I just finished a 5 week run today with a couple of set-backs, but I did gain 10lbs and a ton of strength. It would've been more but I caught a cold and was out for 3 days, then I had family fly into town so I was basically out of the gym for almost the entire 4th week and not eating right. I start tamox today and as suggested above, I think you should use it too.

What you really need to keep in mind though, is that you're way under weight to start something like this. 157lbs @ 6' is pretty darn skinny any which way you look at it. Maybe you should focus more on your diet and training before you delve into the world of hormones. Just eat 5000 cals per day and train heavy and you should easily pack on weight without the use of hormones.

I just finished a 5 week run today with a couple of set-backs, but I did gain 10lbs and a ton of strength. It would've been more but I caught a cold and was out for 3 days, then I had family fly into town so I was basically out of the gym for almost the entire 4th week and not eating right. I start tamox today and as suggested above, I think you should use it too.

What you really need to keep in mind though, is that you're way under weight to start something like this. 157lbs @ 6' is pretty darn skinny any which way you look at it. Maybe you should focus more on your diet and training before you delve into the world of hormones. Just eat 5000 cals per day and train heavy and you should easily pack on weight without the use of hormones.

You took dieselbolan too ?

And regarding the being underweight, what can happen ? The only thing ive taken before is test booster Super Test and i liked it alot, i was craving the gym day and night, got a little size and strength..

I mean i dont plan on using ph through out my life its just something i want to give a try to but im really interested in findin out what negative repercussions it can have on me for being a little skinnier than the average person who decides to take a ph.. I want to be really informed before i start the cycle ya know.

And regarding the being underweight, what can happen ? The only thing ive taken before is test booster Super Test and i liked it alot, i was craving the gym day and night, got a little size and strength..

I mean i dont plan on using ph through out my life its just something i want to give a try to but im really interested in findin out what negative repercussions it can have on me for being a little skinnier than the average person who decides to take a ph.. I want to be really informed before i start the cycle ya know.

I don't think there is harm in taking a ph due to weight. The point is at your height/weight it proves you don't have the discipline/mindset to seek out unnatural enhancement. Dialing your diet and training will lead to immediate gains and increased chance for success with future cycling

And regarding the being underweight, what can happen ? The only thing ive taken before is test booster Super Test and i liked it alot, i was craving the gym day and night, got a little size and strength..

I mean i dont plan on using ph through out my life its just something i want to give a try to but im really interested in findin out what negative repercussions it can have on me for being a little skinnier than the average person who decides to take a ph.. I want to be really informed before i start the cycle ya know.

You know that dieselbolan is a STEROID. And its not just a designer steroid but has a pro hormone in it LMG. It is two superdrol molecules which means its extremely strong I hear people compare it to D-Bol. Just research this topic a little bit it will be hard on the liver because its di methylated, cholestoral, and be very suppresive.

You probably have a lot of growing you can do naturally still and you NEED to have some muscle base before you do ph's think of it as building a house on sand, no you need a foundation. You should probably not take diesel your first time for many reasons but mainly because you might really hurt yourself and theres no going back after you take such a harsh compound.

You know that dieselbolan is a STEROID. And its not just a designer steroid but has a pro hormone in it LMG. It is two superdrol molecules which means its extremely strong I hear people compare it to D-Bol. Just research this topic a little bit it will be hard on the liver because its di methylated, cholestoral, and be very suppresive.

You probably have a lot of growing you can do naturally still and you NEED to have some muscle base before you do ph's think of it as building a house on sand, no you need a foundation. You should probably not take diesel your first time for many reasons but mainly because you might really hurt yourself and theres no going back after you take such a harsh compound.

I appreciate your input because i really want to hear both sides of the coin ya know.. Ive grown about 20lbs since i started working out but i want to be somewhere in the 185lb range ideally. Will a good pct, be something that will help me or even debunk the possibility of hurting body ?

I appreciate your input because i really want to hear both sides of the coin ya know.. Ive grown about 20lbs since i started working out but i want to be somewhere in the 185lb range ideally. Will a good pct, be something that will help me or even debunk the possibility of hurting body ?

Well I'm glad to hear that and 20 pounds is a good start but you seem to be jumping in to this without a proper education so and I am not trying to be critical because I was just told this too, you are still below the ideal weight at ur height for a cycle. It makes it better to gain as much as you can before a cycle so you keep the gains and let your shell grow naturally to its fullest.

