To think, this was probably the most excited I'd been heading into a Chiefs season in a while. I loved the draft. I loved the Breaston, McClain and Gaither signings. Hated the Muir promotion, but loved the Zorn hire.

Or you know, maybe we could all wait for a doctor to tell us or even Berry his ****ing self.

Billay

09-12-2011, 02:14 PM

after a game like that, pioli is letting Clark know he had nothing to do with it....

My guess would be it started with the whole Weis debacle.

4th and Long

09-12-2011, 02:15 PM

So we're going to go with gross incompetence instead of recklessness?

Seriously - a strained ACL is pretty easy to figure out. Is there instability in the joint? Even if Berry lies - you can manipulate a knee to figure that out.

It was a failure by the staff. Did it make a difference? Who the hell knows - maybe it was already blown. But it was still pretty ridiculous.
The fact is, no matter who's fault it was, he went back out, be it of his own accord or perhaps the training staff blew it. The end result is the same. He's done for (at least) the year. For all we know, the trainging staff had their heads buried in the sand to keep from watching any more of The Christians vs. The Lions on the field.

OnTheWarpath58

09-12-2011, 02:15 PM

So we're going to go with gross incompetence instead of recklessness?

Seriously - a strained ACL is pretty easy to figure out. Is there instability in the joint? Even if Berry lies - you can manipulate a knee to figure that out.

It was a failure by the staff. Did it make a difference? Who the hell knows - maybe it was already blown. But it was still pretty ridiculous.

A lot of folks are assuming that it was even strained by the Johnson hit.

Then again, it's apparently much more fun to blame the opposition for his injury than accept that his knee buckled on a non-contact play.

Billay

09-12-2011, 02:17 PM

A lot of folks are assuming that it was even strained by the Johnson hit.

Then again, it's apparently much more fun to blame the opposition for his injury than accept that his knee buckled on a non-contact play.

He clearly was injured by the Johnson hit.

DJ's left nut

09-12-2011, 02:17 PM

To think, this was probably the most excited I'd been heading into a Chiefs season in a while. I loved the draft. I loved the Breaston, McClain and Gaither signings. Hated the Muir promotion, but loved the Zorn hire.

I remember after the zorn hire, then after the draft, being incredibly excited.

Then Babb released his first Bill Muir puff piece and I remembered that Muir was our offensive coordinator.

I was immediately sad again. It was a flood of realization that hammered me after several weeks of optimism. I had simply forgotten that Muir was the OC. Then came the pre-season and our 'training camp'.

By yesterday, I went into the day with the expectations of grilling some kickass garlic/spicy chicken wings (great success!) and watching a mediocre football team (fail: this team would kill to be mediocre).

Yeah, this franchise can crush your soul quickly.

DJ's left nut

09-12-2011, 02:18 PM

The fact is, no matter who's fault it was, he went back out, be it of his own accord or perhaps the training staff blew it. The end result is the same. He's done for (at least) the year. For all we know, the trainging staff had their heads buried in the sand to keep from watching any more of The Christians vs. The Lions on the field.

So what is it, precisely, that you're trying to say again?

Yes, I am aware that Berry blew his knee out and is gone for the year. Water is, in fact, wet.

You seem content with repeating that fact and saying that you have no idea who/why/what contributed to it. Okay - if that's the case - just don't talk.

RockChalk

09-12-2011, 02:19 PM

LMAO

NSDowell: @StevieJohnson13 Cheap shot artist. I hope you suffer a career ending injury next week. Go drink some antifreeze

Which one of you posted this?

OnTheWarpath58

09-12-2011, 02:19 PM

He clearly was injured by the Johnson hit.

And you and a lot of others are assuming the ACL was damaged on that play.

It could have just as easily been a knee bruise/contusion.

Which makes a helluva lot more sense than him blowing out his knee, getting worked on by the training staff and being allowed to go back out and play.

And you and a lot of others are assuming the ACL was damaged on that play.

It could have just as easily been a knee bruise/contusion.

Which makes a helluva lot more sense than him blowing out his knee, getting worked on by the training staff and being allowed to go back out and play.

Which if is the case, the training staff needs to be fired

DJ's left nut

09-12-2011, 02:22 PM

A lot of folks are assuming that it was even strained by the Johnson hit.

Then again, it's apparently much more fun to blame the opposition for his injury than accept that his knee buckled on a non-contact play.

Pretty farfetched to claim the Johnson hit had nothing to do with it. Johnson drilled the same knee that buckled the very next time he put weight on it.

I mean lets face it - if I hit you in the head with a bat and you walk away clutching your dome, that's going to draw eyes my way. Later that night, if you die of brain aneurysm with me nowhere near you, there's a safe bet that me whacking your ass with a club had something to do with it.

C'mon - lets at least use some logic here. There's a 95% chance that Johnson's hit on Berry played a very significant role in Berry's injury.

Billay

09-12-2011, 02:22 PM

And you and a lot of others are assuming the ACL was damaged on that play.

It could have just as easily been a knee bruise/contusion.

Which makes a helluva lot more sense than him blowing out his knee, getting worked on by the training staff and being allowed to go back out and play.

A knee bruise would cause you to blow out your knee on the next play? Without that hit Berry doesn't tear his ACL.

Wow - busting out the first amendment argument to a dude on an internet chatboard.

I'd really suggest you read said Amendment and recognize that it in no way applies to me, but that's really not terribly relevant here.

I was mostly offering a moron some constructive advice. But hey, by all means, continuing to open your mouth and remove all doubt. Otherwise I couldn't only be about 50% certain that you're functionally retarded.

4th and Long

09-12-2011, 02:25 PM

Orlandis Gary played an entire 2nd half on a torn ACL.
There are varying degrees of a torn ACL.

DJ's left nut

09-12-2011, 02:26 PM

There are varying degrees of a torn ACL.

http://13.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ktu6uin5CS1qa3us1o1_400.jpg

4th and Long

09-12-2011, 02:26 PM

Wow - busting out the first amendment argument to a dude on an internet chatboard.

I'd really suggest you read said Amendment and recognize that it in no way applies to me, but that's really not terribly relevant here.

I was mostly offering a moron some constructive advice. But hey, by all means, continuing to open your mouth and remove all doubt. Otherwise I couldn't only be about 50% certain that you're functionally retarded.
You're quite the insult hurling, young man, aren't you?

Billay

09-12-2011, 02:26 PM

http://13.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ktu6uin5CS1qa3us1o1_400.jpg

ROFL is that Leon Panetta?

OnTheWarpath58

09-12-2011, 02:27 PM

A knee bruise would cause you to blow out your knee on the next play? Without that hit Berry doesn't tear his ACL.

:facepalm:

How many guys have blown out an ACL with no prior injury before? Too many to count.

Watch the play again. That could just as easily have happened had he not been cut blocked the play before.

The gif actually starts as Berry is planting the leg in question - it doesn't buckle there, but the next time he plants his left foot.

I'd be interested to see the entire play, and see how he looked as he was running back onto the field and prior to the buckle.

http://uranus.ckt.net/~gochiefs/knee.gif

Billay

09-12-2011, 02:28 PM

:facepalm:

How many guys have blown out an ACL with no prior injury before? Too many to count.

Watch the play again. That could just as easily have happened had he not been cut blocked the play before.

The gif actually starts as Berry is planting the leg in question - it doesn't buckle there, but the next time he plants his left foot.

I'd be interested to see the entire play, and see how he looked as he was running back onto the field and prior to the buckle.

http://uranus.ckt.net/~gochiefs/knee.gif

So you are really going to suggest the Johnson block to the knee going at full speed which flipped Berry over had NOTHING to do with the injury? Really?

DJ's left nut

09-12-2011, 02:29 PM

You're quite the insult hurling, young man, aren't you?

On my more rational days, yes.

On others, I just sit quietly in my office and hurl shit at my monitor. Alas, that isn't really reflected in my post count.

You should probably consider a similar approach, only consider doing it every day.

OnTheWarpath58

09-12-2011, 02:32 PM

So you are really going to suggest the Johnson block to the knee going at full speed which flipped Berry over had NOTHING to do with the injury? Really?

I guess all this clip is missing is the play before where Welker gets hit low.

But if it makes you guys feel better to blame Johnson or our training staff, and ignore all other possibilities, go for it.

KC Hawks

09-12-2011, 02:32 PM

I remember after the zorn hire, then after the draft, being incredibly excited.

Then Babb released his first Bill Muir puff piece and I remembered that Muir was our offensive coordinator.

I was immediately sad again. It was a flood of realization that hammered me after several weeks of optimism. I had simply forgotten that Muir was the OC. Then came the pre-season and our 'training camp'.

