There is no way JB should get a 5 year contract with Macca (or a tacit guarantee that he will finish his career with Macca) .... there are too many good young drivers out there who will be coming into their own during this period for Macca to lock up either seat on a long term basis.

If this happens, it will prove what the LH ultras have been saying over in the Vs thread... Whitmarsh is filled with an irrational and unhealthy man-love for JB.

There is no way JB should get a 5 year contract with Macca (or a tacit guarantee that he will finish his career with Macca) .... there are too many good young drivers out there who will be coming into their own during this period for Macca to lock up either seat on a long term basis.

If this happens, it will prove what the LH ultras have been saying over in the Vs thread... Whitmarsh is filled with an irrational and unhealthy man-love for JB.

Who else is available? You have to assume Hamilton will be at McLaren for at least the next 5 years. Button therefore is the perfect teammate. Fast enough to beat Hamilton on occassion, fast enough to pick up the pieces when Hamilton isn't at the front and not ego driven to the extent he will throw a flakey whenever Hamilton is faster. Apart from Vettel and Alonso, and maybe Rosberg, I don't see anyone on the grid that I would push Button out of the team for.

Who else is available? You have to assume Hamilton will be at McLaren for at least the next 5 years. Button therefore is the perfect teammate. Fast enough to beat Hamilton on occassion, fast enough to pick up the pieces when Hamilton isn't at the front and not ego driven to the extent he will throw a flakey whenever Hamilton is faster. Apart from Vettel and Alonso, and maybe Rosberg, I don't see anyone on the grid that I would push Button out of the team for.

Macca makes the car and has the infrastructure, the drivers need them more than they need the drivers... no driver should get a 5 year contract ... and defo not JB. Where were SV, RK, LH, NR etc 4 or 5 years ago... who knows what the next few years will bring.

Macca makes the car and has the infrastructure, the drivers need them more than they need the drivers... no driver should get a 5 year contract ... and defo not JB. Where were SV, RK, LH, NR etc 4 or 5 years ago... who knows what the next few years will bring.

They have two seats, so what's the problem? In Button, they have a guy who can win the WDC as their #1 if they want to bring in a young driver, or can be a point scoring machine for the WCC if they have another championship contender in the other car. I think Button is perfect for McLaren, so why not seal the deal?

There is no way JB should get a 5 year contract with Macca (or a tacit guarantee that he will finish his career with Macca) .... there are too many good young drivers out there who will be coming into their own during this period for Macca to lock up either seat on a long term basis.

If this happens, it will prove what the LH ultras have been saying over in the Vs thread... Whitmarsh is filled with an irrational and unhealthy man-love for JB.

So what kind of love will Whitmarsh have for LH if he signs him for more than 5 years?

Right now, Whitmarsh is suffering from Nick Fry syndrome. He is also doing his best to slow down Hamilton, so Button can catch up. I have never seen where a team makes every effort to placate their slower driver at the expense of the much faster and reliable one.

They have two seats, so what's the problem? In Button, they have a guy who can win the WDC as their #1 if they want to bring in a young driver, or can be a point scoring machine for the WCC if they have another championship contender in the other car. I think Button is perfect for McLaren, so why not seal the deal?

There is no way JB should get a 5 year contract with Macca (or a tacit guarantee that he will finish his career with Macca) .... there are too many good young drivers out there who will be coming into their own during this period for Macca to lock up either seat on a long term basis.

If this happens, it will prove what the LH ultras have been saying over in the Vs thread... Whitmarsh is filled with an irrational and unhealthy man-love for JB.

IMO Lewis will consider very well if he should sign such a long term contractbut for Button it comes directly from heaven, he can comfortably cruise on Lewis back to his career end, with this contractIs this good for both drivers motivation?IF Button can't beat Lewis over the next 2 years...

welll.... it is a bit pointless to say that Jenson's seat should be given to a younger driver who maybe a WDC material. the reason is that mclaren already has one - lewis hamilton( this assuming that jenson isn't one. though i think he is wdc material but lets consider the worst case here). and Jenson perfectly compliments him as a teammate(as explained earlier by many people here). and if LH decides to leave macca (assuming), then we will have one seat vacant for the so called younger driver anyways. and till that driver acclimatises with macca, jenson will be the perfect man to keep macca competitive. so imo, mclaren shud sign him for another 5 yrs.

and frankly, we need to have at least one gentleman in the sports. and he also makes LH look good. not in terms of racing but as a person, but thats just my thought. i have to say i don't hate lewis anymore. still indifferent to him though but i guess its a positive step. i guess what i m trying to say is... LH and JB are the perfect team mates on the grid right now( thats just my opinion).

