Battle has just started in Lugansk! 3 citizens are already dead!

Seems bastards in Kiev are trying to have Greystone Americans fight and die in Eastern Ukraine in order to start a war between US and Russia. The
bankrupt state has funds to pay $1000 a day to these mercs it seems. This Kiev Junta needs to be jailed in Nuremberg right away. God knows what else
are they planning.

So, it's ok for Crimea to ask Russia to provide security and carry out an annexation, but it's not ok for the Ukrainian government in Ukraine to ask
for help when armed mobs are taking over there security depots?

These military personal was sent in to neutralise spetnaz after Russia invaded Crimea and good intel suggested that Ukraine is riddled with pockets of
spetnaz

Fair is fair IMO

What Ukraine government you are talking about? The one in Kiev rightnow is NO government, it is a band of Thugs and Criminals. Ukraine as a nation
ceased to exist on Feb 22, 2014. Take that and Grin !!

Not sure if you have realised or not but the current government is temporal in place, elections will be held in may 2014

Nobody is under the impression the current government is now a dictatorship that is in power indefinitely against the wishes of the people of
Ukraine

I know is sad that Russia didn't keeps it puppet in Kiev for you pro Russian supporters and conspiracy theorist and anti west bashers but That's life
I'm afraid

Of course they plan to stay in power indefinitely, just look at the candidate(s)!
Poroshenko is the choice of Washington.

Edit: BTW one of demands of people in Eastern Ukraine is the canellation of illegitimate presidential election.

edit on 7-4-2014 by Etherguide because: (no reason given)

Yes I have seen the candidates nothing's changed since the last election all party's have candidates still not sure what your point is?

I don't think it matters much if a bunch of Russians posing as Ukrainians are calling for a cancellation, Ukraine and the world asked for a
cancellation of the illegal Crimean referendum under the protection of Russian armed forces

This election you are talking about is done already. Poroshenko is the president according to it.

You say that the world asked for cancellation of Crimean referendum, but it was the wish of the people (the most important thing, remember your
last post?), which is more important than some disinformed foreign TV audience (i.e. zombies).

Ha, so true. I was in Detroit this morning. There were probably three killings on the street I was delivering a load on.

Just as in any other city!
We are not talking about hit and run crimes here!
I'ts a potential WWIII situation unfolding before our eyes.

edit on 7-4-2014 by Etherguide because: (no reason given)

Not yet !! more so that this fight in Lugansk is not yet reported by any major news channels. Not even Russian channels, so am skeptical on this.

But it's nightime man!

This is huge and not only in Lugansk, at least in Nikolaev too!

So it's staged... Orders where given by somebody?

Of course! Right Sector is a militaristic orgnization with trained soldiers. They obey orders of their direct commanders, like any other military.

So how comes the Ukrainian government and forces aren't aren't aloud to stabilise the situation? Where questionable pro Russian protesters with
heavy firepower take over a government security office but Russia is aloud to intervene In Ukraine's national integrity with military force?

Has the world gone mad or have just a few forum members?

So you don't question the legitimacy of unelected nazi government? Think about it for a moment, please.

Edit: What firepower are you talking about?

edit on 7-4-2014 by Etherguide because: (no reason given)

No not really

Ukraine - Presidential elections 2014

I'll question it after the legally held democratic elections should there be signs of obvious rigging

Anybody can see that the current government is a stand in government that was thrown in as a quick replacement, there's no point bashing them or
trying to find an excuse in it to discredit and tar in hopes that it will somehow justify Russia's aggression and breaking of several UN laws and
violating Ukraine's sovereign and national boarders and breaking its commitment to the Budapest memorandum

It just won't stand, in this life or the next

edit on 7-4-2014 by TritonTaranis because: (no reason given)

Ukrainian elections will be in spring of 2015 according to the constitution. The legitimate president is Yanukovich, according to the costitution.
Current government is illegitimate according to the constitution.

edit on 7-4-2014 by Etherguide because: (no reason given)

No Yanukovich was ousted by his own government, and then exiled himself because he tried to sell Ukraine off to the Russians ... every government
attains the right to do so

When a government losses all legitimacy he/she should step down and resign there post

He wasn't impeached by the legitimate government (he was impeached post-factum by unelected parliment), he didn't resign and isn't dead. The
constitution is very clear on this.

