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It's this very same attitude I've heard time after time ad nauseum on this forum that I really don't understand. "Most powerful city in the world?" Why does Metro DC have such a high opinion of itself? With all due respect while DC is a great city in its own right once you get outside the Beltway the rest of the metro area is largely a typical soulless suburban armpit with the typical McMansions, SUVs, and strip malls with very few exceptions. Due to the lack of a skyline we are left with a very decentralized network of employers, and all of the suburb-to-suburb commuting has made efficient mass transit planning here impossible (leading to our second-worst traffic congestion in the nation and some of the nation's worst sprawl). Just about every other great city in our nation also has a great network of suburbs where you're not ONLY relegated to the "fake" American Dream sort of environment. (NYC, Boston, Chicago, and Philly immediately come to mind). I also hear "That's the price one must pay to live here...." (with the voice trailing off snootily in the end as if DC is and should be only a playground for the elite. I don't get that one either.

I'm likely to be single for a good majority of my life. How can someone like me, even on a $100,000 salary with my MBA and CPA, comfortably afford a modest home here? I've said it before and I'll say it again, DC's housing market is unfairly slanted towards dual-income householders. If you're single you're pretty much relegated to a 1-BR apartment for the rest of your life. For God's sake I know single people (including my boss) making $90,000 who are still living in 1-BR apartments. I have 22-year-old fresh college graduate peers who are already in the process of purchasing their first homes back in Pennsylvania. It's just frustrating to see them living so happily with just a tiny patch of grass to put a flamingo in while down here I'm just "waiting for tomorrow to get better" listening to people shout at each other in Spanish half the time and shaking my head at plastic-looking 20-somethings hanging out at bars wearing sunglasses at night, talking about their frequent European vacations, and driving the BMW that mommy and daddy bought for them on their 21st birthdays. When DOES it finally get better here for those of us busting our humps trying to work our way up from nothing?

Absolutely couldn't agree with you anymore, D.C. is overpriced for what you get especially at new york city prices.

It's this very same attitude I've heard time after time ad nauseum on this forum that I really don't understand. "Most powerful city in the world?" Why does Metro DC have such a high opinion of itself? With all due respect while DC is a great city in its own right once you get outside the Beltway the rest of the metro area is largely a typical soulless suburban armpit with the typical McMansions, SUVs, and strip malls with very few exceptions. Due to the lack of a skyline we are left with a very decentralized network of employers, and all of the suburb-to-suburb commuting has made efficient mass transit planning here impossible (leading to our second-worst traffic congestion in the nation and some of the nation's worst sprawl). Just about every other great city in our nation also has a great network of suburbs where you're not ONLY relegated to the "fake" American Dream sort of environment. (NYC, Boston, Chicago, and Philly immediately come to mind). I also hear "That's the price one must pay to live here...." (with the voice trailing off snootily in the end as if DC is and should be only a playground for the elite. I don't get that one either.

I'm likely to be single for a good majority of my life. How can someone like me, even on a $100,000 salary with my MBA and CPA, comfortably afford a modest home here? I've said it before and I'll say it again, DC's housing market is unfairly slanted towards dual-income householders. If you're single you're pretty much relegated to a 1-BR apartment for the rest of your life. For God's sake I know single people (including my boss) making $90,000 who are still living in 1-BR apartments. I have 22-year-old fresh college graduate peers who are already in the process of purchasing their first homes back in Pennsylvania. It's just frustrating to see them living so happily with just a tiny patch of grass to put a flamingo in while down here I'm just "waiting for tomorrow to get better" listening to people shout at each other in Spanish half the time and shaking my head at plastic-looking 20-somethings hanging out at bars wearing sunglasses at night, talking about their frequent European vacations, and driving the BMW that mommy and daddy bought for them on their 21st birthdays. When DOES it finally get better here for those of us busting our humps trying to work our way up from nothing?

