withholding by the Social Security Administration of records of Harry Bounel, whose Social securit

I don't post really at all, but this topic has really fascinated me and I thought I'd weigh in because this HelloBruce character is spreading
falsehoods and I really hate ignorant people, so here goes.

I'd like to answer something Mr. Bruce mentioned early on in the thread. He asked anyone to list any "experts" who have claimed that Barak's BC is
fake. Well I can name no less than 50 experts, but decided on just one. Not for any other reason than this man has testified at trials both at the
State and Federal levels AND he is a member of the EXACT firm that Barack H. Obama is using as his defense counsel to defend his BC at court.

His name is Mr. Reed Hayes and is a certified document examiner and forensic handwriting analyst. Here is a snippet from the article as well as the
link:

“We have obtained an affidavit from a certified document analyzer, Reed Hayes, that states the document is a 100 percent forgery, no doubt about
it,” said Cold Case Posse Lead Investigator Lt. Mike Zullo in an exclusive interview with WorldTribune.

This is a key development, asserts Lt. Zullo, because Mr. Hayes is a certified handwriting analyst and forensic document examiner who worked
repeatedly for Perkins Coie, a reputable law firm, and was deemed a dependable professional in their legal cases. Moreover, Perkins Coie has defended
Mr. Obama in his legal jousts on the birth certificate matter over the past five years."

Now that that's out of the way and there can be no argument against without discrediting Obamas own legal team, let's move on.

The citizenship issue has many angles but I have chosen just one which seems to me to be the most legitimate. Barack Obama has stated that he went to
Pakistan in 1981. During that time, Pakistan was under military rule and disallowed any travel there by US Citizens unless it was under a Diplomatic
Atache. Being that Mr. Obama was in College at that time and had no Diplomatic status, nor had parents with any such title, I find it hard to believe
that Obama was indeed a US Citizen at that time. In fact, had he been an Indonesian citizen, which some claim, Mr. Obama would have had no problem
entering Pakistan.

In effect, Mr. Obama himself alludes to this when he registered in Illinois to become an attorney. In the portion of his affidavit where it asks if
the Petitioner has ever used any other names, Mr. Obama lied and said no. We all know this to be false because his birth name is Barry Soetoro. The
only justification for lying about something that would be trivial to you or I is that Mr. Obama has something to hide that involves either his name
or place of birth. If I were to lie on any State Affidavit, I would be charged with a Felony, but of course, I'm just a commoner.

Next, I'll focus on Mr. Obamas SSN as there's a lot of misinformation in this thread by Mr. Bruce regarding how the SS Administration operates.
First, no one at all can deny that Mr. Obama's current number is indeed NOT his from birth. To say otherwise is an obvious attempt to derail and
cause arguments.
The Social Security Administration has never recycled SSN's and never will. This is from the SSA's own website:

"The SSA is adamant that numbers are never recycled and likely won't be for the foreseeable future. Given the nine-digit format, there are a hair
under 1 billion possible permutations, taking into account that numbers like 000-00-0000 and other oddities aren't distributed. (An elaborate
mathematical guesstimate here quotes the precise figure as 988,911,099.) So far, the SSA has doled out roughly 400 million numbers. Population
researchers calculate that roughly 300 million people will require new Social Security numbers by the year 2050—about 230 million native births plus
68 million immigrants, give or take 50 million all told. Barring unforeseen circumstances, such as a meteor strike or cloning boom, the current
enumeration system should last nearly another century."

HelloBruce claims earlier in this thread that "Of course Obama has changed his number...because people have seen it!"

Well Mr. Bruce...assuming you're right (which you are not, but I'll play Devils Advocate for you), the SSA would need only make a brand new number
for Mr. Obama seeing as they still have about 600 Million numbers they could use which have never been used by anyone according to their own
website.

Furthermore, the idea that anyone could possibly use POTUS' SSN for anything like identity theft is absurd on it's face. So there's no need to ever
change his own SSN for any reason...except to hide something.

HelloBruce is the loudest one in this room, which means he is the weakest one in this room. He is assuming that no one will do any research on his
word-vomit replies and continues to parrot the same responses over and over. Well Mr. Bruce, just because you shout something from the mountain top
over and over doesn't make what you're saying any more true. In fact, it shows me that you really have no other argument other than you are just too
closed minded to accept any alternative narrative other than the one you already have.

I admire the fact that you are outspoken and seem to genuinely like POTUS. I like the idea of the POTUS, just not a lying, deceiver such as the
current one. Now, I cannot produce any smoking gun as to whether Mr. Obama is a true US Citizen but I do have science on my side with Occams
Razor:

Occams Razor is a basic scientific principle that states: "All things being equal, the simplest answer tends to be the right one".

So I ask you Mr. Bruce, which answer is the simplest one?

1) That a man who has no verifiable SSN and no verifiable hard copy of his own Birth Certificate was able to get a US Passport in order to travel to
Pakistan when no other US Citizen could. That this same man, who lied about aliases on a State Affidavit, who produces no evidence of ever having
attended any college whatsoever besides hearsay, who no one knows anything about at all, who's own defense lawyer claims his BC is indeed a
forgery....is indeed verified enough to hold the most powerful position in the world as POTUS even though everything out of the Mans mouth has been a
complete LIE.

OR

2) This is all another elaborate hoax perpetuated by the same people who brought you the JFK Assassination, Fast and Furious, Federal Reserve, 9-11,
etc.

I think deep down you know the answer, but one can only be led to water...they can't be made to drink it.

I'm not some fly-by-night poster my friend, so don't try to compare brain pans with me because in the end, you'll only go scurrying back to your hole
ashamed to have even bothered. I'm on board for a healthy debate with you or anyone else, but parroting snopes.com or any other left wing site won't
do. Come with real facts and prove anything I've stated above to be false, and I'll be the first to agree. Screaming I'm just racist, or making
false claims as you have been throughout this thread will only make yourself look like a shill. You aren't a shill are you Mr. Bruce?

It is obvious that the SS administration is withholding info illegally in order to protect Obama.. How many times have officials blatantly done that?
Lots and lots and more each day. That doesn't mean that these cases have no merit when there isn't enough evidence, because usually the evidence is
prevented from release or some other excuse.

It doesn't matter a whole lot that the cases that are frivolous are quashed quickly, but those that do have merit are also quashed for any possible
reason they can create for it to be quashed.

Just because there are some that are frivolous or without evidence gives these people a way to say they ALL are. The only people that deny this do so
because they don't want it to be true. Everyone else can see it happening as plain as day.

The people that work for all these agencies in government are afraid of what will happen to them if they stand up to the illegal wishes of our
president, and that is also common knowledge.

There are quite a few people working for the president that are committing felonies for their master, so the fact that the SS admin is suppressing
what should be public record is not a stretch of reality in any way, shape or form.

Mr. Bruce, us "birthers" are aware that the cases have been dismissed but have they been dismissed because there's no legitimacy or for other
reasons. My vote is "other" reasons and this is why.

Justice Roberts of the Supreme Court actually changed a law written by Congress in order to favor POTUS' argument. That has never happened before
and is truly illegal.

All FISA courts have been allowing illegal wiretapping of US Citizens even though it's ADMITTEDLY unconstitutional. This favors POTUS.

All legal proceedings for Fast and Furious have been stopped by numerous Federal Judges. This favors POTUS.

Mr. Obama once sat as head of the UN Security Council. This is illegal by any POTUS per the Constitution. The Justice Dept. refused to prosecute.
This favors POTUS.

Mr. Obama has twice killed American Citizens with drones without due process which is guaranteed by the Bill of Rights and Constitution. The
Justice Dept. refused to prosecute. This favors POTUS.

Mr. Obama has created over 20 different Czars which are answerable only to him and not the "People". This is a complete and utter violation of the
Constitution. The Justice Department refuses to prosecute. This favors POTUS.

Mr. Obama has changed the Obamacare law 13+ times in the last year alone. This is illegal per the Constitution. The Justice Dept. refuses to
prosecute. This favors POTUS.

Do you see what I'm getting at Mr. Bruce? It's blatantly obvious to anyone with any common sense that Mr. Obama is above the law in both the
courts eyes and the Justice Dept's eyes. Both continually favor POTUS and never allow anything to go to trial no matter what proof the Petitioner
has.

Dunno about you, but POTUS should not be above any law set forth in the Constitution. His worst offense being the killing of a teenager who was a
US Citizen and deserved a trial in front of a jury of his peers...not a drone attack.

While some of the above may be characterized as "color of law", my assertion is that all law is based on precedent, and the precedents that the
current POTUS is setting does not bode well for We The People.

Miniscuzz
“We have obtained an affidavit from a certified document analyzer, Reed Hayes, that states the document is a 100 percent forgery, no doubt about
it,” said Cold Case Posse Lead Investigator Lt. Mike Zullo in an exclusive interview with WorldTribune.

I find it hard to believe that Obama was indeed a US Citizen at that time.

Why, there is no record of Obama obtaining Indonesian citizenship, nor is there any record of Obama denouncing his US citizenship.

In fact, had he been an Indonesian citizen, which some claim, Mr. Obama would have had no problem entering Pakistan.

There was no difficulty in a US citizen entering Pakistan at that time either.

In the portion of his affidavit where it asks if the Petitioner has ever used any other names, Mr. Obama lied and said no.

We all know this to be false because his birth name is Barry Soetoro.

Wrong again, his birth name is Barack Hussein Obama, as per his 2 birth certificates.

As to his name on his application....

According to the Attorney Registration & Disciplinary Commission of the Supreme Court of Illinois, the “full former name(s)” field is reserved
for names which have previously appeared on the Illinois Master Roll of Attorneys and is NOT meant to include any names adoption prior to obtaining a
license to practice law in Illinois. – Jeff Schreiber. Another point is that I have seen no evidence that Barrack Obama ever legally changed his
name to “Soetoro”. Yes, I know about the school registration form, but that is not a legal document. I know of children who share joint custody of
two parents and are called by different surnames (for example on health records) depending on which parent they are with.

And guess where the Selective Service registrations are marked and recorded? Lucky for Obama, it’s his native Chicago.

Document Location Number Indicates Obama Selective Service Form was Created in 2008
First, there is the Document Location Number (DLN) on the form. In the upper right hand corner of the Selective Service form SSS Form1, there is the
standard Bates-stamped DLN, in this case
“0897080632,” which I’ve labeled as “A” on both the SSS Form and the computer printout document. On the form, it reflects a 2008 creation,
but on the printout, an extra eight was added in front of
the number to make it look like it is from 1980, when it was actually created in 2008.

The Document Locator Number (DLN) is an automatic function...(snip).. with the first two
digits comprising the year, and it was not changed
to “08″ in error.
So if the form was filed g processed in 1980, how did it get a 2008 DLN?!

But, checking the history of SSS Form 1 (see www.reginfo.gov...#), it’s apparent that in
February 1980, the Selective Service agency withdrew a “Request for a new OMB control number” for SSS Form 1 (see also, here)–meaning the agency
canceled its previous request for a new form, and one was never issued in “FEB 1980″.

Barack Obama’s Signature is Dated After Postal Stamp Certifying His Signature
Barack H. Obama signed the SSS Form 1′s “Today’s date” as July 30, 1980, labeled “D“. But the Postal Stamp reflects the PREVIOUS day’s
date of July 29, 1980, labeled “E“.

Postal Stamp is Incorrect, Discontinued in 1970
(snip) The new Postal Service officially began operations on July 1, 1971. Why was an old, obsolete postmark round dater stamp used
almost ten (10) years after the fact to validate a legal document . . . that just happened to be Barack Obama’s suspicious Selective Service
registration form?

Form Shows Barack Obama didn’t have ID
The SSS Form 1 states “NO ID”, labeled “F“. Since that’s the case, then how did the Hawaiian postal clerk know that the submitter was really
Barack H. Obama, who may have been on summer break
from attending Occidental College in California.

The Selective Service Data Mgt. Center Stonewalled for Almost a Year on Obama Registration, Until Right Before the Election.
(snip)

"Sir: There may be an error in his file or many other reasons why his registration cannot be confirmed on-line. However, I did confirm with our Data
Management Center that he is, indeed, registered with the Selective Service System, in compliance with Federal law.

Sincerely,
Janice L. Hughes/SSS"

Then, they suddenly found the record on September 9, 2008 (prior to my October 13, 2008 request), and stated that his record was filed on
September 4, 1980. (snip)

On the previous FOIA response, they stated that it was filed on September 4, 1980. In my second request I mentioned that Obama could not have filed it
in Hawaii on September 4, 1980 as he was
attending Occidental College in California, the classes of which commenced August 24, 1980.

Other Questions: Missing Selective Service Number, FOIA
Response Dated Prior to FOIA Request, Missing Printout Page
Where is Obama’s Selective Service number (61-1125539-1) on the card? (Snip)

The last transaction date is 09/04/80 [DS: labeled "G"], but the date of the printout is 09/09/08 [DS: labeled "H"]. My FOIA was dated October 13 so
why did they prepare the printout BEFORE I submitted my FOIA? I gave them no “heads up” that I was sending it. In fact it was not mailed until
late October–around the 25th. Also, notice the printout was page 1 of 2 [DS: labeled "I"].

I noticed that the DLN number in upper right corner (labeled “A“) has only ten (10) digits with the first two being 08 , but the DLN number
shown on the computer screen printout has eleven (11) digits with the first two being 80. It clearly indicates
that the “8″ was added at the beginning of the DLN number, in order to appear that it was issued in 1980 and wasn’t simply a reversal...

The recently retired federal agent has requested that I disclose his identity so that there is no question as to the source of the
information.
His name is Stephen Coffman.

I did make an error by stating that Mr. Obamas birthname was Soetoro, that was an error on my part, but doesn't dissuade from the fact that by
merely attending grade school in Indonesia, Mr. Obama renounced any claim to US citizenship by proxy.

Indonesian law explicitly states that dual citizenship is not permitted and, according to a 1958 Indonesian law, only Indonesian citizens could be
enrolled in either of the two schools Barry attended in Jakarta, St. Fransiskus Assisi Catholic School and Menteng Elementary.

Investigative reporter Aaron Klein, in World Net Daily, points out that a 2007 Associated Press photograph taken by Tatan Syuflana, an Indonesian AP
reporter and photographer, surfaced on the www.Daylife.com photographic website showing an image of Obama’s registration card at Indonesia’s
Fransiskus Assisi school. In the picture, Obama is registered under the name Barry Soetoro by his stepfather, Lolo Soetoro. The school card lists
Barry Soetoro as a Indonesian citizen born Aug. 4, 1961, in Honolulu, Hawaii. His religion is listed as Muslim

President Barack Obama, while growing up in Indonesia was an Indonesian Muslim known as Barry Soetoro. When did he change his name, renounce Islam and
regain U.S. citizenship?

Please explain how Mr. Obama could attend grade school in a country which did not allow dual citizenship?? You can't, because he'd be the first
case of that happening in Indonesia. This is perhaps the most valid argument I've found for the birther argument and as far as I can tell, cannot
really be refuted, and hasn't been by any reliable source.

I must admit that you are correct about the alias argument, I should've dug a bit deeper into Illinois State Law regarding that, so you have me
there.

Had you followed the Breitbart link in my post, you'd see that a member of Obamas legal team is the exact expert who says the BC is indeed a
forgery. I'm not going to post it again and claiming that is a lie is well....a lie sir. It's quoted and linked, look for yourself.

You have no refute as to why POTUS is using a recycled SSN when I proved by quoting ssa.gov itself which states that it doesn't recycle numbers.
Why then, does POTUS have a recycled number? Claiming you've somehow disproved this argument is complete nonsense, because you haven't. You just
dance around that subject with claims.

Also, do you even know who owns the domain name obamaconspiracy.org that you keep shoving down our throats?? Obviously not, because it's so
left-leaning that I believe you are the only person in the virtual world that's even quoting such a biased site.

Why ask me what source I used when I posted about Obama having travelled to Pakistan in 1981?? Would you like me to post a link to the speech in
which Mr. Obama himself says it? I did take some time to research a bit on the whole Pakistan issue and it does appear you are correct about
Americans being allowed to freely travel there in 1981. I was one of those swept up in that apparent lie, and I've now been corrected on that. One
thing that did come up in that research though was why Mr. Obama chose to leave that out of both of his books. It appears that he only mentions this
a few days after someone had been caught looking up his passport records during the 2008 election cycle.

Miniscuzz
that by merely attending grade school in Indonesia, Mr. Obama renounced any claim to US citizenship by proxy.

So you think any US citizen that attends a school in another country somehow renounces any claim to their US citizenship....

Just stop and read what you just wrote, and you will realise how silly it sounds!

Indonesian law explicitly states that dual citizenship is not permitted

It does? how about showing us that law...

and, according to a 1958 Indonesian law, only Indonesian citizens could be enrolled in either of the two schools Barry attended in Jakarta,
St. Fransiskus Assisi Catholic School and Menteng Elementary.

Again, how about showing us that law....

Please explain how Mr. Obama could attend grade school in a country which did not allow dual citizenship??

how about showing us that Indonesia does not allow dual citizenship... and that Obama was a Indonesian citizen.

You also are not aware that

However, according to school officials SaveFrom.net at the Assisi School, it was customary for students to be
enrolled with their father's last name and religion.

Law No. 62 of 1958, Law on the Citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia describes the laws for adopting children but none of them applied to
Obama. To be eligible for adoption, children had to be under the age of five years old. Obama was 6 when he moved to Indonesia and thus
ineligible.

also

Claim: Foreign students couldn’t attend schools in Indonesia in the 1960s. FALSE. Both citizens and foreigners over eight years old were
required to attend schools if they were available. In addition, Indonesians were banned from alien schools, but foreigners were not banned from
Indonesian schools. Although TheFogbow.com researchers have searched extensively, we have never found any evidence to show that an American citizen
child would be unable to attend an Indonesian government school. Rather, all information located to date indicates that non-Indonesian students were
able to attend such schools. Obama in IndonesiaBarack Obama was living in Indonesia with his mother and stepfather from late 1967-1971. Friends of
TheFogbow.com have found an excellent article on the history and state of Indonesian public schools in 1960 from The Elementary School Journal.
(Available for purchase at the link. Used under the Fair Use Doctrine as quotation of short passages in a scholarly or technical work.)
"Indonesian Elementary Education: Two Decades of Change," by R. Murray Thomas and Winarno Surachmad. The Elementary School Journal, published by The
University of Chicago Press: Vol. 63, No.1 (Oct., 1962): pp 6-14. Article Stable URL: www.jstor.org...

also

Another source describes a 1955 law implemented in 1963. "The New Order regime consequently adopted policies to eliminate the distinctions
marking Chinese Indonesians from other Indonesian citizens. It banned alien schools and urged all Chinese (citizens and non-citizens) to attend
Indonesian national schools." -- "Nationalism and ethnic conflict in Indonesia" By Jacques Bertrand (emphasis added). (Google Books Link)

You can't, because he'd be the first case of that happening in Indonesia.

Wrong, I just did....

and as far as I can tell, cannot really be refuted, and hasn't been by any reliable source.

yes it has....

You have no refute as to why POTUS is using a recycled SSN

There is no proof Obama's SSN is recycled...

Why then, does POTUS have a recycled number?

How about you prove Obama's SSN is recycled....

Why ask me what source I used when I posted about Obama having travelled to Pakistan in 1981??

Because I wanted to know where you got the lie that Americans could not enter Pakistan...

I did take some time to research a bit on the whole Pakistan issue

Cutting and pasting from a birther site with no references is not really research, is it. When you do that, as you just found out, all you finish up
with is lies and made up stories, as we have seen here!

Law No. 62 of 1958, Law on the Citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia
Publisher National Legislative Bodies
Author Republic of Indonesia
Publication Date 1 August 1958
Reference IDN-110
Cite as Law No. 62 of 1958, Law on the Citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia [Indonesia], 1 August 1958, available at:
www.refworld.org... [accessed 26 December 2013]
Comments This is an unofficial translation. The Law was signed by the President on 29 July 1958, promulgated on 1 August 1958, and published in the
Government Gazette No. 113 of 1958.
Disclaimer This is not a UNHCR publication. UNHCR is not responsible for, nor does it necessarily endorse, its content. Any views expressed are solely
those of the author or publisher and do not necessarily reflect those of UNHCR, the United Nations or its Member States.

Not only was Perkins Coie the ones that handled the Obama birth certificate cases, but more specifically, Robert Bauer.

Robert Bauer then left the firm to become Obama's personal Whitehouse Counsel. He remained so until June 30, 2011, when he returned to Perkins Coie
and the Counsel for the DNC, to he replaced by Reummler.

He was counsel to the DNC during the first election, and advised Obama since he arrived in Washington in 2005. He knew Obama, and all his personal
information, likely better than anyone besides Michelle O.

In case some of you don't know, his wife in the infamous Anita Dunn, also close to Obama, the self admitted Moa worshipper. Anita Dunn was the former
director of communications for the Whitehouse through November 2009.

Now, on to Reummler. She was the principal
associate deputy attorney general at the Justice
Department starting in 2009, and principal deputy to the Whitehouse counsel. (Robert Bauer).

She was also deputy counsel to Bill Clinton, led the case against Enron, and it gets better.

In October 2011, Ruemmler said that there is no
evidence of the White House intervening in
Solyndra’s loan guarantee to benefit a campaign
donor. Her letter to the House Energy and
Commerce Committee also denies an effort by
committee Republicans for access to internal White
House communications.

(snip)

On January 4th, 2012,
President Obama claimed authority to appoint
Richard Cordray and others under the Recess
Appointments Clause. Counsel Ruemmler asserted
that the appointments were valid...

A third federal appeals court ruled Wednesday that President Obama violated the Constitution last year when he made recess appointments to the
National Labor Relations Board, adding more weight to the case as it goes before the Supreme Court in the justices’ next session.

Connections, connections, connections. Who you know, and they all link back, don't they? The big picture is now self evident, only the willfully blind
or purposefully obstinate will deny the truths.

Welp, I gotta admit, I was really duped by all the disinformation swirling around about this whole birther thing. While I do think there may be
questions, Mr. Bruce has actually shown me that even I can be wrong...which I rarely admit.

I looked into that Indonesian Law of 1958 and since Mr. Obama was six years old at the time of his adoption, he did not in fact become an Indonesian
citizen. Had he been 5 or under, circumstances would have been different.

While I still have some questions regarding Mr. Obamas childhood and all the secrecy surrounding his college years, I must admit that Mr. Bruce has
won this argument in my eyes.

I'm glad I popped in today and learned that even I can be wrong on a subject I thought I knew a bit about. While I hate being wrong, I'm glad
that I was corrected and I'm man enough to admit it. Carry on Mr. Bruce.

Law No. 62 of 1958, Law on the Citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia

I had already posted that above, did you bother to actually read it? If you had read it you would have seen

(1)A foreign child of less than 5 years age who is adopted by a citizen of the Republic of Indonesia acquires the citizenship of the Republic of
Indonesia, if such an adoption is declared legal by the Pengadilan Negeri at the residence of the person adopting the child.

Where is lil Bush, Clinton, Bush sr., Reagan's birth certificate or Social Security number?
That is right, i forgot they get a free pass. I wonder if any "birthers" wanted to see John 'Panama' McCain's long form? Nahhh...

Is it too late to see Condoleezza Rice, Colin Powell, and Bobby Jindal's birth certificate?
Or does that sound racist?

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