But where did your friends get them? You can't tell me these items just magically appeared in their front yards one day. Someone had to find them, bring them to market/public area, and then your friend had to acquire them.

Isn't he essentially picking still? I don't try to get steals. Infact later this week in meeting someone with a large clock collection. With me being a college student, I dont know what I'll be able to afford and not afford. I will pay a fair price, and you will probably see them for sale here. I'm not gonna bull ***** you. I'm new to the collecting scene but I'm no amateur at making money the hard way. I would say atleast half of the people on this site that I see post alot always criticize people. If you want to straighten this site out we need to start from the top down. Lead by example.

As a "Veteran Member," my member number is 57, I want to say to Thunder, that I agree with you 100%.

I have been picking since I was 24 (when I got out of the Army), 53 years ago. I started picking when I was in college. Picking is nothing but selling the things you don't want to keep. We have a house and a garage filled with keepers.

I have over 4000 posts here on OG, and not one of them is a request for "value."

As the author for four value guides I get at least two emails per day requesting values, my reply is the address where they can purchase my books.

I have made a lot of money using my knowledge, I have also spent a lot of money getting this knowledge, so it doesn't bother me to ask to be paid for my knowledge.

I joined almost 3 weeks before Jack & my #2033 [Jim Potts Stated oldgas & is #2031] Of the Regulars;*99.99% are here because it's a FREE site.*95+% joined because they had a question to ask.*95+% Enjoy Collecting.*25% Gladly enjoy sharing information.*10% want to know what something is worth, AFTER they bought it.*1% are members of other sites, but get more/faster answers here.*1% are here for FREE Value & FOR SALE Forums.*1% of irregulars will never learn to post their own pictures.*Less than 100 have GAVE ANYTHING back to OLDGAS!*Less than .05% after joining want to change how the site is run.*1/.014 think it's OK to suggest to others how to decorate.

I think Jim did a fantastic thing by moving questions concerning value to a separate forum. I'm old school and not too fond of the inquiries, so I haven't visited that forum once and have been very happy not having to look at them.

There has been more attention given to "pickers" lately primarily because that occupation has come into the general public's eye through the many reality TV shows. Some people dislike pickers and/or the picker shows just as others see the advantages to pickers or entertainment in the shows. What I do like is that oldgas remains a place for collectors to meet to discuss their opinions on this topic as well as others, such as the recent discussion about ending eBay auctions.

As oldgas' popularity and exposure naturally grows it will of course bring to the site some non petroliana collectors as well as a few "bad apples". Topics come and topics go, but having been on here for almost 5 years I can say that "in my opinion" it really isn't much different now than it was when I started. I enjoyed the site back then and I enjoy it just as much today. I do admit that I watch my words closely so I minimize the openings for those that enjoy finding (and harping on) fault with anything they can. Heck, I have those people at work, on other sites and even in my own family, but "keyboard courage" is a major problem on any site.

My standard response to any 'what's this worth' question is "Its worth what someone is willing to give and what you are willing to take to part with it".

If you're smart enough to be on the internet, meaning your IQ is at least room temperature or above, you should be able to do a little searching around and find what the item has been listed for or at least a similar item.

Or do the trial and error method...list something for $1000 and if it doesn't sell in a year you're probably too high. If you get 50 guys wanting to buy it within 24 hours you probably didn't ask enough.

I'm number 8647 woo!!! I am guilty of a value question and asking paint codes! I have also posted more than a random photo or two. I mostly keep to myself and try to absorb the knowledge on here as much as I can without posting. I do enjoy this site and hope to be able to give back to it one of these days.

Nice topic! I'm newer to this site and have learned a whole lot and wouldn't have 1/2 of my collection if it wasn't for oldgas and it's members. I don't like "pickers" trying to make a buck. If they were friends or collectors they wouldn't be asking the value. They'd be passing on the deal to other collectors or working out trades. I've learned from experience that those people will never be your friend or be someone who will help you or be honest ever. If you aren't into it cause it's what you love and are inspired about the history and beauty of an item than just leave it there for someone who cares. This hobby has lots of drama free honest individuals that will be there for you for anything. I mean it's hard to even find true friends that you've had for 20 years that you could ask to go pick up a load of pumps for ya and haul em home and unload em and store em for ya till you can retrieve em. On here there are those people. And not only just get em home and unload em..... Get em up check em out, clean em up, put on some missing pieces that they had laying around without even saying you're gonna owe me! There isn't people like that around anymore. Respect, honesty, loyalty, friendships, fun. That's what it's all about! If anyone needs a hand I'm always here to lend it. If you see something that you don't agree with or don't like just ignore it and it will go away. And the people who disrespect or only here to ask value or sell their stuff for a profit an know nothing will all go away. They never stay if you don't talk to em. And even if they do sell a couple of things and rub a few people wrong they will get bored of the site cause they aren't interested in the first place. So just let em come and let em go and have a good time on here with the true friends and collectors that make this hobby great! Thanks for listening and thanks to Jim for the site!

I view this place as one of the best places to be today on the entire web,for every single reason Thunder II listed.It is a melting pot of every walk of life,personality & character.It's good grass roots & very diverse,in both good & bad.Nearly every person here gleans what they have seen,heard or experienced in their time.Sure the people here are not always conformed,perfect,and sometimes not pretty or well mannered,but then neither are the people in the world today,and that's why this place is so authentic.It's not trying to be something it isn't,or make you believe it is...it's just right.

