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The problem in the other thread was that for 99% of its life, there was nothing to say about a unit which didn't actually exist. That is no longer then case, hence this thread. It was always inevitable that the other thread would degenerate into OT posts and bickering simply because there was nothing else to say at that time. Discussing the 'technical issues' of a unit which didn't exist, and about which not much was known, was never going to be easy

So far this thread is a usefull as the other one.
Six pages (and counting) of whine and no cheese.

So far this thread is a usefull as the other one.
Six pages (and counting) of whine and no cheese.

You started this thread too early Keith

Could be. But units are now shipping and it seems a fair number of them will be in customers' homes by next week. So maybe soon we can get the real hands-on stuff we are all waiting for. Have you seen the 'beta tester questions' thread on the Lounge? It's a fast-growing thread with a lot of questions posed. People will want answers to those questions, and hopefully in an environment that is not controlled by the manufacturer and not dominated by fanboys.

The real point, and the proper answer to his question, is "we don't know". Currently we have no real idea what Dirac LE is, how Emo have implemented it and how it compares to any other form of Dirac. In 60 days, we may get a bit further with it, assuming, of course, that the 60 day timetable from Emo is adhered to.

The real point, and the proper answer to his question, is "we don't know". Currently we have no real idea what Dirac LE is, how Emo have implemented it and how it compares to any other form of Dirac. In 60 days, we may get a bit further with it, assuming, of course, that the 60 day timetable from Emo is adhered to.

It's that dry Brit humor that rubs yanks the wrong way.
Luckily I'm from a background that also enjoys a dry wit so I personally don't mind.

In reading the manual, I noticed it has somewhat odd bass management. If you tell it you have two subs, then left main, left side surround and left rear surround bass are redirected to the "left sub", while right main, right side surround and right rear surround bass are redirected to the "right sub". If you tell it you have 1 subwoofer, the manual says this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by XMC-1 Manual

If your XMC-1 is configured for a single subwoofer, all of the content intended for both subwoofers will be summed into a single monaural subwoofer output signal, which will be available at both subwoofer outputs. Therefore, a single subwoofer may be connected to either output.

What I wonder is, if you configure it for a single sub, can you still adjust gain and distance trims for the two sub outputs independently? It seems like they may have conflated the concepts of "mono subs" and "single sub".

In reading the manual, I noticed it has somewhat odd bass management. If you tell it you have two subs, then left main, left side surround and left rear surround bass are redirected to the "left sub", while right main, right side surround and right rear surround bass are redirected to the "right sub".

That's standard for stereo subwoofers. My (circa 2001) Lex MC-12 has the option to do stereo subs and has similar bass management.

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyc56

What I wonder is, if you configure it for a single sub, can you still adjust gain and distance trims for the two sub outputs independently? It seems like they may have conflated the concepts of "mono subs" and "single sub".

That would be a good question for the beta testers (there's a dedicated thread at the Lounge to do just that). I'm going to guess that in mono subwoofer mode the two outputs act like an internal Y-splitter (no separate levels or delays).

This is from the Datasat LS,thread If you go further down a few post djnickuk takes a few specs from the xmc, not too sure where he got it at the time frame, but he shows the processing power and compares them to the LS10 DSP chip power, and it's a whole different ball game! Well you can see wide margin in number of processing chips Vs the Emo

Surely is understandable between the prices difference of course, but it looks like I answered my own question.

This is from the Datasat LS,thread If you go further down a few post djnickuk takes a few specs from the xmc, not too sure where he got it at the time frame, but he shows the processing power and compares them to the LS10 DSP chip power, and it's a whole different ball game! Well you can see wide margin in number of processing chips Vs the Emo

Surely is understandable between the prices difference of course, but it looks like I answered my own question.

Djoel

.

Not sure what you mean. (and that font was hard to read)

As I understand it for the XMC the calculations for the curves are done in the cloud.
So given that, how much processing power do you need to maintain the curve data after the calculations are done?
Now it is my understanding that in the datasat unit this is done internally.

So I think what you want to ask is "if given the same room, will I get the same curves using the datasat's internal processing vs the XMC's cloud implementation?"

That I have no clue until someone with a datasat and a XMC in the same room does the test.
And if they are different, that really would be a question for Dirac since they are doing the processing at their cloud servers, no?

At least that is how I logically think of it.
(with my flawed logic as it is)

That I have no clue until someone with a datasat and a XMC in the same room does the test.
And if they are different, that really would be a question for Dirac since they are doing the processing at their cloud servers, no?

At least that is how I logically think of it.
(with my flawed logic as it is)

I have a borrowed Datasat and "when" Dirac is released for the XMC, I will have one of those as well and in the same room. Then we can answer that question. I also have Dirac on my music server so we can compare the results of all three. i would certainly hope that the three results measure REALLY REALLY close

It's that dry Brit humor that rubs yanks the wrong way.
Luckily I'm from a background that also enjoys a dry wit so I personally don't mind.

