The God of Christianity is not merciful

Epiphanist, a regular commenter on this blog, has the following statement on his blog:

“God is good to the ungrateful and the wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.”

Here is Webster’s definition of mercy:

1 a: compassion or forbearance shown especially to an offender or to one subject to one’s power; also: lenient or compassionate treatment <begged for mercy> b: imprisonment rather than death imposed as penalty for first-degree murder2 a: a blessing that is an act of divine favor or compassion b: a fortunate circumstance <it was a mercy they found her before she froze>3: compassionate treatment of those in distress <works of mercy among the poor>

As a former fundamentalist Christian, we were taught that the God we served is merciful. The more I think about this, I’m beginning to believe that this “God” is really not merciful.

In the Old Testament, there are tons of commands that goes like this – if you obey you’ll receive these blessings, if you don’t you’ll be cursed. Where’s the mercy there? People are being rewarded for obedience and punished for disobedience. Please note that these curses are not a walk in the park. Here’s a sample from Leviticus 26:

God will bring upon you sudden terror

God will bring upon you wasting diseases and fever

The diseases and fever will destroy your sight and drain away your life

Your enemies to eat your crop

God will set his face against you so that you will be defeated by your enemies

Those who hate you to rule over you

You will flee even when no one is pursuing you

Your soil will not yield its crop nor your trees yield its fruits

God will multiply affliction seven times over

God will send wild animals to kill your children, cattle, and to make you few in number

God himself will be hostile towards you and afflict you

God will bring the sword against you

God will send a plague against you

God will give you into your enemies hand

God will cut off your supply of bread

You will eat and not be satisfied.

You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters.

God will destroy your high places

God will cut down your incense altars

God will pile your dead bodies on the lifeless forms of your idols

God will abhor you.

God will turn your cities into ruins and lay waste your sanctuaries

God will take no delight in the pleasing aroma of your offerings

God will lay waste the land, so that your enemies who live there will be appalled.

God will scatter you among the nations and will draw out my sword and pursue you.

Your land will be laid waste, and your cities will lie in ruins.

God will make their hearts so fearful in the lands of their enemies that the sound of a windblown leaf will put them to flight.

They will run as though fleeing from the sword, and they will fall, even though no one is pursuing them.

They will stumble over one another as though fleeing from the sword, even though no one is pursuing them. So you will not be able to stand before your enemies.

You will perish among the nations

The land of your enemies will devour you.

Those of you who are left will waste away in the lands of their enemies because of their sins; also because of their fathers’ sins they will waste away.

Wow. This is all from one chapter. These curses began with the curse placed on women because of Eve (painful childbirth and subjection to men) and continue to eternal torment in the fires of hell.

A man was stoned for gathering wood on the Sabbath. Another and his family were stoned and burned because he took loot from a conquest for himself. Thousands were killed for complaining. A couple was killed for lying about how much money they made on a property. We are to stone to death our rebellious teenagers, or those who engage in pre-marital sex, or even those who work on the Sabbath. The judgment of God of the Bible is clear.

I could list these judgments all day long (see this link for a sample). Where is the mercy here? If one is rewarded for obedience and cursed for disobedience, isn’t that simply getting what one deserves? Mercy would be there if there were no curses, stonings, killings, and eternal punishment in hell.

My recommendation to you is this: Please, do not be merciful as God is merciful. Please really be merciful.

I have a better definition for you:
Mercy is getting what you don’t deserve.

All of humanity is sinful. The punishment is death. Jesus came and took upon Himself THE Death Penalty – dying for the sins of all humanity. For those that accept this gift of mercy – which, again, we don’t deserve – we won’t die.

You refer to the Law of the Old Covenant, which was written to show humanity that they will NEVER be able to follow it – perfection is demanded, and no one is perfect. But Jesus is perfect – He fulfilled the Law and atoned for all of us who have broken it. The punishments you described have already been laid upon Him.