By yesterday, I went into the day with the expectations of grilling some kickass garlic/spicy chicken wings (great success!) and watching a mediocre football team (fail: this team would kill to be mediocre).

Yeah, this franchise can crush your soul quickly.

It raises my blood pressure every time I think of that old **** up in the booth calling plays. It was such a stupid hire considering 1) he's 70 years old, therefore isn't a long term solution which is what we needed considering we've had 3 offensive coordinators in 3 years, and 2) he sucks.

I don't know what Haley was thinking.

DJ's left nut

09-12-2011, 02:34 PM

It raises my blood pressure every time I think of that old **** up in the booth calling plays. It was such a stupid hire considering 1) he's 70 years old, therefore isn't a long term solution which is what we needed considering we've had 3 offensive coordinators in 3 years, and 2) he sucks.

I don't know what Haley was thinking.

It doesn't matter if you know what he's thinking.

Afterall, he's the smartest man in the room.

Billay

09-12-2011, 02:34 PM

I guess all this clip is missing is the play before where Welker gets hit low.

But if it makes you guys feel better to blame Johnson or our training staff, and ignore all other possibilities, go for it.

What? Berry was limping when a 6'2 210 guy hit his knee you keep ignoring this fact. Your logic that it had nothing to do with his injury is amusing. Bernard Pollard's hit on Tom Brady had nothing to do with him getting hurt either right? It was the way Brady pivoted?

Chiefnj2

09-12-2011, 02:35 PM

I would be amazed if the Johnson hit didn't partially tear the ACL and it was hanging by a thread before he plants it and it ruptures completely.

DJ's left nut

09-12-2011, 02:39 PM

Shit happens.

But if it makes you guys feel better to blame Johnson or our training staff, and ignore all other possibilities, go for it.

And sometimes aneurysms just happen.

But again, if I smoke you in the head with a bat a few moments before said aneurysm, it's going to make you take pause, is it not?

KC Hawks

09-12-2011, 02:40 PM

It doesn't matter if you know what he's thinking.

Afterall, he's the smartest man in the room.

Heh, if this season goes the way I'm fearing it will, then we won't have to worry about Haley or Muir much longer.

OnTheWarpath58

09-12-2011, 02:40 PM

What? Berry was limping when a 6'2 210 guy hit his knee you keep ignoring this fact. Your logic that it had nothing to do with his injury is amusing. Bernard Pollard's hit on Tom Brady had nothing to do with him getting hurt either right? It was the way Brady pivoted?

You're being ridiculously irrational.

You have ZERO proof that Johnson's hit weakened Berry's knee.

"Limping" doesn't automatically equal structural damage, FFS.

All I'm saying is that there is no proof whatsoever that the hit caused the blowout - on a later play.

Then again, I'm not ignorant of the fact that fluke shit (like Welker's injury, which looked eerily similar to Eric's) happens in professional sports. Enjoy your scapegoating.

Stop, Chiefs

09-12-2011, 02:42 PM

This is retarded. Right after Johnson nails Berry, he's grabbing the same knee as the trainers run over, then they start pointing at it and working it.

I'd hate Pioli if I was Todd Haley. Nobody should be stuck with Matt Cassel and Tyson Jackson without having any say on the issue.

JASONSAUTO

09-12-2011, 02:44 PM

You're being ridiculously irrational.

You have ZERO proof that Johnson's hit weakened Berry's knee.

"Limping" doesn't automatically equal structural damage, FFS.

All I'm saying is that there is no proof whatsoever that the hit caused the blowout - on a later play.

Then again, I'm not ignorant of the fact that fluke shit (like Welker's injury, which looked eerily similar to Eric's) happens in professional sports. Enjoy your scapegoating.

i think you are being a little irrational here. how many plays was he back in on before it buckled?

only a handful. could it be coincidence?

of course, are people ignorant for assuming it had something to do with the injury?

of course not.

Billay

09-12-2011, 02:45 PM

You're being ridiculously irrational.

You have ZERO proof that Johnson's hit weakened Berry's knee.

"Limping" doesn't automatically equal structural damage, FFS.

All I'm saying is that there is no proof whatsoever that the hit caused the blowout - on a later play.

Then again, I'm not ignorant of the fact that fluke shit (like Welker's injury, which looked eerily similar to Eric's) happens in professional sports. Enjoy your scapegoating.

Limping wouldn't indicate some sort of injury? Wow.

Pants

09-12-2011, 02:45 PM

i think you are being a little irrational here. how many plays was he back in on before it buckled?

only a handful. could it be coincidence?

of course, are people ignorant for assuming it had something to do with the injury?

of course not.

I think it was his next play, actually. Could be wrong though.

OnTheWarpath58

09-12-2011, 02:46 PM

And sometimes aneurysms just happen.

But again, if I smoke you in the head with a bat a few moments before said aneurysm, it's going to make you take pause, is it not?

So basically you're saying that the Chiefs medical staff is so incompetent as to miss one of the easiest injuries to diagnose - and allowed Berry back on the field?

God knows I'm hard on this organization, but even I can't go that far.

Johnny Vegas

09-12-2011, 02:46 PM

I have it recorded I'll go and check now

suzzer99

09-12-2011, 02:48 PM

You LUCK piners need to really get over it. A) The odds of getting him are really low even if we play horrible the rest of the way and B) the damage a 3-13 season would do to our team, morale, fans where we don't get Luck would be immense. Then we'll just end up getting another Tyson Jackson.

OnTheWarpath58

09-12-2011, 02:48 PM

Limping wouldn't indicate some sort of injury? Wow.

Some sort of injury? Sure. I've been hit in the knee by a football helmet before. Bone bruise. I limped.

But back to Berry, does it (limping) mean beyond a shadow of a doubt his ACL was strained or torn on that play?

Nope.

vailpass

09-12-2011, 02:48 PM

This is retarded. Right after Johnson nails Berry, he's grabbing the same knee as the trainers run over, then they start pointing at it and working it.

Correlation. Causality. Research Methods 101.

Stop, Chiefs

09-12-2011, 02:49 PM

i think you are being a little irrational here. how many plays was he back in on before it buckled?

only a handful. could it be coincidence?

of course, are people ignorant for assuming it had something to do with the injury?

of course not.

He was in for exactly 1 play, Buffalo's first TD.

Here's how it went:

1. Berry gets hit.
2. Berry goes out of the game.
3. Berry comes back in, Buffalo scores.
4. Chiefs go back on D, first play Berry plants and his ACL explodes.

Chiefnj2

09-12-2011, 02:50 PM

So basically you're saying that the Chiefs medical staff is so incompetent as to miss one of the easiest injuries to diagnose - and allowed Berry back on the field?

God knows I'm hard on this organization, but even I can't go that far.

What makes you say its one of the easiest injuries to diagnose? Isn't that why he went for an mri today?

bevischief

09-12-2011, 02:50 PM

I have it recorded I'll go and check now

You haven't deleted that game yet? ....

Stop, Chiefs

09-12-2011, 02:50 PM

Correlation. Causality. Research Methods 101.

Do you think that there is a reason the Chiefs are mad at Stevie Johnson?

I'd guess there is a pretty good one.

OnTheWarpath58

09-12-2011, 02:51 PM

What makes you say its one of the easiest injuries to diagnose? Isn't that why he went for an mri today?

Have you even blown out a knee?

I'm assuming not, because you'd know why MRI's are requested even if the injury is properly diagnosed.

Fuck, even a High School trainer can manipulate a knee to hell if an ACL is torn.

The MRI is used to check the severity of the tear, and to check for other structural damage.

kcpasco

09-12-2011, 02:51 PM

He was in for exactly 1 play, Buffalo's first TD.

Here's how it went:

1. Berry gets hit.
2. Berry goes out of the game.
3. Berry comes back in, Buffalo scores.
4. Chiefs go back on D, first play Berry plants and his ACL explodes.

5. The training staff has some muthafucking splaining to do.

RAIDER951

09-12-2011, 02:52 PM

It's a shame to see such a talent like Berry out for the season. Hope he has a full recovery

DJ's left nut

09-12-2011, 02:52 PM

So basically you're saying that the Chiefs medical staff is so incompetent as to miss one of the easiest injuries to diagnose - and allowed Berry back on the field?

God knows I'm hard on this organization, but even I can't go that far.

Um....yeah, pretty much.

More accurately, I think they were desperate and saw what they wanted to see. They fell victim to confirmation bias.

Berry came over w/ his dinged knee. He told them that he felt sore but wanted to go back in. They took his word for it, gave him a cursory look-over, saw that the Bills were about to score a TD less than a minute into the home-opener w/ their best player on the sideline and said "Looks good to me..."