You should up your calories i think its 18 calories per pound of body weight and you have to maintain the weight by adding calories. So after gaining 10 lbs you add another 180, if that seems low then add more. And 3600 cals extra equals a lb of body mass, but your body only uses so much at once the rest gets stored as fat which we like to avoid as much as possible.

But to answer your question you deffinetly want a good pct. If you didn't you would probably lose everything you gained and be on hormone replacement therapy for the rest of your life. Check blood work before cycle for a base line then do it before pct so you know what you're dealing with, if you want I can pm you how to get bloods drawn for cheap. You do not want to do dieselbolan for your first cycle by the way because its so strong and is known to give a lot of nasty sides like lethargy, gyno and high blood pressure so if you do take it make sure to pre load Need2gaurd by needtobuildmuscle for 2 weeks and run it through the cycle and pct. Have a serm to helpspeed up recovery and for gyno go with clomid or toremifene over nolva because nolva's a progesterin and so is diesel which would worsen gyno. Get an AI (Aromatase inhibitor- stops testosterone from becoming estrogen) like forma stanzol to lower estrogen. Get some hcgenerate or bridge to run during cycle and pct to help shutdown of your balls lutenizing hormone this really helps recovery and diesel shuts you down hard.
Plus unleashed/post cycle and n2gaurd should be there in pct for test booster AI and cycle support. and a cortisol blocker like suppress c.

Id suggest for now it would be a good idea to try and gain more naturally then start off with a simpler ph cycle. and research a lot on this because theres plenty of good logs and cycles drawn up but they are all different for multiple reasons mainy that everybody who takes them are different. But educate yourself because you want to know what to do if you get gyno. Thats my 2 cents and dont be afraid to ask questions.

Well I'm glad to hear that and 20 pounds is a good start but you seem to be jumping in to this without a proper education so and I am not trying to be critical because I was just told this too, you are still below the ideal weight at ur height for a cycle. It makes it better to gain as much as you can before a cycle so you keep the gains and let your shell grow naturally to its fullest.

You should up your calories i think its 18 calories per pound of body weight and you have to maintain the weight by adding calories. So after gaining 10 lbs you add another 180, if that seems low then add more. And 3600 cals extra equals a lb of body mass, but your body only uses so much at once the rest gets stored as fat which we like to avoid as much as possible.

But to answer your question you deffinetly want a good pct. If you didn't you would probably lose everything you gained and be on hormone replacement therapy for the rest of your life. Check blood work before cycle for a base line then do it before pct so you know what you're dealing with, if you want I can pm you how to get bloods drawn for cheap. You do not want to do dieselbolan for your first cycle by the way because its so strong and is known to give a lot of nasty sides like lethargy, gyno and high blood pressure so if you do take it make sure to pre load Need2gaurd by needtobuildmuscle for 2 weeks and run it through the cycle and pct. Have a serm to helpspeed up recovery and for gyno go with clomid or toremifene over nolva because nolva's a progesterin and so is diesel which would worsen gyno. Get an AI (Aromatase inhibitor- stops testosterone from becoming estrogen) like forma stanzol to lower estrogen. Get some hcgenerate or bridge to run during cycle and pct to help shutdown of your balls lutenizing hormone this really helps recovery and diesel shuts you down hard.
Plus unleashed/post cycle and n2gaurd should be there in pct for test booster AI and cycle support. and a cortisol blocker like suppress c.

Id suggest for now it would be a good idea to try and gain more naturally then start off with a simpler ph cycle. and research a lot on this because theres plenty of good logs and cycles drawn up but they are all different for multiple reasons mainy that everybody who takes them are different. But educate yourself because you want to know what to do if you get gyno. Thats my 2 cents and dont be afraid to ask questions.

Damn, thats a lot of info, very much appreciated though. What would you suggest a good weight to start it is ? SO to break it down Basically: Need2guard..then cycle + need2guard..pct Tore+Formastanzol+HCGenerate. Is Suppress C and Unleashed/post cycle really vital for pct. Cuz thats a lot of diff stuff to be takin but if its necessary id rather be safe than sorry. And to look at the other side of the coin..What would be pretty much a worst case scenario of takin this ph ?
thanks again for all your info.Learning a lot.

You don't have to use suppress c, post cycle, or unleashed if you are using everything else you mentioned. Suppress c is a cortisol blocker and useful but certainly not necessary in PCT. The post cycle/unleashed combo is an AI/test booster combo and you are already getting that out of Formastanozol and HCGenerate.

Damn, thats a lot of info, very much appreciated though. What would you suggest a good weight to start it is ? SO to break it down Basically: Need2guard..then cycle + need2guard..pct Tore+Formastanzol+HCGenerate. Is Suppress C and Unleashed/post cycle really vital for pct. Cuz thats a lot of diff stuff to be takin but if its necessary id rather be safe than sorry. And to look at the other side of the coin..What would be pretty much a worst case scenario of takin this ph ?
thanks again for all your info.Learning a lot.

I dont know what would be the worst probably not taking n2gaurd just because u can live with bad test levels and bitch tits but you need a liver. If you're smart you take bloods before and after cycle and check your own blood pressure from time to time and eat healthy. Take what I said and what everyone tells you with a grain of salt because in the end its your life and your body and I really don't even know that much about this ****.

I dont know what would be the worst probably not taking n2gaurd just because u can live with bad test levels and bitch tits but you need a liver. If you're smart you take bloods before and after cycle and check your own blood pressure from time to time and eat healthy. Take what I said and what everyone tells you with a grain of salt because in the end its your life and your body and I really don't even know that much about this ****.

N2guard dosing is 7 caps a day bro, not 2. You want to make sure you are covered on your cycle with supports. Also you have some great OTC PCT products, but I would still have a SERM in there on Diesel. It is a pretty strong oral and will shut you down hard.

N2guard dosing is 7 caps a day bro, not 2. You want to make sure you are covered on your cycle with supports. Also you have some great OTC PCT products, but I would still have a SERM in there on Diesel. It is a pretty strong oral and will shut you down hard.

oh ok, I would love to get a legit Serm but have no idea where to get it.. Is it ok if i do the cycle w/o serm? or should i get one by one way or another ?? i been reading that one is better than the other and things like that, which serm would be best ?

5'11 and 157 lb, dude c mon here. wait til you hit 180lb at the min. you have lots of potential to grow and gain weight naturally before you need the help of a PH to break through your plateau

Im not trying to be a dick or anything, just honest advice

I appreciate your advice, but when you see it from my prespective.. being picked on all through school for being the smallest, then i grew but still remained skinnier than a motha.. and working out legitly and eating like crazy i did get a little bigger but now w a full time job its not as easy to just focus on training and eating and all that..

I know w a ph cycle ill gain circa 10 lbs with a good diet and workout plan and then i can maintain it w consistency in the gym, all im saying is im trying to pack on the weight and then maintain it..im not trying to go for the huge guy look.. just lean 175-180 and if a cycle can me to at least 165-172 ill take it and from there work my way up steadily...im just tired of being the skinny guy.

Ok, so after some more thorough research ive decided to switch PH from Deiselbolan 2.0 since ive noticed how strong it is so i chose to switch to Katanadrol v2.0 and keep all the other pct and cycle support the same.. What do you guys think..Be as critical as needed i dont get offended i just want to have ever perspective covered. and i will most likely not be taking a serm for pct, just form an over the counter pct and hcgenerate.

I appreciate your advice, but when you see it from my prespective.. being picked on all through school for being the smallest, then i grew but still remained skinnier than a motha.. and working out legitly and eating like crazy i did get a little bigger but now w a full time job its not as easy to just focus on training and eating and all that..

I know w a ph cycle ill gain circa 10 lbs with a good diet and workout plan and then i can maintain it w consistency in the gym, all im saying is im trying to pack on the weight and then maintain it..im not trying to go for the huge guy look.. just lean 175-180 and if a cycle can me to at least 165-172 ill take it and from there work my way up steadily...im just tired of being the skinny guy.

Ok, so after some more thorough research ive decided to switch PH from Deiselbolan 2.0 since ive noticed how strong it is so i chose to switch to Katanadrol v2.0 and keep all the other pct and cycle support the same.. What do you guys think..Be as critical as needed i dont get offended i just want to have ever perspective covered. and i will most likely not be taking a serm for pct, just form an over the counter pct and hcgenerate.

thanks again fellas every response is very much appreciated.

Katan isnt the best option for you. Being so skinny you want mass + size, Katan is a cutting/hardening PH. Helladrol IMO is the best option for you. dosing it

50/50/75/75/75/75

Run some DAA the last 4wks while still on cycle, it will helpout with natural T production and make going into pct easier. Also start using creatine your last 2wks of the cycle, this way you will get the loading phase done with by the time you are going into pct.

