Thinking about replacing my Bags...

Over the last year, I've slowly been transitioning to five strings from four. Because of this, I'm thinking I need to reassess my rig.

I've had a WT-550 and a pair of Bag End S15-Ds for some time, and have been very happy with my sound. However, I think I may be giving up a lot of low end using the Bags with my fivers. Unfortunately, the only way I can see doing this is to buy something else and A/B them at my leisure under a bunch of different conditions, then sell off the losers.

I play old school rock and blues - thuddy flats, no slap, 95% fingerstyle, no flash - and usually run my treble all the way down. No need for tweeters here! I like the light weight of my Bags, and would not consider cabs that are any larger or heavier - my back isn't getting any younger.

Anyway, I'm thinking a pair of matched 1x12s is my best starting point, either Eden D112XLTs, or Aguilar GS112s or GS112NTs. I'm willing to consider 10s, but I don't think a pair of 10s will cut it for me - I'd need 4.

Reading the specs is driving me nuts - the Edens are published down to 32 Hz and the Aggies 42 Hz, but almost all posters have said the Aggies sounded deeper.

What I'm reading here strongly suggests the Aggies, and the GS112NT particularly catch my eye - maybe a pair of 'em or one GS112 and one GS112NT so I would have a tweeter if my tastes change in the future.

2) A low roll-off will not necessarily make a B string sound better. Lot's of posts on the 'B string fundamental' issue that might be interesting to you if you do a search.

3) I had a couple of the Bags that you have now (I had one with and one without a tweeter). They do sound good, but I understand what you are saying about the low end... they really stop at the low mids.... even though I mentioned how misleading published roll-off specs can be... those cabs roll off REALLY high... I think around 60 or 70 hz!!!!

Given your description of the tone you are going after and the type of music you play, the Accugroove Whappo Jr. might just be your cup of tea. Thunderous lows with plently of the mid punch that I assume you love in your Bag's... plus the new all neo version is very light. It's big enough to do the loudest gig and small and light enough to get up and down stairs by yourself. There's been lot's of drama about the Accuswitch not really working, but I assume you would only use one cab anyway... one is plenty. So, basically, it would be a 4 ohm cab. A number of people (including myself and the BP reviewer) note that the Accugroove line does not provide the treble sparkly of other cabs, but that sounds like a positive for the sound you are trying to get.

If that cab is a little too big (and expensive!), the Schroeder1210 is an amazing solution and has plenty of punch and a very 'natural' treble response with the standard tweeter at about 9 o'clock (some TBers have posted that it's the first tweeter they've liked). I would highly recommend this cab also... it's about the size and weight of one of your Bags and puts out WAY more sound.

The Aguilar 112's are popular... too scooped sounding for me, and they are very bright on the treble end (although I guess you could turn the tweeter off). The Eden112XLT is very nasally and has too much nasally mid voicing, IMO.

The Accugroove sounds interesting, but it looks to be both too large and too expensive for me. Seriously, my back wouldn't take humping a cab that size around.

You're right - the Bags sound great with a four, but they really don't have thunderous lows. The overall package is very pleasing, however - especially with a pair of them. I actually like them enough that I may keep them anyway in addition to a pair of new 12s.

The Accugroove sounds interesting, but it looks to be both too large and too expensive for me. Seriously, my back wouldn't take humping a cab that size around.

You're right - the Bags sound great with a four, but they really don't have thunderous lows. The overall package is very pleasing, however - especially with a pair of them. I actually like them enough that I may keep them anyway in addition to a pair of new 12s.

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Check out those Schroeders then.... either a single 1210 or 1212... very loud and punchy and 47 pounds, or two mini12's (they come with or without tweeters).

Also, the Bergantino 12's come without tweeters and are said to be very full, thick and punchy.

