Patience Jets Fans: Why You Can’t Grade John Idzik Yet

You are a New York Jets fan, and you have been for some time. Youare used to seeing the team suffer heartbreak. Then, Rex Ryan and Mike Tannenbaum came to Florham Park and changed expectations. For once, it was expected that the Jets, behind an “ancient” philosophy of playing great defense and being able to run the ball, would compete for a Super Bowl…coming one win away from the big game back to back years only fueled that excitement.

The last three seasons have seen the Jets miss out on the playoffs despite being in contention every year Rex has been here. Tannenbaum butchered the salary cap, and now former Seahawks executive John Idzik was brought in to clean it up. Jets fans were excited because this was a change from a “shop till you drop” philosophy to a more measured approach that could potentially lead to sustainable contention. The belief was that, if Idzik could clean up the cap mess, the Jets could finally field a consistently successful team.

Idzik has spent the last year, in what was once described as a job that “couldn’t be given away”, doing exactly that. He traded franchise player Darrelle Revis for a first round pick (that became Defensive Rookie of The Year Sheldon Richardson) and what is now a 4th round pick. In a deep draft class, the Jets have a chance to draft as many as 12 potentially good players. Idzik wasn’t paying Revis $16M per season, especially when Ryan’s defense still finished number one in passing defense without Revis for most of the season. It was a business move, for sure, but here was Idzik showing faith in his head coach’s defensive acumen. Idzik believed that the Jets, and Rex’s defense, could survive without Revis. Gone are Santonio Holmes and Antonio Cromartie. Mark Sanchez, most likely, will follow shortly.

This cleared up a ridiculous amount of cap space. Yet, fans want to question why Idzik hasn’t spent money freely. In fact, they wanna know why Idzik won’t spend like Tannenbaum. This is made worse when players the Jets were “in” on sign elsewhere.

Revis, after being released and playing the media game perfectly, signed with the Patriots for $12M per season. Jets fans were outraged: why didn’t Idzik make an offer? How could he let Revis sign with the Pats? I admit I fell for it too. Brandon Pettigrew and Emmanuel Sanders sign elsewhere and Idzik gets bashed. One CB after another signs, and Jets fans wonder if Idzik knows what he’s doing.

It seems that he does. In the last year, he traded a 4th round pick for a feature running back and signed him to a 3 year/$6M deal. For comparisons sake, the Browns just paid Ben Tate $3.5M per season and the Colts traded a first round pick for Trent Richardson. He signed David Nelson, who was a contributor his first season. He, also, signed Mike Goodson who brought a different dimension to the Jets offense before tearing his ACL. Greg Salas and Zach Sudfeld were, also, quality additions that bolstered the depth of the roster. Willie Colon brought a nastiness to the Jets line, and he could be back with the team. He drafted Dee Milliner who, after turning a corner in Week 9, finished strong and looks ready to take that next step. He drafted Brian Winters, who ended the season on a high note as well. Then, he added his potential franchise quarterback (Geno Smith) with a second round pick and a defensive cornerstone in the aforementioned Richardson. Fans seemingly forget this because they want Idzik to spend.

Then, Idzik signs the top offensive free agent in wide receiver Eric Decker for a contract less than what everyone speculated. He arguably upgrades the RT position for half the price. Idzik, also, seems like he wants to make sure there’s enough cap space going forward to pay the Jets’ own players, like Muhammad Wilkerson and Jeremy Kerley. He’s already resigned Nick Folk, Leger Douzable, Jeff Cumberland, Darrin Walls and Ellis Lankster. Yet, there’s still panic.

New York Jets fans, breathe. I know that part of our fandom forces us to play armchair GM. This isn’t Madden, where you can sign everyone and not even worry about next season cause you can restart your franchise. There hasn’t been one move yet that Idzik has made that hasn’t been done diligently. Don’t fall into the trap of reading reports with anonymous sources, because Idzik operates in the Florham Fortress. No leaks spring from there. It’s March 16th. No Super Bowl was ever won by the team that won free agency. You can’t grade Idzik’s moves yet because he’s not done working.

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Frank Antonelli

Most Jet fans have never experienced a competent front office and thus have no idea on how to act. They are like a drug addict looking for a fix and not worrying about the future consequences. It was reported that Idzik once said that he would rather be fired then do the wrong thing for the team he was with. His integrity is beyond reproach and as Jet fans we should give him our full support.

Matr A. Dontelli III

Amen and amen. Mo, Sheldon and kerley will cost some money to keep around. If milliner’s improved play at the end if the year is an indication of what lies ahead he’ll need to be resigned as well. At some point they’re gonna have to pay a QB more than rookie scale. In order to keep the quality players they’re drafting they can’t spend high on attractive free agents until they’re a couple players away. Idzik is being smart and doing what he needs to do to keep the core together in the future. I absolutely do not want to see him tie up money long term by paying players $10 and $12 million a year. It’s not sustainable.

Jetorange

Patience is a wonderful virtue, I just don’t have it. I would agree that it would be fair and prudent to evaluate Idzik after the 36 million in Cap space is utilized ( currently 28, but 36 after Sanchez has been cut ). The question is how is going to spend it ?
1. Jame Jones WR 4 million
2. Fitzpatrick, backup QB 4 million
3. Return of Cro, CB 6 million
4. Return of Willie Colon OG 2 million
5. Return of Calvin ” No Alternative” Pace OLB 2 mill
6. Possible Cover Safety, Chis Clemons 3 million
7. MJD at running back 4 mill
8. 5 million for draft picks
Okay and then there is Mo’s extension and operating expenses for the year. So I count 30 million, Idzik needs to get busy, we need the best possible talent for September.

Jetorange

I’m adding Ed Dickson TE to my list at 2 million

Brad

Jetorange,

The great part about being patient, is that you get to spend about half the amount you suggested on Cro, Willie, Pace, and MJD. And with all that extra money you can use that to sign a difference maker when one comes available that will put us over the hump. We’re not there yet, so chasing Ware or Talib just wouldn’t make sense.

Also no reason to lock up Mo this year (unless he’ll take a massive discount but I don’t see it). Jets have a team option and then can franchise him a year after that.

John X

When are those “difference makers” going to materialize? FA started on Tuesday for which much of the top talent has been signed. Any names you see as late cap casualties? You guys are saving for a rainy day that may not arrive.

You guys that are preaching patience can be happy with the leftover scrubs you list but I say that ain’t getting it done. No how, No way. Colon, Pace, Dickson, Fitzpatrick? You must be joking.

cpar14

You don’t build a team through free agency, you do it through the draft. You have to draft well and develop the young talent, coach em up. look at what they have done defensively through the draft, Mo,Sheldon,Coples,Davis,Allen,Milliner,Ellis etc.. Now we need to do it on the offensive side of the ball for Marty’s system.This is how you build a winning culture, not over inflating the value of middling free agents.

Dalbin

All valid points for the most part. There were minimal difference makers available in free agency. Idzik did well signing the best WR available, upgrading the RT position, and resigning quality players. The team isn’t done; they could still sign DRC and James Jones, who are two good players. Like it was mentioned above, the Jets aren’t one or two players away. Why overpay for players that won’t give you consistent success? It doesn’t seem like Idzik’s style to do that. Build through the draft, and use free agency to supplement the talent when you can.

Jeremiah Johnson

Going “all in” during the free agent signing period worked so well for Miami last year, why isn’t Idzik doing the same thing???

I don’t understand the mindsset of spending money this offseason will impact Kerly and Wilkerson. They are two years away from that. In footbal that is 10 years. The cap will increase by then and you can’t say what there production will be. Yes, be methodical and responsible when it comes to FA. However you have to adjust with the market.

JetOrange

Okay, so my question is, how does Idzik utilize the remaining 36 million dollars in Cap room efficiently ?

Fred The Hammer

Number one priority should be shoring up the O-Line. Ferguson and Mangold have been durable but have logged a lot of miles. Still a lot of room for improvement for Brian Winters. Bringing Willie Colon back and hoping he can make it another 16 games would be wishful thinking. I’ve heard nothing to suggest Aboushi or Campbell are NFL calibre linemen. There’s not a lot of quality depth there. Giacomini seems solid but doesn’t figure as an upgrade on Howard. If only Vladdy Ducasse had developed like they expected/hoped.

John X

Fred,

That’s all fine and well but we’re being instructed by the smarter posters that we should be patient. Those same “smart” ones won’t reveal alternatives to the numerous misses by our new GM but I guess they don’t have to. This way they’re never wrong.

And yeah, they didn’t (successfully) chase Asamoa nor Schwartz (who they unsuccessfully chased last offseason) so we will probably have to address that need thru the draft (at the expense of selecting playmakers).

