Monday, February 28, 2011

You know you have little faith in your club's management when you hope that the trade deadline passes with no movement, not because you think your club should stand pat but because you know that they are likely to screw things up.

And Steve Tambellini, as always, did not disappoint today. With the frenzy of the past few weeks today was quiet, so quiet indeed that it was the Oilers who made the biggest splash, moving Dustin Penner to LA for a first, Colton Teubert and a third round pick that could become a second rounder if the Kings win the Cup.

The Kings are a middling shot to do so. They have a good club, as good as anyone in the West outside of Vancouver and Detroit, and once the playoffs get rolling as we all know anything can happen. The Kings are deep and they are better today than they were yesterday. And they did this without giving up a player on their roster or any of their best prospects.

If that last statement rings a bell it should. Since they shipped Pronger out of town the Oilers have always ended up with plenty of assets when they make their moves. The problem is they seem to have an unerring ability to zero in on the other club's second or third best men.

Now this could be one of two things. The Oilers either ask for the guys they get which shows that they have poor judgement when it comes to talent evaluation or they can't close the deal, blinking when their trade partners say no to their requests.

Chris Pronger brought in Lupul instead of Getzlaf, Perry or Penner. Ryan Smyth brought in Robert Nilsson and Ryan O'Marra. And now Dustin Penner has brought in a guy who is the Kings' fourth or fifth defensive prospect, a guy who had been a healthy scratch in the AHL this season, something which apparently Tambellini was unaware of.

If this is the case then Tambellini and his boss should be fired. Of course they should have been fired for signing Khabibulin, for the Smyth trade, for five years out of the playoffs. Michael Farber remarked today that Tambellini has support from the fans. When the local media almost uniformly fails to criticize this club's management despite what they have done to this franchise than there is no wonder why.

Dustin Penner was an interesting player. Even these past two years when he really began to come into his own he always left many fans wanting for more. He looked disinterested at times and he was not the physical force you hoped for. He was also a guy who scored thirty goals last year, probably was good for close to that this year. He was a guy who kept lousy linemates afloat. He also seemed like a bright guy and he certainly had a good sense of humour which counts for points in my book. And apparently he treated Joey Moss like gold, which speaks to his character as well. He was a good NHL player, one of few on this Edmonton club. And now he is gone, following a long long list of good NHL players who have been sent packing in the last five years, mostly for little or no return.

Pronger was one of the best players in the league and he did bring in picks and Laddy Smid but the only NHL player he brought back was Lupul. Lupul wasn't good enough to bring in Pitkanen so Jason Smith had to go with him. Pitkanen was dumped for Cole who was turned into O'Sullivan who is pretty well done. They did manage to get Vandermeer for O'Sullivan but he will be UFA this summer.

Peca, Samsonov, Spacek, Dvorak all left as UFAs. So did Dwayne Roloson and Petr Sykora and Marty Reasoner. And Jan Hejda. Patrick Thoresen was lost on waivers. Ryan Smyth brought back Robert Nilsson who was bought out and Ryan O'Marra who toils in the AHL four years later. Grebeshkov went for a pick. Glencross for nothing. Brodziak for two later round picks. Pisani left as a UFA, not good enough for the Oilers, good enough to play on the defending Cup champions.

And the guys sent out for a decent return show an organization without direction. Two youngsters, Stoll and Greene, were sent out for a quality veteran who was then moved out for a younger player less than two years later. Decent return in both cases but just a mess that reveals a lack of judgement with management. You don't move two good building blocks for Visnovsky and move Pitkanen for Cole and sign Khabibulin if you think you are rebuilding. You do this if you think you are a contender. And yet shortly after the Oilers realize they are rebuilding?

Very poor.

A couple of weeks ago I opined that the Oilers should sign both Penner and Hemsky and based on his comments today I think they might have gotten an extension from Penner. If they could not sign him then I was okay with a move but they needed to get an NHL ready player back, which means they would have had to move him at the draft.

