"It's all about winning for me, and I think the Cavs are committed to doing that," he said. "But at the same time I've given myself options to this point, and like I said before, me and my team, we have a game plan that we're going to execute, and we'll see what we get."

I'm sure the players just told JT what he wanted to hear. Nothing to stop them from going back on their word in the spring.

I don't know any details of Tressel's contract, but I'd be willing to bet there is a substantial bonus clause for winning a BCS bowl game. That's a powerful incentive for JT to have the players in the game. If any of the Tat 5 get benched for the Sugar Bowl, it will be for a series or two at the most.

Four sold their 2008 Big Ten championship rings for $1,000 to $1,200 apiece; Herron sold his football jersey, pants and shoes for $1,000; and Solomon and Pryor each sold his "gold pants" trinket -- given to Buckeyes players if they beat Michigan -- for several hundred dollars. Pryor also sold a 2009 Fiesta Bowl sportsmanship award.

Tressel said he was disappointed not only because his players broke the rules, but also because they sold what he thought of as important keepsakes from their football careers.

"A number of people reached out as we've been dealing with this thing maybe to calm my thinking or whatever, and one thing said was, 'Keep in mind, Coach, you're dealing with a different generation. Back when you were growing up one guy got a trophy, maybe, and now you're dealing with a generation that if you were on the team and you were 7 years old, everyone got a trophy. Maybe this generation doesn't understand the value of awards like we did,' " Tressel said.

Ya think? The "everybody gets a trophy" philosophy of kids' sports today doesn't just devalue all trophies. Worse yet, it dulls the imperative for the loser to go home, practice and get better in order to win next time, probably a better life lesson than another dose of self-esteem.

It has been known around the program for a couple of days now that the players...at least all but Dan Herron, had committed to Tressel already to return in 2011. I just learned today that Tressel had effectively demanded that commitment as a condition of traveling to New Orleans. Interesting.

Which of them, I wonder...Pryor, Posey, Adams, Herron...the big four...would have the stones to give that man their word, and then stab him in the back after the Sugar Bowl? That is, if they give a shit what OSU people think of them for the rest of their lives.

I had assumed Herron would go pro...because his stock will never be higher, and because the stable is so full behind him in Columbus....but now I don't know. From what I have been reading and hearing, Herron hasn't decided yet.

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

This has sort of soured my perception of the Sugar Bowl. However, with them coming back... who starts at QB for the Bucks the first five games? Braxton? Bauserman? Guiton? Graham? This year's spring game is going to have lots of intrigue going along with it.

I wonder if Boom Herron could win his starting job back next year. I am reasonably sure that all the others would return to their previous rolls (Pryor back to starting QB, Posey will be back at #1/#2 WR, Adams back at starting LT, Thomas back to the bench (although it may be 3rd string by that time)). Boom, I am not so sure about, especially after the reviews that we have heard about regarding Rod Smith (apparently the second coming of Eddie George is an appropriate comparison) and we have already seen that Jaamal Berry is EXPLOSIVE (8.3 ypc and 1st Team All Big Ten KR).

Boom will make himself a UFA and a scout team (at best player) if he comes back in 2011. Kid should just tell TSV that he is out, and sit out the Sugar Bowl. Right now he is probably a 6th round pick.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

don't underestimate Senior Day for a player like Boom. If he comes back JT will give him enough carries to help his stock. Plus, it isn't necessarily a bad thing for a back to get fewer carries. As long as he looks decent when he returns and has a good Pro Day (which Buckeyes ALWAYS do) he'll be fine. By fine I mean a 4th-6th rd pick...like he'd be this year.

My questions are these, let's say we start off 5-0 next season (with Pryor on the bench due to suspension) does he get inserted as the starter upon his return? What if B. Miller is the starter with that 5-0 record, seeing as he is the future, what happens? Does JT possibly use TP as something other than a QB next season? Do we really believe all those kids are going to come back as they "promised" JT?