The Giants were able to land Schwartz and a CB as well in Thurmond while getting a visit with DRC. And we had the cap space and the same needs.

These same posters are trying to claim that the “better” teams are patient in times like this. Really? Denver, NE, Seattle, NYG, Baltimore and NO have hardly been sitting on their hands.
They don’t justify, explain nor offer alternatives. They just say you’re wrong. No accountability.

John X

Hey sarcastic Jeremiah who doesn’t know how to make a valid point: who said anything about going all in? And this isn’t about patience.
The Jets have been trying to land all those FA’s but just failed to get them. That’s the point. The Jets haven’t been PATIENT, they’ve been FAILURES. They can’t land any of their coveted FA’s. You’re way off the mark, pal.
Either Idzik is low-balling these players or isn’t a good negotiator but he needs to understand and adapt to what IS needed to land talent for this team to compete.

Joe Caporoso

John X – You just keep referring to “failures” from reported NYDN interest. You are the one who is “way off the mark” by thinking players like Brandon LaFell and Emmanuel Sanders are rising stars who the Jets simply cannot live without. Neither player set foot in Florham Park. There was never serious interest in either players. You allow Manish to rile you up, you end up freaking out 5 days into the league year.

Said it already, the best options for the Jets at QB (Vick), OG (Colon), S (Clemons), WR (Jones) and CB (DRC) are still on the market.

You want to sweat losing out on relatively average players like LaFell and Sanders, when the Jets did’t even pursue, you are going to drive yourself crazy.

hillel

I love Idzik’s approach. Tannenbaum’s approach was a disaster. Look at the Dolphins. They tried to take a page out of the Tannenbaum school of GM and it has failed miserably. It almost always does.

Dalbin

The Jets haven’t failed to land anybody they went after except for DRC. Someone remarked earlier how they’re surprised Idzik didn’t get the deal done, since he was 2/2 already. Don’t believe everything you read in the Daily News: the Jets were never in on Sanders, Talib, Schwartz, or Asamoah. Pettigrew, Manish said the Jets had interest, but he’s been wrong all offseason. He’s the one that was fed the Revis story and then it was shut down by everyone.

As for not suggesting alternatives so we’re never wrong, as a “smart” poster, the Dolphins went all in last year and went 8-8. Same record as the Jets despite the Jets having “collected” less talent during free agency. The Giants signed some players, do you want the Jets to sign Rashad Jennings? Quentin Demps? Thurmond, I can see, except the Jets have Wilson to play the slot and clearly believe in him. Schwartz would’ve been nice, but the Jets have expressed interest in bringing Colon back. Those are the alternatives. 12 draft picks let’s you build through the draft, and prevents you from having to overpay for a guy like Talib. You don’t adjust to the market, you set it. It’s what the Patriots have done for years and it’s great that the Jets adopted a similar philosophy. And, it’s not just Wilkerson and Kerley that you have to pay, but Geno (should he develop), Sheldon, Damon, Coples, Davis, and Milliner. You don’t risk future flexibility to make a splashy signing.

John X

Joe,

First, noce try but I never claimed either LaFell or Sanders were stars but I do understand that the team was very interested in LaFell and lost out on him to NE. Sanders? I’m not so sure so please stop placing words in my mouth. And I’m not talking about Manish reports here (more dishonesty). I don’t appreciate your lack of professionalism here, Joe. Your staff does a better job at this than you do.
And the list obviously is larger than Sanders and LaFell. It’s a shame you can’t be honest here but that’s your shortcoming, not mine. I’m merely telling the truth. I’m sorry you and others can’t handle that. What you assess from that is a matter of opinion but here’s the list again of those “failures”, meaning players they showed interest in and could not sign:

That’s a lot of swings and misses from the confirmed list alone. For all we know, many of the unconfirmed list may have also been contacted. You yourself have claimed often that they have indeed contacted Jones. I haven’t seen so and when I asked you about this, my question was deleted (as this note will likely be as well). You also claim that some visits or contacts are made that we don’t know about so the list could be larger yet.

Sorry, but my opinion is that this is not a success. Not just simply from the standpoint of the Jets but of our direct competitors taking the very players we are chasing. I don’t see how you see another side but that’s just me. Keep preaching patience. I wonder how much you actually believe in that.

John X

Dalbin,

Your first statement is entirely and factually wrong. You might want to start over.
And the Dolphins are not the reason we shouldn’t try to get FA’s, which by the way, the Jets ARE trying to accomplish here.
Of the 12 drat picks, 3 are on the first two days. Good luck filling starting roles on the 3rd day.

What is most amusing about your post is how you state that we should do what the Patriots do. Well, guess what? They have landed Revis, Edelman, LaFell, and Browner on a limited cap number. That’s the most laughable point here. We should be patient while Denver, NE, NO, NYG, Seattle, and Baltimore, all successful team can be aggressive and land coveted FA’s that fill holes in their lineup. WHAT???!!!!

John, there was never a visit to FloPark, which is what Joe alluded to.

Dalbin

John,

My first part is not factually wrong. Someone did remark that earlier. That’s a fact. I didn’t make that up.

Second, what the Patriots do is set the market. If you read my reply correctly, you’d understand that. They set a number and didn’t go above that. Revis? Less money than what he wanted. Edelman? I haven’t seen contract numbers yet, but I’m willing to bet they didn’t overpay. Lafell? Same thing. Browner? Coming off a PED and, considering he said he only wanted to go to NE, he signed for less than if he had left his options open. That’s my point about teams like NE, who are consistently in contention. While every other team pays their QB $18-20M, the Pats pay Brady $9M. Why? So they can be successful going forward. Again, this isn’t Madden. With Howard, they had a dollar amount they weren’t going above. They never met with Munnerlyn cause he signed before they could schedule a meeting with him. Decker took one meeting, and signed here. DRC met and left without a contract. I’m not addressing the unconfirmed, because they’re just that.

You can have your opinion about how to build a team. I have mine. You’re trying to judge Idzik’s job in March four days after free agency started.

Thanks for reading.

John X

Hans, he also claimed that there was no interest. Schefter stated there was serious interest. Joe also claimed that I was getting this from Manish. Let’s be fair here. That’s all I ask. Draw your own conclusions, make your own opinions but let’s stick to facts and call it as we see it.

cpar14

Of course Den,NE,NO have to spend their QBs are all-time greats coming to the very end of their careers, they have to throw the kitchen sink at making another run. Seattle and Baltimore are the last 2 SB winners and are trying to get back. The Jets hardly fit either of those 2 moulds. The draft and draft day trades for picks or valuable players are still in front of us.

John X

Wrong again, Dalbin. And NE didn’t “set” the market. They landed coveted players where the Jets didn’t. Pettigrew was lost, Davis was lost, Munnerlyn’s visit was late, LaFell was late, DRC was lost (for now), Howard I can live with and I should take him off the list.

And it’s not a matter of how I or even the Jets would construct a team. They are actually trying to get these guys. They aren’t passing them over. They are failing to land them where Denver, NE and others are consistently nailing them one after another. You tell me what the problem is.

John X

cpar,

Are you trying to say we shouldn’t care since our QB is young? We should just let them take the best talent and we’ll wait a few years before we land coveted FA’s? And you’re insinuating that the Jets aren’t trying by saying the other teams have urgency. Great strategy.

cpar14

No I am saying these are guys are being overvalued, because those other teams are grasping because the believe they can win the Super Bowl this year. Brandon Lafell is a #2-3 receiver, I would rather keep trying to develop Hill before overpaying for him. Idzik isn’t failing, he’s not willing to overpay. look at the contract he gave Decker it’s awesome. We went lateral at RT but we didn’t overpay like Oakland did. Cmon it;s not about winning at free agency in March. Do you want to mortgage the future again.

Frank Antonelli

CPAR14. I’m afraid you’re talking to the wall when you talk to John X. I’m sure he signs his name with an X.

LeeBur

JohnX- just to respond to your point regarding alternatives. The alternatives are the NFL Draft. Would much rather take my chances with a draft pick then signing mediocre talent like Pettigrew and LaFell. Who cares if we “failed” signing those guys.

Also, like Joe said earlier, if we signed Colon, Vick, Jones, DRC, and Clemons, would you consider it a “failed” offseason?

John X

Colon is washed up IMO. Can’t stay healthy and tore his triceps for the 2nd time in 5 years. More than this, he can only play RG which doesn’t help as Winters can’t play LG. I’m disappointed we didn’t go strong after a LG.
Jones has recently stated he would like to play in Carolina and to this point no links between him and the Jets.
I would like Clemons and DRC, wouldn’t you?
Maybe the Jets don’t care for Clemons.

