Hyundai and Toyota have done the math, and they know Americans almost always prefer big, crude and comfortable over slick, trim and stylish. In hopes Impala-ing this fat part of the mid-sized sedan market, Toyota and Hyundai have refreshed their Avalon and Azera sedans for 2011, and the results are… well, frankly, we can’t tell.

Isn’t it more accurate to compare a Genesis to an Avalon? The Azera is smaller.

Frankly, I think the Genesis and the Avalon have lots to offer people who want a full sized sedan, but both of them are so bland and derivative that you’d be better off buying a Chrysler 300 or a Taurus.

From the reviews I read, the Avalon is now as good as (and has a lot more luxury features than) an older LS400… Although the Avalon, like most newer Toyotas, has a ton of ugly silver painted trim inside.

After the current debacle, the Avalon and Azera may wind up having similar resale values.

Big gap between the Ford and Hyundai? What would that be?
They produce roughly the same number of cars. Hyundai didn’t lose $12.7 billion in year 2006 probably due the fact that Hyundai couldn’t afford to lose that much money. If ford generates $2 billion a profit year, that $12.6 billion lost is like losing 6 years. Hyundai has been ascending last 10+ years.

Hyundai’s 3.8L V6 loses nothing to Ford’s 3.5L V6 or any of its child/sibling engines. None turbo charged Taurus is slower than the Azera. In fact, the Taurus does 0-60 in 7.8+ seconds according to Edmunds. It takes longer to break at 131 ft. Taurus typically cost more by few thousands. Taurus doesn’t get better gas mileage either.

Does Burger King copy McDonald’s? These constant rantings about this copied that or that copied this… is really empty and thoughtless polemics. People don’t realize that there is really nothing new things in the world. Everything really has been done before. Toyota didn’t create the first car. … Before, people like him accused Toyota of copying everybody. Now, we have a ranting-reincarnate who now rants about Hyundai copying Toyota. I just hope Hyundai doesn’t copy Toyota’s break or spartan interior design of current Toyota’s passenger cars.

Strangely enough, the Avalon has already has a mid-cycle refresh of the bumpers. This one is more of a refresh w/ the headlights, taillights, and interior getting in on the act. I guess they’ll try to squeeze a couple more years out of this chassis…

The Azera seems to be blending Audi A8 and Lincoln mkT styling cues on it’s new mug, the result is far from stunning. . . . or distinctive.

I couldn’t tell the Avalon was new – just looks like someone drove it down a narrow ally and dinged it up a bit.

I’m agreeing with Mr Karesh on this one, though I’d throw the Taurus in ahead of the Buick (the Buick’s IP still has a robot puppy face look that I can’t get past.) Hell, I’d even throw the Nissan Maxima in there before either of these.

revolver1978, have you ever driven the Buick LaCrosse? Did the dash still have that robot puppy face look? Candidly, my opinion of the dash was “ET” when I looked inside the car from standing outside with the door open. When I drove one, that look went completely away!

The Avalon and Azera are not supposed to appeal to car enthusiasts interested in sportiness and exciting unique styling. As the article title implies, they’re “cruisers” — rolling sofas with amenities. The target demographic cares more about interior styling than exterior; any exterior is fine as long as it’s inoffensive and somewhat sophisticated. In that regard, I find both cars appealing based on looks alone.

The refreshed Avalon’s interior actually looks like it’ll appeal to a broader demographic than the previous one, which looked designed for the elderly with lots of chrome, big numbers on the speedo, and numerous plastic doors to hide buttons and the GPS screen so as not to confuse.

The Genesis is a higher end car than the Avalon based on price — it’s $40K+.

People wanting a hearse would be well advised to consider the Dodge Magnum, PT Cruiser, or Chevy HHR.

A few years back someone (I think it was Autoblog or Car and Driver.com) decided to run a story on April 1st about Toyota snapping up the Oldsmobile name cause GM was too stupid to keep it protected and registered. The story said that Toyota was renaming the Sequoia, Bravada. Sadly many legit news organizations picked it up as gospel.