" Lewis Hamilton is a topic for the team to consider for next season, and the team would have to keep Hamilton in mind "

" Definitely with his aggression and his speed, Hamilton always be a topic. Our philosophy is to have the quickest drivers together in our team "Maybe Red Bull is one front running team that sometime, may just consider try and hire Lewis!

As a Lewis Hamilton fan i sayMy respect for Jenson as a driver has gone up during the last year, and most of what your saying is quite frankly nothing but false conjecture and bullsh*t to anyone who has actually watched this year and last.

Seconded. Jenson impressed me more last year than he did the year he won his WDC, he was paired with the best driver on the track and was almost always competitive against him.

If Jenson was a slouch Hamilton would have destroyed him, as it was he finished quite close in the final standings.

Who else is available? You have to assume Hamilton will be at McLaren for at least the next 5 years. Button therefore is the perfect teammate. Fast enough to beat Hamilton on occassion, fast enough to pick up the pieces when Hamilton isn't at the front and not ego driven to the extent he will throw a flakey whenever Hamilton is faster. Apart from Vettel and Alonso, and maybe Rosberg, I don't see anyone on the grid that I would push Button out of the team for.

Exactly, Button has a fantastic and underrated quality: he can handle being slower than Hamilton - I can't currently see a good alternative that will be as competitive and egoless as Jenson.

Seconded. Jenson impressed me more last year than he did the year he won his WDC, he was paired with the best driver on the track and was almost always competitive against him.

If Jenson was a slouch Hamilton would have destroyed him, as it was he finished quite close in the final standings.

Exactly! You may find someone better than Jenson- like Alonso... but well, usually they have bigger egos that'll cause problems. Most likely a less talented driver can be found- like poor Heikki- but for what?! There is a chance you find someone with about the same amount of talent as Jenson has- but he is already a WDC he's not about to destroy the team harmony to prove his worth (Webber come to my mind, though maybe I'm mistaken).

Frankly I do not mind if the second Macca driver is not a slave to Lewis. If Lewis is that good I think he is, he must manage on his own. It's enough if the teammate doesn't start hysterics, cause investigations against the team, doesn't destroy the car (or Lewis' car), motivates Lewis enough and collects valuable points.

But I'd be careful also with Jenson: he's already achieved the big goal, he is a WDC, it is very hard to motivate him if he signs a very long term contract.

Jense and Hammy make a great team. I'd like to see them in different teams though, personally, I think a lot of Brits would find it easier to support both of them then. Not gonna happen but I'd be pretty interested in JB at Ferrari...

Totally disagree on the first part. No one, and I mean no one, could rate Damon Hill or Jacques Villeneuve as one of the best drivers in F1 history although both have a WDC. Damon Hill was not far off a second a lap slower than Senna in their couple of races together, which more or less ends that argument, while Villeneuve very nearly lost the title to Schumacher, despite having the best car in 1997.

Your second point is correct, the RBR and Ferrari of 2002-4 were at least as good as the Brawn. There is not a single driver out there who can win a title without a good car, but that's not the same thing as saying everyone who gets a good car is automatically a great driver.

To be honest, I don't rate Hill or Villeneuve much lower than Kimi for example and yes, for me they are at least at level with some greats that never won WDC. So, you see - its false that no one can rate them as top drivers

Seconded. Jenson impressed me more last year than he did the year he won his WDC, he was paired with the best driver on the track and was almost always competitive against him.

If Jenson was a slouch Hamilton would have destroyed him, as it was he finished quite close in the final standings.

Now this is something I don't understand. Guy had best strike ever produced in 2009., and yet losing to Hamilton was more impressive? Either you rate Hamilton REAL HIGH (like, best ever) or you think that winning a WDC title is easy.

Now this is something I don't understand. Guy had best strike ever produced in 2009., and yet losing to Hamilton was more impressive? Either you rate Hamilton REAL HIGH (like, best ever) or you think that winning a WDC title is easy.