Simply not true... I'm not sure where you have been reading from but anyway...

Ukraine's disgraced former president will be kicked out of his own party this weekend as it attempts a radical overhaul to repair the damage done by
his "catastrophic" rule, a senior party figure has said.

Borys Kolesnikov, the deputy head of the Party of Regions, said that Viktor Yanukovych and his inner clique would be formally purged at a conference
on Saturday, where the party will debate how to mend its reputation ahead of new elections scheduled for May.

What's even more important to the constitution is the wishes of the people who a government serves

edit on 7-4-2014 by
TritonTaranis because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-4-2014 by TritonTaranis because: (no reason given)

Did I miss something? Why is it not true? Care to argue for your point?

And yes, wishes of the people are most important, and that's why there is a legitimate democratic process, so it's not turning into
anarchy and clan wars (like it is now in Ukraine, look at Timoshenko/Poroshenko or Avakov/Yarosh conflicts).

I've argued my point? please scroll up, read and reply

So under yours and others logic, if a democratic government were to be voted in, let's say 80% in favour and 20% against, this means the 20% has the
right to break away and form a new government, burn down the streets take over police, security, and government buildings and become a break away
state?

The vast majority of Ukraine was against closer ties to Russia, only majority... in a "handful" of Ukrainian city's was in favour of closer ties to
Russia...

This does not make a majority Nazis simply because they disagree with you, it is there country, and as proven to you even Yanukovichs own government
kicked him out...

Yanukovch himself has stated he was wrong to invite Russia in to Ukraine's Crimea region, he clearly knows he was played by the Russians and there
true intentions

Ha, so true. I was in Detroit this morning. There were probably three killings on the street I was delivering a load on.

Just as in any other city!
We are not talking about hit and run crimes here!
I'ts a potential WWIII situation unfolding before our eyes.

edit on 7-4-2014 by Etherguide because: (no reason given)

Not yet !! more so that this fight in Lugansk is not yet reported by any major news channels. Not even Russian channels, so am skeptical on this.

But it's nightime man!

This is huge and not only in Lugansk, at least in Nikolaev too!

So it's staged... Orders where given by somebody?

Of course! Right Sector is a militaristic orgnization with trained soldiers. They obey orders of their direct commanders, like any other military.

So how comes the Ukrainian government and forces aren't aren't aloud to stabilise the situation? Where questionable pro Russian protesters with
heavy firepower take over a government security office but Russia is aloud to intervene In Ukraine's national integrity with military force?

Has the world gone mad or have just a few forum members?

So you don't question the legitimacy of unelected nazi government? Think about it for a moment, please.

Edit: What firepower are you talking about?

edit on 7-4-2014 by Etherguide because: (no reason given)

No not really

Ukraine - Presidential elections 2014

I'll question it after the legally held democratic elections should there be signs of obvious rigging

Anybody can see that the current government is a stand in government that was thrown in as a quick replacement, there's no point bashing them or
trying to find an excuse in it to discredit and tar in hopes that it will somehow justify Russia's aggression and breaking of several UN laws and
violating Ukraine's sovereign and national boarders and breaking its commitment to the Budapest memorandum

It just won't stand, in this life or the next

edit on 7-4-2014 by TritonTaranis because: (no reason given)

Ukrainian elections will be in spring of 2015 according to the constitution. The legitimate president is Yanukovich, according to the costitution.
Current government is illegitimate according to the constitution.

edit on 7-4-2014 by Etherguide because: (no reason given)

No Yanukovich was ousted by his own government, and then exiled himself because he tried to sell Ukraine off to the Russians ... every government
attains the right to do so

When a government losses all legitimacy he/she should step down and resign there post

He wasn't impeached by the legitimate government (he was impeached post-factum by unelected parliment), he didn't resign and isn't dead. The
constitution is very clear on this.

Simply not true... I'm not sure where you have been reading from but anyway...

