Wow, A Freeper Sees The Light: "I just can't handle it anymore."

While I've been a FReeper for well over a decade, I must declare that it is time to part ways. While I have the greatest respect for a great many of you, the days where I can in good conscience remain silent about the issues that set me apart from the rest of FReeperdom have past. For clarity, or perhaps catharsis, I'm not entirely certain which, I'll lay them out on the table an call the ZOT™ down upon myself.

The racism: I just can't handle it anymore. FR has become increasingly racist since President Obama took office, and enforcement has dropped. Now, not a single crime can be reported with an "amish" comment, and I've yet to see a post express embarrassment or shame when lo and behold sometimes the perpetrators turned out to be lily white.

Homosexuality: FR is on the wrong side of history on this one, and I'll just leave it at that.

Mostly though, it's the hate. More and more posts reference violent solutions to political disagreements. Some subtly couched, others make no pretense. I wouldn't be surprised at all if I read in the morning paper that a FReeper murdered a federal bureaucrat or a federal judge.

I've learned so much, from so many of you, and for that I'm grateful. I genuinely and truly wish all of you well, and sincerely hope you all live out the rest of your lives in happiness.

18. Yeah, I guess things were probably a little less racist pre-Obama.

42. Really they've cranked it up several notches over the last 4 years.

I am surprised that it took this long for this one to "see the light." I've followed that site for years and I think they've run off everyone who can form a cohesive argument (or a sentence more than three words, for that matter).

39. Repugs only change when their own personal circumstances change

And sometimes that's still not enough to change their minds. Maybe that poster is now the grandparent or aunt/uncle of an interracial child and the cognitive dissonance (which was absent before) finally kicked in.

15. Maybe some weird reasoning like:

Amish are mostly white, Amish have low incidences of violence, so in their fucked up minds maybe that's their proof that being white makes you less violent?

Remember these are folks who worship this:

In proving that their is a God, "See, the water, the tide comes in and it goes out, Mr. Silverman. It always comes in, and always goes out. You can't explain that. ", was a rational and logical argument.

88. Wow! I wish I hadn't read that.

89. It's like Stormfront over there

Keep in mind these are mainstream Republicans. The kind you would see at a Romney rally. I've visited FR occasionally over the years, but I don't remember them being this racist. Clearly Obama's election has brought it out for the world to see.

90. As I suspected:

To: oh8eleven
Hmmm, Amish at it again?
Why must we resort to euphemisms here on FREE Republic? The codeword Amish means black and everyone who's been here for more than a day knows it. Really, can we not call a spade a spade? This site stands for freedom, liberty and doesn't need to hide behind a thin veneer of political correctness. This isn't directed at you, oh8eleven, since the practice is widespread. Instead, I'd like to see a plain, honest treatment of these riots and crimes. In this case, as with many other, the initiators are black, not Amish, Mennonites, British, Germans, Irish, Slavs, Swedes or any number of other races/ethnic categories.

The "document to which we may not link" here on FR makes it clear that blacks commit these and other crimes in numbers far exceeding their percentage of the population. The "Amish" phraseology was slightly amusing at one time. But, in my opinion, a forthright identification of the problem is in order. I, for one, will use the word black when applicable to incidents such as these. And when it's whites committing such acts, they likewise will be called out in my posts.

13 posted on January 10, 2013, 4:03:40 PM PST by re_nortex (DP...that's what I like about Texas.)

48. I was curious about that, too.

I did a search on FR and noticed it is frequently a tag. Some of the threads tagged "amish" we're actually about the Amish but most had nothing to do with them. For example, a thread about "Ebonics" (ugh) was tagged "Amish."

On the second page of that opus thread, a freeper gives this explanation...

“amish” comment

The amish comment was once directed at the crimes or abominations perpetrated by muslims in the name of allah.

Mainly because the press would never name the religion, or name, of the perp.

49. Where is the "unbridled hate" on this thread? n/t

54. "Unbridled hate" may be a bit strong

but there is little in the way of kindness. I think that's what was meant by the comment and I agree. Any FReeper who manages to break away from the cult of ignorance deserves a pat on the back and congratulations, not condemnation.

