As boxing fan there are bigger issues for you to focus on than a retired fighter and his fans. Namely Cotto and Saul Alvarez reluctance to face gennady. He could have faced Ward, who was very willing, but instead chose to wait out in the rain for people who might not arrive.

He puts on excellent performances. Can he do so against higher level opposition.

Most male MMA fighters couldn't take a lower level pro-boxer in a straight up boxing match. Why is this even a question? It's like saying the best triathlete couldn't beat the best marathon runner in a straight up marathon. No duh. They are different sports. The pro-boxer would nearly certainly lose to even a low level pro MMA fighter, in an MMA match, by the same token. Any non-completely stupid MMA fighter would immediately take the fight to the ground and either submit the boxer or just sit in full mount and punch and elbow until the ref pulled them off. Stopping the takedown is not an easy thing to learn either, nor is getting up from the takedown. And being great or even good at one sport is not necessarily going to translate to being good at another. Holm had the distinct advantage of coming from a gym that is primarily known for training great MMA fighters.

Anyway, back to boxing - Cotto Canelo should be fun. I don't see it being a great night for Cotto, but I suppose we'll see.

Yeah, I agree about the skills not translating well. I did a poor job communicating, but my quote was in reply to people saying Rousey could beat Mayweather.

It'll be a good night for Cotto's bank account. He's making $30m.

Canelo is around -300 in most places, which is still insane and free money!

Edit: Also, Rigondeaux is on the undercard in what will be an exhibition. Still, I'm glad he's finally back in the ring.

Yeah, I agree about the skills not translating well. I did a poor job communicating, but my quote was in reply to people saying Rousey could beat Mayweather.

It'll be a good night for Cotto's bank account. He's making $30m.

Canelo is around -300 in most places, which is still insane and free money!

Just throwing it out there but after thinking it through, the fight might not be as easy for Canelo as most think.

Cotto still got some power and can box. He can cut the ring too, he was Moneys most difficult fight so I think he can move around Canelo.

He will definitely get hit and I think his old legs will give out in the later rounds especially if Canelo works on his body and work on him fast early on, the younger one should have the better stamina. Age might have weakened his chin too.

I still wouldn't give him the edge in betting though but maybe being a champ and looking great the past two fights with Roach on his corner helps a lot?

In the end I still see it as a win for Canelo, maybe stoppage on 9th or 10th?

Yeah, I agree about the skills not translating well. I did a poor job communicating, but my quote was in reply to people saying Rousey could beat Mayweather.

It'll be a good night for Cotto's bank account. He's making $30m.

Canelo is around -300 in most places, which is still insane and free money!

Edit: Also, Rigondeaux is on the undercard in what will be an exhibition. Still, I'm glad he's finally back in the ring.

I'm going to go with the general public on this one and pick Cotto.

Saul seems to be a favorite among dedicated fans.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RFX45

Just throwing it out there but after thinking it through, the fight might not be as easy for Canelo as most think.

Cotto still got some power and can box. He can cut the ring too, he was Moneys most difficult fight so I think he can move around Canelo.

He will definitely get hit and I think his old legs will give out in the later rounds especially if Canelo works on his body and work on him fast early on, the younger one should have the better stamina. Age might have weakened his chin too.

I still wouldn't give him the edge in betting though but maybe being a champ and looking great the past two fights with Roach on his corner helps a lot?

In the end I still see it as a win for Canelo, maybe stoppage on 9th or 10th?

But definitely not a walk int he park for him.

Between the two Saul has the worst stamina.

Miguel can fade in the final third of fights if he goes all out in the first 2/3'rd.

But Saul has well below average stamina. He always has to pace himself. He needs to wait for his energy meter bar to recharge before launching an azzault.

Miguel will outbox the very flat footed Saul and get jacked on the cards. There's always at least one judge that gives Saul tons of points for simply being Saul.

I'm happy about Ronda's defeat. She continually tried to troll the boxing world by saying she'd beat up the best pro male boxers in a fistfight.

To have sustained success playing the arrogant fighter one should be skilled enough to always win. At the very least if a villain loses it shouldn't be humiliating--think the times Ali got beat up, when he wasn't shot yet, it was still competitive.

In fact I always admired how outspoken Floyd is. The best way to communicate anything is directly. Unlike you I don't glow with butterflies as he puts on his "classy" act for ronda. He's subtly patronizing when a stab straight to her face will do.

