MISTER AGGRESSIVE IS BACK. Nice to see the tone has changed quite a bit. The reason for me being aggressive by the way is i was tired of seeing my countryman being piled on. There were alot of factors for him having a slow start and i know how it is on the internet with all the keyboard drivers loving to kick somebody when their down. Lance, being 18, has done a great job of of keeping his cool during what i am sure was a very difficult time. Williams must also take some of the blame for his slow start. They have admitted that they made a breakthrough on his setup that has made him much more comfortable. People tend to forget that there is more to driving an F1 car than just jumping into the drivers seat. For those of you that think that williams is better than red bull or force india, it's not. Paddy is making strides in getting the right tools in place and i think later in the season they will be up there with red bull.

Pace wise the car is up with the Red Bull already.

Stroll is rightly criticised when he is poor and praised when he does well.

MISTER AGGRESSIVE IS BACK. Nice to see the tone has changed quite a bit. The reason for me being aggressive by the way is i was tired of seeing my countryman being piled on. There were alot of factors for him having a slow start and i know how it is on the internet with all the keyboard drivers loving to kick somebody when their down. Lance, being 18, has done a great job of of keeping his cool during what i am sure was a very difficult time. Williams must also take some of the blame for his slow start. They have admitted that they made a breakthrough on his setup that has made him much more comfortable. People tend to forget that there is more to driving an F1 car than just jumping into the drivers seat. For those of you that think that williams is better than red bull or force india, it's not. Paddy is making strides in getting the right tools in place and i think later in the season they will be up there with red bull.

Pace wise the car is up with the Red Bull already.

Stroll is rightly criticised when he is poor and praised when he does well.

Honestly I don't think it is. Red Bull were hassling Ferrari this weekend

MISTER AGGRESSIVE IS BACK. Nice to see the tone has changed quite a bit. The reason for me being aggressive by the way is i was tired of seeing my countryman being piled on. There were alot of factors for him having a slow start and i know how it is on the internet with all the keyboard drivers loving to kick somebody when their down. Lance, being 18, has done a great job of of keeping his cool during what i am sure was a very difficult time. Williams must also take some of the blame for his slow start. They have admitted that they made a breakthrough on his setup that has made him much more comfortable. People tend to forget that there is more to driving an F1 car than just jumping into the drivers seat. For those of you that think that williams is better than red bull or force india, it's not. Paddy is making strides in getting the right tools in place and i think later in the season they will be up there with red bull.

Pace wise the car is up with the Red Bull already.

Stroll is rightly criticised when he is poor and praised when he does well.

Honestly I don't think it is. Red Bull were hassling Ferrari this weekend

This was Red Bulls best track so far though. Don't forget to factor in Red Bulls superior drivers as well. Put the Red Bull drivers in a Williams and they would probably have almost as many points.

MISTER AGGRESSIVE IS BACK. Nice to see the tone has changed quite a bit. The reason for me being aggressive by the way is i was tired of seeing my countryman being piled on. There were alot of factors for him having a slow start and i know how it is on the internet with all the keyboard drivers loving to kick somebody when their down. Lance, being 18, has done a great job of of keeping his cool during what i am sure was a very difficult time. Williams must also take some of the blame for his slow start. They have admitted that they made a breakthrough on his setup that has made him much more comfortable. People tend to forget that there is more to driving an F1 car than just jumping into the drivers seat. For those of you that think that williams is better than red bull or force india, it's not. Paddy is making strides in getting the right tools in place and i think later in the season they will be up there with red bull.

Pace wise the car is up with the Red Bull already.

Stroll is rightly criticised when he is poor and praised when he does well.

Honestly I don't think it is. Red Bull were hassling Ferrari this weekend

They weren't really though, were they? Did either Max or Dan at any point exhibit the kind of race pace Vettel was capable of?

MISTER AGGRESSIVE IS BACK. Nice to see the tone has changed quite a bit. The reason for me being aggressive by the way is i was tired of seeing my countryman being piled on. There were alot of factors for him having a slow start and i know how it is on the internet with all the keyboard drivers loving to kick somebody when their down. Lance, being 18, has done a great job of of keeping his cool during what i am sure was a very difficult time. Williams must also take some of the blame for his slow start. They have admitted that they made a breakthrough on his setup that has made him much more comfortable. People tend to forget that there is more to driving an F1 car than just jumping into the drivers seat. For those of you that think that williams is better than red bull or force india, it's not. Paddy is making strides in getting the right tools in place and i think later in the season they will be up there with red bull.