Ukraine's disgraced former president will be kicked out of his own party this weekend as it attempts a radical overhaul to repair the damage done by
his "catastrophic" rule, a senior party figure has said.

Borys Kolesnikov, the deputy head of the Party of Regions, said that Viktor Yanukovych and his inner clique would be formally purged at a conference
on Saturday, where the party will debate how to mend its reputation ahead of new elections scheduled for May.

What's even more important to the constitution is the wishes of the people who a government serves

edit on 7-4-2014 by
TritonTaranis because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-4-2014 by TritonTaranis because: (no reason given)

Did I miss something? Why is it not true? Care to argue for your point?

And yes, wishes of the people are most important, and that's why there is a legitimate democratic process, so it's not turning into
anarchy and clan wars (like it is now in Ukraine, look at Timoshenko/Poroshenko or Avakov/Yarosh conflicts).

I've argued my point? please scroll up, read and reply

So under yours and others logic, if a democratic government were to be voted in, let's say 80% in favour and 20% against, this means the 20% has
the right to break away and form a new government, burn down the streets take over police, security, and government buildings and become a break away
state?

The vast majority of Ukraine was against closer ties to Russia, only majority... in a "handful" of Ukrainian city's was in favour of closer ties to
Russia...

This does not make a majority Nazis simply because they disagree with you, it is there country, and as proven to you even Yanukovichs own government
kicked him out...

Yanukovch himself has stated he was wrong to invite Russia in to Ukraine's Crimea region, he clearly knows he was played by the Russians and there
true intentions

You are describing Maidan here where I put in bold.

Speaking of those "handful of cities in favour of Russia" (including 2 Hero Cities) returned to Russia after 23 years of separation. Do you really
have any problems with it?

Seems bastards in Kiev are trying to have Greystone Americans fight and die in Eastern Ukraine in order to start a war between US and Russia. The
bankrupt state has funds to pay $1000 a day to these mercs it seems. This Kiev Junta needs to be jailed in Nuremberg right away. God knows what else
are they planning.

So, it's ok for Crimea to ask Russia to provide security and carry out an annexation, but it's not ok for the Ukrainian government in Ukraine to ask
for help when armed mobs are taking over there security depots?

These military personal was sent in to neutralise spetnaz after Russia invaded Crimea and good intel suggested that Ukraine is riddled with pockets of
spetnaz

Fair is fair IMO

What Ukraine government you are talking about? The one in Kiev rightnow is NO government, it is a band of Thugs and Criminals. Ukraine as a nation
ceased to exist on Feb 22, 2014. Take that and Grin !!

Not sure if you have realised or not but the current government is temporal in place, elections will be held in may 2014

Nobody is under the impression the current government is now a dictatorship that is in power indefinitely against the wishes of the people of
Ukraine

I know is sad that Russia didn't keeps it puppet in Kiev for you pro Russian supporters and conspiracy theorist and anti west bashers but That's
life I'm afraid

Of course they plan to stay in power indefinitely, just look at the candidate(s)!
Poroshenko is the choice of Washington.

Edit: BTW one of demands of people in Eastern Ukraine is the canellation of illegitimate presidential election.

edit on 7-4-2014 by Etherguide because: (no reason given)

Yes I have seen the candidates nothing's changed since the last election all party's have candidates still not sure what your point is?

I don't think it matters much if a bunch of Russians posing as Ukrainians are calling for a cancellation, Ukraine and the world asked for a
cancellation of the illegal Crimean referendum under the protection of Russian armed forces

This election you are talking about is done already. Poroshenko is the president according to it.

You say that the world asked for cancellation of Crimean referendum, but it was the wish of the people (the most important thing, remember your
last post?), which is more important than some disinformed foreign TV audience (i.e. zombies).

edit on 7-4-2014 by Etherguide because: (no reason given)

This Crimean referendum you say was voted on by the people of Crimea...

You forget was under foreign occupation... You forget that almost 36% are Ukrainians and tartars much of which boycotted the 123% landslide victory
only ever seen in places such as North Korea

You forget that Russian troops stationed In Crimea was also as in previous elections allowed to vote as they was in this referendum which is a whole
next level of rigged

while I do not doubt that it would have been a victory for pro Russian supporters in the Crimea anyway and under different circumstances IE not
occupation by the other candidate, the fact remains that the referendum was ILLEGAL, the fact remains it was clearly rigged...

