This one reduced me to sputtering incoherence

I’ve had about 5 minutes at my computer all day long, time that included checking out my friends’ Facebook pages. While waiting for a sales person, I caught this one which, as I noted in the post caption, reduced me to sputtering incoherence. Yes, this is the new meme: If you don’t think our borders should be overrun by illegal aliens, you’re un-Christian:

I still don’t have time to write, and I can’t think of a short, intelligent, non-defensive, expose-the-stupidity comeback. Help?

Thinking about it, maybe there is no comeback. Maybe when you’re dealing with a world view that enthusiastically applauds having the border overrun with a hundreds of thousands of unattended children, criminals, and possible terrorists, many of whom are carrying diseases ranging from the unpleasant to the terribly dangerous, there is nothing anyone can say to counter a poster that says it’s un-Christian to want to return these people to their own lands.

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You last paragraph is a perfect summation. There is no logical coherent answer for the criminally insane; Willing to bet the author very unlikely to spend any of their PERSONAL money, attend a church, or support any church and missionary efforts on their own to help such people.. Just criticize and find fault with those who actually do, for not doing enough. Our troops and efforts would best be spent by taking over these banana republics and installing capitalistic governments and economics so the poor can escape from poverty by their own efforts. But they would rather turn America into a banana republic one party country, run only for the benefit of the self appointed elites in this country., which is their true plan and aim.

Robert Arvanitis

Who is responsible for the plight of the children on our southern border?
Clearly it is those who issued the false promises, as deadly as the sirens’ call in the Odyssey, Luring the innocent to their doom.
The sin is only made worse that such treachery was for political gain.

Christians would voluntarily help, but not by taking a gun and robbing somebody else’s house to pay for the needy. Socialism is all about force, raping, and killing people who disobey Authority.

That’s why Obeying Authority is for chumps these days. What’s it going to get you, a Union card, a welfare check? If the Supreme Authority just left you alone, you could get all those benefits and more, on your own back.

The Left’s propaganda catch 22 is working, I see. Either Christians take in or are forced to care for thousands of rapists and human traffickers, like the Democrat gun runner in California, or they are fake Christians… Catch 22, either you are for the Left or you are going to suffer. Win Win.

I already told people what counter attack works best against the Left. They just don’t want to use it. So they’ll keep on losing the propaganda war, as usual.

Mike Devx

I’m not sure which specific solution you’re referring to, Ymar.

Jose

I don’t really have time this evening to go into this, but to start with, this is a straw man argument.

The children are simply pawns used by a corrupt government to undermine our system of laws. Most non kool-aid drinkers, including Christians recognize this.

Secondly, and more to the point, Jesus did not look to the government to provide charity. That is the responsibility of his followers. Where I worship we have contributed to various disaster relief efforts, and we support an orphanage on a recurring basis. We look after those who need help, including financial help. We could do more if the government wasn’t dipping so deeply into our pockets. And we don’t like to see the government spending billions on ICE and the Border Patrol, and at the same time undermining those agencies. Just because we are Christians we don’t turn a blind eye to those who squander our taxes to promote their own agendas.

I think I’m getting off topic.

This argument is similar to one I’ve seen used by liberals who, when conservatives complain about tax increases for entitlement spending, toss out the story about the rich young ruler. The text is Matt Chapter 19. After the young man states that he has followed the law to the letter, Jesus tells him ” “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” The liberals will use this story to justify unlimited government charity spending, while calling conservatives hypocrites for opposing them. But there are a couple of incorrect assumptions on the part of the liberal.

1. Jesus did not advise the young man to turn over his assets to the government. Charity was a personal responsibility.

2. Jesus first told the young man to keep religious law, and quotes some of the ten commandments.

3. When the young man pushed, he obviously wanted to go “above and beyond”. Only then did Jesus say “if you wish to be complete (or perfect)” to sell his possessions and give to the poor.

4. Jesus also told the young man to follow him, and he would have treasure in heaven.

The argument against the poster is not an easy one to make in a few bumper sticker bullet points. Besides, the Left won’t listen anyway.

Are the American laws concerning immigration just? Perhaps, perhaps not. That’s not the issue. The issue is violating the laws of the land which the illegal immigrants have clearly done. It is equally illegal for citizens to violate the laws by aiding the illegal immigrants.

