I went to Afghanistan twice. On the ground, with a rifle, patroling for an enemy.

Frankly, Afghanistan proves the point that you will always need to put someone on the ground. You can hide from planes, you can mix in with the local population to defeat ISR platforms, but if you physically occupy space on the ground, you prevent the enemy from accomplishing their goals.

Afghanistan shows what happens when you DON'T put troops on the ground. The Bush administration tried to fight it with fighters and drones, only to find out they were failing because they simply couldn't deny the enemy the freedom to move. Hence the drawdown in Iraq and the surge in to Afghanistan in 2008-2010.

__________________In your haste to save the world, take care you don't destroy it.

__________________
Evil presupposes a moral decision, intention, and some forethought. A moron doesn't stop to think or reason. He acts on instinct, like a stable animal, convinced he's doing good, that he's always right, and sanctimoniously proud to go around ****ing up . . .What the world needs is more thoroughly evil people and fewer idiot ****heads.

Technology is useless without the human behind it. The most important thing a military can have is a well trained soldier/airman/sailor/Marine

Exactly. That's why I'm saying that I would rather have a smaller force with better training and better equipment than a large force as is. After you've trained and equipped these soldiers your standing army will cost less to maintain and retain equal or better effectiveness.

Oh really? How did the bomb get dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki? What made the decision to drop said bomb?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pump Revolution

I fail to see how ground troops were effective in Afghanistan, it appears to be returning to the way it was prior to the invasion. They hardly accomplished anything.

You clearly need to take a look at the history of our war in Afghanistan.

Inital invasion = Taliban/AQ destroyed
Withdrawl of troops from Afghanistan to Iraq = Re-emergence of Taliban and shadow government
Push of troops back in to Afghanistan starting in 2008 = The end of the Taliban's insurgency. They are forced to stop fighting and begin trying to become a legitimate political party in Afghanstan. AQ's ability to conduct insurgency operations within Afghanistan is greatly inhibited by mid to late 2011.
Current policy is to draw down = Re-emergence of AQ and other insurgent groups

Basically, we put troops on the ground, they don't want to come out and play. We take them away, they try to force their will on the people. We bombed the everliving **** out of them from 2003 - 2007. Did nothing to affect the Taliban's insurgency. You can't hand out food and supplies from a drone. People can't walk up to a fighter and tell them that tonight, a mid level Taliban leader is coming to threaten the mulah. You can't ambush and capture said leader with a recon satellite.

__________________In your haste to save the world, take care you don't destroy it.

Oh really? How did the bomb get dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki? What made the decision to drop said bomb?

You're splitting hairs. Had Tibbets flow the Enola Gay over Hiroshima and dropped the 20,000 lb standard loadout of simple incendiary devices, it's highly doubtful the Japanese would have surrendered. The technology behind the Little Boy and the devastation it represented was driving force behind the Empire's decision, not the mere action of flying the plane and targeting a city.

__________________
Evil presupposes a moral decision, intention, and some forethought. A moron doesn't stop to think or reason. He acts on instinct, like a stable animal, convinced he's doing good, that he's always right, and sanctimoniously proud to go around ****ing up . . .What the world needs is more thoroughly evil people and fewer idiot ****heads.

Slateman: The ground war has failed to solve the problem. When was the last time the ground forces were victorious? Korea?

I don't think that's really an issue of an alleged ineffectiveness/uselessness of ground forces, but rather a failure to adequately understand the "problem" attempted to be solved military actions and thus an inability to define "victory."

__________________
Evil presupposes a moral decision, intention, and some forethought. A moron doesn't stop to think or reason. He acts on instinct, like a stable animal, convinced he's doing good, that he's always right, and sanctimoniously proud to go around ****ing up . . .What the world needs is more thoroughly evil people and fewer idiot ****heads.

You don't think that how we use and intend to use our military dictates the size and technology we need?

Of course it does, but that isn't what he is saying.

It seems to be accepted by the majority posting that to decrease manning safely you have to also decrease missions, and OPTEMPO (different words may be used, but the meaning is the same). You can't replace every soldier with a machine, robot, or a video camera and call it good. You will still need a human being with 5+ senses and the ability to reason.

__________________--- UNDRPRVLGD Goggle Straps n stuff ---If this be treason, make the most of it.-Patrick HenryI'm a damn veteran, I've got more rights and privileges than you do.MQ2 rebuild kits, MP4 ram rebuilds, general 'cocker techingWill soon be making super slick mid/half block bolts