It was a 'heat of the moment' mistake made under time/competitive constraints by a staff that didn't do it's job terribly well. How is that any different than Cassel throwing to the wrong guy because he mis-read the coverage under duress?

Ultimately it came down to one individual giving the thumbs up. With so much chaos and maelstrom, and being a critical moment in the home opener for a team that just made the playoffs, that individual made a very poor judgment call and sent Berry out there.

I think that scenario is much more likely than Berry getting blasted in the knee then having the same knee coincidentally pop the very next time he took the field.

vailpass

09-12-2011, 02:52 PM

Do you think that there is a reason the Chiefs are mad at Stevie Johnson?

I'd guess there is a pretty good one.

No doubt there are may chiefs fans angry with Johnson for the injury that has befallen them.

People used to get mad at the gods for plague, famine and floods.

In neither case does righteous anger at the correlation denote causality.

Chiefnj2

09-12-2011, 02:52 PM

Have you even blown out a knee?

I'm assuming not, because you'd know why MRI's are requested even if the injury is properly diagnosed.

Someone I know completely tore their ACL. The emergency room dr said no tear, get an MRI tomorrow, just ice it for the night. There are also degrees of tears. He could have had a partial tear on the initial hit.

OnTheWarpath58

09-12-2011, 02:53 PM

Um....yeah, pretty much.

More accurately, I think they were desperate and saw what they wanted to see. They fell victim to confirmation bias.

Berry came over w/ his dinged knee. He told them that he felt sore but wanted to go back in. They took his word for it, gave him a cursory look-over, saw that the Bills were about to score a TD less than a minute into the home-opener w/ their best player on the sideline and said "Looks good to me..."

It was a 'heat of the moment' mistake made under time/competitive constraints by a staff that didn't do it's job terribly well. How is that any different than Cassel throwing to the wrong guy because he mis-read the coverage under duress?

Ultimately it came down to one individual giving the thumbs up. With so much chaos and maelstrom, and being a critical moment in the home opener for a team that just made the playoffs, that individual made a very poor judgment call and sent Berry out there.

I think that scenario is much more likely than Berry getting blasted in the knee then having the same knee coincidentally pop the very next time he took the field.

Wow. Can't go there, man, but have fun.

Stop, Chiefs

09-12-2011, 02:54 PM

Also, coaching staffs from the Parcells tree have a HISTORY of putting injured players back out onto the field. To suggest that the training staff is above criticism is ignoring that.

Bwana

09-12-2011, 02:54 PM

You haven't deleted that game yet? ....

Heh, I did! I walked over to the TV armed with a cross, a garlic clove and loaded my Glock 20 with sivler bullets just in case, before deleting it.

Stop, Chiefs

09-12-2011, 02:54 PM

No doubt there are may chiefs fans angry with Johnson for the injury that has befallen them.

People used to get mad at the gods for plague, famine and floods.

In neither case does righteous anger at the correlation denote causality.

I'm not talking about the fans.

I'm talking about the CHIEFS.

Berry’s camp, we’re told, definitely believes that Johnson should be fined for diving helmet first at Berry’s lower legs while trying to throw a block ahead of the ball carrier.

JASONSAUTO

09-12-2011, 02:55 PM

I think it was his next play, actually. Could be wrong though.

He was in for exactly 1 play, Buffalo's first TD.

Here's how it went:

1. Berry gets hit.
2. Berry goes out of the game.
3. Berry comes back in, Buffalo scores.
4. Chiefs go back on D, first play Berry plants and his ACL explodes.

thanks. i thought it was 2 but goddamn how can people tell others they are ignorant for assuming the hit and the injury are related?

Donger

09-12-2011, 02:55 PM

He was in for exactly 1 play, Buffalo's first TD.

Here's how it went:

1. Berry gets hit.
2. Berry goes out of the game.
3. Berry comes back in, Buffalo scores.
4. Chiefs go back on D, first play Berry plants and his ACL explodes.

Do you have a gif of #4?

OnTheWarpath58

09-12-2011, 02:55 PM

Someone I know completely tore their ACL. The emergency room dr said no tear, get an MRI tomorrow, just ice it for the night. There are also degrees of tears. He could have had a partial tear on the initial hit.

thanks. i thought it was 2 but goddamn how can people tell others they are ignorant for assuming the hit and the injury are related?

Well, at least you admit you are assuming.

JASONSAUTO

09-12-2011, 02:57 PM

Well, at least you admit you are assuming.

and so are you buddy.

4th and Long

09-12-2011, 02:57 PM

On my more rational days, yes.

On others, I just sit quietly in my office and hurl shit at my monitor. Alas, that isn't really reflected in my post count.

You should probably consider a similar approach, only consider doing it every day.
The hospital frowns upon an 18 year employee (tomorrow) damaging company equipment.

I prefer to open the narc cabinent and snort a few lines of cocaine instead.

:D

Billay

09-12-2011, 02:57 PM

I'd like to know OTW why you think me of all people are scapegoating?

Stop, Chiefs

09-12-2011, 02:58 PM

Do you have a gif of #4?

Yes, it's been posted.

OnTheWarpath58

09-12-2011, 02:58 PM

Do you have a gif of #4?

I doubt I'm not the only one that would like to see the beginning of that play.

http://uranus.ckt.net/~gochiefs/knee.gif

DJ's left nut

09-12-2011, 02:58 PM

Wow. Can't go there, man, but have fun.

Medical professionals make mistakes fairly frequently. They make a LOT of mistakes when their patients aren't forthright with them. They make even more mistakes when they have all of about 1 minute to make a diagnosis.

Sorry, but I've seen Blaine Gabbert fire footballs into defensive backs with no explanation. I've seen baseball players try to bunt for a base hit with the bases loaded and 2-outs. I've seen people do really stupid things under the strain of competitive pressure and time limitations.

I think human error by a trainer is far far more likely to be what we're looking at here than a mere strong coincidence.

Stop, Chiefs

09-12-2011, 02:59 PM

Well, at least you admit you are assuming.

When two planes crashed into the world trade center I assumed it was terrorists.

BossChief

09-12-2011, 02:59 PM

OTWP, did you get a serious concussion or something a few months ago?

Something seems off since then with your posts.

Did somebody steal your login?

Johnny Vegas

09-12-2011, 02:59 PM

he was out 2 plays after the injury and came in on the scoring play. First play Bills had he went down on his own.

Donger

09-12-2011, 02:59 PM

I doubt I'm not the only one that would like to see the beginning of that play.

http://uranus.ckt.net/~gochiefs/knee.gif

Ugh. Thanks.

oldandslow

09-12-2011, 02:59 PM

Correlation. Causality. Research Methods 101.

Correlation is about the best we can ever do...using Research Methods 101. There is rarely proof of a definite 100% causation of anything. Now if you want to talk about the strength of a correlation, then we have room for discussion.

OnTheWarpath58

09-12-2011, 03:00 PM

and so are you buddy.

I've never said I wasn't.

I have no proof either, but I'm not the one talking in absolutes.

I'm not ignorant to the fact that there's more than one possibility in play here.

DJ's left nut

09-12-2011, 03:00 PM

I still liked that play better when I was in the stands and didn't really get a good look at it.

Looking at that GIF, I wonder why there was ever a question what happened. The dude's knee turned to jelly - why did it take a day to figure out that his knee blew up?

Ugh, just turns my stomach to see it.

vailpass

09-12-2011, 03:01 PM

I'm not talking about the fans.

I'm talking about the CHIEFS.

Is it your position that one team accusing another team of foul play is proof positive of said foul play?

DJ's left nut

09-12-2011, 03:02 PM

I hit him in the head with a bat.

Don't blame me for his line of thought here, though. Sometimes people just go full retard without prompting.

RedNeckRaider

09-12-2011, 03:02 PM

It's a shame to see such a talent like Berry out for the season. Hope he has a full recovery

This, and they do wonders with that type of injury these days. He will be back, but it always sucks to lose a key player any time of the year. In a loss first game sucks. As far as the game the old saying still holds true: Nobody is as bad as they look in a blowout and nobody is as good as they look in a blowout~

OnTheWarpath58

09-12-2011, 03:02 PM

I'd like to know OTW why you think me of all people are scapegoating?

Oh, it's not just you.

This entire board is going apeshit wanting to blame the Johnson hit for the later blowout - because it's easier than admitting it could have just as easily been a fluke injury one play later - a play you see quite often in professional sports - foot plants, knee blows.

kstater

09-12-2011, 03:03 PM

I still liked that play better when I was in the stands and didn't really get a good look at it.

Looking at that GIF, I wonder why there was ever a question what happened. The dude's knee turned to jelly - why did it take a day to figure out that his knee blew up?

Ugh, just turns my stomach to see it.