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

FUDU wrote:My questions are these, let's say we start off 5-0 next season (with Pryor on the bench due to suspension) does he get inserted as the starter upon his return? What if B. Miller is the starter with that 5-0 record, seeing as he is the future, what happens? Does JT possibly use TP as something other than a QB next season? Do we really believe all those kids are going to come back as they "promised" JT?

Just alluded to this in the other thread, but peruse TP's numbers against the top five or six teams he played against, that is, anyone with a clue.

Hard to believe they are gonna get much worse QB play next year with Miller, or anyone else.

FUDU wrote:My questions are these, let's say we start off 5-0 next season (with Pryor on the bench due to suspension) does he get inserted as the starter upon his return? What if B. Miller is the starter with that 5-0 record, seeing as he is the future, what happens? Does JT possibly use TP as something other than a QB next season? Do we really believe all those kids are going to come back as they "promised" JT?

Just alluded to this in the other thread, but peruse TP's numbers against the top five or six teams he played against, that is, anyone with a clue.

Hard to believe they are gonna get much worse QB play next year with Miller, or anyone else.

Stop it. Check the other thread. No way can Miller play as well as Pryor Conviction.

FUDU wrote:My questions are these, let's say we start off 5-0 next season (with Pryor on the bench due to suspension) does he get inserted as the starter upon his return? What if B. Miller is the starter with that 5-0 record, seeing as he is the future, what happens? Does JT possibly use TP as something other than a QB next season? Do we really believe all those kids are going to come back as they "promised" JT?

Just alluded to this in the other thread, but peruse TP's numbers against the top five or six teams he played against, that is, anyone with a clue.

Hard to believe they are gonna get much worse QB play next year with Miller, or anyone else.

I haven't seen the stats, but I have no doubt they are as bad as you say they are. I'm just wondering, then, what you think would have happened with Bauserman under center instead of Pryor? This is a one loss team with Pryor taking the snaps and accounting for most of the offense. And the team they lost to is pretty damn good. I just don't think they would have been near as good with any of the other QBs on the roster starting.

FUDU wrote:My questions are these, let's say we start off 5-0 next season (with Pryor on the bench due to suspension) does he get inserted as the starter upon his return? What if B. Miller is the starter with that 5-0 record, seeing as he is the future, what happens? Does JT possibly use TP as something other than a QB next season? Do we really believe all those kids are going to come back as they "promised" JT?

Just alluded to this in the other thread, but peruse TP's numbers against the top five or six teams he played against, that is, anyone with a clue.

Hard to believe they are gonna get much worse QB play next year with Miller, or anyone else.

I haven't seen the stats, but I have no doubt they are as bad as you say they are. I'm just wondering, then, what you think would have happened with Bauserman under center instead of Pryor? This is a one loss team with Pryor taking the snaps and accounting for most of the offense. And the team they lost to is pretty damn good. I just don't think they would have been near as good with any of the other QBs on the roster starting.

I don't claim to know much about the others. I go by what I see, and frankly, haven't seen much of them.

What I did see was a guy who was poor against step-up competition, a guy that the coach took some heat for the way he "corraled" him, when, if you look at what really happened out there...he may have been handled like he needed to be.

I know this, TP has some real problems throwing the football, and more real problems reading defenses (which is the reason for the struggles against good teams.) Not sure about anyone else out there, but it's an awful short list at the collegiate level as far as having these problems AND being an elite player.

In the NFL, where the reading of defenses is even more paramount.....can't believe hardly anyone is looking at this guy as a quarterback.

Bottom line, a decent player is causing ass aches with the program. Not nearly good enough to put up with the shit ILO. Heisman candidate Lead's balls.

We lose 3 games minimum IMO with anyone but TP at QB, why?, simply b/c we have no Wells or MoC at RB. Bauserman would need that type of back to have any hopes of pulling off a Krenzel type season at QB. Until OSU gets a true, top notch, hand the ball off to him every play type back they will need an athletic dual threat style QB at the helm.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

FUDU wrote:My questions are these, let's say we start off 5-0 next season (with Pryor on the bench due to suspension) does he get inserted as the starter upon his return? What if B. Miller is the starter with that 5-0 record, seeing as he is the future, what happens? Does JT possibly use TP as something other than a QB next season? Do we really believe all those kids are going to come back as they "promised" JT?