God is love, which requires him to hate. If He loves people, He has to hate murder. If He loves the truth He has to hate lies. That’s why we all deserve to go to hell, because we’ve all done things He hates.

God is merciful to you. He’s given you everything you love. He’s given you the oxygen you breathe, and all you’ve done is blaspheme. He is mercifully waiting for you to repent, but at some point, the mercy He has for you will run out, and you’ll see how just He is.

I don’t want that to happen to you. The Bible is an amazing book that tells the truth about you and me–that we are desperately wicked and deserving of hell. It was written by 40 authors over the course of 1500 years, yet it revolves around one theme–what God has done to save us from hell.

I know I’ll only be mocked for writing this here, but I do it because I hope you’ll come to your senses before it’s too late.

How many people does the devil save in the Bible? none. How many does he kill in the bible? Too many to count. The devil is behind Molech, Baal, Ashtoreth and all other false gods. The devil wants child sacrifices. God tells Abraham not to sacrifice Isaac. It is also written in the law that Israel is not to sacrifice children to him. God is the God of salvation. Satan is the liar who plots to fool others that he is not that bad of a guy.

Why does God have to save people from Hell anyway? He could’ve easily just refrained from creating Hell, thereby preventing anyone from going there. Likewise, why does God have to sacrifice Jesus (who, by the doctrine of trinity, is himself God) to himself? It seems as though the god of the Bible goes to awful lengths to please himself, when he could’ve easily just not have demanded the sacrifices. Further, if Heaven is eternal happiness, it is obvious that God can create a state in which there is no evil without infringing free will, so why doesn’t he do it on earth? The God of the Bible, if he’d been so merciful, would’ve done so.

I do appreciate your comments. Please know that I, for one, will not ridicule you for your opinions. I’m sure you’re genuinely concerned for The de-Convert’s soul.

You mentioned that God hates murder. Are you aware of the number of killings in the Bible attributed to God? The Bible says that Satan comes to “steal, kill, and destroy.” However, in the Bible, he’s only responsible for 10 deaths (Job’s kids and only with God’s permission) vs literally millions attributed to God. To me, God is the one who comes off as “desperately wicked” in the Bible.

Have you read the entire Bible? I’ve been reading This Blog and I am shocked as to what is in the Bible and that is coming from years of personally studying the Bible.

That being said – your post does display the type of “mercy” I referred to in my blog. I no longer understand that type of “compassion.” Please note that non-Christians are capable of compassion, kindness, and true mercy.

How many people does the devil save in the Bible? none. How many does he kill in the bible? Too many to count. The devil is behind Molech, Baal, Ashtoreth and all other false gods. The devil wants child sacrifices. God tells Abraham not to sacrifice Isaac. It is also written in the law that Israel is not to sacrifice children to him. God is the God of salvation. Satan is the liar who plots to fool others that he is not that bad of a guy.

God was the one who commanded Abraham to sacrifice Isaac in the first place. He’s the one who supposedly required the death of his own son in order to accomplish something he could have accomplished anyway he choose. He’s the one who required the constant slaughter of innocent children and babies in all the genocides he sanctioned.

Here’s a good verse for you:

Psalms 137:8-9 O daughter of Babylon, who are to be destroyed,
Happy is the one who repays you as you have served us!
Happy is the one who takes and dashes
Your little ones against the rock!

Atheists often criticize Christians with verses from the Old Testament (Tanakh). Christian doctrine is rooted in the New Testament. Jewish people are the ones who hold to the Tanakh (as well as the Talmud and Mishnah). Christ even says that he came to fulfill the law. The Old Testament is relevant in portraying the history of a people, providing poetry and prophesy, as well as relating events leading up to the Messiah. I encourage you to read the New Testament, especially the gospel according to John.

