It's quite an odd calculation. It combines hard figures like numbers of teen pregnancies with surveys about things like drug taking and alcohol abuse and more esoteric things like "do you generally feel healthy" and "are you happy with your relationships with friends and families.

Areas:

Material well-being
Family and peer relationships
Health and safety
Behaviour and risks
Own sense of well-being [educational]
Own sense of well-being [subjective]

We do badly on teen pregnancies, obesity, the subjective areas and drink/drugs. Very good on safety/accidental deaths though.

The government response seems to be "a lot of old data has been used, and we're better now" but they would say that.

Immortal Wombat

14-02-2007, 09:52:15

What? We provide our children with all the drink and drugs they could possibly want, and we get marked down for it?

Funko

14-02-2007, 09:53:14

Apparently being the world's top scorers in alcohol and 3rd best in marajuana abuse (after Canada and Swizerland) is not something to celebrate.

JM^3

14-02-2007, 09:54:50

If we were more lenient with Alcohol we might beat you!

JM

Mr. Bas

14-02-2007, 09:56:09

Wrong thinking. Being more lenient leads to less abuse.

JM^3

14-02-2007, 09:57:57

We didn't get rated on Subjective well being.

And we are really close to you. You do substatially worse then us in Education and we do substantially worse than you in health and safety.

JM

Funko

14-02-2007, 10:01:19

Indeed, we've tried to emulate our American overlords as well as possible.

Colon

14-02-2007, 10:07:09

Unfassbar.

MOBIUS

14-02-2007, 11:08:09

So yet more proof that education under Labour has been abysmal - as well as the fact that their child poverty 'initiatives' have completely failed as well...

Colon

14-02-2007, 11:32:20

Wunderbar!

maroule

14-02-2007, 11:41:25

they're obviously not asking the teenagers
Early sex, better music than anywhere else and easy access to drugs would make England shoot up the ranks

Gramercy Riffs

14-02-2007, 11:49:38

Kids taking drugs and drinking alcohol?

Heavens above, run for the hills..

Seriously though, who cares? And as for the subjective questions, they mean shit. Ask kids a question and they'd probably give a different answer for each day of the week.

fp

14-02-2007, 11:53:44

Whenever I fail to escape market research people I always give false and contradictory responses to their questions, just to fuck things up. I don't think I'm alone in this.

British children consider themselves the least content in the wealthy world. More than a fifth of UK youngsters said they rated their physical and mental health as poor - only Latvia, Russia and Lithuania fared worse. Girls reported lower levels of satisfaction than boys. UK youngsters were among the least likely to enjoy school or to rate their happiness levels as above average. Overall, they were the most likely to admit to feeling left out, awkward and lonely.

20th

Family & friendships

British children were found to have the worst relationships in the developed world. The UK had the second highest number of children living in single-parent families or with step-parents. Less than two-thirds of British families said they ate together regularly. Britain also came bottom of the industrialised national table when relationships among 11-15-year-olds were examined.

Last

Education

Regarded by Unicef as vital to a child's future life chances, Britain fared well when 15-year-olds' ability in reading, maths and science was assessed, ranking ninth. But the UK's overall position fell when its poor record in persuading pupils to stay on in education and training was taken into account.

17th

Health & safety

Children born in wealthy nations now enjoy unprecedented levels of health and safety. Britain found itself ranked second behind Sweden as the place where children are least likely to die in an accident. However, this good performance was marred by the UK's relatively high infant mortality and low birthweight rates. The UK also fared poorly when it came to the percentage of children aged 12 months to 23 months immunised against the major vaccine-preventable disease. It was ranked in the bottom third.

12th

Poverty & inequality

Despite being the fifth largest economy, Britain was ranked 18th for material well- being, beating only Ireland, Hungary and Poland. When it came to the number of children living in households where income was less than 50% of the national median, the UK beat only the US. British children were also among the most likely to have a jobless parent and in the bottom third for homes with fewer than 10 books.

18th

Sex, drink & drugs

The UK easily outstripped all other countries when it came to bad and risky behaviour. British children were more likely to have been drunk or had sex than those of any other country. The UK also had the second highest teenage fertility rate. British teenagers were much more likely to be involved in a fight in the past 12 months than other nationalities and more likely to have been bullied.

Last

:(

mr_G

14-02-2007, 12:12:58

DARKSTAR

MOBIUS

14-02-2007, 12:13:03

Originally posted by fp
Whenever I fail to escape market research people I always give false and contradictory responses to their questions, just to fuck things up. I don't think I'm alone in this.

So whereas kids in all the Scandinavian countries tell the truth, ours are fucking two-faced liars!:rolleyes:

MOBIUS

14-02-2007, 12:15:40

Originally posted by mr_G
DARKSTAR

OI!:mad:

How can several sentences amount to being branded a DARKSTAR!!?

