Reds InsiderFrom news of the day to news of the weird, John Fay provides a glimpse of what it’s like to cover the Cincinnati Reds

John Fay has been the Reds beat writer for the Enquirer since 2001. Prior to that, he served in a variety of roles for the Enquirer: backup Reds writer, UC beat writer, backup Bengals writer and as a general assignment reporter. He is a Cincinnati native and a graduate of Elder High School and the University of Dayton.

Monday, May 5, 2008

Weathers v. Brantley

David Weathers was listening to radio on his way home from working out Sunday when he heard Jeff Brantley say something he didn’t like.

When asked about Monday. Weathers let Brantley have it.

"All I said if this easy to play baseball, he should find a uniform and play," Weathers said. "I was basically was taking up for my teammates. I heard some comments that he thought guys were quitting. I didn’t feel that way. It’s easy to say that when things are going tough for a team. It’s easy to dog-pile. I felt like he was doing that."

Brantley stood by the gist of what he said.

"I said there are guys on the team that obviously trying much harder some of the other guys," he said. "This team needs some spark and jump start to get back playing the game the right way. That’s what I said -- if I remember correctly."

Weathers said he and Brantley are good friends. Weathers tried to downplay and said he's not mad at Brantley.

"Sometimes things are said," Weathers said. "We take a lot of pride in what we do. You hear things – I’ve been on DL watching and listening – sometimes you’ve got to defend your guys. I don’t feel like we have anybody quitting. Do we have guys struggling? Yeah. That doesn’t mean you quit."

The interesting thing in this is Weathers and Brantley are similar. Brantley would have done the same thing in roles were reversed.

62 Comments:

I'm torn. I like when the announcers "speak" for the fans by airing frustrations with the players instead of "George Granding" everything but I think Weathers has a point. It seems like everyone does pile on and that can't be good for morale.

It has always been unfair for the guy with the mike, usually caustic Marty) to be able to criticize the players when the players have no podium from with to respond. I'm glad Weathers spoke up and john passed it on. I hope it's in the newspaper.

By the way, Marty called Griffey's fly a home run and it was caught. No one gets to dump on Marty for an error a NOFer should not have made. Take that, guy with the mike.

what weathers does not understand..or fails to mention is that this team has been going "tough" for the past seven years..this is not just an isolated bad stretch

Brantley was absolutely dead on. I met David Weathers..he is a great dude. But..hes nearing the end of his career, still making alot of money and just maybe Brantleys about some players just collecting a paycheck hit home

Usually when things said are 'way off base', it doesn't even deserve comment. The fact that Weathers had a reaction indicates that there is some truth to it. Still, I don't blame Stormy for his reaction. He is a stand-up guy.

Actually Brantley called out Dunn, Griffey, and without naming names Patterson as ones who weren't giving 100% and said Jr may be upset his option for next year hasn't been picked up yet. This was on Eddie Fingers & Tracy Jones show.

I like Jeff Brantley because he isn't afraid to say what he thinks and feels. He was fairly accurate with his assessment, although I would have described the situation as players who do not care very much as opposed to "quitting." There are several players who seem to want to win, but they're OK with losing too. You can tell who these players are by the way they play the game. This organization will never go very far if we continue to hang on to certain players that are content with losing.

So Thom Brenneman asks Chris Welsh last night what he thinks of Junior batting second, and Welsh starts off saying something true - it's about OBP, but then he quickly backtracked and said that Junior was an on-base guy so that it was a good decision. I strongly disagree.

Seems like the Reds are afraid to make changes. I see the Tigers send Jacques Jones down and bring up a AAA player. They also shake-up the defense by putting Gary Sheffield in LF.

Seriously, I ask the question, what's it hurt to give some of our top prospects a chance to play? The Reds are 13 - 20. What can this team possibly be afraid of? Are they afraid these guys won't pan out and then what?

