Rebel is 45 ibus, 6.5% so that may explain the lower hop perception to a degree.

Yeah, that gives it a BU:GU of ~ .69 . Pretty pale ale-ish. And I love APA - it's a great style. Just thrown by the West Coast IPA sales pitch. Having said all that, it's not a bad tasting beer.

I had the same debate over one of my beer I entered in competition. I brewed it as an IPA and it's numbers are similar. It's right in the middle of the IPA style for abv and IBU, but the bitterness was very gentle. It's also at the high end for pale ale, because there is overlap. I decided it would do better as a pale ale.

But like I said, restrained bitterness is my impression of west coast IPA too.

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Delmarva United Homebrewers - President by inverse coup - former president ousted himself.AHA Member since 2006BJCP Certified: B0958

But like I said, restrained bitterness is my impression of west coast IPA too.

WHAT???

That was my thought, Denny. Now granted my sample size was restricted to California and not the PNW, but I took a trip out West a few years back and tried alot of the high profile beers out there - Alpine, Ballast Point, Stone, Bear Republic, Russian River, etc. - and found them to be among the hoppiest ( and best) I ever had.... by far. Bitterness on those IPAs was moderately high to melt your face. And I know not every brewery in the western states makes beers that way, but my impression was that a lot do. They're definitely not scared of hops at those breweries. Those are actually the IPAs I try to emulate today.

That was my thought, Denny. Now granted my sample size was restricted to California and not the PNW, but I took a trip out West a few years back and tried alot of the high profile beers out there - Alpine, Ballast Point, Stone, Bear Republic, Russian River, etc. - and found them to be among the hoppiest ( and best) I ever had.... by far. Bitterness on those IPAs was moderately high to melt your face. And I know not every brewery in the western states makes beers that way, but my impression was that a lot do. They're definitely not scared of hops at those breweries. Those are actually the IPAs I try to emulate today.

Did I misunderstand you? I thought you were saying that west coast beers weren't hoppy.

That was my thought, Denny. Now granted my sample size was restricted to California and not the PNW, but I took a trip out West a few years back and tried alot of the high profile beers out there - Alpine, Ballast Point, Stone, Bear Republic, Russian River, etc. - and found them to be among the hoppiest ( and best) I ever had.... by far. Bitterness on those IPAs was moderately high to melt your face. And I know not every brewery in the western states makes beers that way, but my impression was that a lot do. They're definitely not scared of hops at those breweries. Those are actually the IPAs I try to emulate today.

Did I misunderstand you? I thought you were saying that west coast beers weren't hoppy.

I was saying that SA new Rebel IPA, which passes itself off as a 'West Coast IPA', isn't very hoppy at all, after actually trying West Coast beers that clearly are.