Just alluded to this in the other thread, but peruse TP's numbers against the top five or six teams he played against, that is, anyone with a clue.

Hard to believe they are gonna get much worse QB play next year with Miller, or anyone else.

Stop it. Check the other thread. No way can Miller play as well as Pryor Conviction.

Pryor is a hell of a rebounder, but Miller is a better passer today, and as elusive as a barnyard chicken. Not potentially. Now.

You are absolutely right about Braxton Miller's passing arm and his elusiveness in space being light years ahead of what Pryor had going at a similar point in his career. And Pryor will never have the "shake" that Miller has today.

But all of that won't necessarily make Miller a competent, winning QB in the Big Ten as a true freshman...not with an experienced Pryor as the alternative.

31-4. Yeah...he sucks.

As for Tressel....nobody...save a handful of sanctimonious pseudo-fans and/or committed Pryor-haters...wanted to see the four OSU starters benched for the Sugar Bowl.

Not the Sugar Bowl people, obviously...not Tressel...not Bobby Petrino or the Razorbacks, who don't want an empty victory if they should win...not the OSU teammates of the disciplined players...not college football fans nationwide, who want to see the best players in bowl games.

Tressel did what he could to make sure the players don't get away with these violations without meaningful punishment. If they renege on their pledge to Tressel to return in 2011, their punishment will be more symbolic than anything...estrangement from the OSU fan base forever...but it will still be meaningful. If they don't, they serve a 5-game (or 3-4 if they are reduced on appeal) suspension...pretty stiff penalty for selling a piece of jewelry.

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

Dan, I admit to being a Pryor hater. I think the kid represents everything that is wrong with college sports. Ohio Stadium also sells not one extra ticket or jersey becasue of him. Program and legacy make the money, not TP. I fully admot that TP has been the difference in a few games, but seriously doubt that the Bucks would have been that much worse record-wise without him.

I do think JT missed a real statement opportunity. Screw the world. What does this game mean to tSV? He has lifetime employment. He missed a chance for those who dislike where this is all going to make a real statement and have the team rally like Holtz's Razerbacks back in the day.

I sincerely wish that he'd have told these 4 to hit the bricks, enjoy the NFL work stoppage, and suggest that TP work on his pass route running with Posey.

I will agree that Miller will be great! Reminds me alot of Tyrod Taylor.

till we wobble in our shoes.

Last edited by jb on Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tressel was given a shit sandwich. His players were suspended, and his AD, his conference commish, and Sugar Bowl officials cut him off at the knees by delaying the suspension. Does he just give Gene Smith, Gordon Gee, Jim Delaney, and BCS officials the finger? Why the hell is this on him, and not the wishy-washy NCAA? If they deserved to be out of the bowl game (which was the original suggested penalty by the OSU compliance department) then why weren't they?

His solution with the signed pledge is a copout, but hell, it's better then nothing. And it keeps him clean with the upper level people. This is a guy who suspended his starting QB that had moved an offense of rudderless suck in 2004, a team that lost to Northwestern, to being an offensive power at the end of the year. Troy takes a $500 handshake, gets suspended for 2 games and doesn't make the trip to San Antonio. Sure, Teddy and Zwick were able to get it done in the Alamo Bowl, but that loss of Troy for those few games led to the Texas debacle the next year with the QB switching in and out. If Troy is up to speed and starts against Texas in 2005, we have no Vince Young national title. Domino effect, boys.

jb wrote:Dan, I admit to being a Pryor hater. I think the kid represents everything that is wrong with college sports.

Really? Up until this relatively trivial incident, what in the world would make you say that?