Pace wise the car is up with the Red Bull already.

Stroll is rightly criticised when he is poor and praised when he does well.

Honestly I don't think it is. Red Bull were hassling Ferrari this weekend

They weren't really though, were they? Did either Max or Dan at any point exhibit the kind of race pace Vettel was capable of?

Max was threatening them in qualy at least. When could that ever be said about Williams this year?

MISTER AGGRESSIVE IS BACK. Nice to see the tone has changed quite a bit. The reason for me being aggressive by the way is i was tired of seeing my countryman being piled on. There were alot of factors for him having a slow start and i know how it is on the internet with all the keyboard drivers loving to kick somebody when their down. Lance, being 18, has done a great job of of keeping his cool during what i am sure was a very difficult time. Williams must also take some of the blame for his slow start. They have admitted that they made a breakthrough on his setup that has made him much more comfortable. People tend to forget that there is more to driving an F1 car than just jumping into the drivers seat. For those of you that think that williams is better than red bull or force india, it's not. Paddy is making strides in getting the right tools in place and i think later in the season they will be up there with red bull.

Pace wise the car is up with the Red Bull already.

Stroll is rightly criticised when he is poor and praised when he does well.

Honestly I don't think it is. Red Bull were hassling Ferrari this weekend

This was Red Bulls best track so far though. Don't forget to factor in Red Bulls superior drivers as well. Put the Red Bull drivers in a Williams and they would probably have almost as many points.

Red Bull do have superior drivers but if the Williams was on a par with the Red Bull I would expect Massa to get close to them more than that one qualy in Russia. The gaps in Q3 do be anywhere from 0.5 to 1 second

MISTER AGGRESSIVE IS BACK. Nice to see the tone has changed quite a bit. The reason for me being aggressive by the way is i was tired of seeing my countryman being piled on. There were alot of factors for him having a slow start and i know how it is on the internet with all the keyboard drivers loving to kick somebody when their down. Lance, being 18, has done a great job of of keeping his cool during what i am sure was a very difficult time. Williams must also take some of the blame for his slow start. They have admitted that they made a breakthrough on his setup that has made him much more comfortable. People tend to forget that there is more to driving an F1 car than just jumping into the drivers seat. For those of you that think that williams is better than red bull or force india, it's not. Paddy is making strides in getting the right tools in place and i think later in the season they will be up there with red bull.

Please, there is no need to take this position.

As a fellow Canadian I am thus biased and want my fellow countryman do well. It was a very emotional moment for me to see the Canadian flag fly once again on the podium. That being said, if he is revealed as a bag of manure, no amount of posts can change that. IMO just let him prove himself on track.

I can think of many drivers who showed up in Formula One with bags of money then proved that they had talent. Senna was born to wealth. Fittipaldi too. Yes, Stroll's father provided a lot of money to ensure his son got to this position. But after a VERY dismal start to the season, he has steadily improved, and although massive luck played it's part in Baku, he deserved to finish where he did.

Money got him into Formula One, and he is now in the position that he must prove he belongs there. And his recent performance in Baku does indicate he may be a legitimate Formula One driver.

Sorry but williams are not in red bulls league. They couldn't compete with red bull last year with bottas on their team. Right now they are lucky if they can beat force india. Paddy is working hard to make them into a top team again and i think they will be in much better shape near the end of the year. Hello to mds.

Sorry but williams are not in red bulls league. They couldn't compete with red bull last year with bottas on their team. Right now they are lucky if they can beat force india. Paddy is working hard to make them into a top team again and i think they will be in much better shape near the end of the year. Hello to mds.

Sorry but williams are not in red bulls league. They couldn't compete with red bull last year with bottas on their team. Right now they are lucky if they can beat force india. Paddy is working hard to make them into a top team again and i think they will be in much better shape near the end of the year. Hello to mds.

Car speed wise they very much are.

You need evidence to back that claim up. They have a better car than Force India, I'll agree to that much. But Red Bull is very much on its own tier in 3rd place

Sorry but williams are not in red bulls league. They couldn't compete with red bull last year with bottas on their team. Right now they are lucky if they can beat force india. Paddy is working hard to make them into a top team again and i think they will be in much better shape near the end of the year. Hello to mds.

Car speed wise they very much are.

You need evidence to back that claim up. They have a better car than Force India, I'll agree to that much. But Red Bull is very much on its own tier in 3rd place

I think it's close. Just looking at the pace of the cars. I could easily believe Verstappen and Ricciardo have 4-6 tenths over Massa. That would put Williams challenging Red Bull in most places. It would certainly mean if you swapped the Red Bull and Williams drivers the Williams would more often that not be ahead as obviously that would be 0.4-06 taken for Red Bull and added to Williams so around a 1 second swing.

Anyone else think that everyone is being super nice to Lance because of his billionaire daddy? His dad just strolls (PNI) around like he owns the place.

I can't help but feel that his dad needs to take a page from the Verstappens. Dad needs to stop lurking over him and let him become his own man.

My opinion, anyway.

I could be wrong, but Jos Verstappen never provided millions in sponsorship. I think that buys Stroll senior the right to check on his investment.

I don't know why you would assume any connection between how people treat Lance and his father's wealth. Many were slating him not so long ago and I'm pretty sure Dad didn't become a billionaire overnight. The fact that Stroll appears to have turned things around after a less than auspicious start probably has a lot more to do with it than his father's personal situation

Anyone else think that everyone is being super nice to Lance because of his billionaire daddy? His dad just strolls (PNI) around like he owns the place.

I can't help but feel that his dad needs to take a page from the Verstappens. Dad needs to stop lurking over him and let him become his own man.

My opinion, anyway.

I could be wrong, but Jos Verstappen never provided millions in sponsorship. I think that buys Stroll senior the right to check on his investment.

I don't know why you would assume any connection between how people treat Lance and his father's wealth. Many were slating him not so long ago and I'm pretty sure Dad didn't become a billionaire overnight. The fact that Stroll appears to have turned things around after a less than auspicious start probably has a lot more to do with it than his father's personal situation

This, and I think it helps that Stroll jr seems like a reasonable, decent sort of a chap. Doesn't seem to be a huge air of entitlement about him.

At this point I'd like to point out that last year there was a lot of discussion on this forum about his perceived advantages he had in the junior series, and how he shouldn't be in F1, and all that, and I was actually one of those that spoke in favor of his junior career and the talent he'd shown up until then.

Sorry but williams are not in red bulls league. They couldn't compete with red bull last year with bottas on their team. Right now they are lucky if they can beat force india. Paddy is working hard to make them into a top team again and i think they will be in much better shape near the end of the year. Hello to mds.

Car speed wise they very much are.

You need evidence to back that claim up. They have a better car than Force India, I'll agree to that much. But Red Bull is very much on its own tier in 3rd place

I think it's close. Just looking at the pace of the cars. I could easily believe Verstappen and Ricciardo have 4-6 tenths over Massa. That would put Williams challenging Red Bull in most places. It would certainly mean if you swapped the Red Bull and Williams drivers the Williams would more often that not be ahead as obviously that would be 0.4-06 taken for Red Bull and added to Williams so around a 1 second swing.

Huh? That's not how it works at all. The way you've described it is that both cars are equal at, say, base 0.0. And Dan/Max are driving at 0.4-0.6 faster than their car can go while Massa is driving 0.4-0.6 slower than his car can go, creating a 1.0 gap

That's just not true. In reality, if the cars were equal and Dan/Max are driving 0.4-0.6 faster than Massa then their laptimes would be 0.4-0.6 faster than Massa. Then if you swap them into the (supposedly equal) Williams, they'll still just be 0.4-0.6 ahead of Massa driving the Red Bull

Anyway I'm no fan of Felipe Massa and I believe Red Bull have the best line-up on the grid. But there's no evidence as of yet to back up the claim that their cars are equal

Sorry but williams are not in red bulls league. They couldn't compete with red bull last year with bottas on their team. Right now they are lucky if they can beat force india. Paddy is working hard to make them into a top team again and i think they will be in much better shape near the end of the year. Hello to mds.

Car speed wise they very much are.

You need evidence to back that claim up. They have a better car than Force India, I'll agree to that much. But Red Bull is very much on its own tier in 3rd place

I think it's close. Just looking at the pace of the cars. I could easily believe Verstappen and Ricciardo have 4-6 tenths over Massa. That would put Williams challenging Red Bull in most places. It would certainly mean if you swapped the Red Bull and Williams drivers the Williams would more often that not be ahead as obviously that would be 0.4-06 taken for Red Bull and added to Williams so around a 1 second swing.

Huh? That's not how it works at all. The way you've described it is that both cars are equal at, say, base 0.0. And Dan/Max are driving at 0.4-0.6 faster than their car can go while Massa is driving 0.4-0.6 slower than his car can go, creating a 1.0 gap

That's just not true. In reality, if the cars were equal and Dan/Max are driving 0.4-0.6 faster than Massa then their laptimes would be 0.4-0.6 faster than Massa. Then if you swap them into the (supposedly equal) Williams, they'll still just be 0.4-0.6 ahead of Massa driving the Red Bull

Anyway I'm no fan of Felipe Massa and I believe Red Bull have the best line-up on the grid. But there's no evidence as of yet to back up the claim that their cars are equal

Sorry, I appreciate I confused the issue by making 2 points. I think the gap between Massa and the Red Bull drivers us roughly around 0.4-0.6 so when I see him qualify half a second behind the Red Bulls it makes me think the car was equal.

My second point is if you swapped the drivers the Williams would appear to be the faster car as the swing in driver ability would be worth around 1 second.

Anyone else think that everyone is being super nice to Lance because of his billionaire daddy? His dad just strolls (PNI) around like he owns the place.

I can't help but feel that his dad needs to take a page from the Verstappens. Dad needs to stop lurking over him and let him become his own man.

My opinion, anyway.

Absolutely ridiculous post, adds no value to discussion!

Care to elaborate?

Zoue wrote:

Multi69 wrote:

Anyone else think that everyone is being super nice to Lance because of his billionaire daddy? His dad just strolls (PNI) around like he owns the place.

I can't help but feel that his dad needs to take a page from the Verstappens. Dad needs to stop lurking over him and let him become his own man.

My opinion, anyway.

I could be wrong, but Jos Verstappen never provided millions in sponsorship. I think that buys Stroll senior the right to check on his investment.

I don't know why you would assume any connection between how people treat Lance and his father's wealth. Many were slating him not so long ago and I'm pretty sure Dad didn't become a billionaire overnight. The fact that Stroll appears to have turned things around after a less than auspicious start probably has a lot more to do with it than his father's personal situation

Do you think Lance's dad being shown on the FOM feed all the time is helping Lance's cause then, whether positive or negative results? I mean we all know about his dad's personal situation and the haters will only use this as ammunition ("daddy's boy") to further bash Lance when he has a bad day?

Not a jab at Stroll in his thread, but it seems the most fitting place for it. Paddy Lowe thinks Massa would have won the race without his damper issue. Says he had the pace to beat the Red Bull. Such a shame, it would have been great to see Massa get one last win or Stroll get the most unlikely win in the sports history. The Williams drivers had 6-7 cars fall out in front of them, just needed 1 more.

Not a jab at Stroll in his thread, but it seems the most fitting place for it. Paddy Lowe thinks Massa would have won the race without his damper issue. Says he had the pace to beat the Red Bull. Such a shame, it would have been great to see Massa get one last win or Stroll get the most unlikely win in the sports history. The Williams drivers had 6-7 cars fall out in front of them, just needed 1 more.

Not a jab at Stroll in his thread, but it seems the most fitting place for it. Paddy Lowe thinks Massa would have won the race without his damper issue. Says he had the pace to beat the Red Bull. Such a shame, it would have been great to see Massa get one last win or Stroll get the most unlikely win in the sports history. The Williams drivers had 6-7 cars fall out in front of them, just needed 1 more.

Just the same way Alonso said he could have won the race.