Katan isnt the best option for you. Being so skinny you want mass + size, Katan is a cutting/hardening PH. Helladrol IMO is the best option for you. dosing it

50/50/75/75/75/75

Run some DAA the last 4wks while still on cycle, it will helpout with natural T production and make going into pct easier. Also start using creatine your last 2wks of the cycle, this way you will get the loading phase done with by the time you are going into pct.

for pct:

HCGenerate
Forged post cycle
Forma stanzol
creatine

If you want to gain mostly size, then I would second the recommendation for Helladrol. Katana can give you some LBM, but hella will be more with all things the same

BTW...I don't consider bodyweight as being the determining factor of whether or not to cycle. I know guys that are in their 150s that are more jacked and can lift more weight than people 200+ in the gym.

I was one of the little guys at school too. As a freshman I only weighed 93 lbs and they wouldn't let me wrestle legally because of it. I had to wait until I was at least 95 lbs.

I'm sitting at 167 right now just as I appear in my avi, and that is "too light" under a lot of standards, but I'm also ripped at that weight and can bench near twice my bodyweight at 300+. So moral of story is I know where you are coming from and don't let people tell you that you are too small. The scale isn't always the answer...

If you want to gain mostly size, then I would second the recommendation for Helladrol. Katana can give you some LBM, but hella will be more with all things the same

BTW...I don't consider bodyweight as being the determining factor of whether or not to cycle. I know guys that are in their 150s that are more jacked and can lift more weight than people 200+ in the gym.

I was one of the little guys at school too. As a freshman I only weighed 93 lbs and they wouldn't let me wrestle legally because of it. I had to wait until I was at least 95 lbs.

I'm sitting at 167 right now just as I appear in my avi, and that is "too light" under a lot of standards, but I'm also ripped at that weight and can bench near twice my bodyweight at 300+. So moral of story is I know where you are coming from and don't let people tell you that you are too small. The scale isn't always the answer...

bromo and forma are pretty much the same thing. Both are AI's. just 2-3 pumps am+pm of forma while on cycle if you want to stay extremely tight and dry. But helladrol isnt a wet compound so there is really no need. Bromo is for diesel which has LMG in it, a very wet compound. otherwise your pct is GTG, you can run the daa the last 4wks of the cycle and into pct. thats fine, lots of guys use daa for 8wks. You could also drop the N2gaurd down to 5 caps a day and buy some extra NAC to make sure your liver cool. helladrol is mild in terms of sides, when i use it i just make sure my blood pressure stays in normal ranges and i have lots of liver support.

That wouldnt over do it on my body(liver) Im all for it but just want dont want to overdo it since its my first cycle ?
and n2guard should be carried in through PCT ?

One more quick question, how long should PCT Last, i have been under the impression it should go for 4 weeks ? but ive read that it should go 6 weeks depending the ph ? which one should i opt for ?

Yeh N2guard should be ran on cycle and in PCT. Your PCT is fine at 4 weeks.

As for dosing of Helladrol, listen to your body. If you are getting very little sides, then consider bumping. If your gains keep coming then no need to bump either. When they slow down is when its time to consider increasing dosage

You know that dieselbolan is a STEROID. And its not just a designer steroid but has a pro hormone in it LMG. It is two superdrol molecules which means its extremely strong I hear people compare it to D-Bol. Just research this topic a little bit it will be hard on the liver because its di methylated, cholestoral, and be very suppresive.

You probably have a lot of growing you can do naturally still and you NEED to have some muscle base before you do ph's think of it as building a house on sand, no you need a foundation. You should probably not take diesel your first time for many reasons but mainly because you might really hurt yourself and theres no going back after you take such a harsh compound.

I believe your thinking of DMZ that is two superdrol molecules bound by a nitrogen atom. Not LMG

Looks pretty good, but I would bump to 75mg in the second week of Helladrol and consider going to 100mg in the 5th and 6th week. Also should have N2guard in PCT

Gotcha, I'll post updates maybe every sat or sun to let you guys know how its going and if i feel it can take more ill deff up the those the last week or two. Thanks again everybody for the info, very much appreciated.

Gotcha, I'll post updates maybe every sat or sun to let you guys know how its going and if i feel it can take more ill deff up the those the last week or two. Thanks again everybody for the info, very much appreciated.