The fact is now... you're trying to say that under these same illegal referendums other minority's in majority Ukrainian city's can use the same
illegal frame work to break away while under the influence and instruction of the opposition

NO, They cannot

The Ukrainian government and only the Ukrainian government withholds the right to extinguish and act against any outside influence and trouble within
its boarders, namely those armed mobs trying to seize government and security forces buildings, and nothing and on not planet does it give a neighbour
the right to violate a country's sovereign boarders and there national integrity whilst breaking its commitment to the Budapest memorandum and a
whole host of international laws for its own gains

Seems bastards in Kiev are trying to have Greystone Americans fight and die in Eastern Ukraine in order to start a war between US and Russia. The
bankrupt state has funds to pay $1000 a day to these mercs it seems. This Kiev Junta needs to be jailed in Nuremberg right away. God knows what else
are they planning.

So, it's ok for Crimea to ask Russia to provide security and carry out an annexation, but it's not ok for the Ukrainian government in Ukraine to ask
for help when armed mobs are taking over there security depots?

These military personal was sent in to neutralise spetnaz after Russia invaded Crimea and good intel suggested that Ukraine is riddled with pockets of
spetnaz

Fair is fair IMO

What Ukraine government you are talking about? The one in Kiev rightnow is NO government, it is a band of Thugs and Criminals. Ukraine as a nation
ceased to exist on Feb 22, 2014. Take that and Grin !!

Not sure if you have realised or not but the current government is temporal in place, elections will be held in may 2014

Nobody is under the impression the current government is now a dictatorship that is in power indefinitely against the wishes of the people of
Ukraine

I know is sad that Russia didn't keeps it puppet in Kiev for you pro Russian supporters and conspiracy theorist and anti west bashers but That's
life I'm afraid

Of course they plan to stay in power indefinitely, just look at the candidate(s)!
Poroshenko is the choice of Washington.

Edit: BTW one of demands of people in Eastern Ukraine is the canellation of illegitimate presidential election.

edit on 7-4-2014 by Etherguide because: (no reason given)

Yes I have seen the candidates nothing's changed since the last election all party's have candidates still not sure what your point is?

I don't think it matters much if a bunch of Russians posing as Ukrainians are calling for a cancellation, Ukraine and the world asked for a
cancellation of the illegal Crimean referendum under the protection of Russian armed forces

This election you are talking about is done already. Poroshenko is the president according to it.

You say that the world asked for cancellation of Crimean referendum, but it was the wish of the people (the most important thing, remember your
last post?), which is more important than some disinformed foreign TV audience (i.e. zombies).

edit on 7-4-2014 by Etherguide because: (no reason given)

This Crimean referendum you say was voted on by the people of Crimea...

You forget was under foreign occupation... You forget that almost 36% are Ukrainians and tartars much of which boycotted the 123% landslide victory
only ever seen in places such as North Korea

You forget that Russian troops stationed In Crimea was also as in previous elections allowed to vote as they was in this referendum which is a whole
next level of rigged

while I do not doubt that it would have been a victory for pro Russian supporters in the Crimea anyway and under different circumstances IE not
occupation by the other candidate, the fact remains that the referendum was ILLEGAL, the fact remains it was clearly rigged...

The fact is now... you're trying to say that under these same illegal referendums other minority's in majority Ukrainian city's can use the same
illegal frame work to break away while under the influence and instruction of the opposition

NO, They cannot

The Ukrainian government and only the Ukrainian government withholds the right to extinguish and act against any outside influence and trouble within
its boarders, namely those armed mobs trying to seize government and security forces buildings, and nothing and on not planet does it give a neighbour
the right to violate a country's sovereign boarders and there national integrity whilst breaking its commitment to the Budapest memorandum and a
whole host of international laws for its own gains

You are living in a fantasy world, Crimeans are overwhelmingly for Russia. You may come to Crimea this summer if there will be no war (beautiful beach
resorts there) and see for youself.

