CHOC!! SCANDALE!! Burr rips Ellena's Apres la Mousson

Mousson is a failure on every level, and its failure is so strangely complete, so weirdly disorienting, that after I had repeatedly smelled the bottle delivered to my office — put it on colleagues, offered my arm to strangers — I came to distrust that what I was smelling was the intended perfume. Juices do go bad; formulations are faulty. I stopped at Duty Free in Charles de Gaulle to try its sample. It was identical. This leaves us with the scent.

Re: CHOC!! SCANDALE!! Burr rips Ellena's Apres la Mousson

You know how everybody makes jokes about doing spit-takes and spraying coffee everywhere when they read something on the internet? You know, "You owe me a new keyboard!" and all that?

It has now officially happened to me for real. Excuse me while I continue blotting the carpet with a towel.

lol check out the perfumistas reactions in the comments section of that review .. Mr Burr!! How dare you critique the work of the great Ellena to whom we have dedicated our blogs as shrines to his unfathomable greatness?

Re: CHOC!! SCANDALE!! Burr rips Ellena's Apres la Mousson

I've had concerns about the Jardin line from Hermes and I think Mousson may be starting to bear them out. Mediterranee and Nil were both good, but at some point, a garden is a garden is a garden no matter where you go. The same elements are involved. I don't know how long Hermes intends to pursue this theme but it seems that JCE will become increasingly more limited as time goes on.

Also, I have to wonder -- perhaps JCE's original brief for the perfume was much more original, and the creative direction is to blame for dumbing it down? I think it's worth remembering that he doesn't have total carte blanche at Hermes, the way he would under Malle.

Re: CHOC!! SCANDALE!! Burr rips Ellena's Apres la Mousson

LOL! Well, I'm gratified to see it reviewed realistically, even though I like the scent much more than Burr does. I think everybody gets the same thing - a green aquatic. The fact that Ellena did it without Calone (wow!) buys my respect, but this is not a scent that requires restraint when I pass near the bottle. It's just a bit depressing. I feel like my mood needs to lift the scent and not vice versa. I think it's incredibly artistic, but I have laid this bottle back down so many times after picking it up, that it has to be some kind of personal record. It would have been malpractice for Burr to recommend this scent as suitable for general consumption. And you have that from Jean-Claude's second-string fanboy (brown at one end, but not hardened at the other).

OTOH, my wife simply loves it. She also rushes home from work every day to watch the Japanese dub of that beautiful and depressing Korean drama, Winter Sonata. Hmmmm.

Marketing!

PS Lynnaea - great thoughts. If they stay with the jardin thing, the next one needs to kick for most people. Maybe a ["zen"] rock garden by an old wooden monastery, an Alpine garden, or a New Mexico desert garden, billowing with sagebrush. Otherwise, new theme.

Re: CHOC!! SCANDALE!! Burr rips Ellena's Apres la Mousson

I think "jardin" can be anything leaning toward the botanical side...and I have always wondered if this was Hermes' response to the Guerlain Aqua Allegoria line. At least AA seems to be perfectly positioned as a fleeting, consumable, not too expensive and fun fragrance line.

Re: CHOC!! SCANDALE!! Burr rips Ellena's Apres la Mousson

Originally Posted by Asha

I think "jardin" can be anything leaning toward the botanical side...and I have always wondered if this was Hermes' response to the Guerlain Aqua Allegoria line. At least AA seems to be perfectly positioned as a[bold] fleeting[/bold], consumable, not too expensive and fun fragrance line.

This has been my problem with Ellena's creations from the outset. NO LONGEVITY.

As for Mousson, my experience with it was very limited, a spray on to a card and a dot on the wrist, but there just seemed to be something in there redolent of plastic, like the inside of a dry-cleaning bag, and not in a fun, CdG way. So, my response was much the same as Burr's, i.e., "WTF?"

I was actually a bit surprised to read that Burr dislikes Mousson as much as he does, because usually he and I march in exact opposite directions. He likes "pretty" much, much more than I do. And he likes powdery notes, seems to find them comforting, whereas if I smell anything even remotely approaching the smell of baby powder in anything I immediately run for the exit, which completely ruined me for "l'Eau d'Hiver", a scent that Burr seems to view as some kind of pinnacle of western civilization.