I wouldn't say so, Massa was 3rd behind Vettel and Hamilton when he had his failure and Hamilton already had his headrest issue and Vettel was already destined for his penalty. He would have likely been the leader of the race 9 laps after his issue.

Alonso never ran higher than 6th all day, despite have 8-9 cars retire or have major issues in front of him.

Its amazing how many drivers could have won the race though....

Vettel, Bottas both lost themselves this race with errors.

Hamilton, Verstappen, Raikkonen, Massa all lost it due to mechanical issues or bad luck.

Not a jab at Stroll in his thread, but it seems the most fitting place for it. Paddy Lowe thinks Massa would have won the race without his damper issue. Says he had the pace to beat the Red Bull. Such a shame, it would have been great to see Massa get one last win or Stroll get the most unlikely win in the sports history. The Williams drivers had 6-7 cars fall out in front of them, just needed 1 more.

Just the same way Alonso said he could have won the race.

I wouldn't say so, Massa was 3rd behind Vettel and Hamilton when he had his failure and Hamilton already had his headrest issue and Vettel was already destined for his penalty. He would have likely been the leader of the race 9 laps after his issue.

Alonso never ran higher than 6th all day, despite have 8-9 cars retire or have major issues in front of him.

Its amazing how many drivers could have won the race though....

Vettel, Bottas both lost themselves this race with errors.

Hamilton, Verstappen, Raikkonen, Massa all lost it due to mechanical issues or bad luck.

I'm sure Force India will say Perez could have won the race if you asked them as well!

Not a jab at Stroll in his thread, but it seems the most fitting place for it. Paddy Lowe thinks Massa would have won the race without his damper issue. Says he had the pace to beat the Red Bull. Such a shame, it would have been great to see Massa get one last win or Stroll get the most unlikely win in the sports history. The Williams drivers had 6-7 cars fall out in front of them, just needed 1 more.

Just the same way Alonso said he could have won the race.

I wouldn't say so, Massa was 3rd behind Vettel and Hamilton when he had his failure and Hamilton already had his headrest issue and Vettel was already destined for his penalty. He would have likely been the leader of the race 9 laps after his issue.

Alonso never ran higher than 6th all day, despite have 8-9 cars retire or have major issues in front of him.

Its amazing how many drivers could have won the race though....

Vettel, Bottas both lost themselves this race with errors.

Hamilton, Verstappen, Raikkonen, Massa all lost it due to mechanical issues or bad luck.

I'm sure Force India will say Perez could have won the race if you asked them as well!

I'm pretty sure Alonso meant he would have won with a decent car, not that he could have actually won the race as it happened.

Well anyone can win with a decent car.

Anyone can win with a top car, maybe (although Kimi currently might disagree), but not in one that's merely competitive. I'm guessing here but I think Alonso was referring to the fact that if they'd had even a remotely competitive engine he could have taken advantage of the chaos and won the race. I doubt he was saying he could have won the race if he'd had Ferrari or Mercedes levels of competitiveness, as that would have been too obvious

I'm pretty sure Alonso meant he would have won with a decent car, not that he could have actually won the race as it happened.

Well anyone can win with a decent car.

Anyone can win with a top car, maybe (although Kimi currently might disagree), but not in one that's merely competitive. I'm guessing here but I think Alonso was referring to the fact that if they'd had even a remotely competitive engine he could have taken advantage of the chaos and won the race. I doubt he was saying he could have won the race if he'd had Ferrari or Mercedes levels of competitiveness, as that would have been too obvious

It's still doesn't change what I said, had Bottas not taken Kimi out he could have won the race so I don't know what Kimi will disagree about, after all Bottas came from a lap down to finish 2nd due to the chaos.

So the Alonso talk is hubris, not just for this race but they have never had a competitive engine, so its just self aggrandisement!

Yes the Force India guys were also in the running to win it. I couldn't remember if they were ahead of DR when they crashed out so didn't include them? So both FI were ahead of DR? So he had Hamilton, Vettel, Verstappen, Bottas, Raikkonen, Massa, Ocon and Perez all come to trouble in front of him? 8 drivers. DR is one lucky guy.

I'm pretty sure Alonso meant he would have won with a decent car, not that he could have actually won the race as it happened.

Well anyone can win with a decent car.

