Looking at the comments and the public reaction on Cameron Carpenter's VEVO account....the public have well and truly said how they feel, but do they feel this about just Cameron Carpenter, or do they have similar thoughts about the organ scene in general too? Personally I'd agree with the latter, not totally, but a good chunk of me agrees that that is generally how the general public see the organ and organists.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLzgFkouSmc - the video itself for those who wish to read the comments.

Have you had the opportunity to see the review I wrote here on this forum of a concert he gave (on a real tracker organ no less here locally, (a month ago to this day) which I attended? I (hope) I make the case he may be damaging far more than "the organ scene" or "himself" but the whole of civilized society

If nothing else, the few most recent comments I read at the Youtube link above mean my assessment based on his live performance isn't too far off the mark

EricKB7DQH

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The objective is to reach human immortality—that is, to create things which are necessary to mankind, necessary to the purpose of the existence of mankind, and which have become the fruit that drives the creation of a higher state of mankind than ever existed before."

Have you had the opportunity to see the review I wrote here on this forum of a concert he gave (on a real tracker organ no less here locally, (a month ago to this day) which I attended? I (hope) I make the case he may be damaging far more than "the organ scene" or "himself" but the whole of civilized society

If nothing else, the few most recent comments I read at the Youtube link above mean my assessment based on his live performance isn't too far off the mark

EricKB7DQH

It is interesting to read these reviews.

On the basis of the video link alone, I can tell you this: he is unlikely to attract younger people to play in this country - I cannot think of any parent whose child I teach, who would willingly let their offspring near him. Please note that this is not to cast any slur on his moral character - simply that the persona which he chooses to portray appears (to a reasonable person) to be somewhat odd.

What annoys me most about him is that he DOES have the ability to be extremely good, without constantly showing off -look at me, I can play 4 manuals at once and play the melody line with both feet on the pedals- that's fine back n forth now and again, but it is almost all the time with him. The result is that it sounds dreadful. He would be much better appreciated by controlling his talent a good deal more, rather than just running wild with it.

One problem is that the big names of the music industry don't know where to go. They might have seen success with Lady Gaga but the organ world is not that world. Sony is just as much at a loose end as the artist they're aiming to promote . . . and I say this in particular relevance to my final comment below.

From the video comments

Quote

The organ was made for the glorification of God, not the narcissistic display of personal eccentricity. Carpenter needs to become less in his own eyes, so that God may become greater.

and certainly in ignoring God, Carpenter does not understand the process of creation by which matter is created by lesser particles working together to create.

Coming to the end demonstration of this monster creation - which in having a Bomb button clearly takes after that labelled "Self Destruct" (although isn't it interesting the contrast of the effect of bomb to destroy others and self destruct with which to disappear within) - is that we have a giant synthesiser of immense resources able to create an effect that really we really have come across before with pipe organs of the highest stature and significantly less "resources" still able to send a chill down the spine.

Cameron is trying to be different. In the words of another 'Cameron', I get that. But that organ of his is complete overkill and it is out of date as a concept: he still needs a large truck to carry it around, yet Hauptwerk is now on the scene. The man is power-mad.

He can't damage the organ scene though. The organ is happily doing that all by itself because of the frankly pathetic return on one's money, time and effort to learn it properly. However, Cameron could damage himself. Those supplements he drinks can be bad for you in excess. Or he could put his back out one day on the weights.

It seems to me that Carpenter wants to enter mainstream entertainment. To do this, he needs to sing and drop the organ completely. That sagely Manc Noel Gallagher hit the nail on the head concerning his band's lack of a keyboard player. He said keyboardists always look down at their hands. Too true. And that makes CC's crusade a non-starter: he's got his back to the audience. If he really wants to be modern, he needs to drop that monstrosity he calls an organ, cut it down to three manuals, put in a terraced stop arrangement to keep the console low, and turn the whole thing round 180 degrees so that people can see his surly gob. That would be really modern.....

