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Re: Shanty Boats

I would set mine up pretty much just like a travel trailer. For my kind of usage, Im not going to park it in one place for weeks or months on end. I imagine being at anchor for a few days, maybe a week. After that, I think its probably time to visit a marina, replenish supplies, empty/fill tanks, and get a proper shower. With a shanty boat hull though, one could easily fit a large enough tankage to accommodate that length of time.

Re: Shanty Boats

One of WoodenBoat's good Facebook friends, Nate Carey, called attention to a YouTube video on a simple river raft with spartan/camping accommodations. It's worth a look just for the utter simplicity of the idea and effort. It's not a Shanty boat, but take a look at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpTKA...&feature=share

Re: Shanty Boats

I'll have to confess that I wasn't very interested in the Shanty Boat story. But after reading all these ideas I'm going back to take another look. Might be fun to have a little house/boat moored somewhere out of the way.

I wonder what the rules are for mooring six months at a time in salt water. Probably just stay out of busy passages and keep an anchor light on after sunset. Hmmm.

Re: Shanty Boats

Re: Shanty Boats

I have a question...
WB magazinw #224 features shanty boats...a great issue. The feature Shantyboat Renaissance by Harry Bryan apparently had a final total cost of $75,000.
I have yet to sit down and work on an analysis....but , at first glance, I don't see such a basic watercraft costing that much.
Am I missing something?

Re: Shanty Boats

I have a question...
WB magazinw #224 features shanty boats...a great issue. The feature Shantyboat Renaissance by Harry Bryan apparently had a final total cost of $75,000.
I have yet to sit down and work on an analysis....but , at first glance, I don't see such a basic watercraft costing that much.
Am I missing something?

There is another thread that discusses that, and many members felt that way. I'm a dissenter in that I think its a fair price to charge for a completed boat, complete from ships stove to flower boxes. The cost of materials doesn't take the builders time in to account, the level of craftsmanship, or his profit. I'd bet you could buy the materials for half that 35K but you'd have a pile of wood and gallons of paint and glue--you wouldnt have a boat.

Kevin

There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

Re: Shanty Boats

Breakaway makes a valid point. Amateur builds come in two general sorts: Those that are somewhere between simple and butt-ugly; and Those that show the glory and beauty of real craftsmanship, complete with grace notes.

If the designers is a genius in his or her use of the materials, something like the Glouster Gull comes along, a boat almost impossible to make ugly because Bolger did not leave the curves to the builder's eye, but rather made sure the plywood dictated them. A whole world of nice-enough boats comes from this sort of good design.

Every now and then there's a plain and simple design that's been done by a real craftsman. We had pix of such here not long ago but I can't remember enough to do the search. Simple, often very plainly done, boat but little touches like the cut-outs for bulkhead vents and the detailing of the paint scheam were just right - no geegaw or pointless filigree but a right accenting of a terrific design.

But then there are moments when the designer/builder does the art right. The cover shanty boat could have looked as remorselessly practical as Atkins' Retreat. But it doesn't. The curves, like the eves' line, are just so. The very gentle hull flare and sweep are so deft. And those are things that another can now follow if the plans are available, but even from plans you can get it wrong. I can't be the only one here who's seen a Rozinante where the builder just missed the shere elevation or - this one's actually common - failed to get that stern knuckle right.

So yeah, the skill that went into that shanty boat is easily more valuable than the material. An amateur who's good can make that boat for $20,000 materials or even less, but that person does not count time. And that's the real meaning of being true to the root for amateur - a lover.

Re: Shanty Boats

Wow! The above photo is like something out of an old movie. Who built it and where do we go to see it?

The first photo is of the Sprague family (my neighbors) logging camp on Hood Canal around 1910. We bought some timberland from the two brothers sitting on the raft in 1975.

The second photo is of a flatboat built a couple years ago to go down the Mississippi drainage, taken out of a newspaper article. I was gonna do an article on it but I never could get in touch with the builder after he returned from his trip. But it's Western Red Cedar, and its construction is pretty basic.

