I believe Liposomal Vitamin C, and other liposomal products, offer a lot of potential for many pwCFS, especially those considering anti-viral, anti-bacterial, anti-histamine, anti-inflammatory, and/or anti-fungal therapies. Because it's similar in effectiveness to IV Vitamin C therapy, I've come to believe Lipo C has the potential to be a viable alternative to, or adjunct with, many of the prescription drug protocols that are often discussed on this board.

I started taking Lipo C late last year and so far feel it's given me a bit of extra energy and stamina. But I feel I'm still just getting started in my experimentation, and that it holds a lot more potential for me. Since starting Lipo C, I’ve been thinking about starting a thread on it, but couldn't quite figure out how to succinctly introduce it. I finally realized this is such a vast topic, with so many potential benefits for pwCFS, that I needed to just get this thread started, which would then hopefully initiate some diverse compilation of data by myself and others on this board.

---
To get started, I thought I would introduce Dr. Thomas Levy, who is currently quite a proponent of Vitamin C therapy, and who is in a number of YouTube videos on the subject. He’s also written a number of articles that I think are quite good, often giving some fascinating historical data.

A major point he often makes is how powerful Vitamin C is as an anti-viral, mentioning how it was phenomenally successful in treating children with polio back in the 1940's (60 out of 60 cases cured within 3-5 days). He mentions it in this particular video at the 20:45 Minute Mark:

---
This link will take you to a website which describes liposomal technology, and how it's being used more and more, not only for supplements like Vit. C and other herbs, but by pharmaceutical companies to make their drugs much more absorbable.

The following quoted text is the first four paragraphs of the above linked article:

Imagine that a deadly virus is sweeping the world, killing and maiming hundreds of thousands of children. Nothing seems able to stop it - until a doctor stands up at the American Medical Association and reports on 60 cases involving severely infected children, all of whom have been cured. Yet his work, subsequently reported in a peer-review journal, is ignored, leaving the virus to wreak havoc for decades.

This isn't a docudrama about some futuristic plague - it's a true story about what happened in June 1949 when polio was at its peak. Dr Frederick Klenner, a clinical researcher from Reidsville, North Carolina, reported that a massive intravenous dose of Vitamin C - up to 20,000mg daily for three days (today's recommended daily allowance is 60mg) - had cured 60 of his patients. The findings were published in a medical journal, yet there was virtually no interest. Apart from a couple of minor trials, no attempt was made to find out if they had any scientific substance.

Relating this curious incident in a new book, Vitamin C, Infectious Diseases & Toxins: Curing the Incurable, Dr Thomas Levy, a US cardiologist, admits to being gripped by a range of emotions when he came across Klenner's work and other studies that replicated it. "To know that polio had been easily cured yet so many people continued to die, or survived to be permanently crippled by it, was difficult to accept."

Levy argues that the medical profession has routinely ignored research showing that high doses of Vitamin C can combat bacteria, toxins and severe viral infections including avian flu, SARS, hepatitis and herpes. And this is not a case of doctors sniffing at anecdotal evidence from a handful of enthusiasts. "Vitamin C is possibly the best-researched substance in the world. There are more than 24,000 papers and articles on the authoritative clinical website, Medline. Yet virtually the all the evidence has been dismissed." Levy even claims that Aids can be controlled if a high enough dosage of Vitamin C is maintained.

Very interesting. My Integrative MD has all his MTHFR and chronic patients taking Lipo C. But I've only been taking one capsul per day - which is a much lower dose than discussed. I've had no negative effects, I wonder what might happen if I try to ramp it up a bit. Like Jon said, what's the harm in trying? I don't know if I'll pump it up as high as the intravenous... but if I can work my way up a bit, it might result in something.