And this is the biggest disappointment of course. Once again, as they have for over two decades, the Oilers moved out a good player for less than full value. A pick that at best will be in the high teens, unless the Kings absolutely collapse. A prospect who has had injury issues, may have an attitude problem (multiple sources spoke to him sulking over not making the Kings) and who is projected as maybe being a second pairing guy at best.

Very poor.

A team that had four top six wingers now only has three. Paajarvi will move up the depth chart and he will probably be a good one but it means that someone (Jones?) will move up the depth chart into his spot and it means that the club is worse today than it was yesterday and it means that next season they will be angling for the lottery again. If they weren't then they would have kept Penner. A bad season and they might have moved him at the deadline, probably for not much less than they got today. Now its looking like this is the plan. Its the Nordiques all over again with the media on board for the ride.

So it will be six years out then and then it will be Whitney and Gilbert's turn to go and there wil be fans who say good riddance and those fans, the same who are asking why Hemsky wasn't also traded today for picks, will get what they deserve.

58 comments:

well I will disagree with the assessment that this was not sunshine and lolly pops. I was glad to see Belle leave... dude was another marshmallow. I like draft picks and prospects. They don't cost jack and for teams at the draft a late pick can be valuable when a deal needs to be made. I am liking the direction remember when were a cap team... it was sad times. Who knows what goes on a draft this year.... I see that an opportunity to package up a prospect and pick to get a player from a team who is hard up against the cap. ala Chicago who was fleeced by Atlanta.

Some of my favourite defences of this deal so far from around the web:

-It was a good trade because the Oilers got back three first rounders, the same as what they paid to get him

-Penner was expendable because there are only so many spots to go around in the Top 6 and PRV belongs in the mix. Those players will be able to replace Penner's production easily.

-Tuborg is a good fit because he will fill a hole on the team (bottom pairing defensemen being so hard to come by, after all).

-Because Tuborg is close in age to the other young guns, they'll have the opportunity to develop chemistry together, just like the Boys on the Bus! (bonus points for playing in Regina with Eberle)

-Penner wasn't re-signing in Edmonton anyway (despite not even being asked)

Just some real good drugs going around out there.--------

Meanwhile, for fans who actually want to watch games that mean something, it's another kick in the teeth. If I wanted to watch teenagers develop, I'd watch junior or lurk in the bushes outside my local high school.

Hey, maybe you could turn this into an EPL blog next year. I'm sure Tyler would be into it.

When you consider the Fisher deal and the Boyes deal, Tambi kicked ass.

The market has spoken and Tambi did comparatively well.

They only had two options at the start of this year, either quick rebuild or full rebuild.

Both come with risks. Different ones. I don't model trading algos so I'd hate to say which way is riskier given the context. Instinctively I think the edge would go to full as the safer course. Of course neither path is a guarantee, no matter who is at the helm.

I think, after the preceding years of grief, we all wanted quick rebuild. I think that's an emotion based desire though, and hey a justifiable one given the history.

But I think they and Katz get the right to choose the path. And I think given the fact they've chosen the lower risk path, today was a day that maxed what was available to get down that road.

You nailed it. All. I think that of the 2 Hemsky's skill set is most closely replicated by a smurf or two. Penner is unique and Tambo got screwed with a tier 2 return. The window, as it's been called, needs to include some older players and Hemsky/Penner would still be useful pieces in a few years if re-signed. Why not man up and extend them both now. You can always trade a signed player especially if the contract is good.

Tambo is a shit GM.

At the draft we could use the pick in a package to attract a good forward with size and scoring ability. Who should we target? Dustin Penner?

spOILer: I think you're right about them playing it safe. They saw the Pittsburgh model of five straight top 5 picks and figure "we can beat that." It's not as if their jobs are on the line or anything.

Their next move should be to trade Hesmky. He'll be in decline by the time this team is positioned to make a run, so best parlay that into an asset now. Trade him for some kid that's projected to be the poor man's Rem Murray or something.

Oilers are like those 2nd and 3rd division(using generic terms here) soccer teams, who are basically in business to provide their meagre fanbases with cheap entertainment, while developing young future stars who are then sold onto the bigger and infinitely richer 1st division teams.

Before the latest players strike this was certainly the case. After the latest boneheaded trade this has been re-affirmed as still being the case.

Of course no one can prove Hall+Eberle etc will be sold when ready for a big NHL city, but cheap talk of being 4-6 years away from contention aside from the Oilers, no one can prove otherwise, and when looking back at the past 23 or so years, the writing appears on the wall.

hunter - well that's the thing eh? the lockout was supposed to allow the Oilers to keep their good players and here we are years later, the good players traded for futures not because the team cannot afford them but because management has run the club into the ground. its depressing

spOILer - maybe that was the best they could have gotten but we don't know that, Burke got probably a better return for Kaberle who is a UFA this summer

The thing is, and you know this of course, I have no faith in these guys. I think that this is a reasonable way to feel based on what they have done. So while your point is a valid one and maybe this all ends up alright in the end I would guess not. Its a bit crushing to be honest.

hunter: good analogy, but there's nothing cheap or entertaining about the Oilers. Also, if they were a second or third division club, there'd be genuine incentive to improve to avoid dropping even further down into obscurity.

As it is, these fuckers can run this thing into the ditch, through the slough and towards a cliff and get rewarded for it. It's just crazy.

What you say is true. As bad as the Flames will be, they are still gleeful in their trashing of the Oilers' braintrust, and there is nothing I can say to them that will stop it. Tough time to be a fan.

I've only followed the Oilers from 1999, so after 7 years of futility and the Dallas Stars, 2006 was a breath of fresh air. I can honestly say that yesterday was the worst day I've ever had as a fan of this team.

To trade a legitimate, proven, 1st line player, with size and the ability to drive the play in the right direction, and accept the other team's 6th or 7th best defensive prospect (not even prospect in general) is just...there are no words.

You're dead on BD, it's heartbreaking watching good players get moved for 50 cents on the dollar now out of incompetence and stupidity, after watching the same thing happen for so long previously because of lack of money. So much for the CBA and Katz stopping the bleeding, and allowing the Oilers to actually keep their good players.

I'm as close to being done with this bunch of losers as I've ever been. I suppose now I'll get more sleep and have more free time whenever this feeder team takes to the ice.

What makes it so depressing is that Tambellini and Lowe can continue to make decisions that can further run this team into the ground. I'm not even dreading Hemsky being traded anymore, it's already happened as far as I'm concerned. I'm not one to wish ill on someone, but if a bus were to veer off course and pulp Toonces as he sat fucking up the Oilers I'd be hard pressed to suppress glee.

All I can do is look enviously at what Yzerman is doing in Tampa. Why the fuck couldn't we have grabbed him instead of Toonces. Disgusted; in a word that's all I feel when about the Oilers organization right now, disgusted.

However, I see nothing yesterday that adds or detracts from having any faith in them.

Tambi got the best deal for any F offered. There are differences between the Kaberle and the Penner situation, but keep in mind Colborne is as much a project as Teubert. And certainly will never be called truculent.

Oil had more LWers than any other position and a shortage of mean physical Dmen who can actually skate. Isn't balance one of the things we have been talking about?

Oil are in a full rebuild coming to a draft that is low on top end talent but deep otherwise, and got another pick, which is exactly the right play in such a draft--quality isn't there in the top 5, but is there for later picks (in comparison to other drafts).

And yes now we're imbalanced when it comes to actual NHL players, but in the midst of a rebuild is the only time that is okay.

There'a alot of things these guys have done which questions placing any trust in them, but I'm not sure that playing the full rebuild is one of those things.

Most dissenters seem to be most pissed that the full rebuild mode delays the day of reckoning. What kind of criticism of yesterday is that?

Oil had more LWers than any other position and a shortage of mean physical Dmen who can actually skate. Isn't balance one of the things we have been talking about?

Only the Oilers didn't get a physical d-man who can actually skate. For one, Teubert isn't a player, he's a prospect, and a struggling prospect at that.

2nd, he's projected as a 4th or 5th defenceman, and is clearly a project; nowhere near an impact prospect.