Re: Shanty Boats

Have there been any attempts to think of creative ways to get a shanty boat in a bigger size, yet still trailer? Assembly would be a challenge to consider, but the trailer industry was able to develop double wides in a prefab setup. The long corridor is a challenge aestheticallly, and most boats tend to get greater beam as they get longer. I don't want or need the crazy tophamper of some of the houseboats, but there is something appealing about a shanty wider than 8'6".

Re: Shanty Boats

Originally Posted by Bobcat

I really like this idea. I do see that waterfront property owners will raise hell if a shanty boat anchors for an extended period in front of their expensive beach.

Way back I had a 22' Cedar boat I used as a "shanty" with a 16' boat for a tender.
I got questioned several times by property owners when I Anchored too close to their Property, or spent a few nights out front of their house. Good anchorages are few and far between in the San Juan's.

Especially when all I had for a Head was a Bucket!

But I went all through the San Juan's and even spent a few nights in Lake Washington up near the north end. I just fished.
But up in the San Juan's the peace n' quiet is well worth the clamor of building a nice Comfortable Barge looking thing.

The only 'uncomfortable' experience in the San Juan's was anchoring, and then having to move after the weather changed in the middle of the night.
There aren't a whole lot of 'Safe n' Weather free' anchorages in the San Juan's.
Ferry Wakes are another upsetting motion.
Those Ferry wakes can actually cause your Barge to drag the anchor.

The Shanty like you see in the South East states, in the Swamps, and slow rivers may work up in the PacNW but I'd be cautiously aware of the Bad water you can encounter in the San Juan's.
Look into it a bit harder, make sure you can afford it, and follow your dream!

Re: Shanty Boats

I've seen sketches of shantyboats/ houseboats that had fold-out walkways, three or four feet deep, around the entire boat. Some of them had awnings over those. Perhaps especially useful for a craft where those could be "walk out" from the interior.

Await dreams, loves, life; | There is always tomorrow. | Until there is not.

Re: Shanty Boats

One could go greener... I like the idea of a shanty boat based on a Hobie cat enabled with a human powered screw propulsion. A small sailing rig could be adapted for longer boat movements. Cost of donor boat and trailer for under 500 dollars from craigs list. http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/boa/2815850876.html

Re: Shanty Boats

Well, at least here in Washington the Division of Natural Resources claims ownership of the land under the water. They will allow a waterfront owner to moor his boat in front of his property, but other moorages are not allowed on a long term basis. Overnight or weekends, etc, no problem. There's a big story in the local paper about a fishing boat moored in an out of the way cove and they've given the owner 30 days to move it. So shanty boats don't seem like a good idea here. Darn!!

Re: Shanty Boats

Originally Posted by fishrswim

Well, at least here in Washington the Division of Natural Resources claims ownership of the land under the water.

Only salt water. Not lakes or ponds. It's all relative. Overall there is a low level of enforcement, with all manner of derelict live-aboards still existing even in high-tone places like Poulsbo and Braindead. Buy waterfront land in more-remote DeWatto, Tahuya, Brinnon, Allyn, Shelton and places thereabout, and you won't have a problem unless someone complains. So be nice to your neighbors, and you can pretty much do what you want in rural areas.

Re: Shanty Boats

Well, at least here in Washington the Division of Natural Resources claims ownership of the land under the water.

These issues can crop up anywhere. I live in an area where many waterfront homeowners object to people anchored in view as well. But as Bob says its more of an issue on paper than in reality. Most times, anyway. For one thing, are you going to pick an anchorage where you can pass the salt to the shorefront homeowner in the first place? In the second place, if the DNR "owns" the land under the water, then so do you , so long as you're a taxpayer.

Just saying

Kevin

There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

Re: Shanty Boats

Originally Posted by Breakaway

In the second place, if the DNR "owns" the land under the water, then so do you , so long as you're a taxpayer.