AND I even cut out the waffly parts of the article as well...

I am hurt.:(

Funko

14-02-2007, 12:23:02

Only yesterday the BBC website had some piece by a psychologist saying that people in general in the UK (and US) were less happy/satisfied than other developed countries (his argument was that it was to do with our brand of capitalism, and the fact we were all aspiring for stuff all the time and not focusing on positives like personal relationships etc. that tend to keep people happy but let's ignore that).

If we take both reports at face value it's not just kids in the UK who are unhappy it's all people.

I think there are things that need addressing, certainly, but we should never put all our faith in these studies or see them as 'proof' of anything. Who decides that having 38% of 13-15 year olds having been drunk 3 or more times (in their lives) is equally important as having a very low accidental death rates etc. And of course there are cultural differences even in Europe about how people would answer subjective "How do you feel about your health/relationships" questions etc.

Saying that Labour's policies haven't worked. What if we found out that actually 15 years ago things were even worse in the UK and now we are still bottom of this table but not by as much as we were before? It also implies that other governments might have handled things better. Can't say I have much faith in any of the major parties to do better.

Sure there are problems to be addressed, in my opinion the crazy overreaction you get in Britain to any bit of good or bad news, or any 'survey' or 'evidence' no matter what the source is is one of them.

Gramercy Riffs

14-02-2007, 12:28:55

Originally posted by MOBIUS
Uh, actually it becomes a problem when we're doing it far more that the other countries. With all its knock-on effects such as teenage pregnancies, crime etc...

Yeah, kids who don't drink or take drugs never go on to commit any crime at all in later life.

Obviously not you...:rolleyes:

Cheap shot....obviously......:rolleyes:

Except again they're so wide of the mark of the other countries - so which kids are lying then, which is your implication...

Actually my implication was that a childs emotional balance is haywire, not that they are lying but nevermind.

Maybe the reason why they're doing all the sex drugs 'n' alcohol is they're so fucking miserable in the 1st place?

Maybe. Or maybe because they want to. Or maybe because they dont'. Or maybe because they have to. When the psycho analysis results for each of them come back, give me a shout.

Funko

14-02-2007, 12:30:16

Maybe they are just cooler. Which kids have the best CD collections?

Gramercy Riffs

14-02-2007, 12:33:04

Canada?

:nervous:

Funko

14-02-2007, 12:33:52

:lol:

fp

14-02-2007, 13:40:07

Originally posted by MOBIUS
So whereas kids in all the Scandinavian countries tell the truth, ours are fucking two-faced liars!:rolleyes:

What on earth are you talking about?

It merely crossed my mind that perhaps not everyone is truthful in market research surveys. I believe that if you ask a 14 year old whether or not they've got drunk or got high or got laid they might lie to you. Is that a shocking suggestion?

Scabrous Birdseed

14-02-2007, 18:17:24

Adults in Britain dislike children to a much greater extent than in other countries. That's the main explanantion I think.

Snotty

15-02-2007, 06:43:55

ours kids have more sex, drink and drugs. sounds like a winner to me

Koshko

15-02-2007, 07:23:27

Own sense of well-being [subjective]

So just by saying we are well, we can improve our rating?

Funko

15-02-2007, 08:53:41

Originally posted by Snotty
ours kids have more sex, drink and drugs. sounds like a winner to me

And the adults don't like them because they are jealous?

MattHiggs

15-02-2007, 09:12:38

And the adults don't like them because they are jealous?

:rolleyes:

So just by saying we are well, we can improve our rating?

:rolleyes:

ours kids have more sex, drink and drugs. sounds like a winner to me

:rolleyes:

Adults in Britain dislike children to a much greater extent than in other countries. That's the main explanantion I think.

:rolleyes:

What on earth are you talking about?

It merely crossed my mind that perhaps not everyone is truthful in market research surveys. I believe that if you ask a 14 year old whether or not they've got drunk or got high or got laid they might lie to you. Is that a shocking suggestion?

:rolleyes:

Uh, actually it becomes a problem when we're doing it far more that the other countries. With all its knock-on effects such as teenage pregnancies, crime etc..

:rolleyes:

:lol:

:rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

fp

15-02-2007, 09:49:06

:rolleyes:

Mr. Bas

15-02-2007, 09:55:35

:gasmaske:

Lurker the Second

15-02-2007, 15:31:37

I can't believe we didn't win. :(

Scabrous Birdseed

15-02-2007, 15:58:12

Originally posted by MattHiggs
:rolleyes:

It's true. Other countries don't shout at kids in public, smack them with gusto, treat them as hardened criminals, get annoyed at kids in restaurants, etc. etc. The british hate their kids, that's why they get traumatised.

