Unpopular opinion: No coach deserves to make 11 F-ING MILLION a year. Do student fees at these schools help pay for these exorbitant salaries and the absurdly expensive facilities these upper-tier schools have? I’d be pissed if I had to pay for all this crap I didn’t get to use.

trombone_ninja wrote:Unpopular opinion: No coach deserves to make 11 F-ING MILLION a year. Do student fees at these schools help pay for these exorbitant salaries and the absurdly expensive facilities these upper-tier schools have? I’d be pissed if I had to pay for all this crap I didn’t get to use.

Disagree. We don't make market value at our level. We deal with market value, and the market value of a team competing at top 3 in its division (what I propose is where USU is or ought to be -- on par with CSU and Wyoming) has or ought to have a coach paid at that same level.

Our peer institutions are CSU, Wyoming and New Mexico. Boazy is an anomaly, as it is a football program that sponsors a university of sorts. There is no earthly reason our program should be, year in/year out, below any of those three peer institutions in anything.

You keep using that word. I do not think that word means what you think it means.

trombone_ninja wrote:Unpopular opinion: No coach deserves to make 11 F-ING MILLION a year. Do student fees at these schools help pay for these exorbitant salaries and the absurdly expensive facilities these upper-tier schools have? I’d be pissed if I had to pay for all this crap I didn’t get to use.

Do some research on Alabama and what Nick Saban has done for that school. He is probably underpaid.

trombone_ninja wrote:Unpopular opinion: No coach deserves to make 11 F-ING MILLION a year. Do student fees at these schools help pay for these exorbitant salaries and the absurdly expensive facilities these upper-tier schools have? I’d be pissed if I had to pay for all this crap I didn’t get to use.

I doubt they have huge student fees going to athletic fees or at least disproportionatley so to USUs for facilities you can't use. If they do its not do to the football program which generates big profits for the other sports in the P5 conferences.

trombone_ninja wrote:Unpopular opinion: No coach deserves to make 11 F-ING MILLION a year. Do student fees at these schools help pay for these exorbitant salaries and the absurdly expensive facilities these upper-tier schools have? I’d be pissed if I had to pay for all this crap I didn’t get to use.

Do some research on Alabama and what Nick Saban has done for that school. He is probably underpaid.

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Very true, in fact dig deep enough and you'll find that Alabama would likely not even be a state anymore if not for Saban. He not only put Alabama back on the map, he kept it on the map. People don't realize how close this country was to having an East and a West Mississippi.

Most of the high paid coaches at Alabama, FSU, etc., get the bulk of their money from boosters and donors, not from the school. Of course, I'm too lazy to post a link citing my claim. Just what I've been told by people at FSU.

USU78 wrote:Well ... that makes clear what production USU should expect over time: around 5th best in league.

If USU expects to challenge for league leadership, USU should be paying its coaches, all of its coaches, in the neighborhood of the top 3 in its division ... not a pretty distant 4th.

Disagree, the cost of living in Logan is less than SDST, etc. Further money is only 1 factor in a coach's desire to be at a place, and certainly NO FACTOR in his ability to win. Given that logic Wyoming should be conference champion every year.

USU78 wrote:Well ... that makes clear what production USU should expect over time: around 5th best in league. If USU expects to challenge for league leadership, USU should be paying its coaches, all of its coaches, in the neighborhood of the top 3 in its division ... not a pretty distant 4th.

Disagree, the cost of living in Logan is less than SDST, etc. Further money is only 1 factor in a coach's desire to be at a place, and certainly NO FACTOR in his ability to win. Given that logic Wyoming should be conference champion every year.

So ... is your argument that Laramie is so very sucky that one has to pay the same coach $400K more a year to stomach it? Or that Logan is so very desirable a destination that the same coach will stay there for $400K a year less than he would at Laramie?

Put another way: If we were to want to hire Wyoming's coach away from Laramie, would he come for $1M? Or would he stay in Laramie for $1.4M rather than make the plainly lateral jump?

You keep using that word. I do not think that word means what you think it means.

USU78 wrote:Well ... that makes clear what production USU should expect over time: around 5th best in league. If USU expects to challenge for league leadership, USU should be paying its coaches, all of its coaches, in the neighborhood of the top 3 in its division ... not a pretty distant 4th.

Ain't no way we could afford that.

Wyoming and CSU somehow get the money. How are we to compete for desirable head coaches if we cannot pay a comparable wage? Quality of life only takes us so far.

You keep using that word. I do not think that word means what you think it means.

trombone_ninja wrote:Unpopular opinion: No coach deserves to make 11 F-ING MILLION a year. Do student fees at these schools help pay for these exorbitant salaries and the absurdly expensive facilities these upper-tier schools have? I’d be pissed if I had to pay for all this crap I didn’t get to use.

They get in the ballpark of triple that amount each year from TV alone. People outside of the SEC footprint can't comprehend the merchandise adorning fans, their cars, their grills, their homes, etc. It's a different world out here. Does he deserve that salary? If he can negotiate it and someone is willing to pay it, I don't see why not. Does Oprah deserve to be a billionaire?

USU78 wrote:Wyoming and CSU somehow get the money. How are we to compete for desirable head coaches if we cannot pay a comparable wage? Quality of life only takes us so far.

USU competes for desirable head coaches based on scarcity, not quality of life. There are many people who want to be a FBS head coach, but few openings. USU isn't competing directly with CSU and Wyoming for the same head coach. USU is in the same tier as CSU and Wyoming, which is a step below the P5 schools. USU's head coach isn't going to leave for CSU or Wyoming because they know a P5 team would likely be looking to pay vastly more than CSU or Wyoming could pay. When USU looks for a coach they look at FCS coaches or FBS coordinators, not lower paid coaches in the Conference. The area it hurts is trying to pry coordinators away from P5 programs when they would have to take a pay cut to become a head coach. However, some will take the pay cut because there is a benefit of being the coach rather than the coordinator. Once again, the incentive is the scarcity of head coaching jobs that makes a coordinator to take less pay (with hopes of a much higher paying job to follow).

Also - this tidbit: "The MW also has lagged financially behind its chief competition – the American Athletic Conference – in the race to be the Group of 5's best football conference. The AAC's average head-coaching compensation is $1,605,383 compared to the MW's $970,244."

Ideally, we would be able to keep pace with the AAC, but I think they are going to keep pulling away from us.

trombone_ninja wrote:Unpopular opinion: No coach deserves to make 11 F-ING MILLION a year. Do student fees at these schools help pay for these exorbitant salaries and the absurdly expensive facilities these upper-tier schools have? I’d be pissed if I had to pay for all this crap I didn’t get to use.

They get in the ballpark of triple that amount each year from TV alone. People outside of the SEC footprint can't comprehend the merchandise adorning fans, their cars, their grills, their homes, etc. It's a different world out here. Does he deserve that salary? If he can negotiate it and someone is willing to pay it, I don't see why not. Does Oprah deserve to be a billionaire?

If people are willing to pay for it, then that’s their prerogative. Where I find issue is when athletics departments at smaller schools try to keep up with the big schools and have to funnel money away from other departments and from student fees just to operate in the black.

USU78 wrote:Well ... that makes clear what production USU should expect over time: around 5th best in league. If USU expects to challenge for league leadership, USU should be paying its coaches, all of its coaches, in the neighborhood of the top 3 in its division ... not a pretty distant 4th.

Ain't no way we could afford that.

Wyoming and CSU somehow get the money. How are we to compete for desirable head coaches if we cannot pasOsy a comparable wage? Quality of life only takes us so far.

Spot on 78, in fact the quality of life in Ft. Collins is at least equal to Logan. We need to pay a bit better however we should expect more if indeed we start to pay as boosters and fans what they do at those schools which we are peers with, if we do we will be just fine.

USU78 wrote:Well ... that makes clear what production USU should expect over time: around 5th best in league. If USU expects to challenge for league leadership, USU should be paying its coaches, all of its coaches, in the neighborhood of the top 3 in its division ... not a pretty distant 4th.

Ain't no way we could afford that.

Wyoming and CSU somehow get the money. How are we to compete for desirable head coaches if we cannot pasOsy a comparable wage? Quality of life only takes us so far.

Spot on 78, in fact the quality of life in Ft. Collins is at least equal to Logan. We need to pay a bit better however we should expect more if indeed we start to pay as boosters and fans what they do at those schools which we are peers with, if we do we will be just fine.

I don't necessarily disagree with either of you. That doesn't change the fact that the operating budget for our athletic department can't afford to spend that much on a football coach. That said, donations to the AD are both at and growing at record rates under John Hartwell...you know, the guy some people on the board claim is worthless.

We are spending almost enough, where the extra money needs to come from is the Olsen fund if folks would give additional $500,000 USU would be fine, in fact we are much better than where we were not that long ago. I do not think the university should spend any more university money on athletics it is enough now.

trombone_ninja wrote:Unpopular opinion: No coach deserves to make 11 F-ING MILLION a year. Do student fees at these schools help pay for these exorbitant salaries and the absurdly expensive facilities these upper-tier schools have? I’d be pissed if I had to pay for all this crap I didn’t get to use.

Very little student money is going into salaries paid at that level, as the schools paying this kind of money raise unbelievable amounts of money from their alumni. For example, Florida's Bull Gator club annually raises about $20 million a year for their athletic program. This is unlike USU, where alumni seem to feel put upon when asked to actually donate to athletics, but then want a prime rib program on a hamburger budget. I realize there our many reasons for this, having raised money for the university for over 10 years. But our program will never get measurably better than it is, consistently, unless this attitude changes. Thems the facts.

trombone_ninja wrote:Unpopular opinion: No coach deserves to make 11 F-ING MILLION a year. Do student fees at these schools help pay for these exorbitant salaries and the absurdly expensive facilities these upper-tier schools have? I’d be pissed if I had to pay for all this crap I didn’t get to use.

Who is the arbiter of "deserves"? I doubt any student fees are directly earmarked for coaches' salaries at any school. I assume that university administrators are smarter than that.

trombone_ninja wrote:Unpopular opinion: No coach deserves to make 11 F-ING MILLION a year. Do student fees at these schools help pay for these exorbitant salaries and the absurdly expensive facilities these upper-tier schools have? I’d be pissed if I had to pay for all this crap I didn’t get to use.

Do some research on Alabama and what Nick Saban has done for that school. He is probably underpaid.

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Very true, in fact dig deep enough and you'll find that Alabama would likely not even be a state anymore if not for Saban. He not only put Alabama back on the map, he kept it on the map. People don't realize how close this country was to having an East and a West Mississippi.

TheConspirator wrote:
Very true, in fact dig deep enough and you'll find that Alabama would likely not even be a state anymore if not for Saban. He not only put Alabama back on the map, he kept it on the map. People don't realize how close this country was to having an East and a West Mississippi.

That's hyperbole, but in all seriousness, since Nick Saban came to Alabama, the number of freshman applications has increased dramatically. This led to a huge increase in the average class rank/SAT score of incoming freshman, leading to a huge jump in Alabama's USNWR ranking. Alumni donations have gone through the roof as well. Nick Saban is an absolute steal at only $11 million per year. The economic benefits that he has brought to Alabama are easily in the hundreds of millions.

USUBlue wrote:
Disagree, the cost of living in Logan is less than SDST, etc. Further money is only 1 factor in a coach's desire to be at a place, and certainly NO FACTOR in his ability to win. Given that logic Wyoming should be conference champion every year.

That's silly logic. First, the ability to hire good coordinators/travel for recruiting/etc. is directly related to a coach's ability to win, and that requires us to spend money on the program. And while the head coach's salary may not directly affect wins and losses, if you pay your coach more, you are more likely to hire a coach that will win. If (for example) we were to fire Wells at the end of the season and wanted to replace him with Lance Anderson, that would probably be a tough sell. He probably earns about as much Wells right now and can be the defensive coordinator at Stanford collecting $800k per year for as long as he wants. Is he likely to take a job at USU for maybe an extra $100k-$200k per year knowing that there's a risk he'll be out of a job in 3-4 years? Not likely. But if we could double his current salary, the offer becomes much more tempting. Or look at our basketball program. If we could afford a larger salary for our head basketball coach, most likely Tommy Connor would be our head coach rather than Tim Duryea. You've complained endlessly about the Duryea hire, and realistically his tenure thus far has been disappointing at best. Well, that's a case study in what happens when you try to hire a coach on the cheap. You're more likely to hire good talent if you offer a higher salary. This is just basic economics.

The Saban salary complaints remind me of the complaints where people say "athletes shouldn't get paid millions when teachers and police officers get paid so little." As if it is a profession lottery to see which one gets paid the most. If you bring in millions to your employer you are going to get paid millions. If people are bothered that Lebron or Tom Brady make so much money, quit paying hundreds of dollars per ticket to watch them play.

From the USU standpoint, we will always struggle to retain good coaches. I hope someday we get to the point where if a coach or coordinator leaves it is only for P5 and not G5. Todd Orlando going to Houston was a blow that I wish did not happen. Obviously I doubt we ever get to the point where someone like that stays instead of going to Texas, but it would be nice for there to be no middle school between us and the P5 big boys.

Aggie in Hawaii wrote:The Saban salary complaints remind me of the complaints where people say "athletes shouldn't get paid millions when teachers and police officers get paid so little." As if it is a profession lottery to see which one gets paid the most. If you bring in millions to your employer you are going to get paid millions. If people are bothered that Lebron or Tom Brady make so much money, quit paying hundreds of dollars per ticket to watch them play.

From the USU standpoint, we will always struggle to retain good coaches. I hope someday we get to the point where if a coach or coordinator leaves it is only for P5 and not G5. Todd Orlando going to Houston was a blow that I wish did not happen. Obviously I doubt we ever get to the point where someone like that stays instead of going to Texas, but it would be nice for there to be no middle school between us and the P5 big boys.

As well as buying jerseys, shoes, hats, t-shirts, lunch boxes, coffee mugs, toilet paper.....well you get the picture.

I did that and more. I stopped watching. With all of that money on the line, I can see why people sell their souls. Might as well cheat because you get the reward either way and the repercussions aren't very severe or may not even come.

I came across this interesting database compiled by the Des Moines Register. It includes recruiting budgets and overall football operating budgets for all FBS programs with public data. The data is a few years old but I found it interesting as I think recruiting can play an important role in the success of a coach. You can have the greatest coach in the world, and pay him an out of this world salary. But if he does not have the resources to go and find players, his opportunity for success is limited. I find it very interesting to see the increase in the USU recruiting spending between 2009 and 2013. It went from $75,091 in 2001, up to $256,312 in 2011 (the year before our 11 win, top 20 season) and then dipped back down to $206,227 by 2013. USU seems (or seemed to at the time of the date) to be roughly on par with our peer institutions in the MWC when it comes to recruiting budgets. The data also shows to total football spending for each university. In 2013 USU had the smallest football budget in the MWC at $6,889,990, and Boise State had the largest football budget at $15,208,683. Compare that to the big names like Alabama at $41,549,940 and Ohio State at $34,074,179 and you can see how far behind the MWC is. Anyway here is the link: