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I agree with the list as well. As for Mcd, I look at what the potential upgrade chances are.

This TE class is loaded, and 4-6 of them would be immediate upgrades.

I don't think his contract will prevent the next coach from playing a better player, if we sign one or draft one. Vance will be on the roster next year, for sure, but it doesn't have to be as #1 TE, because neither the new coach or GM are really bound to Baalke's "vision". Then after next year, Vance could be cut, and it would actually be financially reasonable._________________

All you need to do now, is find two quarterbacks (likely a starter among them), probably three halfbacks (to be safe, given Hyde's history of injury), at least one receiver (probably a starter), two tight ends, at least one guard, two defensive tackles (one starter), two inside linebackers, two or three corners, two safeties, a kicker, and a punter. Fullback is totally your call.

But once you find those 19 players this offseason (and four more wherever you'd like to fill out the roster), you'll be able to field a whole team. Also - add to those 23 players you're bringing in if you expect to do better than guys like Thad Lewis, Bruce Ellington, Aaron Burbridge, John Theus, Marcus Martin, Tank Carradine, and Eli Harold.

And this isn't even beginning to discuss how to improve upon veterans like Smith, McDonald, Beadles, Kilgore, Brooks, and Armstrong.

But if you feel like gutting the roster, I guess go ahead. Would be very interested to see if you can find better options out there for the players you're cutting or not resigning as well as filling all the other needs we ALREADY have._________________

All you need to do now, is find two quarterbacks (likely a starter among them), probably three halfbacks (to be safe, given Hyde's history of injury), at least one receiver (probably a starter), two tight ends, at least one guard, two defensive tackles (one starter), two inside linebackers, two or three corners, two safeties, a kicker, and a punter. Fullback is totally your call.

But once you find those 19 players this offseason (and four more wherever you'd like to fill out the roster), you'll be able to field a whole team. Also - add to those 23 players you're bringing in if you expect to do better than guys like Thad Lewis, Bruce Ellington, Aaron Burbridge, John Theus, Marcus Martin, Tank Carradine, and Eli Harold.

And this isn't even beginning to discuss how to improve upon veterans like Smith, McDonald, Beadles, Kilgore, Brooks, and Armstrong.

But if you feel like gutting the roster, I guess go ahead. Would be very interested to see if you can find better options out there for the players you're cutting or not resigning as well as filling all the other needs we ALREADY have.

Way to brighten an already bad day. Couldnt sleep last nite stressing about this off season....i need a life lol_________________

All you need to do now, is find two quarterbacks (likely a starter among them), probably three halfbacks (to be safe, given Hyde's history of injury), at least one receiver (probably a starter), two tight ends, at least one guard, two defensive tackles (one starter), two inside linebackers, two or three corners, two safeties, a kicker, and a punter. Fullback is totally your call.

But once you find those 19 players this offseason (and four more wherever you'd like to fill out the roster), you'll be able to field a whole team. Also - add to those 23 players you're bringing in if you expect to do better than guys like Thad Lewis, Bruce Ellington, Aaron Burbridge, John Theus, Marcus Martin, Tank Carradine, and Eli Harold.

And this isn't even beginning to discuss how to improve upon veterans like Smith, McDonald, Beadles, Kilgore, Brooks, and Armstrong.

But if you feel like gutting the roster, I guess go ahead. Would be very interested to see if you can find better options out there for the players you're cutting or not resigning as well as filling all the other needs we ALREADY have.

Way to brighten an already bad day. Couldnt sleep last nite stressing about this off season....i need a life lol

It looks a lot better if you don't get rid of guys like Brock, Bethea, Celek, Hodges, Harris, Johnson, Reaser, and Pinion for no other reason other than to move on. But it's still never going to look pretty._________________

All you need to do now, is find two quarterbacks (likely a starter among them), probably three halfbacks (to be safe, given Hyde's history of injury), at least one receiver (probably a starter), two tight ends, at least one guard, two defensive tackles (one starter), two inside linebackers, two or three corners, two safeties, a kicker, and a punter. Fullback is totally your call.

But once you find those 19 players this offseason (and four more wherever you'd like to fill out the roster), you'll be able to field a whole team. Also - add to those 23 players you're bringing in if you expect to do better than guys like Thad Lewis, Bruce Ellington, Aaron Burbridge, John Theus, Marcus Martin, Tank Carradine, and Eli Harold.

And this isn't even beginning to discuss how to improve upon veterans like Smith, McDonald, Beadles, Kilgore, Brooks, and Armstrong.

