NOw that that abortion of a season is over, we can do what cleveland fans do best.... look forward to next year.

Looks like the Browns horrid finish will move them up high enough to get Joe Thomas, since the Lions will draft a QB (or a WR as usual) and the Raiders desperately need a QB too. Maybe that was part of Crennel and Savage's plan!

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

they will probably lose the coin toss for the third pick; why wouldn't they? They have lost just about everything else this year.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

The Browns have three huge weaknesses: QB, OL, DL. Also, they desperately need to upgrade the RB spot. And like left tackles, you have to draft dynamic running backs. Rarely are they allowed to hit free agency.

Theres very legitimate, #3/#4 pick worthy options out there at all of these areas.

Really, as it stands right now ... this is how I see things.

QB - You gotta figure Brady Quinn goes to Oak or Det with one of the first two picks. If not, you jump all over him, and theres no debate. As much as I've busted this kid and ND's balls this year, he appears to be the prototypical NFL signal caller. Big, strong, smart, great arm, makes all the throws.

If JaMarcus Russell from LSU leaves school, he will go very, very high as well. Same with Brian Brohm. Troy Smith is clearly going to be in these conversations as well.

RB - Adrian Peterson. A potential Hall of Fame back. A chance to make good on passing on Tomlinson for Gerard Warren.

OL - Joe Thomas. Your left tackle for the next ten years. Enormous, strong, dominating in the run game, great feet. As we've seen time and time again, elite LT's can only be acquired one way - with high 1st rd picks. Just Google the Pro Bowl rosters for the last ten years.

DL - Alan Branch, if he leaves, has to be the frontrunner. Can play inside or outside ... a la Seymour in the 3-4. A witch against the run, athletic enough to get to the QB. Will demand doubles. Gaines Adams from Clemson and Quentin Moses from UGA also are elite prospects.

3rd or 4th pick in the draft. I'd love to get AP and that's probably where I'm leaning.

I'm with you that if Quinn is there, you'd have to seriously consider taking him. Also, my guess if Quinn's there at 3, the phone'll be ringing off the hook. But why would 2 teams, desperately in need of a QB, pass on Quinn? Beside the phone ringing, sirens would also be going off in my head!

{WARNING: WILL ROBINSON< WARNING!}

Don't know anything about the QB kid from LSU, and Gallery has scared me of taking a tackle that high.

I like the Michigan kid but it's probably too high. Trade down to 7 or 8, Branch may be a good fit, err, well, if he wasn't from Michigan. You guys don't treat ex-Wolverine players too well in C-Town. Lots of hate!

If both AP and Quinn are gone when the Browns pick, I would be inclined to trade down maybe to the mid-first round and pick up an extra pick or two. Draft Troy Smith and then go strictly OL and DL in the second and third rounds.

Thomas concerns me as well with that high a pick. Too many washouts that I remember who were picked that high (Gallery, Tony Mandarich, etc.) Also, could Shaffer make the switch to the right side?

If both AP and Quinn are gone when the Browns pick, I would be inclined to trade down maybe to the mid-first round and pick up an extra pick or two. Draft Troy Smith and then go strictly OL and DL in the second and third rounds.

Thomas concerns me as well with that high a pick. Too many washouts that I remember who were picked that high (Gallery, Tony Mandarich, etc.) Also, could Shaffer make the switch to the right side?

This mentality is the exact reason why the Browns are one of the running jokes in the NFL. There are just as many bust RBs and QBs at the top of the draft. If the O-line is not made the draft priority then this team will continue to suck.

The left tackle is the anchor of the O-line. No left, tackle, no O-line, it is that simple. Good left tackles are not common and you are not going to find one in the 2nd and 3rd round, at least not with any consistancy. There is no point to drafting AP or Quinn to play behind that sponge of an offensive line, we might as well use that number 3 pick on a kicker (at least he wont end up on his ass after every play).

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

I will say this. I watched most of both Penn State and Wisconsins games today, and Levi Brown had a much better game than Joe Thomas.

I agree with what you are saying Furls. The Browns have been afraid to take O-lineman. They need to suck it up.

Who knows how this plays out though. Maybe Thomas and Levi both end up projecting to picks in the 7-10 area. If there is any way they can move down, and somehow fanagle a LT and Troy Smith out of this 1st rd, Id be elated.

It happens the same way every season for us Browns fans.
Step 1: get excited for another season
Step 2: realize the team still sucks
Step 3: spend months bitching because the team does nothing in the draft to help the offensive line
Step 4: the day after the season ends, start making a case for a skill player to be our first pick
Step 5: return to step 1.

