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Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

How different is this than the scandals which have rocked the Catholic Church over the years?

Even the most ardent Catholics, a much higher calling than to be a Nittany Lion fan, call for the heads of the priests identified in public. And the higher ups are often accused of turning away or just transferring the culprit.

I'll never understand how such corruption can take place in ANY organization.

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
~ Mark Twain

Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

I hold the University President much more culpable than the football coach. The football coach doesn't own his locker room/showers. The University does.

The football coach is in charge of the locker room and showers. If anything, he is more culpable because he is paid to be culpable. I'm pretty sure that when the President and BOTs agree to tender a contract to a football coach, the expectation is that the rape of children will not be condoned in the athletic facilities the coach is granted...

"This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

Originally Posted by Roy Tucker

But I would fire him now. I don't think he deserves to finish off the season. He failed many people very badly.

So you'd treat him like he had the resume of Luke Fickell. All he's done for the school is down the drain. Isn't losing his job enough? What good does it do to fire him tonight? Does that help the little boys who were abused? What it does do is increase the victims list to include all the current PSU players, coaches and others associated with the program. I think you're hurting a lot more innocent people by handling it that way.

Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

So you'd treat him like he had the resume of Luke Fickell. All he's done for the school is down the drain. Isn't losing his job enough? What good does it do to fire him tonight? Does that help the little boys who were abused? What it does do is increase the victims list to include all the current PSU players, coaches and others associated with the program. I think you're hurting a lot more innocent people by handling it that way.

You want the buck to stop with the President but you want it to leap over the head of the football program. Makes. Little. Sense.

"This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

If you saw that, and then saw the guy around later, you would know that something isn't right. If you did nothing at that point, you are then in on not doing the right thing. Period.

You're being a bit loose with the facts. "If you saw that..." what did Paterno see? Not to be nit picky but I think that's an important disctinction. If it was Paterno that caught Sandusky in the act, I'd agree with you

Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

So you'd treat him like he had the resume of Luke Fickell. All he's done for the school is down the drain. Isn't losing his job enough? What good does it do to fire him tonight? Does that help the little boys who were abused? What it does do is increase the victims list to include all the current PSU players, coaches and others associated with the program. I think you're hurting a lot more innocent people by handling it that way.

What good does it do to fire him tonight? It first and foremost shows that no one is bigger than the university.

No matter how you slice it, the current players are going to be "victims" of this. Joe Paterno isn't the coach of this team and he hasn't been for a few years now. He is a puppet that they sit up.

And at the end of the day, a college football game or two being lost because of this sucks for the players and they might even be mad about it at the time, but one day they will be able to fully understand why it happened and understand that it was the best thing to do. If I were a player on that team, I would be holding a team only meeting right now and organizing players to follow my lead and tell the school that I am not playing for Joe or any other coach who was known to have knowledge about this situation. Football is a game, even one that we are very passionate about. But at the end of the day, it is still just a game and there are things a lot bigger going on here.

Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

Originally Posted by savafan

Is it possible that he thought his superiors did investigate and they didn't find anything worth taking any further. Honestly, without Mike McQueary to come forward to give a statement to the police on what he saw, everyone else's hands were somewhat tied as far as what they could do. The major outrage here has to be toward Sandusky, but second to be culpable for the now reported 20 victims would have to be McQueary.

Good point and one I've considered as well. Let's say after Joe Pa reported it he notices that Sandusky hasn't been arrested. It would be fair for him to assume that the charges were deemed to be unfounded--in other words don't believe everything you hear. Just because someone told him this happened doesn't mean it really did. Joe Pa's got a lot on his plate with running the football team so he leaves it at that and doesn't give it another thought. I think that's very plausible.

Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

You're being a bit loose with the facts. "If you saw that..." what did Paterno see? Not to be nit picky but I think that's an important disctinction. If it was Paterno that caught Sandusky in the act, I'd agree with you

No. Paterno was told by someone of what happened. He didn't have to see it. What Paterno saw was the man he was told was fondling a young boy in a shower roaming around his campus after he reportedly took it to his AD. There is no need for distinction there.

Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

Originally Posted by jojo

The football coach is in charge of the locker room and showers. If anything, he is more culpable because he is paid to be culpable. I'm pretty sure that when the President and BOTs agree to tender a contract to a football coach, the expectation is that the rape of children will not be condoned in the athletic facilities the coach is granted...

This happened in the off season and had nothing to do with the football program. Joe Pa was no where near the facility when this happened. Again, he didn't try to keep this secret to save his buddy or anything. He immediately told the higher ups. If they'd done the investigation and called the police, everyone would be praising Joe Pa today for having handled this properly. Aside from the guy who saw the act and could have stopped it, the villan(s) is the PSU officials

Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

What good does it do to fire him tonight? It first and foremost shows that no one is bigger than the university.

No matter how you slice it, the current players are going to be "victims" of this. Joe Paterno isn't the coach of this team and he hasn't been for a few years now. He is a puppet that they sit up.

And at the end of the day, a college football game or two being lost because of this sucks for the players and they might even be mad about it at the time, but one day they will be able to fully understand why it happened and understand that it was the best thing to do. If I were a player on that team, I would be holding a team only meeting right now and organizing players to follow my lead and tell the school that I am not playing for Joe or any other coach who was known to have knowledge about this situation. Football is a game, even one that we are very passionate about. But at the end of the day, it is still just a game and there are things a lot bigger going on here.

I totally disagree with you but I respect where you're coming from. I understand your points and they are well intentioned.

Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

This happened in the off season and had nothing to do with the football program. Joe Pa was no where near the facility when this happened. Again, he didn't try to keep this secret to save his buddy or anything. He immediately told the higher ups. If they'd done the investigation and called the police, everyone would be praising Joe Pa today for having handled this properly. Aside from the guy who saw the act and could have stopped it, the villan(s) is the PSU officials

It had everything to do with football program. The dean of Linebacker U assaulted a child in Joe Pa's locker room. It's not like Paterno was traveling the country in an RV when this happened....

"This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

ESPN is reporting that Paterno is out and won't be allowed to finish the season.

"This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

A defensive coordinator raped a 10 year old boy in the team shower. He then used his Penn State fame to recruit kids to football camps at Penn State branch campuses where he identified kids he could take advantage of. It has everything to do with the football program. Paterno and the coach who witnessed this first hand should be in legal trouble. Kids were raped because these two didn't push the issue. If Paterno's grandson had been violated by a 58 year old man in the shower at Penn State you think JoePa would have acted a little differently? This is disgusting.

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