Don't kid yourself. They knew when he went down the second time. It just became public today.

Stop, Chiefs

09-12-2011, 03:03 PM

I doubt I'm not the only one that would like to see the beginning of that play.

http://uranus.ckt.net/~gochiefs/knee.gif

He's standing still and then he begins to run forward.

vailpass

09-12-2011, 03:03 PM

Correlation is about the best we can ever do...using Research Methods 101. There is rarely proof of a definite 100% causation of anything. Now if you want to talk about the strength of a correlation, then we have room for discussion.

I'd first like to establish the credentials of the researcher(s) and lay out the methodology. Sample size will be understandably limited.

Jerm

09-12-2011, 03:04 PM

F...M...L...

...end of

Mr. Laz

09-12-2011, 03:05 PM

http://uranus.ckt.net/%7Egochiefs/knee.gif

That looks terrible

complete tear? pulled from bone?

DJ's left nut

09-12-2011, 03:05 PM

Oh, it's not just you.

This entire board is going apeshit wanting to blame the Johnson hit for the later blowout - because it's easier than admitting it could have just as easily been a fluke injury one play later - a play you see quite often in professional sports - foot plants, knee blows.

On soft grass?

If it's a high-speed cut on turf, I guess. But combine the previous hit with the fact that the non-contact injury came on a soft field and at relatively low speeds (he wasn't exactly flying to the line there) and it seems like one scenario is significantly more likely than the other.

(That said, it's still not Johnson's fault - his hit was legal)

4th and Long

09-12-2011, 03:06 PM

Medical professionals make mistakes fairly frequently. They make a LOT of mistakes when their patients aren't forthright with them. They make even more mistakes when they have all of about 1 minute to make a diagnosis.
If the patient won't give you details, that's not "making a mistake." Health care professionlas have to work with the information they are given. If further testing is obviously needed, it should get ordered, when at all possible. Patients have the right to refuse treatment and testing. It's the law.

DJ's left nut

09-12-2011, 03:07 PM

Don't kid yourself. They knew when he went down the second time. It just became public today.

No doubt - I'm certain the team knew.

But it seems like the fans were willfully ignorant here. Had I seen that clip last night, there wouldn't have been much question in my mind.

That was as clear as day: catastrophic knee injury. And since it was a lateral blowout, the ACL was most likely.

I think we had a lot of fans last night that just didn't want to face the horror for another 18 hours.

Great Expectations

09-12-2011, 03:07 PM

How quick people are to bail on Stanzi for Luck...

Outside of a few Iowa fans I didn't think anyone was ever seriously calling on Stanzi. He is just fun to rep because of his great american hero status.

vailpass

09-12-2011, 03:07 PM

If the patient won't give you details, that's not "making a mistake." Health care professionlas have to work with the information they are given. If further testing is obviously needed, it should get ordered, when at all possible. Patients have the right to refuse treatment and testing. It's the law.

It's a little different with pro athletes.

Donger

09-12-2011, 03:07 PM

Oh, it's not just you.

This entire board is going apeshit wanting to blame the Johnson hit for the later blowout - because it's easier than admitting it could have just as easily been a fluke injury one play later - a play you see quite often in professional sports - foot plants, knee blows.

Well, what are the facts?

1) Berry was hit on the left knee and left the field.

2) Berry returned and had that same knee give out.

Which is more likely?

1) It was a fluke that the same knee gave out and would have without the hit?

2) Some damage was done by Johnson's block to the same knee that gave out?

OnTheWarpath58

09-12-2011, 03:08 PM

He's standing still and then he begins to run forward.

And just happens to plant that left foot at the 28 yard line with no consequences before it buckles on him at the 30 yard line.

I'm not saying with 100% certainty that his ACL was intact before this play, all I'm saying is that people are ignorant to claim with 100% certainty that his ACL was damaged before this play.

4th and Long

09-12-2011, 03:08 PM

On soft grass?

If it's a high-speed cut on turf, I guess. But combine the previous hit with the fact that the non-contact injury came on a soft field and at relatively low speeds (he wasn't exactly flying to the line there) and it seems like one scenario is significantly more likely than the other.

(That said, it's still not Johnson's fault - his hit was legal)
Wear and (pardon the pun) tear is a factor. I had a coworker tear her ACL when she simply planted her foot to make a normal every day turn on the floor at a normal rate of walking speed.

These things can happen.

vailpass

09-12-2011, 03:08 PM

Well, what are the facts?

1) Berry was hit on the left knee and left the field.

2) Berry returned and had that same knee give out.

Which is more likely?

1) It was a fluke that the same knee gave out and would have without the hit?

2) Some damage was done by Johnson's block to the same knee that gave out?

2

BossChief

09-12-2011, 03:09 PM

I shot the guy in the head, but it was hitting the ground the actually killed him
!!!

4th and Long

09-12-2011, 03:09 PM

It's a little different with pro athletes.
The law isn't different for pro athletes, although it can get shoved under the carpet when a blind eye is turned.

JASONSAUTO

09-12-2011, 03:10 PM

On soft grass?

If it's a high-speed cut on turf, I guess. But combine the previous hit with the fact that the non-contact injury came on a soft field and at relatively low speeds (he wasn't exactly flying to the line there) and it seems like one scenario is significantly more likely than the other.

THIS

OnTheWarpath58

09-12-2011, 03:10 PM

On soft grass?

If it's a high-speed cut on turf, I guess. But combine the previous hit with the fact that the non-contact injury came on a soft field and at relatively low speeds (he wasn't exactly flying to the line there) and it seems like one scenario is significantly more likely than the other.

(That said, it's still not Johnson's fault - his hit was legal)

Apparently we're going to agree to disagree on causation. I realize that there are two possibilities here, while others only seem to be willing to see one.

I'm done with this "discussion." You guys enjoy "knowing" with 100% certainty that the Johnson hit was to blame.

Meanwhile, I'll defer the rest of my comments to the guys sitting in the bleachers in Major League.

"Who gives a shit, he's gone?"

Fritz88

09-12-2011, 03:16 PM

http://uranus.ckt.net/%7Egochiefs/knee.gif

That looks terrible

complete tear? pulled from bone?

This would usually happen when the knee is damaged before, i.e., fucking Stevie Johnson.

DeezNutz

09-12-2011, 03:18 PM

Great news. Just great fucking news.

But teams suffer injuries all of the time, even to important pieces. Let's be honest, he's a major contributor for us, but we didn't lose a franchise QB. High-quality teams should be able to overcome the loss.

Pestilence

09-12-2011, 03:19 PM

Great news. Just great fucking news.

But teams suffer injuries all of the time, even to important pieces. Let's be honest, he's a major contributor for us, but we didn't lose a franchise QB. High-quality teams should be able to overcome the loss.

High quality teams are able to overcome a loss like this because they have quality depth. The Chiefs lack that quality depth. We're fucked.

HemiEd

09-12-2011, 03:20 PM

:facepalm:

How many guys have blown out an ACL with no prior injury before? Too many to count.

Watch the play again. That could just as easily have happened had he not been cut blocked the play before.

The gif actually starts as Berry is planting the leg in question - it doesn't buckle there, but the next time he plants his left foot.

I'd be interested to see the entire play, and see how he looked as he was running back onto the field and prior to the buckle.

http://uranus.ckt.net/~gochiefs/knee.gif

It looks to me like his left knee gave out the first time he planted it. It almost hit the ground, and he did not go down immediately. He went down when he tried to plant again.

Nano seconds, and millions of times of him doing it, he made one more attempt.

DaFace

09-12-2011, 03:20 PM

I suppose I may have to quell my Super Bowl optimism a bit.

HemiEd

09-12-2011, 03:21 PM

but we didn't lose a franchise QB. High-quality teams should be able to overcome the loss.

I guess that is the upside of not having one.

DJ's left nut

09-12-2011, 03:21 PM

Great news. Just great fucking news.

But teams suffer injuries all of the time, even to important pieces. Let's be honest, he's a major contributor for us, but we didn't lose a franchise QB. High-quality teams should be able to overcome the loss.

I dunno about that.

The Steelers are a completely different defense without Polumalu and you can make an argument that they have one of the best front 7s of the last 1/4 century.

Imagine the Ravens if Lewis goes down.

When the absolute best player on your defense drops over, especially if he's pro bowl caliber and you don't have a replacement of any value for him, your team is in a world of shit.

Historic teams like the 16-0 Patriots can deal with stuff like that. But "High-quality" teams aren't going to take that shot terribly well. The line between success/failure in this league is just too narrow for a team to lose their best player and keep humming.

Pants

09-12-2011, 03:21 PM

It looks to me like his left knee gave out the first time he planted it. It almost hit the ground, and he did not go down immediately. He went down when he tried to plant again.