Jenson showed how difficult winning a wdc is from Silverstone on, when he tightened up and struggled to beat Rubens Barrichello. The first 7 races were a top-8 driver in a dominant car.

Now this is something I don't understand. Guy had best strike ever produced in 2009., and yet losing to Hamilton was more impressive? Either you rate Hamilton REAL HIGH (like, best ever) or you think that winning a WDC title is easy.

I'm not criticising or downplaying Buttons achievements at Brawn - but at McLaren he was paired with the best driver currently in F1 (so yeah, REAL HIGH) in a non-dominant car. It's very easy for people to attribute his success in '09 to the fact he had the best car on the grid, the same can't be said for 2010. Last year Button prove that he can not only qualify and race close to Hamiltons pace but he can beat him on occasion too, he also cemented his reputation for robotic consistency.

As drivers have always said, if you understand when another driver is simply quicker then its easier to deal with than if you think you think you are as quick.

Jenson know's he is not as quick as Lewis, and that is what is keeping them so close. In the opposite situation Jenson might have felt the need to change his style in an attempt to find that missing speed Lewis obviously has. Instead, Jenson has embraced the fact Lewis is in the top 3 of the quickest drivers currently, and has accepted he will not always beat him but knows he can be close.

Alonso on the other hand could not come to accept a rookie was as quick as him and that cost him the title, and maybe Lewis too.

I dont think many would disagree with that statement?

For that reason, I would love to see a Vettel-Lewis pairing because those are the two drivers I believe are quickest for raw pace. Lewis was fine with Alonso, but would he be fine with Vettel? Would Vettel be okay knowing Lewis was at least as quick? We saw last year some shades of Vettel lacking composure... that would be tested against a team mate who is always there. Not a team mate who is there occasionally ala Mark Webber.

As drivers have always said, if you understand when another driver is simply quicker then its easier to deal with than if you think you think you are as quick.

Jenson know's he is not as quick as Lewis, and that is what is keeping them so close. In the opposite situation Jenson might have felt the need to change his style in an attempt to find that missing speed Lewis obviously has. Instead, Jenson has embraced the fact Lewis is in the top 3 of the quickest drivers currently, and has accepted he will not always beat him but knows he can be close.

Alonso on the other hand could not come to accept a rookie was as quick as him and that cost him the title, and maybe Lewis too.

I dont think many would disagree with that statement?

For that reason, I would love to see a Vettel-Lewis pairing because those are the two drivers I believe are quickest for raw pace. Lewis was fine with Alonso, but would he be fine with Vettel? Would Vettel be okay knowing Lewis was at least as quick? We saw last year some shades of Vettel lacking composure... that would be tested against a team mate who is always there. Not a team mate who is there occasionally ala Mark Webber.

I completely agree with you, Button is keeping him close to Hamilton by playing to his strengths. About Vettel and Hamilton, I've always got the impression that Hamilton would be the cooler head in that sistuation but who knows until it happens for real, if ever, how someone will react.

I must say my respect for Button is more after last season, I always thought if he was in the same car as Hamilton then Lewis would rip him to shreds. This didn't happen and Button was very close to Hamilton on many occasions. Personally I think McLaren have the best pairing of any team in the sport atm, I would be very happy to keep Button at McLaren for the next 4/5 years then possibly bring Rosberg in?

I still don't see how people can say Button isn't in the 'best in f1 category' then in the same breath say Vettel is? They have both achieved the same thing in the sport, winning 1 race in a car off the pace and winning a WDC in an utterly dominant car (RBR was more last year so than the Brawn in 2009). Please enlighten me?

I must say my respect for Button is more after last season, I always thought if he was in the same car as Hamilton then Lewis would rip him to shreds. This didn't happen and Button was very close to Hamilton on many occasions. Personally I think McLaren have the best pairing of any team in the sport atm, I would be very happy to keep Button at McLaren for the next 4/5 years then possibly bring Rosberg in?

I still don't see how people can say Button isn't in the 'best in f1 category' then in the same breath say Vettel is? They have both achieved the same thing in the sport, winning 1 race in a car off the pace and winning a WDC in an utterly dominant car (RBR was more last year so than the Brawn in 2009). Please enlighten me?