3rd, one of Teubert's weaknesses is his skating, he's often cited as being slow.

Most dissenters seem to be most pissed that the full rebuild mode delays the day of reckoning. What kind of criticism of yesterday is that?

I think you're off there, most dissenters were upset not that the rebuild was extended, but that it was extended for no good reason. If the return had been Voynov or Forbort, or hell even Martinez over Teubert, you could reasonably argue that it would have been worth it.

This seems to be a trade for the sake of making a trade, and the return was subpar at best.

This is perfect. You completely nailed it Pat. I have many friends that are swallowing the koolaid and buying this bullshit. I will be showing them this post because it sums everything up so perfectly. This is absolutely your most depressing post yet (one that focusses on the team I mean).

spOILer - I really can't make a better argument than uni - I think most people who don't like the trade are more upset with the return than anything. If Hemsky had been moved for Schenn, for example, I would have been displeased to lose Hemsky but I would have been happy with the return.

And again I know we do not know what was out there but pulling the trigger on a trade when you don't have to make the trade is, well, poor management. Penner wasn't going anywhere.

Use him to move up in the draft in June for crying out loud.

We have Kings' fans clapping their hands because in their estimation this kid wasn't even in their top ten prospects. And we have Tambo himself surprised that the kid was a healthy scratch this year.

That does not speak well to management.

As always I hope I am wrong but I remember four years ago some commenter saying that he looked forward to the day that Dellow and Vic and myself would eat crow - can't remember if that was the Smyth trade or the Souray signing or the Penner offersheet that time.

BD - This is a fabulous summation. I'm going to post a link to your article over at ON, where a stunning number of fools actually think this was a decent move. Between your post and the comments, every possible defence of this "trade" has been sewered.

You know who I really feel sorry for? Every season ticket holder who's been relegated to watching "EDLH" (Exciting Development League Hockey" and paying top dollar to do so.

Wow, lots of people turning their ankles jumping off the bandwagon here.

Hey, guys. It's very simple. You have a choice. Stop cheering for the Oilers. Stop buying tickets. Stop buying the merch.

But please, sweet-bearded-Jesus-pretty-please, stop pretending you know anything about what goes on with a trade or the inner workings of a hockey team.

In the past 24 hours, there seems to have been a proliferation of Colten Teubert experts, as well as people who can tell the difference between a "strong" draft and a "weak" draft.

I have no idea what Colten Teubert is like as a player. I hope he will be a good one.

I have no idea what the NHL draft will be like this year, in terms of talent, but I do know that the more picks you have, the better.

I have no idea if Dustin Penner would have re-signed with Edmonton, but I do know that Curtis Joseph said he wanted to stay in Edmonton but bolted at about 12:01 p.m. on July 1st of whatever year he went to TO.

You're all welcome to naysay, of course. That's your right. But please try to base it on some sort of reasonably-arrived-at argument.

This shaking your fist at the Sky Gods and cursing K-Lowe and Tambo - just-because - is becoming oh-so-tiresome.

We know from the past that picks work far better than players at moving up at the draft. Teams don't know what is going to happen FA Day and are usually conservative along player deal lines on draft day. Also Penner has less value to the higher pick teams as they usually aren't contenders

Uni,

Sorry, but it is pretty evident from all my posts that I am talking about organizational depth not NHL team depth, so if you want to throw that straw man, up there, go ahead, but it ain't convincing anyone who can read.

I also keep hearing good things about Teubert from scouts, coaches, etc. So I'm sure you'll be okay if I disagree with you on Teubert himself. He's a good prospect.

And when it comes to the value of the trade, every expert so far has been impressed with the return, and it was quite clearly the best return for any F this year. That was the going market.

The Oilers obviously feel their organizational strength isn't good enough for a quick rebuild so they did what they could to add to the full rebuild process. D has consistently been mentioned by management as a weak area, and D depth was helped yesterday.

