MarkJames, you horrible capitalist. You should pay them more so they can afford to purchase one of your buildings. You should pay each according to his/her need after all, there is no doubt that you can afford it.[/sarcasm font]

So you automate french fries. Great for business. But there is something else that is great for business.

Customers.

And if all menial jobs are automated then how will people who just want to work an easy job have any money to buy big macs or anything else?

Really, automation has reduced the amount of menial labor to be performed. And that has been wonderful for the rich. Decreases labor costs. Reduces overhead. Increases profitability. Up to a point. Seems like we are reaching that point. That is the point where the market is tapped out.

Mcdonalds stock went up 9% in the last year. Sounds great, eh? Not really. Because most other big stocks went up 30%. Where's the customers for mcdonalds?

People can't afford quick and easy because they don't have the money. The jobs which have been created in the recovery pay less. And don't have benefits. If there are any jobs at all. That means people have less money. That means fewer customers for McD.

Henry Ford understood something that our current business gurus have overlooked. If the workers are well paid they can afford to be customers.

The rich have nabbed all the low hanging fruit on the economic vine. It is not going to get any easier to do that. People have been encouraged to hock their houses to pay for extravagances and conveniences. They have been downsized and offshored. Few jobs have pensions or free healthcare any more. Those are perks for the rich now. That used to be common. Now it is a thing of the past for most. Times have changed.

The rich hold all the cards and most of the dollars.

How can they expect people to pay for things when the rich already have most of the wealth?

The rich shot their golden goose when they trashed the middle class. And now they will find the golden eggs much harder to come by.

>>>>>Nothing is more AMERICAN than wanting to get paid fairly for making FRENCH fries!<<<<

No you are wrong. Nothing is more American than finding a cheaper, better and faster way to make better french-fries. Right now there are people all over the world in major factories, mom and pop shops and guys in their garages trying to find a way to fully automate the french-fry cooking method. It will be faster, cheaper, result in a more uniform product, and will be safer for the remaining employees and the public. Higher wages for the guy how does it now will just mean the cost of the machine won’t have to come down as far. And in the end the guy who used to cook the fries will end up looking for another job along with all the other guys that used to cook the fries.

I continued to gain muscle and strength while losing fat as my caloric intake was about the same and I did slightly more cardio.

Calorie density of much fast food is high, something that's beneficial for many that are very active and perform a lot of physical labor.Speed is very important for many that have minutes for meals, eat while driving etc.

So what is wrong with the menu at McDonald's???I will admit. I eat McD's maybe once a month or 1-1/2 months. I'm not overweight. I'll eat a couple of hamburgers & a fry because at that point I have no time or effort to cook when I get home late.Eating it every day? Over & over is the problem. Yes it is greasy & has a higher fat content. Teach those that it is unhealthy unless moderation.

Product quality and how food is prepared matters little as long as products are "good enough" and prices aren't "too high" in the fast food industry.

What many are selling is speed, convenience, drive-thru service, ice, high margin beverages etc.

We generally sell out of pre-cooked reheated hamburger, sausage, chicken and egg sandwiches and pre-prepared cold sandwiches as well.

One of our relatives that owns a Subway loses tons of customers to fast food joints that are faster and have drive-thrus, plus to convenience stores, restaurants with drive-thrus, restaurants that deliver.

Our massive and growing Drive-Thru culture is one of the only things preventing the kiosk style order systems seen in other regions with pedestrian cultures.

As long as you have a good location, easy access and a very fast drive-thru you could sell $hit on a shingle and have more peak time business than you could handle.

In an interview once, Ray Kroc said that he was not in the hamburger business. He said if he had to quit selling hamburgers, french fries and milkshakes he'd be fine. He said McDonalds is in the real estate business. They own the most profitable corners in every sizable town or city. If McDonalds replaced the guy in the back who makes the burgers with a machine, you'd never know it. They could replace the biscuit maker and you'd never know it. How about the guy dropping the fries?

If you really believe that any fast food, McDonalds or otherwise is going out of business then you should think about why they are still building more of them. Number one food franchise in the United States is Subway. How many employees do you see working at an average Subway? Not many. Certainly fewer than a McDonalds.