What has he ever done outside displaying some of the entirely normal and expected teenage immaturity, and a penchant for saying stupid shit on his Twitter account? He shows the arrogance one might expect from having his ass kissed since he was in grade school, but holy hyperbole!

His "game", or lack of it, at the QB position is obviously a legit subject for OSU fan criticism, but..."Everything that is wrong with college sports"?

Wow.

What does that make Reggie Bush and Cecil Newton and Bobby Lowder?

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

jb wrote:Dan, I admit to being a Pryor hater. I think the kid represents everything that is wrong with college sports.

Really? Up until this relatively trivial incident, what in the world would make you say that?

What has he ever done outside displaying some of the entirely normal and expected teenage immaturity, and a penchant for saying stupid shit on his Twitter account? He shows the arrogance one might expect from having his ass kissed since he was in grade school, but holy hyperbole!

His "game", or lack of it, at the QB position is obviously a legit subject for OSU fan criticism, but..."Everything that is wrong with college sports"?

Wow.

What does that make Reggie Bush and Cecil Newton and Bobby Lowder?

They are as well. They don't excuse TP.

But let me list why:

His delayed press conference drama in HS.

The way he announced his decision.

The reason for his decision being how he'd be prepared tp play on Sunday.

"Mike Vick"

His "Leave LeBron Alone" cry.

Twitter, as you mention.

His whole entitled attitude of talking about being great before he accomplishes anything.

I want to stay to break records and be a legend (um, team title never referenced)

The "If I playued in a spread, I'd be god" rant (remeber why you wanted a multiple attack dumb bass?)

And selling his rings and gold pants was the last straw for me.

I hate the kid, Wiz. Sorry, but I do. His ego trip is far beyond any teenage immaturity. It is pure entitlement and lack of accountability. Can't wait for him to reneg on this "pledge" (and I still think JT thinks he's Randall Floyd with this cop out nonsense, but I understand better now the pressures why I suppose) and get the hell out of Dodge before he realizes that he needs another year at tOSU a hell of alot more than tOSU needs his sorry, spoiled ass.

I think he's a prick and can't stand him. And that has nada to do with his game. He's a hell of a player, even with his passing limitations. A rare talent overly scrutinized on the field.

Will watch tomorrow night for the seniors (Rolle, Dane, Homan, Cam, etc.), not that shitbag. Done with him.

Playing here is the closest thing to heaven. Really, I mean it's amazing to be in a place where the fans truly cherish their football team and stick behind them win or lose. We players love them, too. I feel a sense of accomplishment playing here, we are a special breed of football players with a great opportunity." ~ tOSU LB Brian Rolle

Not a lot to disagree with in your post, JB. No arguing he's an arrogant drama queen.

(though I would argue that the drama at letter-of-intent time was not of his making. His dad was threatening him with withholding consent if he didn't give PSU another look. He was always all Buckeye. I wrote this about it at the time) http://bit.ly/ekhalo

And he talked about the career records, and his legacy in the record books at OSU because he knew he was already closing in on almost every career offensive record they have at Ohio State for QB's...always in the context of wanting to stay in Columbus for four years.

Certainly arguable that the team might be better off without him next year, all things considered, off the field as well as on. I get all that.

But it's quite a leap from there to "represents everything that's wrong....."

That's all. (well, not quite all)

One thing all OSU fans can I think agree on...as talented as he is, he's not as good we wanted him to be. No national championships, after all. So he gets blamed for our disappointment. Funny that.

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

I'm with JB in that TP is a dooshbag and I dislike him as a person (as much as one can without meeting someone) but I will not go along with the notion that Braxton Miller just comes in and outshines TP on the field.

Maybe Miller will be more advanced than TP when judged at the same time frame of their careers at OSU, but to think let alone expect Miller to be better than Pryor in any phase of the game (outside of mechanics) right out of the box is nuts.

Even with Miller's first snap at OSU his resume is still the best of the best among HS kids and that is all he has played against, meanwhile despite his multiple flaws TP has played against some of the best in college.

