You're delusional, the only people complaining about WoW during WOTLK were elitists who thought that raiding should be for those who "work for it only".

So nobody complained about naxx being a joke raid, faceroll heroics, wintergrasp, dk's being insanely OP, pvp balance, toc being the worst raid ever and introducing 4 diff lockouts, naxx being out too long and having limited attempts, the implementation of 30% buff, gearscore. No one complained about these things? Yea Im the delusional one

So for a company which makes tens of millions of month, instead of improving a system and adding more variety then should crap it and focus on useless shit like pet battles?

dude you should work at blizzard you'd fit right in.

Generally in a development company, something like pet battles is initially designed by one person as a personal/side project and if it seems like something that can take off then it gets picked up and worked on.

Frankly pet battles are a nice little side game that myself and many others enjoy. I've never heard a single person that wants or cares about aerial combat. You seem really mad that the game has more variety now and is in a much more polished and better place.

---------- Post added 2013-05-21 at 02:49 PM ----------

Originally Posted by antelope591

So nobody complained about naxx being a joke raid, faceroll heroics, wintergrasp, dk's being insanely OP, pvp balance, toc being the worst raid ever and introducing 4 diff lockouts, naxx being out too long and having limited attempts, the implementation of 30% buff, gearscore. No one complained about these things? Yea Im the delusional one

Great post. These were all things I complained about at the time.

I've had fun in every single expansion and I've enjoyed all 8 years I've played this game for different reasons throughout its life, but Wrath had the most things I thought were terrible by a considerable margin.

The only people I know who go to Dalaran are alts leveling or players ganking alts. Even during Wrath I remember people despising Dalarn because of the immense lag. I don't know anyone who really enjoyed Dalaran or has fond memories of it.

I liked Wrath more because it seemed to be the culmination of all the lore they had built up over the years, so the entire expansion had a tension built into it due to the inevitable confrontation with the penultimate villain. Like the whole expanion was the last stage in an RPG where you had all your party members, knew the whole story and were building up your strength to confront the last boss.

I liked Wrath more because it seemed to be the culmination of all the lore they had built up over the years, so the entire expansion had a tension built into it due to the inevitable confrontation with the penultimate villain. Like the whole expanion was the last stage in an RPG where you had all your party members, knew the whole story and were building up your strength to confront the last boss.

And then they portrayed him horrendously all throughout the expansion. Like the most cliche stupid villain ever. Extremely disappointing given the history behind it all.

Last (so far) of the 10 level expansions, followed by two smaller ones that both lost subs. First we hear that subs are lost because the content isn't good. Then we hear that subs went away because the content is too grindy. Maybe the problem is that it's just not compelling.

Don't get me wrong, MoP is a solid expansion, and Pandaria is at times intriguing (and quite pretty), but it's not particularly menacing with the exception of Dread Wastes. So it's hard to describe, but that feeling of 'ominous' isn't all that apparent, or at least doesn't really smack you when you first arrive in the way, say, landing in HF or going through the dark portal did. I suspect that things like that sort of stick with players, and set the tone for everything else they view as they go along.

Maybe in the long term, this break is what was needed in the game so the next expansion can absolutely blow folks away in that regard. *shrug*

---------- Post added 2013-05-21 at 09:47 AM ----------

Console players. Enough said.

/glorious race

I agree with this post quite a bit. Pally tanking in Wrath was the shit. ^_^ I know I may be "doin' it wrong" playing an mmo for the story, but I really disliked the direction the story went after Wrath. The whole Alliance vs. Horde thing felt very forced after TBC and Wrath where they spent the last few years working together to kick some ass. And MoP felt like it was just continuing the Cata sub plot of the Alliance and Horde wanting to kill each other. I'm sorry, but that's anime filler format. It's fighting for the sake of fighting because nothing else exciting is happening in the story. That's why I really hope that the next expansion is something like TBC 2.0. I want Sargeras.

Oh, and I gotta disagree with you about CoD. CoD is a fucking brilliant series and video games would be a lot better if the rest of the industry could learn from that. CoD's success has very little to do with it being a console game, (other console games have tried to cash in on CoD's success and failed miserably) and a lot to do with how they handle sequels. Look at any series of games that has an extremely successful individual game and then a sequel that gets panned by fans, they all have something in common. Let me give a few examples, Final Fantasy, Diablo, Devil May Cry, Halo and World of Warcraft. These games all made the same mistake; they didn't cater to their fans. In general, fans detest innovation. They want iteration. They want the same game with a new coat of paint and new features. CoD is brilliant because they've kept the core of their games intact since MW1 and their changes have been minor but notable to the fans. Pokemon does the exact same thing as CoD and I feel it's very deserving of the success it gets as a result. If current Final Fantasies were more like 7-10 there'd be less bitching. If Diablo 3 was more like Diablo 2 there'd be less bitching. If DmC Devil May Cry was more like DMC 3 and 4 there'd be less bitching. If Halo 3-4 were more like Halo 2 there'd be less bitching. If Mop/Cata were more like Wrath then guess what, there'd be less bitching.

If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

If Mop/Cata were more like Wrath then guess what, there'd be less bitching.

but wrath wasn't like tbc. and tbc wasn't like vanills. and vanilla wasn't like the previous RTS games. but all these games were successful, so it the problem isn't that cata and mop are too different. the problem is simply that the game is getting old.

The only people I know who go to Dalaran are alts leveling or players ganking alts. Even during Wrath I remember people despising Dalarn because of the immense lag. I don't know anyone who really enjoyed Dalaran or has fond memories of it.

I really loved Dalaran and have fond memories of it.

The lag was bad though.

Originally Posted by Paul - Thrall

The ignorance on this thread gave me cancer. At least I have insurance. Thanks, Obama!

I disagree. The only think I really liked about Wrath was Ulduar, the rest was either ok or just plain out terrible. I didn't do much PvP during Wrath, but PvE was suffered from crappy raids like Naxx 2.0, ToC and Ruby Sanctum, and ICC just lasted way too long. I don't ever want another Vanilla, TBC, Wrath or Cata, All I want is the game to move forward and improve from the mistakes of the past.

So for a company which makes tens of millions of month, instead of improving a system and adding more variety then should crap it and focus on useless shit like pet battles?

dude you should work at blizzard you'd fit right in.

You want to know how that company makes tens of millions of dollars? Because they scrap shit ideas that aren't worth the effort of forcing it to work that still might not end up fun.

I hate pet battles too but this is quite honestly nothing more than you thought the other idea was cool and pet battles weren't and you're butt hurt that pet battles made it in. For a guy who used the term pathetic elitists you're quite the snob.

“Logic: The art of thinking and reasoning in strict accordance with the limitations and incapacities of the human misunderstanding.”
"Conservative, n: A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal who wishes to replace them with others."
Ambrose Bierce
The Bird of Hermes Is My Name, Eating My Wings To Make Me Tame.

There is no perfect spot WoW can be at, because no matter what stage WoW is in, there'll be people that hate it.

Personally I prefer WOTLK because of the group of people I played with, even though a few things could indeed have been done better.
But I also really like MoP a lot more than Cata. So far, MoP has been fixes a lot of the problems that Cata had.

12 months of ICC actually. So if you don't count Ruby Sanctum, there was 12 months of no new content, yet the game still climbed to 12 million players by the end of the expansion.

Some may argue that the climb from the end of BC to the end of Wrath was weak compared to the end of Vanilla, however I think it would be more appropriate to say 12 million was the player saturation point.

Ever since then, the game has lost 4 million players. Sure some may just be tired of the game, but it would seem it would be wise of Blizzard to try to emulate Wrath's winning formula. Shockingly, they do not appear to be doing that.

Again, Blizzard states that people drift because of no new content, so their focus is to push content out faster and faster. Then what made subs continue to rise in Wrath even though we went from December 2009 to December 2010 without a new raid?

it was dropping not climbing at the end. also "soooo many people" hate it then.

wotlk was alright, starter raids werent that amazing except OS+3.
Ulduar was amazing, ToGC bored the hell out of me really quick with 4 runs to be a week.
and ICC just lasted too long to be enjoyable at the end and RS felt more like a desperate move too add something in the long wait.

overall i didnt hit the sweet spot for me, except when i was doing ulduar.

They should've added more content, not completely change how things work. Blizzard hasn't reached the sweet spot again since 4.0

What sweet spot? There is a glaring hole between nolifer "casuals" and scheduled raiding leaving the casual play time casuals with a fraction of the rewards and casual playtime vets with no challenging group based content to do without being in a guild. The MoP formula does not follow the WotLK formula. WotLK involved a lot of the community doing PuGing and still a minority of the population seeing all the content. WotLK involved fast catch up mechanics that proved to be very popular that Cata refined perhaps too well to the point that even those who played on a casual play time quickly consumed the content to fast compared to WotLK which was far more grindy and required raiding to get the majority of the badges.

Cata certainly should of had more content that the developers claimed was not practical to do at the time. The changes that occurred late Cata is part of the foundations of MoP. MoP changed how things work. There even had to be a how to blog telling players who wanted to catch up where all the different paths they would need to juggle compared the the previous expansions fairly liner gearing paths.