why is it always in our nature to think about the negative.. does it really matter if he was leaning more towards victoria in those pictures? he's got eyes for mary only and everyone else is just puppets..

Well, in once sentence: Diana in the early nineties posing alone at the Taj Mahal. Remember that picture? Anyone seeing that picture, knew: her marriage ain't that great after all.

If I may take the liberty to speak for a bunch of us: we happen to take a shine to particular royal folks, and we like to think we are experts at disecting their body language. Because for one thing, that's all we have to go by, besides official propaganda. And because we follow these people quite closely, we tend to (think we) see things sometimes, pick up on things. Like the picture of Diana in India.
That same trip, also produced a picture of Charles reaching out to Diana to kiss her cheek, and she offered him the back of her ear/neck. We royal watchers drew our conclusions even back then, before the Morton book came out. Now I'm not at all saying this is the situation with Fred's marriage, oh no. Just that we royalty-nuts are sometimes that! And we tend to try to read from pictures, for better or worse!

This may be possible, but I think Victoria is just an out-going, flirty type of person. We all have somebody in our life like that- we just learn to deal with them. I also think Victoria just loves Frederik as a cousin or friend, someone to have fun with.

Hmm, that's all fine and good, but how <professional> is that though? You're representing an entire nation, and what do you do? You flirt with your cousin, just like in the old days.

I'll say one last thing about this and then I promise to shut up about it, promise: my conclusion here is that, yes, the not-to-the-manor born royal, aka Mary, is the more ever-professional-behaving royal here. Fred married the right person after all. And, Victoria, eat your heart out! So there.

lena that is your opinion you do not know them do you?
i get your point but give them a break too.
victoria can not be with frederik i wish people saying
this , she is the swedish crownprincess and she as a boyfriend as well
frederik and victoria friend's and cousin's as well, frederik love 's is
wife. because he doe's not hold her hand all the time doe's not say he
doe'snt love her,god sake's leave them a lone.know one know's what
their do behind close door's their mite hold hands and do what very married couple do, i will not here but think you can guess. and play with their children
as well. i feel that some people can get over the fact frederik is happy
and in love with a australian girl, know i will be shot down fro saying all
this but i had it with people all say's giving mary and frederik a hard time
about nothing, so what she was not had the swedish visit god she just had
baby.if i have up set anyone please tell me , i am i mite down these's day's
my father as cancer again for the third time., i am sorry to up set anyone here.
billie-jo

Why should you be "shoot down" for stating this?

It´s your opinion, and I have mine. And no matter, what you say, I will never feel bad for stating things like this. All Royals play a show, they have to. Some convince me more, some less. They cash a lot of money. Some hate the cameras, some not. That Mary (and Frederik) belong to the latter group, even the die-hard Marionistas can´t deny

They are young and healthy and have two healthy children. And they don´t seem to care too much for the ppl´s opinion. Otherwise Fred would get his butt up and would work more. I like discussing and so most others here do.

Some ppl praise them to the skies...and some do the opposite. It might be better, if there would be more steady balanced views on them (having neither really positive, nor negative feelings on them) but this doesn´t seem to work. At least not for Royal watchers. So one could actually also say, that there is some kind of balance through negative and positive opinions.

And don´t worry, I´ve neither my tent at Kancellihuset, nor I plan to get into every discussion here on Mary and Frederik. This only happens sporadically. Without any sight of sugarism, it can even happen, that I´m not going into the position of defending an somewhat unpopular opinion...but even know to praise them. For example I think, that Frederik did well during the state visit or I liked Mary´s new haircut. So I give them breaks actually.

What I´m wondering is, what do you mean by "i feel that some people can get over the fact frederik is happy
and in love with a australian girl"?

Is here "australian" just an adjective, describing the girl (as e.g. some mags start articles on her with "Australian born princess" or do you think, that this fact could annoy ppl?
If so, I´d say, her origin rather gave her more points. Most ppl have an very positive picture of Australians. Warm, kind, fun-loving ppl. And I remember, that even my parents, who are zero interested in Royalty and "had" to watch a docu with me, were delighted about the fact, that she is an Australian.
Back then I also didn´t know much about Frederik. Some historical and dynastical stuff on the Danish RF, that Frederik used to have beautiful girlfriends, that he seemed approachable, and somewhat sad about his childhood. So I had no reason to wish him anything bad for his marriage.