IMO the chances that Miller turns our to be better than Pryor are 60/40 but we won't see it come to fruition until Miller is a soph. The better player in 2011 is probably still TP, but the first 5 games will impact everything.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

Dan, Not saying I am right. Not saying I am fullly rational. Not saying I am as informed as you. But I think I am informed enough, and I've seen no growin' up in that kid. I'd like to think that if I were a rabid scUM fan I would still see Dick Rod for what he is and want him gone.

That's how I feel about TP, except I wouldn't be so ignorant to ignore his on the field contributions, which are immense. Then again, given how shitty the "leaders and legends" are this past season, and the joke that was the non-conf schedule, I can't see more than 3 losses with Bauserman anyway; enough to make Earle happy. ;-)

I have no problem with you disagreeing with me on TP. But I am convinced he lessens the program, and what it was supposed to stand for. BNest I can tell, the core value of of the program is expediency now. And the more I think on it, the more I know that the whole SEC except Vandy is dirty, and at least Cam doesn't act like a pampered dooshbag waiting for the world to ride his jock 24 / 7. Thus I find TP far more loathesome.

Neither is Andrew Luck in the classroom , off the field, or on the draft board. I blame Carmen Policy for not involving a qualified Ollie Luck in the rebirth. ;-)

YMMV.

A final word on tSV. I thought alot about what you and Fairvis wrote and it makes perfect polictical sesne. I understand how naive this POV is, esp in light of the enablement of Clarett until he was on no value, but the brand JT made of himself made it seem like he stood for something. He and the program are so bullettproof, they could have easily told the Sugar Bowl and BCS to stuff it. An undefeated OSU team will always, always, always get the BCS title shot in this system and any bolw needs tOSU more than the other way around given the fan base and economic impact. Same reason that shitty UM team played on 1/1 . TSV could have stood up without long term consequnces. Instead, he wants to win like all of us more than anything. In the end, the "pressure" argument doesn't hold that much water with me given the Brand he's trid to develop over the years. Again, we can see it differently and I am probably hopelessly naive.

danwismar wrote:One thing all OSU fans can I think agree on...as talented as he is, he's not as good we wanted him to be. No national championships, after all. So he gets blamed for our disappointment. Funny that.

Ironically, I see it differently. I think Pryor is a mess when it comes to being a pro prospect. I think he is one hell of a college player and if he improved more and fans were more patient, he could be even more.

But IMO there are no NC's becasue the defense is incredibly overrated the past two years and despite being proven wrong about Dane the skilled position players are positively pedestrian. And don't get me started on the OL.

Its not all on TP.

BTW - I still think in terms of the athlete they pursue they need to swing he pendulum back some from the focus oon the spread. Worked well vs Oregon last January but ironically that was the only match up that mattered.

I do not have great expectations for tonight with this D vs Kniles and Mallett.

For some reason I see TP out of Cbus after this game. Too many things out there now including usage of a car, etc.... that leads me to believe that if the NCAA wants to really dig, they could unearth a bunch of things to hurt tOSU. Pryor might be, kind of, sort of, asked, to leave when it's all said and done. JMO

"It's all about winning for me, and I think the Cavs are committed to doing that," he said. "But at the same time I've given myself options to this point, and like I said before, me and my team, we have a game plan that we're going to execute, and we'll see what we get."

danwismar wrote:One thing all OSU fans can I think agree on...as talented as he is, he's not as good we wanted him to be. No national championships, after all. So he gets blamed for our disappointment. Funny that.

Ironically, I see it differently. I think Pryor is a mess when it comes to being a pro prospect. I think he is one hell of a college player and if he improved more and fans were more patient, he could be even more.

But IMO there are no NC's becasue the defense is incredibly overrated the past two years and despite being proven wrong about Dane the skilled position players are positively pedestrian. And don't get me started on the OL.

Its not all on TP.

BTW - I still think in terms of the athlete they pursue they need to swing he pendulum back some from the focus oon the spread. Worked well vs Oregon last January but ironically that was the only match up that mattered.

