Joanna Wiebe, founder of Copyhackers.com and dubbed as the world’s best conversion copywriter, was today’s guest on Warrior Ask Me Anything (WAMA) at the Warrior Forum. Aside from running Copyhackers, she co-founded Snap where she works with a remarkable copywriting and content marketing team to teach startups write better copy that converts.

Freelancer.com CEO Matt Barrie also sat in today’s WAMA event as a special co-host alongside Alaister Low, Warrior Forum Senior Director. Matt shared how Joanna’s ebook series changed his life and having her on the show to share her stories and advice just proved how phenomenal she is as a copywriting expert.

On Headlines and CTA Buttons

Joanna discussed a couple of significant topics on copywriting, and she started off with the importance of optimizing headlines and the role played by call to action (CTA) buttons. According to her, copywriters should always be working on optimizing headlines above anything else on the page in combination with the buttons. Always test your headline because that’s what will grab people’s attention to get them to read your copy. Joanna also shared that to begin writing copy, you start with the goal, use the placeholder headline, write the page, then replace the headline.

And how can the CTA help you write the page without messing up the goal? Start with writing the CTA then work backward. Interesting.

Segmenting and Split Testing

There’s a saying that goes "If you try to please everyone, you please no one." Joanna said this is true in copywriting. This is where segmenting takes place. It is significant to segment your market and focus on the people who are a good fit for your product. You have to know who you’re talking to so you would know the message to tell. You have to understand your market in order to write for them better.

“The way to write clearer and crisper messages is when they are specifically intended for one group you know well,” shared Joanna. So how do you know which message is good and which one is not? Here enters the value of split testing. Compare a variation of copies until you discover which one works best.

Conversion Copywriting vs. Content Creation

“Conversion copywriting is about trying to get your prospects to convert into customers or your customers to stick around and tell other people about you,” Joanna said.

Basically, the difference between conversion copywriting and writing for anything else (blog and press releases as examples) is that the former focuses on getting people to take an action by the end of the post. If you want to focus on conversion copywriting, you also have to play the role of a copy editor. Listen to what people are saying, use it then test it. Use the language your prospects use so you’ll be stickier. Joanna mentioned Amazon review mining as one of the best ways to know what people in your target market are saying.

When should you use long-form copy?

According to Joanna, long copy doesn’t work for everything. Long-form works well if your product could be described as trying to cure something or if it can be demonstrated more on a page.

Long-form copy can put readers to sleep, so you have to move their emotions with an interesting story. It should describe the what and how of your product. Word picture is effective to let them visualize what they read in your copy.

To conclude her interview, Joanna once more encouraged copywriters to go out and listen to people. She also emphasized that doing research upfront makes writing become easy. If you do these things right, you’ll be your best copywriter.

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Speaking of long-form copy, Joanna is giving all Warrior Forum members an exclusive deal. Own a copy of “The Dark Art of Long-Form Sales Pages” -- the fifth e-book in the Copy Hackers series -- for just $7 instead of $48.99!