STEGER: Another key factor, and you've raised this before, Lyn, is, at the same time as Russell, you had the death of Brahms. But the problem that people think of with music, is they think: "Oh, that's unfortunate, Brahms died, we didn't have a continued legacy." But this fight around music has also been of the highest political nature. I mean, if you take the example of what Bach introduced, following Leibniz's death, they had this Newton operation, they tried to mathematize the calculus, right after Leibniz died, a kind of Bertrand Russell operation. But what Bach introduced, for the next few decades, were some of the greatest creative breakthroughs in mankind, really began to transform as a political process, as a social process, exactly what you're saying, an ability to collaborate around ideas, to the advancement of mankind. And that kind of process is of a political nature, it's not just of "do we create good music, or do we have the trash we have today?" This was by intent, along with Russell, a destruction of a higher sense of music, of a higher sense of ideas.

And that's got to be part of what we unleash today, is this real Renaissance in human thought.

So few people understand there is more to be saved than the Pipe organ by saving it...

Eric KB7DQH

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The objective is to reach human immortality—that is, to create things which are necessary to mankind, necessary to the purpose of the existence of mankind, and which have become the fruit that drives the creation of a higher state of mankind than ever existed before."

And that's got to be part of what we unleash today, is this real Renaissance in human thought.

Why? The general populace aren't interested in real/classical music, unless some tw*t produced by Simon Cowell sings the usual stuff (Nessun Dorma, Pie Jesu et al) from the Cowell back catalogue.

Look at the state of the Proms now. We have the likes of Paloma Faith taking part in the main season this year. The trouble with the public is that they take an instant dislike to anything that attempts to raise their understanding beyond that of beer, sex and football. They are quite content peering through the bars of their cages. They think art galleries are elitist, yet entry to one is a tiny percentage of that required to enter a football ground, and very often only a donation is required. Yet football is what they want, not art. They want thuggish behaviour off and on the pitch, not Monet or Rembrandt. These are the people you would have to influence to bring about this 'Renaissance'. It is never going to happen.

There is nothing to explain. I once played a Yamaha Electone in front of 2000 people at a beer festival in Bolton. The people were there for the beer, not the music. Same applies in this instance. It just so happens that a Wurlitzer was installed on the premises.

I like theatre organ music. But it is not the type of music that is being advocated in the article you quoted. The 'advancement of mankind' would suggest something that went beyond mere entertainment.

Yes, most organ aficionados think he has no appreciation for what has gone before him and lacks etiquette and finesse in playing the classical organ repertoire, however he does stand out, he does try and raise an interest from outside the very small closeted world of the pipe organ, perhaps in vain but at least he is doing something different.

I have watched many of Cameron’s videos online and seen him live a couple of times and whilst some of his performances seem to not tick the boxes of what is traditionally expected, he brings something new to the table. I suspect that as he grows older he may move away from technically showing off at every moment and become a more “normal” performer, but surely his ability to surprise people is a good thing especially if it draws new people in, surely that’s what Sony was thinking when they recorded him.

The organ world needs contrast or it will become even more elitist than it already is. Whether you think he damages himself or the pipe organ is not really relevant, at least he is making people talk.

Yes, most organ aficionados think he has no appreciation for what has gone before him and lacks etiquette and finesse in playing the classical organ repertoire, however he does stand out, he does try and raise an interest from outside the very small closeted world of the pipe organ, perhaps in vain but at least he is doing something different. ...

It is not so much about him showing off - it is partly his tendency to wear outlandish outfits - I doubt that this aspect would attract the 'average' person. Turning up at major venues to play, wearing leotards and 'wife-beater' undershirts is more likely to guarantee people not taking him seriously. Added to which, his playing at the Promenade concerts a couple of years ago I found to be unnecessarily showy, unattractive and occasionally bizarre.

I am sorry - I disagree that we are being unfair to him. He is more in danger of becoming a liability if he carries on in this manner. In any case, he keeps getting in the way of the music, with his dress and showy persona. I am not suggesting that all recitalists should wear a pinstripe suit and a sombre tie, or that repertoire should be limited to long, serious works which require great concentration on the part of the listener, but there is surely a more reasonable middle course in all this nonsense.

I used to be in awe of his technique, but not by his orchestration. Recently, however, listening to him on YouTube, I'm put off by the note fluffs in some performances. Virgil Fox used to have masses of these sometimes, but.....

I used to be in awe of his technique, but not by his orchestration. Recently, however, listening to him on YouTube, I'm put off by the note fluffs in some performances. Virgil Fox used to have masses of these sometimes, but.....

Indeed, David.

There were also a few instances of him cancelling UK recital engagements at short notice - occasionally for somewhat unsatisfactory reasons.