GUESS I WON'T ASK A VALUE QUESTION AGAIN OR POST MORE THAN ONE PICTURE. THOUGHT THAT WAS WHAT THE VALUE SECTION WAS FOR. SURE GLAD THAT THERE ARE RULES THAT WE SHOULD ALL FOLLOW THAT ARE SPELLED OUT. I DO NOT POST ANYMORE PICTURES OF RESTORED PUMPS ON HERE BECAUSE OF THE CRITICS THAT DO NOT LIKE THE WAY ITS DONE. THE ONLY POSTS THAT DO WELL OR GET ALOT OF RESPONSE ARE ONES LIKE THIS THAT CRITICIZE EITHER SOMEONE ELSE OR SOMETHING SOMEONE ASK. I PROBABLY SHOULD JUST GO AWAY LIKE THE REST OF THE PEOPLE I KNOW UP HERE IN THE NORTHWEST THAT ARE TIRED OF THE THINGS SAID ON HERE. THE SITE IS RUN WELL AND IS VERY HELPFUL, BUT THE PETTY THINGS JUST MAKE IT TOUGH. SERIOUS COLLECTORS TALK AMONGST THEMSELVES AND ASK VALUE QUESTION, WHAT ARE WE ON HERE? DOING IT THIRTY YEARS IN GAS AND OIL AND LEARNED ALOT MORE ON HERE THAN ANYWHERE ELSE.I AM SURE SOMEONE WILL BE OFFENDED BY THIS, BUT IT IS JUST WHAT IS HEARD WHEN COLLECTORS TALK ABOUT OLD GASUP HERE.

Isn't he essentially picking still? I don't try to get steals. Infact later this week in meeting someone with a large clock collection. With me being a college student, I dont know what I'll be able to afford and not afford. I will pay a fair price, and you will probably see them for sale here. I'm not gonna bull ***** you. I'm new to the collecting scene but I'm no amateur at making money the hard way. I would say atleast half of the people on this site that I see post alot always criticize people. If you want to straighten this site out we need to start from the top down. Lead by example.

lapicker~I think you need to be a little more thoughtful of your insinuations. Believe me I would like to say more to you on this because I personally find it offensive~ but I have thick skin and will lead by example and take the high road. Jim Potts is the top here and I believe him to be a great example of what a "COLLECTOR" should be. ThunderII, db,and Jack Sim are RIGHT on the money.Notchcad drives it home, so until you go away I will excercize the "block" feature till you do.

I remember when we had no inernet. So i'm just thankful with what we have now. I like the value section it's great see alot of stuff on there. It's just going to keep getting bigger so ya might as well climb on board or ya gonna miss the train.

I joined this site for the knowledge that all the "old timers" had on originality of signs.

I HATE the "ande rooney" fake ***** tin signs. They don't come close to looking like real sigs used back in the day. So I decided to collect original signs. When I bought my third sign, I got screwed over on a fake porcelain telephone sign. I was *****. That was when I learned that even porcelain signs were being faked as originals. I got on the internet and found this site.

This site is heaven sent. It has saved me countless headaches! I am sure others as well.

We all have to deal with the people who join this site, at shows and other places in order to find that item we wanted. (No mater what we want to do with it.) I admit I will get an object in order to sell it to fund what I really want. I do not run all over the place to do it though. If a great deal presents it's self to me, I will not pass it up in order to give someone else the ability to enjoy it. I have probably sold only 10 items ever. Due to down sizing, I will be forced to sell more of my collection in order to get a few choice items instead.

I ignore people who's only posts are: what is this sign worth, post only in the for sale section in order to only get a customer, as well as the smart asses. I have gone to shows and met a lot of nice people, seen outrageous prices as well as prices where people have picked and passed on the object and a good price off to me.

All in all, you just have to be able to weed out all the ***** in order to find what you are in this hobby for, or what your intentions are.

One of my favorite lines, from a bad movie...> "opinions vary!" Everyone one is allowed to have an opinion. I do not agree with picker haters, but they have their own opinion. Its when people slam others, when it goes bad. Some have just started "picking" to make a buck and that's cool. Some like myself have done it for 40 years. I was a rich kid till I was 3 yrs old. After my mom and dad split, we were dirt poor. I started working full time at the age of 12. When I worked in that junk yard sorting scrap metal. I would find things and sell them to make money to give to me mother. It got into my blood. It showed me that with a creative mind, you could make some extra cash. I have done it all my life, while having a full time career, traveling the world as a TV News Photojournalist. When that ended 3 yrs ago, because the economy took a dump, I decided to work for myself, take a risk and tell the corporate world to f-off. I moved back to my family farm. Took over a 60x60 building, bought a truck, trailer and a new Mac. I started advertising, researching, traveling the back roads, going to auctions and learning all I could. I starting selling to make a living, pay all the bills, without taking any of my unemployment. I met lots of cool people. Lots of collectors told me I have a good eye. I started a rolodex of collectors who wanted to buy my stuff. Some of the biggest collectors in the USA and Canada, love the idea that they have an extra eye, looking out for stuff they might want. I have been told this many times..." if a collector doesn't want a picker on their side, they are nuts!" Why did I bother writing this? I was bored! BUT, its the truth. Do I make money, yes! Do I love the hunt? Its the best part... taking old stuff and handing it over to collectors, so they can save it for another 100 years. Is it easy? NO WAY! I hate shipping days. In a nut shell, if you love what you do, you will never work a day in your life. I love what I do for 80 hours of more a week. As long as you love what you do and do it legally, thats ok with me. The people who know me and have bought from me, know I am 100% straight up and honest. So, thats what the "picker" title means to me. It's what I do. I love every minute of it. Bill

Good story Bill! That would def be a great job to have! My problem is I can't make myself sell anything! Glad you enjoy it and take the time to do your research and keep it professional! Keep it up and stay happy!