Anyone can win with a top car, maybe (although Kimi currently might disagree), but not in one that's merely competitive. I'm guessing here but I think Alonso was referring to the fact that if they'd had even a remotely competitive engine he could have taken advantage of the chaos and won the race. I doubt he was saying he could have won the race if he'd had Ferrari or Mercedes levels of competitiveness, as that would have been too obvious

It's still doesn't change what I said, had Bottas not taken Kimi out he could have won the race so I don't know what Kimi will disagree about, after all Bottas came from a lap down to finish 2nd due to the chaos.

So the Alonso talk is hubris, not just for this race but they have never had a competitive engine, so its just self aggrandisement!

I think it does. Not anyone can win, even with the best car. The point about Kimi was a little tongue in cheek but essentially he has one of the best cars on the grid and only once came remotely close to winning all season.

I disagree it's just self aggrandisement in this instance, although he's certainly shown us in the past that he's more than capable of that. I think all he was doing was highlighting that their poor PU doesn't even allow them to capitalise on others' misfortune

I think it does. Not anyone can win, even with the best car. The point about Kimi was a little tongue in cheek but essentially he has one of the best cars on the grid and only once came remotely close to winning all season.

I disagree it's just self aggrandisement in this instance, although he's certainly shown us in the past that he's more than capable of that. I think all he was doing was highlighting that their poor PU doesn't even allow them to capitalise on others' misfortune

Ok let me ask you this, are you going to say you don't know it will take only Sauber finishing the race for the Mclaren to have a chance of finishing first?

I mean it wasn't like it was only Baku the engine was not up to par.

This is similar to when the top guys are not pushing in Q2 and he says with a proper engine his lap will effectively be pole?

I think it does. Not anyone can win, even with the best car. The point about Kimi was a little tongue in cheek but essentially he has one of the best cars on the grid and only once came remotely close to winning all season.

I disagree it's just self aggrandisement in this instance, although he's certainly shown us in the past that he's more than capable of that. I think all he was doing was highlighting that their poor PU doesn't even allow them to capitalise on others' misfortune

Ok let me ask you this, are you going to say you don't know it will take only Sauber finishing the race for the Mclaren to have a chance of finishing first?

I mean it wasn't like it was only Baku the engine was not up to par.

This is similar to when the top guys are not pushing in Q2 and he says with a proper engine his lap will effectively be pole?

I'm sorry, I don't really understand the first question?

I think you're over-analysing. I think he was just being frustrated that even when all the cards fall his way he's effectively powerless to do anything about it

Zero respect for Lance Stroll (name changed). He was fully bank rolled into F1. Maybe you guys respect that, but I respect hard work and climbing the ranks. Having a billionaire dad pay for your career and continues to pay for private testing doesn't gain points with me. A fortunate turn of events at Baku isn't something to be proud of. Villeneuve is right, he has been unimpressive.

Zero respect for Lance Stroll (name changed). He was fully bank rolled into F1. Maybe you guys respect that, but I respect hard work and climbing the ranks. Having a billionaire dad pay for your career and continues to pay for private testing doesn't gain points with me. A fortunate turn of events at Baku isn't something to be proud of. Villeneuve is right, he has been unimpressive.

Right up until Baku where he out qualified his team mate and scored a podium. That was impressive. if he keeps driving like that he will be fine.

Zero respect for Lance Stroll (name changed). He was fully bank rolled into F1. Maybe you guys respect that, but I respect hard work and climbing the ranks. Having a billionaire dad pay for your career and continues to pay for private testing doesn't gain points with me. A fortunate turn of events at Baku isn't something to be proud of. Villeneuve is right, he has been unimpressive.

He had a less than stellar start, but he is turning things around and you can't say that driving a Williams is getting "fully bankrolled" to finish on the podium. At most, he got a race seat through money, which ultimately every driver needs at some point in his career, whether it is his own or provided by a sponsor. Stroll was genuinely fast in Baku, probably the most difficult circuit on the calendar so far. If he keeps up that level of performance, then he has a fine F1 career ahead of him. Nothing is set in stone, he still had more bad races than good ones up to this point, but at least he has shown that being fast and keeping it clean at the same time are not beyond his abilities.