Nalle Hukkataival has been added after 70 votes as three guys had written his name in the "Other" category. @ Samuele: This poll is very interesting. A poll for the Climber of the year would NOT have been interesting as Adam would have got a big majority. In fact, if you do NOT vote for Adam as the Climber of the year, I think you do NOT know what you are talking about. By making it for the #2 person, the poll is much more interesting. I am in fact chowing these guys respect, as they will in this poll get votes. I am sure, all of them would have voted for Adam if they had the possibility.

Please, give some valid arguments why any of the mentioned climbers should be Climber of the year ahead of Adam. I think many find this poll interesting...but I guess, with Adam included, very few would have found it interesting.

Jens, it seems that you have a rare brain illness that is called "Pleckner" syndrom, or something like this i don't remember exactly. For people who are not confronted with a lot of other people, it is almost impossible to detect, but in the opposite case, it shows a simple enough symptom : the progressive deviation of the opinions on more and more extremist points of vue, because of the reject of advises (to make simple). For lower QI men, it goes very quickly to a kind of schyzophrény, but if you are constructive and creative enough (i think it's your case), you spnd energy to defend (i mean for you, in your mind) your point of view, first, and then, you "want to" think like other don't think. A kind of "contradiction spirit", but who birth first in the mind, not only in discussions for example. There are some tests to diagnostic this syndrom, you should see some psychologue. Or... maybe, the articles of "the Jens of 8a.nu" are a just provocation and your are laughing in front of your computer when you read remarks against "you", knowing that you write something you didn't think ;-)

" Please, give some valid arguments why any of the mentioned climbers should be Climber of the year ahead of Adam." Well Johanna is World Cup Champion & World Champion. That Adam bloke could only finish second in China, he must be rubbish ;-)

Dear Mr. Larssen not sure about the point you are trying to make lets focus on achievements, no disrespect to Ondra's climbing capacity, but he has not yet done anything harder that has already been done... on rock or have I missed any of his ascents???

Hello to all, I think there should be no hating aroung here. For me there is no "Best" Climber in the world, Its just a matter of perspective, since our sport is so much diversivicated. So just have fun during what you do...... Thanks Thomas

Just to spite you all I'm going to have to side with Jens on this one, and this is why. Adam is: 1. World Cup Champion - Having won 4 of 6 World Cup difficulty events I would say that puts him at the top of the game for competition climbers. Not to mention 3rd in his first and only Bouldering WC, behind Kilian and Gabriele who are bouldering specialists. 2. Number 1 combined boulder and route ranking, #1 route ranking, #5 boulder ranking. There is no other climber even close to him in the combined. 3. Numerous FAs up to 9a+, and 2nd ascents of long standing routes that have defied many hard climbers over the years. Not to mention pushing the envelope for onsighting hard grades, or climbing them second try or with very little work. The fact of the matter is that Adam has excelled this year in more climbing disciplines than any other climber and is very deserving of climber of the year. Not to discredit any other climbers achievements, but it is true that no-one has excelled as widely as Adam has. Chris climbed some phenomenal routes, but no bouldering, competition or trad. Huber, Favresse and the boys climbed some great trad, but lots of people climbed .14b trad this year. And most of the women excelled in specific areas, but again, none of them matched Adams achievements (frankly I would vote for Akiyo or Jain Kim over Ernst or Duriff as they were stronger in multiple disciplines). So, does this justify holding a vote for 2nd best climber of the year? Maybe, maybe not, depends on your perspective. In my opinion, and I guess what Jens feels, is that Adam is clearly deserving of number 1, and he would like to know who the community thinks is deserving of number 2. And if any of you critics really feel Adam isn't deserving of the number 1 spot, then provide some reasonable arguments as to why not and who should be number 1 and why. If you just proceed to rip on Jens because he has an opinion and clearly states it, then you're a bigger douche than he will ever be.

I do not want to have the arrogance to talk for all the others, so here is my point of view.

What I find annoying is not the fact that Jens proposes Adam as 1st of the class, I find annoying the way he proposes it. He is deeply in love with the kid, and this is reflected in almost all the news and comments and replies he has been writing since long time. I find such behaviour at the opposite of professional journalism this website tries to approach: it is childish and counter effective (a part from the usual increase of statistics).

If this behaviour is merely aimed to raise arguments (not debates), than fair enough, but then do not call this website the best website in the World; it is not the quantity, but the quality that makes it as such.

To me, perhaps, most of the people would agree with having Adam as best climber, but it is the form this poll was presented which piss them off.

In conclusion: Jens, make a bloody poll about the best climber, and then about the second climber, or take the second result of the first poll.

past year, when chris sharma was the climber of the year you did not make a poll of second best climber of the year. you just made this poll so you can laugh on all the other climbers and claim ondra is the best. let us decide who is the climber of the year not you.

there is not one thing i think ondra has done more sufficiently than sharma. Granted, he competes, but competitions are honestly trivial. When it comes to actual rock climbing, Ondra has only succeeded in following the footsteps of others, chiefly sharma. Now, this will change, but thats how it looks right now. So I do not understand why Ondra is the best to start off with.

there is not one thing i think ondra has done more sufficiently than sharma. Granted, he competes, but competitions are honestly trivial. When it comes to actual rock climbing, Ondra has only succeeded in following the footsteps of others, chiefly sharma. Now, this will change, but thats how it looks right now. So I do not understand why Ondra is the best to start off with.

A proper poll would have asked for nominations and then given the voters the opportunity to vote for their top 3 climbers. I am pretty certain Adam would win this poll but Jens needs to give us the opportunity to say that in order to give legitimacy to the poll.

" A proper poll would have asked for nominations and then given the voters the opportunity to vote for their top 3 climbers. I
am pretty certain Adam would win this poll but Jens needs to give us
the opportunity to say that in order to give legitimacy to the poll." But the point is that 8a has already chosen its climber of the year. Adam Ondra. The poll, as clearly stated, is for 2nd best.

I hate this votes every year, it`s just the complete opposite of what climbing means to this people on "your poll". It`s not about beeing the best or achieving the greatest thing in the world. Climbing is about pushing yourself and having fun with friends on rock, plastic or in comps, not about this stupid rankings. Maybe this is a reason that so many guys stopped writing stuff on 8a.nu or never started (for example Chris). I just feel sorry for Adam, because Iam sure he is reading this and feels really stupid about this whole thing here, started by Jens. So please, delete it.

I guess most of us think such a poll is rather funny. The poll or the result is NOT the absolute truth. It isjust interaction in the climbing community. Theoretically, anybody could be the climber of the year as there is 45 left days left. The poll gives an idea of what the 8a community thinks as of November 15th and I think the result is interesting but it isjust for fun :-) But even more fun is the comments here in the forum, especially the critical ones.

3 points:
1) Adam Ondra is an ower of 8a. I wouldnt' say that Jens is a lapdog, but really, i'm not in bob's office kissing his arse all day.
2) 6 months off working on his house and Sharma still climbed how many 5.14d-5.15b's this year? constantly uping his (the) game, pushing the standard that continaully is pushed by none other than himself.
2a) yes, Chris is THE poster boy. correct me if i'm wrong, thou high and mighty, omnicissant Jens, i don't think any single climber of the past 40 years has done more (PR) for this sport than Chris Sharma. 3) climber of the year should be Jens due the fact that no other "climber" has had more of an impact of climbing than Jens himself. Jens created climbing, he created the internet, the scorecard, the wire gate biner, sticky rubber, and sweeden. in addition, he taught Petzl how to use a grigri, he redid the ISCF rules, he trains harder than Paxti, and went 12 rounds with Joe Frazier and won, and he feeds homeless children before work, rushes to the local hospital to change bedpans of the elderly after work, then puts in 4 hours on the woody.

John - " But
the point is that 8a has already chosen its climber of the year. Adam
Ondra. The poll, as clearly stated, is for 2nd best. " Yes I know that but my point is that Jens will retrospectively claim or infer that this as an 8a community poll when the reality is that Jens (and possibly the others behind 8a which apparently includes Adam Ondra) decided the no 1 without any input from the community (whatever the community is).