Great post Thunder II, appreciate the insight and thought you put into this.

I've only been collecting Gas & Oil since 2006. However, I've been into muscle cars since the mid 80's (high school days).

I observed the same happen in the muscle car scene. From a tight knit group of friends sharing a common interest and passion it devolved into a cut throat, disrespectful, highly competitive, envious and jealous bunch.

I think the root cause is two fold one is a deterioration of values, morals and ethics generally in today's society. The second being the economy and people looking for new sources of income. They are void of the passion of collecting and have no attachment to this hobby or the people in this hobby. They are driven by "net profit". When one is driven by profit (greed) they are blind to many things. Courtesy, etiquette, common sense, morals, ethics, and professionalism are not important to them.

What is really sad is that rather then be turned off by these individuals many simply choose to become like them. We should all stand our ground and see these times and individuals as examples of what we don't want to be and avoid becoming that. IT IS OUR ACTIONS, THAT DETERMINE WHO WE ARE. If we take ownership of who we are and stay true to what we know is right; We can turn this around. It is easier to become part of the decay, rather then stand our ground.

This is just a general observation on my part and not directed at anyone in particular. It is just food for thought and hopefully a cause for all of us to reflect on ourselves and worry less about everyone else!

I have never had a problem with pickers, especially as my dad was one and I started buying, selling and trading gas and oil items in Aug 1965......

What I do have a problem with, is the "want to be" pickers....

If one has to continuously drop the price on an item... They either don't know the value of the item(s) and or they don't know the "clientele" they are trying to sell to ......or both...

Too often here, I see both of these factors... I see too many "want to be" try to sell marginal items here and then these marginal are priced way too high and the price is continuously dropped....

Also, find a mentor... It DOES NOT HAVE TO BE ONE IN THE HOBBY... In fact most of the time... Those in the hobby have NO IDEA about value... They know what they would want to pay for an item, but they have no idea about the item's true value... If you are going to be a true picker, find an Appraiser that will work with you... Myself, I was lucky... My dad had worked with a few different appraisers for years and they "took me under their wing" for awhile....

I very rarely give values, for a couple of different reasons...

#1; is because I haven't kept up on most items... At one time, and I still have one that has not been updated in way too long, I kept a 3 ring binder full of results from auctions... Even now even though I don't keep up on it, I "subscribe" to 3-4 auction sites.... Among them Mathews, Worth-point, Live Auctioneers and a couple others that I get info on occasionally.

#2 is because most members, notably new members, don't want the value of an item(s)... They want to know what someone would pay for the item(s) in question.. When they get an actual value; too often they grumble, cry and throw a hissy fit that any self respecting 2 year old would give a 3 out of 10....

Also, I don't come to Old Gas and ask what something is worth. As I occasionally sell items on Old Gas, I want my potential customer base to realize that I have an idea of the worth of the items I am selling.... If one has to ask, "what is this worth" and then turns around and offers it For Sale on Old Gas it tells me they have no idea what they are doing!....

We are all adults here and as such, no can tell anyone what to do... What we can do is offer advise....

My advise to all "new" pickers: research, research, research... Know your "product" and just as importantly know those you are trying to sell too... This site is dedicated to the Collecting of Gas and Oil related items... The members here are educated in what to look for. They know for the most part what items are selling for (again different than value). They themselves have Collections.

So to bring before them; Marginal items, common items and "non-original" items. One is destroying their credibility as a knowledgeable seller of items..... Or at least that (these) is/are my opinion(s).

Opinions based on 50 years in this hobby... Some will read and reflect on what my opinions are, some will reject them off-hand with a "what does he know"? To those, do what you will... I wonder if you will have 4+ decades of Collecting, buying, selling and trading in the hobby or will you be driven away because you didn't understand and never could sell to those considered; "Hard-core Collectors?

I came to this website a couple years ago when I was in need of a Double Bubble Clock back can. I will be honest and say that I had no intention to keep checking back to this website. However I soon found how interesting the people and their stories were! I was hooked! All the knowledge that could be found on this website was amazing! I am guilty of asking the occasional value question. But many times this is only after hours of research showed nothing.

I have been around the antiques business all of my life. My grandfather was a dealer, my father is a dealer, so I was forced into it more less. I have ran my own business of buying and selling antiques (not just advertising) since I was at the age of 10. Now as a 19 year old college student, I have learned many things. 1. The most imporant thing I have learned. Respect the older folks in the business. Don't try and show them how much you think you know (or how much you really don't know). Just sit and listen to the stories they tell. Sort of like the old addage children are to be seen and not heard. Children being the new collectors or pickers. Even after being around this business all of my life and 9 years of it on my own, I still consider myself a child in the business2. Don't ask for favors and then give nothing back. People take note of this, and will not help you in the future.3. This hobby/business isn't just about making money. If you are in it just to make a buck and not enjoy meeting new people you will truly not enjoy it. The people are the reason I like the hobby and they also are the reason I continue to stay in business.

I don't post often, but I wanted to put my two cents in (two cent's is probably more than it's worth). This wasn't directed to anyone, just my observations.

I enjoy this website and think that it is the supreme gas and oil website on internet!

How do I put this not to upset anyone. But I think the hobby has changed. You can't hold on to the past thinking that its the present. I agree that values are a subject that has its issues. I asked for a value AND for some education on my item but instead got scolded. The younger collectors can just get their stuff directly anymore. My best friends dad was a picker and collected a pole barn of stuff. You CAN'T do that anymore! Not here near Chicago. You might end up with a bullet in your butt. Instead of complaining, man up and teach us. Don't let the history die because you need to sell your book. TEACH another generation the love of gas, cars, woman. Sorry still working on that last one. Do it with tact and style. I'm so interested in this subject but recently after seeing some of these posts have a bit of discuss in my gut. The value section is there for a reason, good or bad. Don't like it don't use it. However as I said my first question on this site was about value and EDUCATION of a product. Now I'm more interested in how to and stuff I have never seen before. Lets work together. If the older collectors don't take the time to educate the younger collectors then this hobby will be lost like so many other handed down traditions. Thanks

Thunder my boy....... that particular post was made before you and some other Oldgas members were involved in the "Hate Button" campaign against another Oldgasser a few years ago at Iowa Gas.To me that is one of the darkest events to ever happen in the hobby.As for the "bunch" I hang with now...... it's certainly better them than you.

As bppierce said about you in a recent thread."I have a total loss of respect."

When some of the new Collectors ask instead of demand... People will be more receptive to the new Collector...

Having knowledge is like owning a rare globe, pump, can, sign etc... Some (most) new Collectors haven't learned that simple fact.... Some do know the fact, and as you are doing, they complain that they haven't been given "the secret handshake". Just because one has decided they wanted to pick up a few Gas and Oil items, does it mean that one is automatically entitled to knowledge others have gathered...

Knowledge, as such, is precious. It is to be treasured and treated respectfully... I get the impression from what you type that you don't respect those that have the knowledge. I get the impression that you don't respect the hobby... You demand instead of ask, you tell us with knowledge that we MUST share and we must share on your terms, not our own....

When you have some knowledge, then you can set the terms in-which you dispense your knowledge... Until then... you can't dictate anything....

NO ONE gave us the knowledge we have... We worked for it... A good portion of us have been Collecting before the 'net, before the Guide Books, before the magazines, before "Old Gas" and "The Pit Stop". We were collecting BEFORE Peotone and Iowa Gas... We had to dig for information and knowledge... Most of us still dig, as "mining for information and knowledge is an important concept of the hobby to us... We don't demand that anyone give us their knowledge, we ask instead... We share and at times pool our knowledge... But we do it respectfully and with the idea that both/all parties will benefit from the sharing...

LKYSPADE, honestly I don't think you don't get it... The Experienced Collector DOES NOT HAVE TO ADAPT TO YOU, You have to adapt to him... The Experienced Collector has the knowledge and information that you NEED... It is NOT the other way around.... What do you have that the Experienced Collector does not already have? Do you have a better Collection? Most of the time.... No. Do you have the knowledge about the hobby? Again, most of the time... No.... So if you are disrespectful to the Experienced Collector why should they help you?

You even threw out this BS: "Do it with tact and style"... Nothing you typed had any tact and/or style... If you want respect? Treat others with respect...

Knowledge and this hobby is a "Two way Street", right now you are stuck at the end of a "Dead End Street" and you are out of gas....... But that is just my opinion.... Because of your attitude I have no problems not sharing... And as I beat that "dead horse again", I have 50 years in this hobby of knowledge and I am working to gain more each and every day...

I hope that Moderator's WILL NOT ever lock this thread.... I believe it is great that Collectors can give their differing points of view on the subject... And that is what each and every person is doing.... SO I hope that this thread will welcome those points of views... It can only make the hobby stronger, IMHO.......

Boy, do I feel sorry for Jim. He put together a great website and runs it with professionalism and passion for the hobby while showing respect for its members, yet still has to read negative comments about it on a weekly basis. Ironic as it is, it seems that most of the negative comments and posts come from members with over 3 years under their belt. And what are most of the negative comments about? Why the negativity and lack of respect on this site of course.

I would like to suggest that if you have a complaint to make about this site, or even support a complaint, then give a suggestion for a solution as well. I know Jim will listen, he always has. If you have no solution with the complaint, then, well, you’re just a complainer.

Bob Richards: I like your style of not only what you say, but how you say it.

Thunder my boy....... that particular post was made before you and some other Oldgas members were involved in the "Hate Button" campaign against another Oldgasser a few years ago at Iowa Gas.To me that is one of the darkest events to ever happen in the hobby.As for the "bunch" I hang with now...... it's certainly better them than you.

As bppierce said about you in a recent thread."I have a total loss of respect."

Bob. First of all, I'm NOT your boy.