And the draft only gives this team 3 picks on the first 2 days. Do you think this will address all the holes not filled by this FA? I don’t.

You and so many others seem appalled that someone would not be happy with the results so far. I’m surprised so many of you are okay with the results so far. And the draft (3 picks the first two days) is not going to fill all the holes at this rate. We’ll see how many holes they plug with mediocre talent and see how much money Idzik can save. I’m riveted.

John X

cpar,

The Jets still have 30M to spend. What are you waiting for?
We’ll disagree on whether John is failing or not. All I know is that he’s trying to land these FA’s and they are declining. That doesn’t define success to me.

JerryB

There are no free agents that can send the Jets to the Superbowl. We are in a different position than the Broncos or the Patriots. We don’t have an aging HOF QB and a one or two year window to win a championship. Idzik is building a team that will be competitive every year. I think he is going about it the right way. Any cap $ not spent this year can be used next year. When we reach the point where we are one player away, that is the time to pay up for that one player.

JetOrange

@John X

I think you may be correct that Colon could be washed up. I do not believe that there was outstanding OG talent in Free Agency. I think that there is a distinct possibility,that the Jets decided to let Ijalana/ Campbell/Aboushi and a draft pick (Martin at 18) compete for the RG spot.
I also think you are correct that Idzik swung and missed on a couple of free agents. I am very sure in hindsight, Idzik would have liked to revise some offers, and or changed his approach on certain free agents.
I think we share a concern that 36 million is a large amount of cash to be sitting on.
As Mangini would say “it’s a process ” I think we need let this play out. Kindly note, I would be happier than a pig in mud to acquire the Scrubeenies that I listed earlier in Free Agency.

LeeBur

JohnX- Just to cherry pick from JerryB, we arent a SB Team. All of our “holes” arent going to be filled this offseason. But i really think you are undervaluing the draft. Starters can be found past the 3rd round.

On the Winters subject, just going to rehash whats been said who knows how many times on this site. The kid did fairly well the last 4 games, missed pretty much all of preseason, and transitioned to a new position. i think we need to give him 1 more year until it can be said he “cant play LG”.

Lidman

I guess it’s fair not to fully judge Idzik until we see what team breaks camp. If you’re watching a game, and the team is playing bad in the 1H, but comes back to win, they ultimately succeed.

However, I think it’s fair to point out what appear to be misses. Can Idzik ‘improve’ the talent level, with what is still available? Yes, there is no doubt a J Jones and/or DRC would improve the current roster. However, neither of these guys makes enough of a difference, to make this 8-8 team that much better, IMO. Did he not sign, or in some cases even talk to, the more high profile players who could have filled holes for the NYJ? I think the answer is ‘yes’.

Stop bashing Tannenbaum. A-He’s no longer here. B-His tenure saw the team go to consecutive championship games. C-The cap is different now then it was then. All this talk of ‘sustained success’ is well and good. You want ‘sustained success’, you need a top 8 QB. If you don’t have one, you can be as disciplined in FA as you want, you’re not going to have ‘sustained’ success if your QB can’t get it done. NE is the best example of that: he’s moved down to acquire more picks, and hasn’t drafted well. He’s signed some questionable guys, and that hasn’t worked. He’s let important pieces walk, and the replacements haven’t worked. But, he has Brady…a QB like that covers up a lot of misses.

LeeBur

Lidman- that is not true. Look at the Ravens. Flacco is far from top 8 QB. they built through the draft and made 1 or 2 big splashes in free agency every couple years. I think the Jets need to follow this template. Now this means we probably wont be a playoff team next season, but if done correctly, we could be a playoff team consistently starting in 2015.

I think us Jets fans have just been spoiled in free agency. Being the big market team we are, fans are used to us just spending. I think we just need to let Idzik try this different approach. If we are in the same position we are now in 2015, then I will admit that there is a problem. And will gladly admit that JohnX was right.

John X

I’m not sure why you guys are bandwagoning this Super Bowl talk as being relevant to the Jets not getting FA’s. The Lions, Browns, Dolphins, Raiders, Redskins and Jaguars have all been far more active than the Jets. Are they Super Bowl bound? Hell no.

Every team is trying to improve their roster and when you have money to spend, you use it towards attaining FA’s to fill holes. Why would they not try to get a #1 TE or another starting WR for Geno’s development? Why wouldn’t they try to get another CB opposite Milliner? Why wouldn’t they want to get competent safeties? Why wouldn’t they try to get another starting OG? Why wouldn’t they try to to get another OLB for the pass rush? These things get them closer to the Super Bowl. Do you guys suggest they wave a white flag and wait until next year to address these needs? And don’t tell me this can all be addressed through the draft. There are multiple starting positions in need. Do the math.

KAsh

@JX

None of your “confirmed” list has ever been confirmed. All of those names come from articles published by reporters, who at this point all get their information from anonymous sources. Munnerlyn had a visit scheduled with the Jets and so did McCown. That’s it for the confirmed players we lost. I also believe the rumors about Pettigrew; the Lions locked him up right before he was going to start his trips with a contract that everyone has characterized as horrendous. He is making as much as Heath Miller (Miller has even less guaranteed money) and a million less per year than Brent Celek. And this is for a guy that could be the backup in a year, if Fauria develops or the Lions draft/sign another tight end.

And the cap rules have changed. You are no longer wasting cap space if you cannot use all of it every year. Whatever part you do not use transfers to next year, with the only requirement being that you spend at least 89% of the money available over a four-year interval. We are in the second year of the first interval. Depending on the final roster this year, we should have about $30 million cap space next year before any roster cuts, plus whatever we do not spend this year. Not only could we resign our FAs, but we could also give out huge contracts to the FAs we need to be in contention for a Super Bowl. By his actions, Idzik will probably not spend big money until he is sure he can field a team that can win the big game.

Finally, I need to point out that we went into the last draft with needs at wide receiver, tight end, running back, quarterback, guard, outside linebacker, inside linebacker, safety, and cornerback. We had a weird draft, where we took a cornerback, though that was the least of our problems, then a d-lineman, then a quarterback, three o-linemen, and a fullback. We ended the year alright. We are going into this draft with much the same problems, but if we go after talent in the beginning and chemistry late, we should have a team that is stronger, if not perfect.

John X

Pettigrew was confirmed by multiple outlets and LaFell by Schefter. You guys can give your little nitpick comments and be happy with what has transpired and call for patience and all that but the results aren’t good. So don’t try to twist this into something it isn’t. The majority of the top-flite talent is gone and this team had set itself up nicely to make a run at such players that would help a surging 8-8 finish and instead has fallen flat while most other teams, contenders and non-contenders alike, have snatched up that talent.
Idzik screwed this up pretty badly.

LeeBur

JohnX- I completely agree with you, that I want the Jets to address these needs. Here are you answers to your questions……..

Why would they not try to get a #1 TE or another starting WR for Geno’s development? THEY GOT THE WR (DECKER) AND THERE ARE/WERE NO #1 TE IN FREE AGENCY. Why wouldn’t they try to get another CB opposite Milliner? THEY ARE DOING THIS BY LOOKING INTO DRC. Why wouldn’t they want to get competent safeties? REX REALLY HASNT VALUED SAFETIES, ONCE AGAIN I THINK YOU CAN FIND ONE IN THE DRAFT. Why wouldn’t they try to get another starting OG? THIS IS WHERE I AGREE WITH YOU, BUT SOME OF THOSE GUARD CONTRACTS WERE A BIT HIGH FOR THE TOP FREE AGENTS. Why wouldn’t they try to to get another OLB for the pass rush? THERE ARE NO GOOD OLB IN THIS FREE AGENT CLASS (MAYBE WARE? BUT NOT FOR THAT CONTRACT, AND HE WANTED TO GO TO A WINNER)

Dalbin

John, you do know that that’s your opinion right? You think what the Jets are doing is wrong. That’s fine, you’re entitled to it. LeeBur pretty much said it best, so I don’t need to rehash it. In regards to the draft, it’s entirely possible to find contributors in the later rounds. Teams with good scouting do it all the time. You want the Jets to be built like a fantasy team where they sign everyone available and that they should target all free agents. Colon just started and played all 16 games, so while he’s been injury prone in the past he just played a full season. You say no one offers alternatives and yet you’ve suggested no one that should’ve been signed. Is it because you realize there weren’t that many difference makers? You say he’s messed this up badly, why? Because he didn’t go after the players YOU wanted? Because after 6 days of free agency, Idzik hasn’t overpaid for players? Because, like it’s been pointed out, some players didn’t even get to their meeting with the Jets because they signed elsewhere? A miss, to me, is when a player is in Florham Park and Idzik doesn’t get the deal signed. Or, would you attribute every free agent that would be a fit for the Jets that they didn’t sign as a miss? If so, that’s nuts, but you’re entitled to that. kAsh, good to see you chiming in man, solid points. Thank you everyone.