Graeme, if Jens does that, I will back you 100%. I predict he won't, though. And in the meantime, the poll is exactly as advertised. Last year, 8a picked its climber of the year without a poll. Just like now.

started more controversial debates than chris/adam/dani...ever will and thereby enriched the world of climbing

proven himself as a infallible and wise instance of judgement when it comes to what´s news and what´s not!

pissed mick ryan off! but nobody likes the british anyway;), so that should be counted a heroic achievement!

found out that everybody who thinks different from him just has no clue! that´s called self esteem, bitches!

knows that climber of the year is actually a term that should be coined sportclimber of the year instead but again, why should he care?

is showcasing no respect for the community of climbers whatsoever since he thinks the forum comments on his poll are funny!

could crush inga in gorges du loup onsight if he wanted but that´s a low quality link up and therefore no achievement, at least not one that´s mentionable

thinks that woods and co are all pussies, since future generation kids won´t care about how small and painful the holds on 9a boulders are whereas woods and co are obviously stagnating and not going anywhere in the bouldering game

i have asked for days off both at university and work. i need to make a pilgrimage to jens´s house and look at the man, the myth, the legend. maybe enlightenment will strike me. maybe i will begin to understand the wonder behind climbing. maybe i´ll also get a picture signed, which i will keep under my pillow ever after.

" there is not one thing i think ondra has done more sufficiently than sharma." I don't think that's true. Ondra sent Open Air. Sharma failed, and found it so hard, he speculated that some holds must have broken off. Ondra also sent Las Ramblas in five tries. Sharma needed more than twice as many. He also used the rest hold, which Ondra did not. After watching Ondra on this route, Sharma supposedly said he felt like an amateur. Did Sharma send Action Directe? Seems to me Ondra is climbing more tough routes than Chris now, faster, with fewer tries. I have to wonder what Adam will do when he takes on some long-term projects. Jens or anyone, can you list what the climbers in the poll achieved this year? Seems like Chris, e.g, has been MIA for many months, as he was building his house. I don't recall what he climbed this year.

First of all Jens you're a dick, and as you always want reasons. Well here is some: 1. You're always talking about climbing community this and climbing community that, firstly there are 1350 votes so far, you cant say thats the opinion of the worlds climbing community. 2. If you're so into the whole climbing community thing, how the hell do you claim Ondra as the number one climber of the year, without asking your "community". 3. A lot of people come the 8a for information: Which is a pity, as long as you make these FUN polls, and want some FUNNY critic from them. So as long as you want some funny comments, I met a swede this summer who knows you, and said that you're a fucking idiot, but as you might want to know the truth about that claim, well why don't you make a poll out of it. It might be really FUNNY... Sorry of the agressive post, but I'm starting to get sick of you're bullshit, and btw for you're topic that Ondra is the best 16 year old athlete on the planet, why dont you look some of the young snowboarders and skiers, I think Shaun White had done a bit more then Ondra when he was 16. So just get you're head out of you're ass and try to keep you're own ideas to yourself if you actually want to be a "reporter"

Arthur Kubista should be on first place because of "the best climbing achievement in the history of climbing!" Second Place: Jens. L (reasons shown above) Third place: Adam O. Fourth place: Adam O. Fifth place: Adam O. Sixth place: Adam O. Seventh place: Adam O. and so on...

first of all, jens, in the debate about the stagnation in bouldering you stated something you perceived as a fact. you didn´t debate against it. you mentioned that there is a dramatic decrease in boulders 8b+ and above registered. when people told you that is actually not the case, you still held on to your point. if woods and co are stagnating, why...because they are weak? maybe 9a boulder is still miles away, even though it would be great news indeed!

@ Christan: I do NOt understand how come you mention many ascents which Sharma did in 2007 and 2008, when we clearly are talking about 2009. I have NOT said that the holds were to small on 8C bouldering etc. I have debated for the contrary. @ Hendrik: The statement was of course based on Arthur beeing 45-years-old. He will have a good chance of beeing #1, for the guys 35+ but obviously, to do one 9a+ will NOT put him on a piedestal at the Climber of the year list. @ Konsepti: Your account will be closed if you continue to use bad words. In this forum, and in many others, bad words etc are NOT allowed.