Nano seconds, and millions of times of him doing it, he made one more attempt.

I don't think he ever planted that foot again. He was going down the whole time...

suzzer99

09-12-2011, 03:22 PM

If Karma truly exists, we're still getting paid back for Pollard

FYP

-King-

09-12-2011, 03:22 PM

I dunno about that.

The Steelers are a completely different defense without Polumalu and you can make an argument that they have one of the best front 7s of the last 1/4 century.

Imagine the Ravens if Lewis goes down.

When the absolute best player on your defense drops over, especially if he's pro bowl caliber and you don't have a replacement of any value for him, your team is in a world of shit.

Historic teams like the 16-0 Patriots can deal with stuff like that. But "High-quality" teams aren't going to take that shot terribly well. The line between success/failure in this league is just too narrow for a team to lose their best player and keep humming.

The Steelers are a completely different defense without Polumalu and you can make an argument that they have one of the best front 7s of the last 1/4 century.

Imagine the Ravens if Lewis goes down.

When the absolute best player on your defense drops over, especially if he's pro bowl caliber and you don't have a replacement of any value for him, your team is in a world of shit.

Historic teams like the 16-0 Patriots can deal with stuff like that. But "High-quality" teams aren't going to take that shot terribly well. The line between success/failure in this league is just too narrow for a team to lose their best player and keep humming.

It's highlighted b/c we have no depth, and our safety position is horse shit. And I certainly think it's up for debate whether or not Berry is even the best player on the defense.

If we can't overcome the loss of a single defensive player, we were a joke from the start.

DeezNutz

09-12-2011, 03:26 PM

High quality teams are able to overcome a loss like this because they have quality depth. The Chiefs lack that quality depth. We're ****ed.

So Pioli is a fucking idiot? OK.

cj2wr

09-12-2011, 03:27 PM

Wahhhhh. Berry is out!!!! Let's just forfeit the season since were 0-1. Jfc. Sucks he's gone but man the f*** up. Why should the chiefs bow down? I say they play w a chip on their shoulder and w nothing to lose then beat the lions. What a melt down this place will be if we win. I bet half of u will upset we won cuz u already committed to the Luck sweet stakes. Pussies. Oh yea.... Go chiefs!!!

It's highlighted b/c we have no depth, and our safety position is horse shit. And I certainly think it's up for debate whether or not Berry is even the best player on the defense.

If we can't overcome the loss of a single defensive player, we were a joke from the start.

I dont think its up for debate. He's hands down the best player we have on D. But there is no way that losing a Safety should make or break a teams D. Just shows how pathetic our overall personnel is.

Donger

09-12-2011, 03:29 PM

2

That seems logical.

Jerm

09-12-2011, 03:30 PM

If anyone wants to debate whether Berry is the most important player on the D or not, I give you yesterday....it's no coincidence that after his injury Gailey started attacking us deep esp. with the TE.

We could patchwork something together if another important D player went down...but this, we simply won't recover from.

</post>

09-12-2011, 03:31 PM

Wahhhhh. Berry is out!!!! Let's just forfeit the season since were 0-1. Jfc. Sucks he's gone but man the f*** up. Why should the chiefs bow down? I say they play w a chip on their shoulder and w nothing to lose then beat the lions. What a melt down this place will be if we win. I bet half of u will upset we won cuz u already committed to the Luck sweet stakes. Pussies. Oh yea.... Go chiefs!!!

What if we did kill the lions? It would be the biggest mind**** ever. Up would be down. Down would be Up. We'd have to say "Hello" when we leave, and "goodbye" when we arrive!

ChiefsandO'sfan

09-12-2011, 03:31 PM

Myron Rolle anyone

DeezNutz

09-12-2011, 03:32 PM

I dont think its up for debate. He's hands down the best player we have on D. But there is no way that losing a Safety should make or break a teams D. Just shows how pathetic our overall personnel is.

He's in the conversation with Hali and a healthy Flowers.

keg in kc

09-12-2011, 03:32 PM

First Moeaki and now Berry. I guess we've been overdue a visit from the injury fairy. But jesus.

Seasons are often determined by a series of factors outside a team's control, injuries being one of them. It probably doesn't bode well for the rest of the year that momentum started to swing the wrong way right after kickoff week one. This is probably going to snowball into something really ugly.

ThaVirus

09-12-2011, 03:35 PM

This pretty much ruins the season for me. I had all but given up yesterday but found solace in the fact that we'd be able to watch our young guys play and get better... This is a huge blow. I just hope he can come back next season with his knee 100%.

suzzer99

09-12-2011, 03:37 PM

Oh, it's not just you.

This entire board is going apeshit wanting to blame the Johnson hit for the later blowout - because it's easier than admitting it could have just as easily been a fluke injury one play later - a play you see quite often in professional sports - foot plants, knee blows.

Yeah because guy's knees just buckle from a very minor plant like that all the time. It's amazing any of us get through a pickup basketball game w/o tearing our ACLs.

Billay

09-12-2011, 03:38 PM

Myron Rolle anyone

No thanks.

jd1020

09-12-2011, 03:38 PM

He's in the conversation with Hali and a healthy Flowers.

Maybe in yours. I doubt many others.

Billay

09-12-2011, 03:39 PM

So Pioli is a ****ing idiot? OK.

Like I said and seriously think about this. It's very likely none of his 3 first round draft picks contribute shit this year.

Like I said and seriously think about this. It's very likely none of his 3 first round draft picks contribute shit this year.

Seriously think about what? What you're implying applies to Tyson Jackson only. You can't lay the blame for the fact that Berry and Baldwin won't be contributing much at Pioli's feet.

Billay

09-12-2011, 03:43 PM

Seriously think about what? What you're implying applies to Tyson Jackson. You can't lay the fact that Berry and Baldwin won't be contributing much at Pioli's feet.

Baldwin too. It doesn't help that all of Pioli's 2nd round picks including Cassel have sucked as well and he has 1 good free agent signing.

DeezNutz

09-12-2011, 03:44 PM

Like I said and seriously think about this. It's very likely none of his 3 first round draft picks contribute shit this year.

Jackson is a JAG, so the fact that he's a warm body is as productive as he'll ever be.

Berry: injured.

Baldwin: better damn well contribute. If he doesn't, it will be impressively disappointing.

lcarus

09-12-2011, 03:44 PM

I guess we've been overdue a visit from the injury fairy.

The injury fairy in this case looks like Deion from those Directv commercials, just Stevie Johnson instead.

WhiteWhale

09-12-2011, 03:45 PM

I dont think its up for debate. He's hands down the best player we have on D. But there is no way that losing a Safety should make or break a teams D. Just shows how pathetic our overall personnel is.

Tell that to the Steelers. Their defense goes to horse shit every time Troy gets injured.

DeezNutz

09-12-2011, 03:45 PM

Maybe in yours. I doubt many others.

You're getting ahead of yourself just a little. Berry looks like he'll develop into a monster (barring continued injuries), but he's not there yet.

Billay

09-12-2011, 03:47 PM

Jackson is a JAG, so the fact that he's a warm body is as productive as he'll ever be.

Berry: injured.

Baldwin: better damn well contribute. If he doesn't, it will be impressively disappointing.

I'm talking about just this season. If Baldwin comes in after missing a whole off season and most of the pre season I'd be very surprised. Your comment about Pioli is now looking like truth. One i'm not sure most fans can swallow.

go bowe

09-12-2011, 03:49 PM

The hospital frowns upon an 18 year employee (tomorrow) damaging company equipment.

I prefer to open the narc cabinent and snort a few lines of cocaine instead.

:D

narc cabinet eh?

are they hiring at your hospital?

JASONSAUTO

09-12-2011, 03:52 PM

Like I said and seriously think about this. It's very likely none of his 3 first round draft picks contribute shit this year.

lol and its pioli's fault right?

come on billay

jd1020

09-12-2011, 03:52 PM

You're getting ahead of yourself just a little. Berry looks like he'll develop into a monster (barring continued injuries), but he's not there yet.

Berry wasnt a monster last year? Hmmmm.

DJ's left nut

09-12-2011, 03:52 PM

Tell that to the Steelers. Their defense goes to horse shit every time Troy gets injured.

Or the Colts.

Dog-ass defense without Bob Sanders that tore shit up during their playoff run when he was healthy.

Is there anyone here that doubts for a second that he's happy that Berry got hurt?

A douche like that doesn't give a fuck about his teammate. This is the same guy that said he didn't get a fair shake in TB last season when he was one of the least productive players in football and said that it was rigged when he got cut.

There's little doubt in my mind that this guy's grin was a mile-wide when he heard the news.