Dima

What was the last team to win a Superbowl on the back of a major off-season signing? This isn’t the NBA; free agency is a trap, and the dream team model backfires year after year. Ask the Dolphins, Eagles and Foreskins. The Decker signing was probably unavoidable, but I like how the team is mostly avoiding wasting money on the Haynesworth-types of this class.

John X there is plenty of contributors after the first three rounds,this is why the draft is so important. You have to hit in rounds 4 thru 7. Almost 50% of your free agent list is from day 3.

Harold

Everyone ready to jump off the bridge.

You guys realize we are likely to get DRC he doesn’t have any serious options. We should be able snag him by tomorrow, stay patientvFA is still less than one week old.

Mark Phelan

Jets Fans! Is anyone pleased with the way Free Agency has gone? Forget the names. Just look at what our needs were and where the talent went.

We had the money but not the will or the smarts.

KAsh

@JX

LaFell is horrible. Pettigrew flashed talent, but has shown nothing to pay him like a good starting tight end. Your argument is the weakest when you mention them. I am sorry, but I do not think anyone will weep that we missed on LaFell (and if we do, it will be because Brady got the most anyone could out of him).

Davis and Munnerlyn are a stronger case. But Davis has had one good year where he put everything together and he still ended the year on a low note. (Coincidentally, that year was last year.) Munnerlyn is talented and would have been a nice addition, but he also played mostly in the slot. His addition would have probably required Milliner to be matched with the #1 receiving threat in each game next season. DRC is a better option because he can at least rival Milliner, and would probably win the #1 job outright.

Beyond that, the team clearly wants to get younger at most positions and develop more in-house talent. The free safety position will come down to Bush, Miles, or a draft pick trying to outperform Landry in training camp. The OLBs will be Coples and a platoon of Pace/draft pick/Barnes on the other side, with Barnes coming in on obvious passing downs and Pace and the draft pick dividing the rest of the snaps. There will be a competition for right guard (or maybe we still get a young, bad FA right tackle and move him inside – there are plenty of those). Cumberland, Sudfeld, Pantale, and another draft pick will platoon at tight end. The lack of hurry to bring in another receiver means that the front office believes in Stephen Hill at the very least competing in training camp. Not throwing cash at free agents means more opportunity for our young players (that are not far in impact from those free agents) and does not tie up our cap, forcing tradeoffs between keeping young players and paying veterans.

LeeBur

This might be the answer to why we arent signing free agents……..

NFL Network’s Ian Rapoport reports the Browns are “lurking” in the bidding for free agent Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie.
In Cleveland, DRC could team with Joe Haden to give new coach Mike Pettine one of the league’s most talented cornerback tandems. Rodgers-Cromartie will be in New York until Monday, where he’s been meeting with the Jets and Giants. Rapoport suggested on Twitter Sunday that the holdup in talks with the Jets is whether owner Woody Johnson will be willing to pony up enough money.

Nikolas

We can not afford TOJs “patience”!!
But we can afford grading Itzik and I just gave him an F.

The biggest key for the NY Jets is not any FA signing or any draft pick. It is ALL about if Geno Smith can cut his turnovers down to the tune of 50-60% less. I mean think about it; the Jets were 8-8 last year with a QB who turned the ball over nearly 30 times. Cut that number in half and the Jets are fighting New England and Denver for the #1 seed in the AFC.

John C

I’m OK with the pace thus far – would have liked to pick up a DB or Safety, but if we end up with DRC and/or Clemons, James Jones and another OL that would be nice. Then the draft… Fill holes with the inevitable cuts (by some of those teams who signed other FAs) as camps approach and finish, and we’ll be able to contend. This is a big if I guess, but if Barnes and Goodson play at least 13 games next year, two big holes will be filled with players already here. Goodson flashed a difference making ability in his game and a half. Barnes was forcing QBs into the waiting arms of the other Dlineman. As David said above, if Geno cuts his turnovers down to 20, and a few other things break well, we’ll be in the hunt – not favorites by any means, but not hopeless.

Frank Antonelli

Check out this pearl from the clown Manish:

Manish Mehta @MMehtaNYDN

What if the Jets lose Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie to the Giants? Organizational source admits Rex won’t be happy. “We better get him.” #nyj

As if Rex or anyone associated with the Jets would give him this quote. This clown just makes stuff up. He is definitely the leader of the clown media.

John X

I think a lot of you are misrepresenting the results with being “patient”. But you’re missing the boat. The Jets have been anything BUT patient. The Jets have been aggressively pursuing FA’s as many other teams have to fill needs to improve their team with the best talent in this FA class. Let’s get that out of the way. You can claim they were or were not interested as others may think but at the end of the day, we have multiple sources linking the Jets with many prospects.

Also, I was lectured here that one of our biggest needs at CB would not be the class I expected leading into FA. Joe or someone told me so. Well, it turns out that it was a far better class than anyone realized going into FA with the following CB’s on the market:

Again, you can argue that we were or were not linked to these players but the fact remains that they are all gone unless DRC doesn’t get out of Giants HQS.
Some of you can paint a smiley face on this and throw words like patience to disguise the real results in this ordeal.
I’m not happy. As a fan, I’m pissed off. Pissed off that our new GM that cleared all this cap space can’t seem to sign more than 10 percent of the prospects he’s chasing. With all that money, he’s failing to land anyone except a WR who’s wife was desperate to live in NY. Oh, and spend his time extending a kicker on the first days of free agency instead of trying to coordinate visits. Oh yeah, and don’t forget negotiating with Pace at the same time – I’m sure this couldn’t have waited until now also?
I don’t call that effective GM results.

Idzik is lowballing each and every prospect in hopes he can keep his cash not unlike Bill Bidwell and has created a turnstile for FA’s to come and go to this point.

I’m going to look forward to the fans here trying to tell me that settling for Cromartie with a degenerative hip issue or Champ Bailey on a one-year deal will be just fine in upcoming weeks. Okay, whatever. Just keep that happy face on and ignore the failures that have transpired this past week and delusionally carry on.
Idzik failed.

John X

And to those Captain Obvious folks who are trying to tell us that gems can be found in later rounds need to understand that rarely are 3rd day picks thrust into starting roles and performing at a high rate without a large learning curve, typically a few years if ever. Don’t sit there and tell me you can find starters at OG, TE, WR, S(2?), CB, OLB in the 4th round. We all agree these are all needs for this team that require starting-caliber players. With so many passed over in FA, please explain to me how we will address those positions with only a 1st, 2nd, 3rd and multiple 3rd day picks. It doesn’t add up.
Keep in mind our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks all struggled mightily last season with the exception of Sheldon.
How will the team compete without having addressed those holes with rookies and sub-par FA’s? I’d guess not very well.

LeeBur

JX- I don think there are that many holes. We need 1 WR, 1 FS, 1 OG, and 1 CB to be a playoff team in 2014. Those other positions TE
(Cumberland/Sudfeld), OLB (Pace/Barnes), and a 2nd safety (Antonio Allen) are good enough for a playoff push in 2014 if we fill out the 4 positions i mentioned above.

John X

You and I disagree on the TE, LeeBur as do the Jets who were actively trying to sign Pettigrew. I also disagree on the OLB as Barnes coming off ACL isn’t someone the team should be leaning on with long-in-the-tooth Pace. As for safety, I don’t know what the team is thinking. Is Allen the answer? If so, what about Landry? It was not a position of strength by any means. Nor was ILB but that’s getting way ahead myself as Idzik can’t seem to get anyone.

LeeBur

JX- I completely agree with you that those positions we disagree on need upgrading. Im just saying the players in those positions are serviceable for 2014. Every team in the NFL has 4-5 positions where they have below average talent starting. Ours will probably be TE, FS, RG, and OLB.

Lidman

LeeBur

I would disagree with you on Flacco. I don’t think he’s great mind you, but since he’s been in the league he’s been a top 8 QB. Second, you mention the Ravens adding 1-2 big FA splashes, I’d ask who is the last big FA splash the NYJ added?

Being a ‘big market’ team means nothing in the NFL. All these teams are flush with cash, and with the hard cap, being in NY or Cincinnati makes no difference. Every NFL team has the revenue to support the league’s salary cap.