Man, this is some depressing shit. I strongly suspect Motivated Penner will show up a lot more when he's playing games with a purpose, and this'll look really bad in a year. Who knows though, and I don't know shit about Teubert. But what reason is there for optimism anymore?

This is all reminding me of the era between the Messier trade and the win over Dallas, in the early/mid-90s. Look at those awful teams, and you suddenly remember positive things. Damphousse (Visnovsky) played here! Ciger (Penner) looked good that one year! Oliver (Cogliano)'s streak! And so forth. But you don't really remember all that much because the team was so fucking depressing, and there was this endless revolving door of players, good bad and indifferent. And anyone good left soon anyway.

Plus we were being held hostage by ownership: going to Houston! Michael Largue! Les Alexander! Now it's the monorail and a bunch of other shit, but it feels the same.

I really don't care about this team anymore, at all. Still read this blog, and LT and MC, because I really enjoy them, and because I've been communicating with a few of these commenter/blogger guys online for almost a decade, and it feels like I know them. But the organization as a whole is so incompetent and unlikeable that I can't much care what happens. Other teams are more fun, and there's much more to life anyway than watching pro sports, I guess. A fun thing from my youth is gone, and that's sad, but there are tons of great old movies out there to be watched. Plus food, music, books, sex, art, sleep, and on and on...

We got rid of a guy who shows up every fifth game and uses his size about half that often. The kids need leaders in the room with a lot more intensity than Dustin Penner. Maybe Tambellini see's that and that's why Penner is gone and Hemsky remains. Let Stu do his thing this summer at the draft, sign a couple actual NHLers to shore up the roster, and pretty soon we will all have forgotten what it was like to say "fuck, Penner" 10 times a game.

We're in for the long haul rebuild now. And when Katz can still fill the building and get decent TV ratings, why whouldn't he?

By committing to the 'full rebuild' (TM) Katz should be able to continue with similar expenses (i.e. several million below the cap) and similar revenues. Those hockey related revenues are amongst the highest in the league. So you can't fault him, really. It's a sound business decision. Were I in his shoes I'd do exactly the same thing.

How long will the Oilers be able to sell stupid to people who already have plenty of it? I don't know, but I suspect two or three more years. This just a guess based on LF's quotes from fandom above. We'll see.

It's the only question left to be answered. And it's a multi-million dollar question.

Yes, I'm aware that I'm probably stretching things a tad by calling someone a troll on his own blog site, but ON linked to your site, so I figured I was an invited guest. Sorry I spilled wine on the carpet.

2006? Lightning in a jar. Sort of like the Flames in 2004. Right mix at the right time. But really, it was nothing more than that. It wasn't like they had take three years to build up to something - they signed Pronger and Peca and found a few key veterans, all in a nine-month stretch and caught fire. There was no rebuilding program or anything like that. It was a one-off.

Then Pronger bolted and, yeah, we've been wandering around in the wilderness ever since. It hasn't been a lot of fun.

Like I say - it's your site ... your bridge from which you're welcome to gripe.

But c'mon. We've all been around the wilderness long enough to know that if there was a better deal for Penner out there than the one that transpired yesterday, it would have happened.

The market doth spake.

As for next year, well ... there's a draft, a free agent season and a training camp between now and then - not too mention 20 or so games.

Don't know about you, but I'm going to let this season end before I start worrying about the next one...

Zarf - no worries as long as you're reasonably polite, which you have been.

Still didn't answer my questions though ;)

Thanks Vic - appreciate it.

Curt - your point is well taken but he's still a 30 goal scorer in the NHL.

Would it not be better to have that guy on the roster along with Hall and MPS at LW? Pretty strong on that left side.

I said this at LT's and I will say it agin here. Basically its the same divide on every move that the club makes. There are those who believe that things will get better and they give Tambo the benefit of the doubt. (And believe it or not I had that attitude with Lowe until Smyth got dealt).

And there are those who do not believe in this management team anymore.

These two sides will never meet until years down the road when a) the club is still terrible or b) they are excellent

So I guess we'll see but based on the last five years I know what side I'm on. I wish I had faith but its been shattered.