I am not going to try to seperate Joe Thomas from Levi Brown from Sam Baker. That is Phil's job. What I am going to say is whomever they decide to be the BEST OFFENSIVE LINEMAN available in the draft, is a must pick.

You cannot win without running the football and protecting your QB. Your line instantly becomes better with LT of your choice, there is no question there. Move Schafer to RT. Move Tucker to RG. Draft/sign a LG. Hope Bentley comes back, but if not Fraley was not terrible when he wasn't covering for the shitty play of the guards.

Having a running back/wide receiver will not make the Browns better. Draft OL/DL (unless Troy is available in the 2nd) for 7 picks and lets see what happens.

As I was watching the steelers this year I noticed something, what makes the steelers the running team that they are is the athletic play of their guards. This got me to watching a lot more play on the offensive line in every game.

Swerb can tell you, I am a strange dude to watch the Buckeyes live with. While everyone else is watching Troy Smith throw, ginn catch and pitt run; I was saying shit like, "Did you just see that sweet twist that Richardson and Patterson just did?" or "did you see alex boone lay woodley flat?" I pay close attention to the lines and here are my dangerous generalizations:

1.) Inability to run the ball is generally, but not always an indication of poor guard play. Usually the poor guard play allows tackles to penetrate in the middle and then the bad news just snowballs from there.

2.) Inability to protect the passer is usually a problem with the tackles. Most pass rush generally comes from the outside. If you are getting substantial rush up the middle, well damn you are just fucked.

These are not 100% facts, but I use them as indicators. THis year the Browns could not run or protect the passer. The guards were/are a DISASTER, the Browns guards were beat in every way possible and I am convinced that they need a new set.

The pass pro has been bad also, but not as bad as the guard play. Guards are not as rare as tackles and therefore, the Browns must get the tackles where they are available, but make no mistatke about it, they need guards too.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

The pass pro has been bad also, but not as bad as the guard play. Guards are not as rare as tackles and therefore, the Browns must get the tackles where they are available, but make no mistatke about it, they need guards too.

The Browns have had the worst guard play in all of football for the last eight years. It has been as awful as ever this season.

I found this column online that I wrote back in August 2003. Little has changed since then.

If you draft Joe Thomas and move Shaffer to RT, it frees you up to move Tucker to RG next season if hes able to return from his bouts of depression. Tuck still has some game left, and I think a move inside to RG would be a good fit for him right now.

I will say this. I watched most of both Penn State and Wisconsins games today, and Levi Brown had a much better game than Joe Thomas.

Do you think Joe Thomas realized the Browns might have the 3rd pick in the draft and it was time for his draft status to drop a little ? I still believe D'Brickshaw went back to school because he didn't want to play in C-town. I think things would be a lot different if Ferguson was here instead of Braylon.

Does anyone think we have a chance at Steinbach ? We know he likes to boat (and drink)...we've got a lake and a lot of beer. We should have drafted him in 2003 instead of Faine.

I've been beating the drum for a LT all season. Yet, I'm not opposed to dropping down a few spots. I'd move down to 7-10 and draft Levi Brown if it gave us another 2nd round pick. Levi, Troy, and the best available DL or CB...

What about trading Andre Davis ? So many people either love or hate him in Cleveland. Leon Williams seemed to come on while starting the last few games. Would a Davis and 3rd round pick be enough to get another 2nd round pick ?

Do you think Joe Thomas realized the Browns might have the 3rd pick in the draft and it was time for his draft status to drop a little ? I still believe D'Brickshaw went back to school because he didn't want to play in C-town. I think things would be a lot different if Ferguson was here instead of Braylon.

Stop it. That is like the Tribe message boards saying we have to overpay to get free agents. The difference in $$$$ between the 3 pick and wherever he is willing to fall to would make him the dumbest guy ever. Besides, I didn't think he played all that badly (though I admit to not watching the entire game). From what I say, most times Arkansas put their speed rusher to his side and all he had to do was force him farther outside, so it doesn't look like he is dominating.

Does anyone think we have a chance at Steinbach

I do.

What about trading Andre Davis

Andre Davis would command nothing on the trade front. He is not really that good, but is someone I would consider worthwhile depth, a thing this team cannot afford to lose, so unless someone blew you away, I would keep him around.

Pup, I agree with you about getting serious in addressing the OL woes. I just don't think you have to spend the #3 pick on it.

Let's get 2 or 3 veteran FA and lets draft Rounds 2 through 7 on OL and DL.

Question and point about the OL style.