I would definatly look strongly into schroders. Also, i have tried the Eden 112XLT. On my 6 brice it didn't sound horrible. But i don't think it would obtain the lows you want from it. My 4x10 Eden XLT pushes out decent lows, but for the most part I'm useing 4 bangers. I have had very little expirence with the GS112, but I know a few guys that have them, and they've only said good things about them. But one problem with eden cabs... they are extremely heavy. I'm lucky, at 15 my back is still young, and I can usually coroase a band mate into helping me shelp around my 98 pound beast.

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Reading the specs is driving me nuts - the Edens are published down to 32 Hz and the Aggies 42 Hz, but almost all posters have said the Aggies sounded deeper.

What I'm reading here strongly suggests the Aggies, and the GS112NT particularly catch my eye - maybe a pair of 'em or one GS112 and one GS112NT so I would have a tweeter if my tastes change in the future.

Comments?

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yea,

specs dont mean diddly. i a/b'ed a GS112 and 112XLT, and the aggies felt much more deeper and lower than the Edens. no question. do a search for my name, and you'll see a little comparison i did of the 112XLT and a few other 1x12's.

the accu's are great cabs, but very pricey, especially for a pair. on the other hand, the Aggies are a great deal, and they pop up pretty frequently used due to their popularity, NOT some quixotic inferiority complex.

also, dont count out a pair of Acme B2's, or a single B4. for most moderate to loud music, other than metal, the acmes do a terrific job of projecting w/ authority anything lower than the 41Hz of the low E. i've been gigging w/ my acme B-4 for the past month or so, and its MORE than held their ground in a funk rock trio, louder singer/songwriter gig, and yes, my weekly set of praise/worship gigs.

the BE D10 cabs are better on the bass, but they are a lot heavier for sure. I really liked the low end of the aggie GS112 cabs, and they are lighter than the S15 cabs. The only downside is that they're not as loud and need a bit of mid bump (but the eq on the eden is great for that). Dave B commented that the GS112 was inspired by the S15, but he wanted a similar cab that could go deeper. He succeded in that regard. I have used the GS-112 with a S15, the combo sounded OK, but the BE overpowers the aggies significantly on a mono amp. you really need a stereo amp to balance between the two. Personally, if you find it's loud enough for you with your current amp, i wouldnt hesitate to use a pair of Gs-112 or one of those and a gs-112NT.

the eden 12"s i tried really didnt have me anywhere as impressed as the aggies.

You know how i feel about the BE S15 cabs, and I've used the Aggie 112 quite a bit. Like i said, the mids can be "corrected" with the eq, the volume drop is more of an issue, but not huge. The low end with the aggies is great.

Hey Ken, I think you'd like the Aggies with the tweeters rolled off (or at least down). I used a GS212 for a while, and it has a THUNDEROUS low end.

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Hello! You know, I had one for a short while. It seems that was one of the first really lightweight 12's out there. It just wasn't my thing.... I like a lot of treble responses ala Marcus Miller's tone, but the high end just didn't do it on that cab for some reason... it always sounded very shrill and harsh to me. Also, I could never adequately EQ the lack of mid punch back in. I agree with you on the low end though.... lot's for a little cab like that!

Also, per the Acme recommendation to the thread originator above.... make sure you do a search and read the many positive and many negative comments on those cabs.... they are a 'love them or hate them' sort of thing. Some love the low end extension for such a small cab, others find the low end rather tubby and overextended and the cabs way too power hungry. I personally am toward the latter feeling.

Heavy- GK Neo 12"s are incredibly good, especially for the money. They are a real sleeper. The 2x12 Neo is about 65lbs and puts out a ton of low end while retaining very good punch. Smoother than the Bag Ends but much bigger sounding. I haven't heard the 1x12's. The 2x12 is not unwieldy at all.

It also matches up quite well with the Eden...Rik's sells them for something like $639 shipped.

For what it's worth... I play a fender RBV with flats thru an AI Clarus / Berg HT-112. Very responsive and detailed in the mids and highs. The low end is ok, but much better when coupled with an Avatar 112 cab (newer version). This would make a great R&B rig, lite and loud!