Can You Renounce Salvation

For those who believe in once saved always saved, is there a possibility that a person could renounce his salvation thereby losing it? Where one renounces his belief that Jesus is the Son of God, and becomes an atheist, or worse a satanist?

"And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from doing them good, "but I will put My fear in their hearts so that they will not depart from Me" Everyone under the New Covenant is sustain by God's power. "They will not depart from Me" you say they do. Then you are not under the New Covenant.---Mark_V. on 9/23/13

Keep on reading the book of Jeremiah God will not stop you from leaving:

"But they did not listen or pay attention, they did not turn from their wickedness or stop burning incense to other gods."Jer 44:5

When His Truth is revealed- confirmed By Him - what ever action that one has done can not work against God's plan of deliverance.

He has chosen those before the foundation of this world as "His witness"

so that "Who so ever believes"

...follows His WordJn 3:16 Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Ruben, you say,"Yes God prepared the works beforehand but we have to walk to them and do it ourselfs, he does not walk for us." That is true, but He is the One that guides us and moves us by the Spirit to do the good works when He puts the fear of God in us, that is why He get the glory and honor for our works, not us. Did you not read the New Covenant? "And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from doing them good, "but I will put My fear in their hearts so that they will not depart from Me" Everyone under the New Covenant is sustain by God's power. "They will not depart from Me" you say they do. Then you are not under the New Covenant.

Ruben, again I say that salvation is not depended upon my works. "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God, not of works, lest anyone boast" (Eph. 2:8,9). Then you say,"But these works are what we do not God!God does not love,confess, forgive or believe for us, we have to do it ourselfs."Here is my answer,"For we (believers) are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them" (Eph. 2:10).

"But yet Jesus,Paul and james tells us we will be judge according to our works!" believers at the "Judgment Seat of Christ" for rewards. Unbelievers at the "Great White Throne of Judgment" for sentencing. Then you say, "Really then why does scripture tell us we must to enter the Kingdom of heaven: It does not say that at all. You give,"" IF we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purity us from all unrighteousness"(1JHN 1:9)" Those who confess their sins are believers already. Unbelievers do not confess to someone they do not believe.

Ruben, just so that you know, my salvation is not dependent upon my works, it is dependent upon God. I can never be good enough, no one can. You don't believe in God sustaining you, but only because you believe in penances to get you in to the kingdom of God, your own works. You say,"Do we or not have to ask for forgiveness" I do ask for forgiveness, not because I have to, to enter heaven, but because as a child of God, the Spirit convicts me of sin, for failing God and I am sorry I have. Every time I sin, I feel I have failed Him. God chastens all His children when they sin. If you are not chasten, then you are illegitimate and not a son of God.

Mark_V. Ruben, you say,"Aren't you spiritually dead when you sin against Heaven and God? No, if you are a believer in Christ. All human beings sin. All come short of the glory of God. But believers are not under the law, "For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God" (Gal. 2:19).

Your OSAS really has you blind so much that they teach when you sin against God and heaven you still have a ticket to heaven.

Mark_V. But we are saved by Grace through faith. Not by asking forgiveness. Only those who are already Spiritually alive to God ask for forgiveness. Unbelievers don't.

Ruben, you say,"Aren't you spiritually dead when you sin against Heaven and God? No, if you are a believer in Christ. All human beings sin. All come short of the glory of God. But believers are not under the law, "For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God" (Gal. 2:19). Then say:

"Answer: When he ask the Father to give him his share!God is forgivng but you have to ask for forgiveness, he does not do it for you! ---Ruben on 9/17/13" You say that because you believe you are saved by your own works. But we are saved by Grace through faith. Not by asking forgiveness. Only those who are already Spiritually alive to God ask for forgiveness. Unbelievers don't.

when a person is born of the Spirit, they will never go back. there is just something about being saved that is so joyful. I wouldn't go back for nothing in the world. I have peace and joy and God has been with me when I was in a deep valley.

