I forgot if I posted about this here or not. I had Chameleon Stretch 3's that I thought were the perfect dry weather DG shoe but 6 months later they were coming apart in ways I know they shouldn't. I contacted customer service and they had me mail them back, and less than 2 weeks later (They said allow 4 weeks for processing) I got a brand new pair of black chameleon 4's in the mail. That says a hell of a lot to me about the company. Gonna go try out the 4's today (Never knew a 4th revision existed) and see how they feel.

I had a pair of chameleons but the lack of anything close to a tongue made them not comfortable on my fee. I think they would have lasted forever though. I ended up just giving a 100+ dollar pair of shoes to a friend. blah.

I've gone through both the stretch 2 & 3 chamelleons. The 2's were far superior for durability, I got about 2 years of dg out of them. The 3's are another story... Picked up the pair this spring and after a couple of months the stitching inside behind the heel pulled apart & the padding came out along with the sole separating about 2/3 up towards the toe. Both versions were super comfortable, though a bit heavy.

How are the intercepts holding up for you rusch? Probably going that route soon.

I've scouted out a TON of different Merrells and found a few things... but it also leads me to a couple of questions for those who have a lot of experience with em.

They have two distinct shapes to their trail shoes. There's the rounded shape, which is more like the Chameleons and Intercepts. There's the straighter shape, which is more like the Moabs, Outland, etc. If your feet flare out towards the front of the foot, you will be much better off with the rounded shape. If your feet are pretty much a straight line, you will probably do better with the straighter shape. If you have a wide, flared foot and go with something that has a lot of mesh (such as the Moabs), I don't foresee them lasting very long for disc golf.

Also, the sole stiffness varies a ton by model. The more expensive Merrells tend to have stiffer soles and a much sturdier footbed.

I suffered 3rd degree sprains to both ankles and feet playing sports in high school and I had fairly wide feet to begin with. Due to the loss of ligaments, my arches collapse completely when I set my foot down. When I'm not standing, my left foot is a EE width and my right foot is an E width. When I stand, my left foot goes to a EEEEE, and my right foot goes to an EEE. I've found the straighter Merrells are uncomfortable when new and break in will involve busting out the sides of the shoe (which will lead to quick breakdown/tearing). The other stupid thing is that I have to go with medium width shoes or they won't hold my arches up (even with orthopedic inserts). Last sept I picked up a pair of Chameleon 3 Ventilator GTX. After wearing them every day and being on my feet for 4+ hours for a year, everything is intact but the sides have started to stretch out quite a bit and because of that they are losing support. Sadly, the Chameleon 3's standard shoes are discontinued (while you can still get stretches).

Does anyone know which models have a similar fit? I picked up a couple of pairs of Intercepts on clearance and the fit is close, but I can tell they are going to stretch in the same spots faster than my Chameleons did. The Chameleon 4's fit closer to the Refuge, which falls somewhere between the Moab and Chameleon. My foot won't even fit into the Chameleon 3 Stretch, so those are a no go.

To add, I don't use these for disc golf, just for day to day use. My skeleton and muscles have adjusted to a high level of support and now I feel miserable if I spend a day in shoes with poor support.

On a side note, if you live near a Cabelas, they are clearancing several models of Merrell (both in store and on the website but the site is pretty much out of em now). On the site they had the Intercept Urban for $49, the Seismic for $39, and the Pantheon for $39. Went to a physical store the other day and they had an extra 40% off clearance tags (although the base price was higher). They had Intercept GTX's for $54, Chameleon 3 Ventilator GTX's for $54, Seismic for $36, Pantheon for $36, as well as a few others but their sizes were extremely limited.

pointdisc wrote:I've gone through both the stretch 2 & 3 chamelleons. The 2's were far superior for durability, I got about 2 years of dg out of them. The 3's are another story... Picked up the pair this spring and after a couple of months the stitching inside behind the heel pulled apart & the padding came out along with the sole separating about 2/3 up towards the toe. Both versions were super comfortable, though a bit heavy.

How are the intercepts holding up for you rusch? Probably going that route soon.

pd

Sorry I didn't see this sooner. Mine are still perfect. And blake, I don't have that much knowledge on feet and shoes so this is probably worthless but my intercepts have been nice. Hope you figure something out.