As a diehard Floyd fan I was severely disappointed when he didn't light manny the fuck up during the promos for all the latter's bullshit throughout the years. Same sentiment for the act he's putting on towards ronda's defeat.
Oscar's a phony who couldn't say sh1t to Floyd's face. He only began to speak AFTER Floyd kicked his AZZ. Unlike you I don't relate to fakes and back them.
I didn't invent the great white hope. White Americans did. It's apart of boxing history and still was recently. Deal with it.

The Great White Hope is tasked with fulfilling a racist agenda--try to beat the uncontrollable and dominant black fighter that many basic people hate. manny's hype was largely based off of this. They foolishly thought he could do it.

Then why are you overlooking ronda's bullshit. IDK if you got a crush on blonde white girls or what. Or perhaps you feel the need to be a charity of sympathy since a female just got KTFO. You obviously keep up with enough boxing news as you know how Floyd's acting "classy" yet conveniently ignored ronda's trolling.

I'll make it clear for you. Many of the qualities you despise in Floyd are traits I find admirable:

*speaking one's mind even if it means being hated
*a monster ego that creates an unshakable self-belief and commands attention
*rebelliousness
*a health dose of disrespect for the establishment and status quo

If Floyd was inauthentic like Sugar Ray Leonard, Oscar, or manny, I wouldn't be as big a fan. Honesty is good.

I am not a Rhonda fan for many of the same reasons that I was not a Mayweather fan. I don't see the need to run your mouth. I admire both of them for their skill, but I really wished that someone could have shut Floyd's mouth the way Holm shut Rhonda's.

I liked Rhonda a bit more in that she never played it safe. Sure, it exposed her, but that what happens when you really test yourself. Mayweather arguably fought fighters off prime and played it safe, orchestrating things so that the possibility of his losing was minimal. Mosley. Manny. Both in the twilight of their careers when Mayweather fought them. Call it what you will. I personally think that his undefeated record, and the inclination of boxing managers to keep their records untarnished, rather than always putting on the best fights, something that cannot happen because of the way boxing is organized, is what is making boxing less and less popular. Yeah, he made a whole room full of cash. Good for him. Didn't make many of his fights any less boring.

People were picking up Mayweather fights to see if someone could shut his mouth. Mayweather knew that playing the heel and running his mouth was his cash cow, so he kept jawing. It's disingenuous for his fans to then accuse anyone who dislikes Mayweather of doing so because they are closet racists who are somehow uncomfortable with an "uncontrollable and dominant black fighter". While there are certainly racists who disliked Mayweather, the reason that he was disliked by so many people was not because they were secretly racists.

Yes, the "Great White Hope" was a disgraceful part of the history of American boxing, but no one, no one, has been using language like that here except for you, and it falls down under the least bit of scrutiny anyway. The other half of your narrative, which you never touch on, are the black fighters that Mayweather faced and who were cheered on by many boxing fans. I think that it would be very uncomfortable for you to have to paint someone like Shane Mosley as some sort of subservient black man. Manny presents an easy target for you because he is not black and more then just a little wierd.

At least you are honest that you like Floyd because he is a dickhead. There are plenty of ways of being honest without being a dickhead. Floyd has the same personality as the fratty dude who everyone dislikes because he "calls it like it is."

None of your comments about Manny, Floyd, or Rousey paint a good picture of you, man. You sounds like a borderline racist and not just a little misogynistic.

I liked Rhonda a bit more in that she never played it safe. Sure, it exposed her, but that what happens when you really test yourself.

She was exposed due to a lack of skill not because of her opposition. There are many boxers (Floyd included) that faced greater challenges than her. Some of them loss, but it wasn't in humiliating fashion during their primes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LA Guy

Mayweather arguably fought fighters off prime and played it safe, orchestrating things so that the possibility of his losing was minimal. Mosley. Manny. Both in the twilight of their careers when Mayweather fought them.

Don't be silly. Both guys didn't fight Floyd as soon as possible because the reward wasn't worth the risk. This video documents the Mosley biz. I trust you're aware of the full story behind Floyd-manny due to how publicized it was, so that won't be covered in this post.

Floyd's call out was in 2005. Go to about 1 minute in and you'll witness Shane's weak excuse.

The fact is Shane and manny only wanted to fight Floyd once they were older withering fighters in need of a payday. You also conveniently make no mention of how...FLOYD ALSO AGES when fights are delayed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LA Guy

Didn't make many of his fights any less boring.