The Bible and Jesus present no scripture for or against borders, or whether the borders should be open or closed. We are told to follow the laws of the land and that disobedience to the law is punishable by the state. The state is not restricted in the kind of punishment the state may inflict. Because the stricture to obey the laws of the land is one that comes from God, then disobeying those laws is also disobedience to God. If a country’s borders are closed or controlled, violating the borders is a sin.

Now, there’s another side to the teachings of the Bible and Jesus. The individual, not the state, is required to show mercy, kindness, and generosity to the immigrant. We are told to treat the stranger with all the respect and consideration we would give to a fellow citizen. But, aiding illegal immigrants is violating the law of the land which is equally a rebellion against God.

So, how does a nation confront the illegal immigrant problem? The easy answer is “don’t do it,” but that’s unreasonable. The illegal immigrant, whether adult or child, is subject to the law and, if a believer, to obey the laws of God no matter what the situation at home as that is where God put them for whatever divine purpose. If they wish a better life, it is their responsibility to make changes where they are, or to legally immigrate to a better country. Breaking the law is not an option.

The receiving nation has the responsibility to treat the stranger with kindness and respect throughout the process of of arrest, detention, hearing, and deportation if that is the judgement of the lawful court.

The majority of illegal immigrants coming to the US come for a better life, providing for their families, and escaping from poverty and violence. All worthy goals and motivations. However, it is not biblically acceptable to violate a law to achieve a “good.” The Bible and Jesus command us to care for the poor, orphans, and widows. However, the Christian command to care for the unfortunate doesn’t mean we should violate the law in doing so. Supporting, enabling, and encouraging illegal immigration. thus, is also, a violation of God’s Holy Writ. Those wanting to emigrate or escape to another country should obey the immigration laws of that country. Obeying the law usually will cause delays and frustrations, these confer no right to violate the law by illegally crossing borders without leave.

The answer to our problem in the US is to reverse the legal circumstances that encourage illegal immigration. The laws should be changed to make immigration easier, faster, and cheaper. It can cost tens of thousands of dollars to legally enter America and take decades to complete the process. It is so much easier and cheaper to simply cross the border, obey the laws once here. And it’s a better bet that the illegal will not be arrested and deported. If I had had the misfortune of having been born elsewhere, I would very definitely break the law by crashing the nearest border. Unless and until it is more costly in treasure and strife to violate the law, illegal immigrants will continue to come.

All we have to do now is distill all of that to a bumper sticker or Facebook poster.

Mike Devx

Indigo Red, you began with:
The argument against the poster is not an easy one to make in a few bumper sticker bullet points. Besides, the Left won’t listen anyway.

“Jesus never forced anyone”, is a rather pithy bumper sticker.

Also, you’re not trying to convince the Left. The Left definitely is not worth your time; just as you will never convince them, they will never convince you. That’s not the point. You’re rebutting them to convince the unconvinced, wavering, not-very-alert Middle.

Caped Crusader

Mike there’s room on that bumper sticker for this:

“Jesus never forced anyone”, but liberals always do

Charles Martel

This “Christian Amber Alert” is hilarious. It is so patently written by somebody who knows little to nothing about Christianity except for whatever parodies he has learned via NPR, the NYT, or HuffPo. No informed Christian would be taken in by it. It is aimed at low-info DemProgs and established members of the anti-Christian choir. It gives them that needed feeling of snarky superiority to the gay-hating, racist, yadda, yadda people who actually believe in Jesus and know what he really said, as Jose and Indigo Red make clear.

Kathy from Kansas

They’re doing an Alinsky on us. One of Alinksy’s “Rules for Radicals” is “Make the enemy live up to his own rules.” Ad absurdum, of course. Alinsky was totally cynical about this, caring nothing for the actual objective reality of our rules (e.g., the Ten Commandments); his only objective was to frame the issues in such a way that could make us think we aren’t living up to our own rules.

Let us recall that in the book of Job, Satan’s name is “The Accuser.” And let us further recall that Alinsky dedicated his demonic little book to the devil himself.

They said the same thing about supporters of the Iraq war. That they were chickenhawks. Remember that?