Ruben, now you say,"You become dead when you leave your Fathers hands" Where does it say that? Nowhere. That is nonsense since you do not become dead, how? If a person leaves his father he does not become dead. This guy was very much alive suffering because he had spend all he had. All he wanted to do now was to repent for disobeying and be back with his family. All born again believers sin and they also repent. God is always forgiving. You are making salvation dependent upon man and not God. When God saves you, you will never perish.

Sister Lidia, you asked,"It just came to my mind - any help will be appreciated. Does God put out this person who maybe mentally gives up?? Under stress??" Of course not. You have to remember that our salvation is not depended upon our works, no matter what they are, it is depended upon God. Our works does not save us are makes us lose our salvation. We are saved by grace through faith. As believers our works can get us in trouble, and the consequences could be great, but we are never lost.

The prodigal son knew his shepperd and his concience seeing what he hadbecome, his will turned his steps towards home to plead with his father ifjust for the wages of a common hireling.

In Luke 15 early, the shepperd left the flock to rescue the one sheep. Even although he searched for the sheep, the summation of the parable is the same as that of the prodigal son: "I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance."

Ruben, . Just like the lost sheep parable. The father leaves the rest and goes to search for the one lost.

And Jesus tell us "There will be more rejoicing in Heaven over one sinner who repents than over the ninety nine who does not need to repent."

Mark V* The same holds true here. he was dead to the Father because he did not know where he was at. He had not died physically, since he was suffering out there. He was spiritually dead, but now that he repented he is alive !

You become dead when you leave your Fathers hands. Notice the Father said who was dead and is ALIVE AGAIN.

Which means he was saved at first but then was dead spiritually until he repented of his sins and is alive again...

Ruben, When one of the chosen ones is born, they are born dead in trespasses and sins, just like all others. Just like the lost sheep parable. The father leaves the rest and goes to search for the one lost. The same holds true here. The son was always a son, he was dead to the Father because he did not know where he was at. He had not died physically, since he was suffering out there. He was spiritually dead, but now that he repented he is alive to the Father, and a big celebration takes place, just like every time one of the chosen is saved, heaven rejoices. The young son symbolizes the one who is saved, the older one symbolizes the pharisees, and hypocritics.

pastor eric, you are right on. I have eternal life and that means forever and ever. God may kill me but I am going to heaven to spend eternity with God. people who are saved know they have eternal life.

My saying is once "truly" saved always saved. you know a tree by its fruit. Also whats in the Fathers hand cant be plucked out---Pastor_Eric on 9/15/13

Pastor Eric,

The scripture verse what in the Fathers hand can't be plucked out does not say and he can't leave if you choose!

In Lk 15 in the Parable of the lost Son, he was in the Fathers hand but wanted out " Father, give me my share of the estate "V 15:11 and notice the father granted his wish "So he divided his property"V 11

Now when the Son repented the Father says "For my son was DEAD and is ALIVE AGAIN"V 24 _ Truly saved always saved-

I think so. But most just lose their life on the earth for not understand what they sow they will reap. What is the fruit of sowing to sin? What is the fruit of sowing the Gospel? Jesus said I sets before you life or death choice life he said. Salvation is "Soteria" Greek, and it is a big word as big as love if not bigger. Understand what salvation has given back to you is not a mystery. God Bless.

Ok not to start an argument but then is their levels of sin. Would killing someone lose my salvation faster than say...slip up out of temptation and take an illegal drug. My saying is once "truly" saved always saved. you know a tree by its fruit. Also whats in the Fathers hand cant be plucked out

Yes, I can tell you for a sure that a person can renounce ones salvation. God gave me a dream yesterday. My mom did just that. Guess where she is right now. I can not for the first time bring myself to say the H word. You can lose your salvation. A warning for you, Christians.

Heb 10:23, 26-27 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering, (for he is faithful that promised,).... For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Once upon a time a king had a pet pig. The king was unhappy because the pig smelled likd a pig and was dirty. So the pig was given a bath and made to smell nice. The king took the pig for a walk and the pig hit the first mud hole he could find. He smelled like a pig again. (He had a pigs heart so he acted like a pig.) Moral-If the heart isn't changed, neather is the person.