Then I hope you didn't pay for any of his fights. Each purchase would be a conscious decision to get ripped off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LA Guy

While there are certainly racists who disliked Mayweather

Yes

Quote:

Originally Posted by LA Guy

Yes, the "Great White Hope" was a disgraceful part of the history of American boxing, but no one, no one, has been using language like that here except for you, and it falls down under the least bit of scrutiny anyway. The other half of your narrative, which you never touch on, are the black fighters that Mayweather faced and who were cheered on by many boxing fans. I think that it would be very uncomfortable for you to have to paint someone like Shane Mosley as some sort of subservient black man.

Shane was rooted for largely because people wished he could shut Floyd up. People don't root for a fighter because he has an agreeable personality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LA Guy

Manny presents an easy target for you because he is not black and more then just a little wierd.

manny isn't white but was perfect for the hope role due to how subservient he is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LA Guy

At least you are honest that you like Floyd because he is a dickhead. There are plenty of ways of being honest without being a dickhead. Floyd has the same personality as the fratty dude who everyone dislikes because he "calls it like it is."

None of your comments about Manny, Floyd, or Rousey paint a good picture of you, man. You sounds like a borderline racist and not just a little misogynistic.

I don't care. You think I expect people to like me for going against the popular opinion.

As for frat guys they're some of the friendliest people I encountered.

1) Shane was rooted for largely because people wished he could shut Floyd up. People don't root for a fighter because he has an agreeable personality.

2) Manny isn't white but was perfect for the hope role due to how subservient he is.

3) I don't care. You think I expect people to like me for going against the popular opinion.

1) Precisely. Most people didn't cheer for anyone and against Mayweather because they were racist. They cheered against Floyd because he plays the heel and acts like a dickhead. I'm glad we've settled that now.

2) See (1).

3) You're getting it twisted again. Borderline racism and a misogyny reflects poorly on you as a man, regardless of what other people think.

Yeah, I agree about the skills not translating well. I did a poor job communicating, but my quote was in reply to people saying Rousey could beat Mayweather.

It'll be a good night for Cotto's bank account. He's making $30m.

Canelo is around -300 in most places, which is still insane and free money!

Edit: Also, Rigondeaux is on the undercard in what will be an exhibition. Still, I'm glad he's finally back in the ring.

These odds are stupid. The smart bet is on Cotto, in that case. I think that he is an underdog, but not that much of an underdog. He can box and he can rip the body. Maybe that will be enough to beat Canelo, or even be enough to put him away in the later rounds.

And there's a huge positive correlation between being a 'dickhead' and being the main and often greatest fighter of your era.

*speaking one's mind even if it means being hated
*a monster ego that creates an unshakable self-belief and commands attention
*rebelliousness
*a health dose of disrespect for the establishment and status quo

Floyd isn't the only greatest fighter of his era that checks those boxes. Ali did. Tyson did to a degree. Jack Johnson most definitely does. etc

Why would I not root for fighters, especially highly skilled ones, just because the average person disapproves of their behavior and allows their feelings to be hurt by someone they never even met.

Just throwing it out there but after thinking it through, the fight might not be as easy for Canelo as most think.

Cotto still got some power and can box. He can cut the ring too, he was Moneys most difficult fight so I think he can move around Canelo.

He will definitely get hit and I think his old legs will give out in the later rounds especially if Canelo works on his body and work on him fast early on, the younger one should have the better stamina. Age might have weakened his chin too.

I still wouldn't give him the edge in betting though but maybe being a champ and looking great the past two fights with Roach on his corner helps a lot?

In the end I still see it as a win for Canelo, maybe stoppage on 9th or 10th?

But definitely not a walk int he park for him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LA Guy

These odds are stupid. The smart bet is on Cotto, in that case. I think that he is an underdog, but not that much of an underdog. He can box and he can rip the body. Maybe that will be enough to beat Canelo, or even be enough to put him away in the later rounds.

Canelo should be more than -250/300. It's a bigger mismatch than those odds, in my mind. I don't think Cotto has much of a chance. He's 35, has never really beaten a top boxer at their best, has a 3 inch reach disadvantage, and assuming there's no rehydration clause, can come in weighing at least 15 lbs less than Canelo. If Cotto is to win, I agree with you that it'll be due to putting in body work. I just don't think he can get a lucky left hook to Canelo's body early and I don't think he can last until the later rounds where the early body work will pay dividends.

I'm expecting Canelo to win and to be crowned the next PPV star. Although, I don't think they'll sell 1.5m, or even 1m, which are the numbers I've seen mentioned.

And there's a huge positive correlation between being a 'dickhead' and being the main and often greatest fighter of your era.