What I've run into is that the rounded Merrells are some of the first shoes I've found that actually fit my foot and retain support after they break in. I tried on some of the upper level Keens but they fit my foot like crap. No arch support and tons of pressure on the outer edge of the foot = they are going to stretch out really quickly and won't hold the arch up (correctly) even with the inserts.

A friend of mine also picked up a pair of the Cham 3 ventilators and he's finding a world of difference when he's at work. no leg fatigue but it's forcing him to improve his posture or his back gets sore.

Interesting... I like the Moab Ventilator even though my feet are sort of duck-shaped. I can't wear most other trail runners because they are all too pointy. The Moab last is a pretty good fit, though I have to buy them a bit big and keep the lacing relaxed down at the toe end. I tried Stretch Chameleons on one time and didn't like the stretch aspect, so I don't remember how they fit otherwise. I have been meaning to try on a pair of Teva Riva at some point as I've heard they are a good fit for this foot shape (my feet are normal width except at the forefoot).

Mike C wrote:I forgot if I posted about this here or not. I had Chameleon Stretch 3's that I thought were the perfect dry weather DG shoe but 6 months later they were coming apart in ways I know they shouldn't. I contacted customer service and they had me mail them back, and less than 2 weeks later (They said allow 4 weeks for processing) I got a brand new pair of black chameleon 4's in the mail. That says a hell of a lot to me about the company. Gonna go try out the 4's today (Never knew a 4th revision existed) and see how they feel.

Just had to give Mike C props on the avatar. One of the best stoner rock albums to date......

Interesting... I like the Moab Ventilator even though my feet are sort of duck-shaped. I can't wear most other trail runners because they are all too pointy. The Moab last is a pretty good fit, though I have to buy them a bit big and keep the lacing relaxed down at the toe end. I tried Stretch Chameleons on one time and didn't like the stretch aspect, so I don't remember how they fit otherwise. I have been meaning to try on a pair of Teva Riva at some point as I've heard they are a good fit for this foot shape (my feet are normal width except at the forefoot).

The Moabs have a lot of stretch in the sidewalls. You can see this as a good or bad thing. In my case I want the shoe sidewalls to hold the foot bones inwards and use inserts to hold the arch up (and slope of the foot), so stretch is bad. Keep in mind stretch and break-in are different things. If your foot always has pinch points in shoes, the stretch will alleviate these. The downside is that if you get significant bursting of the sidewalls just above the sole, you will likely wear them out faster and they won't give as good of support in the long run.

Another thing I've found is that really expensive merrells ($125+) have a different, more rigid footbed than the cheaper ones. They'll give more support and last longer, but imo, they are probably worse for disc golfing. my Chameleon ventilators I've been wearing for a year still have no flex in the sole at all.

"The downside is that you get significant bursting of the sidewalls just above the sole"

This is the reason I'll never buy Merells again, the shoes detach from the sole in no time. I've tried 3 different styles and this happened to every pair within the first month or two. I'm done with Merrells. The Columbia trail runners I'm wearing now were much cheaper and are going on 4 months with no problems.

I can see it being a problem with mesh. by "bursting" i don't mean actual tearing, moreso overt stretching that kills the support and eventually will lead to tearing/separation. the tearing usually happens with a mesh-based upper, especially if it uses nylon "strap" type material to hold it in. either way, if the shoe does this due to wide feet, they aren't going to last very long.

I had a pair of columbias last 2 disc golf seasons. sadly, the support was gone after 2 months but they lasted until I wore through the bottom sole.

MR. WICK wrote:"The downside is that you get significant bursting of the sidewalls just above the sole"

This is the reason I'll never buy Merells again, the shoes detach from the sole in no time. I've tried 3 different styles and this happened to every pair within the first month or two. I'm done with Merrells. The Columbia trail runners I'm wearing now were much cheaper and are going on 4 months with no problems.

Which columbia trail runners did you get?

I just bought a pair of Patagonia Tsalis and they feel amazing on my feet. I do have wide feet and they do bulge the mesh out the slightest bit on the outside right below the front of my ankle but the shoe seems designed for that, the padding in the shoe actually goes off the side of the sole so I'm guessing they designed it this way because the shoe naturally bulges out right there. I took them for a jog around a neighborhood and I really like how the front is nice wide so the front of my foot doesn't feel cramped like it does in most trail running shoes; they also have super good support in the heel.