Jeff was a much better pitcher than you will ever be. Career ERA around 3, Rolaids Relief man, etc. Why don't you just quit your complaining, go back on the mound, and throw up another couple of gopher balls that will get smashed. You better hope he doesn't put on a uniform, because your job would be gone pretty quick. When your career ERA is under 4.25, come find us and we can talk about it. Know your role.

Its easy to pile on when things are going badly, but I must admit Ive gotten the same feeling from a distance that Brantley has up close. This team doesnt seem to play with the sense of urgency other teams play with and it is extremely frustrating when everything is going wrong like it did in Atlanta.

Thanks for your consistently good work. I live in Denver and on the sports talk shows this morning the local guys mentioned that the Rockies are trying to get Josh Fogg back from the Reds to shore up their starting pitching. additionally, they stated that the Rockies aren't offering much because they know that Fogg will be released in 7-10 when Homer Bailey gets called up.

Cowboy is right on! Who the heck is David Weathers? Really, put a uniform on and play, wake up DAVE....Brantley has done more and seen more in the bigs than you ever will. This team is lost, and some guys have quit, that is obvious to all of us fans, if it weren't true, no one would react like that.

I will agree with one thing from Weathers, he hasn't quit, the PROBLEM is, he just isn't that good. The truth hurts sometime, but I like Jeff Brantley's take on the game, he can be a little arogant, but after years in the league, he can be that way. He is a straight shooter (cowboy), and some people just don't like that, but that is what this City needs.

I really can't stand Brantley at this point. It seems like he says something that gets on my nerves every game. It's like he's looking for a fight. It doesn't help that he thinks he knows what every player's problem is either. TK-It seems like Soto likes working with the youngsters rather than major leaguers, but you're right. Dick Pole hasn't done anything and Brook Jacoby isn't looking spectacular either. I would pay Dave Duncan millions of dollars to be our pitching coach. Every year he performs miracles. How in the world are the Cardinals 21-12? I know they'll come back down to earth, but their starting rotation is a joke and Pujols is the only player I want in my lineup.

I find it interesting that Weathers is the only one we've heard about who complained. It may be an indication Weathers has a leadership characteristic in him that needs to be heard more often? If Brantley's statement were that far off target, more players should have spoken up about it. And maybe they have.

Brantley has a view of this team's performance that is closer to what we see as fans. I see some Reds players playing with a lack of emotion and fire. Hoepfully, that lack of emotion and fire will not become the defining attitude of the entire team. Weathers response is a good indication it has not.

Brantley cannot lead the team from the radio booth and he is looking for some player leadership. Some player(s) willing to step up and get in the face of the other players who are not getting the job done or not hustling. Weathers has accepted accountability for his performance on the field in the past. Maybe he is the man for the "C" on his uniform? Maybe Jeff Keppinger is the guy? He sure demonstrates the ability and desire to play the game the right way. I've never seen him not hustle! He seams to know how the game should be played.

If either Dunn or Griffey Jr. is not going to be the leader, they should be willing to be lead by the smallest guy on the team. Leadership is not about HRs or BAs. The Reds, Dusty Baker and Walt Jockety should be eager to part as quickly as possible with any player not willing to either lead or be lead. Just like life, there is no hanging out in the middle in baseball if you expect to be a winner.

This team does not know what a winning attitude looks like. That is what I heard the Cowboy say the other night. The Cowboy is right.

When things go wrong, it's easy to point fingers. I can find creadence in both their comments though. Weather's is sticking up for his teamates so no harm in that but Brantley also speaks the truth. Sometimes I think we have too many players who've grown accustomed to losing. We need to purge that mentality.

I agree with Soto as pitching coach - it was amazing to see Cueto's performance last night compared to his last start. Soto really worked some magic for that drastic of an improvement.