Billay

09-12-2011, 03:56 PM

The worst part about that guy?

Is there anyone here that doubts for a second that he's happy that Berry got hurt?

A douche like that doesn't give a **** about his teammate. This is the same guy that said he didn't get a fair shake in TB last season when he was one of the least productive players in football and said that it was rigged when he got cut.

There's little doubt in my mind that this guy's grin was a mile-wide when he heard the news.

He's part of the right 53.

Stop, Chiefs

09-12-2011, 03:57 PM

He's a pretty good player, actually.

We need to bring in Mike Brown though, he'd be an upgrade.

http://i52.tinypic.com/uq3p5.jpg

DeezNutz

09-12-2011, 03:58 PM

Berry wasnt a monster last year? Hmmmm.

A damn good n00b? Yes. Troy Palaumallaunasa? No.

Billay

09-12-2011, 04:00 PM

lol and its pioli's fault right?

come on billay

Which is Pioli's fault? The injuries? No those are an unfortunate part of the game. The GM will be judged on overall performance of said picks though and I hope my comparison to this regime being what the Phil Savage era in Cleveland was is wrong but they look alot alike.

Rams Fan

09-12-2011, 04:01 PM

Which is Pioli's fault? The injuries? No those are an unfortunate part of the game. The GM will be judged on overall performance of said picks though and I hope my comparison to this regime being what the Phil Savage era in Cleveland was is wrong but they look alot alike.

Savage's Browns teams never made the playoffs...

DeezNutz

09-12-2011, 04:01 PM

Why didn't we sign Meriweather again?

DJ's left nut

09-12-2011, 04:02 PM

Why didn't we sign Meriweather again?

No need.

You're just not smart enough to realize it.

Billay

09-12-2011, 04:03 PM

Savage's Browns teams never made the playoffs...

But they did go 10-6 one year with Derek Anderson who Cassel looks like. Savage if you recall worked with BB and was considered a huge get for the Browns franchise.

Rams Fan

09-12-2011, 04:14 PM

But they did go 10-6 one year with Derek Anderson who Cassel looks like. Savage if you recall worked with BB and was considered a huge get for the Browns franchise.

Savage worked with BB in Cleveland. He was hired because of his work in Baltimore.

Billay

09-12-2011, 04:16 PM

Savage worked with BB in Cleveland. He was hired because of his work in Baltimore.

And none of your statements negate the point I have made if this team picks once again in the top 10.

Troll

09-12-2011, 04:22 PM

As I have mentioned in other treads I hope Berry returns 100%, great player to watch.

I was at the Raiders boards (raiderfans.net) to make my presence known there since we play them next week ;)

When I seen a thread titled Chiefs Safety Eric Berry Tore His ACL Cant provide links yet and I know their a hated division rival but take a look. You might be suprised

Flachief58

09-12-2011, 04:25 PM

As long as I've been watching the Chiefs, I've never been a doom and gloomer after the first week of the season but, after yesterdays abortion on the field combined with the loss of berry for the year, I can't see more than 2-4 w's. Very depressing......:banghead: :cuss:

PRIEST

09-12-2011, 04:34 PM

Fu#k just got home had a great day then this holy shit . :deevee:

Bwana

09-12-2011, 04:34 PM

As I have mentioned in other treads I hope Berry returns 100%, great player to watch.

I was at the Raiders boards (raiderfans.net) to make my presence known there since we play them next week ;)

When I seen a thread titled Chiefs Safety Eric Berry Tore His ACL Cant provide links yet and I know their a hated division rival but take a look. You might be suprised

Wow, I'm surprised. I'll tell you what though, we have a lot of Raider fans that post on this board, and most of them are good guys.

Agree with last post. I was hoping we'd build off the momentum of last season...but pre-season and the Baldwin/Jones thing made me nervous. Then, the debacle of yesterday...and losing a leader like Berry the same game is going to DESTROY this team's mojo. We're screwed....

MoreLemonPledge

09-12-2011, 04:36 PM

(Trying not to change my hatred for Raiders fans...)

Mr_Tomahawk

09-12-2011, 04:39 PM

Wow, I'm surprised. I'll tell you what though, we have a lot of Raider fans that post on this board, and most of them are good guys.

Which is Pioli's fault? The injuries? No those are an unfortunate part of the game. The GM will be judged on overall performance of said picks though and I hope my comparison to this regime being what the Phil Savage era in Cleveland was is wrong but they look alot alike.

Huh how can he be viewed in a negative light because they got hurt?
erform
Posted via Mobile Device

Detoxing

09-12-2011, 05:11 PM

What a depressing week of football. Week 1 is not suppose to feel like this.

Priest31kc

09-12-2011, 05:17 PM

What a depressing week of football. Week 1 is not suppose to feel like this.

Yeah its just an awful feeling knowing your season is over right when it starts. Especially after looking so forward to football and the season.

jd1020

09-12-2011, 05:19 PM

A damn good n00b? Yes. Troy Palaumallaunasa? No.

Is that why he had 30 more tackles, 1 more sack, and same amount of FFs as Polamalu? But I guess Polamalu did have 3 more INT's... gotta give him something.

ILChief

09-12-2011, 05:23 PM

Yeah its just an awful feeling knowing your season is over right when it starts. Especially after looking so forward to football and the season.

I just had a bad vibe about this season. From the horrid preseason, to the extremely crappy schedule, this just had disaster written all over it.

DeezNutz

09-12-2011, 05:27 PM

Is that why he had 30 more tackles, 1 more sack, and same amount of FFs as Polamalu? But I guess Polamalu did have 3 more INT's... gotta give him something.

Eric Berry was and is the best safety in football. Hali, who was second in the league in sacks and led the AFC in this category, cannot even sniff Berry's greatness.

Dave Lane

09-12-2011, 05:28 PM

In a heartbeat.

Shit, if Luck throws one bad pass in his entire career, half of Chiefsplanet will want him cut and burned in a fire.

This place is infested with morans after every loss

Billay

09-12-2011, 05:30 PM

Huh how can he be viewed in a negative light because they got hurt?
erform
Posted via Mobile Device

Because the teams win production will go down and this league is all about w's.

Dylan

09-12-2011, 05:54 PM

I wish Berry the best of luck recovering.

It looks like a chop block, where Stevie Johnson blocks Berry from behind below the knees.

* If this video offends anyone, please let me know and I will remove it immediately ...

To help NFL players understand their responsibility regarding player safety, this section contains clarifications and illustrations highlighting several of the League's unnecessary roughness and roughing the passer rules that are in effect. This is not a complete list of the rules. You are strongly advised to familiarize yourself with the more detailed and comprehensive descriptions contained in the NFL Rule Book and in particular the acts constituting unnecessary roughness and roughing the passer, detailed in Rule 12, Section 2, Articles 8 and 13.

Rule 12, Section 2 also contains other important player safety rules that are not specifically illustrated or clarified in this section. Included in Rule 12, Section 2 of the NFL Rule Book, and also of vital player safety importance, are the illegal chop block rules (Rule 12, Section 2, Article 16). In addition, it is not legal to clip in close line play, unless the block from behind is above the knees. Also if a blocker in close line play rolls up from behind on the back of a defender's legs, it is a foul for unnecessary roughness (Rule 12, Section 2, Article 9). For this reason, it is vitally important that you become familiar with all the Player Conduct rules found in Rule 12 of the NFL Rule Book.

This incident has caused me to seriously rethink my spirituality. I am no longer an atheist. I truly believe that there is a God.

And I curse His rotten name.

PunkinDrublic

09-12-2011, 06:54 PM

I will curse Stevie Johnsons twitter account until Berry returns.

jd1020

09-12-2011, 06:56 PM

What did we do to deserve this curse?

Became a fan.

Extra Point

09-12-2011, 07:02 PM

Outside the box, it's illegal. Period.

cdcox

09-12-2011, 07:04 PM

I saw this when I got out of class. Devastating. The whole season is flushed.

Urc Burry

09-12-2011, 07:06 PM

Am I right in thinking Berry is our most irreplaceable player on the team?

Hali goes down we still have Houston
Bowe-Baldwin
Flowers -Arenas
Charles- jones / mccluster
Cassel- anyone on the roster

But berry goes down and we have fucking Piscatelli and McGraw

dirk digler

09-12-2011, 07:09 PM

Fuck me running :(

Otter

09-12-2011, 07:16 PM

Unfucking believable

DeezNutz

09-12-2011, 07:21 PM

I saw this when I got out of class. Devastating. The whole season is flushed.

