rearing and lashing out at me, help needed

i should have made myself a little more clear (how unusual of me) LOL
what i meant was, this pecking order is natural instinct, right?
their other natural instinct is flight, (another instinct us humans are not to happy with LOL)
what i was trying to say (and quiet badly) is we try to train these instincts, by replacing them with trust (i supose there is a better word)?
by trying to imatate an intinct (for now we say pecking order) by putting yourself in the pecking order (hopefully near the top), you are inforcing this instict. so, as soon as they find the "weaker link" (and we will say me, for argument sake), i now have to prove i am not the weakest link.
now if i did not show how high i was in the pecking order straight away, i now have a BIG struggle to get myself back up as top dog, and this would NEVER HAVE HAPPENED if i was confident with my handling skills.
now by people telling me to give it a whack, show em whos boss, and all that, is quiet dangerous, as i would be using my FEAR to acheive this. and using FEAR in any situation is just not good.
i would have to use FEAR to stand my ground because if i was confident, this would never have been an issue in the first place.
so i would need to find a solution, where i could take the "fear" factor out of my response, and replace it with a "habit".
now i hope some can see, this is not about "natural" crap, and who is doing the right way or wrong way, it is about giving direction to someone who is not confident YET in dealing with this problem in a safe manner, with her saftey first and foremost.
joeleen, i hope you get things sorted out, and you feel safe and confident with what ever you decide to do.
good luck
cheers

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Smash, as you've dealt with similar, im curious how you dealt with the horse, you may have some great advice & info being shared always helps.

What did you do when your colt had a go at you in the stable (at the SEC), breaking bones in your hand/wrist?
Although you were injured, did adrenaline kick in & did you discipline the colt, or did you retreat?

Serious question as when my filly did the "back leg dancing" at her second show, i didnt touch her with the whip, i didnt do anything except wait (but growled) for her stupid nonsense to stop. I do wonder now whether i should of disciplined her firmly or let her get over it herself? I think if i cracked her with the whip, she probably would of had a "weanling princess meltdown". However, she's perfect at home.
I had people tell me i should of shanked her hard or cracked her once, good & firm.
I honestly dont know how i feel on that.

What did you do when your colt had a go at you in the stable (at the SEC), breaking bones in your hand/wrist?
Although you were injured, did adrenaline kick in & did you discipline the colt, or did you retreat?

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actually remaani, I DID NOTHING AT ALL, it was not his fault that someone had their in season mare tied to his box.
and i should not of walked into the box they way i did (did not let him know i was walking in) and i kind of was just there all of a sudden, and spooked him, and he kicked out, and he most certainly DID NOT HAVE A GO AT ME.

but you should have noticed that that colt was very well behaved in all his classes, and still went to other shows, where most people did not even know he was a colt.

the thing is remaani, is that it really does depend on the circumstances around each horse, and it is up to each indervidual on how they handle or asses each situation, if we use the example of your young filly rearing, there is a fine line between spunk and naughtiness. for a less experienced person, an agressive response for THAT rear could have gone either way, and a no response for THAT rear could go either way too. it is what or how we look at that situation.
if we over did the response (say yank with the chain) for THAT REAR we may of flattened her "spunk" as such. i like some horses with spunk as it adds character to some horses.
if we ignored the response for THAT REAR, and she "thought" it frightened you, well that can be the start of a lot "boo"s for the handler, and if the andler showed no fear, and assesses THAT rear as a "whoopsie" and showed no real response, how much problems has it caused you (most likely none at all)
now what would YOU have said, if it was say your son handling the filly, give it a yank ? when he would be uncapable of following it through or there was a strong chance of him getting hurt. i think you would say, "let her go" and then re asses the situation and find a different way to deal with that situation.
you see, if you were training that filly for your son to handle if the future, you would of most like handled that rear completely different again.
i hope you understand what i mean? just because you handle a situation the way you do, does not mean some one else could or would be able to handle the same situation the same way because fear can cause a different outcome.
SOMETIMES in SOME situations for SOME people, you can give them another way of dealing with the situation.
cheers

I have watched this for awhile now and am actually unsure as to how humans teach horses these unsavoury bad habits. I can assure you humans do teach horses, as humans get in a horses life the horse does not choose to be part of a humans life. A baby foal is a blank book and the human teachs him good or bad.
'what happened before what you wanted to have happen, happened'

I have watched this for awhile now and am actually unsure as to how humans teach horses these unsavoury bad habits. I can assure you humans do teach horses, as humans get in a horses life the horse does not choose to be part of a humans life. A baby foal is a blank book and the human teachs him good or bad.
'what happened before what you wanted to have happen, happened'

Sometimes you buy a horse that simply has been spoilt by the prior owner (or owners) who have elected to tip-toe around issues rather than correct the horse at the right time.

These horses can really explode when you correct them (sometimes for the first time in their life) because they have never not had their own way before. Usually it's small issues like pushing you around or shoving their face into the feed bucket - while you're still carrying it!

Personally I'd rather be a mean mum and smack a horse ONCE at the right time, and no longer have that issue any more, than to be softly softly for three months and still have that issue.

That is NATURAL HORSEMANSHIP not waving a 50ft pole with a dangly bit on the end to do whatever you do with them.

Try having an 18hh 3y/o wb rear up on you, happened to me at an agistment centre I was supervising, you dont have much time to go and grab a "carrot stick".

QUOTE]

Simbin,
A horsemanship flag is not a 50ft pole with a dangly bit on the end of it,

you can actually purchase them as horsemanship tool.
the flag is a useful piece of equipment when working with horses it is approx the same length as a dressage whip, and the dangly bit is a soft peice of cloth .

andif you know you have a problem horse to work with , you take the flag with you.
this is called preperation......

Well thanks to some tips I picked up on this thread my rather cheeky youngster has quickly learnt that I meant business

She has decided to test her boundaries lately, and has been crowding me at the gate and also at the feed bin. After two days of doing the excersise this afternoon she waited politely away from the gate for me to enter, put in her feed, praise her and walk away It was such a pleasure not to be crowded by a pushy madam.