A major point he often makes is how powerful Vitamin C is as an anti-viral, mentioning how it was phenomenally successful in treating children with polio back in the 1940's (60 out of 60 cases cured within 3-5 days). He mentions it in this particular video at the 20:45 Minute Mark:

I started Lipo vitamin C yesterday using lecithin capsules and ascorbic acid which l know is too acid but l already had it in. Can l just add Mg to buffer it and can l encapsulate it as well or just stir it in before l take the C? Thanks to anyone who can answer.

What did you come up with? I just ordered some magnesium ascorbate, because I am currently making liposomal vitamin c (buffered with baking soda...I have no idea if this is a good idea) and liposomal magnesium (glycinate), and it would be nice to combine them to some degree.

Does anyone have experience with getting worse on liposomal vitamin c? Because I really seem to. When I took about two tablespoons of vitamin c (in liposomes, all told the liquid nears 2 cups) my usable hours go down from 5 to 1.5 per day, I spend way more time lying down, and my brain is much more foggy. I am hopeful that this means it is helping my body kill pathogens, but I would love to hear if anyone else has had similar experiences.

I bought some lipo C but before it arrived I read that it gets twice the amount of Vit C to your cells that ordinary Vit C tablets do, which didn't seem like much, considering it's phenomenally expensive - I wondered if I should just be doubling my dose of ordinary tablets.

Am I missing something?

I thought Linus Pauling's reviews of the Vit C literature had been shown to have involved a lot of 'cherry-picking' of results that suited his hypothesis while ignoring those that didn't. Have there been new systematic reviews?

I was on 45g (yes, grammes) of Vit C/day during my first illness with ME, which had me bedbound for many years. Didn't do anything at all. By what factor does IV Vit C increase the effective dose (i.e. how many grammes of Vit C in tablet form are the equivalent of 1g intravenously)?

As far as lipo C vs any kind of non-lipo c, I think that to some degree the issue is bowel tolerance. I have also been able to take very high doses of vitamin c without lyposomes at one time...(I was peeing blood at the time, probably a kidney infection but by the time I saw a doctor it had gone away and the test showed nothing). But now I seem to have a much lower bowel tolerance.

I wonder if the answer to your question might be found in researching vitamin c transport. It seems strange that your body would take in so much more than most of us can, yet be unable to use it. Yet that is what it sounds like! Maybe you need more magnesium: I read something about magnesium being necessary for the macrophages to use vitamin c. Or maybe there are different transport mechanisms involved in the gut vs in macrophages et? If that were the case, then liposomal vitamin c might be hugely effective.

What did you come up with? I just ordered some magnesium ascorbate, because I am currently making liposomal vitamin c (buffered with baking soda...I have no idea if this is a good idea) and liposomal magnesium (glycinate), and it would be nice to combine them to some degree.

Does anyone have experience with getting worse on liposomal vitamin c? Because I really seem to. When I took about two tablespoons of vitamin c (in liposomes, all told the liquid nears 2 cups) my usable hours go down from 5 to 1.5 per day, I spend way more time lying down, and my brain is much more foggy. I am hopeful that this means it is helping my body kill pathogens, but I would love to hear if anyone else has had similar experiences.

Click to expand...

Hi

I have not had much to report on lipo C, in fact I have been forgetting to take it. Must get back to it. I am having a really good result from Prescript Assist though.

I bought some lipo C but before it arrived I read that it gets twice the amount of Vit C to your cells that ordinary Vit C tablets do, which didn't seem like much, considering it's phenomenally expensive - I wondered if I should just be doubling my dose of ordinary tablets.

Click to expand...

Oral absorption is about 10-15%, liposomal about 85-90%. So taking 10 gram liposomal would be equal to about 90 grams oral.

I've just remembered that during my first illness (I was confined to bed with ME for several years when I first got it, then had a remission, then a relapse) I had a course of IV Vit C which also didn't do anything for me. Maybe Vit C is just not my thing or maybe the dosing regimen wasn't correct.

Is there a recommended dosing schedule/duration for liposomal Vit C? I've only got one packet and it's only got 30g Vit C in total.