Some buddies of mine went to the King of the Cage three nights ago in New Mexico and saw something that was pretty sad. The promoters had a fighter drop out last minute and had to find a replacement. They found this kid named Brian who was apparently a 'Kung Fu' stylist. He claimed to have won a lot of street fights and wanted to show his stuff for the Albuquerque crowd. He showed it alright. His was the first fight of the night, against a MMA guy named Del Hawkins (a fighter with the BJJ/Muay Thai combo. Bad news for Brian.) This guy Brian had no business being in a pro fight. Hawkins toyed with him for about 45 seconds then knocked his friggin' block off with a shin kick to the side of his head. My buddies said it was embarassing how much of a mismatch it was.

So for all you one-style, street-fighting, bad martha fokkers out there, stay away from pro MMA events. You're just going to get knocked out in front of your friends and look really stupid. Kung Fu Brian's lucky he didn't get killed trying a stunt like that.

Edited by - Vargas on December 18 2002 22:59:05

"I had once talked to Billy Conn, the boxer, about professionals versus amateurs - specifically street fighters. One had always heard rumors of champions being taken out by back-alley fighters. Conn was scornful. "Aw, it's like hitting a girl," he said. "They're nothing."

According to the KOTC website, it was a KO by 'round kick', so I'm assuming it was straight from the floor to the guys melon a la Gilbert Yvel vs. Gary Goodridge in Pride.

Oh yeah, the word from our head guy is that the KOTC people found this guy at a bowling alley. WTF?

"I had once talked to Billy Conn, the boxer, about professionals versus amateurs - specifically street fighters. One had always heard rumors of champions being taken out by back-alley fighters. Conn was scornful. "Aw, it's like hitting a girl," he said. "They're nothing."

feel sorry for biran - you can see a MMA vs KUngFu video on this very site (if you didn't know) in the videos section. Also, emin boztepe v cheung video, were two Kung FU stylists eventually wrestle in a street-like fight.

Thanks for the infomration Vargas - it just comfirms my beliefs about TMA vs modern [Sport] Fighting.

Also, anyone who doesn't believe him, just look up the King of The Cage match he went to.

"Training = pain." - I said that.

PizDoff when drunk: "I'm actually MOST pissed that my target for the evening got drink...then I gave her my Bullshido Canada hoodie like a gentleman because she was outside with not much on...did I mention she barfed twice when I got our jackets...steaming barf is kinda fascinating..." - PizDoff.

Blade Windu, the fight in this website proves nothing between the MMA guy and the Kung Fu Guy( if he actually was one). Well, the only thing it does prove is that the MMA was much much better. It was nothing to do with the style.

I think the main difference in general is that MMA guys do MMA for a living. Were as most traditional stylists unfortunately have to support their familys and work in a non martial art profession. Its just a question of time spent training. Just IMHO ofcourse.

regards,

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered,
those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.
Thus the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." -O Sensei Ueshiba

For all you guys who think that style doesn't matter, go ahead and do katas and forms and practice absolutely no ground-fighting. Go ahead with horse stances and rear spinning heel kicks. No skin off my nose. Just don't be surprised at the result.

Style matters. Technique matters. If you learn nothing else from the early UFCs, that should be the lesson. Everyone in those tournaments were 'tough guys'. However, some of them had the right training. Some didn't. Believe me, I'm not a Gracie fan by any means. I've competed against too many of their guys for that. However, I'll give credit where credit is due. Royce proved that size, speed, strength, toughness, all that **** is secondary to using the right moves. Every swinging dick in mixed martial arts trains in ground-fighting and submissions. Yes, they also train in kickboxing, wrestling, Muay Thai and anything else that has merit. But BJJ/submission grappling is the foundation that MMA is built on and for a good reason.

I've actually read some of those stupid threads about 'killer instinct' and 'the right stuff'. Apparently, it's a break-through discovery that grit and determination are crucial ingredients in unarmed fighting. Fighters need to be tough. That should go without saying. You might as well state that water needs to be wet. Here's some advice. If you find yourself training in a dojo and you feel you're the toughest mofo in the building, get up and leave. You're obviously training with a bunch of pussies.

"I had once talked to Billy Conn, the boxer, about professionals versus amateurs - specifically street fighters. One had always heard rumors of champions being taken out by back-alley fighters. Conn was scornful. "Aw, it's like hitting a girl," he said. "They're nothing."

Alright, obviously if you don't TRAIN to fight, you can't learn to fight. It's that simple. However, I don't think ANY originator of ANY art ever said "ONLY LEARN WHAT I HAVE TAUGHT, BECAUSE THAT'S ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW!" No Ancient Wing Chun master probably ever said "don't learn to grapple!" The division we see today is the result of politics, nothing more.

Personally, I don't think style matters THAT much once you expand your training a bit. The style is simply your tools, it's much more important HOW you use them. If you know them well, and can apply them efficiently, you'll do fine against other styles. Ultimately, styles shouldn't be a limitation, they should be a BASIS.

"You sure talk a lot. Are you going to train at all tonight, or just stand there the whole time?" -Sempai Dale

Regards,
CrimsonTiger

"Na'h, they should go to old school rules.
One guy gets sword and sheild, the other gets a net and a trident.
Lions eat christians between rounds." - Strong Machine