In a perfect world, building through the draft is the preferred approach. The problem is drafting is an inexact science and all teams miss. It appears the NYJ hit with Richardson, and the jury is still out on Geno, Milliner and Winters. If they have a similar hit ratio, with their top 4 picks this year, I don’t see that moving the needle for this team. You have to use FA to help improve your club. It’s not a replacement for the draft, it’s an enhancement.

Again, this money eventually MUST be spent. If, by the end fo 2016 a team hasn’t spent 89%, of the cumulative cap space, they’ll simply have to fork over the difference to the NFLPA (on top of this, if all 32 teams haven’t spent 95% of the cumulative cap, each team will get hit with an assessment) and get nothing. So, the way I see it, eventually the NYJ are going to have to dole out decent money to someone. Sure, Mo Wilkerson is due a payday, but every other key player, on their team is minimum 2 years, and in many cases 3 and 4 years, behind him. Not being serious players for the impact guys, available this year, was a mistake, in my eyes. They could have afforded to pay Revis 2/26mm. They could have afforded to pay Byrd, or even Ward. They could have afforded to pay Nicks 1/7mm (assuming he’s playing in Indy because of Luck). They could have afforded to pay Woodley too. I’m not suggesting they should have brought in all these guys, but they couldn’t bring in 1 or 2? None of these deals would have broken their bank, or set them back. Any of these deals would have improved some of their holes, significantly.

You can’t expect to consistently win games if you can not score and you give up a ton of big plays. To think this team went 8-8, and had a scoring differential of -97. Teams with similar differentials fared much worse (Except for the NYG):
Minnesota: -89/5-10-1
NYG: -89/7-9
Atlanta: -90/4-12
Cleveland: -98/4-12
Tampa: -101/4-12

I hope and pray I’m wrong. Maybe Idzik will prove to be a draft genius. Maybe he has a big blockbuster trade in the works. TOJ/Joe keep telling us stop being impatient, and there is a lot of talent left out there. I disagree, there are a few exceptions, sure. However, the reason the FA who haven’t signed are out there is they are the 2nd and 3rd tier. These are the guys who fill spots, not make a big impact.

Rex can be the best coach ever. If you don’t have the horses, you’re not every really going to be in the race. Idzik has misjudged the market. The cap has gone up, so the supply/demand curve needs to be adjusted. You’d think a Dartmouth guy would understand that. His actions, the past week, suggest he doesn’t.

Lidman

I acknowledge the NYJ signing Decker this year. I don’t consider him an ‘impact guy’, but acknowledge, that his contract size alone qualifies him as a ‘big splash’. My above comment was meant to encompass the year’s prior to 2014. So, prior to Decker, who was the last ‘big splash’ FA they signed?

Lidman

While I’m on a caffeine induced roll, how can anyone on here claim they know, or don’t know, which media reports are true, or not true? I’m sure Joe, now also with The Whistle has some contacts, but it isn’t as though we’ve gotten any breaking stories from here either. I mean you guys broke the NYJ dropping Santonio Holmes 2-3 days before it actually happened, that was a miss, no (eventhough we all knew that was happening). Rather than tell me I shouldn’t listen to Manish, or Cimini, or whomever, tell me who you think we should listen to.

For example, Gary Meyers had an article in the NYDN, after the Revis signing, saying Revis did try and contact the NYJ, but Idzik never reached out. Is that Revis’ camp too? Is Meyers out of touch as well?

TOJ: On A Mission To Civilize…start ‘civilizing’.

LeeBur

Lidman- you make some valid points. I just dont think there were that many great FAs this year. You mention Byrd, Ward, and Nicks. Sure we could have afforded them but Byrd and Ward went to a “win now” team. For all we know we did contact those guys and they wanted to chase a ring while still collecting a great long term contract. As for Nicks, he came out and said he wanted to play with a top QB. So we were SOL from the beginning on that one.

As for Revis, hes going to be playing on 1 year rental deals for the rest of his career (at least thats my opinion), and since we arent close to being a SB team, im OK with them not shelling out 12 million for 1 year and then next season going through the Revis contract negotiation fiasco again.

I just cant think of any FA that were that great out there that we truly were interested and missed on.

mattimar

It is ok to be patient..But going in the Jets needed some skill players and at least one OL before the draft. The issue is that so far all they have done is replace the OT they lost and still have a hole at Guard. Now they also have a hole or 2 in the secondary, while helping out the offense a bit with Decker. I believe that if they can just fill the hole at CB (with Quality) and get some depth in free agency then most will be patient and look forward to the draft.

Joe Caporoso

Lidman – If you don’t consider Decker an “impact guy” – I really don’t know what to tell you. He has more TDs over the past 2 years than every Jets WR combined and is a top 20-25 WR in the NFL added to the league’s worst WR group. If he isn’t an impact guy, than who is?

We broke the Jeff Cumberland signing and Santonio Holmes being released, both of which were right. Regardless, breaking isn’t our game but we had a solid enough source and we ran with it, we get tips to these things all the time and generally hold them off because we prefer to focus on analysis, not breaking news.

This is what I’ve been up against. Either the Jets have spoken to everyone or they’ve spoken to no one. Whichever fits their agenda, I guess.
Whether they have or haven’t, the overlying point is they haven’t signed anyone. And CB was a big need going into this FA with a healthy class of solid corners. It dried up almost completely and now these posters are telling me that we shouldn’t budge on negotiations. Really?! Does anyone know HOW to negotiate? DRC is now in a position of bargaining strength now that all the top CB’s are gone. At the beginning, the teams had power. Idzik may not realize this and it’s the reason he may lose out on DRC as well.

LeeBur,

No one including you can make a sweeping generalization of a FA class to justify not taking anyone. It’s just not even close to being on the mark. This year’s FA class was very deep at #1 CB’s. Very shallow on #1 WR’s. #2 WR’s was moderately good. TE’s – terrible. Safeties – quite good. RB’s – so-so. QB’s – not so great. OG’s – weak. OT’s – weak. You see where I’m going with this – it’s positionally specific.
And this is where I’m critical of Johnny Id. CB’s were very deep at the top and this team badly needed one and had the money for it. I’m not looking forward to the alternative here as we all watched how badly a top 10 (best in the draft class) CB struggled most of the season last year. I don’t think a surging 8-8 team with hopes of competing next year wants to go through that again. This was a critical need in FA as was addressing WR.

Joe Caporoso

NYJ is confirmed to have 4 players that they’ve actually met with in person: Decker, Giacomini, Vick and DRC. They’ve signed 2. 2 are still FAs.

Lidman

LeeBur,

Do you really think Byrd went to New Orleans just for the opportunity to win? He’s getting $18.3mm fully guaranteed, and likely gets no less than $20.3mm the next 2yrs, before his cap number might make him vulnerable to ‘re-structuring’. That’s a lot of guaranteed money in today’s NFL.

On Revis, the more you see how the market, at his position, shakes out, the more you scratch your head. I could give a rat’s @$$ how much Woody hates his negotiating (Woody has no issue raising ticket prices, after 3 consecutive non-playoff seasons though). This guy is the perfect piece to this HC defensive system. According to PFF, he was the best at his position, in 2013-and he wasn’t 100% (http://goo.gl/pL7Mir). Ego trips are the most expensive. If the NYJ go out and have to guarantee DRC upwards of $15mm, when it only took $12mm to secure the best guy at his position, it’s a mistake.

Idzik/Woody will ultimately HAVE TO SPEND MONEY. This idea they are waiting to spend when they think they have a real chance at winning a SB is flawed. This is a league with 100% injury rate, you can’t anticipate anything. Simply put, right now the team has nearly $28mm in cap space (according to PFF) and that’s before doing anything on Sanchez. Even if they spend an additional $25mm, from this point, can anyone legitimately argue there are impact players left out there? Yeah, James Jones is good, but if they acquire him, will this offense be guaranteed to be 3-5pts better, because of a dimension he brings? Sure, we can bring in Chris Clemons and DRC, do those guys improve the talent level? Sure, but are they All-Pro caliber players, players who make you confident the NYJ are likely to cut down the 38+ pass plays given up, by 30-50%?

What good is managing your cap space well, if you don’t use it to improve your team every year? The best FA are gone, the NYJ are not appreciably better than they were 2 weeks ago, I’m disappointed in that. I think you should be too.

LeeBur

JX- i agree with you. But you keep ignoring when I say, how do you know we didnt contact those CBs (besides Revis)? maybe we did send them an offer that was comparable to what they signed for, but they went to a team that is “win now” (besides Verner).

