Don't believe Leshoure is the problem. After all, this was basically his rookie year, and coming off an injury to boot. Feel he will improve, especially with better blocking up front. To me Bell is a 3rd string back. Expect the Lions to draft a mid-round back to share duties with Leshoure. Hoping they don't spend to high a pick on one.

February 16th, 2013, 7:58 pm

sweetd20

Pro Bowl Player

Joined: October 13th, 2005, 9:03 amPosts: 2451

Re: Lions RB situation

Rookie or not Leshoure left a lot to be desired. There are countless numbers of rookie RBs that come into the league and look much more promising than LeShoure. Everybody knows that the O-line play especially in the run game was less than spectacular but if you go back and watch the games he left a lot of yards on the field. In most instances he just didn't see the cutback lane or was indecisive and allowed the defense to get him the backfield. Then there times the hole was right in front of him and he danced instead of putting his head down to burst through the running lane. LeShoure is a nice backup or fill in RB, but from what I saw in college and so far with the Lions I just don't see a RB that a run game can be built around.

February 16th, 2013, 8:46 pm

Shotty

Millen Draft Pick - Epic Bust

Joined: July 3rd, 2012, 2:06 amPosts: 730

Re: Lions RB situation

sweetd20 wrote:

Rookie or not Leshoure left a lot to be desired. There are countless numbers of rookie RBs that come into the league and look much more promising than LeShoure. Everybody knows that the O-line play especially in the run game was less than spectacular but if you go back and watch the games he left a lot of yards on the field. In most instances he just didn't see the cutback lane or was indecisive and allowed the defense to get him the backfield. Then there times the hole was right in front of him and he danced instead of putting his head down to burst through the running lane. LeShoure is a nice backup or fill in RB, but from what I saw in college and so far with the Lions I just don't see a RB that a run game can be built around.

He'll be a bit faster next season since he came straight off the achilles tear. He has the potential to be Alfred Morris 2.0.

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February 16th, 2013, 8:48 pm

sweetd20

Pro Bowl Player

Joined: October 13th, 2005, 9:03 amPosts: 2451

Re: Lions RB situation

Speed has nothing to do with it. He isn't the RB that is ever going to consistently beat guys and turn the corner or break off huge runs and that's fine. The problem lies in lack of vision and seeing the lanes open up where he has potential to break off ten to twenty yard runs with a broken or missed tackle.

February 16th, 2013, 9:00 pm

Shotty

Millen Draft Pick - Epic Bust

Joined: July 3rd, 2012, 2:06 amPosts: 730

Re: Lions RB situation

sweetd20 wrote:

Speed has nothing to do with it. He isn't the RB that is ever going to consistently beat guys and turn the corner or break off huge runs and that's fine. The problem lies in lack of vision and seeing the lanes open up where he has potential to break off ten to twenty yard runs with a broken or missed tackle.

I understand that he didn't show impressive vision, but the guy was running behind a line that got shredded a second after the ball was snapped and had 800 yards in 14 games. Add some speed, give him a better offensive line, and he'll have 1,200 yards in 16 games easy until teams start respecting him and bring up a safety.

Jahvid was awful behind this line besides a few big runs. Kevin Smith, too. It's not the RBs.

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February 16th, 2013, 10:04 pm

Jafo

5th Round Pick - Traded

Joined: October 24th, 2005, 6:23 amPosts: 1036

Re: Lions RB situation

wjb21ndtown wrote:

Jafo wrote:

Hystrix wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

sweetd20 wrote:

It was the lack of big plays and the ability to move the chains where the running game has been less than stellar. The problem with LeShoure was he left a lot of plays and yards on the field by not taking what was there because he danced around or simply didn't see the holes opening up.

Exactly, it's our inability to move the chains and close out games that is costing us wins. It's our inability to sustain time killing drives that hurts us in the 4th Q.

You can talk about putting up 16 rushing TDs all you want. Matt Stafford had 4 of those "rushing TDs" (a Qb running play is more of a gimmick than an actual rushing play), and we didn't have a run over 20 yards until WEEK TWELVE... Frickin' 12 weeks it took us to get ONE RUN over 20 yards. That's just flat out pathetic.

Tough to argue with that.

Correct, we didn't move the chains enough. Leshoure is a 3rd down back. Bell isn't the answer. I think the Lions got the maximum they are going to get out of that particular group of running backs. I was just trying to reach for something positive.

Odd, but Bell was usually the 3rd down back.

wjb, you confuse me. In a non-FB run pattern you don't have a FB to pick someone up that the OL screwed up and missed. You also seem to be forgetting that it is usually 7 defensive players to 5 offensive linemen. 6 if you add the tightend which still leaves you at a disadvantage and doesn't include a safety coming downhill into the 'box'.

Leshoure and Bell both showed some promise. Neither are an answer because the question posed actually has to do with the offensive line that suffered from poor run blocking which usually starts with the guards. It is why Peterman was cut.

I don't have a problem with having a fullback, but that isn't how this offense is designed. It is a wasted position in this offense. Better to just put both Leshoure and Bell in the backfield and let them block for each other or slide out for passes.

Where did I confuse you? The reference post doesn't mention a FB at all?

sorry, I was ref the 3rd down back with that quote. It was in this quote a page back that you confused me:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

Blueskies wrote:

I think the FB has largely faded into NFL history for a reason.

I think the Lions' base package should be 3 WRs + 1 RB + 1 TE. They should be able to run out of this formation effectively as the other team will pull their safeties back, as they did all this season. If the Lions start running a FB, you'll just pull safeties back into the box and negate any advantage.

The problem is, as others have said, a poor offensive line. Sure, it can pass block. But the line can't run block whatsoever. Even when Best was getting those 100+ yard games he was doing it Marshall Faulk style with a lot of screen passes and such.

I agree with you. In terms of blocking, and FB only allows a team "flexibility" or the ability to pick up the guy that slipped through, but this comes at a sacrifice, you're literally ALLOWING the guy to slip through by not putting a body on him at the line, and HOPING the FB picks him up in the backfield or meets him at the LOS. Quite literally, in a non-FB run pattern, someone on the OL has to have screwed up for the FB to be effective in the first place. In a non-FB run pattern that guy SHOULD have been picked up at the LOS. The "one guy" that many "fans" on here think should have been blocked by a FB, would have and should have been blocked by someone at the line, had they done their job.

That said, for guys like Cooney (Washington) that has great hands, can play TE or FB, or guys like Hillis (was a FB before he was moved to RB), they offer such versitility that they could and should have a place on any team. It has been mentioned, but it's just one more guy to be accountable for. It's one more package teams have to scheme against.

If we can turn Leshoure into a FB and have him in the backfield with Bell, or if we can get someone like Pryor (FSU), I'm all for having a FB, but the reason being is more because they are that talented than it is the position is that important.

February 17th, 2013, 10:28 pm

Jafo

5th Round Pick - Traded

Joined: October 24th, 2005, 6:23 amPosts: 1036

Re: Lions RB situation

I can agree that it isn't all the running back. Before LeShoure tore his Achilles tendon he reportedly had some big play speed. There is also the matter of confidence necessary to make cuts coming off an injury.

With that said, I think LeShoure had the same problem Smith had when he first got here; he tried to make big plays instead of taking what was there. A great many of AD's big runs came after contact because he decisively hit the hole or lane and defenders were in poor position to make the tackle.

I saw a part of a show where a young kid at a football camp was asking a pro running back what he needed to work on to become better; getting stronger, quicker etc. Barry Sanders was there and both he and the other guy said lower body strength. Coming off injury LeShoure probably didn't have as much as he needed. We'll see.

Either way, I don't see us going after a running back early in the draft, if at all. I think the focus will be on improving the line. That should help the running and passing game. Not to mention that it is long over due.