Critics of the Christian faith often criticize everything except Christ. Christians (at least orthodox Christians) consider Jesus Christ to be God. So when the critics criticize the God of the Christian faith they are also criticizing Christ who said that he is God. I am interested in hearing what you think about the Christ of the bible (not da vinci code or conspiracy theories, but what he said about himself and what is said about him in the bible).

God could have easily simply require us to live lives of compassion, kindness, and mercy instead of creating a bunch of really strange laws to follow then commanding sacrifices or stonings & sending plagues, earthquakes, etc. for those who broke these commands.

Why do you think he was so much into rituals, etc.? Sounds an awful lot like ancient cultural things to me. I always wondered that if there was a God, why did he really care if a priest washed their hands before slaughtering some poor animal (that in itself is barbaric). Why did he really want and enjoy the slaughter of animals? What did that really accomplish? Did he help the people be more compassionate or kind?

I used to think that Paul was trying to get put the law back into the belief system which Christ so diligently liberated, but then I started reading about the history and cultural context of Christ’s time. For instance, people often bring up the place in Paul’s letter to the Corinthians where Paul tell the church that women should cover their hair. This was merely because the women in Corinth who went around with their hair uncovered were considered prostitutes. It was an issue of cultural sensitivity. In another letter he tells the women to remain quiet in church and to ask their men at home if they had any questions. This is because the women in that church were worshiping a goddess who promoting temple prostitution. Notice he doesn’t tell the women in every church to remain quiet. Scripture needs to be look at in the historical and cultural context in which it was written. I used to criticize scripture frequently, but now I question, search and learn. Being a diligent student as well as keeping a dependency on God’s Spirit has revealed so much too me regarding the word. When a person is not dependent on God for revelation the word is dead. When a person is surrendered to God, the Word is given life.

That’s a fair argument. However, there are the verses about women being subject to men and that they should submit to their husbands. I think you’d go crazy trying to fit all of it in a nice little box. Trust me :)

As a diligent student, I’m sure that you’re aware that Paul’s authentic letters were written prior to the Gospels. He never quotes the Gospels, speak of the virgin birth, mentions any miracles Jesus supposedly committed, etc. He was also very much against the “law” being a part of the church and was supportive of women in ministry.

I think it was those after him who used his name to preach the subjection of women to men and add in aspects of the law. Also, when the Gospels were written, the authors attempted to go back and fit Jesus into the prophecies (whoever wrote Matthew did a terrible job of this… misquoting the O.T. etc.).

The origins of Christianity is a fascinating study. I’m not sure one can ever know what really happened for sure (since it’s a self-containing history without any outside references ….. its obvious that the Josephus references were additions not in the original text). I have my theories that I will share in a post someday.

The bottom line is that the N.T. you trust as the Word of God is simply a compilation of works written over the first few centuries and was put together with much debate over what should be included.

When a person is not dependent on God for revelation the word is dead. When a person is surrendered to God, the Word is given life.

This is a self-fulfilling phenomenon since it’s one’s surrender to the Bible as the Word of God that causes them not to question its inconsistencies & contradictions. So yes, if you believe it to be the Word of God, it will be the Word of God to you. However, that does not make it the Word of God. There’s nothing that could validate any of these writings as being “divinely” inspired (other than the readers belief that it is).

Personally, I still hold to some of the philosophies of what is considered as the teachings of Jesus. It’s irrelevant to me what the source of these teachings are (Paul, Jesus, stolen from philosophers or other religions, etc.). I think that we should live lives of compassion and kindness and it fits my beliefs.

The “God is Good” reference comes from the Sermon on the Mount (of course), and is pivotal in explaining the transition from the old order to the new. The theme is picked up from Ecclesiastes, which is much more of a philosophical statement than the older history stuff. I came to this verse after hearing my Muslim friend teaching “God is Great” and “There will be a day of reckoning”. Not so much mercy in her Muslim teaching, which seemed to be more aligned with the Mosaic Law which the Christ came to replace. None of us can ever consider ourselves to be more than what we can conceive. Some people, atheists for example, conceive no more than their physical and logical humanity. Some people glimpse a spiritual element and extend their conception. Some people bog down in the spiritual element too, and ignore things that are obvious to others – like evolution. Each person has an individual journey. The Bible is a record of what people were able to conceive in their short times on earth. Some of it is primitive, some not so. The last two thousand years is very interesting. Some of the Bible has been modified to reflect changing spiritual thought, but basically it has been left alone. Our ability to conceive has probably changed, and maybe even grown? Good to see people thinking about it.