Re: CHOC!! SCANDALE!! Burr rips Ellena's Apres la Mousson

There's appreciating somebody's work and then there's blind devotion. Mousson frankly just isn't very nice.

I tried it at the Hermes store in London and was disappointed by its soggy vegetal notes. If I wanted to wear wet cabbage I would.

LOL! Un Jardin de la Choucroute

Originally Posted by HDS1963

I'm surprised some people think Un Jardin Sur Le Nil doesn't last - I find the very opposite.

It has to be a skin thing. Nil is moderately long-lived on my wife, and lasts forever on clothes, but dies on my skin. I bought it based on what survived on the box when my sample broke in transit. Meditérranée sticks to me like glue, and leaves me in a spice garden, as advertised, all day long.

With Mousson, I have problems keeping it at an interesting level - where the spices peek out of the soggy green weeds. I may have to try it on clothing.

Mousson took a while for me to "spot" the base scent, but now that I do, it simply won't come off. It just follows me around like a wet cat wanting inside. I want to give it a nice hissy bath, knead in the strawberry/vanilla shampoo, and rub her dry until she purrs and struts like a princess. How's my little Angel? Mmmmmah!

Re: CHOC!! SCANDALE!! Burr rips Ellena's Apres la Mousson

I should be satisfied with Burr’s assessment as, for a change, it is near my own - somewhere between offensive and boring. One star, as defined by Burr, means ‘inoffensive’. That’s not so bad, is it? It’s Turin-Sanchez who have one star as ‘awful’ in their book. So, why grumble about another Burr review?

1. Does some rudimentary knowledge of what a gas chromatograph can disclose (or not) enable the journalist Burr to interpret perfumes, and perfumers’ intentions any better than before? I think bluevelvet (The Moment, comments 07/27) addressed this quite well: “to dissect the fragrance the way you [Burr] do, as if you can “prove” that the juice isn’t well done, just misses the point entirely. Perfume making is not to be dissected like this. If you don’t like it, you don’t like it, leave it at that. Otherwise this reads like someone with his knickers in a twist or someone who considers his subjective opinion as being more informed than anyone else...”

2. In 2004 Chandler Burr received an invitation from Hermès to accompany a special team of theirs, and observe and comment ‘ the making of Un Jardin sur le Nil’. He did that extensively, and also pursued the further development ending in 2006(!). Not only was there a prominent magazine article about the whole process, Burr also devoted half a book to this perfume and its makers. Title of the book: The Perfect Scent. ‘Much Ado about Nothing’ would have been a lesser overstatement I thought while forcing myself through it. Not only Ellena himself, his business outside Hermes’ and that of Ellena’s talented perfumer-daughter (Rose Poivrée*****, Sel de Vetiver***** ) were elevated to a stage normally not accessible by mortals. (The Guide's comment on this is recommended).
And now this?? People often talk of jealousy in and around the world of perfumes. Could it perhaps be that someone was disappointed not having been invited to also come to India? Whatever the answer might be - I think I know this journalist well enough to assume that we would be reading quite a different story had CB been in the boat. I don't expect him to be totally impartial here. One way or the other, there are better sources for reviews with more credibility.

Re: CHOC!! SCANDALE!! Burr rips Ellena's Apres la Mousson

^^

1. Often snobs here on Basenotes snicker at 'low grade ingredients' or 'common ingredients' in some scent, and derive enough reason from that to critisize a creation. Burr essentially does the same by using a gas chromatographer as a *tool* to get some knowledge on the ingrediënts (real molecules, ingredients, not the substitute 'notes' or 'accords' as we here on Basenotes like to base our knowledge of ingredients in a certain fragrance on). Perfumes are a collection of molecules that interact with human smell receptors. It might be a form of art, but in the end it's just biochemistry.

2. That's just shameless Burr bashing, again. Give the *critic* a break, instead of insinuating these things. It's only dragging you down to the same level as you accuse Burr of.