Because the Brawn was far more dominant in the first 7 races (McLaren and Ferrari no where to be seen) than Red Bull ever was last year. Vettel always had his team mate running him very close as well as McLaren and Ferrari. Jenson had a team-mate in rotten form struggling with a car that did not suit him, unlike him who it suited perfectly. Vettel never had as easy a run as Button did in the first 7 races, and never will.

Vettel is clearly a beast under pressure, as shown time and time again in qualifying. Jenson has shown time and time again to be shaky under pressure.

Button has far more experience, and this shows in his cool attitude and racing. However, when Vettel is 30, then compare the two of them and I bet there will be no comparison.

I must say my respect for Button is more after last season, I always thought if he was in the same car as Hamilton then Lewis would rip him to shreds. This didn't happen and Button was very close to Hamilton on many occasions. Personally I think McLaren have the best pairing of any team in the sport atm, I would be very happy to keep Button at McLaren for the next 4/5 years then possibly bring Rosberg in?

I still don't see how people can say Button isn't in the 'best in f1 category' then in the same breath say Vettel is? They have both achieved the same thing in the sport, winning 1 race in a car off the pace and winning a WDC in an utterly dominant car (RBR was more last year so than the Brawn in 2009). Please enlighten me?

Martin Whitmarsh is a far better manager than Ron Dennis. It was he who signed Button based on his assessment [correctly it i sevident] that each driver has oppositte strengths and weaknesses. And the closeness between the two have been self-evident from the start.

Jenson led the beginning of the Chinese Grand Prix although Lewis led briefly but luckily when it counted, at the flag.

The McLaren team is different to when Dennis was principle. It is calmer, free of antagonism and favoritism. Also, if Dennis had still been the racing chief, not likely that Button would have signed. The good as possible relations between the two drivers and results of 2010 would never have been possible. This is Martin Whitmarsh's governship.

As drivers have always said, if you understand when another driver is simply quicker then its easier to deal with than if you think you think you are as quick.

Jenson know's he is not as quick as Lewis, and that is what is keeping them so close. In the opposite situation Jenson might have felt the need to change his style in an attempt to find that missing speed Lewis obviously has. Instead, Jenson has embraced the fact Lewis is in the top 3 of the quickest drivers currently, and has accepted he will not always beat him but knows he can be close.

Alonso on the other hand could not come to accept a rookie was as quick as him and that cost him the title, and maybe Lewis too.

I dont think many would disagree with that statement?

For that reason, I would love to see a Vettel-Lewis pairing because those are the two drivers I believe are quickest for raw pace. Lewis was fine with Alonso, but would he be fine with Vettel? Would Vettel be okay knowing Lewis was at least as quick? We saw last year some shades of Vettel lacking composure... that would be tested against a team mate who is always there. Not a team mate who is there occasionally ala Mark Webber.

Ron Dennis was the reason why McLaren lost the title in 2007.

Quickest when in a race or in qualifying? Jenson generally is doing MORE quick laps than Hamilton during a race. Button is a remarkable RACE driver and his speed through slow and medium-speed corners is exceptional. Nigel Roebauck some time ago wrote about this. This why Jenson may start further back but ends up in the front bunch. This ability won him his title. Any of the god drivers can win when a car is dominant but it is the ability aside from that that distinguishes.

To exclude Alonso as one of the THREE quickest driver is just ludicrous. He is a double champion CONSECUTIVELY and Hmilton is yet to win as many races as Alonso has done in a single year. Vettel trumps them both with 10 poles in a season and right now remains the quickest driver in f1. Vettel reminds me of Jim Clark.

Martin Whitmarsh is a far better manager than Ron Dennis. It was he who signed Button based on his assessment [correctly it i sevident] that each driver has oppositte strengths and weaknesses. And the closeness between the two have been self-evident from the start.

Jenson led the beginning of the Chinese Grand Prix although Lewis led briefly but luckily when it counted, at the flag.

The McLaren team is different to when Dennis was principle. It is calmer, free of antagonism and favoritism. Also, if Dennis had still been the racing chief, not likely that Button would have signed. The good as possible relations between the two drivers and results of 2010 would never have been possible. This is Martin Whitmarsh's governship.

A bit of needle between drivers is exciting IMO.Witness Senna/Prost, Mansell/Piquet, and dare I mention Alonso/Hamilton!

Quickest when in a race or in qualifying? Jenson generally is doing MORE quick laps than Hamilton during a race. Button is a remarkable RACE driver and his speed through slow and medium-speed corners is exceptional. Nigel Roebauck some time ago wrote about this. This why Jenson may start further back but ends up in the front bunch. This ability won him his title. Any of the god drivers can win when a car is dominant but it is the ability aside from that that distinguishes.

To exclude Alonso as one of the THREE quickest driver is just ludicrous. He is a double champion CONSECUTIVELY and Hmilton is yet to win as many races as Alonso has done in a single year. Vettel trumps them both with 10 poles in a season and right now remains the quickest driver in f1. Vettel reminds me of Jim Clark.

I'm not criticising or downplaying Buttons achievements at Brawn - but at McLaren he was paired with the best driver currently in F1 (so yeah, REAL HIGH) in a non-dominant car. It's very easy for people to attribute his success in '09 to the fact he had the best car on the grid, the same can't be said for 2010. Last year Button prove that he can not only qualify and race close to Hamiltons pace but he can beat him on occasion too, he also cemented his reputation for robotic consistency.

Hamilton the best driver?

This is the same Hamilton that struggled to beat Massa 2008?This is the same Hamilton that being favored at McLaren as "Dennis' boy" and having tested for thousands of miles in the McLaren iin a team he was already in tune with only equalled Alonso in 2007 despite the icing out by McLaren of the Spaniard for most of the season?

Jenson proved his worth long before Brawn. He merely confirmed in 2009 albeit the cognitive dissonance of too many remains. To declare somehow that he "proved" himself in 2010 is offensive.

There is nothing robotic about Jenson's driving. It says a great deal that Brawn priased his driver aside from the results and Jenson's Monte Carlo weekend demonstrated just HOW good this driver is.

Jackie Stewart has also complimented Button on his "economy of movement" at the wheel.

This year the tyre situation does not all give a driver such as Jenson an advantage because the tyres are built to an INferior standard. If it was a situation where pit stop strategy and guessing was not paramount, but the driver had to make his tyres last and only stop when neccessary, then Jenson would indeed be in his element. These days ability to make the tyre last and be quick in a race means nothing. The quality of the tyres are DESIGNED to be rubbish in order to make F1 a carnival show for those with attention deficit disorders.

Jenson showed how difficult winning a wdc is from Silverstone on, when he tightened up and struggled to beat Rubens Barrichello. The first 7 races were a top-8 driver in a dominant car.

Same last year really, a top-8 driver against a top driver.

Thats what I disagree about. First 7 races were some of the best racing I ever saw produced consistently from a single driver. Schumacher didn't do this in his best days. Senna didn't do that in his best days. Both drivers had dominant cars, and both drivers are now considered as best ever by large group of fans - so I ask you - what's their excuse? Because they were top drivers in dominant cars.

What Jenson did in those 7 races in seriously underrated. And losing to Lewis Hamilton can in no way be greater success than winning WDC - to be honest I think its just a way of making Lewis Hamilton greater than he is.

Also, which drives were really impressive in 2010. by Jenson Button? China is the only one truly impressive in my mind. He was also really good in Canada, Turkey and Australia - but none of those was anything special. In Canada he was beaten by Lewis on pure pace, in Turkey he didn't make his overtaking move on Hamilton stick, in Australia he got pretty lucky with his gamble.

In 2009. he had at least 3-4 mighty impressive races and another 3-4 that were really good ones.

This is the same Hamilton that struggled to beat Massa 2008?This is the same Hamilton that being favored at McLaren as "Dennis' boy" and having tested for thousands of miles in the McLaren iin a team he was already in tune with only equalled Alonso in 2007 despite the icing out by McLaren of the Spaniard for most of the season?

Jenson proved his worth long before Brawn. He merely confirmed in 2009 albeit the cognitive dissonance of too many remains. To declare somehow that he "proved" himself in 2010 is offensive.

There is nothing robotic about Jenson's driving. It says a great deal that Brawn priased his driver aside from the results and Jenson's Monte Carlo weekend demonstrated just HOW good this driver is.

Jackie Stewart has also complimented Button on his "economy of movement" at the wheel.

This year the tyre situation does not all give a driver such as Jenson an advantage because the tyres are built to an INferior standard. If it was a situation where pit stop strategy and guessing was not paramount, but the driver had to make his tyres last and only stop when neccessary, then Jenson would indeed be in his element. These days ability to make the tyre last and be quick in a race means nothing. The quality of the tyres are DESIGNED to be rubbish in order to make F1 a carnival show for those with attention deficit disorders.