I´m really sorry to hear that about your father I hope you can still see light...and I´m wishing him the very best and the same to your family.

If you need someone to get steam off...I´d be the right one. If one is experiencing hard times, it´s often just the right thing.
But don´t expect me to change my views for strangers, who neither care for me and probably also not for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by princess olga

But for some reason the coquettishness of Victoria irritated me this time, maybe she's just a flirt. I remember reading on this forum on Fred and Mary's wedding thread, that Victoria, at Fred's wedding, when she spotted Felipe of Spain, was really touchy feely with him until she noticed the stare of Felipe's bride to be!

I think, it´s quite funny, that now Victoria is described as some kind of "Femme Fatale"
Usually she isn´t seen as some kind of "sexual creature"...more as some kind of funny teenage gal.
It´s as in RL...if there is some kind of moral wrongdoing*, then it´s always the woman, who is blamed.
*And no I don´t think there was really moral wrongdoing. It´s just the things, we imply.
And of course I´m also not thinking, that it would be nice, if Frederik would leave wife, children and country to marry his 2nd cousin It was for my brainless brain just nice to imagine, how things could be, if he would have found a woman like Victoria.
But it doesn´t go so far, that I want him to divorce...as I´ve said, I think there is some kind of love...and at least they have managed 3 years, that´s more than Princess Stephanie ever managed, right
So happy anniversary!

Mary and Frederik are for me "event ppl"...like these women and men, who always want to marry for the wedding itself. Yes, they looked happy at the little princess´presentation. And who wouldn´t...healthy sweet baby girl and all...what more can one hope for. But to me it seemed like two happy ppl...but not like two ppl happy with each other. The same at Christian´s first day at the Kiga.
In big moments they seem thrilled by the attention and play the show. No warmth, no closeness, no deep looks. At more ordinary things, there is even not the show. It´s simply not like Haakon and Mette Marit. With them there seems to be so much warmth, and deep respect for each other, they seem to have fun together.
But with Mary and Frederik, I simply can´t see that. And what should I do? I´ve no reason to like or dislike them. None of them has ever done anything bad or good to me. It´s simply a feeling. But if you have some "Mary&Frederik sugar brain washing powder", it´s most welcome.

Unfortunately I don't have a "Mary&Frederik sugar brain washing powder", so I guess I can't help you.
Let's just agree that we don't see things in the same way.

I completely disagree on the "show"-point for example.
I think it's actually Mette-Marit and Haakon who quite often put on a show for the public.
I am sure they love each other and they are actually one of my favourite couples
but I very often have the feeling they are too demonstrative in showing their love.
You know: holding hands during the entire Danish baptism, hugging and kissing in the snow on Harald's birthday
(I had the feeling they were quite aware that those moments would be captured by cameras),
the interview of Mette-Marit: "Haakon made me a better person".(Schluchz)

I often have the feeling there is a PR strategy behind it.
They are selling themselves as the "love conquers everything" couple, practically screaming out:
OK, Mette-Marit was quite an usual choice but look how very happy we are!

Frederik and Mary don't need such demonstrativeness to give me the impression of a happy couple.
And I must say that I find your comment about "two happy ppl...but not ... happy with each other" quite funny.
Would they look like two happy people if they weren't happy with each other?

Quote:

Some hate the cameras, some not. That Mary (and Frederik) belong to the latter group..

I don't think they hate the cameras but on the other hand
if I compare them with Alexandra, Joachim and now Marie
I also don't think they have a special fondness for them.

Quote:

It might be better, if there would be more steady balanced views on them (having neither really positive, nor negative feelings on them) but this doesn´t seem to work.

Sorry, but IMO your own remark about F&M's cold body language during the whole last year
does not show a steady balanced view and your remark about
"how things could be, if he would have found a woman like Victoria"
and a lot of other remarks who have done in the past
actually show that you do have negative feelings towards Mary (not against her new haircut though)
and Frederik as well (unless he is having a good time with your favourite Victoria).