Just saying

Kevin

Just a pipe dream for me anyway. But although the "public" may own the land under the water, DNR has been given the responsibliity of regulating its use. For example I now have to purchase and display a "Discover Pass" ($50 per annum) to use any state park or DNR lands.

A much more important (for me) restriction of the use of public lands here in Washington is the habit of waterfront property owners claiming ownership of tidelands and preventing public use of public beaches. In most cases, property rights end at the high water line. However, local law enforcement will not research actual ownership and will assist the property owner in preventing public use. Go Figure. One part time resident actually fired an incendiary device at a fisherman recently, narrowly missing him and law enforcement did nothing.

Re: Shanty Boats

Go Figure. One part time resident actually fired an incendiary device at a fisherman recently, narrowly missing him and law enforcement did nothing.

Sheesh. We have a similar, though reversed situation around here. A long time "local" beach accessible by permitted 4 WD vehicles has been the object of wrath for a bunch of oceanfront homeowners who didnt count on having winnebagos, travel trailers and pickups with pop-up tents on "their" beach. The matter is in the courts, but for now, the beach is open and the police, if anything, favor the campers.

kevin

There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

Re: Shanty Boats

They will eventually ban the squatters in the name of protecting a bird or turtle or some such thing.

Originally Posted by Breakaway

Sheesh. We have a similar, though reversed situation around here. A long time "local" beach accessible by permitted 4 WD vehicles has been the object of wrath for a bunch of oceanfront homeowners who didnt count on having winnebagos, travel trailers and pickups with pop-up tents on "their" beach. The matter is in the courts, but for now, the beach is open and the police, if anything, favor the campers.

Re: Shanty Boats

I don't know what sort of resistance one would have here with regard to mooring in front of someones waterfront property, but I do know that the chances of getting a traditional shanty boat into one of the local marinas would be next to zero. Only one local marina that I know of allows live aboard tenants, they use to have a few shanty boats as well but they are now gone. In their place is a developer who will gladly sell you a $600,000+ float home with a very expensive water lease attached.

Re: Shanty Boats

I own a lake front property, I also owned a river front property.

On the river, my deck off an "A" frame was 20' from the water. People would canoe and tube by and sometimes if the ladies were properly attired (skimmy bating suits) we might offer the shore and even join the party. (I should never had sold that place!). But, when someone came trough blasting radios, throwing beer cans and just being a pain, I'd run them off in a heart beat. In Missouri property owners own to the deepest point of the water which defines the center of the river. Very hard to survey that BTW (LOL), and DNR governs the rules on the water.

At the lake I'm on one of the widest parts of the lake and watching the boaters is just part of being there. My place sets up high enough that from the water it's hard to see the house due to the cedars. The rule is that a boat can't be moored for more than 24 hours. I would anchor my boat at on edge of my property and the daily chore was moving it to the other side, so it was not moored in the same spot for more than 24 hours.

On occassions, there will be some party types who come along and blast the stereo. I will sometimes simply yell out the back door saying, "Honey, let the dogs out", since I'm less than 50' away it usually gets their attention and they decide to move along as they don't have the privacy they might be seeking. When someone does that at midnight and wakes me up, I jsut open the sliding door off the bedroom and fire my 12 guage into the woods next to me, they are usually gone within the minute. This is a Corps of Engineers lake and I'm in the county.

The moral of my stories is don't tick off your neighbors, boaters certainly have the right to be there, but so do the property owners and they have the right of quiet enjoyment. If you would not park your car on the street in front of someone's house and raise kane, then don't do so in your boat, IMO. But I'm sure those here are not those types anyway, just say'n.

Back on topic, I have wondered about the same thing as the OP, and thought about the Sea Doo concept of hooking the power craft in the stern of the mothership, as the do with a jet ski in the Shuttle Craft. I think it would be great at slower cruising speeds instead of pushing as a tug or pulling it.