Re: CHOC!! SCANDALE!! Burr rips Ellena's Apres la Mousson

I haven't been too impressed by the Hermès "Jardin" line of fragrances, at least not enough to buy any of them yet. Not much longevity, and nothing terribly exciting. I would be more likely to buy Diptyque Jardin Clos, even though the lilac and hyacinth makes it a different, more feminine creature altogether. So that's not really a glowing endorsement!

Re: CHOC!! SCANDALE!! Burr rips Ellena's Apres la Mousson

"Meh" That's all I have to say. I tried it, I did not care for it. The price was not a factor, I just didn't care for it on my skin.
With so many other beautiful fragrances out there to be enjoyed, why waste my time on one that doesn't work for me?
I'm not "into" drama or critic bashing. I'm "into" beautiful fragrances.
Next

We cannot live only for ourselves. A thousand fibers connect us with our fellow men. ~Herman Melville

Re: CHOC!! SCANDALE!! Burr rips Ellena's Apres la Mousson

A spicy, green, damp, citrussy eau that evokes the scent of ginger lemonade, with the tart, peppery smell of lime. It describes the scent of plants, cool spices, longose blossom and green vetiver.

top notes = Sweet Lime, Ginger and Green Notes

heart notes = Coriander, Pepper, Cardamom seed and Aquatic Notes

base notes = Vetiver, Longose blossom

I think it’s reasonable to assume that the majority of NYT readers would have hoped from their perfume critic whether or not this fragrance actually fulfills those promises, and what its strengths and weaknesses may be. Burr does not bother to answer such plain questions. Instead he discusses the ‘obvious’ () intent of M. Ellena to take a new historic route with Calone which naturally ‘failed’ as this chemical was not even used. God knows who planted the Calone idea into Burrs head. Two thirds of the column deal with that. The final disappointment is totally self self-produced, and has little to do with Ellena and Hermes. Not only Burr seems to be baffled, some of his readers must have been baffled too, including this one - if for very different reasons.

I don’t feel ashamed to sometimes disagree with CB on major points. Expressing my thoughts freely is part of my existence. Burr derives income from addressing the public writing about perfumes, and as an entertainer at dinner parties. Some of his statements are so bizarre that I get the impression he made them just to provoke a discussion. It often suffices to simply quote core sentences from his reviews of truly masculine fragrances to unmask his lack of insight. I don't think he spends much thought on how painful some of his statements could be for guys who happen to love whatever he enjoys bashing beyond reason. Girls and boys who are into things like D&G Light Blue and Clinique Happy fare a lot better with him - he just loves pretty darling perfumes which, with due respect, he himself should have grown out of for a while.

Re: CHOC!! SCANDALE!! Burr rips Ellena's Apres la Mousson

Originally Posted by lynnaea

Thank you! I always did like hanging out with the boys.... I'd love a drink -- Gin and tonic with a twist, please...

You know, I've been thinking we should really do a thread where we talk about What Women Want, in other words, we should ask female readers and contributors what they like their men to smell like. I think it would be a really interesting conversation.

Re: CHOC!! SCANDALE!! Burr rips Ellena's Apres la Mousson

Originally Posted by narcus

I should be satisfied with Burr’s assessment as, for a change, it is near my own - somewhere between offensive and boring. One star, as defined by Burr, means ‘inoffensive’. That’s not so bad, is it? It’s Turin-Sanchez who have one star as ‘awful’ in their book. So, why grumble about another Burr review?

1. Does some rudimentary knowledge of what a gas chromatograph can disclose (or not) enable the journalist Burr to interpret perfumes, and perfumers’ intentions any better than before? I think bluevelvet (The Moment, comments 07/27) addressed this quite well: “to dissect the fragrance the way you [Burr] do, as if you can “prove” that the juice isn’t well done, just misses the point entirely. Perfume making is not to be dissected like this. If you don’t like it, you don’t like it, leave it at that. Otherwise this reads like someone with his knickers in a twist or someone who considers his subjective opinion as being more informed than anyone else...”

Actually, you're right. Inoffensive isn't bad.