First of all I'm sorry that I used the word D####, not that I really count that as a bad word, and went it comes to the other bad word, well it was a quote! But as you said yourself you're after a FUNNY topic and FUNNY comments, I reckon bad language can be FUNNY. My point is that as long as you're not taking anything seriously why would we... ps: I reckon bad words aint that bad comparing what you're doing on this site.

Thanks... www.8a.nu has been growing for ten straight years. I guess this means that the climbing community in the world find it rather good. There are several who has made more then 100 critical forum posts. In some cases, these posts have made an impact on how we work but overall, nothing has changed since I started it in December 1999. Why should we change a winning concept. Why do you think several celebrities like Sharma, Andrada, Cufar, Ondra and Belhaj are share holders of the 8a Climbing Inc? It would be interesting to do some analyses of all you critical guys with more than 100 critical post, who visit the site daily, even if you think 8a is very poor :-) Please consider that, if we changed it in the way you like it, there might be even more critical opinions towards such a change. It is impossible to satisfy all 80 000 individuals who visit us every month...

i think that with such "interesting" polls the visitors to forum will increase and maybe new records for the site will be achieved....is this the reason for such a poll ?....
I agree with the fact that Adam deserve the #1 in 2009...he was great this year ! and i would vote him in a poll for who is the best climber this year....but i find very intresting to vote the first 3 position maybe.... and based on this to have the first 3 position in TOP....of course the first is the first :)

point for point: visitor-amount are no indication of quality. you could change to be better. it's not hard. I can't remember if there's an equivalent in english, but in dutch we have a saying which translates roughly to: standing still equals regressing. exposure. and it works. schadenfreude. look it up. and don't smile at me, you ignoring twit. afraid to try?

How dare I bring up routes Sharma did in 2007 and 2008? John was making a point about routes Chris failed on (in 1999-Action) and didn´t do quite as fast as Adam (La Rambla 2007) Better read thoughly first Jens, then comment! Where in the strange trends 2009 debate have you made any point except for getting into a sidekick fight with Alex Förschler? Don´t tell me in the initial post, all you stated was there is stagnation. I didn´t write that you said the holds where too small on 8c...again: practice reading! You said there is stagnation! I said that means implying that the current generation of boulderers in your opinion obviously isn´t getting anywhere right now! Something I don´t agree with, by the way...had a lof of problems been reported with the proposed grade, then there would have been plenty 8cs...don´t count their braveness and humbleness against them.
Just read thoroughly! But, considering the ammount of rubbish in your comments, I (and I think I´m not the only one) doubt whether you ever read and think before posting...you just plow on in your direction!
For instance you have never ever seriously reacted to a community demanding to be asked before somebody gets laureled as climber of the year. You just tell us that Chris, Dani and Co are shareholders...now that´s addressing the question at hand!

I can totally see the logic of a second best climber poll this year but to make absolutely sure perhaps Adam O should have been included. End of the day it's just a quick internet poll - just a bit of fun. No big deal. Don't know why people get so serious and worked up about such things. It would be healthy if some climbers learned to chill out a bit.

There is something that confuses me a lot. Some of you said things like "Jens, you are a total asshole, your website is the worst on the internet and you suffer from brain illness." my question is: Why do you guys keep coming back??? If this website is so disturbing and terrible, why are you here? Oh, because you like it? Ok, then shut your mouth and show some respect.

@ Dan: I have put the chipping poll on the main page? Normally when media appoint athletes or persons of the year, there is no such thing as a poll. See the Arco award, Oscars, national Geographic etc. The 8a poll regarding climbers of the year, will contribute to the list. This make our list unique...but still some of you complain!