As for Brantley - he doesn't need the tenure Marty has to be critical - he has worn the Reds uniform and was a solid closer for quite a few years - that's all the credit he needs. When he played for the Reds, they were competitive and they were winning!

john according to www.mlbtraderumors.com and www.foxsports.com the rockies have interest in trading for josh fogg have you heard anything about this and if it does happen who would take him roster spot i would think hopper when he comes off dl but wouldnt that leave us short a pitcher

I have to agree with Brantley. Dunn, Griffey and others have been going through the motions. I hated it last night when Griffey again, didn't run out after hitting the ball to the wall. Bench him for that. Brantley quotes hit the nail on the head but some players doesn't like to hear them. Brantley said that they didn't give 100% and he didn't say that they were quitter.On Griffey Jr contract next year, don't worry about it Griffey Jr., you have to earn it. Play ball!!!

I think it's good for Weathers to stand up and say something. What's it hurting? It shows a bit of leadership.

I like Brantley and like listening to him on TV or on the radio. He needs to stick to his rants on pitching though...he lacks in knowledge of hitting (obvious from the EE comment at the beginning of the year).

I agree with all the posters that said that it was good that Weathers stuck up for his team. Too bad more players didn't do the same. This is the kind of thing that teams need to do. Too bad it wasn't a bigger reaction.

I don't think you need to be the reds announcer for 30+ years to have an opinion, nor do you have to know any players personally. I do think you're doing a fine job, John. But, I don't agree that you are in the top three of good things about Reds baseball. Sorry.

According to USA Today, Griffey wants to return to Seattle and Seattle wants him back. Well, what the hell is the holdup?

Lip service from David Weathers, what else would you expect him to say. Actually he should have kept his mouth shut instead of making a fool of himself. I agree with Brantley and so does everyone else with a lick of sense.ST CSA

Brantley's choice of the word "quit" was not good but the sentiment is correct. This team has been going through the motions for at least the last several seasons. Weathers did right by his teammates, but when did it become neccessary for a bradcaster's comments to fire up a team. This team isn't very good but has an attitude that makes it hard for the average fan to embrace. This team had lacked a leader since Greg Vuaghn left in 1999. Maybe Jay Bruce can help provide some on-field leadership?

Catcher or Shortstop are typical leadership positions. Will Clark did it from 1st base. Pete Rose from whatever position he was an all star at that day and Nolan Ryan did it the day he bulldogged Robin Ventura.

I really could care less who steps up and starts the engine. David Ross? Fine. Keppinger? Fine. Phillips? Fine.

Ryan Freel and Weathers for all their shortcomings come closest to being the leader on this team.

Too many guys are playing like they are trying to make the team versus win the pennant. Add Cordero to the leadership list.

"Cowboy is right on! Who the heck is David Weathers? Really, put a uniform on and play, wake up DAVE....Brantley has done more and seen more in the bigs than you ever will."

David Weathers has pitched for more years, played for more teams and thrown more innings than Brantley did in his career. Weathers also won a World Series, something Cowboy never did. Weather's experience stacks up just fine.

Personally, I'm already tired of Brantley's act. He doesn't offer insight, he just picks on whoever is down at the time. EE has a tough start and he's "not clutch." A month later, when Encarnacion's doing great with RISP, Brantley simply finds someone else to dump on. It's crass and dull and not remotely good baseball commentary.

I thought that Don Gullett was on par with Leo Mazonne and Dave Duncan as a pitching coach. He helped pitchers like Pete Shourek, Pete Harnisch, Dave Burba, Mark Portugal, etc. become better than what they really were. Because he was so good at reviving the careers of pitchers, Bowden kept bringing him junks like Paul Wilson, Jimmy Haynes, Lance Davis, Luke Hudson, Ramon Ortiz, etc. and expect him to turn all of them into competent Major League pitchers. I thought he was unfairly fired along with Dave Miley in 2005.

He was a much better pitching coach than Dick Pole and has more experience than Mario Soto (whom as far as I know only work with 2 pitchers out of the 12 that are on this team).

Do you think the Mariners would be willing to trade Richie Sexson to the Reds for Junior? Sexson can play 1B. Votto played outfield last season, has good speed and arm, he can man the right field until Dunn is traded.