This may be possible, but I think Victoria is just an out-going, flirty type of person. We all have somebody in our life like that- we just learn to deal with them. I also think Victoria just loves Frederik as a cousin or friend, someone to have fun with. And he and she would never do anything to hurt Mary or the two babies.

I personally decided to interpret the way Frederick and Victoria behaved during the State visit as having as reason the fact that Victoria, after having seem the ummphteenth time how marriage and fatherhood made Frederick happy, decided to confide in him her little secret: there's a wedding, marriage and mothership in her future, too - and fast! As long as it's kept a secret, she couldn't confide in anybody except her cousin from Denmark. Probably she invited him to the event but made clear that it's still a secret - so these two behaved like conspirators in one happy conspiracy... Just my speculation, of course...

So. What do you think?

__________________'To dare is to lose one step for but a moment, not to dare is to lose oneself forever' - Crown Prince Frederick of Denmark in a letter to Miss Mary Donaldson as stated by them on their official engagement interview.

So just because people to do hug, kiss or touch each other in public they are not happy? I guess that my Husband and I are in Very BIG trouble then! We never act this way in public. We are very happy in our lives and with our children. I think the reason Frederik was acting so happy this past week was because he was, with Mary and his Children. I wonder just how upset people would be if this was being said about another Royal couple!!!!!!

that's one very recent one from right before Sofia's birth. Many man y m ore like this one, you're welcome to check the particular threads!

And many many more unlike this one, with Letizia&Felipe not smiling, not looking at each other, looking quite seriously.In fact some German magazines used pictures from the very same event to proof that their marriage is in trouble.

I am not saying there is no love between L&F but you were generalizing, as if there are only pictures of them looking into each others eyes "as if they were discovering each other for the first time" or something along that line(moreover this is a picture from before "they just had another baby", but I don't want to appear too pedantic ).At the same time Lena said she looked at pictures of Frederik & Mary from the last year and their body language was "mostly cold".

It's that generalizing selectiveness used by message-boarders and mags that is actually fascinating me.Using the pictures which underline their point of view and ignoring those which contradict it.I guess people - including me - just see what they want to see.

Quote:

Originally Posted by princess olga

Who says I disagree that there <wouldn't> be any love between the two?

Who says I said you disagree that there wouldn't be any love between the two?
I was simply stressing out the fact that there was much love and happiness in the air at that time
although some here - and not particularly you - seem to have a different impression.
With the last pictures of this couple in my mind I actually think this whole discussion is quite absurd.

Quote:

Originally Posted by princess olga

No wonder Fred looks elevated - is he also a bit wee relieved to be gone even for a day from the duties of the kids and the eye of his great, but, dare I say it, seemingly-controlling, wife?

To be under the eye of his great, but, dare I say it, seemingly-controlling cousin?IMO Fred looked elevated long before the Swedish state visit started.Might have something to do with the birth of his daughter. Just a guess of course.

Maybe because in three years of marriage she has done a lot more than her husband??? Can that be so? Mary controlling, well IMO she seams to have a lot of strenght, naturalness, vigour, positive energy, she likes to be amoung people, she knows how to speak in public. We cannot say the same for Frederick.

__________________
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Perhaps princess_olga has that impression because Frederik had to give up his favourite hobby, sailing,
and has to be at his wife's side all the time.

Mary appears like a strong woman to me, but not necessarily as a controlling one.
Actually from what Margrethe has said about her son I don't think he would stand a controlling woman.
Strength, support and at the same time a lot of freedom, that's the impression I have.

If there would be opinions on Mary and Frederik´s marriage and partnership, we could discuss it here.

Maybe some mod would be so nice to move the distracting posts from the thread on the 3rd anniversary here (so that the flow of the 5400 official pics and news, we got to this great occasion wouldn´t be disturbed )

Well, I'll put my two cents in here since I did in the anniversary thread also. My sense, and it might very well be wrong, is that there is a bit of trouble. I'm not saying they're about to divorce, but something is odd about most of the photos of them together lately (and lack thereof), not to mention the recent rumours of Frederik's infidelity (can't give any specifics but I do remember rumblings about an American heiress last year). Those aren't things you hear, ever, about Haakon, Felipe, Willem-Alexander, or Philippe. And though they should of course be taken with a grain of salt, there is usually some truth in most rumours. Again, I'm not claiming to be sure of anything--but my gut tells me things aren't so good in the Danish marriage.