Steve sez - "--Our nation would eat healthier and get more nutrition if Micky D's went overseas."..Man how cruel adn heartless can you bee - most of the kids in the poor sections of town are gonna starve if they dont have a fast food place near them. You libs sure are heartless and mean......

--Our nation would eat healthier and get more nutrition if Micky D's went overseas.

"Machines don't need meal breaks, don't steal from the company and don't want to unionize. "

"Machines also don’t limp into work lay down on the floor and claim workman’s comp for a fake fall. "

--What machines do, among other things, is break, fail, mess up, begin to give away food, dispense bad food, dispense partial orders, dispense wrong change, dispense too much change, give away money, require service, require maintenance, require cleaning, require expensive repairs, force down time, use power, and turn customers OFF. Machines are frustrating to use, cause the user to feel helpless, angry, belittled, and to decide that there must be a better way to get something to eat. People already feel like they are scraping the bottom of the barrel when they go to fast food joints. Having a bad experience with a machine will cause many to decide against returning to that restaurant.

That food is unappetizing enough without having a machine voice make it sound non-human.

If McDonalds thinks it can keep it's business (which is falling anyway) by turning it's restaurants into giant vending machines good luck to them on preventing that from becoming the end of an era.

>>>I can't say that I never patronize McDonalds. Best move they ever made was putting in that Playland and WiFi. However, we go rarely. I agree the more prices go up the better investment that the machines to replace the humans will be. Machines don't need meal breaks, don't steal from the company and don't want to unionize.<<<<

Machines also don’t limp into work lay down on the floor and claim workman’s comp for a fake fall.

"In effect, the minimum wage is a tax on labor-intensive companies. In this way government penalizes firms that employ lower-skilled workers."

They hit the nail right on the head. Raising the minimum wage incentivizes such companies to outsource, ship jobs overseas, and replace people with machines. You know, when you think about it, maybe that's exactly what democrats want to do. When people lose their jobs they become 100% dependent upon government. And how do people who are 100% dependent upon government overwhelmingly vote?

When you look at it from the perspective of a democrat politician, or a supporter of democrat policies, it makes perfect sense to want to raise the minimum wage. It's a win/win situation for them. They get a campaign issue to run on, and if it actually happens then more people become unemployed and dependent upon government, which locks in their votes. The losers are the people paying the taxes to support these policies.

I can't say that I never patronize McDonalds. Best move they ever made was putting in that Playland and WiFi. However, we go rarely. I agree the more prices go up the better investment that the machines to replace the humans will be. Machines don't need meal breaks, don't steal from the company and don't want to unionize.

"...some Democrats believe raising the national minimum wage is a winning campaign issue for November."

" What is its impact on employment and price levels? And the answer is clear: the cost of higher wages will be borne in varying degrees by customers, workers, and investors. Exactly who loses how much will depend on conditions in the particular industry."

"The latter will have the greatest impact on workers with the least education, experience, and skills, who tend to be young and minorities......The minimum wage also has encouraged mechanization, since it makes economic sense for companies to invest more in machines to spend less on labor."

"In effect, the minimum wage is a tax on labor-intensive companies."

Well, democrats love taxes. So it follows.

"Anyone who believes that higher wages would be good policy is free to pay however much he desires to anyone he hires. Everyone also is able to contribute to groups which aid the lower-income and disadvantaged. Why should such people have the right to force everyone else to pay more? The minimum wage is the modern perversion of compassion into coercion: "

Isn't that the crux? When liberals turn their compassion into coercion, the game just isn't fun for some of the players anymore.That's when businesses take their ball and go home. Or overseas.

Now let’s look at this from the point of a fast food store owner. The workers are demanding 15 an hour. That is about double what they get now. Just for argument sake lets say the store has 40 part time workers each getting 20 hours a week. Fore the ease of math let’s make that twenty workers getting 40 hours a week. A 7.50 an hour pay raise would cost the store just over 15,000 dollars a year for each worker. Now pay that to all 20 and the store cost of labor has gone up 300,000 dollars a year. That is just for one store. Don’t forget the additional roughly 10% in taxes and the healthcare now mandated for any fulltime employees.

