tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1574140332407591967.post64042155735540876..comments2017-12-04T22:33:32.367-08:00Comments on Spirochetes Unwound: Inflammatory spirochete debris left behind following antibiotic treatment for Lyme diseaseMicrobe Fanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00832169199776258021noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1574140332407591967.post-52499956858132313062013-08-15T09:37:43.158-07:002013-08-15T09:37:43.158-07:00To reject the borrelia biofilm concept based on t...<br />To reject the borrelia biofilm concept based on the following 4 declarations is to fail to understand the biology of biofilms<br />as defined by Dr. William Costerton:<br />These allegations by Bockenstedt include:<br />1. Lack of observed Persister microbe regrowth in Planktonic microbiologic media<br />2. Culture Negativity of tissues with biofilm in Planktonic microbiologic media.<br />3. Skin transplant failure to transmit infection, and Xenodiagnosis<br /> negative microbe recovery results : without defining the<br /> depth of the putative &quot;glob units of borrelia&quot; from<br /> the skin surface and witha reconciliation of the<br /> depth of the Tick hypostome into the deep subcutis,<br /> as opposed to tick feeding on sperficial murine dermial<br /> tissues.<br />4. Electron microscopic study - &quot;indeterminant for &quot;debris&quot;<br /> - without presenting the raw data from the purported<br /> electron micrographs for peer review.<br />--------------<br />Collectively these 4 pitals call up the authors&#39; failure to understand<br />Biofilm biology and<br />Merely weighs final judgment of 4 tests based on Planktonic expectations.<br />Bockenstedt, L., Gonzalez, D., Haberman, A., &amp; Belperron, A. (2012). Spirochete antigens persist near cartilage after murine Lyme borreliosis therapy Journal of Clinical Investigation, 122 (7), 2652-2660 DOI: 10.1172/JCI58813<br />Objections to the Bockenstedt&quot;Data&quot; are as follows:<br /><br />1 Persister phenotype/genotypes have never been isolated in pure form<br /> precisely because Per-sisters Fail to grow with the kinetics<br /> of growth of Planktonic Microbes.<br />2. Culture negativity is a Costerton cornerstone Concept <br /> for the behavior of True biofilms<br /> Therefore Culture negativity Adds to the specificity of<br /> the &quot;globs of Bockenstedt&quot; as being Biofilm communities<br />3. Skin Tranplants have never been utilized to Judge biofilms<br /> of any microbial species. Xenodiagnosis has never been utilized<br /> to judge the status of any candidate biofilm community<br /> healthy or otherwise.<br />4. Electron Microscopy Raw data was not presented for the reader to <br /> evaluate in Bockenstedt&#39;s Paper.<br />------------------<br />By Sheer Density of borrelia profiles alone, the images of Bockenstedt demonstrate biofilm communities. Never before has any investigator of Borrelia ever published images of borrelia in such high density in the tissues a mammal. Biofilm communities attain<br />densities of microbes which far exceed the density of Planktonic<br />microbes in mammalian tissue. When the microbes actually physically <br />overlap with one another, the microbes have reached a biofilm community density level. Organisms in biofilms are Specialized, and that specialization includes the generation of Novel DNA Sequences<br />when compared with Planktonic forms, and novel proteins when compared with Planktonic forms. Horizontal DNA transfer occurs between members of the biofilm community and is responsible in part for the DNA In Flux within borrelia biofilm communities. Granular borrelia, Cystic Borrelia, Planar non coiled borrelia, and Cell wall deficient Borrelia are all evidence of specialization of biofilm borrelia community members, These morphologic specializations are clearly demonstrated and annotated in Bockenstedt&#39;s figure legends.<br />Cell death of individual members of borrelia within a borrelia biofilm community is expected, since it is by cell death, that elements of protein, and DNA are deposited into the Extracellular matrix material which holds biofilm of borrelia together and which provides protective activities to the borrelia community.<br />To summarize: Each of the &quot;challenge&quot; tests applied by Bockenstedt<br />fails to eliminate borrelia biofilms from consideration, and in fact<br />adds specificity to the biofilm mature of the great innumerable sheets of specialized borrelia in the Murine peri-articular soft tissues.<br />Submitted August 15 2013<br />Alan B. MacDonald MD FCAP FASCPllynwood@gmail.