Secondly, you have conviently failed to remember, that I asked your friend where he got his facts. It was your friends that started the hate campaign, the picture stealing, and the lies!!! The very hate & lies that you choose to perpetuate.

Thirdly, I'm not concerned about any respect from you and/or your friends. That would only mean that I value your opinion.

And lastly, If your group is better than this group, go play with them, and dont come back. Most of your contributions here are hateful anyways, such as this one.

BTW Bob. Thanks for continuing the lies, spreading the hate, and making this personal, yet again!

The younger collectors can just get their stuff directly anymore.My best friends dad was a picker and collected a pole barn of stuff.You CAN'T do that anymore! Not here near Chicago. You might end up with a bullet in your butt.

Sure you can,if you respect them & listen to them,and don't act entitled.Approach owners & their property with this and you won't wind up w/hot lead in your ###...even here in the windy city.Then they'll probably invite you back,and share their experiences & more items with you,and you know what you have then?..A new friend.

I have a question. Could one of you guys tell me what this bear is worth? I'm still not sure.....lol Really IMO its about where your heart is at. Same thing I tell the new apprentices- If your hearts not in it, dont waste my time. If you dont love this stuff and are only in it for what you can suck out of it for your own personal gain then your in the wrong place.

...chastising Jack, because he published several books and expects to get paid for his work, is like yelling at the chef at a restaurant because he won't feed you for free - someone had to work to gather all of that information, make sense of it all, and present it in a way to make it easy to understand...if it was easy, pickers would do it...

...regarding pickers: they're just prospectors...they're in it for the money, period...too many of them watching 'reality' TV, and looking for a fast buck...

...'if it wasn't for pickers, where would collectors get stuff?' we'd find it themselves, or get it from other collectors...

...anyone who asks for a free appraisal, should expect to get their money's worth...

Here are a couple things that happened last week. I helped a old man keep his 130 yr old historic hotel, by buying lots of stuff and listing his back bar on Ebay for 50k... check my ebay listings. I paid lots to a lady,that could not keep her son in the hospital without it. I have stories like this all the time. What does it all mean? Who knows, but its what I do and I am proud of it !! PS, LOVE THAT Bear! I am not convinced its homemade. Did lots of searching, still cant find it anywhere.

A majority of this bickering lately has been about and against the "pickers" ....the ones that only got interested in petro-collectibles when they found out about the major money that can be made from it's sale. They are ONLY in it for the money. If it wasn't for the money to be made....they would not spend two minutes on this site. They only come on here to do quick and lazy research to price their goods.

Long ago I posted that this site should ban the free appraisels....asking of values. I perceived that was not the intentions of this site. That went over like a lead balloon. Later the subject of a seperate catagory for these appraisels was brought up...I whole heartedly agreed that this was a good compromise so this escalating amount of value questions did not clutter the general discussion.

If free appraisels were banned...a lot of these perceived freeloaders would just go away, or not even register. They would have to put forth a little effort to research their asking prices themselves. That value section is becoming more of a problem all the time....and to me it is of little value to anyone who really cares about collectng. There are ample ways to value something these days..without a bunch of collectors (and pickers)disagreeing with each other....starting these bickering sessions.

If free appraisels were banned...a lot of these perceived freeloaders would just go away, or not even register. They would have to put forth a little effort to research their asking prices themselves. That value section is becoming more of a problem all the time....and to me it is of little value to anyone who really cares about collectng. There are ample ways to value something these days..without a bunch of collectors (and pickers)disagreeing with each other....starting these bickering sessions.

Jim

Instead of them moving on they would just load up the General section and ask the values there. It is what it is. I read the value only section only for the purpose to try and help the other moderators with it. There is really no reason that a person who dislikes the value section ever has to open it.

Remember when you could get an answer to your question? I don't see what's wrong with the value section. It's part of the education to be gained on this site. If someone found something and is not a collector but a picker or wanna be picker who cares. Give a value if you have one.Don't look at this section if you don't like it, or respond if you don't have a value or positive comment. The best way to learn is to ask questions. The best way to turn someone off is to make them feel like their questions are stupid and of no value. That won't help perpetuate the hobby. Not all know about the books and value guides. Maybe at the top of the value section a list of the value guides and books that are out there for those who want to try and educate themselves. I'm a sign guy but if I found a globe, pump or air meter the value section should be a logical place to go to ask a question. One or two request of value should not make you a book buyer. More than that, I think the books and guides are the next step in the education process.( I bought them all but still ask questions) Keep up the value section. Don't go there if you don't like it.

The main change that I have seen over the years esp since ebay is that your knowledge has become worthless. Collecting and dealing is a game of knowledge and memory. Now you can go online and get all of the information for free. I spent thousands on price guides and auction catalogs over the years. Also there used to be different levels of dealers. From the guy that bought things at garage sales and sold at local flea market to local ,regional and national dealers. There have always been pickers or every thing would hve been sent to the dump.

If free appraisels were banned...a lot of these perceived freeloaders would just go away, or not even register. They would have to put forth a little effort to research their asking prices themselves. That value section is becoming more of a problem all the time....and to me it is of little value to anyone who really cares about collectng. There are ample ways to value something these days..without a bunch of collectors (and pickers)disagreeing with each other....starting these bickering sessions.