Neither of these cars are stunners, but both have much more “real” space, especially in the rear, than the Taurus, Lacrosse, 300/Charger or Maxima. Or the Genesis and Lexus GS, for that matter. The current Impala is ridiculously uncomfortable for adults in the rear.

Oddly, the Accord and Camry are more sensible competition. So are the Panthers, but they don’t ride, drive or fit people as well.

On styling alone, the Azera’s the better choice. If I recall, it’s got a better ride and more comfortable seats, too. The Avalon’s a little too brittle and harsh-riding for this market (and you notice it, because otherwise it’s got pretty numb steering and is really quiet) but it’s more contemporarily-styled inside and the rear seat it better.

I’m not digging the “big Corolla” styling. I didn’t like it on the Corolla itself (it looks tacked on) and I don’t like it here.

Dismissing or dissing these cars is like talking smack about minivans. I mean, why pick on them for being what they are? I’m sure the Maxima is sportier and you could get a smaller sports/luxury sedan for less money, but that’s not really the point. If you want to truck four people in comfort (the coupe roof of Buicks and the Nissan obviate this, as does the ass-on-the-floor bench) or five in pinch, they’re good choices. That they weigh three (Azera) to five (Avalon) hundred pounds less than the Taurus is a nice touch, too.

I like both these cars. They do what they’re supposed to do without pretense or compromise.

I’m actually about three or four inches off of seven feet, but that’s sort of beside the point. The Impala, at least in many editions, has a low, short rear-seat cushion and not much in the way of head and neck support

I end up in taxi-cabs and rentals a lot, as do my colleagues, and we started comparing notes on actual comfort and, you know what, the car that we all rated highest was the Dodge-freakin’-Intrepid, followed by the Camry (which makes a rare cab), Dodge Caravan, Ford Taurus, Lincoln Town Car and, heading up the rear, the Crown Vic and Impala/Regal. If you read the likes of CR, you’ll see the same point about low, short rear seats brought up.

I know it’s hard to believe, but it’s true. Most enthusiasts don’t spend a lot of time in the rear seats of these cars, and you can’t really appreciate the finer points of actual thigh support until you’ve experienced the lack thereof after working a day or two without sleep.

The Maxima is actually smaller on the interior than the Altima, so it is the complete opposite of these two…. a big car that is small inside and “sporty” in the performance dept while these two are big cars that are huge inside and comfy in the performance dept.

We have an 05ish Avalon as a pool car at work. I’ve done several 4hr stints in the back of it for business travel. I’m pretty much out like a light as soon as we are on the freeway. Very comfortable back seat. The funny thing is that I could never sleep in the back seat of my parents’ Yukon SLT whilst heading to our vacation destination as a teenager. It had the leg room, but not the seats that just lull you to sleep.

I’ve no experience w/ the Azera, but the Avalon is quite the highway cruiser when it comes to comfort.

GM has been doing low rear seats forever. They started doing it to get the roofline low, and now they just can’t stop themselves. I discussed this with a group of GM designers and engineers a decade ago. This said, I do think GM has put out a few vehicles with seats almost properly high off the floor, but these remain the exception rather than the rule.

Ford and Chrysler both do much better in this area, though the new Taurus is a step back from the Five Hundred / old Taurus.

This said, I do think GM has put out a few vehicles with seats almost properly high off the floor, but these remain the exception rather than the rule.

Yeah, I noticed that. It’s the addiction to the coupe rooflines that started in the fifties and never, ever let up. The only GM cars, excluding trucklets, I’ve been in that don’t suffer from this problem are the Aveo, HHR and Astra.

It always seemed kind of pathetic that the Aveo’s rear seat had better long-term comfort than the Impala’s.

You’re right about the Taurus and 300, but neither are really that good. The 300/Charger suffers for the gun-slit windows and intrusive C-pillars and the new Taurus feels more cramped. The Avalon and Azera (and the old Five Hundred and Intrepid/Concorde) feel like proper large cars from the rear.