I've been wondering about that you know. I wonder if some of my 'trouble' over at the Lounge was because of a different cultural style of speaking. I think Brits tend to be more 'straightforward' (in the sense of calling a spade a spade) than Americans, who I find are usually excessively (by our standards) polite. Note, NYC residents need not apply ). You get this with Russians for example. I know a few Russians and some of the blunt things they say raise a lot of eyebrows. But it is just their way of speaking and they mean no offense by it.

I have a borrowed Datasat and "when" Dirac is released for the XMC, I will have one of those as well and in the same room. Then we can answer that question. I also have Dirac on my music server so we can compare the results of all three. i would certainly hope that the three results measure REALLY REALLY close

I've been wondering about that you know. I wonder if some of my 'trouble' over at the Lounge was because of a different cultural style of speaking. I think Brits tend to be more 'straightforward' (in the sense of calling a spade a spade) than Americans, who I find are usually excessively (by our standards) polite. Note, NYC residents need not apply ). You get this with Russians for example. I know a few Russians and some of the blunt things they say raise a lot of eyebrows. But it is just their way of speaking and they mean no offense by it.

I'm sure it plays a factor.
A good coworker of mine is also Russian and I know exactly what you mean.
I get along with him beautifully but I know of many other coworkers who just can't get along with him.
I keep telling him they are taking him the wrong way, but it still doesn't seem to make a difference.
Shame that it happens to work out this way.
I'm born and raised in the US but come from a latin background and dry humor is in our blood.

I am having to go to training in California on the Datasat (as a dealer representative since they do not sell directly to consumers) and that will be in about a month. I will then come home and set up my system and can then start the comparisons. Should be interesting.

I
I keep telling him they are taking him the wrong way, but it still doesn't seem to make a difference.

IKWYM. They don't 'get it'. Someone says something that isn't necessarily true, but innocently, with no intent to deceive and my Russian pals would say, without hesitation "why are you lying?". LOL. Tell them all day that people will take it the wrong way but they don't get it. They day "if he isn’t telling the truth then he is lying".

bootman, is it true that some AVR's will be shipping without Atmos. If so, that is worse than what Emo is doing since Atmos is supposed to be earth shattering good.

You could have got Onkyo in there. All the 2014 Onkyo units have Atmos with the exception of two really cheap ones.

I think one of the differences referenced in your comment is that Anthem, NAD and so on haven’t been telling us for 6 years that they will be launching Atmos units in February/April/June/July* (*delete as appropriate) and then actually failing to launch with the promised features AT ALL. See the difference?

You could have got Onkyo in there. All the 2014 Onkyo units have Atmos with the exception of two really cheap ones.

I think one of the differences referenced in your comment is that Anthem, NAD and so on haven’t been telling us for 6 years that they will be launching Atmos units in February/April/June/July* (*delete as appropriate) and then actually failing to launch with the promised features AT ALL. See the difference?

Is Onkyo the only unit shipping without Atmos? What about Yamaha?

Yes there is a difference in marketing. No difference that units will ship incomplete.

Onkyo has bigger problems than Atmos. I was trying to keep this thread clean. Did not want to pollute the whine and cheese that is being served here.

I am having to go to training in California on the Datasat (as a dealer representative since they do not sell directly to consumers) and that will be in about a month. I will then come home and set up my system and can then start the comparisons. Should be interesting.

Now don't go and tell us that you will also be capturing REW shots of your listening position for each unit...

All the 2014 Onkyo units have Atmos with the exception of two really cheap ones.

Yup, and at the time the mid-priced units shipped, there was no mention (let alone expectation) that they would be updated to Atmos. That was a happy surprise announced months later.

By comparison, at the time the XMC-1 was getting ready to ship, there was no mention (let alone expectation) that it would need to be updated to Dirac. That was an unhappy surprise revealed at the last minute.

I'll leave you to decide which of those two is truly "exceeding expectations".

Yes there is a difference in marketing. No difference that units will ship incomplete.

You have a unique use of the word 'incomplete'. A unit that is incomplete is one that is supposed to have a feature, has been promoted as having that feature and is then released without it. A unit that was never intended to have a feature, and is thus released without it, is not 'incomplete'. You can argue this for ever, Mud, but the fact remains that Emotiva have released the XMC-1 without the very feature that might have set it apart from its competitors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MUDCAT45

Onkyo has bigger problems than Atmos. I was trying to keep this thread clean. Did not want to pollute the whine and cheese that is being served here.

Phew. I thought you were going to manage two consecutive posts without taking a comical swipe at Onkyo

If they implement Atmos into the XMC-1 it can only be good news. But AIUI the XMC-1 only allows for 7 channels currently. While it's true that this would allow for a 5.1.2 Atmos setup, that is severely restricted when their competitors have already embraced 7.1.4. Without a substantial redesign the XMC-1 can never offer more than a very limited implementation of Atmos. So the question then would be, will you buy a $2,000 XMC-1 with 5.1.2 or would you rather spend exactly the same amount on the Denon AVR-X5200W and get 7.1.4?