Jim

Instead of them moving on they would just load up the General section and ask the values there.

And then moderators like you would remove their posting for rules violations!

The only times I posted a question on the values section was being curious what values would be posted on a particuliar item....not because I needed a value. I post my opinion of values if I know them at times....but I really don't know why???

Unless your next door neighbor is a collector of Gas and oil also, how else would you learn if its not in books, and maybe you don't know where to get them. People just start collecting stuff and it snowballs from there.

Thought that this was the place where you had friends and fellow collectors to help you. Where else can a guy from San Diego or from Maine help a guy in Canada or Texas.

Just get back to helping the other guy with your knowledge whether you are 50 years or 1 month into this hobby and past time. Show pictures and yes give suggestions.

Everything changes from the gas prices 50 years ago to bread and milk now. Try getting your doctor to make a visit or go to the dentist for under $100.00.

I'll go back to my old saying that I once told Mr. Potts. You can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time,but you can't please all of the people all of the time.

I myself have always tried to keep a positive attitude towards this site and the people on it. I have been tempted to get into a couple of ***** matches with people on this site, a couple of who have posted in this very thread, but I took the high road and didn't lower my personal standards and be a part of the public attacks that SO many of us get tired of reading on here, almost on a daily basis anymore. I am here to learn about my hobby, and I am here to offer any help or advice that I can on the things I DO know about to someone that may not. Take for instance the post by JimT on the Mobilfuel Diesel plate a short time back asking for a value. There were 3 or 4 values given for the plate before I chimed in and said I didn't think it was real. I must admit I was VERY reluctant to post my thoughts as I've been in the hobby for only 5 years, but I was certain it was a repro so I posted my thoughts with my disclaimer that I wasn't an "expert", which is kind of sad. I was glad I was able to help Jim out and at the same time I think that thread, while posted in the much debated value section, turned into an extremely educational post on Mobilfuel plates. That is a reason to take full advantage of all this site has to offer, as helpful information can be found in all different forums. At 35 years of age I know I will not have the full feelilng for what the glory days of collecting Petroliana were like 25+ years ago. I will try to do my part to keep this hobby viable by keeping my outlook positive, ignoring certain members comments, and to help others when I can with the knowledge I have gained in my few years in the hobby.Darin

Darin well said. Bob this was my point. Your responce sums up the attutide issues that have become very apparent. Please re-read what I wrote. I never Demanded anything. I asked for help! There is an old saying in my family. If you come across a pile of poop and don't want to smell it then just leave it alone. I'm done. Thanks for confirming what I said.

BTW, I wish I entered this hobby when I was 35 & not 50 (I Am 57 now). It is good to have new generation of collectors such as Darin that try to learn the hobby & hopefully be a resource for future generation ...

I would like to emphasize the 3 bullets outlined by bwfergus on Page 4. Well said Brandon, Thank you!

I had just remarried for the third time to Cindy, I knew I was broke, (just two years before my business was under 11' of water), but Cindy was also broke. I wasn't even working, and thank God she did have a decent occupation.

At age 53 I could not find any work, nobody wanted guys my age, even thought I had a college education.

I had messed with a few gas pump at the time, and I found out Cindy had a great deal of knowledge of dolls, antique jewlry, furniture, ceramics, glassware. My knowledge was mostly in antique cars. Even back in the 1960s I was selling at many of the swap meets here in the mid-west.

I told Cindy I was going to get very into the petro hobby, but I told her one thing, DON'T FALL IN LOVE WITH ANYTHING WE BUY.

We still do this even today. That doesn't mean that I didn't still collect things. At one time I had a collection of over 600 different handy oilers. I still have a collection of over 3000, pre 1980 VW menorbilia.

As I mentioned above we were broke, but I found a way to make money, have some great collections, but if someone would pay us the money we asked for something, we would sell it. I didn't mind selling some rare items, as I felt I was good enough to find another one if I really wanted to have one, but mostly I found something else that interested me more than the one I sold.

I want to make a comment on values. As I mentioned above, I have never asked, even once, what is this worth, on this website. I addmit I have asked some collectors what something was worth just to increase my knowledge. I remember about three years ago at Iowa Gas walking out in the moonlight with DB looking at all the stuff on the ground. What I noticed was this was the year of the Stationlighter as they were all over the place, so I started asking DB what they were worth. I didn't have any of them, I just wanted to pick his brain.

One more things about values, as I have mentioned above I get requests all the time, and I refuse to answer them. Also I have mentioned I just tell them to buy my books, if that is what the question is about. The reason for this is, if I cannot see the item (and pictures won't help) I cannot give an accurate value on anything. In order to value anything I feel I need to have it in my hands to see its condition.

A quick story: When asked a value I usually tell tell the asker, just put it on Ebay for ($9.99) and the world will tell you what it is worth. Example of this: As you all know I deal in old paper, I have 41 file drawers full. I also purchase magazines on Ebay, carefully take them apart and sell the ads. One day two mags came in the mail, I was packing for a family reunin in Gulf Shores, but I took the time to look through the mags. I spotted an ad, shouted to Cindy, come and look at this. She didn't understand why I was so excited, I told her this was a Maxfield Parrish Mazda bulb ad. Now, years before buying paper I learned who Maxfield Parrish was, he was one of the most famous illustrators from around 1910 to 1940. If you have ever heard of the "Winken, Blinken and Nod", well he was the illustrator.I didn't go asking for values, I just put it on Ebay for $9.99. Two days later I called Cindy and asked how the ad was going, she said it was up to $65.00, the day before I got home the ad closed at $225.00. $225.00 for a stinken one page piece of paper, cut out of a $20.00 magazine.Why did I make this kind of money, KNOWLEDGE, KNOWLEDGE, KNOWLEDGE. The knowledge came from value books that we had purchased. While I had no knowledge of what each illustration Parrish had drawn was, I just knew that his work was worth money.

