Vermont... Hmm, what are the odds they'll fingerprint the handle and arrest the owner for creating a disturbance and creating a simulated terrorist device? Or will they just sue him/her for the cost of sending out the response crew.

Russian cops are also expendable. Spetznaz, on the other hand, would have done a backflip, thrown an axe at it, and landed clean with the explosion in the background, before putting on shades and striding away.

BronyMedic:Imagine that. A day and age when any idiot can put an IED in any inconspicuous object left in a suspicious location.

But, hey. Those damned, dirty pigs and their fearmongering, am I right?

You are wrong. And also right.

It's not the damned dirty apes, er pigs, it's the whole attitude of the country at large. And it's gotten worse.

Not too long after 9/11, I was working at an office security job, and some fool came in one day, swinging a gym bag around by the strap. "I found this under someone's car in the parking lot, do you think it might be suspicious?" Well, not any more, my supervisor and I said, diving under the desk. We took the bag, and told the employee, next time, come get us FIRST and don't go grabbing it and swinging it around, okay? Not that either of us were IED experts; but we were reasonably intelligent people, and would have liked the chance to assess the bag first. You know, like by calling the probable owner and asking him/her if they had dropped a gym bag out by their car?

The problem is not that people are being overcautious, which is good; but that they're not assessing the situation, which is bad. Now here, this was a Federal building; the likelihood of a bomb in the parking lot is quite high. Probably they did the right thing by shutting. down. everything. and taking their time. However, when you see the same thing done in a shopping center--or, in our case, an out-of-the-way office building in a nondescript town--its highly UNLIKELY that any terrorist would be setting random bombs.

People here are brushing aside the fact that under the circumstances, the chances of a bomb were pretty good. But that same reaction, if applied to a mall, would be overdoing it. An attitude of "better safe than sorry" only goes so far.

So, who is to blame? The police responding to a "suspicious package" call, the person calling in the "suspicious package", or no one? If you were a first responder and the call came in for a suspicious package, how would you react?

Unfortunately that story was proven to be a bunch of hogwash. Most likely written by some herpa derper who thinks a) the govt spent billions developing space pens and b) using a pencil in a zero-gravity environment is a good idea.

Sorry for gettin all serious but its another one of those bullshiat stories that sticks in my craw.

StoPPeRmobile:Some of us remember Ireland's problems, among other things.

Day and age, ha!

Building a bomb is not that hard. Gimmie 20 minutes, and a trip to the hardware store, and I can have an ANFO device that could flatten a building without raising an eyebrow. (McVeigh did it on a larger scale.) 20 more minutes, and a trip to walmart, a visit to the modeling section and the hunting section, and I've been able to rig a pipe bomb filled with nails to go off with a cell phone trigger.

Any idiot can find the plans to these on the internet. People would do well to remember the Irish troubles.

/The really farking scary this is now they use secondary devices intended to target responding rescuers.

BronyMedic:StoPPeRmobile: Some of us remember Ireland's problems, among other things.

Day and age, ha!

Building a bomb is not that hard. Gimmie 20 minutes, and a trip to the hardware store, and I can have an ANFO device that could flatten a building without raising an eyebrow. (McVeigh did it on a larger scale.) 20 more minutes, and a trip to walmart, a visit to the modeling section and the hunting section, and I've been able to rig a pipe bomb filled with nails to go off with a cell phone trigger.

Any idiot can find the plans to these on the internet. People would do well to remember the Irish troubles.

/The really farking scary this is now they use secondary devices intended to target responding rescuers.

StoPPeRmobile:Medics have ALWAYS been targets. Get that through your skull.

In wartime, yes. In the civilian world, not so much. It's a rather new phenomenon.

9/11, and post-9/11 terrorism increasingly began to target emergency responders. The drug cartels have begun employing this tactic in Mexico, now, too. See, everyone learns something from the guys in the Middle East.

BronyMedic:StoPPeRmobile: Medics have ALWAYS been targets. Get that through your skull.

In wartime, yes. In the civilian world, not so much. It's a rather new phenomenon.

9/11, and post-9/11 terrorism increasingly began to target emergency responders. The drug cartels have begun employing this tactic in Mexico, now, too. See, everyone learns something from the guys in the Middle East.

We're not at war with any nation. We're at war with ideology and religious fundamentalism which takes advantage of an overwhelmingly uneducated and desolate group of people anxious to find blame for their problems.

You can't fight that kind of war with bullets and bombs. Unfortunately, people are still of the old mindset that you can.

BronyMedic:StoPPeRmobile: We ARE at war. You and many other just don't admit it.

We're not at war with any nation. We're at war with ideology and religious fundamentalism which takes advantage of an overwhelmingly uneducated and desolate group of people anxious to find blame for their problems.

You can't fight that kind of war with bullets and bombs. Unfortunately, people are still of the old mindset that you can.

BronyMedic:StoPPeRmobile: We ARE at war. You and many other just don't admit it.

We're not at war with any nation. We're at war with ideology and religious fundamentalism which takes advantage of an overwhelmingly uneducated and desolate group of people anxious to find blame for their problems.

You can't fight that kind of war with bullets and bombs. Unfortunately, people are still of the old mindset that you can.

So, who is to blame? The police responding to a "suspicious package" call, the person calling in the "suspicious package", or no one? If you were a first responder and the call came in for a suspicious package, how would you react?

I'm sure it's fine just go ahead and open that cooler....

My first experience dealing with such a thing was in '86 or '87 while I was stationed in Germany. This was back when Gaddafi was the big terrorist backing guy. Someone reported a strange unknown item in the parking lot right outside the company offices. Our CO called it in, the area was evacuated, and the bomb folks came in. They set up a perimeter, threw up a barricade (sandbags and whatever) between them and the device, and proceeded to deal with it. They had someone shoot the device from behind the barricade. Hey it was the '80s.