Black Dog...you should call yourself Black cloud...Dont worry man,the Mayan calender ends next year and we will all be dead and you will not have to worry about those sad sack Oilers... oh the humanity...

first time I have been to your site and want to thank you for what must not have been easy...telling it like it is on such a sad day...

but the truth shall set us free from all the crap spun from the media sycophants that curry the favour of lowebellini

I have been finding it harder and harder to go to an oiler game, which is a serious admission for an ex , season ticket holder...its getting so bad I rarely even make it thru a game on tv

10 years of not only making the many mistakes with players but then being so smug about it...the hype that seems to follow the club like a bad penny, the dishonesty with the fans, with the people who really do care...

today the gulf that stretches between what we have always celebrated about the team and want to be able to keep celebrating, and the pretense of these clowns who have run the very "idea" of the oilers into the ground just widened

I started to worry the first time I saw that oil derrick lowered to the ice and all that smoke...all you needed were some mirrors and you had the perfect calling card for this hopeless bunch

The thing that irks me so much is that ST was sooo close to getting my stamp of approval.

"Okay, two years of sucking, but there's some promise. Amateur scouting has improved, finally some good raw talent to play with Hemsky and Penner is turning into a foce these last two years. With just a few astute moves in the off season, we could be playing some meaningful games down the stretch next year!"

Then Lowe's 4-6 comment.

"Don't worry, he's just setting the bar low. I know he's not that stupid... I know we'll be banging on the playoff door sooner than that."

Now the Penner deal, and when he had so many options... I don't know, maybe I'm being dramatic, maybe MBSM will have me eating my words in... 4 years ("come on guys, patience, it's a re-build!")? But based on historical data, I'm not holding my breath.

And how do you get absolutely nothing for the other liquid assets. Everyone seems to love picks, how come he didn't turn any of Jones, Frasier, Foster or Vandermeer into some throws of the dice? Like you mentioned, nothing makes any sense, no rhyme or reason.

I thought I would sleep on it and feel better. I did not until reading this post and its comments.

Having to listen to, and read the likes of:

"...they cleared the cap space!"

has made my fingernails bleed. My favourite is when they say, "finally we got rid of that bum and his mammoth contract," and then follow that up 5 minutes later with, "Tambellini had to make a deal now to get the most value, while he's still got term!"

Ya, you're right. If the Oilers kept Penner a part of a team with EXPLOSIVE offensive potential next year, nothing good could come of that. The" drinkers" think rolling the dice at the draft is so exciting... I'd rather throw some off-season parts at what we have (had) and roll the dice at actually hockey games. If Hall and Eberle have sophomore slumps and/or the spare parts don't fit, then so what? You're either scrapping for playoff spot like you were in 2006 or you're in the exact same situation you are now... and that's assuming there was NO chance of resigning him.

Apologies for the baseball comparison, but look at how AA (Blue Jays GM) handle Bautista. I'm sure he was presented countless offers for him last season, probably hundreds of half-assed prospects he could have shoved into his "re-building" system. But he didn't see the deal he wanted so he said "no thanks." Not only did Bautista re-sign with Toronto but AA sent a message to all the GMs going forward, "you want my guy for your championship drive, you'll give me the prospect I want. Period."

So, by not just "taking the best offer on the table," AA immediately increases the "market value" when it comes time to deal the likes of Hill, Lind, Morrow, etc for futures (the guys who are actually more valuable... kinda like Hall, and Eberle). God I wish AA was calling the shots for the Oilers... and I'm not even a Jays fan.

OK, putting the bottle and the computer down. Maybe one more 'sleep on it' will make me feel better. I can't remember the last time I was so angry after an Oilers win?

Sorry, I lied, opened another bottle and I continue to hold BD's blog captive for my own therapy.

I don't mean to hammer on Zarf here but one of his comments hit home to me:

"I have no idea if Dustin Penner would have re-signed with Edmonton, but I do know that Curtis Joseph said he wanted to stay in Edmonton but bolted at about 12:01 p.m. on July 1st of whatever year he went to TO."