I once read a lonely planet guide of Sweden (written by a britisher) and the number 1 complaint was that "we didn't control our kids enough". Obviously the fact that some places actually like their kids never entered his mind.

Gramercy Riffs

15-02-2007, 16:16:54

We need a catchy slogan to fix this problem.

"Kids: Keeping the Great in Great Britain"?

maroule

15-02-2007, 16:22:11

I hate, and I mean hate virulently, parents who let their kids run wild

I'm sure my imminent entry into parenthood will test this attitude, but there you go

MoSe

15-02-2007, 16:23:47

they don't let them, they gave up trying.
you instead, you will just surrender

Funko

15-02-2007, 16:26:51

Originally posted by MoSe
so, how do you weigh genes / natural inclination vs. environment / education in a child behvior?
serious curiosity

I mean, more 1% v 99% or rather 30% v 70%?

My view based on the balance of available evidence (which is pretty poor) is that I think we have all have pretty much the same genetic predispositions for behaviours so environmental triggers are probably responsible for most differences in behaviours between most people. But I'd never rule out genetic influences, especially on more extreme conditions.

If you can put that in a percentage go ahead.

MoSe

15-02-2007, 16:32:40

to add to the subject, consider how genetic twins, who share the same DNA and the same parents raising them in the same environment at the same time, can happen sometimes to develope opposite behaviors and personalities. Or is that just in the movies?

maroule

15-02-2007, 16:35:37

Originally posted by MoSe
you instead, you will just surrender

to what, resort to violence?
considering how irritable I generally am, I'll really have to learn :nervous:

or fly to Brazil....

maroule

15-02-2007, 16:38:47

Originally posted by MoSe
to add to the subject, consider how genetic twins, who share the same DNA and the same parents raising them in the same environment at the same time, can happen sometimes to develope opposite behaviors and personalities. Or is that just in the movies?

they should be raised exactly similarly but independently (separated) for the comparison to make sense (that's impossible of course)

If raised together, you can imagine plenty of distortions explaining the differences (they develop -objectively or not- different characters precisely to be taken differently and affirm their individuality etc.)

Gramercy Riffs

15-02-2007, 16:41:48

The kids are even worse in Brazil! They sniff the glue!

Lazarus and the Gimp

15-02-2007, 17:19:30

Can anyone explain how New Zealand can have a child accident/death rate about three times higher than Britains, and yet not get featured on this ranking?

Because death is fairly serious, right? Even when compared with having sex and feeling lonely.

Gramercy Riffs

15-02-2007, 17:35:42

"industrialised" countries

MOBIUS

15-02-2007, 18:15:18

'CHARACTER BUILDING IN THE UK!' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/6366255.stm)

:( :( :(

Lurker the Second

15-02-2007, 19:11:12

Originally posted by Gramercy Riffs
"industrialised" countries

:lol:

Oerdin

15-02-2007, 21:10:49

Originally posted by JM^3
How does it define it?

JM

The short anwser is "in a highly subjective way".

Fistandantilus

16-02-2007, 09:53:59

Originally posted by MOBIUS
'CHARACTER BUILDING IN THE UK!' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/6366255.stm)

:( :( :(

The court heard that when interviewed by police, one of the women said: "I didn't see any harm in toughening them up. I done the same with my own children."

:eek: Craziness.

Funko

16-02-2007, 09:55:33

I can't believe that boy didn't fight back, what a pussy.

Drekkus

16-02-2007, 10:06:32

Originally posted by MOBIUS
'CHARACTER BUILDING IN THE UK!' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/6366255.stm)

:( :( :( That's sickening. Especially when you know that these days you only need to be a tough guy on the internets

Greg W

16-02-2007, 10:52:57

oECD countries with insufficient data to be included in the overview: Australia, Iceland, Japan, luxembourg, Mexico, New Zealand,
the Slovak Republic, South Korea, Turkey.Don't know if that's a good thing or not.

Fistandantilus

16-02-2007, 11:43:14

Originally posted by Drekkus
That's sickening. Especially when you know that these days you only need to be a tough guy on the internets

You mean the Marnix vs Clara deathmatch will be held on Counterglow?

Drekkus

16-02-2007, 11:56:10

Marnix is already smiling and winking at girls. Unless Clara turns out to be a butch lesbo, I don't think he will have the urge to slap her. :D

And what I know from Red, she most probably won't be butch.

maroule

16-02-2007, 13:46:33

oh really? because Cheney saw it coming?

MOBIUS

16-02-2007, 14:18:39

Originally posted by Greg W
Don't know if that's a good thing or not.

They're the ones whose literacy rates are so poor that there aren't enough people around able to compile the stats

Lazarus and the Gimp

16-02-2007, 18:26:42

Or they killed and ate the questioner.

Drekkus

19-02-2007, 08:21:35

Originally posted by maroule
oh really? because Cheney saw it coming? What??