15.joel | October 4, 2007 at 11:25 pm

Dear agnosticatheist in Christ,
When Paul tells the women to be subject to their husbands, it comes after it tells the men to love their wives as Christ loves the Church — and Christ suffered for his Church and gave his life for her. When he tells the women to be subject to their husbands, it means that they must let themselves be loved by their husbands.

“God is love, which requires him to hate. If He loves people, He has to hate murder. If He loves the truth He has to hate lies. That’s why we all deserve to go to hell, because we’ve all done things He hates.”

…but do you think God “hates” people? I don’t thing Jesus ever said that, did he?

“God is merciful to you. He’s given you everything you love. He’s given you the oxygen you breathe, and all you’ve done is blaspheme.”

… isnt’ that a bit judgmental? Doesn’t Jesus tell us not to judge another man’s servants? Do you know The de-Convert personally? Are you sure “all” he’s ever done is blaspheme?

“He is mercifully waiting for you to repent, but at some point, the mercy He has for you will run out, and you’ll see how just He is.”

Can you give a Bible reference for this? Or are you simply repeating what you’ve heard in church? Are you (seemingly) happy that people “like them” will get to “…see how just He is”? Wow.

“I don’t want that to happen to you. The Bible is an amazing book that tells the truth about you and me–that we are desperately wicked and deserving of hell.”

We are “desperately” wicked? Is that really all the Bible is about? Doesn’t it give us a blueprint to live by? Isn’t there more than just being “saved from sin,” but rather, “saved to serve?”

“It was written by 40 authors over the course of 1500 years, yet it revolves around one theme–what God has done to save us from hell. “

Are you sure that’s the theme? What about love? What about bringing about the Kingdom of Heaven here on earth (like when Jesus said, “the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand?) What about the way we are to treat each other? What about redemption — I’d have to argue the Bible is about a lot more than sin and hell, Bill. And yes, I’ve read it, known it, lived it …

“I know I’ll only be mocked for writing this here, but I do it because I hope you’ll come to your senses before it’s too late.”

If you were “mocked,” you’d be like Jesus, right? But he was mocked for living out his faith, being like his father, and loving people … not judging people or “insisting” they simply believe like he did. He loved people whether they were in line with him or not, did he? Wasn’t the only anger and judgment he expressed directed at the religious organizations of his age? Wow, think about that …and know I’m not mocking you, I’m just asking you to think about these things …

17.HeIsSailing | October 6, 2007 at 10:30 am

“It was written by 40 authors over the course of 1500 years, yet it revolves around one theme–what God has done to save us from hell. “

The Bible has many, many themes and streams of thought, some of which run counter to each other. The subject of Hell, for instance, does not even show up until we are 40 books into the Bible.

18.Growing Pains | August 13, 2008 at 1:11 pm

I pray that these speculations and assumptions lead those in opposition to Christianity not to Christianity but to Christ! It’s ironic that I share some of the same speculations as a believer in Christ. I can honestly say I have doubted in those same areas but I can say that when doubt is not followed by pursuit of truth, if there’s any to be found, than woe to the one who rest in doubt!

Can I pose a question? Do we learn to doubt or is it natural…could my son who is 17 months have an inclination to doubt his father who loves him deeply. I’m not naive enough to think that at this small age he doesn’t look at me and fear of not getting what he needs and for that matter wants. I have come to appreciate doubt for with it comes some of the greatest pursuits in our lives.

