Because they use acoustic guitars doesn't make it folk. And there was always the odd country influence floating about; I'll Cry Instead from AHDN for example. If you want country/rock hybrids you don't have to look too much further than Bill Haley, Elvis or any number of early Rock 'n' Roll stars.

Hi Nowhere Man. Like your posts.The old folk rock number. I used to put this down to The Beatles Invented The Wheel Syndrome. But....Everything seems to hinge on whether you consider I'm A Loser folk (or folk inspired).It's definately got a Dylanesque vocal, and maybe the resurrected harmonica is a nod to him as well. And the lyric is Dylanish. I'm having a hard time finding out exactly what folk is. But I feel confident that none of these things on their own (and probably together) equal a folk song.Is it folk rock? Allmusic says: "Folk-Rock takes the simple, direct songwriting style of folk music and melds it to a prominent rock & roll backbeat. One of the most distinctive elements of folk-rock is the chiming, ringing guitar hooks, coupled with clear vocal harmonies." I think I'd have to say Im A Loser is a Dylan inspired song rather than a folk song. And I'm not sure anyway if one song makes a hybrid. Nor am I sure we can know it's the first. Who knows what's tucked way out there (if we're saying one song on an album is enough.)Ooh oooh and Elvis's GI Blues album has "Wooden Heart" on it, which is based on a (admittedly German) folk song. Does that make it a hybrid?

I wouldn't just class I'm Loser a 'folk', for me we some other country sounding offerings off Beatles For Sale: I Don't Wanna Spoil the Party, What Your'e Doing, I'll Follow the Sun.

In addition, the lyrics in I'm Loser may be Lennon's attempt at a Dylan song, and the harmonica may also be, but we must remember that Love Me Do, From Me To You, Please Please Me etc all included periods of the harmonica.

I wouldn't just class I'm Loser a 'folk', for me we some other country sounding offerings off Beatles For Sale: I Don't Wanna Spoil the Party, What Your'e Doing, I'll Follow the Sun.

In addition, the lyrics in I'm Loser may be Lennon's attempt at a Dylan song, and the harmonica may also be, but we must remember that Love Me Do, From Me To You, Please Please Me etc all included periods of the harmonica.

Yep. But country and folk aren't the same thing. As BlueMeanie Rock had been in bed with country since the dinosaurs. Howzabout Rockabilly?Lennon's low growl on I'm A Loser definately sounds Dylanish to me. Had he sung a lead vocal at such a low register before?

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BlueMeanie

Yep. But country and folk aren't the same thing. As BlueMeanie Rock had been in bed with country since the dinosaurs. Howzabout Rockabilly?Lennon's low growl on I'm A Loser definately sounds Dylanish to me. Had he sung a lead vocal at such a low register before?

It's the great misunderstanding of the term 'folk music' all over again: it's got acoustic guitars so it must be folk. Wrong. Dylan was obviously inspired by some of the great folk artists of the 20th century. But being inspired by Dylan alone does make you a folk artist.

Found this in a review of The Four Seasons Feburary 1964 album Born to Wander: "typical mid-1960s Four Seasons album with a folkier feel to the production, and a few genuine folk tunes amidst a program largely comprised of material penned or co-penned by the Seasons' Bob Gaudio. The harmonies are nice and the presentation gutsier than, say, the Kingston Trio. But it's still much more of a polite folk-pop album -- the kind you could find everywhere in 1963 -- than a folk-rock one."

A definition of folk-pop (again Allmusic):"Folk-Pop falls into two categories. Either it is folk songs with large, sweeping pop arrangements, or pop songs with intimate, acoustic-based folk arrangements. Folk-pop began to evolve in the early '60s, but it came into full force after folk-rock became a sensation in the mid-'60s. Folk-pop doesn't have ringing guitars and rougher edges of folk-rock; instead, it is softer, gentler, and more pop-oriented."

Although this constant labelling irks me, and sometimes music doesn't slip into neat catagories, and given this is all I know about folk-pop, it would seem some Beatles For Sales songs fit nicely into the second defination, so is not untypical of the music of the day.

« Last Edit: November 13, 2009, 04:19:16 PM by Kevin »

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Although this constant labelling irks me, and sometimes music doesn't slip into neat catagories, and given this is all I know about folk-pop, it would seem some Beatles For Sales songs fit nicely into the second defination, so is not untypical of the music of the day.

for a start, I've got a special feeling about this album. This was the first cassette that I hear in the earlys 80's and always love "Baby's in black".OK, the covers

Rock and roll music: One of the more exiting John/s vocals. A solid backing group and a very nice piano played for George Martin (The sleeve notes said that John and Paul play with Martin in one piano but this is a lie)

MR.Moolight: Maybe the weakest, but with a part harmony lovely

Kansas City: The same that RARM. Paul singing like a wolf and George playing an unusual rhythm guitar. The savage rock and roll of the 50s rise a high level

Words of love: This is a song with a double interpretation for me. You can say that is weak, and maybe you were right, but in the other hand, here the beatles show the ability to recreated the Holly's style.

Honey don't: It's rock and roll, baby! Just that. I love the Ringo's voice (The "honey don't" of the chorus sometimes is out of tune, but I think that that made it unique)

Everybody's trying to be my baby: Like Honey don't, in this song George can show his arsenal of rockabilly and country guitar riffs, and pay tribute to his Master, Carl Perkins.

I think that in this album the covers sound strongest that on the other albums 'cos they were a strong band.And the fact that they choose this songs is to do they favourite period of rock and roll, the 50s

Oh it was intentional as the Beatles called Beatles For Sale their Country and Western Album.

One of the reasons why the Beatles appealed to people like the Byrds and other folk acts is they incorporated British Skiffle into rock and roll so it's kind of easy to hear folk influences. The Beatles "I'm A Loser" is definitely a hybrid of folk/rock with some country influence. "I Don't Want to Spoil the Party" is basically sounds like a blue-print for the early Eagles. "Baby In Black" another country influences song was novel in it's approach to vocal harmony using intervals of 4ths and 5ths instead of the conventional 3rds and 6ths.

It's not that the Beatles or the Byrds invented folk rock but the Beatles were huge in starting the trend of folk-rock. David Crosby and Roger McGuinn got the idea of folk rock via the Beatles folk chord changes and rock and roll style. Roger McGuinn based his arpeggios 12 string sound on the fade-out of "A Hard Day's Night" though George was more of a flat-picker than Roger. You have to give credit where it's due

I guess it's all a matter of opinion, because not only do I love the covers on Beatles For Sale, but I like Beatles For Sale better than the first three albums, Help!, and either version of Let It Be. It's a great album and it's one of my favorites.

Actually, I think I'll post in that other thread about ranking albums.