These workers are going to price themselves out of a job. Stores will either find a way to reduce the number of workers needed or close. The places that are left will have to increase prices to cover the cost. If this happens going to McDonalds will be a treat for the rich and the poor will be stuck eating Quick trip burritos or cooking for themselves.

Just to give this argument some perspective. A $0.50 an hour raise will cost the company a little over $1000 dollars a year in additional payroll per employee. I know I said we have over 200 mechanics and after checking the actual numbers is actually just over 250 total when you add in all the people classified as mechanics. We want to give all the mechanics a $2.00 bump. That brings it up to $2000 a year per mechanic. Using the 250 number that would come to a half million dollars a year in additional pay for just the mechanics. Now if we drop the 2.00 an hour for the mechanics and give everyone a $0.25 using the number of all employees at 3000 you end up with over 1.5 million in additional payroll cost. That is just what we will have to put in their paycheck. Then we have to pay the company taxes on the payroll, things like SSI tax, Medicaid, unemployment tax and a variety of other taxes on the additional 1.5 million. I don’t know what our end of that comes to but I would be surprised if it was less than 10%. So it should come out in the area of 1.7 million total in additional cost just for $0.25 an hour raise across the board.

<<Most people are not willing to work 2nd / 3rd shift, weekends and holidays>>

This is something I've mentioned numerous times.

Many, if not most are unwilling, or unable to work early AM shifts, late shifts, 2nd/3rd shifts, rotating shifts, on-call, out-of-town, on-the-road etc.This is why many are unemployed, under-employed or unemployable.

Our largest initial culling of job applicants is due to hours and days of availability alone.

not sure this "chicken" topic I'm about to post belongs in a "mc pay" thread but just pretend it's a mc d's chicken, ok:-

Why Did the Chicken Cross the Road?-

BARACK OBAMA: The chicken crossed the road because it was time for a change! The chicken wanted change!-

JOHN MC CAIN: My friends, that chicken crossed the road because he recognized the need to engage in cooperation and dialogue with all the chickens on the other side of the road... ZZZZZzzzzzzzzz-

SARAH PALIN: BECAUSE, PRAISE JESUS, I WAS GONNA SHOOT HIS SORRY LIBERAL A$$ OFF FOR BLOCKING MY VIEW OF RUSSIA!

-

HILLARY CLINTON: When I was First Lady, I personally helped that little chicken to cross the road. This experience makes me uniquely qualified to ensure right from Day One that every chicken in this country gets the chance it deserves to cross the road.But then, this really isn't about me.

-

GEORGE W. BUSH: We don't really care why the chicken crossed the road. We just want to know if the chicken is on our side of the road, or not. The chicken is either against us, or for us. There is no middle ground here.

-

DICK CHENEY: Where's my gun?

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COLIN POWELL: Now to the left of the screen, you can clearly see the satellite image of the chicken crossing the road.

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BILL CLINTON: I did not cross the road with that chicken. What is your definition of crossing?

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AL GORE: I invented the chicken.

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JOHN KERRY: Although I voted to let the chicken cross the road, I am now against it! It was the wrong road to cross, and I was misled about the chicken's intentions. I am not for it now, and will remain against it.

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AL SHARPTON: Why are all the chickens white? We need some black chickens.

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DR. PHIL: The problem we have here is that this chicken will not realize that he must first deal with the problem on this side of the road before it goes after the problem on the other side of the road. What we need to do is help him realize how stupid he's acting by not taking on his current problems before adding new problems.

-

OPRAH: Well, I understand that the chicken is having problems, which is why he wants to cross this road so bad. So instead of having the chicken learn from his mistakes and take falls, which is a part of life, I'm going to give this chicken a car so that he can just drive across the road and not live his life like the rest of the chickens.

-

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN: We have reason to believe there is a chicken, but we have not yet been allowed to have access to the other side of the road.

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NANCY GRACE: That chicken crossed the road because he's guilty! You can see it in his eyes and the way he walks.

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PAT BUCHANAN: To steal the job of a decent, hardworking American.

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MARTHA STEWART: No one called me to warn me which way that chicken was going. I had a standing order at the Farmers Market to sell my eggs when the price dropped to a certain level. No little bird gave me any insider information.

