News:

Good day, denizens of OC.net! Per our tradition, the forum will shut down for Clean Monday, beginning around 9pm Sunday evening (2/18) and ending around 9pm Monday evening (2/19). In the spirit of the coming Forgiveness Sunday, I ask you to forgive me for the sins I have committed against you. At the end of Great and Holy Week, the Forum will also shut down for Holy Friday and Holy Saturday (times TBA).

Also, the Pope did indeed try to prevent the siege of the Byzantines numerous times and even threatened the Crusaders with excommunication, all to no avail since some of the corrupted clergy and leadership censored the papal letters from reaching the Crusaders forbidding them to attack the Orthodox city.

He did create Latin Patriarchate of Constantinople.

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This dark pe riod in the Crusades should not lessen the fact that they did liberate Jerusalem from the infidel

If you're referring to me. what "arguments"? The only thing I asked for was the call for solidarity and concern for Eastern Christians, especially in Syria right now and maybe some insight from Orthodox about the situation going on there. Personally, I believe Western gov'ts intervening there right now would be disastrous for Christians, but the Western Church should support them against the radical Muslims any which way we can.

Is that so bad?

And some of these Arab "Christians" on here despise me and are blatantly aggressive for the very fact that I'm Western European and Latin Catholic. Now, you tell me, who's being "militant" here?

Don't you think that if you want to help Eastern Christians you should hear what help do they need from them and not decide it by yourself ignoring their needs?

Mike, the only thing i'm trying to ignore is the rage on here from OC at Rome from things a thousand years ago.

Obviously people like to keep brininging up ancient history to justify their hatred of the West.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?"No one is paying attention to your post reports"Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

As a Latin Catholic in the West, I am not proud of that part of our history but like the article points out, the Byzantines had a share in their fate through their own treachery, especially amongst the ruling class, they also seem to cozy up and use the Muslims as allies when it's convenient for them.

Shouldn't have pillaged Greek territory in the first and second crusade then. Wasn't John the Oxite, Patriarch of Antioch kicked out of town by your heroic crusaders?

I think the Crusaders were heroic. Absolutely. Did they commit atrocities by modern standards, sure, no doubt. So did everyone else practicing warfare at that time. The Crusaders did no more and no less than what everyone else did. Imagine a world with no Crusaders. Islam quickly finishes off what is left of the Eastern Empire. With no unifying call for Crusade to unite the nobles of the west to defend Christianity Islam keeps pushing. Steam rolls right over all of Europe. If no one is strong enough to stop them they do not stop. Why should they? Once they have conquered all of the Christian lands they consolidate their gains by destroying 99.99% of Christianity and this forum does not exist.

I can't think of any place on the globe that once been dominated by Islam has ever returned otherwise, especially back to Christianity with the possible exception of Cordoba in Roman Catholic Spain.

See those crescents under the Cross?

Not sure what you're getting at here, most of them lands according to the map is still dominated by Islam with the exception of the Balkans which it never really took root thanks to the firece resistance of those Eastern Europeans there.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?"No one is paying attention to your post reports"Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

I can't think of any place on the globe that once been dominated by Islam has ever returned otherwise, especially back to Christianity with the possible exception of Cordoba in Roman Catholic Spain.

This map proves my point.

Where are the Mongols today?

Yet Islam thrives.

There's something wrong with this map. There's no way that finger of the Mongol Empire could have extended across Moldova and Romania at the dates given. The principality of Moldova (which encompassed all of modern Moldova and Bucovina within Romania plus the Republic of Moldova and Northen Bucovina and southern Bessarabia in the Ukraine) was entirely independent at that time as it was ruled by St. Stephen the Great from 1457 to 1504. He did fight battles against the Tartars (Mongols) but was certainly not subject to them.

Sorry for the aside but if you're going to pull an ialmisry and try to take the cartographer's route to forum victory, you could at least pick an accurate map.

James

Logged

We owe greater gratitude to those who humble us, wrong us, and douse us with venom, than to those who nurse us with honour and sweet words, or feed us with tasty food and confections, for bile is the best medicine for our soul. - Elder Paisios of Mount Athos

BEIRUT (Reuters) - Pope Benedict appealed on Friday for a halt to the flow of arms into Syria, saying it would help end a civil war that has killed many thousands of people and which Christians fear could bring Islamists to power.

(can't post link for some reason, but article can be found on Yahoo's main page)

The Mongols that remained in Asia Minor eventually converted to Islam and became the Ottomans.

Um, no. Not even close.

Prove it.

The burden of proof rests with you to demonstrate your novel theory that the Ottoman Turks are descended from the Mongols.

Not all of them but it is common knowledge that a significant remnant remained what is now modern Turkey after they converted to Islam and the Empire faded with the death of the Khans. I will research more when I have the time and get back to you on this. But this is not the focus of this thread.

Christian communities in Aleppo have taken up arms and formed their own militias for the first time, the Daily Telegraph can disclose.

The Christian community has tried to avoid taking sides in the civil war. In Aleppo, it recruited vigilantes from the Boy Scout movement to protect churches, but as the war moved into the city and spread across its suburbs they have begun to accept weapons from the Syrian army and joined forces with Armenian groups to repel opposition guerrillas.

ANSAmed) - Vatican City, 31 October - The last Christian who was in the centre of Homs was killed, after the civilian population was evacuated due to widespread fighting.

According to the Vatican's Fides news agency, 84-year-old Elias Mansour, a Greek-Orthodox Christian did not want to leave his home on Wadi Sayeh street - even though he knew his life was in danger - because he had to take care of his handicapped son, Adnane.

ANSAmed) - Vatican City, 31 October - The last Christian who was in the centre of Homs was killed, after the civilian population was evacuated due to widespread fighting.

According to the Vatican's Fides news agency, 84-year-old Elias Mansour, a Greek-Orthodox Christian did not want to leave his home on Wadi Sayeh street - even though he knew his life was in danger - because he had to take care of his handicapped son, Adnane.

ANSAmed) - Vatican City, 31 October - The last Christian who was in the centre of Homs was killed, after the civilian population was evacuated due to widespread fighting.

According to the Vatican's Fides news agency, 84-year-old Elias Mansour, a Greek-Orthodox Christian did not want to leave his home on Wadi Sayeh street - even though he knew his life was in danger - because he had to take care of his handicapped son, Adnane.

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?"No one is paying attention to your post reports"Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

As a Latin Catholic in the West, I am not proud of that part of our history but like the article points out, the Byzantines had a share in their fate through their own treachery, especially amongst the ruling class, they also seem to cozy up and use the Muslims as allies when it's convenient for them.

Shouldn't have pillaged Greek territory in the first and second crusade then. Wasn't John the Oxite, Patriarch of Antioch kicked out of town by your heroic crusaders?

I think the Crusaders were heroic. Absolutely. Did they commit atrocities by modern standards, sure, no doubt. So did everyone else practicing warfare at that time. The Crusaders did no more and no less than what everyone else did. Imagine a world with no Crusaders. Islam quickly finishes off what is left of the Eastern Empire. With no unifying call for Crusade to unite the nobles of the west to defend Christianity Islam keeps pushing. Steam rolls right over all of Europe. If no one is strong enough to stop them they do not stop. Why should they? Once they have conquered all of the Christian lands they consolidate their gains by destroying 99.99% of Christianity and this forum does not exist.

That's just pathetic fantasy. If anything the crusades hasted the demise of the Eastern Empire. ening

Not a fantasy at all. The Eastern Empire was in total collapse.

looks pretty big and stable for being "in total collapse."

Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth