funky koval wrote:I still don't get what makes Orion's mixer so special. It was the pattern bank per device workflow that made it unique. Every other DAW, except maybe Traction, has a mixer with volume faders, pan, sends and inserts. Graphically they might be represented a little differently but functionally they're almost all exactly the same.

i totally agree with that.ihmo, the main difference between orion and live is that once the patterns from the session are copied to the arrangement you will loose the link between them, modifying a pattern in the session view will not modify the previously copied pattern in the arrangement view

funky koval wrote:I still don't get what makes Orion's mixer so special. It was the pattern bank per device workflow that made it unique. Every other DAW, except maybe Traction, has a mixer with volume faders, pan, sends and inserts. Graphically they might be represented a little differently but functionally they're almost all exactly the same.

Sure, most other applications have a mixer these days but it's a bolted on afterthought and wasn't there when I was using them. In Orion it has been front and centre from the beginning (I started with it at v1.2) and it actually looks like a mixer, master section and all.

It comes down to where you spend the most time. I spend comparatively little time in either the pattern editor or playlist, those are windows I don't need to see all the time. Where I spend the vast majority of my time is in the Mixer, and in individual instrument/effect UIs, so those windows are more important to me. AFAIK, Orion is still the only sequencer that allows me to see all my instruments, or at least the toolbars for them, and the entire Mixer at the same time, as well as all my effect toolbars. Everything else I've seen/used has the equivalent of the playlist front and centre, with other things like mixer functions tied to it. For my workflow that is a big waste of screen space.

We have been using Orion from the start, and many bands from the main Industrial record company (not going to name them here) along with many of their main Industrial & EDM bands, ive seen it with my own eyes during studio takes; I'm sure you can figure out who they are. Very interesting how I first came across ORION from a euro pop duo band as they were using an interesting vintage method in a UMI2 system, simply amazing! Their cross over method was extreamly interesting as ORION was the real deal, the closest you could get to a real mixer situation & analog synth window placement. How I use ORION to this day is the only way; simply all my analog synths are controlled by the ORION midi pattern system & recorded back into ORION using scarlet audio rack with motu midi rack, once the song program is created within the master ORION template it's added main mixer audio plugs add the correct touch... The program tracks get bounced to 24bit then transferred to tools for full mixing and added vocal or guitar ect.... this by far is thee most interesting & works amazing!! I know of many artists that use this same very approach & will continue to do so. Thought I'd share some interesting info that I've kept to myself for some time.ORION will continue to be used by many of us....

Pussyshaver wrote:Has anyone tried Renoise?Pretty pattern-based if you ask me, and still being actively developed.

It's tracker based, and it's patterns are nothing more than grouping of all instruments. In comparison, that would be like making music with Orion's Live Sets. Pretty cumbersome, if you ask me. Honestly, I don't think I could EVER go back to using a tracker.

But if anyone is considering using trackers, Open MPT is another option. Might not look fancy and all, certainly lacks some features, but it's being developed and it's free.

The whole Renoise thing is hard to compare to DAWs interface, usage and developement. It is very much a take it or leave it deal. The thing is very orthodox in a sense that it is a tracker and probably always be. It is a very advanced tracker though.The developement is steady and slow and they don't implement user ideas. I like it a lot for what it is but many can't take it in.