Aren’t these supposed to be full-sizers, and not mid-sizers? The Avalon at least is a good bit larger than a Camry. I’ve never been in the back of an Azera, but looking at plenty of them it never struck me as that much larger than a Sonata, and certainly has less real space than a new Taurus, LaCrosse, or Avalon.

I thought the Genesis was supposed to replace the Azera as Hyundai’s big pseudo-luxury vehicle.

In either case, given the choice just between these two, I’d take the Azera, 1 year old used with low miles, when it can be bought for half the new sticker price.

Doesn’t matter. Both are reliable and well made enough to be easy to live with. Neither draw attention with their looks, positively or negatively. To call them banal is unfair, as they are both very good cars, perhaps surpassingly inoffensive is closer.

I had to go to Edmunds to see what they cost. 24k and 28k to start plus features and minus discounts. Meh. I cant see myself choosing between the two. Put a gun to my head, I will close my eyes and point.

I own a Grand Marquis that we use as the family truckster. When I was in L.A., I had a 2007 Avalon for a week.

On paper, the Avalon is better. However, the Grand Marquis is still a more solid, comfortable car. The Avalon felt exactly what it was – a front wheel drive unibody car with torque steer at times. It just didn’t feel the same.

Grand Marquis for me, but all bets are off once Ford stops building them. Nothing else compares.

I thought the Genesis was supposed to replace the Azera as Hyundai’s big pseudo-luxury vehicle.

I guess they had to have something to compete against the Avalon, because it seems to me the Genesis is aiming a bit higher. Like Lexus for example…

I had a look to compare base MSRP on Avalon vs ES 350 and Azera vs Genesis.

The Azera is not available in Canada for 2010, the Genesis is $37,995, in the US, Azera $24,970 vs the Genesis $33,000. That’s a big enough difference in price to have room for two similarly sized cars from the same manufacturer, I guess…

The Avalon is $39,285 and the ES 350 $41,950 in Canada. Who in their right mind would buy an Avalon here?! In the US, Avalon $27,945 and ES 350 $35,175 The spread is as large as the Azera to Genesis.

I don’t see what the Toyota Avalon offers more then the Hyundai Azera for the $3,000 premium.

Tangent: Pricing is often stupid here in Canada. I don’t know how the product planners can get it so wrong so often on Canadian pricing.

I’m not talking that they are simply more expensive here (they are), but stupid situations like the one described above with the Avalon/ES350; but if you want to see the worse of these egregiousnesses, try to buy a Volvo. Yeah their list prices seem in the ballpark of whatever segment the model is in. But the way they combine the options, omit critical luxury items unless you go full-tilt, etc… they price higher than cars far superior.

Over the past 8 or so years, everytime I’m shopping for a new car, I’ll shop Volvo — I like the C30 and the V50 T5. Then you sit down to figure out one you’d drive out the door, and suddenly the V50 is a few thou’ *over* an A4 Avant or the C30 is deep into full-tilt 128i or base 135i territory. No way in hell Volvo is anywhere in the league of Audi or BMW…

And the examples continue: Until this year, Audi’s A3 was FWD, if you want Quattro, move up to the 3.2, pay $50K CDN. Really? 50K? Like, don’t get a 335i 50K? This is Canada, Quattro is not a nice-to-have.

Yay!! you guys are comparing cars that have just been rebranded/introduced to a 6 year old Avalon. The car is bigger than the ES350, handles well and is a “full” size car.
While conscious about the environment Toyota is elimianting such things as chrome and harmful chemicals that make the “new” car smell. Fortunatly for you guys the chrome door handles don’t drive the car so you never have to worry about filing a report to NHTSA.

The only way you would get me to drive an Impala, 300c, TaurusSLO etc.. is if I had a kidney belt,a mouth guard and I was on my way to trade it in for whatever the value of the gas was in the fuel tank.

Buy a low-mileage year-old car for half the new sticker? I wish! What I’ve seen is ’09 Azeras priced around $25K; Avalons closer to $30K. Must be good times for used car dealers. Customers who can’t buy wholesale can only look back nostalgically to the times when cheap low-mileage “program cars” were flooding the lots.

