drees wrote:But even at 90% overall, you still get stuck with the minimum charge in the months you overproduce, which is about half the year.

Are you sure about that? If you consumed $120 over the course of a year, any minimum charges that accrued should be wiped out at true up. I'm not 100% sure on this, as i am only going off what I have read over at solarpaneltalk. My true up is in May, waiting to see what happens there.

100% sure, I'm looking at my SDG&E NEM Summary right now - I also true-up in May. There is a "Minimum Charge Adjustment" line which covers the months where my system generated enough energy that I had a net credit (thank to TOU rates, I generated a credit despite being a net consumer of electricity. Those periods are billed at the minimum rate of $0.17/day. My Minimum Charge Adjustment for the year will be about $31.

Now, you can have your minimum bill offset if your system generates more energy annually than you use. That energy is credited regardless at a rate of something like $0.04 / kWh. If you generate enough to offset your minimum bill, you can ask for a check.

Just FYI, the minimum charge is annual, not monthly. On my true up statement I have a Minimum Charge Adjustment credit for all the months I had a minimum charge.

philip wrote:Are you sure about that? If you consumed $120 over the course of a year, any minimum charges that accrued should be wiped out at true up. I'm not 100% sure on this, as i am only going off what I have read over at solarpaneltalk. My true up is in May, waiting to see what happens there.

100% sure, I'm looking at my SDG&E NEM Summary right now - I also true-up in May. There is a "Minimum Charge Adjustment" line which covers the months where my system generated enough energy that I had a net credit (thank to TOU rates, I generated a credit despite being a net consumer of electricity. Those periods are billed at the minimum rate of $0.17/day. My Minimum Charge Adjustment for the year will be about $31.

Now, you can have your minimum bill offset if your system generates more energy annually than you use. That energy is credited regardless at a rate of something like $0.04 / kWh. If you generate enough to offset your minimum bill, you can ask for a check.

Just FYI, the minimum charge is annual, not monthly. On my true up statement I have a Minimum Charge Adjustment credit for all the months I had a minimum charge.

Phillip,OK, I am new to this net metering stuff and won't have my first true-up bill until May, 2017, but my understanding is the same as what drees stated. From everything I've read, the daily minimum charge is just that--DAILY, not monthly or annual. It is calculated monthly based on the number of days that you do not pull any net power from the grid @ $.17/day, and is shown on your bill as a "Minimum charge adjustment." It is compounded monthly and shows as a running balance on your bill, but is only actually charged annually, at your true-up date, which I suppose could make it an "annual charge" semantically, but I don't understand how you can call it a "credit"??? Any credit would come from your excess net production from the year, which might offset the minimum daily charge if you produced enough excess kWh for the year. In the 4 months my system has been operating, I have been charged ~$10 each month, which is carried forward to the next month, and at the end of the year, I expect to owe them ~$120. The way I figure it, I will need to have overproduced 3,000 kWh for the 12-month period credited @ $0.04/kWh to not owe them anything. Am I misunderstanding this net-metering true-up deal?

TT

Tom TweedLa Jolla, CAPlowshare Media2011 SLe #1317 del. 4/1/111st bar lost at 31,953 miles 2nd bar lost at 38,685 miles 3rd bar lost at 50,711 miles 4th bar lost at 59,758 miles after 64 monthsBattery replaced at 61,307 miles.

ttweed wrote:Phillip,OK, I am new to this net metering stuff and won't have my first true-up bill until May, 2017, but my understanding is the same as what drees stated. From everything I've read, the daily minimum charge is just that--DAILY, not monthly or annual. It is calculated monthly based on the number of days that you do not pull any net power from the grid @ $.17/day, and is shown on your bill as a "Minimum charge adjustment." It is compounded monthly and shows as a running balance on your bill, but is only actually charged annually, at your true-up date, which I suppose could make it an "annual charge" semantically, but I don't understand how you can call it a "credit"??? Any credit would come from your excess net production from the year, which might offset the minimum daily charge if you produced enough excess kWh for the year. In the 4 months my system has been operating, I have been charged ~$10 each month, which is carried forward to the next month, and at the end of the year, I expect to owe them ~$120. The way I figure it, I will need to have overproduced 3,000 kWh for the 12-month period credited @ $0.04/kWh to not owe them anything. Am I misunderstanding this net-metering true-up deal?

