I am in the market for a new flat panel TV/monitor to replace my trusty yet ailing Toshiba 30HFX84 HD CRT. I have a set of requirements that has proven difficult to shop for. The short story is that I'm looking for a 32" or 37" display with the best image quality possible (I have strict space constraints in my viewing environment, but having cut my teeth in broadcast and d-cinema, I'm finicky about picture). The long story is as follows.

Need:

32" or 37" diagonal screen size

Advanced color calibration controls/ability to produce and hold the best possible color calibration

Better than 6-bit panel (color resolution is a huge thing for me)

Want:

1080p resolution

Deep, rich blacks

Ability to correct gamma (or at least, have it roughly correct out of the box)

No major ghosting issues

Ability to fully deactivate any motion interpolation/edge enhancement/other sorts of ill-advised processing garbage that seems to be endemic to modern displays

Don't Care at All About:

3D. However, I will consider a 3D capable set if it happens to also have better overall 2D performance than its 2D-only counterparts.

Thanks for the helpful reply, sounds like you really understand my goals with this set. As it happens, I was leaning towards LG for all the reasons you just stated. For comparison, what do you think about the 37LV3500? LED backlighting and picture modes designed specifically to hold ISF calibrations is promising.

Yes, full chroma sub-sampling on each pixel would be ideal! However, I didn't hold out much hope for finding a 4:4:4 panel in this size. So both the LG set and the Sony set feature 4:4:4

Regarding blacks, I assumed that nothing will match the beautiful blacks of my old CRT. But I have lots of control over ambient lighting in my viewing environment, so as long as the set doesn't render unusually poor black levels, I'm game.

It's too bad about the space requirements as your budget would get you up to a 46" tv.

I would recommend a samsung over an LG. Samsung's black levels are much, much better. I purchased both and the samsung's picture was clearly superior, across the board, regardless of source material.

It seems as if samsung and others are moving towards 720p for 32" tv's, and that 37" tv's are becoming phased out in favor of 40" tv's as lcd panel prices drop.

In particular, samsung ln32d550.

Quote:

Originally Posted by grizzledyoungman

Hello all!

I am in the market for a new flat panel TV/monitor to replace my trusty yet ailing Toshiba 30HFX84 HD CRT. I have a set of requirements that has proven difficult to shop for. The short story is that I'm looking for a 32" or 37" display with the best image quality possible (I have strict space constraints in my viewing environment, but having cut my teeth in broadcast and d-cinema, I'm finicky about picture). The long story is as follows.

Need:

32" or 37" diagonal screen size

Advanced color calibration controls/ability to produce and hold the best possible color calibration

Better than 6-bit panel (color resolution is a huge thing for me)

Want:

1080p resolution

Deep, rich blacks

Ability to correct gamma (or at least, have it roughly correct out of the box)

No major ghosting issues

Ability to fully deactivate any motion interpolation/edge enhancement/other sorts of ill-advised processing garbage that seems to be endemic to modern displays

Don't Care at All About:

3D. However, I will consider a 3D capable set if it happens to also have better overall 2D performance than its 2D-only counterparts.

Panasonic was actually the first manufacturer I thought of, given their strong reputation for broadcast and cinema production monitors. But the reviews I read of both the DT30 and D30 series were generally very poor. Anyone have personal thoughts on the strengths/weaknesses of these?

Samsung was next in line, given their reputation for producing displays with deep, rich blacks. However, I'm a bit baffled trying to sort out the many variants they offer at each display size, especially when the higher end models often have questionable features I don't really desire (240 bajillion Hz refresh rates, for example). Are any of the Samsung

I could, perhaps, fit a 40" display in the space available, depending on the overall width of the device. If I bump up to 40" would my options increase substantially?

Finally, is there any decent resource on the web for discovering the actual technical specifications of these panels? In other words, not the marketing mumbo jumbo but actual numbers on color resolution, chroma sub sampling, panel type, etc. Really frustrating how effectively hidden this basic information is.