I agree with reaganspad: it's all good. Brantley has a constitutional right to his opinion -- and he's obviously got a point. On the other side, Weathers has a right and a responsibility (as the only guy manning up to defend himself and his teammates) to argue with Brantley's criticism -- this is why you keep a guy like Stormy on the team: it's called leadership, that crucial element to a successful team that so many of us have been wanting to see from the big-salary guys. Let's see some more of this fire on the d*mn field, up and down the roster. If Cowboy helps stoke it up, then more power to him.

One more thing: I love the idiotic comments about Weathers -- how quickly we forget that he was the MVP of the team last year, the only thing holding that sorry bullpen together. Doesn't mean he gets a free pass when he blows up -- and he'll be the first person to take responsibility for that. But it's this kind of short-sighted, what-have-you-done-for-me-in-the-last-five-minutes mentality among *some* Reds fans that is so freaking embarrassing. Weathers is *not* the problem.

Media guys are the "only good thing" about Reds baseball? Then why waste your/our time? Ludicrous.

Middie- I agree with you. I posted a couple of days ago that I don't think Weathers should have been brought back up at all. He's throwing 85 mph meatballs-it's only a matter of time until he blows an 8th inning lead. He got lucky yesterday throwing junk but that won't last long. If we can unload Fogg, and bring Bray back up within the next 2 weeks we can hopefully avoid Stormy Weather.

Weathers needs to worry about pitching better. Brantley needs to worry about announcing better. The rest of this is just a side show and indicative of what is wrong with the team...worrying about the wrong stuff.

Im proud of Weathers he handled that great sticking up for his players, but I agree with the blogger Jeff, im torn to because Brantley is talking like myself or other reds, hes talking out of frustration, its our team to you want to see them win and they are not. But Weathers did the right thing maybe that can spark something, GO REDS!

I kind of like Weathers standing up for his team mates. I think "leadership" by the players is over-rated. Good play fosters good morale, which is labeled leadership when an outgoing, veteran is able to light a little fire under someone. I'm not dismissing it altogether, just think it is over rated.

Another thing is, "character". People, especially former players, invoke that as if good baseball players are better than everybody else because they can hit, throw or catch a ball. Negative leadership such as the proverbial clubhouse cancer can have a bad effect and an optimistic attitude or fiery outlook can have a good effect, but in the final analysis it comes down the the skills, not chemistry, character or leadership on the part of the players. Much more important for management to have those skills.

Pitchers know how to pitch around hitters and their weaknesses (ie. their hot and cold spots)...they know how to pitch. Not hit.

Did you ever hear Joe Nuxhall saying that Edwin Encarnacion isn't clutch or ANYONE for that matter? No...it wasn't his place (even though he wasn't a bad hitting pitcher). Nuxhall knew pitching. Same with Brantley...needs to stick with what he knows, and that's pitching.

According to your logic, Dick Pole could be our hitting coach as well. I still don't know how you expect anyone to take you seriously! LOL!!

Do you hear that? That's the sound of me snoring louder.

Who cares about high school girls locker room drama?

If you don't care, then why are you posting about it?

Maybe you should crawl out from under your rock every once in awhile and quit being so darned negative. Just a thought!

I think of it in even simpler terms. Baseball is entertainment. And I love it when the team is doing well, to hear announcers praise the same athletes they disparage when they are losing. It's part of the experience. We also have 3 announcers that are very good at it (The 3 B's), one annnouncer that is ok at it (The crafty left hander) and one that couldn't say a bad thing about a player if that player beat him in the head with a bat (Georgey G).

Also..keep in mind...pro athletes are coddled like babies and paid like kings. They can be subjected to a little criticism now and them, especially when it's spot on.

tom dunne, thought you weren't coming back till june? you must not listen to the games on the radio if you think brantley has nothing to offer, they guy can break it down, he provides excellent insight into pitching and problems guys like cueto and arroyo have been having w/ their mechanics.

no problem with weathers response either, good to see someone on the team has a little pride.

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