I think all Russian cities will return to Russia eventually. Not only Lugansk, Donetsk and Kharkov, but also Odessa and even Kiev to mention the most
important.

Where's the proof to your claims of this 90% number? Your ass by chance? Look at the Ukraine voting maps and tell me it does not look almost 50/50
are in support of closer ties with Russia over the west. Just because your media says it does not make it true, hell western media has yet to even
show evidence of the mass of Russian troops on the Ukraine border. All these articles yet no pictures or video?

I agree with your points about the Russian occupation during the Crimea referendum. However, the exact SAME tactics were used in Kiev! After the Kiev
violence began, one minute the government said they would hold early elections next month (the legal way of changing the government), the next minute
nope the president is just fleeing instead? (the illegal way of changing leaders). That's a coup. Also, funny how the Kiev protests were peaceful
for months up until right after America's own John McCain makes a visit and suddenly people are gunning eachother down in the streets?

Give me a break. Yes the Crimea referendum was ill advised and illegal, however so it was happened in Kiev. You cannot have it both ways. Either you
support both changes of power in Kiev and the Crimea or you support neither. I support neither because I will not be a western hypocrite.

The west had this coming for attempting to topple another countries leadership. Hell it just came out they have been trying the same thing in Cuba go
figure. US gov never stops.

Seems bastards in Kiev are trying to have Greystone Americans fight and die in Eastern Ukraine in order to start a war between US and Russia. The
bankrupt state has funds to pay $1000 a day to these mercs it seems. This Kiev Junta needs to be jailed in Nuremberg right away. God knows what else
are they planning.

So, it's ok for Crimea to ask Russia to provide security and carry out an annexation, but it's not ok for the Ukrainian government in Ukraine to ask
for help when armed mobs are taking over there security depots?

These military personal was sent in to neutralise spetnaz after Russia invaded Crimea and good intel suggested that Ukraine is riddled with pockets of
spetnaz

Fair is fair IMO

What Ukraine government you are talking about? The one in Kiev rightnow is NO government, it is a band of Thugs and Criminals. Ukraine as a nation
ceased to exist on Feb 22, 2014. Take that and Grin !!

Not sure if you have realised or not but the current government is temporal in place, elections will be held in may 2014

Nobody is under the impression the current government is now a dictatorship that is in power indefinitely against the wishes of the people of
Ukraine

I know is sad that Russia didn't keeps it puppet in Kiev for you pro Russian supporters and conspiracy theorist and anti west bashers but That's
life I'm afraid

Of course they plan to stay in power indefinitely, just look at the candidate(s)!
Poroshenko is the choice of Washington.

Edit: BTW one of demands of people in Eastern Ukraine is the canellation of illegitimate presidential election.

edit on 7-4-2014 by Etherguide because: (no reason given)

Yes I have seen the candidates nothing's changed since the last election all party's have candidates still not sure what your point is?

I don't think it matters much if a bunch of Russians posing as Ukrainians are calling for a cancellation, Ukraine and the world asked for a
cancellation of the illegal Crimean referendum under the protection of Russian armed forces

They are not "posing" as Ukrainians, the ARE Ukrainians! How hard is it to accept that Russia culture is very strong in eastern Ukraine and many
people there are ethnically Russian? You complain about a Ukrainian and Tartar minority in Crimea, but according to you, ethnic Russian majority in
eastern Ukraine are spetsnaz provocateurs.

I think that you're just in shock that the MSM has lied to you all this time by claiming that the Maiden protests was the Ukrainian majority
revolting against a Russian minority in Kiev. Turns out that the rioters in Maiden were minority fascists who are openly neo-Nazi, and now they are
not only terrorizing Ukrainians who refuse to support them, but they are also fighting each other for power. Do you even know that Right Sector has
been surrounding and interfering with parliament for weeks now? They are about to carry out Maiden 2.0.

And no, they are not neo-Nazi just because they don't fit an agenda like you claim. They are neo-nazi because they idolize WWII collaborators, tore
down monuments of sacrifices made during WWII, use nazi symbolism, they seig heil each other, march on the streets yelling that they are going to kill
Moscovites and Jews, trash Jewish cemeteries, etc etc et

Somewhere I read recently that in WWII, even the German SS was ashamed of the horrendous atrocities that Banderites i.e. Ukrainian SS committed on the
Poles, Jews, Russians and other Slavics etc. They killed 500K people and these Banderites were the only criminal SS branch that was spared any
punishment in the Nuremberg.

