reddwhite wrote:i wasnt talking about legal situations like stealing killing raping etc. i was talking about social issues.

morality cant be legislated. since alot of people have alot of differnt ideas about what is and isnt morally right or wrong. ( once again besides legal matters like killing stealing raping etc.) if the intent of the constitution was to legislate morality they would have had a morality defining amendment saying this is moral this isnt.

We do that all the time: they're called laws. Laws that say rape is immoral. Laws that say murder is immoral.

TheRaven7 wrote:How is this logically any different than the Democrats claiming that Kerry lost because he wasn't liberal enough?

How is this relevant and how does this matter in any way at all? Some democrats might have said this, yes, the entire Republican party is rallying around and intensifying policies that have proven to be destructive in the past 8 years

Eh, honestly i doubt that the GOP is going to die like everyone claims it is. But then again i live in Georgia, which is traditionally a red state. I think however that Bush hurt them in the short term, but they will bounce back in one form or another. But even if they dissolve, something will have to fill the vacuum they would create and the country is still fairly 50/50 on party politics.

God id kill for a libretarian government however, they are more "conservative" than the GOP.

Something much worse. The idea that massive deregulation fixes everything is absurd. We'd end back at the era of robber barons in which an ultra-wealthy class owns everything and everyone else lives in abject poverty. I know class mobility is already kind of a joke as it is, but it would become an even bigger one

NYTimes wrote:A handful of Republican governors say they may reject portions of the federal stimulus money, raising objections from lawmakers, mayors and other critics that they are placing political ideology before the interest of constituents who need help and budgets with huge deficits.

Gov. Bobby Jindal of Louisiana announced Friday that he would reject a portion of expanded unemployment benefits that would eventually require the state to raise taxes on businesses.

And the governors of Alaska, Idaho, Mississippi, South Carolina and Texas have said their states may not want to meet the conditions that accompany the money or expand programs that will have to be paid for by the state once the stimulus money runs out.

“You may get yourself out of a temporary budget hole, but create another budget hole in the next 24 months,” said Gov. Mark Sanford of South Carolina, who like Mr. Jindal and Gov. Rick Perry of Texas is considered a potential candidate for the Republican presidential nomination in 2012.

Although Mr. Sanford has said he will not stand in the way of his state’s accepting the $463 million in transportation money in the bill, his public opposition to the stimulus measure angered Representative James E. Clyburn, a powerful South Carolina Democrat who helped write it. Mr. Clyburn included a provision saying that if a governor did not agree in 45 days to accept the state’s allocation in the bill, a legislature could request the money.

Mr. Jindal said he would reject $98.4 million in federal incentives to expand unemployment coverage, or 2.5 percent of the $3.8 billion that Louisiana stands to receive in all, on the grounds that it would force a change to state law to cover more unemployed people. Such a change would result in increased taxes when the federal money runs out, he said.

“I strongly suggest that other states also look closely at this provision in the bill so they can also avoid ultimately passing on a significant tax to businesses,” he said in a statement.

Gov. Haley Barbour of Mississippi has also focused on the unemployment provisions, saying that of $54 million offered to his state under the bill, only $4 million would be available unless Mississippi changed its law to expand eligibility to part-time workers. But Mr. Barbour has not yet formally rejected the money.

Maurice Emsellem, policy co-director at the National Employment Law Project in Washington, a group that advocates for low-wage workers, differed with Mr. Barbour’s interpretation. Mr. Emsellem said Mississippi, where average unemployment benefits are the lowest in the nation and only 25 percent of unemployed workers qualify for help, would receive $42 million for increased payments to recipients and $4 million for administrative costs without changing its policy.

Under the incentive program that Mr. Jindal turned down for Louisiana, Mississippi would get up to $56 million more for expanding coverage by selecting from a menu of options that includes giving benefits to some part-time workers. The $56 million would pay for the expanded benefits for five years, Mr. Emsellem said.

Some governors objected even to the no-strings-attached $25 a week increase in unemployment benefits, saying it would raise expectations that would be difficult to manage when the federal dollars dry up.

In Idaho, Gov. C. L. Otter has appointed an executive panel of five former state budget officers and three former governors to review requests for stimulus money from state agencies and the private sector. David Hensley, a lawyer for Mr. Otter, complained that the law required the state to spend 3 percent of the transportation money on “transportation enhancement.”

“I never imagined that Congress would tell the state of Idaho that they have to spend $5.5 million on bike paths or pedestrian lanes,” Mr. Hensley said.

a particle is a thing in itself. a wave is a disturbance in something else. waves themselves are probably not disturbed.

For the life of me in my "I've been awake for a few minutes and still feel doped up from yesterday" state, I can't remember who it is but I'm really glad that senator (Dem though he may be) came forward and said that these governors cannot pick and choose what they want, all while chastising the package to the public. You either take all the money, or none of it.

Ps. If this works, Bobby Jindol's political career may be over. He's either the hero or the sacrifice. I'm surprised he set himself up like this in the party - he seems like a really smart guy.