TT

I'll explain how it all looks on my true up statement and that should clear up how it works.

In April, my statement showed $50.19 under "Minimum Charge Adjustment" on the Net Energy Metering Summary. My true up month was the next month. On this statement under the electric energy charges (it is not in the net energy section) there is a line also called "Minimum Charge Adjustment" and it shows -$50.19. All the minimum charge adjustments were credited back on the true up statement. It wasn't a credit against usage, it was a credit against accumulated minimum charges. I don't come anywhere close to getting a credit for excess production, as I only produce about 75% of my usage from PV, however the EV-TOU2 time of use tariff allows me to build up NEM credits in the summer.

According to the true up statement, I had a total $114 in electricity use for the 12 month period, which was above the minimum charge for the period which was $105 (For 3 months of the period the min charge was only $5/mo, it was raised to $10 in September 2015).

Not sure why the tariff calls it a daily charge, but it does get charged to your account balance monthly when your total electric charges are below the minimum charge for the month.

ttweed wrote:The way I figure it, I will need to have overproduced 3,000 kWh for the 12-month period credited @ $0.04/kWh to not owe them anything. Am I misunderstanding this net-metering true-up deal?

Yes, that's about right. But don't forget to take into account the California Climate Credits which are applied to your account twice a year, too. That will deduct about $35-40 from the $120 of minimum charges, so you'll only need to overproduce by about 2,000 kWh to get a $0 bill at your true up period.

philip wrote: In April, my statement showed $50.19 under "Minimum Charge Adjustment" on the Net Energy Metering Summary. My true up month was the next month. On this statement under the electric energy charges (it is not in the net energy section) there is a line also called "Minimum Charge Adjustment" and it shows -$50.19. All the minimum charge adjustments were credited back on the true up statement. It wasn't a credit against usage, it was a credit against accumulated minimum charges. I don't come anywhere close to getting a credit for excess production, as I only produce about 75% of my usage from PV, however the EV-TOU2 time of use tariff allows me to build up NEM credits in the summer.

According to the true up statement, I had a total $114 in electricity use for the 12 month period, which was above the minimum charge for the period which was $105 (For 3 months of the period the min charge was only $5/mo, it was raised to $10 in September 2015).

Not sure why the tariff calls it a daily charge, but it does get charged to your account balance monthly when your total electric charges are below the minimum charge for the month.

OK, thanks. I think I'm beginning to understand this better. What you're saying is that if you end up being a net user at the end of the year instead of a net producer, that minimum charge adjustment gets applied as a credit towards your net usage charge? That kind of makes sense, but I don't think it will apply in my case. My system was designed to offset 102% of my historical usage, and so far, it seems to be exceeding that goal. It's only been online for 4 months, but has been producing beyond our usage each month so far. And May/June/July here at the beach are probably the worst months for overcast skies (May grey, June gloom, and July junk are popular descriptions that have been coined for a reason around here). Unless we increase our usage in the future, I think we'll end up as net overproducers for the year, but we'll see. If we have no net usage for the year, there will be nothing to offset the minimum charge, no?

And thanks for reminding me about the climate change credits, drees. That will help ease the minimum charges.