Keep plugging away, dude. You'll graduate eventually.

cabletech94

09-12-2011, 07:22 PM

9 long months of eager waiting, and i feel like i've watched santa claus slip and fall off my roof and break his back/neck on the outside patio table.

cdcox

09-12-2011, 07:26 PM

Keep plugging away, dude. You'll graduate eventually.

LMAO After 42 years with only a 3 year break in the middle, I think I'm hopeless.

ThaVirus

09-12-2011, 07:31 PM

I wish I could magically give him my ACL.

Seriously. I probably would if I could.

Mr. Laz

09-12-2011, 07:37 PM

Fuck me running :(GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*running*

Blick

09-12-2011, 07:39 PM

Am I right in thinking Berry is our most irreplaceable player on the team?

Hali goes down we still have Houston
Bowe-Baldwin
Flowers -Arenas
Charles- jones / mccluster
Cassel- anyone on the roster

But berry goes down and we have ****ing Piscatelli and McGraw

Yeah, I don't know how we entered the season with this crap at safety.

DeezNutz

09-12-2011, 07:46 PM

Yeah, I don't know how we entered the season with this crap at safety.

The same reasons why we entered the season with Richardson starting at RT and limited depth along the defensive line. Oh, and a host of backups at QB. Oh, oh, and $30M under the cap.

1. Pioli is overrated as all ****.
2. Clark is extraordinarily...prudent?...with funds while he works to regain the money he put into Arrowhead.

Bwana

09-12-2011, 08:16 PM

The same reasons why we entered the season with Richardson starting at RT and limited depth along the defensive line. Oh, and a host of backups at QB. Oh, oh, and $30M under the cap.

1. Pioli is overrated as all ****.
2. Clark is extraordinarily...prudent?...with funds while he works to regain the money he put into Arrowhead.

In a few weeks, Arrowhead is going to be a dust bowl at this rate. You will be able to hear a pin drop, on game day.

jd1020

09-12-2011, 08:17 PM

In a few weeks, Arrowhead is going to be a dust bowl at this rate. You will be able to hear a pin drop, on game day.

Is Haley still on the sideline? If so, I call bullshit.

aturnis

09-12-2011, 08:17 PM

Anybody think that maybe the hit Stevie Johnson laid on Berry's knee led to only a small tear. Then the trainers let it go, with Berry wanting to get back in the game(you can't play injured, you can play hurt)? Berry thinking he could play through the pain, not thinking it was an ACL. Then, when he tried to make that cut, he fully tore his ACL?

jd1020

09-12-2011, 08:17 PM

Anybody think that maybe the hit Stevie Johnson laid on Berry's knee led to only a small tear. Then the trainers let it go, with Berry wanting to get back in the game(you can't play injured, you can play hurt)? Berry thinking he could play through the pain, not thinking it was an ACL. Then, when he tried to make that cut, he fully tore his ACL?

What does it matter? He went back out and it's torn.

Mr. Laz

09-12-2011, 08:18 PM

StevieJohnson13 (http://twitter.com/#%21/StevieJohnson13) Stevie Johnson <s>@</s>Stuntman1429 (http://twitter.com/#%21/Stuntman1429) Not expecting reply but Heard final news and Real shyt bra Never intended for that. Not even for U to sit for 1 play man. My B
51 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/StevieJohnson13/status/113423049923112960)

Okie_Apparition

09-12-2011, 08:20 PM

Haley forced Berry to play because he is in fear of his job/coming from the KC Media in the near future

dirk digler

09-12-2011, 08:25 PM

The same reasons why we entered the season with Richardson starting at RT and limited depth along the defensive line. Oh, and a host of backups at QB. Oh, oh, and $30M under the cap.

1. Pioli is overrated as all ****.
2. Clark is extraordinarily...prudent?...with funds while he works to regain the money he put into Arrowhead.

I think right now Pioli has done fairly good job considering he works for a cheap ass owner.

BigMeatballDave

09-12-2011, 08:26 PM

I think right now Pioli has done fairly good job considering he works for a cheap ass owner.Matt Cassel

Mr. Arrowhead

09-12-2011, 08:28 PM

StevieJohnson13 (http://twitter.com/#%21/StevieJohnson13) Stevie Johnson <s>@</s>Stuntman1429 (http://twitter.com/#%21/Stuntman1429) Not expecting reply but Heard final news and Real shyt bra Never intended for that. Not even for U to sit for 1 play man. My B
51 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/StevieJohnson13/status/113423049923112960)

dam why did he call him a bitch at the end

Tribal Warfare

09-12-2011, 08:58 PM

With this fucked up news we could legitimately talk about KC picking in the top 5 in the draft.........again.

BossChief

09-12-2011, 09:49 PM

The same reasons why we entered the season with Richardson starting at RT and limited depth along the defensive line. Oh, and a host of backups at QB. Oh, oh, and $30M under the cap.

1. Pioli is overrated as all ****.
2. Clark is extraordinarily...prudent?...with funds while he works to regain the money he put into Arrowhead.

After him extending the contracts of Hali, DJ and Charles within the last year along with signing Breaston and a bunch of other quality free agents...how can you say he is cheap with a straight face anymore?

2/3 of his drafts have yielded more talent than any other team has during that same span as well.

He also brought in the coaches that have gotten the best out of the little talent that was already in house.

Calling him overrated because of poor depth at a couple positions takes balls.

I think right now Pioli has done fairly good job considering he works for a cheap ass owner.

Tyson Jackson, Dexter McBUSTer...

Urc Burry

09-12-2011, 10:01 PM

After him extending the contracts of Hali, DJ and Charles within the last year along with signing Breaston and a bunch of other quality free agents...how can you say he is cheap with a straight face anymore?

2/3 of his drafts have yielded more talent than any other team has during that same span as well.

He also brought in the coaches that have gotten the best out of the little talent that was already in house.

Calling him overrated because of poor depth at a couple positions takes balls.

Losing Berry is a crippling blow, no doubt...but it's hardly Piolis fault.
Word. The patriots in the early 2000's did not have half the depth they do now. It takes years to build a team

Chiefnj2

09-12-2011, 10:11 PM

2/3 of his drafts have yielded more talent than any other team has during that same span as well.

.

Really? This year is 1 week old, so you can't come to any conclusion on the draft. You think the 2009 and 2010 draft added more talent than any other team in the NFL?

BossChief

09-12-2011, 10:18 PM

Really? This year is 1 week old, so you can't come to any conclusion on the draft. You think the 2009 and 2010 draft added more talent than any other team in the NFL?

I'm sorry you can't decipher between the term "talent" and something like "valuable players"

I really am.

Chiefnj2

09-12-2011, 10:20 PM

I'm sorry you can't decipher between the term "talent" and something like "valuable players"

I really am.

The 2009 draft sucked and 2010 wasn't that great outside of Berry. I don't give a crap if you can't grasp it.

Messier

09-12-2011, 10:22 PM

The 2009 draft sucked and 2010 wasn't that great outside of Berry. I don't give a crap if you can't grasp it.

I think your wrong about the 2010 draft.

Chiefnj2

09-12-2011, 10:30 PM

I think your wrong about the 2010 draft.

You can't blow two second round picks in an extraordinarily deep draft. Giving up extra picks for a TE who was injured more than healthy in college when several similar players were still available? Without Berry the entire secondary, including Lewis, looks bad although he showed promise last year.

BossChief

09-12-2011, 10:31 PM

The 2009 draft sucked and 2010 wasn't that great outside of Berry. I don't give a crap if you can't grasp it.

Injuries aside, we hit on every single pick from the 2010 draft.

That is an epic draft in any year and if you don't understand that, I'm not surprised.

I'm shocked you know how to breathe.

mcaj22

09-12-2011, 10:33 PM

the 2009 draft was utter failure

this teams entire core talent and all the fan favorites was built on draft(s) from a prior coaching staff/GM that everyone here hated, think about that

Messier

09-12-2011, 10:41 PM

You can't blow two second round picks in an extraordinarily deep draft. Giving up extra picks for a TE who was injured more than healthy in college when several similar players were still available? Without Berry the entire secondary, including Lewis, looks bad although he showed promise last year.

I don't know the two second rounders were "blown". I don't like Arenas, but McCluster might be one of our better offensive weapons this year.

Moeaki is good. I don't care that he's out this year. He's shown that was a worthwhile pick. Asamoah has struggled a bit, but I think he'll improve into a solid starting guard. Lewis is good value, and Sheffield looks promising. It was more than a one player draft.

lcarus

09-12-2011, 10:42 PM

the 2009 draft was utter failure

this teams entire core talent and all the fan favorites was built on draft(s) from a prior coaching staff/GM that everyone here hated, think about that

Sad but true.