Samsung LN32D550: Low input lag, 4:4:4 capable, RGB pixel alignment, high contrast + deeper blacks, and this specific model is known to have low backlight bleed (CCFL backlight with full coverage, unlike Edge-lit LED). It also has networking and movie playback via USB. There's decent control over color via the TV menu as well. It does have a narrow viewing cone but as a PC monitor from 3-4ft away it won't be an issue and still better than any TN panel monitor. Here's the D550 owner's discussion thread for further research.

But otherwise one or two of the other recommendations posted here were good candidates as well imho. The LG LK450 with IPS would have slightly worse blacks, but great colors overall with good control over them via the TV menu, it will have wider viewing angles as well. The VA variant (panel lottery) will have different characteristics such as moderately better blacks and smaller viewing cone, and a few other minor differences. Here's the LG LK450 owner's discussion thread.

Also, here is a 4:4:4 TV discussion thread, it focuses primarily on using TV's as monitors and quality of text. And other random disussions on using TV's as monitors here and here.

Meant to also say that you'll probably want to figure out where you are willing to compromise, because every model will have something you'll wish to improve, so choose the poison that most suits your preferences. The three models we posted above should be placed high on anyone's TV monitor list, LK450 IPS + VA and LN32D550. These models all also have CCFL backlights which equals full backlight coverage and less likely to have backlight issues like clouding, flashlighting etc compared to cheaper Edge-lit LED varieties.

With the IPS LK450 you'll be sacrificing some blacks, but that's probably it.

With the VA LK450 you may not be sacrificing much at all, except minor minutia like slightly reduced viewing angles vs IPS etc, but it would have better contrast/blacks as a tradeoff.

With the Samsung, not sure how well it will handle gamma correction via it's own TV menu, and perhaps a little less control over color compared to the LK450 (i may be wrong here).

Then there are the high end, but less tested candidates, like the Sony EX720 for example. The best recommendation i can give is to purchase from a place with a lax return policy in case you run into problems, which excludes Sears and Newegg because of restocking fees + their overall return policies on TV's. Walmart, BestBuy, Costco and Amazon are better in this regard. Walmart offers 90 day returns and i think Costco either offers 1 year returns or adds another year on top of the warranty (?) i forget which.

Panasonic was actually the first manufacturer I thought of, given their strong reputation for broadcast and cinema production monitors. But the reviews I read of both the DT30 and D30 series were generally very poor. Anyone have personal thoughts on the strengths/weaknesses of these?

Samsung was next in line, given their reputation for producing displays with deep, rich blacks. However, I'm a bit baffled trying to sort out the many variants they offer at each display size, especially when the higher end models often have questionable features I don't really desire (240 bajillion Hz refresh rates, for example). Are any of the Samsung

I could, perhaps, fit a 40" display in the space available, depending on the overall width of the device. If I bump up to 40" would my options increase substantially?

Finally, is there any decent resource on the web for discovering the actual technical specifications of these panels? In other words, not the marketing mumbo jumbo but actual numbers on color resolution, chroma sub sampling, panel type, etc. Really frustrating how effectively hidden this basic information is.

The 40" size is much more available from more manufacturers and gets on sale a lot more I've noticed. The 37" size is much more rare in contrast. Often due to the sale prices a 40" in the same series can be found cheaper than the 37" in the same model series.

Samsung's excellent LNxxD550 series for example, has 32" 37" 40" and 46" sizes:
LN32D550, LN37D550, LN40D550, and LN46D550
I have the 32" but could have gone larger, but its for a secondary TV in another room.
I've found it has excellent black levels and picture quality, rivaling my main TV, a 46" 3-year old Panasonic plasma. Though the newer 2011 Panasonic plasmas now have even lower black levels - they are recommended if you can go with a 42" (the smallest plasma size)

More and more I'm leaning towards a 37" or 40" display, with 37" being more ideal for the viewing environment.

Searching for posts on the LG panel lottery yields many results. Is there a good, concise explanation of how to locate and identify the IPS versions of the 37" model? One advantage of being in NYC is that there are tons of retailers for me to visit (I sure ain't here for the smiles and reasonable rent).

Regarding the Samsung LNxxD550 series, people seem to sing the praise of the 32" model, do the 37" and 40" versions offer the same performance?

Finally, I have heard/read excellent things about the Samsung UNxxD6000. In particular, that it can be calibrated to a very accurate state, and offers lots of good calibration tools (like a blue only mode!). It is available in a 40" size. Any thoughts on the UN40D6000? (I'll check the owners thread, but can't hurt to ask here.)

For the LG LK450 series you will find these numbers on the outside box barcode, and the back of the TV if i'm not mistaken.

"CUSY" would mean it has an S-IPS panel inside.

"CUSD" would mean it has a VA panel inside.

Each version will have it's own minor drawbacks as posted earlier. Not taking panel lotteries into account, different sizes amongst the same model series, 32" 37" 40", will have the same performance and calibration options, the only difference being pixel and panel size. Here are some reviews for the Samsung D550, Samsung D6000, and LG LK450 (IPS version tested), but as with all reviews be sure to take their opinions with a grain of salt .

Finally, I have heard/read excellent things about the Samsung UNxxD6000. In particular, that it can be calibrated to a very accurate state, and offers lots of good calibration tools (like a blue only mode!).

FYI, the Samsung LNxxD550 models also have a blue only mode for easy calibration.

With the more expensive LED models like the UNxxD6000, unfortunately you risk getting flashlighting and clouding on dark/black areas of the image. I have none of that with the CCFL backlit LNxxD550 model for reference.
The more expensive models like the D6000 are good if you want the 120Hz+ refresh and interpolation features that can produce the soap-opera effect though.

Thanks Joxer, you answered my next question before I had a chance to write it.

Since you seem to know a thing or two about the Samsung panels, do you have an opinion on the LNxxD630? While the 40" size is a tight fit for my viewing environment, the supposedly better 24p pulldown is attractive. Price is definitely good, too. Has anyone had issues with 24P playback on the LNxxD550 series?

And thank you sjetski71 for info on the LK450 panel lottery. As of now, I'm slightly hesitant about the LG panel, partly because of the effort involved in finding an IPS model, and partly because of the poor black levels. As much as I fiend for good color, bad blacks really hurts perceived picture quality. Also, that faux wood trim is just unbelievable.

Thanks for the reply JoshZH, and for alerting my to the ghosting issues on the LNxxD550 series. Definitely something to ponder, as ghosting is one of those things that drives me a little nuts.

However, those videos don't seem to show a typical ghosting/trailing issue (which, granted is hard to assess via a youtube video). Rather, what seems to be happening is the dynamic backlighting overreacted to changes in contrast in the total scene. Especially in the Skyrim video, the terrain darkens noticeably when the camera pans up and suddenly that piece of terrain becomes the darkest part of the scene, which seemingly causes the display to adjust the backlight to make it look "blacker" (to use an invented term).

Either way, man is that really ugly. And can't be disabled, if I understand correctly? Is this true for all Samsung displays? If so, that's damn close to being an instant deal breaker for Sammy.

Samsung owners, please chime in here! Is the dynamic backlighting really a full time issue, noticeably in most sources? Or does the unusually high contrast characteristics of video games (especially those with aggressive HDR bloom effects) force an issue that wouldn't normally occur?

(PS, I am writing these posts while traveling, and will be able to assess these displays in person once I return to NYC later this will. I'll be sure to share my thoughts when I do.)

Hi audio/videoman - thanks for answering my question. Your feedback is actually really helpful, as it reveals a limitation of the LG display. But if I'm reading your remarks correctly, the limitations of the LG display don't apply to my viewing environment.

To elaborate: your complaints lead me to conclude that the LG xxLK450 deals very poorly with broadcast signals, whether terrestrial or satellite in their origination. However, those sources tend to exhibit both much higher compression (and especially, less intelligent compression using older codecs) and much lower overall resolution (even a "perfect" satellite signal doesn't come close to the resolution in actual TVL of a blu ray disc or a well constructed 720p/1080p source of the sorts I'm using).

In particular, your remark that the LG looked great with blu ray would seem to confirm this train of thought: that the LG display can produce excellent PQ when fed a correspondingly high quality source, but does little to assist any signal that's already been stepped on.

One final question for you, audio/videoman, when you say that the blu ray picture did not match the samsung, what exactly do you mean? Differences in colorimetry are to be expected, but are you referring to the potential brightness/contrast? Or something else entirely?

The LG was a major disappointment for me; given it's price and features, I was banking on it to be a homerun.

As far as being a 'fanboy,' I'm only a 'fanboy' of a high quailty picture. The brand name is not a consideration.

It would be helpful if you specified which LG model you're referring to, as those symptoms are not universal across the entire LG LCD family. For instance, I have the LG LD450 (last year's version of the LK450) and I am not experiencing #1, #2, #3, or #4 at all. The picture quality with OTA, fios hdtv, and directv hdtv all look decent to me; as compared against my Panasonic ST30 plasma and my now-defunct Sony XBR960 CRT (RIP )

No comment on #5 or #6 since I don't have personal experience with the Samsung D550.

I had high hopes for it: I didn't need it to match the picture quality of samsung, but it had to be close. I just wanted more connection options. I was very disappointed with both satellite and OTA picture quality, however. The noise level was just unacceptable on the tv station with the strongest signal; and the artifacts on satellite tv was just very disappointing.

The video noise was a very minor issue on that one station on the samsung; the satellite picture quality is stunning on the samsung.

I think what upset me was that the reviews for this particular LG were so numerous and so positive, I was certain I'd have at least a good, if not excellent experience with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thepoohcontinuum

It would be helpful if you specified which LG model you're referring to, as those symptoms are not universal across the entire LG LCD family. For instance, I have the LG LD450 (last year's version of the LK450) and I am not experiencing #1, #2, #3, or #4 at all. The picture quality with OTA, fios hdtv, and directv hdtv all look decent to me; as compared against my Panasonic ST30 plasma and my now-defunct Sony XBR960 CRT (RIP )

No comment on #5 or #6 since I don't have personal experience with the Samsung D550.

Yes, you are correct: the LG, when fed a perfect signal (blu ray), looked quite good. The main difference between it and the samsung is that the LG looked darker. This is with dynamic contrast on, the normal contrast setting near max, and the energy saving feature off. I was watching at night, too, with low artificial lighting. Basically, an ideal setting. The LG still could not match the contrast or brightness of the samsung.

By way of contrast, no pun intended, the samsung display looks bright and has excellent contrast even with settings dialed down to the medium range.

As far as the satellite source signal, it is basically a perfect signal -- it looks very, very, very good on the samsung. Not quite as good as the very best blu ray sources, but still, I'd say it's impressive.

On the LG, satellite tv is noisy and the picture ridden with artifacts.

I've said this before several times, but the ongoing popularity of the LG set just baffles me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by grizzledyoungman

Hi audio/videoman - thanks for answering my question. Your feedback is actually really helpful, as it reveals a limitation of the LG display. But if I'm reading your remarks correctly, the limitations of the LG display don't apply to my viewing environment.

To elaborate: your complaints lead me to conclude that the LG xxLK450 deals very poorly with broadcast signals, whether terrestrial or satellite in their origination. However, those sources tend to exhibit both much higher compression (and especially, less intelligent compression using older codecs) and much lower overall resolution (even a "perfect" satellite signal doesn't come close to the resolution in actual TVL of a blu ray disc or a well constructed 720p/1080p source of the sorts I'm using).

In particular, your remark that the LG looked great with blu ray would seem to confirm this train of thought: that the LG display can produce excellent PQ when fed a correspondingly high quality source, but does little to assist any signal that's already been stepped on.

One final question for you, audio/videoman, when you say that the blu ray picture did not match the samsung, what exactly do you mean? Differences in colorimetry are to be expected, but are you referring to the potential brightness/contrast? Or something else entirely?

The LG was a major disappointment for me; given it's price and features, I was banking on it to be a homerun.

As far as being a 'fanboy,' I'm only a 'fanboy' of a high quailty picture. The brand name is not a consideration.

I don't have these issues on my 42LK450 with the S-IPS panel. Also, if the image is dim you raise the backlight, not contrast.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thepoohcontinuum

It would be helpful if you specified which LG model you're referring to, as those symptoms are not universal across the entire LG LCD family. For instance, I have the LG LD450 (last year's version of the LK450) and I am not experiencing #1, #2, #3, or #4 at all. The picture quality with OTA, fios hdtv, and directv hdtv all look decent to me; as compared against my Panasonic ST30 plasma and my now-defunct Sony XBR960 CRT (RIP )

No comment on #5 or #6 since I don't have personal experience with the Samsung D550.

+1, not all LK450's are the same, panel version and build date seem to make significant differences.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joxer

I haven't noticed any ghosting on my Samsung LNxxD550 model.
And you can disable dynamic contrast effects by setting it to "OFF" and also setting the shadow detail to +2

Check out the LNxxD550 thread for more info.

Doing that minimizes the dimming but it will still happen on blank screens and whenever the image fades to black.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjetski71

I suspect that some of the rosy opinions you were hearing in the past were from PC monitor users. Most opinions about the LK450 in this thread are coming in from this angle.

And for the OP's reference, did you have the VA or IPS version of the 42LK450? (didn't notice it mentioned)

I have the IPS version and use my TV for Blu-ray, HD gaming on consoles, and comcast cable hdtv programming.

Yes, you are correct: the LG, when fed a perfect signal (blu ray), looked quite good. The main difference between it and the samsung is that the LG looked darker. This is with dynamic contrast on, the normal contrast setting near max, and the energy saving feature off. I was watching at night, too, with low artificial lighting. Basically, an ideal setting. The LG still could not match the contrast or brightness of the samsung.

By way of contrast, no pun intended, the samsung display looks bright and has excellent contrast even with settings dialed down to the medium range.

As far as the satellite source signal, it is basically a perfect signal -- it looks very, very, very good on the samsung. Not quite as good as the very best blu ray sources, but still, I'd say it's impressive.

On the LG, satellite tv is noisy and the picture ridden with artifacts.

I've said this before several times, but the ongoing popularity of the LG set just baffles me.

You are likely using the wrong picture settings, which would exaggerate flaws in the picture due to excessive compression and lower than expected resolution from the satellite TV source. Try Expert mode with all advanced settings (picture enhancements) off.

Question: does anyone have any experience with the 37LV3500 (LG's 37 inch LED-backlit offering)? How is the color accuracy and overall picture quality? Reviews are hard to come by for this particular model line on the web.

While the 37LK450 sounds damn near ideal, I'm seriously discouraged by that crappy faux wood trim. Just foul.

Question: does anyone have any experience with the 37LV3500 (LG's 37 inch LED-backlit offering)? How is the color accuracy and overall picture quality? Reviews are hard to come by for this particular model line on the web.

While the 37LK450 sounds damn near ideal, I'm seriously discouraged by that crappy faux wood trim. Just foul.

The 37LV3500 is virtually untested, especially for PC monitor use. We have no idea if it is capable of 4:4:4 chroma (as most TV's aren't), nor do we know about it's input lag (most TV's have high input lag). We have no idea how even the backlighting is (most Edge-lit sets are uneven). We do not know how much the Edge-lit backlight will affect color accuracy (because LED can affect it negatively).

Playing the historical odds, the odds aren't exactly in it's favor for PC monitor use, though being a 60hz LG set improves those odds a bit imho due to LG's halfway decent track record in this regard.

I'm sure there are tasteful ways of covering up the faux wood trim if it bothers you that much .

And as mentioned prior, definitely purchase your TV from a place that offers easy returns and exchanges, because there's a decent chance you won't like your first choice for whatever reason(s). As someone who's been tracking TV-monitors for a few years now, i've seen it happen often.

Quote:

Originally Posted by audio/videoman

I've said this before several times, but the ongoing popularity of the LG set just baffles me.