Re: Shanty Boats

Marin Co., CA, which is just across the Golden Gate from San Francisco, was home to a rather extensive collection of "shanty boats" in the late 1800's and early 1900's. They were locally known as "arks." Folks from the City kept them as summer places and many were quite elaborate, so much so that some were hauled up on shore to become regular cabins. There are several preserved in Tiburon and Sausalito.

The most famous is the "China Cabin," which was the first class social saloon salvaged from the Pacific Mail Steamship Lines sidewheel steamer "China" in 1886. They just plopped it down on pilings at the shoreline. It has been totally restored and is a registered national maritime treasure. It now can be rented as a public hall for weddings and such.

Here's one of a row of arks on the Sausalito waterfront.

And one at the SF Maritime Museum Hyde Street Pier.

There's a guy who's making an HO layout of the Tiburon rail yards, complete with model arks.

Re: Shanty Boats

Man, those are nice, I like the inlayed floor too.

BTW, I didn't mean to suggest a jet ski, but like the see doo shuttle boat that incorporates a jet ski. I was thinking more in line with a smaller power boat that would fit in the aft section, maybe have remote steering. Unhook it and take off.

Actually those little 15 ft jet boats have excellent maneuverability at low speed. You just have learn the knack of shuttling the bucket tween file ward and reverse. Can make them move sideways actually, or almost; you can get the 15 ft side to into an 18 ft berth once you get it.
Kevin

There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

Re: Shanty Boats

Okay, tuning in a little late on this thread; glad I found it! The concept of a shanty boat first intrigued me the first time I went through the "Pirates of the Caribbean" attraction at Disneyland--the shantyboats sitting in the placid backwaters of the swamp before the ride got "exciting" really stirred my imagination. I would confess, the Aqua-Casa 20' has piqued my interest for a long time; regrettably, with 4 kids still "on crew" at my casa, it won't happen in the near future. I devoured WB#224 and fell in lust with Harry Bryan's beautiful "shanty"; but, I can't help but think that the word "shanty" evokes the idea of something just a few shades less elegant (and a little less dear; $75K?). IMHO, Harry's shanty is more "yachty" than "shanty"; it just needs to move under its own or Aeolus' power to be accepted for membership "down at the club." There are some very interesting designs out there, some a bit more primitive, some, not so much, but I am glad to see that the concept is gaining a following. I did a paddle-wheel steamboat trip up the Miss from New Orleans about 2 weeks before Katrina; the hopeless nostalgic, I was hoping to see some shanties on the river. Alas, it's a big muddy water commercial freeway; the pleasure boats I saw the entire trip I could count on one hand, and not use all my fingers. My "bucket list" is not so long; perhaps I will get the chance to do St. Paul to the Big Easy on my Aqua Casa or the like before the dream fades...

"I will sail my vessel, 'til the river runs dry; like a bird upon the wing, the waters are my sky..." ~Garth Brooks~~

Re: Shanty Boats

Hmm... a seadoo is an interesting idea, but I wonder how much pulling power they have at the relatively slow speeds afforded by the barge? Also, no steerage without forward movement.

I wonder if a person could fit a normal propellor to a sea-doo.... hmm....

Probably not much. The Alaska net skiffs use water jets to keep from getting the nets fouled in the props, and the early ones used a unit designed for speed instead of power. They found that didn't work very well. A yawl boat with a big prop would be a better idea.

Re: Shanty Boats

Originally Posted by johnw

Probably not much. The Alaska net skiffs use water jets to keep from getting the nets fouled in the props, and the early ones used a unit designed for speed instead of power. They found that didn't work very well. A yawl boat with a big prop would be a better idea.

Re: Shanty Boats

Some thoughts on the trailer. And the tug.