Many that argue that they can lose salvation, must believe you can be born again many times. They have to in order to make their statments correct. If one sin sents you to hell, and you can repent and go to heaven, then it supposes that we can do that many times since all Christians sin. Pastor Herb is correct with his answers. people that believe they can lose salvation cannot reconcile the half of Scripture. They have to destroy many texts to stay with what they believe.

B. the story in Matthew 12:43-45 concerns, "the last state of that man been worse than the first" The problem is that the evil spirit found the house "empty" verse 44. Empty does not mean he was saved, for to the believer we are the temple of the Holy Spirit. If he was saved, he would have the Holy Spirit and the place would not be empty. This is a description of someone who attempts moral reform without ever been indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Reform apart from regeneration

C. is never effective and eventually reverts back to pre-reform behavior. Just what Pastor Herb explained that those who went from us, were not of us. The same holds true in today's churches. Many that try out of their own strength to reform themselves without the Spirit, will also revert back to who they were before. Our own works don't save us, the works of the Spirit in our lives is the evidence that we are the temple of the Holy Spirit. And He gets the glory.

Herb; That was an isolated situation pertaining to that person. People get salvation, and then can fall into permanent sin, this is known as a "backslider" I do not go for erronious doctrines and fallacy, Many people who go into these dead Christian churches with no power are then happy to backslide into a cult that can give them supernatural powers. Wake Up!!! We are suppose to be HOLY, SUPERNATURALY POWERFUL ABOVE THE POWERS OF DARKNESS.

Herb; that isn't true. Mt 12:43-45, tells us that when an unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walks through dry places, and says that he will return into the house that he came out of, and he found it empty, swept and garnish and he takes 7 other spirits with him making that person worse than before. Meaning that a person had to have been saved to begin in order for those spirits to can come back into that house. Why do you believe that way?

1 John 2:18-19 18Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

19They(anti-Christs) went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

1Jo2:19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

If we say we are a Christian and go back into the world never to repent then we were never truely born again.

In the bible, it talks about the 100 sheep and one went astray. Jesus didn't say Oh look a sheep has gone astray, he'll come back eventually...I hope. He went and looked for that lost sheep, and when he found it he rejoiced more over that one sheep that went astray than he did over the 99 sheep that didn't. Lk 15:3-7. God will never leave nor forsake us. this includes the ones that have gone astray (backslide) they still belong to God.

Mima,did you skip the passage before it? It also speaks to someone who is saved because the same "we" in verse 13 is used.2 Timothy 2:1212If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Clearly denying and lacking faith isn't the same thing. They are two different things in this context! Unfaithfullness is probably talking about dwindling faith in the midst of trials etc. It isn't talking about someone who is loving to sin.

In order to answer this consider question; please consider second Timothy 2:13," If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself." Obviously the Scripture speaks to someone who is saved, and it clearly states that once saved a person becomes apart of Jesus. And if other states that Jesus cannot deny himself. Case closed!!

This is why just believeing is not enough to get you to Heaven. You must be born-again. Resurrected to a new life. How can someone renounce that Jesus is the Son of God when He lives in you, and you have experienced true salvation. I said true Salvation.

(Deuteronomy 31)16And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, ....and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land...and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.

17Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them,

God does forsake those who forsake Him.Those who remain in Him he will never leave or forsake.

Pastor Herb, I'm sure there will be many things that you and I disagree on but you are correct that God will never leave us or forsake us. But, He gave man free will...therefore if we chose to leave Him, in staying with His Nature He cannot force us to come back. We choose to accept Him and can also choose to deny Him. I can't imagine life without Him yet there are those who have walked away. 1Tim 4:1 says there will be some who will walk away. Also 2Tim 2:12.

I went to the slave market and purchased you. You now belong to me. You decide you won't work for me and you leave. Guess what? You are still my slave, my property. Just because you left does no change the fact I bought you with a price.

I thought you said those who left the faithand went back to living in sin for good were never saved to begin with? SO now they you are saying they will be saved?

I went to the slave market and purchased you. You now belong to me. You decide you won't work for me and you leave. Guess what? You are still my slave, my property. Just because you left does no change the fact I bought you with a price.

God said he would never leave us, or forsake us. If we can leave God, then we become more powerful than God.