Cindy knows old furniture. We were at a farm auction last June when a 155 year old moghogany rope bed were up for sale. Nobody wanted it and we were able to purchase it for $200.00, again because of our knowledge. Didn't sell it, Cindy said we were keeping this one.

Some of you call yourselves pickers, but if you have to go to the web or someone to ask "what is this worth" before you buy it, you are not a picker, you are just an opportunist. A picker needs to be able to make a decision fast, and without the knowledge being in your head, you are going to miss out on more things that you could have maybe made a fortune on.

...Lots of talk about values on here. I have changed how I do research. Here is 1 of 4 pages that I took with me to the Ohio auction last Sunday. Its a combo of values from, EBAY, MATTHEWS, MORPHY, LIVE AUCTIONEER AND PROXY BID. On the page is, the name of the sign, and different values I found, the last thing is what it sold for at the auction.( I keep the papers for future reference). 2 years ago, when I started doing this fulltime, I did not know about these auction/research sites. I learned about all these sites from oldgas. Old timers told me about them, so I started using them. The new collector sitting beside me at that auction said through out the day..." that piece of paper is right on". I said, " well thats what the item sold for within the last year." In a nut shell. A new guy (me) came here a year ago. Asked lots of questions and found some great info/research sites. Thanks !! ... also... in 1981 when I start shooting and editing in the TV News industry. We shot and edited on film. It then changed to video tape, then changed to digital. OMG, us oldtimers hated how the biz was changing. You know what? None of us oldtimers would go back to the way things used to be. All things change, change with it! Its usually for the better. Just my thoughts.

My wife and I are lifetime non-smokers. For many years in the past, when a restaurant was very busy and ad separate smoking and non-smoking areas, we would ask for first available in either section. We assumed that when we were seated in a smoking section that we gave up our right to complaint about the other people who smoked.

This is the same principle here. we made a separate value questions section. When someone chooses to go into that section, he should assume he gives up his right to complain about those who ask for values there. Don't like the questions, stay out of that forum. If certain members irritate you, please ignore their topics or click the "Ignore" feature in their Profile.

It is a changing world. Recently Encyclopedia Britannica announced they were no longer printing books. Only one petroliana price guide has been printed in recent years. More people every day are expecting the Internet to be their instant knowledge source. The trend is not going back to the old days, it is changing and we can't stop it.

I was maken a sandwich yesterday and got to thinken it would be fun to take the last years post's and add up all the smart @## comments rude comments,disparaging comments,comments from non moderators telling people they are doing something wrong, comments from people selling things on here complaining about people calling them, comments bragging about how long they have been doing this, comments about collecting plastic GAS signs, comments about high prices, comments on people trying to get pricing so they dont get laughed at because their price was to high. Then take all these and compair it to the years they have been collecting. I think you will see what is really damaging this site. There are a bunch of nice people on here and I think most of them are the newer or mid range collectors. Heck maybe it's age related. I tried to only get the good off this site but darn it, it got to me. I'll check back in a week or so. I got to go out and get some eggs so I can have me some eggs and maybe some potatoes. I wanted to mix in some fried Spam but gimpy Jarred ate it all yesterday.

As an old retired teacher I aleays thought it was my "job" to help anyone with my time or knowledge that needed help. If asked, it kind of makes me feel good to help. If I don't know the answer I admit it and try to find the answer. If I need help and folks don't want to offer any - so be it. If there a discussion I don't feel good about - ignore it. Collecting petroleum "stuff" is either a hobby or a business or a combination of both. Recognize that and move on. Reduces blood pressure, reduces number of unhappy folks and keeps you smiling. I have little knowledge about this hobby and not much cash to invest so I lurk in the backgrtound and learn from folks on this site who are skilled and knowledgeable. Sounds like one hell of a good deal to me. Keep smiling - Dud

Tis true guys, plastic signs not too long ago were of no or very little value. I've only been in this hobby for a short 30 years so what the hay do I know. I now find it a mite ridiclous that people value them as high as they are.And another thing 30 yrs ago gas pumps and signs were very cheap and a lot of them were free. The money came on board when the antique stores picked up on the stuff. This is my observation and I'm sure there will be other opinions. HAGD

My member number on here is 156, all that means is I have survived the changes of time. Time moves on, and changes always occur, you accept the change or get run over by it. Lesson I learned a long time ago. Doesn’t mean I like it.At work my employee number is 75*** and the guy I am training is 892***. Does that mean I know it all, No. (but he thinks I do, so don’t tell him any different…. )

In essence time has not changed much on this site. I remember when fighting and bickering got so bad, they started “the other petrol site”.Now people with two different sets of ideals have a place they can both go and be happy.