But if you feel like gutting the roster, I guess go ahead. Would be very interested to see if you can find better options out there for the players you're cutting or not resigning as well as filling all the other needs we ALREADY have.

Way to brighten an already bad day. Couldnt sleep last nite stressing about this off season....i need a life lol

It looks a lot better if you don't get rid of guys like Brock, Bethea, Celek, Hodges, Harris, Johnson, Reaser, and Pinion for no other reason other than to move on. But it's still never going to look pretty.

Maybe a future pro bowler in Buckner. Outside chance for Hyde. More remote chance for Ward and Robinson. Who knows about Armstead? We need bodies to fill spots and field a team. But realistically, other than those guys anyone can be replaced. probably with a better guy but in some cases I'd settle for a younger guy. Can't do it all in one year. So I hope that our new GM is smart enough to put together a multi-year plan. Oh, and of course, can evaluate talent well enough to pick the right guys to replace the ones we let go._________________

All you need to do now, is find two quarterbacks (likely a starter among them), probably three halfbacks (to be safe, given Hyde's history of injury), at least one receiver (probably a starter), two tight ends, at least one guard, two defensive tackles (one starter), two inside linebackers, two or three corners, two safeties, a kicker, and a punter. Fullback is totally your call.

But once you find those 19 players this offseason (and four more wherever you'd like to fill out the roster), you'll be able to field a whole team. Also - add to those 23 players you're bringing in if you expect to do better than guys like Thad Lewis, Bruce Ellington, Aaron Burbridge, John Theus, Marcus Martin, Tank Carradine, and Eli Harold.

And this isn't even beginning to discuss how to improve upon veterans like Smith, McDonald, Beadles, Kilgore, Brooks, and Armstrong.

But if you feel like gutting the roster, I guess go ahead. Would be very interested to see if you can find better options out there for the players you're cutting or not resigning as well as filling all the other needs we ALREADY have.

Way to brighten an already bad day. Couldnt sleep last nite stressing about this off season....i need a life lol

It looks a lot better if you don't get rid of guys like Brock, Bethea, Celek, Hodges, Harris, Johnson, Reaser, and Pinion for no other reason other than to move on. But it's still never going to look pretty.

Maybe a future pro bowler in Buckner. Outside chance for Hyde. More remote chance for Ward and Robinson. Who knows about Armstead? We need bodies to fill spots and field a team. But realistically, other than those guys anyone can be replaced. probably with a better guy but in some cases I'd settle for a younger guy. Can't do it all in one year. So I hope that our new GM is smart enough to put together a multi-year plan. Oh, and of course, can evaluate talent well enough to pick the right guys to replace the ones we let go.

I don't really care to look at who has probowl potential on our team. Sure, Buckner does. But probowls usually come with winning. There are okay players on this roster that could just be good enough to help this team win, and if we can start winning, you'll see borderline players suddenly get probowl consideration. A guy like Hyde, on a winning team, playing 16 games (I know it's a stretch), is probably vying for a probowl, at some point. A guy like Celek can be one of these solid #2 TE that helps a #1 TE (not Vance) get solid production (I know it's a stretch again, but put that in the context of a winning team). Dashon Goldson and Ahmad Brooks were never great talents, they were just solid players, and as soon as the team started winning, the perception changed, and were thought of as probowl level players. They were not, they were the same players they were before. They just weren't anonymous anymore. I see several players on our roster who could play roles on a winning team. Not necessarily as the leaders of that winning team, and that's why we need premium talent, the real playmakers, the difference makers. An elite pass rusher, an elite pass catcher, and obviously a QB, and already this team could be close to winning. No need to gut the roster in order to rebuild._________________

Agreed big, this is a multi-year rebuild and we need bodies. Some of those guys might be gone thanks to improved competition, but for the most part they'll be needed. We have at least 10 picks in the upcoming draft (maybe 11, but not sure on Derek Carrier's trade and what was needed for that to go through). Assuming we don't do anything that nets us more draft picks, we'll need 5-7 free agents coming in to fill the team's roster (that 5-7 includes potential guys that we might re-sign). We definitely have enough to replenish the team and get a boost in talent, but not enough to start clearing house.