You are right that the suspension is pretty bad. Hyundai addressed the problem for the 2008 – 2009 model years by changing the shocks. I don’t think it made big difference. They made another change for the new 2011 Azera – hopefully they got it right this time around. Aside from the floating on the highway this car is very good. I can attest for that because I have also 2008 Infiniti M35 and the Azera compares pretty well with it. It has more space, better gas mileage and it’s cheaper to maintain, not to mention that it cost me two times less money.

I would agree with the first part of what “psarhjinian” said, “Neither of these cars are stunners, but both have much more “real” space, especially in the rear, than the Taurus, Lacrosse, 300/Charger or Maxima.”

I cross shopped a bunch of “full size” cars including those on his list (except for the 300/Charger…no way would I consider a Chrysler/Cerberus.) The Taurus and it’s Volvo S80 sibling had miserable knee room (with the front seat set for my 6 foot frame.) The Lacrosse had no head room and felt horribly claustrophobic, with the high apron and tiny rear window.

The Azera, Avalon and Genesis had very comfortable back seats. The Azera was definitely the cheapest…and it felt like it. The styling and general interior quality was subpar compared to the Avalon and Genesis. The Avalon was just not very attractive and cost more than the V6 Genesis. The dealers seemed to have them all loaded to the gills and didn’t have much wiggle room on the price.

In the end we went with the much better looking and sportier Genesis.

If one could wait, the landscape will change, as Hyundai is working on an all new Azera for the 2012-2013 time frame. The current model is pretty dated. I expect you will see a pretty large leap in style and performance…like what happened with the 2011 Sonata.

If I needed a car in that class I’d definitely go with a Taurus (I even like the 500 despite the 3.0)
Between the Azera and Avalon…

The Avalon is a nice enough car. I have yet to see one in the dealership with a sticker under 33G.

The Azera, while a big step for Hyundai when it was released simply hasn’t evolved to where it should be as other Hyundai models have done. Though it occupies that little pricing space between the Sonata and the Gensis…there is no rule that you have fill up every little spot on the pricing chart.

Hyundai hasn’t proven that its engines and transmissions are reliable in the long term. They appear to be reliable in the short-term (4 or 5 years), but take a major nose-dive in reliability after that. I’ll take the Avalon–even though it has an infrequent problem of massive oil losses via a leaking high pressure hose.

Refreshed! LOL Color me stupid but I can barely tell the difference. Is the change in the interior or powertrains because the exteriors look 98% the same other than slightly pointier front bumpers on the Blandalon and a rocker molding and Sonota grille on the Azera. I would take neither actually. The Taurus SHO would be my top pick for about what a mid line Avalon runs or a Lucerne Super with it’s awesome sounding V8 or even the base 3900 V6 pushrods and all. A Charger or 300 would be next choice followed by a Genesis with some added exterior accessories to tart up the plain generic styling some. We had an Azera for a rental car last year with the 3.8 V6 and came away liking the engine but not really liking the car much. The Avalon? Not only is it one of the blandest most bloated uglymobiles as far as sedans go but many folks that are good friends of my parents own them and have had numerous transmission problems, radar cruise control failures, suspension issues, steering issues and electrical gremlins. Oh and lets not forget that litterally every one of them have silver paint wearing off all the dash covers on frequently used items! The 268 HP V6 provides very strong performance but has the side affect of making the car treacherous in the snow because all the front tires want to do is spin like mad. The accelerator issues only add more fuel to the already strong fire relegating the lackluster Avalon to the bottom of the barrel.

I will never own a Hyundai no matter what. So of the two, I guess that leaves the Avalon, which I really don’t like either. If I were in the market for a full sized mainstream car, I’d probably consider a Taurus (SHO preferably) a new LaCrosse or a VW CC.