"Normally
when media appoint athletes or persons of the year, there is no such
thing as a poll. See the Arco award, Oscars, national Geographic etc." The Oscars are voted on by the American Academy (of Film or whatever) hence the name Academy award. Arco. Hmmmm, hold on don't various magazines around the world shortlist candidates and then there is a discussion & vote at Arco

The difference is of course that you have to be an appointed member to vote for these prices. It is NOT like they have an internet poll, to decide who is the Oscar winner or the Arco winner. Clearly, this is NOT a professional way to set up such a list. However, the difference, is that 8a have started to do them and that the polls will have an impact on our Climber of the year list...this is unique!

@Jens: "Normally
when media appoint athletes or persons of the year, there is no such
thing as a poll. See the Arco award, Oscars, national Geographic etc. The
8a poll regarding climbers of the year, will contribute to the list.
This make our list unique...but still some of you complain! " I think 5 minutes on Google would be sufficient to make this statement completely false. But I really think the thread here of people complaining is interesting. Perhaps Jen's way of creating friction and controversy is really what attracts people to the site? Can you chart how your traffic goes up when there's more friction and complaining? I would hazard a guess that it does. This may be one of the reasons for 8a being so popular. People are always complaining about how unprofessional this site is, and I would have to agree that from a journalistic standpoint it is. But perhaps the color, strife, and controversy are what make it interesting, and keep us coming back for more?

Before you start complaining, why do you not start with the "5 minutes on Google"? During my two weeks vacation where I hardly participated in the forum, we made another two weekly records. However, I personally learn a lot from these discussions and I guess that is what most find interesting, to learn from the debates? Compared to any other climbing websites, we have 400 % more news. I do think this is the main reason for our popularity and increasing figures. PS It is a new record today :-)

I think the records when you were away were from all those who were checking when you would get back ;) I agree, I enjoy the back an forth, and I do think that the forum can be constructive (and entertaining). I did take a look on Google. Here are 2 examples: Associated Press Athlete of the Year is voted on by a panel of AP Sports Editors (Wiki). That seems like a poll to me. Also: The Best Female Athlete ESPY Award , known alternatively as the Outstanding Female Athlete ESPY Award , has been presented annually since 1993 to the female , irrespective of nationality or sport contested, adjudged to be the best athlete in a given calendar year .
Between 1993 and 2004 , the award voting panel comprised variously fans ; sportswriters and broadcasters , sports executives , and retired sportspersons , termed collectively experts ; and ESPN personalities , but balloting thereafter has been exclusively by fans over the Internet from amongst choices selected by the ESPN Select Nominating Committee. Taking polls to determine the athlete of the year is definitely not unique to 8a, I have to get back to work or I could find tonnes more. I wonder why you've already announced your choice? Do you not think that unveiling this when your yearbook is ready makes more sense, even if it seems obvious to you who you will chose? Perhaps there would be a little more interest in the yearbook? How many people will say: "I don't need a yearbook, I already know who's Climber of the year!" note that statement is a little tongue-in cheek...I know there is more to your yearbook than climber of the year, but perhaps you get my idea?

2009-11-17 23:26:32

Your website Jens is way down the popularity rating as regards the other climbing websites.

You maybe setting records for yourself, but have to catch up with the big boys.

In fact, as any web traffic professional like myself knows, 8a.nu is losing popularity.

You are way down the rankings.

This is your ranking on industry standard Alexa.com.

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/8a.nu

Your rank is 121,026th in the World and your traffic is declining.

I dare you to look up some of the other climbing websites that are gaining popularity and are well ahead of you as regards..

" This is your ranking on industry standard Alexa.com. http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/8a.nu Your rank is 121,026th in the World and your traffic is declining." 2 problems with this. 1) No one knows if Alexa is accurate. It does not measure actual traffic. It takes a sample, and extrapolates. The sample is not random, as it depends mostly on self-selecting actions. For example, the Times reported Alexa made a 200% error in tracking, as the following article discusses: http://www.malcolmcoles.co.uk/blog/the-inaccuracy-of-alexa-more-evidence-not-to-rely-on-it/ 2) 8a does measure its own traffic, and those figures show traffic going up. So real figures contradict Alexa.