TT

Tom TweedLa Jolla, CAPlowshare Media2011 SLe #1317 del. 4/1/111st bar lost at 31,953 miles 2nd bar lost at 38,685 miles 3rd bar lost at 50,711 miles 4th bar lost at 59,758 miles after 64 monthsBattery replaced at 61,307 miles.

ttweed wrote:OK, thanks. I think I'm beginning to understand this better. What you're saying is that if you end up being a net user at the end of the year instead of a net producer, that minimum charge adjustment gets applied as a credit towards your net usage charge? That kind of makes sense, but I don't think it will apply in my case. My system was designed to offset 102% of my historical usage, and so far, it seems to be exceeding that goal. It's only been online for 4 months, but has been producing beyond our usage each month so far. And May/June/July here at the beach are probably the worst months for overcast skies (May grey, June gloom, and July junk are popular descriptions that have been coined for a reason around here). Unless we increase our usage in the future, I think we'll end up as net overproducers for the year, but we'll see. If we have no net usage for the year, there will be nothing to offset the minimum charge, no?

TT

It sounds like with your over-production, you will owe the minimum charges, as you would need to purchase at least $120/year in energy to have them all refunded. If you overproduce (energy not dollars), then the approximate $.04/kWh production credit would offset minimum charges, however this isn't a cost effective use of an expensive PV system.

philip wrote: It sounds like with your over-production, you will owe the minimum charges, as you would need to purchase at least $120/year in energy to have them all refunded. If you overproduce (energy not dollars), then the approximate $.04/kWh production credit would offset minimum charges, however this isn't a cost effective use of an expensive PV system.

I have to admit that "cost effectiveness" was not a big consideration. SWSBO wanted solar, so she got solar. It's the same situation as with the Leaf. She sets her mind on something and it's going to happen, one way or another. As it ended up, we got into a group buy from Sunrun for UCSD affiliates and went with a PPA for a 5.5kW system for $13K that I figure was basically pre-paying our electricity bill for the next 20 years @ $.10/kWh. As long as the company doesn't go belly-up and/or we don't both die before 2024, it's a bargain. If we over-produce, we get $.04/kWh back for each one beyond what we use. If we die before 2024, our heirs take the hit. If there's some breakthrough in energy production that makes electricity dirt cheap before then, we lose money, maybe. I was willing to go for that and she's happy. Happy wife, happy life, as they say...

TT

Tom TweedLa Jolla, CAPlowshare Media2011 SLe #1317 del. 4/1/111st bar lost at 31,953 miles 2nd bar lost at 38,685 miles 3rd bar lost at 50,711 miles 4th bar lost at 59,758 miles after 64 monthsBattery replaced at 61,307 miles.

philip wrote:It sounds like with your over-production, you will owe the minimum charges, as you would need to purchase at least $120/year in energy to have them all refunded. If you overproduce (energy not dollars), then the approximate $.04/kWh production credit would offset minimum charges, however this isn't a cost effective use of an expensive PV system.

Well, this month was my 1-year account true-up with SDG&E. I ended up with an $8.80 credit. Net generation credits and CA Climate Credit completely cancelled out the $120 minimum charge adjustment, and gave me a net negative bill for the year. I'm a happy camper. I would have paid probably $1500-2000 for the year without solar, and my amortized cost of the system was $650 (plus maybe $250 in lost opportunity cost from paying $13K up front). It looks like free money from the sky to me.

TT

Tom TweedLa Jolla, CAPlowshare Media2011 SLe #1317 del. 4/1/111st bar lost at 31,953 miles 2nd bar lost at 38,685 miles 3rd bar lost at 50,711 miles 4th bar lost at 59,758 miles after 64 monthsBattery replaced at 61,307 miles.

ttweed wrote:Well, this month was my 1-year account true-up with SDG&E. I ended up with an $8.80 credit. Net generation credits and CA Climate Credit completely cancelled out the $120 minimum charge adjustment, and gave me a net negative bill for the year. I'm a happy camper.

TT

I'm not from California, but I am impressed!

I was wondering if you could itemize how you ended up with the $8.80 credit for the year? Also, you must be doing serious energy saving measures to have a 5.5kw system covering your usage. I'm thinking the stove/oven and water heater are gas?