maggoo:A civilized society recognizes that even despicable criminals have rights. Just because no one will actually give a damn about this guy, it doesn't mean it is acceptable to have convicts torturing other convicts.

Unless you are ok not living in a civilized society.

I don't live in jail. I'm OK with it not being that civilized. QQ more for the kiddy diddler/killer

Warlordtrooper:He lost his job at a supermarket, moved in with his mother and hadn't been able to find other work after his arrest, according to court documents.

So can we actually have an honest discussion about the unintended consequences of things like sex offender registries and how it can lead to more crime or should I just surrender to the fact that I'll be called a rape apologists for bringing up flaws in the system.

I don't think it's a problem that exists just to those on the sex offender list. But part of a bigger problem. I have a neighbor who is a convicted felon for possession of pot. That's his only crime. He hasn't had a job since the conviction because employers don't want to hire felons.

Things like felonies and registration lists manage to continually punish people long after they've served their time, and either abolish the lists or say that a person who's committed a crime on X nature must forever be in prison. Not this bullshiat half way punishment of "You're free, but you have to remain on a list and subject to visitations, not being able to live in certain areas, etc, etc, etc..."

whistleridge:maggoo: A civilized society recognizes that even despicable criminals have rights. Just because no one will actually give a damn about this guy, it doesn't mean it is acceptable to have convicts torturing other convicts.

Unless you are ok not living in a civilized society.

I came to say this. Very well put.

I hate that excuse. That's YOUR version of a civilized society.

I don't particularly care if he is tortured, so long as he is proved guilty first. He's no longer a part of society nor the benefits of it; he gave up those rights when he killed/raped out of cold blood.

Digitalstrange:I don't live in jail. I'm OK with it not being that civilized. QQ more for the kiddy diddler/killer.

I find it curious how people in western democracies are ALL about due process and protection of rights, until someone goes to jail for something they personally don't care for, and then it's RELEASE THE RAPE TRAIN!!

Because no police officer, judge, jury, or DA has EVER gotten it wrong. There's just no question, so the extra-judicial punishment that is not just a violation of the law but is also a violation of their civil and human rights becomes not just acceptable, but desired, right?

Great Janitor:nmemkha: Deserved or not, its not advantageous to a free and fair society to allow the police to dispense arbitrary vigilante justice.

According to TFA, it wasn't the police who did it, it was apparently fellow prisoners. Though there does seem to be an issue with them allowing him into the public holding cell.

He raped a girl and murdered her mother. Don't guard this farker, don't put any effort into protecting him. Let his fellow inmates bound him and rape him as he did to his victim. That's the least he deserves.

The sad part is that this statement was done without any sense of Irony by Great Janitor. Saying rape is a horrible crime that nobody deserves then wishing it upon somebody. But of course the Internet tough guys have to have their blood lust filled.

Warlordtrooper:He lost his job at a supermarket, moved in with his mother and hadn't been able to find other work after his arrest, according to court documents.

So can we actually have an honest discussion about the unintended consequences of things like sex offender registries and how it can lead to more crime or should I just surrender to the fact that I'll be called a rape apologists for bringing up flaws in the system.

I could get behind you on that if his latest crime had been a bank robbery or something of the sort, not murdering a woman and raping her daughter. His not being able to find work should have no bearing on his inability to not kill and rape.

Lollipop165:I hate that excuse. That's YOUR version of a civilized society.

I don't particularly care if he is tortured, so long as he is proved guilty first. He's no longer a part of society nor the benefits of it; he gave up those rights when he killed/raped out of cold blood.

Warlordtrooper:Great Janitor: nmemkha: Deserved or not, its not advantageous to a free and fair society to allow the police to dispense arbitrary vigilante justice.

According to TFA, it wasn't the police who did it, it was apparently fellow prisoners. Though there does seem to be an issue with them allowing him into the public holding cell.

He raped a girl and murdered her mother. Don't guard this farker, don't put any effort into protecting him. Let his fellow inmates bound him and rape him as he did to his victim. That's the least he deserves.

The sad part is that this statement was done without any sense of Irony by Great Janitor. Saying rape is a horrible crime that nobody deserves then wishing it upon somebody. But of course the Internet tough guys have to have their blood lust filled.

It's not blood lust on my part. It's that he took two people, a mother and daughter, bound them both. As the mother watched (I assume, but definitely within ear shot) he raped the girl, then with the girl still in the car, he stabbed the mother. How does this man deserve anything other than to have the same done to him? Shouldn't he get the chance to experience what he put his victims through?

Lollipop165:I don't particularly care if he is tortured, so long as he is proved guilty first. He's no longer a part of society nor the benefits of it; he gave up those rights when he killed/raped out of cold blood.