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14888068399581337395noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1574140332407591967.post-10937641302149251872012-11-12T20:54:35.104-08:002012-11-12T20:54:35.104-08:00Thanks for posting the link to their study. They ...Thanks for posting the link to their study. They present some amazing images in their paper. I plan to write up a short post about their work.Microbe Fanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00832169199776258021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1574140332407591967.post-59621361014403733212012-11-12T20:46:10.227-08:002012-11-12T20:46:10.227-08:00I&#39;ll comment about the relationship between th...I&#39;ll comment about the relationship between the Barthold and Bockenstedt studies. The theme that unifies their findings is that antibiotic therapy of infected mice leaves behind spirochetes in some form, whether live (but attenuated) or dead debris. Why does the immune system fail to finish the job started by the antibiotics? I hesitate to place the blame on an aberrant antibody response (the Tunev study) since no one has actually shown that the antibodies produced during B. burgdorferi infections are of poor quality. Of course it wouldn&#39;t matter if we knew for sure that these remnants didn&#39;t cause harm, but Bockenstedt&#39;s work suggest that they may (possibly depending on the genetic background of the host). My guess is that Barthold&#39;s attenuated &quot;persisters&quot; would also have inflammatory properties under some condition yet to be discovered.Microbe Fanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00832169199776258021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1574140332407591967.post-53339339792008618522012-11-09T11:50:42.378-08:002012-11-09T11:50:42.378-08:00&quot;According to the CDC, 10-20% of Lyme disease...<i>&quot;According to the CDC, 10-20% of Lyme disease patients who have completed antibiotic therapy continue to suffer from symptoms such as joint, muscle, and neurological pain. &quot;</i><br /><br />Thank you for posting this article. As one of those &quot;10-20%&quot; who continues to suffer from persisting symptoms after initial infection, it is a step in the right direction to find potential evidence for what may be causing my pain and suffering. The symptoms are not just pain related, though there is that - there are also cognitive deficits such as memory and concentration problems, moderate to severe fatigue, pain after short term physical exertion, sleep disturbances, and more.<br /><br />I am not sure what causes my symptoms and have been reading whatever research I can to try to get a better understanding of my condition, and it has been frustrating because based on limited data as a patient there are few choices available for treatment and what we do is somewhat experimental in terms of trying longer term antibiotic courses, pain medication, heat and hydrotherapy, and so on.<br /><br /><i>&quot;Stricly speaking, the authors are correct. Persister cells should start multiplying again in fresh culture medium. However, it&#39;s hard to dismiss the biofilm hypothesis completely given the known examples of culture-negative chronic infections associated with biofilms (see this review for one example). Electron microscopy of the joint tissue could reveal whether these deposits are intact spirochetes or debris.&quot;</i><br /><br />This is what I want to know: How long can spirochetes persist, and how does this fit into a model of latency? Is Borrelia burgdorferi like Treponema pallidum, which can be asymptomatic and latent but later evolve into a fulminant third stage neurological infection years later? Does latency = persisters if this occurs?<br /><br />I agree that electron microscopy studies are in order. Studies are needed on the extracellular matrix to see if biofilms are present.<br /><br /><i>&quot;Regardless of their exact nature, deposits of antigen have never been detected within the joints of Lyme arthritis patients. Allen Steere&#39;s group failed to find such deposits in pieces of synovial membrane removed from 26 patients with antibiotic-refractory Lyme arthritis. The findings of Bockenstedt and colleagues, who detected the deposits in a location outside of the synovial membrane, suggest that Steere&#39;s group was looking in the wrong place.&quot;</i><br /><br />Self-reporting here: My pain has rarely been right in the joint. I&#39;ve had swelling in the joints, but most of my pain is in the tendon right above the joint when I get it. That and I get burning muscle pain upon short periods of pushing myself phyiscally for a shorter period of time than the average person who is, say, engaging in heavy lifting or walking. Don&#39;t know - thought I&#39;d share this as a possible (yet anecdotal) data point.