I do wish we could re-do our COTM features. Many pictures and references are gone now. I had forgotten until just this morning, eggs, potatoes and Spam are feel good food. Don’t tell my doctor.I miss the posting of old rare items we have found. It was about sharing and information exchange, nothing more. I love the “Great Old Pics” post, but must admit my toes curl a bit when one of my old postings from years ago reappears. So now I am making my own wine. Keep posting.

Remember 10 years ago when you were asking what stuff from Now should I save…. Those worthless plastic signs and composite cans you tossed…. OOPS!!!

I thought long and hard before I decided to make this post.The whole thread seems to be about pickers and flippers.I'm going to relate experience.not theory as it relates to building a collection enjoying the hobby.

First of all,I have no peoblem with pickers and/or businessmen who buy out whole collections at a wholesale price and part it out at retail.That is how business works.I've got stuff on display from sea-to-sea and border -to border.I wouldn't have that stuff here in NM if it was not for pickers/businessmen.

My main point in this post is to make what I think is an important distinction;the difference between a picker and flipper who operates in a more or less ethical manner and someone who is only looking for someone to "pluck and,you know,it rhymes with a bird that quacks".It fills me with disgust when I hear"Ireally ripped that guy"and "I found a guy who doesen't know what he is doing",and then brag about it.

I've watched that sort of thing drive newcomers who were made fun of from the hobby.On the other hand,I've also watched collectors wait for something to come up from someone who really didn't know what they had.

BTW,I have paid people more that their asking price.AS we say,to eac his own.To me,a persons pride and feelings are more important than a few bucks.

Remember when we had good discussions on this sight and not this Bull $h!t every day!!!! Some on here are worse than a bunch of 14 year old girls!! If ya don't have anything good to say or Petro related stuff don't start stupid threads like this!! Nuff Said...........................

Im with Hillside on this. Whatever he meant.But seriously, I understand Jim's point about not having to look at the value forum, and I rarely do. However, the whole "flipping" attitude has seemed to take over the site. There are a lot more "members" now but many just ask the value of something. I miss new members asking questions about the history or the pump they just got, or should they strip the guts or not, or the paint code. I miss the guys who scored something cool and were excited to post it here. Basically, this was a collectors site, and now there is an influx of flippers who know little and contribute even less. I still enjoy the site and appreciate Jim's efforts, but I come here less often now.

I disagree. I think this thread should never be locked,ever.When you have members from across the country with very different times in the hobby for very different reasons expressing honest opinions and thoughts,to me it is imperative that they be presented to the forum for consideration.Agree or disagree,but at least listen when that many cumulative years of experience is talking.

BTW Ryan,that's not the first time you told a member to leave if they don't like the way things are going.I think that is sad.

BTW Ryan,that's not the first time you told a member to leave if they don't like the way things are going.I think that is sad.

For the record. I never said that I thought he should leave. Go a couple posts above this and read it again.

Twisting words around that I did not type to fit your agenda is what is really sad.

I Stated a fact.. for something that he is complaining about so harshly, he sure does participate and awful lot.

Here is the straight scoop. If you dont like fast food, then go to McDonalds and get a cheeseburger, you have no business complaining to the management that it is fast food.

Its quite simple. If you dont like the value section, DONT READ IT! Nobody is forcing anybody to read anything. If you dont like the For Sale section... DONT READ IT! End of story, its that simple folks!

I dont understand why so many of you have such a problem with this.

Some of you want to argue and complain because you have nothing better to do. I stated the facts, as harsh as they are.

A majority of this bickering lately has been about and against the "pickers" ....the ones that only got interested in petro-collectibles when they found out about the major money that can be made from it's sale. They are ONLY in it for the money. If it wasn't for the money to be made....they would not spend two minutes on this site. They only come on here to do quick and lazy research to price their goods.

Long ago I posted that this site should ban the free appraisels....asking of values. I perceived that was not the intentions of this site. That went over like a lead balloon. Later the subject of a seperate catagory for these appraisels was brought up...I whole heartedly agreed that this was a good compromise so this escalating amount of value questions did not clutter the general discussion.

If free appraisels were banned...a lot of these perceived freeloaders would just go away, or not even register. They would have to put forth a little effort to research their asking prices themselves. That value section is becoming more of a problem all the time....and to me it is of little value to anyone who really cares about collectng. There are ample ways to value something these days..without a bunch of collectors (and pickers)disagreeing with each other....starting these bickering sessions.

Jim

You hit the nail on the head.....the real Pickers do not need this site for values it's the pokers that need it.

Here's an interesting read. I lifted it from the home page (hope Jim don't mind.) "Primarily Petroliana is a community bringing gas station antique collectors, dealers, publishers and service providers together for the benefit of all." I would say a "picker" is a service provider. I apologize for my remarks to LApicker, I just didn't like the way he said some things. But anyways till they change the moto of the site... Can't we all just get along?Garage~a~GoGo

Here's an interesting read. I lifted it from the home page (hope Jim don't mind.) "Primarily Petroliana is a community bringing gas station antique collectors, dealers, publishers and service providers together for the benefit of all." I would say a "picker" is a service provider. I apologize for my remarks to LApicker, I just didn't like the way he said some things. But anyways till they change the moto of the site... Can't we all just get along?Garage~a~GoGo

Well Put!!! Now close this thread and lets start discussing something good.