Subby; Chavez was good for Venezuela's poor. Not defending his methods, corruption, and anti-democratic actions, but you can't honestly say he didn't do a lot to improve the lives of the country's poor.

I don't understand this criticism of Chavez. The Venezualian people supported him because he gave them stuff. This is bad? Isn't this exactly O'Reilly's critique of Obama? Why is it horrible of O'Reilly to say it about Obama, but everyone is right to say it about Chavez?

Chavez may have done many horrible things, but giving stuff to poor people wasn't one of them.

Satanic_Hamster:Subby; Chavez was good for Venezuela's poor. Not defending his methods, corruption, and anti-democratic actions, but you can't honestly say he didn't do a lot to improve the lives of the country's poor.

But the media has always told me that 100% of the things that Hugo Chavez did were bad! Not one thing he did benefited anyone in his country, ever!

Satanic_Hamster:Subby; Chavez was good for Venezuela's poor. Not defending his methods, corruption, and anti-democratic actions, but you can't honestly say he didn't do a lot to improve the lives of the country's poor.

Of COURSE you can. Don't you know that Jimmy Carter is a Democrat and Chavez was a "liberal"? You can say anything you want because liberals are bad, QED

kingoomieiii:DamnYankees: Why is it horrible of O'Reilly to say it about Obama, but everyone is right to say it about Chavez?

Because when O'Reilly says it, he's lying.

He's not, really. He was accurately describing the situation - people voted for the candidate they thought would be better for then. He just thought it was a BAD thing, and he used pejoratives to describe the situation when it should have been described positively.

Philip Francis Queeg:We have a real crisis coming in this country. We are rapidly running out of Bogeymen. Osama, Ghaddafi, and Chavez all dead. Castro at death's door. Ahmadinejad out of office later this year.

Who will the right use to spread fear? Who will be the new face of evil?

DamnYankees:Chavez may have done many horrible things, but giving stuff to poor people wasn't one of them.

He really didn't even do that horrible of things. For his third election he gerrymandered the districts in the country so that the election was more favorable towards him and his win margin would be even larger.

I swear, there something or someone here that I could have sworn did the same thing. I wish I could put my finger on it.

Jackson Herring:Satanic_Hamster: Subby; Chavez was good for Venezuela's poor. Not defending his methods, corruption, and anti-democratic actions, but you can't honestly say he didn't do a lot to improve the lives of the country's poor.

Of COURSE you can. Don't you know that Jimmy Carter is a Democrat and Chavez was a "liberal"? You can say anything you want because liberals are bad, QED

And that's what it's all about. Reading conservative blogs today, it's "OK, Chavez died and good riddance. And now: 8 paragraphs of liberal bashing!! Hate them!! Hate them until your eyeballs bleed!!".

Satanic_Hamster:Subby; Chavez was good for Venezuela's poor. Not defending his methods, corruption, and anti-democratic actions, but you can't honestly say he didn't do a lot to improve the lives of the country's poor.

He did stop the super wealthy and foreign corporations from raping the country. His methods in doing so and quieting his opposition may not have been desirable, but if he didn't take the steps that he did, his opposition probably would have killed him a long time ago.

Another thing is that when he was ousted in a coup, the people of Venezuela demanded that he be put back into office.

DamnYankees:Philip Francis Queeg: We have a real crisis coming in this country. We are rapidly running out of Bogeymen. Osama, Ghaddafi, and Chavez all dead. Castro at death's door. Ahmadinejad out of office later this year.

Who will the right use to spread fear? Who will be the new face of evil?

[pictures.mastermarf.com image 850x629]

Why the eyebrow piercing? Whenever I see an eyebrow piercing it isn't on a scary person its on a 16 year old wanna be rebelious girl.

He refused to obey the American line on foreign policy toward Cuba and Iran?

*shrug* I agree there are reasons not to like him, or think he was wrong for Venezuela, and so on, but gawd the hyperbole about him was stupid. "Stop liking what I don't like" writ in internationally-sized jpgs

soaboutthat:DamnYankees: Philip Francis Queeg: We have a real crisis coming in this country. We are rapidly running out of Bogeymen. Osama, Ghaddafi, and Chavez all dead. Castro at death's door. Ahmadinejad out of office later this year.

Who will the right use to spread fear? Who will be the new face of evil?

[pictures.mastermarf.com image 850x629]

Why the eyebrow piercing? Whenever I see an eyebrow piercing it isn't on a scary person its on a 16 year old wanna be rebelious girl.

The report I have from Venezuelans I personally know is that Chavez's government likes to imprison opponents and kill people. They are all middle class (or more) and think he's pretty much a monster dictator. I was pretty surprised. I thought he was bad, but I didn't think this was going on to the extent they claim.

He's a communist, in the circa 1980 Soviet/Chinese sense of the word. Communism does help the poor, in the sense that nobody (circa 1980; I'm not talking about earlier purges and "Great Leap Forward" and the like that killed hundreds of millions) starves to death, but innovation and freedom are curtailed, and few people (other than a few politically connected elites) are not "upper lower class".

PC LOAD LETTER:The report I have from Venezuelans I personally know is that Chavez's government likes to imprison opponents and kill people. They are all middle class (or more) and think he's pretty much a monster dictator. I was pretty surprised. I thought he was bad, but I didn't think this was going on to the extent they claim.

They may not be the most unbiased of sources. Just think how certain people feel about Obama because he raises their taxes a little bit to pay for healthcare for the poor.

He was a charismatic leader, and he reduced poverty by 50% in his country. Good things.

But he did them by raping the democratic process in the country, building personal power base, and crapping all over his foreign policy. Getting on better terms with Panama and the Antilles is a good thing, but doing so at the expense of your biggest trading partners is folly in the long term.

If he was so bad, the people would have kicked him out long ago. If he was so good, he wouldn't have had to play games with the constitution to stay in power the way he liked. A truly great leader empowers those around him, and is able to hand off the reins to other capable hands without hanging on to the bitter end.

ongbok:He did stop the super wealthy and foreign corporations from raping the country. His methods in doing so and quieting his opposition may not have been desirable, but if he didn't take the steps that he did, his opposition probably would have killed him a long time ago.

Another thing is that when he was ousted in a coup, the people of Venezuela demanded that he be put back into office.

And you could VERY correctly claim he over did his actions against multi-national corps. But thing is, how much can you blame them? Foreign corps. have screwed over developing countries for hundreds of years. They shouldn't be shocked that occasionally people will get pissed off enough to fight back.