I'm sorry but DC doesn't need a skyline. That's part of what makes this area unique. Not to mention the rest of the area isnt' bound by the skyscraper rule so there are plenty of tall buildings in Rosslyn and Crystal City, along with a random tall building in Falls Church in the Skyline area.

Actually I think DC is way more centralized than other cities such as Atlanta or Houston. I've met plenty of people who work in the city and live in VA or MD. Also most people who I've met who work in VA usually work in areas that have clusters of employers such as Crystal City or Tysons. Although I will say that improving suburb to suburb transit would make traffic a little better.

As far as the cost of living, yes it is expensive to live in this area. There's not a lot that one can do about that. So look at what you can do versus things that can't be helped like real estate prices. The argument has been made that basically DC just isn't "cool" enough to warrant the high prices. The thing is that simple supply and demand are what make the prices so high. I'm currently trying to move back inside the beltway and well I'm willing to pay a little extra money for the convenience of being close to work lots of folks are doing this so that drives up the prices. I'm sorry but the friends in PA are just blessed, most 22 year olds can't afford a house no matter what part of the country they live.

Looks to me like a lot of wannabes who want to live in DC, but not pay the price. DC has houses, condos and apartments available. They are priced based upon supply and demand. If your "demand" isn't such that it will pay the price others are willing to pay, then you should quit complaining and find someplace else to live. Nobody owes you a house in DC at the price you want to pay.

Due to the lack of a skyline we are left with a very decentralized network of employers, and all of the suburb-to-suburb commuting has made efficient mass transit planning here impossible (leading to our second-worst traffic congestion in the nation and some of the nation's worst sprawl). Just about every other great city in our nation also has a great network of suburbs where you're not ONLY relegated to the "fake" American Dream sort of environment. (NYC, Boston, Chicago, and Philly immediately come to mind). I also hear "That's the price one must pay to live here...." (with the voice trailing off snootily in the end as if DC is and should be only a playground for the elite. I don't get that one either.

The problem with decentralized suburban development is not specific to DC area by far. The same picture can be seen pretty much in every major metro area of the US. Take the Bay Area with its Silicon Valley and Pleasanton Dublin corridor, with horrible traffic in every direction and lack of public inter-suburban transport because BART requires you to connect at 'hubs' located in the city of SF or Oakland making it a useless form of transportation in between the busiest populated suburbs of East Bay. Marin county doesn't even have any form of rail public transport at all and to get anywhere outside of this area to have to get stuck on bridges, which IMO is much much worse than having an option of taking side roads and multiple little highways scattered around DC area not served by Metro.

Take LA with its system of 'villages' and offices scattered all over the area with traffic in every single direction at rush hour, you will not find an 'empty' highway at busy times of the day in LA no matter which direction you go. Same can be said about Seattle with its suburban office parks in Renton and Bellevue, etc. Dallas has it's own share of offices outside of the main downtown area, so does Atlanta. Not familiar with Chicago, but pretty sure people living there can attest to the same.

As far as pretentiousness and all the other stuff you refer to, it's pretty much the same everywhere. Believe me, the upper middle class suburbs in Bay Area, LA or DC or even the beloved NYC area isn't going to be much different in the amount of luxury cars, soccer moms and the overall vibe. It just is going to have different weather, foliage, and architecture for the houses and the strip malls, but that's about it.

It's this very same attitude I've heard time after time ad nauseum on this forum that I really don't understand. "Most powerful city in the world?" Why does Metro DC have such a high opinion of itself? With all due respect while DC is a great city in its own right once you get outside the Beltway the rest of the metro area is largely a typical soulless suburban armpit with the typical McMansions, SUVs, and strip malls with very few exceptions. Due to the lack of a skyline we are left with a very decentralized network of employers, and all of the suburb-to-suburb commuting has made efficient mass transit planning here impossible (leading to our second-worst traffic congestion in the nation and some of the nation's worst sprawl). Just about every other great city in our nation also has a great network of suburbs where you're not ONLY relegated to the "fake" American Dream sort of environment. (NYC, Boston, Chicago, and Philly immediately come to mind). I also hear "That's the price one must pay to live here...." (with the voice trailing off snootily in the end as if DC is and should be only a playground for the elite. I don't get that one either.