I think I read somewhere in one of the aussie magazine - New Idea or Woman's Day that Fred was getting too "close" to one of his ex's, i believe it's the pop singer? but again, what is the creditability of such a magazine?!?!?!

Well, I'll put my two cents in here since I did in the anniversary thread also. My sense, and it might very well be wrong, is that there is a bit of trouble. I'm not saying they're about to divorce, but something is odd about most of the photos of them together lately (and lack thereof), not to mention the recent rumours of Frederik's infidelity (can't give any specifics but I do remember rumblings about an American heiress last year). Those aren't things you hear, ever, about Haakon, Felipe, Willem-Alexander, or Philippe. And though they should of course be taken with a grain of salt, there is usually some truth in most rumours. Again, I'm not claiming to be sure of anything--but my gut tells me things aren't so good in the Danish marriage.

I don't know if I would go so far as to say that there is trouble, but it's funny how you notice things just from pictures. I remember having a bad feeling about Alexandra and Joachim well before their divorce announcement, which was a surprise to most people, even to me since I thought they would work things out. I remember in particular a picture of the two of them posing (standing next to each other but not touching) on the occasion of either Alexandra's birthday or Joachim's. It was a real uh-oh picture.

I personally don't think Mary is an controlling person, but I'd need to know someone personally to tell if they are.

I'm also not a fan of the Frederik/Mary Fepile/Letizia marriage comparison for one simple reason Frederik and Mary have been together longer than Fepile and Letizia have. If you're going to compare Frederik and Mary's marriage to someone elses, find someone who has been together for seven years and has two kids.

...seemed like two happy ppl...but not like two ppl happy with each other. The same at Christian´s first day at the Kiga.
In big moments they seem thrilled by the attention and play the show. No warmth, no closeness, no deep looks. At more ordinary things, there is even not the show. It´s simply not like Haakon and Mette Marit. With them there seems to be so much warmth, and deep respect for each other, they seem to have fun together.
But with Mary and Frederik, I simply can´t see that. ...

Two kids are for me in this position no proof for anything. It´s their main task to get a heir and a spare...and some couples like the distraction by a kid.
And of course one can also make love without love.

Couldn't have said it any better! My thoughts - written by you
I got to run off to work but will be back later today. Interesting thread, keep it on topic!

I think I read somewhere in one of the aussie magazine - New Idea or Woman's Day that Fred was getting too "close" to one of his ex's, i believe it's the pop singer? but again, what is the creditability of such a magazine?!?!?!

The credibility of NI & WD? They have none! They are the Aussie version of the British tabloids

And on the topic, I think there is nothing wrong in M&F's marriage, they seem and act very happy when they are out and about together, so I don't know where someone could get the idea that they aren't happy! The photos of Fred with Victoria during the state visit, IMO, aren't really much to go on, they have known each other their whole lives, so of course they would be comfortable enough to play around and laugh whenever they are together, like many other sets of cousins in this world!

All this speculation about Fred and Mary's marriage based on photographs and the equivalent of tabloids is really mean-spirited. Not all couples are extremely physically affectionate in public. That doesn't mean they are no longer in love with each other, have feelings for other people, or are on the verge of divorce.

I don't know either of these two people from a hole in the wall, but Mary knew what she was getting when she married Fred. Sometimes he'd have to be photographed with attractive women, such as Crown Princess Victoria, but it would merely be a job hazard and nothing more. Add to the fact the both of them have a lot in common and are related to each other, it's obvious why they are close and friendly with each other, but I certainly don't see sparks of passion flying off them when they're together. Mary isn't sitting home with her two children sobbing into a pillow while Fred plays playboy around town. I truly believe they are very much in love and they have two beautiful children as a symbol of that love.

__________________

__________________"The grass was greener / The light was brighter / The taste was sweeter / The nights of wonder / With friends surrounded / The dawn mist glowing / The water flowing / The endless river / Forever and ever........ "