3)
climber of the year should be Jens due the fact that no other "climber"
has had more of an impact of climbing than Jens himself. Jens created
climbing, he created the internet, the scorecard, the wire gate biner,
sticky rubber, and sweeden. in addition, he taught Petzl how to use a
grigri, he redid the ISCF rules, he trains harder than Paxti, and went
12 rounds with Joe Frazier and won, and he feeds homeless children
before work, rushes to the local hospital to change bedpans of the
elderly after work, then puts in 4 hours on the woody. ^^^This was worth quoting.....looks like our ugly and brainless dwarf is replacing Chuck Norris!

Lens, I have been a member on your site for about four
years, coming on maybe once a month. Purely to see what going on in the world. Never posting or moaning about anything anyone rights.

Then i stumbled across this, I have never come across stranger more pointless poll, Which only purpose intended or not ,can be to insult and offend people listed as number 2, unless they were all told and gave the permission before hand.

The last time i checked climbing was a very liberal community were everyone was able to express an opinion, However for some reason and i dont no what you think gives you the right, you have decided to try and take this away from people by offering a pole that makes it impossible to express what people really think by taking away a there choice. Granted adam could and probably should have come out as the best sport climber/boulderer.

Well Lens im glad your influence only reaches as far as this little online kingdom. And i do have a choice which i intend to fully exercise, Leaving the site.

Jens is not very intelligent, he is arrogant and has clearly some psychological problems. It is a waste of time to discuss with him. The idea of the scorecard was a good one and this site could be very good, but who wants to read all this bullshit all the time. It is better for my mental health just to ignore it. Au revoir!

Wow, this site must be full of idiots. The language used by some is stupid, arrogant and also very insulting. Why are you writing to this site, why are you reading this, if everything here is so wrong?? It seems most are such searching faults in Jens threads and commenting those, but not the thread itself. Adam Ondra clearly deserves the climber of the year title, no question about that. He has brought the sport to a new level and will do that in coming years. Also when older he will start to find projects himself, no question about that. Chris Sharma is a fantastic climber and has been the best overall sportsclimber many years. This year however Adam has been superior.

I rather like Thebon's idea of two awards, one male climber of the year and one female climber of the year . For the first category I would not contest Adam Ondra. For the hypothetical second category I propose Charlotte Durif, as the outstanding on-sight climber of the year and indeed all-time, and for her new website that is the most readable of all with beautiful language that belies her age. Unfortunately Charlotte stopped filling in her 8a.nu scorecard last May. Since then she has updated her own website, so I have added the two sets of records. This year Charlotte was seriously injured for half a year, so the period from May last year up to now represents about 12 months of part-time climbing when not occupied with her university studies. All-time the 19-year old Charlotte has on-sighted 155 routes classified 8a or harder. Only five men have on-sighted more routes of that difficulty. Interestingly Patxi Usobiaga has on-sighted 156 routes and Ramón Julian Puigblanque 157 routes 8a and harder, so they are more or less on par with Charlotte. Compairing Charlotte with other female climbers her achievements are even more amazing. Charlotte has onsighted more routes 8a+ and harder than all other female climbers combined. In just her latest 12-months of climbing Charlotte has onsighted 3 8b+ routes and 5 8b routes. Among 8a-registered female climbers only Charlotte Durif and Josune Bereziartu have ever on-sighted an 8b+ route. Apart from Charlotte four female climbers have onsigted 8b routes all-time; Josune Bereziartu a total of three; Maja Vidmar, Evgeniya Malamid and Johanna Ernst one each. All-time Charlotte has on-sighted 4 8b+ routes and 12 8b routes. For the record, the all-time 8a.nu and above on-sight lists are as far as I can make out (with no info on e.g.Chris Sharma and Lynn Hill) as follows. Male Adam Ondra 333 routes Said Belhaj 177 routes Klemen Becan 167 routes Ramón Julian Puigblanque 157 routes Patxi Usobiaga 156 routes Female Charlotte Durif 155 routes Martina Cufar 42 routes Maja Vidamr 38 routes Josune Bereziartu 28 routes Evgeniya Malamid and Alizée Dufraisse 9 routes each