5. That's fine. He can post the *exact same stuff* he always posted on FR right here, and just

claim to be an "ex-freeper". Then, even when his hate-posts are uncovered later, it will be the people who complain that have a problem--the "ex" freeper being defended by several of our leading "troll hunters" and all.

77. Banned. Think "blue bolt from the Heavens...

13. The intolerance here at DU is no better, it's just a different flavor.

How do I hate thee? Let me count the ways.

Well, we cannot use Elizabeth Barrett Browning's classic poem of total devotion to build this parody because it has multiple references to God, faith, saints, and the afterlife (she is clearly a sheep, a clown, an idiot). Her spoken devotion to Robert Browning would probably get her scorned at DU for being weak (being a white male at DU is not a good place to be -- we enable rapists, our birthright justifiably makes us akin to the devil, and we are the cause of most bad things).

35. So, their hate is worse than our hate? Okay. Maybe that makes us feel better.

37. I've never tried to stop a black guy from voting.

Nor have I ever told some one they're going to hell, nor have I ever laughed when a gay man got beaten for being gay. I've never asserted that poor people get what they deserve because they've done something to anger God. I've never posted links to reskinned versions of Doom where you shoot illegal immigrants.

So, yeah, I think I'm better than them, and I'll be sure to do a little dance the day those shitheads can't afford to feed the hamster that powers that dump. I'll feel real nice about it.

125. from Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States, Chapter 10, TTE, essentially about

the 19th century in the USA: how class conflict created out of economic advantages encoded into the creation of corporations and banking, and also into the nature of contract law, resulted in a middle-class that served and protected that whole structure, even though slavery and bonded servitude were NOT unknown in the North (where most recent immigrants were treated just a hair less badly than those of African descent), which development of the middle-class resulted in political parties being developed, which political parties hid the class conflict behind other issues, and turned the lowest class, which was a majority of the South's aristocratic culture, against itself especially through racism.

I have always heard allusions to the economic issues that drove President Lincoln and I understand the recent Daniel Day Lewis movie about Lincoln (which I haven't seen yet) includes this in terms of how the union was/is primarily an economic entity with slavery & bonded servitude crossing all state-lines and that fact served that (class based) economic entity. None of which was actually remedied by the Reconstruction, which actually further exacerbated the conditions, social & economic injustice, that caused the Civil War in the first place.

I suppose some people do see that all as more of a chicken-or-the-egg question, but I agree with Howard Zinn in that it isn't a chicken-or-the-egg question. The basic drivers of everything about the USA are economic and other stuff is used to obscure and distract from that fact.

27. Martydom. I suppose your post is an example of DU's tolerance.

Your lack of awareness of clear and unmistakable anti-white male attitudes here does not mean they don't exist. I suppose you are also unaware of a cluster of Christian hating DUers as well? Or anti-semites? I am neither Christian nor Jewish, so there goes your martyrdom bullshit.

Now, spend a few minutes and construct another demonstration of your ignorance. Can't wait.

64. I completely disagree with you but why don't you share some examples?

66. Sure!

1. Fierce anti-Christian groups here at DU that express hatred toward Christians. (Actually, they hate all religions; there are simply more Christian targets here)
2. Anti-semitism.
3. No tolerance for differences of opinion about gay rights (which I fully support).
4. Totally, unbending despise and intolerance of the right wing. We have people here who will not eat at the same table as a conservative.

There's quite a list I haven't tackled.

Oddly enough, I would also suggest that our gun fanatics are every bit as abusive as the Freepers.

73. I agree we don't have tolerance for intolerance about gays

While there may be two sides to every issue, one side can be completely wrong. Which is the case for people fighting the tide of history when it comes to gay civil rights.

I'll give you a point on the gun issue. I don't know if we'll ever be able to reach a middle ground on that one. I got pretty emotional about it on the day Newtown happened and didn't have much tolerance for gun extremism. Still don't, but I try to be civil about it.

106. I really don't understand where you are taking this.

If I came out advocating some position that DU collectively finds abhorrent, I would be flamed endlessly until being mercifully expunged. I do not justify taking positions counter to everything DU stands for nor am I harping against the treatment of those who do.

109. I was trying to understand why you think it was a good example.

Marriage, be it heterosexual, interracial or between people of the same gender is a union between consenting adults, and is a basic human right IMHO. I cannot see a justification for any difference in opinion on this matter.

One might be against marriage for everyone, and in favour of civil unions only. I was trying to figure if you hold a similar belief. Don't see anything wrong with this belief.

One might be against allowing people of the same gender to marry because of their religious beliefs.
That's bigotry and religion is no excuse for it. These people rightfully will have their arse kicked here on DU and should be PPRed on the spot.

On the other hand I would like to know why you think that intolerance of bigotry is equivalent of hatred expressed by denizens of FR against various issues they find abhorrent.

119. You leftt out: constructing rational hypotheses for NDAA 2011 and/or the use of drones & that

would be hypotheses other than Obama is an evil man doing the bidding of other evil men. Obama lies all of the time about everything having to do with the NDAA & drones and everything that anyone else says about any of that, including dictators on the other side of the world, is the whole truth and nothing but the truth all of the time.

And, NO, I refuse to change my avatar here, BECAUSE I HAVE thought all of this through as fully and honestly as I can, so I feel like it's okay for me to call on others to do the same, but . . . .

DO watch out if you make that effort around Hedges & Greenwald's rabid internet critters.

116. Perhaps that is because we all "agree" about LGBT Civil Rights, so other issues are being used as

121. I think it is similar in that it functions primarily on auto-dichotomies that may or may not

be true (think of what a horror it is around here to talk about "third" ((as in dialectical)) anything!!) & it appears to resist analyses of those dichotomous oversimplifications, which IS understandable, except that resistance repeats some very specific kinds of insults that cast ALL other positions in the diminutive role and, hence, fail to address them objectively, all of which reeeeeeeks of authoritarian fundamentalism.

I think there are people who do this sort of thing on purpose and others who also just get pulled into it and then still others who won't engage at all, or run from it, because they don't want to get used by other actors in a milieu.

127. Oh! I know I do it too! . . . partly because I'm so good at it that it "feels good", partly because

I really am just offering kind of a rough-edged jest, and partly because there IS crap going on around here and I very much do not like the possibility of being USED by crap-mongers of ANY stripe.

I don't do the mean stuff very often, but, like you, I have this expectation of vitriol and that frustrates me, because I'm usually just trying to figure things out, so it isn't really necessary for some to just attack and insult, first thing, right off, without ANY questions, since I'm frequently just exploring anyway. And even if it isn't exploring and I do hold a specific position in, of, and for itself, I do not deny almost anyone else, with certain exceptions for hate and violence, the right to do the same. In fact, I think my right is predicated on their right and their right is predicated on mine, problem is we almost never get that clear with one another in this environment.

Thanks for your honest and rational input and for your "ear", Politicub!

61. So are you saying that we should value racists, misogynists, & homophobes? In essence, to

tolerate intolerance? I'm sorry, but I can't do that. If fighting against hatred is wrong, what are we supposed to do? I'm also sorry you feel persecuted for being a White male--seriously. You can't help that any more than I can help being born an Ojibway woman. I can't believe you actually think the hatred spewed over there is legitimate, or am I misreading you?

141. Correct.

14. Yes, it took him a long time, but ...

... once someone had made up their mind, it's infinitely more difficult to get them to see another side than it is if they have no opinion. This is why it's a waste of breath to try to reason with Fox sheeple.

He should be commended for his catharsis; it's likely he will more frequently question his opinions in the future.

25. so their stupidity can't completely crush all remnants of consciense from people with brains

Editor's note: Steve Kozachik is vice mayor and a member of the Tucson City Council

But on the periphery of my buyback, and on the periphery of rational discourse, was a group of gun and NRA enthusiasts holding a "cash for guns" firearms flea market. They held it on the boundary of the police department parking lot in which my buyback was taking place.

In Arizona, it is legal for a person to walk up to another on a street corner, hand him cash for a firearm and simply walk off with it, with no need for a background check into his psychological or criminal history. That was exactly what happened with those who came to my buyback to "score some deals" on weapons by outbidding the gift cards I was offering.

I was a Republican at the time, but less than one week after the buyback, I chose to switch parties. I believe there is a centrist element among the rank and file in the GOP, but the leadership is led by the far right and openly beholden to the NRA and the gun lobby. It is that rigid ideology that is driving the party into irrelevancy. The overreaction to the gun buyback made it clear that, in Tucson at least, the Republican Party is out of touch with the values of the community.

30. It takes a special deranged person IMO to survive in that sea of negativity, hostility and

31. So I went swimming into the darkness, and all I can say is... "Wow"

>>FYI, the concept of “racism”, which you should well know did not exist 150 years ago, and had to be invented, and it’s not something like a lightbulb that had to be invented, that concept is said to have been invented by none other than Leon Trotsky. It’s caught on, achieved its propagandistic purposes to the point where you and the Communists can sing Kumbaya together about it, even though it is something doesn’t exist, just like, say, global warming. Look up ethnocentrism, and tell us in what human culture, at what point in history, it did not appear.

Good luck in the church of anti-Racism!>>

>>I have to laugh at this, given what the other side has done to George Zimmerman down in Florida. And I bet nary a beep from you huh
Don’t forget, Melas, these were the same open minded types who gave a standing ovation to the Simpson verdict
Oh yeah, and then there’s that other “protected class” who only started the spread of a deadly disease amongst millions around world, which includes infants, children, hemophiliacs, wives, medical personnel . .well, you get that picture surely>>

>>i don’t remember a racist elected as President in my lifetime, until 2008 and reelected in 2012.
he’s declared open WAR upon his own American citizens.>>

I can go no deeper.
Need a deep tissue scrub, and to sanitize my computer...

80. Salud!

34. Someone quoted his profile in the comments. I like it.

Profile: “ My first allegiance is to the truth, not ideology or politics. If the truth was that Joseph Stalin was kind to kittens, I would not let a lie to the contrary stand just because he was Joseph Stalin. If Abraham Lincoln fried ants with a magnifying glass, I would not suppress the truth because he was Abraham Lincoln. Reputations, legacies, causes, ideologies and religions all have to stand in the light of the facts. Anyone who would play fast and loose with the truth in the name of any of the above is not to be trusted.”

47. fascinating...

36. Every time I think of Freepers & Obama

I keep being reminded of that scene from "Lethal Weapon 2" where Joe Pesci goes into the South African embassy and asks the man at the desk to dissuade his friend from emigrating to South Africa. The man, assuming Pesci's friend is also white like Pesci, assures him that it's perfectly fine to emigrate to South Africa - only it's revealed the friend is Danny Glover... and, the South African man is obviously stunned and starts stumbling and goes, "but, but, you're blek." (And, then Glover starts a righteous rant about "one man, one vote" and Pesci repeats that, and it ends with Glover & Pesci being tossed out by security as they say, "Free South Africa you dumb son of a bitch!" to a cheering crowd of protestors.)

I keep thinking of Freepers and Obama and that South African guy going "but, but he's blek" about Obama instead of Danny Glover, and just still being stunned that we have a president that's not 100% white male, and that he got re-elected.

76. Everyone should click over to the Freeper thread linked in the OP and read the responses.

There you'll see the base of the Republican Party undisguised, unfiltered, and honest, and the very people the Republican Party leadership both rely on for loyal votes and despise at the same time for their deeply ignorant and hysterical nature.

132. You didn't know? Trotsky DID invent racism

128. I would love to know what the tipping point was...

I was a moderate. That changed after Obama was elected the first time and I saw all the racists crawl out of the woodwork. So, I have run as far left as I possibly can. No more middle ground for me, supporting civil unions rather than gay marriage. Being for choice yet believing abortion should be more regulated, done with that. Being fiscally conservative, done with that too, when I found out that what they really mean is more bombs but, less bread for children. So, anyway I wonder if the tipping point was similar to mine.