The layout of the Bible is this;
-God desired relationship with man (Adam commanded not to eat the fruit but have free reign over EVERYTHING)
-Man choose relationship w/out God (Adam and Eve desired to become like God w/out his leading)
-God shows man grace by using Jews to witness (called Abraham from a far away land to have relationship and gave hope through his seed…Jesus)
-God gave the Law to show man how sinful he really was (Man won’t not can’t do all the things God requires)
-God willingly sends his son to reconcile the relationship with man (Jesus Christ became what we were and were not, he took the very punishment we deserved with honor and joy)
-God will have relationship forever with man (those who’ve place faith in him will be with him and those who haven’t won’t thats the reality of hell)

I’m not trying to sell you Christianity but only persuade you to think about the reality of God in this life. God is real and so is his loving kindness, mercy, grace, and wrath. We need them all just like rules in basketball and refs on the court!

My ear is open to you and I don’t benefit from rejecting your opinions but I helps me to grow in my convictions…

Since the Lord God is the Alpha and Omega of every eternal sequence, you should trust God to correctly deal with the eternal sequence of Hell.

Frank Hatch
FrankHatchiii.com

20.atomicgumbo | November 20, 2009 at 12:38 am

Thank you Frank. It’s all clear now.

21.Ubi Dubium | November 20, 2009 at 9:21 am

Eternal sequence of Hell? You mean like 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21…?

No, wait it’s 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42!

22.DSimon | November 20, 2009 at 1:29 pm

I’m a big fan of the classic: 1 2 4 8 16 32 64…

23.Roy | November 20, 2009 at 1:52 pm

Ah, there are fellow “Lost” fans here!

24.Roy | November 20, 2009 at 1:55 pm

….. not to mention the “golden ratio”.

25.peridot | November 20, 2009 at 4:34 pm

The eternal sequence of hell is very often misinterpreted. Many people do not understand the original Greek word for sequence, which is ακολουθία. Based on careful study, the true meaning of the sequence can be discerned: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 12, 30, 33, 40, 70, 99, 1000. This is what the first century, Bible-believing church believed.

26.peridot | November 20, 2009 at 4:36 pm

(Sorry guys, but I just had a flashback to all the junk teaching I was taught in Bible college.)

27.Ubi Dubium | November 20, 2009 at 5:12 pm

Now I’m confused and intrigued. First, in Bible College, what did they teach you was purpose of this sequence? What did they think it signified, besides a bunch of numbers? When you translate it into the Greek letters that were used to represent numbers, did it spell anything?

And second, how was there any “bible-believing church” in the first Century, when the bible wasn’t compiled until the fourth century, and until then there was no agreement as to which books counted as “scripture” and which did not. Did your bible college even address this?

28.LeoPardus | November 20, 2009 at 5:15 pm

Did your bible college even address this?

Bet I can answer this one.

Hell no!

Answer based on my own experience in the utterly clueless, shallow, head-firmly-rammed-in-rectum Protestant church.

29.peridot | November 20, 2009 at 5:27 pm

Ubi, my post was a just a joke, like the ones before it by you and DSimon. I thought your post was amusing and made a feeble attempt to make an amusing comment of my own. Apparently I’m not as good at parodying fundies as some people around here. (Btw, Joshua, I LOVE some of your parodying.)

Peace,
Lisa
aka Peridot

30.atomicgumbo | November 20, 2009 at 5:37 pm

Ha! Peridot, I was really hoping that was a joke because I was laughing my ass off when I read it. Well played satire, Lisa.

Brad
aka PaleAle

31.Joe | November 20, 2009 at 6:24 pm

Just for the heck of it I dialed 666 on my phone and I got a fire extinguisher company.

32.Ubi Dubium | November 20, 2009 at 6:53 pm

Peridot, now my brain is trying to make something out of that number sequence! I’ve spent too long in math classes, and pattern recognition is taking over! AAARGH!