Everyone over on the watercooler desperatley wants us to sign Steinbach. Hell, I do to but only if he fits in the system we trying to run.

I thought we were building a line for a power running game. We p/u LeCharles and get rid of Faine in part for that reason. Faine was a good blocker in space, could pull with the best of them but was light at 290 lbs in the seat and was pushed into our backfield a little too often by Casey Hampton.

Why do we want Steinback to play Guard when he weighs 295lbs?

OG's for a power run game weigh upwards of 330lbs and look like Shane Andrews of the Eagles.

I asked SOBO for some help on the question of whether we can have a mix-mosh of a power right side and a fast finese left side but the thread sunk off the cooler quick because everyone had to start their own thread as why the Browns suck, why RAC sucks, why Frye sucks, etc. etc.

Can we have a OL of.....

Finese LT Steinback LG LeCharles C Power RG Power RT

I assume LeCharles will be back, if not in 07, 08. I wasn't sure if Shaffer would be a better LT or RT.

Quality tackles are not really all that prevelant in FA, IIRC. Guards can be had.

lets draft Rounds 2 through 7 on OL and DL

And take Peterson? I am a big fan of his, but I don't know how high on the list running back is for us. If it is Calvin Johnson or Brady Quinn, I don't agree with it.

About the OL styles, and I am not a guru by any means, I don't see a problem with having a "finesse" LG to go with an otherwise power line. Bentley was brought in because the Squeelers/Shitbirds play a 3-4 and have huge NT who were killing Faine. I don't think they cause the same problem for a guard.

It is a very interesting question, and eagerly await SOBO's opinion on it.

I think Shafer fits better on the face side of a QB, where there is less speed rushers, but again I am nowhere near an OL Guru.

Let's get 2 or 3 veteran FA and lets draft Rounds 2 through 7 on OL and DL.

Isnt this the same formula they try every year? It has worked well so far, I say we stick with it. That was sarcasm.

You cannot fill every hole at one time. You need to pick the most serious and fill it, right now that mess that they call an O-Line has to be the priority. The D-line blows, but the defense didnt really lose them all those games this year. They were actually, somewhat respectable.

Position players without an O-Line are worthless.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

Max Starks RFA Pittsburgh Steelers Starks is a starting tackle for a Super Bowl champion. That’s enough in itself to get some teams a little excited about the prospects of acquiring him. The fact that Starks is young, talented, and massive in stature—listed at 6’8”, 337 lbs.—just adds to the excitement pile. Another lineman that shouldn’t be going anywhere as the Steelers will not let Starks go without a fight. The best bet is that Starks will decide he wants to stay in Pittsburgh and sign an extension. If he hits the market, there will be a team or two willing to pay a big amount to entice the tackle to relocate.

Leonard Davis UFA Arizona Cardinals Davis is a massive tackle that the Cardinals can’t afford to lose to free agency, but it seems likely that they will. The Arizona offensive line is already suspect, and losing Davis would be a huge step in the wrong direction, but the team may have to let him go and find a replacement. Davis has shown the ability to simply be a wall of protection for his quarterback and while teams might not line up for the chance to sign him, anyone looking for a tackle will have him high on the list.

Mike Gandy, UFA, Buffalo Bills A relatively young starting left tackle, Gandy had been blocking for Willis McGahee over the past two seasons, and this season could go a long way in making Gandy an appealing free agent. He has talent, but isn’t considered among the league’s best linemen. However, a decent starting left tackle doesn’t just drop from the sky, so expect him to garner interest from a handful of teams, if Buffalo doesn’t re-sign him before the market opens.

Hopefully you are right, but we have not been very good at signing FA linemen. I have said many times, if you are confident that the line can be fixed (not patched, fixed) through free agency, then I will get off the O-line in the draft train.

Free agency is before the draft, correct? Then we should know if taking skill is reasonable or not. All I want is for the line to be NFL quality, I do not care how they do it.

I think the Saints revamped their line through FA, and that turned out ok. If Bentley would have played last season, I think the line as a whole would be alot better. Savage will take impact "skilled" position players. Just cuz you address the line in the 1st rd doesnt exactly mean anything. Remember Robert Gallery?

I would be fine with that, but I also think our secondary could use some help as well. I realize by getting better DL's will make them somewhat better, but what you can accomplish in FA dictates how they draft.

While it is noted the Browns have been horrible with their FA signings for the o-line.....it should also be noted that their draft history has not been too great either. So, all this "we have to go o-line with the 1st pick because we failed time after time in FA" doesn't hold a lot of weight with me. I have no warm and fuzzy feeling that if we take Joe Thomas with the 1st pick that he'll pan out given our franchise's horrible draft record.