At the end of the day i dont think its fair to bash Idzik since we dont know whats going on behind the scenes and what these free agents demanded (financially and team fit). We are just used to spending every offseason. Lets just see what the roster looks like after the draft.

LeeBur

Lidman- you are right Byrd got a lot of money. But if i am Byrd and the jets and saints both offered me that deal. Im signing with NO since its a better team. The Jets offer would have needed to be significantly larger to bring him over. Thats a lot of money to pay for a position that the Jets dont clearly value since Rex has been here.

Lidman

Joe..love that stat..then tell me why they haven’t met with more FA. Did Byrd, Ward, Revis, Tate, Talib, Davis, Sanders, Ware, Woodley, Verner, Asamoah, Schwartz, Tyson Jackson, Mike Mitchell, Andre Roberts….I’ll stop…did these guys no want to meet with the NYJ? Do we know this? Do we know that the NYJ even tried to call on any of these guys?

Great they are 2/2. I’ll give you Decker, but it certainly seems like the market was luke warm on him, you heard nothing day 1 and overall the WR market was softer, $-wise, than other positions. But, I give them credit for getting a good football player.
Breno..really..that’s who you’re using. Like the world was beating down this guy’s door.
I can hear the bellowing around the league:
“Guys..hold everything..hold up Revis, Byrd and Talib..Breno Giacomini is available, yes..that Breno…we’ve gotta have him.”

Again, can you positively tell us the NYJ didn’t try and contact other FA and those players chose not sign with them? What are you goign to say if they pay Vick $15mm/2yr? That’s improving the team?

Winning FA doesn’t win you a Super Bowl. That’s been proven. Show me an example of a team not spending and having a great year.

2 for 2..that made my morning…Breno..that’s funny…’I gotta have Breno….’

Joe Caporoso

You basically just seem salty about the whole Revis thing, the sooner you realize a reunion was never happening and the extent of the contact was Revis’ manager texting a low level staffer and then leaking to NYDN that Revis LOVES LOVES LOVES <3 <3 the Jets to get people in a frenzy and drive up the Pats contract offer, the better.

Lidman

LeeBur,

This idea that ‘Rex doesn’t value the FS’ is one I don’t get. Yes, when he had Revis and Cro, he was confident on those guys locking up guys 1 on 1. He had a lot invested in CBs, so having a top flight (read: expensive) FS wasn’t something he valued. Now, he has no CBs. If I’m not mistaken, he had an ‘in his prime Ed Reed’ with him in Baltimore, and I don’t remember them trading him, because Rex ‘didn’t value’ the position.

Where is Byrd going? Who is their DC? Hmmm…so the Ryans don’t need a great FS for their system.

It’s money management 101, you have 4 secondary spots, you can’t have the top paid CB, another top 10 paid CB, and then have high priced Safeties. Byrd is a great player, in his prime who would have made the team better. I have a bigger problem if the NYJ didn’t try and talk to him. They could have afforded him, even at a higher price than NO.

Lidman

Joe..if we had signed Davis, Tate and Schwartz…I wouldn’t be saying this. I may not agree on player worth, but I certainly couldn’t argue the team wasn’t better than it was before.

I just use Revis as an example. He’s gone, I get that. I’m just trying to put my head around what saving all this cap space is for. If you have a good theory about that, I’m all ears. I think I’ve proven I’m not a hard head. I hated Tate early, and was then convinced he’d be a worthy pick up. I see, to an extent, the value in the Breno/Howard swap (though when you look at guaranteed money it’s basically just a preference).

Do you think this team is better, worse, or the same as it was last Monday?

Lidman

BTW, you theory on Revis and NYDN may be right, it may not be, I have no idea. If ‘driving up the price’ to $12mm is all it did, they failed. Spending <10% of your cap room on an elite player is very reasonable.

John X

You know Joe there’s something wrong with your belief that Revis was trying to drive his price up. He waited about 12 hours to sign with NE. If he truly wanted to pit all the hopeful teams against each other to maximize his signing dollar, why didn’t he do it? That doesn’t add up to me. I think tampering with his agents took place as it did with TB last year but that’s beside the point.

I still think the Manish story is plausible. The one where he said Revis wanted to come to NY. It was reported after Revis was signed and not in any way used to manipulate or even smear. Why couldn’t it be true?

LeeBur,
You throw out theories but aren’t thinking them through. Verner went to the Bucs. Munnerlyn went to the Vikes. DRC is with the Giants (as we speak). These teams were worse than the Jets last season.
Players follow the money more than you may realize. In fact, the CBA strongly encourages them to do so for the benefit of all players.

LeeBur

Verner signed a relatively cheap deal. Granted the tax situation in florida is different. Munnerlyn i dont care about (has had 1 good season playing nickel). DRC we still have a chance on.

Lidman

JX,

That’s my point, when Joe tells us the NYJ are 2 for 2 on guys they’ve talked to, I understand I have no idea what’s going on behind the scenes. Really, I’m hopeful that Byrd never gave them a chance to court him. As a fan, you can live with that. My only theory, that we’ve talked to a lot more people than the media has let us know is the sheer amount of cap space available. Agents know who has the most money available to spend, and it’s in their best interests, their clients best interests and the future for the players (thus them) to get teams to spend their cap money. So, I simply have a hard time believing all these players didn’t want to talk to the NYJ.

I mean, this team needs a CB. I don’t love DRC, but if he doesn’t sign, they they have to bring back A Cro, no? How can Idzik have allowed him to leave the building?

John X

I care(d) about Munnerlyn a lot and so did the Jets. That’s what matters most. He was as good a man-cover CB as anyone in the league in spite of his height.

I love to read these comments dismissing a player because they know better than the Jets of player’s worth to their team.
LaFell was not on most fans’ radar but he certainly was to teams such as NE, DEN and the Jets who were all vying for him. They see something in him that the average media hack & fan doesn’t.
Same goes for Pettigrew. He was a rare great in-line blocker who would release and make teams pay. Detroit didn’t know how to use him in their pass-happy scheme. Running teams would love to have him. And the Jets were very much interested in him.

Joe Caporoso

Munnerlyn is as good a man cover CB as anyone in the league?

John X

Lidman,

I’ve been following Joe from the beginning on this FA and early on he made this point that we as fans don’t know the guys that come in un-announced. He’s gone silent on that now because it would make this list of missed FA’s look worse since he’s taken the stance to defend Idzik and call (demand) for patience. In other words, Idzik can do no wrong. Okay, thanks Joe.
Civilizing = agreeing.

Even if 2 for 2 were true, this is a tremendous admittance of failure considering the needs, the players available, and the cash on hand. Just not good enough.

And you’re right. Teams aren’t simply flocking to contenders only. I think a lot of these posters are young and inexperienced. But even that’s not a valid excuse when you see the number of players the Bucs, Raiders, Browns, Lions, Vikings, Giants, Redskins, Jaguars – all top 10 teams selecting in the draft have eclipsed the Jets in acquisitions. Come on people, use your heads. Think!

John X

Yes, Joe!

LeeBur

You are right. The Jets did care about Munnerlyn which is why he was scheduled to visit. Minnesota was one of the stops before the Jets and he signed. Maybe if he visited the Jets before the Vikings we would have got him, who knows? What did you want the Jets to do there?

John X

LeeBur,
Call earlier. With 9 high-end CB’s, he didn’t get one of them here until #9 was left on the board. I find that unsat.

Joe,

Who’s insulting you over Pettigrew?
Are you that thin-skinned that the mere discussion qualifies as an insult? I haven’t insulted anyone. Show me where and I’ll be sure to apologize.

To go on your insulated Twitter account and make such disparaging, untrue remarks is not really big of you. You should be a bit more magnanimous and allow others to freely express their opinions here instead of shouting down those who don’t agree with your omniscience. Shame on you.

And shame on your reply to Lidman who simply said he didn’t believe Decker was an impact guy. I thought you ran this site in the name of civilization, not martial law. Maybe I was wrong.
IMO, you owe him an apology.

Lidman

JX

I don’t know if I’d go that far on Munnerlyn. Nice piece..great name, but are you really going to be comfortable asking him to lock up the opposing number 1 all by himself? Now, if they had gotten a top notch FS, then I can see how he’d fit. Right now, I’m thinking they will be taking Dennard with their 1st pick and going young at the CB position. I’m not a huge fan of DRC, but I think it’s a fair assumption to say the more time that elapses, since his NYJ visit, lessens the likelihood he signs here.

Joe..just to be clear, I’m sure Idzik does indeed have a plan. He hasn’t explained it (nor do I expect him to) and from someone on the outside, looking in, it certainly doesn’t look like he’s doing all he can to insure the team is equipped to make the playoffs this year.

As for the DJax talk, there is no doubt he’d bring a big play element this team has lacked, but he also brings the ‘Revis like’ I want to be paid attitude. The only problems: he constantly uses the media to promote his discourse and he’s allowed it to affect his level of play on the field .

Why would Woody ok a trade for a player who is constantly talking about renegotiating? Not only would the team have to give up draft picks, they’d have to dole out a $20+mm/$11-$12mm APY contract on top of that.
What makes any of us think Idzik is open this approach?

Lidman

Nobody owes me an apology. I love that everyone gets to express their viewpoints. I do think Joe is ‘dug in’ a bit with the ‘stick to the guns’ approach, but time will tell how that turns out.

Again, I simply don’t think anyone can look at the roster today, after a large majority of the top end FA have signed, and say the NYJ have improved their roster, in totality. Yes, Decker is an improvement to the offense, but the secondary, which was bad last year, is now worse, IMO. Meanwhile, the team has a huge amount of cap space. Even if they trade for DJax, and give him a raise, I’m not sure that’s the most efficient use of it.

John X

Lidman,

I believe the Vikes signed him to start as a WO as he did with Carolina where he took the Jets apart. They releaased Chris Cook.
I don’t believe the Jets were interested in a nickel back with Kyle Wilson there. Just my opinion. I think the media had him pegged wrong simply because he’s short so they knee-jerk claim he’s “only” a nickel back. BS. We’ll see how the Vikes use him.
If you’ll notice, I was immediately ridiculed by Joe on that so as to make himself look smarter or superior to those who disagree with him. Very petty actions. He’s doing the same to you.
Word of warning to all: don’t disagree with Joe! he’s always right and does not tolerate those who hold differing opinions. Tread carefully.

Dalbin

Munnerlyn’s not as good a man to man cover corner in the league. He’s mainly a slot corner, not an outside corner. Would he have been an upgrade over Kyle Wilson? Sure. Not an upgrade on the outside though. In any event, like LeeBur said, he signed with Minnesota before coming here. Byrd signed with New Orleans, the team he visited first, and didn’t take any other visits. We don’t know who has come in unannounced, so all we can do is focus on the ones that have. It’s been confirmed that the Jets have only met with four free agents; they’ve had interest in others, but that’s all it’s been. I appreciate the assumption on my age, professionalism, and experience John; you’re pissed that Idzik hasn’t targeted the players you wanted him to. What I’m doing is saying don’t grade the offseason a week into free agency; that’s the patience i’m asking for. Let the entire offseason play out before getting worked up. You mention Pettigrew, who Lions fans are even pissed that he’s back. He has stone hands and makes Cumberland look like an excellent receiver. If, by Week 1 in September 6 months from now the Jets have stood pat with the team they have, then judge Idzik. However, if it turns out that you worked yourself up for no reason because the Jets field an offense of Geno, Ivory, Decker, Jones, Kerley, Amaro, and then Breno, Colon, Mangold, Winters, and Brick? I’d say that’s an improvement from last season. If the defense is Mo, Damon, Sheldon, Davis, Harris, Coples, Pace, DRC, Milliner, Clemons, and Allen? That’s an improvement too. That’s me using my head.

LeeBur

JX- Calling earlier is fine (maybe he did call earlier) but he signed the day after we had Decker in town. So its not like he could have came in for a visit. Seems like they were interested in him, but werent losing sleep if they didnt get him.

Lidman- agree with Denard in the first if hes there. also agree with D Jax. but him and decker on the outside would be pretty sexy. especially if they draft someone like Ebron or Amaro.

John X

Lidman,

I haven’t thought much on DJax but at first blush he obviously knows Marty’s system and would provide that dangerous element that would free others. You saw what he did for 2nd year QB Foles in that offense. I think that alone is worth a lot of money. Just having him on the field scares the heck out of any secondary and his production was real high last year. He’s only 27. We could use a high pick on a TE and/or OG instead of on a WR. And from the looks of things, we may need to use one on a CB. We shall see.

John X

LeeBur,
The Jets were reportedly very interested in Munnerlyn. For you to conclude that they didn’t much care isn’t accurate. Sorry. You’ll have to do better than that.

Denard in the first? Did you guys see who the 3 1st round rookie CB’s struggled last season? Milliner was the best of them and was benched three times. DJ Hayden may never get it and Xavier Rhodes did come on late. CB’s take time to develop.
Do you really want to sign up for more secondary struggles like last season?
You may get your wish but it’s the last option in my mind.

KAsh

@Lidman

Lets dissect your list of “impact” players.

Woodley is old and injury-prone and does not know the system and is not fit to train a replacement. Pace is more durable, cheaper, and better to platoon with a young draft pick. Neither is going to be in the league in two years, so why pay a guy that you are already seeking to replace.

Nicks wanted to sign a long-term contract. I am sure he had a ton of multi-year deals on the table, but chose the receiver-needy Colts for one-year and $3.5 million so Chuck Pagano can finally show off his Peyton Jr. One of the Jets’s many mistakes with Sanchez was a constant carousel at receiver, so Nicks on a one-year contract would involve not learning anything from the mistakes of three years ago.

Revis for $13mm/yr? What happened to $12mm/yr? At what point is Revis too expensive for your blood? And does that point come before or after the cap limit? In all seriousness, Revis is too toxic for a multi-year contract. And we are not in a win-now to rent a player for a year.

Finally, Byrd and Ward would have been nice additions, but their priorities were to go to playoff teams after being stuck on bottom-dwellers their whole careers. We could have paid them more money, but when we make a push in 2-3 years, we would have had large cap numbers locked up in them, while a rookie might have rised up in that time (at pennies on the dollar). (Yes, we could renegotiate their contract, but as you love to point out with Revis, it is their right to play hardball and eke each penny possible out of the billionaire Woody Johnson, nevermind that Woody is protected by the salary cap and cannot pay more in a single year than the cap allows, so those players are really just sapping the team’s resources.

That is what happens when you overpay players: you screw yourself over. Finally, Idzik did not underestimate the market. The market did not go up: #1 corners are still just south of $10mm/yr, and the top safeties are still at $9mm/yr. As always, some teams paid for a player as if he was elite, but no one, except one $12 million outlier, paid a player beyond what he was worth a year ago.

John X

Dalbin,

You just mentioned that we have DRC. Is that true or did you lose some brain cells? All kidding aside, we can agree to disagree on the value of the prospects that the Jets missed on. I could argue the other way very strongly.
You continue to be happy and let me continue to criticize the lack if signings. Capeche? You’re not changing my mind. I’m not impressed by Idzik thus far.

I see now that Sidney Rice is of interest to the Jets. I Was hoping for that – a better prospect IMO than James Jones. I’m sure I’ll be ridiculed for that.

LeeBur

If they were that interested they would have had him in on the first day or 2 of FA. They were doing their due diligence on a mid tier free agent.

Dalbin

I didn’t mention that we have DRC. I said IF we sign him and Clemons to the defense, i’d say that’s an improvement.

Again, you’re entitled to your opinion, as am I. I’m not trying to change your mind, I’m expressing patience, because I know that had the Jets signed Ware, Peppers, Revis, and Byrd to those contracts, that would’ve driven me nuts. Why? Because that would’ve meant that, at some point down the line, someone would have to go whether it’s Mo, Coples, Sheldon, or even Geno if he continues to develop.

In regards to Rice, I had actually said a couple of months ago that it wouldn’t surprise me if the Jets targeted him; he’d represent a low risk, potentially high reward signing because teams won’t go after him after the knee injury. So no one is ridiculing you for that. It’s an Idzik like signing. I’ve liked the approach he’s taken so far.

John X

Whatever, LeeBur. You could say the same for the other 7 CB’s, right? Where was the urgency? That’s kind of my ENTIRE point in all these posts.

John X

Dalbin,

Good call on Rice as I agree for the same reasons. They could use a 2nd day pick on another developing WR and already have Nelson as insurance.

Dalbin

Agreed John. Adding Rice, a big target, would be a much better investment than Jacoby Ford. (Shudders)

LeeBur

JX- Trust me i get the purpose of your posts. You want to see urgency. We dont know whats going on behind the scenes. Maybe we were in constant contact with all 9 of those free agent CBs. Maybe all of them said no thanks. we just dont know.

Lidman

I actually was giving up debating Kash for Lent, but in an effort to get this comment board to 100, I will retort.

-Woodley is 29, and has been injured. He played in a Dick Lebeau, heavy blitzing, 3-4 scheme. While not exactly the same, I think he would have been able to pick up the Jets scheme. Now, if healthy, I believe he would be a big upgrade over Pace as a pass rusher. Simply put, the money Woodley got is 7mm, over 2yrs more than Pace got. Woodley is 29 and Pace is 33, I like the risk/reward there.

-I don’t know what offers Nicks received. What I do know is he signed for $3.5mm/1yr with Indy. Now, maybe he was set on going there to play with Luck. However, in their situation, with the amount of cap room they had available, I hope they at least talked to Nicks. Again, if they had signed him for say 1yr/6mm (contracts with APY like Tate got), I find it hard to believe he would have left that money on the table. Now, they are looking at Sidney Rice, who’s had 1 truly great season (2009) and has missed 25 games the last 4 seasons due to injury. So, even if the NYJ get him for $2-3mm, is that a better value than a Nicks? Again, we have to go under the premise we know nothing, I’m just surmising and looking at things objectively.

-Revis signed for $12mm/1yr (no way he sees 2nd yr of that contract). So, when I say $13mm, it’s only because I’m topping that deal. In this case, with this HC and this defense and knowing he’s the best player at that position, I have ZERO problem paying 10% of my salary cap, which by the way I have a ton of room to play with, to lock the guy up for 1yr, or even 2yr. I don’t care about his negotiating tactics. I care about production. Betting on him producing is as good a bet as there is in the league, he’s proven it. You can not deny that.

-How do you know Byrd’s ‘priorities were to go to a playoff team’? As I pointed out earlier, he was paid top of the market money for his position. Stop surmising what is going throught the head’s of players. Maybe I missed it, but if there is any article out there quoting Ward and Byrd as saying: “I had a lot of other offers out there, but I came here because I wanted to win”, then show them to me (they could be there, I haven’t seen them). The NYJ have so much cap space, they, as you have pointed out, don’t need to give huge signing bonuses that get pro rated over the term of the contract. They could have simply given a fair amount of that money up front, and kept their salary cap house in order.

-Idzik has, in my opinion, underestimated the market. Those other CBs you name, are not Darelle Revis-a game changer. Next year, when Sherman signs, Revis will be able to go right along with him. Why wasn’t Idzik in on Geoff Schwartz? They need help at G, and his contract wasn’t honerous, <5mm fully guaranteed..again, wouldn't have killed their cap.

This idea that they are being smart while everyone else is overpaying, while the salary cap is increasing, seems out of touch to me. If gasoline is $3.50/gallon, or $4.50/gallon, we still need it and buy it, even if our salary stays the same. However if you're salary goes up, maybe you buy that luxury car, and step up from your 4 cylinder.
There is more money to spend this, year, and very likely next year too.

John X

I agree with you there, LB. They all said no. I’m afraid Johnny Id is not adapting to the market as he should. And I think he’s losing sight at the opportunity he has to add quality players to this roster which is very close to competing with the big boys in the league.
The market (salary cap) went up the past several weeks allowing for more players (teams) in FA. Johnny’s got to adapt on the fly and not sit back and believe that one way is the only way to work. This is a fluid league with change in the air at all times and he needs to be react accordingly.

Ask yourself if you recall seeing NE this aggressive in FA. They are adapting to the market which was hot at CB and WR and they took action. Typically they sit back and wait for the action to come to them. They couldn’t afford to do that this year. The same applied to us and we failed (IMO). If they can find a way to nab DRC, much can be gained but if not, I’d like to see plan B. That was a ton of quality CB’s that flew off the market.

John X

Lidman,

I gave up on Kash long before that as he’s just too exhausting. You’re trying to reason with someone who claims to know what the players and execs are thinking. It’s hopeless.

Great points on the rising costs of doing business. Idzik’s first two contracts indicate that he is out of touch. While they were obviously team-friendly, it didn’t bode well for those offers to come. And we’ve seen what the players think of that.
I can only hope he’s smart enough to catch on here (and more importantly, not too ego-driven to change) and realize it’s not about saving dollars at every turn. He’s creating a reputation very quickly and it’s not conducive to attracting FA’s.

KAsh

Wow, this article eclipsed 100 replies. We are officially in uncharted territories of hot air.

Lidman

Is this the first TOJ comment board ever to go over the century mark? I’m sure I had over 10, confirming that I have no life!

Well done lads..well done!!!!

KAsh

@Lidman

You did not answer my most interesting question: at what point is Revis too costly for you? You always eclipse his salary when he is offered one and claim his circumstances will force him to take a pay cut when you theorize what he is worth. If the Patriots paid him $13 million, would you still try to outbid them? What about $15m? $18m? At what point can they just keep him?

Lidman

Kash..you often don’t answer my questions. Here is what I will say: I know what Revis got, and believe it would have been worth it to pay more than that number. If the cap is likely to go up another $10mm next year (as some reports suggest), the value of that position will rise. If you run the scheme Ryan likes to run, it rises even more.

As far as an absolute, I don’t have an answer to that question. However, the fact that he continues to sign 1yr deals, deals that have no long term cap implications, and this team has a TON of cap room is a bit disturbing to me. In fact, if Revis would have held out a bit longer, I’ll bet he could have extracted more money from the market. As I’ve said in the past, what he seems to value is having the highest APY, at his position. Next year, he’ll be able to take advantage because Sherman, who’s made virtually nothing, on a comparitive basis, and Peterson will certainly be looking for huge guaranteed money, which is likely to bump up the APY of that position. If Revis has a Revis year, and will only be 30 by the start of 2015, he lines himself up to collect an even bigger check. In the end, this guy might wind up earning over $100mm, as a CB…very impressive.

Nikolas

KAsh…stop it!

You do not know what you are talking about.

Any good manager – with no personal vendetta, would have signed Revis for 12 m.

KAsh

@Lidman

I will answer my own question: I would not pay Revis or another corner over $10 million. This is not an absolute, as if it took paying him $10,000,001.00 to keep him, I would pay to keep him, but I am not going up to $10.5 million.

But honestly, there have been too many replies for me to read and respond to everything. What question do you want answered?

@Nikolas

I have no personal vendetta against Revis. I never met him or communicated with him in any way. I do not know where he is from, where he lives, if he is married, or any other private details of his life. I do not like how he estimates his own worth or how he negotiates, but those are traits I do not like; I am fine with Revis as a player.

That said, I would never pay him $12 million. I think many GMs around the league would not. As evidence, only one team wanted to trade for him last year, when people were speculating that Revis would demand a contract worth at least $12 million. This year, neither Oakland nor Cleveland was willing to trade for him when he was worth $16 million and there was only one team that offered him $12 million. That team had just lost its top corner to its chief rival in the conference, so it needed someone even better to keep up in their arms race. (Last year, people said and wrote articles about how this team would never pay more than $10 million for one of its corners.)

The reality is that Revis is one corner in a league that is evolving to more three-receiver and spread offensive systems. The fullback is almost gone, many teams are very proud of their slot receiver, and quarterbacks and OCs more and more manipulate the formation and the play calls to exploit mismatches. Defenses are evolving to incorporate three cornerbacks, safeties and linebackers with the speed to cover and stop the spread, and front sevens that can disrupt the QB (rather than stuff the run, as was their original focus).

Revis takes out one guy. Forget the nonsense about “half the field.” Revis has not developed the ability to be in two places at once, so he cannot cover two guys at once. So Revis’s value is equal to the value of the average guy he goes up against. Not only are there less receivers making seven figures than there were in the past, the offenses are evolving in a way that favors investing in the second and third guy and a QB that can spread the ball around. For $16 million, you can either pay Revis and a $4 million-corner or two $8 million-corners. And your defense will be better without Revis. Revis takes up 1/11 or 9% of the entire new salary cap, but most teams spend 5-15% of their cap at wide receiver (that pays for 2-3 starters and their backups). You can still field a good secondary if you keep a $10 million corner, but $12 million is stretching it and relying on inexperienced/bad players at the other three starting spots.

Dalbin

I’m with KAsh on this one. I wouldn’t pay a corner above $10M, because the pass rush is what’s more important. Before someone says that the Jets had a pass rush last season and inadequate corners etc., let me finish. Cromartie was hurt and Milliner was a rookie. There’s not a doubt in my mind that DRC and Milliner in his second year should be an improvement. Barnes returning, Coples continuing to improve, and Mo and Sheldon should improve as well, but to me the DL is more important than the CBs. Revis, great talent that he is, joined a team last year with ALOT of talent across the board and they are currently picking 7th in the draft. The Jets lost Revis and won 8 games. On top of that, Tampa Bay gave up a first and a fourth for a one year rental because it seems like they realized this too; you don’t pay a corner QB money. $10M is my cut off for CBs.