In your realm, would the conviction of any crime result in a similar legal banishment, or only the more grievous crimes?

/ You were convicted of jaywalking... anyone may kill you with impunity!

Warlordtrooper:He lost his job at a supermarket, moved in with his mother and hadn't been able to find other work after his arrest, according to court documents.

So can we actually have an honest discussion about the unintended consequences of things like sex offender registries and how it can lead to more crime or should I just surrender to the fact that I'll be called a rape apologists for bringing up flaws in the system.

Yes we can, but it should be in the broader context of prisoner reform...not one sick dude no one in their right mind feels any sympathy for.

Caffandtranqs:Warlordtrooper: He lost his job at a supermarket, moved in with his mother and hadn't been able to find other work after his arrest, according to court documents.

So can we actually have an honest discussion about the unintended consequences of things like sex offender registries and how it can lead to more crime or should I just surrender to the fact that I'll be called a rape apologists for bringing up flaws in the system.

I could get behind you on that if his latest crime had been a bank robbery or something of the sort, not murdering a woman and raping her daughter. His not being able to find work should have no bearing on his inability to not kill and rape.

If you push a person far enough they will do anything they have to. I'm not saying that murder and rape is justified because its not. But these people on these lists have no options. They can't support themselves because they can't get a job they have no friends and so they get pissed off and guess what they do. They lash out back at the society that shuns them. Its quite possible that if somebody had given this man a job, a 10 year old would have never been raped and her mother would still be alive.

Pretending a problem doesn't exists doesn't make it go away. I'm interesting in fixing the problem not just ignoring it.

Great Janitor:It's not blood lust on my part. It's that he took two people, a mother and daughter, bound them both. As the mother watched (I assume, but definitely within ear shot) he raped the girl, then with the girl still in the car, he stabbed the mother. How does this man deserve anything other than to have the same done to him? Shouldn't he get the chance to experience what he put his victims through?

That is not how justice works. That is how vengeance works and there is a huge difference between the two.

maggoo:A civilized society recognizes that even despicable criminals have rights. Just because no one will actually give a damn about this guy, it doesn't mean it is acceptable to have convicts torturing other convicts.

FarkinHostile:Lollipop165: I hate that excuse. That's YOUR version of a civilized society.

I don't particularly care if he is tortured, so long as he is proved guilty first. He's no longer a part of society nor the benefits of it; he gave up those rights when he killed/raped out of cold blood.

"He who does battle with monsters needs to watch out lest he in the process become a monster himself. And if you stare too long into the abyss, the abyss will stare right back at you. "

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using his intelligence; he is just using his memory" - Da Vinci

The_Gallant_Gallstone:Lollipop165: I don't particularly care if he is tortured, so long as he is proved guilty first. He's no longer a part of society nor the benefits of it; he gave up those rights when he killed/raped out of cold blood.

In your realm, would the conviction of any crime result in a similar legal banishment, or only the more grievous crimes?

/ You were convicted of jaywalking... anyone may kill you with impunity!

Let's get off the slippery slope shall we? Jaywalking is not the same as carjacking someone with the intent of murdering a mother and raping a child.

How do you catch a guy with 100GB of child porn on his computer, and then set him free on society? fark that. Put a bullet in his farking head. If you wouldn't be willing to leave someone alone in a room with your kid, don't give them the opportunity to harm other children.

Warlordtrooper:Caffandtranqs: Warlordtrooper: If you push a person far enough they will do anything they have to. I'm not saying that murder and rape is justified because its not. But these people on these lists have no options. They can't support themselves because they can't get a job they have no friends and so they get pissed off and guess what they do. They lash out back at the society that shuns them. Its quite possible that if somebody had given this man a job, a 10 year old would have never been raped and her mother would still be alive.

Pretending a problem doesn't exists doesn't make it go away. I'm interesting in fixing the problem not just ignoring it.

The sex offender registry is a good example of our society's unwillingness to properly deal with mental health issues. Hey, this guy wants to diddle kids, throw him on this list that publicly shames him.

You make a valid point but, to me, it seems to be part of a bigger problem.

Great Janitor:The common myth is that an insanity plea will get you off. The reality, however, is that an insanity plea just sends you to a mental ward, a place that can actually be worse than prison.

Also, there is no set date where you can get out. And since it's relatively difficult to even get a court to accept an insanity plea, the attorneys have to work hard to convince everyone their client is insane. As such, the sentence is often longer, or life.

Great Janitor:Warlordtrooper: Great Janitor: nmemkha: Deserved or not, its not advantageous to a free and fair society to allow the police to dispense arbitrary vigilante justice.