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DR SEUSS: Did the chicken cross the road? Did he cross it with a toad? Yes, the chicken crossed the road, but why it crossed I've not been told.

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ERNEST HEMINGWAY: To die in the rain, alone.

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JERRY FALWELL: Because the chicken was gay! Can't you people see the plain truth? That's why they call it the other side. Yes, my friends, that chicken is gay. And if you eat that chicken, you will become gay, too. I say we boycott all chickens until we sort out this abomination that the liberal media whitewashes with seemingly harmless phrases like the other side. That chicken should not be crossing the road. It's as plain and as simple as that.

-

GRANDPA: In my day we didn't ask why the chicken crossed the road. Somebody told us the chicken crossed the road, and that was good enough.

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BARBARA WALTERS: Isn't that interesting? In a few moments, we will be listening to the chicken tell, for the first time, the heart warming story of how it experienced a serious case of molting, and went on to accomplish its lifelong dream of crossing the road.

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ARISTOTLE: It is the nature of chickens to cross the road.

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JOHN LENNON: Imagine all the chickens in the world crossing roads together, in peace.

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BILL GATES: I have just released eChicken2008, which will not only cross roads, but will lay eggs, file your important documents, and balance your checkbook. Internet Explorer is an integral part of eChicken2008. This new platform is much more stable and will never crash.

-

ALBERT EINSTEIN: Did the chicken really cross the road, or did the road move beneath the chicken?

"But you just do not pay people a higher wage just so they do not qualify for hand-outs. Their pay has to be commensurate with their value to the product and/or service being rendered. If it isn't you have some options...less workers, less hours, or higher inflation...but most likely all three."

I think In-N-Out found the right balance:

"But because In-N-Out pays their workers $10.50 an hour, those jobs are hard to come by. Consequently, we went on to peddle pies at Marie Callender's, where the offering of fresh strawberry pies and home made whipped cream were a draw. There were no tips, but it was a fine first job nonetheless.

That makes In-N-Out the highest paying fast food chain in the country, and by a long shot. The second highest is Chipotle, which pays $8.53 an hour. The California minimum wage is $8/hour. The bennies don't stop there. Though managers at most fast food locations average at $48,000 per year, employees at In-N-Out can eventually work themselves up to $120,000. They also offer vision, medical and dental benefits to both their full- and part-time workers.

Now these high wages have become a topic of conversation because In-N-Out, a homegrown company that's privately owned company with no plans to expand as a national chain, didn't have employees that participated in the recent fast food workers strikes demanding livable wages.

The reason is that the 65 year-old Irvine-based company, owned by billionaire Lynsi Torres, says it believes that their employees are worth investing in. Seems like quite an outlandish stance when compared to McDonald's insulting employee resource site that suggested its employees get a second job or sell their Christmas gifts for extra cash. (Though In-N-Out has inspired some other employers to pay their employees better.)"

>>>et if johnnyg1200 would pay higher wages those positions could be filled with dedicated clean stable workers.<<<

First off were do you suggest we get the money? We have over 200 mechanics and close to 2500 drivers. With the cost of diesel hovering at 3.50 a gallon, the cost of equipment replacement, parts to repair the equipment, healthcare is going up faster than ever before and the defined pension plan is upside down, we operate on a very slim margin. Second the pay isn’t the biggest problem. Most people are not willing to work 2nd / 3rd shift, weekends and holidays. We are a 24/7 operation. It takes about 7 years before someone can move into a first shift weekends off position. We also have a union that is causing problems with getting more pay for the mechanics. The union run by drivers votes down any contract offer that advances the mechanics pay more than the drivers.

As I said we have a low cost of living in St. Louis and 23 an hour is not chump change. Especially if you don’t have a job.

>>>>>>Johnny: does your state allow you to ask about past criminal convictions? I have heard that CA was going to forbid it. In our line of work (pest control), NOT asking could result in a lawsuit (same for a few other professions).<<<<<

We had an incident a few years ago where a employee assaulted a customer. We did the state required 10 year background check and he came up clean. Unfortunately he committed his offences and was let out of jail just before the back ground check time frame so he came up clean. We are still in the middle of the lawsuit over this.