If we can get two impact free agents, five roster fillers (think anywhere from Craig Dahl to Donte Whitner), and future starters with our first three picks, that would be a great offseason. Can't imagine we'll be very good, but we could have a lot more in place (maybe a pass-rush, and some skill players worth a damn)._________________

Agreed big, this is a multi-year rebuild and we need bodies. Some of those guys might be gone thanks to improved competition, but for the most part they'll be needed. We have at least 10 picks in the upcoming draft (maybe 11, but not sure on Derek Carrier's trade and what was needed for that to go through). Assuming we don't do anything that nets us more draft picks, we'll need 5-7 free agents coming in to fill the team's roster (that 5-7 includes potential guys that we might re-sign). We definitely have enough to replenish the team and get a boost in talent, but not enough to start clearing house.

If we can get two impact free agents, five roster fillers (think anywhere from Craig Dahl to Donte Whitner), and future starters with our first three picks, that would be a great offseason. Can't imagine we'll be very good, but we could have a lot more in place (maybe a pass-rush, and some skill players worth a damn).

We're ready to massively overpay to get who we want. If somehow we could get Alshon Jeffery and a veteran QB, it would go a long way making us look less trainwreck-y, at least. I'd break the bank for Jeffery, biggest contract to a receiver ever, I don't care. In fact, the first thing our new GM should say during his introductory press conference is: "To all potential free agents out there: we have a lot of money. If you're thinking about re-signing with your team, wait a minute. We're going to pay. We're going to turn this around." Would that be considered tampering, even though it's not targetting any one player or organization?_________________

Agreed big, this is a multi-year rebuild and we need bodies. Some of those guys might be gone thanks to improved competition, but for the most part they'll be needed. We have at least 10 picks in the upcoming draft (maybe 11, but not sure on Derek Carrier's trade and what was needed for that to go through). Assuming we don't do anything that nets us more draft picks, we'll need 5-7 free agents coming in to fill the team's roster (that 5-7 includes potential guys that we might re-sign). We definitely have enough to replenish the team and get a boost in talent, but not enough to start clearing house.

If we can get two impact free agents, five roster fillers (think anywhere from Craig Dahl to Donte Whitner), and future starters with our first three picks, that would be a great offseason. Can't imagine we'll be very good, but we could have a lot more in place (maybe a pass-rush, and some skill players worth a damn).

Do you have a list of our draft picks next year? Tried looking yesterday but couldn't find it._________________
El ramster on the sig

All you need to do now, is find two quarterbacks (likely a starter among them), probably three halfbacks (to be safe, given Hyde's history of injury), at least one receiver (probably a starter), two tight ends, at least one guard, two defensive tackles (one starter), two inside linebackers, two or three corners, two safeties, a kicker, and a punter. Fullback is totally your call.

But once you find those 19 players this offseason (and four more wherever you'd like to fill out the roster), you'll be able to field a whole team. Also - add to those 23 players you're bringing in if you expect to do better than guys like Thad Lewis, Bruce Ellington, Aaron Burbridge, John Theus, Marcus Martin, Tank Carradine, and Eli Harold.

And this isn't even beginning to discuss how to improve upon veterans like Smith, McDonald, Beadles, Kilgore, Brooks, and Armstrong.

But if you feel like gutting the roster, I guess go ahead. Would be very interested to see if you can find better options out there for the players you're cutting or not resigning as well as filling all the other needs we ALREADY have.

I'm assuming they bring back Draughn as well as Dorsey and Hamm. For whatever reason, Hamm has many lives on this roster. Point being is that it's a total rebuild right now and the question was who has to go? It did not ask to play fantasy GM. Those guys are replaceable. Draft, free agency, undrafted free agents etc. Doesn't mean they will all be let go, but they need to be._________________

NextBigThing wrote:

rice wasn't close to do as good as his stats would lead one to assume

okie dokie!!! He only had 1200 rec yards at 40, but he clearly isnt as good as it appears.

All you need to do now, is find two quarterbacks (likely a starter among them), probably three halfbacks (to be safe, given Hyde's history of injury), at least one receiver (probably a starter), two tight ends, at least one guard, two defensive tackles (one starter), two inside linebackers, two or three corners, two safeties, a kicker, and a punter. Fullback is totally your call.

But once you find those 19 players this offseason (and four more wherever you'd like to fill out the roster), you'll be able to field a whole team. Also - add to those 23 players you're bringing in if you expect to do better than guys like Thad Lewis, Bruce Ellington, Aaron Burbridge, John Theus, Marcus Martin, Tank Carradine, and Eli Harold.

And this isn't even beginning to discuss how to improve upon veterans like Smith, McDonald, Beadles, Kilgore, Brooks, and Armstrong.

But if you feel like gutting the roster, I guess go ahead. Would be very interested to see if you can find better options out there for the players you're cutting or not resigning as well as filling all the other needs we ALREADY have.