Good one, though. But I woudn’t put it past the Fundies to talk about “First Century Bible-believing churches”. It sounds like them. Well Poe’d.

I have in my possession 3 treasured ancient things. I have a coin that is actually dated “11 BC”, another coin marked “Elizabeth 1″ and was actually minted during her reign, and a book called “First Century Bible Believing Churches” which was written and printed in AD 98.

I bought them for $50.00 at a yard sale, but I’d venture to say they are worth at least 100 times that amount. I’m going to take them to that TV show that travels from town to town and puts values on items. I’m sure I am going to be very surprised when they are appraised.

35.atomicgumbo | November 20, 2009 at 10:16 pm

@Joe, I love that the book was “printed” in AD98

@Ubi, I got sucked into that “sequence” too! It feels like something out of “A Beautiful Mind”.

36.peridot | November 21, 2009 at 1:30 am

I swear that I didn’t make “the first century Bible-believing church” up. I attended a church as a teenager that claimed to be a church in this tradition. I was taught that before the canon was formalized, the early Christians had the Apostles living among them. As the gospels and the epistles that now make up our NT first began to circulate, the Apostles were there to instruct the believers on their importance.

Of course that’s all entirely made up and contrary to the best historical scholarship, but little things like that don’t matter to pastors like the one I had as a teenager.

37.CheezChoc | November 21, 2009 at 12:57 pm

Gosh darn you to heck, Joe….I actually believed you for one second regarding that phone call ! :)

38.CheezChoc | November 21, 2009 at 12:58 pm

Frank,

If Hell reallly is a place where people are burned and tormented, and this goes on for millions and billions and trillions of years, how does it seem merciful or just?

39.Roy | November 21, 2009 at 10:03 pm

FrankHatchiii.com ???

What the….?

40.atomicgumbo | November 22, 2009 at 12:42 pm

Ditto, Roy.

41.Malyu gf | January 17, 2011 at 6:25 am

Allah is idol. JEHOVAH IS LORD

42.Ubi Dubium | January 17, 2011 at 10:42 am

And apparently it will somehow become true if you just say it LOUD ENOUGH.

I think this discussion cannot have a clear answer. it’s just about the interpretation of the facts. You don’t need to argue for that. The people have different ideas about the same thing and this is normal.

i really don’t understand why the punishments for committing one of the seven deadly sins are so severe. I mean, boiled in oil for an eternity for being greedy?? How about being Smothered in Fire, and Brimstone for having lust. Lust is not something you can avoid, it is a natural sensatition that you have no control of. God made us the way we are, most of these traits are genetic. God should love people for the way they are, and if he is supposedly merciful, why did he create a place of everlasting punishment? It doesn’t make sense to me.

Please respond to this comment and let me know what your opinions are. I apologize if i have offended anyone.

45.cag | May 21, 2012 at 11:40 pm

What doesn’t make sense is that people still believe in superstitious nonsense such as the concept of god. There is no heaven, no hell, no gods, no angels, no devil or any other supernatural phenomena. There is no punishment outside of what humans deem to be punishable. Get over the idea that there are gods directing us or punishing us. Do not listen to those who wish to shackle you emotionally through their lies and manipulation. Do not believe a book that claims that the earth was created before the sun. Do not believe a book that claims that it took 5 days to create the earth and 1 day to create the rest of the universe.

46.ubi dubium | May 22, 2012 at 9:14 am

Hank, it never made sense to me either. Infinite punishment for finite crimes? And how could somebody ever be happy in “heaven” if someone they had loved were being tortured forever? Unless this god took away your memory of them, or took away your empathy, in which case you wouldn’t actually be you anymore. So much for free will. None of it makes any sense.

The many religions of the world cannot all be right. But they can all be wrong.

47.twinkle | September 5, 2012 at 4:00 am

God is not an object for you to read and understand. He is to be experienced. Indeed one day u will have that realisation. He is that merciful to love everyone without any difference.

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