I do not have great expectations for tonight with this D vs Kniles and Mallett.

I don't have great expectations either...I picked Arkansas to win in my preview.

I do think Pryor will be a starting quarterback in the NFL within two years, however. On that I would be willing to make a small wager.

No argument whatsoever on the OL being overrated. Harder to make the case that the defense is overrated when they are #2 or #3 in the nation out of 120 FBS programs in both total defense (yards allowed) and scoring defense. What else is there? Winning? 11-1.

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

fundamentals wrote:For some reason I see TP out of Cbus after this game. Too many things out there now including usage of a car, etc.... that leads me to believe that if the NCAA wants to really dig, they could unearth a bunch of things to hurt tOSU. Pryor might be, kind of, sort of, asked, to leave when it's all said and done. JMO

After what I've been reading the last couple of days, I guess it wouldn't surprise me either. Seems like they're also setting up the possibility that Herron will leave, despite the commitment to return in 2011.

It would not surprise me either if Herron was held out of the game tonight, in anticipation of an announcement that he'll go pro.

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

danwismar wrote:One thing all OSU fans can I think agree on...as talented as he is, he's not as good we wanted him to be. No national championships, after all. So he gets blamed for our disappointment. Funny that.

Ironically, I see it differently. I think Pryor is a mess when it comes to being a pro prospect. I think he is one hell of a college player and if he improved more and fans were more patient, he could be even more.

But IMO there are no NC's becasue the defense is incredibly overrated the past two years and despite being proven wrong about Dane the skilled position players are positively pedestrian. And don't get me started on the OL.

Its not all on TP.

BTW - I still think in terms of the athlete they pursue they need to swing he pendulum back some from the focus oon the spread. Worked well vs Oregon last January but ironically that was the only match up that mattered.

I do not have great expectations for tonight with this D vs Kniles and Mallett.

I don't have great expectations either...I picked Arkansas to win in my preview.

I do think Pryor will be a starting quarterback in the NFL within two years, however. On that I would be willing to make a small wager.

No argument whatsoever on the OL being overrated. Harder to make the case that the defense is overrated when they are #2 or #3 in the nation out of 120 FBS programs in both total defense (yards allowed) and scoring defense. What else is there? Winning? 11-1.

To be roverrated, yah gotta be rated. ;-)

Competition level matters to me. Other than the Iowa game I'm just not blown away by anything other than numbers. I saw what Wisky did to them, and they were the only "very good" team they played all season.

jb wrote: I've been know to wager a pizza, but strating QB by year 2 doesn't do it for me. If he's a starter in 2015 should he come out after tonite, that would impress me.

To clarify, I'd be willing to bet the pizza of your choice, that within two years of his entering the NFL...whenever that is...he'll become a starter. No bets on how long that lasts...just that he is named the starter of the moment for his NFL team. Deal?

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

What JB is sayin is that in Year 5 or 6 and the cat is still the starter, then that is saying something. A token start here in the next 2 years is nothing. Look at who started this past Sunday.

Playing here is the closest thing to heaven. Really, I mean it's amazing to be in a place where the fans truly cherish their football team and stick behind them win or lose. We players love them, too. I feel a sense of accomplishment playing here, we are a special breed of football players with a great opportunity." ~ tOSU LB Brian Rolle

jb wrote: I've been know to wager a pizza, but strating QB by year 2 doesn't do it for me. If he's a starter in 2015 should he come out after tonite, that would impress me.

To clarify, I'd be willing to bet the pizza of your choice, that within two years of his entering the NFL...whenever that is...he'll become a starter. No bets on how long that lasts...just that he is named the starter of the moment for his NFL team. Deal?

Nahh. Deal if he starts 16 for one season if he's healthy.

In this day and age, almost everyone gets a look. Shoot, I'd have to pay up on Dennis Dixon and Troy Smith using this criteria, leyt alone Joe Webb.

jb wrote: I've been know to wager a pizza, but strating QB by year 2 doesn't do it for me. If he's a starter in 2015 should he come out after tonite, that would impress me.