First of all, there was almost an entire calendar year to find out if Penner would re-sign. But let's put aside that argument and talk about Cujo.

I know that you're just using him as an example of a player not keeping his word but, you're also implying that you would have rather seen Cujo traded. As someone who endured Game 5 in 1997 at McNichols Arena, listened to the excessive taunting, watched as grown men shamelessly reduced my little brother to tears, only to return to the same seats, surrounded by the same season ticket holders one year later for Game 7 and watch Cujo pitch a shut-out in one of the most stunning comebacks in playoff history - I resent that implication. If you had your way we wouldn't even have seen Cujo's Game 7 OT heroics in 1997. For fan of my generation those are the moments that define my passion; those are the Rod Phillips calls that used to make my hair stand on end, but now bring a tear to my eye.

That's the value that was traded away that you continue to ignore. Entertainment. That's what we spend our dollars on, that's where are passion comes from. And by trading Penner away for little more than a door-knob could negotiate for him next year, when he still had plenty Entertainment value to offer the fans it just comes across that they either don't know what they're doing or they just don't care. All this coming from a group that think their entitled to a large chunk of taxpayer money? If this were Liberia... Ok, not cool.

Sorry Zarf, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth as I clearly did, but one of your comments lead me to a sentimental moment, and sadly sentimental moments are really all the happy ones I've had with this team recently... and will have for a while, apparently.

Sorry, but it is pretty evident from all my posts that I am talking about organizational depth not NHL team depth, so if you want to throw that straw man, up there, go ahead, but it ain't convincing anyone who can read.

What straw man? You stated that the Oilers had many LWs in the organization and traded for a strong, physical, mobile defenceman. They traded an actual 1st line capable NHL LW for a prospect D, and not even one that's projected as top pairing. I merely pointed out that the organization depth need that you said they filled was not, they got a slow, projected 4-5 defenceman.

You also stated that most were upset that the rebuild was extended, and that was the reason for all the ire. I pointed out that it was not, and the crux of everyone's disappointment was the return on the trade, which should have centered around at least an impact prospect.

The points made are clear for everyone to see, and just because you call something a straw man doesn't make it so.

I hope you're right, and Teubert is turns into a 3rd or better shutdown D with legs, the new Jason Smith only faster and more skilled. From all the scouting reports though it's not a good bet. There's a chance that Teubert and a good/lucky pick with the 1st and 3rd will net similar or better in value than Penner, who has 1 more year at a reasonable cap hit, but it's a small one, and it's a bad bet to pan on. I mean I like the 20-1 odds on some horses, but it doesn't make it a good bet.

Also on the off chance this gets out of hand, I'm not trying to be a dick or flame on you here, I simply don't agree with your assessment. I usually agree with a lot of your comments, but we just diverge on opinion here.

Thanks BD. Having read my maniacal rantings this morning and discovered all the 'wounded soldiers' around my apartment, I'm convinced alcohol brings out the best in me (as sad as that may seem). I'm sure my liver wishes I was a little more apathetic.

I'll tell you one thing though, if I'm having to watch Hemsky in another team's uniform this time next year, apathy may be my only option. The liver will rejoice!

a city to a team than the roller coaster ride of those early years? I still remember standing outside the coliseum all night to get playoff tickets...the people you met in the line, the sense of being on this amazing journey

we all knew that couldn't last and we have been very patient waiting for its return, understanding it can never be quite the same

but the ultimate highs that we shared with the team were real because the organization felt real, in spite of the occasional caper by peter puck...

that is the bond that the current bunch have pissed away....so strange because I always thought kevin lowe was a part of that earlier connection with the community

but now it's all hype and sell, as if the fans were idiots...the kind of "entertainment" that is stuffed down your throat...that is what is so hard to take... as if the fans don't recognize what it really means to ship out key players like smyth and pisani and penner for door knobs as someone so aptly put it

whats worse is the fact that the mainstream media play along with it...so that lowbellini and katz get caught in the viscious circle of reading their own press clippings...

a perfect circle of self deception, a downward spiral that seems to know no bottom