Haha.

I wasn't saying about Button pre-Brawn, but few people rated him as top tier, now he's quite clearly proven he is. I'd like to see some comments from 2008 and before comparing him to Alonso, Hamilton, Schumacher etc, please, find them for me. Now, you have to realise I'm not criticising his driving before his WDC, I'm just saying the perception of his ability changed but more so for me personally in 2010 - sorry if you find that offensive, it takes all sorts I guess.

Again, you've misunderstood my 'robotic' statement but I'm guessing from your post that English isn't your native/1st language - 'robotic consistency' is mostly a comment about how few mistakes he makes - he is like a machine, constantly putting in fast laps, he'll almost always bring home points where as Hamilton is a touch more of a peak and valley driver with a very human edge to his driving style.

Good for Jackie Stewart.

Pre season the trolls were all on about how these tyres will favor Button, you disagree. I don't know enough to come to a proper conclusion either way yet, I have fears over them but I'll watch the races and see how things pan out. I do know that Hamilton and Button are using the same rubber and face the same challenges learning how to make them work on track.

This is the same Hamilton that struggled to beat Massa 2008?This is the same Hamilton that being favored at McLaren as "Dennis' boy" and having tested for thousands of miles in the McLaren iin a team he was already in tune with only equalled Alonso in 2007 despite the icing out by McLaren of the Spaniard for most of the season?

Jenson proved his worth long before Brawn. He merely confirmed in 2009 albeit the cognitive dissonance of too many remains. To declare somehow that he "proved" himself in 2010 is offensive.

There is nothing robotic about Jenson's driving. It says a great deal that Brawn priased his driver aside from the results and Jenson's Monte Carlo weekend demonstrated just HOW good this driver is.

Jackie Stewart has also complimented Button on his "economy of movement" at the wheel.

This year the tyre situation does not all give a driver such as Jenson an advantage because the tyres are built to an INferior standard. If it was a situation where pit stop strategy and guessing was not paramount, but the driver had to make his tyres last and only stop when neccessary, then Jenson would indeed be in his element. These days ability to make the tyre last and be quick in a race means nothing. The quality of the tyres are DESIGNED to be rubbish in order to make F1 a carnival show for those with attention deficit disorders.

Awesome, only equalling alonso in his first season...congrats on the creativity of your criticism.

As for the tyre situation

Prior to 2010 we were told that button would have an advantage because of the tyres. When this turned out not to be the case it was the tyres fault for not degrading quickly enough.

Prior to this year we were told button would have an advantage because of the tyres. Now you're saying he doesn't and it's the tyre's fault.

As I said in the Lewis V Jenson thread - people are always designing and finding different parameters where Jenson will easily beat Lewis, seems to me if a lot of stuff was slightly different Hamilton would have no chance.

As I said in the Lewis V Jenson thread - people are always designing and finding different parameters where Jenson will easily beat Lewis, seems to me if a lot of stuff was slightly different Hamilton would have no chance.

This is the same Hamilton that struggled to beat Massa 2008?This is the same Hamilton that being favored at McLaren as "Dennis' boy" and having tested for thousands of miles in the McLaren iin a team he was already in tune with only equalled Alonso in 2007 despite the icing out by McLaren of the Spaniard for most of the season?

Jenson proved his worth long before Brawn. He merely confirmed in 2009 albeit the cognitive dissonance of too many remains. To declare somehow that he "proved" himself in 2010 is offensive.

There is nothing robotic about Jenson's driving. It says a great deal that Brawn priased his driver aside from the results and Jenson's Monte Carlo weekend demonstrated just HOW good this driver is.

Jackie Stewart has also complimented Button on his "economy of movement" at the wheel.

This year the tyre situation does not all give a driver such as Jenson an advantage because the tyres are built to an INferior standard. If it was a situation where pit stop strategy and guessing was not paramount, but the driver had to make his tyres last and only stop when neccessary, then Jenson would indeed be in his element. These days ability to make the tyre last and be quick in a race means nothing. The quality of the tyres are DESIGNED to be rubbish in order to make F1 a carnival show for those with attention deficit disorders.

These kind of silly posts result in silly trashing and underrating Jenson is getting. This is typical flamebait.