JohnC

This is one of those times when trying to defend your position means you accept the premiss of the argument and have, therefore, already lost.
So, here’s my easy response that all DemProgs will understand and one that is, quite frankly, all the response such accusations warrant:

There is a whole array of bumper stickers, etc, selectively quoting aspects of Christianity in support of Leftist ideas…often displayed, I am sure, by people who are neither Christians nor have studied that religion. One I’ve seen on a large & expensive SUV around here (during the Bush administration) was “Who would Jesus bomb?”, the message obviously being that self-evidently, Jesus wouldn’t bomb *anybody*. Setting aside the point that Jesus’s absolute pacifism is not self-evident (remember the money-changers and the advice to buy a sword), one might have responded with another bumper sticker: “How much of his time would Jesus have spent working as a clerk to wealthy men so that he could afford to buy a costly chariot?”

Not a Christian myself, but I think the idea the Jesus would not have supported bombing Nazis, Taliban members, etc, is highly questionable…and if he *did* take that position, it would have been only because he believe this life is only a gateway to the eternal one that really matters…so that the sufferings inflicted by the evil here on earth will have their much more important recompense. Given that most of the people using the “a true Christian would do X” argument are far from devout believers, that line of reasoning doesn’t seem to apply to them.

Bumper stickers are just like brands. They signify belonging to a cult, org, or herd. The person using it doesn’t even have to be literate.

Robert Arvanitis

Amen. As Boss Tweed said of Thomas Nast:

Tweed reportedly said, “Stop them damned pictures. I don’t care so much what the papers say about me. My constituents don’t know how to read, but they can’t help seeing them damned pictures!”

Mike Devx

Yep. Bumper stickers are not about nuance.

Every real argument requires nuance, and that means you’re going to need a few paragraphs. So, write your paragraphs. Then ruthlessly crush it down to a single sentence expressing your main point: The Theme. Then make it pithy, memorable, and even shorter. And there you have your bumper sticker.

Sure, you’ll have lost all of the intelligence. But that’s almost the point: it’s a bumper sticker!

Mike Devx

I’ll take my own advice:

“Bumper Stickers: Short. Stupid.”

Libby

Amber Alert: Progressive atheists declaring a strict separation between church and state.

And then there’s the crime that this Obama-instigated immigration surge is exposing these young, helpless children to thanks to the necessity of coyotes and unescorted minors. That there is a war on girls AND boys.

Don’t forget to add Kendall in there. Hobby Lobby and Kendall issues are all on Facebook, so it is easy to see if your “friends” liked a FB page that said Kendall needed to be taken off her safari and dumped back in a kitchen where she belongs. Then you have a guy on hypocrisy, they attack Hobby Lobby for being war against women, while the guy likes FB pages about making war on women.

Freeze them in their social circle, so they can’t get away, then pound on em.

Libby

“Oh, I’d love to discuss this further after church. Wait – you don’t attend church? Then why are you attempting to interpret Christ’s message to believers?”

Katja

If these children were actually orphans & were actually here to avoid death in their homelands, I am sure that there would be a lot of people who would be moved to open up their hearts and homes to take care of them.

However, even as bad as things in their countries, these children are not orphans, and are being used to bring in the next wave of illegal immigrants – their parents & “guardians”. Nobody here who has arranged for these children to be in the US is concerned about the welfare of the individual children – not the parents, not the “coyotes” who brought them here, nor the US government, who encouraged them to come in the first place.

Matt_SE

Short response: “Render unto God that which is God’s. Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s.”

Remind me, where does Jesus talk about immigration policy again?
I must’ve missed that part in the Bible.

Danny Lemieux

Not to mention that an estimated 1/3 to 2/3 of all girls and women are raped by the coyotes before they get here.

The Leftist alliance will enslave humanity. But people refuse to believe, as usual, the Truth that blinds.

Those who are part of the Left, who give support or defense to the Left, are ALL guilty. They are all guilty, whether they know it or not, whether they knew about the Left’s crimes against humanity or not.

You know what the Left is like? They’re like the person taping the kitten being cooked in a microwave, and saying “but I was only doing my job and following orders”. The rest of the Left is the one that put the kitten in the microwave and blames you for being Christian and not saving it.

Christian Leftism: The belief that we should abandon virtually every doctrine and our sense of reason all for the goal of performing ineffective acts of charity at the barrel of a gun while our culture and country disappear from beneath us.

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