<br /><br />How do you see this research as potentially tying into Tunev&#39;s and Barthold&#39;s? Care to speculate?<br /><br />I liked your earlier entry on Tunev et al&#39;s study and think this, too, is an interesting write-up from another field:<br /><br /><a href="http://memoryreactivaction.wordpress.com/2012/08/01/borrelia-burgdorferi-the-master-manipulator/" rel="nofollow">http://memoryreactivaction.wordpress.com/2012/08/01/borrelia-burgdorferi-the-master-manipulator/</a><br /><br />Camp Otherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10224408965529778101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1574140332407591967.post-53013300060516820792012-11-09T03:28:33.464-08:002012-11-09T03:28:33.464-08:00Biofilms of borrelia burgdorferi In Vitro Observat...Biofilms of borrelia burgdorferi In Vitro Observations <br />http://molecularalzheimer.org/ Joannehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12905137222286141548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1574140332407591967.post-75745369985048772552012-11-09T03:27:03.333-08:002012-11-09T03:27:03.333-08:00Borrelia burgdorferi, the causative agent of Lyme ...Borrelia burgdorferi, the causative agent of Lyme disease, has long been known to be capable of forming aggregates and colonies. It was recently demonstrated that Borrelia burgdorferi aggregate formation dramatically changes the in vitro response to hostile environments by this pathogen. In this study, we investigated the hypothesis that these aggregates are indeed biofilms, structures whose resistance to unfavorable conditions are well documented. We studied Borrelia burgdorferi for several known hallmark features of biofilm, including structural rearrangements in the aggregates, variations in development on various substrate matrices and secretion of a protective extracellular polymeric substance (EPS) matrix using several modes of microscopic, cell and molecular biology techniques. The atomic force microscopic results provided evidence that multilevel rearrangements take place at different stages of aggregate development, producing a complex, continuously rearranging structure. Our results also demonstrated that Borrelia burgdorferi is capable of developing aggregates on different abiotic and biotic substrates, and is also capable of forming floating aggregates. Analyzing the extracellular substance of the aggregates for potential exopolysaccharides revealed the existence of both sulfated and non-sulfated/carboxylated substrates, predominately composed of an alginate with calcium and extracellular DNA present. In summary, we have found substantial evidence that Borrelia burgdorferi is capable of forming biofilm in vitro. Biofilm formation by Borrelia species might play an important role in their survival in diverse environmental conditions by providing refuge to individual cells. <br />http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0048277 Joannehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12905137222286141548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1574140332407591967.post-47010071319677622492012-11-09T03:16:06.892-08:002012-11-09T03:16:06.892-08:00Dr Barthold - Barthold: dormant, non-dividing bact...Dr Barthold - Barthold: dormant, non-dividing bacteria are tolerant of antibiotics. During persistent infection there is a 10-fold reduction in number of bacteria but they are not dividing, so antibiotics can&#39;t hurt them.<br /><br />100% of animals remain infected after antibiotics--- described as debris but it is often metabolically viable organisms.<br /><br />12 months after treatment we see widescale prevalence of spirochetes but it remains to be determined the role of this persistence --not everyone is showing symptoms.<br /><br />Biofilms - universal mechanism for bacteria, virus and fungus throughout the world for microbial communities. Borrelia - persistent infection --- reduction in host/animal ( with antibiotics?)- go dormant (not necessarily in bio film) - antibiotics can&#39;t touch.<br /><br />If you just enlarge the pot of funding, and you award the money to the same old school club of people who feed off Lyme disease, we won&#39;t get anywhere. If NIH is willing, they should put out a call for applications [for research] that is more focussed on biology. http://foreignaffairs.house.gov/hearings/view/?1455 Joannehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12905137222286141548noreply@blogger.com