According to TFA, it wasn't the police who did it, it was apparently fellow prisoners. Though there does seem to be an issue with them allowing him into the public holding cell.

He raped a girl and murdered her mother. Don't guard this farker, don't put any effort into protecting him. Let his fellow inmates bound him and rape him as he did to his victim. That's the least he deserves.

The sad part is that this statement was done without any sense of Irony by Great Janitor. Saying rape is a horrible crime that nobody deserves then wishing it upon somebody. But of course the Internet tough guys have to have their blood lust filled.

It's not blood lust on my part. It's that he took two people, a mother and daughter, bound them both. As the mother watched (I assume, but definitely within ear shot) he raped the girl, then with the girl still in the car, he stabbed the mother. How does this man deserve anything other than to have the same done to him? Shouldn't he get the chance to experience what he put his victims through?

Plenty of people deserve torture and unending horrors.

But who deserves to have a torturer in their mirror? Or even next door?

maggoo:A civilized society recognizes that even despicable criminals have rights. Just because no one will actually give a damn about this guy, it doesn't mean it is acceptable to have convicts torturing other convicts.

Unless you are ok not living in a civilized society.

He was in jail. A place where they put people who have demonstrated an inability to follow the rules of a civilized society. I'm fine living in a civilized society, but then again, I don't kill women and rape little girls.

Warlordtrooper:Caffandtranqs: Warlordtrooper: He lost his job at a supermarket, moved in with his mother and hadn't been able to find other work after his arrest, according to court documents.

So can we actually have an honest discussion about the unintended consequences of things like sex offender registries and how it can lead to more crime or should I just surrender to the fact that I'll be called a rape apologists for bringing up flaws in the system.

I could get behind you on that if his latest crime had been a bank robbery or something of the sort, not murdering a woman and raping her daughter. His not being able to find work should have no bearing on his inability to not kill and rape.

If you push a person far enough they will do anything they have to. I'm not saying that murder and rape is justified because its not. But these people on these lists have no options. They can't support themselves because they can't get a job they have no friends and so they get pissed off and guess what they do. They lash out back at the society that shuns them. Its quite possible that if somebody had given this man a job, a 10 year old would have never been raped and her mother would still be alive.

Pretending a problem doesn't exists doesn't make it go away. I'm interesting in fixing the problem not just ignoring it.

Great Janitor: It's not blood lust on my part. It's that he took two people, a mother and daughter, bound them both. As the mother watched (I assume, but definitely within ear shot) he raped the girl, then with the girl still in the car, he stabbed the mother. How does this man deserve anything other than to have the same done to him? Shouldn't he get the chance to experience what he put his victims through?

That is not how justice works. That is how vengeance works and there is a huge difference between the two.

By that reasoning, it would have made more sense for the guy to go on a mass murdering spree if he was so pissed off at society. He didn't. He's a farking pedophile who broke his ankle bracelet off so he could go molest some kid. He probably killed mom because she was standing in the way of him doing it. There are insatiably sick predators in this world. Accept it.

serpent_sky:Great Janitor: The common myth is that an insanity plea will get you off. The reality, however, is that an insanity plea just sends you to a mental ward, a place that can actually be worse than prison.

Also, there is no set date where you can get out. And since it's relatively difficult to even get a court to accept an insanity plea, the attorneys have to work hard to convince everyone their client is insane. As such, the sentence is often longer, or life.

I was under the impression that the point of an insanity plea is that the only other option is life in jail, no parole. I could be totally wrong, but isn't that why Charlie Manson keeps on getting parole hearings? (of course no one will let him out but that's another story)

Caffandtranqs:I could get behind you on that if his latest crime had been a bank robbery or something of the sort, not murdering a woman and raping her daughter.

The word "allegedly" is important. Keep in mind, for this type of crime, he falls into the category of "usual suspects". He'd probably be arrested after that crime even if there was nothing else to tie him to the event besides his history.

Warlordtrooper:If you push a person far enough they will do anything they have to. I'm not saying that murder and rape is justified because its not. But these people on these lists have no options. They can't support themselves because they can't get a job they have no friends and so they get pissed off and guess what they do. They lash out back at the society that shuns them. Its quite possible that if somebody had given this man a job, a 10 year old would have never been raped and her mother would still be alive.

He wasn't on the lists yet. He got arrested for having over 100 gigs of child porn. THEN he lost his job. Then he murdered the mom, and raped the girl.

You know, I can understand that some of the people on the list get screwed because of it, but this guy's a monster.As a parent, I don't want him tortured. I just want him dead.