Ahh, I long for the days when we slapped red lead paint on by the bucketful covering not only the hull of the seine boat but ourselves in the process back in the 40's and 50's. Most of us who weren't killed by machinery and sinkings working out there are still alive despite the horror stories from environmental wackos who were saving the snail darters from a fate worse than death. I've never been able to reconcile how municialities can puke raw sewage into the ocean by the ton year after year yet a lonely little boater can be jailed for applying a coat of non-compliant bottom paint to his 30 footer. Capt Phil

I've never been able to reconcile how municialities can puke raw sewage into the ocean by the ton year after year yet a lonely little boater can be jailed for applying a coat of non-compliant bottom paint to his 30 footer. Capt Phil

1.- Municipal sewage spills and long-term environmental damage caused by tributyl tin and cuprous oxide from anti fouling paints are two different things and the arguement of someone who doesn't understand the issue and has no real defense of their position.
2.- Nobody goes to jail for using an illegal anti fouling paint.

But, on the other hand I think it is valid to compare municipalities dumping raw sewage by the millions of gallons into the waterways to the no discharge rules and fines levied against boaters for non compliant heads.

Before anyone gets excited, I'm not advocating flushing your head into the local harbor but complaining that larger polluters are not held to the same standards as boaters.

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The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.

But, on the other hand I think it is valid to compare municipalities dumping raw sewage by the millions of gallons into the waterways to the no discharge rules and fines levied against boaters for non compliant heads.

While nobody is a fan of municipal sewage spills, the fact that they occur (spilling the waste that you and I put into the system, BTW) doesn't mean that boaters should get a free pass too.

I'm... complaining that larger polluters are not held to the same standards as boaters.

Why not argue that since the military can posess and use nuclear weapons, you should be able to as well? Government entities acting on the behalf of the citizens have always been held to different standards than private individuals.

Don't have a position to defend... just making an observation. Now long retired from the industry so don't really give a sh*t but know for a fact that there a number of towns from Alaska to Mexico that have zero effluent treatment in the US, Canada and Mexico. And yes, it is clear I don't understand the issue when large commercial vessels are held to entirely different standards for bottom paint than local recreational boaters.

Yea capn Phil !! But ya have to remember that there would be a lot less boat scrubbing jobs if we could use the bottom paint we grew up with!! Cus ya know nobody would want to scrub red lead anyway LOL Ahh I remember 3 yrs with no bottom painting! and still no animules on the bottom !! O well guess Im going to belize ya can still use good stuff there !!

And yes, it is clear I don't understand the issue when large commercial vessels are held to entirely different standards for bottom paint than local recreational boaters.

One of the reasons this is true is that recreational vessels tend to congregate in small, poorly flushed basins, where many small pollution contributions are exacerbated. This is not the case for commercial vessels.

Why not argue that since the military can posess and use nuclear weapons, you should be able to as well? Government entities acting on the behalf of the citizens have always been held to different standards than private individuals.

Silly logic and does not apply at all to the waste issue.

The military can reasonably make the argument that there is a need for them to have nuclear weapons to accomplish the mission assigned to them by law, defense of the US, while there is no reasonable or logical reason for an individual to need a nuclear weapon.

The only argument to be made by a municipality to dump untreated waste into our environment is they cannot or will not spend the money to install proper waste treatment facilities. I do not accept that reason as valid.

Fstbttms, I thought you were the militant environmentalist, down on toxic bottom paint and such. So how come you are arguing about dumping sewage into the very waters that you dive in for your living?

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The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.

I am not advocating for or against toxic bottom paints or sewage spills. I am advocating against invalid arguments for or against these things.

By using a valid argument like comparing sewage to nuclear weapons?

I still do not see or admit the invalidity of my comparison. Municipalities dump millions of gallons of untreated sewage, frequently in bays and rivers that are relatively closed systems so not able to easily dilute and flush the waste into open water. Boaters can be and have been fined just for having their head overboard discharge valve unlocked.

Unless you can point out a reason that has not occurred to me, I can see no justification for allowing cities to dump millions of gallons of sewage while fining boaters for dumping tens of gallons.

True some of these governments are serious financial difficulty and may not be able to pay the cost to install additional treatment capacity at this time. But this practice has been going on for years, way predating the crash that put most of these governments into financial trouble so systems could have been built 5-10 years ago when the money was there.

If there is some over-riding interest for the public good to allow these municipalities to dump their sewage I certainly don't know it. So to me the comparison makes perfect sense. Why should they not be held to the same standards as we are?

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The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.