Messier

09-12-2011, 10:51 PM

the 2009 draft was utter failure

this teams entire core talent and all the fan favorites was built on draft(s) from a prior coaching staff/GM that everyone here hated, think about that

I do think about that, and I think thank goodness the last few drafts of Peterson were so good. I don't blame Pioli because he inherited several very good players. Was he suppose to cut them and start over?
He's adding to that core. 2009 was an awful draft, but he's followed it up with a very good draft, and another that could be good as well.

If you want to run Pioli you'll have to wait several years. GMs aren't hired and fired season to season like coaches. They get many chances. Pioli will out last Haley, and probably the coach after that.

Tribal Warfare

09-12-2011, 10:54 PM

Hopefully it wasn't a full blown rupture, and just a slight tear ( which is recoverable to make to his normal play)

Bewbies

09-12-2011, 11:01 PM

the 2009 draft was utter failure

this teams entire core talent and all the fan favorites was built on draft(s) from a prior coaching staff/GM that everyone here hated, think about that

This is just a wee bit of an exaggeration. The best player we have was drafted by Pioli.

lostcause

09-12-2011, 11:03 PM

This is just a wee bit of an exaggeration. The best player we have was drafted by Pioli.

you people make no sense - recall that as awesome as berry is, that he sucked balls in coverage. remember that, doomsayers, berry ball lickers. he gave up tds at an alarming rate. i love the guy, but this is not the end of the world.

you people make no sense - recall that as awesome as berry is, that he sucked balls in coverage. remember that, doomsayers, berry ball lickers. he gave up tds at an alarming rate. i love the guy, but this is not the end of the world.
Unicorns and Rainbows

you people make no sense - recall that as awesome as berry is, that he sucked balls in coverage. remember that, doomsayers, berry ball lickers. he gave up tds at an alarming rate. i love the guy, but this is not the end of the world.

He had all but solved that problem by the end of the year. He was everywhere in the playoff game. For most, by the end of the season the best safeties in the nfl were Reed and Polamalu with Berry the next in line.

Smed1065

09-12-2011, 11:35 PM

All 3 of those guys aren't as good as Berry. And none are more important to the team.

LOL

Yeah Hali sucks. Just because you might not have cared for him does not mean he is less important.

I met his dad and him once, was on the way to the dreaded Indy game. They both had so much heart, I never thought we could lose.

Maybe Berry had too much heart to quit when he needed. I love ballers but there is a reason they are few and in between.

you people make no sense - recall that as awesome as berry is, that he sucked balls in coverage. remember that, doomsayers, berry ball lickers. he gave up tds at an alarming rate. i love the guy, but this is not the end of the world.

We still have a backfield consisting of jones, mccluster, and McClain.. Yes it would be a stepback, and but not near as big as we are about to experience

lostcause

09-12-2011, 11:36 PM

Any of the three are debatable as a better player to Berry, but none of them would be foolish to debate about.

Charles is a somewhat fragile back that turns over the ball in some really crucial situations.

Hali has had one really good year out of five and is a bit one dimensional. He is also slow in the open field and is probably limited to being a pass rusher only.

Flowers is the best of the three IMO but has lost games to injury every year and is size and speed limited.

Berry is equally as good against the pass and run and is a huge playmaker with potential to be the best in the league at his respective position.

I don't think it's as big a stretch as you may think to say that Berry was on his way to being our best player (if he wasn't already)

I guess we shall see. But looking back to last year, Berry (as a rookie, noted) wasn't nearly as important as hali, charles or flowers in getting us to the playoffs. And I see no reason why, injury or no injury, it would be different this year. (Look, the guy is a ridiculous talent, but he isn't the Chiefs defense, he just isn't.)

you people make no sense - recall that as awesome as berry is, that he sucked balls in coverage. remember that, doomsayers, berry ball lickers. he gave up tds at an alarming rate. i love the guy, but this is not the end of the world.

If Charles were to get hurt, McCluster and McClain could probably sustain the running game and keep it effective.

If Hali were to go down, Houston and Sheffield could continue to give the team a good pass rush.

We just got a taste of how much we are gonna miss Berry.

He got beat a lot early last year, but by years end he was solid as fuck in coverage.

Losing Moeaki and Berry are absolutely crippling blows to both sides of the ball.

</post>

09-12-2011, 11:41 PM

I guess we shall see. But looking back to last year, Berry (as a rookie, noted) wasn't nearly as important as hali, charles or flowers in getting us to the playoffs. And I see no reason why, injury or no injury, it would be different this year. (Look, the guy is a ridiculous talent, but he isn't the Chiefs defense, he just isn't.)

He was the only player to play every defensive snap last year. Your stance is decent but your take on it sucks.

CAN I BE IN UR SIGNATURE NAOW!

...or are you running out of space before the night is over?

KCrockaholic

09-12-2011, 11:43 PM

If Charles were to get hurt, McCluster and McClain could probably sustain the running game and keep it effective.

If Hali were to go down, Houston and Sheffield could continue to give the team a good pass rush.

We just got a taste of how much we are gonna miss Berry.

He got beat a lot early last year, but by years end he was solid as fuck in coverage.

Losing Moeaki and Berry are absolutely crippling blows to both sides of the ball.

You watch and see just how important Berry was to this team. And I'm not just talking about the safeties. Flowers, and Carr will both be beat more often now.

Remember that TD catch from Johnson on Flowers? That doesn't happen with Berry coming over the top.

McGraw was slow and out of position like usual.

It's gonna be a rough season.

With Berry being out, our corners will be playing too far off as a result as well.

BossChief

09-12-2011, 11:44 PM

Pretty much all of you need to shut up.

LMAO

Nice addition

xztop12

09-13-2011, 04:53 AM

These are some phantom ACL tears. EB was walking with a VERY SLIGHT limp after the injury. Moeaki was standing upright on the sideline after his supposed ACL tear. Before this, when Brady limped off the field after he tore his- I thought that was insane. Usually ACL tears demand a guy being carted off and a lot of screaming.

Bewbies

09-13-2011, 07:40 AM

LOL

Yeah Hali sucks. Just because you might not have cared for him does not mean he is less important.

I met his dad and him once, was on the way to the dreaded Indy game. They both had so much heart, I never thought we could lose.

Maybe Berry had too much heart to quit when he needed. I love ballers but there is a reason they are few and in between.

Hali is a fucking stud. Berry being better than him, and more important to this team doesn't mean Hali sucks. LMAO

Bewbies

09-13-2011, 07:42 AM

ok, why is berry more important to this team than charles, hali and flowers?

Berry is one of the top 2 or 3 safeties in the game. In last year's playoff game he was the best player on the field.

Charles is great, Hali is great, Flowers is great. None of them have the impact on this team that Berry does. And all of them have backups that are pretty good as well, except Berry.

Losing Berry, for this team, is worse than losing anyone else, including Suck Assel.

Buckweath

09-13-2011, 09:16 AM

Berry is one of the top 2 or 3 safeties in the game. In last year's playoff game he was the best player on the field.

Charles is great, Hali is great, Flowers is great. None of them have the impact on this team that Berry does. And all of them have backups that are pretty good as well, except Berry.

Losing Berry, for this team, is worse than losing anyone else, including Suck Assel.

Berry is not a top 2-3 safety. It is true though that in last year's playoff game, he was playing at a Polamalu level.

Charles, Hali and Flowers all have a similar impact to Berry on this team and were arguably all better than Berry last year (this year I was expecting Berry to probably become just as good as those three).

Losing Berry I think will hurt this team a lot for the rushing defense and covering the TE as our backups are marginal. McGraw can have his good moments but overall he's a bad player.

IMO, the only way to make up for Berry's loss is that Tyson Jackson steps up hig game big time for the rush defense, Justin Houston provides plenty of pressure as he was doing in preseason and Kendrick Lewis who was good last year takes the next step and become at least an average safety in this league. Probably won'thappen.

PunkinDrublic

09-13-2011, 09:24 AM

It still pisses me off that this happened. I wish I wasn't so emotionally invested in this team.

Smed1065

09-13-2011, 09:24 AM

Hali is a fucking stud. Berry being better than him, and more important to this team doesn't mean Hali sucks. LMAO

Yes a rook makes or break. I like Berry but he has not been asked to trade positions, schemes. etc.

I agree he has heart but not the "heart" IMO.

I mean gifted through life versus surviving life.

You are right, no comparison.

Sorry Berry lovers, its a fact.

Ask Hamas.

Smed1065

09-13-2011, 09:25 AM

Berry is one of the top 2 or 3 safeties in the game. In last year's playoff game he was the best player on the field.

Charles is great, Hali is great, Flowers is great. None of them have the impact on this team that Berry does. And all of them have backups that are pretty good as well, except Berry.

Losing Berry, for this team, is worse than losing anyone else, including Suck Assel.