I'm likely to be single for a good majority of my life. How can someone like me, even on a $100,000 salary with my MBA and CPA, comfortably afford a modest home here? I've said it before and I'll say it again, DC's housing market is unfairly slanted towards dual-income householders. If you're single you're pretty much relegated to a 1-BR apartment for the rest of your life. For God's sake I know single people (including my boss) making $90,000 who are still living in 1-BR apartments. I have 22-year-old fresh college graduate peers who are already in the process of purchasing their first homes back in Pennsylvania. It's just frustrating to see them living so happily with just a tiny patch of grass to put a flamingo in while down here I'm just "waiting for tomorrow to get better" listening to people shout at each other in Spanish half the time and shaking my head at plastic-looking 20-somethings hanging out at bars wearing sunglasses at night, talking about their frequent European vacations, and driving the BMW that mommy and daddy bought for them on their 21st birthdays. When DOES it finally get better here for those of us busting our humps trying to work our way up from nothing?

Absolutely couldn't agree with you anymore, D.C. is overpriced for what you get especially at new york city prices.

Well, you can't really say "at new york city prices" when you aren't including Manhattan. Sorry, that it isn't a fair comparison even though it serves your argument. When you include Manhattan your argument of cost of living being more expensive is going to fly out of the window.

You still haven't provided any sound reason of why you are excluding Manhattan from your comparison. Manhattan is what most people associate New York city with, for most there isn't much of NYC outside of Manhattan unless you are actually from that area or have associations to it.

If you ask anyone what they think about the cost of living in NYC, chances are they will be talking about Manhattan.

I used to live in Arlington just outside of DC. I paid the luxury tax and when the lease was up I carried myself right outside the beltway. Though it may be less convenient, I enjoy the extra 40% of my rent in my pocket.

If you ask anyone what they think about the cost of living in NYC, chances are they will be talking about Manhattan.

Please, let's not have this argument in this thread too. There's already a thread (which has long since outlived its usefulness) where this guy can go on about his skewed perspectives on the NY-DC cost comparison.

Well, you can't really say "at new york city prices" when you aren't including Manhattan. Sorry, that it isn't a fair comparison even though it serves your argument. When you include Manhattan your argument of cost of living being more expensive is going to fly out of the window.

You still haven't provided any sound reason of why you are excluding Manhattan from your comparison. Manhattan is what most people associate New York city with, for most there isn't much of NYC outside of Manhattan unless you are actually from that area or have associations to it.

That's not true, many new yorkers don't even live in manhattan or visit it often for because of jobs, if people outside of new york think new yorkers are always obsessed with Manhattan than its because they have a bias or stereotype, much like Forbes magazine.

You can't directly compare Manhattan for several reasons because of its core being much different from D.C.'s and reasons that affect it,

The statement that there is not much outside Manhattan is a bit ignorant, D.C. is arguably better compared to Brooklyn, there are a lot of things that are not in Manhattan but in other boroughs, Manhattan has a big "core" so in order to sometimes get out of the core you have to go to other boroughs. Also, Manhattan does not have the same middle-management housing that D.C. has and has lack of comparable properties

If you ask anyone what they think about the cost of living in NYC, chances are they will be talking about Manhattan.

It depends, from a global perspective probably, buts its wrong, also don't forget that new york city's address structure is different, people think new york city is equivalent to "new york,ny" which refers to Manhattan because new york city is a big city, and doesn't have the same address designation when people refer to cities that are often located within a county. The same can be said about places in LA, chicago, and parts of D.C. although there land area is much smaller so its not as much as a problem

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