Tony, I agree............. But IMO last years draft may be the best one since the franchise has been reborn. If Wimbley,Williams, and Jackson are all starters in the next 2yrs, it will be graded as a great draft. I just hope we dont have a Boller situation like they did in Bmore.

To me, it comes down to these four guys for the 1st pick: Joe Thomas, Adrian Peterson, Brady Quinn or JaMarcus Russell. Period.

If we draft one of Peterson/Thomas, I also want us to trade up into the 1st round to get Troy Smith.

Personally, I want Peterson. I absolutely do not want Quinn. Not only do I hate ND, but he just might be the second coming of Rick Mirer. No thanks. Russell, to me, is the better QB prospect and more a sure thing. Very Culpepper-esque.

Pool has shown promise in his 1st 2 years. Actually way ahead of where Sean Jones was after the same amount of time.
Here's hoping that year 3 for Pool and BE become breakout years.If that happens 2005 draft will grade out as a B, right now D maybe C-

I totally agree, Quinn = Mirer (awsome comparison) and Russel does remind me of Culpepper. But I personally think Russel has a better arm and accuracy. However I would rather take Peterson and somehow get Smith. Do you think they would have to trade back into the 1st round to get him? And if so, what do they give up?

I think, when all is said and done with the combines, Troy Smith will go mid-late 1st round. I don't see him going Top 10....but he could go shortly thereafter. I don't see him being around when the Browns pick in the 2nd round.....so if the Browns draft Peterson (who I want), I would have no problem trading our 2nd round pick and 1st in 2008 to move up to the teens and get Smith. Yes, another draft we avoid o-line with the top 2 picks, but Smith is just someone I think we can't pass on. The guy in a lot of ways could do for the browns what Lebron did for the Cavaliers....

JeMarcus Russell - Will need time to develop into an NFL QB. Has great size/arm, but not all there in terms of running an offense and big games. Do not be fooled by his game against ND, his numbers are no better than any other decent QB against that joke of a defense.

Brady Quinn - Plenty of arm strength. Has run a pro offense. All the makings of a great QB, but has disappeared in the biggest of games for the Domers. Does not have as much talent around him as the other top QB's in college.

Brian Brohm - I believe he will come out, and for my money is the best of the bunch. Can make all the throws and Petrino's offense is a lot to absorb. The fear of watching what happened to Bush will push him into this draft.

Troy Smith - Does everything well, except grow apperantly. Will need to be superb in combine interviews to pass any of the three ahead of him, as well not be passed by a "super-combine" guy like Drew Stanton.

Chris Leak - Still overlooked as a pro QB, for some reason. He does not fit Urban Myers system at all and would probably be the #1 pick if Steve Spurrier was at Florida. Good arm strength. Enough mobility. Very calm and relaxed in the huddle/pocket, which translates very well to the NFL.

My ranking, as far as pro QB would probably go:

1. Brohm
2. Smith
3. Quinn
4. Leak
5. Russel

With that said, this looks to be one of those groups where noone really knows until 3 years down the road and you might be better off taking the last one of them off the board.

Chris Leak - Still overlooked as a pro QB, for some reason. He does not fit Urban Myers system at all and would probably be the #1 pick if Steve Spurrier was at Florida. Good arm strength. Enough mobility. Very calm and relaxed in the huddle/pocket, which translates very well to the NFL.

Leak is HORRIBLE. You will see on Monday.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

Heard again this AM, there is no way Troy Smith is going in the 1st round, and will not measure over 5'10" at the combine.

I don't think there are a lot of ways for Troy to "move up" at the combine. Everyone knows and has seen him make all the throws while in C-Bus, everyone knows he is a charasmatic leader. Everyone knows he is fast. Might he blow someone away in an interview? Possibly. Enough for him to jump up into the top 20? Doubt it.

If Phil passes on him(in the 2nd), he might need an armed guard at his house for a couple weeks. I am not saying he should or should not take him, but I think the fans will never let him live it down if Smith goes somewhere and plays the way a lot of people in this area think he will. I guess that is why Phil makes the big bucks though.

Neither am I. I just think we are debating on who the Browns should or should not take and Phil has his own ideas.

I remember sitting around the bar at LN after the Browns took Pool. An Akron Beacon reporter was questioning why the Browns didn't take Frye in the 2nd round. I know...I know...I'm not comparing the Heismann winning Smith to the hometown MAC QB from Akron. Just stating the obvious - all we can do is speculate.