To clarify, I'd be willing to bet the pizza of your choice, that within two years of his entering the NFL...whenever that is...he'll become a starter. No bets on how long that lasts...just that he is named the starter of the moment for his NFL team. Deal?

Nahh. Deal if he starts 16 for one season if he's healthy.

In this day and age, almost everyone gets a look. Shoot, I'd have to pay up on Dennis Dixon and Troy Smith using this criteria, leyt alone Joe Webb.

Edit: or I could have just + 1'd noles.

Wish I were confident enough to make the deal on your terms...but I'm not.

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

jb wrote:Never had respect for TP. came in like a doosh, acted the part, will leave jan 5th as a doosh.

I used to have respect for tSV. Ebing away daily. He missed one hell of a chance to make a program statement.

JB, I will stipulate for the court that what you say about Pryor here and in other threads I am largely in agreement with - as usual, you take it too far - but your basic message isn't one I wouldnt disagree with.

That being said, and even accounting for your Nasdaqian and Hyperbolic Ways (TM), I think you are all wet on your Vest take.

Let's leave aside that the "rule" these guys broke is complete bullshit...I mean, these guys get to walk into a room at each Bowl game they go to and fill up bags with watches, IPAD's and gawd gknows what else, all with the blessing of the NCAA, but if they sell something that is theirs - well, we can't have that now can we? They would be making a profit and that wouldn't be sporting and they might as well be pros...or something.

But I digress.

Even if you lay that aside, what you have is a 5 game suspension that tOSU clearly thinks is unwarranted and, to use the parlance of our times, fucked. They have said as much by stating that they are going to appeal it and hope to get the suspensions reduced.

So basically what you are asking the Vest to do is Unilaterally Disarm...that is, go ahead and increase the punishment on these guys, voluntarily increasing a penalty which your administration is on record as saying is too long in the first place...with no guarantee that the penalty will be reduced because you did this.

What The Fuck?

Sorry JB...I get the Pryor stuff...but what you are asking the Vest to do makes no sense at all.

jb wrote:Never had respect for TP. came in like a doosh, acted the part, will leave jan 5th as a doosh.

I used to have respect for tSV. Ebing away daily. He missed one hell of a chance to make a program statement.

JB, I will stipulate for the court that what you say about Pryor here and in other threads I am largely in agreement with - as usual, you take it too far - but your basic message isn't one I wouldnt disagree with.

That being said, and even accounting for your Nasdaqian and Hyperbolic Ways (TM), I think you are all wet on your Vest take.

Let's leave aside that the "rule" these guys broke is complete bullshit...I mean, these guys get to walk into a room at each Bowl game they go to and fill up bags with watches, IPAD's and gawd gknows what else, all with the blessing of the NCAA, but if they sell something that is theirs - well, we can't have that now can we? They would be making a profit and that wouldn't be sporting and they might as well be pros...or something.

But I digress.

Even if you lay that aside, what you have is a 5 game suspension that tOSU clearly thinks is unwarranted and, to use the parlance of our times, fucked. They have said as much by stating that they are going to appeal it and hope to get the suspensions reduced.

So basically what you are asking the Vest to do is Unilaterally Disarm...that is, go ahead and increase the punishment on these guys, voluntarily increasing a penalty which your administration is on record as saying is too long in the first place...with no guarantee that the penalty will be reduced because you did this.

What The Fuck?

Sorry JB...I get the Pryor stuff...but what you are asking the Vest to do makes no sense at all.

Wow. Wish you'd pop in more often.

And yes, you are correct. What I am asking for is naive. But so is any belief whatsoever that tSV or the OSU program is any different from any of them, from Coral gables to South Central LA.

Just deponds on who gets caught and how they fall in the NCAA's pecking order.

Hope you and the Gnati clan are well. Would love any state of the Tribe union you'd car eto throw out there, too. Did you shed atear from miles away when Ed's finally broke through the ceiling?