Betty, Gal. 5:4 does not prove you can loose your salvation, it is talking about being justified by the law. Read verses 1-3 and several after 4. It is not talking about loosing your salvation if saved by grace. RIGHTLY DIVID.

Gal. 5:4 Hebs.6:4-6 2Thes. 2:3 1Cor.9:27 It is possible for one to lose his salvation.According to these Scriptures. It is also possible for someone to turn their back on Jesus. It's called free-will. True, nothing can separate us from the the love of God, that's why He sent Jesus. But we can separate ourselves from Jesus and the salvation He brought us.

Not sure I would believe anyone who confessed to be a christian would backslide that far.but who knows.only blaspheming the holy spirit is un pardonable, or not forgiven.this means saying that the work of the holy spirit has been performed by satan or satans demons.

Backsliding does not occur overnight. satan is very sneaky. We all battle the flesh and we all give in to it at times. God's grace is sufficient- but only to the truly repentant heart. He alone knows the state of ones heart. HE knows if you go out "living it up" because you have not been truly born again, or if you just gave in to temptation and fleshly desires, and HE also knows if repentance is sincere.

People say that the OSAS feel they can live in sin bacause they won't loose there salvation. If you are rightly saved you won't want to live in sin. If I can loose my salvation then then then what is stopping from living it up tonight and loose my salvation and repenting tomorror and getting it back?

Herb- "I have talked to preachers who became atheist and they they had never been born again"

Did you mean to say "and they SAY they had never..." because if so, then here's your perfect example of blasphemy. Their conscience has been seared with a hot iron, the Bible says. They've believed a lie, and are dammed. Matt 10:22 says..."but he that endureth TO THE END shall be saved."

Joseph- were you talking to me in response to my comment? I beg to differ with you. A person cannot be held accountable for the sin of blashpemy unless he KNOWS what he's speaking blasphemies about. The unsaved cannot commit the unpardonable sin of blasphemy, because they have never known the Lord and the Holy Spirit in order to turn thier back on him and renounce him- they walk in ignorance.

How many here know who Sam Kinnison is (was)? If not, he was the most filthy mouthed, dirty minded "comedian" in the business several years back, who made Howard Stern look like a chior boy. A lot of Sam Kinnison's material was blashphemic in nature, being known to shoot the finger at God and scream related obsceneties at him in is "comedy" acts. He used to be a Pentecostal preacher. He died an athiest

#2 Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance( in v. 4 it says it is impossible, therefore if this was talking about backsliders, they wouldn't be able to come back to the Lord) ; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.(Jesus died once for all, it only takes the once, we don't need to keep going back to the Cross to be saved over and over again.)

Heb 6:4-6 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened(sat under the teaching of the gospel unto salvation), and have tasted (they got enough to know it was good food, but not enough to sustain life)of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers(shared or participated in the blessings, but not actually received because they weren't saved) of the Holy Ghost,

Heb 6:5 And have tasted (again not getting enough to sustain life) the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

#2 Phil.1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: It doesn't say He will perform it until the day He leaves you because you were no longer good enough to be saved. Once you are saved, you are Christ's and He has a tight grip on you, He won't let go. It is called ONCE SAVED, NEVER LOST!

#1 I am one of those OSAS folks, and yes, the standard answer is: "They were not saved to begin with." The reason for that answeris because it is the truth. I believed for many years that I could lose my salvation and then God showed me that the New Life that was born in me is holy and without sin and cannot be lost. Jesus cannot abort Himself and it is Him that is born in us.

Yes. Hebrews 6:4-6. If a person decides to depart the faith God can't stop them. They have a free-will. Just like we have a freewill to get saved. Hebrews 6:4-6 is talking about someone out of their own free-will giving up salvation.But why would someone want to give salvation up???

1Co5:5To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

1Jo5:16If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

Salvation is a type of covenant(legal contract) and the person on the other side of the covenant is God. And he will keep his agreement with you(no man can snatch out of my hands) so if you have ever enjoyed being in God's hands, you can rest assured that you will always be in God's hands and join him in heaven when your days here are done. Please read second Timothy 2:13 or a deeper understanding.