February 17th, 2013, 10:43 pm

inheritedlionsfan

Team MVP

Joined: January 13th, 2006, 4:18 amPosts: 3461Location: Maryland

Re: Lions RB situation

It looks like the Lions might be making a play for Reggie Bush. While it's all speculative, Matt Stafford started following Bush on twitter and Nate told Reggie to bring his talents to Detroit. I'd have been on board with this move a few years ago. Maybe if he doesn't want too much money and he accepts the third down pass catching back role....

It looks like the Lions might be making a play for Reggie Bush. While it's all speculative, Matt Stafford started following Bush on twitter and Nate told Reggie to bring his talents to Detroit. I'd have been on board with this move a few years ago. Maybe if he doesn't want too much money and he accepts the third down pass catching back role....

It looks like the Lions might be making a play for Reggie Bush. While it's all speculative, Matt Stafford started following Bush on twitter and Nate told Reggie to bring his talents to Detroit. I'd have been on board with this move a few years ago. Maybe if he doesn't want too much money and he accepts the third down pass catching back role....

I wouldn't mind giving him around $3M/yr avg as long as the cap hit is done right and it's more back loaded. If there is any type of offense Bush should excel at it's the Lions' offense.

February 18th, 2013, 6:16 pm

sweetd20

Pro Bowl Player

Joined: October 13th, 2005, 9:03 amPosts: 2451

Re: Lions RB situation

I'm not a fan of Reggie at this point the only way I'd sign him is sign him is if he were still sitting there in June unsigned and what ever rookie (drafted or UDFA) wasn't showing they were ready to play that role. It's not that I don't like him it's just that he always seems to be getting dinged up and isn't overly willing to play through those dings.

February 18th, 2013, 6:51 pm

Mufasa

Red Shirt Freshman

Joined: January 11th, 2006, 4:04 pmPosts: 459

Re: Lions RB situation

"IF" Reggie Bush comes to Detroit, I can assure you, he'll be splitting carries down the middle with LeShoure. Mikel doesn't have enough to sit Reggie in a 3rd Down role and Lions can't justify the money they'll be paying him at that spot. With LeShoure getting the Lions share of carries inside the 5 yard line. I'm sure Mayhew's sell to him will be that or Reggie will be heading home to San Diego. So Mayhew better get his checkbook out and promise Reggie, he'll be on the field 90% of the time in some type of role as a RB, WR, PR, KR, and screw it TE role maybe even DB. Lol!!

inheritedlionsfan wrote:

It looks like the Lions might be making a play for Reggie Bush. While it's all speculative, Matt Stafford started following Bush on twitter and Nate told Reggie to bring his talents to Detroit. I'd have been on board with this move a few years ago. Maybe if he doesn't want too much money and he accepts the third down pass catching back role....

"IF" Reggie Bush comes to Detroit, I can assure you, he'll be splitting carries down the middle with LeShoure. Mikel doesn't have enough to sit Reggie in a 3rd Down role and Lions can't justify the money they'll be paying him at that spot. With LeShoure getting the Lions share of carries inside the 5 yard line. I'm sure Mayhew's sell to him will be that or Reggie will be heading home to San Diego. So Mayhew better get his checkbook out and promise Reggie, he'll be on the field 90% of the time in some type of role as a RB, WR, PR, KR, and screw it TE role maybe even DB. Lol!!

inheritedlionsfan wrote:

It looks like the Lions might be making a play for Reggie Bush. While it's all speculative, Matt Stafford started following Bush on twitter and Nate told Reggie to bring his talents to Detroit. I'd have been on board with this move a few years ago. Maybe if he doesn't want too much money and he accepts the third down pass catching back role....

If the Lions can get Bush, they can run a split back formation with dual HBs. That formation would keep their best offensive players on the field while not needing a WR2. It will also allow them to run behind a loaded set of blockers or spread out the formation turning into a single back formation with Bush and Scheff going out wide with CJ. Bush is a better pass catcher then most of the Lions WRs, there is plenty of ways to get him his touches without running him between the tackles.