*speaking one's mind even if it means being hated
*a monster ego that creates an unshakable self-belief and commands attention
*rebelliousness
*a health dose of disrespect for the establishment and status quo

Floyd isn't the only greatest fighter of his era that checks those boxes. Ali did. Tyson did to a degree. Jack Johnson most definitely does. etc

Why would I not root for fighters, especially highly skilled ones, just because the average person disapproves of their behavior and allows their feelings to be hurt by someone they never even met.

No one's feeling are hurt, man. People just don't like an asshole. It's really that simple. It's nothing about his being black, for the vast majority of people. It's 1) His mouth, and 2) His choice of opponents. I mean, Berto, really? Talk about cruising.

If you want to like him precisely because he's a dick, then okay, there is really no argument. But I'd glad that we've laid to rest the false logic that says that if you don't like Mayweather, you might be some sort of closet racist.

There really is no point in trying to reason with him. He obviously loves Mayweather his like own daddy.

I can appreciate his boxing skills (mayweather) but thats about it. His fans like this guy here will alway defend his actions regardless if it has malice or anything else.

You just can't reason with his fans.

Here's you preaching earlier

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7_rocket

As a "boxing" fan you should promote boxing and not have favourtism to one fighter or race etc.

Yet your recent focus in this thread has largely been based on a retired fighter and his fans. Floyd came up the hard way, took no shortcuts, and cultivated a loyal fanbase because of it. It's better that he isn't 'exciting' to the average person--those kind of fighters cut corners in terms of their rise and have more disloyal fans for that reason.

There's tons of sh1t going on in the boxing world such as Miguel Cotto being sued because he refuses to pay up the step aside money to gennady or how Danny Garcia vs Robert Guerrero might be happening soon, but you're fascinated with Floyd fans.

Word on the Curb is that DSG-Guerrero could land in Brooklyn or LA at The Forum. #boxing

— Raging Babe (@RagingBabe) November 18, 2015

Team Guerrero was not to thrilled about fighting DSG. They had other plans (not get used up). But money talks. The fight is back on. #boxing

— Raging Babe (@RagingBabe) November 18, 2015

Subconsciously you're a bigger Floyd fan than anyone here. You get the word out for him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LA Guy

No one's feeling are hurt, man. People just don't like an asshole. It's really that simple. It's nothing about his being black, for the vast majority of people. It's 1) His mouth, and 2) His choice of opponents. I mean, Berto, really? Talk about cruising.

If you want to like him precisely because he's a dick, then okay, there is really no argument. But I'd glad that we've laid to rest the false logic that says that if you don't like Mayweather, you might be some sort of closet racist.

Here's another 'AZZhole' in boxing since you enjoy talking about them and their antics.

Miguel Cotto refuses to pay up and will abandon his belt because the sanctioning body will make gennady the mandatory challenger for winner of Miguel-Saul.

LAS VEGAS - A lawsuit between Gennady Golovkin and Miguel Cotto could come sooner than expected, but would not be in the ring but in a court of law, since the figures reveal that the agreement had the 'step aside' it may have violated a confidentiality clause they had. A source close to the organization of the event this Saturday in Las Vegas source shared that Golovkin and promoter Tom Loeffler of K2 Promotions rule out no legal action against Puerto Rican by revealing that he had to pay Kazakh $ 800,000 and $ 300,000 to the World Boxing Council as a sanction the fight.

The WBC president Mauricio Sulaiman not advance if Golovkin can file a lawsuit nor confirmed the figures that gave Miguel Cotto late Tuesday when It announced that it would not pay a million $ 100,000 to remain champion body. "There is a 'step aside agreement' registered in the WBC but I can not comment on its content because it is a confidential document between the parties and can not disclose because it is strictly confidential and only a court of law may require that it be revealed, "said Mauricio Sulaiman about it.

Golovkin arrive this weekend to Las Vegas to witness the match between Puerto Rican and Mexican boxer and there could confirm whether he is willing to take legal action against Caguas, Puerto Rico, which had agreed to pay the Kazakh to be stepped aside as special permission. The agreement was signed Cotto and Golovkin. On Saturday will meet with the specialized media and hence the promoter let see if legal action against the island, especially since not receive the amount disclosed by the four-time world, who had asked permission to make this fight with Canelo before the mandatory with GGG.

In countless interviews Miguel has displayed a reluctance to face gennady similar to how the latter wants little to do with Ward. These guys aren't down to fight anyone at anytime despite selling you a fearless warrior image, but it's okay since they act well-behaved and have 'exciting' fighting styles.