And GC - it's like analyzing an artist's paints. Interesting to some of us, particularly the geeks and the people who are interested in the physical aspects of perfumery (perhaps the DIY crowd). But to most, it should be a non-issue. Personally, I trust the local noses far more than I would a machine, in telling me about the beauty of a perfume, or the artistry of the perfumer. If somebody with over 2000 posts and 500 reviews says it's good and can explain why, I don't really give a damn what's in it. However, my inner chem geek is always interested in that data. Why? No good reason. Molecules are just cool. In this case, the fact that he got to a point in fragrance space by a different path up the mountain is interesting in the same way that climbers taking a new route is interesting. Was it a harder or "better" climb? Not my call. I trust other climbers/perfumers to have the most enlightening comments on the technical aspects of that.

Re: CHOC!! SCANDALE!! Burr rips Ellena's Apres la Mousson

Originally Posted by narcus

Burr derives income from addressing the public writing about perfumes, and as an entertainer at dinner parties. Some of his statements are so bizarre that I get the impression he made them just to provoke a discussion.

I think this review was more an attempt to provoke controversy than an attempt to give an informative review, and I say that as someone who doesn't really like Un Jardin Après la Mousson. Burr is obviously relishing an opportunity to pull down a master perfumer, maybe because of hidden conflicts with Ellena, or maybe just out of a juvenile attempt to appear superior in some way. It doesn't really matter. Critics do not get paid to inform people; they get paid to direct peoples' eyeballs to their employers' advertisements. I went to his column at the New York Times website to read the review, and managed to get roped into Elizabeth Hurley's Estée Lauder Sensuous advertisement. So Burr is probably accomplishing that goal admirably. He's basically the perfumery equivalent of Ann Coulter without the mini-skirt.

Originally Posted by narcus

I don't think [Burr] spends much thought on how painful some of his statements could be for guys who happen to love whatever he enjoys bashing beyond reason.

It's always better to insulate yourself from this aspect. I've had plenty of favorite fragrances bashed by critics, co-workers, friends, and girlfriends. Hell, I almost get hung in effigy whenever I wear Kouros. If I like the juice, everything else is just hot air.

Re: CHOC!! SCANDALE!! Burr rips Ellena's Apres la Mousson

Originally Posted by T. Rex, Esq.

Hey, does anyone know the proper pronunciation of "Hedione"? Is it "HEAD-ee-ohn" or "HEE-dee-ohn"?

Originally Posted by Night

The second one.

OMG! I never actually bothered to count the keto carbonyls. There's only one. I had just assumed it was a dione (or, as we say in the states, "DYE-own"), having two. Your correct pronunciation just tipped me off, at long last. Good Lord, even tradenames are better in French!

Re: CHOC!! SCANDALE!! Burr rips Ellena's Apres la Mousson

Thanks T. Rex for posting this - I just returned from vacation and missed Burr's review. I usually post many of the Chandler Burr reviews that he posts on the NYT site and although this might lead many of you to believe that I agree with everything Burr writes, this is not the case.

Funny coincidence: I took Burr's book, 'The Perfect Scent' with me on my vacation. I thoroughly enjoyed reading it (I had already read the New Yorker article that Burr wrote about Hermes, JC Ellena and UJSLN). The book was extremely well written and I got the sense that Burr had really found his best style of writing with it. In addition, I printed out all of the Deleted Scenes that Grant posted here on Basenotes and read them at the end of the book. Fascinating tidbits.

After I read the book, I felt a need to smell Un Jardin sur Le Nil (I no longer own a bottle) and this got me thinking about the newest Apres la Mousson - which I was extremely disappointed in. I actually thought to myself...'Maybe I judged it too quickly? Maybe I should smell it again?'

I didn't bring any ALM with me, on my vacation - but a couple days ago, walking in a crowded retail shopping section in Copenhagen (Denmark) I spotted a Hermes boutique. I always enjoy visiting Hermes' boutiques in person - you always end up seeing some other fragrance you never see at department stores. This particular store had the 350 ml bottles (huge!) of the Jardin scents...I had only ever seen pictures of them and they're quite spectacular (the scents inside are the same as the regular bottles). Then I noticed that they had a bottle of ALM, so I doused my arm in it and walked around all day sniffing myself.