I'm assuming they bring back Draughn as well as Dorsey and Hamm. For whatever reason, Hamm has many lives on this roster. Point being is that it's a total rebuild right now and the question was who has to go? It did not ask to play fantasy GM. Those guys are replaceable. Draft, free agency, undrafted free agents etc. Doesn't mean they will all be let go, but they need to be.

I see who has to go and who eventually needs to go as two very different things. On your list - there are a couple without contracts that don't need to be resigned, absolutely. But there's no reason to cut guys now who might need to be on the team in 2017. If you think you're going to find a host of UDFAs to replace these players, you will end up in the same exact position as we are now - with players like Wilhoite, Jerrod-Eddie, Celebration, etc._________________

All you need to do now, is find two quarterbacks (likely a starter among them), probably three halfbacks (to be safe, given Hyde's history of injury), at least one receiver (probably a starter), two tight ends, at least one guard, two defensive tackles (one starter), two inside linebackers, two or three corners, two safeties, a kicker, and a punter. Fullback is totally your call.

But once you find those 19 players this offseason (and four more wherever you'd like to fill out the roster), you'll be able to field a whole team. Also - add to those 23 players you're bringing in if you expect to do better than guys like Thad Lewis, Bruce Ellington, Aaron Burbridge, John Theus, Marcus Martin, Tank Carradine, and Eli Harold.

And this isn't even beginning to discuss how to improve upon veterans like Smith, McDonald, Beadles, Kilgore, Brooks, and Armstrong.

But if you feel like gutting the roster, I guess go ahead. Would be very interested to see if you can find better options out there for the players you're cutting or not resigning as well as filling all the other needs we ALREADY have.

All you need to do now, is find two quarterbacks (likely a starter among them), probably three halfbacks (to be safe, given Hyde's history of injury), at least one receiver (probably a starter), two tight ends, at least one guard, two defensive tackles (one starter), two inside linebackers, two or three corners, two safeties, a kicker, and a punter. Fullback is totally your call.

But once you find those 19 players this offseason (and four more wherever you'd like to fill out the roster), you'll be able to field a whole team. Also - add to those 23 players you're bringing in if you expect to do better than guys like Thad Lewis, Bruce Ellington, Aaron Burbridge, John Theus, Marcus Martin, Tank Carradine, and Eli Harold.

And this isn't even beginning to discuss how to improve upon veterans like Smith, McDonald, Beadles, Kilgore, Brooks, and Armstrong.

But if you feel like gutting the roster, I guess go ahead. Would be very interested to see if you can find better options out there for the players you're cutting or not resigning as well as filling all the other needs we ALREADY have.

Way to brighten an already bad day. Couldnt sleep last nite stressing about this off season....i need a life lol

It looks a lot better if you don't get rid of guys like Brock, Bethea, Celek, Hodges, Harris, Johnson, Reaser, and Pinion for no other reason other than to move on. But it's still never going to look pretty.

Maybe a future pro bowler in Buckner. Outside chance for Hyde. More remote chance for Ward and Robinson. Who knows about Armstead? We need bodies to fill spots and field a team. But realistically, other than those guys anyone can be replaced. probably with a better guy but in some cases I'd settle for a younger guy. Can't do it all in one year. So I hope that our new GM is smart enough to put together a multi-year plan. Oh, and of course, can evaluate talent well enough to pick the right guys to replace the ones we let go.

I don't really care to look at who has probowl potential on our team. Sure, Buckner does. But probowls usually come with winning. There are okay players on this roster that could just be good enough to help this team win, and if we can start winning, you'll see borderline players suddenly get probowl consideration. A guy like Hyde, on a winning team, playing 16 games (I know it's a stretch), is probably vying for a probowl, at some point. A guy like Celek can be one of these solid #2 TE that helps a #1 TE (not Vance) get solid production (I know it's a stretch again, but put that in the context of a winning team). Dashon Goldson and Ahmad Brooks were never great talents, they were just solid players, and as soon as the team started winning, the perception changed, and were thought of as probowl level players. They were not, they were the same players they were before. They just weren't anonymous anymore. I see several players on our roster who could play roles on a winning team. Not necessarily as the leaders of that winning team, and that's why we need premium talent, the real playmakers, the difference makers. An elite pass rusher, an elite pass catcher, and obviously a QB, and already this team could be close to winning. No need to gut the roster in order to rebuild.

I'm just using that as a proxy for "they're good enough and young enough to build around"._________________