If it becomes illegal for us to do the check we will have some real problems because the law will prevent us from checking for criminal history and any victims will hold us responsible for the actions of employees who hurt any of our customers.

AF: "But you just do not pay people a higher wage just so they do not qualify for hand-outs. Their pay has to be commensurate with their value to the product and/or service being rendered."

I don't believe SS cares about that. I suspect his real purpose, and he as much as said it, is to get corporations to pay welfare benefits on government's behalf in the form of wages beyond what the job contributes to the bottom line.

Most local low skilled jobs start in the $9 plus range, however the greater issues are that many can't find and keep jobs and many aren't willing to work full-time, overtime, various hours, days, shifts etc.

"The more workers are paid for what they do the fewer of them qualify for government hand-outs."

But you just do not pay people a higher wage just so they do not qualify for hand-outs. Their pay has to be commensurate with their value to the product and/or service being rendered. If it isn't you have some options...less workers, less hours, or higher inflation...but most likely all three.

There was no <<gasp>> LOL involved in my estimation of wage inflation. It's the same thing as people demanding that fast food workers get paid $15 per hour. The work they do is not worth that much. If a mechanic is being paid $25/hr and his shop is making money, but then he gets hired away and the shop must hire someone at $30 to do the same work, that still has a market value of what was produced at the $25 wage, then there is upward pricing pressure in the economy. The break point is when it is no longer money-wise to fix the old car, just go buy a new one. It is already that way with appliances. People don't fix old ones, they just junk them and get a new one. TV sets also. I just wish I could junk the home plumbing and get a new one instead of paying plumbers' prices.....

If any of that makes sense, weas, you can try to reply. Or just sit around smirking at yourself some more.

"other employers might try to entice them back, in a round of wage inflation..."

LOL! "Wage inflation"... You mean <gasp> market value! SMH

"While most conservatives are all for free markets and self-determination, paying out higher than worth for labor will lead to general inflation, which is never good for the economy. (Unless you're the Fed attempting to inflate away the national debt....)"

Right, because how ridiculous would it be for the income inequality to return to 'reasonable' levels...

Johnny: does your state allow you to ask about past criminal convictions? I have heard that CA was going to forbid it. In our line of work (pest control), NOT asking could result in a lawsuit (same for a few other professions).

Well, Steve, the idea of just paying more to attract the workers you need has been tried. Sometimes those workers just aren't out there at any price. Other times you end up pirating them away from other area employers. Those other employers might try to entice them back, in a round of wage inflation. While most conservatives are all for free markets and self-determination, paying out higher than worth for labor will lead to general inflation, which is never good for the economy. (Unless you're the Fed attempting to inflate away the national debt....)

<<mj: "If I were to add these sources of income, goods and services many would be in the $50,000 Plus Range."So actually, these people aren't stupid, but rather are quite smart in knowing how to live a reasonable lifestyle without lifting a finger.>>

-

-- Yes, many are unmotivated, unemployed, under-employed, unemployable, incompetent, irresponsible etc, but know how to work the system.

<<Oh, and watch out MarkJames, someone will be gunning for the background work on your Cato study. A columnist did a back-of-the-envelope estimation of what a person on welfare can take in last year and that column was attacked as inaccurate by assorted and predictable leftists.>>

---What I see in the real world is often much higher than the Cato study as they can't even guesstimate the income or value of cash/barter under-the table employment, local assistance, private assistance, family support etc.

Most of my calculations don't include Medicaid either which can be very expensive to those that pay income and property taxes.

"Anybody who pays taxes and votes democrat needs their head examined."

You should go post that over in Great Quotes!

Oh, and watch out MarkJames, someone will be gunning for the background work on your Cato study. A columnist did a back-of-the-envelope estimation of what a person on welfare can take in last year and that column was attacked as inaccurate by assorted and predictable leftists. The Left just can't admit that our nation has made life on the dole way way too easy. In fact a regular middle-class lifestyle can be attained by playing the system and taking in what one is "entitled" to.

Real reform in this country will involve a sanguine and realistic reassessment of who is truly deserving of the public's charity, and changing our welfare programs to cut our unaffordable payments to people who don't deserve or need them.