Turns out it was a fire extinguisher much like this one -

with the nozzle up at about 150°.

It did make for a slightly amusing event when the Battalion Commander presented it to the CO at a later company formation. But I don't recall anyone ever saying that someone should have just walked up and checked it out. There are times when there's no such thing as "too cautious".

Linkster:BronyMedic: StoPPeRmobile: We ARE at war. You and many other just don't admit it.

We're not at war with any nation. We're at war with ideology and religious fundamentalism which takes advantage of an overwhelmingly uneducated and desolate group of people anxious to find blame for their problems.

The beer was both there and not there in a superposition until the police mucked it up by making an observation causing the collapse to an empty state.Therefore, police are the reason we don't have any beer.

The beer was both there and not there in a superposition until the police mucked it up by making an observation causing the collapse to an empty state.Therefore, police are the reason we don't have any beer.

StoPPeRmobile:BronyMedic: StoPPeRmobile: Some of us remember Ireland's problems, among other things.

Day and age, ha!

Building a bomb is not that hard. Gimmie 20 minutes, and a trip to the hardware store, and I can have an ANFO device that could flatten a building without raising an eyebrow. (McVeigh did it on a larger scale.) 20 more minutes, and a trip to walmart, a visit to the modeling section and the hunting section, and I've been able to rig a pipe bomb filled with nails to go off with a cell phone trigger.

Any idiot can find the plans to these on the internet. People would do well to remember the Irish troubles.

/The really farking scary this is now they use secondary devices intended to target responding rescuers.

awshat:StoPPeRmobile: BronyMedic: StoPPeRmobile: Some of us remember Ireland's problems, among other things.

Day and age, ha!

Building a bomb is not that hard. Gimmie 20 minutes, and a trip to the hardware store, and I can have an ANFO device that could flatten a building without raising an eyebrow. (McVeigh did it on a larger scale.) 20 more minutes, and a trip to walmart, a visit to the modeling section and the hunting section, and I've been able to rig a pipe bomb filled with nails to go off with a cell phone trigger.

Any idiot can find the plans to these on the internet. People would do well to remember the Irish troubles.

/The really farking scary this is now they use secondary devices intended to target responding rescuers.

Gyrfalconthis was a Federal building; the likelihood of a bomb in the parking lot is quite high.[..]However, when you see the same thing done in a shopping center--or, in our case, an out-of-the-way office building in a nondescript town--its highly UNLIKELY that any terrorist would be setting random bombs.

I would say the likelihoods are reversed; not so much about the random office building, but I would expect a shopping mall to be a much more attractive target than some random government building.If you want to spread terror, you pick targets where you hit lots of normal people going about their daily business, so that they can't calm themselves with arguments like, for example, "oh, I'm not really at risk because I don't work for the government".

BronyMedic:StoPPeRmobile: Medics have ALWAYS been targets. Get that through your skull.

In wartime, yes. In the civilian world, not so much. It's a rather new phenomenon.

9/11, and post-9/11 terrorism increasingly began to target emergency responders. The drug cartels have begun employing this tactic in Mexico, now, too. See, everyone learns something from the guys in the Middle East.

Actually, Eric "The Army of God" Rudolph used that tactic in the 1990's. Fortunately, his secondary device was not powerful enough to turn the dumpster he hid it in into shrapnel, and most of the force directed upward.

/Still remember a woman's hair flying with the shock wave of that one on the video.

BronyMedic:StoPPeRmobile: Medics have ALWAYS been targets. Get that through your skull.

In wartime, yes. In the civilian world, not so much. It's a rather new phenomenon.

9/11, and post-9/11 terrorism increasingly began to target emergency responders. The drug cartels have begun employing this tactic in Mexico, now, too. See, everyone learns something from the guys in the Middle East.

Didn't one of the abortion clinic bombers in the 90's do this too? Bombed the clinic and then had a secondary device in a dumpster in the parking lot.

this was a Federal building; the likelihood of a bomb in the parking lot is quite high.

That's fearmongering right there. Think of all the Federal buildings all over the USA that have NOT been blown up EVER. But let one fool park an explosive truck in Oklahoma and suddenly the press, at government urging, whips up a big campaign to protect the public by taking away its rights and freedoms.

It's a scary world out there so Big Brother has set up a Ministry of Security. If Tim McVeigh had not existed the FBI would have had to invent him.

If I see a "suspecious package" I'll go take it in the middle of a vacant lot or something and open it. I did that once and found a rancid baloney sandwich, which undoubtedly was a terrorist-made biological weapon amirite?

Callous:BronyMedic: StoPPeRmobile: Medics have ALWAYS been targets. Get that through your skull.

In wartime, yes. In the civilian world, not so much. It's a rather new phenomenon.

9/11, and post-9/11 terrorism increasingly began to target emergency responders. The drug cartels have begun employing this tactic in Mexico, now, too. See, everyone learns something from the guys in the Middle East.

Didn't one of the abortion clinic bombers in the 90's do this too? Bombed the clinic and then had a secondary device in a dumpster in the parking lot.

TommyDeuce:Callous: BronyMedic: StoPPeRmobile: Medics have ALWAYS been targets. Get that through your skull.

In wartime, yes. In the civilian world, not so much. It's a rather new phenomenon.

9/11, and post-9/11 terrorism increasingly began to target emergency responders. The drug cartels have begun employing this tactic in Mexico, now, too. See, everyone learns something from the guys in the Middle East.

Didn't one of the abortion clinic bombers in the 90's do this too? Bombed the clinic and then had a secondary device in a dumpster in the parking lot.

(Pssssttt, look up one post)

Yea, you posted while I was reading through the thread and I posted before refreshing.