These idiots are still following the agenda that even the Germans have dropped right after WWII. This demeanor is poisonous and has to be dealt very
very firmly. It is sad that West is encouraging these elements.............just in order to weaken the Russian state.

West is playing with fire here, but then it has been taking such chances alot since the USSR broke away.

About time West gets a nice firm "CHIROPRACTIC ADJUSTMENT" that straightens out its neck and spine alignments towards internal issues
like financial mess and decaying social values.

Somewhere I read recently that in WWII, even the German SS was ashamed of the horrendous atrocities that Banderites i.e. Ukrainian SS committed on the
Poles, Jews, Russians and other Slavics etc. They killed 500K people and these Banderites were the only criminal SS branch that was spared any
punishment in the Nuremberg.

These idiots are still following the agenda that even the Germans have dropped right after WWII. This demeanor is poisonous and has to be dealt very
very firmly. It is sad that West is encouraging these elements.............just in order to weaken the Russian state.

West is playing with fire here, but then it has been taking such chances alot since the USSR broke away.

About time West gets a nice firm "CHIROPRACTIC ADJUSTMENT" that straightens out its neck and spine alignments towards internal issues
like financial mess and decaying social values.

victor7
It is sad that West is encouraging these elements.............just in order to weaken the Russian state.

The exact purpose of NATO's Operation Gladio was to encourage and support right-wing extremists in Europe to carry out clandestine operations against
left-wing groups and the Soviet Union. Operation Gladio started when the war against Nazi Germany ended. The USA has been directing these operations
in Europe for 70 years...

...and even before WWII, proxy war involving the West backing fascists against the East was occurring in Europe. Spain, Germany, Italy, etc etc. The
present has its base in the past, long before the creation of the Russian Federation and the birth of Vladmir Putin.

The west had this coming for attempting to topple another countries leadership. Hell it just came out they have been trying the same thing in Cuba go
figure. US gov never stops.

You and others keep telling that little lie, but I don't see any proof or evidence what so ever of a western coup in Kiev can you provide evidence of
this please? As I just see a Russian puppet being ousted from office

All I see is millions of Ukrainian people say no more to being under the boots of the Russians

Or are they all brainwashed Nazi zombies?

However we have seen enough evidence to close the case on a Russian invasion and interference as well as many attempted coups n the East

victor7
It is sad that West is encouraging these elements.............just in order to weaken the Russian state.

The exact purpose of NATO's Operation Gladio was to encourage and support right-wing extremists in Europe to carry out clandestine operations against
left-wing groups and the Soviet Union. Operation Gladio started when the war against Nazi Germany ended. The USA has been directing these operations
in Europe for 70 years...

...and even before WWII, proxy war involving the West backing fascists against the East was occurring in Europe. Spain, Germany, Italy, etc etc. The
present has its base in the past, long before the creation of the Russian Federation and the birth of Vladmir Putin.

Interesting why don't you better explain and prove this in another thread, it is an incredibly off topic and speculative jumbling of facts and
distortion of history

victor7
It is sad that West is encouraging these elements.............just in order to weaken the Russian state.

The exact purpose of NATO's Operation Gladio was to encourage and support right-wing extremists in Europe to carry out clandestine operations against
left-wing groups and the Soviet Union. Operation Gladio started when the war against Nazi Germany ended. The USA has been directing these operations
in Europe for 70 years...

...and even before WWII, proxy war involving the West backing fascists against the East was occurring in Europe. Spain, Germany, Italy, etc etc. The
present has its base in the past, long before the creation of the Russian Federation and the birth of Vladmir Putin.

Interesting why don't you better explain and prove this in another thread, it is an incredibly off topic and speculative jumbling of facts and
distortion of history

History is off topic. Only the present matters. Got it.

PS: you do realize that Gladio is a very real thing and that there is a lot of literature on it... Right?

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