All of these cars are way more expensive than Azera and even Avalon, not to mention that are much smaller inside. Taurus SHO is the stupidest thing Ford came up in the last 10 years. A Taurus for $42,000 – Not a chance. This is luxury car territory. SHO doesn’t have the performance to justify its name and price. LaCrosse is very nice inside, but way too small compared to both Avalon and Azera. Its price is also way above the two. So in other words we can’t compare apples to oranges.

If anything, the Lacrosse is a perfect match-up to the Azera for a comparable price. The Lacrosse is over 4″ longer (196.9 “), a shave taller and a hair wider then the Azera. Combined front and rear legroom are nearly equal for both. The pricing sweet spot is right around 30k. Both are front wheel drive 6 cylinders.

If I were in the market for this class of car, I’d probably cross shop the Lacrosse too. The Taurus and Lacrosse have the benefit of AWD, though I agree their interior packaging says midsize rather than fullsize.

I test drove LaCross two weeks ago. I don’t know what is GM doing with the dimensions of their cars, but believe me it was Much, Much smaller inside than Azera. I can vouch for that, because I have one. LaCross is very, very nice inside. The ride is OK, but comparing it to Azera is pointless. It is much more expensive car. I test drove 3.0 V6 AWD CXL and the MSRP on the window was almost $39,000. On top of that the dealer added $5,000 “market price adjustment”. So it came to $45,000! I don’t know about you but I will NEVER buy a 45K Buick, which was not even fully loaded. The car was way too heavy and the 3L engine was literally struggling to keep up. I haven’t drove the 3.6V6, but I am sure it will make the car more drivable. Somebody mentioned that LaCrosse’s sweet spot is around $28,000 – good luck finding one. For that kind of money you’ll get basic car with vastly underpowered engine.You will be much better off buying Camry, Accord or Altima.Taurus is also much smaller than both Azera and Avalon inside and cost more loaded. I don’t know about you, but for that kind of money ($35,000 – $39,000) I would definitely go with Genesis if I need a big car. In case that you hate Hyundai for some weird reason that doesn’t make sense you could get one year old Cadillac CTS or Infinity M35 – both excellent cars.

We have an 05 Avalon that has been rock solid since purchase. We did have the recall for the oil line done but have not had steering column or transmission problems as others have noted. Had front and rear brakes done at 40,000 miles to avoid replacing rotors. (Dealer is about 50 miles away) My wife loves the car as it is floaty, roomy and reliable. The interior is a sea of faux aluminum trim which I hate. Back seat room is like a limo. Heated and cooled front seats are awesome. Keeps your nuggets from sticking in the summer. We have the limited and I can honestly say that this car is 95% of a lexus at about 10K cheaper. We have not experienced the sticking pedal, but the thought of it makes me nervous. We like the car, but have lost faith in Toyota to do the right thing, and lets face it, you can have the best car in the world, if you don’t trust the manufacturer, you have nothing. I can say that I will never buy another Toyota due to the games corporate has played with the latest recall. My time is too valuable to spend driving back and forth to the dealer to correct Toyotas oversights. A shame really, as I would have bought another one.

A friend of ours has an Avalon (03 I believe) and that is one comfortable ride in back. Very roomy as well. One that you can truly seat three people in without drama. I’ve had an 04 Audi A8, so I know what back seat comfort is. The Avalon gives up nothing in that area to the large luxury sedans. Not sure about the looks of the refresh though – a bit ungainly. I think the 3rd gen (05 to present) looks the best. No experience with the Azera, so I’d have to go with a known quantity.

Hyundai today is NOT what it used to be, and the dealer service eclipses the cr@p I’ve put up with from domestic dealers (or why I will NEVER, EVER buy another Ford). I drive cars into the ground, so I expect the vendor to ante up with a solid warranty. I also expect them to stand behind the product and not force me to join a class action suit (as I did for GMs intake manifold fiasco) to get compensation from them. Right now, Hyundai seems to be on the right track.

Well, now we know where Hyundai is gonna put it’s 6-cylinders instead of the Sonata. FWD cars with reasonably powerful 6-cylinder engines still sell impressive numbers in the North American market, whether folks want them to or not.