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As I said earlier, we're dealing with companies and as such, one has practically a monopoly on the upper-rung of the sport. I believe we can all concede that.

When you're dealing with companies who are not bound by a trade group, jurisdictions, or any type of trade group, they control the product and are able to feed it to the public with little or no question on whether or not the product is quality. A second viable entity would immediately cause the commanding company to examine its product and elevate its quality to maintain its market control.

Rivalries are based on history and growing a product from the ground up creates these situations.

I agree that I always want to see the best fight the best and I want it right now but that's a very short-sighted. What is far better for the sport is for two great fighters to build a legacy and for them to eventually face off. However, the current Zuffa model would never support that regardless of the concessions of another company to co-promote. I believe DFW and the Fertittas learned their lesson when their golden boy Chuck ate canvas in Japan and couldn't even earn a shot at Wanderlei.

I believe the Co Promotion went out the window after Dana and the Fertittas tried it again, this time in the UFC, even going so far as having Wandy in the octagon only to have have Pride him him from the fight against Chuck. It turned out they were just using the spot as a way to promote Wandy before hosting there on card in the States

I agree that I always want to see the best fight the best and I want it right now but that's a very short-sighted. What is far better for the sport is for two great fighters to build a legacy and for them to eventually face off. However, the current Zuffa model would never support that regardless of the concessions of another company to co-promote. I believe DFW and the Fertittas learned their lesson when their golden boy Chuck ate canvas in Japan and couldn't even earn a shot at Wanderlei.

Oh so true.

It is/was possible for them to co-promote but a glans-shaped, bald-headed ego sits at the helm. Fedor. M-1 was peanuts and still is. It would not have hurt business whatsoever if Fedor won, on the other hand his ego would be black and blue.

It is/was possible for them to co-promote but a glans-shaped, bald-headed ego sits at the helm. Fedor. M-1 was peanuts and still is. It would not have hurt business whatsoever if Fedor won, on the other hand his ego would be black and blue.

Co-promotion with M1 would not have been beneficial for the UFC and would have just taken rights and money out their pocket in the long run. Ther's been no real upside for any organization that worked in the past with M1 outside of a few mid tier russian fighters filling out cards.

Co-promotion with M1 would not have been beneficial for the UFC and would have just taken rights and money out their pocket in the long run. Ther's been no real upside for any organization that worked in the past with M1 outside of a few mid tier russian fighters filling out cards.

The UFC would be catering to their fanbase rather than to their pockets. Would hardly have hurt their pockets outside of Fedor's salary.

The UFC was burned by Pride once before, hence no co-promotion moving forward.

Pride tried to co-promote. The fertittas' gaming licenses made it impossible due to sakikabara's questionable ties. That's why chuck was able to fight under the pride banner (I believe ricco too) but not the other way around.

You say shark I say hey man, Jaws was never my scene and I don't like Star Wars

The UFC would be catering to their fanbase rather than to their pockets. Would hardly have hurt their pockets outside of Fedor's salary.

The UFC would have been giving up video/broadcasting rights in terms of Fedor's fights as well as paying M1 directly for Fedor fighting on top of giving up advertising space and signage for M1 that could have been used for sponsors that were actually paying them and not vice versa.

The ufc would have gained more exposure in one event than you could ever imagine. Look up the numbers for the strikeforce event in Russia.

In the long term how did that benefit Strikeforce though? If this great exposure was such a valuable thing why didn't Strikeforce end up surviving?

M1 may have given Strikeforce exposure in Russia but it was far from a financial windfall as the credit and my understanding revenue stream from it was going to M1. If what M1 was of great value and a big boost to SF they wouldn't have folded instead they followed suit with the other promotions that M1 had previously worked with. Granted Affliction had other issues but it's not like M1 stepped up and saved the day there either

Why can't we just live in a world where promoters are honest, fighters fight to finish, and PPV cards are only $10 each?

Are you putting the U-for-Utopia in UFC?

Originally Posted by Rise

Co-promotion with M1 would not have been beneficial for the UFC and would have just taken rights and money out their pocket in the long run. Ther's been no real upside for any organization that worked in the past with M1 outside of a few mid tier russian fighters filling out cards.

How many organizations are you talking about?

Originally Posted by SimpleJack

Pride tried to co-promote. The fertittas' gaming licenses made it impossible due to sakikabara's questionable ties. That's why chuck was able to fight under the pride banner (I believe ricco too) but not the other way around.

Yes. But I think Sak was referring to PRIDE selling them a box of letterhead without any fighter contracts.

Originally Posted by Rise

In the long term how did that benefit Strikeforce though? If this great exposure was such a valuable thing why didn't Strikeforce end up surviving?

Strikeforce ended up failing because of zuffa's unwillingness to promote it. It had nothing to do with lack of exposure. Their business model--including working with M1, negotiating with DREAM, etc--got them to the point where they were a viable threat to the UFC and necessitated the Fertitta's taking direct action by buying it out.

[QUOTE]M1 may have given Strikeforce exposure in Russia but it was far from a financial windfall as the credit and my understanding revenue stream from it was going to M1. [QUOTE]
I haven't seen the books--and neither have you, I'd bet--but I heard differently. The bulk of the money went to M1, but there was back end for SF. And much like zuffa's current model of losing money to pimp fights in new markets, that's part of an expansion phase with business. Most importantly, it didn't cost SF money, as it's costing zuffa--thus necessitating the initial cost hike for zuffa's products.

If what M1 was of great value and a big boost to SF they wouldn't have folded instead they followed suit with the other promotions that M1 had previously worked with. Granted Affliction had other issues but it's not like M1 stepped up and saved the day there either

Your effect doesn't equate with your cause.
You're thinking short-term, much like zuffa's current plan.
Your entirely overlooking an antagonistic relationship with zuffa, counter-programming, a vicious pogram of slander and disparagement from dana among a huge body of [ignorant] fight fans, etc.

Co-promotion can certainly work. It wouldn't work in the current business model of zuffa and many of the smaller orgs. You'd need a lot of more genuinely confident--but not ego-driven--CEOs to look at the end product and the long term instead of short term, fear-based--how-does-this-make-ME-look-mentalities. Which is exactly what you're getting with dana.

rh

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