialists ; we do pay for these views in blood every time world opinion pressures us to stop, withdraw concede against our best interests Apart from negative reactions for no reason announcements like these tip our hand, giving out opponents a very long time to force us not to do what we say. probably succeed. We end up reinforcing perceptions that we can be pushed around needlessly.

Save announcements and negative opinion for things that really matter, like occupying the Philadelphia corridor. In the interim we need to find way to stop talking to ourselves and demonstrate that Palestinians are not poor well meaning abused innocent people who want peace and break perception that we are the barrier.

Here are some some possible approaches that nay or may not be good ideas, that will not work, and that could get people thinking: What's the problem with a few building, Arabs live in Israel. Isn't Palestine going to be a democratic state that Jews can live in? ( Of course they will say no, Ofcourse they are not democratic right now but raising these issues is the point) To Egypt. We want to help people in Gaza build a better more independent life.. all we need is a little useless Sinai land. (again of course they'll say no.. Slowly as a result of many actions like these perceptions change.

The current government in about a month has gone from kvetching that we have a right to defend ourselves (don't we?), giving in to pressure to stop in Gaza to…. we're going to build , we are going to annex Jerusalem, All of this comes across as the petulant reactions of sore losers. However we feel that is NOT the image we want.

Presdient Roosovelt of the US said. Walk softly and carry a big stick. Is out motto "March loudly and carry a twig.

It;s time to act. Interested in talking about that Say hi on Facebook.

Yonit Gefen

]]>By: Jonathan Zausmerhttp://blogs.timesofisrael.com/deconstructing-the-settlements-discussion/#comment-76672
Fri, 14 Dec 2012 18:36:55 +0000http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=85886#comment-76672Todd, thanks for this insight and the valuable information within the primers. Having said that, and with respect, I can only paraphrase from the recent Israeli film "Footnote". There is material here that is new and information that is correct. Unfortunately what is correct is not new and what is new is not entirely correct. The primer has valid useful information, but it is selective and thus conclusions are biased and hasbara boiler-plate. This is not real discussion. This is ammunition for a propaganda war with Israel denialists, which is ok, but not good for hard-talk in Israel and the Jewish world. With respect to stereotyping settlers, sure its wrong. Remember too that we stereotype Palestinians often regarding them all as Hamas which is not the reality.
The core of this discussion is do we wish to continue full tilt in the colonial venture of the greater Israel. If not, we need to find the way to stop and work on damage control. If yes, we are heading for an enlarged Israel with a Jewish minority and a kind of apartheid device to deny the Palestinians civil rights in this geographic entity.
]]>By: עמנואל שחףhttp://blogs.timesofisrael.com/deconstructing-the-settlements-discussion/#comment-76680
Fri, 14 Dec 2012 18:11:11 +0000http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=85886#comment-76680It'll just mean that evacuation will be more expensive, last longer and cause more anguish. As all problems not solved in time, this is a problem which needs to be resolved and unless you live in the settlement blocks which will be recognized eventually, you'll move if you like it or not, unless you are willing to live in the PA.
]]>By: עמנואל שחףhttp://blogs.timesofisrael.com/deconstructing-the-settlements-discussion/#comment-76678
Fri, 14 Dec 2012 18:09:14 +0000http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=85886#comment-76678 Yonatan Knickerbocker Why is his opinion meaningless if he lives in the US ? US support for Israel reamains vital and if the Jewish community in the US is divided over support for Israel, that will qucily be reflected in US policy towards Israel. You seem to forget that your co-inhabitants of this land have the very same right to live here as you have, not more but also not less. I think the ones to make a good faith offer should be us and the earlier the better since time is running out.
]]>By: Yonatan Knickerbockerhttp://blogs.timesofisrael.com/deconstructing-the-settlements-discussion/#comment-76676
Fri, 14 Dec 2012 14:51:55 +0000http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=85886#comment-76676Terrible advice. We have every right to live in the land. If the co-inhabitants of the land want to separate from us, they can feel free to make a good faith offer.

And you don't live here, so your opinion is meaningless.

]]>By: Yishai Kohenhttp://blogs.timesofisrael.com/deconstructing-the-settlements-discussion/#comment-76670
Fri, 14 Dec 2012 12:14:09 +0000http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=85886#comment-76670We are growing at a rate 3 times that of Israel as a whole, and supply can't meet demand for housing here.

This will not change. It didn't even during the worst days of the Intifada.