In the interest of accuracy, THAT White Flag was pulled off when we were in second place. Being in second place meant that there was some talent on the team that could be traded. Now? A thin list of names emerged earlier in the thread.

The blame falls on Kenny and ultimately on JR for charting the course and allowing it to be charted.

I don't think that even the most dark clouded of fans would have seen this team failing this spectacularly when it's roots were assembled back in 09/10.

__________________
"I told you I'd give my left nut to help this team." Paul Konerko

The same fans who have less experience than Ventura, yet seem to know every perfect move.

Why bother at all then? Shut this and every other message board on every subject imaginable down and only let the "experts" have their say. As for Ventura, I was not against giving him the job of manager, but pointing out his lack of experience at the managerial level was a legitimate concern. Not a cause for tarring and feathering.

A number of fans on this site and others wanted the Sox to trade Paul Konerko and make Brian Daubach the starting first baseman. Your point?

My point is that people should be able to voice an opinion on a message board of all places. I don't even have to approve of or agree with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeadMoney

And...? Does anyone seriously think a different manager would've been able to correct this mess?

I certainly don't. Baseball is very unpredictable but it looks like it will take a long time, the number of years I wouldn't even want to guess, to straighten out this mess. I just defended the right to have an opinion on Ventura's lack of managing experience. Apparently that was a very bad thing for me to say. If any of you knew me you'd know Robin Ventura is on a very short list of my all time favorite White Sox players. I wish the situation were different for him.

And...? Does anyone seriously think a different manager would've been able to correct this mess?

Most of the pitching aside, the MLB roster is atrocious (and don't even get me started on our prospects). Heck, even with the pitching, I tend to think that there's only a handful of guys on this roster that other teams would be interested in having at the price we're paying.

As for Robin making these comments, he probably deserves some criticism for this. What changes can he make? With the exception of sending Dunn off with a one-way ticket to anywhere-but-here, what can he do?

My point is that people should be able to voice an opinion on a message board of all places. I don't even have to approve of or agree with it.

No, your point was to support your opinion by saying other people had the same opinion. My point was to show that people have an opinion about a lot of stupid things. You can't point to groupthink when you believe it supports your point and then just say "It's my opnion!" when it doesn't.

Really though, what tradeable pieces do we have, what would the return be, and would that return be worth it?

I count six guys - Peavy, Rios (may need to eat some salary), Ramirez, Lindstrom, Crain, Thornton as guys who other teams might want (and maybe a 7th in Konerko). I suppose you could also consider Santiago/Quintana at some point too so the rotation isn't so lefty - assuming a healthy Danks - but I couldn't see that being an in-season type move. And I guess if the team is in full tear down and rebuild mode they can look at trading Reed, but at some point they need to look at guys they'd want to build around.

This is - unfortunately - the guys and the roster Robin is working with, but I'd love to see what changes he might have in mind.

Don't forget Sale.

I'm not saying it's a good idea. I'm not saying I would approve of the Sox dealing him. But he has quite a friendly contract and would be extremely valuable to any team.

No, your point was to support your opinion by saying other people had the same opinion. My point was to show that people have an opinion about a lot of stupid things. You can't point to groupthink when you believe it supports your point and then just say "It's my opnion!" when it doesn't.

That was NOT and is NOT my opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SI1020

A number fans on this and other sites were leery of hiring the inexperienced Ventura.

And they were. Them. Not necessarily me. Are you this ****ing miserable in person too?

Every now and then you have to get lucky in baseball. Everybody thought Vernon Wells was through . The Yankees took a chance on him and he has done well with the Yankees this year.(The Angels are paying most of the contract) Hopefully we can make a move or too and hopefully come out of it in a positive way. I dearly hope the first move is to bench Adam Done. Maybe he will take the hint and retire. By him hanging up his spikes we will be rid of him plus we will not be responsible for the rest of is salary. Maybe the White Sox can work out some deal with him to pay him a percentage of his contract and he can just leave. Either way I hope Done will no longer be on this team. I don't care who they replace him with, just let him go. He is the worse all around player the White Sox have had in my lifetime. And he is the worse clean up hitter in modern ( post World War 2) baseball history.

First, am I the only one who thinks the Adam Done name is stupid and childish? Second, the Sox are stuck with him. He's not tradeable and he's not going to retire. I see no point in bringing up how ****ty he is and what the Sox should do with him over and over again when we all know that nothing is going to be done.

First, am I the only one who thinks the Adam Done name is stupid and childish? Second, the Sox are stuck with him. He's not tradeable and he's not going to retire. I see no point in bringing up how ****ty he is and what the Sox should do with him over and over again when we all know that nothing is going to be done.

It was funny for a brief amount of time, but it's getting old. Sort of like Bacon.

Robin Ventura
"Eventually you get to that point where you don't pay attention to what's going on, [and] we're going to find somebody else to do it," Ventura said. "We're going to start with the paying attention and the lapses first. There's part of performance that goes with it. We're going to do that, too, but the stuff that should be the simple stuff is going to be first."

First, am I the only one who thinks the Adam Done name is stupid and childish? Second, the Sox are stuck with him. He's not tradeable and he's not going to retire. I see no point in bringing up how ****ty he is and what the Sox should do with him over and over again when we all know that nothing is going to be done.

My problem with Robin is he has a boring dull personality. He was hired because he was the exact opposite of Ozzie and now the team has taken on Robin's personality which is boring and plodding.

That still doesn't address Konerko's age, Adam Dunn, Jeff Keppinger, a bunch of injuries and the total mess Kenny Williams created and will create by getting kicked up stairs, but you can't fire the players but you can fire the coach.

As Chicago fans, I don't know why we always revert to the "need more fire and passion" argument when things are going poorly. Maybe it's because this is a football town first. I'm not sure. But even if Robin were kicking over water coolers, throwing bats on the field and getting ejected every game, I don't think it would make any difference.