A buddy has a 25 foot aluminum herring punt. Its essentially a barge shape, dead flat bottom. He bought an old tandem boat trailer, and we gutted all the rollers, welded uprights every 30" or so up from the main frames on each side. To that a chunk of metal plate was welded with lips laid out to recieve and hold a 2x6 plank. These uprights were long enough to be above the tires. Than we just bolted 2x6 timbers to the plates on each side. We made sure that the spacing of the planks pick up the punt at the chine, the strongest area, and have upright guide posts on the trailer so the boat comes on to the trailer right where we want it. It works very well, the punt lives on the trailer all winter with no issues. No rollers are needed, as a flat bottom punt (or shanty boat) doesn't draw much water, get the timber suports wet by a couple inches and the boat slides on with a little help from a hand winch. This is the way I'd go. Used boat trailers are way cheaper than flat deck trailers in my experience. And boat trailers should be more coorosion resistant (galvanized).

A tug boat sounds like a hoot, and you know probably the way to go. Trying to propell a Shanty through a gale in the straights by its own boat power by means of a little motor does not sound fun. A cool little mini tug, or myriad other outboard boats would do. Sternpost always ahead of the prop in a tug boat, and then with the steerage of an outboard you have very positive control of the load. Another thing to consider in the design of the Shanty and the tug, is a good tie off points on each hip as the old tug boat guys would say. That is, about 3/4 the length back on the Shanty. Tie the tug off on either side there as you enter a harbour or other real tight spot is the preferred method to move the thing around slowly and accurately when you need to.

Re: Shanty Boats

I want one of these 20 footers from Tad Roberts:

If you build a boat that looks like it might be a houseboat, someone will object. But if you build a houseboat (which a single person might liveaboard full time) that looks like a boat, you may fall below the radar. Thus my little Shanties have some shape in their sides and a stem so they look like boats. Some space is lost for a gain in aesthetic appeal which may get you a coveted inside berth at the marina.

Re: Shanty Boats

Jim, but that's not a shanty, nice boat that could be shantely built, but not a shanty.
I like the suggestion Jim, I'd like to have one, but that is not an easy build. A shanty can be built in weeks, as opposed to other liveaboards that can easily take years.

Can't see how a tug can be fun......and more "fun" than a jetski? I guess if they type of attention you draw on the water is fun, that would be in the eye of the beholder, but more water fun than having a jetski and a boat? I can't imagine how it could be. I have been pulled before, about 2 miles in my 5000+ cuddy by a jetski without a problem and at a pretty good clip I might add. You can get them with 200+ hp! How much power do ya think you need to move a flat bottomed shanty....maybe 10hp? We do love to hate jetskis, but you can't argue when ridden responsibily and not like rodeo machines, they are versitle water crafts with many uses.

Re: Shanty Boats

Originally Posted by Wavewacker

Jim, but that's not a shanty, nice boat that could be shantely built, but not a shanty.
I like the suggestion Jim, I'd like to have one, but that is not an easy build. A shanty can be built in weeks, as opposed to other liveaboards that can easily take years.

.

It would be an awfully poor excuse for a boat. I think the fact that you are mistaking it for a boat is the intention. According to the designer, Tad Roberts, it is so a Shanty, just dressed up to look like a boat. True, it has curves and a pointy end, if that's the objection. But its still intended to be quick, easy, and cheap to build and requires very low power. Its not much of a boat and I don't think a reputable designer would try to pass it off as one. You may feel that 'boat shaped shanty' is oxymoronic. Fair enough if that's how you feel. Perhaps the full description would be more convincing http://tadroberts.ca/services/small-...barge/shanty20 or perhaps not. If what one is really after is a square floating platform with a cabin on it and an outboard to force it along then I can see how it would not appeal

Re: Shanty Boats

Jim, well blow me down! You got me, OK, there was talk about a tug and then that.....what is it a sharpie?

Without looking it up, I can see building the Bolger Shanty hull with a pointy end and then just adding straight high freeboard shaped to profile almost anything....how about a battleship?

BB, yes, don't know what "exploring" might include, in most rivers. lakes, marshes and waterways in north america I'd opt for shallow draft, the less the better since that means you can get back in there where most boats can't or don't go to "explore".
Having a mothership is a good idea with a smaller craft that gives you more options.....